# Nor Cal's First all Euro Show with CASH prizes!



## s4play (May 31, 2002)

Hey Guys,

Up in Nor Cal there has never really been an all EURO car show except for New Dimensions every year which left us BMW owners out to dry but now here is a chance for all of us to represent and show what BMW owners are all about. A few of my friends are throwing a huge car show on July 20th. The twist here is that we have secured a very unusual but very nice venue at a local college in Cupertino. We have arranged for Synergy to do the live entertainment all day and have CASH prizes in each category including BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus! I talked to them and asked for a separate E46 M3 class and if we can get at least 10 M3's signed up under me, then we have a class!

To get in this show though everyone MUST be pre-registered ASAP since we are closing the registration soon due to space limitations. Most of you know me already but I have secured us a small discount if you register with me. All I need from you is an e-mail with your name, address, phone, car, model, small list of mods and then PayPal me $20 to cover the entry fee and you're in!

Another way to get the discount if you don't want me to take care of it is to go to their website to register but under club affiliation, just put down my name or initials RKO and you will automatically get the discount.

www.evowerks.com

I am very careful when I promote a show since I don't want to waste you time with small weak shows but I promise this one to be very big. EuroTuner's Mike S. is doing an all BMW caravan from down south and big names such as Streetwise will be there. After BimmerFest, this is the next big gathering of BMW's and I want all the top names to come out and represent. I know Tuningwerks has some really nice M3's so please e-mail me if you want to enter.

Remember to get entered, you must pre-register so either e-mail me with your info or register online with my name under Club Affiliation and you will get the discount.

Any question, drop me an e-mail at [email protected]

I will be there for sure and you can expect my M3 to be ready.

later,
rick
"s4play"


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

Has "Euro" been redefined to mean "tasteless and excessive"? Or perhaps "Euro" now encompasses what the spoiled children of wealthy parents do to their cars.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Rice = Tasteless mods on Japanese econoboxes.

Euro = Rice on German semi-luxury cars.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *Has "Euro" been redefined to mean "tasteless and excessive"? Or perhaps "Euro" now encompasses what the spoiled children of wealthy parents do to their cars. *


I may not be into the car show scene, but there is no reason to attack this post. Move on. I don't think the spoiled child argument works. Most guys there aren't 17, s4play is a 26 y.o. engineer :dunno:


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> I may not be into the car show scene, but there is no reason to attack this post. Move on. I don't think the spoiled child argument works. Most guys there aren't 17, s4play is a 26 y.o. engineer :dunno: *


That makes absolutely no sense. How can adults be into doing stupid shit like this to their cars? Do they have REALLY small penises or what? Begging for attention with flashy useless mods is no different from wearing outrageous, outlandish clothing or having a purple mohawk. It screams "Look at me! I'm insecure!!".

Some people need to learn that blue bulbs don't bring happiness. They only lighten your wallet.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Why is there a Lexus category at an all-Euro show?

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> That makes absolutely no sense. How can adults be into doing stupid shit like this to their cars? Do they have REALLY small penises or what? Begging for attention with flashy useless mods is no different from wearing outrageous, outlandish clothing or having a purple mohawk. It screams "Look at me! I'm insecure!!".
> 
> Some people need to learn that blue bulbs don't bring happiness. They only lighten your wallet. *


Did you ever notice the black E39 M5 that sometimes parked on the street on 19th and E (near GW) that had clears and blue bulbs in the turn signals? Made my stomach turn every time I saw it. Unsurprisingly, the driver was a young GW student who I will wager did not purchase the car with his own hard-earned.


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## s4play (May 31, 2002)

*Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*

I was just posting this for those interested in seeing a nice car show...that's all! jeesh....

I agree there are tasteless cars out there but I don't think anyone would dare to say that a Lorinser Tuned Benz is ugly or a lowered M3 with some nice Hamann body mods are ricey.

Give it a break okay....your stupid rice comments are getting old.

that's like people in grade school calling me "*****" or something.

you are the one sounding retarded calling us names when I only posted on here to get some info out to people.

