# I need some advice guys... 530i wagon, X5 or (and forgive me) a Toyota Landcrusier



## Belushi (Feb 4, 2003)

As some of you know I drive a '03 530i. I love it and take care of it religiously. The problem I am having is that my wife and I need to get a second car and I am having a hard time to decide as to what to get. I posted this thread in the X5 section http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=775836#post775836

so read that and let me know what you think. Also those of you in here that have families and understand my desire to have a tank for my wife and my kids to come, what is your opinion on the 5 series station wagon? I know Jon Shafer had got one around the same time I got mine so Jon if you read this please let me know what you think. I don't want to have lease payments for ever and that is why I want a car/suv that will last 8-10 years.

As always your opinions are appreciated and I hope you can help steer me in the right direction as you helped me with my 530i purchase.

Cheers, 
Peter


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

Perhpaps my thoughts are better directed in the X serues forum as that was my choice, but I made a similar set of decisions within the last month.

I wanted a truck for hauling stuff from Home Depot, the kid on the way, and for my new commute which includes parking outside everyday. I drove all the trucks and I'll spare you the details. 

What ended up happening was that I drove a 2004 CPO X5 3.0 and knew it was right. For the resale, saftey, drive, and utility, I knew this was the right car. I kept the 540 and the 330, but I see it as only a matter of time before my wife decides she likes the X and has me drive her 330 to work everyday. 

I love the 04 X drive and I love the truck on a daily commute- for as long as it lasts.


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## rph74 (Dec 27, 2003)

Belushi said:


> As some of you know I drive a '03 530i. I love it and take care of it religiously. The problem I am having is that my wife and I need to get a second car and I am having a hard time to decide as to what to get. I posted this thread in the X5 section http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=775836#post775836
> 
> so read that and let me know what you think. Also those of you in here that have families and understand my desire to have a tank for my wife and my kids to come, what is your opinion on the 5 series station wagon? I know Jon Shafer had got one around the same time I got mine so Jon if you read this please let me know what you think. I don't want to have lease payments for ever and that is why I want a car/suv that will last 8-10 years.
> 
> ...


We love our Land Cruiser. We have a 99 and it is still rock solid at 110k. I'm sure it is not as agile as the X5, but it is also a much bigger car. We like that the 3rd row seat folds to the side so we can bring our dogs and the necessary baby items for our 9 month old with us on long trips, and still use the 3rd row seats when we get where we are going. 
The LC V-8 is smooth as silk and is derived from the Lexus LS400 V-8 motor, which has been known to be very robust. The fit and finish is impeccable on these cars, and we have no rattles whatsoever even with the high mileage. The only drawback is poor gas mileage 13/15, so it's pretty much the same whether driving in town or on long road trips.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

530i Wagon? I thought only 525 and 540 were available (at least recently)... My wife and I have a 525iT and think it's great... Plenty of room, handles well, accelerates well (even with the 2.5) and is overall a joy to drive... Safety? Has the usual airbags and safety features, we don't hesitate to cart our 1.5 kids around in it (probably safer in it than in our '96 Land Rover Discovery...) One thing you haven't mentioned... Stealth... 5 wagons are invisible to radar!  The cops just look at the wagon silhouette and immediately look for other prey (I think it's a Jedi mind trick or something... "This is not the speeding vehicle you are after"...) I vote for the 5 wagon... Be (one of the few) on your block! :thumbup:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57826


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## Speedfreak (Apr 19, 2004)

*What?*

No LandRover


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Speedfreak said:


> No LandRover


Although we like our Land Rover, our 5 wagon has more room in it, and the performance and handling of the LR leave somewhat to be desired... It does do what it is designed to do the best though, and that is go off-road... But most people never even see gravel much less off-road... (At least ours sees gravel everytime we drive it...  )


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## marinakorp (Oct 3, 2003)

the touring has more cargo room than the X5 with the rear seats up


don't think you can get the 3.0 in the touring ... state side.

the touring is as safe a tank as you can get!


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## mottati (Apr 15, 2003)

I think it depends on how much stuff, or kids you have to haul around. We were a happy 2 e39 family for a couple of years, my 528i and my wife's 525iTa. The e39 isn't a huge car though, and it was a bit tight in the back with two growing brothers, in easy fighthing space. We traded my wifes iT for an 03 landcruiser when child #3 was on the way. Try as we might, 3 car seats in the back of an e39 is not a pleasant place. The landcruiser has been really nice, the extra space and the dvd video system really make for peaceful kids on a road trip. A bonus, the LandCruiser has not been back to the dealership one single time, other an for an oil change, in a year and a half of ownership. Not as fun to drive as a bmw, but what else is? Before we bought our 525iT, we looked at x5's as well, and i think the wagon actually has more room than the X5, the back seat of the X5 is slightly wider, but the seatbelt attatchments are in the same place, so no real difference if you have car seats in back.
Mike


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

I know you haven't mentioned it and it may seem too small for you, but the X3 has more cargo capacity (2 cu ft according to carsdirect.com) than the X5. Same 3.0 engine and lighter, less $. Just food for thought.


