# Why is european delivery still widely unknown or unpopular??



## 2nynbak (Jan 28, 2007)

TheGuest said:


> this is the best!


It's a car foolish, I'm driving back.


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

bimmer_fam said:


> No ED on X5, as it's made here...


As an alternative, you can do a performance center delivery (PCD) in Spartanburg.:thumbup:

Cheers


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

One of the local dealers/CA advertise ED in the local paper and call it "Factory Delivery". :dunno:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

LDV330i said:


> One of the local dealers/CA advertise ED in the local paper and call it "Factory Delivery". :dunno:


I´m not sure what the problem with that is. :dunno: Besides factory delivery, it´s also called Tourist Delivery.

Please clarify.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

Jspira said:


> I´m not sure what the problem with that is. :dunno: Besides factory delivery, it´s also called Tourist Delivery.
> 
> Please clarify.


I found it strange that they would not use the "official" BMWUSA term for it.


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## dave_ee (Apr 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Because car buying in the U.S. is a right-here, right-now experience.


Well put! We're a "now-now-now!" culture.

I think another reason may be that doing ED makes it difficult (impossible?) to trade a car in, since you have to pay for your new car 2+ months before it's in your driveway. I wonder how people usually get around that? What about all the people who trade leases and do ED?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

dave_ee said:


> Well put! We're a "now-now-now!" culture.


Indeed. In fact, in my book (Managing the Knowledge Workforce) I traced this phenomenon back to the first days of Federal Express in 1973. Prior to that, when you needed it absolutely positively the next day, well - no one thought in those terms.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

LDV330i said:


> I found it strange that they would not use the "official" BMWUSA term for it.


True, true.

While ,,European Delivery`` is the current term, perhaps the dealer has been around for a while when ,,Factory Delivery`` and ,,Tourist Delivery`` were more prevalent.

Just a guess. Or maybe not.


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## Calif65GM (Mar 27, 2005)

LDV330i said:


> I found it strange that they would not use the "official" BMWUSA term for it.


I actually think "factory delivery" makes more sense than "European Delivery". Factory is Germany. "European Delivery" sounds like anywhere in Europe.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Calif65GM said:


> I actually think "factory delivery" makes more sense than "European Delivery". Factory is Germany. "European Delivery" sounds like anywhere in Europe.


Indeed. But referencing ,,Tourist Delivery`` what were they actually delivering? :rofl:


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## clarkcc1 (Jan 23, 2007)

dave_ee said:


> Well put! We're a "now-now-now!" culture.
> 
> I think another reason may be that doing ED makes it difficult (impossible?) to trade a car in, since you have to pay for your new car 2+ months before it's in your driveway. I wonder how people usually get around that? What about all the people who trade leases and do ED?


by "trade leases" I guess you mean end one lease and start an ED lease? In my case my current E46 lease is up in August. I am signing my new lease and making first pmt tomorrow. I expect re-delivery middle of july or earlier (being East Coast). I will sell my current leased car person-to-person and pocket at least a grand. I might rent a car from Enterprise short term if need be.

I'm guessing most try and time new ED re-delivery with lease end of "old" vehicle, and perhaps have 1 to 2 months with 2 car payments?


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

TheGuest said:


> Also, most of us do not want to wait. ...


Bingo.


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## the_fox (Jul 6, 2006)

Jspira said:


> Indeed. But referencing ,,Tourist Delivery`` what were they actually delivering? :rofl:


"Tourist Delivery"? My dealership is almost an hour away, so I almost qualify as a "tourist" just driving there


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

Calif65GM said:


> I actually think "factory delivery" makes more sense than "European Delivery". Factory is Germany. "European Delivery" sounds like anywhere in Europe.


The X3 is manufactured/assembled in Austria. 

Factory delivery is an 100% accurate term since you do not pick up at the factory. In fact your car may have not been manufactured in Munich.


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## mrEcho (Jan 29, 2007)

yea the whole, "i want it now" makes sense. but then i think so many ppl end up picking a car off the lot that doesn't always have their ideal options or color. so i guess ppl are willing to compromise one way or another to get it NOW. :dunno:


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## midlife (May 10, 2007)

new to bimmerfest and ED:
BEFORE i contact some ED dealears:
1/ I am thinking about ED for a 335I convertible, my guess is approx $1,000 over ED price of $42,000 is that about right? 
2/ BUT instead, if i take south carolina performance center delivery, would price be based on ED delivery cost + profit or U.S. point of entry cost? if it is based on U.S. entry cost what is the difference of just getting it from the dealer?


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## DavidNY (Feb 18, 2006)

midlife said:


> new to bimmerfest and ED:
> BEFORE i contact some ED dealears:
> 1/ I am thinking about ED for a 335I convertible, my guess is approx $1,000 over ED price of $42,000 is that about right?
> 2/ BUT instead, if i take south carolina performance center delivery, would price be based on ED delivery cost + profit or U.S. point of entry cost? if it is based on U.S. entry cost what is the difference of just getting it from the dealer?


why in the world are you posting your question in the midst of a discussion on why euro. delivery is still widely unknown? :dunno:


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## bagbklyn (Apr 28, 2006)

monacoblu said:


> So true...I've gotten the same reactions from people. Recently, a friend of mine asked me to explain to her again how this works a month after she had dropped the issue. On the other hand, I have also had a number of people express excitement and enthusiasm about this.


I think this thread has to be changed to what is the weirdest comment you have heard from people when you tell them that you are planning on picking up your vehicle in Germany or that you just came back.

I have two:

(1) What is going to happen with the emissions standards, are they going to change all the instruments and setting back to the American standard?

(2) You are not going to save on taxes when it comes you will have to pay additional import taxes, plus how do you setup purchasing it; isnt there a language barrier?

IGNORANCE IS BLISS!!!


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## GOFASTR (Apr 13, 2007)

LDV330i said:


> One of the local dealers/CA advertise ED in the local paper and call it "Factory Delivery". :dunno:


One reason is that Americans may be more familiar with the concept of "Factory Delivery"; for example, you can view your own Corvette being manufactured, and then take delivery of it across the street from the factory at the National Corvette Museum.:thumbup:

Or, they may just have it wrong:rofl:


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## GOFASTR (Apr 13, 2007)

bagbklyn said:


> I think this thread has to be changed to what is the weirdest comment you have heard from people when you tell them that you are planning on picking up your vehicle in Germany or that you just came back.
> 
> I have two:
> 
> ...


OR:

"Isn't it going to be hard to drive in America with the steering wheel on the wrong side?"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

For a one word answer, just say "Autobahn."


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## johnc_22 (Sep 14, 2004)

dave_ee said:


> Well put! We're a "now-now-now!" culture.
> 
> I think another reason may be that doing ED makes it difficult (impossible?) to trade a car in, since you have to pay for your new car 2+ months before it's in your driveway. I wonder how people usually get around that? What about all the people who trade leases and do ED?


