# Latest on SAT + NAV issues for E60



## gmmandrade (Feb 14, 2004)

By now we all know that BMW is claiming they won't have the NAV and SAT compatiblity issues figured out till the Fall. BUT, the latest wrinkle is that apparently the SAT prep wiring that some of you have already gotten and/or paid for is useless, if you have NAV in the car.

I make it a point of contacting my dealer every couple of weeks (I have an ED 545i ordered, pick up in June), to inquire about the latest on the SAT and NAV compatibility issues. This week, he said word had come down from BMW. The following are the main points:

- For cars with NAV, the SAT will be purely a software retrofit, which they expect to arrive later this year (Fall of 2004)
- Therefore, dealers cannot accept orders for both NAV and SAT, and also they cannot accept the SAT Radio Prep orders any more for cars with NAV, since the prep (mostly wiring) is actually useless with NAV

Of course this begs the question, what if you've already ordered and/or paid for the Sat Radio Prep?

And the saga continues.....


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

Ahh...maybe that explains why the $75.00 fee for Sat prep didn't show up in my preliminary paperwork from the dealer last week!

545i/sport/nav/logic/fold_seats/Euro Deliv. 4/30/04


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## LondonBlue (Feb 26, 2004)

*What is SAT?*

What is SAT? Is it satellite system for radio or something? I have ED set for early May. I ordered a 530 with a NAV.


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## Dave T (Apr 18, 2004)

Hey, gmmandrade:

I'm in a similar situation, a little bit behind you. I'm also in Boston, looking at getting a 545 via ED, and also want NAV and SAT. I was considering waiting until a September build car, until I saw your post. So, it's just a software retrofit - no wiring required, right? I'm confused about what the "SAT Prep" was, if all that was required was a software upgrade. But, I guess that's better.

I was just wondering if you've heard anything in the last month that made you more or less confident on this.

Thanks.

- Dave


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## CapeBimmer (Mar 16, 2002)

I returned last night from my ED. Great time. If you followed some of my posts before I left you saw that my dealer incorrectly ordered my car with a standard transmision instead of automatic. I must say the 545 sport 6 speed is a great car, but alas an automatic has been ordered. 

The standard car was ordered with Nav and Sat Prep. The replacement car will (can not) not have Sat Prep. Hopefully the "fix" will be a software issue only.


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## gdavis (Apr 14, 2004)

CapeBimmer said:


> I returned last night from my ED. Great time. If you followed some of my posts before I left you saw that my dealer incorrectly ordered my car with a standard transmision instead of automatic. I must say the 545 sport 6 speed is a great car, but alas an automatic has been ordered.
> 
> The standard car was ordered with Nav and Sat Prep. The replacement car will (can not) not have Sat Prep. Hopefully the "fix" will be a software issue only.


I have been working with my CA to try to find out the info on this exact issue and also spoke with a person today from BMWNA. The attachments that I have added here are from BMWNA and were given to me by my CA. They explain that if you have NAV, it should be a software change to support the Sat radio. It implies that no further wiring would be needed, but doesn't state it in so many words.

The person I talked with today said that there was no guarantee that the sat radio will be able to work on NAV equipped units, but it sounds like next autumn will be the time when we will find out. I hope these attachments are able to be viewed


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## Dave T (Apr 18, 2004)

I also talked to my CA about it, and he looked into it and came back with basically the same thing. So, things look good, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. The thing I'm still not understanding is how it could only be a software upgrade. There must be some hardware involved - you'd need a SAT antenna and tuner, right? Even if the sharkfin as is can function as the antenna, where's the tuner? Is that built into all stock cars, whether SAT is ordered or not?

In any case, I think I can live without SAT. It would be nice for when travelling in areas of poor reception, but otherwise I kind of like the radio - listening to local stations.

