# New Lexus IS



## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

New Lexus IS was revealed this morning at the Geneva Auto Show. Here are some specs and pics.


MODELS
IS350 RWD
IS250 RWD
IS250 RWD, 6 speed Manual
IS250 AWD, 6 Speed sequential shift Auto.

Std features
Smart Access
Optitron Instrument Cluster
Power Tilt/Telescopic Wheel
Audio, Bluetooth, Voice Activation and Display Controls on Steering Wheel
10-Way power seats with memory for driver and passenger
Wood and Metal trim interior
Dual Zone Auto Climate Control
Mini Plug accessory Connector
Illuminated Scuff Plates on door sills
AM/FM/CD, 13-speaker audio system

Options
Ventilated Seats
Touch Screen-Voice Activated Nav
Mark Levinson
Adaptive Cruise Control
Park Assist
Rain sensing Wipers with Headlamp washers
Power rear sunshade


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

..


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

...


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

I like everything but the way the mirrors are placed on the doors. Hopefully there can be a mirror relocation mod  .

I think the new IS will be a better competitor to the E90 than the previous edition was to the E46. The IS350 will have over 300hp, and there are rumors of its second year that it will be available in 6 speed. :eeps:


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

no IS430/450


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Yawn. I think. 

The old IS looked better to me--more compact, tighter package overall. This car looks like it's trying to be a Honda/Acura to my eyes. The rear view really makes me think TSX, and the front end just screams next gen. Prelude to me. The earlier photochops of the IS were better looking IMHO. Without taking the specs into consideration, I'd just assume that this car was meant to compete with Infiniti G35s and Acuras—I find it hard to imagine that someone seriously interested in an E90 would go for this instead.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

I agree about the visual, the styling does not flow, it looks like a bunch of different elements grafted together by Dr Frankenstein :thumbdwn:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

cantona7 said:


> I find it hard to imagine that someone seriously interested in an E90 would go for this instead.


I find it hard to consider the E90's bloated, boring looks compared to this cleaner, more interesting design. I'd probably still take an E46 w/ ZHP over this IS, but the E90, no way.

Once there's a 310 hp manual IS350 available for mid-high $30k, then the $45k E90 starts to look awfully overpriced.


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> I find it hard to consider the E90's bloated, boring looks compared to this cleaner, more interesting design. I'd probably still take an E46 w/ ZHP over this IS, but the E90, no way.
> 
> Once there's a 310 hp manual IS350 available for mid-high $30k, then the $45k E90 starts to look awfully overpriced.


 And that's perfectly fine. Obviously, if the E90 looks bloated/boring to you, then I'd guess you'd never be seriously interested in that car. In which case, the IS becomes a very serious contender. You're right that this IS has cleaner lines--the E90 has a more complex palette, which may or may not be a good thing. To me, the IS looks like Toyota has been caught in two minds--trying to get more stylish, but also clinging to their "safe and conservative" roots. The result, to me, is not terribly interesting or compelling.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

Dawg90 said:


> Once there's a 310 hp manual IS350 available for mid-high $30k,.


I'll believe it when I see it :dunno:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

TeamM3 said:


> I agree about the visual, the styling does not flow, it looks like a bunch of different elements grafted together by Dr Frankenstein :thumbdwn:


Agreed but I still want to drive it. The styling is the least important thing, IMHO. Size, drive-feel, responsiveness, etc are what I want. And Lexus tosses in something BMW can't fathom - reliability.

:thumbup: Here's to hoping the car matches an e46 for driving dynamics. If it can match my ZHP, I'll gladly defect to Lexus. Then I'll feel comfy owning the car, rather than leasing it.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Agreed but I still want to drive it. The styling is the least important thing, IMHO. Size, drive-feel, responsiveness, etc are what I want. And Lexus tosses in something BMW can't fathom - reliability.
> 
> :thumbup: Here's to hoping the car matches an e46 for driving dynamics. If it can match my ZHP, I'll gladly defect to Lexus. Then I'll feel comfy owning the car, rather than leasing it.


Yeah, I agree. I don't want a 5 series sized 'compact' sports sedan like the G35 or E90, and the IS is rumored to be not much larger than the old model. But it may be too much to hope for that Lexus maintains the old model's sportiness, we'll see.

If not, I'm gonna pick up a slightly used ZHP.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

cantona7 said:


> And that's perfectly fine. Obviously, if the E90 looks bloated/boring to you, then I'd guess you'd never be seriously interested in that car. In which case, the IS becomes a very serious contender. You're right that this IS has cleaner lines--the E90 has a more complex palette, which may or may not be a good thing. To me, the IS looks like Toyota has been caught in two minds--trying to get more stylish, but also clinging to their "safe and conservative" roots. The result, to me, is not terribly interesting or compelling.


