# Just gave dealer all 10's on survey - feel dirty about it



## Peregrinus (Sep 16, 2006)

I wish we could be more honest about this. Frankly, some of the items they did perform to "10" but others - particularly with regards to negotiating the deal were like pulling teeth and a lot of hiding the ball and other dealer BS that pisses me off. I'd love to be more honest about this crap but I understand that affects dealer compensation and in turn, probably how I'll be treated on the next deal.


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

Are they the only dealer in town? If not, have them earn your next business. There is no reason why you should bend over backward to please them.


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

I thought all feedback totally anonymously and privately. I would say what I really think. 

I never give feedback on BMW service yet but my last car with Nissan the dealership bribed me with full tank of gas for all 10. 
I had about 7 filled up.... niceeee!

I think feedback is super important to them somehow.
But looking back is a little shady...Lol


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## chasz17 (May 4, 2007)

I am a car dealer (not BMW). If we don't stop this, the crappy service will continue. How else can a dealer improve, if no one knows the facts? If the dealership is good, why not take the time to speak with a senior manager to provide helpful comments? With a constructive and honest evaluation, the good dealerships will continue to improve.


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## edwardtt10022 (Jul 30, 2010)

Peregrinus said:


> ..probably how I'll be treated on the next deal.


You shouldn't worry about the 'next' deal, they should - you got the money.


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## Ty Vil (Dec 19, 2002)

First thing I let clients know about the survey is "if we've failed to meet your expectations in any way, my management here will be happy to hear about it, the survey is not the place to express that."

"If you can't give us all 10's on the survey - please don't do it" is my general follow up to my opening statement.

I go on to explain how the survey is for BMW and not for us here at the Center.


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## cryptyk (Oct 14, 2010)

That makes no sense to me at all. I have to believe that the survey was put in place to find out how various people were performing, and where BMW can improve. 
If everyone receives 10s across the board, there is no differentiation and the entire cost of running the survey is lost without any valuable output.

If you screw a customer, or you're incompetent, you don't deserve a 10 just because it affects your pay. If you forget something important, like signing your customer up for BMW assist LIKE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO, you don't get a 10. Sorry.
If you don't check that the detail guys did a good job, you don't get a 10.

10 means that I would recommend you to my mother the next time she buys a car. 

The survey isn't there to validate you only in the cases where you do a good job. It's a tool for the customer to use to tell BMW about the job you're REALLY doing. 
"Don't take it unless you're going to give me all 10s?"
I'm happy to work with you and your manager on any problems I have, but I'm not going to help you game the system that's in place to reward those who go above and beyond.

/Rant


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## Peregrinus (Sep 16, 2006)

Interesting responses, and not what I was expecting. Normally I've heard that unless you had a truly bad experience at a BMW dealer, that it was bad form to not give them a perfect score. . .I may have to reevaluate how I fill out these surveys.

They send one for each service too. . .my SA never fails to mention how she likes perfect scores (she's good and deserves them, so no problem) but I wonder how well she would treat me if she didn't earn and I didn't give a perfect score one time.


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

Ty Vil said:


> First thing I let clients know about the survey is "if we've failed to meet your expectations in any way, my management here will be happy to hear about it, the survey is not the place to express that."
> 
> "If you can't give us all 10's on the survey - please don't do it" is my general follow up to my opening statement.
> 
> I go on to explain how the survey is for BMW and not for us here at the Center.


This is typically what I get from BMW Center CAs and SAs, and I can tell you it makes a really bad first impression.

If the survey isn't the place to express my true experience with my CA/SA, then what's the survey for?

I have no problem with giving 10s to CAs/SAs that deserve it, but they have earn it.

Truly great CAs/SAs I've met don't even mention the survey and let their exceptional service speak for itself.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Ty Vil said:


> First thing I let clients know about the survey is "if we've failed to meet your expectations in any way, my management here will be happy to hear about it, the survey is not the place to express that."
> 
> "If you can't give us all 10's on the survey - please don't do it" is my general follow up to my opening statement.
> 
> I go on to explain how the survey is for BMW and not for us here at the Center.


Yup, I've heard that.

My EXPECTATION is that I will not have to use threats about feedback, nor should I need to speak to a manager to get good service!

