# BMW Updates Winter Euro. Delivery policy



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

If you are doing a wintertime European Delivery, you will be required to sign a waiver (see below for text) absolving BMW of any liability relating to whether your vehicle is correctly equipped for winter driving and for compliance with the laws of various countries concerning this.

(Thanks to Gianny for providing the text on this)

Your CA will receive an e-mail as follows:

_Your customer will be required to sign this release at Freimann when they take delivery of their car. The delivery center will be able to outline different options for your customers including purchasing or renting snow tires and/or snow chains rental. Please make sure your customers are given a copy of this form prior to traveling to Europe so there are no surprises when they get there._

Page 1 
RELEASE ANDCUSTOMER NOTIFICATIONCOLD-WEATHER DRIVING CONDITIONSCustomer Name: __________________________________________________ _____
Address: __________________________________________________ 
City: _______________________________State: ________Zip Code_____________Model: _____________________ 
Chassis Number: ___________________________(Last 7 digits located on driver's side lower windshield area and driver's door jam)

German federal law requires drivers to equip their vehicle appropriately for the prevailingweather conditions. If you do not appropriately equip your vehicle for the weatherconditions that exist during your drive, obstruct traffic or get involved in an accident as aresult thereof, it is possible you may be cited for a violation of the law by the localauthorities or be found to be grossly negligent according to the law. Other countries youmay visit may also have similar laws. Before you travel, please check with theappropriate country you plan on visiting while driving.Use of appropriate tires for the weather conditions is one relevant factor in appropriatelyequipping your vehicle. Although all-season (also called "M+S tires) tires provide better winter traction than summer/performance tires, they fail to provide the same level ofcold-weather performance as winter tires especially under severe snow conditions. If you ordered the vehicle with summer/performance or all-season tires, it is possible that depending on where you drive and during what season in which you are driving, you may need to equip your vehicle accordingly. Upon delivery of your car in Germany, information on respective options will be available upon request. Additional cost might result from choosing one of those options. Compliance with the German law and those of other countries is the sole responsibility of the driver.

CUSTOMER AGREES TO RELEASE AND HOLD HARMLESS BMW OF NORTHAMERICA, LLC., BMW AG, ALL AUTHORIZED BMW CENTERS, AND EACH OFTHEIR AFFILIATED COMPANIES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, AGENTS, EMPLOYEES AND ASSIGNS, FROM AND AGAINST ANY AND ALL CLAIMS OR LOSSES INCURRED BY CUSTOMER THAT POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED OR MINIMIZED IF THE ABOVE-REFERENCED CAR WOULD HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATELY EQUIPPED FOR THE PREVAILING WEATHER CONDITIONS.

__________________________________________________ __________
Signature of CustomerDate:_____________________________________ _______________________
Signature of WitnessDate:_______________________________
Name of Witness

Retain original copy in Customer's file.


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Let the b!tching and moaning begin...


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

Should not be an issue as long as the insurance still applies.


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## Bikie (May 2, 2004)

Seems like an opportunity for Rolf or someone to rent winter tires and wheels to needy bimmerfesters. A couple of sets for 3ers 5ers and maybe 6 & 7s could produce a nice income steam I would think.


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## Gianny (Nov 22, 2006)

Who is this ROLF person? I keep reading posts in which his name is constantly mentioned.

I wouldn't mind renting winter tires, but how do I returned them if I plan to drop off my car in London?


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

Gianny said:


> Who is this ROLF person? I keep reading posts in which his name is constantly mentioned.
> 
> I wouldn't mind renting winter tires, but how do I returned them if I plan to drop off my car in London?


You need to read more threads to know Rolf. Or go to sticky.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

beewang said:


> Let the b!tching and moaning begin...


Bee, you are a true mod. You are even providing traffic signal for moaning and b!tching. Awesome.:thumbup:


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Jspira said:


> wintertime European Delivery


Do they provide a definition of that term?


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## MP3_E46 (Oct 30, 2003)

Jspira, you beat me to this post - I'll post the original pdf soon, but have just re-paved my PC so cannot login to email right now. 

Can I further suggest that anyone venturing to ski resorts buys a set of snow chains to take in their luggage - don't waste time (and $$) trying to find them over there. IMO multi-season tires are 'acceptable' in light/medium snowfall, but even with winter tires a set of chains are necessary if you get caught in heavy snowfall at altitude. Anyone driving in snow with summer tires is a utter lunatic.


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## desinole (Jul 14, 2006)

arghhh @#[email protected]#$!%$%&@#[email protected]#@$%%^@#!$!#$

WTF, they either provide us with proper equipment or they do not deliver cars in winter. This is total BS, half of the population doing ED are going there for the first time, this is crazy.

And yes 50% of the statistics are made up, if someone has a problem with that.


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

If it is snowing the day of delivery, will they let you leave the car on their lot until it stops?

If not, it's pretty bogus. That would mean they require you to do something that is illegal. (unless it's BYO wheels and snow tires)


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

desinole said:


> arghhh @#[email protected]#$!%$%&@#[email protected]#@$%%^@#!$!#$
> 
> WTF, they either provide us with proper equipment or they do not deliver cars in winter. This is total BS, half of the population doing ED are going there for the first time, this is crazy.
> 
> And yes 50% of the statistics are made up, if someone has a problem with that.


OK, so you'd prefer to be forced to pay the added cost? It seems to me that making winter wheels/tires available is a huge improvement.


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## Calif65GM (Mar 27, 2005)

More reason to do ED late Spring through early Fall.


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## Brandon01 (Sep 5, 2006)

I would very much appreciate the option to rent winter tires while there. We're picking up our X3 in 3 weeks. While we'll have AWD and all-seasons, I would gladly pay for the extra peace of mind and travel flexibility that comes with a proper set of winter tires. If this option is available when we arrive, I will take it!

We're also dropping off in Munich, something that would seem to be requisite for this option.

Anyone have more information if BMW will be providing this service?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Brandon01 said:


> I would very much appreciate the option to rent winter tires while there. We're picking up our X3 in 3 weeks. While we'll have AWD and all-seasons, I would gladly pay for the extra peace of mind and travel flexibility that comes with a proper set of winter tires. If this option is available when we arrive, I will take it!
> 
> We're also dropping off in Munich, something that would seem to be requisite for this option.
> 
> Anyone have more information if BMW will be providing this service?