To me it's the E90 that looks confused - like the Bangle elements were all watered down to avoid criticism. The front end is just awful, while the back screams GM. Perhaps like the 5 it will look better in person, but for over $40,000, I don't want to force myself to like any car.

But it's the size and expected price of the E90 that turns me off. If there were no used ZHP 330s w/ 15k miles for around $30k, then maybe I'd be forced to consider the E90.


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## chrono111 (Jun 1, 2004)

TeamM3 said:


> no IS430/450


Drop the V8 in and we'll talk. Why does this resemble the tC, especially the side profile. They took out all the unique components of the old IS, no I6, no chrono gauges, no sharp angle styling .. I liked those, it just needed some extra grunt. This new one looks less edgy, more bloated .. interior has moved to the generic lexus look although I like the guage package. I'll have to see how the is350 combined with the 6speed performs. I can't believe the new IS will match the ZHP in driving dynamics .. especially the market they are catering too.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

chrono111 said:


> Drop the V8 in and we'll talk. Why does this resemble the tC, especially the side profile. They took out all the unique components of the old IS, no I6, no chrono gauges, no sharp angle styling .. I liked those, it just needed some extra grunt. This new one looks less edgy, more bloated .. interior has moved to the generic lexus look although I like the guage package. I'll have to see how the is350 combined with the 6speed performs. I can't believe the new IS will match the ZHP in driving dynamics .. especially the market they are catering too.


I just read a review of the new GS430 and everbody is loving it. Maybe Lexus has woken up and decided the only way to dethrone BMW is to go for the jugular - ie the 3 series. I hope so! I want them to do to the 3 series exactly what the LS400 did to Mercedes in the 90s.

Lexus/Toyota are good at attacking a market. The IS300 was simply a euro transplant. I think this new one might be special and actually be a result of Toyota engineers really setting their target and attacking - sort of the way Infiniti did. Though the G35 is still not at 3 series levels, IMHO.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

chrono111 said:


> Why does this resemble the tC, especially the side profile.


That's exactly what I thought.

But I like it. It is far less unique detailwise than the SXE10 (current Altezza/IS). But the E90's lost some distinct styling cues too (nondistinct (Pontiac) kidney grille, non-angled dash, no 'cat's ear' taillights, no undercut bodyside crease) so that's just a trend in this segment, I guess; albeit the G35/Skyline facelift gained the classic Skyline round taillights.

Of course, 300+ Toyota V6 horsepower will be no match for 255 BMW L6 power on the road.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Of course, 300+ Toyota V6 horsepower will be no match for 255 BMW L6 power on the road.


The heavier GS300 w/ 245 hp does 0-60 in like 5.7 seconds, so a 300hp+, 200 lb lighter IS350 will be more than a match for the 330.

Bad news though, the new IS is 3.5 inches longer and 3 inches wider than the current model - so much for being compact.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Nice:



> The standard audio system, featuring 13 speakers and a 6-CD autochanger, will play MP3 and WMA files. The system also includes an auxiliary socket (installed in the console box) to enable a portable audio player to be plugged directly into the system. For customers wanting the best in the segment, Lexus offers a premium, 14 speaker, Mark Levinson® surround sound system. This unit can also be specified with an in-dash 6-disc DVD player.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

I think it looks good ... when is it coming out ?


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> It's a brand new series of aluminum V6s, with dual VVT-I, and direct injection in the 2.5 and 3.0L, but unconfirmed for 3.5L.
> 
> The 3.0L 245 hp version appears in the new GS300, while the 3.5L version is in the new Avalon, but without direct injection, so only 280 hp.
> 
> MPG should be very good, since the heavier Avalon and GS300 both get 22/30 mpg.


There is no 3.0L in the IS. Only 2.5L and 3.5L. Sorry to break it to you 

(atleast in the US market)

Check my first post in this thread for the info


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

What robg said. All of it.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> Generic Toyota product, it might as well be sold as the new Scion model...


Yeah-- it is a bit generic. But, I'm at the point now where i'm happy w/ "generic"-- i guess i'm just getting really tired of "ugly".


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Dawg90 said:


> It's a brand new series of aluminum V6s, with dual VVT-I, and direct injection in the 2.5 and 3.0L, but unconfirmed for 3.5L.
> 
> The 3.0L 245 hp version appears in the new GS300, while the 3.5L version is in the new Avalon, but without direct injection, so only 280 hp.
> 
> MPG should be very good, since the heavier Avalon and GS300 both get 22/30 mpg.


