# Hungaroring Discussion (***SPOILERS***)



## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

:yikes: Holy cow!


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

What's with all of the Cosworth engine failures this weekend? IMO, there have been just too many for this to be a weird coincidence. But do the individual teams assemble these engines themselves, or are they supplied with crate engines?

And Barrichello's suspension failure was  to watch. I really wish it hadn't happened, but that was a spectacular way to exit a race.


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## LarryN (Dec 24, 2001)

Has anybody seen the live data uplink from the F1 website? It's pretty damn cool.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

LarryN said:


> Has anybody seen the live data uplink from the F1 website? It's pretty damn cool.


 I used that for the first time today. Wish I'd found out about it sooner!


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## LarryN (Dec 24, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> I used that for the first time today. Wish I'd found out about it sooner!


Me too!

Superb race by Alonso. The Constructor's and Driver's are totally up in the air now. Much better this way than with Team Red wrapping things up mid season. :thumbup:


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

LarryN said:


> Has anybody seen the live data uplink from the F1 website? It's pretty damn cool.


You guys are getting it right good! :thumbup:

The teams don't do anything but install the engines. No assembly required.

A good race. Renault certainly benefitted from the dusty grid and Webber and Trulli holding up the faster cars, but that's they way it is in Hungary.

Ralf passed Michael....good for him. No one can say he can't pass. I've said it before myself. That's done. Ralf even deserved a higher placing.

Good result for BMW Williams, leading the CWC.

:clap:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

SteveT said:


> Ralf passed Michael....good for him. No one can say he can't pass. I've said it before myself. That's done. Ralf even deserved a higher placing.
> 
> Good result for BMW Williams, leading the CWC.
> 
> :clap:


Yep. You'd have to say that Ralf was the star of the race. He really charged after that spin. From 19th to 4th at Hungary is outstanding. 8 points ahead in the constructors now with Monza coming up. Looking good for BMW-Williams. :thumbup:

The only problem now is another one of those darn three week gaps. Yawn.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Topaz330xi said:


> Yep. You'd have to say that Ralf was the star of the race. He really charged after that spin. From 19th to 4th at Hungary is outstanding. 8 points ahead in the constructors now with Monza coming up. Looking good for BMW-Williams. :thumbup:
> 
> The only problem now is another one of those darn three week gaps. Yawn.


 Another three weeks?? Dang!

Ralfie was definitely one of the race's best stories. Unbelievable driving. He shouldn't have had to work that hard, though. BMW's launch control was obviously hurting at Hungary. Those two cars easily had the worst start of the race. If Ralf can pass 15 spots in 70 laps, imagine where he might have placed if he had actually kept fourth place around Turn 1. Same for JPM, although he had a more fortunate start.

Still, the end results were very exciting. JPM is one measly point behind MS and BMW is now ahead in the constructor's. I don't mind if BMW doesn't win; I just like the competition. :thumbup:

Again, though, what's up with those engines? Was it something about Hungaroring that did them in? Or maybe someone was asleep at the factory for a few days.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

Great race. I think they said 8 different winners this year. It's shaping up to be a classic season. Just when I was ready to give up on F1. Thank God Renault doesn't have a BMW engine or they might be dominating like Ferrari.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

This was probably the best Hungaroring race I've ever seen!
I can't wait for another Grand Prix, this is a very exciting season.

It was also another great performance by Mark Webber, this guy is going to land a seat in one of the top teams very soon and there is talk about him replacing Montoya at Williams. We have to remember that he is driving in Jaguar, decent engine but a poor chassis so all credit goes to him for setting up the car and his driving skills.
Those Cosworth engine failures are probably because of the problems at the factory, not the track. We're talking about 2 different engines, one 72 degree in Jordan and more powerful 90 degree engine in Jaguar, so it can't be a design problem.

I think that Frank Williams and Patrick Head will never say another word about Ralf and his passing skills after today's race.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

For a change, it really looked like Michael Schumacher was driving a slow car today. Suddenly the Ferrari is slow? WTH happened? 

I guess it's the superior handling of the Renault that carried Alonso. It certainly wasn't the straight line speed.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

WTH is up with that "Hungary is bad for passing"? 

