# zhp outside mirrors



## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

Does anyone know if the zhp outside mirrors are heated?


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## wheel-man (Sep 28, 2004)

ChosenGSR said:


> Does anyone know if the zhp outside mirrors are heated?


 :dunno: good question...


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

ZHP's mirrors are nuclear powered. :tsk:


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## KrisL (Dec 22, 2001)

All USA E46 outside mirrors are heated I believe.


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## Bobby 325i (Oct 18, 2002)

KrisL said:


> All USA E46 outside mirrors are heated I believe.


You sir are correct. This is standard on all E46 Sedan/Wagon/Coupes.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

How does one activate one's heated outside mirrors on one's E46?


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## Bobby 325i (Oct 18, 2002)

philippek said:


> How does one activate one's heated outside mirrors on one's E46?


They're on all the time while the car is running.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

philippek said:


> How does one activate one's heated outside mirrors on one's E46?


  Where do you work again??


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

ff said:


> What's a ZHP? I've never heard of one before.
> 
> Yes, your *330i's* outside mirrors are heated.


I am starting to get tired of people hating on ZHP posts. Listen, the ZHP does have differences that quite frankly some of us don't know. For a freaking example the ZHP rearview mirror is NOT auto-dimming while I believe other packages include that. So please if you have nothing constructive to add don't say anything at all.

Oh, and I drive a CI.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Where do you work again??


IRVINE BMW
9881 RESEARCH DRIVE
IRVINE, CA 92618

949-387-8251 (DIRECT)
www.irvinebmw.net


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

philippek said:


> IRVINE BMW
> 9881 RESEARCH DRIVE
> IRVINE, CA 92618
> 
> ...


Yeah, so aren't they supposed to _teach_ ya this stuff? :dunno:


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Yeah, so aren't they supposed to _teach_ ya this stuff? :dunno:


Do you think I'd be on this board if they did?


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

ff said:


> It's a 330i with another overpriced option package. End of story.


This attitude is getting more tired than the ZHP chorus.


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

ff said:


> It's a 330i with another overpriced option package. End of story.


That totally kicks A$$!!!

Seriously, though, the Performance Package (codename ZHP!) does have some weight reducing features and stuff that could possibly lead someone to wonder. Same way someone might question if a regular 3 series shares a certain feature with an ///M series car. And, it's way easier to type Z-H-P than P-E-R-F-O-R-M-A-N-C-E P-A-C-K-A-G-E (especially with all caps and dashes).


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

Anyway, before any more hating takes place... Thank you to those who answered my question, now I know. :thumbup:


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## kyyuan (Jul 14, 2002)

ChosenGSR said:


> Anyway, before any more hating takes place... Thank you to those who answered my question, now I know. :thumbup:


Just tell those ZHP haters to get lost. I posted a ZHP specific question and received similar attitude. If I get to meet them in person, I'll.....

Most sane and reasonable ZHP owners realize their cars are just regular 330s with different options. People are so rude these days.

Ken


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

kyyuan said:


> I posted a ZHP specific question and received similar attitude.


My ZHP beep at me three times this morning and flashed 37 degrees. Does your ZHP do that too?


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## kyyuan (Jul 14, 2002)

The HACK said:


> My ZHP beep at me three times this morning and flashed 37 degrees. Does your ZHP do that too?


No. Because it was in an accident and requires $10k worth of repairing. Any more questions?


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Why the hell is it that it's only ZHP owners that have this problem? I never see this complex from any M3 owners, considering they're far more entitled to it.


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## kyyuan (Jul 14, 2002)

Kaz said:


> Why the hell is it that it's only ZHP owners that have this problem? I never see this complex from any M3 owners, considering they're far more entitled to it.


What problems? Entitled to what?

What is wrong with ZHP owners asking questions about ZHP only options? I asked a question about ZHP bumpers (for a clear bra), and people gave me a hard time to the effect that "ZHP owners think their cars are different." Well, the ZHP bumpers are different than that of other 330 models (unless one lives in Europe which has the Club Sport). Is that not true? Why do people have to make immature comments? While I know about the nominal difference between ZHP/non-ZHP cars, there are ZHP owners out there who just don't know their cars well, and are trying to learn.

