# Chinese Sales - An Outrage!!!



## bimmer335is (Nov 27, 2010)

As I grew up in China, I think I can share a few reasons. 
1. VW/Audi entered China wayyyyyy early than any auto manufactures. It entered China with Lada (a brand of Russian auto manufacture) in between 1980-1990. Anybody knows this car? ::dunno:
2. Since they developed sales market early than the competitors, the VW began to build their cars in China due to cheap costs. Of course, the condition or agreement was to build VW cars as joint venture with the government to help boost China's economy. 
3. Almost 90% or more Audis sold in China were built in China. Therefore, It was a lot cheaper comparing to Germany breeds.
4. I remembered that Audi was only official approved vehicle to use for government officials at one time. (It may be changed now). If government officials rode a luxury vehicle beyond Audi, he or she would get audit due to potential corruptions.
5. I don't doubt OP's source, but it is a strange low number for bmw 3ers. It may be just imported from Germany. BMW does have a manufacture in Northeast of China. It's indeed a joint venture too. A entry level 3er made in China cost ~40k USD, A Germany made 3er in China costs ~80k USD. Which car will you buy? 
The last but not the least, if you ask a Chinese citizen (not rich people, not government officials), which car you would like to own (Audi vs. BMW) if he/she can afford one? I will bet 99% he or she chooses BMW. lol
The last 1% chance is because he/she likes Audi LEDs. 
I admit I like Audis LED as much as BMW's angel eyes. But my 2 cents, a LED light can not compare with driving machine. I will choose BMW at any time if I can only afford to own 1 car at a time. That's why I drove 3s not As.


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## bimmer335is (Nov 27, 2010)

bayoucity said:


> For those that don't know much about Chinese political hierarchy, Audi is the most commonly used vehicle by the nigh ranking government officers. One can usually gauge the importance of government meetings by counting how many black A6s parked outside the building.
> 
> In all fairness, comparing Audi success in China is like counting black unmarked interceptor in USA.


+10000. Bayoucity definitely likes to watch CNN news. Absolutely correct!


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

BMWFTW91 said:


> Bmw's are also built in China now, only for the Chinese market though.


Same can be said about GM there AKA GM/SAIC which is hugely profitable. China is the 3rd largest market for BMW behind Deutsche & USA. It is projected to over take US market within 2-3 years. BMW's profit will suffer had it not been endless demand from Chinese considering lackluster sales in EU & NA. In fact, they have to run over time shift over the holidays in Germany just to meet Chinese' demand for 7 series.


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## BMWFTW91 (Dec 23, 2009)

bayoucity said:


> Same can be said about GM there AKA GM/SAIC which is hugely profitable. China is the 3rd largest market for BMW behind Deutsche & USA. It is projected to over take US market within 2-3 years. BMW's profit will suffer had it not been endless demand from Chinese considering lackluster sales in EU & NA. In fact, they have to run over time shift over the holidays in Germany just to meet Chinese' demand for 7 series.


Where are you getting this information from? I am not saying that you are wrong, but I thought that China was the second largest economy; while Germany had 3rd. Also 2-3 years seems way too early, I read somewhere and may have saw it on a news report that analysts were predicting that China would surpass The United States Economy in about 10-15 years.

Anyways, whether China will surpass the United States in 2 years or 15; everyone knows it is going to be HUGE. THe world will not look at the United States the same as before ( as the world dominator) and everything will continue to shift towards China, but at a much faster and stronger rate.

I watched this documentary About China and even though things seem to be going perfect for them, this dramatic economic increase over the last 20 years has had some strong negative influences on the country. One of the main negative influences are things like HEAVY pollution, which is destroying so many parts of the country.

I think that at the end of the day, only time will tell the truth. The United States has seen a dramatic impact from this Chinese economic uprising and I do not see it ever declining. China will continue to grow at even faster rates that before you and I know it will be driving Chinese vehicles.


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## bimmer335is (Nov 27, 2010)

BMWFTW91 said:


> Also 2-3 years seems way too early, I read somewhere and may have saw it on a news report that analysts were predicting that China would surpass The United States Economy in about 10-15 years.
> 
> Anyways, whether China will surpass the United States in 2 years or 15; everyone knows it is going to be HUGE. THe world will not look at the United States the same as before ( as the world dominator) and everything will continue to shift towards China, but at a much faster and stronger rate.
> .


