# 2209 335d Clogged Intake Carbon



## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Just bought a 2009 335d, with 76K on it. Had it checked out, although not as thoroughly as I should have, less than 24 hours of owning it, the reduced engine power icon came on, putting it in limp mode. I ended up taking it to the dealership and it seems the Intake is clogged with carbon, and perhaps the Cylinder Head. Any way to clean the intake without replacing it? Any ideas where to get a new Intake inexpensively? The cost from the dealership is $1,200+ total installed $1,800+, if the Cylinder Head has carbon it will have to be pulled and dipped $4000+ ($3,000 labor). Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!!


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

If you search the boards you will find plenty on this topic. Unfortunately think you just found out why the car was sold. Carbon build-up seems to have been a problem with the 335D on cars that accumulated a lot of miles before all the EGR and programming updates were applied in late 2011 and 2012. 

The intake which is plastic costs around $800 to just buy another one. But as you seem to know, the head most likely needs to be cleaned as well. While there are in-place walnut blasting processes for gasoline engines, the diesel has dual intake paths, one being very convoluted that does not seem to allow in-place cleaning, requiring removal. I am hoping that at some point an in place head cleaning process will be developed, but has not happened so far.

Is there any recourse to go back to the seller and say split the cost? If private I'd bet they knew about the issue. Just to bring you up to speed part of the issue is due to such a high diesel power to weight ratio (which is exactly why we love this car). The same engine in the X5 had to work harder and does not seem to have as much carbon issue as in the car. There also seems to be some evidence (not confirmed) that those who drive the car hard, do not have carbon issues (high velocity in the intake system sweeps the path clean?)


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

#1 carbon buildup is normal for diesel engines. Some have it worse than others. 

#2 Lubro Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner may help, but it's for preventative maintenance. 

#3 Apparently it's the intake ports, not the intake runners/EGR, which develop carbon buildup up (I wonder if the swirl flaps are the cause), could also be on the exhaust side as well.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

The dealer has quoted $1800 on replacing the Intake, and $4000 on pulling the head and dipping it. On another post someone posted a link to the e90/e92 forums and it looks like at least one person maybe more have had luck in getting BMW to absorb some of the cost in doing this, as I'm not the only person I'm now finding out that has run into this problem. I'm just the first that ran into it less than 24 hours of purchasing a used 2009 335d!!


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> #1 carbon buildup is normal for diesel engines. Some have it worse than others.
> 
> #2 Lubro Moly Pro Line Diesel Intake Cleaner may help, but it's for preventative maintenance.
> 
> #3 Apparently it's the intake ports, not the intake runners/EGR, which develop carbon buildup up (I wonder if the swirl flaps are the cause), could also be on the exhaust side as well.


Do you know of an EGR Delete to get around this for the future, similar to the VW TDI's? Thank you.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Any ideas besides the dealer, that I could take the car to, that wouldn't be as expensive (labor & parts rate) as the dealer, in Ohio, Kentucky or Indiana?


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Unfortunately this is complex enough that it really does need to be done at a dealer. The diesels have not been out there long enough for build up experience at independent shops to do this type of work. Guess we are spoiled here in the NE. Here in NJ there are at least 8 BMW dealers within a 1 hour drive of my house.


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your situation. Typically, intake becoming clogged doesn't happen overnight, so I'm guessing the previous owner knew about it. Maybe it's worth trying an injector purge. It doesn't cost a lot, and you can do it yourself. Worth a shot before spending thousands on part removal and cleaning.

http://www.liqui-moly.com.au/diy-diesel-injector-service/

Of course maybe this is what the prior owner tried.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

moejav said:


> The dealer has quoted $1800 on replacing the Intake, and $4000 on pulling the head and dipping it. On another post someone posted a link to the e90/e92 forums and it looks like at least one person maybe more have had luck in getting BMW to absorb some of the cost in doing this, as I'm not the only person I'm now finding out that has run into this problem. I'm just the first that ran into it less than 24 hours of purchasing a used 2009 335d!!


Link


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## kadave (May 29, 2013)

moejav - 

So sorry to hear about the issue! What a nightmare. Confident the seller knew something. I just bought my 2009 335d last week (80k miles) and this thread scares the crap out of me. 

I will try all the preventative stuff discussed here and hope the conversation continues. Please keep us all updated on how things work out. I hope you find alternate solutions. 

I'm in the Akron-Cleveland Ohio area if you ever want to meet up with the Ds. 

kadave


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

who checked it out. If a BMW place, good bet a code would have come up if the previous owner had a problem. No code than
that owner would not have known. 

It could have been just good timing for the seller, maybe they had a gut feeling, reading these forum and thought this baby has to go. 
Sort of buyer beware on used cars, appliances, electronics, anything. On big ticket items i try to buy new if can. 
BMW seems to have been great to step up and help on these extremely high
mileage cars that have a problem. 

I have sold cars to friends (lol not good), they rode in the car allot. Than within hours of buying it something happen. 
I go what did you do, you were just in the car. Could it be a new driving habit, just shocks the system right off. 
A BMW salesman told me a BMW learns its owner, than a new driver complains, the car
has to relearn the new new drivers habit ?????????? anyone else heard this.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

I'd say the last owner most likely cleared all fault codes before unloading the car.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

txagbmw said:


> BMW seems to have been great to step up and help on these extremely high
> mileage cars that have a problem. .


76k miles is about 200k from being extremely high mileage.


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## 135i_vs_ (Apr 13, 2013)

My recommendation:

#1. Contact the seller! If dealer, you should be under lemon law. If private owner, shame on them, at least you know where they live. Unless they disclosed to you and sold the car cheap.
#2 contact BMW NA, just maybe they may decide to help if the dealer can pursue it as premature failure. I'd be surprised if previous owner didn't try this, should have record via vin#.

Regardless, this will be expensive and only bmw can really fix this, as lots of reprogramming will be required after repair. I would only stick with the BMW dealers for this car.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

I bought the car from a used car dealer. I took it over to a buddy whose a mechanic, he has a scan tool and has done general maintenance on later model BMW's. After he scanned and looked up the codes he told me I should take to a dealer, initially when he checked out the car he didn't see any codes etc... of course the dealer I bought it from probably has a scan tool and could have erased any codes and the car would have run with out SES or reduced engine power icon appearing for at least 1 or 2 starts, after being cleared. Most of the service records on file with BMW were performed at www.evansmotorworks.com the last being in January 2013, the dealer I took it to pointed that out and said they (the dealer I bought it from, who bought it at auction) should have known. The dealer I bought it from says they purchased the car in May 2013, almost 10k miles were put on between 01/2013 and 05/2013 since the dealer I bought it from says they only drove it maybe 20 miles while they owned it. The used car dealer says that they will pay for they're mechanic shop www.foreignx.com to replace the intake. I think I would prefer to take the $1000 or so they're willing to cough up, hope that BMW NA might step in and help as well. Hope and pray!! Thank you for all the input, I appreciate it.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

GreekboyD said:


> I'd say the last owner most likely cleared all fault codes before unloading the car.


Probably, but can't prove it


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

My D had the same issues after 65,000 Miles (105,000 KM).
On top of that an injector failed and the DDE also had to be replaced to finally fix the SES.

BMW stepped up and paid most of the costs while I paid $3,800.00.

The total costs would have been over $13,000.00 to fix.

Unfortunately no Indy shop can do this job so you're at the mercy of the BMW dealer unless you have extended warranty or CPO.

After my D was finally fixed the shop foreman told me I will likely need to have the carbon buildup cleaned after another 50~60K miles.

I have since traded in my D for a 2013 E35BT.

Here's a link to my 335D issues FYI.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

DC-IT said:


> My D had the same issues after 65,000 Miles (105,000 KM).
> On top of that an injector failed and the DDE also had to be replaced to finally fix the SES.
> 
> BMW stepped up and paid most of the costs while I paid $3,800.00.
> ...


Thanks for the information. I'm hoping once I get it fixed to find some sort of EGR delete kit similar to the offerings for the VW TDI's


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

Hoooper said:


> 76k miles is about 200k from being extremely high mileage.


I seldom get over 20K on a car before a trade. So 76K is extremely high miles. My 
last 2010 335i just traded had 11k. The 13 x5d will be traded after the warranty is
gone. On a high end car running without one is risky. I got the diesel just to see
if would like one. But will probably go back to gas since just around town driving.

I traded the 335i early because liked the looks of the E70 better than the F15. In
4 years they might do some thing to the F15 that like and stay with bmw vs going
to range rover.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

txagbmw said:


> I seldom get over 20K on a car before a trade.


That certainly is the other end of the spectrum. We have 3 BMWs in the family, E46 328i bought new, now with 165K miles, E39 540iT bought very used now with 150K miles, and 35K on the 335D, not even broken in. So far the only BIG surprise of the 3 cars was the trans on the 540 which cost $5K to rebuild.

Everyone does their own analysis but we're just trading deprecation for the cost of maintenance. New BMWs are getting pretty expensive these days....


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

I am going to start using diesel fuel additive -- Opti-lube summer+ blend to prevent build-up. We don't have any premium diesel around these parts, just the 40 cetane min.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Still waiting to hear back from BMW NA, but did get the bmw dealer to lower there labor rate to $145, and give me the dealership's (that I bought the car from) discount (25%) on the parts. The cost to do replace the intake went from $1,840 to $1,154 and took the cost of removing the cylinder head and dipping it from $4,000 to $2,800 and the dealer I bought the car from said that they would give me $1,000, leaving me a bill of $2900 - $3,000 I'm really hoping BMW NA steps up. I know I'm not the original owner, but we also own a 2007 335xi so it's our 2nd BMW. Since I was originally looking at $5,900 out of pocket, and now I'm looking at $2900 or so, obviously it's not great but a helluva lot better!!


