# Snow Tires?



## Case (Apr 11, 2002)

Looking outside at the projected forecast of 95 degrees, this post may seem premature.
I'm in the DC Metro area, and was wondering if it's a given that I should run snow tires once the weather calls for them? This is NOT my first RWD ('84, '90 & '93 Mustangs previously), but was wondering how BMW's handled in less then desirable conditions? I never changed tires on my Mustangs but they were obviously terrible in the snow. I will have to drive the BMW all year, no other car to switch to in bad weather.
So if you guys would be kind enough to give me your opinions I would appreciate it.

P.S. I did search on this subject and found some size info, but I was just curious to how many of you run Snows or All Weathers.
Thanks in advance.


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

I run snows in the winter. I went with the narrower wheel/tire combo as well, since the stock SP setup (17x7.5 and 17x8.5 wheels) don't lend themselves to "cutting" through snow/slush very well.

My advice? Get snows. Without them I would have probably been all over the road, DSC or not. I did have to drive in the snow for a while with my SP tires/wheels on when I was traveling back from Florida and that was absolutely NOT fun! Don't let it happen to you!


----------



## Josh (PA) (Jan 21, 2002)

I have them in the Philly area. Last year was a bit of a fluke winter, but I only needed them once. With them the car is a very solid performer in bad weather, without them you are asking for trouble (if you have sport tires). I went with Dunlop Winter Sports, I didn't lose all that much day to day performance compared to my RE730s.


----------



## Case (Apr 11, 2002)

Thanks for the input guys!

I went to Tirerack, and came up with this combo. The Wheel was the cheapest/decent looking that I could find. Any thoughts/suggestions?

225/50HR16 Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22 In Stock $136.00 

16x7.5 AT Italia Type 5 In Stock $109.00

Does it make a difference to run 205/55/16 or would 225's be alright?


----------



## FrancisK (Apr 8, 2002)

Go with the 205. For snow tires, go with the narrower one. It is easier to cut thru the snow. I got 205/55/16 for my snow tires also.


----------



## Case (Apr 11, 2002)

~FrancisK
What type/size of wheel do you run those on?


----------



## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

Narrower tires are better in snow. More PSI on the footprint. I've found Tirerack's advice to be pretty reliable.


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Case, if you can get a 16x7 or even a 16x6.5 wheel go for it. 7.5" is too wide for a 205 tire which is preferrable for winter driving over a 225 for sure.


----------



## FrancisK (Apr 8, 2002)

I had the Artic Alpine (205/55/16Q) on my A4 for the 3rd season, the tread wear out pretty good and grip very good in the 1st and 2nd season. Now is it not as good as used to be but, it is still far better than all season. Also I had the Pilot Alpine (205/55/16H) on the 325 last winter, I bought it used, but still in decent shape (used 1 season). For the grip, I think Artic Apline is much better, but it may be my confusion with the quattro. It grip very well on light snow, but not as good as the Artic Alpine when the road pack with > 3 inches of snow. And it lost less power than Artic Alpine. I think it all depends on where you are, Artic Alpine best for packed snow, but less performance in dry road, but Pilot Alpine is best for the light snow, no packed snow and good performance in dry road.


----------



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Just to throw in my $.02, get some used factory BMW 16" wheels. IMHO, cheap wheels look nasty and out of place on a BMW, although there's a couple exceptions. Some BBS wheels aren't that expensive but look good and the Mille Miglia 5-spoke wheels look good since they look like Racing Dynamics wheels.

As for snow tires, I use Michelin Arctic Alpin snows on my car. Snow tires these days are incredibly good in snow and ice and most aren't that much worse than all seasons when its dry. IMO, they're definitely worth the $1k investment to protect your car.


----------



## Case (Apr 11, 2002)

Thanks for all the advice, so I'm gonna go 205/55/16 tires. And I guess I'm looking for 16x7 or 16x6.5. Do most of you run steel wheels? And if so where is the best place to find them? Dealer?


