# Diesel Or Not???



## marcpotash (Apr 6, 2003)

I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


Not an issue at all. To climb those serious hills effortlessly like they're not there and have passing power while climbing those hills, you will WANT the diesel. DIESEL all the way! The better low end grunt due to the diesel's superior TORQUE characteristics compared to the gassers makes it pull like a locomotive on the hills. People buy Horsepower but fundamentally drive TORQUE when it comes right down to it. The diesel's better real world fuel economy compared to the gasser models comes as a bonus. I also like my BMW diesel's 600 mile tank range compared to the gasser version of the same car (same size tank).

I have absolutely no regrets about buying a diesel car and would buy another in a heartbeat if I could. I drive around 1k miles/week (read: I drive a LOT!) and I also LIKE to drive. Since 2002, I've only owned DIESEL cars and logged a combined total of more than 700k miles in them. I absolutely WILL NOT own another gasser ever again if I can help it. No more gassers! All future vehicle purchases of mine shall be DIESEL vehicles.

I tend to gravitate toward a "driver's" car....what a driving enthusiast would want for a car. However, a driver's car usually comes with an unacceptable fuel economy penalty and downsizing to an econobox (read: penalty box) car is also not an option with my logging around 1k miles/week. With diesel I don't have to downsize the car or downsize the performance to get the fuel economy I need. I love the rich blend of Economy, Longevity, Performance, TORQUE, and Efficiency you get with diesel. And while there are some gassers on the market that have the same or a slightly lower fuel cost per mile compared to my diesels, they aren't cars I want to drive and none of them offer the kick of a turbo. For example, the mileage a Toyota Prius hype-brid gets is laughable considering what a penalty box the car is to drive. OTOH, with diesel I get to have my cake and eat it too. :thumbup:

Good luck.


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## BobBNY (Sep 2, 2011)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


Regret buying a diesel - NO.
Reserve Power for hill/altitude climbing - YES.

There are a lot of reasons to buy or not buy a diesel. You need to rank what you want in a car. For me the "D" was IMO the best engine for this car. Smooth, powerful, economical and to me different. I bought mine for long haul driving out here in the West. I am very satisfied. The 4 cylinder is not as gutsy as the mule I have in my 535D. But I will probably go to a 3 series wagon next and the diesel will be my first choice.

BB


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

The main reason to buy diesel are:

1. Higher torque
2. increased MPGs over comparably power gasoline motor

If you like both, vote diesel

There are some downsides, but mostly they are just myths or urban legends of the past:

1. availability of diesel fuel (99% of the time, you're likely going to be driving within 30 miles of home and your home fuel station, I have never ever ever ever not find Diesel #2 at the pumps on highways or in urban areas)
2. diesel is not clean (present day diesels emissions equipment lowers NOx and carbon emissions vs comparably power gasoline engines thru the use of AdBlue and DPFs)
3. diesels are noisy (depends on the motor, the old M57 X5 and 335d is a chatty motor, some like it, others don't, it's a characteristic of the motor, current diesels are much more quieter)
4. Emissions equipment is an extra point of failure (your covered for 4-years 50k miles, and you can buy further warranties for additional 3-years 100k miles for $3000, also the F3x car you're buying is 2nd generation diesel emissions equipment, us M57 owners were the lab rats for BMW)
5. haters gonna hate (well what are you going to do?)


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

BMW 320i vs 328i vs 335i vs 328d (all xdrive):

320i 180HP, 200ftlbs, 141 g/km carbon output, 23/35/27 mpgs (no wagon offered)
328i 242HP, 258ftlbs, 157 g/km carbon output, 22/33/26 mpgs
335i 300hp, 295ftlbs, 178 g/km carbon output, 20/28/23 mpgs (no wagon offered)

*328d 180HP, 280ftlbs, 125 g/km carbon output, 31/43/35 mpgs*

what else is there to debate? Anyway you cut it, any model you consider be it non-xdrive or sedan, the diesel is more/comparably powerful, cleaner, and better on the MPGs.

just for shi!ts and giggles one more to throw out there, you have to go up to a 5000lb, 7-seater, 5000lb towing capacity SUV to get a comparably "dirtier" less fuel efficient diesel to match a gasoline car:
X5 diesel 250hp, 413ftlbs, 177 g/km carbon output, 23/31/26 mpgs


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

A word of "caution" to prospective DIESEL owners: Very soon after owning and driving your first modern turbodiesel car, it won't be long before you realize that owning and driving anything that runs on gasoline no longer makes sense. :thumbup:


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Flying Ace said:


> 5. haters gonna hate (well what are you going to do?)


LOL, so true. What *Flying Ace* said. I've had Toyota Prius hype-brid owners give me horrified looks at gas stations when I've been filling my diesels at the diesel pump.

Diesel suffers from an image problem in the USA and a lack of available modern diesel cars to choose from to help dispel those myths and misconceptions. Old school diesel hatred is still alive and well. If only those diesel haters would simply DRIVE these cars!

In my 13 years of diesel car ownership I've found that for every diesel hater I've encountered, I've encountered many more people that are genuinely interested and willing to look past the old notion that anything diesel must be "bad". So instead of trying to convert a diesel hater, I've had more success in educating the world around them instead and opened many other people's eyes to diesel's advantages.

Good luck.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


I had my 335d in CO a few weeks ago. Effortless cruising at any speed I cared to travel at. Now, the 328d has less tq/hp, but I've driven my wife's 328xd over the passes here in WA state (which are just as steep as anything in CO), and running on cruise control at 65-75 it doesn't downshift from 8th - plenty of torque there to maintain speed.

Diesel availability is simply not an issue, especially in WY/CO where there's a lot of truck traffic for the oil/gas industry. Even way out north of Rock Springs it's everywhere. US 40 from Winter Park to the Utah border, every station had a pump as far as I could tell. But I drove clear from somewhere in WY to Winter Park to Heber City, UT without re-fueling, so what the heck did I need to search for...


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> Diesel availability is simply not an issue, especially in WY/CO where there's a lot of truck traffic for the oil/gas industry. Even way out north of Rock Springs it's everywhere. US 40 from Winter Park to the Utah border, every station had a pump as far as I could tell. But I drove clear from somewhere in WY to Winter Park to Heber City, UT without re-fueling, so what the heck did I need to search for...


What *floydarogers* said.

