# "Market Adjustment" "Dealer Addendum" "Bump Sticker" Run Like Hell!



## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

That is all. Unbelievable what some dealers are doing.


----------



## ghpup (Nov 19, 2008)

Jon Shafer said:


> That is all. Unbelievable what some dealers are doing.


While I greatly appreciate your integrity Jon, when sellers have wait lists lasting several months, they see an opportunity. Classic Supply/Demand situation they are taking advantage of. Unfortunately, some do not take the long view you are. These times will eventually change and Karma will return...


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

If more people took Jon's suggested approach on this, the market would quickly swing back to buyers' favor.

Back when the world was normal, when we walked after giving a dealer the opportunity to sell us a car, the terms magically improved.

Only reasons to pay more are need or a desire for New Car Smell that overrides a desire for a better deal.

Since in the end we drive the cars, not the deals, who is to say how much is too much to pay?

When my lease ends in a few months, it will be interesting to see what I decide to do when faced with the new realities.

Strange times indeed.


----------



## Kawabata (Aug 10, 2021)

Here in Japan the yen gained some 40% in value against the dollar and euro around 10 years ago. A friend of mine was reporter for Nikkei News, and interviewed the operator of Tokyo’s largest BMW dealer, asking them about the challenges of selling European cars in Japan. She asked how sales must have increased because the strong yen should be making BMW cars much more competitive with domestic Japanese cars. There were embarrassed expressions from the dealership’s owner, and his representative explained that they hadn’t lowered the prices of their cars. They explained that lowering prices of imports when the yen grew strong was “harmful to consumers.” It sounds like BMW USA dealers are no less odious than their counterparts here in Japan.


----------



## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

Yeah, dealerships are getting MSRP or more for new BMW's now. But, they're still getting hammered because they only get a few new BMW's. All the salesmen at BMW of Bubbaville spend their days on the phone trying to sell used cars to people who came in looking for a new car. A lot of the salesmen have left.

I stumbled into almost the front of the line for an E46 M3 at an out-of-state dealership. The dealership only charged MSRP, despite being a two-year-long waiting list for the coupes. Other dealers would only offer those cars to customers who'd bought cars from them before. That makes sense.


----------



## quackbury (Dec 17, 2005)

It's sobering to realize that the folks just now reading The Putz's E46 M3 story for the first time, are likely the children (maybe the grandchildren?) of we who were here when he started sharing it. 

As for 1968BMW2800's dilemma: I have a year till the lease on my 2020 540 ends, but if the market doesn't return to some semblance of normalcy, I will likely buy it off lease, capitalizing on the smoking good deal I negotiated pre-COVID, and the fact I am dramatically under miles. Plus there is nothing else on the horizon that I like "that" much more than my current whip. I will miss the new car smell, but the new-to-me Boxster S we just picked up is replacing that with the scent of lilacs and daffodils.


----------



## SteveinArizona (Sep 12, 2016)

Autoputzer said:


> Yeah, dealerships are getting MSRP or more for new BMW's now. But, they're still getting hammered because they only get a few new BMW's. All the salesmen at BMW of Bubbaville spend their days on the phone trying to sell used cars to people who came in looking for a new car. A lot of the salesmen have left.
> 
> I stumbled into almost the front of the line for an E46 M3 at an out-of-state dealership. The dealership only charged MSRP, despite being a two-year-long waiting list for the coupes. Other dealers would only offer those cars to customers who'd bought cars from them before. That makes sense.


I was at my dealership a few days ago chatting with my sales associate. I complimented him on hiding the cars with the bulbous front ends from the showroom and he laughed and said that what they had in the showroom is ALL the new cars they had. This is a large dealership with a center of excellence designation. Difficult times.


----------



## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

BMW of Bubbaville has mostly used cars in their showroom. The "front line" (cars parked by the road in front of the showroom) are also a mix of new and used... and empty space.

I'm glad I don't need a new car for a couple of years.


----------



## ghpup (Nov 19, 2008)

Autoputzer said:


> BMW of Bubbaville has mostly used cars in their showroom. The "front line" (cars parked by the road in front of the showroom) are also a mix of new and used... and empty space.
> 
> I'm glad I don't need a new car for a couple of years.


Granted, SW Idaho is not a high volume market, but our local dealer has shown a mix of makes and models, mostly used, on the front line of the road for at least 2 years. Vehicles in the showroom are for delivery only. Very few on the lot with very low mix of options for the last year or so.


