# SPOILER: French Grand Prix



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

JPM had a crash in the first practice. Busted up the front end on the car pretty well. It started raining so the Ferraris were the only ones to get dry track runs in. Second practice it's not raining but the track still has lots of wet spots. Times will be all over the place. FW26 has some new bits on the front end to direct air over the suspension.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Both MP-19B cars only did an out lap and then came back in - and then the rains came.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I said in Alex's Mosely thread that his step down would be good. He's dictating and threatening rather than working with the teams. He's willing to run Michelin out of the sport and BMW as well. I like the fact that Michelin is making proposals. Why would the director of a sport like F1 want to tell a manufacturer like Michelin that we don't want your money in our sport. The same with respect to the engines. I got the position directly from Dr. Theissen at Indy. BMW just doesn't see how a 2.4 L V8 can do what they want to do in developing an engine for the pinnacle of motorsports.

Patrick...



> However, I am interested to see what the MP-19B can do. IMHO, this is the wrong track for this car to make its debut, but we shall see. Rumor has it that this car will be used as well for the start of next season, depending on what the FIA does with the rules changes.


You are an F1 fan after all. No matter what you say. :rofl:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Yeah, he started the thread! 

I think McLaren HAD to bring the car out, no matter which track. Hopefully the rest of the weekend will be dry... the changeable stuff makes it hard to tell who's got what.


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## ezsce46 (Mar 7, 2002)

Tough weekend ahead..


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

SteveT said:


> Patrick...
> 
> You are an F1 fan after all. No matter what you say. :rofl:


 :eeps:

I have been a Mc Laren fan since 1986 ... I can't deny it.

:bigpimp:

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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Clarke said:


> I really don't think the manufacturers are walking away with a per unit profit on the tires"sold" during a F1 race week.


Yeah, handmade tires; I bet they cost a buttload. Do they do it sans profit for the advertising?


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Renault assistance? :rofl:

<img src=http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33266>


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

:rofl: 

What's even more amazing is that the mechanics apparently got the same car back together and ready by the time the second practice started. :thumbup:


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

It's hard to define "same car" anymore when they're so good at swapping parts. :eeps:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

C'mon, Patrick is an F1 fan as much as I'm an ice hockey fan :jack:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Mr. Know-It-All said:


> If there was damage to the engine, then he's going to have to start from the back of the grid.


They kept the race car and didn't switch to the spare. He's good to go with the race engine. :thumbup:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

*Reults from Q1*

1. Juan Pablo Montoya, Williams, 1:13.377
2. Michael Schumacher, Ferrari, 1:13.541
3. David Coulthard, McLaren, 1:13.649
4. Kimi Raikkonen, McLaren, 1:13.736
5. Fernando Alonso, Renault, 1:13.750
6. Jenson Button, BAR, 1:13.772
7. Jarno Trulli, Renault, 1:13.949
8. Takuma Sato, BAR, 1:14.130
9. Marc Gene, Williams, 1:14.133
10. Cristiano da Matta, Toyota, 1:14.245
11. Olivier Panis, Toyota, 1:14.540
12. Felipe Massa, Sauber, 1:14.627
13. Christian Klien, Jaguar, 1:15.205
14. Mark Webber, Jaguar, 1:15.332
15. Giancarlo Fisichella, Sauber, 1:15.793
16. Giorgio Pantano, Jordan, 1:15.913
17. Nick Heidfeld, Jordan, 1:16.366
18. Gianmaria Bruni, Minardi, 1:18.070
19. Zsolt Baumgartner, Minardi, 1:18.108
20. Rubens Barrichello, Ferrari, no time


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Sector 3 killed Williams today. Even behind the Jaguars. Sector times.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Look at Michael's times as well. He got a slow third sector time also. Gene, Schumacher and Montoya have the fastest speed trap times. That's a downforce issue that's hurting them in the third sector. They all might have chosen a little more wing and given up a little speed for cornering in the third sector. I don't know if top speed helps with any of the passing opportunities at Magny Cours. Passing is a problem there for sure.

Speed Trap


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

*JPM's reaction to qualifying*

"It's a shame that I couldn't again set the fastest time in qualifying, after such a good pre-qualifying lap. We solved the problems I had in this morning's free practice, changing the car quite a bit, and we went out for qualifying with the right set-up."

