# Pull-ahead discontinued?



## WilliCO (Oct 16, 2007)

Eventually we'll need a dealer sponsor to come along and clarify - but I believe that when the BMWFS pull-ahead program is in effect, the lease-end event occurs between the customer and BMWFS, with the dealer not immediately financially involved. Once that car comes back to BMWFS' inventory, they dispose of it in some way - most conveniently by selling it to the dealer on whose lot it sits, but maybe via some internal auction for BMW dealers or something.

When the actual pull-ahead program is not available - like now - any "early lease end" deal that a dealer offers involves the dealer financially and BMWFS not at all, apart from their note being paid. This is nothing more than a trade-in, where the dealer will look at the lease balance like any other outstanding note on a trade, the market value and demand for the car, and the book value. And I imagine the lease balance payoff might be negotiable between the dealer and BMWFS, too. 

Maybe there's a deal there for a few of us, but buyer beware for sure.


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## the-pup (Jul 12, 2012)

I recently did this type of "dealer sponsored" pull ahead and found it advantageous vs replacing the 4 tires, 2 rims and repairing the other dents/dings that needed to be fixed. In addition, the dealer used a tax credit to offset some of the loss in equity (I'm in Texas, so pay taxes on the full purchase price.)

I was satisfied, but had already secured a very good deal and had alot of trust in my CA, so the above advice for buyers to beware remains.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Arciga18 said:


> I thought the used car manager always got involved anyway.


Why would the used car manager *always* get involved? What if he has absolutely no interest in the car at any price?

The customer is turning in the car to BMW Financial Services at a BMW dealership. That dealer is just providing a place for the customer to drop off the car at the termination of the lease. The car belongs to BMWFS. If the dealer is interested in keeping it, he buys it from BMWFS for an agreed upon price that is not more than the residual amount stated on the lease but is often considerably less, depending on real wholesale market conditions. However, the dealer is under no obligation to keep the car if he isn't interested in it.



> Now the issue with the lease, bmw waives 6 payments but there is a payoff (residual). Let's say the figure is $32K and the used car manager says the car is only worth $29K. The dealership has the option to buy the car, but is not obligated. The customer has to dish out the $3K or roll it into the next lease.


Why would the customer owe $3,000 to BMWFS if it's one of their special offers? I think you're thinking of what would happen if the customer walks into the dealership and he has, let's say, 15 payments left but he has decided he really doesn't want to wait any longer to get out of the lease because he has other plans. Maybe he wants to move into a brand new G12 7-series? That's when the negotiations begin between the customer and the dealership just as they would with any customer coming in with a trade-in that is upside down.



> Now I have no experience doing this, but this is what has been explained to me by multiple dealers including a 'fest sponsor.


I think you're thinking about something different. With a lease, the car always belongs to BMWFS from the day you first drive it off the lot. In effect, you're just renting the car from them. They're the lessor/lienholder/legal owner of the car and you're just the lessee/registered lessee of the car. At the termination of the lease the customer has the option to purchase the car for the stated residual value or a mutually agreed upon price. If the customer purchases the car, the dealer is buying it from BMWFS and then selling it to the customer. It goes on a used car report of sale with the dealer as the seller and the customer as the purchaser.

In the case of a finance contract, the customer is the buyer of the car but not the legal owner of the car. The customer is the registered owner of the car but the lender is the lienholder/legal owner of the car until after the loan has been paid off and the lienholder releases the lien. At that point the customer becomes the legal owner of the car.

If you want to get out of a finance contract early, you call the lender to get the payoff. If the manufacturer wants to offer some sort of special offer to entice you to trade in your car before you're finished making the payments, that's something different.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

Ninong said:


> The customer is turning in the car to BMW Financial Services at a BMW dealership. That dealer is just providing a place for the customer to drop off the car at the termination of the lease. The car belongs to BMWFS. If the dealer is interested in keeping it, he buys it from BMWFS for an agreed upon price that is not more than the residual amount stated on the lease but is often considerably less, depending on real wholesale market conditions. However, the dealer is under no obligation to keep the car if he isn't interested in it.


My understanding was that for the Pull Ahead programs the dealer doesn't even have to let the customer take advantage. A customer could come in and say, "I want to do the Pull Ahead" and the dealer could simply say no. However, if the dealer agrees to do it, then the dealer HAS to buy the car from BMWFS. To make that palatable, I thought that BMWFS offered the dealer more attractive pricing on Pull Ahead vehicles as compared to a standard lease-end dealer BMWFS purchase.