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Case said:


> *Thanks for all the advice, so I'm gonna go 205/55/16 tires. And I guess I'm looking for 16x7 or 16x6.5. Do most of you run steel wheels? And if so where is the best place to find them? Dealer? *


I bought a set of used wheels off a totalled 330 last year, so I got lucky. I think most people w/ 325s run steelies but with the 330 you need a 17" wheel or that one special 16" custom wheel made by TireRack... the other way to do it is to slap snow tires on your stock rims and buy aftermarkets for summer time.


----------



## Case (Apr 11, 2002)

Wow, I'm glad I started this thread now. I didn't realize it would be so tough. So many decisions. :dunno: I think "steelies" would be my last result, I don't really like the look of wheel covers. But I guess it would look better than not switching anything and ending up on the side of the road in a ditch.
I have type 44's right now, which I love. :thumbup: If I was able to find some used 44's would I then need 205/55/17s?


----------



## rwg (May 10, 2002)

Two thoughts. I never once felt the slightest lack of confidence with 17" wheels and 225 tires. It may be true that narrower wheels and tires help in the snow, but you would be fine if you used the wider ones. In fact, I used 17x8.5 wheels with 225 wide tires one winter. The tires didn't fit all that well (no tire outside the rim of the wheel), but the traction was great.

Second, don't by $100 wheels unless you live where there are no pot holes or other winter related road problems. I made that mistake my first winter. I replaced them for the second winter.


----------



## beauport (Jul 2, 2002)

Case, I'm in the DC area too and pick up my car next month. I have been trying to decide whether to get snow tires/wheels at all. If winter is like last year we probably won't need them, BUT, if we get one of those freekie winters then we may be in trouble. You're pretty sure you're buying? If so, let us know what you choose so I can consider them too, and oh btw, thanks for all this research.


----------



## rwg (May 10, 2002)

Ok, I had a third thought based on Beuport's comment. If you live in an area that has the risk of snow, you should at least consider getting snow tires. The high performance tires get hard at lower temperatures (below 40f if I remember right) and they don't stick to cold cement well at all.

I think I am up to my $.06 now.


----------



## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

*If I may (ahem) interject...*

I happen to know where there are a set of ATP Italia type 5s in 17x7.5 with Pilot Alpin 225/45HR-17s mounted that are for sale. The ad can be seen on the NCCBMWCCA web site classified ads and the wheels & tires can be seen in my garage!


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

LOL... hey btw the Pilot Alpins are excellent snow tires IMO. I got 'em too.


----------



## PunchIt (Dec 24, 2002)

webguy330i said:


> *
> 
> I bought a set of used wheels off a totalled 330 last year, so I got lucky. I think most people w/ 325s run steelies but with the 330 you need a 17" wheel or that one special 16" custom wheel made by TireRack... the other way to do it is to slap snow tires on your stock rims and buy aftermarkets for summer time.  *


I bought 4 17" Steels from the BMW dealership. Slapped some Blizzak 205/55s (?) on them and had lots of grip. I driving in LI last winter, picking up the girlfriend during a bad storm and I was passing pathfinders and other 4WD trucks.

Rear never lost grip unless I punched it a bit.


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Daniel said:


> *
> 
> I bought 4 17" Steels from the BMW dealership. Slapped some Blizzak 205/55s (?) on them and had lots of grip. I driving in LI last winter, picking up the girlfriend during a bad storm and I was passing pathfinders and other 4WD trucks.
> 
> Rear never lost grip unless I punched it a bit. *


Did you get the LM22's or the MZ01's? I know Al had the LM22's and said they were awesome. I like how the tread pattern is strikingly similar to that of the RE730 summer tire.


----------



## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

webguy330i said:


> *LOL... hey btw the Pilot Alpins are excellent snow tires IMO. I got 'em too. *


Webguy, I'm thinking of getting some of these...can you give me a quick review/impressions of the Alpins??

Thanks!


