# New BMW minivan rumors



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

These rumors were started by Michael Ganal, a member of BMW AG's executive committee...



> *BMW considers minivan launch after 2006, paper says*
> Reuters / June 21, 2004
> 
> FRANKFURT -- BMW AG is considering launching a minivan, but it might not do so before 2006, board member Michael Ganal was quoted as saying in an interview released by a newspaper on Sunday.
> ...


Another angle on the story...

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/business/2004/06/21/2004062133766.htm



> *Future of BMW minivan is far down the road*
> Posted Monday, June 21, 2004 - 9:20 pm
> 
> By Woody White
> ...


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Of course, in an interview with the Wall Street Journal in November 2003, BMW CEO Helmet Panke said...



> There is a segment in the market which BMW is not catering to and that is the minivan or the MPV segment. We don't have a van because a van as it is in the market today does not fulfill any of the BMW group brand values. We all as a team said no. We will not bring a van.


http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=593512&postcount=28

:dunno:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

I think it's inevitable. The euro market is ga-ga over minivans (or mini-minivans if they were in the US market) in the same way we are about SUVs.

A potnetial problem would be that a RWD-based minivan isn't going to have the packaging efficiency that a FWD one naturally does. It'll sorta be like the X5 in the sense that for its overall size it won't have very good passenger and cargo capacity, though that hasn't stopped the X5.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

One more news item I found on this subject...

http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=4608&cat=Industry



> March 8, 10:47 AM
> *BMW Considers Minivan-Like Vehicle*
> 
> According to Automotive News, BMW is "developing two multi-purpose vehicles with high roofs for the world market." The vehicles are minivan-like in appearance, although BMW does not identify the models with the popular, but "unsporty" vehicles.
> ...


The "sporty handling" aspect seems to indicate RWD, as you mentioned.


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## Will_325i (Jan 27, 2004)

Sporty-SUVs have been done. Sporty pickup trucks have been done. 

Can a sporty Minivan be done? I don't think so. I mean sure, you can design and build a Minivan with a big engine, better than average suspension and wheels/tires, and of course a sliding side door..... but could you actually sell significant numbers of them ?? 

What kind of buyer would say..."Yeah, I want performance and carry my 5 kids too!" ?


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Will_325i said:


> Sporty-SUVs have been done. Sporty pickup trucks have been done.
> 
> Can a sporty Minivan be done? I don't think so. I mean sure, you can design and build a Minivan with a big engine, better than average suspension and wheels/tires, and of course a sliding side door..... but could you actually sell significant numbers of them ??
> 
> What kind of buyer would say..."Yeah, I want performance and carry my 5 kids too!" ?


I think it can...

Opel/Vauxhall have been building a GSi version of their 7-seat Zaphira for a while now. It comes with a lower/stiffer suspension and a pretty decent turbo engine. While I have not personally driven one I have heard it is pretty entertaining for an MPV.

I drove a UK spec Ford Galaxy for a week. The version I drove was a rental and therefore had one of the bottom petrol engines, base tires/suspension and such. Even in that trim, it was much more pleasent to drive than any of the American mush-mobiles I have driven here. There were packages for the Galaxy that put better wheels/tires and engines on them. A little better suspension work would be that much of a strech.

Those solutions are half way there. I think BMW could pull it off, but the RWD would make it a real challenge. Seating would be awkward with the drive shaft tunnel running down through the middle, and all of the rear drivetrain and suspension would really cut into the cargo space. There would be no way to fold the seats flat unless there were two rows of bucket seats in which to fold on either side of the tunnel.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

Desertnate said:


> I think it can...
> 
> Opel/Vauxhall have been building a GSi version of their 7-seat Zaphira for a while now. It comes with a lower/stiffer suspension and a pretty decent turbo engine. While I have not personally driven one I have heard it is pretty entertaining for an MPV.
> 
> ...