"In qualifying I was quickest in the first two sectors, but then I made a mistake because I was pushing too hard and lost the rear of my car in the second high-speed chicane and I could only set the sixth time. The positive thing is that we showed today that the pace is there and this means we should have a strong race car. Anyway, we'll see tomorrow how we are going to perform compared with everybody else."


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Interesting qualifying.

This will be fun to watch.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Whoa!

Friday pictures:

<img src=http://www.formula1.com/photos/270x240/tvimages/2004/french/fripic7.jpg>

<img src=http://www.formula1.com/photos/270x240/tvimages/2004/french/fripic1.jpg>

<img src=http://www.formula1.com/photos/270x240/tvimages/2004/french/fripic10.jpg>​
Saturday:

<img src=http://www.formula1.com/photos/270x240/tvimages/2004/french/satpic10.jpg>​


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Holy crap (haven't I heard that before). The man is unbelievable. Awesome, just awesome! :thumbup:

Meanwhile, I would've loved to have a tap in the radio conversations that must've taken place between JPM and his team. There would've been enough "colorful language" to keep me cursing for a month.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Did we just see the beginning of the 4 stop strategy era? That was just brilliant race strategy and brilliant driving.

With the apparent resurgance of of McLaren, Williams is going to be stuck as the fifth best team it looks like.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=810153&postcount=58

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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

And to think that I want to be a F1 driver someday...  Dream on hamsterboy!



Patrick 520iAT said:


> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=810153&postcount=58
> 
> -


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

What are you trying to tell us, Vince ?

So, you are the only one who noticed it, but other drivers, the teams, their managers, journalists didn't notice anything ? :rofl: 

Anyway, as Patrick mentioned, FIA rules don't apply for Michael Schumacher. But I don't know why. :dunno:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Mr. Know-It-All said:


> Actually all the commentators for Speed commented that Spoonface's "pass" on the formation lap is illegal and should be penalized. Of course nothing came of it.


What about the teams, who are watching every bit sh-it on their monitors ? Did they raise an objection ? :dunno:


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Patrick 520iAT said:


> IMHO, then that is a lame ass goatee.


It's not a goatee. It's a soul patch. He shaved it off a few races ago. He looks a hell of a lot better without it. Now if Trulli would just lose the ponytail...


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

I just got back from watching the... "race." Well, F1 is officially bullshit. What's the point in watching a series where one team can do whatever it wants without getting penalized?

If the rules don't apply to Ferrari, there's no point in them even racing. I'm disinclined to watch any more.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Anyway, as Patrick mentioned, FIA rules don't apply for Michael Schumacher. But I don't know why. :dunno:


You really have been watching some other version of Formula One for the last decade; is the programming soooooooo different in Germany? Don't they tell you about the ridiculous, none sense, bullsh!t that constantly surrounds Spoonface? Or do you guys still just deny everything "negative"?

I can only image what it is like watching RAI UNO's telecast of Formula One.

:rofl:

I was humming the German National Anthem outloud this evening (it is stuck in my head after Spoonface's nine millionth record breaking victory ...) and my wife got so annoyed that she threw a shoe (LMAO) at me!

Anyway ...

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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

"During the formation lap practice starts are forbidden and the formation must be kept as tight as possible. Overtaking during the formation lap is only permitted if a car is delayed when leaving its grid position and cars behind cannot avoid passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field, or if your name starts with an M and ends with an S and you're in a red car."


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I think Michael forgot he wasn't on the pole and just nailed it, then backed off. It was a virtuoso performance for MS for sure, but he should have been penalized.

I'm sure Williams will improve. They didn't get enough time with the new aero stuff and the car must have been hard to drive. I haven't read the quotes yet. I noticed that Kimi and David were trying to cruise to the end and doing 1:18's and JPM kept up the 1:16's, so they had to pick up the pace. Their engine has survived a few races, but they are still a question mark.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The Roadstergal said:


> "During the formation lap practice starts are forbidden and the formation must be kept as tight as possible. Overtaking during the formation lap is only permitted if a car is delayed when leaving its grid position and cars behind cannot avoid passing it without unduly delaying the remainder of the field, or if your name starts with an M and ends with an S and you're in a red car."


