# Manifolds?



## SupraRZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I was wondering what people do in terms of Manifolds? I hear you can purchase Euro manifolds to get about 10hp, but how many people actually go this route? I'm looking around for one, and the only other one is the Supersprint one for $1800... a whole heck of a lot for a freaken manifold....


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SupraRZ said:


> *I was wondering what people do in terms of Manifolds? I hear you can purchase Euro manifolds to get about 10hp, but how many people actually go this route? I'm looking around for one, and the only other one is the Supersprint one for $1800... a whole heck of a lot for a freaken manifold.... *


Are you talking about for E46 M3s? And are you talking about the exhaust?

If the answer to either is NO, please elaborate.

If the answer to both is YES: The US E46 M3 already comes with headers. But due to the US cold start emissions requirements, the cats are actually in the headers. The Euro exhaust moves the cats back behind the headers.

The difference in power is actually only 5 HP. The US cars are rated in SAE Net HP (333) and the Euro cars in DIN HP (343), the coversion from on to the other is about 5 HP. So 333 SAE Net = 338 DIN, and 343 DIN = 338 SAE Net. So eigther way the difference is only 5 HP.

Yes, Supersprint makes headers, and they are costly, but you will find most aftermarket parts for these cars are somewhat expensive. And horsepower improvements are very costly, and potentially void the warranty on the engine.

The SS setup (complete exhaust system) has the potential to make more power than the Euro setup.


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## SupraRZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, it's for a E46 M3. Yeah, those cats are evil. Whenever I get a car with more than 1 cat, I'll usually get rid of all but one, or replace them all with a high flow. Does anyone have experience with Supersprint? I'm actually thinking of having a shop fabricate my own manifold using the stock one...


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SupraRZ said:


> *Yep, it's for a E46 M3. Yeah, those cats are evil. Whenever I get a car with more than 1 cat, I'll usually get rid of all but one, or replace them all with a high flow. Does anyone have experience with Supersprint? I'm actually thinking of having a shop fabricate my own manifold using the stock one... *


Cats are not that evil. On the M3 remving them entirely gains a litlte HP, but not magically.

You have to realise that the engine is already very highly tuned and pretty well optimized.

As for custom headers, I am sure that it will cost more than any of the other solutions.

I have heard good things about the SS headers. But again, the stock system is very good.


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## SupraRZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm trying to get the custom headers for a little more than half the price of the SS headers. If the prototype works well, the price can go lower if they make more than 1. I won't remove the cats, but a random high flow should be the answer i think, along with an exhaust to get rid of the honda sound


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SupraRZ said:


> *I'm trying to get the custom headers for a little more than half the price of the SS headers. If the prototype works well, the price can go lower if they make more than 1. I won't remove the cats, but a random high flow should be the answer i think, along with an exhaust to get rid of the honda sound  *


The rasp comes fromt eh Double VANOS system, not the exhaust.

And I am very sceptical that you can get good custom headers , that really work, for half the price of something like the SS ones.


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## SupraRZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Most of the price is from the massive amounts of markup that people charge. In the Supra aftermarket, many companies market several aftermarket single turbos kits ranging from $3000-$8000 per kit, yielding anywhere from 500rwhp to 900rwhp. These kits all require unique manifolds which needs to be custom made. But as long as the jigs are properly setup, it is not hard at all to make a good custom manifold. The materials are all pretty much the same from a Honda $200 headers to a $1500 HKS turbo manifold for Supras, it's just the quality of the jig, the type of materials (depending on show factor and location) and the amount of time to make.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SupraRZ said:


> *Most of the price is from the massive amounts of markup that people charge. In the Supra aftermarket, many companies market several aftermarket single turbos kits ranging from $3000-$8000 per kit, yielding anywhere from 500rwhp to 900rwhp. These kits all require unique manifolds which needs to be custom made. But as long as the jigs are properly setup, it is not hard at all to make a good custom manifold. The materials are all pretty much the same from a Honda $200 headers to a $1500 HKS turbo manifold for Supras, it's just the quality of the jig, the type of materials (depending on show factor and location) and the amount of time to make. *


But the cost comes from doing the prototype (sometimes several of them to get it right) and the jig (NOT cheap).

So all that is not markup, it is recovering sunk R&D costs. And those costs have to be amortized over how many you might sell.


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## SupraRZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> *But the cost comes from doing the prototype (sometimes several of them to get it right) and the jig (NOT cheap).
> 
> So all that is not markup, it is recovering sunk R&D costs. And those costs have to be amortized over how many you might sell. *


I'll be finding out exact numbers shortly. I needed a custom manifold for a turbo kit for my Supra, and my friend's shop quoted about half the price of SS for polished stainless steel. Since the Manifold on a E46 is not as important as a show item, the price should be cheaper. We'll see though!


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