# 335d Blow-Out??



## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

Hello,
I'm wondering when the fire sale of the 335d should start. In NV and CA each dealership seems to have 12+ in their new stock not to mention several (3+) in their service loaner stock. I can already get a good deal off MSRP though USAA's car buying service (i.e. 6k+ off MSRP) but am wondering when the dealerships/BMWNA will start making SERIOUS deals on the existing 335d's. 

All comments/suggestions welcome!


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## David1 (Jan 16, 2007)

By the time you wait for the "deal" they will be gone.


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## petriej (Jul 29, 2010)

All the ones in my area are not well enough equipped for me. I guess I'm too picky.


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

afscotch said:


> Hello,
> I'm wondering when the fire sale of the 335d should start. In NV and CA each dealership seems to have 12+ in their new stock not to mention several (3+) in their service loaner stock. I can already get a good deal off MSRP though USAA's car buying service (i.e. 6k+ off MSRP) but am wondering when the dealerships/BMWNA will start making SERIOUS deals on the existing 335d's.
> 
> All comments/suggestions welcome!


Congrats on the pending 335d..... :thumbup:


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

David1 said:


> By the time you wait for the "deal" they will be gone.


Wonder how I got my M3 sedan then...oh yeah, waiting for a deal and got it.

My local dealer has 23 in stock per their inventory site. Next closest dealer in town has 20; Tucson dealer has 10!

I am thinking the same thing as the OP.


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## Highmodulus (Aug 16, 2011)

My dealer has been very aggressive on trying to sell me on a highly specced one on his lot.

Issues: even with the eco credit these are _very_ expensive 3 series cars.

They are on the discontinued body style, with a motor they are not offering next year. Once the F30 embargo is broken these wont be _more_ valuable- let's put it that way.

They also are not better than the 335(i)s I also drove- which are on average $2-4k cheaper AND you can factory flash them now to 325hp of "is" goodness.

Also an issue for some- they don't sound like a BMW, don't rev like a BMW, the goofy urea tank issues (car will shut itself down w/o it- not cool), fueling issues requiring the BMW tube adapter thingee, and highly questionable resale value. The depreciation may be steeper than a Disney pop star. Down on horsepower for a 335 designated car. No factory flash tune for you. Diesel costs more than premium and likely always will in the US killing much of the advantage in mileage.

Pros- 425 of them. 425 Clarksons on tap. Its insane how much grunt the car has- its a perfect match with the ZF automatic. Closest thing to this car was the Chevy Camero SS I drove. Fantastic high mileage on the highway- great road trip'er.

My dealer came down over $4k from his starting point. And I am still _very _hesitant on this car.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

Highmodulus said:


> Issues: even with the eco credit these are _very_ expensive 3 series cars.
> 
> QUOTE]
> What is the ECO credit at present? TIA
> ...


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## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

TeddyBGame said:


> Congrats on the pending 335d..... :thumbup:


Don't have one yet, but starting to lean in that direction.


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## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

vern said:


> Highmodulus said:
> 
> 
> > Issues: even with the eco credit these are _very_ expensive 3 series cars.
> ...


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## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

Justin T said:


> Wonder how I got my M3 sedan then...oh yeah, waiting for a deal and got it.
> 
> My local dealer has 23 in stock per their inventory site. Next closest dealer in town has 20; Tucson dealer has 10!
> 
> I am thinking the same thing as the OP.


This is what I'm getting at...Vegas has 25 new plus whatever they have in their service loaner stock (at least 2 at the dealer closer to me).

In LA, over 150 new cars are showing up on cars.com.


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## jagu (Nov 7, 2006)

Get a 335i. As someone posted above, they are not as exciting as a 335i and they are more expensive. FOr the price of a lowly specced 335d, you can get a loaded msport 335i.

I was going to get a 335d but they were always more expensive than the 335i and I didn't think I'd ever save as much in gas over the time of my ownership.


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## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

Doesn't the 335i take premium gas? Diesel is more than premium, at least by me, so there is a savings every time I fill up. The underlying assumption, and the reason for posting the thread, is that the 335d's price should be dropping with the excess inventory around. Prices the same, for the same options, I'm leaning towards the d at this point. 

Thanks for all the thoughts/comments up to this point!


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## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

Test drove both the 335d and 535i today. I can say the 335d was a more responsive and fun drive but the car just isn't big enough for a new family. I can't wait until they put an engine like that into the 5 series!!

Sent from my ADR6350 using Bimmer


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## afscotch (Aug 28, 2011)

Test drove both the 335d and 535i today. I can say the 335d was a more responsive and fun drive but the car just isn't big enough for a new family. I can't wait until they put an engine like that into the 5 series!!

