# I'm Done With BMW



## wolfen (Jul 2, 2007)

335bhak said:


> hmm I totally disagree. They are all equally inferior- including the Hondas- well especially Hondas. How many RWD or FM platforms does Honda have? Sorry but Honda/ Acura would be last on my list aside from an MDX or S2K.
> I guess its all in your priorities. Do you want a grocery getter or a drivers car? I think that most Bimmer drivers are driving enthusiasts who will have a diluted driving experience in a Honda.


Diluted is an understatement.


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

wolfen said:


> Diluted is an understatement.


You are completely missing my point.

'If I wanted a dependable Japanese car...' is not the same as 'If I was in the market for an enthusiasts machine'.
Trust me the Odyssey is what it is...kid hauler.

The lux Japanese brands just are not on my radar, my loss I guess.


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## 335bhak (Nov 6, 2007)

> But the last sentence is weak. An M45 is a very satisfying car and a lot better than a 5-series.


I refuse to beleive that! C'mon it generally takes a top tier Infiniti to even match the level of prestige that an entry level BMW can provide in the way of quality and performance. Let alone beign better than a 5 series. 
My family has always owned german cars- primarily BMW and MBZ. I couldn't see myself driving anything else ever. Prior to this car I had a 1990 3 series convertible. People would always tellme how nice my car was. No one knew it was 16 years old. My cousin (and roommate for a while) bought a brand new 2004 (in 2004 mind you) s2000. People would still say that my car looked better or was nicer than his (I really kept it up).


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## cvt (Mar 16, 2007)

To the OP. 

I drive an Infiniti, it's great...I am not loyal to a brand on anything else. When I was shopping around for a car I went to Lexus, Acura, Audi, BMW and found out what I wanted. When I did, I was just patient and bought what felt right for me and what I really wanted in a car (for the longest time I was on the fence on the 335i/G37S). I have made my purchase with no regrets.

My suggestion is that you try another dealer. Don't get discouraged and make sure you buy what you want. If you have been longing for a BMW and you get something else you're going to feel terrible about. Can't you inquire about other dealerships outside of your province? I had thought that all BMW dealerships were the same...that is not the case. You'll find ones that stick their noses up at you and you find ones that will do anything to seat you in a Bavarian. Don't give up and keep at it.

Making a car purchase out of spite or ill-feelings will only make you more miserable.

Just relax...and good luck!


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

You guys are mostly missing the point, it's not the car, it's not the dealer, but BMW Canada.

We can buy a TV for a little cheaper in the U.S. (maybe 10%) but BMW pricing (30% higher) is outrageous, and worse they put all these barriers up to prevent you from crossing the border with one. I can simply order a TV from a US retailer and get it shipped acrros the border, pay out federal and provincial sakles tax, and duty (~5%) and be done with it. 

BMW Canada wants to charge $1000 to type out a letter (10 mins) after running the car's VIN in their computer (5 min), and seeing if all recalls have been completed. Then they want a few other charges ~$500 to issue other documents and then threaten to 'perhaps' not honor warranty work. It's their perrogative to protect their Canadian dealer network, just like it's the OP's perrogative to buy an Infiniti in response.

And there are plenty of cars just as nice as BMWs, some are better in some ways, worse in others. I wonder if all BMW snobs on this board have any actual first hand experience beyond a 5 min test drive, or an internet posting, or a 'tale from their buddy' on which they base their opinion. BMW's may drive very nicely, but their interiors are near the bottom of the class of their competitors. The only marque worse is perhaps Volvo.


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## cvt (Mar 16, 2007)

93LE said:


> You guys are mostly missing the point, it's not the car, it's not the dealer, but BMW Canada.
> 
> We can buy a TV for a little cheaper in the U.S. (maybe 10%) but BMW pricing (30% higher) is outrageous, and worse they put all these barriers up to prevent you from crossing the border with one. I can simply order a TV from a US retailer and get it shipped acrros the border, pay out federal and provincial sakles tax, and duty (~5%) and be done with it.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you are saying about opening your mind to other cars. My point was that he wanted a BMW and he should not settle for something he doesn't want.

