# I Gotta Have More Carbon; Baby



## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

2010 w/ 82k miles. Platinum extended warranty through 100k.

MPGs have dropped recently.
Last road trip, I was excited to get the SES so I could get the carbon cleaned out under warranty! Just my luck, the SES light extinguished on the way home and has not reappeared.

Code still shows (P0404, MAF Sensor), but no more light. (never called dealer since no light)

I really want the CBU cleaning done before my warranty expires, after which I will definitely delete EGR and possibly SCR, DPF, and add a catch can. Maybe H20/meth injection too.

I've been driving like a grandmother since my milage started decreasing. 

What else can I do to accelerate my carbon build up?

JW


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

82k miles...I would keep the emissions system intact if you can go that long. I had a similar situation and the dealer said to bring the car in anyways but I had already scheduled an appointment when my SES went out.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

I hadn't thought of that. Tell them the light is on, then tell them when I drop it off that it just went out.

Can they tell when the events were logged?
If they can, would they bother?

Would the warranty cover CBU cleaning if the light went out?

As of yesterday, my Garmin still showed the code. I (of course) did not reset it.

JW


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## ficklerx (Sep 16, 2013)

I had a series of 3 lights that cleared before service. MAF was replaced after the first. Carbon cleaning was done without any question after the third. The time between the second and third was short.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

That MAF code alone probably wont get you a cleaning based on what other people are saying. Take lots of short trips to accelerate it. When you wanted something to eat but forgot just that one peice, go ahead and make the short trip to get it


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Have patience grasshopper. All good things come to he who waits.

I'm at 74k, threw a few codes and MPG had dropped, but codes cleared and my MPG appears to be back in normal range. The carbon isn't going to go away by itself, so it should get worse until you will get the codes setting hard.

Continue to drive it like you stole it and enjoy the ride.:eeps:


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Don't forget, after the codes set you have to get the injectors replaced 5 times and then the DDE replaced before getting the carbon treatment


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Hoooper said:


> Don't forget, after the codes set you have to get the injectors replaced 5 times and then the DDE replaced before getting the carbon treatment


Maybe not anymore. With the new blasting tools and procedures, cleaning carbon is probably cheaper than replacing the injectors!


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Got the SES light again yesterday. Will set up an appointment. 

Still has the P0101 code (original code was P0101, not 404), but also has P21A8 code. (SCR tank something or another)

Is there any way the new code could be related to CBU, or are the two codes unrelated.

JW


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## jking1478 (Jun 25, 2013)

I had a similar situation with the SES light coming on and off. The dealership said to bring it in and they were able to look at the log of events. I can't remember the codes it did threw, but as you can guess, it was carbon build up. They had to replace the ERG, manifold and sent the heads to get cleaned. My car only had 30k miles when it happened. The dealership said all new parts will have a 2 year warranty. Oh, if it was not under warranty, it would have been around $7000 to fix.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Dealer called Fri, 6-27 and said SCR tank needs replacing. Other code(s) caused by suspected CBU. Will call back when they get a better diagnosis. 

I told them about the drop in milage and power and that I suspected CBU. Asked him to scope it to find out.

Haven't heard back yet. Doesn't it take a week or two for them to get the replacement tank?

Anyway, will report back with my findings.

JW


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## mefferso (Feb 26, 2014)

nuclearbeef said:


> Doesn't it take a week or two for them to get the replacement tank?
> 
> JW


Not for me last month. They replaced the tank in a couple days.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

We got six new injectors and a CBU cleaning at 80k miles under CPO. If the car is actually missing you get new injector(s). That is basically the worst case scenario if you are not covered under warranty. You can tell when the injectors start to clog by a bumpy idle and hesitation on acceleration, or by reading the codes if you have the equipment to do so. There are specific codes for the clogged injector(s) and I believe the policy is to replace them as a set if there is more than one failing and/or the car has greater than a certain number of miles, but that is a well-kept BMW secret.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

SA just sent me a text saying carbon blasting is in progress and the intake manifold is sent off for sonic cleaning. 

He mentioned reading something about people eliminating the swirl flaps and suggested that this might be the time to do that. 

Didn't the fix the swirl flap problem on the US model?
Any reason to eliminate my swirl flaps?


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

nuclearbeef said:


> SA just sent me a text saying carbon blasting is in progress and the intake manifold is sent off for sonic cleaning.
> 
> He mentioned reading something about people eliminating the swirl flaps and suggested that this might be the time to do that.
> 
> ...


IIRC Swirl Flaps are designed to promote good mixing of fuel during low speeds. The problem that was fixed had to do with them breaking off and getting ingested into the combustion chamber.

