# Lexus Vs. BMW



## iDriveguy (Feb 11, 2005)

Cheers comrades!

Just some excerpts taken from this weeks Business Week. Enjoy!

Cheers for now!

*Article from Business Week (Abridged)*

"&#8230;While long-established names such as BMW, Mercedes-Benz (DCX ), Audi, and Cadillac battled each other by adding more horsepower and by pushing the limits of styling, Lexus made conservatism its virtue. Americans loved it, buying enough posh cars and SUVs to make Lexus the best-selling luxury brand in the U.S"

"&#8230;But Lexus' *lead isn't all that it appears*. More than half of the vehicles it sells these days are SUVs, at a time when demand for big SUVs is slowing. Factor that out, and *Lexus actually ranks fifth   in luxury passenger-car sales in the U.S.* Most ominously, an increasing number of luxury-car shoppers are voting for speed and handling over a soft ride&#8230;"

"&#8230;Meanwhile, Lexus widened its U.S. sales lead over BMW last year, to almost 30,000 vehicles. Its dealers routinely rank first in J.D. Power & Associates Inc.'s customer-satisfaction survey. And the brand beats all other luxury names when it comes to consumer aspiration, according to California firm Strategic Vision Inc."

"&#8230;That new design effort is key to the emerging European strategy. Make no mistake: Selling cars in Europe -- especially to Germans -- will be Lexus' biggest challenge. The brand sold just 25,000 cars there last year and has a target of 65,000 by the end of the decade. Compare that with BMW's sales of 573,000 cars in Western Europe, up 11% from 2003."

"&#8230;Rivals aren't too worried for now. "We are taking them seriously," says BMW Chairman Helmut Panke. "But right now, we have one global competitor, and it's Mercedes."

Full article: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_09/b3922126_mz017.htm


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

Yeah I don't think we saw a single Lexus during our entire European Delivery Trip. Maybe one or two Toyotas.


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## Robsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Let BMW design a car and give it to Lexus for the manufacturing and we would have the perfect car.


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Robsa said:


> Let BMW design a car and give it to Lexus for the manufacturing and we would have the perfect car.


 Yes, in our dreams. But we'd probably end up with a bland-looking car with widows that fall into the doors.


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

cantona7 said:


> Yes, in our dreams. But we'd probably end up with a bland-looking car with widows that fall into the doors.


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

If cars had genders...the Lexus would be a woman. Their advertising clearly targets females. :angel:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Like a lot of Japanese companies, Toyota is adaptable and quick to change - they don't really have a tradition or a culture, so they can change themselves easily.

Lexus is moving quickly away from soft luxury and more toward sport. The new GS is considerably more sporty to drive than the old one, and the new IS is much more mainstream, and less boy racer than the old model, and will see a huge sales increase. 

With the E90 looking bland and prices going into the stratosphere, look for Lexus to steal market share with the new IS sedans, coupes and convertibles. Not from enthusiasts, but from mainstream buyers.


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## wheel-man (Sep 28, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> Like a lot of Japanese companies, Toyota is adaptable and quick to change - they don't really have a tradition or a culture, so they can change themselves easily.
> 
> Lexus is moving quickly away from soft luxury and more toward sport. The new GS is considerably more sporty to drive than the old one, and the new IS is much more mainstream, and less boy racer than the old model, and will see a huge sales increase.
> 
> With the E90 looking bland and prices going into the stratosphere, look for Lexus to steal market share with the new IS sedans, coupes and convertibles. Not from enthusiasts, but from mainstream buyers.


For the most part, I agree with your statements. The one thing that you forgot to mention is that not only is Toyota adaptable and DRIVEN by success, but they are the wealthiest automotive company by cash holdings and have the means to redefine themselves to remain competitive.

And yes ethusiasts will demand the performance of a BMW over the competition, but the issues of styling and price, well I disagree. I for one like the E90's styling and find it significantly more distinctive than the upcoming 'conservatively' styled IS... For that matter, I like the E60 more than the GS and Lexus does not offer anything comparable to the E61. I'm not sure what a poll would show, but from my friends who aren't 'car guys'gals' the BMW designs get the egde... Maybe Bangle was right all along?

