# Reliability of BMW powered Rolls and Bentley?



## CodyItaliano (Feb 19, 2009)

as most of us should know, BMW bought out Rolls Royce and Bentley about 12 years ago or so. looking mainly under the hood and at the interiors this is easy to tell.

anyways what i'm getting at is that i have been looking curiously at some of the Sereph and Arnage models as they are aging and droping in value and are more easily attainable. well somewhat. 

the Sereph was powered by the 5.4 V12. the Arnage green label by the 4.4 V8, red label has its own 6.75 V8. so my question is with older models you know the reliability was not so good in terms of having to service the car often if used regularly. i would like to think this is not going to be quite as often on these newer models. anyone worked in service for Rolls or Bentley? or maybe owned one? i know a few people that have older models, silver shadow, silver spur and some vintage ones. most dont tend to drive them daily and mainly because they are afraid to break them and have them in the shop. 

just looking foward for a future investment.


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## CodyItaliano (Feb 19, 2009)

can anyone suggest some good Rolls/Bentley forums? 

honestly i really want to start looking at something British or Italian. i'm out of my SUV wanting faze. but then again Range Rover is still in my top picks for high end SUVs. took a peek at some Maseratis also. Ferrari would be nice, but not in my price range. Ferraris dont degrade in value too much. too bad though. 612 scaglietti is the one for me, later though.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Silver Serephs look extremely good still, however, I would never own a V12 out of warranty. Stick with a nice 2002 Bentley Red Label. Can be had for like $40k and are practically bullet proof, iron block, 4 speed transmission, springs and conventional shocks...

And no, its not an investment, simply another car. Will depreciate just like any other car, older ones are $15k...


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## AW328i (Aug 14, 2006)

I thought vw owned bentley?


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

AW328i said:


> I thought vw owned bentley?


They do. The whole transaction was a messy one. BMW never "owned" Rolls or Bentley in the 1990's, they were just supplying their engines. Rolls and Bentley were both owned by a company called Vickers up until 1998. In 1998, VW and BMW had a bidding war for Rolls/Bentley. BMW had a deal almost wrapped up, and VW came in at the last minute with a higher bid to win the deal for both brands. Or, so they thought. Turns out that Vickers had a license to use the Rolls Royce name, but did not own the name and could not transfer their license. BMW had previous dealings with Rolls Royce PLC (the airplane engine maker, not affiliated with the car maker) which actually owned the rights to the name... and BMW was able to buy the right to use the name on cars. So, VW ended up with Bentley and all the assets (except the brand name) for Rolls Royce. BMW gave VW a temporary license to sell Rolls Royce cars until 2003, at which point they relaunched the brand under BMW ownership.

Classic case of VW not doing their homework (they thought the RR brand name was included, and ended up paying way too much for really old RR assets with no ability to sell cars under the RR name) and BMW found the loophole and ended up getting the rights to use the RR name for almost nothing in comparison.

The current Rolls Royce brand is basically "all new" and people with pre-2003 Rolls Royce models deal with Bentley dealers for repairs and parts.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

SARAFIL said:


> They do. The whole transaction was a messy one. BMW never "owned" Rolls or Bentley in the 1990's, they were just supplying their engines. Rolls and Bentley were both owned by a company called Vickers up until 1998. In 1998, VW and BMW had a bidding war for Rolls/Bentley. BMW had a deal almost wrapped up, and VW came in at the last minute with a higher bid to win the deal for both brands. Or, so they thought. Turns out that Vickers had a license to use the Rolls Royce name, but did not own the name and could not transfer their license. BMW had previous dealings with Rolls Royce PLC (the airplane engine maker, not affiliated with the car maker) which actually owned the rights to the name... and BMW was able to buy the right to use the name on cars. So, VW ended up with Bentley and all the assets (except the brand name) for Rolls Royce. BMW gave VW a temporary license to sell Rolls Royce cars until 2003, at which point they relaunched the brand under BMW ownership.
> 
> Classic case of VW not doing their homework (they thought the RR brand name was included, and ended up paying way too much for really old RR assets with no ability to sell cars under the RR name) and BMW found the loophole and ended up getting the rights to use the RR name for almost nothing in comparison.
> 
> The current Rolls Royce brand is basically "all new" and people with pre-2003 Rolls Royce models deal with Bentley dealers for repairs and parts.


Very good write up. I did not know some of this.

If you look at the Silver Sereph and Arnage, both are identical cars sans the logos and drivetrain.


