# 2 non-bio diesel stations, Chicago



## e90Alex (Apr 10, 2014)

I just got off the phone with the supply manager of True North, a Shell fuel supplier in Ohio. They have many dealers (stations) in Chicago but, as we know, most buy non-Shell biodiesel at a heavy discount. He did confirm for me that there are two stations on the north side selling pure diesel that they deliver directly:

4401 N. Cicero (right off the Kennedy)
3181 N. Milwaukee 

Happy pumping.


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## Concentric190 (Mar 15, 2007)

I get my diesel at either meijers or at delta sonic stations. They both carry premium diesel. You notice a gain in performance/efficiency.


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## e90Alex (Apr 10, 2014)

Thanks for the tip. Most of those stations are far from me as we live in the city, but I occasionally pass near the one in Downers on the way to Iowa to see family. Will check it out.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

Pure quality diesel in USA and Bio situation in corn subsidized midwest, main reason I'm not going to consider another high performance diesel any time soon.


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## e90Alex (Apr 10, 2014)

Interesting that you say that. My experience has been finding pure diesel in Iowa is *much* easier than in Illinois, despite the abundance of diesel-generating soybeans.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

Definitely agree, and the reason is that petrol diesel in IA is preferred by farmers to run their tractors. 
When I moved to IA, I had conversation with several "farmers" and was pointed out to good source of petrol diesel here in Marion, and also was told to stay away from some due to water content - but I never had issue either way.
I would make round trip to Chicago on one fill-up, if needed Meijers in Chicago are was my choice.

Keep in mind "pure" is very relative term when it come to diesel, and it does not necessary mean high quality.


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

I must be in the minority. I look for biodiesel blended stations. 

Have had 3 common rail diesels and several rotary pumped diesels. All ran lots of biodiesel in them. Much of it on home brewed biodiesel.

My 335d has been drinking B5-B20 for most of its life (the Sinclair truck stop it's usually filled at doesn't say exactly how much, just that it's between 5-20%). That's also what was in it for the 11.8 sec 1/4 mile pulls.


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## e90Alex (Apr 10, 2014)

TDI,

I plan to run a tank of bio once in a while, not by design but necessity. Once I've gotten use to the sound/feel/performance of the N47 running on "pure" diesel I'll hopefully be able to make some qualitative assessments about any perceivable differences. I'm aware of the benefits (lubricity, detergents, etc.) but also concerned by the manufacturer's directive to not exceed 7%. 

The general manager at the local BMW store assured me that he's seen no warranty claims denied based on biodiesel content, for what that's worth. . .


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## ScottFM (Nov 24, 2013)

e90Alex said:


> Interesting that you say that. My experience has been finding pure diesel in Iowa is *much* easier than in Illinois, despite the abundance of diesel-generating soybeans.


The reason is the state of Illinois has a bio-fuel tax exemption.


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## jruerph (Jan 24, 2014)

Foods 4 Less stores, Sam's Club and toll road oasis Mobil stations also sell non-biodiesel (at least not greater than 5%) in Chicagoland.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm with TDI on this one. Biodiesel has cetane rating of 56 and is supposed to be better for the high press pump. Chevrons in Texas say "up to" 5% biodiesel so I could be getting 0 and could be getting close to 5%. We have a near downtown company called Houston Biodiesel that I could purchase B100 to mix in with petrodiesel


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

I've read that because of the tax benefits in Illinois, anything other than B11 is hard to find. There are other states that mandate various biodiesel levels. The bottom line, however, is that any company selling cars has to make them to run on the fuel available in the market. They have no choice. So even though BMW says max B7, if they want to sell diesels in Illinois they have to accept B11. Having run a CR diesel with a max allowed at B5 on blends as high as B50 without issue, I have no concern about it in my X5. On our recent trip to Colorado dragging the travel trailer, I found myself buying a tankfull of B20 on the heels of a tankfull of B15. Both were fine. No problem. They may have contributed a little to the shorter OCI that trip caused, but I rather think most of that was really due to dragging the trailer. After all, it burns fuel twice as fast with the trailer in tow.


