# Why can't California pass this law!



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

Kaz said:


> "Rechtsfahren," as this is called in German, is supposed to be taken into consideration in proper expressway design. It's been a decade since I took the classes where this was discussed, but flow and capacity criteria for limited access roadway design/planning/assessment definitely does not ignore 'drive right/pass left.'


Rechtsfahren, whatever that is, makes sense in Germany. See my first post.
The issue is: does it make sense in USA, with the constraints we have here? If so, why haven't we instituted it nationwide? Is the US, the birthplace of automobiles, so naive, undeveloped and archaic in road design?


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> The only time that would happen is when 2 slow pokes are driving side by side with their cruise control on.


No. It happens when people who can't maintain a steady speed are driving next to each other and move relative to each other without ever leaving enough of a gap for someone to go by. It happens when you go to pass a slowpoke on the right, only to find that a more law-abiding slowpoke is already in the right lane. It happens when, even when there is a path, you have to make 10 lane changes in a mile, instead of two (around to the left and back to the right). It happens when you have to make those lane changes by making WAGs about whether there will be a slow or fast car in front of you when you pass car x on the right or left.

Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense any other way. Rechtsfahren = Very light traffic - only the right lane is utilized. Moderate traffic - the right lane is full of traffic going about the same speed, and some slightly faster traffic is moving mostly in the next lane over, and passing in the far left lane. Heavy traffic - the right and middle lanes are full of traffic going about the same speed, faster in the middle lane, and the far left lane is traveling faster than both. In your scenario, there are people who would otherwise be in the right or middle lanes in the far left lane, slowing the entire flow of traffic down.

I can drive from Seattle to Vancouver, BC, and note that on I-5, three lanes will be more congested than two on the freeway in Canada, with similar traffic volume; Canadians are just better about driving right/passing left, and that transition is very informative.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> The issue is: does it make sense in USA, with the constraints we have here? If so, why haven't we instituted it nationwide? Is the US, the birthplace of automobiles, so naive, undeveloped and archaic in road design?


No, we have such lousy drivers.

I'm assuming our low licensing standards are the constraints you mention, and that's what this is suppoesd to begin to address. Make people aware of their responsibilities as drivers.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

JetBlack330i said:


> Rechtsfahren, whatever that is, makes sense in Germany. See my first post.
> The issue is: does it make sense in USA, with the constraints we have here? If so, why haven't we instituted it nationwide? Is the US, the birthplace of automobiles, so naive, undeveloped and archaic in road design?


Americans today would never obey such a law, even if it would be beneficial to traffic.

There is no problem with roadway design WRT rechtsfahren. It's the people.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

JetBlack330i said:


> In those cases, having the flexibility to pass in any lane would be superior (traffic flow wise) than passing on one lane only, no?


No. Allowing passing on both sides creates more opportunities for people to collide when they converge into the same lane. (Guy in the 1 lane starts to pass on the right via the 2 lane, and a guy in the 3 lane starts to pass on the left via the 2 lane, collision.)

Think about when you're walking in a hallway. Do you have an easier time maneuvering through a busy hallway when people walk on the right, or when they walk on both the right and left? Say you're walking down the middle of the hallway and someone else is coming toward you. Is it easier if you both move to the right, or if you just pick whichever one you want?



JetBlack330i said:


> Is the US, the birthplace of automobiles, so naive, undeveloped and archaic in road design?


I don't think the US qualifies as "the birthplace of automobiles." There were automobile prototypes created all over the world in the 19th Century, but a lot of the quality stuff came from Germany. The Otto engine was developed by the father of one of BMW's founders and Daimler-Benz is supposed to be the first car company (and argues their first automobile prototypes had the most lasting impact). Plus, Germany has the Autobahn.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Basically, everybody thinks that traffic laws ought to be strictly enforced -- except for those laws that they don't like.

If one were to enforce the speed limits AND the "rolling roadblock" law 100% we would have one completely vacant lane on each road -- because NOBODY drives slower than the speed limit, so nobody could legally pass anyone at any time.

Now if you make the assumption that "I can drive as fast as I want, speed limits be damned" why can't someone else make the assumption that "I can drive in any lane I want"? Same logic.

Do our traffic laws here in the US drag everyone down to the lowest common denominator? YES!
Are these the laws? Sadly, yes also.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

doeboy said:


> We have plenty of signs that say "SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT" and people don't get it.  :tsk:


Because nobody considers themselves as driving slow. And any body driving faster than themselve is driving TOO FAST.

When we used to be into sracing sailboats, they coment was, nobody owns the slowest sailboat in teh marina. They ALL will brag about the one time tehy passed someone else.


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> The issue is: does it make sense in USA, with the constraints we have here? If so, why haven't we instituted it nationwide? Is the US, the birthplace of automobiles, so naive, undeveloped and archaic in road design?
> 
> 
> The Roadstergal said:
> ...


Thank you. 
I don't necessarily agree with the "lousy drivers" comment, but single lane passing is wishful thinking until we fix the drivers to your expectation level.

(RGal, just curious... have you ever traveled abroad? If yes, to which countries?)


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

They should put it in place all over the US... those f-ers driving their POS cars in the fast lane just piss me off... in Germany you will get ticketed if you drive too slow in the left lane...:thumbup: 
Right lane is the place to be for those people...


