# Lease: demo vs. "used" exec. vehicle?



## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

We disclose a BMW NA factory car VS a Dealer Service loaner.. big difference in price!! Grab the demo... most of ours are over $10,000 off msrp, and are pretty loaded.


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

So people will start driving around and hunt for Georgia MFD plate cars and create some "disclosure" events.

GP... now you guys have a strange love for more than 10 5 GT's demo ....

I like this one... 6 speed 
http://www.pacificbmw.com/commercia...les-area-6c3b1db80a0a006471e5c7ed46b1b055.htm

Anyone want to take my AH5?


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

Okay, this topic is intriguing me, but I have a few questions for the CA's/sponsors who have been responding:

1. I understand what a service loaner vehicle is. But what exactly is a factory/demo/executive car?
2. How are these cars being sold/leased at exceptional prices? Are they considered "used" since there was a previous owner, even if it was the dealership?
3. What exactly are the damage disclosures? Thousands off due to damage, but the car has been repaired by BMW? I don't get it. If a $50K car has $10K in damage, but is repaired, isn't it a $50K car again?

Normally, I'm pretty picky when it comes to choosing a car; colors, options, etc. But if these things can be found pretty much loaded, that eliminates the options part of it. I'd be more willing to compromise on color, or even specific model if it was a smoking deal. Which leads me to my last questions:

4. I think all the respondents have been from the west coast. Are these deals good enough to ship a car cross-country (I'm in Massachusetts)? Would you even ship a car?
5. Depending on the previous answer, how would I approach dealerships in the NE to ask about these deals, and what do I ask for?

Thanks, and sorry for sounding a bit like a dullard.


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2012)

OBS3SSION said:


> Okay, this topic is intriguing me, but I have a few questions for the CA's/sponsors who have been responding:
> 
> 1. I understand what a service loaner vehicle is. But what exactly is a factory/demo/executive car?
> 2. How are these cars being sold/leased at exceptional prices? Are they considered "used" since there was a previous owner, even if it was the dealership?
> ...


The big disclourse cars GP and I are talking about you will not see on a retail lot. It's too much of a risk. Smaller disclourses like a grand or two is highly possible.


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> The big disclourse cars GP and I are talking about you will not see on a retail lot. It's too much of a risk. Smaller disclourses like a grand or two is highly possible.


So does that mean a Joe Blow like me can't get those deals, and only employees of the dealership can (if so, thanks for teasing us! )? Also, all of my other questions still remain.


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

I am curious to the answers to OBS3SSION's post as well, especially #3, #4, and #5.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

OBS3SSION said:


> Okay, this topic is intriguing me, but I have a few questions for the CA's/sponsors who have been responding:
> 
> 1. I understand what a service loaner vehicle is. But what exactly is a factory/demo/executive car?
> 2. How are these cars being sold/leased at exceptional prices? Are they considered "used" since there was a previous owner, even if it was the dealership?
> ...


#1- BMW NA factory cars. Could have been an employee lease for a BMW USA or BMWFS employee, could have been a press fleet car, a performance center car, who knows. Bottom line, it was "owned" and used by BMW as the first owner and is now technically a used car.

#2- BMW sells these to dealers. Sometimes directly (dealers can ask their area managers if they can buy their demo for example) but usually most of them are sold at auction. BMW has auctions that are often "closed" meaning only BMW dealers can bid on the cars. The demand, mileage, colors, options, and story behind each car determine what they sell for but it's typically near used car wholesale since they are titled. Some really nice cars or in demand models fetch a premium. Some cars with more stories sell really cheap. Here's the catch- BMW lets dealers use new car lease programs on them. That means you can get special rates and residuals. The residual is adjusted down for the starting mileage, but that's usually much less of a hit than the discount you get on the cap cost.

#3- Cars with previous body damage or modifications get disclosures. BMW repairs the cars before selling them, but let's say they did $5k worth of body work- now that car has a story and just like any other used car with repairs it will sell for a lower price. However, on a lease BMW won't lower the residual for that prior damage because the car has been repaired. You benefit from a lower purchase price which means better lease deal. Some of the cars BMW sells at these factory sales have big disclosures ($10k, $15k, $20k of repairs or another favorite of mind is "upfits" - meaning they modified a preproduction car to be able to sell it).

#4- BMW dealers everywhere buy these. I saw a bunch of F30 demos at a dealer in NJ last month when I was car shopping. Just look around online at USED car listings for current model year cars at BMW dealers. Some are their own demos or loaners, and some are factory cars. Usually the Carfax can give you clues on which it is.

#5- this is the tricky part because it's not transparent at all. You have to find a salesperson you trust. Unlike on a new car, you don't know what they paid or what's a good selling price. My advice is to try working up a lease on a brand new car like the one you are looking at and have that as a reference point before you start negotiating.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

SARAFIL said:


> #1- BMW NA factory cars. Could have been an employee lease for a BMW USA or BMWFS employee, could have been a press fleet car, a performance center car, who knows. Bottom line, it was "owned" and used by BMW as the first owner and is now technically a used car.
> 
> #2- BMW sells these to dealers. Sometimes directly (dealers can ask their area managers if they can buy their demo for example) but usually most of them are sold at auction. BMW has auctions that are often "closed" meaning only BMW dealers can bid on the cars. The demand, mileage, colors, options, and story behind each car determine what they sell for but it's typically near used car wholesale since they are titled. Some really nice cars or in demand models fetch a premium. Some cars with more stories sell really cheap. Here's the catch- BMW lets dealers use new car lease programs on them. That means you can get special rates and residuals. The residual is adjusted down for the starting mileage, but that's usually much less of a hit than the discount you get on the cap cost.
> 
> ...