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## John Galt (Jul 21, 2012)

My huge concern with the bio-diesel content ratio here in the Northern Midwest is issues caused by carbon build-up. I had nearly 50,000 on my 2014 F15 35d and had major carbon build-up. Outside of factory warranty, BMW will not cover this issue and the cost for clean-up is (quoted to me by BMWNA) between $5,000-6,000, worst-case scenario. Best case, you'll be paying anywhere from $1,500-3,000 out of pocket. BMW is supposedly developing a tool and method that will clean the carbon build-up from our motors without major disassembly but this is at least a year out with development. Until then, it's a roll of the dice when it happens to all of us. 

I traded my 14' 35d on a 15' 35d and I'm at this point just kicking the can down the road another 50,000 miles, which in my world equals approximately 12-14 months. (I'm in field sales and drive A LOT). I find it unacceptable that BMW will not support their diesel technology in NA outside of their factory warranty for a KNOWN defect. Their response to me on all of this (through the director of the service dept I use) was: tell the customer to consider it like having to do a tune up on a gasoline-powered vehicle. I couldn't f'ing believe that was their response... This is the fifth new BMW the wife and I purchased in five years, and if they don't get their act together in supporting us diesel owners, it will be my last.

-John


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## jruerph (Jan 24, 2014)

John Galt said:


> My huge concern with the bio-diesel content ratio here in the Northern Midwest is issues caused by carbon build-up. I had nearly 50,000 on my 2014 F15 35d and had major carbon build-up. Outside of factory warranty, BMW will not cover this issue and the cost for clean-up is (quoted to me by BMWNA) between $5,000-6,000, worst-case scenario. Best case, you'll be paying anywhere from $1,500-3,000 out of pocket. BMW is supposedly developing a tool and method that will clean the carbon build-up from our motors without major disassembly but this is at least a year out with development. Until then, it's a roll of the dice when it happens to all of us.
> 
> I traded my 14' 35d on a 15' 35d and I'm at this point just kicking the can down the road another 50,000 miles, which in my world equals approximately 12-14 months. (I'm in field sales and drive A LOT). I find it unacceptable that BMW will not support their diesel technology in NA outside of their factory warranty for a KNOWN defect. Their response to me on all of this (through the director of the service dept I use) was: tell the customer to consider it like having to do a tune up on a gasoline-powered vehicle. I couldn't f'ing believe that was their response... This is the fifth new BMW the wife and I purchased in five years, and if they don't get their act together in supporting us diesel owners, it will be my last.
> 
> -John


Actually carbon build-up is more a manifestation of direct injection than biodiesel and is also prevalent in petrol engines. I've seen some owners dismiss the potential impact of biodiesel but blends above 5% can certainly cause a detrimental amount of engine sludge:

Biodiesel can seep into the crankcase of a diesel engine, form acids and degrade into "gunky, goopy" sludge, says William Woebkenberg, fuels policy director for Mercedes-Benz USA. The sludge can coat intercoolers, exhaust gas recirculation valves and engine and turbocharger bearings, putting a driver at risk of an engine failure.

"Once you sludge an engine, there's no going back," Woebkenberg says. "There's no magical stuff that you can pour into the top of the engine and flush it all away."

My car ownership philosophy is to lease German luxury cars and keep a older low maintenance Japanese import for my daily driver. So I could probably get away with running the B11 blends prevalent here and not have to deal with the potential long term ramifications. But, there are a variety of potential high cost maintenance ramifications that come with ownership of most German luxury cars beyond the manufacturer or CPO warranty. Which is why I lease for 3-4 years and turn them in before sh*t hits the fan and I'm stuck with a huge repair bill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMhNXXawjk


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## John Galt (Jul 21, 2012)

jruerph said:


> Actually carbon build-up is more a manifestation of direct injection than biodiesel and is also prevalent in petrol engines. I've seen some owners dismiss the potential impact of biodiesel but blends above 5% can certainly cause a detrimental amount of engine sludge:
> 
> Biodiesel can seep into the crankcase of a diesel engine, form acids and degrade into "gunky, goopy" sludge, says William Woebkenberg, fuels policy director for Mercedes-Benz USA. The sludge can coat intercoolers, exhaust gas recirculation valves and engine and turbocharger bearings, putting a driver at risk of an engine failure.
> 
> ...