Diesel fuel is hard to find? That's news to me after 13 years of driving diesel cars and logging a combined total of more than 700k miles in them. :thumbup:

A few months aqo, Lexus did a tongue in cheek ad for the Lexus version of the Prius where it bashed diesel fuel availability. The ad is posted in the PriusChat forums. My favorite line in the ad was "Waste half a tank looking for diesel". LOL, yeah right! With my BMW diesels, I would have to drive 300 miles more to go through half a tank. With my VW TDIs (diesel) years ago, it was around 400 miles to go through half a tank. And 300 miles is about the point where the average gasoline car would go completely through a FULL tank and need to stop and fill up.

Finding diesel fuel is not an issue at all, contrary to popular belief. If anything, you have MORE options regarding where and when to fuel up due to the much greater range on a tank due to the way better fuel mileage. And yet the myth of hard to find fuel continues.


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

floydarogers said:


> I had my 335d in CO a few weeks ago. Effortless cruising at any speed I cared to travel at. Now, the 328d has less tq/hp, but I've driven my wife's 328xd over the passes here in WA state (which are just as steep as anything in CO), and running on cruise control at 65-75 it doesn't downshift from 8th - plenty of torque there to maintain speed.
> 
> Diesel availability is simply not an issue, especially in WY/CO where there's a lot of truck traffic for the oil/gas industry. Even way out north of Rock Springs it's everywhere. US 40 from Winter Park to the Utah border, every station had a pump as far as I could tell. But I drove clear from somewhere in WY to Winter Park to Heber City, UT without re-fueling, so what the heck did I need to search for...


yeah good point. I've also driven across the country before and noticed that fuel availability especially on the highways are not an concern as just about every station had #2 ULSD.

I think the only time you MAY have issues are in urban/suburban areas, but in practice, when you're in urban/suburban areas, you're likely driving close to home, i.e. you have a "go-to" station where you know you can get cheap diesel.


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

n1das said:


> Diesel fuel is hard to find? That's news to me after 13 years of driving diesel cars and logging a combined total of more than 700k miles in them.
> 
> A few months aqo, Lexus did a tongue in cheek ad for the Lexus version of the Prius where it bashed diesel fuel availability. The ad is posted in the PriusChat forums. My favorite line in the ad was "Waste half a tank looking for diesel". LOL, yeah right! With my BMW diesels, I would have to drive 300 miles more to go through half a tank. With my VW TDIs (diesel) years ago, it was around 400 miles to go through half a tank. And 300 miles is about the point where the average gasoline car would go completely through a FULL tank and need to stop and fill up.
> 
> Finding diesel fuel is not an issue at all, contrary to popular belief. If anything, you have MORE options regarding where and when to fuel up due to the much greater range on a tank due to the way better fuel mileage. And yet the myth of hard to find fuel continues.


ha! classic urban legend and myths compounded by competitors, here's the recent Lexus ad that they feel so threatened they have to put down diesel:

BTW Lexus CT200h....THE WORST CAR EVER - small, impractical, low HP, horrible MPGs for a hybrid compared to a I4 gasser of similar curb weight. WTF are you buying? A Toyota Matrix with the Lexus infotainment and LFA front nose styling. BTW diesel in CA is currently cheaper than premium by 40 cents.










http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/diesel-cars-bad-toyotas-lexus-division-seems-think-so-166609/


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

This one is my favorite article of a real repeatable road test that shows the diesels are just better cars overall than hybrids. Wait until someone comes out with a wait-for-it....Diesel Hybrid, the silence from Priuschat would be deafening.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...uel-efficient-car-in-america-is-a-luxury-car/


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

I almost bought the 2011 335d but because it was only RWD and a little small for me I wanted something bigger i'm 6'3ft.tall and the F15 35d was out of my price range.

I wanted to get the 2015 X3 28d so bad but when I saw only 180hp/280tq I said to myself it was not worth the extra $10-15k so I settled with a 2014 X3 xDrive28i (4cyl) 240hp/260tq. 
Do I regret it ? Yes
Do I want to drive more spirited and enjoy better MPG? Yes 
There have been reports of the 28d being driven very aggressively and still achieving 25mpg. 

I am stuck now this 4cyl (really slow btw after driving a 35i) with horrible MPG and only able to achieve good MPG when driving like a grandma. I bet Diesel would be even better in the city than my gasser is. It is rated at 21 city 28 hwy, and I'm achieving 20mpg combined (step on it hard, drops to 19 right away). 

Please BMW bring the 35d in the F15 into the F25. I'll be looking into CPO X3 28d or 535d/F15 35d this summer and end of the year and see if I can afford it.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

A few reasons to "go diesel" (data source: BMW)








under 4000rpm? you want the D. 








don't have a chipped N54/55? you probably want the D.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


The best thing you can do is to drive both vehicles you're considering in that environment. I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised by the performance of the 'd.

Then look at how many miles you drive a year and calculate how much fuel will cost you with each car.

The best thing about driving a diesel is that the vast majority of the power is in a very usable rpm range. You don't need to wind it up to enjoy that power.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

d geek said:


> The best thing you can do is to drive both vehicles you're considering in that environment. I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised by the performance of the 'd.
> 
> Then look at how many miles you drive a year and calculate how much fuel will cost you with each car.
> 
> *The best thing about driving a diesel is that the vast majority of the power is in a very usable rpm range. You don't need to wind it up to enjoy that power.*


This exactly. FWIW I typically run my 550 out to 4k RPM to keep myself out of trouble. by comparison, a 535d would be FASTER up to that point.


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

d geek said:


> The best thing you can do is to drive both vehicles you're considering in that environment. I'll bet you'll be pleasantly surprised by the performance of the 'd.


Best advice.

When I was looking at the F31 platform, I only had two choices. Gasoline 4cyl engine, or Diesel 4cyl engine. Coming from the N54 platform, torque was a concern.

Drove both, diesel won me over by a significant margin. The low end grunt was satisfying, not like my Z4 but not too far from it. Yet it could achieve 60%+ better fuel economy.

The 28i felt nice when you mashed the pedal. It simply wasn't fun to drive unless you were solely doing that. That's not what I wanted, I needed a car with enough power down low. Because thats the majority of driving we do, right?

You might be underwhelmed in the higher rpms (compared to a gasoline engine), but it makes up for it in the lower rpms. Effortless acceleration is the best way to describe it.


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

Flying Ace said:


> This one is my favorite article of a real repeatable road test that shows the diesels are just better cars overall than hybrids. Wait until someone comes out with a wait-for-it....Diesel Hybrid, the silence from Priuschat would be deafening.
> 
> http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...uel-efficient-car-in-america-is-a-luxury-car/


There are some diesel hybrid buses.


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## 335D Alpha Papp (Nov 25, 2014)

If you get the idrive option, there is a map search function that can locate the nearest fuel station that carries diesel. I use it all the time as I travel across the northeast.


