# Just when you thought it couldn't get any better... (More New Incentive$ Announced)



## lisalisa57 (Mar 25, 2006)

Can anyone confirm this, but if i was already locked into october rates/res. can i still use the loyalty enhanced program that was added a few days ago? 

thanks!


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

lisalisa57 said:


> Can anyone confirm this, but if i was already locked into october rates/res. can i still use the loyalty enhanced program that was added a few days ago?
> 
> thanks!


Sorry Lisa, incompatible with October lock. If the whole structure is more favorable to you
currently, however, you are not locked into your October lock!





hyperzulu said:


> Thanks for that clarification, Jon. I guess maybe it'll help others on the fence. I ordered a car two months ago. I think I'm about as captive as they come. I was good with the deal I made and the mission to drive is icing. I don't need a better deal.


The intent of the newer programs is really just that, spurn incremental sales for month-end and year-end numbers...


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## lisalisa57 (Mar 25, 2006)

hi jon,

was the december res and mf still same as november? greg, did lock me in for the oct rates, but if that can not be combined with the enhanced loyalty, i should stick with the current one right? i just noticed that oct had higher residuals but not the extra $1k mission to drive.

thanks
lisa


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

lisalisa57 said:


> hi jon,
> 
> was the december res and mf still same as november? greg, did lock me in for the oct rates, but if that can not be combined with the enhanced loyalty, i should stick with the current one right? i just noticed that oct had higher residuals but not the extra $1k mission to drive.
> 
> ...


November and December share basic lease parameters. It's hard to say exactly without plugging all of the numbers in which way will serve you
best (between the October locked program rates and current offerings); have your CA analyze and compare which way will yield the best results
for your payment goals.


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## lisalisa57 (Mar 25, 2006)

Jon Shafer said:


> November and December share basic lease parameters. It's hard to say exactly without plugging all of the numbers in which way will serve you best (between the October locked program rates and current offerings); have your CA analyze and compare which way will yield the best results for your payment goals.


thanks jon,


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## schnell525 (Feb 6, 2007)

I talked to my BMW guy on 12/2 and could be close to a deal but he didn't mention anything new, but did tell me he hadn't had a chance to look at the new numbers..... If he's holding out, that's not good. Benz is carrying over conquest money too from what I've heard.

So, is there 4k on top of 7 series than in November? I'm using 4k, since MB is offering the same amount (as Conquest) for S Class and GL Class, and 2k on whatever else.

Hmm.....


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## sdg1871 (Mar 9, 2009)

Jon Shafer said:


> November and December share basic lease parameters. It's hard to say exactly without plugging all of the numbers in which way will serve you
> best (between the October locked program rates and current offerings); have your CA analyze and compare which way will yield the best results
> for your payment goals.


Jon, thanks for the invaluable information you provide. :thumbup:

We understand that you provide as much as you safely can.


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

Jon, thanks for the information you have been able to provide. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for further details to trickle out to the net and onto this board.

I'm looking to pick up a '11 328i sedan, so the sooner the better! (you don't deliver to the PacNW do you?  )


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

GPErnie said:


> Jon, thanks for the information you have been able to provide. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for further details to trickle out to the net and onto this board.
> 
> I'm looking to pick up a '11 328i sedan, so the sooner the better! (you don't deliver to the PacNW do you?  )


Actually I do...

:bigpimp:

You can peruse our remaining inventory of 2011 sedans here: http://www.bmwsantabarbara.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&make=BMW


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

just so everyone knows it's very hard for us to "keep the incentives"... the option credits "allowances" are posted on BMW USA as well as the "Mission to drive" $. Also the Mission $ MUST BE PUT ON CONTRACT AS A REBATE or customer will not get it.

Yes it's possible for a dealer to keep all or a portion of option allowance if they have a customer that is not internet savvy or hasn't done any homework... but in my business with my clients I have found it's best to just provide all info. upfront.. I like to keep my credibility solid and business on the up and up


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## nmd (Dec 27, 2006)

Do these incentives apply to European Delivery?


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

We're talking now on a X3. My CA says newly announced incentives are for conquest customers only--more or less equal to the loyalty benefits for which I already qualify. The X3 is still more more than Audi Q5 so we have a decision to make.

I had really hoped that any new incentives would help narrow the price gap.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

nmd said:


> Do these incentives apply to European Delivery?


My guess is not. They said I could not lock in the loyalty rebate for a PCD order. My CA says they are trying to stimulate closing by the end of the calendar year. That limits it pretty much to stock or in transit vehicles, according to my understanding.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

I have two leases maturing: 09 328i in mid March and an 08 M3 on 4/30. Is there any automatic waiving of the last 3 payments if I lease one or two new cars before Jan 3, or is that something that has to be negotiated? I had about decided to purchase both cars at end of lease but if final payments are waived in addition to the incentives already out there, I will probably change my mind.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

I just got an email from dealer number 2 stating they CAN lock the loyalty, option, and Mission to Drive credits. I want to believe #2 but not sure who is correct at this point.


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## j3ff (Nov 20, 2011)

pistolpuma said:


> We're talking now on a X3. My CA says newly announced incentives are for conquest customers only--more or less equal to the loyalty benefits for which I already qualify. The X3 is still more more than Audi Q5 so we have a decision to make.
> 
> I had really hoped that any new incentives would help narrow the price gap.


you might try to compare the vehicles at truedelta.com - it allows you to factor out the differences in cost of accessories and options to get a better picture of the price differential. then you know it's the engine that explains the remaining difference.


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## jnr (Nov 23, 2006)

I know that loyalty and enhanced loyalty can be used for any car, but are the "extra special" factory to dealer incentives available for M3s?

I ask since a lot of the BMW incentives seem to be weak or non- existent for M3s at the moment.


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## danzzz (Jan 16, 2007)

Question:

My car won't be delivered until late Febuary, the dealer said I'd then lose the loytalty credit since I missed the "1/3/12 deadline". However, they did give me finance rebate of $1,000. But some folks here mentioned that the dealer can actually "LOCK" the loyalty credit, is that true? Or BMW might extend the deadline like what they did on lease mature date (from Feb. to Apr) for loytalty program.

Thanks!


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## bzcat (Sep 23, 2009)

danzzz said:


> Question:
> 
> My car won't be delivered until late Febuary, the dealer said I'd then lose the loytalty credit since I missed the "1/3/12 deadline". However, they did give me finance rebate of $1,000. But some folks here mentioned that the dealer can actually "LOCK" the loyalty credit, is that true? Or BMW might extend the deadline like what they did on lease mature date (from Feb. to Apr) for loytalty program.
> 
> Thanks!


If you apply for credit with BMW FS and get approved before 1/3/12, you "lock" the $1,000 mission to drive rebate and the $1,000 loyalty rebate. These have nothing to do with the dealer per se... they are rebates from BMW. If you already order the car but haven't applied for credit, you need to do it soon (before 1/3/12).

The super secret enhanced incentive that people are discussing in this thread _appears_ to only apply to deliveries before the end of the year so you probably won't qualify. But it doesn't hurt to ask.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

j3ff said:


> you might try to compare the vehicles at truedelta.com - it allows you to factor out the differences in cost of accessories and options to get a better picture of the price differential. then you know it's the engine that explains the remaining difference.


I'm not familiar with that site but will check it. Thanks. 
The problem is I am trying to configure it according to my wife's "gotta have" options. Audi does a good job of doing that in one package. With BMW, you have to order multiple packages which in turn add a bunch of extra stuff that she doesn't want or need e.g. Audi has leather seats and decent wheels standard. With BMW, you need to order the Activity Pkg to get decent looking wheels, and spend an extra $1400 for leather. It takes all of the $2500 in rebates that I qualify for to get the X3 close to the discounted Audi price...and it still is high.
As for the engine/handling...my wife doesn't appreciate the subtle difference. It has a great interior, has great fit/finish, and starts when she pushes the button. That's all she cares about. And I love her anyway...


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dtc100 said:


> I don't think MB has a similar restriction though. They knew we have an MB, wanted to trade in for another SUV, and we qualify for their conquest because our other car is a BMW.
> 
> Although the discussion has not gone down the wire yet so who knows.


Let's have a very serious discussion. Does Mercedes offer Free Maintenance?

Is the car for you or your The Mrs.?

How important is the handling/performance of the vehicle in the decision-making process?

:dunno:


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dtc100 said:


> I was joking if you did not see that  Jon.
> 
> But in all seriousness, I just saw BMW's November sales figures, while the SUV sales were way way up, their car sales were way down. What is BMW waiting for, while there are still tons of 2011 3ers on the lot?
> 
> Wait till the next spring when the new F30s arrive so they can be sold as used cars?