I used to be more impulsive and "now now now" when younger, but now that I actually make a decent living, and due to the vast resources on the internet, I tend to research any major purchase to death. I lurked here for probably 2 months before finally deciding "screw it" I'm single with plenty of paid time off each year and there's no reason NOT to do this (well other than cars are a bad investment but I'm gonna drive something either way).

As far as dealing with a trade in, I didn't. I'm still driving my old car and meanwhile trying to sell it. If I get fed up it will go to CarMax. SAABs are so heavily discounted when new it's difficult to sell a used one. If I had a large 2 car garage I would probably mod the heck out of it but one car at a time is enough for me at this point.


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## midlife (May 10, 2007)

DavidNY said:


> why in the world are you posting your question in the midst of a discussion on why euro. delivery is still widely unknown? :dunno:


sorry guys, a bit new to blogging, and your bimmerfest site.
working on a first ED order - too excited - and got sidetracjked


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## griffmac (Sep 29, 2006)

mrEcho said:


> "well, but you have to pay for importing tax right?"
> "well, but you have to pay for shipping right?"
> "you saved $xxxx.00 on the car?! dude you're a liar...i hate you!"
> "i don't understand what you are doing, but i think you're getting ripped off!"
> ...


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## TheGuest (Apr 11, 2007)

johnc_22 said:


> I used to be more impulsive and "now now now" when younger, but now that I actually make a decent living, and due to the vast resources on the internet, I tend to research any major purchase to death. I lurked here for probably 2 months before finally deciding "screw it" I'm single with plenty of paid time off each year and there's no reason NOT to do this (well other than cars are a bad investment but I'm gonna drive something either way).
> 
> As far as dealing with a trade in, I didn't. I'm still driving my old car and meanwhile trying to sell it. If I get fed up it will go to CarMax. SAABs are so heavily discounted when new it's difficult to sell a used one. If I had a large 2 car garage I would probably mod the heck out of it but one car at a time is enough for me at this point.


+1


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## the_fox (Jul 6, 2006)

GOFASTR said:


> OR:
> 
> "Isn't it going to be hard to drive in America with the steering wheel on the wrong side?"
> 
> :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


That one is a classic; it's amazing how many Americans think that UK/Ireland driving rules apply to the entire Europe. :rofl:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

the_fox said:


> That one is a classic; it's amazing how many Americans think that UK/Ireland driving rules apply to the entire Europe. :rofl:


Well, the change to RHD in Europe is much more recent than people think. Sweden and Iceland only changed to RHD in the 1960s and Austria only changed after the Anschluß.

The division between RHD and LHD had a lot to do with which countries Napoléon conquered. Those which resisted Napoléon stayed with LHD.

In addition, current LHD countries are far more than UK and Ireland. These include Australia and South Africa, Japan and Hong Kong, Jamaica and the Bahamas (just off the top of my head) but there are dozens more.


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## the_fox (Jul 6, 2006)

Jspira said:


> In addition, current LHD countries are far more than UK and Ireland. These include Australia and South Africa, Japan and Hong Kong, Jamaica and the Bahamas (just off the top of my head) but there are dozens more.


Yes, but the countries you listed are not in Europe. In fact, there is NO country on mainland Europe where you (legally) drive on the left side, and that is the misconception that many people have. Also, the Napoleon story is mostly an urban legend, without much factual data to support it.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

the_fox said:


> Yes, but the countries you listed are not in Europe. In fact, there is NO country on mainland Europe where you (legally) drive on the left side, and that is the misconception that many people have. Also, the Napoleon story is mostly an urban legend, without much factual data to support it.


First, I was just trying to explain why some people, esp. those who don´t travel much, have a skewed perception of the world outside of their own little patch of earth.

You overlook the European countries I did mention (Sweden and Iceland) which did switch from LHD to RHD relatively recently (i.e. many many people are still alive who were alive when they switched).

Regarding the Napoléon story, I think you severely underestimate the anti-Napoléonic feelings harbored by many occupied nations. These feelings would be enough to account for this. Also, while you may regard this as urban legend, I have heard this from at least two of my Austrian professors of history. I would wager that they would be in a better position than others to judge whether a story is true or legend.


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## Gran Turismo (Aug 7, 2006)

With a few exceptions like Japan, most RHD countries today are former British colonies.


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## Jalli (Jan 10, 2005)

Not buying the anti-Napoleonic thing..any history professor who tries to sell you that as a primary reason is smoking something..


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Jalli said:


> Not buying the anti-Napoleonic thing..any history professor who tries to sell you that as a primary reason is smoking something..


and your qualifications in this area are? :dunno:


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## the_fox (Jul 6, 2006)

Jspira said:


> You overlook the European countries I did mention (Sweden and Iceland) which did switch from LHD to RHD relatively recently (i.e. many many people are still alive who were alive when they switched).
> 
> Regarding the Napoléon story, I think you severely underestimate the anti-Napoléonic feelings harbored by many occupied nations. These feelings would be enough to account for this. Also, while you may regard this as urban legend, I have heard this from at least two of my Austrian professors of history. I would wager that they would be in a better position than others to judge whether a story is true or legend.


I'm not following you. By your logic, if those anti-Napoleonic feelings were so strong, then most of the conquered Europe should have been driving on the left side, to spite Napoleon. 

And you mentioned 2 countries out of 50+ which switched in the 60's. Most of Europe switched way before WWII. And unfortunately, many times this "skewed perception" comes from the younger generations, not those "still alive" older generations, as you are implying. Stop making excuses for their ignorance. :nono:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

the_fox said:


> And you mentioned 2 countries out of 50+ which switched in the 60's. Most of Europe switched way before WWII. And unfortunately, many times this "skewed perception" comes from the younger generations, not those "still alive" older generations, as you are implying. Stop making excuses for their ignorance. :nono:


I´m not making excuses. This long stopped being an ,,excuse`` discussion (to me) and was more of a philosophical ,,why some countries drive on a particular side``. I don´t think there´s any excuse for people not knowing that Europe drives on the same side of the road as Yanks do.



the_fox said:


> I'm not following you. By your logic, if those anti-Napoleonic feelings were so strong, then most of the conquered Europe should have been driving on the left side, to spite Napoleon.


Sorry if this was not clear. Here is a more precise example. Part of Austria drove on the left, part on the right. The dividing line was precisely the area affected by Napoléon in 1805. And I mean precisely. Napoléon forced his conquests to drive on the right.


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## the_fox (Jul 6, 2006)

Gran Turismo said:


> With a few exceptions like Japan, most RHD countries today are former British colonies.


You may be correct. And those countries that are not former colonies were either heavy trade partners of the UK or just happen to be geographically in the vicinity of one. Or they happen to be islands, so driving one way or another made no difference.

