# ista/p power supply options?



## josh1e (Jan 7, 2012)

looking to see what people recommend to keep the voltage up while programming the car using ista/p.

I've got a 2011 520d F11 with quite a few factory extras.

I've seen this  MST-80 , but not much else shows up at around 100A 

anyone had experience of this unit? could recommend something they've had experience with? am in the UK but so long as voltages compatible, happy to import from wherever..

thanks


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Bmw recommends 70 amps for f-series, 50 amps is enough for fully loaded F1x.


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## josh1e (Jan 7, 2012)

Thanks mate, i'll take a look at some lower spec units.. there are some for ham radio enthusiasts available at reasonable prices, but most say not suitable for charging a battery, so unsure if they will cause any issues with the AGM battery being attached..


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

I've had a look at the MST-80 units on eBay and the Maas units the Euro guys use. It just seems like these are pushing 14v with high current capability to the battery. On the face of it, they don't appear suitable for charging a battery, it's just a PSU. So this leads me to wonder if you can use a high quality Mean Well switch mode PSU? They're around $250 it seems.

I'm too scared to try it myself, but logic tells me this will work, although I wouldn't recommend leaving it unattended


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## CarlosF11 (Mar 27, 2013)

I've got an MST-80 (imported from China) which I'm using on my fully loaded 2011 F11, when working with E-sys or ISTA D/P. It's constantly regulating the current at a reasonably constant voltage of around 14.5-14.8V (which you can adjust). One display shows the voltage, other one shows current. 

I'm happy with it, although they had to send me a new voltage display because one of the displays didn't work initially.

Carlo


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

gbyleveldt said:


> I've had a look at the MST-80 units on eBay and the Maas units the Euro guys use. It just seems like these are pushing 14v with high current capability to the battery. On the face of it, they don't appear suitable for charging a battery, it's just a PSU. So this leads me to wonder if you can use a high quality Mean Well switch mode PSU? They're around $250 it seems.
> 
> I'm too scared to try it myself, but logic tells me this will work, although I wouldn't recommend leaving it unattended


PSU is actually better because you want it in Power Supply mode, not charging mode. You'd have to find a PSU which can push >50A on combined 12V rails. my 850Watt Silver PSU can only push 38A on 3x12V rails. Server PSU might just do the job.


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

Hmmm, as I suspected the MST-80 is simply a PSU then. It's not intended as a charger and will simply dump as much current as is needed to maintain its output voltage. So, you must be careful to ensure that the battery in the car is already fully charged before connecting the PSU otherwise the results will be, well, pretty dramatic.

So, one of these PSU's should work fine then:
http://www.mantech.co.za/Datasheets/Products/RSP-1000-MW.pdf

The only reason I would consider something like this is because there's no locally available PSU's designed for programming cars in South Africa. So that means we have to import and then the price can easily double because of shipping weight.


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## josh1e (Jan 7, 2012)

Glad to see it's not just me struggling with the "right" options .. 

What concerns me is that some psu's, especially the maas units, state "not suitable for battery charging".. are they going to harm my expensive AGM battery or BMW's charging system?

Also does the warning mean charging in the traditional context (battery's flat and need to charge to start car, usually with engine / ignition off or disconnected on bench) or charging in a programming sense (keeping voltage / amperage of car at or above required level during coding / flashing with battery attached)


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## gufemur (Jul 14, 2013)

Google a company called power maxx. We used to use them in the dealership I used to work in. They have no buttons other than on and off and work great. Never failed and we're only about 175 us dollars


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

Look, the more I think about this the more it's probably a storm in a teacup. Once a battery is fully charged, connecting such a PSU will be fine - especially once you start programming. Also, a charged battery will draw little current anyway so this will not be a problem. What you should not do, is connect a PSU to a _*flat *_battery. The way to charge a flat battery is to apply a constant current to it - the rule of thumb being 1/10th of the capacity of the battery. This means, in the case of a 110A/hr battery, that you will limit the current of your charger to 11 amps. In this scenario the voltage across the battery will gradually rise until it's fully charged. Now, if you were to connect one of these big PSU's to such a flat battery, the battery will have a very low resistance and will soak up as much current as the PSU can deliver - in this case 80A. This will cause a severe chemical reaction in the battery with potentially catastrophic results.

The reason people are getting away with this is because technically the battery is always charged when you start programming so by itself draws very little current. The additional available current from the PSU is drawn, as needed, by the electronics in the car.

The point is, a standard PSU will be fine provided the battery is charged. At least, that's what my logic is telling me.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

This is how jump-starting automatic cars work. Connect a running car in parallel. Although that is a very short period only and don't know if keeping it connected for a long period have any ill-effect. 

As for programming, I always make sure my battery is 100% charged before starting flashing.And one module at a time.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Full battery has maximum voltage of 12.7V, ecu programming requires over 13V. If you want that the power supply keeps up for example 13.8V which can be considered as safe, power supply must be able to feed all current that a car with ignition on draws. On F1x, while flashing it, current can easily go to 40A even with full battery. If power supply can't handle this, then voltage will drop to battery level.


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## CarlosF11 (Mar 27, 2013)

This is exactly what my MST-80 does. When working with ISTA D/P on my F11 you can see the voltage in ISTA screen fluctuating between 13.6-14.2V, depending on the action performed. During programming the current display on MST-80 shows around 40A.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

That's just how much it was pulling, 40A max?


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## CarlosF11 (Mar 27, 2013)

Yep, sometimes it goes to +/- 42A but that's about it. And my F11 has around 44 ecu's. So a lot of action's going on determining the measure plan in ISTA-P.


