# M3 versus 540i?



## stm69 (Apr 5, 2003)

Since this is my first or second post, I thought that I would give a brief introduction. I'm sorry for crossposting this, but the way the forums are split up, I'd kill myself if I missed input from either camp!

I'm not looking for just *a* car. I'm not looking for *the* car. I'm looking for *my* car. I'm not an experienced driver, but I'm eager to learn. I've never owned a "performance" nor a "luxury" automobile, my 1999 Maxima (laugh and you die I still love her) has been the end of a relatively short list of cars I've had the pleasure of driving and owning.

I've always wanted to find that car that would fit me, that would be a blend of performance and some luxury. I don't care much for fancy options, like NAV (I can get lost or stop at a gas station just fine), or the like. I want something that goes fast, handles well, has a decent amount of creature comfort, a car that I can keep for many years.

My interest in a new car was peaked oddly by Infinti's G35. The G35 Sports Coupe 6MT looked to be a good choice. I have yet to test drive one, but it seems on the surface to offer quite a bit of value. Ironically, the Infiniti dealership happens to be right next to the BMW dealership. In my late night forays (I like shopping at night when there's noone else around), I have found myself drawn over the other side of the fence quite a bit, to check out the Bimmers. While I haven't made my final decision yet, finances being a big deal comparing the G35 to the below cars, I thought I would see what information I could glean from these forums.

If I'm going to get a car to last me a few years (my wife in the background is yelling forever), I'd like to do it with a bang if it's the right thing for me. Hence the subject, 540i 6 speed, or a M3 SMG. I had intended to plop a twin turbo into the G35 when they becames available, so since that was looking like $41-42K, I figured I could do an extra year or two and perhaps get something that I wouldn't be constantly looking over my shoulder playing "what if's" in my head. I know that a $32K WRX GTi with another $8K in engine mods would probably hand even a M3 it's rear, but it's like the Infiniti people laughing at the new Accord Coupe being fast but not being an Infiniti; an Infiniti isn't quite a BMW (yet?).

First question I have is, how will the 2004 model years affect resale and/or blue book of the 2003's? I don't go into this with the intention of resale, but in the time frame that I'm looking at, July at earliest for an ED possibly, and with September/October being right around the corner, it would certainly suck for a $50K+ 2003 be $35K in a year or two. So in other words, if I went for a 2003, I'd be willing to go for one in a few months, but I'm inclined to wait for the 2004's if there's good reasons for it.

Here are my thought processes for the two cars, please feel free to add your own thoughts, correct me, and/or add in ideas.

BMW M3 SMG

Pro's
* FAAAAAAAAAAAST, performance like nothing I've experienced probably. Agile, nimble, yet somewhat stealthy.
* 2+2 for the eventual baby seat
* Doesn't need much tuning off the bat, and additional cash outlays (sure I'll find some down the line)
* It's the serious performance car I have been looking for, and would be happy with (till the next thing comes out =>)

Con's
* The engine problem worries me, but I think that's just worrying now that it's supposed to be handled
* Probably high insurance
* Not sure if to go for the SMG, but equipped with Xenon/Metallic Paint/19" Wheels it's $51K, SMG makes it top $53K + $1K gas guzzler, pretty significant chunk of change. Invoice for all the above + destination looks to be $48,585 without any dealer profit.
* I believe it's not available with the possible 7% ED discount, in that case a pickup at Performance Center might be a good second choice
* Supply and demand and all, it's not likely that I can get a great deal on one

BMW 540i 6 speed

Pro's
* Sleeper car, it's not a performance monster, but it's no slouch
* Interior larger than M3? Better creature comforts, for eventual kids
* It's a more refined car, not as edgey or fast, but should be an immensely satifsying driving exprience still
* It's available in an ED, although I hear the 2004's will no longer have the discount (?)
* It's probably more available than the M3, and can get a much better deal on it

Con's
* At $57K with no options and $1300 gas guzzler, it's much more than the M3, although looking at the invoices at eurobuyers, it's within range (very barely). Invoice + destination + gas guzzler looks to be $49,220 without any dealer profit for an ED.
* Still not as performance oriented as M3

There are other issues such as where to buy, how much to finance, etc that I have to work out. I live in a smaller town, and quite frankly, I don't think the local dealer will haggle if any. I am 100 miles away from Atlanta, which should provide considerably more bargaining leverage (which is where I bought my Maxima from). I've also thought about going through Eurobuyers, any thoughts? Also, not being a real experienced driver, I'm limited to commutes, not real bad traffic. But I'm thinking about starting to look into car clubs, and/or drives being about 125 miles from the Smokies and the Gatlinburg area with lots of twisty roads with good scenery.