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

sirbikes said:


> I am going to start using diesel fuel additive -- Opti-lube summer+ blend to prevent build-up. We don't have any premium diesel around these parts, just the 40 cetane min.


Fuel additives are not going to help with carbon build up. Fuel is directly injected into the cylinder. Carbon is collecting in the intake manifold and intake valve ports. I wish this were the case.....


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Where is the carbon coming from, is it the EGR process? Maybe I should look into an EGR delete, assuming I don't run the risk of failing emissions.



BB_cuda said:


> Fuel additives are not going to help with carbon build up. Fuel is directly injected into the cylinder. Carbon is collecting in the intake manifold and intake valve ports. I wish this were the case.....


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

sirbikes said:


> Where is the carbon coming from, is it the EGR process? Maybe I should look into an EGR delete, assuming I don't run the risk of failing emissions.


My understanding is that it's basically soot and oil mixing and collecting at the intake ports. It's common for diesel engines.

Personally I was aware of the potential of buildup with what the VW guys go through. Certain VW models have instances where the intake and EGR become completely blocked. That's not the case with our cars. Our cars develop the buildup at the intake ports. I decided to use a Lubro Moly product designed to address this problem. I will do it every about every 13k miles.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> My understanding is that it's basically soot and oil mixing and collecting at the intake ports. It's common for diesel engines.
> 
> Personally I was aware of the potential of buildup with what the VW guys go through. Certain VW models have instances where the intake and EGR become completely blocked. That's not the case with our cars. Our cars develop the buildup at the intake ports. I decided to use a Lubro Moly product designed to address this problem. I will do it every about every 13k miles.


May I inquire as to the Lubro-moly product you're using? Thank you!!


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Have you used the Liqui Moly diesel purge yet? Which method do you use:

Copied from their tech data sheet:

INSTRUCTIONS:

Preventive use:
Fill the fuel filter up with Diesel Purge when doing filter 
replacement, put the rest in tank. Add to diesel fuel 
according to the inspection intervals.

Remedial use:
Unclip the fuel pipe and immerse the end in the Diesel 
Purge. Close the fuel return pipe or feed that into the Diesel 
Purge. Start the engine and allow the engine to run at 
different speeds with the Diesel Purge unmixed. After the 
cleaning process, assemble the vehicle's system. In extreme 
cases, repeat the cleaning procedure if necessary.

Link:
http://www.liqui-moly.us/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/us_2005.html?Opendocument&land=US



BMWTurboDzl said:


> My understanding is that it's basically soot and oil mixing and collecting at the intake ports. It's common for diesel engines.
> 
> Personally I was aware of the potential of buildup with what the VW guys go through. Certain VW models have instances where the intake and EGR become completely blocked. That's not the case with our cars. Our cars develop the buildup at the intake ports. I decided to use a Lubro Moly product designed to address this problem. I will do it every about every 13k miles.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

sirbikes said:


> Have you used the Liqui Moly diesel purge yet? Which method do you use:
> 
> Copied from their tech data sheet:
> 
> ...


I haven't had a chance to use anything yet. I just bought my 2009 335d on Thursday July 26, and am having to deal with a clogged intake and perhaps cylinder head. So I'm trying to get as much information as possible from more experienced bmw diesel owners so that I don't have to go through this again. Anything I can do to prevent or help prevent carbon buildup in the intake manifold and cylinder head I will try and do. Hopefully I can pick the brain of current bmw diesel owners with more experience in preventing carbon buildup!! Is there a difference between liqui-moly and lubro-moly? Thank you for your help and input.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

moejav said:


> I haven't had a chance to use anything yet. I just bought my 2009 335d on Thursday July 26, and am having to deal with a clogged intake and perhaps cylinder head. So I'm trying to get as much information as possible from more experienced bmw diesel owners so that I don't have to go through this again. Anything I can do to prevent or help prevent carbon buildup in the intake manifold and cylinder head I will try and do. Hopefully I can pick the brain of current bmw diesel owners with more experience in preventing carbon buildup!! Is there a difference between liqui-moly and lubro-moly? Thank you for your help and input.


Unfortunately if there was a good answer, everyone would be all over it. For now if you try the Liqui/Lubro-Moly approach, you will be going by what the company says with no published data or anything else to back it up. But maybe it might help a little, who knows?

One thing we do know is that BMW has no recommendations other than using the best fuel possible and at least 51 cetane, while generally not recommending any aftermarket additives.

PL


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

moejav said:


> May I inquire as to the Lubro-moly product you're using? Thank you!!


Pro-line Diesel Intake Cleaner. You can order from IDparts.com.

Follow the directions. It's not hard but you will need someone to modulate the throttle.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

any chance you plan to pull the manifold off and inspect the runners now that you have done the service?


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Hoooper said:


> any chance you plan to pull the manifold off and inspect the runners now that you have done the service?


Not at this time as I'm not really comfortable doing it.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> Pro-line Diesel Intake Cleaner. You can order from IDparts.com.
> 
> Follow the directions. It's not hard but you will need someone to modulate the throttle.


Is this similar to injecting Seafoam into the intake while revving the engine? I don't have benefit of the instructions. Is there some sort of port that you are adding through to directly clean the intake? I've heard the gassers using a vacuum port on the intake for their DI engines.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

BB_cuda said:


> Is this similar to injecting Seafoam into the intake while revving the engine? I don't have benefit of the instructions. Is there some sort of port that you are adding through to directly clean the intake? I've heard the gassers using a vacuum port on the intake for their DI engines.


I think the sucking into the intake works only for naturally aspirated engines. You need to remember with turbos, if you hit the throttle to rev the engine the intake will go from being under a vacuum to being under pressure.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

BB_cuda said:


> Is this similar to injecting Seafoam into the intake while revving the engine? I don't have benefit of the instructions. Is there some sort of port that you are adding through to directly clean the intake? I've heard the gassers using a vacuum port on the intake for their DI engines.


Yes. Essentially the same. The product comes with an attachable 12"-18" plastic probe. The directions say to hold rpms at 2k and spray in 2-3 second bursts as you push the probe throughout the intake. You don't want to exceed 3k rpms. The nozzle on my can would slowly shut off so I started at 1.5k rpms and played around with it from there. My hope was/is that some of the aerosols dissolved the buildup further down the runners. It's somewhat of a PITA. Oh and the tip of the plastic tube is removable. You obviously don't want it to get caught on the EGR or something which causes it to pop off and go tumbling down into your engine. It's hard plastic after all.

There's a Lubro Moly video on YouTube.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

It sounds promising, but I would be concerned about the side effects of such a procedure on the rest of the engine and fuel system. Would like to have more people chime in with experience on this with their diesels especially North American BMW 335d's because of the unique design.

PL


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I looked at the you tube videos. Basically same as BMWturbodzl says. The video shows the charge pipe removed from the inlet to throttle. So, when the engine is revved to 2-3 krpm, the engine is only getting atmospheric pressure and no benefit from turbos. I'm guessing the intercooler outlet is blasting away down below. Is that a problem trying to run the engine without turbos feeding it temporarily? I'm guessing all of carbo that is knocked loose is burned in engine. Hope this won't kack things up downstream.

@BMWturbodzl, how long you been doing this to your cars? Did it fowl up DPF? Not saying your idea is bad just curious of the long term effects. It certainly looks like alot less work than what Hooper did. I get the feeling you did this with VW TDIs, is that right? There is a local Indy german car mechanic that I will ask if he has used this product and/or technique.

I called BMW dealer and asked if i had my car partially dissassembled to inspect for carbon buildup if it would void the warranty. She said no as long as there wasn't an immediate problem come up right after related to the area where work happened.

@Hoooper, when you did your intake removal and cleaning, did you have any codes or nonsense happen after putting everything back together? I need to go back to what you wrote for us.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

BB_cuda said:


> @Hoooper, when you did your intake removal and cleaning, did you have any codes or nonsense happen after putting everything back together? I need to go back to what you wrote for us.


no issues directly after or since. After I finished was the first time I ever checked for codes and I did have some ghost codes (no SES light but codes were stored) for throttle valve, EGR, etc which I attributed to the car switching on while all those things were unplugged. I cleared them and havent had a code show up since. Idle was 100% normal and driving was perfectly normal right after I closed it back up.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

BB_cuda said:


> I looked at the you tube videos. Basically same as BMWturbodzl says. The video shows the charge pipe removed from the inlet to throttle. So, when the engine is revved to 2-3 krpm, the engine is only getting atmospheric pressure and no benefit from turbos. I'm guessing the intercooler outlet is blasting away down below. Is that a problem trying to run the engine without turbos feeding it temporarily? I'm guessing all of carbo that is knocked loose is burned in engine. Hope this won't kack things up downstream.
> 
> @BMWturbodzl, how long you been doing this to your cars? Did it fowl up DPF? Not saying your idea is bad just curious of the long term effects. It certainly looks like alot less work than what Hooper did. I get the feeling you did this with VW TDIs, is that right? There is a local Indy german car mechanic that I will ask if he has used this product and/or technique.
> 
> ...


#1 First time
#2 VW Tdi guys have been dealing with this on some engines. I merely knew that it "could" be a problem with our cars but thankfully it hasn't been.
#3 well I'm guessing yes but my car was already starting regen. It's not like this material isn't already going into the DPF and it is getting another turn through the combustion chamber. I really don't know how well it worked at the intake ports because our intake manifold is kinda curved. It may have done essentially nothing at all at the intake ports.

It's a hassle TBH with the damn throttle plate and wiring. You can't just pop off the charge pipe because there's not enough room to move it out of the way and snake in the tube.

I was nervous the entire time. Probably didn't use enough product.

Overall probably wasn't worth it at my mileage (too many miles).


