# Retrofit Touch Controller



## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

The kind of the contoller depends on if you have a TV modul or not (don't know why, but there are different controllers therefore) and if you have the ceramic tiles for the controller (it's a special SA). 

The M5 has Can2 but you need the touch control device and here you have to splice the wires to connect it. 

CU Oliver


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## mrjoed2 (Apr 6, 2012)

Aritaurus said:


> Ok, I ordered the following parts yesterday
> 
> 65829320288 (Controller)
> 65829338800 (Control Unit, Controller Touch)
> ...


Hello,

Came across this thread as I am looking to upgrade my 2014 650i coupe to the touch controller. Is the controller you got off Ebay the touch version?

Thanks


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

How do I tell if my firmware is 50.4 or above? I read my iDrive version is F010-13-11-502 but I dont know how to translate that to firmware version?

I also see that 65829347470 for the controller box has superseded 65829320275, can anyone confirm that?

I also have the older build date for 2013, so my color wires probably arent the newer one, what problems does this cause? Thanks for the help!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Where exactly did you read F010-13-11-502 from?


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

ImpetuousRacer said:


> How do I tell if my firmware is 50.4 or above? I read my iDrive version is F010-13-11-502 but I dont know how to translate that to firmware version?
> 
> I also see that 65829347470 for the controller box has superseded 65829320275, can anyone confirm that?
> 
> I also have the older build date for 2013, so my color wires probably arent the newer one, what problems does this cause? Thanks for the help!


F010-13-11-502 is 51.1 so you're definitely good to have this coded. Even if you're on a firmware level that's lower than 50.4, you can still FDL code the ZBE Touch options. I tried this a few days ago when I was testing an NBT we bought off ebay for my friend - it wasn't from a 2014 model so it was on the pre 50.4 firmware but it still worked with my Touch controller and TBX module.

If you FDL code the options on the older firmware however, you won't have the A-Z search option when searching for music and you also won't get the Touchpad option under the settings menu but everything will still work.

The part for the TBX I used was 6582933800 but the part number may have changed to more updated one. Just make sure you have the one that's for your market and not the Japanese or Chinese one.

If your F10 is a 2013 model, your controller goes through the BODY CAN network so the touch controller will work just by plugging it in. For the TBX, you will need to find a way to split all four wires on your controller cable - both the TBX and the Touch Controller uses the same pinout so you just need to mirror it.


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

shawnsheridan said:


> Where exactly did you read F010-13-11-502 from?


I used Esys, connected, went to VCM, clicked read I steps, that is the current istep. They did an update for my B&O tsb.


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

mrjoed2 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Came across this thread as I am looking to upgrade my 2014 650i coupe to the touch controller. Is the controller you got off Ebay the touch version?
> 
> Thanks


Yep, it's the touch version but you will also need the corresponding hand writing module which is part 65829338800 as well.


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

Aritaurus said:


> F010-13-11-502 is 51.1 so you're definitely good to have this coded. Even if you're on a firmware level that's lower than 50.4, you can still FDL code the ZBE Touch options. I tried this a few days ago when I was testing an NBT we bought off ebay for my friend - it wasn't from a 2014 model so it was on the pre 50.4 firmware but it still worked with my Touch controller and TBX module.
> 
> If you FDL code the options on the older firmware however, you won't have the A-Z search option when searching for music and you also won't get the Touchpad option under the settings menu but everything will still work.
> 
> ...


This answered everything I was looking for! I'll get the parts ordered, I'll do the coding ahead of time, and will let you know the outcome after I install and splice wires to the module. Thanks!


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

ImpetuousRacer said:


> This answered everything I was looking for! I'll get the parts ordered, I'll do the coding ahead of time, and will let you know the outcome after I install and splice wires to the module. Thanks!


Good luck and keep us posted!

When you code your car, just change the build date to 07/13 and VO code HU_NBT. You'll get the Touchpad option under settings and you'll have the options for the speller, map zoom and audio feedback.


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

Aritaurus said:


> Good luck and keep us posted!
> 
> When you code your car, just change the build date to 07/13 and VO code HU_NBT. You'll get the Touchpad option under settings and you'll have the options for the speller, map zoom and audio feedback.


Sorry if this is dumb question, but where do I go to change the build date?


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

ImpetuousRacer said:


> Sorry if this is dumb question, but where do I go to change the build date?


