# 2005 M3 orders



## dkim1 (Sep 5, 2004)

I've been sitting here waiting for word from my BMW dealer on when my 2005 M3 order will come in and I was wondering if anyone out there who is also ordering has had any better luck than me. I'm dying here waiting!


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Do you have a production number? Or is that what you are waiting for?


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## dkim1 (Sep 5, 2004)

bren said:


> Do you have a production number? Or is that what you are waiting for?


No production number yet. I hate call and bug them continuously.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Well then you aren't waiting for your order to come in, you are waiting for your order to be placed. 

You should have gotten a production # when you placed the order. If you dealer doesn't have any allocations they should be either trading with another dealer or at the very least they should be able to tell you when their next open allocation is.


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## dkim1 (Sep 5, 2004)

bren said:


> Well then you aren't waiting for your order to come in, you are waiting for your order to be placed.
> 
> You should have gotten a production # when you placed the order. If you dealer doesn't have any allocations they should be either trading with another dealer or at the very least they should be able to tell you when their next open allocation is.


MMM...I think someone is messing with me. I'm calling them tomorrow or going somewhere else. Thanks for the the tip.


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## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

yup, you should get the Production # with in a day of placing the order... they called me the next day with mine... as it is issued as soon as NA ok's the order.


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## dkim1 (Sep 5, 2004)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> yup, you should get the Production # with in a day of placing the order... they called me the next day with mine... as it is issued as soon as NA ok's the order.


Do you guys think it may be too early for a 2005 production # to be processed or is this dealer giving me the run-around. I don't know why they would since I agreed to pay MSRP.


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## dkim1 (Sep 5, 2004)

dkim1 said:


> Do you guys think it may be too early for a 2005 production # to be processed or is this dealer giving me the run-around. I don't know why they would since I agreed to pay MSRP.


Nevermind. I just found an allocation in a neigboring town and just called my dealer and gave him hell. I should get a production # today! :freakdanc


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

dkim1 said:


> Nevermind. I just found an allocation in a neigboring town and just called my dealer and gave him hell. I should get a production # today! :freakdanc


There you go...see it's not that hard. Congrats. Are you still paying MSRP


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## mtbscott (Jul 16, 2003)

Brian Harris in Baton Rouge is generally known for being pretty good at dealing. I once bought an Audi from them rather than deal with Houston dealers. No need to pay MSRP for a M3 these days.


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## dkim1 (Sep 5, 2004)

mtbscott said:


> Brian Harris in Baton Rouge is generally known for being pretty good at dealing. I once bought an Audi from them rather than deal with Houston dealers. No need to pay MSRP for a M3 these days.


My bargaining skills suck. The lady in Tyler, Tx told me she could scratch off a couple of hundred off MSRP but that's about it. I've got the guy here in Shreveport trying to get an allocation but I only gave him to the end of the day.

Thanks for the Baton Rouge tip but it's a bit far for me to travel to get a car and have it serviced there too.

I want one so bad I can taste it!


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

If you aren't looking for some strange configuration you should have the dealer do a search for an 04 that fits your needs. You can save A LOT of money and get it much, much sooner.


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## TJS///M3 (Sep 13, 2004)

Hey guys - 

Sorry to throw my 0.02 in, but what exactly do you all mean by an "allocation"? 

Do you mean that you cant walk into any 'ole BMW dealer and place an order for an '05 and have them get it for you? In other words, the dealership is only allocated "X" number of M3s and cant get any others after that? 

Sorry, I just want to understand since I want to shop around at a few dealers dangling an '05 M3 club sport order in front of them and get the best deal.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

TJS///M3 said:


> In other words, the dealership is only allocated "X" number of M3s and cant get any others after that?


Yes. Unless they trade with another dealer....say the other dealer wants more X5's or something, they will trade to gain extra allocations of one or another model.

This is the way I understand it anyway (one of the dealers may chime in and correct me if that's wrong.)


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## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

Lets say that dealer A has 3 slots for Oct, he uses all of them up then is forced to call Dealer B, who has an extra and try to do a deal... usually trading for a future slot to be named later, or some other car/SAV which they need.

trouble with early production dates is that often dealer b will be unwilling to trade for a slot so early in the production and dealer a might even have to BUY a slot from someone... depends on demand.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> yup, you should get the Production # with in a day of placing the order... they called me the next day with mine... as it is issued as soon as NA ok's the order.


A slight clarification:

Each month, the dealer gets a number of allocations for each model based on their sales projections for that model, as well as their past turn rates. This usually happens in the third week of the month, and the allocations are production slots for two months ahead. So, a few weeks ago (late September), we received our November allocations. As soon as you get them, they already have a production number. This is how they are transferred from BMWNA to the dealers, and from dealer to dealer, before they have a VIN.

