# Preview of Lexus GS350 - Great interior, butterface



## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

I went to the Lexus of North Miami launch event for the 2013 GS350. Here are my takeaways:

*Stunning interior, Butterface*

The interior is fantastic. Way better than Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti or Jaguar. On par with BMW (way better than the 528 interior, almost as nice as my 550i extended Nappa interior)
I like that the HUD has RPM, although the HUD display is small and monochrome - nowhere near as up to date as the BMW full color large HUD
The luxury package version is gorgeous. I think these are the best seats I have encountered on a luxury car - better than the vaunted BMW seats. They have adjustable side-bolsters like the E60 and they automatically grip you when the car is turned on. Also the wood trim is top notch - I criticized the 3GS trim as being Camry like, but this wood trim is world class (a little better than ours). I love the wood steering wheel. One of the best wheels out there.
The F-Sport package interior looks cheap. They should have an F-Sport luxury package. Also the seats on the F-Sport are not as good as the Luxury package. They lack the pivot on the seat back, and the passenger seat only has very basic adjustment. Also no rear AC controls and no wood trim on F-Sport model. Also the steering wheel on F-Sport is pretty crumby - not thick like BMW's M-Sport wheel, and yet it doesn't have the gorgeous wood wheel of the basic model. I think they made a mistake here - a loaded 535i M-Sport has a much nicer interior than the GS350 F-Sport, and only because on the BMW you can get upgraded leather, wood trim, 18 way seats all round, rear AC controls, etc.
They didn't let me drive one (only had corporate cars - said I could come back on Friday and drive an inventory car. However they took me for a ride in the front passenger seat and it appears to drive very well. Handling is excellent - clearly in BMW/Audi camp and way better than the Infiniti or Mercedes. Importantly there are no rattles.
 Excellent sound system. Probably best in class.
 The tactile remote touch interface on this model works really well. I hated it on the HS, but I love it on the GS.
 The GPS does not let passenger program it while car is in motion - Seriously WTF! Also the GPS graphics are not as sexy as ours (although they probably have better quality maps)
 Some nice bonus details - adjustable side bolsters on luxury package and F-Sport drivers seat, butterfly headrests, RPM on HUD, huge trunk, very nice quality wood trim and aluminum trim, the clock. Also switchgear looks Lexus - don't see any Toyota switchgear here.
 Some things which are still omissions (a bit cheap) - headrests are still not electrically adjustable, sunroof screen is not electric, no electric trunk, lack of soft-close doors, passenger seat on F-Sport model, lack of four zone climate (3 zone only), lack of surround cameras, retro map graphics, etc.
 The car is so ugly - honestly if I was Akio, I would find the designer and torture him to death Caligula style. This car will sell maybe 50% of what it could sell if it had a vaguely decent exterior design. It looks like a generic cheap Japanese car on the outside. The taillights and headlights in particular look bog standard - they could be on an Acura or Honda.
 Can't wait to take a test drive
 I won't be in market for a GSF. This car is just too ugly and there is nothing the F Dept can do to change that. My next car will be M6 Gran Coupe.
 The Lexus interior makes the Audi A6 interior look like a Skoda!

I took a lot of pics, including a side by side versus a BMW.









GS is shorter by distance you see in this photo


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## bfv (Sep 30, 2010)

Both exterior and interior are quite ugly.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

bfv said:


> Both exterior and interior are quite ugly.


Well the interior has a number of features I quite liked which most of the F10 owners don't have:
1) Leather dash with contrast stitching
2) Adjustable side bolsters
3) Extendable seat cushions which don't separate but are seamless (like in the M5)
4) Much nicer steering wheel than the F10 (although I do like the thicker grip of the M-Sport wheel)
5) Very nice wood trim
6) The HUD is nowhere near as nice as the BMW one but it has RPM. I still want to murder the BMW guy who decided RPM is only for the M5.
7) Analog Clock
8) More comfortable seats

I really think that unless you have a top spec F10 interior like me and Needsdecaf, this interior is better than most F10s, and much better than the E-Class and A6 in terms of quality of materials, fit and finish. You have to sit in there to understand this. It feels rich.

