# Car too low?



## Herb Marshall (Jan 29, 2003)

I have a 2004 325Ci. Drove up against standard concrete wheel stop in parking lot. When backing, the rebar stake securing the concrete stop, was protruding up about 1/4 inch from the concrete surface. It caught my bumper cover and pulled it loose from the car. There are cheap little plastic fasteners that pull out. The bumper cover can't be repaired according to 2 BMW dealers and a replacement bumper, painted and installed, pushes $1,000. Both dealers, and a body shop, say it "happens all the time" "The car is too low". Well, I know the shopping center should be liable for the protruding metal stake, and I' working on that. But, question is, if it happens all the time, what's up with the BMW design? Other cars clear the concrete by several inches. I make it a point to NOT alter a stock BMW, with tires, wheels or springs. In this case, "stock" is disappointing, and very expensive.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

I take it this is your first performance-minded car, Herb? One of the primary methods of improving car handling is by lowering it. If you park your Bimmer next to something more utilitarian, like a Honda Accord, you will see that there is much less ground clearance in the BMW.

The clear advantage is that your BMW handles much better than your average car. This comes at the cost of having to be more conscious of your car and your surroundings. I never pull up so that my tires touch the concrete bumps in parking lots any more; I've learned the length of my car, and I park just a few inches short of it. It's simple enough to do and will save you the headache of possibly pulling off your bumper.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

maybe you're just looking for the right mod for your car :dunno:


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

The shopping center is not liable for the damage...

You pulled up to too close to the stop.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

I always thought the concerte stop was an emergency thing to keep someone who parks in gear or whose e-brake fails from plowing into another car, not a regular parking aid?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> I always thought the concerte stop was an emergency thing to keep someone who parks in gear or whose e-brake fails from plowing into another car, not a regular parking aid?


 I think they were originally meant to be tire stops. I remember seeing just about everyone parked with their tires touching the stops when I was a little kid. These days, with more and more cars not having enough ground clearance to do it, I don't see it happen as much.


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## e46shift (Oct 12, 2002)

theres a speedbump i go over that i have to crawl over with the car in neutral whilst trailbraking to clear without smacking the bottom. even 1st gear idling is too fast and compresses the springs where it lowers the car too much. 
comes with the territory i guess.
maybe the new x3 will be a better choice. :dunno:


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

On my previous car which I lowered and added a body kit, and on my stock BMW (which is lower out of the box), I've just learned to park with enough clearance so that there is no worry about hitting the curb/stop/whatever. Not being an SUV the size of the Exxon Valdeze I don't need to worry about the rear end sticking out at all.


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## RandyB (Mar 4, 2003)

*3-Series...*

That's some feat, especially when you consider that the 3-series has probably the least amount of front end overhang of all cars. You don't have to 'dock it'. 

I have come pretty close myself though, so I can see that it's definitely possible.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

OBS3SSION said:


> On my previous car which I lowered and added a body kit, and on my stock BMW (which is lower out of the box), I've just learned to park with enough clearance so that there is no worry about hitting the curb/stop/whatever. Not being an SUV the size of the Exxon Valdeze I don't need to worry about the rear end sticking out at all.


 I even do the same in my Jeep. It's become a habit, unless I feel like testing out the low mode.


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## Ashe too (Dec 22, 2001)

I did that on a '99 model shortly after I got it. I took it home, drove up on a set of ramps and with a little creative work got the cover back on and secured. Cost about $5 in fasteners and 3 or 4 hours of labor. You could not tell the difference once I was done. That was the last time I pulled up so close when parking.

But BMWs are, and always have been, close to the ground, which is one reason they handle so well. Just be careful.


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## Latte (Jul 24, 2003)

you can always go check out the for sale section at E46 fanatics for a bumper (especially if you have silver or black) they usually sell for 200-300 and only takes like ten minutes of your time to swap. Or another thing you can do is swap out your sport suspension with the non-sport from another member. I'm sure the non-sports guys would be more than happy to trade with you.


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## yamato (Feb 11, 2003)

one day i saw a modified pickup in a mall with adjustable suspension height. At first it looked like a regular pickup. But then I found the suspensions could be lowered after the guy parked his car. So low I saw the side skirt touched the ground. I just found it a very nice mod!

Maybe bmw should also make suspensions adjustable so a vehicle can be suitable for any specific driving condition.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Ashe too said:


> But BMWs are, and always have been, close to the ground


The 325 was high enough before I lowered it that I could crawl under it to do maintenence without jacking it up. :eeps:


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> I always thought the concerte stop was an emergency thing to keep someone who parks in gear or whose e-brake fails from plowing into another car, not a regular parking aid?


