# ED Flight Experience



## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

The LH flight was great and nice looking flight attendants and free drinks. The LH plane was also the newer model Airbus with personal entertainment system. Our flight back was using United and I regretted changing my original schedule. I changed our original schedule 7 weeks ago after I got the confirmation date and time from BMW NA. I used the LH 2-1 deal. Our original flight was supposed to be LH back and forth but I moved the return flight from 9 to 12 PM. The 12:20 PM flight is by UA. I have to write this now before I cool down and forget my bad experience with UA. We were there 3 hrs before our scheduled flight but we were told that we didn’t call ahead to get a confirm seating assignments. I didn’t do it with LH and all our flights were confirmed. This is the first time I heard that you have to get a confirm SEATING assignment in advance. I know that you can request for a seating assignment but that is just optional. We have traveled a lot to Asia, Caribbean and Oceania but never heard of seating assignment confirmation. I know about flight confirmation and all our flights were confirmed. But wait there is more. They are now selling us this extra $95 /person in the economy class but with extra leg room. Naturally I declined their offer so they told us to wait in the gate and our name will be called to be given the final seat assignments. Time has passed until they are now boarding the plane but our names were not called. I went to see another gate nearby and asked for any update. The lady on the gate counter was surprised that they still didn’t call us yet. She then assigned us our seat on what is available at the last row. Another twist to the story, I then asked her why they have to wait before giving us the seat assignment. She responded and I quote “we are tying to sell those ECONOMY class with extra leg room first”. So practically, they are filling up all those crappy seats before giving up that ECONOMY class with extra leg room. Then we have to pay for any beer or wine during the flight and the plane they were using is the older Airbus. Obviously the flight was delayed for 25 minutes so we missed our connecting flight from Chicago back to Ohio by 5 minutes. We waited for another 4 hours (wait listed) before getting our confirmed flight back home to Columbus Ohio . We were supposed to be home by 7:00 PM but instead reached home @ 12:00 AM. So next time (if there will be a next time), I will take LH flight all the way. Sorry for this vent but I was really pissed off and it almost ruined our ED experience.


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## Sam Cogley (Jun 8, 2008)

Any American carrier that isn't Southwest is totally useless, rude and pathetic. End of story.


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Assuming you made the changes with LH, why didn't they make seat assignments for you? I can't imagine traveling without a confirmed seat assignment (Southwest excepted), without one you are going to get whatever is left. Economy+ is a section with more legroom that is sold at a premium, it shouldn't be surprising that any company would hold those seats for passengers who pay extra for them. Especially with oil prices near double what they were a year ago. It might be different if airfares were double what they were a year ago. For that matter if ticket prices merely kept up with inflation for the last few decades, it would be a vastly different story! Maybe drinks would still be free then. :angel:

As far as the flight being delayed 25 minutes, looking on the company computer for the last week, all flights between MUC and ORD were on time except one which departed the gate almost exactly on-time but arrived 15 minutes late due to an extra 14 minutes of flight time (headwinds). Unfortunately if you miss your connecting flight you can only be re-accommodated on the next available flight. It wouldn't be fair to bump another passenger who was already "confirmed" on a later flight would it? Since it's the busy summer there aren't many empty seats in the system.

I get a little miffed sometimes at the tales of woe spread on the internet about airlines. Customer service issues aside, you were transported *SAFELY* 5000 miles within 15 minutes of your planned arrival time! I'm truly sorry if arriving home a few hours late ruined your ED experience! Enough of the soap box............enjoy the heck out of your new car. I hope you have a speedy re-delivery. :thumbup:

Erik


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

As one who has to fly often, I feel for you.

This is the general state of travel these days.....since you did not state it, I assume you where able to get your bags. On my flight to Europe and back in late June, my bags were lost and it took two solid weeks for them to get returned.

The additional charge for seats, luggage etc is getting ridiculous. I know that the airlines are scrapping by, but why can't I just pay the extra if I want to when I buy my ticket.

The delays and other general BS that happens these days does not make it fun to fly.

Its just a tin can moving cattle now.

As a general rule I call ahead to confirm before my flight and dispite what it says on the ticket. This way I can by-pass the bull or mistakes before I get to the airport.

And......FWIW -- flying domestic is not much better especially if there is ANY kind of bad weather.


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## ssabripo (May 29, 2002)

crud!

now I gotta rethink things! I have my ED flights coming back from Paris via UA instead of LH, and this does not bode well!


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

ssabripo said:


> crud!
> 
> now I gotta rethink things! I have my ED flights coming back from Paris via UA instead of LH, and this does not bode well!


Just call ahead and don't make the same mistake I made. Or shall I say don't allow them to make a reason to charge you more. But for the service and amenities I will take LH all the time from now on, even if there was no problem with the seating arrangements.


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

I'm actually okay with the fee ($95 is a little high, but I would have paid it for the long flight). I tall and somewhat claustrophobic. Every inch of leg room counts! That fee gives me a fighting chance at the good seats, and deters people who don't need the extra from taking them. The extra bag fee...now that's another question


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## Zheeeem (Feb 29, 2008)

valeram said:


> Our flight back was using United and I regretted changing my original schedule.


Yeah. This is pretty much standard when you have a booking on one carrier then change one of the legs to a "partner". In this case, UA was simply not committed to you as their customer. Nor were your preferences seamlessly transferred from LH to UA.

