# Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci



## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

I went to the Susan Komen event this morning and drove the following:
1) 2002 330Ci with Step, PP, SP, heated seats and the 18inch wheel option

Compared to my 2001 330Ci - my steering was a little bit heavier. FYI my car is retrofitted.
The only other differences I really noticed were the DBW reacted quicker which I've noticed on all 2002's Ive driven in the past. That slight delay is now gone and the 18 inch wheels are louder on the highway and have a little harder ride.

I am happy I finally got to drive a car with the 18" wheel option. I know now there is not one reason I could think of too get them. I noticed no difference in the handling, the ride on the highway was a lot louder (both my car and this one had Michelin pilots) and they do not look nearly as nice as the M68's 

2) 2002 330Cic - step, PP, SP, Heated seats - This car definitely should be an Automatic. 
First let's start with the power compared to a Ci. The only place I really noticed the difference in power was off the line. Where my car leaps off the line, the Cic kind of takes off with some ease. It doesn't jump !! But once you get going, I really did not notice any other difference as far as power. Also in the Cic I did not notice ANY difference in the reaction of the DBW like I have in other 2002's, maybe it was due to the extra weight this car was carrying or something :dunno: 

Call me crazy but the handling is just as good though I wasn't on an Auto x course or anything. In the twisties the car handled excellently.

With the top up this car is as solid as can be. Besides for a little extra hissing of windnoise coming from where the front and the back side window meet, the car was at least 95% as quiet. 

My only complain besides for that windnoise was that the power top is pretty slow going up and down . . .

One other thing, steering feel was a little heavier in the 02 Cic then the 02 Ci.

This goes to show you that BMW is NEVER consistent on there steering feel . . . 
Out of the total of 5 2002 330's I've driven (this includes the loaners I had)
3 of them were heavier then the other 2 . . .:dunno: 

Overall I got back into my car and was happy with it . . .


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

But, it sure was fun with the top down, eh? What do you mean, it SHOULD be an automatic?


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

johnlew said:


> *But, it sure was fun with the top down, eh? What do you mean, it SHOULD be an automatic? *


It was fun with both the top up or down . . . it was an excellent car and I would love to have one someday.

Unlike a lot of others here, I sincerely feel that some cars should be Manual's (like an M3 or a Z3) and some should be Automatic.

The 330Cic is a very Sporty & comfortable convertible but it's not a Sports car. I think the Automatic teamed up with it is the perfect match.

BTW I look at my Coupe the same way but it has a slight edge more towards the sporty side. Meanwhile I think it Coupe is on the borderline . . . it could be a Manual or a Auto.

Now Porsche's . . . stick all the way :thumbup:

BTW- do you get that slight hissing sound from inbetween the side windows ?


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> It was fun with both the top up or down . . . it was an excellent car and I would love to have one someday.
> 
> ...


You should try one sometime with the hardtop on, just great.

The Step does team up beautifully.

I don't seem to have a hissing, mines tight, but as a caveat, I do where hearing aids and they automatically adjust for unwanted noise. Also, I don't have the windows and top up much.


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## Josh (PA) (Jan 21, 2002)

Alan-
Sounds like you had the same impressions I had. The 3Cic is like no other convertible I've been in, there are many fewer tradeoffs with having the soft top (as in cowl shake, lack of useability, rigidity, visibility, etc, etc.). It would make a great daily driver, imho.


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

Josh (PA) said:


> *Alan-
> Sounds like you had the same impressions I had. The 3Cic is like no other convertible I've been in, there are many fewer tradeoffs with having the soft top (as in cowl shake, lack of useability, rigidity, visibility, etc, etc.). It would make a great daily driver, imho. *


It is all of the above and the most rigid four seat convertible I've been in. More fun to drive than my SLK roadster.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> It was fun with both the top up or down . . . it was an excellent car and I would love to have one someday.
> 
> ...


I dunno, Alan. Just because the cabrio doesn't have the same performance of the coupe or sedan, doesn't mean that it wouldn't benefit fromt he enhanced performance, control, and fun of a manual transmission. IMO, I couldn't stand driving an automatic no matter what car it is :dunno:

btw, the 330Cic is no slouch. I passed some cars that should be faster, e.g. E36 M3s. 2 of them in every session. Of course, the 330 got left behind in the straights pretty badly


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## rawskyb (Apr 14, 2002)

Hmm, interesting review on the cic. I've never driven a ci or even an i, so I don't have a comparison of the steering. It seems to be very similar to the 99 M3 that I drove a while back. I did drive a 2002 Saab Viggen convertible about a month ago though, and the thing is a POS compared to the cic. I hit a turn hard and thought it was going to roll. The steering and suspension combined with the FWD make it nearly impossible to handle under heavy acceleration from a standstill. 

