# Are there any responsible dealers in Fl?



## neilk (Aug 27, 2007)

aharding said:


> In your case, you didn't take up a BMW dealers time so there is no value add that they provided.


It's one thing if you knowingly waste someone's time and test drive a car with no intention of buying the car there, but it you make a legitimate offer on a car, then it's their fault that they couldn't sell you a car.

Dallas dealers were all about 2k over invoice, so I am doing a deal with a Texas dealer about 120 miles from me at $1K over invoice. It sounds like Adrian could probably beat that price by at least $250, but after factoring time, gas and plane tickets, that $250-500 saving didn't justify the other costs and time.


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## JaneB (May 29, 2012)

Neilk, can you say who you are using?


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

I'm from South Florida and my last ED was from an out of state BMW dealer. It was at ED invoice plus $500, no other fees. The car was shipped from port to my local South Florida dealer for free by just filling up the ED paperwork with the _receiving_ dealer identification code and not the selling dealer code. Yes, there is a form filled with ED that is specifically to enter the receiving dealer. And it can be any dealer and not the selling dealer. Remember the standard $895 (current) paid for transportation? That's from the port to the receiving dealer so there is no dealer favor done here. This is ED SOP and we *all* paid already for it.

So this transportation "hassle" that have been mentioned several times in this thread is just nonsense. As well as some dealers charging up to $750 to be the receiving dealer. Why? Because there is no preparation done for a ED car once is back unless you want the dealer to do _another_. My car was offloaded at the parking lot of my local dealer and the keys left at the front desk. They called me when the car arrived, got the keys and went straight to the service shop for the 1200 oil change/inspection. The car got no damage from the port and the scratched wheel done in Bamberg Germany was replaced at the VPC.

In other words, all the South Florida dealers that did not accept my offer of $500 over ED invoice are the ones "penny smart, dollar stupid".

The fact is that ED is just a 5 min paperwork and computer data entry. That's the reason of so many "$500 over invoice" ED _smart_ salespersons across the country. You can sell 10 of those cars nationwide a week by phone and make a killing, and still be early for dinner. My car was Individual and all the configuration, ordering, and approval was handled by me and Individual directly via email and pdf presentations. My CA was not involved in the process at all.

Actually, the only thing that went less than perfect was due to my CA not selecting the correct trim in my car and leaving no time for BMW to correct it at the Welt. And I fixed that when I got the car back.

In other words, if you are not interested in saving money but to have some "relationship" with a CA then go ahead and pay whatever for ED. To me, my only "relationship" interest is with the _Service Advisor_ and so far he does not care of which dealer I bought the car from. For ED, I'm looking for the cheapest price possible just because I will do 99% of the ordering work myself. I just need the CA to do just the paperwork and for that $500-$750 is more than enough IMO. If that's not enough then I keep looking for another one until I find him/her.

And now it could be nationwide...


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## mwagner1 (Aug 13, 2004)

Yobyot said:


> Get a complete rookie -- the newest, greenest salesperson in the dealer of your choice.
> 
> Then, negotiate for $750 over ED INVOICE (not MSRP), plus whatever stinkin' fees the dealer will insist on.
> 
> ...


WOW....what a sad and cynical post...:eeps: I guess that you must have had some terrible experiences before.....glad I am sticking with Irv Robinson who is a top notch guy and wait, has become a friend,....and I live in south central Texas and Irv is in Chicago!!!!

Cheers,


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## Yobyot (May 17, 2005)

mwagner1 said:


> WOW....what a sad and cynical post...:eeps: I guess that you must have had some terrible experiences before.....glad I am sticking with Irv Robinson who is a top notch guy and wait, has become a friend,....and I live in south central Texas and Irv is in Chicago!!!!
> 
> Cheers,


Like people in a legal process who are their own attorneys, car buyers who are "friends" with a "client advisor" know a buyer who's a fool.

Quite the contrary to what you think, I routinely have excellent buying experiences: I know they are out, by design, to fleece me. I remain on my guard -- polite, but wary -- and by stripping the emotion out of what is a commercial transaction, both sides end up with a fair deal.