Mandated biodiesel in the region is between 5 and 20%. My experience was directly related to carbon build-up, directly related, according to BMW NA to percentage of biodiesel. Couple that with direct injection, or whatever, I had a major issue that required 37 days of the vehicle in for service to have the intake manifold cleaned of carbon build-up. That was _MY_ experience. Others may find something different but I can tell without a certainty of a doubt that running high-content bio-diesel in our diesels will cause carbon build-up which will influence the engine at some point in the life of the vehicle.

Regarding driving a Japanese import as a daily driver, that works for you but I sure as hell will just "pay to play" and enjoy "the ultimate driving experience" every day on the road... Or perhaps I'm just nuts!


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Carbon buildup is not a problem exclusive to BMWs, either gas or diesel. Both my 2001 Jetta TDI and my 2005 Jeep Libby CRD have this issue. The TDI is not even a common rail diesel, although it is direct injected. The VW had the intake manifold clog to the point that the air passage was about the size of a pencil, and getting it to run above 2500 rpm was impossible. The Jeep showed evidence the phenomenon was starting at 11,000 miles. In the case of the Jeep, I rerouted the CCV hose through a Provent oil separator, and have had no further issue with CBU in the 189,000 miles since then.

In both the VW and Jeep communities, the evidence is clear: CBU is a function of EGR bringing soot into the intake, and the CCV adding engine oil. Get rid of either component, and CBU goes away. The most environmentally sound way is to do a much better job of separating oil from the crankcase gases. Shutting down the EGR increases NOx emissions. Venting the crankcase to the atmosphere increases hydrocarbon emissions. So add the likes of a Provent and return the oil whence it came, to the crankcase.

As for the biodiesel, it is true that concentrations above the 5-7% range might well shorten the useful life of engine oil. In engines that regenerate a DPF by late injection of diesel to the exhaust stream such as BMW's, this is a risk. But it is a problem largely for those who always use higher biodiesel concentrations, and only if they choose to not change the engine oil more often. My recent experience dragging the trailer suggests that whatever BMW uses to inform the ECU that an oil change is needed, it should be heeded.

I have seen no evidence of the sludge issue in either the TDI or the CRD, but then neither of them has a DPF, and thus is at very little risk. The TDI has 170,000 miles on the ticker, about 50,000 of which were on B20-B100. The CRD has 200,000 miles with about 30,000 on B20-B50.

I'm currently living in a state where biodiesel is not mandated, and is actually hard to find. Thus it is unlikely the BMW will see more than the very occasional tankful of any bio blend.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

A TDI owner with an clogged IM has not done diligence due. ALH TDI clogged IM is cured with software reduced EGR duty-cycle and a heavy foot.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

I recently moved to chicago and do lot of driving in IA, IL and MO region. I searched online for any specific mandates around bio diesel regulation in IA, IL and MO and didnt yield any results. All I could find is http://www.c2es.org/us-states-regions/policy-maps/biofuels

So far one of the store pump guys told me Hyvee pumps (except for MN) dont use any blend so I am restricting myself to those pumps.


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## Husker4theSpurs (Feb 20, 2014)

We are on a road trip for the holidays and once in Minnesota we needed diesel and the pump stated "diesel between B5 and B20" ... I needed fuel so I went ahead and filled up with it, but I would imagine we should not use this high of a % of biodiesel in general, correct? I know the owner's manual says not to use above 5% so hopefully nothing too major comes of this.


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## MnRiverman (Feb 21, 2010)

Husker4theSpurs said:


> We are on a road trip for the holidays and once in Minnesota we needed diesel and the pump stated "diesel between B5 and B20" ... I needed fuel so I went ahead and filled up with it, but I would imagine we should not use this high of a % of biodiesel in general, correct? I know the owner's manual says not to use above 5% so hopefully nothing too major comes of this.


Minnesota diesel in cold weather (winter) is not B20 but B5 or so (supposedly). I still buy the majority of my diesel in Wisconsin where they have pure diesel, as do most OTR truckers when they can.


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