# Introducing....my new ride.



## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

(Start a new thread?! Sure, why not.)

On Saturday, I will be the new owner of a 1988 M3 with just over 82000 miles on the clock. It is only the 117th E30 M3 to be imported here, and its build date is 3/87. :yikes: The car is Diamond Black (of course) with Pearl Beige interior, and like all E30 M3s, it is loaded (in E30 terms). Cosmetically the car needs nothing except for a patch of missing clearcoat on the front bumper. Mechanically, the car needs a new windshield, valve adjustment, throttle body synch, and that's about it. The car is stock except for a short shifter, OEM Evo airbox, OEM glass sunroof (replacing the body-colored moonroof), Hella halogen headlight lenses, and a few other small things. Obviously the stock suspension will be one of the first things to go.

I joined the E30 M3 SIG to learn more about the car and to find some for sale. I had found one in Pittsburgh, and was talking fairly earnestly with him, until I ran into problems selling my '99. I then found this car just 30 miles away from home. As fate would have it, I found another serious buyer for my '99 at the same time. The rest is history. 

We should do another back-to-back, only this time adding my car to the mix (after she's been properly tuned).


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2003)

Congratulations!! :thumbup: 

If I had unlimited funds and a really big garage, I'd have an E30 M3. I love the car and hope I get a chance to take yours for a spin.

I think is truly funny how the march back in time continues. You set out initially to get a 330Ci. Then you drove an E36 M3 and bagged the 330 order. Now you're dumping the E36 for an E30.

I marched backwards from an E46 I actually owned to the E36 and am now semi-seriously looking for an E34 M5. Sure, I'm not going back to 1987. But it's still backwards.

I'm eager to hear your living-with-an-E30-M3 reports.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Did you get the car checked out? No mechanical problems, rust?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *Did you get the car checked out? No mechanical problems, rust? *


The car was sent to a reputable local shop for a pre-delivery inspection. All of the items I noticed before were verified, and the car was otherwise straight. This car is also documented very thoroughly -- I have records going back to delivery of all maintenance and service and ownership.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Is this your daily driver or is a weekend/track car?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



TD said:


> *I think is truly funny how the march back in time continues. *


I have now purchased the following cars, in this order:

2000 Pontiac
1999 BMW
1996 Jeep
1988 BMW

Apparently, my next steps are some early-mid 80's American car, followed by an E21.

Oh, and DC guys -- test drives are available. Just remember two things:

1) The car is not yours. But it loves to be driven.
2) The car does not feel very special until the revs climb. Below, say, 5000 rpm, it feels rather boring, like a not-that-fast E30 325i.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *I have now purchased the following cars, in this order:
> 
> 2000 Pontiac
> 1999 BMW
> ...


E30 M3 -----> Buick GNX -----> 2002 Turbo


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

I look forward to seeing it... After riding in Woody Hair's E30 M3, I'm REALLY interested.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *Oh, and DC guys -- test drives are available. *












I too am very interested in your "living with an E30 M3 reports"


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *I look forward to seeing it... After riding in Woody Hair's E30 M3, I'm REALLY interested.  *


Well now, I don't profess to have one tenth of Woody's experience or skill. But at least I'll have the same car.


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *
> 2) The car does not feel very special until the revs climb. Below, say, 5000 rpm, it feels rather boring, like a not-that-fast E30 325i. *


What is the rev limit? Weight?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



mwette said:


> *What is the rev limit? Weight? *


The car weighs a touch over 2800 lbs. In comparison, my '99 weighs 3175, the E46 weighs somewhere in the 3300-3400 lb area, and an S2000 weights 2850.

Engine: 2.3L I4, 195 hp, 170 lb-ft tq. Rev limit is 7250 but it has a chip installed (Conforti) that raises the limit relatively safely to 8000 rpm. The engine does not need all 8000 before it runs out of breath, but there's certainly plenty of life after 7250.

IIRC, this very same engine ran up to 10,000 RPM in modified form in the racing series that made the E30 M3 so famous. And people have said that the S14 engine is a descendant of the F1 turbocharged 4s of the era, which safely went far beyond 10,000.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *The car weighs a touch over 2800 lbs. In comparison, my '99 weighs 3175, the E46 weighs somewhere in the 3300-3400 lb area, and an S2000 weights 2850.
> *


E46 323 ~ 3153, 328 ~ 3197


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



nate328Ci said:


> *E46 323 ~ 3153, 328 ~ 3197 *


Hmm. Is the E46 M3 that much heavier, or is my figure incorrect?


