# Build a relationship with your local dealer.



## Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW (Aug 30, 2012)

Hello everyone. I'm a long time lurker of this forum and have only recently decided to join and sponsor Bimmerfest. I'm glad to be here, and I hope that I can add something to the forum. 

I can't express enough how important it is for you, as clients, to establish a relationship with a client advisor. Not a dealer, a cllient advisor. I think many of the bad experiences we read about on the forum could be prevented if the right client met the right salesperson at the right time. Clients spend so much time talking about the "deal" they beat a dealer out of that they lose sight of the value of connections. You can deal with ten dealers every time you buy or lease, or you can have one trusted contact to assist you through the years. 

I know, I know. It's the luck of the draw, right? You pull into the lot and you have to talk to the guy that greets you. You call the dealership and you're stuck talking to the person who answered the phone. You e-mail and.......you get the idea. Well, it doesn't have to be this way. There are ways you can find the best salespeople who will be brand ambassadors and treat you the way you deserve. 

How do you make the contact?
-Every BMW dealer now has reviews automatically posted to their company website by Vital Insights (the people who send you the surveys after the sale). These are usually posted under "about us-->dealer reviews". Look for a client advisor's name that appears repetitively in the positive surveys. Call or visit the dealership and ask for that advisor. Introduce yourself, get a card, and tell him/her how you found out about them. Tell them what you want to accomplish and when you want to accomplish it. Have a conversation and see if you are comfortable with them. 

-Call the sales manager and ask for the name of the salesperson who sells the most NEW cars. This is important, because customer satisfaction and loyalty building are more difficult and held in higher regard in new cars. Don't ask for the best salesperson, because the manager's idea of the best may be the guy who makes the most profit, not the one who takes the best care of his clients.

-Talk to your service advisor. Generally, if you like your service advisor, you will also like the client advisor he/she reccommends. Great client advisors and great service advisors often work together, because satisfied repeat customers are their mutual livlihood. 

Buy a car from the person you choose. Do everything you can to buy a car from them. It's no secret that every dealer buys these cars at the same price. A deal you get 100 miles away could have been matched at home if you work with a professional. Don't like the way it's going? Set a meeting with the sales manager and tell him/her that there is a personality conflict and you would like to work with someone else. 

Don't lie. Don't lie about expectations, timeframes, the deal you're getting at the other dealer, whether or not you need a spouse's approval, etc. Don't make up excuses to get away. 
You expect your dealership to be truthful with you, return the favor in kind. We can help you better that way. Plus, we know good and well that the other dealer didn't go $1,500 under invoice on a new x6. 

Establish a rapport and trust with your client advisor. I have made many customer/friends during my career, many of whom I still sell cars to as a sales manager. We have a trust, a professional bond, and sometimes even a friendship. Wouldn't you like to come into the dealership, negotiate a fair deal, order, and get credit approval in under an hour? Plus, if you're ever having a problem in the service department it is HUGE to have a contact in the sales department at your local dealer to help in a pinch. 

There are exceptions to the rule. If the guy violates your trust, tries to shortcut your experience, lies to you, or dismisses you altogether, forget everything you just read and start over. BUT, I will guarantee you that every BMW dealer has a client advisor who gets it, knows the product, works as a client advocate, and wants to be on a first-name basis with you. Give it a shot. I promise, it will certainly beat your experience sending the "best price wins" e-mail to every dealer in a 200-mile radius. Think about it.


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## williakz (Apr 14, 2013)

Interesting. How does this nascent love story deal with the rocky shoals produced by doc fees that range from $0 to $699 in markets separated by a few states? Or buying programs where one dealer opts out and his/her competitor 10 miles away opts in resulting in a financing cost difference to the customer of several thousand dollars over a 4 year term? And how does this love overcome the basic difference in markets for high-performance, high-cost vehicles between L.A. and Duluth Minnesota? Or maybe I''m just forgetting that love conquers all...


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## Red Lined (Jan 3, 2012)

^^:rofl:

Seriously, I for one could care less about making a "relationship" with my dealer. Why, so he can s*** on me with a $599 doc fee or dealer fee without telling me. So he can bulls*** me that the wheel and tire package is necessary and that I have to purchase it. So he can mark up the MF the maximum amount and up-charge the acquisition fee while he's at it. So he can "forget" to tell me about a rebate and keep it for himself.

99% of CA's are clueless (excluding the bimmerfest sponsors) and the Sales Manager dictates the numbers anyway. So why even bother with the CA, just go straight to the sales manager and tell him your numbers. If he says no then off to another dealership. There is no such thing as a relationship in a sale. 

$500-$1000 over invoice, base MF, base acquisition fee, none of the garbage the finance guy tries to sell, and I'll utilize all rebates/incentives. In exchange I'll give you 5s on the CSI survey. I'll wave bye on the way out. There's you relationship.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Courageous post...

While I agree with your points- to an extent you will get what you get. How can a buyer 'test out' all the sales staff to find the one or two that 'get it'??? And what, after 2-3 weeks of back and forth, they decide you will not get the best deal and thats that? Start all over?

At the end of the day, the deal will be the deal the sales manager permits...(Remind me to tell the story of those guy that bought 4,5 cars from one CA, they talked cars and golf...when he came in for service he'd stop by and BS...real buddies...so when the new M5 was announced he put his name on the list, paid a $1000 deposit for the new M5 at MSRP...but alas he found the dealer wouldnt honor the deal, giving others priority when they paid 5, 10k more.) The sad truth is that CAs dont have the authority to hold up their side of any deal or agreement- so that when a customer thinks they are dealing with an equal- in terms of integrity and authority- the reality is that CAs will only act with as much integrity as the dealership management permits.

IMO, it is more important to cultivate the relationship with the SERVICE advisor... I've worked with one master tech, and three differnet SAs, for over 10 years...and that has been much more valuable than the sales guy. Incredibly so. 

I wont be a dick, and jerk guys around- but I dont really care if they are truthful... I verify everything, dont rely on their word for anything- it makes it so much easier.


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## PFol310 (Mar 30, 2013)

Great Post Joseph!


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

ard said:


> IMO, it is more important to cultivate the relationship with the *SERVICE* advisor... I've worked with one master tech, and three differnet SAs, for over 10 years...and that has been much more valuable than the sales guy. Incredibly so.
> 
> I wont be a dick, and jerk guys around- but I dont really care if they are truthful... I verify everything, dont rely on their word for anything- it makes it so much easier.


Exactly.


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

Wow! You know normally - I would have no issue with this statement but in THIS industry a CA is a marketing term coined by BMW for a SALES PERSON. There is no "advising" where commission isn't involved! Also, everything is so secretive - the talks with the management, the "can't allow you to see invoice pricing" lines, the myth of the 7% profit on all cars... I can go on and on. 

