# Help me decide between an M3 or SVT Cobra



## outpost22 (Dec 29, 2003)

mike l said:


> I cannot keep from speeding in my car and that the M3 will make matter much worse. :dunno: I am going to special order a 6MT M3 in January of 2005. :thumbup:


The radar detector was the FIRST purchase 

Modding the M3 won't make it much "faster" in a straight line unless you go SC (figure 12K-25K depending on brand). The chips, exhaust, air intake are minimal gains. When I added them up, they came to a whopping 25 h.p. extra for a measley 3K or so. You would be better off buying the best tires as an upgrade, and maybe some suspension changes, IMHO.


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## rruiter (Feb 10, 2004)

EPBB said:


> I'm very surprised an M3 owner said this... What about Dinan packages.. CAIs, Exhausts, DME upgrades, Chips, etc?


small gains for an engine that's basically been pushed to the limits already in stock form.


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

Well, I did it! I just purchased a 2004 Titanium Silver/Black M3 Coupe. It has premium/cold weather/xenons/aluminum trim/Harmon Kardon. MSRP was $54,995, but the saleswoman needs to make her quota for the month and gave me $2500 off plus a free alarm. She gave me $32,000 trade-in for my 2004 330xi with 14k miles. Not bad at all. I went to 5 different dealers over the past month and this was the abolute best deal I could find, so it pays to do your homework. I will have it on Tuesday and I hope to post some pics. Thanks for all of your input in helping me decide and I hope I love it as much as you say I will. :thumbup:


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## EPBB (Aug 17, 2004)

mike l said:


> Well, I did it! I just purchased a 2004 Titanium Silver/Black M3 Coupe. It has premium/cold weather/xenons/aluminum trim/Harmon Kardon. MSRP was $54,995, but the saleswoman needs to make her quota for the month and gave me $2500 off plus a free alarm. She gave me $32,000 trade-in for my 2004 330xi with 14k miles. Not bad at all. I went to 5 different dealers over the past month and this was the abolute best deal I could find, so it pays to do your homework. I will have it on Tuesday and I hope to post some pics. Thanks for all of your input in helping me decide and I hope I love it as much as you say I will. :thumbup:


Mike,

Congrats!!!! I must say I'm jealous. Definitely post some pics! :thumbup:


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

I figured "why wait?". My 330xi will only be worth less in the spring because nobody will be interested in AWD before summer arrives. I was treated really well by the dealer, I'm not getting any younger and I'm not married. Now I have to get some snow tires for the winter months. On bad snow days I will just rent a car if I have to.


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## EPBB (Aug 17, 2004)

mike l said:


> I figured "why wait?". My 330xi will only be worth less in the spring because nobody will be interested in AWD before summer arrives. I was treated really well by the dealer, I'm not getting any younger and I'm not married. Now I have to get some snow tires for the winter months. On bad snow days I will just rent a car if I have to.


I'm going through the same thing right now. I bought a 2001 325xi in January.... I got an automatic thinking it would be better to deal with traffic, and wanted the all wheel drive for the winters in NY. Now I'm really missing the manual, and wish I had the RWD for the power... I've put 10k on the car in 6 months (shows I LOVE TO DRIVE!!! :bigpimp: ), but now I'm trying to convince myself to wait another year before I trade it in for an M3.. I'm going to test drive one tomorrow though... I'm hoping that doesn't put the nail in the coffin.


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

EPBB said:


> I'm going to test drive one tomorrow though... I'm hoping that doesn't put the nail in the coffin.


LOL. Better bring a credit card for the deposit.


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## glaws (Feb 21, 2002)

mike l said:


> I figured "why wait?". My 330xi will only be worth less in the spring because nobody will be interested in AWD before summer arrives. I was treated really well by the dealer, I'm not getting any younger and I'm not married. Now I have to get some snow tires for the winter months. On bad snow days I will just rent a car if I have to.


 From what I hear of the folks in the snow belt a good set of snow tires should see you through, Congrats!


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

mike l said:


> I figured "why wait?". My 330xi will only be worth less in the spring because nobody will be interested in AWD before summer arrives. I was treated really well by the dealer, I'm not getting any younger and I'm not married. Now I have to get some snow tires for the winter months. On bad snow days I will just rent a car if I have to.


I wouldn't drive a car with performance tires in ANY snow...


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

kurichan said:


> I wouldn't drive a car with performance tires in ANY snow...


I found that out the hard way. The 50/50 weight distribution in the M3 make it an ideal car for moderate snowy days, provided you have proper snow tires. That is one of the reasons I bought it over the nose-heavy/tail happy Cobra.


