# New Passat wagon or E39 525iT?



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I ask you guys rather than a broader cross section of the car guy population, because you guys generally know not to be scared away by the "high maintenance costs" of an "older" BMW.

My wife has accepted the idea that she might like an E39 525iT to replace her aging '98 Passat wagon.

I see 2001 525iTs between $19k (small used car lots/private sellers) and $27k (BMW dealers) and 2003 525iTs between $23k and $30k+. All have about 40k miles or less on them.

By most accounts, the E39 is a fairly rock solid choice in terms of reliability. Sure, you have to look after the cooling system, and may need a radiator before 100k miles, but beyond that, it's mostly routine maintenance, and not unexpected repairs.

However, you're still dealing with a three to five year old car that's pretty much out of warranty.

With the Passat, you have a new car warranty, but VW's fairly poor reliability record working against you. You're also driving either a 2.0T 4-banger for $29k loaded or need to spend about $33k for a V6 (with 280 hp).

Cost-wise, I've crunched the numbers before on a new mid-level car versus a slightly used BMW and there wasn't much difference. Depreciation is lower on the used BMW, but maintenance costs are probably slightly higher to even things out.

Just to get some feedback, which would you choose and why (I'm betting the E39 wins :eeps: ).

Oh, here's some pics...



























not the best pic of a US spec E39, but it's what edmunds has...


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

I voted for the E39. I have not sat in a new Passat, but VW's reputation would scare me off for a while. If you find a 2002 or 2003 E39 you may have some warranty left, and there is always CPO, despite the bad mouthing of it the fact is you are only out $50.00 for a major repair. I confess my bias, I think the E39's are fine cars that have aged well. The posters here with tourings seem to universally be pleased with them. Now a 540it......:eeps:


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## mapsbmw (Jan 16, 2006)

Speaking from experience, my older brother has a 2004 Passat 1.8T with 54k miles which he purchased new. He hasn't had any major problems with it besides a tire going off balance. I drove it a couple of weekends back, and that thing still has some kick to it. If you were to get the Passat, the 2.0T is def the way to go.

Personally, I always try to stray away from used vehicles. You just never know the complete history. So, I'd get the Passat soley because you are talking new vs. used.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

mapsbmw said:


> Personally, I always try to stray away from used vehicles. You just never know the complete history. So, I'd get the Passat soley because you are talking new vs. used.


The key to used vehicles, beside a good pre-purchase inspection, is to allocate some money for repairs and have a little patience. Even new cars have problems.


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## Faxe (Jul 10, 2006)

I have a college who has been driving BMW's in the past, all were 3' series, he now
has company car, so he has been limited in what car he drives.

His last car was a Passat 1.8T Wagon, he said it was noisy & VERY thirsty.

His current car is a Audi A4 1.8T, and that is much better quality than the Passat, even
his wife says quote: " The closest you can come to an BMW."


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

mapsbmw said:


> Speaking from experience, my older brother has a 2004 Passat 1.8T with 54k miles which he purchased new. He hasn't had any major problems with it besides a tire going off balance. I drove it a couple of weekends back, and that thing still has some kick to it. If you were to get the Passat, the 2.0T is def the way to go.
> 
> Personally, I always try to stray away from used vehicles. You just never know the complete history. So, I'd get the Passat soley because you are talking new vs. used.


Our Passat was bought used, and it's given us a fair amount of problems. Since it was used, some can be attributed to the previous owner, but some were obviously design problems.

Service records would seem to be the #1 thing that is required in a used car purchase.


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

Guess which one I picked :angel:

Seriously though, I found that 525ia/iTA to be unacceptably slow. I only bought the car b/c of the stick shift availability on the 525iT versus 540iT,-- the five speed manual makes the car's power acceptable. I take it that it's going to be a step if for the Mrs.

Still, nothing quite like an E39. My 2003 with the SP wheels still gets admiring looks and I enjoy driving it more than the Z4. There's just something so perfect about the E39's ride/handling/steering feel compromise for a family sized car.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

LA525iT said:


> I take it that it's going to be a step if for the Mrs.


Yep. Although I know it won't be fast, it'll be a step up from our 1.8T / tiptronic combo in our current Passat wagon. I know what a 525 feels like too, from owning an E34 525i 5 speed.



LA525iT said:


> Still, nothing quite like an E39. My 2003 with the SP wheels still gets admiring looks and I enjoy driving it more than the Z4. There's just something so perfect about the E39's ride/handling/steering feel compromise for a family sized car.