Whenever I travel I always get on line (or on the phone) about 23 hours and 57 minutes before the flight to make sure that I have the seats I want, and that I'm not going to face any problems at the airport. Seatguru is a big help.

Don't think LH is much better than UA. If you had booked on UA then switched a leg over to LH, odds are something similar would have happened.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

I have found the Economy + seats to be worth the expense especially for long over seas flights. United has a plan that allows you to purchase access to these seats for a year, for a not unreasonable fee and they do make a difference in comfort. Pay the money or we may alll be flying an a United States National Airline operated by the government. Space available on a C-130 will seem like luxury travel then.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

ssabripo said:


> crud!
> 
> now I gotta rethink things! I have my ED flights coming back from Paris via UA instead of LH, and this does not bode well!





> *Zheeem: *Don't think LH is much better than UA. If you had booked on UA then switched a leg over to LH, odds are something similar would have happened.


Our experience is that you can have problems with any carrier (although I do like Singapore and Virgin Atlantic). LH is particular bad in handling "special" situations such as last-minute swaps of equipment, etc. They seem to have a "take-it-or-leave-it" attittude that drives me crazy. And their customer "service" people seem to have no authority to actually do anything.

I used to recommend following up bad experiences with a letter to the customer relations dept. I received future upgrades that were useful and valuabe from Air France and American, among others, as a result. But I fear those days are gone. Basically, the only recourse these days is to find a carrier you like and "vote" with your wallet. :bawling:


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## Sam Cogley (Jun 8, 2008)

Pedal2Floor said:


> As one who has to fly often, I feel for you.
> 
> This is the general state of travel these days.....since you did not state it, I assume you where able to get your bags. On my flight to Europe and back in late June, my bags were lost and it took two solid weeks for them to get returned.
> 
> ...


Years ago, KLM lost one of my bags for six months. They only found it under the floor of the cargo compartment when the plane went in for an extensive overhaul. 

I'm not expecting better on-time performance or anything like that from the foreign carriers, but they do tend to have better amenities.


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## CarSwami (Oct 2, 2005)

My experience with US carriers is that the level of service one receives depends upon the status that one has in their frequent flyer program. I have Global Services status on United, so I automatically get the Economy Plus seats without paying a premium when I make a reservation and I can check in a bag without paying the $15 fee. However, when I travel on another US carrier that does not belong to the Star Alliance network (which I obviously try not to do too often), I go to the back of the line!


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## 02fireman (May 29, 2008)

valeram said:


> Then we have to pay for any beer or wine during the flight and the plane they were using is the older Airbus.


UA doesn't fly any "older" Airbuses between MUC and ORD, only 767-300.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

All the flight arrangements were done 6/7 weeks prior to my final scheduled pickup and no changes after that. This is the package that was given to me when I used the LH 2-1 package. Maybe UA is flying 767-300 but I am comparing the complete package per leg. So I am comparing apple to apple. No last minute change with date and time schedule, no frequent flyer (not allowed for this LH 2-1 package) and no additional payment between the two. The LH is using a newer plane than UA (maybe only for this flight ?) with better facilities. I was able to change our seating arrangement when we were at the Chicago aiport flying out to Munich with no problem. In UA they are giving me "you have to pay more for ......" and "you should have call for advance seating preference". Telling us to wait and our name will be called for the final seating arrangement that never happen. I know it is a business decision to make more money especially in this turbulent times but sacrificing customer service is bad. Plus paying extra for wine and beer in UA. 
I am willing to pay more using LH or any other carrier except UA for long haul due to that experience. I got no problem paying more and it is usually my previous experience that dictates my future decision.


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## 02fireman (May 29, 2008)

you can blame Jet blue, Southwest and Crude oil for all the cost cutting, but pretty soon all this will change as many airlines will be shutting down...or merging.


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## mikemac (Apr 7, 2004)

Honestly I don't see what UA did wrong here. The OP didn't have assigned seats on the plane; it would have been an easy matter to have called the United toll-free number when plans changed 7 weeks before the flight and get seat reservations. You wait until you get to the airport to try and you'll be told they're assigning them at the gate; what ensued is not atypical for gate assignments. As for the complaint that UA charged more for premium seats but LH lets you move at will, that's easy. LH doesn't have economy-plus seats. You can change from any economy seat on LH to any other, no problem. United, for that matter, will let you do the same. Finally, for a poster that says they fly a lot to Asia and the Caribbean, I would assume they know that its important to allow time for connecting flights. If you're incoming flight is delayed only 25 minutes and you miss your connection, you scheduled too close. I always allow about 2 hours between flights for just this type of problem.


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## skywalkerbeth (Jul 19, 2007)

Sorry to hear that! Flying is a crapshoot for sure. I will say though once you have status, it's much better - for starters your seat assignment is automatically in the next level up. I already have my 2009 status - my flight to Germany and back bumped me over!


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## ucdbiendog (Nov 19, 2007)

i have to chime in here too, since i also flew LH to munich, but was on UA on the way back (from Paris). The UA flight was as crappy as how you described, but we were on time at least =\. Sorry to hear about that, hopefully it won't stop you from doing ED again.


