# Porsche Panamera - 4 door, $75K M5 Killer?



## BeRzErKaS (Jan 1, 2004)

Some new articles on the 2009 Panamera have confirmed some details regarding available engine combos and estimated pricing. They list the entry level 500hp naturally aspirated V8 @ 75K and the top-of-the-line 700hp Bi-Turbo V10 at just around 120k. There are, of course, some other combos in between.

Sounds to me like BMW is really gonna have it's hands full in the next couple of years. While we drool over the E60 M5 other car manuf. already have assassins lying in wait!

I don't know how much longer BMW can stay strictly N/A and remain competitive in this market. Personally, I would have loved to see a 500 hp supercharged V8 in the E60 M5. Then N/A and S/C V10 options for the next generation. 

Anyone have any inside info on what BMW is planning for the 2009/10 model years? Weren't there rumors of a turbo 330 closing the gap between the N/A 3 series and the M3?

BMW better get those engineers to work...ASAP!


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## BeRzErKaS (Jan 1, 2004)

*Panamera*


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

BeRzErKaS said:


> They list the entry level 500hp naturally aspirated V8 @ 75K and the top-of-the-line 700hp Bi-Turbo V10 at just around 120k.


 That'd be 75k pounds sterling, or USD133,000. I think the M5 is safe for now.


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## 528i (May 1, 2004)

Cliff3 said:


> That'd be 75k pounds sterling, or USD133,000. I think the M5 is safe for now.


Cars tend to be quite expensive in the UK.

It is usually accurate to say a car (depending on manufacturer) is £120k in the UK, while its only $130-40k in the US.


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

No comparison between M5 and Porsche 4 door,

One is a large sport sedan, the other is a small 2+2 with four doors. Also, the luxury and comfort in Porsches has always been secondary to performance.

Porsche is a awesome car, but caters to a different market.


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

BeRzErKaS said:


> Some new articles on the 2009 Panamera have confirmed some details regarding available engine combos and estimated pricing. They list the entry level 500hp naturally aspirated V8 @ 75K and the top-of-the-line 700hp Bi-Turbo V10 at just around 120k. There are, of course, some other combos in between.


Cool thanks for the informatoin. Car looks really nice too. And that's 700 brake hp... wow. Those back seats look really cramped, or were designed with midgets in mind. 
I also like the agressive angle of the front head lights.



BeRzErKaS said:


> Sounds to me like BMW is really gonna have it's hands full in the next couple of years. While we drool over the E60 M5 other car manuf. already have assassins lying in wait!


Maybe not from Porsche, as someone already stated the car is priced in pounds. But, it looks like they are facing stiffer competition, which translates to more, better, cheaper! choices for the consumer. I love it.



BeRzErKaS said:


> I don't know how much longer BMW can stay strictly N/A and remain competitive in this market. Personally, I would have loved to see a 500 hp supercharged V8 in the E60 M5. Then N/A and S/C V10 options for the next generation.


So if and when BMW switched to force induction, does that mean all the BMW fanboys who've been poo-pooing forced induction all these years will suddenly start singing the merits of forced induction, because, you know, they are fanboys?



BeRzErKaS said:


> Anyone have any inside info on what BMW is planning for the 2009/10 model years? Weren't there rumors of a turbo 330 closing the gap between the N/A 3 series and the M3?


I'd like to see it happen. VW just recently announced a twincharger, a hybrid between supercharger and turbo. You get the low end torque of the super charger, with the high end torgue of a turbo. I bet in a few years time, the technology will evolve to something really really cool.


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

No way is the Panamera gonna be priced below 99K in the USA.

Stuka won't like it -- wet sump! :rofl:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

700 HP! :yikes: 

That is just overkill.


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

WILLIA///M said:


> 700 HP! :yikes:
> 
> That is just overkill.


BMW's 500 hp is certainly not conservative. What is truly sad about these cars is: You know how we've seen all those Carrera GT and ENZO wrecks? Well with four door supercars like that, I'd say we will see an increase in fatalities.


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

misterlance said:


> BMW's 500 hp is certainly not conservative. *What is truly sad about these cars *is: You know how we've seen all those Carrera GT and ENZO wrecks? Well with four door supercars like that, I'd say we will see an increase in fatalities.


Though I don't know for sure, something tells me you'll change your mind once you own one.


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## Hercules (Jul 15, 2002)

That is one of the most hideous cars ever!


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

528i said:


> Cars tend to be quite expensive in the UK.
> 
> It is usually accurate to say a car (depending on manufacturer) is £120k in the UK, while its only $130-40k in the US.


