# My personal quest to become a pro surf photographer (no 56K)



## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

I've got a long, long way to go, but the I find the challenge exhilarating...

What do you think of these?

Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated.

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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

Tired of listening to other people's problems?!

:angel: 

Just retire like I did and do whatever you want Jon!


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## Ishniknork (Aug 22, 2005)

Oh boy, are you asking for it! :rofl:

Please don't take anything I say to harshly, I'm no pro either.
Those look like some pretty good action shots to me! I really like #7. A closer zoom on it would have been cool. More surfer, a little less water.

Were they taken around 11 AM to 1 or 2 PM? It's not really _your_ fault but too bad the sun was so high. Mid-day is not the greatest time to shoot. If the sun had been more to the east the subjects wouldn't have been better lit and not silhouetted so much. I know they have wet suits on but I think you'd get more subject detail earlier in the day.

That's all from me, and it's just an amature's opinion. I still think they're good shots!

BTW, you gonna watch 'John from Cincinnatti' on HBO? Looks like a surfing show.

Cheers!


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Ishniknork said:


> Oh boy, are you asking for it! :rofl:
> 
> Please don't take anything I say to harshly, I'm no pro either.
> Those look like some pretty good action shots to me! I really like #7. A closer zoom on it would have been cool. More surfer, a little less water.
> ...


Thanks for the follow-up!

The sun at Rincon is particularly tough as this point actually faces SSE.

Not much I can do about that ~ it's also a world-class break... 

Here's a little gallery from today with unprocessed images:

http://jon.bimmerfest.com/surf/springsession/

There are a bunch more barrels (tubes) if you like to see those... 









Haven't seen anything about that show...


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## kster (Sep 5, 2002)

My few comments:
1. Get closer or use a longer lens. It would be nice to see a few close-ups mixed in.
2. The surfers look almost like a silhouette (they are underexposed).

I also don't feel much of an emotional impact by looking at these pictures. Maybe some close-ups showing facial expressions would have helped.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

And here I thought becoming a shrink was your second career :dunno: 

At some point, I would enjoy retiring from software development and using photography to supplement my income.


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## Next M3 (Jul 18, 2006)

Buy a housing kit for your camera and get in the water!
Also, pick up a 500mm or longer lens. Shoot more saturates colors for impact. If you have the opportunity shoot with better light to improve your porfolio.


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## #5880 (Feb 11, 2006)

Needs more naked girls..


Nice shots. How do they look with a little overexposure to compensate for the sun?


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## SC400 (Jan 21, 2007)

Jon said:


> I've got a long, long way to go, but the I find the challenge exhilarating...
> 
> What do you think of these?
> 
> ...


Hi Jon,

I guess you asked for it. So I'll toss in my .02 worth of few simple guideline suggestions.

Let me start by saying that you've captured some nice images. I feel that you can improve them. Remenber the more you shoot, the more you learn. That is, if you critically evaluate what you have shot. When you can, find web sites of pro's who shoot the same type or subject matter that you are shooting, Study their work and analyze what makes their particular image great.

Also remember it isn't the camera, as so many people in this forum seem to think, as noted by their simplistic questions, it's the eyes and brain behind the camera that create the image. A good photographer can make a great image with a box camera.

1. When possible, keep sun located behind your right shoulder. You are shooting into your light source, the camera's meter is exposing for the bright background and your subject is in shadow. Backlighting can be an effective technique, but not necessarily in this case.

2. Try to keep your subject out of dead center of the image. Always try to leave more space in front of the subject than behing it. That way the subject has a visual "place to go".

3. Crop you images more judiciously. That is, eliminate excessive foreground water and bkg. sky in several of these images. Eliminate distractions, as in image #1. The viewer's eye doesn't know where to go, so it bounces back and forth making for a weaker image. I suggest cropping the outbound surfer on the left.

4. Remember to keep you primary subject well illuminated so the viewer understands the message your photo is conveying.

5. Look at specialty magazines, such as surfing mags in this case, and see what kind of images they publish. Compare your images and use the published ones as a learning tool to see what you can do to equal or outdo their images.

Once again nice images and keep on shooting!


