# Getting startet with boost, first ECU!



## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Hello everyone, this is my first post and first questions 
I just just wanted to ad a big sorry if I make lots of grammar mistakes, english is not my native language.
So I have come to an mission to turbo my m50 engine. First thing I would like to learn about is ECU, I have a lot of projects going on around me using programmable ECU`s like MS 1 to 3, VEMS, Moates Ostrich.. 
When I look at these ECU`s site manuals and instructions, I understand that I have no clue where to start. Is there any place where I could start from the beggining? Some information for dummies? As moates ostrich is one of cheapest ways to changes Your ECU`s values I would prefer it, also I have seen a nice turbo setup on m50 using Ostrich. If I am wrong and should look ather way - please let me know  Basic things I know are (for these ECU`s) - Moates Ostrich is (probably) able to connect to original Bosch ECU by connecting it to "chipspot". Have not seen it but I have been told that You open your original m50 ECU and just connect Ostrich to it.. In case of MS or VEMS you have to change your original ECU to this specific ECU, rewiring it. This is basically what I know. I want to ad that I do not need a perfect setup, just want to learn something and develop my knowledge.
I hope You understood me and I am sorry for my english again, hope to see some answers soon. And i hope this is the right place where I posted this thread.

Best regards,
Paul


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

I'm not too well educated with the Ostrich ECU, however, cheap is generally not what you want with ECU's. I am using a MS system, it has all the features you could want. 16x16 tables are the min you want (Meaning the graph on which you plot the fuel/ ignition). You need AC control if you are retaining AC. Last, but not least (although not needed, it's very nice) get one with 2-step. Even though it's an extra, two-step is great for launches and it has almost become a standard feature. This means if your ECU doesn't have it, it's kind of sub-par. All this said, I'll take a look at the Ostrich and get back to you.


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

Ok, the Ostrich is barebones. It is 16x16, but has no AC control or 2-step. It's your choice, however. I'd like to recommend the MS PNP G2 (Link Below). It has the above, and more. It comes with a MAP sensor which you will need to tune your boosted engine (The Ostrich doesn't, $130 more).


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Hello and thanks a lot of showing some interest in my questions. But what I really need is to learn some basic things, I am a fast learner but cannot find any info on this. If I get MS, what I start with? Finding all the signals from car to MS pins - connecting hardware to car. So whats next? What program I use to open this ECU? How can I connect it to PC? How are these ports called? Something like that. I really appreciate all info from You guys, thanks


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

The MS is a PNP ecu. This means that you actually take the stock one out, and replace it with the MS ecu. I forgot to out that that is a major benefit. The program you use to interface with the ecu is a official product, a cd included with the ecu. You get a cable to connect to your PC, you may need an adapter (to usb), that may cost like 10$... This is also a somewhat common ecu, so you could get a base tune off of a forum to get a close enough tune to drive to the dyno.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

What ecu I should buy if I choose at start to connect it to m50b25 and later probably try to turbo it? Would it work with ms1? Why is ms2 better? When the new ECU will be connected I understand that there will be no info on it, so car wont understand it at all? Where to get basic things, what basic things are needed? Thanks a lot, I am really happy for Your response here


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

I'd say MS2, it is just the newer version with more/better technology. In this case, you wouldn't be able to use the ECU linked, that's for an M20B25... I misread your first post. To be honest, these aren't the best forums for boost. Get on r3vlimited.com, they have more info on boosted setups. That would also be where to get the "basic things" for the ECU to run the car. That is what a base tune is, what I was talking about earlier. If you dug around on r3v, you could probably find a tune for a build similar to yours that would get you close enough to limp your car to a dyno tune.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks a lot, really, great to have response here


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

MPauls said:


> Thanks a lot, really, great to have response here


Anytime. Got everything figured out?


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

No, have not asked yet there, but because of You, I have some basics now. How much would ms2 cost? What I wanted to ask more is, You wrote about 16x16 tables, what are these, how are they used? How can I find some "script" for some setup, just to look at it - what are first things to code, write? When MS is connected and opened by a program, does it has any script, language on it? Or just a plain file?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

Sorry, I swear I replied earlier, but I guess I never hit Post. The Megasquirt 2 that would run an M50 (more universal) is $435 (link below), you would have to wire this up, which can be very daunting. If you don't know how to solder or crimp, get learning. The tables are like this.










