# I did my research, how does this sound?



## JustinTJ (Jun 1, 2011)

*EDIT: Updated Route in Post 39. Thanks for the tips!*

Current Updated Route Map - https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=216907915320468243954.0004c23ac76ef29a67110&msa=0.

I have spent countless hours reading hundreds of threads to come up with this route, making sure that each day doesn't have more than a few hours of boring driving time. I'm going with a bud from college. We're both single, in our mid 30s, and don't mind packing and unpacking each night. The majority of the time is spent in Southern Germany, Austria, and a touch of Northern Italy.

Tried to avoid big cities and take advantage of driving my new ride. My goal is to have light driving time as well as time each day to actually see the areas we are visiting. I do not want to be driving all day or at night. The night is for dinner, sights, and beer. Any comments, tips, route changes, things to cut, things to add, places to eat, hotels, are appreciated. I already have a list of hotels and restaurants compiled from reading threads, but confirmation always works.

I've racked my brain trying to figure out a way to fit Andechs Monastery into the trip, but alas no luck.

There's a good chance that I can settle down in Reutte or a similar location and do some day trips out of the same hotel while I'm in the Fussen/Garmisch area.

I already cut Augsburg and Schloss Lichtenstein. I can also skip Fluela Pass and go back through Stelvio to Mittenwald.

If I need to scale back, sadly I would probably cut Stelvio Pass, St Leonardo Pass and head north from Passo Sella to Mittenwald. (Show on map by Deleting J & K)

Second cut would have to be Passo Sella and Corina d'Amprezzo, which means I would leave the Gloss and head out via Dobbiaco, Brunico, and Rio di Pusteria. (Show on map by Deleting H & I)

Is Kitzbuhel worth the out of the way drive? Final cut would be Kitzbuhel and go down the A10 instead of the back roads. Don't know if that makes a difference.

Oberammergau worth a stop and stroll? Any days that should be combined?

For late August/Early September. Mileage is in (*) Short daily drives allows us to play catch up the next morning if we want to do something we missed before leaving.

Day 1: Arrive in Munich ***8211; stroll and sleep
Day 2: Delivery, Tour, Museum ***8211; stroll and sleep 
Day 3: Dachau in AM (15m), Drive to Salzburg, Hohensalzburg Castle, stroll and sleep. ( 90m)
Day 4: Drive to Berchtesgaden, tour Eagles nest, salt mines, Konigsee, and area. Stroll and sleep. (20m)
Day 5: Drive thru Kitzbuhel 48m), Glossglockner, stop in Heiligenblut or Lienz. Stroll and sleep. (88m)
Day 6: Drive to Cortina d'Amprezzo (48m), Drive Passo Sella. Stop in Bressanone or Vipiteno. Stroll and sleep. (80m)
Day 7: Drive Leonhard Pass (24m), Stelvio Pass N to S side. Stop in Bormio. Stroll and sleep. (73m)
Day 8: Drive back thru Stelvio Pass, drive to Mittenwald. Stroll and sleep. (130m)
Day 9: Drive Garmisch (12m). Grainau. Ride up Zugspitze, Drive to Oberammergau. Stroll and sleep. (12m)
Day 10: Linderhof Palace, to Reutte (25m), to Fussen. Stroll and Sleep. (10m)
Day 11: Fussen castles, Neuschwanstein, Hohenschwangau. Enjoy the town, Stroll and sleep. (0m)
Day 12: Drive to Wieskirche (15m), Head to Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Germany. Night Watch. Stroll and sleep. (165m)
Day 13: Drive to Wurzburg (50m), Drive to Nurberg Ring (180m)
Day 14: The miles have accumulated, it's time to Ride the Ring,
Day 15: Drive to Frankfurt (105m). Dropoff. Cry.
Day 16: Fly Home. I may leave in the evening after dropoff depending on flights.


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## sactoken (Apr 4, 2004)

Sounds like you've thought this through really well! I'd like to take a look at your route map, but the link isn't working for me.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Looks very reasonable. The longest drive is to The Ring. Stopping in Wurzburg could take time as there is a fair amount to see there. Also, the area around the The Ring is very nice. If you have time, try to drive down along the Mosel River and maybe a trip into Trier. Otherwise, looks like an awesome itinerary.


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## Bikie (May 2, 2004)

Andechs monastary is an easy stop between Oberammergau and Linderhof then go to Reutte through the Ammertal route.


