# driving school rookie



## finally330i (May 17, 2004)

I'm planning on doing my first driving school at Grattan Raceway in MI. I have a 2004 330i with sport package, 6sp, 8500 mi. Is this a bad idea with my car being that it is fairly new and is my daily driver? What if anything do I really need to do to the car to minimize wear and tear? Thanks for any input.


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

finally330i said:


> I'm planning on doing my first driving school at Grattan Raceway in MI. I have a 2004 330i with sport package, 6sp, 8500 mi. Is this a bad idea with my car being that it is fairly new and is my daily driver? What if anything do I really need to do to the car to minimize wear and tear? Thanks for any input.


Why would it be a bad idea?  :drive:

I had 2600 miles on mine when I first took it to the track...  and it's also my daily driver.


----------



## shopkins (Aug 24, 2003)

Don't worry - rarely does something bad happen at these events. Are you going with the Windy City BMW chapter? If so, they are a great group of instructors and students - people play very nice out there.

Grattan is great track too - it's a lot of fun and really challenging. You are going to learn a bunch and have a great time.

Let us know if you have any questions or you can email me.
Steve


----------



## Mike48162 (Oct 17, 2003)

*Have fun and Learn!*



finally330i said:


> I'm planning on doing my first driving school at Grattan Raceway in MI. I have a 2004 330i with sport package, 6sp, 8500 mi. Is this a bad idea with my car being that it is fairly new and is my daily driver? What if anything do I really need to do to the car to minimize wear and tear? Thanks for any input.


BMW's are real sports cars and like to be driven hard. This will really help your engine and suspension settle in. Check your oil level and go. Oh and ask someone what to set your tire pressures at....particularly at wrong pressure tires can take a beating. Finally, I assume this is legal if not encouraged...be sure to ride with a more experienced driver in a stock 330! Oh and if it's this weekend (hot!) bring a cooler with lots of water...you're likely to suffer much more than your car!


----------



## finally330i (May 17, 2004)

Thanks for your encouraging words. Yes, this is Windy City BMW Club event in September. I can't wait. This is a driving school so everyone will have an instructor in their car. I've done a couple of the autocross events with this group and have had a great time. They are a nice bunch of people.

As far as the car goes, I was just wondering if it was necessary to get a different set of brake pads or special fluid, etc. If it is not absolutely necessary I will just go completely stock.

Thanks again,

Jared


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

finally330i said:


> Thanks for your encouraging words. Yes, this is Windy City BMW Club event in September. I can't wait. This is a driving school so everyone will have an instructor in their car. I've done a couple of the autocross events with this group and have had a great time. They are a nice bunch of people.
> 
> As far as the car goes, I was just wondering if it was necessary to get a different set of brake pads or special fluid, etc. If it is not absolutely necessary I will just go completely stock.
> 
> ...


For your first time I don't think it's necessary... just make sure your brake fluid is reasonably fresh. You'll have to get a tech inspection to make sure there isn't any other potential problem too...


----------



## shopkins (Aug 24, 2003)

finally330i said:


> Thanks for your encouraging words. Yes, this is Windy City BMW Club event in September. I can't wait. This is a driving school so everyone will have an instructor in their car. I've done a couple of the autocross events with this group and have had a great time. They are a nice bunch of people.
> 
> As far as the car goes, I was just wondering if it was necessary to get a different set of brake pads or special fluid, etc. If it is not absolutely necessary I will just go completely stock.
> 
> ...


For your first school the pads will probably be fine - just make sure to check them through out the day. They might be toast by the end of the day. When I first started, I used Hawk HP+ which is a decent street/track pad. It will last longer than stock pads but they also can squeel on the street.


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

doeboy said:


> Why would it be a bad idea?  :drive:
> 
> I had 2600 miles on mine when I first took it to the track...  and it's also my daily driver.


 I took the temp tag off of mine before driving to Summit. :eeps:


----------



## finally330i (May 17, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> I took the temp tag off of mine before driving to Summit. :eeps:


What is a temp tag?


----------



## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Good tires with proper pressure adjustment, fresh brake fluid, clean windshield...

