# Did all ///M's always come with quad exhausts?



## dhabes (Jan 22, 2004)

> 88 M3 was the best, well ahead of its time.


couldnt agree more


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

The rear of the E30 M3 roof is visibly different from the normal E30 roof - IIRC, they swept it down more so that the wing would actually do something?


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> The rear of the E30 M3 roof is visibly different from the normal E30 roof - IIRC, they swept it down more so that the wing would actually do something?


The roof panel (metal) is the same. The angle of the rear window is different, leading to a different rear window glass, different trunk lid, and different C pillar metal.


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## chonch (Jul 6, 2003)

BlackChrome said:


> I believe only the e46 M3 have 'quad' exhaust.


Yep, absolutely right. I owned a 1997-8 M3 and it only had two exhaust tips on the left hand side....

Only the newer model M's have quad exhaust...unless of course there is an aftermarket kit there...


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> I thought that the E30 M3 doors were different than the regular E30 3er? OK, just checked the ETK, the M3 doors are 41 51 1 965 019/020 and the 325i doors, same year and month are 41 51 1 106 931/932. So the M3 does have different doors.
> 
> Yes, the C pillars are different, as is the rear window and the trunk lid to have the rear window flatter for better aerodynamics.
> 
> And when the E46 M3 came out, I distinctly remember an article that said only the center roof panel was interchangeable with the E46 3er.


The trunk lid appears to be interchangeable--that's why the only body panel difference between new E46 M3s (post 3/03) and old E46 M3s is the different trunk lid (which the new ones share with the new E46 coupes).

I think even the door skins are different, because of the extra flare in the lower rear fender, but I'd have to look to be sure of this.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

JST said:


> The trunk lid appears to be interchangeable--that's why the only body panel difference between new E46 M3s (post 3/03) and old E46 M3s is the different trunk lid (which the new ones share with the new E46 coupes).
> 
> I think even the door skins are different, because of the extra flare in the lower rear fender, but I'd have to look to be sure of this.


You are correct, the turnk lid is the same between the M3 and 330.

And according to the ETK the doors are the same part number also. Hmmm? I guess the press was wrong.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> And according to the ETK the doors are the same part number also. Hmmm? I guess the press was wrong.


maybe they meant the fuel-filler door


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## Lance Racing (Jan 28, 2003)

Real M3s were homologated for racing  I'm assuming everyone knows what a homologation car is. 

For the E30 M3, only the hood is the same. The doors could be interchanged, but the regular E30 doors have trim, the E30 M3 doors do not have the trim mid-height and are flush to the lower crease. Line the two cars up side by side, then it is really clear. BMW put the E30 M3 in the wind tunnel and sculpted it before realesing it to tear up the tracks in European racing.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Driving back from Rehoboth Beach last night, I saw a beautiful E39 M5 with angel eyes and DE tags. I noticed it didn't have side gills. So not all Ms had side gills either?

It _did _ have a quad exhaust.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Blast from the past, this thread. 

Anyway, side gills are not an "M Thing," at least not until the M3. Aside from the MZ3, I can't think of any M vehicles from the E30 M3 on to the E39 M5 that have side gills. They are, however, a "BMW Thing" of sorts, particularly among the older pre-E30 cars. The 3.0 comes to mind as a great and beautiful example.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Jetfire said:


> Blast from the past, this thread.
> 
> Anyway, side gills are not an "M Thing," at least not until the M3. Aside from the MZ3, I can't think of any M vehicles from the E30 M3 on to the E39 M5 that have side gills. They are, however, a "BMW Thing" of sorts, particularly among the older pre-E30 cars. The 3.0 comes to mind as a great and beautiful example.


Oh, interesting. It does seem that they're now an M thing, though, if not previously.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> Blast from the past, this thread.
> 
> Anyway, side gills are not an "M Thing," at least not until the M3. Aside from the MZ3, I can't think of any M vehicles from the E30 M3 on to the E39 M5 that have side gills.


so shouldn't you have said, "at least not until the MZ3"?

:stickpoke


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> Blast from the past, this thread.
> 
> Anyway, side gills are not an "M Thing," at least not until the M3. Aside from the MZ3, I can't think of any M vehicles from the E30 M3 on to the E39 M5 that have side gills. They are, however, a "BMW Thing" of sorts, particularly among the older pre-E30 cars. The 3.0 comes to mind as a great and beautiful example.