Actually, you can easily drive over one of those... yes, even in a BMW 3er!


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## Patrick330i (Sep 30, 2002)

Whenever I encounter one of those, I always *back in* . I am not the only one.


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

sergiok said:


> Actually, you can easily drive over one of those... yes, even in a BMW 3er!


 :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:


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## e46shift (Oct 12, 2002)

if you end up replacing the front bumper you might as well get an mtech front bumper. probably the same or cheaper :dunno:


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

Herb Marshall said:


> I have a 2004 325Ci. Drove up against standard concrete wheel stop in parking lot. When backing, the rebar stake securing the concrete stop, was protruding up about 1/4 inch from the concrete surface. It caught my bumper cover and pulled it loose from the car. There are cheap little plastic fasteners that pull out. The bumper cover can't be repaired according to 2 BMW dealers and a replacement bumper, painted and installed, pushes $1,000. Both dealers, and a body shop, say it "happens all the time" "The car is too low". Well, I know the shopping center should be liable for the protruding metal stake, and I' working on that. But, question is, if it happens all the time, what's up with the BMW design? Other cars clear the concrete by several inches. I make it a point to NOT alter a stock BMW, with tires, wheels or springs. In this case, "stock" is disappointing, and very expensive.


I FEEL for you... I did exactly the same thing about 3 weeks after I got my 2004 Ci. My normal body shop charged right at $600 to replace with a new bumper cover and paint, etc. The shop recommended by the BMW dealer wanted about $800. 
Contrary to most of the other posts, I do think there are any number of things BMW could do to reduce/eliminate this problem. They don't have to raise the whole car, just put a couple of tabs on the bottom of the bumper to lift most of it off the concrete stop a little so that the main part of the bumper does not catch on the rebar pieces... Come on guys, if BMW is so great at engineering, surely they could engineer a fix for this...


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

yamato said:


> one day i saw a modified pickup in a mall with adjustable suspension height. At first it looked like a regular pickup. But then I found the suspensions could be lowered after the guy parked his car. So low I saw the side skirt touched the ground. I just found it a very nice mod!
> 
> Maybe bmw should also make suspensions adjustable so a vehicle can be suitable for any specific driving condition.


 That's EXPENSIVE!

And ridiculous.

And adjustable systems are suboptimal handlers anyway. Drive a Mercedes with ABC on a bumpy road and you'll understand what I mean.


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## milski (Aug 25, 2003)

grayghost said:


> Come on guys, if BMW is so great at engineering, surely they could engineer a fix for this...


That's sort of controversial...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43559


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> That's EXPENSIVE!
> 
> And ridiculous.
> 
> And adjustable systems are suboptimal handlers anyway. Drive a Mercedes with ABC on a bumpy road and you'll understand what I mean.


< post deleted.... reference was to a different reply than I thought>


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

grayghost said:


> Come on guys, if BMW is so great at engineering, surely they could engineer a fix for this...


I'd rather have a car designed/engineered WITHOUT the assumption that I'll be regularly driving over parking blocks!

You simply can't engineer a car for everything.


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## Herb Marshall (Jan 29, 2003)

Thanks for your Bimmerhead responses, especially the ONE compasionate one from Marietta. I'll have to be more careful as I enjoy my car. I have since gotten a lower bid, for $650 for replacement of the bumper. Also I am happy to say that the shopping center has admitted their responsibility for the rebar protruding from their installed concrete TIRE STOP, and they are paying me in full for the repairs. Drive safe.


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## rwebbe (Jan 20, 2002)

Do you suppose this is why a stock M 3 can be driven at 170 MPH without becoming airborn? Look at the posts on this under General Stuff or whatever. You folks who live in snow country sure must be careful when slush turns back to ice with build up. Don't take much to tear up the plastic. I kncked the horizontal stabilizer piece loose on mine when a pile of diiscarded rubber from truck recap on the Interstate appeared.


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

sergiok said:


> I'd rather have a car designed/engineered WITHOUT the assumption that I'll be regularly driving over parking blocks!
> 
> You simply can't engineer a car for everything.


One should not be penalized $600 - $1000 for driving up to a parking block like you would about any other car. I'm not talking about just scratching the paint off the bottom of the bumper, I'm talking about yanking the whole front bumper off! That's just not a good design. There are perfectly good solutions that would weigh all of 8 oz.s and would have no adverse affect... what's the problem with making improvements when possible and desireable. 
The front bumper changed on the 2004 CIs, I wonder if prior years had the same problem?? Two of us on this list had the same problem, has anyone had this happen with previous years?? If not, I suspect there has been some change that may not have been for the better.


