# Precertified Warrenty Lemon rip offs to avoid



## Bart001 (Apr 9, 2005)

Jspira said:


> Sounds like you are buying an attorney in the same way you bought the car.


Indeed.


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## kendenton (Oct 31, 2005)

Jspira said:


> She didn´t buy it from a dealer, she bought it from a used car lot.


I know, which used car place?


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## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

*Breach of Warranty issues*

The attorney does not charge a fee. He does not charge a fee if he lose's. I have to talk to him on Monday. If he wins he collects all attorney fee's ect from the manufactuer or the warranty company.

(When I left from work on Friday he was already gone.........So I had not gotten all the details). I do know some firms take 1/3 or if you loose they hold a retainer. HE DOES NOT. This is information taken off another Attorney web site for NJ & Pa about Breach of Warrenty......Used.

Here is the Federal law guidelines..........READ THE PART WHAT IF I BOUGHT IT USED.

I bought it in May and had a claim paid in June by BMW for the oil light and check engine light.
Lemon Law Firm 
Serving PA & NJ

The Lemon Law is a state law which is defines when a manufacturer has breached its warranty and what the victim is entitled to for such a breach of warranty. The Pennsylvania Lemon Law and New Jersey Lemon Law provides for a Full Refund or a Replacement Vehicle and mandatory Attorney's Fees and Costs if the consumer prevails.

What to do if you have a Lemon Law Claim

1. Check the vehicle's warranty in order to inform yourself about the proper steps to take to guarantee legal recourse. (A warranty is a written guarantee that the vehicle is of good, sound quality.)

2. Hopefully, you can resolve the problem with your automobile dealer. They should want to remedy the problem to maximize future car sales.

3. If you cannot resolve the problem with your automobile dealer, contact our firm by calling our toll free telephone number 1-800-MY-LEMON (1-800-695-3666), email us or complete our free lemon law case evaluation. We will attempt to quickly resolve the claim with the manufacturer at no cost to you. Should the manufacturer refuse to comply with it's lemon law obligations we will promptly file suit seeking compensation under the lemon law. Should your case settle, all fees and costs will be paid by the manufacturer. Regardless of the outcome, you are never responsible for paying our fees and costs.

What is a "Lemon?"

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a lemon as: "One that is or proves to be unsatisfactory&#8230;" (Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston, 2nd College Ed., © 1985). However, in an effort to further define such a broad term, the Lemon Law attempts to define certain situations which entitle consumers to their money back or a new vehicle.

The Lemon Law is a powerful state law which defines when a manufacturer has breached its written warranty and what the purchaser is entitled to for such a breach of warranty. The lemon law act further provides for payment of all legal fees and costs by the manufacturer should the consumer prevail under the act.

In a nutshell, any defect or nonconformity, or combination of defects, which substantially impair the use value or safety of a new vehicle and which is/are not repaired within a reasonable number of attempts as defined in the lemon law, may entitle you to lemon law relief, consisting of a new car or full refund of the purchase price.

If you are aggravated enough to be reading this you may have a lemon and may be entitled to a settlement under the lemon law and/or federal warranty act. Our firm has represented thousands of consumers throughout Pennsylvania and New Jersey and we have been successful in obtaining lemon law and breach of warranty relief for our clients. Please call us at 1-800-MY-LEMON 
(1-800-695-3666) to learn more about your rights, and how we can assist you in your lemon law and/or breach of warranty claim, or complete our free case evaluation. There's no fee or cost to you for our service.

What types of products are covered by the Lemon Law ?

All motor vehicles primary used for personal use are covered under the Pennsylvania and New Jersey Lemon Law.

Are leased vehicles covered under the Lemon Law?

(A). Pennsylvania Lemon Law: In Pennsylvania all vehicles leased after February 11, 2002 are covered under the PA lemon law. Unfortunately, vehicles leased before February 10, 2002 in Pennsylvania are not covered under the PA lemon law (please note that despite the lack of coverage for vehicles leased before February 11, 2002, there are still rights to compensation pursuant to the Federal Warranty Act. For further information regarding the inclusion of leased vehicles under the Pennsylvania lemon law please click here.

(B). New Jersey Lemon Law: The New Jersey lemon law provides coverage for leased cars.

When Does my Vehicle Qualify under the Lemon Law?