HAVE FUN!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

finally330i said:


> What is a temp tag?


Temporary registration tags? :dunno:


----------



## finally330i (May 17, 2004)

*pretech*

I got my information packet in the mail yesterday. The tech check list has quite a few items on it. The club is having a pretech day at a local shop. I guess I'll find out what I need then.


----------



## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

Gosh. Brings back memories to my first event 3 years ago. Are you excited?


----------



## finally330i (May 17, 2004)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> Gosh. Brings back memories to my first event 3 years ago. Are you excited?


Hell yeah! I can't wait. I'm just a bit nervous that I'm going to "lift" to abruptly or something and spin off the track with my instructor screaming NO! NO! Noooooo! :eeps:


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

finally330i said:


> Hell yeah! I can't wait. I'm just a bit nervous that I'm going to "lift" to abruptly or something and spin off the track with my instructor screaming NO! NO! Noooooo! :eeps:


 Just go in to it knowing that you are complete and utter newb on the track and leave your ego at home. Pay attention to everything. And just don't think that you are Mario Andretti (or Dale Earnhart or Kimi Raikonen or Spoonface or whomever) when you get out there. Take it easy. Keep it smooth. Don't push the speed. Just go out willing to learn and have some fun. The rest will come naturally with practice.

And drink lots of water!


----------



## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

finally330i said:


> Hell yeah! I can't wait. I'm just a bit nervous that I'm going to "lift" to abruptly or something and spin off the track with my instructor screaming NO! NO! Noooooo! :eeps:


Save the AutoX stuff for if/when you've gotten the car crossed up, otherwise, we like to teach/practice the smooth mantra of driving around the track. Just remember, smooth is fast. :thumbup:


----------



## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

I did my first DE this past weekend (Peachtree CCA Chapter, Road Atlanta course). Took my pure stock 2004 330Ci and it performed fine. Numerous other stock cars there also (although most were m-cars). Had a great time... car and I both went faser than I thought we were capable of. Make sure you get a ride with an instructor in his car early to set the proper "expectations".
Question for the more experienced.... (I suspect this may be covered elsewhere, so feel free tp point me to the proper place).. I do want to do a little to my 330Ci to help the performance: I suspect that I may as well forget getting additional power.. any significant power additions (SC) would probably void my warranty, which I'm not ready to do. But how about suspension and such? I'm considering strut brace and better roll bars initially and a SSK for myself. I figure that I'll need new/different tires/wheels to really get use out of coil-overs so I figure to hold off on that until I need new tires. The end of the long straight at Road Atlanta is a downhill breaking zone to a 40-50mph corner (breaking from 100+ to about 45mph) and I frequently smelled boiling brake fluid. Should I replace my standard brake fluid with higher temp fluid? How about different pads?? I don't want to be swapping pads for each event (yet) so need suggestions for road/track capable pads.
Thanks!


----------



## Jim44 (Feb 28, 2004)

grayghost said:


> and I frequently smelled boiling brake fluid.


I doubt it was fluid you were smelling. More likely it was the brake pads themselves. Stock ones especially give off a distinct "odor" when used aggressively.

Now, if you plan on doing more than a couple of DE a year, yes I would suggest changing fluid to ATE SuperBlue/TYP200 (same fluid, different color) or at a minimum having the stock fluid changed every year. I don't have a rec for a good street/track pad, but seeing as you are a novice I would suggest that the stock pads will suffice for a while yet. As you get to be more advanced, the only way to go IMO is with a track pad and swap before/after every event (I did this on the M3 for 2+ years, easy, took less than 30 minutes total).

While not a performance upgrade, I do like SSK as they improve the "feel" of the car, especially on E36s (not too familiar with E46s).

All the other stuff can wait, IMO. You've only done one event, you still have a whole lot of "driving" to learn.

Glad you enjoyed it! I've only driven RA once, at Ofest 2000, and really want to get back there. Very fun track, reminds me of the NoCal tracks.