No problem. What will happen to "the leftovers" at the end of the year?

Many will find homes as BMW Service Loaner vehicles as final incentives will have passed and lease terms unworkable... 
The cars will be "punched" RDR'd (Retail Delivery Report) as "sold", everyone's numbers will jump.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

Jon Shafer said:


> Let's have a very serious discussion. Does Mercedes offer Free Maintenance?
> 
> Is the car for you or your The Mrs.?
> 
> ...


I have done three oil changes in the past three years at our local Jiffy Lube for $110 a pop, $135 for an alignment, no big deal when the vehicle is new.

I have tried to convince her the X3 is more fun to drive, my words have fallen on deaf's ears.. Meanwhile there are hardly any X3s available. WTF is BMW thinking?

Now there are certainly many 2011 3s around, but the MFs are some of the highest I have seen. What they do is give a 0.00075 discount, but only if you have one comes off lease in the next three months.

Jon please tell me the BMW bean counters actually saw their November sales results and noticed the sales of both the 3 and 5 were way off.

Can they really turn most of them into loaners on the 31st and count them as new sales?


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

Is a dealer really going to be super excited and gushing about the super secret stuff he has to offer me, and why a $500 over ED invoice with $13,500 in advertised credits/rebates and $1000 in owner loyalty just isn't good enough, and he can do so much better if only I get on the phone/email to him today?

I just can't imagine the conversation going from that type of order, to "wait a minute...BMW has some top secret stuff here, just so you know I'm going to take another $1500 off, hope that's ok with you." For a company [BMW], that supposedly wants to sell more cars, and has serious competition from MB, you would think they would tell people, 'hey, we want to sell cars, this is what we're offering.' Since nobody is saying anything, it doesn't really motivate me to get a car I don't need, but if the numbers were right, I would. Oh well, maybe MB will win and BMW will try harder next time.

Also, regarding conquest, if that is $1500, or $4000, or whatever it is, or isn't, what if we just pretend I have an MB, or if need be, show up to the dealer in one...not that I ever actually go inside a dealership...would that work?


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

Jon Shafer said:


> Come on, there is no misinformation here. I stated up front what Conquest was all about, who it is intended for, and when it applies.
> 
> This is to be differentiated from the "super secret stuff" which is quite exciting if you are on the fence and you are ready to take home a car this month.
> 
> I know it must be frustrating that you can't know everything.... The message is still pretty clear (and exciting) for buyers during the month of December.


Jon, you're right, it is frustrating! We want to know all! 

But in all seriousness, is there any chance you can provide a bit more gloss on the possible incentives? For example, should I presume Conquest $ is the same amount as existing OLP (e.g., $1k on a 328)? There are indeed some of us on this board that own a MB but not yet a BMW. (i know - the horror!)

And other than Conquest $, can you provide any further hints re what else is available to get a MB owner like me into a 328 before year end? I'm right there on the fence, but if I don't have a clue what we are talking about, its difficult to jump off!


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

... But if you can't, thanks for at least giving us a heads up! :thumbup:


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

If I have a BMW lease terminating 3/10/12, do the 'secret probation' incentives contemplate a lease pull ahead if I take delivery prior to 1/3/12? Will BMW allow me to turn my current BMW lease in without paying the next few payments?


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

Will the special "insane factory to dealer incentives" allow dealers to discount cars to ED prices before incentives? So in essence 7%-8% below US invoice? Its not relevant for the 750iAH as there's no way you can possibly take delivery of one in December. From What I have gathered in the recent threads the below incentives are available in December.

- Mission to Drive
- Option credits
- Eco-credits
- Enhanced loyalty
- BMW CCA
- Conquest cash
- Factory to dealer incentives
- Trunk money on some models
- Possible additional cash from 12/22 to 01/03

Combine once or more of the above with ED and Max MSD's and you have an excellent deal. I dont see how "anyone" can lose with the above. BMW has basically made it possible for EVERY buyer out there to get a great deal. I do not qualify for loyalty or conquest but I can get MTD, option credits, eco-credits and MSD's with ED pricing. 

Yes, I would like to know if there's a potential for more money savings for me, but do I feel like I lost? NO.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

I think I have said before several times that what I am referring to would require actually physical delivery by the end of December (1/3/12),
which rules out ED, ordering a car, etc.



carman26 said:


> If I have a BMW lease terminating 3/10/12, do the 'secret probation' incentives contemplate a lease pull ahead if I take delivery prior to 1/3/12? Will BMW allow me to turn my current BMW lease in without paying the next few payments?


You are contractually liable for remaining payments due under the terms of your original lease...


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

Jon Shafer said:


> I think I have said before several times that what I am referring to would require actually physical delivery by the end of December (1/3/12),
> which rules out ED, ordering a car, etc.


I understand, but what I am asking is will a dealer be able to discount the car 7-8% off the US Invoice before incentives such as option credits, loyalty, etc. if I am willing to take delivery on 12/30/2011 from dealer inventory.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

iwantone said:


> I understand, but what I am asking is will a dealer be able to discount the car 7-8% off the US Invoice before incentives such as option credits, loyalty, etc. if I am willing to take delivery on 12/30/2011 from dealer inventory.


It all depends on what your dealer is willing to do. I know it's a difficult concept for you all to wrap brains around.
It is _discretionary_... Sorry.


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

Jon Shafer said:


> It all depends on what your dealer is willing to do. I know it's a difficult concept for you all to wrap brains around.
> It is _discretionary_... Sorry.


So I guess all the dealers have a bagof money they can dig into as required to sell the cars....excellent.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

iwantone said:


> ....excellent.


The year-end fifty yard dash.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

For me personally, it would take a pull-ahead program to get me to do something before the end of the year. The MF reduction is nice but the base rates are so much higher than what I got on my M3 three years ago. Also, given I would have to take a car from current dealer stock limits my choices. I would want to lease another M3 and there aren't alot of those sitting around on the lots right now (at least, not where I live).


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

NASA43 said:


> For me personally, it would take a pull-ahead program to get me to do something before the end of the year. The MF reduction is nice but the base rates are so much higher than what I got on my M3 three years ago. Also, given I would have to take a car from current dealer stock limits my choices. I would want to lease another M3 and there aren't alot of those sitting around on the lots right now (at least, not where I live).


What he said


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## davelip75 (Oct 27, 2011)

How does this effect someone looking to buy their 1st BMW, who's been driving a Toyota for 10+ years? Sadly I don't see that this "secret offer" does...


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

davelip75 said:


> How does this effect someone looking to buy their 1st BMW, who's been driving a Toyota for 10+ years? Sadly I don't see that this "secret offer" does...


From my understanding there are 2 parts to this "secret offer"

1 - Conquest cash
2 - Dealers allocated budget to offer incentives to customers based on their discretion regardless of loyalty, conquest, model, etc.

I agree with you - BMW must help customers like you (and me) make the decision to move up....


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

Just talked to a "Internet Sales Manger," according to him, the best deals are in the following order if you qualify:

0.00075+0.0003 mf reduction deal.
$1,500 conquest deal.
$1,000 loyalty deal.

They cannot be combined, but if you qualify for more than one, you may use the better deal.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

dtc100 said:


> Just talked to a "Internet Sales Manger," according to him, the best deals are in the following order if you qualify:
> 
> 0.00075+0.0003 mf reduction deal.
> $1,500 conquest deal.
> ...


Did the ISM mention whether the conquest was for any non-loyal buyer (ie you don't have to drive a Merc, Audi or Lexus)?


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

dtc100 said:


> Just talked to a "Internet Sales Manger," according to him, the best deals are in the following order if you qualify:
> 
> 0.00075+0.0003 mf reduction deal.
> $1,500 conquest deal.
> ...


Like Jon said...if you qualify for loyalty, how can you qualify for conquest ?

On the other hand..surprising that it is $1500 regardless of model...

Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

iwantone said:


> Like Jon said...if you qualify for loyalty, how can you qualify for conquest ?
> 
> On the other hand..surprising that it is $1500 regardless of model...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer


What if you owned both a BMW and a Lexus?


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## Pelucida (Sep 20, 2011)

iwantone said:


> Like Jon said...if you qualify for loyalty, how can you qualify for conquest ?
> 
> On the other hand..surprising that it is $1500 regardless of model...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer


Just confirmed with the new car manager at the dealership. $1500 in conquest for the 5 series lineup. He said he really doesn't care which incentive he puts through, loyalty or conquest, as I technically qualify for both. He just wants the sale and repeat business down the road :rofl: So when I take delivery next week, looks like I will be going with conquest over loyalty.

