# To Dinan or not to Dinan?



## marksmith (Aug 9, 2003)

I've had 2 all Dinan BMW's in the last 4 years & loved each one. I am seeking feedback on Dinan products for my new M3 SMG. Anyone out there using Dinan stuff on their M3? (I think there are a few?):
-Dinan Exhaust: seems like an odd, unorthadox solution. Does it work/power gains? What's the sound? Black tips? Need matching sofware?
-CAI w/ mass air meter: Not the usual sub-bumber unit. Gains? Sound (if any?) Throttle improvements & software benefits? 
-Dinan/Koni suspension: Loved this on my other cars! Does it do much for the e46 M3? Improve town (softer ride) & performance (progressive rating) driving? Lower ride height? Sway bars are the same dimension/diameter as OE so what are the gains?
-Differential: From my experience this was the biggest "bang fot the bucks" Dinan mod I've every made. Anyone got this?
Torque gains? Fuel economy loss ( 1-3 mpg on the highway or more?) Good match for the SMG? 
-SMG software: This sounds tricky to me. Benefits & differences?
-Dinan wheels: Holy S---! These require massive tires front & rear. This is a lot of contact patch. It must dimnish the ride & cause big-time fuel losses? BUT they are aesthetically very nice & create impressive laterial grip. Anyone got these monsters? 

Finally what's the best sequence if it's not done in mass (exhaust w/ CAI & matching software 1st ?) stage 2? etc.
Thanks!
Mark Smith


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

marksmith said:


> I've had 2 all Dinan BMW's in the last 4 years & loved each one. I am seeking feedback on Dinan products for my new M3 SMG. Anyone out there using Dinan stuff on their M3? (I think there are a few?):
> -Dinan Exhaust: seems like an odd, unorthadox solution. Does it work/power gains? What's the sound? Black tips? Need matching sofware?
> -CAI w/ mass air meter: Not the usual sub-bumber unit. Gains? Sound (if any?) Throttle improvements & software benefits?
> -Dinan/Koni suspension: Loved this on my other cars! Does it do much for the e46 M3? Improve town (softer ride) & performance (progressive rating) driving? Lower ride height? Sway bars are the same dimension/diameter as OE so what are the gains?
> ...


At this point I'm short the 3.91 Differential (supposed to arrive any day now). This will complete the full Dinan S2 package, except for the floor mats, which I can do without. I started with the wheels and S03 tires (big improvement in handling, takes almost all of the understeer out). Then the stage 3 suspension - This DOES increase the diameter of the front sway bar and is adjustable. The stage 3 suspension also includes Koni struts and shocks, springs (these do lower the ride height), and front camber plates. I also have the front and rear shock tower braces. These mods took the ride from that of fork lift to that of a grocery cart.  Seriously, it inspires way more confidence than you could imagine or should expect. I've driven as much as 750 back road miles in a day without any physical problems. Then came the muffler (sweet music - I don't listen to radio much any more). The muffler design is really a rather elegant solution to the raspy sound and back pressure problem of the stock unit. I recently got the air box, AFM and throttle bodies modification installed, but I haven't had a chance to really test the difference. My sense is that it won't do much, at least on the butt dyno, but what the Hell it's there. As for the software it's installed incrementally with each mod. I believe I'm at stage 4. In fact software is what was holding up the differential. When the 3.91 differential was installed in an SMG II car, the software thought it was reaching the rev limiter at 4K RPMs. Dinan has fixed that and is now shipping diffs for SMG cars so perhaps I'll be getting stage 5 software. I have to believe this will make a big performance improvement.

In answer to your last question: if you're not going to track your car, wheels/tires and the differential would be enough. Throw in the muffler for a sweet sound and imperceptable HP gain.

My baseline for all this performance is two BMW M schools. The time on the skid pads and wet driving courses reveal the gobs of understeer the stock set up has. The school's cars were equipped with Michelin Pilots and Contis (which is what my car came with). Having driven both of these tires and the Bridgestones, I say for my driving style the S03s are the best.

The M school gave me the opportunity to aggresively drive both the 6 speed and the SMG II. And your right, the SMG II is a whole more interesting, involving and fun. Bill Auberlien was at my last school and he said he swore by the SMG II. (I got to ride with him around the course for a lap and it took me a whole day to recover I was hanging on so tight.) :bigpimp:

As to cost for the Dinan stuff........... You can't take it with you so you might as well spend it on something you can enjoy.


