# FYI: I take back most of the bad things I've said about SMG.



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

It's amazing what functioning software will do for it.


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

:dunno:

Is there _another_ new update?


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Not sure when thsi one is dated, but it's from after my transmission was replaced.


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> It's amazing what functioning software will do for it.


Did you know that the SMG2 in the M3 has not 2nd to 1st downshift rev match when you are off throttle because of EPA issue? 

The crappy SMG system in the regular bimmers have 2nd to 1st gear downshift rev match when you are off throttle because they don't drink gas like an M3 does. 

That was my only gripe with the SMG2. I love everything else about it, and wish that my Turbo has it. :banghead:


----------



## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

not sure why you would want rev matching from 2 to 1, but just do it yourself.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Hmm. I got new software when I got the rod bearings done. My first impressions are that it sucks. But I have only 100 miles of break in driving on it.


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> not sure why you would want rev matching from 2 to 1, but just do it yourself.


If I wanted to do it myself, I would have bought a stick version. If you tell people that the system rev matches, then REV MATCH AT ALL TIMES. 

BTW, I really really miss the SMG in the M3, the Turbo clutch is way too poseur friendly that it lacks any feel since it's so over assisted, and the throw is pretty damn clunky, probably so that 50 year old mid life crisis guy can shift without over revving the car.  :thumbdwn:

Of all the cars that I have driven, I like the clutches in the following cars:

E34, now that is a manly clutch. :thumbup:

E30, this thing is so predictable and it just grabs and goes. Everyone who has driven my E30 loves it, especially E46 drivers. :thumbup:

E36 M3 clutch, beautiful, though not quite as er, manly, I mean, heavy as the E34. :thumbup:

E46 clutch? Sucks big time. :thumbdwn:

Turbo clutch? Yep, sucks big time too. :thumbdwn:

Why can't they make clutch like the old days? Right, it's too heavy for the whimps.  :thumbdwn:


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Is this different software than the last SMG service bulletin? I had that done and did not notice much of a difference, if any.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Mine was done mid January with the latest software as part of the rod bearing deal.

If ind that right now (low miles, moderate driving) that it OVER lifts for shifts. The shifts are VERY soft. This in S5 and S6.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Not sure when thsi one is dated, but it's from after my transmission was replaced.


Is there are post or thread somewhere about why your transmission had to be replaced? (I don't think that atyclb is awake yet, or I would ask him)

:dunno:

.


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

Stuka said:


> E36 M3 clutch, beautiful, though not quite as er, manly, I mean, heavy as the E34. :thumbup:
> 
> E46 clutch? Sucks big time. :thumbdwn:
> 
> ...


The E46 clutch is fine once you remove the CDV.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Well, put a couple of hundred miles on it yesterday and today, and it is behainvg MUCH better. It seems to be shifting quicker and requiring a bit of lift to be smooth.

The rev matching does seem to be better than the older software.


----------



## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

SoloII///M said:


> The E46 clutch is fine once you remove the CDV.


Mine came with NO CDV. It's as good or better than others I've driven with the CDV removed, but it still has no feedback compared to old cars. The M6's clutch is a bit heavy, but it has excellent feel. E30s are the same. If I had to teach someone how to drive a MT, I'd do it in the M6 over my 325 just for this reason.


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Mine came with NO CDV. It's as good or better than others I've driven with the CDV removed, but it still has no feedback compared to old cars. The M6's clutch is a bit heavy, but it has excellent feel. E30s are the same. If I had to teach someone how to drive a MT, I'd do it in the M6 over my 325 just for this reason.


I'd be interested to know if the old cars had a helper spring on the clutch pedal. My E36 has it. The E46 cars have it. do the E30s?

The helper spring makes the pedal effort constant over the range of travel as compared to a car that does not have it. My E36 has the helper spring removed and the effort is light up top, stiff down low. I suspect this is what you're talking about. It is a bit easier to find the engagement point, at the expense of pedal effort.

John


----------



## cchan (Sep 19, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Mine was done mid January with the latest software as part of the rod bearing deal.
> 
> If ind that right now (low miles, moderate driving) that it OVER lifts for shifts. The shifts are VERY soft. This in S5 and S6.


