# SCCA Autox at FedEx Field



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Here's a link to a gallery of pics that my sons and I took out at the SCCA national event at Fedex Field this past Saturday. Along with the event, we got to see other 'festers. In the gallery you'll see Pinecone's LTW, along with a gratuitious shot of Bren's and my M3s gracing the parking lot (rather than the track). Unfortunately, pictures of Clyde's RX-8 didn't come out, and we had to leave before Nick325xiT's heat.

http://alextbaum.smugmug.com/gallery/128968/1/4665340

Alex


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

No good pics of clyde's RX-8.  Oh well.

I'll do a write up later (preview: I sucked). Still too tired, and right about to go out to a late breakfast with the family.


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Me too. On saturday I didn't suck TOO much (i.e. I was consistent with the performance of the other local folks in A-Stock), but on Sunday my performance fell through the floor.

Dammit.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

·clyde· said:


> No good pics of clyde's RX-8.  Oh well.
> 
> I'll do a write up later (preview: I sucked). Still too tired, and right about to go out to a late breakfast with the family.


Ok Clyde. Here's a bad one. (Bad picture of nice car...)










Alex


----------



## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

here're more pix

fed ex 2004


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Ahhh, I knew that Axis of oversteer sticker on the hood of those cars looked familiar :rofl: 


Was the course as fast on Sunday, or did they tighten it up?


----------



## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

bren said:


> Ahhh, I knew that Axis of oversteer sticker on the hood of those cars looked familiar :rofl:
> 
> Was the course as fast on Sunday, or did they tighten it up?


Faster, many of the turns opened up instead of closing in....the whole event was fantastic. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Faster! Wow, that's hard to believe. Some of those sections on Sat. were already startlingly fast. I'm sorry that I missed out on running in the event


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The fact that they were faster is probably why I was so slow Sunday. I just couldn't get it right and ended up VERY slow.


----------



## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

Hey, I know him!! Looks like Alex pulled off another 1st place finish in DSP!! :thumbup: He'll be down there again next weekend for the Pro Solo.


----------



## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

Andy said:


> Hey, I know him!! Looks like Alex pulled off another 1st place finish in DSP!! :thumbup: He'll be down there again next weekend for the Pro Solo.


those DSP e30's were really cool and very fast! :thumbup:


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Andy said:


> Hey, I know him!! Looks like Alex pulled off another 1st place finish in DSP!! :thumbup: He'll be down there again next weekend for the Pro Solo.


That guy's rear wheelwell was doing a good job of shaving the edges off his tires.


----------



## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

AC said:


> those DSP e30's were really cool and very fast! :thumbup:


I couldn't agree more!! Alex is one heck of a good driver too!!



bren said:


> That guy's rear wheelwell was doing a good job of shaving the edges off his tires.


Yup, he's known for that. He had to do quite a bit of fender work to fit that much rubber up under there. Although, looking at the pic from DC, it appears he's gone with a bigger wheel, 17s, 18s maybe? I can't tell, but I have not seen that wheel/tire combo on his car yet.

Here's a close up of his previous wheel/tire combo... pretty tight!!


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

·clyde· said:


> No good pics of clyde's RX-8.  Oh well.
> 
> I'll do a write up later (preview: I sucked). Still too tired, and right about to go out to a late breakfast with the family.


Hey, I resemble that remark. The "I sucked one." 

The car ROCKS. But I just haven't had enough seat time on the Ho-hos to find the limits
. The first day the car thought it was out for a Sunday grandmother fdrive. I kept pushing it harder and harder each run, it it sjust seemed to be saying" so, are we going to actually go fast or what." 

Sunday was better, I got the car working in a few places, but stil not enough.

BUT, I wasn't DLF.


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

We all had our issues.

I dug myself a hole out there on Saturday that there was no recovering from. Didn't expect to catch Lee (we are at a significant horsepower and weight disadvantage but his DRIVING won the class), but I did expect to be closer to the car owner and Mike in Lee's car. 

It was a very humbling experience, finished 4th, just .074 out of third.  

Next time I'll try looking ahead. I hear that is a good thing to do. Anyone ever heard that before? :eeps:


----------



## kenkamm (May 31, 2003)

I loved the course, both forward and backward. 

