# New Winter Tires Rental Program



## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

bmwloverinsocal said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1) Around what time of the year does it generally start snowing in Germany (munich and surroindings)?
> 
> 2) How do these rental program prices compare to the BMW prices of the same program last year?


It's difficult to say when the first snow falls in the Munich area, there's no definitive answer. Whether there's snow in October, November or December is anybody's guess. January, February and March usually do have quite Wintry conditions, although not too many of the kind of heavy falls of snow that were seen in March, 2006 (see the photos of that at http://www.wetteronline.de/feature/2006/03/05_ws.htm). A lot of heavy, wet snow is also often dumped in April.

Of course, as you drive South into the alpine regions of Southern Bavaria and into Austria, the likelyhood of snow between October and April increases many-fold. Winter tires are not, however, only for snowy conditions! They greatly assist driving more safely in wintry conditions that could just be sub-zero (Centigrade) but without actual snow falling.

Last year's BMW prices can be seen at http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180999&highlight=winter+tires. The pricing structure is different this time around but for the most part are probably around half of those rates!


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## XFOS (Jun 24, 2006)

Hello, I am picking up a 2008 X3, December 4th and going down all the way to Rome to drop off Dec 12. How will the factory fitted tires and 4 wheel traction work for Dec weather ?. I live in FL and have no yearly experience on snow driving. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

XFOS said:


> Hello, I am picking up a 2008 X3, December 4th and going down all the way to Rome to drop off Dec 12. How will the factory fitted tires and 4 wheel traction work for Dec weather ?. I live in FL and have no yearly experience on snow driving.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


I pick up my Cabrio on 17th of December, I seriously considering renting the winter tires for my trip to Holland but maybe when we get closer I will see if the weather demands it...:thumbup:


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## gesoffen (Jun 18, 2004)

XFOS said:


> Hello, I am picking up a 2008 X3, December 4th and going down all the way to Rome to drop off Dec 12. How will the factory fitted tires and 4 wheel traction work for Dec weather ?. I live in FL and have no yearly experience on snow driving.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


Winter tires would still be the optimum choice for typical December temperatures and the chance of wintery weather (remember, they're called winter tires now and are beneficial in cold climates with or without snow). Obviously, the Rome drop off would be an issue unless the drop off driver can do the wheel/tire exchange for you.

That said, as long as your plans are flexible you should be fine. If, upon pick up, old man winter is giving Munich and southern Germany a good dusting, park the car and explore Munich for a day or two until the weather lets up.

Regarding the legalities, it is illegal now to drive a non M&S rated tire during winter weather conditions. In addition to it being illegal, your insurance may deny coverage in the event an accident occurred and you were driving on summer tires.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

XFOS said:


> Hello, I am picking up a 2008 X3, December 4th and going down all the way to Rome to drop off Dec 12. How will the factory fitted tires and 4 wheel traction work for Dec weather ?. I live in FL and have no yearly experience on snow driving.
> 
> Thanks for the advice.


One-way winter tire & wheel rentals are not usually possible but, as I understand it, cars dropped off in Rome are driven back to Harms in Garching - in which case it would be ok provided that the delivery driver calls in at the tire depot (also in Garching and just one street before Harms) to return them and have your original wheels and tires re-mounted. The rental period would of course run till the date the tires are returned!


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I would imagine Harms will charge an extra fee for this.


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## DXK (Jun 1, 2007)

I've submitted the request for end of December. Planning to drive to Austria and Czech Republic.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

DXK said:


> I've submitted the request for end of December. Planning to drive to Austria and Czech Republic.


Request not as yet received! - e-mail to me please at [email protected]


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## DXK (Jun 1, 2007)

john lance said:


> Request not as yet received! - e-mail to me please at [email protected]


I used the website, but it's only been a few minutes, maybe you will receive it later.
I'll email you tomorrow as well.
Thanks


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Request received, thank you. An e-mail follow-up to a submitted request is always appreciated as sometimes the form does not arrive as it should! Thank You.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

DUE TO A SERVER PROBLEM, IT APPERS THAT NOT ALL ON-LINE RESERVATIONS HAVE BEEN RECEIVED. IF YOU HAVE MADE A RESERVATION BUT HAVE NOT YET RECEIVED A CONFIRMATION, PLEASE RE-SUBMIT USING THE FORM AT http://www.edwintertires.com/reserve.htm
Please follow up reservations with an e-mail to [email protected] with a copy to [email protected]
Thank You!


