# ZHP vs. 330i SP? Help please-



## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

I love my 330i w/ZHP. I don't know when folks have typically began experiencing the rough idle but I have had mine for 6 weeks and the idle is rock solid so far. This car is so much fun to drive and I haven't seen another ZHP in my area yet.


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## glaws (Feb 21, 2002)

AF-RX8 said:


> Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black ?!!?
> 
> Becareful before listening to this advice, the poster above has claimed a few different things when it comes to the ZHP (I think he wants one but can't admit it) and I don't know what you should believe to be correct ... also whatever you do, don't question this guy because he is VERY sensitive and has no problem blowing people off no matter how long he knows you
> for.


 Now, don't be :stickpokeat the Hack. I know that he is uch:, but he is harmless and very :bustingupfrom time to time.


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

AF-RX8 said:


> Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black ?!!?
> 
> Becareful before listening to this advice, the poster above has claimed a few different things when it comes to the ZHP (I think he wants one but can't admit it) and I don't know what you should believe to be correct ... also whatever you do, don't question this guy because he is VERY sensitive and has no problem blowing people off no matter how long he knows you for.


Well said! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

Before deciding on the ZHP package, drive it. You may find the exhaust drone unbearable. The two things I didn't like about the package were the fuzzy wheel and the exhaust drone.

The car looks great, but the cost of just those things I want from the package was just to high to justify it. I think I got a much better value sticking with a standard SP.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

Epi330 said:


> And, BTW, yes, this is not an M3... it's much better - 2 more doors and more suitable for the long trips.


 :rofl: uh huh ! ah yaaaaa..... domestic projects work better in the ZHP..


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

If the only thing you're concerned about is the wheels, then buy the ZHP, and swap the wheels with with someone afterward. I'm sure you could get a set of M68's plus some cash.

I wouldn't mind most of the additions that the ZHP adds, but I don't think I'd want the wheels (heavy, hard to clean, and IMO ugly).


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## BloodRedHog (Mar 9, 2004)

rumratt said:


> If the only thing you're concerned about is the wheels, then buy the ZHP, and swap the wheels with with someone afterward. I'm sure you could get a set of M68's plus some cash.
> 
> I wouldn't mind most of the additions that the ZHP adds, but I don't think I'd want the wheels (heavy, hard to clean, and IMO ugly).


Is it possible to get M68's in 18"?


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

xspeedy said:


> Before deciding on the ZHP package, drive it. You may find the exhaust drone unbearable. The two things I didn't like about the package were the fuzzy wheel and the exhaust drone.
> 
> The car looks great, but the cost of just those things I want from the package was just to high to justify it. I think I got a much better value sticking with a standard SP.


I have driven my ZHP for about 14K miles and the 'drone' has never been an issue with me...also the fuzzy wheel is much more comfortable if your car has been parked in the sun awhile.


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

rumratt said:


> If the only thing you're concerned about is the wheels, then buy the ZHP, and swap the wheels with with someone afterward. I'm sure you could get a set of M68's plus some cash.
> 
> I wouldn't mind most of the additions that the ZHP adds, but I don't think I'd want the wheels (heavy, hard to clean, and IMO ugly).


Hey UGLY fish avatar boy, 

If you think these wheels are ugly you are high!


EDIT: Added another pic...


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

greginaz1 said:


> If you think these wheels are ugly you are high!


:str8pimpi



> Hey UGLY fish avatar boy,


My fish is prettier than your wheels.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

Having owned a 330i SP and now a 330i ZHP, I can say in all honesty that the ZHP package is mostly an appearance package. The difference in handling and 'feel' between the two cars is almost un-noticeable, and I actually like the gearing in the std. 330i better. If I could do it all over, I'd go back to the 330i SP, and save the extra $$$.

