# new to bmw, new to speed, new to racing...HELP



## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

Community,

After many many years of waiting and watching, I finally have a new BMW and after my European Delivery I am craving speed (see my avatar). 

I want to exercise the german engineering that went into my car and obviously that's not safe on public roads. I live in Washington, DC, so I'm willing to travel anywhere on the east coast to get to a good track.

Autocrossing seems like a logical place to start, but I really have a craving to drive very fast (130+) on a relatively straight or embanked oval track. Where should I go?

I'm planning on doing a few weekend schools, one being the ///M school in SC.

Thanks for you advice,


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## MCSL (Jan 30, 2005)

Go to VIR.

http://www.virclub.com/vir/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=22&Itemid=109


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## Dirtboy (Apr 19, 2002)

Move to Germany!  


:rofl:

J/K I used to live around DC too. Good luck findig a place to track, and be careful :thumbup:


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Join BMW CCA and attend track days. NCC (National Capital Chapter) does events at Summit Point. TarHeel chapter does events at VIR, which is a GREAT track. 

No club does much with ovals though, although some chapters do run at Lowes in Charlotte which uses part of thebanking. Also NHIS in New Hampshire.

But the thing is, anybody can go fast in a straight line, it takes a driver to go fast between the straights. 

M School is good, but realise the basic M School is all low speed stuff. The Advanced M School is the higher speed one. Both are very expensive.

Lots of other schools out there that teach you racing in real race cars, some with pretty high speeds.

BTW I hope that shot was not your car before you finished the full break in.


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## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

Pinecone said:


> BTW I hope that shot was not your car before you finished the full break in.


I had 1000 miles on the car. I did a lot of driving in Germany.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Well, up to 1200 miles you are suppsoed to run at not more than 105 MPH, and in the M3 nor more than 5500 RPM. Then over the next couple of thousand miles you gradually increase the revs, but no sustained speeds above 137. Oh, and there is a service at 1200 miles also.

So now you have posted the info for BMW NA to void your warranty on your drive train.

So far they haven't on anybody, but if you aren't going to follow the directions, maybe you shouldn't post it in public.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Pinecone's advise is good, you don't have an M3 though do you? The break-in instructions are different for non-M cars, less restrictive I think.

I've done a number of the schools that the Performance Center offers and they are all excellent. M-School isn't inexpensive, but you get a lot. It's typically 15 students and at least 6 instructors with other support personnel. There are at least 2 instructors per group of 5 students. Each group rotates through three exercises in the morning and another three in the afternoon. The instructors are all excellent. Basic M-School is done at the Performance Center with the second day at the Michelin Proving Grounds. Advanced M-Schools has been given at Charlotte (Lowes) Motor Speedway, but they just had two, two-day schools at VIR directly after the GrandAm weekend in early October. I was fortunate to be able to attend the first of the two day sessions. VIR is a great track and excellent as an instructional track. It's large at 3.27 miles with significant elevation change. From my own experience, at Basic M-School I was reaching just above 90 MPH at the end of the straight at the PC and at Michelin, at Advanced M-School the instructor with me (Donnie Isley) told me I had achieved 132 MPH at the end of the straight. 90 MPH isn't really all that slow and you can't be watching the speedometer in either case. If you want to get a feel for what the PC has to offer do one of the Car Control Clinics (the two day would be best).


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## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

Great advice guys! Thanks.


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## ActionJunky (Jul 29, 2005)

*Nasa*

I have a 1991 325I that I am building to compete on the track. I live in Virginia and I have done the track research. If you want to drive high speed tracks, I recommend joining NASA (North American Sportscar Association) and attending their HPDE (High Performance Driving Events). They usually run at Summit Point which is one of the closest tracks to you, and sometimes VIR. I believe they may also run Watkins Glen, but I am not sure. If you are a weekend warrior like me, then you will appreciate the shorter commutes. NASA is a great organization with great instructors and are very safety conscious. I plan on competing in the Spec E-30 class, and I plan to attend every NASA event this coming year.

Local autocrossing is cheap and easy, as they are usually close. It usually does not require a hotel room and an overnight stay, so I highly recommend them to get some time, but you will rarely break 45-50 mph. BMWCCA is a also a good venue, but I have not driven with them yet. NASA and autocross have taken most of my time.