Saturday I was something like 3 seconds off the pace of the fastest E46 M3 driver, but somehow Sunday I did a lot better and was a half a second faster than the fast E46 M3 from Saturday. Nick and I had a great battle going on... it was a blast. I can't wait to get on some better tires. I'm sick of competing against guys on Hoosiers with my Ecstas. 

Thank God I got that GC sway bar on before the event... the car can slalom pretty well now. What a transformation from that simple mod! :thumbup:

Ken


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

kenkamm said:


> I loved the course, both forward and backward.
> 
> Saturday I was something like 3 seconds off the pace of the fastest E46 M3 driver, but somehow Sunday I did a lot better and was a half a second faster than the fast E46 M3 from Saturday. Nick and I had a great battle going on... it was a blast. I can't wait to get on some better tires. I'm sick of competing against guys on Hoosiers with my Ecstas.
> 
> ...


Ken,

Was yours the other Mystic E46 or the PY E46?

Alex


----------



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

kenkamm said:


> I loved the course, both forward and backward.
> 
> Saturday I was something like 3 seconds off the pace of the fastest E46 M3 driver, but somehow Sunday I did a lot better and was a half a second faster than the fast E46 M3 from Saturday. Nick and I had a great battle going on... it was a blast. I can't wait to get on some better tires. I'm sick of competing against guys on Hoosiers with my Ecstas.
> 
> ...


Bah.

Real men run on street tires.


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

kenkamm said:


> Thank God I got that GC sway bar on before the event... the car can slalom pretty well now. What a transformation from that simple mod! :thumbup:
> 
> Ken


I am really going to need a second job


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

SoloII///M said:


> Next time I'll try looking ahead. I hear that is a good thing to do. Anyone ever heard that before? :eeps:


:hi:

Yes, this is one of those things that takes a lot of practice. I don't look far enough ahead on a daily basis, and when it comes to an event, I often find myself not looking far enough ahead. Case in point, MRIU this year. First run, not looking ahead near the course finish and plow a few cones for being on a bad line. Look ahead better the next time and it was like the sea had parted.

So yeah, I'm right with you. Need to look ahead better every time I'm in *any* car so looking ahead -- for me -- becomes the norm and not something I need to remind myself.

It's amazing how bad habits can develop over time.


----------



## kenkamm (May 31, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Ken,
> 
> Was yours the other Mystic E46 or the PY E46?
> 
> Alex


Neither.  Mine's Silver, with the gunmetal OEM 18s.

(pic from April 18th SCCA event):









Ken


----------



## kenkamm (May 31, 2003)

SoloII///M said:


> Next time I'll try looking ahead. I hear that is a good thing to do. Anyone ever heard that before? :eeps:


The hills added another level of difficulty to looking ahead. I think there were a few areas that threw me off because it wasn't possible to see over the crests. Wasn't the finish on Sunday kind of like that? That last left-hander is fuzzy in my memory... like you couldn't see how wide you really could go after the pointer until you were almost there...

(...or maybe I just failed to look.) :eeps:

Ken


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

So frustrating to finish a run and realize that you just weren't looking ahead far enough. I kept repeating that theme throughout the weekend and for some reason I just didn't do it. I really will be happy to get back in my own car again...


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Witness my poor driving on Sunday in all its glory...

Man was I far from the cones, and my driving was far too tentative.

http://nrubenstein.dreamhost.com/20040529%20National%20Tour%20Run%202.WMV


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

bren said:


> I am really going to need a second job


No kidding. Figuring that the new Ho-ho SO4s will get 50 runs, that works out to a little over $4 per run PER TIRE. And that's for the 245/40-17s on the LTW.

The ones for the E46 are even more expensive per run.

But the other bad news is, the hotter tip for the E36 is 18" wheels.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SoloII///M said:


> So frustrating to finish a run and realize that you just weren't looking ahead far enough. I kept repeating that theme throughout the weekend and for some reason I just didn't do it. I really will be happy to get back in my own car again...


I resemble that remark also.

Although the whole weekend, most of the time I WAS looking ahead. Just not pushing the car hard enough.

Time for an Evolution Challenge School on the Hoosiers.