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*How about a 528iT vs. MB E320 4matic?*

My wife loves her 528i, and it did rather well in the snow, even before I got her a set of Blizzaks. I have been looking at a 528it and a 525iT but also a MB E320 4matic Wagon. The MB has all wheel drive and a third seat, and is still rated at 26 mpg highway.

The MB appeals to me for practicality and the extra seat when I have to haul a bunch of kids around. I will be very happy with it the five days a year we have deep snow on LI.

The E39 wagon will have a higher "fun to drive" factor, and is a BMW.

I can't wait until the new E60 wagon comes out next spring, and we don't know for sure if the E60 wagon will be available as an xiT.

Anyone have thoughts on this matchup?


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

sph17 said:


> I can't wait until the new E60 wagon comes out next spring, and we don't know for sure if the E60 wagon will be available as an xiT.
> 
> Anyone have thoughts on this matchup?


I cant imagine BMW would divide it's sales of the X5 with an XiT, but if they did, I'd be right in line. An XDrive 545 touring would be AWESOME! :yumyum:


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## Belushi (Feb 4, 2003)

You guys are right the 530 iT is not coming statewide anytime soon, wishfull thinking perhaps, but I've read somewhere in this site that someone learned that the 2.5 L engine is going to be dropped. Rumors I suppose, but I am hesitant to decide. 

NEgatives for 5 series wagon include lack of power in 2.5L I drive a '03 530i and though I love how it handles, feels, drives, I do find myself wanting more juice. Now 545 iT would be nice, but reliability as always seems to be non-japanese cars' achilles heel. I like that it would drive like a sedan and better fuel mileage. 

Negatives for X5 is that it lacks room for a family of at least 4, with their things ( those of you who have kids, know what I mean by the arguing etc... that I see other families having to deal with. Other negatives cost of ownership for 10 years, rough ride in second row of 4.4 L w/ sport package. I have fallen in love again with the sound of that V8. 

The only negatives I can come up with for the Landcruiser is its gas mileage, and not as fun to drive as a BMW. As a plus, a lot ofpeople say it is bulletproof.

As you can see I am still ever so confused. I thank you guys for taking the time to contribute to the madness I am facing with this purchase.


*** Can someone please page Jon Shafer and have him pm me someone he would recommend over at Cutter Motors. Who do you guys like over there? let me know ****


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Belushi said:


> As some of you know I drive a '03 530i. I love it and take care of it religiously. The problem I am having is that my wife and I need to get a second car and I am having a hard time to decide as to what to get. I posted this thread in the X5 section http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=775836#post775836
> 
> so read that and let me know what you think. Also those of you in here that have families and understand my desire to have a tank for my wife and my kids to come, what is your opinion on the 5 series station wagon? I know Jon Shafer had got one around the same time I got mine so Jon if you read this please let me know what you think. I don't want to have lease payments for ever and that is why I want a car/suv that will last 8-10 years.
> 
> ...


Dr. C,

My wife absolutely loves her 5 Series wagon, much more so than any other
vehicle that she has ever owned (including X5, Audi A6 Avant, LR Discovery
Jeep Grand Cherokee, Plymouth Caravan). For years she used to say that
she didn't understand what all of the BMW hoopla was about, and now I can't
ever seem to peel her fingers off of that sport steering wheel. 
She much prefers the wagon to the X5 (or other SUVs).
Although we leased the E39 wagon, I am 100% that
we will own it for many years to come...

Btw, Doc, how's your lovely bride??


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Belushi said:


> *** Can someone please page Jon Shafer and have him pm me someone he would recommend over at Cutter Motors. Who do you guys like over there? let me know ****


LOL! I randomly read and responded to your initial query within minutes
of your most recent post; it wasn't there when I started typing...


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Belushi said:


> NEgatives for 5 series wagon include lack of power in 2.5L I drive a '03 530i and though I love how it handles, feels, drives, I do find myself wanting more juice.


