# Dealers and destructive car wash practices



## PNW (Jan 6, 2016)

Why do so many dealer detail shops take shortcuts and use such poor car wash practices? While more noticeable on black and darker cars, damage is all but assured when dealers allow their lowest paid employees to roughly wash cars using long handled brushes, dirty rags, and/or running cars through automated car washes.

Why not spend a few more minutes and use proper tools and methods including Microfiber Scratch resistant Wash Mitts, appropriate power washers, soap cannons, the two bucket method with grit guards, safe drying methods etc.?

It seems absurd I have to instruct dealers not to wash my car when it is in for service so they don’t damage the paint.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

This is one of the many mysteries in my dealings with dealers, right there with "do not scratch the wheels" while watching in real time how they scratch a wheel. 



PNW said:


> Why do so many dealer detail shops take shortcuts and use such poor car wash practices? While more noticeable on black and darker cars, damage is all but assured when dealers allow their lowest paid employees to roughly wash cars using long handled brushes, dirty rags, and/or running cars through automated car washes.
> 
> Why not spend a few more minutes and use proper tools and methods including Microfiber Scratch resistant Wash Mitts, appropriate power washers, soap cannons, the two bucket method with grit guards, safe drying methods etc.?
> 
> It seems absurd I have to instruct dealers not to wash my car when it is in for service so they don't damage the paint.


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## zz6938 (Aug 2, 2010)

i agree..


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## Kar Don (Aug 4, 2004)

PNW said:


> Why do so many dealer detail shops take shortcuts and use such poor car wash practices? While more noticeable on black and darker cars, damage is all but assured when dealers allow their lowest paid employees to roughly wash cars using long handled brushes, dirty rags, and/or running cars through automated car washes.
> 
> Why not spend a few more minutes and use proper tools and methods including Microfiber Scratch resistant Wash Mitts, appropriate power washers, soap cannons, the two bucket method with grit guards, safe drying methods etc.?
> 
> It seems absurd I have to instruct dealers not to wash my car when it is in for service so they don***8217;t damage the paint.


This is not a new issue... been dealing with it for many years. It boils down to one thing, cost. They do it as a service for 99% of the customers who think no dirt = good wash. To do a soap cannon, 2 buckets, scratch free drying etc, it would probably add 10-15 min per car. Say they do 60 cars a day. That is 600+ minutes of labor so they would need two more employees to keep their same cycle time. The other 1% like you and I notice the swirl marks, nicks, hollograming etc associated with dealer washes. If 99% of people are happy why change?


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## PNW (Jan 6, 2016)

Kar Don said:


> This is not a new issue... been dealing with it for many years. It boils down to one thing, cost. They do it as a service for 99% of the customers who think no dirt = good wash. To do a soap cannon, 2 buckets, scratch free drying etc, it would probably add 10-15 min per car. Say they do 60 cars a day. That is 600+ minutes of labor so they would need two more employees to keep their same cycle time. The other 1% like you and I notice the swirl marks, nicks, hollograming etc associated with dealer washes. If 99% of people are happy why change?


It is an extra costand a possible opportunity.

I have three dealers to consider for service, all are reasonably competent. If one of them practiced proper wash practices, that is where I would take my car for service. My choice would not likely offer the ROI for dealers to take the extra few minutes to do the job right.

We can all speculate and may guess correctly but I am still interested in getting a response from a Dealer on the Ask a Dealer forum to my question.


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## JayR04 (Jul 17, 2015)

Time is money


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## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2014)

Time is money and 99% are satisfied. There are a lot of enthusiasts on the forums, but the 99% at BMW Portland are not. They are content with a decent, quick wash and vacuum. Fortunately, they understand that it is complimentary and what comes with that...