Coding -> Read FA -> Edit -> Look for Zeitkriterium -> Right click edit and change it to 07/13. Click the arrow on the bottom to save. After that, activate the modified FA by right clicking on it and then right click HU_NBT and select "code".

Make sure you have "Update VCM After TAL Execution" and "Update MSM After TAL Execution" unchecked under options else it will write the new build date to your VIN and your car will have conflicts when the dealer flashes it.


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

Aritaurus said:


> ...The part for the TBX I used was 6582933800 but the part number may have changed to more updated one...


Just confirmed on ECS's website,

65829320275 was superseded by 65829338800
65829338800 was then superseded by 65829347470

So 65829347470 is the latest version for US in case anyone else comes across the thread.


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

So rather than splice any wires up, I made my own y-adapter.

I used from my computer parts stash a PWM 4-pin extension cable, and connected to 2 female ends doing some soldering and using some heat shrink tubing.
I then used a dremel to shave down the female ends to fit snuggly inside the controller and the module. The other end plugs right into the existing lead:










My 07/12 build had zero room under the DCT knob. So I slid it in a crevasse behind it:









For coding, I didnt need to change the buld date, only did the coding portion.


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## ImpetuousRacer (Nov 16, 2012)

I tested it out and everything works great. Thanks for everyone's help on this!


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I got myself a used Touch Controller and a new Touch Module and just fitted them now. My iDrive controller still runs on K-CAN so had to rewire and tap into K-CAN2 (High and Low). Controller is working, lights up and responds, and I want to enable the touch module as well (TBX). Since it's new, I have to code it. Thing is, it's not showing on my SVT tree. If I do read ECU, both ZBE3 and TBX are missing. I need to code ZBE3 as well to inject CAFD. Any tips to make these two ECUs appear?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Create a Flash TAL, and see if they show up then flash / encode them with TAL.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

If I choose a new enough iStep shipment, they do show up in red. So, I guess, flashing is the only way - I hate flashing


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

Normally it's not nec essary to flash the module. Just code the required things in NBT. I got also a new module and could use it without flashing (or detect CAFD). 

CU Oliver


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

ZBE Touch is all enabled and I can see the settings on NBT. Thing is, it doesn't appear when I Read ECU, and of course, my SVT stored in VCM is still ZBE2.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I update my VCM and code one of the ECUs. ZBE3 appeared and was able to code it. TBX is still missing though


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

Did you change your Zeitkriterium to 0713? Otherwise TBX should not be visible. If I remember right I'd the same issue in my car (8 months ago).

CU Oliver


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Yes, I'm using 1113.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Touch module is now working. I don't see it in my SVT still but it's working and that's all that matters. No CON error after it was recognized as ZBE3 and VO Coding. 

I also got my 6WA working. The cause of all my frustrations in the past was due to faulty MOST cable. I'm still getting the red dot so evidently, I haven't cleared the old VIN. That's gotta have to be my next adventure.


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

I had to go to the SVT editor and delete ZBE2 and read my SVT again and ZBE3 showed up. After that, I saved the current SVT and wrote it to my SVT target so now HU_NBT, ZBE3 and TBX are all part of my target when I read it. After that, you just activate the modified FA and select CAFD for SWE for both TBX and ZBE3 and VO code them.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Thanks, I figured as much. Everything is working now, as far as Touch module is working. I also found out that it supports a limited number of gestures. I figured out the gesture for "Delete", have to find out more


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

In the navigation target map you can zoom in and out like the gestures on an iphone with two fingers. Delete is with one finger to the left, - is tonthe right, letters and numbers should be clear. If you habe internet in your car you can use the touch controller like a mouse. 

CU Oliver


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Deleted


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Is there a gesture for switching between caps, small letters and symbols, or does it do it automatically? I know controller up switches cases but for symbols/numbers, you need to select and press that dinky symbol. I'm under the impression that the character set it will recognize is limited to what is displayed around the circle but I could be wrong. I'll play with it more when I get the chance, I guess. 

I can't wait till menu navigation is supported


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

To answer my own question, touch can recognize Caps, small letters and numbers (maybe symbols too but haven't tried) automatically without switching character set.


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hallo!

That's right. It can also recognize the signs for telephone * and #.