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *Hmm. Is the E46 M3 that much heavier, or is my figure incorrect? *


Cast iron block. Yes, it really is that much heavier.

xiT: 3600-3700lbs. :yikes:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Woohoo!! A real E30M3 ! Congratulations :thumbup: 


Holy Moly, those weight figures scare the hell out of me every time when posted. :eeps:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *Cast iron block. Yes, it really is that much heavier.
> 
> xiT: 3600-3700lbs. :yikes: *


330xdT ~ 3940lbs :rofl:

Your car would look HUGE next to an E30 M3.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *Hmm. Is the E46 M3 that much heavier, or is my figure incorrect? *


Just the M3...

The 330 is 3285lbs, IIRC...


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

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Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *Cast iron block. Yes, it really is that much heavier.
> 
> *


E46 M3 weighs about 100 lbs more than a comparably equipped E36 M3.

Independent test done by Jay Morris at Ground Control


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



nate328Ci said:


> *330xdT ~ 3940lbs :rofl:
> 
> Your car would look HUGE next to an E30 M3.  *


Yeah the 325xiT is a pig at 3600+ lbs. My 190E 2.6 is only 2900lbs.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



atyclb said:


> *E46 M3 weighs about 100 lbs more than a comparably equipped E36 M3.
> 
> Independent test done by Jay Morris at Ground Control *


FWIW, I wouldn't call the E46 M3 "heavy." Not light, not by a long shot. But not heavy, as far as GT cars go.


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## in_d_haus (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *The car weighs a touch over 2800 lbs. In comparison, my '99 weighs 3175*


Yup, and the E36 is faster...so is the E46 for that matter.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



in_d_haus said:


> *Yup, and the E36 is faster...so is the E46 for that matter. *


Yep. HP/lb ratios have gone up steadily over the generations. The E46 is much faster than the U.S. E36, and still somewhat faster than the Euro E36 M3 Evo. The E36, of course, is significantly faster off the line than the E30.

What the E30 does better is not apparent until you are going at speed on a track. I do not know how the same driver would perform in an E30 vs. E36 vs. E46. However, I do know that far more powerful cars are constantly being harrassed by this little 4-banger that carries ridiculous speed around corners and can be tossed into bends with a flick of the wrist. The trick, of course, is to keep the revs up. Not easy to do in traffic, and not even all that easy at an autocross until one becomes experienced in driving this type of car. Just ask the S2000 guys, they'll say the same thing.

Beyond that, there's the incredible racing heritage of the car that is unsurpassed to this day. And the fact that the E30 M3 was created specifically for racing, and that the copies sold to the public were done so under homologation rules. And, just the fact that it's a really REALLY cool car. Cool enough, in fact, to make me let go of my '99. And that was not a simple accomplishment.

The E30 does make a much worse daily driver. It's certainly possible but I'd rather have the U.S. E36's low-end torque for commuting to work. Remember -- this will not be driven to work except for special occasions. I have the lemming mobile for that kind of stuff.


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## gek330i (Dec 27, 2001)

Congratulations. I envy any E30 M3 owner. :thumbup: 
If I had space and $ for a track car the E30 would be it, in any color...
I love the way they look and the way the move around a track. When I think BMW that is one of the first pictures that comes to mind, an E30:


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *The car weighs a touch over 2800 lbs. In comparison, my '99 weighs 3175, the E46 weighs somewhere in the 3300-3400 lb area...*


I'm not sure about all this "older is better" bragging.
I'm sure you're not saying that 20 years of technology is making things worse...
Yes the cars have gained some weight, but shouldn't safety be in your equation?
E46 - you're very likely to walk out of a 40mph head-on crash without a scratch
E36 - you probably could survive a 40mph head-on crash, but may involve ER.
E30 - ???


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## gek330i (Dec 27, 2001)

Another:


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

gek330i said:


> *Another:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


darn that Bangle! Flame surfaced and Bangle Butt-ed!

:eeps: :eeps:


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

gek330i said:


> *Another:
> *


Awesome photos. :thumbup: They make me even more excited about my purchase.


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## gek330i (Dec 27, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *Awesome photos. :thumbup: They make me even more excited about my purchase. *


When are you going to post some "wallpaper" quality pics of your ride? I'd love to see them.
Here's a bunch of pics: http://www.motoyen.com/media/mycar/mycar.html

And I got this one from here: http://www.motoyen.com/media/wallpaper/wallpaper.html


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



JetBlack330i said:


> *I'm not sure about all this "older is better" bragging.
> I'm sure you're not saying that 20 years of technology is making things worse...
> Yes the cars have gained some weight, but shouldn't safety be in your equation?
> E46 - you're very likely to walk out of a 40mph head-on crash without a scratch
> ...