I guess that rule does not really apply to uh, those Toyota drivers then? 

Oh, right.

:bigpimp:

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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

If you don't like it, don't watch it ! :thumbup:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> If you don't like it, don't watch it ! :thumbup:


Holy poop Alex, in that case, soon there will only be you and the boss of FIAT watching then!

j/k ...

But I do wonder how you can watch the same stuff as the rest of the world and yet never see any fault in your favorite team's #1 driver. And or never be willing to even mention any of these serious transgressions that have littered his career. Do you have even 1 comment about that? If so, I would love to hear it.

Right.

I can't wait to see what happens next! Time for Silverstone!

:yawn:

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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I have no problem with it :dunno:

And hat off to Ferrari and his team for tricking and cheating the whole world in front of the cameras. Gotta respect that. :thumbup:


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> What about the teams, who are watching every bit sh-it on their monitors ? Did they raise an objection ? :dunno:


Do we know if they did or not?

Regardless, it's the job of the stewards to monitor the race, not to sit around and pick their noses until a team slips them a note.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

The Roadstergal said:


> Do we know if they did or not?


I don't know. :dunno: If they didn't, why ?


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> I don't know. :dunno: If they didn't, why ?


And if they did, why was it ignored?

Bottom line, it doesn't matter. It's the job of the stewards to monitor the race.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> And hat off to Ferrari and his team for tricking and cheating the whole world in front of the cameras. Gotta respect that. :thumbup:


I don't, actually. :dunno:


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## WAM (Jan 30, 2002)

Wow, what a job by Ferrari! 

If Renault get a more powerful engine, everybody better look out. I thought Alonso did a great job hanging on in the lead for 2 stops.

Did you guys see that super slo mo shot of Alonso with 2 wheels in the air, 6-8" at the last chicane?

Great pass by Rubens, although I don't know exactly how he got past Trulli. 

How does Sato manage to blow up his engine? :dunno: 

BMW and McLaren did an ok job, nothing special.


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

All I am trying to say is: Rules are rules.

I support all teams with car manufacturers that have mass produced regular vehicles for the regular joe and jane, eg BMW, Honda, Renault, Toyota, MB. But there are times I condemn their mistakes.

1. When Williams broke the rules with 30mm longer brake ducts, and I said that was a stupid mistake. Could have been avoided. Sam deserves some good spankings from the entire team. Same goes with Toyota.

2. When Monty ran as fast as he could back to the garage and still 2 seconds short, I said rules are rules.

3. When FW26 debut earlier this year with a big nose, I said while it's a theoretically sound design, there are still tweakings needed for real-life testing. They should have kept FW25 to be competitive.

4. When Monty knocked out Ralfie at the Euro Grand Prix on the first turn, I said it was Monty's fault. He's stupid.

5. Finally, I don't think it's right for Monty to throw *colorful* languages at his team mates today, when he spun out.

No one knows for sure whether complaints have been filed against Ferrari. The lack of online press coverage on that incident does not mean anything. I read a magazine reported Ferrari filed a complaint against BAR for having a flexible wing during high speed maneuver and that it might explain why BAR is doing so well suddenly. FIA rejected this claim. BAR refuted that if Ferrari engineers had thought of such a cheat, they must have tried it as well. Guess what? Nothing mentioned on itv-f1.com or planetf1.com.

I am exhausted from typing. This discussion pointless anyway.



Alex Baumann said:


> What are you trying to tell us, Vince ?


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

WAM said:


> Did you guys see that super slo mo shot of Alonso with 2 wheels in the air, 6-8" at the last chicane?


Astonishing. The car was at quite an angle.

I think Trulli backed off a smidge just before the start-finish. Bad Trulli. No podium.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> I have no problem with it :dunno:
> 
> And hat off to Ferrari and his team for tricking and cheating the whole world in front of the cameras. Gotta respect that. :thumbup:


You are a true, fair weather, Formula One fan ... L M A O.

Hats off to you FANS.

:tsk:

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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick 520iAT said:


> You are a true, fair weather, Formula One fan ... L M A O.
> 
> Hats off to you FANS.
> 
> ...


