# M2 with 300hp



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

if it's 300 hp and 2600 lbs or less, I dont care what it looks like...it makes the short list for the rx8 replacement.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

hts said:


> if I could get into something as small


 literally, or figuratively?

:lmao:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> Oh
> 
> 
> 
> ...










you and your ass-colored glasses. :rofl:


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## Johann (Apr 17, 2002)

I think 2600-2800 lbs is more likely.

Jonathan


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

The Roadstergal said:


> There are cars that light on the current US market. :dunno:


Nothing that meets BMW's stringent standards for chasis rigidity. Find a car (The Lotus doesn't count) that's anywhere near the price point of a 2 series (sub $30K) that weighs less than 2,500 lbs AND has a chasis rigidity of 10,000Nm or more.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

Any pre-pics before AB posts the scans tomorrow?
I wonder if it is Bangle-ized?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

The HACK said:


> Nothing that meets BMW's stringent standards for chasis rigidity. Find a car (The Lotus doesn't count) that's anywhere near the price point of a 2 series (sub $30K) that weighs less than 2,500 lbs AND has a chasis rigidity of 10,000Nm or more.


what's the rigidity of the MINI?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

atyclb said:


> what's the rigidity of the MINI?


found it.

24,500Nm


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

atyclb said:


> what's the rigidity of the MINI?


MINI doesn't weigh less than 2,500 lbs, no? Isn't it closer to 2,900 lbs?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Cooper=2524

CooperS=2678


close enough


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

The HACK said:


> Nothing that meets BMW's stringent standards for chasis rigidity. Find a car (The Lotus doesn't count) that's anywhere near the price point of a 2 series (sub $30K) that weighs less than 2,500 lbs AND has a chasis rigidity of 10,000Nm or more.


Hey, BMW's a pioneer, no? :eeps:

Maybe the ass-looking imparts rigidity. 

Those standards must be new, though. Lance was telling me the first strut bar he put on his E30 race car _bent_.


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> ...apparently getting a detuned S54 with 300 hp. :eeps:


I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this... What has been "detuned" can be "retuned". 

Yeehaaaa! A 330+ HP, ~2500 lb, BMW! Where do I sign up?


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## hector (Jul 14, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> According to an article in a german magazine, the M2 (M version of the upcoming 1 Series (E80)) is apparently getting a detuned S54 with 300 hp.
> 
> Lots of magnesium, aluminium material mix on body parts.
> 
> ...


pardon my ignorance but which engine is the s54?, is that the current m3 engine?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

hector said:


> pardon my ignorance but which engine is the s54?, is that the current m3 engine?


yep


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> It would surprise me if that car came with the S54. That engine is just too heavy for a 2200lbs. car. 300hp, though... :jawdrop:
> 
> I might have to forget my Elise dreams...


Yeah, there's just no way; not with the iron-block S54. If it is that light, with that chunk of pig iron sitting up front it won't have a 50/50 weight distribution.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Guys, the 2200 lb number comes from the base 1/2 series, which has a 1.6L four cylinder. An M2 version is probably another 400 lbs heavier, though more I'd guess if it has the iron lump S54. 
Last I heard the M2 was gonna be a 220 hp four, but I didn't think the US would get a 4 cylinder M, so maybe this rumor is true.

Won't the S54 be discontinued by the time this car comes out in 2007?


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

There was an article not long ago in either _Bimmer_ or _Roundel_ that discussed a new casting technology where BMW is fusing aluminum cylinders into a magnesium head...I believe it was their F1 engines, but maybe this will be trickling down to production.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

OBS3SSION said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this... What has been "detuned" can be "retuned".
> 
> Yeehaaaa! A 330+ HP, ~2500 lb, BMW! Where do I sign up?


No, it can't.

The S54 in the last two years of M roadster/coupe production only puts out 315hp, and most of that is the way the exhaust is designed that the CAT needed to move forward by a few inches. There's no way you'd be able to gain those lost HP back, and still retain a street legal car (in California at least).



bren said:


> There was an article not long ago in either _Bimmer_ or _Roundel_ that discussed a new casting technology where BMW is fusing aluminum cylinders into a magnesium head...I believe it was their F1 engines, but maybe this will be trickling down to production.


That technology is still one generation away. If the same block design were to get that new cast, it would've gotten a new engine designation as well. And there's no way the S54 block can be made from aluminum, it wouldn't survive the fastest piston velocity in production.

No way in hell the "M2" will come in less than 2,500 lbs. We should count our blessings if it comes in at 2,900 lbs with either the S54, or the rumored twin turbo, 3.0 liter inline 6...Now, that could possibly come in about 2,700 lbs and still pump out somewhere north of 300hp.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Photo


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Can we all chip in and buy Baumann a good scanner so he would'nt have to use his digital camera, and we'd all get better scans? I'll pledge $5.00.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

The HACK said:


> Can we all chip in and buy Baumann a good scanner so he would'nt have to use his digital camera, and we'd all get better scans? I'll pledge $5.00.


I have a good scanner, unfortunately it's at the office. I have forgotten to take the magazine with me today.

Keep the $5 and have a drink from me


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## Pete Teoh (Jan 27, 2002)

Where are the doilies?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

looks like a squished X3


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Oh man, please tell me BMW isn't going for the small windows and high sill like Audi. Doesn't convey any sensation of speed, I hate that. BMW's used to have such nice big windows.

