# When do you need to let a BMW go?



## AutigerMark (Mar 18, 2018)

-- Quick version of question 

What mileage/repair cost/age does it make more sense to give up an older (payment-free) BWM and get a low mileage replacement?

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-- Detailed Version of question

2007 328i owner - 176,000 miles and average KBB private party sale value of *$4,100 *for my area.

I had a recent inspection from a BMW-specific 3rd party mechanic that I have known for years and trust. I was presented with a total list of needed repairs some critical, others not. It came in at *$4,900*. I have already fixed the 4 critical items:

-- rear brakes/rotors
-- valve cover (leaked oil on engine causing burned smell as driving)
-- original water pump (throwing intermittent fault codes, getting ready to fail)
-- Belt/tensioner (at mileage needed to be replaced)
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$2700

The rest of the list - shocks, mounts, front control arms, bushings I passed on for now. I've not noticed a drivability/ride quality issue but the mechanic said he noticed issues within minutes of the test drive and hitting a few bumps.

I've driven 2 cars in my adult life at 35 years old - a Honda Accord (took it to 225K miles), and now this BMW. I had always planned on taking this one to 200K miles but that repair cost has me re-thinking it.

List of positives for the car:
-- Paid for
-- Drives great (to me)
-- Is in fantastic cosmetic shape. I had it repainted in 2015, and I repainted the wheels myself last year. It still looks almost new.
-- Has never once left me by the side of the road or failed to start.

That being said I cannot ignore a repair bill that exceeds the value of the car. Can I expect another list like that down the road sooner rather than later? Is it time for me to let this car go?


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

I regard my cars as investments in their intrinsic value, their value to me. We hope this X5 is our last auto purchase.


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## ppointer (Sep 29, 2010)

German cars definitely cost more to maintain than Japanese cars, especially Hondas and Toyotas. However, the driving dynamics I think are better. Anyway, you have a non-turbo inline 6 BMW motor with which you should be able to reach 300k miles. For my older, non-turbo BMWs I simply budget about $100 per month to maintenance, so I don't really let it bother me when something expensive comes along. I would keep that car. $2700 and the suspension refresh are way cheaper than buying new or even one-year-old-still-under-warranty. For me the car I own is known, versus another used car that someone sold for a reason.

The last BMW I sold got rusty. I just didn't want to deal with that. My brother didn't care about the rust and wanted his 16-year-old daughter to learn to drive stick. So he bought it with 260k miles on it, and it's still going strong two years later. One minor mishap requiring a new taillight he found on eBay. Niece loves it.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

I track my maintenance, depreciation, capital costs (interest on loan and equity), and property taxes, MDI&P. Bubba County doesn't have a property taxes on vehicles. 

One of the things I need from a car is reliability, enough reliability to feel safe taking a schedule-critical road trip in it. That confidence starts going away at around 75k miles. It's pretty much all gone by 100k miles. The huge savings in MDI&P between 75k and 100k miles makes me tolerant of the increased risk of having an interruption in a road trip.

Here's my MDI&P data for my E46 M3. From 78k to 103k miles, I was driving an awesome car for what it'd cost to lease a Kia. But, things went all to **** between 103k and 112k miles. I had $6.8k in maintenance cost and $3.4k in depreciation. But, it was still cheaper than the first year's MDI&P on my next BMW, about $17k. So, if it wasn't for the diminished reliability, insufficient for schedule-critical road trips, I still would have been financially better off keeping it.

I was taking a schedule-critical road trip in my newer, more reliable Chevy Cobalt (the anti-BMW), when I had a rest stop revelation: Spending 1500 miles in a Chevy Cobalt sucks. I ordered a new BMW when I got home.

My plan now with our BMW's is to call the next owner (I have waiting lists for our BMW's when we sell them) the morning after the sixth digit in the odometer goes from blank to a "1" (100k miles).

Back in the 1980's I briefly worked for a Fortune 500 company. They did a study to determine the optimal time to replace field sales rep's cars. They included lost productivity incurred when they were dealing with car repairs instead of selling stuff. They determined it was 80k miles.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

ppointer said:


> German cars definitely cost more to maintain than Japanese cars, especially Hondas and Toyotas. However, the driving dynamics I think are better. Anyway, you have a non-turbo inline 6 BMW motor with which you should be able to reach 300k miles. For my older, non-turbo BMWs I simply budget about $100 per month to maintenance, so I don't really let it bother me when something expensive comes along. I would keep that car. $2700 and the suspension refresh are way cheaper than buying new or even one-year-old-still-under-warranty. For me the car I own is known, versus another used car that someone sold for a reason.


