# Help building on this route?



## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Okay, I have my pick up date (thanks Irv!) in June, so suddenly this thing is getting more and more real and I need to start working on plane tickets, so I need to start finalizing my route.

Initially, I had really wanted to head East to Prague, down to Vienna and do my best to go broke on gas before I had to head back to the airport. But now, I've scaled down my ambitions considerably and am wanting to spend more time relaxing than driving (though driving there is surely much more relaxing than the roads of Houston).

So I've started out with some basics that I'd really like to do.

-Munich (pickup, maybe the rest of the day of delivery and the next day, before moving on).
-Salzburg - Probably at least two nights here, perhaps more. I understand there are a lot of side-trips in this area.
-Berchtesgaden (probably a side trip from Salzburg)
-Grossglockner
-Neuschwanstein
-Fussen

Here is a map of the general route. All things being equal, I'd prefer to not return to Munich to do the dropoff in favor of another city. But I'd want to stay close to the area (Zurich, Geneva, lower Germany) most likely but wouldn't mind back to Munich (esp. if I want a Sat. drop off) if there is something on the way back to see or do.

Other possibilities:

-Stelvio Pass
-San Bernadino Pass
-Lake Como
-Strasbourg
-Black Forest

I'm more inclined to stay out of the larger cities.

My wife will be making the trip with me. We're both early/mid 30s.

So can anyone make any suggestions or recommendations on the route we have, ways to improve it while keeping the stops the same or similar, as well as expanding the route a little to fill out the trip?


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

Paul,

My wife & I (also both in our early 30's) are doing a very similiar trip in April. We're also spending a few nights relaxingin Berchtesgaden at the Intercontinental - we'll do some day trips from there (Obersalzburg, Salzburg, Konigsee).

One thing we're doing is the morning after picking up the car we're touring Dachau, and then driving north to Rothenburg ob der Tauber (a great midevil walled city, has a few museums, shopping, a night watchmans tour, etc..). The next morning we'll tour a little bit more in RODT, and then drive the Romantic Road from RODT to Fussen.

http://www.romanticroad.com/

It might be somethign worth considering.

-Stephen


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

How many days to you have to complete this trip?

Going back to Munich is suboptimal, IMO.

You can do a nice drive MUC->Fussen->St Moritz->Maloja pass->Splugen pass->Lake Como->San Bernardino->Interlaken->Drop off in Zurich.

OR -- heading east to the B-gaden, Salzburg, drop off in Viena.

at least narrow down your drop off preferences, OR things you REALLY want to see and then building an itinerary will be much simpler.


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## Vanos4:12PM (Apr 20, 2007)

paul.r said:


> Okay, I have my pick up date (thanks Irv!) in June, so suddenly this thing is getting more and more real and I need to start working on plane tickets, so I need to start finalizing my route.
> 
> Initially, I had really wanted to head East to Prague, down to Vienna and do my best to go broke on gas before I had to head back to the airport. But now, I've scaled down my ambitions considerably and am wanting to spend more time relaxing than driving (though driving there is surely much more relaxing than the roads of Houston).
> 
> ...


Literrally the trip I am doing in May but in reverse. I orginally wanted to throw in Vienna and Prague but was realistic and also want to enjoy the trip and not feel rushed to get to the next city. Plus Vienna and Prague really deserve a trip themselves. We want to see southern Germany/Austria and hit the small cities in between with a mix of driving, sightseeing and get a taste of local culture.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the input N2 TRBL. I'm interested to hear how your trip goes.

zoltrix,

Sorry, meant to say it was 8-9 days. We're arriving in Munich on Friday June 11 and are looking to fly out either Saturday the 19th or Sunday the 20th.

The Vienna idea is a good one. We could always go counter-clockwise and end up with this route and add about three hours of driving.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Vanos4:12PM,

Any spots along the route that you've read about and would suggest?


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Oh, and the 17th (Friday night) is our 10th anniversary. We'll likely be dropping the car off that day (unless we go back to Munich), so something nice that evening for the event would be great. Maybe something to splurge on to cap off the trip and celebrate the anniversary.


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## bap (Jun 25, 2008)

Fussen to Meran by way of Solden (Timmelsjoch) is an interesting drive, and at the end you get to drive Stelvio Pass - that was probably the highlight of our trip. But I think you are a long way from a drop off city. Of the larger cities we visited, Munich was our favorite - lots of places to celebrate an anniversary. You'll have an awesome time at the Intercontinental. Fantastic place.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

paul.r said:


> Thanks for the input N2 TRBL. I'm interested to hear how your trip goes.
> 
> zoltrix,
> 
> ...


