# Formula 1 2009 ^^^^Spoiler^^^^



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

cenotaph said:


> That's seems to be where the rules are headed...unfortunately.


Yep.

Slick tires are fine, but all of this other pie in the sky stuff is just silly. As are the near-sighted reasons for introducing them.

KERS is irrelevant, probably won't work as the FIA imagines, and of course, it is crazy expensive to engineer. Especially in this new environment of the FIA "forcing" teams to spend less.

I don't want to go on another rant, so I will stop there. 

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> It looks like a GP2 car with a bigger front wing IMHO.
> 
> .


That's what you get when The Turd is allowed to run the show.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Even BMW Sauber test driver Christian Klien thinks that the car is ugly as hell.

I think that the article is at autosport.com


.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Toro Rosso asked Montoya if he wanted to drive for them in 2009. :rofl:
> 
> He said no! :rofl:
> 
> .


He probably just didn't want to admit he couldn't fit in the cockpit anymore... :lmao:












> I don't find it guilty. I'll go from Taco Bell to McDonald's to everything.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Even BMW Sauber test driver Christian Klien thinks that the car is ugly as hell.
> 
> I think that the article is at autosport.com
> 
> .


I haven't been watching F1 for long (2004), but 2009 will probably be my last year with all of the ridiculous constant rules changes coming down the pipe. Max and Bernie (but mostly Max) are ruining the sport by turning the "Pinnacle of Motorsport" into a spec series. I wonder if Max will resurrect his "promotion/relegation" scheme again?

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Even BMW Sauber test driver Christian Klien thinks that the car is ugly as hell..


Its the front wing that is way out of proportion compared to the rest of the car.

The wing looks like the giant front wings of the top cataegory for Pikes Peak hill climb.

Some drivers have already complained that the wings will be easily damaged.


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

mrbelk said:


> I haven't been watching F1 for long (2004), but 2009 will probably be my last year with all of the ridiculous constant rules changes coming down the pipe. Max and Bernie (but mostly Max) are ruining the sport by turning the "Pinnacle of Motorsport" into a spec series. I wonder if Max will resurrect his "promotion/relegation" scheme again?
> 
> -MrB


I've been watching since 89 and I must admit, the 09 season might be the last season I watch or follow closely. Medals?! WTF.

Time to move to WRC full time.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

e46Christian said:


> Time to move to WRC full time.


I said the same too only I'm going to the ALMS series, LMP1 cars is one of the last series where there are no open wheels, good competion and some pushing and shoving because there are no open wheels.

Throwing in the lower LMP2 series of cars into the same race makes for great on track action.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Interesting comments. I have also resigned myself to the possibility that this may be the last year that I watch - and maybe not even for the whole season.

I already watch WRC, and we do have pretty good coverage of it here, but it is nothing like a Formula 1 weekend. Especially with Loeb doing a "Spoonface" every season.

I guess that by this time next year, we will be a lot wiser about these other drastic changes that the FIA wants.


.


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

Another look at the wackyness affects of the 2009 rulebook:


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Interesting comments. I have also resigned myself to the possibility that this may be the last year that I watch - and maybe not even for the whole season.
> 
> I already watch WRC, and we do have pretty good coverage of it here, but it is nothing like a Formula 1 weekend. Especially with Loeb doing a "Spoonface" every season.
> 
> ...


Loeb is not human.

I hope that Atkinson and Solberg finally find some pace (and luck) in the new car.


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

berford said:


> Bernie goes on my Turd list.


Apparently Bernie's wife feels the same way...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3458973/WITH-LEGAL-Bernie-Ecclestones-wife-leaves-marital-home.html

:rofl:


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Loeb deemed fast enough for F1.

Here's to hoping he'll leave WRC. :drink:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

There is a lot of younger talent available.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Ouch*

Mark Webber has been seriously injured after getting over by a car in Australia, during a charity bike race named after him. 

He has broken bones (multiple) in his arms and legs. It sounds like the injuries are not life threatening, but he will be out for a long time.

Damn.

.


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

*BMW Plans Overtaking Tests at Jerez*

Written by: SPEED Staff / GMM 11/21/2008 - 11:06 AM
Jerez, Spain

It is possible the aerodynamic rule changes for 2009 will make passing other cars easier in Formula 1, BMW Sauber test driver Christian Klien has said.

During tests with the German team's heavily modified interim car at Barcelona this week, the Austrian revealed that he noticed the 2009-specification wings make it easier "to drive closer to the rear" of the cars in front.

"Even more important is the air turbulence made by the car in front," he is quoted as saying by motorline.cc. "This should be clearly less (in 2009) because of the smaller rear wing. But since most teams were still using 2008 aerodynamics (in Barcelona), it is still hard to say,"he said.

Klien, 25, revealed that at next month's Jerez test, BMW plans to further investigate the effects of the new bodywork on overtaking by staging a mock race between the occupants of two modified F1.08 cars.

He also played down his widely reported comments this week that the interim car is the ugliest F1 car he has ever seen.

"I should probably explain that a racing car does not need to be beautiful," Klien said. "If it works and it's fast, it doesn't matter at all how it looks and the driver will love it.

"Beauty and elegance are pretty important for a road car. In racing, only speed counts."


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Mark Webber has been seriously injured after getting over by a car in Australia, during a charity bike race named after him.
> 
> He has broken bones (multiple) in his arms and legs. It sounds like the injuries are not life threatening, but he will be out for a long time.
> 
> ...


Too bad. Could have learned something from JPM perhaps.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Too bad. Could have learned something from JPM perhaps.


Yes, but Montoya was injured playing tennis! :rofl: 

Anyway, the latest is that Webber ONLY has a broken bone in his leg, and will recover for the start of the 2009 season. That said, he will miss all of testing this winter. Considering the changes to the cars for next season, I would guess that this is not a good thing for Webber.

And btw, the accident happened in Tasmania - to correct my earlier post.

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Yes, but Montoya was injured playing tennis! :rofl:
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



so he said, but widely speculated to have been mountain biking.
close


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> so he said, but widely speculated to have been mountain biking.
> close


It was actually a motocross accident. 

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 Grapevine - Nov 24th, 13:39 GMT
BBC confirms commentary line-up
The BBC has confirmed David Coulthard and Eddie Jordan as part of its presenting team for its Formula One television coverage in 2009.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> F1 Grapevine - Nov 24th, 13:39 GMT
> BBC confirms commentary line-up
> The BBC has confirmed David Coulthard and Eddie Jordan as part of its presenting team for its Formula One television coverage in 2009.


Too bad that they can't get Edmund Irvine as a commentator! :rofl:

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Nov 25th, 10:31 GMT
Montoya says he turned down F1 offers
Juan Pablo Montoya says he has turned down offers to return to Formula One since his move to NASCAR, and the Colombian claims he is not interested at all in going back to grand prix racing.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> F1 News - Nov 25th, 10:31 GMT
> Montoya says he turned down F1 offers
> Juan Pablo Montoya says he has turned down offers to return to Formula One since his move to NASCAR, and the Colombian claims he is not interested at all in going back to grand prix racing.


:bigpimp:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3691434&postcount=16

.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

*Rubens spilling the beans...*

There isn't any doubt that his career is over so he decides to cry a little 

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/11/25/barrichello-admits-ferrari-team-orders/

Yeah, he surely didn't know what he was doing signing his new Ferrari contract... :rofl:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> There isn't any doubt that his career is over so he decides to cry a little
> ...


Just finally telling the truth, as I see it. No surprises here.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Someone finally tells the truth.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Nov 26th, 11:19 GMT
Jordan says medal system is 'nonsense'
Former team boss Eddie Jordan believes Bernie Ecclestone's plan to replace the Formula One points system with medals for the top three finishers is misguided - and a distraction from the bigger issues facing the sport. 


Terrific, someone is willing to go against the comedy act of 'Max and Bernie'.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> f1 news - nov 26th, 11:19 gmt
> jordan says medal system is 'nonsense'
> former team boss eddie jordan believes bernie ecclestone's plan to replace the formula one points system with medals for the top three finishers is misguided - and a distraction from the bigger issues facing the sport.
> 
> Terrific, someone is willing to go against the comedy act of 'max and bernie'.


+1


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

And Ecclestone said today that he is 100% sure that the medal "thing" will happen next season because ALL of the teams are behind the idea.

WTF? :dunno: :tsk:


.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

patrick said:


> wtf? :dunno: :tsk:


+1


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Medals, new qualifying rules, friday cash prizes...the list goes on.

It's a race to the bottom. I wonder how many people will still follow F1 faithfully after this last batch of wanton stupidity.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

For the last few years I had hoped that things would get better. But after seeing the current circus I'm convinced that F1's better days are behind them.

No matter what they do they will never again see anything as good as what it used to be.

(Does that sound like...back in my day..blah blah...) or (..we're fast going down...)

I got the last one from a guy that was 93 at the time


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*And just when you think it can't get any worse...*

Here comes the standard engine package, brought to you by Ilmor.

For the 2010 season, Ilmor could supply ALL Formula 1 teams with the exact same engine. V8 (no news about displacement), normally aspirated, and limited to 14,000 RPM. This engine would last 6 races.

Tomorrow, we will know if this is going to happen.

Good grief, and good bye Formula 1.

:thumbdwn:

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 3rd, 11:05 GMT
Willis: KERS won't help overtaking
Red Bull Racing's technical director Geoff Willis says the introduction of KERS to Formula One next season won't make much of a difference to overtaking.


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

franka said:


> F1 News - Dec 3rd, 11:05 GMT
> Willis: KERS won't help overtaking
> Red Bull Racing's technical director Geoff Willis says the introduction of KERS to Formula One next season won't make much of a difference to overtaking.


Surprise, surprise.

What a waste of resources. :thumbdwn:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> F1 News - Dec 3rd, 11:05 GMT
> Willis: KERS won't help overtaking
> Red Bull Racing's technical director Geoff Willis says the introduction of KERS to Formula One next season won't make much of a difference to overtaking.


Ummmmm, did a RB car ever overtake anyone anyway? :dunno::bigpimp:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Honda set to reveal F1 exit plans 

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, December 4th 2008, 20:47 GMT 


Formula One is bracing itself for an announcement by the Honda Racing team on Friday morning that could pave the way for one of grand prix racing's biggest names to exit the sport.

Amid the worldwide financial downturn and the impact that has had on Honda's car sales, it is understood that the Brackley-based team's future is now in serious doubt.

Insiders have told autosport.com that the team's senior staff were called for a meeting at the factory on Thursday afternoon and informed that Honda in Japan were no longer willing to bankroll the outfit.

It is suggested that the team will be put up for sale - and if no buyer is found by March then the manufacturer will simply pull the plug and withdraw from the sport.

Amid the current financial climate, it is unclear where Honda Racing would hope to find a buyer willing to support a Formula One team - with budgets already in excess of £100 million per year.

There are suggestions, however, that Honda may be willing to offload the team free of charge to anyone willing to support it - and they could even continue to supply engines for a period of time until another technical partner is found.

However, sources have suggested that team principal Ross Brawn is already eyeing a tie-up with Ferrari for power-units should a buyer be found - with the Italian manufacturer having spare capacity now after ending their deal with Force India.

It is understood that Brawn and F1 CEO Nick Fry are scheduled to fly to meetings in Tokyo on Monday to discuss the future of the team with Japanese bosses - and especially define what happens if no buyer is found.

Honda Racing remained silent about the speculation on Thursday evening, with neither press officers nor senior team personnel available for comment. It is understood the staff informed of the decision were told not to discuss the matter prior to an official announcement being made.

It is expected Honda will issue a press release early on Friday morning revealing their plans. It comes after a challenging year for the team, which had begun a rebuilding process under the leadership of Brawn. 

Any pullout by Honda Racing will send shockwaves through F1, and cast question marks over the future of other manufacturers' longterm participation. It would also come several months after FIA president Max Mosley warned that the sport was unsustainable at the moment because of the high costs needed to compete.