Screwing up on a loaner car, dumping a cup if coffee during a 'test drive'... all are things that cannot "be fixed".

Dealing with a c-word from finance who makes me wait for an hour, then sounds SO put out when I want copies.... yeah, lets not put that in the survey.

I assume the survey is visible to the dealer, but don't care.


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## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

GiaGiaJa said:


> I thought all feedback totally anonymously and privately. I would say what I really think.
> 
> I never give feedback on BMW service yet but my last car with Nissan the dealership bribed me with full tank of gas for all 10.
> I had about 7 filled up.... niceeee!
> ...


Not anonymous or private... If you feel like you have to deal with this dealer in the future, just give them the 10s.. It's just not worth it, otherwise... Life is short..


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## tno77 (Apr 28, 2009)

Dealer didn't even detail the inside of my car before I took it home. It was getting late in the day (I had been waiting around 5 hours) and I needed to go home that day so I just took it. But the car was sitting in their bay all day waiting so I'm not sure what happened. 

I'm not sure if I should reflect this on the survey.

My CA told me that if they dont get all 10s, it affects their lease rates for the cars they get personally, and I'm sure it affects bonuses and other financial considerations


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

tno77 said:


> Dealer didn't even detail the inside of my car before I took it home. It was getting late in the day (I had been waiting around 5 hours) and I needed to go home that day so I just took it. But the car was sitting in their bay all day waiting so I'm not sure what happened.
> 
> I'm not sure if I should reflect this on the survey.
> 
> My CA told me that if they dont get all 10s, it affects their lease rates for the cars they get personally, and I'm sure it affects bonuses and other financial considerations


The survey is in place to motivate dealers to go above and beyond the customers expectation, why should we give them 10s when they don't deserve it. Some SA's and CA's need to concentrate on giving exceptional service rather than remind you how less then 10's affect their paychecks.:tsk:


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## [email protected] (Feb 18, 2010)

tno77 said:


> Dealer didn't even detail the inside of my car before I took it home. It was getting late in the day (I had been waiting around 5 hours) and I needed to go home that day so I just took it. But the car was sitting in their bay all day waiting so I'm not sure what happened.
> 
> I'm not sure if I should reflect this on the survey.
> 
> My CA told me that if they dont get all 10s, it affects their lease rates for the cars they get personally, and I'm sure it affects bonuses and other financial considerations


It really does affect us financially. I assure you guys whether it is shady or not that if you talk to a manager and not kill the survey it will get your furthur with your problems.

Example A: Your interior isn't detailed. You get mad, but instead of contacting the manager, you use the survey to express your frusturation. You tank the survey, your client advisor looses his bonus (and if its bad enough one survey can affect the entire years performance bonus), the manager's CSI bonus gets docked, and nobody wants to talk to you regarding your problem after the fact anyways because you've pissed everybody off. You know end up making everybody mad, costing people money, and you are still unhappy because you will never get a detailed interior.

Example B: Your interior isn't detailed. You get mad, but instead of bombing the survey because you know how financially tied everybody too it is, you call the General Sales Manager and say "I have this survey sitting here, and I don't feel comfortable answering it the way the sales person asked me too because of how dirty my car was." In this situation, the GSM is now proactive in making sure you end up happy, so he picks up your car and gets it fully detailed (and it will be considering the GSM is involved), and delivers it back to you sparkling. You know give them a perfect survey, you have a fully detailed car, and everybody is happy and paid.

Whether you agree with the ethics or not, the simple truth is BMW makes our income tied to a survey which is extremely easy to give a bad score on.

Work with it or against it is all I can say friends.


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## Newmanium (May 9, 2007)

The only positive thing about it is that you can use it as a hostage in the event of something shady happening at the time of sale (e.g. a "mistake" in favor of the dealer found after signing, missing accessories that were supposed to be included). It's the only post-sales leverage a buyer gets.

I don't know why BMW bothers, it just measures how good the sales people are at manipulating the customers to give all 10s. Ticking off a dealer isn't very smart when you have to get service from them. If they actually were curious how the dealer is doing, make it anonymous.


