# Incorrect exhaust fluid - No start in 200 miles.



## Quest3300 (Dec 5, 2018)

Hi everyone, as the title suggest I have the dreaded countdown of death. I've searched every post here and on other forums and haven't been able to find a few answers. My car is a 2014 328d with 124k+ miles. 

Below in the attached picture are the codes it's giving me. I'm currently at zero miles and the car won't start. Prior to, I emptied the DEF tank and refilled it with fresh exhaust fluid, then drove it 70+ miles above 60 mph to try to get the NOx sensors to kick in and erase the code, to no avail. I'm going to have the final reset (not sure if that verbiage is correct) done to give me additional mileage for one last test drive. 

I have several questions, please bare with me as I'm an extreme newbie. 

1. Is there a way to activate the NOx sensor without driving the car?
2. When driving the car is there a visible sign that alerts you when the sensor does activate?
3. Is this an issue that could be solved by updating the cars software via ISTA, which I'm currently reading about and trying to understand. 

Lastly, thank you in advance for any knowledge you're able to provide. My dealer has a bad reputation and I'd like to avoid going that route.


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## Quest3300 (Dec 5, 2018)

Took my car to the dealership and was told I have two failing NOx sensors that need replaced. I've attached the documents they gave me from the diagnostic test.

This verbiage has me hesitant to replace the sensor units. "The stored faults point to a software error in the following control unit: DDE" 

"The problem can be remedied by programming as from following ISTA/P version 2.49.2"

Does this mean a software error could solve the issue WITHOUT replacing the NOx sensor?

Again, thank you for any help/advice you can offer.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

Quest3300 said:


> Took my car to the dealership and was told I have two failing NOx sensors that need replaced. I've attached the documents they gave me from the diagnostic test.
> 
> This verbiage has me hesitant to replace the sensor units. "The stored faults point to a software error in the following control unit: DDE"
> 
> ...


The remedy does not repair the damage done to your Nox sensors. Are they charging you 3.1 hours to replace both sensors and another 1.5 hours for programming? that seems excessive.


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## n00bkiller944 (May 21, 2018)

dzlbimmer said:


> The remedy does not repair the damage done to your Nox sensors. Are they charging you 3.1 hours to replace both sensors and another 1.5 hours for programming? that seems excessive.


Is programming even required for these NOX sensors? Anyone DIY this that can tell us?


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## Quest3300 (Dec 5, 2018)

*No luck*

I took it to my mechanic that works on diesel buses and he replaced both NOx sensors, cleaned the exhaust fluid injector and I drove the car for 1 hour at an average speed of 78mph for 98 miles and the message is still there. Now I can't start the car and I'm at a loss. I've already done the 50mile reset once.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

Quest3300 said:


> I took it to my mechanic that works on diesel buses and he replaced both NOx sensors, cleaned the exhaust fluid injector and I drove the car for 1 hour at an average speed of 78mph for 98 miles and the message is still there. Now I can't start the car and I'm at a loss. I've already done the 50mile reset once.


Did you update the software in the dde?


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## n00bkiller944 (May 21, 2018)

Quest3300 said:


> I took it to my mechanic that works on diesel buses and he replaced both NOx sensors, cleaned the exhaust fluid injector and I drove the car for 1 hour at an average speed of 78mph for 98 miles and the message is still there. Now I can't start the car and I'm at a loss. I've already done the 50mile reset once.


Woof, that is awful. I wish I knew more about the requirements for the software update. In to hear the update on what happens next


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## Quandary (Dec 22, 2015)

Ask your mechanic if they cleared the faults and adaptations?


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## n00bkiller944 (May 21, 2018)

Any updates Quest?


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## SPL15 (Feb 3, 2019)

I'm guessing a faulty SCR catalyst was the actual issue & needed replacement at the tune of a lot of whole lot of money...

I'd also guess that the OP is either PO'd & disgusted w/ the cost to replace to the point where he's no longer motivated to post or sold the car (don't blame him), or is in talks to get this replaced under a good will gesture by BMW (where it's also not wise to publicly post)...


