# Cool Air Intake Upgrade for M 3s



## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Did anyone upgrade their airintake system to a cool air intake system, any suggestions on which one would be appropriate for our 01+ M3

The rave on this board is Gruppe M....Any others??? please posts pics and links...thanks :thumbup:


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

There's the Dinan which is a fair bit more money. (And Dinan grossly overestimates the power benefits.)

And there's the Hamann, which reportedly makes LESS power than stock.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I hope you realize that the E46 M3 comes fromt eh factory with a cold air intake. Air enters the airbox from tow sources. One is behind the grill, in front of the radiator. The other is from the driver's side brake duct.

The Gruppe M looks nice, is very expensive, and has not been proven in anyone else's hands other than Gruppe M to produce anything other than a lighter wallet.

There is no quick and simple HP in these engines PERIOD.


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> There's the Dinan which is a fair bit more money. (And Dinan grossly overestimates the power benefits.)
> 
> And there's the Hamann, which reportedly makes LESS power than stock.


I don't believe Dinan makes any specific HP increase claim for just the cold air intake box. However, the box combined with the high flow filter, larger air mass meter, enlarged throttle bodies, muffler and revised software, Dinan does claim an increase of 28 HP and 20 LB of torque. That's not a "gross" overestimate in my mind. It definitely is a big bucks modification (approximately $170/horse). I can tell you from my own experience it's a noticeable increase. Is it a particularly useful increase? Probably not. But hey, you also get about a 20 LB weight reduction with the muffler and that's good.

Pinecone is correct in saying that this engine is pretty near maxed out stock. Least expensive mod? Try hanging a pair of fuzzy dice from the rearview mirror. 

To view Dinan mods try their web site @ www.dinanbmw.com

My guess is that the biggest "performance" increase for the buck is the differential mod, which I'm still waiting on. This mods usefulness would depend on how you intend to use the car.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

*Cool air not Cold air...*



Pinecone said:


> I hope you realize that the E46 M3 comes fromt eh factory with a cold air intake. Air enters the airbox from tow sources. One is behind the grill, in front of the radiator. The other is from the driver's side brake duct.
> 
> The Gruppe M looks nice, is very expensive, and has not been proven in anyone else's hands other than Gruppe M to produce anything other than a lighter wallet.
> 
> There is no quick and simple HP in these engines PERIOD.


Not Cold air , COOL air....I believe there is a difference, also I knwo you know..

but..yeah...nothing really great is out there for a good price, I agree with Gruppe M looks the best so far, but I hear a CSL type air intake is on its way, but probably big bucks and you may need a pro to install it.

I once changed the air filter of my honda prelude and the engine sound was dramatic, and more power, I can fell it...so I wonder with a muffler change and air intake...hmm..it should be one BAD ASS MF...hahaha :bigpimp:


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## marksmith (Aug 9, 2003)

*FYI Dinan specs ....*

Snake-oil (while very expensive and limited usefullness, having a vile around is a great way to strike-up a conversation.)
-Dinan has garnered a lot of contempt on the various M3 web-sites w/ many people feeling like Steve Dinan is an old west con-artists selling little viles of castor-oil for 10X's the actual value. I don't altogether share these feeling's largely because I have had good luck w/ Dinan products: I've owned 2 BMW's w/ several Dinan mods (Diffs, CAI, Air-meters, throttle bodies, software, suspensions but NOT exhuausts) and they were both terrific cars to drive.
FYI: Dinan makes specific power claims for the CAI w/ mass air meter & associated software (see www.Dinanbmw.com) The addition of 6 individual big-bore throttle bodies does NOT add/contribute to the power specs in any measurable way (HP or torque). Nor does Dinan claim that they do (again see his web site.) Interested in knowing the benefits of adding these expensive throttle bodies? so am I!!
-In my limited experience w/ Dinan big-mouth throttle bodies (on my 330ci) the difference was a matter of improved throttle response (much faster throttle feel, almost "instant" reaction.) This was a blessing and a curse: the throttle was in many cases too touchy for the enjoyment of daily driving. The slightest input from the foot and the car lurched, not very good for snaking around in traffic but great at other times.
IMO: the Dinan CAI kit ( air meter and associated software) is not going to be worth the cost for most (75%) M3 drivers because it won't be noticed except at WOT and higher RPMS (see Dinans' dyno charts to visualized the power gain & see if this looks usefull to the way you drive.) Town driving will feel close to stock and passing won't be much improved: It's only at speeds that can get you thrown in jail that the Dinan's CAI will be somwthing you will want to have.
-Forget the throttle bodies!!!! It's a potential hassle and the power gains are non-existent (a point Steve Dinan recognizes on his web site.)
PS. I may be getting the Dinan CAI, mass meter & software in the near future because I drive like an idiot (and I live the boondocks where I can actually drive very fast on occasion.)
-The 3.91 LS.differential would be the best mod for the $ if one were willing to have gas consumption go to hell (not that it's very good anyway.) Keep in mind the shorter final drive gear will add noticable torque gains in all gears but 6th. This is THE way to get real power & avoid messing w/ the software and A. intake source. I drove an M3 last week w/ the Dinan diff. and it does have more grunt, pull and low-end torque than stock (quite a bit actually.) The biggest surprise to me is the power enhancement the diff brings in 3rd/4th gears (just a blast !!!) Once again, we are talking about 7.5% torque gains: the car will not feel like it's been supercharged and don't expect it to.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

