# Destination Charge should not be levied for European Delivery



## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

I have assumed that BMW, just like Mercedes, does not assess a destination charge for European Delivery. Both reflect in their promotional materials that the European Delivery price includes shipping back to the U.S. Do some BMW dealers attempt to add the destination charge for European Deliveries? If BMW is including this charge for European Delivery customers I believe they may be subject to deceptive advertising claims which is clearly why Mercedes avoids imposing it.


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## IrvRobinson (May 10, 2006)

The destination charge is on every car,period.Whether it's on the boat,train or truck! There is even a destination charge on X5's and Z4's when picked up at the Performance center.Every manufacture has a destination charge.Shipping charges are also factored into every product,from groceries to clothing and anything else you can think of......


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

IrvRobinson said:


> The destination charge is on every car,period.Whether it's on the boat,train or truck! There is even a destination charge on X5's and Z4's when picked up at the Performance center.Every manufacture has a destination charge.Shipping charges are also factored into every product,from groceries to clothing and anything else you can think of......


The better question is why any car has a destination charge, given they're identical regardless of destination. It made some sense when the charges were different depending on how far from the factory the destination was. But now? It's just a way to keep the base MSRP down a few hundred $.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

Deceptive??? Before purchasing my car, I spoke with 6 different dealers. They were all upfront that destination charges imposed. 

Deceptive may not be.........It is eye of the beholder. It is subject to interpretation. I see it as BMW handles the marine transportation for you, i.e. the booking, paperwork and shipping processes. It didn't say the cost of the process is free of charge.


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## bimmer12safrad (Feb 13, 2006)

Tanning machine said:


> The better question is why any car has a destination charge, given they're identical regardless of destination. * It made some sense when the charges were different depending on how far from the factory the destination was.* But now? It's just a way to keep the base MSRP down a few hundred $.


Machine:
When were destination charges different depending on distance from factory? The sensible thing is to average the cost over all destinations, which is how it has been since I have been buying cars. Buyers in Detroit pay the same as those in Miami.


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## enkur (Oct 12, 2006)

I am just wondering why that charge is called out separately. Why not just include it in the MSRP/Invoice that way you are not wondering what this is all about. I mean when I buy a 73" Mitsubishi DLP TV they dont list the MSRP + destination (although I am pretty sure the shipping on that monster isnt cheap)


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

bimmer12safrad said:


> Machine:
> When were destination charges different depending on distance from factory? The sensible thing is to average the cost over all destinations, which is how it has been since I have been buying cars. Buyers in Detroit pay the same as those in Miami.


Years and years ago, according to my parents. I know they're the same, now, but that's why it's odd that it's broken out as a separate line.

If they're going to charge everyone the same thing, then why not build it into the price, as they do for the chassis, steering wheel, windshield wipers, etc.?

The sensible thing is not to do an average cost and have a separate line, it's to have no line, or to have different charges depending on location. Now, I understand why not to have different charges, but that leaves the first possibility--build it into MSRP.

Why not? Becuse it's a way to get a little more from teh customer, just like the various fees added on to airline tickets and everything else these days.


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## ssamols (Apr 11, 2002)

I maybe way off base here, but I thought I read somewhere on this board (it was some time ago, maybe 2 years) that the destination fee was mandated (regulated?) by the Federal Government. I thought the thread related to PDC delivery and why there should be a charge for delivery when the Factory was right there ( or a mile os so away). Anyone remember this?


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

I would have thought BMW would mirror Mercedes though. Curious if Volvo follows Mercedes in not charging a destination fee via European Delivery or for that matter if BMW is alone in including destination fee for their European Delivery customers.


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## iversonm (Nov 15, 2004)

Tanning machine said:


> If they're going to charge everyone the same thing, then why not build it into the price, as they do for the chassis, steering wheel, windshield wipers, etc.?
> 
> The sensible thing is not to do an average cost and have a separate line, it's to have no line, or to have different charges depending on location. Now, I understand why not to have different charges, but that leaves the first possibility--build it into MSRP.
> .


Why this won't happen:

Every other car manufacturer has a destination charge. This, in effect, allows everyone to advertise prices $500-900 less than actual cost. It is customary, and is well understood in the marketplace. Why would one maker choose to advertise higher prices than everyone else?

The other reason this won't happen is that localized costs will hurt dealers far from the factory. If it costs $2000 to ship to CA, and $100 to ship to a dealer in SC, the dealers in CA will be stinking mad over all the people traveling to SC to get their car.


