# $5000 for a carwash.



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Amusing video. If I could market myself like this guy, I'd think it be fun to make $5k a day detailing exotic cars. Maybe I can moonlight on the weekends.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Yes, very good indeed. 

How stupid is that though, he was washing the car in the sun?


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## gbelton (Aug 3, 2003)

*Insane*

Wow! Now that's how you wash a car!

I wanna go in that business as an investor!

Thanks for sharing.

GMAN


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

BmW745On19's said:


> Yes, very good indeed.
> 
> How stupid is that though, he was washing the car in the sun?


That's okay, remember, he drove it into his shop for the the waxing.

Incidently, what's that wax he used? With him rubbing his hands with it, and applying it by hand, I just felt like I was watching a show on beauty parlors.


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## gbelton (Aug 3, 2003)

*The REAL 'Carnuba'*

Carnuba wax... Expensive too. I bought Zymol Carnuba from BAVAUTO.com, it is perfect man, PERFECT!

Did you say you were coming down to the Sharkfest or the Northeast 6er meet next weekend?

GMAN


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## eric77 (Mar 8, 2006)

Its not 5k a day. If he needs to have a car for a week then it will be up to 5k. It appears he makes more like 1k a day which ain't bad at all. He is definitely good, but all that zymol stuff is garbage.


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## silverstar (Apr 21, 2006)

hello,
I am new here. Hope to learn lots and share lots of good information with you guys. Not sure if anyone knows this but Zymol was bought out this year by Turtle Wax, who by the way is owned by Shell Oil Co. So that person may be using the most expensive Turtle Wax on the market and not know it. I just hope the Turtle Wax Co. doesn't start messing with the Zymol formula.


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## gbelton (Aug 3, 2003)

*Zymol Garbage?*



eric77 said:


> but all that zymol stuff is garbage.


Can you share with us your reason for the comment above. I would like to better understand your thoughts and experience.

GMAN


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## eric77 (Mar 8, 2006)

gbelton said:


> Can you share with us your reason for the comment above. I would like to better understand your thoughts and experience.
> 
> GMAN


I guess those are too harsh of words. For the price, there is such better stuff out there that I dont know why anyone would purchase zymol... The way he pushes all his stuff and the price just bothers me.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

eric77 said:


> I guess those are too harsh of words. For the price, there is such better stuff out there that I dont know why anyone would purchase zymol... The way he pushes all his stuff and the price just bothers me.


Hmmm, there are better products, but for the deepness of the shine, nothing can compare to a zymol wax. For a lasting shine, yes there are better things like synthetic products "AHEM, *zaino* AHEM".

I've tried the Zymol Vintage (the "$10K" wax, which is really $1.5k, which includes free refills for life) nothing can quite describe the shine it gives to your vehicle, it is oh so pretty, but I never really justified buying it since I never do wax the cars that much

My new technique- clay, polish w/ zaino and a ROB, then apply a coat of zymol concours for more protection/deeper shine, very beautiful results.:thumbup: :thumbup:

Plus, he seems to make good money doing it, so more power too him.


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

eric77 said:


> Its not 5k a day. If he needs to have a car for a week then it will be up to 5k. It appears he makes more like 1k a day which ain't bad at all. He is definitely good, but all that zymol stuff is garbage.


How do you know for sure it was Zymol?


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

See for yourself- Zymol Vintage:thumbup:


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

According to the guy's website, it's a zymol wax I have never heard of, it's called Zymol Royale. Link


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## Elvis530i (Feb 13, 2006)

Man, for $5000, I want naked porn stars washing my car.  

I don't care how much marketing hype you lather on it, you can't convince me any wax is worth $10,000+ a pot.


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

SmoothCruise said:


> Amusing video. If I could market myself like this guy, I'd think it be fun to make *$5k* a day detailing exotic cars. Maybe I can moonlight on the weekends.


First of all, that "five grand" I think is 5K GBP (British Pound Sterling), so it's a helluva lot more than $5K USD!

Granted he does a pretty thorough job compared to your average "detail"... but come on, he didn't even remove the wheels! WtF? Even I take the wheels off if I'm doing a "complete detail". And I didn't see him go near the undercarriage.

