# 2014 diesels available for ED starting Sept 2, 2013



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

I'm thinking about getting a 2014 328i xDrive touring for my next Euro trip. My CA pinged me today they'll be available for ED starting 9/2/13. The date is also valid for 535d. No MF/residuals or ECO credit $ yet.


----------



## Durkis (Dec 6, 2009)

Any new info on an eco credit yet? You would think by now they would have released this info, so they could start getting sales???


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

There was no ECO in July; we'll know by end of this week if BMW decides to bring it back.


----------



## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

if they decide? i do not think they would be able to move a lot of e.g. F15d without the credit (not sure about the 3 and 5 series pricing), F15d will be more expensive than F15 35i - it may be acceptable in Europe, but not in the US


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

kanar200 said:


> if they decide? i do not think they would be able to move a lot of e.g. F15d without the credit (not sure about the 3 and 5 series pricing), *F15d will be more expensive than F15 35i - it may be acceptable in Europe, but not in the US*


Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, and VW have zero problems with charging more for their diesel SUV (over the base 6). They seem to be selling just fine. Why is it that only BMW has been having problems?


----------



## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

I do not know what kind of engines we are comparing, but looking only into BMW offerings, I would not pay more for the 30d single turbo they will be offering in the new models vs. 35i... and I love diesels


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

kanar200 said:


> if they decide? i do not think they would be able to move a lot of e.g. F15d without the credit (not sure about the 3 and 5 series pricing), F15d will be more expensive than F15 35i - it may be acceptable in Europe, but not in the US


Besides - BMW has no problems selling diesels in other parts of the world; why would they keep subsidizing 'd' cars in USA when they can sell the easily elsewhere?

Also - current BMW diesels for US market are equivalent of lesser engines in euro markets, 20d as 28d, and 30d as 35d. In my opinion it's a BMW attempt to close the price gap to gas engine equivalents without the ECO credit.


----------



## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

there are many aspects to consider when deciding diesel vs. gas; it not as simple as that the world loves diesel engines - in many parts of the world diesel is selling better than gas, because of the fuel prices and the diesel economy; I do not see this in favor of diesel in the US

it is a subjective opinion, but IMO it is not worth to pay more for 30d vs. 35i



skier said:


> Besides - BMW has no problems selling diesels in other parts of the world; why would they keep subsidizing 'd' cars in USA when they can sell the easily elsewhere?
> (...)


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

kanar200 said:


> there are many aspects to consider when deciding diesel vs. gas; it not as simple as that the world loves diesel engines - in many parts of the world diesel is selling better than gas, because of the fuel prices and the diesel economy; I do not see this in favor of diesel in the US
> 
> it is a subjective opinion, but IMO it is not worth to pay more for 30d vs. 35i


Yep, the world does not love diesel car per se. If fuel here was close to $10/gallon, US would also love diesel powered cars.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

The rest of the world is better at Math. Even at the 10% higher price of diesel over premium, the gaming of EPA mpg numbers here in the US, engine certification requirements designed more for Detroit style mass production, and higher prices to buy diesels (made up by higher resale value), 30-50% better fuel economy over a truly equivalent gas engine goes a long way to saving $$$.

Personally, with local governments using speed enforcement to cash up their poor fiscal policies, I have difficulty driving the car like it was designed to, so intake carbon fouling is more of a threat than basic operating costs.

PL


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

Not sure about that math. The equivalent diesel engine was more than $4K pricier in US market, for example comparing E90 335i to 335d, so you would have to drive a lot of miles to break even. If not for BMW Eco credit, those cars would not move, spare for few diesel enthusiasts. 

2014 BMW diesels for US are not equivalent to gas engines, they are lesser (28d is really 20d, 35d is 30d) to close the price gap, and move them without subsidy. Will they sell? We'll know soon. 

I was interested in the 328d Touring, but since I lease, the car doesn't make sense. It costs more and has a lower residual than 328i Touring. Even with 30% better MPG numbers TCO would be higher over typical lease window. 

