# BMW is becoming more of an American company...



## Griffoun (Jan 19, 2006)

pilotman said:


> I have always heard of ancedotal reports that US built BMWs aren't as reliable...but I have never owned one.


That explains the sudden acceleration on Toyota's vehicles. 

Are VW less reliable from Mexico plants than the ones built elsewhere?


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

frankly I never really bought into the idea of a correleation bertween reliability and point of assembly

HOWEVER, my two good friends who are high level engineers at Nissan will swear up and down that the Japanese engineered and built Infinitis tend to be better screwed together (i.e. less rattles, etc.)

that's not really the point here though...its really more that BMW will probably shift production of the 3 series (one of their highest volume sellers) to the US to avoid currency exchange.

MB has already done so, and Audi will then be in real trouble.

Sucks to be a German autoworker, I guess....they are being slowly done away with, since building cars in Germany for export is too expensive now...


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## innovativeit (Sep 30, 2007)

pilotman said:


> Does it matter to any of you if the 3 series will be built in the US? ...


No, it wouldn't matter to me. I would still trust the assembly quality unless there were statistical evidence to the contrary.


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

My Nissan built in Mexico and so far it got dent left and right everytime I poke my finger.
Better than Hyundai mad in Korea that 1 hit....it's over
v
v


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

Pretty soon, they will drive like an American car. :bawling:
Ever heard of the "gentleman function" in the 7 series?


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

pilotman said:


> Does it matter to any of you if the 3 series will be built in the US?
> 
> I have always heard of ancedotal reports that US built BMWs aren't as reliable...but I have never owned one.
> 
> ...


This has come up ever since BMW started building cars in South Africa, or Leipzig, or Mexico. The fact is that the management of the plant is responsible for the quality. Workers will respond to the expectations and the directions of management. A well-managed plant will produce a well-built car. Bad management results in bad cars.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> Pretty soon, they will drive like an American car. :bawling:
> Ever heard of the "gentleman function" in the 7 series?


Actually, no. Can you enlighten us?


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

I am so curious....about Gentleman Function.

The "Gentleman Function" is an option in the iDrive directory under front seats which allows the driver to take control of the passenger side front seat. Any adjustment you can make on the driver's seat can be done on the passenger seat but with the driver doing the... er, driving. The feature may at first seem overly gimmicky, and the naming convention chauvinistic, but after a call to BMW, the feature makes perfect sense. Well, at least in a German kind of way.

*bummer..sounds like "control freak function" for me.*


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## [email protected] (Nov 21, 2008)

the whole face of the auto industry is changing. There are some interesting times ahead.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

GiaGiaJa said:


> I am so curious....about Gentleman Function.
> 
> The "Gentleman Function" is an option in the iDrive directory under front seats which allows the driver to take control of the passenger side front seat. Any adjustment you can make on the driver's seat can be done on the passenger seat but with the driver doing the... er, driving. The feature may at first seem overly gimmicky, and the naming convention chauvinistic, but after a call to BMW, the feature makes perfect sense. Well, at least in a German kind of way.
> 
> *bummer..sounds like "control freak function" for me.*


Sounds much more German than American. Makes post #6 even more puzzling. My 1999 528 has many features that didn't show up on American cars until several years later, if at all.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

When I first started selling cars (Nissans) in 1986 we had Japanese and American-built Sentras (Smyrna, GA.). No doubt about it, the American ones were inferior. It was most obvious, even visibly so as the rubber exterior bits like windshield seals, black bumper covers, etc. all began oxidizing almost immediately on the US-built, and not at all on Japanese. There were several other noticeable differences. My next stop, Honda, same thing. The Japanese Accords made of better materials, also better fit and finish. We had plenty of customers refuse delivery based on assembly point. The only similar BMW comparisons that could be drawn were with the SA built versus German E46 sedans. They were very close, I couldn't tell a difference, yet again, we had buyers refuse SA-built vehicles.

For me the point to be gleaned is that the jobber/supplier issue is more salient than the assembler issue.


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## BMW Power (Jul 25, 2007)

The only problem I have with US built is the loss of ability to do European Delivery.


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## hotrod2448 (Jun 2, 2007)

Jon S. said:


> When I first started selling cars (Nissans) in 1986 we had Japanese and American-built Sentras (Smyrna, GA.). No doubt about it, the American ones were inferior. It was most obvious, even visibly so as the rubber exterior bits like windshield seals, black bumper covers, etc. all began oxidizing almost immediately on the US-built, and not at all on Japanese. There were several other noticeable differences. My next stop, Honda, same thing. The Japanese Accords made of better materials, also better fit and finish. We had plenty of customers refuse delivery based on assembly point. The only similar BMW comparisons that could be drawn were with the SA built versus German E46 sedans. They were very close, I couldn't tell a difference, yet again, we had buyers refuse SA-built vehicles.
> 
> For me the point to be gleaned is that the jobber/supplier issue is more salient than the assembler issue.


Fair enough but, again you could argue that manufacturer is responsible for the QC of the parts from a supplier and if they approve inferior parts with different materials or qualities from a supplier in a foreign country it is their fault for allowing the supplier to be different. There is no inherent reason that trim work can't be made to the same quality or of the same material in the US or South Africa as it is in Germany. I've owned 3 German built BMWs (E90, E92, E65) and one American built (E70) and I can't tell any discernible difference in how they are assembled.

