# Would you buy a Mexican Built Audi?



## tagheuer (Jun 10, 2004)

Perhaps another win for BMW, now that Audi has committed to building cars in Mexico for the US market...:dunno:

Lots of people here lamented that they would never buy a US built BMW....and BMW exports lots of cars from South Africa too.

But it is interesting why BMW chooses not to export cars assembled in China, even though labor costs are lower there...is it because of status/reputation?

Will this hurt Audi, or will it help them by allowing increased profits, i.e. having the best of both worlds in the form a luxury brand being made in Mexico?

AFAIK no other "premium" brand makes cars in Mexico....do they?

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Just as we predicted, Audi has chosen Mexico as the site of their newest manufacturing plant. A specific site for the plant will be selected later in the year, with production of an unnamed SUV (said to be the Q5) starting in 2016.


While rivals such as Mercedes-Benz and BMW, Audi chose Mexico to capitalize on South America’s growing market (specifically Brazil) and to avoid a 10 percent duty levied against American built cars imported to Europe. Volkswagen was apparently pushing for their Chattanooga, Tennesse plant to stay close to suppliers and for marketing reasons (how about a “Made in America” Audi?).


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## johnc_22 (Sep 14, 2004)

Since they are producing SUVs there it won't affect my purchase decision at all.


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## T111 (Feb 24, 2012)

It's probably going to have a menial affect on quality if any. People there are trained and held to the same standards as the assembly techs in Germany...


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## MirtOfWaterdeep (Apr 10, 2012)

Cadillac Escalades are being built in Mexico, Except the Hybrid ones.


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## 1.fresh.f30.335 (Apr 10, 2012)

VW has had cars built in Mexico for over a decade, most of the kinks have been worked out... would I buy one, no, but the average consumer won't care in the slightest unless they fall apart.


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## justinnum1 (Nov 22, 2011)

1.fresh.f30.335 said:


> vw has had cars built in mexico for over a decade, most of the kinks have been worked out... Would i buy one, no, but the average consumer won't care in the slightest unless they fall apart.


+1


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## The X Men (Mar 21, 2012)

Definitely not a good thing, I would never spend $50K on a car built in Mexico.


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## tagheuer (Jun 10, 2004)

1.fresh.f30.335 said:


> VW has had cars built in Mexico for over a decade, most of the kinks have been worked out... would I buy one, no, but the average consumer won't care in the slightest unless they fall apart.


sure they have.

But my point is that none of the big 3, German luxury brands have.

And that is the reason I suspect BMW won't sell Chinese made BMWs in North America.

But that is why they move manufacturing there, becuase its cheaper.


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## WaxComb (Oct 11, 2011)

1.fresh.f30.335 said:


> VW has had cars built in Mexico for over a decade, most of the kinks have been worked out... would I buy one, no, but the average consumer won't care in the slightest unless they fall apart.


I think they'll be fine. Many people don't realize that these cars are produced using German processes, German managers, and German engineering. I talked with a number of German automotive suppliers last year, and they desperately needed people to manage factories in Mexico, India, and China.

VW/Audi has made poor quality products in the past, but that was due to bad cost management and not to building in Mexico.


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## ric124 (Mar 15, 2012)

Wait am I on vwvortex? Personally I have found the quality of the mexico build not as good as the German build. This could have been changed as my last 2 Vdubs have been Gti's and those are built in Germany.


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## The X Men (Mar 21, 2012)

tagheuer said:


> And that is the reason I suspect BMW won't sell Chinese made BMWs in North America.


But BMW sells South African built BMW in North America, I think thats even worst than Chinese built, at least China is a industrialized country.


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## Bob Shiftright (Feb 3, 2006)

tagheuer said:


> But it is interesting why BMW chooses not to export cars assembled in China, even though labor costs are lower there...is it because of status/reputation?


Probably because the Chinese market buys all the BMWs they can build there, and more. It's a huge market.

A not inconsequential problem that most import manufacturers have is the weak dollar. Sales are in US dollars but earnings are booked in Euros (or Yen). Better to have some South African BMWs and Mexican Audis in the mix than try to sell $100,000 German 3ers and $100,000 German A4s.

One of the minor attractors to the E91 was they were all German built and none were SULEVs.


