# Removing fine scratches from Alpine White?



## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

A while ago I posted in the Professor's thread that I had been giving my car sponge bath's during the cold weather, using a bucket of warm water. As it turns out, while the car got clean, I did create some micro-scratches using this method. 

I'm not sure how much of the car has these scratches but I saw them in the correct lighting conditions on a rear panel and on the hood. :tsk:

They are very fine and I'm wondering what the best way to remove them would be. Zaino Z-5 indicates that it will "hide" scratches but also mentions that it is primarily effective on dark colored cars.

Has anyone had any success removing fine micro-scratches? :dunno:


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## energetik9 (Sep 9, 2008)

Before I used Zaino, I used McGuire's swirl remover which worked pretty well at removing swirl marks. I can't imagine it's any better than the Z-5. Have you tried the Z5 yet?


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

energetik9 said:


> Before I used Zaino, I used McGuire's swirl remover which worked pretty well at removing swirl marks. I can't imagine it's any better than the Z-5. Have you tried the Z5 yet?


I have not tried Z5 yet. I just noticed the scratches yesterday but then the football games started. I do have a bottle of Z5 at home that is past it's recommended shelf life. But I could try it after the next time I wash the car........wash it properly that is!

I searched all over this forum and the detailing forum and couldn't really find any answers.


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

If you used that method very many times, you probably have a lot more swirls and scratches then you realize. A much safe method of cleaning is using ONR. As for the swirls, you'll need a polish. It is also be tough to take swirls and scratches out by hand. The thing you have in your corner is that your car is white, and things aren't as noticable. There are lots of good products available online, but if you don't want to fool with that, as Energetic9 suggested, Meguiars makes some good products that should help you out. Good luck!


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

KAP8 said:


> I have not tried Z5 yet. I just noticed the scratches yesterday but then the football games started. I do have a bottle of Z5 at home that is past it's recommended shelf life. But I could try it after the next time I wash the car........wash it properly that is!
> 
> I searched all over this forum and the detailing forum and couldn't really find any answers.


Z5 will only temporarily fill the scratches. Search the Detail forum and you'll find plenty of info on polish. And if you post this question there, you will gets lots of good advice.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

From the Detailing Forum it appears that people recommend Meguiars Scratch X. I'll try the Z-5 first since I have and and go from there. Again, the scratches are very fine and not at all deep.


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## nyfellas (Dec 26, 2008)

energetik9 said:


> Before I used Zaino, I used *McGuire's swirl remover* which worked pretty well at removing swirl marks. I can't imagine it's any better than the Z-5. Have you tried the Z5 yet?


+1

I also use it w/ Scratch X 2.0[$9-].. so far my car is swirl/scratch FREE!


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

And then you can get some new Zaino borderless towels to keep the scratches away.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

Snareman said:


> And then you can get some new Zaino borderless towels to keep the scratches away.


I have a bunch of borderless towels that were recommended by Zaino prior to Zaino selling their own towels. So I'm good on the towel front.


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

KAP, I agree with the above posts about looking on the Detailing sub-forum. There is a wealth of material there from guys who do this for a living. They are real experts and I learned a lot from them.
Bottom line, there are products which will temporarily hide the microscratches. If you want them gone permanently then you are going to have to use different techniques and products. It's all there.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

DSXMachina said:


> KAP, I agree with the above posts about looking on the Detailing sub-forum. There is a wealth of material there from guys who do this for a living. They are real experts and I learned a lot from them.
> Bottom line, there are products which will temporarily hide the microscratches. If you want them gone permanently then you are going to have to use different techniques and products. It's all there.


I read thru a bunch of threads and literally my head was spinning from all the different products and orbitals they referred to. However, I'll ask the guys over there.

On another note I emailed Sal Zaino for advice so hopefully he'll get back with me.


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

I know there seems to be a lot of info there, but stick with it a while and you'll pick up on the terminology and what is good for what. As you can see on this thread so far there are different ideas about what to do, and professionals do tend to use different methods than the non-pros. That's because they are getting paid and time is money. Amateurs can accomplish similar results using cheaper technologies, but it requires far more time.
Once you have narrowed it down send me a PM and I'll give you the pros and cons and maybe some tips. You WILL be able to make the surfaces undetectable from a factory finish if it's done correctly.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

DSXMachina said:


> I know there seems to be a lot of info there, but stick with it a while and you'll pick up on the terminology and what is good for what. As you can see on this thread so far there are different ideas about what to do, and professionals do tend to use different methods than the non-pros. That's because they are getting paid and time is money. Amateurs can accomplish similar results using cheaper technologies, but it requires far more time.
> Once you have narrowed it down send me a PM and I'll give you the pros and cons and maybe some tips. You WILL be able to make the surfaces undetectable from a factory finish if it's done correctly.


Thanks DSX.........the finish is almost perfect now............I'm probably exaggerating these scratches. I'm just a perfectionist about this car. I spend more time on the finish of this car than you can imagine. Coat after coat after coat of Zaino. My wife is very understanding!!


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

ScratchX works well for very small areas, like under door handles, but it's not the right thing to use for bigger areas.

You should really look into ONR for your winter cleaning. Using a bucket of water is asking for trouble.