Sent from my ADR6350 using Bimmer 
Sent from my ADR6350 using Bimmer


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Lots of misinformation here.

Regarding the price of the vehicle, net of the Eco Credit, the 335d and 335i are about the same cost (with same options). And if there are more available now, you should be able to get a better deal on the diesel.

Regarding the price of fuel, diesel is currently higher than premium by about 25 cents/gal. This is very rare. It has also been cheaper than regular unleaded at times. On balance, diesel is usually about the same cost as premium unleaded. The cost of fuel itself should not be a factor in your decision, but you should consider the significantly better fuel economy of the diesel.

It comes down to what type of engine you prefer - tons of torque in the diesel, or a high-revving gas engine. Nothing wrong with either.

For an everyday driver, I prefer the diesel and I enjoy about 30% better fuel economy.

To the OP's question, I don't know if I'd buy one now since it will be discontinued in a few months, but you could probably do a nice lease deal on one and see if they come out with an F30 diesel in a few years.


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## Highmodulus (Aug 16, 2011)

Misinformation yes- but the source of it. . .

1. Diesel has been more than premium for quite a while now and that likely will not change based on the underlying economic factors. Its not "rare"- _it is the status quo in the US_.

2. I am actively shopping the 335i's and d's and the d's are still a bit more pricey- even with the eco credit. The credit does help narrow the gap alot. The reason to buy a 335d is not economics (doesn't work out due to the fuel cost gap and likely much higher depreciation/resale issues on the discontinued 335d engine) but a love of diesels in general and the muscle car levels of torque in a sleeper package. The 335d is a niche vehicle in the US- buy it if you are in that niche. From a long term numbers standpoint, the 335(i) makes more sense.

The OP's point was that you would expect to see _bigger_ deals on them given the discontinued body and engine, low demand (the niche thing again) and rather abundant supply of them. My guess is dealers will be increasingly aggressive in pricing- especially in December.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Highmodulus said:


> Misinformation yes- but the source of it. . .
> 
> 1. Diesel has been more than premium for quite a while now and that likely will not change based on the underlying economic factors. Its not "rare"- _it is the status quo in the US_.


Still false. Check out the facts....

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_m.htm

Since the introduction of the requirement for Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel in Feb 2007, diesel has averaged 5 cents per gallon more than conventional premium gasoline and 5 cents LESS than reformulated premium gas.

The difference in fuel prices (per gallon) is not a factor with these vehicles (i vs. d).


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

BMW eco credit use to be $4500, couple that with the previous $900 above the line federal tax credit, the $6k+ of MSRP, and the price of diesel v. premium gas and improved fuel economy, the 335d use to be a great deal; however, without the incentive to offset, the 335d has not become economically attractive. Diesel in our location is between mid and premium, and when gas has increased in price, diesel kept relatively steady dropping even below regular gas price. I think BMW is sort of inadvertently pricing the d out of market, especially with the 335is and soon to be appearing activehybrids. 

@Highmodulus: you are assuming that gas will be cheaper than diesel, which for the past 2 years hasn't necessarily been the case (diesel being nearly the same cost or cheaper), and with much better fuel economy (especially depending how you drive). when economy bounces back, premium gas will invariably be higher than diesel again by a significant margin. just because something discontinued doesn't necessarily mean it will be a higher depreciator, especially since diesel engines in general tend to last longer. from my long term numbers standpoint, and the reason I bought the d, the d made much more economic sense than the "i". However, with reduction in BMW eco credit and the elimination of the federal tax credit, it's hard to justify the d.


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## Highmodulus (Aug 16, 2011)

TXPearl said:


> Still false. Check out the facts....
> 
> http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_m.htm
> 
> ...


Hasn't tracked what I saw here in Va.

A $.30 per gallon delta which I have seen for quite a while.

http://www.motortrend.com/gas_prices/33/virginia/albemarle/charlottesville/

$.30 per gallon does make a factor in my book if you are buying this for "savings".


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## Highmodulus (Aug 16, 2011)

imtjm said:


> BMW eco credit use to be $4500, couple that with the previous $900 above the line federal tax credit, the $6k+ of MSRP, and the price of diesel v. premium gas and improved fuel economy, the 335d use to be a great deal; however, without the incentive to offset, the 335d has not become economically attractive. Diesel in our location is between mid and premium, and when gas has increased in price, diesel kept relatively steady dropping even below regular gas price. I think BMW is sort of inadvertently pricing the d out of market, especially with the 335is and soon to be appearing activehybrids.
> 
> @Highmodulus: you are assuming that gas will be cheaper than diesel, which for the past 2 years hasn't necessarily been the case (diesel being nearly the same cost or cheaper), and with much better fuel economy (especially depending how you drive). when economy bounces back, premium gas will invariably be higher than diesel again by a significant margin. just because something discontinued doesn't necessarily mean it will be a higher depreciator, especially since diesel engines in general tend to last longer. from my long term numbers standpoint, and the reason I bought the d, the d made much more economic sense than the "i". However, with reduction in BMW eco credit and the elimination of the federal tax credit, it's hard to justify the d.