The second is price. Although one can make an argument that price will influence consumers' buying preferences, in the Luxury car market, logic takes a back seat to bragging rights and desirability. The German manufacturers, e.g. BMW, still remain the desirable brand and will continue to do so as long as the maintain themselves as the benchmark of their specific markets and will be able to demand the premiums that Lexus/Infinit/Acura can not battle these established, at times successful-by-past-reputation-inertia only companies without offering comparable products as a lower price. And even then, looking at Infiniti and Acura, sales are initially good, but trail off as the enthusiast/well-healed/status seeking still desire the German vehicles.

I think the biggest threat to BMW, let alone Mercedes, Audi, etc., is that Toyota is perfecting hybrid technology and will soon offer it in EVERY Lexus/Toyota model, in the end offering equal/better performance to it's fuel only counterpart at substantially better MPG.

Unfortunately, BMW does not have the resources to compete head on in the hybrid market, at least no without liscencing technology from another company, e.g. as Toyota. But what it does have, and in my opinion the true transition technology to alternative fuels, are great Diesel engines that can compete with the present hybrid technologies, especially with a little forced induction for added kick .

Ultimately, if BMW can develop a hybrid diesel/electric with the latter adding performance and minimal MPG gains, they will be unstoppable.

I think BMW should be looking over their shoulder continuously as they move the art of performance and design forward.


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## iDriveguy (Feb 11, 2005)

*I agree with wheel-man & Dawg90 and would add;*

Think about "brand image". If someone says "LEXUS" you might think luxury, status, opulence, (semi) performance, reliability. But what you *DON'T * think of is a particular model or "distictive" image... Can you picture a Lexus grille? It's logo? When you hear the word Lexus do you picture a particular model?... The answer (for most) is no.

However when you say "*MERCEDES*", "*PORSCHE*", "*BMW*", (sometimes) "*AUDI*" and even "*VW*", you immediately picture their respective logo's or a particular model. Virtually the entire globe can recognize a BMW roundel or Mercedes star and know what it represents - Lexus has yet to acheive such status. The same descriptive words used for Lexus may also describe these German counterparts but they have a distinctive BRAND IMAGE  that Lexus has yet to acheive.

There was an article in the NYTimes last November about the new GS addressing this very issue. The article stated that while the GS was a great car, from any angle it is rather non-descript. The grille in particular was noted as having no "identity" unlike BMW or Mercedes which you recognize on it's own... Is it a Toyota? An Acura? An Infinit? All of these "premire" luxury Asian brands lack an "identity". This is (one) reason why they do not do well globally. (Did you know Infiniti is *ONLY* sold in the U.S.???)

Sure the best market to be successful in is the U.S. and Lexus(Toyota) is leading that market. However visit Germany, Australia, Japan, South America, Anywhere - When it comes to most recognized car it will undoubtedly be German/European.

Cheers for now! Play nice!


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

iDriveguy said:


> ...And yes ethusiasts will demand the performance of a BMW over the competition said:
> 
> 
> > *I agree with wheel-man & Dawg90 and would add;*
> ...


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

cantona7 said:


> Yes, in our dreams. But we'd probably end up with a bland-looking car with widows that fall into the doors.


 :rofl: No, that would be if Lexus designed the cars and BMW manufactured them.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

iDriveguy said:


> Sure the best market to be successful in is the U.S. and Lexus(Toyota) is leading that market. However visit Germany, Australia, Japan, South America, Anywhere - When it comes to most recognized car it will undoubtedly be German/European.
> 
> Cheers for now! Play nice!


Yeah, I think that's all true, although in Asia Toyota has massive market share, and they are introducing the Lexus brand. I saw more IS300s in Hong Kong last month than I saw E46s. China is the top growing market, and from what I saw, Toyota had 50% of it, the other half was VW. (in a poor part of China though)

What's going to hurt BMW (Mercedes is already hurting) is the Euro, up 50% against the dollar since the E46 was introduced. Let's not forget that BMW wasn't that popular before the E46 here in the US - their huge success is fairly recent, and could fade away just as quickly.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

I also think hybrids will lose their luster once the public realizes that gas mileage is often worse with the hybrid than without it.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Dawg90 said:


> I also think hybrids will lose their luster once the public realizes that gas mileage is often worse with the hybrid than without it.


