# Why should I buy a BMW when they are so undependable?



## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

To OP, my current 2013 F30 328i N26 + ZF 8AT is now 8 years and 76k miles with minimal maintenance and no repair bill so far.

This car has 15 years/150000 miles emission warranty on many expensive parts, so in general the factory emission components are expected to last beyond 10 years/100000 miles for BMW's own bottom line.

So far this current F30 costs around $2400 after 4 years/50000 miles new car warranty, including 2 sets of 4 new RFT tires.

My previous 2001 E39 530i M54 + 5MT lasted 12 years and 100k miles with $7k(mixed dealer and indy) out of pocket expense after warranty expiration, including tires. The last 2 years saw $3k of misc. fixes to get ready for next 100000 miles, and the car was sold after 12 years for $7k(probably could have asked $9k).

So my own experience of BMW out-of-pocket costs(even without expensive extended service contracts) is not bad at all.


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## jeff661 (Sep 22, 2017)

My 530ex is my first BMW. I have 45k miles and I'm planning to replace it in the next 3 months with an X5 45e. I haven't spent any money on anything other than tires so far. My prior car was an Audi A6 TDI. When i owned that, I swore I wouldn't own another German car. Oil changes were over $100 and every scheduled service was over $1,000. When that car went to an early grave (debris on the road tore up the underside and totaled the car), I decided that getting carpool lane stickers was worth trying another German car. The 530e has been good. I like it a lot. However, if i was going to own it a long time, I might be concerned about the maintenance cost. Before the A6, I owned two Acura MDXs. No repair costs on either with near 100,000 miles on each and maintenance was pretty reasonable. It's interesting if you look at the cost of the of an extended warranty. BMW is like $5,000. I bought a 7 year/100k warranty for my daughter's Honda Accord for around $800.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

NJRonbo said:


> BMW is rated one of the most unreliable vehicles out there. From all I have read, the engine has plastic parts. The cars generally run great the first 3-4 years and then the expensive repairs begin.
> 
> Am I right or wrong in my assumption?


Show me where you read this from a credible source.

I've been running this forum for 20 years, usually when I see a thread begins, I am not trying to blah, blah, blah, that is exactly the intent.

The same complaints could be made or said about _any_ car.


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## jeff661 (Sep 22, 2017)

Jon Shafer said:


> Show me where you read this from a credible source.
> 
> I've been running this forum for 20 years, usually when I see a thread begins, I am not trying to blah, blah, blah, that is exactly the intent.
> 
> The same complaints could be made or said about _any_ car.


Consumer Reports rates the X5 as much less reliable than average. Top New SUV Reviews | Best New SUV - Consumer Reports They rate reliability of Lexus GX (top rated) at 91% and X5 at 20%.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Expensive cars are not for everyone.

Yes, it is an AH thing to say, but its true.

I buy and like the cars I have because I WANT TO DRIVE AND OWN THEM. Not because they are cheap or reliable. 

OP says he would "like to be in a BMW".... when that "like" becomes "really want" or "gotta have it", then Id say the reliability issue will no longer be an impediment.

And here's the thing: from personal experience I dont think BMWs are particularly unreliable.

But again, back to my point- there is no amount of discussion or 'penciling out numbers' that addresses this issue: if you cannot risk the $$$, go with an appliance automobile.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

OP. 80k? Buy a 2-3year old lease return, add an extended warranty. NOW you are talking dream car territory. 50-55% of original MSRP.

Not saying BMW, just in terms of wise use of $


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

jeff661 said:


> Consumer Reports rates the X5 as much less reliable than average. Top New SUV Reviews | Best New SUV - Consumer Reports They rate reliability of Lexus GX (top rated) at 91% and X5 at 20%.


Sorry, I am not going to pay to unlock ratings. I actually sell new BMWs and keep in close contact with my customers. X5 have been a best-seller like forever (since initial launch in 2000), and most owners lease a new one every 36 months. If they were 80% crap, that would not happen. I've owned two myself. My E70 is one the best cars I've ever owned and it has 100k mi on the clock.


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## SteveinArizona (Sep 12, 2016)

jeff661 said:


> Consumer Reports rates the X5 as much less reliable than average. Top New SUV Reviews | Best New SUV - Consumer Reports They rate reliability of Lexus GX (top rated) at 91% and X5 at 20%.


