# Anyone w/out sunroof



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Hmm...

I having some second thoughts. Not about getting an M3, but about my order. It isn't yet scheduled for prod. (dealer says the week of 3/21) so there may be still time to change.

My thoughts....

Delete the Premium package, but option back in the Napa Leather (for my Cinammon int) and Power Seats.

This eliminates the Power Moonroof, Bluetooth, and BMW Assist (anything else in Premium, I don't think so).

Now in addition, add in an option I didn't have before, the 19" M Double Spoke Alloy wheels.

What this essentially does to my order is substitute the Moonroof, Bluetooth, and BMW Asist for the 19" M Alloy wheels. Adds $545 to my MSRP.

I like the 18" wheels, but I keep thinking about the 19".

Any thoughts? Gotta act quickly.

Dean


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

dwette said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I having some second thoughts. Not about getting an M3, but about my order. It isn't yet scheduled for prod. (dealer says the week of 3/21) so there may be still time to change.
> 
> ...


I love my sunroof !!! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I would feel horrible not having it...the breeze is soooooo nice in the summer.

Just my opinion.

Congrats on the new car to come.


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## Niftster (Dec 5, 2004)

dwette said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I having some second thoughts. Not about getting an M3, but about my order. It isn't yet scheduled for prod. (dealer says the week of 3/21) so there may be still time to change.
> 
> ...


I've been told a sunroof helps a lot with resale. I havent seen many bimmers without one, although I personally dont really care either way.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

What's the question here? If you want the hole in the roof get it, if not, then don't... :dunno: 

I don't have a sunroof. Never miss it. It's a waste of money, adds weight, and lowers head room/helmet space.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

bren said:


> What's the question here? If you want the hole in the roof get it, if not, then don't... :dunno:
> 
> I don't have a sunroof. Never miss it. It's a waste of money, adds weight, and lowers head room/helmet space.


 :stupid: couldn't agree more


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

rumratt said:


> Sunroofs are an incarnation of the devil. So is leather.
> 
> Skip both to create a bigger market of track cars later.
> 
> I just bought an older BMW and sunroof and leather are the two aspects I like the least. The leather is worn to hell, and the sunroof makes wind noise and takes away headroom I really could have used. :tsk:


 :rofl: :rofl:

Go sunroof baby !!! its all about the driving experience :thumbup:


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

rumratt said:


> Sunroofs are an incarnation of the devil. So is leather.


 :thumbup:

Now you're learning


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## ast (Feb 20, 2005)

I just ordered by M3 and waiting too. Being through my version of changing orders twice:

first adding the spoiler which I decided to delete but changed my mind.
then adding sunroof, again, I didn't order in the first place.


Advice:

KEEP the Premium Package! Sunroof will be good for you unless you want to be on track more than 50% of your driving time. And the rectangular rear view mirror coming with PP is MUCH better than the default oval shaped one! 

Leather is good too in a long run and for most people. 


have peace in mind and be glad that you have made a good choice!


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

flashinthepan said:


> I love my sunroof !!! :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> I would feel horrible not having it...the breeze is soooooo nice in the summer.
> 
> ...


If you have long torso and are tall, sunroof spells doom for your DE days.

I am 6'2" with 32" inseam, and when I had my no sunroof M3, I BARELY fit in it with my helmet on. :thumbdwn:

Doeboy has to sit crooked when he drives on the track with helmet on. Sunroof is stupid if you track and are tall.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Niftster said:


> I've been told a sunroof helps a lot with resale. I havent seen many bimmers without one, although I personally dont really care either way.


Who gives a flying *$#! about resale? 

So you are going to let some nameless, faceless buyer four years or how ever many years from now dictate how you should order your 50K car? :dunno:


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

I agree with the others - no sunroof. The 19s are the prettiest of the bunch, but also the heaviest unfortunately (the rears are 29lbs IIRC). If you plan on taking it to the track, you might want to appropriate a few extra bucks for a lightweight set of track wheels/tires.