CU Oliver


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## paralel4444 (Apr 28, 2014)

*CAN question*

I have retrofitted NBT on CAN1 and now trying to retrofit drive touch on my 2013 F25. How do you exactly do wiring for it? I tried connecting controller and joystick in parallel - but it doesn't seem to be working even after coding. Thank you


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I thought 2013 is using CAN2 now, maybe not. You said you've coded it, so does this mean you can see TBX and ZBE3 on your SVT? If so, then it is working. You probably just need to code your NBT to use and recognize Touch.

I tap into Pins 9 (CAN2- L) and 11 (CAN2-H) from NBT quadlock connector. I reuse the old plug so 12V and GND stays, just replaced both CAN signals from NBT.


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## paralel4444 (Apr 28, 2014)

Thank you - I will try to do it.


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## paralel4444 (Apr 28, 2014)

Also - which one should go to 9 and which one to 11? In other words -pin 3 and 4 on the controller - which one is can H and L?


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

1-12V
2-GND
3-CAN2-H
4-CAN2-L

This is the same both for the controller and module


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

I replied the same to the PM from paralel4444.

Can2 wires = two twisted wires in yellow-red and yellow-brown - normally easy to find 

CU Oliver


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi guys.! 

I have a F10 with build date 2011-10-10. 

Im doing the NBT retrofit now and recieved most of the parts but still need new ZGW (8-SK)
for Kcan 2 support. I have yesterday ordered the new ZGW and hope to recieve it soon. 

Im new at this but learned alot the last couple of weeks and i Think that after some help with coding all will work :thumbup:

I found this thread about retrofitting touch controller and got curious since i recieved a new controller in the NBT purchase on Ebay. 

I have to take 2 wires from ZGW to NBT on Pin 9 and 11 and if i understand correctly i can from pin 9 and pin 11 take 2 more wires and re-route them to the Idrive controller and at the controlller i can splice those cables to re-route them to Touch module. am i correct.? 

Another question i have is about the connector to Idrive controller. Is the connector exactly the same for old style controller and newer style controller and is it also the same connector to Touch module..? 

Also i wonder if its possible to buy such a connector that will fit the touch module.? In photographs of the touch module the pins look tiny and seems to be very Close together. Do you guys take the module apart and then solder wires directly to the pins..? 


Appriciate your help..! :thumbup:



Best Regards 
Peter


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

I received my F06 with builf F010-13-07-506 without IDrive touch
Then I added IDrive Touch and all went OK (I had built FO 10-14-03-503). 
Now went to BMW and they got IDrive errors when updating to FO 10-14-07-505.
Only way to pass the upgrade war to change IDrive to old one (then put back Idrive Touch)
(of course I had to recode ZBE lines in NBT)


BMW dealer asked BMW to have a new FA to avoid this problem in future.
BMW said there ii no option no (SAXXX) for this Idrive Touch.

Any idea how to fix it ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

What is your FA Build date (Zeitkriterium=xxxx)?


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> What is your FA Build date (Zeitkriterium=xxxx)?


My Zeitkriterium=0713


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

login001 said:


> My Zeitkriterium=0713


Is my Zeitkriterium a good one  ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

For one, you would have to change Zeitkriterium=0714, assuming Europe production started using Touch Controler at the same time the U.S. did. However, while this may solve part of your Touch Controller Dealer programming issue, it may create other issues by itself that prevent programming, as a newer FA build date may also require other ECU's in your car be newer than what you have, or also require you have missing ECU's such as the TBX Handwriting ECU that is required for Touch ZBE if you have not also retrofitted it.

This is why the vast majority of time, retrofitted Control Units need to be removed from car in order for the Dealer to Program the car with ISTA/P.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> This is why the vast majority of time, retrofitted Control Units need to be removed from car in order for the Dealer to Program the car with ISTA/P.


Thanks Shawn.

Not easy to mislead BMW !
I will try to add a switch to avoid to have to unmount the center console each time.

What is TBX Handwriting ? My ITouch recognize my writting


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

I think you might also have to remove ZBE3 from your SVT and let it detect the new ECU. On my F30, when I first installed the touch controller, it was still ZBE2 on my SVT and I could not read the ECU at all even though it was all working. I have a new SVT written to my car and it replaced HU_CIC with HU_NBT, added TBX and also replaced ZBE2 with ZBE3. 

I'm still curious on whether or not this will pass the vehicle programming at the dealer since everything on my FA and SVT Target matches a 2014 model.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

Aritaurus said:


> ...added TBX and also replaced ZBE2 with ZBE3.
> 
> I'm still curious on whether or not this will pass the vehicle programming at the dealer since everything on my FA and SVT Target matches a 2014 model.