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## Fuenfer (Apr 24, 2004)

JSpira said:


> Not possible and won't happen.


What happens if you leave snow tires on the car and drop it off at Harms? Will BMW charge you extra for putting a new set of summer tires on the car? Or will Harms immediately notice the non-summer tires and refuse to accept the vehicle?


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## SignHere (Apr 26, 2006)

Wow! I just got off the phone with ED in New Jersey and they won't even recommend snow chains due to the contingent liability. They suggested going to Bimmerfest and looking up Winter Tire Rental. ;-)

Kind of a drag since I've given a dozen or so customers information about the snow chain rental program that isn't even in existence any more.

How much time does this typically take out of their valuable vacation for traveling to and from the facility plus mounting? I guess the tires are pre-balanced so it should move very quickly, yes?


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## borisivan (Aug 2, 2007)

SignHere said:


> Wow! I just got off the phone with ED in New Jersey and they won't even recommend snow chains due to the contingent liability. They suggested going to Bimmerfest and looking up Winter Tire Rental. ;-)


Really? John Lance, you're getting famous!!!!!


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

SignHere said:


> Wow! I just got off the phone with ED in New Jersey and they won't even recommend snow chains due to the contingent liability. They suggested going to Bimmerfest and looking up Winter Tire Rental. ;-)
> 
> Kind of a drag since I've given a dozen or so customers information about the snow chain rental program that isn't even in existence any more.
> 
> How much time does this typically take out of their valuable vacation for traveling to and from the facility plus mounting? I guess the tires are pre-balanced so it should move very quickly, yes?


Treat the drive to Garching as a practice-run for when you return your car to Harms for shipping! It's probably not out of the way for many prople as it's just off the Nurnberg-Salzburg Autobahn. At the tire depot, I am expecting a 20-30 minute turnaround, but I will see for myself - the first one is on Monday!


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## jschim (Nov 10, 2006)

Is it possible to do the drop off elsewhere? I am scheduled to take ED on Nov 13, and drop off in Nice on Nov 19yj


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

jschim said:


> Is it possible to do the drop off elsewhere? I am scheduled to take ED on Nov 13, and drop off in Nice on Nov 19yj


Not really possible - unless you take your original wheels & tires with you to Nice and then send back the rented equipment to Munich. That would probably be inconvenient & expensive.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

john lance said:


> At the tire depot, I am expecting a 20-30 minute turnaround, but I will see for myself - the first one is on Monday!


Well, it was actually 35 minutes! Still, not too bad considering the place was packed all day with the locals getting their tires on quickly before the expected wintry conditions.

Hey, it's been nearly 24 hours since you picked up that beautiful car, Michael, surely you know the rules of this Forum !!!


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## Rugged Racer (Apr 22, 2007)

i read on a thread that there might be a price change in the rental program... is this so?


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Rugged Racer said:


> i read on a thread that there might be a price change in the rental program... is this so?


Possibly - but, if so, then downward! The program has got off to a good start and I will be able to see if a reduction is price is possible once the first 10 or so customers have returned their wheels & tires. Much depends on how many miles are driven.

Anyone reserving now for December 1st onward need not 'wait and see' because they will be given any eventual reduction in price too.


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## Kurt_OH (May 3, 2008)

What was the weather in {CITY} on {DATE} ?

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

Above is for Munich, November 1st, 2010. But clearly you can choose the location and date to suit your itinerary.

If there's no frozen precipitation, you have summer tires, and the temp is >= freezing, you'll most likely be able to travel, carefully, without significant problem. If it gets colder, it'll get dicier. If there's ANY frozen precip, then you're gonna be slip-sliding away, and not just a little. Dangerous and illegal.

Don't believe the drama queens with their stories of performance tires magically transforming from super glue to oiled Teflon simply due to cold, dry pavement. If you're a competent driver, there's little or no difference between performance summer tires and the skinny, no-traction-to-begin-with winter tires on dry pavement around freezing or higher. You won't have SUMMER levels of traction. But you'll still have the same crummy traction you'd have on a dry road using winter tires.

The issue is, if it's near freezing, then how do you know the road is really "dry"? Did fog/dew freeze on it? What if frozen precip falls while you're out? You're definitely taking a chance even if the weather / conditions are passable when you embark.