It would be nice if BMW made more colors in cloth. And cloth inserts may be somewhat functional but they're so ugly that I couldn't live with it. They should make the whole seat in a solid color of cloth (like the old A4s... the dark grey was very classy and grippy) or Alcantera, then you might have something. That could be an option as expensive as the leather and it would be totally worth it IMHO.

--SONET


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated. Looks like that camp is pretty evenly divided.

Agree the sunroof is nice, sometimes. But I'm in St. Louis so the window of opportunity for use is somewhat narrow (too cold or too hot much of the time). If I rememebr correctly, my bro' (mwette) didn't get it on his 330ci, and he lives in L.A. Truth of the matter is, I don't use it on my 5er very much.

Tracking is not that much an issue. Good point about helmet room, though. I did a performance school in my 5er (w/sunroof) and had to lower my seat a bit (I'm 5'10"). I will do some CCA perf. schools in my M3, but probably not track it otherwise. And getting a separate set of wheels otherwise is not an option. I'm already planning to get a 17"/Blizzak winter set, so whatever summer set comes with it is what I live with.

Leather is definitely in. Gotta have that Cinammon. It just looks so awesome.

I'll decide today and let you know what I do.

Dean


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Sunroofs in BMWs break, creak, rattle and annoy you. They cost you two inches of head room, and make the car so much less stiff that they also cause more rattles elsewhere.


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## glaws (Feb 21, 2002)

bren said:


> What's the question here? If you want the hole in the roof get it, if not, then don't... :dunno:
> 
> I don't have a sunroof. Never miss it. It's a waste of money, adds weight, and lowers head room/helmet space.


 All of the above are true. I have driven loaner 3er's with sunroof and was glad that I didnt have one. To me, just a noisy hole in the roof.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Premium package looks good on pre-owned invoices..As far as resale is concerned..
Figure it this way, you'll get a that much more on trade in..

But there are those track junkies who don't want the extra weight.. 
Anyhoo...Congrats on the order :thumbup:


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

dawgbone said:


> Figure it this way, you'll get a that much more on trade in..


There is no way you are going to get that $3k back on resale. It might be easier to find a buyer but that's it.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

bren said:


> There is no way you are going to get that $3k back on resale. It might be easier to find a buyer but that's it.


I was assuming that everyone knew that...but it WILL reflect on trade in...


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Whew....that was too close. On a hunch I left work to revise my M3. I got the order changed with less than an hour to spare before changing production status. 

So here's my new order, with a week 12 production:

2005 M3 Coupe
SMG II
Carbon Black Metallic
Cinammon Napa leather, Alum trim
19" M Double Spoke alloy wheels
Cold Weather Package
Power Seats + Width/Lumbar control
Xenon
PDC

No moonroof, no Bluetooth, no BMW Assist.

This car is going to be sweeeet!

Dean


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

dawgbone said:


> Premium package looks good on pre-owned invoices..As far as resale is concerned..
> Figure it this way, you'll get a that much more on trade in..


 It's a lease. Not my problem.

Even then, no way lack of a moonroof will reduce it's value $3K. To someone who wants to track it, it may even make it more desirable.

Dean


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## Dizzy (Dec 29, 2004)

Stuka said:


> If you have long torso and are tall, sunroof spells doom for your DE days.
> 
> I am 6'2" with 32" inseam, and when I had my no sunroof M3, I BARELY fit in it with my helmet on. :thumbdwn:
> 
> Doeboy has to sit crooked when he drives on the track with helmet on. Sunroof is stupid if you track and are tall.


I'm 6'2" with 32" inseam also. I opted for a sunroof because I used it all the time before I got a convertable, and I figured going from a convertable to a coupe, I'd use the sunroof alot. I've only had the car about 6 weeks now, but I'm finding I have not used it much. I don't know how often I'll track the car, but I am now wishing I didn't get the sunroof.