It's interesting to note another theory on the beginnings of this custom: from the middle ages, when noblemen were horseback riding, they would keep to the left of the road in order to have their right hand ready to meet and greet incoming noblemen, either with a handshake or with the sword, as deemed necessary. The fact that we always handshake with our right hand supports this theory.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Another story is that the French Revolution helped out here. Prior to the revolution, the aristocracy travelled on the left. The peasants were forced to travel on the right. After the storming of the Bastille and other events, the aristocracy tried to blend in and joined the peasant folk on the right. 

RH travel became law in Paris shortly thereafter.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

midlife said:


> sorry guys, a bit new to blogging


This isn´t a blog :dunno:


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

530ir1150r said:


> I actually got into a debate with a Jaguar salesman at a car show who was trying to tell someone that you have to pay VAT taxes and shipping on competitors ED cars. Jaguar does not have a ED program. So one more reason people do not know or trust ED information is the spreading of misinformation by competitors.


You're a sucker if you believe what a car salesman tells you about the car they're trying to sell you. You're the suckiest sucker who ever was suckered if you believe what that salesman tells you about the competitor's car.


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## the_fox (Jul 6, 2006)

Jspira said:


> This isn´t a blog :dunno:


You could call this forum "a blog of the ED collective". Once assimilated, there is no escape: you *will* do ED and then write all about it here!


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## flyga3 (May 8, 2007)

Jspira said:


> Well, the change to RHD in Europe is much more recent than people think. Sweden and Iceland only changed to RHD in the 1960s and Austria only changed after the Anschluß.
> 
> 
> > Just want to clarify, you are saying "RHD", as in you drive on the right side, not RHD of the car? Because I know with 100% certainty that Sweden drives on the right side of the road, with a LHD car (just like the US).


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## BigAlI (Apr 14, 2007)

*... because of lack of PU date timeliness?*



mrEcho said:


> So I've only been a member of this forum for a few months. I took delivery of my 335i coupe in Munich in April and the trip was fantastic, albeit very short. I still managed to save quite a bit. The free trip would be worth the wait alone.
> 
> Anyhow, when i tell friends and coworkers what i've done, some of the biggest misconceptions that come back are...
> "well, but you have to pay for importing tax right?"
> ...


One of the real reasons for ED "unpopularity" may be the uncertainty involved in nailing down a delivery date. I pre-reserved in late March for a mid-September pick-up. Not only has the pick-up date NOT been confirmed, but now there are horror stories on other threads about September ED pick-ups being out of the question for convertibles. Frankly, if people pre-reserve six motnhs in advance, are told that a September date would be 'No problem" (but no confirmation is forthcoming), and then three months later are told "can't be done", then the ED program deserves a bad rep --- for not being timely. Overall, the program is fantastic, travel, value, and CAs can't be beat. The one down side is advance planning (for customer, as well as BMW) and lack of timely response. Either a PU date is available or it isn't; obviously, production numbers can only be given a month or so in advance of production, but pick-up dates should be confirmable within a week or two of pre-reservation.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

BigAlI said:


> One of the real reasons for ED "unpopularity" may be the uncertainty involved in nailing down a delivery date. I pre-reserved in late March for a mid-September pick-up. Not only has the pick-up date NOT been confirmed, but now there are horror stories on other threads about September ED pick-ups being out of the question for convertibles. Frankly, if people pre-reserve six motnhs in advance, are told that a September date would be 'No problem" (but no confirmation is forthcoming), and then three months later are told "can't be done", then the ED program deserves a bad rep --- for not being timely. Overall, the program is fantastic, travel, value, and CAs can't be beat. The one down side is advance planning (for customer, as well as BMW) and lack of timely response. Either a PU date is available or it isn't; obviously, production numbers can only be given a month or so in advance of production, but pick-up dates should be confirmable within a week or two of pre-reservation.


While this is a problem, it is a relatively new one.


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## gjwilson (Apr 28, 2007)

Northcar said:


> For a one word answer, just say "Autobahn."


But according to my BMW manual, you have to keep it under 160 kph for the first 1000 km


(I guess that's under 100 mph for the first 600 miles, IICC)


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## BigAlI (Apr 14, 2007)

Tanning machine said:


> While this is a problem, it is a relatively new one.


Granted. Point well taken.  But probelm can get larger, become major, and create "ill-will" if not resolved sooner, rather than later. It may also be symptomatic of something more intractable: a different mind-set across the pond.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

flyga3 said:


> Jspira said:
> 
> 
> > Well, the change to RHD in Europe is much more recent than people think. Sweden and Iceland only changed to RHD in the 1960s and Austria only changed after the Anschluß.
> ...


I meant the change to LHD. Good catch.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

My 530i manual said 4,500 rpm. In 6th gear, you're well above 100mph.



gjwilson said:


> But according to my BMW manual, you have to keep it under 160 kph for the first 1000 km
> 
> 
> (I guess that's under 100 mph for the first 600 miles, IICC)


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## bimmerguy288 (Feb 28, 2006)

Drive on left side of the road in Macau too ( used to be under Portugese control but now part of China). It's overtaking Las Vegas in gaming $$$.


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm one of the unlucky people caught in the "sorry, what you thought was a deal really isn't - the cars are all gone" scenario. And while it's not the end of the world for me, I can see how a lot of people could wind up very resentful and maybe even anti-BMW for a long time. 

As to the original topic, I think that there are a number of reasons more people don't gravitate to European delivery for the manufacturers who do offer it. I think the list includes BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, Saab, and maybe Porsche. 

First off, the manufacturers don't promote it heavily, because at the end of the day, it takes a sale away from their dealers.

Secondly, as easy as some manufacturers like Volvo make it, it's still not as straightforward or maybe more accurately, TANGIBLE as buying a car off the dealer's lot, which isi the way most people acquire their new cars. So that's probably off-putting for a lot of people.

And then, there's the planning factor. Buying a car via ED takes a lot of planning and detail-wrangling. And since in my experience, people don't know what they're going to be doing five days ahead, so working five months in the future is just beyond them. 

And finally as someone pointed out above, we live in an instant-gratification society and ED is the polar opposite of instant gratification.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

Jspira said:


> Quote:
> 
> *******>********>*******>********>*******>********>
> Originally Posted by *midlife*
> ...


Just proves his point that he's new to this whole internet forum chat thing. I've been there too (and I am still learning.) Keep reading and posting *midlife. *You'll get the hang of it soon enough. Good luck in your quest for a fantastic European Delivery of your new bimmer. :thumbup:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

boothguy said:


> First off, the manufacturers don't promote it heavily, because at the end of the day, it takes a sale away from their dealers.


Au contraire. It doesn't take away sales, it gives the dealers more cars to sell.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

I don't think it takes sales away from dealers.

In fact, many unknowing ED customers pay full ED list because some dealers often proclaim that the discount is already given to the customer by BMW directly, and that BMWNA offers only a small handling fee to the dealer.

In truth, the dealer gets the same markup as a domestically delivered car without any of the flooring costs, inventory risks, MACO fees etc. I believe that the dealer loses only the CSI money.