And as far as Hack's comment on how it's easier to complain about their problems on a message board, than to not complain... that's true. But the diffference is that people who don't have problems received exactly what they expected from their car: good performance, fun to drive, reasonably reliable. The people that have had persistent or frequent problems received a car that was not what they expected, and certainly not always worthy of the price they paid for it. I've been living with the ZHP stall/bad idle/uneven acceleration since the day I took delivery over a year ago. And when BMW denies the problem, and seemingly offers no hint of resolution for it, that leaves a bit of bad taste in your mouth. If it was a $9000 car, then sure, who cares? But when you spend $40K+ for a car, a person tends to get a little upset.

Not that I'm making excuses for My_butt_stinks, who takes things to an all-time extreme...

My advice, if you're set on the ZHP, I would at least wait until BMW comes out with a fix for the stall problem (assuming they do), and the fix is good. If they don't, then buy the SP, and upgrade the sway bars. You'll be good to go.



killajoe said:


> This car has the best sounding engine I've ever heard. It sounds good at low rpm. It sounds great hitting that 3000 - 5000 middle band. It sounds awesome revving up to 4000 and then letting it engine brake all the way down (reminds me of the GT3 in Porche Unleashed).


That's what I said about the 330i SP. With the ZHP, all you hear is the exhaust, which completely drowns out the engine note until about 4000 RPM.


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

mkh said:


> As The HACK said, the problems you've heard are from the 3.0 engines, not just the ZHP. So unless you are not getting a 330i, you can't avoid them. Hopefully, by the time you take delivery, everything has been solved.


Is this really true? My non-ZHP is fine (5/03 build) and I've hadn't seen any complaints about non-ZHP's until this thread.

In theory I wouldn't mind some of the ZHP upgrades, but overall it doesn't seem worth the $$$. The bang for the buck seems pretty low.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

ff said:


> My advice, if you're set on the ZHP, I would at least wait until BMW comes out with a fix for the stall problem (assuming they do), and the fix is good. If they don't, then buy the SP, and upgrade the sway bars.
> 
> That's what I said about the 330i SP. With the ZHP, all you hear is the exhaust, which completely drowns out the engine note until about 4000 RPM.


15000 miles not one stall.
I love the engine growl now - and hate how quiet normal 3 series cars are in comparison.

But then again, I don't think the inline 6 in my car is all that. No torque.


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## BloodRedHog (Mar 9, 2004)

ff said:


> Having owned a 330i SP and now a 330i ZHP, I can say in all honesty that the ZHP package is mostly an appearance package. The difference in handling and 'feel' between the two cars is almost un-noticeable, and I actually like the gearing in the std. 330i better.


ff, is this is true, I will go with the ZSP -- no difference in "body roll" or lean in the corners?


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

BloodRedHog said:


> ff, is this is true, I will go with the ZSP -- no difference in "body roll" or lean in the corners?


I'd go with the ZHP . . . it felt better then my 03 330i sports package ... if you look under my name and do a search you should find my review of the ZHP.

The package is well worth the money and after owning 2 E46's and driving over 20 different ones, the ZHP I drove was the best of them all !!!

As far as problems, don't stress on it, these cars , whether it's a ZHP or a 325i have little annoying things which some people call problems


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## killajoe (Apr 22, 2004)

ff said:


> That's what I said about the 330i SP. With the ZHP, all you hear is the exhaust, which completely drowns out the engine note until about 4000 RPM.


Well, that's one hell of an exhaust note then. It was over a month before I ever turned on the radio... Hell, my engine sounds better than most of the crap on the radio today anyway...

later,

killajoe


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

killajoe said:


> Well, that's one hell of an exhaust note then. It was over a month before I ever turned on the radio... Hell, my engine sounds better than most of the crap on the radio today anyway...
> 
> later,
> 
> killajoe


It has a radio? J/K...

No, seriously, I believe the ZHP exhaust does kind of drone, but to be fair, you get used to it. Not in a "put up with it" kind of way, but in a acclimatization kind of way. I came from a very nice '99 MBZ C class; sometimes all you could hear with the radio off was the (slight) noise from the tires on the road. It was very quiet.