AFAIK they are not renting winter wheels but it sounds as if they might make arrangements for you to buy winer wheels and tires. Not really sure.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

rumratt said:


> If it is snowing the day of delivery, will they let you leave the car on their lot until it stops?


Definitely. (But it could snow for several days - how long could you camp out at the delivery center for? :angel: )


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

desinole said:


> arghhh @#[email protected]#$!%$%&@#[email protected]#@$%%^@#!$!#$
> 
> WTF, they either provide us with proper equipment or they do not deliver cars in winter. This is total BS, half of the population doing ED are going there for the first time, this is crazy.
> 
> And yes 50% of the statistics are made up, if someone has a problem with that.


Is there a point to what you are saying?:dunno:


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

Assuming a worst case scenario and there's a snowstorm when I'm about to pick up my car - how do I get it to the Harms dropoff point in one piece?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

AK said:


> Assuming a worst case scenario and there's a snowstorm when I'm about to pick up my car - how do I get it to the Harms dropoff point in one piece?


You don't. You pay Harms to pick up the car after the storm passes.


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## z356 (Dec 3, 2005)

*BMW should spell out the options before ED customers get there...*

Jonathan:
The BMW AG email you informed us of reads at the end: "Upon delivery of your car in Germany, information on respective options will be available upon request. Additional cost might result from choosing one of those options." BMW AG should be asked to post publicly those 'options' and their 'additional costs' so that BMWNA can inform all of its dealers and ED customers what is available to them should they choose to do ED in winter. And if you and Beewang can find out about these 'options' via your special AG sources first, our Bimmerfest forum could break new ground by providing valuable information to all prospective winter ED customers that they would otherwise not presently have. Having just come back from ED and getting snow on our first day of travel on November 3rd, I can see how most ED customers for the next three or four months need & should be concerned with this issue and plan their trip accordingly. And if there are winter tires options that are provided at some cost by BMW for ED, we all need to hear about them ASAP, not after we get there. And having customers signing off a waiver like this scares more people than it informs them on how to deal with the issue of winter driving during ED. In my opinion, BMW needs to be smarter as how they run this program to insure it will maintain its attraction and viability into the future. And sooner or later, they will have to provide winter tires on cars delivered during winter months - even if forced to by their insurance companies and/or local regulations. Z356


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

chuck92103 said:


> Should not be an issue as long as the insurance still applies.


That always has been and remains the issue.



jspira said:


> CUSTOMER AGREES TO RELEASE AND HOLD HARMLESS BMW OF NORTHAMERICA, LLC., BMW AG, ALL AUTHORIZED BMW CENTERS, AND EACH OFTHEIR AFFILIATED COMPANIES, OFFICERS, DIRECTORS, *AGENTS*, EMPLOYEES *AND ASSIGNS*, FROM AND AGAINST ANY AND ALL CLAIMS OR LOSSES INCURRED BY CUSTOMER THAT POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED OR MINIMIZED IF THE ABOVE-REFERENCED CAR WOULD HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATELY EQUIPPED FOR THE PREVAILING WEATHER CONDITIONS.


Ugh. Someone was looking at German law (beyond the recent changes). Is the insurance company one of BMW's agents or assigns that this waiver releases from any and all winter equipment related claims or losses? Any lawyers care to comment?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

z356 said:


> Jonathan:
> The BMW AG email you informed us of reads at the end: "Upon delivery of your car in Germany, information on respective options will be available upon request. Additional cost might result from choosing one of those options." BMW AG should be asked to post publicly those 'options' and their 'additional costs' so that BMWNA can inform all of its dealers and ED customers what is available to them should they choose to do ED in winter. And if you and Beewang can find out about these 'options' via your special AG sources first, our Bimmerfest forum could break new ground by providing valuable information to all prospective winter ED customers that they would otherwise not presently have. Having just come back from ED and getting snow on our first day of travel on November 3rd, I can see how most ED customers for the next three or four months need & should be concerned with this issue and plan their trip accordingly. And if there are winter tires options that are provided at some cost by BMW for ED, we all need to hear about them ASAP, not after we get there. And having customers signing off a waiver like this scares more people than it informs them on how to deal with the issue of winter driving during ED. In my opinion, BMW needs to be smarter as how they run this program to insure it will maintain its attraction and viability into the future. And sooner or later, they will have to provide winter tires on cars delivered during winter months - even if forced to by their insurance companies and/or local regulations. Z356


already checking on this (part I) but I disagree re part II (providing winter tires) as they would sooner discontinue deliveries of cars with summer tires at that point than have to deal with the logistics of this.


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## Gianny (Nov 22, 2006)

It reallly does bother me that i would have to buy a set of winter tires to the travel i wanted to. It seems that now my best bet is to rent some winter tires and just travel to prague, vienna and back to munich to return the car. My original plan of going to Amsterdam, Paris and London is going out the window. 

I can always improvise!!!


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## 4-series (Oct 7, 2006)

MP3_E46 said:


> Jspira, you beat me to this post - I'll post the original pdf soon, but have just re-paved my PC so cannot login to email right now.
> 
> Can I further suggest that anyone venturing to ski resorts buys a set of snow chains to take in their luggage - don't waste time (and $$) trying to find them over there. IMO multi-season tires are 'acceptable' in light/medium snowfall, but even with winter tires a set of chains are necessary if you get caught in heavy snowfall at altitude. Anyone driving in snow with summer tires is a utter lunatic.


Here you go , GIF copy http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177827 :thumbup:


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## 4-series (Oct 7, 2006)

AK said:


> Assuming a worst case scenario and there's a snowstorm when I'm about to pick up my car - how do I get it to the Harms dropoff point in one piece?


AK, i was thinking along the same lines. I heard 50 euros is the fee you pay to get BMW drop it off for you. Need to confirm this but seems reasonable.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

4-series said:


> Here you go , GIF copy http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177827 :thumbup:


So, you are supposed to sign that waiver in Germany?  (Sorry, I read right past that the first time.)

I am very glad I don't have to agree to such a thing to renew my (German) car insurance.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

johnf said:


> So, you are supposed to sign that waiver in Germany?  (Sorry, I read right past that the first time.)


Korrekt.


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## z356 (Dec 3, 2005)

Jonathan:

Regarding your response :"already checking on this (part I) but I disagree re part II (providing winter tires) as they would sooner discontinue deliveries of cars with summer tires at that point than have to deal with the logistics of this."

