# I am about to give up on BMW



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

I have only had my 330i since June. I have been to the shop 5 times. Nothing major just nit picky little things that go out or don't work correctly. The latest is my rear passenger window come off its track last night. Now I can not raise the window. So now I have to drop the car off *again* and wait another 3 days before I get it back because I do not have an appointment. This is a major pain in the a$$. It's not like this car has been treated rough. The lady that leased it when it was new was a 45 year old CPA. She had all the scheduled maintenance work completed on time. After I purchased the car, I asked for a maintenance report on the car. I needed a binder to keep all the repair reports. What ever happened to the German workmanship that you hear about. Maybe BMW should have some Japanese quality control people on payroll? 
Sad to say  but I'm thinking about selling it and getting a reliable rice burner.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Window regulators are a major problem on the e46, I have had three of mine replaced. 

If you can get the window up part of the way up grab the top of the window and pull up while using the window switch, then push up and on the inside of the glass while using the switch to fully close the window. This has worked for me a couple of times, and then you will be able to drive the car until your scheduled appointment.

If you ever buy another BMW consider buying from a dealer that offers loaner cars.


----------



## postoak (Mar 5, 2002)

I guess it is luck of the draw. I've got 44,000 miles on my 325i now and so far have had 0 defects. That's a better record than my wife's Accord. The Accord has 2 minor defects -- too minor to take the car in for just for them.


----------



## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

Maybe you should have leased/bought a new BMW. :dunno: Over the course of three years, I think my car spent a total of 4 days in the shop. Two of them for scheduled service, one for the sticky pedal replacement, and one for a faulty sensor. IIRC, it never was kept overnight.


----------



## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

The fact the car had a binder of repair reports should have been a sign that there was something wrong with the car. I have owned mine for five years and not had that many problems.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

Artslinger said:


> Window regulators are a major problem on the e46, I have had three of mine replaced.
> 
> If you can get the window up part of the way up grab the top of the window and pull up while using the window switch, then push up and on the inside of the glass while using the switch to fully close the window. This has worked for me a couple of times, and then you will be able to drive the car until your scheduled appointment.
> 
> If you ever buy another BMW consider buying from a dealer that offers loaner cars.


Too late, my buddy thounght pushing down on it would get it back on track. Now the window is in the door. The motor works but it's off the track. I called BMW and sweat talked my way in for tomorrow.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

Desertnate said:


> The fact the car had a binder of repair reports should have been a sign that there was something wrong with the car. I have owned mine for five years and not had that many problems.


The work done on the car was for different little things. Nothing major but my BMW dealer in San Antonio is overworked or understaffed. It hard getting you car worked on with 10 hours. :thumbdwn: My 93 Ford Ranger has 110k miles on it and the only thing that stopped working was the gas gauge at 70K.


----------



## Bimmer4life (Aug 14, 2004)

I never put my windows down any more. Guess I'm lucky in FL we use out air almost all the time. I do use my sunroof alot & never had a problem with that. In my 6 years of ownership I've had the regulators break 4 times, it is a major hassle. So I usually don''t ever put them down anymore. Even for tolls I use Fast Pass.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

Bimmer4life said:


> I never put my windows down any more. Guess I'm lucky in FL we use out air almost all the time. I do use my sunroof alot & never had a problem with that. In my 6 years of ownership I've had the regulators break 4 times, it is a major hassle. So I usually don''t ever put them down anymore. Even for tolls I use Fast Pass.


 What's up with the quality of BMW? People pay a King's ransom for these cars, you would expect they use the best parts on the market. :dunno: 
BMW is cool, they drive like a bat out of hell, the power train is bullet proof but the electronics seems to be the issues :thumbdwn:


----------



## beam3 (Sep 3, 2003)

Not to get off topic, but every single service dept. I've been to seems to be my problem. Three different dealerships in 1 yr because of the lack of service, courtesy & respect. Maybe it's because I'm only 25?? Bad idea since my first BMW purchase was at age 24. Love the cars but I am starting to get turned off from lack of service dept.