He said he didn't have any further factory incentives at the time. :dunno: But who knows? My guess is that these incentives are ONLY for folks who have not yet ordered a vehicle and are meant to entice the shoppers who stroll into the dealership within the next couple weeks.

Oh, and I'm not leasing, but if I was, I would have definitely taken the rate over the cash.


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## NewNole2001 (Nov 18, 2011)

Pelucida said:


> Just confirmed with the new car manager at the dealership. $1500 in conquest for the 5 series lineup. He said he really doesn't care which incentive he puts through, loyalty or conquest, as I technically qualify for both. He just wants the sale and repeat business down the road :rofl: So when I take delivery next week, looks like I will be going with conquest over loyalty.
> 
> He said he didn't have any further factory incentives at the time. :dunno: But who knows? My guess is that these incentives are ONLY for folks who have not yet ordered a vehicle and are meant to entice the shoppers who stroll into the dealership within the next couple weeks.
> 
> Oh, and I'm not leasing, but if I was, I would have definitely taken the rate over the cash.


Emailed my CA to see if there is anything new available for me on my 328i e93 order from last week. Will report back.


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

So the $1500 is confirmed for all models...

Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

iwantone said:


> So the $1500 is confirmed for all models...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer


Is it? Anyone, anyone?


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

iwantone said:


> So the $1500 is confirmed for all models...
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I997 using Bimmer


Not on X3/X5.


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## NewNole2001 (Nov 18, 2011)

NewNole2001 said:


> Emailed my CA to see if there is anything new available for me on my 328i e93 order from last week. Will report back.


Nothing available for me with a February delivery date.


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## fq (Nov 9, 2003)

Jon, I posted the following in a difefrent thread yesterday but you probably never saw it. Here is my question:

Is there enough X5 product out there or being produced to warrant extra Sales Support? Or is the current push just for the (non-SUV) cars? Just curious if I should waste time with a dealer to get an X5 or go get another GL450 (my current GL450 lease is ending in 3 weeks) for which MB is bending over backwards to make deals. Thanks!


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

fq said:


> Jon, I posted the following in a difefrent thread yesterday but you probably never saw it. Here is my question:
> 
> Is there enough X5 product out there or being produced to warrant extra Sales Support? Or is the current push just for the (non-SUV) cars? Just curious if I should waste time with a dealer to get an X5 or go get another GL450 (my current GL450 lease is ending in 3 weeks) for which MB is bending over backwards to make deals. Thanks!


I know what you mean, I heard MB is offering a $4,000 conquest on the GL450.

You would not get the $1,500 conquest for the X5, but at least there are more X5s on the lot than the X3s, the dealer might be more willing to work with you on the price.

We need an X3, talk about bad luck. Heck I might just get a 27-mo. lease on another 328i and be done with it.


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## RaysMD (Dec 26, 2001)

So what about an 2011 m3 sedan?

I currently have, $1k loyalty and 1.5k build out cash. Can anything top this.


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## Runon MD1 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Year end sales promotions*

there aren't alot of those sitting around[/QUOTE]

But are there a lot of them sitting around is the question.


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## Runon MD1 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Year end sales promotions*



davelip75 said:


> How does this effect someone looking to buy their 1st BMW,...
> 
> What you really want to know is how it affects someone looking to buy his (or her) first BMW.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Turn off your computer and step outside of your home this instant.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Runon MD1 said:


> davelip75 said:
> 
> 
> > How does this effect someone looking to buy their 1st BMW,...
> ...


I didn't realize that bimmerfest hired a Grammar Moderator?  :tsk:

It's pretty sad that many of your ~150 posts are just correcting other posters on the grammar in their posts.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

dtc100 said:


> Not on X3/X5.


That's what my dealer says too.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

NewNole2001 said:


> Nothing available for me with a February delivery date.


You should qualify for Mission to Drive and option credits.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

dtc100 said:


> I know what you mean, I heard MB is offering a $4,000 conquest on the GL450.
> 
> You would not get the $1,500 conquest for the X5, but at least there are more X5s on the lot than the X3s, the dealer might be more willing to work with you on the price.
> 
> We need an X3, talk about bad luck. Heck I might just get a 27-mo. lease on another 328i and be done with it.


Cars are out there if you are flexible on option choices. $1000 loyalty, 500 MTD, $500 BMWCCA and $455 option credits are still pretty good on a "hot" seller. Even if you order for delivery after 3 Jan you would still qualify for everythin' but the loyalty.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

Runon MD1 said:


> davelip75 said:
> 
> 
> > How does this effect someone looking to buy their 1st BMW,...
> ...


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## Runon MD1 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Year-end sales promotion*

To IWantOne:

This is in response to one of your previous postings on this thread.

Rather than go from MSRP down by 7% on an ED, I think you would probably be better off working up from ED dealer invoice. Many Board sponsors can assist you in that regard, including, but not limited to (in no particular order) Irv Robinson, Jon Shafer, Greg Poland, Adrian Avila, and many others...i.e. Chris Conroy/Philippe Kahn. Check the ED thread.

Many will quote you $500 above invoice, with some going to $750-$1000 above.

You would probably be best off working with someone close to your location, assuming all else is equal...just my two cents...perhaps others will comment further.

Richard


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

-.00075 -.0003 -.00049 MF? 

I would hit that


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

bmw325 said:


> Cool..how much of an incentive do you typically have to offer to the tranferee? Pay the BMWFS tranfer fee, etc?


I usually price my leases around 15% less than current new leases at invoice, taking into account the usual public incentives, with comparable terms. Assumptee pays all fees and security deposits. So if a current car leases at $500 per month, I'll ask for the equivalent of $425 a month. To date, the assumptee has always given me a little more, since I get my cars on the cheap via ED. But the expense to do a new ED is in the thousands of $$$ excluding the lease payment, all things considered. But if you ask me, I can twist things around to show how it's cost effective. I should work at Enron.

You may want to start another thread, and have others also weigh in. Don't want to cluster this up since most folks are looking for current incentives and deals. Even though some folks may be wanting to get out of their leases to get into those deals.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

Question: There is obviously some type of incentive from BMW this year driving dealers to want to lease/sell as many cars as they can before the end of the year. Does this desire apply only to vehicles currently in their inventory or would a dealer be equally willing to make a great deal on an "unclaimed/unsold" new vehicle in the delivery pipeline? The only car I would be interested in replacing my M3 sedan with is a 2012 M3 coupe. Is there a good supply of M3's shipping now or are they hard to come by? I have 4 more payments on my 08 M3 sedan.

Hope that makes sense.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

fq said:


> No problem, and thanks for the reply. Hope your back feels better.
> 
> Since SUVs are demasiado caliente, would in your view a dealer deal on an SUV to make/exceed overall sales numbers, or are BMWNA's sales goals model/series-specific? Sorry for hammering on this as I am trying to decide if it is even worth it to go through the torturous ordeal of a dealership visit and the constant back/forth drama of sales guy "asking" his GM and bringing counteroffers, if I am going to be $100 higher (on the lease) with a similar MSRP X5 relative to a GL450. After being away from BMW for the past 4/5 years, I want to come back but at only a reasonable premium for BMW over an MB, not the premium I can calculate based on the information that is publicly available (and excluding the hidden incentives).


Yes, for sure. You could likely negotiate a deal now that you couldn't/wouldn't get just a couple of months ago...

Again, sorry for slow email replies. I've been inundated by questions from all over the country, and I try to answer all of them in order... :-/

As far as inquiries from buyers go, I am really focusing my new "practice" on West Coast/Western Region buyers. I am flattered by the outpouring of support members all over, however, BMW of Santa Barbara is a small store, and we don't have a huge allocation like the LA/San Gabriel Valley Mega-Centers..


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

NASA43 said:


> Question: There is obviously some type of incentive from BMW this year driving dealers to want to lease/sell as many cars as they can before the end of the year. Does this desire apply only to vehicles currently in their inventory or would a dealer be equally willing to make a great deal on an "unclaimed/unsold" new vehicle in the delivery pipeline? The only car I would be interested in replacing my M3 sedan with is a 2012 M3 coupe. Is there a good supply of M3's shipping now or are they hard to come by? I have 4 more payments on my 08 M3 sedan.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Incoming cars would work. Your challenge is that there are ridiculously few M3s available..

Back to The Inbox for me...


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## Mikla (Nov 20, 2011)

Tell me about it. I'm also trying to find an M3 with a 6SPD. It's almost impossible.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Mikla said:


> Tell me about it. I'm also trying to find an M3 with a 6SPD. It's almost impossible.