Still - what's up with Ralf? He's sometimes just out of it, but it seems that when he gets a kick in the ass, he shines. Are they going to keep kicking his ass?

Alonso was just gone. Very cool. The Renault just seemd very crisp - good cornering, good speed out of the turns. Since I know a number of F1 fans who have turned into "France sucks"-type ninnies, it was doubly fun. 

The BMW Williams launch control needs some help. And what on earth was wrong with Spoonface's car? He seemed to be fighting with the car all the way.

I love close races! :clap:


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## Jayhox (Jan 16, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> Since I know a number of F1 fans who have turned into "France sucks"-type ninnies, it was doubly fun.


Count me as a ninny -- FRANCE DOES SUCK!!! :neener: :spank:

GO JUAN PABLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thumbup: Indy is going to be a blast this year! Anyone else going?


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

*see avatar*


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## Jayhox (Jan 16, 2002)

Roadstergal:  :rofl: 

Juan Pablo calling a spade a spade:

"Well, you’ve gotta push. You have got to make sure you push. Michael has been pretty aggressive in racing. On the first lap I was going round the outside of him in turn two and he just threw his car at me completely. I was a bit shocked by that but if that’s the way he’s racing, that’s the way he’s racing. But that doesn’t really help him at the moment. He needed to score points today and he took one point."

ZING!!! :spank: (Hint: Michael is on the right)


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Yep. And I liked his description of activating the BMW launch control... like throwing an anchor out... they're going to need to rectify that.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> Yep. And I liked his description of activating the BMW launch control... like throwing an anchor out... they're going to need to rectify that.


 BMW's launch control has looked fine at previous races. I'm thinking that the extra schmutz on the dirty side of the track affected the software somehow, almost like it had an "allergic reaction" to the reduced traction.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

It just great to see more than one or two teams in with a chance. I still can't believe McLaren are still competitive with there old chassis. I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't more wrong with the new Ferrari than just tires. As for the French thing I'm with Roastergal. As it turns out it looks like they were right all along. I thought is was refreshing hearing 2 national anthems not heard for quite awhile.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

But the Renault and Mercedes launch control didn't seem to be impaired...


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

The Roadstergal said:


> But the Renault and Mercedes launch control didn't seem to be impaired...


Of the four cars (Renault and Mercedes) all but Trulli were on the "clean" side of the track. There is quite a lot of talk about how good the Renault traction control is and it may be, but the BMW Williams system was dealing with the dust and schmutz (better than clag) on that side. As Jetfire said, the BMW system has done fine previously. Hungary is renowned for schmutz.

As far as Alonso's performance the track is perfect for the car. They are down on power, but they have a good chassis and aero. If Raikkonen or Montoya or Ralf had gotten ahead of him before he'd gotten that lead he wouldn't have won. It would have been very interesting if they'd all gotten by Webber and Trulli sooner. As Juan said, the FW25 was the fastest car. He had six of the ten fastest laps, Ralf had two and Raikkonen one. Alonso's best was the tenth fastest. To his credit he made it work and won by a good margin, it was the perfect setup fo him.

I think the consensus is that Renault will not be a factor from here on. Monza is the power track of power tracks. Juan will be ready, he loves it. The long straight at Indy should be too much for Renault and Suzuka is high speed as well. The question is how well will the Bridgestones do on the F2003-GA at Suzuka. It should be interesting.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

That's definately JPM. Hack's right. I like your theory too. I never cared much for Ferrari's politicking, but I can't believe even they could be that ruthless. They've treated some of their drivers like Lauda pretty bad in the past, but that would be life threatening.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Haha, you guys crack me up :bustingup

What is your next theory ? Ferrari hiring assassins to eliminate their rivals ?


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Haha, you guys crack me up :bustingup
> 
> What is your next theory ? Ferrari hiring assassins to eliminate their rivals ?


:eeps:

You have to admit, there's something about how ALL the bad luck seems to happen to Reubens with Ferrari, and also how everything just conveniently falls into Spoonface's laps, including that one point he scored at Hungaroring.

But yeah, I was mostly kidding about the whole conspiracy thing. What nutcase would come up with something this far-fetched?


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

The HACK said:


> how everything just conveniently falls into Spoonface's laps


Alonso fell into his laps last weekend!


