# M3 or S4: What should I choose?



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

Hello Everyone! Great forums you have, a lot of mature posters and a great source of information although the M forums seem to be a little dead. This maybe a good thing as it suggests that everyone is happy with their machines and out there driving instead of complaining. 

Here's my dilema. My wife and I have been sharing our E46 330i SP for over a year now and we really love it. No problems whatsoever, great car. We have been living in a city and I don't need a car for commuting (my wife does) but it seems like my new job will involve driving. Plus I want something fun for the weekends and occasional fun/relaxing drives. We both drive manuals and prefer more spirited way of driving than your average American commuter (yet we DO use turn signals when changing lanes UNLIKE your average American commuter, at least here on the west coast.) We also have a baby on the way, so there are some practical considerations. 

At first, I thought it would be simple and I would just get a European Delivery of a new 330i ZHP. I love the new alcantara/cloth interior (sat in it as a matter of fact yesterday during the San Francisco Auto Show). It supposedly addresses most of the issues like DBW delay, better/shorter throw shifter and tighter suspension. 

Yet, I had a possibility (yes, I should have avoided it!) of driving an E46 M3 and I absolutely love it. The car feels more responsive, even tighter in turns and the power. It seems to have and additional engine over 330i that turns on in the upper rev band. No DBW problems detected (I drove a 6 speed which is what I would be buying). I love the E46 ergonomics, everything falls in place and my body type seems to fit in so well in the cabin. The only negative is that it is not a sedan. Why couldn't they produce an E46 M3 sedan like they did with the previous generation? I would be willing to shell out couple thousands more for that. No idea. 

So I kept exploring my options and really the only other appealing thing is the new Audi S4. I love the interior (although E46 has better knee room). I really like the exterior as well and V8 is nice and torquey. The car really hides its weight well. I don't know why. E39 540i which is about the same weight feels like a pig in comparison (I drove it and dismissed it right away.) Needless to say that I hate new BMW designs so the new 5 seres is out based purely on looks. Back to S4. I really liked it but it's not M3. It is softer and the steering is not "talking" to the driver as much as even my 330i. AWD is an interesting experience. I think for sheer pleasure I like RWD but I am getting a little older and my driving patterns change so maybe I don't need all this throttle steering and breaking the rear end in the back road curves. Audi tracks nicely through the curves and inspires a lot of confidence. I really, really like the S4 shifter. IMHO it is better than m3. It is shorter (both height and throw) and throws are very positive. Absolutely effortless, I love it. I don't like S4's clutch pedal. I much prefer BMW's. It is too soft and vague. New s4 has a much bigger blind spot that E46 (both coupe and sedan) 

Now all the failures/problems. Both cars would be new so I don't worry that much but M3 engine failure issues seem much different from new S4 engine/transmission/etc issues. M3 engine issues seem to have been relted to a specific problem in a specific batch of cars. It was identified and fix was in place and performed. S4 (based at least on posts in AudiWorld forums) does not have a singular issue but seems to have a lot of them popping out in different areas and they are being addressed ad hoc rather than strategically. This may suggest overall lack of quality/reliability issues and dealer servicing skills. 

In essence, I don't know what to choose. I guess if I needed a wagon, it would be easier. The only thing that really draws me to Audi is I guess the utility of 4 doors. It is a decent car and great competitor to M3 but in absolute terms and in my subjective driving preferences it is not as good (fun, involving, insert any adjective you like here) a car. And there is also reliability concerns as mentioned above. I can't really go back to 330i (new ZHP) as I have been unfortunately corrupted by additional power. 

What should I do? Has anyone here been in a similar position, cross-shopping between M3 and S4 and what did you choose and why? Is having a coupe and a baby (baby seat issues andone?) really a pain in the ... . I don't believe in having to have a big SUV and drag around half the household the moment you conceive a little human being but would a coupe really be fine for that. I've always had a sedan in my life. I really want an M3 more but S4 appeals to me as well. Advice? 


Thanks!


