# Look into my crystal ball: The future 1/3/4/5/6/7 series...



## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

With all the excitement surrounding the recent information regarding future E90 releases, I thought I would provide a complete list of what I know so far regarding the future of BMW. As time passes, I will be doing my best to check and re-check my sources for additional support of any and all claims. None of this is "official"... it's simply the best inside information that I am able to gather at this given time.

E90 sedan: MY07 (Sept. '06 production) 328i and 335i
The 3 series wagon will go to the East coast first... as it already is... we should see it early 2006. 
E92 coupe should start production in June 2006 as a 325Ci and 330Ci (current 215/255hp) and then... after 2 months of production... will be bumped to the 328Ci and 335Ci along side the sedan starting with Sept '06 production. The convertible should be a soft top starting production with the coupe... or following 6-9 months later at the latest.

V8 powered M3 should start production early 2007 as an early MY08.

4 series (baby 6 series)... coupe and convertible only (folding hard top)... 435Ci/435Cic likely to be a MY08 followed closely by an M4 soon after. 4 series convertible spy pic seen below... and yes, I know this has been referred to as the coming 3 series... but I do believe that to be wrong.










5 series will follow suit with the E90... 528i/535i in MY07

As I said earlier... the 760i will be replaced by the 500+hp Alpina B7... that will be a monster!

Face lifted Z4 to start production in Feb 2006 as a 3.0i/3.0si... and then later as an M roadster in June 2006 when the Z4 coupe (non M) starts production as well. I'm unsure, at this point, how the 3 series changes will effect the Z series. Expect the 6 cylinder M roadster to be a very short run. We think that the car was built for the V8 to begin with and expect to see a V8 (from the coming M3/M4) in future M roadster and M coupe.

X3 will follow the MY07 X5's lead with the new 255hp engine from the current E90 330i. We will also get the 3.0d in the X3 as well as the X5.
X5 will start production late '06 early '07... as well as having the 255hp 3.0L... the internationally famous diesel will finally be available. Also expect to see the 360hp V8 in the upper end X5... what we will see in place of the current 4.8is... still working on that one. I do believe it in genuinely feasible that we will finally see an M version of the X5,because the new 7 Speed SMG is so good... so much smoother... it has become more plausible. Besides, we need a valid competitor to the Turbo Cayenne and the AMG version of the ML.

1 series... should be MY08

V3 and V5... also likely to be MY08, but could be a little later.

We will also see the Z10... finally... a super car. And it should be a bargain at that. My guess... around MY08 or MY09 as well.

Please remember that even though I'm quite serious about this information... I'm posting it mostly for fun. I wouldn't consider any of it to be the "official word" from BMW until the appropriate people with that authority make those types of announcements make them. Especially since we all know BMW seems able to change direction on a dime. My sources are generally very good... and I enjoy the speculation.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

We are suppose to get the M5 touring... should be within the year.

There will be a convertible M6... originally we were getting one... then for over a year we weren't... it is now certain that we will get the M6 convertible.
:thumbup:


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## BMWenthusiast (Feb 27, 2005)

nice contemplation on available information as well as some guessing, im excited, just becuase i hadn't realized how many different models were being released


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

BMWenthusiast said:


> nice contemplation on available information as well as some guessing, im excited, just becuase i hadn't realized how many different models were being released


Yeah... me too! The goal seems to be expansion of the audience with out pulling from other models. The V series will go toe to toe with the MB R class as well as others... and it seems to me that the brand is reaching a level of maturity that rivals the imagination. I'm extremely excited to be a part of the brand.  The next several years will be unbelievable. :thumbup: It will be fun to see how much of this list becomes a reality. I'm still feeling the pain of the Turbo's withdrawal. :tsk:


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## damills (Nov 6, 2002)

*3-series/4-series folding top, moonroof and please ventilated seats*



SpeedFreak! said:


> E90 sedan: MY07 (Sept. '06 production) 328i and 335i
> The 3 series wagon will go to the East coast first... as it already is... we should see it early 2006.
> E92 coupe should start production in June 2006 as a 325Ci and 330Ci (current 215/255hp) and then... after 2 months of production... will be bumped to the 328Ci and 335Ci along side the sedan starting with Sept '06 production. The convertible should be a soft top starting production with the coupe... or following 6-9 months later at the latest.
> 
> ...