m3jlk said:


> I don't believe Dinan makes any specific HP increase claim for just the cold air intake box. However, the box combined with the high flow filter, larger air mass meter, enlarged throttle bodies, muffler and revised software, Dinan does claim an increase of 28 HP and 20 LB of torque. That's not a "gross" overestimate in my mind. It definitely is a big bucks modification (approximately $170/horse). I can tell you from my own experience it's a noticeable increase. Is it a particularly useful increase? Probably not. But hey, you also get about a 20 LB weight reduction with the muffler and that's good.
> 
> Pinecone is correct in saying that this engine is pretty near maxed out stock. Least expensive mod? Try hanging a pair of fuzzy dice from the rearview mirror.
> 
> ...


 I have a VERY hard time believing that Dinan got CSL levels of performance with FAR less work. Especially given their recent history.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Riuster said:


> Not Cold air , COOL air....I believe there is a difference, also I knwo you know..
> 
> but..yeah...nothing really great is out there for a good price, I agree with Gruppe M looks the best so far, but I hear a CSL type air intake is on its way, but probably big bucks and you may need a pro to install it.
> 
> I once changed the air filter of my honda prelude and the engine sound was dramatic, and more power, I can fell it...so I wonder with a muffler change and air intake...hmm..it should be one BAD ASS MF...hahaha :bigpimp:


How would you get cooler/cold air? The Gruppe M takes the air from above the radiator. The stock system takes in the air from beside the radiator behind the headlight. The second stock location is air that has gone NOWHERE near any hot engine components.

Unless you are planning on a cooler/chiller system, you will get no cooler air than the stock system.

If you are thinking of ram air effects, do the math. The Mooney aircraft get 1 inch of manifold pressure from a ram air system, at about 160 MPH. And to do that, they bypass the filter also.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> I have a VERY hard time believing that Dinan got CSL levels of performance with FAR less work. Especially given their recent history.


I agree. Most of their performance gain can be explained by the diff ratio change.

With any later model E46, the software gives that instant on throttle feeling, by changing the rate of movement of the throttle plates for small initial pedal movements. The same thing the Sport button does on an M3.

I wish marksmith has dome some step by step dyno runs, rather than relying of how it "feels".

I would accept third party hard data.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> How would you get cooler/cold air? The Gruppe M takes the air from above the radiator. The stock system takes in the air from beside the radiator behind the headlight. The second stock location is air that has gone NOWHERE near any hot engine components.
> 
> Unless you are planning on a cooler/chiller system, you will get no cooler air than the stock system.
> 
> If you are thinking of ram air effects, do the math. The Mooney aircraft get 1 inch of manifold pressure from a ram air system, at about 160 MPH. And to do that, they bypass the filter also.


Pinecone, you sound angry...."do the math"....relax, its christmas..its only a forum....the M3 stock air intake looks like its taking air above the radiator to me..., whatever, when I dissassembled the air intake of the stock thats what it seemed to look like....the air lead was coming from that black container when you first open your hood.

