# 335d Handling in Snow



## subdude (Apr 11, 2013)

I currently own a 2008 328xi. I have planned on replacing it with a newer 335d sometime this year, however, I will be giving up the AWD to do so(unless there is an xDrive version that I am unaware of). How is the winter driving in the 335d?


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## jfxogara (Oct 26, 2012)

I neither have winter tires nor (in D.C.) a lot of snow. Having said that, I'd say the 335d gets a C+ for snow manners. Brakes are fine, pulling away from a stop is fine, but driving at speed and turning are both a little iffy, like most cars of that type. I'm also constantly reminded of the car's low-ish ground clearance as I drive over snow ridges.


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

When I owned the 335d, I remember taking it up to the slopes for skiing and the car was great on snow, light ice, slush and sloped travel with non RFT Continental DWS tires.
These are the tires I had on a second set of BMW wheels:








If you in the northeast where it really gets icy, get a set of real snow tires....


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

As noted, with snow tires you should be fine. N4S


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

need4speed said:


> As noted, with snow tires you should be fine. N4S


I just put snow tires on my 335d, and it is very respectable for a low ground clearance sedan. Without the snow tires, it is terrible.


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## YozhDzl (Mar 5, 2014)

I drive on snow performance tires and we do not even get snow, or if we do, it is for a day or two. It's the tire compound that matters when temps get nearer 32F and below.


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## NWCT335d (Nov 14, 2013)

I find that between the Pilot Alpin PA4 winter tires and the low speed nature of the diesel engine and traction controls, etc, it is a very decent snow car. I havent had any issues at all and I find that it is a very predictable handler.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

On my iPod screen that looked like a 5 axle BMW. How cool is that?


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## diapason8 (Jul 1, 2011)

The 335d definitely needs snow tires - I got a set of Bridgestone Blizzak's on a separate set of wheels a couple of years ago. The 335d is not as good in the snow as an AWD or front wheel drive car, but for a RWD it's not bad. Going up steep hills on an unplowed road it can feel a little squirrely, but overall not too bad.


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## rungolden1 (Dec 14, 2014)

It's not a good experience without winter tires, but with them it does just great. I've tried a lot of winter tires, and I find the Dunlop WinterSport SP's to work the best. TireRack reviews confirm this with others, although you can get slightly better by paying twice as much.


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## 9mmkungfu (Sep 11, 2014)

rungolden1 said:


> It's not a good experience without winter tires, but with them it does just great. I've tried a lot of winter tires, and I find the Dunlop WinterSport SP's to work the best. TireRack reviews confirm this with others, although you can get slightly better by paying twice as much.


This is the setup I have on the car now for the winter. We haven't gotten much so far but I had no issues with the little that we did get.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

The DSC helps a lot. Yesterday I got a DSC malfunction message so I've was driving in the snow without it today. Definitely a lot more squirrelly and more slick getting going even with blizzaks on.




Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Depending on type of AS tires, 335d sucks to really really sucks in snow or wintery conditions, except when dry. If they are crappy conti RFT AS then they will still suck even in dry and clear conditions as the temp gets colder, hopping around on small bumps. Now some AS tires are better than others (Michelins), but I would still get winter/snow tires. I had Conti Extreme Winter contacts for the past 4 years and they performed pretty well and remained grippy in most snow conditions, but started to slip and get squirly this season. i had not had issues going up hills when I saw plenty of 4WD vehicles with AS having tough times going up hills, well until this year. Deeper snow and/or packed snow/ice, I also paired with Thule CS10 snowchains over the past 4 years (seems you can get a fined if you block traffic and don't have snowchains in VA). Since I flatted two of them in a DC pothole, which was fortuitous since the treadlife was close to replacement anyway, I have changed out to the Michelin Xice Xi3. I'm very happy with the Xice.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

I would think the 335d, as a well balanced, low rpm, high torque car would be quite good in the snow. 
Driving in the snow is 75% tires, 20% driver experience/skill and 5% car, maybe less. 
AWD gets you unstuck, up the slippery slopes without as much skill or planning and the like, but really doesn't do much for stopping or sliding. It also lets you take a corner like you have the best features of rear and front wheel drive at the same time, but not faster. Very little a skilled driver can't overcome.
That said, I love AWD and if you head to the mountains a lot, I would want it. If you are just running around Connecticut and the tri-states, it may not matter.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Jamolay said:


> I would think the 335d, as a well balanced, low rpm, high torque car would be quite good in the snow.