Nice work on definitions.

How can a buyer be sure that the labels used are accurate? Like a dealer calls it a 'demo' but it isnt a BMW factory demo, rather it is a car the dealership principals' wife drove for 4 months? Or the dealer calls is an "executive car" or whatever.

How does a buyer VERIFY that these definitions -that we and our BMW dealership buddies here agree upon- are being accurately applied?


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> #1- BMW NA factory cars. Could have been an employee lease for a BMW USA or BMWFS employee, could have been a press fleet car, a performance center car, who knows. Bottom line, it was "owned" and used by BMW as the first owner and is now technically a used car.
> 
> #2- BMW sells these to dealers. Sometimes directly (dealers can ask their area managers if they can buy their demo for example) but usually most of them are sold at auction. BMW has auctions that are often "closed" meaning only BMW dealers can bid on the cars. The demand, mileage, colors, options, and story behind each car determine what they sell for but it's typically near used car wholesale since they are titled. Some really nice cars or in demand models fetch a premium. Some cars with more stories sell really cheap. Here's the catch- BMW lets dealers use new car lease programs on them. That means you can get special rates and residuals. The residual is adjusted down for the starting mileage, but that's usually much less of a hit than the discount you get on the cap cost.
> 
> ...


It does look like only insiders can fully take advantage of such super deals.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

The employees grab the sweetest deals... obviously.. but the regular consumers can still get nice deals....... yes smaller disclosures like Justin said... as far as your questions
1. DRIVEN BY BMW NA EXECUTIVES.. NEVER TITLED OR REGISTERED
2. THE CARS GET A USED "RS" RECEIPT OF SALE
3. YES REPAIRED BY BMW THE MSRP IS STILL THE SAME
4. YES THE DEALS ARE GOOD ENOUGH.. BUT THESE ARE "USED CARS"... they have 7-15k mile son them.... so you are not getting a new car, it will have normal wear and tear (minimal)
5. JUST SAY YOU WANT A FACTORY DEMO... TELL THEM TO GET YOU ONE FROM THE AUCTION.. JUST GIVE THEM A MODEL YOU WANT ... you can't be picky with color and options... you have to focus on what's the payment.


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## xofruitcake (Jul 24, 2010)

Greg, as an example, if I am interested in a 2014 535 on your demo list, would I be using the current 2014 money factor and residual of 2014 535 to calculate the lease payment? And how would the mileage work e.g. if a car already has 10,000 miles on the odometer and I want a 3 years 12K miles lease, would I be able to drive the car until it hit 46000 miles? I assume that we don't want long lease on these cars as they may push it pass the warranty period. So may be 2 years is the ideal length for demo cars, correct?


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

all of these do.... PRE OWNED SPECIALS AND FACTORY DEMO INVENTORY

http://www.pacificbmw.com/specials/used.htm

http://www.pacificbmw.com/commercial-used-inventory/index.htm?reset=InventoryListing

@XO fruitcake you are calculating right.

@SARAFIL, thanks for breaking it down 

we have to disclose if the car was a BMW NA Factory demo or a Service demo (dealer car).. you will know that in advance. All dealer demo will not have nearly as good a deal as a BMW NA demo. Bottom line, just compare a new car to the demo based on MSRP that will tell you how good deal can be!


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## randyjstark (Mar 17, 2008)

[email protected] BMW said:


> we have to disclose if the car was a BMW NA Factory demo or a Service demo (dealer car).. you will know that in advance. All dealer demo will not have nearly as good a deal as a BMW NA demo. Bottom line, just compare a new car to the demo based on MSRP that will tell you how good deal can be!


Greg, if I am looking at a 2014 "service loaner" with 10k miles from a dealer with a MSRP of 59,050 and a sale price of 40,500 do I use 2014 residuals and MF's to calculate a lease? Is there anything I am missing?

If so, I could end up with a lease payment under 300/mo if I do MSD's...


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes you use current rate and residual .... Adjust residual any miles over 500 at .20 cents

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[email protected]


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Well this thread is reaching people... Just had a fester get a killer deal today on a loaded 2014 demo 535!!! Less monthly payment than a new 528 or 335!! You get the picture....

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
[email protected]


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## xofruitcake (Jul 24, 2010)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Yes you use current rate and residual .... Adjust residual any miles over 500 at .20 cents
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
> [email protected]


how does the adjustment for the residual work? So if the car has 10000 miles already and I want a 2 year 12k miles lease, I would have to pay an extra 10000x0.2=2000 so that I can drive the 24000 miles and return the car with 34000 miles? or do I return the car with 24000 miles and I got $2000 additional discount for the car?


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

for example if car has 10,500 miles... deduct 500 then multiply .20 by 10k to get the residual adjustment. Your mileage is the same.. so on a 24m lease 12k you would be able to go 34,500 miles for example.


