# Germany Institutes Border Controls with Austria



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

This came about as a result of the migrant/refugee crisis. Having lived in Germany before controls were lifted and having waited to cross the border into Austria numerous times, I have to imagine it must be quite chaotic at the major crossings esp. without any train service.

*Germany Institutes Border Controls with Austria, Shuts Down Trains Between the 2 Countries*


> Germany announced on Sunday that it was reinstating temporary controls at its southern border with Austria, using emergency powers after being overwhelmed by the tens of thousands of migrants from countries including Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria....
> 
> <SNIP>


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## RDL53 (Jun 5, 2013)

*Munich Overwhelmed*

Munich under siege:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232744/We-t-German-authorities-call-urgent-action-migrant-crisis-locals-say-Munich-brink-humanitarian-disaster.html

Why did Germany (Merkel) allow this to happen?:thumbdwn:


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## Link1970 (May 24, 2015)

*ED safe?*

Have ED planned for next month. I have been looking at the reports from Germany and all the chaos. This is certainly not how I pictured my first ED, stepping over sleeping refugees at the train station and protests in the streets with competing factions. Hope this is resolved soon.


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## BimmerBahn (Nov 24, 2005)

Don't hold your breath. It's a debacle of epic proportion. Unfortunately a long time coming. Until the unrest is dealt with, Assad removed from power and ISIS destroyed there aren't many options for them.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

skilletbgm said:


> Don't hold your breath. It's a debacle of epic proportion. Unfortunately a long time coming. Until the unrest is dealt with, Assad removed from power and ISIS destroyed there aren't many options for them.


There is an option next door - the Gulf States. Same language, culture, and faith.


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## cnair (May 25, 2015)

skier said:


> There is an option next door - the Gulf States. Same language, culture, and faith.


All of them combined have taken barely 500 people in.


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## aardvark (Apr 15, 2002)

The so-called 'refugees' are reportedly 80% young men... all armed with the latest smartphones. The crowd is rather light on the bedraggled women/children/elderly you'd expect if this were a true refugee crisis. It's more like an opportunistic invasion brought about by the German government's insane open-door policy.

I was so impressed with Munich/Bavaria when I was there in June. It's tragic to consider what might become of it under Merkel's misguided policies.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

RDL53 said:


> Munich under siege:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3232744/We-t-German-authorities-call-urgent-action-migrant-crisis-locals-say-Munich-brink-humanitarian-disaster.html
> 
> Why did Germany (Merkel) allow this to happen?:thumbdwn:


That's a very good question. I don't understand it myself. What I mean by that is I don't understand Merkel doing it. She used to be anti-immigrant. She's an East German who was brought up in that system and who studied in Moscow for a year or two. She entered politics as part of the first democratically elected government in the former East Germany. So she's not the most liberal politician in the world by a long shot.

Is this one of those Nixon to China moments? That was a shocking announcement at the time. If a Democratic president had proposed something like that he would have been impeached. It was the right thing to do at the time but only a Republican could pull it off.

Is this the same thing with Merkel agreeing to accept 800,000 refugees this year alone? Maybe only 60% will be granted permanent residency? Maybe 80%. How will they weed out potential bad apples? Will they have the same problems Paris is having with all their emigrants from former French North Africa? That's because the former French North Africans haven't really been integrated into French society. Regardless, it's still a problem there.

Will the same thing happen in Munich, Hamburg and Berlin? Will they have large communities of Arabic-speaking Muslims that continue to speak their own language and form their own isolated communities? Germany has had problems integrating immigrants from Turkey, how are they going to assimilate this many Arab Muslims into their Aryan Christian culture? How will Germany deal with the potential rise of rightwing Aryan national socialist movements?

It's a noble idea but 800,000 new immigrants into a country the size of Germany by the end of this year seems unimaginable to me. That's the same as the US taking in 3.2 million new immigrants!


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## Brian R. (Sep 5, 2002)

Well that silly weekend part of my ED plans into Salzburg for 2 days seems like a bad choice. Unfortunately I booked that specific stay as a nonrefundable rate. As I read it it's only an issue getting back into Germany, correct?


