# Lies, Fraud and Theft of a dealer and CPO!



## F10 4 ME (Jul 7, 2014)

Sorry for the long read. I really would like some advice here.

Prior to recently purchasing an 18 month old 2013 550i 6MT with low mileage, the salesman and I test drove the car. The car seemed to struggle in 2nd gear and lacked any real power. The salesman said he would have the service manager (SM) test drive it. The following day the salesman told me that the SM said the transmission needed to be replaced (still under the new car warranty). After I questioned this the salesman said you will be getting a new transmission and the car will be like new. I also insisted that they CPO the car. With a new transmission and a thorough inspection prior to the CPO I thought it would be a car in good order and warrantied to 100,000 miles. I was told that the CPO would cost an additional $2,850. The car also required new tires for which I requested low profile high performance tires, and negotiated to split the increased cost with the dealer which cost me an additional $1,000. Since the transmission was new it was ordered from Germany and took 5 weeks to get here. In the interim the salesman and I negotiated the final price including all the add-ons. When the car was ready to be delivered he told me that the car was test driven by a technician from BMW Headquarters, and that they had reprogrammed the car. I also purchased the extended maintenance agreement to 100,000 miles. With the CPO warranty and extended maintenance I thought I would not have to worry about the car for almost 100,000 miles.
I took delivery on a Friday morning. Getting the insurance cleared and DMV plates seemed to take forever. With preapproved financing what should have taken a few minutes took many hours. I finally left the dealer around 1PM and drove home through the side roads to my house. Then to my office through traffic. Finally on Saturday morning looking forward to driving the car I got onto the highway towards work. The car still had no “guts” and at around 60-70 miles the car really shuddered. I called my salesman who said that service was too busy on Saturday, let’s deal with it on Monday. I called him late Monday afternoon. He said he was off on Tuesday but would get with the service manager on Wednesday. By Wednesday I could not handle the drive anymore and sent him a text, requesting to get me a loaner (which usually requires 2 weeks advance booking) and that I would be in that afternoon. 
I was informed by my service advisor (SA) that the car needed to be reprogrammed and that they were going to download the program/settings from Germany. They would also reset all the prior owners “learned” settings so that the car would be reset back to the factory settings. After a few days I picked up the car. As far as I was concerned there was no noticeable change to the operation of the vehicle. 
I took the car back to the dealer. The SA said that they would have the senior technician drive the car and report back to me. I believe it was 2 days later that the SA called me. He told me the car was misfiring on the 3 cylinders and that they were going to replace all 8 spark plugs, 8 injectors and some other part. They also said that there were 2 bent wheels that they were going to repair. I questioned why this was not picked up in the CPO certification. No real answers there. I received the car back on a Friday afternoon, and again just drove it in slow Friday evening traffic. 
Off to work I go on Saturday and am again on the highway. This time the car now has the “guts” that you would expect from this 4.4L 400HP engine. However the shudder was still there at around 60 – 70 mph. On Monday I called the salesman who arranged a loaner for me for Tuesday morning. I dropped the car off Tuesday morning. Later that day the SA calls me to tell me that the wheels need to be repaired again. I question the wisdom of this. He agreed with me that the wheels are light to start and that repairing them twice leaves them vulnerable to the slightest bump and damage and is therefore not safe. He told me he recommends replacing the wheels and will note that in my file. 
At some point throughout this ordeal my salesman mentioned to me that he was told by service that the car would need a new clutch soon and that I should drive it for about 5,000 miles so that service could get BMW to replace it. But not to worry he said, because you also have the extended maintenance agreement to 100,000 miles.
I told the SA that since the car had recently been CPO’d I will insist on nothing less than 4 new wheels and that at this stage since the car is going to be there, please have the cutch replaced as mentioned by my salesman. This was during the week prior to the Memorial Day weekend. He told me "sales" was refusing to replace the wheels at their expense. I did not hear back from them until Tuesday after the long weekend. Again they said they would not replace the wheels. No mention of the clutch. I refused this and told him to talk with the Sales Manager. Then silence. I called Wednesday morning and had to leave a voicemail. On Wednesday evening I called my SA and got his voicemail. I called back and asked the receptionist not to put me into his voicemail but to please give him my name and number and to please have him call me before he leaves. I called back after 6PM and was told that after receiving my message he left for the day. I asked for the SM, who was busy. I asked the receptionist to please give him my name and number and not to put me in his voicemail. I did not hear back from him. The following day I called my salesman who said he