# BMW reliability



## dave154304 (Mar 21, 2006)

I'm wondering what people's experiences have been with BMW reliability. The only person I know who owns one has had difficulties. It was great the first 50k miles, then a number of things started to go wrong...and have resulted in fairly high repair bills. BMW's are always rated fairly high for reliability - but I don't get the impression as high as Acura's or Lexus. 

What are your thoughts/comments?


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## zentenn (May 20, 2005)

My thought are that you should do a search and start reading


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## chivas (Aug 31, 2002)

depends which models you get.


each one has it's own flaws and if you are comparing it to acura's or lexus... um... bmw is like.. oh.. the ugly girl at the school dance since fat girls can diet.


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## vavet5308 (Dec 21, 2005)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make some HUGE generalizations.

Japanese cars tend to be more disposable. They can be neglected, but still work very well up to a point. At that point, get rid of them and get something new. Their lifespan is also limited, even with proper care and feeding.

European cars require regular, semi-expensive maintenance procedures using more expensive components and materials (synthetic oil, DOT 4 brake fluid, etc). In exchange, they deliver higher performance and longer life. Their lifespan is greater than Japanese cars. You pay more up front, but the longer life and slower depreciation balance. 

AMerican cars are somewhere in between, although typically with less performance than either of the above (Corvettes, Mustangs, etc are the exceptions). 

The bottom line is that BMWs can be very reliable with proper care. If you treat them like an appliance and just drive them with sproadic maintenance, they will bite you. If you coddle them from a maintenance standpoint, you can expect more from them in the performance and reliability arenas

Like I said, these are some HUGE generalizations and I'm sure someone can cite examples that will contradict my points, but these are my thoughts.


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## Vroom (Feb 21, 2006)

BMW's in general do not have the reliability track record that top Japanese manufacturers achieve. Historically, BMW's of the last decade or so have had some electrical gremlins for example. However, BMW reliability is not poor (recent Mercedes, for example, have been downright poor).


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## chivas (Aug 31, 2002)

vavet5308 said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and make some HUGE generalizations.
> 
> Japanese cars tend to be more disposable. They can be neglected, but still work very well up to a point. At that point, get rid of them and get something new. Their lifespan is also limited, even with proper care and feeding.
> 
> ...


i see more old nissan stanzas and toyota corollas as well as ancient old civics then bmw's... i do have to say though, i do see a lot of older MB's around.

i think a lot of bmw owners wouldn't want to be taken down a peg and admit, while it's designed very nice and pretty, it's as reliable as a GM or Ford.

one thing's for sure: GM's radiators last longer and ford's rear subframe doesn't tear. nissan's alternator isn't $800 and toyota doesn't have PLASTIC water impeller problem. Acura sure doesn't have much electrical problems and at least Hyundai stands behinds their product.

the only thing going for BMW is their handling when you peal away the pseudo-glitz and glamour. they are not fast off the line and are as consistant in reliability as a Skoda.


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## niktee (Apr 12, 2005)

*BMW Reliability*

I own two, both less than 20,000 miles, absolutely nothing negative at all. Having said that, I would not own one of the newer models long term because of major concerns. Among other things, I would have major electrical glitch concerns, as well as the fact that newer models have very little, if any maintenence these days. For example, if you were to purchase a four year old model with 50,000 miles, the car probably, at best, had 3 oil changes, brake fluid replacement, and nothing else. That's not my idea of maintenence. Lease for three years and enjoy the ride....trouble-free.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I agree completely. And, I often see the argument that if you just "properly maintain" a BMW it wont' give you trouble and will last a long time. Well, changing all the fluids on a regular basis might extend the engine, trans and diff lives but those components rarely give trouble on any car. And, then we're probably talking about getting 200k vs 250k out of those components. The stuff that tends to go wrong on BMWs usually has little to do w/ maintenance-- stuff like the window regulators, other electrical issues, door seals falling, water pumps failing, etc is just plain old poor engineering or manufacturing. The poster you replied to also said that BMWs would have a less depreciation than a Japanese car; I'm not so sure that's a big factor since most Japanese brands hold their value quite well. The main thing I prefer about BMWs tends to be the design, interiors, illusion of solidity (cause they're often less solid in reality than more flimsy feeling Japanese cars), and handling. I also like their aggressive lease deals, free maint and european delivery; it makes the cost of having a BMW often much less than expected. If you keep a car a long time, I also think older BMWs tend to look like "classics" while most older Japanese cars just look old. I'm not sure this will be the case with the current models however.



chivas said:


> i see more old nissan stanzas and toyota corollas as well as ancient old civics then bmw's... i do have to say though, i do see a lot of older MB's around.
> 
> i think a lot of bmw owners wouldn't want to be taken down a peg and admit, while it's designed very nice and pretty, it's as reliable as a GM or Ford.
> 
> ...


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## dave154304 (Mar 21, 2006)

niktee said:


> I own two, both less than 20,000 miles, absolutely nothing negative at all. Having said that, I would not own one of the newer models long term because of major concerns. Among other things, I would have major electrical glitch concerns, as well as the fact that newer models have very little, if any maintenence these days. For example, if you were to purchase a four year old model with 50,000 miles, the car probably, at best, had 3 oil changes, brake fluid replacement, and nothing else. That's not my idea of maintenence. Lease for three years and enjoy the ride....trouble-free.


This is why I started this post - I usually purchase cars outright and then keep them for 6-7 years. My last car, a Honda Accord has 120,000 miles on it - and I'm planning on running it another year. It has had NO issues other than routine maintenance. I'd really like to jump into BMW land, but am concerned that long term ownership could be a drawback.


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## GJR (Jan 6, 2003)

It's a tradeoff. Most Acura/Lexus cars will not be as entertaining to drive as a BMW, or handle the same, or feel the same at high speeds, etc. But they will probably be more reliable. Decide on which of these factors is most important to you.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Pretty much every BMW owner will say that although BMWs arent Lexus reliable, the satisfaction they get far outweighs the minor glitches that occur. BMWs reliablilty depends on the model. 

Our X3 was purchased in Sept 2004 and has 23,300 miles. There was only one minor problem that I caught and it was a loose belt tensioner replaced under warranty. Keep in mind ours has almost all the bells and whistles, so for all of them to not cause problems it's pretty impressive.


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## Elvis530i (Feb 13, 2006)

Owning a BMW is like dating a model. 

It's more fun, people envy you, but life tends to be a lot more expensive.


