# F*ck Vob



## Guest (Nov 15, 2002)

*F*ck VOB*

I think I might have to call BMWNA over this.

I just called my service advisor at VOB, whom I have been seeing for about 10 years (and who USED TO be extremely helpful), and asked him about looseness and vibration in my steering. I mentioned I had read that the front ball joints on these cars were prone to need replacement (do a search at bimmerforums and you get THOUSANDS of hits) and that might be the culprit. He flat out said he had never once heard of them needing replacement. He suggested it might be my tires. WHAT?! For whatever reason, I asked to set up an appointment anyway. "How soon can I bring it in?" "Well, the next available appointment I have is December 5th." Excuse me?! With every intent of making additional phone calls to other dealers, I made the appointment.

Three minutes later I call BMW of Sterling. "Oh yeah, the ball joints are a common problem. We can see you on Tuesday. If you get here by 8 we can guarantee you a BMW loaner." Now, this is the first time I have ever called them, I did not buy my car there and I've only been over there once.

Let's see. I've bought 4 cars from VOB and known my service advisor for a decade. He works on my parents cars too (and they've bought multiple cars there). And this is the treatment I get. F*CK THAT. Treat me like I'm an idiot who couldn't have any idea what's wrong with his car. Suggest it's my tires (or brakes - he mentioned that and I promptly told him I had new rotors so it wasn't THAT). Either he's lying to me about the ball joints or he's the most ignorant service advisor ever. I vote lying. And I know what would happen. I would bring in the car (inconvenience myself) and then be told that evening that they were unable to replicate the problem and that they did nothing to the car. Been there. Done that.

BMWNA REALLY needs to do something about these truly shitty service departments. If you have no interest in fixing my car, tell me that upfront. I'll go elsewhere.

BMWNA- If any of you are reading this, you can read me at [email protected].


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Who is your service advisor? 
I am rather annoyed with them, myself.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Is that a CPO covered repair?


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2002)

JST said:


> *Is that a CPO covered repair? *


The guy at Sterling indicated it would be.

I forgot to mention that I spoke with a parts guy at VOB before calling my service advisor and HE mentioned the ball joints as well. He even spoke to a tech A MINUTE OR TWO before I called my service advisor and specifically confirmed that ball joinmts were an issue.

But he also told me that there was a TSB out on the universal joint/steering column lower joint assembly and confirmed THAT with a tech as well. Of course, my service advisor claimed to have never heard of this TSB either.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Not surprised to hear of BMW of Sterling's response. I've said it many times, they are the D.C. region's best. They've only been open since January, though, so hopefully they keep this level of quality going in years to come. They're also relatively expensive and out-of-the-way for most people.

I *am* rather surprised to hear about VOB. I'd heard generally good things about them in the past, and your customer loyalty should've been worth a little more than "we've never heard of it."


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *I *am* rather surprised to hear about VOB. I'd heard generally good things about them in the past, and your customer loyalty should've been worth a little more than "we've never heard of it."  *


I haven't heard anything good about service at VOB yet. I have heard good things about sales (although I couldn't get anyone to alk me when I went there), but not service. THe last time I went ot them for service it was for my 84 318i and I don't recall it being particularly pleasant, but that was back in 88.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> The guy at Sterling indicated it would be.
> 
> ...


Let me know what happens. I've got a bit of a vibration in the steering wheel at around 50-60 mph, and I've had the tires balanced twice, so I'm looking for other explanations.


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## Big Al 330i (Jan 12, 2002)

*Re: F*ck VOB*



TD said:


> [ . Either he's lying to me about the ball joints or he's the most ignorant service advisor ever. I vote lying. . [/B]


Or he is a prick. You should be able to relate to that. :lmao: It is nice to see that you got treated they same way you treat most people around here. Seems that you do not like being talked down to. Maybe you can learn from this. Like they say "what goes around , comes around."


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## CD-55 (Dec 19, 2001)

I have had a similar experience when arranging for service visits at BMW of Sterling. I left BMW of Fairfax and never looked back except to have my M3 deposit returned.


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## FSelekler (Jan 15, 2002)

I have very close friends working at VOB, and guess what? I do NOT go to VOB to purchase anything or for service.

I live in Germantown and I travel for 40 mi. to go to Sterling, I have not been treated any better by any car dealership and forget the loaner, spend time in their show room; much more enjoyable


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2002)

FlyingToaster said:


> *I have very close friends working at VOB, and guess what? I do NOT go to VOB to purchase anything or for service.
> 
> I live in Germantown and I travel for 40 mi. to go to Sterling, I have not been treated any better by any car dealership and forget the loaner, spend time in their show room; much more enjoyable  *


My car is at Sterling today. So far, so good.

I have been very impressed.

It seems like they are enthusiasts there as well. From what I hear, they tend to be pretty forgiving as far as denying warranty coverage due to mods.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

TD said:


> *
> 
> My car is at Sterling today. So far, so good.
> 
> ...


