# What would be a versatile track car (SCCA & BMW CCA CR)?



## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

I'm trying to decide on which car to look for as a track car. (I thought I had decided, but not I'm not sure.) I'm pretty familiar with what people run at BMW CCA club races. Lots of E30 M3's, so that might be a good way to go. But I hear that M3's aren't classed with many other cars at SCCA events and that maybe E36 325's are more versatile in that they would be good for both BMW CCA club racing and SCCA racing. I think it's best I try to do both because there are only about 3 BMW CCA races within a 5 hour drive of where I live. 3 races a year doesn't sound like too much.

I was considering stock racers such as:
E30 325is (but seems like not many are raced in BMW CCA)
E30 M3 (but not much to do in SCCA?)
E36 325 (but subframe tearing issues)
E36 M3 (pricey and not too SCCA friendly?)
Miata (limited to SCCA/spec miata? too small to travel in for weekends?)

I like the BMW CCA driver school format where instructors are in the car with the student. And I've heard that's rare for SCCA driver schools. So maybe I should be biased toward BMW's over, say, Miatas. I'll definitely do lots of driver schools in the future (as a student and maybe eventually an instructor).

I'm just looking for a fun car that could provide me with lots of track events to go to in the midwest- both driver schools and club races. 

And what boards are out there that I can read to see what people are driving. Going through the SCCA various web sites has not proven too helpful yet.

I'm up for hearing any opinions. Thanks.


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Hey Jon -

Having bought a car configured for SCCA and looking to run it in BMW CR, hopefully I can help.

In my particular case, it's a '95 M3 configured for SCCA Touring 2.

Here's my advice:
1) it seems to me if you want to do both, it's better/easier configure for SCCA and then find the corresponding BMW Club racing class to run in. BMW Club racing (and NABR) have rules to allow cars to crossover from SCCA 

2) Stay away from the Touring classes and go for the IT's. Touring classes are expensive because they are geared to draw the newer cars and as the current cars get older, they run out of eligibility (which can also long term availability of approved parts). It is already causing me some potential issues and I don't anticipate that it will get better.

3) to find out more about IT brackets and which BMWs make sense in them, I think there are quite a few SCCA racers on Bimmerforums. Also, I'd bet the guys over at TC Kline would have a pretty good idea and would probably be a great place (not too far away) to have the car prepped at. There is also BavarianTuning.com up near Chicago. Nick knows about those SCCA classes.









Photo by HACK


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Hi Scott-

Advice from the expert. :thumbup: 

All of what you say sounds good. I'll read some more over at bimmerforums, although I already do a bit. Any suggestions for more places to see what other people are racing at SCCA? WHich car would be a nice, versatile platform for racing in various venues? That info has got to be out in the ether somewhere, but I've looked around and haven't come across it yet.

Yup, TCKline is kind of close. Maybe I'll look at them once I get a car picked out. There is a shop in Indianapolis that does a little racing (Vaughn Motorworks). I hadn't heard about BavarianTuning.com.

Here in the midwest there are lots of tracks and that should allow for more track time that I can ever take. So I've just got to get myself a car and work it out with a couple seasons of driver schools which should be great fun. Then the racing can start. And maybe instructing at driver schools as well.

I've said it before- your car looks really nice. :thumbup: Enjoy.

Thanks.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Jon -

I get the impression from your post that you haven't done an Driver's Ed style events yet. If that's the case I think you ought to start there. Take your 325 to the track and see what it's like. If you are uncomfortable with taking your street car to the track see if you can get some time in someone else's car. Find events in your area and contact the organizers to see if they can get you in touch with someone that might be interested in that kind of arrangement. Might be tough if you don't have experience, but it's worth a try.

If all that fails buy something cheap and try it out. Something to keep stock and sell if you don't like the track thing. Tough for me to imagine, but...

Until you take the first step it's really tough to imagine what's next.

To my knowledge the SCCA doesn't do in-car instructor events. They do racing schools, but I think you'd be foolish to jump into one of those without a lot of track experience. For those kind of events look towards BMWCCA and PCA (Porsche Club of America). Check out www.trackschedule.com for events near you.

ps - Bimmerworld's world challenge 325s are for sale. TC Kline is also an excellent point of contact for this sort of thing.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Jon's done a bunch of events in the past.

