# 330i broke down



## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

1. Shell gasoline? - oh they fixed that and you don't live in a southern state.

2. Contaminated gasoline (water in the fuel)?

3. Bad flywheel sensor?

Please let us know when you discover the problem.


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## rwg (May 10, 2002)

Four years on the battery in Minnesota? It's probably the battery. Not sure why it wouldn't jump, but maybe it was just really, really dead.

four to five years is an average battery life for most cars in the cold climates and it has nothing to do with "bad engineering."


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

rwg said:


> Four years on the battery in Minnesota? It's probably the battery. Not sure why it wouldn't jump, but maybe it was just really, really dead.


But if the charging system is intact, the car should still run, if the jump has enough juice to crank it, no? I started the old Miata on a dead (shorted and drained to nothing) battery with a jump, and drove it to get a new one...



bluskye said:


> Yeah, unfortunately, there's another term: bad engineering.


I'd call that bad use of a car. Short little-charge trips shouldn't be the norm of use.


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## snagger (May 28, 2004)

Do you have auto (light-sensing, not adaptive) headlights? (were they available on '01s? I'm new)

I had three bimmers between friends and family, and last summer their batteries all went dead within a week of one another. The thing they all had in common was automatic headlights. Of the two that were E46s, I believe the dealer installed a firmware fix for the feature and sent the owners on their way. Might check into it if your troubles aren't just a plain old dead battery.


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## mrtm2008 (Oct 24, 2003)

rwg said:


> Four years on the battery in Minnesota? It's probably the battery. Not sure why it wouldn't jump, but maybe it was just really, really dead.
> 
> four to five years is an average battery life for most cars in the cold climates and it has nothing to do with "bad engineering."


Engineering isn't the problem. All new cars, especially luxury cars, all do the same thing...still draw voltage after car is turned off. It all has to do with the quality of the battery, the battery's chemistry & the condition of the battery and all it's uses. A battery is basically 64% water & 36% Sulfuric Acid (electrolyte). Electicity is created by the movement of electons, so when the battery's (+) & (-) sides become one circuit, electrons move from the electolyte to the plates & on through the circuit. As the electons are moving to the plates, the plates start to build up sulfides until their are no more electons to move & the plates are completely sulfated. When you charge the battery, you cause more electons to return to the battery, thus breaking down the sulfated plates so that the electrolyte will return to it's normal mixture of water & sulfuric acid. One thing that most poeple are not aware of is that a dirty battery top allows for voltage to also be drawn out the surfce, thus called surface discharge. This also doesn't help with the battery life.

There are 2 types of charging procedures for batteries...slow or trickle chargers & fast chargers. Most of us use the fast chargers. Unfortunately the reason that battery life still isn't that long with fast chargers is that not all of the sulfate is removed from the plates, thus not allowing the battery to fully charge to it's full potential. Now the trickle charger will bring a battery back to full charge, but will take up to if not as long as 48 hours. I've been told & seen it for myself that especially at dealerships, they find batteries that are dead & just dispose of them & not knowing if they took the time to trickle charge them, they would have all fully charged batteries. Hint: If you get yourelf a trickle charger & find yourself friendly with a dealership that tosses pretty new batteries...you got yourself good batteries for free. Techs I know have brought them home, trickle charged them & either used them for themselves or sold them for cheap. the dealerships thought they were dead & let them take the batteries for free.

Anyway, you'd be surprised that out here in AZ & similar climates battery life will only be about 1 year! It has some to do with engineering, but mostly to do with other factors, such as weather (temperature), type of useage, etc.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Tim, if the dealer ends up replacing the battery under warranty, I'd be curious to see if it's one of the new ones that's supposedly an AGM (same as Optima) type instead of the old-school 'water' type.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50935


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## rwg (May 10, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> But if the charging system is intact, the car should still run, if the jump has enough juice to crank it, no? I started the old Miata on a dead (shorted and drained to nothing) battery with a jump, and drove it to get a new one...


