# Thoughts and opinions on Dinan performance parts?



## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

I'm considering spicing my '02 330Ci up a bit (somewhere down the road) and have looked into Dinan's many offerings. Has anyone had any experiences — good or bad — with Dinan that they would comment on?

Specifically: Dinan's CAI, engine software, exhaust, Stage 2 suspension, and modified final drive differential.


What's the word?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

http://www.mindspring.com/~pmbenn/dinan3.htm

I like my software and intake, the suspension is great so I hear. I would not get their differential though, as it is still an open unit. You can find some Limited Slips that would be far better than the Dinan open differential


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *http://www.mindspring.com/~pmbenn/dinan3.htm
> 
> I like my software and intake, the suspension is great so I hear. I would not get their differential though, as it is still an open unit. You can find some Limited Slips that would be far better than the Dinan open differential *


Excellent link. Thanks!


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## gundamzaku (Jan 25, 2002)

i just think that dinan is very expensive. other alternative brands which will give you similar performance maybe be better. but again if you got the bucks...why not. and since you did just got the new car, i assume that you do have bucks like the rest of these guys/gals here.


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## gundamzaku (Jan 25, 2002)

oh yeah, i heard that uuc makes good parts for bimmers, as well as eibach and h&r. but i really think it's personal preference.


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## blackdawg (Jan 4, 2002)

*good stuff.*

kind of things you can buy and never really worry about.

to wit: dinan and bmw teamed up. there are now dinan certified pre-owned cars for sale at dealers across the USA. if dinan did not have the tuner/manufacturer status that alpina has (they DO), BMW would never affiliate with dinan in this way, or allow it to happen.

the suspension stuff is basic and really expensive, but it's guaranteed to fit, particularly the sway bars. it's well sorted out, but other options are just as good.

the engine stuff, well if you shop around, you'll see most CAIs for about $300 to $400, so they're int he ballpark, same for software.

the exhausts...those are personal preference and to me, there is a finite amount of engineering that can go into making an exhaust and what you pay for is quality of welds and starting materials.

i had a highly dinan-ized M coupe and never had any of hte problems (it was supercharged) that people had with RMS or ERT kits. these issues ranged from programming, check engine lights, hot start problems, injector seep on startup causing smoke.......


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I love the Dinan suspension on my 5-series. It's a great blend of excellent handling and decent ride quality. The handling was a huge improvement over stock for my car, and was so good that I decided I needed to go to some driver's schools to find out where the limits were. :thumbup: 

Dinan suspensions should not be bought for looks, though. My car was only lowered to the ride height of a stock M5, and I've heard their applications are similar.


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## abqhudson (Dec 22, 2001)

*DINAN.*

First rate stuff at first rate prices. None better.

Customer service is non-existent and arrogant. I previously purchased Dinan S/W and stage two suspension, but because of their attitude toward their customers, I purchased H&R/Koni suspension and Conforti for my present car - I wish I had purchased the Dinan suspension. YMMV.

Jim


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## in_d_haus (Jan 2, 2002)

Good stuff (not great) high prices (ya pay for the name) My guess is that Dinan will become to BMW like AMG is to Merceded (company owned)

They are a nice tradeoff of performance and streetability. If you want true high performance look elsewhere.


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## dredmo (May 28, 2002)

yeah haus is right. They are average at best. Definate increases and gains, but high performance is better achieved through different companies. The good thing, dinan does not effect warranty. And have great reputation for all around effectivness. Mid level performance, maintains effeciency and reliability.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

gundamzaku said:


> *and since you did just got the new car, i assume that you do have bucks like the rest of these guys/gals here. *


Not really, I just prioritize my expenses, and one of the few things I really wanted was a car I'd love driving.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: good stuff.*



blackdawg said:


> *the suspension stuff is basic and really expensive, but it's guaranteed to fit, particularly the sway bars. it's well sorted out, but other options are just as good.*


Suggestions?


