# T-Boned by a SUV



## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

A Toyota 4runner ran a red light and crashed into my 330xi last wednesday as I was crossing an intersection on a green light. The SUV was totalled and everyone in it is OK but no injuries to me or my 2 passengers. Both side airbags and the side curtain airbag inflated and saved my passengers. I decided to pursue compensation thru the other insurance co. (Progressive) and they took a full 6 days before towing the car to a body shop. The body shop (Quattro in Silver Spring, MD) called me and said they didn't want to touch the car and that I would be better off taking it to a dealer or a shop specializing in BMW. Since I heard good things about Wagonwork in Alexandria, VA, I am having Progressive tow it there. Progressive will not pay for anything more than getting the car back to its original shape. Has anyone been successful trying to get an insurance company to pay for depreciation after an accident? Also, my passengers got themselves checked because they had sore necks/arms and they are totally fine now. Progressive offered them an inconvenience payment of $400 in addition to the medical bills to them but will not consider giving me any inconvenience payment since I didn't go to a doctor. Also, they won't accept my request to "total" the car and just pay me the market value for the car. So it looks like I wil be driving a crappy rental while I wait for the car to get fixed which could be as long as 2 months. I am glad that there were no injuries but I'm just really bummed about the whole thing I have to go through dealing with the insurance company.

I would appreciate any advice from any of you who've been through similar experiences.
:bawling:


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

here's a picture of the car after the crash


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

View from the inside


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Holy Sh*t !

Sorry about that. Glad noone was injured and you and your passengers are safe.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

darchen said:


> *Has anyone been successful trying to get an insurance company to pay for depreciation after an accident?*


It sounds like you're referring to "diminished value". Here's a link to an article on the topic: click.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Wow. Glad to hear that no one was seriously hurt in the accident. When you said that the SUV was totaled, I expected to see a very bent E46...but it looks like the car held up remarkably well. Still, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that your car will be declared a total loss.

An E36 M3/4 was T-boned by a Porsche last year and the damage looked only marginally worse, from what I remember. The frame, however, was bent enough to total it out. While your car held up admirably in the accident, I question the "trueness" of your B-pillar and your frame in general. Furthermore, repairing the car will require replacement of all the glass and all of the airbags that deployed in the accident. I would let Wagonwork do their thing and get back to you and your insurance company with an estimate.


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## FireFly (May 2, 2002)

Sorry to hear about your accident. Glad no one was seriously hurt. 

Car does not appear to be totaled and I'm sure this is why progressive will not total it for you. Always a real PITA when dealing with insurance companies.


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

My advice is, you should go through your own insurance company and let them, as professionals, handle your claim. There is a record of the accident and it will be no secret to them, so what's the advantage of not using them? Glad everyone is OK, so far.


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## rost12 (Dec 22, 2001)

Ouch  

Hope it works out for you! Good luck.


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

johnlew said:


> *My advice is, you should go through your own insurance company and let them, as professionals, handle your claim. There is a record of the accident and it will be no secret to them, so what's the advantage of not using them? Glad everyone is OK, so far. *


I called my company (Geico) right after the accident. They said I could pay the deductible and have them pursue it and eventually pay me back when they get the payment from Progressive. Or I could handle it entirely through Progressive, which is what I'm doing. I may get Geico involved if Progressive starts creating problems over Wagonwork's estimate.

Thanks for the support, everyone!


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Glad you are ok.

Sorry about the car.

Unfortunately, I've got no good advice for you in the insurance issue you are having, good luck getting it all straightened out.

Z


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## numbersguy (May 21, 2003)

When my truck was sideswiped on the freeway I made a claim with my insurance company, GEICO, paid the $250 deductible and let GEICO go after the jackass driver's schlock insurance company.

I met the GEICO adjuster at the best body shop in town and was amazed as he wrote off parts that were barely scratched. My driver side power mirror had popped off it's mount and was dangling from the power cord. I popped it back in on the side of the freeway and it worked perfectly (thank you Ford) and didn't have a mark on it despite being knocked off by the collision. When I told the GEICO adjuster about this he just wrote the sucker off and bought me a new one.

Understand that this schlock insurance company and its adjusters and attorneys are your legal adversaries. You've already had too much contact with them and you've undoubtedly made statements that would work against you in court in the unlikely event that you would take them to court. If GEICO is willing to handle this for you then by all means use them to get your car taken care of and stop talking to these jerks whose job it is to stiff you and your passengers. Considering the possibility of an injury claim in a situation like this I am disgusted that they would try to screw with you on your property claim. Well, I guess they are specially trained in dealing with claimants who haven't a clue about their legal remedies.