But I did have fun. The course was awesome, but in some ways un-balanced, in that it din't have any real slow spots. To me, and autocross should have slow spots, you know, ones where you have to consider 1st, even if you don't actually downshift.


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

·clyde· said:


> I'll do a write up later (preview: I sucked). Still too tired, and right about to go out to a late breakfast with the family.


Here's an overview...

Friday was kinda fun. I got there in the early afternoon and watched a little of people doing the practice course, but didn't buy any tickets to run it myself. Mostly, I just sort of hung out with people I knew and met a bunch of new people (many of them courtesy of TeamZ4, who codrove my car at the event). In the evening, I got the wheels changed, put the car through tech and registered. Then I walked the course three times. It looked long and fast and very fun. I left my car there and Nick gave me ride home.

I got there early on Saturday and walked it a couple more times. Then there was the drivers meeting, followed by an extremely long wait for the grid sheets which should have clued us all in to how many delays we would face throughout the day. B Stock was in the first heat and I'd like to say that I drove so sh:tty was that the tires never got up to temp, it would be a lie. I just drove like absolute crap. Seriously, it felt like it was my worst outing in the car by far (later confirmed by my tracking spreadsheet) . I didn't come close to performing at my normal, mediocre level. It was a 64 second course and my best was a 69. TeamZ4 beat me by over two seconds and it was his first time in the car. I was 5 seconds off the BS leader, and I was surprised it wasn't more. I was just bad (and not in a Jules type "bad motherfcuker" kind of way). I sucked on my first run and only sucked a little less on the following two. The competition at the front of BS was pretty intense with just .5 seconds separating 1st and 5th (in a class of 16).

I hung my head in shame the rest of the long day. They didn't finish the sixth and final heat until after 8pm. I think they expected to be done by 5pm. I worked the fourth heat. They sent us out there and it was 30 minutes until the first car went off. Never heard what that delay was about. The walkthroughs of the Sunday course got started after dark. It was mostly the same course being run in reverse but there were some changes...changes that were being made after the walkthroughs started.

Sunday morning I got to the site early and walked it pretty quickly twice. Then I sat down and drove it in my head about 20 times. Got up and walked it twice more. Aside from a short hiccup where someone forgot to change the start and finish light wires, things got off almost on time and the day ran very smoothly compared to Saturday. Our grid spot really sucked on Sunday though (same spot as Saturday). We were near the four portapotties covering all ~360 entrants + their "support" personnel and they hadn't been emptied overnight after being filled before the end of Saturday's portion of the event. The important thing was that my driving improved a lot and I turned in a more normal mediocre performance. I was calm and relaxed and had done a better job of visualization than I had on Saturday. I still need to learn to drive the car.

Overall, I learned a lot. Most important...if possible, work the gate Friday morning for two hours and be done with my work assignment for the weekend.  DC region autocrossers have not cornered the market on friendliness or helpfulness. It's great to see that it's something that appears to be nearly universal. Getting your ass stomped by good drivers is a good thing (at least once or twice). It was a great and eye opening experience and I'm looking very forward to the ProSolo this coming weekend (I just hope my body recovers in time...my back is stiff as a board now).

Finally, I want to say thanks to pinecone and Mrs. pinecone for the hospitality tent, company, commentary and everything else. Thanks to bren for moral support and trying to throw light on a situation in the dark. Thanks to Nick for the rides Friday and Sunday, the diet Sprites and help packing tires. And also, a big thanks to TeamZ4 for a bunch of things like not embarrassing me too bad in my own car, throwing yourself into trying to get the rear shocks adjusted, suggestions on setup, guidance on stupid little procedural things. As good as the weekend would have been without you, you guys made it even better for me.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

So how were your times on Sunday?

In comparison to the top of BS? Mark?


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

racerdave said:


> So how were your times on Sunday?
> 
> In comparison to the top of BS? Mark?


 Sunday's course had a fast BS time of 56.5 to my 59.2. Mark's times? Well, uh, he had some trouble keeping it between the cones on Sunday. His best raw time was a 58.7.

One of the things that I really liked on Sunday was that there is a local guy that I beat for the first time (in the RX-8) and he said that he felt like he drove as well as he normally did. I got in spitting distance of another local guy that I've been chasing, but he felt like he had an off day.

