# New owner: 328D X-drive



## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

GreekboyD said:


> Sounds like your alignment is off.


Take it to a dealer asap. If the alignment is off, BMW will pay for a re-alignment as long as there are not many miles on the car. Within the first 2,000 miles, I think.


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## totitan (May 11, 2013)

Hopefully BMW has spent some R&D money on the EGR/emissions system so you won have to worry about excessive carbon buildup the way we do. Hopefully I will eventually find someone who knows how to remap the ECU so the EGR will just stay closed. Anyway enjoy your new ride.


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## BMWpete12 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks everyone. It's at the dealer again. I love this car, but I've only had it for 3 weeks and its had the following issues: Replace emissions sensor, steering calibration, key doesn't store data for service. These all appear minor however. But still, I didn't expect it to be at the dealership this much right out the gate. 

Hopefully (knock on wood) after this latest round the car will settle down


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

BMWpete12 said:


> Thanks everyone. It's at the dealer again. I love this car, but I've only had it for 3 weeks and its had the following issues: Replace emissions sensor, steering calibration, key doesn't store data for service. These all appear minor however. But still, I didn't expect it to be at the dealership this much right out the gate.
> 
> Hopefully (knock on wood) after this latest round the car will settle down


What sensor exactly? NOx ones were always an issue here and there on the 335d.


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## BMWpete12 (Apr 1, 2013)

Emissions Sensor... I don't have the exact name for it


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## Marspilot (Jan 11, 2014)

*328d grief continues*

Pete

I have a new 328d that also had a bad Nox sensor at 203 miles. 
I love the way the car drives, but I am starting to think I bought the wrong vehicle. My car has a strong smell 
in the cabin that I can't determine if it is exhaust like or cosmoline burning off or something else. The dealer changed the partcle filter and purified the AC system thinking the smell was coming in through the air vents. The smell comes in whether or not the fan is on or off, and in all filter modes A. M, or off. If I open the sunroof and or the windows, the smell increases dramatically. If the car is running and I stand outside the car, very little smell is detected. I smell no exhaust near the tailpipe. The smell inside the engine compartment while engine is running does not seem that strong. 
I have 1500 miles on vehicle. A lot of the miles are from driving the car to/from dealer. 
Can you lt me know if you are experiening any smells Pete?
Much thanks.


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Marspilot said:


> Pete
> 
> I have a new 328d that also had a bad Nox sensor at 203 miles.
> I love the way the car drives, but I am starting to think I bought the wrong vehicle. My car has a strong smell
> ...


Trying to lighten things up a bit, maybe a service guy had his lunch in there, stuffed the leftovers under the seat, and a rodent got in a finished it off and then expired. This is all tongue-in-cheek of course, but stranger things have happened.


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## Geotrash (Dec 22, 2013)

Mars, I don't have any such odor in mine. Given that it starts so soon after you start the engine, I'd be looking closely at everything attached to or near the turbo. A leak in the turbo plumbing is a reasonable bet. Did you have the smell before they replaced the NOx sensor also?

Dave


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## diablo2112 (Nov 19, 2006)

Hope you don't mind a bit more info in this thread. I've got a new 328d as well (F31 wagon). Anyway, it may be the sensor that's giving problems is the one in the urea tank. Another common issue on the 335d. Is this the same sensor as the "NOx" sensor? I'm honestly not sure, and I'm not even sure there's a true sensor for NOx. I know a bit about the SCR systems on these vehicles, and if you don't mind, here's a bit more info that may clarify things. I'm repasting this from another thread that had similar problems with the emission sensors.

----

Here's a bit more info on the sensor for the diesel exhaust fluid. You can thank US regulations for this. Not only do new diesels require SCR technology (selective catalytic reduction) to reduce nitrous oxide (NOX) emissions, the EPA put a suffocating amount of regulation around these systems. Note that this is new technology, and industry is just now developing rugged sensors and systems to meet EPA regulations.

For your 328d, not only do you have a tank which holds a urea/water mixture for use in the SCR system, EPA also requires sensors for both level and composition of this fluid. This is pretty tough to do, and hasn't been proven in wide-spread consumer use yet. There's a couple of ways to measure the quality/composition of the urea mixture. EPAs goal was to prevent consumers from filling these tanks with water to get around emission requirements. I believe the BMW sensor is using a new technology which uses ultrasonics. This sensor both measures the fluid level in the tank ultrasonically and measures the speed of sound in the mixture, which is correlated to the concentration of urea. If its out-of-spec, it triggers a fault code (likely what you read).

