# Most all of your Program questions answered (e.g., Nov. Residuals)



## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

iwantone said:


> I believe the killer deal for November is the Activehybrid 750i. $13,500 off combined with ED + MSD brings the payment under $700/ month for a car with MSRP approx $100k


Without ED, what is impact on payment?


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## sean18337 (Jan 5, 2011)

That is great information, thank you.

For the 2012 X3 3.5i, Would I be able to add the $1,000 loyalty to the $455 power tailgate and the $500 APR Credit for a total credit reduction of $1955 if I financed thru BMW..?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

sean18337 said:


> That is great information, thank you.
> 
> For the 2012 X3 3.5i, Would I be able to add the $1,000 loyalty to the $455 power tailgate and the $500 APR Credit for a total credit reduction of $1955 if I financed thru BMW..?


Why not?

:dunno:


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## 4-series (Oct 7, 2006)

Jon, Thanks a lot!

EDIT: When will the 3-series SEDAN rates come out?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

4-series said:


> Jon, Thanks a lot!
> 
> EDIT: When will the 3-series SEDAN rates come out?


Probably late January/early February is my best guess. At the E46 3 Series World Launch was when we got the first rates and residuals (March 1998)...


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## deenx (Nov 11, 2011)

Last month my local dealer in NJ listed a 2011 BMW 550i xDrive Gran Turismo with 2 discounts moving the ~$78K MSRP to a sales price of ~$62K in their online inventory. I saw the car as I browsed on 10/31 and wasn't able to inquire about it. I tried sending an email but never heard back from them. I wasn't particularly interested in this car, but with that kind of discount I certainly became curious. I am looking to lease an X5 but am not happy at all with the lease numbers and may have to go with MB. However, if I saw the 550i xDrive GT at $62Kish I would give it serious consideration. Does anyone know what the discount was and if there's any chance it will be offered again?


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## Matt_UKTX (Jan 9, 2006)

deenx said:


> I am looking to lease an X5 but am not happy at all with the lease numbers


Why on earth not? I just leased a brand new X5 35d with ZPP, ZAP, Multicontour Seats and Space Saver Spare for only $750 per month, with ZERO down. I'm not sure how you would think those are not good numbers.

Are you shopping around? You should easily be able to get an Invoice + $500 deal on any X5. Add to that the many rebates and incentives that are available. Some people are getting X5 35d's for $5000 UNDER invoice after rebates.

Even the 50i is not a bad deal. It has an excellent high residual, and they just improved the Owner Loyalty program.


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## deenx (Nov 11, 2011)

Thanks for the observation. Yes... I've shopped around. The best deal I have found for the X5 35d listed at $62,375 is just below $800/month 36 month with 12,000 miles.


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## Dominican330 (May 22, 2006)

Are the navigation credit and mission to drive credits for the X5 lockable like the MF and residuals? So if I get approval this month but don't sign the lease until February (90 day lock for west coast) will I still receive the navigation and mission to drive credits since I got approval this month? This would be for a US delivery.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Dominican330 said:


> Are the navigation credit and mission to drive credits for the X5 lockable like the MF and residuals? So if I get approval this month but don't sign the lease until February (90 day lock for west coast) will I still receive the navigation and mission to drive credits since I got approval this month? This would be for a US delivery.


You should have 90 days from the expiration date of the bulletin in play at the time of pre-approval from BMWFS, so make sure that happens.


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## petriej (Jul 29, 2010)

No more ActiveHybrid X6?


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## fq (Nov 9, 2003)

Wrong! The assumption in this statement is that "margins" are being disclosed. The disclosure of these rates does NOT disclose margins but discloses a standard rate that a finance company charges customers at a particular time. "Margin" would be if the finance company's cost of capital was also being disclosed. In any case, if BMWFS/dealer can get away with charging a .01 MF and a $2000/mo lease on a $60k X5, more power to them. And if I as a consumer can negotiate the same vehicle for $200/mo, more power to me. Not that either of these payments will happen, but the point is whether information dissemination allows buyers and sellers to achieve price discovery via final monthly payment of others or via knowing the MF or via knowing the perceived "invoice price", it all results in a more efficient marketplace for the informed consumer who is willing to do his research.



chrischeung said:


> If every company in every industry was forced to disclose margins...


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## fq (Nov 9, 2003)

Matt, congrats on a great car! Question: it seems like you are in TX, where they charge sales tax on the entire value of the car for the lease. If that is where your car is registered and your $750/mo with zero down includes the sales tax, that is one heck of a deal. Did you have a trade (that might have reduced the tax) or do you know if the dealer used tax credits to offset your taxes?