As for the time to raise/lower the top, I timed my cic the other day and it took just over 20 seconds. I guess it can seem slow sometimes, but I don't really notice anymore. The nicest part is the completely automatic design - no latches or locks to mess with.

In regard to the manual/auto, we opted for the auto since my wife has to deal with a very long commute often in 0-10mph traffic. She wasn't interested in messing with a stick any longer after doing that for over a year in our last car. We've both been driving sticks from the day we got our licenses. I do also like being able to kick back with the top down and not worry about shifting, though I occasionally miss the control. The step is a substitute, but it's not a stick - you obviously don't get the throttle control that you do with an actual clutch. I absolutely agree that it is a good match for this car, but if I ever get an M3 (or maybe an M6), it will be a manual (if they still make them...)

I also have not noticed any hissing between the windows, but I have only driven with the top up maybe 5-10% of the time thus far in my past 2 months. I was driving last night in the rain and noticed very little noise even at 85MPH.


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

I know that track! Which club were you running with?


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

rawskyb said:


> *Hmm, interesting review on the cic. I've never driven a ci or even an i, so I don't have a comparison of the steering. It seems to be very similar to the 99 M3 that I drove a while back. I did drive a 2002 Saab Viggen convertible about a month ago though, and the thing is a POS compared to the cic. I hit a turn hard and thought it was going to roll. The steering and suspension combined with the FWD make it nearly impossible to handle under heavy acceleration from a standstill.
> *


Just to clarify the steering difference. I am sure it had nothing to do with the car being a Cic vs a Ci.

It's more of an issue of the variances from car to car. I've driven 330i's that are heavier steering then other 330i's (both MY2002)

I've driven Cic's that had lighter steering then 'i's or Ci's

It seems that BMW is not consistant with their steering feel ?

Is it THAT big of a difference ?!?! Not really, only to those of us here who seem to have massive OCD issues  

BTW I include myself in that last statement


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## cwa (Mar 8, 2002)

And a question. I have a 330cic and have not been able to find a place I can take a drivers school with it. All I've seen require a rollbar for convertibles. How does one get track time with the convertible? Retrofitting a rollbar on this vehicle is not trivial...

-Charles


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> I dunno, Alan. Just because the cabrio doesn't have the same performance of the coupe or sedan, doesn't mean that it wouldn't benefit fromt he enhanced performance, control, and fun of a manual transmission. IMO, I couldn't stand driving an automatic no matter what car it is :dunno:
> 
> btw, the 330Cic is no slouch. I passed some cars that should be faster, e.g. E36 M3s. 2 of them in every session. Of course, the 330 got left behind in the straights pretty badly
> *


Nate you are probably right . . . I shouldn't jump to that conclusion without at the least driving one first with a manual.

Do you find the 330Cic as quick feeling as your 328Ci or does it feel more sluggish ?

Does the Cic's extra Horsepwoer make it feel lighter on it's feet then the 328 ?


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

cwa said:


> *And a question. I have a 330cic and have not been able to find a place I can take a drivers school with it. All I've seen require a rollbar for convertibles. How does one get track time with the convertible? Retrofitting a rollbar on this vehicle is not trivial...
> 
> -Charles *


At least around here, the Porsche Club will let convertibles out in the beginner run groups with only the factory pop-up bars for protection. You have to run with the top up these days, though, OR use arm restraints. The other options besides an aftermarket rollbar, again under local rules, is the factory hardtop. But I've no idea if BMW even *has* a factory hardtop for the 3-series...


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *I know that track! Which club were you running with? *


That was June 3rd, The Driver's Edge


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *
> 
> At least around here, the Porsche Club will let convertibles out in the beginner run groups with only the factory pop-up bars for protection. You have to run with the top up these days, though, OR use arm restraints. The other options besides an aftermarket rollbar, again under local rules, is the factory hardtop. But I've no idea if BMW even *has* a factory hardtop for the 3-series... *


Yes, they do have a factory hard top.

TDE allows any cabrio to run in any group. The red (instructor) and yellow, advanced groups, have to have a roll bar, at least pop-up, though.

Check your local club.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Nate you are probably right . . . I shouldn't jump to that conclusion without at the least driving one first with a manual.
> 
> ...


They are pretty similar, it seems. I think my car is faster though. Horsepower to weight is similar though, although with intake and chip, my car has about as much torque as a 3.0L, so with ~400 lbs less weight it should be faster 

The 330 certainly "sounds" faster


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Yes, they do have a factory hard top.
> 
> ...


Oh, that reminds me -- a convertible E46 M3 spun offtrack July 13 at a PCA DE, and came this close (||) to rolling the car. He went off driver's left (to the inside) of turn 7 @ TWS, and what saved him.. the right front wheel SNAPPED.

