# New diesel owner a little confused with fuel



## Malkavian (Jan 26, 2010)

Thanks! Interesting read..


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

*Some more insight into Biodiesel*

The Biodiesel Standard (ASTM D 6751)
All engines are designed and manufactured for a fuel that has certain characteristics. In the US, the industry organization that defines the consensus on fuels is the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM). In the case of diesel fuel (and biodiesel), the responsibility for setting standards lies within ASTM Committee D02 on Petroleum Products and Lubricants. In order to assure that the standards are rigorous and robust, ASTM committee D02 is comprised of fuel producers, engine equipment manufacturers, and third party interests (users, government agencies, consultants). ASTM also uses a complicated ballot process in which a single negative vote is enough to defeat a ballot, so this is a true consensus organization. An ASTM standard is not easily achieved. Some standards can take over 10 years to gain agreement and be issued by ASTM. This rigorous, time-consuming process is why ASTM standards are recognized and adopted by others worldwide.

ASTM fuel standards are the minimum accepted values for properties of the fuel to provide adequate customer satisfaction and/or protection. For diesel fuel, the ASTM standard is ASTM D 975. All engine and fuel injection manufacturers design their engines around ASTM D 975. In cooperative discussions with the engine community early in the biodiesel industry's development, engine manufacturers strongly encouraged the biodiesel industry to develop an ASTM standard for biodiesel fuel which would allow them to provide their customers with a more definitive judgment on how the fuel would affect engine and fuel system operations compared to ASTM D 975 fuel for which an engine was designed.

In June of 1994, a task force was formed within ASTM Subcommittee E on Burner, Diesel, Non-Aviation Gas Turbine, and Marine Fuels of ASTM Committee D02, with the expressed objective of developing an ASTM standard for biodiesel. The biodiesel standard, ASTM PS 121-99, was approved by Subcommittee E, and subsequently issued by ASTM in June of 1999 (for copies, see the ASTM web site at www.astm.org). In December of 2001, ASTM approved the full standard for biodiesel, with the new designation of D-6751 (succeeds PS 121-99). This standard covers pure biodiesel (B100), for blending with petrodiesel in levels up to 20% by volume. Higher levels of biodiesel are allowed on a case-by-case basis after discussion with the individual engine company, since most of the experience in the US thus far has been with B20 blends.

The approval of this biodiesel standard, and the technical reviews necessary to secure its approval, has provided both the engine community and customers with the information needed to assure trouble free operation with biodiesel blends.

Engine Warranties
All diesel engine companies warranty the product they make - engines. They warranty their engines for "materials and workmanship." If there is a problem with an engine part or with engine operation due to an error in manufacturing or assembly within the prescribed warranty period, the problem will be covered by the engine company. 
Typically, an engine company will define what fuel the engine was designed for and will recommend the use of that fuel to their customers in their owner's manuals.

Engine companies do not manufacture fuel or fuel components. Therefore, engine companies do not warranty fuel - whether that fuel is biodiesel or petrodiesel fuel. Since engine manufacturers warranty the materials and workmanship of their engines, they do not warranty fuel of any kind. If there are engine problems caused by a fuel (again, whether that fuel is petrodiesel fuel or biodiesel fuel) these problems are not related to the materials or workmanship of the engine, but are the responsibility of the fuel supplier and not the engine manufacturer. Any reputable fuel supplier (biodiesel, petrodiesel, or a blend of both) should stand behind its products and cover any fuel quality problems if they occur.

Therefore, the most important aspect regarding engine warranties and biodiesel is whether an engine manufacturer will void its parts and workmanship warranty when biodiesel is used, and whether the fuel producer or marketer will stand behind its fuels should problems occur.

Most major engine companies have stated formally that the use of blends up to B20 will not void their parts and workmanship warranties. This includes blends below 20% biodiesel, such as the 2% biodiesel blends that are becoming more common. Several statements from the engine companies are available on the NBB website. Some engine companies have already specified that the biodiesel must meet ASTM D-6751 as a condition, while others are still in the process of adopting D-6751 within their company or have their own set of guidelines for biodiesel use that were developed prior to the approval of D-6751. It is anticipated that the entire industry will incorporate the ASTM biodiesel standard into their owner's manuals over time.

The National Biodiesel Board, the trade association for the biodiesel industry, has formed the National Biodiesel Accreditation Commission (NBAC) to audit fuel producers and marketers in order to improve the quality of biodiesel production and handling throughout marketing channels in the U.S. NBAC issues a 'Certified Biodiesel Marketer' seal of approval for biodiesel marketers that have met all requirements of fuel accreditation audits. This seal of approval will provide added assurance to customers, as well as engine manufacturers, that the biodiesel marketed by these companies meets the ASTM standards for biodiesel and that the fuel supplier will stand behind its products.