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## beauport (Jul 2, 2002)

Rather than addressing the images you've posted and since you know the subject matter of what you're shooting, ask yourself these questions; are these the kinds of images I might see in a surfing mag? (yes they are of surfing of course, but of the quality/uniqueness level found in mags?) What makes these any different from the next guy with a decent camera and lens? What other subjects/areas do I want to photograph? If only surfing, who will be buying my photos? Are you prepared to provide different media of your work, Prints, digital, etc.?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

This is all great advice ~~ I really appreciate it. Five months ago I knew only of shooting in full auto mode. A 7,500 click crash course is beginning to pay off. People (individuals) are buying some pics, and the work is very rewarding... 

Unfortunately, a new 500mm lens is not in the immediate future. Maybe add a 1.4 TC to my 400, but slower AF and overall IQ is a big concern.

I just went through the last batch (took 400+/- pics past 2 days) and there are some that do speak to what has been addressed in this thread. I try not to crop, but looks like I probably should with the lens I'm now using.

Anyway, here is a better one from yesterday. Not cropped (yet). 

EDIT: Most surfers (especially the older guys) have _never_ seen a picture of themselves surfing. To them it seems, showing the wave (the bigger the better) is the most important thing. They are my clients now. However, getting published in a magazine would be much cooler, so I will take your advice. THANK YOU!!


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## SC400 (Jan 21, 2007)

beauport said:


> Rather than addressing the images you've posted and since you know the subject matter of what you're shooting, ask yourself these questions; are these the kinds of images I might see in a surfing mag? (yes they are of surfing of course, but of the quality/uniqueness level found in mags?) What makes these any different from the next guy with a decent camera and lens? What other subjects/areas do I want to photograph? If only surfing, who will be buying my photos? Are you prepared to provide different media of your work, Prints, digital, etc.?


I believe I pretty much already said all that.


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## SC400 (Jan 21, 2007)

Hi Jon, If you are interested, PM me with your email address and I'll attach what my vision of your last image is. A little difficult with a jpeg, but still viewable. Best Regards, John



Jon said:


> This is all great advice ~~ I really appreciate it. Five months ago I knew only of shooting in full auto mode. A 7,500 click crash course is beginning to pay off. People (individuals) are buying some pics, and the work is very rewarding...
> 
> Unfortunately, a new 500mm lens is not in the immediate future. Maybe add a 1.4 TC to my 400, but slower AF and overall IQ is a big concern.
> 
> ...


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

SC400 said:


> Hi Jon, If you are interested, PM me with your email address and I'll attach what my vision of your last image is. A little difficult with a jpeg, but still viewable. Best Regards, John


Sounds cool! Email sent.

I have all of these images in Canon RAW files too...


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## ___lk___ (Dec 21, 2001)

try hanging out a bit on http://www.sportsshooter.com/

lotsa working pros on that board.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Jon said:


> Here's a little gallery from today with unprocessed images:


Jon,

#4 the surfer shooting vertically out of the water, dark against the sunlit waves.....nice and different, it becomes about more than just surfing. I'd crop it left and right though, make a vertical picture out of it. I've included a quick crop. You might try and darken the sky (more blue) and bring out the white in the waves.

As has been pointed out, cropping is an important tool - you might want to rent "endless summer" and study the composition of the shots, you can learn an awful lot from film as well as other photographers.

I like the panoramic sig pic best - I connect to it emotionally.

Ed


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

___lk___ said:


> try hanging out a bit on http://www.sportsshooter.com/
> 
> lotsa working pros on that board.


Thanks for the tip Larry. Btw, I tried emailing you recently, but the address we have on file for your user registration here is not valid...





EdCT said:


> Jon,
> 
> #4 the surfer shooting vertically out of the water, dark against the sunlit waves.....nice and different, it becomes about more than just surfing. I'd crop it left and right though, make a vertical picture out of it. I've included a quick crop. You might try and darken the sky (more blue) and bring out the white in the waves.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ed. Vey helpful info. Btw, that sig panorama is one of my faves too. I have it printed on a 12x18 foam board -- looks great in my office...


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

I think I'm starting to get it about post-processing & cropping...

Is this better? Does this image evoke a response?

Edit: re-worked another one. What do you think?


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Jon said:


> I think I'm starting to get it about post-processing & cropping...
> 
> Is this better? Does this image evoke a response?
> 
> Edit: re-worked another one. What do you think?


