# Oil Change



## sunilsf (Sep 22, 2003)

johnnygraphic said:


> Not to derail this too much, but, what is your guy's take on manual tranny change? Some people say to do it very early (5k miles?) due to any 'grinding' in the manual transmission from a new driver (Yes, I've done it a few times...).
> 
> Johnny


There's an article in one of the magazines this month saying to change differential and (manual) transmission fluid every 30K miles. BMW recommends changing these every 60K miles.


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

I have a similar question on the same topic... my 330cic is almost a year old (January 22), and I have scheduled an annual service with my dealer. I drive very few miles on my car, it just turned 3800 miles yesterday (75F outside and crystal clear over the weekend ). 

The "miles to service" indicator when I start still says over 10,000 miles to go... but I have no intention of waiting over two more years to get the oil changed! I know that BMW allows servicing at annual intervals instead of the mileage interval, which is why I scheduled the appointment. But I have heard some discussion on the boards before about an "oil change" vs. an "oil service." What is the difference? What will they do on my car after 1 year but low mileage? Can I request one over the other? Should I?

Thanks!

--J.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

SLO Town, we've had the numerous oil discussions on this forum so I'm gonna make it short. The part of your owners manual about oil was written in 1999 when BMW started selling E46s. At that time there was no other oil on the US market that would meet BMW specs other than their own, hence the recommendation of the widely available and popular Mobil1 or Valvoline, the official supplier for BMW at the time.

As far as all synthetic oils being adequate it all depends on driving conditions. You can put mineral oil in and it won't destroy your engine as long as you change it frequently and don't put any stress on the engine. The major part of the BMW specification is that the oil has to be suited for extended intervals, the spec itself is based on ACEA A3/B3 specs. Approved oils are simply more robust, with higher High Temperature/High Shear viscosity numbers and additive package better suited to fight acid build up.



> The most important thing in your oil choice is viscosity. I'm not saying to do this, but I'll bet any quality synthetic in a 5w-30, 10w-30, 0w40, or 5w-40 would not cause any problems. Most certainly you wouldn't want to run a 10w-30 or 5w-40 in the dead of winter in a cold climate, but that oil would probably be a good choice in mild climates where cold starts are not an issue. I've read that some members of the forum and others use 5w-50 or 15w-50, and I think that would be a mistake (as would 0w-20 or 0w-30).


I think you don't have a clear understanding of oil viscosity or SAE numbers for multi-grade oils. How running a 5W-30 oil in a dead of winter in a cold climate is different from running 5W-40? Both have the same Winter number (5) which means they will both behave like 5W oil at cold temperatures. Also, please explain to me why is it a mistake to run 0W-30 oil? I did it with an oil that met BMW LL-01 specs and have oil analysis to prove that it did very well.

BMW doesn't use special break-in oils but the cars that are shipped here from Germany are filled with a better oil than what we can buy here, I'd leave it for at least initial break-in period.


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## SLO Town (Oct 18, 2003)

F1Crazy said:


> SLO Town, we've had the numerous oil discussions on this forum so I'm gonna make it short. The part of your owners manual about oil was written in 1999 when BMW started selling E46s. At that time there was no other oil on the US market that would meet BMW specs other than their own, hence the recommendation of the widely available and popular Mobil1 or Valvoline, the official supplier for BMW at the time.
> 
> As far as all synthetic oils being adequate it all depends on driving conditions. You can put mineral oil in and it won't destroy your engine as long as you change it frequently and don't put any stress on the engine. The major part of the BMW specification is that the oil has to be suited for extended intervals, the spec itself is based on ACEA A3/B3 specs. Approved oils are simply more robust, with higher High Temperature/High Shear viscosity numbers and additive package better suited to fight acid build up.
> 
> ...


Easy now. No need to get huffy and accuse me of not understanding various lubrication related bits.

First, the Service and Warranty booklet I refer to has a print date of September 2002, and the throughput the test mentions the 2003 model year. To say this booklet is based in 1999 info would not appear to be correct.