I say TRUST BUT VERIFY! That's my motto for this and most other business interactions. Do I like my current CA? Sure...but if another manager at another dealer has a better deal - I'd say match or I'll walk. Done it before and it's not personal, it's business. 

The other thing is that you don't have specialists for a particular line. So...with all the options, I've walked in the door knowing more and TRAINING the CA's in my knowledge where it should be the other way around. 

This is a consumer product and while expensive, consumers are driven by a sale, best pricing, incentives, etc... It's not a multi-million dollar deal with a large Fortune 500 where the "sales person" grooms the account and manages it quarterly or monthly. Relationships matter there. In the car industry, it's transactional and not relationship based. 

Do agree with the Service dep't though...those relationships are much more important. 

If you want relationship based sales -->

eliminate the management approval for approving deals and leave that to the CA

lay out the TRUE profit margins in each car

KNOW YOUR COMPETITION!!! --- this really goes a long way. If a client asks you "Why BMW over Audi, Infiniti, MB?", have an answer ready that's PERSONAL to that deal on that very car. 

Ask for the sale BUT offer to match anything else out there and encourage cross-comparison shopping

Think out of the box and don't accept no from the manager...STICK up for and PROTECT the client from a rejection from a manager.


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## Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW (Aug 30, 2012)

I understand your opinions on this. Maybe I run my store differently. I empower my client advisors and do my best to eliminate the back and forth. I'll print out an invoice and show it to a client without hesitation. I don't let them leave with it so they can scan it and post it to the internet, because I like my job. If the salesperson comes to me a second time without an agreement I invite the clients into my office and show them everything-full disclosure. This is the way it should be.

I had a client who I knew would be in the market soon. I called him on April 1 to *ADVISE* him that he needed to submit a credit app to lock in the $1,500 lease cash on the 528i he was considering. No pressure, but if you think you may purchase in the next 60 days you should submit. He did. He came in last night fifteen minutes before closing. We talked, shared a chuckle or two, and he bought a 2013 528i $750 over invoice with base money factor. From the time he walked in until the time he walked out it was an hour. That's executive treatment, which is what BMW buyers deserve. My doc fee is $399. Do you think I'm going to lose a customer over $399?

I'm sorry you have had bad experiences. I do love my clients. Every single one of them. Even those of you who beat me up and treat me like a common Hyundai salesman. I care about the brand. I care about knowing my clients by name and them knowing me. Maybe I'm rare. Maybe that's why my store consistantly stays on top in customer satisfaction and just won Center of Excellence.

If you guys have a dealer that treats you well already, stay with them. If you don't, call me. I can prove that I'm not blowing smoke.


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

Thank you for sharing your points. I am sure that there are dealers like yours however, the unknowns to the consumer are staggering and it's not just BMW. I will detail them out for you

Doc Fee - I don't know why yours is double the dealer I'm currently working through. Theirs is $199. The other one in NH is $345. The few in MA are around $300-$350. So...yes...IF you are looking at getting the best possible deal, this fee is also widely erratic

Money Factor in a Lease - why not have a uniform base rate that CANNOT be changed. You may get an educated buyer that will demand .00129 or someone off the street that won't blink or understand that .00169 has been marked up! 

Invoice Pricing - I really don't get this. Why not publish them and why not let customer's take them out the door? Stupid policy IMO. I can get invoice pricing on a number of websites including NADA. Also, some dealers (non-BMW) have set prices on all cars. There is no negotiation. The price on the sticker is what you pay.

Trade-in - I got a whopping $2500 spread among 4 dealers for my trade-in. It would be great if you just had a book and based on the value you stuck to it. This is an industry issue but still, it's aggravating.

Extra warranties - I've even shopped this one around. Consider this...and this is a HUGE unknown to the consumer. BMW extended warranty was quoted to me for $3200 for 5yr/100K. I emailed another dealer and it was $2700. I then found Greg on this forum at Pacific and his quote was $2500. I was then offered a warranty with MORE choice and same coverage from Fidelity and the coverage started at $2000. Again, on this forum, I found a dealer that offered it for $1400. So, in this simple exercise, assuming one would take the extended warranty, I went from a high of $3000 to $1400 in about 4 hours. 

Extended Maintenance - Same story. Initial price from dealer was just over $2000. Found out cost and profit and haggled down to $1645. 

It's these items that drive me and I would assume most other consumers bat sh*t crazy when buying a car.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW said:


> I understand your opinions on this. Maybe I run my store differently. I empower my client advisors and do my best to eliminate the back and forth. I'll print out an invoice and show it to a client without hesitation. I don't let them leave with it so they can scan it and post it to the internet, because I like my job. If the salesperson comes to me a second time without an agreement I invite the clients into my office and show them everything-full disclosure. This is the way it should be.
> 
> I had a client who I knew would be in the market soon. I called him on April 1 to *ADVISE* him that he needed to submit a credit app to lock in the $1,500 lease cash on the 528i he was considering. No pressure, but if you think you may purchase in the next 60 days you should submit. He did. He came in last night fifteen minutes before closing. We talked, shared a chuckle or two, and he bought a 2013 528i $750 over invoice with base money factor. From the time he walked in until the time he walked out it was an hour. That's executive treatment, which is what BMW buyers deserve. My doc fee is $399. Do you think I'm going to lose a customer over $399?
> 
> ...


I appreciate your viewpoint. I have about 4 client advisors that are friends and trusted salespeople. One of them is the fest's own Adrian Avila. Adrian and I sometimes just chat about nothing and sometimes we talk cars. You might ask why I have 4 people I buy from? It is simply because sometimes one guy can do a deal another guy cannot do. Inventory changes, allocations, sales goals and other stuff all factor into the total deal a guy/gal can give you. The point is that I have developed a long term relationship with these 4 guys and between the 4 of them I pretty much can get what I want for a good or great deal. I do believe that having a relationship beats emailing or calling every dealer in your area to shop a deal. I do not have the time or energy to do that. I would rather give business to someone that has treated me well in the past. FYI...my 4 guys love me because I send them business all the time. They always remember when it is time for my next car that I sent them 3 or 4 people that actually purchased from them.


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## kromix (Mar 20, 2013)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> FYI...my 4 guys love me


I like that polygamous relationship you have with 4 men :bigpimp:

I think this is the best way to do it, You can't commit to one CA "Sales Guy", you will sell yourself short every time in my opinion. You are going to deal with him every 3-5 years roughly, the relationship isn't as important as with the Service Advisor.

With that said, you are in South Florida, can you PM me your client advisors local to us that you deal with? I'm looking to add more to my polygamous relationship locally :rofl:


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

I can agree with that aspect. Having a few guys you reach out to. I think I found that guy on my latest deal. 