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

quackbury said:


> It's sobering to realize that the folks just now reading The Putz's E46 M3 story for the first time, are likely the children (maybe the grandchildren?) of we who were here when he started sharing it.
> 
> As for 1968BMW2800's dilemma: I have a year till the lease on my 2020 540 ends, but if the market doesn't return to some semblance of normalcy, I will likely buy it off lease, capitalizing on the smoking good deal I negotiated pre-COVID, and the fact I am dramatically under miles. Plus there is nothing else on the horizon that I like "that" much more than my current whip. I will miss the new car smell, but the new-to-me Boxster S we just picked up is replacing that with the scent of lilacs and daffodils.


I've had similar thoughts regarding buying off of lease, as the odometer shows 10,200 miles 2.5 years in. And I don't see anything I need to have. 

I bought this spray stuff from my detailer that is called... _New Car Smell, _so maybe I'll just snort some of that.

Plus I just dropped 3 grand into a new convertible top for my V12 XJS -- took months to get the top shipped from Germany. So I'm all set for smelling the spring flowers with the top down, though with these older Jags it's mostly the fine scent of burning oil that fills the spring air.

First world problems, to be sure.

Maybe it's time to consider something battery powered. Or, maybe, the new, dare I utter, upcoming Genesis GV60??? Or not.


----------



## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

Jon Shafer said:


> That is all. Unbelievable what some dealers are doing.


Yeah, it's pretty crazy out there. We're at MSRP here. But whenever I get calls, it's the first question that's asked- "do you have any mark up over MSRP?"


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

adrian's bmw said:


> Yeah, it's pretty crazy out there. We're at MSRP here. But whenever I get calls, it's the first question that's asked- "do you have any mark up over MSRP?"


If you have willing buyers at MSRP, then that's what the market will be. _Suggested_ retail price is just that. We buyers are not entitled to any specific price, above or below or at MSRP.

And if dealerships want to load up deals with Mop 'n Glo and rustproofing and, who knows, maybe even pin stripes will make a comeback.... anyway, honest dealing, at whatever the market pricing is, will never go out of style...


----------



## Art234 (Jun 25, 2011)

While some can sympathize with dealers who are trying to "earn a living", the idea of dealer markups seems somewhat opportunistic and dishonest (in appearance if not intent). Case in point-a good friend of mine placed an order last fall for an M3 sedan from a dealership where he had been servicing his current BMW. They signed a buyers order for MSRP (which seems fair). A few weeks later they called him and said the price had changed and now was $10K over MSRP. He could have fought them in court but didn't want to waste the time and money, and cancelled his order, got a refund, and ordered the car from another dealer who promised MSRP. Long story short, he did a performance center delivery this past week and is happy with the deal he got.

It's not just about the price, it's about HOW the deal is done. Those of us remember dealers who scam customers. I can't understand how states can allow dealers to charge up to $1000 for paperwork fees, when in NY they are JUST adjusting the legal limit up to $95. I would never pay more than $70 for that, since it takes the biller about 15 minutes to do a deal from start to finish.

To those dealers who see an opportunity to strike while the iron is hot, go for it, but be careful--you WILL get burned in the end--we have long memories....
And thank you to Jon and to Adrian for seeing the light--don't be surprised if I call on one of you to do my iX some day.

FYI, my last car purchases were done simply and easily, in less than 10 minutes each time -- my 2019 Audi Etron for $500 over invoice when cancelled ordered vehicles were going for above list, and my wife's 2020 Lexus ES hybrid at invoice just before the supply crunch. It pays to know the people you deal with.

My next deal will probably be an iX, but I have time for the market to settle....


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

Autoputzer is winning the day. My spreadsheets are telling me the same thing 'Putzer has been saying forever.

I've got 5 more lease payments to go. 75% of each payment goes toward depreciation, the other 25% being sales tax and rent (interest). 

If I ride the lease to the end, each of those tax/rent strokes are lost forever, but the 75% of each remaining payment that reduces the lease balance would reduce the buyout cost in the end.

The sweet spot seems to be about now. 

With a few grand in "equity," meaning the car is worth more than the buyout, it seems like, if I'm gonna buy out the lease, sooner is better than later in that I won't have to pay the opportunity cost of the 25% tax/rent for the remaining payments.

Also, if I don't enter into a new lease in the fall, that's a $925 lease fee I won't be paying, which offsets a nice chunk of the sales tax I'll owe if I purchase the car.

I have one more free scheduled maintenance left and warranty coverage until October 2023.