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## blauner (Jul 11, 2007)

I had a similar experience on my ED. I flew LH over and was treated like a king, everything was great. That is the way airlines are supposed to be. I especially liked the heated hand towels they gave you after you ate to clean up with. Flew United back into Dulles, sat in the terminal on the plane for over an hour, arrived 1.5 hrs late into Dulles, missed our connecting flight to Pittsburgh, and couldnt get on another plane until the next night, so we just took a rental car and drove it the 4 hrs to PIT. Also, the flight attendants on United were very unprofessional. But altogether, it was a great ED experience and cant wait to do it again, just wont be flying United, thats all


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

ucdbiendog said:


> i have to chime in here too, since i also flew LH to munich, but was on UA on the way back (from Paris). The UA flight was as crappy as how you described, but we were on time at least =\. Sorry to hear about that, hopefully it won't stop you from doing ED again.


Definitely not. ED experience is something that I will always cherish and looking forward to the next one. Maybe next year when it is time to change the other SUV, thinking of getting just sedan but an xi instead. But next time I know what carrier to take or what not to take.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

mikemac said:


> Honestly I don't see what UA did wrong here. The OP didn't have assigned seats on the plane; it would have been an easy matter to have called the United toll-free number when plans changed 7 weeks before the flight and get seat reservations. You wait until you get to the airport to try and you'll be told they're assigning them at the gate; what ensued is not atypical for gate assignments. As for the complaint that UA charged more for premium seats but LH lets you move at will, that's easy. LH doesn't have economy-plus seats. You can change from any economy seat on LH to any other, no problem. United, for that matter, will let you do the same. Finally, for a poster that says they fly a lot to Asia and the Caribbean, I would assume they know that its important to allow time for connecting flights. If you're incoming flight is delayed only 25 minutes and you miss your connection, you scheduled too close. I always allow about 2 hours between flights for just this type of problem.


Please read the post again. The scheduled and booking was given to me. All I asked was the day and time of departure in Ohio and Munich. I didn't set up the connecting flights between Chicago. My main issue is how they handle to seating arrangement in Munich.
Why not just give us a seat in a regular economy area and just give us an option for upgrade if we like it. They are really pushing this economy +. I don't see the reason for them to keep us waiting and not even calling us as promised. My main problem with them is their customer service (deservice). For me it is a matter of principle. I can pay that freaking $200. I bought a $70K car and $200 is just a small drop in the total cost.
The flight was delayed for 35 minutes plus the time to get our luggages which was another 45 minutes. Maybe if the connecting flight is in another city aside from Chicago, then we could make our connecting flight back home.


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## Zheeeem (Feb 29, 2008)

valeram said:


> I can pay that freaking $200. I bought a $70K car and $200 is just a small drop in the total cost.


OK. Then why not fly business class? Really, life is too short to fly economy. And as a general rule, service is considerably better.


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## Texas-Bimmer (Apr 18, 2008)

I agree 100%. Last January we travelled to Asia by Lufthansa (business). The going was fine, but while coming, they booked us on United from FRA. 

By Lufthansa it was supposed to be a direct flight to Houston, but with UA, we were routed via Philly. Yes, it was business in United too, but there is day and night difference between Lufthansa and UA. The UA business was so crappy - lousy stewardesses, seats malfunction, TV won't work, and rude ground staff at Philly. From Philly, the UA people routed us to Houston by American, with ruder sales people. Then the slueths at American had us go thru an 'advanced security' check because they thought we were travelling without luggage from overseas (what a joke).

My feeling is Lufthansa seems to shift passengers to UA flights whenever it can - because probably UA is cheaper to operate.

I wonder how one makes sure this doesn't happen. You are also correct about the free drinks. Lufthansa will give free drinks in Economy, but all US carriers will charge for those.

Bottom line - airline travel is just plain lousy these days. But if you must travel, the best airlines are still Asian airlines, and some European ones.


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## jammat (Jul 26, 2006)

guppyflyer said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Assuming you made the changes with LH, why didn't they make seat assignments for you? I can't imagine traveling without a confirmed seat assignment (Southwest excepted), without one you are going to get whatever is left. Economy+ is a section with more legroom that is sold at a premium, it shouldn't be surprising that any company would hold those seats for passengers who pay extra for them. Especially with oil prices near double what they were a year ago. It might be different if airfares were double what they were a year ago. For that matter if ticket prices merely kept up with inflation for the last few decades, it would be a vastly different story! Maybe drinks would still be free then. :angel:
> 
> As far as the flight being delayed 25 minutes, looking on the company computer for the last week, all flights between MUC and ORD were on time except one which departed the gate almost exactly on-time but arrived 15 minutes late due to an extra 14 minutes of flight time (headwinds). Unfortunately if you miss your connecting flight you can only be re-accommodated on the next available flight. It wouldn't be fair to bump another passenger who was already "confirmed" on a later flight would it? Since it's the busy summer there aren't many empty seats in the system.
> 
> ...


It's the jet lag messing with his brain. Give him a pass on this one.

Jet lag per Merriam-Webster: a condition that is characterized by various psychological and physiological effects (as fatige and IRRITABILITY), occurs following long flight through several time zones, and probably results from disruption circadian rhythms in the human body.

The OP will fell better once his circadian rhythm is back in alignment.


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## sevendown (Jun 5, 2007)

We had a similar experience as valeram, but I will admit we had a much different feeling about it.

