# Checked out the '04 530i (E60) in person. The age of 'decontenting' continues....



## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

First of all the new E60 is a beautiful car; however, there are features that are scaled back or eliminated in the new 5. First and foremost, where did the temperature gauge go? There isn't one. The E60 has only the tach, speedo, fuel and mpg gauges. The wood trim prevalent in the E39 such as the console, wood insert on the steptronic gearshift, and all 4 doors are ABSENT in the E60 and are replaced by titanium (plastic) trim. The wood trim on the E60 is only found on the dashboard with lesser quality plastic compared to the E39. The 'homelink' is now incorporated in the rearview mirror instead near the sunroof control as on the E39. Rear map lights are now in the center headliner adjacent to where the motion sensor instead of near the outboard occupants on the C pillar (as in the E39). The memory seat buttons, which were illuminated and located on the drivers door on the E39 are now near the power seat adjustments. Hey, try locating them in the dark, especially while driving. Also the steering wheel adjustment now has an obscurely located heated steering wheel button which are now both on the left side of the steering column near the turn signal. 

The front and rear seat occupant space is much more roomy in the E60 with a higher beltline. The rear cupholders are now incorporated into the rear armrest. The hood does NOT incorporate the grill--it is a pancake variety, yet lighter compared to the E39. 

I guess all car companies do what they can to save money by keeping the MSRP stable when a newly designed model comes out. Hope this helps.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Completey agree. The e60 and e65 have many visible cost-saving measures. I find the "titanium" trim on the e65 doors particularly egregious-- its thin, cheap-feeling charcoal colored plastic. Frankly, the base grey-colored plastic trim on a european 316 or 318 looks and feels better than this stuff (and would probably be more convicning as "titanium"). Your list is a nice comprehensive list of them.
Another (obvious) one is the use of the flat (rather than driver oriented dash). It lets them use the same molding for left and right-hand drive variants. As if the bad design weren't enough, you have to deal w/ a cheap looking and feeling interior. I actually rememeber reading in an magazine article that one of BMW's goals with the e60 was to reduce production costs significantly. Great for them, but not so good for consumers. I think they may have cut too much of the "substance" that used to make BMWs feel special. Enjoy your e39! I think it may be the last BMW that actually feels "high quality"


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

*Thanks robg*

Thanks for your response. Decontenting will now be a household word, like anti lock brakes, and dual airbags. Why BMW removed the temperature gauge on the E60 is completely beyond me. I guess if you have a cost reduction priority in executing a new model, the consumer will inevitably be affected. The headlight and fog lamp control are incorporated into one knob which is a push pull variety. I guess it is not too late to get an E39.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

FosterE39 said:


> Thanks for your response. Decontenting will now be a household word, like anti lock brakes, and dual airbags. Why BMW removed the temperature gauge on the E60 is completely beyond me. I guess if you have a cost reduction priority in executing a new model, the consumer will inevitably be affected. The headlight and fog lamp control are incorporated into one knob which is a push pull variety. I guess it is not too late to get an E39.


I can sort of see the justification for losing the temp gauge-- in its latest iterations (since probably the e36)-- its been "buffered" anyway-- so it might as well be an idiot light. I just wish the interiors on these new cars wasn't so cheap looking and feel (among other things). One other annoyance I just thought of--they've moved the cruise control to a column mounted stalk rather than the steering wheel mounted buttons in the e46/39/38. I haven't actually sat in an e60 yet-- but after the e65 and your post i'm betting its going to suck just as badly. All of the interior stuff on an e65 just doesn't feel good--it has a really plasticky low-end consumer electronics kind of feel to it. Even the "piece de resistance", the i-drive controller just feels like cheap plastic. After making such a big deal about it-- they shoud've made it real aluminum with some leather around the rim and made the action nicely damped- like the volume control on a high-end stereo.


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

You're absolutely right! The cruise control is now on a stalk below the turn signal stalk--and it looks cumbersome and intimidating--plus it is probably not illuminated either. The dashboard layout of the E60 is just like the E65--just picture it as the E65 but it is about 80% of the size. The buttons on the steering wheel are similiar to the 3 series--so now on the E60 the heated steering wheel and steering wheel adjustments are on the left side of the steering column. The I-Drive looks like a video arcade controller from the 1980's on the plastic console. Will it take an adjustment to go from the E39 to the E60 as far as a tactile feel is concerned--the answer is yes. Will the E60 sales surpass the E39's sales for its generation (the best seller with that product incarnation)--only time will tell.


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## backstay (Aug 28, 2003)

*Wow, didn't realize E39 run over.*

Having not really followed new cars that close I was surprised to learn that my '03 525ia is one of the last of this model. Glad I didn't wait, and I got a pretty good deal as well. Just ordered the Dinan Signature series and Zeckhaused brake pads; can't wait!!

Foster39...where in Jersey are you? I'm in SE CT; maybe we're cousins??..LOL

Bill Foster


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

I am near Paramus, NJ. Foster is the name of my dog, so there is no relation. Take care. 

