# GLK250 BlueTEC is here ! Where is x3 diesel?



## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

Hey all, GLK250 BlueTEC has arrived.


----------



## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

There is $1,500 premium for 4 pot diesel vs. V6. :yikes: This is not helping.


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Wow, 369 lb-ft from 2.1 L. 2.0 L Jetta TDI is not even close in torque ~260 lb-ft or so. Does bi-turbo mean a low rpm small and a higher rpm big like the 335D and X5D have? This could spell why the torque is so high for this small displacement.

A little later: I went and looked it up. VW Jetta TDI has 236 lb-ft torque


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

FINALLY! I'm gonna go test drive one of these soon

BMW is waiting until the LCI for the F25, it seems.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

bayoucity said:


> There is $1,500 premium for 4 pot diesel vs. V6. :yikes: This is not helping.


You're forgetting that the 4MATIC system is an option on the V6. It's standard on the diesel, therefore the diesel is actually *cheaper* :thumbup:

that being said, I'm more excited about the upcoming Q5 TDI. The engine will be significantly faster and it's in a better overall package (fit/finish, tech, etc). It should get about the same MPG.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

My local dealer should have a demo model and some not-sold ones in about 2 weeks. Will go drive it for sure.

However, the only upside I see to MB going with a smaller 4 cylinder diesel is the price. They can undercut Audi by several thousand dollars because the TDI Q5 mirrors the higher-end 3.0T in terms of option structure and will probably be a hefty premium above the 3.0T.


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

AutoUnion said:


> You're forgetting that the 4MATIC system is an option on the V6. It's standard on the diesel, therefore the diesel is actually *cheaper* :thumbup:
> 
> that being said, I'm more excited about the upcoming Q5 TDI. The engine will be significantly faster and it's in a better overall package (fit/finish, tech, etc). It should get about the same MPG.


Agreed. I looked closely at a Q5 before buying my A6. Much nicer than the X3 IMHO.


----------



## ductman (Dec 17, 2011)

bayoucity said:


> There is $1,500 premium for 4 pot diesel vs. V6. :yikes: This is not helping.


Crazy, what MB charges for their prepaid maintenance ( doesn't include brakes )

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-GLK/model-GLK250BT#service

Prepaid maintenance is less on the ML Blutec ??

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-M/model-ML350BTC#service


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

I am betting that you will not be getting any significant discounts on the M-B BT or the Q5 TDI very soon either! After 6 months or so when the bloom is off the rose then deals can be had -- including a serious break on the maintenance program, look for it to be included as a "sweetner" to close a deal. The MB & Audi stores are well aware of the BMW "free" program and know that is a strong incentive for customers. Of course nothing is free and any cost will come out of the profit margin somehow.:angel:


----------



## evtee (May 4, 2013)

Here is mine that I picked up sometime last month. Canadians got treated nicely for once by an earlier introduction. I was tired of waiting for a diesel X3 / Q5 and I was uninterested once I heard that the Q5 was coming with a bigger less efficient 3.0TDI.


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

ev - after you have driven a bit could you post your "real world mileage" for us to drool over! Enjoy that nice new ride!:angel:


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

AutoUnion said:


> You're forgetting that the 4MATIC system is an option on the V6. It's standard on the diesel, therefore the diesel is actually *cheaper* :thumbup:
> 
> that being said, I'm more excited about the upcoming Q5 TDI. The engine will be significantly faster and it's in a better overall package (fit/finish, tech, etc). It should get about the same MPG.


Only "cheaper" if the person buying wanted the 4matic though. Down here to me it seems like a pointless option to get on there. I did email the dealer though to see about test driving one of these when they get one. Although when I priced it out online I think it came in around $48k and the price point really killed some of my interest. I have my doubts that I will like how the power comes on for normal driving needs.

The Q5 TDI I am thinking will be the one I ultimately like if/when it arrives.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

UncleJ said:


> ev - after you have driven a bit could you post your "real world mileage" for us to drool over! Enjoy that nice new ride!:angel:


I talked to someone yesterday who has one and claims his mpg is 37. I often take mpg claims with a grain of salt though because too many times seen where someone makes a claim but when pressing them for details it turns out the number they are stating is in some perfect highway situation and includes no other driving.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> I talked to someone yesterday who has one and claims his mpg is 37. I often take mpg claims with a grain of salt though because too many times seen where someone makes a claim but when pressing them for details it turns out the number they are stating is in some perfect highway situation and includes no other driving.


I talked to him briefly this afternoon when I took a GLK 250 for a short test drive. So the claim is had been spending $60/week on diesel in the BT e class and now $40 every other week in the BT GLK. Keep thinking that was a misstatement and meant $40/week since otherwise he is saying it is 3x more efficient for his driving. He did not he does not drive all that gently either.