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

BMWTurboDzl;7745779
It's a hassle TBH with the damn throttle plate and wiring. You can't just pop off the charge pipe because there's not enough room to move it out of the way and snake in the tube.
QUOTE said:


> When, i removed the throttle plate and EGR, there was no way to do this without complete removal of the charge pipe but i did leave the sensor connected to the pipe as i couldn't figure out how to unclip the connector to the sensor. So, as i say above the intercooler outlet was disconnected from charge pipe too. The you tube video was showing a MB CDI. Pretty much all diesels have been turbo for awhile. My point is that likely in the video, the engine was being run without the turbo helping but still revving to >2 krpm.
> 
> Perhaps this product has the benefit of cleaning the EGR without removing it from the car if nothing else. I agree with BMWturboDzl that likely the intake ports are getting no cleaning.
> 
> Good dialogue, thanks.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

They are obviously trying to say it was not related to their work, but we all have our serious doubts. If they continue to make it hard for you to get the rest of the work done gratis, it might be a good idea to call the regional BMW representative and file an official complaint.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> Dealer repairs carry a warranty from BMW.
> 
> Determining who pays is between BMWNA and the dealer.
> 
> If I were the OP there's no way I would use a salvaged engine.


I'm guessing the regional engineer inspected it and said it wasn't a failure on they're part, and it's on the dealer and the dealer is trying to squirm they're way out of it. :thumbdwn:


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

moejav, So sorry to hear of your misfortune. How many miles on your M57 engine? At risk of sounding like the thread over on the gasser forum, I'm curious how many miles the engine could fail at "IF" the dealer is not to blame. People here saying it is out of warranty but i haven't spotted what the in service date is and the mileage. I agree with the folks that say it is the dealer's foul up. Things don't just happen after driving for 25 miles after a major repair. If somehting was ready to fall apart, a compitent mechanic would have spotted an issue and recommended an additional repair. 

Only places where a major mechanical problem could be happening and not see it while head was off would be lower end of engine. Were all of the main and rod bearings okay? I'm guessing no one messed with the piston rings. The upper end was completely reassembled by them. I presume timing chain was replaced and losts of other "while its apart" things were changed out new. What exactly happened to the cylinder? If it locked up, i would suspect valve to piston collision. Almost sounds like an independantly hired expert that you hired should have been there witnessing the teardown. Otherwise, they can make up any bullsh$t that they want to. Something is stinking really bad right now. Perhaps it is time to lawyer up.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Stupid question but doesn't insurance cover something like this? Either yours or theirs?:dunno:

Answered my own question: No! It does not cover meachanical failure unless it leads to an accident.

Then I would play the warranty card on their repair work, and get your self a good lawyer. You are talking about serious money. They must warrant their repair even if your "warranty" on the vehicle itself is expired. That of course entails proving the damage was caused by their work.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Answers to warranty on BMW Parts installed by BMW.

Parts Warranty


The warranty on any part installed after 24 months from the “In Service Date” will carry a two year warranty.
If its installed before the 24 month cutoff then it will expire when the original Warranty runs out.
For example: A part installed at 47 months of vehicle ownership would be covered up until 71 months of vehicle ownership , or almost 6 years.
This applies for accessories that were installed at the time of delivery and have since failed as well.
This also applies to maintenance parts , as long as they are defective.
Most vehicles have the majority of warranty repairs done after 24 months of ownership and all of these replaced parts are covered after the original New Car Warranty has expired.
Any over the counter part that fails will have parts and labor covered provided the vehicle is towed or driven to your Center with the part still installed. Any labor to diagnose will also be covered.
All applicable TC rules apply in these cases.



BMW of North America warrants the Original new and re-manufactured parts and
accessories it sells against defects in materials or workmanship for a period of 24
months commencing on the date of sale or installation by an authorized BMW
passenger car center or authorized BMW light truck center.

Original BMW accessories that are installed in or on the vehicle such as front
and rear spoilers, alarms, sun/wind deflectors and cassette holders will carry
the new vehicle warranty if they were installed prior to delivery to the client. If
the installation is made after the retail sale of the vehicle, the accessory will be
warranted for the balance of the new vehicle warranty period, or two years from its
date of installation, whichever is greater. If the New Vehicle Warranty is in effect at
the time of replacement, the claim should be submitted under the New Vehicle
Warranty.

All over the counter/center installed parts which fail during the applicable warranty
period (see Original Parts and Accessories, WPPM-3) must be verified as defective by
a qualified service department employee and documented on a repair order. If the
sale/installation is made after the retail sale of the vehicle, the part will be warranted
for the balance of the new vehicle warranty period, or two years from its date of
installation, whichever is greater.

Prior to repair, certain automatic transmissions and electronic component
repairs/replacements require PuMA repair process authorization (Teile-Clearing).

If installation in the vehicle is required to determine that a defect exists (or the client
simply returns the vehicle in which the defective part was installed), then the labor to
diagnose the failure as well as to repair or replace the failed part is covered for
parts sold over the counter and parts installed by an authorized BMW center.

For details on the Parts Warranty click here


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

If you turn this around the other way, BMW would definately have said it was due to the head work. This is what i'm meaning. Let's say you wanted to have the intake changed and the head cleaned but there was no reportable problem. In this scenario, the car is still under warranty but BMW doesn't cover preemtive cleaning because there isn't a problem. In other words, the car was perfectly running fine but you knew there was stuff building up and you wanted to have it pre-emptivly cleaned before trouble happened. So, you pay an Indy to do this and then 25 miles after completion the same result happens. YOU DAMN WELL KNOW BMW WOULD BE SAYING YOU DID IT, AND WE AREN"T COVERING IT UNDER WARRANTY. 

My point is whether it is under warranty is beside the point. They worked on it and it laid a brown patch in the road. They are responsible. Don't settle for the this salvage yard engine business either. We are behind you on this, keep battling.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BB_cuda said:


> If you turn this around the other way, BMW would definately have said it was due to the head work. This is what i'm meaning. Let's say you wanted to have the intake changed and the head cleaned but there was no reportable problem. In this scenario, the car is still under warranty but BMW doesn't cover preemtive cleaning because there isn't a problem. In other words, the car was perfectly running fine but you knew there was stuff building up and you wanted to have it pre-emptivly cleaned before trouble happened. So, you pay an Indy to do this and then 25 miles after completion the same result happens. YOU DAMN WELL KNOW BMW WOULD BE SAYING YOU DID IT, AND WE AREN"T COVERING IT UNDER WARRANTY.
> 
> My point is whether it is under warranty is beside the point. They worked on it and it laid a brown patch in the road. They are responsible. Don't settle for the this salvage yard engine business either. We are behind you on this, keep battling.


Thank you BB_Cuda!! The "new" motor that the service manager is talking about with the 2 year unlimited mileage warranty is re-manufactured. If someone like Bigugly Fab took the salvage motor and went through it and tested it before installing I wouldn't have a problem with it. I"m not going to respond or do anything until the mechanic and service adviser I was working with are back to work on Monday!! Then I'm going to be a very polite asshole!! :bigpimp:


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

No, you are misinterpreting that.

"re-manufactured" in all intents and purposes in BMW world is "NEW" when it comes to engines. the only time BMW can put "NEW" parts in a car, is if it has never been sold and is brand new.
other than that, EVERYTHING that goes over the parts counter (to customers or techs in service) is titled "re-manufactured".

Believe, me I have installed a LOT of them at the dealer over 13 years. (mostly from flood cars/insurance). i can assure you I have done well over 100 BMW engines. EASY.

Never once, did i see anything that showed me the engines were rebuilt. they were impeccably clean and new.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

bigugly fab said:


> No, you are misinterpreting that.
> 
> "re-manufactured" in all intents and purposes in BMW world is "NEW" when it comes to engines. the only time BMW can put "NEW" parts in a car, is if it has never been sold and is brand new.
> other than that, EVERYTHING that goes over the parts counter (to customers or techs in service) is titled "re-manufactured".
> ...


OK, usually when someone says re-manufactured I think "factory rebuilt". I was talking to an independent this morning, trying to find an "expert" that would be unbiased that would take a look at the failure. He said that I should call BMW NA and get them involved. Should I wait until I talk to the service adviser I've been dealing with on Monday when he's back from vacation as well as the mechanic (both were on vacation at the same time) before calling BMW NA or call them now. I would think that the dealership has already gotten them involved as there was a regional bmw engineer that was there on Monday and supposedly inspected the motor and failure etc... ??? Thanks bigugly fab!!!


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

no. Call now. 


the advisor and mechanic are two ants in the mound with little to no authority.


If the rep came out, normally they have pictures and inspection report.

get it.

if not, PHYSICALLY have them show you what "failed" and take a LOT of pictures- not only of the 'failure'- but around it as well. 

GOOD pictures, not camera phone.

like D7000 with a 105mm macro.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

bigugly fab said:


> no. Call now.
> 
> the advisor and mechanic are two ants in the mound with little to no authority.
> 
> ...


Called BMW NA, just got off the phone, spoke with Christen initially, she put me on the phone with Stephan W a resolution specialist. He is saying that since the car is used and has 76,397 (out of warranty). BMW NA can't and or won't do anything to help, So I let him know where I stood, its extremely unlikely that an engine which was running fine before having work done and then failed immediately after having work done had something go wrong which wasnt related to the work which was done. The dealer isn't standing behind their work, and that I didn't want to get lawyers involved but would if I had to.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

oh no, Im not saying BMW NA is going to help at ALL.

I'm saying the dealership is going to have to eat this since they screwed up, and you will have do deal with the dealership level of retardation to get this fixed.
I would start communicating with the GM and the owner/company of that dealership. This is above the service advisor and service drive managers head now.

they are there to buffer/provide lip service anyways.

