# 535d vs A6 vs A7



## J.J. (Apr 14, 2007)

Can anyone provide any insight in to the Audi D's. I realize it may be difficult to get an unbiased opinion on BMW forum, but... we need something to talk about!

Any pros and cons to the Audi that are worth mentioning. Anyone switch from Audi to BMW or vice versa. 

I admit, upon initial review, the interior looks more luxurious than that of the 535D. I've yet to test drive either though. Thoughts?


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

I cross shopped the Audi A6 and the BMW 535. Bought the Audi. At least $7K cheaper. Nicer interior. Superior AWD system IMHO.


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## Seppo (May 12, 2014)

I suggest you drive them. The Audis are really well built, comfortable, and better driving than the 535d, especially ride and handling. The six-cylinder TDI engine has a really good reputation with owners, my mechanic works on a lot of BMW/M-B/Audi/Porsche and is a big fan of the Audi TDI engineering. MMI is similar to i-Drive, maybe easier to use if you have the navigation system. At this price point personal preference seems to take over, but I would clearly rather own an A6 or A7 than F10 BMW. Lease people prefer BMW leases, but I wouldn't recommend a diesel for anybody who only drives the low annual miles permitted by leasing, they are better suited for ownership. There the rule is own an Audi, lease a BMW.


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## Wannabe32 (Jul 2, 2014)

"There the rule is own an Audi, lease a BMW. "

I always thought it was the opposite since I see so few older Audis on the road that look good. That being said, there have been many on this forum that have questioned the long term benefits of the diesel BMWs that seem especially prone to engine issues before 100k and beyond. I personally think the new Audi's look great and if TDI is preferable to "Efficient Dynamics" then I would take a serious look. Good luck!


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

J.J. said:


> Can anyone provide any insight in to the Audi D's. I realize it may be difficult to get an unbiased opinion on BMW forum, but... we need something to talk about!
> 
> Any pros and cons to the Audi that are worth mentioning. Anyone switch from Audi to BMW or vice versa.
> 
> I admit, upon initial review, the interior looks more luxurious than that of the 535D. I've yet to test drive either though. Thoughts?


I come from VW TDI ownership. I've owned 3 VW TDIs over the past 12 years. Loved them all and I've done performance mods to all of them but time for something different and part of why I'm now in the BMW diesel fold.

How comfortable are you with an engine that has a timing BELT vs. a CHAIN? The TDI engine in the VWs and Audis all have a timing belt vs. a chain in the BMW diesels (IIRC). The belts have been reliable but there have been a few failures. All TDI engines are an interference design, so a belt failure will trash the top end, requiring the head(s) to come off for a rebuild or replaced with new head(s). The bottom end usually survives undamaged but sometimes the bottom end gets trashed too, requiring a new engine.

As for service, do you do your own maintenance or take it to the dealer? I don't know how Audi dealer service is, but VW dealer service totally sucks. They are just parts changers. They have trouble doing oil changes correctly and using the correct synthetic oil. They are THAT bad. That makes it hard to trust them for major service work like a timing belt change. You are better off to avoid dealers and do all the routine maintenance yourself and go to a specialist for major service work you can't do yourself. Whether I would recommend a VW or Audi to anyone depends on how they approach maintaining it for the long haul. To people who rely totally on their dealer for all service work, I recommend they avoid the VW and Audi brands entirely. OTOH, if a prospective owner likes doing their own maintenance and is willing to get involved when required, i.e., they're a "car" person type, they will LOVE owning a VW or Audi and want to keep it forever. My 2002 Golf TDI with many performance mods only had 361k miles on it and still going strong when I sold it to a coworker in 2010 (son needed a car for college). Maybe I should have kept it and if I did it would be past 500k miles by now. I did all routine maintenance myself and went to a TDI GURU in my area for major service work to guarantee the work is done right.

A good resource to check out for more VW/Audi TDI info is TDIclub. (www.TDIclub.com)

Good luck.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

n1das said:


> I come from VW TDI ownership. I've owned 3 VW TDIs over the past 12 years. Loved them all and I've done performance mods to all of them but time for something different and part of why I'm now in the BMW diesel fold.
> 
> How comfortable are you with an engine that has a timing BELT vs. a CHAIN? The TDI engine in the VWs and Audis all have a timing belt vs. a chain in the BMW diesels (IIRC). The belts have been reliable but there have been a few failures. All TDI engines are an interference design, so a belt failure will trash the top end, requiring the head(s) to come off for a rebuild or replaced with new head(s). The bottom end usually survives undamaged but sometimes the bottom end gets trashed too, requiring a new engine....
> 
> ...