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## M40i4me (Jan 16, 2011)

Bought my son a brand new Sentra ser specv in 2004 built in Mexico. Total piece of shat. The interior fell apart in 2 years including the glove compartment falling on the floor when you opened it after one week of ownership. Dealer tried to fix it 3 times. My two other Nissans built in Japan are flawless. Never again.


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## e39frank (Feb 18, 2012)

I wouldn't travel to Mexico to pick up the car.


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## SuperTerp (Dec 29, 2010)

e39frank said:


> I wouldn't travel to Mexico to pick up the car.


It would be fun! Instead of modding ECU's and getting power kits, you could get bullet proof glass, and panels :thumbup:


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## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

Xenophobic, much?

Buy a high end model like an S4 and they're always made in Germany.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

What's wrong with a Mexican Audi?

Isn't it the same as an American BMW (X5, X3)? or the same as a South African BMW? I've noticed nearly zero differences in build between a SA E90 and a German built one.

People need to chill out on where its made. It's not a big deal. In fact, the only VWs recommended by Consumer Reports are the Mexican-built Jetta and the American-built Passat


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

AutoUnion said:


> What's wrong with a Mexican Audi?
> 
> Isn't it the same as an American BMW (X5, X3)? or the same as a South African BMW? I've noticed nearly zero differences in build between a SA E90 and a German built one.
> 
> People need to chill out on where its made. It's not a big deal. In fact, the only VWs recommended by Consumer Reports are the Mexican-built Jetta and the American-built Passat


The difference for me is BMW has been building 3ers in SA for over twenty years and they didn't start out building them for the U.S. market; they grew into it. In addition, SA pretty much has their stuff together now. So, we're more than twenty years down the road and Mexico still can't find its way out of a wet paper bag.


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## sea6speed (Jun 14, 2010)

The X Men said:


> But BMW sells South African built BMW in North America, I think thats even worst than Chinese built, at least China is a industrialized country.


This comment had me laughing. You've gotta be really young if you think mainland China has a longer modern industrial history than South Africa. 15 years ago it was unusual to find Chinese goods for sale in the US that weren't made in Taiwan.


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## loosenit2 (Mar 27, 2012)

This thread is very interesting to me. To presume that a car made in Mexico, in a factory comparable to one in Germany, is less good than one made in Germany could only be explained by the quality of the workforce. Having lived in Germany I would offer that the average quality of labor in Germany is no better or worse than any other nation, what is important is engineering, manufacturing processes, quality control, and personnel management. If you believe in Audi then you have to believe that they will take care to ensure that the quality in the Mexican factory meets their standards, if you don't believe they will do that, then you don't believe in Audi and should consider another brand.. BMW has proven that can can have plants in the US, Africa, and Europe and still produce cars to the same standard.


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## Michael Schott (Dec 7, 2007)

Majikthese42 said:


> I've subscribed to CR for years! (The first time Consumer Reports actually _recommended_ a Porsche, I bought several copies and left them around the house opened to that page for my wife. It worked in the sense that she didn't vehemently object when I bought one. She did vehemently object a few years later when I thought it would be a _great_ first car for our daughter! But not when I bought it.)
> 
> If I narrow potential purchases down to cars that both CR and the car magazines say nice things about (cars like the Audi A3-A4-A5, the BMW 3-Series, the VW GTi and the Porsche 911). I've used this strategy for years, and it makes car shopping a whole lot easier! There is nothing more annoying than a car that's great on the road and spends a lot of time in the shop.
> 
> ...


Why would CR "not recommend" the Passat because it's too new? I don't know how they make these decisions but it doesn't seem fair to do this just because there's not enough data. They should just not rate it at all until they have sufficient information.

By the way both the new Jetta and Passat are well outselling their German made, higher priced predecessors. Whether or not we like the new models, VW has pegged the market and the sales success has proven them right.


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## m8o (Oct 18, 2009)

Answering the OP here.

Based on the experience a co-worker had w/his Mexican built VW, and what posters shared in this thread, the answer has to be a "NO" for me.


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## Bob Shiftright (Feb 3, 2006)

Michael Schott said:


> Why would CR "not recommend" the Passat because it's too new? I don't know how they make these decisions but it doesn't seem fair to do this just because there's not enough data. They should just not rate it at all until they have sufficient information.
> 
> By the way both the new Jetta and Passat are well outselling their German made, higher priced predecessors. Whether or not we like the new models, VW has pegged the market and the sales success has proven them right.