Now he wants something he can stuff without calling the insurance company.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Thanks DannO. Nick is right. I've been to the track for driver school weekends with my 325. I like it a lot and want to do more. And then I can see myself wanting to race once I get good. And maybe even instruct at driver schools. So, yeah, I want a car that I won't feel awful if I wreck it, or can still have my 325 to take me to work. But with a high liklihood that I'll get into racing, I might as well get a car that would be good for racing, later. So I'm looking for a little help in trying to decide what would be a good race car to get- something that would allow me to attend and instuct at driver schools with instructors in the car, something that is good for both BMW CCA club racing, and SCCA racing, to maximize the options during the season.

Nick- Best of luck getting your car fixed.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

E30 325's run in K classes in BMW CCA racing. K Prepared will also allow a car prepared to SCCA ITS specs.

That is the way I am looking at going. Especially with the low costs for the cars.

If you want an E36 IT car, contact BimmerWorld as they build them and they win. The may even have a few from last season for sale at this time.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Ok, sorry I misunderstood. Are you looking for something that is street legal? Will you drive it to and from the track, or trailer it?

Terry is very right about Bimmerworld. They are tops in ITS and know the club racing scene very well too. James Clay is the man to talk to - he'll treat you right.

I just checked their site - they still have an e36 ITS shell listed for sale, but it may be sold. At $3k for the roller with cage (which would cost $3k by itself) it's a steal, but also the start of a big project.


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

Personally I would love to find an E30 325is for exactly the uses you want.







Cost,Feel,Balance a great package!I don't see how that not many of them race BMWCCA in your area is an issue.If you enjoy charging around the track in it and the price is reasonable what else really counts?Whatever you get,have a blast and tons of fun!


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Hi Guys,

Yeah, E30 325's are appealing for their low cost and being pretty simple to work on. That's what I was originally looking for. Then I realized that few of them are in BMW CCA CR. Much more M3's (both E30 and E36) there. But if an E30 325 could run in an SCCA class with many other racers, that could be fun and make it a worthwhile car to go for. I can't seem to find out if that's that case, though. Spec E30 sounds nice, too, but it doesn't look like it's really made it to the midwest yet.

Getting a fully prepared bimmerworld car is out of my cash limits for this. That shell for $3000 does sound like a deal, but too big an undertaking for me at this time. One big thing I'm also hoping to learn a lot from this track car endeavor (in addition to how to drive better) is how to work on cars, in general. Starting without a motor, transmission, suspension, etc. is beyond me at this time. 

And yes, I'm looking for something to keep street legal for a while. Drive it to the track and back. I don't want to jump into the whole truck/trailer matter just yet (due to cost, space, and indications that I've gone totally mad over this track thing  )


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## cenotaph (Dec 19, 2001)

JonW said:


> (due to cost, space, and indications that I've gone totally mad over this track thing  )


I don't know. You seem pretty normal to me.

/me checks local BMWCCA chapter web page for 2004 autocross dates for 10th time.

What?!


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Miata is dirt cheap, as racing goes. Mazda Motorsports is a good thing. If you want to do solo events/autocrosses, you have options for setup. If you want to do club racing, Spec Miata isn't street legal, but you might be able to swing what a guy in our club does - he gets a temp 3-day permit for his non-street-legal race car whenever he races. That possibility would apply to any car you get, of course. 

You need to drive one to see if it's too small for you. Drop by a Mazda dealership that has a used NA on the lot and try it. I have 6'+ friends who race them and 6'+ friends built differently who can't get into the driver's seat.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Rgal- I know you're a big Miata fan in this regard. The cost of Miata racing is quite appealing. 

I'd guess I can fit into one without much problem. I'm a hair under 6' and thin. I can try one out easily, though. Guess I'll do that. And I'll see what these cars feel like- supposedly quite nice.

But last I checked for the spec miata race schedule, I did not see much here in the midwest, mostly the coasts. Would there be decent driver school opportunitites with a Miata like BMW CCA weekends (as both a student and instructor)? I haven't found much for that yet either. 

I guess those are my main concerns about Miatas, other than size for carrying all my junk for a weekend track outing. Of course, small, light, well handling, cheap cars are quite appealing.


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

I think Pinecone and others hit it on the head. e30 325s that are ITS and K prepared compliant (and can still be street legal).