Problem is you have to be extremely soft on the throttle, especially in lower gears. Even starting in 2nd by default is sporty at times.

And snow tires, while needed on snow/ice, aren't really very good on dry/wet roads. There's easily enough torque available to spin snow tires on the 2-->3 upshift under full throttle.


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

even if you are soft on the throttle, nothing overcomes lack of tire grip.

snow/winter tires are very good in dry/wet under 40 degrees. i had zero problems during our freezing rain and rain on my Micheline Xice on my 335d yesterday, but i cannot say the same for my wife's 328ix with AS.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

floydarogers said:


> Problem is you have to be extremely soft on the throttle, especially in lower gears. Even starting in 2nd by default is sporty at times.
> 
> And snow tires, while needed on snow/ice, *aren't really very good on dry/wet roads.* There's easily enough torque available to spin snow tires on the 2-->3 upshift under full throttle.


Then you're on the wrong snow tires.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

u3b3rg33k said:


> Then you're on the wrong snow tires.


Well, let's see. I could waste my time and run through some logic to show how stupid a comment this is, or I could just call it stupid and get a warning from the moderator. Ooops, guess I've already made my choice.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

Given your sound logic so far, what snow tires do you use? I'm curious.


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## NWCT335d (Nov 14, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> Well, let's see. I could waste my time and run through some logic to show how stupid a comment this is, or I could just call it stupid and get a warning from the moderator. Ooops, guess I've already made my choice.


It wasn't a stupid comment at all. The statement was partially in response to your assertion that you can "spin snow tires on the 2-->3 upshift under full throttle", which tells me that you are on a soft, non-performance winter tire, or have som major modifications that few tires would handle. Just because someone expresses an opinion other than yours doesn't mean there needs to be some snide comment.

I, for one, and simply in my opinion, feel that winter tires can be a good compromise between getting through the winter months and not ending up in a ditch, or worse. I run Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 and they handle better than a lot of all-season (and even UHP all-season) tires I have driven on in the past. Are they as good as a Pilot Super Sport? No, of course not.

Perhaps if you did take the time to go through all of your reasoning, including the tires you are using, your power levels, etc., we could all get a better understanding of where you are coming from.


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

power on traction would suffer vs an AWD car, so make sure you use proper snow tires. It's manageable and by no means impossible to drive in the snow. Stopping traction should be the same in either cars, stopping is purely based on your brakes and tires, no AWD system will assist you much on the snow.

In my M3, I had to constantly switch between sport traction control, and traction control completely off to get moving in the really deep stuff. Again not impossible, but definitely not as good as AWD.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

Flying Ace said:


> power on traction would suffer vs an AWD car, so make sure you use proper snow tires. It's manageable and by no means impossible to drive in the snow. Stopping traction should be the same in either cars, stopping is purely based on your brakes and tires, no AWD system will assist you much on the snow.
> 
> In my M3, I had to constantly switch between sport traction control, and traction control completely off to get moving in the really deep stuff. Again not impossible, but definitely not as good as AWD.


Very true. also worth noting that the diesel engine has very little to do with anything here.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

u3b3rg33k said:


> Very true. also worth noting that the diesel engine has very little to do with anything here.


Actually not entirely true. The 335d has so much torque all things equal it's going to be more squirrelly in the back end.

Having said that, anyone who thinks that these cars are not just fine in the snow and ice with a proper set of snow tires either has not driven one or doesn't know how to drive in winter conditions.

I have blizzaks and my D performs just fine in tough central PA winters.

