# Diesel Production schedule



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

rmorin49 said:


> if bmw doesn't continue to offer a suitable oil burner, i'll be driving a benz, audi or vw.
> 
> Sent from my iphone using bimmerapp


+1


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

rmorin49 said:


> If BMW doesn't continue to offer a suitable oil burner, I'll be driving a Benz, Audi or VW.


Also interesting to note that M-B and VW don't seem to have any problem with introducing the diesel-powered versions concurrent with new model releases.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

Is BMW always secretive about future models? Or is it just with Diesels


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

GB said:


> Also interesting to note that M-B and VW don't seem to have any problem with introducing the diesel-powered versions concurrent with new model releases.


How so? Had to wait a year for the diesel E class and that actually is why I ended up in a BMW. Also what about when VW pulled the TDI for at least a year from the Jetta? Or how about how they pulled the TDI from the Bug for awhile and finally coming back with the redesigned Bug or that is my understanding for the Bug.

Sent from my iPad Nano


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

Snipe656 said:


> How so? Had to wait a year for the diesel E class and that actually is why I ended up in a BMW. Also what about when VW pulled the TDI for at least a year from the Jetta? Or how about how they pulled the TDI from the Bug for awhile and finally coming back with the redesigned Bug or that is my understanding for the Bug.
> 
> Sent from my iPad Nano


The redesigned 2013 MB ML will be available with diesel in the US, as will the 2013 C-Class. The new Passat will have a diesel option. So there may have been some delays in the past but from what I've seen lately both of those manufacturers aren't afraid to announce diesel models concurrent with the gasser updates and redesigns.

Graham


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

GB said:


> The redesigned 2013 MB ML will be available with diesel in the US, as will the 2013 C-Class. The new Passat will have a diesel option. So there may have been some delays in the past but from what I've seen lately both of those manufacturers aren't afraid to announce diesel models concurrent with the gasser updates and redesigns.
> 
> Graham


I wonder if the country it is manufactured in makes a difference. Also I thought the redesigned ML at least was coming ou this year as a 2012. I did not realize the Blutec C class was a new chassis. ML and Passat I know are both made in the states.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

I really think BMW is missing an opportunity to compete with MB in the mid-size class. BMW should offer the US market a 535d or a 520d (with a MT). The E class MB doesn't have any competition but I wouldn't doubt that Audi may well offer an A6 diesel in the future. If VW ever offers the Passat CC in a diesel I would definitely consider buying one for my wife as I really like the design.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

rmorin49 said:


> I really think BMW is missing an opportunity to compete with MB in the mid-size class. BMW should offer the US market a 535d or a 520d (with a MT). The E class MB doesn't have any competition but I wouldn't doubt that Audi may well offer an A6 diesel in the future. If VW ever offers the Passat CC in a diesel I would definitely consider buying one for my wife as I really like the design.


Passat diesel comes back out this fall but it is a Passat built specific for the US market and built in the US. It is not the same car built overseas. From what I understand it has the same TDI that a Jetta comes with. Plus from what I am reading the Passat has been cheapened up a good bit to drive the cost down closer to $20k. Probably a decent commuter but nothing I'd go and compare to a BMW, Mercedes or Audi. I'd probably buy a Passat TDI Wagon if they were to make one but sounds like they are not going to from what I have read via Internet searches. But I might still consider a Passat TDI, if cheap enough it could be a decent little mileage hawg for daily beating.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

bimmerdiesel said:


> Is BMW always secretive about future models? Or is it just with Diesels


BMW generally likes to control information very carefully, but I would be very surprised if they did not increase the choice of diesels in NA within the next couple of years.


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## 3d fan (Jun 17, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> Passat diesel comes back out this fall but it is a Passat built specific for the US market and built in the US. It is not the same car built overseas. From what I understand it has the same TDI that a Jetta comes with. Plus from what I am reading the Passat has been cheapened up a good bit to drive the cost down closer to $20k. Probably a decent commuter but nothing I'd go and compare to a BMW, Mercedes or Audi. I'd probably buy a Passat TDI Wagon if they were to make one but sounds like they are not going to from what I have read via Internet searches. But I might still consider a Passat TDI, if cheap enough it could be a decent little mileage hawg for daily beating.