The car has 10,400 easy miles on it, all driven by me. Car looks showroom new.

So, if I write a fat check to Financial Services and spray some new car smell perfume into the interior, and I sit in the car and close my eyes, maybe it will feel like I just got a new car. Right????

My favorite sales manger told me last week that if I want something new and bespoke from BMW for fall, 2022 delivery, I need to order now, with no guarantee that all the goodies I order will be available due to wars and plagues and real world issues like that. Right now I don't see anything new I have to have right now that would satisfy me any more than what I'm driving now.

My spreadsheets tell me to buy my car and to do it now and my gut tells me to motor along for another year or two and see what's on offer and what car pricing looks like a little bit farther down the road. 

My sales manager told me he would treat me "fairly" but that I should plan on paying more than I was accustomed to paying back in the good old, highly-incentivized and subvented days of 2019....

Will I miss doing a car deal? Can I live my life without watching ship movements?

Should I wait for better choices?

I think I'm pulling out the old check book and doing something I haven't done in a long, long time... buying and owning my daily driver.

It feels pretty silly to have lived the leasing life only to contemplate the heretofore unthinkable... buying out my own lease.

But, here we are, in this Brave New World.

What would Quack do?????


----------



## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

I just did the same on the '20 X3 M40 (leased in late 2019). It has about 12,000 miles and no longer belongs to FS  Actually, the '17 CPO 440xi with under 30K miles is on a purchase contract with FS @ 0.9% APR - sweet!


----------



## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

1968BMW2800 said:


> Autoputzer is winning the day. My spreadsheets are telling me the same thing 'Putzer has been saying forever.
> 
> I've got 5 more lease payments to go. 75% of each payment goes toward depreciation, the other 25% being sales tax and rent (interest).
> 
> ...


Buy the car and keep it for 2 - 3 years until car supply goes back to normal. Then you can go back to the leasing again. I’m planning on doing the same thing before my lease matures in April 2023.


----------



## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

Even when things get back to normal, leasing with low annual mileage is expensive, since there's relatively low deprecation on low-mileage cars. If you drive 15k miles/year, yeah, leasing is cheaper than owning for six years. 90k-mile BMW's aren't worth much and that last 30k to 40k miles will likely have some repair and maintenance bills.

The no-depreciation party is over. I look up the KBB values of our cars in December (end-of-year balance sheet) and in March (anniversary of their purchase). In 2021, our BMW's (2014 535i and 2018 X3 30i) went up in value $3k to $5k. But, they've both depreciated about $3k in the first three months of 2022.

I'll hit 80k miles on my 535i soon. After that, I'm going to shell out some big bucks for a water pump, thermostat, expansion tank, high-pressure hoses, ignition coils, belts, and the tensioner. Those are the things that could leave me on the side of the road before 100k miles. My driver's inside door handle/switch panel is tearing and leaking glue ($450 parts and labor). I'm only driving about 7k miles/year now. I have a relatively new battery (replaced at 6.5 years, tires (replaced at seven years and 71k miles. The brakes are still at about 75%. So, that next big bill should have me in good shape for two to four more years, to somewhere between 95k and 110k miles..


----------



## rounderman (Apr 26, 2016)

I am with 1968 except my lease is up end of the month. I told my dealer if they want to write me a check for 10K over the residual I would sell otherwise I am buying it off lease.The sales call I got yesterday they mentioned 782 dollars in equity if I got into a new car. My CA got bumped upstairs and their new guy does not know I actually do my research (thanks to all of you helped me on this board) I plan to wait at least until fall but more likely 2024 for the new version of what I am driving with better technology and the go fast engine. Back to owning again, I am okay with that and if they give me the money we will be a 1 car family for a while, a definite first world problem. I have 16,300 on the car and there is nothing better in the market right now I want to drive. The Service shop at the dealer has been wonderful (yes I treat them well per 1968's advice) so I am happy to keep driving this car until something better comes along. This is after all entertainment dollars not necessity


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

When I called Financial Services last week to review options I got a laugh out of the woman I was speaking with when I asked: "Am I the first person who has asked you about lease buyout this month?" She said I wasn't even the first person that day. And I called in the morning!

BTW, they offered me 4.99% if I wanted to finance the buyout through them.


----------



## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

1968BMW2800 said:


> Autoputzer is winning the day. My spreadsheets are telling me the same thing 'Putzer has been saying forever.
> 
> I've got 5 more lease payments to go. 75% of each payment goes toward depreciation, the other 25% being sales tax and rent (interest).
> 
> ...


