# Why buy a BMW



## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

G'day everyone. My first post here but I wanted to get everyones opinion on why you would by a BMW over another manufacturer. 
Ok, what I am getting at is, my wife and I are looking at buying an F15 BMW X5 - 30D or 25D. It will be my wifes car and a daily driver. To my wife a car is a car, although she loves the X5, she doesn't love the price tag. She currently drives a 2015 Mazda 6 Atenza which comes with every gadget known to man including sunroof, heated leather, adaptive everything , blind spot monitoring and the list goes on.
So the hurdle I have to get over is, WHY BUY A BMW for $100000 when we can buy a car for $50000 that has more gagets/features. This is not a comparison with the Mazda, but merely I request for why people choose BMW over other brands. :dunno:

All feedback would be greatly appreciated,

cheers
Sal.


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## wackko103 (Mar 14, 2013)

Because it is a BMW!! It is a driver's car.. if you can't tell the difference, please buy a kia or something! !


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

wackko103 said:


> Because it is a BMW!! It is a driver's car.. if you can't tell the difference, please buy a kia or something! !


Thanks wackko for your feedback, but I don't think that will wash with my wife. Ok it's a BMW, what else? As you can obviously tell the difference, perhaps you can explain it to me. :dunno:

I have had three 3 series in the past and I am a BMW fan but I am looking for more than "IT"S A BMW"


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## dvarela (Mar 10, 2015)

It's the ultimate driving machine, if your wife can't experience that or feel the difference, buy her a kia. Not being rude, it will just be a waste of money to buy such awesome machine for someone who can't appreciate it.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

dvarela said:


> It's the ultimate driving machine, if your wife can't experience that or feel the difference, buy her a kia. Not being rude, it will just be a waste of money to buy such awesome machine for someone who can't appreciate it.


Thanks dvarela. It seems I'm not going to get what I am looking for. Kia seems to get a bashing here. 
Not trying to be rude either but "it's the ultimate driving machine" is a wonderful catch phrase, but why is it?? My wife likes to drive her cars and can appreciate a car. I probably sold her short by saying a car is a car to her but so far I have two answers that do not give me any rationale as to why BMW is better than a..&#8230; Kia or something else. I thought BMW enthusiasts would be able to say you are paying for "better engineering""better components""better suspension" stuff like that.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

I'm sort of in the same boat. My wife's due for a new car (every ten years). She wants a small SUV. But, and X3 would be a waste of money on her. Driving to her is just is something she does to get to Target and Starbucks. Also, she destroys cars.

When my non-BMW friends ask "Why a BMW?," the best answer I've come up with is that almost everything on a BMW, big and small, is "better" than on a regular car. The engines are better (when they're not blowing up, leaking or burning oil). the architecture is better (RWD)... the little stainless steel tire valve stem caps (before the rigid valve stems with TPMS), the LED lights that illuminate the rear license plate, the seats, the wheel bearings (low friction), the brakes, etc., etc., etc.

I let a friend drive my E46 M3. Pulling to the stop sign in the parking lot, stopping from 10 MPH, he said "Wow, the brakes are... intuitive." What he was referring to but really didn't understand is that BMW's brakes are carefully designed have the pedal resistance and travel be linear with braking force. This makes the brakes become almost an extension of your body. When I drive my wife's Honda for the first time after driving my BMW for a week (instead of my beater), the first time I stop is jerky.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

Autoputzer said:


> I'm sort of in the same boat. My wife's due for a new car (every ten years). She wants a small SUV. But, and X3 would be a waste of money on her. Driving to her is just is something she does to get to Target and Starbucks. Also, she destroys cars.
> 
> When my non-BMW friends ask "Why a BMW?," the best answer I've come up with is that almost everything on a BMW, big and small, is "better" than on a regular car. The engines are better (when they're not blowing up, leaking or burning oil). the architecture is better (RWD)... the little stainless steel tire valve stem caps (before the rigid valve stems with TPMS), the LED lights that illuminate the rear license plate, the seats, the wheel bearings (low friction), the brakes, etc., etc., etc.
> 
> I let a friend drive my E46 M3. Pulling to the stop sign in the parking lot, stopping from 10 MPH, he said "Wow, the brakes are... intuitive." What he was referring to but really didn't understand is that BMW's brakes are carefully designed have the pedal resistance and travel be linear with braking force. This makes the brakes become almost an extension of your body. When I drive my wife's Honda for the first time after driving my BMW for a week (instead of my beater), the first time I stop is jerky.


Thank you autoputzer. Mate that is what I am looking at. My wife also likes the X3, but I think I have her convinced to get into the X5 as we have a young family and I find the trunk area to small in the X3. I also have friends that say, "why a BMW" and all I can say is similar to what you have said. Love the way it looks, love the interior, much nicer than the E70. The hard part for me is things like blind spot monitoring are not standard, which is bizarre for a new car these days let alone a luxury car. Anyway cheers mate.


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## mrblahh (Oct 9, 2006)

bmw makes cars that are much cheaper but you are looking at the x5 and it is bmw's big SUV so the price will be big too all of the high end suv's are similar priced are you cross shopping lexus/merc?