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## xofruitcake (Jul 24, 2010)

[email protected] BMW said:


> for example if car has 10,500 miles... deduct 500 then multiply .20 by 10k to get the residual adjustment. Your mileage is the same.. so on a 24m lease 12k you would be able to go 34,500 miles for example.


Heh heh, we are terrible. It passed midnight now and we are still here .

I think I get it now. So when I figure out the depreciation portion of the lease, I will add the residual adjustment to the difference between sales price and residual. E.g. If I am leasing a demo with $60k MSRP, $50k selling price and 65% residual for a 2 yrs 12k miles per year lease. The depreciation is 50k - 60k*65%=50k - 39k= 11k. Then I add the residual adjustment of 2k (using your example). So I have a total of 13k depreciation spread out to 24 months for 541.6 a month in depreciation. In this case, can i just sign a standard 15k mi per year lease with residual of 63% and return the car at 30k miles on the odometer when I turn in the car? And my depreciation would be 50k-60k*63%=12.2k spread out 24 months for a monthly depreciation of 508.33 with the understanding that I can only drive 19. 5k miles in the next 24 months since the car already has 10500 miles on the odometer.

If my understanding is correct, then the demo that look interesting are the one that has discount at least 4-5k above and beyond what the brand new car are selling for.. So if a new 5 is selling around 7k below MSRP with all the rebate factor in, the only demo that look interesting are the one with discount over 11k or more from MSRP. Am I correct with my assumption?

Sorry that I ask such detail question.. My 2013 535 2 yrs 12k miles lease with 73% residual will expire in Dec. And I think I will have a very hard time finding something similar with the 585+tax a month payment (with 7 MSDs and 65k MSRP). So demo can be a solution for me when I start seriously looking..


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## BHC (May 19, 2003)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Well this thread is reaching people... Just had a fester get a killer deal today on a loaded 2014 demo 535!!! Less monthly payment than a new 528 or 335!! You get the picture....
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
> [email protected]


That was me, thanks for the AWESOME deal Greg! Demos totally make sense if you are flexible with the color & options. Coming from a 3 series, I was looking to upgrade to a larger car for the family. I knew I wanted a 5 series and my main focus was on getting the best payments.

For this to work, you gotta be flexible. For example, I would have liked to have M-Sport but non of the demos had it. However, I was saving a ton of money on the payments with a demo VS a brand new one with M-Sport so it made perfect sense to give up that option. Oh, btw my demo only has around 4500 miles on it so it is practically brand new.

Greg is the man! We started talking about this 2 days ago and got the deal done the next day. Excellent service from start to finish. You all need to talk to Greg and save $$$ with these demos.


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## BHC (May 19, 2003)

xofruitcake said:


> Heh heh, we are terrible. It passed midnight now and we are still here .
> 
> I think I get it now. So when I figure out the depreciation portion of the lease, I will add the residual adjustment to the difference between sales price and residual. E.g. If I am leasing a demo with $60k MSRP, $50k selling price and 65% residual for a 2 yrs 12k miles per year lease. The depreciation is 50k - 60k*65%=50k - 39k= 11k. Then I add the residual adjustment of 2k (using your example). So I have a total of 13k depreciation spread out to 24 months for 541.6 a month in depreciation. In this case, can i just sign a standard 15k mi per year lease with residual of 63% and return the car at 30k miles on the odometer when I turn in the car? And my depreciation would be 50k-60k*63%=12.2k spread out 24 months for a monthly depreciation of 508.33 with the understanding that I can only drive 19. 5k miles in the next 24 months since the car already has 10500 miles on the odometer.
> 
> ...


You should email/PM Greg. Without going into details, my 2014 535 is $63.5K MSRP and I used 7 MSDs...so it's somewhat similar to your set up. Let's just say you would be very happy with my payments.  If you're looking for a 5 series demo, you may want to jump on it earlier than later. With the 2015's out, the 2014 demos with the larger discounts may not be around in December - Greg correct me if I'm wrong.


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## xofruitcake (Jul 24, 2010)

[email protected] BMW said:


> You will never know what they paid for the car bottom line.... All you can do is compare the lease on this car to a brand-new one if payment is 150 to 200 less it's a good deal.... The worse the color combination the better your chances at a great deal become. You can check our website for comparative pricing.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
> [email protected]


I think that is the best way to look at leasing a demo. There is no real need to try to squeeze every penny out of the deal. Saving 150 to 200 bucks a month compare to a new lease is a big deal as it represent 20-30% saving already. The tough par is to locate a car that we like. Most of the cars on demo list seems to be mostly black interior and various of black exterior.


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## flaggrad00 (Jun 21, 2011)

TXPearl said:


> Drive by the CA's house and see what's sitting in the driveway.


Believe me if the dealership was not an hour away I would swing by a day or two in the next week to see if it was parked there.


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## xofruitcake (Jul 24, 2010)

flaggrad00 said:


> Believe me if the dealership was not an hour away I would swing by a day or two in the next week to see if it was parked there.


I would say don't waste another minute on that car. Just move on and find yourselves another nice one. What will you do if you find out the CA bought the car herself instead? There is nothing you can do at that point and the dealership will certainly not do anything on your behalf. It is just a waste of time and emotion energy trying to figure this one out.


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## flaggrad00 (Jun 21, 2011)

xofruitcake said:


> I would say don't waste another minute on that car. Just move on and find yourselves another nice one. What will you do if you find out the CA bought the car herself instead? There is nothing you can do at that point and the dealership will certainly not do anything on your behalf. It is just a waste of time and emotion energy trying to figure this one out.