The good news...a yr and a half later on my 330ci and no regulators!


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

beam3 said:


> Not to get off topic, but every single service dept. I've been to seems to be my problem. Three different dealerships in 1 yr because of the lack of service, courtesy & respect. Maybe it's because I'm only 25?? Bad idea since my first BMW purchase was at age 24. Love the cars but I am starting to get turned off from lack of service dept.
> 
> The good news...a yr and a half later on my 330ci and no regulators!


They are over worked at BMW :dunno: 
I'm really thinking of selling it and get the new GT Mustang. 300 ponies


----------



## gtvr6 (Apr 19, 2002)

*That's one of BMW's major flaws....I hate my service department*

I find them rude and inconsiderate....Considering people spend 30K and more on a car, the last thing we should put-up with is horrible service.


My last service was so bad that I'm glad my warrenty is up. Then they have the nerve to stick that reminder .... "when you get the phone survey tell them your service was Excellent" Needless to say, I did not rate them excellent.

BMWNA ARE YOU LISTENING......It's bad enough that your cars have annoying issues that need constant repairs....window regulators, bushing, rattles...blah blah....but to have to deal with bad service!!!!!! You must be confident that people are loyal enough to come back....between people complaining about the new designs, the stupid I-drive and what ever else comes out....you should really try to minimize pissing people off where ever possible.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Bimmer4life said:


> I never put my windows down any more. Guess I'm lucky in FL we use out air almost all the time. I do use my sunroof alot & never had a problem with that. In my 6 years of ownership I've had the regulators break 4 times, it is a major hassle. So I usually don''t ever put them down anymore. Even for tolls I use Fast Pass.


I'm with you on this I try never to roll the windows down. The only time I risk it is for parking garages and if it is a beautiful day and it's too hard to resists the fresh air.

Having to worry about rolling your windows down on a 35k car is BS!


----------



## beam3 (Sep 3, 2003)

I've even complained to the general manager at my local BMW service dept. for the utter disrespect of his CUSTOMER SERVICE MANAGER, nonetheless. What did that get me? probably blacklisted. 

They don't even call when your car is ready, you have to call them. What's the deal? $40k plus...and they still treat you as if you're in a kia dealership. These people can care less about their customers, atleast from what I see. Maybe if you buy a new car every 3 months you'll get better treatment. 

Service Depts rely heavily on the customer surveys, so when BMWNA calls you and you've have horrible or even subpar service make sure you let them know.


----------



## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

BMW sales are UP every year. Obviously BMWNA feels that it's not important to address problems with dealers, since they're making more money annually.

Until sales start sliding, or someone that cares more about 'doing things right' instead of 'making money' takes Tom Purves place, we won't see a change.

And anyone who bought a BMW thinking they are reliable cars have been scammed.


----------



## beam3 (Sep 3, 2003)

Totally agree with you on that one Kaz, it's just a shame that's how it works with a corporation selling $40-$80k products everyday. I'd be damned if that attitude was accepted in my company.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

beam3 said:


> I've even complained to the general manager at my local BMW service dept. for the utter disrespect of his CUSTOMER SERVICE MANAGER, nonetheless. What did that get me? probably blacklisted.
> 
> They don't even call when your car is ready, you have to call them. What's the deal? $40k plus...and they still treat you as if you're in a kia dealership. These people can care less about their customers, atleast from what I see. Maybe if you buy a new car every 3 months you'll get better treatment.
> 
> Service Depts rely heavily on the customer surveys, so when BMWNA calls you and you've have horrible or even subpar service make sure you let them know.


I e-mail the contact us on the Corp BMW web-site. Within hours the dealers calls me kissing up. Everone should do the same. Corp will get the picture and do damage control


----------



## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Alamo said:


> I e-mail the contact us on the Corp BMW web-site. Within hours the dealers calls me kissing up. Everone should do the same. Corp will get the picture and do damage control


I'm surprised you didn't get the usual line from BMWNA: "BMW dealers are independent businesses, and BMW North America does not have control over their practices"


----------



## Crawlings (Sep 27, 2004)

Alamo said:


> The work done on the car was for different little things. Nothing major but my BMW dealer in San Antonio is overworked or understaffed. It hard getting you car worked on with 10 hours. :thumbdwn: My 93 Ford Ranger has 110k miles on it and the only thing that stopped working was the gas gauge at 70K.


