# Chp Sucks!!!



## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

doeboy said:


> *
> 
> Speeding no.... excessive speeding (95 or higher I think) however can pretty much equate to gross negligence and wrecklessness, which I think IS arrestable....
> *


wreckless = lack of a wreck = good
reckless = dangerous = bad


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: It never pays to be a smart a$$*



Stuka said:


> *
> I have been pulled over for going 90 in a 65 and been let go. I didn't use any special favors, all I did was acknowleging the cop's power by telling him that 'You are absolutely right, I should be more careful." And doing all the things that put his mind at ease, like asking for permission before reaching for my license, which was in my pocket. Once they feel like they are in control of the situation, you are already one their good side. Just acknowledge whatever else they said as right and that you were in the wrong. That's how I got out of my 90 in a 65.
> 
> Repeat after me, "Never piss off the man with a badge and a gun."
> ...


Sage advice, oh Oracle of Denny's.  :thumbup:


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*I am thankful that I live in CA*



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *TWO POINTS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> :banghead: :bawling: :banghead: :bawling: :banghead: :bawling: :banghead: :bawling:
> 
> Cops can give you SEVEN points for that here in MD! :banghead: Total fines are well north of $1K, too. :banghead: *


and not People's Republic of East Coast States. Here's something that'll make you eat your heart out.

If you get a speeding ticket in CA, here's what you do.

1. File a discovery request with the CHP for officer's notes on your technical arrest (aka, getting pulled over).

2. Send in your "Not guilty plea by mail." This allows you to enter your plea without going to court.

3. Send in "Trial by Declaration" once your plea has been acknoledged by the court. Call the court and have them check the docket.

4. If you should be find guilty in this format, send in "Trial De Novo" request for a new trial in front of a judge.

5. Send in an extension request, you aer alloed two by law.

6. Go to court. If it's a comissioner presiding, tell him to buzz off and to have your court date rescheduled so that you can have your case be heard in front of a real court appointed judge.

7. Remember that discovery request that you sent to the CHP? Well, CHP in general do NOT respond to dicovery request.

8. Go to court in front of a real court appointed judge, and request a continuence based on the fact that discovery request sent to the CHP were not forthcoming.

9. At this point the prosecution usually gives up. This process that I just described usually takes a year to complete. By then, the cop won't remember shite.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: I remember seeing somewhere . . .*



scottn2retro said:


> *and I'll have to look, but something on the internet or in a magazine about taking your chances in court for any traffic citation. A high percentage of the time, the officer does not show up. :dunno:
> 
> Try a Google search for 'beating a traffic ticket' *


From my numerous personal experiences with the CHP's in court, they ALWAYS show up. Something with that over time pay and all.:banghead:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Geico sucks anyway*

For us Pb Pedis folks, Geico is akin to the devil. This organization regularly donate speed enforcement equipment to local law enforcement agencies. And they contribute money to organizations in favor of lowering of the speed limit.

Geico is the devil.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Geico sucks anyway*



Stuka said:


> *Pb Pedis *


:lmao: :lmao:


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Listen to Stuka. Too much experience in these areas for me to question his tactics.

I also like his advice on asking permission to reach for license, etc.

My brother is a cop, and they would definitely like to know they will go home at the end of the shift. When they approach the vehicle, keep your hands up on the wheel where they can see them and tell what you are going to do and where you are going to reach for something.

I've been let off by numerous times just the giving the officers nothing to worry about (like getting shot) and cooperating when I've been pulled over.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

geomax said:


> *I shudder to think what it would be like to be bagged going 117mph by the Massachusetts State Police.
> 
> So far, I've managed to avoid that.... :bigpimp: *


Just stay clear of Dunkin Donuts @ 117. Once saw about a hundred staties off 93 in Somerville. Thought it was some big bust. In the center of it all ... a Dunkin Donuts. :lmao:


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: I remember seeing somewhere . . .*



Stuka said:


> *From my numerous personal experiences with the CHP's in court, they ALWAYS show up. Something with that over time pay and all.:banghead:
> 
> Andy
> 02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG *


Must be the fame and recognition they'll recieve for nailing "Stuka" - or is it Pb Pedis?  (Damn, nobody told me I needed Latin to mess around on b'fest.)

