# No more PSM, sunroof, adjustable seats, AWD, and other crap



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

So, one of my track buddy saw a speed yellow GT2 at the dealership that sold him the GT3, took some pictures, and woke me up last Saturday morning to tell me the good news. a week later, we found ourselves at that same dealership signing papers for a 2003 Speed Yellow GT2 and turning in my 2003 Turbo.:yikes: :bigpimp:

Here are the specs:

2003 GT2

Standard *mandatory no sunroof*:thumbup:

GT3 seats with alcantara inserts (60 pounds both versus 150 pounds both for sports seats)

Large Carbon Fiber trim (the previous owner must have spent a fortune, sticker over 190K)

Standard *mandatory no PSM*, traction control is for wussies:bigpimp:

RWD only, bye bye center diff, front diff, front half shafts:drive:

Weight:3130 with GT3 seats

How does it drive?

The car is not evil, people who complain about the car being twitchy and dangerous needs some RWD lessons. If you can comfortably drive the E46 M3 sideways, the GT2 will be no problem. If your rear pads wear faster than the fronts, you will probably get killed very quickly in this car. Yes, if you lift while in a turn, the back end will swap with the front in a big hurry. Yes, if you don't immediately unwind the wheel while you are at 6K rpm trying to pass someone in the next lane, the back end will come out.:thumbup: :bigpimp:

But then, did we all forget how RWD behaves? Maybe this is the results of a generation of drivers that learned to drive with DSC, PSM, AST, what have you.

Fuel economy, because of the lack of center diff, front diff, front half shafts, and the loss of almost 300 pounds versus the standard 3400 pounds of the 911 Turbo, of which the GT2 is based on, it uses quite a bit less gas. I clocked in 500 miles with some high speed stints, 3rd gear passes, and city drivings, and only used 32 gallons of gas. The Turbo would have needed close to 40 gallons.

So yes, it's faster and it uses less gas, what is not to like.:thumbup:

The suspension and the rear fixed wing are fully adjustable, as is the camber. The problem is, the U.S. version of the owner's manual mentions nothing about it, presumably because most people who drive these cars just want to polish them and pick up girlfriends half their age in them. So the hunt begins for the instructions on how to do these things.

The clutch, it's what every manual cars should come with. It is not assisted, it is hard, and it grabs and go just like the E30 and the E36 M3. This car can be launched very very frightening fast without much practice. The clutch is that predictable and grabby and nice. My wife didn't like driving the Turbo versus our E30 for this reason, and when she got the car rolling in first for the first time, she got this huge smile on her face.:bigpimp: The clutch responds, certainly way better than any E46, regular 996, E90, E39, etc. This is what all 911 clutches should be, but interestingly enough, Porsche thought this is too hard core. Except they forgot one thing, drivers unable to operate a manual gearbox would just order tippy magic tronic anyway, so why wussify the clutch? It's not like by turning the clutch into over assisted pile of doggie doo doo, drivers incapable of operating a manual gearbox would now all of a sudden order 911's with manual gearbox in drove.:thumbdwn: 

One interesting observation, I drove my buddy's GT3, and it is actually way way louder than the GT2. The GT2 is only slightly louder than the Turbo. The stereo is only good for AM talk radio, since in the interest of weight saving, they removed the door panel mounted speakers. So with the slightly increaed engine and cabin noise from the less sound insulation, you have to crank out the stereo loud enough to be uncomfortable. Plus we are both spoiled by our Dynaudio home setup. The engine noise is pretty sweet though.:thumbup:

So what electronics is there to help the driver? ABS and rear diff, that is all. The ABS is calibrated in such a way that if you do the proper squeeze on and off the brakes, it will let the tire slide just a little. But if you just stamp on the brakes, it also knows to engage ABS in ernest. Nice programming.:thumbup:

In short, the 996 GT2 is what I think is the worthy successor of previous Turbos, like say, the 964 Turbo.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

:thumbup:


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

:yikes: 

I'm jealous..... 

Beautiful car buddy! Enjoy it!:thumbup:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

A true enthusiast's choice! :thumbup: I wish BMW would make a car like this, or any carmaker for that matter. Even Honda doesn't sell us Type Rs anymore.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

it's the first true successor to the 964Turbo (aka widowmaker). true that!

:thumbup: 

how come this car is faster than the M6? the M6 has 2 more cylinders and more horsepower. i thought the M6 was the new king of the road.

:bustingup


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

pdz said:


> it's the first true successor to the 964Turbo (aka widowmaker). true that!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Cause the M6 is a pig at 3900 lbs.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Nice. :thumbup: 

I bet it can be difficult to find a stripper modern car. Good find.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Believe it or not the 996 GT3 is just as fast as the 996 GT2, so I don't see the reason for the $70k price difference.:dunno: But it's all good, I like the GT2, looks amazing.