The dealership is going to have to eat this. plain and simple. 
You have a long fight in front of you, I'm sorry to say.

remember- polite asshole


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BB_cuda said:


> moejav, So sorry to hear of your misfortune. How many miles on your M57 engine? At risk of sounding like the thread over on the gasser forum, I'm curious how many miles the engine could fail at "IF" the dealer is not to blame. People here saying it is out of warranty but i haven't spotted what the in service date is and the mileage. I agree with the folks that say it is the dealer's foul up. Things don't just happen after driving for 25 miles after a major repair. If somehting was ready to fall apart, a compitent mechanic would have spotted an issue and recommended an additional repair.
> 
> Only places where a major mechanical problem could be happening and not see it while head was off would be lower end of engine. Were all of the main and rod bearings okay? I'm guessing no one messed with the piston rings. The upper end was completely reassembled by them. I presume timing chain was replaced and losts of other "while its apart" things were changed out new. What exactly happened to the cylinder? If it locked up, i would suspect valve to piston collision. Almost sounds like an independantly hired expert that you hired should have been there witnessing the teardown. Otherwise, they can make up any bullsh$t that they want to. Something is stinking really bad right now. Perhaps it is time to lawyer up.


76,400 miles, yes my service adviser said something about the #6 cylinder or something. I wanted to wait until he's back from vacation, before I go back in for full explanation, otherwise I could be lead away in handcuffs.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

I just met with the service manager and his boss who is over parts and service. They're saying the #6 injector failed, dumping fuel, too much fuel to dispensate (no where for it to go) the piston is 6 mm lower than it should be the rod is bent and the block is cracked. They didn't have the motor apart, pan off etc... to look up in but that's it in a nutshell. The mechanic didn't think that the injectors needed to be replaced as they were working fine when he drove it as well as the valet's drove it (total 70 miles). Since it was the injector that failed, they're saying it's on me.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Is there any way you can get them to "lemon" this car?


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

the injector failed and basically hydrolocked the engine? WTF? Is there any record of this ever happening on any vehicle in the history of the planet?

definitely dont let them throw that injector away


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Yeah I was there today and he had the injectors and glow plugs in his tool bin!! I'm pretty sure that earlier I posted up that they had said I may need to replace the injectors and I was moaning because they cost like $3000 to replace. I leave after they said we fixed everything and drive 39 miles (so 109 total before it locked up, but it was knocking at 30 or even before that, I noticed it knocking at a stop light when I wasn't moving. I had been on a 4 and 6 lane highway with the windows down for 25 miles. I don't know I'm sick to my stomach just very bummed out!!


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

GreekboyD said:


> Is there any way you can get them to "lemon" this car?


No, I bought it as is. Lemon law pertains to New cars. I bought it used and was at least the 2nd owner.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Is there any damage to the top of #6 piston? Like it had a collision with a valve. I note that they are pointing to something that nothing to do with their head work. I have never ever heard of an injector on anything be it a diesel, gasser, boat, tricycle that failed and caused a lower end failure. Perhaps, I am naive as i'm not a professional mechanic. I have only heard when a Top Fueler loses fire to a piston that this happens due to the shear volume of nitromethane that is going through that race engine. That would be alot of diesel to hydrolock a 3 L engine. That injector needs careful scrutiny like another poster mentioned. This could happen to any of us be the injector have 10,000 or 70,000 miles on it. Nothing to do with junk in the intake. Injector can't get the EGR/oil mix on it as it looks directly into combustion chamber.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

I would be getting all 6 injectors independently tested. If you have an injector that floods a cylinder like that, the only possible way that happens is if it basically blew out the internals of the injector and dumped all the fuel into the cylinder. If that had happened, the DDE would have sensed extremely low fuel pressure in the rail and it would have barely run if at all. This story just doesnt add up


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

moejav said:


> I have taken all correspondence and bills regarding the work done, performed etc... to date to a lawyer, he's looking over everything and I'm waiting to hear back from him. Also picked up the injectors and have taken them to a local shop Diesel Injection to have the injectors tested. It's interesting, the service adviser mentioned changing out the injectors, but when I asked why he didn't know, when I asked if we could test them like a bench test he said they couldn't, I talked to several dealers, none of they have a way to test the diesel injectors, basically we are on the hook for all 6 at $500 each, if they would have said an injector is acting funny or 2 of the injectors are acting funny, but all 6. There was no waiver or release for me to sign declining new injectors, I never said NO, but I was never given a reason to replace all 6, when I asked about why they suggested replacing the injectors I was told the mechanic had seen where the injectors were replaced on similar jobs on the forums, so the mechanic didn't know either!! If there was a question about it and they didn't really know, they should have been talking to BMW Engineering as a lot of people here in the diesel section with sedans have been having similar carbon build-up problems. But YES I'm not bluffing either. Waiting to hear from the lawyer and waiting to hear from Diesel Injection about the injectors


Here's the deal with the injectors and Carbon build up: A problem injector (usually a problem running or SES) may cause the early onset of excessive carbon. BMW SOP is to replace the faulty injector or all 6.

The SA merely offered a suggestion. They're not required nor will they test anything that the car isn't telling them to. The real issue is whether the dealer correctly diagnosed the problem. Did the tech miss the fault codes for the injectors? Why didn't the system notify you of a failing injector when you took possession? Did the tech who worked on your engine miss something when putting everything back together? Does the mileage in/out match their story of putting miles on the car?

It really doesn't matter if an injector failed because they're paid to correctly diagnosis the problem.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> Here's the deal with the injectors and Carbon build up: A problem injector (usually a problem running or SES) may cause the early onset of excessive carbon. BMW SOP is to replace the faulty injector or all 6.
> 
> The SA merely offered a suggestion. They're not required nor will they test anything that the car isn't telling them to. The real issue is whether the dealer correctly diagnosed the problem. Did the tech miss the fault codes for the injectors? Why didn't the system notify you of a failing injector when you took possession? Did the tech who worked on your engine miss something when putting everything back together? Does the mileage in/out match their story of putting miles on the car?
> 
> It really doesn't matter if an injector failed because they're paid to correctly diagnosis the problem.


I think you hit the nail on the head, Why didn't the system notify me of the failing injector? The SES light didn't come until after I noticed the engine knocking, and pulled into the parking lot and turned it off, when I re-started the car, it started but didn't start right, and the SES came on, but not before. As for in/out, the mechanic only drove about 15 miles of the 70 miles, a valet put at least 50 miles on it. They certainly didn't drive it very hard.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

@ bigugly fab

I've seen on other postings/threads where fuel injector(s) failed and dde and had to be replaced, but didn't hydrolock the motor... If it is true and my fuel injector failed and caused my engine to hydrolock why would mine have hydrolocked and someone else's didn't?


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Does anyone know what the specifications are on the injectors for the 335d? Does anyone know where I might find said information on the internet? I just got off the phone with Diesel Injection and the technician that tested them is gone for the day, so I have to call tomorrow, but I don't have any information on the injectors and would like to provide the technician with the spec's to compare with his findings and or tests. Thank you all for your help!!


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

moejav said:


> Does anyone know what the specifications are on the injectors for the 335d? Does anyone know where I might find said information on the internet? I just got off the phone with Diesel Injection and the technician that tested them is gone for the day, so I have to call tomorrow, but I don't have any information on the injectors and would like to provide the technician with the spec's to compare with his findings and or tests. Thank you all for your help!!


they should know at the diesel place right? Realistically what you are looking for is one injector that has a SIGNIFICANTLY different test result from the others


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Hoooper said:


> they should know at the diesel place right? Realistically what you are looking for is one injector that has a SIGNIFICANTLY different test result from the others


That would be correct!! Question, I noticed on another thread you and some other guy cssns or something were going back and forth, I noticed that, either the person who started the thread had posted or another user had posted, that along with having the cylinder head removed and cleaned, and intake manifold replaced that they had a bad injector and dde that got replaced... if that person's injector was bad and dde I wonder why the bad injector didn't cause his motor to hydrolock? And how the technician was able to tell that there was a bad injector? and dde? Things that make you go hmmm !!!


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Hoooper said:


> it does. Here is a diagram showing the two EGR coolers on the x5d. The one on the left is just like ours (high pressure side, right off the manifold). The one on the right you can see connects behind the DPF which is that canister on the right side of the diagram


Not arguing with either of you. I did realize that the X5 had both low and high pressure EGR. I cannot substantiate but remember reading that the X5 does more EGR ops on the low press side than high. I guess it depends on which gets used more . If equal, that would be 50% less soot. I'm sure it isn't that simple as the higher pressure side is feeding more molecules per unit volume of injection (higher pressure means higher density which means more mass).


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

moejav said:


> That would be correct!! Question, I noticed on another thread you and some other guy cssns or something were going back and forth, I noticed that, either the person who started the thread had posted or another user had posted, that along with having the cylinder head removed and cleaned, and intake manifold replaced that they had a bad injector and dde that got replaced... if that person's injector was bad and dde I wonder why the bad injector didn't cause his motor to hydrolock? And how the technician was able to tell that there was a bad injector? and dde? Things that make you go hmmm !!!


well bad injectors and DDE issues have come up several times that ive seen. Bad injectors also come up on common rail diesel trucks about as frequently. I would say that generally when an injector fails it doesnt fail in such a spectacular fashion that it can flood the cylinder and hydrolock the engine. Injector failures themselves on common rail diesels are (in my opinion) a lot more common than gas engines, but except for your engine I have never heard of it resulting in a hydrolock.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

UPDATE!!! - Yesterday I stopped by Diesel Injection, I had dropped the injectors at Diesel Injection to be tested, since the dealership claims it's the #6 injector that caused the motor to Hydro-lock. Well although he's not done yet, he did test the injectors and said that they seemed to be fine. In other words the #6 injector wasn't any different that #5, #4, #3, #2, or #1. However, he's waiting on a new injector to be delivered so he can test that and compare it to my 6 injectors. So as bigugly fab indicated originally when they offered me there story, something didn't sound right, didn't add up. As I noticed in other threads, where the injector or injectors had failed they're motors didn't hydro-lock. Also, the local news guy (and bmw enthusiast) whom I reached out to, spoke with the GM of The BMW Store, and pleaded my case and asked if there wasn't anything further he could do, of course the GM said that they had already offered $3500 off the discounted price of around $15,500 so now I'm wondering where else I might look to figure out exactly what happened, any ideas?? Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all the input and encouragement.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

moejav said:


> UPDATE!!! - Yesterday I stopped by Diesel Injection, I had dropped the injectors at Diesel Injection to be tested, since the dealership claims it's the #6 injector that caused the motor to Hydro-lock. Well although he's not done yet, he did test the injectors and said that they seemed to be fine. In other words the #6 injector wasn't any different that #5, #4, #3, #2, or #1. However, he's waiting on a new injector to be delivered so he can test that and compare it to my 6 injectors. So as bigugly fab indicated originally when they offered me there story, something didn't sound right, didn't add up. As I noticed in other threads, where the injector or injectors had failed they're motors didn't hydro-lock. Also, the local news guy (and bmw enthusiast) whom I reached out to, spoke with the GM of The BMW Store, and pleaded my case and asked if there wasn't anything further he could do, of course the GM said that they had already offered $3500 off the discounted price of around $15,500 so now I'm wondering where else I might look to figure out exactly what happened, any ideas?? Thanks again everyone, I appreciate all the input and encouragement.


