# Do you have brake induced jerk steer?



## Pat325i (Jul 17, 2002)

please post the tsb :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rwebbe (Jan 20, 2002)

*Jerk Brake Action*

TSB? Very interesting.


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## dtlee (Jan 12, 2002)

When I mention the twitching issue to my dealer, they replace both of the lower control arms. The twitch was gone for about three days but it came back. I hope there is a solution to this issue.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

The HACK said:


> *You know what BMW techs are good for.  Let your SCTS (SoCalTechSession) buddies diagnose it man, it could be as simple as road crowning or uneven pad deposit, or something more serious like a stuck brake piston. *


 They can plug your car into a computer. That's about it.


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

Here it is:

http://members.roadfly.com/vpwseah/torsional.PDF

I hope this is the right one. 
:bigpimp:


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

VinceTopasBlau3 said:


> *Here it is:
> http://members.roadfly.com/vpwseah/torsional.PDF
> I hope this is the right one.
> :bigpimp: *


Very funny Vince. It almost looks like a real one! :asshole:


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

That is a _real_ TSB from the latest TIS CD.



sp330i said:


> *Very funny Vince. It almost looks like a real one! :asshole: *


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

Hmmm. still very funny. It doesn't appear on my copy which is dated 12/02. The TIS you have indicated 01/01


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## Pat325i (Jul 17, 2002)

can anyone post the tsb that corrects the brake jerk ? What is the official fix for it? 

thanks :thumbup:


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

There doesn't seem to be an official fix. The typical fix is to put dampners on the front brakes. No thanks. :thumbdwn:

--SONET


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

Hrm...so somehow I have the time to fake a TSB and post that here. Now that's _funny_.

01/2001 indicates that the TSB was released for that month, not the version of my TIS.



sp330i said:


> *Hmmm. still very funny. It doesn't appear on my copy which is dated 12/02. The TIS you have indicated 01/01 *


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

VinceTopasBlau3 said:


> *Hrm...so somehow I have the time to fake a TSB and post that here. Now that's funny.
> 
> 01/2001 indicates that the TSB was released for that month, not the version of my TIS. *


Ooh you are DEVIOUS Hamster boy.  :angel:

How anyone immediately assume it's a fake document I don't understand...Do we really live in an age where EVERYTHING must be questioned for its authenticity?

sp330i, plug in the TSB number from the screen cap and see if it pops up. Vince has THE last version of the TIS available on CD, it IS possible that this was just added recently but I highly doubt it.


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

Vince said:


> *
> Hrm...so somehow I have the time to fake a TSB and post that here. Now that's funny.
> 
> 01/2001 indicates that the TSB was released for that month, not the version of my TIS.
> *


You never know on this board who is joking and who isn't. I thought the date was the date of the TSB release. I have 10/02 version. I've plugged both the 31 01 99 and the 34 01 98 numbers and the program can't find it. :dunno:



Hack said:


> *
> How anyone immediately assume it's a fake document I don't understand...Do we really live in an age where EVERYTHING must be questioned for its authenticity?
> *


Take a chill pill Hack. I thought a joke was underway... jeeeez. But to answer your question, yes, I think we do live in an age where everything must be questioned.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Here's another fake TSB for your amusement...

http://www.studio2321.com/carstuff/temp/brake_jerksteer.pdf


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

sp330i said:


> *You never know on this board who is joking and who isn't. I thought the date was the date of the TSB release. I have 10/02 version. I've plugged both the 31 01 99 and the 34 01 98 numbers and the program can't find it. :dunno:
> 
> ...snip*


You have to enter all 9 digits of the TSB number (including the numbers in parenthesis).


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

Thanks Hack for your needed assistance. The article is exactly what I need to get my dealer to take another look at the problem. I expected a brake bleed and new control arms might be the fix, but so far it has not been offered. Now I have what I need to get them to take action. :thumbup: 

My TIS must be out of date as I still can't find the article you mentioned :dunno:


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

Thanks Hack for the TIS. I will be heading over to my dealership to have them check this out. The last time I was in, they told me this was a "normal" characteristic of the car. I've driven loaners where this does not happen so it was frustrating the hell out of me.


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## powerdrift (May 21, 2002)

Ack said:


> *Thanks Hack for the TIS. I will be heading over to my dealership to have them check this out. The last time I was in, they told me this was a "normal" characteristic of the car. I've driven loaners where this does not happen so it was frustrating the hell out of me. *


Don't you just _love_ how dealerships makes abnormal things out to be normal when they don't want to do warranty work, but when you're out of warranty, they coincidentally find every single problem within minutes?