The exterior on the other hand looks like any other cheap asian car - it could be an accord.


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## DreamCar (Sep 29, 2010)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> Well the interior has a number of features I quite liked which most of the F10 owners don't have:
> 1) Leather dash with contrast stitching
> 2) Adjustable side bolsters
> 3) Extendable seat cushions which don't separate but are seamless (like in the M5)
> ...


And also the side bolster support....i tried it once in 7 and it is pretty comfort!


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> I went to the Lexus of North Miami launch event for the 2013 GS350. Here are my takeaways:
> 
> [*]I like that the HUD has RPM, although the HUD display is small and monochrome - nowhere near as up to date as the BMW full color large HUD


The HUD looks like something from the GM days. Monochrome. BMW and Audis are superior.



> [*]They didn't let me drive one (only had corporate cars - said I could come back on Friday and drive an inventory car. However they took me for a ride in the front passenger seat and it appears to drive very well. Handling is excellent - clearly in BMW/Audi camp and way better than the Infiniti or Mercedes. Importantly there are no rattles.


You mean the same RWD car that matches the heavier AWD Audi's handling numbers? Not to mention, the heavier *AWD* Audi seems to get the same MPG as the lighter (lightest in its class right?), less powerful GS, which is pathetic on Lexus.



> [*] Excellent sound system. Probably best in class.


Doubtful. So many people have said B&O is better than Mark Levinson.


> [*] The tactile remote touch interface on this model works really well. I hated it on the HS, but I love it on the GS.


looking forward to checking out the new Remote Touch


> [*] The GPS does not let passenger program it while car is in motion - Seriously WTF! Also the GPS graphics are not as sexy as ours (although they probably have better quality maps)


Lexus still hasn't fixed this? WTF



> [*] Some things which are still omissions (a bit cheap) - headrests are still not electrically adjustable, sunroof screen is not electric, no electric trunk, lack of soft-close doors, passenger seat on F-Sport model, lack of four zone climate (3 zone only), lack of surround cameras, retro map graphics, etc.


I thought this was a Luxury car to match BMW/MB/Audi. Why so down on basic options?


> [*] This thing makes the Audi A6 look like a Skoda!


You must mean the A6 looks like a luxury car (like the F10), yet the GS looks like a cheap mismatch of random design cues.

I will say the interior is fantastic though.

It's pathetic that there is no V8 or F version and the performance numbers are so underwhelming. Being the lightest in its class, it should be owning the A6 and F10, yet the Audi A6 has still outclassed it, while being heavier.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

AutoUnion said:


> You must mean the A6 looks like a luxury car (like the F10), yet the GS looks like a cheap mismatch of random design cues.


Yeah I meant the interior. I meant to say that the Lexus interior makes the Audi interior look really cheap, just as the Audi exterior makes the Lexus exterior look cheap.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

My 550i is so gorgeous! I felt really bad pulling it alongside their new baby! Like dressing better than the groom at a wedding.


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## DreamCar (Sep 29, 2010)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> My 550i is so gorgeous! I felt really bad pulling it alongside their new baby! Like dressing better than the groom at a wedding.


Ha Ha Looks like you are obssesed with your car!
Did you test drive it?
Did it live up to the hype?


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## sanf (Jun 28, 2011)

It's a step up from the previous gen. I'll take my mom to test drive the GS F sport-AWD when it comes out.


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## armoredsaint (Apr 16, 2006)

i never liked the cheap looking Toyota fonts they keep using.

Stealth is that Carbon Black?


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## Financeman (Jan 14, 2009)

IMO the BMW is better looking...but I bet the Lexus price point will be about 5-10 grand south of a similarly equipped 535i.


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

Thanks for posting, nothing beats real life side by side pix and very detailed too. To me it got nothing on the F10 in the looks department inside and out. It still looks like granpa's country club ride on the inside and a weird mix of plain and aggressive cues on the outside. The C-pillar is just as awful as on the old model and throws any freshness out the door. I agree with Stealth, I can't see any possibility for Lexus to change enough to make the F-model attractive.