Cars in the UK tend to be more expensive, on the face of it. Just knock delivery/registration charges and VAT off the UK price, multiply by forex, adjust for spec and hedging, and away you go:

M5: £62,700 on the road
less delivery: £62,000
less registration: £61,700
less VAT: £52,595

x $/£ FX: *$91,250* (@ 1.735 $/£)

US base price: $81,200
Add options for parity with UK spec: $3,300
Total: *$84,500*

That's $6,570 to explain away by market pricing and hedging.

By the same token, a £75k Porsche would end up at around $110k, if sold today under the equivalent market conditions - or nearly $30,000 more than an M5.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Looks like a Pontiac Solstice on steriods. :rofl:


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## DaKine (Aug 17, 2005)

Cliff3 said:


> That'd be 75k pounds sterling, or USD133,000. I think the M5 is safe for now.


I dunno, I think this car looks awesome. Not only that, but a dealership close to my house is selling the M5 for about $110k... Once you are paying over $100k for a car, an extra $33k isn't a whole lot.

Honestly, I would take the 700hp Porsche in a heartbeat.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

DaKine said:


> I dunno, I think this car looks awesome. Not only that, but a dealership close to my house is selling the M5 for about $110k... Once you are paying over $100k for a car, an extra $33k isn't a whole lot.
> 
> Honestly, I would take the 700hp Porsche in a heartbeat.


 I was mainly noting in my post that the OP read $ when the article said £.

I like the look of the Porsche too, although I bet if I had to be a backseat passenger I'd rather be in the M5. WRT 'market adjustments' to new car prices I doubt Porsches are any more immune to those than new M models are. Porsche dealers will sell those cars for a premium over MSRP too, until demand and supply reach some sort of equilibrium.

Finally, it's highly unlikely I'll ever pay an amount near $100k for a car, let alone more than that. I like cars, but not enough to dedicate that kind of resources on one.


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## DaKine (Aug 17, 2005)

Cliff3 said:


> I was mainly noting in my post that the OP read $ when the article said £.
> 
> I like the look of the Porsche too, although I bet if I had to be a backseat passenger I'd rather be in the M5. WRT 'market adjustments' to new car prices I doubt Porsches are any more immune to those than new M models are. Porsche dealers will sell those cars for a premium over MSRP too, until demand and supply reach some sort of equilibrium.
> 
> Finally, it's highly unlikely I'll ever pay an amount near $100k for a car, let alone more than that. I like cars, but not enough to dedicate that kind of resources on one.


Yeah, I agree, and thats true, "market adjustments" will probably push the Porsche closer to $200k.

I am just getting more and more disenchanted with BMWs future direction. I love the new M6, and I like the New Z4 Coupe, but other than that, I dunno.... maybe its just me :dunno: :dunno:


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

BeRzErKaS said:


> Some new articles on the 2009 Panamera have confirmed some details regarding available engine ...


I can assure you one thing.... There will NOT be an E60 M5 being produced for 2009 Model Year.  By then... the E60 will be out of production. :rofl: So this is moot point comparing this P-car due out in 3~4 years vs. something that was designed 3 years ago 

You need to compare the spec of the F series M5er vs this P-car


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

beewang said:


> I can assure you one thing.... There will NOT be an E60 M5 being produced for 2009 Model Year.


Only a 3 year run for the M5?

:yikes:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

*First photos of the test mule*




























_Source: Autobild_


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## Burrogs (May 2, 2005)

Isn't this more a competitor for the Mercedes CLS 55 or 63, or whatever it is now:dunno:


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## Asteroid (Aug 17, 2005)

Alex Baumann said:


> _Source: Autobild_


Is the shape reminiscent of a Rover of years past?


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## picus (Jun 2, 2006)

I actually really, really, really like it. eep.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

That's it, first the Cayenne, now this, Porsche is officially no longer a part of the respected German auto automakers, the only thing they are holding onto the true enthusiasts (by their fingernails) with is the european 997 GT3.


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

atyclb said:


> Only a 3 year run for the M5?
> 
> :yikes:


4 years for the rest of the world. Same as the previous M5 I believe (a 3 year run for NA spec as well).

Porsche will definitely make sure they get the timing right for the Panamera in 2009.

BTW I do realize I'm replying an old post.


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

BmW745On19's said:


> the respected German auto automakers


Is there anyone still in that category?


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## SP330 (Apr 9, 2006)

armaq said:


> Is there anyone still in that category?


Only Audi.

BMW sold out to badge whores like mercedes did a while ago.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

_Source: Auto, Motor & Sport_


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## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

Alex Baumann said:


> _Source: Auto, Motor & Sport_


I hope it looks better when they finish with it:eeps: I wonder what the 500 HP version will be priced at:dunno:


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## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

I think when the new twin-turbo Skyline comes in all these cars will be getting a run for their money.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Looks like a Maxima or that ugly Maseratti.


