# How does your HK system sound?



## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

ff said:


> *I'd like to start with the amp and crossovers. So the amp is external? *


Like tgravo said, the amp is external. A lot of what I did is based from here and here.

There's no need to replace the head unit to improve the sound. I do have a nice a/d/s amp I'm looking to get rid of, preferably without putting it on ebay ... :angel:

I can post my own pictures of what I did if people are interested...


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

SpaceMonkey said:


> *Like tgravo said, the amp is external. A lot of what I did is based from here and here.
> 
> There's no need to replace the head unit to improve the sound. I do have a nice a/d/s amp I'm looking to get rid of, preferably without putting it on ebay ... :angel:
> 
> I can post my own pictures of what I did if people are interested... *


Cool, thanks for the info, guys. I guess that I was hoping to replace just the amp. I didn't realize that the subs were somehow tied into the system, such that you'd lose them if you replace the HK amp. I can live with the sound for a while, if it means that I have to start replacing speakers too.


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

Not to pleased with mine see this thread .


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## GaryB (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: Mine sounds fine.*



machmeter said:


> *No complaints, no rattles. I can't imagine adding more amp or bass. :dunno: *


Well, maybe there's cause for _some_ hope. I'm not looking for ear-splitting volume or gut-thumping bass, and have no interest in tearing my new car apart to install an aftermarket system. I just want a pleasing, clear, well-balanced sound in an environment which is, after all, too confined and noisy for true hi-fi. If Nissan/Bose could accomplish it in 1996 with a standard-issue (in the Maxima SE) system, shouldn't I expect as much from BMW/HK's optional premium system in 2003?


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

Kaz said:


> *I knew I'd have to replace the amp (3-way fronts vs 2-way components) but had the separates first and put em in. Well, aside from the lack of power, it sounded exactly as it should... a 3-way with a missing midrange. :thumbdwn: I've since replaced the amp but am still unhappy with it so I'm working on my next step now, but I'm having a hard time finding someone with a stock sedan HK system they want to part with. *


What are you looking for exactly, the entire H/K system?


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

Dr. Phil said:


> *Not to pleased with mine see this thread . *


Some comments in that thread clicked in my head, particularily those from Technic:

*"After reading your 'adventure', changing amps and speakers, tightening the mounts and doors, it seems to me one of two things: that the speaker design is not up to the frequencies fed to it, or the HK amp crossover frequency fed to the front speaker does not match the speaker specs."*

Since the muffled sound seems to be coming from the front speakers, it must be the crossovers. They are being fed a signal that is too low in the frequency, compared to what it was designed to handle. Hence the awfull, disorted sound. Since the Oxford Green 2002 that I had sounded really good (and it was a very early 2002, so possibly used the parts left over from the 2001 units), I can't help but think they changed something, like the crossovers beginning the 2002 model year?

I'd like to contact BMW and try to find out. Who would I call?


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## michelito (Feb 6, 2003)

*I'm scared now!!!*

The HK in my 2000 323i Sport sound great, no rattles whatsoever, either at low volumes or high volumes with a lot of bass...
But now I'm looking at a 2003 325ci with HK and if there's a problem with post 2002 systems that scares the s**t out of me... reason I may change the 323 is because it's too often at the dealer already...


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

*Re: I'm scared now!!!*



michelito said:


> *The HK in my 2000 323i Sport sound great, no rattles whatsoever, either at low volumes or high volumes with a lot of bass...
> But now I'm looking at a 2003 325ci with HK and if there's a problem with post 2002 systems that scares the s**t out of me... reason I may change the 323 is because it's too often at the dealer already... *


just dont get the H/K then 

I've never heard the regular system without the H/K, but I mean the H/K is ok for a stock system, just not great


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## michelito (Feb 6, 2003)

Only nice coupe they have in inventory is the one with the HK (steel grey, sport, HK)... I'm looking at it 'cause I just hate the facelift they gave to the sedan and now the coupe... the lights sweeping up and the enlarged grille just don't do it for me...