----------



## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

I use Potenza S-03s year round :bigpimp:


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

geomax said:


> *
> 
> Webguy, I'm thinking of getting some of these...can you give me a quick review/impressions of the Alpins??
> 
> Thanks! *


Well let's see... they're very good on light ice. They plow through slush like it's not even there. I only slid through my local ice-rink-intersection once last year, as compared to about 6x the previous year... yeah I'd say they were pretty good. 

I also got to experience the passing-the-4-wheel-drive-vehicles and I found cruising on the highway to be relatively easy, even at speeds up to 70mph with light snow fall.

The rear tires did wear a bit, but that was mostly because we went without any snow for a good month or two during the end of the winter, then got dumped on. I had to leave the tires on so a lot of dry pavement driving was done, not to mention some quick races with the local yocals. :eeps: This year I'll be putting the fronts on the back and the backs on the front. I'd estimate at least 2 more years of use of these tires, perfect for my lease. Then I'll sell 'em off. 

The road noise was actually less than the Pilot Sports I have, except on the highway. There's a noticeable difference in sidewall strength as I could no longer double the speed limits on on/off ramps (shucks) and I found braking to be slightly hindered since the tires didn't hold the front load as well (again sidewall strength issues).

Overall I'd give them a 9/10 for exceptional snow tire quality, ride comfort, noise, handling capability, and traction. Come to think of it I think I actually did go on Tirerack and contribute my $0.03.


----------



## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

webguy330i said:


> *
> Overall I'd give them a 9/10 for exceptional snow tire quality, ride comfort, noise, handling capability, and traction. Come to think of it I think I actually did go on Tirerack and contribute my $0.03. *


Thanks for the info! 

Seems the Blizzak LM-22, Dunlop Winter Sport and Pilot Alpin are all pretty much on par.

I wonder when V or Z rated snow tires will come along??


----------



## PunchIt (Dec 24, 2002)

webguy330i said:


> *
> 
> Did you get the LM22's or the MZ01's? I know Al had the LM22's and said they were awesome. I like how the tread pattern is strikingly similar to that of the RE730 summer tire.  *


I think the LM22's


----------



## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

geomax said:


> *
> 
> I wonder when V or Z rated snow tires will come along??  *


They are, what do you think 911 C4's run in Europe? Pirelli 240 (hence, 240km/h, hence, V rated) Snowsports are available too. :bigpimp:


----------



## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

I have the absolute BEST winter setup here in terms of pure snow capability.

195/65/15 Pirelli 210 Snowsports (H rated)
15 x 6.5" BMW steel wheels
15" BMW factory hubcaps

Everything together cost me less than $1k Canadian. Sure the 323's brakes may seem small relative to the other E46's, but I love 'em when it comes time to buy wheels. 

Here's a terrible pic of what the car looks like in the winter:









:bigpimp:


----------



## Robert (Dec 23, 2001)

*winter tires*

I have 17" AT type 5 with LM-22's. Decent compromise for dry, ice, and snow. Remember, no matter where you live (from alaska to florida) less than 10% of winter days are the roads are completely covered. For the 90+% of my winter driving, I want good handling.


----------



## Case (Apr 11, 2002)

*Hopefully last post on this topic*

I found a deal which sounds reasonable 225/55-16 Bridgestone Blizzak high-performance snow tires on Style 54's, $800 shipping not included.

It seems 205/55/16 is the majority vote for winter tires, however can I make it through with the 225/55's? In other words will going with 225/55's be a huge difference from the 205/50's?

The price seems right, and the rims aren't terrible looking....for a Winter setup.

Any thoughts?


----------



## RichNY (Jan 19, 2002)

*Typo on Tire Size?*

I've got 205/55-16 snows so I can't comment on how much you give up/gain with a 225 width, but be careful when comparing sizes. 225 width tires should be 225/50-16, not 225/55-16.


