# how horrible is a stock audio system??



## johnjwkim (Mar 30, 2005)

I am driving maxima with bose system.
Comparing to my current bose system, e90's stock will be horrible???
If they are about to same quality, I don't mind having a stock audio....... :tsk:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I'll move this to the Audio Forum.

There are a bunch of threads on this topic.


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## whippet (Apr 9, 2005)

johnjwkim said:


> I am driving maxima with bose system.
> Comparing to my current bose system, e90's stock will be horrible???
> If they are about to same quality, I don't mind having a stock audio....... :tsk:


Some people like Bose, but most audio experts really despise Bose because they are set up to boost mid-range output and thus seem "louder" at a cost to fidelity. So, the base BMW stereo (which I've read is much improved) would in the opinion of most be superior to a Bose unit.


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## Soho (May 10, 2005)

BMW has added more speakers in the base model (10 total) including two subwoofers under the front two seats. You can really feel the music in the seat of your pants  

The upgraded system is actually still by Harmann Kardon (not Bose) but is now upgraded to the Logic 7 home theater system. You can adjust not only the bass and treble but you have a complete Equalizer to play with. 

I suggest trying out the system and then deciding if the Logic 7 is worth the money. I think it is. :thumbup:

But regardless, either way you won't be disappointed.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

It depends on your definition of good sound. BMW stereos these days, are actually among the best on the market. Unfortunately, most people think that the boom box sound is correct and natural, and that a relatively neutral system sounds like crap.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> It depends on your definition of good sound. BMW stereos these days, are actually among the best on the market. Unfortunately, most people think that the boom box sound is correct and natural, and that a relatively neutral system sounds like crap.


Very sad but true. And that's how Bose got their name imprinted in most consumers' heads. They managed to "reinvent" the definition of good sound. No doubt, Bose is very successful in marketing but in terms of audio fidelity, be it car or home, they are among one of the worst manufacturers I can think of. And you still hear people saying everyday, "oh, my bose system sounds so much better than yours!"


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

mkh said:


> Very sad but true. And that's how Bose got their name imprinted in most consumers' heads. They managed to "reinvent" the definition of good sound. No doubt, Bose is very successful in marketing but in terms of audio fidelity, be it car or home, they are among one of the worst manufacturers I can think of. And you still hear people saying everyday, "oh, my bose system sounds so much better than yours!"


 No highs, no lows, must be Bose!


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## elmalloc (Dec 7, 2003)

still don't agree with these comments - I agree it's a neutral sound, but it is not capable of handling enough SPL for me with the top/windows down in my convertible (the sound quality goes to hell) - I'm used to the tinny sound now, I remember coming from my other car there was an immediate lack of sound quality.

I'm going to throw 1 or 2 quality 10" subs in the trunk and see what happens, it feels like it's lacking 20-70hz bass.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

elmalloc said:


> I'm going to throw 1 or 2 quality 10" subs in the trunk and see what happens, it feels like it's lacking 20-70hz bass.


 "Lacking 20-70 Hz bass" --- that sounds like a good description of most live music.


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## elmalloc (Dec 7, 2003)

YOu're missing an adjective. Maybe you don't listen to anything that's under 70 hz. I took a stab too, I wouldn't be surprised if our stock audio (and mine's "premium HK") is missing below 110 hz.

Just to let you know, there is a lot of audio under 100 hz, I don't quite see your defense. Bagpipes go down to below 20 hz, tell me again if someone is playing a bagpipe in your room - is that not live music? You wouldn't even hear it. 

Using your own example against you, I doubt anyone listens to bag pipes in their car - but there is a lot more "live music" out there that our stock audio is utter **** at. Face it man, you spent 30-50K + on your car, and audio was not focused on.

The human ear can differentiate down to ~16 hz.

PS - I comment only on my current E46 '05 with premium audio (in a convertible), the audio is passable with the top up (must have some lower frequency reflections occuring), the car is unable to deliver good SQ with the top down because the speakers aren't able to handle a lot of volume and the lack of a "real" subwoofer hurts. I hear the e90 is upgraded, but haven't heard it yet.

-ELmO


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

elmalloc said:


> YOu're missing an adjective. Maybe you don't listen to anything that's under 70 hz.


 I do listen to music that is under 70 Hz, but there is not much of it. Digeridoo comes to mind. And the 1812 Overture done properly.


> Just to let you know, there is a lot of audio under 100 hz, I don't quite see your defense. Bagpipes go down to below 20 hz, tell me again if someone is playing a bagpipe in your room - is that not live music? You wouldn't even hear it.