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## Bikie (May 2, 2004)

If you haven't booked in Reutte may I suggest Hotel Bergidyl in Pfronten which is 5k past Reutte in Germany. We stayed there in April. The owner Thorsten who speaks English is a great guy, the hotel is clean with a terrific breakfast and is very reasonable 60 euro including tax and license for two safe off street parking 15 minute drive to the castles.. http://www.hotel-bergidyll.com/en/index.htm


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

JustinTJ said:


> I have spent countless hours reading hundreds of threads to come up with this route, making sure that each day doesn't have more than a few hours of boring driving time. I'm going with a bud from college. We're both single, in our mid 30s, and don't mind packing and unpacking each night. The majority of the time is spent in Southern Germany, Austria, and a touch of Northern Italy.
> 
> Tried to avoid big cities and take advantage of driving my new ride. My goal is to have light driving time as well as time each day to actually see the areas we are visiting. I do not want to be driving all day or at night. The night is for dinner, sights, and beer. Any comments, tips, route changes, things to cut, things to add, places to eat, hotels, are appreciated. I already have a list of hotels and restaurants compiled from reading threads, but confirmation always works.
> 
> ...


Great trip - looks very similiar to what I did on my European Delivery (except I was too early in the spring to enjoy the passes).

My only feedback is it appears you aren't giving yourself enough time on Day #3 & Day #4. Dachau takes 3-4 hours if you take your time going throough the exhibits, by the time you get to Salzburg it could be too late for sightseeing. You can see Salzburg in 1/2 day, very condensed city - I enjoyed the creative cemetaries tucked behind the churches (Rick Steve's city walk from his guidebook). You should consider stopping at RedBull Hanger 7 at the Salzburg Airport, it was free when I stopped and well worth the time. It's just off the highway between Salzburg and Berchtesgaden.

In Bertchtesgaden, the Konigsee was a nice diversion, but plan on 3-4 hours if you intend on doing the boatride. The boat ride is scenic, and the restaurant/brewhouse at the end of the lake is wonderful (German only menu), I didn't feel it was worth the time (and we spent 3 days in Salzburg/Berchtesgaden).

If you are looking to make up time elsewhere, you can always due the three Fussen area castles in one day, along with the drive from Oberammergau.

I'd second rmorin's reccomendation.


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## JustinTJ (Jun 1, 2011)

sactoken said:


> Sounds like you've thought this through really well! I'd like to take a look at your route map, but the link isn't working for me.


Fixed the route map, it now shows the trip. Thanks!



rmorin49 said:


> Looks very reasonable. The longest drive is to The Ring. Stopping in Wurzburg could take time as there is a fair amount to see there. Also, the area around the The Ring is very nice. If you have time, try to drive down along the Mosel River and maybe a trip into Trier. Otherwise, looks like an awesome itinerary.


I've tried to figure out Wurzburg and what to do there. The nice thing is that it's a short drive so I will get there before noon. I have no problems spending the day there and getting to the ring later in the evening because I'll be there for the next day and a half.

The next day will be an entire day at the ring and I will not be riding it all day. Good ideas on side trips while in the area. I did some research into Trier, and it does look interesting if time permits.



Bikie said:


> Andechs monastary is an easy stop between Oberammergau and Linderhof then go to Reutte through the Ammertal route.


You know, that's the shortest day of activities AND the closest I'll be to it. You may be onto something there...



Bikie said:


> If you haven't booked in Reutte may I suggest Hotel Bergidyl in Pfronten which is 5k past Reutte in Germany. We stayed there in April. The owner Thorsten who speaks English is a great guy, the hotel is clean with a terrific breakfast and is very reasonable 60 euro including tax and license for two safe off street parking 15 minute drive to the castles.. http://www.hotel-bergidyll.com/en/index.htm


Thank you! That's a great tip, exactly along the lines of what I'm looking for. Will contact as soon as I get dates.



Face128i said:


> Great trip - looks very similiar to what I did on my European Delivery (except I was too early in the spring to enjoy the passes).
> 
> My only feedback is it appears you aren't giving yourself enough time on Day #3 & Day #4. Dachau takes 3-4 hours if you take your time going throough the exhibits, by the time you get to Salzburg it could be too late for sightseeing. You can see Salzburg in 1/2 day, very condensed city - I enjoyed the creative cemetaries tucked behind the churches (Rick Steve's city walk from his guidebook). You should consider stopping at RedBull Hanger 7 at the Salzburg Airport, it was free when I stopped and well worth the time. It's just off the highway between Salzburg and Berchtesgaden.
> 
> ...


