# Bio diesel



## Cooperdh (Dec 28, 2016)

So I purchased my first diesel vehicle a few months ago (2014 328d). I have been filling it with regular diesel at the gas stations. Lately I have noticed that a number of gas stations are selling bio diesel at a far lower price. I know our vehicles can take bio diesel at a certain grade. Is it worth the risk? What concerns are there? Are there others using it and if so, any issues? thanks.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Cooperdh said:


> So I purchased my first diesel vehicle a few months ago (2014 328d). I have been filling it with regular diesel at the gas stations. Lately I have noticed that a number of gas stations are selling bio diesel at a far lower price. I know our vehicles can take bio diesel at a certain grade. Is it worth the risk? What concerns are there? Are there others using it and if so, any issues? thanks.


BMW doesn't recommend (if you read your manual) using anything with more than 7% or so (B7). Most diesel being sold in the US is B5 or so, while a couple states go higher.

While it's possible, my impression from many posts over the last 6 years or so is that very few are using anything more than B5, and that there are good reasons not to use it.


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## Cooperdh (Dec 28, 2016)

floydarogers said:


> BMW doesn't recommend (if you read your manual) using anything with more than 7% or so (B7). Most diesel being sold in the US is B5 or so, while a couple states go higher.
> 
> While it's possible, my impression from many posts over the last 6 years or so is that very few are using anything more than B5, and that there are good reasons not to use it.


Thanks. I did read the manual when I obtained the vehicle. I was curious if others are using bio diesel or if it should be avoided all together. I want to avoid any problems down the road if I did choose to use it. I'm basically just looking for peoples' experience with bio diesel.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

I ran a 2001 Jetta TDI on biodiesel blends up to 100% for around 100,000 miles with no issues. VW said no more than 5% biodiesel.
I ran a 2005 Jeep Libby CRD on biodiesel blends up to 50% for around 40,000 miles with no issues.

Still have the Jetta, although the Jeep dropped a valve (at 200,000 miles, and around 80,000 miles after biodiesel became very hard to find here, so we mostly didn't use it then.) I can't ascribe the dropped valve to the biodiesel.

I have used up to 20% biodiesel in my 2012 X5 on the rare occasion when we were in areas where that was the only fuel available, although BMW says no more than 7%. No problems.

It should be noted that the primary reason given by Bosch, the maker of the fuel injection systems in all these vehicles, is the risk of cylinder wash-down and oil dilution, especially in cars with a DPF, like the X5.

In addition, there is evidence, in the form of one study from Canada a few years ago that suggested that the best lubricity/anti-wear additive you can use is at least 1/2% up to as much as 2% biodiesel (more is not necessary, just doesn't improve the lubricity over lower blends).

So, I would not worry about it, frankly. Drive more, worry less.


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## Cooperdh (Dec 28, 2016)

Michael47 said:


> I ran a 2001 Jetta TDI on biodiesel blends up to 100% for around 100,000 miles with no issues. VW said no more than 5% biodiesel.
> I ran a 2005 Jeep Libby CRD on biodiesel blends up to 50% for around 40,000 miles with no issues.
> 
> Still have the Jetta, although the Jeep dropped a valve (at 200,000 miles, and around 80,000 miles after biodiesel became very hard to find here, so we mostly didn't use it then.) I can't ascribe the dropped valve to the biodiesel.
> ...


Great info thanks! I will plan on using bio diesel when available.


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## ChimpanZed (Sep 22, 2016)

Due to HPFP concerns, I added a quart of biodiesel to a tank of regular diesel (between 0% and 5%) for the 80,000 miles that I owned my 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI. I ended up having significant emissions issues with the car at around 70,000 miles including DFP clogging, EGR valve sticking, etc. I can't prove that the biodiesel was the issue.

My two cents: modern diesels cars aren't meant to run on high biodiesel concentrations at all, let alone 100%. Don't do it.


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## Cooperdh (Dec 28, 2016)

ChimpanZed said:


> Due to HPFP concerns, I added a quart of biodiesel to a tank of regular diesel (between 0% and 5%) for the 80,000 miles that I owned my 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI. I ended up having significant emissions issues with the car at around 70,000 miles including DFP clogging, EGR valve sticking, etc. I can't prove that the biodiesel was the issue.
> 
> My two cents: modern diesels cars aren't meant to run on high biodiesel concentrations at all, let alone 100%. Don't do it.