You called a news guy? Unbelievable.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> You called a news guy? Unbelievable.


In my quest for more knowledge in regards to possibly installing a used/salvage motor I talked with several independent bmw shops, one of the larger shops that's been around for a while and has the capability to do diesel transplant, the owner said that this news guy was a customer and fellow BMW enthusiast and suggested I talk to him... so I e-mailed him and met with a lawyer, the news guy e-mailed me and said not much he could do other than to reach out to the GM of the dealership as a fellow BMW owner, which is what he did.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Does anyone have any spec's on the injectors? Flow rate? Pressure? etc... All six (6) injectors have tested similarly nothing extraordinary on the #6 injector which is supposed to have failed and dumped fuel into the cylinder head causing the Hydro-Lock and destroying the motor. Thank you.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

The lawyer has been working on a letter to the dealer... I shared the results of the injector test with the dealer and told them it couldn't be the #6 injector all injectors are in specifications, including the new one that was tested to compare to. He said that the injector failure was there theory as to the cause of the engine failure. They want their loaner back now, and are taking the oil pan off, I guess the engineer from BMW is coming in, and will have it available for me to look at tomorrow morning.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

I once had a frank discussion with the service manager at a car dealer. 50% satisfaction was considered pretty good. With other public service industries to compare to, its no wonder BMW charges such high fees (parts, labor, new cars) to try and maintain a high(er) level of customer care. The legal climate and playing field with added NBC 20/20, Consumer Reports, 60 Minutes, and perhaps EPA anti-business attitudes make enthusiast automakers' tasks that much more difficult.

This doesn't excuse dealer/mechanic screw-ups, but I can sympathize with both sides. The dealer is in a difficult spot, it seems, as is the customer. They should chin up and fix your engine for minimum cost. Maybe a compromise of getting a new(er) engine as a benefit would justify some out-of-pocket. Just saying.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

They've come down from $18,700 which originally they told was the cost of a replacement motor. Then they offered me around $15,500 most recently they offered around $12,000 and say they're losing money. I don't think they're necessarily loosing money if a new long block is $9300 and it takes 16 hours to install it. I just sent them a note that I didn't want the motor torn down unless myself or a representative was present to observe. I'd be willing to pay something to avoid litigation, $12,000 isn't what I had in mind though!!


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Folks,

Norty Norty shared this service report after he got an SES light.

Clogged up DEF Mixer due to crystallized Urea. This is common, he isn't driving car much anymore.

But what about this swirl flap in the intake manifold????

I've seen some discussion here as it relates to the carbon intake problem. What exactly is this swirl flap? They reference an SIB as well.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

http://www.bmwforums.info/general-g...ou-ever-ever-need-know-about-swirl-flaps.html


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Flyingman said:


> Folks,
> 
> Norty Norty shared this service report after he got an SES light.
> 
> ...


I was told that Benz diesels have them as well.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

yeah swirl flaps basically open or close the lower set of intake runners. The web page says that 2009+ diesels dont have swirl flaps but that is NOT the case. We have them. From my understanding the version we have is not the same as the ones which had failure/ingestion issues so at least we should be ok there. If too much carbon builds up on/around the valve it could certainly cause the flaps to not operate correctly. I dont believe they are in any way a cause of carbon buildup, but their failure could be a symptom.



BMWTurboDzl said:


> I was told that Benz diesels have them as well.


yeah there is nothing unusual or special about them, theyve been around for a long time and have been on both diesels and gas engines over that time


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Here is the latest, the oil pan came off and into the bottom end they went. It seems that the rod bearing came off disconnecting the rod and piston. The rod wasn't bent, the piston 6mm to low block cracked. The motor was dropped from the car and then the top end was taken apart, head removed and sent out. then put back together and the motor was put back in. Is it coincidental that it happened 109 miles after all the engine work?


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I wrote and then deleted after realizing that the piston end of rod was detached. I was thinking about other end of rod (journal bearing) when i wrote. Please ignore.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Im lost. "the rod bearing came off disconnecting the rod and piston"

I was almost certain the rod was broken and had punched a dent in the block. how else would that happen? a bent rod will dent the block, but you said it wasnt bent?
It kind of completely throws their "theory" of hydrolock dont you think?

I have seen S54's loose a rod bearing from their rod bearing issues, and the piston would contact the head likes yours did..... but its a known issue in the S54 world they have crappy bearings (which i have a solution for )

What? It spun a rod bearing? why? if the head was off, it was drained of coolant and oil.
I have seen abrasives ("whiz" wheels, green flappy dics, etc.etc.) get into the oil, along with other neat things like shop rags and other fun stuff that isn't supposed to be in there, clogging up the oiling system.....


You may not be able to put 2 and 2 together, but things don't happen like this just by "coincidence". I think the word you may be looking for is "negligence"


I mean, I have run into this a few times:

i roll the windows down in a car to get the hot air out- a window regulator just drops the window.... "it wasn't like that when I brought it in"
I changed the oil on a E61 yesterday- check engine light came on as soon as he left..... tank venting valve. I could see someone being suspicious that I screwed up..... but fortunately, he is a very understanding guy and can realize its nothing to do with what I did.


"it" happens- and sucks when it does, but this doesnt make sense. Rods don't just spit out a bearing. They dont just fall out. lack of oil and trash will make a bearing fall out though!


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Would dropping the motor out of the car to do the "maintenance" on the head, etc... and then putting the motor back in the car cause the rod bearing to become loose? I thought I that stuff was torqued down :dunno:


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

moejav said:


> Would dropping the motor out of the car to do the "maintenance" on the head, etc... and then putting the motor back in the car cause the rod bearing to become loose? I thought I that stuff was torqued down :dunno:


No.

You've been missing the point all along. The dealership has been BS'ing you and has been all along. It's either the tech who worked on your car, the service mgr, or the GM.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Clarification please: Did the rod come disconnected from crank or did the piston become disconnected from the rod (piston pin keeper issue)? Bigugly went where my retracted post had. I reread and it said bearing came off disconnecting the rod and piston.

Lower engine failure is not a random thing. Especially if it's heavy duty forged stuff like a diesel design uses. If the dealer didn't screw something up, its things like loss of oil pressure or perhaps too high of revs. Not accusing you of too high of revs. If oil pressure loss would have happened, there would have been widespread damage at all crankshaft journals.

Is the top of piston in anyway marred or dented in? Before tear down, i would have presumed valve/piston collision. 

Is $9300 for long block at dealer cost? best of luck buddy. We're praying this will get resolved.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Finally!!! The GM calls today at the end of the day, and says he has good news!! A new motor with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty... My part $2,500 + tax!!! Damn I thought it might get ugly, glad it worked out. Thank you everyone for your input, have a great weekend. :bigpimp:


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

moejav said:


> Finally!!! The GM calls today at the end of the day, and says he has good news!! A new motor with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty... My part $2,500 + tax!!! Damn I thought it might get ugly, glad it worked out. Thank you everyone for your input, have a great weekend. :bigpimp:


This sounds fair on the surface since you are getting a "new" motor with warranty so that would be a part of what you are paying for, better than before. Bad situation made better. Glad to hear it being resolved.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

moejav said:


> Finally!!! The GM calls today at the end of the day, and says he has good news!! A new motor with a 2 year unlimited mile warranty... My part $2,500 + tax!!! Damn I thought it might get ugly, glad it worked out. Thank you everyone for your input, have a great weekend. :bigpimp:


+1, sounds fair. Are you still being provided a loaner meantime?


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

:holsters mouse:


Your invoice is in the mail


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Tongue in cheek comment: I'm supposing new injectors are going in 

So glad to hear the GM stepped up to the plate. I'm wondering if the dealership is footing the bill or BMWNA? Moejav, you've had to ride this out for awhile now so breath a little easier. Since you have 2 years warranty, i guess you can't go do the EGR delete (coding, not physical removal). I would presume this warranty covers the engine proper not including turbos and other extremeties. You might want to get that distinct line drawn now as to what is in the 2 years and what is not. Emissions should be good for you until 70,000 miles though. 

Bigugly, do you do EGR removal coding? We are both in Houston. So far, I've heard of places in South Florida and somewhere in Canada. We are in sort of a catch 22. Have the thing turned off now and void the warranty vs wait until warranty over and too much stuff built up and paying to have cleaned, no warranty, and pay for EGR deactivation. I'm at 27,300 miles and 17 months left. Time will expire first. I had contemplated extended warranty but that means dealing with intake cleanings unless a related problem crops up. 