I have been on this forum, as well as Roadfly and E46 Fanatics, and am fully aware of the many discussions there have been on engine oil, brake pads (or as some would say "break" pads), etc.

The context of my answer, and the usual context of many people who ask engine oil related questions is, "what oil can I use that will not void my warranty". That was the context of my answer. I agree with you that one's choices of suitable oil is much larger than BMW would like you to believe.

Don't tell me I don't understand viscosity and what "5w" means. I am fully aware of the meaning. However, in my reply I wasn't interested in writing a book on oil viscosity, etc. Kind of like what you said when you said you wanted "to keep it short".

In your threads you keep mentioning the ACEA A3/B3 specs. Where does BMW say that is a requirement? If you read official BMW documentation carefully, the only spec they mention is that the oil be a 5w-30 or 5w-40 and be SJ rated.

You've done alot of surfing and researching, and I think that's great.

My only complaints are that you are stating certain things as being official BMW statements (e.g the ACEA ratings). Once again, BMW makes no mention of ACEA ratings. Secondly, you assume people who have slightly different opinion than you don't know what they're talking about.

I'm and old guy and have been around alot longer that you might think. I've owned, driven, and worked on everything from 1200cc VW motors to V12s (try putting a clutch in a V12 E-type - been there, done that - patience is virtue).

I've also been intimately involved with SCCA racing and have crewed for a multi-time West Coast Regional Champion, that very car qualifying on the front row at the invitation only National Championships in Atlanta.

But wait, I was the chassis guy and dinked around with spring rates, shock valving, roll centers, camber, toe, tire temps, weight transfer, etc. Upon further consideration, you're right. I was just a chassis guy and didn't know what I was talking about when I wrote about engine oil. What was I thinking? Please accept my apologies.

SLO Town


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

: popcorn: Reply? This should be fun .... 

--J.


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## my3rdbimmer (Jan 12, 2005)

Look folks i'm going to let you in on a little secret.... Walmart (yes Walmart) will change your oil ond filter for 30$ with your choice of synthetic oil and yes they have mobil 1 5w30 changing your oil is a no brainer believe me.. change it early and often your motor will thank you for it.. i have built and raced turbo motors for years and oil is critical for anything with a turbo. so i think i know what i am talking about.. 30$ is that best deal going.. in most cases you can't buy the oil for that much.. MOBILe 1 is great oil, but if i had a choice i wold use AMSOIL oil and filters. It is the best synthetic you can buy period. redline guys will usually will even admit that. just look up a local rep if you want information on it. But 30$ for a full synthetic oil change is a great deal if you ask me.

As far as the break in period.. it is a recommendation not a hard fast rule.. i break in the engines that i build fast.. i prefer it.. gets everything hot and seated correctly. plus if there is a weak link it will go early instead of later. the only thing i preach is changing the oil early and often in the break in period.. 1500 miles 1st, 1500 miles 2nd, 3000 3rd 5000 miles after that. Just my opinion tho..


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## my3rdbimmer (Jan 12, 2005)

here is the info for the amsoil oil you need

Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy Duty Oil 
Long service life oil engineered for both diesel and gasoline engines including turbo charged vehicles. Provides superior wear protection and fuel efficiency compared to conventional oils. Premium synthetic oils and additives with 12 TBN chemistry resists oil breakdown from heat, blow-by chemicals, acids and oxygen. Improves cold temperature starting. Global performance specifications include: API CI-4+/SL/CF, EO-N + 03', DHD-1, ECF-1, ACEA A3/B3/E3/E5, VDS-3 


1-Gallon & 2.5-Gallon Bottles, 30 and 55 Gallon Drums Also Available In Store 
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil is a premium quality all fleet lubricant, specifically designed for use in commercial, industrial and fleet applications requiring diesel specifications CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-2 and CF, while also suitable for API SL gasoline engine lubrication.