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

in_d_haus said:


> *Good stuff (not great) high prices (ya pay for the name) My guess is that Dinan will become to BMW like AMG is to Merceded (company owned)*


That would be what M already is, I'd say.


> *They are a nice tradeoff of performance and streetability. If you want true high performance look elsewhere. *


Such as?


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: DINAN.*



abqhudson said:


> *First rate stuff at first rate prices. None better.
> *


AC Schnitzer makes everything Dinan carries and better.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

dredmo said:


> *Definate increases and gains, but high performance is better achieved through different companies.*


Could you name them and their products?


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: DINAN.*



The HACK said:


> *AC Schnitzer makes everything Dinan carries and better. *


I'm confused, are you saying that Dinan products are re-packaged AC Schnitzer products, or that AC Schnitzer makes the same kinds of products but makes them better?

I've more than once heard that AC Schnitzer is WAY overpriced for what you end up getting. Thoughts?


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## dredmo (May 28, 2002)

buy from AC Schnitzer to get better performance, at the same and sometimes cheaper prices. They are competitive, but ACS is better. But not covered by warranty. It is a toss up. UUC makes good stuff. Really you should declare EXACTLY what you want, and what kind of gains you want, then go from there.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: DINAN.*



C-Bear said:


> *AC Schnitzer makes the same kinds of products but makes them better?*


AC Schnitzer makes the same kind of products, but make them MUCH better. AC Schnitzer and Schnitzer racing of the BMW Factory Team is owned by the same parent company, so a lot of Schnitzer Racing tested equipment gets trickled down to AC Schnitzer products.



> *
> I've more than once heard that AC Schnitzer is WAY overpriced for what you end up getting. Thoughts? *


You kinda/sorta do the same with Dinan product anyway. They're way overpriced for what you end up getting. :dunno:

I figured if you're going to be throwing money away, might as well throw money away the right way and get THE best money can buy. I'm sure Clem would agree with me here.


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## gundamzaku (Jan 25, 2002)

man, now i am convinced that dinan is the way to go after hearing all your comments. there goes my savings, what's left of it anyway...hehe


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

in_d_haus said:


> *Good stuff (not great) high prices (ya pay for the name) My guess is that Dinan will become to BMW like AMG is to Merceded (company owned)
> 
> They are a nice tradeoff of performance and streetability. If you want true high performance look elsewhere. *


why would BMW need to do this when they already have the M group?


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

the only item I'm really pleased with so far from Dinan is the suspension. though the rear shocks for our cars are custom speced by Dinan from koni, you can get koni shocks from tirerack (which I did for another car - non-bimmer). the springs and sways are made my another company but the question is by whom. it has been rumoured that the OEM supplier is eibach (which you can also get from tirerack). the Dinan supplied suspension has rubber bushings, which are really the best choice for street cars. other than how they package the suspension (with rubber bushings) and their fitment check (a double check really because the manufacturer presumably does this) and their warranty, there's little other value add that they provide to the suspension.

the Dinan software makes no HP for current models while software from other suppliers not only do everything that the Dinan software does but they make HP as well. Dinan shoots themselves in the foot with their software conservatism IMHO.

the CAI is a good design but bad for anyone in a flood risk area. only now that they're supplying aluminum tubes for their intakes has the price dropped. I think any half way creative person willing to do a little research can come up with their own CAI for a fraction of the price and with the same or better (thinking ITG here) air filter.

the muffler is an absolute rip off and I question how much R&D they really spent on it. first of all, our mufflers (at least on the 330's) are ALREADY a straight through design. there is little room left for improvement and my butt dyno confirmed this. the first thing to came to my mind when I first saw the muffler in person and actually MET the welder was... damn, the welding sucks. I purchased a FULL cat back systyem for one of my other cars. it has flanges, DUAL resonators, BETTER welds and it's polished (I personally don't care for polishing) and it was half the price. though it has been rumoured that they have changed their design, perhaps due to the stink I created, their original muffler for the 325/330 was literally a pair of unperforated straight pipes through a dummy can (eg. drill a hole in the can and you will NOT have an exhaust leak).