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## wackko103 (Mar 14, 2013)

Salfield... for me is knowing that every time I turn on the car it will deliver. Bmw is a safe vehicle for yourself and your family. . knowing that engineers design the car around the driver, for example, they made sure that the amber lights on the dash doesn't hurt your eyes after driving for 10 hours straight and the seat is still comfortable for more driving. That the temperature settings get to where they are set up on, that you don't have to adjust the wipers speed every time it Rains harder or slower, road feel is far better than any other..last but not least is if you take care of your BMW whether is a new car or not the car will last a looong time.. I currently own a 03 e53 for several years and it has never let me down.!


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks wackko, mate thats is what I am talking about. Thank you. For a lot of people owning a BMW can be scary, all the stories of never own a BMW after the warranty has run out and BMW's are really expensive to maintain, so info from people such as your self that has an E53 that is still going strong is perfect.
Cheers mrblahh, I understand there are cheaper BMW's it was just more why is a BMW so expensive, what are you paying for that another cheaper car doesn't provide. I have looked at Lexus/merc/VAG. I like the Touareg but again people say you pay a premium price for a non premium brand. VW is pretty premium in Australia I think so I don't understand that either. I like the X5 over the ML's and LEXUS RV's are to thirsty on fuel.


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

BMW here is considered a premium brand, when I lived in the UK they are more mainstream, so prices here are premium even in the used market. Are they good value for money? Probably not compared to Mazda, Kia etc. I too, am looking at an SUV. Is an X5 an ultimate driving machine? Definately not, it is a huge vehicle with a high centre of gravity and cannot compare with BMW cars. I know that those comments will be heresy amoungst some members and having driven same basics physics tells you that they are nice vehicles to drive, that is all they are,. If you are a BMW nut like me, it will be a no brainer, if not, I would save my money and buy an uber reliable Japanese model.

How's that for some controversy, and yes, my next BMW will be an X5, ironic or what?


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

BMW here is considered a premium brand, when I lived in the UK they are more mainstream, so prices here are premium even in the used market. Are they good value for money? Probably not compared to Mazda, Kia etc. I too, am looking at an SUV. Is an X5 an ultimate driving machine? Definately not, it is a huge vehicle with a high centre of gravity and cannot compare with BMW cars. I know that those comments will be heresy amoungst some members and having driven same basics physics tells you that they are nice vehicles to drive, that is all they are,. If you are a BMW nut like me, it will be a no brainer, if not, I would save my money and buy an uber reliable Japanese model.

How's that for some controversy, and yes, my next BMW will be an X5, ironic or what?


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## wackko103 (Mar 14, 2013)

Your welcome. . I want you to understand that there is a difference between being a fan of the brand and being an enthusiast we are in another level.. Ml's will give you a lot of headaches. .Lexus is wayyy to expensive for what it is in my opinion. . Here is an overhead shot of my e53.. Btw that's my second vehicle a 2014 mb.. not a fan!! Just saying


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## mrblahh (Oct 9, 2006)

Nigel720 said:


> Is an X5 an ultimate driving machine? Definately not, it is a huge vehicle with a high centre of gravity and cannot compare with BMW cars.


I assume you drove an x5? They are one of the nicer handling suv's on the market they drive like a bmw and there's a reason they used to be called the ultimate driving machine

not so much anymore though, the newer bmw's suck


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

Yes they do, BMW have to some extent lost their soul. When I first got into them they were small rear wheel drive sharp handling cars, (E21, E28, E30) now most of them are huge great things, the F10 must be the same size as my old E32. When I parked my E39 next to an F30 they were almost the same size.


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## Oaker55 (Mar 7, 2014)

Nigel720 said:


> BMW here is considered a premium brand, when I lived in the UK they are more mainstream, so prices here are premium even in the used market. Are they good value for money? Probably not compared to Mazda, Kia etc. I too, am looking at an SUV. Is an X5 an ultimate driving machine? Definately not, it is a huge vehicle with a high centre of gravity and cannot compare with BMW cars. I know that those comments will be heresy amoungst some members and having driven same basics physics tells you that they are nice vehicles to drive, that is all they are,. If you are a BMW nut like me, it will be a no brainer, if not, I would save my money and buy an uber reliable Japanese model.
> 
> How's that for some controversy, and yes, my next BMW will be an X5, ironic or what?


Of course, a SUV is not going to drive the same as a car. I don't think anybody ever claimed that they did. But if you compare them to how other SUV's drive, IMO there is no comparison. The X5 may not drive as well as other BMW's, but they drive better than a lot of other cars on the road by comparison.


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

But are they worth the cost ? Of course I know they don't handle like a car, having driven them, they are not exceptional for the price, there is no doubt you get more bang for your buck with other marques. I look at BMW as a driving machine not as a status symbol, where I live , in rural Canada, awd is essential which put the X5 on the list. I did look at the X1 and it was hideous, X3? Undecided.

This of course, is a personal opinion and is not intended to insult, offend or anything else........


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## chimpskibot (Jan 4, 2015)

IMO I chose Bmw for a multitude of reasons, sporty, very driver oriented, easy to diy e46 and earlier, and the knowledge that you can pass basically any "normal" car on the road. However, if your wife is only going to use the car in a utilitarian fashion there are other SUV's that are cost less with better options/packages. Your car description says you drive a Subaru, why dont you get another one? The current outbacks are very big and spacious, in fact my mother only buys Subarus due to their reliability.