In five years' time we'll have people asking "so is it true that all M cars have had V-configuration engines of no less than eight cylinders in number?" 

The first road-going car developed by M had six cylinders, twelve valves, a variable number of exhaust pipes (but only ever one rear silencer), and NO side gills. Side gills have been part of the M story for about seven years out of the last thirty-two.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

andy_thomas said:


> In five years' time we'll have people asking "so is it true that all M cars have had V-configuration engines of no less than eight cylinders in number?"
> 
> The first road-going car developed by M had six cylinders, twelve valves, a variable number of exhaust pipes (but only ever one rear silencer), and NO side gills. Side gills have been part of the M story for about seven years out of the last thirty-two.


 Did the M1 really have "just" a 12-valve engine? Interesting.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Nope 24 valves. The engine later showed up in the M6 and M5.

Gills and kidneys started back with the REAL 328. Continued until the Neue Klasse and the 4 doors. Returned for the Z3 and Z8. And the E46 M3 has gills like the 3.0CSL


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> Nope 24 valves. The engine later showed up in the M6 and M5.


Yep. Even says so right on the engine:


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Nope 24 valves. The engine later showed up in the M6 and M5.
> 
> Gills and kidneys started back with the REAL 328. Continued until the Neue Klasse and the 4 doors. Returned for the Z3 and Z8. And the E46 M3 has gills like the 3.0CSL


You're all wrong. The first road-going M car was (depending on your POV) the E12 M535i, or E9 CSL. Of course any fule kno that the M1, M5 and M635CSi had 24 valves - but they weren't the first .

I take your point about the side grilles though - I'd forgotten about the CSL's.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

andy_thomas said:


> You're all wrong. The first road-going M car was (depending on your POV) the E12 M535i, or E9 CSL. Of course any fule kno that the M1, M5 and M635CSi had 24 valves - but they weren't the first .
> 
> I take your point about the side grilles though - I'd forgotten about the CSL's.


I didn't say they were th efirst, I just said that the engine in the M1 had 24 valves, and that engine was the basis for LATER M5s and M6s.

And actually the M1 and the E12 M5 both came out in 1979. And most sources state the M1 was the first car out of BMW Motorsport Division.

However, some purists point out that the 3.0 CSL and the 2002 Turbo were both out of the M stable, just not M designated.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> I didn't say they were th efirst, I just said that the engine in the M1 had 24 valves, and that engine was the basis for LATER M5s and M6s.
> 
> And actually the M1 and the E12 M5 both came out in 1979. And most sources state the M1 was the first car out of BMW Motorsport Division.
> 
> However, some purists point out that the 3.0 CSL and the 2002 Turbo were both out of the M stable, just not M designated.


I get your point about the M1 engine. I was merely poking gentle fun at the historical revisionists who think an M it isn't a real M unless it has four exhaust pipes 

The M1 was first sold as a road car in 1980 - although my reference is an English author and he may have been talking about M1s sold in the UK (all of which were LHD anyway). Whether the 1979-production M535i was a 1980 model year car I don't know, though. Either way, as you point out it's probably moot - the original CSL and 2002 turbo were clearly Motorsport-bred cars...


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> I get your point about the M1 engine. I was merely poking gentle fun at the historical revisionists who think an M it isn't a real M unless it has four exhaust pipes
> 
> The M1 was first sold as a road car in 1980 - although my reference is an English author and he may have been talking about M1s sold in the UK (all of which were LHD anyway). Whether the 1979-production M535i was a 1980 model year car I don't know, though. Either way, as you point out it's probably moot - the original CSL and 2002 turbo were clearly Motorsport-bred cars...


You forgot the side gills!


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

swchang said:


> You forgot the side gills!


Oh bugger, the side gills... that's, let's see, on a 1937 328, wait, no they came out on the 3/19, and I'm sure the Dixi had vents, or was that a loose hood...

Fuggit. Real BMWs have only one headlight per side


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

andy_thomas said:


> Oh bugger, the side gills... that's, let's see, on a 1937 328, wait, no they came out on the 3/19, and I'm sure the Dixi had vents, or was that a loose hood...
> 
> Fuggit. Real BMWs have only one headlight per side


 Real BMWs have "Made in East Germany" stamped on the wheels and body parts.


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