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## Arciga18 (Mar 3, 2012)

Ninong said:


> Why would the used car manager *always* get involved? What if he has absolutely no interest in the car at any price?
> 
> The customer is turning in the car to BMW Financial Services at a BMW dealership. That dealer is just providing a place for the customer to drop off the car at the termination of the lease. The car belongs to BMWFS. If the dealer is interested in keeping it, he buys it from BMWFS for an agreed upon price that is not more than the residual amount stated on the lease but is often considerably less, depending on real wholesale market conditions. However, the dealer is under no obligation to keep the car if he isn't interested in it.
> 
> ...


Fair Comments. That is why I added the disclaimer that I live in Illinois and have an Owner's Choice Contract (due to taxes in Illinois and the city of Chicago). Traditionally, this program was only offered in Illinois and Texas, but I think it was expanded to California for i3 cars

The tax law changed in Illinois on January 2015 but that is a whole different story.


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## Arciga18 (Mar 3, 2012)

bimmerbuff said:


> My understanding was that for the Pull Ahead programs the dealer doesn't even have to let the customer take advantage. A customer could come in and say, "I want to do the Pull Ahead" and the dealer could simply say no. However, if the dealer agrees to do it, then the dealer HAS to buy the car from BMWFS. To make that palatable, I thought that BMWFS offered the dealer more attractive pricing on Pull Ahead vehicles as compared to a standard lease-end dealer BMWFS purchase.


This is inline with my understanding.

My question for the Fest Sponsors would be:

I have an Owner's Choice contract that matures in April 2016, if BMW offers a 6 month pull ahead in October (6 months out), who will eat any negative equity. Do I really get to move into a new car in October w/o any drama?

I'm 10K under miles and the car is in good shape. However, the residual value is $32K and I was offered $27K last week.

I ask this question because Owners Choice is not the same as a lease.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Arciga18 said:


> Fair Comments. That is why I added the disclaimer that I live in Illinois and have an Owner's Choice Contract (due to taxes in Illinois and the city of Chicago). Traditionally, this program was only offered in Illinois and Texas, but I think it was expanded to California for i3 cars
> 
> The tax law changed in Illinois on January 2015 but that is a whole different story.


Yes, as of Jan. 1, 2015, Illinois no longer charges sales/use tax upfront on a lease. They charge it on the amount of the monthly payment like most states. That way lease customers in Illinois are no longer screwed like lease customers in Texas.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

bimmerbuff said:


> My understanding was that for the Pull Ahead programs the dealer doesn't even have to let the customer take advantage. A customer could come in and say, "I want to do the Pull Ahead" and the dealer could simply say no. However, if the dealer agrees to do it, then the dealer HAS to buy the car from BMWFS. To make that palatable, I thought that BMWFS offered the dealer more attractive pricing on Pull Ahead vehicles as compared to a standard lease-end dealer BMWFS purchase.


Whenever you see any program advertised by any manufacturer as at "participating" dealerships, that means its optional on the part of the dealership because their "participation" involves them absorbing some of the cost.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

Ninong said:


> Yes, as of Jan. 1, 2015, Illinois no longer charges sales/use tax upfront on a lease. They charge it on the amount of the monthly payment like most states. That way lease customers in Illinois are no longer screwed like lease customers in Texas.


In NY we pay sales tax on the payments (not the full value of the car) but we have to pay all of it at lease inception, either in cash or by capitalizing that cost. Illinois was worse, Texas still is.


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## rocketman48 (Jul 14, 2012)

bimmerbuff said:


> In NY we pay sales tax on the payments (not the full value of the car) but we have to pay all of it at lease inception, either in cash or by capitalizing that cost. Illinois was worse, Texas still is.


Maryland also screws you by making you pay tax on the full sales price up front.


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## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2014)

Here is the quick answer to the discretionary pull ahead...1) BMW will waive 3 payments 2) the dealer is required to buy the car. 

Example: 9 payments left at $500. BMW waived 3, so someone (the dealer) is picking up 6 payments at $500. Take that $3,000 and add it to the dealer payoff that BMW offers the dealer. NOW, the dealer has to look at the car and see if they want it. 2013 328i coupe, low miles, great condition...ok, I'll pay what BMW is asking for it because when I book it out, numbers work.....OR, car is trashed and not even close to the value that BMW has for the car, so we can't make a deal. (Unless Client pays a little more). 

If you have a relationship with your local CA, get in contact and have an open and frank conversation. If you really want to get out of your current car, he may not be able to give you all the money on the new car and may show it to you on the trade as a favor to get you out early. A hook up. A fist bump. A THANK YOU. 

