# Why there are no rear foglights in the US



## ChadS (Jan 4, 2002)

I have rear fogs on my car.  Installed it myself and I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually used them.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

ChadS said:


> I have rear fogs on my car.  Installed it myself and I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually used them.


But, you get to say you have them, right? Invaluable.


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## Terry Kennedy (Sep 21, 2002)

Dave 330i said:


> Are they needed? What's wrong with just using regular rear red lights? In Germany there's no requirement for the center brake light, but we have them here in the USA. Are the Germans disregarding the benefit of the center light? Bottom line is, lighting requirements are not as beneficial as they are intended.


The story I heard was that when Libby Dole was Secretary of Transportation, she gave the automakers their choice of either the 3rd brake light or the driver airbag as a Federally-mandated safety feature, and the automakers took the 3rd brake light as it was cheaper.

On a BMW, you have to exhibit actual planning to illuminate the rear fogs - you need to either have the headlights or front fogs on before the rear fog button will work, and once you switch off the ignition, you have to repeat that sequence to light them up again.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

ChadS said:


> I have rear fogs on my car.  Installed it myself and I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually used them.


Funny you bring that up...

When I had my car in Europe, I frequently drove through heavy rain with lots of road spray, thick fog, and occasionally snow. At those times the only way you could see the car in front of you and prevent recieving a 2K+ lb steel inama was thanks to rear fogs. Now that I am back in the US for about 8 months, I have not once turned them on or even found myself in a situation where I felt I needed to turn them on. :dunno:


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## phrider (May 6, 2002)

Kaz said:


> I see them turned on on various pieces of Euro cars around here. It's bad enough that people run with their front fogs on because it's 'kewl.' I've never investigated this, but I wonder if MB/Volvo/Audi/Jag have separate switches for front and rear fogs like BMWs do.


Our 2003 Volvo XC70 has independent switches for front and rear fogs.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

ChadS said:


> I have rear fogs on my car.  Installed it myself and I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually used them.


Pics? (You too, Desertnate.)


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Sorry, facelift sedan folks are still SOL on this one, AFAIK.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Kaz said:


> Sorry, facelift sedan folks are still SOL on this one, AFAIK.


Really?

Can they not wire up the top set of tail lights (the ones above the blinker portion) like the Euro sedans do. If I recall, the Euro versions light normally as a tail light on the face lift cars and then increase intesity with either a different bulb or a second element in the bulb when the rear fog is switched on.

I think that is where the rear fog was...Alex, Andy Thomas, London Talking, Patrick...can one of you confirm this?


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

swchang said:


> Pics? (You too, Desertnate.)


I'll try and get some pics of them on...

Hey finaly a chance to turn them on!!  I wonder of they still work... :eeps:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Desertnate said:


> Really?
> 
> Can they not wire up the top set of tail lights (the ones above the blinker portion) like the Euro sedans do. If I recall, the Euro versions light normally as a tail light on the face lift cars and then increase intesity with either a different bulb or a second element in the bulb when the rear fog is switched on.
> 
> I think that is where the rear fog was...Alex, Andy Thomas, London Talking, Patrick...can one of you confirm this?


The light above the signals on facelift cars is the brake light. The fog is in the same position as coupes/pre-facelift, but is run differently.

Here it is in all its gory detail:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39941


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## ChadS (Jan 4, 2002)

They were a little hard to take, but here are some pics.


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## ChadS (Jan 4, 2002)

Desertnate said:


> Funny you bring that up...
> 
> When I had my car in Europe, I frequently drove through heavy rain with lots of road spray, thick fog, and occasionally snow. At those times the only way you could see the car in front of you and prevent recieving a 2K+ lb steel inama was thanks to rear fogs. Now that I am back in the US for about 8 months, I have not once turned them on or even found myself in a situation where I felt I needed to turn them on. :dunno:


That's the really weird part of having rear fog lights. Before I had them I thought of all the times I could use them. Now that I actually have them though, it's rare that they are ever on. The few times that I have used them was in heavy snow in almost blizzard conditions and the rest in heavy rain or dense fog. In total probably about 5 or 6 times when I was really happy I had them.

