# Speed cameras redlight cameras and general driving in Europe



## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

SD 335is said:


> Just to clarify this point, you are allowed to pass a car to the left if you are in traffic and your lane is moving faster than the lane to the left. Once traffic clears people tend to move over to the right lanes. You can absolutely not pass someone on the right on a two lane section of the autobahn if he is in the left lane and won't pull over. This is also true on three lane sections of the autobahn but I encountered a very small number of people who would drive in the left lane in the three lane sections.
> 
> Everybody is much more courteous in Germany, much less so in France! Even in Germany I did have occasions in two lane sections where people would pull into the left lane to pass slower cars on the right and then stay there until they had passed a whole series of cars in the right lane even though the spacing of those cars would have allowed them to easily pull over, let me by, and then pull back into the left without causing them to slow down. I had people who refused to pull over for me until there was nobody in the right lane in sight.
> 
> I also had a couple of situations where the person apparently thought that my car couldn't possibly be faster than theirs and only pulled over when we hit 145-150 MPH and I was still behind them. The first one was a Lexus GS350 who pulled over at 145 MPH and an X5 who pulled over at 150 MPH (I hit an indicated 160 MPH on the speedo, pegged.)


Wow. those are amazing speeds. There is no way my wife will et me near those even in the 535 could do that.


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## SD ///M4 (Jan 24, 2011)

jsciv said:


> I only did so when there was spotty traffic in the right lane: when I was pushing it I felt far safer with nobody directly in front of me. But trust me, it didn't last long: you catch up to traffic SO fast over 140mph...


I know the situations you are referring to. The guy a ways in front of you is staying in the left lane, you're both passing cars on the right frequently, just not a long row of them. There is room for you to pull back into the right lane sometimes, but nobody's behind you so you stay in the left lane. That happens most often in a two lane section, less so in a three lane section.

When I was in that specific situation I kept my eye on my mirror so I didn't have any surprises and I was ready to pull to the right ASAP.

I just noticed that you did clarify your statement to include "as long as there are any cars in sight ahead of you" which is what I just described. Sorry!


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

Yeah, stay right, and keep a real close eye on the speeds of everyone around. Don't take a quick peek like here in the states, take a real good look. I was doing 105 in the right lane, and a MB SL zoomed passed me by over 50 mph faster in the left. Then, you do have trucks and other slower cars ahead, so take extra time to make sure you judge the speeds correctly.

You really need to pay very close attention on those roads.


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## BimwadM3 (Apr 11, 2011)

Once upon a time, long, long ago, Uncle Sam gave me the privilege to live in Germany for a while. I had a hopped-up 911 and learned that driving in Germany is like being a gunslinger in the Old West--*there is always somebody faster*. Be very careful to stay out of the way, I seem to remember.

Do they still use the priority road thing or is it _rechts vor links _(sp?)?

What about the question about tickets catching up with you? Is there an on-the-spot fine imposed or will it find its way through the US mail? If it comes in the mail, what happens if you don't respond but don't go to Germany again?

Safety vests and extra prescription glasses and all these camera issues--this is starting to sound scary.

335is delivery on 6/30


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## admranger (Dec 24, 2005)

Those folks that won't move out of the way have to remember that Americans weren't invited to Europe, we came of our accord (proud son of a WWII vet here...RIP). That being said, I am much happier driving in Europe with the very, very, very rare left lane bandit versus the veritable herds of them on US roads.

Besides, I only drive one way and that's "flat out". :angel:


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

nealh said:


> Wow. those are amazing speeds. There is no way my wife will et me near those even in the 535 could do that.


Your 535i will do those speeds. The key is to get up early while the wife is still sleeping to drive up and down the autobahn at your desired speeds in order to get it out of your system. But then there will be nobody to take the speedometer picture for you!


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

nealh said:


> Wow. those are amazing speeds. There is no way my wife will et me near those even in the 535 could do that.


130 MPH was not near the 4500 (break in) redline. I had plenty of urge left at that speed. No doubt I could hit the limiter.


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## AggieKnight (Dec 26, 2008)

Me530 said:


> Your 535i will do those speeds. The key is to get up early while the wife is still sleeping to drive up and down the autobahn at your desired speeds in order to get it out of your system. But then there will be nobody to take the speedometer picture for you!


Two points for you here - 
1. My wife fell asleep while I had my bimmer locked @ 130 MPH in Cruise Control.
2. I was subsequently passed by a mid-80's Ford Astrovan that went by like I wasn't moving. The noise the van made woke my wife (sounded like a train), which was a good thing or I doubt anyone would have believed me.

Just saying.


