# Diesel Chips



## danawins (Mar 7, 2010)

Anyone done any research into chip sets for the 335d? I knows there are several available in Europe, buy haven't yet found any for the US.


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## Marine5302 (Sep 13, 2009)

VAC Motors in Philly.

http://store.nexternal.com/vacmotor...iesel-control-module-335d--x5d-etc-p2081.aspx


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/box-details.php?id=10
http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/box-details.php?id=1


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## kwylie (Feb 15, 2010)

Are they kidding? Did I read that correctly? 340HP and 500+ Torque. That is more than my 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel well close.

What is the exchange rate? Will it work in the US vehicles? I should probably do more homework on it. 

You have to get the M package now! :thumbup:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I don't have a "chip" but I have an AC Schnitzer Diesel Power Upgrade. It actually came with the car... Otherwise, it is a 2200 Euro extra from ACS.

According to the TÜV paper work I have, it was installed by a BMW dealership's service department in München, in 2007.

265hp and 600Nm of torque. When the turbo is spooled up in 3rd, and you get on it, you can really get a rush!

Top speed so far was 253km/h (about 150 MPH), and that was with the E61 stuffed full of luggage, souvenirs, cases of beer, and other extra weight.


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## sunny_j (Sep 24, 2006)

when i was looking to tune my e320 everyone manufacture told me they dont make anything for cars that use urea. i lucked because my 09 bluetec doesnt use urea so i got the kleemann kd



Patrick said:


> I don't have a "chip" but I have an AC Schnitzer Diesel Power Upgrade. It actually came with the car... Otherwise, it is a 2200 Euro extra from ACS.
> 
> According to the TÜV paper work I have, it was installed by a BMW dealership's service department in München, in 2007.
> 
> ...


patrick, what is the stock power numbers for the 530?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

sunny_j said:


> patrick, what is the stock power numbers for the 530?


Pre-LCI is 217hp and 500Nm of torque.

I don't exactly recall what the LCI version is/was... 230hp or something.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Updating this with some information that I put in the General 335d thread:

Terry @ BMS (same guy that does the JB+ and JB3 tunes) has a working prototype for the 335d/x5 35d. I went and had him install it yesterday, and I've been driving around on it for about 200 miles so far. There is a *distinct* difference in feel, and it's easily adjustable. I'm not going to show you what it looks like, because I don't have permission yet, and I'm not sure what Terry does and doesn't want you to see. 

I currently have it at at around 75-80%, and man, it's FUN. We'll be going to dyno the car later this week, once the car's settled into the tune, and I'm eager to see the results. Terry did quote me some general numbers about how much more torque/HP the tune provides at 100%, but again, I'd rather not toss those out just yet.

Also, my trip there was 120 miles, and I averaged about 40MPG, give or take. The trip back, post tune, was pretty much identical, as I'm sure that's going to be a question asked. I can't make real determinations until I start taking it back and forth to work a couple of times, but I wanted to give some first impressions.

For those of you interested, these are huge strides in the right direction, and waiting for Terry to do his tune vs. VAC or DTUK's (no offense to either company, mind you) I feel is well worth it.

Count on me posting a more full evaluation once the dynos are done, I can post stock vs. tuned #'s, and I have Terry's permission to put out specifics....this should all be later this week.


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## Marine5302 (Sep 13, 2009)

I understand you can't give out specifics but don't leave us hangin' on only "I currently have it at at around 75-80%, and man, it's FUN." Can you at least tell us where in the rpm range you're, without a dyno check, feeling the change? :dunno:


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Specifics will come later in the week, provided Terry says it's ok

EDIT: He posted some tidbits here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5152386&postcount=2451

That being said, gleen what you can from this:


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## kwylie (Feb 15, 2010)

Thanks for the update. 

Please keep us in the loop.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Reposting from 335d thread, for good measure:

So, what's sure to be a point of interest, I've been paying attention to my gas mileage to see if things have changed with Terry's prototype.

On my way to work today, I decided to make sure I paid attention to my gas mileage, post tune, just to see if there were any adverse affects. I was mildly surprised at what I saw by the time I got to work. I'm going to keep track throughout the tank, and see if this stays consistent. Note that this morning's drive was no different than any other morning's, and I didn't drive any differently than I normally would, and I have never, since having this car, seen these types of results.

I'm obviously taking things with a grain of salt...but the drive back on Saturday showed similar results, and even after driving it pretty hard yesterday, the tank still showed 26.3MPG on fill-up this morning (my video a few posts up is a small example of what I was doing yesterday).

Quick video for good measure (slightly earlier than when the pics were taken)


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Stugots said:


> Reposting from 335d thread, for good measure:
> 
> So, what's sure to be a point of interest, I've been paying attention to my gas mileage to see if things have changed with Terry's prototype.
> 
> ...


C'mon STUG, you were either going down hill at 80mph or tailgating an 18 wheeler!:yikes:


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Honest to God I wasn't...rofl!

On the way home, the # dropped, though.

I'm now looking at about 46MPG and 700 miles to this tank.

Day 1 complete.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Day 2


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## thesmaz (Mar 25, 2005)

Looks very promising!


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## mecodoug (Nov 30, 2007)

I advise against believing what the computer tells you for MPG. My E90 average mpg display often overstates my actual mpg significantly.

That said, how can a tune simultaneously increase power and economy? I have to be skeptical here - there are only so many btu's per gallon and they have to go somewhere. Either some of that energy was not getting burned in the stock setup (doubtful) or somehow the tune converts more heat to motive energy (also doubtful.) 

I would buy that it is possible to get the same mileage with a tune assuming identical driving (which is probably hard to do when you have all that power available.)

51 days to ED 335d - I can't wait!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

My computer has been damn near nuts on for all 20 or so fillups I have done. Others have said similar results, I'd trust it. As far as gaining economy, I have seen that with diesel trucks before so long as the person is not using the new found power all the time.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> My computer has been damn near nuts on for all 20 or so fillups I have done. Others have said similar results, I'd trust it. As far as gaining economy, I have seen that with diesel trucks before so long as the person is not using the new found power all the time.


My computer has been within a 0.5mpg + or - of my hand calcs, so I trust it.

Stugs, I am having a hard time to believe 46mpg for an extended period of time. That will be a feat for sure (or perhaps that is no feet!) 

Actually, you can indeed tune an engine to improve mpg, but usually at some other cost, like emissions. More than likely BMW has adjusted this rig to meet emissions as a priority over mpg, although the two can and do go hand in hand. If you increase combustion temp you increase NOx, so they usually play with the the valve timing and overlap, plus start/stop of fuel injection. Then you play with Charge Air pressure from the turbo. Plenty to tweek with if you know what you are doing.:thumbup:

I'll give any tune consideration if price and results are right. I just don't want to be the guinea pig.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Wonder if DEF consumption increases by a noticeable amount with such a tune and not a constant heavy foot.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

mecodoug said:


> I advise against believing what the computer tells you for MPG. My E90 average mpg display often overstates my actual mpg significantly.
> 
> That said, how can a tune simultaneously increase power and economy? I have to be skeptical here - there are only so many btu's per gallon and they have to go somewhere. Either some of that energy was not getting burned in the stock setup (doubtful) or somehow the tune converts more heat to motive energy (also doubtful.)
> 
> ...


What doesn't lie is the gas gauge....ignore the figures if you want, but the gas gauge won't lie, nor will my fill-up when the time comes. This is the same drive I've been taking since I've had the car, and I have never, ever seen these types of results, and only one thing has changed since I've been getting them. Hell, feel free to see every single one of my fill-ups:

http://www.fuelly.com/driver/ronin/335d



Snipe656 said:


> My computer has been damn near nuts on for all 20 or so fillups I have done. Others have said similar results, I'd trust it. As far as gaining economy, I have seen that with diesel trucks before so long as the person is not using the new found power all the time.


As has mine....you can ignore the MPG, but the average speed is pretty spot on (takes into account *any* time that the engine is running, regardless of what you're doing).



