# Service Engine Soon--Say what???



## Philm35 (Aug 19, 2010)

This Saturday brings to an end my fourth week and 945 miles with my brand new 335d. Today, driving home from work, the "Service Engine Soon" light came on. The car runs flawlessly, and I checked to make sure that the fuel cap was tightly closed (it was).

What gives?

--Phil


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Mine ran flawlessly when the SES came on and stayed on for months. I'd take it in, probably something simple but who knows.


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## NCe61 (Jun 23, 2009)

We have had the SES light come on several times, including a couple of days ago, despite no obvious problems. We are wondering if it is related to the intermittent bad DEF message that BMW told our SA should just be reset and ignored. Hopefully we will be able to take it to the dealer today or tomorrow. I will report back on the results.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Mine was at least a constant light. On and off would drive me nuts, my light for the low oil was kind of like that although it had a pattern behind how it happened.


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## bernie335d (Mar 1, 2010)

I had the amber check engine light come on one chilly evening after starting the car. I drove it home and parked it in the garage over night. The car drove fine all the way home, which wasnt too far. Next day, I got up and fired up the d and the light came on again. I went in and called BMW to bring the car in for service and they said I would have to wait a week. My heart fell in fear of not driving the car all week. I came back later in the day and fired up the d one more time...no light. I was relieved! Drove the car all week and the light never came on again so I cancelled the appointment. Unsure why it came on, but Im glad it reset it self.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I had the SES come on a few times during first few 1,000 miles. It would always reset next time I started it, so I ignored it till first service at 13k.

If it is not reseting then I'd bring it in to be checked.

If it resets but returns frequently, I'd take it in as well.

If it goes away and pops back after a while and clears again, I wouldn't get my shorts in a knot.

There is an updated software that is supposed to be uploaded that should resolve one of the problems causing this intermittent error. Details are posted in here somewhere.:dunno:


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## Philm35 (Aug 19, 2010)

Mine came on yesterday afternoon, and was on all day today. It's going in to the dealership on Thursday to get looked at. I'll let you know if I learn anything.


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## anE934fun (May 10, 2008)

Philm35 said:


> This Saturday brings to an end my fourth week and 945 miles with my brand new 335d. Today, driving home from work, the "Service Engine Soon" light came on. The car runs flawlessly, and I checked to make sure that the fuel cap was tightly closed (it was).
> 
> What gives?
> 
> --Phil





Philm35 said:


> Mine came on yesterday afternoon, and was on all day today. It's going in to the dealership on Thursday to get looked at. I'll let you know if I learn anything.


There is an existing service campaign for SES codes (a campaign sticker with the 560 code is affixed to the drivers side B-pillar when the campaign is performed). And a new campaign appears to be on-the-way per this thread: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5508424#post5508424 You may have either or both issues. In any event, a trip to the dealer is in order.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Yeah, just take it in and find out. My car had one of those software updates done recently but never at least had the symptoms that it would fix.


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## Philm35 (Aug 19, 2010)

Got the car in to be looked at today. Turns out that the DEF valve was stuck closed, due to crystalized DEF in the works. Dealer cleaned out the valve, and all is back to normal. I wonder if this happened because the car was built in May of 2010, but I didn't take delivery of it until the end of August. It basically sat in a lot for over 4 months. Hope this won't be a recurring issue.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

My car sat for even longer than that before I bought it and the DEF system is one thing I have not had any issues with. I have heard extreme cold weather can play havoc on the DEF but would think May to August it is not that cold there.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

Philm35 said:


> Got the car in to be looked at today. Turns out that the DEF valve was stuck closed, due to crystalized DEF in the works. Dealer cleaned out the valve, and all is back to normal. I wonder if this happened because the car was built in May of 2010, but I didn't take delivery of it until the end of August. It basically sat in a lot for over 4 months. Hope this won't be a recurring issue.