----------



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

rumatt said:


> May I politely suggest adding some paragraph breaks in that text?
> 
> It's very hard to read that way.


Sorry! Hope this looks better. Writing has never been my forte. It reads like a teenage girls rant as I look at it now.


----------



## mowgli (Oct 22, 2003)

*m3 or s4*

i had a twin turbo S4 prior to the 330CI i just bought approx 3 weeks ago. I opted against either another s4 or M3 because at some point I thought enough horesepower is enough! A few initial thoughts...the S4 is a great car, the allwheel drive handeling is wonderful, the speed is great and the 4 doors are nice. Plus the 2004 audi's are a step above interms of some optional equipment; all that said, the Audi's are very quirky cars and I also have an Allroad that shares many strange mechanical flaws from time to time. The Bmw rides a bit smoother, has slightly better road feel, I think it is made better and smarter and I think it is more of a sports car then a family sedan like the S4 is. I do like the fact that noone really knows what the S4 is but if thats the cae, I guess one could even consider the Volvo S60r which I also like. All that said, for me the BMW is preferable, for my wife the Audi! Either way, you can not go wrong and to be honest, I do miss the exra power/speed in the lower gears. gOOD lUCK!


----------



## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

*Audi RS6*

forget both..get the RS6.....


----------



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

Riuster said:


> forget both..get the RS6.....


OK. That's like saying why don't you get a Ferrari, it's better... RS6 is in a completely different price range. And on top of that it is even heavier and much bigger than S4. I'm sure that negatively affects its handling. If I was going for such a big car I would probably get a used E39 M5, but I'm not.


----------



## Zappo (Sep 18, 2002)

Riuster said:


> forget both..get the RS6.....


Get the M3.


----------



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

rumatt said:


> Better!
> 
> Seems to me like you've already done quite a bit of homework on the subject and know most of the tradoffs. I drove the previous model S4 before making up my mind, and for some reason there was just something about the S4 that I didn't love. It really was a great car so tt was hard to explain what I didn't like, but when I test drove the BMW 330 I just loved the driving feel.
> 
> Anyway, I'm not helping much. My only (not so deep) advice is to drive them each again (and again, and again) and you'll decide at some point.


I know what you mean. I wish I could have both of them for the weekend! This would help. New S4 is actually nothing like old one. It feels much tighter, more BMW-like. Couple of my friends have an old one and it's a really different car. I don't like the old S4 at all, it compares pretty bad to my 330i despite the huge power from turbo coming at a very low RPM which totally confuses the but dyno into thinking the car is very very fast as you take off from the lights. Driving dynamics of our 330i are excellent compared to the old S4.


----------



## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Wallenrod said:


> OK. That's like saying why don't you get a Ferrari, it's better... RS6 is in a completely different price range. And on top of that it is even heavier and much bigger than S4. I'm sure that negatively affects its handling. If I was going for such a big car I would probably get a used E39 M5, but I'm not.


I didnt say Ferrari...comon....RS6..is probably 300 more per month..give or take..after driving my M3, well its the same ol same ol..333HP..just doesnt crank it anymore..in my opinion..it is played out, not too many RS6s around here in NYC...

The A4..in my opinion..got great reviews...but....doesnt have agressive look and WILD drive nature as the M3...quattro is great...but so what...

But why get a M3 now or the A4 now, its already 3 years running...many people around the NYC area has one...so be different..i have not yet seen a RS6 on the road, or maybe..im just getting old

ok..out of the two..get the M3 SMG2.....looks far better than the A4

here's mine for inspiration.


----------



## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

*pic..sorry*

picture...