In some configurations, it IS impossible...

:-/

Thank God for ED. They may have tightened up there too, though. The last year of a E36 M3 like mine ('99) was a short production run.


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

chrischeung said:


> I transfer/sell my leases. I can fully justify it financially (to my wife) - but in actual fact, you are losing some money all things considered with all the fees, time and expenses.


Not if you get out before you need new tires


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

You can just get a used set on eBay for turn in.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

chrischeung said:


> You can just get a used set on eBay for turn in.


Chris, did you take the ED crown away from Beewang?


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I would never presume to take that away from Beewang. In many respects, he is an inspiration to me and others for ED and BMW!

I consider ED like being at a buffet. After the 5th plate, do you really still keep count? I need to go through the cars to actually see where I'm at numberswise. And this ED will also be special. It's the first time for my kids to do ED, and their first time in Europe. And in many ways, the spread laid out in the Premium Lounge will be a buffet to them.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

Jon Shafer said:


> Chris, did you take the ED crown away from Beewang?


I don't ever imagine I would be even close to the crown, but we have decided to wait for the E30 m-sport to come out and do an ED. Is our expectation realistic?

At the meantime I wish you all making killer deals on your new Bimmers.


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

Jon Shafer said:


> You are contractually liable for remaining payments due under the terms of your original lease...


I get that we are responsible for our remaining lease payments but am a bit confounded that the current incentives don't somehow wrap in BMW leasees that are in my same situation.

I was very close to pulling the trigger on a new vehicle (the current incentives are great, etc.) but then we got to the business of my current BMW (3 payments remaining) and that's where everything in the dealmaking stopped abruptly.

My CA even said he is struggling with trying to explain how the program makes sense when his customers are responsible for their remaining lease payments on their current vehicle.

If BMW really has some significant factory to dealer incentives, it seems like there would be cash to help those of us out in this situation (even if they don't call it a 'pull ahead'---just take the equivalent or so off the new car negotiated price). Dollars are dollars; doesn't matter so much how they are allocated.

I mentioned as much to my CA and suggested he talk to his GM and/or GSM. Then, I walked out without a new car! Too bad.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

carman26 said:


> I get that we are responsible for our remaining lease payments but am a bit confounded that the current incentives don't somehow wrap in BMW leasees that are in my same situation.
> 
> I was very close to pulling the trigger on a new vehicle (the current incentives are great, etc.) but then we got to the business of my current BMW (3 payments remaining) and that's where everything in the dealmaking stopped abruptly.
> 
> ...


Thats exactly how I got into my M3 in Oct 2008. I had a 530i lease that didnt end until Feb 2009 and there was no pull-ahead program. There were incredibly low Money Factors on the 08 M3's but it didnt make sense given I had 3 more $570 payments on the 530i. The dealer not only sold me the M3 at below invoice, but he also further reduced the cap cost by $1700 to cover those last 3 payments for me. I couldnt pass that deal up.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

*Slow Email Response*

Sorry to stray off-topic for a second, but I want to share something cool. The more I talk with new BMW buyers from Bimmerfest.com, the more obvious to me it is that nobody is aware of the Bimmerfest Event. I would love for you all to know that besides this site, we run what is arguably the largest BMW-exclusive car show on the planet, now twice a year, May at The Rose Bowl in Pasadena, and August at Ripken Stadium in Maryland. And, every year we raise money through our "Opportunity Drawing" and donate it to a local charity. Well, today I spent a few hours assembling bicycles for underprivileged children, and the money that paid for the bikes really came from you, the Bimmerfest Community... I love the holiday season...

This is me (on the right) and Lou Ventura who is the Founder of Kids and Bikes Foundation.









So, if you sent me an email this afternoon, and you have not received a response, I will get back to business now..

Best regards,
Jon


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

Wow! Way to go Jon!

But...are those Bimmers?


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## randyjstark (Mar 17, 2008)

Congrats Jon, what a nice gift for the holidays! I have been putting off a bike purchase for two years now thinking someone would get me one for my birthday or xmas  -- hasn't happened yet though 

Anyways, Im in the process now of securing a deal on a 2011 328iXdrive sedan 27 month lease... 

Had a few quick questions for you about these *NEW" incentives....

1. Is BMW waiving 1st security deposits? (BMWUSA.com states 0 security deposit but dealer still calculating it in my deal)

2. Is the "pull ahead" program for current lessees that expire in Q1 of 2012 available to all dealers? -- The reason I ask is that one dealer I am working with does not "know" of this program. 

3. What do you think the chances of a change in incentives the last week of Dec. --- perhaps adding more??

Dealer is giving me car 500 above invoice in addition to 2500 more in rebates. - Other closer dealers to me were willing to do 250 over invoice. So, needless to say I am still working on settling on a final number. 

Will be finalizing deal over the next several days for a pickup sometime before 1/1/12... Its quite a drive - 5 hours away, but to me is worth it if I can get everything I want in the car.

Thanks for the info and in building such a great community!


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

randyjstark said:


> Congrats Jon, what a nice gift for the holidays! I have been putting off a bike purchase for two years now thinking someone would get me one for my birthday or xmas  -- hasn't happened yet though
> 
> Anyways, Im in the process now of securing a deal on a 2011 328iXdrive sedan 27 month lease...
> 
> ...


I never charge my customers for a security deposit unless they want to give me one...

That alone says a lot.

I suggest you work with a Bimmerfest Sponsor.


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## randyjstark (Mar 17, 2008)

Jon Shafer said:


> I never charge my customers for a security deposit unless they want to give me one...
> 
> That alone says a lot.
> 
> I suggest you work with a Bimmerfest Sponsor.


The thing is, I am working with a sponsor


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

randyjstark said:


> The thing is, I am working with a sponsor


In that case, I am confident you will work it out...

:angel:

The Psychotherapist part of me encourages you to talk to you CA, explain your understanding,
and give them a chance to make you happy. I bet they will...

I am pleased whenever I read success stories of forum members; I suspect this will be one of them
when all is said and done.

:thumbup:


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

I keep coming back to this thread and wondering, does the $1500 conquest cash come out of dealers pockets, or is this a manufacturer incentive missing the mission to drive style marketing campaign?


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

chrischeung said:


> That may not be best. Did you meet your wife/husband online and have a relationship via email?


Yes, though I have to admit the sex isn't that fulfilling.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

My wife mentioned going into the local dealer to see what we could do trading our 330XI that we bought at the same dealer. After reading these threads, I feel way to unprepared to do so. I like to support the dealer and the CA but I cannot afford to go in unprepared.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

I might keep looking at P cars. GT3 for me and I'll hang onto the M3.


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

deenx said:


> Well.. therein lies the problem ....if the dealers want to make a decent profit, then they need to stop requiring the customer to "beat them" at the negotiation. If that is the requirement, than I could care less if they make anything.


I agree. If you are going to make us play the game, don't cry when we try to win.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

dalekressin said:


> I might keep looking at P cars. GT3 for me and I'll hang onto the M3.


Which one is supposed to be the fun car?


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## j3ff (Nov 20, 2011)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> Great...this is how it should be done. You should be very happy and reward your dealer with repeat business in the future should they continue to treat you right.


i am quite happy with the process so far and very grateful to bimmerfest in helping prepare me. assuming my ongoing and future dealings with the dealer go as smoothly, i will certainly continue to deal with them and recommend them to others.


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## dtc100 (Jan 24, 2011)

GPErnie said:


> I agree. If you are going to make us play the game, don't cry when we try to win.


I agree with Chris, unless we want to see the days car purchases are all done online, I want to support the good dealers and CAs so they will stay in the business.

If I meet a good CA, I would go easy on the final a few hundred of differences, as long as I know I am not ripped off, because I had done the homework.

Maybe I am old fashioned, I like human interaction. The good kind of course. The ones who have no clue what they are selling, or shouldn't be in the sales business in the first place, don't get my money even if it is the best deal I am getting.


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## aray (Mar 8, 2005)

Mikla said:


> I expect the dealer to make some money on a deal (it's a business after all), but I also expect to deal with someone who has two brain cells to rub together and can actually help and not hinder the process.
> 
> Mikla


There are some really interesting thoughts in this thread.

From my perspective I would prefer to work with a local dealer, but Central Florida is pretty much exactly as Mikla describes.

I will pay more to support a local business. I do it every day for other items. However, I require local businesses to provide a higher customer service level with prices in the same galaxy as the rest of the Continental US. My local dealer fails those tests.

As Jon mentioned dealers do get ground down quite a bit, and the public probably has a more adversarial relationship with dealers than just about any other retail industry.