I think you are forgetting an important law ruling our universe. The law of conservation of momentum. A car is not safer because it is heavier. In fact it is quite the contrary. A lighter car (ceteris paribus) will be safer. Unless you are running into another car, in which case (ceteris paribus) the heavier car will cause more damage to the lighter car. But the energy has to be transferred somewhere. The heavier the car, the more momentum is carries as it hits whatever it hits. The improvements in safety cages, stress analysis, materials etc help the frame absorb the energy instead of the passangers. So a stripped 2500 lb E46 is much "safer" hitting a brick wall than a 3300 lb E46 hitting a wall. Now if I had to pick one to hit a Geo Metro, sure, I would pick the 3300lb car which would assure the destruction of the other vehicle. But using weight as safety is the reasoning of SUV buyers. "Sure, I will be safe, who cares if I kill the people in the other car."


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



JetBlack330i said:


> *I'm not sure about all this "older is better" bragging.
> I'm sure you're not saying that 20 years of technology is making things worse...
> Yes the cars have gained some weight, but shouldn't safety be in your equation?
> E46 - you're very likely to walk out of a 40mph head-on crash without a scratch
> ...


You may very well be right re: the crash statistics. But let me ask you this:

When (or if) you see someone in a '65 Corvette coupe tearing it up at a track, or even just cruising around town enjoying the sights, do you wonder if he thought about safety when he contemplated the purchase? Or, in more contemporary terms, when you see a Miata or Z3 owner driving around with hair all amok and a silly grin on his/her face, do you think they're driving the wrong car because they would certainly be worse off in an accident or rollover?

You're absolutely right about safety and a number of other things. The E30 M3 is not zippier down the quarter mile than any of the newer M3s. It's not as safe, even with the gen. 1 airbag. It's expensive to fix if it breaks, more expensive than an E36. It's lighter, but the weight wasn't tacked on at the factory for nothing. New cars have safety and other features that have necessitated much of the weight. Of course, a new Honda Civic weighs under 2700 pounds and it is rated tops (in its class, not against H2s) by the IIHS.

But not one of those very practical things speaks to the reason why anyone would buy an E30 M3: Passion. Passion for the marque, for the model, for driving it at the raw limit. Passion for engines with individual throttle bodies, for bodies specifically modified to reduce drag and permit wider tires without modification. Passion for carving through mountain roads and competition courses, pushing the car to the limit of one's driving skill and feeling the car push back. You can do all these things in a newer M3. Hell, you can do these things in a new Kia Sephia. But for some people, those cars do not offer the same experience -- the same FUN, simply put -- as something like the E30 M3.

This is why you will see people buying rust bucket 2002s and painstakingly restoring them, racing them, showing them. I would hate to be t-boned in a 2002. But damn, those cars are awesome! Old 911s, no longer adored by the ultrarich simply because they are old, can be reborn as street/track monsters by those who have words like "Stuttgart" tattooed to their eyelids. Some people look at a Triumph TR-6, slowly rotting in a barn, and wonder why anyone would waste their money or time. Others can magically see the rust patches being repaired, the drivetrain being rejuvenated, and the tires re-screeching around the bends of their local mountain drive.

Like I said, it's not about safety or just what the numbers say about the cars. It's about passion. And I'm not saying that you don't have the passion, man. Some people just get that way over different things, and mine happens to include the E30 M3. Talk to almost any E30 M3 owner and you'll probably get the same far-away look as their eyes glaze over and they babble something similar to what I just typed in a stream of consciousness.

Drive on!  It's all about loving what you drive.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

gek330i said:


> *When are you going to post some "wallpaper" quality pics of your ride? I'd love to see them.
> Here's a bunch of pics: *


"In 7.6 seconds flat." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: My, how the times have changed. I also like the little asterisk next to the top speed of the car.

Once I have the car in my possession, I plan to do a detail job and take some beauty shots. The previous owner already has taken great car of it but I forgot to ask if he's a Zaino guy. I'll find this weekend when I take her home.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Two corrections to my soliloquy above.

1. The gen. 1 airbag was installed in M3s during the 1990 model year. The first 180 or so were shipped without airbags, and all remaining E30 M3s (through the '91 MY) had airbags. Of course, they are of the old design.

