# DSC light comes on (and stays on?) out on the track?



## David Keogh (Feb 25, 2003)

Had my first track day in a while yesterday, so I ran with DSC on the first session. It predictably came on from time to time, especially while cornering on rough pavement (sections of our local track haven't been re-paved in 40+ yrs...)

At some point, it came on and stayed on, until I stopped and restarted the engine. My assumption is that this represents a fault code having been generated. The question is why? I'm running OEM wheels and tires, so I can't imagine the DSC unit getting confused.


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## Chris330Ci (Jan 23, 2002)

Just curious, why are you running with DSC on in the first place..?  I've heard of your scenario happening before, but can't recall the reason behind it. Like you said, generally restarting the car resets everything.


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

This happened to me when I went to meet Rost and his new M5. We took this really twisty road and when starting out, I hit a patch of dirt. DSC kicked on and stayed on until I restarted the engine. Its almost like the computer get tricked into thinking you are on a slick surface the entire time. :dunno:


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## David Keogh (Feb 25, 2003)

Our local racetrack is very unforgiving -- in many spots there is no run-off room, and going off can be very painful. Therefore, I tend to run DSC on in the rain, and sometimes in the dry when I'm shaking the cobwebs off my driving skills.

Near the end of that dry session with DSC on, in the end the DSC ended up shaking my confidence more than it helped. For instance, it would flash on at a given speed around a corner over rough pavement, giving me the impression that I'd have spun if the DSC was off. But going round that same corner at the same speed with DSC off, I can feel the car hop slightly over the rough pavement, but all is well.

I must say that, when the track was wet or slightly damp, there were definitely several times when I would have spun on a corner known for inducing oversteer, had I turned off the DSC. It's a mixed blessing.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

David Keogh said:


> *Had my first track day in a while yesterday, so I ran with DSC on the first session. It predictably came on from time to time, especially while cornering on rough pavement (sections of our local track haven't been re-paved in 40+ yrs...)*


To me, having DSC on at track schools is like flushing $400 down the toilet.:thumbdwn: 

If you are not going to learn how the car actually behaves on the track, why bother paying the $$ to go to it in the first place?:dunno:

The ONLY reason that a D student can possibly bend the car, no matter how tricky the track is, is that the person was driving like an idiot. At CCA schools in CA, either the instructor or the corner workers will make sure that you pull in to the pit long before you go off and bend the car.:thumbup:

At Sears Point, a track not known for run offs, someone asked about DSC and was met with the appropriate snickering from the rest of the group at the general drivers' meeting. If you don't over drive yourself, you are NOT going to need DSC on the track. If you do, you should think long and hard about the way you are and have been driving.

DSC is a crutch that the sooner you can learn to drive without safely, the better.:thumbup: :angel:

As for the light staying on, it is quite easy to confuse DSC. In fact, if your driving needs constant DSC interference, at some point it'll go into the fault mode and the light will stay lit. The only way to reset it is to reboot the DME by restarting the car.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## glowrider (Apr 5, 2003)

I'm sorry stuka, but I disagree that driving with DSC is such a negative. And I happen to doubt that "drivers were snickering" bit too. If anything, seasoned track people would be quite impressed that the guy asked about something like that. You don't do anything you are not comfortable doing on a track. And if it takes a couple of runs with DSC on to get your confidence up and get you going, I don't see a problem with that. To me, it's a sign of maturity. Not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but I just happen to believe you don't do things you aren't comfortable doing.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

glowrider said:


> *I'm sorry stuka, but I disagree that driving with DSC is such a negative. And I happen to doubt that "drivers were snickering" bit too. If anything, seasoned track people would be quite impressed that the guy asked about something like that. You don't do anything you are not comfortable doing on a track. And if it takes a couple of runs with DSC on to get your confidence up and get you going, I don't see a problem with that. To me, it's a sign of maturity. Not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but I just happen to believe you don't do things you aren't comfortable doing. *


I was at Sears, and the snickering was quite evident during the Drivers Meeting. The reason for the snickering, I believe, stemed from the fact that the driver was completely missing the point of the school.

Again, if you are going to drive on the track not keeping in mind the dynamics of a RWD car (as in, don't focking charge in to a corner and expect to be able to stamp on the brake and have the back end not to come out), why spend the $400 plus fee?:dunno:

Signs of maturity? I don't think so. The primary goal of a D student should be to learn to get rid of the following bad habits:

1. The side mirrors are NOT for you to look at the side of your car.:bustingup

2. Charge in to a corner and expect to be able to stamp the brakes while you are in the corner then be able to turn is just not something that a RWD car will do.:tsk:

3. SIT UP STRAIGHT.:thumbdwn:

4. DSC can't make you breakfast.

5. Throttle induced oversteer is just the nature of the RWD beast.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## JBM3 (May 24, 2003)

The point of the school for whom? Perhaps this driver simply wanted to improve his ability to handle the car in the same circumstances under which he normally drives it. I see no problem with it at all.