How about local police and court attendance?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Plaz said:


> *
> 
> wreckless = lack of a wreck = good
> reckless = dangerous = bad
> ...


oops... 

thanks for catching that.... haha


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *TWO POINTS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> :banghead: :bawling: :banghead: :bawling: :banghead: :bawling: :banghead: :bawling:
> 
> Cops can give you SEVEN points for that here in MD! :banghead: Total fines are well north of $1K, too. :banghead: *


What makes you think that points from State A are equal in value/severity to points from State B? They're not.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: I remember seeing somewhere . . .*



Stuka said:


> *
> 
> From my numerous personal experiences with the CHP's in court, they ALWAYS show up. Something with that over time pay and all.:banghead:
> 
> ...


I think it depends on where you got the ticket, what the cop's got going on during that time, and how much of a pain it would be for him to be worth it to come try and bust you in court....

A good friend of mine is a cop and he told me that there really is no reason for them not to show up. (In most cases that is...) According to him, they DO get over time... so it's not like they don't get anything for trying....


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## fuz (Feb 6, 2002)

Oh yah, stuka left out the part about sending in the not guilty plea (40519b) for a request of a trial by written declaration. You also need to send in the payment for bail at the same time (40902).

There is no standard form for requesting a trial by written declaration, so just write up a letter and send it in with your bail amount.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: I remember seeing somewhere . . .*



scottn2retro said:


> *
> 
> Must be the fame and recognition they'll recieve for nailing "Stuka" - or is it Pb Pedis?  (Damn, nobody told me I needed Latin to mess around on b'fest.)
> 
> How about local police and court attendance? *


From my uh, experiences, LAPD you have at least a 50/50 shot of them not showing up. CHP, forget it, they'll always be there.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*There's more where it came from*



fuz said:


> *Oh yah, stuka left out the part about sending in the not guilty plea for a request of a trial by written declaration (4059b). You also need to send in the payment for bail at the same time (40902).
> 
> There is no standard form for requesting a trial by written declaration, so just write up a letter and send it in with your bail amount. *


Yes, you need to enclose a check in the amount of your bail when you send in your trial by declaration.

And if you got nailed by radar for basic speed law (cvc 22350), go get a speed survey from Caltrans. If the survey wasn't done within the last 5 years, the radar evidence is NOT admissible.:thumbup: Case dismissed.:bigpimp: Be advised that 22350 is only good for you going less than 55 irregardless of the speed limit (eg. 55 in a 30).

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> *
> 
> What makes you think that points from State A are equal in value/severity to points from State B? They're not. *


True...

I should ask: How many points does it take to make you lose your license in CA? In MD, it's 8 for a suspension and 13 for revocation.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *
> 
> True...
> 
> I should ask: How many points does it take to make you lose your license in CA? In MD, it's 8 for a suspension and 13 for revocation. *


I can't remember, but I'm sure someone here can fill you in. IIRC, suspension (or a hearing with a possible suspension) came at 4 points in 12 months or 6 points in 24 months.


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## JT - '02 330i (Dec 29, 2001)

The over 100 thing in CA can be a major bummer. I'll do 99 but never faster unless I've got unlimited visiblity.

The section of the law is below. Note the section about license suspension. (Which if you get yours suspended is going to have SERIOUS impact on your insurance premium.)

22348. (a) Notwithstanding subdivision (b) of Section 22351, no
person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway with a speed limit
established pursuant to Section 22349 or 22356 at a speed greater
than that speed limit.
(b) Any person who drives a vehicle upon a highway at a speed
greater than 100 miles per hour is guilty of an infraction
punishable, as follows:
(1) Upon a first conviction of a violation of this subdivision, by
a fine of not to exceed five hundred dollars ($500). * The court may
also suspend the privilege of the person to operate a motor vehicle
for a period not to exceed 30 days pursuant to Section 13200.5. *
(2) Upon a conviction under this subdivision of an offense which
occurred within three years of a prior offense resulting in a
conviction of an offense under this subdivision, by a fine of not to
exceed five hundred dollars ($500). The person's privilege to
operate a motor vehicle shall be suspended by the Department of Motor
Vehicles pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 13355.
(3) Upon a conviction under this subdivision of an offense which
occurred within five years of two or more prior offenses resulting in
convictions of offenses under this subdivision, by a fine of not to
exceed five hundred dollars ($500). The person's privilege to operate
a motor vehicle shall be suspended by the Department of Motor
Vehicles pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 13355.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