It would also mean the grid being reduced to just 18 cars, and would leave drivers Jenson Button and Rubens Barrichello without seats.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Finally someone is telling Max and Bernie to stick it. I applaud them for this move. Maybe 1or 2 more will also pull the plug on this pair.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 4th, 21:36 GMT
FOTA to propose radical cost-cuts
Formula One's team owners will present a package of radical cost-cuts to the FIA World Motor Sport Council next week, as they move to head off the threat of a standard engine being introduced. 

Bernie plays this game all the time. He thretens to to use a stad engine. He lets Montreal know they have been dropped not by him but thru the news papers that then they come running to appease him. He's done this with the English tracks more than I can count.

If the mfgrs would stick together they could get what they want but someone always breaks and runs back to Bernie, usually Ferrari.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Geniuses*


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## Scott_H (Feb 12, 2003)

franka said:


> ....a ban on the mechanical purging or tyres....


Assuming this was supposed to read '*of* tyres' what are they talking about?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Scott_H said:


> Assuming this was supposed to read '*of* tyres' what are they talking about?


I think they are refering to the use of Nitrogen or other gases in the tyres


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Patrick said:


> I can officially announce that I won't be watching Formula 1 in 2010. :flush:
> 
> .


I can officially announce that I will only watch F1 in 2009 if the racing is better than last year and if BMW is truly competitive. It just amazes me that the major MFG's like BMW, Merc, Toyota, etc. can be "for" any of this. Where is the innovation? How is a spec series relevant to their ideas that racing technologies that they develop can have applicability to their road cars?

I guess I will have to do some more research on what the major touring car series are in the US and where BMW will have a presence. I am salivating at the M3 in ALMS. I guess that will be what I watch.

I can say that my wife will not be too disappointed if I quit watching F1.

-MrB


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

Yeah, this is looking too good. Will be interesting to see if the FOTA agreed to it or if we will get manufacturer replies to this. I don't see BMW staying in a series that looks like this. Their money would be better spent on other forms of motorsport IMO.


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## KK (Apr 27, 2005)

So whats the deal with Renault being allowed to modify their engine?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Renaults enegin was not up to the power of the others so the other teams ok some change




F1 News - Dec 12th, 16:35 GMT
Mosley says rules 'a major step forward'
FIA president Max Mosley believes the radical cost-cutting measures ratified today are a double success for Formula One - because they will secure the sport's future and not rob it any of its appeal.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

franka said:


> IA president Max Mosley believes the radical cost-cutting measures ratified today are a double success for Formula One - because they will secure the sport's future and not rob it any of its appeal.


Clearly, the moron isn't talking to the fans. It is quickly losing lots of its appeal. Granted, in the current world economy, they do have to do something to hold down the costs, but THIS AIN'T IT!


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 15th, 12:00 GMT
Schumacher tips Vettel for F1 glory
Michael Schumacher believes Sebastian Vettel has what it takes to be a Formula One world champion in the future.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 14th, 10:26 GMT
Mosley: Public must decide on medals 
FIA president Max Mosley thinks it would be wrong to change Formula One's points system unless the public support the move - even though he admits introducing the current structure was a 'mistake.' 


Max says public will decide on medals. What a joke. The man has no credability. :thumbdwn:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

bjf123 said:


> Clearly, the moron isn't talking to the fans. It is quickly losing lots of its appeal. Granted, in the current world economy, they do have to do something to hold down the costs, but THIS AIN'T IT!


+1

I don't think they listen to anyone.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 17th, 13:06 GMT
Kubica expects KERS to hamper him
Robert Kubica believes the added weight of the new-for-2009 Kinetic Energy Recovery System will penalise him - but hopes BMW still uses the device as its new car has been designed around it. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

F1 News - Dec 17th, 12:24 GMT
Cost cuts could hit drivers' wages

Formula One drivers will be the next to suffer the consequences of the worldwide economic downturn by being forced to accept reduced wages, claims Ferrari's team boss.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 17th, 11:45 GMT
Di Montezemolo sees new F1 power balance
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo believes the era of Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone's domination of Formula One is over - and thinks the current costs crisis may accelerate change at the senior levels of the sport. 

Hurray, hurray best F1 news of all in 2008.


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

franka said:


> F1 News - Dec 17th, 11:45 GMT
> Di Montezemolo sees new F1 power balance
> Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo believes the era of Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone's domination of Formula One is over - and thinks the current costs crisis may accelerate change at the senior levels of the sport.
> 
> Hurray, hurray best F1 news of all in 2008.


That's his opinion. You are going to have to pry F1 from Bernie cold, dead hands before he gives up any control.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

franka said:


> F1 News - Dec 17th, 13:06 GMT
> Kubica expects KERS to hamper him
> Robert Kubica believes the added weight of the new-for-2009 Kinetic Energy Recovery System will penalise him - but hopes BMW still uses the device as its new car has been designed around it.
> 
> ...


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Some drivers have multi-year contracts that should protect them for a year or more.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Some news from the last couple of days (no links - they are in Finnish, sorry) that I will translate for you.

Luca di Montezemolo says that 4-5 teams plus Ferrari would have left Formula 1 if the FIA's standard engine package would have gone through.

Ferrari may just race next season without KERS and take the weight penalty.

De la Rosa was fastest in testing at the brand new track in Algarve, Portugal, using a McLaren with active KERS, then goes on to say that KERS won't make a difference.

Force India has outstanding debts to both Ferrari and McLaren, and if these go unpaid, the question of who will be the team principle as well as who will be the drivers in 2009 will not be clear.

Kubica doesn't want KERS at all, in fact using it will mean that he will be forced to drop more weight (last season, he had to lose 7kg). He thinks that a car WITHOUT the [silly] KERS system will be faster than one with it.

TATA from India is now a Ferrari sponsor for 2009.

That is about all for now...

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Bruce said:


> That's his opinion. You are going to have to pry F1 from Bernie cold, dead hands before he gives up any control.


I see your point.

On the other hand he has not been as old as his is now and that can change everything. That's the wild card.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 18th, 11:03 GMT
Raikkonen determined to make amends
Kimi Raikkonen has told Ferrari that he is 'determined' to make amends for his disappointing 2008 campaign as he eyes a second world title next year. 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

franka said:


> I see your point.
> 
> On the other hand he has not been as old as his is now and that can change everything. That's the wild card.


With Bernie getting divorced he needs more money. LOL


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Here is something to get us back on track*

Briatore: Alonso surpasses Schumacher

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, December 25th 2008, 09:52 GMT

Renault boss Flavio Briatore believes Fernando Alonso has qualities that surpass even his former driver Michael Schumacher - especially when it comes to handling pressure.

Although drawing short of specifying which driver he believes was better, Briatore has claimed that there was one area where Alonso is much better than the seven-time world champion.

"They are two different drivers, in different eras of F1," Briatore told the latest edition of F1 Racing magazine. "But between the two I believe Fernando makes fewer mistakes than Michael.

"The more pressure you put on Fernando, the better he gets. Michael was not so good at handling pressure."

Briatore claims that Alonso's aborted switch to McLaren, which ended after a turbulent 2007 season, did make the Spaniard an improved driver.

"Fernando is Fernando. He came with one more year's experience. And at this kind of high level, especially in a very competitive team, that's important."

Speaking about his feelings when Alonso announced back in December 2005 that he was switching to McLaren, Briatore said: "For sure it wasn't good. It was Christmas and this was not a good Christmas gift.

"I knew it would be difficult for him because the human part is very important to Fernando, but I knew he was not happy there. But I wasn't angry or disappointed. Just sad."


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Dec 23rd, 09:42 GMT
Mosley: Finding new president a challenge
FIA president Max Mosley has warned his potential successors to think carefully before putting themselves forward for the job, after saying he will wait until June next year to make a final decision about stepping down.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Where are the pictures of the new cars with new smaller wing in the rear and wider wing in the front, no body attachments, slicks and KERS?


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Briatore: Alonso surpasses Schumacher
> 
> By Jonathan Noble Thursday, December 25th 2008, 09:52 GMT
> 
> ...


Flavio is either stark raving mad or working some kind of Alonso-retention agenda. There is no comparison.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Where are the pictures of the new cars with new smaller wing in the rear and wider wing in the front, no body attachments, slicks and KERS?


Here:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> Here:


Thanks, I've seen that. Seems that is the only picture in the public domain.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I vote for removing the front and rear wings.

And require the use of standard, road car tires.


.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Bring back the ground effect chassis with tunnels and larger diffuser. No side skirts. Small wings front and rear.

The cars could run much closer together with more passing opportunities.

It could relate to, or cross over to, some passenger cars. Some higher end cars are already using them.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Thanks, I've seen that. Seems that is the only picture in the public domain.


It's from Dec. 17 testing session, so it's the newest out there.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Seems pretty paltry. Why are there not more pictures if this is the next hottest tech


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

:flush:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

gmlav8r said:


> :flush:


You are in the wrong thread.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> You are in the wrong thread.


:rofl:

Actually, he has a pretty good point.

"FLUSH"

And btw, The Turd is now suggesting that if he doesn't find someone competent enough to replace him by next June, he may run again for president of the FIA.

WTF? 

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Seems pretty paltry. Why are there not more pictures if this is the next hottest tech


Paltry is an understatement!

But hey, this is the new Formula 1... :tsk:

.


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

franka said:


> You are in the wrong thread.


I was just trying to keep my comment simple about F1.

My interest in the sport is fading.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Jan 5th, 16:12 GMT
Ferrari to launch new car next week
Ferrari will become the first team to launch their 2009 car after announcing that their new challenger will be unveiled on Monday, January 12.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

gmlav8r said:


> I was just trying to keep my comment simple about F1.
> 
> My interest in the sport is fading.


I'm with you on that.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Stewart launches attack on Ecclestone 

By Jonathan Noble Monday, January 5th 2009, 11:05 GMT 


Former world champion Jackie Stewart has launched a scathing attack on Formula One's commercial boss Bernie Ecclestone - claiming he has too much power, has no succession plan and takes too much money out of the sport.

Although Stewart has long been critical of FIA president Max Mosley, in a lengthy interview with The Times on Monday he shifted his attention to Ecclestone – suggesting that big change was now vital at the top levels of F1 management.

"The era of big change is now essential because the sport has grown larger than either the governors or the commercial-rights holders. And that's just a fact," said Stewart.

"It has taken too long to achieve the things it should have achieved years ago and that other sports have long ago matured to, and other sports have prepared themselves more fully for the opportunities that have come their way."

He added: "I don't think Bernie can bring people in to help him in a transition phase. He has been so used to total control that if you look at his structure you have to ask yourself 'is there a successor?' and you would say 'no'. 

"That is wrong. The commercial reality has to be recognised ... and there has (to) be continuity that the ageing process makes necessary."

Speaking about the way the sport's finances are shaped, Stewart also felt it wrong that 50 percent of the sport's revenues were pocketed by the commercial chiefs.

"Nothing is coming back into the sport," said Stewart. "The financial distribution of Formula One appears to have been sorted out by two people who have directed it in whichever way they have seen fit.

"Although this has been a significant benefit in some ways, it has also hurt the sport because the balance of contribution within Formula One is absolutely untenable.

"The teams have got all the capital investment, yet they get no more than 50 per cent of the revenues. The next largest capital investment is by the racetracks who currently receive little or nothing from the revenues apart from what they get for bums on seats.

"Hardly any of them receive anything from TV revenues or the circuit advertising or the title sponsorship or the commercial hospitality. How can they reinvest when they have little or no income outside of spectator attendance fees?"

And Stewart also maintained some criticism for Mosley, whom he has long called for to resign from his position as FIA president.

"I think Max should remove himself from the FIA completely and from motorsport and the motor industry," he says. "The FIA should replace him with somebody not from within its organisation or even within motorsport. 

"They should go out and headhunt a CEO who is going to rebuild the structure in line with modern practice to satisfy the investors in the sport and to give the FIA total transparency."


----------



## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

I've always liked Sir Jackie's honesty in speaking his mind.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Ecclestone has them by the balls as long as they fear him.


