# Incorrect DEF Fluid and Countdown to No Start 2014 328D



## timmyboysd (Jan 28, 2020)

Hey guys, 

I have been reading all the info I can on this and I feel handcuffed. First, let me preface this with the fact that I am not an advanced mechanic. 

In 2015, I bought mt 1st BMW. The 328D. It's a salvage title that I got with 1500 miles on it. I absolutely love this car. Mt thinking was, if I can get 100K out of this car with no problems, I would be happy. The day after Thanksgiving, the High-Pressure Fuel Pump went out No problem, Got it fixed ($1800), but recently found out it would have been covered :bawling:. Anyways, about 6 weeks later, The infamous "Wrong Exhaust Fluid Warning Light comes on, with 200 miles left to no start. Of course, I panic a bit and start researching. There's enough info and horror stories on this topic to make anyone have a panic attack. I come up with the plan of first taking it to the mechanic who did the fuel pump. He didn't want to mess with it. He said, there's so many things it could be, that I should take it to the dealer. So I thought it would be best to have him drain the current DEF and refill with fresh def. He did that and also cleaned the crystalized injector. I picked up the car and took it to BMW San Diego. The service advisor plays it down and signs me up for basic maintenance, no problem, it was a little overdue (not long) It was $1000. The car currently has 51K miles. No problem there, I also mention the Emissions Warranty and Manufacturer Responsibilities under the
Clean Air Act and he claimed he was on my side and do everything he can to help me. It felt good. Then he called 4 days later to inform me I had the wrong DEF fluid in there. I used a brand new box of Blue DEF when the other mechanic refilled it. He said it would be $2200 to drain and replace the DEF. I lovingly informed him, again, that the other mechanic just did it, the same day I dropped the car off with them. He began to get irritated with me and snaps and say "do you want to get this done right or not"? I said hell no, I am not paying $2200 for a job that cost me $150 to get done 4 days ago. I immediately went down there to discuss in person. I found the Service Manager and spoke to him and the mechanic. They informed me that this is not covered under the EPA Warranty because I used the wrong DEF fluid. Now, stated on the box of the DEF fluid is "Works with all diesel engines" I ask them what the difference between the Bleu Def and the BMW DEF, and they couldn't give me an answer. The mechanic told me I should replace the DEF fluid with BMW stuff and drive the car and the light should go off. I asked if he had to clear the codes are reprogram for the warning lights. He said no. Now I have 37 miles left before no start. I feel like the dealer is working me. The car is currently at an Independent shop trying to troubleshoot what is wrong. So here I am asking a BMW enthusiast group for any guidance or advice as to what I should do now. I have attached the EPA Clean Air Act Document that states, it doesn't matter if it is salvaged. It is still under warranty 7 years/70k Miles. 

Give it to me straight guys


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Unfortunately for some dealers, BMW stands for "bring my wallet" - look at it like health care - they think they have you.

I usually have been able to find, often by word of mouth, the right private mechanic for my "exotic" German automobiles. My current on loves diesels and is from Bavaria.

"$2200 to drain and replace the DEF" must be a typo, no? To my best estimate and past experience, all DEF is the same. It only matters how fresh it is. Problems with the DEF system are usually independent of the fluid if it is fresh to my knowledge and experience. BMW covers 335d DEF system problems to a certain extent with an extended warranty.


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## EricD735i (Jan 8, 2020)

Have the NOX sensors checked.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

DEF is made to an ISO standard and is used worldwide and is a commodity item. DEF is 32.5% Urea and 67.5% deionized water.

DEF is DEF is DEF is DEF...is DEF.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

\
Oh boy... this specific scenario has occurred before. <ultiple times. In fact the whole 'NBMW dealer is telling me its bad def and is screwing me...what do I do' has been repeated. If I find it I will link

DEF is DEF/. BMW, as a LEGAL manner cannot insist on "BMW DEF". If they keep insisting, YOU MUST GET THIS IN WRITING on a BMW work order.

Issues with the DEF injector, the NOX sensor and the SCR can can occur which make the DDE (engine computer) think -think- that the "DEF must be bad".

The published BMW workflow checklist has specific steps, and as I recall one is to test the DEF. DID THE DEALER TEST THE DEF?