Look...this is my first bmw so I am somewhat biased based on other brands I've dealt with


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

kromix said:


> I like that polygamous relationship you have with 4 men :bigpimp:
> 
> I think this is the best way to do it, You can't commit to one CA "Sales Guy", you will sell yourself short every time in my opinion. You are going to deal with him every 3-5 years roughly, the relationship isn't as important as with the Service Advisor.
> 
> With that said, you are in South Florida, can you PM me your client advisors local to us that you deal with? I'm looking to add more to my polygamous relationship locally :rofl:


Polygamous relationship??!! LOL. Sure I will send you PM.

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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Now this is a interesting thread..........


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## davidc1 (May 1, 2008)

Interesting thread. I've done six deals with the same CA at the same dealership. Perhaps I am too lazy. And fortunately, I haven't had the need to develop a relationship with an SA.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

In my experience if you give full disclosure, good pricing no BS and honest service most of your clients will usually give you 2nd shot at their business.. so best not to screw them the first time. The lifeline of high volume for sales (CA's) is customer loyalty.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

[email protected] BMW said:


> In my experience if you give full disclosure, good pricing no BS and honest service most of your clients will usually give you 2nd shot at their business.. so best not to screw them the first time. The lifeline of high volume for sales (CA's) is customer loyalty.


True. You are also on my list of CA's to use.

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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

[email protected] BMW said:


> In my experience if you give full disclosure, good pricing no BS and honest service most of your clients will usually give you 2nd shot at their business.. so best not to screw them the first time. The lifeline of high volume for sales (CA's) is customer loyalty.


Just wish they were all like this!


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

sorry for all the posts but it's not just the ca. Let's say you have a great relationship with the CA and you are confident on the deal...you then go into the business office and get blind sided by crap you never researched! See my previous post on warranties and fees. This is the part I hate.


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## GoBlue5 (Sep 29, 2010)

Red Lined said:


> ^^:rofl:
> 
> Seriously, I for one could care less about making a "relationship" with my dealer. Why, so he can s*** on me with a $599 doc fee or dealer fee without telling me. So he can bulls*** me that the wheel and tire package is necessary and that I have to purchase it. So he can mark up the MF the maximum amount and up-charge the acquisition fee while he's at it. So he can "forget" to tell me about a rebate and keep it for himself.
> 
> ...


This is a very naive approach to take. A relationship with a particular client advisor is definitely a smart idea, true you probably can get the same price from another dealership, but often a dealer only has a limited number of production allocations for a particular model (think M3). Your relationship will come in handy when you are amongst a number of people who are hoping to capture one of those last 2 or 3 allocations prior to the end of the E92 M-3 production.


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## cordoor (Jun 26, 2012)

I had a great relationship with my local client advisor until it was the finance guy who stepped in and refused to get within 2.2K of an out-of-state dealership. So guess what happened? I went out of state. Then I bought the client advisor an edible arrangement to let him know I appreciated him and that we both got screwed by the finance guy.


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## Stevej2001 (Jan 26, 2008)

I concur with the OP. I live in a town with one dealer, and the nearest out of town dealer is about an hour away. That's not a big deal. But I've met a CA at my dealer that is a straight shooter. When I bought my '01 f10, I came to him with what I'd learned was a reasonable offer. I might have gotten a few hudred knoecked off by shopping it around. But what is my time worth? Now this guy has helped with service, etc. I've sent him referals. It keeps the business in town (and where I live the economy is a mess). 

All this obsession with getting the last dollar out of the deal... I'd rather spend the time enjoying my car.

That said, I've had to deal with other folks who were just plain dishonest. And they never got my repeat business.


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## 108598 (Feb 5, 2008)

Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW said:


> I understand your opinions on this. Maybe I run my store differently. I empower my client advisors and do my best to eliminate the back and forth. I'll print out an invoice and show it to a client without hesitation. I don't let them leave with it so they can scan it and post it to the internet, because I like my job. If the salesperson comes to me a second time without an agreement I invite the clients into my office and show them everything-full disclosure. This is the way it should be.
> 
> I had a client who I knew would be in the market soon. I called him on April 1 to *ADVISE* him that he needed to submit a credit app to lock in the $1,500 lease cash on the 528i he was considering. No pressure, but if you think you may purchase in the next 60 days you should submit. He did. He came in last night fifteen minutes before closing. We talked, shared a chuckle or two, and he bought a 2013 528i $750 over invoice with base money factor. From the time he walked in until the time he walked out it was an hour. That's executive treatment, which is what BMW buyers deserve. My doc fee is $399. Do you think I'm going to lose a customer over $399?
> 
> ...


You should visit a Fields BMW dealership sometime.

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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

[email protected] BMW said:


> In my experience if you give full disclosure, good pricing no BS and honest service most of your clients will usually give you 2nd shot at their business.. so best not to screw them the first time. The lifeline of high volume for sales (CA's) is customer loyalty.


Now that's a good policy, and I like no nonsense CAs/Sales Managers. No fake smiles or sugar-coating or small talks. I just want my CA to be knowledgeable, efficient and honest.

I had one that had such qualities... I gave him my business and referred quite a few friends/family members to him, many of whom bought BMWs from him.

Then he got his big promotion to a sales manager, and his attitude changed. He doesn't respond to my e-mails and delegates everything to someone who is so green that I was fed up and none too happy about how he showed his appreciation for my past business.

That's when I reached out to Greg for my new M3. So far so good! I hope Greg never gets his promo


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Not sure if I should laugh or cry after reading this thread. The life of a car salesman, excuse me Client Advisor, is a tough one. I've met a few that I trust and would give them repeat business but many float around, dealer to dealer looking for new clients. BMW dealerships like all car dealerships are in business to make money. If a potential customer is willing to pay MSRP, they sure are not going to refuse to take their money and laugh all the way to the bank. This is capitalism at its best. For those that come in prepared with invoice pricing, full knowledge of all rebates and incentives, the prudent approach is to be completely honest and open. No BS, no back and forth haggling. For many people buying a car is a frustrating and very negative experience. For some of us, it is enjoyable and a challenge. I do find myself feeling sorry for the CA that works for a sales manager that treats all potential customers as idiots. If the OP is being honest then his dealership may be one that I would consider in the future.