That is sage advice, heeding it however will not be so easy.


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## flaggrad00 (Jun 21, 2011)

randyjstark said:


> Greg, if I am looking at a 2014 "service loaner" with 10k miles from a dealer with a MSRP of 59,050 and a sale price of 40,500 do I use 2014 residuals and MF's to calculate a lease? Is there anything I am missing?
> 
> If so, I could end up with a lease payment under 300/mo if I do MSD's...


Ok so you can lease a service loaner? I just spoke with CA who told me a 2014 3 series service loaner was not leasable.


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## patelshivam94 (Aug 31, 2013)

flaggrad00 said:


> Ok so you can lease a service loaner? I just spoke with CA who told me a 2014 3 series service loaner was not leasable.


Unless anything has changed for the month, a 2014 3 series loaner should be leasable.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Yes you can lease a 2014 service loaner easily.......


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

Is this a good candidate for disclosure exe-demo car?

http://www.pacificbmw.com/commercia...les-area-432383140a0a00022fae35a6e6efdfef.htm


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

it's ok..... the 535's and 550's are the best


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

[email protected] BMW said:


> it's ok..... the 535's and 550's are the best


I guess I am stuck with my Hybrid5


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

flaggrad00 said:


> Ok so you can lease a service loaner? I just spoke with CA who told me a 2014 3 series service loaner was not leasable.


I think what the CA meant is "You cannot lease it from me as I cannot make the money I need to make by selling/leasing service loaners"

Folks, with all these "great deal" scenarios, you can't download an App and find them somewhere... out of 1000 cars leased 2-3 will be these kinds of one-offs. AT least that is my impression.


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## patelshivam94 (Aug 31, 2013)

Just a question hopefully Greg or another dealer Can answer.

Are BMW incentives available for the for the month for new cars applicable to BMW NA Cars sold at auction, being re-sold?

Thanks, In advance.





Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Certain incentives count some do not....you have to check with dealer. For what it worth just did a 550 deal on a demo with a Fest member for under $500 a month with a simple drive off. Pacific BMW has a lot of demo deals.....you need to check our website


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## schnell525 (Feb 6, 2007)

I really don't see on a lease scenario where there's that great of a savings to take a demo or loaner car. You don't know the history. You don't know how the car has been treated. IMO the discount is not that significant.

I'd rather take a new car, negotiate from there, and have lemon protection. Dealers dangling a few bucks in someone's face due to a car being a demo is pretty lame IMO. I saw a very distinctive dealer-owned 750 being driven around for a few months. Then I spotted it with a significant amount of body damage in the right rear of the car with a gouge going into the passenger rear door.

Yeah....this is worth the discount.... It's been someone's beater. Know your numbers, time the market and the deals rather than take someone's beater. Some may feel it's a deal but they have no idea of this history or damage. It's risky enough to take a new car due to the technology whether it will be a good car or not--taking a loaner ups that risk.

I know there are plenty of cars out there that might be A1 prime examples, but I think those are are and few--like many have pointed out that dealer staff or dealer "buddies" will see those cars far before you do.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

It does seem the demo deals are best utilized by insiders. For normal customers, the MY14 deals are pretty good, e.g., an extended family member just picked up a MY14 328i for $36k+tax+fee, or $6.5k off MSRP($42.5k), that is 15% off. The car had 7 miles when we test drove it.


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

namelessman said:


> It does seem the demo deals are best utilized by insiders. For normal customers, the MY14 deals are pretty good, e.g., an extended family member just picked up a MY14 328i for $36k+tax+fee, or $6.5k off MSRP($42.5k), that is 15% off. The car had 7 miles when we test drove it.


You might be right. I tried too. Currently have an offer for a MY14 640i xdrive Gran Coupe for $72,500 plus tax and fees. Original Msrp $86,825. New not demo.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

ok, ....I'm going to say this then bow out......Some of you guys are just not getting it.....I am not talking about a "Dealer demo" that owner drives and beats up. I am talking about a BMW NA factory car. Like I have said if you are picky and anal about what you want this may not be the deal for you. Note I have two festers that already got killer deals this month, they understood the program and the deal a 2014 535 for $377 and a 2014 550 for $495 INCLUDING TAX.....!! ..... LETS BE CLEAR.. you can not "negotiate: a better deal a SIMILAR new car.....you do not have to be a insider, you just have to be open and find the right deals/dealer. Now keep in mind again... NOT every demo deal may work... sometime dealer may pay to much for car, so the #'s may not work. THESE CARS NOT FOR EVERYONE.... in fact one of the owners that got a deal is on this thread. If you non-believers want to see how this offer can work for you maybe you should call me or talk to me FIRST for details and I can explain how this can benefit you as long as you come with open mind. OK enough said, peace.


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## BHC (May 19, 2003)

I'm one of those that got the deal this month from Greg. This is actually my second demo. My first demo was a few years back, a fully loaded 2009 335 Coupe for around $450 including CA tax. This was when my friends were paying $600-$700 for the same loaded Coupe. Both demos look brand new and includes full warranty through the length of my lease. I just pay a few hundred bucks less per month. Demos are best to be leased. I turn it in in 3 years, who cares what the history (if any) is?