I'm very excited about the prospects, and am looking forward to any input, flamage or whatever you all can collectively add.

Thanks!

Sam


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

*540i being discontinued*

So, that may not be an option. Ask Jon Shafer if any more are available. They certainly won't be for ED this fall. And the new 545i won't be immediately available.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

I had a friend who was at a similar crossroads in 2000. He was #2 on allocation for a '01 M3. We talked and I told him I had just driven a 540i6 speed and couldn't wait to find one. His wife got pregnant with his second child and he chose the 540i6.

Similarly, I asked my wife the other day what she though of a TiAG M3 on the road. "Oooo it's pretty..." She said, and thoughts of a dealer visit danced in my head until she finished, "...for people without kids." A coupe is diffifcult with child seats. No two ways about it. The additional doors make baby seats easier to fill and empty. If you're considering a car you'll carry a baby seat in- think about those doors.

Tanning Machine already mentioned that the E39 will be gone in '04, replaced by an E60 545. Yes nifty and new model year, but I personally would never run a first year production of any car- especially not a Bimmer. The new model will kill your resale and depreciation on an '03 540i6. 

If you decide you want an E39, and are concerned about depreciation, I reccomend looking for a nice, low mileage, CPO '01 or '02. They're out there and they're less than a new M3. If past years are any indication, your '03 E39 will decline in value from 53K in '03 to the mid to high 30's in '05.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

stm69 said:


> *I'm not looking for just *a* car. I'm not looking for *the* car. I'm looking for *my* car. I'm not an experienced driver, but I'm eager to learn. I've never owned a "performance" nor a "luxury" automobile, my 1999 Maxima (laugh and you die I still love her) has been the end of a relatively short list of cars I've had the pleasure of driving and owning.*


I was in a similiar situation 2 years ago. I had a 1993 Nissan Altima which I loved to death, but could not continue to maintain in any sort of reasonable manner. I wanted a car I could live with for a long time, and I wanted a BMW.

First thing I discovered was the step up in performance and handling going to BMW was such a huge jump from my car that ANY BMW would have blown me away. Considering you already recognize yourself as not a very experienced driver, between the M3 and the 540i, I don't think you will suffer any immediate or near future anxiety about the performance of the car you choose. Both cars are probably more than you can handle already.

In my opinion, I think what it comes down to this:

a. 2 doors or 4 doors -- what will fit your lifestyle better? Since you sound pretty confident the baby seat is forthcoming, considerations for easy entry/exit to the rear seats is important.

b. Comfort -- the M3 is a handling leader because of the stiffer suspension, the larger wheels, etc. BMW sport package suspensions, while not designed for racing, are all pretty firm. They're not unreasonably firm, but know what you're getting yourself into.

c. Price -- what will you be most comfortable with.

Again, coming from the car you're coming from, you'll find a lot of substantial improvements from what you have. Drive the cars, and then the choices should be easier. Also take a look at the ZHP package for the 330i, which is as close as you'll get to a 4 door M3 from all initial reports.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

You have quite a price range to cross from the Infinity to the higher-end BMWs.

If you are remotely considering a family and want a long-term vehicle, they I must recommend that you stay away from ANY 3-series BMW. They just won't hack it as a family car: too small and cramped.

So, that leaves you with a 5-series. You also sound like you aren't afraid of a few modifications so here is what I will tell you:

Definately go the used route and find anything >= 2001.

Now, the choice of the 540i or, perhaps a 530i??? WAIT! 