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## xi2d (Oct 25, 2009)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> I appreciate your viewpoint. I have about 4 client advisors that are friends and trusted salespeople. One of them is the fest's own Adrian Avila. Adrian and I sometimes just chat about nothing and sometimes we talk cars. You might ask why I have 4 people I buy from? It is simply because sometimes one guy can do a deal another guy cannot do. Inventory changes, allocations, sales goals and other stuff all factor into the total deal a guy/gal can give you. The point is that I have developed a long term relationship with these 4 guys and between the 4 of them I pretty much can get what I want for a good or great deal. I do believe that having a relationship beats emailing or calling every dealer in your area to shop a deal. I do not have the time or energy to do that. I would rather give business to someone that has treated me well in the past. FYI...my 4 guys love me because I send them business all the time. They always remember when it is time for my next car that I sent them 3 or 4 people that actually purchased from them.


Agree with above.

We've leased 5 BMW's, all from different Centers and we have been happy with all the transactions. I'd prefer to stay local and am willing to pay a little more for the convenience but it's all about price, dealer incentives, allocations, lot inventory, trade value, pull-ahead, time of month, time of year, presence of spouse during negotiations, etc. This is of course easier if you live or work in a major metro area.

For those of you in the SF Bay area...After reading all the negative online reviews, I was surprised to have completed excellent deals with Weber (Fresno), Peter Pan and Stevens Creek. I owe it all to the info I learned here on Bimmerfest, Tarry, RidewithG, BMW Config and bmwvin.com. For the Volt, I flew down to Van Nuys, picked it up and drove it back.

Establishing a relationship with a CA is fine***8230;it gets you extended test drives, the ability to shop in cargo shorts and a t-shirt and you may even make a friend. Doing your homework, establishing yourself as an educated customer upfront and acting professional is the key.

My '11 335d lease is up in June. When I decide on the replacement, Jon S will be #6. :thumbup:


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## cordoor (Jun 26, 2012)

Stevej2001 said:


> All this obsession with getting the last dollar out of the deal... I'd rather spend the time enjoying my car.


First of all, those of us who have had a bad local experience with an "only game in town" dealership weren't battling over a few dollars. I would have been excited to order from my local dealership if they could have gotten within $800 of my best out-of-state offer.

Secondly, there is no time lost ordering from an out-of-state dealer. In fact, I spent far *less* time with the out-of-state dealer than I did with the local dealer fighting tooth and nail to keep my business with the local.

What? A customer fighting a business to get the business to keep the customer by offering the business an $800 premium over the going rate?

It sounds crazy and it is.

Great business relationships are, well, great. I am a part owner of and operate a business. But the relationship has to be a two way street. It has to be win/win.

There is no way I am going to establish a one sided relationship. "I'd rather spend the time enjoying my car."


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## mr29 (Sep 2, 2012)

great thread here


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## StLo335 (Apr 24, 2013)

Ive frequented (lurked) these forums for a while now, but have never felt compelled to post until now.

I ordered a 335 around a month ago, and like some of the posters in this thread suggested, I went guerrilla war style on the dealers. I pitted them against each other, as well as against competitive brands. The result was a great deal (400 over invoice for a custom build, no MF or acq markup, and a doc fee of $99). 

However, as a result, my CA refuses to put any more work into the deal. I don't get status updates on my car. I don't know the eta. Direct questions are answered with a "not sure" or "Ill look into it" with no follow up. Frankly, I got what I paid for. He will get whats coming to him on his survey, and we both seem okay with this. 

It really goes into what you want in a car buying experience. If you want a relationship, don't haggle too much. If you don't care about the convenience of getting along with your CA, by all means, hack away until you're paying nothing over invoice. This was my first new car, and with graduating in May, I'm on a bit of a budget (and have an abundance of time to negotiate). Someone with a bit more financial freedom or less time should feel welcome to pay a little more to get an additional level of customer service. There is no absolute right answer here.


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## Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW (Aug 30, 2012)

StLo335 said:


> Ive frequented (lurked) these forums for a while now, but have never felt compelled to post until now.
> 
> I ordered a 335 around a month ago, and like some of the posters in this thread suggested, I went guerrilla war style on the dealers. I pitted them against each other, as well as against competitive brands. The result was a great deal (400 over invoice for a custom build, no MF or acq markup, and a doc fee of $99).
> 
> ...


Don't think for a minute that it is your fault your customer service is bad. If the guy didn't want to service your deal he should have never agreed to take your offer. This is laziness, and the CA would probably behave the same way if he made a couple grand. PM me with your production number my friend. I'll call distribution and get an eta for you.


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## woohoo (May 29, 2003)

Here's my story:

I worked with a CA to order a BMW from a dealership where my family and I have purchased before. We negotiated and agreed the amount over invoice, fees, MF, and residual and I ordered the car. All of this was based on extending the existing relationship. 

Fast forward 2 months later when my car arrives, the CA places the financial statement in front of me in preparation for my meeting with the Finance Manager. To my surprise, the terms are completely different--full markup on all the terms and the amount over invoice is more. I kindly pointed out to the CA that we already agreed on the deal two months prior. Fortunately, I brought the previous financial statement printout. The CA says he needs to check with the sales manager and he returns 15 minutes later with the original deal.

I tried to continue the relationship with my local dealer but they screwed it up. They could have counted on many more BMW purchases in the years to come. Even more interesting is that the CA I bought my first BMW from was now a sales manager at the dealership. I don't know if he reviewed my deal but it appears they are transaction focused and not interested in building or maintaining any relationship. I'm never going back there again. :tsk:

Now I'm working with Greg.


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## cordoor (Jun 26, 2012)

joseph @ schaeffer bmw said:


> don't think for a minute that it is your fault your customer service is bad. If the guy didn't want to service your deal he should have never agreed to take your offer. This is laziness, and the ca would probably behave the same way if he made a couple grand. Pm me with your production number my friend. I'll call distribution and get an eta for you.


+1


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW said:


> Don't think for a minute that it is your fault your customer service is bad. If the guy didn't want to service your deal he should have never agreed to take your offer. This is laziness, and the CA would probably behave the same way if he made a couple grand. PM me with your production number my friend. I'll call distribution and get an eta for you.


This I can agree with. I don't try to squeeze every red cent out of the deal if I think I am getting a fair deal. But, once a deal is reached, I expect my CA to fulfill his obligation regardless of how much profit he is making on the deal.

To be fair, I am not expecting a red-carpet treatment, but there is a minimum set of things that I expect, including a status update or prompt replies to my questions regarding the deal.



woohoo said:


> Here's my story:
> 
> I worked with a CA to order a BMW from a dealership where my family and I have purchased before. We negotiated and agreed the amount over invoice, fees, MF, and residual and I ordered the car. All of this was based on extending the existing relationship.
> 
> ...


It looks like Greg is profiting from all the screw ups by the other California dealers. I think this is a conspiracy, and Greg is behind all these incidents


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## Chuck W. (Apr 27, 2007)

ard said:


> Courageous post...
> 
> IMO, it is more important to cultivate the relationship with the SERVICE advisor...