And about the deductible: GEICO recovered it from the other insurance company, Allstate I think, and sent me a check about two or three months later.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I agree with some of the other members let your insurance company handle the claim. Progressive will try to pay out the least amount possible when dealing with you directly.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

*Diminished value*

Glad you're alright. I'm amazed at how well the car did with a nasty SUV hitting you. it looks like other than the doors the car is in pretty good shape (hidden damage aside).

Look at your policy on diminished value. A couple of years ago, State Farm send out a policy amendment on mine explicitly stating they won't pay for diminished value. Chances are your policy states the same, so going through your co. might not help. I suppose you could always sue the SUV driver in small claims for the amount.


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

and THAT'S why I'm getting a Bimmer! I want to win the battle when those flippin' SUV's try to cream me. My current lil Mitsy would get creamed in a hit like that against an SUV. =/


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## wookiehoth (Jun 14, 2003)

I used to work at a major corporation's office of general counsel. I think our department's motto would apply in your situation:

"SUE THE BASTARD"


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## fkafka (Mar 12, 2002)

What speed was the other car moving when it hit you?


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

fkafka said:


> *What speed was the other car moving when it hit you? *


I couldn't tell. The SUV driver told the officer that he had been wating at the light and thought it turned green and hit the accelerator. The accident report said that he was not wearing eyeglasses as required by his driver's license. Can you believe that?? I saw him coming at me as I was going through the intersection. I honked and tried to swerve to my left but it was too late. I heard a loud crash and my car was about to spin. It was amazing how I was able to steer it back into control and stop it on the other side of the intersection. I remember noticing that the light was still green when I got to the other side.


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

Three words: Get a Lawyer.

You alone against an insurance company is like Bambi vs Godzilla. They probably wouldn't like a lawyer poking around the possible personal injury claims with your passengers, and would be more flexible in settling your property claims. A lawyer will cost you something, but would probably be worth it, if, for nothing else, to show that you're serious.

BTW, I'm amazed how well the car held up. Usually, when I think center punch, with someone in the seat next to the hit, I think fatality. The fact that everyone walked away is very impressive.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

darchen said:


> *I called my company (Geico) right after the accident. They said I could pay the deductible and have them pursue it and eventually pay me back when they get the payment from Progressive. Or I could handle it entirely through Progressive, which is what I'm doing. I may get Geico involved if Progressive starts creating problems over Wagonwork's estimate.*


Ouch, Progressive. Don't even bother, pay your deductable and be done with it.

What kind of frame machine does the bodyshop have? If it's not Cellete with laser alignment, take the car to one that does.

Do they use the BASF paint system with Glasurit paint? If not, take the car to one that does.

You should have also had the docotr checked you that day, or the day after, this is how insurance works. If you don't, they are going to claim that you have no injury and the claim was a false one for you to make a few bucks.

BTW, the damage is EASILY 20K to 25K to fix properly.

Good luck, and take this from me, Progressive and Mercury HATES paying anything to either the claimant or the insured. That's why they are cheap. Oh, and they also HATE to pay any suppliment as well.

Good luck, you are going to need it.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

Stuka said:


> *Ouch, Progressive. Don't even bother, pay your deductable and be done with it.
> 
> Good luck, and take this from me, Progressive and Mercury HATES paying anything to either the claimant or the insured. That's why they are cheap. Oh, and they also HATE to pay any suppliment as well.
> 
> ...


Not everything is best accomplished as a do-it-yourselfer!


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

As someone with bodyshop clients and have adjuster and estimater friends, this is GREAT advice.:thumbup:

Don't talk ANYMORE to Progressive. Geico will handle the claim as subrogation claim, and will get the deductable recovery for you. This is what you pay Geico for.

BTW, no fault accidents are no points against you.

Good luck.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG



numbersguy said:


> *When my truck was sideswiped on the freeway I made a claim with my insurance company, GEICO, paid the $250 deductible and let GEICO go after the jackass driver's schlock insurance company.
> 
> I met the GEICO adjuster at the best body shop in town and was amazed as he wrote off parts that were barely scratched. My driver side power mirror had popped off it's mount and was dangling from the power cord. I popped it back in on the side of the freeway and it worked perfectly (thank you Ford) and didn't have a mark on it despite being knocked off by the collision. When I told the GEICO adjuster about this he just wrote the sucker off and bought me a new one.
> 
> ...


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

Looks almost exactly like the accident i had in May 02 except that i was hit on the drivers side. Not a scratch on me; BMW should really start playing up safety as Volvo does. She had to be going atleast 40mph.

