# N63TU engine problems- please help



## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

2013 650i GC 48k miles - just out of warranty by in service date - rod bearing broke small pieces in oil pan - $31K to replace engine per BMW - they are only offering $6.5 in assistance - please help with suggestions !!!


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## marcozandrini (Feb 13, 2014)

What’s the maintenance history on the car? Is the history documented? What shop did the maintenance? Gave you been a “loyal” bmw customer? Is this your first bmw? I ask because bmw NA will take these factors into consideration when considering “good will.” Be nice, but firm. Good luck.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

It's my first BMW, I've only owned it for 6K miles ... I was told by BMW rep it was over it's miles when service work was performed @ BMW dealer by previous owner... this was the deciding reason for not assisting me... I've been very kind-- maybe not so firm only because I really do believe that they would do the right thing... it would make me a BMW customer for life or a very disappointed customer forever 


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Marco-F06 said:


> It's my first BMW, I've only owned it for 6K miles ... I was told by BMW rep it was over it's miles when service work was performed @ BMW dealer by previous owner... this was the deciding reason for not assisting me... I've been very kind-- maybe not so firm only because I really do believe that they would do the right thing... it would make me a BMW customer for life or a very disappointed customer forever


So not CPO and no PPI? You took it dry, and now not even a kiss goodby.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Doug Huffman said:


> So not CPO and no PPI? You took it dry, and now not even a kiss goodby.


It was fresh from service at the BMW dealership when purchased

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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

But no PPI and no CPO


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## wcr3d (Jul 17, 2012)

No CPO means no extended warranty. No PPI means you didn't have a mechanic check it out before your purchase. Over miles means the previous owner didn't take very good care of it. It boils down to, you're screwed and at their mercy. If you do plan on fixing it then about all you can do is take what you can get and call it a bonus. They are not actually liable for anything. I would speak to them and be firm about how it is not long out of warranty time wise and still under mileage. Good luck


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Thank you for your time and advice... I'm hoping for the best 


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

By the way to all in this thread and anyone in the future, I have some really good things in the works on my N63TU- it's now out of the BMW dealership's hands and in the hands of ,in my opinion, the best N63/N63TU/S63TU engine rebuilder in North America - full contact info - specs - & process pics to follow - so far the best customer service I have ever experienced - standby 


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

This is a textbook reason why CPO's offered on used cars are not worth a whole lot; because most used cars have no connection with the dealer who is selling them. Dealers go to auctions of used cars, select what looks like it will sell and give them the biggest margins. From my experience at San Jose British Motors, I seriously doubt they even walk around the entire car before bidding.

My anecdote: Before buying a new '16 550i, we stopped in at the British Motors dealership, because they were advertising a 1 year old 550i, w/11K miles, that on first appearance had a simple dimple in the front plastic bumper cover ($800 fix). I knew that. They knew that. And they still were offering the car for nearly $10K under used retail. Why? No one seemed to be biting. (Well, that is because most of the previous lookers were also knowledgeable BMW owners.). 
Seeing the blemish, I walked up to the car, first thing, and ran my fingers under the lip of the front plastic facade, to see how badly the previous owner had abused curbs. It was a fairly rough edge (Here's the clue.), but straight enough, directly under the curvature of the front end. I almost bought the car, but a second voice inside said to pass. Now, I have a new, unblemished 550i. There is no edge under the curvature of the front facade! The actual plastic part has a large area of flat plastic, that goes all the way back to the suspension frame, where it is fastened with screws to keep it secure. 
That means, not only had the previous owner nudged the front of his car, he made a habit of clobbering curbs, to the point, he used a box cutter to cut all the way around the front facade, to remove the broken up plastic support. Neither I, nor that dealer with the implication that this was a trade in, knew of the real damage to that car.

I suspect Marco-F06's dealer saw, what looked like the bargain of the century, at the auction, and just grabbed it, w/o a second look.