Don't like what I say, then crawl back into the hole you came from  

People who know me will say otherwise but I'm just a guy who loves cars. :angel:

late,
rick


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> I may not be into the car show scene, but there is no reason to attack this post. Move on. I don't think the spoiled child argument works. Most guys there aren't 17, s4play is a 26 y.o. engineer :dunno: *


Nate, some people just *DON'T get it*... They think they're some sort of "_know it all_". In the end, I think they just have a hard time living in society, where people ARE entitled to their own opinion/taste... Talk about spoiled!!! :tsk: So much for *TO EACH HIS OWN, LIVE AND LET LIVE*, etc...


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



s4play said:


> *I agree there are tasteless cars out there but I don't think anyone would dare to say that a Lorinser Tuned Benz is ugly or a lowered M3 with some nice Hamann body mods are ricey.*


VERY ricey. And very tasteless. And rather unattractive. And IMPAIR the car's performance level (yes IMPAIR, NOT ENHANCE). No one with any taste does those mods. Just flashy "look at me"-types. The same guys who have to have the latest whatever so taht they can "impress" their friends and, supposedly, the "ladies". And I'm sure you wear designer sunglasses and an expensive watch and all your clothes have their labels on the outside as well.



> *
> People who know me will say otherwise but I'm just a guy who loves cars. :angel:
> *


If you truly loved cars, you wouldn't do that to them. Have some respect.


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

ALEX325i said:


> *
> 
> Nate, some people just DON'T get it... They think they're some sort of "know it all". In the end, I think they just have a hard time living in society, where people ARE entitled to their own opinion/taste... Talk about spoiled!!! :tsk: So much for TO EACH HIS OWN, LIVE AND LET LIVE, etc... *


Spoken like someone young. In time you'll learn that there are wrong answers and bad ideas. It's not the touchy-feely world of school where we wouldn't dare harm your self-esteem.

I guarantee that when YOU see certain people walking down the street or certain cars going down the road, you make disparaging comments to yourself about them based on their taste, looks, upkeep, whatever. But if you tell me that YOU never judge anything you see, I will call bullshit. The facts of life are that everyone is judged. Regularly. You may decide that YOU don't care. But that doesn't change the facts.

Oh, but this is an opportunity to try to slam me for "intolerence" so go for it.


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



s4play said:


> *I was just posting this for those interested in seeing a nice car show...that's all! jeesh....
> 
> I agree there are tasteless cars out there but I don't think anyone would dare to say that a Lorinser Tuned Benz is ugly or a lowered M3 with some nice Hamann body mods are ricey.
> 
> ...


Hey Rick,

While I'm not into the car show scene myself (and except for a CAI, my cars are bone stock), I have nothing against those who are. Don't mind the "naysayers". They'll always be there...


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



TD said:


> *
> 
> VERY ricey. And very tasteless. And rather unattractive. And IMPAIR the car's performance level (yes IMPAIR, NOT ENHANCE). No one with any taste does those mods. Just flashy "look at me"-types. The same guys who have to have the latest whatever so taht they can "impress" their friends and, supposedly, the "ladies". And I'm sure you wear designer sunglasses and an expensive watch and all your clothes have their labels on the outside as well.
> *


Body mods don't necessarily impair performance. While, I do think than Hamman body kits are extreme, some of them do have benefits. Was it R&T that looked at the Hamman Z8 and F360? Hamman added a lot of high speed stability to the F360 by using diffusers and tunneling. I thought it looked worse than stock, but if it helps :dunno:

The point is, even if you dislike this "culture," this post wasn't asking any opinions. Just let it go for people who are into it.


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Body mods don't necessarily impair performance. While, I do think than Hamman body kits are extreme, some of them do have benefits. Was it R&T that looked at the Hamman Z8 and F360? Hamman added a lot of high speed stability to the F360 by using diffusers and tunneling. I thought it looked worse than stock, but if it helps :dunno:
> 
> The point is, even if you dislike this "culture," this post wasn't asking any opinions. Just let it go for people who are into it. *


Hundreds of pounds of plastic IMPROVES performance?!?!?!? And like these cars are lacking in high speed stability all the way up to their top speeds? I don't think so. They are rock-solid stable at 140. That's ridiculous.


