# A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF



## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

mpc578 said:


> +1
> 
> I got a call from Penfed the other day saying my new cards were incorrectly coded with a default PIN instead of the one I selected. They needed to send me new cards to fix the issue.


Bummer. I hope I typed it in the way I wanted to. I guess I'll find out when I get it in the mail.

-MrB


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

So, what happens when a chip and sig card is used at a chip & pin POS?

I heard just typing in 0000 doesn't work....?


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## GerWil (Dec 18, 2006)

GerWil said:


> The main problem with swipe only cards are at out of the way places, small gas stations, and last but not least some parking garages where you must pay through a machine. I signed up for a Hyatt chip and sig card last year and it worked almost perfectly. Only problem was on a subway platform in Frankfurt, where I had to pay cash. The pin cards are only necessary with certain machines that are not connected to an outside source, and must rely on the internal pin of the card. By the way a signup with Hyatt gives two free nights at any Hyatt.


I visited the PenFed site and was sold. Joined a charity and just waiting for membership to be recognized. I had mentioned in my previous post that the chip & Sig card worked except in machines not connected to an outside source. But why have any worries when the PenFed card works, with no annual charge and offers decent point or cash reward options.


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## GerWil (Dec 18, 2006)

zoltrix said:


> So, what happens when a chip and sig card is used at a chip & pin POS?
> 
> I heard just typing in 0000 doesn't work....?


0000 will not work on off-line machines, since the machines look for the pin embedded on the card. The chip & signature cards will work at gas stations, for example, although some attendants will ask for a pin; the 0000 may work in that situation but the card would also work if you simply told the attendant that your card does not require a pin; same in restaurants where waiters see the chip, and expect you to supply a pin #. If they are using one of the portable devices, it will print the amount charged with a space for signature.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

So I just got back from 2 weeks using my PenFed CHIP+PIN card and it never once asked me for my PIN. It behaved like a CHIP+SIG card the whole time. I tried it in an automated toll booth in France and it rejected the card.

I was so hoping I could enter in my PIN number just once. Oh well, it's worth it for not having to pay the FOREX fees on all the charges.

-MrB


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## CTSoxFan (Oct 20, 2006)

mrbelk said:


> So I just got back from 2 weeks using my PenFed CHIP+PIN card and it never once asked me for my PIN. It behaved like a CHIP+SIG card the whole time. I tried it in an automated toll booth in France and it rejected the card.
> 
> I was so hoping I could enter in my PIN number just once. Oh well, it's worth it for not having to pay the FOREX fees on all the charges.
> 
> -MrB


That is disappointing to hear. I will report back with my experiences after I go next month.


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## GerWil (Dec 18, 2006)

CTSoxFan said:


> That is disappointing to hear. I will report back with my experiences after I go next month.


We are still on our ED delivery trip (currently in Munich after our Log in out drop off yesterday) during which we had hoped that our so-called Pen Fed chip & pin card would really work (as advertised)' We have been asked for our signatures at every restaurant, starting in London. After we took delivery at the Welt, we drove through northern Italy and eventually started using our Hyatt chip & signature card which at least offered us Hyatt points. Periodically we used the Pen Fed card to see if it would ever ask for a pin; including a home depot type store (buying Italian plugs), where I was asked for a photo ID, since there was no pin. We did get it to work at some Italian toll booths, but our Hyatt card also worked at the toll booths.


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## Mr Peanut (Jan 23, 2013)

*A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF*

I know how you all feel. On ED right now. About a week in. Have been using PenFed exclusively. Not one time has a pin been needed. Although the restaurant tonight did ask me to come back with them in case the machine needed a pin, but it didn't.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## compwhiz (Jun 17, 2004)

Glad I caught this forum... Totally forgot about pervasiveness of chip in Europe - been bitten by it a few times in the last few years. After reading through this thread, decided that not goingto bother with PenFed until PIN issues are ironed out, but applied and got approved for Hilton Reserve Visa instead to replace my Amex Surpass card. Will see how my August trip goes.....