I did however get the manual seats which sit lower than the power seats, and I just went out and tried, and I barely fit with my helmet on (sunroof, man seats). If I slouch a bit I may be ok, if not I hit the top when looking certain ways. I have not been to the track yet, so I have yet to see if I can comfortably drive with it, but it'll be close.

If I could go back, I'd delete the sunroof...

-David


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Dizzy said:


> I'm 6'2" with 32" inseam also. I opted for a sunroof because I used it all the time before I got a convertable, and I figured going from a convertable to a coupe, I'd use the sunroof alot. I've only had the car about 6 weeks now, but I'm finding I have not used it much. I don't know how often I'll track the car, but I am now wishing I didn't get the sunroof.
> 
> I did however get the manual seats which sit lower than the power seats, and I just went out and tried, and I barely fit with my helmet on (sunroof, man seats). If I slouch a bit I may be ok, if not I hit the top when looking certain ways. I have not been to the track yet, so I have yet to see if I can comfortably drive with it, but it'll be close.
> 
> ...


 And just think, those manual seats give you an extra inch or so of head room.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

dwette said:


> It's a lease. Not my problem.
> 
> Even then, no way lack of a moonroof will reduce it's value $3K. To someone who wants to track it, it may even make it more desirable.
> 
> Dean


Who the hell came up with the 3k..You can pick the car up, drive it to the next dealership to trade in, and I garuantee you'll lose more than 3k....Since it is a lease. then I can see why you wouldn't care...I read the post wrong and thought that you said something about resale...but like you said it's a lease...I bought mine and I drive it daily, therefore I got it equipt with everything except CWP and window shade..I would have rather got everything than shoot myself later on for not doing so(I.E. BT) Had I bought the car for track events and drove it only on weekends, then I would have definately did the same...Cheers to your new ride :thumbup:


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> Who the hell came up with the 3k..You can pick the car up, drive it to the next dealership to trade in, and I garuantee you'll lose more than 3k....Since it is a lease. then I can see why you wouldn't care...I read the post wrong and thought that you said something about resale...but like you said it's a lease...I bought mine and I drive it daily, therefore I got it equipt with everything except CWP and window shade..I would have rather got everything than shoot myself later on for not doing so(I.E. BT) Had I bought the car for track events and drove it only on weekends, then I would have definately did the same...Cheers to your new ride :thumbup:


 I got mine with everything BUT the moon roof. Until you've had a car without one, you just can't understand how much more solid it makes the chassis. My '99 323i with a hard top and no folding seats is dead silent, for example. Even with 115K on the clock.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

my M3 had folding seats and moonroof and had no creaks

although in the future I will avoid buying a car w/ moonroof if possible


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> My '99 323i with a hard top and no folding seats is dead silent, for example. Even with 115K on the clock.


Yeah, well let's see how long that lasts.



Alex


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

BahnBaum said:


> Yeah, well let's see how long that lasts.
> 
> 
> 
> Alex


 Well, once the interior's ripped out, I doubt that'll rattle. :angel:


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## dmk (Mar 17, 2003)

"Anyone w/out sunroof"

I wish. 

If I had ordered my car, I would have skipped the premium package and the moonroof.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

I'm glad I changed to no moonroof. My first 2 BMWs have them and just don't get used much- once in a while on a really nice spring day.

When I went to change my order, I saw my salesperson go in to discuss it with his manager. They don't like taking orders for cars without a sunroof, so I think (I'm guessing) he was just getting approval. But he didn't make it an issue with me at all - didn't even mention it period. This is my fourth time getting a car from him (3 leases + 1 CPO), so I think they're ready and willing to accomodate me as best they can. This is a good dealer, BTW, with a very good reputation in our area, and they only sell BMW and MINI. It's not one of those every-brand car-mart dealers.

But I suspect if I had been a new customer, they might have asked for a bigger deposit (already gave them $400). 

I asked him how often he gets orders for M3 with no moonroof, and was told I'm the first.

But I'm very pelased I'll be getting the 19" wheels instead of the moonroof. The added benefit is I've also eliminated (i.e. not paying for) 2 other features I'm not likely to need/use: Bluetooth and BMW Assist.