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## Got_Leather (Sep 14, 2009)

The Zaino will *hide* at best. It will not remove. It is a sealant not a polish. If you need any help shoot me a PM. I'm local to you and have all the supplies if you need anything.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

Bill-SD said:


> ScratchX works well for very small areas, like under door handles, but it's not the right thing to use for bigger areas.
> 
> You should really look into ONR for your winter cleaning. Using a bucket of water is asking for trouble.


Yes I agree. I'm decidiing between ONR and Griot's version for my winter needs.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

Got_Leather said:


> The Zaino will *hide* at best. It will not remove. It is a sealant not a polish. If you need any help shoot me a PM. I'm local to you and have all the supplies if you need anything.


OK, thanks!! I'm going home in a few minutes. I'm going to safely clean and then apply Z-5 to a very small area where I saw some minor scratches and see how it goes.

I do agree that the Z-5 will probably only "hide" the scratch, but I want to see if it makes any improvement.

My problem with detailing is that my experience is only with Zaino products. So I'm a complete noob when I see the vast number of brands that the folks in this forum are using.

I think I'll definitely need your help!


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## KNG FARM (Aug 23, 2009)

KAP8 said:


> I do agree that the Z-5 will probably only "hide" the scratch, but I want to see if it makes any improvement.


Hey KAPB,

I Z5'd my e60 a few months back after a nice clay job. My car is Alpine white.

*I then threw on a few coats of Z2 and then a coat of P21s 100% carnauba and I have to report... Got_Leather is 100% right. The Z5 is only going to cover it up.

The problem with covering it up is that 4 weeks later, they will all come right back. I noticed the swirls only a few weeks later and they've become more noticeable as time has gone on.*

Since then, I've bought a few different types of Menzerna and some Orange pads etc... and will get rid of the swirls permanently with my Porter Cable when it warms up a bit more and I can Zaino with good results and have 2 days to get it done perfectly.

... My recommendation if you don't want to invest in all this equipment and products yet want to eliminate these swirls for good? Find a damn good detailer like one of these guys on here and pay them to get you back to par (actually better than par... a good detailer will probably bring out the paint and make it look better than you ever thought it could be). That will run you a few hundred, and you're the opnly person that knows whether that will be worth it to you.

Just my opinion. Good luck!


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

KNG FARM said:


> Hey KAPB,
> 
> I Z5'd my e60 a few months back after a nice clay job. My car is Alpine white.
> 
> ...


It's worse than that!!!...........3 coats of Z-5 yesterday did not even HIDE with swirls!


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

KAP8 said:


> It's worse than that!!!...........3 coats of Z-5 yesterday did not even HIDE with swirls!


Your going to need a good machine polish to level the clear coat. Then you can put all the Zaino on that you want.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm going with a good detail by DJ Mayo. Hopefully he'll teach me the proper use of a Porter Cable!!


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

KAP8 said:


> I'm going with a good detail by DJ Mayo. Hopefully he'll teach me the proper use of a Porter Cable!!


I think you will be very happy with that decision :thumbup:


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

Bill-SD said:


> I think you will be very happy with that decision :thumbup:


I do too!! I thought the car was perfect prior to the last month..........but maybe it wasn't. Maybe there were other imperfections that I wasn't aware of. Who knows? :dunno:

But I'm looking forward to getting it back to perfect and learning from DJ. It is very cold here in Northern Virginia this time of year, so I think we are trying to set up an appointment around the weather.


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## Envious Eric (Dec 2, 2009)

good luck, I heard DJ doesnt know what he is doing...LOL

(nice move!)


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

KAP8 said:


> I do too!! I thought the car was perfect prior to the last month..........but maybe it wasn't. Maybe there were other imperfections that I wasn't aware of. Who knows? :dunno:
> 
> But I'm looking forward to getting it back to perfect and learning from DJ. It is very cold here in Northern Virginia this time of year, so I think we are trying to set up an appointment around the weather.


I know all about the weather there, I grew up in Fairfax. I don't miss the weather back there at all, but it's been pretty crappy out here lately too.

Don't forget to post some pictures after you get the car back!


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## Got_Leather (Sep 14, 2009)

Yes, Rob and I have been talking and I will teach him as I go type of thing with products, pads, technique, etc.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Got_Leather said:


> Yes, Rob and I have been talking and I will teach him as I go type of thing with products, pads, technique, etc.


What do you charge to detail a car that is in good shape?


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## Got_Leather (Sep 14, 2009)

rmorin49 said:


> What do you charge to detail a car that is in good shape?


1 - remember your definition of good shape and mine are completely different.

2- I am hourly

3 - what exactly you want done and your expectations upon completion


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## KNG FARM (Aug 23, 2009)

Glad to hear GL is going to take care of it for you KAP. The man does excellent work... I always look forward to his threads.


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

KNG FARM said:


> Glad to hear GL is going to take care of it for you KAP. The man does excellent work... I always look forward to his threads.


I know he does excellent work. I am prepared to pay him accordingly. I think that $25.50 should cover it. :rofl:


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

KAP8 said:


> I know he does excellent work. I am prepared to pay him accordingly. I think that $25.50 should cover it. :rofl:


That including tip?


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## KAP8 (Feb 19, 2008)

dboy11 said:


> That including tip?


I have to tip him too?!?!?!? :rofl:


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