Snipe,

While I read that the Jetta was cheapened as far as materials to lower cost (although Jetta wagon supposedly wasn't retaining independent suspension & other components that sedan does not), I also read that Passat is supposedly not cheapened on quality of materials. Most of the cost savings passed on to lower MSRP were to come from building car here versus Europe & buying parts (other than engine) locally. This combined with Not having to hedge currency fluctuations supposedly saved money. I will say that it looks like it has a lot of interior room, much more than 3 series. Obviously it won't perform like 335d, but could be a nice high MPG "larger car" for a lot of people. Also, if it helps further diesel acceptance in the US, that is a good thing for all of us.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I read on the TDI forum a review from someone that saw the TDI Passat at some car show. He mentioned several cheapened things but perhaps some were just pre production issues. Given the massive cost savings though it is pretty easy to believe that some cheapening had to happen. That also is where I read that it is not at all the Passat sold elsewhere but something specific to the states.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

The new Jetta has also been significantly redesigned for the US market. It now rides, looks and feels more like an American car and not surprisingly it is selling very well. It is one of the roomiest cars in its class as well. I will wait and see what the "new" Passat looks like and if I like it, I'll go and drive one but if it drives like a Chevy Malibu I will likely pass and move on to Audi or MB. A 1 series, say a 120d, would be an awesome commuter car especially with a 6 speed MT.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

But isn't the Jetta sold in the states the same basic car that is sold in Europe? What I have been reading on the Passat and could be misinformation but it has been saying it is very different than it'd euro counterpart and how it only will be sold in the states, where it also will be made.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> But isn't the Jetta sold in the states the same basic car that is sold in Europe? What I have been reading on the Passat and could be misinformation but it has been saying it is very different than it'd euro counterpart and how it only will be sold in the states, where it also will be made.


No. Beginning aboutt 1-2 years ago, the Jetta sold in the US is a completely separate model from the EU Jetta. It's bigger and softer, and significantly de-contented so that they can compete on price with Corolla/Civic.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

IMHO both the new Jetta and Passat look dull and uninspired as far as exterior styling is concerned. Anyone mourning the passing of the Chevy Cobolt or Dodge Stratus should be pleased with VW's work. But the Passat CC is another story...that one looks great to me. Regardless, it's good news that VW is continuing to offer the diesels!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

floydarogers said:


> No. Beginning aboutt 1-2 years ago, the Jetta sold in the US is a completely separate model from the EU Jetta. It's bigger and softer, and significantly de-contented so that they can compete on price with Corolla/Civic.


Interesting. The one thing I find strange is how close in cost the Passat and Jetta look like they are going to be.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

GB said:


> IMHO both the new Jetta and Passat look dull and uninspired as far as exterior styling is concerned. Anyone mourning the passing of the Chevy Cobolt or Dodge Stratus should be pleased with VW's work. But the Passat CC is another story...that one looks great to me. Regardless, it's good news that VW is continuing to offer the diesels!


I finally saw an A7 in person today. Remixes me of the CC, anyone know if they any relation?


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

*A little OT, but*



Snipe656 said:


> Interesting. The one thing I find strange is how close in cost the Passat and Jetta look like they are going to be.


Saw this: http://www.seattlepi.com/business/b...mbers-Williams-III-Consumers-love-1436443.php about the new Jetta (and Passat).


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## Max Schnell (Jun 22, 2011)

I think what irritates me personally is how averse to diesel my "fellow Americans" are. They see diesel as dirty and expensive but they fail to understand diesel vehicles get far better fuel economy compared to their gasoline counterparts .... engines generally last longer...and the advent of this car clearly shows they can out perform gas engines in acceleration and even top speed.