I too am a long time member at tdiclub. While I would hesitate to recommend an Audi or VW, it would not be because they use a timing belt. I can't think of a tdi belt failure that was not due to a "mechanic" not following best practices for service of the car. The belt change interval is well over 100k mi, so there is no reason to not perform the service correctly and on time.

Don't forget that timing chains have a service life too. Its just that since there is no prescribed service interval for most of these, there's a chance that a timing chain will break some day, albeit a few hundred thousand miles down the road. I'd rather have a timing belt that had a design life and intended replacement instead of a "lifetime" timing chain.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

d geek said:


> I too am a long time member at tdiclub. While I would hesitate to recommend an Audi or VW, it would not be because they use a timing belt. I can't think of a tdi belt failure that was not due to a "mechanic" not following best practices for service of the car. The belt change interval is well over 100k mi, so there is no reason to not perform the service correctly and on time.
> 
> Don't forget that timing chains have a service life too. Its just that since there is no prescribed service interval for most of these, there's a chance that a timing chain will break some day, albeit a few hundred thousand miles down the road. I'd rather have a timing belt that had a design life and intended replacement instead of a "lifetime" timing chain.


I have no problem with either belt or chain but would rather have the chain, as it can still get periodic maintenance on many engine designs, either with adjustment of tensioners or just proper examination to prevent failure. With synthetic oils, I have yet to need a chain replacement on my cars, at least for less than 250,000 miles.

One thing that a belt can do is fail prematurely, as of course a chain can, but the belt can be subject to a failed gasket that gets engine oil on the belt. This happened to my daughter's Honda Civic which fortunately showed problems in oil leaking but the belt needed to be replaced very prematurely. The service to change the belt was done poorly by the Honda dealer and caused the problem.

PL


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

I looked at the Audi TDI Q7 and found it very nice and very comfortable.

I was about to jump ship after years with BMW but the Audi steering was the only thing that turned me off - that disconnected feel due to the Electric Power Steering.

The Q7 did not have the option for Sport + mode or custom mode to adjust suspension, engine, transmission, and steering feel that the A4/A6 had.

The one part I did like was that Audi does not inflate the RV and the return of a clean Audi usually results in cash back due to the residual.

Audi also does early lease returns to make it even easier to get into another one with the cash you get back***8230;

At the end of the day, I ended up with another BMW diesel (second diesel), fourth BMW.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Pat_X5 said:


> I looked at the Audi TDI Q7 and found it very nice and very comfortable.
> 
> I was about to jump ship after years with BMW but the Audi steering was the only thing that turned me off - that disconnected feel due to the Electric Power Steering.
> 
> ...


Pat, doesn't the F10/535D have electric steering too? I do like the hydraulic steering in my 335D. I drove A4 sedan and wagon with 2.0 TFSI first. One test drive in the 335D and it was over.

I had been waiting and waiting and waiting for an A4 to come with a TDI and now i hear they are coming but only with a 4 banger. no thanks


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## windsearcher (Oct 17, 2014)

After owning a VW, I experienced the timing belt failure and it wasn't pretty. Service interval for that on my Jetta was at 95k miles...... mine went out at 92k and trashed the top end. Needed new head, new valves, etc, etc..... not fun.

Back on topic, had a chance to ride in and drive an Audi Q5 TDI, and while we have been looking at a BMW X5d, it is a very close call. X5 will most likely get the nod since it is bigger, and the Q7 is really a lot bigger than we want (and doesn't get the same good reviews the X5 does). For quality wise, I would say they are both comparable, and performance wise, they are very close. I think the X5 would be a little quicker than the Q5.... but the Q5 AWD system is supposed to be a lot better, and the Q5 mileage is significantly better.

I know... not exactly on point, but it does translate to the 535d vs A6 TDI I think...... the A6 performance isn't quite as good as the 535d from what I understand, but ride is a little more comfort oriented on the Audi and mileage is a bit better from what I understand. Looking for performance? I think the BMW gets the advantage.