From my perspective, some of that is well deserved. There are some bad eggs out there who ruin it for the good guys.

On the low end -- you can still find smokeless oil for sale in dealer focused publications. The crazy screaming "low low prices" advertisements are still on the radio.

On the high end -- a local dealer felt obligated to tell me that he was only making $X on a deal, when in reality he was making closer to four times that. (It amazes me why people can't just present a price as a price in a negotiation)

I think Cost+ pricing is really the future on high dollar items. The ability for a buyer and seller to look at the deal transparently and say "yep, that'll work for both of us". I have no issue with CA's making a reasonable living, and I want to go into a nice BMW dealership to have my car serviced. I realize that isn't going to happen when the dealer makes $100 on a $75k car.

But, even if the industry switches to internet pricing completely with a cost+ type model, buyers will still be weary of what the actual cost is. Manufacturers are already making that more confusing....hence much of the discussion on this forum. Also, the bad apples will be out there with their own version. I'm thinking back to a local chevy dealer who went to a no-haggle pricing scheme in the 90's....$100 below MSRP.


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## PotBMWer (Jul 17, 2011)

*Will I qualify?*



Jon Shafer said:


> Well, I just posted a little blurb about it on my blog.
> 
> http://thebimmerblog.com/2011/12/02/celebrating-10-years-of-bimmerfest-next-week-2.aspx
> 
> ...


Can you elaborate on who falls under the " The other targeted audience is a whole 'nother class of prospects - folks who don't qualify for OLP ("Conquest Sales"). There's more still, but this is all that I can say at this time. "?.

Should I wait till the 3rd week of dec to check out?. 2 days ago I visited a local dealer and was offered only nav credit of 1700+$1000 on 5er.

I am not a current/past owner of bmw/audi/mb/lx etc.
Hope you are feeling better now !!.

It will be good if we can compile a list of dealers in the NJ area that are offering these incentives.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Damn you guys. I was set on waiting another year for a car but I keep running numbers and I'm getting a really itchy finger. 

Luckily 328i manuals with sport package are almost impossible to find in So Cal. Seems dealers only stock automatics.


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## jagu (Nov 7, 2006)

j3ff said:


> re choosing a dealer and ca:
> i checked out dealerrater.com, found a dealer nearby which was very highly rated, and happened to be a designated bmw center of excellence and had several x3's in stock for me to look over, and then read the reviews of the ca's there. all the reviews were positive, so i chose the ca with the most reviews- i figured the busiest guy knew how to get a deal done. i made an appointment to go in because i had a few things that i needed to check out in person- did i like the sport seats [yes], the hud [no], etc. i then got my laptop, sat down, and went through my order. we agreed on what the msrp was. i used the amex pricing service on the dealer's wifi to check offers available. he asked me for an offer, i told him to give me a price, he was within $100 of the lowest available from a dealer 150mi away. i said ok. we then went through the lease terms, took off the $500 cap credit, plugged in the base money factor [no markup] i'd gotten from ridewithg.com, subtracted the .00049 for 7 security deposits, plugged in the residual i'd gotten from bimmerfest.com. i loaded it all into a spreadsheet i'd downloaded at bimmerfest, while he plugged it into his computer. i asked for other upfront charges and raised my eyebrow at the 499 doc fee, let him know i thought it was high but let it go. i then asked for a printout of all the numbers and caught an extra 200 added onto the minimum acquisition fee. he removed that. done. signed the documents, requested he set up pcd, and left about 2 hours after i'd walked in. no time wasted on either side.


This is exactly how I bought my car. I used truecar.com and even got $100 gas card from truecar. I did everything by email and phone through a very professional ca whom I'd never met and drove 100 miles to pick the car up the next day.

I don't sit around at the dealer's office negotiating because I know my parameters before ever going in and I always have alternatives if it doesn't work out.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Adrian and Jon
If I head in on Jon's advice, to my local dealer for the December BMW sales event with the intention of getting a sweet deal on a 2012 M3 coupe in their inventory, will I be pleased I did OR will I become motivated to do ED again?


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

In addition to the financing, cash, etc. that's been mentioned, are there any other December only tools in the dealer's box to help move the cars? For example, discounted satellite radio activation or something? Just want to make sure we're not overlooking any other "sweeteners" that might get someone over the hump. Thanks.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Yes. Dealers are authorized to throw in a set of fuzzy dice with any deal. :dunno: Seriously, if you qualify for any or all of this, what's $200 over the length of a car loan? Stop messing about and go buy a car already!


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## Mikla (Nov 20, 2011)

:rofl:


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

hyperzulu said:


> Yes. Dealers are authorized to throw in a set of fuzzy dice with any deal. :dunno: Seriously, if you qualify for any or all of this, what's $200 over the length of a car loan? Stop messing about and go buy a car already!


Well, first of all, it's more like $500 to have satellite activated ($375 for the code, plus installation). Regardless, what's the matter with having additional information? Isnt that what this board is supposed to be about?

In any event, are they BMW dice?


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## Mikla (Nov 20, 2011)

Okay, THAT was funny! :bustingup


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

GPErnie said:


> Well, first of all, it's more like $500 to have satellite activated ($375 for the code, plus installation). Regardless, what's the matter with having additional information? Isnt that what this board is supposed to be about?
> 
> In any event, are they BMW dice?


I'm just messing with you. It's fine to seek information, but these incentives are limited. Sleeping on it for the sake of an extra $500 is not worth it to me. I once had a crush on Tiffany P. And I went on tiffanyfest.com and asked all kinds of questions just to make sure I was ready for the big day. When it came and I finally asked her out, it was perfect, except Johnny D. had just asked her out the day before and she was now off the market. Don't let this happen to you.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

GPErnie said:


> In addition to the financing, cash, etc. that's been mentioned, are there any other December only tools in the dealer's box to help move the cars? For example, discounted satellite radio activation or something? Just want to make sure we're not overlooking any other "sweeteners" that might get someone over the hump. Thanks.





hyperzulu said:


> I'm just messing with you. It's fine to seek information, but these incentives are limited. Sleeping on it for the sake of an extra $500 is not worth it to me. I once had a crush on Tiffany P. And I went on tiffanyfest.com and asked all kinds of questions just to make sure I was ready for the big day. When it came and I finally asked her out, it was perfect, except Johnny D. had just asked her out the day before and she was now off the market. Don't let this happen to you.


This thread is rapidly becoming a Bimmerfest Classic...


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dalekressin said:


> Adrian and Jon
> If I head in on Jon's advice, to my local dealer for the December BMW sales event with the intention of getting a sweet deal on a 2012 M3 coupe in their inventory, will I be pleased I did OR will I become motivated to do ED again?


M3s are not plentiful at the moment. If 2012 resembles 1999 (both outgoing years of a M model), production is going to be very, very light.
Deal structures on this particular BMW are going to follow the basic Economic Principles of Supply and Demand. The Supply Curve is trending
downward exponentially. And I therefore suggest anyone wanting one sign up with a Bimmerfest Sponsor for ED right away...

:thumbup:


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## Mikla (Nov 20, 2011)

What do you think of this line of thinking - won't a 2012 M3 have some value being the last of the M3 V8s?


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

hyperzulu said:


> ...And I went on tiffanyfest.com and asked all kinds of questions just to make sure I was ready for the big day.


Be careful what you post: tiffanyfest.com is NSFW.


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

I didn't see any big incentives on the 2012 M3, am I missing something here? Should I be changing my order


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Wow, tried reaching out to a few local dealers to see if I could locate what I want (wife said she's fine with me ditching my car). Seems nobody in San Diego understands some simple things written in plain language:

328i e90
Manual
ZSP
No ZPP, no navi, not black

They all call and seem shocked when I say no to the premium package or that it must be manual. Or they say, "well I have it in black..." Yeah, plenty of other colors out there, seems every dealer stocks a crapload of black BMWs. And why do salespeople have the temerity to almost always say, "Steptronic is like having a manual"? I can't see how they're going to convert manual lovers in 2011 to a very bad automatic transmission that's been around for eons.

Gotta say the online search capabilities of BMW sites really blow. There's no reason in this age people shouldn't be able to punch in the features they want and see a complete, thorough listing.