I don't think china will surpass US in next 15 yrs. No doubt, China's overall economy is strong, but average person's income is still way too low. Minimum wage in US is 7.25/hr, I think in china it is 1 buck/hr or less. My opinion is US will stay ahead of the world as long as the government does not act stupid and throw all the money to the wars. i am not a politic guy, and I know i have no influence. But I don't understand why government don't use the money for its own people. Fix the damn pot holes and make US road as nice as autobahn. :dunno:


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

BMWFTW91 said:


> Where are you getting this information from? I am not saying that you are wrong, but I thought that China was the second largest economy; while Germany had 3rd. Also 2-3 years seems way too early, I read somewhere and may have saw it on a news report that analysts were predicting that China would surpass The United States Economy in about 10-15 years...


I cannot predict when Chinese economy in term of GDP will surpass USA. However, I can tell you they have officially overtaken us as the #1 market for new vehicle sales in 2009. I believe BMW is projected to sell more vehicles in China than USA within next 15-24 moths.

The most recent data for Chinese car sales number is 4.98 million units in 1Q 2011(March 31st, 2011) > http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.a5883c85dd97776628fc74914e0c259d.281

The EU only manage to achieve 4,674,457 units through April 30th, 2011 (that's right, 1 month ahead of Chinese' datas). > http://www.acea.be/index.php/news/n...cars_registrations_down_27_over_january_april

USA has only 4,218,067 units through April 30th, 2011. (see attachment)

I've BMW's sales number laying somewhere in the office which I will post later.

p/s Please bear in mind, China's number is 1 month behind EU & USA


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

bimmer335is said:


> As I grew up in China, I think I can share a few reasons.
> 1. VW/Audi entered China wayyyyyy early than any auto manufactures. It entered China with Lada (a brand of Russian auto manufacture) in between 1980-1990. Anybody knows this car? ::dunno:


I know!!! When I levied there and didn't see any other car - it was most beautiful car in the world to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lada

With average salary 120 rubels/mo - new Lada cost 7,000 rubels (1 yr warrany and then good luck find any parts). 27" color TV cost 720 rubels.


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## BMWFTW91 (Dec 23, 2009)

bayoucity said:


> I cannot predict when Chinese economy in term of GDP will surpass USA. However, I can tell you they have officially overtaken us as the #1 market for new vehicle sales in 2009. I believe BMW is projected to sell more vehicles in China than USA within next 15-24 moths.
> 
> The most recent data for Chinese car sales number is 4.98 million units in 1Q 2011(March 31st, 2011) > http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.a5883c85dd97776628fc74914e0c259d.281
> 
> ...


Very interesting facts. THanks a lot man! 

There is also one factor you need to look at in all this and that is _population. 
_

Keep in mind that China has a much larger population than The United States and the European Union combined. So I do would not be surprised if they began to sell more Bmws there. I think that the main reason why we are seeing such a dramatic increase in the size of every Bmw model is because of China. Bmw is focusing a lot of time on the Chinese market now. They know the Chinese love to be driven in their cars and increasing legroom in the rear seats of their vehicles, will mean an increase of Bmw sales in China.


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## e46NJ (Jun 2, 2007)

BMWFTW91 said:


> Where are you getting this information from? I am not saying that you are wrong, but I thought that China was the second largest economy; while Germany had 3rd. Also 2-3 years seems way too early, I read somewhere and may have saw it on a news report that analysts were predicting that China would surpass The United States Economy in about 10-15 years.


I think he was talking about the market for BMW, not the overall size of economies.

As for China surpassing the US in the 15 years or so, I heard that as well from the economists. I also heard that India will surpass the US in the next 50 years. It's anyone's prediction but one interesting point for China is that it has an aging population issue. Us and Japan has similar issues so I don't know how that impacts each from a relative perspective and how much each country spends on social programs for the elderly.


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

BMWFTW91 said:


> ...There is also one factor you need to look at in all this and that is _population...._


_

Bingo ! You just nailed the source.

China's population pyramid is bottom heavy with young folks (mostly 30 y.o. or less) whereas US has an inverted top heavy population pyramid lead by babyboomers.