I don't know why, but I have encountered cars that would not jump several times in recent years. One time trickle charging (2 amp charger for about 36 hours) did the trick (fast charging with a "power boost" or something for starting and normal jumping would not make it work) and another time required a new battery. One vehicle was a mini-van and I think the other was a pickup. Both times, no other repairs were necessary. So, in theory, I would have agreed with you. Experience says otherwise. :dunno:


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

rwg said:


> I don't know why, but I have encountered cars that would not jump several times in recent years. One time trickle charging (2 amp charger for about 36 hours) did the trick (fast charging with a "power boost" or something for starting and normal jumping would not make it work) and another time required a new battery. One vehicle was a mini-van and I think the other was a pickup. Both times, no other repairs were necessary. So, in theory, I would have agreed with you. Experience says otherwise. :dunno:


Proper fuel delivery and ignition requires voltages within a particular spec. Outside that range, the ECU will not open the injectors or spark the coils. The ECU has a specific portion of it's hardware/software devoted to power monitoring and management.

So it is quite possible to have enough voltage/current to turn the starter, but not enough for the ECU to fire up the motor.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Sorry everyone, I actually had a trip planned and had to leave only a couple hours after the car broke down. I just got back last night so I have no update on the car.

The reason I jumped the car from my truck was because the battery in the bmw was dead. It cranks just fine, but simply will not start.

I have never had any previous issue with my battery and it being drained. I have left my car for 20 plus days and it fires right up. I believe that some of the battery drainage issues came from later build climate controls.

Any ways I am calling the dealer, most likely tomorrow and have it looked at. I will update this thread once i have some answers.

Tim


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

I have had out of town company and have not had time to deal with my car. Monday it should go into the dealership.

Updates to come.

Tim


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

RKT BMR said:


> Proper fuel delivery and ignition requires voltages within a particular spec. Outside that range, the ECU will not open the injectors or spark the coils. The ECU has a specific portion of it's hardware/software devoted to power monitoring and management.
> 
> So it is quite possible to have enough voltage/current to turn the starter, but not enough for the ECU to fire up the motor.


Interesting, this makes a lot of sense. I have never heard of a case where a dead battery alone is enough to prevent a car from starting (With a jump). I would think that if the ECU is doing something to prevent the car from starting it would set a fault code and possibly display a warning light?


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

robg said:


> Interesting, this makes a lot of sense. I have never heard of a case where a dead battery alone is enough to prevent a car from starting (With a jump). I would think that if the ECU is doing something to prevent the car from starting it would set a fault code and possibly display a warning light?


This happened to me with my Mustang, the battery was completely dead. When jumped the car would run really rough for 15 seconds and die. After having the car towed to the shop they tested the charging system and everything checked out fine, replaced the battery and everything was okay. The mechanic told me with the newer cars the electrical load is so great the car needs a battery that can hold a charge for it to run properly. So if the battery is so dead it will not hold a charge the car will not run.

At least that what he told me.


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## rruiter (Feb 10, 2004)

mrtm2004 said:


> Engineering isn't the problem. All new cars, especially luxury cars, all do the same thing...still draw voltage after car is turned off. It all has to do with the quality of the battery, the battery's chemistry & the condition of the battery and all it's uses. A battery is basically 64% water & 36% Sulfuric Acid (electrolyte). Electicity is created by the movement of electons, so when the battery's (+) & (-) sides become one circuit, electrons move from the electolyte to the plates & on through the circuit. As the electons are moving to the plates, the plates start to build up sulfides until their are no more electons to move & the plates are completely sulfated. When you charge the battery, you cause more electons to return to the battery, thus breaking down the sulfated plates so that the electrolyte will return to it's normal mixture of water & sulfuric acid. One thing that most poeple are not aware of is that a dirty battery top allows for voltage to also be drawn out the surfce, thus called surface discharge. This also doesn't help with the battery life.
> 
> There are 2 types of charging procedures for batteries...slow or trickle chargers & fast chargers. Most of us use the fast chargers. Unfortunately the reason that battery life still isn't that long with fast chargers is that not all of the sulfate is removed from the plates, thus not allowing the battery to fully charge to it's full potential. Now the trickle charger will bring a battery back to full charge, but will take up to if not as long as 48 hours. I've been told & seen it for myself that especially at dealerships, they find batteries that are dead & just dispose of them & not knowing if they took the time to trickle charge them, they would have all fully charged batteries. Hint: If you get yourelf a trickle charger & find yourself friendly with a dealership that tosses pretty new batteries...you got yourself good batteries for free. Techs I know have brought them home, trickle charged them & either used them for themselves or sold them for cheap. the dealerships thought they were dead & let them take the batteries for free.
> 
> Anyway, you'd be surprised that out here in AZ & similar climates battery life will only be about 1 year! It has some to do with engineering, but mostly to do with other factors, such as weather (temperature), type of useage, etc.


