# Is it possible for HPFP to leak diesel into the oil on M57?



## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

*(Solved) Is it possible for HPFP to leak diesel into the oil on M57?*

hi friends, Wondering if anyone knows that if its possible for HPFP to leak diesel into the oil via its shaft without setting any codes for low rail pressure?Mine 2009 X5D's oil level is having oil dilution problem.Dealer took out around 600 ml after driving 4000 Kms(2500 miles).Smooth running test showed all injectors showing good readings.No start up issues and idling is smooth and getting good fuel economy:dunno:.

*UPDATE:* Dealership opened PUMA case and then BMW suggested techs to replace High pressure diesel pump.So dealer put a new pump and will monitor again.Tech was saying that it was leaking fuel into the timing chain area via its shaft and into the oil.Will monitor the level.

*Update*:
After driving 7600kms with new HPF pump,i can confirm that it was the High pressure pump leaking diesel into the oil.I checked my oil level today via dip stick and for the first time instead of going up,it actually went slightly lower(if not same) than what i recorded 7600 kms ago.Before changing the HPFP,it was rising quite a bit after driving 7~8k Kms.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Are you using any biodiesel content?


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

d geek said:


> Are you using any biodiesel content?


Here in BC bio diesel content in diesel at pumps is 5%.So just using regular chevron diesel.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

ninja_zx11 said:


> hi friends, Wondering if anyone knows that if its possible for HPFP to leak diesel into the oil via its shaft without setting any codes for low rail pressure?Mine 2009 X5D's oil level is having oil dilution problem.Dealer took out around 600 ml after driving 4000 Kms(2500 miles).Smooth running test showed all injectors showing good readings.No start up issues and idling is smooth and getting good fuel economy:dunno:.


Oil dilution with bio-diesel is not in any way caused by the HPFP. It is lubricated entirely by the diesel it's pumping and is not connected in any way with the lubrication oil system.

If you have dilution problems (and how do you know - have you had Blackstone or other labs test the oil?), it's due to too much post-injection for regeneration of the Diesel Partculate Filter (DPF). Or too many regen cycles due to a failing DPF that gets plugged too easily. The time to next regen cycle is in the DDE (ECU); get the dealer to initiate one, then see what the parameters for the next one is - you could have a bad pressure sensor in the turbo/dpf assemblies.

Oil dilution has not been a problem for the M57 in all the threads that post oil analysis; in fact dilution has been quite low in the 1% or less range.


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

floydarogers said:


> Oil dilution with bio-diesel is not in any way caused by the HPFP. It is lubricated entirely by the diesel it's pumping and is not connected in any way with the lubrication oil system.
> 
> If you have dilution problems (and how do you know - have you had Blackstone or other labs test the oil?), it's due to too much post-injection for regeneration of the Diesel Partculate Filter (DPF). Or too many regen cycles due to a failing DPF that gets plugged too easily. The time to next regen cycle is in the DDE (ECU); get the dealer to initiate one, then see what the parameters for the next one is - you could have a bad pressure sensor in the turbo/dpf assemblies.
> 
> Oil dilution has not been a problem for the M57 in all the threads that post oil analysis; in fact dilution has been quite low in the 1% or less range.


Yes i did lab test couple of thousand kilometers ago and it came up 6.3% dilution.Last time when i took it to the dealer about this problem, dealer changed the oil and sealed the cap for monitoring and then after driving around 4000 kms(2500 miles) i checked my level physically and on idrive.both were high and then dealer removed approx 650 ml of oil.
While driving in city mine DPF regenerates after approx 270kms( 170miles) and on highway last time i monitored couple of weeks ago was over 500 kms (~300 miles).

Its going back to the dealer for diagnosis again.Even i ran smooth running control test on injectors with rheingold and it was fine.All injectors were with in -.5~.5 range (acceptable range is i guess upto 4 or 5.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Only way I can see the HPFP having anything to do with it would be if the HPFP shaft seals were failing and diesel was leaking through to the drive chain side. The HPFP can leak internally and one of the outlets for such a leak would be into the timing chain cover which would then get into the oil.