Personally I prefer the predictability of oversteer in a rwd car. But I also learned how to drive in the winter in Michigan in a rwd Oldsmobile.


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## NWCT335d (Nov 14, 2013)

3ismagic# said:


> Personally I prefer the predictability of oversteer in a rwd car.


Couldn't agree more. Prior to having the 335d I drove a 2005 Saab 92x Aero (WRX, the Saabaru) for 8 years. I feel much more confident with RWD, knowing exactly what to expect. I had a RWD e46 prior to the Saabaru and felt the same about that.


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

After 15 years of being supplied with AWD company cars (Subaru's) and never worrying about handling ability in the snow in NE Pennsylvania, my company was sold and I no longer have a company car. The best news about this is that I can buy the car I want, which is a 2011 335d.

This winter, I installed Bridgestone Blizzaks on the 335d, and it is an amazing car in the snow. It is just as capable as my previous "company" Subaru's were. My wife drives a Tahoe with regular all season tires and my 335d handles better in the snow and stops better than her Tahoe. With all the snow we have had this year, we have driven the 335d more than the Tahoe. 

I love the RWD performance year round, and with good snow tires, the 335d will go anywhere, no worries at all.

Here is a picture of the rest of my family BMW's.


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## NWCT335d (Nov 14, 2013)

Can't leave us hanging like that.....more info on that e46 please! It is.....interesting?


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

The E46 is a car that I picked up on Craigslist several years ago as a car to race in the 24 Hours of Lemons series (www.24hoursoflemons.com). When I picked it up, it had 170,000 miles on it and had the vanos seal issue which the previous owner was not aware how easy it really was to fix. The 24 Hours of Lemons series involves "themes" and decorating cars to match the theme. As you can tell, we chose Smokey and the Bandit which included our hand painted "Screaming Chicken"

We gutted it, installed a full roll cage, fire extinguisher system and an adjustable coil over suspension and left the rest of the car bone stock. We raced this for 3 seasons, replaced the clutch once, and other than that, car ran great. I sold the car to another team for this season since my new job will not give me the time to race it again.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

NWCT335d said:


> It wasn't a stupid comment at all. The statement was partially in response to your assertion that you can "spin snow tires on the 2-->3 upshift under full throttle", which tells me that you are on a soft, non-performance winter tire, or have som major modifications that few tires would handle. Just because someone expresses an opinion other than yours doesn't mean there needs to be some snide comment.
> 
> I, for one, and simply in my opinion, feel that winter tires can be a good compromise between getting through the winter months and not ending up in a ditch, or worse. I run Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 and they handle better than a lot of all-season (and even UHP all-season) tires I have driven on in the past. Are they as good as a Pilot Super Sport? No, of course not.
> 
> Perhaps if you did take the time to go through all of your reasoning, including the tires you are using, your power levels, etc., we could all get a better understanding of where you are coming from.


An outline:
1) I can spin my sport package 255/35R18 summer Michelin PS2 in 1st and 2nd, any time, any pavement, dry or wet.
2) I can get into TCS over any bump in the same tires, in 3rd and 4th. (Never done it in 5th/6th, because that would be scary fast.)
3) I have 225/45R18 Blizzak LM60 Performance snows on. These are go-flats, btw.
4) Considering 1) & 2), it's not surprising that a slightly narrower tire can be chirped in the shift to 3rd (before TCS catches it) - after all I'm close to that with the summers.
5) The main criteria is SNOW performance, hence the 225 width (also allows rotation in this non-staggered setup).
6) Note that these snows are actually a bit taller than the standard /40 profile. This actually DECREASES (slightly) the torque available at the tread. Better for snow. A /40 would spin a tiny bit more easily.
7) My car is bone stock. Don't know what's up with yours if it can't match my car's performance.

I've driven on PA2/3, in comparison to the LM60 they are slightly worse performers in snow, but slightly better on dry roads. Probably the PA4 will have similar characteristics.