Are you exaggerating about those prices? That seems ludirous to me. If that is the case then CANADA BMW is not interested in being competitive or selling cars then....


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## #5880 (Feb 11, 2006)

Are ALL Canadians trouble makers?


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## spycar (Nov 2, 2007)

mullman said:


> Got specs/pics?


I sent you a pm with specs and photo link.


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## lubbock57 (Aug 19, 2007)

Well said 93LE.


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## lubbock57 (Aug 19, 2007)

CVT,

sadly 93LE was in no way exagerating the disparity of pricing on BMW's between the US and Canada. BMW will coyly acknowledge that there is a "little" difference and has come up with some minor rate changes to leases and financing but has not budged a penny on their pricing. 

Perfect example.......535i lists for ~$49,500 US and for ~$69,800 CDN


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## cvt (Mar 16, 2007)

really? even after the US dollar is almost 1:1 with the canadian dollar? that doesn't seem right? what is their official stance for such a wide discrepancy? luxury tax?

wow. that doesn't make any sense, bimmers are great cars but that is a huge premium to pay.


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## Bimmer_Bob (Sep 7, 2006)

I know BMW, and Infinty, you are no BMW... :tsk:


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## Needagarage (Sep 9, 2007)

335bhak said:


> I refuse to beleive that! C'mon it generally takes a top tier Infiniti to even match the level of prestige that an entry level BMW can provide in the way of quality and performance. Let alone beign better than a 5 series.
> My family has always owned german cars- primarily BMW and MBZ. I couldn't see myself driving anything else ever. Prior to this car I had a 1990 3 series convertible. People would always tellme how nice my car was. No one knew it was 16 years old. My cousin (and roommate for a while) bought a brand new 2004 (in 2004 mind you) s2000. People would still say that my car looked better or was nicer than his (I really kept it up).


That is possibly the most brand whore statement I have ever heard and I am used to Porsche people. To say that BMW is the ultimate status car is to prove everything that is wrong with BMW. Most people came to BMW initially because they were one of the few cars that blended sport with utility and were honestly driver's cars. Since there are so many whores now out there ready and willing to pay for the status instead of the sport BMW can release M3s that weigh 3600 pounds and make a "lightweight" 1 series that has a standard sunroof and itself weighs over 3200.

The worst are the brand whores that can barely afford their leased stripper BMWs and think of it as a status mobile. People who buy leatherette 335i for one.

Go look at a Japanese luxury car with open eyes instead of through BMW tinted glasses. They are quickly improving, bringing out rear wheel platforms (hyundai) and are undercutting German pricing by thousands. The badge whores will still pick a BMW but when the Hyundai is nearly dynamically identical and costs 10K less would most people?

I'm done with BMW and selling my lead sled (335) right after winter.


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## lubbock57 (Aug 19, 2007)

CVT, have a look for yourself. The BMW Canada website is www.bmw.ca (pretty clever huh).


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## cvt (Mar 16, 2007)

lubbock57 said:


> CVT, have a look for yourself. The BMW Canada website is www.bmw.ca (pretty clever huh).


wow...a base 335i coupe starts at $51.6K? that's a $10,800 difference on a US dealership.
on another note infiniti doesn't do any better...for a base coupe it lists out at $47350...lol!

what are you kanucks smokin' up there? lol.

so...what is your price range? i can't imagine what your gas/liter is like...LOL.


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## PhilipWOT (Feb 26, 2006)

mullman said:


> +1
> 
> Enjoy your Datsun!
> 
> ...