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## bimmer12safrad (Feb 13, 2006)

ssamols said:


> I maybe way off base here, but I thought I read somewhere on this board (it was some time ago, maybe 2 years) that the destination fee was mandated (regulated?) by the Federal Government. I thought the thread related to PDC delivery and why there should be a charge for delivery when the Factory was right there ( or a mile os so away). Anyone remember this?


Ssamols:
Correct. Otherwise there would be no local dealers. They all would be in Detroit, Mexico, etc; just feet away from the plants.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Northcar said:


> If BMW is including this charge for European Delivery customers I believe they may be subject to deceptive advertising claims which is clearly why Mercedes avoids imposing it.


On what basis might it be considered deceptive advertising?


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## bimmer12safrad (Feb 13, 2006)

Jspira said:


> On what basis might it be considered deceptive advertising?


J:
Here is the deception. It is placed in a lonely place at the bottom of the invoice in a line all by itself. This is on purpose so that by the time you finish looking over all the options, you a a little woozy and the eyes glance right over it. But the kicker is the cost; $695. which is the cost of get rich quick schemes and subliminally retards common sense. Hey Guys, the last few days have not been a picnic here. Enjoy the break from the Einstein stuff.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

bimmer12safrad said:


> J:
> Here is the deception. It is placed in a lonely place at the bottom of the invoice in a line all by itself. This is on purpose so that by the time you finish looking over all the options, you a a little woozy and the eyes glance right over it. But the kicker is the cost; $695. which is the cost of get rich quick schemes and subliminally retards common sense. Hey Guys, the last few days have not been a picnic here. Enjoy the break from the Einstein stuff.


I don´t think this is what the OP meant and all car makers put this on the bottom of the invoice anyway.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

bimmer12safrad said:


> J:
> Here is the deception. It is placed in a lonely place at the bottom of the invoice in a line all by itself. This is on purpose so that by the time you finish looking over all the options, you a a little woozy and the eyes glance right over it. But the kicker is the cost; $695. which is the cost of get rich quick schemes and subliminally retards common sense. Hey Guys, the last few days have not been a picnic here. Enjoy the break from the Einstein stuff.


In that case, every body is subject to deceptive advertising because you see certain certain price, but when it is all settle, you see a sales tax added to the last line.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

iversonm said:


> Why this won't happen:
> 
> Every other car manufacturer has a destination charge. This, in effect, allows everyone to advertise prices $500-900 less than actual cost. It is customary, and is well understood in the marketplace. Why would one maker choose to advertise higher prices than everyone else?
> 
> The other reason this won't happen is that localized costs will hurt dealers far from the factory. If it costs $2000 to ship to CA, and $100 to ship to a dealer in SC, the dealers in CA will be stinking mad over all the people traveling to SC to get their car.


I agree it won't ever change, especially for the first reason. (I can't really believe the second reason would pose a problem, though. What person could get the car themself from SC to CA for cheaper, all costs in? The different charge would reflect the actual costs, so I doubt the difference would be quite so great)


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## iversonm (Nov 15, 2004)

Tanning machine said:


> What person could get the car themself from SC to CA for cheaper, all costs in?


What person would go to Europe to pick up a car when, all in, it is probably more expensive?

Yes, my example used fabricated numbers, as extreme as I could rationalize. (A car next to the plant vs. one that is a far away as possible.)

However, even if the difference is $100 over much shorter distances, it would not be well received by the dealers. They would rather you did *less* comparison shopping, and bought based on location. Any real or perceived price difference would work against this goal.

The National Automobile Dealer's Association is quite powerful, and holds considerable sway with the automakers.


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## Davisjl (Jun 6, 2006)

enkur said:


> I mean when I buy a 73" Mitsubishi DLP TV they dont list the MSRP + destination (although I am pretty sure the shipping on that monster isnt cheap)


Sure ... if you want to buy a 73" TV and load it yourself and take it home ... MSRP is what it is.

I dare to think of the shipping cost buying it via interent and having it shipped. Most Electronic stores also have a delivery fee if you want them to deliver it to your door.


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## Davisjl (Jun 6, 2006)

bimmer12safrad said:


> J:
> Here is the deception. It is placed in a lonely place at the bottom of the invoice in a line all by itself. This is on purpose so that by the time you finish looking over all the options, you a a little woozy and the eyes glance right over it. But the kicker is the cost; $695. which is the cost of get rich quick schemes and subliminally retards common sense. Hey Guys, the last few days have not been a picnic here. Enjoy the break from the Einstein stuff.


Then the only deception is the way you ask for your pricing.

Ask the dealer to quote you DRIVE OUT cost. I don't understand why anyone would ask for pring any other way. Let them add all the fees they want, the bottom line won't change.