It would seem there are too many other risks unrelated to intake being fowled to risk no warranty. The DDE, injectors, SCR tanks are quick ones that come to mind. Proving EGR delete didn't cause these other problems would be tough. The SCR system is compensating for NOx in exhaust and EGR delete will definatley increase NOx unless meth injection comes to the rescue. Presuming meth injection another source of warranty problems. So, there could be a potential service manager judgement that EGR delete caused SCR malfunction.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

No I don't. But, you have to pay to play


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

bigugly fab said:


> :holsters mouse:
> 
> Your invoice is in the mail


Do you have any favorite restaurants in houston besides Ruths Chris and Morton's?


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Off topic but I have to chime in on the Resturant question. Having travelled a lot to Houston, for steak, at least for me hands down the place to go is 'Taste of Texas'. It's not a chain, it's a one of a kind resturant. a little west of downtown on I-10. Better quality than the chains, a little less $$$. But be warned is very popular and in the past would only take reservations for groups of more than 6. So if you arrive at 6PM with you party of 4, might be an hour wait. But they will have free snacks while you wait.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Way off topic!:tsk:

Flemings used to be our favorite, as well as Papas Steak House near the Galleria on Westheimer. Both are really good.

There used to be a real hiden gem called Lynn's Steak House out in West Houston. Hard to find but many of the Football and BBall players would frequent this place.

Those are all high end steakhouses, Saltgrass is also great for the price conscious.:thumbup:


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

You going to laugh but I've had just as good sirloin at golden corral than had at restaurants charging 3, 4 times as
much. The only way really like steak is home on the grill. But sometimes if out with friends have gone with the flow.
Getting very picky on eating out, seem all places get the food from sysco ?? or Keith. The Houston traffic
can seem like an all nighter getting to & from LOL ??? What do you think of the brazilian style steak places in Houston,
friends want to go


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

txagbmw said:


> L ??? What do you think of the brazilian style steak places in Houston,
> friends want to go


Been there too. Food was vey good but unless you go REALLY hungry, you will not get your $$ worth. Don't fill up on the salad buffet before the meat. :rofl:


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Unless they use diesel to heat the fryer oil resulting in clogged arteries, we've officially gone off topic. 


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

The reason I asked bigugly fab about a favorite restaurant was I had planned on getting a gift certificate to show my appreciation for his technical help and advice, which was very much appreciated!!!


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

OK, well I got a call from the service adviser... It seems there was one m57 motor in the US and it arrived at the dealership yesterday... My question is, when he called he asked me to drop off the injectors, which I did, but I've been wondering if I should bite the bullet and buy new injectors so I'll have a 2 year warranty on them as well??? Thank you for your input.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

moejav said:


> OK, well I got a call from the service adviser... It seems there was one m57 motor in the US and it arrived at the dealership yesterday... My question is, when he called he asked me to drop off the injectors, which I did, but I've been wondering if I should bite the bullet and buy new injectors so I'll have a 2 year warranty on them as well??? Thank you for your input.


I would since they have 70k miles on them.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Referencing post #150, i had wondered if new injectors were happening or not. 

What is covered on the 2 yr warranty? Surely, the new intake you paid for 27 miles before knocking started should be included. I would say you should get a clear dotted line drawn around what is covered and what is being rebolted on and your's to stomach from here onward. Nothing verbal, in writing is best advice. This will protect you and the GM.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

whatever part number is on the repair order is what you are going to get for a warranty.


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## Blueandwhite83 (Oct 13, 2013)

Wow, seems the forum trolls are out in full force on this thread thinking they know happened. Nothing like armchair mechanics. :thumbdwn


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Who the hell are you?


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

bigugly fab said:


> Who the hell are you?


Noneya,BZ!!!! He is the troll.:jack:


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

lol


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Apparently the dealership has shown up to try and cast doubt. Lol.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Anyway we can take blueandwhite83 out??


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

* Update * The new motor is in, the mechanic drove it home thursday evening last week, the service manager drove it over the weekend, the cam sensor code or something went off over the weekend, new ones are being expedited from Germany, interesting there was a long block in the US but not the Cam, or Cam Gear, or Cam sensor. They're cleaning and buffing, then going to the wheel doctor for the wheels to get prettied up and hopefully I should be driving by this weekend. Probably $3000 - $3500 again. I was waiting on an A/C line from the original work 8/27 that was $400, so $2500 + $400 + Cam or Cam Gear or Cam Sensor... Damn!! One thing after another... Soon hopefully soon!!


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Regarding post 163, I guess the troll was pointing at me? I been on this board about 2 years or so. I've been more of a piece maker at times than a "give a rash of sh$t" type of person. 

Moe, did you go for new injectors? Hope all is sorted out soon with the cam sensor. I'm having to get one of my wheels doctored too. 

I nailed a hidden curb on Sunday afternoon. I rounded a corner where there was no sidewalk. The street i was turning onto was downhill and a sidewalk started going down the hill. There was another curb connected to the sidewalk but it wasn't connected to the curb that I was turning around. Basically it was like the sidewalk was 4 feet out in the street. I'll take 1/2 blame for rounding the corner too fast and give 1/2 blame to Houston street engineering. Getting it fixed at Alloy Wheel Repair Services for $150. I had it checked by Discount Tire first to make sure it wasn't bent. All will be back to normal in 2 days hopefully. I will have to buy another M sticker for the wheel, they don't replace them. Sorry for the thread jack. Now back to normally scheduled programming.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Iirc the cam sensors should be in the new engine when it comes.


I mean I could be wrong, but that makes no sense. Whatever, you got it in and it's done.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

@ bigugly fab I'm not sure if he said cam sensors or cam gear, I didn't have time to write it down and I should have asked him to repeat it, I know I heard Cam... so it could have been the Cam Gear or the Cam(s). Anyway yeah it will hopefully be ready by the end of the week beginning of next at the latest.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Well if thats the case, if it was a cam gear it should be warranty. a longblock engine from BMW is top/bottom ready to drop in. If it was timed wrong or whatever, that is warranty.

been there- done that.
had an M54 i was putting in a E46..... A valve stem keeper wasnt installed correctly- the valve was hanging (amazing it didnt drop!).... warranty to pull the head to fix the valve and keeper. no miles on the engine never left the stall lol


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I pulled the throttle plate off of the front of the EGR yesterday. The EGR was not near as filthy as the first time i did this. I used just a little carb cleaner and a rag and was able to well clean the EGR without removing it. The throttle plate assembly only had a little bit of black on it (just enough to notice). I've only driven about 4000 miles since last time. First cleaning was with ~23,500 miles and was driven prior to the recalls. First cleaning just after the recalls. Yesterday's inspection seems to show I'm not getting that much soot coming through now... atleast after 4000 miles driven.

The charge pipe had a little bit of oil inside both ends. I tried to stick my finger in the intercooler outlet to see if i had a pool of oil but couldn't get to its bottom. The guys at the dealer doing my oil changes are making one hell of a mess of the under engine closeout panel. In disgust, i completely removed the front lower piece. I also removed the smaller panel covering the transmission as well. I well cleaned and wiped down both using carburator cleaner. The spilled oil had attracted road dirt and mess. I wiped off other places as i could only lightly spraying with cleaner.. i.e way more wiping than spraying.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

BB_cuda said:


> The guys at the dealer doing my oil changes are making one hell of a mess of the under engine closeout panel.


that panel is so poorly designed its sad. You really have to have the car on the exact plane it was designed for or the draining oil clips the edge and then slowly collects on the panel. Why it was necessary to design the flip down as close as possible to not working I do not know.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

try changing the oil on an M54 E60 :laughing:


That thing will launch 4 quarts on the under panels before you know it lol


We have licence plates as oil shields to make it go DOWN not OUT


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Hoooper said:


> that panel is so poorly designed its sad. You really have to have the car on the exact plane it was designed for or the draining oil clips the edge and then slowly collects on the panel. Why it was necessary to design the flip down as close as possible to not working I do not know.


I don't know about BMW but my other German cars since 1999 have had the capability to get the oil changed through the dipstick, including Mercedes and VW. This method may even be preferred as it uses a suction pump and the oil filter is changed from above. Having an oil dipstick on the 335d does have its advantages perhaps.

It is my preferred method also.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

bigugly fab said:


> We have licence plates as oil shields to make it go DOWN not OUT


:rofl: The panel is a good idea, and very simple, I wonder why they cant get it right


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm surprized no body was glad to here that the recalls might have actually reduced how much soot is going into the intake. You guys took off with my off topic thing about the underneath panel getting messy. Sorry for the sidetrack.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BB_cuda said:


> Regarding post 163, I guess the troll was pointing at me? I been on this board about 2 years or so. I've been more of a piece maker at times than a "give a rash of sh$t" type of person.
> 
> Moe, did you go for new injectors? Hope all is sorted out soon with the cam sensor. I'm having to get one of my wheels doctored too.
> 
> I nailed a hidden curb on Sunday afternoon. I rounded a corner where there was no sidewalk. The street i was turning onto was downhill and a sidewalk started going down the hill. There was another curb connected to the sidewalk but it wasn't connected to the curb that I was turning around. Basically it was like the sidewalk was 4 feet out in the street. I'll take 1/2 blame for rounding the corner too fast and give 1/2 blame to Houston street engineering. Getting it fixed at Alloy Wheel Repair Services for $150. I had it checked by Discount Tire first to make sure it wasn't bent. All will be back to normal in 2 days hopefully. I will have to buy another M sticker for the wheel, they don't replace them. Sorry for the thread jack. Now back to normally scheduled programming.


