# Monza 2003 Discussion ***SPOILERS***



## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*WARNING: SPOILERS*














...So far (36 laps in), it's been a freaking close race. MS is still in front but JPM has been hounding him all day long. Will Montoya find his opening and take MS for the lead?

The chicane right after the start was awesome. A real nail-biter!


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Well now it looks like MS will take the win on this one. JPM is too far behind to make a difference, barring any accidents. Dang...I would've loved to see a Michelin-shod car win today. But MS's lead keeps increasing with just a few laps to go. They're both comfortably ahead of Rubens.

As far as the driver's championship goes, this would put MS three points ahead of JPM with two races to go. The constructor's championship isn't totally lost without Ralf, but BMW's 8-point lead is certainly gone for now.

The Grand Prix is still a close race, for sure. But BMW and JPM have their work cut out for them.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> Will Montoya find his opening and take MS for the lead?


NO !!


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> NO !!


 :lmao:

JPM put up one hell of a fight. MS's lead was well under a second until the two of them started to run into traffic, at which point it looks like JPM backed off with just a few laps to go and the lead increasing to over two seconds. JPM wasn't holding anything back, either -- the Williams car just was that hair's-width less potent than the Ferrari today. If JPM had stayed out just one more lap before pitting during the first round, or if he had waited for MS to go in first during the second, the results may well have been reversed. What a race!

One of the announcers over here on the Speed Network was complaining that even with MS's hard-fought victory, his lead in the points only increases by two points. The announcer was suggesting that last year's system, which would have bumped MS's lead to five, would have been better. Nah, not if you ask me.  Maybe the announcer is just another one of Brawn's b*tches. :rofl:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

After the first pit stop, I thought JPM was going to catch MS (he was only 0.9 secs behind). I haven't checked the times and speeds yet, but I think Ferrari's top speed was faster today.

What I have also noticed that how brutal they were using the curbs at the turns. I have watched some slow-motion pictures, it's pretty scary.

BTW, do you think that someone should teach Ross Brown how to shave ?  The guy is looking like a burglar


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Another loss to the F word. As with Hungary, the start was particularly important. If the Williamses could get off the line faster, it might be different, especially since they take the competition well elsewhere on the track. Oh, well, there's always next time.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

One other thought -- Gene was great today! I guess those test drivers are actually quite good at going around a track. Not only was his qual time good, he kept it for the duration of the race. And it wasn't because he was holding up traffic;he built an impressive lead over the guy behind him.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

*Reply to thread: Monza 2003 Discussion*

I see there is not much of a discussion today... 

Well, it was a rather boring race for a Monza, but Schumi won it in decisive manner, makes the last 2 races more exciting.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

because Michael kicked ass today.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> because Michael kicked ass today.


He sure did, he now has 69 wins, 50 with Ferrari!!! :yikes:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Kudos to the red cars for getting their act together again. It's too bad Ralf wasn't able to go. I think a four car mix at the front might have made for more of a scramble in and out of the pits and perhaps an opportunity for BMW-Williams to use a bit more fuel strategey. Looks like they missed it by just a lap or two on that first stint. If it just could have been a couple laps longer. 

They need both cars running strong now to keep the constructors lead and JPM might need Ralf as a separator in front of Michael in one or both of the races remaining to get the title. With no room for error left on either side it's very exciting now.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Topaz330xi said:


> Kudos to the red cars for getting their act together again. It's too bad Ralf wasn't able to go. I think a four car mix at the front might have made for more of a scramble in and out of the pits and perhaps an opportunity for BMW-Williams to use a bit more fuel strategey. Looks like they missed it by just a lap or two on that first stint. If it just could have been a couple laps longer.
> 
> They need both cars running strong now to keep the constructors lead and JPM might need Ralf as a separator in front of Michael in one or both of the races remaining to get the title. With no room for error left on either side it's very exciting now.


Actually, all things considered Marc Gene did a very good job. He came in 5th and earned some very valuable point despite being thrown into the race at the last minute and qualified just as well as Ralf would have. On Provisional Qualifying, I think Ralf would have qualified 5th?

It really is too bad that the lapped traffic ended up determining the race, I would've LOVED to see JPM try a few moves on Spoonface if and when he got close enough. Sounds like after a few incidents where he got stuck behind lapped traffic (and a lapped Sauber no less. You think Ferrari gave a directive to hold up BMW/Williams?:eeps: ) and realized that even if he got by, there isn't enough laps or time, nor pace to pass Spoonface so he just eased up and conserved his car.