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## Geotrash (Dec 22, 2013)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


Colorado guy here. I take my 328d skiing all the time through the Eisenhower Tunnel or over Loveland Pass. The turbo keeps the intake air under pressure, negating the effects of altitude on the engine's performance. Plenty of passing power up high.

Cheers,
Dave


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## Jay Arras (Nov 22, 2002)

Playing devil's advocate here... torque and power aside, diesel fuel prices are significantly higher than premium. Here in the Northeast, I have seen the cost of diesel as much as 75 cents higher than 93 octane. Yes, you get better fuel economy with diesel, but I'm not sure you still come out ahead with cost of ownership compared to gas. Care to comment?


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

I looking on all post for Diesel and all become very bad
Peoples with no knowledge of physics talking and talking and not know what about.
Generation in very corrupted system where every one have rights and no body know why and for what?
Tiffs manipulators creating statistics not worth to live or to own diesel car
To have a child is not economical and very complicated.
If we can stop eating how richer we can be?
Means stupid over stupid
No other country on this world with so complicated peoples with poor or not existing knowledge about cars and technology.
Those 4 cyl diesels or gas engines producing more HP & Torque per 1 liter of displacement
from those old junkies big locomotive engines and burning 100 gal per mile.
Land of miracles & propaganda = better start talking about bad food & unhealthy lifestyle.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

Jay Arras said:


> Playing devil's advocate here... torque and power aside, diesel fuel prices are significantly higher than premium. Here in the Northeast, I have seen the cost of diesel as much as 75 cents higher than 93 octane. Yes, you get better fuel economy with diesel, but I'm not sure you still come out ahead with cost of ownership compared to gas. Care to comment?


Where I'm at, I see diesel prices same as premium sometimes 5-10 cents less than premium. There could be days it could be other way around but for the most part I always see diesel same price or a bit less. I also pay more for Shell or Valero than going with Costco/BP/Exxon because the cheaper cost gas for some reasons seems to burn faster in my car thus achieving less performance & less mpg. 
Regardless Diesel being more, it will give better MPG and you will end up paying less than a gasser. 
Fueleconomy.gov has given me a few comparisons and it makes a lot of sense.


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## MotoWPK (Oct 5, 2012)

335D Alpha Papp said:


> If you get the idrive option, there is a map search function that can locate the nearest fuel station that carries diesel. I use it all the time as I travel across the northeast.


Alpha Papp - How do you do this? One of the things I find lacking in my '14 X5 35d is that the fueling station POI search doesn't have a filter for stations with diesel. At least I haven't found it yet.


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## marcpotash (Apr 6, 2003)

Geotrash said:


> Colorado guy here. I take my 328d skiing all the time through the Eisenhower Tunnel or over Loveland Pass. The turbo keeps the intake air under pressure, negating the effects of altitude on the engine's performance. Plenty of passing power up high.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave


Thanks for all the replies, particularly Dave! Diesel prices are a bit higher than premium in Colorado so the payback in extra purchase cost of the diesel is more than offset by fuel cost. I drove a diesel in Europe and liked it, particularly the long range. Looks like diesel for me.


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## 335D Alpha Papp (Nov 25, 2014)

MotoWPK said:


> Alpha Papp - How do you do this? One of the things I find lacking in my '14 X5 35d is that the fueling station POI search doesn't have a filter for stations with diesel. At least I haven't found it yet.


I think you have to scroll over to the right one more time. Gas is the default but you should be able to choose between gas and diesel.

I also saved this search as #5 on the programmable buttons so all I have to do is push it and the list shows up. No more digging thru the map search options.

I have #6 saved as the email/text reader so when I can read it thru idrive without opening my phone.


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## EMPTYKIM (Sep 24, 2013)

I have no regret buying a diesel. The 335d has been great and everything that I expected and more. Of course after reading this forum, CBU always seems to be in the back of my head.



Jay Arras said:


> Playing devil's advocate here... torque and power aside, diesel fuel prices are significantly higher than premium. Here in the Northeast, I have seen the cost of diesel as much as 75 cents higher than 93 octane. Yes, you get better fuel economy with diesel, but I'm not sure you still come out ahead with cost of ownership compared to gas. Care to comment?


I assume this is very region specific. I regularly fill up diesel for quite a bit less than gasoline. Current prices for the two stations I fill up (my last fill up was $2.69):

Shell
Reg: 3.07
Mid: 3.17
Prem: 3.27
*Diesel: 2.85*

Chevron
Reg: 3.19
Mid: 3.27
Prem: 3.35
*Diesel: 2.85*


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but they are not cheaper to drive than gassers. Any savings in increased fuel efficiency will be negated by higher maintenance costs. Unless you are willing to disable the egr valve, you will end up with carbon build up and subsequent cleaning costs, not to mention the risks of having a more complicated emissions system to deal with.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

sirbikes said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but they are not cheaper to drive than gassers. Any savings in increased fuel efficiency will be negated by higher maintenance costs. Unless you are willing to disable the egr valve, you will end up with carbon build up and subsequent cleaning costs, not to mention the risks of having a more complicated emissions system to deal with.


I don't think there are any reports of carbon build up on the 4 cyl diesel. I also have not heard of them in the 535d or many of the X5 35d. So it seems that the E90 335d is the only design with a chronic problem. Even then it appears to be hit or miss, so there may be several variables at play.

I don't believe there is a measurable cost difference in terms of maintenance between gas & diesel, if the CBU doesn't plague models outside the E90 335d.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Who cares about the price?
Pleasure dominate feelings and needs.
Buy Hybrid & you getting all of worst
I stay with Diesel for ever * I want to feel when I drive
Fuel cost is speculative things and tiffs rippers alway going to rip us all the time on electricity or diesel fuel 
What average human know about fuels?
Nothing only every one believe and see somehow to the sky's more gasoline is sold every year and cost of production become lower.
Is not true more Diesel fuel sold every year and tiffs rippers can tight strong raising prices up how much want.
Is cheaper to manufacture and so what no body can stop those tiffs because peoples not have ideas and repeating nonsense words what told them to do.
Military - industry - trucking - electro stations - heating oil - cars - you named is about 4 or 5 times more produced and Diesel is more expensive from Gas.
Pure profits to every one start from Government to simple man who deliver this fuel.
Plus peoples talks unknown business become big promotion for tiffs.