My friends aren't on the other side of a commercial transaction. Salespeople use "friendship" as a classic way to disarm buyers. The easiest way to the wallet is through the handshake.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Technic said:


> The fact is that ED is just a 5 min paperwork and computer data entry. That's the reason of so many "$500 over invoice"
> ED _smart_ salespersons across the country. You can sell 10 of those cars nationwide a week by phone and make a killing, and still be early for dinner.


This is so not true.... They can be extremely labor-intensive, and the commissions are the absolute minimum (try $200/deal).
This is why in reality there are very few dealers willing to take ED deals at a nickel ($500) over, and why those of us who do 
have so many customers. Reality check. I do become friends with most of my buyers too...

:beerchug:


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> This is so not true.... They can be extremely labor-intensive, and the commissions are the absolute minimum (try $200/deal).
> This is why in reality there are very few dealers willing to take ED deals at a nickel ($500) over, and why those of us who do
> have so many customers. Reality check. I do become friends with most of my buyers too...
> 
> :beerchug:


Fair enough.

In my own experience, my CA did exactly the ED paperwork and nothing else after ordering. And that's not stated in a bad way, actually it was a much better service than any other in-person-at-the-dealer CA before just because there was no BS, no back and forth and no waiting for the infamous manager's approval. Just a set price, several emails and that was it.

So somehow the $500 flat works quite well for several CA out there. And for me too.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Technic said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> In my own experience, my CA did exactly the ED paperwork and nothing else after ordering. And that's not stated in a bad way, actually it was a much better service than any other in-person-at-the-dealer CA before just because there was no BS, no back and forth and no waiting for the infamous manager's approval. Just a set price, several emails and that was it.
> 
> So somehow the $500 flat works quite well for several CA out there. And for me too.


I doubt there are many (read any) Dealer Principals out there willing to pay a CA a $500 flat for a deal profit that is a total of $500. There's not a penny left over to put in the bank let alone pay bills. There is no holdback or AVP bonus money with ED as there is with traditional deals. What dealer wants to net zero profit? How could they afford to stay in business if they did this regularly????

:dunno:

Figure in the cost of doing business (rent, lights, insurance, workman's comp, wages for office staff, technician's PDI fee, detailer, all other fixed operating costs, ...etc.) the deal is a loser any way you slice it if as you say "$500 mini" is the norm.



I am not complaining, but my relationship with ED customers is a long-term relationship often lasting 4-6 months, regularly involving email exchanges often numbering up to 100 total or more. Add in Preparing the ED Pre-Reservation request (date at The Welt), inputting the vehicle order in DCS (I do everything myself from start to finish), process all of the change requests in delivery date/time with ED Dept., and vehicle specs (most buyers have multiple changes in both), prepare European Delivery Purchase Order, send to customer, Fed-Ex it to Woodcliff Lake NJ, get lease application done with BMWFS, prepare purchase docs and execute, more Fed-Ex back and forth -- all before delivery occurs. After delivery, more emails (what boat is my car on, when is it coming, is it here yet?), and then everything involved in a professional delivery experience (another couple of hours face-to-face).

25 years ago I used to make more commission selling a $6424 MSRP standard Nissan Sentra than I do now on a $50k+ Bimmer here in 2012.

On the other hand, the CA taking ups on the sales floor is averaging a $400-$600 comm PNVR (per new vehicle retailed) or double that on CPOs, and the whole process is done usually in just a couple of hours. The dealer is making $1,500 - $2,000 on the front end gross, another $600-$800 in F&I on average, and also the hidden back-end money that ED deals don't pay to the tune of thousands, depending on the MSRP of the vehicle.

Your experience is not the norm, nor is a $500 mini. Not in the real world. At $500 over ED invoice we are working for close to minimum wage when all is said and done.

I have dealer friends all over the USA and only know a handful who do $500 over deals.

So, why do _I_ do it? There's only one reason -- the intrinsic rewards of taking care of the members of the Bimmerfest online community that I helped to create and not much more. I do make friends with my customers, and that adds value to me personally. Honestly, I couldn't even afford to do it but for the residual income that comes with owning a stake in a major automotive website.

A respondent above suggests CAs doing this are *getting rich*?? At $200-$300 per car, how many would you have to retail in a month to accumulate "wealth"?

:tsk:


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

I was suggesting that if you can do these deals at $800-1000 over invoice plus doc fee and get 40 a month, it is a nice business in addition to your local customer business.