- Dave


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## gmmandrade (Feb 14, 2004)

Dave T said:


> I also talked to my CA about it, and he looked into it and came back with basically the same thing. So, things look good, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. The thing I'm still not understanding is how it could only be a software upgrade. There must be some hardware involved - you'd need a SAT antenna and tuner, right? Even if the sharkfin as is can function as the antenna, where's the tuner? Is that built into all stock cars, whether SAT is ordered or not?
> 
> In any case, I think I can live without SAT. It would be nice for when travelling in areas of poor reception, but otherwise I kind of like the radio - listening to local stations.
> 
> - Dave


There's two different things.

One is what was previously referred to as SAT Prep, which involved wiring in the trunk and the "innards" of the car, connecting a potential SAT tuner to the existing electronic ring on which everything else is connected (NAV, stock radio, idrive, etc, etc). This apparently is no longer needed if you get NAV, presumably because the wiring and prep that is done for NAV will somehow be sufficient to then accomodate the SAT. :dunno:

BUT, and this is the second thing, you will still have to pay $600 (or whatever it'll be by then) to get a SAT radio tuner and equipment retrofit. It'll be put in your trunk and an antenna will be put somewhere, not sure where. So you still need the hardware, you just don't need the wiring.

It's definitely not just purely software.

The only disconcerting thing, as already pointed out by another fellow poster here, is that we are having to infer these things, because the actual statement from BMWNA is fairly vague. There is really no promise that these things will ever work together. The only thing we know is that if they ever work together, you will not need the old SAT prep to use it.... 

This also means that I am not sure it's worth waiting till September, since there's no guarantee the problems will be resolved by then, and if they are, you can likely get a retrofit. Just get the car, and enjoy.....

BTW, my dealer told me yesterday that they are sold out of 545's through the Summer. This is in southern CT. So it might be a while before you can get your hands on a car anyway, you might as well go ahead 

Do not use Herb Chambers to order your ED car. They refused to negotiate with me, and lied to my face about the allocation process.


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## maug1 (Apr 27, 2004)

*Sirrius Radio*

I just purchased a 530I with SAT installed at the factory. The dealer said it was the first car they have seen this way. It is great!!!! There is a problem with a couple of the categfories in that the radio does not show the stations that should fall within that specific category but you can manually tune to whatever station you want. Neither Sirriu or the dealer know of any fix for this issue as the radio is "Too new." It is probably a software issue as I am also having some problems with BMW Assit (the new software is supposed to be in this week). By the way, BMW pays for the first year of the Sirrius service--I found out after I already paid but I am getting a credit back. Other than these two minor problems the car is great. By the way I traded in a 2001 X5 3.0 for the 530i. The dealer also took $2,500 off the MSRP--I guess he wanted to make a sale.


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## gdavis (Apr 14, 2004)

What I am beginning to sense is that the heart of the problem may lie with the BMW Assist and the Sirius antennas. It may also involve the GPS from Nav. This may be why Sat and Nav hav been found to be incompatible. There might be something with the proximity of the antennas and frequencies of all these transmitting and receiving antennea interferring or disrupting each other.

If Assist were to be eliminated, I wonder if Nav and Sat could then function? I would be glad to live without Assist, but would prefer to have Sat. 

It is probably the case, that Sirius was the last of these items to be rolled into the develoment mix, since it only works in north america, they might not have been able to even test it early enough in the process in real live dynamics. 

It certainly would be nice if we could know the real bottom line on it though. They imply that software might be the fix, but it may have to do with software to prevent the signals from interferring, which could be very challenging to resolve. (this same antenna issue may also explain part of the AM radio crackling/weak signal issues???)


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## my1stbmw (Oct 10, 2003)

*I am confused!*



gmmandrade said:


> There's two different things.
> 
> One is what was previously referred to as SAT Prep, which involved wiring in the trunk and the "innards" of the car, connecting a potential SAT tuner to the existing electronic ring on which everything else is connected (NAV, stock radio, idrive, etc, etc). This apparently is no longer needed if you get NAV, presumably because the wiring and prep that is done for NAV will somehow be sufficient to then accomodate the SAT. :dunno:
> 
> ...


I think i am confused now! I have Nav but did NOT order Sat prep because I couldn't do it. Does this mean that the neccessary wiring is already there and all I need now is a module for the trunk and a software upgrade for my SAT to work?