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Hopefully last post on this topic*



Case said:


> *I found a deal which sounds reasonable 225/55-16 Bridgestone Blizzak high-performance snow tires on Style 54's, $800 shipping not included.
> 
> It seems 205/55/16 is the majority vote for winter tires, however can I make it through with the 225/55's? In other words will going with 225/55's be a huge difference from the 205/50's?
> 
> ...


You live in Virginia... Why on Earth do you even need snows? All seasons are the most you would need around here.
It snows twice during the winter here.  Never more than a few inches, too. I'm seriously thinking about running summer tires all year round, it's just not worth months of suffering with shitty tires just in case it snows.

That said, 225 is not going to make that big a difference. I've driven a 740i with 255/45ZR18 Pilot SX tires all around in the snow. (And the Pilot SX is not exactly renowned for having any grip in the wet, much less on snow). It wasn't exactly pleasant, but it was capable.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: Re: Hopefully last post on this topic*



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *
> 
> You live in Virginia... Why on Earth do you even need snows? All seasons are the most you would need around here.
> It snows twice during the winter here.  Never more than a few inches, too. I'm seriously thinking about running summer tires all year round, it's just not worth months of suffering with shitty tires just in case it snows.
> ...


I run 225/45/17 Pilot Alpins on type 44's in the winter. No problem at all. :thumbup:


----------



## WDC330i (Feb 2, 2002)

Case:

I'm the DC area and bought snows--just in case. The 330i is my only car--and I still remember our snowy winter of, what, fiev years ago? I run Bridgestone LM22s on 17" steel wheels. They're 205/50s if I remember correctly. Very ugly wheels, but the tires are decent handling in dry winter.

I just like the idea that I can make it home if it gets a little slippery while I'm out and about....


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Hopefully last post on this topic*



Topaz330xi said:


> *
> 
> I run 225/45/17 Pilot Alpins on type 44's in the winter. No problem at all. :thumbup: *


I wish I could have found a set of type 44's... :banghead:

HOT wheels. (tm)


----------



## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Hopefully last post on this topic*



webguy330i said:


> *
> 
> I wish I could have found a set of type 44's... :banghead:
> 
> HOT wheels. (tm) *


Love the 44's!

btw - one reason to run a smaller wheel size with more rubber (ie, 205/55, etc) is that when the temp turn very cold, don't alloy wheels become more brittle, and therefor more prone to bending?


----------



## DrBimmer (Dec 23, 2001)

webguy330i said:


> *LOL... hey btw the Pilot Alpins are excellent snow tires IMO. I got 'em too. *


I agree as well. I ran the 225/50HR16 set up on my stock wheels on my 323 for two winters and it was fantastic. The car could go through almost anything! Now that I got the 325, I need to buy another set. I have the old tires sitting in my garage but I don't have 16 inch wheels to put them on. My garage looks like a tire factory- time to clean it out. I have 8 ContiSport tires (225/45ZR17) and four Michelin Pilot Artic snows (225/50HR16) as well as a set of Type 44 wheels. I will probably keep the type 44s and put some snows on those for the 325. Now I just need to get rid of the rest of the tires so I can actually move in the garage!:lmao:


----------



## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

DrBimmer said:


> *
> 
> I agree as well. I ran the 225/50HR16 set up on my stock wheels on my 323 for two winters and it was fantastic. The car could go through almost anything! Now that I got the 325, I need to buy another set. I have the old tires sitting in my garage but I don't have 16 inch wheels to put them on. My garage looks like a tire factory- time to clean it out. I have 8 ContiSport tires (225/45ZR17) and four Michelin Pilot Artic snows (225/50HR16) as well as a set of Type 44 wheels. I will probably keep the type 44s and put some snows on those for the 325. Now I just need to get rid of the rest of the tires so I can actually move in the garage!:lmao: *


I'll buy your Pilot Alpins - I have 16 wheels....PM or email me!


----------



## DrBimmer (Dec 23, 2001)

Geomax, check your PM...


