# 1st DE (Buckeye BMW CCA at Putnam Park)



## indyzhp (Mar 29, 2004)

I just got my acceptance letter for the Buckeye BMW CCA Driving School at Putnam Park (July 8-9th).

I’m pretty excited, it should be a great learning experience. I’ve been reading up through the forums on what to bring, expect, leave at home (ego).

I think I’ll go ahead and contact my insurance agent. He’s a good guy, so he should be straight up with me on my coverage for driving events.

I plan on running stock brakes, but since I need to flush the fluid anyway, I might go a step up on the fluid. I’m still unclear on which fluid I should go to. I’ve got DOT 4 in my car now. I was looking to get some Motul RBF 600, but don’t see any DOT rating, and it is synthetic, which I understand should not be mixed with what I currently have. If I shouldn’t mix, how exactly do you go about flushing the system? I don’t want to use Super Blue, since it stains and I don’t want to upset BMW while I’m under warranty. Any advise on what to go with?

I signed up for the course to gain a better understanding of both the car’s and my limits, so I was wondering if I should go into the event knowing that I will get some fade and use that as a learning experience on how to deal with it and when to expect it??? I can get some Castrol SRF through my work, if it is just stupid not to go with the best.

Some other tidbits. Would it be a good idea to wash the brake dust off the wheels each day? I guess it wouldn’t hurt?

Any other advice?


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

indyzhp said:


> I plan on running stock brakes, but since I need to flush the fluid anyway, I might go a step up on the fluid. I'm still unclear on which fluid I should go to... I don't want to use Super Blue, since it stains and I don't want to upset BMW while I'm under warranty. Any advise on what to go with?


Ate TYP 200 is the same exact thing as Ate Super Blue, but it's not blue.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

Cool, I'll be there, too.

As Phil suggests, Ate Typ200 is the same as SuperBlue other than color, and that should be good for you. Motul works great, but it's a bit more expensive ($15 for 1/2 liter, versus $12 for a liter of Typ 200). SRF is probably overkill at this point. These are all DOT4.

Some people do fine with OE pads, some do not. I have always suggested upgrading the pads; after all, these are your brakes.

No need to wash your wheels. And don't cover your car with blue tape. You might as well use the tape to write out "ASSHAT WANKER" across your back bumper.


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

Flushing and fresh brake fluid is always a good idea...
But for your first DE I don't think I'd recommend new/different pads unless you need new pads anyway. Most first timers don't come anywhere near using the full potential of their standard brakes.. (this said by someone who has "DE'ed" all of two times.  )

You will be amazed at what our cars are capable of! Make sure you get a ride with an instructor as soon as you can to better understand what you should be striving for.

Mike


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

grayghost said:


> Flushing and fresh brake fluid is always a good idea...
> But for your first DE I don't think I'd recommend new/different pads unless you need new pads anyway. Most first timers don't come anywhere near using the full potential of their standard brakes.. (this said by someone who has "DE'ed" all of two times.  )
> 
> You will be amazed at what our cars are capable of! Make sure you get a ride with an instructor as soon as you can to better understand what you should be striving for.
> ...


:stupid: I got three DE's and 16k of street miles out of my stock brakes, and I still had 50% of the pad material left. A brake flush is a good idea though.

Let me know what you think of Putnam - the Windy City group is going there the end of August.


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## indyzhp (Mar 29, 2004)

Look for me there, I'll be the silver gray ZHP sedan, topping off my ZHP oil.



elbert said:


> As Phil suggests, Ate Typ200 is the same as SuperBlue other than color, and that should be good for you. Motul works great, but it's a bit more expensive ($15 for 1/2 liter, versus $12 for a liter of Typ 200). SRF is probably overkill at this point. These are all DOT4.


Thanks Elbert and Phil. Does anybody even sell the good stuff in stores, or do I need to order online?



elbert said:


> Some people do fine with OE pads, some do not. I have always suggested upgrading the pads; after all, these are your brakes.


