# Why isn't the G35 compared with the 5 series?



## jastevenson (Dec 20, 2001)

The price is different, but the two cars are more directly comparable to each other than the 3 / G35. The 5er and G are more similar in:
Wheelbase
Interior room
Exterior size
HP / Torque
(soon) Availability ofa 6 speed manual

I suspect the car mags are reluctant to do so b/c they know the G would trounce the 5er. Sure, the 5 has a good chassis, but it's an old design with old styling, poor packaging, poor interior (I think the 5er interior is incredibly dated, much as the E36 3er interior was), the world's worst base stereo, a weaker engine, and fewer safety features than the G. And the G handles better to boot (if the 3 outhandles the 5, so does the G35).


Refusing to compare the two is like not comparing a Boxster to an S2000 b/c the S2k is cheaper.


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

jastevenson said:


> *Refusing to compare the two is like not comparing a Boxster to an S2000 b/c the S2k is cheaper. *


Each car is clearly targeted at a certain market segment. The pricing of the G35 is aimed squarely at the BMW 3-series, Audi A4, and the Lexus IS300. There are other cars in a similar position -- slightly larger than a 3-series, but based on their target market, are kept in that same category.

Also, having owned a E39 and a E46, I don't think the E39 market is in any way looking for a G35. The G35 lacks the upscale feel of the E39. The G35 outperforms the BMW 3 liter engine (330/530), but it's no competition in the power arena for the 540i.

Infiniti will have its hands full competing with the 3-series, which it does well, but without trouncing the E46. Compare a 540i and a G35 and someone is going to call foul.

--gary


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

Same deal with the Cadillac CTS and Lincoln LS. Both cars are in E39 size range, but priced right against the E46. The majority of the world shops based on price, so you have to use that as the yardstick.

BTW, contrary to popular belief, the E46's interior is larger than the E39 in every dimension other than width, where the 5er has a slight advantage. Efficiency is quite an art. :thumb:


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

jastevenson said:


> *
> 
> I suspect the car mags are reluctant to do so b/c they know the G would trounce the 5er. Sure, the 5 has a good chassis, but it's an old design with old styling, poor packaging, poor interior (I think the 5er interior is incredibly dated, much as the E36 3er interior was), the world's worst base stereo, a weaker engine, and fewer safety features than the G. And the G handles better to boot (if the 3 outhandles the 5, so does the G35).
> 
> *


I suspect you haven't driven an E39. My dad just traded-in his 1999 E39 540i-6 for a 2002 E39 540i-6. It has even more horsepower (290 vs. 282) and torque (324 vs. 310) than his last car could pull from the 4.4 liter V8.

The chassis is rock-solid, and the car car is amazingly quiet on the freeway. Safety-wise, it is an armored car (if you had to sit in the seat during a crash test - you'd really rather sit in the G35?). It is rocket-fast, with gobs of torque. I'd argue it is the best car in the world right now if you had to pick one car to do everything!

The G35 is light, cheap feeling, and the chassis isn't nearly as safe. Drive both, and you will understand why I'd take an E39 525i over the G35 (as would most on this Board).


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Besides, Infiniti has another car coming in the 5er/EClass/LexusGS fight: The M45. Its a JDM Nissan Cedric/Gloria (The former Chevy Caprice of Japan; it was very popular with taxi fleets till Nissan made a specialized taxi model) with a Q45 V8 stuffed underhood, instead of the twinturbo V6 it gets in Japan.

Too bad the recent modelchange made it SO ugly. The previous model was a fantastic looking car.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

Kaz said:


> *Besides, Infiniti has another car coming in the 5er/EClass/LexusGS fight: The M45. Its a JDM Nissan Cedric/Gloria (The former Chevy Caprice of Japan; it was very popular with taxi fleets till Nissan made a specialized taxi model) with a Q45 V8 stuffed underhood, instead of the twinturbo V6 it gets in Japan.
> 
> Too bad the recent modelchange made it SO ugly. The previous model was a fantastic looking car. *


That car is so promising on paper, but one of the blandest machines I have ever seen in reality. I can't believe Nissan decided to release such a conservative model after the dramaticly styled Q45 G35 G35 Coupe rollout. I can't see the car selling very well at all. I'm forcasting another J30 for the history books. :thumbdwn:


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## Dean325Ci (Jan 11, 2002)

> The G35 is light, cheap feeling, and the chassis isn't nearly as safe. Drive both, and you will understand why I'd take an E39 525i over the G35 (as would most on this Board).