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2006)

mrbelk said:


> How is that thing legal? I thought the new aero regs banned all "appendages" like that?
> 
> -MrB


Maybe it was for testing something. Won't be on the 'racecar' itself?

Getting excited!


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

This from grandprix.com:

*MARCH 9, 2009*

*For the first time - all the F1 teams run together*

Today in Barcelona all 10 Formula 1 teams ran together for the first time this year but it is still a little early to suggest what is going to happen in Australia. The day's testing ended with Nick Heidfeld fastest in the BMW Sauber. He was six-tenths of a second ahead of the Ferrari of Kimi Raikkonen, which is the kind of gap one can only imagine has something to do with fuel loads. BMW said that its activities were related to the race weekends ahead and so it is safe to assume that Heidfeld had a low fuel load and did his time on what was in effect a qualifying run. Normally BMW Sauber runs its tests with full fuel loads and so this would explain the huge gap. The fact that Raikkonen was second quickest was no surprise but he was only a fraction clear of Jarno Trulli's Toyota and Jenson Button was within two-tenths at the wheel of the new Brawn-Mercedes. This was a particularly interesting effort as the team did rather better than one would normally expect on the first day of running. It is probably not going to do the team any harm to look quick at this point, but nonetheless Button seemed to be able to drive the car fast all the time. Others were obviously not pushing as hard.
Nelson Piquet's Renault, which has been amongst the slowest cars thus far in testing was fifth overall, but half a second off Button's pace and 1.3secs behind Heidfeld. There was a gap of another half a second back to Sebastien Bourdais who ran the Toro Rosso-Ferrari faster than the Red Bull-Renault on its first day of running. Mark Webber was just a tenth behind and it will be interesting to see whether this is a trend that continues.
Adrian Sutil was eighth fastest in the Force India-Mercedes, two tenths behind Webber, while Kazuki Nakajima's Williams-Toyota was another four-tenths in arrears, a time which seemed very slow indeed for the Williams, based on earlier tests.
Similarly the McLaren-Mercedes of Heikki Kovalainen was lurking at the tail of the field, a full second slower than Nakajima and clearly not at full pace.

*Perhaps there was something to Quick Nick's suggestion a few months ago that this was his year to shine.*


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Brawn car is untouchable and McLaren is in the middle of the pack at best.

It's gonna be a good season except for that ugly front wing. That wing does not help the sport. It will result in more cars than ever going out in the 1st corner increasing the need to start in the front.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

franka said:


> Brawn car is untouchable and McLaren is in the middle of the pack at best.
> 
> It's gonna be a good season except for that ugly front wing. That wing does not help the sport. It will result in more cars than ever going out in the 1st corner increasing the need to start in the front.


The Brawn GP car sure seems fast by the times; and McMerc doesn't.

I've thought the exact same thing re. front wing widths. They are _almost_ wider than the front track which is a recipe for absolute carnage in any sort of close racing. Kubica in an interview shared similar concerns and allowed that the drivers can't even see the front wing end plates because of the tires.

-MrB


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

mrbelk said:


> The Brawn GP car sure seems fast by the times; and McMerc doesn't.
> 
> I've thought the exact same thing re. front wing widths. They are _almost_ wider than the front track which is a recipe for absolute carnage in any sort of close racing. Kubica in an interview shared similar concerns and allowed that the drivers can't even see the front wing end plates because of the tires.
> 
> -MrB


The wing is mandated at the width of the car.

Two weeks and we'll all find out the affects of the rule changes for real. Should be fun to see how it works out. I still can't believe there's no in-season testing. Of course the red cars (never much for respecting the testing rules, whatever they are) will probably be out under the cloak of darkness. :bigpimp:


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

berford said:


> The wing is mandated at the width of the car.
> 
> Two weeks and we'll all find out the affects of the rule changes for real. Should be fun to see how it works out. I still can't believe there's no in-season testing. Of course the red cars (never much for respecting the testing rules, whatever they are) will probably be out under the cloak of darkness. :bigpimp:


Two weeks to decide if I will continue to follow F1...

Since they now have a standard ECU, I would think that the FIA could pretty easily determine the mileage on a motor or chassis or whatever to catch cheaters. This, of course, assumes that Ferrari are not in league somehow with the FIA.

-MrB


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> Brawn car is untouchable and McLaren is in the middle of the pack at best.
> 
> It's gonna be a good season except for that ugly front wing. That wing does not help the sport. It will result in more cars than ever going out in the 1st corner increasing the need to start in the front.


It's been an interesting week in testing...
BGP 001 can be a real surprise in Melbourne, even Kubica told La Gazzetta dello Sport that he would put his money on Jenson Button in Australia. There is some speculation that they tested without ballast and car was under the limit but the long runs showed the car is very quick. I'm happy the team survived.

BMW and Ferrari are very close with Toyota not far behind followed by Renault, Red Bull and Williams. It's gonna be interesting to see where McLaren really is. If they are really as slow as they showed in testing it will be a true test for Hamilton. I can't rank him higher than 4th at the moment, even after winning the championship.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

This just out (as lifted from Formula1.com):
*Driver with most race wins to become 2009 champion*

 
Formula One racing's governing body, the FIA, has approved a change to the points systems for this year's drivers' championship, which will see the title awarded to the driver with the most race wins. The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system.

If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the existing 10, 8, 6 etc. structure. The constructors' championship is unaffected.

The FIA's World Motor Sport Council accepted the proposal for the new system from Formula One Management at a meeting in Paris on Tuesday. An alternative proposal to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively was rejected.

Further changes agreed by the Council included minor tweaks to the testing regulations, increased media duties for teams and drivers at races, and a cost capping option for 2010 (see separate story). Honda's request to have their entry changed to the Brawn GP Formula One Team was also approved.

*The World Motor Sport Council's decisions in full:*

A number of measures were agreed to help reduce costs and increase interest in the FIA Formula One World Championship.

*2009 Formula One Regulations

Points*

The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season. If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.

The rest of the standings, from second to last place, will be decided by the current points system. There is no provision to award medals for first, second or third place. The Constructors' Championship is unaffected.

The WMSC rejected the alternative proposal from the Formula One Teams' Association to change the points awarded to drivers finishing in first, second and third place to 12, 9 and 7 points respectively.

*Testing*

Teams will be allowed to carry out three one day young driver training tests between the end of the last event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year. Drivers are eligible only if they have not competed in more than two F1 World Championship Events in the preceding 24 months or tested a Formula One car on more than four days in the same 24 month period.

Teams can also conduct eight one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January 2009 and the end of the last Event of the 2009 Championship.

*Media*

The FIA will publish the weights of all cars after qualifying at each Event.

For greater clarity for spectators and media, wet tyres have been renamed "intermediate" and extreme-weather tyres renamed "wet".

On the first day of practice all drivers must be available for autograph signing in their designated team space in the pit lane.

All drivers eliminated in qualifying must make themselves available for media interviews immediately after the end of each session.

Any driver retiring before the end of the race must make himself available for media interviews after his return to the paddock.

All drivers who finish the race outside the top three must make themselves available immediately after the end of the race for media interviews.

During the race every team must make at least one senior spokesperson available for interviews by officially accredited TV crews.

A number of further amendments were adopted for the 2009 Technical Regulations. Full details will be available shortly on www.fia.com.

*2010 Formula One Regulations

Budgets*

As an alternative to running under the existing rules, which are to remain stable until 2012, all teams will have the option to compete with cars built and operated within a stringent cost cap.

The cost cap is £30m (currently approximately €33 or $42m). This figure will cover all expenditure of any kind. Anything subsidised or supplied free will be deemed to have cost its full commercial value and rigorous auditing procedures will apply.

To enable these cars to compete with those from teams which are not subject to cost constraints, the cost-capped cars will be allowed greater technical freedom.

The principal technical freedoms allowed are as follows:

1. A more aerodynamically efficient (but standard) under body.
2. Movable wings.
3. An engine which is not subject to a rev limit or a development freeze.

The FIA has the right to adjust elements of these freedoms to ensure that the cost-capped cars have neither an advantage nor a disadvantage when compared to cars running to the existing rules.

The Honda Racing F1 Team requested to change its name to the Brawn GP Formula One Team. The WMSC accepted this request on the basis that the team is, in effect, a new entry in the FIA Formula One World Championship. The contract the team had with the FIA was to run as 'Honda', which they are no longer in a position to do. However, the standard fee required for a new entry has been waived.


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2006)

Terrible. That is what it is... Why was the 12, 9 and 7 points for First, Second and Third rejected?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Terrible. That is what it is... Why was the 12, 9 and 7 points for First, Second and Third rejected?


No team other than a winning team would want that system. Its for all those teams that are behind 1st place. It gives all of them more points.


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2006)

Right. So is the champion a guy that wins 5 races, get some DNF and the rest he gets all 3rd or 4th place. Should he get the title over someone that gets 1 win, a handful of podiums and 1 or 2 DNFs? Who was a better overall driver? I am going with driver 2.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

FIA said:


> Points
> 
> The WMSC accepted the proposal from Formula One Management to award the drivers' championship to the driver who has won the most races during the season. If two or more drivers finish the season with the same number of wins, the title will be awarded to the driver with the most points, the allocation of points being based on the current 10, 8, 6 etc. system.
> 
> ...


This is retarded. So Kimi could win the first 5 races and crash out or retire from the other 13 and win the championship? because Lewis wins 4, Felipe wins 4, Fernando wins a couple and so on? I thought the championships should reward season-long consistency. The FOTA proposal is perfectly sensible. Award a bonus point for pole position and another one for fastest lap.

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

mrbelk said:


> This is retarded.


Of course it is. Its F1.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

There are all sorts of scenarios I could image where this system would make no sense at all. The Turd keeps leaving his mark of stupidity on the sport.


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2006)

berford said:


> There are all sorts of scenarios I could image where this system would make no sense at all. The Turd keeps leaving his mark of stupidity on the sport.


I was so excited for the season and man this is not very exciting anymore.


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## Gh0sT (May 20, 2006)

berford said:


> *3. An engine which is not subject to a rev limit or a development freeze.*


Even though the new "medal" system is in. This is one of the real rule makers that allows f1 to become back again a CAR and DRIVER game.

I think it is huge that they are going to let engine development come back again, it is gonna separate the field, but more importantly bring back the 2005's engine power beyond 19,000 RPMs :thumbup:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Gh0sT said:


> Even though the new "medal" system is in. This is one of the real rule makers that allows f1 to become back again a CAR and DRIVER game.
> 
> I think it is huge that they are going to let engine development come back again, it is gonna separate the field, but more importantly bring back the 2005's engine power beyond 19,000 RPMs :thumbup:


_nota bene: _but not until 2010.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Gh0sT said:


> Even though the new "medal" system is in. This is one of the real rule makers that allows f1 to become back again a CAR and DRIVER game.
> 
> I think it is huge that they are going to let engine development come back again, it is gonna separate the field, but more importantly bring back the 2005's engine power beyond 19,000 RPMs :thumbup:


Yes, for the teams that voluntarily submit to the budget cap, this is huge. I wonder if all of the big spenders like Ferarri, Toyota, BMW, etc. will take advantage of this. Can you imagine how glorious the sound from a 22k RPM V8 would be?

-MrB


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2006)

What is a cost capped car? And what teams are they? It sounds like 'some' teams can have movable wings and 'free' enignes while some cannot. Due to how much money they have?


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Hal[email protected] said:


> What is a cost capped car? And what teams are they? It sounds like 'some' teams can have movable wings and 'free' enignes while some cannot. Due to how much money they have?


It's not how much the teams _have_, it's how much they want to _spend_. Of course, reading more through the FIA statement, the FIA still reserves the right to tweak the regs to make sure that the teams with all this technical "freedom" don't innovate too much and get ahead of the teams that choose to eschew the "freedoms" afforded to a team complying with the spending cap.