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Even the Speed Channel commentators were saying that if Reubens had not suffered the mechanical failure, he would've been on pace to finish either ahead of JPM or behind him, depending on how quickly they get out of the pits.

That would earn Ferrari 5 valuable points (if Reubens finished behind Juan), have both Williams and Ferrari TIED for the championship, Juan and Spoonface TIED for the Driver's championship, and both teams deadlocked in a nasty dogfight until the end of the season. :thumbup:


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> What's with all of the Cosworth engine failures this weekend? IMO, there have been just too many for this to be a weird coincidence. But do the individual teams assemble these engines themselves, or are they supplied with crate engines?


My guess was heat. The track was pretty hot, wasn't it?


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I'm with Alex, Hack's theory is a complete nonsense and I know he was kidding.

Michael Schumacher is just one lucky SOB, he was all his career, even at Benetton. It has nothing to do with Ferrari :tsk: , remember that Enzo is dead and nobody would dare to pull the kind of moves that he did.

Schumi has this special aura around him, some people love him, some hate him but most respect him and this helps in many situations like passing or steward rulings.


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

Stupid question but I'll ask anyway...

If the track has so much "clag", then why don't they just use a jet dryer to blow it off? The open wheel racing series here in the states do it all the time where there is debris on the track. I know it wouldn't replace having a truely cured racing surface, but it would be better than having embedded dust. :dunno:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

GimpyMcFarlan said:


> Stupid question but I'll ask anyway...
> 
> If the track has so much "clag", then why don't they just use a jet dryer to blow it off? The open wheel racing series here in the states do it all the time where there is debris on the track. I know it wouldn't replace having a truely cured racing surface, but it would be better than having embedded dust. :dunno:


That's the thing about Formula One, they will race no matter what the conditions are, not like some of the sissy series here  . 
F1 races are rarely stopped and delayed and if the track is too dangerous they will simply follow the safety car till it clears up.

I was watching the CART race in Montreal and I couldn't believe that they brought out the safety car because of a simple spin! We're talking about FIA circuit with all the possible safety features and run off areas, local yellow was all that was necessary. They destroyed the entire race for a few guys, including the leader Tagliani. :tsk:


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> That's the thing about Formula One, they will race no matter what the conditions are, not like some of the sissy series here  .


Agreed... I'm all for racing in all weather conditions, except low visibility of course. That is what I really liek about sportscar racing! :clap: But I really don't think blowing the track clean before the start of each session is unreasonable. Getting the track dirty *during* a race is just a part of racing. Not doing something as simple as cleaning the track surface to ensure an equally competitve and *safe* surface just doesn't make sense to me. :tsk:

Would the FIA pentalize themselve 10 spots if one or more of the drivers had an accident at the start as a direct result of "clag" on the race track?  Doubtful... I'm sure they would blame the team(s) for not setting up the launch control correctly.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

GimpyMcFarlan said:


> Would the FIA pentalize themselve 10 spots if one or more of the drivers had an accident at the start as a direct result of "clag" on the race track?  Doubtful... I'm sure they would blame the team(s) for not setting up the launch control correctly.


And they would be right! Teams knew the track conditions and they knew their starting positions as well so they should've prepared for it. Something went wrong with Williams launch control and I'm sure they are looking very closely at the issue.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Since F1 runs in all conditions, they don't have blow dryers for the track like CART might for drying the ovals after a rain. No doubt they can afford dryers, they just don't have any. However, did you see that picture of the track with the wind blowing a stream of dust across the road surface? That's really the problem at tracks like Hungary and even Spain, wind blows dust on the track almost as fast as it can be blown off. They deal with the rubber clag, it's the mix of rubber and sand/dust that makes it so difficult.

Normally when they used to do the prerace warmup the guys on the dusty side of the track would run down that side to clean off their starting positions. I think I read a quote where Juan had mentioned to Charlie Whiting that the right side was going to be especially bad because under the new rules they wouldn't even be able to do that. He proved to be right.

BMW and Williams have acknowledged that they are going to check the launch control, but I don't really think there was anything wrong with it. With all that horsepower there's only so much can be done. If the wheels are going to speed the launch control will cut the power or put out the anchor.


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