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## threeOh (Apr 24, 2003)

Europe is changing somewhat quickly in this area. However, they are not immune to the fact American tourists don't generally have chipped cards. If you live there and use "normal" shops, a US swipe card is pretty useless in some countries (Switzerland). However, in tourist areas, restaurants, hotels, they are not going to turn away business for the sake of a swipe card. So they invest in card readers that can handle a swipe. The backbone of the system exists, it's a matter of the merchant buying the appropriate reader. 

France is another story. As long as 15 years ago our Swiss Euro cards would not work in France. I doubt if things have changed, I simply stopped visiting. 

For a typical ED, this is a pretty minor problem that can usually be solved by walking into another store.


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## hellosopo (Oct 16, 2009)

mrbelk said:


> I tried it in an automated toll booth in France and it rejected the card.


Have you let PenFed know your difficulties in using this card overseas? I fear nothing will get fixed unless people complain about it. If the card doesn't work in machines that require a PIN then I don't know what the point of it is.


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## rgk330i (May 5, 2002)

We just got back from 10 days on ED. I had a chip & signature Marriott card (thanks forum members!!!), and my daughters had typical US mag-stripe debit cards. We did run into a few places that couldn't process the mag-stripes, but I never had a problem with the chip & sig cards. I did have to clear up a little confusion a few times, "kein pin, unterschreiben".


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## SD ///M4 (Jan 24, 2011)

rgk330i said:


> We just got back from 10 days on ED. I had a chip & signature Marriott card (thanks forum members!!!), and my daughters had typical US mag-stripe debit cards. We did run into a few places that couldn't process the mag-stripes, but I never had a problem with the chip & sig cards. I did have to clear up a little confusion a few times, "kein pin, unterschreiben".


Good to know! I got the chip and signature card when Marriott sent my replacement card since the old one was expiring. I won't be using it in Europe for at least two more years, but by then I'm sure everything will be changed.


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## 323power (May 23, 2005)

I have the Andrews FCU Chip & Pin card (chip + sig is the default, but when unavailable, will do chip + pin)...no annual fee, no foreign transax fee and true chip + pin. Threw $5 in into a savings account in order to get the card. Well worth it.


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

If you don't have chip/pin that is fine (I didn't have any, which is odd since I have US Airways and SPG card). Typically the machines took an extra 30 seconds to process. Only one place they didn't know what to do, and I told them use the slider on the right of the device, not the regular insert area.


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## MasterYoda (Apr 4, 2013)

*A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF*



jmnbmw said:


> Chase/Marriott was easy... online application and approved 20 minutes later.


+1 Chase/Marriott is a good card. No foreign transaction fees. We are going for ED in September and I plan on getting 4 or 5 free nights using points

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## sactoken (Apr 4, 2004)

PenFed only offers chip-and-pin on their Visa Promise card now. They used to offer it on a rewards card but that's been discontinued. The Promise card has no rewards, but also no foreign transaction fees or annual fee. I just applied for it for my Europe trip in September. I'll use my other rewards cards first, but it'll be nice to have the chip-and-pin card in case it's needed.



mrbelk said:


> So I just got back from 2 weeks using my PenFed CHIP+PIN card ... I tried it in an automated toll booth in France and it rejected the card.-MrB


I'll be traveling through France, and this is my fear, an automated toll booth that rejects my cards, and a line of angry French drivers behind me! I'll probably just try to carry lots of coins and small bills and go for the cash lanes, and hope the lines aren't too long.

So what happens if you're unable to pay at an automated booth? Is there a call box, or does someone come out to help? IIRC, there's an arm that prevents you from going through until the toll is paid, so do you have to back out and move to a cashier lane?


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## CTSoxFan (Oct 20, 2006)

I had the same experiences with my Penfed Chip & Pin. The two times I tired to use the card as chip and PIN it didn't work, so I gave up. I used my Chase United Visa and it worked everywhere, including the toll booths in Italy which were automated. I was very disappointed in the Penfed card, especially after I was promoting people get it.


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## Meiac09 (Jan 2, 2006)

I just converted my Amex Plat to Chip + Sig, and my USAA MC and Amex to Chip and PIN. Will let you know if it even makes a difference in Germany in a month.

I had no problems with my non-chip Amex in tollbooths in Austria, and only have had problems at various French vending machines without a chip and store clerks who couldn't wrap their head around having to swipe the card. 