I would agree with that, to some extent. They are a licensed Dinan reseller/installer, and they also sell and install UUC parts for their customers. According to my service advisor they will essentially find and install anything you request. So they have some confidence in their shop's abilities, and they clearly understand the enthusiast's attitude towards cars.

That said, i wonder what would happen if one attempted to make a warranty claim against a part that was affected by a dealer-installed modification. Perhaps there's a limit to what they will install, or they have a rule about where to draw the line on coverage. Either way, I've never been treated poorly at BMW of Sterling. My only complaint is their extremely high parts pricing.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> I would agree with that, to some extent. They are a licensed Dinan reseller/installer, and they also sell and install UUC parts for their customers. According to my service advisor they will essentially find and install anything you request. So they have some confidence in their shop's abilities, and they clearly understand the enthusiast's attitude towards cars.
> 
> That said, i wonder what would happen if one attempted to make a warranty claim against a part that was affected by a dealer-installed modification. Perhaps there's a limit to what they will install, or they have a rule about where to draw the line on coverage. Either way, I've never been treated poorly at BMW of Sterling. My only complaint is their extremely high parts pricing. *


The NCC new member party was at Sterling a little bit ago (the efternoon/evening of an autocross), that I don't think any of you went to. I came away rather impressed, particularly with the service manager. If it wasn't such a pain for me to get out there from Silver Spring, and I actually had a reason to take the car in, I'd give them a try. I'm going to go with Tischer (also a Dinan dealer) for my oil change/sticky pedal/assorted trim issues next month or January because they are so close to me (and I haven't heard anything negative about their service yet) and see how it goes.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2002)

JST said:


> *
> 
> Let me know what happens. I've got a bit of a vibration in the steering wheel at around 50-60 mph, and I've had the tires balanced twice, so I'm looking for other explanations. *


Verdict- Control arm bushings shot. Chris (the guy we met at JetFest who was also my service advisor today) recommended aftermarket poly bushings and suggested I have them installed when I go back to have my front shocks put in.

It was kind of funny. He sheepishly asked why I had stock shocks up front and Konis in back. I told him I was supposed to have the Konis installed yesterday and they didn't get around to me. They wanted to keep the car overnight and do it today. I decided getting the shudder diagnosed was more important. So it goes back next Monday for the shocks.

Chris suggested I have the bushings installed to spare me a half day of DIY effort. I am kind of inclined to DIY. How hard can it be?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

TD said:


> *
> Chris suggested I have the bushings installed to spare me a half day of DIY effort. I am kind of inclined to DIY. How hard can it be? *


Not hard. I've done it on other cars, and it's not bad...but kind of a PITA. Not to mention that the stock bushings are probably quite grimy. If you're feeling cheap, you can easily DIY; I would. But it probably would be easier just to have 'em do it as long as it's up there. No idea how much they'd charge for that.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> Not hard. I've done it on other cars, and it's not bad...but kind of a PITA. Not to mention that the stock bushings are probably quite grimy. If you're feeling cheap, you can easily DIY; I would. But it probably would be easier just to have 'em do it as long as it's up there. No idea how much they'd charge for that. *


A lot will depend on whether I have replacement bushings in hand by Monday. I am ordering some of the Powerflex polyurathane bushings as we speak ($58/pair from Taylor Autosport). I *should* have them by the weekend and I was already planning on intalling the BMP poly sway bar bushings I have sitting around sometime this weekend so I might just do both.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Verdict- Control arm bushings shot. Chris (the guy we met at JetFest who was also my service advisor today) recommended aftermarket poly bushings and suggested I have them installed when I go back to have my front shocks put in.
> 
> ...


You should have told him that you did it to decrease understeer, and that you were thinking of going to Konis on one side, stock on the other for oval track work.

Mine goes in to Passport Thurs. I'd like to check out Sterling (and Chris seemed like a good guy), but it is SUCH a haul out there that I'll probably only do it if Passport does something evil.

EDIT: Wait a minute. I thought with M3s the bushings weren't replaceable, and you had to go with new control arms?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

JST said:


> *
> 
> You should have told him that you did it to decrease understeer, and that you were thinking of going to Konis on one side, stock on the other for oval track work.
> 
> Mine goes in to Passport Thurs. I'd like to check out Sterling (and Chris seemed like a good guy), but it is SUCH a haul out there that I'll probably only do it if Passport does something evil. *


:lmao:

A haul it is. If I didn't live out there, I probably wouldn't have set foot in the dealership. But I'm glad I did.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2002)

JST said:


> *
> EDIT: Wait a minute. I thought with M3s the bushings weren't replaceable, and you had to go with new control arms? *


They are replacable. And mine are ordered. I'll do them this weekend.

EDIT- This thread (http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24026) probably talked me out of a DIY. What's another couple hours of shop time, right?


