# Heated Seats



## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

Ok guys, I have ordered my new 330i ZHP almost fully loaded, ie ZHP, Premium, Xenons, Nav, folding rear seats. I live in Texas so I figured it wasn't worth getting the Cold weather Package. Basically it would add about 500 dollars to get the heated seats (and headlight washers) since I'm already getting folding rear seats. Am I being stupid for not getting the heated seats? I don't really need them, but it might be nice for our 1-2 month winter. I'm thinking more likely in terms of resale too? I plan to keep the car at least 5 years though. What do you all think? :dunno:


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

icemanjs4 said:


> Ok guys, I have ordered my new 330i ZHP almost fully loaded, ie ZHP, Premium, Xenons, Nav, folding rear seats. I live in Texas so I figured it wasn't worth getting the Cold weather Package. Basically it would add about 500 dollars to get the heated seats (and headlight washers) since I'm already getting folding rear seats. Am I being stupid for not getting the heated seats? I don't really need them, but it might be nice for our 1-2 month winter. I'm thinking more likely in terms of resale too? I plan to keep the car at least 5 years though. What do you all think? :dunno:


A fully loaded car tips the price scale at 47 or 48k. That 500$ is insignificant, so I say you add it to complete the package.


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

You're definitely right - the options you get on a car nearly always keep the bulk of their value over time, i.e. the extra $500 you spend bumping up to the full CW package will likely get you $350+ when you go to sell or trade the car in 5 years.

Personally, I like heated seats (I live in FL). There's only a couple months to use them, but with leather you'll definitely want them, especially if you're not garaging the car.

I agree with allaboutme's stance, too - if you're going the "every option" ZHP route you might as well just load it up. And I don't know what part of Texas you live in but I have a good friend there and from the way he describes some of the sandstorms the headlight washers might be a nice safety addition at night.


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## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

Funny, I just went through the opposite route on my new 330i. I definitely wanted heated seats but was hesitating on the extra $500 for the CWP for the folding seats. I wanted to be sure to get the rear seat armrest, and according to the brochure, they made it sound like it didn't come standard without the folding seats. On the 2004's, the armrest was standard on 330i with leather, but my salesperson couldn't confirm 100% so I went with the full CWP. Folding seats might come in handy anyway, although there is a compromise with body stiffness :yikes: .

Oh and yes, heated seats are very nice in chilly weather.


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## Expressx (Dec 21, 2004)

icemanjs4 said:


> Ok guys, I have ordered my new 330i ZHP almost fully loaded, ie ZHP, Premium, Xenons, Nav, folding rear seats. I live in Texas so I figured it wasn't worth getting the Cold weather Package. Basically it would add about 500 dollars to get the heated seats (and headlight washers) since I'm already getting folding rear seats. Am I being stupid for not getting the heated seats? I don't really need them, but it might be nice for our 1-2 month winter. I'm thinking more likely in terms of resale too? I plan to keep the car at least 5 years though. What do you all think? :dunno:


I also live in Texas and heated seats are great in my Lexus during the few cold months (BTW its currently snowing in Houston  ) Ordered them on my X5 as well.


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## Jim H (Feb 9, 2004)

Expressx said:


> I also live in Texas and heated seats are great in my Lexus during the few cold months (BTW its currently snowing in Houston  ) Ordered them on my X5 as well.


I've even used heated seats just on a cool night in spring or fall. I'm a musician, and sometimes after a long day of playing, moving equipment, etc., the warmth is nice on my back...


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## icky (Sep 15, 2004)

i love my heated seats! 
then again, i live in alaska.. and not texas...so i use them 15 months out of the year
i would say the only reason you would need to get them would be to complete the package, i dont really forsee it being worth the extra $500 otherwise.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

I have to admit I wasnt sure either, but I LOVE my heated seats also :thumbup: 

Actually feels good on your lower back in the morning in almost a relaxing theraputic way.