I was a little disappointed that it didn't read when I stuck it in the chip reader at the grocery store in the U.S.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Meiac09 said:


> I just converted my Amex Plat to Chip + Sig, and my USAA MC and Amex to Chip and PIN. Will let you know if it even makes a difference in Germany in a month.
> 
> I had no problems with my non-chip Amex in tollbooths in Austria, and only have had problems at various French vending machines without a chip and store clerks who couldn't wrap their head around having to swipe the card.
> 
> I was a little disappointed that it didn't read when I stuck it in the chip reader at the grocery store in the U.S.


USAA has a chip and pin card now? Does it still have a forex fee? I'd much prefer to just use that one rather than the one from PenFed that didn't even work as it was supposed to.

-MrB


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## Bimmer3oi (Aug 26, 2005)

just got back yesterday from doing an ED, and wanted to post my real life experiences in Germany and Spain:

1) i carried a *Capital One Venture* card (non Chip/PIN) as my primary card...it worked everywhere except for the places listed below (see item 2 below)...sample of places where it worked without a problem: automated train ticket machine at Munich airport; Munich gas station with no automated "pay at pump" option, had to go inside to pay attendant after filling; closed Munich gas station, so had to "pay at pump"; various restaurants, hotels

2) the Capital One Venture card did not work in the automated Metro/Subway ticket machines in Madrid because a Chip/PIN card was required...this is where i whipped out the *PenFed Chip/PIN card*, which worked flawlessly, PIN and all :thumbup:

*Note Regarding ATM*: i have a Capital One High Yield Checking account...with this account, CapOne never charges an ATM fee (regardless of what ATM you use) and will automatically reimburse you for fees that some ATMs charge you...also, surprisingly the currency exchange rate i got when withdrawing euros was extremely close to what the "official" currency exchange rate was for the day (ie. they didn't seem to charge me any fees or additional % for the USD/EUR conversions)...i used the card 4 times with similar results


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## B-1 Pilot (Jul 8, 2007)

USAA chas chip and pin mastercards now.. you just have to ask for your card to be converted over.


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## Popoemt (Aug 9, 2012)

Chase Sapphire Preferred is now chip and signature, if you currently have one you can call and have one overnighted...


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## jjcruiser (Aug 18, 2008)

I never had trouble in Europe but I had a miserable time in Japan with our credit cards, which included chip+sig Sapphire, BofA traveler visa, and my regular Virgin America visa. None of the Japan Rail machines (including with the live people helping) would take them. I'm inclined to get a chip+pin card just in case this arises again whether in Europe or Asia.


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## bagbklyn (Apr 28, 2006)

*A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF*

Currently finishing up ED. I didn't have any cards with a chip and never had any issues with paying with a standard Visa card. I thought it would be an issue but never had any problems. Used the card at gas stations (paying inside after I pumped), for dinner, for parking garages, etc. This was of course on and off the beaten path, through several different countries.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## pickupjason (Jan 30, 2010)

I used a BankAmericard travel rewards from BOA for my ED in Sep. The only place it didn't work is the ticket machine at underground. The cashiers/clerks/gas station attendants know it's a chip and sig card and I have had ZERO problem!

Jason


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## Popoemt (Aug 9, 2012)

*A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF*

This is a pic of the new sapphire preferred card... For those interested (I got the pic off flyertalk from a member there that received it today)









Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## ktula (Feb 12, 2013)

At the self-service ticketing machines in some U-Bahn stations, both my chip & sign and chip & pin cards were not accepted. The weird thing is, they were accepted at some other stations.


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## ktula (Feb 12, 2013)

FYI, i have the State Department Federal Credit Union (SDFCU) chip & pin credit card. It's a little bit of hassle to apply for this card even though it's free and carries no annual fee. Among all my credit cards, i have to admit the website for managing the SDFCU credit card is the worst. You can't download monthly statements in PDF and there's no way to set up auto-payment.


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## hellosopo (Oct 16, 2009)

Another data point for the PenFed card, I had no problem using it in various countries in Western Europe (where it was processed under chip & signature) except at the Vaporetto machines in Venice. At the Vaporetto machine I had a bunch of angry people behind me cussing in various different languages as the machine unsuccessfully tried to process my card for a few minutes. (Having previously read Mr. Peanut's post in this thread, I really should've just fed it cash to begin with.) A half hour later at the Saint Lucia train station, the card worked fine in the train ticketing machines.