OP- you posted some nonsense document that you think guarantees you a warranty. You are sadly mistaken. Ranting about this with the dealer is likely causing them t shut down. Yes, there may be a requirement for extending som 'emissions warranty' for a totaled car. BUT WHAT WARRANTY? It doesn't mean 'anything related to emissions'. You need to actually read AND UNDERSTAND the BMW emissions warranty. It is surprisingly 'slim'. Two years on 'performance'. This means ANYTHING wrong, they must fix it. The BMW warranty is 4 years, so this is always covered. The longer warranty is for ONLY specific components. And this varies by state. 

You have strategically kept your state a secret.

You got hustled by the service salesman (aka SA). Pretend to be a buddy, sign you up for overpriced garbage maintenance, they hook you in and hammer you. Tell them their diagnosis is not complete without a written DEF test report.

Find some other examples of people with this 'bad DEF' issue, read and understand them. You will be a MUCH better consumer.

Finally, doesn't sound like you do any work. Sounds like all you can do is go to shops and hope they arent (1)thieves or (2)idiots. Hence suggestions like 'check your nox' or 'flush your abc' are likely unhelpful. You need advice on how to manage service providers. Confirm this is your challenge.



Edit. Maybe you are in California (went to BMW San Diego). Good news. There are a large number of covered components that go to 7/70. Find that list.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Possibly due to a clogged DEF nozzle in the exhaust system? IIRC this can cause the same error code due to the DDE seeing NOx levels not being reduced.

How is the car driven? Is the car regularly driven hard and on long trips or "babied" and/or used only for short trips? Also, how frequently is the car driven, i.e., used as a daily driver or mostly a Garage Queen? I've noticed a pattern where clogged DEF nozzle issues with incorrect DEF fluid errors seem to be more common in cars that are driven infrequently and used only for short trips when driven. It might explain why I've never had an issue with DEF in more than 200k miles of BMW diesel ownership given my 100 miles per day highway commute (50 miles haulin' arse each way).


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Google this:

"Incorrect DEF" site:bimmerfest.com

Ton of hits. Read

For example from 2013, when we were all newbs:



Penguin said:


> BMW introductory documentat
> 
> ```
> 
> ...


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

timmyboysd said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have been reading all the info I can on this and I feel handcuffed. First, let me preface this with the fact that I am not an advanced mechanic.
> 
> ...


The mechanic suggested that you take out unknown DEF and install DEF that has a direct and verifiable supply chain? That's reasonable in many situations.

Chrystalizing on the injector seems like poor spray pattern, WAG.

You thinking that you could buy a new model BMW as a salvage repair and get it to 100k without any issues? That's ....misguided.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

ard said:


> google this:
> 
> "incorrect def" site:bimmerfest.com
> 
> ...


+1


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## timmyboysd (Jan 28, 2020)

Hey guys, 

Thanks for all your input. I took to an independent shop and for just under $600, got the NOX sensor replaced. Running like always, incredible but without the warning lights. Thanks again for taking the time to post.


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## Best4x4xfar (Oct 3, 2008)

Are you sitting down? This may be insult to injury, but go to: http://www.bmw-rp.com/production/bmw/reimbursement_bmw_portal.nsf

Plug in your VIN..
This will list components of your vehicle that fall under BMW Extended Warranties..

Any work you had done to the covered components, _*BEFORE*_ BMW extended Warranties where announced, *COULD* be eligible for reimbursement, if you have the proper documentation.

If you had the work done at a non dealer AFTER BMW announced the warranty extensions however, you are not eligible for reimbursement. Your NOX sensors are likely covered, but because you had them replaced after the warranty extension was announced, you would not be eligible for reimbursement (you would have had to have the dealer warranty them at no cost to you).

*MAYBE* you could make a case with BMW NA that the dealer misdiagnosed the issue, FORCING you to use an independent shop to properly repair the vehicle. Good documentation of this, *AND* a letter from an attorney threatening lawsuit MIGHT motivate BMW to reimburse you in this case, but probably not because you refused the ridiculous $2,200 drain and refill procedure (which you should have, it was total money grab BS)..

Gotta Love this Crap..


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