This is more complicated than it sounds. Contaminated sensors or fluid, unusual temperature gradients (the reading must be corrected for temperature, there's a digital lookup table for this), and other factors will all degrade the accuracy of this measurement. Apparently, this system really isn't ready for primetime. I've read several reports of these sensors needing replacement in BMW systems (especially the 335d). In BMWs wisdom, the sensor is basically a permanent part of the urea tank, and you have to replace the whole tank to fix sensor issues. Not the best engineering here.

Did I mention that EPA requires that if the tank reads no fluid, that it disallows the engine to start? Let me repeat: you can't even start the car when the urea tank is empty. This is ridiculous* and a safety hazard, IMHO (a better penalty would be limp-mode or limited performance; at least allow the driver to get the car to a truck stop to fill with AdBlue). Couple this ridiculous mandate with flaky sensor technology, and we have a recipe for future headaches with these systems. It's only going to get worse as diesels become more popular in the US, courtesy of CAFE regs.

*it's especially ridiculous when you consider the enormous baseline of old diesels still on the road in the US. Every diesel pickup from the last 30 years, untold numbers of buses and larger commercial vehicles, and many heavy trucks and other equipment are all running without SCR technology. The first wave of high-efficiency small autos with new SCR tech isn't going to make a bit of difference to overall emissions if they happen to start the engine without reagent in the urea tank. A beyond silly regulation that can and should be repealed in the interest of safety.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Whoever originally posted this^^^ is unaware that Europe is under the same stiffer emission regulations starting this year. The EPA has nothing to do with that. In other words, the consensus among environmental experts is that these changes are necessary. I expect reliability of these systems to improve rapidly.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

diablo2112 said:


> For your 328d, not only do you have a tank which holds a urea/water mixture for use in the SCR system, EPA also requires sensors for both level and composition of this fluid. This is pretty tough to do, and hasn't been proven in wide-spread consumer use yet. There's a couple of ways to measure the quality/composition of the urea mixture. EPAs goal was to prevent consumers from filling these tanks with water to get around emission requirements. I believe the BMW sensor is using a new technology which uses ultrasonics. This sensor both measures the fluid level in the tank ultrasonically and measures the speed of sound in the mixture, which is correlated to the concentration of urea. If its out-of-spec, it triggers a fault code (likely what you read).


Unless they changed from the way it was done in the 335d, the determining the composition of the diesel fluid is not that complicated. It's an indirect measurement. If the NOx is not reduced with the injection of diesel fluid, then the system declares it of incorrect composition.


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## diablo2112 (Nov 19, 2006)

d geek said:


> Whoever originally posted this^^^ is unaware that Europe is under the same stiffer emission regulations starting this year. The EPA has nothing to do with that. In other words, the consensus among environmental experts is that these changes are necessary. I expect reliability of these systems to improve rapidly.


I am most aware that EU standards for diesel emission require SCR technology starting this year. And I have NEVER stated I disagree that these are needed. Clean diesel is to be applauded. I do object strongly to the overreaching EPA regulations surrounding this technology. They have added unnecessary requirements that impair safety and do nothing to enhance compliance. A more balanced regulatory approach would only hasten consumer acceptance of clean diesels, not hinder it as the current regs do. Disallow an engine start when the system thinks there's no reagent? Do you agree with this? If you do, why not extend this reasoning to gasoline engines. Disallow a gas engne start if OBD detects some failed component.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

diablo2112 said:


> I am most aware that EU standards for diesel emission require SCR technology starting this year. And I have NEVER stated I disagree that these are needed. Clean diesel is to be applauded. I do object strongly to the overreaching EPA regulations surrounding this technology. They have added unnecessary requirements that impair safety and do nothing to enhance compliance. A more balanced regulatory approach would only hasten consumer acceptance of clean diesels, not hinder it as the current regs do. Disallow an engine start when the system thinks there's no reagent? Do you agree with this? If you do, why not extend this reasoning to gasoline engines. Disallow a gas engne start if OBD detects some failed component.