Are there ZHP owners who think their cars are much "better" than other 330s, probably. That's their problem. Not everyone ZHP owner thinks that way. Neither the question posted in this thread nor my previously posted question has anything to do with "my ZHP is better than your non-ZHP cars." Why can't people read the thread for what it is?

If a ZHP owner believes that the ZHP option is over-valued, then go start another thread about it. The rest of us are just trying to enjoy our cars and learn as much as possible, both about the car and from other festers. Let's be fair and logical about it.

I'm about had it and want to kick somebody's a$$. Bring it on...

Ken


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

ff said:


> Neither does the *330*.


yes but you can get it with the premium package, whoever it is NOT an option with the zhp.


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

This thread reminds me of high school...


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

BlackChrome said:


> This thread reminds me of high school...


I dont know what high school you went to but I used to drive a geo in high school!  :rofl:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

ChosenGSR said:


> I dont know what high school you went to but I used to drive a geo in high school!  :rofl:


Did it have heated mirrors ? :eeps:


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Alex Baumann said:


> Did it have heated mirrors ? :eeps:


 :bustingup


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

ff said:


> As long as you understand that the ZHP is not a 330, then everything is cool.


 :tsk:


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

kurichan said:


> :bustingup


102hp :yikes:


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

ff said:


> As long as you understand that the ZHP is not a 330, then everything is cool.


You are one bitter man.


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## Eduardo (Jul 13, 2004)

ChosenGSR said:


> I dont know what high school you went to but I used to drive a geo in high school!  :rofl:


You are all rich snobs!!! 

I took public (mass) transit during high school and my first year at the University!


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

ChosenGSR said:


> 102hp :yikes:


Probably dropped to 75 usable HP when the mirror heaters were on. :bustingup

Ever heard that joke about Hondas (I like Hondas, but this one is funny).

So a guy pulls up next to me at a stoplight in a lowered Honda with a coffee can muffler, looks over at my ride, fiddles with the dash, then starts revving his engine.

So I think he wants to race.

The light turns green and I leave him in the dust.

We get to the next stoplight and I roll down my window and say "you revved your engine; I thought you wanted to race. What happened?"

He says, no, I just turned on my airconditioning...


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## DrivingMaryland (Jun 16, 2004)

kurichan said:


> Probably dropped to 75 usable HP when the mirror heaters were on. :bustingup


When the AC was on the car would barely move up hill thats for sure  Once I had about 500 lbs worth of people in that car and it nearly died going up a steep hill :rofl:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

kurichan said:


> Probably dropped to 75 usable HP when the mirror heaters were on. :bustingup


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## voornas (Sep 17, 2004)

ff-

Take a 330 ci (even SP) around any, and I mean ANY turn. Then take the same turn turn in a 330 ci ZHP. Spec sheets don't relay how this car feels. This is by far the best handling 3 series coupe ever to roll out of the factory. And while the motor isn't as stout an M3, line up next to one with a 330i and yes you will be looking at it's taillights the whole way. Fact. All ZHP guys know what I mean. A 330i is a great car. Just don't race a ZHP for something more than laughs...


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

voornas said:


> ff-
> 
> Take a 330 ci (even SP) around any, and I mean ANY turn. Then take the same turn turn in a 330 ci ZHP. Spec sheets don't relay how this car feels. This is by far the best handling 3 series coupe ever to roll out of the factory. And while the motor isn't as stout an M3, line up next to one with a 330i and yes you will be looking at it's taillights the whole way. Fact. All ZHP guys know what I mean. A 330i is a great car. Just don't race a ZHP for something more than laughs...