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

We did check out the Pacific demo inventory and the ones we are interested in usually have 10k+ miles, while local inventories are available with comparable discounts and with less than 10 miles on odometer. For this specific case the demo available does not seem to work for us. Also the buyer tends to keep the car for a little while(maybe 5-6 years) so the lease option is not viable.


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## dima123 (Jul 7, 2005)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Certain incentives count some do not....you have to check with dealer. For what it worth just did a 550 deal on a demo with a Fest member for under $500 a month with a simple drive off. Pacific BMW has a lot of demo deals.....you need to check our website


Greg any dealer you might know that deals with Demo's around NYC area??? I wish I can take advantage of these deals!!! thanks!!


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Sorry I do not... I do out of state transactions, maybe I can help?


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## dima123 (Jul 7, 2005)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Sorry I do not... I do out of state transactions, maybe I can help?


My lease on my 2012 528 is up in march!! Well be in contact before then!! Thanks!!

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## mbanks21 (Aug 5, 2003)

Any demos ever come with manual tranny? 3 or 5er?


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

YES SOMETIMES.... you have to check our inventory.


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

Greg - I will definitely be interested in this when it comes time to lease (end of Oct - latest end of Nov).

Not to sound overly greedy as this is a great find for leasing folks, but if BMW is offering build out cash or any incentive like that on a given model, would that be applicable as well?

Thanks much!


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## kvsm3 (Dec 16, 2007)

Hello all,
A local dealer has a demo 2014 X5 SDrive M sport with 1039 miles for $59781. MSRP is $67250. From what I have read here, it seems this car can be leased. If so, would the residuals and MF change drastically from a new 2014? They have several 2014s with varying miles in stock. What would be a good offer for this vehicle, maybe start at invoice?
TIA
Kris


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Same question as previous post. On a 2014 exec X1 2.8xdrive, how do we figure residual? It has about 4600 miles. MSRP around $45.5k, dealer asking $34k. Would do 10/36.


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## EatonZ26 (Jun 27, 2014)

I believe you calculate as if it is new and then adjust residual at 20 center per mile.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Right but 2014 residuals aren't published anymore so...


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## napolehon (Nov 18, 2014)

2014 X1s are not leaseable anymore - At least that is what the dealer said when I tried to do so.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

This is an executive demo model. I think the rules are a little different. But not sure.


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## napolehon (Nov 18, 2014)

sorry I was also talking about a demo model as well. he said X1 and X3 are not allowed


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## Scorchpa (Nov 27, 2011)

So Greg,

On this Z4

http://www.pacificbmw.com/used/BMW/2014-BMW-Z4-los-angeles-6c3b1db80a0a006471e5c7ed46b1b055.htm

Your price is $44,995
MSRP is $62,525.

The residuals (of 2015) vehicles seem to be 65% which would put it at $40,641,

So am I to believe that I can lease this car based on only $4350/39 = $112+/month?


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## EatonZ26 (Jun 27, 2014)

.


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## Squeak (Sep 13, 2014)

EatonZ26 said:


> You are way too optimistic on these assumptions:
> 1.) This car has 10K miles on it, not sure if BMW FS would lease something with this many miles.
> 2.) You are putting a BMW FS offer for a 2015 model on a used 2014 model. No way that's going to happen. I lease a Z4 and got a heck of a deal on a 2015 but I wasn't allowed to get the same deal on a new 2014 much less a used 2014.
> 3.) Even if you are allowed to lease this, you need to adjusted the residual by the miles on the car (20 cents a mile I believe).
> ...


1) I just got a lease quote from Greg on another 2014 model with over 15k miles on it, and he said there is no issue leasing it.

2) Yeah -- the programs are different. Residual rate I just got a 36m/10k lease was 61%, where as the current program is more like 39m at 58% with all of the incentives (you don't get those)

3) This is correct. For 15k miles, you have take another $3k off the residual, so you would be more in a residual of around $34k (60% and another $3k off), so the deprecation would be more like $10k (plus rent charge).


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

EatonZ26 said:


> I believe you calculate as if it is new and then adjust residual at 20 center per mile.


delete post. Sorry.


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## ENAHS (Dec 27, 2012)

Is there still a $725 acquisition fee with "used" leases?


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## Frosty_spl (Dec 23, 2014)

Scorchpa said:


> So Greg,
> 
> On this Z4
> 
> ...


If this is true or double, I will pick it up this week. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

sorry no more 2014 Z4 lease sales support :-(


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## Frosty_spl (Dec 23, 2014)

Does that include the Valencia Orange 28i listed on your website? Or is that long gone? Oops that's a 2015, nevermind!

http://www.pacificbmw.com/specials/used.htm


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## Krinkles (Nov 7, 2014)

Can you guys explain what a damage disclosure means? Haven't head this term yet.


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## dima123 (Jul 7, 2005)

Whats the lease rate on 2014 535 xdrive??


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## drumrob23 (Sep 11, 2014)

I am definitely thinking of going this route. I just spoke to Greg about getting a 5 series and hopefully he can get me a great deal on one of them. Check out his dealership they have a little bit of everything!!


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

General question for the CA's on here:

I did a quick search of cars in my area and carfax has them listed as either "corporate" use or "commercial" use and they show up as 1-owner cars. What's the difference between corporate use and commercial use? Why would they be listed as 1-owner cars?