You get what, a warning that you are running out in 999 miles & then ever increasing frequent warnings before a no start is allowed? and you can find DEF anywhere? I'm sorry but if you aren't responsible enough to take care of it then I really don't mind you being inconvenienced.


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## diablo2112 (Nov 19, 2006)

d geek said:


> You get what, a warning that you are running out in 999 miles & then ever increasing frequent warnings before a no start is allowed? and you can find DEF anywhere? I'm sorry but if you aren't responsible enough totake care of it then I really don't you being inconvenienced.


My compliant is if the sensor fails, it will refuse to start. This can happen without the various warnings of a low tank, etc. We've had issue after issue on both the 335d and now the 328d in the USA with reagent sensors and warnings with otherwise non-empty reagent tanks. My concern is a failed sensor system will render the car inoperative.

Again, would you extend this exact same philosophy to a gas engine? Have the inability to start if the OBD detects an emissions fault?


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## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

Marspilot said:


> Pete
> 
> I have a new 328d that also had a bad Nox sensor at 203 miles.
> I love the way the car drives, but I am starting to think I bought the wrong vehicle. My car has a strong smell
> in the cabin that I can't determine if it is exhaust like or cosmoline burning off or something else.


The EGR cooler could possibly be cracked if you are smelling exhaust inside. Here's a lengthy thread about this over on the X5 side http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517621

Or could be that it smells because it is new, I've always had new cars emit unusual smells while driving as different parts get hot. They disappear after a while.


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## Marspilot (Jan 11, 2014)

Geotrash said:


> Mars, I don't have any such odor in mine. Given that it starts so soon after you start the engine, I'd be looking closely at everything attached to or near the turbo. A leak in the turbo plumbing is a reasonable bet. Did you have the smell before they replaced the NOx sensor also?
> 
> Dave
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


Yes the smell has been there since day one.


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## Marspilot (Jan 11, 2014)

diablo2112 said:


> Hope you don't mind a bit more info in this thread. I've got a new 328d as well (F31 wagon). Anyway, it may be the sensor that's giving problems is the one in the urea tank. Another common issue on the 335d. Is this the same sensor as the "NOx" sensor? I'm honestly not sure, and I'm not even sure there's a true sensor for NOx. I know a bit about the SCR systems on these vehicles, and if you don't mind, here's a bit more info that may clarify things. I'm repasting this from another thread that had similar problems with the emission sensors.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

diablo2112 said:


> My compliant is if the sensor fails, it will refuse to start. This can happen without the various warnings of a low tank, etc. We've had issue after issue on both the 335d and now the 328d in the USA with reagent sensors and warnings with otherwise non-empty reagent tanks. My concern is a failed sensor system will render the car inoperative.
> 
> Again, would you extend this exact same philosophy to a gas engine? Have the inability to start if the OBD detects an emissions fault?


Let me know when a failed sensor results in a no-start situation. I'm not aware of any actual reports of this. Are you certain that there are not safegaurds in the software that treat an inplausible signal from the sensor differently than an empty tank?

I do believe that emission controls should be operational on any car- gassers included. How that is enforced is a different matter. IMO emission control systems should be checked by the appropriately trained and certified specialist on a regular basis. The owner/operator should be held accountable for keeping the system in working order. Of course this is not enforced in most of the US, but other countries such as Germany do a good job of enforcing the requirements.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

diablo2112 said:


> My compliant is if the sensor fails, it will refuse to start. This can happen without the various warnings of a low tank, etc. We've had issue after issue on both the 335d and now the 328d in the USA with reagent sensors and warnings with otherwise non-empty reagent tanks. My concern is a failed sensor system will render the car inoperative.
> 
> Again, would you extend this exact same philosophy to a gas engine? Have the inability to start if the OBD detects an emissions fault?


It has never happened (no start). Not worth the time or energy to worry about it.


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## diablo2112 (Nov 19, 2006)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> It has never happened (no start). Not worth the time or energy to worry about it.


Had a CEL and warning display on the dash go off twice in the first 2500 miles on my 328d. Code was unrecognized by my reader. Had to take it to the dealer, a 235 mile round trip for me. Twice. It has *already* cost me time and energy, and an unexpected day off of work. I could have had the car towed in, but that's extra hassle to arrange an backup. The code was related to the reagent sensor. These systems are still flaky, IMHO.


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