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## ViaCorsa (Oct 1, 2010)

Yup. I agree with all others that say don't linger in the left lane no matter what your speed. Not only is it only against the law, there is always something out there that is faster. 

Use your turn signals too. If you are in the left lane and you see someone behind you approaching, flip on the right blinker as you move over. It lets them know you are about to change lanes. Most US driver tend to forget the blinker even exists.

On that note, as of my last trip, I actually saw 2 Germans pass on the right. One was pretty sneaky about it as the right lane (in heavy traffic) was moving a bit quicker. He popped in to the right lane, passed about 10 cars and went back to the left. The other guy was much more obvious and blatantly passed up cars in the left lane at speed. It was actually a first for me. (Then again my last trip covered over 5,000 Autobahn kms..so it was probably just a matter of time until I saw such shenanigans).


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## jsciv (Oct 5, 2010)

nealh said:


> Wow. those are amazing speeds. There is no way my wife will et me near those even in the 535 could do that.


I waited for my passenger to be napping before I punched it. That worked very well for me, as what generally made him realize something was going on was braking when approaching traffic, and when that was happening it was over anyway!

Because I'm getting some indirect grief for the way I said it, I should point out that I never lingered in the left lane, I only ran in it when I was going for 150mph. You tend to be the "passer" in almost every instance and it felt safer to be solidly in one lane than shifting lanes seconds apart at that speed. I also did keep an eye on the rearview just in case. In any event, I didn't just hang out in the left lane waiting for something to come up behind me or anything.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

jsciv said:


> FWIW, in my (albeit limited) experience, if you're going over 130mph or so you're probably safe to stay in the left lane as long as there are any cars in sight ahead of you. I think I was only approached from the rear at speeds slower than that.


No, it's NOT OK, probably or otherwise.

:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:


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## jsciv (Oct 5, 2010)

JSpira said:


> No, it's NOT OK, probably or otherwise.


Again, badly put on my part. So much for levity.


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## jnmit12 (May 4, 2007)

AggieKnight said:


> Two points for you here -
> 1. My wife fell asleep while I had my bimmer locked @ 130 MPH in Cruise Control.
> 2. I was subsequently passed by a mid-80's Ford Astrovan that went by like I wasn't moving. The noise the van made woke my wife (sounded like a train), which was a good thing or I doubt anyone would have believed me.
> 
> Just saying.


We drove at a steady 140-150 (indicated) for almost an hour on our last trip - My wife was totally zonked from a long day and slept the entire time.

Previously, I was amazed how many minivans etc (especially MB A/B class cars) have passed us like we were standing still. My first autobahn experience was filled with these incidents - no matter how fast I was going, someone else was going much faster. As a result, I always stay in the right lane except to pass. German driving skill is a big factor - on a wide open stretch with slight banking curves, I couldn't keep up with a mini-van - I was driving as fast as I was comfortable, and he left me in the distance. Also, an early 90's 5-series once passed me at ~165-170mph - I didn't think they could go that fast!


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## Needsdecaf (Sep 8, 2006)

nealh said:


> Wow. those are amazing speeds. There is no way my wife will et me near those even in the 535 could do that.


On my honeymoon, on the way back to the airport in Munich, I was cruising along at 200kph. In a rented Golf TDi. In the rain. And getting passed like nothing.

My wife was practically falling asleep.

When you can do those speeds on the Autobahn, its very different then the US.

Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App


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## Fun MiLes (Jun 8, 2011)

I learned to drive in Europe and I agree with those who say, do not stay in the left lane! It is illegal and though a lot of people won't go all the way to the right lane on a 3 lane highway, that is what you are supposed to do.

On the other hand, there are many cameras out there, but somehow I am not sure if they got to the point where the tickets will follow you back to the US. A few years back, ticket would not even cross the border. I am not sure they now do. In fact I heard of letters getting across the boarder, but never that payment became necessary, so unless anyone has personal experience to the contrary, I'd say you do not have to worry about those. In Europe, I have never seen a cop pull someone over for speeding. Only alcohol tests being done on the side of the road or the such....

No passing on the left has been said enough times and I concur. The fact that people are supposed to drive as far right as possible unless passing is the corollary of such law or maybe the converse, but do drive on the right and only shift left if you are passing. Once you have a 2 or 3 second advance on the car you passed, move back to the right. I think everyone should do that and in the US as well.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

Fun MiLes said:


> In Europe, I have never seen a cop pull someone over for speeding. Only alcohol tests being done on the side of the road or the such....


In Germany, the police routinely set up mobile, LIDAR speed traps at trouble spots and pull people over for speeding. Then there are the unmarked cars of the Autobahn Polizei who are out every day.