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

Hoooper said:


> Only way I can see the HPFP having anything to do with it would be if the HPFP shaft seals were failing and diesel was leaking through to the drive chain side. The HPFP can leak internally and one of the outlets for such a leak would be into the timing chain cover which would then get into the oil.


Yes that's what i am suspecting.Here is one section view of HPFP i found on the web.As you can see shaft is surrounded by low pressure diesel and i think thats what lubricates it.


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

After doing some more research and reading, i found out that on Bosch HPFP also known as CP3 there is a weeping hole on the front to drain it out and prevent slow leaking fuel to enter oil.Pump has 2 seals,1 on the outer side which prevents oil to enter and inner seal which prevents diesel to escape.And there is a empty space between these 2 seals and there is a hole in that empty space.So if diesel seal fails and diesel escapes out then it should drip out from that hole and if outer oil seal fails then oil should drip out from the hole.
So dilution from the pump is only possible if there is instant and catastrophic failure of seal that weeping hole gets insufficient to drain the fuel from the shaft area or unless the drain hole gets blocked.

*EDIT and NOTE: Found out that BMW's version of CP3 doesn't have weeping hole.The first 2 Pictures of CP3 are from cummins diesel engine and 3rd from BMW*


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

UPDATE: Dealership opened PUMA case and then BMW suggested techs to replace High pressure diesel pump.So dealer put a new pump and will monitor again.Tech was saying that it was leaking fuel into the timing chain area via its shaft and into the oil.Will monitor the level.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted on further progress.


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## gcking (Jan 22, 2016)

Hoooper said:


> Only way I can see the HPFP having anything to do with it would be if the HPFP shaft seals were failing and diesel was leaking through to the drive chain side. The HPFP can leak internally and one of the outlets for such a leak would be into the timing chain cover which would then get into the oil.


I think I am having this exact problem. I believe that (on my 2012 X5d) the HPFP seals are failing and the diesel is leaking through to the drive chain side and then to the timing chain cover and finally to the oil.

Question -> If this is happening, would it continue to occur if the X5 was simply parked and idling or does the X5 need to be driving?

Thanks, gck


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

gcking said:


> I think I am having this exact problem. I believe that (on my 2012 X5d) the HPFP seals are failing and the diesel is leaking through to the drive chain side and then to the timing chain cover and finally to the oil.
> 
> Question -> If this is happening, would it continue to occur if the X5 was simply parked and idling or does the X5 need to be driving?
> 
> Thanks, gck


As long as the engine and fuel pump(liftpump in the tank) are running,fuel would continue to seep through bad shaft seal and finally into the oil.Its a leak in the low pressure side of HPF pump.


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

d geek said:


> Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted on further progress.


Update:
After driving 7600kms with new HPF pump,i can confirm that it was the High pressure pump leaking diesel into the oil.I checked my oil level today via dip stick and for the first time instead of going up,it actually went slightly lower(if not same) than what i recorded 7600 kms ago.Before changing the HPFP,it was rising quite a bit after driving 7~8k Kms.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Ninja, how many miles when problem first started?


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

BB_cuda said:


> Ninja, how many miles when problem first started?


Can't say BB_cuda that when this problem started because my X5 already had 47k miles(~75000kms) when i bought it and i noticed it when i did my first oil change.


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

ninja_zx11 said:


> Can't say BB_cuda that when this problem started because my X5 already had 47k miles(~75000kms) when i bought it and i noticed it when i did my first oil change.


I'm having the same issue (fuel dilution) on my 2010 X535d (prod 12/09). What's your production month, ninja?


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

rwalker said:


> I'm having the same issue (fuel dilution) on my 2010 X535d (prod 12/09). What's your production month, ninja?


Its 19-08-2009.

How much its rising and after how many miles?


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

ninja_zx11 said:


> Its 19-08-2009.
> 
> How much its rising and after how many miles?


I have 2 Blackstone reports that indicate out-of-line fuel dilution, from least to most recent:
5% fuel at 63k miles
6% fuel at 73k miles

Car has around 75k miles.