Hope you can pass the update.

For my understanding, kindly explain what is TBX and ZBE.

Thanks


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## Aritaurus (Sep 9, 2013)

login001 said:


> Hope you can pass the update.
> 
> For my understanding, kindly explain what is TBX and ZBE.
> 
> Thanks


ZBE is your idrive controller and TBX is the touchbox module which allows handwriting recognition.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

Aritaurus said:


> ZBE is your idrive controller and TBX is the touchbox module which allows handwriting recognition.


Thanks

Here is a picture of my equipment.
Do you recognize the version ?


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## justwaiting (Nov 4, 2003)

*Question*

Ok. I've done many retrofits in the past (E60,E70) but I'm hoping you guys can help answer some questions:

Build 03/13 - F10 M5

What do I need retrofit touch? I've only done the navigation map update and nothing else has been changed. Thanks for any help you can provide for my project!

Also is there a guide yet as all I can find is this thread.

Thanks!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

login001 said:


> ...What is TBX Handwriting ? My ITouch recognize my writting


Your bottom picture shows TBX module, so you must have retrofitted both, which is why handwriting is working.

So for you, just changing your FA Build Date and writing FA to car should allow it to pass ISTA/P Programming. The only issue then is if newer FA Build Date has and undesirable effects on the coding of other ECU's.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

justwaiting said:


> Ok. I've done many retrofits in the past (E60,E70) but I'm hoping you guys can help answer some questions:
> 
> Build 03/13 - F10 M5
> 
> ...


Since you already have NBT Head Unit, you just need to install new ZBE Touch Controller and TBX Handwriting Module and wire them to KCan2, and then VO Code NBT, ZBE, and TBX with a 0714 FA Build Date.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Your bottom picture shows TBX module, so you must have retrofitted both, which is why handwriting is working.


Corrects I retrofitted both TBX and ZBE and hand writing is OK



shawnsheridan said:


> So for you, just changing your FA Build Date and writing FA to car should allow it to pass ISTA/P Programming. The only issue then is if newer FA Build Date has and undesirable effects on the coding of other ECU's.


If I change the FA Build Date and write FA to car and then I get undesirable effects, re-putting the initial FA Build Date should solve it ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Yes, it is easily reversible.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Yes, it is easily reversible.


Only 0713 should be changed to 0714 ? or anything else too ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

That's all.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> That's all.


Cool thank you.

And the new FA Build Date will remain after upgrading ILevel ? 
Or I should rewrite it ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Change FA and write to car. Future I-Level updates will have no impact on FA.


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## login001 (Jul 12, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Change FA and write to car. Future I-Level updates will have no impact on FA.


Thanks a lot Shawn

I changed FA Build Date. And car is still working :thumbup: 

I will see the result on next ILevel upgrade.


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## asjsrs (May 5, 2013)

Im having issues retrofitting the touch.
Hope somebody can help.
As per the guide I do have kcan2 wiring according to the wire colours leading to idrive.
However when I plug the touch idrive in it is completely dead, doesn't even light up.
Also changed build date to 0714, still nothing.

I have ZBE & TBX in my svt but cannot vo code as I get an error just on these two ecu's

The tbx has been fitted in line.
My nbt is retrofitted. 
Had basic radio when built.

Thanks

Tony


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

What ZBE you have? ZE2 or ZBE3?


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## asjsrs (May 5, 2013)

I have ZBE3


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## gww50 (Apr 26, 2006)

*Success*

This works exactly as described Thank You Milkyway!

I did have to use the old trim on my F12 to get the controller to fit properly in the console. Controller came with black trim piece already on it, but it did not mount well in the mounting hole. Using the old trim from the old contoller fixed that. :thumbup:


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## NinoFR (Dec 31, 2015)

Hi All,

On my side, I have a F20 2012 with basic HU.
I have well retrofitted Kombi 6WA + NBT and upgraded my zeitkrtierium to 07/04 !

Still missing the touch iDrive controler, I am currently using the very basic one (ZBE2) that does not contains all buttons !
I would like to upgrade to ZBE3 + touch module, I have seen that the controller is not plug and play due to the fact ZBE2 runs on K-CAN and ZBE3 needs K-CAN2.
I know as well that I must rewire the CAN_L and CAN_H to pins 9 and 11 of the quadlocks that I did but does not work...