Jim


----------



## corgicoupe (Sep 12, 2004)

grayghost said:


> I did my first DE this past weekend (Peachtree CCA Chapter, Road Atlanta course). Took my pure stock 2004 330Ci and it performed fine. Numerous other stock cars there also (although most were m-cars). Had a great time... car and I both went faser than I thought we were capable of. Make sure you get a ride with an instructor in his car early to set the proper "expectations".
> Question for the more experienced.... (I suspect this may be covered elsewhere, so feel free tp point me to the proper place).. I do want to do a little to my 330Ci to help the performance: I suspect that I may as well forget getting additional power.. any significant power additions (SC) would probably void my warranty, which I'm not ready to do. But how about suspension and such? I'm considering strut brace and better roll bars initially and a SSK for myself. I figure that I'll need new/different tires/wheels to really get use out of coil-overs so I figure to hold off on that until I need new tires. The end of the long straight at Road Atlanta is a downhill breaking zone to a 40-50mph corner (breaking from 100+ to about 45mph) and I frequently smelled boiling brake fluid. Should I replace my standard brake fluid with higher temp fluid? How about different pads?? I don't want to be swapping pads for each event (yet) so need suggestions for road/track capable pads.
> Thanks!


I was out there, too, in a black '99 M Coupe; it was my 7th time at RA. I suggest you do nothing to the car until you've done several more DEs, except to upgrade the brake fluid. Take the car to someone like Harrison Motorsports for the tech inspection, and they'll most likely have a suggestion. I'm still running street tires (Kumho Ecsta MX) as do many others. It will take some time before you exceed the capabilities of street tires. You may find you will need to upgrade pads next time you do the brakes, but go slowly. The M3s have a strut bar, so that's probably the first thing to add. Drive one or two schools before doing anything else. Get used to the car the way it is so you know how much you are improving in your skills. Modify too quickly and you won't be able to figure whether you are becoming more skilled or the car more forgiving.


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Jim44 said:


> I doubt it was fluid you were smelling. More likely it was the brake pads themselves. Stock ones especially give off a distinct "odor" when used aggressively.


Ditto.



> Now, if you plan on doing more than a couple of DE a year, yes I would suggest changing fluid to ATE SuperBlue/TYP200 (same fluid, different color) or at a minimum having the stock fluid changed every year. I don't have a rec for a good street/track pad, but seeing as you are a novice I would suggest that the stock pads will suffice for a while yet.


Ditto again. I change my ATE Blue/Type200 fluid once about every 6 months. Stock pads work fine where you're at now. I've done 16 DEs so far and I'm still on stock pads... (but by now I have been looking at other pad options on and off for a while)



> While not a performance upgrade, I do like SSK as they improve the "feel" of the car, especially on E36s (not too familiar with E46s).


My previous car had a fairly short throw from the factory so when I got into my E46, I was a little surprised at how much I had to row the lever. An SSK was one of the first changes I made to the car. Feels so much more connected rather than the slightly "numb" and mushy feel of the stock shifter. At least that's how I feel about it...



> All the other stuff can wait, IMO. You've only done one event, you still have a whole lot of "driving" to learn.


Ditto again. Once you get the feel for things, tires and suspension are the first place to start looking... (anti-roll (sway) bars, dampers, maybe springs/suspension kit etc.)


----------



## corgicoupe (Sep 12, 2004)

Jim44 said:


> I doubt it was fluid you were smelling. More likely it was the brake pads themselves. Stock ones especially give off a distinct "odor" when used aggressively.
> Jim


And you will smell that most strongly in T10A/B


----------



## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

You got that right !!  

And thanks for the other comments also.....

I figure there is no way to keep up with the M3s on the straights, but with a little suspension work, I may be able to stay with them through the turns.


----------



## corgicoupe (Sep 12, 2004)

grayghost said:


> You got that right !!
> 
> And thanks for the other comments also.....
> 
> I figure there is no way to keep up with the M3s on the straights, but with a little suspension work, I may be able to stay with them through the turns.


Perhaps it will help, but I've had a more experienced driver in Honda Civic catch me in the esses and T7, so work on your driving skills, consistency and smoothness. You'll hear folks say, "smoother is quicker".