Below is the math:
China: 1.3 billion populations;
U.S.: 300 million (depends on whether undocumented aliens are counted).

Vehicle ownership:
the registered vehicles per 1000 people are only 20.5 units in China;
the registered vehicles per 1000 people are approximately 800 units in USA.

Is there a reason why BMW ditched NY auto show instead they choose to debut M5 & 6 series coupe during the same week at Shanghai Motor Show? Is there a reason VW choose Shanghai to launch their new bugs? No offense, it is all about business._


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## beden1 (Dec 22, 2007)

The Chinese will burn out like the Japanese did because they are too tightly wound and don't know how to release their pent up frustrations. The country also has a weak infrastructure that is too centrally controlled. IMO, their economy will crash and burn within 5 years.

Before that however, they have been doing a great job of ruining the other world economies, by forcing manufacturers to produce products in China if they want to sell their products in China...and, so screw the rest of the world's work forces!


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## beden1 (Dec 22, 2007)

The one thing our prominent universities should start doing now, is to stop enrolling and educating the Chinese students, because all they do is take their knowledge back to China, for the benefit of China.


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## sf_loft (Jul 29, 2007)

bimmer335is said:


> The last but not the least, if you ask a Chinese citizen (not rich people, not government officials), which car you would like to own (Audi vs. BMW) if he/she can afford one? I will bet 99% he or she chooses BMW. lol
> The last 1% chance is because he/she likes Audi LEDs.


I'll take that bet... The unfortunate usually looks up to those who are fortunate and try very hard to feel accepted into their status circle. Sociology 101, why would they say BMW if the rich and important are driving Audi's. :dunno:

For all I care, the less fortunate can lease BMW's to make themselves feel more important.  I kidd... just joking.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

beden1 said:


> The one thing our prominent universities should start doing now, is to stop enrolling and educating the Chinese students, because all they do is take their knowledge back to China, for the benefit of China.


Who do you suggest they enroll to fill the engineering, math, physics, chemical and such vacancies? From the American Idol crowd?


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

(-_-)/ \(-_-)


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## beden1 (Dec 22, 2007)

dtc100 said:


> Who do you suggest they enroll to fill the engineering, math, physics, chemical and such vacancies? From the American Idol crowd?


There are plenty of home grown intelligent students to select from within the US. These Ivy League schools have gotten too hung up on bragging about how many countries their students represent. I was at one this past weekend that claimed to have students from 65 countries, but, most of them looked like they were from China to me!

But, what good do these students do for us, when they return to their own countries like China and utilize what they learned here, there?


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## sf_loft (Jul 29, 2007)

beden1 said:


> The one thing our prominent universities should start doing now, is to stop enrolling and educating the Chinese students, because all they do is take their knowledge back to China, for the benefit of China.


But yeah, where do you stop? A lot of countries send their children to study abroad so that they can be successful back home. The problem is the government and how they restrict foreign businesses from operating without local partnerships or strict regulations. They also do not honor patent or copyright laws and steal American innovations to only provide it to its own people behind closed doors. When you have 1.3 billion people, it's tempting to replicate what others do and sell it to your own people which almost equals the rest of the world.


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## sf_loft (Jul 29, 2007)

beden1 said:


> There are plenty of home grown intelligent students to select from within the US. These Ivy League schools have gotten too hung up on bragging about how many countries their students represent. I was at one this past weekend that claimed to have students from 65 countries, but, most of them looked like they were from China to me!
> 
> But, what good do these students do for us, when they return to their own countries like China and utilize what they learned here, there?


I'm sorry but your statement is pretty ignorant. Home grown intelligent students can't be of Chinese origin? Most Chinese looking students will take their knowledge back to China?

Have you ever walked through the Berkeley campus or MIT's? I agree with you that it may seem like over 50% are of Asian decent, but I can tell you that many are 2nd and 3rd generation Americans. Asians are still a minority group within our university system and country, yet we do not qualify for quota requirements, financial aid or scholarships that Native Americans, Hispanics and African Americans are eligible for. They have to get in on their own merit and pay higher tuition. Foreign students will almost always pay full tuition due to their ineligibility for aid.