I guess these days looks is more important than the driving experience huh?


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## mquetel (Jan 30, 2003)

That car looks hot... I want one.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Actually I take it back - the sills are low in front, high in back - so that shouldn't really affect your view of the road or sense of speed.
Looks pretty nice anyway.
My guess is $40k loaded - anyone else?


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## Josh (PA) (Jan 21, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Photo


What happened to the curvy 2 series? The nice looking one shown in previous spy pics (See 4 series thread for reference). I really liked the look of those spy pics.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Dawg90 said:


> Actually I take it back - the sills are low in front, high in back - so that shouldn't really affect your view of the road or sense of speed.
> Looks pretty nice anyway.
> My guess is $40k loaded - anyone else?


$40K base, $50K loaded.

If those performance specs are right, there's no way BMW can justify selling this car at anything less than $40K. This car will run CIRCLES around M3, M4, M5 and the M6. That's horsepower to weight ratio BETTER than cars costing 7-8X, probably with more usable space and better track times.

BMW would be very stupid, indeed, if this car is made to those specs and not charge over $50K for it.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Man, you guys really need to stop the b1tching :jack:

Just hope the rumor is true as stated; even +500lbs, it would kick ass.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Unless the 1/2er is a LOT bigger than I think it's going to be, the M version really should have a new, rev-happy 4-banger in the grandest tradition of the E30M3. This is basically going to be a E46M3 in a new body, which is fine, I guess, if the M3 in E90 guise is going to essentially be what the E39M5 just was (even bigger, with a V8). But all BMW would be doing is shifting the badges around, and not creating/entering any new markets. If so, then I agree with HACK, the price will be in the $50k (i.e. E46M3) range.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Well so much for that.....hasn't it been said that BMW isn't going to bring any hatches to the US?


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

It's already been said that Europe's M2 will have a 4 cylinder - so if the M54 rumor is true, they are just shoehorning a bigger engine for the badge hounds in the US. 

If the base 2 series is like $25k, or $30k loaded with a six cylinder - then an M version will be no more than $38k or so.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Dawg90 said:


> It's already been said that Europe's M2 will have a 4 cylinder - so if the M54 rumor is true, they are just shoehorning a bigger engine for the badge hounds in the US.
> 
> If the base 2 series is like $25k, or $30k loaded with a six cylinder - then an M version will be no more than $38k or so.


Hmm. $40K for a lightweight, 240ish hp, 6 speed, RWD sports car that can seat 4, eh?

That would be a good deal, if it weren't for the fact that the RX-8 is easily $10K cheaper.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

That price difference would disappear 3 years later when the RX-8 is worth $15k and the M2 worth $30k.



JST said:


> Hmm. $40K for a lightweight, 240ish hp, 6 speed, RWD sports car that can seat 4, eh?
> 
> That would be a good deal, if it weren't for the fact that the RX-8 is easily $10K cheaper.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> Man, you guys really need to stop the b1tching :jack:
> 
> Just hope the rumor is true as stated; even +500lbs, it would kick ass.


 :thumbup: :clap:


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

JST said:


> That would be a good deal, if it weren't for the fact that the RX-8 is easily $10K cheaper.


I'm utterly in love with the RX-8, but BMW could beat it on street driveability. I'd like to have an RX-8 for the track, but with its fuelsucking and oilburning, I wouldn't want it as a daily driver. In such a light car, even the M54 would be smokin' (figuratively).


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

The Roadstergal said:


> I'm utterly in love with the RX-8, but BMW could beat it on street driveability. I'd like to have an RX-8 for the track, but with its fuelsucking and oilburning, I wouldn't want it as a daily driver. In such a light car, even the M54 would be smokin' (figuratively).


Fuel sucking and oil burning, OK. The rotary is still a curiosity, in many ways. I am also not convinced that a notional 240 hp BMW 2 liter would have any better low speed tractibility than the RX-8, though.

The point about resale is a solid one.

You're right, of course--the current M54 makes the Z4 move out, and a 250 hp valvetronic version of same (or even a 200ish hp Valvetronic 2.5 liter) would be great in a light car.

Personally, I will be surprised if a 6 cylinder 1 or 2 series weighs much less than 3K lbs in street trim. Even that would be nice, and I will be very happy if BMW proves me wrong.

Until then, I'll just have to make do with my piggy E46.


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## Johann (Apr 17, 2002)

bren said:


> There was an article not long ago in either _Bimmer_ or _Roundel_ that discussed a new casting technology where BMW is fusing aluminum cylinders into a magnesium head...I believe it was their F1 engines, but maybe this will be trickling down to production.


I recently read an unrelated article that also stated BMW was planning on using magnesium engine blocks with aluminum cylinder liners and an aluminum "girdle" for the crankshaft bearings.

IMO there are certainly some issues involved with proving the technology is applicable to mass production that hold this application off a few model generations into the future.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

i don't see how this can be done. :dunno: 

1. 2200 lbs is very very light even for the 1.6L I4 coupe/hatch whatever.
2. adding and addtional 400 lbs of engine to 2200 lb cars? what will it do to the balance and handling? :yikes: 
3. a 2200 lb car with a hood long enough for an I6?


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

This might not become the most expensive BMW in recent history, but it surely might evoke the biggest emotion and perhaps passionate response as any model in recent history...stay tuned I guess...


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