This post may open up a huge box of worms. I am not speaking for all dealers. If they don't want to do it, it's up to them. Don't take it personally. I was just talking to a Client about his current car that he was trying to give me and I was like, "duuuuuuuude." He laughed


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## djsaad1 (Sep 3, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Here is the quick answer to the discretionary pull ahead...1) BMW will waive 3 payments 2) the dealer is required to buy the car.
> 
> Example: 9 payments left at $500. BMW waived 3, so someone (the dealer) is picking up 6 payments at $500. Take that $3,000 and add it to the dealer payoff that BMW offers the dealer. NOW, the dealer has to look at the car and see if they want it. 2013 328i coupe, low miles, great condition...ok, I'll pay what BMW is asking for it because when I book it out, numbers work.....OR, car is trashed and not even close to the value that BMW has for the car, so we can't make a deal. (Unless Client pays a little more).
> 
> ...


Why couldn't BMW make it easy and just offer a 3 month pull ahead?


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## xi2d (Oct 25, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Here is the quick answer to the discretionary pull ahead...1) BMW will waive 3 payments 2) the dealer is required to buy the car.


This was how the Pull Ahead Program worked back in 2012 towards the end of the year. #2 above pretty much made it a trade-in transaction which discouraged long-distance deals. I tried working with Jon S back then but ended up pulling ahead locally due to distance. IIRC, it was a 3 month P-AP in play.

Fortunately, due to the change in the program, Jon S helped get us into a new X5 end of May... five months early.:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2014)

^^^costs money. (To question about why not a simple 3 month pull ahead)


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Here is the quick answer to the discretionary pull ahead...1) BMW will waive 3 payments 2) the dealer is required to buy the car.


So in the "ordinary" Pull-Ahead the dealer is never required to buy the car?


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## djsaad1 (Sep 3, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> ^^^costs money. (To question about why not a simple 3 month pull ahead)


But they are paying the 3 months either way. I guess since it's dealer discretion, it's isn't going to happen as much as a normal 3 month pull ahead.


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## AksNasZasNas (May 30, 2013)

djsaad1 said:


> But they are paying the 3 months either way. I guess since it's dealer discretion, it's isn't going to happen as much as a normal 3 month pull ahead.


They (bmwfs) only pay three months on a car that is definitely being taken off their hands in this discretionary scenario. A regular three month pull ahead would result in a high number of under water cars being pulled ahead, waiver of three payments, and a glut of cars needing new homes at auctions.

The discretionary pull ahead makes a lot of business sense. Rewards lessees for keeping cars in good shape. Rewards dealers with profit on the new car and potential profit on the pulled ahead car. And, bmwfs gets an immediate sale on the pulled ahead car so it's off its books.


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

In that case .... pull ahead cars better be front line ready or it has no chance or getting picked up at high volume dealer.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

I confused:

http://www.prestigebmw.com/Pull-Ahead-Program


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## ChrisF01 (Aug 21, 2012)

> *Pull Ahead payment waivers are not eligible toward purchase of M models, Alpina or BMWi models. Offer valid only for qualified customers who turn in their vehicle with a BMW Financial Services NA, LLC lease contract between 24 and 60 months. *All Model Year 2011, 2012 and 2013 BMW 3-Series Sedans are eligible*, excluding M Series, Alpina and BMWis. Coupes and Convertibles are excluded. Eligible contract end dates between January 1, 2016 and March 31, 2016. Subject to credit approval. Not all customers will qualify. Offer is non-transferable. BMW Financial Services will waive up to *six (6)* payments or the remaining payments, whichever is less, on your current lease or OwnersChoice contract, provided you lease or finance a new or Certified Pre-Owned BMW vehicle through BMW Financial Services. *Offer ends September 30, 2015*.
> 
> Prestige BMW
> 985 Route 17 South
> Ramsey, NJ 07446


Just the 3er's


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

it's not a dealer favorable program now. We have to buy the car and keep it ... I had this happen twice today on two 328i sedans and the leases were up in Feb., meaning if the pull ahead payoff" amount is $29k for example.. yes the payments are waived then we have to buy it for that amount. so we would have to CPO car and then sell it for $33k or so...!! NO WAY THAT'S HAPPENING.. the only way if can make sense is if we buy car for $21k then add CPO and profit on top of that and try and sell for $25k as a CPO. But that then means client is $8k upside down... a true pull ahead means they waive payments and we have option to send car back to BMW or keep it.. but the buyout is much lower (close to residual) on a car like that it would be low $20's probably


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

[email protected] BMW said:


> a true pull ahead means they waive payments and we have option to send car back to BMW or keep it.. but the buyout is much lower (close to residual) on a car like that it would be low $20's probably


That is exactly what i took advantage of to get my F80. My lease matured in 1/2016 so got exactly 6 months of payments paid and did my ED on 7/7. I wont be eligible next time since I got an M model but glad I was able to get it done this year.