Thankfully, the Internet has leveled the playing field somewhat, but many people who take advantage of the ED deal don't have all the facts and figures posted on this website.

Porsche, btw, charges a _premium_ for ED. The nerve!



boothguy said:


> I'm one of the unlucky people caught in the "sorry, what you thought was a deal really isn't - the cars are all gone" scenario. And while it's not the end of the world for me, I can see how a lot of people could wind up very resentful and maybe even anti-BMW for a long time.
> 
> As to the original topic, I think that there are a number of reasons more people don't gravitate to European delivery for the manufacturers who do offer it. I think the list includes BMW, Volvo, Mercedes, Saab, and maybe Porsche.
> 
> ...


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

Another point to consider....many people are afraid to drive their new car in an unfamiliar place. Fear is a powerful detractor

While I understand all about the insurance etc. Most of the comments I get when I tell people what I will be doing is a response about the fear of being in a wreck with some "crazy <insert-your-favorite-country-here> driver"

While you could just as easily get into accident going home from the dealer here in the USA, many people feel uncomfortable with unfamiliar places.

For many, when they hear "Germany" they automatically put up the language barrier sign.

Fear is a strong factor for many.

Time is another factor -- given how little vacation time many people have and how many Americans use less than half of their allotted vacation, it all seems to be a hassle.

From my own experience, people whom I talk to who are of European decent seem to be most open to going to Germany to pick up the car.


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## mrEcho (Jan 29, 2007)

human and animal nature to fear the unknown.

yea i guess the other assumption is that ppl MUST take a ~2+ wk vacation. I did ED with 4 days/3 nights in Germany ..i still managed to put on 500 miles on the car (or shoot, was that km since i was in a foreign country?? ...j/k)


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

Jspira and RobertA - you're right of course. What I should have said was "..takes away a full price, high-profit sale from dealers". 

I think the other thought posted above is a good one too: the language barrier. I'm lucky enough to have an ear for languages and I'm not afraid to stumble my way through a verbal exchange with a local in their language to get whatever information I might need. Since ED sort of implies an independent (non-shepherded) travel itinerary, it may be too scary for lots of folks to contemplate.


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## clarkcc1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Pedal2Floor said:


> Another point to consider....many people are afraid to drive their new car in an unfamiliar place. Fear is a powerful detractor
> 
> While I understand all about the insurance etc. Most of the comments I get when I tell people what I will be doing is a response about the fear of being in a wreck with some "crazy <insert-your-favorite-country-here> driver"
> 
> ...


Let's face it, ignorance is bliss. A large majority of Americans haven't left the country, let alone even possess passports. To even seriously consider ED, one must have a few traits- sense of adventure (even if minimal and dont want to test speed limiter on autobahn), aren't in the mindset "my job comes first. My life revolves around my work" (rant- I dont understand people who think this way. Take a f*#(ing vacation! not taking time off is not only unhealthy but shows you have no backbone, letting a company rule your life) and willingness to learn new things (new process of how ED works, perhaps a little of the German language, etc.)

That said, this cuts out a HUUGGEEE portion of the American public, let alone the demographic interested in purchasing BMWs. Their loss, my gain! :bigpimp:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

boothguy said:


> Jspira and RobertA - you're right of course. What I should have said was "..takes away a full price, high-profit sale from dealers".


 Just to clarify further, that's not true either. European Delivery adds customers to BMW who might not otherwise purchase BMWs.

This specifically references how European Delivery brings people into the fold, not repeat sales.

European Delivery was created to create brand awareness and loyalty to the marque. It does that very well - that's why, 40 years later, the program is still around.


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

Gran Turismo said:


> With a few exceptions like Japan, most RHD countries today are former British colonies.


Montserrat is a current British colony where they drive on the left, unlike Gibraltar, where they drive on the right.

Yes, this is taking our love of trivia to new heights.


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## GOFASTR (Apr 13, 2007)

Jspira said:


> Just to clarify further, that's not true either. *European Delivery adds customers to BMW who might not otherwise purchase BMWs. *
> This specifically references how European Delivery brings people into the fold, not repeat sales.
> 
> European Delivery was created to create brand awareness and loyalty to the marque. It does that very well - that's why, 40 years later, the program is still around.


:thumbup: I agree 100%. As I stated in my 1st or 2nd post on this Forum, if it wasn't for the ED program (as well as all the fantastic info here), I probably would not have ordered my 335i.


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## adwebinc (May 26, 2005)

Take a close look at the picture in my signature. That's all the reason I needed to do ED and am planning to return later this year. Driving 155mph is quite a rush!

As for the funniest question I got after explaining that I actually just go to the dealership to pick up the car for redelivery was, "well, how does the car get to 'your' dealership?"


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

GOFASTR said:


> :thumbup: I agree 100%. As I stated in my 1st or 2nd post on this Forum, if it wasn't for the ED program (as well as all the fantastic info here), I probably would not have ordered my 335i.


+1 with my 330i. :thumbup:


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## Fredric (Mar 29, 2007)

adwebinc said:


> .....As for the funniest question I got after explaining that I actually just go to the dealership to pick up the car for redelivery was, "well, how does the car get to 'your' dealership?"


It is amazing how many people have asked how I will get my car back here from Germany, even after being told that BMW takes care of shipping it.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

clarkcc1 said:


> ... I might have the most hilarious of them all...
> 
> A girl I used to see asked me "are you going on the ship with the car on the way back?" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Needless to say, she's blonde! ha. :thumbup:


That question is not so far-fetched as it may seem to ED buyers these days, for not so long ago, pre-ED (or, as it was known in the earlier days "Factory Delivery"), it was normal for US buyers to purchase vehicles from Mercedes Benz, Porsche and then, later, BMW dealerships, and take them back themselves on a trans-atlantic passenger ship.

Even in the early 1980's I regularly arranged for UK buyers of Mercedes Benz cars, forbidden by the factory in Sindelfingen to buy RHD vehicles from there (due to the huge price diferential then between German and UK prices and MB wanting to protect their UK dealerships), to collect their cars from places like Cyprus (where it's RHD too). We used to do sometimes 6 at a time, taking them on a passenger ship from Larnaca, Cyprus to Athens, Greece, through the incredible Corinth canal and on another ship usually to Bari in Southern Italy - then drive up through Switzerland and France and finally across on another ferry fom there to the UK. And all that remember without any Sat Navs or cell-phones but what fabulous trips they all were - and yes, going on the ship with the car, as the blonde rightly said!


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

johnc_22 said:


> I went just to get the cool Euro tag!


You get to keep the Euro Tag? :dunno:

What a concept!! :thumbup:


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## uncleozzy (Dec 20, 2006)

GOFASTR said:


> I agree 100%. As I stated in my 1st or 2nd post on this Forum, if it wasn't for the ED program (as well as all the fantastic info here), I probably would not have ordered my 335i.