Kind of a funny BMW supplier story, My father-in-law works for Exide who is now producing batteries for BMW. When they first started the evaluations to be an approved supplier they were furnished prints to build the parts to. At this point I believe there was an Italian company manufacturing the batteries. When the BMW engineers showed up to do the evaluations they found something that did not fit their fixtures like the production battery did. Apparently they kind of acted like they weren't surprised that us dumb Americans can't even follow prints. It turns out the Exide part was built accurately and to the print but, the go/no go gauge they built was fitted off a production Italian battery that was actually out of BMW spec for one reason or another.:rofl:


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## wisbimmer20 (Nov 25, 2009)

I would only buy a BMW made in Germany. It just doesn't seem right to have them built elsewhere


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## S93D (Apr 24, 2008)

BMW 3 series cars are made in India and Egypt, among other countries. Any readers from there? Some of those countries have extremely high taxes on cars and reductions for locally built cars.

Quite a few South African 3 series cars come to the US.

I think any quality differences might be from using different suppliers for the new assembly location.


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## MrZip (Oct 8, 2006)

Actually the previously manufactured Z-4 is one of BMW's most trouble free models. The fit and trim meets any BMW standard. The only problem is w/ the N52 (German sourced) engine (valve lifters etc) The American assembly worker can only use the materials given - it's not that the workers are bad - it's the materials. GM finally figured this out and now has some of the best cars in the World.


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## rafale (Oct 13, 2005)

I guess BMW is going the Toyota way. The bean counter's politics is one reason why I stirred away from Mercedes in a hurry. The US manufactured Mercedes were notoriously unreliable worldwide. By the way, the SA made E46 do have the reputation of being less reliable and have fit/finish issues. I have owned two German made E46 and never had as many problems as newer car a friend of mine had from South Africa. Between transmission failures, rattling of the door sills and what not... I don't know. I have not seen the statistics but BMWs built in any other place than Germany takes away a lot of their charm and what they represent. They would certainly lose a point of differentiation but BMW are looking to steal Lexus and buyers, it is the way to go. Losing a few purist or enthusiast on the way probably doesn't matter...


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## SandNs new 528 (May 7, 2008)

Interesting Article
http://www.southafrica.info/doing_business/economy/success/rosslyn.htm


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## Wayne's World (Dec 6, 2010)

I have a Spartansburg, SC built '06 X5. Fit and finish are top-notch. No rattles, creaks or anything of the sort. I bought it with 85K miles and it now has 122K. Other than typical wear and tear items, no probs.


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## bmwarchitect (Dec 3, 2010)

I have Spartansburg, SC built '03 X5, with 51k. No complaints. My non-BMW mechanic tells me X5's are least problematic of all BMW's he services (as well as other German makes, and Jaguar). Owning my own business, I know that a committment to quality starts at the top and must be part of the culture and the practice. From my perspective it seems that is the case with the American built X5, although a German built vechile has its appeal due to the history of Germany made cars and other products. German made watches have a distinct look, feel and performance, not unlike a BMW or Mercedes. As the world becomes more internationally integrated, I hope these individual cultural qualities are not lost.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

pilotman said:


> Does it matter to any of you if the 3 series will be built in the US?
> 
> I have always heard of ancedotal reports that US built BMWs aren't as reliable...but I have never owned one.
> 
> ...


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Cars are mass produced, mostly by robots, in very controlled environments.

Seventy five percent of the car is made up of parts from 3rd party suppliers.

It makes no difference where the car is assembled - south African produced e46's were not less well built or less reliable than German built models.

It's 2011, there's no such thing as a true German, or American or British car any longer (unless you go boutique, and even then....).


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Jon S. said:


> For me the point to be gleaned is that the jobber/supplier issue is more salient than the assembler issue.


+1

The quality of the parts has a lot to do with the quality and durability of the finished product.

VW Rabbits assembled at the Westmoreland plant were terrible but not because of where they were built. VW chose to build the car with cheap American parts. Cheap interiors, cheap brakes, cheap everything.


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## BayAreaBimmer (Dec 30, 2010)

:tsk:


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## FCBayernFTW (Oct 10, 2005)

I think that knowing that your Bimmer is built in Germany, well... is the car BEING german part of what sells? Look at the ad that BMW relesed about the new X3, US designed, built, and *German Engineering*...

My wife is skiddish about my choice of next vehicle simply because it is not built in Germany...


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> +1
> 
> The quality of the parts has a lot to do with the quality and durability of the finished product.
> 
> VW Rabbits assembled at the Westmoreland plant were terrible but not because of where they were built. VW chose to build the car with cheap American parts. Cheap interiors, cheap brakes, cheap everything.


I had a 1980 Rabbit built there - the car was assembled just fine, but the quality of parts was inferior to the cars that came from Germany - especially the interior.

It was the beginning of a long slide for VW.


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## Route 66 (Oct 5, 2009)

I owned one those Rabbits from the Westmoreland Plant and it did not seem to ever have any issues but, I know other people who owned them had problems.


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## FalconFlyer (May 29, 2011)

Well.. I can say this, our X5 is defiantly built "different" than my 750Li even though they are at the same price point. In my opinion, I think it comes down to where the components are built that bring the car together. The X5 in my opinion has a cheaper more hollow feel to it... this is especially true with regards to the doors....


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