Dinan is a good company and they do have well made products.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*the Dinan differential....*

is not Dinan at all. it's simply an OEM BMW part from another E46. to the best of my knowledge, THERE IS NO value add when buying this part from Dinan (well, okay, perhaps warranty and some Dinan points to get a badge). you can very likely purchase the exact same thing from pacificbmw or circlebmw with no middleman.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: the Dinan differential....*



31st330i said:


> *is not Dinan at all. it's simply an OEM BMW part from another E46. to the best of my knowledge, THERE IS NO value add when buying this part from Dinan (well, okay, perhaps warranty and some Dinan points to get a badge). you can very likely purchase the exact same thing from pacificbmw or circlebmw with no middleman. *


They should offer a HQ LSD for that price :thumbdwn:


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



nate328Ci said:


> *They should offer a HQ LSD for that price :thumbdwn: *


agreed. a simple gear ratio change could actually be cheaper if you know how to work on differentials. if one were so inclined, I believe that only the ring and pinion need to be replaced along with perhaps a pinion crush tube versus the whole "pumpkin." furthermore, as the model ages, you should be able to find the *whole* assembly in a bone yard for less than what Dinan charges for just the pumpkin.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



31st330i said:


> *
> 
> agreed. a simple gear ratio change could actually be cheaper if you know how to work on differentials. if one were so inclined, I believe that only the ring and pinion need to be replaced along with perhaps a pinion crush tube versus the whole "pumpkin." furthermore, as the model ages, you should be able to find the *whole* assembly in a bone yard for less than what Dinan charges for just the pumpkin. *


Hiop-Tech makes a 45% Worm Gear LSD for that price, seems like a no brainer to me

Quafie doesn't make an E46 differential yet :thumbdwn:


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



nate328Ci said:


> *Hiop-Tech makes a 45% Worm Gear LSD for that price, seems like a no brainer to me *


I wonder if "worm gear LSD" is anything like the torsen differential available on the later miatas. looking at the below pic of the torsen, it looks to have worm gears as well. anyway, this is supposed to be a bullet proof design that never wears out, unlike clutch based or viscous coupled LSD units.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



31st330i said:


> *
> 
> I wonder if "worm gear LSD" is anything like the torsen differential available on the later miatas. looking at the below pic of the torsen, it looks to have worm gears as well. anyway, this is supposed to be a bullet proof design that never wears out, unlike clutch based or viscous coupled LSD units.
> 
> ...


http://www.hioprace-tec.com/anc/index.html

I have thier cataloge, but it does not show anything more than this


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



nate328Ci said:


> *I have thier cataloge, but it does not show anything more than this  *


I wonder why only 45% lockup, though. price?


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## JawKnee (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> http://www.hioprace-tec.com/anc/index.html
> 
> I have thier cataloge, but it does not show anything more than this  *


I called them today and they should be returning my call on Wednesday


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



31st330i said:


> *
> 
> I wonder why only 45% lockup, though. price? *


It is $1200, and I don't know why it is "only" 45% when the site says that Worm Gears are capable of 75%...

anyway, 45% is not bad


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: the Dinan differential....*



JawKnee said:


> *
> 
> I called them today and they should be returning my call on Wednesday  *


You better tell us


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

well, this whole excercise on the differential just goes to show you that there are indeed better parts for our BMWs than Dinan. the same can be said regarding any part that they offer for our cars IMHO except perhaps the transmission software. I define "better" as more return for your dollar in the form of more HP and better handling.

personally, I don't think it is the parts themselves that make Dinan so good, it's their "sell it through BMW dealers" strategy and of course lots of marketing. you pay big time for the convenience that Dinan offers.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *well, this whole excercise on the differential just goes to show you that there are indeed better parts for our BMWs than Dinan. the same can be said regarding any part that they offer for our cars IMHO except perhaps the transmission software. I define "better" as more return for your dollar in the form of more HP and better handling.
> 
> personally, I don't think it is the parts themselves that make Dinan so good, it's their "sell it through BMW dealers" strategy and of course lots of marketing. you pay big time for the convenience that Dinan offers. *


