# another Scam or Too Good ToO Be True??



## moshimaro (Sep 25, 2004)

I am currently looking into purchasing a BMW M3 from 2000-2004. I have researched in YahooAutos! and also www.AutoTrader.com. I have come to many ads that give great prices for m3's. For instance some 2003 m3's with barely 4k miles being offered for $10,000 or less. It truely unbelieveable the prices they offer. I have sent several emails regarding that I am interested. After researching their VIN's through search engines and finding out that they are possibly scams. Quite interesting... This is the current one that brought my attention.

VEHICLE INFORMATION
> Make: BMW
> Model: M3
> Year: 2003
> Price: 32000
> Mileage: 3274
> Body Style: Convertible
> Color: Silver
> Cylinders: 6 Cylinder Gasoline
> Transmission: Manual
> Doors: Two Door
> Stereo: Unavailable
> VIN: WBSBR93433PK04006

I did a search engine for that particular VIN # and found this link:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-51926

And realized that this person has placed this scam this past February 2004. I wonder how many innocent people's $$ that he/she has stolen from. I also have a reply from his email, stating:

Where are you from?
I'm in NJ right now. I have a business here.
It has a perfectly clean title. No accidents or other damages what so ever.
Not even a scratch.
I can have it shipped anywhere within US.
After you will receive it you will have a 5 days inspection period to check
it, and if after inspection everything is ok I will wait for the payment. If
after inspection you discover any problems at all and you will no longer
want it I will have the car shipped back to me. But since this is an as new
car I'm sure that there will be no problem.
I prefer certified funds (MO/cashier check) or wire transfer.
Let me know if you are interested in buying it
Regards

I guess things that are too good to be true, can just be a bliss in this society that trick innocent people in purchasing or wire transferring $$ to the unknown scam artist.

I guess the reason I posted tis is because I want buyers to be aware that this are possible VIN#'s that may have a scam behind it. I hope for future buyers to be aware and do a lil research before hurrying over to western union to give them your money.

BTW, I will continue with emailing this fellow and see how things go.

More Later...


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## moshimaro (Sep 25, 2004)

*Another SCAM??*

Here is another email I have received from a different seller.

Vehicle info:
Make: BMW
Model: M3
Year: 2002
Price: $9,300
Mileage: 22,643
VIN: wbsbr93442pk00464

This is their first reply:
Hi there ! 
Well before whe talk further,u must know some things.Right now i am in London,UK . i live here now .i moved here in London 2 months ago,anyway, about the car , i really think thats a resonable price for u and i really need to sell it as soon as possibly. the car is in great condtions , absolutely great to drive , the engine runs great , no accidents on this car , except the regular cracks from small rocks from street roads,thats normal , the car has great handling and as u can see in the pics its looks very good, i could even say that its GREAT !!
To sell it here in England,believe me i tried but no luck . here they have different standards , left steerin whell drive and above al my car still has US title . another great advantage for you cause you will not have any problems when you will registered the car in your name ! The car passed the test emissions and comes with all the documents you need to registered !
Please reply in email with any kind of question ! if your really interested i will tell u how whe can do this deal ! 
Thank u Sir 
Warm Regard !

Second Reply:
Hi There Sir ! 
I am really glad that u are still interested in my car , and i hope that i will close this deal with u,anyway , this is how whe can u so u get this car from me and how u can pay me for it : 
Car Shipping : 
1.The car will be shippt from my location ( London , UK ) to your HOME ADRESS , the shipping is done via AIR ( LUFTANSA AIR CARGO ) and the company told me that the car arrives in 72 hours to the your destination.The car will be insured at the delivery service and insured for the transport !i take car of the shipping,so be cool , u will not pay any shipping fees ! i take care of that ! 
As soon as the package arrives, you will test the car and if it does not matches 100% to your expectations, you will return it in max. 15 days since the arrival date. In this case I will send you the deposit money back and you will send me the product in the original crate and you don't have to pay the return shipping and insurance!
please in your next em ail send me your FULL ADRESS AND NAME !!
Payment : 
2.u must know that i only deal with WESTERN UNION MONEY TRANSFERING . all u must do is this . 
first u send me a deposit(2000 $) at my home adress in London that i can only pick up with my ID ! after u make the wire transfer u will send me all the Informations in order to collect the deposit 
Full Sender name and adress ,Full reciver Name and the MTCN(money transfering control number) !
After i pick up the Deposit in the exact day i will take the car in the shipping warehouse and complete the formalities for Shipping. as soon as the car arrives at you u have 8 days to send me the rest of the money ( Balance ) or if you dont have all the money i could accept monthly payments !! 
To avoid fees from Federal Express and from Western Union all we have to do is:
ME --> I have to declare the car as a gift for you and in this way you will pay NO custom fees and you will receive the car very fast. 
YOU --> have to declare at Western Union that you send the money to a friend in England that need this money, in this way when our deal will be finished and I get the money from Western Union they will not gone ask me 10% from the total amount that you have send it, they will gone ask me just 3% or 4%. (ALL OF THIS IS ONLY IF YOU AGREE).