ChrisF01 said:


> Just the 3er's


I did an F10.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

[email protected] BMW said:


> it's not a dealer favorable program now. We have to buy the car and keep it ... I had this happen twice today on two 328i sedans and the leases were up in Feb., meaning if the pull ahead payoff" amount is $29k for example.. yes the payments are waived then we have to buy it for that amount. so we would have to CPO car and then sell it for $33k or so...!! NO WAY THAT'S HAPPENING.. the only way if can make sense is if we buy car for $21k then add CPO and profit on top of that and try and sell for $25k as a CPO. But that then means client is $8k upside down... a true pull ahead means they waive payments and we have option to send car back to BMW or keep it.. but the buyout is much lower (close to residual) on a car like that it would be low $20's probably


Hopefully BMW rethinks this. Pull ahead is one of the things keeping me in the brand. Sort of like being an RFA instead of a UFA. If I have to wait to the end and don't get to turn in early, saving some payments and mileage, I will definitely see what MB and LR have to offer.


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

pony_trekker said:


> Hopefully BMW rethinks this. Pull ahead is one of the things keeping me in the brand. Sort of like being an RFA instead of a UFA. If I have to wait to the end and don't get to turn in early, saving some payments and mileage, I will definitely see what MB and LR have to offer.


I am actually surprised it's still running. They usually only do it in the beginning of the year.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

I don't understand why any manufacturer would want to do a 6-month pull-ahead. That makes no sense to me, especially when you take into consideration the fact that they probably set extremely generous residuals in the first place. I could understand maybe offering a 3-month pull-ahead beginning in either November or December if you're in a close race with Mercedes for first place in annual US sales but otherwise what's the point? 

Anyway, three months sounds reasonable but all they're really doing is pulling sales from future months. Do it at the end of the year if you must; maybe do it in the first couple of months of the year because that's when all your super-duper November and/or December deals are off the table.


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

Ninong said:


> I don't understand why any manufacturer would want to do a 6-month pull-ahead.
> 
> Anyway, three months sounds reasonable but all they're really doing is pulling sales from future months. Do it at the end of the year if you must; maybe do it in the first couple of months of the year because that's when all your super-duper November and/or December deals are off the table.


I believe the idea is to pull those sales from the end of the year into earlier in the year to try and avoid the race all together.

Holidays are always busy since they offer great incentives, so by offering it for 6 months ending in June those people that lease on Nov and Dec take cars at the end of the model manufacturing year (April may June). Basically you move a portion of your leases to help get rid of the inventory.

In principal you offer it 3 years in a row (life of a lease) and you are able to shift a portion of your year end sales into the middle of the year.


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## jblackburn (Feb 9, 2002)

I can see a few reasons BMW would do a 6-month pull ahead.

1. Move highly discounted November and December sales to May and June. 
2. Increase the number of sales per customer. If they can get every repeat customer to go from replacing a car every 3 years to 2.5 years that is a significant number of cars. 
3. They are getting a return that is "newer" than expected. Selling a 2013 with 2.5 years on the clock is easier with only 2015 MY cars on the lot than when it is 3 years old with 2016 MY cars setting next to it.


I recently took advantage of the pull ahead and it was likely advantageous to everyone involved. I turned a 2013 X3 that was due in November. The dealer had it posted for sale $3k over my lease buyout price (about $5k over the residual) and it was gone in under 2 weeks. I got a 535i that has more room for carseats.


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## asawadude (Apr 5, 2004)

BMW is doing a 3 month pull ahead effective October 1, 2015. 

BMWFS retains ownership of the lease returns; they are not obligated to buy the lease returns from BMWFS as in the prior discretionary 6 month pull forward plan that ran from July through September 2015, so this is a win-win situation for the dealers and customers.

I just returned my 2012 328i coupe with 4 payments remaining and replaced it with a CPO 2014 X3 xDrive35i. My dealer absorbed the 4th payment as part of my deal, so YMMV. It worked well for me. I drove out of the dealership with what I thought was a very good deal.