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

Hmmm, that's why you need a 70A PSU at least then. Not because the car needs that much, but because the PSU needs to be overrated as it can draw 40A for long periods of time. Many PSUs might only have a 50 or 60% duty cycle. Thanks for the info, I was wondering about that


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Bronze PSUare rated at 80+ (80% efficiency). Gold, I think, is 90+

@CarlosF11, thanks. I feel more confident now with my charger. I wouldn't go crazy and update multiple ECUs in one go though


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

Efficiency and duty cycle is not the same thing. Duty cycle relates to how long something can maintain a specified rating. A PSU rated at 10A with a duty cycle of 50% a minute can only supply 10A for 30 seconds and then needs to cool down. Usually this is not a problem and saves money on switching electronics and cooling. But when you drawing large amounts of power continuously then it becomes important to derate the PSU as a function the duty cycle. In the case of cheap PSUs the duty cycle can even be muuuch lower


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Maas SPS-50 II power supply which I am using has specification for continuous 50A. For a short time it can handle 55A with 50% duty cycle.


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## josh1e (Jan 7, 2012)

Does it matter if the Power Supply is grounded? here in the UK just about everything is grounded however I know in many other countries that isn't always the case. I found this http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500W-15V-100A-adjustable-220V-INPUT-adjustable-Single-Output-Switching-power-supply-AC-to-DC/621557058.html for £150 GBP delivered. Not bad for 15V @ 100A. Seller confirms the unit can run at full output continuously.


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## ERservice (Oct 22, 2014)

I use http://www.deutronic.com/products/battery-chargers/1600-watt.html
I'm glad


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ERservice said:


> I use http://www.deutronic.com/products/battery-chargers/1600-watt.html
> I'm glad


Sweet! :thumbup:

Big money there.


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## Jon1915 (Oct 3, 2014)

Can you recommend a some good and cheap power supply suitable for the F-series.
Thanks


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

This is what I ended up doing - I've posted the below on our local South African forum:



> As many of you may know, flashing ECUs on cars can take a long time and you basically playing Russian Roulette by relying on your car's battery to maintain a high enough voltage for long enough for the flashing process to complete. If the battery voltage gets too low during flashing, then it's bye bye ECU and you'll have to do a bench flash (if you were lucky enough to find a hex dump of what was on the ECU in the first place) using a programmer that's compatible with the Microcontroller in the ECU.
> 
> The other inevitable thing (which happened to me recently) is that should you disconnect the battery of the car, and some kind soul decides to close the boot for you, there's no way to open the boot without having an external PSU connected to the car. In my case, all I had was a 12V PSU rated for 5Amps. I managed to open the boot by using this PSU, but in the process I bricked my FRM module because the PSU I used didn't have enough current to power the car up properly. That sucked and pretty much pushed me to get something with a lot more oomph.
> 
> ...


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## jackylooo (Nov 26, 2014)

Good job, very impressive !


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## supkp (Jan 24, 2013)

I purchased this unit http://www.centurytool.net/INC_700A_Schumacher_4_20_70A_12V_Battery_Charger_p/shuinc-700a.htm


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

gbyleveldt said:


> This is what I ended up doing - I've posted the below on our local South African forum:


Please do tell where you sourced the parts. I've built a simple PS based on LHV HTK600 PS and upped the voltage to 13.5 (bringing down Amperage to ~45A) but that is a far cry from what you made. Luckily, F30 have very simple power requirement that it held up all through 6 hours of flashing session. That was tempting fate, though.


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi Eli,

Well here's the rest of it if you really feel like tackling this:


> A bunch of guys have asked for a little more details, so here goes:
> 
> Find below the schematic, as you can see there's really nothing to it
> 
> ...


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Thanks, this helps.


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## atulc (Apr 18, 2018)

Hello all - I am looking for a power supply for flashing ECUs and don't see any ready options in the US besides the expensive Schumacher INC-700A and OTC 700A or ordering the Chinese MST-80. I would love to build a custom power supply like gbyleveldt above but the pictures on the postings are no longer visible. 

gbyleveldt - could you please repost all the pictures?


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## gsnake2000 (Nov 14, 2016)

I just got my Schumacher INC100A power supply but strangely it is made in china and it got DSR name on it. Not really sure why.. And I could not find the battery charging mode (only service mode), was hoping I could use it as a charger.. anybody knows if this is the 'real' Schumacher or this is some kind of Chinese knock off..


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## gsnake2000 (Nov 14, 2016)

just don't see a point of having a dedicated battery charger and dedicated power supply. Would be nice to have them both in one device (which is INC700A - the older and discontinued model)



ciacuzzo said:


> So how much is a power supply going to set you back? $300?


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## edgararroyo (Jun 16, 2020)

Sorry to revive old thread, but since I was searching for this particular solution I wanted to share mine....

CbRadiosPronto sells these and in a variety of flavors, like 50amp, 75amp, and even the popular 100amp model.

I bought this model, 100 amp for $199.99








100 AMP CONTINUOUS POWER SUPPLY-CONVERTER-BATTERY Charger 12 volt 13.8 vdc | eBay


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And a 6gauge 12ft jumper cables for $12 which I cut in half and can use other half for a 2nd unit.








20ft 25ft 4 Gauge 2 Gauge Heavy Duty Booster Cable Emergency Car Battery Jumper | eBay


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Making it the cheapest solution, just a little over $200

Hope this helps.


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