# Since this forum is dead: follow my rebuild work...if you are bored: very long!



## jderry (Sep 24, 2002)

Well, I am going to start a thread and periodically update it as I work on the vehicle. Unfortunately, it could not come at a worse time for me; but, hey, can't help it. So, hope some of the information I provide here is useful to someone.

A) My other green M3 is probably totaled -- not my fault since I was not driving it; but, goes under my insurance ... go figure ehh?? This occurred this past tuesday. Yeah, it will be considered AT-FAULT under my insurance. So, do NOT let other people drive your cars unless you REALLY REALLY trust them -- like your wife. Insurance FOLLOWS the car. E.g., it does NOT matter if they have insurance -- if they wreck the car, or crash into someone in a vehicle owned by you -- it is your insurance policy and not theirs, unless they also are insured on THAT car. Geico requires almost 80% damage of the estimated value before totaling the car.

B) I left my silver M3 at the shop last night. That is what this thread is about and what I am doing with it -- lessons I learn, etc.

NOTE: Some tuners/companies may get upset with my frankness in this thread -- I apologize before-hand; but, just speaking my mind. Plus, I will not try to give away anything proprietary. This thread is to save people time ... headache, and possibly help them.

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The whole thing started when I noticed some coolant on the turbo inlet pipe into the main TB. It was a little spray. At first, we thought it was the water pump -- so, we replaced it. Then we replaced the entire cooling system ...

Then we added UV dye to the coolant and oil and noticed that my hg was slightly leaking. We decided to try and retorque the head bolts. Because the leak, well, it was really small. I mean, really small. We ran compression and leak tests. Compression was 180 in each cylinder and less than 3% leak. There was no white smoke -- there was no coolant smell. The oil/dipstick looked fine.

Then, I was driving at the ferrari event and decided to check my oil and coolant. I open up the coolant and see these little droplets that look oily. I'm like WTH ... but, then --- as some have noticed -- people on here say that BMW coolant AND weter wetter do not mix well and form this oily viscous material on the coolant surface. Well, only one way to find out for sure. I had my mechanic replace the coolant end tank with a brand new coolant end tank -- so, if there was oil leaking -- I could CLEARLY see it.

I then participated in an auto-x; and, by the end of the day -- I could see that it was OIL!!! It was very slow -- I would say about 4-5 droplets. My mechanic thought it was when the engine is cold and I start it up. The amazing thing about my HG issue -- everyone says -- oh, your car will run piss-poor, white smoke, white goo on your oil stick, etc. Maybe, I am lucky that I am pretty damn anal and check things every week pretty thoroughly. However, the car ran fine -- idled fine, nothing was amiss to even hint that the headgasket was a time bomb.

So, I began asking questions on here about HG's, and all sorts of stuff. Here are my notes so far:

*Headgaskets * 

If you want to lower your cr via headgasket. Everyone will say, use forged pistons -- GEE -- forged pistons for $850 moly-coated, why the hell didn't I think of that? Oh yeah, something about it being a VERY involved job -- it's HELLA expensive. I know a fully built motor is the way to go -- but, give me a break, AA has reliable kits and yes, I can't pull apart my engine ... so sue me. It's very expensive to do a bottom-end rebuild -- you are looking at probably AT LEAST $7K ... and downtime of at LEAST one month.

So, headgasket here I come. There are a couple of manners in which you can do it.

1) You can do it via AA. AA will instruct a couple of ways to do it. First, you can do it via a copper spacer that they sell and then use an aftermarket headgasket. Second, you can do it via a MLS gasket. This is the route I chose and not by choice ... AA is out of copper spacers at the moment and it would take 30-45 days to get in. Well, crap -- I do not feel like waiting that long. I'm pretty impetuous so ... keep that in mind when you read this. So, I went with the MLS hg. This is NOT a cheap option. The MLS system uses two stock hg's sandwhiching a metal layer (as the name implies). Parts alone will cost you approximately $650 following the MLS way. It's weird, a stock E36 M3 hg costs about $200 from BMW -- and the E30 hg only costs $15.00. Yeah, I said WTF as well!!!!

But, it seems Omer ran this on his 19 psi Mcoupe for 2-3 years. I am not going to boost anywhere near his levels ... so, I figured it should hold fairly well.