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## zinp (Sep 10, 2011)

*Winter tires mandatory according new law?*

My question was if this is true, how can one drive from the Welt to tire depot? Indeed if the road conditions is dry & above freezing, do I have option NOT renting the winter tires--even at my own risks (incl. 40euros fine)?

thanks of those in the know to clarify.

jim


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

To answer the above question, if you rent Winter tires at www.edwintertires.com they can be fitted onto your car at BMW Welt prior to when you take delivery. So, driving to the depot is not a necessity, although is 90 Eur cheaper.


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## zinp (Sep 10, 2011)

thanks for the tip. one question not answered: is it mandatory to rent winter tires, in winter ED cars are on M&S, can I just drive without the bother? thanks for enlightening me.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

zinp said:


> thanks for the tip. one question not answered: is it mandatory to rent winter tires, in winter ED cars are on M&S, can I just drive without the bother? thanks for enlightening me.


As they're new and have the required minimum tread, yes you can. At your own risk though, no self-respecting Bavarian or Austrian would use them in Winter-time, all swopping over to Winter tires for additional safety. No problem though for you if the conditions are good for the duration of your ED.


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## zinp (Sep 10, 2011)

*Ed*

thanks, this finally answered my questions. Since I just do a little driving (2 days), if weather permits will drive around if not, then head to winter tires depot (of course 1 week forecast)


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## Kurt_OH (May 3, 2008)

I plan to "Roll the dice" for my November 7th delivery. 

Either conditions will be sufficient to drive my M3 w/competition pkg on the tires it comes with, or I'll leave it at the Welt. Looking at historical data, it would be rare to experience daytime sub-freezing temps or snow in the first 10 days of November in Munich or anywhere along my tentative route: Munich -> Frankfurt -> Nurburg -> Luxembourg -> Reims -> Paris. I may have to wait a couple hours until the day warms up to get going, but even a dusting of snow overnight shouldn't seriously harm my progress since it'll likely evaporate/melt before I have to get underway.

Like zinp, if it looks bad a week out, I may make snow tire reservations. My hesitation has less to do with money/hassle, than completely screwing up my itinerary, since I'd like to drop off in Paris, after a lap of the 'ring and a stop at a couple Champagne houses.


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## ViperSSD (Jul 16, 2005)

How are you supposed to retighten the lug nuts? Do you provide a tire iron? I dont think the car comes with one...


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

ViperSSD said:


> How are you supposed to retighten the lug nuts? Do you provide a tire iron? I dont think the car comes with one...


That instruction is a legal disclaimer provided by the tire depot. In practice nobody does that, I certainly never have nor do I know anyone who does, and the tire depot tell me it is not necessary but their insurance company requires them to put it into their paperwork. More 21st century beaurocratic nonsense causing confusion in our lives!


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

Hi John

We are picking up our 2012 750i on 11/29 and will remain in fairly low terrain (Garmisch P is as far South as we will go). This is ED #10 for me and I've made it around okay in November in December in past years - but that was luck. I'll watch the weather, but in the event we'll need winter tires do you have the correct fitment available for this big boat?

Thanks!

Dick


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Yes, we currently have the necessary wheels & Winter tires available for your 750i from 29 November.


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## bruza (Sep 3, 2010)

I'm picking my M3 Sedan up November 21 and haven't reserved winter tires yet. 

Is it necessary to have them mounted prior to my taking delivery? Seems like a lot of people drive on their summer tires the short distance to EDWINTERTIRES. 

Any thoughts?


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## vincesfo (Mar 16, 2005)

John,

Anything available for my 550ix GT yet? Please let me know! My ED is 11/17.


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## X550-ED (Aug 27, 2005)

john lance said:


> Yes, we currently have the necessary wheels & Winter tires available for your 750i from 29 November.


Hi John, I ordered 535i tires for 11/23-11/28, i need to setup paypal payment today. What do the rims look like? Thanks for the great service!