We did the 2x1 deal. We flew LH over from Dallas to Frankfurt. The flight was delayed 3 hours, causing us to miss our connection into Munich. I thought the economy class was very cramped.

On the way back we flew the exact same 12:20 UA flight to Chicago as valeram. We did not have seat assignments and despite trying to get them through LH when we booked, and calling LH and UA direcectly several times after that, we could not get seat assignments before arriving at the airport.

At the Munich airport they did the same thing -- offered us Economy Plus for $95 dollars. We were thrilled. The extra leg room made all the difference on that long flight. The seats even "felt" wider, but I'm not sure they were. We just had more room. Also, we had individual video screens, allowing you to select your movie, which the LH Airbus did not have. Overall the experience was much better than LH, and in my view very much worth $95.

Like you said, you just spent $70,000 on a car and probably many thousands more on a European vacation. In my mind another $95 to make the trip end on a good note is a no-brainer.


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## mwagner1 (Aug 13, 2004)

HA..you think your experience was bad? My brother flew from Barcelona to Miami the other day on Iberian and he said that undoubtedly, that flight was the WORST he had ever been on..he said the flight attendants were nasty, stinky and RUDE....he said the plane was the nastiest he had ever been on, with stained seats, ripped and stained carpet, horrendous smells, sticky arm rests and worst, bathrooms that stank to high heaven.....

Yes, he got across the Atlantic safely but still, the lack of cleanliness is totally inexcusable....and Iberian is an American Airlines partner...

Cheers,


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## Texas-Bimmer (Apr 18, 2008)

>Like you said, you just spent $70,000 on a car and probably many thousands more on a European vacation. In my >mind another $95 to make the trip end on a good note is a no-brainer.

That is NOT the issue here. The airline ought to deliver on what they promise for the price they are willing to accept.
When I buy a ticket on LH, it ought to be understood that it is the airline I want to fly (except under extenuating circumstances).

What Lufthansa seems to be doing is making it a bad habit of shoving of "their" passengers on to some crappy airline, and thus absolving themselves of any responsibility.

When I buy on LH, the flight is from Houston to Frankfurt and back directly to Houston on LH. I am really then not interested in going the 'scenic' route via Philly or elsewhere and go thru all the hassles that come alongwith it.

That way these airlines like LH treat passengers, you lose on time, money, add hassles.
IMHO, when an airline does these things they ought to compensate you (upgrades is one way) instead of trying to bilk some more out of you by charging another $95.

I would rather donate the $95 to a good cause than give it to UA.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

mwagner1 said:


> HA..you think your experience was bad? My brother flew from Barcelona to Miami the other day on Iberian and he said that undoubtedly, that flight was the WORST he had ever been on..he said the flight attendants were nasty, stinky and RUDE....he said the plane was the nastiest he had ever been on, with stained seats, ripped and stained carpet, horrendous smells, sticky arm rests and worst, bathrooms that stank to high heaven.....
> 
> Yes, he got across the Atlantic safely but still, the lack of cleanliness is totally inexcusable....and Iberian is an American Airlines partner...
> 
> Cheers,


Since you're in the travel industry, you know that being in the same alliance and even code sharing is more marketing and schedule coordination than anything else. AA has no say in how Iberia operates its flights although the alliance does require coordination in benefits, lounges, etc. Similarly, Lufthansa has no control over its "partners" such as UA and those two airlines partner much more closely than AA and Iberia.

I was once on a Pan Am codeshare to Budapest flying on Malev and they didn't even tell us we were about to land or to fasten our seatbelts. When we landed, several empty seats folded forward inexplicably. And THAT Malev plane did have a Pan Am logo inside it. :yikes:


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## santj (Apr 7, 2005)

I sympathize with the original poster. UA appears to have made a business decision to attempt to force economy passengers into purchasing the economy plus seats. Even to the point of using bad service.

Several years ago, (late 1990s or early 2000s) around the time UA first started the economy plus seating and before fuel prices were as high as they are now, I was flying from Boston to Chicago with an assigned seat. I decided to use the automated Kiosk to check in. When the Kiosk asked if I wanted to check available seating I selected yes, just to see if there were any better seats available. What I did not know was this action released my assigned seat. The Kiosk said there were no seats available and my seat would be assigned at the gate. I assumed the plane had filled in the few seconds that it took me to check available seating. 

I went to the gate and was told I would need to wait until boarding had completed before they could assign a seat or I could purchase the economy plus upgrade. I chose to wait, guess what, I was given the originally assigned seat. Plus, there was several empty seats in the lower cost economy section. Why did I need to wait to be assigned my original seat? I can only speculate what the answer is, but clearly UA does not consider customer service as part of the answer.


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## cha777 (Sep 19, 2006)

Texas-Bimmer said:


> I agree 100%. Last January we travelled to Asia by Lufthansa (business). The going was fine, but while coming, they booked us on United from FRA.
> 
> By Lufthansa it was supposed to be a direct flight to Houston, but with UA, we were routed via Philly. Yes, it was business in United too, but there is day and night difference between Lufthansa and UA. The UA business was so crappy - lousy stewardesses, seats malfunction, TV won't work, and rude ground staff at Philly. From Philly, the UA people routed us to Houston by American, with ruder sales people. Then the slueths at American had us go thru an 'advanced security' check because they thought we were travelling without luggage from overseas (what a joke).
> 
> ...