Seconded (or thirded, or whatever we're at by now). I lived in a city for many years and never owned a car. When I moved out to the suburbs, I bought an econobox (albeit a very nice econobox). After 2 years I realized it was time for something a little nicer, a little quicker, and a little safer. Without the draw of the experience and cost-savings of ED, I'd probably be driving an A4 right now. Which, of course, isn't a bad car, but it's no 335i, and I probably wouldn't have gone to Ingolstadt to pick it up. This ED sale is 98% Bimmerfest's responsibility (the other 2% was a terrifyingly quick ride through some twisties in an E90 330i).


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## SouthBayM5 (May 8, 2006)

john lance said:


> That question is not so far-fetched as it may seem to ED buyers these days, for not so long ago, pre-ED (or, as it was known in the earlier days "Factory Delivery"), it was normal for US buyers to purchase vehicles from Mercedes Benz, Porsche and then, later, BMW dealerships, and take them back themselves on a trans-atlantic passenger ship.
> 
> Even in the early 1980's I regularly arranged for UK buyers of Mercedes Benz cars, forbidden by the factory in Sindelfingen to buy RHD vehicles from there (due to the huge price diferential then between German and UK prices and MB wanting to protect their UK dealerships), to collect their cars from places like Cyprus (where it's RHD too). We used to do sometimes 6 at a time, taking them on a passenger ship from Larnaca, Cyprus to Athens, Greece, through the incredible Corinth canal and on another ship usually to Bari in Southern Italy - then drive up through Switzerland and France and finally across on another ferry fom there to the UK. And all that remember without any Sat Navs or cell-phones but what fabulous trips they all were - and yes, going on the ship with the car, as the blonde rightly said!


Now THAT sounds like a fun trip!


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## Ian335i (Jun 4, 2007)

GOFASTR said:


> :thumbup: I agree 100%. As I stated in my 1st or 2nd post on this Forum, if it wasn't for the ED program (as well as all the fantastic info here), I probably would not have ordered my 335i.


+2 or 3, this forum as well as E90post has led me to order an E93 for ED in November. It's just a long wait, but I've got a bimmer now that I love, and probably won't part with anyways.


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## Larry Schloss (Jun 3, 2007)

Funniest questions I get are how many euros did you have to pay for your car, and when do you change the speedometer from kilometers to mph? :rofl:

335 E93 Monaco blue/cream beige Premium pkg, HD radio, heated seats
ED May 9
Drop off MADA May 14
Reached NJ June 2
Redelivery Who knows???


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## 2nynbak (Jan 28, 2007)

*Why is European delivery unknown or unpopular?*

Here's my two cents. It's unknown because BMW barely mentions it in their marketing. They do mention that their cars are, "The ultimate driving machine" and people do know about that as you can read in all the discussion here.

It's unpopular because most people would be very afraid to drive their own car in Europe. I can't tell you how many people I've asked if they are going to rent a car when they vacation in Europe and are told how much the buses and trains are the best way to get around over there. These are people who haven't been on a bus since the last time they went to the Hertz counter at Orlando Airport. The idea of driving their xxxxx thousand dollar car with those "crazy drivers over there" is more than about 99% of the population could bear. For the rest of us the adventure of the unknown, saving money, having a good story to tell, driving the way we like looking out the front window rather than the rear view mirror are reasons enough.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

By the way, I think the main reason is that BMW doesn't do much promotion for it. I recently see an ad on a travel magazine. On the ad, it called it an Ultimate Driving Experience, a nice picture of Autobahn.......that's all. European Delivery is not mentioned any place. If you were not knowlegable and didn't go to BMW website to look around. You would have no idea it was for ED.


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## clarkcc1 (Jan 23, 2007)

2nynbak said:


> Here's my two cents. It's unknown because BMW barely mentions it in their marketing. They do mention that their cars are, "The ultimate driving machine" and people do know about that as you can read in all the discussion here.
> 
> It's unpopular because most people would be very afraid to drive their own car in Europe. I can't tell you how many people I've asked if they are going to rent a car when they vacation in Europe and are told how much the buses and trains are the best way to get around over there. These are people who haven't been on a bus since the last time they went to the Hertz counter at Orlando Airport. The idea of driving their xxxxx thousand dollar car with those "crazy drivers over there" is more than about 99% of the population could bear. For the rest of us the adventure of the unknown, saving money, having a good story to tell, driving the way we like looking out the front window rather than the rear view mirror are reasons enough.


+a large number 

As I've said on here before, most people might think ED sounds intriguing, but not have the courage and sense of adventure to take it on. Lots and lots of people are happy staying within the borders of the U.S., let alone taking on roads with different signs and communicating (or trying to!) with people who speak different languages.


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## bagbklyn (Apr 28, 2006)

Fredric said:


> It is amazing how many people have asked how I will get my car back here from Germany, even after being told that BMW takes care of shipping it.


Interesting that this post is still going on... But I would just tell people that I am driving it all the way over and that there is a special bridge that I will be crossing to get over. I am sure that many people would believe me as there are so many clueless Americans that are only concerned with that is in between the Atlantic and Pacific; called the lower 48.

Then we want to know why we suck on international relations on a 'global scale'! Didn't mean to make it start going down the political road.

But being in Europe over more than a dozen times for business and pleasure, ED definitely sold me on picking up my future vehicle and touring beautiful European countries. In addition to enjoying countries that have a better understanding how to appreciate the finer things in life but it is great seeing people not be so wasteful of the limited resources in the world.

Sorry if I am bashing our country but I am sure as many Americans who have traveled abroad will tell you, leaving the boundaries of our country is a truly eye-opening experience; in every facet!!!


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Okay smartypants: How many time zones are there in the continental US?



bagbklyn said:


> Interesting that this post is still going on... But I would just tell people that I am driving it all the way over and that there is a special bridge that I will be crossing to get over. I am sure that many people would believe me as there are so many clueless Americans that are only concerned with that is in between the Atlantic and Pacific; called the lower 48.
> 
> Then we want to know why we suck on international relations on a 'global scale'! Didn't mean to make it start going down the political road.
> 
> ...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Robert A said:


> Okay smartypants: How many time zones are there in the continental US?


What's the capital of Scandinavia?


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Scandinavia isn't a country and doesn't have a capital. Still, how many time zones in the Continental U.S. You have five minutes left.



Jspira said:


> What's the capital of Scandinavia?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Robert A said:


> Scandinavia isn't a country and doesn't have a capital. Still, how many time zones in the Continental U.S. You have five minutes left.


Well, the question wasn't for me - I was just throwing out a decoy.

Is the 5 min for me too?

Or can I add a question: how many time zones in Nebraska.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

BTW, in the lower continental U.S. there are 4 official time zones, Eastern, Central, Mountain, and Pacific. This does not include the variations which are created by Daylight Saving Time non confirmists. 