FWIW, compared to the 37 locals that I'm tracking myself against which competed this weekend, I was 98.9% as fast as the average time. On Sunday, I was 101.7% as fast as the average. My improvement versus two of the other BS drivers I'm tracking (that ran BS in the event) was right about the same percentage. The third driver is the one that felt he had an off day on Sunday. I went from being 93% as quick on Saturday to 99.7% on Sunday.


----------



## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

·clyde· said:


> Here's an overview...


Great write up Clyde. I'm glad to hear Sunday went a little better. Sounds like our weekends were very similar.



racerdave said:


> So how were your times on Sunday?
> 
> In comparison to the top of BS? Mark?


Saturday's results:
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/solo-04dctour-sat.pdf

Sunday's results:
http://www.scca.com/_Filelibrary/File/solo-04dctour-sun.pdf


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

Mark had issues :angel: :eeps: 

actually the car has a lot of oversteer and when pushed hard in the slaloms it would get a little crazy or being the first driver out on cold rear tires  we dialed a lot of it out with air pressures, but really needed to change the rear shock settings. We tried to do this Sat evening, but discovered it was going to require dropping the rear control arms and it was quickly getting dark so that didn't happen. My Sun. raw times don't show the cars potential as tires were cold on the first run, on my 2nd run I was absolutely blitzing and even made it past the slalom that caught me on my later runs when a downed cone was right in the middle of the line so I had no option but to stop for a rerun  , then on my rerun I coasted a ways after getting sideways and hitting the slalom pylon, did the same thing on my 3rd run but coasted past the next slalom cone so DNF. IMO Clyde's RX8 was easily capable of a 57 sec run on Sunday's course, I just didn't get the job done  All the cones I hit Sat were also getting crossed up in the slaloms, and even on my last run just slowing down to get through clean rather than hitting cones and coasting resulted in a clean but faster time.

All in all, the RX8 is perhaps the most fun Stock class car I've ever driven. I love the handling even with the off-throttle oversteer which only requires some driver adaptation and suspension tuning. It's a monster in the sweepers, OMG if only my BMW would hang like that with the throttle planted all the way around :yikes:


----------



## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Witness my poor driving on Sunday in all its glory...
> 
> Man was I far from the cones, and my driving was far too tentative.
> 
> http://nrubenstein.dreamhost.com/20040529%20National%20Tour%20Run%202.WMV


That video's awesome! what kind of camera did you use? :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

here the video of my last run on Saturday

Amazing all the mistakes you see after the fact!


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

I'll give my more detailed writeup now that I'm not (for the moment) absolutely swamped here at work due to skipping most of friday :angel: 

The course really was incredible. Very similar to last year's DC tour course (I didn't run the tour last year, but we duplicated the course for a local event). I don't particularly like the lot - it bows up in the middle so essentially all of the course's turns are off camber, and several are blind. Looking ahead was important but tough.

I went out on my first run on Saturday thinking I should get to know the car (Matt Williams' BSP M3). I hadn't driven it before, except at the test and tune course, but it was impossible to get a feel for it on that short course. Bad strategy for the first run. I should have gone all out and at least got the tires warmer, but I didn't. Oh well. Car is a monster through, well, everything. It's a very mildly prepared BSP car - basically bars, H&R springs, camber plates and Konis on wide wheels and 255/40 Kumhos. 

My first two runs were clean but slow (low 66). My third run I realized I had to push the car hard and produce - I ran a 64.861, about .93 off the car owner and significantly back from the leader who ran a 63.5xx. I went home knowing that I hadn't pushed the car enough, I wasn't getting on the gas early enough and I wasn't carrying enough speed through the slaloms.

Sunday I changed my strategy and went out to warm the tires on my first run. Ran a 57.57. I felt pretty good about that as a first run, but the shocking thing is even going out to push the car ridiculously hard I didn't even come close to its limits. That 3 degrees of negative camber really wakes up an M3! My next run was a throwaway to try to find the edges of the car - the +3 next to the time indicates that I guess  My fourth run I cleaned up but went slower. I definitely had my problems out there, mostly not getting on the gas early enough and not being agressive enough. Having only three runs is tough!