Are you sure it's the same engine family? I seem to recall reading that the Avalon is getting a brand-new, US-designed engine. I haven't read anything about the GS or IS engines to know if they're the same family or not. Toyota historically has often had 2 engines that seem to be the same but are not.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Kaz said:


> Are you sure it's the same engine family? I seem to recall reading that the Avalon is getting a brand-new, US-designed engine. I haven't read anything about the GS or IS engines to know if they're the same family or not. Toyota historically has often had 2 engines that seem to be the same but are not.


I'm also confused about their V6s. I remember reading that the GS350 is going to use an older engine design for atleast a year, and then switch over to a new engine family. Is the IS going to launch with the new-gen V6? Or is it the same one that its in the GS for its first year? I had thought that the "new gen" V6 was in the same family as the Avalon's, but that might be yet another V6 family.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

atyclb said:


> the hood has a bangle butt :rofl:


 :rofl:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

bavarian19 said:


> There is no 3.0L in the IS. Only 2.5L and 3.5L. Sorry to break it to you
> 
> (atleast in the US market)
> 
> Check my first post in this thread for the info


US release details are not confirmed yet, some sources have said a 3.0L might be offered. it makes perfect sense, since the gap between the 2.5 and 3.5 is like 100 hp.

I get all my info from is300.net where I'm a moderator.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

OK, so I did a little research. Don't take any of this as gospel, but basically it looks like Toyota has started down a Nissan-like path of adapting a single engine family for a bunch of applications.

All of the aforementioned engines are part of a new 'GR' engine family, that started with the 4.0l 1GR-FE introduced in the current 4Runner and now available on the new Tacoma. The 2nd, at least for the US market, is the 2GR-FE, the 3.5l in the new Avalon. The 3GR-FSE will be in the new GS300, and the IS250 will presumably have the 4GR-FSE. Both FSE engines have been available for a year or so in various JDM models.

Now, there is an addition and a change to Toyota engine nomenclature with these engines. Traditionally, the first number designated displacement (not in any direct relationship; just that a 6M and 7M, say, were both M engines but they were different sizes). The first letter is the engine family. If that letter had been used in the past, a 'Z' is added (M was the old L6 in 80s Cressida/Supras; MZ is the current V6 (Camry, RX, etc.)). The first letter after the dash indicated head design. F for high-swirl, narrow valve angle heads, made for fuel economy and torque, G for wide-angle, high-HP. The next letter indicated some special characteristic (T for turbo, Z for supercharger) and now S is new for direct injection. The last E is to indicate fuelinjection.

My guess is that the IS350 will have a RWD-ized 2GR, possibly upgraded from FE to FSE to get it over 300bhp.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

robg said:


> I'm also confused about their V6s. I remember reading that the GS350 is going to use an older engine design for atleast a year, and then switch over to a new engine family. Is the IS going to launch with the new-gen V6? Or is it the same one that its in the GS for its first year? I had thought that the "new gen" V6 was in the same family as the Avalon's, but that might be yet another V6 family.


The Avalon uses a 280 hp 3.5. That same 3.5 is supposedly (according to the IS freaks) getting itself into the IS too. Now there's lots of back and forth about if the IS will launch with the new 3.0 or just the smaller 2.5.

The new GS get a new V6 that makes 245 measely HP. Why they'd put a smaller, less powerful engine in the 42k GS is beyond me. I'm still trying to figure out how that makes sense.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=104584


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Are you sure it's the same engine family? I seem to recall reading that the Avalon is getting a brand-new, US-designed engine. I haven't read anything about the GS or IS engines to know if they're the same family or not. Toyota historically has often had 2 engines that seem to be the same but are not.


It's the same:

4GR-FSE . . . 2.5L V6 (201 hp) in the IS250 and Toyota Crown (Japan domestic market)
3GR-FSE . . . 3.0L V6 (245 hp) in the GS300, and possibly an IS300
2GR-FE . . . . 3.5L V6 (280 hp) in the Avalon (a version of the 4 Liter from the 4Runner)

The S in FSE stands for direct injection.

The last engine is headed for the IS350, but we don't know if it will include direct injection like the smaller FSE series engines.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The new GS get a new V6 that makes 245 measely HP. Why they'd put a smaller, less powerful engine in the 42k GS is beyond me. I'm still trying to figure out how that makes sense.


It's because there is a GS350 coming, initially in Japan, and possibly a year or two later in the US. That's not really logical, but that's what the plan is anyway.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> It's because there is a GS350 coming, initially in Japan, and possibly a year or two later in the US. That's not really logical, but that's what the plan is anyway.