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



nate328Ci said:


> *
> The point is, even if you dislike this "culture," this post wasn't asking any opinions. Just let it go for people who are into it. *


EXACTLY!!!

Oh, but wait I sec... I'm the one who's a prick... LOL!!! Thank God I'm not a PREJUDICED one...


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## s4play (May 31, 2002)

*okay guys, I will be mature and let this thread move on*

since my initial intention is not to start a war on ricey cars! wtf!

For TD, I can tell you are one of those track junkies by your sig file and that I'm talking to a wall. Funny thing is you'd be surprised how much I do race and that I actually am an Instructor at some of the race schools.....haha

You just proved my point that you have no taste calling those cars ricey! So I suppose big brake kits from Lorinser are useless and "impair" performance like you said huh.....(LOL)

so can we get back onto the original topic and leave this TD guy out for now....

thanks for your support Alex and Nate....I thought these old losers were only on Roadfly but I guess I was wrong....

rk


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



nate328Ci said:


> *
> The point is, even if you dislike this "culture," this post wasn't asking any opinions. Just let it go for people who are into it. *


Nate-

I could come up with a rather long list of things that you have mocked. Environmentalists come to mind immediately (since we had a related thread earlier today). Why doesn't this same rule apply to your approach to those you don't agree with in non-automotive areas?

You're all for arguing for the fun of it when the topic is one that interests you or that you feel strongly about but then you slam others as not being open-minded when they do the same thing.

Arguing whether mods are ghetto or not is no different than arguing politics except the mod argument is boarderline ON-topic.


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## Guest (May 31, 2002)

*Re: okay guys, I will be mature and let this thread move on*



s4play said:


> *
> thanks for your support Alex and Nate....I thought these old losers were only on Roadfly but I guess I was wrong....
> *


I love how anyone who does not care to do tasteless shit like this to their car is automatically "old".


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## DaveN323i (Jan 17, 2002)

TD, a lot of the discussion here seems to center around what constitutes good taste. Someone's Michaelangelo may be somebody else's trailer trash. In the end, it is all subjective.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Damn TD, you must not like nice cars or have no taste....*



TD said:


> *
> 
> Hundreds of pounds of plastic IMPROVES performance?!?!?!? And like these cars are lacking in high speed stability all the way up to their top speeds? I don't think so. They are rock-solid stable at 140. That's ridiculous. *


Go read the article, it is all documented.

I do agree that Hamann kits are outlandish, but some of them do improve things. Take a look at the rear of the Hamann Ferrari, it is styled for aerodynamics. Things like Hamann spoilers on auto 323s are for looks, but there is serious stuff.

I don't think that it adds much weight, if any, you are simply replacing factory parts. They might even be fiberglass or CF and lighter...


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

clyde325xiT said:


> *... If you're worried about damaging it, I think that you would probably find it more dangerous driving to and from the event than actually participating in it.*


That's kinda like what I tell my mother when I go on certain dive trips (and take the "crappy" car ). She's always worried about my deep dives. I usually tell her that the drive to the Keys is far more riskier than the dives themselves (Alligator Alley  - my license is the one at risk, really  )



> *
> You would probably have more fun with it if you did, though.  Seriously, it's your car...do what you want with it and don't do what you don't want. *


No question about it. I'll be taking the 325i soon. I mean, if my travel schedule doesn't get in the way as usual...


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

I wish my "crappy car" was a 325...


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *I wish my "crappy car" was a 325... *


As you can probably tell, I didn't really mean that. I LOVE my 325i just as much as I do my M3... Seriously... :thumb:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

ALEX325i said:


> *
> 
> As you can probably tell, I didn't really mean that. I LOVE my 325i just as much I do my M3... Seriously... :thumb: *


I'm aware, just feel like whining.