You sure this was United? FRA-PHL is run only by Lufthansa (LH) and Us Airways (US), not UA. UA and US codeshare as well so your flight may have had a United number but may have been operated by USAir (all 3 in the star alliance). If you look at the T & C of the 2 or 1 program, they do not name US itself as a TATL carrier, but theoretically, if marketed as a United codeshare (which they are), they can fly you on that. Having said that, as much as I love US (the only airline that I have status on currently), their business product is far inferior to anything internationally.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

cha777 said:


> ... Having said that, as much as I love US (the only airline that I have status on currently), their business product is far inferior to anything internationally.


This is the best proof of "people will disagree" that I have seen lately. My view is that if you fly enough, you will have a bad experience on every airline. *But I have only crashed once -- on US Air. * Of course, I now do whatever possible to avoid them. :thumbdwn:


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## sevendown (Jun 5, 2007)

b-y said:


> *But I have only crashed once -- on US Air. * Of course, I now do whatever possible to avoid them. :thumbdwn:


Yea, that would kind of turn me off on a particular carrier as well.


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

b-y said:


> This is the best proof of "people will disagree" that I have seen lately. My view is that if you fly enough, you will have a bad experience on every airline. *But I have only crashed once -- on US Air. * Of course, I now do whatever possible to avoid them. :thumbdwn:


  Dude, you can't drop that on us and not tell!!!! LGA, LAX, CLT?????

Erik


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

guppyflyer said:


> Dude, you can't drop that on us and not tell!!!! LGA, LAX, CLT?????
> 
> Erik


EWR. Engine caught fire on take-off. (Turbo-prop, if I remember correctly.) The cockpit crew did a great job and kept us informed: "Those of you sitting on the right side might notice that the engine is on fire." We made a big loop around (they could not drop fuel for obvious reasons), cleared the runways, and brought us in only a bit askew to a remote part of Newark that I hope I don't see again. The conversation with Mrs. b-y went something like:

Mrs: "Should I be worried?"
Me: "Not unless you see fire engines."
Mrs: "Aren't those fire engines racing to meet us?"
Me: "Now you can worry."

I think we came off slides deployed from the left side, but I have suppressed that part. All I know is that we emptied the plane quickly and orderly, no one was hurt, and a couple of hours later many of us (but not all) boarded a replacement flight.

I guess it worked out as well as one might have hoped, but I'd rather not do it again.

(I have also had a few near misses, including an Air Canada flight to Toronto on Aug. 3, 2005, when an AF flight took our landing time and crashed as our pilot opted to go around due to thunderstorms. But the US experience was the only actual forced landing.)


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## mikemac (Apr 7, 2004)

> t the Munich airport they did the same thing -- offered us Economy Plus for $95 dollars. We were thrilled. The extra leg room made all the difference on that long flight. The seats even "felt" wider, but I'm not sure they were. We just had more room. Also, we had individual video screens, allowing you to select your movie, which the LH Airbus did not have. Overall the experience was much better than LH, and in my view very much worth $95.


Well, I'm jealous! I paid for the Economy Plus, but we still had the central TV screens on the 747.

Also, not to rag too much on the OP, but this his reply illustrates why I always travel with just a carry-on bag. I can buy anything I'm missing overseas (and I've never needed to, I just put shampoo, etc. into 3oz carry-on bottles and that's been enough for 3-week trips) but the confidence of knowing that all the stuff I have is 3 feet away from me in the overhead bin is worth a lot. And had the OP done this, they would have made the connecting flight they missed by 5 minutes because he says they spent 45 minutes waiting for luggage. It takes an adjustment to get used to travelling with just carry-on luggage, but its not really that hard to do. Some guy has a website set up that talks all about it; see http://www.onebag.com/ And for what its worth, Rick Steves, the guy with the PBS show about Europe, restricts the travellers on his trip to one carry-on bag; somehow 40,000 plus people each summer manage to take up to 3-week trips thru Europe doing just that.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

mikemac said:


> Also, not to rag too much on the OP, but this his reply illustrates why I always travel with just a carry-on bag. I can buy anything I'm missing overseas (and I've never needed to, I just put shampoo, etc. into 3oz carry-on bottles and that's been enough for 3-week trips) but the confidence of knowing that all the stuff I have is 3 feet away from me in the overhead bin is worth a lot. And had the OP done this, they would have made the connecting flight they missed by 5 minutes because he says they spent 45 minutes waiting for luggage.


I usually travel with carry-on luggage (roll aboard and Tumi laptop/briefcase thingy) but when I have multiple "activites" across a trip (I just had a keynote address which I needed a suit, meetings which I needed to be slightly less formal so just jacket and slacks, clothes for hiking, and general everyday stuff) my one-bag formula doesn't always work.


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## williewinky (Mar 20, 2007)

Sam Cogley said:


> Any American carrier that isn't Southwest is totally useless, rude and pathetic. End of story.


Ditto Ditto !!


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## santj (Apr 7, 2005)

Sam Cogley said:


> Any American carrier that isn't Southwest is totally useless, rude and pathetic. End of story.