If KL of ED at BMWNA, is writing to US dealers that: "The delivery center will be able to outline different options for your customers including purchasing or renting snow tires and/or snow chains rental.", it means that BMW AG is ready to get involved in the logistics of all of this. Good for them and good for us. And I want to remind our forum that, until this notice came out, BMW did NOT offer even an All Season tire option for the 650 series on US models. Our choice was Summer Performance Tires - 18"s or 19"s. So in my ED case, I had no choice what-so-ever but for Summer Performance. And this might be true for many other models or sport versions of those models. And, in any case, a dedicated Winter tire is totally superior to an All Season tire in inclement weather conditions. So if this policy is now changing, let's give them credit for adapting and providing us choices, even at a cost yet to be determined. Look forward to whatever you can find (Part 1) on the options and costs of this service. I started a thread in this forum two months ago on this very subject and we had a variety of opinions expressed by our members. I, for one, am glad BMW now seems to be doing something about this. Z356

Here is the link to my original thread 'BMW could offer winter tires on its ED program...but would they?' - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166671&highlight=z356


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Z, I just spoke with BMW (KL).

They are going to release the details of snow tire rentals next week.

In addition, the waiver ONLY removes liability from BMW insofar as a fine for winter tires is concerned; in other words, it has no impact on the Allianz coverage which remains in force. This way customers cannot come back to BMW and say "pay my fine" or something like that.

So BMW will be providing additional options, we´ll have more details next week but there will be options including snow tire rental and chains. Of course, if you rent snow tires, you will have to return to Munich to return the rental.


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## panzer948 (Sep 8, 2006)

Very valuable information. Please keep us informed what you find out. I will be picking up my sport package 335i in mid January. Still haven't received a waiver from my dealer though.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

Jspira said:


> In addition, the waiver ONLY removes liability from BMW insofar as a fine for winter tires is concerned; in other words, it has no impact on the Allianz coverage which remains in force. This way customers cannot come back to BMW and say "pay my fine" or something like that.


Still, something just isn't adding up here, but I am not going to worry about that unless or until I get involved in a winter ED.

Thanks for asking!


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

johnf said:


> Still, something just isn't adding up here, but I am not going to worry about that unless or until I get involved in a winter ED.
> 
> Thanks for asking!


You´re welcome and I´m sure as more details are released, it will add up better.


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## acf69 (Oct 2, 2006)

There are two seperate issues:

(1) BMW waiving its liability for you driving in summer tires in the winter on a car delivered by them
(2) The Allianz insurance policy

I have no problem with (1), especially if we get offered an alternative by BMW. They did not draft the law and there is nothing they can do about it. Any help is really nice.

The kicker will be (2). I assume that Allianz has no reasons to leave you of the hook whenever you get into an accident with summer tires. If there is another party involved with winter tires their insurance will most definitaly ask Allianz to pay, after whichg they will excersise their clause and let you pay.

In summary: Either you take the BMW offer and get winter tires, or you are at great (financial) risk.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

z356 said:


> If KL of ED at BMWNA, is writing to US dealers that: "The delivery center will be able to outline different options for your customers including purchasing or renting snow tires and/or snow chains rental.", it means that BMW AG is ready to get involved in the logistics of all of this. Good for them and good for us.


I have to assume that even if they do get some kind of winter tire rental service going, that it's going to be *very* expensive. Not that I won't be interested in participating in it or anything..

I'm tentatively scheduled to pick up my car on 1/26, and it's a 335i Sport, so I'm in this boat with everyone else. I plan on coming up with a list of things to see and do in and around Munich; some of them involving the car in case I get a good stroke of global warming luck, and some of them involving hiking it and busing it like everyone else in Europe in case it snows over. I live in Southern California and frankly don't have much experience in driving in conditions worse than heavy rain. I'm not willing to risk "Bangling up" my new car in the ice and I don't need to sign a waiver from BMW to understand the risks.

My question is (and I'm sure this is a FAQ): How flexible is the dropoff center as far as dates are concerned? BMWNA's website says they all need 4 days advanced notice but this is going to be difficult to do without accurately predicting the weather at least a week in advance.


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

AK said:


> ......My question is (and I'm sure this is a FAQ): How flexible is the dropoff center as far as dates are concerned? BMWNA's website says they all need 4 days advanced notice but this is going to be difficult to do without accurately predicting the weather at least a week in advance....


Its flexible... drop-off anytime you please during business hour.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

AK said:


> My question is (and I'm sure this is a FAQ): How flexible is the dropoff center as far as dates are concerned? BMWNA's website says they all need 4 days advanced notice but this is going to be difficult to do without accurately predicting the weather at least a week in advance.


This varies by location. Munich is very flexible, just make sure that your drop off is during business hours.

Other locations - I advise you e-mail them and ask.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

acf69 said:


> There are two separate issues:
> 
> (1) BMW waiving its liability for you driving in summer tires in the winter on a car delivered by them
> (2) The Allianz insurance policy....


Well, you are getting much further along in resolving this matter than I am!

I think I have pretty much sorted out the new law, at least as far as that's possible at the moment, and the effects it will have on my insurance. That understanding/reconciliation, however, now seems to be causing me a fair amount of self-inflected, cognitive dissonance as I try to consider ED and its mostly familiar but also peculiar licensing and insurance. Rather than draw in others, through vexatious thought and comment, into my present, confused limbo, I shall keep quiet and patiently wait for things to sort themselves out.


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## rkg (Feb 28, 2006)

Here is an interesting story ... a friend of mine had a rental car and got into an accident in Germany in Jan '06 during a snow storm (hit a median and tore up the side of the car). He was issued and ticket and was required to pay 4,000 Euro for median damage plus 10,000 Euro for car repair, tow, etc. His nor the rental agency's insurance company would pay since the car had summer tires. Of course, being a rental, you would think the rental company should be responsible for proper tires in the month of January and thus assume the damage costs. Well, after going to a German court, he lost because responsibility falls upon the driver ... judge said that he should have more carefully inspected the car for winter driving. He was out almost 20,000 Euro ... yikes.

Until someone contacts Alllianz directly, I would not assume that coverage will apply automatically if the wrong equipment is on the car for the conditions. After living in Denmark and Germany for five years, the attitude that common sense rules is mandated; if an insurance company can show lack there of, you are out of luck.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

acf69 said:


> There are two seperate issues:
> 
> (1) BMW waiving its liability for you driving in summer tires in the winter on a car delivered by them
> (2) The Allianz insurance policy
> ...