I am kind of impressed with that little GLK. Heck it even downshifts at 60 when rolling into the throttle, something the BT E and M both did not for me and always bothers me. The one I drove was pretty bare bones, I think almost $39k, not sure if it had a single option.


----------



## evtee (May 4, 2013)

Snipe656 said:


> I talked to someone yesterday who has one and claims his mpg is 37. I often take mpg claims with a grain of salt though because too many times seen where someone makes a claim but when pressing them for details it turns out the number they are stating is in some perfect highway situation and includes no other driving.


I get 36 mpg easily on the highway and it only has about 2000km. Fuel economy should be getting better once the engine is broken in. Someone on another forum posted 43mpg cruising at about 60mph. I think that the EPA rating on this car is a little too conservative as with many other diesels.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

evtee said:


> I get 36 mpg easily on the highway and it only has about 2000km. Fuel economy should be getting better once the engine is broken in. Someone on another forum posted 43mpg cruising at about 60mph. I think that the EPA rating on this car is a little too conservative as with many other diesels.


I for some reason I have yet to own a diesel vehicle where the mileage improved with breaking in. I still have two here, one with 206k miles and another with 244k, so maybe they just have not reached breaking in yet 

Anyway, the little BT impressed me, not sure if I'd be happy at the price point or not. Right now I am just forming a list of vehicles I might consider when I need to buy.


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> I talked to someone yesterday who has one and claims his mpg is 37. I often take mpg claims with a grain of salt though because too many times seen where someone makes a claim but when pressing them for details it turns out the number they are stating is in some perfect highway situation and includes no other driving.


Think Fuelly.com!!!!!

I just looked and no GLK250 yet. Only one GL350BT and his data appears questionable on a few of his 11 fill ups. Either missing miles or looks like he missed a fill up between resting his miles. Over 1,000 miles on a tank! I sent him a note to see what he has to say, doubt he'll reply.

I'd expect the GLK to come in the mid 30's on average. The GLK is rather small.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> Think Fuelly.com!!!!!


Not that I looked for one of these but that only helps if people actually use it. I have shopped cars before that maybe have 1-2 people using that site so was worthless data to my decision.


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

None of our local dealers have a diesel yet. I don't know if it is something to do with CARB or what but no GLK oiler. I was hoping that it would come with RWD but alas not to be, 4WD or nothing. That cuts at least 2 mpg and adds complexity I don't want or need.:angel:


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

UncleJ said:


> None of our local dealers have a diesel yet. I don't know if it is something to do with CARB or what but no GLK oiler. I was hoping that it would come with RWD but alas not to be, 4WD or nothing. That cuts at least 2 mpg and adds complexity I don't want or need.:angel:


The sales guy I think told me that a 2wd version will be coming. But that is a sales guy talking to take it for what it is worth. I thought he said in another model year but to be honest I did not pay that close attention to what he said about none 4matic.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

and update: finally saw my 1st GLK CDI. Didn't get to drive it, but sat in it. Sold unit.

It was a pretty stripped out model. MSRP about $42k. 

I'm not too keen on the car. The facelift ruined an otherwise decent looking cute-ute and the interior is still mediocre. Poor quality. I can't believe leather is still an option! If one can live with a stripper model for ~$38-40k, it represents a good value. ~35mpg highway on a Mercedes-Benz SUV is good.

But once you load it up (like a Mercedes-Benz should be), it starts to become a poor value. I added Bi-Xenons, NAV, heated seats, leather, etc and it went up to $50k. $50k for a 4-banger diesel SUV is ridiculous. Spend a little bit more and get a ML/X5 diesel. Or wait for the superior Q5 TDI. Even though you loose some MPG, these are $50k cars, you make up for it in performance, build quality, and driving dynamics.

Overall, I'm sure MB will sells tons of these and it will be successful for them. if you don't plan on loading it up, a GLK is a good bet. But if you like creature comforts, pass on the GLK and move directly toward the Q5 TDI.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I thought it was a good deal at the base price and what you get for that. But I agree it seems like not a great deal at all once options stacked on. I could leave with the base one if buying for a mileage hog and honestly I think that would be the only reason I'd ever buy one. I'd want a lot more out of a vehicle I was buying to do more than just rack tons of miles on.


----------



## evtee (May 4, 2013)

No German car is a good deal when loaded up. I tacked on around or more than 10k worth of option on the GLK and the 335d.