What ppointer said. I would KEEP that car and maintain it and get the most amount of use out of it. It won't owe you a dime when you finally decide to part with it. "Cheaper to keep her" applies.

My 2012 X5 35d at only 259k miles is 4 oil changes away from 300k miles. I am planning to keep it well past 300k miles. The car has been maintained and reliability has been very good. My long highway commute and spirited driving style might have something to do with it. I have driven less over the past year from working remotely due to Covid but I still put on the miles.

Reliability is important to me with my 1k miles per week of driving. With more than 200k miles on the X5 35d, I have no problem with doing a road trip halfway across the country in it. BTDT already when on vacation. The X5 35d would not be the first car I've taken past 300k miles. The first was a 2002 VW Golf TDI (diesel) which I sold in 2010 at 361k miles to a coworker whose son needed a car for college. I could have kept the Golf TDI longer but I finally had the itch for something new. The 02 Golf TDI is still on the road today at close to 500k miles.

I don't view 100k miles to be high miles on a car given that 100k miles represents about 2 years of driving for me. The 80-100k mile rule for replacing cars won't work for me. I do a lot of highway driving and highway miles are easy miles on a car and the best kind of miles to put on any car. At 100k miles my cars are literally just barely broken in as the saying goes.


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## XChallengeRdr (Jul 15, 2020)

A few years ago I paid $3k to put a rebuild motor in a 97 Explorer with 225k on it. The car was worth about $2500 then and it is worth about the same now. For me the financial side of the question is how much am I going to spend to replace it as a tow vehicle, not what it is worth. $3k is 12 months of $250 payments and any car that comes that cheap isn't going to be much nicer than a 97 Explorer. We routinely drive cars over 200k miles in my family. Some have reached over 325k.

With that said, there are two other factors I consider. What kind of safety upgrades a newer car may bring and how reliable is it after repairs, which has been adequately discussed above. 

I have an antique car that is worth about twice as much now as it was when I bought it, but those are very few in the auto market. Most cars will only lose value, so the question is really about buying miles and style, not investing in something with a return. If the repairs you describe will bring the car up to your needs for another few years and you identify with the car, keep it. It doesn't matter if you can sell it and get your money back. If you're going to put 24k miles on it in the next year and sell it because it has reached a 200k cut off, then get out now. 

m


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## KWN-E39 (Feb 19, 2021)

My suggestion is if you're going to pay a mechanic to fix and maintain your car, get rid of it. What you paid $2700 to get fixed could of been done at home for less than $250


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

KWN-E39 said:


> My suggestion is if you're going to pay a mechanic to fix and maintain your car, get rid of it. What you paid $2700 to get fixed could of been done at home for less than $250


Or, like a lawyer acting as his own attorney, a shadetree mechanic fixing his own BMW has a fool for a client.


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## KWN-E39 (Feb 19, 2021)

Doug Huffman said:


> Or, like a lawyer acting as his own attorney, a shadetree mechanic fixing his own BMW has a fool for a client.


I for one don't mind getting grease on my hands. Not sure why you have to try and put someone down but if it strokes your ego than go right ahead. Like water on a frog, rolls right off my back.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

I always used to say, repair them until the engine or transmission goes.


But when the transmussion on our MDX went at 204, 000 I bought an Acura reman for $2100 and dropped it in myself..son has it at 350k now.


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## AutigerMark (Mar 18, 2018)

Doug Huffman said:


> Or, like a lawyer acting as his own attorney, a shadetree mechanic fixing his own BMW has a fool for a client.





KWN-E39 said:


> My suggestion is if you're going to pay a mechanic to fix and maintain your car, get rid of it. What you paid $2700 to get fixed could of been done at home for less than $250


Respectfully - I don’t understand how you can say this. The rear brake kit by itself (OEM - pads/rotors/wear sensors) was $480 + tax not including labor.


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## AutigerMark (Mar 18, 2018)

These are excellent responses, points and counterpoints guys I really appreciate it.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

AutigerMark said:


> Respectfully - I don’t understand how you can say this. The rear brake kit by itself (OEM - pads/rotors/wear sensors) was $480 + tax not including labor.


I dont buy OE rotors.

But brakes are one hour max per axle....

Anyway, hard to compare my view as a DIY everything, so hard to translate that to having to deal with shops.


