# Older, Higher Mileage Diesels not Economically Viable?



## Attacking Mid (Dec 11, 2009)

I like to buy mostly-depreciated BMW's with 100K+ miles, catch up all the maintenance/repairs, and drive them for many more years. I do all my own work.

I've been poking around at some later E53's and earlier E70's, when I stumbled upon a cherry 2010 X35d with 170K miles. That's more miles than I was looking for, but the vehicle looks beautiful. Having never really considered a BMW diesel, I've invested a little time researching the pros/cons of these machines. At first, I was enamored by the prospects of better fuel economy and towing proficiency (camper and jet skis). However, as I read more about the (essentially) unavoidable costs of maintaining the emissions systems, I came to the conclusion that buying a higher mileage BMW diesel would require the acceptance of about $2500 - $5000 in unavoidable repair costs by/about the time the mileage hits the 200K total.

I know many folks are deleting their emissions systems to avoid/reduce those repair costs, but I am not really interested in doing that. So my conclusion is that it just isn't economically viable to buy an older diesel and drive it well beyond 200K miles. Would love it if someone could change my mind, as the diesel otherwise is very appealing to me. Am I wrong in my conclusions?

AM.


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## SmokinCummins (Sep 16, 2018)

If you want to stay on the safe side, avoid a high mileage diesel using HPCR injection. Doubly so of it also has emissions components.

If you like to gamble, grab one and hope it's a good one. 

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Pay now or pay later, but pay you will.

If my emergent repair costs at 200K miles are only $5000 total then I will be well pleased. At our current rate, 200K miles is ten years away.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

I do most of the maintenance on a 2010 335d with 113K miles. Car was ordered in Aug 2009, built Sept 2009 and took delivery in Nov 2009 at the BMW Performance center. It is one of the first model year 2010. It is stock and it is not a very reliable car. With this car, you need an alternate transportation for time when car is in the shop.

Here in Atlanta, we have 5 BMW dealers. Recently, I had to replace the motor mounts and a plastic coolant hose that was leaking. These parts are not stocked anywhere locally. Dealer has to order the parts, usually taking 2 to 3 days to arrive. If you go online, it is about a week. Except for maintenance items (oil, filter, etc), it is very annoying that most repair parts are not readily available and usually expensive.

Here is a partial list of parts that have been replaced on my car:
17 injectors (done before new DDE software and an approved BMW procedure for walnut blasting was available)
glow plug controller
main vibration damper pulley
vacuum hoses
2 SCR tanks
EGR cooler
rear right LED tail light
swirl flap actuator
AC blower
SCR metering valve
Throttle actuator
motor mount
multiple DDE software update
FRM


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

Anecdotally, I haven't read too many accounts of M57 or N57-equipped cars in the 200k mile range yet. It may be too early to draw conclusions.

However, in general to keep a car for the long run it's prudent to budget for maintenance - I plan for around $2k annually but I don't do my own work. (Still cheaper than a car payment!)


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## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

For what it's worth, my 2012 (67,000 miles) has been much more reliable over the years than my 2010 (110,000 miles). Knowing what I know today, I would rather buy post-LCI (2011-2013) than pre-LCI (2009-2010)


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

*Santo Fumo!*



montr said:


> I do most of the maintenance on a 2010 335d with 113K miles. It is stock and it is not a very reliable car. With this car, you need an alternate transportation for time when car is in the shop.
> 
> Here in Atlanta, we have 5 BMW dealers. Recently, I had to replace the motor mounts and a plastic coolant hose that was leaking. These parts are not stocked anywhere locally. Dealer has to order the parts, usually taking 2 to 3 days to arrive. If you go online, it is about a week. Except for maintenance items (oil, filter, etc), it is very annoying that most repair parts are not readily available and usually expensive.
> 
> ...


Knock knock knock on wood that never happens to me!

In Wisconsin there are two franchised dealers, both 250 miles away. The X5 is our only car.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

jck66 said:


> Anecdotally, I haven't read too many accounts of M57 or N57-equipped cars in the 200k mile range yet. It may be too early to draw conclusions.


Actually, there are many that have reached that mileage. See https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1080626

My 2010 is currently at 134K or something, I'm driving it much less lately. Since it has had all the Emissions system replaced (except for SCR cat), I expect it to reach 200K+ with little additional costs. Not sure what I'll do when the next emissions crap hits me, though.

Need to replace harmonic balancer soon...