I've heard that most of the problem build up is at the valves behind these flaps.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Car is done. SA driving it home tonight to make sure all is OK.
Should pick it up tomorrow. Will report back.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Picked up car yesterday. 
BMW platinum warranty paid for carbon cleaning, new SCR tank and new radio. Warranty did not pay for new belt due to belt squeal.
Just when I was pulling onto my street, I got an SES light. P02d2. Injector 4. Stumbles at idle.

Back she goes.


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## Diesel Power (Oct 2, 2010)

I know an injector 3 fault is not uncommon after CBU cleaning and sometimes requires replacing the DDE to resolve the issue.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Six new injectors. They are join got (going to) drive it over the weekend before giving it back to me. 

All I need now is to have the DDE replaced under warranty and my plan will nearly be complete!


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Glad you have the extended warranty. I did not and glad I traded at 45K. 

Good grief! BMW needs to hire some diesel engineering experts from Audi.

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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Nadir Point said:


> We got six new injectors and a CBU cleaning at 80k miles under CPO. If the car is actually missing you get new injector(s). That is basically the worst case scenario if you are not covered under warranty. You can tell when the injectors start to clog by a bumpy idle and hesitation on acceleration, or by reading the codes if you have the equipment to do so. There are specific codes for the clogged injector(s) and I believe the policy is to replace them as a set if there is more than one failing and/or the car has greater than a certain number of miles, but that is a well-kept BMW secret.
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


Just curious, did you have any other issues/symptoms/SES before you hit the 80K mile issue? At this point we have 50K completely trouble free miles (not counting the 5 bent rims due to the crappy roads here in the NorthEast).


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

EGR recall and SCR tank replaced while under factory warranty.
Never had an SES light before this.
One road trip the car had a serious rough running engine. Definitely not firing on one of the cylinders. Started after fueling up and went away after fueling up again elsewhere. SES light did not illuminate during this time.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

KeithS said:


> Just curious, did you have any other issues/symptoms/SES before you hit the 80K mile issue?


Just the usual, DEF tank, recalls, etc. It lit the SES twice due to CBU, I believe. The first time Schomp said the air filter was clogged and it still seemed to be running OK, although fuel mileage was dropping. 2nd time a couple months later it was obviously limping on clogged injectors as well. During this time the oil exhibited a high fuel dilution rate of >4% due to the failing injectors. I did a partial change myself to hold it over and prevent excessive wear until it finally gave up the ghost.

Fuel mileage is back to normal and it runs like a raped ape again with new injectors and clean intake tracts.

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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Car threw another light while the tech had it this weekend. I mentioned that others whose troubles followed the same progression as mine finally stopped throwing codes after the DDE was replaced. 
SA said he had one that BMW ended up giving him injector calibration values that were different than those on the actual injectors and that got the SES to remain extinguished. 

Does anyone know if there is a service bulletin dealing with DDE replacement when injector codes keep getting thrown? (search turned up nothing)

What else could I show my SA?


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Changing injector values did not cure the problem. New DDE is on order. Will report back when I get another update.


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## Diesel Power (Oct 2, 2010)

Deja vu. Problem free since CBU and new DDE.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Diesel Power said:


> Deja vu. Problem free since CBU and new DDE.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


Glad to hear! How long problem free?


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## Diesel Power (Oct 2, 2010)

About 4-months have passed since CBU cleaning and new DDE, which is the longest trouble free period since the problem manifested in June 2013.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah it seems fixing the DDE solves a lot. Mine was a late build and hasn't needed any updates. Knock on wood w/46,000 miles on it now.


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## nuclearbeef (Dec 19, 2012)

Finally got the car back yesterday evening. First went in on June 26, so they had it one week shy of two months.

So far so good! They put 400 miles on it before giving it back to me and in my 30 or so miles I've driven since getting it back, no SES; no rough idle; and runs great. I'll check MPGs over the next few tanks and see if there is any improvement. 

Now that I have the CBU cleaned out, how long do I wait to modify? I'm thinking drive it as-is for 1k miles or so to ensure no more SES lights illuminate.
Then I need to block off EGR. I have the down pipe on hand to delete DPF, and have paid for the tune. 

Should I drive around with only the EGR deleted for the next 18k miles until extended warranty runs out? Or delete everything after my 1k mile test period.

I can get the tune with only EGR delete for now; then send the DDE back in when warranty runs out and they will code out the rest while I install down pipe.

Or, I can just block egr and live with the light and leave the DDE unmodified until warranty expires.


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