Ended up fourth in a class of 14. Happy with the finish, unhappy with my driving. Next year, B Stock! :rofl: 

I had a great time, though. Looking forward to driving Clyde's RX-8 in two weeks especially after Mark's writeup on it. Sounds fun!!


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Clyde... sounds like you're getting there. :thumbup:

Clyde or Mark: So from the sound of the handling, were you going to take some rear rebound out of the 8?


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Clyde... sounds like you're getting there. :thumbup:
> 
> Clyde or Mark: So from the sound of the handling, were you going to take some rear rebound out of the 8?


no, it's on full soft, my plan is to put more in. IMO the oversteer issue is from the rear end hiking up too much and unloading the rear tires.

I'm trying to convince Clyde to let me do it this weekend, but he is resisting. You guys may have to hold him down while I perform the necessary surgery. Sometimes friend's have to do this for your own good. :angel:


----------



## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

Mark, John... great write ups!! I enjoyed reading them.

John, 4th place in BSP at a national event?!?! :yikes: I'm impressed!! Congratulations!! :thumbup: 

Mark, that's the most I've ever heard you talk about one of your events. You should do that more often... I enjoy reading them. I have a feeling you're going to cause a bunch of people to run out and bye an RX-8. :eeps: I can't wait to hear how the car does once it's dialed in.


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

TeamZ4 said:


> no, it's on full soft, my plan is to put more in. IMO the oversteer issue is from the rear end hiking up too much and unloading the rear tires.
> 
> I'm trying to convince Clyde to let me do it this weekend, but he is resisting. You guys may have to hold him down while I perform the necessary surgery. Sometimes friend's have to do this for your own good. :angel:


My brain was all mushy Saturday night and was not firing on all 8 cylinders (as if I had any to begin with ) so I didn't realize what I was seeing. When we unbolted everything as much as we did and the shock dropped down a little bit, it dropped far enough that looking through the trunk, I could see the adjustment tab at the top. I think there was enough room to get to it and turn it with pliers. If that's the case, we could have done them both Saturday night with the light that we still had. :banghead:

Something else I was wondering about a while ago that I had forgotten about...I saw a thread a while back on corner-carvers about remote shock adjustments. Might it be possible/worthwhile to try to fashion something that attached something like a speedometer cable to the adjustment tab at the top of the shock if there's enough room in that "box" (for lack of a better term) and then run the cable out from behind the trunk liner? I was thinking along the lines of a cable with a small gear at one end that would go to the shock. I would mesh that gear with another small one that would go on the adjustment tab that had a slot for the tab. Then, of course, the other end of the cable would have a knob of some kind to make the adjustment. I don't have my rulebook handy, but IIRC, it should be stock legal so long as I can't adjust them from the driver's seat, correct? :dunno:


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Andy said:


> Mark, John... great write ups!! I enjoyed reading them.
> 
> John, 4th place in BSP at a national event?!?! :yikes: I'm impressed!! Congratulations!! :thumbup:


In my honest opinion, John did not look very good on any of his runs through the long section of the course I worked both days compared to how he looks in his own car. WIth more seat time, I think he could have given Lee a real run for his money...and Lee was the course designer. 



> Mark, that's the most I've ever heard you talk about one of your events. You should do that more often... I enjoy reading them. I have a feeling you're going to cause a bunch of people to run out and bye an RX-8. :eeps: I can't wait to hear how the car does once it's dialed in.


One of the bigger problems that I've had this year is dealing with everyone and their friend asking me, "How do you like the car?" and, "How does the car run?" Frequently, after a quick answer, the next comment from these people is, "I've been thinking about one..." Seriously, it takes me twice as long to change my wheels as it should becuase of it. :eeps: There seems to be a lot of interest in the car, at least in the DC area. If the S2Ks go to AS next year...hoo boy. I don't have the experience to say this with certainty, but I really don't think that the 00-03 S2Ks totally outclass the RX-8 as it is. The S2Ks are fully developed and sorted now and people have been driving them for a while. I'm not sure that anyone other than Tim Pryor is really trying to develop a nationally comeptitive RX-8 yet...My budget and time avialability limits me to a pretty half assed effort.