Speak for yourself, buddy! I think the 2.5 I-6 is not powerful enough. Yes it can pull my 325Ci 0-60 in 6.9 seconds, but with three people in the car its a different story. The 525 is even worse because its a heavier car. The G35 is light.....I hope so and not weighing over 3500 pounds with only 184 horses like the 525 and its a solid car...I drove it. Cheap feeling....did you drive the car? I drove it and it has great road feel, but I guess Car and Driver, Motorweek, Forbes, etc really don't know what they're talking about....even when they praised the E46. I think it suffers from what most Japanese auto suffer from...lack of a good wheel and tire package. Drive both....I own a 325Ci and drove the G35 Sedan...with 260 HP it makes highway driving very pleasurable even with a auto. Remember the VQ series engine is one of the best in the world along with BMW's I-6. Don't get me wrong, the 525 shares some the great handling that synonomous with the 3 series, but it lacks in the power department.


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## jastevenson (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Emission*

I would prolly take a 540-6 over a G35. OTOH, for the same price, I could get 2 base G35s!

But a 525 over a G35? Please. Safetywise, what are you basing your opinion on? The G35 crash tests scores are impeccable (done by the Japanese equivalent of the NHTSA, which tests side, full frontal, and offset frontal--more comprehensive than the NHTSA).

The G has a newer chassis, and 5 years is a long time in safety years. Moreover, the G has active headrests, which the 5er lacks, as well as curtain airbags for front _and_ rear. Curtains are better than sausage bags.

The G35 is light, and that's a good thing. I like the way they used aluminum to keep the weight down. And it's not cheap feeling.

The 5er is a nice car, but it's outdated. The new 5er OTOH, assuming it has decent styling, will prolly be better than the G. But saying that the current 5er is better is a joke.



> I suspect you haven't driven an E39. My dad just traded-in his 1999 E39 540i-6 for a 2002 E39 540i-6. It has even more horsepower (290 vs. 282) and torque (324 vs. 310) than his last car could pull from the 4.4 liter V8.
> 
> The chassis is rock-solid, and the car car is amazingly quiet on the freeway. Safety-wise, it is an armored car (if you had to sit in the seat during a crash test - you'd really rather sit in the G35?). It is rocket-fast, with gobs of torque. I'd argue it is the best car in the world right now if you had to pick one car to do everything!
> 
> The G35 is light, cheap feeling, and the chassis isn't nearly as safe. Drive both, and you will understand why I'd take an E39 525i over the G35 (as would most on this Board).


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

Horsepower isn't everything - useable horsepower is.

German horses always tend to feel stronger than Japanese, whether you are comparing the Acura Type-S or the Lexus GS430, the Japanese with more horses lose the drag races. Sure, the G35 has 260 (or so), but I am confident a 330i feels faster with only 225 (I am also confident the 525i feels slower than both).

Yes, the 525i is underpowered. I would still take it over a G35 (and I have owned TWO Infiniti's so my decision is not from a BMW-bias). The E39 is a better chassis. Period. We will have to wait for insurance reports to check real-world injury claims.

Several years from now, the E39 5-series will be remembered as a car ahead of it's time - and the best car of it's time (like the 1986 Mercedes 300E is regarded). The G35, J30, I30, ES300, IS300, GS400, GS430, blah, blah, blah.... will all be regarded as used Japanese cars.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Why isn't the G35 compared with the 5 series?*



Emission said:


> *
> 
> I suspect you haven't driven an E39. My dad just traded-in his 1999 E39 540i-6 for a 2002 E39 540i-6. It has even more horsepower (290 vs. 282) and torque (324 vs. 310) than his last car could pull from the 4.4 liter V8.
> 
> ...


Not the 540, but the M5 

It is rocket fast. I did a top end run like you did in the 540 with an M5. No Governor = speedo pegged, 187 mph, 6500 in 6th :bigpimp:


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## hts (Dec 19, 2001)

Emission said:


> *Horsepower isn't everything - useable horsepower is.
> 
> German horses always tend to feel stronger than Japanese, whether you are comparing the Acura Type-S or the Lexus GS430, the Japanese with more horses lose the drag races. Sure, the G35 has 260 (or so), but I am confident a 330i feels faster with only 225 (I am also confident the 525i feels slower than both).
> *


I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you haven't driven a G35 yet.

Every other consideration aside (lousy interior, crappy resale, etc.), a slushbox G35 tester with 20 some odd miles felt considerably faster and stopped much better than my 330 5-speed (with 7,0xx miles on it).