BMW is not waiving its liability, the purchaser is acknowledging that he assumes liability - that´s different. In contrast, the purchaser is assuming all risks.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

rkg said:


> Here is an interesting story ... a friend of mine had a rental car and got into an accident in Germany in Jan '06 during a snow storm (hit a median and tore up the side of the car). He was issued and ticket and was required to pay 4,000 Euro for median damage plus 10,000 Euro for car repair, tow, etc. His nor the rental agency's insurance company would pay since the car had summer tires. Of course, being a rental, you would think the rental company should be responsible for proper tires in the month of January and thus assume the damage costs. Well, after going to a German court, he lost because responsibility falls upon the driver ... judge said that he should have more carefully inspected the car for winter driving. He was out almost 20,000 Euro ... yikes.
> 
> Until someone contacts Alllianz directly, I would not assume that coverage will apply automatically if the wrong equipment is on the car for the conditions. After living in Denmark and Germany for five years, the attitude that common sense rules is mandated; if an insurance company can show lack there of, you are out of luck.


I spoke with BMW on this as well. Allianz will apparently cover cars with summer tires.

Personally I don´t understand how but that is how it will be.


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## rkg (Feb 28, 2006)

mmmmmm ... I am not a lawyer and do not trust insurance companies. I would want to make sure that is specifically in writing with the Allianz policy. I would also assume that Allianz will not pay the 240 euro ticket since BMW in now off the hook with their required waiver. 

By the way if you have tourist tags, you are paying this fine on the spot (assuming this is like a speeding ticket) ... at least in Germany and Austria. I had to throw a bribe when in CZ.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I don´t think BMW was ever really on the hook for the ticket but they wanted to cover all bases.

Allianz certainly would not cover the ticket.

The ticket would be issued for driver negligence in having a vehicle on the road that is not properly prepared for inclement weather.

The law says ,, inclement weather`` by the way, not ,,snow´´ so there is wide latitude for the Polizei to determine when tires are not permissible; I would say below 0°C weather might be one such instance even if it´s sunny since the tires have no traction at all then.


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## CAPT1809 (Oct 28, 2006)

I was incredulous when I read this topic and the proposed Release. Out of curiosity, I walked down the hall and asked a couple of our 1styear attorneys (rookies) to read it and give me their impressions after giving them the ED background. I grabbed another cup of coffee and started on something else (paying client of course) and within 30 minutes, they confirmed my impressions: If it’s authentic, the Release is unenforceable and anyone affected could easily repudiate their ED contract and get their money back. 

Well, I don’t want to do that, but I don’t understand why BMWNA would slap together a thin band-aid like this when responsible CRM would simply correspond with ED’ers and just lay out the facts. Dropping this thing in at the 11th hour is just idiotic. And it’s poorly written, probably just a cut & paste job from a marketing staffer

Here’s the assessment, and probably the first pro bono (free) legal work ever offered in this forum. The backdrop of concern is of course, BMWNA’s obligation is to deliver an in-force insurance policy as set forth in the ED Agreement.

Up front, the German law is ambiguous – it doesn’t describe with particularity exactly what is required to be in compliance. This would not fly here in the USA but it’s their country so we have to comply. I’m picking up a 335 sedan w/all weather tires in 2 weeks and planned on buying chains anyway. I already recognized that may or may not be sufficient since rear-end traction is only 50% of the handling physics in lousy, slippery WX. Accordingly, if I am ticketed and fined…no problem. But I'm not signing a waiver or Release with the language in the example above, period.

Everyone has remedies if you want them. The Release is unenforceable for at least three reasons, meaning if BMWNA states it will not deliver your vehicle w/o your signature, you can simply back out of the deal before you travel. It’s an anticipatory repudiation, or your being relieved of further contract obligations insofar as BMWNA states it won’t deliver w/o you signature. Nonsense.

•	If BMWNA knew of, but failed to convey this provision in your ED Agreement, it violates the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) and Consumer Protection Act (CPA) Statutes in most states; 
•	Even if it was incorporated in the ED Agreement (it isn’t) , this language is far too broad and as a result - unenforceable. If the intent is to incorporate the buyer’s acknowledgment of personal responsibility to comply with the German traffic code, you don’t draft what I would call a post-contract global release;
•	It’s a contract of adhesion, meaning you - the buyer under contract, have zero recourse but to accept. That’s also a violation of Article 2 of the UCC and CPA. It’s clearly a deceptive marketing practice proscribed by any CPA

If you choose, you’ll have ample authority to revoke your contract and in most states, should be able to recover your deposit and attorney fees if any, should it come to that. 

Now who’s going to do that? Not me. I’m fine as long as BMWNA provides me either (i) a copy of the insurance policy or (ii) some specific language by a person authorized to act on behalf of BMWNA, that the broad legal effect of this amateur Release does not supersede any Allianz policy obligations. The Release could possibly backdoor an Allianz exclusion for the ambiguous issue of tires under the broad “agents, assigns et.al,” terms under German law

Anyway, here’s what a properly drafted Release would look like. It won’t handle conflict of law problems but is a lot more to the point than the one posted. The 2 associates I mentioned above threw this together in 5 minutes. BMWNA just received about $500 in free legal work:
____________________________________________________________

1st AMENDMENT TO EUROPEAN DELIVERY PURCHASE ORDER
(EPDO) AND CUSTOMER RISK ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
FOR COLD-WEATHER DRIVING CONDITIONS

1.	Customer Name/Vehicle: __________________________________________________ _____
Address: __________________________________________________ 
City: _______________________________State: ________Zip Code_____________Model: _____________________ 
Chassis Number: ___________________________(Last 7 digits located on driver's side lower windshield area and driver's door jam)

2.	Background: This Agreement is by and between BMW of North America, LLC. (BMWNA) and Customer regarding Cold Weather Driving Conditions. Customer and BMWNA are parties to a European Delivery Purchase Order (EDPO) dated ________, 2006, which contemplates delivery during a season that Applicable German Law (see ¶3) may apply to tires and other equipment deemed appropriate for the season. The EDPO is amended only to the extent that this Agreement adds the terms of Customer’s Assumption of Risk for Cold Weather Driving Conditions. The remaining terms of the EPDO retain their full force and effect.