2) You can do it via BMP and AA. As mentioned above, you can order a 1.8 mm or 2.0 mm hg from BMP. It is a silicon-beaded something something which is 100 times better than a stock headgasket. However, absolutely NO ONE has this hg in stock right now. They have -16 on their screen (e.g., 16 orders are pending). This has been the case for the past 3 months. They do not expect any in until like the end of January. Only one company makes them for BMP. BMP sells them to many other companies -- so, it seems like everyone uses the BMP hg. If you have a turbo, go with the 2.0 mm hg and the AA copper spacer if you have a chance.

Alternatively, if you DO need to replace your HG ... the 2.0 mm BMP one will lower cr to around 9.5:1 -- from stock cr in S52 cars. However, preferably, you need an 8.5:1 ratio.

3) Copper headgaskets. Thanks to Eric (EMC), Mark W. (M3turbo), Pablo (Vader), etc ... they provided good links to copper headgaskets. However, I spoke with Karl -- and you can agree or disagree. He highly recommended NOT to use copper headgaskets. He said, "been there, done that" -- and who am I to say no to him??? There is an issue he said about it sitting and sealing on the head properly. Most of the places that make copper headgaskets make them to about 2.2 mm thick MAX ... thus, you would need two copper headgaskets ... which ... again, he said is a no-no. Copper headgaskets will run approximately $240 for one that is 0.094 inches thick. So, take that as you will.

*peripheral stuff needed for replacing headgasket*
a) You need head studs. BMW's head studs are designed to stretch. E.g., does not make the greatest seal. Plus, you cannot retorque them (makes you wonder what the hell my mechanic was thinking ehh??? ... yeah, me too ...) ... So, I decided BMW head stud bolts are not an option. Plus, since you are going with a thicker hg, they will not fit. IIRC, they are 10-11 mm long -- and with a 3.0+ thicker hg ... you get the picture.

b) So, I turned to Raceware and ARP. Unfortunately, ARP says they do not carry anything for the M50/M52/S50/S52 system. Perhaps they were lying; but, I said okay. I called Raceware ... they had the perfect ones I needed. They have ones specifically for a turbo BMW ... +8 mm in length ... so, pretty damn long. SWEET, I think. This costed me another $240 or so -- it was sent next day -- hey, what can I say, I'm impetuous. AFTER ordering them -- I speak with Karl and ...

Here's the catch:

He does NOT recommend the Raceware head stud kit. I forget the exact reasons -- but, he recommends another set of bolts. I know exactly what these bolts are and come from; but, since it might be proprietary -- I will not share. However, I was surprised. Now, I have a set of $240 bolts that are going to be paperweights, son of a .... so, the bolts that Karl recommends will set you back another $220+ ... Here that people ... you are now at $850+ JUST IN PARTS to replace the turbo headgasket ...

Raceware was also puzzled -- b/c we contacted them back and we were like can we return these ... and they are like, why?? We explain, and they do not agree at all ... but, hey ... we did not end up returning it because I would have to pay for overnight shipping and then for shipping it back, something like $60 or ridiculous -- so, I decided to keep them.

c) Everyone seems to agree though here, ... for once, I know. Pretty much, everyone agrees that a headgasket sealant should be used. Karl recommends the one from Caterpillar, I assume it is used on diesel engines. As Eric informed me, diesel engines see far more abuse/pressure than our cars .. so, the diesel sealant will work great. I think it is purple in color or something. WOOHOO -- cheap item -- something like $20.00 ... Now I am only at $870.00

*HEAD JOBS*
Not that type you perverts! ... But, well, everyone likes to throw out port and polish, 5 angle jobs, blah blah. I decided to investigate this much further. If people didn't know, IF you have a race car (which you will rebuild the engine every year or so -- then ignore everything I say and you probably are anyways ... hehe).

The 5 angle job for a street car is a little misleading. Some people call a 5 angle job when you do a 3 angle cut to the valves and a 2 angle cut to something else, I forget. So, a total of 5 cuts -- but this is DIFFERENT from a true 5 angle job. Make sure you get a true 5 angle cut ...

As you might know, S52/S50 engines come with a 3 angle cut already from the factory. However, if you step up to a 5 angle cut you can run into problems. First, you are cutting more material away and thus, the tolerances are MUCH smaller. For instance, less room for error and more room for things to go FUBAR. I decided that's not good. Second, on a street-driven car, it makes the car run a little rougher -- supposedly ... so, I decided, that's not good.