I hear you man, I hope you still have that Ranger. I have a 93 Ranger too and it currently has 200K on it now and its running like a true champ, and NEVER had any work done to it. It's more reliable than even japmobiles.


----------



## Bimmer4life (Aug 14, 2004)

It's true, I just don't put my windows down anymore unless like you said it's absolutely necessary (sometimes I will open the door to avoid the window)  Just too afraid they won't go back up.  In our winter months (no snow) sometimes I wish I could open them.  

The last time I had my car serviced at a BMW dealer was a couple years ago (I use an independent shop that specializes in BMW & Mercedes) and I ended up having to call the dealership at 5:00 to see if my car was ready, they guy said yeah it's been ready for a couple hours. I was like well why didn't you call me? However they did give me a loner which was nice. 

I remember they treated me like a king the first year of ownership then it's not so great. My latest was $800 + for a new Cd changer not including labour to take it out. I about died. $500 + labour to fix the one I had (they originally put it in 99) would take 4-6 weeks to ship it out & fix the old one) I said NO way. So I bought a factory BMW Alpine for less than $500.00 & installed it myself today. I saved time, money. Now it's working perfect again for me. Yippee!! Little things make me happy. 

I would have gladly given the money to the dealer to do this if they just didn't suck my wallet dry but they didn't seem to care about helping me with the price at all.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

Bimmer4life said:


> It's true, I just don't put my windows down anymore unless like you said it's absolutely necessary (sometimes I will open the door to avoid the window)  Just too afraid they won't go back up.  In our winter months (no snow) sometimes I wish I could open them.
> 
> The last time I had my car serviced at a BMW dealer was a couple years ago (I use an independent shop that specializes in BMW & Mercedes) and I ended up having to call the dealership at 5:00 to see if my car was ready, they guy said yeah it's been ready for a couple hours. I was like well why didn't you call me? However they did give me a loner which was nice.
> 
> ...


That is so wrong not wanting open your windows because your afraid it will not go back up.
Does the X-5 have many complaints? If not, send the other plants to the U.S.


----------



## Eduardo (Jul 13, 2004)

*I love my service centre.*



gtvr6 said:


> I find them rude and inconsiderate....Considering people spend 30K and more on a car, the last thing we should put-up with is horrible service.
> 
> 
> My last service was so bad that I'm glad my warrenty is up. Then they have the nerve to stick that reminder .... "when you get the phone survey tell them your service was Excellent" Needless to say, I did not rate them excellent.


Thus far my two month old 2004 330i has no problems :thumbup: , but I did take my auto to get the oil changed after the 'break-in' period. New Century gave me awful service. It took about two-half hours for an oil/filter change. You would think that for a $45,000 auto their service people would be professional and courteous! :tsk:

I gave New Century a bad score when BMWNA telephoned me. I wanted to laugh when the survey person asked me "is there anything you would like us to tell New Cnetury?". 

My next oil change (at 7,500 miles) I'm looking at an independent BMW mechanic. :thumbup:

Part of the service and loyalty to a brand is cultivated and maintained post-sale.


----------



## Eduardo (Jul 13, 2004)

Alamo said:


> That is so wrong not wanting open your windows because your afraid it will not go back up.
> Does the X-5 have many complaints? If not, send the other plants to the U.S.


Very sad indeed. My last car (read: not automobile) was a 1998 CR-V; I never had problems with my windows. Thus far I don't think the 2004 mid/later build 3 series had the window problems.