"At what point does a reputation become a legacy?"


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## JEM (May 3, 2003)

I'd much rather have the seat-memory buttons on the seat (where they are on our Saab, for instance) rather than on the door panel, where they're difficult to reach when you first sit down with the door open. Lighting is a non-issue - if you need to look to locate the memory-seat buttons while driving you've got other problems. 

Some of the other control locations may be related to wanting to free the space for other uses (e.g. moving the cruise-control off the wheel) or keeping the visible dash free of button-clutter, which seems to be a Bangle-era obsession (e.g. the steering-wheel-heat button.) Personally, I want controls on the dash, where I can see them, that's what the dash is there for. I don't need a piece of useless, decorative furniture in my car. 

The trim may be a decontenting question (most Euro-market 5s have always had plastic, as did the E39 525) or an aesthetic one. 

The E60 may be roomier, but I don't want a higher beltline.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

robg said:


> One other annoyance I just thought of--they've moved the cruise control to a column mounted stalk rather than the steering wheel mounted buttons in the e46/39/38.


Is this like the controller on the E30? I love that one. Much easier to use than the buttons, because it's more intuitive. Forward is go faster, back is slow down. Up is resume and down is off. None of this switching between accel/set or decel/stop on buttons.


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

I agree. The memory seat buttons should be on the seat like on the new Saab 9-3. But on the E60, the memory seat buttons are next to the power seat buttons on the side of the seat (aka Infiniti G35 sedan) which are far more cumbersome to reach and locate, particularly if you have large hands. It looks like BMW gave Chris Bangle the same amount of money to create the E39 and E60, in 1994 and 2001, respectively. Not including inflation of course! A dollar was worth more in 1994 versus 2001. 

There is much less wood on the E60, and it shows.


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

I also agree. I would like to have the dashboard controls where I can see them. Also try to use the headlight switch and foglamp switch on the E60.


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*And it is UGLY also!!*

Saw it for the first time yesterday. Nose is too heavy and the sides are like vertical slabs. In addition, it looks just like a bunch of other cars.

My son and I were watching the Redsox game last night (to see who would be playing the Yankees) and a car comercial came on. Both my son and I thought it was a new E60, until the end, when they came in close and announce it was an Accura. To mistake an Accura for a BMW is a sad state for BMW to have fallen to. No one mistakes an E39 for anything other than another BMW!!

<sph17>


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

My temp gauge saved my butt a few weeks ago!!! The stupid MID comes on all the time saying something or another... when it first came on saying low coolant the temp looked fine so I dismissed it as another MID false alarm. However, I monitored the temp gauge and was able to pull into a gas station just as the temp started to get past 12oclock. Gauges are very useful sometimes and they add a sportiness to a very subtle sports car. 
JB


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

That is why the temp gauge is so important.


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## Ingimar (Oct 14, 2003)

One thing I noticed about the E60 was that it felt like the middle armrest was lower than the armrest in the drivers door. Was I imagining this or is it like that? Perhaps I should go and take a second look.  

This is in my opinion bad for the overall ergonomy/useability.

Having these armrests the same height is really good, especially on long trips.


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

The armrest is slightly lower. I am going to check it out again soon.


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Tanning machine said:


> Is this like the controller on the E30? I love that one. Much easier to use than the buttons, because it's more intuitive. Forward is go faster, back is slow down. Up is resume and down is off. None of this switching between accel/set or decel/stop on buttons.


My E36 had the cruise setup this way and I really liked it too. Mainly because it was so different than the Japanese cars I was driving before that. I also liked the window controls in the center console.

Why they kept the mpg gauge and nixed the coolant temp is beyond me. The mpg gauge is useless - no $hit i'm getting 0mpg when I mash the pedal into the carpet. Anyone not know this already? When I test drove the E36 the salesman actually pointed out the mpg gauge and commented that I really was getting 40mpg when I lifted my foot off the accelerator. That's whackadoo!

Long live the E39!


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

jvr530i said:


> My E36 had the cruise setup this way and I really liked it too. Mainly because it was so different than the Japanese cars I was driving before that. I also liked the window controls in the center console.
> 
> Why they kept the mpg gauge and nixed the coolant temp is beyond me. The mpg gauge is useless - no $hit i'm getting 0mpg when I mash the pedal into the carpet. Anyone not know this already? When I test drove the E36 the salesman actually pointed out the mpg gauge and commented that I really was getting 40mpg when I lifted my foot off the accelerator. That's whackadoo!
> 
> Long live the E39!


Keeping the MPG gauge but nixing the temp gauge defies all reasoning, and reaches a new level of stupdiity. I just cannot imagine WTF they were thinking (but I say that about a lot of things on the e60/65).


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

I sat in the E60 today at my dealership, and yes the center armrest is definitely lower that the door armrests. Not to also mention that the 530i gets EPA of 18 mpg in the city.


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## FosterE39 (Aug 28, 2003)

The first aid kit absent in the E39 is now standard on the E60 located in the toolkit on the inside trunklid.


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