# Drove the Mazda6 and Scubie Legacy GT head to head



## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

While visiting the folks for Christmas, my dad and I along with my 11-year old daughter we out to frustrate a few salesmen :angel:

After my Dad got his eyes full of the new Chevy Equinox and Cobalt  we headed for the Scubie dealer and finished off at a Mazda place.

I know this has been discussed before, but here is my take on the two cars after a head to head comparo...

*Legacy GT Wagon*
_Pros_
- Sport Shift auto shifted pretty quicly...quicker than the last BMW Step I drove... :eeps: 
- Tourqe that come on early and low
- Very little tubo lag
- Plenty of space
- Comfortable seats
- Good road feel
- Flat cornering
- GREAT excelleration
- Fun overall driving experience

_Cons_
- Didn't get to drive a manual...non on the lot 
- Guages were hard to read in some lighting conditions...are plain white numbers on a black background that difficult of a concept to grasp...do they really need to glow?
- Steering boosted a bit more than I would prefer
- Could use a bit more rear leg room
- Interior switches easy to opperate but felt/looked a little "economy"...not bottom drawer cheap, but not E46 either

I was able to drive the Legacy up I-70 out of Dever towards Morrison and then down back roads back to the dealership. I shifted the auto myself the entire time and was frustrated by the lag in getting a gear, but felt the gear change was much quicker than the last time I drove an E46 with a step about a year ago. On that steep climb up I-70 in light traffic I kept the RPMs between 3500 and 4500...right in the torque band and easily accelerated and blew past people in fourth gear (5-speed auto). I quick drop to 3rd and I climbled that grade like the space shuttlel! On the smoth gental sweeping back roads, I found the handling to be flat and smooth. Granted the ride was not as tight as my SP E46, but I still found it enjoyable...actually pretty fun. I finished the test drive with a big smile on my face. I REALLY want to drive one in a stick!

*Mazda6 Hatchback* (They sold out of manual wagons, but had a manual hatch)
_Pros_
- Light, easy to operate, very direct clutch...much better than my E46
- Good shift feel
- Nice layout of interior, interior felt better quality and looked better than the Scubie(though I thought the beige was ugly)
- Good rear passenger room
- Comfortable seats
- Very quiet interior
- Good handling/cornering
- Good exhaust note

_Cons_
- Shift lever was too far back...felt awkward to shift and my elbow hit the armrest at the bottom of the pattern
- No torque at "average" RPM levels
- Steering boosted a bit more than I would prefer
- Despite the good handling, there was very little feedback to the driver
- Not fond of the high reving engine, never really felt the torque or HP

I drove the Mazda6 immediatly after the Subaru on a different strech of express way in heavier traffic and some metro roads. I am a fan of torque and this car didn't have it in a range I could easily tip into. In fact, even though I was trying to work around slower cars, I never did hit the engine's sweet spot. My butt meter told me I was going anywhere very quickly, and the salesman wasn't fond of the idea of playing with red line in his car. The car handled well, probably better than the Subaru, but the lack of feedback to the driver put a damper on the experience. I wasn't smiling when the drive was over. I was impressed however, that the dealership had sold out of wagons with a stick and all that was left was 1 auto...their '05s hadn't arrived yet  Half of their hatch/sedan inventory was stick.

*Bottom Line*
Overall, my 11-year old and I give a big :thumbup: to the Legacy GT wagon. I really enjoyed the drive. For the price, I don't think it can be beat. After experiencing leater and 'ette, cloth seats are about all I will get in my future cars and I don't need a sunroof to have fun in a car. I don't use it all that mutch anyway. That puts me in the GT and not the GT limited, which makes the price even better. I have never been that impressed/fond of turbo engines, but the Scubie was a fun drive. The Mazda was a big dissapointment from an engine standpoint. I could probably learn to work it to top performance, but I don't want to flog my daily driver in traffic to make it fun. The shifter position would also be an annoyence I would quickly tire from. I liked the Mazda6's interior better, but not enough to push it over the top on my "next car scale".

At this point in my life, a BMW just isn't practical anymore. I need more "mundane" transportation for me and my crew at a more econimical price point. I will forever be a BMW fan, but until my kids are on their own, this E46 will most likely be my last. If I had to replace my car today, I would be in a Subaru dealership...

"1 Legecy GT wagon in Regal Blue Pearl to go please!"