I have seen the police shooting LIDAR across the street from the front door of their main station, with the big POLIZEI sign jutting out over the entrance. That seems perhaps just a little too lazy, but crafty. They have caught quite a number of people who ignore the 30 km/h limit and can't say they hadn't been warned.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

It is easy to hit 130 mph. I did that in Italy and Germany. I didn't in Austria because so many cameras. They are obvious in Austria. They mount them high with box like objects high across the lanes. I don't know about Italy. There were so many signs warning about photo and I saw none. France is great. I saw the signs and usually got like 1/4 to 1/2 mile to get to the machines. Switzerland is fast. I saw the sign and 5 seconds later I was there. 

BTW, I read some festers saying French is removing those warning signs.


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## jsciv (Oct 5, 2010)

mason said:


> France is great. I saw the signs and usually got like 1/4 to 1/2 to get to the machines. Switzerland is fast. I saw the sign and 5 seconds later I was there.
> 
> BTW, I read some festers saying French is removing those warning signs.


France has a 130kph national speed limit now (which is around 82mph, or "just like American freeway speeds" more or less), so it's not really the same anymore.


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## ViaCorsa (Oct 1, 2010)

Fun MiLes said:


> In Europe, I have never seen a cop pull someone over for speeding. Only alcohol tests being done on the side of the road or the such....


Police do still pull people over for speeding, but it is becoming rarer as they are relying more on cameras and photo vans and such. In fact in my very un-scientific opinion, today there are even more speed cameras in Germany than ever and their enforcement of speed limits on the Autobahn is becoming increasingly effective.

The places to watch your speed in no particular order is -
- Where 2 Autobahns meet. The speed drops down to 100 kp/h.
- Where an Autobahn ends. There is a notorious speed camera at the end of the Starnberger Autobahn south of Munich just as the Autobahn turns into a regular street
- Construction zones
- Weather / traffic changes - There are a number of illuminated signs that will change speed limits depending on conditions. If you look at them, a lot of them have cameras mounted inside.

There is one more (there are many - but this is also a big no-no) law to obey. Tailgating. Do not tailgate and keep your distance from the car in front of you.


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## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

johnf said:


> In Germany, the police routinely set up mobile, LIDAR speed traps at trouble spots and pull people over for speeding. Then there are the unmarked cars of the Autobahn Polizei who are out every day.
> 
> I have seen the police shooting LIDAR across the street from the front door of their main station, with the big POLIZEI sign jutting out over the entrance. That seems perhaps just a little too lazy, but crafty. They have caught quite a number of people who ignore the 30 km/h limit and can't say they hadn't been warned.


When I went to Germany in 2009 for the F1 race at the Nurburgring, I watched a program on German TV one night about traffic enforcement on the Autobahn. It was a male/female Polizei pair in an unmarked BMW 5 that had enough computer equipment in it to handle man's return to the moon. They mostly targeted aggressive drivers (you know, frequent lane changes, think they're racing, those guys) and speeding in construction zones, although they did pull over people just speeding, especially in the 100 kmh zones.

A place I noticed a lot of cameras is at the entrance to a tunnel -- the speed limit might drop from say 100 on the road to 80 in the tunnel, so beware of speeding into tunnels!


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

jsciv said:


> France has a 130kph national speed limit now (which is around 82mph, or "just like American freeway speeds" more or less), so it's not really the same anymore.


I meant the sign for speed cameras and I forgot to put in the word miles. Anyway, I thoought 130km is ths limit for long time?? I was able to do 100 ~ 110 mph from Provence to Gap last year.

Ok, road was not crowded. Well the scenics was great!


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## jsciv (Oct 5, 2010)

mason said:


> I meant the sign for speed cameras and I forgot to put in the word miles. Anyway, I thoought 130km is ths limit for long time?? I was able to do 100 ~ 110 mph from Provence to Gap last year.
> 
> Ok, road was not crowded. Well the scenics was great!


I guess this is my thread for slight misunderstandings.  I thought this might have been in reference to coming out of unlimited zones into areas with speed cameras, but I suppose that exactly like in the US police do set up speed traps in France too!


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## podge8 (Mar 18, 2002)

From what I've been reading here, you shouldn't even think about speeding in Switzerland, even a couple of kph over the limit! Are they just as vigilant about the speed limit on the alpine passes and smaller roads and highways in addition to the major motorways? We plan on doing most of our driving in Switzerland through passes, etc. and avoiding most major highways. Should we keep our speed in check the whole time we are in Switzerland?


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## bigjae1976 (Feb 13, 2004)

$700 tells me that the Swiss have a 15% tolerance in the "no limit" zones which are actually 120 KPH. You see a white sign with a black sign which closely resembles the German sign.



On the passes, I don't see where they could really sit to clock you. Eitherway, I thought the best part of the pass was in Italy.