would look into it. He called back later to tell me that the SA was embarrassed by the situation and did not want to talk with me, but that he would when he was free. He did call later that day. I asked to speak with the SM. No call back. On Friday morning I texted my salesman and told him that I was contacting BMW NA. By noon no one had called me so, I called BMW NA. A very nice gentleman listened to my story and gave the usual line “I am really sorry sir, but your issue is with the dealer”. So I asked him “with the CPO I have could I take it to any dealer? “Yes sir, it is backed by BMW NA so any dealer will work”. Under those conditions I said it is BMW NA’s problem as they are responsible for their agent’s actions as they assumed liability when they took on the CPO warranty. He said “Hold on I will get you a resolution specialist”. Now whether there are actual Resolution Specialists or just a colleague sitting next to him I do not know, but this very nice gentleman came on the line and listened to the whole story again. He said I will call the dealer and get back to you in a few days. That Friday the dealer called telling me the wheels were repaired and they would like their loaner back. I left a voicemail for the resolution specialist. I did not hear from him on Monday or Tuesday. By Wednesday I was getting a little anxious being ignored, so I called BMW NA again. This time the lady answering the phone would not put me through to my resolution specialist and would not provide me his email address. You would think that I could get more information to him, but no. I asked for his fax number. Why, the lady asked. I replied that I would like my attorney to write to him. You are represented by an attorney she asked. I replied as of this moment I will let my attorney handle this. I am not an attorney just a CPA.
Thursday and Friday we drafted a letter to both BMW NA and the dealer via its corporate owner. The letter was sent via fax and certified mail. The following Monday we heard from BMW NA. They listened to my attorney and told him they would investigate this. By Wednesday they reported back to him say that the CPO was taken on a verbal and that they had no paper work on the actual test etc. and as a one-time exception BMW NA would offer to pay some of his fees and replace the wheels with 4 new ones. When he questioned the clutch he was told that he must deal with the dealerships General Manager. Me attorney called the General Manager and for 3 days got no reply. BMW NA followed up with my attorney who explained that he still had not heard from the General Manager. She told him that she would follow up. That Thursday afternoon the General Manager and Service Manager together called my attorney and detailed their version of the situation stating that there is now way they would have known about the clutch as they did NOT replace the transmission. My attorney suggested that the Service Manager the General Manager my attorney and I meet the following Monday to discuss this. My attorney called me and told me how I had been taken and that the salesman that I had bought cars from since 1992 had lied to me. He did not think I had much to go on here. I told him to look through the papers I had given him. When I bought the car I requested proof that in fact they had replaced the transmission with a new one. The 1st piece of paper my salesman gave me was the car’s detail history. That had one line about 2nd gear. I explained to my salesman that that was not good enough for me. He then went to service and produced a detailed 2 page work order detailing the exchange and replacement of the transmission along with the requisite transmission oil etc. On Monday we met with the Service Manager and the General Manager. My attorney asked them to repeat their story as he said it was best I heard it direct from them. At 1st there was silence, but after being prompted again the General Manager stated that no one in the dealership would have the authority to approve an $11,000 repair to replace a transmission. I looked at him and then at the Service Manager who again repeated that in fact they did NOT replace the transmission and therefore could not have known that the clutch needed replacing. I then went on to tell them how I bought my 1st BMW here in 1992 and subsequently negotiated my next one but stupidly bought it elsewhere to save $500. I did not like the attitude of the 2nd dealer at all. Then a few years ago I bought my third one from the same salesman, and in December I ordered and had built my wife’s X3 from him. However because of a drastic difference in her trade-in price I had to buy another X3 from another dealer, and when I was in the market again (this time for the 550i) I contacted the same salesman. And when my colleague took over my current lease I introduced him to the salesman so that he had someone to deal with at the end of the lease. At this stage I was getting a little anxious and suggested that my attorney finish the story. He asked them how work is done in the shop. Every job no matter how small has to have a work order they said. So he produced the printout of my texts to and from the salesman about the transmission and where they were at each stage, and the showed them the work order. The Service Manager read the work order and stated that they HAD in fact changed the transmission. My attorney also asked the Service Manager “based on the need to change the spark plugs and injectors only days after the CPO certification you could not have done the CPO testing?” The Service Manager replied that they did NOT do the CPO certification testing.