Wait. Are you seriously contemplating buying a new car and paying through the nose when you can buy out your perfectly good almost-new car???? Honestly, if you buy a new car in this market with a perfectly good low-mileage car, you are making a bad financial decision regardless of the fact that you can afford it. Just my take….buy out your lease and wait for the market to cool off and then step back in for a new one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

1968BMW2800 said:


> When I called Financial Services last week to review options I got a laugh out of the woman I was speaking with when I asked: "Am I the first person who has asked you about lease buyout this month?" She said I wasn't even the first person that day. And I called in the morning!
> 
> BTW, they offered me 4.99% if I wanted to finance the buyout through them.


Yeah. I’m friends with a manager of a BMW store in Florida. He even tells people that they should buy their leases when it makes more sense than new. He believes keeping them happy customers is a long-term plan and that they will keep coming back. Guess what, most of their buyers are repeat buyers….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

1968BMW2800 said:


> What would Quack do?????


I ask myself the same about everything. I bought a WWQD bracelet after becoming disillusioned with my livestrong bracelet.


----------



## rwavrik (Oct 15, 2021)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I've had similar thoughts regarding buying off of lease, as the odometer shows 10,200 miles 2.5 years in. And I don't see anything I need to have.
> 
> I bought this spray stuff from my detailer that is called... _New Car Smell, _so maybe I'll just snort some of that.
> 
> ...


Expect to see some large market adjustments on those. Hyundai Ioniq 5 the local dealers are doing 10% adjustment


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

rwavrik said:


> Expect to see some large market adjustments on those. Hyundai Ioniq 5 the local dealers are doing 10% adjustment


They will only get their 10% "adjustment" if people are willing to pay it. If there are willing buyers at that price point, that will be the price.

Consider me one of the unwilling.


----------



## rounderman (Apr 26, 2016)

I bought out my lease today. In a couple years I may go for the new car smell again.


----------



## SteveinArizona (Sep 12, 2016)

Fortunately, I have GEICO's MBI to cover me until my car will be seven years old (late December 2024). I plan on replacing my 2018 530e with a BEV at that time. I figure that by then the pandemic driven, and now war driven, shortages will have abated as will these dealership ripoffs. I also hope that by then BMW will have figured out how to have a new design director and that BMW will have some good BEV alternatives.

Until then, buyers and lessees are at the mercy of the dealers. In larger cities, there will be multiple dealers so it is easier to find one that won't rip you off (in today's world, I think MSRP is fair; more than MSRP and I will find another dealer or car company).


----------



## ghpup (Nov 19, 2008)

SteveinArizona said:


> In larger cities, there will be multiple dealers so it is easier to find one that won't rip you off (in today's world, I think MSRP is fair; more than MSRP and I will find another dealer or car company).


Living in an area where there is only 1 dealer for a 5 hour drive, I have always expanded my market to other cities that are an easy flight and drive if the vehicle meets my expectations. We've purchased 3 this way in the last 22 years.


----------



## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

I suspect a lot of lease buy outs the next 2 years, that stealerships with the market adjustment pricing will lose the low millage car coming off of lease for their used car market. With high inflation and recession fears, who knows what will happen in the next 24 months.


----------



## capt_slow (Sep 3, 2013)

The car market is definitely in a weird state right now. I'm usually one that doesn't hesitate to shop for cars or help friends get into one, but even now I'm thankful I dont need a new car at the moment and been telling my friends to stay out of the market if at all possible. By coincidence, I set my fleet plan up in 2020 to last me a couple years:

Bought out the F31's lease for about $4500 off residual and 0.99% APR (CPOs today run for 2.49% APR)
Leased an i3 in late 2020 for about $99/month
Looking into the future, I'm probably going to buy out the i3 and give it to the parents. The F31 is a keeper, but farther into the future I'm looking to compliment it with an zippy car: Z4 M40i, i4 M50, Supra 3.0, or M340i. Just depends how the hot or cool the car market is in 2-3 years. My company gets me some decent discounts on car rentals, so I been using this "downtime" to explore whats out there. Took extended weekend test drives in a Polestar 2 and Tesla Model 3, that was a fun weekend.


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

Just to close the loop on my decision to buy out my current lease 5 months prior to lease end; the deal is done.

It was made easy by BMWFS. I sent them a personal check for the payoff amount less the MSD balance via Priority Mail, plus $15 for them to overnight the pink slip to me.