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## Lscman (Aug 5, 2003)

outpost22 said:


> The Mustang is built for a "bang for the buck" approach. Massive buying audience, much like the late Camaro. They are not made to last IMHO. :dunno:


I've owned plenty of ponycars and 5.0L Ford variants. My current 5L Ford commuter car has 278K miles on original motor. Runs just like new. The auto transmission was rebuilt once (145K mi ago) and the bill was $600 INCLUDING R&R!! It seldom breaks down and it's very simple to repair. Ponycar parts are sold EVERYWHERE and repair facilities are EVERYWHERE. For example, a 5 speed ponycar transmission is available used for $250 and a brand new transmission sells for $700. A used high output 5L motor goes for $300. *These market prices are about 5x-8x cheaper than 6cyl BMW assemblies. Compare them with V8 BMW parts...yikes. * From what I've seen, used & abused BMW salvage part sells for more than factory new Ford parts.

By far, the most unreliable car I've ever owned in 30 years is my BMW. I've never owned a car with under 70K mi showing leaky seals, control arm bushings bad, bad wheel bearings, lost speedo pixels, blown out clutches, radiators & leaky coolant reservoirs, blown out struts...what's next...bad cats?


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## outpost22 (Dec 29, 2003)

Lscman said:


> I've owned plenty of ponycars and 5.0L Ford variants. My current 5L Ford commuter car has 278K miles on original motor. Runs just like new. The auto transmission was rebuilt once (145K mi ago) and the bill was $600 INCLUDING R&R!! It seldom breaks down and it's very simple to repair. Ponycar parts are sold EVERYWHERE and repair facilities are EVERYWHERE. For example, a 5 speed ponycar transmission is available used for $250 and a brand new transmission sells for $700. A used high output 5L motor goes for $300. *These market prices are about 5x-8x cheaper than 6cyl BMW assemblies. Compare them with V8 BMW parts...yikes. * From what I've seen, used & abused BMW salvage part sells for more than factory new Ford parts.
> 
> By far, the most unreliable car I've ever owned in 30 years is my BMW. I've never owned a car with under 70K mi showing leaky seals, control arm bushings bad, bad wheel bearings, lost speedo pixels, blown out clutches, radiators & leaky coolant reservoirs, blown out struts...what's next...bad cats?


 Maybe the ENGINE andTRANNY hold up, but the cheap upholstery, cheap plastic parts, seats, squeaks, sagging doors, etc. are not made to last. What good is the engine when the rest of the car falls apart around it? There are probably a lot of BMW's around with more miles on them than the cars you describe. Just read the stories in Roundel, etc. You're talking to someone who owned original '67s, 68's and '72's Mustangs. If you want a car to really, really last, forget Mustangs and drive a Toyota Corolla. If you're looking for a balanced, well made package that holds residual value buy a BMW.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Lscman said:


> I've owned plenty of ponycars and 5.0L Ford variants. My current 5L Ford commuter car has 278K miles on original motor. Runs just like new. The auto transmission was rebuilt once (145K mi ago) and the bill was $600 INCLUDING R&R!! It seldom breaks down and it's very simple to repair. Ponycar parts are sold EVERYWHERE and repair facilities are EVERYWHERE. For example, a 5 speed ponycar transmission is available used for $250 and a brand new transmission sells for $700. A used high output 5L motor goes for $300. *These market prices are about 5x-8x cheaper than 6cyl BMW assemblies. Compare them with V8 BMW parts...yikes. * From what I've seen, used & abused BMW salvage part sells for more than factory new Ford parts.
> 
> By far, the most unreliable car I've ever owned in 30 years is my BMW. I've never owned a car with under 70K mi showing leaky seals, control arm bushings bad, bad wheel bearings, lost speedo pixels, blown out clutches, radiators & leaky coolant reservoirs, blown out struts...what's next...bad cats?


You are absolutely correct, as is the next poster. BMW uses high-quality interior materials, which leads to an enhanced perception of quality. But if you were to ask me which car I'd rather own out of warranty, an M3 or a 390 hp blown SVT Cobra, the answer is easy: the Cobra. My E36 M3 had an embarassing litany of problems and potential problems, and cost a huge amount to maintain. The Cobra, OTOH, might squeak and rattle, but I'd bet it lasts longer and costs less to keep in fighting trim.


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

JST said:


> The Cobra, OTOH, might squeak and rattle, but I'd bet it lasts longer and costs less to keep in fighting trim.