That's the same conclusion that I've come up with. The trip starts nice and slow with time to explore Munich. Day 3 and 4 are the most compressed. I'm thinking about this as a solution since the next days are short pass driving: If I end up getting in late to Salzburg or Berchtesgaden, then I will spend a majority of the next day there before leaving and getting in late again for the next one. With a few days of short drives following, I think the time will be made up by day 9, allowing me to get into Mittenwald by early afternoon.

Agree?


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## Bikie (May 2, 2004)

I made an error Ettal Monastery is on the route from Oberammergau to Reutte not Andecks. The monks at Ettal also brew beer and have a Stube. Definitely worth a stop. If you stay at hotel Bergidyl in Pfronten be sure to eat at Gasthof Adler nearby, great food and the best looking wait staff of our whole trip.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Regarding Kitzbuhel: If you are into hiking & skiing it is a great place to do that. Otherwise I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to go there. We spent 4 days just outside of kitzbuhel last summer on our ED mostly because the wife really wanted a place where we could just chill for a few days.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Actually my sig pic is where we stayed in St Johann Im Tirol ( just outside of Kitzbuhel).


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## Trinitony (Feb 10, 2010)

The route that you have mapped from Berchtesgaden to Kitzbuhel by-passes Ramsau. Ramsau's St. Sebastian Church presents one of the prettiest views of the exterior of a church with the Alps in the background. I would recommend driving through Ramsau until you are just west of the church, then cross the little stream and you will see the church as pictured on the site below:
http://www.google.com/imgres?start=...0&tbnw=208&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:10,s:301,i:61


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## Bikie (May 2, 2004)

In Rothenburg ob der Tauber I recommend Hotel Gerberhaus great little hotel inside the walls in the quiet part of town. Garage parking available but we parked both times behind the hotel along the wall with no problems. Breakfast is great see pic.http://www.gerberhaus.rothenburg.de/ For eats go to Hell. The mittlealterliche Trinkstube "Zür Hölle" = "to Hell" is the oldest house in Rothenburg good food unbeatable atmosphere. I like Brats and Kraut but they have finer entrees and a great wine selection.http://www.hoell.rothenburg.de/


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## JustinTJ (Jun 1, 2011)

Bikie said:


> I made an error Ettal Monastery is on the route from Oberammergau to Reutte not Andecks. The monks at Ettal also brew beer and have a Stube. Definitely worth a stop. If you stay at hotel Bergidyl in Pfronten be sure to eat at Gasthof Adler nearby, great food and the best looking wait staff of our whole trip.


Definitely added Ettal to my list, perfect fit and filler for one of the shorter days of the trip.



3ismagic# said:


> Regarding Kitzbuhel: If you are into hiking & skiing it is a great place to do that. Otherwise I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to go there. We spent 4 days just outside of kitzbuhel last summer on our ED mostly because the wife really wanted a place where we could just chill for a few days.
> 
> Actually my sig pic is where we stayed in St Johann Im Tirol ( just outside of Kitzbuhel).


This is where I'm torn and it may end up a "play it by ear" detour. It really will depend on how much time we spend in Berchtesgaden that morning. It's a day with only 120 miles of driving, but I know we're going to be stopping for a lot of pictures.



Trinitony said:


> The route that you have mapped from Berchtesgaden to Kitzbuhel by-passes Ramsau. Ramsau's St. Sebastian Church presents one of the prettiest views of the exterior of a church with the Alps in the background. I would recommend driving through Ramsau until you are just west of the church, then cross the little stream and you will see the church as pictured on the site below


I will make it a point to stop there, especially since it's so close to where I'm already going to be. Thanks!



Bikie said:


> In Rothenburg ob der Tauber I recommend Hotel Gerberhaus great little hotel inside the walls in the quiet part of town. Garage parking available but we parked both times behind the hotel along the wall with no problems. Breakfast is great see pic.http://www.gerberhaus.rothenburg.de/ For eats go to Hell. The mittlealterliche Trinkstube "Zür Hölle" = "to Hell" is the oldest house in Rothenburg good food unbeatable atmosphere. I like Brats and Kraut but they have finer entrees and a great wine selection.http://www.hoell.rothenburg.de/


This is a great tip and much appreciated. Exactly the kind of place I'm looking for to spend the evening. Thank you for the excellent information.


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## Gluhwein (Aug 21, 2011)

I couldn't have done better myself!

Love the itinerary and stops along the way. I wish I could travel with two true beer lovers myself.