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## Kurt_OH (May 3, 2008)

Kurt_OH said:


> I plan to "Roll the dice" for my November 7th delivery.
> 
> Either conditions will be sufficient to drive my M3 w/competition pkg on the tires it comes with, or I'll leave it at the Welt. Looking at historical data, it would be rare to experience daytime sub-freezing temps or snow in the first 10 days of November in Munich or anywhere along my tentative route: Munich -> Frankfurt -> Nurburg -> Luxembourg -> Reims -> Paris. I may have to wait a couple hours until the day warms up to get going, but even a dusting of snow overnight shouldn't seriously harm my progress since it'll likely evaporate/melt before I have to get underway.
> 
> Like zinp, if it looks bad a week out, I may make snow tire reservations. My hesitation has less to do with money/hassle, than completely screwing up my itinerary, since I'd like to drop off in Paris, after a lap of the 'ring and a stop at a couple Champagne houses.


Well, I did it, on summer tires, with no problem. BUT, I got VERY lucky. I met a friend at the Nurburgring, and he stayed for several days after I left. He NEVER got on the track again, due to cold/frost/fog.

This tire rental service is great. I'd definitely arrange it if I was headed out for a trip this time of the year, again.


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## Mikla (Nov 20, 2011)

I have just rented winter tires for the week from 2/20/12 through 2/24/12. I also added the fee for having ED Winter Tires put the winter tires on at the Welt, and for the car to be picked at my hotel to change the tires and be delivered for transport. Does that mean that the car will be dropped off at LOGINOUT, or dropped off back at my hotel for me to drive to LOGINOUT the day before we leave? Also, do I need to make a reservation at LOGINOUT whether I drop the car off or whether John Lance's company drops the car off?

Mikla


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## VMcV3y (Jul 6, 2011)

I returned to the ED Winter shop a couple of hours earlier than my appointment, at 1:00 pm on Tuesday the 24th of January 2012. It took them all of about ten minutes to switch out their wheels and put my brand new Michelin Pilot Sport tires on the M3 Cab. Super fast, quite efficient. Having these tires on the car was great as we drove a few times in 2-inch snow and quite a bit of slush.

It was well worth the rental cost in peace of mind.


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## 640GC (Mar 22, 2012)

When are Winter tires needed? I know, in the winter! Date range?


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## gesoffen (Jun 18, 2004)

The legal mandate does not give a specific time, rather it requires winter tires in winter conditions (snow, sleet, slush, etc.). The general rule of thumb is October through April, winter tires are recommended. Depending on where you are going, this rule of thumb can vary (e.g., if you're heading to the Mediterranean coasts, you probably won't need them at all, if you're heading to the Alps, you might need them as late as June or as early as September.

If you stay flexible and can vary your itinerary or mode of travel depending on current weather conditions, you can avoid winter tires by picking days/locations with favorable weather conditions in which to drive. But in the end, the price of winter shoes is well worth the piece of mind.


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## trencher (Aug 27, 2012)

Ok so there is no hard law on winter tires and dates in Germany? I was going to pick up my car Oct 10th and dealership thought 15th was the date I would need to put them on, but I plan on avoiding winter conditions if I can help it.


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## VMcV3y (Jul 6, 2011)

trencher said:


> Ok so there is no hard law on winter tires and dates in Germany? I was going to pick up my car Oct 10th and dealership thought 15th was the date I would need to put them on, but I plan on avoiding winter conditions if I can help it.


There is a distinct law on this. Though there are different pieces of information you can find about a specific date. In this case, since you're getting the vehicle from BMW, it's best to heed their published information.

In the "Travel Updates for 2011" brochure, that was sent to me for my January 2012 ED, it reads: "Winter Tires - As of the end of 2010, Germany requires that all vehicles must have winter tires or all-season tires (M&S tires) during inclement weather from October 15 - April 15. Please keep this information in mind if you have ordered a vehicle with Performance tires. ....(more)"

I have several German-born, German-residing friends, and they all-to-a-man reminded me of the law prior to my arrival. It seems that the natives (public) is very aware of this as well.

I rented winter tires. From reading postings here, plenty of people do not rent them. It's your choice, of course, as you assume the liability and risks based on your personal situation.

When I arrived at the BMW Welt, I had to sign a document that indicated I understood the law, and that I would assume the liability should I be in a collision and it was found that I did not have winter tires. (I took a quick glance for this document to scan and attach, but those files are off-site right now.)

What I am not clear on, is the *enforceable* approach on the law....it seems that if one was stopped for a traffic violation by the Polizei on, say, the 20th of October, without winter tires, that you would not be charged with an offense. But that if you were in a vehicle collision, whether you are at-fault or not at-fault, you would be cited for not having winter tires. Again, there's some murkiness about this, in regards to stories by internet postings, and urban legends.