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## FlyingDutchMan (Jul 18, 2003)

marksmith said:


> I've had 2 all Dinan BMW's in the last 4 years & loved each one. I am seeking feedback on Dinan products for my new M3 SMG. Anyone out there using Dinan stuff on their M3? (I think there are a few?):
> 
> -SMG software: This sounds tricky to me. Benefits & differences?
> -Dinan wheels: Holy S---! These require massive tires front & rear. This is a lot of contact patch. It must dimnish the ride & cause big-time fuel losses? BUT they are aesthetically very nice & create impressive laterial grip. Anyone got these monsters?
> ...


I have had a couple Dinan cars in the past, and I am happy with their engine software i& ntake stuff. But the rest is too mild and more expensive than more hardcore setups; so overall it is exponentially a bad deal for me. I would get the Dinan intake and software, do the 3.91 gears which you can source from Turner MS cheaper if I recall corrrectly. Same goes for the rims, Dinan does have a good set up, but I am having the same width rims made for under $2000.00 in three peice in 18inch, so I can fit more race tires. Additionally Complete Custom Wheel will be making a 19 inch fitment like Dinans in a one piece that is super strong for around $2200.00.

As far as Dinan suspension goes, it is kind of a junior varisity setup, I wanted to be able to balance the car properly so I went with the Ground Control setup. As long as you have ride height/weight jacks, choice of spring rates and adjustable front camber plate any of the other setups available should do.

Again, a complete Dinan setup is fine if your not that serious, for example on my old mans 740 Sport, but I just can't bring myself to spend more money for a setup that delivers less. 90% of the people out there probably wouldn't benefit from the extra adjustablility and would only end up screwing things up worse than stock, but even if that is the case I don't think you should pay more for less flexibility. I hate the idea of knowing I spent more money than the next guy and I might still be slower.

Since you've already been the Dinan route, I'd try the a more flexible setup and untap the E46's full potential. It might take a little trial and error to dial the car to your driving style, but it will be a more rewarding experience than dropping the car off at Dinan for some bolt-ons and writing a check for 50% more than you have too. If you do decide to go the Ground Control route, I can give you some input on what I have learned. That having been said I will be using Dinan's airbox and software, because I do feel that this is an area where they have a core competency.


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

FlyingDutchMan said:


> I have had a couple Dinan cars in the past, and I am happy with their engine software i& ntake stuff. But the rest is too mild and more expensive than more hardcore setups; so overall it is exponentially a bad deal for me. I would get the Dinan intake and software, do the 3.91 gears which you can source from Turner MS cheaper if I recall corrrectly. Same goes for the rims, Dinan does have a good set up, but I am having the same width rims made for under $2000.00 in three peice in 18inch, so I can fit more race tires. Additionally Complete Custom Wheel will be making a 19 inch fitment like Dinans in a one piece that is super strong for around $2200.00.
> 
> As far as Dinan suspension goes, it is kind of a junior varisity setup, I wanted to be able to balance the car properly so I went with the Ground Control setup. As long as you have ride height/weight jacks, choice of spring rates and adjustable front camber plate any of the other setups available should do.
> 
> ...


Flying Dutchman, everything you say makes sense to me. You are apparently a DIYer with the tools or access to same with the time and talent to get all this done. I also believe you are preparing your car for the track and all that that requires. In my case I'm not so serious. I only want a fast, good handling road car. So I don't feel the need to get into the esoterica of modifications. I believe the Dinan mods, while maybe overpriced, certainly improve the cars handling and performance. Competitive on the track? Probably not, but then I don't think Dinan makes that claim. I've taken the easy way out by having the dealer, who sold me the car, do the installation.

The most important aspect of this route is my new car warranty is not compromised. With the warranty issues I've already encountered (the service action for bearing/oil pump replacement) I don't want to put myself in the position of having BMW NA deny future warranty coverage due to my modifying the car. Dinan has cultivated a relationship with BMW that has made their warranty coverage seamless. Perhaps that explains some of the extra cost of their equipment. If you're handy with tools and have them, you have the time and the talent you probably aren't going to worry about warranty issues.

Marksmith has to decide which direction he wishes to pursue based on how he intends to use his car and his abilities to do the modifications. All the options and possibilities are what makes this exercise so interesting and fun.


