# Avoiding Credit Card/ATM fees



## marspinball (Jan 19, 2006)

Hi

I've called all my credit cards and it seems 3% will be charged on all purchases. This included both Citi and Chase. They could not tell me which exchange rates they use.

I then called my regular bank which I have an ATM/Visa card with and they say there will be a $5 charge per withdraw and I won't be able to use the card as a charge card.

Finally I called my credit union and was told no fees will be charged if I use my Visa/ATM card and it should work fine as either a charge/ATM card. I then asked what was there exchange rate and they actually were able to answer this. They said a Euro would cost about a $1.35. I checked the rates today on the internet and was getting about $1.27 so they are charging about a 7% exchange rate fee even if there is no other charges.

I then called Capital One, who does not charge fees but they could not provide exchange rate info, and they even gave me multiple numbers to call but no one knew.

I'm planning on a three week stay and was hoping to pay everything on my credit card.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

I think the best is to get an ATM card and take out like $200 at a time...if you use Bank Of America ATM card at Duetsch Bank atm there is no fee..in the UK you could use Barclays..that's what I'm going to do


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## marspinball (Jan 19, 2006)

lilskel said:


> I think the best is to get an ATM card and take out like $200 at a time...if you use Bank Of America ATM card at Duetsch Bank atm there is no fee..in the UK you could use Barclays..that's what I'm going to do


There may be no fees but what is the exchange rate they are using? This is where they hide fees.


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

ATM's use the latest exchange rates


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## SteVTEC (Feb 16, 2005)

Have you tried calling American Express? I have an AMEX corporate card and never get surcharges and the exchange rate is usually pretty good. But that may be how it's setup for the company though, because right now I'm at a very large international corporation. Whenever I've been overseas I've always put all personal purchases on the AMEX also just because I'd avoid all the fees.

The only problem is that AMEX isn't taken everywhere, iirc. And credit cards in general just aren't as commonly used, esp in smaller towns. I always like to have lots of cash on hand.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

SteVTEC said:


> Have you tried calling American Express? I have an AMEX corporate card and never get surcharges and the exchange rate is usually pretty good. But that may be how it's setup for the company though, because right now I'm at a very large international corporation. Whenever I've been overseas I've always put all personal purchases on the AMEX also just because I'd avoid all the fees.
> 
> The only problem is that AMEX isn't taken everywhere, iirc. And credit cards in general just aren't as commonly used, esp in smaller towns. I always like to have lots of cash on hand.


AMEX got sued for non-disclosure of their foreign currency conversion fees. They had always charged 1% and that disclosure was hidden in the legal paperwork you got when you originally received the AMEX Card. Now they highlight the 2% surcharge on your statement. :eeps:


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

lilskel said:


> I think the best is to get an ATM card and take out like $200 at a time...if you use Bank Of America ATM card at Duetsch Bank atm there is no fee..in the UK you could use Barclays..that's what I'm going to do


I use a BOA ATM card out there as well. Works quite well.


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## dave071 (Mar 16, 2006)

*Try a Credit Card from a Credit Union*

Credits cards issued by credit unions often do not charge fees for currency conversion or use in another country. Also, USAA does not charge any such fees, although our local Credit Union here in Tucson also does not charge the fees realted to currency conversion or foreign transactions.


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## Kalin (Jul 7, 2005)

Generally the ATM is the best method. My credit union from the US charges a 1% processing fee and uses the closing wholesale rate.

I used to use a BofA Visa but stopped due to the international transaction fees.

I now use a Capital One Cash-back Visa... it's one of the best deals out there for international transactions. They waive the standard 1% int'l fee imposed by Visa plus you get 1% back on the purchase. And they use the wholesale exchange rate and show you the rate on the statement. Great card.


