# 2014 F30 328d NOx sensor crisis - HELP!!!!



## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

Already posted this in the F30 forum but I figured I'd post here as well thanks to a reply I got from someone. Thanks to everyone in advance!

New to the forum so any help is greatly appreciated.










Edit: Since everyone on this forum seems to really care about pictures of the car... it's a 2014 328d Melbourne Red Metallic sport line with black leather and the red interior accents. Absolutely stunning spec... I get compliments on it daily. Not to mention it's loaded, complete with every option available except the cold weather package. Original MSRP was $53,975. I f*cking love this car and this spec. But it doesn't do me any good when it's sitting at the service center 

Anyway here's the story:

I bought my 2014 328d used with 45k miles in November of 2016 at a dealership in South FL, clean Carfax one owner lease... but I bought it without doing any real research about the known problems with modern BMW diesels. Big mistake I guess. At 49,500 miles I was offered an extended warranty until 120k miles, which I turned down, and I let the factory warranty expire at the 50k mark. I put 12,000 problem-free miles on the car and was getting between 40 and 45 mpg average. It seemed like the best purchase I could have made, until I was driving down I-95 one night last week at around 80 mph and I got a message on the i-Drive system as well as on the dash stating that there was an "Incorrect Exhaust Fluid Added" (pics below) and I had 200 miles to get it to a BMW service center or the car would fail to start. I was about to be due for an oil change so I figured it may just be a code because it needed more AdBlue fluid with the service. It was the night before I was supposed to leave for a business trip to the gulf coast and I really wanted to take my car so instead of doing extensive research I called my service advisor at Braman BMW in Miami and he told me to bring it in early in the morning before I left. Another big mistake. I dropped it off at 7am the next day, and on the way there the CEL came on. I was then charged a $250 diagnostic fee which was expected, and then at 9am my service advisor texted me saying that they needed to do a further diagnostic which would cost $747 plus tax and shop fee. I allowed them to do that (like an idiot) and 2 long hours later I got another text stating "Both NOx sensors will need to be replaced as well as an oil service which is due. The total cost to proceed will be $3,800 plus tax and shop fee." The minimum I can pay to get the car out at this point is around $800 for the diagnostic... so should I just take it to an independent mechanic? Or should eat the cost now I just get it done right by BMW? Is this likely to happen again? Will the car actually "shut off" or "fail to start" when the range hits zero?

What pisses me off the most is that the sensors don't affect how the car runs or performs at all from what I understand... so I feel like I'm getting charged $4,000 for absolutely nothing. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Is there any possible way to just clear the codes and run the car without them?

Again, any help is greatly appreciated. I am returning from the gulf coast on Monday and need to make a decision about the car soon. Thank you all!

Also as a further note... this is my first diesel but not my first BMW. I have had plenty of experience with them in the past.



















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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Pay now but diagnosis and replacement has been done, so pay no more in the 'area' due to BMW two year parts and labor replacement warranty. If they try to charge you again in the area then lawyer up.

No, EPA demands the proper operation of SCR. Document your difficulties with EPA, and separately with SaferCar.gov at

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml


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## Dons328d (May 4, 2017)

I may be wrong, but I thought emission control systems were covered for 8 years and 80,000 miles?? Perhaps you should call another dealer and with the knowledge of what is wrong with your car, flat out ask if these items and the labor to fix are covered under warranty and if not, why not?


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

Doug Huffman said:


> Pay now but diagnosis and replacement has been done, so pay no more in the 'area' due to BMW two year parts and labor replacement warranty. If they try to charge you again in the area then lawyer up.
> 
> No, EPA demands the proper operation of SCR. Document your difficulties with EPA, and separately with SaferCar.gov at
> 
> https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml


Thanks for the information Doug. I wasn't aware of the BMW two year parts and replacement warranty.

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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

Dons328d said:


> I may be wrong, but I thought emission control systems were covered for 8 years and 80,000 miles?? Perhaps you should call another dealer and with the knowledge of what is wrong with your car, flat out ask if these items and the labor to fix are covered under warranty and if not, why not?


Thank you for the response. I believe that is for the the older model BMW diesels like the 2009-2011 335d and X5d. I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply to the 328d. I could be wrong as well though, I hope I am... however I did ask my dealer if it was covered under warranty and they said no. I also asked if there was a recall on the sensors or the system itself and there wasn't one either. Does anyone else have any knowledge to whether or not the emissions control system is covered for 8 years or 80,000 miles?

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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Read your warranty booklet closely!

Don't have one? They may be online at BMW NA but you'll have to pick the right one.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Dons328d said:


> I may be wrong, but I thought emission control systems were covered for 8 years and 80,000 miles?


Don, there are many, many people confused about this. The OP needs to have his NOx sensors replaced, which isn't covered past 2Y/24K. Here's the post in the X5 section that has the pdf attachment http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10201337&postcount=23. FYI, the only thing covered post 50K is California cars (7/70K) and Federal "Specific Control Devices" (8/80): NOx sensors are not in the Federal 8/80K, and the OP is not in a CA state.