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## FlyingDutchMan (Jul 18, 2003)

m3jlk said:


> Flying Dutchman, everything you say makes sense to me. You are apparently a DIYer with the tools or access to same with the time and talent ......
> 
> Marksmith has to decide which direction he wishes to pursue based on how he intends to use his car and his abilities to do the modifications. All the options and possibilities are what makes this exercise so interesting and fun.


I hear what your saying, and I think you hit the nail on the head so to speak. You can chalk the extra expense on the Dinan stuff to piece of mind. I did install my own GC suspension and all the mods in the garage, I enjoy that part of the project.

This brings me to another point. The warranty claim thing is something consumers need to get smarter about. I never considered BMW NA to be the critical factor in warranty claims, it is the dealer. Building a relationship with your service advisor and a particular mechanice, preferably one that is a car/racing enthusaist goes a long way. To many times customers get into pissing contests with the service department, instead lubricate the system by leaving 12packs of Heineken in the trunk with a note for the mechanic, a gift certificate for the service advisor etc. These things go a long way to ensure you won't have any problems regardless of mods and you get appointment when you need them, rental car whatever. I know it seems crazy that if you buy a $50K and you need to do this to get to notch service, but it is just a matter to taking car of the right people. Not to mention there are hundreds of people like myself that can afford cars like this, so I have to do something to differentiate myself as a customer. The amount of flexibility the dealer has on deciding how to handle warranty claims is surprising to me.

Assuming your not running nitrious injection and trying to get dropped pistons warrantied or course.


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

FlyingDutchMan said:


> I hear what your saying, and I think you hit the nail on the head so to speak. You can chalk the extra expense on the Dinan stuff to piece of mind. I did install my own GC suspension and all the mods in the garage, I enjoy that part of the project.
> 
> This brings me to another point. The warranty claim thing is something consumers need to get smarter about. I never considered BMW NA to be the critical factor in warranty claims, it is the dealer. Building a relationship with your service advisor and a particular mechanice, preferably one that is a car/racing enthusaist goes a long way. To many times customers get into pissing contests with the service department, instead lubricate the system by leaving 12packs of Heineken in the trunk with a note for the mechanic, a gift certificate for the service advisor etc. These things go a long way to ensure you won't have any problems regardless of mods and you get appointment when you need them, rental car whatever. I know it seems crazy that if you buy a $50K and you need to do this to get to notch service, but it is just a matter to taking car of the right people. Not to mention there are hundreds of people like myself that can afford cars like this, so I have to do something to differentiate myself as a customer. The amount of flexibility the dealer has on deciding how to handle warranty claims is surprising to me.
> 
> Assuming your not running nitrious injection and trying to get dropped pistons warrantied or course.


You got it! In my case I'm working with a heads up dealer. He sold me the car at MSRP (less the BMW CCA discount) and has been extremely helpful and patient with me ever since. The mechanics who work on the car and the parts department guy who shills  for Dinan are racing enthusiasts. I think they're getting a kick out of installing the mods on my car and a couple of others in the area. After all, they do have to do a test drive everytime they install a new piece of equipment/software don't they?

If you've read my posts on this and other forums you could pretty well figure out that I'm just an old fart spending his money, so the kids don't get it all, and I'm having fun while I'm doing it.


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## marksmith (Aug 9, 2003)

*Dinan as opposed to....*

Right on old farts!! As one of the charter members of Old Farts Spending Money on BMW's I can attest to the shear pleasure of spending down the family assets tweeking my car. More to the point: I do not track my car (maybe 3 time a years) and I enjoy a good relationship w/ my dealer & mechanic. Dinan is indeed well suited to those of us who prefer a "turn-key" experience. My idea is to create a streetable, fun and interesting ride.
Currently I am leaning this way (ASAP next week) unless someone points out a flaw in the game plan: 
-Supersprint exhaust (the Dinan set-up may yeild 10% more power but the black tips, coffee can tone & the mono sound is not to my liking.) Am I being too hasty in dismissing the Dinan exhaust? 
-Dinan CAI w/ stage 3 software.
-Dinan stage 2 suspension (nice improvements over stock but not extreme.)

Phase 2 (3 months or so):
-Dian Diff. (is the associated SMG software out yet & how is it?)
-Brembo Big brake kit: Yes I know this is not necessray but I have grown to love the confident feel of the 14" Brembo kit (which I had on my last 3 cars.) Also I love the aesthetics of this brake kit.