The second stock..i dont know what you are talking about..I didnt know there was a second air lead into the engine.

Definition of a COOLER or COLD Airintake. The cold air is air taken from the outside of the vehicle, cooler air is from the engine bay. When I removed my cold air intake from my prelude the air intake lead was from the outside of the engine bay, so when I changed it with a Weapon R type air intake, the filter was in the engine bay...thus COOLER air, NOT COLD air and you can confirm with with any :nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: fanatic...hahaha...

Overall the airintake system upgrade for the M3 is worthless for what it gains...yes..I did the math..with so little horse power gain, and perhaps some engine db increase...I dont think it does so much at all, even read mad russian's comments on his website,

Also, after reading an article from European car. The ACS M3 modified by Samko Racing enterprises, some leading experts in vintage racing, article in European Car FEB 2003 issue, SCHNITZER M3. These boys, Kohl and Samson modified their M3..but suprisingly they didnt modify the engine, their answer was why change what is perfect, you cant get more displacement from a 3.2 than BMW already has, they didnt even change the AIR INTAKE SYSTEM.....instead they replaced the filter with a K&N filter..so the M3 can have some more O2 in the chambers.....so I guess it was unecessary for them to change a good thing.

They did change the muffler and used the multi frame tower bar by ACS, ofcourse, to get more growl than the stock and improved engine bay looks....Its not so about performance, but sound and appearance as well....

So to conclude this thread...air intake upgrades are useless for the M3....maybe changing the filter to a K&N for a little more O2..is the most reasonable upgrade you can do for this beauty...

do we all agree..or does someone else have a comment?


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

that NO NO NO sign...what the hell...i cant say R I C E R


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Riuster said:


> Pinecone, you sound angry...."do the math"....relax, its christmas..its only a forum....the M3 stock air intake looks like its taking air above the radiator to me..., whatever, when I dissassembled the air intake of the stock thats what it seemed to look like....the air lead was coming from that black container when you first open your hood.
> 
> The second stock..i dont know what you are talking about..I didnt know there was a second air lead into the engine.
> 
> ...


You need to do more research.

The brake duct air intake is well documented. You can feel it yourself, stick your hand into the driver's side brake duct and feel along the top. You will feel the hole feeding the airbox.

The black thing you see under the hood is the air box, which contains the filter. The air enters that box from other locations. From behind the headlight, in front of the radiator support (unheated, outside air) and the brake duct (unheated outside air).

I pointed this out in my first post, but you keep saying that you want colder air. The stock system ALREADY DOES THIS. There is no colder/cooler air available to the engine versus the stock system.

Go ahead and spend the $1500 for the Gruppe M, and THINK you have done somethig good. Or accept the fact that it is for looks only. Until someone other than Gruppe M shows any gains from their system, it is not a performance item.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> You need to do more research.
> 
> The brake duct air intake is well documented. You can feel it yourself, stick your hand into the driver's side brake duct and feel along the top. You will feel the hole feeding the airbox.
> 
> ...


what are you talking about.....i didnt say COLDER..i said COOL air..man..you should read my comments...NOT COLDER or COLD, COOL.

and I concluded it by saying use a K&N filter, its only 40 bucks....geeZ, WTF.

i dont know what you are talking about, and dont accuse me of ssaying things I never said....it must be ADD. :thumbdwn:


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Riuster said:


> what are you talking about.....i didnt say COLDER..i said COOL air..man..you should read my comments...NOT COLDER or COLD, COOL.
> 
> and I concluded it by saying use a K&N filter, its only 40 bucks....geeZ, WTF.
> 
> i dont know what you are talking about, and dont accuse me of ssaying things I never said....it must be ADD. :thumbdwn:


1) they are typically called Cold Air Intakes, not Cool Air Intakes.

2) You did start by asking about "upgrading" to a "cool" air intake system. I have just been trying to point out the car already has a very effective "cool" air intake system. And if you want to spend the money for the looks, go for it, but the improvement over stock has not been shown by ANYONE else. And trust me, people have tried.

To do any better than the stock one, you have to cool the air to lower than ambient.

