# Please help me justify the 325Xi over the Audi A4 1.8T



## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

DougDogs said:


> *Phil, TD's statements about the drivetrain are right on. The reference to "My cousin vinny" was an excellent refernce. (I would have included the scene when Joe Pesci fall in the mud ) I don't agree with the HP or the sport suspension. I think the sport suspension in the NEW A4 is too hard, regular A4 suspension is too soft. (like the three bears) BMW's is just about right. I will see when I add the coilovers, if it is then correct.
> 
> By the way, I did have my 4 wheel alignment checked before the Xmas storm, (it was out of alignment) and my car is not as "twitchy" in the snow. I still think quattro is better, but, I'm still happy with my choice over the new A4. *


I was in no way questioning the technical assessment, just their statement that the BMW xi's should not be picked (considered).


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

*Clarification on LSDs and open diffs*

In the interest of clarification, I just wanted to point out that the current quattro system (Quattro 4), uses open diffs on the front and rear axle and uses the brakes (just like BMW) to transfer the power side to side. The difference is in the center differentail-- the quattro uses a torsen (a type of LSD), and is capable of transferring up to 75% of the power to the front or rear axle. In normal driving, its 50/50. BMW uses an open diff in the center w/ a fixed 30/70 power split F/R.

Older versions of the quattro system had various forms of manually locking or LSDs on the front and rear axles.

Anyway, I do think having a torsen center LSD is generally better than having an open diff a la BMW (and Mercedes ML I think). But, I think the differences really only matter if you drive the car very aggressively and actually take advantage of the performance enhancing aspects of the torsen diff. For most people, AWD just provides straight-line traction enhancement so that you can maintain more traction on a slippery surface.

I live in the northeast, and have dealt with all types of bad weather. With the right tires, i've never felt out of control in a RWD car-- and I like that a 2wd car gives you more warning about the road conditions. Just because you can accelerate faster on slippery surfaces doesn't mean its a good idea.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

thanks robg!

i have been confused about quattro since there seem to be two sorts of quattro available plus i cannot keep track of the LSDs (if any) on the front or rear drive axles.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

postscript:

i thought for sure the audi quattro equipped vehicles had LSDs on at least the rear axle (actually, i thoguht both) because the a4 is so heavy.

for a car in its class to weigh in at 3700 pounds? that's crazy. (in 3.0 guise).

cannot wait to see the S4 weight. even if it has 340hp, that is a lot to trundle around.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

pdz said:


> *postscript:
> 
> i thought for sure the audi quattro equipped vehicles had LSDs on at least the rear axle (actually, i thoguht both) because the a4 is so heavy.
> 
> ...


No. Older versions did though. As far as the different forms of quattro-- the only other system currently available w/ the "quattro" moniker is the Haldex type system in the TT. I think Audi calls this system quattro 5. The Haldex is basically a computer controlled center diff that can trasfer up to 90% (actually it might be closer to 100% but I can't remember), to either axle. The TT also uses "EDLs" (i.e. the brakes), in place of real diffs on each axle.

I think the current quattro 4 is an effective system, but I also think that the "quattro" brand name adds a layer of mystique to it. I think a lot of people think that its more advanced and "magic" than it really is. Atleast in the A4, its torsen center w/ open diffs on each axle. Effective, but not really that technically advanced. The Haldex in the TT represents the more modern approach to AWD. Personally, I prefer the good old torsen.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Hmm... If Audi no longer has mechanical LSDs on the axles, that does sort of take the incentive out.

*sigh*


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *Hmm... If Audi no longer has mechanical LSDs on the axles, that does sort of take the incentive out.
> 
> *sigh* *


Ah, but not for the S4 Avant, which is the one I'd want anyway.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *Ah, but not for the S4 Avant, which is the one I'd want anyway. *


True.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

(raises hand from the "cheap-econobox" seats)

i have a mechanical LSD.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

DougDogs said:


> *When my wife and I test drove the new body style a4 sport suspension, and trust me we put over 15 miles on the test drive, I actually stopped and got out to check if the car still had some kind of shipping stops on the suspension!!!
> 
> Take one out for a ride, you owned an earlier A4, you'll feel the difference. *


You're also coming from a non-SP-equipped 325... so your frame of reference will be quite different than TD's. :dunno:


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

Plaz said:


> *You're also coming from a non-SP-equipped 325... so your frame of reference will be quite different than TD's. :dunno: *


As I'm in an E36 M3 with aftermarket shocks.