Resists Oxidation and Thermal Breakdown
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil resists breakdown from heat, blowby chemicals and oxygen up to ten times longer than do conventional oils. AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil resists forming sludge and varnish deposits, which contribute to corrosion, decreased fuel efficiency and increased engine wear. AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil doesn't thicken like conventional oils but maintains its viscosity, providing peak engine performance and extended drain intervals. AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil's superior heat transfer properties and exceptional lubricity reduces engine operating temperatures and engine wear.

Fuel Efficient Formula
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil efficiently transfers energy from the engine to the drive-train. Its low coefficient of friction inhibits the energy loss to "drag" common to high viscosity oils. AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil surpasses the API Energy Conserving Rating requirements and provides significant fuel savings, with additional savings in oil make-up for over-the-road service.

Low Temperature Protection
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil remains fluid at temperatures as low as -60° F (-51° C). It circulates rapidly to provide vital lubrication and prevent engine wear caused by lack of oil flow. AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil allows quicker, easier cold temperature starting with significantly reduced engine wear.

Reduces Oil Consumption
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil loses only 6.5 percent of its mass to high temperature volatilization. Conventional multigrade oils often lose over 15 percent. Lower volatility means less oil vapor passing into the combustion chamber, resulting in a reduction in oil consumption and hydrocarbon emissions. Additionally, lower volatilization helps AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil retain its viscosity characteristics after high temperature service for continued dependable protection and excellent fuel economy.

Non-Foaming
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil contains highly effective anti-foam agents to prevent oil foaming.

Extended Drain Intervals
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil is specifically designed for long drain capability in both diesel and gasoline engines. Its unique synthetic formulation, improved detergent/dispersant capabilities and long drain additive package ensure maximum engine protection, cleanliness and performance over extended drain intervals. The extended drain intervals allowable with AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil reduce vehicle downtime and waste oil disposal costs.

Unsurpassed Engine Protection
AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil's higher VI provides a better protective film at higher temperatures than conventional SAE 40 oils, while remaining fluid at subzero temperatures. In every engine tested, AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil's unique technology significantly reduced ring wear, cylinder bore polishing, cylinder lining wear, oil consumption, piston deposits and ring breakage.

APPLICATION
Recommended for applications specifying the following:

DIESEL SPECIFICATIONS

API CI-4+, CH-4, CF, CF-2 
ACEA B3, B4, E2, E3, E5 
Global DHD-1 
Mack EO-M+, EO-N Premium Plus 03 
DDC Power Guard 93K214 
Caterpillar ECF-1 
Cummins CES 20071, 20072, 20076, 20077, 20078 
Volvo VDS2, VDS3 
MB 228.1, 228.3 
GASOLINE SPECIFICATIONS

API SL, SJ 
ACEA A3 
MB229.5, 229.3, 229.1 
BMW LL-01/98 
VW 501.01, 502.00, 503.00, 505.00, 506.00 
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025 
Porsche 
Saab 
SERVICE LIFE
In light-duty diesel engines, non-turbocharged diesel engines, heavy-duty diesel engines, turbocharged diesel engines: drain oil at intervals up to twice or more the oil drain interval length recommended by the engine manufacturer if extended drain intervals are supported by the findings of a used oil analysis program, or six months, whichever comes first.

In car and light truck non-turbocharged gasoline engines and in marine craft and infrequently used gasoline automotive engines: drain oil at intervals up to three times longer than those recommended by the engine manufacturer or one year, whichever comes first.

In turbocharged passenger car gasoline engines: drain oil at intervals up to twice the drain interval length recommended by the engine manufacturer or one year, whichever comes first.

In motorcycles and small off-road four-cycle gasoline engines: drain oil at engine manufacturer's recommendations.

In high performance or racing engines: drain oil at intervals determined by the findings of a used oil analysis program.

Change AMSOIL Full-Flow Oil Filters at 12,500 mile or six month intervals, whichever comes first, in gasoline engines. In diesel engines, change AMSOIL Full-Flow Oil Filters at 7000 mile or six month intervals, whichever comes first. Change other manufacturers' filters at the engine manufacturer's recommended filter change intervals.