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## Seppo (May 12, 2014)

Performance should not be an issue in your choice, the diesel has good performance for your intended use. I have owned Volkswagen and BMW diesels, and they are great choices for me, driving as many miles as I do. However, I can't recommend anyone who has low annual mileage to choose a diesel over a good gasoline alternative powerplant. If I drove fewer than 16,000 miles a year I would be driving something else right now, not a diesel. The added cost and the question marks over the emissions control systems (warranty claims on the DEF system already, here) are offset by much better highway mileage, but only for those who drive a lot. At 25-30k annually, I can justify the additional wonkiness of owning and operating a diesel, but it's less attractive for those who do not pile on the miles.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

d geek said:


> I don't think there are any reports of carbon build up on the 4 cyl diesel. I also have not heard of them in the 535d or many of the X5 35d. So it seems that the E90 335d is the only design with a chronic problem. Even then it appears to be hit or miss, so there may be several variables at play.
> 
> I don't believe there is a measurable cost difference in terms of maintenance between gas & diesel, if the CBU doesn't plague models outside the E90 335d.


don't forget the N54/N55 had a chronic problem with carbon buildup as well. carbon buildup is much more related to direct injection than fuel type.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

your typical gasser driver said:


> But diesel is so expensive....


LOL, I get that all the time from gasser drivers who can't see past the price per gallon at the pump.



sirbikes said:


> Don't get me wrong, I love diesels, but they are not cheaper to drive than gassers. Any savings in increased fuel efficiency will be negated by higher maintenance costs. Unless you are willing to disable the egr valve, you will end up with carbon build up and subsequent cleaning costs, not to mention the risks of having a more complicated emissions system to deal with.


What higher maintenance costs? :dunno: I DIY for routine maintenance and have a good indie line up and ready for major stuff. I'm not afraid of BMW's diesels and are aware of potential issues. So far mine have been bulletproof reliable.

As for fuel savings and operating costs per mile compared to the gassers, the higher diesel fuel costs have negated some of the fuel economy advantages and made it close to a wash. It doesn't matter to me because among other reasons I choose to drive diesels and own only diesels because I LIKE them. Gassers are not even a consideration at all in my case.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

u3b3rg33k said:


> don't forget the N54/N55 had a chronic problem with carbon buildup as well. carbon buildup is much more related to direct injection than fuel type.


Diesel fuel in USA very dirty and low cetan number in Canada we have much better diesel fuel.
Needs to use Good qualities synthetic engine oils and diesel fuel additives
I use Amsoil & additives in my Diesel - 10 times less coming regeneration cycle 
Very clean burning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNO-oUHmKXU


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

n1das said:


> LOL, I get that all the time from gasser drivers who can't see past the price per gallon at the pump.


price of diesel? heck, have you seen the price of premium?? It's way more expensive than regular.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

u3b3rg33k said:


> don't forget the N54/N55 had a chronic problem with carbon buildup as well. carbon buildup is much more related to direct injection than fuel type.


Agreed that direct injection exacerbates the issue. But diesels cars have been direct injection for at least the last decade. What makes it worse in the diesel is the amount of soot generated in the compression ignition process. EGR metering certainly seems to make a big difference though (compare 335d to X5 35d).


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

d geek said:


> I don't think there are any reports of carbon build up on the 4 cyl diesel. I also have not heard of them in the 535d or many of the X5 35d. So it seems that the E90 335d is the only design with a chronic problem. Even then it appears to be hit or miss, so there may be several variables at play.
> 
> I don't believe there is a measurable cost difference in terms of maintenance between gas & diesel, if the CBU doesn't plague models outside the E90 335d.


d_geek, I wished it were only the 335D but i recall a recent thread either here or on the "other" diesel forum about a guy with X5 that got CBU at 20,000 miles. The bmw 4 cylinder hadn't been on the road long enough yet to say it doesn't get CBU. I sure hope this is the case but they need to be out there for running for 3 or 4 years before we presume their good. My opinion and and agree we all can take different levels of info to be convinced. Same story for 535D, it hasn't been out long enough to say we're past the mess. Of all of the ones to look closely at, the 535D will be closest cousin to 335D from a low load, hi press EGR standpoint.

My barometer for calling a design okay and doesn't have CBU tendency would be 40,000 to 50,000 miles.

All of that aside, I'm hoping my changes will put me in place where CBU won't get me. I had a whole lot of fun driving in Rocky Mountains particularly climbing.


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## Jay Arras (Nov 22, 2002)

EMPTYKIM said:


> I assume this is very region specific. I regularly fill up diesel for quite a bit less than gasoline. Current prices for the two stations I fill up (my last fill up was $2.69):
> 
> Shell
> Reg: 3.07
> ...


You are right about this being very region-specific. Here's what I come up with in Connecticut:

Citgo
Reg: 2.70
Mid: 2.82
Prem: 3.06
*Diesel: 3.52*

Shell
Reg: 2.75
Mid: 2.99
Prem: 3.19
*Diesel: 3.35*

Some of it has to do with taxes, I'm sure.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Use Amsoil Fuel additives and engine oil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNO-oUHmKXU


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

Jay Arras said:


> You are right about this being very region-specific. Here's what I come up with in Connecticut:
> 
> Citgo
> Reg: 2.70
> ...


back on 3/16 I extracted the data from EIA survey:

summary is, it all depends on the region you live in, and applicable state law, taxes, and supplies issues. CA is state where consistently, diesel is cheaper than premium depending on the season, and therefore, us diesel owners get a net cost savings. BTW, compared to my V8 M3, and when diesel was 10 cents more expensive than premium back in Feb, if I drove my X5d daily to work, I would still save $700 a year in fuel costs, now with diesel cheaper, everything on top of that is just gravy. My X5d is about 40% more fuel efficient than my V8 M3. I recognize that most people do comparisons within the model range instead, i.e. 328i vs 328d.

3/15 weekly average premium versus diesel prices from EIA:

Location Premium ($) Diesel ($)
U.S. 2.824 2.917 
East Coast 2.81 3.082 
New England 2.787 3.27 
Central Atlantic 2.855 3.311 
Lower Atlantic 2.777 2.87 
Midwest 2.629 2.82 
Gulf Coast 2.614 2.763 
Rocky Mountain 2.599 2.812 
West Coast 3.41 3.064 
WC less California 2.987 2.894 
California 3.606 3.202

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_gnd_dcus_nus_w.htm


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## Jay Arras (Nov 22, 2002)

Interesting stats! It appears diesel is only cheaper than premium on the left coast though.


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

Jay Arras said:


> Interesting stats! It appears diesel is only cheaper than premium on the left coast though.


for me, even if I lived in CT and had to deal with diesel being 30 cents more expensive, I would still save money on fuel costs over my current car, b/c my X5d is simply more fuel efficient.