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## Eurobmw06 (Mar 19, 2006)

I am so mad at these fees. Last year I did not pay attention to my statement from us bank and sure enough after looking at it last night they were charging me 3% every time I took money out, almost $10 every time. My capital one visa did not charge any fees and I just talked to my credit union and they said there would not be any fees to use there atm card (accept for the normal $1 for using non-network atm) (I also checked with us bank again and they said there would not be any fees, yeah right!!!!!)


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## Fukukita (Jun 22, 2005)

I return from an ED trip (April 30) and made ATM withdrawals from my credit union and USAA debit cards. Both cards (one VISA and the other Mastercard) charged a 1% conversion fee which was buried in the single transaction on my statement. In other words, the best conversion rate (+ 1%) is equal to the charge you see on your account. My credit union also charged an additional 1% fee which was listed as a separate transaction line item and I thought the credit union card would be the best way of exchanging money :dunno: . Of the two debit cards, the one from USAA was far better.

Several hotels tried to have the credit card transaction made in U.S. dollars which results in a double conversion penalty. The first penalty is the conversion from euros into dollars at a 1-3% rate  and a second conversion rate of 1% from the credit card whether it be VISA or Mastercard. Irrespective of the fees (1% conversion fee from VISA or MC + any additional fee from your bank) you should pay the bill in Euros and not U.S. $.

With the dollar dropping like a rock against the Euro, you should use the bank/credit union that will give you the bext exchange rates.


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## Chuckycheese (Feb 26, 2006)

*Fees*

Yeah, those fees will eat you up. We went recently and took mostly cash....it's not really that big of a deal if you're only going to be gone for 2 or 3 weeks. I've gotten to the point where I do that even when I go to SE Asia (every year) and I've never had a problem. Also, cash is SO convenient.

By the way, I've had my eye on the Capital One Visa card...I think it's "foreign user friendly" but would welcome any comments from people that have used it.


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## Kalin (Jul 7, 2005)

Chuckycheese said:


> By the way, I've had my eye on the Capital One Visa card...I think it's "foreign user friendly" but would welcome any comments from people that have used it.


8000 baht will last FOREVER! 

I started using the Capital One Cash-back Visa two months ago and am very happy with it. As I said above, they waive the Visa 1% int'l conversion fee, use wholesale exchange rates, AND give you 1% cash-back!


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## gesoffen (Jun 18, 2004)

Fukukita said:


> ...
> Several hotels tried to have the credit card transaction made in U.S. dollars which results in a double conversion penalty. The first penalty is the conversion from euros into dollars at a 1-3% rate  and a second conversion rate of 1% from the credit card whether it be VISA or Mastercard. Irrespective of the fees (1% conversion fee from VISA or MC + any additional fee from your bank) you should pay the bill in Euros and not U.S. $.


Ahh, the "convenience" of dynamic currency conversion! This is a new thing they are trying to dope tourists into using. As you mentioned, you get a double whammy in the fact that you're paying a high conversion rate (in most cases, closer to 8%) - much higher than even the highest credit cards. Beware of this in hotels and restaurants, especially in touristy areas. This also pops up at some tourist attractions/touristy shops! BEWARE - always pay in local currency. The exception to this would be if you're making arrangements through a US company (e.g. consolidator rail tickets or rental car vouchers).


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## jjmdx (Oct 11, 2005)

we used mostly ATM cards to take out cash during our trips to europe in recent years... some hotels, especially those in italy, give you 5-10% discount if you pay cash... we use NetBank ATM cards/Visa debit cards for ATM transactions since Netbank doesn't charge ATM fees at all, and european banks doesn't charge those unreasonable ATM fees as US banks do... here's a very good article about using credit cards/ATMs in foreign countries...

http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange


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## Chuckycheese (Feb 26, 2006)

*Sorry*

Sorry, Kalin, I didn't see your first post about Capital One....I figued it was probably a good one and I plan to switch. Regarding Thai baht, the dollar has gotten hammered pretty good there, too. I spent 6 weeks there earlier in the year and Thailand isn't as much of a bargain as it used to be...(but, then, what is:dunno: )


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## Kalin (Jul 7, 2005)

jjmdx said:


> http://www.flyertalk.com/wiki/index.php/Credit/Debit/ATM_Cards_and_Foreign_Exchange


That's a great, comprehensive link.

