# Only 1,800 Miles and Car in Shop



## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

mattebury said:


> Does anybody know what these codes are, they are not the standard OBDII codes


These are NOT BMW trouble codes. Your dealer did NOT give you the codes you asked for. In fact they've given you nonsense.

You need the 4 digit alphanumeric code...Dont ask for a OBD code, you want the BMW DTC (diagnostic trouble code)...

They are not giving you the full story, this "the codes told us it needs reprograming" is utter BS.

There were specific fault codes, whcih they didnt give you. They likely ran a testplan and BMW came back and suggested a reprogram. You didnt get EU programming.....

The SA is lying to you, be aware that it is already adversarial since he is willing to mislead you.

IMO


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## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

anE934fun said:


> Meh. Similar things were posted in the middle of the HPFP trauma for the N54 gassers. BMW ultimately fixed the problem, and everyone moved on. CBU occurs on a smaller scale with the DI gassers and sales and resale values seem to be holding steady. There is a requirement for ~$700 in maintenance (walnut shell blasting) approximately every 45K miles, which wasn't a disclosed item going into the purchase, but it doesn't seem to have hurt sales of cars with the N5X engines. If BMW can get the CBU removal cost into the $700 area, I suspect CBU on d cars will be a similar non-issue.


Couple of differences: The N54 was used in many more vehicles than our 335d's engine which is in only 2 - BMW tends to only 'take care of things when there's a tons of squeaky wheels', a huge number of HPFP failures were occurring well in the beginning of the car's ownership - giving BMW a big incentive to fix vs. ours are mostly occurring past the original warranty, finally, our intakes seem to much more complex and much harder to clean so I have a sinking feeling we will never have a $700 equivalent fix for our CBU problems.

Pretty much the only solution is illegal for CA emission states and that's to block the stupid EGR system completely and ignore the SES light or find a shady hacker willing to disable the system and yet have the car's DME report to the smog check that everything is A-OK.


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## WArturoSee (Apr 7, 2014)

mattebury said:


> I was wondering the same thing . . .
> 
> But after reading this and combined with what my Service Advisor told me; paraphrasing, "The codes told us that we needed to update you software." It made no sense to me at the time but now I'm wondering if my car had the EU programming.
> 
> ...


mattebury, we had a similar problem with our 2014 328d at 325 miles, nine days after we took delivery. Check Engine Light (CEL) appeared on dash and took car to the local BMW dealer. When we picked up the car the final invoice listed 
"cause: SOFTWARE ERROR"
"Correction: ...w/ charger attached found FC 280D00 stored in the DME for Nitrogen Oxide Sensor before SCR CAT Converter, NOX signal: Signal Invalid. Also FC 273B00 stored for camshaft sensor, signal incorrect. Performed applicable test plans for faults stored. Checked lines and plug
Test Plan + wire and signal checks"
"Tech Notes: [shortened version] Connections at cam sensor...all reading correct values. Checked lines and plug connections at NOX sensor - found all OK. Found software update available and nec. to update complete vehicle. Programmed/encoded complete vehicle. Found all OK after software update."

Chapter 2
3 days and less than 40 miles later, CEL appears and we return to the same BMW dealer (they gave us a loaner this time). After 4 days, it was over a weekend, got the car back and the final invoice stated,
"cause: NOX sensor pre SCR CAT Defective"
"Correction: [shortened] performed test found FC 280D00 stored in the DDE for Nitrogen Oxide Sensor before SCR CAT Converter, NOX signal invalid. Performed test plan for fault stored...found all OK. Submitted Case #xxxxx629."
"Tech Notes:[shortened] Extracted UREA sample and tested, found OK. Found NOX Sensor defective and replaced. Road Test and perform another test w/ charger as per TC Case to ensure no faults return. All OK."

We have put 90 miles on the car since and, so far, all is good. Diablo2112 has had similar issues and seems to be knowledgeable about it. I was very discouraged having 2 CEL's inside of 400 miles on a new car. When problem first occurred and I heard the term "knocks" sensor, I researched on google and found the post by diablo2112 at the bimmerfest forum and I am thankful for that. To know that others have had a similar problem and it was fixed, makes me feel better. My wife and I are first time BMW owners and the info received here has been extremely helpful. I apologize for not knowing the meaning of such things as DDE, SCR, PUMA case, and if someone knowledgeable would share, I would appreciate it.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

WArturoSee said:


> mattebury, we had a similar problem with our 2014 328d at 325 miles, nine days after we took delivery. Check Engine Light (CEL) appeared on dash and took car to the local BMW dealer. When we picked up the car the final invoice listed
> "cause: SOFTWARE ERROR"
> "Correction: ...w/ charger attached found FC 280D00 stored in the DME for Nitrogen Oxide Sensor before SCR CAT Converter, NOX signal: Signal Invalid. Also FC 273B00 stored for camshaft sensor, signal incorrect. Performed applicable test plans for faults stored. Checked lines and plug
> Test Plan + wire and signal checks"
> ...