I just recently installed an ESS S/C on a buddie's 2001 530iA. With a few minor hiccups during the install and post-install, it is now running quite strong. Strong enough to take a stock 540i. Yep, the S/C will bolt-on about ~80-90 horses. Cost? about 6.5k for the S/C. For a mod-happy person, this might just be the compromise you are looking for. Since you like to row gears, the ESS S/C will be nearly perfect...my buddy with the Auto says ESS really needs to develop some s/w for the tranny and apparently they are working on it.

Good Luck with your decision!

Chris


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Ågent99 said:


> *If you are remotely considering a family and want a long-term vehicle, they I must recommend that you stay away from ANY 3-series BMW. They just won't hack it as a family car: too small and cramped.*


Disagree, so far.

(1 baby)


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## rost12 (Dec 22, 2001)

stm69 - you'll have to decide for yourself what's more important to you - performance or luxury/comfort?

When I still had my 325i I got to test drive a 540i/6spd and I was blown away by the "maturity" of the 5-er. Spoiled as I was by 3 series, 5 series is on a higher level altogether build and luxury wise. Yet, it's still a bimmer, with a manual and a sports package and it outhandles the new MB E-class with its adjustable suspension.

I'm sure E46 M3 is faster than the 540i, but the difference in "maturity" is still there. And about speed, M3 needs to be reved to be fast, while 540i with it's torque V8 is a bit easier to drive calmly. So unless you want the "boy racer" feeling all the time, 540i is a better choice, in my opinion.

There's that thing about new style 5 series coming out this autumn, so resale values on E39s are going to take a hit. But if you keep the car long enough, you won't notice it that much. There's also that issue with new design being not as attractive as the old one, at least for some.

Personally, I was choosing between E46 M3 and E39 M5 some time ago, I went with M5.

But in any case, you can't loose  Both cars are excellent and will serve you well.

Cheers.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Plaz said:


> *Disagree, so far.
> 
> (1 baby) *


I have a 13-month old as well...I just didn't like the lack of room in the 3er (among many other things) and the 5, I believe, was built for a more comfortable ride than the 3. We've already taken a couple trips to LA and a couple to Seattle and all were great but the trip to 'fest this year will be the first long trip for the baby...we'll see how this turn out.

She's got the Britax Marathon car seat (real plush-like) so we hope we get we we paid for! :yikes:

Chris


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## stm69 (Apr 5, 2003)

Thanks guys for all the great feedback, it's given me a lot to think about. I will try and hit up a dealership this week, and see what I can test drive. Also have to hit up the wife *Grin*

Sam


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## M.Wong (Jan 9, 2003)

I agree with your assessment on the E39, “it's no slouch… interior larger… a more refined car.” For us, the size was issue even though we don’t have kids. Carrying four adults in the 5er is reasonably comfortable… I would not say the same for the 3er.

I am guessing E39 European Delivery will not be possible unless you get to your dealer right away. ED on the 540i/6 really saved a lot of money. If you prefer the appearance of the E39 over the new 7 and soon to be released new 5, then I would not worry about the depreciation factor coming this fall. I may not be the best person to express an opinion here, as I still like the old E30s! One of the deciding factors was that we wanted the last year of the E39, a body style we really like. Same goes for why I drive an E38.

Hopefully after test driving a couple samples, the decision will be easier. I’d argue that you would be happy with either car, but the size factor for karting the family around will be key. Personally, I like Agent99’s idea of getting a used 540i/6 or a new 530i/5 with room in the budget for some mods.


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## supercharged (Feb 18, 2003)

In a perfect world I'd say buy both


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## KEVlN (Jan 17, 2003)

how about a used m5


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## smalldog (Mar 23, 2003)

*Check out 330i w/ZHP*

From your discussion, I definitely recommend looking at the 330i sedan with the new ZHP package.

I recently test drove one, and it seemed very refined, yet still very sporty.

With 4 doors, it's very practical, too.

And, at about $42-$43K nicely configured, it's much less $$ than either M3 or 540i.

Finally, with E46 3-series sticking around until 2006 model year (late 2005 before next-gen "E90" is out), your resale value will be more protected.

Oh yeah, don't forget insurance and gas mileage: 330i ZHP is much better on both fronts. 0-60 in 5.9 secs, it's no slouch!


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