Should I use dedicated wired with twisted cables ?
Don't you have clear picture how to rewire the touch module + the controler to the NBT ?

Many many many thanks by advance.
Kind regards,
Nico


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## masa52 (Mar 1, 2012)

sorry for silly question but i did not find answer 
is any additional cable necessary to retrofit old controller for nbt?


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## xenos (Jun 2, 2015)

Hi,

I own a 3/2013, F20 with a (late 2014, early 2015 ) nbt retrofitted (with emulator). All working with coding, but I hadn't used the nbt idrive controller. I finally tried to swap, but it didn't work at all. I checked the idrive and it says bmw 6582 9350723-02, which after googling, seems to be the "touch" version. From previous posts I understand that:

1) I can use the "newer" idrive just by adding 2 more cables from nbt (or the emulator) to the idrive controller, obviously without any gesture support.

or

2) I must get another component (handwriting module? how much does this cost?) and also connect it, using the 2 new wires, in order to have the gestures.

Are above correct? 
Kindly check my idrive controller colors, as I dont seem to have the standard ones. Left = standard controller, right = nbt controller.


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello! 

You need the Can2 wires for the touch Controller.You can find it on the back of the NBT. The first 2 wires are okay (+ and -). 

CU Oliver


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## xenos (Jun 2, 2015)

milkyway said:


> Hello!
> 
> You need the Can2 wires for the touch Controller.You can find it on the back of the NBT. The first 2 wires are okay (+ and -).
> 
> CU Oliver


Hi Oliver,

thanks and some more questions :eeps: :

1) which cables are ok? Green and yellow/orange? Are those the +12/ground?
2) if (1) is yes, I must connect directly no3 & 4 (position of brown/black and yellow/red) to nbt back, on pins 9 and 11? 
3) What kind connectors do I need?
http://www.abstractations.com/bmw/nbt/pinout_nbt.jpg


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## AMF10 (Oct 4, 2016)

Does anyone have photos as to how to splice and install the TBX?

Also, is this the TBX necessary for the F10?
https://www.getbmwparts.com/parts/i...year=&model=&submodel=&searchText=65829371374


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

AMF10 said:


> Does anyone have photos as to how to splice and install the TBX?
> 
> Also, is this the TBX necessary for the F10?
> https://www.getbmwparts.com/parts/i...year=&model=&submodel=&searchText=65829371374


It only wires spliced to ZBE:

1 > 1 (12V)
2 > 2 (GND)
3 > 3 (CAN2+)
4 > 4 (CAN2 -)

Yes, 65829371374 is TBX Handwriting Module.


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## Curamrda (Aug 21, 2016)

hi...i am planning to buy f13 with NBT , but some of them does not have touch idrive it will be between 2013/11 - 2014/08 , will it have already CAN 2 cables connected to controller?

So I can only buy proper idrive touch controler and add VA codes and code ECUs?

or do I have to somehow change the i-step and flash all car to the new sw version?

what is the difference between ceramic idrives etc?

Here is example of car..it has not the new glass idrive displey, but it should be NBT...



//edit: ok, it has been told me, that this car has NOT NBT . But it looks it has the same interface ... so my question is. Is it possible to update SW on CIC, to have the new interface like on NBT (new colors, menu etc.) ? Then I will need that converter for touch idrive?

Thanks


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

Ceramic touch controller and non-ceramic touch controller are the the same. It's a question of the design, not more.

You need the controller, the touch device and nothing more. The codings are listed in this threads (only 4 entries). There's no need to vo-code the HU.

CU Oliver


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## SiMi (Feb 19, 2017)

Hi guys,

I've been trying to search through all possible coding threads on all forums known to me, or even to google  in a hope to find some hints on where my issue could be - but haven't found much :dunno: I'd be very happy for any help or hint where to look further.

I have a 2013 f30 (with NBT) that was recently (some 2 months ago) updated by the dealer to latest system versions. 

I now was also very interested in updating to the bigger touch controller (as it also seemed relatively simple), so I purchased one including the additional "touch" module on ebay. 

I tried swapping it for the old controller first - just controller for controller. The new touch controller did not work at all - it didn't even light up as the old one. I have built a Y cable to make it possible to connect it together with the touch module. But no luck either.