They received and deposited my check on May 11 and sent the title to me on May 25 and I received it today, May 26, via FedEx, with all documents required for me to go to my local Auto Club to pay the sales tax and complete the re-title process.

Never set foot in a dealership, never paid any "processing" fees or other added costs, except for the fifteen bucks for the FedEx, which BMWFS recommended to ensure the title document got into my hands through a secure process.

OMG, I'm an owner. Got the Pink Slip, Daddy. And, apparently, due to the crazy times we're now in, I have equity two and a half years into a lease. 

And, yes, I sprayed some New Car Smell stuff into _my_ car. Onward!


----------



## Murray (Mar 2, 2008)

Wonderful & congrats. My lease is up in December I would like to buy it out. What determined that 5 Months was the time to do it?


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

Murray said:


> Wonderful & congrats. My lease is up in December I would like to buy it out. What determined that 5 Months was the time to do it?


I calculated that I would save a few hundred bucks on the 5 months of lease rent charges and that those savings would be greater than the opportunity cost of lost checking account interest caused by stroking the purchase check. Not a lot of dollar difference; in my case I saved about $300. 

The wisdom of waiting to lease end would be the continuing GAP coverage, which I gave up as soon as the title was signed over to me.

I just decided to get it done sooner rather than later and told myself that $300 saved is $300 to the good.


----------



## Murray (Mar 2, 2008)

Thanks for your prompt reply. I need to get working on this without obsessing too much.


----------



## rounderman (Apr 26, 2016)

I obsessed until the last minute. 1968 is right if you are going to do it the opportunity cost of keeping the money invested in checking or savings is minimal. If you are financing the buyout then pull the trigger if you find an interest rate you like. Otherwise you save some interest and given the market I doubt there is a need for gap insurance. I just got my new title a couple of days ago so it is all mine now. I offered to let my dealer buy the car and they did not make a credible offer. I also offered to let them finance the buyout and they never got back to me on it. If you call BMWFS they have a company they can refer you to for refinancing if you need it. In the end I wrote the check.

Good Luck and enjoy the car


----------



## socal59 (Oct 24, 2004)

Bought out wife’s 2019 X1 and now have about $3000 equity in it. Car is like new with low miles. It’s a keeper for now. My 2021 Hylander Hybrid Limited lease is 16 months in and I can sell it to Vroom/Carvana and get $5000 equity out of it. January 2020 got about $8000 off MSRP, just before the storm hit. I’m now interested in an EV. But those are flying off the shelf as well. Mach E comes to mind or i4. In the old days, the i4 would have leased for I’m guessing $399 mo. Feeling nostalgic 😎


----------



## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

FWIW Fields Auto Group that has BMW dealers in Chicago, Asheville, Orlando, and Lakeland never charges above MSRP, it's a company policy. They do have a healthy dealer fee which is common in Florida.


----------



## Art234 (Jun 25, 2011)

In NY State, the maximum dealer fee which can legally be charged is $95.00 just FYI.....that's also a BS fee.....just sayin'.


----------



## eazy (Aug 20, 2002)

I saw this at a Kia dealer in central jersey for a sportage. Part of the adm includes coupons


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

eazy said:


> I saw this at a Kia dealer in central jersey for a sportage. Part of the adm includes coupons


Truly evil. Could they make it look any more "official?"


----------



## SteveinArizona (Sep 12, 2016)

Are you all discounting the value of nitrogen in the tires?😄


----------



## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

could be just straight up adm...


----------



## Art234 (Jun 25, 2011)

Ah, price gouging at its best. If I were this dealer and located in NY state, I would be very careful......they have laws against gouging.


----------



## eazy (Aug 20, 2002)

Art234 said:


> Ah, price gouging at its best. If I were this dealer and located in NY state, I would be very careful......they have laws against gouging.


They still do adm’s in ny according to this site Advanced Search - MARKUPS.org 2 Mercedes’ dealer are charging six figure markups


----------



## GBPackerfan1963 (May 5, 2006)

Orient330iNYC said:


> could be just straight up adm...


Holy F&#k


----------



## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

GBPackerfan1963 said:


> Holy F&#k


i wish i could find it,mercedes benz of brookyn had a G63 with a 150K adm AND $199 window etch. that to me was exceptionally ballsy.


----------



## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

No disrespect intended but dear god g wagons are awful. If I won all the lotteries and had no other car on this Earth to buy I still wouldn't get one.


