# Does Zaino leather conditioner soften the leather ?



## jaytone (Nov 29, 2008)

I read on Zaino site all the testimonials about their conditioner and most praise the smell, but none really say if it softens the leather.
Other than the smell, how good is the conditioner in softening the leather


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Jay

Are you trying to revive your leather? or just get your leather conditioned

I have not used the Zaino leather product but I highly doubt that it will soften the leather.

Most all leather conditioners on the market are for maintamince not restoration

That said read about leatherique if you are looking for a restoration product or one that will clean very deep


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## gmblack3 (Mar 14, 2008)

I've been using the Zaino Z9/Z10 for over 6 years. The Z10 will soften the leather, maybe not the extent of Leatherique which I have also been using for a long time.


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## jaytone (Nov 29, 2008)

Can you use Zaino then later use Leatherique ? Since it wont be hot here for another few months, I was thinking of using Zaino for now and then in the summer trying Leatherique.
The leather is in very good shape for a 99 and is somewhat soft now. 
My thought was to at least get some type of conditioner on now (Zaino) and use leatherique a few months from now.
Would that be ok to do ?

P.S. I just bought the 99 528 which has always been garaged and only has 49,000 miles on it. The color of the leather is black if that matters. 
Thanks


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

jaytone said:


> Can you use Zaino then later use Leatherique ? Since it wont be hot here for another few months, I was thinking of using Zaino for now and then in the summer trying Leatherique.
> The leather is in very good shape for a 99 and is somewhat soft now.
> My thought was to at least get some type of conditioner on now (Zaino) and use leatherique a few months from now.
> Would that be ok to do ?
> ...


On a 99 I would be looking at a full leatherique treatment this is a deep cleaning the leather can use it. Read the Leatherique site for application temps. You could apply the Zaino now but I don't really think its needed IMO, the deep cleaning is where you should start, two or three months is not going to hurt the car


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

I really like Zaino products, but have not tried Z10. I plan to order some the next time I order other things. I've heard great things about Z10, but I would be very surprised if it softens the leather. If you really want to soften leather, Leatherique would be my suggestion. But even Leatherique has it's limitations...


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## adie modo (Apr 1, 2010)

*home made leather care*

iv got a biker friend so leather care is his world my seats are black and had a few scuffs and the dye had fadded round the edges,he said to try bees wax with olive oil to soften it up and a few drops of essentail orange oil.your looking for the same kind of paste as shose polish, idid this and its works a treat softens conditions and some how brings the colour back try it i found it works better than the numerous products i spent silly money one:thumbup:


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

adie modo said:


> iv got a biker friend so leather care is his world my seats are black and had a few scuffs and the dye had fadded round the edges,he said to try bees wax with olive oil to soften it up and a few drops of essentail orange oil.your looking for the same kind of paste as shose polish, idid this and its works a treat softens conditions and some how brings the colour back try it i found it works better than the numerous products i spent silly money one:thumbup:


On a small scale I could see this working, but not on the whole inside seating area of a car


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

I just started using the Zaino Z9/Z10 system and am very happy with it. I spray on the Z9 and massage it into the leather, you could see the old BMW leather treatment (waxlike) coming off as I rubbed it in, then wiped off the extra (per the instructions), the applied the Z10, no wiping off but that too was massaged into the leather with a Zaino white cotton applicator. Worked like a champ, I do think the Z9 softened things up but not like it sounds like the leatherique does. My leather is pretty new feeling so I did not want to strip it too deeply and yes the Zaino does smell as good as everyone says... well worth it IMO.


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

*Myth buster -* Myth buster - many leather products market themselves on how they feed or condition leather. In fact your car's leather seats are first coated with a very fine emulsion (pigmentation) to give them the desired colour and then a clear urethane coating. So for best longevity you should be keeping that coating hydrated and as well protected as possible.

These same companies would also have you believe you should feed your car's urethane leather finish with olive, cantaloupe, sunflower and coconut oils, or lanolin. These products even if they were necessary cannot permeate the urethane coating. Unless you brought a specific premium natural leather package - you are dealing with the finished protective coating and not with the leather hide itself.