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## AndrewZ (Feb 1, 2006)

Well, from my little experiance with bmw's, I have a 2 1995 Honda Accords EX, Both Imports, and I havent had any major problems thus far.....The Blue one has 290000 miles on it, and has the original Motor and Tranny......The only major/minor repair that it neededs is the ABS makes a buzzing sound when you start the car.....As for the gold one, has about 250000 miles on it, I've had to replace the clutch once at 190000 miles, and that was only $600....Not to bad.....But now I have a 91 318is, not exactly new, but I prefer to drive this one much more...Since having this car, I havent driven the Gold Honda at all , and have driven the blue one a couple of times only, just mainly when the Bimmer is in the shop......So I would say that both cars are great, But I believe that reliability goes to honda, but performance and just the fat ytour driving one...BMW is the way to go.......My Bimmer may be old, But I can never go back to buying anyother car, Other than BMW......Just my 2cents on this subject:thumbup:


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## AndrewZ (Feb 1, 2006)

Elvis530i said:


> Owning a BMW is like dating a model.
> 
> It's more fun, people envy you, but life tends to be a lot more expensive.


:bow: :bow: ......very true.....I didnt see it that way till you mentioned it:bustingup


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

I haven't experienced any of the commonly cited reliability problems endemic to the E46 - my window seals are tight, no window regulator failures, and no troubles with the sunroof (when you have no sunroof, you have no sunroof troubles), and the only electrical gremlin that has surfaced to date (the headunit died) was repaired under warranty. I've had to put a new water pump into nearly every car I've owned, so if that's a design defect, it's not one specific to BMWs (and mine is soldiering on - knock on wood).

Maintenance will be higher than with a Japanese car. I am due for a brake overhaul and replacement of the suspension bushings. The cost of that work is equivalent to a couple of months of car payments and the freshened parts should last another 60,000 miles (the car is currently at 57k). Since my car is paid for, that's an expense that is easily planned for and afforded.

Based on what I read online, there does seem to be a huge variability in reliability among different BMWs, whereas Japanese cars are far more uniform in this regard. I don't know if that impression is rooted in truth, or whether it is shaped by people with negative experiences needing more community resources and therefore getting more exposure than those of us whose cars seem pretty solid. :dunno:

(edit: Important note - I still get a big smile when I drive this car. I sat in the garage for a few minutes admiring it after I put a 3rd coat of SG on it last weekend. I have not owned another car that has had that effect on me after 4 years of ownership. )


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

I dunno, C&D had a long term Acura RL -SH(sum up was a month or two ago) that had 7 unscheduled service visits in 1 year. I had a Camry a few years back that was pretty unreliable, steering rack went south, ABS sensor took a dive, power antenna died, etc.. I think getting a reliable car is like winning the lottery and if you get one, just maintain it and keep it for a while.


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

All I know is that the Bimmer pictured is still running around KC somewhere....how many 72 Toyotas/Datsuns have you seen this week? BMW builds pretty good cars IMHO.


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## chivas (Aug 31, 2002)

woody underwood said:


> All I know is that the Bimmer pictured is still running around KC somewhere....how many 72 Toyotas/Datsuns have you seen this week? BMW builds pretty good cars IMHO.


depends where in NJ i'm at.


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## FalconGuy (Sep 27, 2002)

so true, I drove past a 70's corrolla track car on a racing trailer in JC this past Monday.

I bet I see 30-50 1970's imports a week?


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## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

I'm not convinced that BMW's are really that much more expensive to maintain than most other cars:

Wife's '97 Hyundai Elantra 60k mile scheduled maintenance---$989 (service is also required every 7500 miles)
Son's '02 BMW 325 60k mile scheduled maintenance---$436


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

zentenn said:


> My thought are that you should do a search and start reading


Tell me, what are you thoughts about what type of engine oil I should use?

:rofl:

--J.


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## zentenn (May 20, 2005)

JonathanIT said:


> Tell me, what are you thoughts about what type of engine oil I should use?
> 
> :rofl:
> 
> --J.


:rofl:


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

tcoz said:


> I'm not convinced that BMW's are really that much more expensive to maintain than most other cars:
> 
> Wife's '97 Hyundai Elantra 60k mile scheduled maintenance---$989 (service is also required every 7500 miles)
> Son's '02 BMW 325 60k mile scheduled maintenance---$436


Hyundai scheduled maintenance is $1000?!?!?!?!?!??!?!:yikes:

Of course, on that '97, aren't you putting that much every month into it?!?!?!?!?!

What a rip!


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Guys, remember, the Germans pride themselves on performance and safety in driving. The Germans knew very early on if you tried to make a car that would last for forever, you would have to compromise safety in correlation. So, the decision was made to make parts not fail, but become worn, thus all the threads and people talking about changing shocks, absorbers, bushings, joints, etc. 95% of all things on a BMW get worn, not fail.

So when you talk about reliability of these cars, you really have to be careful on how you state things.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Motown328 said:


> Guys, remember, the Germans pride themselves on performance and safety in driving. The Germans knew very early on if you tried to make a car that would last for forever, you would have to compromise safety in correlation. So, the decision was made to make parts not fail, but become worn, thus all the threads and people talking about changing shocks, absorbers, bushings, joints, etc. 95% of all things on a BMW get worn, not fail.
> 
> So when you talk about reliability of these cars, you really have to be careful on how you state things.


INteresting theory- but it doesn't excuse premature failures of stuff like water pumps, thermostats, door seals, radiators, window regulators, climate control final stage resistors, rear floor tear outs, sunroof shades, etc. And, atleast with the e46, this is the type of stuff that seems to constitute the bulk of failures.

Its possible that you have a point about relatively fast suspension and brake wear.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

tcoz said:


> I'm not convinced that BMW's are really that much more expensive to maintain than most other cars:
> 
> Wife's '97 Hyundai Elantra 60k mile scheduled maintenance---$989 (service is also required every 7500 miles)
> Son's '02 BMW 325 60k mile scheduled maintenance---$436


INteresting--- I wonder what was done on the Hyundai vs the BMW. I bet the big thing is probably that the Hyundai required a new timing belt whereas BMW uses a chain (which is certinaly a nice thing). BUt, I also bet that the Hyundai scheduled maintenance included more stuff that would be a good idea to do on a BMW too-- perhaps trans fluid, spark plugs, etc.

I do think its an interesting point though-- BMWs, even when stuff fails, aren't as expensive to maintain as one would think. The parts prices aren't necessarily out of line with other cars either.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

robg said:


> INteresting theory- but it doesn't excuse premature failures of stuff like water pumps, thermostats, door seals, radiators, window regulators, climate control final stage resistors, rear floor tear outs, sunroof shades, etc. And, atleast with the e46, this is the type of stuff that seems to constitute the bulk of failures.
> 
> Its possible that you have a point about relatively fast suspension and brake wear.


True, it doesn't excuse premature failures. But the other thing isn't a theory. The Board and the various CEOs and honchos over the years have stated that they make parts only to last for a short while in order for them to be replaced to new standards again and keep the auto strong, safe, and ready to perform.

Of course, many people get cynical and say that is their way of draining your wallet. True, that is a beneficial side-effect for them! Hahaha!:rofl: But it also keeps your BMW at 75k or 100k miles much more ready-and-able than an equivalent non-BMW auto.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

robg said:


> I do think its an interesting point though-- BMWs, even when stuff fails, aren't as expensive to maintain as one would think. The parts prices aren't necessarily out of line with other cars either.