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## machmeter (Aug 6, 2002)

*Reminds me of*

my car... :tsk:


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

michelito said:


> *Only nice coupe they have in inventory is the one with the HK (steel grey, sport, HK)... I'm looking at it 'cause I just hate the facelift they gave to the sedan and now the coupe... the lights sweeping up and the enlarged grille just don't do it for me... *


go to the dealer, bring your own cd's, and ask them to go sit in the car and listen to them, and adjust the settings as you like, It's really not as bad as we all say, just for $650 it could be a lot better, you might like it though and if you don't mind paying for it, then get it. It can only help resale. :dunno:


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## bwenzel (Apr 4, 2003)

I have a 01 325Cic with the upgrade to the HK system. I generally really enjoy the sound system. Only when I crank it, way up does it distort, and then, horribly!  Unfortunately, in a vert you need to crank it more so than in a hard top. 

I've also had to have the front, passenger door's tweeter replaced under warranty when it cracked.

I also traded in my Acura TL with the Bose system and the big 9" subwoofer in back and no matter if I cranked it all the way it never distorted. I still take my vert!:thumbup:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

tgravo2 said:


> *The amp is external
> 
> Some guys said add a new headunit and bypass the amp. This is what I did but if you have the H/K system you will lose your subs, you will not be able to use them. *


Why is that? Couldn't you just run the amp's input to a 4V preout on the deck?


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

Mystikal said:


> *Why is that? Couldn't you just run the amp's input to a 4V preout on the deck? *


the factory amp does not have RCA jacks


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

tgravo2 said:


> *the factory amp does not have RCA jacks *


I'm sure some kind of creative wiring could have been done to fix that minor detail. :dunno:


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

Mystikal said:


> *I'm sure some kind of creative wiring could have been done to fix that minor detail. :dunno: *


I had my CD player professionally installed at a well known place from guys I trust, they told me it couldn't be done. :dunno:


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## jgrgnt (Apr 27, 2002)

I have been thoroughly unimpressed with every factory stereo system I've listened to. The H/K is no exception. The Bose systems in most current Nissans/Infinitis are absolutely dreadful.

My advice: never rule out aftermarket equipment.


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## 3seriesbimmer (Jun 20, 2002)

I solved the issue by NOT buying the HK crappy sound system... I listened to the advice of members on the forum and sat in several cars with and without the hk system .... in the end I determined the HK NOT worth the extra 600 dollars. The basic sound system also rattle here and there but in the end I didnt pay extra for it so I'm not as persistant to have the dealer find the solution to a problem that I believe lies in the poor build quality and planning the the HK system as a whole.:thumbup:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

3seriesbimmer said:


> *I solved the issue by NOT buying the HK crappy sound system... I listened to the advice of members on the forum and sat in several cars with and without the hk system .... in the end I determined the HK NOT worth the extra 600 dollars. The basic sound system also rattle here and there but in the end I didnt pay extra for it so I'm not as persistant to have the dealer find the solution to a problem that I believe lies in the poor build quality and planning the the HK system as a whole.:thumbup: *


Yeah, but then you're left with the standard system (I have it) and it's complete lack of low-end bass handling. I need some 12's in the back...:bigpimp:

It's all in your taste of music, of course.


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## chuckn (Jan 12, 2002)

I have a '02 330i and have noticed what I would describe as a buzzing in the passenger door tweeter.

It does not happen all the time and I can duplicate with certain CDs.

How do I know if it is only a bad speaker or maybe the bigger problem as discussed in this thread?

Chuck


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

jgrgnt said:


> *I have been thoroughly unimpressed with every factory stereo system I've listened to. The H/K is no exception. The Bose systems in most current Nissans/Infinitis are absolutely dreadful.
> 
> My advice: never rule out aftermarket equipment. *


I have to disagree, the bose systems in the Nissans are very nice I think, I drove an Altima today with the bose system and It was so much nicer than my H/K


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: Re: How does your HK system sound?*



blackhawk77 said:


> *I had a Volvo S60 T5 with the standard system and upgraded power amplifier that sounded much better. *


I have that too. The Dolby Pro Logic stereo is the only thing i like about my car now. 