I am going with a 3 angle cut -- radius cut preferably ... something about machines doing it in one sweep rather than changing out bits, etc. Don't ask me, not 100% sure; but, hey, it sounded good so I was like OKAY ...

I may also go with a minor port and polish and gasket port-matching (thanks Eric for that tip). Depending on price -- M3 engines breathe really well -- not much more you can do to make it flow air better.

*Peripheral items to be done with head job*

1) From what I understand, the turbo needs to be removed. If you are going to upgrade -- do it NOW, or at least inspect the hoses, the lines, connections, turbo, etc ... I am heat-wrapping mine, and possibly upgrading, not 100% sure at this point which route I am going to take. A lot depends on cost of my head work, and how much my green M3 is going to suck out of me. But, you might want to clip the turbo at this point ... and heat-wrap it at minimum, replace all lines, etc. I would like to upgrade the mitsu-20g to a T60-1 compressor/20g backend and clip it for better efficiency. I probably will run only 15-17 lbs of boost max. More likely 16 lbs.

2) Valve springs and valve guides. Now, this is the other part I would ask you to pay attention. From what I understand, all BMW's experience valve float. Especially on f/i'ed BMW's, auto-x'ed ones, track ones, and basically, any car that is driven like it's supposed to be and not by some grandma/grandpa. My engine has 50K on it right now. I have heard that the WEAKEST part in our engines are these stupid ass valve springs. Not sure how much they are from BMW's... but, I decided to see what I could do to upgrade this part. Basically, this is the part that leads to bent valves if you do a mis-shift, money shift, etc ... and your valves WILL FLOAT ... I guarantee you f/i guys, track guys, etc ... So, with your head off ... consider this work definitely!

Now, there are four companies that sell these parts.

a) BMP -- Yup, you guessed it -- they do not have it in stock. Go figure -- they never have what I want in stock but plenty of clear lights, angel eyes, rims etc. (hear that BMP!! --you lost a lot of business because of this!!!). They sell them $299.95 for the set. However, these are only stiffer SINGLE valve springs. They said it would allow you rev up to 8000K rpm's. Cool.

BUT, you ALSO need their titanium valve retainers which costs $375.00. The valve springs will NOT fit stock retainers. So, you end up spending almost $700.00 for this upgrade. They had neither part in stock ... it comes from Germany they said ... and so, this was moot. It would take 10-12 weeks ... well, forget that ...

b) Turner motorsports -- they also sell a valve spring kit. Comes with shims/BMW motorsport retainers (not titanium) and a single valve spring (stiffer than OE). The kit is $886.00. This would also allow you to rev up to 8K rpm's. However, they did not have this in stock either (upgrade your damn website then!!!! -- grrrr) ... and the person had NO CLUE on how long it would take.... gee thanks for the customer support there fella!

c) VAC motorsports -- they sell a dual valve spring kit. WOOHOO -- dual valves means if one spring fails, another spring is there to save your ass. PLUS, these dual valve springs allow you to rev up to 12K rpm's . They come as a complete kit with titanium retainers, shims, 24 springs, etc... as well for $999.00. They actually have this in stock, supposedly ... I am double-checking later.

d) Of course, can't forget our good buddies at AA ... and you know of course the price ... higher than everyone. They also sell double-valve springs. The price is $1200. I will probably go with VAC ... if I do this modification.

Again, keep this in mind .. if you DO go with upgraded springs/retainers -- most likely you will need to shave some off the head = more money to your head job. It's not just a drop-in part here, you need to get it to your head shop and they need to do the head work to make all of these things fit properly ... so, another consideration. Then again, we have conflicting reports of whether to use titanium retainers on street driven cars -- everyone has an opinion ...

*Prices involved with all of this crap*

_PARTS_

1) head job = around $1200
2) headgasket parts alone = $870 
3) upgraded springs/retainers = $1K
4) head stud kit = $220+

_LABOR_

1) remove and replace head = about 8-10 hours

2) unknown at this point ...

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I'll update this as I go along with other things that I do, prices involved, and things I find out.

As you can see -- for those that are complaining about the price of a supercharger, turbo, PD charger, etc ... you have to realize ... once you start to play, YOU MUST be ready to pay for it. Consider additional costs in case something goes wrong. I know there are many people here that are great without problems.