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

DrBimmer said:


> *
> 
> I agree as well. I ran the 225/50HR16 set up on my stock wheels on my 323 for two winters and it was fantastic. The car could go through almost anything! Now that I got the 325, I need to buy another set. I have the old tires sitting in my garage but I don't have 16 inch wheels to put them on. My garage looks like a tire factory- time to clean it out. I have 8 ContiSport tires (225/45ZR17) and four Michelin Pilot Artic snows (225/50HR16) as well as a set of Type 44 wheels. I will probably keep the type 44s and put some snows on those for the 325. Now I just need to get rid of the rest of the tires so I can actually move in the garage!:lmao: *


Haha, I had my snows stacked up in my living room for the longest time (no garage; apartment). Did you get the Pilot Alpins or the Arctic Alpins?

geomax, I wouldn't think the cold weather would do much except keep the wheels cooler (and brakes for that matter) because you are already generating a lot of heat down there just from driving... also it would make them more susceptible to cracking or shattering rather than bending, if the temps really got that cold I suppose. 'Round here it gets down to maybe -5 degrees F.


----------



## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

Chris -

I was checking out winter tires on Tirerack and I think I'm getting 17" Mille Miglia Evo5 and the Pilot Alpines. Total cost is about $1,400. I'm still trying to figure out whether to use this money on tires or a winter beater.

How was your VK?


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Ack said:


> *Chris -
> 
> I was checking out winter tires on Tirerack and I think I'm getting 17" Mille Miglia Evo5 and the Pilot Alpines. Total cost is about $1,400. I'm still trying to figure out whether to use this money on tires or a winter beater.
> 
> How was your VK? *


VK was great, very relaxin. Good food, good times -- what more is there? 

Get wheels/tires --- you bought the car to drive it! Not for it to sit home all winter long. We already went over this.


----------



## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

webguy330i said:


> *
> 
> VK was great, very relaxin. Good food, good times -- what more is there?
> 
> Get wheels/tires --- you bought the car to drive it! Not for it to sit home all winter long. We already went over this.  *


Good to hear your VK went well. You'll have to tell me about it this weekend.

I know we talked about the beater car thing, I just needed to be knocked over the head again to make it stick. Thanks for the hit!


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Ack said:


> *
> 
> Good to hear your VK went well. You'll have to tell me about it this weekend.
> 
> I know we talked about the beater car thing, I just needed to be knocked over the head again to make it stick. Thanks for the hit!  *


I promise, if you just take the time twice (or even just once) a week to wash off the car at the do-it-yerself car wash place, you'll be rust free for a good long time. The water's heated so just bring some gloves and you'll be ok!! 

I'll give you a call about this weekend, find anymore suitable passengers for the trip?


----------



## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

webguy330i said:


> *
> 
> I promise, if you just take the time twice (or even just once) a week to wash off the car at the do-it-yerself car wash place, you'll be rust free for a good long time. The water's heated so just bring some gloves and you'll be ok!!
> 
> I'll give you a call about this weekend, find anymore suitable passengers for the trip? *


*Hijack Alert!*

I asked Liz but she'll let me know later this week. Some of my other friends are seeing about going also; with school starting this week, they aren't sure how the weekend will look. I forgot that Monday was Labor Day and we're off. This makes driving back Sunday night that much easier. We should go drinking Sunday night.


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Ack said:


> *
> 
> Hijack Alert!
> 
> I asked Liz but she'll let me know later this week. Some of my other friends are seeing about going also; with school starting this week, they aren't sure how the weekend will look. I forgot that Monday was Labor Day and we're off. This makes driving back Sunday night that much easier. We should go drinking Sunday night.  *


Damn that's right, I can never remember these random holidays for some reason. Sounds like a plan!