I've driven the piss out of both cars on more than a few occasions, and I work for a BMW/Mini dealership and I will still tell you- go for the GTI! No competition- although the Mini is no slouch by a long-shot, the GTI excels past it in every measurable aspect of automotive performance including the most important one; _fun factor_. My .02


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

PhilipWOT said:


> I've driven the piss out of both cars on more than a few occasions, and I work for a BMW/Mini dealership and I will still tell you- go for the GTI! No competition- although the Mini is no slouch by a long-shot, the GTI excels past it in every measurable aspect of automotive performance including the most important one; _fun factor_. My .02


My cousin in Munich says the same thing.


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## lubbock57 (Aug 19, 2007)

CVT, most pricing in Canada for the other manufacturers somewhat mirrors what BMW's pricing is like. BMW is definitely on the high side however.

Here's another web site that will provide you absolute price differences on all makes.............www.ataleoft***rices.com

Canadians are hopping mad that the prices have not closed with the US since the exchange rate has been closing for about 5 years. We don't expect pricing to be the same, but the corny reasons that the manufacturers provide are an insult to our intelligence. Thus the mad rush to buy in the US and the bad tempers when people find out that the vehicle they just bought has had new restrictions place don it by our incapable government, and now inadmissable.

It's only really just starting too.


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

now you guys know the extent we are getting screwed by BMW Canada...and Mercedes and Audi and just about everyone else.

The equipment differences they always talk about is different bumpers on some vehicles (cost about the same to manufacture or max $500), larger winshield resevoir ($5?), standard engine imobilzer ($50). The rest of what BMW Canada calls " different market realities" is secret code for "we've always screwed Canadians, and they've always taken it up the *ss, so why can't we continue to do so?" I would accept up to a 10% price differnce for the smaller market and the economies of scale, but 20-30% is just price gouging. What's worse is on options, for example on a 328xi, BMW charges $1275 for a steptronic in the U.S. and $1600 in Canada, that's almost 30% !!!

From www.ataleoftwo*prices.com (remove asterix)

Canadian Trims Canada MSRP US Trims US MSRP Price Markup 
5 Series 528i $59,800 5 Series 528i Sedan $44,300 36.57% 
5 Series 528xi $62,400 5 Series 528xi Sedan $46,500 35.76% 
5 Series 535i $68,800 5 Series 535i Sedan $49,400 40.9% 
5 Series 535xi $71,400 5 Series 535xi Sedan $51,600 39.99% 
5 Series 535xiT $73,500 5 Series 535xiT $54,000 37.7% 
5 Series 550i $82,800 5 Series 550i Sedan $58,500 43.19%

That's why a baller in Canada is a much bigger baller than a baller in the U.S. It takes 40% or more money to play in the same leagues. A 760Li is $174,500 in Canada, but a measly $122,600 in the U.S. That $50k difference is enough to buy a Z4 M Roadster for the weekend.


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## 335bhak (Nov 6, 2007)

Needagarage said:


> That is possibly the most brand whore statement I have ever heard and I am used to Porsche people. To say that BMW is the ultimate status car is to prove everything that is wrong with BMW. Most people came to BMW initially because they were one of the few cars that blended sport with utility and were honestly driver's cars. Since there are so many whores now out there ready and willing to pay for the status instead of the sport BMW can release M3s that weigh 3600 pounds and make a "lightweight" 1 series that has a standard sunroof and itself weighs over 3200.
> 
> The worst are the brand whores that can barely afford their leased stripper BMWs and think of it as a status mobile. People who buy leatherette 335i for one.
> 
> ...


I'll gladly give my money to the BMW execs and sales staff that are "pimping" me out as their "badge whore" LOL as long as they keep producing vehicles unmatched in their driving experience. It is well worth the money. And when I am drving my stripper 3 series (financed not leased by the way) with leatherette in order to save some cash until my new house is finished being built, just know that I could have bought one of the fully loaded competitors and chose not to.


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## wolfen (Jul 2, 2007)

mullman said:


> You are completely missing my point.
> 
> 'If I wanted a dependable Japanese car...' is not the same as 'If I was in the market for an enthusiasts machine'.
> Trust me the Odyssey is what it is...kid hauler.
> ...