From a buyer's perspective (X5 buyer would choose between a 50i, 35i or 35d), an X5d would still save on fuel costs in this pricing situation over a 35i or 50i car because the fuel efficiency of the diesel outweighs the price per gallon even at the current 30 cent price spread.

50i: 17 combined mpgs
35i: 21 combined mpgs
35d: 27 combined mpgs

Costs of fuel per mile driven at each respective fuel costs:

50i: $0.18 per mile: @3.09 per gallon premium at Citgo ($3.09 per gallon / 17 miles driven on that gallon)
35i: $0.15 per mile: @$3.09 per gallon premium at Citgo ($3.09 per gallon / 21 miles driven on that gallon)
35d: $0.13 per mile: @$3.35 per gallon diesel at Shell ($3.35 per gallon / 27 miles driven on that gallon)


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

Jay Arras said:


> Interesting stats! It appears diesel is only cheaper than premium on the left coast though.


It varies a bit. Here in the midwest, diesel is typically only significantly more than premium in the winter months (and by significant, I think it was maybe 30-50 cents more per gallon).

Now it's either the same price as premium or, such as this week, slightly under (by 15 cents per gallon).

We have B10 diesel though during the warmer months, not sure how that affects prices. So far it appears to be helping.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Vehicle as X5 35d & ML350 Blutec best of all
Need compared to V8 Gas engines only
Those 6 cyl anemic Gas engines not same and can consumed much more fuel under load.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


For somebody that drives only short trips around town and never gets on the highway, I normally would advise against diesel ownership. Those drivers have plenty of gasser options to choose from.

OTOH, diesel is very well suited to your particular use case. Climbing the mountains while haulin' ar$e on the highway is where the diesel is in its element. The greater torque and efficiency of diesel wins here compared to gasoline. :thumbup:

You've come to the right forum for information and are asking the right questions! :thumbup:

Good luck.


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## EMPTYKIM (Sep 24, 2013)

n1das said:


> *For somebody that drives only short trips around town and never gets on the highway, I normally would advise against diesel ownership.* Those drivers have plenty of gasser options to choose from.
> 
> OTOH, diesel is very well suited to your particular use case. Climbing the mountains while haulin' ar$e on the highway is where the diesel is in its element. The greater torque and efficiency of diesel wins here compared to gasoline. :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Why is that? I've heard this before but never really understood why. Sometimes I drive lots of highway miles, sometimes I go through whole tanks without getting on the highway. Mileage is still better than it would be with a gasser...


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Diesels are best for short or long drives
When owner is smart and using Amsoil & fuel additives not need see dealers
Look on statistics all guys who believe in dealers are in problems
BMW or Mercedes service need stupid customers who pay big $
Implanting to peoples heads you drive short distance and you need pay more money for service
How stupid & no logic.
European peoples drive 10 mil a month & not getting problems with DPF
If happens DPF cost in range 500.00$
I done on diesels over 2 mil Km
When I reading boys stories and dealers friends become end of the world how corrupted is the world of tiffs


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

EMPTYKIM said:


> Why is that? I've heard this before but never really understood why. Sometimes I drive lots of highway miles, sometimes I go through whole tanks without getting on the highway. Mileage is still better than it would be with a gasser...


I think the rationale of not choosing diesel is that the DPF will not have sufficient temperature to burn off soot and other emissions equipment wouldn't have a chance to work to prevent carbon build up.

Other side of the coin is, diesels are much more efficient at idle than a gasser

actually for a city situation and commute under 20 miles, a plug in electric would be the ideal car.


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## EMPTYKIM (Sep 24, 2013)

Flying Ace said:


> I think the rationale of not choosing diesel is that the DPF will not have sufficient temperature to burn off soot and other emissions equipment wouldn't have a chance to work to prevent carbon build up.
> 
> Other side of the coin is, diesels are much more efficient at idle than a gasser
> 
> actually for a city situation and commute under 20 miles, a plug in electric would be the ideal car.


Interesting. Makes sense. I do notice that sometimes my fan kicks on after a short drive. I assume that is when regen is happening or trying to happen in cases where my drives are short.


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## sbalea (Mar 12, 2014)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


I drove my 328d up in the Swiss Alps. I guarantee you will have more fun driving the diesel up in Colorado than you would with a gasser. Gobs of low end torque makes easy work of steep uphills and the turbo negates the effects of high altitude.

The D is more expensive than an equivalent 328i, and will prolly cost more on maintenance on the long run, but saves on fuel. Financially, if you drive a lot, fuel savings makes it worth it. Between my wife and I, we put 17k miles so far in about 9 months of ownership.

No regrets whatsoever.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

marcpotash said:


> I'll be ordering a 328 wagon when the 2016 come out but still cannot decide to get diesel or not. I drive in the Colorado mountains and want passing power going uphill. Altitudes I regularly drive can be up to 11,000'. Is this an issue? Does anyone regret buying a diesel? Why?


My 328d wagon goes up Berthoud pass just like it goes down Berthoud pass. Barely notices the small hill climb. No worries, you will love it.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

Jay Arras said:


> Playing devil's advocate here... torque and power aside, diesel fuel prices are significantly higher than premium. Here in the Northeast, I have seen the cost of diesel as much as 75 cents higher than 93 octane. Yes, you get better fuel economy with diesel, but I'm not sure you still come out ahead with cost of ownership compared to gas. Care to comment?


I have one picture for you. Diesel is by far much much more variable. This is about 2 months ago now. I really dont remember what it has been lately. I just don't pay much attention. But through the summer these types of differences in price are not uncommon in my neck of the woods


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## Jay Arras (Nov 22, 2002)

Thanks for the pic, though like I stated earlier, that seems to be only a West coast phenomenon. Everywhere else shows diesel costing more than premium.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

End of the world all diesel owners needs change cars to gas or Toyota Hybrids.
Diesel is like a prime stake qualities good 
Those gas and hybrids are those cheap hamburgers no value and junk in


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

BB_cuda said:


> All of that aside, I'm hoping my changes will put me in place where CBU won't get me. I had a whole lot of fun driving in Rocky Mountains particularly climbing.


I think we all agree except for the CBU issue the 335D is a very desirable car, maybe the most desirable of all the diesels out there. We simply need to get our head around the fact that CBU cleaning is part of routine maintenance (at least on the 335D). Now that the cost is in the $1500 range, and I read one person indicating $1200, to me while not great, is acceptable. What is the cost of a tuneup on a BMW gasoline engine?

