# UPDATE!!! NewTIS.info CLOSED [OPEN reopened!!!]per demand of BMW AG. 1700 CST 08 Oct 2020



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

new*TIS*.info
*Site Closed*
*This site is closed per demands of BMW AG.*
BMW recommends the official and up-to-date BMW TIS which can be accessed at www.bmwtis.com*.
* However, we believe that BMW violates the right to repair by effectively locking out individual consumers from basic repair information through unreasonably high access fees.
Contact us via the feedback form below if you have any questions about this update.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

The Right To Repair at the Coalition for Auto Repair Equality






Careauto.org







www.careauto.org


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Wow that is a huge loss to BMW community!


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

*Electronic Frontiers Foundation. Defend Your Right to Repair!*









Defend Your Right to Repair!


(and Tinker, Make, Re-use, or Break) More and more, your devices come embedded with software. From phones to cars to refrigerators to farm equipment, software is helping your stuff work better and smarter, with awesome new features. Cool, right? Yep... until it breaks and you want to fix it...




www.eff.org


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Personally it means that I have to find other relief from reading _The GULAG Archipelago_ by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. I'm half way through Volume I of III


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## doncharlos (Oct 8, 2020)

Doug Huffman said:


> Personally it means that I have to find other relief from reading [i}The GULAG Archipelago[/i] by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. I'm half way through Volume I of III


Really disappointed to see the closure of newtis.info. I hope that this results in legal action to allow them to reopen. I feel your pain with the Gulag Archipelago. I got about 80 pages into the abridged version and it just bummed me out so much I chose to stop.


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## mangos86 (Oct 26, 2019)

This is incredibly frustrating! I was just on it earlier today!


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

My guess is that BMWNA/BMWAG monitors bimmerfest and are not happy about the newTIS links posted here(leaking of proprietary and confidential information).


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## wcr3d (Jul 17, 2012)

You know we have been doing that for years, they knew it too.
Something else is going on. 
Though I do bet it is related to the recent issues with VIN decoding sites.
That is going to put a damper on a lot of DIY.
I would suggest we follow Dougs lead and sign at EFF


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Y’all need to study up on the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Copyright allows Fair Use. I-ANAL I don’t believe that a Universal Resorce Locator URL can be copyright. 

I believe that the VIN decoding site issues are purely profit driven, just more click through click-bait.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Doug Huffman said:


> Y'all need to study up on the Digital Millenium Copyright Act. Copyright allows Fair Use. I-ANAL I don't believe that a Universal Resorce Locator URL can be copyright.
> 
> I believe that the VIN decoding site issues are purely profit driven, just more click through click-bait.


It depends if BMWAG/BMWNA owns the content. E.g. they can easily slap "proprietary and confidential" on every page, and the "copyright allows fair use" argument is ceremonially sidestepped.


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## Andy325is (Mar 29, 2017)

That's a shame they took it down. I guess I'm not surprised since it's an industry trend to lock away repair info as a high priced subscription model. Here's a page that compares the subscription rates for the various manufactures. BMW's prices seem extreme, but some are more. JLR wants $44 for just an hour of access.






OEM Repair Info Subscription Price Matrix


Subscription Pricing for OEM technical information websites



oemrepairinfo.ca


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## oilverland (Aug 6, 2016)

Traded by BMW X3 in just recently. Already foreswore BMW forever. Indeed closing newtis chases away customers.


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## Nerdboss (Jun 23, 2013)

After 4 BMW this one will be my last. This was a resource that many used and now its gone.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

250 a month?

Easy peasy. 

My 'shop' is called "Bimmerfest Motors Service CEnter". We have a lot of mechanics.


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## mangos86 (Oct 26, 2019)

ard said:


> 250 a month?
> 
> Easy peasy.
> 
> My 'shop' is called "Bimmerfest Motors Service CEnter". We have a lot of mechanics.