I flew Southwest once, years ago, over Thanksgiving weekend. After checking in for the return trip, I went to the gate to board, only to discover the plane was not there. The Gate Attendant said the plane had "broke down" at the previous stop and they were hoping to find a replacement. The expected delay was 3-5 hours, assuming they could find a plane. I went to the Alaska Air gate, which had just started boarding a flight to my destination, to ask if they had any available seats, they did, and they would accept a Southwest ticket at face value, but I would need a printed ticket (all I had was an E-ticket). I went back to the Southwest gate to asked if they would print me a ticket. They asked why, I told them. They refused to print a ticket. When I pointed out that Alaska Air had a plane and they did not, so it was only reasonable for them to print me a ticket, they became very rude and pathetic. I have never flown on Southwest since this experience.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

I flew on Lufthansa a couple of years ago from SFO to FRA. I felt like a sardine in economy. The seat cushion was hard and flat and it was awful. The only bright part of the flight was the decent food and better than any one else around me service because I was able to speak german to the flight crew. otherwise, i would have been fuming. the flight back was a United from FRA to SFO and it was perhaps the 2nd best flight I EVER had. The last time I went over was United BOTH ways in econ-plus and it was a decent flight over (747) ; the flight back was on a 777 in econ-plus and it was perhaps the BEST flight i have ever taken to europe... the seats were comfortable, the food was great, we had service almost every 1.5 hours and the flight crew was a joy to talk too. Seems like we all have hit or miss with carriers, but all three of my United legs have been very very good.


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## ssabripo (May 29, 2002)

well isn't this ironic! 

so I called lufthansa to see what my options were, and the lady informs me that the UA flight back had been "cancelled" for me!!! She said that they never do that, but recently they have been wanting Lufthansa to ticket the passengers for ED immediately. Since they I had not been ticketed yet (and wont be till probably another month), they cancelled it.

I would have NEVER KNOWN this if I didn't call...would have never known this until I showed up at the airport for my trip back, with a big _"oops, sorry, your ticket was cancelled weeks ago...so thank you and F#&( you_"!:tsk:

needless to say, I booked it with lufthansa back via frankfurt to miami, and although the time sucks (6am), and the plane is a 747 instead of 777, UA can goto hell!


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## FastMarkA (Apr 21, 2008)

Just a general comment on this thread.

For every bad UA or AA story, there's a bad LH or US story. In general, U.S. carriers have inferior service levels than their foreign counterparts, but no airline is perfect -- not even Singapore Airlines (but they're damn close ).

I'm a consultant and already in CY 2008, I've had my butt in an airplane seat for 120k miles on UA and about 45k on AA. Every major U.S. airline has lost some luggage of mine. And I've had to endure three emergency landings in the crash position. If I'm "home" two weeks a month I'm lucky.

After all that flying, I've learned a thing or two. One, NEVER trust the airline -- you need to do some research on your own. Think about it: you're spending 6, 8, maybe even 15 hours in the sky with these clowns...you owe it to yourself to do some due diligence. Some of my most helpful resources are flyertalk.com, seatguru.com, and Business Traveler magazine. Some things to look for:


Find out who offers the best product on which routes.
Know how to identify suspect "code share" flight numbers.
Learn which aircraft have better seats/newer cabins and entertainment systems.

Another important step is to realize once you purchase, your job is not over. Keep your eye on the reservation at all times -- whether that's checking online or calling the airline. If there are any changes, you need to know about them; and if you don't like them, you need to find ways to fix them.

It may seem like a lot of work, but if it can reduce the already high stress level of international air travel, it's worth it.

And finally, have LOW expectations for all flights to diminish the disappointment because flying is not the "fun" experience it once was.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

Unfortunately, FastMarkA has captured the situation almost perfectly. :thumbup: If this forum were to focus on international travel in general rather than on BMW EDs, his post should be the core of the Wiki.


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## cruise_bone (Jun 6, 2007)

FastMarkA said:


> Just a general comment on this thread.
> 
> For every bad UA or AA story, there's a bad LH or US story. In general, U.S. carriers have inferior service levels than their foreign counterparts, but no airline is perfect -- not even Singapore Airlines (but they're damn close ).
> 
> ...


:clap::clap:

Well said. I don't have that many miles this year, but I do gain status and it sure helps.

I think the general comment about International airlines having better in-flight service is dead on for the major Intl carriers (BA, AF, Singapore, Emirates, etc., etc.). It's also very important if you fly frequently to get to know aircraft types and the different layouts the same aircraft models may have on different carries.

I recently went to Europe and was booked on Delta, but changed to KLM because for less $$ the KLM flight was on a much newer 777 with in seat entertainment and had a schedule that allowed 12 additional hours in Europe on a 4 day trip. DAL was on an older 767-300ER with no in-seat entertainment. I still earned Delta miles and had a much better experience on KLM than any Delta flight I have been on this year, even though it's the only flight in 08 where I haven't flown 1st/Business.

