# Which car is better ZHP 330ci or Zhp 330i?



## Bayern-tr (Aug 25, 2004)

I'm looking to buy a 330ci with ZHP. A budy of mine from work just got a new 330ci with sport/lux pakg. He's had problems with his car left and right. The car pulls to the right, and the speakers in the doors rattle. He said he would not buy the coup again, only the 4 door. He thinks the 2 door is more prone to problems and that he 2 door has a tighter build b/c pf the 4 foors, etc. 

Personally I like the look of the coup better, but is there a quality difference between the 2 door and 4 door? Has anyone else experienced problems with the speakers in the doors of the coup? 

Lastly, is the BMW assist worth it?


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

I don't think quality between the coupe and the sedan are any different, but the sedan is definitely more structurally rigid than the coupe because of the door frames and the B pillar, as well as the fixed rear seats, if you get those (there was a recent post that referenced some numbers on structural rigidity and they were quite surprising). Here's a link to it : Link

Regarding the speakers, BMW stereos just plain suck and suck really bad, coupe, sedan, roadster or suv. You have to accept that going in or you'll be unhappy.

Regarding BMW assist, it's a purely personal choice. I didn't want it even if it was free. I don't like that afterthought shark fin antenna they put on the car to make it work.


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## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

How bad stereo or pulling to the right can be possible related to the car being a coupe or a sedan? Just think about it...
Personally, I would always choose 4 door. They are the same cars except one has more utility. Plus sedans look better than coupes


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

There is absolutely no quality difference between the coupe and the sedan. But if you are expecting it to be trouble free, you'd better rethink. There is a widespread of known problems on E46's (in general, not model specific) that some of them BMW has yet to resolve:

1. Rough idle / stalling
2. Ignition coil failure
3. Rev hesitation at 4k rpm
4. Speaker rattle
5. Passenger mirror intermittently does not tilt down in reverse
6. Radio fades in and out intermittently
7. Poor AM reception

Do a search and you can find lots of discussions about them. Depends on your luck, you may get none or any of the 7. If you don't mind, you'll still find it one of the most enjoyable car you've ever owned.

Regarding BMW Assist, I'm with Kurichan, I hate the looks of the shark fin, period.


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## Black330 (Nov 21, 2003)

choose whatever you want but the 4 door 330 is faster than the 2 door because of it's ligher weight


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## MicahO (Apr 19, 2004)

"Better" is subjective - depends on what the purchaser wants in a vehicle and is not quantifiable.

As far as other qualifiers - the sedan is going to be stiffer, the stiffest being a car with no sunroof (prolly have to order that special) and non-folding rear seats. As previously noted, this has to do with chassis rigidity and not rattly speakers or bad suspension alignment. The cars have very good levels of build quality, along with some known problems that could crop up. But as far as a rigid chassis, the coupe is still far more stiff and inflexible than MANY other cars on the market.

The ZHP started as a sedan-only option, a way to get a bit more pop in a four-door package. Some say it's only ///Marketing. If the ZHP sedan is only ///Marketing, then the ZHP coupe is EGREGIOUS ///Marketing. 

But they both absolutely kick a$s. If you think the coupe is better looking - you've answered your question - the coupe is "Better," for you.

(Assist is another item that depends on the buyer - I'd spend my money elsewhere. Oh, right, I did.)


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

1) IMO the coupe looks better then the sedan. If you have kids that are under 4, or regularly drive adults in the back who might not like climbing in and out of the coupe get the sedan, otherwise I would get the coupe.

2) You will have better visibility out of the coupe because you don't have the B pillar next to your head.

3) The stereo is a non-issue for me. At high volume levels the stereo sucks. Around town, I like driving with the windows down (unless it's really hot & humid) and the stereo off anyway and I like listening to the sound of the engine & rev matching etc. When I'm on the highway and just cruising, I like to shut the windows and then it's quiet enough to hear the stereo on low to mid volume levels where the sound is acceptable for a stock unit.

4) If you like to drive with the windows down, I think the coupe is more comfortable. On the four door if you just open up the front windows, the wind reflects off of the B pillar and blows right on the side of your head and directly at your ear, which gets annoying and is really loud. So what you have to do is open the rear windows and then it's comfortable. But my wife doesn't like that when we have the kids in the back seat  and she's allways making me just leave the front windows open or put the AC on. On the highway I agree, but around town - I like the windows down. So with the coupe, you can open the windows and the B pillar is way behind your head so it's more comfortable, plus you can vent open the rear windows, and I think there is less wind resistance that way. 