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## German Expat (Sep 29, 2006)

This survey is as useless as it gets. But its wrong to use it against the dealer looking how one bad survey can effect pay.
I think BMW should seriously consider rethinking their survey process and create a process that allows you to rate somebody the way they deserve it.
Its just stupid grade inflation with not much meaningful feedback for BMW.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It really does affect us financially. I assure you guys whether it is shady or not that if you talk to a manager and not kill the survey it will get your furthur with your problems.
> 
> Example A: Your interior isn't detailed. You get mad, but instead of contacting the manager, you use the survey to express your frusturation. You tank the survey, your client advisor looses his bonus (and if its bad enough one survey can affect the entire years performance bonus), the manager's CSI bonus gets docked, and nobody wants to talk to you regarding your problem after the fact anyways because you've pissed everybody off. You know end up making everybody mad, costing people money, and you are still unhappy because you will never get a detailed interior.
> 
> ...


1. Assuming the prick GSM or GM actually takes calls from customers.
2. How will the GSM make up for 1 hour of my life waiting around for a Cword finance flunky because she wanted to take her 1 hour lunch? And because of that I hit rush hour traffic and it took an extra 45 minutes home (3 hr drive).
3. Then when I detailed it the next AM, if found a minute, tiny ding under the mirror. Contacted the SA, and he said "We really can't do anything on that since you left the lot". Cost me $75 for paintless dent. (He could have had it done for $25 when the guy came to the dealer the next time...)

So explain again about that survey?

I do not get a stiffy when people suck up to me and fawn over me and my car with fake care- My philosophy is: say it, fix it, do it...right...the first time. I don't want a 'future super duper detail' nor a 'free car pick up at my home'. I don't want hack detailers putting microscratches in my paint and covering them with liquid wipe on wax, I don't want shiny crap on my interior.... I don't want a BMW keychain, or an invite to a wine and cheese reception or a track day. (Honestly I'd rather get free use of a GT1 in the shop...)

Could you imaging how bad dealers would be if there wasn't a survey!!!


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## tschryver (Mar 11, 2003)

Ard,

I agree with you and the other posters that the survey is bogus and a silly instrument. It's a waste of time that does not measure what it sets out to measure. What Will (very generously) did as an insider was explain to us how best to use that tool in the toolbox to fix problems when they occur. No, it's not the best tool; it's not even a good tool. But that's a lot better than looking at the toolbox, wishing that there was a hammer in there instead of a wrench, and kicking the toolbox over out of spite and not fixing the problem. Probably extended that metaphor too far, but hopefully you see what I mean.

If you want to mount a campaign to BMWNA to eliminate this silly thing, consider me signee #1 on the petition. In the meantime, I appreciate the support of front-line people like Will who are far more impacted by its negative consequences than you or I.



ard said:


> 1. Assuming the prick GSM or GM actually takes calls from customers.
> 2. How will the GSM make up for 1 hour of my life waiting around for a Cword finance flunky because she wanted to take her 1 hour lunch? And because of that I hit rush hour traffic and it took an extra 45 minutes home (3 hr drive).
> 3. Then when I detailed it the next AM, if found a minute, tiny ding under the mirror. Contacted the SA, and he said "We really can't do anything on that since you left the lot". Cost me $75 for paintless dent. (He could have had it done for $25 when the guy came to the dealer the next time...)
> 
> ...


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Just to clarify, I don't think it is bogus and silly.

Wil thinks it is bogus and silly and therefore seeks to neutralize it by marginalizing it, and having customers not honestly complete the servey.

I guess I do a disservice if my comments come off as an attack on Wil. So I do apologize for that.

A

PS To be honest, I might rethink the 'survey' as it pertains to SERVICE. More of a quid pro quo going on there with return visits. Although for some reason I haven't received a survey for service ever on the X5.... hmmm.


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## flowbmw (Aug 31, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> It really does affect us financially. I assure you guys whether it is shady or not that if you talk to a manager and not kill the survey it will get your furthur with your problems.
> 
> Example A: Your interior isn't detailed. You get mad, but instead of contacting the manager, you use the survey to express your frusturation. You tank the survey, your client advisor looses his bonus (and if its bad enough one survey can affect the entire years performance bonus), the manager's CSI bonus gets docked, and nobody wants to talk to you regarding your problem after the fact anyways because you've pissed everybody off. You know end up making everybody mad, costing people money, and you are still unhappy because you will never get a detailed interior.
> 
> ...