IMO, it will come down to personal preference, and neither would be a bad choice. I was very surprised at how strong the Q5 diesel was.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

The F10 can be very expensive. IMHO you need the dynamic handling package or at least m-sport to keep it upright, both of which are expensive. A no-line 535d doesn't exactly drive well. Performance is there of course but control? Not the way I perceive it. 

In the US it is also very speculative to say how the price of diesel develops. And whether there will be issues with carbon buildup, other reliability or fuel quality. I mean I would love the range in particular but so far BMW's F-xx diesels don't convince me. The things they have in the UDE event are nice. Good rocket ships. But that required both m-sport and DHP. Right next to the UDE event there are the test drive cars which have a no-line 535d which is terrible.


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

Squiddie said:


> The F10 can be very expensive. IMHO you need the dynamic handling package or at least m-sport to keep it upright, both of which are expensive. A no-line 535d doesn't exactly drive well. Performance is there of course but control? Not the way I perceive it.
> 
> In the US it is also very speculative to say how the price of diesel develops. And whether there will be issues with carbon buildup, other reliability or fuel quality. I mean I would love the range in particular but so far BMW's F-xx diesels don't convince me. The things they have in the UDE event are nice. Good rocket ships. But that required both m-sport and DHP. Right next to the UDE event there are the test drive cars which have a no-line 535d which is terrible.


+1 :thumbup:

Exactly my thoughts - I looked at the 535d and thought the same thing - those that are used to driving the older generation BMWs will want the stiffer more feeling DHP & M Sport options for sure. The electric power steering was very soft and non feeling which was a big turn off just like the Audis. Very pricey overall when I was shown it - opted for the X5 diesel which was the last of the hydraulic steering.

I don't know what I am going to do in 2016 when I look for another vehicle - will the EPS get any better ? Will I have to change to Audi which has the much better EPS Sport + mode ? Or will BMW do better then Audi with their new revised EPS ???


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

Pat_X5 said:


> +1 :thumbup:
> 
> Exactly my thoughts - I looked at the 535d and thought the same thing - those that are used to driving the older generation BMWs will want the stiffer more feeling DHP & M Sport options for sure. The electric power steering was very soft and non feeling which was a big turn off just like the Audis. Very pricey overall when I was shown it - opted for the X5 diesel which was the last of the hydraulic steering.
> 
> I don't know what I am going to do in 2016 when I look for another vehicle - will the EPS get any better ? Will I have to change to Audi which has the much better EPS Sport + mode ? Or will BMW do better then Audi with their new revised EPS ???


I really don't feel good about this. It is really unclear whether m-sport still does anything if you get DHP anyway. The 704 suspension gets deleted but at least in the 4-series it is obvious (to me) that BMW plays with all kinds of other parameters, too, based on line and body style, or color for all I know. All 4-series drive so different you can tell them apart blind.

F10 xdrives don't get the electric support for the power steering, they still have hydraulic. Does that rescue a F10? I have no idea.

BMW in their wisdom also decided to kill that half-DHP you could buy with the 528i until MY2014 or whereabouts. But a 535i or 535d with DHP is very expensive, especially if you also dump on m-sport just to be sure even though you don't get the suspension included. Oh and maybe xdrive just to get hydraulic power steering support. At least they still let you buy Harman-Kardon a'la'carte in the 35s.


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## corso (Nov 7, 2014)

I test drove both the Audi A6 TDI and the BMW 535d, they cost about the same, both have plenty of power and lots of torque, but in my opinion, the bimmer is a better car, the steering feels a whole lot better than the Audi, the bimmer fun factor was way higher than when I drove the Audi. The bimmer comes with the Maintenance program included. I owned a VW golf TDI, dealer service was terrible and I tried different dealers, I had to start doing my own services. My local bimmer dealer service is excellent and they are always on point when in comes to fixing and determining faults. Definitely test driving the car is a must. I read a couple of comparison articles on line between the Mercedes, Audi and BMW diesel models and BMW came on top. I currently own two bimmers and wanted to give the A6 a chance but I think the bimmer is a better car though the A6 is an excellent vehicle also but it do it for me while testing it.


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