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## KWN-E39 (Feb 19, 2021)

AutigerMark said:


> Respectfully - I don’t understand how you can say this. The rear brake kit by itself (OEM - pads/rotors/wear sensors) was $480 + tax not including labor.


I never buy OEM when I can pay far less for just as good or better than OEM. I just bought a complete brake kit front/rear, rotors, pads and sensors for less than $200. That's front and rear.

I stand by my statement that if you're going to pay a shop to do your work it just wouldn't be worth it, IMO. Older BMW's require lots of maintenance, especially the cooling system. 

In the end just understand what you're in for and decide if it's worth it to you. 

BTW. Nice looking car.


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## AutigerMark (Mar 18, 2018)

KWN-E39 said:


> I never buy OEM when I can pay far less for just as good or better than OEM. I just bought a complete brake kit front/rear, rotors, pads and sensors for less than $200. That's front and rear.
> 
> I stand by my statement that if you're going to pay a shop to do your work it just wouldn't be worth it, IMO. Older BMW's require lots of maintenance, especially the cooling system.
> 
> ...


Thanks and point taken.

I've done simple stuff like oil, air filters, interior trim components, coolant flushes, ignition coils/spark plugs, and window regulators but have never done brakes or taken a deep dive into the engine ect. I've got a small garage and a limited set of tools.


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## billr99 (Apr 16, 2019)

KWN-E39 said:


> I for one don't mind getting grease on my hands. Not sure why you have to try and put someone down but if it strokes your ego than go right ahead. Like water on a frog, rolls right off my back.


If you have ISTA+ and know a bit how to use it, it makes working on BMWs way easier for the DIYer. My '08 750i has 200K kms and it isn't the worst car I've ever worked on. In comparison to my Volvos (I use their VIDA software), the 750 is actually easier to work on and with careful selection of parts sources not that much more expensive. I just did an IVM and MAF replacement and it cost me around $250 CDN to do it.


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## XChallengeRdr (Jul 15, 2020)

DIY is fine, especially if you enjoy the work. I changed my first motor over 40 years ago and it took me a month. I've done them since in a weekend. Just be prepared to have the space, buy or rent the tools and have another way to get around if your car is not ready when you need it. (I have a lot of tools I'll never use again.) But a good mechanic is worth every penny of his pay and about 50% of them are really good. A shop with a five star rating on Yelp means they good at the front desk, not that the customer knows if they actually replaced the filter during an oil change. The values may change but the equation remains the same: How many miles can you get out of this investment?


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## rdollie (Aug 6, 2003)

To answer the original question - if you're talking about a 'M' the answer is* just before the warranty expires*! I bought an e90 M3 CPO in 2011 with full intention of getting rid of it before the warranty expired. After deciding I didn't like the sound and feel of the newer M3, I found a new '17 CTS-V and intended to sell the M3 but my wife started driving it in lieu of her Volvo and wouldn't give it up. I had just over $10k of repairs in the first 6 months out of warranty at a great independent garage! Subsequent issues have mostly been normal wear and tear except for a new CIC which is waiting at home for me to install some day. As soon as I get that installed, front bumper repainted, and curb rash off the wheels I'm dumping the M3 (the Mrs moved on to a 5.0 G05 so the M3 is collecting dust.)


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

AutigerMark said:


> Thanks and point taken.
> 
> I've done simple stuff like oil, air filters, interior trim components, coolant flushes, ignition coils/spark plugs, and window regulators but have never done brakes or taken a deep dive into the engine ect. I've got a small garage and a limited set of tools.


Brakes are easy. And there are prolly a ton of youtube videos. You should give it a shot, once you do one - well, as they say.....


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## 896558 (Aug 25, 2020)

My 2009 335 jjust hit 90k miles and recently spent $ 5k in repairs for some of the things you mentioned.. shocks ( the ride was very compromised and needed them), struts, rear brakes and a few other things and held off on a few other things like front brakes and oil pan and gasket or something expensive ( can't remember exactly what it is but have a slow oil leak). My car is 12 years old and I love it and was ok with the repair bill as far as car being worth it but I am nervous about the next repair bill and dont want to be without a car if something happens ( expensive repair), so I decided to lease a new BMW so I will have two, which will be less use on my E90 and at the same time I get to enjoy a nice new BMW which I have not had in 12 years, so will be nice to have a new car and have my old one.. and if something happens that is really expensive and I decide not to do the repair, I already have another car..


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