I think the amount of money I paid for winter tires was a bit high, but it was more like an insurance policy. As it was, it was only the first three days of the eight-day trip that I ran into snow and ice; the remaining five days were all about above-freezing rain. The tires were splendid, and never during all the high-speed (avg 90 mph) rain-driving did I feel the car hydroplane. That money spent on the winter tire rental is pretty much gone and forgotten -- and the car is in perfect condition. Insurance policy....

Have fun! It's going to be a blast.

.

http://www.garmisch.army.mil/info/Safety/Winter Tire Safety Information.pdf

http://www.german-way.com/ice-snow-tires.html


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## trencher (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for the reply. I guess my question then is how's the weather normally between Oct 15th -20th in Germany? I plan on hitting Italy for a few days so feel like winter tires might not be worth it. But if conditions are bad there's no way I will risk it. Also since we're both in Texas, how long did it take to get your car back?


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## VMcV3y (Jul 6, 2011)

trencher said:


> Thanks for the reply. I guess my question then is how's the weather normally between Oct 15th -20th in Germany? I plan on hitting Italy for a few days so feel like winter tires might not be worth it. But if conditions are bad there's no way I will risk it. Also since we're both in Texas, how long did it take to get your car back?


Unfortunately, it is difficult to forecast weather conditions... Consider looking at weather websites around the 1st of October and see what is happening. If it's getting rainy and temperatures are dropping to the 40's already, then I'd rent the tires. If it's 80 degrees and sunny, then you have less risk. And then take a look at the websites again around the 10th of October. If you see the weather turning poor, contact the ED Winter Tires and get a reservation. (Do not rely on US-based Accuweather, or etc. Use Germany-based websites...use it via Google Chrome and you can translate. For example: http://www.wetteronline.de/ or http://www.wetter.de/)

Timing:
- Dropped it off at Munich's LogIn-Out on 23 January 2012.
- It sat at LogIn-Out (alone, in the snow) until the afternoon of the 30th of January 2012. Then loaded into a truck.
- It arrived in Brunswick, GA, on 24 February.
- Re-delivery at BMW Performance Delivery Centre in Spartanburg on the 16th of March.

It would have gotten to me earlier if I had a dealership delivery, of course, but I wanted the opportunity to do the PCD experience, drive the Tail of the Dragon, and visit Adrian at the dealership in Atlanta.

Edit 31 August 2012:
Interestingly enough, an inside-the-car window sticker just fell down last night and I noticed it for the first time. It reads "Mit diesen Winterreifen max. 240 km/h Lhr BMW Service Partner." Or, roughly, "on these *winter tires*, maximum speed is 149 mph, from your BMW Service Partner." That's good to know, because my max was 130 mph! (picture attached)

.


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## 261666 (Dec 19, 2011)

*No Response yet from Rental Tire Place*

This will be my first ED in December. I'll be picking up a Z4 on the afternoon of 12/12/12. Over a month ago, I went to the winter tire rental web page & sent in a reservation to rent the winter tires, but I never got a reply. Since then, I've seen John Lance's postings on here and sent him a private message on Bimmerfest asking about my reservation's status. I didn't get a reply. Then I sent the same request to the listed contact email for the company and still haven't gotten any response. My question for you is this the way they do things or am I missing something? The phone numbers on their web page say to use them only after arriving in Munich. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## VMcV3y (Jul 6, 2011)

Crosthwait said:


> This will be my first ED in December. I'll be picking up a Z4 on the afternoon of 12/12/12. Over a month ago, I went to the winter tire rental web page & sent in a reservation to rent the winter tires, but I never got a reply. Since then, I've seen John Lance's postings on here and sent him a private message on Bimmerfest asking about my reservation's status. I didn't get a reply. Then I sent the same request to the listed contact email for the company and still haven't gotten any response. My question for you is this the way they do things or am I missing something? The phone numbers on their web page say to use them only after arriving in Munich. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


Nope, something isn't working right... They were _highly_ responsive when I contacted them. It could be your e-mail isn't receiving...or sun spots.

Don't wait -- just call them (early in the morning from the USA) at +49 (0) 1736-927232. I spoke with Annette (she speaks perfect English).

.