It was impressive, half the spokes broke clean off where they attached to the wheel hub, the other half broke off the rim. Then the force was transferred to the rotor, so that broke off the rotor hat as well. The instructor's take was that the wheel letting go absorbed enough energy that the car didn't roll. He'd already taken a 'duck & cover' position waiting for the earth to rise up overhead...

I'm still waiting on a friend to shoot some pictures of that wheel over to me.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *
> 
> Oh, that reminds me -- a convertible E46 M3 spun offtrack July 13 at a PCA DE, and came this close (||) to rolling the car. He went off driver's left (to the inside) of turn 7 @ TWS, and what saved him.. the right front wheel SNAPPED.
> 
> ...


Someone told me when I at TWS that he had come up on an E46 cabrio that rolled a few times on the Nurburgring. Said they were going very fast when they rolled, faster than the car was designed to roll at. The passenger compartment was intact, driver walked away with his helmet on, but the passenger was killed by flying debris w/o a helmet, a muffler to be exact. Cars are pretty safe, but I don't think that I would want to drive a convertable as fast as an M3 without a fixed cage. I was only driving the cabrio because the car I was driving, an E39 M5, started eating the clutch, slipping VERY badly in my first session.

btw, a Ferrari F355 went off in front of me in turn 1. He was a bit ahead, and we saw the dust cloud as we were approaching the turn, all of a sudden, the Ferari pops its nose to the top of the hill and gets back on behind me. I passed a 355


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

wow, turn 1 is a scary place to go off!


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Yes, they do have a factory hard top.
> 
> *


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *wow, turn 1 is a scary place to go off! *


Yea, no kidding. I didn't talk to him, but the car looked ok. He drove it off, they waved the checker after that.

Maybe just an alignment 

btw, what kind of 911 do you have?


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

It's a 1996, base coupe. I just posted some pictures because I'm giddy what an orbital polisher can do to revive swirled paint -- if you want an eyeball:

http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004404


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *It's a 1996, base coupe. I just posted some pictures because I'm giddy what an orbital polisher can do to revive swirled paint -- if you want an eyeball:
> 
> http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004404 *


You won't be disappointed with a PC Orbital. Best price, I've seen, at www.coastaltool.com


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

Yup, that's where I got mine. Friend saw my car last night, asked me to come over & teach him how to do that to his 356 Carrera & Allard


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## E46 in Philly (Mar 5, 2002)

Alan F said:


> 2) 2002 330Cic - step, PP, SP, Heated seats - This car definitely should be an Automatic.
> First let's start with the power compared to a Ci. The only place I really noticed the difference in power was off the line. Where my car leaps off the line, the Cic kind of takes off with some ease. It doesn't jump !! But once you get going, I really did not notice any other difference as far as power. Also in the Cic I did not notice ANY difference in the reaction of the DBW like I have in other 2002's, maybe it was due to the extra weight this car was carrying or something :dunno:
> 
> Call me crazy but the handling is just as good though I wasn't on an Auto x course or anything. In the twisties the car handled excellently.
> ...


I enjoyed your review of these cars but I have to say I think your comment that "This car definitely should be an Automatic" is silly at best. You describe the car as having handling on par with the coupe, and acceleration just a step behind, and then say the car should "definitely" have a slushbox? Huh?

The justification that the cab is "not a Sports car" is a case of pointless semantics. Many would argue that no 3 series is a sports car - so should no 3 series come with stick? Or perhaps only the M3 should come with a stick? The fact is a manual transmission provides more performance and more control, regardless of the car's configuration.

I've seen a similar argument made that it makes no sense to pay more for a 330cic rather than getting a 325cic, since the convertible is heavier and slower than the coupe or sedan. This argument suggests that since you are sacrificing performance, why not just get the 325cic? That viewpoint uses the same faulty logic as yours. Just because someone is willing to give up a certain degree of performance in favor of the sublime feeling of top-down driving, doesn't mean they want to forsake performance alltogether. Ideally, I'd like the 330cic to perform just like the 330ci - but that's not the case, and the difference is small enough that I'll make the trade. By your logic and the logic of some others this means I should now lose interest in rowing the gears, and in acceleration. Ummmm, no.


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## Josh (PA) (Jan 21, 2002)

rhenriksen said:


> *It's a 1996, base coupe. I just posted some pictures because I'm giddy what an orbital polisher can do to revive swirled paint -- if you want an eyeball:
> 
> http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004404 *


She's Be-u-ti-FUL. What color is that?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *It's a 1996, base coupe. I just posted some pictures because I'm giddy what an orbital polisher can do to revive swirled paint -- if you want an eyeball:
> 
> http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004404 *


Rollcage, eh?

Looks great! :thumbup:


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

There's always the convertible M3.


