# Are Car Salesmen Honest?



## SBIRS (Nov 4, 2004)

Did a search, found nuthing. Sorry if a repost.

It's been confirmed. Car salesmen rank dead last in terms of ethics and honesty, according to Gallup poll. Sorry JON, SARAFIL, ADRIAN, but I'm sure you guys are exceptional. 

"Nurses get top marks when it comes to honesty and ethics, and car salesmen are the least trusted people, according to Gallup's annual U.S. survey of professions released on Tuesday."

" Car salesmen brought up the rear with only 9 percent rating their honesty and ethics as high. That was one point lower than for people in advertising."

Source

Gallup Poll


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

How do you define honest? 

Most are just trying to make as much money as possible on a new car deal, if you let them take advatange of that they will. Read all contracts closely, and if you don't like the way things are going walk away before signing. Where it gets tricky is in the financing and interest rates.

I have never felt ripped off on a new car deal sure you always want the ultimate deal. Do research before buying and if it’s not a fair price leave.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> How do you define honest?
> 
> Most are just trying to make as much money as possible on a new car deal, if you let them take advatange of that they will. Read all contracts closely, and if you don't like the way things are going walk away before signing. Where it gets tricky is in the financing and interest rates.
> 
> I have never felt ripped off on a new car deal sure you always want the ultimate deal. Do research before buying and if it's not a fair price leave.


I think that is oversimplyfing things a bit.

Yes they are paid to maximize the $ gross on every sale. It's the way they go about it that is the issue. I have been told bold faced lies by car sales people when they didnt know the answer to a question. 
On one occasion in dealing with a Honda sales person who finally agreed to the price I was offering said they were ready to do the deal. Said they would even drop the car at my office and do all the paper work right there so I didnt have to leave work.

When I went to look at the car they had changed out the stereo to the basic low end unit. I told him to take his car and stick it.


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## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> How do you define honest?


  Does everyone have their own definition of honest? :yikes: That's scary!!


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

SBIRS said:


> Did a search, found nuthing. Sorry if a repost.
> 
> It's been confirmed. Car salesmen rank dead last in terms of ethics and honesty, according to Gallup poll. Sorry JON, SARAFIL, ADRIAN, but I'm sure you guys are exceptional.
> 
> ...


Where do psychotherapists rank??
:angel:


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## SBIRS (Nov 4, 2004)

jon said:


> Where do psychotherapists rank??
> :angel:


"Not all professions are asked every year..."
perhaps next year.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

well that's just a perception poll, it has nothing to do with the actual reality, honest :angel:


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Almost every bussiness is designed to make as much profit as possible. 

What compaines charge for a product it is based on what the market is willing to pay. My company charges more for a some cheaper to manufacture products because the consumer is willing to pay more for the most advanced product. Most retailers have low ball pricing to get a certian consumer in the door, but the idea is to upgrade the consumer to the higher end products because the profit margin is much higher.

Is this dishonest?


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## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> Almost every bussiness is designed to make as much profit as possible.
> 
> What compaines charge for a product it is based on what the market is willing to pay. My company charges more for a some cheaper to manufacture products because the consumer is willing to pay more for the most advanced product. Most retailers have low ball pricing to get a certian consumer in the door, but the idea is to upgrade the consumer to the higher end products because the profit margin is much higher.
> 
> Is this dishonest?


If you have to lie or mislead to make the sale, then yes. If not, then no.


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## SBIRS (Nov 4, 2004)

I bought a car recently and they keep telling me "That price is way too low, there is no way we can do that."
I replied: Okay, thanks I will think about it first. I had to walk away 4 times before we finally came to an agreed upon price.
The dealers are trying to test your limit, they lower the price little by little.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

SBIRS said:


> I bought a car recently and they keep telling me "That price is way too low, there is no way we can do that."
> I replied: Okay, thanks I will think about it first. I had to walk away 4 times before we finally came to an agreed upon price.
> The dealers are trying to test your limit, they lower the price little by little.


Bingo...When we bought my wife's truck a year ago I made an offer and the sales manager turned me down and said he was losing money at that price.

I told him that I understood and respected his position and thanked him for his time. Three follow up phone calls later asking me to raise my price and he said he would do the deal at my price. Which had about $1300 - $1500 of profit in it.

Either he didnt take my offer seriously or he was trying to wait me out.
Dishonest? no. Aggravating? yes.

My Honda example was blatant dishonesty.

My guess is that the lower you go on the brand/price food chain the worse the dishonesty gets.


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

honestly, I'm honest


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

SBIRS said:


> Did a search, found nuthing. Sorry if a repost.
> 
> It's been confirmed. Car salesmen rank dead last in terms of ethics and honesty, according to Gallup poll. Sorry JON, SARAFIL, ADRIAN, but I'm sure you guys are exceptional.
> 
> ...


We discussed this topic in our sales meeting this morning.

The overall consensus in the room was "tell 'em you used to be a nurse".


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## Keith (Feb 27, 2002)

jon said:


> Where do psychotherapists rank??
> :angel:


Let me talk to my therapist, I'll get back to ya ole budddddy!  :rofl:


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> We discussed this topic in our sales meeting this morning.
> 
> The overall consensus in the room was "tell 'em you used to be a nurse".


:lmao: the key point though is "used to be"


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## KP (Apr 16, 2002)

Usually not about what they drive


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## tejenkins (Feb 4, 2003)

SARAFIL said:


> We discussed this topic in our sales meeting this morning.
> 
> The overall consensus in the room was "tell 'em you used to be a nurse".


Yet another data point supporting the poll.


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

so 9% of those polled are apparently car salespeople...


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

SARAFIL said:


> We discussed this topic in our sales meeting this morning.
> 
> The overall consensus in the room was "tell 'em you used to be a nurse".