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Interesting reviews. The Legacy 2.5i wagon and the Mazda 6s wagon are the only two real choices we have to replace my wife's Passat wagon. If it weren't for the fact that she inexplicably turns her nose up at Subarus, it would be a tough decision for me. The smaller back seat and marginally smaller cargo area are the biggest drawbacks for the Legacy for us, but the AWD would definitely be a plus in my mind.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

PhilH said:


> Interesting reviews. The Legacy 2.5i wagon and the Mazda 6s wagon are the only two real choices we have to replace my wife's Passat wagon. If it weren't for the fact that she inexplicably turns her nose up at Subarus, it would be a tough decision for me. The smaller back seat and marginally smaller cargo area are the biggest drawbacks for the Legacy for us, but the AWD would definitely be a plus in my mind.


I like the AWD of the Subaru as well. In fact, if I had felt the cars dead equals, that would have pushed my favor to the the Subaru. Work makes me move all over and I never know when I will be living in a place with nasty weather, and I can't just sit at home by the fire, I must go in. Having an AWD car would allow me to get in and still leave the wife the 4x4 if she needed to get out.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Nate, in this thread back in September, the 3.0 liter was only available with auto, now I just checked the Subaru Germany site. The Spec B is here with 6-speed manual


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Nate, in this thread back in September, the 3.0 liter was only available with auto, now I just checked the Subaru Germany site. The Spec B is here with 6-speed manual


 

Here the 3.0 is only available in the Outback (my engine of choice actually) and the only trannies are a 5sp auto or 5sp manual.

I wonder why they won't bring the same trannies here. I would think it would be more expensive and complicated to maintain two seperate units rather than one.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Great write up, I really like both the Subaru and the Mazda 6 ... the first time I sat in the new Legacy I was surprised by how nice the interior was and I think they did an excellent job on the exterior ... it is one of my favorite 4 door designs. 

The Subaru is more car but it is also more money ... the Mazda 6 is a great car both in and out and for the deals they are offering on them, it is a great deal and probably about $4k less. 

If I had to pick one I think I'd go for the subaru bacause of the AWD and also I really like the rush a turbo gives. 

Lookswise if comparing the wagon models, I think the Subaru wagon is the better looking of the two, the Mazda 6 while it is a nice design in a wagon doesn't look as round and swoopy (is that a word ?!) as the subaru.

If you are considering 4 doors, have you thought of the Saab 9-3, they have big rebates (about $3k) and they really are great cars to drive plus the interior has a nice quality to it.
BTW how was the Colbalt ... I think GM finally got a car that can be compared to the Japanese. It got a great write up except for the steering feel.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Nate, in this thread back in September, the 3.0 liter was only available with auto, now I just checked the Subaru Germany site. The Spec B is here with 6-speed manual


side note;

I was watching Best Motoring dvd last night and they mentioned the new H6 3.0l has variocam plus(sp?) licensed from porsche. First time I have heard that mentioned, thought it was kind of interesting, not sure a fact though


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

AF-RX8 said:


> If you are considering 4 doors, have you thought of the Saab 9-3, they have big rebates (about $3k) and they really are great cars to drive plus the interior has a nice quality to it.


I am not really in the market right now. I was doing more than looking/driving some cars that will interest me the next time around. Realistically, I am quite a ways off from buying anything.

I spent a good deal of time with the SAABs at last years auto show. I really liked the interiors and the new 9-3 shape. I would give them and Acura a look before a final decesion, but the Subaru still has the most interest at this point.

I won't be tracking the car, so FWD doesn't bother me as much as long as the torque steer isn't too bad and it doesn't plow through the corners.



> BTW how was the Colbalt ... I think GM finally got a car that can be compared to the Japanese. It got a great write up except for the steering feel.


We didn't get to drive one. There wasn't a dealer in sight at the Chevy place. I guess it was too cold and they had enough sales to hit their end of year goals. The Subaru/Mazda place sent a salesman our way after 15min or so of looking.

From a purely cosmetic standpoint, both the Equinox and Cobalt are a big step forward in fit/finish from previous Chevy models. All the seams were even, interior bits were hung even, and the interior was stylish and resonably attractive in an economical Chevrolet sort of way. A drive of either would have been interesting.

The big dissapointment at the Chevy dealer was the SSR. Up close it wasn't the grand event I thought it would be...pretty mundane overall. I don't quite know what I was expecting, but what I saw wasn't it. I couldn't believe the prices they were charging for some options on that vehicle.


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

Too bad Acura doesn't offer the TSX wagon (Accord wagon in Japan and Europe) otherwiese it would be a nice competitor.

Speaking of Equinox, I read that the engine is 'made in China'. Is it true?


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Good write up Nate.

I got Subie VIP pricing on a base GT wagon too... <$27K out the door (tax, title, license...). For the performance, etc... can't be beat, IMHO. I got the 5MT... much better with the power curve of the motor. Even when not trying to go fast, I tend to shift at 3-4k, and each shift seems to drop you in above 2500, which is where the power starts. So I thought in actual practice,

Here's a Regal Blue pic when I took when I was thinking about color. Very nice, but I went with Satin White pearl...