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## DozerDan (Dec 18, 2013)

spencer500 said:


> The E46 is a car that I picked up on Craigslist several years ago as a car to race in the 24 Hours of Lemons series (www.24hoursoflemons.com). When I picked it up, it had 170,000 miles on it and had the vanos seal issue which the previous owner was not aware how easy it really was to fix. The 24 Hours of Lemons series involves "themes" and decorating cars to match the theme. As you can tell, we chose Smokey and the Bandit which included our hand painted "Screaming Chicken"
> 
> We gutted it, installed a full roll cage, fire extinguisher system and an adjustable coil over suspension and left the rest of the car bone stock. We raced this for 3 seasons, replaced the clutch once, and other than that, car ran great. I sold the car to another team for this season since my new job will not give me the time to race it again.


how many points did they penalize you for rocking that car? Buddy and I were going to do the lemons in a cop package charger that he had, but figured they would kill us on points since it was so new.


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## Blackfly (Nov 10, 2010)

subdude said:


> I currently own a 2008 328xi. I have planned on replacing it with a newer 335d sometime this year, however, I will be giving up the AWD to do so(unless there is an xDrive version that I am unaware of). How is the winter driving in the 335d?


I have a 2011 335D with studded Nokian Hakkapelitta snow tires on all four corners. If you grew up driving rear wheel drive like I did, you know what to expect. I say that studded snow tires are mandatory, 100 miles north of the Mason-Dixon. I've had almost no situations where I have not been able to go when and where I wanted to, but the studded snows made the difference.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, The real challenge in winter drving is this car with (low clearance) sports suspension, which I have, anything more than 10 inches of snow and you might as well have a snowplow on the front, if you know what I mean. I still LOVE this car. There have been no issues with this superb car. The only major warranty issue was a battery replacement at 30k. Replaced at no cost, the car now has 56,000 miles on it and it's been flawless.


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

DozerDan said:


> how many points did they penalize you for rocking that car? Buddy and I were going to do the lemons in a cop package charger that he had, but figured they would kill us on points since it was so new.


We were the first team nationwide to enter an E46 into the series, but surprisingly, we were not given any penalty laps.


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## DozerDan (Dec 18, 2013)

spencer500 said:


> We were the first team nationwide to enter an E46 into the series, but surprisingly, we were not given any penalty laps.


Damn, thats awesome. I really want to run the lemons, bunch of use have been talking about it for years. I used to race offroad and lemons seems like a much cheaper way to get back into racing.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

I remember my first "d" was tough to handle in snow...largely because of the huge amount of torque.I just kept my speeds down and did pretty well.


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## Preston9243 (12 mo ago)

Pat_X5 said:


> When I owned the 335d, I remember taking it up to the slopes for skiing and the car was great on snow, light ice, slush and sloped travel with non RFT Continental DWS tires.
> These are the tires I had on a second set of BMW wheels:
> 
> 
> ...


 I live in MN and currently have a Audi A4 Quattro but want to switch to a 335D I’m 17 and feel good driving in the snow do you think with snow tires all be good?


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## lgr122 (Aug 8, 2012)

I have 325d, 6-speed manual, sport suspension, AND crappy tires. I've been ok, but I recommend to buy best tires, then you're ok.

You should have soft gentle touch with your feet on pedals, that's how to drive well in winter with any car. 

RWD might get stuck on parking lot more often than 4WD, happened to me three times during... (How long was I signed in bimmerfest?) 
Keep shovel in trunk, just in case. 

Getting out of snow might be issue sometimes, on the road no problem.


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## lgr122 (Aug 8, 2012)

listerone said:


> I remember my first "d" was tough to handle in snow...largely because of the huge amount of torque.I just kept my speeds down and did pretty well.


Right, in snow, tires and grip is the issue, should be very gentle on right toe.

In winter, low power 4-cylinder can be as fast as others, it's about tires and driver. 

I had low power 4-cylinder BMW.

But still I was surprised, how I passed tuning Subaru in traffic circle, shouldn't be possible, if he had any clue about, what he was doing.


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