# International flights after 25.12.2009



## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Looks like new protocols will apply for international flight screening and for passenger rules to follow in flight. No hikes to the WC in the last hour of flight and no items in your lap.

Might be a good idea to prepare by early arrival at airports (screening lines longer and more time consuming) and in flight activities.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

We just flew LAX->LHR->MAN. I was body searched twice, once at LAX and again at LHR. 

Get to the airport early. Extra early. Be prepared for delays. As of yesterday, most flights departing LHR to the US were running 2 to 4 hours late.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Thank you. It is better that the searches be thorough rather than lax. This is a small price to pay for safety. Apparently the bomber on the flight from Amsterdam to Detroit hid the bomb material in his genital area.


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> We just flew LAX->LHR->MAN. I was body searched twice, once at LAX and again at LHR.
> 
> Get to the airport early. Extra early. Be prepared for delays. As of yesterday, most flights departing LHR to the US were running 2 to 4 hours late.


Flew DEN-FRA-FCO on the 26th and had no hassles.........not looking fwd to our return next week! I was thinking of you as we flew over llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio, Wales. ; )


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## Yay-Z (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah just got back from France, the searching was incredible, get to the airport 3-4 hrs in advance.

Our flight was delayed by like 1hr 30 mins because of the extra searching at the terminal.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Not going to get easier or quicker soon either.


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## 02 330Ci (Jun 9, 2008)

[/sarcasm] It is nice to pay someone to strip search you [/sarcasm]


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

I just returned from Taiwan yesterday on United - the security at Taipei wasn't too bad, but changing planes and another round of security at Tokyo Narita (that normally is 15 minutes) was almost 3 hours  

Dick


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Just back MUC-LHR-JFK. No real change at MUC except for being asked to turn the camera (DSLR) on and the security agent looked through the viewfinder (not sure what that proves).

At LHR there was probably an hour back-up or more at the gate as everyone was being patted down and carry-on bags were being inspected.

Luckily AA personnel came out of the gate area looking for First Class passengers so I missed having to wait on line .

The inspection itself was curious. The inspectors were about 75% thorough (25% is a big gap) and checked 75% of the compartments of my bag. The inspector wanted me to open the umbrella handle of my compact travel umbrella but when I told him I would have to actually open the umbrella, he said to forget about it. :dunno:

Also, no pillow/blanket nonsense, no problem using the W.C. at any time (even as we started our descent), etc.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Glad to hear no nonsense WC visits in the last hour. What is reported then is not what happens. Shifting sands protocols and policies.


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## CarSwami (Oct 2, 2005)

I flew back from LHR to Washington Dulles on 24 December, the day before the event happened, and everything was so peaceful! I have to go back to the UK next week and am not looking forward to the long lines during my return to the USA later in the week. I normally do not check-in my roller bag when I fly on business, but this time I will do so. One reason is because according to both the United and British Airways web-sites, passengers flying to the USA from both LHR and Amsterdam are allowed only one carry-on bag now. And I just heard that AMS has decided to institute full body scans for all visitors coming to the USA.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

So, the idiocy that is the airport "security" theater continues.

I just flew *to* Latin America, no changes. We'll see how it goes back home.

Do the minimum wage TSA high school dropouts not realize that rather than trying to smuggle a bomb onboard the plane, it'd be much easier now to attack that huge ass line, full of hundreds of people that has formed outside the checkpoints because they got grandma spread eagled?

So stupid...

And what about the laptop batteries?! Those things are very volatile and explosive.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

dalekressin said:


> Glad to hear no nonsense WC visits in the last hour. What is reported then is not what happens. Shifting sands protocols and policies.


On one flight, the attendant got so confused with these new rules that she told people, "No reading during the last hour!!" (?!?!) and everybody started laughing and hooting and calling her names.

THAT is where we are now... So sad.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

CarSwami said:


> And I just heard that AMS has decided to institute *full body scans *for all visitors coming to the USA.


They got that in Moscow. Very convenient, if you don't mind the security checking out your weenie.

No taking off coats or shoes or anything. Just walk right through the booth-type thing and voila. I'd rather they eye ball my 8-incher than having to undress like an idiot.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

zoltrix said:


> They got that in Moscow. Very convenient, if you don't mind the security checking out your weenie.
> 
> No taking off coats or shoes or anything. Just walk right through the booth-type thing and voila. *I'd rather they eye ball my 8-incher than having to undress like an idiot*.


Thanks for sharing!


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

JSpira said:


> Just back MUC-LHR-JFK. No real change at MUC except for being asked to turn the camera (DSLR) on and the security agent looked through the viewfinder (not sure what that proves).
> 
> At LHR there was probably an hour back-up or more at the gate as everyone was being patted down and carry-on bags were being inspected.
> 
> ...


I guess terrorists don't fly first class.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

mason said:


> I guess terrorists don't fly first class.


Yes, they do. Or did i miss the sarcasm??