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

bigjae1976 said:


> $700 tells me that the Swiss have a 15% tolerance in the "no limit" zones which are actually 120 KPH. You see a white sign with a black sign which closely resembles the German sign.
> 
> 
> 
> On the passes, I don't see where they could really sit to clock you. Eitherway, I thought the best part of the pass was in Italy.


So you received a $700 ticket?Ouch. 120kph is 72mph. Were doing doing about 82 mph?


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## SD ///M4 (Jan 24, 2011)

nealh said:


> 120kph is 72mph.


72.4 mph


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## Gran Turismo (Aug 7, 2006)

bigjae1976 said:


> $700 tells me that the Swiss have a 15% tolerance in the "no limit" zones which are actually 120 KPH. You see a white sign with a black sign which closely resembles the German sign.


That particular sign is the very same one as in Germany and any other European country: Its meaning though is DEFINITELY NOT "no limit"! 
It is actually "previous speed limit cancelled, *default speed limit now applies again*". 
That default speed limit on motorways is 120kph in Switzerland, i.e. 130kph in France, and just happens to be unlimited in Germany!


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## bigjae1976 (Feb 13, 2004)

nealh said:


> So you received a $700 ticket?Ouch. 120kph is 72mph. Were doing doing about 82 mph?


174 kph...almost 110 mph? So it wasn't even close. I thought my license plate flew off or something when the police pulled me over.

I think everyone was like..."who is that schmuck speeding in the blue BMW???" Except they probably said it German.



Gran Turismo said:


> That particular sign is the very same one as in Germany and any other European country: Its meaning though is DEFINITELY NOT "no limit"!
> It is actually "previous speed limit cancelled, *default speed limit now applies again*".
> That default speed limit on motorways is 120kph in Switzerland, i.e. 130kph in France, and just happens to be unlimited in Germany!


thanks...where were you 3 days ago?

After 2 days at the 'ring...its a distant memory.


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

bigjae1976 said:


> 174 kph...almost 110 mph? So it wasn't even close. I thought my license plate flew off or something when the police pulled me over.
> 
> I think everyone was like..."who is that schmuck speeding in the blue BMW???" Except they probably said it German.
> 
> ...


Soory. I love the Monte Carlo blue color absolutely awesome:thumbup:


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## csg1600 (Aug 25, 2008)

Yup. Signs coming down. New mobile radar units being deployed. Radar-camera combos that read your plate and re-check over a 2-3km stretch, then send you a ticket. More Subaru-equipped Gendarmes. And possibly a ban on the GPS-camera warning devices that are super-effective here (Coyote) because they are well-networked with 400-500,000 active users. Also take note that if you drive with non-French plates in FR, the speed fine must be paid on the spot in cash.



mason said:


> It is easy to hit 130 mph. I did that in Italy and Germany. I didn't in Austria because so many cameras. They are obvious in Austria. They mount them high with box like objects high across the lanes. I don't know about Italy. There were so many signs warning about photo and I saw none. France is great. I saw the signs and usually got like 1/4 to 1/2 mile to get to the machines. Switzerland is fast. I saw the sign and 5 seconds later I was there.
> 
> BTW, I read some festers saying French is removing those warning signs.


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## smellthebeans (Mar 12, 2008)

nealh said:


> I am not familar with driving in Europe at all. I looked at some sites on road signs etc.
> 
> I will be in Munich and traveling to Lucerne, Switz. and Lake Garda, Italy and back to Munich.
> 
> ...


The 9500i does work (GPS chip is world wide). It is however, illegal to operate in a moving vehicle.

Prior to each days departure check this website out.
www.blitzer.de here you will find the latest on mobile and stationary blitzers.
Brush up on your Deutsche, the radio stations announce mobile blitzers (and traffic reports) about once per hour...it goes something like this....blah blah blah BLITZER, Name of town, Name of Road/Location, blah blah blah. Sometimes they put callers on the air to report them.

You can download a database to your GPS that will point out stationary blitzers through out all of Europe.


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## mgthompson (Oct 14, 2007)

smellthebeans said:


> Prior to each days departure check this website out.
> www.blitzer.de here you will find the latest on mobile and stationary blitzers.
> Brush up on your Deutsche, the radio stations announce mobile blitzers (and traffic reports) about once per hour...it goes something like this....blah blah blah BLITZER, Name of town, Name of Road/Location, blah blah blah. Sometimes they put callers on the air to report them.


Very nice. There is one listed close to the hotel that I always stay in for business.


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## bigjae1976 (Feb 13, 2004)

I hate it when this thread gets bumped...my $700 speeding ticket immediately comes to mind.


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

Sorry. I still love that color on your car


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