I agree. I want a competent Client Adviser. I work on having (& have) a great relationship with my Service Adviser.

All that said, welcome and good luck. It seems the right coast has fewer CAs sponsors than the left coast.


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## kromix (Mar 20, 2013)

Chuck W. said:


> It seems the right coast has fewer CAs sponsors than the left coast.


Yea I've noticed that ;\


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## DDGator (Mar 4, 2013)

I haven't opened up this can of worms yet because I am still waiting to get my car, but I have been very unhappy with my experience with my CA. I got a personal referral to the very top grossing salesman at my local dealer. I have no idea why he is so successful. He is high pressure, difficult to negotiate with, and generally full of himself. I made what turned out to be a pretty lousy deal (for me) and have the bonus of not enjoying the experience at all. I would like to build a relationship with a CA, but he won't be this one. I actually have yet to decide if I will even go back to this dealership in the future. 

I knew this relationship wasn't what I hoped for from the begining, but I stuck with it in order to use the dealer in my city. I made e-mail inquiries to a couple other nearly dealers, but didn't get much enthusiasm either. All in all, my last two experiences buying a car from Saturn were far better than anything I have yet to experience with BMW. I am hopeful that the PCD experience will restore my enthusiasm for buying a BMW.

I may tell the whole story when it's all over.


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## malenky77 (Apr 24, 2013)

Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW said:


> I understand your opinions on this. Maybe I run my store differently. I empower my client advisors and do my best to eliminate the back and forth. I'll print out an invoice and show it to a client without hesitation. I don't let them leave with it so they can scan it and post it to the internet, because I like my job. If the salesperson comes to me a second time without an agreement I invite the clients into my office and show them everything-full disclosure. This is the way it should be.
> 
> I had a client who I knew would be in the market soon. I called him on April 1 to *ADVISE* him that he needed to submit a credit app to lock in the $1,500 lease cash on the 528i he was considering. No pressure, but if you think you may purchase in the next 60 days you should submit. He did. He came in last night fifteen minutes before closing. We talked, shared a chuckle or two, and he bought a 2013 528i $750 over invoice with base money factor. From the time he walked in until the time he walked out it was an hour. That's executive treatment, which is what BMW buyers deserve. My doc fee is $399. Do you think I'm going to lose a customer over $399?
> 
> ...


$750 over invoice plus $399 doc fee equals $1149 profit on the front-end of the deal! In my book it is about $1K more then I want to pay. Deallers that are prepared to negotiate from the point of base MF, Bank Fee, invoice pricing minus ALL incentives / allowances plus the smallest profit around the competition - I don't care if you call it doc fee dealer fee or prep fee or just PROFIT - will get my business in a heartbeat!


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## edx1 (Oct 17, 2012)

I couldn't even make it to talking finance with the local dealer (who owns both Utah dealerships and is known for not being even close to the best deals around) as the satellite building nearest us seemed to only be proficient at wasting our time. Three times they asked us to come in over a 5 week period to sign paperwork for an ED that was 5 months out and near a model year change only to have to fill out the same paperwork each time, wait 1-2 hours at the dealership, and then be told they're not sure they can place the order due to model year changes. They said they would still submit it and call us back in 3-5 days. After about 2 weeks each time I had to call them for an update, sometimes they'd even not return voicemail and we were eventually told the order was rejected. Each time it was rejected I said to just let us know when it could be ordered to save us both time and then waited to hear back. 

My wife and I were beyond frustrated and done with them so based on a couple outstanding reviews here on bimmerfest of the BMW of Idaho Falls, 250 miles away and slightly further than two other dealerships that didn't have as good of reviews here, I called there and spoke to Rick who has since gained my respect and loyalty. I had a 3 minute talk about what we wanted and the situation and the first morning the car could be ordered he called us and the car was ordered in less than 15 minutes. Dealer packets on the 2014 were not even out and we were going by order code numbers and deciphering from 2013 info and also looking for what options and standard features changed for curiosity, otherwise it would have been about 5 minutes to do the order. Financing was a very simple price over invoice negotiation which was within forum members desired range and took about 20 seconds. 

After the first couple calls everything since has been done over e-mail and we made several changes in ED dates and package options, including noticing when BMW NA missed change requests and followed up on his own and kept us updated. He knew our car and was on top of everything and never pushed anything or played a single game. Since it was an ED I wondered about reminding about no Maco or training fees but I trusted him and when he got the VIN (The day it was available as I was tracking the production as well) and gave us the final price, it was the invoice+ we talked about three months before. I can't recommend him enough to anyone within a days drive who wish they could work with a more efficient dealer. He is actually what I think all of us here would like to expect from a CA.

Oh, our local dealership did eventually call to tell us they could order the car in about 3-5 weeks, this being over a month after we already had our order placed and ED date confirmed. :thumbdwn:


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## 108598 (Feb 5, 2008)

DDGator said:


> I haven't opened up this can of worms yet because I am still waiting to get my car, but I have been very unhappy with my experience with my CA. I got a personal referral to the very top grossing salesman at my local dealer. I have no idea why he is so successful. He is high pressure, difficult to negotiate with, and generally full of himself. I made what turned out to be a pretty lousy deal (for me) and have the bonus of not enjoying the experience at all. I would like to build a relationship with a CA, but he won't be this one. I actually have yet to decide if I will even go back to this dealership in the future.
> 
> I knew this relationship wasn't what I hoped for from the begining, but I stuck with it in order to use the dealer in my city. I made e-mail inquiries to a couple other nearly dealers, but didn't get much enthusiasm either. All in all, my last two experiences buying a car from Saturn were far better than anything I have yet to experience with BMW. I am hopeful that the PCD experience will restore my enthusiasm for buying a BMW.
> 
> I may tell the whole story when it's all over.


I see you are in Tampa. Orlando is terrible as well. Got my last two from Adrian Avila. Would like to stay closer but it just doesn't make sense.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## dgkfl (Feb 7, 2005)

I have worked with 4 different BMW dealerships over the years. I've bought a lot of new cars in my lifetime, and over all my best buying experiences have been with those dealers (as opposed to other brands). Over all, very little hanky panky, although I always walk in as a hopefully-educated buyer.

That said, my over all experience with dealerships is that the experience starts at the top. The first thing is a dealership attitude that the dealership wants a long term relationship with a customer, not to take a mark. From my perspective, one way to see this is by how much control the CA seems to have over the deal. 

By far, my best experiences have been when the CA (I'm using the BMW term, but I mean sales person) appeared to have the ability to make the deal without the going-to-the-manager games so often played. That's when the relationship with the CA really matters. 