Flyingman said:


> My computer has been within a 0.5mpg + or - of my hand calcs, so I trust it.
> 
> Stugs, I am having a hard time to believe 46mpg for an extended period of time. That will be a feat for sure (or perhaps that is no feet!)
> 
> ...


I'm doing that for you, sir.  I'm tracking MPG every day, without fail, regardless of results. My point isn't to brag or exaggerate, but to provide information...that's it. Like last night, the drive home was a bit rougher on the car (more uphill) and I ended up at ~650 miles estimated for the whole tank by the time I got home.



Snipe656 said:


> Wonder if DEF consumption increases by a noticeable amount with such a tune and not a constant heavy foot.


I honestly can't answer that question, obviously, since there's no DEF gauge to determine how much is left. I do know that I'm now at almost 12,500, and still no 1k warning.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Guess it would boil down to what technical reason is behind the increase in economy. If it is something that results in more Nox then probably means more def consumption but then who knows if it would be a noticeable amount. My fear with these types of mods is long term reliability of the vehicle. I was going to do a tune on my truck years ago because of the mpg gain and figured out how many miles I'd have to drive for it to pay off. Never did it because saw too many people with tunes and all sorts of problems like injectors and head gaskets but that motor does not have a great reputation so who knows what the real reasons were. 

Would be interesting to see egt readings with and with out the tune. I know with a lot of trucks the tuners alwas recommend exhaust work as well. But not like I know anything about tuning to know what i was looking at.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

Sorry, but I don't know why so many of you guys don't trust your car. I have a 1999 528. The range and mpg indicators have been consistently reliable and the oil change lights have never faiiled to provide good and useful information about when to bring it in for service. I've been waiting for a reasonably-priced diesel and do not expect it to be any less trustworthy than my 528. Wish you all well. God bless BMW.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

I can believe the gains in mpg if the exhaust became less restrictive which it looks like it might have with the SES light on. Please tell us the exhaust was untouched!?! I would like more power, but I really don't want to mess with any hardware in the car.
My friend has a Dodge cummins that had a DPF, etc but no urea injection. He removed the DPF and basically all of the factory exhaust behind the turbo and also plugged the EGR so its not routing all the dirty diesel soot into the intake. He also added an intake along with a power programmer that yielded a LOT more power AND better gas mileage. He yields about 20-22mpg on the highway now where before it was in the 16-18 range. Quarter mile went from 16.0 to 14.3
Makes me wonder what the d can do with the same level of modifications, I bet 12s easily with even better mileage, but at the expense of a dirty cloud of diesel smoke following you.

Definitely keep us posted on any developments that you can share!


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Exhaust wasn't touched...SES light has been off and on since I had the car (more recently, but not as a a result of the tune).

Car's going in for maintenance pretty soon (late this week/early next week), so I'm going to have them look into it then.

As far as I know, there's nobody in the states that has an exhaust for the d, and I imagine it might take some time, with the way the exhaust is configured in comparison to the gas variant 335i (and the EU variant 335d).

Here are today's results:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I came across an ad online a few weeks back that claimed to be selling a catback for these cars. It though read as if the same setup was being sold for the 335d and 335i so I figured it really did not work on the diesels. It also was a ton of money, I think a few thousand dollars. Would be nice to see exhausts for these but given how few cars are imported I have my doubts one will be made or if one is then have my fears it will be very expensive to justify making something that not many units would be sold.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

I couldn't resist any longer....at lunch, I took the car and drove to the beach, and drove it hard getting there...so tomorrow's mileage #'s are going to be off...just felt the need to explain why.

Token pictures of the beach:


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## DC335i (Nov 2, 2006)

Loving this and looking forward to the ongoing saga. Any concerns that it could be throwing a code - since the SES light was already coming on, I assume you wouldn't be able to tell if anything new was going on without a proper diagnostic?

PS - I just went over to check the link to Terry's post, and had no idea the 335d thread was still going strong. Ever since the Diesel form was opened I haven't even bothered to check the other forums . . .


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

You're correct about the proper diagnostic, which I want to get done soon...getting really annoyed at seeing the SES, and I'm concerned it has to do with the DEF, which we know can be a saga in itself.

Here's to hoping it's just a sensor or something simple.

As an FYI, I'm going to the dyno with Terry tomorrow morning.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Stugots said:


> You're correct about the proper diagnostic, which I want to get done soon...getting really annoyed at seeing the SES, and I'm concerned it has to do with the DEF, which we know can be a saga in itself.
> 
> Here's to hoping it's just a sensor or something simple.
> 
> As an FYI, I'm going to the dyno with Terry tomorrow morning.


How are you going to hide the tune?


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Remove and clear codes. Removal takes maybe 5 minutes..if that. Very simple to take off/put on.


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## Neutrinolad (Jun 23, 2009)

mecodoug said:


> I advise against believing what the computer tells you for MPG. My E90 average mpg display often overstates my actual mpg significantly.
> 
> That said, how can a tune simultaneously increase power and economy? I have to be skeptical here - there are only so many btu's per gallon and they have to go somewhere. Either some of that energy was not getting burned in the stock setup (doubtful) or somehow the tune converts more heat to motive energy (also doubtful.)
> 
> ...


Isn't the mpg that is displayed only for the last 18 miles? So, if you hit a long downgrade big numbers on the display are definitely possible.


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## DC335i (Nov 2, 2006)

Neutrinolad said:


> Isn't the mpg that is displayed only for the last 18 miles? So, if you hit a long downgrade big numbers on the display are definitely possible.


Actually, the mpg continues to calculate from the last time it was reset. After a week of mostly city driving, it takes quite a distance on the highway before it begins to climb. Conversely, after a 1000 mostly highway trip (where we reset the computer prior to the trip), the mpg reading has been slowly counting down over the past 500 miles of mostly city driving. The remaining range reading, on the other hand, updates very quickly when we switch from highway to city and vice versa.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

The #'s are here (partially). We were able to get HP #'s, but no torque #'s (yet). I'm searching for a local dyno shop that will be able to get the torque #'s, but I'm pretty confident that based on the deltas of the HP #'s, the torque #'s are somewhere in the low 500's.

Also attached is my only dirty run...I *know* both I and the car can do better.


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## Marine5302 (Sep 13, 2009)

308 at the wheel and a possible 500 plus for the torque. Wow! Corrrect me if I'm wrong but with only some minor tweeking you should have a high 4's (0-60) time though 5.27 ain't bad.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Marine5302 said:


> 308 at the wheel and a possible 500 plus for the torque. Wow! Corrrect me if I'm wrong but with only some minor tweeking you should have a high 4's (0-60) time though 5.27 ain't bad.


I think the minor tweaking = me getting used to doing launches, and perhaps something other than the RFTs on the car (although, I'm pretty confident I can break the 5s barrier on my own).


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

Those are some nice hp numbers! What gear was this done in, 4th? 
What's the reason for the missing torque numbers?


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Yup, 4th gear, and they weren't able to pull tach #'s from the OBDII (thanks diesel). Trying to find a local dyno that can, so we see where those are at.


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## csecard (Oct 17, 2009)

Stugots said:


> The #'s are here (partially). We were able to get HP #'s, but no torque #'s (yet). I'm searching for a local dyno shop that will be able to get the torque #'s, but I'm pretty confident that based on the deltas of the HP #'s, the torque #'s are somewhere in the low 500's.
> 
> Also attached is my only dirty run...I *know* both I and the car can do better.


Sign me up


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

csecard said:


> Sign me up


What's the price going to be? Recall the VAC tune was in the $700-800 range with similar results, around a 10-15% increase in HP and Torque.

Do tell!


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

GB said:


> Something is not right with your BT install/config. Stugots has a good youtube video on the install.
> 
> And if you like it at 60%, wait until you bump it up to 100% !!
> 
> -Graham


I've seen youtube video on how to plug BT in, but not on install..... are you referring to software?
Thanks


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

I was referring to the cable connection video, but if your diagnostic info is listed in German it sounds like the install didn't go correctly. I downloaded the BT software and drives from http://www.bavariantechnic.com/download.aspx ...or just send Terry an email--he'll reply to you ASAP.