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## silverfcuk (Mar 5, 2015)

You're certainly paying for engineering quality with a BMW, but you're also paying a premium for the brand. And that doesn't always equate to "better". I have a 2015 M3, and I made my decision primarily based on performance, aesthetics and the fact I can get two baby seats in the back, while still sitting comfortable myself (I'm 6ft 3). Surprisingly not many cars that fit my criteria there. The 4 year no maintenance cost was also an attraction, since BMWs are not cheap to maintain compared to other cars. 

If you can afford to pay the premium, and like the car enough to justify that premium, then it's worth it. Otherwise, there's a ton of nice SUVs out there that will cost you a fraction of the price of an X5. If you're leasing though, BMW residual might be higher, which makes them a lot more attractive.


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## M5Fed (Sep 7, 2014)

The question should be why are you guys forcing the issue, if your wives or partners want to drive a car other than a Bimmer, then just go with it. Sounds to me you guys are the one who really want one, then sneak off with it everyday to the grocery store for milk or something...


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## veery (Feb 25, 2015)

M5Fed said:


> The question should be why are you guys forcing the issue, if your wives or partners want to drive a car other than a Bimmer, then just go with it. Sounds to me you guys are the one who really want one, then sneak off with it everyday to the grocery store for milk or something...


Yep! Guzzle, guzzle, guzzle, jees we're outa milk again, honey!

If she doesn't go, "I really love this car" after driving the X5, get her a CRV.


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## bighorns (Mar 6, 2013)

My wife loves her Odyssey, but she understood what makes the BMW special the first time that she was able to avoid an accident that she said, "Any other car, I would have been in an accident".


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## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

My wife drives a Honda CRV - her second. For me, its the driving experience - BMW ownership was a 'seat of the pants' decision. If I was doing a cost/benefit analysis using strictly the accounting part of my brain, I'd probably be driving a late model Camry or Accord. BUT I'm not.


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## Fish23 (Apr 24, 2012)

Nigel720 said:


> But are they worth the cost ? Of course I know they don't handle like a car, having driven them, they are not exceptional for the price, there is no doubt you get more bang for your buck with other marques. I look at BMW as a driving machine not as a status symbol, where I live , in rural Canada, awd is essential which put the X5 on the list. I did look at the X1 and it was hideous, X3? Undecided.
> 
> This of course, is a personal opinion and is not intended to insult, offend or anything else........


Why does AWD put just the standard X-series Beemers on your list? Most, if not all, of the models are available with X-drive (AWD). Have you looked at X4s, X6s, 3GTs or 5GTs?


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## 07 E63650i (Jan 7, 2013)

salfield said:


> G'day everyone. My first post here but I wanted to get everyones opinion on why you would by a BMW over another manufacturer.
> Ok, what I am getting at is, my wife and I are looking at buying an F15 BMW X5 - 30D or 25D. It will be my wifes car and a daily driver. To my wife a car is a car, although she loves the X5, she doesn't love the price tag. She currently drives a 2015 Mazda 6 Atenza which comes with every gadget known to man including sunroof, heated leather, adaptive everything , blind spot monitoring and the list goes on.
> So the hurdle I have to get over is, WHY BUY A BMW for $100000 when we can buy a car for $50000 that has more gagets/features. This is not a comparison with the Mazda, but merely I request for why people choose BMW over other brands. :dunno:
> 
> ...


"If you do not understand the price of something, then it's not meant for you."

All aside, BMWs are not perfect cars when they age, as the cost of maintenance and repairs can be costly. When a BMW is working properly without issues, it is a wonderful work of German engineering. Simply put, the build quality is better on a BMW than a Mazda, has a reputation for safety, and it is one of the best brands that make great driver's cars that are powerful and handle well. Not to mention that not everyone can afford a BMW, so ownership of one is an exclusive right.

To the typical driver on the road, they would not understand the amount of engineering that goes into these cars that make them desirable.


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

I hate the X4 and X6 with a passion, classic example of mass marketing with something that looks awful.... Newer stuff also not so good, not built as well as in the past.


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## Xiaoxi (Mar 2, 2014)

:tsk:

I can't believe people actually spout off "the ultimate driving machine" without a hint of sarcasm or irony. And really, that's the answer you give, without even attempting to provide any substance behind it? 

Sal, I honestly don't think BMW IS the the car your wife is looking for. It is certainly missing many amenities that are standard on economy cars and will be more costly to maintain. To be honest I see no point in BMW's SUV class vehicles and would not really consider buying one when there are so many other SUVs that are more reliable. Driving dynamics and fun are not really factors that I consider relevant to a vehicle class that is inherently bloated. 

My parents have a Toyota Rav4 that is perfectly fine as SUVs go. As far as I'm concerned SUVs are purely appliances for going from point A to point B for women who take leisurely strolls in the left lane, regardless of make.


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## distantsoil (Apr 28, 2015)

I'll probably upset a few people here, but I just like the car. Personally I think BMW's are overpriced, and in some ways the quality has dropped a little in recent years, but at the end of the day I love the way the majority of the lineup looks and most importantly I love the way they drive. The car "fits" me. I don't know how else to describe it? I've driven plenty of vehicles, owned plenty more but the two BMW's I had before I bought this one were because I just fell in love both with the styling and the feel when you drive. Yes I'm spirited, but even when I'm driving like a grandma I still feel right at home.