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## E46 in Philly (Mar 5, 2002)

rhenriksen said:


> *It's a 1996, base coupe. I just posted some pictures because I'm giddy what an orbital polisher can do to revive swirled paint -- if you want an eyeball:
> 
> http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004404 *


Wow, that's a beatiful 911.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



E46 in Philly said:


> *
> 
> I enjoyed your review of these cars but I have to say I think your comment that "This car definitely should be an Automatic" is silly at best. You describe the car as having handling on par with the coupe, and acceleration just a step behind, and then say the car should "definitely" have a slushbox? Huh?
> *


You are absolutely right . . .

Nate pointed out a similiar disagreement with that sentence and I had agreed earlier in this thread . . .

I take it back . . . I've never driven a E46 Convertible with a manual so I think I should have before jumping to conclusions . . .


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## E46 in Philly (Mar 5, 2002)

johnlew said:


> *There's always the convertible M3. *


$$$$$$$ :bawling:

I'm in the investment business, which unfortunately makes the M3 convertible a bad idea for me at the moment. In the meantime, I'm not suffering too much with the 330


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



Alan F said:


> *
> 
> You are absolutely right . . .
> 
> ...


I think you were just swept away with the smoothness and serenity of the moment with the CIC.


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## E46 in Philly (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



Alan F said:


> *
> 
> You are absolutely right . . .
> 
> ...


No sweat Alan. Were any M cars available at the event? If so, would it be tough to get a turn in one?


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



johnlew said:


> *
> 
> I think you were just swept away with the smoothness and serenity of the moment with the CIC. *


lol, very true John . . . very true !!!


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



E46 in Philly said:


> *
> 
> No sweat Alan. Were any M cars available at the event? If so, would it be tough to get a turn in one? *


Unfortunately there were no M cars. I haven't seen one at this event in 2 years which is too bad. I remember when I got to dirve the M Coupe (not the M3 but the Z3 M Coupe)

The only other car I got to take for a drive was the 3.0 X5. It was a nice truck but a little too sporty for an SUV.

I don't know about you guys but when I'm out on the weekend with my wife and kids, I'm, not looking for that next set of twisties to handle.

It's more like I'm looking for smooth sailing with some attributes of a driver's car to it which is why our Honda Odyssey fits the bill pretty well . . . at least until I can one day trade it in for a sporty sedan.


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## IndyMike (Dec 19, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *2) 2002 330Cic - step, PP, SP, Heated seats -
> Besides for a little extra hissing of windnoise coming from where the front and the back side window meet, the car was at least 95% as quiet. *


I have experienced this 'hissing' noise, but it is only when the pavement is moist, so I'm wondering if there was some precipitation on the ground when you drove it and if it had the ContiSports.

It is a little annoying, but not a biggie.



> One other thing, steering feel was a little heavier in the 02 Cic then the 02 Ci.
> 
> This goes to show you that BMW is NEVER consistent on there steering feel . . .


I completely agree with this. I've got a Feb '01 build, which should make my steering the original 'new' overboosted rack. Well, I must have driven a half dozen '01's with the new rack, so I definitely can tell you that there is a substantial difference between my steering and these early 01's.

It's a little disconcerting to hear that there still remains an inconsistency in the steering feel, although it is good to know that it's much heavier than any of the non-retrofitted '01's. Of course, most people don't know, nor would they be able to sense the difference, so in this case it's true that ignorance is bliss.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, Alan. :thumbup:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



IndyMike said:


> *
> 
> I have experienced this 'hissing' noise, but it is only when the pavement is moist, so I'm wondering if there was some precipitation on the ground when you drove it and if it had the ContiSports.
> 
> ...


The car had Michelin Pilots and the ground was as dry as could be.

I know the hiss you are talking about because I hear that also on my Coupe when it rains also

This was a little different . . .

As far as the steering differences . . . it is a real annoying factor for us OCD patients . . . even beore my car had the retrofit and before BMW changed any cars in production, mine was considerably heavier then many other early 01 330's that I've driven . . . (my car is a 6/00 production, one of the first 330's out)

One other thing that was a little annoying in the Convertible was the rear seatbelt was flapping around and making noise and I couldn't get it to stop.

Not that I took that much time playing around with it . . . .

I am guessing if I really took the time (and it was my car  ) I would be able to position it to stop flapping.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

bickle the rear belts in?


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



Alan F said:


> *
> 
> One other thing that was a little annoying in the Convertible was the rear seatbelt was flapping around and making noise and I couldn't get it to stop.
> 
> *


There are clips right above pass through to the trunk to hold the seatbelts from flapping. In the pic below they are not being used unfortunately. They're behind the belts.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Just drove a 2002 330Cic & a 330Ci - something compared to my 2001 330Ci*



johnlew said:


> *
> 
> There are clips right above pass through to the trunk to hold the seatbelts from flapping. In the pic below they are not being used unfortunately. They're behind the belts.
> *


Gotta love BMW for coming up with such a simple solution !!


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