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

I don't know why I'm posting this, but first, there's nothing wrong with modding your car. It's your car — do what you want to with it. But don't start bashing people because they do it. I'm really sick of reading this crud. Especially when some people start telling people that they don't know any better because they're too young. I'm older that most of you, and my car is modded. Sorry. Does it negatively affect my performance? I don't give a flying fatootie. It's what I want to do. I'm sorry to say this, but BMWs aren't perfect for everyone right from the factory, much as some on this board would like to (for some strange reason) believe.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

clyde325xiT said:


> *
> I'm sure that Nappa leather really helps the M3's performance numbers too. As a matter of fact, here's a little list of some of the performance enhancing features or options that could come on my M3, if were to order one:
> Yup, that just about settles it&#8230;nothing on the E46 is there for cosmetic or luxury purposes. Everything is pure performance enhancing Viagra, baby! It's all there to make it go faster, turn harder and stop shorter. I talked myself into it&#8230;where do I sign?  *


*

Please shut up 

The E46 M3 is a street car, and luxury and convenience features are to expected  BMW M cars have NEVER been stripped down cars, the E30 M3 had a lot of luxury items to. Don't believe me? Ask my driving instructor and another instructor about the 250lb weight difference between the stripped model and the one with full interior and leather seats 

I assume that you have never seen an E46 M3 do it's business on the track  

All this E46 bashing is pissing me off. You doubt the performance, go fawking drive one at a track. Maybe if you are driving a jacked up wagon with open diffs everwhere you will never understand :tsk:*


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

clyde325xiT said:


> *I don't know the M3s as well as some other people here. For all I know, those 19 inchers are as light as a pound of feathers and as strong as Superman, allowing the car to accelerate faster, stop quicker and corner harder than with any other wheel known to man. What I've learned about wheels over the years, though, is that after reaching 16-17 inches the performance benefits drop off very rapidly as they grow any larger. *


The 19" M3 wheels are FORGED



> M Double Spoke *forged and polished alloy wheels*, 19 x 8 front, 19 x 9.5 rear; 225/40ZR - 19 front performance tires, 255/35ZR - 19 rear performance tires


Thus, they are lighter and stronger than the 18s. Performance is increased with the 19" option.

Your sarcasm is foolish here


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *I wish my "crappy car" was a 325... *


328 > 325


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> 328 > 325  *


Mystikal: Nate's got a point...


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Please shut up
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone was bashing the E46 M3 in this thread. Like Alex, I think you missed the point of Clyde's post. It wasn't to slam the M3 for its luxury acoutrements, or argue that the new M3 is somehow more luxurious than prior M cars. Instead, he was merely pointing out that just because something is an option on the M3 doesn't mean that it is designed to (or actually does) enhance performance.

I don't know whether the 19" wheels do or not. I don't know how much they weigh. I don't know whether, even if they weigh less than the 18"s, the fact that the weight of the rim is farther from the wheel center gives them a higher polar moment of inertia. I don't know if the weight increase, if it exists, is negligible. I don't know whether the increased roll stiffness from the shorter tire sidewall produces any handling benefit. No one who has posted so far knows the answer to any of these questions, either, as far as I can tell. So until someone posts some hard evidence, we're all just whistling Dixie.

I *do* know that the vast majority of 19" wheels do weigh more than their 17 or 18" counterparts, and that this weight disadvantage makes them perform worse than smaller wheels. I also know that most people who put these giant cart wheels on their cars do so in spite of, rather than because of, the effect on performance.

I think that's silly, too. But if that's what you want to do, it's your car.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

JST said:


> *
> 
> I don't think anyone was bashing the E46 M3 in this thread. Like Alex, I think you missed the point of Clyde's post. It wasn't to slam the M3 for its luxury acoutrements, or argue that the new M3 is somehow more luxurious than prior M cars. Instead, he was merely pointing out that just because something is an option on the M3 doesn't mean that it is designed to (or actually does) enhance performance.
> 
> ...


Bashing the convenience featrues is what I got form his post. FYI, the E46 M3 is still available in a relatively stipped form and there are few major luxury features that were added to the new M3.

Sorry, if I am a little touchy on this subject, but I think there is a lot of BS and misinformation spread about the current E46 :thumb:

And, I am *fairly* certain that the 19s are lighter than the 18s. That alone will have an impact on ride quality, handling, etc.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Bashing the convenience featrues is what I got form his post. FYI, the E46 M3 is still available in a relatively stipped form and there are few major luxury features that were added to the new M3.
> 
> ...


