# 2005 BMW 545i, Dealer Costs is this real?



## kryptokat (Jul 27, 2004)

Hi everyone,

I have been reading this forum regularly for the last month, here is an email I got from a dealer when I asked him a quote.

I gave you my best price - If you have a better one than go get it. I offered a fair, reasonable price for a $62,000 car. I will make $1,000 gross profit on this car at the price I quoted. From this I must deduct a $350 Advertising Fee for BMW, $125.00 for pre-delivery (the actual amount is $250.00 -BMW reimburses 50%) $110.00 for mats, and $125.00 to detail and gas the car. Then there is salesman commission (25% of the net profit). As you can see I am not getting rich on this "deal". 

Also I think his response "If you have a better one than go get it" was very rude. Any thoughts on this folks?


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

kryptokat said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading this forum regularly for the last month, here is an email I got from a dealer when I asked him a quote.
> 
> ...


When he offered $1000 over, were you looking to do better? I think at that point many people would have had a similar reaction, but they could have said it in a friendlier and less hostile manner.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

kryptokat said:


> Also I think his response "If you have a better one than go get it" was very rude. Any thoughts on this folks?


I think he was being straight up and direct with you. I had a similar conversation with a dealer a few hours away when I was checking prices on my 04 X5. I explained the options, that it was CPO and told him I'd actually driven it. He said, "Go get it. You're getting that car for $2k less than I PAID for the one on my lot."

I took his advice.


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## eddy_merckxdomo (Aug 11, 2004)

I think the problem issue is that you're not dealing with a very smart or sophisticated salesman. Ie, one who realizes that what often sounds direct and honest in person can often times come across as rude and confrontational in an email.

also, I would avoid taking anything a car salesman says to me personally - whether it's good or bad. You'll lose your objectivity and make a bad deal. Whether or not he "gets rich on a deal" is his problem not yours, so don't get sucked into that one.

Anyway, just figure out what the cars worth to you and shop around for that price. If you don't get it, move on. ... plenty of great cars out there and they're making more every day, so ...

Eric

PS: I believe there's an 05 wholesale pricing list for the 5 series in the "askadealer" forum.



kryptokat said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading this forum regularly for the last month, here is an email I got from a dealer when I asked him a quote.
> 
> ...


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## markseven (Apr 30, 2004)

kryptokat said:


> I gave you my best price - If you have a better one than go get it. I offered a fair, reasonable price for a $62,000 car. I will make $1,000 gross profit on this car at the price I quoted. From this I must deduct a $350 Advertising Fee for BMW, $125.00 for pre-delivery (the actual amount is $250.00 -BMW reimburses 50%) $110.00 for mats, and $125.00 to detail and gas the car. Then there is salesman commission (25% of the net profit). As you can see I am not getting rich on this "deal". QUOTE]
> 
> :bs:
> 
> ...


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## kd2789mo (Jul 8, 2004)

eddy_merckxdomo said:


> PS: I believe there's an 05 wholesale pricing list for the 5 series in the "askadealer" forum.


which does not include the various incentives provided from manufacturer to dealer, or 'perks' for paper (extra money dealers make for using a pre-arranged financial institution for their financing). In all fairness, oftentimes, the salesperson is usually not aware of what the final net on most deals is.
Yep, I'd have a job which based my pay on something I didn't know!


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## markseven (Apr 30, 2004)

kd2789mo said:


> Yep, I'd have a job which based my pay on something I didn't know!


Half these sales guys don't know squat about _the cars_ they're selling. ..."dual what?"

-Mark


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## RCK (Jan 29, 2003)

Sounds like an ass hat. But sometimes dealing with an ass hat can save you some serious money. Only time you will deal with this guy is time of purchase. So suck it up and get yourself a great deal ( if thats what it really is ) :bigpimp:


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## kd2789mo (Jul 8, 2004)

markseven said:


> Half these sales guys don't know squat about _the cars_ they're selling. ..."dual what?"
> 
> -Mark


When I took delivery of my 545, the salesperson doing the delivery, looked at the Cruise Control Stalk, and said, "What's this?" (referring to the 'extra' toggle on the stalk) I said, "it has Adaptive Cruise." He said, "oh, I've never seen ona them, lemmie know how it works."

sigh :dunno:


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## kryptokat (Jul 27, 2004)

What do you think of the costs mentioned? Is it true? $250 to inspect a NEW vehicle, for what? $350 to advertise the Vehicle? When was the last time you saw a BMW ad?