OK, ouch. That's not really much better than over here. Except that it kicks in at 85 in MD, (20 over in a 65, 30 over in a 55) 

I rarely exceed 20 over the limit anywhere anymore. And within DC, I stay within 10 of it.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Geico sucks anyway*



Stuka said:


> *For us Pb Pedis folks, Geico is akin to the devil. This organization regularly donate speed enforcement equipment to local law enforcement agencies. And they contribute money to organizations in favor of lowering of the speed limit.
> 
> Geico is the devil.
> 
> ...


Interestingly, I was in Home Depot a few weeks ago, and I noticed that they don't rent their trucks to people with Geico insurance. That's kind of scary.


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: It never pays to be a smart a$$*



Plaz said:


> *
> 
> Sage advice, oh Oracle of Denny's.  :thumbup: *


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Actually, it is*



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *OK, ouch. That's not really much better than over here. Except that it kicks in at 85 in MD, (20 over in a 65, 30 over in a 55)
> 
> I rarely exceed 20 over the limit anywhere anymore. And within DC, I stay within 10 of it. *


And let's not even talk about People's Republic of Virginia, where 80mph is misdemeanor reckless driving.:banghead:

The up to 30 day suspension thing is up to the discretion of the court. Most of my friends who have hired lawyers for 22348b got about a grand in fine ($$ in place of license suspension, plus whatever they owe the lawyers) with no suspension. And the fact that it is an infraction and not misdemeanor really is a BIG DEAL. You do NOT want misdemeanor of any kind of your record. But infractions, most drivers got those.

Another guy I know who was convicted of going 140+ mph (also 22348b) got a grand in fine and one month suspension. And yes, only two points on his license, and no criminal conviction that 23103 brings. :thumbup: And he did this without a lawyer. And then there's Butthead "Mr. Out run them," but he's special.:angel:

Now, if you got 23103, this is big doodoo. If cited, they can arrest you and impound your car. If convicted, this gives you, misdemeanor conviction, one month max in jail, plus a grand in fine. This is bad stuff. So if you feel like going over 100, don't be stupid and do things that would make the cop give you 23103 instead of 22348b.

Let's be careful out there.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Eugie Baange (Sep 23, 2002)

Hey Michael!
Welcome back; *I* missed ya anyway

Busted on 5? Yes, that truly sucks.
Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances, yes, but it *still* sucks.
Coming back from Tehachapi a few weeks back, I didn't have the guts to go over ~90-100. Sure wanted too but... my wife's car, not mine :dunno:
Probably saved me.

Back when I was 19, I got nailed for an "over 90" on 280 by the lakes. They didn't arrest me but I had to appear; got 5 days in county. Ended up with 3 1/2 with time served and got to surrender myself for Easter Break rather than carted off in court. 

Don't think it would be quite the kick now that it was then.

To ease your pain... you should come out tosee us Friday night.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

SONET said:


> *
> anyone else starting to long for another DV run? :angel:
> 
> --SONET *


Somebody called me????


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

*Re: Stuka's point of view*



Stuka said:


> *
> Taking the above into account, it is quite easy to clock 3.5 to 4 hour lap time from LA to the Bay Area.
> *


Lap time, huh? :lmao: :lmao: Somebody missing the track already? :angel:


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

*Re: I am thankful that I live in CA*



Stuka said:


> *
> 
> If you get a speeding ticket in CA, here's what you do.
> 
> ...