So, what was Marco-F06 to do? A prebuyer's inspection might have revealed low oil pressure and metal in the pan. I've never received that much scrutiny when I used PPI's in the past. But, if that bearing was just on the edge of failing, there would have been only one possible indication if at all; a subtle tapping sound coming from deep within the engine. Well, good luck even finding the block on a 650, under all that plumbing, let alone holding a stiff rod against the block and the inspector's ear.
But, if there is a BMW engine builder/mechanic in the neighborhood, the crank journal can be reground and the rod replaced, for a whole lot cheaper than $(31 - 6)K. This requires special machining and expertise. Many of those kind of businesses have disappeared in the last 20 years.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Glaird I definitely regret not having a PPI performed, yet I can only guess its bill of health would only be as good as the technician's skills and knowledge of that engine and platform and his or hers passion at doing a good job... it's nice to know there still are people who have expertise- passion - dedication as well as fellowship racing through their veins... the people that want to and know how to and CAN fix/repair something not just put a new one it it's place, with that said... though my vehicle had to be shipped many states away...I strongly believe that my vehicle is now in the presence of those same type of people !


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)

marcozandrini said:


> What's the maintenance history on the car? Is the history documented? What shop did the maintenance?....





Marco-F06 said:


> It's my first BMW, I've only owned it for 6K miles ... I was told by BMW rep it was over it's miles when service work was performed @ BMW dealer by previous owner... this was the deciding reason for not assisting me... I've been very kind-- maybe not so firm only because I really do believe that they would do the right thing... it would make me a BMW customer for life or a very disappointed customer forever.


But do you know what the previous owner's maintenance and repair history was? What were the oil change intervals, was the car repaired under warranty and if so, what was repaired?


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

They wouldn't give me the exact # of miles the previous owner went over on oil change intervals but they did tell me it happened twice...they also stated all warranty work and TSBs were performed which included new injectors and batteries also recommended service work which included non engine related items like tires, wiper blades, cabin air filters, which tells me previous owner gave some care to the vehicle, all in 42k miles... I'd sure love to know the full story like why were the injectors changed? - was it violently shaking and misfiring? - what about the batteries? We're they found drained due to fans running longer because of excessive heat? Did they completely drain and leave the engine to fend for itself to cool down?- all these questions can form a better conclusion on maybe why that my N63TU failed - how much damage can these issues have caused? but I only know what they will tell me 


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## Oaker55 (Mar 7, 2014)

I also had a ‘13 650GC and while a lot of people think that engine is an improvement over the previous iteration, it was the first year of the engine and it still had a lot of issues. As far as injectors go, it was fairly common to change injectors when the infamous “Drivetrain Malfunction” error popped up. Mine was on it’s third set when BMW finally bought the car back after six months. I can’t tell you how many sets of plugs it went through nor how many oil changes because of fear that gas made it’s way into the oil during one of the many drivetrain malfunctions episodes. Not to mention the vibrations the engine endured when the messaged popped up on the screen when driving down the interstate at 75+mph. That can’t be good for the engine. And then after they delivered my new 650GC, out on the lot it went as a CPO. Good luck!


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I think the oil change thing is what they have used to write me off though in the beginning they said they "commonly" see this in over-revving of the engine, which I took as (hey you did this) ... "but that's why there is a Rev- limiter or every car on your lot will blow its engine if you simply press and hold the pedal" was my response to the SA - so I guess after the service history was retrieved they found the out and warranty clearly states it - (Oil changes performed outside the
recommended maintenance intervals as indicated by the Condition Based Services may void coverage) so in a nutshell, they have my unshelled you know whats.. unless it is to be discovered that the failure was due to one of the warranty/TSB items, which would be extremely hard to prove 


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## Etherghost (Mar 16, 2017)

wcr3d said:


> No CPO means no extended warranty. No PPI means you didn't have a mechanic check it out before your purchase. Over miles means the previous owner didn't take very good care of it. It boils down to, you're screwed and at their mercy. If you do plan on fixing it then about all you can do is take what you can get and call it a bonus. They are not actually liable for anything. I would speak to them and be firm about how it is not long out of warranty time wise and still under mileage. Good luck


Rod bearings can't be checked without taking half the engine apart.

$31k is a little high for a new engine. Either way, proper inspection would reveal if it's possible to rebuild the engine. It would cost much less than $31k. Another option may be to shop around for a good used engine. Given the circumstance, the car is still young, thus finding a used engine may be a difficult task.