A ZHP-eqipped 330i (happy, ff?) is to a 330i as a BoxsterS is to a Boxster. It's not even about badging. It's just convienence to say one over the other. However, there are sufficient amount of changes to distinguish between the two models. BoxsterS is just marketing since they could have easily done the same as BMW and just used an options package, for example Porsche's TT x51 package or BMW's ZHP. I bet BMW considered separating a ZHP-equipped car from the rest of the line, but that would require rebadging and money, and BMW is trying to make money with least costs here, so an options package sufficed.

And, ff, every manufacturer does something similar. Mazda uses Mazdaspeed for its new Miata with the turbocharger. Perhaps it's different but it's along the same lines of having an apperance, suspension, and engine upgrade. They chose to use Mazdaspeed instead of a package. I bet people may or may not distinguish that car from the other miatas on the road.

I actually have no real point here.. I just wanted to point out some similarties to other car manufacturers. As people we can decide to call our cars whatever they are. It's not like we lie when we say it's a zhp car. In fact, it is a zhp car.


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## Slowin_Fastout (Aug 2, 2004)

voornas said:


> ff-
> 
> Take a 330 ci (even SP) around any, and I mean ANY turn. Then take the same turn turn in a 330 ci ZHP. Spec sheets don't relay how this car feels. This is by far the best handling 3 series coupe ever to roll out of the factory. And while the motor isn't as stout an M3, line up next to one with a 330i and yes you will be looking at it's taillights the whole way. Fact. All ZHP guys know what I mean. A 330i is a great car. Just don't race a ZHP for something more than laughs...


http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50032&highlight=ZHP


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## Slowin_Fastout (Aug 2, 2004)

allaboutme said:


> A ZHP-eqipped 330i (happy, ff?) is to a 330i as a BoxsterS is to a Boxster.


That is not even remotely true. The Boxster S is to a Boxster as an S4 is to A4 or or a WRX STi to a WRX or an EVO VIII MR to an EVO VIII or an M3 to a regular 330i. Or a 911 Turbo vs. 911 Carrera. There's enough fundamental differences between the two physical "models" to make them distinct models according to the manufacturer. You can't order the "S" option on a Boxter to make it a Boxster S...You have to order a Boxster S. Meanwhile, ANY 330i/Ci can be ordered with the ZHP option.


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## Galun (Aug 14, 2002)

voornas said:


> ff-
> 
> Take a 330 ci (even SP) around any, and I mean ANY turn. Then take the same turn turn in a 330 ci ZHP. Spec sheets don't relay how this car feels. This is by far the best handling 3 series coupe ever to roll out of the factory. And while the motor isn't as stout an M3, line up next to one with a 330i and yes you will be looking at it's taillights the whole way. Fact. All ZHP guys know what I mean. A 330i is a great car. Just don't race a ZHP for something more than laughs...


The suspension ain't that different. See my thoughts here. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=523956&postcount=85

With maybe $600 worth of mods, the zhp will be the one staring at the tail lights.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

Slowin_Fastout said:


> That is not even remotely true. The Boxster S is to a Boxster as an S4 is to A4 or or a WRX STi to a WRX or an EVO VIII MR to an EVO VIII or an M3 to a regular 330i. Or a 911 Turbo vs. 911 Carrera. There's enough fundamental differences between the two physical "models" to make them distinct models according to the manufacturer. You can't order the "S" option on a Boxter to make it a Boxster S...You have to order a Boxster S. Meanwhile, ANY 330i/Ci can be ordered with the ZHP option.


Good examples... But I stick by my point that if the factory had badged it from the onset, we would not have this discussion. Engine, suspension, diff, wheels, interior appointments, exterior apperances are all whats available with the ZHP package. Those don't seem much different from what distinguishes and S to a normal Boxster, an S4 to an A4, STi to a WRX, or MR to regular evo, or an M3 from a 330i.

I see the problem on the board as simply a difference of opinion. That's ALL. I for one know my ZHP is a packaged option, but I'm simply comparing to how our ZHP option is an entirely different model in a different situation (aka., manufacturer decision). When you buy a Porsche TT, you often see X51 advertised along side. Now, wouldn't you expect to see a ZHP next to a 330i in the classifieds?