Graham


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

I removed BT software and installed it again, including USB drivers, I'll see....


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Just installed JBD. So far, so good. Feels like I've got a V8 under the hood.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

TXPearl said:


> Just installed JBD. So far, so good. Feels like I've got a V8 under the hood.


what setting do you have it at?


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

I had it running on the default till today, bumped my setting extra click.... no problems.... two more clicks to 100%
Not sure how it corresponds to the gains, but I have to be very gentle with acceleration at the turns since traction kicks in....


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

tlak77 said:


> I had it running on the default till today, bumped my setting extra click.... no problems.... two more clicks to 100%
> Not sure how it corresponds to the gains, but I have to be very gentle with acceleration at the turns since traction kicks in....


I drove a car with one, first on the default then second on the next line past that, not sure how that works out percentage wise. Did not notice that with turning. I actually did not notice massive differences in power but I do not tend to ever really use the stock amount of power so I am sure that is why my observation was poor. Now it did seem to have a good bit of power from a 70 or so punch when on the freeway to pass someone.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> what setting do you have it at?


Factory default setting.....for now.

I'll try this for a few days and then rachet it up some.


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Anyone else with the JBD? It's no longer beta, so we can discuss it.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

Is there more detail on what exactly the module does?
Does it just alter the boost and fuel pressure read by the ecu?

Anyone run into any problems with this yet?

Anyone running 100% all the time?
I'm assuming the codes can just be cleared with the bt scanner, no other effects?


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

HIREN said:


> Is there more detail on what exactly the module does?
> Does it just alter the boost and fuel pressure read by the ecu?
> 
> Anyone run into any problems with this yet?
> ...


 I've been running mine at 100% since day one, which is about 1500 miles. NO CEL but I ordered the BT scanner to see if there is any hidden tuner codes.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

Anyone get it dynoed with tq figures yet?
Anyone take it to the quarter mile track yet?


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

One the other forum I think Terry said it is hit or miss as to whether a code is thrown at 100% or not.


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## 540gone (Feb 23, 2006)

*Got it, love it.....*

It is without a doubt the easiest, cheapest mod I've ever done (to LOTS of cars). Makes a very noticable difference vs. stock. I bought the BT cable as well as the "box", but haven't ramped up the setting above the 60% default setting and have no codes whatsoever. Terry indicates that a fair number of the beta installs throw a code at higher (90-100%) settings, and recommends leaving it at 60 or 70% if you don't want to have to mess with clearing codes.

This is the way the damn thing should have performed from the factory.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

HIREN said:


> Anyone get it dynoed with tq figures yet?
> Anyone take it to the quarter mile track yet?


I'm setting up a dyno for hopefully next weekend.

My best 1/8th on RFTs on asphalt was 8.8 @ 81MPH.



> _1/8 MILE VS. 1/4 MILE_
> 
> After monitoring tons of good passes, patterns emerge. Typically, the mph at the quarter is around 1.26 times of the mph at the eighth, and the time at the quarter is around 1.55 times the time at the eighth. You can use these values if you only have a 1/8 mile track and get a real good idea of the theoretical 1/4 mile.


By that math, that puts the car at 13.64 @ 102.

Personally, I'm positive the car can break into the 12's, with the right conditions (good track, non RFT tires). I'm looking for these conditions and this track to get a real #.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

I ran a 14.0 at 100 stock when I had around 2000mi on the odo. 
At 100% with a claimed 60hp and 100tq gain hopefully the car can pick up an extra 5-6mph in the trap if not more.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

HIREN said:


> I ran a 14.0 at 100 stock when I had around 2000mi on the odo.
> At 100% with a claimed 60hp and 100tq gain hopefully the car can pick up an extra 5-6mph in the trap if not more.


Conditions play a very important role in how your runs turn out.

Not to mention, the HP 'claims' are accurate, since it's my car that was run on the dyno, both stock and at @ 100% (accurate for the conditions, anyway).


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Stugots said:


> I'm setting up a dyno for hopefully next weekend.


That's great news - will you look to do multiple passes to quantify the different settings on the JBD, or just baseline the car at its current state? While I'm asking, have you had any success getting other tuners to allow you to sample their offerings?


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

540gone said:


> It is without a doubt the easiest, cheapest mod I've ever done (to LOTS of cars). Makes a very noticable difference vs. stock. I bought the BT cable as well as the "box", but haven't ramped up the setting above the 60% default setting and have no codes whatsoever. Terry indicates that a fair number of the beta installs throw a code at higher (90-100%) settings, and recommends leaving it at 60 or 70% if you don't want to have to mess with clearing codes.
> 
> This is the way the damn thing should have performed from the factory.


 I installed the BT scanner today and still no codes at 100%. I'd listen to Terry but just passing on my experience.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

62Lincoln said:


> That's great news - will you look to do multiple passes to quantify the different settings on the JBD, or just baseline the car at its current state? While I'm asking, have you had any success getting other tuners to allow you to sample their offerings?


My car has 2 tunes right now, with the 3rd module on the way. The rest will likely be ECU flashes, which actually complicates things, but there's at least one I'm waiting for (once the tuner's business has settled down some..due to some unforseen circumstances, his business has recently exploded, so he's been very busy (and by exploded, I mean in a good way).


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Here's my update,,, I just worked an S63 AMG from a stop light last night, had 4 peeps in the car too.


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## DennisCooper! (Jan 29, 2011)

Hi

In response..

Autojeff - every car manufacturer has to 'tune' the cars engine to be a compromise. Many different kinds of buyers will purchase the exact same model of car - in this case a 335d. Some will be Sunday afternoon potterers, some will be daily commuting drivers, some will be weekend spirited drivers, some will be eco-warriors, some will be shopping trolleys, some will be enthusiast owned etc etc. The manufacturers look at the scenarios the car will be used and give an average 'map' so that the car will perform within all those possible scenarios well, and keep the government happy and the environmentalists happy whilst keeping BMW enthusiast orientated drivers happy!! By taking your car and having the 'dialled' out potential performance released, you are taking within a safe level, the bias to however you want it as a driver. Our fuel in the UK costs on average 2.5/3 times as much as yours, Diesels are everywhere here so that people can get better mileage out of a fillup. A 'economy' re-map biases the 'tune' for increased MPG and that's really what kick started the UK's re-map scene for Diesels. Some of us are Diesel drivers but also want to have more torque and BHP increases, so that's what people like me have done. 

There's always this mis-conception that a varied tune will damage the engine and thus people write up 'I will never consider a re-mapped car' - well, if someone didn't tell you a car was re-mapped if you went to potentially buy it, you'd never know! unless you go test driving the same model that isn't re-mapped back to back, even then, you might just think the quicker performing car was just better maintained! The 'trick' is to use high end, reputable tuners who KNOW what they are doing with work like this. The very best of course are tuning houses associated with BMW - so AC Schnitzer, Hartge, Hamann, Alpina etc. They spend hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of dollars researching and refining their testing to produce a 'map' which works. The next level is the highly reputable independent tuning houses who often have staff who have worked in the motorsport industry or within this area of automotive development. I had my diesel re-mapped at 188K miles, after 150K of those were done within 3 years of it's life with a UK police force. My car was re-mapped by the police for it's active service life which I think would have been much much more punishing that any domestically owned car of the same age. I'm now at around 220K miles and the unit and re-map works flawlessly. I took it to a specialist nearby to me who knew what they were doing and it was explained to me what was being done. Other 'back street garages' who just bought some software and a laptop are the ones you need to avoid! some of them told me it's impossible to re-map a car over 100K miles! phone went click to those 'bandits'!

If you take another element of your post, probably 98% of ALL new cars in North America, Europe, UK, middle and far east and Australasia, put down more power than you need on the road. What's the point of a 560 BHP M5? when it's only really going to be used for executives going to business meetings along busy and congested highways at 60 mph? surely, a 65 bhp 1.1 litre petrol VW polo would suit? why have a 335d then?! - that's not really the point though, the point is there's variance in cars because many of us are different and view car ownership differently. The BMW driver is 'typically' more driving experience orientated as such enjoys the feel and joy of driving compared to say a mercedes driver who just want to get from A to B without having so much a hair move out of place. 