I had a curb jump right out at me and clip my right rear wheel a while back. It went **** eyed but I didn't ruin the tire, bent the rim a bit, some scratches. Had it fixed by BMW as below my deductible. The rim was repaired by a jobber in a trailer on site at BMW, did a great job, couldn't tell it had been touched. They replaced my wheel bearing under warranty (!) and re-aligned the rear, and all around. I also messed up some sensor related to the ABS.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Hoooper said:


> :rofl: The panel is a good idea, and very simple, I wonder why they cant get it right


A some tech musta been screwing around with an engineer's wife :rofl:


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Flyingman said:


> I had a curb jump right out at me and clip my right rear wheel a while back. It went **** eyed but I didn't ruin the tire, bent the rim a bit, some scratches. Had it fixed by BMW as below my deductible. The rim was repaired by a jobber in a trailer on site at BMW, did a great job, couldn't tell it had been touched. They replaced my wheel bearing under warranty (!) and re-aligned the rear, and all around. I also messed up some sensor related to the ABS.


I had no message on the cluster or anything else. How did you know to have the bearing replaced? Was the realignment also done under warranty? I was planning to take it to an Indy alignment shop. I'm guessing you had service needed messages related to ABS and they did these other things for procautionary reasons.

My rim was not bent. Only curb rash. Here is a picture. Damage at the 10 o'clock location. Discount tire guy was pointing at valve stem.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Yes, immediately after striking the curb I noticed my alignment was off.

I think it must have been the ABS sensor that counts the number of teeth on the rotor (detects speed relatively to each wheel to determine how much braking force is required to which wheel) The bearing was probably detected when they tried to do the alignment.

I paid for everything but the bearing. My rim was not only slightly rubbed, it was bent apparently, but the repair guy was able to straighten, balance and repaint it like nothing had happened.:thumbup:


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BB_cuda said:


> I had no message on the cluster or anything else. How did you know to have the bearing replaced? Was the realignment also done under warranty? I was planning to take it to an Indy alignment shop. I'm guessing you had service needed messages related to ABS and they did these other things for procautionary reasons.
> 
> My rim was not bent. Only curb rash. Here is a picture. Damage at the 10 o'clock location. Discount tire guy was pointing at valve stem.


Please note that BMW installs weights in your car to simulate people when they do an alignment. Indy's don't do that. Might make a difference?:dunno:


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Not really.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

bigugly fab said:


> Not really.


Not really what?

Attached BMW TIS for adding the weights for alignment.

And if you don't think it is important to get it right:http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=416660


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Actually, I don't think its important as people lead to believe. I've been aligning BMW's for 13+ years now, and have never had an problem.

I would conservatively guess I've done about 2000-3000 alignments. (lets say 3-5 alignments a week, 52 weeks a year, 13 years...)

I did 8 alignments last week! lol


How the car is being used is much more important that how the car is ballast'ed. Most cases, one person is driving in the car, no junk/weight in it. It should be aligned as such.
I only run into drifting/alignment issues with extreme circumstances (someone uses their car heavily... lots of crap in it all the time, or the person is extremely overweight)

How many times have you had 4/5 people, full trunk, full tank of gas? My guess is very VERY seldom, if any time.


I toss weight in the drivers seat to simulate a person, that's it.
Its how we align track and race cars as well. The driver sits in it. 

We can go on and on about this, but I have never had to eat my words on my alignments. I've never had to buy or replace tires for a customer after my alignment. I've never had a customer complain about tire wear or handling issues after an alignment.....

Now, I have had some people complain about a drift or a pull after doing one..... but its either because they have a radial pull that cannot be solved unless we replace tires, Or because the car is set up so neutral that any road crown is now affecting the way the car is driving......
or super anal retentive customers that complain about everything/anything/anytime/for any reason 
but thats far and few between


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

You, my friend, are exceptional!:thumbup:

When are you moving to South Florida????:dunno:

But alas, you do do add the weight of the driver. I've never seen any Indy add anything.

Fully agree, I drive solo 99% of the time. My fuel tank goes from full to MT, so 50% fuel would be my average fuel load. Nothing in my trunk but my tire repair kit and compressor.

As you appear to be qualified to comment about this subject, why did my original RFTs wear in the front and outer sides quicker than my rears, and now my Non-RFTs are wearing more in the rear (very well balanced wear by the way), but my tread is much more worn in the rear than the fronts? I did switch from the Bridgetsone RFTS (OEM) to the Michelin PSS, and increased my width up front from 225 to 235, rears are still 255.

I haven't changed my driving habits as far as I can tell?

Appreciate any and all advise.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Those bridgestone's are **** tires. GARBAGE.

Thats my first guess.
second, is tire pressure.


Michelin PSS's are exceptional tires, and wear fantastic for a performance rubber.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm very pleased with the PSS and they now have about the same miles as the RFTs. I keep my air pressure pretty much spot on, a bit on the higher end, around 40 front and 42rear.

The RFTs fronts wore quicker on the outside edges while the rears remained evenly worn.

The PSS fronts still have deep tread left with 30K miles on them, but my rears are now with little depth.

Wear is even both front and rear. Could the slightly wider fronts provide a bit better wear than the rears? Would wider rears (say 265 vs 255) perhaps help this out?

I realize there are many variables, but my driving style and route remain the same.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Flyingman said:


> I'm very pleased with the PSS and they now have about the same miles as the RFTs. I keep my air pressure pretty much spot on, a bit on the higher end, around 40 front and 42rear.
> 
> The RFTs fronts wore quicker on the outside edges while the rears remained evenly worn.
> 
> ...


It might make more sense that RFT's would wear more on the outside edges since that is where they are more rigid than non-RFT's.

Maybe the third generation RFT's which are said to be nearly as soft as otherwise identical non-RFT's won't have this as much, depending on how you drive, of course.

Plus, the larger size you put on the front may wear less due to the greater amount of rubber in contact and less force per cm2 of tire tread than the OEM smaller size.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

Pierre Louis said:


> Plus, the larger size you put on the front may wear less due to the greater amount of rubber in contact and less force per cm2 of tire tread than the OEM smaller size.


That turns into a give/take depending on how wide the rubber is vs. rim width..... the way the tire is shaped causes goofy wear as well.


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## TopDog5450 (Feb 11, 2011)

You should consider running biodiesel fuel in your 335d. The biodiesel fuel may assist in keeping the fuel injectors clean or it might not depending on the type of biodiesel used.

Here is a link to an informative article regarding biodiesel and fuel injectors:

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/ar...rformance-the-difference-is-in-the-additives/


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## taibanl (Oct 3, 2010)

TopDog5450 said:


> You should consider running biodiesel fuel in your 335d. The biodiesel fuel may assist in keeping the fuel injectors clean or it might not depending on the type of biodiesel used.
> 
> Here is a link to an informative article regarding biodiesel and fuel injectors:
> 
> http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/ar...rformance-the-difference-is-in-the-additives/


Im not a smart guy but i really despise giving out advice that directly conflicts from MFR guidance. I realize there are SOME benefits to biodiesel, however nothing in this world is free and there are dome marked disadvantages too. With a system as complex as ours i would really hesitate to recommend to others to go against MFR guidance. What you do in your own car is fine.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

there has been at least one case where biodiesel was blamed for bombing basically the whole emissions system on the D


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Biodiesel is well known to increase fuel contamination of engine oil in engines using DPF regeneration by exhaust cycle injection.


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## bigugly fab (May 28, 2009)

I mean I can run off of pure vegetable oil in my Superduty if I wanted to- but unless I'm ready to change filters/clean the system an infinite amounts of time- I'm not going to.


Makes me wonder about pouring the fried turkey oil in there just to smell peanuts while driving around though


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I'd avoid it like the plague. Hear it is tough living up in Illinois.

MB Bluetech owners have to sign an acknowledgement that they are fully aware of the harm Biodiesel greater than B5 (or whatever the current allowed % is) can cause and that their warranties will be voided if any damages are attributed to burning out of spec diesel fuel.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Read it and weep!:bawling:

Not all diesel is created equal, and that fact has challenged Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen Group in their quest to popularize the fuel in the United States.

Two summers ago, Mercedes stopped allocating BlueTEC diesels to dealerships in Illinois. The reason? Testing showed the engines could be ruined by diesel blends heavy on biodiesel, a fuel made from crops, animal fat or fryer grease that has strong political support in the Midwestern farm belt.

Biodiesel can seep into the crankcase of a diesel engine, form acids and degrade into "gunky, goopy" sludge, says William Woebkenberg, fuels policy director for Mercedes-Benz USA. The sludge can coat intercoolers, exhaust gas recirculation valves and engine and turbocharger bearings, putting a driver at risk of an engine failure.

"Once you sludge an engine, there's no going back," Woebkenberg says. "There's no magical stuff that you can pour into the top of the engine and flush it all away."

Mercedes, like all the German brands, has certified its engines to handle blends with up to 5 percent biodiesel, which are called B5. Higher blends void the warranty.

In most parts of the United States, that is not a problem, but Illinois helps out local biodiesel producers with tax incentives that put their fuel at a price advantage. This, combined with a federal law that created a lucrative market for renewable fuel credits, means diesel in Illinois usually contains about 11 percent biodiesel.

It is a situation that could spread across the Midwest as stricter biofuels laws take effect. Minnesota is next; the state is on track to have a mandate by June 2014 that all diesel contain more than 10 percent biodiesel.

Only one U.S. passenger car, the Chevrolet Cruze, is certified to handle that much biodiesel. It can take any blend from 0 to 20 percent biodiesel, which is called B20.

VW and Audi have kept selling their TDI models, sending letters to owners saying that they will cover any damage caused by B20. Service intervals for diesel vehicles have also been tweaked so oil filters can be changed more often.

It could raise warranty costs, but given the huge bet that VW and Audi have placed on diesel engines, the company deemed it a necessary risk.

Eric Matway, general manager of Continental Audi in Naperville, Ill., said customers are asking about the situation, but he thinks Audi's promise of warranty coverage will keep them from being scared off. Diesel versions of the A6, A7 and Q5 launch this fall; his store is ordering about 20 percent of them with diesel engines.