Dean


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

I use the heck out of mine...I have a thing about detailing the entire car, and by the time I'm done, it'll be late evening..then I like to cruise with the windows down and radio off..If you have ever spent time in the south, then you'd know what I'm talking about...Nothing like the warm summer evenings...I usually take it down some long curvy back roads..I don't know why, but any car just seems to run so much better when clean...It's something that I'm glad that I had ordered, just for those perfect days..being that I'll spend more time driving the car, than tracking it...Now if I could just find an E36 without a moonroof


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> I use the heck out of mine...I have a thing about detailing the entire car, and by the time I'm done, it'll be late evening..then I like to cruise with the windows down and radio off..If you have ever spent time in the south, then you'd know what I'm talking about...Nothing like the warm summer evenings...I usually take it down some long curvy back roads..I don't know why, but any car just seems to run so much better when clean...It's something that I'm glad that I had ordered, just for those perfect days..being that I'll spend more time driving the car, than tracking it...Now if I could just find an E36 without a moonroof


 Well, I'm glad you like yours. Mine pissed me off every single day I owned my old wagon. Between the creaking, the rattling, and the occasion that it decided to spit oily plastic all over my car, I was very happy to avoid it in the M3.

In a comfortable position, my hair just brushed the roof in a car with a hole. No hole is not necessarily a track thing. It's really a matter fo comfort. As far as I'm concerned, cars a a good deal more luxurious and comfortable without. If I want an open roof, I'll buy a damned convertible.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

If you are getting a BMW get the Sunroof...its not like you want a stripdown Civic or Hyundai. Your already buying a fine automoble, may as well enjoy the full experience....I hate dark cabins in the sunny summer :thumbdwn: .

My sunroof is quiet and very smooth !!!!

If you are going to be a racer wannabe...skip the sunroof.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

flashinthepan said:


> If you are getting a BMW get the Sunroof...its not like you want a stripdown Civic or Hyundai. Your already buying a fine automoble, may as well enjoy the full experience....I hate dark cabins in the sunny summer :thumbdwn: .
> 
> My sunroof is quiet and very smooth !!!!
> 
> If you are going to be a racer wannabe...skip the sunroof.


 Do you sit upright, or ghetto style?


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Do you sit upright, or ghetto style?


6' tall sit straight & no clearance trouble, close yes...but I fit fine.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Well, I'm glad you like yours. Mine pissed me off every single day I owned my old wagon. Between the creaking, the rattling, and the occasion that it decided to spit oily plastic all over my car, I was very happy to avoid it in the M3.
> 
> In a comfortable position, my hair just brushed the roof in a car with a hole. No hole is not necessarily a track thing. It's really a matter fo comfort. As far as I'm concerned, cars a a good deal more luxurious and comfortable without. If I want an open roof, I'll buy a damned convertible.


On my previous cars, I would always spray silicon lube on all seals and moving parts of the sun/moonroofs, usually after washing and drying...Never had any problems...Mine doesn't creak yet...The M3 is far from comfortable...Stiff suspension, regardless of what tranny you go with, it's rough shifting, and the engine and exhaust are so loud, that I probably couldn't even hear it creak..so the moonroof really doesn't bother me...


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

a) It is likely too late to change. We had a similar production week back in 02 and the cutoff was in February for changes.

b) It may open up a LARGER market for track people who don't want a sunroof. I will pay MORE for a car without a sunroof (OK, BMW speak, MOONroof).

c) It you want open air motoring, get a Cabriolet. A sun.moon roof is a cheap a**ed substitue.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Do you sit upright, or ghetto style?


6'2" last time I checked, and I have plenty of head space, even with a helmet..The only time I hit the roof is when I hit the door seal on my way in/out...as far driving no probs...I sit upright as well...Everyday driving I sit just as any instructor would have you sit..I can not stand to be distant from the wheel, so I have the a$$ all the way down, the front all the way up, back is upright with lumber deflated, and my right knee rest on the radio..


