# Sagging H&R springs on M3



## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

6 months ago, I noticed that my M3 was slightly sagging towards the passenger side. A tape measure confirms that the passenger side is lower by 1/4" to 1/2", with the front being a little lower than the rear. 

It annoys me that the car sags although I doubt anyone else could detect it. With the car in for the bearing service, I complained about the suspension sag.

They tell me that the car has H&R springs installed, so there is nothing then can do except put in OEM springs... which I declined. This was a surprise for me, as I bought the car used.


QUESTION----

What could be causing these springs to sag? Is this a known issue with H&R?


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> 6 months ago, I noticed that my M3 was slightly sagging towards the passenger side. A tape measure confirms that the passenger side is lower by 1/4" to 1/2", with the front being a little lower than the rear.
> 
> It annoys me that the car sags although I doubt anyone else could detect it. With the car in for the bearing service, I complained about the suspension sag.
> 
> ...


One thing that you can check yourself is how deep the shocks are into the lower strut support. This "sagging" could not be related to the springs but to the way the struts were installed at the front. The struts are bolted to the top but pressed like a vise at the bottom... there is a possibility that one or both the struts were not all the way down in the lower support at the time of the installation, and after driving the car the struts are slowly getting to the correct depth in the supports.

Check it out... :thumbup:


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Is it possible what you're seeing is due to the car and not the springs? I believe they come that way from the factory slightly higher on the driver side. (we've noticed this on several cars already) Before my aftermarket suspension went in, we took measurements beforehand and driver side was higher by about the same amount you mention.

Could be that with aftermarket springs it's slightly more noticable. :dunno:


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

doeboy said:


> Is it possible what you're seeing is due to the car and not the springs? I believe they come that way from the factory slightly higher on the driver side. (we've noticed this on several cars already) Before my aftermarket suspension went in, we took measurements beforehand and driver side was higher by about the same amount you mention.
> 
> Could be that with aftermarket springs it's slightly more noticable. :dunno:


This is true, the M3 comes from the factory with the driver's side slightly higher than passenger side. With a driver in the car, it should be close to even.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

You guys are joking right??? "It's a feature, not a bug"!!! 

1/2" seems like a noticable variation, and my eagle eyes don't see it on other M3's.

I guess I'll have to get someone to measure the height with me in it. I wonder if there is a way to "fix it", as it annoys me?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> You guys are joking right??? "It's a feature, not a bug"!!!
> 
> 1/2" seems like a noticable variation, and my eagle eyes don't see it on other M3's.
> 
> I guess I'll have to get someone to measure the height with me in it. I wonder if there is a way to "fix it", as it annoys me?


1/2" seems a bit much... I think mine measured out to be 1/4" to 1/8" in difference.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

a) If you look at cars on the street, you wil not see it because most cars on the road have a driver in them. 

b) I agree, it is more likely that the springs are not properly seated if the problem is in the front. In the rear, BMW uses various thickness spring pads to adust ride height. Some cars need a thicker pad than others.

c) H&R springs are good quality and do not tend to sag, AFAIK. But contact them if you truely have a sagging spring after checking all the other possibilities. I would check the seating adn then get teh car on a 4 post lift and actually measure the spring heights under loaded conditions.

Also you can check yoursefl if there are H&R springs. First the ride height will be a good bit lower than stock cars. Second pull a wheel off and look at the springs, H&R springs are typically red (stock are black) an are stamped with H&R and the part number. I would check to make sure all 4 springs have the same part number (the basic number is the same frotn and rear, but they are marked F and R). And check that these are teh proper springs for the car, the H&R kit number is the same as the number on the springs.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Thanks for the responses.

I'll take it into my aftermarket shop to have them check out the situation. 

The car has always been very low on the passenger side. The front seem to be closer to the 1/2"-5/8" sag... as opposed to the rear which is 1/4"-3/8"... so perhaps it's a seating issue.

The existence of H&R springs explains why I've been noticing a degradation in the factory shocks at 35,000 miles. With no track use and 98% highway use, they are getting soggy already... no doubt due to the extra load created by aftermarket springs.

Perhaps I'll use this as an excuse for coilovers. Recommendations??


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Stock E46 M3 shocks, with stock springs lose 50% of their dampening in 10K miles of somewhat normal driving. This according to Jay Morris of Ground Control who tested the shocks off of their test car.

BMW speced a LOT of dampening, but then speced a cheaper shock that can't handle the high rates.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Just an update to complete this thread.

The sagging was caused by a misinstalled front shock. It was sitting 1/2" higher on the drivers side. The car looks mean now... nice and low with the H&R's. Unfortunately, the shocks are getting soggier all the time... so perhaps a coilover install is inevitable.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Or ust drop a set of Konis on it. Jay at Ground Control can set the shocks for your springs before he shipps. About $500 or $600 for the set (I forget which it was). They also have double adjustable Konis and Advance Design shocks.

TC Kline has double adjustable LKonis based on the shocks they run on their Z4 race cars.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> Just an update to complete this thread.
> 
> The sagging was caused by a misinstalled front shock. It was sitting 1/2" higher on the drivers side. The car looks mean now... nice and low with the H&R's. Unfortunately, the shocks are getting soggier all the time... so perhaps a coilover install is inevitable.


Damn I'm good!! :thumbup:


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Technic said:


> Damn I'm good!! :thumbup:


Damn... you were good... I just didn't understand what you were saying!  

Right on the money... THanks!


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> Or ust drop a set of Konis on it. Jay at Ground Control can set the shocks for your springs before he shipps. About $500 or $600 for the set (I forget which it was). They also have double adjustable Konis and Advance Design shocks.
> 
> TC Kline has double adjustable LKonis based on the shocks they run on their Z4 race cars.


Are Koni's the preferred shock over Bilstein? Because of the damping adjustment?


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> Damn... you were good... *I just didn't understand what you were saying!*
> 
> Right on the money... THanks!


I should have posted a picture...










_A picture is worth a thousand words..._ :thumbup:


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> Are Koni's the preferred shock over Bilstein? Because of the damping adjustment?


The last time I checked, Bilstein didn't make shocks for these cars. Only th ePSS9 setup, which the springs are too soft on.

I am running H&Rs with Konis on my LTW and H&Rs with Bilsteins on the Roadster. I like both, but the LTW rides better, and still handles great.

The Roadster is only a problem on long rides, like to /from HC. Anything less is fine as it is.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Technic said:


> I should have posted a picture...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The bottom end of that shock was sticking out too much. How it's possible for it to be mounted like that escapes me.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The TC Kline D/A Konis are lightyears beyond the yellow Koni S/A shocks.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

JPinTO said:


> The bottom end of that shock was sticking out too much. How it's possible for it to be mounted like that escapes me.


 I'm going to guess that they didn't get the alignment pin in the slot...


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