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Mar 20th, 12:50 GMT
Australia preview quotes: McLaren
Lewis Hamilton: "There is no better place to begin the FIA Formula 1 World Championship than in Australia. The weather is fantastic, the facilities are excellent and the people of Melbourne make us all feel extremely welcome. Most importantly, everyone arrives with an air of enthusiasm and expectation. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

F1 News - Mar 20th, 12:47 GMT
McLaren plays down Australia chances

McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh has played down his team's chances for the season-opening Australian Grand Prix despite the squad's improved form in the final test at Jerez.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Mar 20th, 10:57 GMT
Hamilton saddened by FIA's decisions

World champion Lewis Hamilton has called on the FIA to start working with the teams to help improve Formula 1, after becoming the latest driver to criticise rule changes announced this week.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Interesting fact: Lewis Hamilton would have lost the title to Massa under new scoring system.

Past seasons:

________Most victories___Champion
1958____Stirling Moss____Mike Hawthorne
1964____Jim Clark_______John Surtees
1967____Jim Clark_______Denny Hulme
1977____Mario Andretti___Niki Lauda
1979____Alan Jones_____Jody Scheckter
1981____Alain Prost_____Nelson Piquet
1982____Didier Pironi____Keke Rosberg
1983____Alain Prost_____Nelson Piquet
1984____Alain Prost_____Niki Lauda
1986____Nigel Mansell___Alain Prost
1987____Nigel Mansell___Nelson Piquet
1989____Ayrton Senna___Alain Prost
2008____Felipe Massa___Lewis Hamilton

Thoughts?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Right now Hamilton is on the CNN.com front page article complaining about new rules.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Interesting fact: Lewis Hamilton would have lost the title to Massa under new scoring system.
> 
> Past seasons:
> 
> ...


Notice that Schumi doesn't show up. He was so dominant in every way that it wouldn't have mattered. Don't know if that makes it good or bad. Nigel would have been happy with the new system, I suppose.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

berford said:


> Notice that Schumi doesn't show up. He was so dominant in every way that it wouldn't have mattered. Don't know if that makes it good or bad. Nigel would have been happy with the new system, I suppose.


Schumi criticised the new system but you're right, it didn't matter to him. Also notice that Nelson Piquet would have been without a single WDC title.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

What happened to the missing 1990s and early 2000s


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> What happened to the missing 1990s and early 2000s


The winner would have been the same under either system. As noted, most were Schumi's years.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

That may be but I would still like to see the full list of names. There are 15 yrs and maybe more than that were not included. Those years are the most current.

Was there a reason to exclude all those years and all the other names (beside Schu)?


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> That may be but I would still like to see the full list of names. There are 15 yrs and maybe more than that were not included. Those years are the most current.
> 
> Was there a reason to exclude all those years and all the other names (beside Schu)?


I excluded these years because the driver who had most wins or tied for most wins was also crowned the champion.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

The new championship rule may be postponed till 2010


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> The new championship rule may be postponed till 2010


They had better make up their minds soon. Perhaps they'll announce their final decision after they know if Ferrari wins the first race or just scores some points. If SF wins they could implement the new system and cancel the rest of the season.


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## goinglightbarny (Jan 25, 2009)

bernie and max are both insane.what is max doing back anyway??shouldnt he be goose stepping to the bedroom??


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Mar 20th, 08:56 GMT
Montezemolo slams 'absurd' rule changes
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has voiced further criticism about the raft of radical rule changes that the FIA announced earlier this week.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Let the games begin!!! May Mario be wise, may Robert be schrewd and may Nick be quick.

It's been such a long time since the fabulous Brazil ending.


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## Galun (Aug 14, 2002)

Interesting to see that in practice 2, 6 of the top 7 spots belong to Brawn, Toyota, and Williams - the three parties with the diffusers in dispute.

I guess the diffusers really work.


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## Gh0sT (May 20, 2006)

The three teams that have the questionable diffuers, all on top.

Christian Horner called it "no surprise" (Williams, toyota, brawn)

The next two weeks will belong to those teams. However, two things are going to happen: 1) the rules will change, or all of the teams are going to redevelop the cars to match the diffusers...

The third race tells all.


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## Gh0sT (May 20, 2006)

1) KERS is actually burdernsome to carry onto the track. Needs to be developed to be efficient. (Example: Heidfield vs Kubica)

2) Questionable Diffuer teams carried 5 out of the 6 drivers to the top 10, 3 in the top 5.

Dangerous teams that do not have the diffuser problem and is in the Top 10 in order: Red Bull, Ferrari, BMW.

Even with the Brawn/Virgin GP success. Red Bull is competative having not the diffuser or KERS and within .250 seconds of Brawn. BMW and Kubica without KERS or the diffuser is just behind the nose of Red Bull. Watchout for the Ferrari's: In the top 10, not in the diffuser spotlight, carries the extra weight with KERS, and is within a half a second (.500) of Brawn. The prancing horses are looking dim at the moment but do not count them out when they figure out the diffusers.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Qualifying Australia:
*2009 FORMULA 1 ING AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX*


PosNoDriverTeamQ1Q2Q3Laps122Jenson ButtonBrawn-Mercedes1:25.2111:24.8551:26.20219223Rubens BarrichelloBrawn-Mercedes1:25.0061:24.7831:26.50521315Sebastian VettelRBR-Renault1:25.9381:25.1211:26.8302145Robert KubicaBMW Sauber1:25.9221:25.1521:26.91419516Nico RosbergWilliams-Toyota1:25.8461:25.1231:26.97321610Timo GlockToyota1:25.4991:25.2811:26.9751973Felipe MassaFerrari1:25.8441:25.3191:27.0332189Jarno TrulliToyota1:26.1941:25.2651:27.1272094Kimi RäikkönenFerrari1:25.8991:25.3801:27.163211014Mark WebberRBR-Renault1:25.4271:25.2411:27.24620116Nick HeidfeldBMW Sauber1:25.8271:25.50414127Fernando AlonsoRenault1:26.0261:25.605121317Kazuki NakajimaWilliams-Toyota1:26.0741:25.60716142Heikki KovalainenMcLaren-Mercedes1:26.1841:25.72615151Lewis HamiltonMcLaren-Mercedes1:26.454no time51612Sebastien BuemiSTR-Ferrari1:26.50310178Nelsinho PiquetRenault1:26.598121821Giancarlo FisichellaForce India-Mercedes1:26.677101920Adrian SutilForce India-Mercedes1:26.74292011Sebastien BourdaisSTR-Ferrari1:26.964 
10
*******>
********>
If you were to graph grid positions and driver numbers (excluding Force India) you would get a near reverse plot. Whew.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

I wonder if Honda is rethinking their withdrawal from F1? Probably not. Congrats to Button, Barrichello, and Brawn.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

The really scary thing is that now that the FIA is posting the Q3 car weights, we can see who's running heavy or light to start the race. The Brawn GP cars walked all over the field in Q3 and they have ~22 laps of fuel on board. Compare this to Kubica who only has ~17 laps on board. I got this info from itv-f1.com.

The first two races will probably see Brawn 1-2 finishes, barring crashes or retirements, but once all the teams get new diffusers onto their cars, I think we'll see the field catch up. I just hope the FIA doesn't do anything rash to "equalize" things.

-MrB


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)




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## Gh0sT (May 20, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


>


Why are you crying? Ithoight this race was excellent. My boys double end out of the points but the next few races look interesting


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

I am new to F1 and really enjoyed the race. No comments on the ending though.


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## edgar620 (Aug 26, 2007)

hockeynut said:


> I am new to F1 and really enjoyed the race. No comments on the ending though.


Damn that ending.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

While my two favorite teams are Ferrari and BMW, I was happy for Brawn GP. They had such a bad off season, not knowing if they'd even be around (though I think Ross had this idea in his back pocket). It shows they certainly did a good job developing the new car last year. As was mentioned a few posts back, the real tell will be when everyone else gets the rear diffusers in place, or when the FIA rules them illegal and Brawn, Toyota, and Williams have to remove them.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Diffusers are legal. They were ok'd many months ago before the car designs for this year were frozen. The non-diffuser teams have to catch up.


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

franka said:


> Diffusers are legal. They were ok'd weeks ago. The non-diffuser teams have to catch up.


Group buy?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

There is a legal charge against the diffusers set for a hearing but I doubt that the diffusers will be banned.

But you never know for sure in F1 :dunno:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Mar 31st, 12:50 GMT
Rosberg: Twilight races dangerous
Williams driver Nico Rosberg believes Formula 1's twilight races are dangerous and reckons this weekend's Malaysian Grand Prix could be stopped if the weather is poor. 

Agreed plus night races too, thay are too expensive and also not safe.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

In case you haven't read the post race stuff and thought Jarno got third (as I did), read this from Grandprix.com:

*Hamilton is third - Vettel pays for his honesty*

 Sebastian Vettel, Australian GP 2009 
© The Cahier Archive

Lewis Hamilton has been declared the third placed finisher in the Australian GP. The British driver was given the position when Jarno Trulli was given a 25-sec penalty for passing another car behind the Safety Car. The Toyota driver went off at the same time as the Safety Car boards were being shown. Lewis Hamilton had no choice but to pass him. Trulli rejoined and felt that he should have the place back and so repassed the McLaren behind the Safety Car. As a result he loses his third place.
Sebastian Vettel was also in trouble for the incident with Robert Kubica, although most people felt this odd because it looked like the Pole‚Äôs mistake. The FIA said that the decision was made because Vettel had admitted that he was in trouble but wanted to hold his position. Kubica was a little impetuous but the stewards felt that Vettel was to blame. As a result of his honesty he will get a 10-place grid penalty in Malaysia. He and the Red Bull team were also given a $50,000 fine for continuing to drive with three wheels. Vettel was ordered to keep going by the team.


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## KK (Apr 27, 2005)

Vettle's grid penalty is BS. It was a racing incident.....he was just defending his position and didnt intentionally hit Robert....driving with three wheels on the other hand; stupid


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Harsh penalties for both Vettel and Trulli. I don't get why Trulli got 25s penalty and why it took FIA so long to come up with the decision. I can see why you'd take the 3rd place from him but 25s? He finished 12th as a result of that decision and IMO the penalty did not fit the crime. On top of that Hamilton acknowledged his team told him to slow down and let Trulli pass. Just typical FIA BS...


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

f1crazy said:


> harsh penalties for both vettel and trulli. I don't get why trulli got 25s penalty and why it took fia so long to come up with the decision. I can see why you'd take the 3rd place from him but 25s? He finished 12th as a result of that decision and imo the penalty did not fit the crime. On top of that hamilton acknowledged his team told him to slow down and let trulli pass. Just typical fia bs...


+1


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## keeble (Aug 6, 2007)

F1 Stewards have had controversal rulings in the past. Vettel had the inside line in that corner. Why couldn't Kubica cool it momentarily until out of that corner? I think Vettel caved too quickly to accept blame. Any talk of the other teams adopting the controversal defuser until its banned?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

keeble said:


> Any talk of the other teams adopting the controversal defuser until its banned?


Its not a bolt on option. To function well it has to be designed into the entire car. That is what has the other teams in arms against it. Its no quick fix. It could take 1/3 of a season to redesign and fabricate a replacement car.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The White House has "ordered" GM to pull out of NASCAR as its not essential.

I'm not a NASCAR fan but I strongly disagree with this WH.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Apr 1st, 18:49 GMT
FIA to re-open Hamilton/Trulli inquiry
Lewis Hamilton is to be summoned before the FIA stewards on Thursday afternoon in Sepang in order to clarify why Jarno Trulli passed him under safety car conditions in Australia, AUTOSPORT has learned.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> The White House has "ordered" GM to pull out of NASCAR as its not essential.
> 
> I'm not a NASCAR fan but I strongly disagree with this WH.


Toyota and Ford would be more than happy to fill the gap. That would be a dumb move for GM, but as we know, they are famous for it.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> Its not a bolt on option. To function well it has to be designed into the entire car. That is what has the other teams in arms against it. Its no quick fix. It could take 1/3 of a season to redesign and fabricate a replacement car.