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> 6'2" last time I checked, and I have plenty of head space, even with a helmet..The only time I hit the roof is when I hit the door seal on my way in/out...as far driving no probs...I sit upright as well...Everyday driving I sit just as any instructor would have you sit..I can not stand to be distant from the wheel, so I have the a$$ all the way down, the front all the way up, back is upright with lumber deflated, and my right knee rest on the radio..


 You must have a shorter torso than I do, then. Helmet and a sunroof forces me to move my head about 4 inches to the right. Extremely unpleasant.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

There is a case to be made for 

with / or without

I am explaining my own opinion....just dont like a car with zero sunroof.

Same thing with wheels...case for 18's a case for 19's.

Go with what YOU like !!

Then post pics !!!


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> You must have a shorter torso than I do, then. Helmet and a sunroof forces me to move my head about 4 inches to the right. Extremely unpleasant.


In your wagon...Right?


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> a) It is likely too late to change. We had a similar production week back in 02 and the cutoff was in February for changes.


 You mean my order?

It already went thru, and I got new confirmation immdiately with the changed order. It now shows (with the changes) status of 
112 - Scheduled for daily production pack


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> In your wagon...Right?


 Correct.

I actually kind of wish I hadn't gone for the power seats now. The extra inche of clearance that I've got in the 323 is wonderful.

Next thing on my list is an arm rest delete though. ****ign thing is unbeleivably annoying.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

Pinecone said:


> a sunroof (OK, BMW speak, MOONroof).


 I always thought a MOONroof was one that could be seen through even when closed (glass) and a SUNroof wasn't transparent at all (metal top).

Did anyone else think this or am I living in my own delusional little world?

James.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

flashinthepan said:


> If you are getting a BMW get the Sunroof...its not like you want a stripdown Civic or Hyundai.


Since when does not having a sunroof equate to a Civic? I suppose all BMW's _must_ have leather also :tsk:


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

James said:


> I always thought a MOOroof was one that could be seen through even when closed (glass) and a SUNroof wasn't transparent at all (metal top).
> 
> Did anyone else think this or am I living in my own delusional little world?
> 
> James.


 I believe you are correct.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

rumratt said:


> Even most of the 318i/is have them, and most of them have very few other options. Just ask alex. His entire fleet has the optional roof.


One of the few things I disliked about my E30 318 was the lack of a sunroof. I guess you would have loved it. :dunno:


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

bren said:


> There is no way you are going to get that $3k back on resale. It might be easier to find a buyer but that's it.


The sunroof only reflects about $1000 of that. The rest covers the cost of stuff like leather, power seats, etc. If you are going to get that stuff anyways, you're best off getting the whole package unless you specifically have a reason to NOT want the moonroof.

The lack of that $1000 moonroof can cost you anywhere from $1000-3000 when resale time comes around. I remember one car in particular that we took in trade after a few months, and it was worth *several* thousand less because it had no moonroof.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

dwette said:


> It's not one of those every-brand car-mart dealers.


What's wrong with a one-stop shopping destination?


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

SARAFIL said:


> The sunroof only reflects about $1000 of that. The rest covers the cost of stuff like leather, power seats, etc. If you are going to get that stuff anyways, you're best off getting the whole package unless you specifically have a reason to NOT want the moonroof.
> 
> The lack of that $1000 moonroof can cost you anywhere from $1000-3000 when resale time comes around. I remember one car in particular that we took in trade after a few months, and it was worth *several* thousand less because it had no moonroof.


I fully agree, no sunroof for me, means no sale !


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

flashinthepan said:


> If you are getting a BMW get the Sunroof...its not like you want a stripdown Civic or Hyundai. Your already buying a fine automoble, may as well enjoy the full experience....I hate dark cabins in the sunny summer :thumbdwn: .


Hmm. No sunroof option on this one, and it's definitely not standard...


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> Hmm. No sunroof option on this one, and it's definitely not standard...


