# BMW USA Sales Continue Slide - Down 8% in August



## surf330 (Sep 20, 2008)

Surely they can't be surprised. Prices up, warranty coverage down...


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

surf330 said:


> Surely they can't be surprised. Prices up, warranty coverage down...


BMW's warranty/maintenance changes don't kick in until the 2017 model year, and the only changes are in cutting back on free maintenance from four to three years, and no longer including brake maintenance items (pads, rotors). The warranty coverage is going to stay the same, 4/50.

Mercedes-Benz dropped their free maintenance years ago, and it didn't hurt them a bit. Lexus never had one. They're doing fine, too.


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

I am going to make a prediction right now, that when BMW world wide sales are reported, it will follow the trend that the rest of this year has had, which is US = DOWN, Worldwide sales totals = UP. BMW group worldwide as late as july was reporting record growth. Here is a link to the BMW worldwide sales from July.

This just means we (the US) are not as important to BMWs overall sales growth as we once were. Of course I am sure they dont WANT lower sales in the US, but if you had to take lower sales in the US but higher sales overall (record sales), most businesses would take it.

http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do?&id=2750&mid=243


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## jrshc (May 7, 2016)

jjrandorin said:


> I am going to make a prediction right now, that when BMW world wide sales are reported, it will follow the trend that the rest of this year has had, which is US = DOWN, Worldwide sales totals = UP. BMW group worldwide as late as july was reporting record growth. Here is a link to the BMW worldwide sales from July.
> 
> This just means we (the US) are not as important to BMWs overall sales growth as we once were. Of course I am sure they dont WANT lower sales in the US, but if you had to take lower sales in the US but higher sales overall (record sales), most businesses would take it.
> 
> http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do?&id=2750&mid=243


I think that's about right. Historically, US sales have also been less profitable for BMW than sales in other markets. Now that the dollar has strengthened that may have changed somewhat, but I think BMW would still rather sell a 5 series in China than a 5 series in the US.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

Maybe it is already time for BMW to rethink the uncalled for price increases for European Delivery that the multi dealers apparently lobbied for to squeeze the independents by making European Delivery less attractive.


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## the kidd (Jun 20, 2010)

maybe do to sales tactics. "Price listed is a good price" "You didn't give me a ten on my survey, i failed" Maybe if the SA's weren't so worried about their GD surveys and concerned themselves more with retaining longtime clients, their numbers would be better.


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## mrblahh (Oct 9, 2006)

the new mini is ugly as sin, not shocking the CPO older generation is moving so well, and that version finally had most of the engine bugs worked out

gotta wonder if dumbing down bmw designs for the masses will work long term my last new bmw was a few years ago and I'm just not interested in the current offerings, I doubt they will sell me a no option M2


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## rajens00 (Apr 22, 2009)

I've owned many BMW's and been a big fan until the past few years when they began using cheap interior plastics. A couple years ago I had my heart set on the new 4 Series until I actually drove one. They should be ashamed of the ridiculous cheap I-drive screen. All of my BMW's I owned before 2012 had soft padding and leather on the inside doors. . . Today's BMWs are mainly cheap plastic interior doors. Their latest fall from greatness is to have their warranty match a Dodge Dart.


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## jiveturky1 (Jan 17, 2012)

The recent changes to appeal to a larger market also mean they are appealing to a more crowded market. There are lots of excellent options in entry level luxury. Even though the number of buyers is miniscule who care about "driving" and all that conveys to us, car reviewers are disproportionately of that mindset. Those reviews are what pops up online when someone is shopping, and reading all that negativity has to influence their decision. 

The brand no longer carries the cachet to warrant a higher price for fewer features.


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## Yangorang (Jan 19, 2013)

Other than the continued use of inline-6 engines I honestly think their cars have lost much of their appeal to me. The newer cars have similar driving feel to the competition, but the interior doesn't feel as good and the base pricing is quite a bit more expensive.

When I look at new cars now the F30 just doesn't stand above the crowd and I'm looking at other cars like the C-class, A4, Q60, IS, and heck even the Mazda6 and Mustang.

E90 owner.


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## mrblahh (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm looking more at mazda, they have a big race presence I don't see much from BMW anymore. The local BMWCCA does almost nothing now, no autocross at all


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

mrblahh said:


> The local BMWCCA does almost nothing now, no autocross at all


Peachtree Chapter? They've held four autocross events already this year, and have three more coming up, the next one on September 11. Did they get cancelled?

http://www.peachtreebmwcca.org/index.php/autocross


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

1northcar said:


> Maybe it is already time for BMW to rethink the uncalled for price increases for European Delivery that the multi dealers apparently lobbied for to squeeze the independents by making European Delivery less attractive.


Are dealers actually to blame for that? I thought it was entirely a BMW of NA + BMW AG decision.