Once your dealer has a list of allocated vehicles, he/she can then go through and build them to his/her desired specs for dealer stock, as well as to fill customer orders. They come in standard "default configurations", but most dealers change those to meet their needs. The orders stay in 111 status for a while, where they can be modified over and over again. Once they hit 112, they can still be modified up to a certain point up until they are just about to go into production (150). So, when you are placing an order, your dealer has a production number IMMEDIATELY. He doesn't have to wait to get it from BMWNA-- he has it in front of him while he's submitting your order. You shouldn't have to wait a day or two-- you should get it before you leave! If there is no production number, that is because the dealer has no allocated unit, and has to either trade for one with another dealer, or wait for the next allocation cycle and hope that it includes the car they need.

So, in summary: *Your dealer doesn't have to submit an order to get a production number. It's the opposite-- he CAN'T submit an order unless he already HAS a production number for an available car.* The exception for this is ED, where units do not come out of allocations (with obvious exceptions to that noted).


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

bren said:


> Yes. Unless they trade with another dealer....say the other dealer wants more X5's or something, they will trade to gain extra allocations of one or another model.
> 
> This is the way I understand it anyway (one of the dealers may chime in and correct me if that's wrong.)


Yep, that's it. Each month, we get a month's worth of build allocations. So, at this time, I could look on my availability and see all of the build spots that BMWNA allocated to my dealer, as well as the week and month in which they will be built. How many cars I get is based on how big of a dealer I am, how many cars I sell, and how quickly I sell each model. It's essentially a "burn and turn" system-- each car I sell will be replaced with another unit of that same model a few months down the road.

For example, lets say that I have about 3 or 4 M3s allocated to me for next month's production. In the event I had already sold all of those M3s, and I had another customer that wanted one, I'd have to either swap for an M3 by giving a dealer something else (whatever they want and whatever I'm willing to give them) in return for an open M3 allocation, or I'd have to have my customer wait until I got my next round of allocations. This is why when the M3 came out (and the same goes with other hot models), the wait was long because dealers had lists of customers waiting, and only so many allocations per month. They can't sell as many cars as they want to, only as many as they can get allocated. And when a car is "hot", another dealer won't trade for another model because they have their own list of customers waiting.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

TJS///M3 said:


> Hey guys -
> 
> Sorry to throw my 0.02 in, but what exactly do you all mean by an "allocation"?
> 
> ...


The secret of the system.

BMWNA only has so many cars they can sell, because BMWAG only gives them so many cars to sell. Therefore, each dealer only gets a certain number of cars to sell.

That is why there are not dealers out there that sell as many cars as they can get at a fixed cost over invoice in order to just get huge volume-- they can only sell so many cars before they have sold out their allocation, and have no more ways to obtain cars to sell. The relatively limited availability of each car means that the dealer has some reason to keep the prices higher, because they can only sell so many cars.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

The market must be getting softer. The dealer I bought mine from had a new '04 M3 Cab in their weekly newspaper display ad at 5K off MSRP. The picture was a stock picture of a LSB, so maybe they're really trying to move that one. :dunno: 

Alex


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## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

great clarification sarafil, I just took a shot at it...got sort of close for an outsider though.

they did phone my PN the following day. maybe it was computer issues? or the fact I was getting Individual which needed NA approval.

anyway, thaks.


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## Jever (Apr 16, 2003)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> or the fact I was getting Individual which needed NA approval.anyway, thaks.


What are you getting, Individual paint?


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Cowboy Bebop said:


> great clarification sarafil, I just took a shot at it...got sort of close for an outsider though.
> 
> they did phone my PN the following day. maybe it was computer issues? or the fact I was getting Individual which needed NA approval.
> 
> anyway, thaks.


Nah... most likely, they didn't place your order until the next day, and that's why they didn't give you the production number then.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> The market must be getting softer. The dealer I bought mine from had a new '04 M3 Cab in their weekly newspaper display ad at 5K off MSRP. The picture was a stock picture of a LSB, so maybe they're really trying to move that one. :dunno:
> 
> Alex


The picture is for illustration purposes only. I don't know many dealers that color-match the pictures in their ads to the actual car they're selling. They usually just use a stock file photo.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> The picture is for illustration purposes only. I don't know many dealers that color-match the pictures in their ads to the actual car they're selling. They usually just use a stock file photo.


Yeah I figured as much. I'm just surprised that they've gotten that aggressive. First of all, I've never seen them advertise a new M3, and secondly 5K is over double what most of us have seen them go for in this area just in the past several months. And I'm assuming that it means there's still a little room for negotiation.