3.	Applicable German Law: German federal law requires drivers to equip their vehicle appropriately for the prevailing weather conditions. You may be ticketed and fined if you fail to do so, even if you do not obstruct traffic or become involved in an accident. Whether or not your vehicle is properly equipped, you may be cited for other violations of the law or found “grossly negligent” which may affect civil and criminal culpability under the German legal system. Other countries may have similar laws. Before you travel, please check with the appropriate country you plan on visiting while driving. 

4.	Winter and Alpine Area Considerations: Use of appropriate tires for the weather conditions is one relevant factor in appropriately equipping your vehicle. Although all-season (also called "M+S tires) tires provide better winter traction than summer/performance tires, they fail to provide the same level of cold-weather performance as winter tires especially under severe snow conditions. If you ordered the vehicle with summer/performance or all-season tires, it is possible that depending on where you drive and during what season in which you are driving, you may need to equip your vehicle accordingly. Upon delivery of your car in Germany, information on respective options will be available upon request. Additional cost might result from choosing one of those options. Compliance with the German law and those of other countries is the sole responsibility of the driver.

2.	Limited Release and Customer Assumption of Risk: Customer assumes the sole risk for compliance with German federal law during at all times of the year, including Cold Weather Driving Conditions. Customer agrees to Release and Hold harmless BMWNA, BMW AG, all authorized BMW centers, and each of their affiliated companies, officers, directors, agents, employees and assigns, from and against any and all citations, fines, seizures or other law enforcement or criminal sanctions incurred by customer that in the sole judgment of German law enforcement and judicial authorities would have been prevented or minimized if the above-referenced car would have been appropriately equipped for the prevailing weather conditions. 

3.	Express Limitations: This Agreement does not supersede, modify, or rescind any provisions of the EPDO, including but not limited to, the BMWNA obligation to secure and provide appropriate liability insurance for the period stated. It has no application to and will not supplant, threshold coverage issues or exclusions.

4.	Full Force and Effect: This Agreement is hereby appended to and made a material part of the EPDO. All existing EPDO terms continue with full force and effect. This Agreement may not be altered or modified except by express written agreement of both Parties. BMWNA represents and affirms that the person executing this Agreement on its behalf has the full authority to act for and Bind BMWNA to the terms contained herein.

Customer:
/s/______________________________ Date: ____________ 

Witness: 
/s/_______________________________ Date: ____________
Witness Printed Name: ________________________

BMW of North America, LLC

By: /s/__________________________ Date: ____________
Its: ___________________________ (Title)


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)




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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

CAPT1809 said:


> I was incredulous when I read this topic and the proposed Release.


It's not the PROPOSED release it is THE release that anyone doing a winter delivery will have to sign.

While I find it could be improved upon, I don't see your draft as the solution as it sounds like it was thrown together by first year lawyers (as opposed to the current release, which you characterized as being thrown together by a marketing staffer). So I guess inexperienced lawyers might trump a marketing person (maybe) but BMW NA is a large company with experienced inhouse legal staff; they don't let ANYTHING out the door without substantial review. In addition, since this is a document that has to be executed in Germany with a view towards a purchase that is transacted in two countries, it is not as simple as one might imagine.

I've already had discussions with BMW which I cannot detail here, but the gist of this is that there needs to be more communication in the form of a letter to the buyer when this is presented at a minimum.

I don't know what the ramifications of not signing the release might be but I can assure you that, as of today, Freimann will not release a car without the release. Tomorrow might be different, but I doubt it.


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## CAPT1809 (Oct 28, 2006)

Interesting, J. The 1st year lawyers are exceptional and their work (although at no charge) was reviewed by an experienced international attorney who has done dozens of transactions in Western Europe in a firm of 635 attorneys (and a Frankfurt office) with elite credentials and blue-chip clients.

Corporate or staff attorneys aren't always the best and brightest as evidenced by the BMWNA work product, assuming it was prepped by a lawyer. Whomever drafted that release would not last 5 minutes in even a mid-grade corporate firm in any major US city. 

Quality work anticipates problems and preserves existing business, rather than raising deal-killer issues like this one. For the uninitiated, the idea is to retain existing business, and avoid disputes and litigation. BMWNA failed in this respect. It's too expensive to alienate future customers, and irresponsible to open yourself up to repudiated deals

It's a lousy work product and unenforceable, not substantially different in quality than the BMWNA EDPO documentation: too many ambiguities, something inapposite from the reputation the parent company enjoys.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I believe you are quite correct in pointing out the deficiencies (which do indeed need to be remedied) but let me provide you with additional context.

BMW has been struggling with this issue for a while (in terms of what to do about winter deliveries), and the new law made them confront it head on.

Obviously thrusting a document in front of a sleep-deprived, jet-lagged traveler is not the answer. On the other hand, it is not completely clear to me as to how BMW buyers have ordered cars with summer tires for delivery in the middle of winter - even the BMW catalog warns drivers that summer tires are not appropriate for snow and ice driving.

Given how slowly the wheels at BMW may turn, in a corporate sense (ironic, isn't it?), I would not expect them to be able to react quickly in terms of even adopting your (improved, when compared with the original) document. 

Given the circumstances (i.e. the existing agreement being the only acceptable document for the time being) and your pending delivery, what do you think you will do?


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## z356 (Dec 3, 2005)

Jonathan:

Regarding your comment: "On the other hand, it is not completely clear to me as to how BMW buyers have ordered cars with summer tires for delivery in the middle of winter - even the BMW catalog warns drivers that summer tires are not appropriate for snow and ice driving." I think you should turn that around and start looking it from a different perspective. How could BMW allow 650i and M European Deliveries during winter if all they offer US clients (as of now) are ONLY Summer Performance Tires? So don't put the blame so easily on the BMW customers (your comments above) and start looking closely at what the corporation is providing us in terms of tire choices. I believe we are moving in the right direction with these new winter tire purchase and rental options, assuming their costs are reasonable. And chains are not the solution. They will help only in heavy snows and you will not be allowed to use them in non-heavy snow conditions in most European roads anyway. In typical morning icy surfaces, light snow conditions and extremely cold weather, summer tires will be totally inadequate and the rubber will be hard as plastic, making even your normal braking distances extremely long & dangerous. After your accident, you will be explaining to the Polizei and Allianz that you had these nice snow chains neatly packed in the trunk of your now wrecked new BMW... Z356.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I think (and this is pure speculation on my part) that BMW allowed the deliveries for two reasons: 1.) competitors did so and 2.) BMW assumed that customers who were picking up a car in winter understood the limitations and would drive right over to Harms.