:thumbup: :stupid:
You said everything I wanted to say and didn't Will.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2010)

Clarification part 2:

You are all right in the opinion that good or bad service deserves to be judged accordingly. And I will also agree that it is bad form to say that a 9 is as bad as a 1. Its not. As a matter of fact our dealership no longer pays bonuses based on score, but focuses more on overall satisfaction and absence of an "issue" (no test drive, no follow up, etc.). I agree with this new amendment because it gives a client the opportunity to answer honestly and doesn't penalize a CA/SA because someone believes we can "improve" somewhere. I guess my point is somewhat selfish because it flat out sucks when someone says that their buying experience was excellent and they would definitely buy another car from you or they would recommend their friends and family but gives you a 6 based on 'Time spent going over their features' when they were intent on getting out of the dealership to get home or to get something to eat or start driving their new car or whatever... especially when you call the next day to ask how things are going and the response is "great!" Listen ,your CA/SA should be your BMW advocate and if there is trully an issue or a mistake that needs to be amended then we should try to work it out together because we have a common goal: To send you down the road in your very own Ultimate Driving Machine.
I know, that last part was a really cheesy PR statement (but hey) I'm proud to be a BMW CA and like being appreciated (and paid) for a job well done. 
Can't we all just get along...


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

It's obvious To me the BMWNA is not serious about giving outstanding customer service the survey is flawed the customers know it the Dealers know it and BMWNA knows it. I can't blame the CA and SA and everyone in between to work the system, I would do the same if I had to work in a flawed system myself. First off the survey should be anonymous and each part of the sales experience should be rated separately but equally. The CA should not be penalized because the finance guy was an idiot and vise versa. Pressuring the customer to give all 10's does a disservice to all involved and gives BMWNA a false sense of achievement that is not accurate.


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## smhoer (May 23, 2007)

These surveys are a no-win for anyone to fill out correctly. I generally give all 10s (used to be 5s) when purchasing since I chose to do business with the dealer. If I got a deal I was comfortable with then I should be satisfied. I give my verbal feedback on points I do not like. With this incentive structure neither BMWNA or the dealers are really getting useful feedback. I agree with earlier comments that often the CA can deserve high marks while the (less than customer friendly) finance person does not. Love those hidden finance gems you find at signing that the finance person is embarrassed you figured out and the CA is embarrassed he couldn't warn you about. Not always true but more often than not. 

When my company creates customer surveys we are sure to design them for useful feedback of each point in a process. Otherwise they are not work the effort to create.


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## cryptyk (Oct 14, 2010)

smhoer said:


> Love those hidden finance gems you find at signing that the finance person is embarrassed you figured out and the CA is embarrassed he couldn't warn you about.


As a naive car buyer, I'm curious what you mean? What are some examples?


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## Newmanium (May 9, 2007)

cryptyk said:


> As a naive car buyer, I'm curious what you mean? What are some examples?


For me, there had been a "miscommunication" to the finance people, and the price was a few thousand more than expected. Also, the MF wasn't adjusted to the new, base MF as promised by the CA.

The finance guy, instead of assuming that they had made a mistake - instantly assumes that I haven't factored something in (started asking if I'd forgot things like floor mats or tire locks - floor mats were specifically included in deal, and tire locks weren't even on car, basically the guy was BSing). Had to push back and get him to talk it over with the CA, finally got it fixed.

CA was apologetic and assured it was a miscommunication and a purely innocent mistake... sure is hard to believe when this happens SOOO often. However, I overlooked on the survey because they did agree to up my trade value the week before. Quid pro quo.

I don't understand what the deal is with CAs promising loaners if you give them good scores. I brought my car into the dealership to get some rattles fixed a few weeks later, and my CA didn't even know - I got a loaner, but all that was handled by the service people. Do people actually continue to use their CA for handling... service?


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## jdubois (Jul 12, 2010)

Newmanium said:


> Do people actually continue to use their CA for handling... service?