I have been pleased with my software and CF intake so far. You are right, they do milk the relationship by charging a lot of cash. The suspension seems excellent though :dunno:


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *I have been pleased with my software and CF intake so far. You are right, they do milk the relationship by charging a lot of cash. The suspension seems excellent though :dunno: *


yes, if I could get by the whole K&N thing, they do have a nice design for the CAI but it has already been coppied and is now available for less. then there are the ECIS and conforti intakes. I don't think that anyone has done a more recent shootour of all the CAIs presently available for the E46 and it is generally believed that they all make the same amount of HP. therefore, no real value add for Dinan other than warranty.

yes the suspension is indeed nice. I like mine as well. I'm not sure how much R&D really went into the suspension now that I think about it. the spring rates are only increase slightly over stock aport package as are the sway bar sizes. the shocks damping are matched to the springs. so how hard would it be (aside from working with fabricators on fit, finish, price etc.) to come up with a suspension? I mean really..... it wouldn't be hard to blindly up the spring rate and sway bar diameter by 5% or so and expect good results. I'm not saying that they do this, just that it's possible and not out of the question.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> yes, if I could get by the whole K&N thing, they do have a nice design for the CAI but it has already been coppied and is now available for less. then there are the ECIS and conforti intakes. I don't think that anyone has done a more recent shootour of all the CAIs presently available for the E46 and it is generally believed that they all make the same amount of HP. therefore, no real value add for Dinan other than warranty.
> 
> yes the suspension is indeed nice. I like mine as well. I'm not sure how much R&D really went into the suspension now that I think about it. the spring rates are only increase slightly over stock aport package as are the sway bar sizes. the shocks damping are matched to the springs. so how hard would it be (aside from working with fabricators on fit, finish, price etc.) to come up with a suspension? I mean really..... it wouldn't be hard to blindly up the spring rate and sway bar diameter by 5% or so and expect good results. I'm not saying that they do this, just that it's possible and not out of the question. *


I am not familiar with how much R&D went into the suspension, I have read reports of talks with Steve Dinan about his suspesnion kits on cca websites and he seems to really know his stuff. You would know more about the development than me.

As for the intake, I like the closed design of the Dinan intake; it also seems to be of higher quality than the others. My CF seems to have great build quality and fitment (light too! ) I was going to get the ECIS and save some money, but Vince's post describing the heat soak resistance of different materials sold me that I should get one of the last CF units remaining. It should last forever, so I wasn't to concerned with the intial price that much considering the quailty and the slight advantage that I believe it has. I will also replace the filter, rather than risk an over-oiling.

Also, for the K&N thing, I was searching the archives and found this old post http://bimmer.roadfly.org/3series/messages/archive/msgsy1999w38/59511.html

This post tiped me to the Dinan CF

http://www.e46fanatics.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=112144&t=112144


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *I am not familiar with how much R&D went into the suspension, I have read reports of talks with Steve Dinan about his suspesnion kits on cca websites and he seems to really know his stuff. You would know more about the development than me.
> 
> As for the intake, I like the closed design of the Dinan intake; it also seems to be of higher quality than the others. My CF seems to have great build quality and fitment (light too! ) I was going to get the ECIS and save some money, but Vince's post describing the heat soak resistance of different materials sold me that I should get one of the last CF units remaining. It should last forever, so I wasn't to concerned with the intial price that much considering the quailty and the slight advantage that I believe it has. I will also replace the filter, rather than risk an over-oiling.
> 
> ...


I'm not familiar with how Dinan designed the suspension either but yes, Stevie D does know his stuff. he's a pretty nice person as well.