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

TOGWT said:


> *Myth buster -* Myth buster - many leather products market themselves on how they feed or condition leather. In fact your car's leather seats are first coated with a very fine emulsion (pigmentation) to give them the desired colour and then a clear urethane coating. So for best longevity you should be keeping that coating hydrated and as well protected as possible.
> 
> These same companies would also have you believe you should feed your car's urethane leather finish with olive, cantaloupe, sunflower and coconut oils, or lanolin. These products even if they were necessary cannot permeate the urethane coating. Unless you brought a specific premium natural leather package - you are dealing with the finished protective coating and not with the leather hide itself.


That makes total sense as there is tough coating on my leather that I'm intentionally not trying to penetrate. My thought is that if this coating (almost looks like a matte finish when clean in reflections) is still in tact, maintain it with sun-screen and moisture vs. blast through it with deep cleaning oils... maybe a different approach when this coating is cracked and worn to the point you are exposing the inner leather material.

One thing I notice with my car is that 2002 magazine pictures of an e39 leather "Montana" interior, the seats have definite puckers on the edges. My "puckers" have for the most part smoothed / tightened out with age (see pics below), there are a few on the headrests and here and there where they must have been the deepest. Wondering if others have the same situation, was this planned by BMW due to sun / UV exposure with age?

Also, the deep grain on the drivers seat where your butt goes is smoother then the non-worn headrests / seat sides. Is there a way to recover the grain in these areas or is that just what they will do. After just 60,000 miles the drivers bolster where you rub getting in and out is even smoother, you can see a pattern of square pin hole dots that must be from when they processed the leather, again, nothing we can do to better protect these areas, is there? I imagine on cars with 150,000 this gets pretty bad.


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## bmw-hoya (Sep 11, 2007)

jaytone said:


> I read on Zaino site all the testimonials about their conditioner and most praise the smell, but none really say if it softens the leather.
> Other than the smell, how good is the conditioner in softening the leather


I just applied z10 on my car's leather tonight, and have done so every 6 months or so. I have been using it for over 2 years.

IMHO, z10 is great at protecting the leather from sunlight and stains, smells great, but it is not very good at softening leather.

If soft leather is your top concern, you may want to try another leather product. Just my 2cents.


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

bmw-hoya said:


> I just applied z10 on my car's leather tonight, and have done so every 6 months or so. I have been using it for over 2 years.
> 
> IMHO, z10 is great at protecting the leather from sunlight and stains, smells great, but it is not very good at softening leather.
> 
> If soft leather is your top concern, you may want to try another leather product. Just my 2cents.


100% agree, I think it is designed to NOT penetrate through the clear coat to a point that it is broken up and "soft". Our leather seats were fairly stiff when brand new and over time, soften due to break down. the Zaino cleaner / conditioner removes soil and "conditions" the leather but not to the extreme I've seen on some posts using Leatherique to bring back what look like destroyed leather seats.


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

*Leather Upholstery and Trim Surface Identification *

The most important thing to find out before you attempt to clean or care for something is to ascertain what the material is made from. Much the same is true if you're trying to remove a stain, what caused the stain and what is the material you are trying to remove the stain from. Formulate a detailing plan, then utilize proper detailing techniques, combined with quality products is what makes a details outcome successful.

It is important to be able to recognise the different materials used for vehicle upholstery as some OEM use different materials for the various surfaces (i.e. perforated leather for the seating areas, PVC bolsters and seat backs) Before choosing a product to clean or maintain interior surfaces you must be certain of the material used and wither it is Urethane covered or pigmented Aniline, as the correct care product requirements are vastly different.

Once you've correctly identified the leather and / or the applied finish applicable to your vehicle's upholstery, it's easier to select suitable products / methods (one size fits all is just a vendor's marketing myth) Leather however finished has to allow the movement of moisture back and forth (transpiration) so the use of water- based cleaners and protectors will maintain hydration, which is essential to keeping it in pristine condition.

_To identify the material used; (N-Nubuck / Alcantara®) (A-Aniline / Non-Coated) (P-Protected / Coated)_

(a)	*Natural leather *(A-Aniline / Non-Coated) Aniline Leather is coloured all the way through with a transparent dye. The effect is applied by immersing the leather in a dye bath. Because the finish is transparent and shows the natural markings of the leather, only top quality hides can be used. It is absorbent and has a random shade colours and grain pattern; lightly scratch the surface to see if it reveals a lighter colour, water drops will darken its colour (temporarily).(See also King Ranch Leather)

(b)	*Protected leather *(Pigmented) (P-Protected / Coated) - by slightly scratching it with your nail, if it changes to a darker / lighter shade, it is unprotected (i.e. how suede changes colour depending on the fibres' orientation). If this has little effect it's protected.