No way dude. I got your point true blue and i agree. That's why i said your post was understated, meaning not voiced strongly enough to illustrate as to how i feel about it also.


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## cvt (Mar 16, 2007)

I'm sure someone in this board can help you out...

have you looked into buying CPO? i mean it seems to be the best option for now....

i'm sure there are a few canadian BMW owners here that can share their purchasing experiences...and also maybe give hints on rebates or close to invoice pricing....


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## lubbock57 (Aug 19, 2007)

BMW Canada appears in no way interested in dropping their pricing to reflect the current status of exchange rates. They have adjusted their lease and finance rates and claim "huge" savings but the reality is they are still 40% higher than the US prices.

A CPO is an option but one still faces the ridiculous hurdles at the border to import a BMW or the insane used car prices BMW still is asking for a CPO.


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## No12 (Sep 27, 2007)

lubbock57 said:


> Much to my dismay I am removing BMW from my next car list. Had my eyes on the 550 for a few months and have been working with the local dealer for a few months now.
> 
> But living in Canada, one cannot ignore the pricing disparities that exist between the US market and here. As such, I have been looking longingly at the very reasonable prices all over the US for low mileage 2007/2008 models.
> 
> ...


You do what you need to do, lubbock57, but it's not quite as simple as you make it sound. I have just purchased a 535xi MSport in Canada, and it's no where near as simple as comparing the MSRPs Base of Cdn vs US cars. They are contented and optioned differently. The Cdn car is still more expensive at par dollars, but not 40% more. Also, the US buying really only works if you are a cash buyer. If you have 2 trades, as I did, you cannot US buy. Also you cannot lease on US side.

I agree BMW could move some on pricing (or BMW USA should raise prices as it's the US buck that is weak against many currancies, not just Cdn buck) but it is a complex issue. The residual and resale values of existing cars comes into play also, for if you had 6 months bought/leased a car, you would take a hit on value if Cdn prices decline. As I understand it, BMW prices in the US are the cheapest in the world (right?) and Cdn prices are also relatively cheap, compared to Australia, Europe and the Far East. We only get to complain because we live next to the US and the border is semi-porous.

Not saying BMW Canada couldn't do more, but it is complex and your reaction seems not to consider all the factors. :dunno:


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## lubbock57 (Aug 19, 2007)

I merely pointed out the base cost for each line, naturally prices and percent differences will change with options. You are right however, a loaded out M optioned 535xi will not be 40% higher.

I am planning on being a cash buyer so my issues with the purchase are pretty simple.....who's cheapest. I won't dicker over a gap of 3 grand, or maybe even 5, but not 15+. I want to buy locally but I really struggle with the $$ gap.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

I'm leaving BMW for other reasons, namely:

1. Fat
2. Overpriced
3. Horrible recent designs
4. Steering going numb
5. Quality headed south (my last BMW was a lemon)

The marque is nothing like it used to be. Shame.


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

Usually in situations like this entrepreneurs see $$$. They go to the USA, buy a bunch of new BMWs for cash, take them to Canada, do whatever is necessary to make them legal and sell them for a profit. Seems like a great idea. Is this happening ? and if not why ?


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## cvt (Mar 16, 2007)

mclaren said:


> Usually in situations like this entrepreneurs see $$$. They go to the USA, buy a bunch of new BMWs for cash, take them to Canada, do whatever is necessary to make them legal and sell them for a profit. Seems like a great idea. Is this happening ? and if not why ?


i think that's the thing...no one can go across the border and purchse a US BMW and take it back to Canada...


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## iperk222 (Sep 24, 2007)

pilotman said:


> I really wanted to buy some brand name prescription drugs from Canada at Canadian prices which are much lower than US prices, but its illegal.
> 
> Thus, I am gonig to boycott buying prescription drugs in the US until they lower their prices like the Canadians.
> 
> ...