My insurance (State Farm) vs her insurance (Allstate). I had State Farm deal directly with Allstate for totalling the car and i didn't have to pay a dime, not even deductible since it was her fault. It took about a week for that process to end and maybe another week for me to get a new car. 

As far as injury claim, i didn't go the hospital right after either. I went about a week or so later, then did physical therapy for a few weeks even though i didnt' really need to. It was just something i did so that i could increase my injury payment. I must say that Allstate was great to work with, no hassle, no pressure. I didn't get a lawyer, did it myself and was happy with the result. 

But for you, it sounds like Progressive with be a pain in the a$$ so i'd get a lawyer. If i had to do all over again, i'd probably get a lawyer so that i'd get more money. Just my $.02


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## rwg (May 10, 2002)

You don't need a lawyer. Geico has lawyers. You need to let your insurance company do its job. Progressive won't even try crap with them that they will give you as a matter of course. They will also insist on a full repair done by a quality shop - and they will guarantee it (or require that the shop does). Trying to do this yourself is just nuts.


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## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

Now the bastard's saying the light was green!??
Did you get a 3rd party witness? Unless the stoplight had a red light camera (the only time when you would WANT one there), it's going to turn into a he says this they say that kinda of match.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

I was rear ended in my old Honda, and I filed with my insurance company. Upon filing, I was notified that I would be charged my deductible if it was determined that I was at fault. In this case, it was cut and dry, no pay


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

magbarn said:


> *Now the bastard's saying the light was green!??
> Did you get a 3rd party witness? Unless the stoplight had a red light camera (the only time when you would WANT one there), it's going to turn into a he says this they say that kinda of match. *


He did admit that he went through the red light. I heard him tell the cop that he thought it had turned green. I have 2 witnesses who came forward and gave me their numbers. They verified that the SUV did indeed run a red light. There is no contest on that and even Progressive accepts their policy holder's guilt.


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## pmb1010 (Aug 26, 2002)

darchen said:


> *He did admit that he went through the red light. I heard him tell the cop that he thought it had turned green. I have 2 witnesses who came forward and gave me their numbers. They verified that the SUV did indeed run a red light. There is no contest on that and even Progressive accepts their policy holder's guilt. *


YOu are very lucky. Those witnesses will save your case. I had a guy run a red light and even though he told the cop that he "wasn't looking too well where he was going", all in all, I got held 50% responsible (no witnesses) after arbritration.

I did everything thru my insurance (State Farm). I had to pay my deductiable, SF told me that they got him to admit 90% fault (it would cost me $50 of my $500 deductiable), but with the police report and my well written report, that they (SF) could get 100% back for them, and me. Well, the arbritration panel decided differenlty. I couldn't believe it. SF (they are GREAT) said that even though I was willing to accept the 10% blame, they were not and would only charge me the $50 deductable level.

If they don't total your car, get it fixed, and trade it in on a new one. You will not get any depreciation value from the insurance company, only the costs to repair. For me, a car damaged this bad will never be the same. Take the depreciation loss as a result of things just not being fair in this world, cosider yourself and passengers lucky to drive in a safe car, and get a new one. The consequences could have been much worse.

Good luck.
Vic


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## dlloyd1975 (Sep 8, 2002)

First, I'm very happy that you're safe and sound as well as your passengers. New cars can be had, new people cannot. Your car did its job admirably in protecting its occupants. I also agree that BMW should start playing up its safety features as well. Did you know that both the 3 and 5 are rated "best picks" by IIHS? The fact that nobody had any serious injuries speaks volumes about the safety engineering of this vehichle.

Second, if Progressive is dicking you around, just go to Geico. I will probably pay $1200/year for my new bimmer. This is what you pay your insurance premiums for. Geico has a staff of lawyers at their disposal, let them take care of it. Additionally, you should not let Progressive dictate which auto body shop you go to. Go to your dealer, describe the situation to them and ask for their body shop recommendation. Somebody else screwed up your car, you need to have the final say on who fixes it. The 3 is pretty stout, but I bet that the impact still severely weakened the structural members of the car. Keep in mind that the force is channeled around the passenger compartment and through the frame, that leads to unseen damange, damage only people who are experienced with auto body work can see. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it came out totaled.

Just remember through all this that you and your passengers are OK. That's by far and away the most important thing.