While in Berchtesgaden be sure to go to the Nazi Documentation Center. Absolutely fascinating and maybe the most interesting WWII site I've seen anywhere in Germany. I was more profoundly effected by my visit there than my trips to Dachau. Just seeing how the Germans bought into the whole Master Race and Hitler Gang was never really depicted at Dachau. The Documentation Center scared the hell outta me simply because I see too many of the same trends happening in today's World. Dachau tells us to "Never forget" while the Documentation Center said "We're already forgetting". There are some nice outdoor beer patios (not big enough to be Biergarten) in the pedestrian center of Berchtesgaden. On a mild summer night I'd expect there'd be plenty of hijinks available. There's a posh new hotel in the center that had a happenin' outdoor bar in mid-February. Konigsee's electric boat ride is absolutely gorgeous, but could take up a lot of your sightseeing time that would be better spent at the Salt Mine and in driving on the private toll Rossfeldstrasse high above Berchtesgaden on the Obersalzburg. Maybe consider going to see Hitler's hideaway, the Kehlsteinhaus? As for accomodations, there are literally hundreds of inexpensive, comfortable Zimmer Frei and Gasthof in the area.

Not sure I'd really go out of my way to see Kitzbuehl unless you're gonna ski. Looks like it's on your route so just drive throughand take a couple snaps.

Your visit to the Pfaffenwinkel, the area around Neuschwanstein sounds perfect - exactly what my wife and I have been doing for over thirty years. It never gets old for us. I can't decide if I love this corner of Germany or Berchtesgadenerland more. We usually see it in the white cold of Winter. I expect it's just as beautiful in the Summer, especially with the Linderhof fountains in operation.

When you go up to the Zugspitz, take the cable car from Ehrwald, Austria to the summit. The cogwheel train is less exhilarating (pretty tame) and you miss part of the view as it goes through a big tunnel. Neither is cheap. 



 . The one time we did it I it was a fairly windy day and I nearly wet myself a few times.

Rothenburg-ob-der-Tauber is a must-see. Another great spot for serious beer and wine drinking. Be sure to take the "free" Nighwatchman tour with Georg (he takes tips). I think the English tour is still at 8 pm. The Gasthof Butz is just a few steps from the town square from which the Nightwatchman departs : http://tinyurl.com/c2ve2st

You've already got a full, interesting itinerary, but if you have time in the Salzburg area you migh want to check out these wacky water fountains at Heilbrunn Palace: http://tinyurl.com/75zm6vt


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## knechtea (Mar 4, 2009)

Looks like a fun itinerary. Just ordered my 335i for ED around the same time late August early September. I'll probably take a few pointers from your well laid out plans. 

Oh, also enjoyed your Team USA video at F30post. I did the drive yesterday and it was awesome.


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## northernlights (Aug 31, 2006)

On day 6 would recommend a stay in Kastelruth at the Hotel Cavallino d'oro. It's a charming village just out of the hustle and bustle of A13. The hotel is great!


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

northernlights said:


> On day 6 would recommend a stay in Kastelruth at the Hotel Cavallino d'oro. It's a charming village just out of the hustle and bustle of A13. The hotel is great!


That area is the best,we spend 4 days there 2 weeks ago at the Varoni Hotel and did all the passo. After 4 days you tend to get enough of all the switch backs. There is no other place like the Dolomites
cheers
vern


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## JustinTJ (Jun 1, 2011)

Gluhwein said:


> I couldn't have done better myself!
> 
> Love the itinerary and stops along the way. I wish I could travel with two true beer lovers myself.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all of the great tips. I will make sure to add the doc center to the list of things to do around Berchtesgaden. It's going to be a busy part of the trip and most likely I will cut out Kitzbuehl and stay in Berchtesgaden until the start of afternoon. It's a pretty short day just driving the Gloss, so I will definitely be checking that out.

I was thinking of taking the tram up from Eibsse instead of Ehrwald. Think it's a big difference?



knechtea said:


> Looks like a fun itinerary. Just ordered my 335i for ED around the same time late August early September. I'll probably take a few pointers from your well laid out plans.
> 
> Oh, also enjoyed your Team USA video at F30post. I did the drive yesterday and it was awesome.


I set my pickup date for August 28th-September 10th. Maybe I'll see you there. Glad you enjoyed the video. I was giddy with excitement. Haven't bought a new car since the Z in early 2003.



northernlights said:


> On day 6 would recommend a stay in Kastelruth at the Hotel Cavallino d'oro. It's a charming village just out of the hustle and bustle of A13. The hotel is great!