I'm not justifying any of this - just reflecting.


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## CAPT1809 (Oct 28, 2006)

J: I'll complete the transaction when I have an insurance policy commitment letter from Allainz and/or an EDPO amendment which I will present to my dealer Monday afternoon.

The easy fix for this is to have future EDPOs simply state that in any conditions, summer or winter (the latter meaning law enforcement (LE) decides if you are compliant with specially configured tires), the purchaser has complete responsibility for LE-imposed fines or penalites. EU laws don't lead most citizens around by the nose like here in the USA, so the ELPO must convey that reality.

Also, BMWNA should use a forum selection clause for US purchasers: Purchaser agrees that if BMWNA is charged with EU or German LE fines or costs sourced through ED plates, US buyers agree to jurisidiction in New Jersey to resolve these problems. Most would be small claims actions anyway so the same marginally competent attorneys that drafted the release could certainly handle basic collection work if it came to that.

All this free legal work is annoying my fiance, who wants me to concentrate on her elite spa-centric (read: road trip to Baden-Baden) plan for December versus skiing [my preference]. Who wants to hang in a spa town when you can be skiing huge in Saas-Fee in Switzerland?. And she's pi**ed about me buying chains when I live in Virginia, even if the 335 sedan will be in Northern Michigan quite a bit. Huh??

Sarcasm aside though, I look forward to being in Bavaria in a few weeks.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

CAPT1809 said:


> J: I'll complete the transaction when I have an insurance policy commitment letter from Allainz and/or an EDPO amendment which I will present to my dealer Monday afternoon.


To be clear, it's Allianz. And to set expectations, I think you will at most get a letter from BMW NA advising that your coverage will be in force regardless of conditions, tires, etc.



CAPT1809 said:


> EU laws don't lead most citizens around by the nose like here in the USA, so the ELPO must convey that reality.


what does it mean, to lead someone (citizens or otherwise) around by the nose?



CAPT1809 said:


> Also, BMWNA should use a forum selection clause for US purchasers: Purchaser agrees that if BMWNA is charged with EU or German LE fines or costs sourced through ED plates, US buyers agree to jurisidiction in New Jersey to resolve these problems. Most would be small claims actions anyway so the same marginally competent attorneys that drafted the release could certainly handle basic collection work if it came to that.


Not necessary. BMW NA isn't worried about being saddled with uncollected fines. Fines are collected by LE on the spot in most cases when cars with Ausfuhrkennzeichenen are involved - or in cases I've seen where only a partial fine was paid, the local agency will collect from the BMW owner in the states. The Bundesgrenzschutz can bar non payers from entry back into Germany.

BMW is concerned about customers getting fined and presenting BMW with a bill and a claim for reimbursement. That's all. Hence, no forum selection clause would be required as that is not the issue at hand.


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## CAPT1809 (Oct 28, 2006)

Tell you what, J: You handle your transcontinental transactions the way you want and I'll do the same. Unless and until you have the authority to bind BMW to your representations (not the case) your statements (like mine) are info only have no legal effect on third parties

Thanks, but I'll rely on hard-copy documents - and those documents alone. Out here.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

Relax people.. It won't even be that cold anyway!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2482390,00.html#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=World


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## simpsmk (Sep 8, 2006)

Guys,
I'll be taking delivery of our 335i the morning of Dec 18th and I'm hoping to bypass these concerns by simply renting winter tires. Has anyone heard more about availability of these tires? Time is running a little short so any info you could provide would be most appreciated....does anyone have a contact number for someone at the delivery center? 

It looks like a number of us will be in Munich at about that same time (12/16 through 12/22) and I think it would be great to setup a time to meet for a drink. Is anyone else up for it? Maybe we could post a thread here with a meeting time and location. If anyone has a suggestion, please let me know. 

Brandy (wife) and I will be arriving in Munich on the 16th and returning to the states on the 22nd or 23rd.

I am heading over to my dealer this morning to sign the lease documents....as yet, I have not had to put any money down on this car (no deposit). However, I have received the package from BMWNA; clock, VIN#, confirmation that the car has been built, and a confirmed delivery date. I don't believe my CA or the Dealership itself, are that knowledgable of the ED process and in fact I've had to guide them a bit. Luckily, I've had the the benefit of this very informative forum to guide me...Thanks All!

Regards,
Mike


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I believe more details will be available next week - and you will be able to rent tires.


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

Jspira said:


> what does it mean, to lead someone (citizens or otherwise) around by the nose?


I assume he is suggesting that the US is a very rules-based society. They have very specific rules for almost every situation. This reduces ambiguity, but leads to a mindset where the motivation is to simply comply with the rules and not to consider whether what you are doing makes any sense (e.g., driving on summer tyres in Germany in winter).

In contrast, some other places are more principles-based. This allows for more use of common sense in order to get to the outcome that the lawmakers want, but brings in uncertainty about whether you are complying and has the potential for more inconsistent application of the rules.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

For the love of god this thread is way out of hand. Somehow we have "experts" in international law and German law railing on JSpira when he's just trying to help y'all out and keep everybody informed. Fortunately, my personal army of first year attorney robot rookies have told me that they are too busy working pro bono to enforce the DNR order for the last poor schmuck with 20 posts who drove into a tree while driving in a huge snowstorm with summer tires in the alps than to worry about analyzing the legality of the waiver he signed indemnifying BMW of liability in his imminent death.


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## DavidNY (Feb 18, 2006)

Me530 said:


> For the love of god this thread is way out of hand. Somehow we have "experts" in international law and German law railing on JSpira when he's just trying to help y'all out and keep everybody informed. Fortunately, my personal army of first year attorney robot rookies have told me that they are too busy working pro bono to enforce the DNR order for the last poor schmuck with 20 posts who drove into a tree while driving in a huge snowstorm with summer tires in the alps than to worry about analyzing the legality of the waiver he signed indemnifying BMW of liability in his imminent death.


+1

In addition, people who are real experts would never identify themselves as experts. They let their knowledge stand on its own.


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## DavidNY (Feb 18, 2006)

CAPT1809 said:


> Tell you what, J: You handle your transcontinental transactions the way you want and I'll do the same. Unless and until you have the authority to bind BMW to your representations (not the case) your statements (like mine) are info only have no legal effect on third parties
> 
> Thanks, but I'll rely on hard-copy documents - and those documents alone. Out here.