From what I read BMW, McLaren, Ferrari and Red Bull are already working on it. Red Bull faces the biggest challenge because of the design of their rear suspension but the work started when they saw the results during testing.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

franka said:


> The races are boring. Or maybe its just the coverage?
> 
> This is the first post since mine of May 8th. Is it that no one cares anymore? I know that I am losing interest.


I have similar feelings this season. It doesn't help that the blau-mit-weiss is not really competitive yet. Had Kubica decided that discretion was the better of valor in Melbourne, at least BMW would be within shouting distance of Brawn and Red Bull. Until all the teams have similar underbody diffusers and are all competing on roughly the same field, the races will basically be Brawn (and possibly Red Bull) and then everyone else.

All of the regulations that Mad Max ramrodded through to increase overtaking, lower cornering speeds, reduce costs, etc. have done nothing to improve the "show." The teams who have to redo their diffuser designs are basically going to spend at least double what they would have otherwise just to break even; and it won't be until the season is half over before their designs are mature enough to compete. Apparently, the top Q2 lap time on Saturday set the track record; so the cars aren't any slower. There isn't any more overtaking than there was last year; even with KERS, adjustible front wings, etc.

Why can't the FIA just specify a bounding box for the car, a bounding box for the motor, a minimum car weight and some other very loose rules and let the teams figure it out and go racing. Force them to do some real engineering by saying that all the teams have X liters of fuel for the race and their cars better be able to get to the end on one tank because there's no refueling.

I don't think the "pinnacle of motorsport" should be a spec series. This whole bit about the capped/non-capped teams is ridiculous, too. Max knows that there is no way for the teams to cap themselves _and_ be able to put in the R&D monies necessary to put out a 22k RPM motor, movable front _and_ rear wings, or whatever other "toys" they get access to by volunteering to be bound by a cap.

Oh, and what moron thought that banning in-season testing was a good idea? Not only that, but the FIA wants to restrict wind tunnel time and CFD computing simulation time. How is a team supposed to adequately design upgrades to their cars?

I really hope the FOTA tell the FIA to go f*ck themselves over this budget crap. The GPMA could have been a good move; but the FIA and Bernie are great at the divide and conquer strategy.

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Agreed


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Here is action if not out on the track*

Red Bull will not enter two-tier F1

By Jonathan Noble and Gerhard Kuntschik Monday, May 11th 2009, 08:49 GMT

Red Bull's two Formula 1 teams will not be entered in next year's world championship, their owner Dietrich Mateschitz has confirmed, unless changes are made to budget cap rules introduced by the FIA.

With AUTOSPORT having revealed at the weekend that Toyota will not lodge its entry unless plans for a two-tier F1 are dropped, Red Bull Racing and Scuderia Toro Rosso are also set to join a boycott led by manufacturer teams.

Mateschitz visited the Spanish Grand Prix on Saturday, amid high political tension between the teams and FIA about cost-cutting rules that have been introduced for next season.

And he made it clear that Red Bull would join a host of manufacturer teams in withholding their entries for 2010 for now.

"If the proposed rules for 2010 remain unchanged, we will not enter next year's championship," said Mateschitz as part of an interview that appeared in the Austrian Salzburger Nachrichten newspaper on Monday.

"And I guess that won't do the works teams either. So possibly only two or maybe three of the existing teams will enter the championship.

"The conditions for 2010 at the moment make it impossible to sign in. But I hope there will be a meeting and a settlement before the entry deadline."

AUTOSPORT understands that unless a deal can be hammered out between FIA president Max Mosley and the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) when they meet before the Monaco Grand Prix, then the five manufacturer-backed tams plus the two Red Bull outfits will not lodge their entries.

Williams, Brawn GP and Force India are therefore likely to be the only teams to enter the championship. They will do so not because they do not support the opposition to a two-tier formula, but because their core business is racing in F1 - so to not be racing in 2010 would risk their company's futures.

Efforts have been made by Bernie Ecclestone in the last 48 hours to get the situation moving, with talk that the teams would like a set of technical regulations that allows any outfit to be competitive for 60 million Euros per year - with little to gain from spending more than that.

As well as the budget cap, there are concerns from teams about the FIA's governance of future rules.

In particular, sources suggest there is unease about the manner by which the FIA introduced the 2010 budget cap at an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council, plus a new proposal that means teams have no guarantee of stopping rule changes proposed by the FIA alone.

A new Article 8 of Appendix 5 of the 2010 Sporting Regulations states: "The TWG and the SWG will be consulted on any proposal for change to the Technical Regulations or Sporting Regulations which did not originate in either Group and their comments, if any, will be made available to the World Motor Sport Council when such proposal is discussed."

Ferrari, which has had some form of technical 'veto' on rule changes is particularly unhappy about this situation. Sources suggest that an official statement from Ferrari is expected at some point this week to clarify its position in the controversy.

When asked for Ferrari's position on the matter by AUTOSPORT, team principal Stefano Domenicali said: "This weekend, I had other problems that took place. For sure as you know we are trying to find a solution because this situation with the actual regulations is something that we do not think is the right way to go. We want to find a solution."


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Has there ever been an exciting race at Barcelona? The track has no place for overtaking and it's even worse now with the chicane at New Holland. Let's wait till Istanbul to see more exciting racing and possibly some overtaking. 

KERS is a complete fiasco, it's more defensive tool than overtaking help as witnessed by the Massa/Vettel battle. Even if Vettel's Red Bull had KERS the outcome would've been the same.
More aero tweaks are needed to improve overtaking, banning double diffusers would've been a good start...


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

franka said:


> The races are boring. Or maybe its just the coverage?
> 
> This is the first post since mine of May 8th. Is it that no one cares anymore? I know that I am losing interest.


What I'm finding enjoyable is that the battle for the win is between someone other than Ferrari and McLaren (and I'm a big Ferrari fan). It's also interesting to watch each race to see if either of them have picked up any speed. Of course, the ban on in season testing is going to make that much more difficult. If in season testing was allowed, I'm pretty sure Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW would be back at the top, or at least a lot more competitive.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The lack of posts in this thread, even over a race weekend demonstrate that this sport is boring and losing fans.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

There are too many constraints in F1 to ever again make it the great sport it once was. 

The clock can not be turned back. F1 fans and owners will never again see the fun and the glory that the sport once was.


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## f1fan (Jun 22, 2007)

Franka, the sport is still amazing. Every sport has its stumbles and hiccups (eg. free agency), but they move on and with the right leadership rebound. This year we have seen mechanical grip attempt to outplay aero grip for the first time in years. Unfortunately the FIA left too much to interpretation and we have the diffuser teams trouncing the competition. This too will change. Maybe not this year but definately in the near future. And consider this; the 10 cars in Q3 were faster than the fastest lap from '08 AND the field is being separated by less than 2 seconds and most of the time separated by less than 1.5 seconds.  It may not be the sport we fell in love with and with most certainty it will never be the same again, but it is what we have and there is still much to be cheering for and I will do so until I am 6ft under.

P.S. I am still on the edge of my seat when they race in the rain. I replay/slow motion the first turn about 20 times. And I will go when the race comes back to the US and Canada.


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## Keyser Soze (Oct 24, 2003)

I tend to post more on the threads on some other boards, like the erobertparker.com wine board I frequent. This one doesn't have much action. The real monster of an F1 board is over at somethingawful.com forums.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

f1fan said:


> Franka, the sport is still amazing. Every sport has its stumbles and hiccups (eg. free agency), but they move on and with the right leadership rebound. This year we have seen mechanical grip attempt to outplay aero grip for the first time in years. Unfortunately the FIA left too much to interpretation and we have the diffuser teams trouncing the competition. This too will change. Maybe not this year but definately in the near future. And consider this; the 10 cars in Q3 were faster than the fastest lap from '08 AND the field is being separated by less than 2 seconds and most of the time separated by less than 1.5 seconds. It may not be the sport we fell in love with and with most certainty it will never be the same again, but it is what we have and there is still much to be cheering for and I will do so until I am 6ft under.
> 
> P.S. I am still on the edge of my seat when they race in the rain. I replay/slow motion the first turn about 20 times. And I will go when the race comes back to the US and Canada.


In the same way that your children get older and you can never go back to what they were 15 years ago is the same way that F1 is. Its all about today, what it is now.( the time is now)


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - May 19th, 10:48 GMT
Fight for F1 rules moves to courtroom
The fight over future Formula 1 regulations moves to the Paris courtroom this afternoon when Ferrari's bid to prevent a voluntary budget cap being introduced in 2010 is scheduled to be heard by French legal authorities.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - May 20th, 13:03 GMT
FIA weclomes verdict, criticises Ferrari
The FIA has welcomed today's verdict to block Ferrari's attempt to lodge an injunction against plans for a voluntary budget cap in Formula 1 next season, and has accused Ferrari of placing its own interests above those of the sport as a whole. 


F1 News - May 20th, 12:30 GMT
Ferrari slams quality of new teams
Ferrari has blasted the quality of entries being lined up to join Formula 1 next year - even going so far as saying the sport would perhaps be better off rebranded as 'Formula GP3'.


F1 News - May 20th, 12:11 GMT
Ferrari loses legal bid against FIA
Ferrari has lost its legal bid to lodge an injunction against the FIA's plans for a voluntary budget cap in Formula 1.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

That's not good news IMO. I'd love to see more cars on the grid but I'm against two-tier series. Teams need to find another solution that hard headed Mosley can live with.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Red Bull cars will have a DD diffuser for Monaco. It may not give a lot of improvement at the street circuit but Turkey may have all Red Bull front row. For Monaco I predict Button and Vettel on front row on the grid.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - May 20th, 15:54 GMT
Ferrari evaluating further legal action
Ferrari is evaluating whether to press on with legal action after a French court rejected its bid for an injunction to halt the governing body's plans for the 2010 rules. 


F1 News - May 20th, 15:43 GMT
Q & A with Kimi Raikkonen
Q. We've seen the car is much quicker now, so what can we expect in Monaco? 


F1 News - May 20th, 15:37 GMT
Raikkonen pledges future to Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen has pledged his future to Ferrari, regardless of whether or not the manufacturer enters Formula 1 next season. 

:dunno:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> F1 News - May 20th, 15:54 GMT
> 
> F1 News - May 20th, 15:37 GMT
> Raikkonen pledges future to Ferrari
> ...


I thought he was leaving Ferrari after this season. There were some speculations in Finnish press that he will be replaced by Alonso (need Patrick to confirm that). Kimi lacks motivation, that's for sure.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


> I thought he was leaving Ferrari after this season. There were some speculations in Finnish press that he will be replaced by Alonso (need Patrick to confirm that). Kimi lacks motivation, that's for sure.


That was circulating around over the winter. Maybe he made that statement to stay on the good side of Ferrari thru a poor economy and a shrinking sport


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Sayeth David Hobbs, "Kablamo!!!"

Sayest RK and Mario T, "Sh!t!!!"

What a dismal season this is.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - May 22nd, 14:59 GMT
Di Montezemolo: F1 teams are united
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has said teams will present a united front in their showdown talks with FIA president Max Mosley later today to discuss the future of Formula 1. 


I've heard talk like this before. Do it now or wait till Bernie dies, seriously.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

You seem to imply that Bernie is the problem. Why do you say that?


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

Patrick said:


> Won't happen.


Agreed, though I continue to hope for a return to Indy since it's less than 2 hours from my home.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

franka said:


> F1 Grapevine - Jun 15th, 11:46 GMT
> F1 launches iPhone application
> Formula 1 fans now have the opportunity to get a live birds-eye view of grand prix action thanks to a new official iPod application that has just been released.


If it's the app I found in the iTunes Store, it looks like it's US$7.99 for a race or US$32.99 for the rest of the season. I'm getting a new iPhone on Friday, so I might have to try it out for the British GP.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Jun 17th, 10:49 GMT
Mansell: Button is 'best in the business'
Former Formula 1 world champion Nigel Mansell has hailed Jenson Button as the 'best in the business' on the eve of this weekend's final British Grand Prix at Silverstone.