I also noticed that the cars that [email protected] has listed show up as "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle" with 0-owners. Is that the exact requirement which makes these cars eligible for this special program? Is a car listed as "corporate" or "commercial" use with 1-owner still eligible for the new car lease rates?

Trying to understand exactly what I should be looking for when reviewing the carfax reports as most local dealers will not be as helpful as sponsors of Bimmerfest and will not voluntarily provide the info required to get the best deals possible.

Thanks in advance!!:thumbup:


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

Hello.....??? Anyone out there......??? Everyone has mysteriously vanished.....


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Means car was damaged on bmw na watch... And fixed by BMW NOT. A 3rd party. Full warranty etc ... Plus access to all current lease programs. I have done Three demo deals in last week to festers who get it!


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## maxdriver (Nov 22, 2011)

dima123 said:


> Me too!! Anyone know a east coast dealer like Greg with Demos ?


http://www.bmwofcapecod.com/index.htm ...has some. They don't seem to be all on one page, you have to look individually...


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

Maxx2 said:


> General question for the CA's on here:
> 
> I did a quick search of cars in my area and carfax has them listed as either "corporate" use or "commercial" use and they show up as 1-owner cars. What's the difference between corporate use and commercial use? Why would they be listed as 1-owner cars?
> 
> ...


[email protected],

Can you answer these questions?

Would be greatly appreciated by all!

Thanks.


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## Squeak (Sep 13, 2014)

While I am not Greg, but based on all of the research I have done, you are essentially correct.

If Carfax lists the owners as "1", then it is not a Factory Demo and not available for new lease rates.

All the ones that are available have no owners listed and are listed as "Listed as a manufacturer vehicle" in the comments at the bottom.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

1 owner cars do not count. BMW demos have never been registered..most have been titled at most.


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

You'll notice most of the factory demos comes from two auction houses.

OHIO = BMWFS folks
GEORGIA = BMWNA folks

Last time I was chatting with the BMWFS customer rep during my lease transfer process, he said employees get new cars rotated every 6 months.


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## Squeak (Sep 13, 2014)

ae86pwr said:


> You'll notice most of the factory demos comes from two auction houses.
> 
> OHIO = BMWFS folks
> GEORGIA = BMWNA folks
> ...


Ironically, the demo I just closed on came from BMWFS here in Columbus. I live in Columbus.

But I bought it from Greg in LA -- so it has to make the trip there and back.


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

Squeak said:


> Ironically, the demo I just closed on came from BMWFS here in Columbus. I live in Columbus.
> 
> But I bought it from Greg in LA -- so it has to make the trip there and back.


Greg's shop buys good demos. Most of them are fully loaded :thumbup:


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## Squeak (Sep 13, 2014)

ae86pwr said:


> Greg's shop buys good demos. Most of them are fully loaded :thumbup:


Oh yeah. $83k MSRP 550i XDrive GT (I know, I know -- I like the way it looks and hell of a deal!)

Came with almost all of the main options you would want, except for cold weather (still has heated front seats) and DHP. Kick ass color as well.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Sold a DEMO Z4 to a Vegas Fester last week a demo 328 to a fester 2 days ago have another fester picking up a demo 328 SW tomorrow. DEMO MADNESS!!!! payments are crazy!!! come on fellas....


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## bnguyen1983 (Sep 15, 2014)

Sending you an email Greg.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

2014 demo 328sw sold to fester today!!! LOADED $349 a month!!! $52K+ msrp


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## drumrob23 (Sep 11, 2014)

Looking forward in meeting you Friday Greg!! Can't wait to pick her up


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## LALAJI (Dec 1, 2014)

Greg, I wish you were in the NY/NJ area...


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## Squeak (Sep 13, 2014)

LALAJI said:


> Greg, I wish you were in the NY/NJ area...


Some of these deals are so smoking that it is worth having it shipped home (exactly what I just did -- only cost $800 to get to Ohio).


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## brianmhealy (Jun 8, 2015)

IAMKai - I too am looking at this option. One thing you need to pay attention to is the MSRP of each vehicle. My guess is that you are not comparing apples to apples. Double check all the options that were being offered on the used vehicle verse the other. If they are exactly the same then yes this is not a dealer to work with, in fact I would point it out to them and see what their response is. If they don't correct it move on to another dealer. Let me know how your experience goes, PM me with the details.


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## brianmhealy (Jun 8, 2015)

Did they tell you the DFTUSA $1k was not eligble?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

IAmKai said:


> For example, I received a quote from a *new sales CA* for a $53,245 MSRP car for ~$45,600 (after $1.5k build out and $1k Team USA Credit).
> 
> The dealer has a loaner version of that same car with 8500 miles for $44,888. The *pre-owned sales CA* said that the price is nearly non-negotiable (said MAYBE $400-500 off at most). Just to add more detail, the car has a production date of 11/17/14, sat for 2 months, was used as a loaner for 5 months, and has been for sale for 1.5 months now.
> 
> I can't imagine anyone would go for a 6.5 month old, 8500 mile car when they could get brand new for $1k more, right? Or am I not thinking about this correctly?


That should be an easy decision for you, right? 