Should the manufacturer fail to abide by it's obligations under the lemon law you have the statutory right to file suit in court seeking compensation for your claim. The lemon law act provides for payment of all attorney fees and costs should the consumer prevail. Please call our firm to discuss your lemon law rights and how we can assist you under the lemon law.

What if I Start having Problems After the Lemon Law year/mileage limitation?

You may still be entitled to compensation. There are other laws which govern warranties which may be used to assist you, including Federal Warranty Act, also known as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and the Uniform Commercial Code. XXXX represents a great number of individuals whose vehicles did not start having problems during the lemon law year/mileage limitation.

Should I Take it in Again?

The answer to that question depends on the facts and circumstances of each case. Therefore, at this point, the best thing to do is maintain the status quo until you have the chance to speak with a qualified attorney. In other words, do not allow the condition of the vehicle to change by having any repair work done to it. However, if your vehicle is dangerous and you continue to use it, you do so at your own risk. It is important to remember that if you decide to go forward many of the manufacturers will want to inspect your vehicle. You have a much better chance of obtaining the Lemon Law relief you seek if you can demonstrate a defect. If you cannot, you may still be entitled to compensation, but the chances of you getting what you want may be reduced somewhat.

What if they Refuse to Repair?

If the dealer refuses to repair your vehicle, you may also have a Lemon Law claim. The manufacturer has given a warranty, which in most circumstances, requires the dealer to do repair work. If the dealer and/or the manufacturer then refuse to do the repair work, you may have a claim under the Lemon Law, Federal Warranty Law and/or other laws.

What is a Breach of Warranty Case?

Basically, it is the same as a Lemon Law case, however, with two notable differences. First, the standards or requirements for breach of warranty are not as clearly defined. Second, the remedies for breach of warranty are also not as clearly defined. Therefore, you should consult a qualified attorney to discuss whether you may have a breach of warranty case.

What Documents do I Need to Prove a Lemon Law or a Breach of Warranty Case?

The most important documents that you should have to Prove a Lemon Law or a Breach of Warranty Case are the repair orders that you are given after your vehicle has been in for repair. Each time you take your vehicle in for repair you should make sure that all the information contained on these documents is correct. For example, you should be sure that all the complaints are written up EXACTLY as you have stated them; that ALL of your complaints on that visit are included; that the "dates in" and the "dates out" are correct; that the mileage is correct; etc. In Pennsylvania and New Jersey, dealers are required under the Lemon Law to give you a copy of all of your repair orders. If you cannot get them yourself, a qualified attorney may be able to issue a subpoena to the dealership to obtain all the documents on your vehicle. Also, if you keep a calendar of appointments which shows when you took the vehicle in to the dealer, this can be helpful in lieu of or in addition to the repair orders.

What Can I Get for a Lemon Law and or Breach of Warranty Case?

The ultimate relief in a Lemon Law Case is your money back or a new car. This is known as a "buy back" or a "repurchase." When that occurs, the defective vehicle is returned to the manufacturer. This is usually done by returning it locally to one of their authorized dealers. Under a breach of warranty case the consumer obtains compensation in the form of a partial refund with continued ownership of the car. The vast majority of cases are settled under breach of warranty allowing the consumer to receive compensation with continued ownership of the car. In either recovery all attorney fees and costs are paid by the manufacturer.

How will my Attorney Get Paid?

Should we agree to represent you, all fees and costs are paid by the manufacturer and added to the settlement. There is no fee or cost to you for our services. Within our website the word "free" and "free representation" means only that XXXX & Associates will not charge any of its clients attorneys' fees or costs pursuant to the Magnuson Moss Act and Lemon Law Act. XXXX & Associates will seek to recover all attorney's fees from the manufacturer and/or dealer pursuant to State and Federal Laws. Accordingly, the services of XXX & Associates are at no charge to any of its clients. However, cases involving fraud and commercial vehicles require a contingency fee agreement (percentage of recovery) paid to David J. Gorberg & Associates.

What are my Chances?

XXXX & Associates represents many consumers every year with defective vehicles. The majority of our cases settle to the satisfaction of both parties.

Can I Resolve This Myself?

You probably should avoid aggravating yourself further and wasting time. First, there is a reason that all 50 states have some form of a Lemon Law. Lemon Laws are passed to remedy problems which have become widespread. However, the mere fact that there is a lemon law does not mean that you will be treated differently if you represent yourself. It still costs a manufacturer less to drag it out with an unrepresented consumer and hope you will either go away or take little or nothing, than it would cost for them to buy back everyone's vehicle who made a complaint. Second, if you fail, you will have wasted precious time if you then have to hire an attorney. By being represented by an experienced lemon law firm you lend legitimacy to your case, and the experience you need to obtain a good result.