My wife was the asst. service manager at BMW Portland and we would speak about the car washes often LOL. She'd either be hiring or firing wash bay kids, so there are always new faces back there. They need training etc. She preached having two guys on one car for speed. Sometimes they'd wash a car only for the client to not pick up at the scheduled time. Re-wash and have the client wait? Sometimes that's okay, sometimes it's not. Again, fortunately, most Clients at BMW Portland are reasonable. She would have the wash bay focus on wheels. She found that if the wheels looked great, then nobody looked at much else. 

She's got promoted to the service manager at Cadillac. Totally different ball game! They have an automatic car wash...


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

PNW said:


> It seems absurd I have to instruct dealers not to wash my car when it is in for service so they don't damage the paint.


_Caveat emptor._.. Having said that, I fully agree with everything you said and understand exactly where you're coming from. You bought a premium car and paid a premium price. You have every right to expect premium service.

However, the car wash equipment can vary from dealer to dealer. If you don't like the car wash equipment used by a particular dealer, either change dealers or instruct the service manager that you do not wish to take advantage of the complimentary car wash services since you are very particular about the way your car is washed. Nothing wrong with that. If necessary, print your own placard and affix it to the dashboard: "Do NOT wash this car. Do NOT operate the radio. No permission granted to drive this car off dealer's premises." Choose any one or all three of those messages. Print it in very noticeable black felt-tip pen on a 4x6 index card, or similar. If the car must be driven for some reason necessary to perform the service requested, the service tech will have to ask the service advisor for permission first.

Why? Because I know from experience that nothing will piss off a customer more than "somebody" changing the settings on his radio or just leaving the radio tuned to a station the customer does not fully appreciate, especially at that volume. They come running up to the sales department complaining about violation of the sanctity of their personal vehicle. Did I exaggerate? Only because I used to hate it when it happened to me, too. I used to get extremely pissed if I found a couple of new station settings! That used to really freak me out. And I worked there! So I would yell at the service manager.

Honestly, if the service department is not doing a good job washing the customers' cars, they need to do something about the guy who supervises the car wash guys. If he can't get them to do things the right way, maybe he needs to consider a different position. The guys who wash cars and move them around and shuttle customers back and forth are entry-level employees in the service department. Turnover is, of course, high. By the way, in some areas, you might want to print your do-not-wash notice in both English and Spanish. Seriously. Sometimes it's only their supervisor who is fully bilingual.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

PNW said:


> Why do so many dealer detail shops take shortcuts and use such poor car wash practices? While more noticeable on black and darker cars, damage is all but assured when dealers allow their lowest paid employees to roughly wash cars using long handled brushes, dirty rags, and/or running cars through automated car washes.
> 
> Why not spend a few more minutes and use proper tools and methods including Microfiber Scratch resistant Wash Mitts, appropriate power washers, soap cannons, the two bucket method with grit guards, safe drying methods etc.?
> .


I don't know why, but it might as well be to ensure a steady stream of customers for independent car wash facilities who DO invest in proper equipment, techniques, and training. I happen to work as an attendant at just such a car wash.

My supervisor, who is a professional automotive detailer, is grateful for all the business he received from customers dissatisfied with the "detail" work performed at car dealerships. :thumbup:


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## PNW (Jan 6, 2016)

[email protected] said:


> Time is money and 99% are satisfied. There are a lot of enthusiasts on the forums, but the 99% at BMW Portland are not. They are content with a decent, quick wash and vacuum. Fortunately, they understand that it is complimentary and what comes with that...
> 
> My wife was the asst. service manager at BMW Portland and we would speak about the car washes often LOL. She'd either be hiring or firing wash bay kids, so there are always new faces back there. They need training etc. She preached having two guys on one car for speed. Sometimes they'd wash a car only for the client to not pick up at the scheduled time. Re-wash and have the client wait? Sometimes that's okay, sometimes it's not. Again, fortunately, most Clients at BMW Portland are reasonable. She would have the wash bay focus on wheels. She found that if the wheels looked great, then nobody looked at much else.
> 
> She's got promoted to the service manager at Cadillac. Totally different ball game! They have an automatic car wash...