I also got the new software update when in for the bearing rod change about a month ago. My sense is that shifts complete faster than before. I used to drive in S4, now I've dropped to S3 because S4 and S5 seem like the SMG is trying to shift too fast - kind of like forcing speed shifts as it re-engages the clutch before the engine revs have dropped on upshifts and giving a little kick. Didn't think it would be good to cause unnecessary strain on components for normal driving...


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

cchan said:


> I also got the new software update when in for the bearing rod change about a month ago. My sense is that shifts complete faster than before. I used to drive in S4, now I've dropped to S3 because S4 and S5 seem like the SMG is trying to shift too fast - kind of like forcing speed shifts as it re-engages the clutch before the engine revs have dropped on upshifts and giving a little kick. Didn't think it would be good to cause unnecessary strain on components for normal driving...


Exactly opposite of my experience, but it is changing over time, so I am not sure what is up.

But it is getting back to normal. For me.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Pinecone said:


> But it is getting back to normal. For me.


That's good news. :thumbup:

Alex


----------



## cchan (Sep 19, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Exactly opposite of my experience, but it is changing over time, so I am not sure what is up.
> 
> But it is getting back to normal. For me.


I'm nearing the end of break in, so we'll see if anything changes. So far I like the update - but I thought my car's shifts were way too slow in day to day driving before the update.


----------



## sorianoa (Oct 3, 2004)

Is the clutch feel any different between the 330 and 330 zhp? finally got my money from the insurance company and am picking up a 330 zhp tomorrow. Only diff is this will be manual. Can't see how the clutch performance would be poor. Could you comment a bit more on why you rated e46 clutch performance poorly?

thanks


----------



## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

WILLIA///M said:


> Is this different software than the last SMG service bulletin? I had that done and did not notice much of a difference, if any.


So much software in BMW's these days.

If you have problems with 2 -> 1 rev matching on downshifts you can reach under the steering wheel and hit Ctrl-Alt-Del according to the software maker!


----------



## e36M3r (Oct 19, 2004)

There's another thing that has come to mind! In the morning, when I drive off... I'm shifting very easily on the car until it warms up. I was thinking the other day, no way could SMG be this gentle on the car when it is cold. Or do you have to / should you adjust he drive-logic down when it is cold then back up as it warms up.



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> I'm at the 60/40 side of worth it.
> 
> If it weren't for the reliability issues, I'd be at 80/20. SMG blows synchros all the time in well used cars. I'm on my second tranny, and we'll see how long this one lasts.


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I know everyone always talks about how crappy the e46 clutch feel is. But, what in reality are the differences between this clutch and older BMW clutches that everyone liked. Is it just:
-CDV
-dual mass fly-wheel (although I think BMWs have had this for a while)
-"helper" spring

BMWs have always had hydraulic cluthces right? so that's not it.


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

rourkem said:


> Annoying. Overall, do you still find SMG to be worth it?


I REALLY like SMG....but it does take a while (months) to get used to and able to drive smoothly.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Pinecone said:


> But we did (actually went down to College Park to a really good orean place we know)


If it's in a hotel on Route 1, I just ate there a couple weeks ago when visiting my son at school. Yumm.

Alex


----------



## Dizzy (Dec 29, 2004)

I've now had my SMG for a little over a month. It drove me nuts when the car would start a downshift just as I wanted to go, and I'd be stuck waiting for it to finish (only a second, maybe two, but annoying as all hell). I now downshift manually all the time, even to 1st. This lets me avoid getting stuck between shifts when I want to go. Its now habit, I don't even need to think about it, I just do it... and my timing is getting better with practice. 3rd into 2nd is the only tricky one to get smooth. I sometimes blip the throttle, or just wait until 1500 or below in 3rd to change for a smooth shift. 2nd to 1st is easy... just do it right before you stop. Makes rolling stops much more pleasant. 

I ordered the SMG, then got cold feet and changed my order because I thought I'd get bored with it (I haven't had an automatic since 1985). I rarely drive in heavy traffic, so the convenience or auto mode wasn't a factor for me. I did a last minute test drive again of both an SMG and 6MT. I was coming out of an S2000, and the Manual tranny in the M was nowhere near as good as the S, so I decided to change back to SMG. I'm glad I did. I don't know how I'll feel in a year or two, but right now, I'm very happy with it (so long as I downshift myself  )


----------



## e36M3r (Oct 19, 2004)

Good stuff. A similar thing happened to me. I had planned on getting SMG since the day I heard of it, then right at the end I was getting worried about it being a bit boring. I got lucky and went by the dealer the week before I ordered and he was really busy so he just gave me the keys to a used SMG and 6sp. I then went into the canyons (stunt road) behind the dealership and took each car up there. It convinced me to go with SMG. Plus, in the end, I had wanted it so long, I couldn't picture myself in the 6sp. And I've never purchased a non manual car in my life.



