# Anyone semi-permanently remove rear seats?



## biodan (Apr 9, 2003)

If you've removed your rear seats for easier transport of track rubber, what solution did you come up with to cover the metal rear seat platform? I can imagine fabricating a piece of thin plywood to create a flat surface. And then covering it with some inexpensive outdoor carpeting.

Some time ago, i saw an Evosport-prepped E46M3 with rollbar that had a nice rear seat platform installation...but i didn't take any pix.


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## ChuckD (Apr 4, 2003)

*I just removed mine recently*

On a semi-temporary basis. The seat bench on my car is actualy covered with a rubberized material. The rear portions of the trunk are the only places were there is bare metal. Apparently this can be different from car to car with running changes. Mine is a 9/01 build. If I keep it this way it will get uhpolstered somehow... but temporarily you could just lay a blanket or something down for protection.

I thought I heard some could fit 4 wheels in the car as is .. stock, but I have not tried it. By the time your are done there might not be much room for other essentials.

Shep01 has a great roof rack that he uses to shuffle his ENTIRE GARAGE :yikes: to and from the track. 
Maybe he can jump in and give some of the details. 
That seems like the way to go if you are going to be carting wheels, ramps, chairs, jacks, coolers, and other big items.


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*actually a great weight savings*

if you really want to shave weight you'll take out the front seat as well - in the rear, after the seats are removed - the best, lightest solution is to fabricate a system from light weight foam, divinicell or clegicell is the best and the boat guys, and likely the high end audio guys, know all about this stuff. then, with one directional layer, or 2 at the most, using kevlar, the foam will be super light and super strong - cover it with alcantara or similar material and use velcro to hold it in place - indutrial velcro will do the job and no rattles either - then - to be fancy - you can put a cargo net over the top (lay-down) section to hold stuff. this is very similar to the orginal CSL prototype in germany


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*regarding the rack*

if you are interested let me know - it is an incredible solution - i hauled 5 track wheels/tires in it and still had room for my chairs on the side - it is a rather detailed discusion so i won't waste typing unless you are interested. It does utilize the factory racks.


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## ChuckD (Apr 4, 2003)

*hey we must of posted at the same time Shep*

How much stuff do actually fit on that roof rack of yours?

Opps ..nevermind he got it.


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*where did you come from*

i barely got the enter button pushed and you respond - i thought the network world was crumbling today

as i said above (i have pictures somewhere) i easily fit 5 ssr's with tires in the rack and still got my 3 folding lounge chairs (us old guys need to be comforetable), I drove 90 from miami to sebring w/o the slightest issue. Obviously it helps if you have 500lb or greater springs on the car - otherwise you need to be mindful of the weight - that always left me the whole car to get coolers,tools, air tanks, etc


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## ChuckD (Apr 4, 2003)

*Hey Shep it says slacker next to your name*

Did you put that there or did it happen after you past 100 posts? I think you can chage it if you want... Or maybe it fits? :dunno:

The network.. yes it was in poor shape this AM... we seem to have slapped it back into shape for now. I will get messages out to all the RG-8 guys/gals tonight.


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*slacker..hummm, let's see*

better than 'the dude'? or 'el dudarino'? or 'his dudeness'? - i guess if you're into that brevity thing.....

most important to get their shipping destinations and be sure they pay brad in full for their balance - we'll have to wing it on the shipping costs but barry thought around $30-40 per wheel for most of the u.s.


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## biodan (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: I just removed mine recently*



ChuckD said:


> *...
> 
> I thought I heard some could fit 4 wheels in the car as is .. stock, but I have not tried it. By the time your are done there might not be much room for other essentials.
> *


Yes it can be done but visibility is not great- the side view mirrors become more important. By removing the rear seats, more than 1 foot clearance would be gained.


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## biodan (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: actually a great weight savings*



shep01 said:


> *if you really want to shave weight you'll take out the front seat as well - in the rear, after the seats are removed - the best, lightest solution is to fabricate a system from light weight foam, divinicell or clegicell is the best and the boat guys, and likely the high end audio guys, know all about this stuff. then, with one directional layer, or 2 at the most, using kevlar, the foam will be super light and super strong - cover it with alcantara or similar material and use velcro to hold it in place - indutrial velcro will do the job and no rattles either - then - to be fancy - you can put a cargo net over the top (lay-down) section to hold stuff. this is very similar to the orginal CSL prototype in germany *


My rationale is partly weight but mostly convenience of carrying track rubber. I'll look into this foam stuff- that sounds like a winner.

Regarding your roof-rack solution, just how high do you stack it? Is it covered with a tarp or other aerodynamic-improving device...kinda like those front mounted spoilers on big rigs 

BTW, Navid K. installed my GC suspension. Do you have his new email?