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## Oaker55 (Mar 7, 2014)

They sold you this car as having a warranty, is that correct? But since that time, the warranty inservice date lapsed, is that also correct? It sounds to me like they misrepresented the car when negotiating with you while purchasing the car. If the warranty was not going to be honored then technically, the car had no warranty. Was this car purchased at a BMW dealership? If so, they were fully aware of this warranty issue and should have disclosed as much. All I can say is I hope you got a hell of a deal on the car. 


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Difficult to say the least, they are sky high for a used engine and unless you can get the vin of the donor vehicle and research its history... who knows if the car was smashed and left running till it shut down due to lack of fluids or whatever- also most out there I've found have a warranty of only 90 days - some 5 years... but after a vin search they came from Houston and were flood write offs but still with a warranty, but after looking at those said warranties, they will only replace it with another used engine... so I really believe, if you wanna keep it... do it right and rebuild it but better 


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## Etherghost (Mar 16, 2017)

Marco-F06 said:


> Difficult to say the least, they are sky high for a used engine and unless you can get the vin of the donor vehicle and research its history... who knows if the car was smashed and left running till it shut down due to lack of fluids or whatever- also most out there I've found have a warranty of only 90 days - some 5 years... but after a vin search they came from Houston and were flood write offs but still with a warranty, but after looking at those said warranties, they will only replace it with another used engine... so I really believe, if you wanna keep it... do it right and rebuild it but better
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


"Rebuild it, but better" - There is your $1,000,000 solution. 

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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Oaker55 yes and yes but no on the BMW dealer- it was a high end lot with big $ cars - AMG - Audi S-line - //M cars - Porsche - you know the good stuff- I traced the purchase from a BMW dealer in Houston where it was for sale just 62 days prior to being purchased by the lot I purchased it from - I did get a good deal - but also felt I was within a few hundred of his cost... it took many days of negotiations - I have a good friend that works in the business and gave me Mannheim Auction #s on these cars, which is basically what they go for to dealers give or take a few bucks... I think if the dealer where I bought the car knew of its issues, he would have dumped it at his first chance... maybe the dealer knew who knows. 


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Etherghost - my thought exactly man !!!


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)

Marco-F06 said:


> They wouldn't give me the exact # of miles the previous owner went over on oil change intervals but they did tell me it happened twice...they also stated all warranty work and TSBs were performed which included new injectors and batteries also recommended service work which included non engine related items like tires, wiper blades, cabin air filters, which tells me previous owner gave some care to the vehicle, all in 42k miles... I'd sure love to know the full story like why were the injectors changed? - was it violently shaking and misfiring? - what about the batteries? We're they found drained due to fans running longer because of excessive heat? Did they completely drain and leave the engine to fend for itself to cool down?- all these questions can form a better conclusion on maybe why that my N63TU failed - how much damage can these issues have caused? but I only know what they will tell me


The oil change intervals could be a factor because they admitted it went over twice. I don't remember if BMW's recommended interval was still 15K in 2013 or did they revise it for TU also at about the time the CCP did for the N63 engine. N63 CCP also required battery replacement at every oil change, did this also affect early N63TU? Wiper blades and cabin air filters are just normal procedure at the dealer and SA's always add them to the ticket. Reading back through your previous posts I see you added 2 quarts of oil, though not excessive it was using some oil. Is it possible the previous owner ran it low on oil a couple of times since he was not bringing the car in for service when he was supposed to?

Even if the crankshaft appears to be repairable I'm not sure it could be ground to an undersize. Does BMW even offer replacement rod bearings in undersizes? Crankshaft grinding is disappearing from the scene because the equipment is very expensive and it requires a skilled machinist to do good work. Most of the guys who knew how to operate one are no longer around and really there's very little money to be made by offering that service anymore.

Please keep us updated on how things work out with the BMW tech you've found. A lot of us stay tuned here to learn what we can about the various N63 engine issues.


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## Oaker55 (Mar 7, 2014)

Just as a reference, I bought my ‘13 650GC in early March of ‘14. It was a left over with about 200 demo miles on it. I didn’t have it long enough to get to 15000 miles but was told that 15000 was the oil change interval. 