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## AggieKnight (Dec 26, 2008)

I just reserved my tires for "end of November" and immediately received an email saying that they were processing my request.

Crosthwait, did you at least receive that?

If not, I would suggest a typo in your reservation.


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## Gluhwein (Aug 21, 2011)

Annette is absolutely amazing. Any chance I get I'll sing her praises. She went way beyond the call of duty to help my family and I out last February. Something must be wrong with the email system because John and Annette seemed to be answering my frantic 24 hours a day when I encountered a problem. I'd bet by now they've already read this thread and have gotten in touch.


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## 261666 (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the replies, I'll try contacting them again.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Haven't logged on here for a while, so didn't see this thread or the PM. Bud's reservation for Winter tires for his Z4 was received by me on 9.28 and processed and confirmed that day.


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## SANguru (Jun 14, 2009)

John - how long does it take to install the tires if it's brought to the welt and who does the install?


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

SANguru said:


> John - how long does it take to install the tires if it's brought to the welt and who does the install?


We take the wheel & tire set to BMW Welt the day before or the early morning of the day you are taking delivery of your vehicle. They are mounted by BMW technicians and will already be on your car by the time you arrive, so there is no waiting around at all and it does not affect your scheduled delivery time. Nearly all our tire sets are now BMW originals, so visually your car will look exactly the same.


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## SANguru (Jun 14, 2009)

john lance said:


> We take the wheel & tire set to BMW Welt the day before or the early morning of the day you are taking delivery of your vehicle. They are mounted by BMW technicians and will already be on your car by the time you arrive, so there is no waiting around at all and it does not affect your scheduled delivery time. Nearly all our tire sets are now BMW originals, so visually your car will look exactly the same.


awesome John! thank you


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## Jackson743 (Sep 1, 2012)

I recently put down my deposit for ED (still working on a date) but I'm thinking it's going to be December. I just checked the winter tire rental rates for the above company. I was taken back.

This is really expensive. 10 days and 1000 miles for a new 335i M-Sport is over $500. You can rent a car for less and these are just wheels and tires. Am I missing something? Is this just a manner of BMW customers have other options or is there some big value added service (or a bit of both)?


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Yes, it's really expensive, of that there's no doubt. Unfortunately, the main reason is that once again this year, BMW have changed the specifications on nearly all the models and what fitted the cars last year, doesn't fit this year - so i get left with a whole load of wheels & tires that are of no use!

For example, I have a 6-series set, used only for 5 days, which cost 3,000 Euros, which just cannot be used any more. I have 3 3-series sets, 3 5-series sets and so on, none of which fit any 2013 BMWs! 

That's the main reason - others are the cost of each set (usually 2,000 - 3,000 Euros), the fitting, strage and mounting/re-mounting costs, as well as paying for everything to be co-ordinated.

At the end of the day, after having done this for 4 years now, I may have 21 tire sets but have made not a $ in profit. Hey, it's fun though!


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## Gluhwein (Aug 21, 2011)

I get where you're coming from John, but why do car manufacturers do this? I'm not a real "car guy" and I just don't get why every individual car model has it's own specific tire size. Of course it's to make more money, but come on. They could probably lower car prices significantly if tire sizes were a bit more standardized. As it is, every week or so I get emails from Tire Rack advertising nice rebates on Michelin or Goodyear tires none of which fit on any of my family's 4 cars.


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## Prost (Nov 23, 2005)

If I plan an ED between 3/28/13 and 4/5/13, do I need winter tire? :dunno:


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Prost said:


> If I plan an ED between 3/28/13 and 4/5/13, do I need winter tire? :dunno:


To drive legally in Wintry conditions, yes, you do require Winter tires in March and early April. Even if conditions are not Wintry, if you drive in Bavaria or Austria without Winter tires and are in an accident, then you will be deemed to be at fault, regardless of whether you otherwise would be or not.


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## jtuds (Mar 29, 2012)

SO if you did a ED with pickup in the last few days of April or the first few weeks of May, would you really need winter tires?


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## Prost (Nov 23, 2005)

What about after April 15? Winter tire still needed in order for BMWED insurance cover for anything?


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

jtuds said:


> SO if you did a ED with pickup in the last few days of April or the first few weeks of May, would you really need winter tires?