5) I haven't had any problems with my 330i since I got it March 04. The gearbox was notchy and a bit clunky in the beginning but as smoothed out a lot now, and it's a bit noisy but that seems to be normal and part of the design. So my car has been basically problem free since I got it.

I love the 330i. It's a perfect blend of sport, comfort and luxury. It's really a fantastic car. I do wish I could have gotten the 330Ci or the E46 M3 though, but I didn't because of the kids and I don't regret that because getting them & the car seats in and out of the 4 door is hard enough. I have a few plans for the future because I really want to get a coupe in 3 - 4 years. I'm either going to keep the 330i and get either A) a C6 or C6 Z06 vette, B) an E46 M3 or I'm going to sell the 330i and get an E90 coupe or an E90 M3 coupe. I hope that helps your decision a bit, good luck! Either way you'll be happy though.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

Wallenrod said:


> How bad stereo or pulling to the right can be possible related to the car being a coupe or a sedan? Just think about it...
> Personally, I would always choose 4 door. They are the same cars except one has more utility. Plus sedans look better than coupes


The chassis is noticeable stiffer.

:stupid:


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Right! The sedan is better because it is stiffer.


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## sky (Aug 22, 2003)

Bayern-tr said:


> Personally I like the look of the coup better, but is there a quality difference between the 2 door and 4 door?


I think you've answered your own question. If you like the look of the coupe
over the sedan, then get it. I don't think there is a quality difference between
them (they both will have some problems). Just a warning...if you have an 
infant, you be better off with the sedan. It's a real pain in the arse (back)
to put a baby seat in the back seat of a coupe. I KNOW.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

mkh said:


> There is absolutely no quality difference between the coupe and the sedan. But if you are expecting it to be trouble free, you'd better rethink. There is a widespread of known problems on E46's (in general, not model specific) that some of them BMW has yet to resolve:
> 
> 1. Rough idle / stalling
> 2. Ignition coil failure
> ...


Our 2004 325i sedan has not had any of these problems. Many of them are 330 or HK only.


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## JamesSpot (Mar 4, 2003)

*Same quality, more interior room in sedan*

Although the coupe has different body panels than the sedan, the quality of all BMW cars are identical. Even the sports wagon drives the same.

The sedan has more headroom with less windshield rake and easier access for passengers. The coupe has a few sedan options as standard equipment. The coupe has more of the sports car look.

If you have backseaters frequently or wear tall clothes, the sedan is for you. Handling, braking, and engines are the same.


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## Staszek (Jan 28, 2004)

Black330 said:


> choose whatever you want but the 4 door 330 is faster than the 2 door because of it's ligher weight


No its not
330 Coupe Unladen 3285 (3362) lbs 
330 Sedan Unladen 3285 (3362) lbs


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

Staszek said:


> No its not
> 330 Coupe Unladen 3285 (3362) lbs
> 330 Sedan Unladen 3285 (3362) lbs


 Still think the stiffness argument is the biggest crock. Unless you're going up against the likes of say Turner Motorsports, then maybe you have a case. Using the similar logic, the coupe has a lower CG and therefore must be better. :tsk:

Coupes look better, people tell me this all the time, and they have to be right :eeps:


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Elwood said:


> Still think the stiffness argument is the biggest crock. Unless you're going up against the likes of say Turner Motorsports, then maybe you have a case. Using the similar logic, the coupe has a lower CG and therefore must be better. :tsk:
> 
> Coupes look better, people tell me this all the time, and they have to be right :eeps:


You feel better now.


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## jdmfan13 (Jul 26, 2004)

Coupe until it's family time...

even then... hide it from the significant other!


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## sbono13 (Jul 27, 2004)

Elwood said:


> Coupes look better, people tell me this all the time, and they have to be right :eeps:


Coupes do look better mostly because of the body colored moldings and the flatter, wider-looking tail. Also, clear light indicators come standard with the coupes sports and performance packages. That said, I bought a sedan last month because the price difference was over $3000 for a similarly equipped car (about $1000 cheaper on invoice, but there was a $2400 incentive for sedans only). I used the savings to justify adding ZHP to the sedan. IMO, the ZHP 330i looks better than the non-ZHP 330ci, for the same price. Plus I got red gauge needles!