Alex


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Yeah I figured as much. I'm just surprised that they've gotten that aggressive. First of all, I've never seen them advertise a new M3, and secondly 5K is over double what most of us have seen them go for in this area just in the past several months. And I'm assuming that it means there's still a little room for negotiation.
> 
> Alex


2005s are at the VPC ready to ship, and dealers still have 2004s. With the first frost behind us (at least up here), it's that time of year when people generally don't want to buy cars like M3s. If anyone out there wants an M3 and is willing to do a 2004 (and is a bit flexible on colors, options), now is the time to act.


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## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

Jever said:


> What are you getting, Individual paint?


yes, and due to a paint discontinuation mid production, I had to wait almost 9 months to get the damn thing!

you are probably correct Sarafil, as it was very late here on the west cost and the secretaries had all gone home and I suspect my Salesguy was a computer illiterate!


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## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

Sarafil, your posts are very informative. I've been planning on placing an order for an '05 M3 convertible with specific colors (TiAg, Imola Red inside). Is there a way to do a search of national inventory to see if an '04 is possibly sitting out there? I'd imagine its a very longshot since IR leather is probably not a common color ordered for dealer stock, but maybe an order was cancelled/delivery not taken somewhere??? Otherwise, I'm preparing to fax offers for $1500 below MSRP to the 4 dealers in my area for an '05 and see who is willing to take it. I'm familiar with someone in the area who recently placed a new order and got MSRP minus $1500, so that's why I've chosen that offer price. I wouldn't mind finding an '04 though and being able to shave another couple of thousand off. Thanks for all your help here.


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## TJS///M3 (Sep 13, 2004)

Sarafil and others, thanks for the information.

Couple more questions if you will 

Is it possible to go into several dealerships and simply ask what their allocation is and how many production slots they have for the upcoming months? Will they not want to tell me since they will be worried that I'll walk out and goto another dealer if they have none? And if the dealer I walk into is not a large dealer and has fewer allocations, would he be more or less willing to deal on price? Or does the size of the dealership not matter, and only the number of slots matter at the time I want to place the order?

One last thing.. Sarafil, you said that allocations were based on their sales projections for that model, as well as their past turn rates. Well, to me this seems like something that can be "fudged". In other words, I'm a dealer and I notice that the Club Sport option is coming out in December for the M3. I know I'll want additional M3 allocation in order to sell more cars, or even to trade with larger dealerships who dont have any more allocation - can I fudge numbers and get more slots? How often are the number of production slots adjusted?


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

jetstream23 said:


> Is there a way to do a search of national inventory to see if an '04 is possibly sitting out there?


Yes, your dealer/salesman can search through the inventory....most likely they will only search local or regional dealers though as those are the most likely to make the trade, and the easiest to get the car transferred from.


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## ACS3art (Dec 23, 2003)

hey guys i just got my m-3 a few months 
got 2500 off is this a good deal for 2004 new


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## ACS3art (Dec 23, 2003)

i know is a little late 
just ask what everybody pay for there car
thanx again :dunno:


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## PINHEAD (Oct 3, 2004)

*Hard To Wait... Goy It Finally*

JUST GOT MY AW M3 WITH EXACT COLOR MATCH (WHITE/BLACK) AND OPTIONS
WHILE GETTING GOOD TRADE IN FOR 2004 330CI.

GOT ALMOST $X,000 OFF MSRP WITH MY KICK-ASS NEGO & PRESENTATION SKILL.

SOOOO HAPPY... NOT BECAUSE I RIP MY STEALER OFF BUT MY NEW BABY IS MORE THAN WHAT I HAVE ANTICIPATED ... FAST ...FAST...GONE........ :beerchug:


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## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

ACS3art said:


> i know is a little late
> just ask what everybody pay for there car
> thanx again :dunno:


At this point '04's should be had for a little over invoice. New '05 orders seem to be getting about $1,000 or a little more below MSRP. The difference between an '04 on the lot and a newly ordered '05 seems to be about $2,500 to $3,000.


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## FSelekler (Jan 15, 2002)

$2K over invoice does seem quite easy to get per my experience on 05s :dunno:


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## bdb (Mar 14, 2002)

So can people confirm they are getting on the lot m3's for close to invoice?


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## Cowboy Bebop (May 17, 2003)

alot of that depends on the location you live in, if it is a high turnover area with lots of demand, tougher to Negotiate, in smaller, less demand areas you have more room to deal.

and pinhead, STOP YELLING!


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

FSelekler said:


> $2K over invoice does seem quite easy to get per my experience on 05s :dunno:


 

I don't think he's talking about a rally car FT


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## FSelekler (Jan 15, 2002)

bren said:


> I don't think he's talking about a rally car FT


Ooops, I thought he wanted an 05 STi; sorry guys, silly me.


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