# What does the C in 330ci mean



## xice (Dec 29, 2005)

Hi guys, always wanted 2 know..... what is the C in 330Ci... (or all 3 series for that matter)

all i can tell that is a C on the back costs more


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

C = coupe


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

xice said:


> Hi guys, always wanted 2 know..... what is the C in 330Ci... (or all 3 series for that matter)
> 
> all i can tell that is a C on the back costs more


 :slap:

Ok, since you're new I'll let that one slide, just don't start another thread asking what the "i" means or what "BMW" stands for, OK?


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## xice (Dec 29, 2005)

lol  that was an easy one 

always been interested, but really not a bimmer fan. 
Dont mind everything else coming out of germany and the M'z


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## racermat (Feb 22, 2004)

c = costly, just like you thought


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## xice (Dec 29, 2005)

OK next question...

What is the c in 635csi
and what is the t in 318ti

thx


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

xice said:


> OK next question...
> 
> What is the c in 635csi
> and what is the t in 318ti
> ...


C= Coupe
I= Fuel Injected
D = Diesel
X= All wheel drive
L = Long/stretched version
T= Tiny :dunno: I think it means hatchback
S = Not used anymore, but the CSI, meant coupe, sport, injected.

The 645ci is now a 650i, they dropped the c. Why? Who knows, maybe because all 6 series are coupes and it was redundant.


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> T= Tiny :dunno: I think it means hatchback


t = touring



chuck92103 said:


> S = Not used anymore, but the CSI, meant coupe, sport, injected.


CSI? You have been watching too much CBS. The CSL moniker is alive and well after a nearly 30 year hiatus (3.0 CSL to E46 M3 CSL). The CSL = Coupe, Sport, Light.

There is rumors of a new M6 CSL.


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

Bruce said:


> t = touring
> 
> CSI? You have been watching too much CBS. The CSL moniker is alive and well after a nearly 30 year hiatus (3.0 CSL to E46 M3 CSL). The CSL = Coupe, Sport, Light.
> 
> There is rumors of a new M6 CSL.


CSI from the old 635Csi.

Ah you are right, forgot about the CSL, although I thought he was referring to the badge on the back. They don't put CSL on the back do they?

There are several other scenarios that don't make it to the badge. Like a 330 convertible is really a 330Cic.

Also, Touring is for the wagon. Is the ti considered a wagon as well?


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

The M3 CSL does have a CSL badge. #14 here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL95&mospid=47622&btnr=51_3722&hg=51&fg=20

dunno on why touring is used for the wagons and the compact. tii on the 2002tii meant touring international injected


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

Bruce said:


> The M3 CSL does have a CSL badge. #14 here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL95&mospid=47622&btnr=51_3722&hg=51&fg=20
> 
> dunno on why touring is used for the wagons and the compact. tii on the 2002tii meant touring international injected


Interesting. I never have seen a CSL. I suspect they are rare.


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1100


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> Interesting. I never have seen a CSL. I suspect they are rare.


And you never will unless you get lucky on a trip to Europe, the Middle East or Asia/Australia. They were never imported to the US.


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## L Seca (Apr 22, 2005)

chuck92103 said:


> CSI from the old 635Csi.
> 
> Ah you are right, forgot about the CSL, although I thought he was referring to the badge on the back. They don't put CSL on the back do they?


Yep, they do. But the lettering is pretty small. Here are some CSL's from the Nurburgring Driving Schools in '04 and '05. :thumbup:


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## ___lk___ (Dec 21, 2001)

Bruce said:


> CSI? You have been watching too much CBS.


http://images.google.com/images?q=635csi


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

L Seca said:


> Yep, they do. But the lettering is pretty small. Here are some CSL's from the Nurburgring Driving Schools in '04 and '05. :thumbup:


Looks cheesey with the CSL on the back. Should have left well enough alone.


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## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

chuck92103 said:


> T= Tiny :dunno: I think it means hatchback


My 530xiT is definitely not tiny
T=touring=wagon


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

tcoz said:


> My 530xiT is definitely not tiny
> T=touring=wagon


Wrong, you're all wrong, I tell you 

"t" in the context of Touring is used these days by North American dealers and owners to denote the cars conveniently and with brevity. Tourings are not badged "t". The E36 318ti and 323ti compacts were badged "t", but the 316i compact was not, and none of them was a touring in the modern sense despite sharing a strong design link with the 2000 touring (3-door, not a wagon) from the late '60s. The 318tds had a "t" in the badge, but _that_ "t" stood for "turbo".

At a guess, I would say the "t" of 318ti and 323ti (and, later of all the E46 compacts) was supposed to recall the sporting ti and tii badges of the '60s and '70s, when t stood for "touring" in the grand touring sense, not the five-door sense. Touring as a brand was revived in 1986 for the E30 touring (five-door) which was not badged t either, except for the 324td but that "t" also stood for "turbo", not "touring", since the 324td was also available in saloon form.