As I said earlier in this post, you need to unlock the CR report and see what they are actually saying:

"I just checked CR. It predicted a bad reliability for the 2020 model BUT when I dug into the scores, it got very good scores on just about everything except it was marked way down on in car electronics. I am not sure what exactly bothered them on that.

High end luxury cars have lots of gadgets to go wrong and often don't do well on first year tests (which is the basis for the prediction for BMW 2020 model). "

Remember also that CR always recommends not buying a new version of a car in the first year of its production. The score that CR gave the X5 is for the first year of production.

But I do agree with what another poster said. If reliability is your guide, buy a Lexus.


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

To Original Poster:

1. Considering amount of software they contain, no new cars are meant to be owned and repaired by owner/tree shade mechanic 20 years from now.

2. If tech is your thing, start leasing. Nothing will make the car outdated as much as tech. There are millions of pictures of cars from the 50's and 60's that look quite a bit better and more desirable than cars from 80's or '90s - or even 2000's. Reason? Most of them do not even have a radio in it and look fabulous.

3. BMWs are probably not any more unreliable than other cars costing as much. The problem is, when the car costs that much and something happens, you WILL hear it.

4. For a worry-free car for decades to come, that is cool, with upgradable tech - look no further than a Tesla Model S. You also have a budget for it.

Good luck!

PS (and OT) : for the classic Camry-bashing crowd ... I had as a rental Camry LE (lowest trim), in refrigerator white (-10 hp) and a rental special (-5 hp) for 4 days locally, where I live. It was two months ago or so. After driving it for two days, I forced my track buddy to get in the passenger seat for a drive without telling him why we are doing this. Well, I took our training road at the mph speeds through corners that I do in my Cayman or GTI - or VERY close, no more than couple mph difference. Yes, I am serious. No, I am not lying. When I saw his jaw drop, I knew I wasn't crazy. Immensely crappy powertrain, but if you drove it as a momentum car, that chassis and suspension setup made both of us drop our jaws. This new ones are NOT your father's or grandfather's Camry, that is for damn sure. Now I just need to find a way to drive one with proper powertrain - V6 and a different transmission. I believe they call them XLE or somesuch. Drive it to believe it.

PS 2: No, I am not Toyota salesman


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Mark K said:


> Considering amount of software they contain, no new cars are meant to be owned and repaired by owner/tree shade mechanic 20 years from now.


I remember reading that....

In 1990.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Jon Shafer said:


> Show me where you read this from a credible source.
> 
> I've been running this forum for 20 years, usually when I see a thread begins, I am not trying to blah, blah, blah, that is exactly the intent.
> 
> The same complaints could be made or said about _any_ car.


What Jon Shafer said.

I own a 2014 535dx which I bought new in 2013 after ordering it and waiting a month and a half for it. The car currently has only 140k miles on it and going strong. I also own a 2012 X5 35d which was a CPO deal at 52k miles in 2014 after the first owner threw a perfectly good car away by trading it in as soon as the factory warranty and free maintenance ended. The first owner probably had money to burn on cars and was afraid of keeping any car past warranty. The X5 35d currently has only 252k miles on it and is still going strong and still has the factory original DPF. Both cars have needed their share of routine maintenance but have been very reliable.

I drive a lot, around 1k miles per week between my 100 mile per day r/t highway commute and having a life outside of work. Being without a car represents a major emergency and whatever I own and drive has to be dependable. I have driven less this year because of working remotely at home due to the Covid stuff. I am the only driver of my cars and split the miles up between them (wife doesn't drive). Both cars have been owned outright from day one (what are car payments?). I can't lease because of the road warrior miles I drive. I have to buy and keep long term and get the most amount of use out of them. "Cheaper to keep her" applies. Both cars are long term keepers (10+ years) and won't be for sale anytime soon. The X5 35d currently is only 5 oil changes away from 300k miles. As for my BMW's dependability, it is still too early to tell.


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## XChallengeRdr (Jul 15, 2020)

n1das said:


> As for my BMW's dependability, it is still too early to tell.


Reminds me of an old Mercedes commercial from my youth. Three is a very old powder blue 4 door Merc crossing the desert being driven by and old man in a cowboy hat. No sound, just dust. Then across the screen they announce the owners name, where he lives and states that the car has over 500k on it. The final tag line was "How far can you go in a Mercedes Benz? We don't know yet."


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Uncle Larry in Cochraneville, PA, drove a VW Rabbit L diesel 500,000 miles before the state refused to again register the rust bucket.


