# Grand Prix du Canada 2005++++SPOILER++++



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

In a recent interview, Patrick Head said something to the effect that good starts would help BMW Williams performance. :doh: So I see that Nick and Mawk are spending time at Silverstone this week...practicing starts. Long overdue. Perhaps they will have it down before Canada gets underway.

BTW, Kimi beat the crap out of everyone else in Silverstone sessions today.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

I don't like Kimi, he's an ass... but I think that BMW will improve a lot by getting their start in check. Also I think they were lacking straight line spreed too... cornering was fine...


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Note that this is one of the non-Speed broadcast events in the US. Speed Channel has qualifying on Saturday, 1:00 Eastern, but CBS has the race live at 1:00 Eastern on Sunday.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

berford said:


> Note that this is one of the non-Speed broadcast events in the US. Speed Channel has qualifying on Saturday, 1:00 Eastern, but CBS has the race live at 1:00 Eastern on Sunday.


 I don't like it when CBS does the broadcast... I like Steve, David and the Winston guy better...


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

MG67 said:


> I don't like Kimi, he's an ass... but I think that BMW will improve a lot by getting their start in check. Also I think they were lacking straight line spreed too... cornering was fine...


They're ALL @sses. David Coulthard is suppose to be the "gentlemen driver" but most of the time he just whines about the qualifying format and his car. :dunno:

The "start" problem they have on the Williams is MECHANICAL. They've had that problem for nearly 2 years now, ever since launch control was banned. Montoya qualified well last year, but always dropped a spot or two every start...And he supposedly have THE fastest reflexes on the grid.

They "lack" straightline speed because the aerodynamics hasn't been fully sorted out yet. The car has excellent suspension package (their tire wear is almost as good, if not better than Renaults), one of the most powerful engines in the paddock, but lack of an efficient aero package means downforce must be cranked up to make it through the corners.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

The HACK said:


> They're ALL @sses. David Coulthard is suppose to be the "gentlemen driver" but most of the time he just whines about the qualifying format and his car. :dunno:
> 
> The "start" problem they have on the Williams is MECHANICAL. They've had that problem for nearly 2 years now, ever since launch control was banned. Montoya qualified well last year, but always dropped a spot or two every start...And he supposedly have THE fastest reflexes on the grid.
> 
> They "lack" straightline speed because the aerodynamics hasn't been fully sorted out yet. The car has excellent suspension package (their tire wear is almost as good, if not better than Renaults), one of the most powerful engines in the paddock, but lack of an efficient aero package means downforce must be cranked up to make it through the corners.


 I know they are all big babies... they work with equipment that is better then anything in the world and keep on whining about everything...:thumbdwn:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

MG67 said:


> I know they are all big babies... they work with equipment that is better then anything in the world and keep on whining about everything...:thumbdwn:


Well, unless you drive for Minardi or Sauber, you have blame *something* or you're taking the fall yourself. Gotta justify those big salaries.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Let's not forget one thing about DC - his car is just a rebadged Jaguar, his salary is a joke, he pays his own expenses and gets paid for the points. The only thing he has going for him is a lifetime supply of Red Bull and look at what he's done this year, he did way better than Montoya that replaced him!


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> .... and look at what he's done this year, he did way better than Montoya that replaced him!


I don't understand what you mean by that. To wit: DC had all of 24 points in 2004 whereas JPM (as a lame duck, which, I believe, affected his performance negatively) had 58. As DC "replacement," JPM has 16 points already, even having missed two races. He's certainly on track to exceed DC's 2004 total points.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

berford said:


> Well, unless you drive for Minardi or Sauber, you have blame *something* or you're taking the fall yourself. Gotta justify those big salaries.


 I loved Jos Verstappen, not sure about Albers, I liked him a lot in the DTM but in F1... I don't know...


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

berford said:


> I don't understand what you mean by that. To wit: DC had all of 24 points in 2004 whereas JPM (as a lame duck, which, I believe, affected his performance negatively) had 58. As DC "replacement," JPM has 16 points already, even having missed two races. He's certainly on track to exceed DC's 2004 total points.


Ok, let's look at this season a little closer

Melbourne: DC - 5 points, JPM - 3 points

Sepang: DC - 3, JPM - 5

Bahrain: DC - 1, JPM - Did Not Compete

Imola: DC- 0 after numerous collisions with Massa, JPM - DNC

Barcelona: DC - 1, JPM - 2

Monte Carlo: DC- DNF after hit from MS, JPM - 4

Nurburgring: DC - 5 (drive through penalty denied him sure podium finish), JPM - 2

Starting in Bahrain McLaren became capable of winning GP, only proved by Kimi at Barcelona. We should judge drivers in comparison with their teammates, McLaren: Kimi - 27 points, JPM - 16; RBR: DC - 15 points, Klien -3, Liuzzi - 1.