Jon,

Nice, in both photos the surfer is moving from right to left and you did the right thing, you left space on the left side of the frame - it's where the viewer's eye travels.:thumbup:

I learned recently, in studying film, about how it's more comfortable and natural for viewers to follow a subject from left to right, the direction we're used to reading. Naturally you have to take the action the way it comes, but it's one of those things I've become a bit obsessed with spotting (especially in movies).


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Jon said:


> I think I'm starting to get it about post-processing & cropping...
> 
> Is this better? Does this image evoke a response?
> 
> Edit: re-worked another one. What do you think?


Yup...better. 
Have you tried it using center-weighted metering for these shots? With focus on the surfers you might get better exposure, since they seem a bit under exposed. I've had success doing it this way with race cars on tracks. But it can also backfire depending on how the sun is, so YMMV.


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## JDMOTO (Aug 10, 2005)

Jon said:


> EDIT: Most surfers (especially the older guys) have _never_ seen a picture of themselves surfing. To them it seems, showing the wave (the bigger the better) is the most important thing. They are my clients now. However, getting published in a magazine would be much cooler, so I will take your advice. THANK YOU!!


Here is some advise from someone that started shooting photography last year and is now shooting for published magazines. Check out some pictures that you see in magazine that you like. flip through the pages and check out the pictures you love the most. Then figure out why its your favorite pictures. Is it the lighting, the framing, the action, or all of them. This will push you to go beyond and the expand your creative thinking. Also if your going into shooting sports (Surfing) I would invest in a case to shoot in the water.

Also, Im not sure if you have any sufing buddies or if you only have a certain time of day to hit the waves, but if you can try shooting very early morning or close to dusk with a buddy of yours. This will help give a better color. Also if they have a different body suit? just for your portfolio.

good luck on your quest.

Jon D


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

The learning process continues...

What do you think about this one?


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

That looks better. Did you bump up your ISO? If so, you might try Noise Ninja. The water looks a little noisy. 

What's your equipment? Just curious. For auto races I'm using a Nikon D200 with 18-200/3.5-5.6 VR, a Sigma 150/2.8 and a Nikon 300/4 AF-S. I'm trying to get a 70-200/2.8 VR, and a 1.4x TC for that and my 300/4.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dwette said:


> That looks better. Did you bump up your ISO? If so, you might try Noise Ninja. The water looks a little noisy.
> 
> What's your equipment? Just curious. For auto races I'm using a Nikon D200 with 18-200/3.5-5.6 VR, a Sigma 150/2.8 and a Nikon 300/4 AF-S. I'm trying to get a 70-200/2.8 VR, and a 1.4x TC for that and my 300/4.


I ditched the circular polarizer and bumped the ISO to 200.

Where do I find Noise Ninja? Is it free? :angel:

I shoot with a Canon 20D. Most of my surf pics are taken with my 400mm prime (f/5.6L), or the 70-200 f/2.8L IS). Haven't experimented much with TCs as they seem to adversely effect focus speed (camera "hunting")...

Check out this little "Grommet". Couldn't be much more than 6 years old...


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

Jon said:


> I ditched the circular polarizer and bumped the ISO to 200.
> 
> Where do I find Noise Ninja? Is it free? :angel:
> 
> ...


FWIW, a good TC (in other words, one of the spendy ones from Canon) should work fine with that 70-200. I use a Nikon 1.4TC with my 80-200 f2.8 AF-S with great results.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Jon said:


> I ditched the circular polarizer and bumped the ISO to 200.
> 
> Where do I find Noise Ninja? Is it free? :angel:


ISO 200 shouldn't be noisy. Maybe it was just seeing a low res jpg on my screen. Noise Ninja is not free, but it's not expensive either. Google will find it for you easily enough. You can download a demo. You shouldn't need it until you hit ISO 800 or higher.

Nice gear. If I did it all over I might consider Canon. It seems they have a better choice of lenses and Nikon is really slow to come out with more image stabilized lenses.

I think I might sell my 18-200 VR lens and go with a 70-200/2.8, plus either a 17-55/2.8 or a 28-70/2.8. I don't mind carrying two lenses and changing them, and I'll eventually get a second camera body.


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

Jon said:


> I ditched the circular polarizer and bumped the ISO to 200.


I would put the circ-pol back on. Your shooting in sunlight and near water.... 2 of the biggest reasons to use a circ-pol. I know the angle is NOT right for the full effect, but even so, you can see that the water becomes muddy and all the saturation of the colors becomes muddy... :dunno:

As others suggested, try spot metering. you might end up blowing out some of the highlights of the water, but get creative with the cropping...