The car always wants to be driven, no matter how you treat it. It's eager and it's always eager to drive the way you want to drive. There's plenty of other cars that I've owned and driven that just, well, feel like you drive them, rather than a vehicle that feels like it wants to be driven.


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## wagondrvr (Apr 22, 2015)

'Cos almost nobody else makes a real station wagon any more. :rofl:

I wanted a true wagon--a car that handles like a sedan but hauls like a small SUV. Not a crossover. These days, that means VW or BMW. I drove the new Golf Sportwagen. Not a bad car, and I've owned severs other VWs. But in terms of sound, feel, visceral driving experience, the VW wasn't even close to the Bimmer. Now... $20,000 better sound, feel, and driving experience for a similarly equipped car? Honestly, probably not. But I do enjoy the better driving experience, and I'm at a point where I can afford it, so there.


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## stonex1 (Oct 10, 2012)

salfield said:


> G'day everyone. My first post here but I wanted to get everyones opinion on why you would by a BMW over another manufacturer.


Because no one makes BMW but BMW. 

Everyone else on this thread is right on.

To me, you buy the brand for the performance and driving experience.
....and perhaps some buy it for the badge. :dunno:

When it comes to car shopping, decide what YOU want... then buy the car that
fits that the best. Find one that is in your price range.

Forget about reliability, speed, MPG, or badge.
Buy something you love.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

wackko103 said:


> Your welcome. . I want you to understand that there is a difference between being a fan of the brand and being an enthusiast we are in another level.. Ml's will give you a lot of headaches. .Lexus is wayyy to expensive for what it is in my opinion. . Here is an overhead shot of my e53.. Btw that's my second vehicle a 2014 mb.. not a fan!! Just saying


Wow. Still looks mint. Love the blue as well. I consider myself an enthusiast of all things cars. The X5, I have driven a few E70 and one f15 25D and I love the way they drive. We want a bigger car with all wheel drive that still drives pretty much like a car, which I believe the X5 does well. I have driven competitors and similar cars from Toyota, Kia etc and I can say I like the BMW best, but my wife needs a little more convincing. She as driven the e70 as well and agrees its a lovely car, but she is the finance minister in our home, so things need to add up.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

chimpskibot said:


> IMO I chose Bmw for a multitude of reasons, sporty, very driver oriented, easy to diy e46 and earlier, and the knowledge that you can pass basically any "normal" car on the road. However, if your wife is only going to use the car in a utilitarian fashion there are other SUV's that are cost less with better options/packages. Your car description says you drive a Subaru, why dont you get another one? The current outbacks are very big and spacious, in fact my mother only buys Subarus due to their reliability.


Cheers Chimpskitbot. The car is going to be my wifes but to be honest it's more for me than her, but she gets to drive it more than I will. She is an account manager and uses her car for business. My car just parks at the train station. I am also a Subaru fan, having had 4 WRX's and the new Outback and Liberty are very nice looking cars. The Forester is not so nice on the eye. We are just in a financial position at the moment where I could convince her to get, what would be a dream car for me, but for some reason my stupid brain keeps throwing these thoughts into my head (as well as my wife) What are you really paying all that money for. Am I just buying into the "it's a BMW"? Why is it a dream car for me??


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

silverfcuk said:


> You're certainly paying for engineering quality with a BMW, but you're also paying a premium for the brand. And that doesn't always equate to "better". I have a 2015 M3, and I made my decision primarily based on performance, aesthetics and the fact I can get two baby seats in the back, while still sitting comfortable myself (I'm 6ft 3). Surprisingly not many cars that fit my criteria there. The 4 year no maintenance cost was also an attraction, since BMWs are not cheap to maintain compared to other cars.
> 
> If you can afford to pay the premium, and like the car enough to justify that premium, then it's worth it. Otherwise, there's a ton of nice SUVs out there that will cost you a fraction of the price of an X5. If you're leasing though, BMW residual might be higher, which makes them a lot more attractive.


Cheers mate. That is what I thought. A large part of the purchase price is not the car itself but the brand. For some reason BMW, like many other brands are considered 'premium' and as such demand more, regardless as to whether its a better product or not.
Wow I wouldn't have thought you would get two seats across the back of an M3 that's pretty good. The MB C63 is very popular in Australia but haven't seen too many with baby seats in the back.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

Thanks guys for the replies. All good stuff. Pretty much what I thought. Not necessarily the best car for the price, but if you can afford it, worth buying. More of an indulgence than anything. Unfortunately I can't get an X5 out of my head, as much as I can't bring myself to buy an E70 over the F15 when your paying that sort of coin.


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## thunderkyss (Oct 5, 2013)

I had on '05 vette, with a heavily modified engine. I also had one daughter away to college & another getting ready to drive. I turned that vette into a 2008 Mitsubishi Eclipse & a 2004 E66. 

I don't miss that vette at all. 

To me, the BMW is the ultimate driving machine. My 7 series is a big car, but it has plenty of power for day to day driving & the occasional weekend romp. Not as much as the Vette, but believe me, the vette was overkill. 