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## smashhell (Nov 18, 2011)

Financeman said:


> IMO the BMW is better looking...but I bet the Lexus price point will be about 5-10 grand south of a similarly equipped 535i.


They had already announced the pricing. RWD version $46,900, AWD $49,450.


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## sack-o-taters (Jan 5, 2012)

Great post Stealth, thanks for taking the time. I like the interior, sort of wish BMW offered a color in that range. 

10 years ago, my wife had a new LX 470. It had some sort of a problem that caused it to die randomly. On the basis of a single phone call, Lexus of San Antonio sent a flatbed trailer 90 miles to Austin, dropped off a new LS350, and took the 470 in. Kept it for 4 weeks waiting for a new ECU from Japan, then trailered it back up to Austin. 

Moral: Looks ain't everything. She loves her X5, but misses the Lexus service.


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## K-A (Nov 12, 2010)

Great side by side pics!

I'm sure the new GS is gonna be a great car, and the interior does look very neat/organized and lovely, but Japanese interiors are never "sexy" to me, there's just always a miss in how the shapes and angles work to my eyes when it comes to "sexiness", hard to put into words.

The 5 KILLS it exterior-wise, the new GS looks okay/normal everywhere, the rear is kind of drab and eventless, which wouldn't be a bad thing for a Lexus but this thing is trying to be aggressive back there, with those goofy pipes, that it just looks wrong.... But the FRONT, wow, what a hideous looking thing, absolutely in terrible taste.


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## Rambaldi (Aug 4, 2011)

Thanks for the pics and report Pilot. I can't judge the interior quality based on pictures only, but I don't find the interior design attractive either. Old-fashioned is the word that comes to my mind, but it is not an accurate description. It doesn't work for me anyway. Probably a great car otherwise.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

K-A said:


> Great side by side pics!
> 
> I'm sure the new GS is gonna be a great car, and the interior does look very neat/organized and lovely, but Japanese interiors are never "sexy" to me, there's just always a miss in how the shapes and angles work to my eyes when it comes to "sexiness", hard to put into words.
> 
> The 5 KILLS it exterior-wise, the new GS looks okay/normal everywhere, the rear is kind of drab and eventless, which wouldn't be a bad thing for a Lexus but this thing is trying to be aggressive back there, with those goofy pipes, that it just looks wrong.... But the FRONT, wow, what a hideous looking thing, absolutely in terrible taste.


I know the side by side pics are like Rosie Huntington-Whitely next to Ugly Betty.

The 550 M-Sport is probably the best looking sedan on the market right now.


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## sdg1871 (Mar 9, 2009)

Stealth.Pilot;6604033
The 550 M-Sport is probably the best looking sedan on the market right now.[/QUOTE said:


> How right you are.


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## PsychDoc1 (Feb 18, 2011)

Is it awd or just rwd? The interior looks (in many, many ways) to be an almost direct copy of the F10. The less said about the exterior, the better. What are the projected 0-60, 1/4 mile times compared to the 535?


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

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PsychDoc1 said:


> Is it awd or just rwd? The interior looks (in many, many ways) to be an almost direct copy of the F10. The less said about the exterior, the better. What are the projected 0-60, 1/4 mile times compared to the 535?


First of all you got to remember this car is priced against the 528i (identical starting price, and significantly cheaper than 528i if you get it fully loaded).

But, forget about claimed statistics - there are real statistics from Automobile Mag.

GS 350 F-Sport: 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 14.0 @ 100.9 mph

535i Sport: 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 14.1 @ 98.7 mph

E350 Sport: 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, 1/4 mile in 15.0 @95.4 mph

http://www.automobilemag.com/lexusgschallenge/

Video of the Automobile/Motortrend Track Test

I was not price constrained when I bought my car, but if my budget was $50-60k, I would get this GS over a 528i - no question.