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## saleen556 (Sep 14, 2013)

asawadude said:


> BMW is doing a 3 month pull ahead effective October 1, 2015.
> 
> BMWFS retains ownership of the lease returns; they are not obligated to buy the lease returns from BMWFS as in the prior discretionary 6 month pull forward plan that ran from July through September 2015, so this is a win-win situation for the dealers and customers.
> 
> ...


 In this plan would I benefit from turning in my 13 328 early for the M3? Lease is up in August 16. If I were to get the M3 in February would I still be eligible for a couple months of payments? Then pay the rest due?


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## gekisai29 (Jan 13, 2007)

just received a 5 month waiver of lease payments & 4150 off msrp from a dealer in nj for my Z4 for delivery of any in stock model by end of the month. was advised by phone of a necessary inspection to see how many months would be waived. sounds like a dealer program as described above & not a true waiver program. 
will probably check it out but i am pretty sure it won't be anything great.


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## AksNasZasNas (May 30, 2013)

The program appears to be broader than posted on here so far: http://www.prestigebmw.com/Pull-Ahead-Program


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

Looks like you can't get an M model car with this pull ahead. The original 6month pull ahead you could get anything, then they started tweaking it.


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## saleen556 (Sep 14, 2013)

Looks like you're correct. Kind of sucks but will be worth paying the 5 months off to get the M early.


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## gekisai29 (Jan 13, 2007)

AksNasZasNas said:


> The program appears to be broader than posted on here so far: http://www.prestigebmw.com/Pull-Ahead-Program


Until you call as I did and start asking questions


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## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

AksNasZasNas said:


> The program appears to be broader than posted on here so far: http://www.prestigebmw.com/Pull-Ahead-Program


i think thats a dealer enhancement, AFAIK the bmwfs program is only 3 payments, i suspect the dealer is "eating" the other three or making it conditional. and when i say eating i mean rolling it into the deal


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## AksNasZasNas (May 30, 2013)

gekisai29 said:


> Until you call as I did and start asking questions


Which dealer? Feel free to PM. Thanks! Fwiw, the link reflects the cars eligible for the pull ahead and by process of elimination one can determine which cars are not eligible (i.e. X5, etc), which detail has not been discussed in any great detail.


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## asawadude (Apr 5, 2004)

AksNasZasNas said:


> The program appears to be broader than posted on here so far: http://www.prestigebmw.com/Pull-Ahead-Program


I went through this with my dealer. If BMWFS waived 6 of your payments, the dealer has to buy out your lease return at whatever residual value is in effect at the time of termination. Add in the cost of CPO, the dealer's out of pocket cost far exceeds the fair market value of the lease return unless your turning in a car that has a strong market value. I was turning in a 2012 328i M Sport in excellent condition, but was worth $4000 less than the adjusted payoff amount which comes out of the dealer's pocket. Unless you're turning in something close to being a collectible, there is no dealer who is going to work this 6 month waiver plan.

The 3 payment waiver plan has BMWFS retaining ownership of your lease return. The dealer incurs no non-compensatible costs related to your lease return.

What you're looking at is nothing more than an enticement to come to the dealership. It only works if you're returning a leased car that has a value far exceeding current payoff.

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## gekisai29 (Jan 13, 2007)

I agree. Will probably drop by to see value but doubt it will be higher residual value in lease.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

asawadude said:


> I went through this with my dealer. If BMWFS waived 6 of your payments, the dealer has to buy out your lease return at whatever residual value is in effect at the time of termination. Add in the cost of CPO, the dealer's out of pocket cost far exceeds the fair market value of the lease return unless your turning in a car that has a strong market value. I was turning in a 2012 328i M Sport in excellent condition, but was worth $4000 less than the adjusted payoff amount which comes out of the dealer's pocket. Unless you're turning in something close to being a collectible, there is no dealer who is going to work this 6 month waiver plan.
> 
> The 3 payment waiver plan has BMWFS retaining ownership of your lease return. The dealer incurs no non-compensatible costs related to your lease return.
> 
> *What you're looking at is nothing more than an enticement to come to the dealership*. It only works if you're returning a leased car that has a value far exceeding current payoff.


This is a very thorough explanation. The only thing I would add is that sometimes, for lots of different reasons, a dealership might want to put a deal together even if they know they will be buried in the trade-in. If they struggle with the customer for an hour or more on the price and they get just enough movement for it to make just a tiny bit of sense, they sometimes get carried away and take the deal anyway in hopes that they aren't too deep underwater on the trade. And even if they are, they can always write in down on the books and spread that to other used cars in inventory. That only works if the person taking the deal has authority over both the new and used car departments.

Sometimes they are desperate to sell another new car. Maybe it's the last day of the month? Stuff like that.


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