At least it seems like the rule change and the new Michelin compound hasn't lost tremendous grounds to Bridgestone...Still a toss up as to who will WIN either championship, although if you asked me 3 weeks ago, I would'a told you that the Constructor's a lock on Williams.:dunno:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

The HACK said:


> Actually, all things considered Marc Gene did a very good job.


I'd agree there completely. Gene was great considering the circumstances. My comments were theorizing on having Ralf on the grid and in the race if he'd been 100%. After the major shunt he apparently just wasn't back to norm yet.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

I enjoyed the fight for the lead, but over all I thought the race was boring. Did anyone see any on track over-taking after the first lap? Oh well, at least it was over so quick I didn't nod off.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

The most exciting thing was Alonso going over -- er -- through -- the speed bumps, or "sleeping policemen" as the brits are wont to say.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Plaz said:


> The most exciting thing was Alonso going over -- er -- through -- the speed bumps, or "sleeping policemen" as the brits are wont to say.


 Even more impressive is that Alonso managed to score a point after his nightmare of a start. You can't ask for much more than that, Pizza the Hutt.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> Even more impressive is that Alonso managed to score a point after his nightmare of a start. You can't ask for much more than that, Pizza the Hutt.


True, that. As long as they don't take it away from him for that plate getting worn down.


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## FSelekler (Jan 15, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> :One of the announcers over here on the Speed Network was complaining that even with MS's hard-fought victory, his lead in the points only increases by two points. The announcer was suggesting that last year's system, which would have bumped MS's lead to five, would have been better. Nah, not if you ask me.  Maybe the announcer is just another one of Brawn's b*tches. :rofl:


That was David Hobbs, which I kind of agree. MS has 5 wins and JPM only 2, and MS has only 3 point lead. Something not totally right with that. I can appreciate the thought that consistency and reliability is equally important to winning a championship, but still something is just not right with the current picture, not to mention that Williams/BMW still has a 4-point lead to Ferrari.

I think the tire changes made a huge difference on Michelins. Bridgestone cars could not do any better than 4-5-6 places in the last few races, and now Ferrari is back on the front, which is believed to have the best overall package on the field.

I also agree with David Hobbs, when he said that all components of the cars are checked for specfications before and after the race, so why not tires? I do not think Michelin has any grounds in further discussing this. In my mind, the issue is similar to having in-spec front wing before the race, but increasing its downforce area during the race through expanding winglets with increased pressure. No one would like that would they, unless they have the technology  Same thing with tires, in my opinion. The photograph they showed was incredable, you can visually see how much wider Michelins were to Bridgestones.

Can't wait for USGP and Japan; going to be awesome. This is one of the best F1 season in a long time I think.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

FSelekler said:


> That was David Hobbs, which I kind of agree. MS has 5 wins and JPM only 2, and MS has only 3 point lead. Something not totally right with that. I can appreciate the thought that consistency and reliability is equally important to winning a championship, but still something is just not right with the current picture, not to mention that Williams/BMW still has a 4-point lead to Ferrari.
> 
> ...
> 
> Can't wait for USGP and Japan; going to be awesome. This is one of the best F1 season in a long time I think.


I disagree on the points. If you counted a race only by considering outright wins, then MS would be ahead by a comfortable margin...but the points spreads are now set up to also reward consistent finishers. Someone who comes in first one day, then sixth the next, will end up suffering in the points. Still, MS is in the lead, and he will have an easier time defending his position than JPM will in trying to challenge it.

But I do agree on the season in general. I think it's been excellent! I only wish I could go to Indy in two weeks.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

I like BMW/Williams' attitude after the race. NO ONE from any of the Michelin teams blame the tire or use that as an excuse for their "poor" showing at Monza. Everyone was up beat, especially Patrick Head and Juan Pablo Montoya, both of which *insist* that this is the last race Ferrari will win this season and that BMW/William's chances at both championships are stronger than ever.

Did anyone also catch the new wing Williams' is running? They're going with the new upturned profile wing that Renault and McLaren has been running for weeks...Suppose to create downforce while reducing drag. The chasis does look incredibly strong and I would have to believe the additional downforce required for USGP would help the Michelin tires out, since they do appear to "deform" under load and provide a fatter contact patch...At Monza they weren't running enough downforce for the Michelins to deform, and if theyrun more downforce they loose too much straight line speed.

Also sounds like Williams still have a lot of developmental work on hand, and the entire tire fiasco forced them to react and now that the tire debate has officially been put to bed by FIA, they can ramp up their testing work again.

The fight's not over yet boys.


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