# 100k Mile Club



## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Flyingman said:


> OK, dropped off my 2010 335D for its 100k service.
> 
> Basically all they did was a 13k oil interval, oil, filter, DEF. I added wiper blades and asked them to change the Tranny Oil but SA said BMW will not touch the tranny fluid other than to top it off if leaking. Said they have more concern with issues after changing oil and disturbing the "debris". They don't recommend changing the oil, period. Anyone else experience this? Guess I'll have to go with an Indy or else just live with it.
> 
> I asked for a tire balance and rotate but SA said my rears were near worn limit so suggested I just wait and replace the tires and have it done at that time. My rears are near the limit but the fronts still have good tread. I know I must have over 30+k on these tires. I'm lovin the Michelin PSS!:thumbup:


Who said BMW will not touch the tranny fluid other than topping it off? That is wrong. Page 10 of the 2010 335d diesel service warranty book clearly lists, "Automatic Transmission (not shown in CBS). Maintenance work:  Replace ATF at intervals of 100,000 miles." This means both the ATF filter and the ATF.

When was the last time the fuel filter/strainer (13327793672) was replaced? It is supposed to be done every other oil change.

Did you or they put in a new Air Filter? when have you had a new cabin microfilter replaced?

BMW doesn't recommend rotating tires, actually. It's clearly in the manual. If you bought new tires, the tire warranty is dependent upon the manufacturer's recommendation for rotating tires, which in BMW's case is not to rotate, despite the heavy upsell from BMW service centers to have you pay for one.

Unless PS fluid is discolored, there's no reason to change the PS fluid.

Battery? When was the last time you got it changed? 6 years is running the limit normally.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

imtjm said:


> When was the last time the fuel filter/strainer (13327793672) was replaced? It is supposed to be done every other oil change.
> 
> Unless PS fluid is discolored, there's no reason to change the PS fluid.
> 
> Battery? When was the last time you got it changed? 6 years is running the limit normally.


If I'm not mistaken the fuel filter interval was increased to every 3rd oil change.

I also use to regularly change the PS fluid. Then the rack seals on our E46 started leaking so bad the rack had to be replaced. Did all that fresh fluid/additives have something to do with it?

I am having my battery changed today, 5.5 years old. There is a weak cell and the car was yelling at me about excessive discharge & low voltage. Some long trips stopped the messages but rather then end up with a no-start at an inconvenient time, getting it changed. - Ended up being $335 (plus tax) at an independent for an Interstate AGM battery including registration. Guess this is about the going rate.


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

KeithS said:


> If I'm not mistaken the fuel filter interval was increased to every 3rd oil change.
> 
> I also use to regularly change the PS fluid. Then the rack seals on our E46 started leaking so bad the rack had to be replaced. Did all that fresh fluid/additives have something to do with it?
> 
> I am having my battery changed today, 5.5 years old. There is a weak cell and the car was yelling at me about excessive discharge & low voltage. Some long trips stopped the messages but rather then end up with a no-start at an inconvenient time, getting it changed.


1. Fuel filter: differs from models. service warranty manual for 335d, it's every 2nd oil change (p. 12 At every 2nd engine oil change: Replace diesel fuel filter (335d only)) which applies to the OP's and my 2010. Other diesel models might be different, for example, 328d and 528d fuel filter change is every 4th engine oil change. X5 35d is every 3rd engine oil change.

2. I doubt fresh fluid had anything to do with leaking seals. Seals eventually fail.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

IMTJM,

Thanks for the input. I pulled up my 335D BMW Checklist and the ATF is 100k as you note. I sent that over to the SA that told me BMW wouldn't do it, and asked for their clarification. He said he went and spoke with the Service techs and they recommended against doing the change, that usually problems occur afterwards and a new Tranny would cost $10k.

I said, yes I understand what the Techs may say, but the BMW printed information recommends the ATF change at 100k. So WTF!? Over!:tsk:

I think I will raise it up to the Service Manager level if for no other reason to point out the disconnect with the OEM Recommendation in print and what their service folks are saying.

My battery was changed about 2 years ago after about 4 years. The battery is a no brainer, the moment it starts to give you trouble and you have 3-4 years, just replace it, don't fool yourself into thinking it is something else.

The fuel filter was every 2 oil changes but I recall them saying it was now every 3rd. I've never had an issue with fuel quality, usually always buy from the same source, so knock on wood!