I have attempted in the past to leverage the CA when I wasn't getting what I wanted from the SA. It mostly got me lots of assurances but not much result.


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## smhoer (May 23, 2007)

Hidden gems like MF adders or extra closing fees that were not part of the deal but showed up on the signing paperwork. I will say that my experience with a board sponsor for my last ED (Kudos to Adrian) was my first experience ever where there was total up front communication on the deal terms and no surprises. Just great service. My first ever lease in the 80s I got taken to the cleaners by the CA. After that I have been armed with detailed leasing knowledge and, other than Adrian, have always had to "correct" the finance paperwork before signing.


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## quackbury (Dec 17, 2005)

cryptyk said:


> As a naive car buyer, I'm curious what you mean? What are some examples?


How about showing up for the signing and having a lease contract put in front of you that matches to the penny the deal you agreed to ..... except that the contract is for 10,000 miles per year instead of the 12,000 you and the CA agreed to.

Just an innocent mistake? Really??????????

In the old days, the F&I guys tried to jam you into Rusty Jones, credit life insurance and other scams. Most are gone now, though you do hear some times of some schmuck who got sold Lojack on top of his BMW Assist Stolen Vehicle Tracking System. Pretty expensive belt-and-suspenders.

EDIT: Almost forgot "nitrogen filled tires" and Scotchguard carpet protection. I keep waiting for the day when a "finance manager" will try to get you to buy K-Y before they bend you over.


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

quackbury said:


> How about showing up for the signing and having a lease contract put in front of you that matches to the penny the deal you agreed to ..... except that the contract is for 10,000 miles per year instead of the 12,000 you and the CA agreed to.
> 
> Just an innocent mistake? Really??????????
> 
> ...


I guess I've been spoiled because my CA makes sure all the finance numbers are correct even before I get to take a peek at the papers to sign. If there is even a penny of discrepancy, he takes his time with the finance manager to correct before I come in to sign the papers.

By the way, don't forget:

1. Teflon coat for the paint
2. Theft-deterrent ID-etched glasses
3. Overpriced warranty/service extensions and supplements


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## tno77 (Apr 28, 2009)

When our 535's battery was dying every 2 days the CA was helpful in fielding our questions, but he was ultimately powerless in getting the cars repair expedited or even approved. I had to deal with the Service manager/secretary, who was incredibly obstructive and actually overruled the CA on replacing the faulty parts. Finally after complains to BMWNA and the dealership owner, we went over her head and got the parts replaced. 

I guess my point is, the Service and Sales depts are pretty separate...anything he promises you is not worth a whole lot. He might be able to help you out in your next purchase or lease...


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

kjboyd said:


> I was told flat out when I bought my X3 that he expected 5s and in return he'd make sure I got good service and a loaner each time, otherwise I was on my own.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using BimmerApp


If my CA told my that I would look for another CA or dealer.
cheers
vern


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## schlagle (Sep 19, 2010)

I was emailed by the sales manager shortly after my vehicle went into production. He told me he wanted to hear about my experience, good or bad, and to contact him directly with any concerns. Now I know why. I wish I would have read this thread before I emailed a reply. I think my response was good, but knowing how powerful the survey can be would have helped a bit.


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## chrisk03 (Jun 30, 2010)

Ha, yet to hear from the Sales Manager on my ordered car and doubt I will, so kudos to your dealer. Also, I've been buying cars for years and not once used the sales guy to help with service issues...there are Service Mgrs for a reason. I've gotten similar line's of "I'll be there for you even AFTER the sale"...yada, yada, but honestly have NEVER used the sales guy/gal in that way. They might be able to get you in touch with a good service tech or help push things along more quickly, but that's a huge "might". So far, my CA is not earning all 10's, 5's, whatever the top number is. We'll see...


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## Daneandjake1 (Sep 12, 2010)

Peregrinus said:


> I wish we could be more honest about this. Frankly, some of the items they did perform to "10" but others - particularly with regards to negotiating the deal were like pulling teeth and a lot of hiding the ball and other dealer BS that pisses me off. I'd love to be more honest about this crap but I understand that affects dealer compensation and in turn, probably how I'll be treated on the next deal.