I just don't see how denying foreign students will help and as I said earlier, the problem is with the Chinese government. People are simply looking for a better life and a good education. How one choses to use that knowledge is up to them.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

GiaGiaJa said:


> (-_-)/ \(-_-)


Those I like although they don't look like they are from China


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

dtc100 said:


> Those I like although they don't look like they are from China


She is Thai.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

bayoucity said:


> She is Thai.


Do they look like they are Thai? I don't know, maybe we can ask beden1, he seems very good at going by what look like to him


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

dtc100 said:


> Do they look like they are Thai? I don't know, maybe we can ask beden1, he seems very good at going by what look like to him


Ha ! She is from one of the 65 countries.


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## BMWFTW91 (Dec 23, 2009)

dtc100 said:


> Do they look like they are Thai? I don't know, maybe we can ask beden1, he seems very good at going by what look like to him


I see an Asian looking person and immediately assume that they are " Chinese " . :thumbup:


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## BMWFTW91 (Dec 23, 2009)

bayoucity said:


> Bingo ! You just nailed the source.
> 
> China's population pyramid is bottom heavy with young folks (mostly 30 y.o. or less) whereas US has an inverted top heavy population pyramid lead by babyboomers.
> 
> ...


Yes! It seems that Bmw is primarily focusing on The Chinese market now.

Ask why Bmw's are getting much larger?

_China_ may be your answer.

Bmw does not give a flying fock about the true enthusiasts who want Bmws to look like they did 10 years ago and remain the same size as 10 years ago.

The current E9x's are almost as large as a E39 5 Series and the next generation 3 series ( F30) is going to continue to grow in size. Those days of Bmw primarily focusing on making most of their cars " performance orientated " are long gone! Their primary focus now is comfort and luxury and saying " screw you " to their performance orientated days. There was a time when the 5 series could be called a " sport sedan ", but now I can barely say it with a straight face.

How did I go from China to this I DON'T KNOW !?! :rofl: I can keep going though . . .


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

BMWFTW91 said:


> I see an Asian looking person and immediately assume that they are " Chinese " . :thumbup:


Well then I think you owe Gia an apology


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## BMWFTW91 (Dec 23, 2009)

dtc100 said:


> Well then I think you owe Gia an apology


I do not apologize to anyone as I am never wrong.


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## CALWATERBOY (Aug 26, 2009)

bimmer335is said:


> VW/Audi entered China wayyyyyy early than any auto manufactures. It entered China with Lada (a brand of Russian auto manufacture) in between 1980-1990. Anybody knows this car?


A car worthy of controversy, in fact eclipsed in quality (there) only by another communist consumer item, the Yugo.

It is representative of the worker's paradise. Poor sods. No wonder they put up a wall.


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## beden1 (Dec 22, 2007)

sf_loft said:


> I'm sorry but your statement is pretty ignorant. Home grown intelligent students can't be of Chinese origin? Most Chinese looking students will take their knowledge back to China?
> 
> Have you ever walked through the Berkeley campus or MIT's? I agree with you that it may seem like over 50% are of Asian decent, but I can tell you that many are 2nd and 3rd generation Americans. Asians are still a minority group within our university system and country, yet we do not qualify for quota requirements, financial aid or scholarships that Native Americans, Hispanics and African Americans are eligible for. They have to get in on their own merit and pay higher tuition. Foreign students will almost always pay full tuition due to their ineligibility for aid.
> 
> I just don't see how denying foreign students will help and as I said earlier, the problem is with the Chinese government. *People are simply looking for a better life and a good education. How one choses to use that knowledge is up to them*.


Correct, and I think we should start thinking about taking care of our own citizens here in the US, whether they are from Asian decent, or whatever!


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

beden1 said:


> Correct, and I think we should start thinking about taking care of our own citizens here in the US, whether they are from Asian decent, or whatever!


With budget constraints amount most universities, be prepared to see more foreign students because that is one of the few remaining revenue sources for them.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

BMWFTW91 said:


> I do not apologize to anyone as I am never wrong.


Sometimes I apologize even when I am correct, it all depends


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

This is right

But
v
v
This...... is wrong


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

This just in - more Ford Fusions were sold in the US than BMW 3 series. I guess Ford has finally surpassed BMW in handling.

/sarcasm.

I don't care if BMW sells more than Audi or whomever. I just want the car that is in my garage to be the best it can be for a reasonable price.


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