I'm not sure if I measured the pad wear correctly, but if it is from the pad backing plate to the friction surface, I've still got 9-10mm on the front and 8mm on the rear. I thought new was 11mm. I must be using the engine to brake too much :dunno: I've got 18K on the car now. Maybe the dealer replaced them without reporting it??



elbert said:


> No need to wash your wheels. And don't cover your car with blue tape. You might as well use the tape to write out "ASSHAT WANKER" across your back bumper.


 :rofl: 
I was going to ask about tape, but I've already got a clear bra installed on the front end, so hopefully it will do it's job. Plus, I don't expect to be running behind any dump trucks at Putnam.


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## indyzhp (Mar 29, 2004)

grayghost said:


> You will be amazed at what our cars are capable of! Make sure you get a ride with an instructor as soon as you can to better understand what you should be striving for.


I will actually be required to ride with an instructor in my car for a lap before I even turn a wheel.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

indyzhp said:


> I will actually be required to ride with an instructor in my car for a lap before I even turn a wheel.


That's normal. The instructor is mostly checking out your car to make sure it feels ok to him - he is after all trusting his life to it as he will spend the rest of the weekend in the passenger seat. None of my instructors have ever push my car to its limits.


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## indyzhp (Mar 29, 2004)

Pretty much a "dynamic" tech


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

indyzhp said:


> Look for me there, I'll be the silver gray ZHP sedan, topping off my ZHP oil.
> 
> Thanks Elbert and Phil. Does anybody even sell the good stuff in stores, or do I need to order online?
> 
> ...


Make sure to use zhp air in your tires. 

You can find Typ200 or Motul at a good performance or race shop (there has to be a bunch in Indy) or you can get it online. Most run-of-the-mill auto parts stores probably won't have it.

Buckeye chapter is pretty anal about pad thickness. They want >75% of pad material remaining, which is about 8 mm _not including the backing plate_.

As for the pad compound, it's your call. I don't know you or your abilities or your previous experience, but I do know a couple people who have cooked their OE pads at their first school.
It seems none of you have been to Putnam before. It is a short track, with one longish straight and several heavy braking areas. The school is in July, and it will probably be hot. 
You can run OE pads if you like, and you will probably be fine. Personally, I wouldn't want to have to think about it. There is something to be said about having confidence in your equipment :dunno:


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

You're gonna love it!

Motul 600 RBF is priced better at sport bike shops. I get it for $9.99 a half liter. But ATE 200 should be good enough. Don't forget to bleed the clutch too.

Stock pads should be fine. I ran with my OEM pads and ATE 200 last August at Thunderhill in 98 degree heat. I was good for all sessions except the last one of the day where the pedal got a little soft on me. I chalk it up to poor braking technique. It's an adjustment to brake properly on the track vs the street. Once you make it, you won't cook the brakes anymore.

Take advantage of the instructor ride-alongs between sessions. They are very educational. Lots have stock cars with nothing special and can haul ass. It shows that big hp and tons of mods are not required when skill is there.

I was at Willow Springs this past weekend and wish I had another to attend this coming weekend. It's too much fun!!

Be smooooooooooooth!


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## indyzhp (Mar 29, 2004)

Well, I'm thinking I'm marginal on brake pad thickness then. I only measured the outer pads, and if 75% is 8mm, and I'm about 8-9 on the outers, the inners are most certainly below 75%. I just used a machinist scale to measure. Anyone got anything nicer, or the BMW tool?

I'm supposed to be getting some Performance Friction pads through my work, but they weren't supposed to order them until June 20th. Maybe I can get them to speed that up a little. Any top choices of PFC pads? I'm basically getting them for free, so I'm not sure how good of a pad I'll be able to get.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

I wouldn't worry about it if you're fairly close. They just eyeball it at tech.