So when's the new 3er coming out? hehe


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## jeallen (Apr 12, 2003)

I agree with all of the comments previously mentioned. I have an appointment this week to get my H/K subwoofer rattle fixed (there is a Technical Service Bullitin on that one), but was wondering if anyone has tried the method mentioned in the other "rattle" thread that discusses the rubber washers for the front speakers. Has anyone else tried this and been successful??? I am not real fond of prying my door off.....but if I must.......


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## akula57 (Apr 12, 2003)

The more I listen the worse they sound. I suggest better speakers and a different amp. Subwoofer optional - just remove the rear speakers and put the sub in the trunk. :thumbdwn:


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## jgrgnt (Apr 27, 2002)

tgravo2 said:


> *I have to disagree, the bose systems in the Nissans are very nice I think, I drove an Altima today with the bose system and It was so much nicer than my H/K *


Hmmm, for me, the Bose systems in the Altima and G35 were overly bright and not particularly powerful in the lower bass registers, save for the all-too-common (and annoying) bass "hump" around 50hz. When I auditioned the H/K at the dealer, I experienced quite the opposite: very warm, laid back sound (perhaps too laid back, as I found it lacked detail).

Also, it's not just sound quality. Nissan charges quite a bit for their upgraded systems. For instance, the optional Bose in last year's Maxima cost $1100. :yikes: Not exactly cheap, if you ask me.


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## jetset (Apr 1, 2003)

Just put a very clean(expensive A class) amp instead of factory HK one. Replace rear speakers with mb quarts. Your done. Better system , no bad cross overs , good bass .

Try it your like the results.

rgds
MM


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## Chaaaosss (Feb 9, 2003)

Any chance BMW went and fixed this on the 2004 iteration of the coupes?

Wishful thinking I realize.


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## pmb1010 (Aug 26, 2002)

The Bose system in (now my wifes, previously mine) 2001 Audi A4 is (in my opinion) much better than the (came with the car I had no choice) HK system in my BMW.

Vic
i


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## jean7of9 (Jan 2, 2003)

I have been driving my Canadian 03 330xi with HK for three weeks now and had ample time to test the HK. I find it worth the money. However if you are testing a E46 with HK just make sure that DSP button (it has a speaker pictogram) is pressed in order to obtain the best sound reproduction. This system is ideal to listen to all sorts of music, but if you are looking to blow your neighbours or other car out with bass then get stronger subs. I also have a MB E320 4matic with standard sound system which I find is is much inferior to HK. had the chance to compare the HK to the ML in a 03 E300, I liked the genuine sound of HK better.


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## akula57 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Sound not that good...*

Sorry, but the premium sound system - as with that in most cars - doesn't sound as good as my Bose clock radio - about $350. Yes, cars are diffcult but one can get good sound for a price.

The system needs better speakers and more power. Subwoofer is optional. If you want good sound - put excellent speakers in the kick panel, use a good amp, put a sub in the trunk and remove the rear speakers (so the sub can be better heard and felt).


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## theresa (Mar 18, 2002)

I just came back from the dealer, and I'm just plain upset. I queued a song up that I knew would have the rear deck rattling away. I heard it rattling and the guy just said, "I don't heard it." I explained that it was plain as day, but he disagreed with me and couldn't find any reason to investigate further. He knows of no such problem with other BMWs with HK systems. I ended up making an appointment for next week to have it looked at closer, but I'm skeptical about their commitment to actually doing warranty work. These are the same guys that said the discoloration on my grey leather seat was because I wear shorts too much. I had to twist their arms to replace the leather. Anyway, does anyone have suggestions on what to do when I take it in? What song should I have ready that's completely obvious that there's a problem?