----------



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

·clyde· said:


> My brain was all mushy Saturday night and was not firing on all 8 cylinders (as if I had any to begin with ) so I didn't realize what I was seeing. When we unbolted everything as much as we did and the shock dropped down a little bit, it dropped far enough that looking through the trunk, I could see the adjustment tab at the top. I think there was enough room to get to it and turn it with pliers. If that's the case, we could have done them both Saturday night with the light that we still had. :banghead:
> 
> Something else I was wondering about a while ago that I had forgotten about...I saw a thread a while back on corner-carvers about remote shock adjustments. Might it be possible/worthwhile to try to fashion something that attached something like a speedometer cable to the adjustment tab at the top of the shock if there's enough room in that "box" (for lack of a better term) and then run the cable out from behind the trunk liner? I was thinking along the lines of a cable with a small gear at one end that would go to the shock. I would mesh that gear with another small one that would go on the adjustment tab that had a slot for the tab. Then, of course, the other end of the cable would have a knob of some kind to make the adjustment. I don't have my rulebook handy, but IIRC, it should be stock legal so long as I can't adjust them from the driver's seat, correct? :dunno:


You could probably buy a couple of those flexible shaft adapters that they sell for Dremel tools and adapt those pretty easily.


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

·clyde· said:


> My brain was all mushy Saturday night and was not firing on all 8 cylinders (as if I had any to begin with ) so I didn't realize what I was seeing. When we unbolted everything as much as we did and the shock dropped down a little bit, it dropped far enough that looking through the trunk, I could see the adjustment tab at the top. I think there was enough room to get to it and turn it with pliers. If that's the case, we could have done them both Saturday night with the light that we still had. :banghead:
> 
> Something else I was wondering about a while ago that I had forgotten about...


There is an adjustment knob ON the shock? I thought you guys said the shock had to be disassembled :slap:

The cable operated adjuster sounds like a fun engineering project. My biggest concern would be with some of the posts that mention the Koni adjuster being very stiff and difficult to turn; it might just cause the cable to twist and bind without actually turning the knob.

I don't know about you guys but I am seriously looking forward to the Pro this weekend....and I'm not even driving. It's nice to finally have some decent weather and be able to hang out in the parking lots again


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

·clyde· said:


> You don't have much experience with the Koni knobs, do you? They don't work well enough for that to be a possibility.


Nope. I have adjustable shocks on the Jeep and the knobs are really easy to turn, plus the plastic knob part is already attached.

It's late and I'm bored....don't mind me


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

I can't offer anything but my sympathies and what little brainpower I have at the next event to try to solve the problem.

Still, I can't help but think that once you get them adjusted how you like them you probably won't touch them anymore. :dunno:


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

SoloII///M said:


> I can't offer anything but my sympathies and what little brainpower I have at the next event to try to solve the problem.


Well, at worst, it's only a matter of jacking the rear of the car, removing the rear wheels, removing part of the trunk liner, removing 5 or 6 bolts per side holding the shocks in place, prying the shocks of their lower mounts, letting the shocks down as far as they will go, back into the trunk, turn the tab (yes, I'm sure that they can be adjusted without fully removing them from the car) and put everything back together. It shouldn't take more than 45 minutes, tops, to do both sides.



> Still, I can't help but think that once you get them adjusted how you like them you probably won't touch them anymore. :dunno:


I mostly agree, but how many adjustments is it going to take until I get there? The other question is whether I'm ultimately going to want the same settings with the Hoosiers as I want with the street tires? :dunno:


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

SoloII///M said:


> I can't offer anything but my sympathies and what little brainpower I have at the next event to try to solve the problem.
> 
> Still, I can't help but think that once you get them adjusted how you like them you probably won't touch them anymore. :dunno:


Oh, come on...where is your adventurous spirit 

Every once in a while us gov't employees need to wake up our brains with over complicated solutions to simple problems


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

bren said:


> Oh, come on...where is your adventurous spirit


It's about what I'd expect from someone that lives in the hinterlands of Howard County...and likes it there. :bigpimp:


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

well my gut feeling is that 50% rebound setting will be a good compromise setting, as you go higher the rear ride quality will take a dump

since you use the same size tire front/rear on both street and race tires the race settings should still provide excellent handling with your street tires


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

OK, if you can get to the top of the shock, you can use one of those ratchets that turn by turning a T handle at the end of the normal handle. Like this:

http://amos2.catalogcity.com/amos/cc/main/catalog/pcd/5746192/prd/8207122/ccsyn/260

You would need to either have a special socket made to fit the Koni blade (try Ron Stygar on teh Z forum here), or have a nut attached to the Koni adjuster.


