# Wife put gas into the Diesel X5



## dga (Dec 21, 2010)

Why should someone other than the responsible person pay???


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

dga said:


> Why should someone other than the responsible person pay???


Not much different than a collision? The responsible person pays a deductible. I agree with you though principally.

The 2 stations I frequent the most have dedicated diesel pumps. (brand name, low price, busy location = fresh fuel)


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

dga said:


> Why should someone other than the responsible person pay???


I'd have to agree.

As much as I feel for the people involved, it's not like the vehicle didn't warn the driver (fuel gauge says Diesel on it, and the cap also says Diesel in easily visible letters).

Did wifey not know it burns diesel, or were the pumps confusing?

I would say that there needs to be a standard color at the pump, much like any portable container for kerosene is always blue (at least in the US). That could help.

At the end of the day however, it comes down to attention to detail.


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## rbreding (Sep 6, 2016)

I guess it helps to have 3 diesel vehicles but I have drilled the fuel station stops into her brain many times.

We even had a conversation last night about Matt's fueling mishap. She asked if she should leave the vehicle running or turn it off in response. It was a good question and glad she picked up on that detail, but told her it really didn't matter.

One thing I have found in training her is we use a fuel additive. It is right next to the glove in the trunks. The glove is necessary for most diesel handles due to spills and it is a reminder to use the current pump. 

Maybe write "diesel only" on the palm of the glove for more reminders for the wife.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

dga said:


> Why should someone other than the responsible person pay???


This is a complex question when it comes to automobiles and houses - some insurance will cover misfueling (and it is an attractive feature to some), so in effect, the individual is allowed to make a mistake and pay a deductible and increased rates in the future. If you leave the water on by mistake and it floods the house, would you insist on not asking homeowner's insurance to help pay?

TM


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## drone8 (Mar 18, 2018)

Drain the tank, try to clear the lines of gasoline. Refill tank with diesel, and go for a drive on the highway. I've seen this at work on many occasions, and that's what we did. Mind you, this was trucks. But diesel all the same.

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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Funny where I fill up the diesel nozzles are the ones that have diesel fuel all over them....

op.

If you do trade it, please post the vin. It's the least you can do to make karmic amends....


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

*Yeah, but . . .*



drone8 said:


> Drain the tank, try to clear the lines of gasoline. Refill tank with diesel, and go for a drive on the highway. I've seen this at work on many occasions, and that's what we did. Mind you, this was trucks. But diesel all the same.
> [/URL]


Yeah, and that works on diesels using WW II technology. It requires a LOT of prayer and enormous amounts of sheer luck to work on modern common rail diesels, however.

The ancient technology used in large diesel engines, such as in your trucks up until very recently, operated at fairly low pressures, and would tolerate a certain amount of crappy fuel, which is what gasoline is here. But the extremely high pressures involved in the engine in question here are such that the system is already very near the maximum tolerance given the right fuel. Put in just a small amount of gasoline, and you all but guarantee catastrophic failure in short order. To then drive the vehicle until it is on the verge of shut-down drives the final nail in its coffin. The odds the system wasn't ruined are akin to the odds of winning the big one in the lottery the same day you get struck by lightning.


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## drone8 (Mar 18, 2018)

Michael47 said:


> Yeah, and that works on diesels using WW II technology. It requires a LOT of prayer and enormous amounts of sheer luck to work on modern common rail diesels, however.
> 
> The ancient technology used in large diesel engines, such as in your trucks up until very recently, operated at fairly low pressures, and would tolerate a certain amount of crappy fuel, which is what gasoline is here. But the extremely high pressures involved in the engine in question here are such that the system is already very near the maximum tolerance given the right fuel. Put in just a small amount of gasoline, and you all but guarantee catastrophic failure in short order. To then drive the vehicle until it is on the verge of shut-down drives the final nail in its coffin. The odds the system wasn't ruined are akin to the odds of winning the big one in the lottery the same day you get struck by lightning.


You are wrong. I am talking about trucks from 2010 and up with high pressure common rail system that go up to 20000 psi in normal operation. If the OP take that his x5 to a shop, they would fleece him for all they can. They would change unnecessary parts, and keep them for side jobs, or for there own vehicle. They x5 is running rough because gasoline is in it, take the gas out, and put diesel for it to run right. If he want to trade it in after, then do that. No point in spending money for parts to trade the x5. I would of done this myself. Get some jugs, and a clear hose from the hardware store, and siphon the gas out. I've been a diesel tech for ten years, this is what we do.

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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

Bosch pump is notorious for metal fragments with the use of poor fuel.