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mrieue/lst?.dir=/The+Riuster+Carbon+Black+M3&.view=t


----------



## marksmith (Aug 9, 2003)

*Been there & went w/ the M3....*

I spent months test driving the new S4 and the M3 and in the process managed to drive myself & every BMW/AUDI dealer in N.Texas nuts. Here is my take on the debate:
-My most recent BMW was an 02' 330ci w/ an obscene ($20K) amount of aftermarket stuff on it like Dinan S3 w/ 3.15 diff., Brembos, Supersprint, Hamann etc. It was/is a terrific car but I wanted more power, suspension, etc. I decided to shop for my "dream car", something I would keep until the wheels fall off. In rapid order I drove the CLK55, C32, S4 and the M3. This became a simple process of elemination: 
1. The Mercedes cars had torque in spades but lacked everything else I cherish ( excellent suspension, responsive engine & transmisson, ergomonics, stylish aesthetics and a more self-effacing level of the "stare-at- me" factor.)
2. The S4, even after 8 test drives & a very patient dealer who let me have it for an extended period, never felt as nimble, light, tossable or powerful as I wanted. The S4 is simple too heavy at 3850 lbs for the wonderful 345hp/300 lbs torque powerplant to produce stirring results. The cars all-wheel-drive system contributes to the odd sense of lethargy & lack of dynamics (the drivers' sensation of forward velocity never seems proportional to the speedometer reading: 60 mph feels like 40 mph, 90 feels like 60 etc.) All in all I felt the S4 to be somewhat colorless, lacking the soul and heartbeat one might expect of a car w/ such a strong family line. The S4 may be a great car but it never managed to leave me /w the feeling that I would wake up each day and yearn to take it out for a spin (if only you could bottle the sound!)
3. Then came the M3 and I fought the idea tooth & nail: "All E46 coupes are pretty much the same", "How can a car that produces only 263 lbs of torque be that thrilling", "The M3 has become a rich-brat mobile", etc. I had a bad attitude about the M3 partially because everyone seems so enamored of it. I drove the car many, many times times and finally came away with one clear picture: THE M3 DOES ALL THINGS WELL.THE WHOLE IS GREATER THAN THE SUM OF IT'S PARTS (which are pretty impressive parts at that) I jumped in/on the M3 bandwagon and took a new M3 home last week. It's taken 5 days and 900 miles to get to know it better. All I can say is this: The M3 is a Zen car. It is amazing. It must be driven for an extended period (no test drive will suffice). The M3 can and will most likly exceed one's expectations (at ever opportunity.) There seem to be several M3's lurking within each car waiting to be discovered like layers of the mind (a great city driver, a docile family car, a great sports car, a brut & wicked beast, and a poised uber-coupe that begs to driven onlong trips. etc.)
-Finally I am simply shocked at how I have fallen in love with a bloody machine. I'm so glad I went w/ the M3 and feel pretty confident that it is the best car ever made in the history of the human race (and NO, I do not work for BMW. I am aging artist and a hopeless romantic who may have found the last car I need ever own.)
PS: I have owned 3 BMW's, 3 Mercedes, 2 Porsches and a dozen lesser car since 1966.


----------



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

Riuster said:


> But why get a M3 now or the A4 now, its already 3 years running...many people around the NYC area has one...so be different..i have not yet seen a RS6 on the road, or maybe..im just getting old
> 
> ok..out of the two..get the M3 SMG2.....looks far better than the A4
> 
> here's mine for inspiration.


The fact that the car has been in production for so long is a big plus for me. That means that they were able to spot and fix potential problems and that it proved to be reliable. S4 being so new is a big minus for me. I'm not interested in having latest and greatest. That has no appeal to me. No, I am not interested in RS6. Too big, too heavy, too expensive. Few hundreds a month? I don't know about you but that's a big difference for me. I would also probably pay cash for our second car. 
I will get a 6 speed. I can understand why people like SMG but I absolutely hated it. In my opinion it absolutely takes away the pleasure of driving. That's obviously my opinion.