True. I thought $102 an hour for labor was insane, but when I cross-compared with MB ($127) and Acura ($97) for good measure, I saw that this is the norm. The only thing which is crazy would be the oil services...$125 or so. My dealer said that he only makes $3 on the whole thing because of cost of parts and profit to corporate.:dunno:


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## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

Motown328 said:


> Hyundai scheduled maintenance is $1000?!?!?!?!?!??!?!:yikes:
> 
> Of course, on that '97, aren't you putting that much every month into it?!?!?!?!?!
> 
> What a rip!


Other than brakes and other scheduled maintenance, I've never had to put anything into it. It included all fluids changed including trans, trans, fuel, oil and air filters changed, timing belt change ($400+), tuneup including plug wires, etc, misc inspections, brake adjustment, misc emissions work.

They didn't have to do any additional work, so that was their posted price for the service. Oh, it also included a trashy Enterprise rental car which they "mistakenly" tried to charge me for.

The car is only driven about 1500-2000 mi/year, has 55k miles on it and costs less than $300/yr to insure, so it's worth it for me to keep it maintained.

Bottom line is, I won't complain about BMW maintenance costs.


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## Elvis530i (Feb 13, 2006)

In my experience, and I owned a 1987 325 for 12 years, BMWs can be a lot more expensive to maintain and repair, *IF *you do it all at the dealership. If you get your work done at a reliable indy shop, it's not all that bad.


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## P.Chas (Nov 25, 2005)

If you think that service costs of $127 per hour are excessive then be glad that you
don't live in " rip-off Britain".
In the London area some dealers' are now charging more than £150 ($260) per hour, with
a BMW dealer being the dearest at £159 ($277).
The service costs for my Mercedes averages about $1,000 per year, with the major
service being $1,750; and I only drive just over 3,000 miles p.a.
It must be said however that the car has proved completely reliable, though this is
perhaps due to the servicing being very thorough- which it should be in view of the cost.


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

Motown328 said:


> Guys, remember, the Germans pride themselves on performance and safety in driving. The Germans knew very early on if you tried to make a car that would last for forever, you would have to compromise safety in correlation. So, the decision was made to make parts not fail, but become worn, thus all the threads and people talking about changing shocks, absorbers, bushings, joints, etc. 95% of all things on a BMW get worn, not fail.
> 
> So when you talk about reliability of these cars, you really have to be careful on how you state things.


Very good point here. An ex-brother-in-law of mine had a 63 VW, probably still using it as a daily driver. He was amazed that everything on the car could be re-newed...easily. And that's the point, German cars arent' made to run forever without maintenace, but with proper care...they sure will! That's kinda the German way of thinking...but believe me, if something doe's break they will blame it on the French or English...good German parts don't break.


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## NTB (Oct 20, 2004)

Motown328 said:


> True. I thought $102 an hour for labor was insane, but when I cross-compared with MB ($127) and Acura ($97) for good measure, I saw that this is the norm. The only thing which is crazy would be the oil services...$125 or so. My dealer said that he only makes $3 on the whole thing because of cost of parts and profit to corporate.:dunno:


I would not believe your dealer.
The price my dealer would charge me to do a oil change on my 2003 760Li would be $79.99.
http://www.motorwerksbmw.com/Price-Comparisons.aspx


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

NTB said:


> I would not believe your dealer.
> The price my dealer would charge me to do a oil change on my 2003 760Li would be $79.99.
> http://www.motorwerksbmw.com/Price-Comparisons.aspx


Remember that an "oil change" is very different from an "oil service" at most dealers...and there will be a difference in price...a big difference.


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

dave154304 said:


> I'm wondering what people's experiences have been with BMW reliability. The only person I know who owns one has had difficulties. It was great the first 50k miles,


Unless you have oodles of money, why make interest payments of a depreciating asset?
Just lease it 24-36 months, keep your hard earned money in the bank and get a new one on a regular basis.

I have leased all my vehicles (save vintage restoration/hobby machines) for the last 10 yrs and will never again make interest payments on a depreciating asset. I cannot understand that mindset. I did buy cars when they were much less expensive, but now days it just makes no sense to me.

IMHO it is depressing to think about driving the same car 60+ months and making payments on it when things start to go all wrong - I have been there many times.

But, I am a "car-guy" and get bored with my main ride in 18-36 months...


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## falcon123 (Aug 26, 2005)

mullman said:


> Unless you have oodles of money, why make interest payments of a depreciating asset?
> Just lease it 24-36 months, keep your hard earned money in the bank and get a new one on a regular basis.
> 
> I have leased all my vehicles (save vintage restoration/hobby machines) for the last 10 yrs and will never again make interest payments on a depreciating asset. I cannot understand that mindset. I did buy cars when they were much less expansive, but now days it just makes NO sense to me.
> ...


Now, do you own a business or are you paid commisions?

I find that it is so easy for people to say 'go and lease a car' if they can write it off. Or, you have s**t loads of money and you don't care. The reason to finance is to save in the long run - assuming the car maintenance doesn't run in the 3-5k/year range.

I'm not sure if US is so much different than Canada, but I did some quick calculations comparing financing(4 year finance) and leasing(3x3 years) and assuming you keep the car for nine years under finance. Leasing is 40% more expensive than financing, not considering maintenance costs. If you add maintenance costs for years 5-9 @ 1k/year, the spread is smaller, 34%. This of course depends on lease rates vs. finance rates. If you can lease something at 1.9%, then leasing might make sense. Again, if the car is very reliable, financing will save you more.

Also, I've seen it a lot but don't really understand the mentality when someone says, 'I prefer to lease as I won't be making interest payments on a depreciating asset'. What is this? :dunno: Guess what, when you lease, you make interest payments on a depreciating asset as well, probably more interest if you add up 9 years of lease vs. 4 years of finance.

Yes, it would be nice to change cars every two or three years. People have to remember that some of us have to work for a living and had nothing handed to them on a silver platter.


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## Vroom (Feb 21, 2006)

Motown328 said:


> But it also keeps your BMW at 75k or 100k miles much more ready-and-able than an equivalent non-BMW auto.


Don't drink the coolaid. It doesn't matter if that's the spin manegement puts on it, it's BS. All cars have shown tremendous reliability improvements over the last decade (well, we'll throw out Mercedes since they went to hell during that period). Just about any car, Toyota, Cadillac, even a darned Jeep, will all last 75-100k miles without being any less "ready-and-able" than a BMW that has had to have things like door seals replaced.


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## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

falcon123 said:


> Now, do you own a business or are you paid commisions?
> 
> I find that it is so easy for people to say 'go and lease a car' if they can write it off. Or, you have s**t loads of money and you don't care. The reason to finance is to save in the long run - assuming the car maintenance doesn't run in the 3-5k/year range.
> 
> ...


First of all, nobody will dispute the fact that leasing is more expensive if you're putting 3x3 year leases against holding a financed car for nine years. That is precisely the reason that many of us lease---so we don't have to keep our car for nine years.