I don't get it!


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## gmmandrade (Feb 14, 2004)

my1stbmw said:


> I think i am confused now! I have Nav but did NOT order Sat prep because I couldn't do it. Does this mean that the neccessary wiring is already there and all I need now is a module for the trunk and a software upgrade for my SAT to work?
> 
> I don't get it!


Yes, this is what my dealer said, and he showed me the official notice from BMW. It seems that by getting NAV, they've already installed wiring and equipment in the trunk such that if a SAT system is ever made compatible from a software perspective, they can put the tuner in the trunk and wire it to the rest of the hardware.

It's all about software issues (so that IDrive can display and control your SAT radio) and antenna placement issues (supposedly they can't put the SAT antenna in the sharkfin, so God knows where it will go).


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## gmmandrade (Feb 14, 2004)

maug1 said:


> I just purchased a 530I with SAT installed at the factory. The dealer said it was the first car they have seen this way. It is great!!!! There is a problem with a couple of the categfories in that the radio does not show the stations that should fall within that specific category but you can manually tune to whatever station you want. Neither Sirriu or the dealer know of any fix for this issue as the radio is "Too new." It is probably a software issue as I am also having some problems with BMW Assit (the new software is supposed to be in this week). By the way, BMW pays for the first year of the Sirrius service--I found out after I already paid but I am getting a credit back. Other than these two minor problems the car is great. By the way I traded in a 2001 X5 3.0 for the 530i. The dealer also took $2,500 off the MSRP--I guess he wanted to make a sale.


Where did they put the SIRIUS antenna, do you know?


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## 545iSMG (Feb 25, 2004)

The Sirius antenna is part of the shark fin on the E60.


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## maug1 (Apr 27, 2004)

*Sirius Antena*



gmmandrade said:


> Where did they put the SIRIUS antenna, do you know?


I am not sure where the antenna is as the SIRIUS is factory installed (I am told, the first one in California). That being said, I believe the antenna is in the Shark Fin as there is no additional antenna on the car. I am taking the car in tomorrow for the software upgrade and I will ask service where it is located.


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## my1stbmw (Oct 10, 2003)

gmmandrade said:


> Yes, this is what my dealer said, and he showed me the official notice from BMW. It seems that by getting NAV, they've already installed wiring and equipment in the trunk such that if a SAT system is ever made compatible from a software perspective, they can put the tuner in the trunk and wire it to the rest of the hardware.
> 
> It's all about software issues (so that IDrive can display and control your SAT radio) and antenna placement issues (supposedly they can't put the SAT antenna in the sharkfin, so God knows where it will go).


Nice. So that means if you have NAV you will be able to get SAT radio when they figure out how to do it.


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## maug1 (Apr 27, 2004)

*Sirius Antenna and software upgrade*

When I dropped my car off this morning I confirmed that the Sirius antena is in the Shark Fin. As an aside, the dealer has advised me that the software update takes 4 1/2 to 5 hours to load if all goes smoothly--they have had to restart the download twice on my car today.


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## DavidNJ (Apr 30, 2004)

IMHO the only way to make sure Nav and Sat work together, and to get Bluetooth, is to order a September car. Which is what my wife and I are doing.

Probably ED in early October.


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## 545iSMG (Feb 25, 2004)

If I were you, assuming all those things are important to you, I'd wait until everything is confirmed for September.

You don't want to order something based on information that may still change!


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## gmmandrade (Feb 14, 2004)

DavidNJ said:


> IMHO the only way to make sure Nav and Sat work together, and to get Bluetooth, is to order a September car. Which is what my wife and I are doing.
> 
> Probably ED in early October.


That is absolutely no guarantee whatsoever. The fact that the cars are not yet being produced with SAT+NAV together (and I know, because mine is being produced in two weeks, and they can't provide both things yet) means they haven't yet figured out how to do it. They have indicated they EXPECT to have things worked out by the Fall, ie., it's a best guess. They've gotten this wrong several times since the car was launched last year.