I love the way this thing handles. More than any other vehicle I have ever owned, it stays level. When I'm accelerating, when I'm going through turns, when I'm braking. The car stays level & I stay in control. I swear to my friends that this car handles better than the Vette, as the Vette required a lot of steering input & help from the gas pedal. 

The automatic windows are probably my favorite feature. Not just the drivers side, but all four windows are automatic. Touch the button once, the windows go down, or up... all the way if you let it. You want to stop it half way, touch the button again. But 9 times out of 10, if I'm lowering a window, I want it all the way down. If I'm raising a window, I want it all the way up. 

The cruise control is easy to use. Set it, cancel, speed up, slow it down... once I get on the highway at speed, I don't have to use the pedals any more. 

& it's solid. The car is eleven years old, but you still get that new car sound when you close the doors. Not a single rattle anywhere on the car any where. 

That's not to say I haven't had my issues with the car. The radio crap bugs me. I just need to go ahead & get it fixed. But... it's so far & in between when it screws up, that I'm not that motivated to spend the money. I also had to change all the gaskets on the motor. I changed the alternator. I changed the brakes on all four corners. & while I was digging around doing all these things, I found reason after reason as to why this car costs so much. It is extremely well built. 

There's a plastic panel under the car (much like my vette) that helps smooth the airflow under the car... not many manufacturers do that in a car like this. Not back in 2004 anyway. That's the sort of thing reserved for high end sports cars (not luxury sedans). Then there's a metal skid plate protecting the engine (it's also a structural piece of the frame). Again, not normally seen in a luxury sedan. The brakes don't say Brembo or anything on it, but believe me, they're very well designed. Rotors are thick. There's a nice blend of steel & aluminum under this car. The rear antisway contraption...... it's not just a bar. Even my vette, it was just a bar that had no chance of stopping body roll..... this is a contraption in the back of the BMW (& it's an independant rear, not common in your average vehicle) that prevents body roll. It's made of tubular steel & has these huge (6") bushing like cans that do the brunt of the work. 

& the transmission. You don't know what you're missing until you've experienced this six speed automatic do it's thing. I swear I thought it was some kind of continuously adjusting rotary belt ordeal in there. I could go from a complete stop to 120 mph, foot buried in the gas, & never feel it shift. The only reason I understand it's just gears & clutches like a normal transmission is because of sport mode where I can use the buttons on the steering wheel (not common in a luxury sedan... didn't even have it on the Vette) to select my gear. Then, it feels firm & sharp, like a manual should. 

The cars got it's quirks. Mostly electrical. But mechanically, I've never owned a more well engineered vehicle in my life. & I've owned several later model vehicles. But the car is looking dated & I'm itching to upgrade. Prices on the 2012/2013 models look about right (I never buy new).


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

I have only owned one BMW. It is the first car I have driven that makes me feel like I just want to keep driving it. It fits, it is smooth, not fatiguing in the least, comfortable, effortless, fun, smooth again. Those are reasons that sell BMW to me. 

Don't get a crv...don't get anything with one of those wimpy constant velocity transmissions. Unless you like the feeling that your heavy SUV is powered by a small rubber band.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

Jamolay said:


> I have only owned one BMW. It is the first car I have driven that makes me feel like I just want to keep driving it. It fits, it is smooth, not fatiguing in the least, comfortable, effortless, fun, smooth again. Those are reasons that sell BMW to me.
> 
> Don't get a crv...don't get anything with one of those wimpy constant velocity transmissions. Unless you like the feeling that your heavy SUV is powered by a small rubber band.


Wouldn't get a Honda anything. Just not a fan. The CVT is also horrible. We have a brand new Nissan Pathfinder with CVT at work and it's already gone in for a new gearbox after I noticed horrible violent shaking inside the car. We will get an X5 it's like a bucket list thing for me. I'm not a most go to Paris person, I would rather a nice car. Pretty stupid probably but there it is.


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## Kylinski (Dec 13, 2014)

Don't be fooled by the "quality engineering" tag. 
My 650 developed a crack in one of its camshafts. Cost of repair - £4500. 
My previous 630, transmission failure. Cost of repair - £2000. 

Once my 650 is sold, I will NEVER buy BMW again. 

Don't buy unless you have VERY deep pockets!


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## veery (Feb 25, 2015)

Kylinski said:


> Don't be fooled by the "quality engineering" tag.
> My 650 developed a crack in one of its camshafts. Cost of repair - £4500.
> My previous 630, transmission failure. Cost of repair - £2000.
> 
> ...


Engineers don't build the car, they design it. Camshaft and tranny failure like you have are more likely related to manufacturing than engineering.


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## rice_rocket88 (Apr 18, 2014)

I'm going to go outside the BMW brand like a few have... there is a certain "feel" for the Audi and BMW cars.. things being a little more solid, and over engineered.. thicker steel and bigger bolts etc. BUT.. you mentioned your wife driving a mazda. You know what my wife drives.. a Mazda CX-9. At half the cost of the X5 with the third row.. it has EVERYTHING except a heated steering wheel. The car, however, could do with better gas mileage. It rocks a 3.7L ford V6 inside it at 300hp.. it hauls.. Suspension is really tight, and it feels quite solid. Blind spot works nicer than the BMW one in my opinion as well. 