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Mine was 15K mile intervals as well... though it uses an algorithm that measures your driving characteristics to adjust the intervals ,if driven hard or in more stop and go, it adjusts the time between oil changes even brake liners factor in... I'm told the batteries are changed every oil change as per TSB till 50K or ISD then it is on the customer and I'm also told it's around $700... as far as machinists and machining they are fully equipped in house to remanufacture and have many many satisfied customers of N63TU - S63TU - S85 - N55 - N54 rebuilds all over the US with real reliability and customer feedback ... all without a single advertisement ... the owner owns two beasts - a S85 M5 and a M6 F06 with 850 HP completely ran through and upgraded internally ...along with his his knowledge as we spoke on what he's found that has been root causes of many failures in these engines and the upgrades or work arounds that he uses to address these issues at the same money as a used engine will cost you... not to mention the great warranty that also comes with the rebuild...I have chosen to wait to give contact info and specifics till I get the full experience ,not to keep everyone guessing, but to be able to truly report to you all what I believe will be "the guy to go to"


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

Just some cause/effect statements I see above:
1) Over revving will not cause a lower rod end bearling failure. Bearings are simple flat surfaces, that float on a sheet of oil. The higher the revs, the higher the pressure, the more robust and thicker that film of oil that the bearing is floating on.
2) Missing an oil change by 10,20,40% will not cause that bearing to fail, in that short of miles. Unless, some other part began to disintegrate inside the engine and material/debris got caught in between the bearing and the journal. 
3) An oil filter failure will cause this kind of failure, because of (2); debris released into the oil stream. 
4) Most definitely, lugging the engine while cold will cause this failure, as it pounds the bearing while it is loose fitting, due to cold engine temperatures. But, one can only 'lug' an engine with a manual transmission. Even in a manually selected gear on the psuedo-auto transmission, the torque converter will slip enough to soften the pounding of the slow turning engine, but slipping.
5) Simple sloppy machining or poor quality metallurgy will cause the crank journal to go out of round. But that often takes the full expected life of the car to manifest itself, i.e. 100K miles.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Glaird - thank you for that information- I asked the dealer for the diagnosis documentation that I paid for 3 times ,and was told they had 8 hrs of time in, for the root cause for the engine failure and I was told that they only can give me a statement that the oil pan was removed and there was debris in pan... they now won't even state that over revving caused it ,as they told me previously, nor will they even say the rod bearing failed as that was what I was told after I called bull crap on the over rev 


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Marco-F06 said:


> Glaird - thank you for that information- I asked the dealer for the diagnosis documentation that I paid for 3 times ,and was told they had 8 hrs of time in, for the root cause for the engine failure and I was told that they only can give me a statement that the oil pan was removed and there was debris in pan... they now won't even state that over revving caused it ,as they told me previously, nor will they even say the rod bearing failed as that was what I was told after I called bull crap on the over rev
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


Someone at the dealership likely thinks you are about to lawyer up, so they are pulling back and not providing you with information with which to dispute their version of events.

I am not a lawyer (not even close) but after reading through your entire thread, thats what sounds like is happening to me.

You need to see what you already have in writing... and ask them for their diagnosis of the engine, in writing. If they "told" you all that stuff verbally, you should have gotten it in writing, but if you dont have it now, you likely are not getting it from them, other than general statements.


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)

Marco-F06 said:


> Mine was 15K mile intervals as well... though it uses an algorithm that measures your driving characteristics to adjust the intervals ,if driven hard or in more stop and go, it adjusts the time between oil changes even brake liners factor in... I'm told the batteries are changed every oil change as per TSB till 50K or ISD then it is on the customer and I'm also told it's around $700... as far as machinists and machining they are fully equipped in house to remanufacture and have many many satisfied customers of N63TU - S63TU - S85 - N55 - N54 rebuilds all over the US with real reliability and customer feedback ... all without a single advertisement ... the owner owns two beasts - a S85 M5 and a M6 F06 with 850 HP completely ran through and upgraded internally ...along with his his knowledge as we spoke on what he's found that has been root causes of many failures in these engines and the upgrades or work arounds that he uses to address these issues at the same money as a used engine will cost you... not to mention the great warranty that also comes with the rebuild...I have chosen to wait to give contact info and specifics till I get the full experience ,not to keep everyone guessing, but to be able to truly report to you all what I believe will be "the guy to go to"


Sounds like a very experienced and knowledgeable fellow. It would be interesting to get his take on the rod bearing problems S63, S65 and S85 owners are experiencing. So far, the best solution they've come up with is to replace rod bearings every 25,000 miles.