And an _orbital_ polisher? :nono: They invented a brand new tool (the "random-orbit" polisher) just because of the flaws it leaves. And just your standard Makita? I didn't hear him brag about how much that one costs! :rofl:

But I guess if you have the cash for a Bugatti Veyron it's just an excercise in self-validation to pay nearly $10,000.00 for a carwash.

--J.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

JonathanIT said:


> And an _orbital_ polisher? :nono: They invented a brand new tool (the "random-orbit" polisher) just because of the flaws it leaves. And just your standard Makita? I didn't hear him brag about how much that one costs! :rofl:


It's a random orbital check it out- Link yeah, its Griots Garage branded but its the same thing except with a different cover...


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

BmW745On19's said:


> It's a random orbital check it out- Link yeah, its Griots Garage branded but its the same thing except with a different cover...


Nah... I don't buy it. If you look closely at the head on that Makita in the video... it's definitely rotating! It looks closer to this one.

BTW, Amazon has a really excellent deal on the Porter-Cable #7424 ($119.95 as of this posting, but subject to change). No tax, free shipping, and a really good price. I just ordered one yesterday.

:thumbup:

--J.


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## Boxboss (Dec 25, 2005)

BmW745On19's said:


> See for yourself- Zymol Vintage:thumbup:





BmW745On19's said:


> According to the guy's website, it's a zymol wax I have never heard of, it's called Zymol Royale.


Actually, he uses both according to his website. There's a 100 GBP upcharge to use the Royale (73% carnauba) instead of the Vintage (61% carnauba). He's made a great investment if it truly is free lifetime replacement. Large one time up front fee, charge your customers $100, $250, $500 or whatever for a wax then have the product replaced at no cost!


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

5000 British Pounds = 8,898.5 United States Dollars

Yes, he is washing the car in the sun, so you already know how great his work is.

The wax he used is Zymol Royal, which is priced about $7000 on amazon.com.

It's a carnauba wax.

He is making 5000 British Pounds for that level of detailing. But he isn't that great. There are people who place significantly more care and effort into their work.

He is using a circular polisher.

Here are the problems:
He details in the sun;
He cleans using circular motions;
He is definitely inducing swirls with his technique thus he is forced to polished the problems back out using a circular polisher;
He is ripping people off


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## silverstar (Apr 21, 2006)

allaboutme said:


> 5000 British Pounds = 8,898.5 United States Dollars
> 
> Yes, he is washing the car in the sun, so you already know how great his work is.
> 
> ...


Agree with you all the way, Plus, I think Zymol is ripping people off also. The are a whole bunch of car care products on the market that work great, and for a lot less money.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

silverstar said:


> Plus, I think Zymol is ripping people off also. The are a whole bunch of car care products on the market that work great, and for a lot less money.


Like???

Have you seen his before and after pictures on his website? They are phenomenal.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

I guarantee you that I can take a picture of my car right now to fool you into thinking it's the cleanest and shiniest thing you've ever seen. Pictures don't tell the real story about the condition of the paint.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

allaboutme said:


> I guarantee you that I can take a picture of my car right now to fool you into thinking it's the cleanest and shiniest thing you've ever seen. Pictures don't tell the real story about the condition of the paint.


No kidding?!

Thats why in his pictures on his site that he has those two big lights and close up high resolution pictures.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

Sir,
I don't consider an 800x600 image to be high resolution as you have.

The man knows what he is doing, but so do thousands of others who can and will do similar work for a fraction of the cost this man charges.

Take a true high res picture with more than 4 million pixels in macro mode with halogen and incandescent lights saturating the car with light. That is the only way I'll be convinced the paint is perfect if pictures are my only source to judge his work by.

Then, under the same conditions at the exact same camera angle take a picture with and without wax. If there is a difference in shine then I'll concede that wax works to produce a shine.

Do you know why wax creates a shine for so many people? Wax acts as a filler to mask thin scratches to attempt to create a level paint. If the paint were level to begin with, wax has no function.

There are still times when people wax their cars and swirls are still there and may even be more apparant than before because wax may act to accentuate those scratches.

If you are buying wax for the shining properties, then that is your money to waste in my opinion.

