# BMW Coolant Alternative



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Knowing BMW's marketing ties with Castrol I checked what kind of anti-freeze Castrol sells and of course there is none in the US but Europe gets Antifreeze NF that meets both BMW N 600 69.0 and MB 325.0, it's ethylene glycol based and it's green. Funny thing is that the bottle is exactly the same as Pentosin.

I think you can use any coolant that is nitrite, amine and phosphate free and stay away from extended drain stuff but because the cost is reasonable I would stick with BMW OEM one.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

To add another dimension to this-- Now that BMW has switched to "lifetime coolant"-- anyone know what coolant that is? My guess is that its a red-colored "G12" coolant as per the Audi/VW sites. Or did they simply decide that the same G48 coolant was "okay" for the life of the car? I have a pre-lifetime coolant 325i, so this is just an academic question for me.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

This is getting curioser and curioser, as they say.

I have a list of recommended brand names (all euro stuff of course) out of a year-old TIS.

Aral Antifreeze Extra
BP Anti-Frost X 2270-A
BP Napgel C 2270-1
Castrol Anti-Freeze NF
Caltex CX Engine Coolant
DEA Kuhlerfrostschutz
Elf Antifreeze Special
Fina Termidor
Glyco Star
Glyco Shell
Glysantin Protect Plus
Gusofrost LV 505
Mobil Frostschutz 600
Havoline AFC BD04
Total Multiprotect
Veedol Antifreeze NF
OMV Kuhlerfroschutz

It appears VW's G11 and G12 specs are different 'G's than the G used in G48. BASF Protect Plus appears to be G48, though I've seen some references that they are different products. This is equivalent to VW G11/TL774C and is spec'd for BMW 600 69.0. Spot-checking some of the other products on that list also show 600 69.0.

VW G12/TL774D is a silicate-free spec equivalent to G30/33/34 (latter two being color differences) that is what's often called 'lifetime fluid'. This is said to be more compatible with aluminum components over time, thus 'lifetime.'(really 4-5 yrs vs 2-3).

If BMW recommends silicated fluid, stick to it and make sure it gets changed. Whatever happens, do NOT mix silicate and silicate-free coolants. There appears to be a lot of talk in the VW community about VW's G11 to G12 changeover and improper changeovers causing disasterous problems, especially on VR6 motors, which run notoriously hot.

It appears that switching to silicate-free will not cause any problems given the old stuff is completely gone, and the car is never topped off with silicate (i.e. dealer) fluid.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Kaz said:


> This is getting curioser and curioser, as they say.
> 
> I have a list of recommended brand names (all euro stuff of course) out of a year-old TIS.
> 
> ...


They're not necessarily "different Gs". If you read some of the VW VR6 threads, one guy has a pretty funny tale about going to a dealer to buy coolant for his 96 VR6 which was originally filled with "G11". The dealer tells him there's no such thing, and that he needs "G48". He asks why its printed in the owner's manual and on the coolant cap-- the SA shrugs. He calls VW customer service, who tells him that they've never heard of G11 and to ONLY use G48. :rofl: And we think BMW is bad... No one seems to know for certain if there is a difference between G11 and G48-- and if G11 is still available. I guess we have it a lot easier, since BMW seems to have always recommende G48, and that's what they sell. I do wonder if the newer "lifetime coolant" BMWs come w/ G12. Although its clear that the Vr6 probably has some design issues, these VW threads really make it clear that choosing the correct coolant can make a big difference.


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## ipollard (Oct 17, 2003)

Kaz said:


> ---- <snipped for brevity> ---
> If BMW recommends silicated fluid, stick to it and make sure it gets changed. Whatever happens, do NOT mix silicate and silicate-free coolants. There appears to be a lot of talk in the VW community about VW's G11 to G12 changeover and improper changeovers causing disasterous problems, especially on VR6 motors, which run notoriously hot.
> 
> It appears that switching to silicate-free will not cause any problems given the old stuff is completely gone, and the car is never topped off with silicate (i.e. dealer) fluid.


Taking the above into account, coupled with the assumption (using basic chemistry as the rationale) that a lower pH coolant/water mix provides the greatest longevity for the plastic components of our BMW cooling systems, is there a lower pH coolant (relative to G48) that is nitrite and amine free? (The phosphate issue being moot for the US market.)

Comparing the pH value from the Zerex G48 data sheet against those of the newer organic acid technology (OAT) coolants (G12, Peak Extended Life, DexCool, etc.) as well as the HOAT (hybrid OAT) coolants, (Zerex G-05, which is MB approved) at best, the differences are marginal.

Considering that most of us, even without the benefit of this thread, will flush our coolant every 2 years or sooner, it's easier to refill using the OEM G48 coolant. Or make sure that you flush all of the old G48 coolant before filling with G12 coolant.


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## ipollard (Oct 17, 2003)

Made a few calls this morning to local VW, Saab and Volvo dealers for G48 coolant and the lowest prices that I was quoted were $17, $20 and $22, respectively.

What are these guys smoking?!

