# Throttle response comparison between 323i and a newer 330ci



## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

I had the opportunity to drive a friends 330ci and a 323i.

I was amazed by the difference, the 323i actually had a _better_ throttle response than the 330ci. I was really amazed. I figure that the difference was between the Drive by wire on the 330ci and the mechanical throttle on the 323i.

What's up with that? I haven't actually tried going back and forth a couple of times to get some confirmation but the difference was clearly noticable.

When I went to testdrive the 330i I didn't notice this, but then I wasn't pushing the car and I guess was just overly awed by the whole driving experience to even notice.

Can anyone provide some thoughts on this? Perhaps it's been beaten to death already :dunno:

Z


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## 3seriesbimmer (Jun 20, 2002)

BMW doesn't seem to have the DBW down pat.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm curious as to why they switched to it if it's really so bad?

Also, is this what I have to look forward to in my 330? Or has there been some improvement over the past couple of years on the DBW system?

Z


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

mecklaiz said:


> *I'm curious as to why they switched to it if it's really so bad?
> 
> Also, is this what I have to look forward to in my 330? Or has there been some improvement over the past couple of years on the DBW system?
> 
> Z *


DBW has been discussed and debated more than you can imagine. Do an archive search for DBW and you'll see what I mean. The consensus is that yes, the older non-DBW 323 and 328s have better throttle response than the DBW cars. Some believe that BMW did make improvements to the responsiveness of the DBW system during 2002-- but if so, its pretty minor. If you noticed the lag in the 330 you drove, then yes, that is probably what you're going to be experiencing in your 330.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

rumatt said:


> *So why is it that BMW doesn't offer the equivalent of the steering retrofit? *


because I am guessing that a DBW retrofit would not be as easy as the steering retrofit. (and not cheap)

The DBW is not a stand-alone modul that you can just swap. Along with it you'll need to change the whole DME, throttle body, butterfly plates etc. and the relating systems.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

:thumbdwn: 


My professional opinion is that it sucks. It's amazing that the throttle on my Galant has more responsiveness.

Oh well, I guess I'd better get over it. Only 3 weeks to delivery.

Z


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Hey Z,

cheer up, I'm waiting for June as well  :bigpimp:


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Yes Alex,

Although there's a minor difference between what you are picking up and what I'm picking up. But to each their own. I'm sure I'll be as excited as you will be.

:thumbup:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

mecklaiz said:


> *Yes Alex,
> 
> Although there's a minor difference between what you are picking up and what I'm picking up. But to each their own. I'm sure I'll be as excited as you will be.
> 
> :thumbup: *


:thumbup:

In each case, a party and a long break-in period is in


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

FYI, most planes have DBWs. As the system becomes more complex, it's inevitable not to go DBWed.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Oh Yeah!!!!

 :thumbup:  :beerchug: :smokin: :sabrina: :supdude: :grouphug: :clap: :banana:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

mecklaiz - what year was the 330Ci you drove . . . I notice a BIG difference between my old 2001 330Ci and my current 2003 330i

In 2002 they made the DBW more responsive and it was a noticable improvement

Plus I've driven the 323i many times and I could never stand that gas pedal . . . the pedal is heavy, dead feeling and was too linear for me, you have to keep pushing it down to get the engine to repond . . . 

I remember having a 323i loaner and then giving it back to the dealer only to get a 2002 525i loaner . .. the DBW made the 525 *feel* a lot faster then the 323i and it was mostly due to the lightness of the pedal due to the DBW

Don't sweat it, your gonna love it !!


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## AEC (Jan 19, 2003)

FWIW, my 2003 330 has no better or worse throttle response than my my previous car, a 2000 VW Passat. However, I believe the Passat had DBW also.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Hey AF, I don't know what year the car was, it was a loaner so I don't have too many details. However, it was a couple of years old I would imagine so it's probably a 2001 at least.

I glad to hear that the new 330's have an improved DBW system  

Z


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

rumatt said:


> *So you don't find any lag in your current car, or just not as bad as '01? *


I really didn't find the throttle response 'bad' in my 01 but when I had an 02 loaner, I noticed it was considerably quicker to respond which then made me realize my car did have a delay.

My 01 was a step, DBW and step workout to be a great combo . .. all the dbw complaints back then were from manual owners . . .

My 03 is a manual and I don't notice it . . .


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## Nixlimited (Feb 28, 2003)

mecklaiz said:


> *I'm curious as to why they switched to it if it's really so bad?
> 
> Also, is this what I have to look forward to in my 330? Or has there been some improvement over the past couple of years on the DBW system?
> 
> Z *


I think the reason for DBW is that it lets the computer control the throttle for things like DSC. If it was a direct connection, I am not sure how it would control the throttle. It also gives the nice ability to run two different throttle maps (for M3 owners at least). I cannot tell you how much I enjoy the fact that when the weather is bad I turn Sport mode off and the car is much more docile, but when the sun comes out and it's time to burn some rubber, well Sport is back on. Great idea IMO.


