# How did you rate your salesperson?



## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

hmm, I got called by the folks doing the survery and I told them that I would do the survery AFTER delivery. From what I hear from you folks it seems like this survey is pretty useless in terms of getting any useful feedback to the dealer.

Z


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## Marco (Mar 7, 2003)

I am sure many of you know, but there is this web page where one can leave comments on his/her dealer performance:

http://www.dealerrater.com/dealers/index.asp

I think that if people do enter their experience (like in this thread), over time it would build up a very valuable data-base for buyers.
:dunno:


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## 96TL (Mar 28, 2003)

My dealer was great. He gave me a production slot immediately, he gave me a great price on a 2004 330ci when nobody else would (in my area), he never gave me an attitude when I would call and check status on my car and he explained the car in and out. Plus I got free mats, wheel locks, and a $25 gift certificate. I took delivery of the car on Wednesday and received the call yesterday. I gave them 5's all the way! :thumbup:


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

Sort of ancient history, but when I first took a test drive before buying my first BMW in 1994, the salesman had me pull it out of the parking space because he could not drive a stick.....:yikes: 

I did buy a '94 325is from him, but have no memory of rating him. For many reasons, though, he was about a 3.


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

I gave my sales guy some 4's and 5's. If I knew it was an all or none type of survey, I would have given him a 5. I think I was being a little too critical when I was rating him over the phone. He did do a lot to get me the car I wanted. Oh, well. I hope he doesn't remember if I order another car from him. Most likely, I'll get my next car from Cutter. Too bad Cutter doesn't sell Minis b/c the gf is looking to get one.


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## michelito (Feb 6, 2003)

My salesman gave ma a $5000 better deal than my previous dealership, threw in mats, 50litres of gas, chrome exhaust, and a storage bin to replace the cupholders at his cost (bought it for me). There was one adapter missing for the wheel locks and he immediately ordered another one. 
The car was absolutely spotless at delivery.
When they call me (if they do) he'll get all 10s (in Canada it's 1 to 10).


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## Masskrug (Feb 11, 2003)

michelito said:


> *When they call me (if they do) he'll get all 10s (in Canada it's 1 to 10). *


Sheesh! Everything is more in Canada!


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

> Jon went above and beyond the call of duty and did things like drive almost 150 miles round trip just so I could have my first car 1 day earlier and leave me with his personal car for the day while the CPO inspection was done. Let me test drive alone pretty much any car on the lot when I have asked, threw in free goodies (like F1 hats, BMW hats, floor mats, key chains), gone to bat for me with BMWNA when I was having repeated fan failures on our new 325 and allow me to use his office for a drop off/pick up point on occasion.


This guy's my hero!!! What a man!!!!!!!:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :rofl:


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

> my salesperson got me a SA built car when I specificly asked for a German built car.


That's an instant ONE on the survey. How could he screw this up? It's like asking for Pepsi and you get a Diet Pepsi instead. BZZZZZ! Fail!!!:thumbdwn: I wouldn't have bought it from him.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Motown328 said:


> *That's an instant ONE on the survey. How could he screw this up? It's like asking for Pepsi and you get a Diet Pepsi instead. BZZZZZ! Fail!!!:thumbdwn: I wouldn't have bought it from him. *


:dunno:


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Sarafil,

Obviously you might not realize the importance of where an auto is built in correlation to its quality.

If you want a Civic and I told you this one I want to sell you was built in Bangledesh, not Japan, are you buying?


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

SA built BMWs have a lower rate of defects vs. German built BMWs.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

> SA built BMWs have a lower rate of defects vs. German built BMWs.


Where does this info. come from?

Besides, that's off the point. If I tell my salesman, I want a German-built vehicle, why on earth would he try to sell me something else? That's not what I want!!!


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Motown328 said:


> *Where does this info. come from?*


JD Power: http://www.bmw.co.za/Info/News/archive/ehighestquality.html
Edit: Another link: http://www.suntimes.co.za/2002/07/28/business/surveys/survey03.asp

Rossyln SA cars have 85 defects per 100 cars. Munich came in 2nd at 87 defects per 100 cars.


> *Besides, that's off the point. If I tell my salesman, I want a German-built vehicle, why on earth would he try to sell me something else? That's not what I want!!! *


I don't believe dealers have the choice of specifying location of build. And some builds are impossible... like you'll never get a German built X5 or Z4. Or a SA built 330Ci coupe. A good number of 325i sedans are produced in SA.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Thanks for the info. alee!!! 

I really don't put too much faith in the J.D. initial quality surveys though. They are always all 5 stars. I like the long-term estimates better.