Secondly, your generalization that all of us who lease have had things handed to us on a silver platter is ridiculous. I worked my way through college by working in the steel mills summers and driving home every weekend to work two midnight shifts. Every penny that I've borrowed, including from my parents, was paid back WITH INTEREST. I also have two sons who I've put through college and a disabled wife who hasn't been able to work for over ten years. I don't "write off" my lease and if I want to have a new car every three years without getting killed in the resale market, then so be it. Please don't make ignorant comments without thinking them through......sorry for the rant.


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

falcon123 said:


> Yes, it would be nice to change cars every two or three years. People have to remember that some of us have to work for a living and had nothing handed to them on a silver platter.


HAHA, I do heavy equipment maintenance and my hands show it.
Also a little sales, vintage BMW bike restorations, and some contract website design, so yes I do work. My wife has three part time jobs because she loves creating and being busy.
Silver platter - hardly.

It all starts with a decision of how long you want to keep a car.
I would be depressed with the thought of keeping my main car that long (you mention 9 yrs). Hobby, novelty, project machines, sure but that is different.

This makes neither of us right or wrong, and I apologize for steering the conversation in a negative way.


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## falcon123 (Aug 26, 2005)

tcoz said:


> First of all, nobody will dispute the fact that leasing is more expensive if you're putting 3x3 year leases against holding a financed car for nine years. That is precisely the reason that many of us lease---so we don't have to keep our car for nine years.
> 
> Secondly, your generalization that all of us who lease have had things handed to us on a silver platter is ridiculous. I worked my way through college by working in the steel mills summers and driving home every weekend to work two midnight shifts. Every penny that I've borrowed, including from my parents, was paid back WITH INTEREST. I also have two sons who I've put through college and a disabled wife who hasn't been able to work for over ten years. I don't "write off" my lease and if I want to have a new car every three years without getting killed in the resale market, then so be it. Please don't make ignorant comments without thinking them through......sorry for the rant.


No offence taken and I hope I'm not offending anyone here. I didn't say all who lease had things handed out to them. People lease for different reasons, some 'cause they can't afford the payment when financing, others 'cause they like to change their cars every 3 years or so, other 'cause they can write if off. In general, leasing doesn't make sense and it's good for the leasing company.


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## falcon123 (Aug 26, 2005)

On the reliability issue, it would be interesting to hear from those that had their cars for 6 years or more. Mind you, cars from six years ago and cars from now could be much different in terms of reliability.

As said before, in general, most cars have improved with time. There are of course exceptions, 'lemons' that people get and that is seen in every make. Also, the type of car will make a difference as well. A BMW, that is known for its sports minded spirit will be pushed harder than most hondas.

I'll make another generalization here, sorry, cars coming off a lease won't probably be looked after as well as the cars financed. Some people that lease, don't care much about the car and maintenace 'cause they don't have to live with the car for the next 10 years or so and they usually drive them harder. People that buy those off lease vehicles are left with problems. Sure, there is the 4 year free maintenance, but that's just it, minimal maintenance. 

Still, would be interesting to compare, let's say a year 2000 honda accord to a 2000 bmw and see how many trips were made to the garage over 5 years due to regular maintenance vs. things going wrong.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

mullman said:


> HAHA, I do heavy equipment maintenance and my hands show it.
> Also a little sales, vintage BMW bike restorations, and some contract website design, so yes I do work. My wife has three part time jobs because she loves creating and being busy.
> Silver platter - hardly.
> 
> ...


I think that's all fine-- but in your previous post you were making the argument that leasing is somehow more advantageous financially than the "buy and hold" strategy. I think the point is that there are many good reasons to lease, but unless you can write off the lease for business, saving money is usually not one of them.


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## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

Why not take a look at the e36 forum, there have been plenty of mileage and reliability threads. Now that these cars are upwards of 15 years old, there is plenty to be said. Mine has been very reliable and fun to drive.


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## falcon123 (Aug 26, 2005)

motor_werke said:


> Why not take a look at the e36 forum, there have been plenty of mileage and reliability threads. Now that these cars are upwards of 15 years old, there is plenty to be said. Mine has been very reliable and fun to drive.


Good point, the obvious is always overlooked.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

dave154304 said:


> I'm wondering what people's experiences have been with BMW reliability. The only person I know who owns one has had difficulties. It was great the first 50k miles, then a number of things started to go wrong...and have resulted in fairly high repair bills. BMW's are always rated fairly high for reliability - but I don't get the impression as high as Acura's or Lexus.
> 
> What are your thoughts/comments?


A sample size of one doesn't tell you much.

If you look at the big surveys (CR for example) typical BMWs have average or above average reliablillty. BMWs are not in the top 2 or 3 slots. New cars are reliable, be so the number of problems a typical BMW will see is very small. 
That's good enough if you are leasing a new car with full repair and maintance coverage.

There have been a few problems that plauged some of the cars. Many were due to parts suppliers, not BMW. A typical problem was the coil packs a few years back. It depends on the car. If you have a specific model in mind, read the sub-forum for that car.

Maintaince and repairs at the dealer is VERY expensive. But you don't start paying for this untill after year 4. BMW isn't alone here. The local Volvo dealer charged more than the local BMW dealer. BMW part prices aren't that bad if you know where to shop.



falcon123 said:


> On the reliability issue, it would be interesting to hear from those that had their cars for 6 years or more. Mind you, cars from six years ago and cars from now could be much different in terms of reliability


Older BMWs are amazingly durable. If you do some of the work yourself keeping an older BMW isn't bad at all.

My 1990 535i has well over 230,000 miles. Orginal engine, transmission, starter, alternator -- orginal lots of parts. It averages less than 1 repair a year. And the car still runs well.

BMW trading cost for durability in the 1990's. By 2005 our '96 318ti showed more wear and had more problems than my 1990. I know this isn't a fair comparison. The ti wasn't what I'd call a problem car. Wasn't nearly as durable though.

FWIW our 2004 325i has had 1 problem in 22months. The CD player wouldn't eject a disk. Dealer replaced radio while I waited.


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## germanblood (Aug 12, 2005)

LA525iT said:


> I dunno, C&D had a long term Acura RL -SH(sum up was a month or two ago) that had 7 unscheduled service visits in 1 year. I had a Camry a few years back that was pretty unreliable, steering rack went south, ABS sensor took a dive, power antenna died, etc.. I think getting a reliable car is like winning the lottery and if you get one, just maintain it and keep it for a while.


Well said- I owned a 00 Mustang GT for 65k miles and had absoluteley no problems whatsoever. That being said, I'm sure that I was pretty lucky. There is a give and take with any car. With Bimmers, you get the best "feeling" ride out there with a silky smooth engine, but once you get over 60k miles, it starts getting expensive to replace parts.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Vroom said:


> Don't drink the coolaid. It doesn't matter if that's the spin manegement puts on it, it's BS. All cars have shown tremendous reliability improvements over the last decade (well, we'll throw out Mercedes since they went to hell during that period). Just about any car, Toyota, Cadillac, even a darned Jeep, will all last 75-100k miles without being any less "ready-and-able" than a BMW that has had to have things like door seals replaced.