Finally, the OP said something to the effect that Naturally I didn't pay the $95. Are you kidding me? On 6-8 flight you opt out of a $95 seat with more room? And you are an experienced flyer? :yikes:

I flew on UA once from Auckland NZ to LAX. They offered a business class seat upgrade for $400. Due to the flight being 12 or 13 hours I took it and to this day it is still one of the best airline purchases I have made. KLM offered a premium cocah seats on my recent trip, except that it seemed to be based only on location, as there was no extra legroom. I think the upcharge was $50 or $75. My status on DAL got me to the third row of coach on the aisle so I declined, but if it offered more legroom I would have taken it.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

cruise_bone said:


> :clap::clap:
> Finally, the OP said something to the effect that Naturally I didn't pay the $95. Are you kidding me? On 6-8 flight you opt out of a $95 seat with more room? And you are an experienced flyer? :yikes:


Pleae read the post again so that you can understand why I am venting. It is not the $95 but the principle behind it. I was comparing my experience between our inbound flight using LH against the outbound UA. I've got no problem with economy seating. My ED experience was so great that I don't care where UA put me. Why not just give us a seat if in fact we have a confirmed booking. Why do we have to wait for our name to be called (they didn't call our name by the way, we have to see the person on the gate and passengers were already boarding) just to give us a seat. It looks like they are forcing us to take that $95 economy + that (for me) I don't need.


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## Sam Cogley (Jun 8, 2008)

AA once deleted myself and my family from our confirmed seats on our next two flights - after we had already completed the first leg. It took an hours worth of phone calls and some vaguely unpleasant comments directed at the rude gate agent (and his potential for future employment) before we got our seats back.

Goofiest trip ever had to be an ATA charter to Jamaica for my cousin's wedding. I was flying with my parents and my cousin-in-law-to-be's sister. First time she had ever flown. Of course, we had an emergency landing on the trip down and another one on the way back. First one was for a mechanical failure (pilot didn't feel comfortable crossing Cuba in a 727 with only two engines operating), second one was for a sick passenger. That was an interesting descent - the tower at Atlanta Hartsfield cleared the airspace over the airport and the close approaches, and we did hairpin turns back and forth over the airport from cruising altitude until he had to bring it around for the final approach. The plane on the trip down that lost an engine was hysterical - it was the junkyard 727. None of the seats or interior panels matched colors, and there were emergency exit doors from at least four different airplanes - the secondary "exit" labels were in either Spanish, German, French or Korean, depending on the door. Not a confident way to fly.

When 757 service first started to Juliana International on St. Martin, I was on a flight that almost went into the lagoon. That's an airport where you had better drop the plane on the runway as soon as you possibly can (which led to Air France routinely destroying the beach-side fence with 747 rear landing gear), and the pilot came in way too high and way too fast. Everyone on the plane who had been in there more than once was instantly recognizable - we were all in crash positions. When the pilot finally managed to get us stopped, he couldn't turn the plane around because an engine would have taken out the road-side fence. The nose gear was so close that it took the ground crew a while to figure out how to hook the tractor on in order to pull us far enough off the fence to turn around.

I've had a few other interesting trips besides those. Most notably was the TWA pilot who somehow got clearance to come into Lambert/StL during an ice storm when they were trying to shut the airport down. He almost put the nose into the terminal wall when taxiing to the gate. The only airlines that I ever really enjoyed flying were Eastern (despite the occasional fistfight due to their bizzare practice of issuing duplicate boarding passes), British Airways and Air France.


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## santj (Apr 7, 2005)

Sam Cogley said:


> - it was the junkyard 727.


I flew on a similar 727 on NW Air. I was seated in the exit row. Before take off the stewardess came by to ask that in case of emergency would I please not throw the door out of the plane. She asked that I "gently place it across the seats", because they did not have a replacement.:yikes:


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## FastMarkA (Apr 21, 2008)

valeram said:


> Pleae read the post again so that you can understand why I am venting. It is not the $95 but the principle behind it. I was comparing my experience between our inbound flight using LH against the outbound UA. I've got no problem with economy seating. My ED experience was so great that I don't care where UA put me. Why not just give us a seat if in fact we have a confirmed booking. Why do we have to wait for our name to be called (they didn't call our name by the way, we have to see the person on the gate and passengers were already boarding) just to give us a seat. It looks like they are forcing us to take that $95 economy + that (for me) I don't need.


Gate agents are incentivized to upsell Economy Plus and, in certain cases, Business and First. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a job that requires trained computer use, making announcements, and moving a jetway is not exactly high on the compensation scales. Therefore, the more money they can earn, the better.

Sadly, as with a lot of "commission" type jobs, true customer service goes out of the window because the individual tends to focus on their own pocketbook.

What agents typically do is keep reminding passengers about the $95 upsell. In your case, Economy Minus :angel: was full, so if two folks decided to purchase Economy Plus, they would have reseated them in the upgraded cabin and assigned you the now available Economy Minus seats. Oh yeah, the gate agent also gets a little bonus on their paycheck.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's typically the procedure. Not that this should invalidate your frustration, but it's just a different perspective to consider.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

FastMarkA said:


> What agents typically do is keep reminding passengers about the $95 upsell. In your case, Economy Minus :angel: was full, so if two folks decided to purchase Economy Plus, they would have reseated them in the upgraded cabin and assigned you the now available Economy Minus seats. Oh yeah, the gate agent also gets a little bonus on their paycheck.
> 
> I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that's typically the procedure. Not that this should invalidate your frustration, but it's just a different perspective to consider.


Thanks for the explanation Mark. At least now I know how this thing operate. Is this for American carriers only? My family and I flew overseas many times without any problem like this. All of them, except this one, were non-US carriers. Maybe we were just lucky on all of our non-US carriers or just unlucky on this UA flight.