Kinda makes the BMW coolant seem quite reasonable, even without the CCA discount.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

ipollard said:


> Made a few calls this morning to local VW, Saab and Volvo dealers for G48 coolant and the lowest prices that I was quoted were $17, $20 and $22, respectively.
> 
> What are these guys smoking?!
> 
> Kinda makes the BMW coolant seem quite reasonable, even without the CCA discount.


Interesting. BMW often gets a bad-rap for high parts prices-- but more often than not, I hear of prices from main-stream (or other luxury manufacturers) that exceed BMW's pricing. VW seems to be a big offender-- apparently, in some cases certain parts are cheaper at Audi dealers than at a VW dealer!


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

robg said:


> Interesting. BMW often gets a bad-rap for high parts prices-- but more often than not, I hear of prices from main-stream (or other luxury manufacturers) that exceed BMW's pricing. VW seems to be a big offender-- apparently, in some cases certain parts are cheaper at Audi dealers than at a VW dealer!


Very true. Lexus car parts are outrageous, some have Toyota alternatives 50% cheaper, talk about rip off...


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

What's BMW coolant cost, and is it 50:50 concentrate or ready-to-use?


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> Very true. Lexus car parts are outrageous, some have Toyota alternatives 50% cheaper, talk about rip off...


A friend of mine needed a seatbelt for a Camry and it was easier and cheaper to get a ES300 part.


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## drmwvr (Feb 21, 2003)

LmtdSlip said:


> In this link Audi used the color Red to denote a special coolant fluid for the early A8s (toyota has done this as well).


For what it's worth, my '97 A4 had red coolant as well


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## ipollard (Oct 17, 2003)

Kaz said:


> What's BMW coolant cost, and is it 50:50 concentrate or ready-to-use?


Just picked some up today. It's $17.95 per gallon, straight coolant, no pre-mix. With my CCA discount plus sales tax (4.5%) it was $15.95.

I had forgotten how notoriously expensive VW parts are. Back in the late 80s when I had a GTI, a good friend of mine who had a 320 would always joke that it was cheaper to buy a BMW than a VW because of the exhorbitant cost of VW parts. I didn't realize that some VW parts were more expensive than their Audi equivalents.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Kaz said:


> A friend of mine needed a seatbelt for a Camry and it was easier and cheaper to get a ES300 part.


Maintenance items like oil filters, etc. are always more expensive from Lexus even though they come straight from Toyota. I recently was quoted $45 for A/C filter, bought it from Toyota for $25, the same is true for almost all other parts. 
Assuming that nothing serious breaks when the car is out of warranty I think maintenance on my bimmer is going to be less than my wife's Lexus.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Hmm, $16 to get ~2gals isn't half bad. I'm willing to bet that premixed Motul stuff is $3-5/liter at minimum, and that's ~8l to get 2gals.

Speaking of expensive parts, I wonder what Rolls Royce charges for the oil filters for the BMW-powered cars. I was watching a thing on TV last night and the oil filter housing cap looks like the ones E39s and E46s use.


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## ipollard (Oct 17, 2003)

Today, I finally got a response from Valvoline recommending Zerex G-05 for my Y2K 328ci. I specifically asked them if it was NAP (nitrite, amine and phosphate) free - indicating that I wanted to avoid any potential warranty issues - and they confirmed that G-05 is.

So for those of you who want an alternative to the BMW-approved coolant, add Zerex G-05 to your list, but make sure that you flush all of the original coolant.


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## mrt0mjones (Apr 3, 2006)

so, my coolant looks like a brown or purple..

i'm going to change it asap.. but what should i use..

whats the best bang for my buck???


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

mrt0mjones said:


> so, my coolant looks like a brown or purple..
> 
> i'm going to change it asap.. but what should i use..
> 
> whats the best bang for my buck???


Only BMW coolant.


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## GraemeD (Dec 24, 2005)

mrt0mjones said:


> so, my coolant looks like a brown or purple..
> 
> i'm going to change it asap.. but what should i use..
> 
> whats the best bang for my buck???


Zerex G-05, it meets all the requirments of G-48(BMW coolant)
Pep Boys & NAPA carry it


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## thatwouldbegrea (May 18, 2006)

My first thought was Zerex G-05.

Here's the chart from valvoline that confirms this:

http://www.valvoline.com/zerex/pdf/Zerex_CoolantChart.pdf


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## mmmm7 (Aug 24, 2007)

*Zerex G-05 has nitrite according to the Valvoline FAQ*

I think Zerex G-05 has nitrites.

The FAQ of Zerex G-05 on valvoline.com says:



> Can Zerex G-05 be used in diesel applications?
> Yes. Zerex G-05 is a fully formulated (nitrite containing) coolant that will help protect diesel engine cylinder liners from pitting corrosion. It has also been approved by Cummins and Deere & Company.





ipollard said:


> Today, I finally got a response from Valvoline recommending Zerex G-05 for my Y2K 328ci. I specifically asked them if it was NAP (nitrite, amine and phosphate) free - indicating that I wanted to avoid any potential warranty issues - and they confirmed that G-05 is.
> 
> So for those of you who want an alternative to the BMW-approved coolant, add Zerex G-05 to your list, but make sure that you flush all of the original coolant.


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