With the rise of internet banks / banking, I see currency becoming more transparent. I have an HSBC online-only account that gives a better ATM conversion than my stateside credit union. There's still a fee tied to the transaction, but since it's rolled into one number I can't figure out if it's a less favorable exchange rate or a processing fee. In either case it's less than 1%.


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## dave071 (Mar 16, 2006)

*Avoiding fees*

Some advice from Rick Steves' web site on avoiding fees. http://www.ricksteves.com/news/travelnews/0605/fees.htm


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

Here are some simple rules (basically summarized from the link):

1. Do not exchange money before you arrive. Instead, use your ATM card after you land at an airport ATM. The rate you get will be far better than the rate (+ fees) you can get in the US prior to departure.

2. Use a Capital One MC or Visa if you can, as you will get a great exchange rate with 0-1% markup. Capital One has some great no annual fee cards, including one that gives you a 1% cash rebate. On $3000, you would save $90 compared with Chase, Cit, Amex and other cards. 

3. Use your Visa or MC whenever you can as the rate you get will be far better than you will get exchanging travelers checks or cash at ripoff exchange kiosks or even banks. But be wary of using your card at non-trusted merchants to avoid fraud. Most finer hotels and nice restaurants should be ok.

4. Always use your ATM card to get cash overseas. If you have a BofA card, you can use Deutchebank ATMs throughout Germany for free (we found them everywhere). If you have a Citibank card, you can use one of the many Citi ATMs in Germany, Italy, etc. Even if your bank charges you a fee, you will still come out far ahead of what you would get at a ripoff exchange place. 

5. Never do dynamic conversion (i.e. let a euro merchant charge you in $). The rate you get will be almost criminal.

6. Don't use Travelers Cheques except in an emergency. In fact, it is better to carry a few $20s or even $100 bills as you will get a better rate.

7. Bring an extra ATM and credit card. Split them up with your companions, or leave them in the hotel safe (but don't forget them when you checkout). You may need them if you lose a card or your bank places a fraud hold on your accounts.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Also, INFORM your credit card company and/or bank (atm) of your travel plans. They will ask you for the dates you plan to be there. This is very important to avoid having your CCs frozen on you!


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## aprilED (Oct 27, 2005)

*Offer from Century Bank*

No ATM fees anywhere in the world

http://www.centurybank.com/home/


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## BillLumberg (Mar 30, 2006)

marspinball said:


> There may be no fees but what is the exchange rate they are using? This is where they hide fees.


When I pulled money from a Deutsch Bank ATM in Munich using my BofA ATM card, I wasn't charged any fees (as it should be). Also the exchange rate worked out to be BETTER than the current rate listed on Yahoo Finance! :thumbup:


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

I got awesome rates using BofA and Deutsch Bank and Barclays in London..no fees at all...however when I used BofA in Italy at Deutsch Bank I was charged $5..

I'm not sure if the rule is that it has to be in Germany only as Deutsch Bank has ATM's in other countries, but it said Deutsch Bank-Bolzano on the $5 charge..when I called to get it taken off they checked that Deutsch Bank qualified and took it off, maybe not realizing that Bolzano is in Italy not Germany


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## bobped (Feb 18, 2006)

We actually got a AAA Platinum Visa card before our trip. They don't charge for currency conversion (beyond the 1% Visanet charge), and the exchange rates we got were good. MBNA actually underwrites the card, and I'm told it's the only MBNA card that doesn't charge 3% for conversion.

AAA also offers a 5% rebate on fuel purchases, which actually works for European fuel purchases (at least the ones I made), so on my recent trip where I spent ~$700 on fuel, I got back about $35.


