# More automakers dragged into diesel scandal - BMW still clean



## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2012)

You know it couldn't just be VW diesels, emitting more emissions than they should be. The recent VW diesel scandal has been bringing out more issues with other auto manufacturers and so far, BMW is still clean.

According to an article from the Guardian, Honda, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi and others all have diesel cars that emit more pollution while driven, than they do during emissions tests. The somewhat good news is there doesn't seem to be any defeat devices on the vehicles, like VW was using. It does, however, look like carmakers are designing their vehicles to perform better for lab testing situations, rather than in the real world. Great to make the cars seem compliant, bad for the environment._ 'Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU's NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.'_

It is good to see that BMW still isn't mentioned. However, it's not looking good for diesel. Maybe we'll see some changes in testing now that more issues are being brought to light.

_Source The Guardian_


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> You know it couldn't just be VW diesels, emitting more emissions than they should be. The recent VW diesel scandal has been bringing out more issues with other auto manufacturers and so far, BMW is still clean.
> 
> According to an article from the Guardian, Honda, Mazda, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi and others all have diesel cars that emit more pollution while driven, than they do during emissions tests. The somewhat good news is there doesn't seem to be any defeat devices on the vehicles, like VW was using. It does, however, look like carmakers are designing their vehicles to perform better for lab testing situations, rather than in the real world. Great to make the cars seem compliant, bad for the environment._ 'Emissions Analytics had analysed about 50 Euro 6 diesels and 150 Euro 5 diesels, with only five having real-world NOx levels that matched the regulatory test. The failure of the EU's NOx test to limit real-world emissions, and tackle air pollution, has been known for some years, but specific manufacturers have not been named.'_
> 
> ...


The difference between VW and everyone else is VW cheated on the test. The fact that real world emissions are higher is a problem with the test, not the test takers. Its the same with cars not measuring up to mileage ratings in the real world. My favorite example is old 1st to 4th shift on GM 6-speed manual equipped V8 cars that only happens if you drive slowly like during an EPA mileage test. Was that cheating?


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## [email protected] (Aug 15, 2012)

I'd say not cheating, just finding away around a situation, being clever.  It seems like they are all doing it and at some point, they will change the testing.


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## zx10guy (Jan 27, 2014)

cwsqbm said:


> The difference between VW and everyone else is VW cheated on the test. The fact that real world emissions are higher is a problem with the test, not the test takers. Its the same with cars not measuring up to mileage ratings in the real world. My favorite example is old 1st to 4th shift on GM 6-speed manual equipped V8 cars that only happens if you drive slowly like during an EPA mileage test. Was that cheating?


Ah yes. I remember that. I had a 94 Z28 with the T56 Borg Warner trans which was affected by this. To get around it, all one had to do was to unplug the skip shift solenoid on the trans from the ECU. But this would trigger a check engine light. So aftermarket manufacturers came up with a resister plug that simulated the solenoid being there.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

Lab testing can (almost) never completely duplicate real world conditions. But, laboratory testing is repeatable. Field testing always has unknown variables that... vary... that's what variables do.


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

zx10guy said:


> Ah yes. I remember that. I had a 94 Z28 with the T56 Borg Warner trans which was affected by this. To get around it, all one had to do was to unplug the skip shift solenoid on the trans from the ECU. But this would trigger a check engine light. So aftermarket manufacturers came up with a resister plug that simulated the solenoid being there.


I had a C5 Z06 that did the same...all you had to do was drive it was a small bit of zest and it would never happen...you had to be loafing...


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## zx10guy (Jan 27, 2014)

Justin T said:


> I had a C5 Z06 that did the same...all you had to do was drive it was a small bit of zest and it would never happen...you had to be loafing...


I found on my 94 Z28 if I was at about 1/4 throttle, it would be active. Half through and up and I didn't experience the skip shift. In DC area traffic, I ran into the skip shift quite often and it would have been dangerous to give any more throttle input than 1/4 in stop and go traffic.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

BMW's EPA emissions and fuel economy would be better in EcoPro mode. But, to do that they'd have to make EcoPro the default setting. That''d annoy a lot of people. They settle for "Comfort" as the default. But, that's also why you can't set it to start out in Sport as the default.

Most TV sets have as special "high power setting" to be used when the TV's are on display in the store. They're secretive about that and don't make it easy to enable that mode.


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## crazyeyeskilla (Sep 12, 2008)

Audi might want to reconsider its "Truth in Engineering" tagline...


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## AWDDiesel (Sep 26, 2015)

The recent ICCT White Paper on NOx Control Technologies provides some insight into the whole problem. You can get it here:

http://www.theicct.org/sites/default/files/publications/ICCT_NOx-control-tech_revised 09152015.pdf

If you look at the scatter plots on pages 14 and 15, and aren't color blind, you can see BMW does very well compared to the other manufactures in the study. What I found interesting is that if you look at table 1 only the BMWs exported to the North American market use a two stage approach by combining the SCR and LNT methods. This should give a better NOx profile than the single step approach method used in Europe and elsewhere. This should mean that our North American BMWs diesels are the cleanest diesels in the world (at least as far as NOx is concerned).


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

zx10guy said:


> I found on my 94 Z28 if I was at about 1/4 throttle, it would be active. Half through and up and I didn't experience the skip shift. In DC area traffic, I ran into the skip shift quite often and it would have been dangerous to give any more throttle input than 1/4 in stop and go traffic.


That makes sense...do not recall how much throttle it would take but I had mine in the southern suburbs of Phoenix and there was not much traffic.


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