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*no, i don't*

please send me navid's e-mail - i haven't talked with him in a while - i ahve been so busy building my race car i forgot to congratulate him on the win last december - i haven't kept up with him either - tough being on the east coast - my e-mail is [email protected] - thanks

regarding the rack - what i did was put the tires in the rack standing up(very little wind resistance that way) - to keep them centered in the oversized basket i use i installed two ovc tubes (5" pvc) and wedged it front the front to the rear then secured it with ring clamps by cutting an opening in the bottom of each tube at each end and securing it toi the basket - then - 5 tires stood straight up, easy to loead as the tubes make it easy to just kind of roll them onto the roof - then i got a metal pipe (1"fencing pipe) and inserted inside a piece of pvc (11/4" pvc) and capped both ends. that assembly goes through the centers of the wheels and the caps on each end make it easy to wrap the pipe with rubber bunggy and secure it to the racks. it didn't budge! for good measure i did throw a net over the whole thing - that was overkill.( on the way home i used a roll of the plastic wrap from any u-haul store and wrapped the tires so therocks didn't get onto the paint - 1 minute job and it doesn't come off in the wind) i also bought a nice long cable lock that i could run through the middle and lock the whole thing onto the roof racks. the factory racks are keyed - to get them off would require a specific tool or some major air hammers . very safe and secure set-up with all the interior to play with for all the other stuff. my buddy has pictures somewhere - send me you e-mail and i'll try to dig them out


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## biodan (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: no, i don't*



shep01 said:


> *please send me navid's e-mail - i haven't talked with him in a while - i ahve been so busy building my race car i forgot to congratulate him on the win last december - i haven't kept up with him either - tough being on the east coast - my e-mail is [email protected] - thanks
> ... *


Ok, i sent his email address separately.

Pix of your roof-rack solution would be nice to see!


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

Check with Raffi on the BF track board. He fabricated a plywood floor for his 330 that he would use for track events. He just got a trailer and hitch...so maybe he's looking to get rid of the plywood?


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*pics of the rack*

easy to use


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## a.k.a. Jorg Muller (Apr 3, 2003)

*I'm adding weight*

I decided after Roebling last weekend that I can no longer justify all the work I do to keep planted in my cloth,manual seats, my left leg gets sore, my shoulders ache,I have to have harnesses.

I am going for ultimate safety, so 5 points, custom fabricated bolt-in roll bar (local fabricator is a magician). We'll ensure the diagonal from the bar to the floor is positioned such that I can get the
track wheels/tires shoved into and out of the back seat.

I know I'm adding the weight of the rollbar, but eventually I'll do a lighter battery and replace both front seats, and hopefully negate the added weight of the bar.

For me it's safety first, lightness second.

Hey Ralph, turn that flag upside down ;-) DAMNED nice roof rig...


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## biodan (Apr 9, 2003)

*Re: I'm adding weight*

Jorg, sounds like you're further down the slope to converting the car into a full-on racecar than myself. My primary motivation was convenience for carrying track rubber, any weight loss was a plus. re: safety first, i gather you already have a mounted fire extinguisher?

i got the 4point Schroths (yes i know the minuses w/out a rollbar/cage but this model is easy to remove and one strap 'gives' in case of a rollover). Installing the Schroths revealed how easy it would be to remove the rear seats. As long as you are gonna have a roll bar, you might as well remove the rear seats too...and then the carpet...and then... 

Keep us informed on your custom bolt-in rollbar, like pix. May your fabricator might consider making more & marketing them?



a.k.a. Jorg Muller said:


> *I decided after Roebling last weekend that I can no longer justify all the work I do to keep planted in my cloth,manual seats, my left leg gets sore, my shoulders ache,I have to have harnesses.
> 
> I am going for ultimate safety, so 5 points, custom fabricated bolt-in roll bar (local fabricator is a magician). We'll ensure the diagonal from the bar to the floor is positioned such that I can get the
> track wheels/tires shoved into and out of the back seat.
> ...


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*kirk cages*

usually the best prefabs - bolt-ins they already have one for the E46M3

regarding harness' - i used the dot approved shroth 3-pt - i liked the attatchment advantage at the upper rear seat belt oe position - plus the ease of hooking it up for use. the design works very well - i like it better than having the rear belts attatched to a lower down position (ie: from the oe seat belts)

it is designed to give in a rollover and extensive testing must be done to get it dot approved - given it not being the ideal solution it worked well for me over the years - still far better imo to the stock belt - and i did have a chance to test it out in a frontal impact - it worked great!


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## a.k.a. Jorg Muller (Apr 3, 2003)

*Already able to get the tires in...*

Biodan,
I can lay two mounted tires (SSR Competition wheel,18x9.5 with 265/35/18 Kumho Ecsta MX) in bags on their sides behind the driver's seat. The other two go behind the passenger seat, in bags, standing up. That leaves me a bit of room on top of the ones behind the driver to lay a few TireRack cardboard discs to protect my stock wheels when I've removed and stacked them at the track. I throw an ortho-pillow on top of them (hate motel pillows,I have a neck that goes out of line easily). Still have room on the floor for a small cooler on one side and my laptop on the other, helmet bag goes between the front seats, yada yada yada. The trunk fits most everything else. I've talked ad infinitum to various instructors and racers about the various merits of the 4 point Schroth vs a true 5-point. I still will drive the car the same way as I do now, I don't want to hurt it or me, this car is so capable that I can have a blast at 7 or 8/10s, but I'm tired of getting beaten to death and I'm sure that a lot of my upper back pain and tightness comes from working so hard to stay in the seat, despite having cloth inserts. I guess at some level I knew all along I'd want 5-point harnesses, and I'd rather be safe than sorry. I know the bar will add weight, but my first steps will be at least a driver's seat (either Sparco America or Cobra Suzuka GT) and a lighter battery, and I probably will hank out the back seat bottom cushion, I haven't done it yet, but I'm told it's easy, but it wouldn't be permanent, we'll see how the bar design leaves my ability to put wheels in the back seat. I do it all from one side anyway right now, so I should be ok. It's a slippery slope, and no, I don't have a mounted fire extinguisher, but that's in the future...
Cheers,
David


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