From a performance and feature perspective, it seems they have built an E60:
- Car is ugly like E60
- Car has naturally aspirated engine like E60 - no lag and no HPFP worries
- Has comfy seats with adjustable bolsters like E60
- It is lighter than the E60 despite providing interior room on par with the F10.
- Has similar/better cornering Gs to E60 on the track
- Reviews say it has sportier handling and more communicative steering like the E60


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## Leslierc (Sep 6, 2006)

Nice photos Batman!


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## Sophisto (Jan 2, 2011)

Why are there so many posts about luxe Toyotas on this F10 Bimmer forum I wonder. :dunno:

When discussing these products, is there not somewhereabouts special for that.
Especially because all kinds of normally friendly posting BMW owners tend to get unfriendly with each other talking about these products.
In my opinion it really is not worth it, all the explicit attention giving to these cars.
The audi lexus MB discussion, it should be on the other pages, along with all the flame throwing that seems to be part of it.


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> The E60 was an ugly Korean inspired monster that caused someone like me - a hardcore enthusiast who drove exclusively BMWs since the age of 21, to switch to Lexus for 2.5 years till BMW launched the F10.
> 
> But yeah this Lexus design is probably worse.


Post a picture of your GS that makes that convincing in relation to this:

http://www.insixthgear.com/bmw/images/bmw-m5-e60-.jpg


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

solstice said:


> Post a picture of your GS that makes that convincing in relation to this:
> 
> http://www.insixthgear.com/bmw/images/bmw-m5-e60-.jpg


1) that's an M5
2) I no longer have a GS
3) I don't care because I have the best design of them all - F10 M-Sport.


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> 1) that's an M5
> 2) I no longer have a GS
> 3) open another thread for this off topic discussion and I will share a detailed design discussion.


It's an E60, a simple picture will do, no need for a whole thread.


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## wdimagineer (Dec 25, 2011)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> I'm being objective. I have a longer track record of buying BMWs than most, but your comment was just nonsensical.
> 
> Why would I buy a Lexus - they don't make 500hp sedans.


Nonsensical?

GS:









Avalon:









Camry:









Prius:









Not identical, but you can definitely see strong similarities between the buttons and switches, including the font on some.

Even some of the HVAC control buttons are nearly identical.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

^ **** my BMW has black rectangular buttons with white font too. It must have been made by Toyota. I'm going to sue BMW!!!!


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## wdimagineer (Dec 25, 2011)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> ^ **** my BMW has black rectangular buttons with white font too. It must have been made by Toyota. I'm going to sue BMW!!!!


:tsk:

Sure. And all cars have 4 wheels, so sue Karl Benz.

They look way too similar. If I'm plunking down a ton of money on a luxury car, the least they could do is spend a little more time on the details. Having driven Toyotas this bothers me. When I'm in a Lexus, I don't want to know it's a Toyota.


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## Sophisto (Jan 2, 2011)

Come on guys,
Buy a Lexus, or get a life.
But be done with these stupid argumentations


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

Sophisto said:


> Come on guys,
> Buy a Lexus, or get a life.
> But be done with these stupid argumentations


Yeah I shouldn't get too engaged with the haters here.

Besides I have already picked my next car and it's not a Lexus. It's the BMW M6 GC in Montecarlo/champagne for summer 2013 ED!


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## wdimagineer (Dec 25, 2011)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> Yeah I shouldn't get too engaged with the haters here.
> 
> Besides I have already picked my next car and it's not a Lexus. It's the BMW M6 GC in Montecarlo/champagne for summer 2013 ED!


The difference is that I don't hate. I just don't like. And I offered my opinion as to why, and you stated that it was nonsensical.

The GC is stunning. Will probably move to that next myself, or a 7.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

wdimagineer said:


> The difference is that I don't hate. I just don't like. And I offered my opinion as to why, and you stated that it was nonsensical.
> 
> The GC is stunning. Will probably move to that next myself, or a 7.


7 is okay but it isn't very "tossable". What I love about my 550i is I can throw it into corners at non-sensical speeds and it sticks.