With Diesel fuel prices in the USA being ultra cheap, it makes sense that there's less of the population 'worried' about MPG etc, and so decide to leave their cars as standard. Here, those very same types of owners are much more wary of fuel costs and hence drove demand for better economy via re-maps. I still have to see any convincing independent reports that a well re-mapped car, done by a suitable high end knowledgeable expert or tuning house has ANY detrimental effect of the longetivity of a engines life. If there is such evidence, it's most likely negated in real life amongst many private individuals owning that model of car because as you know, not everyone maintains their car to the same or required levels. People's jaw's hit the floor when I show and tell them about my car, which is evidence that the misconceptions and stereotypes are based on flimsy thoughts left over from the days when people used to get things very wrong. I still have the 'swirl flaps' in for instance! whereas many other owners are deathly scared of having them, my engine, well looked after, maintained well is going very strong at 220K miles. 

Snipe - above response also would apply to you too, i understand of course that everyone is different ! many many .. many people in the UK would simply LOVE to be in the position to say 'I'd not even consider a used car' like that, the reality is the total opposite! related to the above, would you consider say a 6 month old Alpina D bi-turbo model ? because that has been extensively modified and has a map on it? how about a 6 month old standard 335d that's been re-mapped by Hartge ? if not, and it has to be brand new, then that's totally cool of course for you, but buyers like me would love to pickup the car you sell on you brought new and let you (and of course other new car only purchasers) take the large depreciation hit !

Funrevn - go with the car that you like, both are going to be fantastic. If it turns out to be a 335d, then yes, get it re-mapped by a reputable specialist and I guarantee you'll be a happy owner!

cssnms - the C63 AMG driver, if actually an enthusiast and knowledgeable about what an AMG is, was probably holding back a little bit to 'give you a scoreboard point' ! on an AMG forum somewhere, said driver is probably posting the same time as this, how he let a 335d take him because he was just relaxing and chilling out on the drive that day and didn't feel like mashing his accelerator pedal ! a 6.3 litre AMG will easily eclipse a 335d!

Cheers, Dennis!


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Dennis,

Your response is a natural one and I can appreciate your doubt. I am a BMW enthusiast and I am knowledgable about what a 335d is and what an AMG is, but that doesn't matter, when a bmw and benz are pitted up against one another at a stop light, no Benz owner will voluntarily concede to a bmw. And your statement without knowing anything about the events that lead up to the race is nothing but speculation. In fact it was an S63 NOT a C63 and trust me when I tell you, we were lined up to race. There are 4 contact patches at the light where we raced from, his in one lane, mine in the other. A JBD 335d runs to 60 in the mid 4 second range and high 12's in the qtr, so the performance between our two cars in nearly spot on, so there is no eclipsing the d in this case. Races are won and lost at the light, I got the jump, he lost by a half a car up to 100mph before I shut it down. He could not gain on my no matter how hard he tried. After I shut it down he went blowing by me accelerating on up to 120 mph - perhaps that made him feel better, but surely doesn't sound like a guy who was chilling letting off so that I could score a point. And trust me, he's not posting anything about this race on benz world or anywhere else!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Dennis, I stand behind my statement that certain cars I'd never buy used. I know people who make a living buying used modified cars and putting them back to stock. They sell the performance parts and tend to get paid to install them. They sell the cars as if they never were abused. Perhaps "living" is the wrong term here since not like it is a formal business. The cars that I'd not ever buy used are nothing to te extent of your example either. More cars the common Joe can go in debt over then go in debt doing mods to them. 

Fastest 1/4 mile times slip from a dragstrip for a 335d with the JBD that I have seen was low 13s. Where has someone posted a slip in the high 12s, I'd like to see the breakdown as well as weather conditions and location.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> Dennis, I stand behind my statement that certain cars I'd never buy used. I know people who make a living buying used modified cars and putting them back to stock. They sell the performance parts and tend to get paid to install them. They sell the cars as if they never were abused. Perhaps "living" is the wrong term here since not like it is a formal business. The cars that I'd not ever buy used are nothing to te extent of your example either. More cars the common Joe can go in debt over then go in debt doing mods to them.
> 
> Fastest 1/4 mile times slip from a dragstrip for a 335d with the JBD that I have seen was low 13s. Where has someone posted a slip in the high 12s, I'd like to see the breakdown as well as weather conditions and location.


I posted the link a while back on this forum with the run which was recorded. Hotrod ran a 12.9 at 108 mph and 4.5 seconds to 60. He was running consistent 13.1 quaters and 4.7 to 60 with stock rims and RFT's.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Having been on the lying end of magazines before, I will trust it once a normal Joe does it and posts up about it. Seems people have gotten close and had they just had better tires then they'd probably gotten it.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> Having been on the lying end of magazines before, I will trust it once a normal Joe does it and posts up about it. Seems people have gotten close and had they just had better tires then they'd probably gotten it.


I will make it a point to head to the track in the fall and will post up times.

One thing for sure, the car hauls ass,,, having fended of an s63 I am every bit of a believer in hotrod's times. Had I not gotten the jump at the start, we would have been neck and neck up to 100 mph.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

I, too, had a run in with an S63 AMG. I was running the JBD at 100% and had no trouble keeping up. If my wife hadn't been in the car, I might have let it play out a little longer. Point is, the above story is very plausible.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

How fast is an S63? I tried looking but crappy reception here and all I found was a statement that it is like an E55 number wise.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> How fast is an S63? I tried looking but crappy reception here and all I found was a statement that it is like an E55 number wise.


2010 model - http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q4/2010_mercedes-benz_s63_amg-first_drive_review

2011 model - http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q1/2011_mercedes-benz_s63_amg-quick_take

I'm guessing I was up against a 2010.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

2011






I suspect I was up against a 2010 too. Didn't notice the biturbo badge, not to mention it runs low 12's lol


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Snipe656 said:


> Having been on the lying end of magazines before, I will trust it once a normal Joe does it and posts up about it. Seems people have gotten close and had they just had better tires then they'd probably gotten it.


Snipe, IIRC you have experience with strip times - here's the screen capture:










Here's the link to his post: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=530786

Would appreciate your take on what he has written.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I will see if I can read through that later today, just got back in town and playing catch up for the past week. At first glance though that is a mph close to what I used to get running high 10s but I do not recall the breakdown of those runs and pretty sure I had much better 60' times since was more in a car geared towards drag racing. That is an impressive time for a street car though, guessing that is a 335i and not a 335d?

As far as the S63, those sound pretty quick for a giant land yacht. I watched a comparisons with one, pretty sure it was turbocharged, on Top Gear once and it appeared to be a very impressive machine.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Snipe656 said:


> I will see if I can read through that later today, just got back in town and playing catch up for the past week. At first glance though that is a mph close to what I used to get running high 10s but I do not recall the breakdown of those runs and pretty sure I had much better 60' times since was more in a car geared towards drag racing. That is an impressive time for a street car though, guessing that is a 335i and not a 335d?
> 
> As far as the S63, those sound pretty quick for a giant land yacht. I watched a comparisons with one, pretty sure it was turbocharged, on Top Gear once and it appeared to be a very impressive machine.


I *think* it was 335i.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

It's HotRod's 335i which has all of the performance bells and whistles. He is hitting 60 in 3.3 seconds on his vbox which he claims is rountinely in line with track slips.

Full story and video here...

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12765


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

cssnms said:


> It's HotRod's 335i which has all of the performance bells and whistles. He is hitting 60 in 3.3 seconds on his vbox which he claims is rountinely in line with track slips.
> 
> Full story and video here...
> 
> http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12765


Definitely impressive car. I did not watch the videos so just assuming it is not dealing with massive amounts of wheel spin at the track. Seems like if he could find the trick to making that platform 60' then he has a solid 10 second car. For me the mph in the 1/4 for street car always matter most. ET's are great for bragging purposes in most circles of people but the mph typically is what matters most when playing on the street.