It is highly unlikely that you would need Winter tires, unless you are planning to drive into higher elevations (above 1200 m) and and a late blast of Winter returns - which does very occasiionally happen.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Prost said:


> What about after April 15? Winter tire still needed in order for BMWED insurance cover for anything?


I am not familiar with the requirements of the BMW insurance cover so cannot answer your question. The likelyhood of you requiring Winter tires to cope with road conditions after mid-April is minimal, unless you are planning to drive into the Alps to visit the ski resorts, some of which are open till the first week of May.


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## Prost (Nov 23, 2005)

john lance said:


> I am not familiar with the requirements of the BMW insurance cover so cannot answer your question. The likelyhood of you requiring Winter tires to cope with road conditions after mid-April is minimal, unless you are planning to drive into the Alps to visit the ski resorts, some of which are open till the first week of May.


I am not planning to go up the Alps...just go north toward Berlin and or the Ring area then back to Munich...but I am not risking if BMWED insurance is not covering without snow tires before 4/15...anyone knows?


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Prost said:


> I am not planning to go up the Alps...just go north toward Berlin and or the Ring area then back to Munich...but I am not risking if BMWED insurance is not covering without snow tires before 4/15...anyone knows?


Presumably the BMW insurance would be the same as others, ie the blame would automatically be on you if you got yourself into an accident.


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## sushikiller (Dec 17, 2012)

Hi,
Would buying euro-rail ticket to take trains across countries a better option than renting snow tires that cause up to $500 for 4 days?

Thanks.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

sushikiller said:


> Hi,
> Would buying euro-rail ticket to take trains across countries a better option than renting snow tires that cause up to $500 for 4 days?
> Thanks.


Yes, sure - if you are over for a European Winter vacation and don't want to drive, then traveling by train is a good alternative. I think you may have missed the point though of what the European Delivery program is all about - something about touring through some of Europe's finest countryside with your new car, not to mention experiencing how it is to drive at high speed -and doing so legally - on the German Autobahnen!


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## Kar Don (Aug 4, 2004)

John,

How much extra would it be to drop off the car in Hamburg?


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## sushikiller (Dec 17, 2012)

john lance said:


> Yes, sure - if you are over for a European Winter vacation and don't want to drive, then traveling by train is a good alternative. I think you may have missed the point though of what the European Delivery program is all about - something about touring through some of Europe's finest countryside with your new car, not to mention experiencing how it is to drive at high speed -and doing so legally - on the German Autobahnen!


You're right. I missed the point of the ED program:tsk:


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Kar Don said:


> John,
> 
> How much extra would it be to drop off the car in Hamburg?


Hamburg would be 395 Eur (see http://www.edwintertires.com/drop_off.htm)


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## hnodrog (Sep 4, 2012)

Is the winter tire rental price really $500 for 4 days?!?!?


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

hnodrog said:


> Is the winter tire rental price really $500 for 4 days?!?!?


The rental amount depends on the vehicle for which the wheels & tires are for (see http://www.edwintertires.com/rates.htm).

For example, a 4-day rental for a 1-series would be 199 Eur, for an M3 it would be 276 Eur, for most 5-series cars 293 Eur, for a 750i it would be 464 Eur and for an M5 or M6 it would be 500 Eur.


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## Kar Don (Aug 4, 2004)

john lance said:


> Hamburg would be 395 Eur (see http://www.edwintertires.com/drop_off.htm)


Thanks John! I noticed you have availability to do it in Berlin. Is there a BMW drop point in Berlin now??


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## vetaldj (Feb 5, 2011)

Actually I was told today that if you do up to April 15th delivery you will get winter tire installed... After 15th you will get regular... Is that true? 
I'm planning either Apr 1st or Apr 16th but based on this I can review my plans...

Thanks!


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## hnodrog (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm approved for an April 15 delivery and only picked that date after my dealer called BMWNA and was told that even though the winter tire requirement is Oct. 15 THROUGH April 15 that the buyer has the option of getting snow tires or not for April 15 deliveries. I'm in the process of checking this further and will post again when I have a definite answer. Right now my delivery date is the 15th and I'm planning to stay in Munich for a day or two after delivery so really don't want the cost or hassle of getting snow tires on and off.