If 10% of the public were driving 335d or TDIs can you imagine the savings in imported oil alone? :thumbup: It's just a matter of perception. I can only hope those biases will change over time.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I'd imagine if too many diesel vehicles were on the roads then we'd be facing issues with supply since things here are geared towards the production of gasoline.

Thanks for that link.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

Snipe656 said:


> I'd imagine if too many diesel vehicles were on the roads then we'd be facing issues with supply since things here are geared towards the production of gasoline.


Or the government would step in and make sure any cost savings are eliminated through higher taxes on diesel fuel...which is what the EU is trying to do right now: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14976341,00.html. Sometimes being under the radar has it's advantages....

Graham


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

GB said:


> Or the government would step in and make sure any cost savings are eliminated through higher taxes on diesel fuel...which is what the EU is trying to do right now: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14976341,00.html. Sometimes being under the radar has it's advantages....
> 
> Graham


True. With this recent surge in fracking and shale, I am just waiting for our government to increases taxes to drive up the costs of natural gas.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

rmorin49 said:


> I really think BMW is missing an opportunity to compete with MB in the mid-size class. BMW should offer the US market a 535d or a 520d (with a MT). The E class MB doesn't have any competition but I wouldn't doubt that Audi may well offer an A6 diesel in the future. If VW ever offers the Passat CC in a diesel I would definitely consider buying one for my wife as I really like the design.


I agree and for what it is worth I really think we will see more diesel BMW offerings. Keep in mind BMW likes to introduce changes early in the model life or with the life cycle impulse. I have talked to Adrian and he agrees with me that we are likely to see a 535d when the F10 is up for its LCI. I love my 335d so much that I would be willing to take a 535d and give up the 6MT. I also see Audi and MB increasing their diesel offerings simply because fuel prices are making people consider more fuel efficient cars. Give it time guys....market forces take time to turn into actual product.



Snipe656 said:


> Passat diesel comes back out this fall but it is a Passat built specific for the US market and built in the US. It is not the same car built overseas. From what I understand it has the same TDI that a Jetta comes with. Plus from what I am reading the Passat has been cheapened up a good bit to drive the cost down closer to $20k. Probably a decent commuter but nothing I'd go and compare to a BMW, Mercedes or Audi. I'd probably buy a Passat TDI Wagon if they were to make one but sounds like they are not going to from what I have read via Internet searches. But I might still consider a Passat TDI, if cheap enough it could be a decent little mileage hawg for daily beating.


It is funny. My first car was a VW and I was a huge VW fan (have owned 5 of them....all Jettas/GTIs/GLIs) until I got my first BMW. The current direction of VW leaves me with the impression, as Rmorin said, they just want to sell as many cheap cars as they can and the hell with the German engineering that made VW's special. I see VW/Audi the way most people see Toyota/Lexus. I looked at the Jetta TDI before I took the 335d and my impression was WOW a Toyota Corolla diesel. Cheap, big, basic, high mileage car. Guess what...that is exactly what VW wants people to think and I think that is why they are selling like hotcakes. It is a very good car for what it is and at 18k a gasser Jetta 2.5 (or 26k for TDI) represents excellent value. I am fortunate I can afford something nicer and can afford a BMW. However, if I needed a cheap 20k car the Jetta is at the top of my list because, in my honest opinion, it is the best car out there in its price range.



rmorin49 said:


> The new Jetta has also been significantly redesigned for the US market. It now rides, looks and feels more like an American car and not surprisingly it is selling very well. It is one of the roomiest cars in its class as well. I will wait and see what the "new" Passat looks like and if I like it, I'll go and drive one but if it drives like a Chevy Malibu I will likely pass and move on to Audi or MB. A 1 series, say a 120d, would be an awesome commuter car especially with a 6 speed MT.


Well I would not say it drives like a Chevy Malibu....it is not nearly that bad. But, from one VW loyalist to another VW loyalist, I will tell you this Jetta is a serious downgrade from the older VW's that both of us have purchased. Forget comparing this thing to your former R32 because there is no comparison. The R32 came from an era when VW was selling Audi's with a VW badge. Those days are over my friend. VW now stands for basic, cheap european themed transportation. Like I said earlier, they are good cars for what they cost, but.....