----------



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

marksmith said:


> I spent months test driving the new S4 and the M3 and in the process managed to drive myself & every BMW/AUDI dealer in N.Texas nuts. Here is my take on the debate:
> -My most recent BMW was an 02' 330ci w/ an obscene ($20K) amount of aftermarket stuff on it like Dinan S3 w/ 3.15 diff., Brembos, Supersprint, Hamann etc. It was/is a terrific car but I wanted more power, suspension, etc. I decided to shop for my "dream car", something I would keep until the wheels fall off. In rapid order I drove the CLK55, C32, S4 and the M3. This became a simple process of elemination:
> 1. The Mercedes cars had torque in spades but lacked everything else I cherish ( excellent suspension, responsive engine & transmisson, ergomonics, stylish aesthetics and a more self-effacing level of the "stare-at- me" factor.)
> 2. The S4, even after 8 test drives & a very patient dealer who let me have it for an extended period, never felt as nimble, light, tossable or powerful as I wanted. The S4 is simple too heavy at 3850 lbs for the wonderful 345hp/300 lbs torque powerplant to produce stirring results. The cars all-wheel-drive system contributes to the odd sense of lethargy & lack of dynamics (the drivers' sensation of forward velocity never seems proportional to the speedometer reading: 60 mph feels like 40 mph, 90 feels like 60 etc.) All in all I felt the S4 to be somewhat colorless, lacking the soul and heartbeat one might expect of a car w/ such a strong family line. The S4 may be a great car but it never managed to leave me /w the feeling that I would wake up each day and yearn to take it out for a spin (if only you could bottle the sound!)
> ...


Thanks! I liked M3 much better too. Weight is really such a big factor. I actually also liked the revving engine characteristics of an in-line six and high redline. It always feels to have so much more go on tap. It's fun. I feel the same about AWD. I think it makes the car more lethargic and "slow." And controlled not by driver so much but by a machine. I guess if I had winters here AWD would make sense but I don't really need it in CA. My biggest attraction to S4 is the fact that it's a sedan. If M3 was a sedan it would be a no brainer. I would hate to have to get rid of it when it turns out loading and unloading the baby is a huge pain. I also simply like sedans more both visually and in terms of utility, being able to pick up people easily, throw something in the back seat etc.


----------



## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

Oh what a dilemna!

While I haven't had the chance to drive an S4 yet, I am at the same crossroads you are at, but I am leaning towards the BMW for the following reasons:

1) The initial Audi production problems. I don't need a dealer telling me that the first replacement transmission is on the house, but if it fails again within another 250 miles it's on my tab. Ditto for valve springs, clutch, etc etc etc.

2) While the V8 sounds realllly nice, the exterior of the car does nothing for me. Whenever I see an M3 on the road, my jaw drops and I start making Tim Allen Tool Time ape sounds. Beautiful car.

3) There is a little more wiggle room in the pricing of the BMW nowadays.

In the end, I have tried to rationalize buying a car other than the M3 time and time again, but I always come back to it.

My wife points out that if I don't get one, I will always regret it. Just a couple more months.....almost there.

Go ahead, drink the Kool Aid.


----------



## mmchargue (Oct 30, 2003)

*Do yourself a favor...Get the M3*

I too considered an S4 ( just to make me feel like I did my due diligence)...Almost everybody posting has hit the nail on the head about the overall experience of the E46 M...I have only had mine for a week and a half, and thank god I went with the M....In the end, all the options you have mentioned are great cars, but ask yourself if you will always wonder about the M if you went with the S4...I know I would have already been second guessing my decision if I didnt get an M...The sum of the parts truly IS greater!...IMO, the M is THE car that will keep you the happiest and avoid any second guessing...You obivously enjoy driving and actually demand a great driving experience, (many say they do, but few can actually know what one is)...Therefore, get the M...You will not regret it...No one does...and I have been pleasantly surprised with getting people and gear in and out of the back seats...I'm not sure, but it seems like the 04's seats fold forward more than previous years...
Enjoy...and good luck...
Remember-->NO REGRETS

-mike


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Get the M3. :drive:

As for the SMG, I would never get one without it. I took my E30 325is to Laguna Seca and let me tell you, having SMG in the car is cheating. You aim for your apex, you brake, you click the - a few times, unwind/roll on the throttle, and off you go. :bigpimp:

That is, if I had had my M3. Instead, it was, aim for the apex, brake so I can have enough time for heel and toe, heel and toe, hmm, brake some more, and finally, unwind/roll on the throttle. uch:

I love driving sideways in the M3, it is so predictable and easy to catch. If you get on the throttle to hard (say, the button hook in Button Willow) in 2nd, just keep the foot where it is, CPR, and go on your merry way. It really brings a smile to my face every time I get it sideways. :thumbup:

And then, there's the sweet 100mph 8000rpm 3rd gear, and the 140mph 8000rpm 4th gear, and let's not forget the 167mph 8000rpm 5th gear. :freakdanc

There is not another car that I would buy in under 100K. The M3 is *THAT GOOD*, better than any PorkChop without the GT1 derived engine block. That is to say, I would never get a regular C2 or C4/S over the M3. :angel:

One last thing, if you spec the M3 like I did mine, you will notice a difference in driving. I got Xenon and SMG and nothing else, and it does feel lighter than all the bloated sunroof, Nav, HK subwoofer*s*, and power seat equipped ones.

Get it, and thank me later. :bigpimp:


----------



## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

M


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

First, don't compare the feel of the S4 to the 540i. That is like comparing the M3 to your 330. Compare the S4 to the similar weight and setup in the M5.

Bottom line is we can't choose for you. Obviously posting the question here (on an M3 forum) you will mainly get M3 as the answer. Post on a Audi board and you will get S4 as the answer.

My take is you are trying to justify the S4 since it has 4 doors. If that is the case, you will never be totally happy with it, and everytime you see an M3 on teh road, you will say, I could have had an M3.


----------



## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks everyone! I guess I am more looking for personal takes, experiences and similar choices some of you faced rather than a specific answers. Thanks again. Great feedaback. At this point I think a choice is more psychological than really having to drive the cars again. I think M3 it is. Wow! My first coupe. I hope I'm not going to regret it. I guess we have a sedan (330i) as our primary car. My wife is so great. She just said today: get whatever will make you happy. Nice.
Now I'll just have to think of colors (I know which options I want already). It is between a rational choice of silver gray/black (we have a titanium silver 3-er so there will be some variety) and something crazy like imola/black. I'm just afraid of drawing too much attention plus the upkeep of a non-metalic color. Will probably place an order in January. Really wish there was a ED on Ms with even some marginal savings to justify the trip to Europe!


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

No savings on ED, but definately do the Performance Center Delivery. They don't chanrge any more, but you do have to pay one way airfare to Spartenburg, SC. BMW picks you up at the airport, puts you up (for 2 people) overnight, dinner and breakfast for two. Transportation to the Center.

There you will get a driving course, where you will drive the same model and transmission type as you are buying. You also get a museum and factory tour, lunch, and a proper delivery. They go over EVERY button and switch and everything you need to know about your car. The delivery alone takes about 2 hours.

The delivery is done in your own private bay with just the delivery person, you and the car.

You will also know the exact delivery date of your car.

As for color, most M3s out there are Silver or Black. You can be a sheep, or you can be a man and get some other color. 

Also consider SMG. I know you say you both enjoy a stick, and so do I. But the SMG is just so awesome. I have more fun with it than with the stick in teh Roadster. Having both is extremely nice.


----------



## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

Wallenrod said:


> My wife is so great. She just said today: get whatever will make you happy.


 :eeps: :eeps: :eeps:

Whenever my wife says that I get really nervous.

No shame in Ti Ag, it's a great color (Baaaaaaaaaa!)


----------



## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Wallenrod said:


> The fact that the car has been in production for so long is a big plus for me. That means that they were able to spot and fix potential problems and that it proved to be reliable. S4 being so new is a big minus for me. I'm not interested in having latest and greatest. That has no appeal to me. No, I am not interested in RS6. Too big, too heavy, too expensive. Few hundreds a month? I don't know about you but that's a big difference for me. I would also probably pay cash for our second car.
> I will get a 6 speed. I can understand why people like SMG but I absolutely hated it. In my opinion it absolutely takes away the pleasure of driving. That's obviously my opinion.