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

From all that I have read in magazines, I will indeed test drive a G35 to see what all of the hype is about. The car looks incredible to this beholder, and it's putting down phenominal numbers.

I do however hate slushies with a passion, and I feel that I will never get a true feel for the car unless there is the correct amount of pedals. Come fall when the 6-speed is here, I will go and drive the G35 and perhaps the coupe if they have one by then.

I reserve judgement until I get to take some writing of the sidewalls, dust from the brake pads, and lives from the salesman.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

hts said:


> *
> 
> I would be willing to bet dollars to donuts that you haven't driven a G35 yet.
> 
> *


Actually, I've drive two different G35's. The first was a dealer demo with about 1000 miles on it. The other was brand-new (12 miles). Neither felt faster than my 330i 5-speed.

Production tolerances are all over the map. Maybe your 330i is a 'slow' one?


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## John Demetre (Mar 14, 2002)

The G35 is having a heck of a time selling. Infiniti reports only 5,650 sold for the first 2 months. The interior has been a huge bomb. It is universally viewed as cheap and ugly. Compare it with the 5? How about comparing it with the Nissan Altima. They look very similar because they are.


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## Dean325Ci (Jan 11, 2002)

John Demetre said:


> *The G35 is having a heck of a time selling. Infiniti reports only 5,650 sold for the first 2 months. The interior has been a huge bomb. It is universally viewed as cheap and ugly. Compare it with the 5? How about comparing it with the Nissan Altima. They look very similar because they are. *


Infinity's first year goal for the G35 Sedan is 30,000. Looks like they're meeting that goal. 5,660 sold for a car that's two months old is not too bad. That's almost 45% of all Infinity's sold in April. How can you say they are not selling? I think alot folks are awaiting the six speed or the Coupe.

G35 Sales


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## John Demetre (Mar 14, 2002)

When any new car comes out it sells its greatest numbers right off the bat. This is the time waiting lists receive their cars and those holding off a purchase buy. Infiniti put alot into advertising and hyping the G35. 30,000 in one year?, I think the 325i by itself sells 5 or 6 thousand in a month. The G35's troubles selling have been widely talked about in the automotive world. Our dealership, Summit BMW, which I have a stake in is affiliated with Baker Infiniti. The troubles the G35 is having is topic #1 over there.


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## Dean325Ci (Jan 11, 2002)

John you have to remember Infinity is a relatively new car company that just exists in the US. BMW sells roughly 1200 330is a month in the US...the G35 clearly outsells the 330i. They sell only about 4000 325is a month in the US. BTW this is based on April sales figures. The G35 may not be selling in your area, but take a visit the the forum read customers testimony on how the dealer can't keep enough of them on the lot in some parts of the country.

G35 link


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

John Demetre said:


> *Compare it with the 5? How about comparing it with the Nissan Altima. They look very similar because they are. *




Exactly how are the Altima and G35 similiar? Aside from engines, there isn't one connection. It's like comparing a Mini to an E46. Same basic company, COMPLETELY different car.


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## John Demetre (Mar 14, 2002)

How are they similar??? Take a look at both side by side and tell me they are not similar. They look very much alike. True, the G35 sells alot more than the 330i, but the 330i is about $10,000 more. It's just not in my area where their not selling, it is across the country. Infiniti had a goal to sell 8,000 the first 2 months when demand was going to be highest. They ended up a little over 5,600. Not pretty numbers. Again the troubles the car is having is well known in the auto community. It's got to be the interior!


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

A Civic and an E46 are very similiar from many angles also. What's your point?


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

rumratt said:


> http://www.pictures-of-cars.com/PCGB2003/Porsche-911-964.htm


Ah, thanks. So wouldn't it be a 911, not a 964? 964, according to that site, started in '89.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

swchang said:


> Ah, thanks. So wouldn't it be a 911, not a 964? 964, according to that site, started in '89.


Yes, it is a 911.

Technically, however, it is a 930. Because it is a turbo, many of the parts are very different from a normal 911, so Porsche decided to give it another designation. The VIN number has a "930" in place of the "911" - so it's a 930 officially.

The 964 (oil-cooled) is a newer chassis, followed by the 993 in 1995 (oil-cooled) and 996 in 1999 (water-cooled). All are still known as "911's" to the public.


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## gr8330 (Mar 31, 2002)

rumratt said:


> http://www.pictures-of-cars.com/PCGB2003/Porsche-911-964.htm


Rumrat :thumbup: thanks for defining my mistake...but I still want one. Actually I do want a 964 93 or 94 model year. The 95 on up is nice but to me I prefer the 93 or 94.