Have you ever noticed that after waxing, the car collects even more dust? That's a result of all the rubbing that takes place, creating a static. A car stays cleaner longer without wax.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Sir,

I don't care how high of resolution it is, point is the man obviously has a good customer base willing to pay that kind of money for the results he produces. I don't blame him for charging that money, if I had 1 car a week and I charge them $5k to do the car, that's a pretty decenty salary, anyless and your starting to loose money for your time and sweat.

I buy wax for it's protection qualities and how it gives depth to a car's paint. Not putting wax on a car is stupid, you are loosing the clear coat every time the car is out in the sun and it will eventually peel away like a banana peel.

I buy acrylic sealants to remove the swirls and give it _shine_.

Yes there are times when waxing a car makes swirls more evident, wax is not designed to remove/conceal swirls, polish is, thats why he has a oribital and polishing compound, to take just a tiny bit of clear coat off to get all those nasty scratches out, and to prevent any more scatches from getting to the paint, you wax it.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

Sir,
First, read this: http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e46m3/7646139-1.html

Second, I have a 20 year old car that has never seen wax and the clear coat is still there though a bit scratched up from laziness in washing and drying it. It is not flaking. Where would you even come up with such an idea?

How would sealants remove swirls? Sealants, by their nature, seal the surface. If anything they fill any scratches already there. Do you have any type of tile at home? Marble or granite are hard hard surfaces... much harder than a cars paint. You can seal it all you want but they'll get scratched one way or another. Admittedly they get walked on everyday, but the point is the same... No product applied tot he paint will protect it from getting rubbed against from a person walking too close or improperlyw ashing techniques. In fact, everytime you wash your car you will undoubtedly introduce micro scratches to the paint.

How does a wax prevent scratches? Scratches appear for a few obvious reasons: washing incorrectly, drying incorrectly, objects rubbing against the car, objects striking the car...If you measure the depth of the wax on your paint, you will know that a .001 micro layer of wax will not protect the paint from anything.

Yes, he has a great customer base and is making a bunch of money, so good for him. But you don't need to charge $5k a week to make money off detailing. Doing one car a day at $150-300 depending on where you live would easily support a humble lifestyle.

You are apparently spending money on products, so I understand you are justifying your purchase. But I'm telling you from extensive experience that wax doesn't do anything in terms of shine or protection.

An anecdote for you: I know a friend of a friend who owns several detailing establishments, so he is quite mainstream. Before he started his business, he was a professional mobile detailer, so he knew his products as well as the person in the UK does. He realized how much could be made in detailing so he pursued the profession but he soon realized something: people will buy into anything as long as it's marketted right.

He once asked me if I wanted to detail my car and said he'd put on a nice thick layer of wax for me to which he laughed. When I asked him why he laughed, he told me this: his wax packages are his biggest sellers and from which he makes the most profit. But waxes in general are a joke, and he knows and most professionals he deals with knows. He uses them because people expect it and don't think about how the idea behind waxing is flawed to begin with. A layer of wax at the micron level is so insignificant you are wasting your time trying to apply it for the purpose of protection or shine.

Before my encounter with this guy, I had my own preconceptions that waxes were a waste of money. Hearing from a professional only proved to me I was right. He relates waxes to car alarms... They don't work but they give a false sense of protection, but that is enough for most people.

I'm not asking or telling you to stop waxing your cars. I'm just telling you the truth here and if you refuse to believe me then so be it.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Sir,

Let me rephrase myself, polishing compound along with a random orbital takes out microscratches if done correctly. THEN you seal it to protect it for around 5-6 months and add some wax to possibly protect it even more from harmful UV rays (not from scratching) damaging your paint.

I'm very happy for you that you have had your car for 20 years and it's paint isn't pealing away, this is possibly because some cars don't have clear coats, others do, tomarrow I will snap some photos of an old custom suburban we have that never got waxed and it's clearcoat IS peeling away as we speak.

Waxes are not a waste of money, they prevent harmful UV rays from damaging the paint (blah blah blah, you get the point)....


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

Sir, 
I never disagreed that polishing compound doesn't work. It does. It works best with an orbital polisher, not a ROB as those lack the ability to heat the paint enough to remove the hardest scratches.