----------



## Art234 (Jun 25, 2011)

eazy said:


> They still do adm’s in ny according to this site Advanced Search - MARKUPS.org 2 Mercedes’ dealer are charging six figure markups


They do them, but that level of ADM is at best unethical, at worst illegal (price gouging). I do hope these dealers' customers have a long memory......... there is NO good reason for this to happen, nor is there any way to justify such a markup.


----------



## ghpup (Nov 19, 2008)

Art234 said:


> They do them, but that level of ADM is at best unethical, at worst illegal (price gouging). I do hope these dealers' customers have a long memory......... there is NO good reason for this to happen, nor is there any way to justify such a markup.


You realize MSRP = Manufacturer's *Suggested* Retail Price? Meaning, the dealer is free to price otherwise, downwards, or upwards, as market demand allows. If people won't pay ADM, it will go away, but it will stay as long as people agree to pay it.


----------



## Art234 (Jun 25, 2011)

ghpup said:


> You realize MSRP = Manufacturer's *Suggested* Retail Price? Meaning, the dealer is free to price otherwise, downwards, or upwards, as market demand allows. If people won't pay ADM, it will go away, but it will stay as long as people agree to pay it.


I do not disagree with your statement, however charging double or more the price is considered gouging and is illegal in many states. As I said, the practice is at best unethical.....and customers have a long memory.......


----------



## gohawks23 (Oct 27, 2008)

Art234 said:


> I do not disagree with your statement, however charging double or more the price is considered gouging and is illegal in many states. As I said, the practice is at best unethical.....and customers have a long memory.......


Double the price/MSRP??? Those dealers don't care about customer memory. It is a for profit business where conditions right now are good for maximizing those dollars. Nobody is forcing anyone to pay an ADM.


----------



## SteveinArizona (Sep 12, 2016)

gohawks23 said:


> Double the price/MSRP??? Those dealers don't care about customer memory. It is a for profit business where conditions right now are good for maximizing those dollars. Nobody is forcing anyone to pay an ADM.


I think you are both right. The dealer is legally entitled to sell at whatever price it wants in most states. On the other hand, I, for one, will remember (Alzheimer's not withstanding) that dealer and take my business elsewhere forever. Of course, I am in a large city where there are many dealers for every manufacturer; someone residing in a rural area may not have that luxury choice.


----------



## ghpup (Nov 19, 2008)

SteveinArizona said:


> I think you are both right. The dealer is legally entitled to sell at whatever price it wants in most states. On the other hand, I, for one, will remember (Alzheimer's not withstanding) that dealer and take my business elsewhere forever. Of course, I am in a large city where there are many dealers for every manufacturer; someone residing in a rural area may not have that luxury choice.


Actually, as long as one is willing to travel or have vehicles delivered, the world is your oyster. I live in a state where there is 1, yes 1, dealer. I've traveled by plane to Salt Lake, to investigate a used e39, didn't work out. Traveled three times now to Portland to purchase vehicles. Would have traveled to Seatle, or even California for the vehicles if they would have been available. That type of travel allows one to become familiar with the new vehicle (to you if pre-owned) by the time you get it home. 

How many people on this forum have purchased from Jon, located in California, regardless of where they live to take delivery at PDC?

Yes, I understand that dealer service teams will prioritize customers who purchase from them, but at the same time, they still get paid the same for service and don't have to deal with a difficult buyer like me. Of the 5 BMWs we've purchased, only one from the local dealer and that was an '07 e83 which sat on their lot for 14 months until I purchased it with 96 miles on it, for used car value.

Bottom line, it is only the purchaser who defines their market geography.


----------



## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

Takes a willing buyer and a willing seller.

I'm feeling for those who, for whatever reasons, "need" to enter into a car deal.

We Fester's are not typical buyers. We won't play this nonsense. 

For most unwitting customers, the 'steps to the sale' is a game of Chutes and Ladders, with traps and snares everywhere. These days, the old game is being taken out to its limits.

I am grateful to be in a position to choose whether or not I will play. This time, I chose to sit it out and wait. 

So far, the New Car Smell spray is keeping my Jones under control. But we have water use restrictions so I'm challenged to keep the shiny new car look going. Marinating in my First World problems/trying to remember how privileged I am.


----------



## eazy (Aug 20, 2002)

Here is a dealership group in New Jersey that Advertises that you are not paying more that sticker. Good advertisement. They are also the only jlr dealer in nj that does not do adm’s


----------