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## Staszek (Jan 28, 2004)

Elwood said:


> Still think the stiffness argument is the biggest crock. Unless you're going up against the likes of say Turner Motorsports, then maybe you have a case. Using the similar logic, the coupe has a lower CG and therefore must be better. :tsk:
> 
> Coupes look better, people tell me this all the time, and they have to be right :eeps:


I think the ZHP and M3 look better then the sedan, but I think there are some sweet looking sedans out there that look much better the coupes

Anyway as for the stiffness arguement, actually the Sedan can be ALOT stiffer then the coupe if there is no folding back seat
For the E46:
Sedan (w/o folding seats): 18000Nm/deg of torsion
Sedan (w/folding seats): 13000Nm
Sport wagon (w/folding seats): 14000Nm
Coupe (w/folding seats): 12500Nm
Convertible: 10500Nm


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## olmy (Jun 1, 2003)

Elwood said:


> Still think the stiffness argument is the biggest crock. Unless you're going up against the likes of say Turner Motorsports, then maybe you have a case. Using the similar logic, the coupe has a lower CG and therefore must be better. :tsk:
> 
> Coupes look better, people tell me this all the time, and they have to be right :eeps:


I agree. Even if the Sedan is comparatively more structurally rigid than the coupe, the E46 coupe is still structurally sound. I have the coupe (1500 trouble-free miles, btw), my bro has the sedan and they both feel fine to me.

In the other thread detailing the rigidity numbers, it was shown that the vast majority of the difference between the two cars is due to the folding rear seats that are standard in the coupe. By adding front and rear strut/shock tower braces (AC Schnitzer, etc.) much of this lost structural rigidity should be regained.


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

Elwood said:


> Coupes look better, people tell me this all the time, and they have to be right :eeps:


back in '00 when i test drove a 323ci (my first time in a bimmer, what an experience), i felt the coupe was a much nicer looking car - sportier, sleeker. the sedan looked a little taller and more conventional in comparsison. now, i'm not so sure... with the ZHP package the sedan looks fantastic. the more agressive M-style body cladding, big M wheels, and reduced height fix the things i didn't like about the sedan look. i've also seen ZHP coupes, and they don't have quite the same impact on me as the ZHP sedans. a lot also depends on the color of the car... i think that is a bigger factor in the overall look than whether it is sedan or coupe.

now if we're talking about the M3, that's a whole different bag of chips. neither ZHP can touch it in looks (to say nothing of performance).


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Frank Rizzo said:


> The coupe is much easier to get in and out of. The doors are longer so you have a much wider berth to park yer arse. The sedan looks too grocery-getter for me.


Hey, I just went and got groceries in my sedan and I didn't have any trouble getting IN or OUT! I guess it helps to not be a fat ass?  :eeps:


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## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

inline6 said:


> You can debate which looks better externally, though the coupe seems to be somewhat favored, however, I claim there can be no dispute about the interior. The coupe kills the sedan because of the longer doors. With the seats back a bit you really feel like a king in that cockpit, it is just magnificent. Whenever I get a loaner sedan I feel like a rat in a cage, even with the seats back.
> 
> Now, there are also some minor, yet very practical issues about the exterior which you never hear discussed. Here again the coupe kills the sedan. This is a fact, anyone who disputes it is in denial. You see all those external bits on the sedan - the moldings, the black B pillar fascias, the large exposed rubber seals around the windows? Guess what? Every piece of that crap will give you massive trouble in a year or two time. The black will all fade and look like poop. The rubber will perish and die. The moldings will go whitish and look like crap (but that's ok actually, seeing as they looked like crap from day 1). And you guessed it, the coupe has absolutely none of that garbage and the corresponding problems. If you don't believe me check out some sedans in a few parking lots - look at the window rubber and the B pillar fascia - better take a sick bag with you. Now look at a coupe... Nuff said.
> 
> Having said all that, fear not, for they are both brilliant cars. If you need 4 doors, or prefer the sedan for whatever reason, get it, it is a totally killer car.


Well, I have no interest in coupe for many many reasons but one of them is that I absolutely hate these long doors in the coupe. To me they are ridiculous and completely impractical. So as you can see to each their own. 
I actually don't get why they introduced ZHP in the coupe. If I was in a market for a BMW coupe I would no doubt pick an M3. Even complete stripper before I would consider a loaded 330ci. Now 330cd would make a difference if it was available in the US. 
I really wished they offered E46 M3 4 door. This would have been my car and I would be fine with spending more on it. What a shame. Are you listening BMW???!!!!