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

zoltrix said:


> S
> 
> Do the minimum wage TSA high school dropouts not realize that rather than trying to smuggle a bomb onboard the plane, it'd be much easier now to attack that huge ass line, full of hundreds of people that has formed outside the checkpoints because they got grandma spread eagled?


The TSA front line people don't make those decisions.

There have been attacks on the front side of airports. Most recent one I can think of was Glasgow in 2007. Jeep Cherokee full of propane tanks into the front of the terminal building.

There are softer targets than aircraft too. Debbie was in London during the 2005 bombings. The Tavistock Square bomb missed her by maybe 20 minutes.

I'd walked right by the BMA two days before, but was home on July 7.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> The TSA front line people don't make those decisions.
> 
> There have been attacks on the front side of airports. Most recent one I can think of was Glasgow in 2007. Jeep Cherokee full of propane tanks into the front of the terminal building.
> 
> ...


You should read a few letters from my friends in Israel - for all country that is every day life.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Security measures may slow you down so be prepared.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

For anyone who has flown since 12/25/09 AND had a connection, do you have to undergo additional security screening once you go through on your first leg? I am wondering if I have a decent chance of making my connection in Copenhagen with only 1 hr and 25 minutes assuming my flight from Munich arrives on time. I am flying SAS on both legs.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

rmorin49 said:


> For anyone who has flown since 12/25/09 AND had a connection, do you have to undergo additional security screening once you go through on your first leg? I am wondering if I have a decent chance of making my connection in Copenhagen with only 1 hr and 25 minutes assuming my flight from Munich arrives on time. I am flying SAS on both legs.


As I mentioned in my post a few days ago after my return flight, there was a complete screening at the gate prior to departure. This included wanding, pat downs, and a 75% look at carry-on luggage.

The line coming out of the gate area was probably 90 minutes long if not longer.


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

rmorin49 said:


> For anyone who has flown since 12/25/09 AND had a connection, do you have to undergo additional security screening once you go through on your first leg? I am wondering if I have a decent chance of making my connection in Copenhagen with only 1 hr and 25 minutes assuming my flight from Munich arrives on time. I am flying SAS on both legs.





JSpira said:


> As I mentioned in my post a few days ago after my return flight, there was a complete screening at the gate prior to departure. This included wanding, pat downs, and a 75% look at carry-on luggage.
> 
> The line coming out of the gate area was probably 90 minutes long if not longer.


In Frankfurt you only need go through a traditional domestic style screening when connecting, 1:25 would have been plenty.......In Munich you have to go through the intensive security at the gate, 2:30 was barely enough. Screening appears to vary by airport....your best bet is to go to flyertalk and see if anyone has transited CPH recently.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

john lance said:


> It appears the radiation risk is somewhere between zero and irrelevent, according to the report which says that "the typical backscatter machines deliver about 0.1 microsevert of radiation. The average chest X-ray, by comparison, delivers 100 microseverts of radiation, and a chest computed tomography or CT scan delivers 10,000 microseverts".
> 
> Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100106/ts_nm/us_security_airlines_scanners
> 
> ...


Well, that is what they would say now. But didn't hear now they are saying CT scan radiation is much higher than first tested. It is actually at a harmful level.

Privacy thing is a very personal choice. I have no problem. Someone might have. That's why I want to see which direction festers are leaning.


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

mason said:


> Well, that is what they would say now. But didn't hear now they are saying CT scan radiation is much higher than first tested. It is actually at a harmful level.
> 
> Privacy thing is a very personal choice. I have no problem. Someone might have. That's why I want to see which direction festers are leaning.


 I'm ok with the privacy issues, but I am concerned about the radiation with the machines. There was a study released recently that said 30,000 people die in the US each year from cancer caused by excessive CT scans. I would want to know for certain that the radiation is as low as they say it is.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

CDG-ORD-FSD Yesterday, Left Red Carpet Lounge 1:30 prior to take off security at gate area was very intensive but reasonably quick, made me take my camera body out and place it in the tray with my netbook, however did not need to attach a lens or turn it on. Went through the rest of my electronics and on we went. No more hassle than I would have expected any other time.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

One of our bags was delayed 8 days. It was delayed at LAX, spent some time at LHR and then fell into a black hole at Manchester. Did finally get it. British Airways told me they had an exceptionally large number of delayed bags. From talking to friends flying into the UK, my experience was typical. I've heard that entire aircraft were showing up at LHR with no checked baggage. This is partly due to weather delays and partly due to increased security.

We flew Air New Zealand LAX->LHR and BA from LHR to MAN. Great flight other than all the crazyness at the airports. 


If only LHR had a decent connection to the West Coast Main Line.


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

Let me have the full body scan if I can skip the lines and not have to take off my shoes. Definitely not a big deal to me if I can get through security faster.