Hmm. Don't know about you -- not feelin' it.

There's that strange out of the way loop to Fussen which I can understand but much worse is the roundtrip to Glossglockner & back. Doesn't make much sense to me.

I prefer to move forward and avoid driving the same road twice. But this is your trip, of course.

Check out the wiki for Alfred's deutsche alpenstrasse google maps route, you can use a portion of to get from Fussen to B-gdn.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, like I said, how I get from point A to B to C, etc. is certainly open and that's one of the things I'm looking for help on. Certainly, this route could be contracted in places rather than expanded. I just have a handful of places that I'd like to consider "stops" and figure out the best way to get between them and what to see on the way. Or what to avoid.

Thanks again.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

My wife wife and I have visited all of the sites being considered here except for Fussen. This is my recommendation for a spectacular 11 day vacation at a reasonable pace. The biggest mistake is to go at a hurried pace and come back exhausted. 1 day in Munich. Drive to Neuschwanstein. Tour both castles. Drive to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. Spend the night there. 1 hour hike up a mountain to a wonderful small restaurant with a great view for a great experience. If interested PM for the name and trail. Drive the Deutsche-Alpenstrasse west through the Berchtesgaden National Park which is spectacular. Allow time there to stop along the Deutsche Alpenstrasse and take incredible photographs. Spend the night at the Intercontinental. Tour the Eagle's Nest. Have a beer and brat there and enjoy truly spectacular views. Drive to Salzburg. Spend one and one half days in the historic town center. Take a scenic drive through Saltkammergut. Stop and spend the night in that area. Drive to Vienna. Spend 3 to 4 days in Vienna which is almost enough to do it justice. Drop off the car in Vienna.


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## SergioCordoza (Mar 27, 2009)

LOL, what does your age have to do with anything, lol GOOFY PEOPLE!


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## SergioCordoza (Mar 27, 2009)

Goofballs lol


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

It gives insights with what they might interested in.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

My suggestion would be after Grossglockner, head down to Venice or Lake Garda (I would prefer Lake Garda, more peace and quiet), then Lake Como. After that, we have to decide if you want to drop off in Zurich or Frankfurt. Zurich drop off is very close to airport. Frankfurt is also close with a bit more remote. If Frankfurt is the final destination, then spend like 2 or 3 nights at Baden-Baden (Black Forest).


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

We did Venice (among other places) on the honeymoon, so we are looking at other areas for this trip. I would like Como (or even Cinque Terre), but feel that those are too far out of the way for the rest of the trip, even if we were to go to Switzerland for the dropoff and forget about Vienna.

pharding,

My only concern is too much time in Vienna. I know I could spend a week there and still not even scratch the surface so I'm leaning towards the vast majority of the time in smaller towns.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

For smaller cities and towns, consider Friuli, NE of Venice. Several of us have enjoyed that region.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

paul.r said:


> We did Venice (among other places) on the honeymoon, so we are looking at other areas for this trip. I would like Como (or even Cinque Terre), but feel that those are too far out of the way for the rest of the trip, even if we were to go to Switzerland for the dropoff and forget about Vienna.
> 
> pharding,
> 
> My only concern is too much time in Vienna. I know I could spend a week there and still not even scratch the surface so I'm leaning towards the vast majority of the time in smaller towns.


I agree. We've done Lake Como, Cinque Terre, Venice. They are great but that is another trip altogether.

It makes a wonderful trip to start out at the castles. They are really amazing. You could do the Deutche Alpenstrasse as suggested going west. After time in Salzburg, you could do Saltzkammergut, then swing back around and work your way to Grossglockner-Hochalpenstrasse then onto A6 and back to Munich. By dropping off in Munich you will definitely get your car stateside quicker.

Innsbruck itself is not too special, however the Tirol area around it is beautiful. The Green Michelin Guidebook for Austria has a fine driving tour that would be helpful. Also Rick Steeves has a fine travel book on Vienna, Salzburg & Tirol that should be helpful. It also includes southern Bavaria. Also I believe that Jonathan Spira, who posts here, is originally from Austria. He also will be helpful. Half the fun of these trips is the research and planning.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks again. I picked up three guidebooks for Munich & Bavaris (Fodor's, Lonely Planet, Steeves) that I need to go through but I'll definitely grab one for Switzerland and the Salzburg areas as well.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

It is like a trip down memory lane reading the various suggestions of where to go and what to do in a 9 day time period. Truthfully i suspect the contributors here could write a better "guidebook" for your contemplated auto trip than those available. If you opt to head back to Munich for your drop off a venue that could be well suited for your anniversary celebration several hours distant from Munich would be the Interalpen Hotel in Telfs Austria just outside of Innsbruck. Here is a link to the hotel. It would work well for a Friday night stay with a Saturday drop off in Munich.

http://www.interalpen.com/de/index.html


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

That is quite an impressive hotel in an amazing setting.