Please show me a Jeep, Toyota, or Cadillac that performs as well as a BMW with both autos having 100k on the clock.

Not going to happen.

I was talking about how things wear out on the auto that aren't designed to last forever. Door seals was not included in that.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Motown328 said:


> or Cadillac that performs as well as a BMW with both autos having 100k on the clock.
> 
> Not going to happen.
> 
> I was talking about how things wear out on the auto that aren't designed to last forever. Door seals was not included in that.


Ok our daughters '96 318ti vs. my in-laws caddy. GM won that one hands down.

By 136,000mi just about every plastic part under the ti's hood was very brittle. Things broke every few months. I replaced the stupid plastic rivets that hold the cooling fan on before they caused real trouble. There is a small plastic pipe at the back of the engine. That thing is virtually impossible to reach. Of course it broke about 2 monts after we replaced the radiator. There is another plastic cooling pipe UNDER THE INTAKE MANIFOLD. That one is a huge amount of work to replace. The interior wasn't doing much better. Both door panels broke. The radio head unit broke. The speakers were shot.

In the end another cooling system failure killed the car. Our daughter isn't one to pay attention to what the car is doing. She drove it at 70MPH with zero coolant until the engine was toast. This wouldn't have happend if I was driving... nevertheless.

Here are some BMW issues that often show up at well under 100K miles

Nikasil V8 failure.
Security glass that delaminates
Coil pack failures
Double Vanos failures.
e34 Thrust arm bushings only last about 50,000 miles
Blower motor final stage issues -- this one never seems to go away.

Our 2 current BMWs are the best cars we've ever owned. Our next car will be a BMW. But if you look at the big surveys, BMW is nowhere near the top in reliability.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Ok our daughters '96 318ti vs. my in-laws caddy. GM won that one hands down.
> 
> By 136,000mi just about every plastic part under the ti's hood was very brittle. Things broke every few months. I replaced the stupid plastic rivets that hold the cooling fan on before they caused real trouble. There is a small plastic pipe at the back of the engine. That thing is virtually impossible to reach. Of course it broke about 2 monts after we replaced the radiator. There is another plastic cooling pipe UNDER THE INTAKE MANIFOLD. That one is a huge amount of work to replace. The interior wasn't doing much better. Both door panels broke. The radio head unit broke. The speakers were shot.
> 
> ...


No, you are missing my point. If a BMW is well taken care of and parts are replaced as necessary, then it will drive like new at 100k miles. Most other autos would be ready for the scrap heap. Who wants to buy a Big Three auto with 100k on the clock? Didn't think so. Also, performance driving will be like new as well. Some say it only gets better!

Also, your daughter's 318 making it to 136,000 miles is a decent tally, especially seeing that it was driven by a teenage girl that destroyed it!!! That car should have lasted much, much longer. Please don't use this example as a testament to BMW in any fashion.

Yes, the Nikasil problem was well documented, but taken care of at the factory when discovered. The DV and blower motor issues are bad as well, but relatively, BMW for the performance and passion it inspires, is one heck of a well put-together auto.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Motown328 said:


> No, you are missing my point. If a BMW is well taken care of and parts are replaced as necessary, then it will drive like new at 100k miles. Most other autos would be ready for the scrap heap. Who wants to buy a Big Three auto with 100k on the clock?


Ahh. That's durability not reliability. I'll be the first to agree that older BMWs are exceptionaly durable. The cost reduced e36/5 wasn't too great but still holds up well compared to other cars from the same year and price range. Ours was at 148,000 when the daughter blew it up. And I did keep the car repaired. Tires, brakes, suspension. Those are all safey items. I even replaced the door panels when they broke. I Just missed something in the cooling system. It would have made it to perhaps 180,000 miles before needing a major overhaul and restoration. My e34 535i is going to make it to 300,000 miles before it needs that.

It is too early to tell how durable our e46 is. The interior durability seems to be somewhere between an e36 (without the /5) and my e34. As we approach the end of year 2 the interior is still perfect. I'd guess it is good for maybe 200,000 miles. There is a lot of plastic under the hood. If it is the same as what was on the ti, it will all need to be repalced somewhere around year 7. Personally, I'd be disappointed if I had to replace the VANOS at 100,000 miles.


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## BayAreaBMWFan (Aug 8, 2004)

*BMW are not as reliable as Honda/Toyota*

I will go on a limb and say that BMWs are not as reliable then Honda or Toyota. Even if some Honda/Toyotas have had problems of late, the manufacturers stand by their cars if it suffer a major disaster, even if it is out of the 3yr/36K warranty. Extended warranties for them can be had for close to $1000 for 7yrs/100K miles. And the best thing is that if you do not use the warranty, they refund your money. BMW warranties cost almost 3x more (the owner's choice program)

On the other hand, most BMWs are solidly built when it comes to core drivetrain components. Their auto transmissions were suspect in the past, but they seem to have fixed that problem. However, each BMW model has had its own quirks. The E38/E39 series which were launched in the 90s had the "biodegradable plastic" problem. A number of components were made of plastic which would fail between 50-100K and lead to costly repairs. Window regulators failing was a constant problem with them. From an engineering point of view, these are unexcusable failures. The rest of the automotive world has been making these items which last forever. BMWs quality control slipped somewhere. Many BMWs also need to get the hoses replaced sooner than the Japanese cars. The PS steering hoses on the E38 are notorious.

The models launched in 2000s have a lot of electronics and those have been quirky. However, since most of these cars are still under the 4yr/50K warranty, we do not know what their long term reliability will be like. My guess is that the drivetrain will continue to be bullet-proof. I also expect that some of the plastic or window regulator related stuff would be fixed (if they are not, then some heads need to roll in BMW ASAP). My fear is that the electronics will not hold up as well since they were not all that great to begin with. And electrical repairs are the costliest to do. Diagnosing them takes forever and you have to get OE parts; old parts are not recommended since electronics do die with age.

Apart from the above, there are suspension components which might require servicing/replacement more often. However, this is primarily because BMWs are more performance tuned and the specifications for what is acceptable wear and tear are tighter. I do not see this is an issue since a performance oriented car will wear out these components faster.

For a person planning to own a BMW for 6 years, the best thing is to do the following:

1. Get a car under ED; lease it for 2-3 years depending on the lease rates and other factors.

2. At the end of the lease, work with a dealer to get a car CPOed. You can often buy the car below the residual depending on auction data. A friendly dealer can CPO the car at a cost of $1000-$1500 assuming new tires are not needed. Add a fair profit ($1000) and you should be set.