What if I Bought my Vehicle Used?

First, if you still had any warranty left from the manufacturer when you purchased your vehicle (or your vehicle was "Certified" by the manufacturer or dealer), and you made at least one unsuccessful warranty claim before the warranty ended, you may be entitled to compensation for breach of warranty.

What You Should do if You have Purchased a Used Car: One or more of the following procedures may prove to be useful in discovering whether there is something about your vehicle that you were not told:

1. Go to http://www.carfax.com 2. See a body shop mechanic to determine if your vehicle was wrecked;

3. Have your Insurance Company run your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) on their computer (may be called a C.L.U.E. report) to see if an accident claim was ever made with another insurance company; and/or

4. Go to an authorized dealer and have them check the computer to see if it was wrecked or to let you know what the mileage was every time the vehicle was in for repair.

What if I was Lied To, Misled or Taken Advantage of in Connection with the Purchase of my Vehicle?

Again, your case may raise a whole host of issues which are beyond the scope of this "Frequently Asked Questions" section. However, there are many state and federal laws


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## Bart001 (Apr 9, 2005)

Unfortunately, "the internet makes you stupid" is not just a funny slogan.


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## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

*Downhill*

I passed another used car dealer by chance in Pa. Lined up where all quality BMW's, Volvo, Audi's, ect. I scribbled down the name.

I brought up the web site and yet another clever addvertisment selling CPO BMW's ect. balance of CPO factory warrenty. BMW needs to make a decission where they are drawing the line.

Is it false advertising......? CPO follows the car until a BMW dealer choose's to cancel it.

I have 5 months worth of repair bills by BMW CPO only to find out it should have never passed.

The lawyer did not cost me a dime. If he loses I do not have to pay him anything.

I really do not see any other option at this point. I have a car with NO engine and still have payments plus insurance.


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## damills (Nov 6, 2002)

Lois822 said:


> I passed another used car dealer by chance in Pa. Lined up where all quality BMW's, Volvo, Audi's, ect. I scribbled down the name.
> 
> I brought up the web site and yet another clever addvertisment selling CPO BMW's ect. balance of CPO factory warrenty. BMW needs to make a decission where they are drawing the line.
> 
> ...


What is the website?


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## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

I will PM it to you.


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## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

http://www.certifiedimports.com/

Click on the red convertible and read the part about the remainder of the CPO warrenty.


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## guitarmaker (Dec 21, 2005)

Lois822 said:


> Good news. I got an attorney. He will not accept a case unless he can win. He does not charge a fee to me.....at all. I have to see how he settles if he wins. I heard some lawyers will get a 3rd. At this point I really have nothing but a large car loan to bet on.
> 
> There seems to be a lot of conflicting information with this particular car. The car fax does not match up with the BMW records for one. The extended warranty should have never been issued to this car. There are some very fishy dealing going on here.
> 
> ...


Is the attorney certified?:dunno:


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## iove75 (Sep 10, 2004)

It looks like you have a cognizable claim against the selling car lot not BMW as the abuse occurred long after it was certified. Like all warranties, you need to show maintenance records for new and CPO warranty if lack of maintenance is an issue.


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

Wow, not a good story at all.

I would assume that CPO is in effect when someone buys the car from a dealer, and that dealer certifies THAT SALE. 

I believe that If you buy a BMW CPO from a dealer, then sell it to me, I can't sell it as CPO. Sounds like that is what happened to you.

I hope you can get this mess worked out. And I wouldn't be terribly comfortable with that lawyer either, but thats just my $0.02.


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

Lois822 said:


> http://www.certifiedimports.com/
> 
> Click on the red convertible and read the part about the remainder of the CPO warrenty.


I clicked on the red convertible (both of 'em) and nothing.

Their warranty is not the same as a BMW CPO. Its just a used car lot who is calling their vehicles "Certified". That and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee.


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## Bart001 (Apr 9, 2005)

hockeynut said:


> I clicked on the red convertible (both of 'em) and nothing.
> 
> Their warranty is not the same as a BMW CPO. Its just a used car lot who is calling their vehicles "Certified". That and 50 cents will get you a cup of coffee.


No, the description of the red 2001 Z3 convertible says, "This one also includes the balance of the BMW Certified Pre-Owned warranty with coverage good through November 20, 2006 or 100,000 miles."