Or maybe you are in denial.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> 1) they are typically called Cold Air Intakes, not Cool Air Intakes.
> 
> 2) You did start by asking about "upgrading" to a "cool" air intake system. I have just been trying to point out the car already has a very effective "cool" air intake system. And if you want to spend the money for the looks, go for it, but the improvement over stock has not been shown by ANYONE else. And trust me, people have tried.
> 
> ...


first of all Im not going to get a COOL nor a COLD UPGRADE intake like the Gruppe M...like you said...it does nothing for the engine...wow..a little HP for 1500 bucks is not worth ..right..hahahah..LMAO...so...better to upgrade the filter ONLY..haha..its only 40 bucks..and if you want..you can change the stock air intake...paint it...or something....they should soon be making carbon fiber cover paper..soon....jk.

The COLD air intake is NOT the same as COOL..air intake....FYI, but why bother going COOL air intake...or upgrading it...for the M...it just makes NO sense..after doing some research..it just came down to the K&N filter upgrade.

well I agree with you...why bother spending 1500 on so little gain....I never didnt....nor will I.


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## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

Tests were also done with different filters on an M3, these included ITG and K&N... the stock BMW filter provided superior air flow to all the others!
K&N lost about 8% by volume If I remember correctly.

the M3 if just about tweaked out as it can be under the hood, but for software!


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> Tests were also done with different filters on an M3, these included ITG and K&N... the stock BMW filter provided superior air flow to all the others!
> K&N lost about 8% by volume If I remember correctly.
> 
> the M3 if just about tweaked out as it can be under the hood, but for software!


Really..then you comment defeats the purpose of those who modified their M3 in the european car mag. It said...they changed the stock filter with a K&N to breath more?.....

got a link on that article or data source.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Riuster said:


> Really..then you comment defeats the purpose of those who modified their M3 in the european car mag. It said...they changed the stock filter with a K&N to breath more?.....
> 
> got a link on that article or data source.


Learn that many people in European Car mag do NOT know what they are doing.

If you really want to make more power, jyou MUST make only one change at a time and dyno EACH time.

Anything else is just talk.


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

Don't wish to get into flame throwing match with anyone, but I would like to respond to those who continually doubt and bad mouth Dinan products. Check out his web site (www.dinanbmw.com). He has done extensive road/track testing and dyno runs on his M3 mods. For those that want to poo poo his stuff that's fine, but you really should base your comments on first hand experience. As for myself I've gone the full Dinan S2 route and am quite pleased with the results.

I agree with Pinecone (again) the car magazines are not usually a reliable source of technical information. I recall the early magazine tests of SMG II were skeptical of that transmission. Those of us that have them, know you can't make a proper evaluation with a 2 hour drive. It's the same with modifications. Unless you have hard data (and how many of us have a dyno in our garage?) it requires considerable seat time to reach any sort of conclusion.


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## ACS3art (Dec 23, 2003)

Riuster said:


> Did anyone upgrade their airintake system to a cool air intake system, any suggestions on which one would be appropriate for our 01+ M3
> 
> The rave on this board is Gruppe M....Any others??? please posts pics and links...thanks :thumbup:


K&N and ACS muffler work good with SMG&6 speed
u do not looooser to much back pressure
and m-3 is need every-bit low and mid 
dont want to loose that now. is no fun to drive??????? :thumbup:


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> Learn that many people in European Car mag do NOT know what they are doing.
> 
> If you really want to make more power, jyou MUST make only one change at a time and dyno EACH time.
> 
> Anything else is just talk.


You obviously dont read other people's comments, as I said before its not the OPINION of the European Car Mag editors or reporters, they only report what others have done.

The Auto group that modified the M3 was called SAMKO RACING ENTERPRISES, they have been racing since back in the 70s.....just a little bit after when we were probably were born....I assume you are in your 30s or early 40s...if you are younger...well then..its obvious you ignore what others have said.

I will repeat myself again, its not the OPINION of the EUROMAG reporters, it is the reporting from European Car mag on the modifications made by SAMKO RACING ENTERPRISES, which date back since the early 70s...I think they have more experience than you, Pinecone....the only racing experience you have is driving that M3..on the road, and even you have some amateur racing experience, it still doesnt match to 30 years. So please read the comments first before you state yours, I never said...it was the opinion from the Mag. Reporters...OK!!!!