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

JSpira said:


> This came about as a result of the migrant/refugee crisis. Having lived in Germany before controls were lifted and having waited to cross the border into Austria numerous times, I have to imagine it must be quite chaotic at the major crossings esp. without any train service.
> 
> *Germany Institutes Border Controls with Austria, Shuts Down Trains Between the 2 Countries*


JSpira, thanks for the posting. Looks like it is not just the major crossings as it gets even closer to the Welt with thousands soon to be camped just across the street:

"The authorities are considering whether to open up the Olympiahalle - a stadium used for the 1972 Olympics and which today serves as a concert hall or sports arena - as a temporary shelter for the refugees."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rink-humanitarian-disaster.html#ixzz3lfbTrjP1 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Is this the end of the European Union as we currently know it? Instead of Greece or Portugal or Italy causing it to break up maybe this refugee crisis will do it? The interior ministers of all 28 EU member states meet tomorrow to address this crisis. The EU charter requires agreement among all members to get anything done and I just don't see how that's going to happen on this issue. Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Britain, and some others, don't want these refugees.

Germany's "temporary" closure of its border may drag on for a long time if an agreement is not reached. Munich received 12,000 new refugees Saturday alone! Did Angela Merkel even consider the logistics of taking in 800,000 refugees before the end of the year? That's the same as the US agreeing to take in 3.2 million!

If the individual EU countries close their borders is it still the European Union? Instead of the euro causing their breakup, could a refugee crisis do it?


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## woobiee (Mar 20, 2015)

With our ED arriving late this week, should I be a bit alarmed by all this? Is our safety going to be jeopardized?


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## verruckt1 (Apr 22, 2015)

woobiee said:


> With our ED arriving late this week, should I be a bit alarmed by all this? Is our safety going to be jeopardized?


No, not really. I wouldn't worry about it.

Germany and Northern Europe are FAR safer than America by a long shot. I've lived extensively in both, as a US/German citizen - Wouldn't hesitate in a second to go, and as a matter of fact I'll be there myself this week.

As of yet, there's no real violence tied to any of this - many Germans actually welcoming them with open arms, food, clothes, etc. (which is bull**** IMHO). If anything, this action to reinstate border controls will make it more peaceful in Munich in the coming weeks instead of the continual flood into downtown I've heard of in the past week.


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## verruckt1 (Apr 22, 2015)

Ninong said:


> Is this the end of the European Union as we currently know it? Instead of Greece or Portugal or Italy causing it to break up maybe this refugee crisis will do it? The interior ministers of all 28 EU member states meet tomorrow to address this crisis. The EU charter requires agreement among all members to get anything done and I just don't see how that's going to happen on this issue. Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Britain, and some others, don't want these refugees.
> 
> Germany's "temporary" closure of its border may drag on for a long time if an agreement is not reached. Munich received 12,000 new refugees Saturday alone! Did Angela Merkel even consider the logistics of taking in 800,000 refugees before the end of the year? That's the same as the US agreeing to take in 3.2 million!
> 
> If the individual EU countries close their borders is it still the European Union? Instead of the euro causing their breakup, could a refugee crisis do it?


Frankly, I wish it would mean the end of the Euro, but it's not likely.

I saw the Euro come in, and would like to see it go out - it was and still is a complete disaster.

I can promise you, that had border controls remained in place this "refugee crisis" would never have happened.


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## RDL53 (Jun 5, 2013)

_ can promise you, that had border controls remained in place this "refugee crisis" would never have happened._

It's Greece, they are weak and have no army to speak of to control their borders, they were the first line of defense. Macedonia tried to keep them out , the only country working to maintain their sovereignty and borders is Hungary.
Will see how this plays out and whether Germany will set a moratorium on new refugees.