Thats interesting. Even I thought it crystallizes when its super cold and not used for a week or 2. Can 4 months of summer do that as well.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

bimmerdiesel said:


> Thats interesting. Even I thought it crystallizes when its super cold and not used for a week or 2. Can 4 months of summer do that as well.


My car sat for many months before I got it and it really does not get super cold here to begin with but sitting was more summer/spring time anyway. From what I have read the DEF will not last as long once exposed to heat but not read it will crystallize but that is also not to say I just missed something about that.


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## NCe61 (Jun 23, 2009)

Hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but so be it. Went in for the SES, and they drained and refilled the DEF tank. This after strange DEF and SES messages over the past ten months, and the most recent BMWNA order to "reset and ignore." We feel like a guinea pig. Apparently there is a catalytic converter that may be damaged. Who knew that these cars had catalytic converters?

The good news is that at least in NC 335ds do not require emissions inspections, so the annual state inspection cost about $13, like in the 1970s.

Now the bad news. Perhaps that catalytic converter is bad. I understand this will cost BMW several grand to replace. But, frankly, this might make sense. We are supposed to continue driving and report any more SES or other faults. The next one may lead to the catalytic converter replacement. But I bet the part is only sitting in a German warehouse, so our car will be in the shop for another week.

I love the 335d, but this reliability problem must be solved. And by reliability I mean the ability to drive your car, and not a loaner, every day.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I'd actually not minded the loaners with they had tollway tags for my drive. The way I always looked at it was I am putting miles on someone elses car so I will have a warranty longer on my own. The way the dealers and BMW handled things though is a whole other story on what I minded and get annoyed on. Faulty emissions equipment that is required by the federal government would really begin to aggravate me. Someone on another forum even had their car bought back because BMW could not get the thing to pass the state inspection process that involved an ODBII check of emissions controls.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

NCe61 said:


> Hate to be the harbinger of bad news, but so be it. Went in for the SES, and they drained and refilled the DEF tank. This after strange DEF and SES messages over the past ten months, and the most recent BMWNA order to "reset and ignore." We feel like a guinea pig. Apparently there is a catalytic converter that may be damaged. Who knew that these cars had catalytic converters?
> 
> The good news is that at least in NC 335ds do not require emissions inspections, so the annual state inspection cost about $13, like in the 1970s.
> 
> ...


Way beyond exaggeration here. What you're experiencing isn't the norm, but if you want to the 'harbinger of bad news' for your 'worse than just about everyone else's' experience (except maybe Snipe's), then that's your choice.

My SES light got fixed after a software update. People need to heed what they say before flipping out and trying to cause a stir. THAT is what's annoying.

This 'reliability' problem that you speak of you really should qualify. YOU have this issue, not MANY of the 335d's. Do not lump yourself in with others who have had nothing even remotely close to the issues you have. It's an unfair comparison, and it's wholly inaccurate.

Oh, and you have an '09..you mean the first year they came to the states? Early adopters sometimes pay, right? Doesn't mean you should have to, or expect to, but it's a pretty advanced system that lets our cars come across the pond.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Come on now, I have not had emissions equipment fail .... yet


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Let's not pile up on Snipe! I think he might enjoy it.:rofl:

Agreed folks. If you have a problem post it, but don't make it sound like the sky is falling when you appear to be the only one that has suffered from this problem.:bawling:

Want to talk reliability? I have driven my car every single day I have had it and wanted to drive it and I have now 16,000 miles and have stopped for service once which took 24 hours (an overnighter) with a loaner, and all two of my issues were solved. An intermittent right blinker bulb and a SES light that came on about 2 or 3 times during the first few months.

I'm sorry NCe61, but I'm just not yet at that point of saying we have a reliability problem.:jack:

I'll be one of the first to admit there is a problem.

I have to rate my 335d as 100% reliable and 99.9% available, by definition.