Chrysler has minivans with 4 wheel drive and no tunnel intruding the passenger compartment... thus BMW will not have any problem making a flat floor in this vehicle. I think that this BMW Minivan_-Like_ vehicle will be real good in what it will be designed for. Which I do not think it will be to be a real Minivan like the competition... :dunno:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Technic said:


> Chrysler has minivans with 4 wheel drive and no tunnel intruding the passenger compartment... thus BMW will not have any problem making a flat floor in this vehicle. I think that this BMW Minivan_-Like_ vehicle will be real good in what it will be designed for. Which I do not think it will be to be a real Minivan like the competition... :dunno:


Because the Caravan is a FWD vehicle with a tiny driveshaft sharing space with the exhaust. A RWD platform would have to have the transmission, the transfer case, and a larger driveshaft down there along with the requisite dual exhaust and a real rear suspension. Architecturally it would be like a low SUV than what we think of as a minivan.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

what's the point?

Minivans are just lowered SUV's anyway 


:bigpimp: :bigpimp: :bigpimp:


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

atyclb said:


> what's the point?
> 
> Minivans are just lowered SUV's anyway
> 
> :bigpimp: :bigpimp: :bigpimp:


Or is an SUV nothing more than a jacked up minivan... :eeps:

:angel:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Desertnate said:


> Or is an SUV nothing more than a jacked up minivan... :eeps:
> 
> :angel:


If you ask Honda, they're all the same.

Accord -> Odyssey -> MDX -> Pilot -> new pickup
Accord -> TL -> RL


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Kaz said:


> If you ask Honda, they're all the same.
> 
> Accord -> Odyssey -> MDX -> Pilot -> new pickup
> Accord -> TL -> RL


True...True...

I am curious how truly useful the new Honda pickup will be. I don't see how a truck based on a unibody frame with (presumably) fully idependant suspension at all four corners will be able to do "truck" duty. Even Ford has left its trucks alone and seprated out the SUV's to different bodies/suspensions.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Desertnate said:


> True...True...
> 
> I am curious how truly useful the new Honda pickup will be. I don't see how a truck based on a unibody frame with (presumably) fully idependant suspension at all four corners will be able to do "truck" duty. Even Ford has left its trucks alone and seprated out the SUV's to different bodies/suspensions.


I think Honda is going after the people who have a pickup because they think it's cool to look like a rancher/*******/Uncle Jesse, not because they have a 15hp compressor and 800lb of painting contractor supplies.

I'd say 85% of the pickups I see serve no pickup duties whatsoever. It'll probably have decent sales on the coasts, but Honda might as well not even try selling it in middle America.


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## Will_325i (Jan 27, 2004)

Desertnate said:


> I don't see how a truck based on a unibody frame with (presumably) fully idependant suspension at all four corners will be able to do "truck" duty.


It won't. It'll be for those few people that want a truck but don't need a truck.

Given it's unibody and suspension, it should have a great ride for a "truck".


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Kaz said:


> I'd say 85% of the pickups I see serve no pickup duties whatsoever. It'll probably have decent sales on the coasts, but Honda might as well not even try selling it in middle America.


That's the truth. Here on the edge or rural Illinois, the trucks are hauling seed/hay, fishing/duck hunting boats, construction supplies, deer :eeps: , and all sorts of other stuff. I don't see a cream puff from Honda getting much attention. Here it is the land of the F-150 and the Dodge 1500


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

Kaz said:


> Because the Caravan is a FWD vehicle with a tiny driveshaft sharing space with the exhaust. A RWD platform would have to have the transmission, the transfer case, and a larger driveshaft down there along with the requisite dual exhaust and a real rear suspension. *Architecturally it would be like a low SUV than what we think of as a minivan.*


Maybe the BMW 'minivan' will not be RWD after all but 4WD... or if it is RWD, it will not be what we think a minivan should be, as you just stated. If they are getting into this van game, it has to be a real people and cargo mover, otherwise it will serve no business purpose. Therefore this packaging issue should be no problem.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Technic said:


> Maybe the BMW 'minivan' will not be RWD after all but 4WD... or if it is RWD, it will not be what we think a minivan should be, as you just stated. If they are getting into this van game, it has to be a real people and cargo mover, otherwise it will serve no business purpose. Therefore this packaging issue should be no problem.