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## Vanos4:12PM (Apr 20, 2007)

paul.r said:


> Vanos4:12PM,
> 
> Any spots along the route that you've read about and would suggest?


our trip in a nutshell.

Days 1-2 Munich/pickup car

Drive from Munich to Reutte, Austria. (just over the border from Fussen) - along the way to Reutte, stop along at the Starnberg Lake, Oberammergau, Ettal Monestary and Linderoff Palace.

Day 3-4 Stay at Reutte, Austria with side trips to Garmish/Zugspitze, "Fussen" Castles and the postcard city of Mittenwald.

Day 5 Innsbruck

Day 6-8 Berchanstegaden - Drive Grossglockner/see salt mines/drive to Salzburg/eagles Nest

Day 9 Return to Munich/drop off car

note: I have heard driving the grossglockner is an absolute must!! :thumbup:


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

zoltrix said:


> Check out the wiki for Alfred's deutsche alpenstrasse google maps route, you can use a portion of to get from Fussen to B-gdn.


What's the recommended time to spend on this route? Could it be driven comfortably (with stops for pictures, rest, tours, etc. in two days with a one night stop-over or is more time recommended?

That looks like a nice drive, though I'd probably reverse that route if I decided to drop off in Vienna, unless driving East to West is preferred.

Perhaps start in Munich, drive to the Lindau area and stay there for the night, then one night stop along the route (Garmisch or Telfs, perhaps?) and finish up in Salzburg. Two or three nights in Salzburg, perhaps with a day trip to Grossglockner, then back to Munich or over to Vienna.

So, comments on this route? Terminal destination is still up in the air, so I didn't take it back to Munich or Vienna. The stops in Telfs and Berchtesgarden are just there to show me the locations relative to the overall path. These would likely be day trips. Is there a better way to get to Lindau from Munich? This mapped route does not show the day trips to Stelvio (optional) or Grossglockner (definite), so the mileage will go up a little bit for each. It looks like both are two hours each way, so both look like whole day events.

So do the pickup and depart Munich Friday. Overnight at Lindau area.
Telfs/Garmisch/Zugspitze on Saturday
Three nights in Telfs/Garmisch/Zugspitze, including a day trip to Stelvio.
To Salzburg Tuesday
Three nights in Salzburg
Depart Salzburg for Vienna/Bratislava or Munich on Friday
Drop off Friday in Vienna or Saturday in Munich, Depart Saturday or Sunday

Or are more stops along Alfred's route recommended over three nights closer to the middle?

Thanks again for all the input.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

paul.r said:


> What's the recommended time to spend on this route? Could it be driven comfortably (with stops for pictures, rest, tours, etc. in two days with a one night stop-over or is more time recommended?
> 
> That looks like a nice drive, though I'd probably reverse that route if I decided to drop off in Vienna, unless driving East to West is preferred. ...
> So do the pickup and depart Munich Friday. Overnight at Lindau area.
> ...


It all depends on your personal preferences, but I'd revise the final days. After driving the Alpenstrasse and visiting G-P, etc., I'd find 3 days in and around Salzburg to be relatively boring. Here is a revision, with a few options:


Tuesday drive to Salzburg (or outskirts such as Lake Fuschl or Wolfgang)
Tuesday night and half-day Wed in Salzburg or some cutesy town
Wednesday afternoon drive to Vienna
Thursday day trip to the Wachau, Eisenstadt, or Bratislava
Friday drop-off in Vienna
Return Sat or Sunday from Vienna

This gives you 3 or 4 evenings in Vienna plus 1 or 2 full days, except for the time for the drop-off. While it isn't much, I'd find it more interesting that the same amount of time in Salzburg. Plus you get an extra day-trip, which you can always drop and spend another day in Vienna.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions. My thinking was to use Salzburg as a base of operations to make trips to Berchtesgaden, Grossglockner, and the small towns in the area. But if that's all doable in two solid days, then perhaps more time in Vienna would be a better idea.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

I've a few questions.

1. What's the deal with Telfs, is it really worth a dedicated roundtrip just to see it? Don't know, never been.
2. That roundtrip drive to Gl-ner sticks out like a sore appendix. Not questioning the beauty of the drive, but perhaps structure it to avoid driving it to & from on the same road?
3. Coming back to Munich incurs significant overlap, methinks drop off in Vienna would be much better. For example, drop off, spend the night, fly out next day.