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

I agree with jjrandorin. If you seek a lawyer, keep that to yourself. It is often best if the obstinate 3rd party gets a surprise phone call/letter/summons. 
Next, I think it is time to call BMW USA and express, politely but firmly, your dissatisfaction with the quality of their cars, this dealership in particular w/details, and the fact you have to cough up the price of a similar used car, to pay for what looks like a defective engine. This has succeeded for me, 45 years ago, with Stigall Datsun, my Datsun 2000, and Nissan USA. However, by the 3rd dealer caused failure, even Nissan USA refused to get involved. 
Also, you might put out some feelers to other BMW dealerships in your area to see if they might handle this repair. I suspect they can get to almost all the records themselves, without the current dealership even knowing they are prying into the case.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Unfortunately I only have what they told me over phone conversations... Those are my thoughts exactly about them thinking I'm lawyering up... but why wouldn't they want to determine ,BMW NA at least, why a car that hasn't made it to 50K has failed and maybe try to use that information to prevent further customers from experiencing this nightmare... or does that caring disappear as the in service date matures? I'll know the true cause of the failure very soon, as it is about to be completed torn down. 


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Glaird said:


> Just some cause/effect statements I see above:
> 1) Over revving will not cause a lower rod end bearling failure. Bearings are simple flat surfaces, that float on a sheet of oil. The higher the revs, the higher the pressure, the more robust and thicker that film of oil that the bearing is floating on.


Called film strength and it is limited.


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)




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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

I have spoken with BMWNA and made my thoughts known to its representative... all the while being polite and composed... I was told the decision was made by the SE rep out of Atlanta to not assist me with a good faith engine replacement or even a much better price other than $26215.00 because of the oil change intervals - I even asked for some trade assistance so maybe I can get into a newer F06 and after 4 days was denied any at all - this vehicle is super clean in and out, new OEM tires, Bang Olufsen system..loaded all the way less the night vision... and they offered me $7K trade.. completely burying me in a M4 after forking out $10K down to cover negative equity... So that's not an option...The dealer CSR left me 2 voicemails to contact her about my service experience as well as a follow up text message from a cellphone asking me for my email address ... upon this text I called to express my dissatisfaction in having to pay out of pocket for the engine as well as now a $500 diagnostic fee, I was told ,as if I was a small child, how my car "is like an airplane" how "like an airplane it has a little black box that tells you if you are flying to high or to low or even to fast" & "they don't lie" she concluded by saying "I am aware of your situation and understand we went above and beyond what we had to, I simply wanted an email address to send you some coupons, I didn't need to even talk to you" So I'm at my end, I think I'll place a call to the GM and see if he is aware of my situation 


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)

I feel the pain with you on this Marco, you have a lot of money on the line here but I think BMW has a point also. It could open a big can of worms if they started granting warranty on engine problems where owners have neglected to change their oil on time. Not saying that's the cause here but it does give BMW a leg to stand on. 

Lemme refresh my memory a little here if you will. This car was purchased over the Internet from an independent dealer in another state who bought the car at auction. That dealer told you the original owner went over on a couple of scheduled oil changes and also informed you the air bags had been deployed and some of the details are posted at Carfax. Does this car have a rebuilt title and a DMV issued replacement serial number?

The only part your local BMW dealer has in this is trying to help you get some assistance from BMWNA on the engine failure and partial disassembly to inspect internal damage which you paid $500 for. Am I correct?


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Marco-F06 said:


> Oaker55 yes and yes but *no on the BMW dealer- it was a high end lot with big $ cars -* AMG - Audi S-line - //M cars - Porsche - you know the good stuff-
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


BTW.. Its my opinion that BMW will not help you with this at all, since its:

A) a used car, and
B) not even purchased from a BMW dealer.