Well, unless BMW is going to either develop a new platform, or use the MINI  for this, it won't be on a FWD-based AWD platform since one like that doesn't exist. I agree that it'll probably be AWD, but a RWD-based system with the requisite stuff I posted earlier.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

atyclb said:


> what's the point?


Being able to carry five people and luggage in something that doesn't weigh 2.5 tons. Compact MPVs (GM Zafira, Renault Scenic, Focus C-Max, VW Touran, A-class etc.) are sounding the death knell for traditional family hatchbacks on this side of the pond, and small four-door saloons are practically non-existent.


> Minivans are just lowered SUV's anyway


But without the pointless, marginal and wasteful "off-road" 4WD function. An X3 without all that gubbins underneath, a bit more passenger space and 3 inches closer to the ground would be much more like it... oh wait, BMW is marketing the next Touring as an MPV .


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## remington (Jul 3, 2003)

My wife drives a 2003 Chrysler Town & Country Limited All-wheel drive. We spent about $35k on it. We wanted a luxurious powerful minivan and were sorely disappointed in what is out there. I know many people, myself included, that would jump at a luxury minivan from Europe or otherwise. I'm talking 8 cylinders, all or rear wheel drive, luxury inside and european handling, in the $40k-50k range. 

I have lots of peers that would go for this. This is a hugely overlooked segment of the market.

Most of you guys are just too young to have the need.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

remington said:


> I have lots of peers that would go for this. This is a hugely overlooked segment of the market.
> 
> Most of you guys are just too young to have the need.


Not true...we just go for seven seat SUVs... :eeps:


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

remington said:


> My wife drives a 2003 Chrysler Town & Country Limited All-wheel drive. We spent about $35k on it. We wanted a luxurious powerful minivan and were sorely disappointed in what is out there. I know many people, myself included, that would jump at a luxury minivan from Europe or otherwise. I'm talking 8 cylinders, all or rear wheel drive, luxury inside and european handling, in the $40k-50k range.
> 
> I have lots of peers that would go for this. This is a hugely overlooked segment of the market.
> 
> Most of you guys are just too young to have the need.


I can see myself needing a minivan in the future. If I have 3 or 4 kids, it'd be very useful, especially since I don't want an SUV (lower gas mileage, no need for hauling/towing, no need for off-road capabilities). If I could get a relatively sporty and well-handling MPV, all the better.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

A BMW minivan probably has no chance of winding up in our driveway. Both me and my wife hate sitting up high. A lower center of gravity just feels safer to us. 

Also, a minivan would almost have to be my wife's (I ain't driving a truck everyday  ), and she doesn't want the hassles of owning a "nice" car (worrying about door dings, worrying what other people think, worrying about being carjacked when she's out with our two little kiddies...  ).


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## otto325ci (Apr 16, 2002)

I found a couple of pics, one is a concept 1 series and the other a 5 series minivan. I just hope that BMW develops a performance hybrid engine. I think that would really attract people away from the gas guzzling SUVs.

here is the link for more info... In German
http://www.autobild.de/aktuell/neuh...6430&A_SESS=af7e8be532f465c36693d4644332ce89#


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Hopefully BMW will get into cargo vans and pickup trucks next.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

JPinTO said:


> Hopefully BMW will get into cargo vans and pickup trucks next.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Oh boy a BMW Minivan... :clap: 


just kidding... :thumbdwn:


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

swchang said:


>


LOL!

Way to masculine looking for a Bangle creation... perhaps more like the Honda element.


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## Will_325i (Jan 27, 2004)

Oh, look, the all-new 150i



swchang said:


>


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## Morat (Oct 15, 2007)

Is this likely to be something in the 5 series size bracket with a higher roof and another row of seats? In Europe that would probably have a V8 at the top of the range but 75% of the sales would be for a turbo diesel.

Personally I think that if BMW get into family moving market they should get right into it and have zip off washable seat covers, sponge down interiors (rubber mats over/instead of carpets) some kind of water and odour proof removable storage for the inevitable accidents and integrated child safety seats/airbags. The luxury pack can have the DVD screens/playstations and possibly a sliding glass screen like a limo to provide full soundproofing between the front seats and the back 

If they make a luxurious space designed for adults with leather and brushed chrome it'll just be a constant worry to parents.