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## soulunderdog (May 19, 2011)

Wow quite the emotion here! Gonna see one tomorrow for myself. Our GS 300 has been a great car - certainly not a BMW but a joy to drive and absolutely wonderful customer service. Will get it detailed shortly and dealer will give us a loaner. May not be the ultimate driving machine like my 535 but a luxury vehicle with no issues for 6.5 years.

Sent from my PC36100 using Bimmer


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

wdimagineer said:


> The difference is that I don't hate. I just don't like. And I offered my opinion as to why, and you stated that it was nonsensical.
> 
> The GC is stunning. Will probably move to that next myself, or a 7.


Expressing opinions on the cars are always cool, name calling aka hater etc or personal attacks not cool but unfortunately quite common here.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

solstice said:


> Expressing opinions on the cars are always cool, name calling aka hater etc or personal attacks not cool but unfortunately quite common here.


One of the coolest features on Bimmerfest is the ignore function.


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## Leslierc (Sep 6, 2006)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> Besides I have already picked my next car and it's not a Lexus. It's the BMW M6 GC in Montecarlo/champagne for summer 2013 ED!


Damn, now you've got me thinking about what might come next for me.:thumbup:

By the way, other than the looks of the new GS, which I don't think will ever become acceptable for me, I think Lexus needs to get beyond the wood steering wheel..it's not functional or friendly for driving.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

yellowmattei said:


> Thanks for the great write-up, Stealth. I'll be interested in your driving impressions, despite the fact I could never see myself buying a car that I knew I'd want to be done with in only a couple of years.


Yeah I have no interest in a car like this either. I'm a V8 guy and I like cars which have beauty so only the S7, CLS or 6 series would interest me.

But as a car enthusiast I test drive everything. In the past year alone I have driven the A6 3.0T, A7, XF, XFR, CLS550, CLS63, E550, E350, 535i, 550i, M5, M3, M56S, Panamera S, XJ Supersport - and that's just in the sedan segment of the market.


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> One of the coolest features on Bimmerfest is the ignore function.


For extreme cases yes but some like yourself mixes very interesting car centric posts like your M5 experience with some personal attacks. I don't want to ignore you so that function isn't really useful here. But this is how it is on the Internet so it's better just to ignore silly remarks.


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## TJPark01 (Oct 30, 2009)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> One of the coolest features on Bimmerfest is the ignore function.


Totally. Check out this video of an autocross 535i, GS350 FSport,E350. 
*2013 Lexus GS F SPORT *

COMPETITIVE RESULTS 
AUTOCROSS | TRACK


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## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

wdimagineer said:


> Quit being so arrogant. It's really irritating. If you're so defensive of Toyota and their products, go sell your 550 and buy one.


+1. Really -- fall for the siren's song if you will. The interior does look Toyota -- the switchgear on the side dash areas, the multi function, generic light and wiper stalks. The dash doesn't look integrated, it's like parts were slapped on. After you look at it a few more times, the novelty will wear off. Please, buy it and be happy.


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

markl53 said:


> +1. Really -- fall for the siren's song if you will. The interior does look Toyota -- the switchgear on the side dash areas, the multi function, generic light and wiper stalks. The dash doesn't look integrated, it's like parts were slapped on. After you look at it a few more times, the novelty will wear off. Please, buy it and be happy.


+3 on my ignore list


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't understand why some of the not so bright people on this forum think I want to buy this car. It's pretty obvious from my review on the first post that I don't think it is a great buy. And certainly not on par with my $90k BMW 550i Dinan Stage 2 modified vehicle.

I write a quality, objective and balanced review, and some people feel like reading a thread they should have no interest in and making banal comments, like it looks like a Toyota. And then suggesting that I should buy a Toyota, when clearly I drive a type of car they don't even make!

I can only assume that you like flaming or just want to be mean. If you are one of those - please add me to your ignore list, as I have already added you to mine.