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I just sent an email directly to ZF in Germany to see what they recommend.:dunno:


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Flyingman said:


> IMTJM,
> 
> Thanks for the input. I pulled up my 335D BMW Checklist and the ATF is 100k as you note. I sent that over to the SA that told me BMW wouldn't do it, and asked for their clarification. He said he went and spoke with the Service techs and they recommended against doing the change, that usually problems occur afterwards and a new Tranny would cost $10k.
> 
> ...


that's a load of hogwash if the BMW SA tech is saying that. BMW recommends it at 100k. You could do it yourself if you can get your vehicle lifted flat. If you google search, you can see step by step instructional videos and buy a ATF and filter replacement kit. Seems if you have a $10k tranny issue, if you don't change the ATF and ATF filter and there is crap inside mucking the tranny up; moreover, BMW service centers never hesitate to recommend lots of fluid replacements and other things which BMW manufacturer doesn't recommend in black and white, so their logic is idiotic. Seems like they want your tranny to fail by not doing it so they can get $10k out of you for a new tranny.

re: fuel filter, I think they are using reverse logic of different models, since they all vary. Again, unless there is a SIB that says 335d is every 3 years, the service manual still says 2 years for the 2010 335d. Given the 335d emissions related issues, I would opt on the conservative side of every 2nd oil change vice 3rd. I am definitely not a person who recommends more frequent servicing, but this is an exception based on what BMW originally stated and the scheduled servicing BMW has done on my 335d under warranty and extended warranty. If BMW is now somehow saying every 3rd for the 335d, it would save them money, so there would be no reason or justification my service depts changed according to the every 2nd for the 335d, since they wouldn't be getting reimbursed. Again, difference models have different service intervals for the fuel filter as I've already listed.


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Flyingman said:


> I just sent an email directly to ZF in Germany to see what they recommend.:dunno:


I imagine ZF is going to say according to the manufacturer's specifications, so you are better off asking BMW. However, the Service Manager should know when you point it out in the service warranty manual in black and white. But, you don't have to wait for ZF to respond, since the answer is on its website:
http://www.zf.com/brands/en_de/zf_parts/products_zp/oil_change_kits_zp/oil-change-kits.html

"Q: How often should an oil change be carried out on ZF automatic transmissions? A: Regular maintenance intervals will substantially increase the automatic transmission's service life. ZF recommends a regular oil change at between 80 000 and 120 000 km or after 8 years depending upon the stress."

Of course, BMW is more conservative and writes 100k miles with no years stipulation.

Do note that oil change implies the filter, too.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

As far as transmission fluid change, I have covered on all fronts. Just "in case". I'm having it changed while still under the extended warranty. In that way if something does happen (unlikely), I'm still covered. :thumbup:


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Well, so far BMW is saying they wont do it, period.

I asked the SA to put me in contact with the Service Manager as I find it rather strange the manual says one thing while their techs are saying another.

ZF in Germany is also on the case, they just responded asking for my VIN. I also spoke with ZF NA and they were a bit shy on recommending much of anything other than to follow what the OEM states. Which so far is 100k miles!

I definitely want to get it done but want to understand why in the hell BMW is shying away from doing it. They should have the best experience with this as they see so many more of these units than anyone. Warranty and Extended Maintenance have all expired now!


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Flyingman said:


> Well, so far BMW is saying they wont do it, period.
> 
> I asked the SA to put me in contact with the Service Manager as I find it rather strange the manual says one thing while their techs are saying another.
> 
> ...


BMW, BMW NA, or the BMW dealership? BMW isn't BMW NA isn't the BMW dealership. BMW dealership are independent operations and BMW NA and BMW can't do much but tally up complaint reports about a dealership. I don't see how a BMW service department can refuse to do a maintenance function. The SA and tech sound like idiots. Hopefully the SM is clear minded; however, I would be scared to have that service department do it anyway now. Is there another dealership near? Otherwise, I'd look up an indy service provider. Figure ZF would revert to OEM, which is expected. The dealership probably just wants $10k for a new tranny. They are also probably basing it off the new service warranty manuals which say it doesn't need to be done unless a tranny repair.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I have so far only dealt with the BMW Service Department, and it is all verbal with some email exchanges.

I see elsewhere on this forum someone is actually trying to prepare a class action suit. Good luck!

I did just get this response directly from ZF Germany:

Dear Tito Giron, 
for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information: 
After your warranty period is past, we recommend you perform a drain and fill every 60k miles or 8 years. You will be able to replace 5-7 liters of fluid. You should also replace the filter..

Please reply to this mail using the “Reply” button of you mail client – DO NOT CHANGE THE E-MAIL SUBJECT.
For further questions or updates please contact ZF Services North America, LLC., telephone: +1 847 478 6868. 
Always provide your request ID when contacting us regarding this request, please. 

Kind regards 

Your ZF Service Desk 
ZF Friedrichshafen AG 
88038 Friedrichshafen,Germany


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Flyingman said:


> I did just get this response directly from ZF Germany:
> 
> Dear Tito Giron,
> for further processing of your request, we kindly ask for the following information:
> After your warranty period is past, we recommend you perform a drain and fill every 60k miles or 8 years. You will be able to replace 5-7 liters of fluid. You should also replace the filter..