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## JumpMan495 (Jul 30, 2006)

amen

this E39 M5 will be my last BMW if they continously getting their ass whipped by Mercedes AMG, Audi's RS series, and now the porsche sedan. i'm tired of driving a car thats not getting respect on the traffic light


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## wwb4 (Dec 29, 2005)

Alex Baumann said:


> _Source: Auto, Motor & Sport_


I can only hope that the production model looks better than that pic........because that car looks pretty hideous.


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## E92 (Aug 12, 2006)

spy videos:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=118777


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)




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## mtbscott (Jul 16, 2003)

I am in full agreement that all the spy shots are tres fugly. I also believe that the final production car will be smokin glamorous and will sell like hot cakes at least for a while.


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## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Alex Baumann said:


>


What's up with those rims? Do they have telemetry in them or are they just there for the purpose of hiding info? Or both?


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

SmoothCruise said:


> What's up with those rims? Do they have telemetry in them or are they just there for the purpose of hiding info? Or both?


Typical prototype covers.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Porsche needs to get a reality check very soon. I thought I'd never see the day where someone could go to a dealership and buy an ugly, bulbous luxobarge with a Porsche badge slapped on it.:tsk:


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## BumBMW (Feb 8, 2007)

There is something wrong with the looks. It appears they cut the Cayman behind the B-pillars and re-welded the back seats.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

BmW745On19's said:


> Porsche needs to get a reality check very soon. I thought I'd never see the day where someone could go to a dealership and buy an ugly, bulbous luxobarge with a Porsche badge slapped on it.:tsk:


Says the guy that bought an ugly, bulbous luxobarge with a BMW badge slapped on it. :stickpoke


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I agree, even as a prototype it looks awful. It looks as if they took a 911 and chopped the rear and welded the rear half of another car to it.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

BmW745On19's said:


> I thought I'd never see the day where someone could go to a dealership and buy an ugly, bulbous luxobarge with a Porsche badge slapped on it.:tsk:


Isn't that what most people said about the Cayenne when it first hit showrooms?

Ha, the Panamera looks like a Citroen CX/XM/C6 -- a big, pointy ended hatchback looking thing with an amorphous blob for an ass.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

cwsqbm said:


> Says the guy that bought an ugly, bulbous luxobarge with a BMW badge slapped on it. :stickpoke


Ouch. :flame:


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

elbert said:


> Isn't that what most people said about the Cayenne when it first hit showrooms?
> 
> Ha, the Panamera looks like a Citroen CX/XM/C6 -- a big, pointy ended hatchback looking thing with an amorphous blob for an ass.


Yeah, and I still think its ugly and it got even uglier with the newest evolution of it.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I can't find the words to describe this creature on wheels.


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## BumBMW (Feb 8, 2007)

Alex Baumann said:


> I can't find the words to describe this creature on wheels.


Hideous.

I would stick with the Merc "clam sheel" class, or whatever the name is. I saw that merc in person the other day and it is pretty stunning.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Words can not describe how ugly this thing is. :tsk:


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## #5880 (Feb 11, 2006)

It looks like the next generation Lexus :dunno:


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> I can't find the words to describe this creature on wheels.


It looks like a stretch 911 (and a desparate plea for new business). Imagine what it will look like once the Vegas stretch limo crowd has at it.


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## swajames (Jan 16, 2005)

It's a test mule. 

I'm not expecting the Panamera to look like these prototypes any more than I expected BMW to release a car that looked like this little prototype beauty...


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

swajames said:


> It's a test mule.
> 
> I'm not expecting the Panamera to look like these prototypes any more than I expected BMW to release a car that looked like this little prototype beauty...


That is not a test mule, thats a concept car with body cladding to protect its identity.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

swajames said:


> It's a test mule.
> 
> I'm not expecting the Panamera to look like these prototypes any more than I expected BMW to release a car that looked like this little prototype beauty...


I have seen many prototypes through the years and I have maybe over one-hundred photos of past prototypes on my harddrive.

The photo you have posted is a very early stage BMW prototype from the year 2005. Codename V5 during that time, it's identity have been revealed later as the upcoming X6. It was being used to develop the suspension for the X6.

The Panamera photos that I have posted are showing a prototype, which is in an advanced stage, where the body form is almost completed. There will be slight differences here and there, but overall it will remain the same as it's shown in the photos.

Here are a couple of other V5 photos for your archives


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## #5880 (Feb 11, 2006)

I'll pay anything for that car!

One condition......

paint it pink! :rofl:


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