"They've taken a very specific position with the letter," he said of Audi. "It's strong and confident, saying 'We're going to take care of you.'"

Mercedes says that using blends with more biodiesel than B5 can cause damage that isn't covered by a warranty, but the company will consider paying for repairs case by case, depending on whether a vehicle has been regularly serviced.

Automakers are also looking at B20-certified engines, but it would take costly re-engineering, Woeb-kenberg said. That includes redesigning crankcases, oil filters and oil pans to hold more oil, which adds weight and creates packaging problems.

"It becomes a study in risk management," he said. "How much are we willing to do? What do our warranty claims look like? We know what to do to make our hardware more tolerant to higher blends, but by the nature of the fuel ... there are things that you can't get past."

You can reach Gabe Nelson at [email protected].

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/201...l-can-become-gunky-goopy-sludge#ixzz2iPaDitAl 
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

TopDog5450 said:


> You should consider running biodiesel fuel in your 335d. The biodiesel fuel may assist in keeping the fuel injectors clean or it might not depending on the type of biodiesel used.
> 
> Here is a link to an informative article regarding biodiesel and fuel injectors:


Here is a counter-argument, in the same magazine. http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/articles/2290/understanding-the-post-injection-problem/


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

I have a new engine, doing 5,000 mile oil changes... probably another year and I'll get an EGR Delete program, and Chip it... definitely don't want to deal with another clogged intake and cylinder head... I think there is a problem with spun rod bearing as well when they drop the motor to take they cylinder head out. The Service adviser sent me a link to someone else at another dealership in another state having that happen as well. When they did the work to my car initially they drove it 70 miles, I drove it 39 miles and the engine failed it was a 2 month ordeal and it sucked. But it runs great right now, still though I would rather try to be proactive in keeping the carbon buildup from happening... So if anyone has any ideas other than doing an EGR delete and killing the 2-year warranty on the new motor I'm all ears!!!


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

moejav said:


> So if anyone has any ideas other than doing an EGR delete and killing the 2-year warranty on the new motor I'm all ears!!!


do a physical EGR block off and erase the codes when you drive it, take out the EGR block off if you ever have to go to the dealership and you wont kill any warranty. Unless of course they pull the manifold and see that its not full of gunk, then theyll know somethings up :rofl:


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## technoweenie (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi there, 
New to the forum here as my bro has a clogged 335d intake. I'm his mechanic... 
Does anyone have pictures of intake removal and whether any special tools are needed? I am a mechanic but haven't done this particular job before. 
Thanks!!


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

technoweenie said:


> Hi there,
> New to the forum here as my bro has a clogged 335d intake. I'm his mechanic...
> Does anyone have pictures of intake removal and whether any special tools are needed? I am a mechanic but haven't done this particular job before.
> Thanks!!


Techno,

There is a SIB out that describes how they can walnut blast the 335D intake manifold in situ. It appears rather complex as it involves a myriad of intricate specially designed wands and nozzles.

On the other hand some folks used to just remove the intake manifold and head and have them cleaned at a specialty shop, then re-install.

There is plenty of info about this under the heading of CBU (Carbon Build Up). If you need a copy of the SIB, it is posted somewhere on here, but if not send me a PM and I can email you a copy.

We would love to see any photos you could share as well.

Good luck!:thumbup:


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

technoweenie said:


> Hi there,
> New to the forum here as my bro has a clogged 335d intake. I'm his mechanic...
> Does anyone have pictures of intake removal and whether any special tools are needed? I am a mechanic but haven't done this particular job before.
> Thanks!!


there are a couple reverse torx bits required, maybe 13mm, for removing the strut tower brace and a handful of allen head bolts. Aside from that, no special tools. Removing the intake is a pretty simple job. There are threads about various 335i jobs that cover the tricky part, which is removing the cowl tray to get it out, and thats not tricky if you know which bolts you need to pull


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## Geotrash (Dec 22, 2013)

Nothing unusual about his request. Every car is different with details and nuances that are better to know about up front, which is why repair manuals exist. I find that people documenting repairs on forums often do a much better job than the manuals do because they provide practical guidance too. In fact I'd say asking for guidance from others who've done the task on this particular car is the mark of a good mechanic.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## technoweenie (Aug 26, 2014)

Thank you hooper, flyingman and geotrash for promptly and diligently answering my simple question. It is posts like yours that positively contribute to this community. As we all know, knowledge is power and the key to efficiency.


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## Geotrash (Dec 22, 2013)

technoweenie said:


> Thank you hooper, flyingman and geotrash for promptly and diligently answering my simple question. It is posts like yours that positively contribute to this community. As we all know, knowledge is power and the key to efficiency.


Looks like mine got moderated out for some reason. Bummer. Was trying to be helpful and suggest that internet forums are a reliable place to find guidance from people who've done the job first-hand. Happy to remain silent from now on here.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

technoweenie said:


> Thank you hooper, flyingman and geotrash for promptly and diligently answering my simple question. It is posts like yours that positively contribute to this community. As we all know, knowledge is power and the key to efficiency.


FYI the reverse torx bits im pretty sure there are at least two sizes, so if you have a set thats your best bet.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Geotrash said:


> Looks like mine got moderated out for some reason. Bummer. Was trying to be helpful and suggest that internet forums are a reliable place to find guidance from people who've done the job first-hand. Happy to remain silent from now on here.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


Dave - Sorry about that, I put your post back with an, ah, edit. All of your post is now back in place.

Rich


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## Geotrash (Dec 22, 2013)

Wow, thanks Rich. I appreciate the responsiveness and willingness to exercise discretion in this case.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## idiotcentral (May 4, 2017)

*clogged intake valves 2011 335D*

I had repeated dash warnings of "service engine soon." They would stay on for two days and go off for a week. Finally got the car to the dealer while the light was on. He replied later that it is throwing seven codes. One for a mass air sensor, and six for rough running cylinders. He said it has carbon buildup on the intakes. That the valve covers have to be removed and the manifold sent to a machine shop to grind the carbon off. Estimated price $2400. And he claims it's not covered under the CPO warranty. Is this correct?


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

Well if it's only $2400 you're getting off better than I did... I paid $5500... when the dealership said that my car was ready they had driven it 70 miles after making the repairs, I drove it 39 miles before the motor failed... we later found that it had spun a rod bearing... after a bunch of back and forth, I got a new motor with a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty for $2500... you may want to check with BMW USA they might help you with the repair if you're having the work done at a BMW dealership


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## osochuckles (Jan 8, 2016)

idiotcentral said:


> I had repeated dash warnings of "service engine soon." They would stay on for two days and go off for a week. Finally got the car to the dealer while the light was on. He replied later that it is throwing seven codes. One for a mass air sensor, and six for rough running cylinders. He said it has carbon buildup on the intakes. That the valve covers have to be removed and the manifold sent to a machine shop to grind the carbon off. Estimated price $2400. And he claims it's not covered under the CPO warranty. Is this correct?


Not sure about the warranty part, but removing the valve covers and sending the manifold off to be walnut blasted is correct. Is it an indy shop or a dealership? Did they say anything about the injectors?

I had to have the same thing done to mine plus replacing all the injectors. Ran me about $7800 at the dealership so the $2400 quote seems pretty good.

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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Most likely no need to replace injectors. Dealers did that a few years ago when nobody knew any better but now we do. $2400 seems high for just a CBU cleaning, but the dealer price for that can go a bunch higher too. Some dealers are doing it for around $1500 but I figure those are the ones who have done a lot of 335i and 335d cleanings and are pretty comfortable with it.

From what I recall, BMW has been covering it under CPO if you get a bunch of codes from it, which it sounds like you have. If the dealer youre at wont do it, call another and ask them, you might find some are more willing to do warranty service than others.


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## Roman-dude (Feb 10, 2010)

Can't speak to the CPO but it was covered under the original warranty and possibly under their extended svc plan. If the dealer keeps giving you grief, call BMW NA Corporate.


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## idiotcentral (May 4, 2017)

*Resolution*

Thanks. I was essentially given the run-around from BMWUSA customer service. The operator told me it was up to the local service department to determine if the repair was covered under the CPO. I asked for a supervisor to call me back and explain this. She said she would "escalate" the inquiry, though it might take 48 (business) hours for the call back. I called service writer who has the car, again asked for an explanation. An hour later he called back to say that he had done some "digging," and in fact, DIESELS (as opposed to regular BMWs) are covered under CPO for carbon buildup in the intakes. So that's the answer if it happens to any of you.


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## moejav (May 11, 2012)

I wouldn't think that there is any reason to replace the injectors... the dealer I had mine at said the same thing, I ended up taking the injectors to Diesel Injection... not sure if there is one in Indy or not, I know there is one in Louisville and Cincinnati, they can test your injectors if you feel the need to get them tested. I was told that the walnut blast wouldn't work with my situation the carbon buildup was too much... complete replacement of the intake and other items... the cylinder head was sent out to a machine shop... :bigpimp:


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Reviewing the DieselInjection.com site, I wonder what tests were performed on BMW injectors.


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## Roman-dude (Feb 10, 2010)

idiotcentral said:


> Thanks. I was essentially given the run-around from BMWUSA customer service. The operator told me it was up to the local service department to determine if the repair was covered under the CPO. I asked for a supervisor to call me back and explain this. She said she would "escalate" the inquiry, though it might take 48 (business) hours for the call back. I called service writer who has the car, again asked for an explanation. An hour later he called back to say that he had done some "digging," and in fact, DIESELS (as opposed to regular BMWs) are covered under CPO for carbon buildup in the intakes. So that's the answer if it happens to any of you.


Sure. If all else fails, picking up every BMW executive's email off the Internet and emailing a complaint directly gets one a quickly returned call.


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