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## mrblahh (Oct 9, 2006)

gkr778 said:


> Peachtree Chapter? They've held four autocross events already this year, and have three more coming up, the next one on September 11. Did they get cancelled?
> 
> http://www.peachtreebmwcca.org/index.php/autocross


Tarheel


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## AntDX316 (Nov 3, 2009)

This is what happens when they stopped doing the BMW events at Metlife, Citifield parking lot!!

I suggest they let people test out the new BMW M2 as well as the 435i and 335i.

They had 2 events last year so the decline makes sense. They also had other BMW events which were all great. This year I had no invites for anything except to test drive for an ASPCA event at the dealership.

A lot of people have money and don't know what to buy. Without a lead of letting them test drive then people won't know BMW. I've driven many cars from different manufacturers and I have to say BMW is the best.

If people like something a lot, they would use their home equity as collateral. I suggest some of the event be done at night because the BMW lights at night make it like night time is no issue. The new interior lighting is also upper class. Some people prefer Mercedes-Benz or even Lexus. In my opinion, I think BMW only shines if it's the highest end model of the series that is not M. Someone had an F10 535i and prefers a '14 E350. He said it wasn't exciting but I blame the engine so at a lower level trim spec package Mercedes and other manufacturers probably win.

For 2017 I highly recommending bringing back the event at least once that year and you will see sales go back up.


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## AntDX316 (Nov 3, 2009)

It's either they aren't buying new or buying pre-owned and from used car dealerships which brings business to BMW due to the service. I suggest looking at the service profits too and not just the sales of new vehicles.


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## mr_clueless (Nov 13, 2009)

OK, they're doing a bit worse than the industry, but the auto sales as a whole is down in August.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2016/09/us-light-vehicle-sales-increase-to-169.html
(The URL name is a misnomer. The blogger probably had a typo when he first wrote it up.)


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## MarkJK (Aug 9, 2013)

Build quality and interior feel is mediocre even on relatively expensive models such as my 550 not to mention the cheaper ones that I sometimes drive when I get a loaner. More importantly, handling, steering feel and responsiveness is nothing special anymore. Significantly cheaper cars offer a similar experience. That's especially true for 3 Series and below. I'd be hard pressed justifying the extra expense if I were shopping in that category. It's all starting to catch up with BMW now. The fact that MB has put out some impressive models with the new C and E class doesn't help. They really need to step it up with the new 5 and 3 Series or this may be one of my last BMWs. And I've been a fan of the brand for decades.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

Quote: Are dealers actually to blame for that? I thought it was entirely a BMW of NA + BMW AG decision.

This has been suggested multiple times over on the European Delivery thread by those in the know.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

By way of example, here is a post over on the European Delivery forum from Bimmerfest member aardvark:

Only time will tell whether they made the right move here. I have to assume that BMW AG was happy enough with the program. From their standpoint, a sale is a sale. ED customers are very loyal and are in some ways ambassadors for the brand. I have multiple friends who seem fascinated by my ED. They ask me a lot of questions about it and have expressed in doing it themselves.

And ED folks undoubtedly pump a fair bit of money into Munich's tourist economy every year, and that's got to count for something with respect to the company being a good corporate citizen locally.

We may never know all the factors that went into this decision, but I suspect that maybe some U.S. dealers weren't all that thrilled with the current program. Let's face it. A few dealers (e.g., some of our board sponsors) seem to do a ton of EDs , while many of our local franchises do very few (or, in some cases, practically none). And, yet, because we're in the information age, all dealers are competing with each other to some extent. Online forums such as this one often feature tales of great deals obtained via ED, and even non-ED customers read that stuff. The overwhelming majority of BMW customers in the U.S. (>98% ?) have no interest in doing ED. They're not going to go to Munich for a car. And, yet, does the mere knowledge that ED customers have been getting these great deals perhaps make them less sanguine about the deals that they're getting? Maybe there was a feeling that the gap should be narrowed.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

.. and here is a post by dreidel:

NA's customer is their dealers, and there are more and more large entities (Penske, AutoNation, Sonic,...) that hold a lot of sway with NA. I'm not going delve into this in much more detail, but a proliferation of quick turns at reduced margin haven't gone un-noticed by NA or their customers.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

... and from Bimmerpost member Technic:

I do understand some big chain dealers pushing BMWNA to behave like GM or Ford, though. And I bet that buying/leasing a BMW in those dealers will feel exactly like buying a GM or a Ford.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

And from the late Ninong who was respected as probably the most knowledgeable persons on Bimmerfest due to his years at BMW dealerships and continuing ties up to his passing last month:

This is just a guess on my part but I assume what is meant by that comment is that some dealers resent the fact that other dealers -- those with active Internet specialists -- are removing customers from the marketplace by offering them very low gross deals on ED cars that don't come out of their allocations. The quick turn around would be a customer who is talked into doing an ED simply as a way of competing on price vs. that customer's local dealership whose offer was much higher. The customer could catch a non-stop flight on a Friday evening and take Saturday delivery at the Welt. They could even pay the 75 euro charge to have the Welt take responsibility for getting the car to the airport. They could browse around the Welt and then take a return flight Saturday evening arriving back in the US on Sunday without missing a single day of work. If the ordering dealer is too far away (e.g., West Coast), they could take Performance Center delivery if that's within say 500 miles of their home.