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## Patrick330i (Sep 30, 2002)

icemanjs4 said:


> Ok guys, I have ordered my new 330i ZHP almost fully loaded, ie ZHP, Premium, Xenons, Nav, folding rear seats. I live in Texas so I figured it wasn't worth getting the Cold weather Package. Basically it would add about 500 dollars to get the heated seats (and headlight washers) since I'm already getting folding rear seats. Am I being stupid for not getting the heated seats? I don't really need them, but it might be nice for our 1-2 month winter. I'm thinking more likely in terms of resale too? I plan to keep the car at least 5 years though. What do you all think? :dunno:


So, it is snowing out there tonight, would you want to have them in this weather? I have them. The way I see it, it gets cold enough at night, at least, that if you want to warm your fanny, or in my case my wife's, you just get them. If you are the only passenger and don't care, I wouldn't get them either. You are the best judge. $500 shouldn't break the bank on the ride you have built.


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## shizat63 (Feb 14, 2002)

Heated seats well worth $500 in NJ :thumbup: 

Especially in the morning, getting in the car. Or late at night, after the car has been sitting outside for a while. The HVAC takes about 5 min to warm up with the car, but the seats take about 45 seconds to kick in and then it's OOOOHHH.......


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## allaboutme (Dec 22, 2003)

icky said:


> so i use them 15 months out of the year


all 15 months, ey?


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

*heated seats*

My car had exactly all the options that I wanted and was the right color... and it also had heated seats. I live in L.A. and thought I woudn't need heated seats. Luckily, BMW was smarter than I am and put them on knowing that in a convertible.... they come in handy in any city!

I definitely did NOT want the complete cold weather package--absolutely no use for headlight washers (my car is always clean and I don't even drive in the rain!) and didn't like the extra cut-outs (too busy) under the headlights (for the same reason I didn't want parking assist because it ruins the look of the back bumper IMHO).

But I absolutely LOVE the heated seats. On cool nights the heated seats on the lowest postion (and a light jacket) is perfectly comfortable; and I never even need the heater!

Anyway, that's just my propective as a cabrio owner. A definite must if you have a ragtop.

--J.


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

Leather is a very effective cheek chiller in cool/cold weather. I went with Alcantara interior, and don't miss the heaters, but I'm sure glad my wife's car (with leather) has bunz warmers.


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

Hey, thank you everybody for you response. It sounds like the general concensus is that it's worth it - especially with all of the other options. Does the CWP really change the way the headlights look? Does anyone have any good pictures so I could try to do a side by side? BTW, MSRP was a little over 46, but with Euro Delivery and lots of negotiating, I got it down to just over 41K. 

Who knows - maybe i will appreciate the heated seats after all.


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## shizat63 (Feb 14, 2002)

icemanjs4 said:


> Hey, thank you everybody for you response. It sounds like the general concensus is that it's worth it - especially with all of the other options. Does the CWP really change the way the headlights look? Does anyone have any good pictures so I could try to do a side by side? BTW, MSRP was a little over 46, but with Euro Delivery and lots of negotiating, I got it down to just over 41K.
> 
> Who knows - maybe i will appreciate the heated seats after all.


They aren't too obtrusive


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Rowag said:


> You're definitely right - the options you get on a car nearly always keep the bulk of their value over time, i.e. the extra $500 you spend bumping up to the full CW package will likely get you $350+ when you go to sell or trade the car in 5 years.


What a totally false statement. In fact, the total opposite is true- on a percentage basis, the base model with no or few options holds the most value, and the "totally loaded" cars hold the least. Stuff like heated seats, xenon lights, folding rear seat, park distance control and premium sound add little resale value to these cars. For the money you spend to buy them, you get very little back. If you want all these options, buy them. But if you're just buying them to say you have them and that they'll increase your resale, you'd be better to pass on them.

Think I'm totally wrong? Well, I see what these cars are worth every day. The only options that are actually worth their initial cost in terms of future resale on these cars are things like AWD (an Audi without Quattro is worth about $2000-2500 less for wholesale, when the initial cost of the option is only $1800), a moonroof (try getting a trade value on your BMW without a moonroof-- it's probably worth about $1500 less because it doesn't have an option that originally cost $1050), and in some cases, and auto tranny.


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## Arthur (Sep 11, 2004)

*seats*

Living in Texas means you get 3 months of 70 degrees, or 20 degrees. I LOVE my heated seats for the latter...