You can edit each little "cell," the bigger number of cells, the more precise of a tune, which is why you don't want lower than 12x12 ( I know I said 16x16, but I meant the lowest you should get is 12x12). 
If you want to see how tuning works, watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLyk58f-u9I

It comes with software shown in the video. With a lot of studying and a little experience, it is somewhat easy to tune. Like I said, find someone with a similar setup for a base tune, and they can send it. You could then import it and it will be close enough to get you to a dyno tune.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Hello and thanks a lot for reply  What did You mean by "dyno tune" - so that I can ride to a real proffesional tuner with by basic setup and he would finish it? I have been soldering some basic things, I understand that if I buy this already assembled MS2 kit, I do not have to solder anything else except wires from my car to MS2? Am I right? I should probably buy a new wiring for my e30, so If I fu*k up, I can replace them. How can I now, which sensor/wire goes to which pin on MS2?

On that video, author says that he is assuming, that if I watch this video, I can already start my car, so are there any other codes or something else than this 16x16 table?

What about thos MAF/MAP sensors, what about them? Also, do I need a wide band lamba? Do not understand this part also..


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

You're spot on about the dyno (a dyno is like a tread-mill for cars, meaning the tuner can focus on tuning, any decent pro tuner uses one). You are also right about the wiring, you would only be wiring between the MS2 and car, you might want a spare wiring harness, but most people don't buy harnesses unless needed. To figure out what goes to what during wiring, the harness from the MS2 (purchased separately from the same site) will have tags on each wire. You need to get a wiring diagram specific to your car and match the wires. The biggest difficulty is that sometimes the ECU and BMW call the same wire different things, so you would have to be somewhat fluent in the language of cars. As for tuning, watch some other MS2 videos (The first video has some links in the beginning, those are a great place to start). There are many other interfaces, some similar to the one shown. Your ECU has a built in MAP sensor, so you're good there. As for the wideband, that is preferred, it makes things somewhat easier and safer during tuning, but is not needed. (It shows the AFR).


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

MPauls said:


> Hi, I wanted to ask, how can I connect to ms2? Is there any adapter, not expensive? There is a small spot where to connect, mby you have some pictures of those pins? connector which goes to car wiring?


Sure, let's keep it to this thread, though.










This plugs into the MS2, the other end gets wired into the car. There are no adapters to our cars (EDIT: Actually, what car do you have? There may be adapters/PNP ECU) , that's why our cars are more unique, not too many companies make parts for us. As of now, with the info I have, I'd assume you'll have to wire it in.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Thanks for reply  So I have to buy this adapter also? It is probably on MS page too. I have bmw e30 with m50b25. Do they attach information, manual or something, wiring diagram?

Edit: found out, that You have to buy adapter for 50 bucks.

http://www.diyautotune.com/images/msharness/mswiring.png

Does this diagram apply to all MS? As for ms2?

Edit: and yes, I read that this adapter applies to all ms..


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

Sounds about right.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Planing to start with m50b20, they are much cheaper, and if I do something wrong, wont be so painful. If everything works, I would like to go for b25, I hope I am right about exhaust, that 2.0 and 2.5 share the same size.


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

I wouldn't know, Im an M20 guy. :rofl:


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Do You have any videos on Your project or something? m20 e34?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

No, I'm in the planning stage. Trust me, though, I do know what I'm doing. 
BTW if your not an E34 guy, like no one has a M20 turbo E34


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi again  I have difficulties finding engine without vanos system. How does ms2 work with vanos? Is there a lot of mindf*ck and work?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

I'd imagine so. There are Vanos deletes. You should look that up. I though you already had an M50, BTW?


