# Smoothness vs Tire wear



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

OK, I know I am not the smoothest driver out there, but it's pretty crazy what smoothness can do to your tire life, according to Hack. :yikes: 

Remember back when I had the M3 and I was going through tires like water? Ya know, corded and used up, with some punctured ones here and there. Well, this weekend Hack pointed out an interesting observation on my tires on the 325is and the Turbo. 

The Turbo has been to 4.5 schools, that's Sears Point, Button Willow, Vegas, Button Willow, and Thunder Hill. The front tires are virtually brand spanking new. The rear has some outside wear due to the negative camber from the factory, but other than that, no wear in 10K miles. :thumbup: All five schools were done in B. 

The 325is has been to 2 schools, Laguna Seca and Sears Point. The front tires have pretty worn edges indicative of track wear, while the rears are basically brand new.  Both schools were done in C.

Rewind back to the E46 M3 days, the outside edges of my tires were corded and toast in two schools. :banghead: Out of the 5.5 schools, only 1 was in B. 

So if Hack's theory of me being smoother is correct, after this coming weekend at Button Willow with the 325is, the shoulders on the 325is front tires should show no additional wear. Hmm, now I am really intrigued. Using front tire shoulders as an indicator of a driver's smoothness. :drive: 

What do y'all think of this theory? :dunno:


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Being smooth and asking your tires to do only one thing at a time (traction account) can contribute to longer tire life... but it doesn't mean you won't get any wear... you'll just make your tires last longer...


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## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

Yes, I agree... being a smooth driver equals longer tire life. That is one of the things I learned from experience this year.

However, looking at someone's tires to determine if they're a smooth driver might not be accurate. On one of my track sessions this weekend, I dropped my front tire pressure way too low and ended up with some exsesive tire wear on the outside edge.

So, looking at someone's tires, you might be able to tell if they're a smooth driver, or it might just mean they made a bonehead mistake on tire pressures.


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## Interlocker (Jun 27, 2003)

With all the track time you've had, and having seen you on track, I have no doubt that you should be a bit smoother now. Your tire wear indicating smoothness, however, may not be totally accurate.

It might be accurate if you were looking at the same tires, on the same car, from the same track with no alterations to that vehicles suspension, allignment or tire pressures. When you're comparing an AWD Turbo Porsche to a front-engined, rear-drive, stock-suspended and tall-tired E30, however, I don't really think you can use that as a good comparison.

I do think that the overall longevity of the tires on a given vehicle without many changes to it's set up could be valid.

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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

driver smoothness won't make up for suspension & setup inequities  with limited front camber a smooth driver won't induce understeer as much, but ultimately the front corners will still wear off


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

Stuka said:


> What do y'all think of this theory? :dunno:


Who's this HACK character? :dunno:


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> Who's this HACK character? :dunno:


 :rofl: 

Stuka, I get basic jist of your theory and I'd have to agree with you. Comparing then and now, your driving is much smoother. I'd also say, now that you are smooth, time to find out how much traction your tires have once you're in a turn! :eeps:


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Stuka said:


> What do y'all think of this theory? :dunno:


I'm thinking it may be the other way around- the smoother you are, the more tire you use up.

Here's my reasoning from this past weekend at Mid Ohio: I had never been at that track before. So early on Saturday, I was driving tentatively, all over the track. First trying to memorize the track, then pick a good line for me, etc. That wasn't terribly taxing on the car. And I was not too smooth during that time.

But by late Sunday, I was much smoother (relative to Saturday AM- I still have a long way to go before I'm officially "smooth") and more comfortable with the track. So then I started really leaning on the tires. With much better knowledge of where I wanted the car, I really used the tires to their maximum grip as I went through the turns. And that scrubbed the tires much, much more than Saturday.

On the 2 last sessions, while out on the track, clawing through the turns with the tires really working their hardest, I was thinking "This is really fun. And I'm racking up a big tire bill for the near future."

So it seems to me that the smoother you are, the more you really push things, in general, and so the more you scrub away the tires. (And the more fun you have.  )


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

JonW said:


> I'm thinking it may be the other way around- the smoother you are, the more tire you use up.
> 
> So it seems to me that the smoother you are, the more you really push things, in general, and so the more you scrub away the tires. (And the more fun you have.  )


I disagree... imagine if you were going as fast as you were without being smooth.... you might be understeering and doing sudden directional changes on the tires causing more rubber to be scraped off than normal for those speeds.... (not that you would but hypothetically speaking...) so yes you would be leaning on the tires more as your speeds went up but if you weren't smooth imagine the kind of wear you'd be putting your tires through... much like when racers lock up their tires, they get flat spots in the tread.


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## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

My definition of a smooth driver is someone who is pushing the car to it’s limits while making gentle steering, throttle and braking inputs and not causing the car to understeer or oversteer.

My definition of someone who is not smooth, would be someone who is pushing the car to it’s limits while making abrupt steering, throttle and braking inputs and/or causing the car to understeer or oversteer (driver induced).

In both cases the car is being pushed to it’s limits, however the smooth driver is putting less wear on the tires. Although I would agree, a car that is not being pushed to it’s limits would put even less wear on the tires.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Sure. What you and Andy say makes sense to me, theoretically.

But I was thinking about it in a practical sense. So as you say:



doeboy said:


> I disagree... imagine if you were going as fast as you were without being smooth....


If you're not smooth I think you cannot go as fast. If you were going just as fast without being smooth, you'd be off the track.

I was thinking that if you really are not as smooth, you simply cannot go as fast. And you will, for example, go too deep into a turn, and then overcorrect to get back toward the apex. That scenario has you scrubbing the tires for less time that a controlled, smooth turn all the way around the corner. And so the smoothyl taken turn scrubs off more.

But hey, it's just semantics. We're all right. :beerchug:


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## Mike48162 (Oct 17, 2003)

*More ideas*



JonW said:


> So it seems to me that the smoother you are, the more you really push things, in general, and so the more you scrub away the tires. (And the more fun you have.  )


Maybe some. But what I think of about being smooth is that a smooth driver will tend to use the traction available at all four corners. Thus diving into corners and driving out under power, all four tires will be working hard across their total tread widths. No tire or a part of a tire's tread is being asked to do more than it can do.

When we overdrive and are unsmooth, then we tend not to use all the available traction of the four tires. So when I drive too fast into a corner and see I will swing wide of the apex, I then must overcorrect and turn the wheel more which overloads the outside front tire edgewhich leads to cording of outside edges. If I slam on the brakes too hard, I can flat spot my tires. If before I have my wheel straight I hammer the power too much coming out of a corner and slide the rear end, I wear out the back tires.

I suppose if I could drive 10/10's smoothly all around the course that this would really work the tires very hard. But still the tires would last longer than overdriving them unsmoothly. If I drove hard and well, but overheated the tires...I guess I would need to select some tires with a higher operating temperature range.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

Interlocker said:


> With all the track time you've had, and having seen you on track, I have no doubt that you should be a bit smoother now.


 :eeps: Are you saying he couldn't be any less smooth with time? :eeps: :lmao:

:angel:


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