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## L Seca (Apr 22, 2005)

paul.r said:


> So, comments on this route?


Your plan is taking shape nicely. Here are some additional comments/options to make your choices more difficult:
Between Fussen and Garmisch, a scenic mountain option is via Reutte/Plansee/Graswang. This route goes past Schloss Linderhof, but bypasses Oberammergau, if that matters.

Between Garmish and Telfs, consider going via Fernpass/Nassereith to avoid driving the same road twice.

When you are in Austria, I highly recommend a visit to Hallstatt. Take the funicular up to the restaurant overlooking the lake if you have time.

Enjoy the trip!


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

zoltrix said:


> I've a few questions.
> 
> 1. What's the deal with Telfs, is it really worth a dedicated roundtrip just to see it? Don't know, never been.
> 2. That roundtrip drive to Gl-ner sticks out like a sore appendix. Not questioning the beauty of the drive, but perhaps structure it to avoid driving it to & from on the same road?
> 3. Coming back to Munich incurs significant overlap, methinks drop off in Vienna would be much better. For example, drop off, spend the night, fly out next day.


As to Telfs, it simply happens to be the closest village to the Interalpen Hotel. It is the hotel and its setting that is worth the trip.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

L Seca said:


> Your plan is taking shape nicely. Here are some additional comments/options to make your choices more difficult:
> Between Fussen and Garmisch, a scenic mountain option is via Reutte/Plansee/Graswang. This route goes past Schloss Linderhof, but bypasses Oberammergau, if that matters.
> 
> Between Garmish and Telfs, consider going via Fernpass/Nassereith to avoid driving the same road twice.
> ...


Much appreciated. I'll research those. Any recommendations on lodging along the way? One night in different stops or one stop for multiple nights along the way?


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Okay, another question.

I'm thinking about reversing the route (starting off in Salzburg), and going up through Baden-Baden/Black Forest on the back-end and ending up in Frankfurt. I know Frankfurt is a different flavor than the rest of the area, but we would be able to get a direct flight from Frankfurt, and at the end of a trip I know that small things like that can make a big difference.

Or drop off in Sindelfingen and get transportation to Stuttgart. But as close as that is, I would think a drive to Frankfurt would probably be less painful.

Thoughts?


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Upon mapping that out, the jog to the black forest and up to Frankfurt looks less than ideal, especially at the end of the trip.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

paul.r said:


> Upon mapping that out, the jog to the black forest and up to Frankfurt looks less than ideal, especially at the end of the trip.


But, OTOH, I don't know of any trans-Atlantic flights out of Stuttgart. The airport is mostly for intra-Europe flights, and the weekday traffic between the airport and the city can be a mess. It was bad enough that we were once advised to try to fly into the Baden-Karlsruhe airport, but the schedules there were spotty at best.

To summarize, here are your primary options with a few of the pros and cons (others may disagree):

FRA: The most air service to both East and West Coasts. One of the worst run airports on the continent. Easy drop-off. Big city, but certainly not a tourist mecca.
MUC: Modern, well-run airport, but quite a distace from center city. At least the drop-off is on the same side of the city. Daily non-stop flights to SFO (important to me) and reasonably good service to the East Coast.
VIE: Reasonably close-in and reasonably well-run airport. No non-stop service to the West Coast but (last I checked) some to the East Coast. Most likely drop-off here will add several days to your car's return trip.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the run-down. It's much appreciated. 

To/From Houston, the only direct flights are to Frankfurt. Stuttgart, Vienna and Munich would all (like you say) require going through Frankfurt, London, Newark, or a handful of other cities depending on carrier.

I guess overall it's about 150 miles less if I were to go to Austria. The decision would be Vienna vs. Black Forest. I guess I'm a leaning towards the Black Forest, but driving 1000 miles over 8 days doesn't sound like a great idea. On the plus side, I guess I would be that much closer to being through the break in period by the time the car hits the states.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Okay, I think I've got things worked out.


Day 1 (Friday 6/11) - Pick up car @ Welt at about 4PM and drive to Hotel Muller near Fussen. (map)
Day 2 (Satday 6/1) - Catch the castles and drive to the Interalpen Hotel near Innsbruck. (map)
Day 3 (Sunday 6/1) Day trips in the area
Day 4 (Monday 6/1) Early AM departure for drive to Hotel Intercontinental near Berchtesgaden. (nap)
Day 5 (Tuesday 6/1) Day trips in the area
Day 6 (Wednesday 6/1) - Drive to Vienna/Bratislava. (map)
Day 7 (Thursday 6/1) - Day trips in the area
Day 8 (Friday 6/1) - Day trips in the area, drop off car.
Day 9 (Saturday 6/1) - Depart 

Inexact, but overall map here.