Wouldn't that support the 'dishonesty' theory ...


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

I can agree with that poll. But think about it. The car business is huge!! I'd be willing to bet there's more car salespeople out there than lawyers and nurses and their education backgrounds (or lack thereof :eeps: ) are significantly different than most professions. Throw in the competitive market aspect among brands and dealers and how can you blame many car salespeople for twisting the truth. Equally, many salespeople encounter some customers that are not very honest either :yikes: , NO, did I say some customers can be liars? Oh, the horror! Some customers can be dishonest about their trade-in or even about the deal they were offered down the street. So what do some car salespeople resort to doing? Unfortunately, some have to be dishonest either about the trade or sale price for _for fear of losing the client to another dealer and salesperson._

Obviously, I'm gonna have to try to defend the honest salespeople out there making an honest living. I'm certainly one to strongly believe that most people buy from sales people they like, trust and respect. When those factors are in play, usually a fair agreement on terms can be reached. If a client even sniffs a lie or dishonesty, the deal's gonna be difficult to make. Just my 2 pennies.


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> Looks like I over-read your reply above.... So, I apologize for getting upset. I took the "this part" in your above post to mean that the act of maximizing profit, and not taking advantage of customers, was the bad part. :doh:


Apology not necessary. We were simply discussing opinions and we didn't get personal.


SARAFIL said:


> There are lots of benefits to having high customer satisfaction. In most high-end places, high CSI is essential. We could have a guy that sells 20+ cars per month, but if he had consistently poor CSI scores, we'd fire him. So, it's tough to say that there is no incentive to having happy customers. Low CSI is unacceptable, and as one of the highest in the country, we would not tolerate someone that would drive our store average down.
> 
> Now, we've got to establish a link between high customer satisfaction, and acting in a honest and respectful manner towards clients. I find it hard to believe that someone can get their customers to give them the best CSI scores if they feel that they are being lied to or taken advantage of. Do you agree?


Sorry, but no.
First, CSI does not reflect how honest a salesperson is (that's what we are discussing here). There is not a single question in there that calls out honesty.
Second, let's say for argument's sake that there is a correlation between customer satisfaction and honesty of salesperson. In that case, CSI only measures the subset of customers that did buy the car. The vast majority of unsatisfied customers walk away and thus never get reflected in the CSI. Given that I bought the car, by definition I was satisfied with everything, up until the time I sign the check. From that perspective, any CSI score that is not a perfect ace is a major screwup.
Third, a salesman getting fired on the basis of low CSI simply says that the dealership is worried about maintaining a high average (you didn't tell us what kind of perks the dealership gets from being in honor's roll). So a high CSI is simply a condition of employment. I was asking specifically about programs to encourage attaining a high CSI (other than keeping your job). Is there a bonus, for example?
Fourth, CSI and other such measurements are relatively recent introductions and only at few brands. The dishonest salesperson rep is a historic truism that can be easily verified.
Bottom line: unless you want to argue that the Gallup poll was unscientific or somehow invalid, it reflects current perception the population has on car salesman. Nothing you or I say can change that. Only actions can, and it will take a long time.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

JetBlack330i said:


> Is there a bonus, for example?


At our store, CSI below the required number = you don't get your bonus. So, yes, there is alot of money on the line for everyone from the salesperson up the sales manager and GM to meet the numbers.

I agree that CSI is not a perfect measure of honesty/integrity of a salesperson, but look at this another way. You usually get your CSI call a week or two after taking delivery. Assuming you had a dishonest salesperson that tried to screw you after you took delivery, that would be reflected by a bad survey. Also, that client might not have been treated in such a manner until after he took delivery. So, it's not a direct link, but I'd suggest that CSI does have some correlation with honesty/integrity of the salesperson.


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## Niftster (Dec 5, 2004)

cwsqbm said:


> I would say the majority of sales persons are honest, hardworking people just trying to get buy in a cut throat business. Sometimes they try a little pressure to get the sale done because they know if you leave, odds are against them. .


Good point. I would go further and say the environment which cars are in sold just makes it easier to appear dishonest. I also believe there are a large majority of people who tolerate the borderline behaivor so it continues.

When they start this "thats as low as I can go" or "I've got more in the car than that" is what I consider dishonest. Another line that turns me off instantly is "I can do this today if....". Then there is the "if I can blah blah blah today, do we have a deal?" That's all BS. If you can "do this today.." you damn sure can do it tomorrow.

I know several dealerships whose salesmen pull this nonsense, along with the 4 square stuff. They do it real well. In turn, three out of the last 4 cars I purchased, I bought from places well over 100 miles from where I live.

Five or so years ago I was shopping for a truck. A dealership in Quincy Florida which is near my home town had one. I made an offer, but the sales guy wanted me to write a check for any amount to show the finance manager I was serious. I wanted to ask them if they were serious. I declined, left, and on the way back home called a dealership in central Fl. The next day I wrote them a check for a little more than $23,000 for the same truck. That deal was put together over a cell phone on I-10 in about 5 minutes. The Quincy sales guy called back a few days after with a counter offer and was shocked when I told him what I did.

I did not do this to slam the sales guy, but out of spite and principle against the place he works at. Yes it would have been easier not to drive so far, but they will never see me again. Its doubtful anyone I've talked to either, because I tell everyone the story. EVERYONE who even mentions they are thinking about an SUV or truck I make sure to let them know whats going on over there. But there is some lucky salesmen in central Fl that has three easy sales in 2 SUVs and a pickup to people I steered his way.


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## X550-ED (Aug 27, 2005)

SARAFIL said:


> We discussed this topic in our sales meeting this morning.
> 
> The overall consensus in the room was "tell 'em you used to be a nurse".


ROFL LMAO

:rofl: :lmao:


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