True- my assumption based on local prices here (see above). There is no inevitability that diesel will return to equal premium, nevermind be cheaper than it. Also there is no evidence the 335d engine has any long term reliability advantage, in fact the newness of the DEF system make this an ongoing experiment this isn't your dad's pickup truck diesel engine.

Additionally, diesel cars being a niche item and having the unfortunate double of a discontinued body style/discontinued engine on top of that mean resale is likely to be much trickier than a 335(i).

I agree that the loss of the tax credit and the reduction of the eco credit made these a much harder sale which is probably reflected in the inventories remaining high. Hence the OP's question.

Also, I think the BMW performance package for the 335i's also makes them quite attractive as well. That engine continuing on means plenty of ongoing mod/part support too.

That said- I _like_ the 335d. I nearly bought a M-sport 335d- heck I still might if the dealer blinks another $2k. But I think BMW needs to be aggressive on year end pricing and incentives to compete with their own 2012's not to mention Audi undercutting them on price and features in the A4s and A5s.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

One thing to consider is there will be few indy shops that can service the new diesel, so after the warranty you are stuck with the dealer for any repair and service, which means high cost.

Lease would be a preferred option, but then the 335d has poor residual. I agree BMW needs to be more aggressive.


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## petriej (Jul 29, 2010)

dtc100 said:


> One thing to consider is there will be few indy shops that can service the new diesel, so after the warranty you are stuck with the dealer for any repair and service, which means high cost.
> 
> Lease would be a preferred option, but then the 335d has poor residual. I agree BMW needs to be more aggressive.


But any independent tractor shop would be glad to service it :rofl:

In all seriousness, this debate has been done to death. I'd rather get 40+MPG at gasoline+$0.50 per gallon than 30+MPG at gasoline prices.

And who among BMW buyers are SOLELY concerned with the costs? Really?


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

petriej said:


> In all seriousness, this debate has been done to death. I'd rather get 40+MPG at gasoline+$0.50 per gallon than 30+MPG at gasoline prices.


I would like to know how you plan to get 40+ mpg in a 335d...

I got 30.9mpg at avg 77mph speed over 200+ dead flat miles with no stopping. You would have to be going 50mph for 500 miles without stopping to do better than that.


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## petriej (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, as much as I enjoy speeding^W^W^W^W^W^W not all of us can average 77 mph. If you slow it down and perform some general hypermile-ing techniques, you should be able to squeeze out some impressive numbers. My numbers weren't meant to be exact, but simply to portray a trend.


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## Highmodulus (Aug 16, 2011)

Yeah, but those work for the 335(i) too.

To go to an earlier point- don't buy a 335(d) for savings or economics over a 335(i) because they may/probably don't exist at this point. Buy it because you like it more.


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

lilskel said:


> I would like to know how you plan to get 40+ mpg in a 335d...
> 
> I got 30.9mpg at avg 77mph speed over 200+ dead flat miles with no stopping. You would have to be going 50mph for 500 miles without stopping to do better than that.


I get about 25 mpg in my wife's 135 in the same situation so how would a 335 sedan be better than that? Still a 6 mpg gain which ain't too shabby; almost 100 miles more in a tank. Most of the highway driving I would do would be at an average less than 77, so I would expect 34ish from the d.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Don't rely on anecdotes about mileage or fuel prices (e.g. Highmodulus's outlier neighborhood for expensive diesel). For fuel costs, compare prices in the links I provided earlier. For mileage, compare EPA figures.

The bottom line: fuel cost is about the same and the diesel gets about 30% better mileage. The rest is up to the customer (vehicle price, personal preference).


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

Yeah I suppose 77mph avg was pretty fast since to balance out every 67mph I had to go 87mph...this had some runs up to 100-110mph. 

I don't think you could do much better than 34-35mpg on the highway at 65-70mph.

Still I expect this is at least 20% better than a 335, so that definitely adds up. Oh and the 335d is awesome, it just sounds/feels a little odd at low parking lot speeds. 

145mph in an oil burner was pretty insane.