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## BillLumberg (Mar 30, 2006)

lilskel said:


> l...however when I used BofA in Italy at Deutsch Bank I was charged $5


Yep, I got dinged for $5 when I used Deutsch Bank in Spain. Looks like is has to be in the country specified. However, I didn't get charged the $5 when I used BNP Paribas in Monaco, which technically is not part of France, but its own principality. 

Here's the list:
Barclays (United Kingdom)
BNP Paribas (France)
China Construction Bank (China)
Deutsche Bank (Germany)
Santander Serfin (Mexico)
Scotiabank (Canada)
Westpac (Australia and New Zealand)

EDIT: Well you inspired me to call BofA and try to recoup my $10 in fees. According to them, the bank does have to be in the country of origin. So me using Deutsche Bank in Spain would still incur the $5 fee. Argh.


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## racedriver (Dec 28, 2005)

*No extra fees at all - Capital One Visa*

I just spoke with Capital One Visa customer service regarding this topic and their response was "No. we do not charge fees at all." They only convert from Euros to Dollars.
Also I spoke to my bank, Commerce Bank in NJ, for ATM/Visa - there aren't any fees, just straight currency conversion.
But they both have asked me to call before the trip to make sure that they are aware of the charges from Europe.


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## OC 335i (Oct 5, 2006)

Had this thread bookmarked, also I heard that in Europe a lot of ATMs do not accept PINs over 4 digits.


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## Krafty04 (Mar 14, 2007)

I am an American citizen stationed overseas and there is only a few things I can suggest.

1. Call your bank and tell them your going overseas and activate your card for world-wide use or it won't work, no matter what the fees.

2. You might be able to activate a monthly plan for world-wide use that reduces your "non-XXXXX bank" fees and surcharges.

3. When we purchase items over here, we always get the best exchange rate from using our bank ATM visa card. Master card and Amer Exp is not common over here. 

4. Banks and credit unions masks their charges in other fees or add them into the "converted price". Remember, the conversion fee your quoted today will be different tomorrow.
Usually you cannot get around a standard fee for conversion and a second fee for non-XXXX bank access, so take out as much as you can each time to limit the fees you are charged. Usually it's $200/day in Europe, but some banks will increase per your request.

5. American Dollars are not valued over here, no one will take them, not even the beggers.

6. The pin thing mentioned is true. 4 digits only in the Multi-banco machines that are common. Be sure the first button you hit on any ATM is "english" unless it's your second language of course.

7. Good luck, no sneakers, no ball caps, no "USA #1" shirts. Tuck your shirt in, black or brown shoes, dress business casual and you might blend in. Remember, one bad image from an American and all of Europe will think all Americans are just like you. That's how it works in the states with other cultures, right?


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## The BoatMan (Apr 2, 2002)

Krafty04 said:


> 7. Good luck, no sneakers, no ball caps, no "USA #1" shirts. Tuck your shirt in, black or brown shoes, dress business casual and you might blend in. Remember, one bad image from an American and all of Europe will think all Americans are just like you. That's how it works in the states with other cultures, right?


Uh oh.....I dont go anywhere without my ball caps :rofl:


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

02330ci said:


> Uh oh.....I dont go anywhere without my ball caps :rofl:


No problem......make sure you wear the camouflage one with the rebel flag on it. The europeans really dig those! :bigpimp:










Erik

PS Huge bonus points for anyone who could spell camouflage without actually looking it up (not me)!


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## Hound Passer (Feb 2, 2007)

Krafty04 said:


> 7. Good luck, no sneakers, no ball caps, no "USA #1" shirts. Tuck your shirt in, black or brown shoes, dress business casual and you might blend in. Remember, one bad image from an American and all of Europe will think all Americans are just like you. That's how it works in the states with other cultures, right?


Great tips except for #7 there. I'm a little confused by some of it, mostly the shoes and business casual dress part. No way am I walking Europe w/o my sneakers. My feet would fall of after the first day.