Yep again. My dad's 540iA feels great...pretty much like a slightly bigger E46.


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## TD (Dec 19, 2001)

Don't underestimate just how S L O W a 525 wagon with slushie will be. We're talking glacial. I think the 1.8T Passat would beat it off the line handily.

Which is why I voted for the new Passat.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

TD said:


> Don't underestimate just how S L O W a 525 wagon with slushie will be. We're talking glacial. I think the 1.8T Passat would beat it off the line handily.
> 
> Which is why I voted for the new Passat.


The new 2.0T Passat slushie is probably faster than a 525iTA, but our old 1.8T Passat with 150hp has throttle lag, followed by turbo lag, followed by some decent pickup. 0-60 is probably in the 10 second range for our Passat.

The 525iTA may be a little tiny bit quicker (9.5 seconds?), but regardless, with the smooth I6 and better tranny it'll feel significantly _better_.

The E39 probably also won't rattle and squeak over every little bump like our trashy old VW does. I wonder if new VWs have less rattles. :dunno:


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

BTW, that pic of the E39 interior is awful. I'd imagine you'd have a hard time finding a car like that, it doesnt even have the PP.


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

LA525iT said:


> BTW, that pic of the E39 interior is awful. I'd imagine you'd have a hard time finding a car like that, it doesnt even have the PP.


Look at the HVAC controls, I think it is a Euro spec car.


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

vexed said:


> Look at the HVAC controls, I think it is a Euro spec car.


I thought 2001 525s came with HVAC and climate control didnt become standard until 2002 or 2003.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

PhilH said:


> The new 2.0T Passat slushie is probably faster than a 525iTA, but our old 1.8T Passat with 150hp has throttle lag, followed by turbo lag, followed by some decent pickup. 0-60 is probably in the 10 second range for our Passat.
> 
> The 525iTA may be a little tiny bit quicker (9.5 seconds?), but regardless, with the smooth I6 and better tranny it'll feel significantly _better_.
> 
> The E39 probably also won't rattle and squeak over every little bump like our trashy old VW does. I wonder if new VWs have less rattles. :dunno:


I have a friend who bought the new Passat wagon, his is a four cylinder with a few options such as leather, the sat radio.

I've driven it, it's nice but in no way is it fun or sporty - just very competent and quiet. The four cylinder engine is quite smooth - it's a lot of car for the money (until you get into the V6's).

It's got an electric parking brake - this is exactly the type of thing that gets the Germans in so much trouble :tsk:

Ed


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

LA525iT said:


> I thought 2001 525s came with HVAC and climate control didnt become standard until 2002 or 2003.


I found this by googling for a 2001 5 series, it was at msn autos, a highly reliable source

But you could be right.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

This one's a bit nicer too. Love that sport steering wheel. I found it at edmunds after I made this thread...(I don't mind stealing bandwidth from the big guys)


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

PhilH said:


> This one's a bit nicer too. Love that sport steering wheel. I found it at edmunds after I made this thread...(I don't mind stealing bandwidth from the big guys)


That's my exact interior :thumbup:

Bad shot of my car interior:


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

I feel pretty qualified to give an opinion since I own a new (B6) Passat 2.0T (wife's car) and a B5 Passat (nanny's). My car is an E61, but I've owned three other BMW tourings (E34, E39, and E46).

Having had the new Passat for about a year, I'd have to tell you, the interior build quality is nothing like that of the E39 touring. The 2.0 T engine is peppy, buy with the automatic, you have to work it. (Alas, there is no manual tranny available in the US for the Passat wagon).

Reliability of the the new Passat is fine, in fact, no issues at all. Then again, BMW wagons are very reliable, too. What drives me crazy about the Passat is the cheapness of the steering column stalks for turn signals, etc. The steering column itself has some rattles and buzzes. The cupholders are completely worthless. What is nice, though, is the standard features that come with a base model like mine: power lumbar, remote trunk.

The difference of rear drive vs front drive is pretty noticeable, too.

So, my vote is for the bimmer.

Finally, _where were you when I had this amazing touring for sale in Maine?_


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## Elvis530i (Feb 13, 2006)

I had a 2000 Passat coupe and gave it up for my current car. There is really no comparison between the two in terms of luxury, quality, and performance (except for, as noted, the cupholders, which suck equally). They're two different vehicles aimed at different markets.

I have not driven a 525 wagon or the new Passat. My sister and BIL have a Passat wagon, and love it, but it's still not a BMW.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

How about an E39 528iT? A bit more torque and hp iirc.


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