I don't think they are lighter...but I'm pretty sure that they ae not heavier.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> I don't think they are lighter...but I'm pretty sure that they ae not heavier. *


I had always thought they were lighter (maybe not by much) :dunno:

forged :dunno:


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

evosport.com sells both. They quote 26.4 pounds for the front 18s and 26.9 pounds for the front 19s.

I'd assume the rears are probably a full pound heavier on the rears, because the rear 19s are also wider than the 18s. Something like 28 pounds for 18s and 29 for 19s.

(They're both x8s in front; 18x9 vs. 19x9.5 rears)


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *evosport.com sells both. They quote 26.4 pounds for the front 18s and 26.9 pounds for the front 19s.
> 
> I'd assume the rears are probably a full pound heavier on the rears, because the rear 19s are also wider than the 18s. Something like 28 pounds for 18s and 29 for 19s.
> 
> (They're both x8s in front; 18x9 vs. 19x9.5 rears) *


Eh, I always thought they were lighter. I guess I was wrong :dunno:

Although, .5 lb is a very small difference...


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Eh, I always thought they were lighter. I guess I was wrong :dunno:
> 
> Although, .5 lb is a very small difference... *


I noticed you latched on to the 1/2 lb front wheel weight diff and chose to ignore the 1 lb rear wheel weight diff.

I don't remember the multiplier, but 1 lb of wheel weight is equilavalent to many pound of "regular" weight (ie a sack of potatoes in the trunk). atyclb referenced 1/2 lb more weight on the fronts and 1lb more weight on the rears. That totals 1 lb up front and 2 lbs in the rear. While still not all that much, that total of 3 lbs increased wheel weight is equal to something like 20 lbs inside the car. Not a lot, but not nothing either.

Why don't you guys RE-READ JST's last post. Read it like you were going to be tested on it and pay attention to what he is saying. You argue points that are not there. And if you read and understand what he's saying, there really isn't anything to argue about.

And you sure are touchy about perceived (but often non-existent) E46 slams. No one is slamming the E46 here. But somehow you've read such a slam into this thread. Relax.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> I noticed you latched on to the 1/2 lb front wheel weight diff and chose to ignore the 1 lb rear wheel weight diff.
> 
> ...


Listen up, chief...

I WAS wrong about he wheel weights, I did think that the forged 19s were lighter. Sorry if I "ignored" as you put it the 1lb difference as that was "assumed" by atyclb.

And, mocking every luxury feature on the E46 M3 sounds like a slam to me, sorry. It just sounded like clyde was picking up the E46 bashing where you left off. I disagree with about every assertion you make about my car and 330s and can't understand your spite for them. Sorry, maybe I was a little touchy, but his post was rediculous....


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## Guest (Jun 3, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Listen up, chief...
> 
> ...


Clyde has an E46. He likes it. But he was using accurate logci to respond to the faulty logic that implied that, if it's on the M3, it must have a performance benefit. This argument was used to support 19 inch rims, as in "You can get them on the M3 so they MUST improve performance." Well, many of us know that 19s do NOT improve performance. But it was Clyde that came up with the laundry list to point out the fallacy of the "it's on the M3 so it must improve performance" argument. If you're following me so far, you can see how that's NOT a slam on the E46 M3. Hell, many of the items on that list are on the E36 M3. That wasn't his point. Again, his point was to shoot down the pro-19 inch rim argument.

Then, as JST pointed out, many people get 19s IN SPITE OF their effect on performance and consider it a worthwhile tradeoff. He and I (and Clyde) obviously don't agree.

But this is about 19 inch rims, NOT E46 M3s.

And since it was Cyde (not me) posting that list, why were you so quick to man the Pro-E46 battle stations?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

ALEX325i said:


> *
> 
> Mystikal: Nate's got a point...  *


Especially if it is slighly modded :bigpimp:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> And since it was Cyde (not me) posting that list, why were you so quick to man the Pro-E46 battle stations? *


Because many are quick to bash a great car for completely erroneous reasons.

Again, I concur that 19s are too big, but was wrong about the wheel weights.

Again, maybe i was too quick to respond to that, but the comments were reduculous. For each of his items, I could name a benefit for track days....


