# Steering techniques



## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

How do you steer your car around the track?

I've heard differing opinions from good drivers. 

Do you leave your hands in the same place on the wheel through all but the tightest of turns? or, do you shuffle steer all the way around the track?

Now, we had a fantastic advanced classroom over the weekend, but I don't think that I agree with his steering advice. I like to shuffle steer. Less effort and more control, IMO. The steering in the 328Ci is long enough that I wouuld have to cross hands in many parts of the track, plus, corrections are much easier with hands at 9 and 3. The instructors at the BMW performance school say to shuffle steer...

thoughts?


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *The instructors at the BMW performance school say to shuffle steer... *


They do?!?

I was scolded repeatedly for my tendency to shuffle steer when I took a HPD school last year... I've since broken the habit, and keep my hands fixed on the wheel at the cross-spokes, only letting one hand go to shift or on the tightest of turns.

:dunno:


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Stuka showed me an interesting technique...

You hook your THUMB around the edge of where the horizontal spoke meets the wheel on the hand that's on the top of the steering wheel, this way you still have some control over the steering with one hand (the pushing hand) and then release the bottom hand, cross them over and catch the steering wheel with your thumb again in the same place.

I've yet to try it out on a track that requires crossing hands. Buttonhook at B-willow does require full cross of the hands, but none of the track I've been on require more than a 100 degree turn on the steering wheel.


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## FSelekler (Jan 15, 2002)

I think you will get varying answers, mainly because there is no one answer; it depends on the track, steering ratio, and comfort of driver.

I keep it fixed at 9 and 3, but sometimes have to shuffle. The point of varying methods is again control and comfort. If you shuffle, in order not to loose of steering direction, just put a red tape at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel, so you always know which way is straight. But of course that does not help if you have to frequently turn it more than 3/4 in fast hairpins


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

The HACK said:


> *Stuka showed me an interesting technique...
> 
> You hook your THUMB around the edge of where the horizontal spoke meets the wheel on the hand that's on the top of the steering wheel, this way you still have some control over the steering with one hand (the pushing hand) and then release the bottom hand, cross them over and catch the steering wheel with your thumb again in the same place.
> 
> I've yet to try it out on a track that requires crossing hands. Buttonhook at B-willow does require full cross of the hands, but none of the track I've been on require more than a 100 degree turn on the steering wheel. *


That is the Zaconne method from "Teh Secret of Solo Racing."

It is really difficult to explain well. It is much better if someone can demo it to you.

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## ayn (Dec 19, 2001)

The in car cameras at the Monoco race showed most drivers crossing their hands in tight turns, but of course their steering wheels are not the same and I don't think they can shuffle... heh...

I don't shuffle either... and at TWS there is really no need... which turn(s) did you have to shuffle?

--Andrew


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

ayn said:


> *
> 
> I don't shuffle either... and at TWS there is really no need... which turn(s) did you have to shuffle?
> 
> --Andrew *


Definitely in the carosel, but I am comfortable with it over the entire track.

I've gotten really good at it, actually. It actually made avioding a spinning E36 M3 in the esses much easier...


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

FSelekler said:


> *I think you will get varying answers, mainly because there is no one answer; it depends on the track, steering ratio, and comfort of driver.
> 
> I keep it fixed at 9 and 3, but sometimes have to shuffle. The point of varying methods is again control and comfort. If you shuffle, in order not to loose of steering direction, just put a red tape at 12 o'clock on the steering wheel, so you always know which way is straight. But of course that does not help if you have to frequently turn it more than 3/4 in fast hairpins  *


Nah, the tape thing is bullshit.

You should be able to fell which way the steering is pointing by the behavior of the chassis and steering feedback.

I can


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## in_d_haus (Jan 2, 2002)

We teach to keep your hands in the same spot except in the tightest of turns. This is so you always know where center is. If you are sliding your hands around it is easy to lose center.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

I've heard all of the above. Shuffle-steer. Don't shuffle-steer. Don't hook your thumbs (break in collision). Don't cross your arms (air bag). Keep your hands in fixed positions. Etc.

The one I like best is to grip the wheel on both sides (2:30 and 9:30 is comfy for me) and keep your hands there for gradual turns. By gradual, I mean less than 60 or so degrees of input is required to make the turn.

Where greater input is required, release the wheel with one hand and grab it so that when that hand rotates back to the default position the car will have exactly the input it needs for the turn in question.

For example, when approaching the turn-in for a left hand turn that requires 90 degrees of wheel input, release the wheel with your left hand and grab it again at the 12:30 position. Turn left until your hand is at the default (for me) 9:30 position while allowing the wheel to slide in your right hand.