OMG - one salesperson just contacted me (7:45 pm) and said, "It seems you want a base 3 series. I have a white 328 steptronic with nothing else that would be perfect for you." Wow! It's like they don't listen at all.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Jon Shafer said:


> M3s are not plentiful at the moment. If 2012 resembles 1999 (both outgoing years of a M model), production is going to be very, very light.
> Deal structures on this particular BMW are going to follow the basic Economic Principles of Supply and Demand. The Supply Curve is trending
> downward exponentially. And I therefore suggest anyone wanting one sign up with a Bimmerfest Sponsor for ED right away...
> 
> :thumbup:


That's what I thought, thanks.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

The 1999 and the 2012 M3 supply side may indeed be weak; but it seems the economy is significantlt weaker.
I would move cars if I were a dealership in this fluctuating economy. Possibly it's different in my area than in CA, but I doubt it.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

hyperzulu said:


> Which one is supposed to be the fun car?


:rofl:
I know I seem to have that sort of focus.
:rofl:


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

Jon Shafer said:


> Here's what I would do. Show up at the closest BMW Center, and pick out a car. Tell the Client Advisor that you understand, thanks to the Internet, that BMW just announced even more insane factory-to-dealer incentives above and beyond Mission to Drive, etc. Tell them that you will drive that car away right now today if they make a killer deal that you can't refuse. They have tools at their disposal that can make unexpected and quite frankly unbelievable things happen on the spot.


Jon, I did exactly what you suggested (almost verbatim) as you wrote above. I went in there already with a decent negotiated deal. Then, I indicated that I knew they had factory to dealer incentives that could help bridge the gap with my 3 remaining payments, the new car price, etc..

My CA knew nothing about them; he asked his sales manager who said the quote that my CA provided to me was all that they would do. Is it dealer by dealer, would these two BMW Center sales people not know about the factory to dealer incentives, does the dealer just pick and choose when/what to apply the incentives to?

Trying to understand how to move the deal forward based on these unknown incentives. Any more thoughts, Jon?


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Wow, tried reaching out to a few local dealers to see if I could locate what I want (wife said she's fine with me ditching my car). Seems nobody in San Diego understands some simple things written in plain language:
> 
> 328i e90
> Manual
> ...


Did they open with "I want to help you get the car of your dreams?". I had a Nashville sales lady say that to me a few years ago. I agree with you 100% on the manual. Very hard to find and sales folks seem incredulous that you want one.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

@ carman, you have to understand the majority of "floor" CA's are kept in the dark or just don't have access to how these programs work.... Yes many centers try and keep option credits etc. as that is a way to make more $ from a unknowing customer... they are not being mean just trying to maximize profit. I mean we are in this to make $. many deals we do a below invoice and that includes incentives.... so you probably just got a "greenpea" CA,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you find a CA from the forum you will find bottom line pricing and full disclosure on all the deal specifics.............


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

carman26 said:


> Jon, I did exactly what you suggested (almost verbatim) as you wrote above. I went in there already with a decent negotiated deal. Then, I indicated that I knew they had factory to dealer incentives that could help bridge the gap with my 3 remaining payments, the new car price, etc..
> 
> My CA knew nothing about them; he asked his sales manager who said the quote that my CA provided to me was all that they would do. Is it dealer by dealer, would these two BMW Center sales people not know about the factory to dealer incentives, does the dealer just pick and choose when/what to apply the incentives to?
> 
> Trying to understand how to move the deal forward based on these unknown incentives. Any more thoughts, Jon?


What you need to do is contact a fest sponsor and work with them to get the car you want. After a deal is consumated then either fly/drive to pick up your new car or have it shipped. No fest sponsors in your area so go east to Adrian in Atlanta or west to Jon, Greg or Will in California. I think you are wasting your time trying to get a great deal in your local area....it probably will not happen because, as Greg said, many dealers will try to keep the incentives for the store rather than pass them on.



[email protected] BMW said:


> @ carman, you have to understand the majority of "floor" CA's are kept in the dark or just don't have access to how these programs work.... Yes many centers try and keep option credits etc. as that is a way to make more $ from a unknowing customer... they are not being mean just trying to maximize profit. I mean we are in this to make $. many deals we do a below invoice and that includes incentives.... so you probably just got a "greenpea" CA,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you find a CA from the forum you will find bottom line pricing and full disclosure on all the deal specifics.............


:stupid: All the more reason to contact a fest sponsor.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dalekressin said:


> The 1999 and the 2012 M3 supply side may indeed be weak; but it seems the economy is significantlt weaker.
> I would move cars if I were a dealership in this fluctuating economy. Possibly it's different in my area than in CA, but I doubt it.


The problem in this case is that there is practically zero supply, nothing to move...



carman26 said:


> Jon, I did exactly what you suggested (almost verbatim) as you wrote above. I went in there already with a decent negotiated deal. Then, I indicated that I knew they had factory to dealer incentives that could help bridge the gap with my 3 remaining payments, the new car price, etc..
> 
> My CA knew nothing about them; he asked his sales manager who said the quote that my CA provided to me was all that they would do. Is it dealer by dealer, would these two BMW Center sales people not know about the factory to dealer incentives, does the dealer just pick and choose when/what to apply the incentives to?
> 
> Trying to understand how to move the deal forward based on these unknown incentives. Any more thoughts, Jon?


I am beginning to realize that most CAs out there are in the dark...

:dunno:


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

Jon Shafer said:


> I am beginning to realize that most CAs out there are in the dark...
> 
> :dunno:


What is the BMW strategy then? How can the factory to dealer incentives work if the CAs don't know about them and their clients don't know what they are---what's the point?


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

[email protected] BMW said:


> @ carman, you have to understand the majority of "floor" CA's are kept in the dark or just don't have access to how these programs work.... Yes many centers try and keep option credits etc. as that is a way to make more $ from a unknowing customer... they are not being mean just trying to maximize profit. I mean we are in this to make $. many deals we do a below invoice and that includes incentives.... so you probably just got a "greenpea" CA,,,,,,,,,,,,, if you find a CA from the forum you will find bottom line pricing and full disclosure on all the deal specifics.............


Thanks, Greg. Just seems crazy to have incentives out there that BMW Centers aren't utlizing to move the metal.


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## carman26 (Oct 4, 2007)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> What you need to do is contact a fest sponsor and work with them to get the car you want. After a deal is consumated then either fly/drive to pick up your new car or have it shipped. No fest sponsors in your area so go east to Adrian in Atlanta or west to Jon, Greg or Will in California. I think you are wasting your time trying to get a great deal in your local area....it probably will not happen because, as Greg said, many dealers will try to keep the incentives for the store rather than pass them on.
> 
> All the more reason to contact a fest sponsor.


Thanks. I totally agree with you. Having said that, I'm going to try one more time by contacting the GM directly. If that doesn't work, then I'll move on.


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)

Just want to say thanks to Jon for posting the somewhat cryptic information in the first place. I never did find out what the additional "super secret" incentives were, notwithstanding my asking (and mocking from hyperzulu because I did). And there will always be someone else who got a better deal.

But the fact is, I made an offer in late November (before this thread was started, obviously) that was rejected, and we were $500 apart on their counter. This weekend, I bought that same car from the same dealer for $1,000 less than my earlier offer. Thanks, Jon. :thumbup:


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

GPErnie said:


> Just want to say thanks to Jon for posting the somewhat cryptic information in the first place. I never did find out what the additional "super secret" incentives were, notwithstanding my asking (and brilliant words of encouragement from hyperzulu that got me out there and into a new car -- couldn't have done it without you, buddy). And there will always be someone else who got a better deal.
> 
> But the fact is, I made an offer in late November (before this thread was started, obviously) that was rejected, and we were $500 apart on their counter. This weekend, I bought that same car from the same dealer for $1,000 less than my earlier offer. Thanks, Jon. :thumbup:


Fixed. Glad you got a new ride. Congrats!


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## GPErnie (Dec 5, 2011)




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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

GPErnie said:


> Just want to say thanks to Jon for posting the somewhat cryptic information in the first place. I never did find out what the additional "super secret" incentives were, notwithstanding my asking (and mocking from hyperzulu because I did). And there will always be someone else who got a better deal.
> 
> But the fact is, I made an offer in late November (before this thread was started, obviously) that was rejected, and we were $500 apart on their counter. This weekend, I bought that same car from the same dealer for $1,000 less than my earlier offer. Thanks, Jon. :thumbup:


Now that is what I am talking about...

Congrats!!

:angel:


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

Are the current "published" offers on a 2012 X5 xDrive50i as listed below?

1) $1,000 Loyalty Cash (or -.0003 MF reduction) (For current BMWFS customers)
2) -.00075 MF Reduction (For current BMWFS customers with leases expiring by Apr 2012)
3) $1,000 Lease Credit (X5 50i)
4) $1,000 Mission to Drive Credit (X5 50i)

If so, can these be combined for $3,000 in credits AND a -.00075 MF reduction? 

Also, which of these credits should be applied to the cap cost and which should be deducted from the cash due at signing?