There ARE fault codes...273B is a cat code. 280D is a steering angle sensor (AFAIK...) Kudos for your SA (BMW Advisor  ) for documenting this for you.

PUMA is bmw's 'centralized technical troubleshooting' team. If a car is logged into a PUMA case, really smart guys help the dealer figure stuff out.

DDE is the Diesel Digital Electronics. Essentially the engine CPU. Every car has one, a gas BMW calls it a DME.

SCR= selective catalyst reductase. This it the 32% urea solution that is added in minute amounts to the exhaust prior to the exhaust entering the catalyst...the reaction in the catalyst of exhaust+urea+catalyst creates much lower emissions (ULEV)


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## WArturoSee (Apr 7, 2014)

ard said:


> There ARE fault codes...273B is a cat code. 280D is a steering angle sensor (AFAIK...) Kudos for your SA (BMW Advisor  ) for documenting this for you.
> 
> PUMA is bmw's 'centralized technical troubleshooting' team. If a car is logged into a PUMA case, really smart guys help the dealer figure stuff out.
> 
> ...


On my first invoice when the tech wrote, "..found FC 280D00 stored in the DME for Nitrogen Oxide Sensor.." it was actually DDE since my car is diesel? On our 2nd CEL service visit my understanding was the local dealer/tech contacted the BMW engineers in New Jersey for guidance, so that makes sense. 
Thanks for taking the time to help me learn.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

rmorin49 said:


> This is a very disturbing thread. Seems BMW still has not refined the diesel engines in use in the USA. Does not bode well for future sales or residual values. Is there a common theme for the issues that are being noted by 335d and 328d owners? What about 535d owners, are they seeing the same issues?


Just wanted to add a note to this thread...

The NOx sensors seem to be somewhat of a problem, on both older 335d/X5d M57 engines, where they were first used (first BMWs with SCR system) and the newer 328d (which is the first N47 engine with SCR.)

At least some 335d/X5d M57 with SCR seem to be coming up with codes when the engine gets into the 60K-80K mile range. Note that 80K is the design lifetime of those puppies, btw. I've personally had codes for "SCR efficiency" a couple times. That's the overall code that gets thrown when something in the SCR system goes wrong, and can be due to bad NOx sensor, DEF fluid flow, or SCR going bad. My 335d is at 78.5K miles, and I'm just waiting...

Some 328d's have been delivered with NOx sensors that have gone bad almost immediately. I suspect a design change or supplier change is at fault. They probably already know what the problem and fix is.


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## WArturoSee (Apr 7, 2014)

floydarogers said:


> Just wanted to add a note to this thread...
> 
> The NOx sensors seem to be somewhat of a problem, on both older 335d/X5d M57 engines, where they were first used (first BMWs with SCR system) and the newer 328d (which is the first N47 engine with SCR.)
> 
> ...


That was the case with our 328d, NOx Sensor replaced at 380 miles 2 weeks after taking delivery. Based on what others have posted, I trust we will have no further NOx Sensor issues. When you say "80K is the design lifetime of those puppies," are you referring to the motor or the SCR low emission CAT Converter exhaust system?


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

WArturoSee said:


> On my first invoice when the tech wrote, "..found FC 280D00 stored in the DME for Nitrogen Oxide Sensor.." it was actually DDE since my car is diesel? On our 2nd CEL service visit my understanding was the local dealer/tech contacted the BMW engineers in New Jersey for guidance, so that makes sense.
> Thanks for taking the time to help me learn.


Yeah, he wasnt thinking..DME is 98% of BMWs. But DDE is the diesel version. The "00" on the end is not used for most lookups, conversations, etc.

If you search "280D" and "BMW" and "code" you will not find this pointing to NOX.

Maybe a typo on his part? No 280x code is nox related...however:

289D Lambda Sensor Heater Post Cat- Bank 2 Function

Want to blow his mind? Ask him to check 280D and see if he mistyped and it really was 289D


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

And to add...