Matt_UKTX said:


> Why on earth not? I just leased a brand new X5 35d with ZPP, ZAP, Multicontour Seats and Space Saver Spare for only $750 per month, with ZERO down. I'm not sure how you would think those are not good numbers.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

fq said:


> Wrong! The assumption in this statement is that "margins" are being disclosed.


I think you are deliberately defining "margin" in a manner that may be strictly correct, though is not how I and others are using it to be the markup between BMWFS base rates and actual rates charged to end clients for this thread. And yes, there is no disclosure on particular dealer markups, but if BMW fully disclosed its base rates, anyone could deduce from a dealer quote the exact markup.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Matt_UKTX said:


> Why on earth not?


They may be comparing the lease against that of the Benz since it is indicated that MB is a possibility. Is it possible that the Benz would be a cheaper lease than the X5 at the moment, and that would explain the comment? I have no idea how Benz's are leasing at the moment, but it would explain the comment.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

fq said:


> it all results in a more efficient marketplace for the informed consumer who is willing to do his research.


Is it really efficient? I could argue it both ways. Yes it is efficient in terms of supply/demand - however, all it does is force profit elsewhere to things like used cars and the service department. Is it really efficient if you're making another operation more inefficient?

In addition, keep going down the road of lower margins, and I could see that small dealers closing, and we'll be left with just BMW WalMart and BMW Target. It's great when you're WalMart and Target (or working for them), but not so good for everyone else.

Personally, I don't mind which way it goes (disclosure or not), and I'll play it either way to my best benefit. Why worry about something out of your control?


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## fq (Nov 9, 2003)

I am using "margin" as to what margin actually is, as opposed to any perceived interpretation by you or your understanding of others' perception. Dealers can charge what they want as long as the market can bear it and consumers are free to deduce what went into the numbers and get information in any legal way that they can.



chrischeung said:


> I think you are deliberately defining "margin" in a manner that may be strictly correct, though is not how I and others are using it to be the markup between BMWFS base rates and actual rates charged to end clients for this thread. And yes, there is no disclosure on particular dealer markups, but if BMW fully disclosed its base rates, anyone could deduce from a dealer quote the exact markup.


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## fq (Nov 9, 2003)

One of the principles of the efficient markets theory (paraphrased) is that prices reflect all information currently available to market participants. Knowing different MFs currently being charged by MBFS, BMWFS, Porsche FS, etc. and monthly prices being paid for somewhat similar vehicles by others makes markets more efficient in which one informed consumer does not get gouged and another gets an exceptional deal. That's all I am saying .



chrischeung said:


> Is it really efficient? I could argue it both ways. Yes it is efficient in terms of supply/demand - however, all it does is force profit elsewhere to things like used cars and the service department. Is it really efficient if you're making another operation more inefficient?
> 
> In addition, keep going down the road of lower margins, and I could see that small dealers closing, and we'll be left with just BMW WalMart and BMW Target. It's great when you're WalMart and Target (or working for them), but not so good for everyone else.
> 
> Personally, I don't mind which way it goes (disclosure or not), and I'll play it either way to my best benefit. Why worry about something out of your control?


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

FYI the X3 power tailgate $455 is for that option as a "stand alone option" can't be in a package.........


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## Matt_UKTX (Jan 9, 2006)

fq said:


> Matt, congrats on a great car! Question: it seems like you are in TX, where they charge sales tax on the entire value of the car for the lease. If that is where your car is registered and your $750/mo with zero down includes the sales tax, that is one heck of a deal. Did you have a trade (that might have reduced the tax) or do you know if the dealer used tax credits to offset your taxes?


FQ, yes I had a trade in and the dealer gave me $1000 in sales tax credits. It was an amazing deal and I'm delighted with it.

Does anyone know how the sales tax credits work? I've often wondered how dealers can do this.

Sent from my Android device using Bimmer


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## Matt_UKTX (Jan 9, 2006)

deenx said:


> Thanks for the observation. Yes... I've shopped around. The best deal I have found for the X5 35d listed at $62,375 is just below $800/month 36 month with 12,000 miles.


Deenx, you need to shop harder. There are a dozen sponsors in this forum that will sell you this car for $500 over invoice delivered to your door. Dencoop did a deal for $200 over invoice for someone I know the other day.

Sent from my Android device using Bimmer


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## fq (Nov 9, 2003)

Matt, thanks for the reply.

My understanding is that the captive finance companies have sales tax credits generated from lease returns in states where the entire value of the car is taxed in a lease. These credits can be made available to consumers to move cars or the companies just use them for increasing their own profits. The whole idea of taxing the entire value of the vehicle in a lease is a scam perpetrated in those states by their lawmakers to benefit dealers and finance companies in the long run. On average, they do not generate any additional tax revenue for the local governments than taxing the just the lease payment or only the depreciation, except during the first 2-3years of when the law would have gone into effect.