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## gr8330 (Mar 31, 2002)

2003 BMW X5 3.0 (Steptronic)
2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan (6-Speed)
1986 Porsche 911 Turbo (4-speed)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I really need to pay more attention before I post


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

gr8330 said:


> Rumrat :thumbup: thanks for defining my mistake...but I still want one. Actually I do want a 964 93 or 94 model year. The 95 on up is nice but to me I prefer the 93 or 94.


I wouldn't call it a mistake. Seasoned Porsche nuts can't get it right - much like the difference between the E30, E36, E46, etc... It is all very confusing.

A '93 964 C2 Cabriolet was the first Porsche I ever drove. I fell in love that day.

Good news for you. The chassis you like, the 964, is the least desired "911" design by Porsche enthusiasts. For some reason, the 964 C2 and 964 C4 tend to have mechanical issues and are much harder to work on than the 911 before them or 993 that followed them. They are very nice mid-5 second cars, just not that popular.

You can find a very nice example of a '93 or '94 964 for about $25,000.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Nat Brown said:


> You'll probably laugh at me, but I'm selling my 330i for the new Dodge Magnum. I've had the 540i and I was thinking about getting a newer one (2002) later this year for the great power and luxury. However, the build quality of BMW, high prices and obscene service rates are not something I can live with long-term. The Magnum RT has 340HP, 390 ft/lb of torque, a 0-60 at around 6 seconds, Chrysler car reliability (which approaches Honda Accord and Toyota Camry), all for $35k.
> 
> Oh yeah, it's got the Mercedes E-class 5-speed automatic, Mercedes sterring, Mercedes suspension, Mercedes seats, a good amount of Mercedes electronics, and Continental tires.


I wouldn't count the Continental tires as a bonus, they are the worst tires I have ever had mounted to a car... :thumbdwn:  :angel:

The Magnum is tempting. I too am becoming disenchanted with the high service expense of BMW ownership (though it is getting better now that I live in an area with independant shops) and my E46 sedan is not very practical for me any more.

The only thing that keeps me from really liking the Magnum is the auto. I may be a dad who needs a bigger car, but I'm not dead, and I haven't put myself out to pasture. I still want to have fun in the family mobile. I WANT MY STICK! I'm sure that the Merc auto is nice, but the side to side motion of the "step" mode (or what ever Mercedes calls it) to me is really anoying and an unatural shift motion. If I am going to shift my manual tranny, I prefer a forward and back motion.


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

Interesting. I love the Continentals on my 330i (which I sold yesterday), mostly because they're quiet compared to other z-rated tires I've seen reviewed. The Magnum also comes with Goodyears. Unfortunatley I'll probably be getting run-flat tires on the Magnum. It's part of the "security" package that includes addiitonal airbags and things.

I'm not terribly happy with the automatic either, but I think it's probably a good one - modified from the 12-cylinder E-class Mercedes. Then again, I despise the manual in my 330i. I find the clutch difficult to modulate. 

For me the decision has been like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, trying to determine the comfort vs. performance ratio. My 97 540i without anything remotely sporty was too soft. The 330i with sport package was too hard. I'm looking for that middle ground. That's a decision everyone has to make -- it's nice having the opportunity.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Nat Brown said:


> Unfortunatley I'll probably be getting run-flat tires on the Magnum.


What's wrong with run-flats? Everyone seems to hate on them.

GL getting your Magnum/meeting your needs.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

swchang said:


> What's wrong with run-flats? Everyone seems to hate on them.
> 
> GL getting your Magnum/meeting your needs.


Many people seem to dislike them because the ride tends to more harsh with run flats. Apperently they have pretty stiff sidewalls to support the vehicle weight when there is no air in the tire.


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## gr8330 (Mar 31, 2002)

Emission said:


> Good news for you. The chassis you like, the 964, is the least desired "911" design by Porsche enthusiasts. For some reason, the 964 C2 and 964 C4 tend to have mechanical issues and are much harder to work on than the 911 before them or 993 that followed them. They are very nice mid-5 second cars, just not that popular.
> 
> .


Thanks emission, I have been told that before. I've also been told the Carreras were almost bullet proof. Right now I'm in the information gathering mode. The body style from the USA 94 and previous really are my favorites, but I wouldnt rule out a good 95, 96 if the price was right. Yes I do go back and forth. :dunno:


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## Patrick330i (Sep 30, 2002)

Emission is right, you other guys are wrong. Deal with it! 