Anyone who finds an E46 sport suspension to be too firm wouldn't last 10 minutes in my car.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *Ah, but not for the S4 Avant, which is the one I'd want anyway. *


The S4 avant has a mechanical LSD on the rear axle?! Are you sure about that?


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

robg:

not sure if touchdown is referring to the previous and no longer sold new S4 avant or the one inbound.

my guess is the that new one will not have it, as it already is a momentously hefty vehicle; not that the RS4 was not, but this is even bigger.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

pdz said:


> *robg:
> 
> not sure if touchdown is referring to the previous and no longer sold new S4 avant or the one inbound.
> 
> my guess is the that new one will not have it, as it already is a momentously hefty vehicle; not that the RS4 was not, but this is even bigger. *


I assume "touchdown" means me...

I was referring to the "old" S4. I am not considering the new S4 Avant due to price and weight (not that the old one was exactly svelte).

I'll dig up specs on the old one. No, I'm not sure it had LSDs. But I think so.

I KNOW the old E30 iX models had two LSDs.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

robg said:


> *Ahh- that makes sense. I assume you're referring to the original S4 (The A6/Audi 200 based model). Not the second-gen B5 model. You're probably right-- it probably did have a mechanicl rear LSD. AS far as the E30's, wasn't the front LSD an option? *


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

robg said:


> *Ahh- that makes sense. You're probably right-- it probably did have a mechanicl rear LSD. AS far as the E30's, wasn't the front LSD an option? *


Since the "old" S4 is no longer for sale, AudiUSA.com does not have any tech info. A Google search yields conflicting info (3, 2 or 0 LSDs depending on who you ask).

I suspect it's 2, like the E30 iX, one rear and one center with the front axle being an open diff. But that's just a guess. I'll keep digging.


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## 99svtcobra202 (Nov 24, 2002)

Thanks for the input

The BMW is becoming more attractive - based on the latest lease rates we can get a 330Xi for about $30 more a month than the 325xi. (30 month lease)

Appears BMW has too many 330xi on hand. (per dealer)


The audi lease rates are not as attractive - it appears Audi is selling plenty of A4 without having to offer incentives - as Audi is no longer offering lease loyality on the 2003 A4 and you folks appear to agree the Xi with snows is safe enough in the snow we may be coming over to BMW soon

I will keep you posted.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *Since the "old" S4 is no longer for sale, AudiUSA.com does not have any tech info. A Google search yields conflicting info (3, 2 or 0 LSDs depending on who you ask).
> 
> I suspect it's 2, like the E30 iX, one rear and one center with the front axle being an open diff. But that's just a guess. I'll keep digging. *


By "old" do you mean the B5 A4-based S4 or the original A6/Audi 200 based car? If you're referring to the B5, it didn't have a rear LSD.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2003)

robg said:


> *By "old" do you mean the B5 A4-based S4 or the original A6/Audi 200 based car? If you're referring to the B5, it didn't have a rear LSD. *


I know the A6/200-based car had LSDs out the wazz, but I thought the more recent outgoing one had a couple. I was referring to the one that ran through 2001.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

*check this out....*



TD said:


> *I know the A6/200-based car had LSDs out the wazz, but I thought the more recent outgoing one had a couple. I was referring to the one that ran through 2001. *


I did some searches to confirm. I really don't think so. Take a look at this thread at audiworld. they're s4 owners talking about retrofitting a Quaife rear diff (sounds familiar, eh) onto an S4 and whether it will interfere w/ the EDL. ITs a long thread w/ posts from lots of different owners, so its pretty good indicator. . But, those original S4s are pretty damn cool (and built like tanks)-- why not get one of those?

http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1049335.phtml


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