3. Also add the maintenance extension to it $1000-$1200 to cover you for 6 years.

4. When buying the CPO car take advantage of any special financing deals BMWFS has for CPO cars. You could also try leasecompare.com to get a lease quote, especially if you live in a high sales tax state.

5. Not that the CPO warranty does not pay for hoses etc. There are some other after market warranties which cover everything and can stretch the warranty coverage for more than 6 years. They are not cheap but buy you peace of mind. However be careful about the company you deal with since many have gone under. Several mainstream insurance companies are entering the business like Mercury Insurance and even GE. I would not mind getting a car warranty through them.

And make sure you join BMWCCA to get the rebates.

The other option of course is to do ED every two-three years, and forget about maintenance and repair costs :thumbup: It is not a lot more to do that.


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## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

Not to drag out another redundant topic, but one issue overlooked it how people view their cars. People I know who drive a BMW will complain about the smallest things. However, my friends with toyota's have many issues, but they don't spend the time to complain, or know enough to complain. For example, my friends 2005 corola (7k miles) has cracking paint (on the trunk...so not from rock hits), the accelerator sticks about 25% of the time, and the wiper nozels froze as the dealer didn't mix the washer fluid correctly. None of these have been reported to the dealer. Now, if the typical BMW owner had these issues, you better beleive they would be complaining. So, I dont put much faith in the CR or JD power numbers.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

motor_werke said:


> Not to drag out another redundant topic, but one issue overlooked it how people view their cars. People I know who drive a BMW will complain about the smallest things. However, my friends with toyota's have many issues, but they don't spend the time to complain, or know enough to complain. For example, my friends 2005 corola (7k miles) has cracking paint (on the trunk...so not from rock hits), the accelerator sticks about 25% of the time, and the wiper nozels froze as the dealer didn't mix the washer fluid correctly. None of these have been reported to the dealer. Now, if the typical BMW owner had these issues, you better beleive they would be complaining. So, I dont put much faith in the CR or JD power numbers.


Very true. Just like the poor scores on a lot of BMW autos have come from crappy cup holders and non-available adjustable pedals.  Please.

There is a couple that review autos for the Detroit News. The guy is sensible but the wife is a loon. She always complains about the silliest things, ALWAYS b!tches about not having adjustable pedals in a car and thusly ranks it terribly (as if that was the most important thing), whines about cup holders, back-seat room, etc. She also gives Big Three cars a 5/5 after complaining about it the whole time whilst giving a foreign auto which she said she loves a 3/5 or 4/5.

Check out these reviews to see what I mean. I love reading the new ones in the paper. It's like watching a train wreck. A little off-topic, but enjoyable nonetheless.

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=22282 - 2006 BMW 325xi

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=22397 - 2007 Yukon SLT - Hilarious. She lathers on about the bloody steering wheel.

And my favorite, check out this one for the 2004 325ci: http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=14073


> Dislikes: Not passenger-friendly. Needs adjustable pedals. Rear-seat passengers felt cramped. Oddly shaped dashboard that's carved out on passenger's side. Seems like there's more room in trunk than rear seat.


 It's a bloody coupe!!!!! ARGH!!!

She said this about the MINI:


> In a perfect world, where all the other cars on the road were the size of Beetles and PT Cruisers, the Mini would make eminent sense. Until then, better hang on to your SUV, for self-defense if nothing else.


 Silly woman.

Hahaha...good stuff.


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## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

"Self defense" OMG! Honestly, on my commute to work, I'd say a good 80% of the SUV's are driven by women, with a majority either talking on the cell, or drinking/smoking. The morning commute is the typcial drinking and smoking. The afternoon comute it seems like nearly all have a cell glued to their ear. Of course, they are all driving one handed... "one hand wonders" I like to call it. 

I'm just hoping they never hit me. Had a close call a few weeks back, I was going 50 (the limit was 50) and a black SUV made a right-on-red to pull into my lane.... only problem was, they did this when I was 30 to 40 feet away. At 50MPH, that is only a fraction of a second. Thankfuly, good brakes and a quick manuver kept me safe. Havn't had a close call like this in years. 

Sorry to derail the thread, just had to vent. People who buy SUV's for camping, towing, etc are fine. Those who buy them to comute with just 1 person....


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## tinzac2 (Feb 21, 2006)

*Haven't read entire thread but...*

What made me go back and get another bimmer after 20 years from my last one was the FREE MAINTANCE! (OK and yeah the handling and driving too  having everything paid for up front was icing on the cake!). My 2003 530i has everything paid for (maint and anything that goes out) until 2011. This kicks any other auto make out of the water! knock on wood since I haven't had this girl long but the 5 series seems a lot less tempermental than the 2 3 series we had in the 80's. I think it does depend on the model and I noticed even with the 2 3 series we owned they drove differently between the 2. They are definitely individuals.

OH, and I traded a 2005 Altima to get her too. It was an OK car, but a bad fit for me driving wise (can we just say cheap car that felt plastic and was vanilla to drive, ugh). All in all when I calculated the differences in cost, I'm paying maybe $20 more a month in fuel bills since the gas Mileage is comperable between the cars (maybe losing 2-3 gallons in town tops!) and I was paying to maintain the Altima. The way I see it LIFE'S TOO SHORT TO DRIVE A CAR YOU DON'T LIKE! LOL!


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## GasGrrl (Jun 18, 2007)

I am concerned about this as well. It's nearing the end of my lease and I am seriously thinking about going with Lexus. I just don't see many older BMW's on the road.



dave154304 said:


> I'm wondering what people's experiences have been with BMW reliability. The only person I know who owns one has had difficulties. It was great the first 50k miles, then a number of things started to go wrong...and have resulted in fairly high repair bills. BMW's are always rated fairly high for reliability - but I don't get the impression as high as Acura's or Lexus.
> 
> What are your thoughts/comments?


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## billysbmw1968 (Mar 24, 2009)

*BMW Reliability*



dave154304 said:


> I'm wondering what people's experiences have been with BMW reliability. The only person I know who owns one has had difficulties. It was great the first 50k miles, then a number of things started to go wrong...and have resulted in fairly high repair bills. BMW's are always rated fairly high for reliability - but I don't get the impression as high as Acura's or Lexus.
> 
> What are your thoughts/comments?


This all depends on what model and years the car is. Not all bmw's are the same. You need to keep in mind that bmw like other automobile's have their good and bad years when they add new features, experiement with different gadgets that were not there before. Once you do the research on the model and year you will be better off having a good reliable bmw. I know of many people who have bmw's that have more than 400,000 miles on it. Some have rebuilt their transmission while others still have no issues with their car. I currently have a 1991 bmw 525I with 202,000 miles and no issues. wife has a 530I and replaced the water pump twice at 166,000 and 196,560 miles. Radiator needs to be fixed or replaced at 213,000 miles. The car is considered a bad year since it is a 1994. BMW told me that they had issues with some 3, 5 series during 1994 - 96. So you need to do some research on the model and year of the car of your choice. This is like any other model. I think from my research on many cars that I could not find one model that did not have any issues. Research this for yourself. Use google to research on cars. Let's see if anyone can find an american car that has over one million miles documented and let them post it here. Look at this video of bmw with over one million miles on a 325I. http://www.mobil1.com.sg/performance/miles.aspx


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## billysbmw1968 (Mar 24, 2009)

*BMW's Reliability*

What I forgot to mention is that what we post here is some information you can use to help you in making your decision into buying a bmw. What I have and I really like this book is more factual and reliable information about bmw's. You will enjoy this book and will have a solid foundation of bmw in general.

