# Should BMW have a FWD car?



## S93D (Apr 24, 2008)

How about a BMW 2 series? It would be about the same size as a 3 series but have FWD. FWD would make it reasonably good for winter so that the RWD car could be used for the other seasons. Base engine could be a 2.0 litre 16 valve 4 cylinder turbo putting out about 190 hp. Europe could have a 1.6 litre version and a diesel. It could be practical, like having a hatchback, but be slow slung, not a SUV or crossover. Pricewise, about $3,000 less than a 328i. Perhaps it could get 22 mpg city/29 highway?

This could be a 2nd car for people. It would be practical and economical, but not be so weird, like an electric car. It would also be bigger than a MINI.


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## Yorgi (Mar 17, 2005)

FWD FTL. 

If you want FWD buy an Acura. Personally I would recommend AWD if you want a safe winter car. An Audi A4 touring or a WRX are good choices.


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## Ryan... (Dec 16, 2008)

If people want FWD, there are a thousand other brands out there providing boring, non-enthusiast geared cars for daily driving.


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## S93D (Apr 24, 2008)

Ryan... said:


> If people want FWD, there are a thousand other brands out there providing boring, non-enthusiast geared cars for daily driving.


But few FWD for the enthusiast. Audi is one of the few. Saab is another.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Like it or not this is going to happen. The first BMW powered MINI went on sale a few weeks ago.

Look for a BMW and MINI to share a platform. Possibly there will be a BMW on the same platform as the Countryman.


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## bulwinkl24 (Feb 16, 2009)

S93D said:


> But few FWD for the enthusiast. Audi is one of the few. Saab is another.


I think it's a stretch if not absurd to consider Saab a car for enthusiasts.


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## krsabs (Apr 22, 2011)

bulwinkl24 said:


> I think it's a stretch if not absurd to consider Saab a car for enthusiasts.


with all respect, you are clueless on this one.


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## Yorgi (Mar 17, 2005)

bulwinkl24 said:


> I think it's a stretch if not absurd to consider Saab a car for enthusiasts.


Agreed. Not to mention I think Saab are done for good. Spyker bought them off GM in 2010 with help from the government but they have run out of money a few times now and the Swedish government is no longer willing to help.

FWD cars for enthusiasts: The original Integra Type-R and the Mini Cooper S, and maybe the Mazda Speed 3 and the VW GTI. That's it.


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## Yorgi (Mar 17, 2005)

krsabs said:


> with all respect, you are clueless on this one.


I don't understand what all the hype is over Saabs. The owners seem to be fiercely loyal to the brand for some reason. Every Saab I've driven drove like crap.


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## jordan16j (Mar 7, 2011)

Only driven one Saab but it seemed very bland. A Lexus would have been more fun not to mention more reliable and probably cheaper . You're right that they do have a small but fiercely loyal base. I don't get it... 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Bimmer App


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## kmorgan_260 (Jul 9, 2010)

No point in a FWD BMW and BTW they do fine in winter with the right tires. I was able to get to work this past winter when some of my friends with AWD vehicles struggled due to their all season tires.


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## mujjuman (Feb 2, 2009)

No!


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## S93D (Apr 24, 2008)

Yorgi said:


> Agreed. Not to mention I think Saab are done for good. Spyker bought them off GM in 2010 with help from the government but they have run out of money a few times now and the Swedish government is no longer willing to help.
> 
> FWD cars for enthusiasts: The original Integra Type-R and the Mini Cooper S, and maybe the Mazda Speed 3 and the VW GTI. That's it.


From what I read, they just got a cash injection of roughly $100M from several investors. I don't know the exact names but one sounded like Gemini and another was a mainland Chinese car dealership chain.

As far as the list of FWD for enthusiasts, if that is the standard, then most BMWs are not enthusiasts' cars. Certainly the X3 isn't one. I know. I drive a X3. How about a 528i? Not an enthusiasts' car if the standard is the MINI Cooper S and Integra Type-R. That's not my standard. My standard is that all BMWs are enthusiasts' cars but that a few, like the M3 are even more so.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

Simple answer: NO. 

BMW survives by being different - offering something the cheaper brands don't. It'd be hard to justify a FWD BMW over a Honda Civic Si or VW GTI.


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## krsabs (Apr 22, 2011)

Yorgi said:


> I don't understand what all the hype is over Saabs. The owners seem to be fiercely loyal to the brand for some reason. Every Saab I've driven drove like crap.


Your Saab driving experience was obviously constrained to a GM made 'Saab', to a current Spyker model, or to one of the early 2 stroke models. 
When I personally rave about Saabs (and admittedly, I do rave), I speak from my experience with the 9000 model. The 9000 weighed several hundred pounds less, yet had more interior room than a 5 series bimmer. 
The 9000 was a Car + Driver 10 Best pick from 1986 through 1989; note that the first time BMW ever made it to the Car + Driver Best list was in 1992. But here's some quotes about the 9000: 
Car + Driver 1986 10 Best comment: "a true Ten Best-grade sports sedan. Could we tempt you with a 0-60 time of 7.5 seconds? How about a top speed of 141 mph? Would you believe 21 EPA city mpg?" (Note: this was as good as or better than the 198x 325 bimmer.)
Car + Driver 1987 10 Best comment: "Easily the best-looking Saab of the century, the 9000 is also the fastest. It will clock 140 mph without panting, and you don't need the Bonneville Salt Flats to achieve terminal velocity. The poise at extralegal speeds is remarkable; the comfort at any speed is practically flawless. You sit tall on supportive seats and view the road across a seamless expanse of wind-tunnel-shaped sheet metal. The cockpit is ergonomically correct, and the interior is as roomy as a Pullman."
Car + Driver 1989 10 Best comment: "As a stealth bomber flying low on the Interstate or as dignified in-town transportation for real grown-ups on their way to important social functions, the Saab 9000 Turbo serves well and faithfully. Few cars in our experience can offer that combination in a package as pleasantly well turned out as this one."
The climate control systems on most high end cars today are based upon the Saab design of filtered cabin air, humidity controlled by always-on AC blended with heat. I've also heard, but am not totally sure that Saab had the first seat heater, the first auto-down windows, the first headlight wipers.
Saab was a great, reliable car (e.g.: I currently have a 17 year old 9000 which still has a lot of life yet), then GM came along. What they are offering now blows, in my estimation.


