# Just bought 2010 335d - Found troubling service history



## NWSnowboarder (Aug 30, 2015)

I am not new to diesel vehicles having been driving diesel cars for 30 years and over 700,000 miles. I currently drive close to 30,000 miles a year for the DOT. I have a M-B 300D and a Land Rover diesel, I just purchased a 2010 335d because I read awesome reviews of the car and decided I wanted a bit more oomph and fun in my daily driving. I like to drive my diesels with my foot in them, thats what a diesel loves.

I am aware of the CBU and EGR issues with this model, though I wasn't before I bought.

The prior owner appeared to only drive the vehicle round town and drove an average of 8,600 miles/year. 

It took quite a bit, but I was able to get the full service history for the car (attached), which was serviced at one dealer exclusively.

I purchased the vehicle as a CPO with a 3 year, 45,000 mile extended service plan

What I have found disturbing is:
- At 27,000 miles the head was removed and cleaned
- At 40,000 miles all six injectors were replaced
- At 43,000 miles the intake manifold was walnut carbon blasted
- At 46,376 miles the SES light came on and indicted a need for a new intake manifold with swirl flap actuator.

The prior owner drove it right to Lexus and traded it in rather then pay for the new intake manifold.

So now I have bought this car with only 3,400 miles since it was carbon cleaned and only 6,000 miles since all the injectors were replaced.

When I spoke with the BMW service manager he said the fuel quality here in North America is not up to par with German fuel and that the engine was really meant to be driven hard.

I hope I am not really disappointed by this car. It drives so beautifully.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Its not hard to believe that its the fuel, as I don't think BMW tested their diesels with anything but established brand fuel s.a. Chevron. Cetane, additive tech (metallic additives seem to cause more carbon buildup), perhaps filtering, and other intangibles like tank maintenance and contamination all probably contribute. Diesel is a brew more heavily dependent on quality of base stock with paraffin content etc. varying quite a bit.

PL


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about the injectors part. BMW changes them for no reason as part of the CBU protocol.


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## jfxogara (Oct 26, 2012)

I'd say that is about par for the course. Normally the intake manifold and swirl flaps would have been soaked/blasted during the CBU treatment the car has already been through. If not, and it may be difficult to find out but look at the old invoices, it may be necessary to take the car to an Independent and have them "finish the job," in effect.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

I am not an expert or anything, but I believe I've read on here that the worst thing you can do to a 335d is exactly what the previous owner did. Read everything you can find on here and I think you'll find CBU is much less a problem if you drive it like you stole it, ie. Stick your foot in it a lot.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Michael47 said:


> I am not an expert or anything, but I believe I've read on here that the worst thing you can do to a 335d is exactly what the previous owner did. Read everything you can find on here and I think you'll find CBU is much less a problem if you drive it like you stole it, ie. Stick your foot in it a lot.


I have 92k miles. Had my share of issues, mostly minor and related to the emissions crap. The usual slipping fan belt, the harmonic damper recently, the charge air pipe which was actually left over damage from a front end collision.

I've had no CBU to date and I do drive it briskly/spiritly about 36 miles each way every day, about 60% highway and 40% city and traffic.

I think CBU is caused by some of the emissions controls (EGR, CCV) not doing their job as designed. Coupled with short drives not allowing engine to reach proper temp and loading up of the engine.

I am close to pulling the trigger on an EGR/DPF/DEF delete and tune. It looks like it would be a pretty penny but I am planning to hold on to this car to at least 200k miles.

I fully concur that there is nothing else out there that can compare with the 335D in regards to handling, power, and efficiency and the whole fun to drive factor.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

NWSnowboarder said:


> I am not new to diesel vehicles having been driving diesel cars for 30 years and over 700,000 miles. I currently drive close to 30,000 miles a year for the DOT. I have a M-B 300D and a Land Rover diesel, I just purchased a 2010 335d because I read awesome reviews of the car and decided I wanted a bit more oomph and fun in my daily driving. I like to drive my diesels with my foot in them, thats what a diesel loves.
> 
> I am aware of the CBU and EGR issues with this model, though I wasn't before I bought.
> 
> ...


Reading the service history, there is nothing unusual for the 335d. I had all this done, throttle actuator, swirl flap, injectors. Except for my car, I had 17 injectors and about every part of the DEF system replaced twice plus the crank pulley, and more.

There are some that will blame us, the owners, at not fuelling with the best fuel or not driving it the right way. I do not buy this argument. Here in Atlanta, there is no refinery, most of the fuel sold locally come from a pipeline terminal in Doraville (Magellan Terminals Holding). If you drive nearby, you will see tanker trucks for the major brands refilling at the same terminal.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

It's funny how some people (especially service advisers) still point to fuel quality.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Interesting. Which dealer did the servicing: Tacoma, Bellevue or Seattle? Inquiring minds want to know who's good and who's bad.