OP: these threads about the same problems (DEF fluid bad) and some of the fixes, may well interest you.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1300092
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=967211


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

floydarogers said:


> Don, there are many, many people confused about this. The OP needs to have his NOx sensors replaced, which isn't covered past 2Y/24K. Here's the post in the X5 section that has the pdf attachment http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10201337&postcount=23. FYI, the only thing covered post 50K is California cars (7/70K) and Federal "Specific Control Devices" (8/80): NOx sensors are not in the Federal 8/80K, and the OP is not in a CA state.
> 
> OP: these threads about the same problems (DEF fluid bad) and some of the fixes, may well interest you.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the reply once again. I believe I was thinking of the recall on those older model cars and not the warranty. Are you absolutely sure California is the only state with anything covered over 50k? Someone mentioned in a different thread that 13 states that had passed CARB standards, and therefore the emissions systems in those 13 states are all covered until 7/70? The car is currently registered in Pennsylvania because that is where I have a second residence and I do a lot of my driving between PA and FL. Anyone know if emissions systems are covered under warranty in Pennsylvania?


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

MelbourneF30 said:


> Appreciate the reply once again. I believe I was thinking of the recall on those older model cars and not the warranty. Are you absolutely sure California is the only state with anything covered over 50k? Someone mentioned in a different thread that 13 states that had passed CARB standards, and therefore the emissions systems in those 13 states are all covered until 7/70? The car is currently registered in Pennsylvania because that'a where I have a second residence and I do a lot of my driving between PA and FL. Anyone know if emissions systems are covered under warranty in Pennsylvania?


I think PA is a CA emissions state - check the reference. There are some rules: 1) car must have been bought and registered in CA states. If the car was originally from FL and moved to PA, probably isn't covered.

Your signature shows FL; that's what I'm going off of.


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

floydarogers said:


> I think PA is a CA emissions state - check the reference. There are some rules: 1) car must have been bought and registered in CA states. If the car was originally from FL and moved to PA, probably isn't covered.
> 
> Your signature shows FL; that's what I'm going off of.


Yes I am currently in FL, however I have a residence in PA as well and decided to register it there instead of in FL. However, I did purchase the car in FL ... and it was originally leased in TX. Sorry I failed to mention that. I didn't know it mattered where the car was registered but clearly it does.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

MelbourneF30 said:


> Yes I am currently in FL, however I have a residence in PA as well and decided to register it there instead of in FL. However, I did purchase the car in FL ... and it was originally leased in TX. Sorry I failed to mention that. I didn't know it mattered where the car was registered but clearly it does.


I just re-read the warranty and still don't know. You'll probably have to call BMWNA to determine coverage.

Because some people don't have their booklet (used cars...), here's the booklet PDF from my 2010 335d. The x5d had similar, but BMW keeps changing the wording and later replaced their list of "covered items" with a disclaimer saying that "BMWNA will determine coverage so call us". Start reading on p.34 (38 in the pdf file.)
View attachment 2010_335_diesel_service_warranty_booklet.pdf


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## ingenieur (Dec 26, 2006)

.....

Federal Emissions System Defect Warranty (Cont.)
(Valid Only in the U.S.A. Including Puerto Rico)
Additionally, if you are resident of the state of California or a state that has adopted relevant sections of the
California Vehicle Emission Control regulations *and your vehicle (applicable model years only) is registered in
that state, your vehicle is eligible for California Emissions Warranty coverage.*
These federal warranty provisions also apply to all vehicles sold in all U.S.A. states and territories regardless of
whether a state has enacted state warranty provisions that differ from the federal provisions.

California Emission Control Warranty Statement*
Your Warranty Rights and Obligations
The California Air Resources Board and BMW of North America, LLC (BMW NA) are pleased to explain the
emission control system warranty on your BMW vehicle. In California, new motor vehicles must be designed,
built and equipped to meet the State***8217;s stringent anti-smog standards. BMW NA must warrant the emission
control system on your vehicle for the periods of time listed below, provided there has been no abuse, neglect
or improper maintenance of your vehicle.
Your emission control system may include parts such as the fuel injection system, the ignition system, catalytic
converter, and engine computer. Also included may be hoses, belts, connectors and other emission-related
assemblies.
Where a warrantable condition exists,* BMW NA will repair your vehicle at no cost to you including diagnosis,
parts and labor.*
Manufacturer***8217;s Warranty Coverage:
- For 3 years or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first:
1. If your vehicle fails a Smog Check inspection, all necessary repairs and adjustments will be made by
BMW NA to ensure that your vehicle passes the inspection. This is your emission control system
PERFORMANCE WARRANTY.
2. If any emission-related part on your vehicle is defective, the part will be repaired or replaced by BMW
NA. This is your short-term emission control system DEFECTS WARRANTY.
- For 7 years or 70,000 miles (8 years or 100,000 miles for certain models), whichever occurs first:


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

floydarogers said:


> I just re-read the warranty and still don't know. You'll probably have to call BMWNA to determine coverage.
> 
> Because some people don't have their booklet (used cars...), here's the booklet PDF from my 2010 335d. The x5d had similar, but BMW keeps changing the wording and later replaced their list of "covered items" with a disclaimer saying that "BMWNA will determine coverage so call us". Start reading on p.34 (38 in the pdf file.)
> 
> View attachment 604522





ingenieur said:


> .....
> 
> Federal Emissions System Defect Warranty (Cont.)
> (Valid Only in the U.S.A. Including Puerto Rico)
> ...