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## inline6 (Jun 1, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> Wow you convinced me with your unbiased analysis. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


  I saw two very close friends go through this crap with their sedan exteriors falling apart and I've seen heaps of sad looking examples around the place. Black cars seem to show it the most, due to the contrast I guess. I did some shuttle service to the auto body shop for one friend and the stories they told me there were scary. Those B Pillar fascias are a disaster, the body shop claims to be replacing them at an unbelievable rate. He showed me dozens of crappy old pieces he had lying around. Seems like everyone with an older sedan is getting them replaced. If you have an older sedan you might want to compare that piece to a new one. You could be surprised by the difference. That detail work transformed my friend's black car - it looks almost brand new again now.

The bottom line is, if you have the sedan you are well advised to keep it well waxed and gummifoobared (whatever.... ) But, most importantly, relax - the ZHP sedan is a superb looking car, I don't dispute that for one second.

Re long doors. No doubt some sedan owners would find the coupe doors odd to open and close, but I can't imagine you could criticise the interior appearance of those doors. They really are sublime. I love the solid feel of the coupe doors too, the sedan doors feel like kitchen cabinet doors flapping in the breeze in comparison. Personally, I quite enjoy swinging the door out all the way when I get the chance. My door's bigger than yours, nah nah ne nah nah... :bigpimp:


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## Staszek (Jan 28, 2004)

inline6 said:


> You can debate which looks better externally, though the coupe seems to be somewhat favored, however, I claim there can be no dispute about the interior. The coupe kills the sedan because of the longer doors. With the seats back a bit you really feel like a king in that cockpit, it is just magnificent. Whenever I get a loaner sedan I feel like a rat in a cage, even with the seats back.
> 
> Now, there are also some minor, yet very practical issues about the exterior which you never hear discussed. Here again the coupe kills the sedan. This is a fact, anyone who disputes it is in denial. You see all those external bits on the sedan - the moldings, the black B pillar fascias, the large exposed rubber seals around the windows? Guess what? Every piece of that crap will give you massive trouble in a year or two time. The black will all fade and look like poop. The rubber will perish and die. The moldings will go whitish and look like crap (but that's ok actually, seeing as they looked like crap from day 1). And you guessed it, the coupe has absolutely none of that garbage and the corresponding problems. If you don't believe me check out some sedans in a few parking lots - look at the window rubber and the B pillar fascia - better take a sick bag with you. Now look at a coupe... Nuff said.
> 
> Having said all that, fear not, for they are both brilliant cars. If you need 4 doors, or prefer the sedan for whatever reason, get it, it is a totally killer car.


My car is 4 years old with over 100k and my moldings are perfect my rubber seals are great, you just have to take care of them. And since i have a door frame and you want to talk about reliablity lets talk about it down the road when your window seals start to go and see whose car leaks first lol!


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## inline6 (Jun 1, 2003)

Staszek said:


> My car is 4 years old with over 100k and my moldings are perfect my rubber seals are great, you just have to take care of them. And since i have a door frame and you want to talk about reliablity lets talk about it down the road when your window seals start to go and see whose car leaks first lol!


You park in the sun much? How often do you wax it?
But yeh, I go to jump into my car after a hot day this summer and some insane item almost rips my head off. I'm like what the f***?? The crappy interior seal is hanging half way down my window! What a joke. I say to the dealer, this is just gonna happen again right, he says, nah, should last for ages, we have good luck with these. Yeh, right!!!! I'm gonna be learning *all* about rubber glue when my warranty expires. Don't you just love your Bimmer?


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## Staszek (Jan 28, 2004)

inline6 said:


> You park in the sun much? How often do you wax it?
> But yeh, I go to jump into my car after a hot day this summer and some insane item almost rips my head off. I'm like what the f***?? The crappy interior seal is hanging half way down my window! What a joke. I say to the dealer, this is just gonna happen again right, he says, nah, should last for ages, we have good luck with these. Yeh, right!!!! I'm gonna be learning *all* about rubber glue when my warranty expires. Don't you just love your Bimmer?


Park in the sun during the day. Car is garaged at night and weekends unless I am at the beach. Wax the car 4 times a year, but the rubber I used armorall on every few weeks.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Hey, I just went and got groceries in my sedan and I didn't have any trouble getting IN or OUT! I guess it helps to not be a fat ass?  :eeps:


ooooh..defensive.....sorry - struck a nerve. 
www.cortislim.com

Don't forget the added benefit that sedans look good with the child seats in the back too.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

> Which car is better ZHP 330ci or Zhp 330i?


There's no such thing. You need to answer one question, do you need 2 dr or 4 dr ?


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