BMW NA has zero skin in the game at this point. Your dealer is your used car lot dealer, not a BMW dealer unless I am mis reading what you put, so BMW itself has zero to do with this other than to complain about the car itself. I think you would be wasting your breath, and any and all remedies would be between you and whatever the name of the dealer you bought it from, which was not a BMW one.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

I found the car on the internet- flew to purchase it .. dealer never told me about oil... only after engine failure did this come up..no airbag deployment as per CarFax , but front left fender had been replaced through insurance,State Farm to be exact, with BMWs body shop - no rebuilt title- no replacement serial # - I did pay for diagnosis 


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Rusty34 said:


> I feel the pain with you on this Marco, you have a lot of money on the line here but I think BMW has a point also. It could open a big can of worms if they started granting warranty on engine problems where owners have neglected to change their oil on time. Not saying that's the cause here but it does give BMW a leg to stand on.
> 
> Lemme refresh my memory a little here if you will. This car was purchased over the Internet from an independent dealer in another state who bought the car at auction. That dealer told you the original owner went over on a couple of scheduled oil changes and also informed you the air bags had been deployed and some of the details are posted at Carfax. Does this car have a rebuilt title and a DMV issued replacement serial number?
> 
> The only part your local BMW dealer has in this is trying to help you get some assistance from BMWNA on the engine failure and partial disassembly to inspect internal damage which you paid $500 for. Am I correct?


You were posting that while I was typing.. but your recollection of this is what I am reading as well...

All we have to go on is what is posted here, but this sounds like the account here.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

If it had a rebuilt tile or airbags were deployed or even if I knew it had missed the oil changes... I would not be typing right now... it would not have been ever purchased 


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

I'm getting confused on the original details as well. If Rusty34's summary is the essential chain of events, Marco-F06 is running out of options. I didn't realize you were not dealing with the same BMW dealership you bought the car from. 
Everyone on the other side of this could be lying through their teeth. But, Marco-F06 has no way to prove it. (My wife & I discovered in a house transaction based on pure fiction, that lawyers are expensive and even when you are dead right, you often can't afford entry fee to court. And the seller knows that. We lost $40K in damages on a $225K house, that we never recovered.) I'm thinking take the time to talk to a local lawyer, if his consultation fees are reasonable. But . . . this may be a hard lesson in why one never uses eBay (betting this is 'the internet') to buy anything. (I've even closed my account with Amazon because they are becoming eBay Jr.)
Next option is to see if you can ship your car for less than $1K to/from the machine shop that can rebuild the bottom end of BMW engines. Except, ask for references before you commit!
Then drive the car until it manifests it's next catastrophic expense and donate it to charity.


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)

Marco-F06 said:


> If it had a rebuilt tile or airbags were deployed or even if I knew it had missed the oil changes... I would not be typing right now... it would not have been ever purchased
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


OK, thanks for the correction. Then you found out about the missed oil changes when your car was taken to your local dealer and the SA looked it up on the computer?


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

Rusty34 said:


> < pictures of burned out lower bearing >


 Yep, this is exactly what my Datsun 2000 crankshaft and con rod looked like when I pulled the oil pan off. I attribute the failure to the original owner lugging the car, as most 2000 owners did, with the tall gearing and peaky HP curve. My occasional lugging of the car on cold mornings. And the journal being ever so slightly egg shaped, when I bought the car at 24K miles. The failure occurred at 93K miles. I heard the bottom end tapping at 91K miles. 
When it failed, I was flat broke having gone back to school to finish my degree. A lesson in life.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Glaird - it's already been shipped to be repaired - with very good references- feedback and long term reliability- I would not ever just trust anyone 

Rusty34 - yes that is correct 


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

OP, the main problem is, you flew to buy this car from "a high end dealership", but now that there are problems, you took it to a BMW dealer (who tried to get BMW to pay for a new engine for you, and failed... maybe due to the missed oil changes etc).