Great point !!:thumbup: Let's all cut off our noses too.


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## 325ic a beer (Oct 21, 2005)

*AAA hahahahah!!*

See ya later duuuuuude!
AAA hahahahahahahahaha!!


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## 645ilubu (Oct 22, 2004)

93LE said:


> You guys are mostly missing the point, it's not the car, it's not the dealer, but BMW Canada.
> 
> We can buy a TV for a little cheaper in the U.S. (maybe 10%) but BMW pricing (30% higher) is outrageous, and worse they put all these barriers up to prevent you from crossing the border with one. I can simply order a TV from a US retailer and get it shipped acrros the border, pay out federal and provincial sakles tax, and duty (~5%) and be done with it.
> 
> ...


+1

Companies can outsource our jobs to pay cheaper rates, but how dare he find a better priced car in another country.


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## vinnieg24 (Dec 3, 2007)

pilotman said:


> I really wanted to buy some brand name prescription drugs from Canada at Canadian prices which are much lower than US prices, but its illegal.
> 
> Thus, I am gonig to boycott buying prescription drugs in the US until they lower their prices like the Canadians.
> 
> ...


Amen on prescription prices...someone watched SICKO haha


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## cme4atstdrv (Dec 6, 2007)

One question......why pay cash for a vehicle in the first place??

As a Canadian you have the opportunity to benefit from incredible interest rates as well as the benefit of gap protection and conserving the opportunity cost on your capital. 


Imagine this scenario.....you buy ( cash ) a US BMW and import it to Canada.
You no longer receive the complementary maintenance for the 4 years.
You have no gap protection in the event there is an accident on your shiny new BMW ( rendering it nearly unsellable )
You local dealer has no sense of loyalty towards you...A BIG ONE.
Your purchase has done nothing for your local economy.
You have to jump through hoop after hoop to import your US car in the first place.
You have a slip at the US dealer and break your arm....and unfirtunately you didn't purchase traveller's insurance prior to heading south to buy the car.....

YOU PAID CASH FOR A DEPRECIATING ASSETT.....not such a brilliant investment.

etc etc.....

BMW Canada is making no more money now on product than it did when the dollar was 80 cents....in fact recent programs to combat migrating buyers have run up expenses by MILLIONS of dollars. Seems to be working from my point of view.


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## Beemerup (Mar 30, 2007)

:neener:

1. Fat
2. Overpriced
3. Horrible recent designs
4. Steering going numb
5. Quality headed south (my last BMW was a lemon)

The marque is nothing like it used to be. Shame.[/QUOTE]


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## cme4atstdrv (Dec 6, 2007)

> Thus, I am gonig to boycott buying prescription drugs in the US until they lower their prices like the Canadians.


you think Canada is cheap for drugs....you should try Cuba.


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

cme4atstdrv said:


> One question......why pay cash for a vehicle in the first place??
> 
> As a Canadian you have the opportunity to benefit from incredible interest rates as well as the benefit of gap protection and conserving the opportunity cost on your capital.
> 
> ...


Wow, you are a price gouging Canadian dealer's best friend. I'll give you credit that I have to jump through a few hoops (One day's worth of work dealing with RIV/Border/Inspection) and that I'll lose the 4 years maintenance (8 oil changes are worth maybe $800).

I also don't care if BMW is making more or less than before. They are just not getting an extra $15,000 from me on an X5.

As for paying cash. I'd rather pay cash for a depreciating asset and investing the $15,000 I save, rather financing/leasing my depreciating asset and payng INTEREST on an DEPRECIATING ASSET. However, I can always buy one through a line of credit at 5% and pay 2% more than BMW financing Which is about $3k. I guess I'll only come out $12,000 ahead if I finance myself.

Most insurance policies have riders for new car toal loss.