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

Galun said:


> The suspension ain't that different. See my thoughts here. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=523956&postcount=85
> 
> With maybe $600 worth of mods, the zhp will be the one staring at the tail lights.


Galun, I like your analysis of the two cars. 
Where'd you get that 3% figure from for manual BMWs? That number, if true, can only affect the U.S. population since we are, in fact, "the laziest" people in the world.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

allaboutme said:


> Now, wouldn't you expect to see a ZHP next to a 330i in the classifieds?


Good point I had never considered. I think only time will tell. The ZHP option, if BMW markets it and it doesn't chew into ///M sales, could become more than an option package for BMW, depending on how it's received over time. Option packages don't pay for themselves in resale, but if ZHP optioned cars hold their value better than typical options, the ZHP cars could end up being perceived as a quasi model. I suspect that a few years from now "Performance Package" or "ZHP" could start showing up in classifieds as differentiator. Those cars could either (1) sell quicker or (2) sell for a premium. It will be interesting to see what ACTUALLY happens...

I think the 330 : 330 ZHP analogy might end up being similar to the Evo : Evo MR analogy (but not like WRX : STi relationship).


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

ff said:


> ///M-Spec, true or false:
> 
> Shorter gearing requires more + harder revs and shifts to achieve the same speeds that the identical car, w/ taller gearing, requires.
> 
> ...


The RPMs (not revs) will be higher, and depending on redline and/or power curve, shifts could come at lower speeds. But, with shorter gearing, you will get to the speed quicker. My car goes 60 in second gear, real close to the top of the RPM range, but still there. Most daily driving doesn't go much beyond 60, and that is the range that the ZHP should (and I would say normally does) provide an advantage in acceleration over taller geared 330s. Which pretty much answers your second point, except to expound upon it and bring up that launching from a stop usually happens from low RPM and speed. So, shorter gearing will let you zip up to a given speed quicker, again within that 0-60 range most of us stay in within town. As far as sitting in traffic, there should be no difference. Gearing doesn't affect a static state of motion.


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

ff said:


> But you need to rev it higher and longer to get to the same speed. If shorter and shorter gearing is better, why not go all the way. Make it so short that you need to shift every 5 MPH? It sure get's to each 5 MPH increment fast, which means it's a faster car. Right?


Because the gearing they have chosen is a very nice balance of aggressive acceleration and usable range. There's no need to be rediculous about this. Go to the other end of the spectrum, and you might be able to get 80MPG out of your car, but only on the flat or slight down hill, because the radicaly tall gearing wouldn't provide the power necessary to over come aerodynamic, rotating, or mechanical friction.

Seriously, the horse body is swelling in the heat. Can we stop beating it now? You aren't going to find any angle to convince us that taller gearing helps your car accelerate better.


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

Up until reading this thread, I loved my 330Ci ZHP more than life itself. After reading all the informative facts and irrefutable scientific data that has been presented here, I now hate it. Everything about it sucks, and I feel so stupid for letting BMW con me into paying so much for what amounts to absolutely nothing. Not even the realization 232837827382 posts ago that my car comes with heated side mirrors can make me appreciate my car again because every 330 comes with this option. I guess I just feel so cheated and empty now. I really thought I had something special until today, something completely different, but I was dead wrong. :bawling:


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

TLudwig said:


> Up until reading this thread, I loved my 330Ci ZHP more than life itself. After reading all the informative facts and irrefutable scientific data that has been presented here, I now hate it. Everything about it sucks, and I feel so stupid for letting BMW con me into paying so much for what amounts to absolutely nothing. Not even the realization 232837827382 posts ago that my car comes with heated side mirrors can make me appreciate my car again because every 330 comes with this option. I guess I just feel so cheated and empty now. I really thought I had something special until today, something completely different, but I was dead wrong. :bawling:


Now, now.. Don't cry.