Learn the turns as "1 o'clock" or "11 o'clock" turns and it can help to make things consistent as you develop / improve your line.

Love it or hate it, that's the way I'm doing it... for now. With any luck you can follow the description above and it helps someone.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

The HACK said:


> *Stuka showed me an interesting technique...
> 
> You hook your THUMB around the edge of where the horizontal spoke meets the wheel on the hand that's on the top of the steering wheel, this way you still have some control over the steering with one hand (the pushing hand) and then release the bottom hand, cross them over and catch the steering wheel with your thumb again in the same place.
> *


I'd have to see this but this sounds like the way I drive normally. Though you may get in big trouble if you do this while off-roading.

I was specifically taught in high school driver's ed and by my parents NOT to shuffle, so that's the habit I've gained, and cringe whenever I ride with someone who does.

The only time where I've seen some 'professional' specifically say TO shuffle was for stunt driving.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Kaz said:


> *I was specifically taught in high school driver's ed and by my parents NOT to shuffle, so that's the habit I've gained, and cringe whenever I ride with someone who does.
> 
> The only time where I've seen some 'professional' specifically say TO shuffle was for stunt driving. *


Police are taught to shuffle steer in their EVOC training here... (at least that's what I was told by my bud who is an officer)


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## Akakubi (Dec 21, 2001)

10:00 - 2:00 o'clock for me on the track. I get best feel and control out of this position. I don't shuffle on the track. The chicane is very tight, but not tight enough to shuffle. The arm do cross though for a bit. 

AutoX is a different story however. I have no choice but to shuffle. Some turns go to two wheel turns. I am comfortable with both methods. 

:dunno:


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

I drive with a little of both.

My hands are almost always at 9 and 3. In sharper turns, where crossing doesn't get you far enough, I have no choice but to shuffle a little. However, I don't recall ever having a problem finding center again, so for me that easier to find center thing doesn't fit as much.

On the track, I try to do 9 and 3 only as much as I can, but being as tall as I am, I can't get optimal seating position with my helmet on to be able to do this, and I end up having to shuffle slightly... no more than maybe 45 degrees up or down on the steering wheel.

I've tried scooting closer to the wheel, but then that puts me a little too close to the airbag, and my long legs are more restricted in movement. I sure wish the power seats could go lower just another inch or so....


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *Nah, the tape thing is bullshit.
> 
> You should be able to fell which way the steering is pointing by the behavior of the chassis and steering feedback.
> 
> I can *


It may be, but a lot of professional racers use the tape on the wheel...the idea being that its easier to find dead center when you are in a spin.

btw, I don't shuffle steer...3 & 9 just feels more natural to me, but from what I understand either method is correct and that you should pick which one you like and stick with it.


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## Chris330Ci (Jan 23, 2002)

9 & 3 works well and is very comfortable for me. I think my last instructor would have had a fit had I done anything but. Another thing that was beaten into my head was that your right hand only drops right before your up/downshift and then goes immediately back up to the wheel. Lazy shifting is a :nono:. Makes sense.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

If you shuffle steer you can't keep looking outside and figure out where straight ahead on the wheel is.

The way I have been taught at every cprofessional driving school out there (Roos, Barber, Daly, European Rallye) is to start with hands at 9 and 3. Turn the wheel until one hand is at the bottom of the wheel (abot 90 degrees of wheel turning), then relax that lower hand and keep turning with the upper hand.

You can get about 270 degrees of wheel turn this way. If you need more, release the loose lower hand, and move it to pick up a spoke and continue turing. At the same relax what was the upper hand. Repeat as needed.

As you unwind the wheel, just pick up the spoke with the appropriate hand at the right time.

Takes longer to write than to do.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> *If you shuffle steer you can't keep looking outside and figure out where straight ahead on the wheel is.
> 
> The way I have been taught at every cprofessional driving school out there (Roos, Barber, Daly, European Rallye) is to start with hands at 9 and 3. Turn the wheel until one hand is at the bottom of the wheel (abot 90 degrees of wheel turning), then relax that lower hand and keep turning with the upper hand.
> 
> ...


That is basically what I do, but probably a little less than 90 degree wheel turn before the hand moves.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *That is basically what I do, but probably a little less than 90 degree wheel turn before the hand moves. *


Me too....


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

I've driven a number of different cars on TWS, and never had to shuffle.

I *used* to think I had to, especially in the carousel, when I was starting out.

Eventually I realized that as I rotated past 90 degrees, I'd just open my bottom hand, leaving my bottom thumb hooked on the spoke. That thumb, plus your top hand gripping the wheel normally, is plenty of control. Gives you at least 180 degrees in either direction.