2. Regarding weight: I meant to say that the newer cars are not heavier from the factory for nothing. I think I explained it later, but that sentence came out really screwy.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *darn that Bangle! Flame surfaced and Bangle Butt-ed!
> 
> :eeps: :eeps: *


:nono:

Flame Surfacing means crossing and cutting the lines with curves that someone starts to feel dizzy after looking at the car


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## in_d_haus (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Jetfire said:


> *
> What the E30 does better is not apparent until you are going at speed on a track. I do not know how the same driver would perform in an E30 vs. E36 vs. E46. However, I do know that far more powerful cars are constantly being harrassed by this little 4-banger that carries ridiculous speed around corners and can be tossed into bends with a flick of the wrist. The trick, of course, is to keep the revs up. Not easy to do in traffic, and not even all that easy at an autocross until one becomes experienced in driving this type of car. *


Most of our senior driving instructors had E30 M3s but all have changed to the E36. They say that while the E30 is more "tossable" the speed of the E36 just wins out overall.

The E30 is an Awesome little car! Congrats! I'd love to have one in my stable.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



in_d_haus said:


> *Most of our senior driving instructors had E30 M3s but all have changed to the E36. They say that while the E30 is more "tossable" the speed of the E36 just wins out overall.
> 
> The E30 is an Awesome little car! Congrats! I'd love to have one in my stable. *


Jetfire'll have to do an Evo conversion. :angel:

Or an S52 transplant. :yikes:


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



mbr129 said:


> *I think you are forgetting an important law ruling our universe. The law of conservation of momentum. A car is not safer because it is heavier. In fact it is quite the contrary. A lighter car (ceteris paribus) will be safer. Unless you are running into another car, in which case (ceteris paribus) the heavier car will cause more damage to the lighter car. But the energy has to be transferred somewhere. The heavier the car, the more momentum is carries as it hits whatever it hits. The improvements in safety cages, stress analysis, materials etc help the frame absorb the energy instead of the passangers. So a stripped 2500 lb E46 is much "safer" hitting a brick wall than a 3300 lb E46 hitting a wall. Now if I had to pick one to hit a Geo Metro, sure, I would pick the 3300lb car which would assure the destruction of the other vehicle.
> *


You don't really have a point, do you?
If you do, please concisely state it, 'cause you lost me...
But read the JST post below yours first. He got it.



mbr129 said:


> *
> But using weight as safety is the reasoning of SUV buyers. "Sure, I will be safe, who cares if I kill the people in the other car." *


Who said anything about using weight as a safety?
Just for laughs... If a heavy car and a light car hit head on, in which car would you rather be? ceteris paribus my foot.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



in_d_haus said:


> *Most of our senior driving instructors had E30 M3s but all have changed to the E36. They say that while the E30 is more "tossable" the speed of the E36 just wins out overall.
> 
> The E30 is an Awesome little car! Congrats! I'd love to have one in my stable. *




I think, properly driven of course, the E36 would turn in faster laps. And an inexperienced driver (like me!) would find it easier to drive the E36 with its broad torque curve. There's that subjective and ever-controversial "feel," though, and a myriad of intangibles. My philosophy is that, by learning on a modestly powered car with superb handling and feel, I will be well prepared to drive just about anything successfully.

...And again, it doesn't hurt that the E30 is truly a modern classic. And that in race trim, it won more championships than any other car to date. I'm no race driver, but I can dream.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Introducing....my new ride.*



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *Jetfire'll have to do an Evo conversion. :angel:
> 
> Or an S52 transplant. :yikes: *


No S52, not in an M3. That would be blasphemous! Now, if I were to find a dead-engined E30 318is or 325is, well....perhaps that little project would take precedence over the 2002. 

An Evo conversion is enticing. But first things first. Like all E30 M3 owners, I must first buy the car, fix the car, drive it, then break the engine, THEN go 2.5. It's only fair.


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## JLee (Jul 19, 2002)

jetfire, i actually would like to hear more about your search and purchase...

i've been browsing for about a year waiting for something local, but actively ready to purchase about two months ago, i'm sure we called on the same cars :angel: 

but i was looking for a dedicated track E30 M3 since i was keeping my current M, but people were still asking over $13K for these cars and i just couldn't see getting into "accidents" with a car as collectible as the E30 ... so i was searching the $10K and under and after a couple of almost deals with people around the midatlantic, i gave up...alot of the cars outside my inspection area i had other people go see and they were just disasters waiting to happen

i know the two cars your talking about in PA, one sounded like a 1 owner car which i was really tempted by

anyway, i gave up, bought an AA Supercharger for my M to satisfy my impulse purchase need and will just dedicate this car in a year when its paid off and get a 540i wagon for a daily driver...

but hopefully we can meet and i can see what you got :thumbup: 

jeff


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