In regards to the cost of diesel, yes the West coast certainly has different prices than the rest of the country. In NJ, diesel usually runs a little more than premium, dropping to a little less than premium in the summer.

And yes if your only taking short trips, a diesel is not for you. For example my wife who can often take short trips is currently stuck initiating a DPF regen that is unable to complete (fan keeps running when car is shut off). I told her to take the other car (gas) and I will take the car on a longer(already planned) trip today to get the cycle completed.


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

Jay Arras said:


> Thanks for the pic, though like I stated earlier, that seems to be only a West coast phenomenon. Everywhere else shows diesel costing more than premium.


Yeah, but I showed you even at current east cost prices, operating a diesel over a gasser equivalent car is still cheaper


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Flying Ace said:


> Yeah, but I showed you even at current east cost prices, operating a diesel over a gasser equivalent car is still cheaper


This is true if you are only looking at fuel costs. If you factor in that the diesel car cost more to begin with, plus about 2+ cents a mile for CBU cleaning for the 335D ($1200 over 60K miles), the economics of cost of ownership over a gasser is not there anymore.

For the other models that hopefully no longer have CBU, still a lot of miles need to be driven to overcome the initial higher purchase price. The diesel cost/benefit model works much better in Europe where the fuel taxes favor diesel.


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## MotoWPK (Oct 5, 2012)

When comparing economics of gas vs diesel, don't forget to factor in the higher resale value of the latter. Taking a 2013 X5 with 30,000 miles as an example, Edmunds.com shows a value of the 35d about $6,000 higher than the 35i.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I'm afraid the opposite may be true for the 335D after Consumer Reports put the word out on us. I haven't check KBB or Edmunds though.


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## hlc1213 (Mar 19, 2015)

Jay Arras said:


> Thanks for the pic, though like I stated earlier, that seems to be only a West coast phenomenon. Everywhere else shows diesel costing more than premium.


I live in NJ/NYC and diesel is cheaper than premium at several stations in my area.

A local Shell near my workplace currently has:

R: $2.26
P: $2.79
P+: $2.89
D: $2.69

So much for that theory!


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

KeithS said:


> This is true if you are only looking at fuel costs. If you factor in that the diesel car cost more to begin with, plus about 2+ cents a mile for CBU cleaning for the 335D ($1200 over 60K miles), the economics of cost of ownership over a gasser is not there anymore.
> 
> For the other models that hopefully no longer have CBU, still a lot of miles need to be driven to overcome the initial higher purchase price. The diesel cost/benefit model works much better in Europe where the fuel taxes favor diesel.


sure...but I purchased preowned, where the spread between a gasser and diesel equivalent in the same model line is much less or in my case for what I paid.... near zero. 

I also drive the X5d which hopefully will not have the CBU issue. Also, I guess the question is, should one assume there will be CBU in the new F30 328d?


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

It's a diesel with egr -- it's not if, it's when.



Flying Ace said:


> sure...but I purchased preowned, where the spread between a gasser and diesel equivalent in the same model line is much less or in my case for what I paid.... near zero.
> 
> I also drive the X5d which hopefully will not have the CBU issue. Also, I guess the question is, should one assume there will be CBU in the new F30 328d?


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Forced induction will overcome altitude regardless of fuel type. 


Reasons to buy the diesel: Torque. It really makes for a relaxed driving experience. There is almost never a shortage of diesel whenever a hurricane hits the Gulf Coast. 

A couple of negatives with the diesel: Active emissions system (DEF, sensors, mixers, control modules). Today's diesels are no more reliable or cheaper to repair than gasoline. More expensive to acquire than a comparable gasser so even with diesel already being under priced based on its energy content the break even point is almost always over 60k miles. Maintenance for the diesel is slightly more involved.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

F32Fleet said:


> Forced induction will overcome altitude regardless of fuel type.
> 
> Reasons to buy the diesel: Torque. It really makes for a relaxed driving experience. There is almost never a shortage of diesel whenever a hurricane hits the Gulf Coast.
> 
> A couple of negatives with the diesel: Active emissions system (DEF, sensors, mixers, control modules). Today's diesels are no more reliable or cheaper to repair than gasoline. More expensive to acquire than a comparable gasser so even with diesel already being under priced based on its energy content the break even point is almost always over 60k miles. Maintenance for the diesel is slightly more involved.


When Diesel became ultra low sulfur several years back the price went up to cover the cost of removing it. If you read about Tier 3 fuels in the USA for Jan 2017 and the proposal holds, gasoline will also become ultra low sulfur. The additional cost would most likely propel gasoline to be more expensive than diesel again.

Under the final Tier 3 program, federal gasoline will not contain more than 10 parts per
million (ppm) of sulfur on an annual average basis by January 1, 2017. EPA is also finalizing
standards that maintain the current 80 ppm refinery gate and 95 ppm downstream
cap. The Tier 3 gasoline sulfur standards are similar to levels already being achieved in
California, Europe, Japan, South Korea, and several other countries.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

KeithS said:


> When Diesel became ultra low sulfur several years back the price went up to cover the cost of removing it. If you read about Tier 3 fuels in the USA for Jan 2017 and the proposal holds, gasoline will also become ultra low sulfur. The additional cost would most likely propel gasoline to be more expensive than diesel again.
> 
> Under the final Tier 3 program, federal gasoline will not contain more than 10 parts per
> million (ppm) of sulfur on an annual average basis by January 1, 2017. EPA is also finalizing
> ...


Perhaps, but if diesel was priced solely on energy content it would be about 33% higher than gasoline. Of course it doesn't work out that way in reality because of other influences in the market (demand/supply).

In any case we're talking about today and not 2-3 yrs down the road.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

F32Fleet said:


> Perhaps, but if diesel was priced solely on energy content it would be about 33% higher than gasoline.


And it's a good thing it's not priced that way. Otherwise, except for having the experience of driving a torque monster, there would only be disadvantages with diesel (especially financially).


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Start talking why your government is corrupted on first place.
Price of Diesel fuel have nothing to do sulfur level EGR or DPF
Gasoline is same dirty as diesel and smell much worst from diesel = government cant tax
gasoline because simple commuters traveling to school or work.
Cant suck more money from gas - auto industry very fast go out the business
European dominate in diesel sell as logic and economical move
Gasoline is taxed high as polluter 
Emission control & ripoff
Diesel fuel production is 20 times bigger from gasoline = for that reason USA Government
make Diesel dirty and more dirty all the time to have reason placing bigger taxes on.
Stop repeating stupidity of tiffs
Start talking and become demand stop of all kind of ripoff from the Government side.
Stop stupid politics and placing nose where is no business for tiffs
The most strict emission standard only in USA when rest of the world not interested and not going to implement those naive technique of ripoff.
Why USA everywhere try dominate and rob other lands and resources?
Irak & nuclear y weapons = grab only Oil and nothing more
Stop talking unrealistic philosophy you promoting USA tiffs and terrible future for your selves and your kids.