People that should know a lot about preparing those cars for those classes are the people that raced them well. Off the top of my head:

Bimmerworld
Turner Motorsports
TC Kline
Bimmerhaus

I think Kormen is also in or near Ohio. Ground Control is always coming up with suspension innovations.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

E30 325, eh? From what I found surfing, it looks like E30 and E36 325's run in the same class for SCCA, ITS. And I would think the E36 more competitive. It also looks like the E36 325's run in J class for BMW CCA club racing. That's the same class as the popular E30 M3's, so you'd always have a decent amount of people to run with in the same class. I wonder how an E36 325 and an E30 M3 would do against each other, assuming the same driver, preparation level, etc. I'd guess more E36 325's coming into the racing ranks as their prices fall. 

Am I right in seeing that SCCA only provides an option for ITS? These E30 and E36's are too old for SS. And it looks like ITS has a preparation level closer to "prepared" rather than "stock" for BMW CCA CR. 

I think I'll keep the car "stock" according to BMW CCA CR to start with- a cheaper way to go. And that will also allow SCCA ITS. And if I were to move to "prepared" that would still keep me in ITS. 

So it looks like the E30 and E36 325's may be the way to go. And the E36's have more people to run with and will be more competitive. On the flip side, the E36 is more expensive to buy for now, more complicated to work on, and will need a lot of rear suspension welding and reinforcement before heading out to the track.


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

JonW said:


> E30 325, eh? From what I found surfing, it looks like E30 and E36 325's run in the same class for SCCA, ITS. And I would think the E36 more competitive.
> 
> Am I right in seeing that SCCA only provides an option for ITS? These E30 and E36's are too old for SS. And it looks like ITS has a preparation level closer to "prepared" rather than "stock" for BMW CCA CR.
> 
> I think I'll keep the car "stock" according to BMW CCA CR to start with- a cheaper way to go. And that will also allow SCCA ITS. And if I were to move to "prepared" that would still keep me in ITS.


I think it depends on what modifications are allowed to each one in the SCCA rulebook. The lighter weight of the e30 could help. The idea is to make all the cars close in lap time even though they have different power/handling characteristics. There's also some politics that play into it as well, but those kinds of questions are where the experienced builders/racers can be of help. They should be able to tell you what BMWs are good choices for which class.

Again, if being able to run in both SCCA and BMW Club is the objective, I would configure the car per the SCCA rules. There will always be some class of BMW Club Racing where the car will fit.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

If you read the BMW CCA rules a car prepared to SCCA SS class rules runs in Stock. A car prepared to IT rules runs in Prepared. You can NOT mix and match rule sets, the car either has to be fully SCCA or fully BMW CCA compliant.

The tradeoff is IT doesn´t allow cam changes, but BMW CCA Prepared does.

As for E30 versus E36, a lot depends on your budget. A recent test in BMW Car between E30 and E36 318´s shows the E30 has a big advantage due to the lighter weight.

A Spec E30 only runs Spec E30 or BMW CCA Stock with lots less preparation. And NABR who runs the Spec E30 also runs a Touring class for Other prep levels. The Spec E30 level is very limiting.

The whole idea of doing ITS prep is to be able to run in both BMW CCA AND SCCA events.

Of course you could start at a minimum level and build up as time goes on. You just won´t be as competitive in the early years.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Of course you could start at a minimum level and build up as time goes on. You just won´t be as competitive in the early years.


Yup, that's the idea. Like I mentioned, I don't care much about being competitive. But I do want to pick a car that will have other people to race against. And a car that will allow upgrading to be competitive, if I choose to try and be so later. I might as well pick a car with that flexibility.

You mentioned SS, but my understanding is that class is restricted to cars of a maximum age of 7 years. So not an option for me to run a newer car like that. Looks like ITS would be my only SCCA option.

Scott- Your M3 is prepped for SCCA Touring, but my understanding is Touring only allows cars of 5 years old maximum. So why put all the effort and cash into an E36 with a very limited racing future?


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

JonW said:


> You mentioned SS, but my understanding is that class is restricted to cars of a maximum age of 7 years. So not an option for me to run a newer car like that. Looks like ITS would be my only SCCA option.
> 
> Scott- Your M3 is prepped for SCCA Touring, but my understanding is Touring only allows cars of 5 years old maximum. So why put all the effort and cash into an E36 with a very limited racing future?