I think the likelihood of Stelvio or San Bernardino Passes are low due to the distance out of the way, so I've taken some time out of the stop near Innsbruck.

Only tweak may be to add a third night in Berchtesgarden, depending on how much time is spent in Salzburg, Grossglockner, and the area.

Comments?


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, the flights have been purchased. I decided to do round trip (drop-off) to Munich. I was just feeling that any jaunt over to Vienna would be so hurried that it wouldn't be worthwhile. Besides, we can save Prague/Vienna/Bratislava for European Delivery II. 

So here is more or less the route.

Plan is to slow things down a bit.

Stay in Munich the first night to catch up on some rest. Leisurely drive to Fussen on Saturday morning perhaps taking in more of the Romantic Road than is currently mapped out.

Sunday morning get up and tour Neuschwanstein and possibly Hohenschwangau. Drive to Innsbruck area.

Tuesday, drive to Berchtesgaden

Thursday or Friday drive to Munich.

Saturday depart.

I feel that this will give us enough of a schedule to keep moving, but enough flexibility to do unplanned things.

Thanks again for all of the input, suggestions and recommendations. It is much appreciated.


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## CC Brown (Jan 29, 2010)

That looks like a trip you can enjoy without wearing yourself out. I am looking at a very similar trip when I can schedule a pick up in August. I had considered Vienna but looked like too much driving. Let us know how it works out. Did you consider using BMW travel to do any of this? They look very expensive to me. I have done two ED with Mercedes and they have a 4 day trip that is only $1300 per couple.
CC


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

I looked at the packages a little, but the packages didn't interest me enough to really take more than a cursory look at them. They seemed more of a relaxation/sight seeing package and I guess I'm looking for more of an Alpine driving experience with a little relaxation mixed in. I didn't really even get far enough to look at the pricing.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

I would definitely include Hohenschwangau and tour it first. Then tour Neuschwanstein. Hohenschwangau is the summer castle for Ludwig II's father and mother, where he was raised in the summer months. It is rather amazing in its own right. It puts what is to come in perspective. Ludwig II then proceeded to out do his father to an exponential degree with the enormous and totally over the top Neuschwanstein spending a gazillion dollars from Bavaria's treasury. 

The line for the tickets is long and consumes too much valuable vacation time. I believe that they can be ordered in advance which is well worthwhile.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks!


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## kcdude (Sep 17, 2004)

Keep up the good work here...We're going to follow your route in June. We just put in for an ED and waiting on a date. I'm thinking 8 days and maybe modify your route with Dachau first and then up to Wurzburg and down the Romantic Road to RODT then down to Landsberg. We should arrive in the early morning and be able to bug out of Munich the first day. This buys us an extra day on the road. I am questioning Salzburg but given the drive there I'm sure it will be work the effort.

Looking forward to some updates.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Will do. Still finalizing the stops between arrival and departure, but I have the plane tickets bought. Once I finalize the stops/hotels I will update on the plans.


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Okay, this time I really have figured things out! I have the confirmation at (most of) the hotels to prove it!

Overall route remains essentially the same.


Day 0 Thursday - Depart Houston
Day 1 Friday - Arrive Munich, pick up car, stay at Hotel Torbrau in Munich (confirmed)
Day 2 Saturday - Drive to Fussen, taking in as much of the Romantic Road as possible while not rushing. Stay at the Hotel Muller (confirmed) (map)
Day 3 Sunday - Tour Hohenschwangau & Neuschwanstein, drive to Telfs/Interalpen Hotel (confirmed) (map)
Day 4 Monday - Trips around Telfs
Day 5 Tuesday - Depart for Tegernsee to the Hotel Leeberghof (confirmed) (map)
Day 6 Wednesday - Depart for Berchtesgarden to the Hotel Intercontinental (confirmed) (map)
Day 7 Thursday - Trips in the area.
Day 8 Friday - Drive to Munich(map) (Mandarin Oriental - Confirmed)
Day 9 Saturday - Go home

The Torbrau is booked the night before my departure, so I'll have to figure out a hotel to stay there. If we drop the car off Friday, we'd probably stay near the airport (Kempinski Airport?), if we drop it off Saturday, probably somewhere closer to the city center.

Will drop the car off Friday or Saturday probably depending on where we stay and logistics on getting to airport/hotel after dropoff. Flight is at about noon.

Thanks again for all of the continued input. It has been most helpful. :thumbup:


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## paul.r (Jul 27, 2009)

Well, we returned on Saturday and had a fantastic time. Really enjoyed the trip and the route. Thanks again to all who offered assistance with the planning.


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