Higher residual on used BMW diesels are questionable at best, judging by the problems listed in this forum.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

skier said:


> Not sure about that math. The equivalent diesel engine was more than $4K pricier in US market, for example comparing E90 335i to 335d, so you would have to drive a lot of miles to break even. If not for BMW Eco credit, those cars would not move, spare for few diesel enthusiasts.
> 
> 2014 BMW diesels for US are not equivalent to gas engines, they are lesser (28d is really 20d, 35d is 30d) to close the price gap, and move them without subsidy. Will they sell? We'll know soon.
> 
> ...


While a 328i will routinely get 24 mpg, I'll bet a 328d will do a realistic 34 mpg all day long.

But the eco credit existed. So the figure stays.

Real world equivalent gasoline engines are usually 2 more cylinders when real world usage and driveability are taken into account. We drive torque, we talk horsepower.

Yes, the added burden of discrimination against diesels that already pollute less than gasoline engines but needed extra stuff to satisfy Southern California politics may make some new diesels less attractive, but as clean as electric cars (well to wheel).

Cheers.

PL


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

Yes, the 28d gets better MPG, 35 vs 26, and numbers are available from EPA, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34101&id=33522

I'm talking TCO for leased cars - 28d will cost more than 28i for typical lease. BTW - 28d and 28i are both 4 cylinder engines. And since you brought up performance, 28i kills 28d in 0 to 60, and passing times at higher speed, which is a safety factor to me.

Eco credit is a form of subsidy from BMW. Last year BMW subsidized leases on 7 series AH, resulting in payments comparable to 3 series cars. Is that sustainable? Same for the eco credit.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

skier said:


> Yes, the 28d gets better MPG, 35 vs 26, and numbers are available from EPA, http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34101&id=33522
> 
> I'm talking TCO for leased cars - 28d will cost more than 28i for typical lease. BTW - 28d and 28i are both 4 cylinder engines. And since you brought up performance, 28i kills 28d in 0 to 60, and passing times at higher speed, which is a safety factor to me.
> 
> Eco credit is a form of subsidy from BMW. Last year BMW subsidized leases on 7 series AH, resulting in payments comparable to 3 series cars. Is that sustainable? Same for the eco credit.


Everyone's situation is different, but if you lease a 328d and return it, you may be in for a loss compared to selling it at the end of the lease, you never know. I've been in leases before.

Let me know how many times you went 0-60 at full throttle. I don't know about passing, but the new i4 turbo engines are impressive. It may be more related to gearing than actual power. Manual transmission diesels are my preference.

Cheers.

PL


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

The new i4 turbo engines are impressive indeed. They also sounds like diesel at idle, and have the diesel engine work characteristics, with added top end. I had a 2013 328i, and was averaging 26 mpg. Initially I was planning on getting 28d touring, but changed my mind to 328i GT, doing ED in mid September.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

skier said:


> The new i4 turbo engines are impressive indeed. They also sounds like diesel at idle, and have the diesel engine work characteristics, with added top end. I had a 2013 328i, and was averaging 26 mpg. Initially I was planning on getting 28d touring, but changed my mind to 328i GT, doing ED in mid September.


I'm more interested in long term relationships and over 30 mpg. I believe the 328d will get well over that and have the carbon issue solved with a different intake design and single turbo, but time will tell.

PL


----------



## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

skier said:


> The new i4 turbo engines are impressive indeed. *They also sounds like diesel at idle, *and have the diesel engine work characteristics, with added top end. I had a 2013 328i, and was averaging 26 mpg. Initially I was planning on getting 28d touring, but changed my mind to 328i GT, doing ED in mid September.


This was the first thing I said when a buddy of mine started one up at his shop.


----------



## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

skier said:


> The new i4 turbo engines are impressive indeed. They also sounds like diesel at idle, and have the diesel engine work characteristics, with added top end. I had a 2013 328i, and was averaging 26 mpg. Initially I was planning on getting 28d touring, but changed my mind to 328i GT, doing ED in mid September.


Skier, congrats on doing ED 3GT. I actually quite fond of 3GT. Let us know how it drives when you get an opportunity. I really wish BMW will offer diesel 3GT. :thumbup:


----------