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## jsc (Sep 3, 2003)

grayghost said:


> One should not be penalized $600 - $1000 for driving up to a parking block like you would about any other car. I'm not talking about just scratching the paint off the bottom of the bumper, I'm talking about yanking the whole front bumper off! That's just not a good design. There are perfectly good solutions that would weigh all of 8 oz.s and would have no adverse affect... what's the problem with making improvements when possible and desireable.
> The front bumper changed on the 2004 CIs, I wonder if prior years had the same problem?? Two of us on this list had the same problem, has anyone had this happen with previous years?? If not, I suspect there has been some change that may not have been for the better.


The 2000 coupes are certainly lower than parking spot dividers and capable of scraping average height curbs, one just has to be careful parking. One could always buy a pair of old-fashioned curb feelers fitted forward instead of sideways facing!


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

grayghost said:


> One should not be penalized $600 - $1000 for driving up to a parking block like you would about any other car.


I agree, but a 3er ain't your grandpa's Olds! I learned a long time ago (within the 1st couple months of ownership) to not pull up to pakring blocks "like you would about any other car". Now that I got the PSS9 kit installed, I make it even more of a point to never pull all the way up to a parking block or... cha ching!


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I've done similar things several times w/ my 01 325i sport and although i've scraped the bottom of the front bumper-- i've never pulled it off. I wonder if there is indeed some sort of design defect in the facelifted coupe bumper. Then again, if I had a facelifted coupe, I'd welcome any excuse to tear the buck-toothed std bumper off and replace it w/ an M-tech bumper-- so maybe those engineers in Munich are secretly revolting against Bangle.


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

robg said:


> I've done similar things several times w/ my 01 325i sport and although i've scraped the bottom of the front bumper-- i've never pulled it off. I wonder if there is indeed some sort of design defect in the facelifted coupe bumper. Then again, if I had a facelifted coupe, I'd welcome any excuse to tear the buck-toothed std bumper off and replace it w/ an M-tech bumper-- so maybe those engineers in Munich are secretly revolting against Bangle.


I considered replacing with the M-Tech bumper.... but it would have been a "special order" and would also have necessitated the replacement of perfectly good driving lights and the cross-hatched grill backgrounds. 
I suspect (can't say for sure) that previous models may have had a slightly rounded/beveled lower-rear edge to the bumper cover, so that the bumper would ride up/over an obstruction when backing up. The current bumper has a perfectly flat/straight lower edge that will catch on any little protuding object.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Are you sure you need a full bumper? Not sure about a 04 325, but my 01 SP/325 has a lower spoiler that I believe is replaceable for a couple hundred bucks. BTW, I split my cars lower spoiler on a tire stop 6 months after buying the car, and have never got around to replacing the lower spoiler piece. 

The spoiler is to low and needs to come up about an inch or two, and there is a problem during the winter with deep snow and the front acts as a snowplow.


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## Toast (Jan 9, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> Are you sure you need a full bumper? Not sure about a 04 325, but my 01 SP/325 has a lower spoiler that I believe is replaceable for a couple hundred bucks. BTW, I split my cars lower spoiler on a tire stop 6 months after buying the car, and have never got around to replacing the lower spoiler piece.
> 
> The spoiler is to low and needs to come up about an inch or two, and there is a problem during the winter with deep snow and the front acts as a snowplow.


If you're talking about the lower painted portion of the bumper, it is infact impossible to replace that piece alone. It comes as 1 piece bumper along with the "top part". The reason why you think that's replacable could be the fact that there seems to be two "grooves" running from the lower long "hole" to the ends of the bumper before the front wheels.

Unless you are talking about buying a front spoiler to cover up the damage. :dunno:


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## Herb Marshall (Jan 29, 2003)

*Car Too Low*

The bumper cover on the 2004 Ci is one piece. The problem is, the plastic fastener holes where they plug into a plastic bracket, tear apart (easily) when there is pressure on the bumper cover pulling it away from the car. I know a "bondo" repair body guy who said he could "try" to repair the plastic cover like you would fiberglass. I opted not to try this. Meanwhile, they make little "slip on" repair parts (just a few cents) to "fix" the slots on plastic vertical blinds when they pull out. Very much the same problem. They have them at Home Depot/Lowe's. Something like this might save some $600 repairs. Another problem is that BMW bumper covers come unpainted so they have to be color matched and painted before installation.