I think that's it. For what you're looking for, I think ITS is the way to go.

It's 7 years on Touring as well (no positive competition changes after 5 years), but they've extended that up to 10 years on some cars (like the e36 M3), but even with that extension, it's near the end of it's eligibility.

Luckily, that's where BMW Club Racing comes in. I can basically 'freeze' the car's configuration to the SCCA rulebook of it's last year of eligibility and stay in the equivalent BMW Club Racing class from that point on (transitioning over to a BMW Club Racing log book). The objective of BMW CR is different than the SCCA. It's set up for the safe enjoyment of racing and preservation (hence the 13/13 rules) of all BMWs - there is a classification for virtually any BMW made - I think even a vintage class (shoud you be hiding a 507 in a remote garage somewhere  ). Lots of people still racing 2002's in BMW Club Racing. It's my intention to transition the car to BMW Club Racing and maybe also some NASA/NABR racing (predominantly in SoCal).

Oh, that's one more thing to consider about SCCA racing - contact. It can definitely add to the maintenance/upkeep costs.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Sounds like a good plan. A nice M3 like yours must be a dream. So you'd better get it on the track as much as possible. 



scottn2retro said:


> Oh, that's one more thing to consider about SCCA racing - contact. It can definitely add to the maintenance/upkeep costs.


I was wondering about this. I know for BMW CR it's more for fun- what I'm looking for. But the SCCA and IT web sites seem to have lots of pictures of banged up cars and cars in mid air. Not very appealing if there will be lots of contact involved. Is it really as bad as the impression I'm getting?


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

JonW said:


> Sounds like a good plan. A nice M3 like yours must be a dream. So you'd better get it on the track as much as possible.
> 
> I was wondering about this. I know for BMW CR it's more for fun- what I'm looking for. But the SCCA and IT web sites seem to have lots of pictures of banged up cars and cars in mid air. Not very appealing if there will be lots of contact involved. Is it really as bad as the impression I'm getting?


Probably best to let the SCCA veterans speak on this, but I can give you my take from what I've seen and heard (and by looking at the log books & number of dents and creases on my car  )

I think there's a lot of factors contributing to the amount of contact. 1) heritage - the old 'rubbing is racing' approach where it is just accepted as part of normal on track behavior 2) the rules are less severe in regards to contact and any penalties than in organizations where car preservation is one of the top priorities 3) easier to get a racing license - it's possible to have racers of relatively low experience levels out there and that may contribute to some of the contact 4) classes and competition - in some classes, the cars and drivers are so evenly matched, it just makes for racing in tight quarters and the run groups can be pretty big at some events 5) How competitive you are - if you are willing to give up a position easily to save the car, you can probably save yourself some contact. But if you're competitive and need to make tough passes or defend position, you'll probably get some. The national runoffs can have a lot of contact.

But the contact is also why the SCCA is probably the best place to learn if you want to move on to pro driving - the experience of handling cars during contact.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Hey Scott- Very interesting thoughts. Thanks. It all sounds like tons o' fun. :thumbup: 

Before my first driver school, someone told me, quite politely, to be careful because track time is addictive. Don't go to that first event unless I'm willing to make it my main hobby in life. I scoffed! 'I'm a mature guy,' I thought. When I went to my first track weekend, I thought all those people there with dedicated track wheels (not even to mention whole cars) were pretty crazy. :eeps: 

Each track weekend has been great fun. And now my biggest question is "WHICH track car should I get?" I guess it's all over for me. :angel:


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

JonW said:


> Hey Scott- Very interesting thoughts. Thanks. It all sounds like tons o' fun. :thumbup:
> 
> Before my first driver school, someone told me, quite politely, to be careful because track time is addictive. Don't go to that first event unless I'm willing to make it my main hobby in life. I scoffed! 'I'm a mature guy,' I thought. When I went to my first track weekend, I thought all those people there with dedicated track wheels (not even to mention whole cars) were pretty crazy. :eeps:
> 
> Each track weekend has been great fun. And now my biggest question is "WHICH track car should I get?" I guess it's all over for me. :angel:


I think that's how it starts for all of us. "main hobby in life" about sums it up. This coming from a guy who has made a hobby of having hobbys. I'm a one-hobby man now, and quite secure in it. :thumbup:


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

*OT: D Mod race car for sale...*

I know Jon is going another route, but figured that some people reading this thread might be interested. I have no personal knowledge of this car but can vouch for the selling agent, Bruce Matesso. I came "this close" to buying his D Mod e30 m3 about a year ago. I spoke with him many times on the phone about the car and he was always more than willing to take all the time I needed to discuss it. Anyway, thumbs up...