Thank you for the reply. I suppose it is what it is and I can live with it. Smart of your wife to focus on the wheels. BMW brake dust and challenging spokes or whatever the proper term is, are tough to clean. I'll wash those myself as well though.


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## PNW (Jan 6, 2016)

Ninong said:


> _Caveat emptor._.. Having said that, I fully agree with everything you said and understand exactly where you're coming from. You bought a premium car and paid a premium price. You have every right to expect premium service.
> 
> However, the car wash equipment can vary from dealer to dealer. If you don't like the car wash equipment used by a particular dealer, either change dealers or instruct the service manager that you do not wish to take advantage of the complimentary car wash services since you are very particular about the way your car is washed. Nothing wrong with that. If necessary, print your own placard and affix it to the dashboard: "Do NOT wash this car. Do NOT operate the radio. No permission granted to drive this car off dealer's premises." Choose any one or all three of those messages. Print it in very noticeable black felt-tip pen on a 4x6 index card, or similar. If the car must be driven for some reason necessary to perform the service requested, the service tech will have to ask the service advisor for permission first.
> 
> ...


I do have signs for "Do not wash" but hadn't even considered the radio and "test drives". With a CQuartz sign I think they would understand the do not wash instruction but to be concerned about dealers programming a customers radio or taking unreasonable test drives seems excessive and hard to believe a dealer could allow such unprofessional behavior.


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## hankdoll (Nov 12, 2005)

My black 1er is in pretty bad shape swirl-wise because of my dealer's practice. Partly my fault because I always forget to tell them not to wash it. The cars in the showroom look great, though. They must have a different team wash those.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

PNW said:


> I do have signs for "Do not wash" but hadn't even considered the radio and "test drives". With a CQuartz sign I think they would understand the do not wash instruction but to be concerned about dealers programming a customers radio or taking unreasonable test drives seems excessive and hard to believe a dealer could allow such unprofessional behavior.


Yes, well, sometimes things are done whether the dealer allows them or not. And then the only recourse is to figure out who did it and issue the appropriate discipline. I'm not saying it happens often, because it doesn't, but every now and then somebody ends up with new stations set on their radio or they drive off and find that the radio is blaring hip-hop and they don't like hip-hop. It only has to happen a couple of times a month to the wrong customer and they will be upset, take my word for it. And who do they like to yell at? If you guessed the front instead of the back of the dealership, you win. 

As far as unnecessary test drives go, even if it happens only once or twice a year, it can be a big deal. Sometimes a very big deal. What if you're the customer and you're walking down the street with your coworkers on your way to your favorite lunch spot and, lo and behold, some young guy is driving by in your convertible with his girlfriend in the passenger seat on their way to the local McDonald's drive-thru window? Just get a phone call like that one from an irate customer once a year and it's once too much. And if we go back enough years, here's a good one for you. Get a phone call from an irate customer wanting to know why his cell phone bill shows a 30-minute call to a Latin American country during the time it was at the dealership for service? Did he call the service manager? No! What can you do other than send him a check for the phone call and a voucher for a free car detail -- done lovingly by the same guy responsible for the phone call, although the customer doesn't know that part. Yes. That happened. And it was in a new 7-series back when they came with cell phones when cell phones were really huge and mounted in the center console. And it was extremely embarrassing. There is no way to explain it away.

Let's just say that sometimes stuff happens. Most of the time it's not technicians but wash guys who were just hired the month before, or whatever. And it doesn't happen often. But when it does, it's a problem.

Know if the dealer uses an automatic car wash and, if so, if it is brushless and how does it clean the wheels. Does it meet with your standards or not? Immediately establish a friendly rapport with the service advisor and make sure he or she knows your expectations... in detail. Don't hold back, just communicate your expectations but do it politely and in a very friendly manner. Pushy customers accomplish nothing. Nice customers can get almost anything they ask for. Drop off a little something at Christmas (a bottle of Christmas cheer, a box of Sees candy, something like that) and the service advisor will absolutely remember you and you will get special treatment every time you come in.


