# Sound System Upgrade???



## Dan4tuc58 (Feb 25, 2003)

I did not go the HK way because i really did not like how it sounded.....I am definately looking iinto making my stereo sound better... but by the looks of the speakers...theyre what? 4"? Looks as if a custom install is the best way to go....which no doubt will be costly.... and rewiring w/ monster cable would be ideal....perhaps some of you have found a more cost effective way of installing a component aftermarket system or a good way of upgrading from what was in your car before? I was thinking of just starting out by adding an amp and good alpine head unit.... any thoughts? thx for your time.


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

I'd have to check on the speaker sizes in a 325i without the HK option.

I would not recommend upgrading the headunit and amp without proper upgraded speakers. Most car audio speakers run at something other than 4 Ohm while aftermarket ones run at 4 Ohm. By hooking up an aftermarket headunit/amp to the factory speakers, they can sound like total crap; especially if the stock speakers are rated at 8 Ohm; and you have a higher chance of blowing the speakers. You want to match your headunit, amp and speaker loads.

First off, how much are you looking to spend? A good aftermarket headunit will run you about $3-400. I purchased all of my JL Audio speakers and amps at US Car Audio. Its a great site with really cheap prices and fast delivery. The other site that I bought most of my other equipment at is Etronics. Depending on the speaker, you can easily spend anywhere from $100 to upwards of $1,000. Amps are another story. A really good 75x4 amp will cost around $3-400. Monster amp kits (RCA's, fuses, power, ground, remote) will cost about $50-75. If you are not comfortable doing the install yourself, then you are probably looking at around $200 to get it installed professionally for everything (speakers, amp and headunit).

Total cost can be about $1,500 for everything (this is getting most top of the line equipment - Alpine, Clarion, JL Audio, Boston Acoustics, Etc.) This does not include anything for bass though. That alone could run you $750-$1,000.

Let me know what your budget is and I can help put a system together for you.


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## BigRain (Sep 30, 2002)

ACK,
I've a non-HK '02 sedan (Canadian Spec) w/ only 6 speakers.
1 pair of Tweeters on the a-pillar
1 pair of mid on the bottom of the fr. door panel
1 pair of 2-way mid on the rear deck
I don't even know if I've an AMP or am just using power from the HU right now ( I know I'm stupid).

I've a few options in mind.
1) move the rear 2-way speaker to the rear doors (customize an opening req'd) and add JL Stealthbox on the rear deck + AMP. (cheapest way)

2) Same w/ option 1 but get a good 6 channel AMP to power the stock speakers too (I really think there's no AMP right now)

3) Change everything. 1 pair of component (Boston Acou) in the front (4 speakers), 1 pair of JL 2-way for the image, + the stealthbox. This will need 1 or 2 amps.

Now, will there be a problem w/ wiring since I don't have an AMP at the back? Also, concerns about opening an additional hole on my door panel, anything? Will the OEM rears FIT into my rear door panels?

Gosh... I expect w/ option 3, it'll be $1200 + installation so easily $1500 after tax?


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

BigRain said:


> *ACK,
> I've a non-HK '02 sedan (Canadian Spec) w/ only 6 speakers.
> 1 pair of Tweeters on the a-pillar
> 1 pair of mid on the bottom of the fr. door panel
> ...




Your not stupid, I'm not too sure about the non-HK systems getting any type of amp either.



> *
> I've a few options in mind.
> 1) move the rear 2-way speaker to the rear doors (customize an opening req'd) and add JL Stealthbox on the rear deck + AMP. (cheapest way)*




I would steer away from this since you are still looking at cutting into the rear doors. I don't think there would be a space issue with speaker depth, but you would be cutting into the doors. :yikes:



> *
> 2) Same w/ option 1 but get a good 6 channel AMP to power the stock speakers too (I really think there's no AMP right now)*




Read my post above concerning mixing loads between speakers and the amp/headunit. It can be done, it just might not sound that great.



> *
> 3) Change everything. 1 pair of component (Boston Acou) in the front (4 speakers), 1 pair of JL 2-way for the image, + the stealthbox. This will need 1 or 2 amps.*




Are you looking at an aftermarket headunit? I would at least start here and build the system up. If after adding an aftermarket headunit, you still don't like the sound quality (i.e., not enough bass), then add the JL stealthbox and amp and again, see how this sounds. If you do it in pieces and you like the sound after adding the headunit, you might save yourself the most amount of hassle and money. Make sure if you do get an aftermarket headunit that you buy one with three sets of 4V preamp outputs. If you can get one that also has subwoofer output level controls, that would be your best bet.