A lot of the head/intake work was done over and over - they clearly had no idea (until the CBU SIB came out) what to do to fix the problems. As all the fuel in WA basically comes from the same place, it's also interesting that one car has had so many problems, and others (mine) haven't.

One thing to note: that car has not (yet) had problems with the DEF tank and NOx sensors. Only the mixer/injector was replaced per recall - however, I not that the recall work (EGR) wasn't done in 2011, but in 2012... Bad dealer service, or owner was not on top of it.


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## NWSnowboarder (Aug 30, 2015)

I feel fortunate that it has had a recent CBU cleaning and all the injectors replaced. I am hoping that with brisker driving habits, keeping it in sport mode, regular highway driving at 80mph or greater  etc. will keep this engine happy and carbon free. It does get to 100++ awfully fast, which I am confident the prior owner did not due, (I located her name and Googled, she is a 45yo of Asian decent, need I say more.:slap

Since I have an extended warranty I really can't do the EGR/SCR/DPF delete and re-tune...YET.

I am use to incredible diesel reliability. With regular maintenance my MB 300D has gone 400k miles with no engine issues. 160k miles since I last rebuilt the injectors, (yes I did it myself, replaced the needles, nozzles, shims and pop tested) but then again it's an older Mercedes not a new school BMW


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## NWSnowboarder (Aug 30, 2015)

floydarogers said:


> Interesting. Which dealer did the servicing: Tacoma, Bellevue or Seattle? Inquiring minds want to know who's good and who's bad.


Vehicle was exclusively serviced at Seattle BMW. Because of the extended warranty I feel compelled to continue getting the vehicle serviced there, though getting into the dealership is a PITA. I don't want the warranty provider to have any reason to decline coverage.

It worries me that the dealership called for a new intake manifold PRIOR to me purchasing the vehicle and extended warranty.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

NWSnowboarder said:


> I feel fortunate that it has had a recent CBU cleaning and all the injectors replaced.
> ...
> Since I have an extended warranty I really can't do the EGR/SCR/DPF delete and re-tune...YET.
> 
> I am use to incredible diesel reliability. With regular maintenance my MB 300D has gone 400k miles with no engine issues. ...but then again it's an older Mercedes not a new school BMW


That old MB was not a common rail machine with piezo-electric injectors, for sure!



NWSnowboarder said:


> Vehicle was exclusively serviced at Seattle BMW. Because of the extended warranty I feel compelled to continue getting the vehicle serviced there, though getting into the dealership is a PITA. I don't want the warranty provider to have any reason to decline coverage.
> 
> It worries me that the dealership called for a new intake manifold PRIOR to me purchasing the vehicle and extended warranty.


1) In WA state, don't forget that our cars have an 7/70K emissions warranty. BMWNA has likely paid for a lot of the repair work (if Seattle BMW is smart, at least.)
2) The SIB for CBU calls for different procedures than BMW Seattle did. I'm a little worried about that. I think they're grasping at straws a bit with the manifold replacement, as the SIB calls for a chemical soak yet they claim they did a walnut blast on the manifold...
3) Do you have to come down from Everett? Their new shop should be easy off I5 @ 4th/stadiums... Of course you'll crawl at 30 mph ... 

Do you SB at Stevens? I'm a ski/SB instructor down at Crystal. Get some snow tires for that car for sure.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I seem to recall that in the early years BMW was replacing the intake manifold instead of cleaning them. Now with the SIB they are walnut blasting!


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## NWSnowboarder (Aug 30, 2015)

floydarogers said:


> 1) In WA state, don't forget that our cars have an 7/70K emissions warranty.


That would explain why the PO didn't pay for any of the cleaning, injectors, etc after the 4 year mark. Glad to know that.



floydarogers said:


> 3) Do you have to come down from Everett? Their new shop should be easy off I5 @ 4th/stadiums... Of course you'll crawl at 30 mph ...


That's why it's such a PITA. My daily commute is Everett - North Seattle - Anacortes - Everett, 155 miles round trip. Throwing in a trip to the dealer



floydarogers said:


> Do you SB at Stevens? I'm a ski/SB instructor down at Crystal. Get some snow tires for that car for sure.


Already reading snow tire evaluations, but I also have a diesel Land Rover if it gets deep and snow tires on the MB. Thinking of keeping the MB instead of selling it.

I use to be on Ski Patrol and a Level II instructor at Snoqualmie, (the only place that allowed snowboarders to bring sleds down the hill, before Booth Creek bought it.) Now I primarily SB outside the area, such as Mt. Bachelor, Mt. Baker, Schweitzer, and Austria or Switzerland every other Winter.


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## pasing (May 11, 2011)

floydarogers said:


> 1) In WA state, don't forget that our cars have an 7/70K emissions warranty. BMWNA has likely paid for a lot of the repair work (if Seattle BMW is smart, at least.)
> 
> What does this cover, exactly? I just passed my 4 year mark and have about 38K miles. CBU cleaning was done under the OEM warranty two months ago.
> 
> Thanks.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

pasing said:


> floydarogers said:
> 
> 
> > 1) In WA state, don't forget that our cars have an 7/70K emissions warranty. BMWNA has likely paid for a lot of the repair work (if Seattle BMW is smart, at least.)
> ...