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## Herb Marshall (Jan 29, 2003)

*Car Too Low*

Mine is Jet Black, but thanks. New one should be in today. They'll make sure it's right one and then get it painted.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Toast said:


> If you're talking about the lower painted portion of the bumper, it is infact impossible to replace that piece alone. It comes as 1 piece bumper along with the "top part". The reason why you think that's replacable could be the fact that there seems to be two "grooves" running from the lower long "hole" to the ends of the bumper before the front wheels.
> 
> Unless you are talking about buying a front spoiler to cover up the damage. :dunno:


Yes you are right I went and checked... they should make the lower spoiler a separate piece because it is so easily damaged.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Speaking of ground clearance....

I searched but can't seem to find much info on stock ground clearance for various E46 models (sport and non-sport).

All I found was that the 328i has about 3.8" of ground clearance and the 323i has about 4.2" but I'm not sure about those either.... :dunno:

Anybody know these ground clearance specs or know where I can find'em?

I'm especially curious about current Coupe ground clearance (325/330) versus 325/330 sedan non-sport and sport numbers...

TIA


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

sergiok said:


> Actually, you can easily drive over one of those... yes, even in a BMW 3er!


Just ask you-know-who.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

grayghost said:


> Contrary to most of the other posts, I do think there are any number of things BMW could do to reduce/eliminate this problem. They don't have to raise the whole car, just put a couple of tabs on the bottom of the bumper to lift most of it off the concrete stop a little so that the main part of the bumper does not catch on the rebar pieces... Come on guys, if BMW is so great at engineering, surely they could engineer a fix for this...


If BMW raises the lower part of the bumper so that this type of problem does not occur, then the aerodynamics of the car (specifically the airflow under the car) will be affected, and hence the handling of the car will be compromised at speed.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

doeboy said:


> Speaking of ground clearance....
> 
> I searched but can't seem to find much info on stock ground clearance for various E46 models (sport and non-sport).
> 
> ...


Let's ask SCTS Crash Test Dummy #2... :neener: :angel:


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

sergiok said:


> ... cha ching!


Or as I'd affectionately call it, pulling a Scotty!


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## Maverick (Jun 25, 2003)

Raffi said:


> Just ask you-know-who.


Raffi how is your car?


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

Maverick said:


> Raffi how is your car?


Super, thanks for asking! :SouthParkJoke: 

Anyway, it handles great, no problems. I still have to get around to buying the wheel well liner from the dealer and install it, which shouldn't take me more than 15 minutes, including attaching the air horns on the new piece. :thumbup:


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

Raffi said:


> If BMW raises the lower part of the bumper so that this type of problem does not occur, then the aerodynamics of the car (specifically the airflow under the car) will be affected, and hence the handling of the car will be compromised at speed.


The problem is not simply the height of the bottom of the bumper. The problem is the shape of the lower back edge of the bumper (flat and straight so that it catches on any protuding object very easily). There are several potential fixes that would correct this without affecting the airflow (which is rather turbulent there anyway) in any way. Right or wrong, I've dragged several other bumpers across parking stoppers like this with no problem (other than a few scratches). The 330Ci is the only one that that is shaped so that the bumper catches like it does. A slight upward curl at the back edge of the bumper would correct the problem. Simple, no effect on performance, no additional weight, only a fairly minor change to a mold used to make the bumper cover. There are other possible 'fixes' for the existing bumpers that are out there that would be just as simple and almost as effective. If it can be fixed, with no adverse effects (and it can), why not fix it?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Raffi said:


> Super, thanks for asking! :SouthParkJoke:


:rofl:

"That'th Thuper! Thilly!"


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

grayghost said:


> The problem is not simply the height of the bottom of the bumper. The problem is the shape of the lower back edge of the bumper (flat and straight so that it catches on any protuding object very easily). There are several potential fixes that would correct this without affecting the airflow (which is rather turbulent there anyway) in any way. Right or wrong, I've dragged several other bumpers across parking stoppers like this with no problem (other than a few scratches). The 330Ci is the only one that that is shaped so that the bumper catches like it does. A slight upward curl at the back edge of the bumper would correct the problem. Simple, no effect on performance, no additional weight, only a fairly minor change to a mold used to make the bumper cover. There are other possible 'fixes' for the existing bumpers that are out there that would be just as simple and almost as effective. If it can be fixed, with no adverse effects (and it can), why not fix it?