So I thought it needed the coding to work properly. I don't have the coding gear / knowledge myself, but happen to know a good guy who knows all this magic. We've coded all that was described as needed for the touch controller:
HU_NBT/3000_HMI/ZBE_TOUCH_INTERACTIVE_MAP set to aktiv
HU_NBT/3000_HMI/ZBE_TOUCH_SPELLER set to aktiv
HU_NBT/3000_HMI/ZBE_TOUCH_BROWSER set to aktiv
HU_NBT/3004_SYSTEM/EINSTELLUNGEN/ZBE_TOUCH set to aktiv

Coding went ok - I can see "Touchpad" option in the settings now. But as can be expected, the controller did not start working - it does not light up.

So we have tried it in his car with NBT and my touch controller worked as it should, we also tested his controller in my car, but that wasn't working either. So cables are ok, controller works, coding is probably correct... 

In addition to the feature coding, we have also increased the Zeitkriterium as advised to 0714.

Any idea what could be the reason for the controller not liking my car? Just to make sure - I am not talking about non-functional touch features, the controller does not work at all... 

Can it have something to do with having the car fully updated before, while the controller itself is from a 2013 car? Can it's module be outdated?

Thanks a lot for any possible hint!

Simi


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

The first F30 with NBT hadn't Can2 on the touch controller. There's only Can1. So you have to connect it with Can2 from your NBT or elsewhere. 

CU Oliver


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## SiMi (Feb 19, 2017)

Oh, thanks Oliver. 
I haven't thought of that! But it absolutely makes sense and must be my case :-(

Ok, so here we are with some more wire work to do  I just always wonder - why me?  Why do things never go the easy way?


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

That's Murphy's law 

CU Oliver


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## SiMi (Feb 19, 2017)

I really admire how patient and helpful some people can be... Thanks to you all out there - people like you, Oliver! 
One does realize it, when checking the forum again after asking something, just to find out the very same question was basically discussed on the 2 previous pages... :eeps: so thanks again!

I'm however afraid those Murphy's laws remain valid in my case - as I got only partially successful over the weekend - so here I am again seeking for some next step help 

I connected 2 new wires to the CAN2 cables (pins 9 and 11) on the NBT main connector and led them to the center console. As I already had the Y cable prepared, I removed the pins 3 and 4 from the "input" side of my Y cable, leaving only the 1st and 2nd pin to take the + and ground from the original can1 controller cable. 
I connected those 2 new CAN2 wires coming from the NBT so that they would go into both those "output" connectors of the Y cable, to pins 3 and 4 - pin3 to the CAN2-H (pin 11 on the nbt connector), and pin 4 the CAN2-L (pin 9 on the nbt connector).
(sorry for this stupid desc, but it's surprisingly hard to describe how 4 cables are connected) 

I had the coding done already last week, so as soon as I connected this all, everything started to work. Controller worked, and also writing on the touchpad worked. So I put all the panels back in place and called it a day.

However later that day, after about an hour drive, I did a quick stop at a petrol station, and after starting again, I got a "lighting system failure" message. All lights seemed to work correctly, only turn indicators were flashing with double speed. 
The controller stopped working as well at that very same moment (double stupid, because I could not get rid of the error message)  I went home desperate. 
About 2 hours later, I took the car out again, and everything worked without any issue - so I already thought it was just something random - maybe water got into the trailer hitch socket.

Today, I got the same error again, after driving about 20 minutes. The error message stayed for a few seconds and disappeared again, everything worked fine. But the error was coming back again and again - for a few seconds, or also for a few minutes. When this message comes, the controller gets disabled - does not work, not even it's lights - it stays black.

I double checked all the cables this evening, and I could not find anything that could be causing this. Those cables are not damaged, no sign of any short-circuits. 
I took the controller out, and replaced it with the original one, and that one worked immediately. But switching back to the new one did not work. I bet, if I would go check it now, after another 2 hours break, the new controller would work just fine again.

Would anyone have any tip what to check? I just can't think of anything that could be wrong there - had I connected the cables incorrectly to the NBT connector, the new controller would not work at all, would it? 
Could the issue be related to taking the + and ground from the original connector, but the CAN from the NBT? Could the system think that there is something taking energy from the original controller connector, but it is not the controller it would expect? 

I used some of these T-tap connectors (that's what they are called I hope) to tap the new wires to the original NBT connector cables. Not sure how solid the contact in those is - could it be that it is just loosing contact? 

Would be thankful for any hint...