And please, if anybody does have them, do not ride around in perfectly clear conditions with them on. :tsk:


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

ChadS, looks good. :thumbup: So even though you had it installed in the UK, they put it on the left for you?

BTW, did we ever figure out why there's only 1 rear fog on 3/C/A4, even though they have 2 on the higher models?

Oh, and no rear fog available for post-facelift E46 sedans = :thumbdwn:.


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## ruteger (Dec 31, 2001)

Dave 330i said:


> Are they needed? What's wrong with just using regular rear red lights? In Germany there's no requirement for the center brake light, but we have them here in the USA. Are the Germans disregarding the benefit of the center light? Bottom line is, lighting requirements are not as beneficial as they are intended.


The rear fogs are *bright* (atleast on that Olds), much brighter than regular tail lights. The intensity is roughly equivalent to brake lights. That's the reason it was startling (at first) to see them constantly lit up in the bumper of that Aurora in front of me.

Frankly, I'm hoping this is the reason manufacturers have went with the single rear fog light instead of two: to differentiate it from the brake lights. Maybe when seeing just the one light in inclement weather, someone following would be less inclined to think the person in front were using their brake lights and slam on 'their' brakes in anticipation, possibly causing an accident. Although I would imagine that the real reason is one of simple economics, i.e., it's much cheaper than two rear fog lights.

As to people using their rear fogs needlessly, I would have liked to have informed that dolt who was mindlessly driving about with her rear fogs on what an idiot she was. But then, the same applies to all the dolts who drive around with their front fogs on all the time, so what's the use?:banghead:


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

ruteger said:


> The rear fogs are *bright* (atleast on that Olds), much brighter than regular tail lights. The intensity is roughly equivalent to brake lights. That's the reason it was startling (at first) to see them constantly lit up in the bumper of that Aurora in front of me.
> 
> Frankly, I'm hoping this is the reason manufacturers have went with the single rear fog light instead of two: to differentiate it from the brake lights. Maybe when seeing just the one light in inclement weather, someone following would be less inclined to think the person in front were using their brake lights and slam on 'their' brakes in anticipation, possibly causing an accident. Although I would imagine that the real reason is one of simple economics, i.e., it's much cheaper than two rear fog lights.
> 
> As to people using their rear fogs needlessly, I would have liked to have informed that dolt who was mindlessly driving about with her rear fogs on what an idiot she was. But then, the same applies to all the dolts who drive around with their front fogs on all the time, so what's the use?:banghead:


Why on one side, then? It just looks like a brake light burned out on the other side. Something in the middle of the bumper (or similar placement) would make more sense to me...


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I am amazed that The General would equip one of their Oldsmo-Buicks with rear fogs.....


Same here. I don't even know of any domestics with rear fog lights.


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## ChadS (Jan 4, 2002)

swchang said:


> ChadS, looks good. :thumbup: So even though you had it installed in the UK, they put it on the left for you?


Nope I installed it myself. There is a DIY floating around somewhere here.


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## mbushnell (Aug 7, 2002)

Desertnate said:


> Also I noticed that in the UK and across Europe it seemed the older Volvo's, Mercedes, Audi's, VW's and some Citroen and Renaults had two while the newer ones all had a miss-mash that didn't seem year dependant. I could never figure out if it was a matter of one bulb burning out or only one lit on purpose. Many of the smaller and/or low end cars like Puegoets, Fiats, Alfas, Vauxhall/Opel only had an assembly for one rear fog. The matching lense on the other side of the car was the clear lense for the reverse light.


Could that be because of the E.U.? I seem to remember that one of my uncles in France saying that the reason why France switched from yellow to white headlights several years ago was because the E.U. basicly told them to.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

ChadS said:


> Nope I installed it myself. There is a DIY floating around somewhere here.


Whoops. Think I got you and Desertnate mixed up.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

swchang said:


> Whoops. Think I got you and Desertnate mixed up.


You did...I'm the one with the dual rear fogs...

I'll try and get pics this evening.


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