The term "officious" comes to mind whenver I read one of your posts.


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## IrvRobinson (May 10, 2006)

There certainly are a wide variety of personalities on all of these forums.I agree that until BMW makes an official statement,everyone is entitled to their own opinion ,whether right or wrong,but for me, the only one that is correct,is from the Director Of European Delivery or someone above them in the organization.


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## horatiub (Aug 25, 2004)

Irv, any updates on this? Did the guys at the ED center mentioned anything about this?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

horatiub said:


> Irv, any updates on this? Did the guys at the ED center mentioned anything about this?


The only update will be when a snow tire rental program is finalized. BMW is hoping for news at the end of this week (that leaves one day). Otherwise, the waiver that I posted is final although BMW will have a cover letter to go with it to explain it more.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

Ucan said:


> Absolutely agreed - Thanks to Jspira and all the other dedicated forum members for their time and efforts to inform bimmerfest community. Given the day-to-day committments, it's a really hard job to find the time and motivation to try to help everyone out with tens of posts everyday for years.
> 
> Personally, I benefited a lot (especially during my ED) and am looking forward to reading the interesting discussions and info posted.


Multiple Dittos. Thanks Jspira to you, and to all you great Festers. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## IrvRobinson (May 10, 2006)

I discussed it at some length when I was there and Jonathan had called also,so he's definitely on top of this issue,so let's see how it plays out.They will come up with their position on this and it will be their "Official Statement",so let's wait and see !


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

It´s very dependent on the completion of the interior of BMW Welt and the testing of the technology in the building.

The Tag der öffenen Tür will take place several months before deliveries start to take place at BMW Welt.


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## horatiub (Aug 25, 2004)

IrvRobinson said:


> I discussed it at some length when I was there and Jonathan had called also,so he's definitely on top of this issue,so let's see how it plays out.They will come up with their position on this and it will be their "Official Statement",so let's wait and see !


thanks Irv


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## jkc_335 (Oct 30, 2006)

I just received the email message from European Delivery at BMWNA. I wrote to Mr. Noder just now. Let's see what the details are....

Here is the message from BMWNA:

We just finalized the snow tire rental and the contact below has all of the details.

email: [email protected]

BMW Räder und Reifenzentrum

Daimlerstraße 21

85748 Garching Hochbrück

Tel: 0049 89 3535 20

Fax 2143


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## panzer948 (Sep 8, 2006)

great, can't wait to see the results.


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## jkc_335 (Oct 30, 2006)

Unfortunately I got an 'out of the office' message back from Thomas Noder. He seems to be on vacation until Jan 8. I am trying to see if I can get the information from someone else. I am picking up on Dec 20 so I need to figure this out pretty soon.


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## panzer948 (Sep 8, 2006)

Wow, I find that to be pretty lousy (if he is truly out). I mean, make someone your contact person for a new policy that comes into effect about the same time he goes on vacation for a month! Surely BMW isn't that stupid!


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## simpsmk (Sep 8, 2006)

I received the same message....I think. It was in German, but it sure looked like a "have a great holiday and I'll see you on the 8th". Does anyone know of another contact person? I'm picking up a 335i next Monday December 18th.

Thanks,
Mike


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## robdaemon (Nov 20, 2006)

simpsmk said:


> I received the same message....I think. It was in German, but it sure looked like a "have a great holiday and I'll see you on the 8th". Does anyone know of another contact person? I'm picking up a 335i next Monday December 18th.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


I'm getting my 335i on the 19th, so I'm very interested in this also.

My planned drop-off is in Amsterdam on the 28th, so hopefully this will work!!!


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## jkc_335 (Oct 30, 2006)

I just got off the phone with the delivery center in Munich. They still seem to be irnoning out the last details of the snow tire program. 

But here are a few more details. For the 3 series and 17'' rims they are selling a set of snow tires and rims for about 1300 Euros. 

If the car is returned to Munich then the tires and rims can be returned in which case 650 Euros will be refunded. The rental cost therefore is approx. 650 Euro's. I am not sure if this depends on the duration of the rental. In my case it is 10 days. 

If the tires and rims are not returned, for example because the car is not dropped off in Munich, then they ship the original tires to the dealer in the US. This will be at an additional charge. So, if the purchase option is exercised, it will be the 1300 Euro plus shipping costs. If I understood correctly they are still negotiating the shipping costs but I was told it could be around 400 Euros. They are also trying to offer two choices for the rim style of the 17'' rims that go with the snow tires but this is not finalized yet. 

This is what I was told over the phone. Details may still change, so the best thing is probably if all those picking up in the next couple of days call ahead of time. The delivery center may also need some advance warning so that they can get the car ready with the correct tires.


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## jkc_335 (Oct 30, 2006)

panzer948 said:


> Wow, I find that to be pretty lousy (if he is truly out). I mean, make someone your contact person for a new policy that comes into effect about the same time he goes on vacation for a month! Surely BMW isn't that stupid!


:rofl:

I was quite surprised to say the least when I got that email back. But then again, it is the holiday season and these Europeans take their holidays very seriously. In any case, I managed to get some information from the delivery center in Munich (see previous post).


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## robdaemon (Nov 20, 2006)

jkc_335 said:


> But here are a few more details. For the 3 series and 17'' rims they are selling a set of snow tires and rims for about 1300 Euros.


Ouch!

I wonder if I can get them to just put 18" snow tires on the car and ship the real tires to the dealer here in Los Angeles. I don't need to buy another set of wheels considering I'll never use the snow tires in LA!


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

robdaemon said:


> Ouch!
> 
> I wonder if I can get them to just put 18" snow tires on the car and ship the real tires to the dealer here in Los Angeles. I don't need to buy another set of wheels considering I'll never use the snow tires in LA!


You can ask them, but given that they had so much trouble getting this program out the door, I would not think it likely.

If your 18" wheels are staggered, however, the answer is probably not since there are no staggered snows AFAIK.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

Jspira said:


> If your 18" wheels are staggered, however, the answer is probably not since there are no staggered snows AFAIK.


We couldn't find any staggered sizes in the factory winter tire recommendations!


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## shosan521 (Nov 14, 2006)

Knew it would be spendy...didn't think it would be that spendy! Wonder if they are going to make the prices even higher for the 5...


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

shosan521 said:


> Knew it would be spendy...didn't think it would be that spendy! Wonder if they are going to make the prices even higher for the 5...