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## bmwfanwashdc (Feb 28, 2007)

lilskel said:


> I think the best is to get an ATM card and take out like $200 at a time...if you use Bank Of America ATM card at Duetsch Bank atm there is no fee..in the UK you could use Barclays..that's what I'm going to do


i agree with you. i have used Duetsch Bank and barclays with no problem and no fees since bank of america customer. i would withdraw out more thatn $200 at a time. Just draw out daily limit and then cut down times needed to go to atm. I only get so many atms withdrawals free per month for other atms.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

Krafty04 said:


> 7. Good luck, no sneakers, no ball caps, no "USA #1" shirts. Tuck your shirt in, black or brown shoes, dress business casual and you might blend in. Remember, one bad image from an American and all of Europe will think all Americans are just like you. That's how it works in the states with other cultures, right?


Dude. So, if you were to go to Kuwait (as a non-military), you'd wear a djellaba? And dress your wife in an abaya, with a kufti on top?? And in Africa, will you wear one of those Mandela-style magdiba shirts? In Rome, I suppose we're all to stock up on Armani suits and D&G belts? Just be yourself, man. With all the money you must spend on native clothes, it's a wonder you have any left to go anywhere. This desire to bend over backwards to appease some fragile foreign sensitivities is mindboggling.

I see women in New York dressed in burkas, for crissakes. I don't immediately assume that all muslims wear burkas. And if I see a 300lb dude in Paris, in shorts, sneakers, with a "GO METS" tshirt.. so what? Who cares? Let him wear whatever he wants.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

Krafty04 said:


> .............
> 1. Call your bank and tell them your going overseas and activate your card for world-wide use or it won't work, no matter what the fees.
> 
> 2. You might be able to activate a monthly plan for world-wide use that reduces your "non-XXXXX bank" fees and surcharges.
> ...


1. It is blatantly wrong. Everyone in my family and extended family never called the bank to notify or activate anything. At most we get a phone call to confirm the transactions.

2. Monthly plan? What kind of bank is that? My bank'S' actually tell me that they value my business, they won't hit me with any ATM fees.


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## Contact Patch (Nov 11, 2005)

lilskel said:


> I think the best is to get an ATM card and take out like $200 at a time...if you use Bank Of America ATM card at Duetsch Bank atm there is no fee..in the UK you could use Barclays..that's what I'm going to do


Using BoA ATM card on Duetsch Bank ATM machines w/o service charge was what we did. We also found out that AMEX charged us very small fees and did not rip us on the exchange rate. You do have to call AMEX prior to traveling to eliminate the chance of having your account frozen, but not BoA.


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## OC 335i (Oct 5, 2006)

mason said:


> 1. It is blatantly wrong. Everyone in my family and extended family never called the bank to notify or activate anything. At most we get a phone call to confirm the transactions.


You should call Wells Fargo. Just last week they froze my Wells Fargo Visa when I had bought train tickets in Europe FROM THE U.S. (online).


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## ger3sf (Feb 3, 2004)

OC 335i said:


> You should call Wells Fargo. Just last week they froze my Wells Fargo Visa when I had bought train tickets in Europe FROM THE U.S. (online).


It may have tripped their fraud detection limits. For example, you have a new account that has never been used for internet/mail/phone order transactions, then an overseas e-commerce txn posts.


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## OC 335i (Oct 5, 2006)

ger3sf said:


> It may have tripped their fraud detection limits. For example, you have a new account that has never been used for internet/mail/phone order transactions, then an overseas e-commerce txn posts.


Good in theory but I use this card online quite a bit and in much larger amounts. (Gotta build up those points!). To customer service rep told me because it was an overseas transaction.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

guppyflyer said:


> No problem......make sure you wear the camouflage one with the rebel flag on it. The europeans really dig those! :bigpimp:


As seen on my recent ED trip on the street where the Munich Harms office is located:


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

AK said:


> As seen on my recent ED trip on the street where the Munich Harms office is located:


:rofl: Well, what can I say.......I'm speechless!  I suppose he had the horn from the General Lee!

Erik


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