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## Prost (Nov 23, 2005)

hnodrog said:


> I'm approved for an April 15 delivery and only picked that date after my dealer called BMWNA and was told that even though the winter tire requirement is Oct. 15 THROUGH April 15 that the buyer has the option of getting snow tires or not for April 15 deliveries. I'm in the process of checking this further and will post again when I have a definite answer. Right now my delivery date is the 15th and I'm planning to stay in Munich for a day or two after delivery so really don't want the cost or hassle of getting snow tires on and off.


Good to know for my 4/23 M3 ED...


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

john lance said:


> Presumably the BMW insurance would be the same as others, ie the blame would automatically be on you if you got yourself into an accident.


We're looking into a 2014 X1 xdrive 2.8 M Sport (summer tire std equip) ED delivery Dec 14 of this year. Planning on the Welt install option and drop the vehicle off at your Ismanning Tire Depot on Thur or Fri Jan 2 or 3 of 2014. Regarding the statement of maintaining 24 hrs of the insurance - OK. However my question is regarding the "European Law" specifically the German section from your website noted below - is the Alliance Ins (or whoever BMW is using at that time) cover the vehicle as it is being driven to/from Log In Out location - who is liable for repair of the vehicle in the event of a accident while the vehicle is in your possession?

Is it better to drop off at Log In Out and you change the tire package in place at their location or would you still be driving it to/from Log In Out/Ismanning?

_Germany
Winter tires are compulsory in Bavaria when driving in wintry conditions and a small fine will be levied for a first offence. If, however, the free flow of traffic has been affected due to a car not being equipped with Winter tires then the fine is doubled and the driver's license will incur a penalty point. In the event of a car fitted with Summer tires being responsible for a road accident then the fine will be further increased and 3 penalty points attributed to the license. The lack of Winter tires in such a situation will usually be judged as a significant factor in judging which driver is at fault in a traffic incident or road accident. The user of a vehicle without Winter tires may well find the motor insurance to be invalidated. _


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

HerrK said:


> OK. However my question is regarding the "European Law" specifically the German section from your website noted below - is the Alliance Ins (or whoever BMW is using at that time) cover the vehicle as it is being driven to/from Log In Out location - who is liable for repair of the vehicle in the event of a accident while the vehicle is in your possession?
> 
> Is it better to drop off at Log In Out and you change the tire package in place at their location or would you still be driving it to/from Log In Out/Ismanning?


There is no facility at Log In Out to re-mount your wheels & tires - we need to take the car over to our depot. The insurance cover for that return journey is included in your existing European Delivery package insurance.


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## billiebob (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks to John and Annette for a great set of winter wheels for my new 328 Msport two weeks ago! It was a great trip and it snowed almost every day in garmisch and kitzbuhel! It would have been terrifying without those tires. 

It was worth every penny of the 500 bucks or so for the week of peace of mind!


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

billiebob said:


> Thanks to John and Annette for a great set of winter wheels for my new 328 Msport two weeks ago! It was a great trip and it snowed almost every day in garmisch and kitzbuhel! It would have been terrifying without those tires.
> 
> It was worth every penny of the 500 bucks or so for the week of peace of mind!


We are pleased that you had a good, safe vacation.

The difference using Winter tires on snowy roads is huge, always more than most people ever expect!


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## tambrose (Aug 13, 2013)

*ED this October and winter tires*

I'm picking up my 5 series on 10/11 then heading to Austria for a days then down to Italy for a couple weeks. I'd be dropping off in Munich on 10/28.

I understand that the German law requires snow tires starting 10/15, correct? The tire rental expense is fairly high for that many days (700+ euros). I will be in Italy from 10/15 and driving back to Munich on 10/27.

Do I need to worry about the weather? It feels like a bit of un-needed expense, but I'm not sure.

Thanks.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Some would say that's an easy question to answer with a firm "yes", that you do need to worry because if there's snow when you are in Bavaria, Austria or as you go over the Brenner Pass and you get stuck or cause others to get stuck or are in a collision, then you will be held responsible if you don't have Winter tires, regardless of whether you were really at fault or not. 

In reality, you could wait till shortly before you arrive and then check out the 14-day weather forecast, as if it's going to be warm with not a Wintry day in sight then you can probably get away with not having any Winter equipment at all.

You might want to also keep one eye on the availability chart on the website for your type of vehicle, as if you start seeing some dates getting booked up then there may not be a set of Winter tires available if you end up wanting one. October is, after all, our busiest month for Winter tire rentals, along with December.


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