I lemoned a 2010 over pervasive 'diesel emissions faults' and 60+ days of 'sleeping over at the dealership'... BMW has had massive issues fine tuning the sensors, components and software for the early versions of this motor....

The 'design lifetime' is 120k in the USA as I recall, reading the CFR and US EPA regs. Again, from memory. The 'practical lifetime' may really be the federal warranty...


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## lpcapital (Mar 1, 2007)

Never mind...


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## WArturoSee (Apr 7, 2014)

Are you picky about brand/quality of diesel fuel? Do you use additives for lubricity or cetane boost? I live in San Diego County and I see you are a Californian also. I googled "diesel cetane" and found a Wikipedia article "Cetane Number" that states, "California diesel fuel has a minimum cetane of 53," the footnote link is, http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/fuels/dieselspecs.pdf. What are your thoughts about biodiesel as an additive, 2-5%. Are you familiar with the Diesel Fuel Lubricity Additives Study Results by Arlen Spicer (2007)?


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## lpcapital (Mar 1, 2007)

WArturoSee said:


> Are you picky about brand/quality of diesel fuel? Do you use additives for lubricity or cetane boost? I live in San Diego County and I see you are a Californian also. I googled "diesel cetane" and found a Wikipedia article "Cetane Number" that states, "California diesel fuel has a minimum cetane of 53," the footnote link is, http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/fuels/dieselspecs.pdf. What are your thoughts about biodiesel as an additive, 2-5%. Are you familiar with the Diesel Fuel Lubricity Additives Study Results by Arlen Spicer (2007)?


No, I put whatever is the cheapest in town.... Been doing so for the past 9 months and 25K miles I've had the car... I've been around cars for some time and my stance is that those things are just like Vitamins: they make for a very expensive piss (or exhaust)... But fuel additives topics in forum are probably up there in popularity with oil related topics...


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

lpcapital said:


> No, I put whatever is the cheapest in town.... Been doing so for the past 9 months and 25K miles I've had the car... I've been around cars for some time and my stance is that those things are just like Vitamins: they make for a very expensive piss (or exhaust)... But fuel additives topics in forum are probably up there in popularity with oil related topics...


The cheapest? I'd go with a station that pushes the most volume when it comes to diesel.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

WArturoSee said:


> ...When you say "80K is the design lifetime of those puppies," are you referring to the motor or the SCR low emission CAT Converter exhaust system?


I'm kind of guessing; however the CA warranty covers it until 70K so there is no reason to have one last less time. ISTR that I saw 80K in one of the diesel workbooks that have been posted; but I could easily be wrong.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

WArturoSee said:


> Are you picky about brand/quality of diesel fuel? Do you use additives for lubricity or cetane boost? I live in San Diego County and I see you are a Californian also. I googled "diesel cetane" and found a Wikipedia article "Cetane Number" that states, "California diesel fuel has a minimum cetane of 53," the footnote link is, http://www.arb.ca.gov/enf/fuels/dieselspecs.pdf. What are your thoughts about biodiesel as an additive, 2-5%. Are you familiar with the Diesel Fuel Lubricity Additives Study Results by Arlen Spicer (2007)?


Spicer is irrelevant if you think about it. A lot has changed since 2007. Lubricity is no longer an issue for the most part. BMW isn't using a new hyper high pressure fuel system and piezo injectors for the N-diesels. Hell, I don't think there has been more than one documented HPFP failure for US BMW diesels.

My only concern would be whether retail fuel has sufficient detergents to keep injectors deposit free.


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## WArturoSee (Apr 7, 2014)

GreekboyD said:


> The cheapest? I'd go with a station that pushes the most volume when it comes to diesel.


That makes sense to me. Before fueling the first time, I checked with a nearby Chevron station and was told they receive diesel a couple times a week, sometimes more, depending on amount pumped.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

lpcapital said:


> Never mind...


You are a NINJA with your editing skilz.:thumbup:

Just a comment- the OP here in this thread didnt get codes. The other guy did. And those codes resolve to seemingly related descriptors. I gave kudos to the latter SA for being honest in his written description....just pointed out that a simple typo could cause the 289D vs 280D discrepancy.

But on the bright side, meds have been stabilized so....

:angel:

A


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## mattebury (Feb 2, 2014)

And I'm really ticked at my SA for ignoring my e-mail(s), I'm thinking of just showing up at the dealership and being a PITA.


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