I saw their shop, though and the only suspension related tool I saw was their (very old looking) shock bounce/rebound checker. I don;t thin kthat they're well equipted to be designing suspension components other than working with an OEM supplier and checking for proper fit. most of what I saw them do involved nothing more complicated than a measuring tape.

well, if you read that thread on the K&N thing, you'll see this post:
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/3series/messages/archive/msgsy1999w38/60083.html

furthermore, until I see a test on the K&N filters like the new york taxi cab oil test, I'll remain a skeptic. for the record, I do have a K&N on the Miata. but then again, I'm just looking for an excuse to pull the head for a good shaving (raise the compression). 

vince certainly has an engineering advantage over me but I see flaws in his theory (and I don't think he actually proved any of this):

point 1:
the point on air pressure is accurate but the Dinan filter fits inside of a different cavity. last time I looked at my car, I remember seing that the cavity is for the most part blocked off from the kidney grill cavity so unless you have a bumper with an opening at that spot or the sport package with diesel ducts fitted, there is no probably little to no pressure there. then again, the diesel duct/fog light area is also high pressure (I read the same article that Vince did - he sent it to me), so installing a diesel duct or otherwise opening that part of the bumper would do what Vince describes. furthermore, while he might be correct in theory about all of this pressure loss stuff, is it even enough to make a difference? wasn't it fairly recently argued that this whole ram air thing from the 1970's was developed in the marketing department and not the engineering department? I saw it posted somewhere that not only is it hard to measure (and therefore disprove the empty claims) that even if you could create 1PSI of boost that it wasn't enough to matter anyway. I think it was stated that one had to drive really fast (maybe like 150+MPH) to even get 1PSI.

point 2:
negated by flaw in by point 1.

point 3:
negated by flaw in by point 1.

point 6:
yeah, okay but does it actually matter? can the effect be measured on our cars (he may have later measured the IAT using OBD2 software - I don't recall, though)? even if a difference in IAT could be measured is it enough to make or loose 1HP? yes, the underhood temps can get pretty hot but remember that the exhaust is on the other side of the bay.

heat soak affects all intakes. in car speak, the term refers to heat soaking in after shutting off a hot engine. you see the results of this for the first few minutes after driving the car again (after the heat soak). once air starts flowing through the intake and engine compartment again, the temps go back down.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

what someone really needs to do is flow bench the entire intake tract and figure out what the most restrictive pieces are and come up with replacements for those. this would of course have to be compared to the maximum CFM of the engine in question at red line.

I *might* still come up with my own DIY CAI inolving easy to acquire parts and an ITG air filter (which has a nice built in velocity stack).


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## blackdawg (Jan 4, 2002)

*the biggest advantage....*

...is that dealer service bays are less likely to give you a strange look if you drive in with a dinan equipped car.

for many people, it's worth the money right there.

a lot of the uucmotorwerks parts and ECIS stuff, even jim conforti, a lot of dealers are unfamiliar with it and will hassle you to the point of it not being owrth your time almost, if you have those parts on your car.

all 3 dealers in st.louis have no problem with dinan modified cars and covering warranty claims. want to try that with any other tuner parts? good luck. that's all i have to add on this thread. it's soemthing to think about. until the dealers get more educated (get real), dinan has this trump card.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: the biggest advantage....*



blackdawg said:


> *...is that dealer service bays are less likely to give you a strange look if you drive in with a dinan equipped car.
> 
> for many people, it's worth the money right there.
> 
> ...