Wouldnt buy it either ! :thumbdwn:


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

flashinthepan said:


> Wouldnt buy it either ! :thumbdwn:


 I totally would.

(But I'd have to get the optional A/C.)


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> I totally would.
> 
> (But I'd have to get the optional A/C.)


Its all what the buyer wants...nothing hard to agree with there imo.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> What's wrong with a one-stop shopping destination?


 From personal experience, I've been totaly unimpressed, and had bad experiences trying to shop. Salespeople not understanding the model line, not giving the attention I need when buying a $40K+ car, leaving me to sweat on the lot outside on a hot day waiting for a saleperson that never shows up, general chaos, and so on. I've been rudely ignored and treated insultingly (note to BMW salespeople: folks in jeans and sweatshirts have money too).

I like my dealer because all they do is BMW and MINI, and when I go there I still have the same salesperson I had 6 years ago. They know the product well, they treat me with respect and give me the time and attention I need.

I've gotten none of that with any one-stop car mart. Maybe there are good ones out there, but not that I know of in my area.

I don't like one-stop marts. Along similar lines, I don't get my Home Theater gear at the BB, CC, UA chain stores either for many of the same reasons.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

I guess some of us are a just idiot moonroof fanboys. 

I agree with all the comments about stiffness, helmet clearance and weight. And if I bought my cars as dedicated track or autox cars those would all be big factors.

In my case, I want to enjoy my car for other reasons too (at least I think that's the case), so leather and a hole in the roof are things that add value for me, and that's value entirely aside from resale.

Alex


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Jeez...I had no idea I would start a debate like this.

Guess I'm in the no-moonroof camp now.

I realized another benefit to not getting one. I just never liked the look of the big black glass square on the top of the roof. I saw a picture this morning of an M3 without, and it's a much cleaner, sharper look, IMHO. Cleaning will be easier too.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dwette said:


> Jeez...I had no idea I would start a debate like this.


In the end, you should ignore what everyone else thinks and do what you want to do.

Alex


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> In the end, you should ignore what everyone else thinks and do what you want to do.
> 
> Alex


 Which is what I did.

I was looking for feedback to hear pros/cons I might not have thought of otherwise. It's been a good thread for that. I was holding myself to a limit on expense (total MSRP): it was the moonrof or the 19" wheels. I think I'll enjoy the wheels more.

Dean


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dwette said:


> I was holding myself to a limit on expense (total MSRP)


In my case, it was NAV and SMG that got lopped. I don't miss either of them.

Alex


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> In my case, it was NAV and SMG that got lopped. I don't miss either of them.
> 
> Alex


 :thumbup: my case also. I just did not like SMG at all, I will not knock it, its pretty cool technology wise !! but not to my liking at all. NAV is also cool, but I would take the Premium Pkg any day over the NAV.

Again...it boils down to

Each guy has a car made to what works for *themselves*.


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## JamesSpot (Mar 4, 2003)

*6'5", no moonroof in my sedan*

Moonroof or coupe both gave up enough headroom that I no longer fit in the 3 series. I couldn't imagine having both the moonroof AND coupe if you are much over 6' tall. I still could use an extra inch of driver's seat travel, but what I have works OK. No one can sit behind me, though.


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

dwette said:


> Whew....that was too close. On a hunch I left work to revise my M3. I got the order changed with less than an hour to spare before changing production status.
> 
> So here's my new order, with a week 12 production:
> 
> ...


Did you remember to tell them you want it delivered to LA?


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## RandyB (Mar 4, 2003)

Stuka said:


> Who gives a flying *$#! about resale?
> 
> So you are going to let some nameless, faceless buyer four years or how ever many years from now dictate how you should order your 50K car? :dunno:


Ditto that, bigtime! 

My thoughts are less is more...

No-hole 330i here, looking forward to ordering a no-hole E90 M3 at some point.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

mwette said:


> Did you remember to tell them you want it delivered to LA?