I think it's unfair to say "spend a little bit more and get X car". It goes back to adding options which will end up costing significantly more money. If I wanted to get a fully loaded X5 / ML I would've needed to put in around 25k more than what I paid for the GLK. Sure the loaded price of a GLK is close to the base of the ML / X5, but you need to add options to those cars too.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

That is true although different base models can come with more base options. The GLK to M though I think base to base are similarly optioned out.


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Snipe - back to your comment on 80's cars lasting - I see lots of pre 80's MB's VW's, Fords, Chev's, Volvos, 911's and of course Bimmers still running around. As far as trucks go there are a ton of them dating back to the 50's in daily use -- but you kind of expect that with a truck. I saw a pristine 57 Chev parked at the local Whole Foods that was getting more attention than the new Tesla sitting next to it. With no salt and snow cars seem to last longer here. Our local MB dealers still don't have any diesel GLK's to look at!:dunno:


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

UncleJ said:


> Snipe - back to your comment on 80's cars lasting - I see lots of pre 80's MB's VW's, Fords, Chev's, Volvos, 911's and of course Bimmers still running around. As far as trucks go there are a ton of them dating back to the 50's in daily use -- but you kind of expect that with a truck. I saw a pristine 57 Chev parked at the local Whole Foods that was getting more attention than the new Tesla sitting next to it. With no salt and snow cars seem to last longer here. Our local MB dealers still don't have any diesel GLK's to look at!:dunno:


It is a very, very rare day I see an 80s BMW on the road. I see a lot of Volvos and MBZ though but I those old "red block" Volvos much like the old MBZ vehicles from the same era have a much deserved reputation of lasting. 80s GMs with their self deteriorating bumper covers are an extremely rare sight for me.

As far as any pristine 50s vehicle, I bet someone sank a ton of money to have it back into pristine shape too. I know someone who restored an old 50s ford truck and I forget what his customer paid but recall it being an extremely large sum of money.


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Agree that most 50's vehicles have had a ton of coin dumped in them. However this particular one was one of those rare unrestored beauties probably driven by "someone's maiden aunt" who passed on and left it to her nephew, like we all used to dream about finding in a garage somewhere. Still, I see much GM iron all over the place from that era, self destructing bumpers or no. The trucks especially are all over the place and not restored either but still working -- usually with gardening supplies or farm stuff on the back. Like the energizer bunny -- they just keep working. I have no doubt my BMW will have long been recycled into another one before these things disappear from the roads.:angel:


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I use do own an 80s Chevroletdown as did a few friends. We routinely talk about how rare it is to see one on the road today. But what is even more rare is a Dodge.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

evtee said:


> I think it's unfair to say "spend a little bit more and get X car". It goes back to adding options which will end up costing significantly more money. If I wanted to get a fully loaded X5 / ML I would've needed to put in around 25k more than what I paid for the GLK. Sure the loaded price of a GLK is close to the base of the ML / X5, but you need to add options to those cars too.


Loaded GLK is about $52k and you won't be getting any discounts.

A well-equipped X5d stickers for about $63k. After discounts, it's closer to $53-55k.

When you're spending that kind of money anyways, an extra $3-4k isn't a big deal.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

AutoUnion said:


> Loaded GLK is about $52k and you won't be getting any discounts.
> 
> A well-equipped X5d stickers for about $63k. After discounts, it's closer to $53-55k.
> 
> When you're spending that kind of money anyways, an extra $3-4k isn't a big deal.


You can get GLK's discounted, heck you can do European Deliveries(7% off but if you read MB forums you can find ED people who give out 9% off) on them at the very least. But all the typical methods of how to get a MB discounted still apply here. The thing is most people can't get a MB discounted near as much as a BMW will get discounted. Heck I can't get a BMW discounted as much as most on here seem to. I shopped the X5 diesels back in December and they were not down to $53-55k after discounts that they would apply for me but they did have decent amount of options and I forget what they stickered for.


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

I equipped a GLK250 with the bare minimum options I require and compared to similarly outfitted 328xi wagon. (I'm assuming the 328 xd wagon will price about the same as the 328xi wagon). The MB is $2300 less! How much more of a difference would you expect in a x3d?


----------



## evtee (May 4, 2013)

AutoUnion said:


> Loaded GLK is about $52k and you won't be getting any discounts.
> 
> A well-equipped X5d stickers for about $63k. After discounts, it's closer to $53-55k.
> 
> When you're spending that kind of money anyways, an extra $3-4k isn't a big deal.