Yeah, what he said! :thumbup: :bigpimp:


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

fuz said:


> *
> 
> There is no standard form for requesting a trial by written declaration *


Wrong. In CA, it is a form mandated by the Judicial Council (Form TR-205 as of 1/1/99). You can either print it off your computer if you have the necessary software or get it from the Court.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

*Re: Actually, it is*



Stuka said:


> *
> 
> And then there's Butthead "Mr. Out run them," but he's special.:angel:
> 
> *


Yeah, let's not talk about your "special friend" again! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## Michael330 (Apr 23, 2002)

Thanks for all the advice. Especially big gracias to Stuka. I had no idea it was so complicated. I guess I will try to fight it and see what happens. Sounds worse than immigration law. Anyway, I know I am the ONLY one to blame and I SHOULD HAVE known better. It's a given Moms and Dads out there. 
I absolutely agree that pissing off a cop and especially and American cop is the last thing you want to do. Acting submissive, polite and following orders is the only startegy. I had no idea about there being some sort of magical sound barrier at 100 that really screws you like that. What can you do...


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## Mashuri (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: I am thankful that I live in CA*



Stuka said:


> *
> 
> and not People's Republic of East Coast States. Here's something that'll make you eat your heart out.
> 
> ...


Great advice and you're absolutely right that the primary purpose of traffic enforcement is revenue. I suggest anyone who wants to beat the system to become a member of the NMA. Using their resources helped me beat a 40 over ticket (got it on the crotch rocket) last Summer. Stuka, I got the ticket dismissed because CHP completely failed to respond to my request for discovery. I know it depends on the judge but I'm getting copies of that case so I can site precedence next time. Wonder if there are any Appeals rulings on that as well...


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## Mashuri (Aug 14, 2002)

Hey Stuka, do you know about requesting your trial to be designated at the County Seat (which is Downtown L.A. for our us) while you're receiveing your ticket? I've read that the cop can deny this but, if you make sure he/she writes that you requested it on the ticket, the court clerk will most likely give it to you when you request it again. This will decrease the likeyhood of the cop(s) showing and will make sure he/she is dealing with an unfamiliar judge. :thumbup:


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## Patrick330i (Sep 30, 2002)

You guys are nuckin' futs! But this has been the best damn thread of the day!!!


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*County seat*



Mashuri said:


> *Hey Stuka, do you know about requesting your trial to be designated at the County Seat (which is Downtown L.A. for our us) while you're receiveing your ticket? I've read that the cop can deny this but, if you make sure he/she writes that you requested it on the ticket, the court clerk will most likely give it to you when you request it again. This will decrease the likeyhood of the cop(s) showing and will make sure he/she is dealing with an unfamiliar judge. :thumbup: *


doesn't really do that much. :thumbdwn: For LA County, the downtown court house on Grand will buy you time. The docket at that court house is pretty full, and chances are good that you'll get a comissioner.

However, do NOT count on CHP not showing up, they WILL show up. Follow all the other tactics outlined in this thread will give you a much better chance in beating the rap.

Oh and here comes the Stuka doesn't know shite about the cvc and the advice should be taken at one's own peril disclaimer.:bigpimp:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Michael330 (Apr 23, 2002)

*Re: I am thankful that I live in CA*



Stuka said:


> *
> 
> and not People's Republic of East Coast States. Here's something that'll make you eat your heart out.
> 
> ...


So I got 22348 B. They scheduled the court appearance for 12/12/02. It also says (on reverse) that if I contest the violation I can: a) have a court trial or b) trial by written declaration. In both cases I have to submit the bail amount. 
Now, is this declaration the same as not guilty plea that you describe or are these two different things? They also say that I will be given forms to provide my statement. Does that mean that they will mail it to me after I submit declaration and bail? Is there anything I can lose by chosing this way on top of what I would pay now?


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: I am thankful that I live in CA*



Mashuri said:


> *
> 
> Great advice and you're absolutely right that the primary purpose of traffic enforcement is revenue. I suggest anyone who wants to beat the system to become a member of the NMA. Using their resources helped me beat a 40 over ticket (got it on the crotch rocket) last Summer. Stuka, I got the ticket dismissed because CHP completely failed to respond to my request for discovery. I know it depends on the judge but I'm getting copies of that case so I can site precedence next time. Wonder if there are any Appeals rulings on that as well... *


If you don't mind, could you list the court and the docket number? I would love to get my hands on that case as a precedence in court. Uh, huh huh, People of State of California vs. Mashuri.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :angel:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Mashuri (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: I am thankful that I live in CA*



Stuka said:


> *
> 
> If you don't mind, could you list the court and the docket number? I would love to get my hands on that case as a precedence in court. Uh, huh huh, People of State of California vs. Mashuri.:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :angel:
> 
> ...