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

ULSD has about 11% more energy per unit volume than E0 regular gasoline - 129,488 BTU/gallon ULSD; 116,090 BTU/gallon E0 gasoline (LHV).

The difference is about 15% for E10 (112,194 BTU/gallon (LHV)).


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Although it's only $.06, diesel does have a higher federal fuel tax than gasoline.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

wxmanCCM said:


> ULDS has about 11% more energy per unit volume than E0 regular gasoline - 129,488 BTU/gallon ULSD; 116,090 BTU/gallon E0 gasoline (LHV).
> 
> The difference is about 15% for E10 (112,194 BTU/gallon (LHV)).


You need to know cost of production is lower
You know how doing fuels?
Cooking boiling to high temperature - top of vapors Benzine - gasoline - lower one Diesel and below diesel greases 
To produce 1 liter of gas needs more oil for that reason cost of diesel is cheap & gas more expensive.
BTU is different thing - look on grease & BTU for grease very high = grease is very cheap
Tar BTU very high
Dont bring fantasy to life * when tiffs see peoples absorbing those games going to push price on fuels higher 
Be smarter * Politicians murdering millions of liefs get money profits 
What have place in Irak


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

BB_cuda said:


> I'm afraid the opposite may be true for the 335D after Consumer Reports put the word out on us. I haven't check KBB or Edmunds though.


haha, did you just complete your survey?

I filled one out for my x5d and M3


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Diesel is more expensive because there is a wold market for ULSD and the refiners have been exporting more diesel since the ULSD standard came into effect. Gasoline is cheaper because there is a relative glut of it. 

In a way, gasoline is a "waste product" of diesel refining - a smaller per unit profit etc. There is usually more cost in the custom blending of regional summer emission gasoline also. 

Europe exports gasoline to the US. Prices reflect supply and demand. The tax on diesel isn't much more than that on gasoline, the last time I looked. Maybe $.05- $.10/gallon more depending on the state.

The Northeast, bless its Liberal heart, I believe, discriminates against diesel and prices it too high. Besides, they don't even consider the middle part of the country more than a "fly-over" anyway. Diesel rules in farm country.

PL


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Pierre Louis said:


> Diesel is more expensive because there is a wold market for ULSD and the refiners have been exporting more diesel since the ULSD standard came into effect. Gasoline is cheaper because there is a relative glut of it.
> 
> In a way, gasoline is a "waste product" of diesel refining - a smaller per unit profit etc. There is usually more cost in the custom blending of regional summer emission gasoline also.
> 
> ...


I have question to you?
Where you get your diploma?
Do you purchased on Ebay?


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

*maintenance costs*

Wanted to buy diesel(328d), but getting scared about maintenance.(After included scheduled maintenance)
How much for an oil change, fuel filter...?
I keep my cars 8-10 years, is diesel still a good option??

A real dilemma for me.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

guddcalo said:


> Wanted to buy diesel(328d), but getting scared about maintenance.(After included scheduled maintenance)
> How much for an oil change, fuel filter...?
> I keep my cars 8-10 years, is diesel still a good option??
> 
> A real dilemma for me.


Regular (scheduled) maintenance is not a problem. Oil change is $80-$125 depending upon how/who. Fuel filter is $200, every third oil change. Those changes are no worse (other than the oil being synthetic @$10/quart) than any diesel engine in the past. Better, really, since oil changes are around 10K or so rather than every 3K miles WITHOUT FAIL as in the past.

It's the possibility of major maintenance, like problems with the SCR/DEF system or Carbon Build Up (that's a $1200 item) that you should be worried about. That being said, pretty much everyone with a 335d, X5d, 535d or 328d love the cars, and are ok with most of the costs. They're fabulous cars.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

floydarogers said:


> Regular (scheduled) maintenance is not a problem. Oil change is $80-$125 depending upon how/who. Fuel filter is $200, every third oil change. Those changes are no worse (other than the oil being synthetic @$10/quart) than any diesel engine in the past. Better, really, since oil changes are around 10K or so rather than every 3K miles WITHOUT FAIL as in the past.
> 
> It's the possibility of major maintenance, like problems with the SCR/DEF system or Carbon Build Up (that's a $1200 item) that you should be worried about. That being said, pretty much everyone with a 335d, X5d, 535d or 328d love the cars, and are ok with most of the costs. They're fabulous cars.


Plus if covered under the first 4yr of BMW warranty or if buying used get CPO for a little longer coverage should be fine. 
Going to trade my X3 28i for a X3 28d it looks  tempted to test-drive a 535D but I like to be driving tall, the X5 35d looks awesome just too big for my needs.


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

I've never owned a diesel, so i,m trying to get all the facts together.
They also warned me that diesels were not meant to be driven for short runs (ex. shopping, running errands..). Is this what causes DEF build up?
Is it also true that you need to let diesel warm up a little before driving off.

I live in Montreal, 0°F is normal in winter.
Commute to work is 1 hour morning rush hour and 1 hour afternoon rush hour. This is why I'm considering diesel.

Appreciate any help.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

guddcalo said:


> I've never owned a diesel, so i,m trying to get all the facts together.
> They also warned me that diesels were not meant to be driven for short runs (ex. shopping, running errands..). Is this what causes DEF build up?
> Is it also true that you need to let diesel warm up a little before driving off.
> 
> ...


Stop & Go and urban driving is THOUGHT to contribute to Carbon Build Up.

No extended warmup is needed. Several people have 335d in Montreal/Toronto with no problems. The heater has an electric element for fast warmth. Also, be sure to get the heated seats - front and rear - in the winter package.

Diesels don't do particularly well in slow commute traffic, as they don't go into 8th until nearly 50 mph (80 kph). The 8 speed and auto stop start helps, but a hybrid might be a better choice.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Europe is small - peoples drive 3000.00 mil a year or less and no problem with DPF.
Have to understand why DPF getting plugged?
Dirty exhaust plugging DPF & when come on regeneration cant clean
Engine Oil who use Amsoil and Amsoil fuel additive not getting those mysterious plug of DPF. 
DPF Filter have life is not made to last for ever.
Same as human have some time to live.
When we eating properly we can live longer out heart can last for very long time.
Not getting plunged prematurely.