My brother, I m getting a feeling you ALWAYS wanted to get your hands on the M3...why ask us....You already know the answer...

Get the M3...its already been decided even before you posted..... :thumbup:

Good Luck on the Ride...Enjoy it...its a really fun, and posts some pics when you get the sick 6 speeder...


----------



## n2speedn (Dec 4, 2003)

I also had a tough time trying to decide between the two cars. As of yesterday though I finally mad my decision and placed my order for a 04 ir M3. Best of luck to you.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

You dismissed the 540 as not tossable. I would drive an M5 before dismissing the whole 5 series. The M5s are really coming down in price and can be had with not that many miles for a similar price to the M3/S4.


----------



## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

Wallenrod said:


> Hello Everyone! Great forums you have, a lot of mature posters and a great source of information although the M forums seem to be a little dead. This maybe a good thing as it suggests that everyone is happy with their machines and out there driving instead of complaining.
> 
> Here's my dilema. My wife and I have been sharing our E46 330i SP for over a year now and we really love it. No problems whatsoever, great car. We have been living in a city and I don't need a car for commuting (my wife does) but it seems like my new job will involve driving. Plus I want something fun for the weekends and occasional fun/relaxing drives. We both drive manuals and prefer more spirited way of driving than your average American commuter (yet we DO use turn signals when changing lanes UNLIKE your average American commuter, at least here on the west coast.) We also have a baby on the way, so there are some practical considerations.
> 
> ...


It's not clear to me. Are you keeping the 330? If so, it's a no brainer. The 330 is the baby car. If not, so it's a hassle loading the kid, but think of the kid, and how much fun he/she will have with dad ripping through the country side. Don't bother posting pictures of your new M3. Most of us know what they look like. Instead post a picture of the kid in the child seat. I'm thinking of a shot taken from the trunk with the kid strapped to the left half of the rear seat with right half folded down so you get both the kid and the tach at red line and the speedo at some ridiculously high speed. If you get SMG II be sure to get gear indicator light in the picture too. Of course your wife will be taking the picture and filing for divorce and soon as you get back home.

Enjoy the kid and the M3! Perhaps not in that order at first.


----------



## CBlkM3 (Dec 3, 2003)

I see that I don't really need to post as you have already made up your mind, but let me make a couple of comments to ease any worries...

First, I drove the previous S4 (twin-turbo S4). It's a _nice_ car, but it reminded me a volkswagen, and the luxury seemed cheap. Almost as if Nissan and VW had a baby with greater aspirations. The particular S4 I drove belonged to a friend of mine, and while he hasn't had any mechanical problems, the cheapness of the interior has begun show which supports my initial feeling of when I drove it new. That being said, and although I have only had my M3 for a few months, I feel that the material quality is much higher, except for the plastic trim, which I have come to accept. Also, I would hae greater concern regarding the mechanical reliability of the new S4. From their board, the mention what sounds like significant engine and transmission problems with the new model. Perhaps these are over exagerated like the M3 oil pump problem which resulted in a slightly higher failure rate than expected, but none-the-less, something to consider.

Second, when I drove my M3 home from the dealer, we had to put 2 car seats in the back, and let me tell you, the BMW engineers had us dads in mind when they designed those front seat mounts. They are actually hinged and fold much further forward than you would expect, giving you plenty of room to get in and secure jr.

I opted for the SMG, and I really appreciate it. I have always been a die-hard manual transmission advocate, but also being a motorsports fan, I was eager to experience an F1-style sequential transmission. After my test drive, I was still hesitant, but I bought with SMG anyway, knowing it might take some getting used to. I don't regret my decision today, but then again, I still have 2 other cars (both Porsches) with manual to feed my left foot.