NONE of the dealers I've ever been to ever hassled me about ANY of my aftermarket mods. If they hassle you then they're not worth going to. One of my service advisor even commented how nice the UUC sways and short shift kit felt as he was writing up the ticket to do some warranty work. The only time I had any problem was during Inspection I, they did not flush the brake fluid because I have ATE superblue in.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I'd bet that the "worm gear" differential is actually a Torsen. The Torsen design employs a worm gear. Check this out:
http://www.amghummer.com/features/Torsen/Work/torsen_works.htm


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: the biggest advantage....*



blackdawg said:


> *...is that dealer service bays are less likely to give you a strange look if you drive in with a dinan equipped car. *


yes, I've made that point myself. but the problem is that not all BMW dealers are also Dinan dealers and most of us will get the strange looks anyway. funny looks aren't enough to deny a warranty claim, though. they have to repair your car and the burdon of proof of cause is on the tech/dealer/BMWNA. check out the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. it's not a matter of getting funny looks or even denied service. it's really the convenience of one stop shopping.

I think most people know enough about their cars and the modifications that were performed on them that they know what to suspect in case of a problem. I'm sure that there is a precentage of us who would just buy all of the Dinan stuff just because it's "better" than stock and can do it through the dealer and finance it all. I say let them buy it and pay the price.

here's a quote from a respected aftermarket vendor that isn't Dinan:
_"I can honestly say we've never had a SINGLE report of a SINGLE customer being denied any warranty because of our software/intakes/etc."_


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

robg said:


> *I'd bet that the "worm gear" differential is actually a Torsen. The Torsen design employs a worm gear. Check this out:
> http://www.amghummer.com/features/Torsen/Work/torsen_works.htm *


that's what I suspected earlier in the thread.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> that's what I suspected earlier in the thread. *


Ah, so this looks pretty good from a durability standpoint. It does have a 2 year warranty anyway


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *Ah, so this looks pretty good from a durability standpoint. It does have a 2 year warranty anyway  *


ah! so did the fact that it came stock on a miata throw you? hahahhahahahahhahahahaha


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> ah! so did the fact that it came stock on a miata throw you? hahahhahahahahhahahahaha *


Not really :dunno:

I would rather have the M3's M-Lock differential than any that I can think of...


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *I would rather have the M3's M-Lock differential than any that I can think of... *


don't know anything about it. what is special about it?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> don't know anything about it. what is special about it? *












It is essentially a 100% LSD


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:



> *It is essentially a 100% LSD *


and the torsen isn't? :dunno:

from the picture, thtat looks like a simply clutch plate style limited slip. if I'm not mistaken, GM originally designed that one. mazda was using it in RX-7's from 1981-1988. they switched to a lame viscous coupling design then to the torsen (I believe) when the 3rd gen came out.

here's a pic. I know you can't see the clutch plates inside but they're there. I've seen them up close and personal many times.










anyway, clutch plates DO WEAR OUT over time. the cool thing (at least on the RX-7s), though is that another clutch plate or two can be added and the material can be changed to increase performance.

my point is that I see nothing special about the M diff other than it's a limited slip. given a choice, you should go with the first one you mentioned.


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

Aye, I see why Nate asked me about the results from the test. 

Yes, I used my engineering knowledge and observation to choose the CAI in the market I think works best for my car. Sorry, to me ECIS and Comforti CAI don't do much at all. I know pple will probably flame me for this. But the lack of cold air and pressure prior to the intake in the ECIS and Comforti designs bug me til this very day. Carbon Fibre is not for show. I am too lazy to dig out the thermal conductivity of CF vs other materials. CF is used for precision telescopic device such as this Maksutov-Cassegrain optical system.(http://www.burnettweb.com/ite/custom-cass.htm).

This is Dinan's design: Draw cold, hi-pressure air and protect the temperature/pressure quality all the way to the intake.

This is ECIS/Comforti design: Create a shorter passage and draw air from all possible sources.

Dinan's CAI is not the PERFECT design. I agree there are improvements to be made. The use of Venturi effect can be included in the tube design. A smoother interior CF walls will be better in reducing eddy currents. For ECIS, optimality can be achieved by removing the driver's headlight assembly, thus allowing air to rush directly at the filter. Turner did that for his team of E36 race cars.