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

As other have implied nothing really to worry about. At the beginning of the CBU issues BMW was doing a lot of crazy things to solve the problem. Now that they have a handle on the CBU issue and a documented solution, the car would have only needed what is now standard walnut blasting of the head in place, and cleaning/replacing the intake manifold. Th e intake manifold is plastic and the difference in cost in some areas between cleaning and replacing is not that great. 

Our car with 70K miles had the standard walnut blasting and intake replacement at 53K miles. No injectors or other engine components have been changed or replaced although the DDE program was updated a few times.


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## NWSnowboarder (Aug 30, 2015)

KeithS said:


> As other have implied nothing really to worry about. At the beginning of the CBU issues BMW was doing a lot of crazy things to solve the problem. Now that they have a handle on the CBU issue and a documented solution, the car would have only needed what is now standard walnut blasting of the head in place, and cleaning/replacing the intake manifold. Th e intake manifold is plastic and the difference in cost in some areas between cleaning and replacing is not that great.
> 
> Our car with 70K miles had the standard walnut blasting and intake replacement at 53K miles. No injectors or other engine components have been changed or replaced although the DDE program was updated a few times.


Agreed that it is a now a well documented problem with a standardized cleaning measure, but the problem of CBU has not been solved by BMW. Isn't it reasonable as end consumers that we should expect BMW to come up with a better solution than spending thousands on walnut carbon blasting and intake manifolds? Perhaps a re-design of the swirl chamber or internally coated/polished intake manifold?

I haven't read anything yet that the EGR re-mapping has truly solved the problem.


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## diesel fan123 (Nov 25, 2011)

Hi,
My 2010 had all those problems and even a few more. 
All covered under the CPO. 
I always decoded the SES myself first, looked up (on the forums) the issue, found the relevant SIB for presentation & discussion , and then made an appointment.

Don't know if this helped "condition" the dealer to pay attention or not, but @ 82k miles, all problems have been repaired.

Very happy with the dealer, as my SES was illuminated constantly from 2012. 

And they eventually made my car a stable, reliable and FUN mode of transportation.

If it was not for the outrageous torque monster motor, I would have thrown in the towel long ago. 

So I intend to enjoy the "D" until 99,999 and then surrender it for a more mundane alternative.
At that point in time, I will be approaching 70 years old, need a geezer-mobile.
Frank


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Yours! I am 66, four years to go, and the X5 _is_ my geezer-mobile.

Milady Wife plays bridge on-line (BBOL). A cyber-partner showed up at our Florida vacation rental in a MB wagon and bragged that they could transport both of their Hover-rounds in the space of the removed second seat row. We needed about as much room for our bicycles. That's how she decided on the X5 - and I love it!


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

NWSnowboarder said:


> Agreed that it is a now a well documented problem with a standardized cleaning measure, but the problem of CBU has not been solved by BMW. Isn't it reasonable as end consumers that we should expect BMW to come up with a better solution than spending thousands on walnut carbon blasting and intake manifolds? Perhaps a re-design of the swirl chamber or internally coated/polished intake manifold?
> 
> I haven't read anything yet that the EGR re-mapping has truly solved the problem.


BMW isnt going to come up with a solution to the CBU problem because the EPA will not let them. Deleting the EGR and routing the CCV to atmosphere is the only real complete solution. Deleting the EGR alone will keep you pretty much CBU free. Neither of those options would be allowed by the EPA.


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## BMW4Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

*NWSnowboarder*, where did you obtain a vehicle history report for your car (see attached document that was part of your original post)? Did the dealer produce a report like this or is it from some other source?

I know there is a "Warranty Vehicle Inquiry" that you can get from the dealer (YMMV as to whether they will give it to you) that lists everything that has been done to the car (maintenance and repairs) during the warranty period.



NWSnowboarder said:


> I am not new to diesel vehicles having been driving diesel cars for 30 years and over 700,000 miles. I currently drive close to 30,000 miles a year for the DOT. I have a M-B 300D and a Land Rover diesel, I just purchased a 2010 335d because I read awesome reviews of the car and decided I wanted a bit more oomph and fun in my daily driving. I like to drive my diesels with my foot in them, thats what a diesel loves.
> 
> I am aware of the CBU and EGR issues with this model, though I wasn't before I bought.
> 
> ...


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## NWSnowboarder (Aug 30, 2015)

BMW Seattle printed out all the service invoices for the original owner, blacked out her name and address, then gave me copies. I really had to twist their arm insisting on not leaving without the history. I the put the pertinent info in MS Excel and saved is as a PDF.


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

next time, get a X5 diesel - they don't have the CBU issues as much and are very reliable.

I love mine and would have kept her;......


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