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## JLee (Jul 19, 2002)

let me say one good thing about VOB,

if you get to know the parts guys they will sell you parts at wholesale/mail order prices..usually about 25% to 30% off

depending on which guy it is

So what are sterlings prices like ? its a little out of the way but i've been searching for a new mechanic. 

jeff


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2002)

JLee said:


> *let me say one good thing about VOB,
> 
> if you get to know the parts guys they will sell you parts at wholesale/mail order prices..usually about 25% to 30% off
> 
> ...


I did not need any parts when my car was there but I hear their part prices are not good. And their labor rate is pretty outrageous too. But they did not require three weeks lead time for an appointment and they were honest and knowledgable. After a many visits to VOB where I got the car back with an "unable to duplicate" and professed ignorance from my SA upon bringing the car in, this honesty was refreshing.

I think I'll continue to get low-dollar parts from VOB with the CCA discount, big-dollar parts mail-order (Circle or Pacific), DIY as much as I can, have dealer service done at Sterling, and have other work done at Excluservice.

If you do go to Sterling for service, ask for Chris when you call to set up the appointment. He's a true enthusiast (currently modding a Cooper S) and is very mod-friendly.


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## JLee (Jul 19, 2002)

let me know when you need big $$$ stuff...

be glad to help you get the discount from VOB

its alot closer for both of us !


jeff


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

TD said:


> *I did not need any parts when my car was there but I hear their part prices are not good. And their labor rate is pretty outrageous too. But they did not require three weeks lead time for an appointment and they were honest and knowledgable. After a many visits to VOB where I got the car back with an "unable to duplicate" and professed ignorance from my SA upon bringing the car in, this honesty was refreshing.
> 
> I think I'll continue to get low-dollar parts from VOB with the CCA discount, big-dollar parts mail-order (Circle or Pacific), DIY as much as I can, have dealer service done at Sterling, and have other work done at Excluservice.
> 
> If you do go to Sterling for service, ask for Chris when you call to set up the appointment. He's a true enthusiast (currently modding a Cooper S) and is very mod-friendly. *


Ditto, ditto, and ditto. I put Sterling in the "expensive but worth it" category for dealer service.

Their parts pricing is not good. However, it is good enough for me to buy small things like oil ($4.17 per quart of synth, beats Mobil 1 unless you buy those Wal-Mart jugs that are never in stock) and oil filters ($9 or so). I'll order from places like Pacific to get the big stuff. For example, Pacific charges $113 or so for the entire E36 X-brace kit. Sterling wanted something like $180 before the 10% CCA discount.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *Ditto, ditto, and ditto. I put Sterling in the "expensive but worth it" category for dealer service.
> 
> Their parts pricing is not good. However, it is good enough for me to buy small things like oil ($4.17 per quart of synth, beats Mobil 1 unless you buy those Wal-Mart jugs that are never in stock) and oil filters ($9 or so). I'll order from places like Pacific to get the big stuff. For example, Pacific charges $113 or so for the entire E36 X-brace kit. Sterling wanted something like $180 before the 10% CCA discount.  *


Well, I'm still going through my $2/qt Mobil 1. But I order filters and other small stuff from bimmerparts.com. Filters run $4-5/ea for the Mahle. Wiper blade inserts are pretty cheap there too.

I got my x-brace and OEM alarm from Circle.

And I've ordered replacement (upgraded?) parts from various sources. My shocks (Koni SAs) and brake pads (Hawk HPS) actually came from TireRack. My control arm bushings from Taylor Autosports. Other stuff from BMP (which IS overpriced - but they offer a CCA discount).

I guess it all depends...


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2002)

JLee said:


> *let me know when you need big $$$ stuff...
> 
> be glad to help you get the discount from VOB
> 
> ...


The next big thing I'll need is the '99 (3-spoke) airbag. I already bought the wheel I just need the airbag. When I called Pacific and Circle months ago asking their pricing, they said they would not ship airbags, so I'd have to buy it locally. When I called VOB's wholesale parts desk, I was quoted ~$468 with the CCA discount.

I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

But I'll probably wait a while longer (at least until spring) as this falls mod budget has been blown. Especially since I jumped in on the ZKW ellipsoid group buy (I wonder when they'll arrive - grr...)


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## in_d_haus (Jan 2, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *For example, Pacific charges $113 or so for the entire E36 X-brace kit. *


 You can get it from Cutter for $109 :thumbup: Yea Manny


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## Faheem Daddy (Oct 7, 2002)

Shelly BMW here in Southern California has terrible service too, they lied to me about everything when I bought my car, and are completely rude. They act as though they're doing _you_ a favor for selling you the car, rather us doing them a favor for buying a car from them. I hope BMWNA is reading this too.


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## BMWNA (Jan 15, 2002)

*Check your email for our offer of assistance.*

If you prefer, you can phone us at (800) 831-1117 or email us through the Owners' Circle at www.bmwusa.com.


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