Since you mentioned 2004 season let me remind you that Jaguar Cosworth team scored a total of 10 points in 2004. Kimi scored only 45 points and it is safe to say that he is on track of exceeding that on 2005.

Say what you want about DC but in 2005 he performs better than anyone expected, especially given that he drives what is in fact Jaguar chassis. Montoya on the other hand drives the newest MP4-20, currently the fastest car on the grid and is sitting in 8th place with Schumi. Michael at least can blame the tires for his performance, JPM his poor "tennis" game.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

I'm driving up tomorrow. :thumbup:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Ok, let's look at this season a little closer
> 
> Melbourne: DC - 5 points, JPM - 3 points
> 
> ...


I thought your main point was that *as the replacement for DC*, JPM was not doing as well as DC did at McLaren. The points tell a different story although there is never a clear comparison possible. (e.g., engine failures plagued McLaren last year, but not this year.) And a race-by-race, side-by-side comparison this year doesn't tell much of a story, either. You would only get a fairly true comparison if they were on the same team.

I don't have anything against DC (in fact I kinda like him), but I've always liked JPM much better and believe he's a better driver. And I think his game will improve from here on out--he hasn't hit his stride at McLaren yet, IMO, whereas Kimi clearly has. I just wish he were still driving a BMW-powered machine. I also think JPM, almost regardless of what he's driving, can stay in the hunt. No chance of a championship this year, of course, but likely in the future.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

Plaz said:


> I'm driving up tomorrow. :thumbup:


 From Churzee... :eeps: make sure you show your passport at the French border...


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Both Kimi and JPM looked fast in practice today. Perhaps Kimi will at least have someone to race this weekend. I would be great fun to watch those two go head to head.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> Both Kimi and JPM looked fast in practice today. Perhaps Kimi will at least have someone to race this weekend. I would be great fun to watch those two go head to head.


Looks like a long day for the BMW Williams crew tomorrow.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

berford said:


> Looks like a long day for the BMW Williams crew tomorrow.


Where did their pace go? :dunno:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> Where did their pace go? :dunno:


Strange, isn't it. Been searching for some explanation...in vain. Anyone? Anyone?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Yep yep.


:thumbup: 


.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Pretty good race, way to go Kimi. Ruebens deserves a special mention, I mean he must have been flying to be 3rd after starting in the pit lane. :wow:

Did not hear what the deal was with JPM, though, was he supposed to park it in the pit lane while the field went by? :dunno:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

That was a really lame coverage on CBS :thumbdwn: 
They did better in previous races but this time some of the comments were repeated like the bit on steering wheel, etc. It's insulting that they treat their viewers like dummies, enough with all these infantile explanations and comparisons to Nascar :tsk: 

Where the hell were interviews and why was the race tape delayed?!


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> That was a really lame coverage on CBS :thumbdwn:
> They did better in previous races but this time some of the comments were repeated like the bit on steering wheel, etc. It's insulting that they treat their viewers like dummies, enough with all these infantile explanations and comparisons to Nascar :tsk:
> 
> Where the hell were interviews and why was the race tape delayed?!


Lame is right. Why did Nick retire. They just showed him walking down pit lane, with no mention of the problem. And what's with the red light for JPM. Why in the world would you watch for a red light on exiting the pits. How many places should someone lose by being unlucky enough to pit late under the SC. It seems they don't want JPM to finish a race without disqualification in North America. That's three in a row.

The only interesting thing about the coverage was their bleeping the word "screwed." That's comical. Oh, I forgot about their informing us that the drivers "have paddles. The one on the left is for moving down the gears. The one on the right is for..." Oh, well, you get the picture.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> That was a really lame coverage on CBS :thumbdwn:


:stupid:


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

berford said:


> The only interesting thing about the coverage was their bleeping the word "screwed." That's comical. Oh, I forgot about their informing us that the drivers "have paddles. The one on the left is for moving down the gears. The one on the right is for..." Oh, well, you get the picture.


Is *that* what that was... :rofl: I couldn't work out what word he used...


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## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

berford said:


> Why did Nick retire. They just showed him walking down pit lane, with no mention of the problem.


they showed his engine blowing up on the fron straight, maybe you were in the bathroom?



berford said:


> And what's with the red light for JPM. Why in the world would you watch for a red light on exiting the pits. How many places should someone lose by being unlucky enough to pit late under the SC. It seems they don't want JPM to finish a race without disqualification in North America. That's three in a row.


yeah...who need rules? definitively should allow JPM to run all the safety lights he wants....



berford said:


> The only interesting thing about the coverage was their bleeping the word "screwed." That's comical.


That was funny, what's funnier is that later in the broadcast they did NOT bleep it...


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

AC said:


> they showed his engine blowing up on the fron straight, maybe you were in the bathroom?