My dealer is no less 'loyal' even though in the past, I have brought them a car for servicing which I bought from another dealer 4 hours away. I guess when they get to charge their full labour rate, either with myself or BMW warranty paying, they really don't care. I still get service loaners. But then they still get to make $95 / hour so no hard feelings there.

The $15,000 I decide to spend on other goods and services, when I don't mail order from the U.S., does plenty to stimulate the local economy. It's not like the money I save magically gets deposited into a savings account in a U.S. bank until I retire....hmmm....maybe that's not a bad idea either...

Let me guess, you're an employee of BMW Canada or at a Canadian auto dealer?


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

If you think the price in Canada is high, try buying a BMW in China.

I think it has a lot to do with the import tax issue. In addition, Canadians get much better health care coverage and low cost for college education, so maybe the saved up cash can go towards the purchase of a more expensive vehicle. Canada is not USA, and there's no reason for the car companies to behave as if it were.


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## Michael Schott (Dec 7, 2007)

kurichan said:


> I'm leaving BMW for other reasons, namely:
> 
> 1. Fat
> 2. Overpriced
> ...


Sorry you feel this way but as a former Cadillac CTS owner my 328i is leagues ahead of the Caddy and all of its competition in every category you list. I've also owned an Audi A4 and I prefer the steering of the Bimmer.

Sorry you had issues with your last one but you are overreacting.

Thanks, Mike.


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## ChrisTO (Jan 24, 2002)

+1 well said!

cme4atstdrv - you definitely sound like an employee of either a dealer or BMW Canada. I too was thinking of going south to purchase a BMW till the recent changes stated in RIV. Your are arguments are weak at best. And I don't understand the comment about supporting the local economy. The product is not even made in CANADA! You mean to tell me everything you own is made locally? Give me a break. Guaranteed the very food you eat is not even grown locally. WEAK!

Because of that I'm with the OP - I'm no longer considering a BMW at all. I'm walking with my wallet. No one deserves my money and definitely not now after they purposely erected these superficial barriers to protect their dealer network. I'm with the OP on this. I wish more Canadians thought this way as well.

In fact I'm going a step further and just purchasing used from now on. None of the other auto makers are any better. Honda is just as bad - some of their cars are made right here in my backyard, yet I can't import them back into the very country they were manufactured!



93LE said:


> Wow, you are a price gouging Canadian dealer's best friend. I'll give you credit that I have to jump through a few hoops (One day's worth of work dealing with RIV/Border/Inspection) and that I'll lose the 4 years maintenance (8 oil changes are worth maybe $800).
> 
> I also don't care if BMW is making more or less than before. They are just not getting an extra $15,000 from me on an X5.
> 
> ...


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## cme4atstdrv (Dec 6, 2007)

> But then they still get to make $95 / hour so no hard feelings there


I wonder what portion of that $95 goes towards paying for the gas, insurance, wear and tear on the loaner. I also wonder how much of that $95 goes towards paying the up to 
5 different staff members that will be responsible for that car while it comes in through the business. I wouldn't imagine that some person making $10 an hour would care much about your BMW. I would hope there aren't eager young teenagers working in the back.....unless of course they're the rare person that truly loves the cars and the brand enough to over look a low wage.



> 4 years maintenance (8 oil changes are worth maybe $800).


that isn't the program. 4 years or 80,000 km maintenance included. The oil change interval necessary is measured by the CBS system. I put 24000km and 14 months before mine asked for a switch. There are other fluids involved as well.



> Most insurance policies have riders for new car total loss


I'm not referring to "total" loss. Don't you think an insurance company would try to limit the number of "write off"s? 


> In fact I'm going a step further and just purchasing used from now on.


great idea! certified BMW's cover you up to 160,000kms or 6 years from 1st registration.



> BMW's may drive very nicely, but their interiors are near the bottom of the class of their competitors.


please, elaborate on that statement so that we can better understand the criticism?



> They are just not getting an extra $15,000 from me on an X5


I was unaware, can you possibly run the numbers for us?


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