Really? How so? I guess you're referring to highway mileage where you're basically just dragging arodun the electric motor w/ no benefit.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

robg said:


> Really? How so? I guess you're referring to highway mileage where you're basically just dragging arodun the electric motor w/ no benefit.


i think in some systems, the flywheel is also the emotor rotor. :dunno: there is also the benefit of max torque at 0 rpm that only emotors can give. also exotic traction control setups that can be had.


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## DoctorBimmer (Feb 13, 2003)

*OK, good points, but.........*

......the one thing that just irrates me to no end is the number of times a BMW is in the shop vs Lexus. I am not talking about a isolated car either, I have had a 95 M3, 97 528 and my current car: 03 330i Perf. Pkg. Vs 91 LS400, 95 LS400, 98 GS300 & my current car 01 LS430. I have probably had the BMW's in the shop 4 times more than the Lexi. Everytime I think that "by now BMW has to be more reliable" I am proved wrong. The 03 330i (19K miles) has been in the shop more in less than 2 yrs than the 4+ yrs of the 01 LS430 (49K miles). Part of the reason I continue to own a Lexus large size car is the out of town travel with family, roomy and NEVER breaks down. Might not be the most inspiring driving, but I can wait to get home to buckle up in the 330i. OH, EXCEPT for the 1-2 times a week the 330i dies for no apparent reason that the dealership can't figure out (restarts immediately though..........ooohhh, whoopie).


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

iDriveguy said:


> *I agree with wheel-man & Dawg90 and would add;*
> 
> Think about "brand image". If someone says "LEXUS" you might think luxury, status, opulence, (semi) performance, reliability. But what you *DON'T * think of is a particular model or "distictive" image... Can you picture a Lexus grille? It's logo? When you hear the word Lexus do you picture a particular model?... The answer (for most) is no.


True. It's mostly associated with solid, exceptionally high quality cars.



> However when you say "*MERCEDES*", "*PORSCHE*", "*BMW*", (sometimes) "*AUDI*" and even "*VW*", you immediately picture their respective logo's or a particular model. Virtually the entire globe can recognize a BMW roundel or Mercedes star and know what it represents - Lexus has yet to acheive such status. The same descriptive words used for Lexus may also describe these German counterparts but they have a distinctive BRAND IMAGE  that Lexus has yet to acheive.


Ah, but with those three names other things spring from the lips of people:

Expensive to own
High maintenance
Owned by yuppies and wannabes
Badges with no value
Overpriced



> There was an article in the NYTimes last November about the new GS addressing this very issue. The article stated that while the GS was a great car, from any angle it is rather non-descript. The grille in particular was noted as having no "identity" unlike BMW or Mercedes which you recognize on it's own... Is it a Toyota? An Acura? An Infinit? All of these "premire" luxury Asian brands lack an "identity". This is (one) reason why they do not do well globally. (Did you know Infiniti is *ONLY* sold in the U.S.???)
> 
> Sure the best market to be successful in is the U.S. and Lexus(Toyota) is leading that market. However visit Germany, Australia, Japan, South America, Anywhere - When it comes to most recognized car it will undoubtedly be German/European.
> 
> Cheers for now! Play nice!


Not sure what the value is of being recognized if the recognition is almost universally related to negative things.

In So Cal BMWs/MBs/Audis are everywhere and everybody has an opinion about them. The majority of opinions I hear - negative. So much so that I tell people I drive a Mazda Protege as the reaction to BMW is so decidely pejorative.

If Lexus or Infiniti made a car that handled as well as my ZHP and was as much fun to drive, I would have bought one in a second.


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

iDriveguy said:


> *I agree with wheel-man & Dawg90 and would add;*
> 
> Think about "brand image". If someone says "LEXUS" you might think luxury, status, opulence, (semi) performance, reliability. But what you *DON'T * think of is a particular model or "distictive" image... Can you picture a Lexus grille? It's logo? When you hear the word Lexus do you picture a particular model?... The answer (for most) is no.