Maybe I misread but seemed like his 60' times were not really better at the track v. his vbox. I find that strange since a track is prepped and tends to have a good bit of rubber on it too. But I never trust any of those in car measuring devices plus maybe the videos would have made things clearer to me had I been able to watch.

Sent from my iPad Nano


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

question about the JB tune. on their web site, it says that running at 100% will throw codes at which point you will need to clear them and turn it down. This kind of makes the higher setting useless since even the manufacturer says not to use 100%.

what's the general thinking on this? are peeps still running at full? are the codes prevalent?


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## julesandtrish (Mar 2, 2006)

I've been running at 100% for more than 8 months now and no codes at all. 35,000 + miles so far on my baby. The D is a beast.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Arkady said:


> question about the JB tune. on their web site, it says that running at 100% will throw codes at which point you will need to clear them and turn it down. This kind of makes the higher setting useless since even the manufacturer says not to use 100%.
> 
> what's the general thinking on this? are peeps still running at full? are the codes prevalent?


If you read the rest of the thread, others have pointed out that if you start at 100% it will throw CEL. However, if you start at 60% and gradually work up towards 100% it is usually fine.

I pick up my d in three weeks. I plan on waiting a year or so to see to let more real world experience with the JBD accumulate.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have read of a few people who got it and started at 100% and had zero codes. Seems rather hit or miss but almost like the people who do get codes are in the minority. Do shadow codes trigger the SES light? For some reason I am thinking I read they do not.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

julesandtrish said:


> I've been running at 100% for more than 8 months now and no codes at all. 35,000 + miles so far on my baby. The D is a beast.


Do you remove it when taking car to dealer for service?

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

rmorin49 said:


> Do you remove it when taking car to dealer for service?


I run it at 100%. Before my last service appt. I removed the JBD. I never purchased the BT tool so I can't say for sure if it was throwing any codes or not. If it was, they were not cleared before my service visit. I never saw a SES light. The service department never mentioned anything when I picked up the car.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

TXPearl said:


> I run it at 100%. Before my last service appt. I removed the JBD. I never purchased the BT tool so I can't say for sure if it was throwing any codes or not. If it was, they were not cleared before my service visit. I never saw a SES light. The service department never mentioned anything when I picked up the car.


This is good news. I am rethinking my decision to stay stock. Can an old fart with hand tools install the device? How about removal? Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

rmorin49 said:


> This is good news. I am rethinking my decision to stay stock. Can an old fart with hand tools install the device? How about removal?


Pretty simple install - you'll need a hex wrench for the bolts holding the engine cover and maybe a flathead screwdriver to pry apart the wiring harness clips. I also used one pf those plastic pull ties to secure the box to a cross arm. Burger Tuning's provided instructions are reasonably clear.

Removal is just as easy. Probably a ten minute task.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

It's probably a 10-minute job the first time, and 5-min tops thereafter. 


-Graham


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

The new version also appears to throw SES lights at 100%, don't ask me how I know.  Trying to figure out what the deal is now. The BT tool/software doesn't appear to have the 335d or MY's 2010-2011 as an option which is proving to make it difficult to check engine codes. If anyone else figured it out shoot me a PM.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Got the BT tool/software figuresdout, was able to scan for codes. SES light/limp mode was triggered by a low rail pressure fault code, which makes sense since all the JBD does is trick the ecu into thinking there is low fuel pressure so it delivers more fuel. Code cleared and no more SES light and it stayed off after the test drive.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

well, I'm starting to lean towards the VAC tune. Although it's more expensive at least it doesn't seem to be throwing any codes. I'm just not sure about buying a product were the only solution from the manufacturer is to lower the tune setting (which defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place).


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Arkady said:


> well, I'm starting to lean towards the VAC tune. Although it's more expensive at least it doesn't seem to be throwing any codes. I'm just not sure about buying a product were the only solution from the manufacturer is to lower the tune setting (which defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place).


The JBD will not throw codes at the default setting about 60%. It also puts out more power than the VAC at the default setting. Even running 80% the JBD will not throw codes, it's only at the MAX setting will it potentially throw codes. In either case it's HIGHLY advisable that you buy at BT cable so you check for shadow codes and clear before service.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

There is a shop in North Atlanta that is offering performance tunes from one of the German tuners. This is a full reprogram of the ECU, so it's not a trick the computer approach. Here's a link to their site: http://www.performingimports.com/performance-tuning.php


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

62Lincoln said:


> There is a shop in North Atlanta that is offering performance tunes from one of the German tuners. This is a full reprogram of the ECU, so it's not a trick the computer approach. Here's a link to their site: http://www.performingimports.com/performance-tuning.php


Only downside, it can't be removed before service.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Arkady said:


> well, I'm starting to lean towards the VAC tune. Although it's more expensive at least it doesn't seem to be throwing any codes. I'm just not sure about buying a product were the only solution from the manufacturer is to lower the tune setting (which defeats the purpose of buying it in the first place).





cssnms said:


> The JBD will not throw codes at the default setting about 60%. It also puts out more power than the VAC at the default setting. Even running 80% the JBD will not throw codes, it's only at the MAX setting will it potentially throw codes. In either case it's HIGHLY advisable that you buy at BT cable so you check for shadow codes and clear before service.


Personally the only reason I could see to go with the VAC is if you want a power increase and fuel economy increase. They claim both on their website and I know Ronin on here confirmed it when he tested one, I think another user who owns one confirmed it as well. Outside that reason it would seem like just go with the JBD and don't increase the setting and you spend less initial money, get some more power over the VAC and are at no risk of throwing codes. My opinion though is based on what owners of both have said on here and what little Ronin said when he had tested both on his car. Really not much information out there on either to form a strong opinion on them. Sure lots of butt dyno opinions of the JBD and can guess chances of an SES light from those owners but with the VAC so few own them on here and have talked of their experience that hard to judge it. But it all boils down to what the goal is, if ultimate power numbers is the goal then the VAC is not the solution to those. I do recall reading on here that VAC is considering adding an adjustment mechanism to their solution.



62Lincoln said:


> There is a shop in North Atlanta that is offering performance tunes from one of the German tuners. This is a full reprogram of the ECU, so it's not a trick the computer approach. Here's a link to their site: http://www.performingimports.com/performance-tuning.php





cssnms said:


> Only downside, it can't be removed before service.


Outside of that obvious downside to need to send the ECU back for a stock reflash or own another ECU for service dates it seems like from reading very little on other forums that the ECU reflash does not net near the gains as the box methods. Maybe I am wrong on that one, can't say I read a ton on it but recall some thread showing links to both and the power gains I thought were much better for the boxes. I personally like the reflash idea for tunes but only when it comes with a tool for me to load the flash and pull it off, much like how tunes for domestics work.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

I hear what you're saying. It just feels weird to me buying a tune that if it throws codes the only solution is to lower the setting.

I know this is a long shot, but I remember seeing a comparison dyno between JB and VAC. Does anyone have a link to it? I looked at it briefly but I don't remember where it was. Now, I can't find the freaking chart... lol


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Arkady said:


> I hear what you're saying. It just feels weird to me buying a tune that if it throws codes the only solution is to lower the setting.
> 
> I know this is a long shot, but I remember seeing a comparison dyno between JB and VAC. Does anyone have a link to it? I looked at it briefly but I don't remember where it was. Now, I can't find the freaking chart... lol


You only risk the chance of throwing a code if you buy the JB and you turn it's setting up. As it ships to you if you install it and leave it alone then you should never see a code. Or I should say your chances of seeing a code should be equal to the chances with the VAC and thus far that has equated to never from all the folks who talk about it on here. The JB is simply giving the power hungry people the option to turn things up with the known risk they might see an annoying SES light on their dashboard if they do that.