I have it buried somewhere at work. I'll try to remember and get it for ya. People vs. Mashuri may save the day! 

The County Seat thing may work well against LAPD though. I know CHP shows up. They're docked a day's pay if they don't, as I understand it.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: I am thankful that I live in CA*



Michael330 said:


> *
> 
> So I got 22348 B. They scheduled the court appearance for 12/12/02. It also says (on reverse) that if I contest the violation I can: a) have a court trial or b) trial by written declaration. In both cases I have to submit the bail amount.
> Now, is this declaration the same as not guilty plea that you describe or are these two different things? They also say that I will be given forms to provide my statement. Does that mean that they will mail it to me after I submit declaration and bail? Is there anything I can lose by chosing this way on top of what I would pay now? *


I suggest that you read this book from cover to cover, then post any question that you might have:

Fight Your TIcket and Win ISBN 0-87337-391-X

Oh and when mailing stuff to the court and the CHP, ALWAYS use FedEx (or registered mail), that way, you know who signed for your docs. Should they beceom inexlicably lost.:banghead:

Good luck.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Michael330 said:


> *I guess I will try to fight it and see what happens.*


One thing that I haven't seen mentioned here...

By fighting it and having the trial as far off in the future as possible, you minimize the time that that a conviction (if you are ultimately convicted) will count against you WRT insurance. There is a limit to how long you can be surcharged for an offense, and the clock starts ticking on the day of the offense. They can't use it in setting your rates until after you are convicted, though.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: It never pays to be a smart a$$*



Stuka said:


> *Like I said in my other post, pissing of the man with a badge and a gun never works to your advantage. Your smart a$$ "driving" comment was probably what made him decide to take you for a ride with all the vehicle codes that his feeble brain could muster on you.
> 
> I have been pulled over for going 90 in a 65 and been let go. I didn't use any special favors, all I did was acknowleging the cop's power by telling him that 'You are absolutely right, I should be more careful." And doing all the things that put his mind at ease, like asking for permission before reaching for my license, which was in my pocket. Once they feel like they are in control of the situation, you are already one their good side. Just acknowledge whatever else they said as right and that you were in the wrong. That's how I got out of my 90 in a 65.
> 
> ...


This is THE best advice I've read in a long time :thumbup:

Like Andy, when I get pulled over I acknowledge to the Police officer that I was wrong plus I know when an officer is approaching a car he never knows who or what is inside that car so his adreneline is going pretty fast so I do my best to let him know that he IS IN control.

When I got pulled over last time (about 10 yrs ago) I was going 77 in a 55 in my White Corvette and the State Trooper let me go which is almost unheard of here in Long Island.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Michael330 said:


> *Arrest you for speeding??? Man, this is insane. I miss Europe. Each time they would pull me over, you just give them half of what the ticket would be worth, they pocket it and you are on your way. *


Uhh, that does work in Russia, Latvia, sometimes in Poland and possibly in Lithuania (I have donated money to their "speeding funds"). The rest of "Europe", no way!

Were you driving 117 MILES PER HOUR, or km/h?

I haven't read all 58 posts in this thread, so maybe that was covered already. 

Good luck with your insurance company!

Patrick


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

First check the points you will be losing and if you will receive a suspension... 117 MPH sounds like a big points hit and your insurance company will raise your rates.

You may want to consider hiring a lawyer who is familiar with your court prosecutors and judges. The advantages to hiring a lawyer is he will help you get through all the paperwork, he knows the prosecutors. Most courts do not want to go to the expense of a jury trail and and may offer you a reduced violation.

Don't count on a CHP not showing up for court... the only way you will win this strategy is if the cop quits or is suspended.