With biodiesel that meets the D-6751 specification, there have been over 45 million miles of successful, problem-free, real-world operation with B20 blends in a wide variety of engines, climates, and applications. The steps taken by the biodiesel industry to work with the engine companies and to ensure that fuel meets the newly accepted ASTM standards provides confidence to users and engine manufacturers that their biodiesel experiences will be positive and trouble-free.


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## JBIZZ (Jun 21, 2010)

Maybe a bit dramatic, but this whole thread about bio-diesel and availability makes me nervous about the 335D I have on order. Not to mention the other threads about cetane....

Its making me think I should have ordered the 335i for no other reason than 3 years down the road (3 being an arbitrary number) I could have problems finding gas that is not biodiesel (ala "d" drivers in Chicago).

I like the idea of being able to go to any pump, not worry about spills, and just put freakin gas in the car and go....


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

JBIZZ said:


> Maybe a bit dramatic, but this whole thread about bio-diesel and availability makes me nervous about the 335D I have on order. Not to mention the other threads about cetane....
> 
> Its making me think I should have ordered the 335i for no other reason than 3 years down the road (3 being an arbitrary number) I could have problems finding gas that is not biodiesel (ala "d" drivers in Chicago).
> 
> I like the idea of being able to go to any pump, not worry about spills, and just put freakin gas in the car and go....


Dont worry. Initially I too was scared reading all these discussions. Then first few times I would stand at pump reading all labels for 5-10 mins.. and now its been 25+ fillups and I know what to look for.


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## JBIZZ (Jun 21, 2010)

I figured that it wouldn't be that bad. However, there appears to be some uncertainty about whether the biodiesel will become more common. I couldn't imgaine if all the pumps started carrying B20 in 3 years, and I'm searching like a mad man trying to fill up my car.

I drove around yesterday to some stations close to my place and 6 out of 10 have the green pumps and no bio stickers. It was better than I thought. The uncertainty for me is whether or not in 2 or 3 years they will all have some sort of bio mixture and our cars won't be able to handle it.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I think the Bio Fuels have to overcome some major hurtles, one of which is not to compete with food sources that inturn impact food prices, such as corn.

It hard to justify politically putting corn into your fuel tanks when people are starving.

I know they are working on alternative plants and even seaweed, things that do not compete directly with food supply.

What next, whale oil as Bio Diesel?:dunno: Here comes the Whale Wars!!!

No, seriously I think we will see the B5 and B10 as more common, but anything greater than that outside of the corn belt, perhaps not.

I'm not losing any sleep over it. There will be plenty of quality Diesel Fuel left out there, it is what moves America.


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## Malkavian (Jan 26, 2010)

JBIZZ said:


> Maybe a bit dramatic, but this whole thread about bio-diesel and availability makes me nervous about the 335D I have on order. Not to mention the other threads about cetane....
> 
> Its making me think I should have ordered the 335i for no other reason than 3 years down the road (3 being an arbitrary number) I could have problems finding gas that is not biodiesel (ala "d" drivers in Chicago).
> 
> I like the idea of being able to go to any pump, not worry about spills, and just put freakin gas in the car and go....


Eh, Chicago is fine... It's the Urbana-Champaign area that's really big into it. All those ethanol signs make me want to go lick some fuel pumps.  But even there, i wouldn't sweat it. If i understand Lincoln's article correctly, your car won't blow up the second it sees B20. If you have to use B20 ALL the time, your oil will get contaminated eventually thanks to emission control system design, so you'll need oil changes every 6,000 miles or so rather than advertised 15,000. :dunno: Ok, i think i can live with that.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

bimmerdiesel said:


> US federal law has mandated the use of ULSD in all pumps.


Technically that doesn't become law until next January 1st.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Malkavian said:


> Eh, Chicago is fine... It's the Urbana-Champaign area that's really big into it. All those ethanol signs make me want to go lick some fuel pumps.  But even there, i wouldn't sweat it. If i understand Lincoln's article correctly, your car won't blow up the second it sees B20. If you have to use B20 ALL the time, your oil will get contaminated eventually thanks to emission control system design, so you'll need oil changes every 6,000 miles or so rather than advertised 15,000. :dunno: Ok, i think i can live with that.


I think you're correct, but 2 things to keep in mind: if there is any sort of engine problem within the warranty period, and BMW sniffs anything more than B5, their position will be to deny coverage.

Second, the other big concern discussed in the article is the interaction of bio with oil additives. So even if we change the oil more frequently, the bio that makes it to the oil can potentially interfere with the function of the oil's additive package. That was the final straw for me.


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