 Damn, I knew there was something I forgot when I signed the order. Too late. Order is locked in now.

You can probably pick up an M badge on Ebay, steal some side vents from a Honda Civic and you'll have what you need to convert your car.

Dean


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

> You can probably pick up an M badge on Ebay, steal some side vents from a Honda Civic and you'll have what you need to convert your car.


Or try soaking 5K on a mousetrap supercharger...till it goes "Pop!!" 

j/k...I love all the 3 series Bimmers :thumbup:


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

The BMW USA website even has a no-moonroof coupe pictured. It looks much better without than with. Very clean.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

dwette said:


> Which is what I did.
> 
> I was looking for feedback to hear pros/cons I might not have thought of otherwise. It's been a good thread for that. I was holding myself to a limit on expense (total MSRP): it was the moonrof or the 19" wheels. I think I'll enjoy the wheels more.
> 
> Dean


Moonroof vs. 19' wheels....hmmm
I think I would have settled for 18" standard wheels...got the moonroof..saved up and got these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...tem=7960466705&category=66485&sspagename=WDVW and sell the 18", or even better, saved the 18's for a track worthy tire for track days :dunno:


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Correct.
> 
> Next thing on my list is an arm rest delete though. ****ign thing is unbeleivably annoying.


Amen to that, but not the one you're probably talking about...The armrest on the door(handle) gets in my way on left turns...so I have to suck in my elbows to clear it..puts me into a wierd position...I think that the passengers in my car hate the center armrest more than I do...Mainly because I leave it up and never use it, so they don't have one...


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

dawgbone said:


> Moonroof vs. 19' wheels....hmmm
> I think I would have settled for 18" standard wheels...got the moonroof..saved up and got these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7960466705&category=66485&sspagename=WDVW and sell the 18", or even better, saved the 18's for a track worthy tire for track days :dunno:


 I'm well off, but have other expenses to consider (mortgage, etc.), so I can't just start spending thousands arbitrarily on extra options, especially for a leased car. What gets delivered is what I have to live with (although I will add homelink and maybe some cheaper accessories like winter mats).

The wife already has a hard time dealing with adding a winter wheel setup later.

I never even wanted a moonroof on my first bimmer. The dealer talked me into it. I automatically added it on my second. Now I'm not getting it and really doubt I or my wife will miss it.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

dawgbone said:


> Amen to that, but not the one you're probably talking about...The armrest on the door(handle) gets in my way on left turns...so I have to suck in my elbows to clear it..puts me into a wierd position...I think that the passengers in my car hate the center armrest more than I do...Mainly because I leave it up and never use it, so they don't have one...


Short Center console is available from your dealer for 50 bucks. :thumbup:

I had my dealer put it in pre delivery as part of our deal. It gives you back a lot of room for the middle rear passenger, and gets rid of that stupid arm rest. :thumbup:


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## 16hr Day (Apr 17, 2004)

Stuka said:


> Short Center console is available from your dealer for 50 bucks. :thumbup:
> 
> I had my dealer put it in pre delivery as part of our deal. It gives you back a lot of room for the middle rear passenger, and gets rid of that stupid arm rest. :thumbup:


Do you have a picture??

I would get the roof and the 18's. I don't track my car but I enjoy the hell out of it and with all the widows and roof open it's almost a convertible without the weight :thumbup:

if you want to save a buck dump the SMG/automatic for a real 6sp then you can have your roof and wheels too.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

James said:


> I always thought a MOONroof was one that could be seen through even when closed (glass) and a SUNroof wasn't transparent at all (metal top).
> 
> Did anyone else think this or am I living in my own delusional little world?
> 
> James.


So does this mean that the glass somehow doesn't allow the SUN to shine through? :flipoff:

Moon roof, sun roof, all marketing. It is a hole in the top of your car. 