But the cup holder still sucks!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

My car actually has not had any new problems in awhile but I also typically only drive it on Saturdays so not put a lot of use on it. I am sitting around 10.5k miles right now. I still get the random issue of the transmission not engaging when first starting the car after it has been parked for days/weeks. That has happened only 3-4 times with the last being this morning and that one was the shortest instance, dealer has no explanation but did not think they would for something so random. I still have no reason for why it lost a qt of oil and given when the next oil change is and the amount I drive it then it might be a long time to see if that repeats but at least know it is not leaking it and dealer claims not burning it. Now with that said in the almost one year I have owned this car it has been in the shop more than my truck(guess put around 25-30k miles this year on it, sitting just shy of 160k right now) has been and by a large margin. But I blame the dealerships and corporate for those long periods of time and not the car itself, but regardless that is where my aggravation stems from.

I can't help but wonder if this is more a sensor issue that is making it seem like a bad cat. Cats tend not to go bad so quickly, that is just really odd for any car. If it is a sensor issue then would wonder if any way related to that one time issue where a car would not pass emission testing due to a sensor issue which would lead me to believe some programming issue. If software issue then I am all too familiar with those, after all I own a 6.0 PSD truck ......


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

I've got almost 32k on my car (bought it in Dec, btw), and the SES that was fixed with the software update are the only real issue I've had (I've had the Start/Stop Engine button replaced due to peeling, and the same for the window controls area, but that could happen on any car, and the materials on the inside are no different in the d than the other 3 series).

Some of us have beaten our cars to death already, and the car keeps taking it. I know Chris falls into a similar category.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

What ever happened to the guy on here who was some sort of technician who had to routinely drive his car on really long hauls. He came to the car from I think it was a TDI Jetta wagon. The guy once pee'd in his DEF tanks to refill them. Seemed like he was on here up until around 55k miles and then just disappeared. Always got the impression he really beat on the thing.


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

I drove mine around the VIR full course this weekend at a BMWCCA HPDS. Nice pull exiting the twisties and reached 125-130 in the straights. Then I averaged 41 mpg (trip computer) during the 1.75 hour drive home. 

I'm no mechanic, and maybe its all in my head, but I did have the impression that the engine somehow seemed happier and smoother by the end of the weekend. Maybe the lesson here is that y'all need to cheer up your cars by taking them on a date to a race track.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

18k miles, daily driven, 8 months of ownership, early 2009 model and ready for 2nd service in 1k miles... touch wood no trouble till date except for 1 replacement tire due to bubble on sidewall on front passenger RFT. Will I call it reliable, given BMW reputation with other cars definitely yes. Will I buy it again: not if 320d or 330d or A4 TDI are available in 4-5 yrs


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I do not really consider a tire issue anything related to the cars. I might be on my second flat since I got the car, had to add 6lbs or so to one tire this week and waiting to see if it repeats. I just need 2 more flats to pay off that wheel/tire warranty.


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

Philm35 said:


> Got the car in to be looked at today. Turns out that the DEF valve was stuck closed, due to crystalized DEF in the works. Dealer cleaned out the valve, and all is back to normal. I wonder if this happened because the car was built in May of 2010, but I didn't take delivery of it until the end of August. It basically sat in a lot for over 4 months. Hope this won't be a recurring issue.


Which valve was this? Would it be possible that if this valve was left closed that the DEF level would stay full? And since the car would still register DEF present in the system it wouldn't go into limp mode? Just curious . . .


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

I think he's referring to dosage valve which controls amount of fluid injected into exhaust. NOx sensor would detect trigger error if emissions were out of spec. I had a problem with recirculating pump between active and passive tank - posted some time while back.


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

It sounded like even though there was an emission related issue the engine was not in "limp mode". If the only consequence (ignoring elevated NOx emissions) of this is an engine light and you live in an area that doesn't have annual emission tests . . . it might be an acceptable situation for some people when they're out of the warranty period?