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

rwalker said:


> I have 2 Blackstone reports that indicate out-of-line fuel dilution, from least to most recent:
> 5% fuel after 12k
> 6% fuel after 10k
> 
> Car has around 75k miles.


Try to get gas chromatography test done on your sample and it will give you better picture.I think blackstone only does flash test to measure dilution which is not 100% accurate.

My local cat/finning lab did flash test and it came out normal but i was stumped and was not convinced by their flash test results because clearly my oil level was rising.Then i sent for gas chromatography test and sample came with 6.3% after driving just 6300 kms(~4000 miles).

Did you find any visible rise in oil level on your dip stick after 10k or 12k?


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

ninja_zx11 said:


> Try to get gas chromatography test done on your sample and it will give you better picture.I think blackstone only does flash test to measure dilution which is not 100% accurate.
> 
> My local cat/finning lab did flash test and it came out normal but i was stumped and was not convinced by their flash test results because clearly my oil level was rising.Then i sent for gas chromatography test and sample came with 6.3% after driving just 6300 kms(~4000 miles).


I don't understand the value of a re-test here. Besides, my current oil is fresh, and I don't have another sample. Your experience is valuable, but if Blackstone and my dipstick correlate, I think I can safely assume there's fuel in my oil. The oil certainly smelled fuelish.



ninja_zx11 said:


> Did you find any visible rise in oil level on your dip stick after 10k or 12k?


Yep: the car was complaining about over-filled oil both times. It stopped doing so after each change (i.e. it was not the sensor).


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

rwalker said:


> I don't understand the value of a re-test here. Besides, my current oil is fresh, and I don't have another sample. Your experience is valuable, but if Blackstone and my dipstick correlate, I think I can safely assume there's fuel in my oil. The oil certainly smelled fuelish.
> 
> Yep: the car was complaining about over-filled oil both times. It stopped doing so after each change (i.e. it was not the sensor).


Yes then you can surely say its diluting.

Do you have any warranty? If not then try to search if you can get just shaft seal for High pressure pump rather than replacing the whole pump.
Its just a bad shaft seal on the low pressure side of pump that leaks diesel into the oil and i think it should be replaceable.


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

ninja_zx11 said:


> Yes then you can surely say its diluting.
> 
> Do you have any warranty? If not then try to search if you can get just shaft seal for High pressure pump rather than replacing the whole pump.
> Its just a bad shaft seal on the low pressure side of pump that leaks diesel into the oil and i think it should be replaceable.


great info, thanks!


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

rwalker said:


> I'm having the same issue (fuel dilution) on my 2010 X535d


Any update?


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

ninja_zx11 said:


> Any update?


The car is in the shop, my dealer is going to remove the IP, inspect, and go from there. They are being pretty awesome about it: they'd like to try to charge BMW for the repair because I have records of the symptoms appearing close to warranty expiration.

Until we have something to repair, they're charging me $650 for diagnosis 

Thanks a bunch for the help, BTW. Until I showed them your work sheet, they were defensive and borderline accusatory. Your invoice put me over the top.


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

rwalker said:


> The car is in the shop, my dealer is going to remove the IP, inspect, and go from there. They are being pretty awesome about it: they'd like to try to charge BMW for the repair because I have records of the symptoms appearing close to warranty expiration.
> 
> Until we have something to repair, they're charging me $650 for diagnosis
> 
> Thanks a bunch for the help, BTW. Until I showed them your work sheet, they were defensive and borderline accusatory. Your invoice put me over the top.


Thanks!! :thumbup:


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

Got the car back today. The dealer removed the IP and reported:

"UPON REMOVAL FOUND LEAKING EXTERNAL UNABLE TO VERIFY INTERNAL LEAK"

The dealer got BMW to pay for half of the parts. Labor was $537, total bill for me was $1736, $982 for the new pump.

Hopefully this addresses the fuel dilution issue, but I won't know for another 10k miles. I wonder if I'll have the car that long...


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## ninja_zx11 (Feb 13, 2014)

Thanks for the update! Hopefully it will solve the problem.Because you have paid for the pump,did you get the old pump back?