The N55 engine is great, feels good.. and the car sounds a bit nicer (X5) but it doesn't really do it for me to fork out the 25K more in price tag. My wife actually went to me and said.. I don't have to be a BMW snob like you and your family.. I'd rather have a new kitchen and a few purses.. haha. Seriously there are cars that handle nicer and have as many features. BMW is still a brand. It certainly isn't the ultimate driving experience.. but it's a GOOD car in comparison to many. I do all my own wrenching and have been lucky with all my cars, doing normal repairs and maintenance. The Mazda has had zero so far and it's going on 4 years. But I expect every new car to last a good amount of years before having to replace a thing.

If she enjoys the other car just as much.. save your $$ for your own car next time  And.. your young family, because it's not the food, diapers, and clothes.. it's the freaking child care, preschool etc.. oh god it's expensive!


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

rice_rocket88 said:


> I'm going to go outside the BMW brand like a few have... there is a certain "feel" for the Audi and BMW cars.. things being a little more solid, and over engineered.. thicker steel and bigger bolts etc. BUT.. you mentioned your wife driving a mazda. You know what my wife drives.. a Mazda CX-9. At half the cost of the X5 with the third row.. it has EVERYTHING except a heated steering wheel. The car, however, could do with better gas mileage. It rocks a 3.7L ford V6 inside it at 300hp.. it hauls.. Suspension is really tight, and it feels quite solid. Blind spot works nicer than the BMW one in my opinion as well.
> 
> The N55 engine is great, feels good.. and the car sounds a bit nicer (X5) but it doesn't really do it for me to fork out the 25K more in price tag. My wife actually went to me and said.. I don't have to be a BMW snob like you and your family.. I'd rather have a new kitchen and a few purses.. haha. Seriously there are cars that handle nicer and have as many features. BMW is still a brand. It certainly isn't the ultimate driving experience.. but it's a GOOD car in comparison to many. I do all my own wrenching and have been lucky with all my cars, doing normal repairs and maintenance. The Mazda has had zero so far and it's going on 4 years. But I expect every new car to last a good amount of years before having to replace a thing.
> 
> If she enjoys the other car just as much.. save your $$ for your own car next time  And.. your young family, because it's not the food, diapers, and clothes.. it's the freaking child care, preschool etc.. oh god it's expensive!


Cheers mate. You don't know my wife do you? Sounds like she wrote some of you post. 
Yeah we like the CX9 but as you say the fuel economy isn't the best. The biggest disappointment with our Mazda 6 diesel is it gets nothing like the claimed fuel economy and some of things like the auto high beam are very hit and miss. I hate the adaptive cruise. It's just not real world workable. 
My biggest fear is a talk my wife into an X5 and we have nothing but problems with it costing lots of dollars outside of warranty but I guess that's a risk with any car. I've also thought about just getting a new car for me a new turbo forester or something, don't know. 
I hear you about the childcare. It's so expensive and our government wants to take away some of the benefits we get so its only going to get worse.


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## Joe.T (May 24, 2015)

My last vehicle was an SUV. I looked at the X5, Q7, Cayenne, Range Rover, Mercedes, Infiniti, and ended up buying a Touareg. The only complaint I had was the seating material. VW uses a "leather like" material (I think they call it leatherette).

Everything else felt luxury, it handled well, pulled a trailer, cruised at triple digit speeds. I put 130,000 miles on it, and other than a driveshaft that needed replacement (under warranty) they were troublefree. As a bonus, the touareg did more than 1 camping trip where it was 4 wheeling side by side with jeeps on trails that nobody thought it would make it through.

I'll add that I liked the X5 the least out of all things I drove


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

Joe.T said:


> My last vehicle was an SUV. I looked at the X5, Q7, Cayenne, Range Rover, Mercedes, Infiniti, and ended up buying a Touareg. The only complaint I had was the seating material. VW uses a "leather like" material (I think they call it leatherette).
> 
> Everything else felt luxury, it handled well, pulled a trailer, cruised at triple digit speeds. I put 130,000 miles on it, and other than a driveshaft that needed replacement (under warranty) they were troublefree. As a bonus, the touareg did more than 1 camping trip where it was 4 wheeling side by side with jeeps on trails that nobody thought it would make it through.
> 
> I'll add that I liked the X5 the least out of all things I drove


That's interesting joe. My wife loves the Touareg and we have had VW before although we had a problem with the DSG and we swore never again. We have driven both but I like the X5 better, just a personal thing. The problem I see with Touaregs is they seem to depreciate really quickly, so do most new cars I guess. They are $80k + new here but after 5000 kilometres or a year old they are already down to $70k and below. I don't know why but I don't think they have the presence on the road of an X5 but I also have it down as a possible buy. Cheers mate.


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## fishtaco (Dec 16, 2014)

IMO I feel that technology is beginning to ruin cars. Most cars that had that "umph" or edgy feeling are now soft to tailor themselves to the people who desire luxury etc... But thats just my take on it.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

fishtaco said:


> IMO I feel that technology is beginning to ruin cars. Most cars that had that "umph" or edgy feeling are now soft to tailor themselves to the people who desire luxury etc... But thats just my take on it.


That's what M's are for. I looked at a M5, but all that "edge" prevented it from being a suitable road trip car (expensive to buy, guzzled gas, either no spare tire or no trunk).


