# PCD - driving north in summer tires



## nepats81 (Aug 21, 2013)

Hey guys,

I am taking Delivery of my 435i in early january and my car is fitted with summer tires on 19". I am a litte worried about driving the car back to Boston when its that cold out. I will definitely stop and get a hotel if it starts snowing...but if its dry will I be okay on the drive back? My plan is to switch to snow tires once I get home. Thanks!


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

nepats81 said:


> but if its dry will I be okay on the drive back? My plan is to switch to snow tires once I get home. Thanks!


No! if the temperature drops below 45 degrees.

The rubber compound on summer tires gets hard at low temperatures and can be down-right dangerous.

The tire loses its ability to have a grip on the road. Some have referred to the summer tires as hockey puck tires below 45 degrees. The tires will have a tendency to slide on the road like a hockey puck does on ice.


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## DXK (Jun 1, 2007)

It would be very unwise. In addition to 45 degree issue, just a touch of freezing rain or snow would be enough to create a dangerous situation. If you haven't bought the snow tires yet, you can order them at tirerack.com and have them shipped down there to install, instead of shipping to Boston


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## dmatre (Sep 3, 2011)

I wouldn't think twice about it. 

I've driven Max-performance summer tires in cold and snow.

They are two completely different things.

In the cold they don't have the same grip, but they are far from dangerous. They won't shatter if you hit a pothole, they won't leave you slipping and sliding while those around you are motoring serenely. Don't worry about that even a little.

Snow, however, is a completely different topic. The Michelins (PS1) we're completely worthless. 5 mph was white knuckle and crazy. Even after getting caught in the snow and learning the lessons (driving for about an hour trying to get to my destination) I almost took out a row of cars after slowing to <5 mph for a turn at an intersection. There was NO turning traction at all.

That said, I wouldn't hesitate. Check the weather and carry on until the white stuff falls.


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

Ps. Some very informative links, they all are very good reads.

Driving on tires right after delivery requires a 500 mile break in period. Also for brakes.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?&techid=5

400 to 500 miles of moderate driving is recommended. Consumer should avoid heavy braking during this period.

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=85

Driving on and storage of summer tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=221&

The manual on my sons BMW recommends winter tires at temperatures below 45 degrees.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/OwnersManualVideos.aspx?namodelcode=0925


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## nepats81 (Aug 21, 2013)

What do most people do? I'm sure there are some from the northeast that take pcd in winter months


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

nepats81 said:


> What do most people do? I'm sure there are some from the northeast that take pcd in winter months


Not sure what most do.:dunno:

This is a great suggestion.



DXK said:


> It would be very unwise. In addition to 45 degree issue, just a touch of freezing rain or snow would be enough to create a dangerous situation. If you haven't bought the snow tires yet, you can order them at tirerack.com and have them shipped down there to install, instead of shipping to Boston


You could UPS the summer tires home.


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## jayb328i (Aug 4, 2013)

I would not use summer tires below 45 degrees. The grip is worse than regular A/s tires, and much worse than Winter Tires on just a try road. Perhaps on the dry road we are only talking several feet------------but I would not want that for my car. That is the difference between no accident and an accident. On a wet road, that increasely significantly. In snow, in is outright dangerous ---without any question.


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## dmatre (Sep 3, 2011)

Keep things in perspective. Summer tires have less grip in cold weather, but they are still better than most cheaper tires, and you'll easily outstrip minivans, pickups, SUVs, etc. 

It's not as dire a situation as most here make it out to be (unless there's snow). They are likely the same folks who wash their hair twice because the shampoo instructions say "lather, rinse, repeat"...


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## JimD1 (Jun 5, 2009)

I agree completely with dmatre. The arguments about temperature and summer tires are WAY overblown. It gets down around freezing in SC where I live and I happily drive on my summer tires with no issues. I would not willingly drive on snow or ice with them but for dry roads in cold weather they are fine. Cruising the interstate is not challenging for tires or traction. On the other hand, tire rack tested summer versus all season versus winter tires in snow. Summer tires were far worse. The difference from all season to winter tires was much less than the difference summer to all season. You need to avoid frozen precipitation but if you can do that, summer tires will get you home without thrills.


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

JimD1 said:


> I agree completely with dmatre. The arguments about temperature and summer tires are WAY overblown. It gets down around freezing in SC where I live and I happily drive on my summer tires with no issues. I would not willingly drive on snow or ice with them but for dry roads in cold weather they are fine. Cruising the interstate is not challenging for tires or traction. On the other hand, tire rack tested summer versus all season versus winter tires in snow. Summer tires were far worse. The difference from all season to winter tires was much less than the difference summer to all season. You need to avoid frozen precipitation but if you can do that, summer tires will get you home without thrills.


You and dmatre never gave any links to support your statements.

A couple of quotes from one of the links in my second reply.



> "It is not recommended to drive on these types of tires at temperatures below 40 degrees F (5 degrees C)."





> "Tires accidentally exposed to temperatures of 32 degrees F (0 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 70 degrees F (21 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels, or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle."


Yet you intentionally expose your tires to these temperatures.:dunno:


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## dmatre (Sep 3, 2011)

Norm37 said:


> You and dmatre never gave any links to support your statements.
> 
> A couple of quotes from one of the links in my second reply.
> 
> Yet you intentionally expose your tires to these temperatures.:dunno:


I don't know whether you're a troll, or just mindless.

You would REALLY pull over and then wait until your tires were more than 70F for 24 hours before continuing if your tires were in freezing weather? SHeez.