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES - Revised 7/03 

AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD) 

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
11.5 

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
63.8 

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
176 

Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity @ -25°C, cP (ASTM D 2602) 
5012 

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97)
-51 (-60) 

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
236 (457) 

Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92) 250 (482) 

Noack Volatility (DIN 51581) 250°C for 1 hour, % weight loss 6.5 

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP, 150°C, 1.0 x 106 s-1 (ASTM D-4683) >3.5 

Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.40 

Total Base Number
>12


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

SLO Town said:


> Easy now. No need to get huffy and accuse me of not understanding various lubrication related bits.
> 
> First, the Service and Warranty booklet I refer to has a print date of September 2002, and the throughput the test mentions the 2003 model year. To say this booklet is based in 1999 info would not appear to be correct.
> 
> ...


Not to fuel this discussion, 'cause it's pointless and to avoid : popcorn: replies I'm only gonna say this: RTFM, check the list of approved oils and make your own decision based on that information, don't listen to anyone on the internet forums


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## Pilot_Guest (Nov 22, 2005)

Burakfb said:


> Hi guys
> Before everyone gets mad, yes i did do my homework and searched the forum, but now, i'm even more confused that ever before.
> So here is deal, i have a 325i, bought a couple of months ago, and i have around 6500 miles on it. I got kinda worried today realizing thats twice the 3000 mile interval so i decided to ask for your oppinion on what i should do.
> I'm no mechanic, and do not have the tools to do my own oil change.
> ...


You're fine, years ago at the beamer factory i watched as the technician took a brand new bmw at the end of the line and floored it in neutral and held it to the floor for what seemed like an eternity to me, i guess they want to make sure it isn't going to break.
break in period? you don't want to drive it like an old lady, do you?
another guy on here had a bmw with over 300 k on it and had never changed the oil.


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## Malibubimmer (Sep 28, 2005)

my3rdbimmer said:


> Look folks i'm going to let you in on a little secret.... Walmart (yes Walmart) will change your oil ond filter for 30$ with your choice of synthetic oil and yes they have mobil 1 5w30 changing your oil is a no brainer believe me.. change it early and often your motor will thank you for it


Wal-Mart, that destroyer of neighborhoods and family values, that preys upon its suppliers and employees, that has US subsidizing its health care for its employees. No thanks.


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## FalconGuy (Sep 27, 2002)

Malibubimmer said:


> Wal-Mart, that destroyer of neighborhoods and family values, that preys upon its suppliers and employees, that has US subsidizing its health care for its employees. No thanks.


I get such a kick out of all the Wal Mart bashers, not that I would ever let them touch my car.

When people say they put mom and pops out of business, I would always ask how many mom and pops had employee health care on any level for their employees. How about a 401K? Dental? Vision? Disability? Workers Comp? Not many I know and I know quite a few.

Family Values? they censor music and magazines for fear of offending family values, heck they wont even sell anything remotely contrary to family values, unless you consider shotguns anti family. They sponsor more local groups and donate to more charities than nearly any other entity besides government.

Shop where you like but please stop with the Wal Mart is ruining the country crap, the education level of their employees and the complexity of the tasks they perform is the reason the pay is considerably lower than what the avg Bimmerfest member makes.

Go ahead and buy your stuff for twice the price if you want but dont make up stories about how Walmart is ruining the USA.

There are a lot of people far better off for Walmart giving them a chance to get ahead and provide for their families, with a chance of something unheard of in the previous business model like health care, 401k etc. Even if these benefits are not available to everyone they are AVAILABLE to a group that never had them before, did you think your local hardware salesman had any of this before walmart? I know mine didn't, because it was me in high school. Today the same job would have offered me all I listed plus tuition reimbursement. Yea its hell at walmart.