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## PC1978 (Aug 26, 2020)

Mark K said:


> To Original Poster:
> 
> 1. Considering amount of software they contain, no new cars are meant to be owned and repaired by owner/tree shade mechanic 20 years from now.
> 
> ...


I am a bit of a Toyota fan boy.

My wife drives a 14 Avalon XLE, that generation they made the suspension stiffer/sportier to try to attract younger buyers.

It is FWD so it'll never be as "fun" as a RWD or AWD car, but it is no slouch and confidence inspiring to hustle it hard on a curvy road.

Not quite as much confidence or fast through the curves as my sons E90, but it's close.

And the 3.5L V6 is pretty quick, around 270 HP, not "fast" but is quick for a basic full size sedan; and smooth as silk.
I believe it is the same engine Lotus uses in some of their cars, but they put a supercharger on it.
Can cruise at 100+ on the interstate and have rock solid comfortable driving. 
I'd wager you could take it to the governor and it would still be stable and solid, but haven't tried yet. I've only had it to about 115.

As far as the OP.
If you want more modern features and a more dynamic driving experience get the BMW.

If you want an SUV that you can own for 20 years and 200k+ miles with basic maintenance and consumables (and much less likely need for other repairs), get a Lexus LX or GX (depending on how big you want).

I've got an 03 4runner 4.7L with 185k miles and it is bulletproof.
Only fluids, brakes, suspension work, and timing belt (I believe the new V8s have a chain though) done in its lifetime.
And I drive it hard, I'm always putting my foot to the floor when accelerating and drive it fast through the corners (only the most committed drivers try and keep up when I'm in the mood to hustle it on a curvy road, even though it is at an obvious dynamic disadvantage to many performance cars/suvs).
You do have to "work" harder to carry the same speeds as better handling vehicles and of course do reach a point where those cars dynamics can't be overcome for corner speeds, but the AWD system works great to help keep traction and confidence.


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## Robertska99 (Aug 12, 2020)

NJRonbo said:


> Difficult decision to post this very serious question in a BMW enthusiast forum.
> 
> Please...I am not a troll. I am not here to flame the fires.
> 
> ...


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## Robertska99 (Aug 12, 2020)

NJ, BMW's are high performance vehicles. High performance vehicles require more maintenance than a economy car. If your looking for a vehicle to last you a long time with very little maintenance Lexus, or Toyota is more your speed. If you want the brand recognition, high performance vehicle, BMW is a great choice. I'm a ASE Master automobile technician and I drive a 2011 535i xdrive. I've put 4k in parts in it in 6 months. I love to drive it. Its worth it to me. The question is what's worth it to you?


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## Robertska99 (Aug 12, 2020)

NJRonbo said:


> Difficult decision to post this very serious question in a BMW enthusiast forum.
> 
> Please...I am not a troll. I am not here to flame the fires.
> 
> ...


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## bailyhill14 (Feb 24, 2014)

I have been a BMW owner since 1974--and I have owned 10 of them. I have had 2 great dealers in that time--not the lowest cost but the best overall). Always did the maintenance at the dealer. Dependable--well never once was I left by the side of the road in all those years/cars. Most of them I owned for 12-14 years before replacing. Only one big repair--a transmission on a stick shift car--out of warrantee--80% was covered by BMW good will--as it was not my fault, but a faulty bearing retainer. Most of those cars were driven near 100K miles and some over. About half were kept 3 years--36K miles, and I got the itch to upgrade. Half were kept as daily drivers and went the distance. I probably would not keep a BMW for the second 100K miles without expecting high costs. I recently had a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid. Nice vehicle. Short some options not offered. Bailed on the Lease at half way at no cost and bought an X3 30e Hybrid. My favorite car of all time. It may be my last car, at my age (76), don't think I can outlast it. If I do, I will probably get the same thing.


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## Bru1339 (Dec 31, 2014)

NJRonbo said:


> Difficult decision to post this very serious question in a BMW enthusiast forum.
> 
> Please...I am not a troll. I am not here to flame the fires.
> 
> ...


If you would love to buy one, then buy one!!! judge for yourself. Easy solution


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## mindskew (Dec 1, 2019)

I keep saying this is the last fucking BMW that I will own but then buy another. I agree that I spend WAY more on fixing them than any other vehicle I own but they are always more fun to drive than the others.


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