Thank you both very much! I guess I'll have to verify it with BMWNA. The NOx sensors, which are part of the emissions system are defective at 57k miles, and the car is registered in PA which is a CA emissions state. Sounds like I'm good to go right?


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## J.J. (Apr 14, 2007)

It's infuriating to me that BMW wants to charge 4K to replace 2 sensors. That just seems irrational. It's not even my vehicle and I'm steamed. 

As much as I would hate to, I would begin deleting the entire emissions system so that I never dealt with that again. I would assume you could delete the entire system and have it tuned for optimal power, performance and efficiency for less than $4K. Coughing up $4K every time a sensor decides to go bad is just a no-no. 

Is there a DIY somewhere that explains how to replace these sensors yourself?

Good luck OP. Keep us informed.


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

J.J. said:


> It's infuriating to me that BMW wants to charge 4K to replace 2 sensors. That just seems irrational. It's not even my vehicle and I'm steamed.
> 
> As much as I would hate to, I would begin deleting the entire emissions system so that I never dealt with that again. I would assume you could delete the entire system and have it tuned for optimal power, performance and efficiency for less than $4K. Coughing up $4K every time a sensor decides to go bad is just a no-no.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the post. It's infuriating to me as well. The plan is to see if the sensors can be replaced by warranty in PA because the vehicle is registered there and not in FL, and PA is a CA emissions state. If it happens again I will definitely look into to deleting the system entirely... because the whole thing is just ridiculous.

If BMWNA approves my vehicle for warranty coverage that will mean I have to drive it to PA because it is currently in FL. However, I only have about 100 miles left on the range before the vehicle "fails to start" - does anyone know if this will actually happen? Or will I have to make the 22 hour trip without turning the vehicle off at all?


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## ingenieur (Dec 26, 2006)

Pretty certain the warranty work can still be done in Florida or any state - they just need to verify your registration - the FL dealer may not do it very often since they are not one of the states that follow CA guidelines. 
Ask them first - their warranty dept. has the policy guidelines.
Yes - it will not start when it get to 0 and it is turned off - do not drive it any further.


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

ingenieur said:


> Pretty certain the warranty work can still be done in Florida or any state - they just need to verify your registration - the FL dealer may not do it very often since they are not one of the states that follow CA guidelines.
> 
> Ask them first - their warranty dept. has the policy guidelines.
> 
> Yes - it will not start when it get to 0 and it is turned off - do not drive it any further.


Thank you. I'll update everyone once I get this figured out. Thanks again to everyone who posted a reply to this thread and took the time to read it, I sincerely appreciate the help.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Check your warranty, there will be information for the factory warranty, a CA emissions 7/70k warranty which applies to CA emissions states, and a federal 8/80k which applies to all cars in the US. Each model and engine has different specific coverages.

The nox sensors are listed at around $550 each. The dealer is likely following the BMW standard repair for this, but as usual it is wrong. Sensors should be replaced one at a time to determine which is the problem and only the problem sensor replaced. Regardless of that, charging $3k in labor to replace both is absolutely ludicrous. Both of these are easy to replace, a monkey could replace both in 2 hours including a lunch break.

NOx sensors are absolutely covered under the CA warranty, this is pretty clear in the warranty book. Not so with the federal warranty, as usual the federal 8/80k warranty only covers the catalytic converter and the engine computer.

http://cache.bmwusa.com/pdf_d339ddf...9.arox?v=b6c810bb-e632-437d-8abc-f7a753800f15


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

Hoooper said:


> Check your warranty, there will be information for the factory warranty, a CA emissions 7/70k warranty which applies to CA emissions states, and a federal 8/80k which applies to all cars in the US. Each model and engine has different specific coverages.
> 
> The nox sensors are listed at around $550 each. The dealer is likely following the BMW standard repair for this, but as usual it is wrong. Sensors should be replaced one at a time to determine which is the problem and only the problem sensor replaced. Regardless of that, charging $3k in labor to replace both is absolutely ludicrous. Both of these are easy to replace, a monkey could replace both in 2 hours including a lunch break.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the reply! I will be speaking with the dealer tomorrow. Just got back today from the gulf coast of FL.


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## MelbourneF30 (Apr 9, 2017)

See page 2.


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