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

Not that I want to stretch this even more, but let me clarify something here...

My very first reply to Clyde's comments (i.e. 19's) - he and I agreed upon the obvious: to each his own - was simply to illustrate that while there are 19's that do NOT add in performance (as well as a bunch of other mods), that specific "mod" should NOT be considered/labeled silly without some thought... Otherwise, E46 M3 (could've used any other car that comes with 19's to make my point) drivers in Europe would be silly, as that's the standard wheels there (although I think ATYCLB mentioned on some other thread that 19's are also an option in Europe, not 100% sure)...

Anyway, there are HEAVY 19's (and 17's, 18's, etc), that don't do any good, but I don't really think that's the case with the OEM wheels... I mean, if THAT was the case, why the heck would BMW put'em on the CSL??? :dunno: After all, the whole idea behind the CSL (as the name implies) is getting rid of unnecessary weight, right?

As a side comment, BMWNation once published the following WRT the OEM 19's on the CSL: _"The 19" wheel and tire combo allows for maximum stability and handling"_


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

19s are still only an option in Europe/UK, but EVERYONE seems to get the 19's on the main UK message board.

They enjoyed mocking our inability to order the 19s until we also got the option added earlier this year.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Bashing the convenience featrues is what I got form his post. FYI, the E46 M3 is still available in a relatively stipped form and there are few major luxury features that were added to the new M3.
> 
> ...


If I'm not mistaken, the 19" M3 wheels are FORGED, as in STIFFER than the 18" wheels so that they'll take a lot more abuse, weigh less AND beg for more abuse.

Unfortunately, the few M3 owners that I've met with 19" OEM rims have no clue. When I asked about the wheels all they can tell me is "look at my pretty Brembo brakes! Look at my b*tchen 5,000 stereo system! And my completely useless mods like Dinan Strutbrace and lowering springs!" :dunno:

No one has really CONFIRMED that these 19" wheels do INDEED weigh less.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *Again, maybe i was too quick to respond to that, but the comments were reduculous. For each of his items, I could name a benefit for track days.... *


Let me see if I understand...for each of the item that I listed, you can name a track day benefit? I won't ask you to name a real track day benefit of each of the things that I listed, but if you think you can, I'd like to hear just one: Vanitey mirrors...what purpose do they serve at the track?

Yeah, the list was ridiculous. It wasn't meant to be taken any more seriously than to illustrate my point that just because something is on (or can be ordered on) an M3 doesn't mean that it will help its performance or serve anything other than a cosmetic purpose. It was sarcastic. I thought that the sheer excessiveness of it would make that clear. I guess that wasn't clear enough for everyone. Oh well...live and learn.

Besides, the off ramp that took us to this argument was that I was thumbing my nose at people that put heavy 19 inch wheels on the "lesser" E46 cars, which is something I think that we agree on. Unfortunately, I wasn't specific enough about that originally. One thing led to another and now here we are. I'm not going to shut up until I run out of things to say or fund better ways to waste little bits of time, but this horse is dead and we ought to stop beating it.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

clyde325xiT said:


> *
> 
> Let me see if I understand...for each of the item that I listed, you can name a track day benefit? I won't ask you to name a real track day benefit of each of the things that I listed, but if you think you can, I'd like to hear just one: Vanitey mirrors...what purpose do they serve at the track?
> 
> *


The vanity mirrors are there to help you make sure that you have your helmet and neck brace aligned properly. 

It was an exageration that EVERY thing you listed has a direct benefit. Many of them do. You may not think that A/C is a benefit, but *I* use it all the time, ever sat out on the pavement when it's 95 under the Texas sun with a helmet, brace, pants, and gloves on? Did you know that the M Mobility kit comes with an AIR COMPRESSOR? We used it to play with air pressures on the M5, then the 330 this weekend. "you gotta put the windows down at the track" Yes, you do put the windows down on the track. PDC? Ever notice that race cars always need a guide to help back out? The 330 had this feature and *I* used it. Many of them do have benefits and I thought it was over the line to come up with a list of attempted pithy comments that didn't make any sense

sorry. You are right, the horse is dead :thumb:


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