In my signature is your GT2's grandfather, the one that started it all, the RSA.:thumbup:


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

BmW745On19's said:


> Believe it or not the 996 GT3 is just as fast as the 996 GT2, so I don't see the reason for the $70k price difference.:dunno: But it's all good, I like the GT2, looks amazing.
> 
> In my signature is your GT2's grandfather, the one that started it all, the RSA.:thumbup:


Stock 996 GT2 is 7:46, and stock 996 GT3 (non RS) is 7:54.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

Stuka said:


> Stock 996 GT2 is 7:46, and stock 996 GT3 (non RS) is 7:54.


the times for the GT2 would be even faster if Porsche cheated back then like they do now by equipping all of the cars undergoing lap testing with Pilot Sport Cup "tyres"; back then they still used true roadgoing rubber.


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

Looks like it's on the original Michelin Pilot Sports. You need PS2s!



BmW745On19's said:


> In my signature is your GT2's grandfather, the one that started it all, the RSA.:thumbup:


I wouldn't say the 964 RS is the grandfather of the 996 GT2's. More like the American uncle of the GT3's. Not sure about "the one that started it all" either.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

armaq said:


> I wouldn't say the 964 RS is the grandfather of the 996 GT2's. More like the American uncle of the GT3's. Not sure about "the one that started it all" either.


It was the first stripped Porsche avaliable to America as far as I know. And yes, it did start it all, for America atleast, the 911 Carrera RS back in '74 wasn't avaliable here and neither was the '92 964 Carrera RS.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

armaq said:


> Looks like it's on the original Michelin Pilot Sports. You need PS2s!


Well, it is my daily driver, so some treads would be nice for when it's raining...

The dealer actually put on new tires, and I am not turning down free tires.:thumbup:


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

You lucky, lucky bastard! Enjoy! :thumbup: :bigpimp:


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Gorgous it is! Will you be at Thunderhill in August? I must do a ride-along! Been wanting to get in one of the SY Porsches I see at the schools since last year.


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

BmW745On19's said:


> It was the first stripped Porsche avaliable to America as far as I know. And yes, it did start it all, for America atleast, the 911 Carrera RS back in '74 wasn't avaliable here and neither was the '92 964 Carrera RS.


Quite different concepts.

The RS cars have always been mildly modified, naturally aspirated lightweight 911s that were intended for Cup racing homologation. The core of RS' philosophy is balance, whereas the GT2 is all about extreme. The GT2 insignia was created for highly modified turbo RWD 911s, intended for GT racing homologation. A GT2 is a hybrid between an RS and a pumped-up Turbo. The 993 GT2 was actually introduced before the Turbo (which went AWD), so in GT2's development Porsche relied on their experience with the 964 Turbo S LM. Consider the latter the grandfather of stuka's 996 GT2.


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

Stuka said:


> Well, it is my daily driver, so some treads would be nice for when it's raining...


AFAIK PS2s perform way better than PS in the wet:dunno: I didn't suggest you to get PS Cups



> The dealer actually put on new tires, and I am not turning down free tires.:thumbup:


In that case, enjoy it in good health!:thumbup:


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

armaq said:


> Quite different concepts.
> 
> The RS cars have always been mildly modified, naturally aspirated lightweight 911s that were intended for Cup racing homologation. The core of RS' philosophy is balance, whereas the GT2 is all about extreme. The GT2 insignia was created for highly modified turbo RWD 911s, intended for GT racing homologation. A GT2 is a hybrid between an RS and a pumped-up Turbo. The 993 GT2 was actually introduced before the Turbo (which went AWD), so in GT2's development Porsche relied on their experience with the 964 Turbo S LM. Consider the latter the grandfather of stuka's 996 GT2.


Ah, I understand now, thanks for clearing that up.:thumbup:

As for tires, get a set of BBS wheels and put racing slicks on them and put them on the car. When it starts to rain, stop back in your garage and have your magical pit crew jack up the car and change your tires in 15 seconds and the fun can continue!


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

jvr826 said:


> Gorgous it is! Will you be at Thunderhill in August? I must do a ride-along! Been wanting to get in one of the SY Porsches I see at the schools since last year.


I suck at driving, so unless you are an instructor, there will be no ride along. :bigpimp:

I am hoping to go to Thunderhill though, I had lots of fun two years ago with the Turbo.

I do believe that I am the guy that started the yellow Porsche trend in the CA BMWCCA schools.


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

pdz said:


> it's the first true successor to the 964Turbo (aka widowmaker). true that!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> ...


To give perspective to the 6er group, I've been trying to tell them that 6ers don't handle very well. I took my 6er to an autocross event, and the car just sucked. The weight was the reason and the track favors very light, compact cars with stiff suspension. Being heavy, and having a long base hurts a cars cornering ability. I could have driven a tuned M6 with 700hp, I wouldn't have gotten any faster time than in my 645. And my 645 was really struggling through the corners.