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

SARAFIL said:


> What a totally false statement. In fact, the total opposite is true- on a percentage basis, the base model with no or few options holds the most value, and the "totally loaded" cars hold the least. Stuff like heated seats, xenon lights, folding rear seat, park distance control and premium sound add little resale value to these cars. For the money you spend to buy them, you get very little back. If you want all these options, buy them. But if you're just buying them to say you have them and that they'll increase your resale, you'd be better to pass on them.
> 
> Think I'm totally wrong? Well, I see what these cars are worth every day. The only options that are actually worth their initial cost in terms of future resale on these cars are things like AWD (an Audi without Quattro is worth about $2000-2500 less for wholesale, when the initial cost of the option is only $1800), a moonroof (try getting a trade value on your BMW without a moonroof-- it's probably worth about $1500 less because it doesn't have an option that originally cost $1050), and in some cases, and auto tranny.


You forgot leather.  I wonder how bigger engines come into play.


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## russ330 (Dec 22, 2001)

Like many of the others have stated, I couldn't have a "semi-luxury" car without heated seats any longer. My E36 has them, and when ordering my E46 I contemplated not getting heated seats, then the temperature started dropping and I found myself using the heated seats every morning, needless to say my mind was made up. 

As an added bonus, I also use them when my back starts to get sore after driving for extended distances. Toasty.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

russ325 said:


> As an added bonus, I also use them when my back starts to get sore after driving for extended distances. Toasty.


Yeah, me too. I really want to get lumbar retrofitted, though.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

shizat63 said:


> What about
> - alcantara/cloth
> - nav
> - 6 speed


Satellite navigation, in the UK at least, is one of those few options that actually has a retained value approximating to the overall retained value of the car (so, ~50% after three years). Everything else is worthless, although plenty of people naturally try to talk up the value of their extensive, and hopelessly expensive, options on UK boards .

Sport-package cars require only a relatively modest (£800) upcharge for leather (since the Alcantara stuff is regarded as an upgrade over regular cloth). As such, leather on Sport-equipped cars probably holds its value very well.

I don't know about 6-speed, since the 6-speed gearbox is standard equipment (on some models anyway). Autos tend to hold their value reasonably well also - regardless of 
model.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

icemanjs4 said:


> I think I need to clarify the original question a bit now after reading all the responses. I'm not worried about the resale value of the heated seats (getting back $500 vs only say $150) is pretty much meaningless. I'm thinking more about ease of selling the whole package. Will people be more reluctant to buy a luxury performance car that doesn't have heated seats?
> 
> I'm starting to think the heated seats might be nice just to sooth the back in the morning too. Never would have thought about it :thumbup:


Regardless about what I said above about resale, I wouldn't buy a car without heated seats. And, in RI, it is just about impossible to sell a car without heated seats.

So, to answer your question, yes, you should get them. I'd use them enough during my ownership period that I wouldn't care if I got nothing back for them at time of resale.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> Satellite navigation, in the UK at least, is one of those few options that actually has a retained value approximating to the overall retained value of the car (so, ~50% after three years). Everything else is worthless, although plenty of people naturally try to talk up the value of their extensive, and hopelessly expensive, options on UK boards .
> 
> Sport-package cars require only a relatively modest (£800) upcharge for leather (since the Alcantara stuff is regarded as an upgrade over regular cloth). As such, leather on Sport-equipped cars probably holds its value very well.
> 
> ...


Our market is a little bit unique from the rest of the world, I guess.

Your words about Navigation are true-- their retention of value is similar to the overall retention of value of the vehicle. If your car is worth 60% of its original cost in 3 years, the Navigation probably held about 60% of its value as well.

However, we have some "oddball" options that either hold all (or more) of their initial value, or hold relatively no value. On a 3-series, things like folding rear seat, park distance control, HK sound, and even xenon headlights add virtually nothing to the wholesale value of the car. Don't get this confused with _desirability_-- that loaded car will likely be much more desirable once it is on the lot, but those options add little or no resale value over a car without them. On the other hand, stuff like the Premium (leather, wood trim, moonroof, power seats) and Sport Packages (sport seats, big wheels and tires) add a pretty good amount to the resale value-- they hold a resale value that is close to the resale percentage of the overall car as well. However, some seperate options are seen as essential, and can add more then their initial cost to the resale value (or, seen the other way, not having them hurts you more than the initial cost of buying them would have been). These are options like a moonroof (you'll typically lose significantly more than the initial cost of the option for not having one), AWD (not such a big deal on BMWs- more common on cars that are mostly sold as the AWD model, where no one wants the non-AWD model-- think Audi or most SUVs), and an auto tranny (not that big a hit on a 3-series or Z-series, but significant on a 5 or X-series).