I don't recall ever seeing the comparison dyno between the two and would not mind seeing it if you find it. I know each place has some dyno charts or numbers online to look at.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Arkady said:


> I hear what you're saying. It just feels weird to me buying a tune that if it throws codes the only solution is to lower the setting.
> 
> I know this is a long shot, but I remember seeing a comparison dyno between JB and VAC. Does anyone have a link to it? I looked at it briefly but I don't remember where it was. Now, I can't find the freaking chart... lol


Both tunes work the same way, there is no difference. The JBD WILL NOT throw codes at the default setting and supposedly the VAC will not either - there is no difference. The only difference being that you have the flexibility to adjust the JBD both up and down from the default setting with the understanding that if you max it out your car MAY throw and SES light. This is easily deleated with the BT tool. There are MANY more users of the JBD than the VAC, so from my perspective it's more proven in the market place.

If you turn the JBD up to 75% to 80% there are no reports of throwing codes/SES lights at this level and engine output at this setting is significantly increased over the VAC. If you are truely that concerned about throwing a code, don't touch the settings. The money you save over a VAC can go to purchasing the optional BT cable.

Here is the dyno comparing the VAC vs the default setting of the JBD. Again the comparison is showing how the default setting of the JBD stacks up against the VAC. Turn it up to 75% or 80% and the JBD should blow the VAC's numbers out of the water.

If these results came from who I think they came from, then there was some concerns with the accuracy of the results so use them as a point of reference only. Clearly our cars don't rev that high so something appears to be off with the dyno.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

Found it -> http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=188133&postcount=577

The resolution is a little ****ty but it's interesting to see the difference between the 2 tuners.

Also, I think there was some issue with the torque numbers so take it for what it's worth.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Hard to follow the colors in the graph, but If I'm reading this correctly, it suggest the VAC has better torque numbers and just slightly lower HP results.

I also question the RPM scale - looks like it's shifted up a few thousand RPMs.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

TXPearl said:


> Hard to follow the colors in the graph, but If I'm reading this correctly, it suggest the VAC has better torque numbers and just slightly lower HP results.
> 
> I also question the RPM scale - looks like it's shifted up a few thousand RPMs.


That was my take too. But as I read it that is a JB as it ships.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

Snipe656 said:


> That was my take too. But as I read it that is a JB as it ships.


This is what I couldn't understand. If that is JB at "stock", then I can see how any setting above would wield better results than VAC. If that is JB at 100% then it's a different story altogether.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Terry has a graph out there showing what the JB made at each setting. That probably would confirm that when he said default settings he meant as it ships and not 100%.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> That was my take too. But as I read it that is a JB as it ships.


Correct, turn the JBD up a couple of notches and it should blow the VAC's numbers out of the water.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Arkady said:


> This is what I couldn't understand. If that is JB at "stock", then I can see how any setting above would wield better results than VAC. If that is JB at 100% then it's a different story altogether.


See post above. That is at the stock setting.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Which is great for people who care more about the total power numbers than anything else. For the crowd that thinks X amount of power will break something or for who fears the possibility of an SES or who knows what else then they actually have a valid reason to debate which of the two otherwise just seems silly not to get the JB. I still like the fact that it has been shown the VAC actually helps fuel economy for all the times you are not taking full advantage of the added power. If I were buying one and felt confident that I had no intentions of turning the JB up or up fully then that would certainly be my main debatable item but that is just me.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

If the VAC supposedly helps fuel economy then in princple the JBD should do the same thing considering it's the same techonolgy (a resister). 

While some diesel tunes have demonstrated they can reduce mpg's, it's usually in the case of an ECU reflash commonly used in dodge and ford diesels. I would be interested to know how someone measured the mpg improvement with the VAC. If it was strickly based off the car's computer then I would be willing to bet it is wrong. Reason being these fuel boxes (JBD/VAC), trick the ECU that not enough fuel is being delivery therefore the computer reports lower consumption numbers thus higher mpg's. If one thinks about it, these boxes work by delivering more fuel to the engine which produces the extra power; more fuel consumed more often than not translates to lower mpg's. I can tell you I am not seeing an improvement in mpg's.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Ronin is definitely one of the people who made the claim. It was a long time after he made the mistake(mistake because he went off the computer, so learned the hard way not to do that) of saying the JB increased mpg when he was the first customer to ever test one. Pretty certain another user confirmed the mpg gain as well but name alludes me right now. Regardless though the one person who has actually tested both confirmed it.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

cssnms said:


> Only downside, it can't be removed before service.


Well that's an interesting kettle of fish; here's a quote about the software for the N55 engine: "The N55 software is developed with the new BMW software and is only available as a bench load. No OBD2 interface is posible at this time. The software works with the N55 DME, no matter what chassis the engine is in. It is NOT a shadow program, it is factory BMW based software, shows up on the ISIS and GT1 as BMW software. It does NOT tamper with any emission components."

I'm going to ask him about this wrt our engine software. Might be interesting.


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## EYE4SPEED (Apr 19, 2010)

My "friend" had the JBD installed yesterday on a 335d. Was a pain the butt to get the white plastic piece out without marring the mating component / piece itself. The driver side hex bolt closest to the driver firewall was also hard to get at (the X5 just slides off). Box was set at 50% to test out and avoid CEL. Wasn't much different than stock. Was thinking that it was a smoother delivery, but it was probably more psychological since all it does is deliver more fuel to the system. I had a JHM tune (not as generic) on my Audi, as well as APR and GIAC (more generic). On those cars, the tunes were noticeably different in a good way.

We're going to try the 75% level today and will report feedback. This is the old version, so not sure if a CEL will show up.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

EYE4SPEED said:


> My "friend" had the JBD installed yesterday on a 335d. Was a pain the butt to get the white plastic piece out without marring the mating component / piece itself. The driver side hex bolt closest to the driver firewall was also hard to get at (the X5 just slides off). Box was set at 50% to test out and avoid CEL. Wasn't much different than stock. Was thinking that it was a smoother delivery, but it was probably more psychological since all it does is deliver more fuel to the system. I had a JHM tune (not as generic) on my Audi, as well as APR and GIAC (more generic). On those cars, the tunes were noticeably different in a good way.
> 
> We're going to try the 75% level today and will report feedback. This is the old version, so not sure if a CEL will show up.


Please keep us updated. I ordered the JBD last night but would love to hear your experience. I'm also coming from an APR tune.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

EYE4SPEED said:


> We're going to try the 75% level today and will report feedback. This is the old version, so not sure if a CEL will show up.


They guy I met via my daughters school has/had his at 100% during the last school year and said he'd had zero SES lights. No idea if he ever scanned for codes though. I am sure this fall I will see him again and engage in some conversations about it.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

EYE4SPEED said:


> My "friend" had the JBD installed yesterday on a 335d. Was a pain the butt to get the white plastic piece out without marring the mating component / piece itself. The driver side hex bolt closest to the driver firewall was also hard to get at (the X5 just slides off). Box was set at 50% to test out and avoid CEL. Wasn't much different than stock. Was thinking that it was a smoother delivery, but it was probably more psychological since all it does is deliver more fuel to the system. I had a JHM tune (not as generic) on my Audi, as well as APR and GIAC (more generic). On those cars, the tunes were noticeably different in a good way.
> 
> We're going to try the 75% level today and will report feedback. This is the old version, so not sure if a CEL will show up.


It is not as noticable down low, but HP and torque shoots up dramatically around the 50/60 MPH mark where the d usually dies off a bit. I noticed the difference right away, even set at the default 60% setting.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

I love it at the 100% setting. I am guessing my SES light had something to do with the 100 degree heat, and hard driving home on 2 1/2 hr road trip which included a lot of high rpm manual shifts. Since resetting the SES light and deleting the code, no more faults at the 100% setting.


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## EYE4SPEED (Apr 19, 2010)

Not too noticeable at 75% either - maybe a little at the mid-RPM's as suggested by Chris (but don't know if that is psychological now after reading his post). We will turn it up to 100% and check it out and report back. Where did you guys end up putting the box? We zip tied it to some other black hoses and it sits wedged into the ball like thing to the right of the engine cover, closer to front/driver side when looking at the car. Seems to be sitting in there ok until a final adjustment is made and it gets zip tied in.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

One install location idea (not my car of course!):


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

A little different location,,, I secure it with velcro. Used zip ties at first but find velcro easier for removing/reinstalling before service.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

cssnms said:


> A little different location,,, I secure it with velcro. Used zip ties at first but find velcro easier for removing/reinstalling before service.