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

Got the car back today. Total out of pocket was $1750ish, $550ish for labor. BMW covered half the parts bill because I had evidence that the fault happened before the odo passed 70k.

Invoice quote (love the all caps): CUSTOMER REQUEST CUSTOMER OFFERED AND ACCEPTED 50/50 FAS GOODWILL PARTS ONLY ASSISTANCE ---REMOVED HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP UPON REMOVAL FOUND LEAKING EXTERNAL UNABLE TO VERIFY INTERNAL LEAK. AS PER CUSTOMER REPLACED HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP AND BLED HIGH PRESSURE FUEL PUMP.

I'm happy until I see the next $3k repair bill 

Nice bonus: I asked for a specific model of loaner (3-series wagon) and they made that happen.


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

Sorry for the double post... dunno why I couldn't find my first one when I refreshed, thought I'd lost it....

No, I didn't get the old pump back, didn't ask. I wonder if I had asked, they'd have given me half of it


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## MarkoM3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi guys
Would you guys know if this diesel fuel leak into oil is covered by CA emission warranty 8yrs 80k miles? I think i have same problem. 
I changed oil after high oil level warning, than I left new oil level at 3/4 showing on NAV display. Currently NAV display oil level shows max level. So oil level raised for some reason, i dont think i have dip stick. 
Its 2010 X5 35d in service 10/2009.
Thank you

Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## rwalker (Mar 5, 2005)

MarkoM3 said:


> Hi guys
> Would you guys know if this diesel fuel leak into oil is covered by CA emission warranty 8yrs 80k miles? I think i have same problem.
> I changed oil after high oil level warning, than I left new oil level at 3/4 showing on NAV display. Currently NAV display oil level shows max level. So oil level raised for some reason, i dont think i have dip stick.
> Its 2010 X5 35d in service 10/2009.
> ...


At my dealer (also in CA) the magic number for them to fully cover it under warranty was 70k.

You need to do it if you'te keeping the car. Just raise hell and see how far you get with reimbursement.

I wouldn't be surprised if this issue eventually ends up under a warranty extension of some kind.


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## MarkoM3 (Aug 30, 2014)

Cool thank you
I pulled up all warranty info and its still under 8yr/80k CA emission.
My question is if HPFP is covered by it?
Also interesting info on SCR tank, they extended warranty in 09/2016 to 10yr/120k for it.
On CA emission subject, cars in service at and before 09/2009 are covered by 7yr/70k warranty, all cars after are in 8yr/80k, if I understood correctly.

Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

I went back-and-forth with my dealer about what seemed to be an HPFP-related fuel dilution issue about a year ago. The car is a predominantly highway-driven vehicle with no other issues or codes present and the injectors had been recently replaced at the time. Even after showing them numerous oil analysis reports confirming the problem, they supposedly did some investigation and testing, and declined to R&R the CP3, claiming they could not "prove" it was the culprit. At the time it seemed regen was the most likely explanation, so I proceeded to complete the full delete project. I will confirm what was causing the fuel dilution problem in my car as soon as I get around to it's first DPF-free oil change, probably in another few months.


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## gcking (Jan 22, 2016)

*full delete project*



Nadir Point said:


> I went back-and-forth with my dealer about what seemed to be an HPFP-related fuel dilution issue about a year ago. The car is a predominantly highway-driven vehicle with no other issues or codes present and the injectors had been recently replaced at the time. Even after showing them numerous oil analysis reports confirming the problem, they supposedly did some investigation and testing, and declined to R&R the CP3, claiming they could not "prove" it was the culprit. At the time it seemed regen was the most likely explanation, so I proceeded to complete the full delete project. I will confirm what was causing the fuel dilution problem in my car as soon as I get around to it's first DPF-free oil change, probably in another few months.


Hi Nadir,

What is the full delete project? Where can I get more info on this procedure to see if it something I should do?

Thanks, gck


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

gcking said:


> What is the full delete project?


Removal of all the car's emissions systems and installing a DDE coded to support that.


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