Thanks. Yeah if I do use biodiesel, it will be below the recommended percentage just to be safe.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

ChimpanZed said:


> Due to HPFP concerns, I added a quart of biodiesel to a tank of regular diesel (between 0% and 5%) for the 80,000 miles that I owned my 2012 Jetta SportWagen TDI. I ended up having significant emissions issues with the car at around 70,000 miles including DFP clogging, EGR valve sticking, etc. I can't prove that the biodiesel was the issue.
> 
> My two cents: modern diesels cars aren't meant to run on high biodiesel concentrations at all, let alone 100%. Don't do it.


For what it is worth, it is known that DPF clogging and EGR valve issues happen with vehicles run strictly on petrodiesel. The most likely cause of DPF clogging is too many short trips such that the DPF regenerations fail to complete. You will suffer DPF clogging as well with a BMW under such circumstances even if you never allow the first drop of biodiesel in your tank.

The concentrations of biodiesel @ChimpanZed reports using are in the 1.5% to 3% range, well below the 7% BMW allows. It is possible, but unlikely that these problems were attributable to biodiesel usage. And it should be noted that there are a lot of people in the diesel repair business who panicked over biodiesel, and set off blaming every problem up to and including radios failing to the use of biodiesel in any amounts.

The issue is one of those "lots of smoke, very little fire" hot topics. The best science I've seen, and my own personal experience, says there's not much to be concerned about. Stay below the 7% level, be sure to make a few trips such that you can be sure your DPF regenerates, and you'll be fine.

With my X5 being my first diesel with a DPF, I've turned to having a Blue Driver set up to monitor exhaust gas temperature so that I will know when regenerations occur, and I've made it a point to extend my travels an extra 15-20 minutes whenever I see the EGT jump from its usual 250°C-300°C range to the 500°C range, in spite of almost never having any biodiesel in the tank.


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## Cooperdh (Dec 28, 2016)

Michael47 said:


> For what it is worth, it is known that DPF clogging and EGR valve issues happen with vehicles run strictly on petrodiesel. The most likely cause of DPF clogging is too many short trips such that the DPF regenerations fail to complete. You will suffer DPF clogging as well with a BMW under such circumstances even if you never allow the first drop of biodiesel in your tank.
> 
> The concentrations of biodiesel @ChimpanZed reports using are in the 1.5% to 3% range, well below the 7% BMW allows. It is possible, but unlikely that these problems were attributable to biodiesel usage. And it should be noted that there are a lot of people in the diesel repair business who panicked over biodiesel, and set off blaming every problem up to and including radios failing to the use of biodiesel in any amounts.
> 
> ...


Interesting. So I have the Car Wifi OBD II scan tool. Do you know if there is an app for it that would monitor regen or is it just a matter of monitoring the engine temperature? I really want to avoid having any issues down the road especially after my warranty is up.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Carly for BMW has DPF add in that does exactly what you;re looking for (monitor and force regens, recording of operating parameters.) Not cheap (~150 all in), sometimes a bit clunky if not buggy, but not difficult to use compared to other advanced tools. 

It should pay for itself as it also allows registering batteries and reads / resets BMW specific codes.


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## Cooperdh (Dec 28, 2016)

FredoinSF said:


> Carly for BMW has DPF add in that does exactly what you;re looking for (monitor and force regens, recording of operating parameters.) Not cheap (~150 all in), sometimes a bit clunky if not buggy, but not difficult to use compared to other advanced tools.
> 
> It should pay for itself as it also allows registering batteries and reads / resets BMW specific codes.


I will check that out. Thanks


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## jfxogara (Oct 26, 2012)

I bought the Carly app and the required BT sender -- but then they re-did the software so i have to buy a new BT adapter from them for another $60 which verges on a scam. I bit the bullet and bought the Foxwell 510 from ECS tuning for $199 -- ECS has a private label arrangement but that is basically what you are buying. It is terrific and it plugs in so no messing around with BT. It would definitely monitor a regen but not 100 percent sure if it could trigger one. My car is, ahem, menopausal in that regard.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Ditto Carly for BMW. I believe it has a specific DPF region monitor. I'm using Blue Driver, which does not specifically monitor for DPF regenerations, but it does monitor exhaust gas temperature, which is pretty indicative. Engine temperature, aka coolant temperature is not sensitive to the regenerations. I do normally have both EGT and Coolant temperature showing, and it is pretty clear a regeneration is underway when the EGT jumps from the normal 250-300°C to around 500°C.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

jfxogara said:


> I bought the Carly app and the required BT sender -- but then they re-did the software so i have to buy a new BT adapter from them for another $60 which verges on a scam.


I have a Carly adapter that became obsolete before I even used it once. They wouldn't take it back, or even offer credit. No more Carly for me. :thumbdwn:


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