So, to go then to a ZHP, well, yes, its LOUD at first, then it turns into Loud and finally turns into just loud. Now I kind of, well, like it. Its like the car is purring or something. Wierd, huh?

On other aspects:

I don't have the Alcantara so can't comment on the cloth. My Xenons are great, but these are not unique to the ZHP obviously.

M135s? I like them. I've not seen any evidence they make the car "slow" vs. say the M68s. I guess you either do or don't like the look; for me the M68s look, well, kind of old fashioned now? :dunno: So far so good on the wheel dings's, although I give a wary eye to kerbs. I use the BMW recommended tire pressures, plus 2PSI. I got a 49 cent foam brush from WalMart and use it to clean the wheels. Sure, they take a little longer than, say, cleaning the Odyssey wheels but its acceptable.

I like the body kit, although I suspect its for looks alone, as I am extremely unlikely to need that extra +40# of downforce unless I happened to be, say, powering through Eau Rouge at Spa. But I confess, I like it. Every time I walk out to the car after work I get a little frisson of excitement. And the shadowline trim is pretty cool.

Engine is strong and willing enough for me, I can't really tell a big difference between the SP I drove and the ZHP.

Lest you think I am completely venal and only care about looks alone, I do drive enthusiastically from time to time, where conditions allow, and am extremely impressed by 1) the poise of the car in a bend and 2) the brakes, which frankly are phenomenal.

Overall? Yes, a :thumbup: . Faster than a Boxster, plus four doors and a trunk ( :sabrina: ) as well.

PS - yo, rumratt, that fish has gotten hit by the ugly stick a few too many times, man :rofl:


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

BloodRedHog said:


> ff, is this is true, I will go with the ZSP -- no difference in "body roll" or lean in the corners?


Very little difference. After driving a ZSP for ~30K miles, and then purchasing a ZHP, I found that the ZHP is ever-so-slightly flatter in the corners, but from what I've heard you can upgrade the sways (UUC, for instance) and get the same result from the ZSP. $4K is a lot of money to spend for heavier wheels and a fuzzy steering wheel.

I will say that I love the cloth seats in mine, though. They are first rate. If only you could get them in the std. 330i.

Drive both cars, and decide for yourself. I'm positive that you will notice very little difference between suspensions. Just being realistic.

Also check out resale value. I did a check on the value of mine for poops and giggles. 2003 w/ 20K miles, only worth $28K on trade-in... Paid $41K for it.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

killajoe said:


> Well, that's one hell of an exhaust note then. It was over a month before I ever turned on the radio... Hell, my engine sounds better than most of the crap on the radio today anyway...
> 
> later,
> 
> killajoe


The non-ZHP car (whose engine isn't drowned out by the exhaust) sounds significantly better. All you get is the beautiful wail of the Inline 6 from 1000 RPM all the way up to redline.

Now all I get is a boomy-ricey exhaust note.


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## GregD (Feb 5, 2003)

I know you're getting different opinions on this, but I think the suspension difference with the ZHP is very significant.

While I find a regular 330i to be a very willing partner when pushing it through the twisties, the ZHP equipped car is positively invigorating. It's like it's egging me on --- faster, faster, faster. I've never gotten this feeling in a SP 330i. But maybe this isn't a good thing.  

Plus there's all of the other little differences: higher RPM limit, shorter shift, shorter differential gearing, more power, and higher speed limiter. And some big differences: cloth seats, alcantara steering wheel, pretty 18" wheels, nice aerodynamic package, and shadowline trim.

In one year and 11K miles of use, I've had one of the mysterious stall incidents that others have reported. Started right back up, and haven't had the problem since. :dunno: 

Overall, it's a no brainer for me, ZHP all the way, but ultimately you have to do what's going to make you happy. I think the difference, if there is any in reliability, is minimal, and not a reason to get the car with or without ZHP. Go with your instincts on this one. :thumbup:


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

ff said:


> and I actually like the gearing in the std. 330i better.


What exactly do you like about the std. gearing better? What didn't you like about the ZHP gearing? Could you be specific? Thanks.