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## Terry Kennedy (Sep 21, 2002)

Elwood said:


> *and THAT'S why I'm getting a Bimmer! I want to win the battle when those flippin' SUV's try to cream me. My current lil Mitsy would get creamed in a hit like that against an SUV. =/ *


Mitsubishi? Which one? I had a 1995 Eagle Talon (Mitsubishi Eclipse clone) which was T-boned by a tractor trailer running a string of red lights. It held up pretty well (all I got were some bruises). Photo here. This is the car I had before I bought the BMW - this was the second time the Talon was totalled in 101 miles (the first time a different tractor trailer decided to sideswipe the driver's door and points forward). I figured I'd take the second one as a sign that I needed a new car.


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

:yikes: Glad nobody was hurt badly


Maybe it's time to change insurance companies. 
I have found State Farm handles claims very quickly. I don't know about the newer companies like Geico, but I have heard bad stories about Progressive. Maybe you should check some out. :dunno:


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

Um, I think the problem is the other guy's insurance company.



tgravo2 said:


> *:yikes: Glad nobody was hurt badly
> 
> Maybe it's time to change insurance companies.
> I have found State Farm handles claims very quickly. I don't know about the newer companies like Geico, but I have heard bad stories about Progressive. Maybe you should check some out. :dunno: *


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

Here's an update: I called Geico (my ins. co.) and told them to take care of the claim themselves and collect the money for the repairs from Progressive like a lot of you suggested. They are going to tow it to Wagonwork on Monday. When the car gets fixed, I have to pay the deductible to the Wagonwork and Geico will reimburse me for that when they collect from Progressive. The best outcome for me will be Wagonwork declaring the car totalled and the ins. co. paying me the market value for it. If that's the case, how is the market value computed since it is less than 7 months old? Also, can I get the insurance company to pay me sales tax on top of the market value? 

Thanks a lot for all your advice!


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## AG (Apr 24, 2002)

darchen said:


> *The best outcome for me will be Wagonwork declaring the car totalled and the ins. co. paying me the market value for it. If that's the case, how is the market value computed since it is less than 7 months old? Also, can I get the insurance company to pay me sales tax on top of the market value?
> 
> Thanks a lot for all your advice! *


Since the car is less than one year old, you _might_ be able to get replacement value if the car is considered totaled. Check the Maryland state insurance laws and with Geico.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

darchen said:


> *If that's the case, how is the market value computed since it is less than 7 months old? Also, can I get the insurance company to pay me sales tax on top of the market value?
> *


My auto policy will pay out 100% of the purchase price plus taxes paid on a car that is less than 12 months old or has less than 12,000 miles (might be 15k...can't remember) if it's stolen or I total it. I'm not sure if they would pay out the difference if someone else totalled it for me.


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## darchen (Aug 13, 2002)

·clyde· said:


> *My auto policy will pay out 100% of the purchase price plus taxes paid on a car that is less than 12 months old or has less than 12,000 miles (might be 15k...can't remember) if it's stolen or I total it. I'm not sure if they would pay out the difference if someone else totalled it for me. *


Who is your insurance co.?

I picked the car using the European Delivery so I got a considerable discount. So even if I get paid the purchase price + taxes, I won't be able to order a comparable car at US prices and if I do Euro Delivery again, I may not get a car till Sept-Oct timeframe. I guess I need to ask Geico what they would do if the car is labeled totaled.


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## palooka666 (Apr 23, 2002)

In a situation like this, is it a good idea to talk to (and befriend) the body shop and hope that they take your concerns in to consideration when doing this type of work. The reality is that knowing someone in the business - they can make your job really easy... and not knowing or speaking up can make your situation that much harder. I've always been of the mindset (especially after all that i've learned from the boards) that once a car has any sort of severe body damage or frame damage - i'd be looking to get the value of the car and move on.



darchen said:


> *Here's an update: I called Geico (my ins. co.) and told them to take care of the claim themselves and collect the money for the repairs from Progressive like a lot of you suggested. They are going to tow it to Wagonwork on Monday. When the car gets fixed, I have to pay the deductible to the Wagonwork and Geico will reimburse me for that when they collect from Progressive. The best outcome for me will be Wagonwork declaring the car totalled and the ins. co. paying me the market value for it. If that's the case, how is the market value computed since it is less than 7 months old? Also, can I get the insurance company to pay me sales tax on top of the market value?
> 
> Thanks a lot for all your advice! *


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## sshuit (Apr 15, 2002)

I don't know about BMWUSA but BMW Canada has gap insurance included with their leases and financing arrangements. If a car < 1 year old is totalled you get FULL replacement costs :thumbup: 

Check it out.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

darchen said:


> *Who is your insurance co.?*


MetLife


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

·clyde· said:


> *MetLife *


   

I hate those (naughty word deleted) morons.


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