In conclusiong, I have not sent my information to this sir/madam. However, you can totally see that it is fraudulent. Considering that you are paying them first with no information about them at all, not even an address. Also, they offered to paying shipping, as in the last link i listed, including shipping is a rare, ESP. offering a 2002 M3 for $9,300. How can we stop these people? :thumbdwn:


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

What M3 are you looking for. Coupes and Convertibles have different VINs. The 4th through 7th position will tell you what it is.


Coupes: BL93
Convertibles: BR93

So if you're looking for a M3 coupe, the vins don't match. Red Flag.

Also, I'm not certain on this one but the 11th position indicates the factory it came from. I believe M3s with a location code of P only started to appear in late model year 03 and model year 04. So for MY02 or MY03 you should have an E or J there.

Therefore I believe the second one you posted is probably bunk.


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## moshimaro (Sep 25, 2004)

*VIN #'s*

You can never really tell if they are scamming you by just the VIN. The above 2 models I covered are both Convertibles. I guess it is up to the person to use their best judgement in whether to send $2000 overseas to purchase a vehicle that they have not seen yet. Also, it is so easy to get VIN #'s. Especially for convertibles, since they can just walk down the street take a few pictures of the car and get the VIN from the front window shield. There is no way to protect people that want to purchase vehicles from Autos.yahoo.com or www.AutoTrader.com or even other places. It is really up to the person to use their best judgement.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

moshimaro said:


> You can never really tell if they are scamming you by just the VIN. The above 2 models I covered are both Convertibles. I guess it is up to the person to use their best judgement in whether to send $2000 overseas to purchase a vehicle that they have not seen yet. Also, it is so easy to get VIN #'s. Especially for convertibles, since they can just walk down the street take a few pictures of the car and get the VIN from the front window shield. There is no way to protect people that want to purchase vehicles from Autos.yahoo.com or www.AutoTrader.com or even other places. It is really up to the person to use their best judgement.


Right, of course. But my point was if they happen to have overlooked little details like that, it's an instant giveaway that it is bunk. Just trying to help...

Good luck with your search.


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

would YOU sell an E46 m3 for under $10k? Think about it.

If it is too good to be true...it is.


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## moshimaro (Sep 25, 2004)

thank you for helping, sorry if i offended you. i guess in frustration i feel bad for those people that actually believe that they can get an m3 for that cheap. I actually told 3 of my friends the situation 'bout the seller wanting me to send the money to them and they will send me the car, so on and so forth. Funny thing, they all thought it was a great idea, until i try to tell them its a scam. Maybe my friends are just stupid or i didn't explain the situation well enough. Anywho, there are many stupid people out there, uneducated people that doesn't do research before they purchase. And I am trying to prevent that from happening by writing in these threads. Hehe... anywho... thank you for replies and comments/opinions. ^_^ Its greatly appreciated....


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## moshimaro (Sep 25, 2004)

*m3*

i'm purchasing a brand new m3 e46 tis coming week. only a coupe though, not a convertible. i want a steel gray color, but more than likely i am gonna end up w/ a silver. hm.. we will see...


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## flybigjet (Feb 20, 2004)

Guys, come ON! 

1. The frelling *engine/transmission* is almost worth $10,000. You think anybody who paid $55K+ for an M3 won't know to check NADA, KBB, CarPoint, Edmunds, etc to find a reasonable resale price? Would *YOU* sell this car at a $10,000 pricepoint? 

2. Luftansa Air Shipment from SomePlace, Europe to WhateverTown, USA in 72 hours? At the seller's expense? Guys, I carry air freight for a living- we're talking TENS of thousands of dollars- so now the seller is *paying* you to buy his car.

3. Western Union. Oldest rip-off in the e-commerce book; why do you think eBay hammers "No Western Union, No Western Union, No Western Union" in all their auction how-to's? It's because once the money is picked up, it's gone. No recourse, no tracking, no fall-back plan, no hope of recovery. Just put a bunch of large denomination bills into an envelope (without your return address) and mail it to a complete stranger- it'll be a *lot* simpler and you'll end up with the same end result.

Geez, get a grip people. If you can't see it, or touch it, or have an independent third part verify it, the odds are astronomically high that it's a scam- and even if you can see, touch, verify, it's still in the realm of caveat emptor. Use a little common sense here- an almost new car for 1/6th of its fair market value, AND they'll ship (the US spec car that just happens to have ended up in europe- riiight) it to you? Tell you what- skip the M3, and I'll sell you one of my jets- far better performance for the price! R.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Buy expensive cars at a dealership....dont think you can get a good deal on a M3....honeslty....unless you are in a financial MESS, get married, or just plain ol spoiled..i dont think M3 owners are going to give up their machines...its a classic... and always will be.....

get a certified M3 at a BMW dealership...your best bet


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