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## vicszhp (Aug 27, 2004)

TLudwig said:


> Up until reading this thread, I loved my 330Ci ZHP more than life itself. After reading all the informative facts and irrefutable scientific data that has been presented here, I now hate it. Everything about it sucks, and I feel so stupid for letting BMW con me into paying so much for what amounts to absolutely nothing. Not even the realization 232837827382 posts ago that my car comes with heated side mirrors can make me appreciate my car again because every 330 comes with this option. I guess I just feel so cheated and empty now. I really thought I had something special until today, something completely different, but I was dead wrong. :bawling:


I'm done too, Im selling the zhp and buying a 87 Toyota Tercel. I think there was a test conducted where the tercel actually beat out the zhp in the quarter mile in similar weather conditions...

I may even go public bus transportation since it has more torque than the ZHP

Somebody help me.


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## ///M-Spec (Jun 3, 2004)

ff said:


> ///M-Spec, true or false:
> 
> Shorter gearing requires more + harder revs and shifts to achieve the same speeds that the identical car, w/ taller gearing, requires.
> 
> ...


Your persistence on this topic is very amusing. The short answer to your question is _true_ and _it depends_. The long answer is the question is loaded. I'll tell you why:

The ZHP 3.07 rear end is 4.8% shorter than the stock 2.93. Convinently, BMW wisely increased the redline of the ZHP varient by.... well whadduya know... 6,500 (standard redline) x 1.048 = 6,800 (ZHP redline). Those clever Germans...

So as a non-ZHP and ZHP goes down the street, whatever speed they are travelling, the ZHP is using the _same portion_ of its rev-range as the non-ZHP.

Now 4.8% is not very much when you're counting revs. 3,000 RPM vs. 3,144 is nothing. But 4.8% is quite useful when you're talking about torque multiplication in the lower gears. At the same throttle position, it costs the ZHP optioned car very little over the non-ZHP car.

BMW motors spin. That's how they make power. Just like muscle cars have big CID and turbo cars have boost. Take away that advantage and you're just 'fixing' the game. If you think using more revs is nessessarily a bad thing, why don't you head over to the M3 forum and have a chat with them about it.

Go tell those crazy nuts to swap their 3.64s for a nice set of 2.93s.. or maybe some 2.62s from a diesel. Hell, they'll probably go faster! Since you're out spreading the word, cruise by the S2000 forums and tell those fools to ditch their 4.11s and get a better rear gear like a 2.34. Let us know how it goes, okay?


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

///M-Spec said:


> Your persistence on this topic is very amusing. The short answer to your question is _true_ and _it depends_. The long answer is the question is loaded. I'll tell you why:
> 
> The ZHP 3.07 rear end is 4.8% shorter than the stock 2.93. Convinently, BMW wisely increased the redline of the ZHP varient by.... well whadduya know... 6,500 (standard redline) x 1.048 = 6,800 (ZHP redline). Those clever Germans...
> 
> ...


Well put. :bow:


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

TLudwig said:


> Up until reading this thread, I loved my 330Ci ZHP more than life itself. After reading all the informative facts and irrefutable scientific data that has been presented here, I now hate it. Everything about it sucks, and I feel so stupid for letting BMW con me into paying so much for what amounts to absolutely nothing.


Flip flopper...


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

I gotta say, I really thought that my love for this car would wear off by now, but it really hasn't. If I totalled this car tomorrow, I can say without a doubt that I would go buy exactly the same thing. For that reason, I find discussions like this pretty amusing. I think these arguments are the result of people who aren't as happy with their car as I am.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

I assure you that I am very happy with my car :thumbup:


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

allaboutme said:


> I assure you that I am very happy with my car :thumbup:


 :thumbup: I wasn't really being too serious, and I was definitely referring more to some here than to others.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

TLudwig said:


> :thumbup: I wasn't really being too serious, and I was definitely referring more to some here than to others.


Off topic :rofl: , but with your OEM aluminum pedals, does the rubber come off? The guy at 330i.net said that the rubber material started coming off his pedals not too long after he mounted them.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

ff said:


> Shorter gearing requires more + harder revs and shifts to achieve the same speeds that the identical car, w/ taller gearing, requires.