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## geewee (May 1, 2004)

*~now it's time to break for the silly questions~*

dumbass question of the day: Just exactly what is a ZHP?


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## Epi330 (Feb 28, 2004)

geewee said:


> dumbass question of the day: Just exactly what is a ZHP?


Performance Package


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## BloodRedHog (Mar 9, 2004)

geewee said:


> dumbass question of the day: Just exactly what is a ZHP?


ZHP = Performance Package option on 03 and 04 330's. For retail $3900 you get extra bits here and there (18" inch wheels, stiffer suspension, 10 extra hp, alcantara wheel and seats, anthracite headliner, differennt aero kit front, rear, and I believe side, louder exhaust, shorter shift, and shorter diff...I may have forgotten something.

This issue of the worth of the ZHP has been hotly debated on this forum. :tsk: :tsk:


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

BloodRedHog said:


> ZHP = Performance Package option on 03 and 04 330's. For retail $3900 you get extra bits here and there (18" inch wheels, stiffer suspension, 10 extra hp, alcantara wheel and seats, anthracite headliner, differennt aero kit front, rear, and I believe side, louder exhaust, shorter shift, and shorter diff...I may have forgotten something.


...M steering wheel, aluminum cube trim, high-gloss shadowline trim, black headlight surrounds (previous MY 330s had titanium), lip spoiler, wider exhaust tips, wider tires, negative camber, red gauge needles...

Lots of little things, but it all adds up to sweet refinement of an already great car.


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## eyeguy (Apr 29, 2004)

*Thanks everyone-*

I really appreciate the input - I never expected so many responses, and so quickly. I think I've made my decision. In response to the New Orleans native, unfortunately I cannot avoid Tchoupitoulas St since it's the street I live on...but I think I can work around it. Thanks again everybody. Now to choose a color...


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## BloodRedHog (Mar 9, 2004)

eyeguy said:


> Now to choose a color...


Imola Red (although I'm too afraid to get it - I feel it makes you cop bait)


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## Shamrock (Sep 4, 2003)

My 2 cents:

The ZHP is a factory-modded 330 SP which is nice because it's in essence a modded car with full warranty. Now, could you get a stripper 330i, and get more performance with aftermarket mods for the price of the ZHP package? Probably yes. But some would rather pay for a tweaked 330i SP without the warranty worry, which is cool.

I wouldn't get too hung up on ZHP reliability vs a 330 SP. (I have a 2004 330i SP and have the idle problem, so no, it's not ZHP specific.) The car really isn't that much different.

I my case, I set a budget and a lightly optioned 330i SP fit the bill. I test drove a ZHP and, for me, the performance benefit didn't match the package cost. I didn't test an M3 because I probably would have broke into my 401K and bought one. (While I was test driving the ZHP, I asked the salesguy how it would stack up against an M3. He was honest and said, "An M3 would kick the crap out of this. It's a totally different car."


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

One moment here. We were all ready to order a new 330ci w/Sport, Leather, Sunroof, Xenons etc when I first heard about the ZHP. Pricewise, the ZHP was $2500 CHEAPER MSRP than the above save leather (Which I didn't really want anyway). So we have one on order, I won't see the same 3 series as mine every few minutes on the way to work and c'mon now guys...it has to be just a little faster and handle just a little better...doesn't it? That's what it's all about, just a little faster and better. I got this same argument 40 years ago when we bought a tii instead of a straight 2002. Which one would you like to be driving today?


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

I'm holding out for a 130Ci ZHP. :thumbup: 

I could be an old man by the time it gets here though.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

rumratt said:


> Is this really true? My non-ZHP is fine (5/03 build) and I've hadn't seen any complaints about non-ZHP's until this thread.
> 
> In theory I wouldn't mind some of the ZHP upgrades, but overall it doesn't seem worth the $$$. The bang for the buck seems pretty low.


I have a 2004 330i SP and I have the stall problem. It is all 3.0 liter engines, not just those offered with the ZHP package.


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