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

Hmm, I still think I agree with what Bruce said in post 368 -- the car is the biggest factor. Although the Speed commentators do say he's smooth on the tires, but that's easier to do when you're starting from pole and not having to try to pass anybody.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

News - Jun 18th, 14:25 GMT
Silverstone fears for British GP future

Silverstone has expressed its concern about the fate of next year's British Grand Prix - after claiming that it cannot see Donington Park getting its finances in shape to host the race. 


Tell me please, how many times have we heard this over the last 10 years? They are doomed and then at the last min they get it for one more year. Next year Bernie swears they are done, even takes them off the schedule for the next year. Then at the last second, after Bernie has sucked all of England dry, he allows one last race. Then after the season Bernie is adding new revenues at new places and threatens to dump .. blah blah blah.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

News - Jun 18th, 16:14 GMT
FOTA to meet to discuss FIA response

Team principals are to hold a meeting at Renault's headquarters in Enstone on Thursday night to discuss their response to the FIA's offer of a deal to end the stand-off over entries to the 2010 championship.


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

*Enough is enough*

Teams to launch breakaway series

The Formula One Teams' Association announced on Thursday night that it is setting up a breakaway championship.

Following a four hour meeting at Renault's Enstone factory, the eight members of FOTA said it had grown frustrated with the FIA's stance against it and that it had no option but to create its own championship.

"The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship," said a statement.

"These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.

"The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series."

:thumbup:


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

e46Christian said:


> Teams to launch breakaway series
> 
> The Formula One Teams' Association announced on Thursday night that it is setting up a breakaway championship.
> 
> ...


:beerchug:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Congrats to FOTA. How long can FOTA stick together? That is the key. If FOTA can hang together the FIA will have to accept whatever FOTA wants. The FIA has little they can do.

I doubt that the FIA has anyway to stop this and remain in power at the same time. Its up to FOTA to break away now. FOTA holds the power. :thumbup:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

It's now or never IMO. Breakaway series solves 2 biggest problems with F1 today - Max and Bernie.

I still doubt it will happen, though.


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

It's 1995 all over again. :tsk:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


> I still doubt it will happen, though.


I too have doubt it will happen, though I would like to see it happen. It would be the best thing for the series and for the fans. I can get rev'd up about it (new F1 series, F1.1 ?)

The Max and Bernie show is way past its best days. Its time for new blood. :thumbup:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> I too have doubt it will happen, though I would like to see it happen. It would be the best thing for the series and for the fans. I can get rev'd up about it (new F1 series, F1.1 ?)
> 
> The Max and Bernie show is way past its best days. Its time for new blood. :thumbup:


I'm behind FOTA 100%. 
The money distribution is a super scam and thanks to Bernie F1 is racing in front of empty stands on boring tracks nobody cares about and we're losing Silverstone! 
Thanks to that little pervert Max we have constant rule changes, no transparent governance and stewards influencing race results. I think FIA would benefit from some drastic changes, some heads must roll.


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

Has FOTA given any clues as to what a new structure may look like? E.g., what checks and balances will be in place to ensure teams with more $ won't have undue influence on rules, regs, imposition of infractions, etc.? I wonder how soon they could pull this off?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Next year. Next season. 

They are not going to stop in the middle of this year, there are too many contracts with all sorts of companies and individuals currently.

The FOTA thing is just a way to overcome the FIA. Believe me, FOTA is not planning next years races, etc.


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

Seems like to even pull it off by next year would require an amazing amount of effort.


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## [email protected] (Sep 5, 2006)

I don't know if I like it or don't like it. On one hand I like having all the 'back markers' in the series and was super excited for 3 new teams to get into it. Now those 3 teams are potentially in a series where they will all be raped by Williams.

Don't know. Wish the other 5 teams in FIA F1 would say screw you, your series sucks we are leaving.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1 News - Jun 19th, 17:05 GMT
Mosley believes split unlikely to happen
FIA president Max Mosley has dismissed the threat of a breakaway championship as 'posturing' by teams, and is confident a compromise settlement will be reached in time for the first race of 2010. 

F1 News - Jun 19th, 16:51 GMT
Mosley: Silverstone may keep British GP

FIA president Max Mosley says it is "highly probable" that the British Grand Prix will take place at the Silverstone circuit again next year.


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## HeadRoom (Jun 3, 2009)

franka said:


> F1 News - Jun 19th, 17:05 GMT
> Mosley believes split unlikely to happen
> FIA president Max Mosley has dismissed the threat of a breakaway championship as 'posturing' by teams, and is confident a compromise settlement will be reached in time for the first race of 2010.
> 
> ...


lol.... at this point I'm not going to believe anything until I see it.


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## Jakked (Feb 6, 2009)

franka said:


> FIA president Max Mosley says it is "highly probable" that the British Grand Prix will take place at the Silverstone circuit again next year.


I thought the 10-year Donington deal was already signed? 

I don't see how they can do it... though I hope they will :banana:


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

VIZSLA said:


> Particularly when the race in question is in Valencia and your driver is Fernando Alonso.


Oh yea, I didn't even think of that, excellent point!


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

JagConvert said:


> Oh yea, I didn't even think of that, excellent point!


If the dismal ticket sales hadn't been recouped with Schumi's return the ban would have had a better chance of being lifted


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Back to the spring. The springs on these vehicles are buried inside the body. To get a spring loose on one end of the suspension and to slide off would have to be quite a heavy impact.

A spring does not just pop off its suspension.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

franka said:


> Back to the spring. The springs on these vehicles are buried inside the body. To get a spring loose on one end of the suspension and to slide off would have to be quite a heavy impact.
> 
> A spring does not just pop off its suspension.


The way they described it on the TV was that the rear suspension has three springs... One on each wheel, that holds the car up, and one on a unit in the center, which counteracts the downforce generated by the rear wing, so the car isn't driven into the ground by the downforce... This latter spring only comes into play at high speed... it was this center spring that fell off the car... :dunno:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks. I'm surprised that it is not covered in the news more openly. I know third springs and how they are set up so it is still amazing that that has not been written up anywhere.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

franka said:


> Thanks. I'm surprised that it is not covered in the news more openly. I know third springs and how they are set up so it is still amazing that that has not been written up anywhere.


It was covered when it happened. Now that its resolved there isn't anything to cover.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

VIZSLA said:


> It was covered when it happened. Now that its resolved there isn't anything to cover.


The details of how the spring came loose was never covered when it happened.

Please point out one news article that explained how the spring got loose.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

The last thing I saw on that was Ross Brawn saying they wanted the spring back from the FIA so they could analyze what happened. I don't know if the FIA ever returned it.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

So as I predicted, Schumi will not drive.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This F1 thread has died. It used to be a lively forum. 

I have lost interest due to Bernie and Max and how they have changed the sport. They are driving F1 into the ground.


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

franka said:


> This F1 thread has died. It used to be a lively forum.
> 
> I have lost interest due to Bernie and Max and how they have changed the sport. They are driving F1 into the ground.


This is very sad indeed. The long break between races doesn't help either . . .


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> So as I predicted, Schumi will not drive.


:rofl:

I thought of you as soon as I read that he cannot come back due to his neck. :bigpimp:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> This F1 thread has died. It used to be a lively forum.


Perhaps I need to stir up some controversy. :angel:

Ok, here is something for you to chew on (rumor):

Neither Räikkönen or Kovalainen will be driving for their same teams next season, and perhaps Räikkönen won't drive in Formula One at all. :yikes:


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> Perhaps I need to stir up some controversy. :angel:
> 
> Ok, here is something for you to chew on (rumor):
> 
> Neither Räikkönen or Kovalainen will be driving for their same teams next season, and perhaps Räikkönen won't drive in Formula One at all. :yikes:


Well there was an unconfirmed report yesterday that Ferrari is looking to buy out Kimi's contract and put an Italian in seat#2 with Alonso as team leader.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> Well there was an unconfirmed report yesterday that Ferrari is looking to buy out Kimi's contract and put an Italian in seat#2 with Alonso as team leader.


That rumor is already over a year old! The new twist to it though is that Ferrari would buyout Räikkönen's contract at 50% of its value. :rofl:

He has a deal through 2010 that pays him 30 million Euros + bonuses a season; why in the hell would he (or Steve Robertson) allow the contract to be bought out at half of its value?

The Sun's reporters have been smoking crack. :tsk:


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> That rumor is already over a year old! The new twist to it though is that Ferrari would buyout Räikkönen's contract at 50% of its value. :rofl:
> 
> He has a deal through 2010 that pays him 30 million Euros + bonuses a season; why in the hell would he (or Steve Robertson) allow the contract to be bought out at half of its value?
> 
> The Sun's reporters have been smoking crack. :tsk:


What can I say, with the four week hiatus its been a slow news cycle and a lot of rumors, new and old, are being floated.
If Kimi stays and Alonso comes on board the team synergy shall be very interesting to say the least.


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

VIZSLA said:


> What can I say, with the four week hiatus its been a slow news cycle and a lot of rumors, new and old, are being floated.
> If Kimi stays and Alonso comes on board the team synergy shall be very interesting to say the least.


Interesting indeed, as neither Raikkonen nor Massa are fond of Alonso. That guy's ego dwarfs even Mosley's.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

e46Christian said:


> Interesting indeed, as neither Raikkonen nor Massa are fond of Alonso. That guy's ego dwarfs even Mosley's.


And his mouth is even bigger than his ego

Kimi has shown that he needs to be motivated on a repeated basis. Alonso might do that.
Alonso however does not play well with others. Ask Lewis


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This is the last half of a story about what happened to the BMW team.

Seeds of its downfall


Robert Kubica, Nick Heidfeld, and Dr Mario Theissen celebrate BMW's first win as a constructor with a 1-2 finish in the 2008 Canadian Grand Prix © LAT 
Yet almost from that moment the project has been in competitive decline. There was another third place in the constructors' championship, but that was largely built upon the results achieved in the first half of the season, and Kubica's half-way lead had dwindled to only fourth place in the final table, 23 points behind. By the end of the year the BMW was, at best, only the fifth fastest car. Kubica was openly critical of the emphasis being switched to the 2009 project. 

Who knows what might have unfolded had resources been devoted more aggressively into the 2008 car's development? Might BMW have delivered a world championship? But the focus on 2009 was understandable. Coming up was probably the biggest regulation change in the sport's history, with a fundamentally different set of aerodynamic requirements, the reintroduction of slick tyres and the introduction of KERS as a permitted technology.

Energy recovery was intricately associated with BMW. It was – and is – the biggest focus of the road car development project and its introduction to F1 at last allowed a parallel technology with which the F1 programme could be justified to the internal sceptics, much against the trend of the previous few years. BMW had in fact been heavily influential in the FIA's thinking in introducing the technology, former board member Prof Burkhard Goeschel lobbying the governing body heavily for it. 

But this was before the catastrophic economic downturn. By the middle of last year it was apparent that the huge development costs likely to be associated with the new system were not compatible with the urgent need to reduce costs now that income from car sales and external sponsorship was taking a dramatic nosedive. The team body FOTA suggested a voluntary and unilateral pact between them all not to introduce the technology which, under the regulations, was not compulsory. Every team agreed – with the exception of BMW. A KERS project was too important, it said, to its continued support from the board for F1 participation. The other members reluctantly accepted this reality and pressed on with their own expensive KERS programmes. Estimates put the cost of KERS development as high as £50 million per team. 

This was the seed of the downfall of BMW's F1 project. The F1.09 was conceived with KERS as its starting point, the company confident that it would lead the way with this technology, happy that a field of unrestrained technical competition was available after years of such avenues being progressively closed off. KERS would play an intrinsic part in keeping with its stated schedule of fighting for the championship in 2009 to form a powerful justification for F1 as an image booster at a time when the need to promote and differentiate the core product in the showrooms was more important than ever.

This was a fragile, high-stakes basis on which to remain in the sport. While the prime focus of the BMW design team, just like those at McLaren and Ferrari, was about the development of the KERS technology and its optimum packaging within the car, others looked elsewhere. It's probably not a coincidence that those preoccupied with KERS did not see the loopholes within the new aero regulations, whether that be the double diffuser or the enhanced advantages of a pullrod rear suspension. This was at a time too, in the early days of a new technical era, when the advantages of any new interpretation will be at their maximum. With hindsight there was hugely more lap time available from these interpretations than from KERS. Furthermore, the installation of KERS compromised the basic aero potential of the cars – and gave fewer set-up choices in optimising the cars for the tyres at any given circuit. 