----------



## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> OK, if you can get to the top of the shock, you can use one of those ratchets that turn by turning a T handle at the end of the normal handle. Like this:
> 
> http://amos2.catalogcity.com/amos/cc/main/catalog/pcd/5746192/prd/8207122/ccsyn/260
> 
> You would need to either have a special socket made to fit the Koni blade (try Ron Stygar on teh Z forum here), or have a nut attached to the Koni adjuster.


See, Terry and I are on the same page....although neither of us has seen the trunk of the car


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

post a picture of it, that's one of those retarded "cookies mustbe enabled" sites :tsk:


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

TeamZ4 said:


> post a picture of it, that's one of those retarded "cookies mustbe enabled" sites :tsk:












You turn the T- handle on the end and the ratchet turns. So you don't have to have space to swing the rathchet..


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Well, testing is the only way to find out if it will help. 

My gut feeling (and past experience) says more rear rebound will *increase* trailing-throttle oversteer. But then again, that was for a mid-engined car.


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Well, testing is the only way to find out if it will help.
> 
> My gut feeling (and past experience) says more rear rebound will *increase* trailing-throttle oversteer. But then again, that was for a mid-engined car.


having experienced the chassis dynamics firsthand I can assure you this isn't the case


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

I don't doubt it... just relaying my *very* limited shock experiments on a mid-engined car. 

I'm too busy now trying to figure out all the much lower-tech, but seemingly as limitless adjustments of my shifter kart.


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

racerdave said:


> I don't doubt it... just relaying my *very* limited shock experiments on a mid-engined car.
> 
> I'm too busy now trying to figure out all the much lower-tech, but seemingly as limitless adjustments of my shifter kart.


It was pretty apparent from watching Mark and Clyde drive that there wasn't enough rebound in the back. The rear end jacked WAY up. I'm guessing that made it pretty tail happy entering the corners.

John


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

yep, in certain situations but not in all turns, this is a case where adding rebound up to a point will actually keep the rear end planted better, IMO it felt like the the rear suspension was going toe-out when it jacked up like that and when you got into quick side-side transitions such as the slaloms is where would get pretty freaky, that's why I keep harping on you guys about tuning for the application at hand rather than using some general chart out of a book :nono:

still overall one of the best handling Stock cars I've ever driven, the styling was leaving me cold on those but now after driving it I've completely warmed up to it; the interior, seats, etc. are all nicely done, Mazda does know how to build a driving machine :thumbup:


----------



## SoloII///M (May 16, 2003)

TeamZ4 said:


> yep, in certain situations but not in all turns, this is a case where adding rebound up to a point will actually keep the rear end planted better, IMO it felt like the the rear suspension was going toe-out when it jacked up like that and when you got into quick side-side transitions such as the slaloms is where would get pretty freaky, that's why I keep harping on you guys about tuning for the application at hand rather than using some general chart out of a book :nono:
> 
> still overall one of the best handling Stock cars I've ever driven, the styling was leaving me cold on those but now after driving it I've completely warmed up to it; the interior, seats, etc. are all nicely done, Mazda does know how to build a driving machine :thumbup:


And I get to sample it on Sunday! Very excited...

-John


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

TeamZ4 said:


> still overall one of the best handling Stock cars I've ever driven, the styling was leaving me cold on those but now after driving it I've completely warmed up to it; the interior, seats, etc. are all nicely done, Mazda does know how to build a driving machine :thumbup:


Absolutely. The driving dynamics, the way the controls work together... the car is a joy. :thumbup:


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

SoloII///M said:


> And I get to sample it on Sunday! Very excited...
> 
> -John


 Be happy I remembered to send my check in on Saturday. As of five minutes ago, still showing as not paid. :eeps:


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

unfortunately with the rain and all at the Pro Solo we never had a chance to mess with the rear shocks this weekend


----------



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

I still have all week to get it done. Whether I get enough toddler free daylight time is another question...


----------