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## Zain khan (Nov 23, 2014)

To start with BMW makes the best drivetrain amongst the others when it comes to torque vs power vs transmission which reflects straight on performances and feel the drive one of these machines. Obviously a general audience does not understand the technicality but a smart person can work this out by looking at specs. Have a look at the torque vs rpm and check out the compression ratio on the ultimate driving machine and compare with a Japanese car you will get the straight answer why BMW is what it is. Apart from engineering there thosands of interior layout and functionality that makes sense and that what sets BMW apart. I hav been driving so many different brands until i could finally afford BMW and when i got one i realise that it was more than what i thought it was. Yes you have to maintain them well on timely manner otherwise it will empty your pocket in no time.


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## JimH46 (Sep 27, 2013)

I never bought into the BMW "Ultimate Driving Machine" PR. I've owned a number of cars over the years (American, Japanese, European) and my decision was always based on what kind of car I wanted and what seemed to the best (and best value) at the time. My X1 is my first BMW. It replaced a Saab 9-2X (rebadged Subaru WRX) and would have got a new WRX if they still had a hatch version. Really wanted AWD for my winter skiing trips, and the X1 came closest to meeting my needs. By being careful with the options list, I was able to get one at not much more than something like a loaded Mazda CX-5. I must say there are many things that impress me about the X1, but I do miss the sportier feel and manual trans of the 9-2X.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

JimH46 said:


> I never bought into the BMW "Ultimate Driving Machine" PR. I've owned a number of cars over the years (American, Japanese, European) and my decision was always based on what kind of car I wanted and what seemed to the best (and best value) at the time. My X1 is my first BMW. It replaced a Saab 9-2X (rebadged Subaru WRX) and would have got a new WRX if they still had a hatch version. Really wanted AWD for my winter skiing trips, and the X1 came closest to meeting my needs. By being careful with the options list, I was able to get one at not much more than something like a loaded Mazda CX-5. I must say there are many things that impress me about the X1, but I do miss the sportier feel and manual trans of the 9-2X.


cheers jim


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## Kylinski (Dec 13, 2014)

veery said:


> Engineers don't build the car, they design it. Camshaft and tranny failure like you have are more likely related to manufacturing than engineering.


Poor excuse. BMW are responsible for ALL of their product as far as I'm concerned.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

Quite honestly you shouldn't buy a BMW. When I bought my E92 there simply was nothing that could compare in regards to overall feel and fun factor. That is not the case anymore. Now BMW's are numb and have been dumbed down for the average consumer for mass appeal. It's all about sales. On top of that, my car has been an absolute money pit, as are most BMW's.

There is no reason to buy a new BMW anymore, maybe a used one.


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## chatcher (Dec 26, 2013)

When it comes to buying new BMW is hard to justify (unless it's an e46 M3 that's absolutely beautiful and your going to keep it forever:thumbup. Used however they are a great buy if you can turn a wrench. Our Z4 when compared to a Honda s2000 of the same year and mileage was half the price. Our X5 is an 02 with 160+k on the clock now. It suffers through the same salty road winters my 05 expedition does and not a bit of rust on the body panels compared to the fords complete lack of rocker panels under the doors at this point ( rotted completely away ) I know many people that are able to take care of BMW's well into their second decade when most US and Asian vehicles would have already rotted away. I would say my point is this, if you plan on keeping a car for over a decade my experience is BMW's will do it and still look and drive the way they did the day you picked it up (granted with proper maint) If your going to trade it in in a few years for the next latest greatest then get the Mazda.


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## fishtaco (Dec 16, 2014)

Autoputzer said:


> That's what M's are for. I looked at a M5, but all that "edge" prevented it from being a suitable road trip car (expensive to buy, guzzled gas, either no spare tire or no trunk).


Well not everyone has the $$$ to spend on a 60k+ car or don't want to go balls to the wall and get a "race" car. I've never driven or been in an M5, but to some the M5 is a perfect car. And in respect to the comment on the M5 -- you can't have your cake and eat it too. Just saying, if you want a well-rounded car then a 535i or 335i ought to do the job.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

fishtaco said:


> Well not everyone has the $$$ to spend on a 60k+ car or don't want to go balls to the wall and get a "race" car. I've never driven or been in an M5, but to some the M5 is a perfect car. And in respect to the comment on the M5 -- you can't have your cake and eat it too. Just saying, if you want a well-rounded car then a 535i or 335i ought to do the job.


 I went to the first M School at the PDC's small training track. I came away from that thinking it was a big, stupid, slow (compared to E90 M3's). So, I bought a 535i appliance. I later went to Advanced M School on real race tracks. It changed my opinion in big M's. They also now have a mini spare available, at least for steel brake cars.


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## gtk87 (Jun 24, 2015)

salfield

i am a BMW enthusiast. My wife loves to ride and be in my cars but when she is moving the kids around, she is all about comfort and function -- not feeling the road and driving hard.

we just traded in our VW Touareg TDI for a 15 Toyota Highlander. she loves the cooled seats and all the amenities. i don't mind driving on long trips but it isn't and will never be a X5 but she would rather have the comfort and reliability of a Toyota at a lot less money.

i don't believe BMW are less reliable than Japanese cars but they are designed to be driver's cars that parts are engineered to have a driving purpose instead of a longevity purpose. those parts will wear out and are expensive.