Nope, I'm an all-weather fan. I was a Ferrari fan too, when their engines were exploding like fireworks almost in every race. :thumbup:


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Oh yeah, I'd almost forgotten about the starting incident. The big picture story is that it isn't a big deal, and that MS's parade lap "YOU CAN NOT PASS" gesture should have been penalized, but that it didn't really threaten the outcome of the race.

HOWEVER....brake ducts that didn't improve performance but were deemed improper, spending a smidgen too long on the grid due to a nonstarting car, and other various little technical fouls have cost other teams some points. In fact, Williams has lost a lot of points that way, and while the teams have to shoulder a lot of the blame, you also have to wonder why no one officially said anything about Schumi's move.

Ah, well. The officiating might be offensive, but I still can't discount Ferrari's team effort and MS's dominance in the sport. He could take a golf cart out there and end the race with some points. I mean, even if his first move is to swipe across the track to make everyone else crash at turn 1.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

That is really so nice to hear. Congrats to you for being able to hang in there through those amazingly tough times. :thumbup:

As a FERRARI fan since those exploding engine days, surely you have some non-sarcastic and honest opinions and/or comments as per my previous post. In case you have forgotten about that specific post, here it is again:



:yawn: said:


> But I do wonder how you can watch the same stuff as the rest of the world and yet never see any fault in your favorite team's #1 driver. And or never be willing to even mention any of these serious transgressions that have littered his career. Do you have even 1 comment about that? If so, I would love to hear it.


Do I need to produce a list for you? Since you are a true, all weather FERRARI fan, I am truly interested to hear your take on the ways that your favorite driver has pulled off some of these wins in the midst of a massive controversy. I mean that he really does seem to get away with anything.

Or then is it so that honestly you don't care as long as he wins?

Lastly (all sarcastic drivel aside), do you honestly think that your favorite team's #1 driver has the same set of rules that all other 19 drivers have to play by?

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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

MS has pulled the stunt of passing the pole sitter on the parade lap before. It's part of his schtick and I suppose the thinking is that it psyches the other driver. I can remember him doing it to Damon Hill. I'm sure there are others. Raikkonen did it to Ralf once too. The stewards seem to just let it go. Some rules are rules, others aren't. :dunno:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick 520iAT said:


> That is really so nice to hear. Congrats to you for being able to hang in there through those amazingly tough times. :thumbup:
> 
> As a FERRARI fan since those exploding engine days, surely you have some non-sarcastic and honest opinions and/or comments as per my previous post. In case you have forgotten about that specific post, here it is again:
> 
> ...


This is something we can never agree on. I think we have to agree to disagree.

I'll give you my honest repsonse and I guarantee everyone on this board that this will be my last post about Michael Schumacher's attitude and his qualities as a race driver.

Yes, Michael Schumacher is one of the ruthless drivers that the tracks have ever seen. Adelaide 1994 and Jerez 1997 are two examples of a ruthless and win at any cost mentality. He admitted his fault, he was disqualified, but I can't remember him ever apologizing for it. This is exactly how Senna used to be. He (Senna) believed that had a god given 'right' to win. At a race weekend, among those 22 drivers, his eyes were fixed at his archrival Alan Prost and noone else. He was the man to beat and this ultimate and holy mission was to be accomplished at any cost. (If you ever get the chance to watch Senna's DVD, you'd know what I mean)

Both these guys have the same competitive spirit, whether it's right or wrong, I don't care. That is how I like them. But this puts them apart from the rest of the field. Sometimes JPM is reminding me of Senna sometimes with his brave moves, sticking his 'nose' into corners without hesitation. In my opinion this is real racing (this is just MY opinion, I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me and I can live with it)

Another thing that I like about him is his stamina. He's 35 and still strong on the track, still the same ambition enjoying every win, showing no intention to back off, where his opponents have already quit or changed career. This sets him apart from the others, IMO.

He is the luckiest bastard you can ever encounter in this world. He spins, goes off track and manages to go back, where others deal with blown tires, broken nose, broken suspension etc. I haven't forgotten the race where his gear was stuck in the 5th many laps before the end. He finished second. He's a lucky dog, but is this something we can change ?