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

*Fading audio*

Hey while on the HK subject, does anyone here have the fading problem with it. On my '03 Topaz 330i the bass and som aspects of stereo sound would fade out and back in unexpectedly. It almost sounded like it would go into mono and no bass for a couple of seconds and then back. Has anyone else gotten this issue with the newer 330's or 325's? Anyone had it resolved? I want to know if I should expect this on my 330i ZHP.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

*Re: Fading audio*



GeoTopaz330i said:


> *Hey while on the HK subject, does anyone here have the fading problem with it. On my '03 Topaz 330i the bass and som aspects of stereo sound would fade out and back in unexpectedly. It almost sounded like it would go into mono and no bass for a couple of seconds and then back. Has anyone else gotten this issue with the newer 330's or 325's? Anyone had it resolved? I want to know if I should expect this on my 330i ZHP. *


Mine doesn't do that. I think it is just a unique problem on your 330i. You should bring back to the dealer and have them fix it under warranty.


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: Re: Fading audio*



mkh said:


> *Mine doesn't do that. I think it is just a unique problem on your 330i. You should bring back to the dealer and have them fix it under warranty. *


Nah, it is not a unique problem. There has been many a thread on this issue with the sept-nov production 330's. Many other people have or had this issue. I sold the car already, but am worried about this occuring in my 330i that's on order.


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

ff said:


> *Anyone with a 2002 or newer E46, with the HK sound system, who is baffled with how poor it sounds? Anyone with a pre-2002 E46 that thinks their system sounds fine? *


Interesting you should say this. I have an '01 330i with HK that I think sounds very respectable for the price.

I was recently evaluating an '02 with HK and it sounded very different in comparison. I attempted to correct some with the bass and treble settings and couldn't get it to produce the "presence" that my system creates. There was definitely a considerable difference in how each system sounds. :dunno:


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

i've had the hk for several days now and i give it maybe 6 out of a 10. it sounds good when i listen to classical and jazz but when i listen to trance there is neither bass nor treble.

i love the bose system in the I30, the HK is so-so.


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## ScottW (Oct 23, 2003)

I just sold a 2000 323Ci with HK and bought a 2004 330i with HK. The sound quality in the 323Ci blows away the 330i. I can't get over how much the HK system sucks in the 330i. The sound is muffled, with no clarity whatsoever. The 323Ci was very crisp - maybe not the best ever but definitely good. I've yet to run across any threads here or at bimmer.org that give definitive fixes for this crappy sound problem, whether it be a new amp + speakers, some hidden sound menu with tweaks etc - anyone have any thoughts to improve this muffled junk-system I'd be happy to hear them .


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

sp330i said:


> Interesting you should say this. I have an '01 330i with HK that I think sounds very respectable for the price.
> 
> I was recently evaluating an '02 with HK and it sounded very different in comparison. I attempted to correct some with the bass and treble settings and couldn't get it to produce the "presence" that my system creates. There was definitely a considerable difference in how each system sounds. :dunno:


They definitely changed something from the 2001 model to the 2002+. My first BMW was a 2002 330i (one of the first off the line of the 2002's) and must have used remaining 2001 parts. That system sounded better than any I've heard. Everything since then sounds muffled, and with next to no bass.

An interesting thing, we took a trip down to Florida in Dec with my 2003 330, and for the first time the system sounded great. Bass was full and clear. I actually had to turn the bass down quite a bit, because there was too much. The difference? The trunk was full-to-the-top with luggage. Naturally, a speaker changes sound characteristics when its enclosure changes. And this is what happened. They sounded fantastic! The speakers in the rear deck are evidently designed for a baffled or smaller enclosure.


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

My h/k "badged" system sounds great   :eeps:


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

since my last post, my h/k has also developed the rattle from the front right. it doesn't bother me enough (yet) for me to take it in.


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## 330Legend (Feb 9, 2004)

*good but not great*

I seem to remeber that there was amp upgrade for the HK system that came standard on my '04 but had to requested for prior years. I have heard alot of complaints about the speaker buzzing but fortunately, I haven't experienced that problem (yet?) But I had a monsoon system in my '01 Pontiac Grand AM GT that was totally superior to this system. It had a graphic equalizer instead of the bass/treble controlls and was a richer sound with better radio reception. I agree that a for a $40,000.00 car the stereo should be alot better.