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

gtk87 said:


> salfield
> 
> i am a BMW enthusiast. My wife loves to ride and be in my cars but when she is moving the kids around, she is all about comfort and function -- not feeling the road and driving hard.
> 
> ...


Cheers guys. It would be a long term car. Even if we did sell the car I will be hearing about it for ever should we buy. Is a bit of a concern though when people with BMW's say not to buy one. I've driven both the E70 and the F15 and loved them. The E70's interior just looks so dated now the F15 is out. The thing I don't want is, to spend a fortune on a car that is going to be a money pit. Doesn't matter how wealthy you are I don't think anyone wants to waste unnecessary money on any car, but even more so on a car at this price point.
It's interesting you traded the Touareg. Didn't want another one??
My wife actually likes to 'drive' cars which is why I initially looked at the X5. I wanted a car for her that still drove like a car but had a bit of 4wd ability. We were possibly going to move to the country at that time and there are lots of big animals in the Australian bush that like to jump out at you on the road so it also had to be safe.


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## veery (Feb 25, 2015)

Kylinski said:


> Poor excuse. BMW are responsible for ALL of their product as far as I'm concerned.


I was just saying, don't blame the engineers for component failure. (I am not an engineer apologist. Having been a mechanic for years I often find fault with their work when the time comes to fix what is broken. Design only rarely takes into account the need for repair later.)


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## gtk87 (Jun 24, 2015)

salfield;9148644
It's interesting you traded the Touareg. Didn't want another one??
My wife actually likes to 'drive' cars which is why I initially looked at the X5. I wanted a car for her that still drove like a car but had a bit of 4wd ability. We were possibly going to move to the country at that time and there are lots of big animals in the Australian bush that like to jump out at you on the road so it also had to be safe.[/QUOTE said:


> my wife loved the touareg. we were 200 miles away from servicing the diesel using the dealer and having to deal with the bluetec solution became a burden.
> 
> we spend around 30k miles a year driving on the long highways of rural Texas and the highlander is a beast on the highway. easily drives at 85mph all day and is comfortable.
> around town it is not an X5 but it meets her needs and i can deal with on long family outings.
> ...


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## bighorns (Mar 6, 2013)

veery said:


> I was just saying, don't blame the engineers for component failure. (I am not an engineer apologist. Having been a mechanic for years I often find fault with their work when the time comes to fix what is broken. Design only rarely takes into account the need for repair later.)


In the 80's GM was known to design a body, then tell their engineers to figure out how to stuff a drive-train in. Made the cars difficult to repair at times.


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## wowblaise (Jun 23, 2015)

salfield said:


> Thanks dvarela. It seems I'm not going to get what I am looking for. Kia seems to get a bashing here.
> Not trying to be rude either but "it's the ultimate driving machine" is a wonderful catch phrase, but why is it?? My wife likes to drive her cars and can appreciate a car. I probably sold her short by saying a car is a car to her but so far I have two answers that do not give me any rationale as to why BMW is better than a..***8230; Kia or something else. I thought BMW enthusiasts would be able to say you are paying for "better engineering""better components""better suspension" stuff like that.


If you have to ask "Why buy a BMW" you've answered your question.

It's like asking "*Why can you disable traction control*" or "*why would you ever switch off eco pro mode*"?

p.s. The answer is "*BECAUSE IT'S FUN*!" Clearly your wife doesn't consider the fun factor as a selling point. No judgement. You question "the ultimate driving machine" as a marketing tag-line. I'd love for you to understand that sentence...... No one can tell you what the matrix is Neo. If you love to drive, test drive one, then you don't have to ask 

VW has an SUV that's got the German sophistication in the cabin, the smooth ride, and the refinement. Mazda has some fantastic machines that are crossovers. I just test drove a TON of cars. Mazda is my choice for feature/value and it's tremendously reliable. If driving my car wasn't ALSO my hobby I would never have bought by bimmers.

Finally, this forum isn't a KIA bashing forum. But if a LOT of car guys say "never buy the Hyundai/KIA" maybe you should listen? If you then ask "why" you are asking for bashing. I don't care what the question is, the answer is NEVER KIAyundai....


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## salfield (Jun 17, 2015)

wowblaise said:


> If you have to ask "Why buy a BMW" you've answered your question.
> 
> It's like asking "*Why can you disable traction control*" or "*why would you ever switch off eco pro mode*"?
> 
> ...


Firstly I didn't say it was a Kia bashing forum I merely said that everyone that said go and buy another car if you don't like it said go buy a Kia. I was trying to be funny as Kia was mentioned each time. Have a look at the JD power rankings, Kia and Hyundai are way above average for reliability so they must be doing something right. 
Secondly you are correct my wife doesn't consider the fun factor as a selling point in a car. She could get a whole lot of fun for the extra $50000 we pay over another brand of car. 
The reason I asked the question was to see if someone could provide an educated answer as to why the consumer pays more for a car that has less features than other vehicles on the market. Your answer is because they are fun. Which is great for you but it's not what I would expect a person to explain why they are paying a premium for a car. 
Other people have suggested that they car stands up better to the salt roads around there place which would imply that a BMW uses better materials than other makers. That is the sort of stuff that I thought people would be throwing at me. 
I think the answer to my question is "THERE IS NO ANSWER"


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