As I noted, ZF posted that on its website, and since it is out of warranty, they don't need to say refer to OEM, they'll just give you their ZF in general. 60k miles is the average between the "80 000 and 120 000 km" ZF lists on the website, which isn't surprising. I'm still amused the dealership SA is telling you no, when BMW dealerships have no qualms about pushing unnecessary fluid changes, induction services, rotations, etc. At the end of the day, you probably have to send it to an indy to get it done. The reverse logic BMW dealerships use is deafening. They will push something like tire rotations which BMW explicitly recommends against in all their literature but won't do something BMW recommends which is in their literature. Moreover, they have no problem replacing brake fluid in a sealed system but not ATF in a sealed system because ATF is a sealed system. They will replace if ATF is contaminated, but won't otherwise. It is rather absurd.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Well,

After going round and round with ZF about trying to order the correct Oil Change Kit, they sent me to California Transmission Supply Company and I placed the order for the kit which comes with replacement pan (plastic?) seal, bolts, a sleeve?, and I think 8 quarts of Lifeguard ATF. Price is about $258 plus shipping of about $28.0.

I contacted a local Transmission Service Company and they quoted me $200 for the whole service but they don't use original parts, oil, etc... so I told them I would supply the kit and they do the labor. Just need to get the price for that but I feel better knowing what goes into the tranny.:thumbup:

Amazing BMW puts us through all of this. I suspect they have had some really bad issues with tranny fluid changes and their warranty/liability folks decided to hell with doing this service. Otherwise why would they do this?


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Flyingman said:


> Well,
> 
> After going round and round with ZF about trying to order the correct Oil Change Kit, they sent me to California Transmission Supply Company and I placed the order for the kit which comes with replacement pan (plastic?) seal, bolts, a sleeve?, and I think 8 quarts of Lifeguard ATF. Price is about $258 plus shipping of about $28.0.
> 
> ...


the plastic pan is actually a combination pan and filter. other bmw models had the plastic filter and metal pan to cover it, but your car has a combo pan/filter.

Who knows why the dealerships won't do perform it. At 100k and now never, the service is beyond all their warranties anyway. They have to replace if the fluid is contaminated, hoses leak, or transmission repair, so the whole warranty/liability argument wouldn't make any sense.

It is funny that the dealerships won't do the service now, because I recall my last car they recommended doing it on my e46, which I argued why since it was a sealed system. Now they are using the sealed system as reason not to do it.

Good luck


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Makes no sense, either way. I assume each BMW shop does what they want to then?

I ordered the kit from CTSC.com for $258 plus fed ex ground shipping and the Transmission Shop said they would only charge me an hours labor, about $100, so this sounds reasonable to me.

I may try to collect a sample of the ATF and have it analyzed just so I can share the results with the group.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I did find this website which I think offers the best perspective about the ATF change:

http://www.ismotors.com/bmw-repair/transmission-service-bmw.html


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## totitan (May 11, 2013)

I bought the pan/filter from Amazon for $86.00 http://www.amazon.com/ATP-B-409-Aut...1-2&keywords=bmw+335d+transmission+pan/filter

the pump from Amazon for $7.77 http://www.amazon.com/Plews-55001-L...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00

And 10L of fluid from ebay for $115.27 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automatic-T...ash=item23416245ec:g:dWYAAOSwT6pVufC7&vxp=mtr

It was easy to do and Ive had no issues.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> Makes no sense, either way. I assume each BMW shop does what they want to then?
> 
> I ordered the kit from CTSC.com for $258 plus fed ex ground shipping and the Transmission Shop said they would only charge me an hours labor, about $100, so this sounds reasonable to me.
> 
> I may try to collect a sample of the ATF and have it analyzed just so I can share the results with the group.


OK,

I had the ATF changed today at a local Indy. Good mechanic, ex-BMW, certified in the Diesels as well as the I-3 and I-8, so we had a lot to talk about. He confirmed that at BMW they are instructed to never change the oil in the AT, period. I told him that ZF recommends every 60k miles which he concurred with.

I asked him to save the oil so I could at least look at it. It was *BLACK!*, So it was well past time to do the ATF change.

I think BMW is criminal in not recommending the ATF change out at 50k or 60k. Of course I cant say what the quality of the oil was, but tech said it was well used/heated up.

Took him about 2 hours in all and he changed out the Rear Diff oil as well.

Everything else looked good under the bottom. He had nothing but good things to say about his experience with the 335D's.

He did his test drive, all, worked fine, good to go!:bigpimp:

So the kit was $258 plus about $30 shipping. The service was $250 plus tax for the ATF and then another $90 for the rear Diff oil change, total of $370 for labor. A bit pricey but then they let me observe and ask all the questions I wanted.:thumbup:


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Here is a photo of the oil condition as well as the underside of the AT.

Thank god no metal was found.:thumbup:


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

totitan said:


> I bought the pan/filter from Amazon for $86.00 http://www.amazon.com/ATP-B-409-Aut...1-2&keywords=bmw+335d+transmission+pan/filter
> 
> the pump from Amazon for $7.77 http://www.amazon.com/Plews-55001-L...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00
> 
> ...


I've seen others complain about leaking seals, etc... when it is not OEM. I went with the ZF Kit, comes complete with everything including the bolts, a wire plug adapter that is supposed to be replaced at the same time, and the oil, of course the plastic pan with integral filter. The kit price appears to be slightly more than what you paid from e-bay. I went for piece of mind.:thumbup:


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