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## Sam Cogley (Jun 8, 2008)

santj said:


> I flew on a similar 727 on NW Air. I was seated in the exit row. Before take off the stewardess came by to ask that in case of emergency would I please not throw the door out of the plane. She asked that I "gently place it across the seats", because they did not have a replacement.:yikes:


I walked onto that plane and scoped out the exits as I always do. After taking stock of the horribly mismatched interior, I turned around to my father and made a comment about the plane being a flying junkheap. The engine failure sort of underscored the point in dramatic fashion.


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## northernlights (Aug 31, 2006)

We did ED couple of years back and flew LH direct from ord coming and going. Leaving MUC we were told that we did not have seat assignments. I showed them our confirmed ittinerary stating we did have seat assignments. They said we didn't call to confirm them so they released our seats. I told them I never confirmed the outbound flight and those seats were held. They shrugged their shoulders and told us to check at the gate. I was none to pleased with LH at this point. I argued with a very large burly LH gate agent when she said we may need to sit apart on the 8 hour trip back home, but they would try and get us together. They did in fact put us together but in the middle section (not my usual window seat I like). 

So summary of things, even though I really enjoyed LH service don't think your UA experience couldn't happen on LH. Lesson to be learned, call a week or two ahead of time to confirm seating!


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

My worst experience - '98 AlItalia flight Rome-Milan-LAX.
We was on row 6. Rows 1 to 5 was smoking rows. I was smoking all 9 hr non stop! :rofl:


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

northernlights said:


> ...don't think your UA experience couldn't happen on LH. Lesson to be learned, call a week or two ahead of time to confirm seating!


Unfortunately, *northenlights* has captured a lot of the LH "experience". While they are generally good, they often make decisions that negatively impact the customer experience and then seem to not care at all. And when something goes wrong, it *must* be the customer's fault. I have had them put me in a known-to be-broken seat, delete reservations without notice, and just be downright hostile if you have the audacity to complain. Writing a letter does no good whatsoever. When they bumped my son a few years ago from a confirmed seat on a MUC-JFK flight and offered him $300 or a free RT ticket, he at least had the courage to say that he would not fly them again and he took the check. (Full disclosure X2: while I have never flown coach in LH, my son was travelling on a discounted coach fare.)

I believe there are two major sources for their attitude: their near-monopoly on several routes and their approach to training the people who deal with customers. Their attitude would never survive ("You'll just have to live with our decision") if passengers had the option of, say Singapore Airlines as an alternative. Maybe "open skies" will bring about changes. (Look what the presence of VA on the US to London routes has done to change BA.)

Having said all of that, the convenience of the SFO-MUC daily nonstop almost outweighs most of the other issues. I suspect that is what the LH management are really relying on.


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## HemetKid (Feb 3, 2008)

Texas-Bimmer said:


> I agree 100%. Last January we travelled to Asia by Lufthansa (business). The going was fine, but while coming, they booked us on United from FRA.
> 
> By Lufthansa it was supposed to be a direct flight to Houston, but with UA, we were routed via Philly. Yes, it was business in United too, but there is day and night difference between Lufthansa and UA. The UA business was so crappy - lousy stewardesses, seats malfunction, TV won't work, and rude ground staff at Philly. From Philly, the UA people routed us to Houston by American, with ruder sales people. Then the slueths at American had us go thru an 'advanced security' check because they thought we were travelling without luggage from overseas (what a joke).


I don't believe that United operates internationally through Philadelphia. Could it have been US Air?:dunno:


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## Bethesda E39 (Sep 23, 2008)

santj said:


> I flew on a similar 727 on NW Air. I was seated in the exit row. Before take off the stewardess came by to ask that in case of emergency would I please not throw the door out of the plane. She asked that I "gently place it across the seats", because they did not have a replacement.:yikes:


NWA has one of the oldest fleets in the industry.....and I avoid them whenever I can!
They STILL fly DC-9-30s. Regularly. 
Those airplanes date back to the early 1960s.

Even their "new" domestic airplanes suck. 
I have NEVER flown on an Airbus (any model), that did NOT have any sort of in-flight entertainment system. I was pretty sure (until I flew NWA) that all Airbus airplanes had (at the very least) o/h video screens every 5-7 rows.

I remember flying YWG-MSP in the mid-1990s on an old 727 (-200?), with the old "Northwest Orient" Paint scheme / logos, and more bare metal showing on the front section / nose cone than actual paint.

It really pays to know your airplanes, and what equipment airlines are flying.
As a frequent flier in and out of ORD (Chicago O'Hare), I actually prefer United. You just have to know the right flights to take.
With in a 2-hr window, from ORD-IAD (Wash Dulles), you can either be on a 25-year old 737-300, or a (fairly) modern widebody 777 with in-seat entertainment....no price difference.


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## blauner (Jul 11, 2007)

Sounds like a similar experience for me. LH flight over was great, was very surprised. The free drinks were great. Flew back on UA out of Frankfurt, and first our flight was delayed by about an hour (me sitting in the plane at the gate) because someone forgot to file paperwork. Then I also missed my connecting flight to Pittsburgh from Dulles (4pm on a Friday) and UA could not get me another flight until 6 pm on Saturday. Needless to say, I skipped the flight, and we got a rental car and drove from DC to Pittsburgh. Never flying UA again. The attendents were awful, as was everything else.


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