Then there is the case of Alaska. That would add 2 more if we count the Aleutian Islands or St. Lawrence Island as part of the continental U.S. Or 1 more if we do not.


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## scubajag (Mar 14, 2005)

The funny thing is that European drivers, for the most part, are much more careful than here in the U.S They also will be careful not to ding your car or theirs. It might have something to do with the cost of a car in Europe which is higher than here when adjusted for average income.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

True, it was directed at the humor of the poster who was planning to drive his car across the Atlantic.

But to your question, I think Nebraska has two time zones - Central and Mountain.



Jspira said:


> Well, the question wasn't for me - I was just throwing out a decoy.
> 
> Is the 5 min for me too?
> 
> Or can I add a question: how many time zones in Nebraska.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Europeans have their share of problems too, but here in America, I think the biggest culprits are a substandard educational system and excessive amounts of GDP devoted to an inefficient health care system.



bagbklyn said:


> Interesting that this post is still going on... But I would just tell people that I am driving it all the way over and that there is a special bridge that I will be crossing to get over. I am sure that many people would believe me as there are so many clueless Americans that are only concerned with that is in between the Atlantic and Pacific; called the lower 48.
> 
> Then we want to know why we suck on international relations on a 'global scale'! Didn't mean to make it start going down the political road.
> 
> ...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Robert A said:


> True, it was directed at the humor of the poster who was planning to drive his car across the Atlantic.
> 
> But to your question, I think Nebraska has two time zones - Central and Mountain.


Correct.

And my car has the over-water option so it could make the trip over the Atlantic. :angel:


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## mrEcho (Jan 29, 2007)

yea i havent been met with much negativity either. if anything usually skepticism.

there is about 4 weeks that you pay for the car while its on the boat. but there are also the little extras free of charge like the opportunity to tour a factory, the euro plates, the 2 wks ins., the prep at the vpc after you've driven the car and of course the free snack at the delivery center.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

It's actually 14 days. Yes, there's on the water time, but there's also a real 7% discount as well, plus use of a car while in Europe.



jc000 said:


> This thread is fascinating. Everyone I told about it was amazed, envious, and wanted to go out and do it themselves! I didn't encounter anything negative at all.
> 
> That said, most people I talked to about it did NOT like the idea of writing a check 3 months before you get the car.


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## CinANC (Feb 2, 2007)

*"Then there is the case of Alaska. That would add 2 more if we count the Aleutian Islands or St. Lawrence Island as part of the continental U.S. Or 1 more if we do not."*

Jonothan, you are correct in a legal/political/conventional sense, but there is also a geographic answer... there are three geographic time zones within Alaska's borders, though there are only two political/legal time zones.

The current two zones (as you pointed out that includes Alaska's far west... so far west it includes tomorrow... Alaska is both the westernmost and the easternmost land in the US) was a political decision from the '80's. Then Gov Bill Sheffield successfully pushed through what I call Sheffield time, in which the two prior (and geographically correct) time zones of Yukon (SE Alaska) and Alaska (central Alaska, same as Hawaii time) were merged. Until then, Alaska's capitol of Juneau in SE Alaska was an hour later than the bulk of Alaska's population and business interests.

So now most of us in Alaska are effectively on daylight savings time all winter, and on double daylight time all summer, which makes no sense whatever with our already long summer nights.

But them's politics...

_*"Or we Europeans show more respect for the property of others?"*_

My observation from my May ED trip:

+1. I fully agree.

I hated (hated!) parking my brand new 335xi in all those too-narrow parking slots. Didn't matter where... city lots, hotels, restaurants, local POI's, they all were more suited to motorcycles than to sedans. I could barely get my rear out of the car. (Exception: Munich Marriott.)

But after 21 days, certain that I would find dings on my doors, I dropped that car off without a mark other than some curb love on my right front wheel (after a truck in Italy decided I should find somewhere else to be).

If I parked in Anchorage like I had to in Europe I would have scars and paint all over my doors in about three days.

That'll be my TiAg 335 over in the far end of the lot by itself, should you pass through ANC some time....


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

CinANC said:


> *"Then there is the case of Alaska. That would add 2 more if we count the Aleutian Islands or St. Lawrence Island as part of the continental U.S. Or 1 more if we do not."*
> 
> Jonothan, you are correct in a legal/political/conventional sense, but there is also a geographic answer... there are three geographic time zones within Alaska's borders, though there are only two political/legal time zones.
> 
> ...


Glad to hear you made it back OK. Welcome hearing any more details about your travels including any photos!


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## Gnu (Jun 10, 2007)

Do you think ED is a big selling point for bmw? It seems like it would be more hassel for them, and they are selling the car for less. Why do they do it?


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

Gnu said:


> Do you think ED is a big selling point for bmw? It seems like it would be more hassel for them, and they are selling the car for less. Why do they do it?


For pretty much the same reasons many retailers would maintain loyalty programs. For example, why would a retailer send you a 10% off card in the mail or advertise considerable discounts if you spend above a certain amount?


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

I suspect it costs them more to do ED and the answers as to why they'd do it aren't entirely clear. Several ideas have floated around these forums, which go as follows:

1. ED leads to longer term brand loyalty because many customers visit the factory, and also enjoy their cars on the Autobahn.

2. Everybody gets paid sooner - two weeks before delivery in Germany instead of many days/weeks after delivery in the U.S. Hence it improves cash flow and there's no flooring charges. ED cars are much harder to finance or lease unless you use BMWFS, so the buyer pool is smaller

3. Tradition

4. After WWII in the early 1960s,, Germany was still being rebuilt (as was much of Europe) and it was difficult to attract tourists. The ED discount was viewed (as some have suggested) as a means to accomplish two goals - get people to visit Europe after a devastating war, and to prop up the economy with tourist dollars and trade. Today, of course, those factors are irrelevant, but some suspect that the German government might still be giving tax incentives to car manufacturers.



Gnu said:


> Do you think ED is a big selling point for bmw? It seems like it would be more hassel for them, and they are selling the car for less. Why do they do it?


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## Gixxer335iCoupe (Jun 19, 2007)

I am buying a 335i Coupe using the European Delivery option, but the dealer is not being very cool about it. I paid $2000 earnest money so I could set up my arrangements in Germany, but it took them over a month to secure a date for me and in that time, BMW passed a decree that proclaimed that all 335i Coupes sold under the ED program would come out of the dealer's allotment for that car. Normally they are allocated an additional vehicle after you pick up the car, but since there are so few of them being produced, they had to take this one out of the dealers stock. 

Anyway, they threatened to not sell me this car because they would be "losing" money due to the $2855 discount. Now that I have made arrangements in Germany, I am afraid that the dealer will try to make up the difference in price when I actually sign the lease, knowing that I have a lot to lose. I need a leg up on them! Does anyone know if I were to back out on the deal, would that vehicle would be lost from their allocation? I have every intent to follow through with the deal, but if they have about as much to lose as I do, I can be more aggressive. As an alternative, does anyone know if my pick up date is “mine” (i.e. it can be transferred to a different dealer as long as I buy the same car on the same date)? Again, if the deal falls through, I still want this car and it would be nice to know that I can go down the street and still get the same car. Does anyone know the phone number to the office that handles ED so I can ask them myself?

