# 7\70 emissions warranty?



## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

floydarogers said:


> Since I live in WA state, calling CARB won't do $hit for me, since they only care about CA residents.:rofl:
> .


wow. Why all the discussion about the CA emissions warranty then?

:dunno:


----------



## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

ard said:


> wow. Why all the discussion about the CA emissions warranty then?


WA State is a CA emissions state. But we (and the other 11) have no ability to call CARB since they're not interested in non-CA residents. We only have the option to call BMWUSA. And there is no (obvious) path via our WA State agencies to apply pressure on them that I know of - and I've asked.

I did get my SCR mixer and SCR injector (metering valve) replaced at 65K under the CA warranty, but had to get the SA to call BMWUSA to confirm coverage. The service dept would NOT have done that on their own.

Have you had a CA emissions claim? If not, I probably know more than you, having negotiated this process at least 3 times. Unfortunately, my NOx and/or SCR Catalyst are now throwing codes, and I'm over 70K so I'm screwed at this point. Which reminds me, I need to go out and fill my DEF tank as I just got a "No Start in 999 miles" warning.


----------



## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

floydarogers said:


> . Unfortunately, my NOx and/or SCR Catalyst are now throwing codes, and I'm over 70K so I'm screwed at this point. .


Not necessarily...if you are under 8/80 the feds may be interested in the failure rates and what BMW told them when BMW and the federal guys negotiated the federal warranty.

I'll mention it, but am sure you are aware- if you've had documented "Diesel emissions issues" (with CELs, codes and a history of repairs) prior to 7/70, you may have significant leverage to say they were aware of the underlying defect during the 7/70 and the current issues are a continuing defect.

I am not involved in the fed regulatory process, but would think that public input that sheds light on the true failure rates and costs might be useful.

As I said before, BMW can be looking at massive exposure if the feds decide the diesel emissions components meet the criteria for "specified major emissions components"...

Ref: 42 US code § 7541:



> (2) Specified major emission control components
> In the case of a specified major emission control component, the warranty period for new light-duty trucks and new light-duty vehicles and engines manufactured in the model year 1995 and thereafter for purposes of subsection (a)(1) of this section and subsection (b) of this section shall be 8 years or 80,000 miles of use (whichever first occurs). As used in this paragraph, the term "specified major emission control component" means only a catalytic converter, an electronic emissions control unit, and an onboard emissions diagnostic device, except that the Administrator may designate any other pollution control device or component as a specified major emission control component if-
> (A) the device or component was not in general use on vehicles and engines manufactured prior to the model year 1990; and
> (B) the Administrator determines that the retail cost (exclusive of installation costs) of such device or component exceeds $200 (in 1989 dollars), adjusted for inflation or deflation as calculated by the Administrator at the time of such determination.


All fyi


----------



## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

ard said:


> Not necessarily...if you are under 8/80 the feds may be interested in the failure rates and what BMW told them when BMW and the federal guys negotiated the federal warranty.
> 
> I'll mention it, but am sure you are aware- if you've had documented "Diesel emissions issues" (with CELs, codes and a history of repairs) prior to 7/70, you may have significant leverage to say they were aware of the underlying defect during the 7/70 and the current issues are a continuing defect.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I've been cogitating on this very point. One additional thing: my DEF transfer pump seems to be toast - only the active tank took DEF today; the passive tank appeared to be full. For that problem, BMW wants to replace the entire tank(s).

You may not have seen, but the SCR Catalyst appears to not be covered by the 8/80. Someone noted that BMWUSA had denied coverage on their car. It's very frustrating, especially since many of us don't have CARB to go to bat for us.


----------



## firstbimmer (May 25, 2006)

Crazy...so car goes in today and technician diagnosis is that both tanks are full of def and thus that is why I cant add fluid. 

This is confusing since I hadnt filled def in 14000 miles and work order for oil change 1500 miles ago says "dont fill def" because I didnt want to pay dealer prices and was going to do it myself. When I got home after the appt 1500 miles ago, I put one small bottle in the active tank but could not get any to go in passive tank. That started this whole concern about the vent being plugged. Service technician couldnt figure it out today so SA decided to go ask the technician who worked on my car last time if he had filled def without telling anyone?

SURE ENOUGH!...the last technician has in his notes that he filled my def tanks out of warranty without telling anyone and without putting it on the work order. So here this guy does something nice for me and it ends up coming back at him because nobody could fugure out why my passive tank wouldnt take any def fluid after 14000 miles. The guy tried to save me money and time but instead it ended up making everyone run around trying to figure out what the problem was. This is a perfect example of when the ability to check tank levels in idrive would have saved everyone time. 

I wish I could thank the technician for the kind deed he did and I feel bad if he ends up getting in trouble since the service department spent half a day trying to diagnose the problem and the sa spent time trying to get me covered under the 7\70 warranty.


----------



## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

floydarogers said:


> Yeah, I've been cogitating on this very point. One additional thing: my DEF transfer pump seems to be toast - only the active tank took DEF today; the passive tank appeared to be full. For that problem, BMW wants to replace the entire tank(s).
> 
> You may not have seen, but the SCR Catalyst appears to not be covered by the 8/80. Someone noted that BMWUSA had denied coverage on their car. It's very frustrating, especially since many of us don't have CARB to go to bat for us.


SCR Catalyst is covered under federal 8/80k. Unfortunately, SA's seem to be ignorant of the fact, when I was originally charged for the replacement; however, I looked up the information and talked to the service manager, who acknowledged it should have been covered and refunded the costs. I had also written to the EPA, and the EPA was surprisingly quick to respond the next day by email specifying that the SCR catalyst has to be covered under 8/80k federal.


----------



## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Can you PDF that email and post it here for reference? Could be helpful to someone else.


----------



## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

imtjm said:


> SCR Catalyst is covered under federal 8/80k. Unfortunately, SA's seem to be ignorant of the fact, when I was originally charged for the replacement; however, I looked up the information and talked to the service manager, who acknowledged it should have been covered and refunded the costs. I had also written to the EPA, and the EPA was surprisingly quick to respond the next day by email specifying that the SCR catalyst has to be covered under 8/80k federal.


I'm now at 82K !:rofl: But, as we've discussed, I do have some recourse via service records as having had problems. If my SCR goes out in the next little while I'm going to complain like heck.


----------



## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

My car was checked out under the 2012 voluntary emissions recall for SCR Catalyst, EGR Valve and/or DEF mixer and ECU software flash under CAMPAIGN NUMBER: 11E-A03. I believe since the dealer found nothing wrong at that time, even though it failed after the fact, it no longer was covered under that campaign.


----------



## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

sirbikes said:


> Can you PDF that email and post it here for reference? Could be helpful to someone else.


attached. the link he included is a dead link since it doesn't include "pubs" in the url, and should be http://www.epa.gov/obd/pubs/420f09048.pdf

The doc does not spell out SCR catalyst, but the SCR catalyst is diesel catalytic converter.


----------