---

Come on guys, don't be shy. This is simply the finest E30 M3 Race Car in 
the country. Step up and kick some butt!!!! I had a few tire kickers with 
the last email but no check yet...

So why am I sending out this email and not Dave? Simply put, Dave asked me 
to sell the car. If you need to know the details then ask. All inquiries 
will go through me.

I have pictures so if you are serious and would like to see photos please 
email me and I'll forward them. FYI, The list moderator would not let me 
send large files so here is the text to start.

Thanks,
Bruce
408-489-1414
[email protected]

-------------------------

CHASSIS HISTORY, INTERIOR & EXTERIOR:
-1990 E30 M3 Chassis with a 10 point strut tower to strut tower 1.5' DOM 
cage. Driver side has a triple ladder bar for side impact protection. (See 
web link for 13 detailed pictures) The car was originally prepared for the 
World Challenge by Gary Bossert but due to chassis obsolescence issues the 
car found its way to BMW Club Racing in the D-Modified class. It can also 
be run in SCCA = ITE, NASA = NABR R6 and various club racing venues. It was 
sold to Dave Stohlman in early 2000.

CAGE LINK DETAIL: http://www.e30m3performance.com/tech_articles/cage_symposium/Bossert_cages/Bossert_cages.htm

CHASSIS DESCRIPTION:
- Complete fiberglass front end including splitter, hood, fenders, front 
and rear bumpers, very light! Sub 2400lbs in present configuration. and 
could easily loose another 200lbs with very little work.
- Original Evo 3 Rear wing
- Kirkey ultralight seat
- MOMO champion steering wheel with detachable hub
- Lexan side windows
- Dinan strut tower brace ( Not that it needed it)
- Various additional gauges, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure
- Wiring harness professionally rewired to accomodate tower to tower cage. 
(Pro Job)

SAFETY EQUIPMENT
- Fuel Safe 15 Gallon gas tank.
- Pyrotect 3 inch 5 point harness
- Pyrotect Window net
- Kill Switch (SCCA approved)
- Lifeline Zero 2000 Fire system with dual manual triggers and two spray 
nozzles one in engine bay and the other in the cockpit.

BRAKING SYSTEM:
- Brembo 13" big brake kit, extra pads if needed.
- On / Off on the fly switchable ABS system.
- Hawk Blues all the way around.
- Bimmer world, brake duct cooling kit
- Dual in line master cylinder.
- Steel braided brake lines (all 6, complete)

SUSPENSION & WHEELS:
- Ground Control coil over suspension. (Coil over currently not being used 
in rear)
- Ground Control Advanced Design double adjustable shocks Front & Rear
- Dinan 19mm & 16mm fully adjustable sway bars
- Front A arms are aluminum and mono ball bearing mounted
- Rear trailing arms are mounted with Dinan adjustable camber kit. (The 
weld in kit)
- Rear subframe is hard mounted with modified bushings. (Very trick set up)
- Corner weighed and aligned by M&S Racing.
- Revolution 16 x 8 rims mounted with 245/45/16 Hoosiers S03's. Other 
wheels are optional at additional cost.
- 60mm BBS Wheel studs.

DRIVE TRAIN:
- 5sp Tranny
- Flywheel - 8lb TMS aluminum flywheel.
- SACHS Heavy duty racing clutch, Plate, disc & T/O.
- 4.10 LSD Diff - 40% lock M-Coupe diff cover. (Red line lube only)