Another thing to consider is to do a little research on sharpening techniques. You would be surprised how much more detail can be seen with the correct sharpening.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Jon said:


> The learning process continues...
> 
> What do you think about this one?


Yeah, it's noisy (and I'm seeing some spots either on the lens or on the sensor), but it's a nice crop, excellent composition, the surfer, moving from the middle right of the frame to lower left, forms a nice triangle against the ridge of the wave which rises from the middle right to the upper left - very cool.

Also, the surfer's arms point us in the direction of travel, but his curved body offsets all the triangulation.
Ed


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Test_Engineer said:


> As others suggested, try spot metering. you might end up blowing out some of the highlights of the water, but get creative with the cropping...


I think center-weighted metering should blow out the highlights somewhat less than spot metering. I would try that first, and experiment some with the center-weighting settings.

Some post-processing software should help. I've been using Adobe Lightroom and really like it so far, even though it can be a memory pig and slow at times.

I've been doing some racing shots using center-weighted. I got a start on my Sebring pictures, but still have many to process.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

If you want some inspiration, there are some awesome surfing pictures here.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dwette said:


> I think center-weighted metering should blow out the highlights somewhat less than spot metering. I would try that first, and experiment some with the center-weighting settings.
> 
> Some post-processing software should help. I've been using Adobe Lightroom and really like it so far, even though it can be a memory pig and slow at times.
> 
> I've been doing some racing shots using center-weighted. I got a start on my Sebring pictures, but still have many to process.


Very nice pics Dean. :thumbup:

And Jon, keep working at it. They continue to look better and better. A lot of it is just the seat time...

Alex


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## RDobie (May 26, 2007)

Jon

Sorry I got to this late but you ought the find a Canon photograhy board. I use Nikon so I belong to the Nikonians. The board has professionals that can provide you tips on using your camera as well as light, speed and etc.

The can also help with on hos to get started as a Professional.

Good Luck

Rob


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## booker (Aug 7, 2007)

Plenty of folks have given feedback on your photos, so I'll refrain from adding more fuel to that fire. As a "semi-pro" photog, let me say that your rig, lighting, subjects, composition, whatever; is all secondary. Let me explain..

Of the 6 billion people on the planet, there are few things more people do on a regular basis than take pictures, save paying taxes and wiping their ass. Nearly everyone has taken an incredible picture at least once, and anyone who puts a little time into their craft can take pretty good pictures on a regular basis. This is where the hobby ends.

The toughest part of being a professional photographer is accepting that there are thousands of other people taking great pictures; pictures greater than yours and with higher frequency. The way you make a better living than 90% of them is _business_; not photography. That means you analyze your market, promote yourself and your product and work like a MF'er. Of the successful pros that I know, 15-25% of their time is taking pictures. The rest is running their business of being a photographer.

Cheers


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## E36Guy (Jun 17, 2005)

Very nice shots Jon.. your photography definitely looks like it's getting better in my opinion.  Love the one of the grom too. That's awesome.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Good news to report: I've made it!

Hired today by "Blue Edge" an "Action Adventure Magazine"...



My fire coverage pics are also going to appear in tomorrow's paper.

Here's a gallery of unedited, super lo-res proofs: http://rinconsurfpics.com/fire/index.htm

The last two were taken from my back yard..

:eeps:


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## E36Guy (Jun 17, 2005)

Wow, congratulations.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Congrats, Jon! :thumbup:

When I look at IMG_4112 and IMG_4113, I have to say that it looks more like an exploding volcano than a forrest fire. Strange.

On an unrelated note, last week, I determined that it is my personal quest to SELL all of my Canon gear and do something else. 


.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

WTG!!!

Alex


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Congrats, Jon! :thumbup:
> 
> When I look at IMG_4112 and IMG_4113, I have to say that it looks more like an exploding volcano than a forrest fire. Strange.
> 
> ...


I'll take your 1D Mk II...

:angel:


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Congrats, Jon! :thumbup:
> 
> When I look at IMG_4112 and IMG_4113, I have to say that it looks more like an exploding volcano than a forrest fire. Strange.
> 
> ...


:eeps::eeps: Any reasonably priced L glass?


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