Yeah, X5 and Z4 = U.S. cars. Any connection to why their reliability is in the tanker?! :thumbdwn:


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Motown328 said:


> *Sarafil,
> 
> Obviously you might not realize the importance of where an auto is built in correlation to its quality.
> *


I worked in a BMW service department for nearly 2 years... don't tell me that I don't know about quality. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the SA build cars I saw were in all cases much more reliable. They did not suffer from all the little quirks and problems that normally affect German-build BMWs.

FYI-- I made sure that my mother's most recent E46 was SA-build. We've had a couple German build cars and they constantly displayed one problem or another. I went out of my way to locate the car and swap it with another one for her so that we could avoid the quirks that come as standard equipment on the German models. Her new car has yet to see the service department for anything in nearly a year. Her first German build 323 was a buy-back/lemon, and the second one was in the shop at least once a month for something or other.

So maybe *you* don't know about the correlation between quality and place of manufacture, motown328.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Motown328 said:


> *I really don't put too much faith in the J.D. initial quality surveys though. They are always all 5 stars. I like the long-term estimates better.*


Seriously though, the concern about SA built cars is really largely unfounded... BMW maintains the same levels of excellent and quality at all their factories. It's quite impressive when their non-domestic plant in Rosslyn SA is regarded as one of their best plants, and rated higher than Munich where you would presume the highest standards would be maintained.

BMW does have many quality issues to take care of, but I think their problems are generally uniform across all factories. They certainly drive real nice, but they all seem to develop unusual and annoying problems over time.

My Germany-built 330Ci had numerous problems in the first year, but it seems like everyone has problems like mine.


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## Parump (Dec 25, 2001)

A confession - 

I rated our client advisor all fives even though he may not have deserved this rating in all categories. Why? First, the price was very, very fair. He obviously convinced his sales manager to make the deal. Second, he never belittled me or tried to "sell" me. Third, I resented the fact that the person with whom he was partnered tried to exclude him from the sale - very unethical in my opinion. Fourth, I was sympathetic to the fact that he has bills, family obligations just as I do. I saw a drawing that his son had completed. I wondered how I would feel in his shoes if unable to buy some wanted things that would benefit my family. Why punish someone because of an arbitrary finite scale imposed on a transaction with many shades of gray? It seems somewhat ironic that we could punish a client advisor at no cost to us.

Given these issues and the pressures of sales, I felt that he earned the bonus, irrespective of the actual criteria.

My best purchasing experiences weren't always associated with spending the least amount of money. The relationships were sometimes more worthwhile the the few dollars saved.

An interesting story involves a friend whose car had a catastrophic failure costing thousands of dollars to repair following the expiration of the warranty by just a few thousand miles. The service department covered the entire bill except for $500. Sometimes the lowest price isn't always the best deal.


Had I known about Cutter at the time, I would have bought a car from Franco.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

> I worked in a BMW service department for nearly 2 years... don't tell me that I don't know about quality.


Good, you have an insider's view of what goes on. But then you should also know that if a customer requests something about his auto, then that is what you should give him. So if I ask politely that I wish for my new BMW to be shipped from Germany, that means I don't want a South African auto. Period.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Motown328 said:


> *Good, you have an insider's view of what goes on. But then you should also know that if a customer requests something about his auto, then that is what you should give him. So if I ask politely that I wish for my new BMW to be shipped from Germany, that means I don't want a South African auto. Period. *


True, you should get what you want. But, in many cases, it is easy to make a mistake in this area. The difference between making a mistake and ordering you a South African vs. German built car is much easier to make than ordering a car with grey instead of sand leather, for example. One of the only ways to tell the difference is to look at the model code-- 0344 for a German built '03 325i vs. 0345 for a South African '03 325i. Also, in either case, it'll just say "325i"-- no where will it actually say "South African build" or "German build". I doubt that many people would even notice this difference.

Also, in an honest effort to locate you a vehicle without having to order a car, or in attempt to get you an earlier allocation, your client advisor could find a car that meets your specs or an open allocation earlier than expected that just happened to be SA build.

Here is a shot of the DCS ordering sheet that the dealer would print out. Notice that no where does it list the place of manufacture, and the only way to tell is by the model number. Once a car is built, though, you can also figure it out looking at the VIN.

So, to sum it up, I think that it is important to note that most people don't even know or care that BMW makes some cars in South Africa, that cars made there have shown much better reliability (and I have seen this first hand, I am not basing this on JD power results), and that it is quite easy to unintentionally get you a SA car instead of a German one. I don't think that this alone is grounds to warrant an "automatic 1" rating. If this is the way you act towards the dealer, I hope you have a long list of alternative dealers to do your services at, because I predict that you are going to make alot of enemies very quickly at your dealer and others down the road. But this is just my opinion, of course.

In the enclose pic, this should help to show you how easy it is to get a 325i SA instead of a 325i from Germany.


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