Cheers


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

Interestingly, best I can determine I flew out of the same gate at the Amsterdam airport that the December 25th terrorist used. My flight was in November and I could swear a guy matching the pictures I have seen was just ahead of me in line and was taken out of line for further questioning. Last I saw his passport was being reviewed. I found it odd that the only security screening I went through was at the gate itself. That may have been a factor in the terrorist's choice of airport and airline. Like the terrorist's flight, mine was also to the Midwest and from what I have since read there was less security focus on such flights.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Northcar said:


> Interestingly, best I can determine I flew out of the same gate at the Amsterdam airport that the December 25th terrorist used. My flight was in November and I could swear a guy matching the pictures I have seen was just ahead of me in line and was taken out of line for further questioning. Last I saw his passport was being reviewed. I found it odd that the only security screening I went through was at the gate itself. That may have been a factor in the terrorist's choice of airport and airline. Like the terrorist's flight, mine was also to the Midwest and from what I have since read there was less security focus on such flights.


Could have been a "test run".


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> One of our bags was delayed 8 days. It was delayed at LAX, spent some time at LHR and then fell into a black hole at Manchester. Did finally get it. British Airways told me they had an exceptionally large number of delayed bags. From talking to friends flying into the UK, my experience was typical. I've heard that entire aircraft were showing up at LHR with no checked baggage. This is partly due to weather delays and partly due to increased security.
> 
> We flew Air New Zealand LAX->LHR and BA from LHR to MAN. Great flight other than all the crazyness at the airports.
> 
> If only LHR had a decent connection to the West Coast Main Line.


ey, perhaps your bag had a custome intensive audit?:rofl:


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## gesoffen (Jun 18, 2004)

I'm not sure why I didin't post this earlier but we (mysself, wife, 2 kids) were in Germany from 12/13 through 12/28/09. Our return was MUC>BRU>IAD on UA. The MUC>BRU was a non-event. Leaving the schengen side of BRU to the "international" security was also a non-event. 

Once at our gate, we were confronted with chaos. A couple of different lines with no airport staff to help direct - only security staff who were performing multiple screenings. The first round was a Q&A screening (where were you bags? etc), the second round was a hand search of all carry on luggage and the third round was a pat down. We mistakenly stepped into the line for the carry-on search (remember, no airport personnel to provide guidance and no signage) first. After moving no where for 20-30 minutes, I investigated and discovered A) we needed to go through the Q&A screening before getting in the baggage screening line and B) I found there was a premier line that I could take advantage of. In addition, the bottles of water we bought in the terminal were not allowed through security. Also, the baggage screening wasn't 100% either, as they missed a few pockets or didn't thoroughly examine some items that weren't obvious as to their use/contents - backs up the belief that some measures are just to help pacify ordinary passengers.

With only 2 Q&A screeners, 4 baggage screeners, and 2 pat down screeners handling a near full 777 worth of passengers, it took over 2 hours to complete the boarding process so we were about 75 minutes late in departing. We were on of the first 50 or so on board - once on board, no further issues (i.e. Map was active until parked at gate in IAD, no last hour restrictions, no lap restrictions, etc). In fact, while we were waiting the last 90 minutes for boarding, the pilot allowed my 6 y.o. daughter to visit the cockpit. As we were chatting, he seemed clearly annoyed but understood the precautions were necessary.

I had family members traveling the same day direct MUC>IAD. They had little/no boarding delays at the gate but were subject to the end-of-flight restrictions. In fact, the in-flight entertainment system was inop for the entire flight. I think the modern facilitlies at MUC allowed the quick but thorough screening of passengers compared to older airports.

From reading the 12/25 TSA directive, it clearly mandated additional screening measures but left the in-flight restrictions up to the airline/pilot. I imagine, in day or two after the incident, details were few and far between so most airlines/captains used an abundance of caution and followed the directives requirements AND recommendations. However, it's clear by many of the post-12/25 stories, that the in-flight restrictions were unenforceable at best and ludicrous at worst and they had been slowly relaxed by the airline/pilot.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

We returned from Berlin (TXL-EWR-IAH) on 01/04/10. Full pat-downs were done which were a *lot more thorough * than other times I've been patted down. Overheard a fellow business-class passenger telling someone that he was taken aside for further questioning/searching as he had recent surgery and "security didn't believe him and wanted to see for themselves". We also had two air marshalls on the flight. The Berlin airport experience was fine -- no delays. EWR on the other hand was insane as we were caught in the aftermath of the Sunday evening (01/03/10) Security Breach and our flight to Houston was delayed by 6 hours.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

rmorin49 said:


> I am flying MUC to Copenhagen and then on to IAD. Hopefully once I am screened in Munich I can make my connection as I *only have 1 hr 25 minutes in Copenhagen. * If I get stranded in Copenhagen, fine with me as I have never been there before.


Can you run-walk really fast? We flew out of Copenhagen back to Amsterdam a year or so ago and I swear, I thought we were going to walk back to Amsterdam by the time we walked from security to our gate. When we have made transfers from intra-Europe flights to international we have always had to go through screening again.


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