# 2009 A4 and Audi Driving Experience



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

So last week I did this thing called the Audi Driving Experience, this one being held at Summit Point Motorsport Park. Audi lets you take its new A4 on a track for a couple laps and compare it to some of its competitors. It was free so why not.

Here are my impressions of the event and the car. Attached are some crappy phone pics.

They had a few S and RS cars on display, as well as the R8. It***8217;s less ugly in person.

*presentation*:
A Pete Carroll lookalike gave a 30 minute presentation about the new A4. I was wondering if he would also try to sell a timeshare in Florida.

Some items of possible interest:
* Apparently the 2009 A4 is an all new design and not many people have driven it other than journalists, some dealership VIPs, and other Driving Experience participants.
* They make a big deal about this feature called "Drive Select" which lets you fine tune the car to your liking. More on that later.
* Audi is trying hard to be perceived as a performance brand. They were touting the advantages of quattro in motorsports but neglected to say how heavy their cars are. More on that later as well. They also mentioned that weight distribution was greatly improved but left out the little detail that 60/40 of the old car was god-awful and the 55/45 of the new car is merely adequate.
* Just like any HPDE with newbies, there will be someone asking questions and making comments to let everyone know that he (it's always a guy, girls never ask questions) is a car genius.

*driving*:
They divide the people into two groups based on the name badge they give you at registration. One group does some laps in the A4, the other test drives the A4 and its competitors in a mini autocross type setup.

I was in the autox group first. They had a 328xi, IS250 awd, and a C300 4matic. No G37x but I'm not sure if they are available yet. The Pete Carroll guy said they tried to bring the IS350, which would be a more fair comparison (both in specs and price) than the IS250, but "weren't able to acquire any." Yeeeahhhh, right.

All cars had automatics. The IS had the most intrusive stability control of the four and, like a disgruntled employee, grumbles to let you know it***8217;s hard at work by beeping five times whenever it is activated. The A4 lights up the hazards when you come to a rapid stop. The brakes in the C300 felt weird.

Honestly I think all the cars kinda sucked at this type of driving. My initial impression was the A4 sucked the least but in retrospect, I***8217;m thinking otherwise. The A4 handled well but it is one heavy car. Its suspension does a really good job hiding this fact but it can***8217;t defy the laws of physics. I checked audiusa.com for the curb weight and it isn't listed  My guess is it weighs around 3800 pounds.

As mentioned earlier, Drive Select allows you to tailor the car setup to your preference. It can adjust the variable ratio steering, unlike BMW***8217;s system, because it uses a different mechanism. You can also fiddle with the suspension and throttle response. Adjustments are made with the MMI knob through a tiered menu. There are also preset levels that can be toggled with buttons that are located on the dash next to the hvac controls.

Drive Select is a total gimmick. I know there will be people that swear it makes a difference between settings. It really didn't, not at this venue anyway. The automatic is still sluggish when shifting, even when using the steering wheel paddle shifters. The throttle may have been slightly more responsive but at the cost of making (smooth) throttle modulation more difficult. Suspension compliance/tautness felt about the same. The steering did feel a bit heavier (probably my imagination) but that***8217;s not significant enough to make this feature worth the $3k or so asking price.

Lapping:
I got to do some laps after that autox portion of the program. It's on a modified Shenandoah circuit that is run in reverse. So yes, what is now the exit out of Karousel is as bumpy and abrupt as you think it will be due to the rough surface transition from concrete to asphalt. I think they ran it this way because it would make other parts of the track safer for all the knuckleheads that think they can drive because they play GT4/Forza.

They have Arai GP5K helmets for loaners. So if you plan on going, you can leave yours at home because I'm pretty sure theirs better than what you have  They give you a surprisingly nice headsock so you don't have to worry as much about cooties.

They take people out in several groups, each with one instructor followed by two or three cars. Do about five laps, then switch seats with the person riding with you. There were radios in the car and the guy leading kept a pretty good eye on what was going on.

The suspension on the A4 was probably the best part of the car. I ran over some fairly high flat-topped curbing to get to some of the apexes and the car remained very stable. Good compliance yet relatively minimal floatiness and wallowing. Also the car wasn***8217;t too upset by my adding in throttle while exiting out of Karousel.

The lapping session was ok for me. If you've done HPDE's before you may be a bit bored. I had more fun playing instructor by telling my codriver where to look, when to start tracking out, when to hit the gas, etc.

*Afterwards*:
When you're done, you go to a kiosk with a dozen or so ipod Touches to fill out a quick survey about the experience and the car. Hit "submit" and they will give you a baseball cap.

You can then go back to the lapping area and they will let you take another Audi on the track. Choices were an A5, A6, A8, Q7, and I think there was an A3 as well.
Same thing as before, follow the leader for a couple laps, then switch with your co-driver.

I really wanted to drive the Q7 (don't get to drive an SUV on the track too often) but that was already spoken for. I got into the A5 which I think shares the same platform with the previous A4. It is distinctively worse than the new A4. Felt even heavier and the steering was light and numb.