I have managed to obtain a copy of the 2013 CPO operating manual for CPO centers. The 94 page document makes for very interesting reading. The dealer is supposed to replace the tires at the dealers cost and not charge the customer. If wheel issues are found they are to replace the wheels NOT repair them. And most importantly the dealer cannot charge the customer for the CPO certification and warranty! If I read it correctly once a car is offered as USED it cannot be offered as a CPO in negotiation with the customer.

I thought it would be interesting to get your feedback. Thanks for reading.


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## boston535 (Jun 3, 2014)

My thoughts: when you have an attorney involved, do not post about the issue publicly. At all.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

F10 4 ME said:


> Sorry for the long read. I really would like some advice here.
> 
> Prior to recently purchasing an 18 month old 2013 550i 6MT with low mileage, the salesman and I test drove the car. The car seemed to struggle in 2nd gear and lacked any real power. The salesman said he would have the service manager (SM) test drive it. The following day the salesman told me that the SM said the transmission needed to be replaced (still under the new car warranty). After I questioned this the salesman said you will be getting a new transmission and the car will be like new. I also insisted that they CPO the car. With a new transmission and a thorough inspection prior to the CPO I thought it would be a car in good order and warrantied to 100,000 miles. I was told that the CPO would cost an additional $2,850. The car also required new tires for which I requested low profile high performance tires, and negotiated to split the increased cost with the dealer which cost me an additional $1,000. Since the transmission was new it was ordered from Germany and took 5 weeks to get here. In the interim the salesman and I negotiated the final price including all the add-ons. When the car was ready to be delivered he told me that the car was test driven by a technician from BMW Headquarters, and that they had reprogrammed the car. I also purchased the extended maintenance agreement to 100,000 miles. With the CPO warranty and extended maintenance I thought I would not have to worry about the car for almost 100,000 miles.
> I took delivery on a Friday morning. Getting the insurance cleared and DMV plates seemed to take forever. With preapproved financing what should have taken a few minutes took many hours. I finally left the dealer around 1PM and drove home through the side roads to my house. Then to my office through traffic. Finally on Saturday morning looking forward to driving the car I got onto the highway towards work. The car still had no "guts" and at around 60-70 miles the car really shuddered. I called my salesman who said that service was too busy on Saturday, let's deal with it on Monday. I called him late Monday afternoon. He said he was off on Tuesday but would get with the service manager on Wednesday. By Wednesday I could not handle the drive anymore and sent him a text, requesting to get me a loaner (which usually requires 2 weeks advance booking) and that I would be in that afternoon.
> ...


What dealer are you using? Good luck
cheers
vern


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## F10 4 ME (Jul 7, 2014)

Vern,
At this stage I feel it is only correct to leave the dealers information out of the discussion.
I am facing and am prepared to pay serious costs regarding a potential law suit that could drag on for a while and was hopeful that someone may have encountered a similar situation and found a different approach to solving the issue.
If I cannot resolve the issue to my satisfaction and have to resolve to a judge and jury then once the law suit is filed and public I will bring out further details.


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## Carbon Fiver (Aug 5, 2013)

good luck. and next time please use paragraphs. So the Service Manager stated they didn't replace the trans, then you showed them their own work order stating it was done?


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## F10 4 ME (Jul 7, 2014)

mness, that is correct. Both the Service Manager and General Manager on 2 occasions told us that they had not replaced the transmission and therefore could not have seen the clutch. My salesman gave me the work orders when I bought and took delivery of the vehicle.

Sorry for the poor formatting, I copied and pasted the post from a word document and the process deleted the blank lines in between each paragraph.


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## guyver626 (Mar 5, 2013)

Hi F104ME

What exactly do you want the dealer and BMW NA to do? Are you looking for a refund? A new car? What exactly are your expectations? Hope it all works out for you on the end. Look luck! 