----------



## DrBimmer (Dec 23, 2001)

webguy330i said:


> *
> 
> Haha, I had my snows stacked up in my living room for the longest time (no garage; apartment). Did you get the Pilot Alpins or the Arctic Alpins?
> 
> *


I've had both. I ran the Pilots on the 323 and the Arctics on the 318. The Arctics had way too much play in them, the car felt wobbly and was no fun to drive. Then again, they were 14" and had a large sidewall, but I never felt that looseness with the Pirelli all seasons I had on before that were almost bald, nor the Dunlops I put on in the spring. The Pilots had an awesome feel, I could never tell I was on snow tires unless I really tried to push the car.


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

DrBimmer said:


> *
> 
> I've had both. I ran the Pilots on the 323 and the Arctics on the 318. The Arctics had way too much play in them, the car felt wobbly and was no fun to drive. Then again, they were 14" and had a large sidewall, but I never felt that looseness with the Pirelli all seasons I had on before that were almost bald, nor the Dunlops I put on in the spring. The Pilots had an awesome feel, I could never tell I was on snow tires unless I really tried to push the car. *


Word, that's exactly what I would expect from a back-to-back comparison.


----------



## Dirtboy (Apr 19, 2002)

i run snow tires over here in germany for about 5-6 months out of the year. got Nokia 225/45 R17 on Voxx rims for about 925 euro mounted and balanced. big difference from the summer tires, plus saves wear on the summers


----------



## CrazyBimmer (Jul 1, 2002)

Hey guys... 

Theres a guy with a e36 m3 that might sell me his m-contours for $500 just for the rims..... so im wondering if I should take them. They are 7.5 all around... ya think thats even too wide for winter driving? 
:dunno:


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

CrazyBimmer said:


> *Hey guys...
> 
> Theres a guy with a e36 m3 that might sell me his m-contours for $500 just for the rims..... so im wondering if I should take them. They are 7.5 all around... ya think thats even too wide for winter driving?
> :dunno: *


Naw you could pick up some 225's or even 215's for those rims no problem. Plus that's a damn good deal! I paid $600 for my set of type-73s.


----------



## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

DrBimmer said:


> *
> The Pilots had an awesome feel, I could never tell I was on snow tires unless I really tried to push the car. *


Well, thats good to hear!

Nice to meet your Dad the other day. Real nice guy!


----------



## DISCOBOY1 (Jan 8, 2002)

If some are willing to cross the border, Yokohama just came out with a great winter tire, the AVS V901 this tire looks great and available in V rated speed. You have to get it in Canada BC it's not available in the US


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

I thought I read on a thread on e46fanatics that you couldn't use 16 inch wheels because they wouldn't fit over the brake calipers. Is that not correct?


----------



## FrancisK (Apr 8, 2002)

berford said:


> *I thought I read on a thread on e46fanatics that you couldn't use 16 inch wheels because they wouldn't fit over the brake calipers. Is that not correct? *


Yes (it won't fit), unless you got some special 16" from tire rack, then it will fit your 330. Otherwise you need to go with 17".


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Thanks. I wasn't planning on getting 16 inch wheels, but I wanted to make sure what the options were. Others should beware, too.


----------



## grim reaper (Jul 17, 2002)

*installation of snow tires*

do you have to go to a BMW dealer to have the snow tires & rims installed? If you went to a regular tire center, would that void the warranty?


----------



## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: installation of snow tires*



grim reaper said:


> *do you have to go to a BMW dealer to have the snow tires & rims installed? If you went to a regular tire center, would that void the warranty? *


No you can install them yourself, but you'll need to have the dealership or a tire place mount the tires on the wheels. Average cost is $15/wheel.


----------



## DISCOBOY1 (Jan 8, 2002)

You can put any 16" wheels on a 323/325


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Ah, in the brochure I see that the brake diameters are an inch smaller on the 325 than on the 330. So the advice has to destinguish between which model we're talking about. Good call, Discoboy.


----------



## FrancisK (Apr 8, 2002)

DISCOBOY1 said:


> *You can put any 16" wheels on a 323/325 *


325/323 with 16" is no problem... because the stardard wheels on 325 is 16"


----------