Wouldn't that encroach on the GS V8's HP/torque numbers?


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

Alright, I'm getting a bit off the engine topic here, but is anyone else not a fan of the perforated leather seats?


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> US release details are not confirmed yet, some sources have said a 3.0L might be offered. it makes perfect sense, since the gap between the 2.5 and 3.5 is like 100 hp.
> 
> I get all my info from is300.net where I'm a moderator.


You mean my.IS?


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> It's the same:
> 
> 4GR-FSE . . . 2.5L V6 (201 hp) in the IS250 and Toyota Crown (Japan domestic market)
> 3GR-FSE . . . 3.0L V6 (245 hp) in the GS300, and possibly an IS300
> ...


It has to, since the hp is supposed to be like 315.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Wouldn't that encroach on the GS V8's HP/torque numbers?


Heh, yeah, except the V8 is going to 4.6L too, or something like that.  There are also rumors of a GT or hybrid.


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Toyota has dropped their last L6 (1JZ/2JZ) engines, unfortunately. BMW, Volvo and Daewoo are the only ones left.


Damn shame. . .their I-6 was a sweet engine. . .

-j


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> It's a brand new series of aluminum V6s, with dual VVT-I, and direct injection in the 2.5 and 3.0L, but unconfirmed for 3.5L.
> 
> The 3.0L 245 hp version appears in the new GS300, while the 3.5L version is in the new Avalon, but without direct injection, so only 280 hp.
> 
> MPG should be very good, since the heavier Avalon and GS300 both get 22/30 mpg.


Thanks for the info :thumbup: .

-j


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

the c pillar is way too thick. otherwise it looks fine.

it appears the 350 with a manual won't be available for at least 1 year after launch (if ever), kinda too late for me in replacing my current car..


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## woohoo (May 29, 2003)

I like it! I hope it drives well.


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## woohoo (May 29, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The new GS get a new V6 that makes 245 measely HP. Why they'd put a smaller, less powerful engine in the 42k GS is beyond me. I'm still trying to figure out how that makes sense.
> http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=104584


What about BMW's 525i? :dunno:


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

I like it a lot! But then I'm a loyal fan of Toyota products, especially Lexus. We bought our first in September 1989, a '90 LS400. The paint was barely dry on the dealership walls. My brother still drives that car and it's still going strong at over 200K miles. We got a new LS430 in '02, and it is amazing. I'm glad to see from the dash pics that they are offering the laser cruise control in the new IS, it is awesome. And they make the best NAV system on the market, bar none.

I just wonder how this new IS design will hold up. I loved the old one when it first came out like 5 years ago (and it was already a two year old design then). But it got kind of tired fast, and they did nothing--no facelift, no redesign, nada--in all it's years on the market. By the time I got around to getting my Bimmer, I had stopped even thinking about that car (and I came razor-close to buying one about three years ago). 

To contrast, the e46 design is about the same age, and has been around just as long. But after all these years it still looks good. When I was looking for a car last year I noticed for me the e46 still held that spark of excitement it had when it first came out. Especially with the awesome facelift treatment given the coupe/cabrio last year. There was no contest in the same car class for me, the e46 had it all.

--J.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

woohoo said:


> What about BMW's 525i? :dunno:


uh, it's a joke and I can't understand why any person would buy a porky 3400 lbs car with anything less than the 3.0. heck that 2.5 engine barely mtotivates a 325i. can't imagine how awful the 2.5 would feel in a 5.

to each his own.


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## woohoo (May 29, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> uh, it's a joke


Ahhh I see.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Hmm, which car to buy, this?










or this?










It may drive great, but damn that car is ugly.


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## vehigal (Oct 30, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> Hmm, which car to buy, this?
> 
> or this?
> 
> It may drive great, but damn that car is ugly.


Th*IS*, if it's a joy to drive. I agree that the E90's looks are far from enviable, especially in that picture. I truly hope Lexus does well with this attractive model.


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

I like the front end, Bangle Butt or no. But the rear looks like a Scion...I don't know if it's the depth of field in the photo, or the sheet metal, but in this pic the rear tire/wheel actually looks smaller than the front.

An ///M type version would probably look pretty good.

Any word on a coupe?


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

AJAX said:


> Any word on a coupe?


Still not sure if there will be coupe, or just a folding hard top convertible (a la SC430), I'd guess both. I hope the coupe looks like this chop:


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

For a new design, I like it !! :thumbup:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Nose is too long and droopy... too much front overhang. Otherwise, I don't find it objectionable. Nor do I find it especially attractive either, though. Typical Toyota blandness.


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