Great idea

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

I figured it was only a matter of time. The subscription rates to BMW's TIS is $30/24 hours, $250/month, or $2500/year.

With my non-BMW's, I always buy the factory shop manuals, which are several hundred dollars. By the time you really need them, they're out of print. I get some of my money back by selling them with the cars.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Autoputzer said:


> I figured it was only a matter of time. The subscription rates to BMW's TIS is $30/24 hours, $250/month, or $2500/year.
> 
> With my non-BMW's, I always buy the factory shop manuals, which are several hundred dollars. By the time you really need them, they're out of print. I get some of my money back by selling them with the cars.


My F30 Bentley manual was bought when first published for $85, or 35% off. It was quickly flipped for $150. 

Maybe it is time to buy back a copy, but given N20/N26 TC issue, maybe the car will be sold around class action coverage runs out.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

ALL Intellectual Property is explicitly copyright upon creation. 

How is ‘Bentleys’ different from NewTIS in their rights to BMW IP? NewTIS is low hanging fruit, cheap virtual low volume ad supported. Has any one checked with RealOEM?

I bought a hard copy of a ‘Bentley’ for my VW TDI and shortly ‘Bentley’ demanded a subscription security model that basically made the copy that I purchased unusable and too expensive to try to use. That was during the era of the 80K mile timing belt ticking off its miles and counting down to failure at 80K+1. Without that collection of technical information I had to repair to first principles - and ran my 2003 TDI for 180,000 miles until I sold it.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

RealOEM is up at this moment. I notice that the layout of the front page is familiar, similar to NewTIS. I notice that RealOEM claims copyright to BMW information. We will see. Maybe RealOEM purchased license from BMW.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Pete_NZ said:


> Someone please enlighten someone from another country. How does "right to repair" equate to " right to be told how to repair"?


Because the mfg could quite simply make repair IMPOSSIBLE.

Without these laws, each mfg could make their cars a closed system and require owners to only used licensed BMW dealers. Obviously you could still do mechanical work, but no idea on torques. Imagine if BMW didnt publish part numbers? If BMW refused to sell parts to the public? They refused to tell you what parts were in the car?

To be honest, I dont know if TIS is some 'legally mandated minima'... is it more than the law requires in some ways? perhaps. Is it "how to repair a BMW" as you put it? Nope. So not sure where the line is....


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## Pete_NZ (Jan 28, 2018)

DJ-Ohms....
Doesn’t really clarify the distinction. You’ve essentially just said it’s they’re same thing because you believe it. “I’ve bought something therefore I should be shown how to fix it.”


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## Pete_NZ (Jan 28, 2018)

ard said:


> ...Obviously you could still do mechanical work, but no idea on torques. .... So not sure where the line is....


Yes that seems the pertinent point - Where is the line? 
Torque spec is a good example of info required to perform repair. Wiring & circuit diagrams in consumer goods seem to be another.


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## ShaunX5 (Sep 26, 2020)

2 weeks ago I found newtis. It gave me the confidence to buy a BMW. I didn’t realise it wasn’t “blessed” Or at least permitted by ignoring it by the manufacturer.

Currently have a merc and dislike their equivalent of ISTA/etc. I’ve only got it working on a clunky slow half broken laptop That came with the diag tool. I mean it works, but it’s really slow and annoying. This factors into my decision to replace it with a BMW.

BMW doesn’t care about me because I’m a second owner. They’ve already sold the car to the first owner and had their profit. Their only chance to make a profit from me beyond parts is to paywall the docs like they have and/or force me to goto a shop to have the work done.

Personally I think this is a poor approach because ultimately it hurts consumers. I would hope (but it probably won’t) that it causes newer BMWs to depreciate even faster because second and third owners will be even more shy to buy a car they can’t reasonably access documentation for. The faster depreciation might make first owners think about a different car and thus BMW lose out on some sales. Probably a pipe dream though because all manufacturers are trying their hardest to force you back to the dealer for everything thus making a shittier level playing field for all of us. If they could outlaw topping up your washer bottle yourself, I’m sure they would.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

I hope then that you and y’all will become Open Access and Right to Repair activists.