*Summary*:
The new A4 is a decent car. Looks nice, drives ok.

The Audi people were very friendly and courteous. If you have never done any sort of performance driving (autocross or DE), or maybe only an event or two, this will be a lot of fun and a good learning experience. I still had fun though, as it was a great way to spend a beautiful sunny day outside 

Here are the program details:
http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/experience/Audi_Driving_Experience/ADE_US.html

schedule:
http://www.audidrivingexperience.co...ity&a96rfdev=&b10PUi=&096mi=&event=&track_id=


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

your guess regarding the weight of the A4 (about 3800 pounds) couldn't be more wrong. The actual weight is of the 3.2-liter V6 with all-wheel drive is 3,483 pounds.

That is significantly LESS than the current generation 328xi which is 3627 pounds...

Plus, the new A4 is approximately 7 inches LONGER than the 3 series, and it is much roomier and offers significantly more interior space, a usable backseat for tall adults.

BMWs usually have a handling advantage, but Audi's shift towards a more favorable 50/50 weight ratio, together with signifcantly more room than the 3 series, at much less weight, is very impressive. Lets see BMW extend the length of the 3 series by a whopping 7 inches and keep it under 3500lbs...

Two cars for two different types of people, the A4 destroys the current generation 3 series in interior quality/materials, whereas the BMW has the edge on handling, but I don't think a huge advantage, not as great as before....

To say the new A4 sucks is pretty harsh, I have driven it and it compares very well to the e9x.....

To each his own I guess...


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

Nope, I was very close. According to Edmunds, the car they tested, which had an automatic like the cars at this event, was 3870 pounds.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=126666

Where did you get the figure for 3483 pounds?

And I didn't say the A4 sucked, I said it sucked the least in that kind of driving environment.  
Wow, did you miss the boat in regards to the goal of the event. It was Audi's attempt to demonstrate the performance of their cars. All the things you mentioned about size and the interior are irrelevant.



pilotman said:


> your guess regarding the weight of the A4 (about 3800 pounds) couldn't be more wrong. The actual weight is of the 3.2-liter V6 with all-wheel drive is 3,483 pounds.
> 
> That is significantly LESS than the current generation 328xi which is 3627 pounds...
> 
> ...


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## big-tex (Jan 25, 2008)

Nice write up. :thumbup: I've always wondered about audi's, I wanted a TT for awhile, but I dont quite fit in them. lol 

To pilotman, be nice, the man made a guess at a weight and was pretty close, and had a really good write up; no need to be mean.


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

big-tex said:


> Nice write up. :thumbup: I've always wondered about audi's, I wanted a TT for awhile, but I dont quite fit in them. lol
> 
> To pilotman, be nice, the man made a guess at a weight and was pretty close, and had a really good write up; no need to be mean.


I wasn't trying to be mean, just to get the facts straight.

Edmunds also lists the weight as beings significantly less:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=122888

And virtually every other estimate is well below 3,800 lbs...Latimes.com:

2009 Audi A4 
Base price: $29,000 (est.)

Price, as tested: $40,000 (est.)

Powertrain: 3.2-liter DOHC V6 with direct injection and variable-valve timing and two-stage intake manifold; six-speed automatic with Tiptronic manual mode; full-time all-wheel drive

Horsepower: 265 at 6,500 rpm

Torque: 243 pound-feet at 3,000-5,000 rpm

Curb weight: 3,500 pounds (est.)

0-60 mph: 6.2 seconds

Wheelbase: 110.6 inches

Overall length: 185.2 inches

EPA fuel economy: 19/28 mpg, city/highway (premium)

Final thoughts: A4 effort

Car and Driver:

Audi lists curb weight for the A4 3.2 FSI Quattro***8212;it will be the first to reach U.S. showrooms in the fall, to be followed by a 2.0-liter turbo four***8212;at 3500 pounds, a total that includes a six-speed Tiptronic automatic and is about 150 fewer pounds than the claim for the outgoing car

*********************

I didn't miss the point of the event at all, I was just adding my thoughts.

I personally wouldn't directly compare the new A4 with the current 3 series, because there is a huge size difference, and I think the cars are marketed differently.

If you want a more stable, luxo-cruiser that is great on the freeway, has absolutely top-notch interior that makes the e9x look a GM, and has decent handling, get the Audi.

If performance and handling are more important, than BMW is the preferred choice.

Different strokes for different folks.

There is a very lengthy discussion about this event going on in the e9x forum, and the general opinion seems to be the A4 is overpriced....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303634


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## mtbscott (Jul 16, 2003)

I enjoy any and all of these Ride and Drive events, have gone to many with my local 'Festers. Of course the brand putting it on is trying to sell their car so they're going to design it to make their vehicle look good. Regardless of the motives, it's a great way to test drive/flog some different brands without have to do the dealer route. I personally think Audi's are great, I've owned 3 of them to go with the 2 BMW's I've had (four if you count my MINI's). The R8 is still the "It" car almost a year out, the S/A 5's are selling as quickly as they can make them, and I suspect the new gen A4 will increase their market share as well.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

Nice write-up, Dr. Toothy  Too bad the event has probably already been through my area...