Geez...this is really getting frustrating.....who the hell believes magazine editors or reporters on automobiles engineering?????..they are journalists..NOT ENGINEERS....WTF.... 

not that I will trust any mechanic either....


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

m3jlk said:


> Don't wish to get into flame throwing match with anyone, but I would like to respond to those who continually doubt and bad mouth Dinan products. Check out his web site (www.dinanbmw.com). He has done extensive road/track testing and dyno runs on his M3 mods. For those that want to poo poo his stuff that's fine, but you really should base your comments on first hand experience. As for myself I've gone the full Dinan S2 route and am quite pleased with the results.
> 
> I agree with Pinecone (again) the car magazines are not usually a reliable source of technical information. I recall the early magazine tests of SMG II were skeptical of that transmission. Those of us that have them, know you can't make a proper evaluation with a 2 hour drive. It's the same with modifications. Unless you have hard data (and how many of us have a dyno in our garage?) it requires considerable seat time to reach any sort of conclusion.


The problem as I see it, is I haven't seen any reports where people are able to duplicate Dinan's numbers on their own car. Dinan's response has been that only THEY know how to dyno a car. If I were i that business, I will publish far and wide the info on how to dyno the car so that people can further sing their praises.

There are some magazines that have good info, others that are little sloppy. For instance, Bimmer magazine, in their article about the Dinan M3 S2 talks about how Dinan added the brake duct intake. Funny since my car came stock with it.  In their article on SMG, they confused SMG I, SMG II, and SSG/SMG totally. Mixing and matching features. I wrote them a nice letter pointing out the differences, and they cut it to a short paragraph saying that they confused the three, without any clarification of what was wrong for their readers. Also their "tech" guy makes lots of mistakes. I emailed him, and his answer was that he was not a technical person??????

European car tends to not verify claims on reader's cars, they report rice HP (you know this plus that plus this adds up to 50 HP gain  ). They do a nice job on their project cars.

GRM tends to be excellent, also Roundel.


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## Craig Lieberman (Dec 21, 2003)

*Don't believe what you read*

Hi all;
Thought I'd chime in here...

Having worked with several magazines for many years, let me just say this: believe about 50% of what you read. Magazines will NEVER do a write up that says " don't buy this product, it doesn't produce results" because in their eyes, there are 2 types of companies; those that already advertise and those they hope to get to advertise. If you don't believe me, read through 10,000 mags going back 50 years and find me just one that says "XYZ products suck."

Now, that said, I thought I'd do some of my own research. I have an M3...you may have seen it; its' the blue widebody on the front page of E46Fanatics.com

I added a Gruppe M intake and since I work at MagnaFlow, I dyno tested before and after. Net gains? 2.5 hp over stock. My K&N panel filter test yielded 1.9 hp. In neither case did I hear or feel any difference. FYI: If you think you can feel 5-8hp by the seat of the pants, you're kidding yourself. Typically, you need to see a 20hp difference before you can feel a difference, except for perhaps throttle response for certain mods. Was it worth $1500? Maybe not, but the car's engine compartment definitely improved and the fit and finish of the Gruppe M piece is superb

That aside, most people equate sound with power....if the car sounds louder, it must be faster. Hopefully, smarter board users already know this is a myth.

I did change the stock muffler to a MagnaFlow prototype unit. After several design changes, our muffler made 3.9hp over stock and this is still a prototype. We're working on a cat back system now and expect maybe 10hp total out of the car, as we have found the stock system to perform very well so we'll most likely go titanium to reduce about 40 lbs over stock. That, plus a 10hp gain will make this a worthwhile mod. Sounds lke the 3.91 diff is the best mod...guess I'll plunge into that one next.

That's my $.02 cents

In short, everyone can speculate and estimate all they want, but dyno numbers don't lie.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Craig Lieberman said:


> Hi all;
> Thought I'd chime in here...
> 
> Having worked with several magazines for many years, let me just say this: believe about 50% of what you read. Magazines will NEVER do a write up that says " don't buy this product, it doesn't produce results" because in their eyes, there are 2 types of companies; those that already advertise and those they hope to get to advertise. If you don't believe me, read through 10,000 mags going back 50 years and find me just one that says "XYZ products suck."
> ...