Dizzy said:


> I ordered the SMG, then got cold feet


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> There is a kick down mode. I've been giving serious thought to installing an manual tranny gas pedal. That button is ****ing annoying.


Done that. 

The big deal with SMG is ONLY if you let it auto shift down coming to a stop. Off throttle, low speed downshifts are very slow, and you can catch the tranny between gears.

It auto shifts very late, leaving you at a very low RPM if you want to take off again. It is only downshifting to avoid serious lugging of the engine.

So drive it like a manual, downshift yourself coming to a stop. And give a little heel and toe blip as you downshift, really speeds it up, so you will be in gear, clutch engaged if you want to leave in a hurry.

If you drove your manual by putting it in neutral while stopping, and then wanted to go, you would have to push in teh clutch, select the proper gear, and let the clutch out, then go. By being lazy with SMG you are in the same mode.

And people complain about SMG for not being involving, while you have to make the same decisions as to doing things at the right time as with a normal manual.


----------



## cchan (Sep 19, 2002)

Well put, Terry. When driving a manual, we are also mentally planning and anticipating what we are going to do next (ie downshift when coming to a stop). To be fair, SMG can only react to what is going on, which is certainly going to be later than and disconnected from what we are planning mentally - it can't read our minds (and I guess the predictive logic is limited). It won't know that you intended to come to a full stop until you actually come to a full stop (and then it shifts into 1st).

With that said, I do still wish that the low speed/off throttle downshifts could be faster.


----------



## rourkem (Jan 2, 2002)

Given that it's best if you heel-toe the throttle on downshifts, are the gas and brake placed the same as the manual 3 series? I heel-toe every day in my 330Ci, and the gas and brake are placed perfectly for it. 

Rourke


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

rourkem said:


> Given that it's best if you heel-toe the throttle on downshifts, are the gas and brake placed the same as the manual 3 series? I heel-toe every day in my 330Ci, and the gas and brake are placed perfectly for it.
> 
> Rourke


Same, minus the clutch pedal of course.


----------



## e36M3r (Oct 19, 2004)

Good stuff!


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

When I drive a manual, Terry, I clutch in when coming to a stop. The problem is that the auto-downshift kicks in about a quarter of a second before I would like to do it.

Really, it ought to rev match and execute quickly if it's going to do anything automatically.


----------



## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

I think some one said a while back that it took more thought processing to drive a SMG than a manual...I never thought to test drive the SMG, because of the automatic feel...I guess I'm glad I went with the 6spd...blah..blah..blah said the dealer, it can shift 10 times faster than you can..blah..blah..blah...All of you are saying it's slow shifting...

I saw a video of a SC'd CSL launching with launch control from ESS's site....Looked pretty harsh...as in nothing shy of dumping full clutch out at 5k...what gives??
http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=movies


----------



## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> When I drive a manual, Terry, I clutch in when coming to a stop. The problem is that the auto-downshift kicks in about a quarter of a second before I would like to do it.
> 
> Really, it ought to rev match and execute quickly if it's going to do anything automatically.


 I guess that software isn't enough...Now it sounds like you're back to not liking it...I would say by what it sounds like from everyone, is that what everyone exspects from SMG is just not mechanically possible...
So you have to rev match manually...Good, puts the driver back into the game..after all, even Formula one drivers have to do it.....of course, they have a gear for any speed..MB does their AMG beautifully, they lack all the driving options, but I swear, it figures it out..I notice it in my old man's CLK 55 more so... the harder you drive the car, the seat belts will tighten, and the tranny always keeps revs up, regardless if you're doing the shifting or not...and smooth as butter when normal city driving..
So if you were to do it all over again, would you do the SMG again? Thoughts about the 7spd SMG?


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

dawgbone said:


> [snip]


I think you are confusing SMG for an automatic tranny....that is what the AMG allusion is about right ?

SMG has some quirks that surface during low speed/liesurely drives that completely dissapear during agressive driving (where SMG shines.)


----------