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## BimmerBahn (Nov 24, 2005)

We had excellent success in DE, CZ, IT and AT with our USAA pin/chip card. No issues at kiosks where pin was required. Restaurants and gas stations also worked fine and most were all pin transactions.


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## manda99 (Jul 25, 2013)

Just adding this because I noticed it this weekend... I logged into my Citibank credit card account (just a basic Citi Simplicity card - no fee) and I noticed this on the Request a Replacement Card Screen:



> Citi Card with Chip
> Your new Citi Card will feature built-in chip technology to provide enhanced security when used at chip-enabled terminals. Learn more about Citi Card with Chip.


Which sounds to me like all the new cards will have chips. I went ahead and requested a replacement. I've got an Amex with chip, but was trying to find a Visa or Mastercard with chip. Glad to find out the free card I already have already has the option! I'm sure it doesn't have the best foreign transaction fees, etc., but it's an easy option.


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## ktula (Feb 12, 2013)

manda99 said:


> Just adding this because I noticed it this weekend... I logged into my Citibank credit card account (just a basic Citi Simplicity card - no fee) and I noticed this on the Request a Replacement Card Screen:
> 
> Which sounds to me like all the new cards will have chips. I went ahead and requested a replacement. I've got an Amex with chip, but was trying to find a Visa or Mastercard with chip. Glad to find out the free card I already have already has the option! I'm sure it doesn't have the best foreign transaction fees, etc., but it's an easy option.


It may be just a chip and signature card., instead of chip and pin.


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## manda99 (Jul 25, 2013)

ktula said:


> It may be just a chip and signature card., instead of chip and pin.


I'm sure it is, but was just sharing.


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## openwheelracing (Aug 1, 2008)

*Re: A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF*

Chip and signature card ( Hilton Honors VISA reserve card ) was useless at German U-Bahn machines. We had to go to the ticket window. Otherwise no problem.

So don't completely rely on chip and signature.


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## miata13 (Nov 22, 2007)

*USAA Also Offers Chip & Pin Cards*

I am a USAA member...and while checking out the info for PenFed, saw an ad for USAA....a few minutes later...had requested free new USAA Mastercards with the Chip & PIN. USAA also has an on-line log to enter your future travel so that their fraud detection programs won't "alert" when you start having overseas charges appear during your ED trip!

Our ED trip is in 3 months..for a 328i xDrive M-Sport, Sport Wagon / Glacier Grey w/ Coral Red/Black interior....


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## SJAPoc (Apr 14, 2007)

I believe that the USAA Card has a 1% foreign transaction fee, whereas the PenFed Card has none. The convenience of the Chip and Pin (vs. chip and sign) particularly in use of automated kiosk locations where generally the transactions amounts are small easily offsets that difference. 

The Cap1 Card we use for foreign travel, despite the lack of "chip" technology, has really never posed a problem. And their ATM card linked to a pretty good yield money market account (0.5% APR) and no transaction fees, is a very convenient way of getting cash in Europe. Nonetheless, I may opt for a USAA or PenFed card for our next ED in July, simply because of the convenience factor or as a backup card. 

What I find surprising is that USA Card Issuers are not embracing the Chip and Pin Technology, especially given the SNAFUS such as the recent Target incident. I inquired with Capital One and they really don't have any concrete plans to move to Chips in their cards at this time. 

This is a great thread by the way... Some cards charge 3% foreign transaction fees that many consumers are not aware of until they receive their statements. When you start paying thousands for hotels, gas, food... Etc., these fees can add up to real money.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

I've experienced problems with my bank cards lacking the chip twice - an ATM in Brazil at one of the bank (but ATM's at other banks worked), and an unattended gas station in the Dolomites. I'm with Wells Fargo; reading this thread reminded me to call WF and inquire about pin&chip cards. It turns out they offer them now, and replacements are on the way:thumbup:


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## openwheelracing (Aug 1, 2008)

*Re: A credit card for Euro Delivery...Chip & Pin and no FETF*

Another problem today with my Citi Hilton Visa Reserve card. Chip and signature. Did not work at a grocery store today near The Lourve


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