Thanks for the hard numbers.

One thing to watch is to do a couple of different cars. I have seen some results on various pieces that work differently on different M3s. I would guess that with engines tuned this high, that minor production tolerances (which are fairly tight on thiese engines) is enough to change the results.

Oh, and the other mod that does work is under drive pulleys. 6 - 9 HP reproted by people who did baseline and after a SINGLE mod.

The K&N numbers you posted are similar to others I have seen. I wonder if the reduced filtering is worth 2 HP. But it does show the stock filter does a pretty good job, as long as it is changed ona regular basis. Randy Forbes uses a fresh one for autoX. After so many runs, that becomes his daily driver one and he starts a new fresh stock filter.

Last thing, any idea of price range of a Ti system?


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## MCoupe197 (Aug 25, 2003)

Not for an E46 but rather an E30... but since you are dealing with filters of the same material as would be used in an E46, this still applies...
http://www.bolhuijo.com/airflowtest/index.html



Riuster said:


> Really..then you comment defeats the purpose of those who modified their M3 in the european car mag. It said...they changed the stock filter with a K&N to breath more?.....
> 
> got a link on that article or data source.


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## Ben Liaw (Nov 24, 2003)

Craig Lieberman said:


> Sounds lke the 3.91 diff is the best mod...guess I'll plunge into that one next.


Slightly off the topic, but you may want to double check before plopping down the funds for the 3.91 for your SMG equipped M3. Does anyone have software for the DME to cope with the new gearing yet?

This is partially the reason why a LTW flywheel on an SMG equipped car works poorly...the computer can't calculate the reduced weight (and speedy takeup on the LTW unit).

During an SMG flywheel replacement, the DME has to be "taught" again, after the flywheel replacement (even though it is stock). Apparently, even the smallest change in weight affects how the computer manages the drivetrain. Not sure if there are enough parameters to compensate for LARGE reductions in weight, like a LTW flywheel normally provides.

FWIW.


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## Beowoulf (Aug 30, 2003)

Just as a FYI, there will be a new intake using the CSL airbox coming out soon, including the software to handle the change. I don't have much data on it but I just wanted to give you guys a heads up.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Turner has been working on one for some time already. Still waiting.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> I hope you realize that the E46 M3 comes fromt eh factory with a cold air intake. Air enters the airbox from tow sources. One is behind the grill, in front of the radiator. The other is from the driver's side brake duct.
> 
> The Gruppe M looks nice, is very expensive, and has not been proven in anyone else's hands other than Gruppe M to produce anything other than a lighter wallet.
> 
> There is no quick and simple HP in these engines PERIOD.


Yea, its kinda funny how some people stick a cone air filter inside the engine compartment and call it a cold air intake and with the extra intake noise, they are certain it adds HP
:dunno: :rofl: :rofl:


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> There are some magazines that have good info, others that are little sloppy. For instance, Bimmer magazine, in their article about the Dinan M3 S2 talks about how Dinan added the brake duct intake. Funny since my car came stock with it.


I remember that article, I remember the magazine noted a former "stock" M3 was actually quicker than the Dinan S2 equipped car in o-60 (not that only 0-60 sprints count), also I remember Dinan clearly stating "the M3 comes fairly maxed out & hard to improve upon".

Who do you believe these days ? I am sticking to stock in terms of performance.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

flashinthepan said:


> I remember that article, I remember the magazine noted a former "stock" M3 was actually quicker than the Dinan S2 equipped car in o-60 (not that only 0-60 sprints count), also I remember Dinan clearly stating "the M3 comes fairly maxed out & hard to improve upon".
> 
> Who do you believe these days ? I am sticking to stock in terms of performance.


I would be surprised if that were true. The 3.91 rear should be enough to get a better 0-60 time. And it is enough to give the differences speced in other mags, without the other DInan stuff.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> I would be surprised if that were true. The 3.91 rear should be enough to get a better 0-60 time. And it is enough to give the differences speced in other mags, without the other DInan stuff.


Shocked me too !!! ????

But this is per the magazine article (check it out ) & not the 1st time I have heard a modded M3 has lost performance from stock. :dunno:


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