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## grayghost (Jan 10, 2003)

indyzhp said:


> I will actually be required to ride with an instructor in my car for a lap before I even turn a wheel.


As the others said, the instructor will take it easy in your car. You want to ride with him (or any instructor) in their car, when he is running full speed.

Unless your brakes really get hot, your tires will be the limiting factor. At Road Atlanta there are several hard breaking points, the hardest is coming into turn 10(A&B). The braking zone is at the end of the long straight where I'm going about 115 - 120 in my 330Ci. It's also at the bottom of a downhill, so you're starting the breaking while still going downhill. I brake from 115 down to about 45-50 to go through turn 10. There may be courses that are rougher on the brakes, but RA is not easy!

I've got the two DEs, an AutoX school and AutoX day, and 20K street miles on my pads and still have plenty of pad left. Now, when my pads do need to be replaced, I'll probably put on some more 'robust' pads.

At the other end of the spectrum.... my last instructor really knew how to get the maximum out of his brakes! He had an M3 (SMG) with street tires (but sticky) but he was outbraking almost everyone else out there, even the guys with racing tires. Of course, that one weekend he went through between 3 and 4 sets of pads! If he wasn't driving or instructing, he was changing pads. But man, could he haul that M3 down from speed...


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

elbert said:


> You might as well use the tape to write out "ASSHAT WANKER" across your back bumper.


That's what I do. It makes me a little faster, I think. 

I did my first 2 or 3 track weekends on stock pads (but ATE Super Blue fluid) and it was fine. Only as I got faster did it become a problem. Putnam Park is a slow enough track so I'd think you're fine. It's not like Road America where you're braking down from 120+ mph 3 times per lap.

But if you start to see any signs of problems, BACK OFF. If the pedal starts to go father to the floor than that same braking zone last lap, turn it down a few notches. If the brakes don't grab like they did last lap... if you sense anything wrong, dial it down a lot. And tell your instructor right then.

My brakes once totally faded at 110 mph going into a turn. I don't recommend the experience at all. If you survive, you're at least in for expenses including a new pair of underwear.


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## rwh11385 (Jun 8, 2006)

Like you mentioned, keep ego in check and you should be fine. Make sure brakes are up to the task. The Hoosier BMW safety steward was very anal about brakes. I might need to make sure I have something up to the task. They would rather have a full OEM pad than me with a 60% Hawk HP+... weird.

Look for a group of a blue e30, red/pink e30, and a silver one on steelies. That'd be me and my pals Dave and Scott, and maybe another.

- Robert


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Tape - I realized while washing my car after last weekend why people put tape on their car. In 100+ degree heat, tires spew hot rubber up onto the front of cars behind them. I had splotches of it all over my bumper, hood, a-pillars and side mirrors.

I agree tape looks like ass, but an ounce of prevention...


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

JonW said:


> Putnam Park is a slow enough track so I'd think you're fine.


That's because your car is slow :neener:

Are you going to be there? Just tell your woman she can unpack later


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

jvr826 said:


> Tape - I realized while washing my car after last weekend why people put tape on their car. In 100+ degree heat, tires spew hot rubber up onto the front of cars behind them. I had splotches of it all over my bumper, hood, a-pillars and side mirrors.
> 
> I agree tape looks like ass, but an ounce of prevention...


Most of those marks can be removed fairly easily by washing the car. I use HD-cleanse for the stubborn ones. I'm sure bug-and-tar remover will work just as effectively.

The tape doesn't just look like ass, it makes you look like an ass too :angel: :stickpoke


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

elbert said:


> That's because your car is slow :neener:
> 
> Are you going to be there? Just tell your woman she can unpack later


Hey, at least I don't have to hide behind 333 HP.  
189 HP and a 130,000 mile old stock suspension, baby! 

I doubt I'll be able to make this one. But I'm thinking about the late August and late October schools at MidOhio. Still thinking about watching the F1 in Indy?


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