Any thougts?


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## kd2789mo (Jul 8, 2004)

kryptokat said:


> What do you think of the costs mentioned? Is it true? $250 to inspect a NEW vehicle, for what? $350 to advertise the Vehicle? When was the last time you saw a BMW ad?
> 
> Any thougts?


BMW dealers here charge a $395 'new car prep fee' For that, one of their commissioned technicians does a 'software check' (which takes about an hour to complete) on the vehicles' functions, and a 'porter' washes and waxes (usually just washes" the vehicle.
BMWNA does charge and list the $695 transport fee on the vehicles sticker, which is the fee BMW pays to have the vehicle transported to the dealership by an independent vehicle transport company. (All BMW vehicles are transported under-cover) It would be difficult to conceive the end-fee charged the consumer is the actual net fee paid by BMW to transport the vehicle.
BMW provides its' dealers what is commonly called a co-op (it's an acronym for corporative) advertising budget. In which, if the dealership 'uses' certain BMW required logo's or statements, the advertisement run by the dealership qualifies for a portion of co-op which BMW then pays the dealership.
The _"$350 to advertise the vehicle,"_ is simply another way for a dealership to recover more of its advertising dollars budget spent, and 'pass the savings' along to you, the consumer. i.e. higher gross/net profit on the deal for the dealer.
Anyone who 'thinks' there isn't 10-20% to "play" with between the dealer's cost and the listed MSRP is sadly mistaken.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

*In defense of car salesmen everywhere...*



kryptokat said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I have been reading this forum regularly for the last month, here is an email I got from a dealer when I asked him a quote.
> 
> ...


In his defense...

Internet Sales Managers at larger BMW stores will get hundreds of leads a month, and do need to work through them quickly if they expect to make a living. He wasn't the smoothest in communicating that this was his best price, but I've said basically the same thing many, many times (with different verbiage).

He is completely opening his cost structure to you, and being open about what goes into the deal. Whether you believe him or not is up to you. Once again, his comment about "not getting rich" isn't the smoothest in the world, but again, I've said basically the same thing many, many times (with different verbiage).

Properly set-up, Internet Sales Departments should make it easy for consumers to make car deals without ever stepping foot in the store (until they sign). It sounds like this guy has helped you to some extent, and while he ain't the most eloquent, he is direct and upfront (perhaps too much).

And I don't know the details of the car you're talking about, or the current state of the market in your area, but if it is $1000 over invoice, it really is a very good deal, and you'd be foolish not to jump on it.


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## markseven (Apr 30, 2004)

philippek said:


> In his defense...
> 
> Internet Sales Managers at larger BMW stores will get hundreds of leads a month, and do need to work through them quickly if they expect to make a living. He wasn't the smoothest in communicating that this was his best price, but I've said basically the same thing many, many times (with different verbiage).
> 
> ...


philippek.

What you wrote makes sense.

Seeing as how Bimmers are no longer 'selling themselves', homeboy should sharpen his communication skills if he wants to keep food on the table. Just my $.02.

-Mark


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## kd2789mo (Jul 8, 2004)

markseven said:


> And I don't know the details of the car you're talking about, or the current state of the market in your area, but if it is $1000 over invoice, it really is a very good deal, and you'd be foolish not to jump on it.


Agreed, $1000 over invoice is a decent deal.
$2000 _under_ would be _"a very good deal."_ On a $60k MSRP vehicle, most dealers (properly managed) would net $2000-2500 selling the vehicle at $2000 under manufacture invoice. Anyone ever involved in a volume-type, high-ticket business, will agree, a 10%+ net to total sales is an exceptional target.
As for _"homeboy,"_ agreed, it's the wrong person, doing the right job.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

kd2789mo said:


> Agreed, $1000 over invoice is a decent deal.
> $2000 _under_ would be _"a very good deal."_ On a $60k MSRP vehicle, most dealers (properly managed) would net $2000-2500 selling the vehicle at $2000 under manufacture invoice.