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## alewifebp (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't really get the argument that the steering wheels of those cars look anything alike, except that they are round and share a central area with switchgear. The Lexus has one major advantage as it has a proper three spoke wheel compared to the four spokes on the others. Quite frankly, if any of us were to go buy a 760Li Individual and load up spending well over $100K, the same assertion could be made about BMW and the similarities of their exteriors and interiors. The same stalk design has been shared between 128 and 760 alike. The interior of the 760Li is nearly the same look as the 528, an 80K differential in price. BMW is certainly not the best example to bring up when talking about the same sausage, different lengths of cars within a brand. The only difference is that here they are all called BMW, while Toyota and Lexus have different brands.

Overall, the GS looks very attractive inside, with an improved look to things and a visibly improved material quality. Lexus dealerships are generally top notch, and service has always been excellent, as well as reliability. Dynamically they are certainly improving, and I look forward to what they do with a redesigned LS. I would need to see some more varied and improved powertrain choices before I even consider a GS. With the exception of the tire situation and not to be trusted navigation system, I love my 550. I will always keep my eyes open though.


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## alewifebp (Sep 20, 2008)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> And hope I don't come to your house and kill your family.


Whoa, whoa, whoa! :yikes::eeps:

That is simply not necessary. It's only opinions about a car.

FWIW, I thought your preview was even handed.


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## K-A (Nov 12, 2010)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> The steering wheel and switchgear looks nothing like any Toyota. If you need to say that to justify an investment in a second rate 4 cylinder 528 than I feel sorry for you and your plastic seats.


For someone who doesn't drive like a doofus, requiring 400+ HP and lousy MPG when living on traffic congested roads, and buys a car that looks, feels, functions and is built exactly and identically as yours, aside from the block underhood, please describe how you draw the conclusion of "second rate"? Do we all need Dinan tuned V8 TT's to drive, even if we don't tap into the power of a moderate V6 motor? Or is this a situation where if somebody isn't happy with their nature-given physicalness, they all of a sudden will be? I'm confused.

Edit: Okay, just noticed "4-Cylinder".... Must admit, I'm prejudiced against them as well, even regardless of power output.


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## highyo (Jun 12, 2009)

The GS is lacking in soul, besides being butt ugly. I concur with most on this thread regarding the interior too. It looks quite slapdash and thrown together. I do not have the benefit of sitting in it, but I wouldn't even make it to the drivers side door without walking away because of the exterior styling.


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## nhs156 (Apr 29, 2007)

There are several things that will always prevent me from buying a Lexus:

1. I can't get over the badge - I will probably always view them as expensive, rebadged Toyotas.
2. They're quite possibly the most unoriginal designer of car exteriors, interiors and features, copying the Germans on more fronts that I can count.


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## K-A (Nov 12, 2010)

When I see the "L" badge, the Lexus name, etc., it just reminds me of the 90's, when Lexus basically invented and defined itself. It never lost that "Created in the 90's" stigma to me, which makes it instantly dated to me, aside from the usually super-quickly dating designs.

M-B and BMW were from a period long ago (especially M-B), far before I was born, so the badges and marquee's just have this history and classic aura/mystique that I can't help but admit, intrigues me. This isn't to say that a lousy product that they put out would get a pass by me VS a Lexus, but it does say that it gives them a helluva'n automatic advantage.


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## wdimagineer (Dec 25, 2011)

Stealth.Pilot said:


> And certainly not on par with my $90k BMW 550i Dinan Stage 2 modified vehicle.


How's your Stage 2 flash working out? Oh, wait...


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

This is how the ignore function takes effect (see bottom of screen). I would request that Markl53, K-A, Solstice and WDimagineer use this to make this thread less bothersome to them. To do this you should right click on my screen name, and then select add to ignore list.


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## K-A (Nov 12, 2010)

No fun in only listening to yourself talk.


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## ksoze (Nov 24, 2010)

Is it that shocking that a thread titled "Lexus GS350" is going to have opinions on Lexus? I found the review and excellent pics informative. I may not buy one, but always like seeing other models in the class. Forget the ignore if the comments annoy - just skip the thread.