"Lexus" - I picture the logo. No grill or car yet, but definitely the logo.

"Infiniti" - I picture the G35, and that analog dash clock.

"Acura" - NSX. Acura has repeatedly said that that car is a "brand image" car (they keep losing money on them), and it's working on me. A few years ago their TL/CL/whatever line wasn't in my head, but now I definitely think of the NSX and the TSX when I hear their name.

Remember that Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are all extremely young brands when compared to the German competition. The image is still being built... and it's one of reliability, value, and sound financial sense.

I get a new BMW every 3 years as it is just to stay inside of the full warranty. If the new IS offers me reasonable gas mileage, 300+ HP, Lexus reliability, an LSD and E46-comparable chassis dynamics for $5k less than a comparable BMW, they'll SELL me a car every 6-7 years versus me leasing one from BMW FS every 3.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> I also think hybrids will lose their luster once the public realizes that gas mileage is often worse with the hybrid than without it.


The RX400h gets 29 mpg and sprints to 60 in 7 seconds. Toyota is purposely using hybrids now to get better mpgs but also way better performance. That's the step that will help make hybrids mainstream. 23 mpg and and 0-60 sprints in 6 seconds in my ZHP is nice. Getting 28 mpg and 5 second sprints would be better. :thumbup:


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> The RX400h gets 29 mpg and sprints to 60 in 7 seconds. Toyota is purposely using hybrids now to get better mpgs but also way better performance. That's the step that will help make hybrids mainstream. 23 mpg and and 0-60 sprints in 6 seconds in my ZHP is nice. Getting 28 mpg and 5 second sprints would be better. :thumbup:


 Agreed... the new hybrid Accord is a great example -- fast AND good mpg. Car & Driver was amped about it.


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## BMWenthusiast (Feb 27, 2005)

MARCUS545 said:


> If cars had genders...the Lexus would be a woman. Their advertising clearly targets females. :angel:


hehe...i think BMW will become more agressive in the US in the coming 2 years, and with the introduction of the 1/2 series soon as well as more designs BMW should sell mroe and more cars


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

Rowag said:


> "Infiniti" - I picture the G35, and that analog dash clock.


"Infiniti" - I picture Mike Meyers sitting on the "Infiniti Toilet" from that SNL Infiniti commercial spoof!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: that was so hilarious.

--J.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

Robsa said:


> Let BMW design a car and give it to Lexus for the manufacturing and we would have the perfect car.


You can't have quality if the design is flawed. Bad window regulators and non working moonroofs are the result of poor design, and not the quality of the assembly.


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## bmwxdrive (Nov 13, 2004)

cantona7 said:


> Yes, in our dreams. But we'd probably end up with a bland-looking car with widows that fall into the doors.


I think that lexus are great cars but I dont really like them. I think that they can never take BMW's spot among people who know a thing or two about cars. BMW's RULE :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :banana:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The RX400h gets 29 mpg and sprints to 60 in 7 seconds. Toyota is purposely using hybrids now to get better mpgs but also way better performance. That's the step that will help make hybrids mainstream. 23 mpg and and 0-60 sprints in 6 seconds in my ZHP is nice. Getting 28 mpg and 5 second sprints would be better. :thumbup:


The problem with hybrids is the EPA mileage is way too high, owners aren't getting close to that, and often lower than the equivalent model without the electric motor.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Dave 330i said:


> You can't have quality if the design is flawed. Bad window regulators and non working moonroofs are the result of poor design, and not the quality of the assembly.


Very true. Even w/ all the problems people report here, I can't think of many (if any) that are due to assembly errors. They're almost all rhe result of poor design. We'd be best served if BMW would contract itself out t Toyota for suspension (and possibly engine) design.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The RX400h gets 29 mpg and sprints to 60 in 7 seconds. Toyota is purposely using hybrids now to get better mpgs but also way better performance. That's the step that will help make hybrids mainstream.