How many other things do we buy where we get to see the dealers invoice first? Any idea on the markup of you last TV you bought was?


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

I nominate this for worst thread of the week.


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## mwagner1 (Aug 13, 2004)

A friend of mine called the local BMW dealer and was told that the D&H was now officially $775 for ALL new cars..BIG deal when you are paying $70K for a car....I bet the OP is one of those you hear about who goes into a dealer and insists on offering $300 over invoice and when refused, gripes to the world about greedy and evil CA's!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ja, alles sind gut!!!!

Cheers,


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## iversonm (Nov 15, 2004)

bmw949 said:


> Watch it pal, Adult entertainment is not to be discussed!!


Too late!


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

rumratt said:


> I nominate this for worst thread of the week.


????


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

At least one state I am aware of has taken action against car dealers who levy document fees on top of their advertised prices as a deceptive practice. The simple fact is that all car manufacturers do not assess a delivery charge on top of their advertised European Delivery price. Mercedes does not and for that reason alone it raises the question of why shoudn't BMW.


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## shingles (Jun 8, 2006)

Northcar said:


> At least one state I am aware of has taken action against car dealers who levy document fees on top of their advertised prices as a deceptive practice. The simple fact is that all car manufacturers do not assess a delivery charge on top of their advertised European Delivery price. Mercedes does not and for that reason alone it raises the question of why shoudn't BMW.


So would it make you feel better if BMW adjusted the ED price by the current delievery price and just not line item the cost?

What makes you think MB is shipping your car for free? Perhaps it is already IN THE PRICE of the car...


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

shingles said:


> So would it make you feel better if BMW adjusted the ED price by the current delievery price and just not line item the cost?
> 
> What makes you think MB is shipping your car for free? Perhaps it is already IN THE PRICE of the car...


I agree. I guess to make things right, BMW should just jack up $695 on the price. On dealer quotes $1695 over invoice instead of $1000.


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## bimmer12safrad (Feb 13, 2006)

shingles said:


> So would it make you feel better if BMW adjusted the ED price by the current delievery price and just not line item the cost?
> 
> What makes you think MB is shipping your car for free? Perhaps it is already IN THE PRICE of the car...


This has become a MB vs. BMW ED. The argument that because MB does not "charge" D/H therefore BMW should not is absurd. I guess then that BMW should do the taxi pick up, the one night hotel, the dinner..... And why not do the Volvo deal as well. Spira did a great piece on ED programs and provided the link here. Do the search. A comparison has to take the full programs into account. A good place to start would be MB MSRP Ed discount vs BMW discount.Cheers all!!


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

Northcar said:


> At least one state I am aware of has taken action against car dealers who levy document fees on top of their advertised prices as a deceptive practice.


Different issue, right? There the dealers are asserting that the document fees are to cover state registration (T, T, L fees). In fact, in many instances they are charging document fees well in excess of the actual amounts it costs for TTL. *That's* what's deceptive.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

I'm surprised that so many welcome handing over an extra $700 plus for an extra charge, regardless of what it is called. It came as a surprise to me that this was an added charge by BMW under its ED program when Mercedes apparently does not feel it is ethical to add it. For those picking up their cars at the Performance Center it is even more astouding there is no protest by those who don't even get any delivery for their delivery charge. For those of you handing out money so freely I'd be happy to open an account for my own favorite charity.:thumbs:


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

Tanning machine said:


> Different issue, right? There the dealers are asserting that the document fees are to cover state registration (T, T, L fees). In fact, in many instances they are charging document fees well in excess of the actual amounts it costs for TTL. *That's* what's deceptive.


Good question, but no the "deception" in the document fee case I am aware of as identified by the Attorney General is related to advertising one price and then having the consumer being quoted another price exclusive of actual costs that are not part of dealer profit (license, title and registration.) The state has no problem with license, title and registration being an add on at their actual cost. Likewise, if BMW is seen to be advertising European Delivery as one price which includes return shipping and then an additonal charge is added on top of that it could be viewed as deceptive. This becomes more an issue when a competitor such as Mercedes is not adding it and the typical consumer is shopping between competitors without appreciating that there is an extra charge being tacked onto the one's ED price and not the others. In effect it gives an unfair competitive advantage to the car manufacturer who promotes a ED price that sounds less than it really is. (And yes there is document preparation done by the dealer just as there is delivery being performed, so that alone is not determinative.)


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## Mac Daddy (Dec 27, 2006)

:jack:


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

*


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Northcar said:


>


?


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

*?*

 not  ; hence the * (I didn't catch that the green guy was going to stick out his tongue until it posted. All I wanted was a grin.


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