While I have no links to support my case, I've got 36 years of driving most non-commercial types of vehicles. I've driven summer tires in the cold and in snow. I've raced on R-spec tires at temperatures < 40F, where the corner workers were freezing, but the tires didn't shatter, and they weren't undrivable. They had the same feel, the same response, but lower overall limits.

This nonsense about cold weather is simply a result of our litigious society. Some moron stuffs his sports car in a ditch, and he starts looking for other people who could be at fault.

Since you are so up on links and evidence, why don't you call your local BMW dealer and see if they cancel deliveries of cars with summer tires when it's below 40F (you know, being unsafe to drive and all). Then post his answer here.

To the OP: Use your head, use common sense, and don't think twice about driving the car home. (however, park it if it snows)


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

dmatre said:


> I don't know whether you're a troll, or just mindless.
> 
> You would REALLY pull over and then wait until your tires were more than 70F for 24 hours before continuing if your tires were in freezing weather? SHeez.


No! I would not be driving on them.

Did you even read the links? If the tires have been stored and accidently get subjected to 32 degree temperatures it shows the procedure for thawing them. Also states they should not be driven on.



dmatre said:


> While I have no links to support my case, I've got 36 years of driving most non-commercial types of vehicles. I've driven summer tires in the cold and in snow. I've raced on R-spec tires at temperatures < 40F, where the corner workers were freezing, but the tires didn't shatter, and they weren't undrivable. They had the same feel, the same response, but lower overall limits.


Then why drive on them? Maybe this copy and paste from your reply applies to you "or just mindless."

It is obvious you don't care about putting others in jeopardy.



dmatre said:


> This nonsense about cold weather is simply a result of our litigious society. Some moron stuffs his sports car in a ditch, and he starts looking for other people who could be at fault.


Germany passed a ruling that requires drivers to properly equip their vehicles according to inclement weather conditions. From October 15th until April 15th

"It is the responsibility of the car owner and driver to equip their vehicle appropriately for the prevailing weather conditions. If you do not appropriately equip your vehicle for the weather conditions that exist during your drive, obstruct traffic or get involved in an accident as a result thereof, it is possible you may be cited for a violation of the law by the local authorities or be found to be grossly negligent according to the law."

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Explore/Experience/EuropeanDelivery/EuropeanDeliveryFAQ.aspx

Grossly negligent people like yourself will go a long way toward having this kind of law passed in the US.



dmatre said:


> Since you are so up on links and evidence, why don't you call your local BMW dealer and see if they cancel deliveries of cars with summer tires when it's below 40F (you know, being unsafe to drive and all). Then post his answer here.


I don't need to all any owner has to do is read the manual. BMW recommends not driving at temperatures below 45 degrees.

I would hope dealers would tell you to get winter or all-season tires. Or maybe even offer to sell you a set of winter tires and wheels.



dmatre said:


> To the OP: Use your head, use common sense, and don't think twice about driving the car home. (however, park it if it snows)


OP read the replies and links and come to your own decision.


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## dmatre (Sep 3, 2011)

I am well aware of the German law, as I travel there extensively, and if you check your own link you will find that it relates to inclement weather (read:snow, sleet, freezing rain), NOT cold temperatures.

Inclement weather & summer tires are a volatile mixture (as I've stated above), BUT to advise the OP not to drive his car home because it may be cold is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not trying to convince you, because you obviously have a set of principles where you follow every recommendation to the letter. If that's your thing, that's fine. But to suggest that everyone else must be as rigidly terrified of cold is absurd. 

Warnings & safety manuals are not actually there for the reason that you think. Having written safety manuals for my company (along with consultants for this specialty) I can assure you that they exist to protect the company from lawsuits rather than to constructively inform the customer.




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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

My 2 cents. Summer tires should be driven with more care in sub 40 degree weather. To say they are unsafe is way over blown. If you drive at sane speeds with sane handling expectations you will be fine. I would not expect them to carve up the twisties like they do in the Summer. In any snow or God forbid ice I would not drive them for any reason. N4S


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## jayb328i (Aug 4, 2013)

If your BMW Manual says not to drive below 40 degrees (as mentioned in prior post) with Summer tires, just think what an attorney would do to you if you are in an accident. At minimum he would indicate that you were negligent driving that car with improper tires. That may result in you being partially at fault or completely at fault. I just would not risk it---especially if you are on notice via Manual, not to do it.


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

jayb328i said:


> If your BMW Manual says not to drive below 40 degrees (as mentioned in prior post) with Summer tires, just think what an attorney would do to you if you are in an accident. At minimum he would indicate that you were negligent driving that car with improper tires. That may result in you being partially at fault or completely at fault. I just would not risk it---especially if you are on notice via Manual, not to do it.


:thumbup:

The attorney would have at least two sources.

1. The BMW manual states not recommended for temperatures below 45 degrees.

2. Tire rack states not recommended for temperatures below 40 degrees.


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

I really don't understand those who recommend a January 933 mile trip North to Boston on summer tires.:dunno:


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## jayb328i (Aug 4, 2013)

Norm37 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> The attorney would have at least two sources.
> 
> ...


checkmate


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## dmatre (Sep 3, 2011)

Not recommended is NOT the same as advised against.

Please show me where BMW or the tire manufacturers recommend stopping or discontinuing travel if temps drop below 40F.

If it were unsafe, the recommendation would be not to. As with engine overheat, etcetera. Not recommended is completely different.

Yes, there is a difference.


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