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## pawarrant (Jun 15, 2006)

verruckt said:


> No, not really. I wouldn't worry about it.
> 
> Germany and Northern Europe are FAR safer than America by a long shot. I've lived extensively in both, as a US/German citizen - Wouldn't hesitate in a second to go, and as a matter of fact I'll be there myself this week.
> 
> As of yet, there's no real violence tied to any of this - many Germans actually welcoming them with open arms, food, clothes, etc. (which is bull**** IMHO). If anything, this action to reinstate border controls will make it more peaceful in Munich in the coming weeks instead of the continual flood into downtown I've heard of in the past week.


I'm pretty sure people are not worried about German violence. The problem is every western intelligence source is certain ISIS has infiltrated the refugee population. That is a huge safety concern.


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## verruckt1 (Apr 22, 2015)

pawarrant said:


> I'm pretty sure people are not worried about German violence. The problem is every western intelligence source is certain ISIS has infiltrated the refugee population. That is a huge safety concern.


Maybe I wasn't clear enough, not in regards to Germans being violent but that there has been no violence. As in the whole scene as of late has been very peaceful.

In regards to your intel comment, the problem is the solution - in other words, intel knows who they are. That same concern applies to the US and the city you live in.

If you know the group's (and similar group's) MO, then you know how to mitigate some of those security concerns. I can go into detail later if people want to know some tips as I worked in the field of this topic, and in Europe during 02 to 06 when the things you worry about actually happened.


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## aardvark (Apr 15, 2002)

Interesting analysis of the situation:
http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/09/12/insane-asylum/


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## Vendetta (Jul 9, 2015)

This is a bit concerning - I will be doing my ED next week and will be driving around Munich, Frankfurt and Wiesbaden.


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

verruckt said:


> Maybe I wasn't clear enough, not in regards to Germans being violent but that there has been no violence. As in the whole scene as of late has been very peaceful.


I wouldn't classify the first picture in the link below as a very peaceful protest.

http://www.nyooztrend.com/regional/343838-germany-s-refugee-inferno-a-disturbing-dispatch-with-dark-echoes-of-the-past-as-the-nation-divides-over-the-influx-of-foreigners.html

I would be concerned doing an ED at this time. Especially if they open Olympiapark to refugees.


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## MunichLocal (Jul 4, 2015)

Gary70 said:


> Brian, in light of current events, you may be able to cancel your reservation or ,if you have insurance, get insurances to pay for it.
> 
> Son of my friend is in Germany now. He with some of his friends tried to go to Salzburg this weekend. With rental car out of question (they were denied due to the safety) they settled on train. Train was stopped before they reached border. They were advised to take a taxi to the checkpoint and cross over by foot. Needles to say they turned around.
> 
> Personally, I would not risk it. I am so glad that my itinerary doesn't include border crossing. Yet, on my way from Munich to Baden-Baden, I was planing to travel by the Bodensee.


Just dont go on the autobahn. Piece of cake! Rental car is perfect. 
(Going by train is a mess right now between Germany and Austria)
There are dozens of non-autobahn-border crossings. No checks at all, no traffic jams.
This border closing is just a bad joke, it shows on the media, that german government is doing something against this huge amount of refugees. Lol!


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## MunichLocal (Jul 4, 2015)

pawarrant said:


> Many of the military aged males are the ones we are so concerned about. ISIS, the Quds Force, and other organizations who have the goal of destroying western life are not stupid. They are taking advantage of the open boarders to infiltrate western cities with intentions which are not quite as noble as you believe.


Real terrorists dont have to travel like refugees. They will infiltrate anyway, but they like to travel by plane.

How many people got killed in the last 10 or 5 years in the US or Germany by hate crimes, persons running amok, criminal acts... And how many by infiltrated islamic terrorists?

We should be worried more about our own society than frightened about a imaginary threat.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

MunichLocal said:


> Just dont go on the autobahn. Piece of cake! Rental car is perfect.
> (Going by train is a mess right now between Germany and Austria)
> There are dozens of non-autobahn-border crossings. No checks at all, no traffic jams.
> This border closing is just a bad joke, it shows on the media, that german government is doing something against this huge amount of refugees. Lol!


That may be true, but I thought the poster was saying the rental car company would not allow their rental cars to go across the border into Austria, regardless of the crossing point? For example, when I rent a car in Hawaii the rental car company puts restrictions on certain roads that they have determined to be off limits. Same thing if you rent a car in San Diego, you may be denied the right to take it over the border to Mexico even though the crossing border guards would care less.