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

We actually have owned more VW cars than any other make but we got out of them a few years back. All of them were Bugs though and a lot of them too. The really big issue VW has or at least in my neck of the woods is the dealerships and their customer service. One of my friends has one of their mini vans and bought near his house. They had a bad experience during some service visit so they switched to the dealership near his work. The one near his work literally had his wife in tears for how they treated her and that is the same dealership that made us decide not to buy another Bug. 

It is funny to see how different car communities look at things. I was on a MB forum in recent weeks and over there they had people who were saying how Mercedes is messing up by selling their sedan diesel for more than the BMW diesel offering. It was as if they completely ignored the fact an E class should be compared to a 5 series and a 3 series compared to a C class.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

VWAG has said it wants to be the biggest car manufacturer on the planet. The jetta/passat are evidence of their strategy to get there. I think with the recent hit to the quality of Toyota (part real, part imagined) VW sees an opening to make head way especially in the US. I have a lot of fond memories of VW. Many of my first driving memories are of the original Passat, the Corrado, and the pre-90s jettas/golfs/scirrocco. However, the current styling of the Jetta/Passat/Golf make me cringe (CC excepted). I haven't driven them so I won't comment on their driving characteristics, but their looks alone are hideous. 

This is my first foray into diesel. I plan on keeping my 335d for 10yr/100k assuming it remains reasonably reliable. I'm hoping that the VW styling has improved when it comes time to replace the SO's Mazda 3 in 4-5 years. If not then a TDI quattro wagon will get a hard look (if they are still making them).


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

3ismagic# said:


> If not then a TDI quattro wagon will get a hard look (if they are still making them).


Is that to imply someone makes one today? If so then who or is it one of those cars the States never get to see?


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

You're right they didn't bring it to the US. I assumed they had since you can get the A3 with a TDI. Ugh.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

3ismagic# said:


> You're right they didn't bring it to the US. I assumed they had since you can get the A3 with a TDI. Ugh.


Hmm...what do you think of the Audi A3 TDI? I have not looked at one. It is 37k equipped the way I would want it. I guess that is not too bad in light of what my 335d cost, but it is a Golf sized car. I am not sure I see the value there. Anyone agree or disagree? The real value is in the VW line of diesels as long as you can accept the cheapness of the cars.


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## anE934fun (May 10, 2008)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> Hmm...what do you think of the Audi A3 TDI? I have not looked at one. It is 37k equipped the way I would want it. I guess that is not too bad in light of what my 335d cost, but it is a Golf sized car. I am not sure I see the value there. Anyone agree or disagree? The real value is in the VW line of diesels as long as you can accept the cheapness of the cars.


The A3 had some weird equipment specification issues (apart from FWD torque steer) that ultimately I couldn't get past. Things like front passenger seat not having power adjustment, for example. For the amount of coin they were asking for the A3, and what was being left out, I just kept shaking my head.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

I have a young child so the A3 is not practical for me right now. I have friend who just bought a gasser A3 and he loves it. I haven't taken it for a spin yet.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

anE934fun said:


> The A3 had some weird equipment specification issues (apart from FWD torque steer) that ultimately I couldn't get past. Things like front passenger seat not having power adjustment, for example. For the amount of coin they were asking for the A3, and what was being left out, I just kept shaking my head.


Ahh..I see. I remember my 09 GLI Jetta was 28k with no power seats and that used to bug the heck out of me. For a 32-40k Audi that is just unacceptable. I think we know why we do not see more of these on the road.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

3ismagic# said:


> I have a young child so the A3 is not practical for me right now. I have friend who just bought a gasser A3 and he loves it. I haven't taken it for a spin yet.