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## mujjuman (Feb 2, 2009)

:drools:


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## CodyItaliano (Feb 19, 2009)

ah. interesting info guys. i had forgotton about the VW bit. but oh well. maybe before thinking about buying these cars i should first build a new garage for them. i dont want something like that sitting outside. i have a lot of plans, cars just seem to come first though.

the way i figure it, finding a solid car at a great price is something i'm good at. although i dont plan on buying any time too soon, i can still contemplate what is right for me. i really dont need any fancy cars, but i have always wanted one. and at the selling prices i have found, they are more within reach. most mechanical work i can do myself, if not i know people who can.

on a side note, besides the models i had talked about, i also have always loved the Silver Spur. has the old 6.75 pushrod V8. namingly the last few years they were produced. i just dont know about those, i really dont know a lot about the other ones either, as far as build quality. the more recent models are just far out of reach and i dont even consider them.

here below are the ones i favor. Silver Seraph, Arnage, Silver Spur, and Brooklands. mind you i drive an E38 and large cars are what i go for. My E38 is quite reliable though. dont plan on getting rid of it.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

You might want to take a long hard look at parts prices.


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## CodyItaliano (Feb 19, 2009)

yeah, i know. its not like theres too many aftermarket suppliers or companies that rebuild parts for rolls or bentley. i work in auto parts, so i already know. thats not a huge concern to me though as i wont be buying this type of car to drive on a daily basis. i'd also like to find a nice used ferrari, there again not to drive daily. never had any of these cars. mainly japanese and german cars only.


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## TRWham (Aug 21, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> ...
> 
> Classic case of VW not doing their homework ...


More like a classic case of Ferdinand Piech having an anal-cranial inversion and Bernd Pischetsrieder outsmarting him. But look where it got Bernd- Piech apparently hired him at VWAG just to fire him for revenge over the RR deal.


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## captainaudio (Jul 17, 2007)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> You might want to take a long hard look at parts prices.


My nepehew drives a Bentley Flying Spur. He damaged two rims on a curb: replacement cost $3,000 each. While he was parked someone banged up the rear bumper: replacement cost $9,000.

IMO VW has been far more sucessful with Bentley than BMW has been with Rolls Royce. In affluent areas like certain neighborhoods in NYC, the Hamptons and Palm Beach there are Bentleys everywhere,

CA


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## CodyItaliano (Feb 19, 2009)

Flying Spur is a little too far from where i'm at right now. but wow, big bucks for simple parts. as far as the wheels, i have a few guys that redo wheels. already had the 19s i had on my E38 fixed, instead of replacing them. they wouldnt be anywhere near what a bentley wheel costs, but still not cheap. 

mainly what i've looked at has been not so new. generally what i'm interested would be no more than from 12 years ago. i like having navigation and other goodies older cars dont. most of the cars i've found are going for $50000 more or less, but around there. by the time i'm ready to buy, they will have depreciated even more. who knows though, i might change my mind again. i've found some great ones, just takes a bit of looking.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

captainaudio said:


> My nepehew drives a Bentley Flying Spur. He damaged two rims on a curb: replacement cost $3,000 each. While he was parked someone banged up the rear bumper: replacement cost $9,000.
> 
> IMO VW has been far more sucessful with Bentley than BMW has been with Rolls Royce. In affluent areas like certain neighborhoods in NYC, the Hamptons and Palm Beach there are Bentleys everywhere,
> 
> CA


BMW has been very successful with Rolls... they decided to go upmarket and have only offered the Phantom which is over $300,000 and is built in much lower volumes. It is nowhere near as popular as the Bentley, but that was also the goal. BMW has greatly increased sales though.

VW went for a more "mass market" approach by pricing the Continental in the mid-$100k range. You can easily buy a 3 year old Bentley for what you'd pay for a new 750, A8 or S-class... so the Bentley is much more attainable and does not have the same status as a Rolls.


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## captainaudio (Jul 17, 2007)

*Rolls and Bentley Sales Figures*

My comment was based on what cars I see on the road. I did a little research and discovered that my percecption was not entirely accurate. Bentley is selling a lot more cars than Rolls but Rolls is selling more cars than I gave them credit for.

Rolls-Royce had a record first quarter with sales of 279 units worldwide, a 60 percent increase from the year-ago quarter. Most of those, 158 units, were the Rolls-Royce Ghost, which debuted in December 2009. U.S sales of the new model are just getting under way. Rolls Royce last year had the best year in the history of the marque.

Worldwide sales for Bentley were up 16 percent from the year-ago quarter to 1,179, according to parent VW. Bentley***8217;s U.S. sales were up 18 percent for the quarter to 311.

Bentley prices start at about $175,000 and go up to about $360,000. The more expensive models are holdovers from the "Old Bentley" and are not VW engineered products and are gradually being phased out.

Rolls just introduced a new "entry level" model that is about $250,000 so although a Rolls is not necessarily more expensive than a Bentley. RR tends to be a more expensive and exclusive brand.

CA


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