Feel free to contact me and I will put you in touch with the NASA Director if you want.

Actionjunky.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SteveT said:


> at Advanced M-School the instructor with me (Donnie Isley) told me I had achieved 132 MPH at the end of the straight. 90 MPH isn't really all that slow and you can't be watching the speedometer in either case. If you want to get a feel for what the PC has to offer do one of the Car Control Clinics (the two day would be best).


Only 132???? I hit 135 - 140 on both the front and the back straight.  Heck I can hit close to 130 without full throttle trying to not run over E36 M3s. 

Actually I saw a post that the non-M break in is not over 4500 RPM. :dunno:

I would love to do both M Schools, but the dollars keep me away. I recently ran a 3 race weekend at VIR. With test and tune, practice qualifying, spring race and two enduros, I did some 140 laps of VIR under green in 3 days. For a good bit less than one M school. Not as much instruction though. But who can pass up a 90 car start.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I have not done a NASA event, but have contacted them about their events. I have several friends who are trying to get me into 944 Cup racing.

Summit Point also has their Friday at the Track (FATT) program throughout the year on Fridays (go figure  ). You get 4 sessions plus a skid pad session. Some SUPERB instructors. 

ONce you get a racing license they run Seat Time for a lot of track time, or there is a Friday test and tune before many events (every SCCA race) that is $200 for the day. You get between 5 - 7 sessions depending on turnout.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I was on the South Course accelerating from the Oak Tree to turn 1 where we got to 132. Of course, there we two of us in the car so I had a weight penalty.  
It sure felt good in any case. 

We got plenty of track time in the two days building up to two hours of full track time at the end. When you consider that we also got track time on the North and South courses there was plenty of time on the track. They also run a number of instructional exercises to build up to the track time. A big advantage for me is the close interaction with the instructors. With two per five they get to know you a bit. Donnie Isley is excellent as a right seat instructor, if you ever get the opportunity.

That particular weekend got plenty of rain, so we got extra experience at high speed driving in the rain. PTG was also there on Monday with an E36 M3, Joey Hand took some of us for laps until the rains came. Joey was there on Monday and Tuesday, he was an excellent addition to the instruction beyond the race car. I think he knew everyone's name by the second day, pretty impressive.

I'm fortunate that I can afford to do M School from time to time.

Have you considered the NCC Go Kart league this winter? It's a lot of fun.


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## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

One more question - what are the limitations of a typical insurance policy with respect to the race track. Like, is my policy valid there?

Not planning to get in an accident, just don't want to have a total loss to the tune of $35k.


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

You need to consult your insurance company. Policy varies. Some may have fine prints about events like that EVEN though it's not timed.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Okay, 132 from Oak Tree to the Bitch is pretty good. I have never run the North or South courses. Just the full course (3.25 miles) and the Grand East (4.4 miles).

On the full course the uphill esses are awesome since you get a run at them on the bridge straight.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> On the full course the uphill esses are awesome since you get a run at them on the bridge straight.


For sure, those uphill esses are special.

During the GAC race the Mustangs were scary going up there. They build up a lot of speed on the bridge straight and don't have the balance/suspension to be smooth.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Same thing with an E46 M3 on stock suspension.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I wasn't standing there watching the ZCP M3's that we had. I don't suspect we had the speed of the race winning Mustang either. It was exciting going up those esses in any case, but I didn't feel like the rear end was as loose as the Mustang looked.

Here's a picture from the GA race.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

SteveT said:


> I wasn't standing there watching the ZCP M3's that we had. I don't suspect we had the speed of the race winning Mustang either. It was exciting going up those esses in any case, but I didn't feel like the rear end was as loose as the Mustang looked.
> 
> Here's a picture from the GA race.


And for folks who've never driven VIR, you go FAST on those esses. I'm currently peaking at 112MPH in the esses because the 323 doesn't have the power to enter them faster than ~105.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

The nice thing is, if your timing is right, the terrain adds some suspension loading right where you need it. But then after the esses you come to south bend. Off camber, downhill, and if you lose it and try to horse it back on the track, you hook into a very close tire wall on the left.


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