Still with me 

So I suppose in a way, it does stand for touring. But the "t" applied the E36 compact (as in "ti") informally denoted 4 valves per cylinder, in European markets. As the US only got one kind of compact, the "t" became superfluous in this context, so now it serves to annoy and confuse people like you and me.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> Wrong, you're all wrong, I tell you
> 
> "t" in the context of Touring is used these days by North American dealers and owners to denote the cars conveniently and with brevity. Tourings are not badged "t". The E36 318ti and 323ti compacts were badged "t", but the 316i compact was not, and none of them was a touring in the modern sense despite sharing a strong design link with the 2000 touring (3-door, not a wagon) from the late '60s. The 318tds had a "t" in the badge, but _that_ "t" stood for "turbo".
> 
> ...


 I was getting ready to explain but you did a great job...:thumbup:


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## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

andy_thomas said:


> Wrong, you're all wrong, I tell you
> 
> "t" in the context of Touring is used these days by North American dealers and owners to denote the cars conveniently and with brevity. Tourings are not badged "t". The E36 318ti and 323ti compacts were badged "t", but the 316i compact was not, and none of them was a touring in the modern sense despite sharing a strong design link with the 2000 touring (3-door, not a wagon) from the late '60s. The 318tds had a "t" in the badge, but _that_ "t" stood for "turbo".
> 
> ...


I stand corrected...and also utterly confused. Are you saying that "t" has in the past stood for "turbo" and/or "touring" and now definitely stands for "touring", but BMW's definitition of "touring" has not always been the same? Yikes!


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Touring can mean a heatchback, which is why 318ti is named such. ti and tii in 2002 terms (car not year) also meant touring, which obvisouly meant something different then. Touring Improved. Touring Improved Injected.

t also still stands for turbo, but we don't get diesels in the US, so we don't see it, but you do the rest of the world. d for diesel, td for turbo diesel, and tds for turbo diesel sport. US doesn't get the sport models any longed. But E30 and E36 did come in s models.

C can stand for coupe or for cabriolet (convertible) Depending on where it comes. Mad eno sense using it in the 6 series naming, since they were all coupes, but that went back to the older big coupes 3.0C, 3.0 CS.

BMW does NOT have a true standard for naming, they just do things seemling on a whim.


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## 200mph (Dec 26, 2005)

*C is for...*

Terry, 
The E46 convertibles are "Cic"... AFAIK, the capital C means that the car is a Coupe (really a hardtop, as there are no window frames or B pillars) chassis with 2 doors, and the small c stands for convertible.

Nice spec rec... I owned and raced #520 for around ten years or so, and kept an early two-digit car (forget the chassis#) as a backup/spare.
Mike


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

tcoz said:


> I stand corrected...and also utterly confused. Are you saying that "t" has in the past stood for "turbo" and/or "touring" and now definitely stands for "touring", but BMW's definitition of "touring" has not always been the same? Yikes!


Almost. I think !

The first time "t" appeared in what you might call the modern BMW era (so, in about 1968) "t" stood for "touring" in the "grand touring" sense.

When the first BMW touring appeared (as a 3-door hatch based on the 2000), it was badged "2000 touring", all seven letters.

When "t" next appeared in about 1983, it stood for "turbo" (524td, 324td).

When the BMW five-door arrived, it was branded a "Touring" but badged no differently to the four-door.

When the compact arrived, in the same form factor as the _original_ 2000 touring, it was given various badges depending on engine (316i, 318ti, 323ti, 318tds). In this context, the "t" could mean anything, but the badge did evoke memories of the various tweaked 1600ti, 1800ti and 2000ti cars of the late '60s.

With the E46 compact, all of them were badged t-something (316ti, 318ti, 318td, 320td, 325ti). But rather confusingly, The E46 Touring cars (indeed all BMW five-door cars since 1986) have never been badged with a "t".

Outside of BMW's inconsistent nomenclature, owners often use a "t" (or "T") suffix to denote them conveniently in conversation, as they use "c" (or "C") to denote a convertible.

Basically, there's no rule. If you go looking for one, your head explodes.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

200mph said:


> Terry,
> The E46 convertibles are "Cic"... AFAIK, the capital C means that the car is a Coupe (really a hardtop, as there are no window frames or B pillars) chassis with 2 doors, and the small c stands for convertible.
> 
> Nice spec rec... I owned and raced #520 for around ten years or so, and kept an early two-digit car (forget the chassis#) as a backup/spare.
> Mike


Well that changes. The E30 cabs were 3XXic models.  But yes, typiclaly the big C is Coupe, the little c is cabriolet.

BTW the car in my pic is NOT my car.  The car in the pic was one I rented in 04 to run the double regional at VIR to just keep my license (got it through a Daly school). Rented a different car for the 05 double at VIR, decided it made more sense to buy and bought the car I rented in 05. I have to change that pic. 

In fact this weekend starts fiberglass repair. I car got dropped off last night. I let the local CSR take care of the car. Nice thing is, I don't have to worry about a spare car, he has spares at most races.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

But wasn't the E46 3 series touring badges with a t, ie 325Xit in the US?


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