Just so I get the right, your saying there will be a 3-series and 4-series at the same time, not just a rebadge of the 3-series coupe/vert to 4-series coupe/vert 

I for one hope all this is true, I like the idea of a folding hardtop, I like the coupe because of the moonroof, like the convertible for summer, IMO would be the best of both worlds. Just like your spypic above, looks like a moonroof in the folding top :thumbup:

Ive said many times before, I was hoping the next generation will make me want to trade as bad as when I first seen the E46, I traded my 1998 323isa for a 2000 323cia, and yes they definetly saw me coming :yumyum: they knew they had me, I ordered one of the first E46 at the dealership. I still feel its the best looking BMW ever built (just my opinion) but 310hp, folding hardtop with a moonroof and only if they would add ventilated seats, I would definetly trade, at first I didnt like the E90 but after driving one for a week (330i), I started liking it, I was pondering on getting the coupe (trading the 04 325cia) but if this pans out, Im definetly going to get one 

I think ventilated seats have been needed in convertibles for a long time, I would wager alot of people would pay up to $2k for ventilated seats in a convertible, maybe wrong, hope its alot cheaper but I would pay for the option :thumbup:


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

damills said:


> I for one hope all this is true, I like the idea of a folding hardtop, I like the coupe because of the moonroof, like the convertible for summer, IMO would be the best of both worlds. Just like your spypic above, looks like a moonroof in the folding top :thumbup:


Unfortunately, thats not believed to be a moonroof. It appears that its just painted black metal. I guess there is a slim chance its a "heavily" tinted, in which that would be cool, but at MSRP of $65ish base its pushed out of my price range anyway.

What I don't understand, and just realized is that SpeedFreak makes no mention of the 2 Series. There is actualy a "limited" number of spy shots here:

http://www.thecarblog.com/euro_cars/bmw_2_series_and_m2.php

Agh,
-Brett


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> Unfortunately, thats not believed to be a moonroof. It appears that its just painted black metal. I guess there is a slim chance its a "heavily" tinted, in which that would be cool, but at MSRP of $65ish base its pushed out of my price range anyway.
> 
> What I don't understand, and just realized is that SpeedFreak makes no mention of the 2 Series. There is actualy a "limited" number of spy shots here:
> 
> ...


  Aahh... I'm holding onto that one for at least a little while. I will let you know soon... possibly... what I know about this sweet piece of potentiality. :thumbup:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

damills said:


> Just so I get the right, your saying there will be a 3-series and 4-series at the same time, not just a rebadge of the 3-series coupe/vert to 4-series coupe/vert
> 
> I for one hope all this is true, I like the idea of a folding hardtop, I like the coupe because of the moonroof, like the convertible for summer, IMO would be the best of both worlds. Just like your spypic above, looks like a moonroof in the folding top :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Yes... that's right... both a 3 series and a 4. We first were told that the 4 series would replace the 3 series coupe. This was the plan, but was scrapped because of brand value and recognition. There was no way they could justify the elimination of the M3. No way. So the the 3 series will be leaner and meaner... the M3 will be it's "barely street legal race car" trim, while the 4 series and the M4 will be heavier luxury filled touring coupes, like the 6 series. I think the photo I posted shows exposed black metal surrounded by camouflage... intentionally trying to look like a moon-roof so that people don't think that it's a folding hard top. :eeps:

Here are some other pics... I'm sure you've seen these, but I will include what I think they are. Remember that the first pic I posted has been published all over the place as the coming 3 series. Won't it be cool if bimmerfest turns out to be the first place it's correctly labeled a 4 series. 

Remember... I'm sure you have seem these before... I'm sure they are photo-shop concepts and certainly not considered official information. BUT... they do help formulate an understanding of BMW's future plans for production.

4 series convertible:









M6 convertible:









Possible V5:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

More possible pics of what a V series could look like:


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## 2008-130ci (Oct 12, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> What I don't understand, and just realized is that SpeedFreak makes no mention of the 2 Series. There is actualy a "limited" number of spy shots here:
> 
> http://www.thecarblog.com/euro_cars/bmw_2_series_and_m2.php
> 
> ...


Just to let you know... those arn't real images.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

> E92 coupe should start production in June 2006 as a 325Ci and 330Ci (current 215/255hp) and then... after 2 months of production... will be bumped to the 328Ci and 335Ci


Want to re-check your source regarding this information?

It would be a lot easier for BMW to shift the release time 2 months and launch the Coupe with the new engines, wouldn't it?


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

2008-130ci said:


> Just to let you know... those arn't real images.


I am completely aware of that... and even stated it in my post. It is... however... a potential direction and is currently a very serious case study. That was my point.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Alex Baumann said:


> Want to re-check your source regarding this information?
> 
> It would be a lot easier for BMW to shift the release time 2 months and launch the Coupe with the new engines, wouldn't it?


I have been working on this one for the last few days... it has me the most confused. When I first heard it, I told my source he was full of sh!t... in many ways... I still think he is, but... some of the things he said as to why they would do this made sense. _To a degree._ It had to do with initial symmetry with the original E90 release. Like I have said, Alex, I'm in complete shock over these changes. I hope to get further clarification over the next couple of days. I'll keep you posted. :thumbup:

Just in case this detail has been unclear... we will get a 3rd row option in the coming X5.