No, no, a thousand times no. I have owned two Mustangs and, like clockwork, they fall apart near the 50k mile mark. As a matter of fact, the car never drove the same with each turn of the key. Everytime I had a friend in the car they would ask "what is that noise?" Also, the engine and drivetrain noticeably degrade performance wise each time the car is driven. The engine knocks and pings when pushed hard. The transmission grinds and clunks, and sounds like it has gravel in it. I would rather own a well oiled machine that I can drive hard rather than a car that needs to be coddled, yet lacks refinement.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

mike l said:


> No, no, a thousand times no. I have owned two Mustangs and, like clockwork, they fall apart near the 50k mile mark. As a matter of fact, the car never drove the same with each turn of the key. Everytime I had a friend in the car they would ask "what is that noise?" Also, the engine and drivetrain noticeably degrade performance wise each time the car is driven. The engine knocks and pings when pushed hard. The transmission grinds and clunks, and sounds like it has gravel in it. I would rather own a well oiled machine that I can drive hard rather than a car that needs to be coddled, yet lacks refinement.


 That is entirely different than the experiences I had with my five Mustangs. My favorite one was the one that I spent 40k miles trying to kill (from 40-80k). I was completely unseuccessful. Before or since, I have never abused a car so bad and taken such poor care of. But it just kept going. And going. And it just got faster and faster. Yeah, by 80k miles it was time for a suspension rebuild, but the only five issues I had with it in all that time were two blown fuses, a map light that conked out (and I never bothered to check if it was just the bulb), a rip in the vinyl armrest and paint starting to fleck off the roof.

Anecdotes are nice, but they're just anecdotes.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

mike l said:


> No, no, a thousand times no. I have owned two Mustangs and, like clockwork, they fall apart near the 50k mile mark. As a matter of fact, the car never drove the same with each turn of the key. Everytime I had a friend in the car they would ask "what is that noise?" Also, the engine and drivetrain noticeably degrade performance wise each time the car is driven. The engine knocks and pings when pushed hard. The transmission grinds and clunks, and sounds like it has gravel in it. I would rather own a well oiled machine that I can drive hard rather than a car that needs to be coddled, yet lacks refinement.


I don't have time to post a list of universal and common problems with the E36 M3--takes too long. The E46s are still new enough that durability past the 70K mile mark is a question mark, but based on everyone's E36 experience, let's just say I wouldn't own one out of warranty.


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## Not_Applicable (Aug 1, 2004)

Are you kidding? Go for the M3. Thats a classic car. Killer good looks and awesome power...whats not to like?


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

·clyde· said:


> That is entirely different than the experiences I had with my five Mustangs. My favorite one was the one that I spent 40k miles trying to kill (from 40-80k). I was completely unseuccessful. Before or since, I have never abused a car so bad and taken such poor care of. But it just kept going. And going. And it just got faster and faster. Yeah, by 80k miles it was time for a suspension rebuild, but the only five issues I had with it in all that time were two blown fuses, a map light that conked out (and I never bothered to check if it was just the bulb), a rip in the vinyl armrest and paint starting to fleck off the roof.
> 
> Anecdotes are nice, but they're just anecdotes.


Did I mention that both Mustangs left me stranded in 90 degree heat? No other car I have owned in 17 years has done that.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

mike l said:


> Did I mention that both Mustangs left me stranded in 90 degree heat? No other car I have owned in 17 years has done that.


 In the hundreds of thousands of miles that I put on the Mustangs, the only times they left me stranded were when I drove them into things, caused damage by driving over things I shouldn't have or were stolen.

Anecdotes are still anecdotes...


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

I have had the M3 for exactly 6 days now and I absolutely love this car. I have already put 1,015 miles on it! I had to back down from several races because I'm still carefully breaking in the engine. :angel: I can't wait for 1,200 miles so I can finally floor the gas pedal and bring the rpm's over 4k. :thumbup:


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## EPBB (Aug 17, 2004)

mike l said:


> I have had the M3 for exactly 6 days now and I absolutely love this car. I have already put 1,015 miles on it! I had to back down from several races because I'm still carefully breaking in the engine. :angel: I can't wait for 1,200 miles so I can finally floor the gas pedal and bring the rpm's over 4k. :thumbup:


Hi

Hi Mike,

I must say that I'm very jealous of your M3.... I think I'm going to hold off for a bit until I get mine... Besides, I want to do the ED anyway. Would you mind if I asked how many miles were on your 330xi when you traded it in? Thanks, and have a great time with your M3. I hope you smoke a TON of people once your engine is broken in. :rofl:

Regards,

~ Eric


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## mike l (Jun 21, 2004)

EPBB said:


> Hi
> 
> Would you mind if I asked how many miles were on your 330xi when you traded it in?


Eric,

I put 15,000 miles on it in 9 months.

-Mike


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