# 323/325 328/330 etc. engine changes



## Optimus Prime (Nov 11, 2003)

After visiting the local autoshow, my boss and I got into a disagreement about the changes in the engine when BMW went from 323/325 and 328/330. He says the egnines remained identical, that BMW just changed the numbers. I disagree, but I need proof. Can you guys tell me what changed or point me in the right direction.

I'm pretty sure the engines went from being a 2.3 and 2.8 liter to 2.5 and 3.0. I also thought there was a bunch of other engine related changes, I just can't find a link anywhere and I was hoping to get an answer before I left work.

Thanks


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## Ben Chou (Dec 24, 2001)

hittinlike54 said:


> After visiting the local autoshow, my boss and I got into a disagreement about the changes in the engine when BMW went from 323/325 and 328/330. He says the egnines remained identical, that BMW just changed the numbers. I disagree, but I need proof. Can you guys tell me what changed or point me in the right direction.
> 
> I'm pretty sure the engines went from being a 2.3 and 2.8 liter to 2.5 and 3.0. I also thought there was a bunch of other engine related changes, I just can't find a link anywhere and I was hoping to get an answer before I left work.
> 
> Thanks


You are mostly correct. the 323 and 325 are the same displacements 2.5 liters, but the horsepower and torque characteristics are different. Part of the reason they renamed was to make things uniform since BMW names their cars after displacement. The 323 was the only one that didn't match up.

The 328 was a 2.8 liter and that did go up to a 3.0 liter with the 330.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

There was a little more to it than what Ben Chou related. Yes the 2.5L engines were essentially the same, but there was some marketing at work as well. 

In the E36 line the 325 was the top engine for the non ///M cars. When the E46 came on line for the '99 model year, they brought out new 2.5L and 2.8L engines. I was told that they changed the model names during that first iteration of the E46 in order to differintiate between the old/new engines and establish the new pecking order for teh E46 line. It wasn't untill the 3.0L came on line did they return to the 325 name.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

different engines

'99 to '00: m52tu 2.5L and 2.8L
'01 to present: m54 2.2L(???), 2.5L and 2.8L

re: 323 not 325. as others pointed out. it was done for marketing reasons. 2.5 is too close to 2.8 and marketing was afraid that there would not be enough distinction between the 2 to warrant the big price diff. so this is a similar reason why bmw did not name the 320 a 322. it would be too close to the 325.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

The 323 and 328 used 2.5L and 2.8L versions of the M52TU engine. The 325 and 330 use the next generation M54 engine. Aside from increased displacement which yielded increased torque, the big change, IMO, from the M52TU to the M54 was the incorporation of a fully drive-by-wire throttle. The M52TU used a semi-electronic/semi-mechanical throttle with a direct linkage to the engine. The M54 has a "black box" sender unit behind the gas pedal which communicated pedal position to the ECU which then translates that position into a command to open or close the throttle the requested amount. That electronic disconnect leads to throttle lag and a non-linear engine response to a given pedal position. Many enthusiasts HATED the earliest M54s for this reason. The system has improved, but, IMO, it still gives up feel to the earlier semi-mechanical set-up.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Desertnate said:


> There was a little more to it than what Ben Chou related. Yes the 2.5L engines were essentially the same, but there was some marketing at work as well.
> 
> In the E36 line the 325 was the top engine for the non ///M cars. When the E46 came on line for the '99 model year, they brought out new 2.5L and 2.8L engines. I was told that they changed the model names during that first iteration of the E46 in order to differintiate between the old/new engines and establish the new pecking order for teh E46 line. It wasn't untill the 3.0L came on line did they return to the 325 name.


The E36 was available in 2.5 litre form ("323i") from 1995 on. At that time, two well-known badges (323i and 328i) were revived and the 325i dropped.

The "pecking order" was retained from the 1995 E36 line-up (318i, 320i, 323i, 328i) to the 1998/9 E46 line-up. In 2000 the 323i got a power boost and an update to an accurate "325i" badge. The 330i, like the 328i, was badged accurately.

BMW still uses creative numbering. A 316i is a 1.8; a 318d or 318i is a 2.0; a 320i is a 2.2.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

andy_thomas said:


> The E36 was available in 2.5 litre form ("323i") from 1995 on. At that time, two well-known badges (323i and 328i) were revived and the 325i dropped.
> 
> The "pecking order" was retained from the 1995 E36 line-up (318i, 320i, 323i, 328i) to the 1998/9 E46 line-up. In 2000 the 323i got a power boost and an update to an accurate "325i" badge. The 330i, like the 328i, was badged accurately.
> 
> BMW still uses creative numbering. A 316i is a 1.8; a 318d or 318i is a 2.0; a 320i is a 2.2.


After a quick check of my history, it was a little different here in the US. Between '96 and '98 we only had the 318 and the 328 available for the E36 (I was wrong on that point). For '99 and '00 we had the 323/328. In 2001 we recieved the 325 and the 330. We are often a year behind and often have different numbering conventions.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

Desertnate said:


> After a quick check of my history, it was a little different here in the US. Between '96 and '98 we only had the 318 and the 328 available for the E36 (I was wrong on that point). For '99 and '00 we had the 323/328. In 2001 we recieved the 325 and the 330. We are often a year behind and often have different numbering conventions.


up here we had the e36 320i and the 323is 323iC


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

HW said:


> up here we had the e36 320i and the 323is 323iC


What killed me, was when I bought my E46 323i in '99, they were selling E36 328i coupes and E36 323i Convertables. Still to this day, it gives people fits when asking for aftermarket parts. When I get a puzzled look, I just tell them a '00 E46 rather than having to go through the long explination.


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

Didn't the redesign from the M52 to the M54 also add dual VANOS? Unless I'm mistaken, the M52 was intake only.

I wouldn't stake my life on it though


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

RKT BMR said:


> Didn't the redesign from the M52 to the M54 also add dual VANOS? Unless I'm mistaken, the M52 was intake only.
> 
> I wouldn't stake my life on it though


I can't speak for the M52 in its E36 iterations, but my '99 with the M52 has VANOS.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2004)

RKT BMR said:


> Didn't the redesign from the M52 to the M54 also add dual VANOS? Unless I'm mistaken, the M52 was intake only.
> 
> I wouldn't stake my life on it though


 I believe the redesign from M52 to M52TU added dual VANOS.

The E36s from '96+ got the M52. The E46s through 2000 got the M52TU.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

The M54 was originally introduced as the base engine for the X5 in 3.0l form. The 2.5l version is more of a carryover from the M52TU than the 3.0. In the 2.5, I believe the crank, rods, cams, and a few other major mechanical bits were carryovers. The block and heads were changed to accomodate the changes needed to make the 3.0 work, though I don't know exactly what those are.

The induction, injection, and electronics packages are significantly different (as TD said, M54s have full DBW), as are the exhaust configurations.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Don't bother reading Dave's paste. THere is no relevant info in that part of the Fast Facts.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Dave 330i said:


> You're welcome to seach the CD if you have the time. :rofl:


I don't think the info requested is in the FastFacts to begin with. If it is, I know exactly where it would be.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

From BMWNation:
*The 3.0 Liter Engine Overview*


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