ENGINE:
- Engine, is one of the most powerful 11.25:1 engines in any D-Mod E30 M3 
across the country. This engine produces 240+ RWHp and 180+ Lb ft or torque 
all on 92 octain (If you know anything about these engines those are very 
good numbers) All this with a stock airflow meter in front of it... Yup,,, 
we laughed too,,, all the way to the track to kick some serious butt. It 
was clearly the strongest engine we ever built. We still have the original 
Dyno numbers.
Details
- 2.5L bottom end all parts magnafluxed under black light upon rebuild, 
Block, Rods & Crank (All perfect)
- Evo 3 crank with motorsport main and rod bearing kit.
- Weisco TMS, Racing pistons 11.25:1 compression
- Larger injectors, Bosch (The green expensive as heck ones)
- AFM (5 series)
- Stock Bosch Motronic with custom Conforti chip and 8k rev limit.
- Group-A 2 piece Header - Genuine BMW Motorsport part with Dual 2 1/4 inch 
down pipe
- Dual 2 1/4 inch RAVEN, all stainless steel exhaust system with DTM tipped 
muffler and a extra set of strait pipes. See spares.
- 48mm Throttle Bodies - Genuine BMW Motorsport part with 48mm horns 
included. Matched ported and flowed to head by Dave Rebello
- THE HEAD - is big valved with 38.5mm Shrick intake and exhaust valves and 
flowed by Dave Rebello. Do your home work here, Dave is a master engine 
builder for many of the World Challenge teams. Full radius seat cutting, 
ported, polished, flow-benched, diamond decked, port matched to oversize 
BMW intake manifold gaskets. All parts were new including Motorsport valve 
springs, Shrick valves, Shrick Cams, seals, guides etc...
-The engine in it's present configuration using an AFM will put 240+hp to 
the rear wheels. (See Dyno results) If you choose to eliminate the AFM and 
use a MAF / HFM or Alpha N type intake system you should expect 250 to 
260hp at the rear wheels. I also have some engine spares so feel free to 
email me about them.

COOLING SYSTEM
- All Aluminum Radiator (Thats right all aluminum welded seams)
- Electric Fan, hard wired to dash switch

COMPLETE CAR, as is, ready to race - $28Kobo. Call me and make the 
Christmas deal of your life before we go an kick you %$#& at the sears pt 
race with it...

For more information or pictures contact Bruce at 408-489-1414 or email me 
at: [email protected]

Thanks for the bandwidth,
Bruce


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

JonW said:


> And now my biggest question is "WHICH track car should I get?"


I will say this - I think you're doing the right thing by carefully considering which car to get before running right out and getting one (and possibly getting something that is not your ideal for you). By having a good idea of what you want to be doing with the car, it should narrow the field down to one or two best choices.


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## SLang (Dec 1, 2003)

I raced an E30 M3 for years.....and consider myself extremely fortunate that I had no major mechanical issues. I sold the car with the same motor and gearbox that I started with, and no rebuilds (the car became a race car with about 140k on the clock).

The M-cars will bite you a lot harder in the wallet than the non-M-cars (the E36 M3 less so). And you can make the non-M cars pretty quick....

My current car is a 328i 4-door that runs in D-Mod in BMWCCA. The car's a blast to drive, and regularly beats the M-cars it runs against (well, until Maury Gentile bolted slicks onto his E30 M3...lol). The nice thing about the car is if I blow up the motor, another one can be plugged in for $1500-$2000, after the M3 cam swap.

Note I'm discussing BMWCCA racing, not SCCA Club.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I was looking at an E30 M3 also. But figure to get one in good shape, or into good shape, you will have around $15K in it, plus making it into a race car. So $20K or more??

For that you can call BimmerWorld and have them built you one of their Stage I ITS cars, complete, ready to run. And if you blow the motor, E36 2.5L engines are a LOT cheaper than E30 M3 engines.

And if you are somewhat crazy, you could build a D Mod engine for it, and swap it in for BMW CCA racing.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> And if you are somewhat crazy, you could build a D Mod engine for it, and swap it in for BMW CCA racing.


Crazy? That's what we call fun. 

Your plan sounds like a good one to me, Terry.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Heck, Randy swap diffs for street and autocross. Swapping in an engine should be no big deal.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Heck, Randy swap diffs for street and autocross.


Are you serious?!


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Yes. He does. He runs a 3.46 on the street, and swaps back to the the 3.15 to be legal for stock class.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Ok, I've really got to give him a hard time about that.


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## Randy Forbes (Apr 1, 2002)

DannO said:


> Ok, I've really got to give him a hard time about that.


Fine, I can take it :rofl:

Just make sure you get your facts straight...

*It's a 3.73:1 for the street*


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

OK, 3.73. How do you like it? I have considered it for our S52 M. It would go along nicely when we get the cam kit.


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