If water 'beads' on the surface, or if cleaners and conditioners remain on the surface, it's (polyurethane) protected leather as liquids will not penetrate this type of surface; it will also have an even shine. Remember you are dealing with the finished polyurethane coating on the leather and not with the leather hide itself.

(c)	*Nubuck, Alcantara® *(N-Nubuck / Alcantara® ) - are top-grain cattle hide leather that has been sanded or buffed on the grain side, or outside, to give a slight nap of short protein fibres, producing a velvet-like surface. Alcantara® is a non-organic (synthetic) material. Both materials are very soft to the touch and will scratch or scuff very easily; water drops will darken the surface, but it returns to its original colour after drying.

(d)	*Nappa Leather* (A-Aniline // Non-Coated ) ***8211; for leather used in autos, Nappa is a term that is used to denote a high quality leather, it's a very soft, absorbent full grain (uncoated) and usually tanned with alum and chromium salts and dyed throughout, water drops will darken its colour (temporarily).

(e)	*Vinyl -* is a non-organic (synthetic) material that has an even, almost repeating pattern. The depth of the lines within the grain on vinyl is also consistent, while the same lines on leather will vary; it is also usually smooth and soft to the touch. water drops will remain (unchanged) on its surface
The common denominator for all the above surface finishes is that they all require specific products in accordance with the finish; not forgetting protection from ultra violet (UV) radiation


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

So my 2002 530i "Montana" leather I would think is your b) protected leather above as it has a "hard" finish to it that was likely that way to be wear resistant. Seems like some of the tan seats may have been this same leather but due to the color and wear, they crease revealing the inner unprotected parts of the hide... not sure if there is one "best" for good condition protected leather... opinions? I'm happiest thus far with the Zaino on mine.


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## Orionsb (Oct 30, 2009)

I'll apologize up front - I'm very new to my BMW ownership and honestly, cannot find the links to tell me what type of leather material I have. 1997 Z3 Roadster, two-toned and dual textured tan interior. I really just want something to protect it from the sun and keep the wood & dash clean. Am guessing from what I'm reading, Zaino & Leatherique are available only on-line? If I'm in the wrong link, also please direct me. 

Cheers


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

Orionsb said:


> I'll apologize up front - I'm very new to my BMW ownership and honestly, cannot find the links to tell me what type of leather material I have. 1997 Z3 Roadster, two-toned and dual textured tan interior. I really just want something to protect it from the sun and keep the wood & dash clean. Am guessing from what I'm reading, Zaino & Leatherique are available only on-line? If I'm in the wrong link, also please direct me.
> 
> Cheers


Zaino is only online, great NJ products... I just bought the complete line and would suggest all of them... wood polish I use pledge from BJs. Seats, the Zaino gives you UV protection and great smell... for dash 3M 303 (west marine up here) gives you 40 SPF UV... all sorts of opinions here which is good, these are what I'm using now and have tried lots of products.


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## guaping (Dec 27, 2009)

I know the question is about Zaino (I have used Zaino Z2, Z6, Z8 ZPC on my e39 since day 1, but not the leather treatment), and I don't mean to jack the thread. I have recently used Griot's leather conditioner on the seats, but after a few days it has left a whitish residue. I am planning to apply Aerospace 303 on it when I have the chance. Has anybody had experience doing this? Thanks in advance.


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

guaping said:


> I know the question is about Zaino (I have used Zaino Z2, Z6, Z8 ZPC on my e39 since day 1, but not the leather treatment), and I don't mean to jack the thread. I have recently used Griot's leather conditioner on the seats, but after a few days it has left a whitish residue. I am planning to apply Aerospace 303 on it when I have the chance. Has anybody had experience doing this? Thanks in advance.


I used the BMW leather treatment kit prior the Zaino Z9/Z10 application. When I cleaned / conditioned my seats with the Z9 (spray mist) and rubbed it in by hand, the Z9 pulled up little globs of white waxy residue from the previous product(s). I have no experience with the Griot's but suspect it may be similar to the BMW product that leaves a waxy residue. I use the 303 on my rubber, I would not put that on my seats, it is too slippery, shiny for my tastes.


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## thecushion (Mar 22, 2010)

I have black Montana leather and am going with Zaino. Heard its good stuff so hay what the hell...