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## flaggrad00 (Jun 21, 2011)

Highmodulus said:


> Yeah, but those work for the 335(i) too.
> 
> To go to an earlier point- don't buy a 335(d) for savings or economics over a 335(i) because they may/probably don't exist at this point. Buy it because you like it more.


Seriously, but which ever one you like more. I made the mistake of getting a g37 instead of a 335i beacuse it was a better deal, guess what 18 months later i went and got a 335i which i should have done in the first place because i liked it better, the $40 a month was not worth it. The marginal cost difference between the diesel and gas engine should not be a factor in your decision.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

30.9 mpg? That's not so promising. My 07 530i averages around 29-30 under like conditions.



lilskel said:


> I would like to know how you plan to get 40+ mpg in a 335d...
> 
> I got 30.9mpg at avg 77mph speed over 200+ dead flat miles with no stopping. You would have to be going 50mph for 500 miles without stopping to do better than that.


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## Highmodulus (Aug 16, 2011)

Check out his clarification post after that one. 33-36 w/o a lead foot seems do-able in a 335(d)- maybe more if you go all Jeremy Clarkson Top Gear mileage run style.


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## gulfcoastbeemer (Feb 17, 2013)

I must be living a charmed life. I'm consistently averaging between 36 and 39 mpg with a varying mix of city (stop & go) and highway (75+ mph) driving. 

Experience with all of the various diesels I have owned over the years has taught me to pay attention to fuel quality -- crappy fuel quality (lower cetane) equals lower mpg; better fuel quality (higher cetane) equals higher mpg.

Also, make sure your tires are properly inflated. I have found that my dealer consistently under inflates the tires for some unknown reason.

Mileage aside: I love the crazy torque and quiet cabin at highway speed which is a product of lower engine rev. The British show Fifth Gear did a test and found the 335d to be 4db quieter than the 335i at highway speed.

Sadly, most Americans still equate diesel with slow, smokey and noisy. Europeans are move enlightened, with roughly a equal mix of diesel and gas passenger vehicles. The ever shifting political / environmental landscape here has done more to hobble diesel sales in the U.S. than any other single factor.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Highmodulus said:


> Yeah, but those work for the 335(i) too.
> 
> To go to an earlier point- don't buy a 335(d) for savings or economics over a 335(i) because they may/probably don't exist at this point. Buy it because you like it more.


Absolutely. I bought one in March 2011 when the ecocredit was $4500. Car stickered for just over $52k, paid $43K. I drove it for almost 2 years put almost 40K miles on it. I averaged 30+ mpg commuting to and from work. I got close to 38 mpg on highway trips. That said, I traded it on an Audi A4, with a sport package and 6MT. I found the 335d a bit boring other than the gobs of torque. I missed a manual tranny and the rev of gas engine. The cost of diesel was a factor, but it was a factor.


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## iamwiz82 (Mar 26, 2008)

rmorin49 said:


> Absolutely. I bought one in March 2011 when the ecocredit was $4500. Car stickered for just over $52k, paid $43K. I drove it for almost 2 years put almost 40K miles on it. I averaged 30+ mpg commuting to and from work. I got close to 38 mpg on highway trips. That said, I traded it on an Audi A4, with a sport package and 6MT. I found the 335d a bit boring other than the gobs of torque. I missed a manual tranny and the rev of gas engine. The cost of diesel was a factor, but it was a factor.


I love my 335d. It gets more seat time than my MCS JCW if I can help it :rofl:. Test drove a 328i on Saturday and afterwards my girlfriend and I both agreed that the buzziness of the 2.0 was no fun compared to the d.


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## kmorgan_260 (Jul 9, 2010)

petriej said:


> All the ones in my area are not well enough equipped for me. I guess I'm too picky.


The only one I saw had every option. The SA told me that they all came loaded since they were considered a "premium" version of the 335. I was also told they all come with auto tranny. Guess that is not necessarily true :dunno:


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## DeltaAir (May 19, 2004)

I'm trying to find one now. Seems like a lot of dealers could not sell them near the end and put them into their loaner or executive car inventory. The ones that do exist have strange options or are black or have no sport / m-sport package.

Crazy that there Are still new 2011 models out there.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

kmorgan_260 said:


> The only one I saw had every option. The SA told me that they all came loaded since they were considered a "premium" version of the 335. I was also told they all come with auto tranny. Guess that is not necessarily true :dunno:


They "come" with whatever the dealer orders them with!!!!

To a low level salesman, he just seems them sitting on the lot and has to sell them- he may not distinguish "how" the cars come to arrive configured the way they do, be it "from BMW' or "from his management"

(and CA is client advisor, SA is Service advisor)


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