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## BlackIce (Jan 8, 2004)

BWM has one of the crappiest sound system in the world, for a luxury car! I think the stock system in my Camry sounds better than my stock system in 330CI, which is sad! I think the head unit is decent, but the amp and speakers gotta go! I just upgraded mine to Dynaudio components and Zapco amp and the difference is night and day, no comparison!

I know Harmon International makes some of the best hi-end components in the world for home system but when it comes to car system, they just plain sucks! I dont think BMW put any effort or research into this department. Save your money by not upgrading to H/K System, with the money saved, you can get a killer system for that price!

You wont know how crappy H/K is until you hear a good system! There are many great DIY to do this. I spend around $1,500.00 and do everything myself, and this is probably the best $1,500.00 I ever spent on an upgrade! :thumbup:


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

BlackIce said:


> I know Harmon International makes some of the best hi-end components in the world for home system but when it comes to car system, they just plain sucks!


Actually, they make some of the nicest quality low-end components on the market. If you can buy it at Circuit $hitty or Worst Buy, then it's not high-end.


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

ff said:


> Actually, they make some of the nicest quality low-end components on the market. If you can buy it at Circuit $hitty or Worst Buy, then it's not high-end.


Actually, Harmon International has many different divisions including well known names JBL, Infinity, and many others. They are so-so to maybe above average products. However, they also have Revel and Mark Levinson, which make tremendously well built and quality sounding products. They also find themselves at the high end, too.


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

ff said:


> Actually, they make some of the nicest quality low-end components on the market. If you can buy it at Circuit $hitty or Worst Buy, then it's not high-end.


In there day, HK home stuff was tremendous :thumbup: Late 80s I had an amp at college that survived much pounding, spilt beer, etc :eeps: My upstairs set up to this day is driven by an HK "35 watt" receiver, I bought it and a pair of Bose 401s (also when they had decent home stuff) back in 1988 after a successful trip to Atlantic City :bigpimp:


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## K1 (Mar 8, 2002)

ff said:


> Actually, they make some of the nicest quality low-end components on the market. If you can buy it at Circuit $hitty or Worst Buy, then it's not high-end.


Yup -you can buy Infinity at Circuit City but still Harman International's Infinity has high-end speakers that will kick the crap out of almost any high-end speaker on this planet that you can come up with.

How many high-end speakers can you count that can top the notorious $60,000 Infinity Rerefence Standard V (http://oellerer.net/infinity_classics/IRS/body_irs.html) speakers... ?!

*Infinity Reference Standard V:*


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

I'm satisfied.

A few read shelf rattles on heavy bass though, not too bad.


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## ScottW (Oct 23, 2003)

Thing is, the HK system in the 2000 E46 was a lot better (more clarity, less muffled) than the 2004 E46 HK system, so what changed?


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

K1 said:


> Yup -you can buy Infinity at Circuit City but still Harman International's Infinity has high-end speakers that will kick the crap out of almost any high-end speaker on this planet that you can come up with.
> 
> How many high-end speakers can you count that can top the notorious $60,000 Infinity Rerefence Standard V (http://oellerer.net/infinity_classics/IRS/body_irs.html) speakers... ?!
> 
> *Infinity Reference Standard V:*


Ok... where's is the _apartment_ that goes with that speaker's price?


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## K1 (Mar 8, 2002)

Have: $60,000 high-end speakers Want: a matching apartment... :eeps: Don't know Technic -but Manhattan's upper east side would have a lot of apartments that would more than match.

Anyway back to the subject.

I am looking into changing my H/K front speakers with these from Orion:
*Orion P-series 3-ohm speakers*










http://www.orioncaraudio.com/component/pseries.asp. These are 3-ohm speakers like the H/K speakers... -very difficult to find 3-ohm speakers. These are not cheap - but should be in the same sound quality class as comparable A/D/S speakers (that is what I have heard) :dunno: .

I am just not sure if it is the H/K amplifier or the H/K speakers that mostly needs to be upgraded. Want to keep the car as "stock" as possible this time -so I am reluctant to do a full ICE upgrade if an speaker upgrade can improve the sound significantly.