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

TOGWT said:


> *Leather Upholstery and Trim Surface Identification *
> 
> The most important thing to find out before you attempt to clean or care for something is to ascertain what the material is made from. Much the same is true if you're trying to remove a stain, what caused the stain and what is the material you are trying to remove the stain from. Formulate a detailing plan, then utilize proper detailing techniques, combined with quality products is what makes a details outcome successful.
> 
> ...


TOGWT, you seem like the guy who knows better than to go into a steakhouse and order seafood. It seems that Nappa is the best leather to own. Maintaining it with common sense products that don't cost an arm and a leg and just providing TLC. I think I have decided the Zaino crew is brainwashed into buying the latest NASA approved top secret product because they think their car requires it. I imagine most M3's have the protected leather. What a waste. I feel sure mine doesn't have Nappa otherwise I would smell it everytime I enter the cabin. Not to mention the suppleness. So I'm thinking Saddle Soap and Neatsfoot Oil on abrasions and Murphy's to clean it occasionally. Your thoughts.


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

compusatman said:


> TOGWT, you seem like the guy who knows better than to go into a steakhouse and order seafood. It seems that Nappa is the best leather to own. Maintaining it with common sense products that don't cost an arm and a leg and just providing TLC. I think I have decided the Zaino crew is brainwashed into buying the latest NASA approved top secret product because they think their car requires it. I imagine most M3's have the protected leather. What a waste. I feel sure mine doesn't have Nappa otherwise I would smell it everytime I enter the cabin. Not to mention the suppleness. So I'm thinking Saddle Soap and Neatsfoot Oil on abrasions and Murphy's to clean it occasionally. Your thoughts.


For the cost of a bottle of Zaino Z9/Z10 vs. the risk of a "home made" solution, Zaino seems like cheap insurance. I simply want a better understanding of how to best maintain our leather, $10-$20 for the product seems like a deal (I've done mine 2x already with the Zaino and have used 1/8 of the bottle).


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

Hooray, I understand your thinking. However, (if) I have the protected leather in my M3 then it seems pointless to use anything that conditions leather on the surface because the surface is not leather. It is a urathane coating of sorts as I understand. Maybe I'm drifting but that tells me that a leather conditioner is a waste of money. And from reading, it seems that the most compelling reason to buy Zaino conditioner is for the smell. Not enough of a reason for me. If I had bought the M new and know what I know now I never would have bought the protected leather. I would have bought Nappa. It seems to me that if Zaino were truly made for the protected leather then someone knowledgeable would have spoken up by now. Not. The only poster that has had anything worthwhile to say about leather is TOGWT. His post has prompted me to educate myself on the subject instead to just take the marketing advise of all the Zaino community.


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

compusatman said:


> Hooray, I understand your thinking. However, (if) I have the protected leather in my M3 then it seems pointless to use anything that conditions leather on the surface because the surface is not leather. It is a urathane coating of sorts as I understand. Maybe I'm drifting but that tells me that a leather conditioner is a waste of money. And from reading, it seems that the most compelling reason to buy Zaino conditioner is for the smell. Not enough of a reason for me. If I had bought the M new and know what I know now I never would have bought the protected leather. I would have bought Nappa. It seems to me that if Zaino were truly made for the protected leather then someone knowledgeable would have spoken up by now. Not. The only poster that has had anything worthwhile to say about leather is TOGWT. His post has prompted me to educate myself on the subject instead to just take the marketing advise of all the Zaino community.


Logical thinking, good points, but... I'm not convinced yet that coated leather is a "solid" protective layer as much as a wear improver. If that were the case, you would use windex on it and have 30 year perfect, crease free seats, which is not the case. I dont know about you, but my seats are in smokin' good shape (59,000 miles, must have been zero passengers), but still the drivers seat has some lines in it and the other seats do absorb the conditioners. Under that few micron thick layer of coating is animal hide with all sorts of pores in it. I suspect the leather "products", regardless of the brand are going into the hide vs. sitting on the surface, they also provide UV protection (Zaino is SPF 40) so coating or not, the sun stays at bay. I'll call the Zaino number on the bottle 732-833-8800 and ask them, worth noting, BMW themselves sells a leather kit with all the same "leather" oils... whats up with that!

Ps. the Zaino smell is worth it...


