# Porsche to make world's most powerful diesel, beating out the X5 M50d



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

No additional comment necessary...

*Porsche Announces the Cayenne S Diesel, Most Powerful Oilburner on the Market*

by Christian Stampfer


> Porsche will soon add a second diesel model to its Cayenne line-up. The Porsche Cayenne S Diesel will join the current Cayenne Diesel and the Panamera Diesel to become the companies third diesel-powered model. The new Cayenne S Diesel will win Porsche the title of the most powerful diesel automobile.
> The &#8230;


Read the full story »


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

No mention of the BMW X5 M50d fuel consumption. Maybe it hasn't been determined yet??

Gee, I didn't know a Cayenne was an automobile. I thought it was an SUV or crossover. Don't we call that a truck usually?

PL


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

Pierre Louis said:


> No mention of the BMW X5 M50d fuel consumption. Maybe it hasn't been determined yet??...


According to official data from Europe, the X5 M50d gets 7.5 liters/100 km, and 199 g CO2/km in the NEDC - http://carfueldata.direct.gov.uk/search-new-or-used-cars.aspx?vid=29246.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Just saw a commercial where one other carmaker, Kia or Hyundai I think, called one of their crossovers a "car."

I think there is a place for "the most powerful SUV" - in a museum.

PL


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Let the diesel wars begin! :bigpimp:


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

cssnms said:


> Let the diesel wars begin! :bigpimp:


Mercedes phased out their V8 diesels due to lack of demand. From a post on another forum:

"The V8 diesel (2005-2009 S420 CDI, 2009-2010 S450CDI) was phased out with the mid-cycle refresh of the S-Class in 2010. More than 90% of S-Class buyers in Europe chose the V6 diesel. The V8 diesel and all gassers combined were less than 10% of volume. Now they have a 4-cylinder as the base diesel in the S-Class. They expect it to outsell the six in a few years. "

Mercedes already has a 4 cylinder diesel engine with 201 hp and 369 ft-lbs of torque, an engine that would make a full size 4WD Suburban (they make them smaller than they used to) work quite well.

Remember the V10 Diesel Touareg and the "demand" for it? Not.

Any demand for the Porsche will be from those that wish to tow their race cars to the track or dubious ego-driven horsepower bragging rights.

PL


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Pierre Louis said:


> Any demand for the Porsche will be from those that wish to tow their race cars to the track or dubious ego-driven horsepower bragging rights.
> 
> PL


That's right and there are plenty of egos that need stroking here in the US. :thumbup:


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

cssnms said:


> that's right and there are plenty of egos that need stroking here in the us. :thumbup:


lol!

PL


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## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

I would love to have that 4 cyl turbo diesel in any Tahoe or Yukon! I loved my Tahoe but the gas mileage sucked big time. That diesel would be just the ticket. Of course, the General would never do that -- makes too much sense. Would be great in a half ton pick up as well!:angel:


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

UncleJ said:


> I would love to have that 4 cyl turbo diesel in any Tahoe or Yukon! I loved my Tahoe but the gas mileage sucked big time. That diesel would be just the ticket. Of course, the General would never do that -- makes too much sense. Would be great in a half ton pick up as well!:angel:


Yeah they spent a bit of money developing a smaller, innovative V8 diesel to be made in NY State before the bankruptcy but the project was canned.

PL


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## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Well, maybe Ford might do something like that. They seem to be the "innovators" in this latest engineering competition among the domestics. I could live with a diesel Expedition or even a king cab F-150.:angel:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Pierre Louis said:


> Remember the V10 Diesel Touareg and the "demand" for it? Not.
> 
> PL


I wanted one of these when they were new and it was impossible for me to find one without buying it "used" at a hefty premium over msrp of a new one. I seem to remember not many were ever made and I also seem to remember they could not be sold new I states that have CARB. At the time it sure seemed like they had massive demand but limited production probably ave that impression. Although not like Porsche produces massive numbers of each model so there might be just plenty of demand for an S diesel.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

UncleJ said:


> Well, maybe Ford might do something like that. They seem to be the "innovators" in this latest engineering competition among the domestics. I could live with a diesel Expedition or even a king cab F-150.:angel:


Ford many times has started the R&D for a small diesel in an F150 and it always is dropped. I believe the last effort they dropped because of increased costs of diesel fuel but Google could probably state the reasons. I also believe that engine ended up going into Range Rovers sold outside the US. For some reason I don't see a diesel engine coming in a Ford within the States and their strong focus on EcoBoost is why I think that.

With that all said, all I really need is a half ton truck so I'd love to be able to replace my 2003 F250 with a diesel powered half ton but it is just me dreaming.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

The EPA puts up numbers that are unrealistic and the public buys them. Diesels are usually better while gasoline numbers are worse in reality. US and Japanese Manufacturers such as GM and Honda build to the test while European carmakers whose market share is different for such cars don't. Only the most knowledgeable and mechanically savvy delve into the diesel car world in the US. There's a much bigger market for more powerful diesel engines in the heavy duty trucks. Bone-headed car journalists, true to their trade, can't see past their noses to treat diesels equally for their performance potential. Truck people know about diesels but will usually try to get power and drag race you with them, in my experience, so smaller truck diesels won't find themselves in cars to offset development cost and don't seem to have a market to the manufacturers for all these reasons.