BMW Sauber teammates Nick Heidfeld and Robert Kubica en route to 10th and 14th place finishes in the 2009 German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring © LAT 
All the pieces were thus in place for a horrible BMW embarrassment. The car was uncompetitive, though Kubica disguised this at the first race by a brilliant qualifying effort and an unusual tyre sequence in the race, only to crash out attempting to take second from Vettel's Red Bull. But that Melbourne performance came at a track not particularly demanding of a car's aerodynamics and, what's more, Kubica was not using KERS. His weight disadvantage over the smaller Heidfeld meant he could not get the desired weight distribution with KERS fitted. For the first three races, only Heidfeld was using the technology. It was fitted to both cars in Bahrain where the track's layout made it more valuable, but since that time it has not been seen again. 

The embarrassment is even more acute given how poorly the car has performed. Far from contending for the championship, as so publicly stated, BMW has frequently struggled to get out of Q1 and to date has scored just eight points, 102 behind the KERS-less Brawn. That logical progression of achievement has been catastrophically broken, something that can easily happen in motor racing. Heaping yet more embarrassment upon the team, McLaren-Mercedes and Ferrari have continued with their KERS programmes and just last week a KERS-equipped car took victory, a one-two no less, for the first time.

So the team that committed the others and itself to the huge extra expense of KERS at the most inappropriate time had abandoned it early while others made it work. It was a nightmare situation for BMW, the absolute worst-case scenario. It could have been disguised perhaps if the cars had been successful regardless, but conceived as they were that was never going to happen. The cost has had a serious impact on the car's development too.

Uniquely among all the teams, no new parts were developed from the first race until an update package in Spain. The gap to the front has widened considerably.

Other manufacturer teams might have been able to live with this, but BMW, as a performance icon, could not. For a brand as aggressively sporting as BMW, being beaten badly by Ferrari or Mercedes is bad enough, but getting nowhere near such mundane mass-market brands as Toyota and Renault is disastrous – and ultimately not sustainable. 

At a time of financial meltdown, is it any wonder the board looked at the embarrassment of its F1 programme and identified an easy nine-figure saving each year? BMW was the victim of a confluence of factors: a progressively technically strangled F1, the inopportune advent of an expensive technology with an economic downturn, its brand's sensitivity to lack of performance and its own very specific and confident timetable for success, something that always made its prospects somewhat brittle. 

It's a sign of the times.


----------



## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

I think thenesss reports indicate the largest ego in F1 belongs to..........Nelson Piquet Jr!


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> They're supposed to be friends as well as partners but when it comes to money Bernie has but one friend


I am going to guess that it is not Ecclestone's ex-wife...


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> I am going to guess that it is not Ecclestone's ex-wife...


Er..no.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

It sounds like we will find out today WHO will drive the other SF car. Kubica or Fisichella?

An interesting side note to this is that Force India still owes Ferrari a lot of money for engines and drivetrains from the 2008 season...


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Lotus back to Formula 1?!*

Malaysia is buying BMW Sauber F1? 

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21785.html

I don't believe everything that this web site writes, but this tidbit is interesting.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> It sounds like we will find out today WHO will drive the other SF car. Kubica or Fisichella?
> 
> An interesting side note to this is that Force India still owes Ferrari a lot of money for engines and drivetrains from the 2008 season...


What makes you say today will be the day?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> What makes you say today will be the day?


It was reported in the sports news here today. Have a look. 

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/09/945556


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> It was reported in the sports news here today. Have a look.
> 
> http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2009/09/945556


In that I don't read Finnish(?) I'll take your word

Latest rumor is that BMW might release Kubica to Ferrari for a promise of engines in 2010.
Now that would make the team more salable.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

VIZSLA said:


> In that I don't read Finnish(?) I'll take your word
> 
> Latest rumor is that BMW might release Kubica to Ferrari for a promise of engines in 2010.
> Now that would make the team more salable.


Doesn't look that way:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21786.html


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Smart move by Mallay! :rofl:

Now the interesting question will be: who will drive the other Force India car? Which by all accounts, should be quite competitive at Monza.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> Smart move by Mallay! :rofl:
> 
> Now the interesting question will be: who will drive the other Force India car? Which by all accounts, should be quite competitive at Monza.


It would mean readjusting a few things on my calender but for the right offer I might be available


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> It would mean readjusting a few things on my calender but for the right offer I might be available


:rofl:

I will go out on a limb here and suggest that you would repeatedly stall it until the clutch was destroyed. :bigpimp:


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

It's a dream come true for Fisi, good for him.

I'd rather see Kubica at Ferrari, just to see how good Kimi really is. 

I love silly season, btw...


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I will go out on a limb here and suggest that you would repeatedly stall it until the clutch was destroyed. :bigpimp:


Even in that unlikelyhood I'd still lap Badoer 
Fisi to Ferrari is a great move.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Smart move by Mallay! :rofl:
> 
> Now the interesting question will be: who will drive the other Force India car? Which by all accounts, should be quite competitive at Monza.


I'ts quite easy, it's gonna be Liuzzi. It's Monza after all and he is an official test driver for FI.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> It's a dream come true for Fisi, good for him.
> 
> I'd rather see Kubica at Ferrari, just to see how good Kimi really is.
> 
> I love silly season, btw...


But but but... Räikkönen was already teammates with Heidfeld, and according to Heidfeld himself, he has _always_ been faster than all of his teammates. 

:rofl:

If he shaved off that silly beard, someone might actually believe that.

And yes, this is one whacky season! :bigpimp:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> Even in that unlikelyhood I'd still lap Badoer


:rofl:

Badoer's last place qualifying time at Valencia would have have only been good enough for P3... in the GP2 qualifying session! 

Not good.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> I'ts quite easy, it's gonna be Liuzzi. It's Monza after all and he is an official test driver for FI.


Good point. uch:

Well, in that case, no worries about Force India scoring any points at Monza...:rofl:


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> Good point. uch:
> 
> Well, in that case, no worries about Force India scoring any points at Monza...:rofl:


Ah ha, another diabolical trick by the Scuderia to undermine the opposition!


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> Ah ha, another diabolical trick by the Scuderia to undermine the opposition!


Which Scuderia?!

Scuderia Ferrari, or Scuderia Toro Rosso? :rofl:


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Which Scuderia?!
> 
> Scuderia Ferrari, or Scuderia Toro Rosso? :rofl:


Is there really more than one?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

BMW finds buyer for Formula 1 team 

By Pablo Elizalde Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 11:08 GMT 


BMW has announced that the Qadbak Investments company has agreed to purchase the Formula 1 team based in Hinwil.

The German company had revealed earlier this year that it will quit Formula 1 at the end of the season, and had been in talks with interested parties since then.

On Tuesday, BMW said it had signed the contract to sell the team to Qadbak, a Swiss-based foundation which represents the interests of certain Middle East and European-based families.

"A strong investor has therefore been found for the Hinwil-based team," BMW said in a statement. 

"Qadbak's interest in the team will be represented by Lionel Fischer, a Swiss national. BMW wishes Qadbak and the Sauber Team every success for the 2010 season and beyond."

The sale of the team coincides with the FIA having announced the 13th entry for the 2010 championship went to the Lotus outfit, with BMW as a possible 14th entry in case a current team fails to race next year.

The FIA also said it would talk to the teams about the possibility of increasing the grid size to 28 cars to allow the Hinwil squad to race next year.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Repost. :rofl:


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Patrick said:


> From what I have read on Finnish Formula 1 sites, the throttle position telemetry from Piquet Jr's car going into and through the corner where he crashed, on the lap that he crashed is damning evidence.
> 
> Of course, Briatore is going to claim that Piquet Jr suggested the crash idea and then carried it out on his own in order to secure a seat for 2009.
> 
> This is going to be ugly.


Any way you slice it, looks like Jr. is about as much of a stand-up guy as his blabbermouth father. Both of them are slime.


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> It is also interesting that The Turd has given both Piquet Jr and Symmonds (from Renault) protection after the proceedings, i.e., neither will face sanctions no matter how this turns out.
> 
> If it is true, Briatore is done. But I am not so sure that the FIA wants to kick out Renault at this time.
> 
> ...


Don't assume Symmonds will take the deal. FIA immunity does not extend to the legal system where far more serious charges may be brought.


----------



## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

VIZSLA said:


> Don't assume Symmonds will take the deal. FIA immunity does not extend to the legal system where far more serious charges may be brought.


Interesting point. Assuming a crime was committed, I suppose it would fall to Singapore's jurisdiction  Ouch! :spank:


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

JagConvert said:


> Interesting point. Assuming a crime was committed, I suppose it would fall to Singapore's jurisdiction  Ouch! :spank:


The charges could involve fixing a pari-mutual event and might be brought in another jurisdiction.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> The charges could involve fixing a pari-mutual event and might be brought in another jurisdiction.


Sounds like it would be France, home of the FIA.


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> Sounds like it would be France, home of the FIA.


Or wherever the bets were taken.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

VIZSLA said:


> Don't assume Symmonds will take the deal. FIA immunity does not extend to the legal system where far more serious charges may be brought.


Renault have not said if he will take the deal.

Piquet Jr probably doesn't have any better options. That guy's racing career (if he ever actually one outside of his name) is toast.


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> Renault have not said if he will take the deal.
> 
> Piquet Jr probably doesn't have any better options. That guy's racing career (if he ever actually one outside of his name) is toast.


PK pere et fils are idiots who did not think before acting.


----------



## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

VIZSLA said:


> The charges could involve fixing a pari-mutual event and might be brought in another jurisdiction.


Hmm, perhaps where FIA is chartered? That would make more sense. The contract between the event-hosting governments and the FIA may have a venue/choice of laws provision, but that would not be binding as to criminal matters -- and none of that would necessarily divest Singapore of its criminal jurisdiction, though it's doubtful they would be too interested in exercising it. At any rate, it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes down . . .


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

JagConvert said:


> Hmm, perhaps where FIA is chartered? That would make more sense. The contract between the event-hosting governments and the FIA may have a venue/choice of laws provision, but that would not be binding as to criminal matters -- and none of that would necessarily divest Singapore of its criminal jurisdiction, though it's doubtful they would be too interested in exercising it. At any rate, it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes down . . .


It certainly will.
When it comes to the integrity of gambling the authorities tend to be very strict.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Heads will roll*

Oh boy. Reports in the Finnish media this morning are suggesting that Renault may make a decision about Briatore's future today or tomorrow. 

I have also been reading more of Piquet Jr's testimony to the FIA, and it sounds like once he knew what lap he was on, he purposely crashed... Even the telemetry shows an unusual amount of throttle going through and out of Turn 17.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

And yet more interesting news...

Mercedes-Benz will end its cooperation with McLaren after the 2011 season ends.

Instead, it plans to buy 75% of BrawnGP.

Apparently, the bosses in Stuttgart are not too happy with McLaren building the MP4-12C. Yesterday, Mercedes-Benz released its competitor to the McLaren, the Mercedes-Benz SLS.


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

New BMW team (whatever it'll be called ) will run Ferrari engines according to this morning's press.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Not good*

Briatore and Symonds have quit!

Renault admits to everything... Holy crap. :yikes:


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Patrick said:


> Briatore and Symonds have quit!
> 
> Renault admits to everything... Holy crap. :yikes:


Yup a deal's been cut before the hearing.
Anyone else see the irony that we lose Flav and gain a Virgin on the same day


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Obviously, Alonso knew what was going on too. Damn, he is constantly involved in all of the crap in modern Formula 1! :rofl:

He will get a DNF for Singapore, and who knows what else - maybe no points at all for the whole season. If that is the case, I doubt that the FIA will allow that to change the outcome of the world championship. Or?