There is NOTHING wrong with buying a car from wherever you want to... private party, third party dealership, etc... but then expecting BMW corporate to pay for an out of warranty issue is a hope.. not something they have to do. They would have likely been more inclined to do so if you had purchased this from a BMW dealership... and even more inclined if it was a CPO car that was just outside of warranty, that had all its maintenance done.

That doesnt mean that the over due oil changes caused anything. It just means that BMW requires service done on a specific schedule and if that schedule is not followed, they have a less obligation to "help" you. No mistake about it, you were asking for help / mercy from them, which they decided to deny.

Its a crappy situation, and I feel for you... but BMW (neither your dealer, nor BMW USA has any skin in for you, other than BMW USA deciding to help you (or not), which they decided to not help. One of the reasons to purchase a car at a local dealership is so you have someone to go back and "work with " if one has a problem. Your purchase from a remote dealership (used car lot) is no different than if you had bought it from a private party person... and BMW looks at it like that as well.

Whatever you saved on going to that dealership you are now spending on getting the engine rebuilt. Sometimes you win, sometimes roll craps... in this case, you came up on the wrong side of this, which sucks.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

You are right man... but in my mind if I managed a dealership and this issue came to be, with the customer only assisted $2500 of a total $31K quote whether it be from BMW Audi Ford Kia whoever it may be, as a dealer in this type circumstance... I would cut the engine and labor to cost to keep a customer loyal from then on - heck at least help him by absorbing the diagnostic fee - everyone happy-everything done- the technician paid just no profit in one job , You and I can buy the same engine, same part # listed on the quote from BMW of Atlanta's website delivered for $300 less than they told me would be their lowest price, without adding in the $2500 from BMWUSA , that's a whopping 11% off the original quote .. I truly believe if I walked in the door with a 100K car out of warranty, I could negotiate a lower discount than 11% ... I say this as I was an assistant parts manager for Ford Motor Co for 7yrs with my grandfather owning said dealership for many many more- I've supplied lots parts to retail customers - bodyshops - service customers as well as master technicians trust me there is considerable mark up in parts and service and ones just a keystroke or MGRs approval away from making parts and or labor reduced to cost or just over to the customer 


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

Anyway at the end of the day, I am where I am... I can only hope that things get better and my car comes back bigger and better than ever- I apologize for seeming overly expressive and long winded, but until placed in situations like these, one can only imagine and try to understand this feeling of disconnect ----I'll keep you all posted through this N63 resurrection process as it unravels...this I promise !


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Marco-F06 said:


> You are right man... but in my mind if I managed a dealership and this issue came to be, with the customer only assisted $2500 of a total $31K quote whether it be from BMW Audi Ford Kia whoever it may be, as a dealer in this type circumstance... I would cut the engine and labor to cost to keep a customer loyal from then on - heck at least help him by absorbing the diagnostic fee - everyone happy-everything done- the technician paid just no profit in one job , You and I can buy the same engine, same part # listed on the quote from BMW of Atlanta's website delivered for $300 less than they told me would be their lowest price, without adding in the $2500 from BMWUSA , that's a whopping 11% off the original quote .. I truly believe if I walked in the door with a 100K car out of warranty, I could negotiate a lower discount than 11% ... I say this as I was an assistant parts manager for Ford Motor Co for 7yrs with my grandfather owning said dealership for many many more- I've supplied lots parts to retail customers - bodyshops - service customers as well as master technicians trust me there is considerable mark up in parts and service and ones just a keystroke or MGRs approval away from making parts and or labor reduced to cost or just over to the customer
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


Yes, Parts and labor (service) is the major profit driver for dealerships. You worked in that industry (I did not ) but I also know that is true. If I was running the dealership, I also likely would have tried to lower the price down as much as I could for you (keeping in mind that I have to pay the tech to install it, etc).

I would likely have tried to get BMW to pay for it (because then of course you would say "yes" to fixing it) or tried to make you a good deal on a replacement car you might be happy with by selling you something at close to my actual cost.. either new or used. I was not there, so I dont know, but from your account I would not have treated you the way the BMW dealer treated you.