Here's the deal about Dinan (sorry C-Bear that we hijacked your thread). The idea of drawing air from below the bumper is not costly, but the design and fabrication processes are. It's almost like saying "Gosh! What's the big deal about Jackson Pollack's splashes on a canvas? My kid can do better!" But hey, he came out with the idea FIRST and whoosh, he manufactured it FIRST. Take a good look at that Dinan CF tube. Fabricating CF is hell of a manufacturing process (no, I don't mean covering trim pieces with CF sheets), let alone fabricating an unusual shape. So Dinan charges $499.00 for the tube. From my perspective, they produced this first and that I am willing to pay for their design work. Simply because I believe their work is worth this price. Doesn't mean I am willing to pay the dealer a 3.5hr labour. So what if someone comes along with a similar product at half the cost? It's a copy and I don't honor replicas.

Personally, none of my ALPINA accessories is worth paying for. But they are the only BMW approved remanufacturer, they have attained a status with BMW that other tuners would die for. Now, put a price on that.

At the end of the day, if you think the product is worth paying for, then go for it. The only way for Dinan to drop its prices is to have another competitor that BMWNA favours working together too. Quite like for ALPINA to be less snobbish is have BMW AG looking for another remanufacturer.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

VinceTopasBlau3 said:


> *(sorry C-Bear that we hijacked your thread).*


No complaints, I'm fascinated by all of this and welcome more.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

VinceTopasBlau3 said:


> *Sorry, to me ECIS and Comforti CAI don't do much at all. But the lack of cold air and pressure prior to the intake in the ECIS and Comforti designs bug me til this very day.
> 
> This is Dinan's design: Draw cold, hi-pressure air and protect the temperature/pressure quality all the way to the intake.
> 
> This is ECIS/Comforti design: Create a shorter passage and draw air from all possible sources.*


it's generally accepted (and was even proven on an E36) that all of the CAI designs make about the same HP (within 1 or so, no?). I have always agreed with all of the theories regarding materials, pressure, flow etc. the problem is that nobody has actually PROVED that the Dinan CAI (specifically the filter) indeed does reside in a high pressure area unless the bumper has been modified (and even the latter hasn't been actually PROVEN and the results made available). it is in a separate cavity than the kidney grilles. your theory and conclusion are flawed (at least for most of the CAI buying public with stock bumpers). in fact, the cavity where the Dinan air filter would reside is open on top (unless the Dinan is installed, which blocks it off) and that SAME pressure would flow up into the ECIS/Conforti cavity, would it not? furthermore, has it not been argued by YOU that the air closer to the road is actually hotter than the air 18"+ above the road surface? not that I'm defending the ECIS design (I'd personally never buy one for various reasons) but cold air is indeed routed to the air filter via the original airbox ducts as well as from behind the headlamp by way of the kidney grilles.

I never did understand your posts on this subject. there is a lot of cool engineering propeller head meat to sink one's teeth into but no reality fortified bone to make that theory stand up.


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## RichNY (Jan 19, 2002)

*Great thread...*

I agree...great thread and thanks to all of those MUCH more knowledgable than I for keeping it going. GREAT reading!!!


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## blackdawg (Jan 4, 2002)

*ah, the CAI thing.*

am sure there is an element to it which makes it work.

however, i find that the added security of the OEM design on torrential rain days more assuring than some more HP.

and it is definitely a transient gain. heat soak and so forth mitigate these things after awhile.

i'm a firm believer in mechanical gains which are irrefutable under any condition such as weight reduction (wheels, flywheel, anyone?). if you compare the newere E46 design, it is a cold air intake already with a snorkel right behind the kidney grille. e36s did not have this. and the only e36 that did were the e36/7 and e36/8 and the all z3s got it, i think.

now all bmws have it.

so, am not sure it's worth it to do this anymore. would save my money for brakes and suspension stuff. HP for the curves.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: ah, the CAI thing.*



blackdawg said:


> * if you compare the newere E46 design, it is a cold air intake already with a snorkel right behind the kidney grille. *