> *
> Now, will there be a problem w/ wiring since I don't have an AMP at the back? Also, concerns about opening an additional hole on my door panel, anything? Will the OEM rears FIT into my rear door panels?*




If you go the route of an aftermarket stereo, wiring won't be an issue with an aftermarket amp b/c you will have preamp outputs for your RCA's. The stock unit does not have these so you would have to get a line level converter; which splices off of the +/- of the left and right speakers. Its not hard but you do have to splice into your existing speakers.

I still don't like the idea of cutting into the door panels.


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## BigRain (Sep 30, 2002)

Ack,
Thanks for the reply.

Well, doesn't the OEM Sedan HK system have a pair of tweeters on the back door as well? So I thought it's just the inside panel being cut off, not the metal parts?

I don't want to change the HU. I 'THOUGHT' by changing the amps and speakers will give a much better sound than changing the HU along (re your first post have the same idea too).

Well, I don't really want to cut a hole off my door panel either but I can't find another way to fit both the sub and rear imagings on the rear deck and I'd still want to keep trunk space. Is there a 3-way rear imaging speaker that have all - Tweeter/mid/sub all-in-one?


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

There was a link around here with a DIY of a guy who replaced all speakers and amp but kept the head unit. It was a really good DIY. It's aggravating the hell out of me cause I forgot where it is.


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

Found it!!!

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27241&highlight=audio


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

BigRain said:


> *Ack,
> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> Well, doesn't the OEM Sedan HK system have a pair of tweeters on the back door as well? So I thought it's just the inside panel being cut off, not the metal parts?
> ...


You are right, if you switch the amp and speakers while leaving the stock head unit, you will be fine. Its just a combination of aftermarket amp and stock speakers that might cause issues.

It would be the door panel that would need to be cut into, not the metal itself. I'm not very familiar with the sedan speaker setup, so I don't want to answer your question about the tweeters incorrectly.

There are plenty of 3-way speakers out on the market. Its just a question of size. The bigger the speaker, the better the sound from the sub. Truthfully though, the rear speakers are only used for fill, so I wouldn't even bother with a 3-way. All of your main imaging should be coming from the front speakers. Go with a good two way speaker and you will be fine.


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## BigRain (Sep 30, 2002)

Ack said:


> *
> There are plenty of 3-way speakers out on the market. Its just a question of size. The bigger the speaker, the better the sound from the sub. Truthfully though, the rear speakers are only used for fill, so I wouldn't even bother with a 3-way. All of your main imaging should be coming from the front speakers. Go with a good two way speaker and you will be fine. *


I understand the front set of components are more important, but if I'm NOT going to cut open my door and want to keep TRUNK space. There will be no room on the rear deck to put BOTH the 2-way fill and a set of subs. That's why I'm wondering if I can use a 3-way on the rear deck to replace the SUBS and at the same time have the tweeter/mid range for fill. What do you think?

BTW, 2-way means tweeter+mid in 1 coaxial speaker and 3-way means tweeter+mid+sub in 1 coaxial speaker right? :dunno:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

FYI, e46fanatics has an entire ICE forum.

And AFAIK all systems sold in NA (6-driver non-HK, 10-driver non-HK, 12-driver HK) use an outboard amp in the same location.

The stock speakers are 2 or 8 ohm depending on driver, and will only take ~20WRMS (and sound like garbage) so I agree with Ack; using them with an aftermarket amp is a bad idea. The rear door speaker is about 1.5" and shallow, so you won't be able to use any openings for that to drop in the 160cm out of the rear deck.

If I had to make a recommendation in this case, I'd start with an amp and the Stalthboxes, forgetting about rear fill (a concept I've never been a big fan of) and simply feeding the existing high-level rear speaker outputs to that amp. Or if you want to do more in one shot, replace the front stage with a good 2-way separates, yank the factory amp outright, and wire the appropriate amps to run that and the Stealthboxes through the proper differential LOC.


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## BigRain (Sep 30, 2002)

Kaz,
I'm aware of E46Fan's ICE section and I've also asked number of Q's there too but it seems like EVERYONE has either a 10 speaker non-HK or a HK there. @@

So you're suggesting just a good pair of component + stealthbox on the rear. Do you think with only 6 speakers the sound will be good? If so, why would all the lux car have like.. 8-10-12 speakers? I don't understand the concept here. Plus, wouldn't the only thing ppl at the back seat hear is BOOM BOOM BOOM from the stealthbox then?


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

More speakers = marketing or more volume, not more quality.