The only things I regret, or should I say, resent about my purchase are the poor OEM tires (Contisport), the cost of the integrated garage-door opener, and the horrendous understeer of the stock car, and I think I can deal with these issues given the end result :drive: :thumbup: .

Happy ///Motoring!


----------



## CenCoastM3 (Dec 18, 2003)

My 20 month old boy has grown up riding in my M3 without a hitch. The baby seat sits in the right rear position without a problem. The only issue we have is with the large coupe doors, which have to swing out wide to access the rear seat. This, however, is not a problem with the M3 but shared by coupes in general. The trunk has enough space for his stuff and our bags for weekend adventures.

I chose a 03 M3 coupe over an 04 S4 so I think that you've made the right decision!


----------



## Speedi (Aug 3, 2002)

*Road & Track Road Test S4 v. M3*

According to the Road and Track review, looks like the M3 edges out the S4 in all performance categories AND really only loses out on the subjective ratings (looks, interior, cost, etc.). If you want performance, the M3 wins, by the numbers. Even the 340HP Audi V8 can't lug around 3800+ lbs. It REALLY needs more power to be on the same performance level.

To me, I buy a car like the M3 for what it is... performance, handling, appearance.. not to mention I've been wanting one for 12 years and finally had the means to get it after being on a list for 2 years!! 

Anyway, I suppose service is another thing I'd be looking for in an automobile... and truthfully, I can't say enough about BMW service here in Atlanta (United BMW, anyway). These guys/gals are on it. I've never owned an Audi, so I can't speak to their service status.

As for the M3... it puts the biggest smile on my face when I get in and fire it up.

- Speedi


----------



## Beamer05M3 (Aug 1, 2005)

*05 m3*

*05 m3 is awsome. I went down to florida to pick her up. drove it back to nh. 
"what a fun ride"*

Anyone that doesnt own it. SHOULD... have a ride down to your BMW dealer and take one out. just from sitting in it i got a smile from ear to ear. Im 19 though, truly is a dream car.

Also anyone from NH or near by PM or Email me, id like to check out some cars.

"" Gumball ""it up EVERYONE!!! hope everyone knows what that is.


----------



## Speedi (Aug 3, 2002)

Beamer05M3 said:


> *05 m3 is awsome. I went down to florida to pick her up. drove it back to nh.
> "what a fun ride"*
> 
> Anyone that doesnt own it. SHOULD... have a ride down to your BMW dealer and take one out. just from sitting in it i got a smile from ear to ear. Im 19 though, truly is a dream car.
> ...


After 3 years of living with this car... it's still amazing and may be one of the current best performance value on the road. I recently had the service done at United BMW for the engine recall, and they did a fabulous job, as usual. Although I only have 14,000 miles on the odo, it's always a complete blast to get in a fire it up.

The only things I have done to this car since I bought it are... window tint and I replaced the 18" OEM wheels with the 19" OEM wheels.

Also, get your non-jellybean M3s while you can... the new 3-series looks like a friggin' Honda or a fleet car with no soul. I am very disappointed and am not sure this will grow on me like the 7-series did. Of course, I am also very disappointed with the new 5-series. 

Can someone tell me why BMW can't have the designer of the new Mercedes Benz line? The Benz still has soul and their designs are artwork. 

- Speedi


----------



## Miguel Shaia (May 25, 2005)

if you need a car, practical and fun weekend driver and are financially stable (by the sounds of it you aren't hurting) the look at a Porsche. I enjoy my M3 as well, but its really more for cargo room for my work, than sheer performance. The fastest you can really go here in Marbella costa is probably at most 80-90mphs. So for me, it is a cruiser/everyday car.

There is no reason for you to get the glorified seden (i.e M3) when your wife already has a semi glorified seden to use. You should look at even the brand 997 carrera (which is much funner than the M3) and use it for weekend fun. Even with a child coming, the 330i is still there, and the backseats of the carrera are just fine for a small child. 
With that being said, there is no point in considering an S4 either. Its just another glorified seden which you really dont seem to need if you both have the 330i. Have a look at a Carrera or CarreraS (the CarreraS is a very good car, we just picked up my wife's 2 weeks ago) . 