Personally if I want more fresh air, I want a convertible, no half a88ed simulation.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> The sunroof only reflects about $1000 of that. The rest covers the cost of stuff like leather, power seats, etc. If you are going to get that stuff anyways, you're best off getting the whole package unless you specifically have a reason to NOT want the moonroof.
> 
> The lack of that $1000 moonroof can cost you anywhere from $1000-3000 when resale time comes around. I remember one car in particular that we took in trade after a few months, and it was worth *several* thousand less because it had no moonroof.


I don't mind it being an option. I don't mind people who want them. I just WANT A CHOICE. As it is, the E46 M3 doesn't have enough headroom for me with a helmet on, without the sun, moon, star (whatever) hole in the roof. 

As for resale, I have sold exactly 2 cars in my life, out of 10 or so owned. And those were my first two cars. The first one to pay for my second one, and the second one because I was living at home and I couldn't keep two cars. Some of us don't care about re-sale, as we never sell cars. And some of us, even if we sell, don't care about resale to the unwashed masses, we KNOW that there are those who will pay extra for non-sunroofed cars.


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## e36M3r (Oct 19, 2004)

Oh... I was with you all the way there man, sunshine, windows, moonroof... until you had to throw in the "automatic/real" thing. Too bad. :thumbdwn: I was even going to say hello to a fellow "West Hills" neighbor... sort of lost the camaraderie now... 



16hr Day said:


> Do you have a picture??
> 
> I would get the roof and the 18's. I don't track my car but I enjoy the hell out of it and with all the widows and roof open it's almost a convertible without the weight :thumbup:
> 
> if you want to save a buck dump the SMG/automatic for a real 6sp then you can have your roof and wheels too.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

Pinecone said:


> So does this mean that the glass somehow doesn't allow the SUN to shine through? :flipoff:


 Only the ZHP sunroof 

James.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> a) It is likely too late to change. We had a similar production week back in 02 and the cutoff was in February for changes.


 Looks like I made it in time. The online OC Vehicle Order Tracking page now shows the changed configuration (i.e. no moonroof, but with 19" wheels, etc) and calling the 800 number tells me it's "scheduled for production with no confirmed date" (it's a Week 12 slot).

Woohoo!!!!

So it seems my M3 will be somewhat unique.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> I don't mind it being an option. I don't mind people who want them. I just WANT A CHOICE. As it is, the E46 M3 doesn't have enough headroom for me with a helmet on, without the sun, moon, star (whatever) hole in the roof.
> 
> As for resale, I have sold exactly 2 cars in my life, out of 10 or so owned. And those were my first two cars. The first one to pay for my second one, and the second one because I was living at home and I couldn't keep two cars. Some of us don't care about re-sale, as we never sell cars. And some of us, even if we sell, don't care about resale to the unwashed masses, we KNOW that there are those who will pay extra for non-sunroofed cars.


 Yeah, I can verify that Terry doesn't sell any cars.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Yeah, I can verify that Terry doesn't sell any cars.


I can think of 1or 2 that I would want if he ever kicks that habit....

Alex


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Yeah, and once it gets warmer we will be parting out one of them. And if Bren ever gets me teh info on how to open the hood on the Jeep, that will go back in service as a beater.


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## boxerman (Dec 13, 2004)

I got mine without the moonroof. I have used such a roof maybe once a year on previous cars and then only because it was there. Also went for the 18's because it seems that there are better rubber choices for the track and no one could explain what benefits thre were in 19's. 

I didnt like the suede or whatever its called on the zcp, It will probably look like crap and be hard to keep, apparently the newer 05's have the same suspension as the zcp, so I am only missing the dubious brakes and steering rack, which could be an issue.

I think this whole moonrrof thing is cooked up by dealers because it is a high profit option, I cannot believe that in the used car market people even care. In any event I had to leave a $1000 deposit because they are supposedly harder to sell without the hole in the roof. Picking up car in Spartanbury early April.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Pinecone said:


> Yeah, and once it gets warmer we will be parting out one of them. And if Bren ever gets me teh info on how to open the hood on the Jeep, that will go back in service as a beater.


Dude, you have a plasma cutter in your garage. 

Alex


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