PL


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

They are using 40% more displacement, 33% more cylinders and injectors to make 0.2% more power than the BMW. Personally, my favorite engine configuration is the inline 6. Glad to have two of them.


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

@TDIwyse DITTO!!! proud owner myself


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Personally I could care less what is used to make the power just so long as it drives in a manner that puts a grin on my face.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

True off roaders will want the monsterous torque of 626 lb-ft to drive all 4 wheels. I don't envision a Cayenne S to hardly get on a dirt trail let alone buried in 4 feet of mud. Put that powertrain in a Jeep Wrangler and then we wouldhave a door to door (as opposed to ear to ear) grin. That kind of torque sounds like a blown 426 hemi or stroked 440 chrysler.


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## wanderlust (Feb 19, 2012)

jeep has been saying they would make a diesel wrangler since I first entered college... 1998...

powered by lemings


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Dakar racer! 

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App


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## dnaer (Jan 13, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> I wanted one of these when they were new and it was impossible for me to find one without buying it "used" at a hefty premium over msrp of a new one. I seem to remember not many were ever made and I also seem to remember they could not be sold new I states that have CARB. At the time it sure seemed like they had massive demand but limited production probably ave that impression. Although not like Porsche produces massive numbers of each model so there might be just plenty of demand for an S diesel.


My vehicle prior to my "D" was the Touareg V10 TDI.... awesome vehicle that I drove for almost 3 years and over 100,000 miles. While it is true that it was overkill, it towed my boats and various toys so well that you barely knew there was a trailer behind you. The adjustable air suspension was also very handy and the 600ft lbs of torque was intoxicating... all while getting almost 25mpg on the highway. The Porsche will probably find the same niche market as the V10TDI ie. very small but loyal following.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

I must say this high power V8 Porsche TDi may be very desirable just because it may be the last of its kind. Too soon in the future, fuel costs may skyrocket or diesel may eventually be replaced by a different setup such as even more efficient gasoline, LPG/LNG, electric, or even hydrogen. I'm not saying it will, or wish it so, but given the fate of the V10 Touareg, a desirable but not so well executed design (it really didn't tow well enough or give good enough fuel economy or maintenance numbers), we shall see how long this "ultimate torque Porsche truck" will stay on the market. If it doesn't we may not have anything quite like it as a replacement making this an instant classic.

PL


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

dnaer said:


> My vehicle prior to my "D" was the Touareg V10 TDI.... awesome vehicle that I drove for almost 3 years and over 100,000 miles. While it is true that it was overkill, *it towed my boats and various toys so well that you barely knew there was a trailer behind you*. The adjustable air suspension was also very handy and the 600ft lbs of torque was intoxicating... *all while getting almost 25mpg on the highway*. The Porsche will probably find the same niche market as the V10TDI ie. very small but loyal following.





Pierre Louis said:


> I must say this high power V8 Porsche TDi may be very desirable just because it may be the last of its kind. Too soon in the future, fuel costs may skyrocket or diesel may eventually be replaced by a different setup such as even more efficient gasoline, LPG/LNG, electric, or even hydrogen. I'm not saying it will, or wish it so, but given the fate of the V10 Touareg, a desirable but not so well executed design (*it really didn't tow well enough or give good enough fuel economy* or maintenance numbers), we shall see how long this "ultimate torque Porsche truck" will stay on the market. If it doesn't we may not have anything quite like it as a replacement making this an instant classic.
> 
> PL


These two quotes sure seem to contradict one another.

I had a co-worker down in Rosharon who had one of these up until he was relocated overseas. He ranted and raved about how great it was. If I remember right he had around 85k miles on it when he had to part with it. Loved the fuel economy and power of it. Used it to tow his water based tows and 4-wheelers. Don't remember him ever griping about towing issues. I also do not remember him griping about repairs or maintenance. Perhaps he was just an anomaly.

I am sure a lot of reasons killed the V10 such as who is willing to pay upwards of $80k for a VW, engine could not pass stricter emissions, everything was gear driven so if something broke it took a bit of effort to replace it, if someone wants power do they really go looking at a VW for it and so on.


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

wasnt that the same prototype engine that AUDI used to win many races i.e. lemans, etc with its V10 Diesel?


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

wanderlust said:


> jeep has been saying they would make a diesel wrangler since I first entered college... 1998...
> 
> powered by lemings


They did, and they do. It was in the Liberty. A rather crappy Italian engine.:thumbdwn:

They also offer diesel in all of their overseas vehicles, just not here.:dunno:


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Flyingman said:


> They did, and they do. It was in the Liberty. A rather crappy Italian engine.:thumbdwn:
> 
> They also offer diesel in all of their overseas vehicles, just not here.:dunno:


It was the torque converter that was crappy. It locked up really late and gave poor fuel economy. The new JGC tranny is by ZF and is an 8 speed.