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## dcar330i (May 2, 2003)

DBW on my 330 mfg'd in 6/02 is outstanding. No Lag. The system makes the car extremely driveable in 1st in parking lots, etc. - very smooth,,,:bigpimp:


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## PABS (Apr 3, 2003)

I had the Dinan S1 software installed in my MY01 330ci/5spd.

This gave the DBW a completely different personality. Although it is still difficult to do a proper 1-2 shift (I believe this is more due to the clutch) the response is greatly increased.

What I feel is that the throttle is touchier rather faster. What I mean is that the revs go up and down quicker.

My guess is that butterfly opens and closes faster. You might think that means that the lag is less but the butt dyno has a different view on this. (I believe this is the DSC intruding)

One thing that is very interesting is that keeping the pedal in one position after shifting in to second, the revs continue to climb with out any further pedal depression. 

Boittom line is the engine is much more responsive.


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## Mashuri (Aug 14, 2002)

Yes, you're feeling the DBW and, quite frankly, it sucks. My 2003 has way too much lag and I can't drive it properly as a result. I have to spend too much of my attention at guessing my heel-toe shifts and mid-corner response. I had a 2000 Corvette Convertible with a perfect DBW system, so it can be done right. BMW just needs to hire some of GM's engineers I guess.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Mashuri said:


> *Yes, you're feeling the DBW and, quite frankly, it sucks. My 2003 has way too much lag and I can't drive it properly as a result. I have to spend too much of my attention at guessing my heel-toe shifts and mid-corner response. I had a 2000 Corvette Convertible with a perfect DBW system, so it can be done right. BMW just needs to hire some of GM's engineers I guess. *


Agreed... I've tried to compensate for the DBW lag too... but it really throws me off... I rarely do heel-toe now for that exact reason... where that was something I used to do almost all the time....

anyone from BMW listening here?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

mecklaiz said:


> *That's solid advice, I think I'll take it. I'm glad for all your thoughts on this matter though. I also glad for this forum.
> 
> Now if I can only convince my wife to let me pick up the car sooner
> 
> ...


:bigpimp:

Hey, let us know how your experience is with your car. Congrats! :thumbup:


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Thanks a bunch, I'm counting the days (18).

Z


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

mbr129 said:


> *Now, I have heard that the ZHP is more responsive than other 330's because of the reprogrammed computer, etc. *


Huh ? ? I never heard or read this . . .

For the record my 03 330i has no noticable delay and today I was playing around with it just because of this thread and still say it is very responsive !!!


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *I didn't want to muddy my earlier response in this thread, but the intrusive DSC, the numb clutch, and the numb steering were the rest of the reasons I dumped my 330i. The DSC seemed to trigger at the slightest hint of slippage and clamped down. It was EXTREMELY intrusive. *


All you had to do was put some decent tires on your 330 and it could have fixed the intrusive DSC and the numb steering . . .

The Conti's KILL the steering feel and constantly activate that damn DSC. My car with the Nitto's and the SO3's was MUCH better . . . I hate these damn conti's which is why I am glad that as of Friday I will hopefully have Yokohama ES100's on my car with of course some sweet 18" Wheels :thumbup:

I am going to waste the Sh*t out of the Conti's on the track though !!


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## Guest (May 28, 2003)

AF330i said:


> *All you had to do was put some decent tires on your 330 and it could have fixed the intrusive DSC and the numb steering . . .
> 
> The Conti's KILL the steering feel and constantly activate that damn DSC. My car with the Nitto's and the SO3's was MUCH better . . . I hate these damn conti's which is why I am glad that as of Friday I will hopefully have Yokohama ES100's on my car with of course some sweet 18" Wheels :thumbup:
> 
> I am going to waste the Sh*t out of the Conti's on the track though !! *


I hate to blow your theory, but my 330i had Pilot Sports on it from the day I got it until the day I blissfully said goodbye.

It was my M3/4 that came with Contis. And I ditched them after only ~7K miles for S-03s.

I swear, Alan. It's like you're in denial. Digging for excuses... :AF330i:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *I hate to blow your theory, but my 330i had Pilot Sports on it from the day I got it until the day I blissfully said goodbye.
> 
> It was my M3/4 that came with Contis. And I ditched them after only ~7K miles for S-03s.
> 
> I swear, Alan. It's like you're in denial. Digging for excuses... :AF330i: *


Damn . . . here I am egging you on and you got me good :bareass:


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## Guest (May 28, 2003)

AF330i said:


> *Damn . . . here I am egging you on and you got me good :bareass:  *


I dug around my pics and found this one that shows the distinctive Pilot Sport tread pattern.










Sorry Alan. :stickpoke :neener:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

That is clearly a photoshop job :stickpoke


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