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 11, 2009)

You guys are doing a poor job of changing my mind. 

On my gassers, I've certainly invested a fair amount of "sweat equity", but generally you can minimize the cost of repairs if you DIY. The problem as I see it with the diesels is that the price of parts that eventually fail can quickly surpass the value of an older vehicle. 

I suppose if there were more of these on the road there might be some lower cost alternative parts suppliers as there are with gasser and chassis parts. With BMW discontinuing diesel sales going forward, it doesn't appear that situation is likely to improve - perhaps even grow worse in the coming years.

I guess I'm going to have to pass on this whim of owning a diesel X5.

Thanks for the conversation,

AM.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

I think dieels with fewer problems get driven hard. Stop and go or in town driving just does not cut it.

FWIW mine has 90k miles and so far has been problem free. 90k miles is nothing, but I too was a bit anxious an was expecting trouble by now. Most drives are 245 miles stretch including some mountain climbing (sea level to 7,700ft or vice versa). Love this car.

No question that a N55 3.5i is the less risky option, but I still have zero regrets with the X5 diesel nearly 6 years into it.


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## kozlio (Mar 14, 2018)

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1080626&page=11
Has a list of 335d drivers with some cars near 200k mls


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't view 100k miles to be high miles on a car at all given that it represents a little under 2 years of driving for me. I am the only driver of my cars and split the miles up between them. I log around 1k miles per week between my 100 mile per day commute and having a life outside of work. Gassers including PHEV are not an option at all. Whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered.

My 2014 535dx bought new in 2013 is only at 115k miles and climbing. My 2012 X5 35d CPO at 52k miles in 2014 is only at 204k miles and climbing. Both cars have been very reliable since they are driven hard and see long runs on the highway. The X5 is nagging me about replacing the DPF but I won't need to do anything about it for a while. I am monitoring DPF regenerations and ash loading with Carly app.

I am not at all worried about resale values. Both cars are long term keepers and won't be for sale anytime soon. As for how long they will remain economically viable is still too early to tell.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

My 2011 X5 35d has 153k miles on it now. So far it has had emissions problems starting around ~100k (although BMW took care of it), injectors replaced (probably my fault due to not replacing broken engine cowling quickly enough ... car is never garaged and sits outside all the time), egr valve replacement, throttle body valve replacement, all struts replaced (normal wear and tear), MAF replaced, fuel pressure sensor replaced, thermostat replaced (probably needs to be replaced again), and some other misc stuff. Now my turbo seals are worn and I get oil going through the charge air pipes and cooler. It gets out of the return pipe somehow (blown out?) and on everything in the front right of the engine. Maybe there's a leak somewhere but I can't find it. I am also worried about the HPFP going, the water pump, and the harmonic balancer/damper. Anything else? I will say the ZF transmission has been flawless and seems bulletproof. The engine still runs like it's brand new, lots of torque and great mpg -- I am spoiled by it -- what other new vehicle can compare?


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

I stand corrected! I don't frequent the E90 forum so I was unaware. (In my F10 bubble...)

Zowie, I hope my N57 lasts to 200k!


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## kozlio (Mar 14, 2018)

Quite a few repairs eh. Glad it’s pulling strong still.
Where do you buy the green beast headlamps?


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## jfxogara (Oct 26, 2012)

I get that you do not want to delete but a Goldilocks option might be to tune out the SCR system and yank the EGR. You still get nice clean exhaust with the soot captured in the DPF, less CBU due to removing the EGR (less of an issue with the X5 anyway) and no worries about the SCR catalyst going south or the dreaded DEF tank seizing up on you.


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## Armand (Dec 20, 2009)

FredoinSF said:


> I think diesels with fewer problems get driven hard. Stop and go or in town driving just does not cut it.


I have owned my 2010 E70 X5 Diesel since new. It has about 87K miles on it, predominantly driven in town for its entire life. Overall, a very reliable and resilient vehicle to my experience.