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## stewthebassman (Nov 10, 2004)

My wife married me for my car's heated seats. Optional? I say not!


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

icemanjs4 said:


> I think I need to clarify the original question a bit now after reading all the responses. I'm not worried about the resale value of the heated seats (getting back $500 vs only say $150) is pretty much meaningless. I'm thinking more about ease of selling the whole package. Will people be more reluctant to buy a luxury performance car that doesn't have heated seat?


Just for perspective,
A friend tried to sell his 2002 330i in Georgia. Had premium, sport, HK sound, but no heated seats. He couldn't believe it, but the lack of heated seats was a deal-breaker on several occasions. Eventually he sold it, but for a lower price.


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

icemanjs4 said:


> Ok guys, I have ordered my new 330i ZHP almost fully loaded, ie ZHP, Premium, Xenons, Nav, folding rear seats. I live in Texas so I figured it wasn't worth getting the Cold weather Package. Basically it would add about 500 dollars to get the heated seats (and headlight washers) since I'm already getting folding rear seats. Am I being stupid for not getting the heated seats? I don't really need them, but it might be nice for our 1-2 month winter. I'm thinking more likely in terms of resale too? I plan to keep the car at least 5 years though. What do you all think? :dunno:


I wouldn't pay the extra for heated seats for a 1-2 month winter. I actually like them more than I thought I would (I have a CPO which happened to come with them), but we have 5 months of chilly mornings. I would just grin and bear it.


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## reevesna (Dec 23, 2004)

I live in upstate NY and the seats are well worth it, especially when it was -8 the other day...but i bought used so they were no extra...although as someone else noted on top of a nearly loaded $48G car what is another $500bones...honestly...and didn't you guys just get 6-12" of the white stuff...first time in 40yrs or something like that?


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## SonTon2003 (Nov 22, 2004)

the winter package is worth it.


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

SonTon2003 said:


> the winter package is worth it.


No, I do not like the ZCW. I never use the headlight wahsers (I keep my car clean most of the time) and it's just more things to break down the road. And the ski bag? Like I am going to ski/snowboard in my car with summer tires!

I didn't have a chouce since I got the CPO car and the precious owner optioned it this way. If it was up to me, I'd just get heated seats instead of ZCW.

BTW, I love head seats. Never thought I'd need them but they are great for cold days! :thumbup:


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## Jim Seattle (Dec 20, 2001)

A car without heated seats is a deal breaker for me. Odd to some, important to me.


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## bbkat (Oct 27, 2002)

JonathanIT said:


> My car had exactly all the options that I wanted and was the right color... and it also had heated seats. I live in L.A. and thought I woudn't need heated seats. Luckily, BMW was smarter than I am and put them on knowing that in a convertible.... they come in handy in any city!
> 
> I definitely did NOT want the complete cold weather package--absolutely no use for headlight washers (my car is always clean and I don't even drive in the rain!) and didn't like the extra cut-outs (too busy) under the headlights (for the same reason I didn't want parking assist because it ruins the look of the back bumper IMHO).
> 
> ...


Definitely a must in a cab. It's the only way to go top down in sub-60 weather


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## KP (Apr 16, 2002)

I love my heated seats. NC winter can get pretty chilly at times, so it always comes in handy during this time of the year. Plus the SO raves about it (especially during that time of the month  ). If it's a coupe, cwp is fine, but for a sedan, I'd rather have the heated seats as a standalone option because I wouldn't want foldback rear seats. Another drawback of cwp is the headlight washers can get annoying when working on the car, and when you yank them out, it will spill all the washer fluid (always a good idea to siphon it out before you do).


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## Tigger (Dec 30, 2004)

*Congratulations*



icemanjs4 said:


> Hey, thank you everybody for you response. It sounds like the general concensus is that it's worth it - especially with all of the other options. Does the CWP really change the way the headlights look? Does anyone have any good pictures so I could try to do a side by side? BTW, MSRP was a little over 46, but with Euro Delivery and lots of negotiating, I got it down to just over 41K.
> 
> Who knows - maybe i will appreciate the heated seats after all.


Did you order very recently? Care to share any advice as to how/when/where you got your deal? I won't be able to pursue Euro delivery. I'm in Austin and looking right now. Thanks in advance for any leads. (By the way, I've had heated seats in my car here in Austin and wouldn't want to go without.)