1 year ? My experience is 2 years. 1 year maybe if you don't use the car daily.
I just hooked up my dad with a low current charger for his car. He sometimes doesn't drive it for weeks and had empty batteries all the time. I bought him a battery tender, hooked up the permanent cable with connector to the battery and he's happy now. These things are fire-and-forget. Hook them up and leave them alone. They manage themselves. If battery is full they will go to a very low charge,keeping the battery full. I have a battery minder for my motorcycle that I dont' ride much in summer (AZ, too hot).
Works very well, battery lasts much longer also.


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## rruiter (Feb 10, 2004)

Artslinger said:


> This happened to me with my Mustang, the battery was completely dead. When jumped the car would run really rough for 15 seconds and die. After having the car towed to the shop they tested the charging system and everything checked out fine, replaced the battery and everything was okay. The mechanic told me with the newer cars the electrical load is so great the car needs a battery that can hold a charge for it to run properly. So if the battery is so dead it will not hold a charge the car will not run.
> 
> At least that what he told me.


sounds fishy. That would mean the car uses more electricity than it can provide thru the alternator. Not the case. Once the engine is running, the only thing the battery is used for is for voltage fluctuations. Never run an engine without a battery hooked up.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

rruiter said:


> sounds fishy. That would mean the car uses more electricity than it can provide thru the alternator. Not the case. Once the engine is running, the only thing the battery is used for is for voltage fluctuations. Never run an engine without a battery hooked up.


Well I have no idea why the car would not run then. The battery was dead I jumped it a couple of times and the thing would not run. After the battery change the car ran fine, and for a year after that until I sold the car. :dunno:


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## gek330i (Dec 27, 2001)

tim330i said:


> I have had out of town company and have not had time to deal with my car. Monday it should go into the dealership.
> 
> Updates to come.
> 
> Tim


I'm curious as to what they found wrong. Any updates?


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

My wild stab in the dark: dead ignition control module


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Going to meet with the service manager tomorrow...hope to have updates shortly.

Tim


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## dynosor (Jul 15, 2003)

*Battery can be broken internally*


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Still dealing with this issue internally at the dealership. I am going to hold off from posting any more until I have a chance to work it out.

Tim


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

On a side note, is there a reliable way to tell if a battery is about to expire?
Do I have to let the car quit on me in the middle of nowhere?
I don't mind having to replace a battery every 4 years or so. Just asking for some advance notice...


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

JetBlack330i said:


> On a side note, is there a reliable way to tell if a battery is about to expire?
> Do I have to let the car quit on me in the middle of nowhere?
> I don't mind having to replace a battery every 4 years or so. Just asking for some advance notice...


Sorta. Batteries can look good on a voltmeter but not be any good when load is applied, so a meaningful battery tester puts some sort of a load on it (that's what they do when you take a battery to Pep Boys to test it). I don't know the exact voltage to look for, but I would guess if you turn the car to 'on' (not start it) and put a meter to the battery and it reads something reasonable (11.8v? :dunno: ) it's OK, and if it's below that, it's weak.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Here is a bit of an update.