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

No, I was searching for one. And they are all gone. I think it is because of the winter. When the spring is going to rise, all "drifters" will sell their rusty beamers, and there will will be lots of 2.0 on market, I hope 
They delete vanos from ecu or mechanically?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

Ok, good luck. The Vanos delete is both ECU and mechanical. I did some research, and decided it would just be better to find a non-Vanos M50. That will be easiest and most reliable by far. Another thing you could do is buy an M20, that's what I know about and could guide you through. That would be more of a budget option, however. You never did mention your budget?


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi  Also it is a big up for old type m50 engines that were produced for 2 years after m50 invention, they used non aluminium blocks. Actually I do not have planned budget - as long as it is not rediciously expensive - I am in! Oh, m20 sounds good as well, before this I wanted to make m20b20 carburator turbo, so I don`t have to use any ECU, but some problems appeared. Thanks for advice, I`ll look for some m20 as well, but in my country there are more e30 with m50 than m20, like it was some 3 -5 years ago.. Is it true (mby You know) that it is possible to use 2.4td or 2.4d exhaust manifold on m20 engines? For m50 I would go by welding up m52 exhaust collectors together, so I do not have to buy china stuff which won`t fit probably. Thanks


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

MPauls said:


> Hi  Also it is a big up for old type m50 engines that were produced for 2 years after m50 invention, they used non aluminium blocks. Actually I do not have planned budget - as long as it is not rediciously expensive - I am in! Oh, m20 sounds good as well, before this I wanted to make m20b20 carburator turbo, so I don`t have to use any ECU, but some problems appeared. Thanks for advice, I`ll look for some m20 as well, but in my country there are more e30 with m50 than m20, like it was some 3 -5 years ago.. Is it true (mby You know) that it is possible to use 2.4td or 2.4d exhaust manifold on m20 engines? For m50 I would go by welding up m52 exhaust collectors together, so I do not have to buy china stuff which won`t fit probably. Thanks


I think it would be worth it for a non-Vanos M50, then. You should get some H-Beam rods and low compression pistons. I didn't know you welded, you could always buy a stock manifold and hack it up. I personally am going to be making a flange (CNC Plasma cutter) and making one from scratch, but most people don't have access to a plasma cutter and I don't think they sell any either.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Still waiting for my car. Mby its the "cosmic energy" that does not allow me to find one because I have another project, that I bought, which has to be finished.


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

MPauls said:


> Still waiting for my car. Mby its the "cosmic energy" that does not allow me to find one because I have another project, that I bought, which has to be finished.


Good luck dude.


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## Rancid SD (Nov 26, 2014)

So looking into this a little more they also have the ms3 system and im noticing a trend that if i want aftermarket engine management i will have to wire in everything. Or is there a plug and play tune-able system for the 528i and if im going to wire in this type of ems is there a good diy or pin out that i can go by that you can direct me to?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

Rancid SD said:


> So looking into this a little more they also have the ms3 system and im noticing a trend that if i want aftermarket engine management i will have to wire in everything. Or is there a plug and play tune-able system for the 528i and if im going to wire in this type of ems is there a good diy or pin out that i can go by that you can direct me to?


No PnP for your car that I could find. I have no idea of the pin-out, hop onto the E39 sub-forum and start digging. :thumbup:


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

I found some connectors for m20 engines (You just plug out Your original ecu and plug in ms), but I cannot understand why are they two time more expensive than MS2?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

MPauls said:


> I found some connectors for m20 engines (You just plug out Your original ecu and plug in ms), but I cannot understand why are they two time more expensive than MS2?


The luxury of a PnP ECU. Just an excuse to charge more.


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## MPauls (Jan 8, 2015)

Hi guys  Wanted to ask you something. So, as we know oil line is needed for a turbine. What I want to do is to make seperate oil circle for my turbine. SO it does not involve my engine. For this I need some kind a pump, are there any electric 12v oil pumps you know, recomend?


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## MeNoo (Jun 22, 2014)

MPauls said:


> Hi guys  Wanted to ask you something. So, as we know oil line is needed for a turbine. What I want to do is to make seperate oil circle for my turbine. SO it does not involve my engine. For this I need some kind a pump, are there any electric 12v oil pumps you know, recomend?


I looked into this, and to my knowledge, there are very few pumps that would work. The ones that work are like $150 and up...


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