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

Bob Clevenger said:


> If one were to enforce the speed limits AND the "rolling roadblock" law 100% we would have one completely vacant lane on each road -- because NOBODY drives slower than the speed limit, so nobody could legally pass anyone at any time.


Not quite true. The speed limit is ordinarily the MAXIMUM speed at which the <insert your favorite governing or law enforcement organization here> has deteremined it will let you go. On some roads, there is also a minimum speed at which you should be going, but not all roads have that. In either instance, there is a range of legal speeds at which people could (and do) drive, so there is never a case where everyone is going the speed limit (or even the exact same speed, whatever it is). There are times when you get to a wall of cars all going the same speed and clogging all the lanes, but that is not "everyone" on the road.

Those going a slow (but still legal) speed in the right lane could be (legally) passed by someone going at a higher speed (up to the speed limit) in the left lane. Problem is that sometimes folks will be going at a higher speed in the left lane than those in the right lane, but still not going the speed limit, thus blocking someone going the speed limit in the left lane. And flashing them, more often than not, does not give them the hint 'cause they aren't looking around but are fixated on either the road itself or the tail lights of the driver in front of them.

Now bring in all those folks who drive faster than the posted speed limits. Sure they are breaking the law, but they guy in front of them who is still doing less than the speed limit in the left lane should not be the one to enforce the law on his own. He should still show some curtesy by moving to the right as soon as it is safe to do so, and let the guy pass.


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> Thank you.
> I don't necessarily agree with the "lousy drivers" comment, but single lane passing is wishful thinking until we fix the drivers to your expectation level.
> 
> (RGal, just curious... have you ever traveled abroad? If yes, to which countries?)


I know where you're going with this, yes, compared to countries like china or wherever, yes, americans are not that bad drivers, but compared to europe (especially german) drivers i've seen, americans are very lousy indeed. driving on the german autobahn was a revelation and an enlightening experience.

On a separate note, i found this comment from teh article to be :madrazz:  :tsk:

"Shipley said some of the drivers she's stopped have admitted they were deliberately driving under the speed limit in the left lane in an effort to prevent others from speeding."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

JetBlack330i said:


> How's that supposed to prevent traffic congestion?
> It might work on Autobahn, but not in America, unless they increase the speed limit.


It works very well here, and we do not have 5 lane freeways.

I saw a lot of this left lane "sitting" when I was recently back in the US, and I was a little shocked. Drivers going even under the speed limit, talking on their mobile phones, and completely oblivious to the fact they were causing traffic.

I am not sure which is a larger fine here: passing on the right, or sitting in the passing lane.

.


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## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

Americans are not a disciplined society. At least not when they get in their cars. They are also very negligent and absent-minded drivers which is surprising given how much they commute daily.
I commonly use a right lane for passing. This would yield me a huge ticket in some European countries. Here, it's a necessity because the left lanes are always blocked by slow and bewildered drivers.
Cops/CHP are not interested in enforcing the traffic safety laws. They are purely a revenue raising machine. They will concentrate on hunting you down for doing 100MPH on an empty I-5 but will not even blink when they see people change lanes without signaling, joining traffic without looking, running red lights and going around you to pass you as you come to a stop at the pedestrian crossing (actually the first time I saw someone do that here I was shocked - this is probably one of the most stupid and dangerous things you can do on the road). All this while probably talking on their cell phones.
But what can you expect. The culture of driving is nonexistant here. The driver's license education and test are a joke. Driving is seen as a citizen's right rather than a privilage. And when you ever try to point out someone's mistake on the road, they will not apologize or at the very least acknowledge it but will treat you as their worst enemy and try to road rage you.


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## Meiac09 (Jan 2, 2006)

Wallenrod said:


> The driver's license education and test are a joke. Driving is seen as a citizen's right rather than a privilage.


Thanks... that will comfort the 90% of people who fail their road test up here because they went 15.1 in a 15... 
Then again, we can't take it online, but i agree whooleheartedly that there needs to be 5-15 mph increase nationwide, traffic flows at 90 in a 65 when you go up north, and the cops aren't there...

AANNDD since i am young, if i get a ticket for one over, i automatically lose my license... Both of those... need to change. (at least for a year)


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

...thread back from the dead. 



> Shipley said some of the drivers she's stopped *have admitted they were deliberately driving under the speed limit in the left lane in an effort to prevent others from speeding.*
> 
> "They don't need to be playing police," Shipley said. "That's not their job."
> 
> Worse, slow drivers in the left lane can cause tailgating and road rage.


That confirms my paranoia... these left lane hogs are doing this on purpose.


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## sdbrandon (Mar 18, 2006)

New laws cost a lot of money, especially if you want them enforced. Simply putting a new law on the books is not enough.


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## fuz (Feb 6, 2002)

Not sure about anyone else, but I belive there is a legitimate need to speed past trucks and other large vehicles, since driving behind, or in their blind spots is dangerous.


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## Meiac09 (Jan 2, 2006)

fuz said:


> Not sure about anyone else, but I belive there is a legitimate need to speed past trucks and other large vehicles, since driving behind, or in their blind spots is dangerous.


:thumbup: 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

absolutely!!!!


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