We're not as fortunate as our neighbours down south who gets massive discounts on cars or a modest starting price. Again, my loaded GLK is about $56k before taxes in Canada and an equivalent equipped X5d would've touched close to $80k before taxes. Let's be generous and give the X5 a $10k discount which is improbable in Canada. That is still a whopping $24k :yikes: difference which makes no financial or utility sense if you don't need a larger car.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

evtee said:


> We're not as fortunate as our neighbours down south who gets massive discounts on cars or a modest starting price. Again, my loaded GLK is about $56k before taxes in Canada and an equivalent equipped X5d would've touched close to $80k before taxes. Let's be generous and give the X5 a $10k discount which is improbable in Canada. That is still a whopping $24k :yikes: difference which makes no financial or utility sense if you don't need a larger car.


How would a similar ML350 BT be?


----------



## evtee (May 4, 2013)

Snipe656 said:


> How would a similar ML350 BT be?


A similarly equipped ML350 BT would cost $71k before taxes / negotiation.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Mercedes GLK CDI: 24/33 mpg 200hp/368 ft-lb
Audi Q5 3.0TDI: 24/31 mpg 240 hp/428 ft-lb

Pricing:

Q5 TDI

loaded Prem. Plus [base] trim (NAV, B&O audio, Xenons, metallic paint, MMI plus, advanced key, side assist)
*~$51,795 + $500 (if you want sports seats)
*
You get go to the Prestige Trim (gives you S-Line pkg, etc) for ~$55k.

Comparable GLK 250 CDI (to Prem. Plus) with leather, Prem. Pkg, Multimedia Pkg, Media Interface, heated seats, sat radio, keyless go, parktronic, lane tracking package etc would be: *$53k*










The Q5 TDI just made the GLK CDI look irrelevant, especially for those looking for higher-spec models. Faster, just as economical, and a little less money too. Not to mention, the better interior and driving dynamics. It's a no brainer.


----------



## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

^ I'm curious where you obtain Q5 TDI pricing? Is it officially announced?


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

bayoucity said:


> ^ I'm curious where you obtain Q5 TDI pricing? Is it officially announced?


Yup, with A6/A7 TDI pricing also. I made a thread in this section.

but here's the link: http://wot.motortrend.com/2014-audi-a4-a5-q5-make-220-hp-get-price-bumps-377935.html#axzz2W96Fj72l

I then added the price of the options packages from their website (they didn't change for MY14)


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Great comparo! The Q5 is going to be the one to beat no doubt about it. Now if they would just start sending them over Of course, I haven't seen any GLK diesels here either, so there must be something holding up the pipeline.:dunno:


----------



## evtee (May 4, 2013)

AutoUnion said:


> Yup, with A6/A7 TDI pricing also. I made a thread in this section.
> 
> but here's the link: http://wot.motortrend.com/2014-audi-a4-a5-q5-make-220-hp-get-price-bumps-377935.html#axzz2W96Fj72l
> 
> I then added the price of the options packages from their website (they didn't change for MY14)


Nice pricing and fuel economy figures. 31mpg is still no better than my 335d or 250, but very nice indeed. For people who are looking for that performance the Q5 is looking to be a very good choice.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

An interesting turn of events. My brother's VW CC recently got totaled, so I recommended the GLK BT and the Q5 TDI.

He ended up getting a fantastic deal on the GLK, so he's picking up the Mercedes by the end of the week. Audi dealers wouldn't budge off sticker.

He got a near-loaded model (everything but lightning and sport pack) for $40,XXX. MSRP on the car was $47,135. Almost $11k less than the cheapest Q5 TDI. He did say he preferred the Audi, but it was too much.

Fantastic deals on leftover '13 BTs it seems. Can't wait to finally take it for a spin.


----------



## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

^ @ Autounion, let us know what you reckon after spending sometimes behind GLK BT.

BTW, Q5 TDI isn't available yet, or is it?


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

One of my clients now has a GLK BT and I have gotten to spend some time in it via different outings. I am really liking that little SUV, if I were ever back in the market for a small SUV it would be high up on my lists of ones to seriously consider. I'd probably search out one that had next to no options in order to drive the price down as much as possible since I am content with the standard features.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

bayoucity said:


> ^ @ Autounion, let us know what you reckon after spending sometimes behind GLK BT.
> 
> BTW, Q5 TDI isn't available yet, or is it?


They're just trickling in now with the A6 and A7 TDIs. Am looking forward to the A7 myself.