Well, congrats to Rosberg for winning the 2008 Formula 1 SINGTEL SINGAPORES GRAND PRIX! :bigpimp:


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

If Renault is in fact the team where Kubica is heading next year then he's f*[email protected] :tsk:


----------



## griffmac (Sep 29, 2006)

It will be interesting to see the evidence / how they did it. There doesn't appear to be anything in the radio transcripts.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

griffmac said:


> It will be interesting to see the evidence / how they did it. There doesn't appear to be anything in the radio transcripts.


Both the telemetry and the radio transcripts are the evidence.


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

griffmac said:


> It will be interesting to see the evidence / how they did it. There doesn't appear to be anything in the radio transcripts.


I don't expect any more "evidence" to surface now that a settlement has been reached.
Its in no one's interest to air any more dirty laundry.
This assumes that the PKs can keep their mouth's shut. By no means a given.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

There is still more to come.

On 21 September, Renault will appear in Paris, with their lawyers in front of the FIA World Motorsports Council. After that hearing, we will find out what the punishment for Renault is.

Renault is officially no longer disputing the claim against the team, which is a way of saying, "ok, we did it." Most likely, they will be found guilty of the same rule violation that lead to McLaren being fined and losing all of their constructor points in 2008 (I think that it was Article 121).

Who knows what will happen to Alonso.


----------



## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

*Renault*

Wow! Well, I'm glad to see we were all spared a full-blown evidentiary trial/hearing.


----------



## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

F1Crazy said:


> If Renault is in fact the team where Kubica is heading next year then he's f*[email protected] :tsk:


I would think that Kubica and Heidfeld will stay with the Sauber team, now that there's a buyer and that the FIA has pretty much agreed to expanding the grid to 14 teams?

-MrB


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

mrbelk said:


> I would think that Kubica and Heidfeld will stay with the Sauber team, now that there's a buyer and that the FIA has pretty much agreed to expanding the grid to 14 teams?
> 
> -MrB


Perhaps the FIA won't need to expand the grid... :eeps:


----------



## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Perhaps the FIA won't need to expand the grid... :eeps:


Good point. Renault has reportedly been looking for an excuse to leave the championship...

-MrB


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Conspiracy, conspiracy.
> 
> I will bet that Räikkönen was not given the black/orange flag because he drives a Ferrari. :rofl:
> 
> ...


I'll bet you're right.

I know Robert's full name. For convenience, I have used four letter abbreviations for all the drivers, mostly coined last year.

BTW, have you recalculated the team/driver points based on Renault's potential loss of all points for the season. Should be interesting.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> BTW, have you recalculated the team/driver points based on Renault's potential loss of all points for the season. Should be interesting.


No. At this point, I do not believe that the FIA will re-write the championship from last year.

That said, I am sure that someone will do it, assuming that Alonso loses all of his points for 2008.


----------



## griffmac (Sep 29, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Both the telemetry and the radio transcripts are the evidence.


I read the transcripts very quickly. I didn't see anything there at all.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

griffmac said:


> I read the transcripts very quickly. I didn't see anything there at all.


It starts with Piquet Jr repeatedly and uncharacteristically asking his race engineer what lap he was on over the radio. The accident was scheduled to happen two laps after Alonso went to the pits - some 5 laps earlier than would have been needed with his fuel load at the start.

What is worse is the throttle position telemetry in turn 17 where Piquet Jr's crash occurred.

It will all come out with the wash.

And Alonso is in deep sh!t again. Unlike the McLaren spy case (when he lied his ass off until doing an about face), the FIA will not be granting him immunity this time.


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Patrick said:


> And Alonso is in deep sh!t again. Unlike the McLaren spy case (when he lied his ass off until doing an about face), the FIA will not be granting him immunity this time.


I hope that's the case. I can't stand that little two-faced pr1ck.

I wonder if Ferrari is already regretting their offer. :dunno:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

More turmoil in F1, not good, not good.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> More turmoil in F1, not good, not good.


It follows the leader. No surprise here.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Multiple F1 news outlets are all saying that this race fixing is the worst event ever to hit F1

More than the Stepney incident with McLaren and Ferrari and get this....even worse than Mikey parking his Ferrari across the track at Monaco. Gasp... gasp...


----------



## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

franka said:


> Multiple F1 news outlets are all saying that this race fixing is the worst event ever to hit F1
> 
> More than the Stepney incident with McLaren and Ferrari and get this....even worse than Mikey parking his car on track at Monaco. Gasp... gasp...


It's about as bad as it can get -- I can't imagine much worse, except maybe Briatore also betting on that race in Pete Rose fashion :yikes:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Heidfeld and Kubica only have one engine (each) remaining for the last four races of the season. 

Both RBR cars are in the same situation, but at least Vettel has three "used" engines. I am not sure about Webber.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Heidfeld and Kubica only have one engine (each) remaining for the last four races of the season.
> 
> Both RBR cars are in the same situation, but at least Vettel has three "used" engines. I am not sure about Webber.


That shouold get them about as far as they need to go, anyway.:bigpimp:


----------



## rosskey711 (Jun 2, 2009)

28 cars that's much more like it!! 20 is just too few... More cars = more action, more crashes, more racing

Can you imagine the first corner with 28 cars!! amazing!


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

rosskey711 said:


> 28 cars that's much more like it!! 20 is just too few... More cars = more action, more crashes, more racing
> 
> Can you imagine the first corner with 28 cars!! amazing!


Yeah crashes. That's what F1 is all about.
20 or 28 either way there will be no more than six in the hunt for the championship.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

JagConvert said:


> I'm not sure, but I've had this particular dictionary on my shelf for about 15 years. It was published in 1988. I've never seen anybody disdain a word so much before. You know that might make some people want to work into into sentences whenever possible; not me of course, I'm just saying. . .
> Sorry all for keeping the hijack alive . . . I suppose we should get back on topic now. . .


I'll be certain to proactively pursue that goal.:bigpimp:

.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> I'll be certain to proactively pursue that goal..


Even coming from a man of great accomplishments and writings like you, it still sounds stupid.


----------



## Herbie (Jan 31, 2006)

franka said:


> The stupid word, how new or old is the word? I suspect it is quite new, maybe a few years old. :dunno:


At the risk of feeding the troll:

The Etymology of "proactive"
From the online etymological dictionary:


> 1971, of persons or policies, coined from pro- + active on model of react/reactive. Used from 1933 in a psychological sense.


So in other words, the word is older than you.


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Sorry to derail the derailment but Yahoo is reporting that Dr. T. has confirmed that if they secure a place on the grid the team formally known as BMW will be running Ferrari engines.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I am still so pissed about the FIA world motor sports council's ruling on Monday that I will just STFU about it. :tsk:

*Then, I will sadly announce that Räikkönen will not be driving for Ferrari next season.* 

Stay tuned...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Herbie said:


> At the risk of feeding the troll:
> 
> The Etymology of "proactive"
> From the online etymological dictionary:QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Depression is setting in*

I suspect that on Tuesday, Ferrari will announce that Alonso is Massa's teammate for 2010.

Then there are several possible scenarios for Räikkönen. None of them any good IMHO.

1. He will get paid his 38 million Euro salary and NOT drive in 2010

2. He will drive for McLaren in 2010 and Ferrari will pay his salary

3. He will drive for BrawnGP and Ferrari will pay his salary

4. Massa won't be able to drive in 2010, and Räikkönen will be teammates with Alonso

I am really bummed out about this. 

Go ahead, make it worse...


----------



## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

If I were a bettin' man I'd put $ on scenario #4.

I'm not understanding how 2 or 3 could occur if he is still under contract with Ferrari--isn't there a "no compete" clause that would prevent him from driving for a competitor?



Patrick said:


> I suspect that on Tuesday, Ferrari will announce that Alonso is Massa's teammate for 2010.
> 
> Then there are several possible scenarios for Räikkönen. None of them any good IMHO.
> 
> ...


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

JagConvert said:


> If I were a bettin' man I'd put $ on scenario #4.
> 
> I'm not understanding how 2 or 3 could occur if he is still under contract with Ferrari--isn't there a "no compete" clause that would prevent him from driving for a competitor?


Just some things that have been "floated" in the media here. No clue how that would work either. In order to get Alonso, Ferrari has to kick Räikkönen out. Perhaps they are willing to pay whatever it takes to do that.

Earlier this week, Keke Rosberg said that "Alonso will drive for Ferrari in 2010" and if he says that, it is a done deal.

Anyway, Fisichella has also been confirmed for Ferrari in 2010, so if Massa cannot drive, who knows.

It sounds like they want to get rid of Räikkönen, even if it costs them an insane amount of money.


----------



## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

Interesting. I would think a a Hamilton - Kimi combo at McLaren would be a strong team and perhaps a good fit. I'm sure that prospect depresses you though. It'll be interesting to see where everybody lands for next year. I hope Massa makes a complete recovery.



Patrick said:


> Just some things that have been "floated" in the media here. No clue how that would work either. In order to get Alonso, Ferrari has to kick Räikkönen out. Perhaps they are willing to pay whatever it takes to do that.
> 
> Earlier this week, Keke Rosberg said that "Alonso will drive for Ferrari in 2010" and if he says that, it is a done deal.
> 
> ...


----------



## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

News flash from the grassy knoll: The mysterious Swiss group that has bought BMW's F1 team is a front for Ferrari and will be running with Ferrari power and will be driven by Kimi.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

How Kimi gets paid w/o driving? Contract, a good tight contract.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

So, Santander Bank (Spain) will pay McLaren 25 million Euros next year if they give Räikkönen a seat. Thus, Alonso will drive Ferrari as Massa's teammate. :banghead:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Qualifying in one hour from now. We will hear some of politics and seat changes. :thumbup:


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Patrick said:


> So, Santander Bank (Spain) will pay McLaren 25 million Euros next year if they give Räikkönen a seat. Thus, Alonso will drive Ferrari as Massa's teammate. :banghead:


So....does that mean you'll start cheering for the Silver Arrows now?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

e46Christian said:


> So....does that mean you'll start cheering for the Silver Arrows now?


Which Daimler team? BrawnGP? Force India? McLaren?

No, it means that I will pack all of my Ferrari gear into several large boxes and send them to Luca di Montezemolo in Maranello, with a note telling him to please go and f0ck himself. 

It seems that the reason for all of this is that Räikkönen has not made himself be part of the Ferrari family. He doesn't show enough emotion, he is still the robot that Ron Dennis turned him into. He doesn't speak Italian, he isn't the same as Spoonface, etc.

Oh well.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Wake me up when it is over... :yawn:

I hope that in light of Hamilton's KERS failure, Rosberg will win the Singapore Grand Prix again.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

It will be announced on Thursday: Alonso to Ferrari and Räikkönen to McLaren, with Marlboro and Santander paying Räikkönen's entire 36 million Euro salary for 2010.

I can't believe this is happening... 

Later, Renault will confirm that Kubica will take Alonso's seat.

I guess that since Nakajima will not drive for Williams next year, Kovalainen will drive for Williams, regardless of whether Rosberg moves to BrawnGP or not.

There is even speculation that Massa may drive already in Brazil.


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## JagConvert (May 18, 2009)

Patrick said:


> It will be announced on Thursday: Alonso to Ferrari and Räikkönen to McLaren, with Marlboro and Santander paying Räikkönen's entire 36 million Euro salary for 2010.
> 
> I can't believe this is happening...
> 
> ...


Sorry Patrick, I can sense your anguish. Will you be keeping all your SF memorabilia or peddling it on ebay?

*(Warning--don't read below if you have not yet watched the Singapore GP). . .*
Question for you all: If you're a team considering signing Rosberg, does his Singapore performance encourage or discourage you? Do you focus on the totality of his race or his blunder and resultant no-points finish?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I've lost interest in the races, not much action anymore. Its like they are just going thru the motions, like a boring movie. Scandals have substituded for on track action.

The series will never match the interest in the 'old days'. Too many rules, too much restriction. Soon it will a spec series and the advertisers and sponsors will dwindle.

It really hit me yesterday during the race when I walked off to do something else.


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