I'm sorry but if they didn't deserve all 10's why the he'll give them 10's??? Giving them their true scores makes them work on the areas that need improving. Giving them 10's means there was no room for improvement.

Why are people sooooo scared to give their honest opinions anymore??


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## ex-x-drive (Mar 28, 2009)

ard said:


> Yup, I've heard that.
> 
> My EXPECTATION is that I will not have to use threats about feedback, nor should I need to speak to a manager to get good service!
> 
> ...


Speaking of loaner cars, (from a dealer's perspective), is it right to reduce a survey score because dealer does not provide a BMW loaner? If so, why? Also is it right to reduce score due to a loaner issue when the servicing dealer did not sell you the car?


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

Daneandjake1 said:


> I'm sorry but if they didn't deserve all 10's why the he'll give them 10's??? Giving them their true scores makes them work on the areas that need improving. Giving them 10's means there was no room for improvement.
> 
> Why are people sooooo scared to give their honest opinions anymore??


First of all the survey isn't anonymous and its been posted here and other places that customers that gave less than 10's have had to suffer through poor service experiences and nasty call backs from sales staff after the fact. The survey is a sham and nobody in BMWNA or Dealerships wants to own up to it. Dealerships work the survey to their advantage to maximize their earnings and the customer is the one that suffers in the end.

BMW builds the ultimate driving machine, how about they concentrate on the Ultimate sales experience right along with that and I guarantee their ultimate sales goals will be met much sooner rather than later.


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## sneakerhead (Aug 30, 2010)

Elias said:


> First of all the survey isn't anonymous and its been posted here and other places that customers that gave less than 10's have had to suffer through poor service experiences and nasty call backs from sales staff after the fact. The survey is a sham and nobody in BMWNA or Dealerships wants to own up to it. Dealerships work the survey to their advantage to maximize their earnings and the customer is the one that suffers in the end.
> 
> BMW builds the ultimate driving machine, how about they concentrate on the Ultimate sales experience right along with that and I guarantee their ultimate sales goals will be met much sooner rather than later.


I totally agree with this quote and the one previously. If a dealer can't handle the truth about what's going on at their own lot, then they shouldn't even send these things out - that's why there's so much weight given to these things. ACCOUNTABILITY - you can't just take the good, you have to take the bad as well.

My experience in dealing with my purchase of a CPO 2007 650i from Sterling BMW in Newport Beach, CA was not the greatest - overall I gave them a 2. I had the worst sales advisor, who walked off to take a call after being paged on the PA about 2 minutes prior to me driving off. I was pointing out a few minor dings/issues that I needed to have them take care of on a follow-up, he took off and that is when things ultimately went sour and I knew I had to report this.

In addition to this, I was referred to the dealer through a broker and after I took delivery, my broker called to follow up with him and he basically told the broker (who was a distant family friend) that I didn't want him (the broker) to know I purchased the car - pretty much called me a liar. That was the straw the broke the camel's back - he disrespects me as a customer by walking away prior to drive off and then proceeds to portray me as a liar. Disrespectful and unprofessional was all I had to say. Needless to say, I stated that having this guy on their team was doing a disservice to any current and potential buyers. I think they got the hint and I feel I've been treated very fairly ever since the incident.

Just my $0.02.


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## Daneandjake1 (Sep 12, 2010)

I've given honest opinions at dealers before and never had them give me ****ty service or anything like that.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

The survey is absolutely worthless - that's why I don't waste my time responding any more.


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## pfbz (Oct 17, 2010)

IMHO, the point of the surveys is to incent the dealership to give superb service to *all the customers all the time* ... and to make it a priority to double/triple check every step of the process to ensure that satisfaction is achieved.

Using the example above about a poor interior detail, I'd counter that it shouldn't be the customer calling the dealer if there is something that made them unhappy, but the dealership calling the customer every time to ensure everything was perfect.

Now if the dealers and employees have an issue with how BMW pays or penalizes them based on the survey, take that up with BMW NA, but don't ask customers to only give 10's.