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## lil' poppa (Oct 27, 2004)

I always switch on the passenger side seat heater when I'm driving home with take-out. Don't know how I survived in the Midwest without heated seats before 2000.


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## shizat63 (Feb 14, 2002)

lil' poppa said:


> I always switch on the passenger side seat heater when I'm driving home with take-out. Don't know how I survived in the Midwest without heated seats before 2000.


Do the heated seats work even if there's no one sitting in them :dunno:


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## lil' poppa (Oct 27, 2004)

shizat63 said:


> Do the heated seats work even if there's no one sitting in them :dunno:


Feels like the seat is generating heat before I set the food down on it (the food being bagged or fully contained of course), however, I could be imagining things. Maybe I do that more for my peace of mind when its ~ 5 to 10 degrees out, as it was last week.


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

Tigger said:


> Did you order very recently? Care to share any advice as to how/when/where you got your deal? I won't be able to pursue Euro delivery. I'm in Austin and looking right now. Thanks in advance for any leads. (By the way, I've had heated seats in my car here in Austin and wouldn't want to go without.)


First of all, I want to thank everybody for their GREAT responses. I decided to spring the extra 500 dollars for the Cold Weather package. 5 years from now I'll never miss the 500, but i might miss the seats.

Tigger, here's how I got the deal I did. I started by emailing a few dealers in Dallas/Houston. Then I'd follow up the emails with a call, and talk to the internet managers and tell them what I was looking for. Then I started mild negotiations to get into a decent price range. Then I did a second round with other dealers from Houston. Finally I called up San Antonio's BMW (I have to say - he was incredibly nice and offered me a great price with very little haggling at all! Some of the dallas dealers were harder to work with) - I can give you his info if you would like. Anyway, once I got the best price from about 8 different dealers I went into Austin. I had gone into the Austin dealer, maybe 8 different times already, looking, test driving, re-testdriving, telling them about the other cars I was thinking about, etc. By the time I came in to buy - the dealer knew I was serious.

Finally we sat down, he asked me how much I wanted to pay. I told him $750 over invoice, plus free floormats. He went back to talk - came back half an hour later and said he could do it. I even got him to throw in both regular floormats and teh rubber all-weather ones for free.

Sorry to write a book -hope that helps.


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## heysmitty (Jan 2, 2005)

*Maybe just one seat heater*

Yeh, seat heaters are great. I would like to see a little finer control than three positions give and would like them to stay on all the time. Well, maybe not when the car isn't being used but you get the picture. I had an Alfa Romeo which only heated the drivers seat. Did that mif the wife!


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## goodchip (Oct 12, 2004)

You folks crack me up. Winter in Texas?? North Carolina? 
While I agree that heated seats are nice even in a cool Alberta summer evening (say 45 F) the real payoff is in the bone chilling as* numbing middle of winter mornings. Today for exampl, the morning temp was -26C, arounf -15F. 
You literally bounce off the seats when you get in. 
BMW seats are awesome. Your butt is warm inside of 2 minutes. My old Maxima took st least 5 minutes to feel anything at all.


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## Eduardo (Jul 13, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> What a totally false statement. In fact, the total opposite is true- on a percentage basis, the base model with no or few options holds the most value, and the "totally loaded" cars hold the least. Stuff like heated seats, xenon lights, folding rear seat, park distance control and premium sound add little resale value to these cars. For the money you spend to buy them, you get very little back. If you want all these options, buy them. But if you're just buying them to say you have them and that they'll increase your resale, you'd be better to pass on them.
> 
> Think I'm totally wrong? Well, I see what these cars are worth every day. The only options that are actually worth their initial cost in terms of future resale on these cars are things like AWD (an Audi without Quattro is worth about $2000-2500 less for wholesale, when the initial cost of the option is only $1800), a moonroof (try getting a trade value on your BMW without a moonroof-- it's probably worth about $1500 less because it doesn't have an option that originally cost $1050), and in some cases, and auto tranny.


Sarafil rocks!!! :thumbup:


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## Eduardo (Jul 13, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> ...but my guess is that Alcantara will be sought after by the groupies that will be looking for nice ZHPs in a few years, while the average buyer is going to prefer leather.


Kewl! Alcantara groupies!!! They must be unbelievably hot signorinas. :angel:


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