# Excessive price from dealer. What's fair price?



## nyclio (Apr 16, 2008)

Dealer quoted me $370 (including tax) for tire alignment and putting nitro in my tires. The car has about 19k miles on it. Do I really need this and what should I expect to pay?


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

nyclio said:


> Dealer quoted me $370 (including tax) for tire alignment and putting nitro in my tires. The car has about 19k miles on it. Do I really need this and what should I expect to pay?


Assuming it is a regular, 4 wheel alignment, and not for active steering or something like that, $250 is plenty. Call up Pace BMW in Mamaroneck, or a couple of other dealers near you.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

nyclio said:


> Dealer quoted me $370 (including tax) for tire alignment and putting nitro in my tires. The car has about 19k miles on it. Do I really need this and what should I expect to pay?


Too much. An alignment - even at a dealer - should cost no more than $175 or so. Nitrogen is a scam; never pay for it - only worth it if free.


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## nyclio (Apr 16, 2008)

What about local places here in NYC that charge 50-70 for alignment? Are those any worse than a $$$ alignment from the dealer?


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

I bought 4 tires at a local dealer, and went to him because he used road force balancing and said he had aligned BMWs before.

Well, he tried it three times and he couldn't get the steering wheel to come out straight, so he didn't charge me. He said I had to take it back to BMW, maybe there was something to do with a steering wheel sensor, he didn't know.

I took it to my dealer, they said they had to completely unalign the car and do a four wheeel alignment, and it wound up costing about $250. They didn't try to sell me nitrogen or anything.

IMO, nitrogen is a scam, but others don't think so.

Anyway, that is my experience. Maybe it had to do with the shop, or maybe BMW needs to do a steering angle reset, or maybe nothing, I don't know. But $370 is way too much.


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## kurtv (Sep 21, 2005)

*Tire Alignment*

My local garage was $169 and the BMW dealer in Austin was $189. I went to the dealer and you could tell they used weights by a touch of sand in the trunk.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Dump the Nitro. It's silly to use it in a non-racing application


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## mt3ch (May 4, 2003)

Dont pay more than $199 for an alignment at a BMW $tealer. Nitro is cool since you dont have to worry about varying air pressure due to temperatures, but its a waste of moolah considering the fill up goes for $20-30.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

mt3ch said:


> Nitro is cool since you dont have to worry about varying air pressure due to temperatures...


Nitrogen reacts no differently than regular air when it comes to temperature. You heat it, it expands (increases pressure); you cool it, it contracts (lowers pressure.)


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## aajax26 (Oct 5, 2004)

My understanding is Nitrogen molecules are larger than Oxygen hence they don't leak at the same rate hence the loss in air pressure is less :dunno:

Costco fills it for free with tire purchase.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

floydarogers said:


> Nitrogen reacts no differently than regular air when it comes to temperature. You heat it, it expands (increases pressure); you cool it, it contracts (lowers pressure.)





aajax26 said:


> My understanding is Nitrogen molecules are larger than Oxygen hence they don't leak at the same rate hence the loss in air pressure is less :dunno:
> 
> Costco fills it for free with tire purchase.


Both of you are correct. However, I have found that nitrogen has minimal benefits over reguar air and as such I refuse to pay for it. Both of my cars came with it free, but I would not pay for it. Also, despite having nitrogen I still have to add air to my tires every couple of months so I fail to see the benefit.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have Texas air in my tires and not had to add air to any of them in well over a year. Now three of the tires were replaced a few months ago but still I have not had to deal with any air leaks on this car since the first year I owned. The first year I owned the car i was dealing with leaks every couple of months. I am guessing either I had some nails I was unaware of or had German air in the tires and that stuff is prone to leak out.


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## swood02 (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm going to drive to Texas next time mine need air.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

aajax26 said:


> My understanding is Nitrogen molecules are larger than Oxygen hence they don't leak at the same rate hence the loss in air pressure is less :dunno:
> 
> Costco fills it for free with tire purchase.


Rememebr 'AIR" is 78% nitrogen already! Once the smaller O2 molecules leak out, it will be all nitrogen anyway. :rofl: I'm not paying for it.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

In the defense of this section of Texas, we also typically do not have to do deal with massive changes in outside air temps. It pretty much is just always hot and humid.


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

Snipe656 said:


> I have Texas air in my tires and not had to add air to any of them in well over a year. Now three of the tires were replaced a few months ago but still I have not had to deal with any air leaks on this car since the first year I owned. The first year I owned the car i was dealing with leaks every couple of months. I am guessing either I had some nails I was unaware of or had German air in the tires and that stuff is prone to leak out.


Like most everything else in Texas, the air molecules are bigger there. We have these teeny little dipsh!t molecules up here in the Northeast.


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## edwin191 (Apr 27, 2011)

I paid $149.95 to have a 4 wheel alignment at my dealer here in town.


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## starrfyr (Jun 5, 2012)

*N2 tire gasses*

I love Nitrogen in my tires! Makes the ride super smooth that I absolutely insist that any gasses used to pressurize my tires be at least 74% N2! Don't settle for anything less! :rofl:


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## starrfyr (Jun 5, 2012)

Kamdog said:


> Like most everything else in Texas, the air molecules are bigger there. We have these teeny little dipsh!t molecules up here in the Northeast.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## starrfyr (Jun 5, 2012)

*Size matters!*



Alpine300ZHP said:


> Both of you are correct. However, I have found that nitrogen has minimal benefits over reguar air and as such I refuse to pay for it. Both of my cars came with it free, but I would not pay for it. Also, despite having nitrogen I still have to add air to my tires every couple of months so I fail to see the benefit.


The double bond length of O2 is 121pm while the triple bond length of N2 is just short of 110 pm. This means the O2 nuclei are 11+pm further apart and if this was the only factor determining molecular size, O2 wins. But, it isn't. Each O with 6 'unshielded' protons to N's 5 means that the electron cloud around each O nuclei is pulled in a bit closer than the N's cloud.

Hence, N2 is larger than O2. But, it's larger by a few PICOmeters!! Quite frankly, anyone who pays for N2 is, a) dumb, b) a douche, or c) both.


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