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

2008-130ci said:


> Just to let you know... those arn't real images.


Looking at them again, I completely agree, that was a slip and I should hit myself for it! To be honest I don't follow the 1 series at all, and it was like 2am in the morning and I just searched for spy shots and 1 series and posted a link. Looking at them today I can clearly see they should have more of disguise if they were real images.

-Brett


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

SpeedFreak! said:


> I told my source he was full of sh!t... in many ways... I still think he is...


Ok... so this is all coming from one single source, and can not be confirmed by anyone else? That calms me down a bit. I do think this needs to be clearify and handled promptly. Apparently one person has already cancelled his order, and others are delaying purchases. I personally am considering going to Lexus as the 4 series you described is bumped way out of my price range. We really need a second confirmation. Tine, who I know you saw, was posting quotes from a guy by the name of "Scott26". Scott is not a "middle-man" he is the actual source, and works for the BMW Corporate Office in Germany.

-Brett


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> Ok... so this is all coming from one single source, and can not be confirmed by anyone else? That calms me down a bit. I do think this needs to be clearify and handled promptly. Apparently one person has already cancelled his order, and others are delaying purchases. I personally am considering going to Lexus as the 4 series you described is bumped way out of my price range. We really need a second confirmation. Tine, who I know you saw, was posting quotes from a guy by the name of "Scott26". Scott is not a "middle-man" he is the actual source, and works for the BMW Corporate Office in Germany.
> 
> -Brett


No... at least 6 different sources. I was referring to my original conversation. After hearing again and again... I changed my position.

Remember my position. I have stated it clearly throughout these threads. There are multiple strands of information. Tine's claim was the exact same position I was originally defending in the "335" thread. It was only after checking with my sources that I changed my position.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

SpeedFreak! said:


> The goal seems to be expansion of the audience with out pulling from other models.


The author of _Driven_ says this exactly. It's easier to try and pick up niche audiences with one model, but the final product will probably be diluted for everyone.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

FenPhen said:


> The author of _Driven_ says this exactly. It's easier to try and pick up niche audiences with one model, but the final product will probably be diluted for everyone.


Exactly... it will be fun, in light of recent changes... to see what actually happens. That's why I thought this would be a fun thread. Not because I'm certain that these strands of information are certain, but because it will be cool to look back at this "record" for a point of comparison with the eventual reality. At least that was my intent. :angel:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Here's an interesting piece of information. I was reviewing the 2006 Retail Forecast report... and check this out. :yikes:

We show, for 2006, the following:

Z4 Cpe 3.0
Z4 2.5si
Z4 3.0si
*M coupe * 
M roadster
M6
*M6 convertible...* Hmm... :eeps:


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## klu123 (Nov 4, 2005)

335i and 535i - for sure or just a wild guess? Any info about the 3.5L I-6?

I posted a question before asking whether there will be a bigger I-6 for 330i/530i/X5 3.0 for MY2007. So far the answers are all "No", since the 255HP 3.0L is new.

If the 3.5L is a reality (I do hope so), it should be at least as powerful as the 3.6L V-8 (270HP) previously used in 535i and 735i.


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

iateyourcheese said:


> If you look at some of the other BMW engines, they end up right around 100 N-m per liter of displacement. So, a good guess would be 3.5*100N-m = 350N-m = 258 lb-ft.
> 
> Look at the current engines:
> 2.5L -> 250 N-m
> ...


I am assuming that is for the 335i? I am more interested in the 328.


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## iateyourcheese (Sep 9, 2004)

Well, it will slot between the 2.5 and the 3.0L, so maybe assuming the performance of a 2.8L wouldn't be off.

2.8*100 N-m = 280 N-m = 206 ft-lb.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> Well... they have been testing the Coupe / Convertible for about the same amount of time, where with the 6-series the coupe was clearly spied well before the cabrio, so I guess its possible.
> 
> *Just to confirm, if I understand you now, your leaning towards the 3-Series Convertible being a Hardtop coming out between June 2006 & January 2007 as model 328 and 335? Correct? * Before, all of this came out, I was thinking the same thing, although I figured it would swing closer to January than June. Eitherway, I believe, if I understand you correctly, that this is not only good news, but great news...
> 
> ...


Correct.

As for the 4 series... it's at least two years away... some time in 2007. It's real simple... take a 3 series coupe and convertible... add 300-400lbs of crap... luxury crap, like more size and room, more sound deadening, techno-stuff, etc... obviously a different look... and there you go. 4 series. It should... in no way... effect the 3 series sales or brand in any way. Just another niche option from the builders of the Ultimate Driving Machine. :thumbup:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

iateyourcheese said:


> If you look at some of the other BMW engines, they end up right around 100 N-m per liter of displacement. So, a good guess would be 3.5*100N-m = 350N-m = 258 lb-ft.
> 
> Look at the current engines:
> 2.5L -> 250 N-m
> ...