If all of this gets me 2/10's from 0-60 I will be pleased but it's really not the point. If I can wrest a bit more out of my M3, perk-up the mid-rage power curve and get a slightly better handling i will be pleased

These mods are near my $10-12K " Ideal" budget and will contribute to my driving enjoyment.


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

Not sure the Dinan S/W is compatible with the Supersprint. Check with Dinan @ 408 779-8584 before you spend your money.


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

I don't have the diff and associated S/W yet. I expect it any day now. It should be available and well sorted by the time you go to your phase 2.


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## marksmith (Aug 9, 2003)

*Mixing metaphors...*

I have mixed Supersprint w/ Dinan in 2 earlier cars w/ very good results.
-Since the Dinan e46 exhaust is the only aftermarket exhaust that eschews the OE engineering design & takes such a straight-line approach, it may be more critical to go "All Dinan" ( true synergy among the parts.) The Exhaust software is not so essential (so says Di
- I know someone w/ a Supersprint/Dinan CAI/Dinan stage 3 combo who's car is running like a sewing machine. I don't know if it would be even better were it all Dinan? 
-My big question is: does the Dinan exhaust sound nice to the ears from the drivers perspective (who cares about pedestrians!) Does it drone? Does it sound rich, mellow, deep(ish) Better than the stock unit (maybe a bit louder to hear shift points?) and most importantly what does it sound like at WOT?

Thanks!


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

marksmith said:


> I have mixed Supersprint w/ Dinan in 2 earlier cars w/ very good results.
> -Since the Dinan e46 exhaust is the only aftermarket exhaust that eschews the OE engineering design & takes such a straight-line approach, it may be more critical to go "All Dinan" ( true synergy among the parts.) The Exhaust software is not so essential (so says Di
> - I know someone w/ a Supersprint/Dinan CAI/Dinan stage 3 combo who's car is running like a sewing machine. I don't know if it would be even better were it all Dinan?
> -My big question is: does the Dinan exhaust sound nice to the ears from the drivers perspective (who cares about pedestrians!) Does it drone? Does it sound rich, mellow, deep(ish) Better than the stock unit (maybe a bit louder to hear shift points?) and most importantly what does it sound like at WOT?
> ...


Mufflers, wheels and toothbrushes are all very much alike.....VERY Personal. The Dinan muffler, while having only one outlet, it is next to impossible to tell where the sound is coming from, even when standing in back of the car. The only real clue is if vapor is coming out of the right side. I didn't think I'd like the black tips, but after I saw them on the car I thought they're kind'a cool. They provide an indication that something is different, and they are nicely engraved with the Dinan name. Sound? I'd say mellow, but loud enough to let you know it's there. Droning? Some at around 2750 RPM, but to me it's a nice droning sound, and I drive in town listening to IT rather than the radio. It's easily overcome either buy shifting or turning on the radio and closing the windows. The muffler is not a sound factor on the highway. WOT? Hey, it sounds good to me. Again, this a very subjective and personal subject. You might try getting ahold of Dinan's "white paper" (on his web site?) on the design of the muffler. I would think matching the software to the muffler would realize the greatest gain in HP.


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## cosmos (Jan 18, 2002)

*About your wheels???*

How much room is there upfront with clearence?? I am running H&R coilovers and lower the car only to the top of the tire, However I do track and drive agressively. Can I fit this wheel (9.5) and the tire (275) upfront with my suspension? Does the wheel fit out from the fender much?


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

cosmos said:


> How much room is there upfront with clearence?? I am running H&R coilovers and lower the car only to the top of the tire, However I do track and drive agressively. Can I fit this wheel (9.5) and the tire (275) upfront with my suspension? Does the wheel fit out from the fender much?


You'd have ask Dinan that question. Don't know the difference between the Dinan suspension and yours. In my case with the Dinan suspension and wheels there is no rubbing although to look at it there is very little clearance. I've exercised the full travel of the suspension in aggresive back road driving and have not experienced any problems.


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## MPowerMe (May 18, 2003)

For the E46 M3 a lot of us have had good results with Eurobahn Superchips http://www.eurobahn.us I wanted something with some documented HP added. Search on toadfly there are quite a few dynos.


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