I try not to be a Nazi about it, though, if my student can't seem to restrain himself. My early instructors gave me some room to figure this out for myself eventually!


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## dwm (Jun 3, 2003)

*re. shuffle steering*

As near as I can tell, the only reason to shuffle steer (as opposed to other techniques) is to avoid injury should your airbags deploy while your arms are crossed. Having learned and gotten into the habit of using the Zaccone method, I had to ask the instructors at the M Driving School why they were teaching shuffle steering. The answer I got was, "To avoid liability should someone be injured as a result of us teaching a method where arms obstruct the air bag trajectory." I mentioned that I was using Zaccone (I like to intuitively know where center is), he said that it was fine but that BMW wouldn't teach it here in the U.S. due to airbags. There's probably also the fact that we're a litigation-happy country. 

Presumably anyone who knows what they're doing has a fairly low chance of their airbags deploying while their arms are crossed (you don't normally hit the wall with your wheel turned 180 degrees ). On the street anything can happen, but I personally don't consider it a significant risk.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Can you say, LET GO OF THE STEERING WHEEL BEFORE YOU HIT ANYTHING?


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> *Can you say, LET GO OF THE STEERING WHEEL BEFORE YOU HIT ANYTHING?
> 
> *


You might not have enough time to say all of that before hitting something. Best to just let go.

:angel:


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

OK, a variation on the thread, how do you grip the wheel? I've noticed that Tommy Kendall (4 time trans am champ), and I've heard Judy Ray/Carl McGinn (local CCA instructors/racers) grip the wheel with their fingers and thumb vs. having your palms and fingers wrapped around the wheel. 

Presumably this it to provide better feel...anyone have thoughts on this, have you tried it? I"ve experimented a little on the street with it and I think I like it.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> *OK, a variation on the thread, how do you grip the wheel? I've noticed that Tommy Kendall (4 time trans am champ), and I've heard Judy Ray/Carl McGinn (local CCA instructors/racers) grip the wheel with their fingers and thumb vs. having your palms and fingers wrapped around the wheel.
> 
> Presumably this it to provide better feel...anyone have thoughts on this, have you tried it? I"ve experimented a little on the street with it and I think I like it. *


I've tried the Judy Ray and I like it. A lot. Enough to almost constantly grip my steering with with just my thumb and two other fingers and palm almost just resting on the steering wheel.


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## Akakubi (Dec 21, 2001)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> *OK, a variation on the thread, how do you grip the wheel? I've noticed that Tommy Kendall (4 time trans am champ), and I've heard Judy Ray/Carl McGinn (local CCA instructors/racers) grip the wheel with their fingers and thumb vs. having your palms and fingers wrapped around the wheel.
> 
> Presumably this it to provide better feel...anyone have thoughts on this, have you tried it? I"ve experimented a little on the street with it and I think I like it. *


Hmmm, interesting. I will have to try that.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

all fingers here


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> *OK, a variation on the thread, how do you grip the wheel? I've noticed that Tommy Kendall (4 time trans am champ), and I've heard Judy Ray/Carl McGinn (local CCA instructors/racers) grip the wheel with their fingers and thumb vs. having your palms and fingers wrapped around the wheel.
> 
> Presumably this it to provide better feel...anyone have thoughts on this, have you tried it? I"ve experimented a little on the street with it and I think I like it. *


I rode with Karl, Carl and Wenny at the Vegas school and noticed they were all doing that too...

I've tried it.... it feels pretty comfortable... although when I rest my palms on the 9 and 3 positons, the rest of my fingers just curl around the wheel... I'm not actually gripping the wheel with the other fingers....


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

Something else just occurred to me when I was watching this classic bit of educational video:

http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Video clips/LRP August 2000/thecrash.mpg

Watch his hands during the first few turns. He's shuffle steering, and moving his hands really slowly. 'Slow hands' is good for high speed turns; don't want to upset the car. But when things start to go wrong, his slow, shuffle steering habit bites him in the a$$. If his conditioned behavior was to always leave his hands at 9 & 3, he would have been instinctively ready to dial in gobs of corrective RIGHT NOW.

Food for thought.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

rhenriksen said:


> *Something else just occurred to me when I was watching this classic bit of educational video:
> 
> http://www.submariner.org/thepno95/Video clips/LRP August 2000/thecrash.mpg
> 
> ...


True, he was slow to correct and by the time he did, it was lost, but I don't think that's necessarily inherint in shuffle steering as I've driven with a very fast DE instructor who shuffle steered and he made some very fast and quick corrections to the wheel.

I think the biggest issue in that crash was he apexed way too early and was possibly distracted by trying to narrate for the camera. But kudos to him for distributing it so we can all learn from it.


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