Be aware of lawyer costs... the longer you go into the legal proceedings the more money it will cost.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Michael330 said:


> *Arrest you for speeding??? Man, this is insane. I miss Europe. Each time they would pull me over, you just give them half of what the ticket would be worth, they pocket it and you are on your way.*


Hmm, not in Germany


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Nate's nightmare?*

:yikes:


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

In the above picture, isn't 167 about where Stuka's electronic speed limiter kicks in?


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## Michael330 (Apr 23, 2002)

Patrick 320d said:


> *
> 
> Uhh, that does work in Russia, Latvia, sometimes in Poland and possibly in Lithuania (I have donated money to their "speeding funds"). The rest of "Europe", no way!
> 
> ...


It worked for me in Italy and France...
It was 117 mph


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## Michael330 (Apr 23, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> *
> 
> Hmm, not in Germany  *


I drove around Europe almost everywhere except for Spain/Portugal and Scandinavia and Germans are by far the best drivers. They drive fast but everyone seems to know what is expected of him/her on the road. I felt really safe on the autobahn.


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

Michael330 said:


> *He got me doing 117 MPH on HWY 5... ...I hope I can do some traffic school to not get a point (would be my first ever).*


Damn, count yourself lucky dude. :yikes: 117 MPH here in Ohio = Jail Time.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: Re: Chp Sucks!!!*



GimpyMcFarlan said:


> *
> 
> Damn, count yourself lucky dude. :yikes: 117 MPH here in Ohio = Jail Time. *


Lucky? :dunno:

Minimum $500 fine
30 day license suspension
Points toward increased insurance rates

Getting bagged by the CHP in your Bimmer @ 117. *PRICE-EEEEEEEEEE* 

This kind of luck no one needs.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Chp Sucks!!!*



ObD said:


> *
> 
> Lucky? :dunno:
> 
> ...


You cannot fully appreciate how Draconian the traffic codes are on the East Coast without having driven there. In many Midwestern and East Coast states, merely exceeding a hundred, sometimes 80 would result in mandatory booking of your a$$. And let's not even talk about all dem Bubbas hiding in the buashes running radar traps.

At least in CA we have separate vehicle codes to choose from. And one of them is infraction even (22348b), whereas in those People's Republic states, your only choice of vehicle code dealing with excessive speed usually falls under misdemeanor offense. You do NOT want ANY misdemeanor conviction on your record, period, end of story.:yikes:

As for license suspension, it is NOT automatic. If you bargain with the court (lawyers are more effective at doing this than you), you could usually exchange $$ for suspension. Like say, paying double the mandated fine in exchange for 0 day license suspension.

It is expensive. But as the saying goes, You gotta pay to play.:bigpimp:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

Don't know when you last drove in the Northeast, but it ain't like it used to be. I've hardly ever run into radar traps on an interstate lately even during the peak holiday enforcement times. If you don't drive over the speed limit, you get run over. Many times I'm in the right lane doing 80 and get passed standing still. I know in PA that they cut down on the number of staties because they couldn't afford to pay them. 80 is about my comfort level on public roads. Cruising @ 117 ain't for me. :angel:


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## Michael330 (Apr 23, 2002)

Thanks again Stuka and everyone else for pointing me to the right sources. Just for the record, I think the currently selling book is "Fight Your Ticket in California" by D.W. Brown Attorney ISBN 0-87337-770-2. This is the same author as "Fight your ticket and win" but that book is out of print and the new one I think has everything and is targeting CA law in particular. I am half way through it (slow day at work as you can see) and it is great. Traffic law is full of technicalities and choosing the right path of action (as any law I suppose). It is actually a very interesting and very clearly presented read and fun to see how basic American law concepts are reflected in case of minor infractions such as speeding: right to speedy trial, right to examine evidence against you etc etc. Really well written book. I suggest everyone reads it before they decide to SPEED. I can't claim "speed trap" thing unfortunately but there are other options available in my case. I will keep everyone posted in this thread what my steps are and what results from it for other people's future benefit. 
It's actually very interesting and would be fun to study if I wasn't the subject myself. I must have missed my calling. Law seems more cynical than business (I've always been attracted to cynical women and professions.)
Anyway, it's interesting to notice that we ourselves gave away our right to privacy at some point by letting our insurers check our DMV records. If there was someone or some civil rights goup there who would oppose this practice at the very begining when one of the companies came up with the idea, we would have been in a very different place right now.