Thanks!


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

First of all it sounds like you are being told half truths by your dealer. The only reason the 335i coupe would be coming out of dealer allocation is if you were seeking a delivery date when all of the ED slots have already been spoken for. To my knowledge that would mean if you were taking delivery after the end of October there would be no loss to the dealer with regard to its allocation. As far as transferring to another dealer, once an ED has been accepted by BMW the car is transferred to your dealer's allocation. I assume that means the dealer has to pay for it whether you pick it up or not. Presumably if you don't pick it up he might be able to reassign the ED to another customer or alternatively it will be shipped to the dealer as any other allocated car. In other words the car is the dealer's not yours until such time as you actually pay for it in full some two weeks prior to the ED delivery date.


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## Gixxer335iCoupe (Jun 19, 2007)

I have heard from another BMW dealer that this is the case with this particular model. Also, I paid the $2000 back in March, got the date in April for an August delivery, so I doubt the date was full. Thanks for letting me know there is nothing I can do! Anyone have any advice so that I won't feel so helpless when go in?


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

It sounds to me that if you got your date back in April that yours was not being taken out of the dealer's allocation. It may be true that for your dealer to schedule someone else now for an August delivery he would have to take it out of allocation. I suppose an unethical dealer might be tempted to steal one's non allocated car to sell to someone else if he could convince you to cancel your purchase and he still would have your car guaranteed to him to sell now that it had been allocated to the dealership. I think you need to PM Irv or Adrian with the exact details of your transaction to see where you stand. ( I see you are a new poster so use the search feature to locate a post by Irv or Adrian and from that you can send them a PM (private message.)


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## IrvRobinson (May 10, 2006)

You will need to cancel the first order,before a second order can be accepted for ED.You would also be starting over for the date.If you're going in November or later,the date should not be a problem.If you want to pick up in August in Munich,let me know !


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## Gixxer335iCoupe (Jun 19, 2007)

Everything went okay. Had to pay the $599 dealer fee and they wouldn't take the credit card as a down payment. I wanted my skymiles on a $5,000 purchase, but they played the "we don't want to give you $50,000 credit while using a credit card" B.S.! If i didn't make a down payment, I'd still be financing $50,000! Also, I got them to admit that they just didn't want to pay the terminal fee (about 2% - on a $5,000 sale, that $100). Shouldn't the dealer cover that, especially when I pay MSRP and a $599 dealer fee? Not really happy with the dealership, so I wont ever be going back, even for service. I've learned my lesson and next time I'm going with Irv! I've heard a lot of good things about him on this and other forums.


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## Gixxer335iCoupe (Jun 19, 2007)

So I went on Visa's website and found the following info:

"Dollar Minimums and Maximums
Always honor valid Visa cards, in your acceptance category, regardless of the dollar amount of the purchase. Imposing minimum or maximum purchase amounts is a violation.

No Surcharging
Always treat Visa transactions like any other transaction; that is, you may not impose any surcharge on a Visa transaction. You may, however, offer a discount for cash transactions, provided that the offer is clearly disclosed to customers and the cash price is presented as a discount from the standard price charged for all other forms of payment."

http://www.usa.visa.com/download/merchants/rules_for_visa_merchants.pdf?it=r|/merchants/new_acceptance/merchant_responsibility.html|Rules%20for%20Visa%20Merchants

I am reporting the dealership to Visa and I'll be writing a letter to the manager letting him know that I'll never be back.


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## Naughtychimp (Jul 29, 2007)

I think many people in Canada have never even heard of this program and of those who have, most think it's only available to buyers in the US.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Gixxer335iCoupe said:


> Everything went okay. Had to pay the $599 dealer fee and they wouldn't take the credit card as a down payment. I wanted my skymiles on a $5,000 purchase, but they played the "we don't want to give you $50,000 credit while using a credit card" B.S.! If i didn't make a down payment, I'd still be financing $50,000! Also, I got them to admit that they just didn't want to pay the terminal fee (about 2% - on a $5,000 sale, that $100). Shouldn't the dealer cover that, especially when I pay MSRP and a $599 dealer fee? Not really happy with the dealership, so I wont ever be going back, even for service. I've learned my lesson and next time I'm going with Irv! I've heard a lot of good things about him on this and other forums.


You should look for my posts on European Delivery and leasing. There are critical things to look for and check that make a difference of thousands of dollars in the total lease payments. On my original Euro Delivery lease with Motor Werks of Barrington, Illinois they based the residual value on ED MSRP, not US MSRP. I paid over $3,000 extra to Motor Werks because of this screw job. Always use Lease Wizard or comparable software to check the dealer's math so that you get a fair deal. Motor Werks tried the trick on my next lease until I wrote BMW, then they magically realized the residual value for a European Delivery car would in in fact be based upon US MSRP. Motor Werks is awful to deal with on the lease math on European Delivery because they are deceitful and pad the numbers. Very few people check the lease math and they exploit that.

If the dealer neglected to order your ED car in a timely manner I would write a letter to BMW European Delivery and BMW Customer Service. BMW works hard to maintain customer loyalty for repeat customers. If you are a lease customer BMW knows that you will most likely be buying a new car every 3 years.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

coldintake said:


> 2) You don't have a car which is a problem for people who don't have a beater/2nd car.
> 
> Again, the savings are great, but the entire process is only effective if you are already planning a trip there. The stuff I mentioned above is still a problem, but atleast you save _some_ money. Great for the experience though!


The idea is to plan ahead. This has alread been mentioned in a previous post, but since it's obvious you didn't read it I'll mention it again for clarification. You do your ED before you must turn in the car on your ending lease. It was also mentioned that you have the option to sell your leased car at a profit (depending of course on market conditions) instead of turning it in, thereby offsetting having to make a multiple payment for one or two months. e.g. Ford's changing the name of the Five Hundred to Taurus; most people will never know they did it and will be happy to buy the Taurus just because they're familiar with it's name.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone mentioned BMW's lack of marketing of the ED program. That would have to be the number one reason it is not used more. If they're not telling people about it, then the people are not going to know. People are generally not real inquisitive; they like to be spoon fed.

I imagine BMW likes it the way it is. If they wanted to increase it's use, they could certainly do it by engaging in an aggressive marketing campaign.


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## tashi (Oct 11, 2003)

ED is the only way to buy a brand new BMW. I loved my ED experience on my 04 325i back in 12/03. With a cheap ticket to Munich and 3 days to visit Germany, Holland and Denmark we had a blast... much looking forward to the next one (whenever it happens).