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

So really the thing to do would be to trick that NOx sensor into giving false readings that read for no DEF injection. If someone wanted to go and try to get around such things that is. Would only be a "tad" illegal to do but most people who mod cars tend to overlook such things as being "wrong"


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> So really the thing to do would be to trick that NOx sensor into giving false readings that read for no DEF injection. If someone wanted to go and try to get around such things that is. Would only be a "tad" illegal to do but most people who mod cars tend to overlook such things as being "wrong"


Right. It would be for "Off Road" purposes only.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

But of course and it would allow for an "off-road" exhaust as well ...


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

It's not impossible. Already on my list of things to ummm...research


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Where does the DEF enter into the exhaust? From the explanations I have seen online it seems like a catback could be bolted onto the car and not interfere with the system. But also seems like the system must introduce a heck of a restriction to the exhaust, no wonder the sound out the tailpipe is practically non existant.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> Where does the DEF enter into the exhaust? From the explanations I have seen online it seems like a catback could be bolted onto the car and not interfere with the system. But also seems like the system must introduce a heck of a restriction to the exhaust, no wonder the sound out the tailpipe is practically non existant.


Not sure on the first part, but I'm certain the second part is by BMW design. Much like the i's exhaust note is one of its defining features, so is the engine growl on the d.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> Where does the DEF enter into the exhaust? From the explanations I have seen online it seems like a catback could be bolted onto the car and not interfere with the system. But also seems like the system must introduce a heck of a restriction to the exhaust, no wonder the sound out the tailpipe is practically non existant.


DEF enters the system after Particulate Filter and before SCR-Catalyst, NOx Sensor is after SCR-Catalyst


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> Where does the DEF enter into the exhaust? From the explanations I have seen online it seems like a catback could be bolted onto the car and not interfere with the system. But also seems like the system must introduce a heck of a restriction to the exhaust, no wonder the sound out the tailpipe is practically non existant.


There's a schematic of the emission controls on slide 16 of this presentation...

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/deer_2007/session4/deer07_mattes.pdf


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks, I had seen the schematic awhile back but forgot where I saw it. Looking at those still makes me believe this must introduce a decent amount of restriction to the system.


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## János (Jun 19, 2010)

Stugots said:


> Oh, and you have an '09..you mean the first year they came to the states? Early adopters sometimes pay, right? Doesn't mean you should have to, or expect to, but it's a pretty advanced system that lets our cars come across the pond.


I know the emissions system is new to the US, but wasn't the 335d on the roads in Europe well before it came to the US?

I try to avoid version "1" of anything, but thought the 2009 builds probably had most bugs worked out (except perhaps for the US emissions system).

Odd then, that I bought a car that was actually made in 2008. 

I've had it in the shop for one week, to fix a few minor things and to do some reprogramming. I was told that one of the replaced components was a 'prototype' that wasn't in production.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

János said:


> I know the emissions system is new to the US, but wasn't the 335d on the roads in Europe well before it came to the US?
> 
> I try to avoid version "1" of anything, but thought the 2009 builds probably had most bugs worked out (except perhaps for the US emissions system).
> 
> ...


The car itself was in Europe for a bit before it hit the US, but the Urea system is new to the car with the US. And, my 2010 was built in 2009...the model years don't coincide with the actual build year of the car. Not sure what your car being built in 2008 has anything to do with anything.  You still, technically, bought a first year car, but as I said, that doesn't necessarily mean you should have to go through the growing pains. The engine in the 335d is tried, tested, and true. The DEF bits are not.


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## magungo (Nov 16, 2009)

Yeah, I've had to deal with the stuck valve 3 times so far. I've only had my car since November.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

At that point I'd begin to think something else is wrong and causing it to get stuck.


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## anE934fun (May 10, 2008)

Snipe656 said:


> At that point I'd begin to think something else is wrong and causing it to get stuck.


+1. The unknown is whether the dealer is up to diagnosing what the something else that is wrong is.


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