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## NewBmwGuy (Sep 19, 2002)

Michael330 said:


> *Anyway, it's interesting to notice that we ourselves gave away our right to privacy at some point by letting our insurers check our DMV records. If there was someone or some civil rights goup there who would oppose this practice at the very begining when one of the companies came up with the idea, we would have been in a very different place right now. *


Think of it this way, if you have a good driving record, your rates are lowered. If you have a poor driving record (read risk), then your rates are higher. It's a matter of spreading the risk. If you are one of those with a "poor" driving record, then you want the risk spread as much as possible. If you are one of those with an excellent driving record, then you don't want to be thrown in the same risk-pool as those with bad records. How do you reconcile this? You don't, I don't think. My rates are lower, hopefully, because of the assigned risk pool that I find myself in. If my insurance company won't give me a good deal, then they know I'll go somewhere else and find a better deal.

It's too bad that you face the possibility of having your rates significantly rise on you because you were excessively speeding on the 5 in the Central Valley. Our traffic laws suck here. A way to even out the risk in this kind of scenario is to have an autobahn system. Unfortunately, we are so far away from such a system, that it'll likely never come to pass in this country. An arbitrary speed limit on an open highway is useless. I guess we can't be trusted as motorists to judge the conditions of the road and drive in a manner commensurate with such conditions. In Germany, the motorist is empowered to do this on the autobahn, but is EXPECTED to obey all rules of the road. There is no speeding on surface roads off of die bahn. Red light cameras abound. We just don't have it figured out!


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## Chipster (Dec 23, 2001)

Michael330 said:


> *
> 
> Had a meeting to come back to. I really don't see your point. It was an open road and I don't see how 117 is different than 85. Where does negligtence begin and who decides about it. Some burocrat who put arbitrary limit back in a day when cars could go only as fast? Or how about some jerk who swerves from lane to lane without either bothering to put a turn signal? Talk about negligence... *


For what it's worth, I feel safe in my Bimmer at 90 than my Toyota pick up at 55. The Bimmer has 6 airbags, Toyota has 2. Bimmer has low profile performance tires, Toyota 31" all terrain tires. Bimmer has DSC that controls throttle & brakes in an emergency. Toyota has me. Bimmer has anti lock brakes, Toyota has me. Based solely on the performance of the 2 vehicles how can they say xx speed is unsafe.

Also, great CHP story. The son of a woman I work with went to the CHP office to get a fix it ticket signed off. The officer signed off the ticket, but on the spot wrote him another ticket for something else! How chicken sh!t is that!


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Very True... a BMW at 90 mph with its superior handling, brakes, and safety features... is probably safer than 75% of the other vehicles on the road doing 65 mph.


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## invisiguard (Nov 5, 2002)

This has worked for me twice now, straight from my brother-in-law at the CHP, push the court date off as long as possible. You can get a good 2-3 months between your ticket and your arraignment. When you go in plead not guilty and request trial by declaration. This is where you and the cop get sent a form to fill out with your sides of the case and send them in for the judge to decide. The beauty here is that whereas a cop gets paid to walk into court, say a few words and split, now he has to find time to sit around and fill out some more damn paper work on something as trivial as a speeding ticket. Further, cops write a half dozen tickets a day, if youve stalled long enough hes almost surely forgotten the details, or the ticket altogether! Court dates are noted to departments and are not mandatory but cops are "expected" to show up, but they dont keep track of these declaration forms that get sent to them so they usually just get tossed. Good luck!:thumbup:


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## shahin (Feb 23, 2002)

i think its all about how you act towards the officer. I got a 80 in a 55 zone, cost me 130 and traffic school. I was actualy clocked at 95 in a 50. I was completely honest about speeding and told him it was irresponsible. Im only 19 too, usually cops are harder when they see young guys in m3.


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