Looks good :thumbup: The wire wrap is a good idea.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

GB said:


> Looks good :thumbup: The wire wrap is a good idea.


Mine came with the wire wrap.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

TXPearl said:


> Mine came with the wire wrap.


hmm...I guess Terry wasn't shipping them with the wrap during the beta testing. Pretty sure I've got something similar laying around to use, looks better then strands of wires running around.


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## EYE4SPEED (Apr 19, 2010)

100% = SES. Felt a lot smoother, but need to check on the code. Checking into the updated chip too.

Read a very interesting post over on E90 about piggy backs: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493245.

Does this apply to N57 engines too or just the N54/55?


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

GB said:


> hmm...*I guess Terry wasn't shipping them with the wrap during the beta testing.* Pretty sure I've got something similar laying around to use, looks better then strands of wires running around.


That is correct.

If you don't have it laying around, go to any Radio Shack and they will carry the stuff.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Or if Radio Shack is not convenient then any car stereo shop should work. I think I have bought some of that stuff at Walmart in the past as well.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

cssnms said:


> n timing. As a result, flashes have proven to yield much better/improved fuel economy.
> 
> I will take a flash (if it were available) all day long over a piggyback.


This company has a flash from a tuner in Germany: http://www.performingimports.com/index.php


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

Ok Amigos ,as usual I do my research, just finished talking to Ron at the above site and he quoted me approx. $1299 for the "D" that will yield you around 49 hp and 67 lbs/tq. He did not say WHP or BHP so I figure its BHP. Nonetheless, the $1300 for it way out there for me, plus shipping, we're looking at $1500. No way Jose for me, looks like JB's tuning for me. Yes, I have had ECU flash done for me on my old 02 MCS performed by RENNtech/Mini-Madness and yes it was great but I lost my flash once I moved to Puerto Rico and had the 7 day nightmare of shipping from PR to Florida to PR. WONT GO THRU that ever again!!! So there's the beef for u guys. Buenas Tardes!!


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

62Lincoln said:


> This company has a flash from a tuner in Germany: http://www.performingimports.com/index.php


Thanks for the link. Certainly another tuner that can be added to the list.

I e-mailed this company. Ron could only provide a dyno graph for a Euro spec d, (attached) although he claims the gains for the US spec d would be the same. That said, he does not have a dyno graph avail for a US spec car to back up his claims.

As for the tuning they offer, it is a resident tune, which means it cannot be removed before dealer visits (a negative IMO). While under warranty my preferance would be a flash tune through the OBDII port that can be reversed with a handheld flash programer, much like what ESS offers in Europe or the Smarty Tuner popular with the US diesel truck crowd.

Still waiting to hear back from Dinan.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Chris, FWIW, I've read somewhere on his site that this software is not detected by BMW, and in fact is read as BMW software. I asked him this specific question on another board, and he confirmed the above. Not sure what to make of it, it makes me nervous, but I don't have any reason to question his integrity on the matter. He (and his shop) seem to have a very good rep. As Axel61 mentioned, $1299 is a healthy piece of change, so I'm not jumping through hoops quite yet.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

62Lincoln said:


> Chris, FWIW, I've read somewhere on his site that this software is not detected by BMW, and in fact is read as BMW software. I asked him this specific question on another board, and he confirmed the above. Not sure what to make of it, it makes me nervous, but I don't have any reason to question his integrity on the matter. He (and his shop) seem to have a very good rep. As Axel61 mentioned, $1299 is a healthy piece of change, so I'm not jumping through hoops quite yet.


It should make you nervous if you care about warranty coverage. And what Ron says might be true at the dealer level, but I am willing to bet your warranty  that if something went chatostrophically wrong with your engine and or transmission and BMWNA got involved they could absolutely detect that the dme/engine operating perimeters were molested,,, no doubt about it. Unless Ron is willing to back it up with a warranty I would pass on such a flash or at least while my car is under warranty.

That said, I don't think his cost is unreasonable for an ecu flash, but I am not impressed with the gains for the $ spent. I am conversing with Ron who seems to be a nice guy, to try and determine exactly how this flash is making the added power e.g. increasing fuel delivery, turbo boost, a combination thereof and does it adjust the injection timing or is it simply sending a signal to the fuel pump to increase pressure and blow more diesel.

Although I am optomistic/hopeful more options will come to the market I have my doubts esp now that the 335d ended production. The only hope as I see it is that whoever (e.g. Dinan) may develop a tune for the X5d and that it will be compatible with the 335d.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

cssnms said:


> It should make you nervous if you care about warranty coverage. And what Ron says might be true at the dealer level, but I am willing to bet your warranty  that if something went chatostrophically wrong with your engine and or transmission and BMWNA got involved they could absolutely detect that the dme/engine operating perimeters were molested,,, no doubt about it. Unless Ron is willing to back it up with a warranty I would pass on such a flash or at least while my car is under warranty.
> 
> That said, I don't think his cost is unreasonable for an ecu flash, but I am not impressed with the gains for the $ spent. I am conversing with Ron who seems to be a nice guy, to try and determine exactly how this flash is making the added power e.g. increasing fuel delivery, turbo boost, a combination thereof and does it adjust the injection timing or is it simply sending a signal to the fuel pump to increase pressure and blow more diesel.
> 
> Although I am optomistic/hopeful more options will come to the market I have my doubts esp now that the 335d ended production. The only hope as I see it is that whoever (e.g. Dinan) may develop a tune for the X5d and that it will be compatible with the 335d.


Codes are easily cleared...I do it every time I take the car into the dealership.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Stugots said:


> Codes are easily cleared...I do it every time I take the car into the dealership.


I am not speaking about throwing and clearing codes, most here know codes can easily be read and cleared with a BT tool. What I am saying is that if push came to shove, BMWNA would be able to tell the dme was cracked/rewritten. I imagine it would be as simple as running data logs, but I am also sure they would just as easily be able to read the program settings. Therein lies the problem with a resident reflash.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

cssnms said:


> I am not speaking about throwing and clearing codes, most here know codes can easily be read and cleared with a BT tool. What I am saying is that if push came to shove, BMWNA would be able to tell the dme was cracked/rewritten. I imagine it would be as simple as running data logs, but I am also sure they would just as easily be able to read the program settings. Therein lies the problem with a resident reflash.


I disagree, primarily because it's not a problem with the i, either. Just reflash and clear before doing to the dealership. The ECU mod makers go through an exhaustive process to make sure that's not a problem.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Stugots said:


> I disagree, primarily because it's not a problem with the i, either. Just reflash and clear before doing to the dealership. The ECU mod makers go through an exhaustive process to make sure that's not a problem.


I am willing to bet that many owner's that have resident flash tunes fly under the radar because most owner's don't experiene major failures that would result in BMWNA getting involved and digging into the dme, but I don't have much to base that guess on. That said, the more popular reflashes on the market today have a handheld flash programer allowing the owner to switch back and forth between stock and tuned e.g. Cobb, Procede etc With a resident tune an owner does not have that luxury, you are stuck and while one may be able to read and delete codes that may have otherwise lead to a chatostrophic failure, I will still bet my bottom dollar that if BMWNA ended up getting involved and dug deep enough into the dme to try to ascertain the root cause they would absolutely be able to read code and compare it against the stock program.

Chances of a chatostrophic failure occuring as result of such a mild form of tune or otherwise are probably VERY slim, but I think it is plausible and a risk I would just not assume take. As for me, I would rather stick with my rudimentary piggyback fuel box that can be removed before dealer visits at least until there is an easily reversable flash tune made available for the d.


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## Never Enuff (Jul 3, 2011)

Being a former 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer owner who did some pretty extensive mods on my car (turbo, intercooler, pipes, full exhaust, boost controller, and ECU) I can tell you that this issue is discussed very frequently on forums related to these cars. 