I do DE's to find my limits, but that doesnt mean that every driver does them for the same reason. Get what *you* want from the DE and let other people get what *they* want. In other words, STFU and drive.

Confidence has a place on the track, arrogance does not.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

JBM3 said:


> *I do DE's to find my limits, but that doesnt mean that every driver does them for the same reason. Get what you want from the DE and let other people get what they want. In other words, STFU and drive.
> 
> Confidence has a place on the track, arrogance does not. *


 

If telling people that leaving DSC on for the track is arrogant, then I'll be your personal arrogant prick.:flipoff:

I have seen and ridden with so many bimmer drivers who have NO idea that they are triggering DSC. And yes, DSC is working even when the light is NOT on. Having seen all that, I believe that it is safer for people to learn to drive with DSC off on the track.:thumbup:

Sure, drive with DSC on, DSC will save your behind, cook you breakfast, get you women, and bring world peace.

Again, oversteer, be it power or lift induced, IS the nature of the RWD beast. Tame it, or forever be held back by it.:thumbup: :bigpimp:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG
Resident member of arrogant DSC off prick who won't STFU


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## David Keogh (Feb 25, 2003)

Thread hijacked!

On the one hand, I pray I'm never at a driver's meeting where other drivers snicker when someone asks a question, no matter how misled they might be.

On the other hand, I'm more and more convinced that I should leave DSC off (or as Stuka points out, at least the part of DSC I can turn off).

Don Kitsch, who runs ProFormance racing up here, gave me the best advice regarding "taming the beast". He said that anytime we find ourselves worried that the car will do something nasty (usually oversteer), to "make it do it, before it does it". In other words, find a safe spot on the track, and intentionally push the limit to induce oversteer/understeer. My car has scary limits on the track, and I don't think I've had enough practice yet on inducing (and therefore managing) those limits.


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## David Keogh (Feb 25, 2003)

The plot thickens. Yesterday while sitting in stop-and-go traffic, the DSC light came on by itself and stayed on permanently. DSC was, in fact, active, even though the warning light was lit.

Furthermore, two days ago, I started the car and the HK spatializer button wasn't lit (it's always on when you first start the car).

Now I'm beginning to suspect some kind of electrical issue...


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## in_d_haus (Jan 2, 2002)

Sorry Stuka, but as a DE instructor I have to totally disagree with your assumption that leaving DSC on is a waste of time...Bill Auberlin, in a receint article about tracking BMW would disagree with you as well. 

DSC can be an invaluable learning tool. It will point out where you are not smooth, except in the case of the 5% of people who can actually push one of these cars to the very limit (Most people at a club event will never get this good)

I encourage all novice and intermediate drivers to drive, at least sometimes, with the DSC on...it will point out to you where you can improve. When you can push the car hard and not have it come on around a track THEN you can turn it off and push that extra little bit....this advice came from the Auberlin article.

I'll see if I can dig up the article, don't remember which mag I read it in.

EDIT: even though I'm an instructor I still do laps with it on occasionally to check myself.


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## Cracc408 (Jul 15, 2008)

David Keogh said:


> Had my first track day in a while yesterday, so I ran with DSC on the first session. It predictably came on from time to time, especially while cornering on rough pavement (sections of our local track haven't been re-paved in 40+ yrs...)
> 
> At some point, it came on and stayed on, until I stopped and restarted the engine. My assumption is that this represents a fault code having been generated. The question is why? I'm running OEM wheels and tires, so I can't imagine the DSC unit getting confused.


i had that happen to me. but my situation was different. i saw a 3 series and having a m3 i wasnt going to let a 3 series pass me up easily. so i turn DSC off and downshift to 2 then 3 hit em with the 40 to 80-90 really quick and i did. and soon after i drove with it on for 1-2 hours and realized i had it off. so i decided to pull over and turn it back on. and nothing. a few tries after nothing. dsc was still on in the dash. went to autozone got a odb 2 scanner. NO FAULT codes. So i took it to a shop had my mechanic run diagnostic tests, and it came to be a steering sensor angle sensor or something like that.

( * i did notice my car goes straight with the steering wheel more to the right side. * * had recent alignment and tire change also** )

so he told me i had to leave the car there for a whole day so he can open it up and see what the problem is : bad wiring or a new sensor to be replaced. he also told me my dsc had no problems. the sensor caused it to turn off. nothing involving speed sensor for the wheels

i have read and checked other sites and some poeple DSC does not work or function at all. mine works but stays off because of a steering angle sensor or something like that. probaly Wednesday or thursday and i'll have the update


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