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

Hooray, I have been all over the web sites for Auto Geek, Zaino, Leatherique, Connolly's, Griot's, virtually all of them. The only one that mentions the words "Protected Leather" is..."1Z". And they explaned that their product is engineered specifically for coated leather. It's one product applied 2 or 3 times a year and it's as simple as that. No rocket science, no voodoo, just simple, uncomplicated, uncluttered common sense care. The point is that "protected leather" is engineered to eliminate all the maintenence that everyone on here is so drastically searching to perform. And 99% percent of all leather sold for things like auto intereiors is protected. It's amazing...most M owners on here think that there is a special formulation for each and every square inch of their automobile. And the higher the price and the better it smells the better they think it works. Our women buy $40 dollar a bottle shampoo while we complain that the $.99 cent shampoo works just fine. We are just as gullable about the M and it's maintenence. The products you people are buying might as well be in a spray bottle that you just spray on your clothes because that is where it is going. Incredible. Now after I have my chemist friend tell me what is in 1Z I guarantee you that I will find a $2 dollar common sense product that will fair just fine. And probably I can make it at home with the likes of vinegar, lemon juice, borax, and citrus oil. And once I get it right I will add just the right aroma and sell it in a titanium pump pressureized spray container for say $150 bucks and then sell refills to returning customers for a repeat customer price. What a total waste of time.


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

I traveled in a friends 7 series with Nappa leather. It was like satin sheets. It's all I can do now to sit in my protected leather. I would prefer cloth. Oh well live and learn.


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## Hooray! (Dec 20, 2009)

compusatman said:


> Hooray, I have been all over the web sites for Auto Geek, Zaino, Leatherique, Connolly's, Griot's, virtually all of them. The only one that mentions the words "Protected Leather" is..."1Z". And they explaned that their product is engineered specifically for coated leather. It's one product applied 2 or 3 times a year and it's as simple as that. No rocket science, no voodoo, just simple, uncomplicated, uncluttered common sense care. The point is that "protected leather" is engineered to eliminate all the maintenence that everyone on here is so drastically searching to perform. And 99% percent of all leather sold for things like auto intereiors is protected. It's amazing...most M owners on here think that there is a special formulation for each and every square inch of their automobile. And the higher the price and the better it smells the better they think it works. Our women buy $40 dollar a bottle shampoo while we complain that the $.99 cent shampoo works just fine. We are just as gullable about the M and it's maintenence. The products you people are buying might as well be in a spray bottle that you just spray on your clothes because that is where it is going. Incredible. Now after I have my chemist friend tell me what is in 1Z I guarantee you that I will find a $2 dollar common sense product that will fair just fine. And probably I can make it at home with the likes of vinegar, lemon juice, borax, and citrus oil. And once I get it right I will add just the right aroma and sell it in a titanium pump pressureized spray container for say $150 bucks and then sell refills to returning customers for a repeat customer price. What a total waste of time.


What is "1Z", just saw that name on a dash post too. I will follow up with Zaino on the phone, thus far, like the results... bottom line, there are some smokin' products out there to get that extra 5% but you are right, there are some dime store products that will get you 90% there... I guess that extra 5-10% is called "passion" and a thick wallet... I know I keep buying #$it for my car, my little piece of sanity in an insane world!


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

Hurray, "1Z" is a German product. It is not cheap. I don't know if it is any better than Zaino. As well, I don't know the ingredients yet. It can be found at AutoGeek. Just Google "1Z" and you will get their website. As far as the cracks in protected leather...I don't believe that is preventable. Because of the urethane coating. The coating is going to prevent any treatment from penetrating the leather...just like it prevents other things such as spills from penetrating the leather. I'm not saying to just let it go but I really don't see these expensive treatments doing anything special either. I have studied most of the "Detailer" posts and videos and they all use all the expensive products. None of them have proven why. I think they just use them to justify the cost of the service. Because when a client picks up their car and they see the seats gleaming the wow factor is built in. Even if it is just going to treat their clothing instead of the seats. Still researching...


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

Most detailers have learned which products work best for different applications. Trying to reverse engineer products to save a couple bucks is a little over the top...don't ya think?


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

Bill, do you have leather? Is it protected? What do you use?


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

compusatman said:


> Bill, do you have leather? Is it protected? What do you use?


I use Leatherique, or a damp MF (water) cloth. But I will try Zaino next time I order something from them.


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## compusatman (Apr 14, 2010)

Using Leatheriqe I presume means you have Nappa. Do you have Nappa or protected leather?


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