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

I understand the frustration. I remember early in my career at BMW Seattle I had a very embarrassing moment bringing one of my first client's cars around from Service and having him look at me, then the BMW, then the car, then ... well ... you see where I'm heading. Good news is that he, his business, and his family went on to lease or purchase 12 BMWs with me/us.

With our new building, we invested in a $250k+ BMW approved soft-cloth brushless car wash. We have separate brushes and tubs for the wheels and the body areas that need extra attention. The machine and staff are in constant motion from 6 am to 7 pm M-Sat.

We've gotten more creative in hiring, seeking part-time college students for example to fill in the staff.

The difficulty is volume. We have to keep the line moving. And in that line are loaners that have come back, re-clean on sold used cars, new cars from the "lot" that need a quick wash. 

The only way to keep it going is to have a process that meets the needs of 95% of our Service Clients. For the other 5%, we encourage them to request handwashes only and they get set aside for the detail team.

One of the all important Service Satisfaction Survey questions is the cleanliness of the car to you. This is an important and highly visible measure, so we take it seriously.

I'd encourage clients to speak to the Service Manager if it's egregious. We want to make it right.

~M~


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## Carbon Fiver (Aug 5, 2013)

I guess here in the San Francisco area there are a lot of us anal owners. My dealer has their own set of laminated DO NOT WASH placards they scatter across my dashboard when I come in.


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## PNW (Jan 6, 2016)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> I understand the frustration. I remember early in my career at BMW Seattle I had a very embarrassing moment bringing one of my first client's cars around from Service and having him look at me, then the BMW, then the car, then ... well ... you see where I'm heading. Good news is that he, his business, and his family went on to lease or purchase 12 BMWs with me/us.
> 
> With our new building, we invested in a $250k+ BMW approved soft-cloth brushless car wash. We have separate brushes and tubs for the wheels and the body areas that need extra attention. The machine and staff are in constant motion from 6 am to 7 pm M-Sat.
> 
> ...


Thanks Michael. Seattle BMW does have a beautiful new Showroom and Service center. I have not seen the brushless car wash and appreciate the option to request a hand wash. I have had a couple issues with the service department but was put in touch with Shannon Travis and he was extremely responsive, committed to make things right, and followed through with his commitments.


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

PNW said:


> Thanks Michael. Seattle BMW does have a beautiful new Showroom and Service center. I have not seen the brushless car wash and appreciate the option to request a hand wash. I have had a couple issues with the service department but was put in touch with Shannon Travis and he was extremely responsive, committed to make things right, and followed through with his commitments.


Shannon is a great guy!


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## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> With our new building, we invested in a $250k+ BMW approved soft-cloth brushless car wash.


Isn't this an oxymoron? Brushless car washes shouldn't have any kind of cloth.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm convinced that most of the people washing cars (owner, dealer staff, car wash staff) are completely oblivious to the damage they're doing to the cars. Cars are generally washed in the shade, where the damage is not visible.

I've written off three local (non-BMW) dealerships because it their inability or unwillingness to deliver a factory ordered car without washing it. While visiting the local Chevrolet dealership, I pointed out the four brand new scratched Corvettes in the showroom to the sales manager. The showroom has 20 foot ceilings with high intensity lights in the ceiling. Under this lighting, you could see the swirls. The sales manager's response was "Yeah. That's a shame, ain't it?" In contrast, when my current BMW arrived at the dealership, the salesman called, "Your car's coming off the truck as we speak. The sales manager is guarding it. The service manager is in the back looking for traffic cones and rope."

My old girlfriend and I had a routine of going to Golden Corral for Saturday morning breakfast. We'd get a booth by the window next to the side parking lot. The restaurant would let civic groups hold car washes there every Saturday morning. I loved watching all those new cars getting washed with nylon brushes on sticks. Everybody, owners and washer was clueless. Rub-a-dub-dub-dub.


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Less an oxymoron, more just a moron. Not brushless ... soft' cloth. Thanks for the catch.


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