The only way to make sure is to wait to order till after they've already produced a vehicle with both features together. Given the delays in ordering, the means it'll be a couple of months from the day they say they've got it all sorted out.

Anything other than that is just a gamble.


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## SkiScubaSailDud (Mar 6, 2004)

gmmandrade said:


> By now we all know that BMW is claiming they won't have the NAV and SAT compatiblity issues figured out till the Fall. BUT, the latest wrinkle is that apparently the SAT prep wiring that some of you have already gotten and/or paid for is useless, if you have NAV in the car.
> 
> I make it a point of contacting my dealer every couple of weeks (I have an ED 545i ordered, pick up in June), to inquire about the latest on the SAT and NAV compatibility issues. This week, he said word had come down from BMW. The following are the main points:
> 
> ...


My car is a January 2004 production, and has the SAT option, without NAV. I have BMW Assist, and am waiting on Bluetooth to hopefully come my way...

The Sirius Sat radio is great! The antennae is in the sharkfin, and, althougth there are some small issues with the radio interface in the iDrive, the quality is exceptional, and sounds great through my stock 10 speaker setup. I end up on one station all the time anyways... no commercials and great content keeps my audio input selector on SAT!

Besides, if NAV is all that important, I suggest a laptop, DeLorme Street Atlas 2004, and a GPS reciever. 

Lovin' my E60...


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## 545iSMG (Feb 25, 2004)

SkiScubaSailDud said:


> Besides, if NAV is all that important, I suggest a laptop, DeLorme Street Atlas 2004, and a GPS reciever.


In my opinion, the more elegant solution/workaround to the sat/nav problem is to order the car with nav and get an aftermarket satellite radio system. Doing it the other way around as you suggest is much more cumbersome and expensive.

Obviously, the best solution to this problem is for BMW to get things sorted out and make them both work -- that's the option I'm crossing my fingers for -- if that doesn't happen, it won't be hard to install a Sirius (or XM) system in the future.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

*Built in NAV is always better*

Than one that is not wired into the car. A laptop would be far too awkard to use while driving and the handheld require a PC to load maps.

More importantly, built in systems can continue to navigate when they lose the link to the sats (e.g. in a downtown area or a tunnel). A handheld cannot.


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## samlee4444 (Oct 2, 2003)

maug1 said:


> I just purchased a 530I with SAT installed at the factory. The dealer said it was the first car they have seen this way. It is great!!!! There is a problem with a couple of the categfories in that the radio does not show the stations that should fall within that specific category but you can manually tune to whatever station you want. Neither Sirriu or the dealer know of any fix for this issue as the radio is "Too new." It is probably a software issue as I am also having some problems with BMW Assit (the new software is supposed to be in this week). By the way, BMW pays for the first year of the Sirrius service--I found out after I already paid but I am getting a credit back. Other than these two minor problems the car is great. By the way I traded in a 2001 X5 3.0 for the 530i. The dealer also took $2,500 off the MSRP--I guess he wanted to make a sale.


A couple of questions. Do you have NAV on your 530?? If so, how do you select the satellite radio stations? I heard that if you want to scroll to say channel 100 to 150, you need to turn that knob for like an hour! Is there any way to input numbers?


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## SkiScubaSailDud (Mar 6, 2004)

Unfortunatly, with the current software, you do have to spin the I-drive a bit to get to the lower channels. I have found however, that I can with one motion, spin right to Sirius Channel 20.. Octane. A few more stiff spins, and I'm right at Fox News. Just like anything else, a little inconvienient at first until you figure it out... If only the list scrolled continuously from the last channel to the first.


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## BMWNA (Jan 15, 2002)

samlee4444 said:


> A couple of questions. Do you have NAV on your 530?? If so, how do you select the satellite radio stations? I heard that if you want to scroll to say channel 100 to 150, you need to turn that knob for like an hour! Is there any way to input numbers?


I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. I'm sorry to read about this problem with your radio. If you want our assistance, please phone us at (800) 831-1117, and mention Reference #200415900275 so that we can help you more efficiently.


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