# Is it street legal to have a racing seat and harness?



## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

I'm looking for an E30 325is track car. A fair amount of the cars I've been finding have the driver's seat pretty worn out and will need to be replaced. The car will be for driver schools for a year or two and then I'll probably want to get into racing. So rather than spending the money on a replacement stock seat and then later changing to a racing seat, maybe go straight to the racing seat. Just an idea. Some questions:

-Would the racing seat then need a 5 point harness? I'm guessing the stock seat belts won't work with the racing seat.
-For driver schools would I need 2 reacing seats (one for me and one for instructor)? Or would two different seats be OK (racing seat for driver, stock seat for instructor)?
-Would a racing seat and harness setup be street legal?

Thanks.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The anser is not sure, you'll need equivalent restraints for the instructor (but I'm not sure about the seat), and if you have harnesses you need a roll cage.


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## Chris330Ci (Jan 23, 2002)

I believe the answer is yes to all of your questions, although not necessarily practical all the time. The racing seats would definitely require a 5 or 6 point harness for auto-x or track use but I would guess that the stock belts could probably be modified to fit around you and the seat as well for daily use.

As Nick said, equivalent restraints are required for student and instructor.

AFAIK, racing seats and harnesses are street legal...


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Yeah, I know you need equivalent restraints for driver and instructor, I just didn't know about seats. I'm guessing these racing seats are rather expensive.

People say not to et a 5 point harness without a roll cage, but a 4 point harness is OK without a roll cage. So how about putting in a 5 point harness, but only clipping in 4 points (until the roll cage is purchased later)? It would seem silly to buy a 4 point harness and then later ditch that for a 5 point one. Or am I missing something?


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## Chris330Ci (Jan 23, 2002)

JonW said:


> Yeah, I know you need equivalent restraints for driver and instructor, I just didn't know about seats. I'm guessing these racing seats are rather expensive.
> 
> People say not to et a 5 point harness without a roll cage, but a 4 point harness is OK without a roll cage. So how about putting in a 5 point harness, but only clipping in 4 points (until the roll cage is purchased later)? It would seem silly to buy a 4 point harness and then later ditch that for a 5 point one. Or am I missing something?


Personally I won't use any harness without a cage. I went back and forth for a long time on the Schroth clip-ins but decided against it. So ideally IMO, one would want to install the cage first, racing seats (maybe a lesser model for passenger), and then 5pt harnesses. And yes, it gets very expensive.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

BEWARE. Not all harnesses are DOT legal. And if they are not DOT legal, they are technically not street legal.

Scroth does make DOT approved harnesses.

Will you get nailed for illegal harnesses on teh street, maybe, maybe not. Your choice to try it or buy DOT legal ones.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Terry- thanks. So I guess that was part of my question- some harnesses are street legal and some not. No reason to avoid the legal ones. Out of curiosity, I wonder what makes one legal and another not. 

Chris- Yeah, what order to do the cage, harness, etc. is one worth thinking about. Hence my original question. But for now, I've got to find that elusive track car. If you're a BMW dealer and happen to come across any E30 325is/s...


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## Galun (Aug 14, 2002)

Chris330Ci said:


> Personally I won't use any harness without a cage. I went back and forth for a long time on the Schroth clip-ins but decided against it. So ideally IMO, one would want to install the cage first, racing seats (maybe a lesser model for passenger), and then 5pt harnesses. And yes, it gets very expensive.


AFAIK, a harness will be ok if your car is a sedan - the B pillar will help prevent the roof from crumbling in case of a roll over. Instructors were willing to get into my sedan with harness during driving schools.


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## cenotaph (Dec 19, 2001)

First: NEVER use a 5/6-point harness without the anti-sub strap(s). Schroth 4-point harnesses are specially designed to prevent submarining (sliding under the lap belt in a crash). I don't have any experience with other 4-point harnesses. They may or may not provide anti-sub protection. In general, it's dangerous to use a 5/6-point harness with any seat that's not designed for one. I'll also add that it's very dangerous to modify any safty equipment (harnesses, seats, etc.) if you don't know what you're doing.

Second: It's generally a bad idea to use a racing shell/seat without at least a roll bar. These seats are not designed to collapse in the event of a roll over like your stock seats are. I don't have any experience with "sport" seats that are similar to racing seats. They may or may not be OK to use without a roll bar.

Third: It's not really a good idea to put a cage/roll bar in your daily driver. Even with a harness/seat belt you still move around too much and your head could easily bounce off the tubing. This doesn't really apply to your question, but I felt it was worth while to add.

I got all this info from local club racers/track junkies and Joe Marko. Joe is in charge of safety for the Boston BMWCCA track schools and the owner of HMS.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Cenotaph- Yes, I want to keep it all safe. I'm not looking to save a few bucks at the expense of safety. But some of those thigns you said I hadn't thought about. Like a race seat not collapsing in a roll, so don't get one without a cage. Or your head hitting the roll bars in a daily driver. Makes perfect sense. Thanks.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Mainly the fact that the company does the testing required to meet DOT certification. Most comapnies don't bother because their nomrla market doesn't care.

WRT sub straps, Schroth has an allowable install that mounted teh sub straps back to teh seat belt mounting points. See Randy Forbes post ion his install. He did it with Simpson belts I think. But teh Schroth site does show this as acceptable with some of their setups.

I agree that a 5/6 should NOT be used with out some form of anti sub protection.

As for harnesses without roll bars, I run Schroth 4 pt for track use. Never had an instructor not use them. My personal feeling si that the likelihood of the roof crushing is MUCH lower than the hitting a wall. Plus the added location akes the driving safer by enhancing control. YMV.

WRT racing seats and no roll bar/cage, again personl choice. Realize there are downsides. I have runa racing seat on the street in the past (ina convertible no less). And I would probably do it again.

Same thing with the roll bar/cage in a street car. ALthough with a racing seat an harness setup there is only so much moving you are gonig to do. Pad the cage properly, even if you will only drive while wearing a helmet.

It comes down to thee are many possible scenarios that can result in injury, starting with driving itself. Just do each step with your eyes open and an acknowledgement of the risks/benefits.


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## bluedraggon (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a current z4 current and wonering if it is safe for me to put in a 4 point it has the bult in roll bars and when you hit the breaks it realey throws you forward in the seat


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