My 02 jetta was fine with a drain and refill but that was not common rail. Got hit shortly after that so we sold it after repair.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

drone8 said:


> You are wrong. I am talking about trucks from 2010 and up with high pressure common rail system that go up to 20000 psi in normal operation. If the OP take that his x5 to a shop, they would fleece him for all they can. They would change unnecessary parts, and keep them for side jobs, or for there own vehicle. They x5 is running rough because gasoline is in it, take the gas out, and put diesel for it to run right. If he want to trade it in after, then do that. No point in spending money for parts to trade the x5. I would of done this myself. Get some jugs, and a clear hose from the hardware store, and siphon the gas out. I've been a diesel tech for ten years, this is what we do.


I'm sure you are an expert diesel tech, with ten years experience working on the trucks you service. You should be made aware, however, that 20,000 psi qualifies those trucks as low pressure systems even by 2010 standards. My 2001 Jetta diesel runs 24,000 psi, my (now deceased) 2005 Jeep diesel ran 26,000 psi, and I believe you'll find the X5 runs around 29,000 psi.

To be sure (and you would know this even better than I do) most shops will indeed try to fleece the OP for all they can get. Getting the gas out and refilling with diesel would be the first thing to attempt. What I (we) have been saying, in light of it having been run until it all but died on its own, is that that is very unlikely to save the OP from the sad reality that the HPFP is toast and has contaminated everything with metal dust. When the shop drains the fuel, the easy thing to do is look for those metal flakes in the fuel under a microscope. If present, and this is likely), there's no savings or sense in prolonging the inevitable.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

Michael47 said:


> Yeah, and that works on diesels using WW II technology. It requires a LOT of prayer and enormous amounts of sheer luck to work on modern common rail diesels, however.
> 
> The ancient technology used in large diesel engines, such as in your trucks up until very recently, operated at fairly low pressures, and would tolerate a certain amount of crappy fuel, which is what gasoline is here. But the extremely high pressures involved in the engine in question here are such that the system is already very near the maximum tolerance given the right fuel. Put in just a small amount of gasoline, and you all but guarantee catastrophic failure in short order. To then drive the vehicle until it is on the verge of shut-down drives the final nail in its coffin. The odds the system wasn't ruined are akin to the odds of winning the big one in the lottery the same day you get struck by lightning.


That is correct. Older non-common rail diesels without HPFP's could run just about anything through them. The old HUEY and other injection pumps had much lower max pressures and the single shot injectors with larger holes allowed for larger contaminants to pass through without damage.

I worked for Cummins when they switched to common rail on the 5.9L in 2003. The Cummins 5.9L and current 6.7L run the older Bosch CP3 pump that runs a max 26k psi. The other pickup diesels(Ford and GM) and the BMW N47/N57 run the CP4 pump which has a max of 29k psi. The CP3 has greater volume(capable of more fuel/power), but the CP4 has greater pressure to combat emissions at higher power levels. The CP3 is a three piston design with less pressure so it is not as sensitive to overheating and contamination as the higher pressure two piston CP4.2(one piston in the CP4.1). When the CP4 goes due to lack of lubrication(overheating) or other contaminants, it usually grenades taking the whole fuel system with it injectors and all. At least that is the way it is in the bigger trucks that I have more experiences with than these BMW diesels.


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## ct535xidriver (Aug 23, 2010)

Here's our data point - $9k in repairs.


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## drone8 (Mar 18, 2018)

Wow! What did they replace, and how is the engine running?

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## ct535xidriver (Aug 23, 2010)

Still waiting on the insurance co to decide if they'll cover it or not. Once we start its a 10 day project...


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## drone8 (Mar 18, 2018)

Sorry to here, let's hope the do. I'm curious of the outcome.

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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

ct535xidriver said:


> Here's our data point - $9k in repairs.





ct535xidriver said:


> Still waiting on the insurance co to decide if they'll cover it or not. Once we start its a 10 day project...


Thats a dealer guestimate at this point?

What is the extent of the repair?

9k at dealer prices is bsically fuel system repair- but no engine damage.... my guess


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

Indy estimate. Parts list and labor strategy? Full?


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

ct535xidriver said:


> Here's our data point - $9k in repairs.


That's better than I thought it'd be. Hoping for insurance.....


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## MotoWPK (Oct 5, 2012)

Doug Huffman said:


> A venturi nozzle that is fouled and pumps slowly is also likely to not trip on full, so when your patience is exhausted then it's time to pay close attention. I like to hear the fuel rise in the fill pipe.


Don't mean to hijack this thread, but that's an interesting observation. I've had the impression that slow fiowing pumps were the result of needing a filter change, the increased resistance of the old filter causing the slow flow rate. Was not aware that venturi nozzles would foul to the point of causing this.

Imaging what a mess and overflow would be (bad enough with gasoline, which at least will mostly evaporate, but diesel...), I make it a habit to listen for the fuel rising in the fuel pipe with my hand at the ready to close the nozzle. Unfortunately it's more difficult to hear that fuel rise when the flow rate is low.


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