At many dealerships, I think it doesn't matter what relationship you have with the CA--the dealership treats the salesmen like children, gives them little respect or autonomy, and in that case you're wasting your time developing a relationship with the CA. These are typically the same dealerships where the finance person treats you like a mark, as well.

So, you need both a dealership with a business model that fosters a long-term relationship with the customer (and [email protected] CA's probably won't last that long at those dealerships) plus a good CA.

I think over all BMW does a good job with this, and the fact that so far I have been able to find that combo at BMW dealerships keeps me coming back to BMW as well. It really does matter.

My experience, anyway.


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

I think what you're trying to say is adopt the apple model. They are maniacally focused on set pricing. Would be cool if BMW went this route I think. 


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## jjcruiser (Aug 18, 2008)

sfiermon said:


> I think what you're trying to say is adopt the apple model. They are maniacally focused on set pricing. Would be cool if BMW went this route I think.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


Except Apple sold 47.8 million iPhone 5 units.

BMW has sold about 70,000 units so far this year (so triple that to account for sales from last summer when the iPhone 5 went on sale and you're still talking about 250,000 at most).

Apple can afford to make only $500 per unit in profit.

BMW cannot.


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## aberrant (Apr 20, 2013)

jjcruiser said:


> Except Apple sold 47.8 million iPhone 5 units.
> 
> BMW has sold about 70,000 units so far this year (so triple that to account for sales from last summer when the iPhone 5 went on sale and you're still talking about 250,000 at most).
> 
> ...


Then BMW can increase its profit margin to make up for it. The point is that consistent pricing across dealerships would do more to improve the animus between buyers and sellers than anything else I can think of. That would make it beneficial for buyers to establish this dealer-coveted relationship since there's nothing to gain or lose from it except possibly better post-sales service.


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## jjcruiser (Aug 18, 2008)

aberrant said:


> Then BMW can increase its profit margin to make up for it. The point is that consistent pricing across dealerships would do more to improve the animus between buyers and sellers than anything else I can think of. That would make it beneficial for buyers to establish this dealer-coveted relationship since there's nothing to gain or lose from it except possibly better post-sales service.


That's a fair point--most people hate car buying because they are nervous about the negotiating--though I earlier made the point that I for one am glad that there are some people making lots of profit for individual dealers and BMW on individual cars, because it affords the dealer the ability to take lower profit on a few "easy" deals that are done on the internet in 10 minutes.

Anyway, I still think there's too few people demanding a firm low price because they don't see the cars as fungible. They walk on the lot, driving a car or two around, decide whether they like the white or the black (or maybe even silver!) and then sit down and see if the finance manager can keep their payment under $500 even with the extended tire warranty on the "white one with the sunroof." To them the notion that they could leave and talk to 10 different dealers and order precisely the car they want for reasonable price above invoice as long as they can wait six weeks is anathema. They just smelled the car and want to drive home in it now.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

jjcruiser said:


> That's a fair point--most people hate car buying because they are nervous about the negotiating--though I earlier made the point that I for one am glad that there are some people making lots of profit for individual dealers and BMW on individual cars, because it affords the dealer the ability to take lower profit on a few "easy" deals that are done on the internet in 10 minutes.
> 
> Anyway,* I still think there's too few people demanding a firm low price because they don't see the cars as fungible. They walk on the lot, driving a car or two around, decide whether they like the white or the black (or maybe even silver!) and then sit down and see if the finance manager can keep their payment under $500 even with the extended tire warranty on the "white one with the sunroof." To them the notion that they could leave and talk to 10 different dealers and order precisely the car they want for reasonable price above invoice as long as they can wait six weeks is anathema. They just smelled the car and want to drive home in it now.*


Bingo, bingo, bingo!!!! Once again the most realistic and well reasoned post in this thread. Bimmerfesters generally seem to be either unable or unwilling to realize what an infinitesimally small segment of the automotive consumer market they comprise.


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## aberrant (Apr 20, 2013)

tturedraider said:


> Bingo, bingo, bingo!!!! Once again the most realistic and well reasoned post in this thread. Bimmerfesters generally seem to be either unable or unwilling to realize what an infinitesimally small segment of the automotive consumer market they comprise.


But is this really true? Are most car buyers - especially the ones considering luxury vehicles - so focused on instant gratification that they WON'T spend time researching prices and options? (I'm not a dealer, so I wouldn't know.)

I wonder what percentage of BMWs are sold after a single test drive and for immediate pickup.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

I've leased five BMWs in the past 9 years, four from my local dealership and one from a bimmerfest sponsor. The only time I had a negative experience was with my first local CA. This was 2003 and their initial offer to me was to knock $500 off the MSRP, then add $200 bump to the Lease Acquisition Fee and markup the Money Factor by 2 points. In addition, they had a $298 Doc Fee at the time. I attempted to negotiate and at one point he actually said to me "maybe you want more car than you can afford". I left the dealership and went to a Pontiac dealership and put a deposit down on a GTO order. The GTO had numerous delays and I eventually cancelled the order in January 2004. 

BMW is what I really wanted anyway, So I went back to my local dealership but got a different CA. This guy was much better. I ordered a 330i and had a great experience. I have since leased three more from him. I did lease a 2007 530i from Adrian because he gave me an incredible deal. I did the PC delivery with it. So what's my point? Hell I dont know. When I start looking for a new car, I guess I stay opened minded now. If I can save significant money by dealing with a board sponsor, I will go that route. Also, if I ever do a Euro delivery, I will definitely use a board sponsor. I want someone who knows all the ins and outs of the process.


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## 335Fanatic (Aug 6, 2009)

95% of CAs (and I am not exaggerating here) I've met in the past didn't know much about the product they were selling AND weren't willing to give me a good/honest deal on the car. Somehow I always had higher expectations for BMW CAs (vs CAs for other brands) since BMW is more enthusiast-oriented brand; don't think my assumption is very realistic though...

Meeting a knowledgeable and honest CA (board sponsors belong to this small group) isn't easy these days and I have a great respect for them. So I think for my own benefit it IS worth building a relationship with a good CA (if you can find one ).


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## mr29 (Sep 2, 2012)

in an as much profit as possible field i dont see bmw adjusting their model to help the lazy or uninformed buyers they simply make too much money off these people.we must realize the educated buyer who is hell bent on getting the best price possible is a rare breed. we will have to continue to fight the good fight.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## JC2135 (Mar 5, 2013)

335Fanatic said:


> 95% of CAs (and I am not exaggerating here) I've met in the past didn't know much about the product they were selling AND weren't willing to give me a good/honest deal on the car. Somehow I always had higher expectations for BMW CAs (vs CAs for other brands) since BMW is more enthusiast-oriented brand; don't think my assumption is very realistic though...
> 
> Meeting a knowledgeable and honest CA (board sponsors belong to this small group) isn't easy these days and I have a great respect for them. So I think for my own benefit it IS worth building a relationship with a good CA (if you can find one ).