 :rofl: :yikes:

Please tell me what dealership you ran, and how you were able to get all that money from BMWNA. Your math proves quite phenomenal. If you can work magic like that, I'm sure you'd be in high demand at any BMW dealer out there.


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## kd2789mo (Jul 8, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> :rofl: :yikes:
> 
> Please tell me what dealership you ran, and how you were able to get all that money from BMWNA. Your math proves quite phenomenal. If you can work magic like that, I'm sure you'd be in high demand at any BMW dealer out there.


Indeed, I am. If you're of interest, I am not interested in relocating to _"here, there, everywhere"_
I have spent 35+ years in this industry, worked in virtually all facets, and most major US markets. There's much to this industry few are aware of.
Best wishes


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## kryptokat (Jul 27, 2004)

*$1000 over invoice for 545i*

Of the 35 dealers I have contacted 5 wanted $2500 over invoice. Only 2 dealers were willing to give me a price of $2000 over invoice. Only one dealer gave me $1000 over invoice. (No it was not the rude guy in the email). This for a 2005 MY. The others decided not to respond.

By the way this guy in the email gave me his quote on the phone. After I said thank you, he asked me what I thought of the quote. I said I do have a better deal. His response was "WELL THEN GO GET IT PAL" CLICK.

I have never asked any dealer to match or beat another dealers price. I wanted to know what they wanted from me. I emailed them the Cars invoice price and asked them how much they wanted. This salesman gave me a price $ 2000 over invoice.

I have to drive 300 miles to get it. But Hey for a $1000 dollars it's worth it. If Pittsburgh is a drivable distance for any of you guys, I will be happy to recommend my dealer. He gave me the price upfront didn't add any other extras except for tax and tags.


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## kd2789mo (Jul 8, 2004)

kryptokat said:


> Of the 35 dealers I have contacted 5 wanted $2500 over invoice. Only 2 dealers were willing to give me a price of $2000 over invoice. Only one dealer gave me $1000 over invoice. (No it was not the rude guy in the email). This for a 2005 MY. The others decided not to respond.
> 
> By the way this guy in the email gave me his quote on the phone. After I said thank you, he asked me what I thought of the quote. I said I do have a better deal. His response was "WELL THEN GO GET IT PAL" CLICK.
> 
> ...


For a 2005, it makes sense. Supply and Demand. The other 34 already know they're going to get that, and more, over the course of the next 90 days.
The dealer in Pittsburgh is either a well-established dealer with good long-range planning, or one with a serious cash-flow issue.
Either way, you come out ahead, and should have the idrive down-pat by the time you get back home! :thumbup:
Who knows, you may even by able to operate the cruise control without flashing your high-beams! :rofl:


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## DotBalm (Jul 27, 2004)

$1K over invoice for MY '05 545, sounds like a good deal, as in fair for all parties. 

If I didn't already have one, I'd look for this deal, I would feel good about it, to the extent one can feel good about a great sucking sound from one's checking account. 

I paid a little less for my MY '04, but I'd expect that for taking the risk with a first year model. All things considered I'd prefer your deal on a MY '05 given some of the expected improvements like bluetooth integration, as long as you are getting what you want in terms of exterior, interior, options. If you are making serious compromises and taking a dog off the lot in terms of color/interior configuration, etc, then no, I would not take the deal, it's only good if you like what you're getting.

Driving 300 miles to get it has a silver lining, you'd be 25% of the way toward your break-in mileage by the time you brought your baby home. Just be ready to walk away from the deal if they try to screw you, knowing you've invested so much in traveling there.


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## kryptokat (Jul 27, 2004)

DotBalm said:


> $1K over invoice for MY '05 545, sounds like a good deal, as in fair for all parties.
> 
> If you are making serious compromises and taking a dog off the lot in terms of color/interior configuration, etc, then no, I would not take the deal, it's only good if you like what you're getting.
> 
> Just be ready to walk away from the deal if they try to screw you, knowing you've invested so much in traveling there.


I had it custom ordered with my specs. I have yet to get a production number. The dealer gave me all costs upfront including tags, fees and tax.


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