Our 525iT is a stick, and although it's not as quick as 530 or 545 would be, it's no slouch either... Blows the doors off of our Land Rover... Try driving a stick 525iT (if you can find one :eeps: ) and see if that helps in the power impression department... :thumbup:

BTW, there is a real nice "CPO" (it only has 6K miles on it) in NJ... Road trip! It has been out there for quite some time... they might be ready to deal on it!

2003 525i sport wagon

VIN Number: GD50488
Body Style: Wagon
Mileage: 6,662
External Color: Slate Green Metallic
Interior Color: Black Leather
Transmission: Manual
Dealer's stock#: 53225
Price: $45,995 *

Installed Options:

Cold Weather Package

Premium Package

Sport Package

Sunblind For Rear Side Windows

Pdc-Park Distance Control

Xenon Headlights

Navigation System

Premium Sound System

Prestige BMW
985 Route 17 N
Ramsey, NJ 07446-1606
201-327-2525 Phone
201-327-4921 Fax
www.prestigebmw.com


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## eyeopener (Jan 24, 2004)

Belushi,
Since this is a BMW board, you are definitely going to get more votes for the BMW brand and probably rightly so. One other vehicle you should check out is the Audi Allroad. Depending on how much space you need (not as big as the Landcruiser which I definitely think is a practical, reliable and safe vehicle but boring to drive) it may or may not fit your needs. It comes in an automatic 4.2L which definitely has some nice power and it does well in the snow and offroad. If you like manual, it comes in a 2.7. Good luck and have fun shopping.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

marinakorp said:


> the touring has more cargo room than the X5 with the rear seats up
> 
> don't think you can get the 3.0 in the touring ... state side.
> 
> the touring is as safe a tank as you can get!


530i Tourings are not available anywhere. The 525i and 545i are there for the petrolheads, whilst the rest of the bodyshells are used for diesel variants, accounting for over 60% of production.


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*We only have gas engines available in BMWs...*

No diesel BMWs in the US for a number of years. Low demand and strict emissions requirements. It is hard for the automobile companies to meet the emissions requirements as out diesel fuel is high in sulphur. New federal requirements to lower the sulfphur amount in diesel fuel may allow cleaner diesel engines that may meet federal emmissions requirements. Five states (Califonia, New York, Main, Vermont, Massachutchets) have even stricter emmission requirements that even prevent the new MB E300 CDI from being sold in their states.


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## nickv (Mar 12, 2004)

*Look at the Acura MDX or Honda Pilot*

They're both about the same SUV's - built on a car chassis so it's not intended for off-roading but then neithers the X5. I had an X5 - awesome car - but that's just it, it's a high car - there's very little space to "really move" things...

The MDX/Pilots are very roomy, safe decent mileage - 3 rows seats etc. etc. It's our second car and comes in very handy for hauling stuff all over the place esp. with kids etc. 3rd row folds down flat etc. Options include NAV or DVD system in the rear...

I personally strongly prefer the LEXUS LX-470 (or whatever) to the Landcruiser but I think it's just personal issues I've had with a Landcruiser in the past (I know they're almost the same SUV again)...

Have fun,
Nick


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

Decide on how many kids you expect to have. If it's more than two, then you will need 3 rows of seats. That limits you to minivans, extended cab pickups, and rather large SUV's (not the X5). You can buy mid-sized SUV's (Exploder, 4Runner, Trailblazer, etc) with a 3rd row of seats, but they it's totally inconvenient getting to that 3rd row. Not to mention the fact that there is zero legroom back there. 

The Toyota would be my first and only pick if the criteria is that it must last 10 years. 

We just purchased a Nissan Pathfinder Armada (Ramada), as we just had our 3rd child. Many months of searching for the right vehicle, at the right price, led us to the Nissan. However, I wouldn't necessarily trust it to last for 10 years. 

I'd go with the Toyota Landcruiser or Sequoia.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

ff said:


> Decide on how many kids you expect to have. If it's more than two, then you will need 3 rows of seats.


Very true... more than 2 kids, fuggeddaboutit... We are only having two (1 already here, 1 on the way) so we got the 525iT and that should suffice...


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## uwhusky (Apr 13, 2004)

I'm in the same boat. My wife is driving a ML500 and we're waiting for the 2005 525iT. I've seen pictures on Edmunds.com and it looks fantastic. We have two kids but plan on having a 3rd.

I've heard rumors there may be a 3rd row (rear facing) on the new 5 tourings. I'm hoping so, if not, when the 3rd kid comes, I'll take the 525iT and my wife can get a LandCruiser or something like it.


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*Rumor Contol...*



uwhusky said:


> I've heard rumors there may be a 3rd row (rear facing) on the new 5 tourings. I'm hoping so.