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## Yorgi (Mar 17, 2005)

krsabs said:


> Your Saab driving experience was obviously constrained to a GM made 'Saab', to a current Spyker model, or to one of the early 2 stroke models.
> ...


I've driven many many Saabs.

My first was a 9000 back in 1986 when I was helping a well-off friend of mine shop for a car for his mother. The 9000 was very unrefined and noisy compared to the other cars we were looking at, including the Volvo 760, Audi 5000 and BMW 535i. (she bought the Audi)

Next was a buddy in high school who bought an old '70s Saab 99. That thing felt like a kit car.

Since then I have driven dozens of Saabs on the track as an instructor at the Saab Club of Canada driver education days. Several BMW club instructors also do the Saab days and we get to drive owners cars to show them the line if they are beginners. I personally feel no Saab comes remotely close to any BMW sedan when they are pushed hard. Even a 7 series is more fun to drive than a Saab.

Sorry, no offense to all the die-hard Saab fans but that's my experience. :drive:

[EDIT] PS - don't believe anything you read in the major car mags; they are heavily biased due to advertising. I base this on what I _know_ vs what I _read_ in the mags. Mags are good for entertainment value - sort of like Top Gear.


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## bulwinkl24 (Feb 16, 2009)

krsabs said:


> with all respect, you are clueless on this one.


"With all respect", you most likely disagree because you're not a true driving enthusiast and wouldn't understand that Saab's are simply bland.


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## krsabs (Apr 22, 2011)

Again clueless - but funny. That 'enthusiast' pose is likely as valid as the pose that professes to know something - indeed anything - about me.


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## Collie1 (Feb 28, 2011)

I would love for the 3 series diesel to be a FWD car.


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## mhs525 (Mar 9, 2007)

BMW should NOT build FWD cars, their FWD models are called Mini's...

A FWD 3 series is an oxymoron. The 3 series would not be on C&D's 10 best every year if it was FWD. It would be impossible for maintain the near perfect 50/50 F/R weight ratio with a FWD drive train.


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## Jashley73 (Mar 28, 2011)

I personally think it would be counter-intuitive to sell or buy a FWD BMW. Why pay the premium for a car from a manufacturer that prides itself on being "The Ultimate Driving Machine," only for it to be a dumbed-down, nose heavy, under-steering, over-engineered, cheap piece of crap with a roundel stuck on the hood? Sorry, but go buy a VW if that's what you're looking for. If it's a BMW FWD car that you're looking for, then buy a MINI. (Sorry I'm ranting a little...) Seriously, I'd say that any "Enthusiast" is aware enough to buy a RWD car for it's RWD qualities. And I've yet to see any "Enthusiast" long for a FWD because of it's qualities, and there's a reason for that. When Formula 1 starts rolling out FWD race teams, let me know...

"Cool" FWD cars exist for another reason; not because FWD was the end product of an engineering search for superior performance driving. "Cool" FWD cars are simply worked over versions of their cheap, mass-marketed, white-bread models, aimed to be slighlty more exciting than the base model, while still being affordable to (young) buyers to whom these cars are marketed. Cars such as the SRT4 Neon, Civic Si, SVT Focus, and even the beloved Integra Type R fall (fell) into this category. BMW has no reasonable way of competing with these for a couple reasons. One: Most people who go after a BMW for a cool, fun to drive car, do so because they are seeking a RWD car, thus end at a BMW. Two: Price. Think BMW would market at true BMW branded car it could be proud of at a competitive price to other small cars? No, and any attempt at such a car would probably cheapen the branding. I don't think BMW, at least in the US, is willing to damage the brand and lose their "Prestige." From a buisness and marketing perspective, the best possible scenario is that which BMW is currently doing; make a unique FWD vehicle branded under another name, from which they can reap the profits, without damaging the branding of the BMW name. Hence, MINI. Honestly, I think perfect for them, and I believe it should stay this way...

And honestly, who would buy one of these for an "Extra" or "Winter" car? Seriously, what world do you live in? If I wanted a winter car, I'd get an Xi model, or an X5/X3... (Some folks like myself would just put snow-tires on their RWD and have fun  ) And If I wanted an "extra" car, It would be a Z4 or other roadster, not some boring FWD car with nothing to offer but more boring, boring, boring... Goodness people we buy BMW's for a reason, and it sure as heck isn't so we can buy a less-reliable german-made civic...


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## Stanley45 (Jun 15, 2011)

It could have FWD car and i have no such exact information but i want to know about it because information must be gotten from wherever it is taken.


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## RiDE (Jun 1, 2006)

> Four out of five BMW 1-series drivers think their car is front-wheel drive, according to the firm's CEO Norbert Reithofer.


http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/248407/

:rofl:

Hence...

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539036

:tsk:


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## mujjuman (Feb 2, 2009)

Noobs


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLry6Cn_D4&hd=1]width="640" height="390">[/flash]


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