You have no way of knowing how much a used car is on the books for compared to a new car. In this particular case, you're dealing with a dealership that has separate new and used car departments. Some of their used cars may have been bought at auction and sometimes those used car managers bid crazy prices because they need more inventory. Then, all of a sudden, the manufacturer adds new incentives to the new cars and the new car guys are killing the used car guys with the deals they can offer.

Sometimes there is no rational explanation for why a certain car is priced the way it is other than to say that that's what they want for it. Buy the car you like best, including the price.


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## IAmKai (Jan 14, 2014)

brianmhealy said:


> Did they tell you the DFTUSA $1k was not eligble?


The email they sent about the credit notes that it's only eligible for use on new cars, so I'm pretty sure it's not, though I didn't inquire. Can't hurt to ask, I suppose. I'll PM with you what I end up doing and any details either way.


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## IAmKai (Jan 14, 2014)

Ninong said:


> That should be an easy decision for you, right?
> 
> You have no way of knowing how much a used car is on the books for compared to a new car. In this particular case, you're dealing with a dealership that has separate new and used car departments. Some of their used cars may have been bought at auction and sometimes those used car managers bid crazy prices because they need more inventory. Then, all of a sudden, the manufacturer adds new incentives to the new cars and the new car guys are killing the used car guys with the deals they can offer.
> 
> Sometimes there is no rational explanation for why a certain car is priced the way it is other than to say that that's what they want for it. Buy the car you like best, including the price.


It may be easier than I'm letting myself make it, sure. Haha. I wouldn't call myself stingy or cheap, but I definitely care about saving money when I can, so I wanted to ensure I wasn't leaving any money on the table in the discount sense. You bring up a good point about new incentives hurting the used department on demos, but I figured the market would dictate the demo should be discounted even more to stay competitive. I don't know their numbers, of course, and it's possible there are people that are happy with any extra discount. I could even end up being one of those people, but, again, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on more potential discounts. I appreciate the reply.


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## Badboy8813 (Jul 20, 2015)

Hey I'm going through this process of leasing a demo right now with a dealership but they mentioned having to buy back the miles that are already on the car? 

Does this make any sense?


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## AksNasZasNas (May 30, 2013)

Badboy8813 said:


> Hey I'm going through this process of leasing a demo right now with a dealership but they mentioned having to buy back the miles that are already on the car?
> 
> Does this make any sense?


The residual is reduced by 20 cents for each mile over 500 miles. I.e, a $34,200 residual will be reduced to $33,200 if the car has 5500 miles on it.


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## Badboy8813 (Jul 20, 2015)

Okay, awesome. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Badboy8813 (Jul 20, 2015)

What if the demo has been titled? would still qualify for the lease incentives?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Badboy8813 said:


> What if the demo has been titled?


Then it's not a demo, it's a used car and it will be sold on a used car report of sale. A demo may have miles on it and its in-service date is whatever date the dealer placed it in demo service but you would be the first retail owner of the car. With a used car, you are not the first retail owner of the car and it would not be sold to you on a new car report of sale.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

*Lease: demo vs. "used" exec. vehicle?*

There is a lot of truth to that last statement.... however if a car has been titled to BMW North America it does get a used car registration ....additionally bmw FS still allows us to apply new car rates and residuals to it so it can still be a nice lease deal.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

[email protected] BMW said:


> There is a lot of truth to that last statement.... however if a car has been titled to BMW North America it does get a used car registration ....additionally bmw FS still allows us to apply new car rates and residuals to it so it can still be a nice lease deal.


Right, that's one exception I overlooked. Mainly I was thinking about situations where the dealership rolled a new car on the weekend only to find out Monday that BMWFS absolutely refused to approve the credit. So then the dealership takes the car back but decides to start driving it and using it as a demo even though it's really just a used car. Another situation would be where the dealership provides the use of a new car to an employee who is not qualified (under state rules) to drive a demo. That car has to be plated and titled and sold as a used car when it is sold. It's titled to the dealership.

Sometimes, at some dealerships, some sales people may say that such and such a car is a demo when it's really not. Maybe it was a rollback, maybe it was driven by the office manager or the service manager or the parts manager, or another person not qualified to drive a demo. Those employees can drive cars but they can't drive demos. Any cars they drive must be registered and become used cars.

P.S. -- Rollbacks are not actually titled but fees do have to be posted and registration is held by DMV in the dealership's name pending retail sale on a used car report of sale. In other words, DMV doesn't actually title the car in the name of the first buyer, the one whose credit was rejected resulting in the rollback. The warranty is ticking from the date the car was first rolled and it does not qualify for any new car programs because it is now a used car. Some dealerships will drive that car and use it for demo purposes even though it's really just a used car. It's better if they don't drive it and try to sell it as quickly as possible with as few miles on it as possible.