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## SiMi (Feb 19, 2017)

Have just found in the description of the T-tap connetors (all my thoughts are pointing me to this place as the only possible cause of the failures), that the set contained 10 pieces of connectors for cables 0,5 - 0,75 mm and 10 pieces for 1 - 2,5 mm². I have used one of each color - so I guess the larger one could lack a proper contact. Will retap that today evening, hope dies last 

Edit: To justify myself - the connectors package was labeled: cable t tap connectors, 0,5 - 0,75 mm², 20 pieces - who would have thought, there are 2 different sizes in there :-(


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## milkyway (Jan 28, 2013)

Hello!

You connect a CAN2. To avoid interferencies you should twist the two wires.

CU Oliver


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## SiMi (Feb 19, 2017)

Oh, that's another good point...


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## BMWinFLA (Apr 21, 2017)

SiMi said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been trying to search through all possible coding threads on all forums known to me, or even to google  in a hope to find some hints on where my issue could be - but haven't found much :dunno: I'd be very happy for any help or hint where to look further.
> 
> ...





milkyway said:


> Hello!
> 
> The first F30 with NBT hadn't Can2 on the touch controller. There's only Can1. So you have to connect it with Can2 from your NBT or elsewhere.
> 
> CU Oliver


I have a 2013 F30 with NBT and in same situation.

I have read all the pages and posts. Obviously I need to connect something to CAN2

Can someone supply step by step details (any pics would be appreciated)?

As this is my first project, I'm a little nervous and would appreciate the help.

Thanks!


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## BMWinFLA (Apr 21, 2017)

yvorobyov said:


> Have same like problem.but my car has NBT which was not retrofitted but on CAN1 too.i think there can be CAN2 coming somewhere near USB port...


Is there a CAN2 connection in the center console unit near the touch controller....such as the USB?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Jaycee66 said:


> Installed and PM'd the details.


I tried, but TeamViewer is not connecting...


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## Jaycee66 (Feb 18, 2017)

Emtronika emailed through eBay.


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## masa52 (Mar 1, 2012)

I reckon all about retrofit is solved, but there is one more question which cant find the answer 
Why car after retrofit ZBE3 and TBX wants to remove it when programing ISTA/P???
All codings and build date been done properly and car still not accepting new hardware WHY?????
whats the reason?very odd


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## Degenerate (Jul 20, 2017)

Random question, but did any of you have the touch functionality before and somehow lost it? I have a '14 535i and I'm almost certain I was able to draw letters to search through music and somewhere along the line I lost that ability. I don't have the 'write' option in the touchpad setting either. I would try to code it, but I don't have that setup at all. Guessing my best bet is to check if the dealer can figure this one out? Any help is appreciated!


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## Derboy (Nov 5, 2017)

*Touch Controller working - Touch ECU not*

Hi everyone.

I've not owned my car for long but have been lurking around the forum following guides and have done a few things to my car already.

I have a 2014 M6 (pre-LCI) with a Zeitkriterium of 1113. The car came with NBT but the old iDrive controller. A few months ago I swapped out the old controller for the new touch style one and everything has been working fine (straight swap. No coding required)

I've now decided to add touch functionality and fitted the touch ECU using a pre-built wiring assembly from eBay which basically mirrors the wiring of the touch controller.

I've code the appropriated settings in HU_NBT and touch options appear in the iDrive along with the small "hand" icon in the lettering input screens. However touch functionality does not work.

ZBE3 shows up in my SVT but TBX does not. Before I tear up my centre console again to investigate the the touch ECU and wiring, have I missed a coding step? Do I need to do anything else?

Any help very much appreciated. Thank you. :thumbup:


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Derboy said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I've not owned my car for long but have been lurking around the forum following guides and have done a few things to my car already.
> 
> ...


I don't know what you bought from eBay, but assuming it is correct OEM TBX Module, you should only need to connect the 4 wires (Power, Ground, KCAN2+, and KCAN2-), then use Read ECU, not Read SVT, and TBX shoudl show in ECU List, then Inject CAFD into TBX and VO) Code it using later FA Build Date like 11/14.


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## Derboy (Nov 5, 2017)

shawnsheridan said:


> I don't know what you bought from eBay, but assuming it is correct OEM TBX Module, you should only need to connect the 4 wires (Power, Ground, KCAN2+, and KCAN2-), then use Read ECU, not Read SVT, and TBX shoudl show in ECU List, then Inject CAFD into TBX and VO) Code it using later FA Build Date like 11/14.