But they are charging the damn thing for almost $50k ($48,535 to be exact). Adding the dealer premium and a bunch of useless crap, I'm not surprised to see $55-56k out the door. How much gas can you save in the entire life of the car?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

mkh said:


> But they are charging the damn thing for almost $50k ($48,535 to be exact). Adding the dealer premium and a bunch of useless crap, I'm not surprised to see $55-56k out the door. How much gas can you save in the entire life of the car?


dealer premium? it's a car. people who pay over sticker...can't even conceive of paying sticker.

it's the highest performance RX made. that's something that is always worth 3-4k extra. remember the rx hybrid is about performance and better mileage. you're concentrating on one aspect and it's not the aspect toyota is pushing with the rx.

you seem to have conveniently ignored my point with my 330i zhp. yeah 22-23 mpg and 5.6-5.9 0-60 runs are decent. but i'd prefer 26-27 mpg *and* 0-60 runs a full second faster. electric engines have max torque instantly. the rx is over a second faster to 60 than its normal engine couterpart. that's a nice jump and for once getting more power doesn't mean a loss in economy.

why are you so opposed to more power and better mileage? i could understand if the hybrid system resulted in slower acceleration and great mileage. i'd have no use for that and toyota knows that's true of most people. show them marginally better economy and way better performance...everybody understands that's a bonus.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> why are you so opposed to more power and better mileage? i could understand if the hybrid system resulted in slower acceleration and great mileage. i'd have no use for that and toyota knows that's true of most people. show them marginally better economy and way better performance...everybody understands that's a bonus.


Oh no, please don't misunderstand. I'm totally with you. In fact, I myself was thinking about it for my X5 replacement until I saw the price. My comment was about the high price. I was expecting about $3k more than the current model for the hybrid, ie $40k base price. With options, I think $45k is reasonable, but not $50k. Why do they make it mandatory to include the Nav and rear camera in the hybrid? If they can be optioned out, the price will look a bit better. I'm all for hybrid, but I can't justify paying that much more for it when I can get a non-hybrid model for $42k msrp, even if it is a second faster to 60. But this is just my opinion. There must be someone who is willing to pay the price.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

mkh said:


> Oh no, please don't misunderstand. I'm totally with you. In fact, I myself was thinking about it for my X5 replacement until I saw the price. My comment was about the high price. I was expecting about $3k more than the current model for the hybrid, ie $40k base price. With options, I think $45k is reasonable, but not $50k. Why do they make it mandatory to include the Nav and rear camera in the hybrid? If they can be optioned out, the price will look a bit better. I'm all for hybrid, but I can't justify paying that much more for it when I can get a non-hybrid model for $42k msrp, even if it is a second faster to 60. But this is just my opinion. There must be someone who is willing to pay the price.


I also like the idea of hybrids, and maybe newer ones will offer better performance AND better mileage, but it seems in real tests (not staged EPA tests), the hybrids are underperforming by over 10 mpg in many cases.

You are adding the weight of one or two electric motors, generator, battery packs, electrical equipment - it's a tough trick to get better performance with all that extra weight.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

mkh said:


> Oh no, please don't misunderstand. I'm totally with you. In fact, I myself was thinking about it for my X5 replacement until I saw the price. My comment was about the high price. I was expecting about $3k more than the current model for the hybrid, ie $40k base price. With options, I think $45k is reasonable, but not $50k. Why do they make it mandatory to include the Nav and rear camera in the hybrid? If they can be optioned out, the price will look a bit better. I'm all for hybrid, but I can't justify paying that much more for it when I can get a non-hybrid model for $42k msrp, even if it is a second faster to 60. But this is just my opinion. There must be someone who is willing to pay the price.


My guess is that RXs probably don't sell too often stripped down. They probably did some research with current owners and found out that the big baller, load it up types were the same ones who would want the hybrid power. :dunno:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> My guess is that RXs probably don't sell too often stripped down. They probably did some research with current owners and found out that the big baller, load it up types were the same ones who would want the hybrid power. :dunno:


I'd guess it has as much to do with trying to alleviate some guilt about buying a gas guzzler, as actual concern about gas mileage.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Both BMW and Mercedes built their image worldwide with strong presence and success in motorsports. When you think of these 2 brands you immediately picture some of their race cars, at least I do. Racing is part of their heritage. Let's look at Japanese luxo brands, hmm, their presence in motorsports is nonexistent. If the car is winning races it makes it immediately desirable by enthusiasts, I guess in a way it proves marketing claims.