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## TJPark01 (Oct 30, 2009)

> @alewifebp - Overall, the GS looks very attractive inside, with an improved look to things and a visibly improved material quality. Lexus dealerships are generally top notch, and service has always been excellent, as well as reliability. Dynamically they are certainly improving, and I look forward to what they do with a redesigned LS. I would need to see some more varied and improved powertrain choices before I even consider a GS. With the exception of the tire situation and not to be trusted navigation system, I love my 550. I will always keep my eyes open though.


:thumbup: Thanks for injecting some common sense into this thread.


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## DreamCar (Sep 29, 2010)

I seriuosly dont understand whats wrong with us, every time we have a discussion/comparision with Audi/Benz/Lexus we end up swearing each other!

First of all whats wrong with the comparision? we are comparing with decent competitors, if BMW is the only car that is best then we wouldn't have these many car brands!

Are we trying to be like frogs in a well? who thinks the well is the entire world? 

I don't know if my comment counts in any way but this time i didnt like the guys who had some good contributions to this forum getting on each other with pissing competition!

"I was amazed when i heard when there are people who believed that earth is flat and were really pissed to know it is round" no wonder!


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

Lexus seems to suffer from separation anxiety. They want to become more like BMW and less like Buick but don't dare to go the full distance. Perhaps next time. I applaud the change in direction and are looking forward to see what comes. The LF-A is proof that they can if they want. It's understandably scary to alienate your traditional customers so taking a piece by piece approach could look like a safer strategy. We'll know when the wood wheel is gone.


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## baloo588 (Jul 31, 2005)

I drove the new 2011 GS today and wow I was very impressed. Its very sporty and has the best steering feel compared to BMW and Mercedes. It is also more nimbler and feels sharper. The braking is vastly improved and overrall it is a great car with Lexus hallmarks but more feeling of roads like my BMW 535i. I see this car selling alot more than previous generation. And the lease residual for 3 years is 63%!!!!


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## solstice (Aug 1, 2010)

baloo588 said:


> I drove the new 2011 GS today and wow I was very impressed. Its very sporty and has the best steering feel compared to BMW and Mercedes. It is also more nimbler and feels sharper. The braking is vastly improved and overrall it is a great car with Lexus hallmarks but more feeling of roads like my BMW 535i. I see this car selling alot more than previous generation. And the lease residual for 3 years is 63%!!!!


You mean the new GS, right? If so, very nice to hear. We need the other manufacturers to put pressure on BMW to keep the fleet strong.


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## baloo588 (Jul 31, 2005)

solstice

Yep, the new 2013 GS. I had the older 2006 and by god this new GS is nothing like the older one in a great way! BMW should keep looking in the rear view mirror to keep their products up to date and in good quality and driving feel.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

baloo588 said:


> I drove the new 2011 GS today and wow I was very impressed. Its very sporty and has the best steering feel compared to BMW and Mercedes. It is also more nimbler and feels sharper. The braking is vastly improved and overrall it is a great car with Lexus hallmarks but more feeling of roads like my BMW 535i. I see this car selling alot more than previous generation. And the lease residual for 3 years is 63%!!!!


So Lexus is becoming just like BMW by inflating residuals!! :rofl:


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## Stealth.Pilot (Jul 2, 2009)

AutoUnion said:


> So Lexus is becoming just like BMW by inflating residuals!! :rofl:


It may be well founded though. I recently sold my mother's ES350 (which was at the end of a 3 year lease) and instead of returning it to Lexus, I traded it to Carmax and got $4500 cash back. So the car's trade in value exceeded the residual value by 12% at the end of 36 months.

My guess is that Lexus and BMW may just be inflating residuals in line with true depreciation.

Used car prices are at an all time high.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2101344_2100916_2100924,00.html


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

RWS is an option on the Sport. Wife sent a pic of one with the Cabernet interior... nice. Reminds me of Terra on BMW.