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## MunichLocal (Jul 4, 2015)

With rental cars there are no restriction within the EU. Exception: expensive supercars.

But if you ask tem if its save to go to Austria and if its possible to cross the border, they maybe denie that. Not because of fact, but to avoid problems.

I got a rental yesterday for a business trip to Austria, just drove the Alpenstrasse and avoided Autobahn near the border. No police at all, no controls, no traffic jams, all people were stuck on the Autobahn - and I enjoyed the Alpenstrasse.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

MunichLocal said:


> Real terrorists dont have to travel like refugees. They will infiltrate anyway, but they like to travel by plane.
> 
> How many people got killed in the last 10 or 5 years in the US or Germany by hate crimes, persons running amok, criminal acts... And how many by infiltrated islamic terrorists?
> 
> We should be worried more about our own society than frightened about a imaginary threat.


I understand where you are coming from and you are probably 90% correct. I believe some sports personality recently made a comment about Nazis only having been a small percentage of the German population when conceding that the terrorists are only a small percentage of their populations. That did not go over too well.

What I think is a more significant threat though is if the refugees in the demographic we are talking about cannot find jobs and otherwise fit into an alien to them society that they become susceptible to the influences that can lead to criminal conduct, if not terrorism. In Southeast Asia where there were large migrations of refugees in many instances they were kept in refugee camps by their host countries. The German model is certainly a brave one but comes with unknowns and risks that are compounded simply by the large numbers coming in within such a short period of time.

In my contacts with local German citizens in recent years I noted there had been concern with regard to the large number of Turkish persons who had migrated to Germany. Before that it was individuals from various Eastern European countries and even from East Germany after the wall came down who were seen as at least economically threatening the status quo. It would not be surprising to see the newly established Turkish immigrants and other non Germans at odds with the current wave soon to be threatening their jobs, again exaggerated by the large numbers coming in all at once.


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## MunichLocal (Jul 4, 2015)

Yes, I agree especially with the unknown risks. But I cant talk about these refugees if they were proven ISIS terrorists just because it will be a hard time to integrate these people. Germany deals with that integration quite well, even if its very expensive for my country.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

MunichLocal said:


> With rental cars there are no restriction within the EU. Exception: expensive supercars.
> 
> But if you ask tem if its save to go to Austria and if its possible to cross the border, they maybe denie that. Not because of fact, but to avoid problems.
> 
> I got a rental yesterday for a business trip to Austria, just drove the Alpenstrasse and avoided Autobahn near the border. No police at all, no controls, no traffic jams, all people were stuck on the Autobahn - and I enjoyed the Alpenstrasse.


That is very encouraging. Thanks for the personal experience.


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## White05X3 (Jan 30, 2006)

MunichLocal-

First off thank you for your insights and participation in this forum!

Second may I please ask if there are any traffic problems around the Welt now? I'm doing ED next Thursday and want to allow enough time to get there.

Finally to the community in general does anybody have a link to see traffic information at the German/Austrian border? I am going to Salzburg after my delivery and would like to plan a less congested route.

Thanks!


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## friskygeek (Jan 5, 2015)

MunichLocal said:


> Yes, I agree especially with the unknown risks. But I cant talk about these refugees if they were proven ISIS terrorists just because it will be a hard time to integrate these people. Germany deals with that integration quite well, even if its very expensive for my country.


Just wanted to thank you and the German nation for showing empathy towards your fellow human beings.

f.


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## jcs (Dec 25, 2001)

White05X3 said:


> MunichLocal-
> ...Finally to the community in general does anybody have a link to see traffic information at the German/Austrian border? I am going to Salzburg after my delivery and would like to plan a less congested route.
> 
> Thanks!


We're very concerned as well. Were dropping off the car in Vienna, planning to drive from Bratislava in the morning. Also worried about crossing into Hungary from Romania.