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## Turbo2Pete (Jan 20, 2017)

I popped in today when I saw the title.... which now seems a bit confusing - I thought I was going to see that they reversed - but I guess not... 

So, what 'reopened' then???


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## Edgy36-39 (Jan 29, 2008)

At least RealOEM is still up, and has been for so many years. I found NewTIS useful for things like capacity questions. As someone already said, this will make DIYers increasingly reliant on parts providers for detailed instructions. As well as online communities like this one of course. We'll never be stopped, but we'll also never have the financial clout to make BMW care.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

I wonder how much the RealOEM license costs its sponsors - all dot.coms


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## RAZ1777 (May 18, 2012)

Doug Huffman said:


> The Right To Repair at the Coalition for Auto Repair Equality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Massachusetts has a Right to Repair vote this election that includes telematics info. The car companies are funding a major campaign to fight it.


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## CaffeineJay (Jul 11, 2020)

ard said:


> 250 a month?
> 
> Easy peasy.
> 
> My 'shop' is called "Bimmerfest Motors Service CEnter". We have a lot of mechanics.


 You mind sharing that code and user?


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## CaffeineJay (Jul 11, 2020)

fofinha_0 said:


> The only reason I can drive a BMW is because I am able to do all maintenance and keep my costs low. I use real oem, and NewTis all the time, and made several purchases in parts. I know BMW is hurting financially right now, and shutting down access to information will ensure their demise. Most of us are BMW enthusiast, because we can work on these cars good information. BMW will lose all of us now as they have lost their new car customers. People running BMW right now are taking it to the ground.
> I will be looking at these communities to see if a different source of information becomes available. Yes I do have ISTA. and it helps. Lets hope we dont lose real oem next.


Can assist me on how I can attain the ISTA and is it apple mac friendly? I was out of states (deployed). Now I cant work on the wifes x5 and my f30 on my own.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

CaffeineJay said:


> Can assist me on how I can attain the ISTA and is it apple mac friendly? I was out of states (deployed). Now I cant work on the wifes x5 and my f30 on my own.


I do not believe that any BMW communication program is ported to other than Windoze. Thank you for your service. USN SS ‘69 - ‘75


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## subdude (Apr 11, 2013)

CaffeineJay said:


> Can assist me on how I can attain the ISTA and is it apple mac friendly? I was out of states (deployed). Now I cant work on the wifes x5 and my f30 on my own.


I have a Mac as well and was just considering buying a laptop to run the software.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

I got fed up with Windoze after a career that started with DOS. Then I fought Linux Fedora Red Hat configuration for five years - cause it ran fine on my old laptop. Then I gave up again and gave up everything that iOS can’t do.


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## subdude (Apr 11, 2013)

Doug Huffman said:


> I got fed up with Windoze after a career that started with DOS. Then I fought Linux Fedora Red Hat configuration for five years - cause it ran fine on my old laptop. Then I gave up again and gave up everything that iOS can’t do.


Well, I recently replaced the Telematics Control Unit. It was not easy to identify the correct replacement part. I started with my local BMW dealer who informed me that BMW no longer produced the replacement. That turned out to be false. After I found the correct part I had to pay $240 for programming. Seems like at some point I may be better off investing in the tools that would enable me to do the coding on my own.


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## CaffeineJay (Jul 11, 2020)

subdude said:


> Well, I recently replaced the Telematics Control Unit. It was not easy to identify the correct replacement part. I started with my local BMW dealer who informed me that BMW no longer produced the replacement. That turned out to be false. After I found the correct part I had to pay $240 for programming. Seems like at some point I may be better off investing in the tools that would enable me to do the coding on my own.


I can agree I’m struggling with programming the trunk on the x5


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