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

I liked it when I looked at it but that mouse type interface drove me nuts standing still...forget about while moving. A lot of good tech in the car and while lacking oompf, it handled very nicely. All around decent car but not for us. Very happy with our 550.


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

brkf said:


> RWS is an option on the Sport. Wife sent a pic of one with the Cabernet interior... nice. Reminds me of Terra on BMW.


Ok, was not aware of that. TBH, I don't think the car needs it. I was quite impressed with the turning radius, given how large the car is. Seemed better than the M3 I had at the time.

Even without the 'oomph,' I would consider it for a DD if I didn't still have my Taco, we had the garage space, and my wife didn't already have one.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Justin T said:


> I liked it when I looked at it but that mouse type interface drove me nuts standing still...forget about while moving. A lot of good tech in the car and while lacking oompf, it handled very nicely. All around decent car but not for us. Very happy with our 550.


About the same 0-60 as the 535i - mid 5s. :dunno: The 550i is a wee bit more pricey.


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

brkf said:


> About the same 0-60 as the 535i - mid 5s. :dunno: The 550i is a wee bit more pricey.


I know...but it just felt slow compared to the 535. FWIW the cap cost for my 550 was the same as the MSRP for a well optioned GS. Plus it was really the mouse interface that I really did not like.


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## wyb (Jul 10, 2008)

Justin T said:


> I liked it when I looked at it but that mouse type interface drove me nuts standing still...*forget about while moving*. A lot of good tech in the car and while lacking oompf, it handled very nicely. All around decent car but not for us. Very happy with our 550.


I'm glad it wasn't just me that thought this... I want stuff to get easier, not more difficult to use while driving! :eeps:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

wyb said:


> I'm glad it wasn't just me that thought this... I want stuff to get easier, not more difficult to use while driving! :eeps:


Wife read the same complaints. She told me it was basically like learning to use iDrive. Five minutes it was fine just like iDrive. Just kinda accept nothing is intuitive at first...

After our bad experiences with 4 BMWs it's unlikely I'll get her into a BMW for some time.


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## K-A (Nov 12, 2010)

The mouse interface drove me so nuts the first time I drove one, that I couldn't figure out how to change the radio station and just frustratedly turned it all off. I'm usually very quick to adapt to any tech, it's all second nature to me, but this was the first unit so unintuitive that I actually did that.

The power train of the GS also feels very dated. The noises, the way it shifts, etc., just feels "old" in that regard. The N55/ZF might not be that much "faster", but the way it makes power is much better balanced, sounding, and refined.


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## eazy (Aug 20, 2002)

K-A said:


> The mouse interface drove me so nuts the first time I drove one, that I couldn't figure out how to change the radio station and just frustratedly turned it all off. I'm usually very quick to adapt to any tech, it's all second nature to me, but this was the first unit so unintuitive that I actually did that.
> 
> The power train of the GS also feels very dated. The noises, the way it shifts, etc., just feels "old" in that regard. The N55/ZF might not be that much "faster", but the way it makes power is much better balanced, sounding, and refined.


The car never felt dated to me except for the 6 speed auto which now replaced by the 8 speed if you get the rear wheel drive version. The problem I have with the car is that the all wheel drive equipment invading the driver side footwell. However the interference is not as bad as the IS 350


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

K-A said:


> The mouse interface drove me so nuts the first time I drove one, that I couldn't figure out how to change the radio station and just frustratedly turned it all off. I'm usually very quick to adapt to any tech, it's all second nature to me, but this was the first unit so unintuitive that I actually did that.
> 
> The power train of the GS also feels very dated. The noises, the way it shifts, etc., just feels "old" in that regard. The N55/ZF might not be that much "faster", but the way it makes power is much better balanced, sounding, and refined.


Agree with all of this. I crossed it off the list for these reasons. But, if you can get past these or if these do not bother you, the car offers a good bit of luxury for the money.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Ajax,

Thanks for the input. She's pretty sold on it - sees only positives v our experience with BMW/Audi. I'm trying to keep her at bay at least until my BMW lease is up.


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