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

F10 4 ME said:


> Vern,
> At this stage I feel it is only correct to leave the dealers information out of the discussion.
> I am facing and am prepared to pay serious costs regarding a potential law suit that could drag on for a while and was hopeful that someone may have encountered a similar situation and found a different approach to solving the issue.
> If I cannot resolve the issue to my satisfaction and have to resolve to a judge and jury then once the law suit is filed and public I will bring out further details.


Thanks for the reply,very understandable. Just sounds like one of the dealers I'm familiar with.Good luck
cheers
vern


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## Car Fan (Mar 10, 2013)

What you describe appears to be an elaborate scam on the salesman's part. Does he remain on staff? I'd really be surprised if you're the only one that he's done this with. If I were you I'd discuss with my attorney methods to find a couple of similarly situated individuals. 

It is disappointing that at a BMW dealership you'd find this kind of behavior. In fact it is the deception mindset that I've sought to avoid by buying BMW's to start with. 

Good luck with your effort and pls keep us posted.


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

car fan said:


> what you describe appears to be an elaborate scam on the salesman's part. Does he remain on staff? I'd really be surprised if you're the only one that he's done this with. If i were you i'd discuss with my attorney methods to find a couple of similarly situated individuals.
> 
> It is disappointing that at a bmw dealership you'd find this kind of behavior. In fact it is the deception mindset that i've sought to avoid by buying bmw's to start with.
> 
> Good luck with your effort and pls keep us posted.


+1


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## F10 4 ME (Jul 7, 2014)

Here is an update. 
Received a call from the BMW NA representative early last week offering to replace all 4 wheels on the car (this should have been done as part of the CPO) and some money towards my attorneys fees. When my attorney explained that at this stage we were no longer interested in taking the car back she said that we would have to deal with the dealer and that I was not entitled to a new car. My attorney then explained to her what had transpired over the last few days with his call and our meeting with both the General Manager and Service Manager, how they both had lied about the transmission and that the Service Manager had admitted that the CPO inspection had not been completed. She said that she would get back to the dealer and then back to my attorney. Two days later she called back to say that BMW NA would offer money towards my attorney fees (which by then were way in excess of what they were offering) and that they were in agreement with what the dealer was going to be offering me. My attorney and I received a letter from the dealer this Monday stating that in fact they HAD replaced the transmission and that there was nothing wrong with the clutch. If there was a problem with the clutch then it would have been replaced. He stated that my car had been repaired in accordance with BMW standards on 06/20 and was ready to be picked, that new wheels had been placed on the car along with new tires that were installed prior to me buying the car. I was told that I will be liable for a $50 per day charge for the use of their loaner. They were also prepared to offer me $6,000 to take the car or that they will repurchase the car from me and offer me an additional $3,000.
He also stated that it took me 12 days and 450 miles to complain about the wheels. 
So let see, which set of lies should I believe. Firstly, I called the salesman the very next day and complained about the drive-ability of the car. It was their diagnosis that a wheel needed to be repaired 5 days later, not mine. And secondly, either they lied earlier about the transmission to cover up the clutch issue, or they are lying now in stating that the clutch is OK. Or maybe they have repaired the clutch without telling us. They did not address the CPO issue.
My attorney wrote back highlighting their inconsistencies, stating again that they had admitted the CPO certification had not taken place based on the work orders we have in hand and requested all work orders pertaining to the car since April 1, 2014 along with the original signed/dated CPO inspection report. At which time I will return their loaner. He also told them that there offer was insufficient. It nowhere near covers my costs to date. We have not heard back. Hopefully by now they will have brought this to the attention of the dealerships auto group holding company and their attorney.


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## drstein (Jul 23, 2013)

Certainly a longshot, but you may find that when you deem appropriate, naming the Dealer here may bring members forward who also had issues with said Dealer


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## Leenacoupe (Jun 24, 2014)

Read the whole story, wow... How disappointing... Hope it all gets resolved


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## drstein (Jul 23, 2013)

I thought I did, and yes it is, I hope so too......