A car with a shorter first gear will need to rev up to a higher rpm than a car with a taller first gear to reach the same speed, but each stroke of the shorter-geared engine is easier for the engine than the stroke of the taller-geared engine, and so the first engine can increase its revs at a faster rate. If you ride a bike with a gear shifter, you'd realize it's easier for you to pump your legs faster pushing with less force at a shorter gear than pumping slower but harder with a taller gear.



> True or false: Cars with shorter gearing are less fast in everyday driving. And when I say everday driving, I mean normal launches, no redline runs, sitting in traffic, etc.


False. Cars with shorter gearing will reach speed X in less time than a car with taller gearing, during normal launches, whatever. As long as throttle is the same between cars, the car with shorter gearing will accelerate faster. When the cars have reached the same speed, the car with shorter gearing will have its engine rotating at a higher rpm consuming more gas than the car with taller gearing. If your constraint is that both cars are limited to like 2500 rpm, then yes, the shorter-geared car will be slower. If your constraint is that both cars can't go faster than 40 mph, the shorter-geared car will reach that speed in less time.

Since the torque peak is at 3500 rpm for both cars and the horsepower peak is at 5900, the shorter-geared car will get into that peak in less time, and hence get into the torque/power peak sooner, and thus accelerate faster.

For everyday driving, a shorter-geared car can be better. For example, a shorter 2nd gear for the ZHP means 2nd is usable at lower speeds than 2nd gear in a regular 330i (because the ZHP's engine will be at a higher rpm and won't be as bogged down as the other 3's engine).


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

FenPhen said:


> False. Cars with shorter gearing will reach speed X in less time than a car with taller gearing, during normal launches, whatever. As long as throttle is the same between cars, the car with shorter gearing will accelerate faster.


A while ago I swapped a 3.45 for a 3.91 - 13% shorter - as part of a warranty claim on a series of failing 3.45 diffs. I have dropped from 28 mph/1000 rpm in top to 25, so the car is less relaxed at 100 mph+, but in every gear the car feels significantly quicker and livelier. The only complaint is that 3rd is now too short (it was short before), and despite BMW's claims I have lost some fuel economy. But clearly the shorter rear end helps low-speed (< 75 mph) acceleration greatly.


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## ///M-Spec (Jun 3, 2004)

ff said:


> I own an S2000, so I know all about short gearing. And I know all about how fast the car is when you really flog it. And know all about how slow it is when you don't (i.e. everyday driving).


I love S2000s. Great little cars. I have a couple of good friends that pretty much scared me right out of SCCA B-Stock with those things while I had my E36 M3. If I didn't have a 2 year old child and another on the way, that's what I'd be driving too.

Maybe you can go into business supplying 'tall performance rear differentials' for the St00k. Heck a good 3.15 would probably really wake that car right up. For the ultimate upgrade, you can just custom order a 1:1 ring gear. I bet that'd get the S into the high 12s. Hmmm. I noticed no one seems to carry these. I wonder why. But go for it anyway. You'd have the market _cornered_. Good luck.


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

allaboutme said:


> Off topic :rofl: , but with your OEM aluminum pedals, does the rubber come off? The guy at 330i.net said that the rubber material started coming off his pedals not too long after he mounted them.


Nope. Absolutely no problems so far. After I clean them every month or so, they look brand new. :thumbup: One other thing, I like the weight or feel of the accelerator much better than with the stock pedals.


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## voornas (Sep 17, 2004)

TLudwig

Couldn't agree with you anymore!

I'd buy another zhp coupe in a heartbeat. :thumbup:


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## wheel-man (Sep 28, 2004)

voornas said:


> TLudwig
> 
> Couldn't agree with you anymore!
> 
> I'd buy another zhp coupe in a heartbeat. :thumbup:


dido. the car is that good and i only have 200miles on it :thumbup:


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