If BMW brought out a 525XiT with a third seat, there would be no reason to go look at a MB E320 4matic Wagon, except if you wanted a CPO/StarMarked vehicle sooner rather than later.

BMW USA are you listening? 3/4 of the E320 wagons on LI are 4matics, it sure seams like there is a market for a 525XiT.


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## mottati (Apr 15, 2003)

in the past, bmw had been pretty firm that there would be no third row because that is a crumple zone. mercedes and volvo say that area is part of the "safety cage"... I personally wouldn't put my kids back there, safety cage or no, i could imagine a lot of damage if a high riding suv hits the rear of one of those wagons, above the bumper... 

Plus, even in our landcruiser, having the third row of seats occupied really messes up the vehicle dynamics...
I'd also be surprised if bmw made a 525iXt, they made an e34 525iTx (in europe) and it didn't sell very well, but that was before all wheel drive was so trendy... it would likely canibalize x5 sales. 

Mike


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

mottati said:


> in the past, bmw had been pretty firm that there would be no third row because that is a crumple zone. I personally wouldn't put my kids back there, safety cage or no, i could imagine a lot of damage ...
> 
> I'd also be surprised if bmw made a 525iXt, they made an e34 525iTx (in europe) and it didn't sell very well, but that was before all wheel drive was so trendy... it would likely canibalize x5 sales.
> Mike


All good points.... But what about the alternatives?

How often do most people use the third seat? Most people use the third seat when they are taking a bunch of their childrens friends somewhere and then you are going to drive extra careful. Would you rather be in a BMW 525ixT with a third seat or a Minivan with the third seat if you were in an accident?

BMW does have a 3 series ixT wagon in the US, but it competes with the Audi A4 and the MB C230/C320 4matic. These are relatively small wagons.

MB has the ML320/350 and still makes the E320/E500 4matic wagon.

I have been looking at vehicles. The 5 and the E wagons have much better/smother rides than the SUV varients, and they have much more room also! So for a (hopefully substatial) number of people a station wagon (better if it was iXT) is their best choice.

Steve


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## Belushi (Feb 4, 2003)

Thanks for chimming in Jon. Believe it or not for the deal I got with you for my 530i I tried to convince Patti (my wife) to go for a wagon. Hindsight is always 20/20. By the way she is doing great and says hi. She referred to you as "...the nice President guy of that BMW place in Santa Barbara...?!" :dunno: So you can understand why I am doing the research right? IM the previous request if you can Jon. How's the Sonicare Elite doing? A friend of mine is using this mechanical toothbrush to clean tuff to reach areas in his car and other things. And yes I have to see him in my office more often than other patients.

Salvator
Thank you for that post about the car in NJ. I'm going to look into it.

Aas for the Honda Pilot/MDX we currently have a 2003 Honda Pilot and we recently got a recall notice for the transmission and brakes. This was the fuel that started this whole research and other reasons but this was the main one. I think Honda has dropped the ball on their quality/relaibility record. But I have to admit the Pilot drove great till about 20,000 miles and has since been acting very weird. Car is going tomorrow for recalls and diagnostic tests to determine what is going on. 

As for how many kids, we want at least 2 but any more than that will depend where we are financially. So guys with the BMW 5 series wagons is there enough room really for 2 parents, 2 kids and their stuff? 

I have to agree with Mottati in that I would not feel safe having my kids in the back of a wagon. 

Guys thanks for your thoughts as you have made some points I had not thought of. 

- Peter


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Belushi said:


> So guys with the BMW 5 series wagons is there enough room really for 2 parents, 2 kids and their stuff?


There is NEVER enough room, EVER for kids and their stuff... :banghead: but I find that with planning and creative packing, our 525iT has sufficient room for just about anything... Took a 1 week family vacation to Ottawa last year, 2 adults, 1 child, and was still able to cover the cargo area with the cargo cover... And if need be, those Thule storage boxes fit nicely on the roof rack and look like a factory accessory (especially if you have a TiAg vehicle and get the TiAg box to match... No, I don't have one, yet...) No need, thus far!

Definitely check out that wagon in NJ... If we didn't already own one, I'd be all over that one! :thumbup:


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## marinakorp (Oct 3, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> 530i Tourings are not available anywhere. The 525i and 545i are there for the petrolheads, whilst the rest of the bodyshells are used for diesel variants, accounting for over 60% of production.


thought you could get the 530 d touring in europe?


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Belushi said:


> Thank you for that post about the car in NJ. I'm going to look into it.


Just FYI - They are now showing it as one of their "Pre-Owned Specials" vehicles... Heres a picture...


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