Porsche's are much lighter and more compact, and have better brakes. It's no surprise to me that Porsche would be faster than the M6 despite having much less hp. Porsche is to BMW as BMW is to a mopar.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Stuka,

While I may not agree with your use (and/or abuse) of the term 'poseur,' I definitely respect that you put your money where your mouth is.

NICE CAR! :thumbup:


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

philippek said:


> Stuka,
> 
> While I may not agree with your use (and/or abuse) of the term 'poseur,' I definitely respect that you put your money where your mouth is.
> 
> NICE CAR! :thumbup:


+1:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Stuka said:


> I suck at driving, so unless you are an instructor, there will be no ride along. :bigpimp:
> 
> I am hoping to go to Thunderhill though, I had lots of fun two years ago with the Turbo.
> 
> I do believe that I am the guy that started the yellow Porsche trend in the CA BMWCCA schools.


Doeboy mentioned your name when I was down to Willow Springs and for some reason I thought you were an instructor. I'm far from one myself, so I'll just have to gawk at the car instead. I will introduce myself if you make it up to Thunderhill. I'm really looking forward to driving it again - great track!

I aspire to have a GT2 or GT3 some day and can't imagine making that kind of decision with a "once around the block" test drive at the dealer.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

jvr826 said:


> Doeboy mentioned your name when I was down to Willow Springs and for some reason I thought you were an instructor. I'm far from one myself, so I'll just have to gawk at the car instead. I will introduce myself if you make it up to Thunderhill. I'm really looking forward to driving it again - great track!
> 
> I aspire to have a GT2 or GT3 some day and can't imagine making that kind of decision with a "once around the block" test drive at the dealer.


I got married about a year ago, and for some reason, every weekend there is something going on, so I actually have been to only one track event since last August.:dunno:

In a year, the group of guys (Doeboy included) that I started out with all progressed quite a bit, some became instructors, and I have a lot of catching up to do.:yikes:

There was no test drive of the GT2, I knew what I wanted, a no nonsesnse RWD with no electronics to help me, no sunroof, racing one piece seats, no sound deadening, you get the picture, oh but must have torque. GT2 fit the bill.:thumbup:

The clutch in this car is brilliant, hard and grabby like old BMW's.


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Stuka said:


> The clutch in this car is brilliant, hard and grabby like old BMW's.


I'ver never driven an old BMW, but I have a friend who complains to me about the new BMWs being heavy, watered down and "not sport cars anymore.". He said the same words you say here; one of his complaints is that the clutch isn't "hard and grabby".

*shrug*


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

SmoothCruise said:


> I'ver never driven an old BMW, but I have a friend who complains to me about the new BMWs being heavy, watered down and "not sport cars anymore.". He said the same words you say here; one of his complaints is that the clutch isn't "hard and grabby".
> 
> *shrug*


Yeah, relative to older BMWs the new ones are pretty watered down. Relative to the non-Porsche competition though, they're still standouts.

Soft clutch is fairly easy to replace though, doesn't the E34 M5 clutch fit in an E46?


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Dawg90 said:


> Yeah, relative to older BMWs the new ones are pretty watered down. Relative to the non-Porsche competition though, they're still standouts.
> 
> Soft clutch is fairly easy to replace though, doesn't the E34 M5 clutch fit in an E46?


Regular 997 and 997 clutches suck just as badly. In fact, my wife did not enjoy driving the Turbo because the clutch was over assisted and vague.

The GT2 clutch has a very very well defined small range of grab, just like the E30, it just grabs and goes every time. So lovely.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

Stuka said:


> I got married about a year ago, and for some reason, every weekend there is something going on, so I actually have been to only one track event since last August.:dunno:
> 
> In a year, the group of guys (Doeboy included) that I started out with all progressed quite a bit, some became instructors, and I have a lot of catching up to do.:yikes:
> 
> ...


since the dawn of the dual mass flywheel/clutch, it's been a rarity to have that racing clutch 'feel'. nothing but sponginess.

i bet the GT3 and GT2 clutches are single mass, LTW flywheels with seriously uprated LUK clutches compared to the run of da mill 996/997 ilk.


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## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

funNiiiiiiiccccccccceeeeeeee!!! I am in the process of buying a new 911 Carrera S Cabriolet as a weekend car. I am leaning to either Carrara White or Guards Red. Porsche is definately not a luxury car, its all about the performance (which is a plus) Have Fun!!! -e60lover


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

Andy,

I just heard about this... you lucky prick. :thumbup: 

Jealous would be an understatement. The GT2 is a racecar!

Jerk.

- Mike


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