Matt_UKTX said:


> FQ, yes I had a trade in and the dealer gave me $1000 in sales tax credits. It was an amazing deal and I'm delighted with it.
> 
> Does anyone know how the sales tax credits work? I've often wondered how dealers can do this.
> 
> Sent from my Android device using Bimmer


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## Matt_UKTX (Jan 9, 2006)

Excellent explanation. Thanks 

Sent from my Android device using Bimmer


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## bzcat (Sep 23, 2009)

Can someone help me out with *2011* residual for November?

Specifically, 335i convertible.

Thanks


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## dgkfl (Feb 7, 2005)

[email protected] BMW said:


> FYI the X3 power tailgate $455 is for that option as a "stand alone option" can't be in a package.........


Greg, forgive me, I'm not doubting you, but in that case that seems to be a very ingenuous offer. For example, I'm looking at a 35i, and the power tailgate is included in the Premium Package. How many people are going to order a 35i without the Premium Package? So you're saying if you order the Premium Package you don't get this rebate?

David


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

yep........ you have to get that stand alone option.. odd right.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

*Maybe this will help to clarify*.

"A $455 Option Credit has been added for MY12 X3's equipped with the Power Tailgate as a stand-alone option (Option 316 only). In addition, vehicles that are not equipped with the power tailgate will receive a $250 non-Power Tailgate Option Credit."

"Vehicle must be equipped with the stand alone option only (option 316) to receive the Power Tailgate Option Credit of $455. The Convenience Package on the X3 2.8i and the Premium Package on the X3 3.5i will not be eligible for the Power Tailgate Option Credit of $455."

"Vehicle must NOT be equipped with the stand alone option (option 316) or the Convenience Package on the X3 2.8i or the Premium Package on the X3 3.5i to receive the Non Power Tailgate Option Credit of $250."

It makes my brain hurt reading this over again...


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

335 convertible is 62% for 15k


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## bzcat (Sep 23, 2009)

[email protected] BMW said:


> 335 convertible is 62% for 15k


Is that for 2011 or 2012 model? It seems weird that 2011 and 2012 would have the same residual.


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## dgkfl (Feb 7, 2005)

Jon Shafer said:


> *Maybe this will help to clarify*.
> 
> "A $455 Option Credit has been added for MY12 X3's equipped with the Power Tailgate as a stand-alone option (Option 316 only). In addition, vehicles that are not equipped with the power tailgate will receive a $250 non-Power Tailgate Option Credit."
> 
> ...


Wow, so BMW is offering an incentive NOT to get the Convenience Package or Premium Package. That's quite weird IMHO.


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## j3ff (Nov 20, 2011)

dgkfl said:


> Wow, so BMW is offering an incentive NOT to get the Convenience Package or Premium Package. That's quite weird IMHO.


maybe it's more of a fake incentive. looks good in the advertising but not many people end up taking advantage of it.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

Jon Shafer said:


> Probably late January/early February is my best guess. At the E46 3 Series World Launch was when we got the first rates and residuals (March 1998)...


Jon, do you have 2011 3 series sedan residual numbers?

I like the fact your table has the 24-mo. and 30-mo. residuals. However I read that BMW is promoting 27-mo. lease on some 2011 3 series sedan models.


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## TheRookie007 (Nov 25, 2011)

Do you have the residual (36 mo.) on a 2011 550i? Thank you for all the information you provide.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

@ The Rookie  51% for 15k


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

Jon Shafer said:


> *Maybe this will help to clarify*.
> 
> "A $455 Option Credit has been added for MY12 X3's equipped with the Power Tailgate as a stand-alone option (Option 316 only). In addition, vehicles that are not equipped with the power tailgate will receive a $250 non-Power Tailgate Option Credit."
> 
> ...


Who dreams this up? I he the same guy that has the Nerf cubicle walls? 
So are the loyalty and BMWCCA credits still available for the X3 on top of the option/non option and the Mission to Drive credits? I'm getting conflicting info locally.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

pistolpuma said:


> Who dreams this up? I he the same guy that has the Nerf cubicle walls?
> So are the loyalty and BMWCCA credits still available for the X3 on top of the option/non option and the Mission to Drive credits? I'm getting conflicting info locally.


The thing is, BMW doesn't have to provide any incentive to move the X3. They can't build enough of them.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

dtc100 said:


> The thing is, BMW doesn't have to provide any incentive to move the X3. They can't build enough of them.


Yeah, I heard that too. But without the almost $2K in incentives that I qualify for, I'd be buying a Q5. There's that much difference by the time you add up the meaningful options. It's grabbed my attention big time and brought me back from the dark side.


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