He built Ferrari. This team is a Ferrari + Schumacher joint venture. Without Schumacher Ferrari hadn't the slightest chance to win a race, let alone build a competitive car. Michael knows his sh-it. After Alain Prost, he is the best set-up driver that the paddocks has ever seen. Period.

His foul actions goes often unpunished, FIA says it's legal, noone raises an objection, or raises an objection, but the outcome is fruitless. He goes away with it. Should he have been punished for his actions ? Yes, he should have been. But it didn't happen. So, you are expecting me to hate Ferrari, because FIA isn't doing his job, the governing body, who is supposed to see to it that the rules apply for every team on the track ?

I agree and accept the fact that there is a Ferrari favoritism in the F1. But don't ask me why, I don't have the answer. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they are the oldest team in the series. There is always something about special about Ferrari. Whereever the red car appears, it draws attention.

The only way to beat them on the track is to build a car that is more reliable, faster than Ferrari. More importantly, if they want to beat Ferrari, you need a faster driver than Michael.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Alex, well said. Michael's not my favorite, but he sure is good as you've stated. I've also got the Senna DVD and remember him well, also ruthless. Do you remember when Senna couldn't keep the agreement he had with Prost to not pass which ever of them got to turn 1 first? Senna eventually passed Prost went on to win and just couldn't talk about it after the race. Somehow this "right to win" was always there. I don't think Michael has that same mystical thing that Senna had, but he's got amazing luck. As to this favoratism thing, it does seem there. JPM's a little different, he seems to be saying if you are in front of me and I can challenge you I will. And that's why I like him so much also.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> Oh yeah, I'd almost forgotten about the starting incident. The big picture story is that it isn't a big deal, and that MS's parade lap "YOU CAN NOT PASS" gesture should have been penalized, but that it didn't really threaten the outcome of the race.


Montoya's two-second-too-long exit from his nonrunning car wasn't a big deal, and didn't threaten the outcome of the race - hurt him, if anything.

But it was a rule - period - and rules is rules. Unless you're Ferrari.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

The Roadstergal said:


> Montoya's two-second-too-long exit from his nonrunning car wasn't a big deal, and didn't threaten the outcome of the race - hurt him, if anything.
> 
> But it was a rule - period - and rules is rules. Unless you're Ferrari.


:thumbup:

Montoya's DQ was on the slimest of technicalities, one that it took the MORON Indy stewards 50+ laps to decipher.

Yet a rule seemingly as arcane was ignored in France.

F1's true problem is a lack of consistency. They need a full-time set of stewards that travel race-to-race and enforce the rules the same way. Why Mosely has fought this, I do not know. But it makes no freakin' sense.

If you're going to have a rule book, enforce them the same for everyone, all the time.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Football refs and baseball umps are routinely lambasted for being inconsistent, but one can argue that getting black flagged in one of 18 races is a bit more significant than losing a few yards or getting called out on a ball. I'm very understanding of human error, but I'd have to agree that there's some partiality going on with the stewards. It's pretty obvious. Then again, people used to say that Jordan was untouchable and was barely called out for fouls or other things that would've gotten a rookie sent straight to the bench. :dunno:

Either way, none of this really overshadows the fact that MS and Ferrari are an unbelievable combination. All of the officiating in the world can't obfuscate that fact, not after this season.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> This is something we can never agree on. I think we have to agree to disagree.


Thanks for the thoughtful reply - you have made some very valid points.

I will try to limit my foaming at the mouth about MSchumacher/Ferrari in Formula One to www.antischumacher.cjb.net instead! 

I hope that there are no hard feelings ...

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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick 520iAT said:


> I hope that there are no hard feelings ...
> 
> -


Nope


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## Bag's330Ci (Jul 22, 2003)

WRT Schumy and the pass on the parade lap - I seem to remember the same thing happening at Silverstone in 94 and it got him disqualified in the end (due to ignoring the black flag). That whole episode was pretty harsh - The FIA lording over all parties involved with senseless suspensions and fines. What a mess that was... 

Even so, if the 10-second stop-n-go or drive-through penalties mentioned previously would have been given to him in France, he still would've won. He would've found enough speed to make up the difference.

Say what you will about him, the guy can DRIVE.


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