I've posted this myself numerous times. I had farted around with some ideas of improving the flow of the stock box but ran out of time and ambition. there is a noticible difference when a CAI is installed (I had a Dinan - developed on my car- and am now back to stock). the difference is on the top end and is indeed noticible. I probably will never go back to an aftermarket CAI but may tweak the stock air box in some way to improve flow. this may mean replacing it completely with an M3 air box if I can get aruond the MAS differences.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: DINAN.*



The HACK said:


> *AC Schnitzer makes the same kind of products, but make them MUCH better. AC Schnitzer and Schnitzer racing of the BMW Factory Team is owned by the same parent company, so a lot of Schnitzer Racing tested equipment gets trickled down to AC Schnitzer products.*


I suppose I am most interested in eventually improving overall handling, which means I should be looking into suspension components (besides, from the info in this thread, sounds like CAI's and S/W - at least until Conforti comes out with his - should be on the back-burner).

Dinan's suspension's seem to be getting the best response of all their products. I did check out AC Schnitzer's site but was disappointed to find that it lacked specifics on the suspension systems offered, i.e., pieces, suggested applications, prices, etc.

Can ypu point me in a good direction?


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DINAN.*



C-Bear said:


> *Dinan's suspension's seem to be getting the best response of all their products. I did check out AC Schnitzer's site but was disappointed to find that it lacked specifics on the suspension systems offered, i.e., pieces, suggested applications, prices, etc.*


Dinan's suspension is indeed good but very expensive. you can likely duplicate it piecemeal from tirerack for less. eibacj springs and sway bars plus koni shocks are $1,197.18 delivered. compare that to a Dinan stage 2 (sways, springs & shocks) at $1,857 + delivery and/or tax.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

BTW, the eibach springs will lower your car ~1"+ and the Dinan won't (the Dinan lowered my 330 with sport package ~1/8" F&R)

you might even opt for just the koni shocks and some sway bars like UUC (leaving the stock springs in place). it would be less money overall and make a definite improvement. this is exactly what I did on my miata (koni shocks from tire rack + way bars from flyingmiata.com) and am not at all disappointed.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DINAN.*



31st330i said:


> *
> 
> Dinan's suspension is indeed good but very expensive. you can likely duplicate it piecemeal from tirerack for less. eibacj springs and sway bars plus koni shocks are $1,197.18 delivered. compare that to a Dinan stage 2 (sways, springs & shocks) at $1,857 + delivery and/or tax. *


How would you rate that set-up against, say, a set of UUC sways, Bilstein sports, and Eibach Pro-Lines?

Anything else you would suggest looking into?


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## abqhudson (Dec 22, 2001)

*DINAN again.*

You might not want to excessively lower your e46 as there is very little clearance in the rear. I'm having trouble - Clunking (sometimes a hard rap) intermittantly - and with TC Kline Trackline (Koni's & H&R Sport springs) and RD sways, everyone is pointing the finger at someone else. TC Kline says it's the H&R springs and H&R says that it's the sways. I'm caught in the middle and it's getting expensive. TC Kline first sent me the H&R springs for the 328i sedan #29485 - but - the 328i sedan with sport suspension requires the coupe springs #29484. The first installation and alignment was $427.00 down the drain and TC Kline felt no responsibility to help with the removal of the incorrect springs and reinstallation and alignment for the correct springs. I could have saved myself $ and trouble by going with a matched set of DINAN components - and no finger pointing. Maybe with a little more clearance there would be no problem. Just my 2 cents and remember YMMV.

Jim


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

I have to agree with respect to NOT lowering the car too much. while dinan was developing the 330 suspension stuff on mycar, they started out with 328 springs up front which caused the car to be slightly lowered in the front. it was a nightmare being careful to not scrape the undercarriage. it wasn't lowered very much either, perhaps less than an inch, but it sure made an impact on how careful I had to be. as it is, I have to be careful of the sport package air dam. lowering? no thanks (not on that car, anyway). I'd hate to see the underside of the car from one of the "fanatics."


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