I apologize if these questions have been asked already. 

Truly appreciate your help!!


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> LOL about birthdays in December. Wife's b-day is Jan 3 and she has the same complaint.
> 
> Thanks for the info. Don't qualify as my 335i was lemoned in Dec 2009. Bummer. BMW just finally turned off my BMWFS account though this week! (after years of telling them they'd made an error)


My daughter's is Dec 29, wife's is Jan 3, and my son's is Jan 10. All within 2 weeks of Christmas. We didnt plan well at all. My credit card statement is real ugly in February.


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## bimmer335is (Nov 27, 2010)

[email protected] BMW said:


> BlueGuy.............. just call me.... let's make this simple


+10000! Give a Greg or Jon a call and save your time. I have never met Greg or Jon, but based on what I have read in the last 1 year or so. They are the best on west coast!:thumbup:


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## bimmer335is (Nov 27, 2010)

Jon Shafer said:


> Today is my 51st birthday, and I promised myself that I would not check Bimmerfest...
> 
> Happy Birthday Jon!


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

bimmer335is said:


> +10000! Give a Greg or Jon a call and save your time. I have never met Greg or Jon, but based on what I have read in the last 1 year or so. They are the best on west coast!:thumbup:


I did. Left a VM.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

Happy birthday, young man! It gets tougher blowing out those candles doesn't it?


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## lisalisa57 (Mar 25, 2006)

Jon Shafer said:


> Thanks! The only problem with a December birthday is that people tend to "lump" birthday and Christmas together when it comes to gift giving...


Happy Birthday Jon!!! Yes, i know what i feels like when they say merry xmas and oh yeah, happy bday!


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## pcmike (Jan 4, 2003)

Wow, this thread reads like a conversation with some of my patients. Personally, I plan on going into a dealership tomorrow with a crazy ass offer and seeing what they throw back at me, if I like it.. I'll take it.. if not... I'll wait till my lease matures and make something happen then. Can't wait to see what sort of craziness (if any) ensues tomorrow...


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

pcmike said:


> Wow, this thread reads like a conversation with some of my patients. Personally, I plan on going into a dealership tomorrow with a crazy ass offer and seeing what they throw back at me, if I like it.. I'll take it.. if not... I'll wait till my lease matures and make something happen then. Can't wait to see what sort of craziness (if any) ensues tomorrow...


What kind of doctor are you?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

BravoMikeWiskey said:


> Ha! Happy Bday, old man! You beat me by a few days, great time of year to celebrate a birthday, almost everyone is in good spirits for the holidays! Hope your back feels better and you're having a blast! :thumbup:





bimmer335is said:


> Happy Birthday Jon!





pistolpuma said:


> Happy birthday, young man! It gets tougher blowing out those candles doesn't it?





lisalisa57 said:


> Happy Birthday Jon!!! Yes, i know what i feels like when they say merry xmas and oh yeah, happy bday!


Thank you everyone....

I'm in a Teriyaki Ribeye coma.

:eeps:


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

Happy Birthday Jon Shafer!!

Now back to business.... 

Can you shed some light on my questions from a previous post? I've copied them below for you to see.

If Lease Credit and Mission to Drive Credit are the same thing then wouldn't the max discount be .00105 + $1K OR .00075 + $2K?

1) $1,000 Loyalty Cash (or -.0003 MF reduction) (For current BMWFS customers)
2) -.00075 MF Reduction (For current BMWFS customers with leases expiring by Apr 2012)
3) $1,000 Mission to Drive Credit (AKA: Lease Credit) (X5 50i)

Can you provide info on which of these credits should be applied to the cap cost and which should be deducted from the cash due at signing? I believe the Mission to Drive credit cannot be used as a cap reduction and must be applied at end to reduce cash due as signing. I'm not sure about the Loyalty cash however...

Also, if I am not being offered any of the "triple secret incentives" from my dealer, is there any real benefit to take delivery of a vehicle already in stock versus ordering a car exactly to my specifications and just "locking in" the 3 incentives by 1/3/12? Sounds to me like the only thing I stand to lose is something which isn't being offered to me anyway...

Thanks.


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

Maxx2 said:


> is there any real benefit to take delivery of a vehicle already in stock versus ordering a car exactly to my specifications and just "locking in" the 3 incentives by 1/3/12?


Yeah there is a benefit to delivery before 1/3/12....OLP can't be locked!


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

lilskel said:


> Yeah there is a benefit to delivery before 1/3/12....OLP can't be locked!


Are you sure?? That is a deal breaker if confirmed!!

I recall reading somewhere on here that if your deal is made and your credit app is submitted in December and the dealer orders a car for you and enters it as "sold" (don't remember the terminology used) in their system, then you would be able to lock the $1000 Loyalty, the -.0075 Enhanced Loyalty (if eligible), and the Mission to Drive credit. Lock would be valid for 60days East Coast and 90days West Coast with possible extensions granted on a case by case basis.

Just found this post by Jon Shafer on this subject http://wwww.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6441687&postcount=112

Can a CA please confirm??


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## Got-BMW? (Dec 14, 2011)

Maxx2 said:


> Are you sure?? That is a deal breaker if confirmed!!
> 
> I recall reading somewhere on here that if your deal is made and your credit app is submitted in December and the dealer orders a car for you and enters it as "sold" (don't remember the terminology used) in their system, then you would be able to lock the $1000 Loyalty, the -.0075 Enhanced Loyalty (if eligible), and the Mission to Drive credit. Lock would be valid for 60days East Coast and 90days West Coast with possible extensions granted on a case by case basis.
> 
> ...


That sure would be nice if its true... :roundel:


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## bzcat (Sep 23, 2009)

lilskel said:


> Yeah there is a benefit to delivery before 1/3/12....OLP can't be locked!


That's not what the Sponsors here have indicated. The "regular" OLP (i.e. $1000 cash or 0.0003 MF reduction) and M2D cash can be locked in if your credit app is approved before expiration.

The "super secret" factory to dealer incentives that Jon is not allowed to publish for December and additional OLP MF reduction for leases expiring in the first quarter of 2012 _appears_ to be valid only if you take delivery before deal expiration, which is assumed to be 1/2/12.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

bzcat said:


> That's not what the Sponsors here have indicated. The "regular" OLP (i.e. $1000 cash or 0.0003 MF reduction) and M2D cash can be locked in if your credit app is approved before expiration.
> 
> The "super secret" factory to dealer incentives that Jon is not allowed to publish for December and additional OLP MF reduction for leases expiring in the first quarter of 2012 _appears_ to be valid only if you take delivery before deal expiration, which is assumed to be 1/2/12.


This is correct. The OLP enhancement is not "lockable" (i.e., you must take Delivery during what is considered December business).


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## Maxx2 (May 1, 2009)

Jon Shafer said:


> This is correct. The OLP enhancement is not "lockable" (i.e., you must take Delivery during what is considered December business).


Jon,

Thanks for clarifying that. That really changes everything for me.

Sounds like I will have to search through existing inventory to take advantage of the significant .00075 MF reduction... (and any "super secret incentive")

Does delivery *ON* 1/3/12 still count or does it have to be no later than 1/2/12?

My current lease expires on 3/28/12 and, therefore, I cannot take delivery before 12/31/11 or I will be outside the 60 day window for lease disposition fee waiver. Basically I will have either Saturday 12/31/11 or Monday 1/2/12 to close the deal.

Appreciate the help!

Thanks.


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## pcmike (Jan 4, 2003)

Not really a "doctor" .. but I have a doctorate in pharmacy. The comment was sort of tongue in cheek in regards to you basically giving everyone the strong hint to just go into the dealer and throw out a crazy offer and everyone resisting the advice. :rofl:

Suffice to say, I went to the dealer today with my mom to pick up her new MINI Coupe and I walked away really upset. Long story short, they snowed my mom into thinking they were going to let her walk away from her 09 MCS and right into the MINI Coupe.. they never once told her there was a $5K deficiency on the MCS and that they were going to just put it into the new deal; so she ended up ordering a MINI Coupe months ago and has been anticipating delivery all this time. I told her time and time again to just WALK AWAY, but when they came back out with a crazy 4yr lease agreement that hit the mark I told her (mind you I told her about it on a 3yr.. NOT ON 12 ADDITIONAL PAYMENTS) she signed the papers. So disgusted tonight. At the end of the day it's her money and she can do what she wants, but wow. Talk about being shady! :tsk:



Jon Shafer said:


> What kind of doctor are you?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

pcmike said:


> Not really a "doctor" .. but I have a doctorate in pharmacy. The comment was sort of tongue in cheek in regards to you basically giving everyone the strong hint to just go into the dealer and throw out a crazy offer and everyone resisting the advice. :rofl:
> 
> Suffice to say, I went to the dealer today with my mom to pick up her new MINI Coupe and I walked away really upset. Long story short, they snowed my mom into thinking they were going to let her walk away from her 09 MCS and right into the MINI Coupe.. they never once told her there was a $5K deficiency on the MCS and that they were going to just put it into the new deal; so she ended up ordering a MINI Coupe months ago and has been anticipating delivery all this time. I told her time and time again to just WALK AWAY, but when they came back out with a crazy 4yr lease agreement that hit the mark I told her (mind you I told her about it on a 3yr.. NOT ON 12 ADDITIONAL PAYMENTS) she signed the papers. So disgusted tonight. At the end of the day it's her money and she can do what she wants, but wow. Talk about being shady! :tsk:


Sorry to read this. MINI Centers are part of the family...