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## Cpbmw32082 (Jul 10, 2014)

If you bought car and repairs were a condition of the sale of car why not just return car and get your money back and move on to another car. Naming the dealer in every review site along with salesman and gm will certainly effect reputation especially if there are multiple dealerships in your area. Negative PR will be more costly to them. Just think if they lose 3-5 customers because of reviews they may want rethink how they deal with issues. We are in a online world now and reviews are very powerful both positive and negative. I used them for restaurants, products,etc... At this point you are helping out others who may go to same dealership


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## F10 4 ME (Jul 7, 2014)

Just a stunning update.
As I mentioned last post my attorney last Wednesday responded to their request for return of the loaner by requesting copies of all the work orders done to the car since April 1st and a copy of the signed CPO certification work papers, then we would hand over the loaner. Since I own the car and paid for the CPO I should be entitled to this as a matter of fact.
I received a call from their local police station a short while ago. The officer was very polite and explained that I was holding onto a loaner car against the dealers policy. I asked the officer if he had been explained the history up too this point in time. He had not heard any of the story at all other than the fact that I had not returned a loaner. He listened to the detail story and said that I obviously have some form of legal claim, but since my car had been repaired per the dealer I should return the loaner. I explained that that was our intention when my attorney requested the documentation last Wednesday, but have not heard back from the dealer. I also explained that the dealer may believe that the car is repaired according to their standards, but as has been show in the past this has not proven to be accurate once I drove the car after its service.
At this stage I cannot imagine that the General Manager has reported this to the dealers ownership, or to their attorney. Their attorney would not have allowed him to write directly to me once I was represented by an attorney.
Rather than dealing with me respectfully or through an attorney he decides that it best to report me to the local police station like am some kind of common car thief. That may be the dealers method of operating but it is not mine.


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## Cpbmw32082 (Jul 10, 2014)

Wow story just getting better and better. Take them to the cleaners. Where I live the local new eats this stuff up. Maybe a tv reporter showing up at the dealership to explain to the camera why they are deceiving you and selling you a fake cpo would motivate them


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## shadowyman (Jun 10, 2013)

Wow this is a helluva story. I am definitely interested in the story and the name of the dealer which is responsible for this. I'd have already taken them to court if it were mere but I guess this is also what you're trying to do, gathering documentation to pursue this. Good luck OP. I recommend cross post his this to dealer feedback and the respective model forum. This needs more attention and public shunning.


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## quackbury (Dec 17, 2005)

I agree you are in a very bad situation through no fault of your own. But like others, I am wondering: what are you hoping for as a resolution?

Do you want the car (pretty rare to find a 550 6MT) repaired, CPO'ed and working properly? Do you want your money back and the deal unwound? Or do you want the emotional thrill of putting on your superhero cape and beating the dealership into submission?

Your attorney may be the nicest guy in the world, but he's on the clock and he has no financial incentive to wrap this up quickly. The more you dilly and dally, the more the dealership stalls, the bigger his fee.

While you view the car and the problems as a really BIG DEAL, in the dealer's eyes it is just another used car. There are many, many stories of CPO's not really going through the process. It's not right, but it happens, and you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking it doesn't. *You had every right to take the car for an extended test drive and make sure it was perfect BEFORE you signed the purchase contract. In retrospect, not doing so was a very expensive mistake*.

If the repairs were completed, you really have no legal right to hold the loaner car hostage. The dealer is well within its rights insisting that it be returned, and you are potentially risking civil and criminal penalties if you don't. Why? Is it worth putting your CPA license at risk just to make a point?

BMWNA is not a party to this clusterf*ck; it is strictly between you and the dealer. You did not buy a NEW car, you bought a USED car, and BMW's only role was to sell you an extended (CPO) warranty. I think they are being extraordinarly helpful in working with you, but you really need to resolve this on your own.

My advice: At the end of the day, it's just a car. You made a big mistake by not making sure it was perfect before you bought it. Decide what you want, make it happen, and move on with your life.


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## quackbury (Dec 17, 2005)

PS: Does your attorney know you have posted this thread? You are really exposing yourself to litigation by alleging "Lies, Fraud and Theft". I certainly hope you do NOT name the dealer in this thread, because I fear doing so is going to generate a lot of work - and a lot of billable hours - for your attorney, defending you from the slander and defamation of character suit. Take a deep breath before you do anything else really stupid.


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