This might be viewed by the complaining dealers, assuming there are any, in the same light as back when dealers were allowed to quote low prices on BMW extended warranties and sell them over the phone to out of the area customers without even physically seeing the car. Actually, physically seeing the car was an original requirement when BMW invented these things. Maybe some of the chain dealers -- AutoNation, Penske, Sonic, Hendrick -- are upset that out-of-the-area Internet specialists are pulling customers from their area by offering them very low prices on European Delivery? I have no idea if that's going on or not but some people on this forum seem to think it is.

Quote:
I mean, ED is the perfect selling tool for any dealer... they do not have to purchase the car, much less stock it, no dealer preparation (or at least drastically reduced) and on top of all that, making a nice profit for a car that -again- is not at the their lot. It is as close as a factory direct order that it can be for these dealers.
Maybe they don't like the ED deal grosses? Maybe they don't want to compete with themselves, not to mention out-of-the-area Internet specialists? You're pulling customers out of the available pool of potential BMW customers and you're probably not going to make as much profit on them as you would if they walked into your showroom and bought a car off the showroom floor. For one thing there would be no backend money from BMWNA.

Quote:
If other dealers are "abusing" the ED by selling $xxx over invoice well... how that can be abused if BMWNA allows it? After all, the order has to go via BMWNA.
What BMWNA can and cannot do when it comes to their unique relationship with American dealers is complicated by our laws, both federal and state. Just ask Elon Musk to explain it to you.

BMWNA can't refuse to accept an order from a dealer if it's a legitimate order. They can't tell him, "Hey, you took this customer away from another dealer 300 miles away just by offering a ridiculously low ED deal." They definitely can't tell him what price he can charge for the car. That would be price fixing. That's why the Monroney sticker is called a Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Look at all the dealers who sold i8's for $100,000 over MSRP. That didn't last long, did it? It always happens exactly like that except I've never seen a new BMW go for that much over MSRP before. The new 850i was going for $10,000-$20,000 over MSRP when it first came out and it ran the exact same course. The pack stickers came off after the first four or five months and all the guys with money to burn already had one.

Quote:
BMWNA already increased the number of models for ED coming from dealer allocations, so again, if anything, whatever "sales damage" done stays at that dealer.
The complaining dealers, if there are any, consider the damage being done to them is the loss of potential customers from their local pool of potential customers. As far as which ED cars come out of allocations, isn't it just all M cars plus new generation models for the first few months?

I guess we're getting off on a tangent from what started out as a simple announcement by a BMW salesperson that the ED discount will change from 7% to 5% effective with cars produced after Jan. 1, 2016. I asked him specifically if anything else had changed and he said no. Others have expressed doubt about that and suggested that BMW is somehow making other changes to the way the dealer's invoice is calculated on ED cars. Does anybody know this for a fact or is this just speculation? Just asking.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

Maybe it is already time for BMW to rethink the uncalled for price increases for European Delivery that the multi dealers apparently lobbied for to squeeze the independents by making European Delivery less attractive.

I should probably expand upon my initial comment (above) that the increase in European Delivery price was "uncalled for" by noting that this price increase was implemented at point in time when the U.S. dollar to Euro exchange rate should have called for a decrease rather than an increase for U.S. customers.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

The price of anything is based on supply and demand. If the price of anything goes up and the demand doesn't go down, the price increase is "called for." I suspect the biggest reason the ED discount went down is that the ED delivery schedule has a healthy backlog and it is running at 100% of capacity. 

The fact that ED's don't come out of dealers' allocations muddies the issue supply and demand issue, though. I suspect this was a logistics decision on BMW AG's part, to keep ED running smoothly at 100% capacity. 

I guess military/diplomatic sales don't come out of allocations, either. But, there's a legitimate logistical argument for that. You have to be physically overseas on duty (although even temporary duty) to qualify for M/D sales, and you need a new car when you need a new car (when still overseas, or immediately upon returning to the U.S. after a long term overseas stint)


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## thebmw (Oct 19, 2006)

rajens00 said:


> I've owned many BMW's and been a big fan until the past few years when they began using cheap interior plastics. A couple years ago I had my heart set on the new 4 Series until I actually drove one. They should be ashamed of the ridiculous cheap I-drive screen. All of my BMW's I owned before 2012 had soft padding and leather on the inside doors. . . Today's BMWs are mainly cheap plastic interior doors. Their latest fall from greatness is to have their warranty match a Dodge Dart.


And the Dodge Dart has an interior that ironically feels more upscale too! The interior on the 4 series is so cheap feeling that it completely turned me off of it as well.


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## Cory Huffman (Sep 26, 2016)

3 series is most popular in the us market in first look.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Welcome Cuz. Dad was from Greenup, KY.


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