Car and Driver lists the curb weight for a 3.2 tiptronic quattro at 3860 pounds: http://www.caranddriver.com/content...ile/2009+Audi+A4+3.2+Quattro+-+Spec+Sheet.pdf


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## big-tex (Jan 25, 2008)

Quick question... How old do you have to be to go to these types of driving events?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Why don't they run the A4 against the 328i? I don't understand why Audi insists people will compare the 328xi to the A4 Q. You get the A4 Q because Audi won't make a proper car with RWD. Most buyers don't need AWD. If the A4 ha RWD then you wouldn't get Audi's cruddy AWD. Compare the A4 Q to the 328i and the 328i obliterates that VW.


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## andrewh (Oct 3, 2007)

In its TV commercial Audi claims that the A4 is the "biggest, fastest and most fuel-efficient car in its class "? 

I don't know about the "biggest" part, but it's definitely not the fastest - what were they thinking?


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## n3rd (May 17, 2006)

The A4 is much more aesthetically pleasing than the ever so ugly E90. Look at the Dashboard on the E90... it looks like a desk. However when it comes to handling and power the BMW walks all over the Audi.


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## ATLBMW (Jun 6, 2006)

pilotman said:


> your guess regarding the weight of the A4 (about 3800 pounds) couldn't be more wrong. The actual weight is of the 3.2-liter V6 with all-wheel drive is 3,483 pounds.
> 
> That is significantly LESS than the current generation 328xi which is 3627 pounds...
> 
> ...


i did notice that the new A4s and too much over hang past the wheels...lol I hope BMW does not go making the 3 all big cause then it will no longer be the "3" as can be seen in the fact that the E46s proportions look much better than those of the newest design..


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## lubase (Aug 30, 2008)

I did this same event last week at the Pocono Raceway. Although they keep denying it,the comparison test seemed to be geared to make the A4 look the best. They did admit that they could have included different cars such as the IS350 however it doesnt come in AWD and the 335ix and MB C350 cost way more than an A4. They claim they wanted to compare "apples to apples." The 328xi I drove had the active steering which I thought gave it a handling advantage over the A4. I felt the BMW would have handled even better if it had the sport package. In addition to the autocross which was done on the infield, we also got to drive the A4 out on the Nascar track, followed by a number of laps in any model from the Audi product line. Wanted to try out the A5 but it was all booked up so I took out the A8. Driving the various cars gave me an even bigger appreciation for my BMW.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Again, why are they handicapping the BMW? If the A4 is a great performer, put it against the real 328 not the Xi. Realistically, people are stuck buying the A4 with AWD because Audi refuses to make a RWD car. But BMW buyers do not have to handcuff their cars that way. So why is it Audi is trying to compare cars that most buyers do not compare?

BTW, I noticed in an Audi release on the TT they mentioned the Z4 coupe as competition but not the 1 series. Um, the 1 series is a 4 place coupe, just like the TT.


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

My brother in law is in the market to replace his 10 year old Civic. We test drove the new A4 3.2L Quattro the weekend before last. Overall, it's a nice car. Acceleration was good, and I expect the 2.0T to feel even better with 20+ more foot pounds of torque. Brakes are good, and the interior is excellent. Handling is slightly below par verse the E90. The steering response felt a bit slower than the E90, but this can be due to absence of the performance suspension, and the presence of the no-seasons (all seasons) tires. 

If I was in the market to replace the GTI, and I may be, because I find it to be too noisy for a long commute, I would flip a coin and take the A4 2.0T over its competitors. I would wait for the 6 speed manual though.

Anyone know if the Audi's stock stereo's speakers can easily be replaced with after market ones? Don't want to pony up for the Premium Package (who cares about LED lights?), and the Bang Olufsen stereo. Thanks.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

ed325i said:


> My brother in law is in the market to replace his 10 year old Civic. We test drove the new A4 3.2L Quattro the weekend before last. Overall, it's a nice car. Acceleration was good, and I expect the 2.0T to feel even better with 20+ more foot pounds of torque. Brakes are good, and the interior is excellent. Handling is slightly below par verse the E90. The steering response felt a bit slower than the E90, but this can be due to absence of the performance suspension, and the presence of the no-seasons (all seasons) tires.
> 
> If I was in the market to replace the GTI, and I may be, because I find it to be too noisy for a long commute, I would flip a coin and take the A4 2.0T over its competitors. I would wait for the 6 speed manual though.
> 
> Anyone know if the Audi's stock stereo's speakers can easily be replaced with after market ones? Don't want to pony up for the Premium Package (who cares about LED lights?), and the Bang Olufsen stereo. Thanks.


Why not go for a used e90? The values of used cars is dropping like a rock and you can get insane deals on 2006 and 2007 3 series cars. When the redesigned 2009 hits, the 06s and 07s will drop even more.


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