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## wayne3546 (May 19, 2016)

I also have the 'count down of death' occurring. Someone put in the wrong DEF fluid. How is this count down reset? I'd like to test drive it after cleaning out the system.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

wayne3546 said:


> I also have the 'count down of death' occurring. Someone put in the wrong DEF fluid. How is this count down reset? I'd like to test drive it after cleaning out the system.


Draining the system and putting in DEF should cause the system to reset within few miles, certainly less than 200, probably less than 100.

This all begs the question: there is only one DEF for sale in the USA/CA. The same DEF is used in semi-trailer tractors, light-duty pickups (ford, chrysler, chevy) and cars (328d, 335d, x5d, 535d, Mercedes-Benz, VW/Audi.) It is impossible to buy "wrong DEF". So, what was put in? Water? Why did you allow that "someone" to touch your car, since if they put water (or coolant or something) in the DEF port, there's no way they should be touching your car in any mechanic/tech position/way.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

There is no such thing as ***8220;wrong DEF.***8221; The alarm is a conclusion by the ECU based on inadequate response to a known injection of DEF. The alarm is more likely due to failing sensors.


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## wayne3546 (May 19, 2016)

I'm not sure what was put in to the DEF. I bought the car in this condition. It was taken to BMW and the "wrong DEF" was their explanation. 

But the countdown is at it's end and needs reset.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

*SCR catalytic converter system test*

newTIS.info beta
Home / BMW E70 X5 xDrive35d SAV / Wiring Diagrams and Functional Description / Power train / Diesel electronics DDE7 / SCR system / SCR: Exhaust emission system / SCR catalytic converter, SCR system test / *SCR catalytic converter system test*


NewTIS said:


> The SCR catalytic converter converts nitrogen monoxide and ammonia to water and nitrogen (reduction). This reduction is monitored by two nitrogen oxide sensors. The efficiency and effectiveness fault memory is stored in the engine control unit if the amount of converted nitrogen oxide is insufficient. It is not always possible to clearly identify the fault cause using these monitoring methods.





NewTIS said:


> The SCR catalytic converter system test can be used to check the nitrogen oxide sensors and the SCR catalytic converter for operability. The system test consists of 11 sub-tasks and lasts approx. 1 h. The system tests ends automatically after the engine is started.


https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...atalytic-converter-scr-system-test/1VnYY6llhc

I looked for "SCR catalytic system test" in NewTIS to no avail, so it must be a component of ISTA.


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## wayne3546 (May 19, 2016)

Thank you Floyd and Doug. The information is helpful.


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## Quest3300 (Dec 5, 2018)

Here's an update. 

I had the car towed to the dealership and they "programmed" the DDE and the modules. The car still would not start. They then say that the metering valve is cracked and once that's replaced they'll be able to drive it and test it.


They replaced the metering valve.. the car still wouldn't start. I was then told that one of the New Nox sensors I replaced a week earlier was "ripped" by the drive shaft and needed to be replaced. When I went in to see where or how this happened they couldn't tell me, other than "something up in there must've cut it". 

I express my concern that they can't get the car started to test these fixes and that I'd rather not keep replacing parts that can't be tested to see if they fix the issue. At that point one of the mechanics stated "We'll call BMW and get the mileage reset. That's easy, We do it all the time". My service rep confirmed this and said, "your car thinks the Def fluid is empty, this will fix that." 

Now I'm being told that they can't reset the DDE and that I have to replace it. My service rep says that they had no idea BMW changed this policy and that there's nothing he can do but charge me for a new DDE computer regardless of what he told me prior. He stated that he knows I would not have let them replace the Nox sensor if they couldn't reset the DDE because I could have replaced it on my own for less than half the price they charged me.

Currently, I have a case with the executive customer care office and I'm asking that they replace the DDE for me due to bad advice from the service center. We'll see what happens.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Never heard of such. Best wishes. Somebody is lying, somebody that stands to profit and salaried workers are paid the same from day to day.


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## Quest3300 (Dec 5, 2018)

Thanks Doug. I have faith that BMW will make it right. I've been professional and patient, I hope it's worth it.


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## Quest3300 (Dec 5, 2018)

I was just denied a reset or replacement DDE by BMW. They are all in agreement that I was given false information and that I authorized repairs because of that. They are blaming it on a lack of communication between the service center and BMW and placing 100% of the cost on me. 

Good times


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