Thank you! I have been looking for a nice place to stay for that area!



vern said:


> That area is the best,we spend 4 days there 2 weeks ago at the Varoni Hotel and did all the passo. After 4 days you tend to get enough of all the switch backs. There is no other place like the Dolomites
> cheers
> vern


Vern, your posting while there is what made me decide to work the Dolomites in post Gloss. I won't do 4 days, but it's definitely going to be included.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

JustinTJ said:


> Thanks for all of the great tips. I will make sure to add the doc center to the list of things to do around Berchtesgaden. It's going to be a busy part of the trip and most likely I will cut out Kitzbuehl and stay in Berchtesgaden until the start of afternoon. It's a pretty short day just driving the Gloss, so I will definitely be checking that out.
> 
> I was thinking of taking the tram up from Eibsse instead of Ehrwald. Think it's a big difference?
> 
> ...


I know you'll enjoy the Dolomites while there, its one of our favorite places to visit and just never get enough of it. On our way back to Munich from Wolfgangsee we took the long way and went through the Grossglockner its also a great drive. Enjoy.
cheers
vern


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## JustinTJ (Jun 1, 2011)

Ok, everything is booked except for the first two nights in Munich. Some of our favorites were already booked, others were available. The new route map is updated with hotel markings for drives. Cut Salzburg, but may take a trip in as time permits. Cut Mittenwald but may drive thru. The one question: On day 5, 6, 7, 8 the daily distances traveled is only 90-130 miles. However, these are mountain roads and passes for the most part that should take 4-6 hours of travel. Is it too much?

Route Map: https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=216907915320468243954.0004c23ac76ef29a67110&msa=0

Day 1: Arrive in Munich at 8am ***8211; BMW Museum? stroll and sleep Munich August 26 ???

Day 2: Delivery, Factory Tour ***8211; stroll and sleep Munich August 27 ???

Day 3: Dachau in AM, Drive to Berchtesgaden, stroll and sleep. Tour? August 28 Gästehaus Boehm *Booked* (102m)

Day 4: Tour Eagles nest, doc center, salt mines, Konigsee, and area. Stroll and sleep. August 29 Gästehaus Boehm *Booked* (0m)

Day 5: Drive thru Glossglockner, stop in Heiligenblut. Stroll and sleep. August 30 Chalet Hotel Senger Heiligenblut *Booked* (90m)

Day 6: Drive to Cortina d'Amprezzo, Drive Dolomite Passes. Stroll and sleep. August 31 Hotel Cavallino d ´oro, Kastelruth *Booked* (119m)

Day 7: Drive Leonhard Pass (24m), Stelvio Pass N to S side. Stop in Bormio. Stroll and sleep. September 1 Hotel San Lorenzo Bormio *Booked* (129m)

Day 8: Drive back thru Stelvio Pass, drive to Ehrwald Stroll and sleep. September 2 Hotel Stern Ehrwald *Booked* (109m)

Day 9: Drive Garmisch. Grainau. Ride up Zugspitze, Ettal Monastery, Drive to Oberammergau. Stroll and sleep. September 3 Hotel Wittelsbach Obberamergau *Booked* (26m)

Day 10: Linderhof Palace, to Reutte to Fussen. Stroll and Sleep. September 4 Hotel Garni Bergidyll Pfronten *Booked* (36m)

Day 11: Neuschwanstein, Hohenschwangau. Enjoy the town, Stroll and sleep. (0m) September 5 Hotel Garni Bergidyll Pfronten *Booked* (0m)

Day 12: Drive to Wieskirche , Head to Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Germany. Night Watch. Stroll and sleep. September 6 Hotel Garni Kreuzerhof, Rothenburg ob der Tauber *Booked* (182m)

Day 13: Drive to Wurzburg Stroll and sleep. September 7 Hotel Gruener Baum Wurzburg *Booked* (43m)

Day 14: Drive to Nurberg Ring September 8 Rieder Am Nuerburgring *Booked* (176m)

Day 14: The miles have accumulated, it's time to Ride the Ring, September 9 Rieder Am Nuerburgring *Booked* (0m, but track time!)

Day 15: Drive to Frankfurt Dropoff. Cry. September 10 Airport Hotel Global *Booked*(111m).

Day 16: Fly Home. September 11


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## DrivenByF30 (Feb 8, 2012)

I am following your thread, but i am most eager that you complete safely your journey , and bring back lots of photos to share with us


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