I had 2 years+ and over 30K miles on my kit. So, my headgasket was failing with stock head bolts ... maybe you should keep that in mind when you look at a used f/i kit or wondering if you should do it.

Hopefully, this is not going to cost me an arm and a leg -- but, you guys can easily see how it will cost.

Sorry for being so long, hopefully my information will help people and save you time.


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## jderry (Sep 24, 2002)

Well, I guess I can give a small update. I went to my mechanic's yesterday and took a look at the head, pistons, etc. He said there was no water/coolant leaking into the block = which I assume is a good thing. He was trying to explain what he thought happened -- but, I kind of spaced out on him ... to much technical jargon. 

Anyway, everything looked good -- he was trying to explain about the cylinder walls, cams, etc ... but, I said, "does this mean it will cost me less money," his response, "yes ... the engine looks really good." -- GREAT -- that's all I care to hear ... so with less work involved -- I can get it up and running by next week for the HPDE: maybe! 

I decided to not purchase the VAC dual valve springs or upgraded springs for a couple of reasons: 

a) $1000 for it; and 

b) new O.E. BMW springs are $6+/ each for 24 and O.E. retainers are like $1+/each. (I might have the prices flipped around).

Thus, I can save a good chunk of change there. Replacing the valve springs (50K) with new ones should be good insurance as well. I will find out after pressure testing the head if it's good and we'll see how much a pnp will cost me. 

I have also decided to upgrade a few more components:

a) I decided to order a wideband O2 sensor and have it installed -- can never be to safe about afr's with a f/i'ed engine. 

b) I have also decided since I track the car -- I am going to upgrade to the MZ3 radiator. From what I understand, it's a direct fit ... don't get the S54 radiator from the E46 ... FWIW -- the one you want has these two things on the bottom or something where it mounts perfectly -- e.g., don't need custom mounting. 

The MZ3 has an extra row ... so 3 rows vs. 2 rows of stock S52. I know some will say -- plastic end tanks, blahblah ... get the aluminum radiator. The PWR - for $450.00 I've heard has fitment issues. The fluidyne and others are around $659.00 ... The MZ3 is half that price at $310.00 -- so MUCH cheaper. Plus, I just want to compare how much more cooling effect it has. I'll let you guys know. Plus, you can now add an oil cooler pretty easily if you want ... 

c) I dislike where my intake is on the car. As you might know, AA relocates it to the passenger side by the passenger head light. I want something cold air and possibly relocate it near the brake duct. So, I asked my mechanic to build me one ... we'll see how that goes. 

d) Unfortunately, there are a bunch of little little crap rubber hoses that are going to cost me money ... I figured with 50K -- can't hurt to replace little rubber hoses, fuel line in the engine bay, etc ... because some of these can be a PITA to replace in the future. So, this was an unexpected expense. Not sure which hoses or how much yet ... I just told my mechanic to replace the ones he sees fit or recommends. 

e) I asked him to heatwrap and place heat shields all over the engine bay to deflect heat down and away from the car. So, we'll see if this helps at all.

f) I also asked him to hook up the auxiliary fans to a switch .. you know, the ones that kick on when you have the a/c on ... this way, I always can have two fans going. I currently have a huge SPAL fan that is on continuously ... but, can never have to much airflow into the engine, right? Especially ... cooler air.

Well ... that's it for today.


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Wheh . . . I made it through. Thanks for sharing.


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## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

Cool James 

One thing to remember about stiffer valve springs is that you are increasing the parasitic drag due to the valvetrain. Equals less power. I know you decided not to change them anyway. I think you made the right decision, unless you're going to build a race motor which is going to see a lot of continuous high-RPM use. 

As for the multi angle valve job, I doubt it would be worthwhile on a car with a pretty good head to begin with. There is no reason a multi-angle or radius valve cut should increase the way the car runs in day to day activity... basically what you're doing is trying to increase flow by smoothly bending the transition from the port into the valve. That's all.

As for a port and polish, it depends on where you're doing it. Polishing the ports in the head is not something I'd really reccommend. Best to leave the ports rough-cast to keep a laminar flow through the port. The turbulence created by the surface roughness helps mixing which helps torque. Gasket matching is a good idea, though. 

Have fun, don't spend too much money..

john


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