Exactly, and that's the reason for the original post. A guide to help us find that good CA to start a relationship with.

I've been thinking about this a lot. I currently have a 2014 X3 on order, after a lot of shopping and a bit of a hassle, including having to reorder with a different CA at the same dealership after being forced to go to the sales manager. After what I went through my confidence is shaken, so once I actually have my car I may have the start of a good relationship, but it's hard to trust CAs too. I was actually told by one when referring to some things from the forums here that "haven't you seen the state farm commercials? Just because it's on the internet doesn't mean its true" Anyway back to the original post....

Joseph is 100% right, and what he's saying is exactly what I think most of us here have come to these forums looking for.

The auto sales business model has been around a very long time. It's not going to change overnight, and it's not going to change to every individuals idea of the perfect car buying experience. What it has and will continue to do is progress. What we have here, on these forums, with the sponsors and dealers actively involved in discussions, and Joseph's post, *IS THAT PROGRESSION*. Joseph can't change the industry, but he can provide tips from a different perspective on how to create the 2 way relationship that everyone should strive for.

This type negotiation is pretty standard across many areas of business. In my line of work I deal with contractors giving me many different prices for the same job, vendors giving me many different prices for purchasing the same items. Many things costing more than cars, and prices can vary a lot, it's all negotiable and has the same principle, find someone you can establish a great relationship with. I'd rather pay a little more, and get great service that saves me time.

Joseph is not only telling us what to do, hes outlining exactly how to do it. Finding the CA on the other side of the deal that thinks like him is the hardest part of it all.

Thanks for the post, wish it was around before I started my shopping process.


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## MasterYoda (Apr 4, 2013)

DDGator said:


> Funny you say that because I considered using Adrian. I talked to him on the phone once and exchanged some e-mails, but he promised me a quote on the car and never got back to me despite my repeated follow-up -- so after a week or so I wrote him off. I ordered somewhere else, but still never heard from him. I don't need a long distance CA that is unresponsive. From what I hear, my experience with Adrian may be an abberation -- but that was my experience.
> 
> I know this sounds like I must just be difficult, but how much better a customer could you want? I knew exactly what I wanted and wasn't interested in fighting for every last dollar out of a deal. I just wanted someone to quote me a price on a car I had already spec'ed out! I would have thought I am an ideal customer.


I've been waiting to hear back from Adrian for 3 weeks now. Obviously I'm going to use a different CA. I'm in the same boat as you. I know what I want and I'm not going to squabble about every last dollar. I'm already speaking with a few responsive CAs Not sure why Adrian has such a great rep ? This isn't the 1st complaint I've come across !!!

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

tturedraider said:


> Bingo, bingo, bingo!!!! Once again the most realistic and well reasoned post in this thread. *Bimmerfesters generally seem to be either unable or unwilling to realize what an infinitesimally small segment of the automotive consumer market they comprise.*





aberrant said:


> *But is this really true? Are most car buyers - especially the ones considering luxury vehicles - so focused on instant gratification that they WON'T spend time researching prices and options?* (I'm not a dealer, so I wouldn't know.)
> 
> I wonder what percentage of BMWs are sold after a single test drive and for immediate pickup.


Talk about proving my point. Yes, it is true. Yes, it is true. Yes, it is true.

Many are sold after a single test drive and picked up within a day or two. Many are sold after a few test drives and picked up within a few days.

I have a feeling you would be utterly flabbergasted to know how many people buy $100,000+ BMWs right off the dealer's lot with whatever options are on them and have zero interest in ordering a custom built car for their $100k.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

MasterYoda said:


> I've been waiting to hear back from Adrian for 3 weeks now. Obviously I'm going to use a different CA. I'm in the same boat as you. I know what I want and I'm not going to squabble about every last dollar. I'm already speaking with a few responsive CAs Not sure why Adrian has such a great rep ? This isn't the 1st complaint I've come across !!!
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


You've been waiting three weeks?! How many times have you attempted to contact him? By what means?


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## BimmerBahn (Nov 24, 2005)

MasterYoda said:


> I've been waiting to hear back from Adrian for 3 weeks now. Obviously I'm going to use a different CA. I'm in the same boat as you. I know what I want and I'm not going to squabble about every last dollar. I'm already speaking with a few responsive CAs Not sure why Adrian has such a great rep ? This isn't the 1st complaint I've come across !!!
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


Yup, same here. I started out with Adrian since he was relatively close if I had to make a trip to the ATL and heard several good reviews about him. Sent him three emails, one PM and a couple phone calls...crickets! This is definitely not my first or second rodeo buying/ordering a new BMW. I know exactly what I want and aside from this latest purchase because it's the wife's auto, the test drive is usually when I drive it off the lot after delivery.

I wish I could use my local shop, they're good people, just a small dealership compared to the "big city" and not able, or maybe it's willingness, to sharpen the pencil. I can justify $1-2K premium, especially if I'm supporting the local economy, but $6-8K, that's just stoopid. I've been known to give the local CA a few dollars for his/her trouble even though I didn't buy from them.

This time around I went with another sponsor on the east coast. Up to now, it's been smooth sailing, very easy to deal with. Just waiting for a production number and our confirmed ED date.

Regards,


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## DDGator (Mar 4, 2013)

MasterYoda said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. I know what I want and I'm not going to squabble about every last dollar.


Glad you have some responsive choices -- I went with a local guy who hasn't wowed me either. I'm really trying not to let this ruin the whole experience.

My car is finally on U.S. soil!


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## 335Fanatic (Aug 6, 2009)

skilletbgm said:


> Yup, same here. I started out with Adrian since he was relatively close if I had to make a trip to the ATL and heard several good reviews about him. Sent him three emails, one PM and a couple phone calls...crickets!


+1

I emailed Adrian for a quote as well (twice if I remember correctly) and didn't get a response. West coast board sponsors on the other hand went above and beyond to answer my questions even though they couldn't do business with me.


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## MasterYoda (Apr 4, 2013)

tturedraider said:


> You've been waiting three weeks?! How many times have you attempted to contact him? By what means?


Through email. He said his sister was in town and that he would call me that evening. 3 weeks have gone by. This doesn't bode well in my book for a good client/customer relationship ! I'm looking to do ED this September and I want to use a board sponsor. If a CA "salesperson" can't even pick up a phone to start the process. That tells me there's going to be a lot of issues ! Who needs that !