My car does have a clearcoat, so I seem to have put a hole in your argument? Perhaps you used some acidic cleaners like those drive-throughs at gas stations and that began stripping away your clear coat? I don't know but most clear coats don't just peel unless something truly damaging was exposed to it.

I have an idea that you are just spouting what others are telling you about the benefits of waxes.

Some paints are just susceptible to damages. Take, for instance, the 1993 model of the Mazda RX-7. The red paint on those cars were poorly created, so they quickly oxidized. However, the same car in black or blue had no problems.

There are so many products out there that are nothing more than examples of marketing successes. Wheel cleaners are such useless product, for example. I have cleaned countless wheels and have never had trouble removing brake dust with jsut water and a sponge. If there are any troubles some soap will solve the problems 99% of the time. For the hardest bits, clay and klasse aio cleaner work wonders. I have never used a wheel cleaner that worked as advertised where you spray and watch the brake dust dissolve.

We can always arrange a demonstration to put this all to rest. If there are two cars in the same color (preferably black), we can have them professionally detailed where the paints are level, which will make the paint as good as perfect as it will ever get. Then, we'll have a blind test where one will get waxed and one left alone. We can make it double blind if you wish. We'll then invite anyone and everyone to see them in person (or through pictures but as I said pictures can't show much), and finally put this argument to a rest. I will tell you that my money is on people believing both cars are waxed or going 50/50 with the correct car being waxed. 

We'll invite people from different detailing boards.. this, autopia, roadfly... and people with no interest in cars. 

And as a reminder, this isn't to determine whether or not wax has any protective qualities. This test will only prove that wax has no aesthetic qualities.

What we would need for this test: two exactly similar cars since different cars reflect light differently. Both cars will also need similar levels of clear coats since that may affect the shine.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

What are you trying to prove here with your 'test'?


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

Sir, I gave the reason for this test in my post. I said many things in my posts to which you didn't respond. 

It'll be a fun test regardless of results. But I warn you the results will be... shocking to you.


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## Boxboss (Dec 25, 2005)

Sirs,

Why do people wax skis? Why do they make waxed floss? No doubt, wax does something. From a purely subjective point of view, I can _see_ a difference when I wax my cars. I put 2 coats of Zaino on my Diamond Pearl Caddy this weekend - first "wax" since I bought it Oct '05 - and the reflection and sparkle of the "metalflake" was noticeably improved. Yes, this is subjective, I like the appearance with "wax" as opposed to without, and that's what counts.


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## Boxboss (Dec 25, 2005)

allaboutme said:


> Wheel cleaners are such useless product, for example. I have cleaned countless wheels and have never had trouble removing brake dust with jsut water and a sponge. If there are any troubles some soap will solve the problems 99% of the time. For the hardest bits, clay and klasse aio cleaner work wonders. I have never used a wheel cleaner that worked as advertised where you spray and watch the brake dust dissolve.


:thumbup: I agree 100%. Even those with caustic acids/bases don't work as advertised. Soap, water and a mitt are all you need with an occasional AIO and/or clay.


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## D'04 (Mar 28, 2006)

allaboutme said:


> 5000 British Pounds = 8,898.5 United States Dollars
> 
> Yes, he is washing the car in the sun, so you already know how great his work is.
> 
> ...


The only problem I see here is that this guy is out there making 5000 whatever currency per car wash and you guys only bitch and moan about it. See the difference?


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

allaboutme said:


> Sir, I gave the reason for this test in my post. I said many things in my posts to which you didn't respond.
> 
> It'll be a fun test regardless of results. But I warn you the results will be... shocking to you.


The results will be even more shocking to you it seems. To the normal person, they can't even tell the difference between a Jet Black and Black Sapphire Metallic, but to the train eye such as yours and mine, it is a different story.

Now you, what you still dont see is how a wax adds color depth to a painted surface as opposed to just a polished surface....