Right, I believe mine split when the back part of the spoiler caught on the stop when pulling back. A easy fix would be a good couple of inches upturn in the back of the lip, and making the bottom part of the spoiler more flexible would help.


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## julz (Oct 22, 2003)

*who's fault is it?*



Herb Marshall said:


> I have a 2004 325Ci. Drove up against standard concrete wheel stop in parking lot. When backing, the rebar stake securing the concrete stop, was protruding up about 1/4 inch from the concrete surface. It caught my bumper cover and pulled it loose from the car. There are cheap little plastic fasteners that pull out. The bumper cover can't be repaired according to 2 BMW dealers and a replacement bumper, painted and installed, pushes $1,000. Both dealers, and a body shop, say it "happens all the time" "The car is too low". Well, I know the shopping center should be liable for the protruding metal stake, and I' working on that. But, question is, if it happens all the time, what's up with the BMW design? Other cars clear the concrete by several inches. I make it a point to NOT alter a stock BMW, with tires, wheels or springs. In this case, "stock" is disappointing, and very expensive.


I am sorry you hurt your BMW, for sure. But I feel it is ultimately our own responsibility and no one elses to make sure our property isn't damaged by our own operation. I would be sick if I did this to my car, but I couldn't blame the store, they couldn't possibly put up bump stops for every make and modified make of car/truck in existence. I'm sure the law states that in public places, the public assumes a modicom of responsibility legally. Unfortunately of course.

I have had many american cars that were low riders (show cars not junkers). I drove a few on the street and was extremely careful of curbs and the road in general. My Corvette was the lowest at less than 1 1/4". I had a special ecklers daytona front end on it and it was just asking for it. I never even knicked it in 3 years, but my then bf didn't watch where he was going and ripped half of it off going into a store parking lot. I say that time it was the "nut behind the wheel".

I just read where you got reimbursed by the store so they were obviously at fault...you are lucky. I still say beware. Parking lots are the most hated places I have to take my vehicles.


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## Maverick (Jun 25, 2003)

Raffi said:


> Super, thanks for asking! :SouthParkJoke:
> 
> Anyway, it handles great, no problems. I still have to get around to buying the wheel well liner from the dealer and install it, which shouldn't take me more than 15 minutes, including attaching the air horns on the new piece. :thumbup:


I glad to hear. :thumbup: That was probably the worst sound I ever heard.


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## PABS (Apr 3, 2003)

I have UUC springs and my car is 1.5in lower than stock...I never pull up to anything that resembles a curb...in fact I make sure to not go up and down ramps quickly either..

Since I've been driving "low" cars all my life this is not a problem for me...


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I guess many of you guys don't drive in a car hazard nightmare like Chicago.


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## PABS (Apr 3, 2003)

True....if I drove in Chicago i'd own a 20 year old International Harvester.. :rofl:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> Right, I believe mine split when the back part of the spoiler caught on the stop when pulling back. A easy fix would be a good couple of inches upturn in the back of the lip, and making the bottom part of the spoiler more flexible would help.


The downturn at the trailing edge is part of the aerodynamics. Turning that up will probably increase airflow into the wheelwell and cause aero issues in there. Then these same people will complain that they were driving 100mph and the front end felt 'light.' :tsk:

Why don't you whiney people all get curb feelers all around the car?


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Kaz said:


> The downturn at the trailing edge is part of the aerodynamics. Turning that up will probably increase airflow into the wheelwell and cause aero issues in there. Then these same people will complain that they were driving 100mph and the front end felt 'light.' :tsk:
> 
> Why don't you whiney people all get curb feelers all around the car?


I was whiney... WTF?

What the heck is wrong with discussing the design of a part. :tsk:


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## Maverick (Jun 25, 2003)

At some point people have to take some responsibility. If you want a car that performs well it needs to be lower. Accidents happen and that's life. It sucks but it's time we moved on.


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

Maverick said:


> At some point people have to take some responsibility. If you want a car that performs well it needs to be lower. Accidents happen and that's life. It sucks but it's time we moved on.


I can only assume you have not been reading and paying attention... No one has suggested raising any part of the car, bumper included. There has been no suggestion for any 'fix' that would have any detrimental effect on the performance of the car. The things I have suggested (only as examples, not as the only way to do it) have no adverse efffects. I assume you would also say that our cars should not have seat belts, air bags, cushioned dashes, or safety glass because all these things add weight/complexity, decrease performance, and are of no use unless I (or someone) screws up and has an 'accident'. If there is an easy, inexpensive 'fix' that has no adverse effects, why not??


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