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## Ozer (Sep 17, 2015)

Does Colorado have emission testing? I would say you will be much happier and less emissions related repairs if you did buy the x5.
Sound like anything else you can clean/fix/replace but like said above.. around 150k is when most things start to show up. 
The DPF has a reminder that will nag you to replace it, starting around 155k miles, hence why i said to delete it all if you can.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

As others have said, much has to do with how the vehicle is driven. Our 2011 335D has 105K miles. It actually has been the most reliable car we've ever owned. Was only towed once when it blew a steering rack seal. Had all the usual recalls, one carbon cleaning, and one SCR tank replacement. Has all the original injectors. Fortunately here in NJ we are surrounded by dealers and they give loaner cars thus being at the dealer for a few days is not an issue. Struts were replaced only because I could not stand the designed bouncy ride from the rear suspension. Because of a recent move, my driving pattern has changed and will typically be shorter trips, which is not good for a diesel. I try to only use the car on longer trips. Because of this I think it's time to sell her to someone with a longer distance driving needs. An electric car would perfectly fit my new driving pattern.

Not that it matters I never used any fuel additives and do have the fuel filter changed regularly.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

KeithS said:


> ...An electric car would perfectly fit my new driving pattern.


Be sure to read this thread and understand the root of their problem. They don't.
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1299823

I live on an Island. Our power comes via a five mile underwater cable that is just in the process of being replaced after an ice floe-berg damaged it last winter. The new cable has the same capacity as the old - ~2.5 MWe, and the same capacity as our old diesel generators.

Our cooperative power company - a legacy of the REA - is in the process of installing smart-meters, and will then control high loads such as hot water heaters and particularly instant tankless hot water heaters.

Which all is to say, the infrastructure, the "grid", is fully loaded now, everywhere.


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

I got them from ijdmtoy.com last year during their xmas sale. You can do any color with the bluetooth phone app. It's not bad, wish they were a bit brighter though.

I do a lot of repairs myself so cost is much lower, except for replacing all the injectors. That was a big one.

If the turbo seals ever get so bad that it's going through a lot of oil I will either buy another car or replace the turbos with a hybrid turbo and larger intercooler and enjoy a 400hp monster.



kozlio said:


> Quite a few repairs eh. Glad it's pulling strong still.
> Where do you buy the green beast headlamps?


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Doug Huffman said:


> Be sure to read this thread and understand the root of their problem. They don't.
> https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1299823
> 
> I live on an Island.


I was referring to a REAL electric car (Tesla). There is one in my garage now that belongs to my son. It is not that picky about voltage as it can charge on just about anything between 100-277 volts AC. Superchargers are DC.

Being on an island with a limited electric supply is of course a special situation and does not represent the majority of cases.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 11, 2009)

While I'm generally one to avoid modification and strive to maintain what the engineers designed, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to modifying the emissions on an older diesel BMW if I thought it was practical and effective. My particular county does not CURRENTLY have emissions testing, though we are the exception among the more populous front range counties. Mass immigration is rapidly changing the politics and demographics of our state resulting in increasing liklihood of such testing being implemented in the not-too-distant future. I DO fear I could be forced in the coming years to either re-install all the emissions systems or sell it as-is to someone outside the area. Of course, if the current trends continue, I may want to move anyway!

AM.


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## kozlio (Mar 14, 2018)

So back to the topic of high mileage, see these fast beasts here. Some have 300k+ kms. One rocket had half a mil. Not usa spec (emissions equipment) but still, just remove them if u yr local jurisdiction is lenient.
https://youtu.be/xzL6FXJrJI0


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Attacking Mid said:


> However, as I read more about the (essentially) unavoidable costs of maintaining the emissions systems, I came to the conclusion that buying a higher mileage BMW diesel would require the acceptance of about $2500 - $5000 in unavoidable repair costs by/about the time the mileage hits the 200K total..


Interesting.

Which parts are on your list which costs $5000??

Assume you do the labor, so it has to be quite a few items that add up to that 2500-5000 number.

Also does you list start at 0 miles? or at 50k when the warrnaty is done? Or at 170k?

Finally why ARE you looking at BMWs? There are way cheaper cars to own. Spending a few $k a year to have the driving dynamics and comfort of a BMW ("for many more years") would seem to be reasonable,


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

KeithS said:


> Being on an island with a limited electric supply is of course a special situation and does not represent the majority of cases.


The US ***8216;grid***8217; is a limited electric supply. The Electric Car Emperor just does not know it - - YET.

Consider the effect of Kant***8217;s Categorical Imperative, ***8220;Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.***8221; The effect that all cars must be electric. The Emperor***8217;s nakedness would be obvious.


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## robnitro (Aug 3, 2016)

The grid is problematic and how would people who live in urban areas charge their cars when they park on the street and work at places where they park on the street? These are the short trip drivers that supposedly would be ideal to drive electric but it would not be simple to access power for charging...


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