If the Porsche isn't a possibility, then I'd gof or a new ZCP M3, and nothing less. The S4 doesn't seem necessary since you already have a seden.


----------



## Miguel Shaia (May 25, 2005)

Speedi said:


> Also, get your non-jellybean M3s while you can... the new 3-series looks like a friggin' Honda or a fleet car with no soul. I am very disappointed and am not sure this will grow on me like the 7-series did. Of course, I am also very disappointed with the new 5-series.
> 
> Can someone tell me why BMW can't have the designer of the new Mercedes Benz line? The Benz still has soul and their designs are artwork.
> 
> - Speedi


you seem to find beauty in some of the less attractive designs and no beauty in the better looking cars.... The new 7 series with those new tail lights, looks like some sort of Korean limo, with no style just bulky appearence. The facelift of the 7 looks better, but rather less serious and more japanese. As for the new 5 series, it has grown on me to look just good enough. With a good color combo it can be an attractive seden, smoother looking than the Eclass, yet just as serious. The E90 grew on me too, it used to look abit like another Korean car, but its beefy enough to portray a serious sports seden look. The E90 seden looks more promising than the e46 seden, even the e90 320 still has a beefy look to it, when the e46, like the e36 can look awfully weak in lower hp'd trims.

As for the Mercedes line-up, I agree with you. The new ones look very inviting and even the new Aclass is a neat little car, much more alluring than the 1 series.


----------



## Davidgf (Jul 28, 2005)

Well, I am very pragmatic. I have an Audi and an M3. For reliability you cannot beat the Audi, the M3 has been an endless series of problems .... I am seriously considering now ditching it and buying a second Audi I am afraid ! Probably an S8 ...


----------



## Speedi (Aug 3, 2002)

Davidgf said:


> Well, I am very pragmatic. I have an Audi and an M3. For reliability you cannot beat the Audi, the M3 has been an endless series of problems .... I am seriously considering now ditching it and buying a second Audi I am afraid ! Probably an S8 ...


I really think that it's all a matter of what you get hold of. Mechanical devices are just that... looking at some Consumer Ratings... the Audi rates much lower than BMW, but like I said, it seems to be more of what you "got" when you bought.

I haven't had any problems with the M3... although I admit I only have 14k miles on it.


----------



## Speedi (Aug 3, 2002)

Miguel Shaia said:


> you seem to find beauty in some of the less attractive designs and no beauty in the better looking cars.... The new 7 series with those new tail lights, looks like some sort of Korean limo, with no style just bulky appearence. The facelift of the 7 looks better, but rather less serious and more japanese. As for the new 5 series, it has grown on me to look just good enough. With a good color combo it can be an attractive seden, smoother looking than the Eclass, yet just as serious. The E90 grew on me too, it used to look abit like another Korean car, but its beefy enough to portray a serious sports seden look. The E90 seden looks more promising than the e46 seden, even the e90 320 still has a beefy look to it, when the e46, like the e36 can look awfully weak in lower hp'd trims.
> 
> As for the Mercedes line-up, I agree with you. The new ones look very inviting and even the new Aclass is a neat little car, much more alluring than the 1 series.


Of course, it is a matter of opinion, but I do believe that more people will easily say the new designs from BMW are no where near as good as the new designs from MB.

I believe that all of the new BMW designs look more like Japanese bean-mobiles than serious automobiles.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Speedi said:


> Of course, it is a matter of opinion, but I do believe that more people will easily say the new designs from BMW are no where near as good as the new designs from MB.
> 
> I believe that all of the new BMW designs look more like Japanese bean-mobiles than serious automobiles.


You do have a right to your opinion but that's all that it is. I like the new 3-Series and will be anxious to see the coupe. BMW has a right to develop their look as they are smart to do so. This is a discussion that's happened every time they have changed their look.


----------