I find that you and the other forum vendors are quite entrepreneurial and applaud you. I'm sure you are doing better business than the guy at vista asking 3500k over and wondering why he can't close.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> I was suggesting that if you can do these deals at $800-1000 over invoice plus doc fee and get 40 a month, it is a nice business in addition to your local customer business.
> 
> I find that you and the other forum vendors are quite entrepreneurial and applaud you. I'm sure you are doing better business than the guy at vista asking 3500k over and wondering why he can't close.


Take a wild guess: how many CAs in the US deliver 40+ BMWs/mo let alone 40 ED's?

I'm not being confrontational - that's not my intent, but for discussion's sake, please take a guess.

I would bet you are talking about the top 2-3% of all CA's, maybe less (top 1%) sell 40 or more total (including conventional US delivery + ED).

The average CA sells 7-8 cars/month total (new and used combined).


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

So you think the most popular CAs on this forum are average?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> So you think the most popular CAs on this forum are average?


No. The active Bimmerfest sponsor CAs are probably 2 standard deviations above the mean...

:bigpimp:

Some have better pay plans than others...



The top CAs in the nation don't really do many EDs because they consume so much time, and the return on time invested is relatively weak.

For those who do, the rationale is the extra boost they give towards reaching volume incentives.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

As stated before, I'm not talking about a lot of dealers. There are *several* dealers out there that are selling ED and non-ED cars at a flat $500-$750 over invoice... _but they are mostly not in this forum._ And again, somehow it works for the both of us.

This is no secret. They are even receiving _annual_ sales awards from BMWNA. The main point is that Florida BMW dealers, overall, suck.

Definitely your own experience will vary. Out... :thumbup:



Jon Shafer said:


> I doubt there are many (read any) Dealer Principals out there willing to pay a CA a $500 flat for a deal profit that is a total of $500. There's not a penny left over to put in the bank let alone pay bills. There is no holdback or AVP bonus money with ED as there is with traditional deals. What dealer wants to net zero profit? How could they afford to stay in business if they did this regularly????
> 
> :dunno:
> 
> ...


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## wmo168 (Mar 26, 2009)

Technic said:


> I'm from South Florida and my last ED was from an out of state BMW dealer. It was at ED invoice plus $500, no other fees. The car was shipped from port to my local South Florida dealer for free by just filling up the ED paperwork with the _receiving_ dealer identification code and not the selling dealer code. Yes, there is a form filled with ED that is specifically to enter the receiving dealer. And it can be any dealer and not the selling dealer. Remember the standard $895 (current) paid for transportation? That's from the port to the receiving dealer so there is no dealer favor done here. This is ED SOP and we *all* paid already for it.
> 
> So this transportation "hassle" that have been mentioned several times in this thread is just nonsense. As well as some dealers charging up to $750 to be the receiving dealer. Why? Because there is no preparation done for a ED car once is back unless you want the dealer to do _another_. My car was offloaded at the parking lot of my local dealer and the keys left at the front desk. They called me when the car arrived, got the keys and went straight to the service shop for the 1200 oil change/inspection. The car got no damage from the port and the scratched wheel done in Bamberg Germany was replaced at the VPC.
> 
> ...


This is very interesting, which dealer you pick up the car from in South Florida? How would they know to leave the key up front and know who the key to gave to...

It would be a problem if a selling dealer keep sending car all over the country, I guess it only works when they have a relationship.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

wmo168 said:


> This is very interesting, which dealer you pick up the car from in South Florida? How would they know to leave the key up front and know who the key to gave to...
> 
> It would be a problem if a selling dealer keep sending car all over the country, I guess it only works when they have a relationship.


http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6434714&postcount=9

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6435287&postcount=14


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## trucheli (Jun 1, 2004)

Jon Shafer said:


> I doubt there are many (read any) Dealer Principals out there willing to pay a CA a $500 flat for a deal profit that is a total of $500. There's not a penny left over to put in the bank let alone pay bills. There is no holdback or AVP bonus money with ED as there is with traditional deals. What dealer wants to net zero profit? How could they afford to stay in business if they did this regularly????
> 
> :dunno:
> 
> ...


I am glad that you can explain in plain english what capitalism and the cost of doing business means to those who get on these forums and make random statements without any knowledge. Also, I want to thank you for creating such a great forum for people to share their European Delivery experiences. Keep up the good work.


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