PL


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> They did, and they do. It was in the Liberty. A rather crappy Italian engine.:thumbdwn:
> 
> They also offer diesel in all of their overseas vehicles, just not here.:dunno:


They also had a GC w/MBZ engine for a short while.


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## dnaer (Jan 13, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> These two quotes sure seem to contradict one another.
> 
> I had a co-worker down in Rosharon who had one of these up until he was relocated overseas. He ranted and raved about how great it was. If I remember right he had around 85k miles on it when he had to part with it. Loved the fuel economy and power of it. Used it to tow his water based tows and 4-wheelers. Don't remember him ever griping about towing issues. I also do not remember him griping about repairs or maintenance. Perhaps he was just an anomaly.
> 
> I am sure a lot of reasons killed the V10 such as who is willing to pay upwards of $80k for a VW, engine could not pass stricter emissions, everything was gear driven so if something broke it took a bit of effort to replace it, if someone wants power do they really go looking at a VW for it and so on.


Having actually OWNED one, towed with it and calculated MPG, I stand by assessment.


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## dnaer (Jan 13, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> These two quotes sure seem to contradict one another.
> 
> I had a co-worker down in Rosharon who had one of these up until he was relocated overseas. He ranted and raved about how great it was. If I remember right he had around 85k miles on it when he had to part with it. Loved the fuel economy and power of it. Used it to tow his water based tows and 4-wheelers. Don't remember him ever griping about towing issues. I also do not remember him griping about repairs or maintenance. Perhaps he was just an anomaly.
> 
> I am sure a lot of reasons killed the V10 such as who is willing to pay upwards of $80k for a VW, engine could not pass stricter emissions, everything was gear driven so if something broke it took a bit of effort to replace it, if someone wants power do they really go looking at a VW for it and so on.


Having actually OWNED one, towed with it and calculated MPG, I stand by assessment. 
I didn't have a problem with the price tag because I saw the technology and engineering behind the vehicle and saw the value... didn't matter to me if it was a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or a VW. But no doubt, most people wont pay $75,000 for a "peoples car"


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

dnaer said:


> didn't matter to me if it was a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes or a VW. But no doubt, most people wont pay $75,000 for a "peoples car"


I am the same way but I think a lot of people are not.


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## dnaer (Jan 13, 2011)

A


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

Trolling for attention...Unfortunately, diesel is subsidized in Germany. They will be on the way out if the politicians have it their way. None of the Asian mfgs are promoting diesel. Yes, Mazda is the first one with a diesel. If the Germans do not promote diesel, it will die. The future seems to be in hybrids, yuck.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Dave 330i said:


> Trolling for attention...Unfortunately, diesel is subsidized in Germany. They will be on the way out if the politicians have it their way. None of the Asian mfgs are promoting diesel. Yes, Mazda is the first one with a diesel. If the Germans do not promote diesel, it will die. The future seems to be in hybrids, yuck.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

There's a difference between a subsidy and a tax. There is no subsidy - it's a tax.

And it's a difference of less than 10%.

Sheesh.

PL


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## serge1 (Jan 6, 2012)

JSpira said:


> No additional comment necessary...


I will comment.
M50d http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=261646
Weight: 4905 lbs
Acceleration: 5.3

Cayenne Disel S http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/porsche-cayenne-s-diesel-2012-42-tdi-v8-382-hp.html 
Weight: 4839 lbs
Acceleration: 5.7 seconds

Having most powerful engine doesn't help if you can't connect all that power with the pavement.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

TDIwyse said:


> They are using 40% more displacement, 33% more cylinders and injectors to make 0.2% more power than the BMW. Personally, my favorite engine configuration is the inline 6. Glad to have two of them.


Yup, Porsche isn't trying a tri-turbo setup, just yet. It will probably be much more bulletproof and reliable, compared to BMW's setup


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yeah, I must admit the idea of a triple turbo setup is intriguing and all but it sure does not give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about long term reliability. I think that is a setup I will wait a very long time on, if it even were ever to get offered here.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

serge1 said:


> I will comment.
> M50d http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/?car=261646
> Weight: 4905 lbs
> Acceleration: 5.3
> ...


We all know that manufacturer quoted times don't mean anything. For example, BMW "says" that the F30's N20 makes 240hp, but it makes it at the wheels, not the crank.


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

@AutoUnion I believe some Car Buff Mag made a dyno run on the F30 and they clocked 277 whp!! Anyway I recall my many times in DUBAI when i was crossing a street and heard a Town & Country Chrysler with a DIESEl, I saw many Jeep with DIESELS, and this was back in 96-98 when I was there. I question people in DUBAI and they stated that most of the American cars were guess what? DIESELS!!!!!


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

AutoUnion said:


> Yup, Porsche isn't trying a tri-turbo setup, just yet. It will probably be much more bulletproof and reliable, compared to BMW's setup


Until we have some actual data to compare, it's difficult to accurately predict which setup will be more reliable. Here's hoping they're both robust designs.


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