That's some really great speculation about the torque... and as soon as I have something solid... I'll let you know.


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

SpeedFreak! said:


> As for the 4 series... it's at least two years away... some time in 2007. It's real simple... take a 3 series coupe and convertible... add 300-400lbs of crap... luxury crap, like more size and room, more sound deadening, techno-stuff, etc... obviously a different look... and there you go. 4 series:


Well, this is excellent news. It gives me a car to consider upgrading to in several years, I might not be able to afford it now, but 2011 or so it probably will not be an issue, and right in the middle of its life cycle.

So, since I am picking your brain... I have to ask. Where the heck did the idea for the softtop coming back come from? Was just a single source, speculation, some random paper, what? Cause you really had me "freaked" out there, no pun intended.

-Brett


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> Well, this is excellent news. It gives me a car to consider upgrading to in several years, I might not be able to afford it now, but 2011 or so it probably will not be an issue, and right in the middle of its life cycle.
> 
> So, since I am picking your brain... I have to ask. Where the heck did the idea for the softtop coming back come from? Was just a single source, speculation, some random paper, what? Cause you really had me "freaked" out there, no pun intended.
> 
> -Brett


Some of my sources are exact... some are really great... some are...  ...well, rather convincing, but can be outside of the mainstream. Problem is... they all can and have been right from time to time.


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

SpeedFreak! said:


> some are...  ...well, rather convincing, but can be outside of the mainstream. Problem is... they all can and have been right from time to time.


Well everyone could guess and be right from time to time , what makes there guess so much more special?

Needless to say, if this turns out to be my 3-Series hardtop convertible I will be most happy...









-Brett


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## damills (Nov 6, 2002)

Brett3 said:


> Well everyone could guess and be right from time to time , what makes there guess so much more special?
> 
> Needless to say, if this turns out to be my 3-Series hardtop convertible I will be most happy...
> 
> ...


First mod, replace both side mirrors :yikes:


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## obmd1 (Jan 17, 2005)

damills said:


> First mod, replace both side mirrors :yikes:


that of course would be after removing the 800 pounds of cladding and duct tape all over that thing so that I could see what it REALLY looks like....


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

obmd1 said:


> so that I could see what it REALLY looks like....


This is supposingly a real "accurate" interpretion...


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## obmd1 (Jan 17, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> This is supposingly a real "accurate" interpretion...


um, yeah.... like most information in this thread, I am cautiously optimistic, recognizing most of it is smoke....

I liked the spy p-shops of the z4 Mcoupe, too... but hardly close to accurate. 

we'll see....


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## Orangefiv5 (Oct 27, 2005)

I think they look alright but I don't think they will replace the 3. The 3 is the sugar!


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## damills (Nov 6, 2002)

*Interesting article about Spartanburg plant*

Interesting article, take a look http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051117/BUSINESS/511170322 maybe this is why SOP of the MZ4 has been delayed until February


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

damills said:


> Interesting article, take a look http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051117/BUSINESS/511170322 maybe this is why SOP of the MZ4 has been delayed until February


Nice find! :thumbup:


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## tierfreund (Nov 12, 2004)

damills said:


> First mod, replace both side mirrors :yikes:


Don´t worry, the orange strip is just camouflage. BMW does that all the time.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

damills said:


> Interesting article, take a look http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051117/BUSINESS/511170322 maybe this is why SOP of the MZ4 has been delayed until February


Exactly... :thumbup:

Hey... BTW... to further substantiate our position... BMW FS just (11-17) announced a new Lease Special for 24 months... Hmmm... why do you think they chose 24 months? History will support that a lease special like this precedes a change of some kind that BMW FS knows will impact future car values. The following cars are included in the special:
325i changing to the 328i in MY07 (Sept'06 production)
525i changing to the 528i in MY07 (Sept'06 production)
X3 changing to the new motor in MY07 (Sept'06 production)
X5 complete change in MY07 (Sept'06 production)

The 330/530/X5 4.4 are limited enough in their production that they don't need a supported program like the entry level (more mass produced) cars do in order to insure that there is no back log of inventory.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

tierfreund said:


> Don´t worry, the orange strip is just camouflage. BMW does that all the time.


Yeah... notice the M5... no tacky orange turn signals. BMW is the bomb when it comes to stealth and style. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Look what we have here:

Looky, looky -


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## Brett3 (Oct 29, 2005)

So any updates Speed?

-Brett


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Brett3 said:


> So any updates Speed?
> 
> -Brett


Sorry... I haven't been watching these threads lately. There has been no new info lately... but then again... I haven't been snooping either. I'll make a few calls tomorrow. :thumbup:


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