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## sbalea (Mar 12, 2014)

guddcalo said:


> I've never owned a diesel, so i,m trying to get all the facts together.
> They also warned me that diesels were not meant to be driven for short runs (ex. shopping, running errands..). Is this what causes DEF build up?
> Is it also true that you need to let diesel warm up a little before driving off.
> 
> ...


You don't need to wait to warm up, and you can certainly drive diesels for short runs, but what I've noticed is that the engine warms up much slower than a regular gasser engine, especially in cold weather. With a cold engine, your mileage will suffer. So if you drive a little, let the engine cool down then drive some more, you won't get stellar mileage.

About your commute: is it stop and go, with red lights (typical large city driving)? If so, you will probably be better served by a hybrid, even better if it is a plug-in to keep the batteries warm and charged. If it is long stretches of highway with occasional traffic related slow down, then yes, a diesel would be great.


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

My commute is more highway, but not always doing 60mp/h (1 problem area where it always jams up).
In traffic is there carbon build up?
Is the carbon buildup dissipated once you hit higway speeds? (This would be my situation)


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

I was told by a VW manager, that if you do short runs on the weekend, but the commute to work is 1 hour, I should never have any build up problems. Was he accurate?


----------



## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

Well if your commute to work is 1 hour that is already a good long drive for any car. 
I also read that if you don't drive long commutes at least 1-2x a week, that its good whenever you do drive the car you drive it aggressively at least 1-2x a week


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## Frediesel (Apr 28, 2012)

floydarogers said:


> Regular (scheduled) maintenance is not a problem. Oil change is $80-$125 depending upon how/who. Fuel filter is $200, every third oil change.


Is $200 what the dealership charges for the fuel filter change? If DIY is an option- the fuel filter is about $25 for the Mahle brand or $61 for the BMW OEM brand. The BavTech cable ($180) can be used to prime the fuel filter. Future fuel filter changes would be about $25 or $61 DIY.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Frediesel said:


> Is $200 what the dealership charges for the fuel filter change? If DIY is an option- the fuel filter is about $25 for the Mahle brand or $61 for the BMW OEM brand. The BavTech cable ($180) can be used to prime the fuel filter. Future fuel filter changes would be about $25 or $61 DIY.


$200 is what my indy charged me earlier this month. Realoem.com says the OEM is almost $50: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=PN73&mospid=51054&btnr=13_1115&hg=13&fg=10


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Look on European peoples who is driving even less from you and not have all kind of problems what you are getting.
Never worm up your engine idling 2 or 3 hours.
Use best Engine Oils as Amsoil & Fuel Additives from Amsoil.
Start your engine and go.
Gas or Diesel engine idling no good and taking very long time get heat.
When we drive become very fast hot.
Every one of you have Remote Starter and to the window beautiful start on cold morning
and same time finishing making love after shower - coffee & go
There is no Golden Rules - cheapest engine oils to save money and idling for hours
where is the logic?
Remote start is the most important and on other things we can complain.
Buy electric car - complain never end same as for Diesels. 
Every body complain is a way of living * how we can start fresh morning with out the complains?
Just impossible to think even.
Corrupted business is implanting to our brains missing informations
Peoples as normal think never thinking
Oh yes we complaining all the time & protecting all main tiffs.
Ha Ha Ha
Who is more perfect ?
Person who complaining all the time or person who is saying nothing?


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

Is there any other costs that diesel has and gas doesn't?
Fuel injectors, glow plugs, ....
Thinking longterm.

I guess diesel has no timing belt?


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> $200 is what my indy charged me earlier this month. Realoem.com says the OEM is almost $50: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=PN73&mospid=51054&btnr=13_1115&hg=13&fg=10


The cost of the filter is under $30 for OEM (MANN filter) unless you go to the dealer to get the same filter at a higher price.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

guddcalo said:


> Is there any other costs that diesel has and gas doesn't?
> Fuel injectors, glow plugs, ....
> Thinking longterm.
> 
> I guess diesel has no timing belt?


Every gas & Diesel engine have own personal things
How other member say depend where you buy parts and who can serve you or do work on your car.
Lots of the parts are not made by BMW MERCEDES VW AUDI * world wide production
Buy them from MERCEDES BMW AUDI the most idiotic thing * peoples buy or getting service from them because not know other options 
Everything for them become very expensive.
Guys who can read and search on Internet - Google Ebay and so on with time learning all secrets and become very practical.
General population is very lazy with big mouth and big complains.
Not want work and want everything for free.
For that reason big tiffs have hook on them and using them with out the limits.
One is getting poor and other one getting rich.
All is very speculative and where is the truth?
How owner is bright and how understand mechanical things.
When we hold and very strong Golden Rules no too much or not to little just as need.
Best Engine Oils
1) Amsoil
2) Red Line
3) German Oil - lots in USA - one of them super oil can be purchased from Mercedes Benz
I try add little more about German products are or looks like a German cars & build with brain 
4) Mobil1
Fuel additives - Amsoil best.
**************************************
I know BMW Mercedes Audi VW saying dont use any additives
Go to parts department BMW MERCEDES AUDI VW & buy from them fuel additives


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I bought a fuel filter for $24.95 but it's Mahle.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

BB_cuda said:


> I bought a fuel filter for $24.95 but it's Mahle.


Very good filter & on the future you can get others makes too like a FRAM
Get to www.rockauto.com get to the model you own and look there on Oil Filters Fuel Filters
Fram I believe is better from German Filters


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm sold! 
Just started looking for a 535D and X3 28d used will be hard to find a X5 35d for under 60k and just put my X3 28 up for sale  
It will be hard since I want M-Sport, DHP, Premium Audio, i'm more flexible with the colors but these 3 options are the must haves for me. 
Anyone suggest going for xDrive than RWD? I know typical North weather calls for xDrive (more advantage) but does everyone in the south doesn't see snow have AWD as well?


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

If you don't have snow and icy roads, forget xdrive. Extra fuel consumption and reduced performance, all for no reason.
I'm in Montreal and RWD in winter is a nightmare.


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## guddcalo (Apr 23, 2015)

Leaning more towards gas.
Spoke to salesman. 328i has no timing belt(has chain)
Spark plugs are coiled spark plugs BMW says to change them after 200, 000km
Oil changes will be cheaper and can be done anywhere besides the dealer.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

Get the 328d u won't regret it, the 328 is horrible in gas no matter what dealer says. 
While my X3 28i M-Sport was in service for a week, they gave me a 2015 328 xdrive base model and even when driving at 60-65 i couldn't achieve any better numbers than in my X3 also it felt horrible since it was a base model and no Adaptive Suspension that im use to


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Diesel best


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