Comments anyone?!


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

The H/K in my wife's coupe sounds like crap, I actually like the regular system in my touring better!!


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

BlackIce said:


> BWM has one of the crappiest sound system in the world, for a luxury car! I think the stock system in my Camry sounds better than my stock system in 330CI, which is sad! I think the head unit is decent, but the amp and speakers gotta go! I just upgraded mine to Dynaudio components and Zapco amp and the difference is night and day, no comparison!
> 
> I know Harmon International makes some of the best hi-end components in the world for home system but when it comes to car system, they just plain sucks! I dont think BMW put any effort or research into this department. Save your money by not upgrading to H/K System, with the money saved, you can get a killer system for that price!
> 
> You wont know how crappy H/K is until you hear a good system! There are many great DIY to do this. I spend around $1,500.00 and do everything myself, and this is probably the best $1,500.00 I ever spent on an upgrade! :thumbup:


I think what it barrels down to is this: those of us who have, in the past, forked out semi serious to serious money on sound systems find that even the HK "upgraded" system is, for the most part, crap. Maybe in earlier model years it got by, but not lately.

BMW clearly does not put as much value into having decent sound systems as other high end manufacturers. I know I keep harping on this, but what do you expect from a company that didn't even offer a cd player as OEM until a couple of years ago?

That being said, I think that BMW is targetting a different type of buyer than say, Lexus.

I am not expecting great things from the HK system, and that's why my discount takes it into account.


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

AJAX said:


> That being said, I think that BMW is targetting a different type of buyer than say, Lexus.


not necessarily. :eeps:


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

after this thread re-surfaced a couple of days ago, i paid some attention to the sound of my h/k, and i can't get over how terrible it is.. it sounds like i have a pair of earplugs on (as far as clarity and treble goes)


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## captaindrewle (Nov 19, 2002)

I was just listening to an old CD (Chemical Brothers) on my way home today -- first time I've listened to it in my '03 330Ci. I have to say that I was disappointed in the sound quality. I had to turn the bass down a few notches to try to get rid of the muffled sound. And I'm no 'bass head,' but the bass was not even kicking as much as my old '98 Jetta's stock system.

On the other hand, I haven't experienced any rattles or other annoyances from playing my music loud. Since the HK was stock in the 330, I personally didn't have any expectations for the sound system when I bought the car. So I'm not upset, but not impressed either.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

Matthew330Ci said:


> after this thread re-surfaced a couple of days ago, i paid some attention to the sound of my h/k, and i can't get over how terrible it is.. it sounds like i have a pair of earplugs on (as far as clarity and treble goes)


Here's a test: fill the trunk with a suitable baffle material, like cotton batting, or insulation, and see the difference that makes.


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## K1 (Mar 8, 2002)

Anyone heard of this product http://www.mileageman.com/pages/AddAmp.htm that is suppose to make it possible to add an aftermarket amp to H/K system without cutting wires!?  :dunno:


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## Boston Bimmer (Feb 7, 2004)

Having listened to many high end factory car stereos, i can say without hesitation that the 3 series H/K system is the worst I have ever experienced. I speakers distort at moderated volumes, and the nodal overtones in the car points to the fact that the audio system is poorly engineered. The bass is muddy and the midrange is all but absent.
I bought the car for the ride, but after a few days wished i did not waste the $$ on the stereo


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## jk330i (Aug 13, 2002)

Mine sounds like a 4 speaker system with half of a bass. The only thing sleek about it and not worth mentioning, is the bling bling "HK" words inscribed on the rear panel speakers.


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## K1 (Mar 8, 2002)

Boston Bimmer said:


> Having listened to many high end factory car stereos, i can say without hesitation that the 3 series H/K system is the worst I have ever experienced. I speakers distort at moderated volumes, and the nodal overtones in the car points to the fact that the audio system is poorly engineered. The bass is muddy and the midrange is all but absent.
> I bought the car for the ride, but after a few days wished i did not waste the $$ on the stereo


... and I am almost willing to change car brand just to get a "stock" sound system that I can stand hearing... seriously.


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