- Sent from Galaxy S4


----------



## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Another nice looking small SUV is the Porsche Macan. Not available yet, and will be pricey, and some are saying it's a Q5 clone, but it is nice looking. If they would bring it to the U.S.A. with a high-end diesel, then it would be interesting.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-porsche-macan-turbo-spy-photos-news


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

^^^ yeah C&D is saying its built on a Q5 chassis. Other than that its all Porche, so they say. I doubt they will offer it in a diesel, but I would imagine a 300HP/500 ft. lb turbo diesel would be a nice fit. Would put an epic smile on your face all the time and really embarrass some "performance" cars. I actually quite like the look of it beside the front, the profile reminds me a whole lot of the Infiniti fx


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Hoooper said:


> ^^^ yeah C&D is saying its built on a Q5 chassis. Other than that its all Porche, so they say. I doubt they will offer it in a diesel, but I would imagine a 300HP/500 ft. lb turbo diesel would be a nice fit. Would put an epic smile on your face all the time and really embarrass some "performance" cars. I actually quite like the look of it beside the front, the profile reminds me a whole lot of the Infiniti fx


Yup, based off the fantastic Q5. There are rumors of a twin turbo V6 Macan Turbo. It's going to be a fantastic car inside and out.

- Sent from Galaxy S4


----------



## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

Again, I'll like to know where is x3 diesel since Audi Q5 3.0 TDI has officially arrived.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

^ Yup, it's here and looks fantastic in that shade of blue!


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Audi is going to be eating BMW's lunch if they are not careful!  The new stuff coming out of the VA(P)G is pretty sllck IMHO. I imagine the Macan won't show up here with a diesel but it should be coming along in a couple of years -- since you know they will have them in Europe. Pricewise I suspect it will be somewhere around the T-egg Sport (until you lard in the options) -- below the Cayenne but not too far.:angel:


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

UncleJ said:


> Audi is going to be eating BMW's lunch if they are not careful! The new stuff coming out of the VA(P)G is pretty sllck IMHO. I imagine the Macan won't show up here with a diesel but it should be coming along in a couple of years -- since you know they will have them in Europe. Pricewise I suspect it will be somewhere around the T-egg Sport (until you lard in the options) -- below the Cayenne but not too far.:angel:


It would make sense for them to bring a Macan Diesel, especially since it is already certified in the Q5.

The Macan is supposed to launch in the Spring with two high power variants first. Two 6 cylinders, one blown. The 2.0T is supposed to be a late introduction to the US market.

- Sent from Galaxy S4


----------



## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

Q5 please that torque beats out MB, although Ive alwayd like the GLK now they bring it in DIESEL WTF MB, BMW you will soon LOOSE a lot of clients to Audi and MB !!!!


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Axel61 said:


> Q5 please that torque beats out MB, although Ive alwayd like the GLK now they bring it in DIESEL WTF MB, BMW you will soon LOOSE a lot of clients to Audi and MB !!!!


You're not missing much by not getting the GLK. I finally got some extended time in it. I'll put up some impressions when I'm at my laptop.

- Sent from Galaxy S4


----------



## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

BTW I test drove FINALLY the X1 I6 and the engine did not impress me at ALL!! I guess the DIESEL has spoiled me on this, it had the M pkg and the car was sweet, NOW what we need is for BMWoA to bring it in DIESEL platform then you got me leaning in trading the MB 230 for it!!! No i DONT plan to get rid of my BEAST 335d ok!!


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

A-U, looking forward to your impressions of the GLK diesel -- it has been on my radar but still has not reached the dealers around here (or at least that they will admit to having one to test drive). In fact, my local Audi store still has not gotten a Q5TDI yet either!


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

UncleJ said:


> A-U, looking forward to your impressions of the GLK diesel -- it has been on my radar but still has not reached the dealers around here (or at least that they will admit to having one to test drive). In fact, my local Audi store still has not gotten a Q5TDI yet either!


I'll get it up by tonight 

I don't understand how dealers in Silicon Valley STILL don't have the GLK CDI. It's been out for months now. They might have sold all their MY13s and are waiting for the 14s to hit?

I'm also shocked by the Q5TDIs. Silicon Valley is a major Audi area. Even here in the Northeast, every dealer got a handful a few weeks ago. The ones closest to me were all sold, so I couldn't drive one yet


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

AutoUnion said:


> I'll get it up by tonight
> 
> I don't understand how dealers in Silicon Valley STILL don't have the GLK CDI. It's been out for months now. They might have sold all their MY13s and are waiting for the 14s to hit?
> 
> I'm also shocked by the Q5TDIs. Silicon Valley is a major Audi area. Even here in the Northeast, every dealer got a handful a few weeks ago. The ones closest to me were all sold, so I couldn't drive one yet


Tesla and Toyota intercepting all diesel shipments to the area. Lol.


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, how about somebody putting a SUV around the BMW 3.0L Diesel engine that has some decent off-road ability like the VW Egg/Audi Q7. 

Admittedly, the X5 should be great for going to movies and parking on curbs....

I know, wrong thread.


----------