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## eric77 (Mar 8, 2006)

Allaboutme, I am sorry, but you are wrong about wax. It is a well known fact amongst the detailing community that waxes DO provide protection. I am a professional mobile detailer and can tell you firsthand that waxes will also add shine, depth, slickness, and wetness to a paint. That is not to say that polishing is not necessary as imo it is the most important step. 90% of the finish is in the prep, but that final 10% rests in the wax you choose (yes, there is a difference between waxes!). As for protection, synthetic sealants and carnauba waxes will add slickness to paint. What does this mean? Well, when acid rain falls on the car most of it will sheet right off and not sit long enough to damage the paint. On an unwaxed car, blobs of water will stick to the car and etch right throught the unexposed clear coat. if bird droppings fall on an unwaxed/unsealed car the acids in the droppings will almost immediately beign to etch though the clear. Wax or a sealant would act as a temporary barrier against this etching. Waxes and sealants can also offer uv protection which will spare the paint. Modern clear coats have uv protection as well, but it will still only do so much. 

To say that wax is pointless is a completely false and outright dangerous statement. It is crucial to ALWAYS keep your car waxed and/or sealed.


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## gbelton (Aug 3, 2003)

*Okay, Okay*

I am going to wax my car this weekend;spend about 4 hours on it, then go out for a cruise to get bug guts all over it and start all over again. Why? Because I can, that's why.

Wax Works IMO.
Polish works but not as good and sheen as wax IMO.
I use them both but you don't hear me whining...

GMAN


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## Boxboss (Dec 25, 2005)

gbelton said:


> I am going to wax my car this weekend;spend about 4 hours on it, then go out for a cruise to get bug guts all over it and start all over again. Why? Because I can, that's why.
> 
> Wax Works IMO.
> Polish works but not as good and sheen as wax IMO.
> ...


Getting it ready a little early, aren't you? Mine will be the weekend before - then get bug guts all over it on the way!


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## gbelton (Aug 3, 2003)

*Yep*

I have to get a few coats on before the long travel at the speed of sound.

*Need to:*
-Impregnate the top (Have not done it yet) 
-Clean the leather (Had the top down all week)
-Wax (using Zymol for the first time)
-Polish the tail-pipes

I am going to be a busy little bee this week end.

GMAN


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## Boxboss (Dec 25, 2005)

gbelton said:


> I have to get a few coats on before the long travel at the speed of sound.
> 
> *Need to:*
> -Impregnate the top (Have not done it yet)
> ...


I did the top and the leather this past Saturday and AIO weekend before last. Nothing next weekend, but the one after - lookout! Minimum 4 coats of Zaino, glass polish, pipe polish, the works. Pity that by the time we get there we'll look like the Orkin men.

I've never used Zymol and will be interested to see how it looks on your cab.


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## startwithz (Jul 29, 2009)

Ok sirs *or dudes, if you will*,

1) BmW745On19's, you're the man... i saw the pics of that 745 you're selling and it looks like its brand new. If i were in the market for another bmw, I'd definitely be giving you a call; you can really tell that all that work and wax have paid off ; the finish looks great

2) I'd like to quote the BMW owner's manual: " Increasing awareness of the effects of harmful environmental factors have led paint and vehicle manufacturers to initiate ongoing programs designed to improve the durability of their finishes. Despite this, environmental factors that occur locally or regionally can have negative effects on the finish of your vehicle." ... " After cleaning, the affected areas should be waxed to ensure continued protection. In order to preserve your finish, only use products containing carnauba wax or synthetic waxes...".

*So* if you think that BMW is just peddling some BS about the paint on the cars they sell, I guess you should just not wax your car, but if you use premium fuel or the oil BMW recommends for your engine, why would you stop listening to the manufacturer's instructions when it comes to the paint?

3)


> We can always arrange a demonstration to put this all to rest. If there are two cars in the same color (preferably black), we can have them professionally detailed where the paints are level, which will make the paint as good as perfect as it will ever get. Then, we'll have a blind test where one will get waxed and one left alone. We can make it double blind if you wish. We'll then invite anyone and everyone to see them in person (or through pictures but as I said pictures can't show much), and finally put this argument to a rest. I will tell you that my money is on people believing both cars are waxed or going 50/50 with the correct car being waxed.


If you're so keen to have this little test, why dont you go get two tiles and finish them with automotive paint (since you seem to think you know so much about detailing, you can probably figure out how to paint a few tiles, right?), then show them around. Or maybe you'd prefer to buy two cars just so that you can try to prove that waxing isnt important... even though you're wrong


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## DetailDan (Jul 3, 2007)

This thread is 3 years old...


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## KootRoc (Mar 30, 2009)

+1


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