 If someone were playing the Highland Pipes in my living room, I guarantee you I would hear it. And I do play pipe music in my cars. I played bodhran with a piper just last night, and didn't hear very many of those sub 100 Hz notes. Let's see, if middle A is 440 Hz, then low A is 220 Hz, and A below low A is 110 Hz. At three octaves down A finally hits 55 Hz. As I said, not a lot of music at that low of a frequency.


> Using your own example against you, I doubt anyone listens to bag pipes in their car - but there is a lot more "live music" out there that our stock audio is utter **** at. Face it man, you spent 30-50K + on your car, and audio was not focused on.


 Well, I bought a car, not a concert hall --- and I DO like my music. And I want it to sound like the live performance, not all tweaked out with more bass, treble, or anything else.



> The human ear can differentiate down to ~16 hz.


 In exceptional cases, but that's not where music resides (again, except in a few cases).



> PS - I comment only on my current E46 '05 with premium audio (in a convertible), the audio is passable with the top up (must have some lower frequency reflections occuring), the car is unable to deliver good SQ with the top down because the speakers aren't able to handle a lot of volume and the lack of a "real" subwoofer hurts. I hear the e90 is upgraded, but haven't heard it yet.
> 
> -ELmO


 Audio in a convertible has always been extremely difficult

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I fail to see the need for multi-hundred watt amplifiers and sub-woofers that only serve to give the occupants (and anybody nearby) a full-body massage.

I think I'll generate a series of 22.5, 55, and 110 Hz tones, burn them to CD and see it the stock HK audio can reproduce them. Hmmm


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## elmalloc (Dec 7, 2003)

Reproduce them at the right levels.

Lots of speakers can reproduce low end, their SPL isn't high enough to be called a "balanced" system. Our BMW systems are no way fully balanced if we're going to use the term in taht manner. 

I invite you to burn some Bass frequency CDs (which most people who are into car audio have multiple of) and try them out on a stock BMW system. Then find a car that's upgraded, or take it to a car audio shop and ask them to play that CD in a "balanced" car, and listen to how their lower frequencies sound.

There is a lot of music out there (read: non-mainstream) that our car does not reproduce well.

You can't ask a 6x9 speaker that handles low wattages to be able to reproduce a low frequency at the correct SPL. 

I hate using the term SPL everywhre as it seems you think I'm looking for a system that completely shatters the windows and people's brains anywhere around it. In a proper system setup, a subwoofer can be heard reproducing low frequencies even at very low volume levels (i.e. sound quality) - the difference I can only explain it as feeling as though you're listening to a "full, warm" sound as opposed to what we listen to in our car which lacks true low frequency reproduction, to me.

-ELmO


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

I think it's just a matter of taste.
I play CD I have made from my original recordings in my car with the stock H-K system and it sounds just like the original live performance did, just not as loud. That's by choice; I don't want music THAT loud in my car. No discernable distortion is present, which is my own primary criterion of a "good" system.
To each his (or her) own. This BMW owner is satisfied with the BMW H-K system. I only changed out the head unit in my coupe to get navigation.
This has been an interesting discussion, Elmo. Thanks.


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## phunkfarm (Nov 23, 2005)

*its amazing*

whenever someone asks on here how to add a sub to the logic 7 system...

you get post anfter post from so called audiophiles claiming that Bose is correct music, neutral music whatever.

That is so far from correct.

Bose is pleasant sound that appeals to people that dont care.

it's like elevator music.

I have had a sub in every car ive ever owned. A good musical, accurate, sub ie alumapro for instance would set a new standard for anyone that took the time to integrate it.

Does anyone have experience in this area?

And please no more sermons on why bass isnt necessary in the $2800 logic 7 system upgrade.

Had i bought my car new, I'da never checked the bose box and I would take that $2800 and show what a system could actually sound like ....ie Focal, Audison, cleansweep and still keep the FHU and nav.

Get a clue people.

I understand after spending nearly $3000 you'd like to think that you have an awesome stereo....but you dont....

waht you have is a fully integrated factory stereo thats under warranty and simple to deal with and done by them. this can be an advantage to most but better? um not.


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## elmalloc (Dec 7, 2003)

I agree with your post. I have still yet to upgrade my audio. I will save that for next year, I've parked my vehicle for the winter. Elemental Designs will probably be my choice. I think 3 8s or 2 10s are going in my trunk (and they use a tight enclosure, so there will be a lot of free reom still, even in a convertible trunk).

ELmO


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## Orangefiv5 (Oct 27, 2005)

If you are looking for a little more punch in the music I would 100% suggest

www.bavariansoundwerks.com

I just put one 10" system in my 1991 325ic and it hammers.........sounds great and even when the top is down you can't compare to the sound quality compared to the top of the line up grade through BMW. Just a thought but I wouldn't waist my money on any upgrade through BMW. Just my opinion.


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