Actually, I was on the golf course, but I missed it on the recording. I'll have to rewind Tivo to that spot.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Very nice coverage on South Africa's SS2 channel. They even had team radio comms at times.

Funny was Alonso calling in that his car just stopped handling, he had no idea why it wasn't working. Of ocurse hearing this while watching the reply of hitting the wall made it even better.

Cool was Heidfeld getting a call from his engineer that his engine was getting warm and he should move over on straights to get cooler air.

I really liked Trulli's brake disc exploding. Just glad it was somewhere reasonably safe when it happened.

Pit lane lights have been in F1 for YEARS. Why would he NOT look at the lights? And if the light is red, yes, he sits and waits.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I'm beginning to wonder if BMW sees this as a throw away / restructuring year. Two drivers who've never won, an engine rule change that caused them to scrap their new engine concept to go with a hybrid of last year's P84 engine and the scrapped P85, a restart for Williams moving their concept back to where they were in 2003. Down on power is relative, but they don't seem to have the power of the Renault or the Honda. It's very hard to tell of course, even when you are there. In Canada, they were said to be running very low downforce to maximize speed, but they weren't the fastest in a straight line. They are also supposed to still be making lots of changes to the aero on the car. Their qualifying was dismal at Canada though, so they really never had a chance. Webber seems happy with the result, but he made two mistakes again that cost him. His pit stop got him ahead of the Heidfeld, but he threw it away trying to pass Massa. Then during the safety car he was in a good position only to carry too much speed through turn two going onto the grass to fall back behind the same group again. It was right in front of us. It may be that they don't have the FW27 sorted out for the low downforce configuration, we'll see. Indy goes back to grip, since the oval portion really isn't the focus of the setup.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Very nice coverage on South Africa's SS2 channel. They even had team radio comms at times.
> 
> Funny was Alonso calling in that his car just stopped handling, he had no idea why it wasn't working. Of ocurse hearing this while watching the reply of hitting the wall made it even better.
> 
> ...


Sounds like enormously better coverage than CBS and possibly even Speed.

Yes, there are lights, but do you know of anyone ever being stopped by them under similar conditions? BTW, is it more dangerous returning to the track at low speeds (dictated by the SC) than at normal high speeds? Just because there is traffic doesn't mean the conditions are unsafe or even less safe than usual.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> Very nice coverage on South Africa's SS2 channel. They even had team radio comms at times.


I watched the last three races on RTL (Germany) while on Crete - the coverage is much better than what we get here in Finland. Granted, I don't speak German, but it was good nonetheless!

It took me a day to get over the last lap of the European Grand Prix ... 

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> It took me a day to get over the last lap of the European Grand Prix ...
> 
> .


At least a day, I would think.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> At least a day, I would think.


I really was pissed off!

The Canadian Grand Prix helped me feel a lot better, although I did think that once again, the SC would help Spoonface win a race. Thankfully, my pessimism was proven wrong. 

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I really was pissed off!
> 
> The Canadian Grand Prix helped me feel a lot better, although I did think that once again, the SC would help Spoonface win a race. Thankfully, my pessimism was proven wrong.
> 
> .


Well, you weren't far off the mark, though. I was thinking along the same lines, but I wouldn't have said that here since it would violate my New Years resolution not to alienate certain Germans.


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

berford said:


> Yes, there are lights, but do you know of anyone ever being stopped by them under similar conditions? BTW, is it more dangerous returning to the track at low speeds (dictated by the SC) than at normal high speeds? Just because there is traffic doesn't mean the conditions are unsafe or even less safe than usual.


The red light was sure a mystery. However, I backed up my recording to the point where JPM was leaving the pits, and it sure looked to me like he SLOWED a bit before crossing the pit exit line. I suspect he saw the red light and made a decision to ignore it. Anyone seen an interview with him about the incident?

EDIT: Yep, this story confirms it. He basically ignored the red light.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> The red light was sure a mystery. However, I backed up my recording to the point where JPM was leaving the pits, and it sure looked to me like he SLOWED a bit before crossing the pit exit line. I suspect he saw the red light and made a decision to ignore it. Anyone seen an interview with him about the incident?
> 
> EDIT: Yep, this story confirms it. He basically ignored the red light.


Yeah, if the quote is accurate. I've seen others, though, where he seemed to waffle on whether he saw the red.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I think that it is time for Berford to start the US Grand Prix SPOILER! :bigpimp: 


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I think that it is time for Berford to start the US Grand Prix SPOILER! :bigpimp:
> 
> .


Okey, dokey. BTW, there's nothing to prevent you (or anyone else) from taking the initiative. I'm just sayin'


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Okey, dokey. BTW, there's nothing to prevent you (or anyone else) from taking the initiative. I'm just sayin'


You are better at it than anyone else here! :thumbup: 

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