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Confuscious say.... "Fast is not really fast.... slow is really fast.... " :eeps:


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

grayghost said:


> I figure there is no way to keep up with the M3s on the straights, but with a little suspension work, I may be able to stay with them through the turns.


You won't need the suspension upgrades to keep up with the M3's in the beginner groups. I once had an e46 325 with 70k miles on the clock and the original shocks, and I was easily able to keep up with many of the m3's in the turns. It sure would piss them off, though.

Otoh, I disagree with previous comments regarding brakes. I bleed mine before each event (Typ 200 only, Super Blue will stain everything) -- for gawd's sake it's only $10 a can. 
I also strongly suggest upgrading to at least street performance brake pads.


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

elbert said:


> You won't need the suspension upgrades to keep up with the M3's in the beginner groups. I once had an e46 325 with 70k miles on the clock and the original shocks, and I was easily able to keep up with many of the m3's in the turns. It sure would piss them off, though.


That's fun isn't it? 



> Otoh, I disagree with previous comments regarding brakes. I bleed mine before each event (Typ 200 only, Super Blue will stain everything) -- for gawd's sake it's only $10 a can.
> I also strongly suggest upgrading to at least street performance brake pads.


True.. I never said anything about bleeding.. which definitely happens more often. At least in my post I was refering to flushing the system. Yes Blue stains... so some dealers may give you a hard time about it if you are still under warranty/maintenance. but do I care? nah...  

He's only got a 330Ci like me... pad upgrades aren't necessary at this point... yet.... 
If in an M3... then maybe...


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

elbert said:


> Otoh, I disagree with previous comments regarding brakes. I bleed mine before each event (Typ 200 only, Super Blue will stain everything) -- for gawd's sake it's only $10 a can.


 Most of the schools I know about require that the brake fluid be flushed within 6 months, or less, of the event so that you have relatively fresh fluid in the system. On the other hand, it is always a good idea to bleed the system before every event if you don't want to be constantly buying a full system's worth of fluid each time.

The good part about alternating flushes with Typ200 and SuperBlue is that it is really easy to see when the fluid in each line has been completely replaced, but the Blue will stain everything, if that is a concern.


----------



## liuk3 (May 3, 2004)

doeboy said:


> He's only got a 330Ci like me... pad upgrades aren't necessary at this point... yet....
> If in an M3... then maybe...


You're honestly the reason why I stayed with stock pads so far. I figured that if they're good enough for you all this time (and you've been driving for years), I'm sure they are good enough for me at my lower level. :thumbup:


----------



## Jim44 (Feb 28, 2004)

Agreed that a more frequent "bleed" of the brakes is helpful, on top of the yearly or so complete "flush". For me, almost always before any event at Laguna Seca, and subsequently depending on how the brake pedal feels.

Not sure how I forgot to mention that, probably all the :drink:

Jim


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

doeboy said:


> That's fun isn't it?


Yeah, that was a lot of fun. I'm trying to handicap this car by leaving my suspension stock (for now) and running street tires.



> True.. I never said anything about bleeding.. which definitely happens more often. At least in my post I was refering to flushing the system.


Ah, when I bleed the brakes, I usually end up flushing the system :dunno:


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Around here you have to FLUSH the brake system every 6 or 3 months, depending on group. A good idea anyway for the track ,fluid is cheap, feeling of pedal going to teh floor at the end of the longest fastest straight, PRICELESS. 

Guys running Castrol SRF do in annually, and lie about it.

DO NOT MOD your car, MOD the driver. Heck at O'fest stock 2002s were blowing off some E46 M3s. Until you are consistantly running out of pads, tires, etc, leave things alone. Changing things will just have you chasing mods.

Trust me a good driver in your car will be MUCH faster. And with proper training and attitude, so will you.

I run a true spec class race car, with sealed mootros, spec tires, etc. On a track that the lap record is 1:24, the back of the field is running 1:29 or slower. And if the last guy and first guy swapped cars, guess what, they would run about the SAME lap times.


----------