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## Badboy8813 (Jul 20, 2015)

Ninong said:


> Right, that's one exception I overlooked. Mainly I was thinking about situations where the dealership rolled a new car on the weekend only to find out Monday that BMWFS absolutely refused to approve the credit. So then the dealership takes the car back but decides to start driving it and using it as a demo even though it's really just a used car. Another situation would be where the dealership provides the use of a new car to an employee who is not qualified (under state rules) to drive a demo. That car has to be plated and titled and sold as a used car when it is sold. It's titled to the dealership.
> 
> Sometimes, at some dealerships, some sales people may say that such and such a car is a demo when it's really not. Maybe it was a rollback, maybe it was driven by the office manager or the service manager or the parts manager, or another person not qualified to drive a demo. Those employees can drive cars but they can't drive demos. Any cars they drive must be registered and become used cars.
> 
> P.S. -- Rollbacks are not actually titled but fees do have to be posted and registration is held by DMV in the dealership's name pending retail sale on a used car report of sale. In other words, DMV doesn't actually title the car in the name of the first buyer, the one whose credit was rejected resulting in the rollback. The warranty is ticking from the date the car was first rolled and it does not qualify for any new car programs because it is now a used car. Some dealerships will drive that car and use it for demo purposes even though it's really just a used car. It's better if they don't drive it and try to sell it as quickly as possible with as few miles on it as possible.


so this means this car is definitely not a demo

http://www.bmwofchattanooga.com/cer...Drive35i-7c90885a0a0a006512dedf040328783d.htm

While this one might be

http://www.gwinnettbmw.com/detail-2015-bmw-x5-xdrive35i-used-13389573.html


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Here's what they're claiming about the first one:
"This One Owner vehicle has a Certified Clean Carfax.
Every Certified Pre-Owned BMW comes with a protection plan designed to give you the ultimate peace-of-mind, covering you for up to 2 years/50,000 after the expiration of the 4-year/50,000-mile New Vehicle/SAV Limited Warranty or for a total of 6 years/100,000 miles."

They're saying it's a CPO, so it would qualify for whatever special programs BMW is offering right now on those. Should be pretty good, just not new car rates.

The second one is a service loaner. I hate to comment on these now that I'm retired but I believe they qualify for new car programs the same as other demos. That's what they're claiming and I believe that is correct.

Always check with the client adviser with specific questions, especially questions about how registrations are handled in your particular state because different states sometimes do things differently. BMW determines which cars actually qualify for new car programs and which don't and that doesn't change from state to state. If the dealer claims that a car qualifies for new car rates, then that's pretty unequivocal. That's the second one I'm talking about here. I have no clue what's going on with that first car other than to point out that the dealer is calling it a "Certified Pre-Owned BMW" and a "one Owner vehicle." You might have to ask them about the "Executive Demo" claim. (P.S. -- I wonder if it's a factory car they bought at auction?? Maybe that's how they're described? You need to ask them to explain what they're talking about. Ask them if it qualifies for new car rates.)


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## HypnoticS (Sep 27, 2009)

Has BMW changed the way its computes excess miles over 500 for demos and loaners?


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

The mileage on lease overage charges has changed from .20 (.25 on 750s i believe) to .25 (.30 on 750s I believe).

So, the deduction to residual miles would change to reflect that new charge of .25 per mile.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

jjrandorin said:


> The mileage on lease overage charges has changed from .20 (.25 on 750s i believe) to .25 (.30 on 750s I believe).
> 
> So, the deduction to residual miles would change to reflect that new charge of .25 per mile.


It's 30 cents on 6-series and 7-series and 25 cents on everything else, including even the X6.


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## mbanks21 (Aug 5, 2003)

Shout out to Greg at Pacific. I've been waiting months for a manual tranny 335 to show up and he had a 2015 Msport, premium, NAV, CA, etc, etc, etc w/ only about 5k miles. Even helped ship it from CA to FL. Don't hesitate to let this guy make you a deal!


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## [email protected] (Jan 12, 2016)

Can't say how much valuable this thread to me. I didn't know that I could lease a demo/loaner before seeing this thread. I just leased a loaner 2015 328i GT in February, MSRP $49,050 for $385 a month for 36 months, 10k a year. The car had ~5k miles on it. Drive off was 1st month and 7x MSD. So just want to share my thoughts on why leasing a demo/loaner make the most sense to me (mostly financially). Hopefully this will help those on the fence of leasing a loaner/demo:

Assuming you are able to negotiate with the dealer on money factor (with or without MSD) and all other fees. So what matters now is the selling price since the residual is set by BMW. Use my car as an example, if you could get an additional 10% off of MSRP (or maybe more) for a loaner/demo vs. buying brand new (assuming you could get 10% off MSRP after all incentives), that translate to ~5k savings in sale price. If you buy the car, that's only 10% difference, but you don't have the option to equip the car to your liking, and you don't know if it was abused by others. But if you lease it and will turn it in at the end, then $5k saving in sale price will translate to ~$140 a month (or $148 including tax). That's an increase of ~38% in monthly payment ($533 vs. $385 as in my case).


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## globalv (Mar 17, 2016)

Found a killer deal on SwapALease for a 2014 535i GT. After an 1800 down payment, I am only paying $193 a month for the next 2 years. Car originally came from Century West BMW in CA as a demo. No idea how she got such a low payment but would love to find another deal like this in 2 years when my lease is up.


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## Squeak (Sep 13, 2014)

Pretty much, yeah. There's a thread on here the talks all about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


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## g8orscott (Jun 4, 2015)

Thanks. I thought I remembered seeing it but couldn't find it.


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## bimmarrr (May 17, 2017)

Can anyone find/shoot me the link to the thread on demo leases being dead? I've searched around and can't find it. Was hoping I could work out a demo lease deal this year 


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

they are not deal you just need to find the right car and miles.


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## mbanks21 (Aug 5, 2003)

Here's mine 15 months later, got it from Greg


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

nice car!


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