Hi Shawn,

Appreciate you taking the time to help me out on this. The wiring loom from ebay is just a simple loom with three connectors on it that removes the need to splice the existing wiring. Original connector that goes into the idrive controller goes in one end of the loom and the other two ends go to the controller and the touch ECU. The touch control ECU is the correct hardware based on part number.

I can follow reading the ECU but I'm still feeling my way through E-Sys (previous BMW coding was an E92), could you please explain what you mean by "inject CAFD into TBX and VO" and if it's not too much trouble would you mind walking me through what I need to do in E-Sys to do that?

Thanks very much for your help so far.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Derboy said:


> Hi Shawn,
> 
> Appreciate you taking the time to help me out on this. The wiring loom from ebay is just a simple loom with three connectors on it that removes the need to splice the existing wiring. Original connector that goes into the idrive controller goes in one end of the loom and the other two ends go to the controller and the touch ECU. The touch control ECU is the correct hardware based on part number.
> 
> ...


Connect => Read FA (VO) => Activate FA (VO) => Read SVT (VCM) => Left-Click on TBX => Click on "Detect CAF for SWE" => Select the CAFD from latest I-Level shown (bottom one) => Select OK => Right-Click on TBX (the ECU itself not the underlying CAFD) => Select CODE.


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## Derboy (Nov 5, 2017)

I'm assuming that Reading the ECU list is just a simple case of establishing a connection and then clicking the Read ECU button?

If so the list that's displayed seems to be correct but doesn't show the TBX module. So would it be safe to assume that there's a hardware/connection issue or should I be doing something else as part of the Read ECU process?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Derboy said:


> I'm assuming that Reading the ECU list is just a simple case of establishing a connection and then clicking the Read ECU button?
> 
> If so the list that's displayed seems to be correct but doesn't show the TBX module. So would it be safe to assume that there's a hardware/connection issue or should I be doing something else as part of the Read ECU process?


Yes, and if it is wired and working correctly, it should show.


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## Derboy (Nov 5, 2017)

shawnsheridan said:


> Yes, and if it is wired and working correctly, it should show.


OK. Guess I'll need to get into it again and check the connection. Least I have clear instructions now on what needs done from the coding side.

Thanks for all your help Shawn. I really appreciate it.


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## Derboy (Nov 5, 2017)

Derboy said:


> OK. Guess I'll need to get into it again and check the connection. Least I have clear instructions now on what needs done from the coding side.
> 
> Thanks for all your help Shawn. I really appreciate it.


I finally got round to checking my wiring and it turns out I hadn't fully engaged the connector going to the Touch ECU. Once I plugged it in, I tested it and touch functionality works out of the box. I only coded in the touch settings in the iDrive (HU_NBT). Havent needed to code or change anything else at all.

Thanks again for your help on this Shawn. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. :thumbup:


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Derboy said:


> I finally got round to checking my wiring and it turns out I hadn't fully engaged the connector going to the Touch ECU. Once I plugged it in, I tested it and touch functionality works out of the box. I only coded in the touch settings in the iDrive (HU_NBT). Havent needed to code or change anything else at all.
> 
> Thanks again for your help on this Shawn. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge. :thumbup:


:thumbup:


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## speed608 (Jun 24, 2016)

Sorry to bring up an old post, but would the new NBT EVO controller work on the older NBT


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## maron (Dec 24, 2014)

If your old controller is connected from CAN2, ID 5/6 controllers can be use


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## speed608 (Jun 24, 2016)

Great Thanks, I’m still waiting for my controller to arrive .


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## testcodes (Jul 12, 2018)

Hi, I'm looking into installing the touch controller for the bigger wheel. I don't care about the touch functionality though. I have a CIC right now, and I'm assuming KCAN1 lines on the existing controller. If I rewire for KCAN2, would it work as a regular joy stick/scroll wheel if I install just the controller with to ECU module?


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## pegasus48 (Nov 7, 2018)

milkyway said:


> Hello!
> 
> You need the Can2 wires for the touch Controller.You can find it on the back of the NBT. The first 2 wires are okay (+ and -).
> 
> CU Oliver


Hi Oliver,I bought a 6582 9350723-03 idrive with nbt. I have connected 1(12v) ,2(gnd ),3(canH),4(can L) and tried to see if there is any signal activation by osciloscope.the communication does not start.I have connected it to can bus diognastic tool ( neoVIfire)but can't activate it.What should we do.thanks.
[email protected]


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