Geez you guys listen to too much NPR/Michael Moore

Ever wonder why the average Walmart employee seems pretty happy? My company hire guys at 100K+ and we have difficulty keeping them half as motivated, Walmart has a very good business model, the growth proves it. People just hate success stories.

Of course im jaded bought a lot of stock a long time ago :rofl:


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## Keith2 (Mar 4, 2005)

Just to bring this back to the oil thread.....I cringed when the dealer told me the first oil change was 15K on my new 745. What they told me was 8 quarts and synthetic. I had to add 1 quart between maybe 3K to 5K, but the oil looked pretty good (not like the nasty black that occurred within 3K on my '75 chevy impala). Mine's a lease, so I go with the dealer as all maintainence is included, but I'm not so sure I'd change earlier if I owned.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

pilotrosso said:


> You're fine, years ago at the beamer factory i watched as the technician took a brand new bmw at the end of the line and floored it in neutral and held it to the floor for what seemed like an eternity to me, i guess they want to make sure it isn't going to break.
> break in period? you don't want to drive it like an old lady, do you?
> another guy on here had a bmw with over 300 k on it and had never changed the oil.


Are you sure it wasn't on rollers, and part of the final inspection? I have seen them run on the rollers at the factory in SC.


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## AFIHAVOK (Jun 23, 2007)

*haha*

I like how the guy who has owned 6-7 bmws is railing against Wal Mart. You truly are a champion for the underpaid and less fortunate. lol. As far as oil goes, Mobil 1.


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## captaintruckee (Dec 31, 2006)

FYI

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/


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## MD11F (Jun 21, 2007)

+1 on Walmart being the anti-Christ.. I never buy anything there, even if it's at 1/2 price.

As for oil, I too agree that the BMW free service is nice if you're in a lease, but I pay cash and keep my cars for 5+ years so I'm going to be doing half intervals on all the fluids. I also do one additional item.. On my CDI, I changed out all gear fluids at 1500 miles.. This is a break in for the engine, trans, and rear dif. I got a good independent shop to do it all for $400, and we did an analysis of the oils and there was quite a lot of metal shard in it.. this is the same stuff that will be suspended in your engine, rear dif, and tranny oil fr that 15000, or God forbid 100,000 (trans) mile interval.. NO THANKS! I do all my gear fluids at 1500, then again at 1/2 manufacturer intervals.

I have had more than one experienced and respected mechanic tell me that the best way to keep your vehicle running like new, is to change fluids often.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

BTW BMW DOES use a break in oil, but they also know that US owners will not bring it in at 1200 miles like required, so the break in oil is replaced with standard BMW oil at the VPC when the car arrives in the country.


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## rtholia (Dec 6, 2007)

*2002 BMW 325i*

Hello Everybody, 
I just bought my first bimmer and was wondering if I can learn how to change the oil and break pads myself and get rid of the inspection blinking light in the dashboard (says -75 miles to inspection). If there is anything else i also need to do, please let me know before I seriously mess i:dunno:t up. Thank you and hope to get a reply soon.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Oil changes and pads are pretty easy. Check out the Do It Yourself section.

You will also find how to reset the lights. Although it sounds like you are due for an Inspection, which is much more involved than an Oil Change, and if you aren't experienced, you should have a mechanic do it. You can use a BMW dealer or an independant BMW shop.


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## andrewWolf (Dec 20, 2007)

Hi, just had my oil changed at Pep Boys. However, I checked the color of the oil the next morning, and it looks dirty. Now I'm not sure if they actually did the change or not (I brought it in for other service at the same time, so its possible they forgot to do the oil change).

I know synthetic oil is pretty clear when new. I have since driven only about 10 miles, but when I checked the dipstick, the oil was dirty brown already. Is it possible that they didn't actually do it? Or is it possible that they changed the oil, but didn't change the filter because they didn't have it in stock? Would that account for the oil color?

Or is it normal for new oil to turn used looking pretty much right away once it mixes with the old residue in the engine?

What do you guys think?


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