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## civic34 (Nov 6, 2007)

I think this thread was dead like 3 years ago.....let it go man.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Not entirely dead, although probably on life support. The V5 was (is?) waiting in the wings, but thankfully the R Class showed how non-existent the premium van segment is.


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## germanblood (Aug 12, 2005)

I don't think the shift from heavy, high rise, SUVs towards sportier minivan-like cars has happened quite yet in the U.S. Allthough smaller SUVs are becoming more and more popular, these are realtively inexpensive higher riding cars based on existing car platforms. As we've seen with the most people aren't willing to drop $45k plus for a luxury minivan look alike- see R Class. Even though MB hasn't sold as many copies of the R Class as they initially intended, BMW seems to still be developing a counter:
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/05/bmw-rfk-to-take-on-mb-r-class/


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## germanblood (Aug 12, 2005)

*More on possible RFK*

From WCF:
_According to a BMW source, "The RFK will be a sleek fastback coupe-like vehicle although it will not be as spacious or plain as the R-Klasse (which is aimed at the US). The RFK will appeal to the continental European. It will drive like a car, handle like a car and have the same weight distribution as a car".
As of now the RFK will feature a petrol twin-turbo engine from the forthcoming 335i, a twin-turbo diesel from 535d, a new twin-turbo V8 petrol with 450 bhp and a V8 diesel with 380 bhp. A Hydrogen powered no-emission vehicle will also follow later as will probably a V12. Dynamic Drive will enter its next phase which will include a new axle design developed especially for excellent driving characteristics in such a vehicle.

_


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## germanblood (Aug 12, 2005)

Doesn't seem as dead as some would like to believe- this is only two months old:
http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evospyshots/210593/bmw_rfkv5.html


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## SailinSand (Aug 24, 2007)

BJ could get rid of his Honda Odyssey and get a BMW Minivan...oh I can smell the status from here. ...Wonder if you will be able to get it w/ Leatherette.


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

most families in my neighborhood has a minivan or 3 row suv. Most have 2 or more kids (or grandkids). we'll probably add one too, and with in-laws visiting often, a 6-person vehicle will probably be necessary. it would be great if BMW offers an minivan - it could still drive better than SUVs, and being more practical. 

I know many families wouldn't mind paying for a $45K BMW van.

Is the RFK just like a wagon?


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

We have an '07 Odyssey because there is nothing else if you loathe SUVs and have a family of four or more.
Looked at the diesel MB R class but it seemed just like a long car.
Love being able to move around inside the van as we take several long trips (600-1050 miles) a year.

Odyssey = OK mileage, well thought out interior. Good lease.

Over Christmas we had the Odyssey in northern MA and VT. It snowed a foot and sometimes more for several days.
The FWD platform had zero problems getting around.
I would pay more/month for something better, but in the South we have zero need for an AWD jacked up behemoth that you cannot walk in.

If BMW made a high quality van, we would probably lease it (have not bought a car in over 10 years and probably will never again accept for hobby vehicles).


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

Its here!


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## CanadianDriver (Jun 7, 2007)

This is embarrassing... this guy lives in Ontario, somewhere in the GTA! :tsk:



Clarke said:


> Its here!


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## klu123 (Nov 4, 2005)

I really doubt if BMW will bring a minivan to market. Even the new X5 is a 7-passenger SUV, it is still very tight, the 3rd-row seats are very uncomfortable, and there is virtually no luggage space behind the 3rd row. In other words, so far there is no BMW qualified as a spacious people hauler, because it's against BMW's philosophy.

Will BMW introduce a R-class counterpart, rumored as V5? I don't know, maybe, and I hope not. The R-class is more of a 6-passenger wagon than a minivan, no matter what it is called. Does anyone know how many it sells a year? In my area, I've seen plenty of ML and even GL, but rarely an R. 

A joke on MB's R63 AMG - it's designed for a soccer mom carrying 5 kids racing to 60 in 4 seconds and cruising at 150 mph. Wow, we should see 6-helmets at least as an option.


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