Now BMW USA on the other hand, they are within their rights to say "no" and while you bought a BMW, you didnt buy a new one, nor did you buy one from one of their dealers, so like I said, they have a lot less sympathy for that, which I understand. You drive one of their cars, but really are not one of their customers... if that makes sense.

The dealer had a great opportunity to turn you into one of their customers by doing its best to take care of you, but it sounds like they just "punted" when BMW would not pay for the full engine.

The only "good" side of this for you, is it sounds like you found the right person to fix it, which would likely end up better than if the dealer had fixed it. The person you are describing sounds like a master mechanic, who loves that engine and is very familiar with it. Its likely that the car ends up better than it was when it was new, given what you stated about the person fixing it.

Its sort of the "cloud with a silver lining" but if you like the car itself, its likely that you come out of this with the car running better than it would have otherwise.

Good luck with it, and let us know how it runs when you get it back together.


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## Marco-F06 (Dec 11, 2017)

jjrandorin said:


> Yes, Parts and labor (service) is the major profit driver for dealerships. You worked in that industry (I did not ) but I also know that is true. If I was running the dealership, I also likely would have tried to lower the price down as much as I could for you (keeping in mind that I have to pay the tech to install it, etc).
> 
> I would likely have tried to get BMW to pay for it (because then of course you would say "yes" to fixing it) or tried to make you a good deal on a replacement car you might be happy with by selling you something at close to my actual cost.. either new or used. I was not there, so I dont know, but from your account I would not have treated you the way the BMW dealer treated you.
> 
> ...


Thank you.. I truly believe you are right on the rebuilding ... it will be very soon that we all will witness the steps of her rebirth ... I will keep you guys posted

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## rhite95 (Mar 17, 2015)

I hope everything works out for the OP !!


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## Rick D (Jul 15, 2014)

Marco-F06 said:


> this vehicle is super clean in and out
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


 My thoughts on this comment....

An EX friend of mine was kind of a funny guy about his vehicles... 4 wheelers, Harleys, trucks and cars alike... ALL them looked brand new.. He washed, machine polished, and waxed em almost daily... Filled in any rock chips with dabs of paint, sanded them and buffed em out..... 
BUT, he NEVER serviced, changed oil, or changed out the brakes unless he actually had to.. This means when the rotors were so worn ( like paper) the pads ( the metal that held the pads ) actually fell out onto the street.... 6 figure income, single guy, NO ex bitch payments of any kind, he was just weird about any kind of maintencance.... 
Did I say he ran the crap out of EVERYTHING... He is the picture in the Dictionary next to " Run hard and put away wet".....

So when he sold these items they were cosmetically immaculate and people thought they were getting a steal on a "cherry"...... I always felt sorry for whoever ended up with his worn out destroyed "shiny", clean toys and cars....


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

Rick D said:


> My thoughts on this comment....
> 
> An EX friend of mine was kind of a funny guy about his vehicles... 4 wheelers, Harleys, trucks and cars alike... ALL them looked brand new.. He washed, machine polished, and waxed em almost daily... Filled in any rock chips with dabs of paint, sanded them and buffed em out.....
> BUT, he NEVER serviced, changed oil, or changed out the brakes unless he actually had to.. This means when the rotors were so worn ( like paper) the pads ( the metal that held the pads ) actually fell out onto the street.... 6 figure income, single guy, NO ex bitch payments of any kind, he was just weird about any kind of maintencance....
> ...


This is a textbook reason why one should never even approach a rental car sales lot. Because, they do absolutely nothing to maintain them. They just top up fluids if they are low and send them right back out into the hands of people who care even less about the well being of that vehicle. 
Now, what is starting to scare me, is evidence while I browse dealership used car lots, and I see "lease returns", allegedly taken in by said dealer, that are treated and maintain identically as above.
Both, after a buff & wax that strips the clear coat off the finish, look cherry on the outside, but mechanically have been brutalized, by negligent owner/operators.


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## rogueshot (Aug 25, 2013)

uhh..you did see that BMW NA just slashed the prices on rebuilt N63s through dealers. As low as $2800 I think from some dealers (plus core). I suspect that these motors are for N63s that went "boom" like that will not be covered under the N63 settlement... I assume an N63tu could be replaced with an N63....


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