Ok, Honda engines dominated F1 in late 80's and Toyota won few WRC titles and that's basically it. Do you know that the only Japanese manufacturer to ever win Le Mans is Mazda? 

If I was to buy a people hauler I would definitely look into Japanese cars again (I bought RX300 for my wife few years ago) but for sports sedan I will always pick German car.


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## MaxBuck (Jan 30, 2005)

Toyota and Honda have both done quite well in Indycar, so the last comment is not accurate.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

MaxBuck said:


> Toyota and Honda have both done quite well in Indycar, so the last comment is not accurate.


They also compete in BTCC, Japan Touring Cars (JGTC?), WRC etc.

But in Honda and Toyota's case, yeah, they don't seem to give us much these days that relates to racing. No more Type Rs or twin-turbo Supras. I hope the trend is reversing.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

MaxBuck said:


> Toyota and Honda have both done quite well in Indycar, so the last comment is not accurate.


Both IRL and Champ Cars are not what I would call world class racing series. Name a known worldwide racing series and at some point it was dominated by German cars. 
I'm talking about heritage and motor racing is huge part of it for BMW.


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

F1Crazy said:


> Both BMW and Mercedes built their image worldwide with strong presence and success in motorsports. When you think of these 2 brands you immediately picture some of their race cars, at least I do. Racing is part of their heritage. Let's look at Japanese luxo brands, hmm, their presence in motorsports is nonexistent. If the car is winning races it makes it immediately desirable by enthusiasts, I guess in a way it proves marketing claims.
> 
> Ok, Honda engines dominated F1 in late 80's and Toyota won few WRC titles and that's basically it. Do you know that the only Japanese manufacturer to ever win Le Mans is Mazda?
> 
> If I was to buy a people hauler I would definitely look into Japanese cars again (I bought RX300 for my wife few years ago) but for sports sedan I will always pick German car.


 The Rolex 24 Hour Race at Daytona last month had a few Lexus-powered prototypes. Not the same as somebody coming out with an IS-300 in GT class, but a Lexus DP did come in 4th... right behind the 1-2-3 Pontiac finish.

Pontiac, by the way, had some serious presence there. A GTO was the pace car, they had a sizeable corral area, and now their commericals on Speed Channel are using their podium sweep to the best of their marketing abliity.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Rowag said:


> The Rolex 24 Hour Race at Daytona last month had a few Lexus-powered prototypes. Not the same as somebody coming out with an IS-300 in GT class, but a Lexus DP did come in 4th... right behind the 1-2-3 Pontiac finish.
> 
> Pontiac, by the way, had some serious presence there. A GTO was the pace car, they had a sizeable corral area, and now their commericals on Speed Channel are using their podium sweep to the best of their marketing abliity.


I don't really dig DP idea :dunno: To me it's kinda like endurance version of Nascar.


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

F1Crazy said:


> I don't really dig DP idea :dunno: To me it's kinda like endurance version of Nascar.


 Not really my cup of tea, either. I much prefer the GT class.


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## facedoc (Aug 11, 2003)

*Impeccable Lexus service, buying bmw*

I have two Lexus vehicles, 470LX 1999 - reliable but not as comfortable on a long ride as a 2000 740i. Invested in roof rack for sailing laser on bmw because the lexus was just too much a boat for a long ride. But perfectly reliable.

Lexus SC430 Nieman Marcus #42 of 100 - Thunder grey metallic, chrome wheels, red leather, purple walnut gorgeous, black headliner, etc. - coming off lease - 10,000 miles total . Great deal coming off lease will not keep it. Why? Navigation (in all Lexus vehicles) drives me nuts. Have to stop the car in order to make entries, even if two of us in car. For a woman this is quite a humming car. Still gets thumbs where ever we go. Anyone interested? Will sell at lease buy out in April for $44,500.

What will I buy? 750isport. Taking a gamble on reliability, but getting a BMW for all its other attributes. Will I regret it? I don't know.


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