----------



## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

Alamo said:


> What's up with the quality of BMW? People pay a King's ransom for these cars, you would expect they use the best parts on the market. :dunno:
> BMW is cool, they drive like a bat out of hell, the power train is bullet proof but the electronics seems to be the issues :thumbdwn:


 I feel your pain but I guess I must have been lucky. I have owned a BMW since Oct. 97 and have not any unscheduled service until this past Friday. Electrical systems went on the blink which were traced on Monday to a loose connection in my CD player. Reconnected the CD player and everything went back to normal. So I guess you cannot really call a mechanical failure.

I must also be lucky with my servicing dealership (neither of my cars were bought there). On Monday morning I showed up without an appointment for the electrical issues. The car was checked out that afternoon and I picked up the car at 6 PM. Have you tried getting your car serviced at another dealership. :dunno: You are not obligated to have warranty work done at the selling dealership. I would not attempt to do that since my ca was bought in Bryan, 100 miles from Houston.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

Crawlings said:


> I hear you man, I hope you still have that Ranger. I have a 93 Ranger too and it currently has 200K on it now and its running like a true champ, and NEVER had any work done to it. It's more reliable than even japmobiles.


I forgot to mention to you. I have had 6 Mexican nationals offer me an averasge of $4500 for my Ranger. The deal is, you can not take a truck to Mexico and sell it until it's ten years old or older. So living in San Antonio, these Mexican buyers when they notice a 10 yr old Ranger they offer to buy it. They take it accross and sell it and make a couple of $K. THey really love the Ranger


----------



## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

Crawlings said:


> I hear you man, I hope you still have that Ranger. I have a 93 Ranger too and it currently has 200K on it now and its running like a true champ, and NEVER had any work done to it. It's more reliable than even japmobiles.


Good old fashioned stone-age technology... :thumbup:

I liked the rental Rangers I used to get from Budget...thinking of buying one as a tow vehicle/for when my BMW is being repaired.... (that should take care of 95% of my driving  )


----------



## e46shift (Oct 12, 2002)

www.dealerrater.com ? :angel:


----------



## sshuit (Apr 15, 2002)

*Lexus Service comparison.*

My local Lexus dealer is one of the largest in Ontario and has a total of TWO full time mechanics. And strangely enough you never need an appointment.

:thumbup:


----------



## beam3 (Sep 3, 2003)

Eduardo said:


> Thus far my two month old 2004 330i has no problems :thumbup: , but I did take my auto to get the oil changed after the 'break-in' period. New Century gave me awful service. It took about two-half hours for an oil/filter change. You would think that for a $45,000 auto their service people would be professional and courteous! :tsk:
> 
> I gave New Century a bad score when BMWNA telephoned me. I wanted to laugh when the survey person asked me "is there anything you would like us to tell New Cnetury?".
> 
> ...


I had the same experience with Princeton BMW in NJ. Took the car in for the 15k service during lunch thinking that it only takes an hour to change the oil and was sitting there for 3 hours. Finally after 2 hours I opened up my mouth to only find they haven't started it yet. And that it would be another half hour on top of when it was finished to get washed.

So I took my dirty car home and washed it myself.

Guess I shoudn't schedule service on dress down Fridays.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

beam3 said:


> I had the same experience with Princeton BMW in NJ. Took the car in for the 15k service during lunch thinking that it only takes an hour to change the oil and was sitting there for 3 hours. Finally after 2 hours I opened up my mouth to only find they haven't started it yet. And that it would be another half hour on top of when it was finished to get washed.
> 
> So I took my dirty car home and washed it myself.
> 
> Guess I shoudn't schedule service on dress down Fridays.


Well, it's out of the shop now. Going to the Autotrader office to list it for sale. I'm done with it.


----------



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

LDV330i said:


> I feel your pain but I guess I must have been lucky. I have owned a BMW since Oct. 97 and have not any unscheduled service until this past Friday. Electrical systems went on the blink which were traced on Monday to a loose connection in my CD player. Reconnected the CD player and everything went back to normal. So I guess you cannot really call a mechanical failure.