Well my question is - do they always offer brand new tires and rims? Or do you get the priviledge for paying top $ for used items??


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

650 Euros may not be that bad since I plan on returning the car to Munich and I'll be there for almost a week. If anything it buys some peace of mind.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

adc said:


> Well my question is - do they always offer brand new tires and rims? Or do you get the priviledge for paying top $ for used items??


Since they are selling them, I am guessing new. But this is a guess.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

So this means I'll have to spend about $1800+ shipping since I'm dropping off in Zurich. That's a little absurd to me.

Jspira, do you think I'll need snow tires in late March? I spent a few days driving around Frankfurt in mid April a couple of years ago and it wasn't even cold, but I'm a little concerned about driving in the alps.


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## desinole (Jul 14, 2006)

Jspira,

Thanks for the info (on the other thread too), but I think BMW should have informed me about this when I placed my order. If there was a change in rules after I placed the order (which is the case) BMW should give me the right equipment, not ask me to spend $900.

I am still waiting for BMW to contact me, they have not. If they do not contact me before I leave, I am not going to sign the waiver and possible not take delivery of the car.


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## desinole (Jul 14, 2006)

What I am trying to say is that I would have picked another time of the year to take delivery and avoid spending $900. I could have gotten my Xenon lights or made two monthly payments.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

desinole said:


> Jspira,
> 
> Thanks for the info (on the other thread too), but I think BMW should have informed me about this when I placed my order. If there was a change in rules after I placed the order (which is the case) BMW should give me the right equipment, not ask me to spend $900.
> 
> I am still waiting for BMW to contact me, they have not. If they do not contact me before I leave, I am not going to sign the waiver and possible not take delivery of the car.


You are welcome.

I recommend you call the Euro Delivery dept. in NJ (main number is +1 201 307-4000) rather than consider not accepting the car.

The rule requiring snow tires has been in place for a while (we this discussed over 12 months ago if not longer here) - BMW simply hadn't finalized a way of offering tires.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

desinole said:


> What I am trying to say is that I would have picked another time of the year to take delivery and avoid spending $900. I could have gotten my Xenon lights or made two monthly payments.


Not trying to rub salt in a wound but the winter problem is well known and has been discussed here and covered in BMW's brochure for the car itself.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

335i Driver said:


> Jspira, do you think I'll need snow tires in late March? I spent a few days driving around Frankfurt in mid April a couple of years ago and it wasn't even cold, but I'm a little concerned about driving in the alps.


Late March weather is similar to early November weather and you SHOULD be ok but be prepared to be flexible.


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## desinole (Jul 14, 2006)

> (we this discussed over 12 months ago if not longer here


That could be true, but there has been no formal information from BMW. Not when I placed my order, not when I signed the papers, not even when they sent me a letter saying my car was ready for pickup.

My question is why should I be paying for them being lazy.

And yes I am going to call the ED office, once I come back from lunch. Maybe a food will make me less mad.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

It would be great if insurance companies in the US refused to cover you if you caused an accident while driving with summer tires in a snowstorm.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Me530 said:


> It would be great if insurance companies in the US refused to cover you if you caused an accident while driving with summer tires in a snowstorm.


 +1


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

desinole said:


> And yes I am going to call the ED office, once I come back from lunch. Maybe a food will make me less mad.


,,Mahlzeit``


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Me530 said:


> It would be great if insurance companies in the US refused to cover you if you caused an accident while driving with summer tires in a snowstorm.


That is the case here PLUS a very rather hefty fine. Ok, it would depend on your policy, but there are ways for insurance companies to get out of covering you.

.


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## simpsmk (Sep 8, 2006)

Ouch! 

Does anyone have an idea how much it would cost to rent a car with snow tires for a week? Ufortunately, that would mean not being able to drive my new car in europe but it does seem that it might be a less costly option. I guess another consolation would be there is a reduced risk of damaging the car while driving in snow conditions. 
Of course on the positive side, there is always the possibility that the car could make it to the states for redelivery a little earlier. 

The idea that I wouldn't be able to drive the car on the roads for which it was designed, is a real bummer!


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

335i Driver said:


> So this means I'll have to spend about $1800+ shipping since I'm dropping off in Zurich. That's a little absurd to me.


Will you buy a set of winter wheels/tires for your IL winter driving anyway? :dunno:

1300 EUR for a set of 4 wheels and winter tires sounds pretty damn cheap to me!

BMW.fi had 16" wheels (don't recall the Style) with Continental Alpin Sport winter tires (not studded) for 3er and 5er, costing 2100 EUR, mounted and balanced. And that was a winter discount offer through and any BMW dealership.

Even that is a good deal IMHO.

.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

simpsmk said:


> The idea that I wouldn't be able to drive the car on the roads for which it was designed, is a real bummer!


Thanks to global warming, probably in another 10-20 years it will never snow again and we'll all look back at this thread and laugh. :angel:

Seriously, you could just wait and see- the week you are there the weather could be unusualy warm and the roads free and clear of snow outside of the mountains.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Will you buy a set of winter wheels/tires for your IL winter driving anyway? :dunno:
> 
> 1300 EUR for a set of 4 wheels and winter tires sounds pretty damn cheap to me!
> 
> ...


No, I have no place to store and extra set of wheels. Also, I don't drive to work and back and also travel so much on business I simply don't drive enough miles to justify purchasing an extra set of wheels. If it's truly that bad I'll just stay home.

I have an AWD car now and I can only think of 2 times in 5 years that I actually needed the AWD.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Patrick said:


> 1300 EUR for a set of 4 wheels and winter tires sounds pretty damn cheap to me!


1300 EUR for a set of winter tires and wheels is expensive for the US. TireRack sells a set of 17" ASA JH3 with Blizzak LM25 for:

$940 + $66 shipping + $188 TPMS = $1194 total

:dunno:

My biggest question is this - say you pay 1300 EUR initially and then return the tires 1000 miles later and get 650 EUR back. Now what happens to the slightly used tires? Does BMW throw them away, or do they sell them to the next lucky ED customer? :dunno:


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## desinole (Jul 14, 2006)

Question, do I need snow chains (driving in austria) if I have winter tires ?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

desinole said:


> Question, do I need snow chains (driving in austria) if I have winter tires ?


That depends on how deep the snow is ... 

.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

desinole said:


> Question, do I need snow chains (driving in austria) if I have winter tires ?


chains are required in some regions, more info here


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