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

racerdave said:


> Very nice, but I went with Satin White pearl...


That's one nice looking wagon! :thumbup:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Thanks... yeah, it does look good for a wagon. Another shot:


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Thanks... yeah, it does look good for a wagon. Another shot:


nice :thumbup:

so dave, what are the first mods? :angel: spec B suspension and new tires?


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Thanks!

New tires are #1... 20mm rear ARB (stock is 16) will probably be second. We'll see from there.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Dave, congrats ! Very nice. Drive it in good health :thumbup:


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

Couldn't wait for the mythical STi Legacy, huh?  Looks great, Dave. 

Weren't a lot of dudes paying for dealer upgrade on tires at time of delivery? That way, they didn't have to pay full price for new tires, pay for mount and balance, and then figure out what to do with some crappy OE shoes.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Good write up Nate.
> 
> I got Subie VIP pricing on a base GT wagon too... <$27K out the door (tax, title, license...). For the performance, etc... can't be beat, IMHO. I got the 5MT... much better with the power curve of the motor. Even when not trying to go fast, I tend to shift at 3-4k, and each shift seems to drop you in above 2500, which is where the power starts. So I thought in actual practice,
> 
> Here's a Regal Blue pic when I took when I was thinking about color. Very nice, but I went with Satin White pearl...


Beautiful car!

When you bought yours, did you consider the OEM SSK? Going thought the Subaru web site I noticed you can option the car with a Momo shift nob and an STI SSK. Since I didn't get to drive a stick, I don't know if the SSK is really needed, but shorter shifts are never really a bad thing  Can you add the optional gauge cluster from the STI to the Legacy? Maybe mount it in the little compartment on the dash? Sure would be nice to have a boost gauge...

At the dealer I visited, they had a Regal Blue model on the show room floor that had been a demo model driven by the Sales Manager. They offered invoice straight up, but the manager made the comment that he would still consider dealing on that price :eeps: Down side was it had an auto...it was still very tempting :eeps:


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## beowulf777 (Oct 7, 2004)

I had a 2000 Outback that I loved, but some events caused me to transfer it to my wife's daily driver and she could not accept the lack of acceleration (no Turbo available back then). We then went to a Honda Pilot and now to the X. She says she will never own anything but a BMW again. Now that the Turbo is out I may look at the wagon again for me.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

RSPDiver said:


> Couldn't wait for the mythical STi Legacy, huh?  Looks great, Dave.
> 
> Weren't a lot of dudes paying for dealer upgrade on tires at time of delivery? That way, they didn't have to pay full price for new tires, pay for mount and balance, and then figure out what to do with some crappy OE shoes.


Thanks for all the well-wishes everyone. And no... didn't want to wait for the mythical STi.  As is, it's kind of a Japanese version of the previous (v-6 bi-turbo) version of the Audi S4... good enough for me. 

Yeah, I'm calling my dealer today in fact to do the same thing regarding tires. Also may have a "in" at a big area tire retailer to do the same. That's a better way to go as far as replacing them... good suggestion.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Desertnate said:


> Beautiful car!
> 
> When you bought yours, did you consider the OEM SSK? Going thought the Subaru web site I noticed you can option the car with a Momo shift nob and an STI SSK. Since I didn't get to drive a stick, I don't know if the SSK is really needed, but shorter shifts are never really a bad thing  Can you add the optional gauge cluster from the STI to the Legacy? Maybe mount it in the little compartment on the dash? Sure would be nice to have a boost gauge...
> 
> At the dealer I visited, they had a Regal Blue model on the show room floor that had been a demo model driven by the Sales Manager. They offered invoice straight up, but the manager made the comment that he would still consider dealing on that price :eeps: Down side was it had an auto...it was still very tempting :eeps:


Thought about the OEM SSK. I drove one with it... it certainly wasn't bad, but it was a little stiff. From what I understand, it just takes a bit of time to loosen up a tad. I just didn't think I needed it that much. As for gauges, check out http://www.legacygt.com That's probably the most active board for the newer GTs... not sure if someone tried to adapt the gauges or not yet.

Yeah, I've heard they're willing to deal too. Good for us. If you go to Subaru's site and "build it," you can look for it nearby. There might be one not too far away that they can get from another dealer. With white, it wasn't possible as there were 0 white ones with manual trans.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Yeah, I've heard they're willing to deal too. Good for us. If you go to Subaru's site and "build it," you can look for it nearby. There might be one not too far away that they can get from another dealer. With white, it wasn't possible as there were 0 white ones with manual trans.


I'm not in a position to buy another car right now, but did the search after going through the "build it". There wasn't a manual wagon within 100 miles of me


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Then no problem... if you can wait for a while, then no worries.


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