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Multiple BMW dealers have told me the 27 month lease does not exist. Confused...


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> Multiple BMW dealers have told me the 27 month lease does not exist. Confused...


Off-term leases are funky anyhow. Out of cycle, you pay for a full year's license fee, yet get only 3 month's benefit.
I hate giving money to the State that I don't need to give.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

01Byte said:


> Hi Jon,
> 
> I have never seen residuals published for a 12 month lease. Are they calculated differently from say a 24 month term?
> 
> Thanks.


Assuming they have not changed in the past couple of years (I don't think they have), the 12 month residual is calculated as follows:

24 mo/15k residual + 4 points.

And you can only do a 12 mo/15k mile lease... no option for 10k or 12k mile adjustment.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

Question: on the 2011 335i Sedan, if the car has an auto transmission, do you still get the $1305 Option Credit or is that why the Auto transmission is a zero cost item?


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

NASA43 said:


> Question: on the 2011 335i Sedan, if the car has an auto transmission, do you still get the $1305 Option Credit or is that why the Auto transmission is a zero cost item?


If it has automatic charged to it, then you would be eligible for the option credit. If it's noted as a $0 charge item, no option credit.


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

adrian's bmw said:


> If it has automatic charged to it, then you would be eligible for the option credit. If it's noted as a $0 charge item, no option credit.


Thanks Adrian. Hey one other quickie, is the 27 month lease special (69% residual for 15k) on the 2011 328i sedan available in the southeast? I have seen folks from the northeast post it is available to them but it is not out west.


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## XJSChris (Jun 28, 2007)

Read my horror story from today. Seems they do not need or want the business from a repeat customer:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6507885&postcount=27


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## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

XJSChris said:


> Read my horror story from today. Seems they do not need or want the business from a repeat customer:
> 
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6507885&postcount=27


The best thing to do is email your offer to the CA with all the data from your spreadsheet. That way the starting point for negotiation is on your terms, not theirs.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I would spend 15-30 minutes reviewing expectations and building the relationship. Highlight the positives to the CA, and not just the low profit offer. What's in it for them? What's in it for you?

Sure, it's a recommendation, but it looks like taking things from where they were left off didn't work. Or you can just go elsewhere and start from square 1.


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## sharmabmw (Feb 21, 2005)

sorry for re-hashing an old thread, but I am not sure whether I misunderstood the incentives I signed up for in december. I took delivery of an active e today. I signed up for the car 12/2011 and thus, I thought, I locked in the $1000 owner loyalty. My 650 lease matured in 1/2012. My CA at the time, wrote a purchase order including the $1000 discount. He has since left the dealership. When I went to pick up my vehicle today, the new CA and the sales manager stated that the $1000 owner loyalty discount was never lockable. It only applied to cars delivered by 1/3/2012. They would not order the signed purchase order.

I re-read all these threads which I knew so well back in december. Jon, Greg, and others seem to imply that indeed that $1000 was lockable. I strongly believe they are right. Now, however, it is my word with the backing of bimmerfest.com vs the dealership.  Any advice? Is there any documentation stating that the the $1000 was lockable? Is there something unique to the active e that made it ineligible for those discounts?

thanks.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

$1K OWNER LOYALTY EXPIRED ON 1/3/2012. it was not "lockable"


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## sharmabmw (Feb 21, 2005)

Thanks greg. I and my former ca misunderstood.


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## JW_BMW (Oct 3, 2007)

sharmabmw said:


> sorry for re-hashing an old thread, but I am not sure whether I misunderstood the incentives I signed up for in december. I took delivery of an active e today. I signed up for the car 12/2011 and thus, I thought, I locked in the $1000 owner loyalty. My 650 lease matured in 1/2012. My CA at the time, wrote a purchase order including the $1000 discount. He has since left the dealership. When I went to pick up my vehicle today, the new CA and the sales manager stated that the $1000 owner loyalty discount was never lockable. It only applied to cars delivered by 1/3/2012. They would not order the signed purchase order.
> 
> I re-read all these threads which I knew so well back in december. Jon, Greg, and others seem to imply that indeed that $1000 was lockable. I strongly believe they are right. Now, however, it is my word with the backing of bimmerfest.com vs the dealership.  Any advice? Is there any documentation stating that the the $1000 was lockable? Is there something unique to the active e that made it ineligible for those discounts?
> 
> thanks.


You do qualify for the 1K OL...there is a special bulletin for it. It applies to customers with credit locks from Dec taking delivery of the Active Es now. They will have to ask for the OL #...the CA in charge of handling all the Active Es should know about it.


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## JW_BMW (Oct 3, 2007)

sharmabmw said:


> Thanks greg. I and my former ca misunderstood.


He is neither right or wrong...see above post :thumbup:


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## sharmabmw (Feb 21, 2005)

JW_BMW said:


> You do qualify for the 1K OL...there is a special bulletin for it. It applies to customers with credit locks from Dec taking delivery of the Active Es now. They will have to ask for the OL #...the CA in charge of handling all the Active Es should know about it.


Are you referring to the $1k owner loyalty for previous mini-E owners? I was not a mini-E owner.

thanks.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

sharmabmw said:


> sorry for re-hashing an old thread, but I am not sure whether I misunderstood the incentives I signed up for in december. I took delivery of an active e today. I signed up for the car 12/2011 and thus, I thought, I locked in the $1000 owner loyalty. My 650 lease matured in 1/2012. My CA at the time, wrote a purchase order including the $1000 discount. He has since left the dealership. When I went to pick up my vehicle today, the new CA and the sales manager stated that the $1000 owner loyalty discount was never lockable. It only applied to cars delivered by 1/3/2012. They would not order the signed purchase order.
> 
> I re-read all these threads which I knew so well back in december. Jon, Greg, and others seem to imply that indeed that $1000 was lockable. I strongly believe they are right. Now, however, it is my word with the backing of bimmerfest.com vs the dealership.  Any advice? Is there any documentation stating that the the $1000 was lockable? Is there something unique to the active e that made it ineligible for those discounts?
> 
> thanks.


The OLP was an either/or proposition (cash or rate reduction). The cash option was not lockable. The other option was.
It's up to your dealer to make sure they understand and apply the rules correctly...


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## JW_BMW (Oct 3, 2007)

sharmabmw said:


> Are you referring to the $1k owner loyalty for previous mini-E owners? I was not a mini-E owner.
> 
> thanks.


If you did not own a mini E; are you under the friends and family? Only two types of customers could have signed up for an Active E allocation in Dec. 2011... Mini E customers and friends/family of a mini E customer.


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## sharmabmw (Feb 21, 2005)

JW_BMW said:


> If you did not own a mini E; are you under the friends and family? Only two types of customers could have signed up for an Active E allocation in Dec. 2011... Mini E customers and friends/family of a mini E customer.


I was friends and family.


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## JW_BMW (Oct 3, 2007)

sharmabmw said:


> I was friends and family.


You qualify for the 1k OL under the Active E program.

Only an Active E manager at the dealer you leased the car from has access to this bulletin. Everybody else on here is just quoting you the general OLP which expired and does not apply to the Active E.

Not sure if they will be wiling to rewrite your contract ... But good luck to you.


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## sharmabmw (Feb 21, 2005)

JW_BMW said:


> You qualify for the 1k OL under the Active E program.
> 
> Only an Active E manager at the dealer you leased the car from has access to this bulletin. Everybody else on here is just quoting you the general OLP which expired and does not apply to the Active E.
> 
> Not sure if they will be wiling to rewrite your contract ... But good luck to you.


thanks. I will contact my dealer and his manager today.


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## eddie33081 (May 15, 2006)

Any news on the incentives for March?


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

no news until March 1st in afternoon


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