Driven: Inside BMW, the Most Admired Car Company in the World 
http://www.amazon.com/Driven-Inside-Admired-Company-World/dp/0471269204

Check out this website: http://mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html

Company tests synthetic oil by driving car a million miles
This column was published on May 23 in the Herald-Journal.

Author: Kenn Peters

Imagine driving your car or truck for 1 million miles. Why, it would take forever. And then you'd have to be driving around the clock.

Mobil, the oil and gas company, did it when it was developing Mobil 1. It took four years to cover the miles.

Bill Maxwell, an environmental engineer and head of product development for the Mobil Technology Co., in Paulsboro, N.J., said the company did high-mileage tests of Mobil 1 synthetic oil during 1989 and 1990 in two Oldsmobiles with General Motors' since discontinued Quad 4 engine.

The cars were put on a treadmill and run for 200,000 miles. The oil in one car was changed every 7,500 miles and in the second car every 15,000 miles, Maxwell said. At the end of the 200,000 miles, the car's engines were torn down and found to be in perfect condition.

"It was astounding. The engines looked like they were virtually new," he said. Mobil learned from that test that even people who break the rules by not changing their oil on schedule will be forgiven by the oil.

But Mobil wasn't satisfied. So the company bought a BMW 325i with a 2.5-liter in-line 6-cylinder engine. The company decided to go for broke and run the BMW 1 million miles.

The BMW spent four years on the treadmill, 24 hours a day, mostly at 85 miles an hour, but with varied speeds, too, down as low as 45 miles an hour to simulate everyday driving.

Mobil followed BMW's recommended service schedule. Along the way it changed the fan belt and hoses and did other hardware maintenance. It religiously changed the oil.

AT THE END of the road, when the engine was taken apart, Mobil's engineers discovered that the wear measurements were the same as the manufacturer's specifications.

Today that synthetic oil is commonplace not only for vehicles on the road, but those on the racetrack, too.

The 5W30-weight Mobil 1 is used almost exclusively by racing teams on the NASCAR circuit, and most Indy-type cars use 15W50-weight Mobil 1, Maxwell said. Military fighter planes have been using synthetic oil for a long time, he said.

One of the basic elements of synthetic oil is a so-called synthetic fluid, the development of which evolved over the years until it became obvious it could provide lubricating benefits not obtainable with mineral oils, Maxwell said.

ONE OF THE oil's toughest tests was in heavy equipment that does duty on the Alaskan pipeline. The oil must perform in temperatures that dip to 40 below zero, Maxwell said.

Oil companies are constantly being pushed to develop new products to meet the demands of engines that run hotter, Maxwell said.

"We want higher fuel efficiency and that means cars will be much more streamlined, hood areas will get smaller, and engines will have to be smaller," he said. "That will result in less air flow."

What all this adds up to is hotter running engines and more demands than ever on engine oil.

Incidentally, have you ever noticed how often manufacturers claim products have been used for years in Europe before they come to the United States? Well, that's the case with Mobil synthetic oil. Maxwell said it has been used in Europe for over two decades.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Auto Editor Kenn Peters' column runs Thursdays in the Herald-Journal.
Copyright (c)1996, The Herald Company
www.syracuse.com


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## chasz17 (May 4, 2007)

I love this thread. I'm in the car business and choose to drive a BMW, and, no I don't work at a BMW dealership. I love the product line and think BMW makes the finest driver's cars in the world and thats my choice. I understand that this type of precision and performance will require more maintenance and, possibly, more repairs. I will spend the money to drive MY BMW as I have for the past 20 years. 

To draw a parallel, I own two watches, one an inexpensive Seiko that keeps perfect time and requires a $5.00 battery every two to three years. I also own a beautiful Breitling automatic that I've cherished for 12 years now. It gains about 1 minute every two weeks and every five years goes in for a tune-up at the cost of nearly $900. This watch was handmade by a master watchmaker in Europe and it took over 4 months to craft; it is a marvel of engineering and beauty and one of my few prized possessions, like my BMW. If you don't have the appreciation for this type of engineering then buy a Camry.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

dave154304 said:


> I'm wondering what people's experiences have been with BMW reliability. The only person I know who owns one has had difficulties. It was great the first 50k miles, then a number of things started to go wrong...and have resulted in fairly high repair bills. BMW's are always rated fairly high for reliability - but I don't get the impression as high as Acura's or Lexus.
> 
> What are your thoughts/comments?


It's really hit or miss depending on the car.

I know of a mid 1990s three series with mid 100k, nothing but reg maint. and a 2003 530 mid 200k same.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

I put 256K on an E30 325 and 192K on an E36 328i. Both cars were reliable, but the maintenance costs to keep the cars up was much higher than a Honda or Toyota. While we had the 2 Bimmers we also had a 1991 Honda CRX. I kept track of maintenance costs for the 10 years and 247K I put on the Honda. NOT counting oil changes and tires I spent a total of $3600 on Maint on the Honda.

In the 10 years and 192K I put on the E36 once it went out of warranty, I spent $18K on maintenance. That is a bunch of money. But at $1800/year it is way less than a car payment.


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## peripherique (Jan 18, 2009)

BMW's aren't known for reliability. There known for their driveability, handling & feel of the road. If reliablility is at the top of your list get something else.


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## Bremen Ben (Sep 1, 2008)

peripherique said:


> BMW's aren't known for reliability. There known for their driveability, handling & feel of the road. If reliablility is at the top of your list *get something else*.


+1, and still face the prospect of having to fix something on that non-BMW.

The funny thing is, people with their pre-conceived notions about the reliability of cars would hardly change their minds.

I can still remember my parents, who are die hard Toyota fans, complaining about their 9 year old Camry having failed window regulators, broken radiator, and several other troubles that cost them money on repairs. Finally when I convinced them to get a new car, they got themselves another glorified Toyota (a.k.a. Lexus)...


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## QuoteWarz Insurance (Dec 17, 2009)

Every kind of car is going to have it's flaws. There will be issues with the BMW, but you will find that with almost anything. The key is to get a good extended warranty and really take care of the car on a regular basis.


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## wisbimmer20 (Nov 25, 2009)

So sorry to revive the thread but BMWs will cost you more than other cars and are not quite as reliable as others. But then again my 1995 525 hasw 196000 miles and runs like a top


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

Are there any BMW factory trained tech's on board who also have time in the Airforce preferably as a crew chief. The reason I ask is, in terms of sophistication I think our beloved BMW's are on par with fighter jets of not too many years back (which received TLC each and every night). Just look at the computing power behind 'DTC'.