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## carrix (Apr 26, 2013)

sfiermon said:


> Wow! You know normally - I would have no issue with this statement but in THIS industry a CA is a marketing term coined by BMW for a SALES PERSON. There is no "advising" where commission isn't involved! Also, everything is so secretive - the talks with the management, the "can't allow you to see invoice pricing" lines, the myth of the 7% profit on all cars... I can go on and on.
> 
> I say TRUST BUT VERIFY! That's my motto for this and most other business interactions. Do I like my current CA? Sure...but if another manager at another dealer has a better deal - I'd say match or I'll walk. Done it before and it's not personal, it's business.
> 
> ...


sfiermon,

Would you mind telling me which dealer sold you the warranty for $1400? I'm interested too.

Thanks in advance.


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

Sure. I just emailed this guy. He uses fidelity insurance. He actually works for a Toyota dealer in MA. check out the website for more info - www.FD-Warranty.com

[email protected]

Also email Dan as well if you want the genuine bmw extended plans like maintenance and warranty.

Daniel Dutton

Pacific BMW
Finance Manager
(818) 552-4611 - Direct
(818) 262-6498 - Cell
[email protected]

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

These negative experiences with Adrian are very surprising. I think something is wrong as he has a great reputation. My experience with him was very positive.


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## L0F (Nov 10, 2011)

So I posted earlier about local dealers marking up parts a bit more then msrp.

In the spirit of "building a relationship" with a dealer, I don't understand driving away sales to other farther dealers or online vendors selling the same genuine item at or below msrp.

I work as a mechanic, ( not automotive) and also order parts and do sales when necessary. I have no problem paying retail pricing even when I can and occasionally do call in a favor from friends who can get me parts at cost. 

If you want to build a relationship with me then start by fair pricing on parts. Brand and dealership loyalty are I'm talking about, just because I can't afford a new M5 doesn't mean I never will be able too. Eventually when I do want and will buy a new car, it won't be from a place that gouges on parts. 


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

07 E63650i said:


> I know that dealer markup is possible, but I didn't know that it can get ridiculous.
> 
> View attachment 373001
> 
> ...


*sfiermon*,* aberrant*, this is just for you guys.


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## GreenLantern (Mar 30, 2013)

Haha. Wow. That's some serious markup. I haven't seen that much markup on a ~$100k var in a while.

Thanks for posting some quality humor.


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## aberrant (Apr 20, 2013)

tturedraider said:


> *sfiermon*,* aberrant*, this is just for you guys.


Holy Cow!! No thank you  I don't need a BMW so badly that I'd pay 25% over msrp for the privilege of owning one. (Though I don't really care what others do with their money.)

Thanks for sharing those pics. Hilarious.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## MRCW (Nov 4, 2009)

Joseph @ Schaeffer BMW said:


> You're right, you do not need a CA. On behalf of the manufacturer I represent, we thank you for your business and hope that all of your transactions are as easy and quick as an Amazon purchase. BUT..... what about the uneducated person that thinks a BMW is the same as a Lexus, or (heaven forbid) an Acura, or Cadillac? That person needs some selling, some convincing. That's what we are for.


I think there is room for both...

I think the time has come to rethink the entire manufacturer, dealer, purchaser experience.

Factory direct for some and handholding for others... Factory direct pricing with savings for those that already know what they want.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

rmorin49 said:


> These negative experiences with Adrian are very surprising. I think something is wrong as he has a great reputation. My experience with him was very positive.


Agreed. My new m3 is on order with him and he and I text and email several times a day.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

sfiermon said:


> Sure. I just emailed this guy. He uses fidelity insurance. He actually works for a Toyota dealer in MA. check out the website for more info - www.FD-Warranty.com
> 
> [email protected]
> 
> ...


Update on the above. Went in to sign my papers and the finance mgr matched the warranty pricing. First said the lowest he could go was $1600 (marked down from $1800). I was getting the same exact warranty for $1477. I decline. He leaves the office to talk to his manager. Comes back and matches the $1477.

Sweet but proves my points in earlier posts sadly.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## carrix (Apr 26, 2013)

Sfiermon,

What exactly is the type of the warranty you bought? Is it BMW extended warranty that covers up to 7 years or 100k miles? Is there any deductible? Does this cover any free maintenance after the initial 4 years? Also, I thought you could buy that anytime before the 4 year/50k miles, is that correct?

Thanks in advance.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

It's an extended warranty through fidelity. Not the maintenance plan. 5yr/100k


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## MasterYoda (Apr 4, 2013)

Does the fidelity warranty need to be purchased up front when the vehicle is new ? Or can it be purchased at a later date ?


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## sfiermon (Apr 28, 2011)

You can add it up to 10k miles


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## MasterYoda (Apr 4, 2013)

Ok great. Thank you


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

aberrant said:


> 5) A sales model that ensures price equity within the brand and competitiveness across brands is, to me, the best approach. However, this would require that dealerships fundamentally change the way they operate. Saturn tried this and - while it was initially successful - the secondary market allowed negotiations and I think that's one of the reasons it broke down.


I never liked Saturn's model and never will. The current system benefits folks like us who are more informed and can get better deals. Sure, there will be folks who get better deals than I, but I know I am doing better than most. In the new model that you described, I know I'll be overpaying like everyone else.



sfiermon said:


> I think what you're trying to say is adopt the apple model. They are maniacally focused on set pricing. Would be cool if BMW went this route I think.


Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your PoV), this model won't work thanks to the automobile associations around the country: Tesla takes on Car Dealers. I think BMW (and other car brands) would like this model, but thanks to the lobbyists in the auto dealerships' pockets, it will never become the norm.


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## hellosopo (Oct 16, 2009)

I didn't like the sales experience at my BMW center and had no desire to form any sort of "relationship" with this sales person. They threw "the new guy" at me (within a year he was gone). I should have left when about the first thing he said about the car was a spiel about how great RFTs are. I told him I've read all about them and I know how much they suck. "Oh no, imagine you're going to the airport to catch a flight in 45 minutes and you get a flat tire. At least now you can drive to the airport." I thought to myself, no, I can't continue my journey if the sidewall is destroyed, but I could put a spare on in 20 minutes if I had one. I didn't want to argue. We went on a five minute test drive, perhaps showing that I was still not considered a serious prospect at that point. I told him to run my credit and he was a little more excited after that. Then I eventually signed on the dotted line, to be handed over to the ridiculous finance guy. (In this old thread I glossed over my frustration with the CA since the frustration with the finance guy was even more severe.)

If I buy another BMW (we'll see how the 435i turns out) it probably won't be from my local dealer. I will likely buy out of state from a board sponsor who has European Delivery experience. I have no faith that the people at my local center could execute that properly. If the 435i doesn't tickle my fancy I'll have to go try out the Cadillac.


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