Car was taken to dealership, replaced the intake cam sensor, still wouldn't start. Compression was checked, no compression in any cylinder. This was mis-diagnosed as an over-rev. Head was pulled and sent to local performance head shop. Turns out (as I was telling the dealership) that the head was oil starved causing the damage in the pictures. The motor is being pulled today or tomorrow to find the cause of the oil starvation. I am guessing the oil pump sprocket nut backed off the shaft, but we will find out soon enough.

The head is being total rebuild at the head shop. I am hoping for a new short block from BMW, but it depends on the condition of the block, crank, etc.

I will try to get more pictures when the motor comes out. Sorry for the low quality pics, they are from my phone.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

The final cause was as I suspected, the oil pump sprocket backed itself off the oil pump shaft causing a total lose of oil pressure, and the motor destroyed itself.

I will write up a full time line of the problem when I get a chance. As of right now a new long block (full motor without accessories) is on the way from BMW and could get put in as soon as Friday.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

tim330i said:


> The final cause was as I suspected, the oil pump sprocket backed itself off the oil pump shaft causing a total lose of oil pressure, and the motor destroyed itself.
> 
> I will write up a full time line of the problem when I get a chance. As of right now a new long block (full motor without accessories) is on the way from BMW and could get put in as soon as Friday.


Tim, I am soooo glad that this happened to you when it did (and not a coupla
thousand miles later). The Bimmer Gods blessed with with a very narrow margin of factory mechanical breakdown coverage. You slid in at under 50K miles not a moment too soon.

You are one lucky dude! But I am sorry that this all happened to you either way.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Thanks again for all your support Jon!

Tim


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

Jon Shafer said:


> Tim, I am soooo glad that this happened to you when it did (and not a coupla
> thousand miles later). The Bimmer Gods blessed with with a very narrow margin of factory mechanical breakdown coverage. You slid in at under 50K miles not a moment too soon.
> 
> You are one lucky dude! But I am sorry that this all happened to you either way.


WOW, I was reading your story, you are very lucky!! I hope everything will be ok and your BMW will give you many happy hours of driving...!! :thumbup:


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

Wow, how lucky you are....

Will you be getting a new engine or a factory rebuilt engine? Now its like you have a new car.


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

Wow, how lucky you are....

Will you be getting a new engine or a factory rebuilt engine?

Do you feel like you will now have a new car?

What's the warranty that comes with the "new" engine.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Wah! This sucks. I've read that this was discovered to be an issue by some people (TCKline?) that are racing Z4s with M54b30 engines.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

I believe that several companies that race the M54b30 motors know about this issue....too bad BMW doesn't.

Tim


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

tim330i said:


> I believe that several companies that race the M54b30 motors know about this issue....too bad BMW doesn't.
> 
> Tim


Or... lucky for you that BMW doesn't :eeps:


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Then they could actually fix it instead of me, and everyone else having a time bomb for a motor.

Tim


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

High quality images


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

more


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

rwg said:


> I don't know why, but I have encountered cars that would not jump several times in recent years. One time trickle charging (2 amp charger for about 36 hours) did the trick (fast charging with a "power boost" or something for starting and normal jumping would not make it work) and another time required a new battery. One vehicle was a mini-van and I think the other was a pickup.


The car providing the juice might not have had enough amperage. When the guy came to tow our car, he explained that to jump cars with larger engines or completely dead batteries, sometimes you need more oomph than a typical car can provide. He claimed that he could jump anything with his diesel truck and his marine batteries.


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

"DO NOT START NO CYL HEAD"  

Good to hear you snuck in under the wire. I wonder how many have done this.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

RSPDiver said:


> "DO NOT START NO CYL HEAD"
> 
> Good to hear you snuck in under the wire. I wonder how many have done this.


Not sure, but this was a first for my dealership.


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

New motor is here!


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

tim330i said:


> New motor is here!


They wouldn't upgrade you to a S54, huh?


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