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## pfbz (Oct 17, 2010)

Elias said:


> First of all the survey isn't anonymous and its been posted here and other places that customers that gave less than 10's have had to suffer through poor service experiences and nasty call backs from sales staff after the fact. The survey is a sham and nobody in BMWNA or Dealerships wants to own up to it. Dealerships work the survey to their advantage to maximize their earnings and the customer is the one that suffers in the end.
> 
> BMW builds the ultimate driving machine, how about they concentrate on the Ultimate sales experience right along with that and I guarantee their ultimate sales goals will be met much sooner rather than later.


You are probably correct here...

Ironic how a BMW NA's effort to "improve" the customer experience might result in dealerships bullying customers into great survey scores, resulting in a customer perception the exact opposite of the desired goal.

Perhaps Jim O'Donnell, CEO of BMWNA, needs to do an episode of _Undercover Boss_... :rofl:


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## dogdoc97 (Dec 9, 2005)

*when I do not fill it out I get a call*

like when the one part of the experience WAS NOT my SA's fault BUT he tells me if I slam the survey he gets in trouble, no matter whose fault it was; ALL the dealers from my Suabru to SAAB give us the same BS, if you cannot give me all 5 stars my review suffers; so the WHOLE process is slanted..........why don't you juts ask folks to fill it out and let teh chips fall , dogdoc


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## DaleJ (Oct 25, 2010)

Not to take a position on either side of this (yet - still haven't gotten my first survey request) - this sounds a lot like "Net Promoter Scores".

The way this has been explained to me is that you get a score from your customers on a scale of 1 - 10.
9 and 10 are positive scores, 7 and 8 are neutral and anything below that is negative.

The reasoning in the weighting of the score (in my non-marketing layman's terms) is that anyone happy enough to give you a 9 or 10 is also a positive advertisement for you - they are bringing in friends and family.

The 7 and 8 are, well, they aren't horribly unhappy but they won't go out of their way to promote you to associates.

6 and below, those are the ones that will basically either not help or worst case, give you a bad name in references. 


From a customer perspective it looks like an all-or-nothing scoring method, and I suspect that part of the scoring is intentionally setting that expectations with customers (however, I have no proof of that...).

If you or your product sucks, it's easy to see some big negative numbers quickly with this method.


Keep in mind this is all just speculation....


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## Daedalus34r (Jun 30, 2007)

pfbz said:


> IMHO, the point of the surveys is to incent the dealership to give superb service to *all the customers all the time* ... and to make it a priority to double/triple check every step of the process to ensure that satisfaction is achieved.
> 
> Using the example above about a poor interior detail, I'd counter that it shouldn't be the customer calling the dealer if there is something that made them unhappy, but the dealership calling the customer every time to ensure everything was perfect.
> 
> Now if the dealers and employees have an issue with how BMW pays or penalizes them based on the survey, take that up with BMW NA, but don't ask customers to only give 10's.


best response I've read so far that explains the customers dilemma.

an informed customer should not have to use the survey as a negotiation tool to get things done correctly the first time.

A dealer should never explain to a customer on how to fill out the survey, if they are doing that then the dealer is not confident in their customer service and should focus on that instead.

story:
-------
My bmw is out of warranty but i went to the dealer for an alignment. I get a random SA. Along with the alignment, i ask for him to check the brake lines, i thought their was air in the lines (needed to be bled).

I get the car back and find on the service report that the alignment was taken care of, but instead of brake pedal the SA wrote down "check gas pedal for play/movement"

I promptly gave a 5/10 , or 50% for successfully handling 1 out of 2 requests. I don't have time to bargain with the SA to look at the car again. I'm busy, we're all busy. I lose time from work juggling to get to and from the dealership.

Now the sad part is that i wonder if i'm 'black listed' for giving an accurate yet failing survey score. If so, i know there'll be a special place in hell for those folks :angel:


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## sjd980002 (Jun 16, 2008)

The suggestion floating around here that a customer could suffer poor service in the future due to providing less than 10s on a survey is absurd. Beyond ridiculous.

I'll be taking delivery of my fourth Bimmer in the next few weeks (and rating all 10s as in the past) but there would be hell to pay if I experienced "retribution" based solely on my responses to a survey; it doesn't represent anything close to full recourse for a customer. I can't believe some customers actually feel bullied into completing a survey a certain way.


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