Especially in a car, more drivers is typically bad news since the area is so confined and irregular that you're more likely to have all the classic problems with audio such as phase and time alignment, dispersion issues, etc. etc.

From what I've seen of the 6 vs 10-speaker systems, there really isn't a big enough difference (the mids in the doors, which are inconsequential in an upgrade anyhow) where info for one can't apply to the other.


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## BigRain (Sep 30, 2002)

BigRain said:


> *
> BTW, 2-way means tweeter+mid in 1 coaxial speaker and 3-way means tweeter+mid+sub in 1 coaxial speaker right? :dunno: *


And wouldn't the rear passenger be hearing BOOM BOOM BOOM only? I'm also concerned about that. @[email protected]


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

BigRain said:


> *And wouldn't the rear passenger be hearing BOOM BOOM BOOM only? I'm also concerned about that. @[email protected] *


If you have the bass all cranked, yes.

But who cares about back passengers? :dunno:


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## jbmd (Apr 18, 2003)

What's the best way to add aftermarket bass in a convertible (i've heard you can't use stealth boxes) without putting a box in the trunk and eliminating your trunk space?

JB


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## BigRain (Sep 30, 2002)

2-way means tweeter+mid in 1 coaxial speaker and 3-way means tweeter+mid+sub in 1 coaxial speaker right? 

Can someone please answer that Q for me?  

If so, how much difference would a 3-way be compared to a pure sub alone setup?


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

BigRain said:


> *2-way means tweeter+mid in 1 coaxial speaker and 3-way means tweeter+mid+sub in 1 coaxial speaker right?
> 
> Can someone please answer that Q for me?
> 
> If so, how much difference would a 3-way be compared to a pure sub alone setup? *


Most coaxes suck. Only use them if you absolutely have no room for separates or just need rear fill at low volumes with the highs rolled off.

Crutchfield has really good primers for what this stuff means.


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## Dan4tuc58 (Feb 25, 2003)

Thx for all your help. 1500 or less sounds about right...I'm sure from experience you have a better idea of getting an excellent system out of the aforementioned budget... however, I was thinking of putting in an Alpine 9815. Some MB Quart components depending on the size holes i have to work with :eeps: (RCE or PSDs or maybe even QMs) or i dunno some JL XR525-csi's would be fine..... a Soundstream RUB600?.... a Monster amp kit.... and later on i would like to go w/ a W7....i know thats over my budget but i just want to start up slow...but then again i'm thinking that saving up and doing it right the first time is the better way to go. Let me know what you think. thx again.


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

Dan4tuc58 said:


> *Thx for all your help. 1500 or less sounds about right...I'm sure from experience you have a better idea of getting an excellent system out of the aforementioned budget... however, I was thinking of putting in an Alpine 9815. Some MB Quart components depending on the size holes i have to work with :eeps: (RCE or PSDs or maybe even QMs) or i dunno some JL XR525-csi's would be fine..... a Soundstream RUB600?.... a Monster amp kit.... and later on i would like to go w/ a W7....i know thats over my budget but i just want to start up slow...but then again i'm thinking that saving up and doing it right the first time is the better way to go. Let me know what you think. thx again. *


No problem. Its funny you mention that Alpine unit. That was exactly the one I was checking out today when getting prices on headunits for you. Its a really nice unit and its not too expensive.

You can't go wrong with MB Quart component speakers. The XR series by JL are also amazing. I have the XR650-CSi's in my car (front and rear) and love them.

Soundstream amps are really nice also.

It sounds like you know exactly what you want and have picked out some really nice equipment.

Let me know what you finally decide on doing and let me know how it turns out.


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## jgrgnt (Apr 27, 2002)

If you're not looking for earth-shattering bass and, like me, you want to minimize losses in trunk space, consider doing what I did: build a custom-sized sealed box into the recess above the battery on the right side of the trunk. If you do it right, you'll lose minimal trunk space, and bass will sound tight from the front seats without being boomy for rear-seat passengers. Plus, the sub and box can easily be removed if you need more space on long trips.

The only downside is, since the area above the battery is relatively tiny, your subwoofer box will have to be pretty small.

I had the 10-speaker non-H/K system. I, too, was unimpressed with the H/K upgrade, so I went the DIY, used route: a/d/s/ 5.25" component fronts (tweeters in the factory A-pillar locations), a/d/s/ rears (6.5" coaxials in the factory deck locations), two a/d/s/ amps, and the aformentioned 10" sub (also a/d/s/). Total cost was under $1500.

Edit: I kept the factory head unit (1)because it's actually decent and (2) for aesthetic reasons.


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