On that basis I have also been very lucky - although two early diff failures didn't engender much sense of dependability. But after that, I've had no problems. No exploding windows, no weird stereo behaviour, no bad starting, idling, running, coughing, stalling etc. BMW-owning friends of mine have been lucky too - four of them run E46s (two six-cyl, two four-cyl), and have reported only piddling problems like a squeaky seat, or a tailgate rattle, usually when the car was brand new. The E36 I ran - and the E36s still being run by a few folks I know - did seem to be more reliable, granted.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> On that basis I have also been very lucky - although two early diff failures didn't engender much sense of dependability. But after that, I've had no problems. No exploding windows, no weird stereo behaviour, no bad starting, idling, running, coughing, stalling etc. BMW-owning friends of mine have been lucky too - four of them run E46s (two six-cyl, two four-cyl), and have reported only piddling problems like a squeaky seat, or a tailgate rattle, usually when the car was brand new. The E36 I ran - and the E36s still being run by a few folks I know - did seem to be more reliable, granted.


I can't believe this. After picking up my 330i from the BMW shop, I notice on the way home that my window tint was scratched up. Either the Tech scratched it or the window falling off the track caused it. You would assume the tech would talk to the service manager about the tint. When I dropped it off the get the window repair, I distinctly mentioned to the service rep to have the tint check for any scratched. I called BMW and left a VM stating what I found. I'm sure I'll have to call again later today because they don't return calls within 24 hours.  
Now I understand that Lexus commercial where the German product manager or what ever he is being called to the board room.


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Alamo said:


> Now I understand that Lexus commercial where the German product manager or what ever he is being called to the board room.


What commercial is that? I don't think i've seen it..sounds funny.


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

robg said:


> What commercial is that? I don't think i've seen it..sounds funny.


It shows the new Lexus SUV at a German R&D location. They show some guys wearing white lab coats and holding clip boards. The product manger or what ever he is is informed that "they are waiting for you". It shows him walking up to this room with two gaint closed doors. He does not look very happy having to walk into this room.


----------



## oarnura (Oct 15, 2004)

*Lexus!!!*



Alamo said:


> It shows the new Lexus SUV at a German R&D location. They show some guys wearing white lab coats and holding clip boards. The product manger or what ever he is is informed that "they are waiting for you". It shows him walking up to this room with two gaint closed doors. He does not look very happy having to walk into this room.


Lexus should really lay off the commercials. Lexus claims to have invented the Adaptive head lights, Keyless proximity detected vehicles in their commercials. I remember reading about adaptive headlights in BMW magazine in 1996. MB had the proximity detected keyless entry in the new SL in 2001.

Lexus commercials are talking about these in 2004 calling them lexus innovations. "Another innovation from Lexus". Right!!!

Lexus does some nice work in the industry but they shouldn't blatantly claim others work as thiers.

BTW, some Lexus SUVs have a nasty problem of transmissions blowing up if they are towed.



> If you tow an RX-300, you run a high risk of destroying the transmission. Of course, that's true of many cars, but the RX-300 was designed to be towed. It said so right in the manual, or at least it did until this year, after the little problem became a big, expensive problem.


http://www.asktog.com/columns/053CallCenters.html#Lexus

And thier recommended solution

http://www.asktog.com/columns/065WorstInterface.html

No car manufacturer is invincible Honda and Toyota have had serious recalls. Acura owners have told me storied of transmission recalls and engine recalls.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

oarnura said:


> No car manufacturer is invincible Honda and Toyota have had serious recalls.


That's one of my pet peeves about BMW, though... They rarely recall their vehicles unless it's something really, really bad... like the car won't run, or the engine blows up (New 7 series and the M3 debacle come to mind)... Otherwise, it's all "On customer complaint"... For silly but still annoying problems (like coupe door seals / trim, window regulators, the sticky throttle pedal, etc.) it's up to the owner to keep on top of things and be thier own service advisor, and DEMAND the appropriate repairs... My dealer claims to run checks on recalls, updates, etc. but have thus far never said to me, "Oh by the way, your vehicle needed X, so we went ahead and did it, no cost..." I always have to complain about the perceived issue (which does not always get a response) and usually I end up finding the TSB and laying it on them... of course, this endears me to my SA all the more... That being said, I've gotten pretty good at finding the TSBs, so I don't hesitate to lay it on them... to the point of printing it out and handing it to the SA when I walk in... I have had my software upgraded, new CD players installed, the throttle pedal replaced, seat heater controls replaced, etc. all due to my diligence... It shouldn't be that way, but since BMW seems to take a hands off approach once you take delivery, I guess that the way it will continue to be for the near future... :dunno:


----------



## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

oarnura said:


> No car manufacturer is invincible Honda and Toyota have had serious recalls. Acura owners have told me storied of transmission recalls and engine recalls.


At least everyone else issues recalls at all. BMW literally has to have garages burn to the ground before issuing a recall ('01 aux fans). A lot of the even major recalls from the other automakers happen even if there have been no reported incidents at all.

It's a veil of quality over BMW that needs to be lifted.


----------



## Eduardo (Jul 13, 2004)

Salvator said:


> That's one of my pet peeves about BMW, though... They rarely recall their vehicles unless it's something really, really bad... like the car won't run, or the engine blows up (New 7 series and the M3 debacle come to mind)... Otherwise, it's all "On customer complaint"... For silly but still annoying problems (like coupe door seals / trim, window regulators, the sticky throttle pedal, etc.) it's up to the owner to keep on top of things and be thier own service advisor, and DEMAND the appropriate repairs... My dealer claims to run checks on recalls, updates, etc. but have thus far never said to me, "Oh by the way, your vehicle needed X, so we went ahead and did it, no cost..." I always have to complain about the perceived issue (which does not always get a response) and usually I end up finding the TSB and laying it on them... of course, this endears me to my SA all the more... That being said, I've gotten pretty good at finding the TSBs, so I don't hesitate to lay it on them... to the point of printing it out and handing it to the SA when I walk in... I have had my software upgraded, new CD players installed, the throttle pedal replaced, seat heater controls replaced, etc. all due to my diligence... It shouldn't be that way, but since BMW seems to take a hands off approach once you take delivery, I guess that the way it will continue to be for the near future... :dunno:


Where is one place to read current BMW TSB's?


----------



## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

Salvator said:


> That's one of my pet peeves about BMW, though... They rarely recall their vehicles unless it's something really, really bad... like the car won't run, or the engine blows up (New 7 series and the M3 debacle come to mind)... Otherwise, it's all "On customer complaint"... For silly but still annoying problems (like coupe door seals / trim, window regulators, the sticky throttle pedal, etc.) it's up to the owner to keep on top of things and be thier own service advisor, and DEMAND the appropriate repairs... My dealer claims to run checks on recalls, updates, etc. but have thus far never said to me, "Oh by the way, your vehicle needed X, so we went ahead and did it, no cost..." I always have to complain about the perceived issue (which does not always get a response) and usually I end up finding the TSB and laying it on them... of course, this endears me to my SA all the more... That being said, I've gotten pretty good at finding the TSBs, so I don't hesitate to lay it on them... to the point of printing it out and handing it to the SA when I walk in... I have had my software upgraded, new CD players installed, the throttle pedal replaced, seat heater controls replaced, etc. all due to my diligence... It shouldn't be that way, but since BMW seems to take a hands off approach once you take delivery, I guess that the way it will continue to be for the near future... :dunno:


According to my work order, they replaced something in the power window per the BMW notice. That tells me BMW knows they have a f..ked up part but they will not recall it. It appears to by an internal notice. It does not matter for me now. I just put my car on Autotrader


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Eduardo said:


> Where is one place to read current BMW TSB's?


I review www.alldata.com under the enthusiast's section... For example, here is my car... http://www.alldata.com/TSB/06/0106A243.html The TSB's are not complete, but give you at least enough info that you can point out that you know something is going on... Once you have the TSB number, searches on various BMW forums for that TSB number usually give you more detail... For example, here's a nice stash of full-blown TSBs that I found that way...

Have fun! :banana:

http://members.roadfly.org/bmw_e46_m3/index.html


----------