I've been checking traffic daily on Google (maps.google.com). But I don't know how Google separates the truck traffic from the cars at borders, as trucks are often delayed.


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## ravptor (Feb 19, 2015)

friskygeek said:


> Just wanted to thank you and the German nation for showing empathy towards your fellow human beings.
> 
> f.


+1.

Thank you!


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## shark715 (Nov 20, 2011)

Any update on this?

We are picking up our car the week after next, and will be entering Austria on Autobahn 93 at Kiefersfelden, and returning to Munich on the same road the following week.

Would it be correct to assume there will be no delays entering Austria from Germany?

Also, from what I can piece together, it appears the refugee related delays are well east of where we will be. Is that correct? Can we assume we don't even need to be concerned for our return trip?

Many thanks in advance for your help.


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

shark715 said:


> Any update on this?
> 
> We are picking up our car the week after next, and will be entering Austria on Autobahn 93 at Kiefersfelden, and returning to Munich on the same road the following week.
> 
> ...


Don't worry about it, just be obviously American. Wear sneakers, a NY Yankees (or your favorite team) ball cap, an "Obama Sucks" T-shirt, and speak only English, speaking louder and slower when it looks like the other person doesn't speak English. The authorities will know you are an American (wear a camera around your neck), and you will be fine.


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## MunichLocal (Jul 4, 2015)

shark715 said:


> Any update on this?
> 
> We are picking up our car the week after next, and will be entering Austria on Autobahn 93 at Kiefersfelden, and returning to Munich on the same road the following week.
> 
> ...


Yes, you dont need to be concerned.

There will be some delays at Kiefersfelden, not because of refugees but of ordinary traffic jams.

I always prefer the route over Kochel am See - Mittenwald - Innsbruck to enter that part of Austria. Beautiful roads, amazing scenery, no traffic jams...


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## shark715 (Nov 20, 2011)

MunichLocal said:


> I always prefer the route over Kochel am See - Mittenwald - Innsbruck to enter that part of Austria. Beautiful roads, amazing scenery, no traffic jams...


Thank you! Actually we were thinking of exactly that!


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## friskygeek (Jan 5, 2015)

shark715 said:


> Thank you! Actually we were thinking of exactly that!


Same here. I'll be entering Germany from Austria in Mittenwald. Almost never traffic there from what I can see in google maps traffic.

f.


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## MunichLocal (Jul 4, 2015)

White05X3 said:


> MunichLocal-
> 
> First off thank you for your insights and participation in this forum!
> 
> ...


Just little time left for your ED...

There is actually no traffic problem around the WELT, just little more traffic in MUC because of Oktoberfest. 
For traffic just use google maps, works well! 
Heading to Salzburg I would do a little detour:
Munich - Inzell - Berchtesgaden - Salzburg. Great drive, less traffic, no border problems!
Enjoy!!!


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## pawarrant (Jun 15, 2006)

We were in Munich from Friday to Sunday doing all the touristy and Octoberfest stuff. We did not see any refugees nor encounter any issues or traffic because of it. We drove to Garmish-P and the castles Sunday wit no issues at all.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

pawarrant said:


> We were in Munich from Friday to Sunday doing all the touristy and Octoberfest stuff. We did not see any refugees nor encounter any issues or traffic because of it. We drove to Garmish-P and the castles Sunday wit no issues at all.


Apparently there was an article in the Wall Street Journal on 9/22 that addresses current status. I only saw the abbreviated version but sounds like there is a lot of division among the EU nations as to accepting the migrants. Impliedly the transit countries (Turkey in particular) have taken steps to limit or slow the influx so that may be easing the large numbers that were coming into Germany a week ago?


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

Northcar said:


> Apparently there was an article in the Wall Street Journal on 9/22 that addresses current status. I only saw the abbreviated version but sounds like there is a lot of division among the EU nations as to accepting the migrants. Impliedly the transit countries (Turkey in particular) have taken steps to limit or slow the influx so that may be easing the large numbers that were coming into Germany a week ago?


Looks like I spoke too soon. Good Morning America reported this morning that the largest surge for a single day flooded into Turkey numbering 10,000 plus.


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