I'd go with the 5er over the G any day of the week. granted, a 525i Step feels like a total dog, but like Emission says, there is much more to a comparo then raw hp stats, etc. This is really a no-brainer. The markets are different, pure and simple. And as for price and being able to own two G35s base for the price of a 540-6, who cares? Would you really want 2 G35s anyway? I don't think I'd really want two of anything. :angel:


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

rumratt said:


> I'm not sure I understand this. Is it because you feel you are more likely to get into an accident (worse emergency handling, etc)?
> 
> Or that you are more likely to be injured IF you get into an accident? I don't see how you can "feel" this one. A car can feel light and cheap to drive, but (in theory) be safe. :dunno:


The G35 doesn't feel like it is carved out of one piece of alloy. BMW's feel solid, substantial, heavy... the Infiniti is still lacking a bit in that department.

When a car feels heavy and substantial, you feel safe. Make sense?

Crash tests rank the G35 pretty high. It's got all the electronic gizmos, airbags, and sensors - so I don't worry about my safety (but I still feel safer in my X5!).


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## Xyrium (Apr 4, 2004)

Nat Brown said:


> You'll probably laugh at me, but I'm selling my 330i for the new Dodge Magnum. I've had the 540i and I was thinking about getting a newer one (2002) later this year for the great power and luxury. However, the build quality of BMW, high prices and obscene service rates are not something I can live with long-term. The Magnum RT has 340HP, 390 ft/lb of torque, a 0-60 at around 6 seconds, Chrysler car reliability (which approaches Honda Accord and Toyota Camry), all for $35k.
> 
> Oh yeah, it's got the Mercedes E-class 5-speed automatic, Mercedes sterring, Mercedes suspension, Mercedes seats, a good amount of Mercedes electronics, and Continental tires. Snip pic 8<----------


So that's where BMW got the exterior design for the 1 series hatch:

http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/bmw_news/article_473.shtml


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

Unfortunately we won't be seeing the 1-series coupe here, as Americans have a phobia against hatchbacks and wagons. There's doubt that the Magnum will do well too, unlike the Chysler 300, which is essentially a Magnum, but with a trunk. The Magnum will be sold in Europe as the Chrysler 300 Touring.


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

I discovered that the tires are "self-sealing" as opposed to _run-flats_, which should help the ride. I also saw that the 18" tires are H-rated 60 series, which are pretty tall compared to what I expect from 18" tires. It's that goofy trend towards large wheels.



Desertnate said:


> Many people seem to dislike them because the ride tends to more harsh with run flats. Apperently they have pretty stiff sidewalls to support the vehicle weight when there is no air in the tire.


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## Brom (Apr 29, 2004)

i tried them all
G35, acura TL, jaguar s and x types
mercedes class C and E
(also lexus es330)
G35 is really quick but man the interior sucks
eventually i took the 525i even though i knew it would be a little light on power
there is just no comparison for road feel and interior quality
the bimmer is glued to the road and feels super well balanced
the G35 feels like it might fly off the road if you make a mistake in steering

this is my first bimmer and I am so glad i made the decision

hey look it up in the reviews
525i luxury car
G36 near luxury

that says it all


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Brom said:


> i tried them all
> G35, acura TL, jaguar s and x types
> mercedes class C and E
> (also lexus es330)
> ...


Curious-- did you get an e39 525i or an e60? I'm assuming e39, since the e60's interior is not much better than G's?


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## 16hr Day (Apr 17, 2004)

Brom said:


> i tried them all
> G35, acura TL, jaguar s and x types
> mercedes class C and E
> (also lexus es330)
> ...


I started with the G35 coupe then drove the 330i ZHP ten minutes later. Night and Day. The G is a slick looking car, but it end there. The performance is almost numb, I could barely tell if the thing was running and I even stalled once becuase I couldn't hear it. The 330 has gunt and is still a very comfortable car. My problem was that I couldn't get over the look of the ///M car. So, I bought it. As far as the 5 goes, Chris has made the outside numb! :bawling:

As far as I am concerned Nissan is STILL chasing BMW.

The TL was a beautiful car too, but front drive? :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:


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## NewBmwGuy (Sep 19, 2002)

jastevenson said:


> The price is different, but the two cars are more directly comparable to each other than the 3 / G35. The 5er and G are more similar in:
> Wheelbase
> Interior room
> Exterior size
> ...


Have you driven both? There is really no comparison in the cars.

Edit: let me qualify myself. Maybe you could compare it to the 525i with Step. Otherwise, nowhere near the same class. (No disrespect to 525i Step owners.)


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