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## HoustonScott (Sep 19, 2010)

I am going to say BMW is the most well designed and reliable car you can buy at any price. I have had a BMW in the drive for over twenty years and have no mechanical failures. Zero. The MB has had a power steering pump failure. The VW had a fuel pump failure. The BMW's there have been three have had no failures, except brake light bulbs and one battery. That's it......100's of thousand of miles in those three BMW's. BWM is simply a spectacular car and in the long run the cheapest cars I have ever owned. Period. My toyota was the most disappointing it rusted before my eyes and was a mess, had to go at 80K. The Chev. was almost as bad, all kinds of things broke, one Chev had a gasket failure the mixed coolant and oil and destroyed the engine! Another Chev has flaw in cam and need engine replaced. You can take you honda's and toyota's and CR's and shove it...THEIR WRONG ABOUT BMW. 

HS


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## wisbimmer20 (Nov 25, 2009)

They're tanks. People who think otherwise are idiotic. My comment about the reliability was sarcastic. I've had two BMWs, one Ford, and one Nissan and the two BMWs have by far been more reliable than the Ford or the Nissan.


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## bearslapper (Apr 24, 2011)

*German cars*

A word from a wise old driver about German made automobiles. All of them!

Unless you have pockets as deep as the Grand Canyon, you would be advised to stay away from German cars. Especially if they are out of warranty. The dealers of German made cars will rape you from here to the milky way.

You would be better off leasing your German car and exchange every two to three years. The problems will be theirs.....not yours.

Germans love to tinker with their automobiles. We Americans do not want to tinker with our daily drivers. We don't have the time nor the expertise.

Audi's and BMW's are the worst. Yes....you may love the little beauties! But they will empty your bank account!


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## wisbimmer20 (Nov 25, 2009)

So is that why my 16 year old V8 530 is the most reliable car I've ever owned and the LEAST maintenance intensive? I think they're extremely reliable. Not only that but the BMW is for the refined driver who appreciates finesse and agility. It is not for those who seek frugality and point A-B transportation. It's obvious a vehicle like this is going to require more attention but I wouldn't say its unreliable by any means. That's absurd.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

From a build quality/overengineering standpoint, an E30 or E34 takes the award (Nikasil engines notwithstanding)


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

TRS550 said:


> From a build quality/overengineering standpoint, an E30 or E34 takes the award (Nikasil engines notwithstanding)


I'd have to say e28 and e30. The e34 ushered in the era of plastic cooling systems that blew up and also saw the introduction of more electronic complexity.


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

For most people, the reliability of older BMWs is not relevant. The BMWs built since the late 1990s are not the same as the E30s, and the age of electronics make BMWs even more problematic. Do you really trust the computer to tell you how much oil is in the engine? Alas, you have no choice.

Also, don't compare BMW to Toyota/Honda. Compare to Lexus/Acura/Infiniti - whose owners are just as demanding if something goes wrong. For BMW owners, you may actually get fewer complaints - poor reliability is expected.


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## gtxragtop (Feb 25, 2008)

billysbmw1968 said:


> T Let's see if anyone can find an american car that has over one million miles documented and let them post it here. ]












2.7 million mile Volvo: http://blog.mlive.com/grpress/2008/08/volvo_with_27_million_miles_cr.html


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## MTNBMW (May 1, 2011)

NOTE TO ALL:
do not own BMW beyond warranty--if so, expect to pay. If one wants a utilty vehicle buy one.


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## ThoreauHD (Feb 27, 2006)

My experience is that new BMW owners are a completely different breed from used BMW owners. The E34/E32 era classics are the most well built cars thus far. The reason for that is, is when I fix it, it's fixed. The materials will one day degrade, but the engineering is rock solid.

Now if I repaired my Mazda or ford or Lincoln or what have you, it would still be cheap crap that has a 50% chance of being fixed, assuming rust hasn't eaten through the body already. And if you come out of that repair clean, you immediately realize that you just repaired a car that you don't like very much.

I see lots of E34's on the road where I live. They are the best looking BMW IMO. Period. If I had to buy a new BMW Camry, I would lease too.

What did that other guy say? He can't stand having the same BMW for 3 years. I agree with him. New BMW's have as much class and style as a chrome dildo. A chrome dildo with a sealed transmission, sealed oil dipstick, mandatory gas guzzling run flat tires... but why go on.

I own my car. I love it because the style is classic, it's built better than Patton's tanks, and once you replace a worn out part, you just bought another 50-100K miles of worry free driving.

The new car BMW owners in my area buy it for the warranty because they are so clueless and irresponsible, that going to the dealership every 6 months is more than they can bear without the complimentary loaner car. 

These aren't sports racing folks or people that care how a car handles. They are buying a brand with cluelessness support. And again, if that's the draw, then I would chuck that toaster out the window every three years too. 

This is what I observe where I am. No offense intended, but it needed saying.

To the OP. Find a well maintained OE BMW on this or other forums(BMW CCA)- that you love. For 10g you'll have peace or mind, money left over for maintenance, and you'll own something that treats you right and looks like a BMW. Oh, and you only go to the stealership to get new keys cut. Look for independent BMW technicians at bmwcca.org for actual maintenance. That's it.

That's all I have to say. I'm sure I've made alot of friends here today. I tend to get irked when the rain I see falling on people's heads is yellow.

So best of luck OP.


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## wisbimmer20 (Nov 25, 2009)

Not true. I've owned three BMWs way out of warranty and they've been fairly inexpensive and reliable. About as much as any other car.


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## Edgy36-39 (Jan 29, 2008)

Since this thread got woken up, here's my contribution to this discussion published back in August. Complete with a contribution from Mike Miller of Bimmer and Roundel magazines:

http://cparente.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/bmws-quality-crisis/

Personally not interested in anything newer than the two M cars I own now.


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## 16n69 (Feb 27, 2011)

falcon123 said:


> On the reliability issue, it would be interesting to hear from those that had their cars for 6 years or more. Mind you, cars from six years ago and cars from now could be much different in terms of reliability.
> 
> As said before, in general, most cars have improved with time. There are of course exceptions, 'lemons' that people get and that is seen in every make. Also, the type of car will make a difference as well. A BMW, that is known for its sports minded spirit will be pushed harder than most hondas.
> 
> ...


I have a 10 yr. old, 2002 325i (built in 2001)...that has 62k on it and has been "flawless"...with fastidious service & maintenance, not a single problem, just wear items replaced, as with any other car, maybe less so even.:thumbup:


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

My $0.02:

My car history:
1986 Mazda 323
3 Honda Civics
Infiniti G35
2 BMW 335's

I had more problems with my first 335 than the previous 5 cars combined. Second one has been better but still a few issues. Thankfully they finally got the HPFP fixed. I'm happy mine are leased and everything is covered.


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