Secondly, like some people mentioned, this is the only way to get a customized car thats not typically sold. My next car will be a 528i with no options except NAV. Even I had Alladin's lamp I wouldnt be able to find this car at a dealer.


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## runnr548 (Jul 13, 2007)

I found out about ED 2 days after I ordered my car, at which time the stealership manager told me it was too late. I'm not sure he was being honest, but my next one will be ED for sure. It's too cool!


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

runnr548 said:


> I found out about ED 2 days after I ordered my car, at which time the stealership manager told me it was too late. I'm not sure he was being honest, but my next one will be ED for sure. It's too cool!


Do it once and you will be hooked forever. It is the only way to go.


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## Newman (Mar 3, 2007)

In my case it was for two reasons -- first, there is only one person at the local dealership that "specializes" in ED vehicles so sales people don't want to tell you about it because they'll lose at least one-half of their commission and second, the commission on the ED isn't great. My CA told me that his commission was $108 on my car (not sure I entirely believe that he's only going ot make $108 on a $1,200 deal, but whatever). 

~David


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## Fredric (Mar 29, 2007)

tashi said:


> ED is the only way to buy a brand new BMW. I loved my ED experience on my 04 325i back in 12/03. With a cheap ticket to Munich and 3 days to visit Germany, Holland and Denmark we had a blast... much looking forward to the next one (whenever it happens).
> 
> Secondly, like some people mentioned, this is the only way to get a customized car thats not typically sold. My next car will be a 528i with no options except NAV. Even I had Alladin's lamp I wouldnt be able to find this car at a dealer.


Can't you order a car with the options that you want, for dealer delivery?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Fredric said:


> Can't you order a car with the options that you want, for dealer delivery?


Of course he could. I didn't understand that point either. Most people (globally) order their cars to their exact specifications.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

Jspira said:


> Of course he could. I didn't understand that point either. Most people (globally) order their cars to their exact specifications.


I think what he means is that you're not going to find a car on the dealer lot the way he would, or you would want to have it configured. So, if you want to order a car exactly the way you want it, it's "the only way to go." Sure you could order your spec vehicle and have it delivered at the dealership, but hey, _ED is the only way to go_.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

runnr548 said:


> I found out about ED 2 days after I ordered my car, at which time the stealership manager told me it was too late. I'm not sure he was being honest, but my next one will be ED for sure. It's too cool!


Your dealer was lying - through his teeth! Use another dealer next time. One that knows and understands ED and treats you right.


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## Fredric (Mar 29, 2007)

mdsbuc said:


> I think what he means is that you're not going to find a car on the dealer lot the way he would, or you would want to have it configured. So, if you want to order a car exactly the way you want it, it's "the only way to go." Sure you could order your spec vehicle and have it delivered at the dealership, but hey, _ED is the only way to go_.


ED may be "the only way to go" for a certain number of people (myself included), but it is not for everyone. There are many factors that can affect your choice of ED vs dealer delivery, and one shouldn't conclude that what is right for them is right for everybody.


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## tashi (Oct 11, 2003)

Fredric said:


> Can't you order a car with the options that you want, for dealer delivery?





Jspira said:


> Of course he could. I didn't understand that point either. Most people (globally) order their cars to their exact specifications.





mdsbuc said:


> I think what he means is that you're not going to find a car on the dealer lot the way he would, or you would want to have it configured. So, if you want to order a car exactly the way you want it, it's "the only way to go." Sure you could order your spec vehicle and have it delivered at the dealership, but hey, _ED is the only way to go_.





Fredric said:


> ED may be "the only way to go" for a certain number of people (myself included), but it is not for everyone. There are many factors that can affect your choice of ED vs dealer delivery, and one shouldn't conclude that what is right for them is right for everybody.


Yes you could order the car through a dealer... and then they will charge you MSRP for your customized special car... or you can go via an ED friendly dealer and save 20% off and have a fabulous vacation.

So yes... you can order it... is it worth it compared to ED, absolutely not.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

tashi said:


> Yes you could order the car through a dealer... and then they will charge you MSRP for your customized special car... or you can go via an ED friendly dealer and save 20% off and have a fabulous vacation.
> 
> So yes... you can order it... is it worth it compared to ED, absolutely not.


Perhaps, you've paid full MSRP when direct ordered? If yes, unless it was a 335 vert (hard to get car), I'm sorry to tell you, but you got screwed, my friend...
You have the same negotiating tools with direct order, as with ED. The only difference is the starting invoice price and the place of initial delivery. The car also comes out of dealer allocation with direct order.
There is nothing "special" about your customized car. You pick what you want out of the list of available options, etc.


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## tashi (Oct 11, 2003)

bimmer_fam said:


> Perhaps, you've paid full MSRP when direct ordered? If yes, unless it was a 335 vert (hard to get car), I'm sorry to tell you, but you got screwed, my friend...
> You have the same negotiating tools with direct order, as with ED. The only difference is the starting invoice price and the place of initial delivery. The car also comes out of dealer allocation with direct order.
> There is nothing "special" about your customized car. You pick what you want out of the list of available options, etc.


No my friend... I have only bought one BMW ever and that was via ED... I luckily stumbled on these forums back on 2003 and did research for 6 months before placing my order. And not only I just paid $1000 over ED invoice, I also benefited from California tax loophole.

You tell me there is any dealer out there that will order me a car that i want for $1000 over invoice and I will gladly consider it.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

tashi said:


> No my friend... I have only bought one BMW ever and that was via ED... I luckily stumbled on these forums back on 2003 and did research for 6 months before placing my order. And not only I just paid $1000 over ED invoice, I also benefited from California tax loophole.
> 
> You tell me there is any dealer out there that will order me a car that i want for $1000 over invoice and I will gladly consider it.


Well...in that case how can you even speak about direct order? Do some research on the 3er forum; you will see that many people paid same amount over invoice without doing ED (over US invoice, off course).
I bought several BMWs and never paid MSRP...

ED program is great for those who are willing to do it, but many more order cars from a dealer with exact specs, wait a couple of months and still pay said amount over the invoice...

As we say, RTFM before making assumptions...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

tashi said:


> Yes you could order the car through a dealer... and then they will charge you MSRP for your customized special car....


If you are implying that dealers will charge MSRP without a discount if you order your car, that is not correct: dealers generally treat special orders the same as off the showroom floor.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Jonathan - just for curiosity, what reason do you think BMW has for not advertising their ED program more aggressively?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

tturedraider said:


> Jonathan - just for curiosity, what reason do you think BMW has for not advertising their ED program more aggressively?


 Well, they do advertise it. I've seen print adverts in travel magazines.

They don't advertise it A LOT at the moment because they are waiting for the BMW Welt to open and then I suspect there will be a bigger push.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

The Welt kinda makes me think of a BMW Disneyland. :clap:


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

tturedraider said:


> The Welt kinda makes me think of a BMW Disneyland. :clap:


It's more like a BMW DisneyWorld... (Welt=World) :bigpimp:


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