It's probably not "fair" to Volkswagen, but it wouldn't be fair to CR's readers to recommend a car if they have no clue as to the reliability. And the readers are paying them, not Volkswagen (unlike the enthusiast car mags.) I have no idea why Passat sales have been breaking records --- maybe it has something to do with $5 gasoline, the level of the US dollar and German VW and BMW prices?

CR often recommends a Japanese marque in it's first year, probably because past experience has shown that they often get it right the first time. But past history is that VW's reliability has been spotty, particularly in the first year.

Last time around, VW's QC scared the willies out of me and that's one reason I bought the BMW. Was it the correct choice? Dunno, it's a ball to drive, but my BMW's reliability has been disappointing. And if I have the most reliable BMW model made today, the chance of BMW selling me a 7-series when I need to revert to two-pedal driving is just about nil.


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## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

Majikthese42 said:


> It's probably not "fair" to Volkswagen, but it wouldn't be fair to CR's readers to recommend a car if they have no clue as to the reliability. And the readers are paying them, not Volkswagen (unlike the enthusiast car mags.) I have no idea why Passat sales have been breaking records --- maybe it has something to do with $5 gasoline, the level of the US dollar and German VW and BMW prices?


It's the same reason that F30 sales aren't going to total up to a whole lot compared to the more features, bigger engine, lower cost E90: price. You can get a Passat for $19,000. You can get a 43 MPG diesel Passat for $24,000. You can get it fully loaded for $28,000. And it's a lot nicer than an Accord or an Altima, which have gotten stale.


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## Michael Schott (Dec 7, 2007)

Majikthese42 said:


> It's probably not "fair" to Volkswagen, but it wouldn't be fair to CR's readers to recommend a car if they have no clue as to the reliability. And the readers are paying them, not Volkswagen (unlike the enthusiast car mags.) I have no idea why Passat sales have been breaking records --- maybe it has something to do with $5 gasoline, the level of the US dollar and German VW and BMW prices?
> 
> CR often recommends a Japanese marque in it's first year, probably because past experience has shown that they often get it right the first time. But past history is that VW's reliability has been spotty, particularly in the first year.
> 
> Last time around, VW's QC scared the willies out of me and that's one reason I bought the BMW. Was it the correct choice? Dunno, it's a ball to drive, but my BMW's reliability has been disappointing. And if I have the most reliable BMW model made today, the chance of BMW selling me a 7-series when I need to revert to two-pedal driving is just about nil.


A few comments.

1) Car magazines don't get paid by the manufacturers when they test their cars. C and D routinely gets pummeled for their love of BMW but BMW does not even advertise there at present.

2) CR should not even rate cars if they don't have a history to judge from.

3) I believe that the new Jetta and Passat are doing so well because they perceived as having German engineering along with a new lower price.

I agree on VW's spotty record for reliability though but it would not stop me from buying a new GTI or CC. They are the best handling driver's cars in their class.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Regarding Consumer Reports - it has been their policy for at least 30 years not to recommend the first year of a new model. Somewhere along the, as first year models became more reliable, they changed and started to recommend first year models of brands that had established a history of reliability. But that recommendation was not a gimmee. If they had reservations about a new model they might withhold the first year recommendation.

Something pretty amazing happened this year. *CR recommends the BMW F30 in its first year of production.* I've never seen them do that for any model that wasn't from a Japanese manufacturer.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

westwest888 said:


> It's the same reason that F30 sales aren't going to total up to a whole lot compared to the more features, bigger engine, lower cost E90: price. You can get a Passat for $19,000. You can get a 43 MPG diesel Passat for $24,000. You can get it fully loaded for $28,000. And it's a lot nicer than an Accord or an Altima, which have gotten stale.


First of all the F30 is not more expensive than an equivalently equipped E90. Second, the F30 has more standard equipment than the E90.

From the enthusiastic reception of the N20 I have observed here from the most die-hard, harshest critics of anything BMW ever changes, I predict the F30 is going to be a resounding success. I am still in utter shock at the lack of knashing of teeth over dropping the venerable inline six from the 328i.


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