The issue still remains that BMW is not certifying the condition of ANY of those cars. All that Z3 carries is the warranty 'left over' from when a dealership sold it. Whether BMW should be performing any work under said warranty depends on the terms of the warranty, including any requirements for keeping up with scheduled maintenance and whether the transer procedures have been followed correctly. If I had access to the full text of the warranty I'd read it, but I don't.


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## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

I did not hire the attorney that I posted the clip from. It just states the laws in NJ & Pa I thought it would be helpful hopefully for someone else.

I verified with more than 1 BMW dealership that the CPO follows the car unless BMW cancels it for some reason.

Example: There is a CPO (wrecked) sitting right next to mine at the BMW dealer that has my car. They asked me if I had noticed it. Sure I did. They said it is not recommended to be fixed and the owner will get a check from his insurance company. He can sell it as is. Someone could buy and fix it and try to sell it as a CPO.

This dealership had already gone in and canceled the CPO so this will not happen. 

They told me that mine should have never pasted the CPO warranty and it should have been canceled at some point.

ALSO UP FOR DISCUSSION IS WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER THE IN SERVICE DATE? 1st date it was sold to someone or the date it was manufactured.

My attorney is also questioning this.

Mine was not sold for the first time or titled until Jan 2000 so my pre certified should have been good up until Jan 2006 (if I should have had it).......

When I get the copy of the CPO I will post it for you to read.......the attorney sued the Warranty company, BMW and the place I bought it. Time will tell I guess.

I got the paper work and I do not have to pay anything at all. It could take 1 month to 15 months but heck I have a car with no motor anyway.


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## Bart001 (Apr 9, 2005)

Wonderful -- you have an attorney who is quick to sue every business he can think of, yet doesn't even know the terms of the warranty and what they mean prior to filing suit.


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## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

No-I do not know what the fine print details are on the CPO. BMW was going to give me a copy of the CPO which I failed to get with my car. This is not the CPO for my car but what they are supposed to do with the multi checks ects to qualify and the wording of the CPO.

I am just trying to help others out so they do not end up in the mess I am in.


The attorney is not charging me a thing even if he looses the case. That is in writing 100%. Seems better than the options I have right now. He recoops his fee's the dealer, manufactuer and warranty company. Possibly all three. Who know's I am not the attorney.

Maybe he sues them all so who ever ends up paying picks up all legal fee tabs which is not me.


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## NTB (Oct 20, 2004)

iove75 said:


> It looks like you have a cognizable claim against the selling car lot not BMW as the abuse occurred long after it was certified. Like all warranties, you need to show maintenance records for new and CPO warranty if lack of maintenance is an issue.


Quoted because I do not think she is getting it.

The car was certified 30,000 miles before you bought it, do you have any maintenance records from this time?
You are blamming BMW for a Lemon car you bought off a used car lot. You should be going after the selling car lot if you have read their (supposed) inspection they do on their cars.

I guess it is the American way, it is not my fault, let me blame someone else.

If you do have all the maintenance records for the car during that period and all items were taken care of in a normal timely fashion, then you may have a case against BMW, but you should be going after certifiedimports, they state that they inspect every car they sell.

Quoted off their main page.
Certified Imports, LLC is a pre-owned import automobile dealer located on Route 309 in Coopersburg, PA. We specialize in "Distinctive Pre-owned Automobiles" of high quality and value. We begin our Certified process by hand selecting only the finest vehicles. We do not sell cars that have had any major accident, flood, theft recovery or re-construction history. It is our preference to sell vehicles with only one or two previous owners and with an excellent appearance and service history. We thoroughly examine each car with a 125 point mechanical and safety inspection. We repair or replace any worn or defective parts that we find and then issue a new state safety and emissions inspection. On average, we spend more than $1,000 on each vehicle to make sure they are as safe and reliable as possible. Once this process is complete, our in house reconditioning department professionally cleans and details each vehicle before being parked on our front line. Whether it is a four wheel drive, a third car for the family, or a weekend convertible, remember that at Certified Imports, quality, value and honesty are always first, regardless of the vehicle price! And if we don't have the vehicle that you are looking for, just let us know and we can get it, at no extra charge. At Certified Imports, we are confident that you will not be disappointed with the quality of our vehicles or our dealership
End quote.

I would ask the selling dealership for these records, and also what is involved in their 125 point inspection.


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