# New to forum! Will BMW ever bring manuals back? Diesel?



## Powderchaser (Aug 21, 2013)

As a purist that has driven in 35 Countries it is hard for me to get away from MT. I currently have the 6 speed Jetta Sport wagon and love the practicality however it lacks the fun factor. I am also a wagon guy. I heard BMW ditched the 3 series manual wagon last year. Does anyone think these diesels coming to the states will eventually have a manual option like the Jetta that has sold very well? How about the new A4 diesel? Any rumors? AWD and a diesel would be my dream car, MT


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Very unlikely that you'll see any of them with a MT.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

One of the main reasons for the 8 speed is that it allows the 328xdt to out-perform the Jetta diesel wagon, yet get better mileage.

BMW just can't make money on a MT wagon when they sell only 500-800 of them a year. Not going to happen.


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## Powderchaser (Aug 21, 2013)

*How about the non diesel wagon? That went away a few years ago*

Even the diesel sedan would work foe me with a stick?


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Many lease their BMW's and resale of a MT is more difficult in the US market, getting lower residual value. Long term, MT wins with much lower repair and maintenance costs, but US BMW customers seem to buy them often and early.

PL


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## stoked335d (Jan 4, 2010)

MTs are a dying breed. There is even rumors of B9 S4 being auto only. New auto trannys are more fuel efficient, faster 0-60 than most MTs and manufacturers are making a choice between cost vs small % of enthusiasts that prefer MT. I hardly see gas engine e90 wagons. Now, you want MT, AWD, Diesel wagon BMW in the States...fuggetaboutit!!!


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

stoked335d said:


> MTs are a dying breed. There is even rumors of B9 S4 being auto only. New auto trannys are more fuel efficient, faster 0-60 than most MTs and manufacturers are making a choice between cost vs small % of enthusiasts that prefer MT. I hardly see gas engine e90 wagons. Now, you want MT, AWD, Diesel wagon BMW in the States...fuggetaboutit!!!


With the EPA's way of calculating fuel economy, flawed as it is already, its easy to see how a manufacturer can "game" the automatic's shift points to make the numbers look good. I'd like to see some real data showing a MT gets less economy than a power-sapping, heavier automatic, no matter how much better they have become than previous automatics.

The reason the auto-manuals are popular with the likes of Ferrari and on Formula 1 cars is that with that much power and speed, its obvious that the driver has one less thing to do and can concentrate on keeping the car on course. I don't really imagine my sports car experience to be in the 200+ mph world, especially with no lack of confidence in my masculinity.....

I'm sure the decision for manufacturers is purely economical. The new automatics are much more expensive compared to manuals, but they need to sell cars.

PL


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

having 2 extra gears helps a lot with the mileage deal. If you compare conventional autos (not dpk, dct, etc) and compared them with manuals using the same # of gears, same ratios, same shift points, and same throttle inputs then I would be incredibly surprised if the auto showed better mileage. Sure, the traditional automatics today are more efficient than older auto's that take huge amounts out of your output, but I cant even figure how they could be more efficient than manuals. In the end, most likely manuals are being ditched because its too costly to include as an option and only end up selling them in 1-2% of sales.


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## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Plus the fact that the manuals have to be certified by both EPA and CARB which costs money -- so it is just not cost effective to do that for few sales -- plus difficulty in moving them when used -- the manuals except in the very small economy type cars, or dedicated "sport" cars are really a dying breed. Sad, but progress moves on.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

UncleJ said:


> Plus the fact that the manuals have to be certified by both EPA and CARB which costs money -- so it is just not cost effective to do that for few sales -- plus difficulty in moving them when used -- the manuals except in the very small economy type cars, or dedicated "sport" cars are really a dying breed. Sad, but progress moves on.


I really do like the newest BMW 8 speed ZF automatics. But the fine manuals of recent memory are so easy to use and so nice to drive, I can't get away from a smaller engine/manual transmission in a classic BMW experience. With sport package of course, unburdened by the heavy macho engines with the thirsty V8's and V10's. BMW and Honda have always made the best manual transmissions in my experience.

PL


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

does it SNOW in South Florida? No, NOT going to happen amigo!!


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Powderchaser, I see you live in the mountains so at least you have a shot at AWD in the 328D. I have a friend who works in Louisiville, CO .. pretty close to you. I won't start up my "cryin for a stick" speel but i can relate.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

I wouldn't be surprised if they ditch the manual for the new M3.


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

Why manuals. Stop and go traffic during rush hour. Stop light to Stop light. Seems like be more work than any
mileage benefit. Beside with the new auto's great mileage without all the work


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

I dunno. It's hard for a 6 speed to beat an 8 auto.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

txagbmw said:


> Why manuals. Stop and go traffic during rush hour. Stop light to Stop light. Seems like be more work than any
> mileage benefit. Beside with the new auto's great mileage without all the work


In your post substitute "fun" for "work" and then you'll understand.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

txagbmw said:


> Why manuals. Stop and go traffic during rush hour. Stop light to Stop light. Seems like be more work than any
> mileage benefit. Beside with the new auto's great mileage without all the work


I've heard this before. It's never been an issue with me in heavy traffic and a manual. I miss having the ability to go into neutral and coasting, or just having the correct gear at the right time etc. It's more difficult to do this with an automatic. I guess to each their own.

Some of us walk, some of us dance.

PL


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

One of the original reasons I began to love sports cars was that it was like going on a roller coaster. Once I had my original Porsche I stopped going on roller coasters because it was much more fun. All the automatic driver aids now in cars remind me of someone sitting on a roller coaster just to enjoy the ride and not participating like in an original sports car.

PL


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## Powderchaser (Aug 21, 2013)

*Thanks. I love mountain driving! When I go to Europe the stick wins in every rentaL*



BB_cuda said:


> Powderchaser, I see you live in the mountains so at least you have a shot at AWD in the 328D. I have a friend who works in Louisiville, CO .. pretty close to you. I won't start up my "cryin for a stick" speel but i can relate.


I might need to move to Europe to satisfy my craving


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Even in Europe the manuals are disspearing. Supply/demand and cost are all factors. It costs over $1million to certify a particular car/engine/trans combination in the US. If they are going to sell a few hundred units, a big loss to the company on each sale, and if they covered the cost of certification in the selling price the car would cost 2X as much. Manuals use to be more energy efficient and higher performance than automatics, not any more. Only different is driver experience. And if I'm not mistaken BMW has standardized on one 8 speed Zf transmission, varying the number of discs in a clutch pack depending on torque handling requirements. There is a lot to be said for standarization in lowering costs, and training requirements for techs. At least the 8 speed Zf seems to be a very reliable unit, unlike BMW transmissions of a decade ago. Today there are few BMW models left with a manual. But I do wish the would work on tuning the electric steering and not ruin that part of the driving experience. While its tight and responsive, there is no feedback in the steering wheel.


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