It is widely known that on literally every exensive warranty claim on the turbo Lancers (i.e. motor, turbo, tranny, etc.) Mitsubishi requries dealers to check the ECU version to ensure there have been no modifications. While I still have a lot to learn about BMW, I do know that on a Mitsubishi ECU (and I would assume BMW as well) there is the ability to count the total number of flashes the ECU has received. The dealer can then easily verify that the ECU flash count is consistent with dealer ECU updates, and obviously a high ECU flash count is an immediate red flag, and cause for closer investigation. In addition, the original ECU version is associated with the VIN in the Mitsubishi database, and any updated versions installed by a dealer are also updated in the VIN service history, and an ECU tune/flash version generally won't match the original ECU version. 

It is pretty widely known that if you reflash your Mitsubishi and have a serious warranty claim that can be attributed to the reflash, it will generally be discovered, and the warranty claim will most likely be denied.

So while I admit I don't know that BMW looks at ECU mods on their turbocharged cars as closely as Mitsubishi does, on serious warranty claims, I really don't know why they would not. :dunno:

I had a Cobb Accessport with dyno Protune from my local Cobb dealer installed on my car. Even though ECU Open Source tunes cost less and had more flexibility to adjust the torque limit tables of the twin clutch transmission in that car, I always knew that if needed, one day I could totally remove the Cobb tune, reinstall the original ECU version, and there would be no latent images of the Cobb Accessport. I actually learned to like the Cobb AP, and I know that the Cobb AP tune for the 335i is a beast of a tune. In addition to the tune itself, IMHO the added features of the Cobb AP (boost, performance, fuel trim, data logging, etc.) are also quite nice to have. 

Even though I am planning to install the JBD next week, I know that based on my prior experience if a Cobb AP was available for our cars, I would buy one immediately.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

cssnms said:


> That said, I don't think his cost is unreasonable for an ecu flash, but I am not impressed with the gains for the $ spent. I am conversing with Ron who seems to be a nice guy, to try and determine exactly how this flash is making the added power e.g. increasing fuel delivery, turbo boost, a combination thereof and does it adjust the injection timing or is it simply sending a signal to the fuel pump to increase pressure and blow more diesel.


He uses tunes from a German company called PP-Performance. They have a published dyno sheet for the d tune here: http://www.pp-performance.de/3er335d210kW.htm

IIRC, the torque number comes in just under the max recommended torque for our transmission, so that might explain the figures for this tune - the tuner is being responsible and staying within the capabilities of our tranny.

I think you can fish around the tuner site and determine what parameters they manipulate, but IIRC it's a full blown custom tune and not simply a manipulation of fuel rail pressure (not that there's anything wrong with that ).

Edit: Found the page on which the tuner describes their process. Of particular interest is the example given for the Porsche Cayenne: http://www.pp-performance.de/was ist chiptuning.htm


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Stugots said:


> Codes are easily cleared...I do it every time I take the car into the dealership.


Great to see you back!


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## hotrod2448 (Jun 2, 2007)

Never Enuff said:


> Being a former 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer owner who did some pretty extensive mods on my car (turbo, intercooler, pipes, full exhaust, boost controller, and ECU) I can tell you that this issue is discussed very frequently on forums related to these cars.
> 
> It is widely known that on literally every exensive warranty claim on the turbo Lancers (i.e. motor, turbo, tranny, etc.) Mitsubishi requries dealers to check the ECU version to ensure there have been no modifications. While I still have a lot to learn about BMW, I do know that on a Mitsubishi ECU (and I would assume BMW as well) there is the ability to count the total number of flashes the ECU has received. The dealer can then easily verify that the ECU flash count is consistent with dealer ECU updates, and obviously a high ECU flash count is an immediate red flag, and cause for closer investigation. In addition, the original ECU version is associated with the VIN in the Mitsubishi database, and any updated versions installed by a dealer are also updated in the VIN service history, and an ECU tune/flash version generally won't match the original ECU version.
> 
> ...


As a former Evo owner myself I can tell you that BMW keeps a much closer eye on software and more frequently updates the software than Mitsubishi does. If I recall correctly, pretty much anytime they update the DME the existing data in the ECU is sent to corporate.

Now, in the event of a catastrophic failure you can be certain at the minimum they will run a sum check on the ECU and look at the flash counter. I'm not entirely certain the AP wouldn't leave traces of an overwrite if they really wanted to find it either. I also believe the modules in the car like transmission computer can store codes for certain engine related items (like going over the torque limit). So, there is another potential area that could rat you out if you are really worried about it.

Now, not to get too big brother is watching put on your tin foil hats crazy here but, I can tell you from my personal experience that BMWNA monitors these forums and generates probable matches as to who is who.

When I purchased my wife a new car and had a question I started a thread, this thread actually:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332619&highlight=

By the time I got home I had a message on my answering machine from BMWNA customer relations asking how they could help with my 750i, if they could make me an appointment at my local dealer, etc... It kind of freaked me out. They called back the next day too. I then e-mailed the owner of this forum asking him if they share personal info with BMWNA and he said absolutely not.

They called back a third time and I asked them how they knew who created that thread as none of my info on the forum would easily lead back to me. The woman replied that they monitor the forums and have software that generates probable matches based on things you post and the info you give them during your vehicle purchase. So, based on my email address (same as my screen name), location, ED dates, what I drive and the car I recently bought they were able to nail it down to me.

She stated it was only used to help customers but, logically it could just as easily be used to make note of things like "Hey, I ran a 12.10 with Procede equipped 335i". So... even if your car doesn't rat you out you may have done it yourself. That said I'm sure most people will not have issues with BMW pulling up forum posts for warranty denial. We'd hear more about it if they did but, I found it interesting and a little scary. So regardless of your tuning solution you should be ready to accept the potential risk of paying for what ever may break.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Ford does some sort of big brothering monitoring on forums as well. They also have some means of telling when an ECU has been reflashed as well. I have seen people get caught with the newer Mustangs and I have had a tech show a friend how it can be done on the older trucks like mine. Although never had any friends get caught in their mods on their trucks when they put back to stock before taking in but I think the techs were just being lazy or something since it is quite easy to do.


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

hotrod2448 said:


> A
> 
> When I purchased my wife a new car and had a question I started a thread, this thread actually:
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332619&highlight=
> ...


YIKES 

You guys better delete those pics with your licence plate numbers!


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

I received a reply from DINAN tonight and it appears they are indeed in the process of developing a tune for the diesel. Good news for those concerned about warranty coverage, but I would expect pricing will be lofty. No details on gains or eta etc. E-mail from DINAN is below.

Hi Chris,

It is true.

Performance Software for the diesels is in development now along with suspension for the 335d. No ETA yet from engineering.

I would suggest signing up for the DINAN Newsletter as it will have the latest news and product releases. The sign up form is located on the dinancars.com home page on the right hand side.

Thanks!

Brian


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

cssnms said:


> I received a reply from DINAN tonight and it appears they are indeed in the process of developing a tune for the diesel. Good news for those concerned about warranty coverage, but I would expect pricing will be lofty. No details on gains or eta etc. E-mail from DINAN is below.
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> ...


Forget about the suspension and start working on something aggressive for the exhaust. The suspension on the d, especially when buying the ZSP option, is sufficient. The exhaust, on the other hand, is our Achilles heel, and I would love to see work done there (stateside cars, of course).


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

I second the exhaust as long as it sounds more like a jet and not like a school bus!


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

HIREN said:


> I second the exhaust as long as it sounds more like a jet and not like a school bus!


Hit up YT for some 335d's in Europe that have some modified exhausts that sound REALLY good, and nothing like a school bus.


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## joeincs (Sep 15, 2009)

Had to take my JBD out for a couple of weeks and I gotta say when I put it back in this weekend, WOW! It really wakes up an already great engine. The wife, not so fond of it becuase I cannot keep my foot out of it. It keeps me grinning ear to ear!


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