I never have been in an A3 so curious what about them makes them impractical when you have young children? From what I have read on the cars I was really under the impression they were a glorified Sporwagen with just a slightly smaller cargo spacing.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

I guess I should clarify. It wasn't as practical for us. The rear seats seemed tighter than in the E90. My wife and I are both tall and so getting the car seat in without the kiddo kicking the crap out of the back of the front seats was a pain. If you are of average height or on the short side then it might be fine for you.

Ultimately the rear space was not what killed it though.
At the time I was planning on a 328xi with a 6MT. You can only get the A3 with manual in a FWD. In the end I sacrificed the 6MT and AWD for the d but it was a really hard choice and only the awesome torque of the 335d made it possible.

Most importantly I was so put-off by the steering that every little issue with the Audi became a reason not to buy it. The bimmer will be my DD. The wife didn't mind the steering in the audi and so maybe we will consider it when replacing her car down the road.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

3ismagic# said:


> I guess I should clarify. It wasn't as practical for us. The rear seats seemed tighter than in the E90. My wife and I are both tall and so getting the car seat in without the kiddo kicking the crap out of the back of the front seats was a pain. If you are of average height or on the short side then it might be fine for you.


Actually we have this issue in the 335d. At first it was not a big issue since just put some of those rear "kick" seat covers on the front seats. But then as the kiddo got older the kicks got over to the door panel. We just have to remember always take the shoes off and we will always avoid any damage to the panel. I'd much prefer a car where I could put the seat in the middle of the backseat.


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## A8540TDI (Jan 2, 2011)

I have a Golf TDI and 335d and think the Golf is a great car. It has, at least not yet, been decontented like the Jetta sedan (note the Jetta wagon is actually a Golf wagon and not like the Jetta sedan). The Golf cannot compare to the 335d in performance, but it regularly gives 8 mpg better fuel mileage! In some respects it feels like a higher quality car than the 335d - the door pockets are lined, it has a spare tire and tools, there are hooks for a cargo net the trunk, there is a decent center armrest, it has a better ride, and you can have a choice of 6 M or DSG transmission. 

IMHO, the new Passat is an extremely handsome car and looks like it costs more than it does. If VW were to put their V6 diesel in it (they won't), it would be great deal with plenty of performance.


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## Son of Isaac (Jun 7, 2011)

In what way does the Jetti TDI have a better ride than the 335d?

One of the things that has me hesitating on the d (see my post elsewhere on whether to ditch my '04 Accord or drive it until its long-from-now death) is the forthcoming Passat which promises better economy than the d in its diesel form and will be cheaper, and has gotten fairly positive reviews from press who took its first drives last month.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Ride quality is such a subjective thing between different people. For example I think the E350 Blutec rides a ton better than a 335d but most people would completely disagree with me on that. I have a hard time comparing a 335d to any of the VW TDI offerings. They just seem like cars built for completely different driver needs/wants. I do plan to look at the new Passat though when it is available. I don't expect it to compare at all to the BMW but I'd also be potentially getting something like for a daily beater which I have different criteria for.


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## A8540TDI (Jan 2, 2011)

Son of Isaac said:


> In what way does the Jetti TDI have a better ride than the 335d?


Well, as Snipe said, it is subjective, but the Golf (not Jetta) is less jiggly (probably due to not having runflat tires) and the rear seems less bouncy than the 335d. Certain types of bumps really unsettle the 335 but not the Golf. I will shortly try non RFT's on my d and report on how the ride changes. My observations were sort of confirmed when, on a recent visit, my sister-in-law (a totally non car person) asked that we take the Golf on a 500 mile trip because the back seat and ride was more comfortable than the 335d!

My comments apply to the 335d with sport package.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I guess I should add that my 335d ride experiences are all non sport package. I find the ride a little too firm for some of our crummy roads. When I drove the E350 it was equipped with their sport package and on one of those crummy roads it just road so much better. I drove the bmw to the Mercedes dealer so i could do back to back comparisons. But I am sure the larger car helped with that ride feeling. I have never been in a Golf or the newer Jettas to judge them. I do have a hard time getting past FWD driving characteristics but I can live with those.


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