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## rearviewmirror (Apr 30, 2003)

This is a post I put on e46fanatics...what if anything has BMW done to fix this????




I drive primarily in stop-n-go traffic when to going to and from work. When I tap the brakes on my '02 330Ci the steering wheel shimmy's to the right and back abruptly about 1/2 to 1 inch. Keep in mind the braking is rock solid and there is no shaking or shimmying once harder pressure is applied, it is just the initial tap of the brakes. Anyway it has been in the shop 3x, the first time they replaced the tie rod bushings, no help, the second time they cleaned the pads and rotors to no avail. They are now calling the master techs of BMW NA which have admitted this was a known problem for e46's. One fix they proposed was to insert some devices in the braking system which would supposedly fix the problem but cause the pedal to travel another 1 to 2 inches to the floor. Ahhhhh, I am thinking that's not a very good fix. So I have had my car for 1 month and it has been in the 3x for this. I have it back now and the ticket remains open with them as they seek further guidance from BMW NA. Have any of you experienced this with your E46, to test just drive about 45 MPH and tap the brakes, watch if the steering wheel moves about 1/2 to 1 inch abruptly in either direction (If you apply too much pedal pressure quickly it won't do it, it has to be a tap). I took some other 330's out for drives at the dealership and they didn't do it, but it is confirmed that his IS a known problem @ BMW. My '01 325i didn't do it, and now I really miss that car. Any input from the member here would be great.


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## rearviewmirror (Apr 30, 2003)

SONET said:


> *There doesn't seem to be an official fix. The typical fix is to put dampners on the front brakes. No thanks. :thumbdwn:
> 
> --SONET *


They offered to install those on my car but said the pedal would travel 1 to 2 inches further to the floor. I was like WTF? That's not a fix...

still awaiting a real answer from BMW.....


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## rwebbe (Jan 20, 2002)

*I am gona wait*

After reading the sorry fixes for this problem I think it smart to leave things as they are. While it may be half broke, I prefer not to fix it half way. Mine does not simmy, but will puill one way or the other at times. I can live with it until it hits another car or something worse.


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: I am gona wait*



rwebbe said:


> *Mine does not simmy, but will puill one way or the other at times. I can live with it until it hits another car or something worse. *


Occassional pulling to one side or the other is a more an indication of alignment issues or road camber.

It doesn't sound to me like your issue is jerk steer. You may want to re-read the symptoms at the beginning of the post.


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## spedhere (May 1, 2003)

The E46 sport package has serious brakes, enough to cause the ABS to engage on just about any stop. I wonder if the ABS on/off is causing an uneven application of the front calipers under sudden/heavy brake loads. Anybody had this happen on dry, even pavement with everything warmed up?


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## rwebbe (Jan 20, 2002)

*Road or Alignment*

I can rule out alignment. Within last few months all four wheels checked for alignment and slight correction done by my Dealer. Slight pull left and right still continues at odd times but not consistantly. The most sensible ansmer is wide tires 205/50 X 17 plus slope or groove in roadway may cause this, as suggested by one of our members. It is not serious or bothersome enough to pursue the problem further at this time.If I lived in smow belt, I most certainly wiould be more prone to find the answer. The 330ci is a great drivers car and I am not interested in having a bandaid fix on brakes that are superb.


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## Bill325Ci (Jul 17, 2002)

spedhere said:


> *The E46 sport package has serious brakes, enough to cause the ABS to engage on just about any stop. I wonder if the ABS on/off is causing an uneven application of the front calipers under sudden/heavy brake loads. Anybody had this happen on dry, even pavement with everything warmed up? *


We mentioned the problem to our service tech. He said it was an ABS effect.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

I'm beginning to think I have the problem too...I never notice it, but the other day after seeing SONET's car do that I decided to check it out myself.

Sure enough, if my hands are not on the wheel and I stab the brakes the steering wheel jerks one way, mostly to the left but once in a while it'll jerk to the right. Funny thing is when both my hands are on the wheel I do not feel the steering wheel jerk at all...Perhaps because I keep a firm enough pressure on the wheel.

I surmise that it IS possible, that the rotational INERTIA of the wheels and the resultant dramatic change in inertia is causing the OPPOSITE of what FWD suffers from: Torque steer. I noticed that FWD cars usually torque steer the car to the right, while when I stab the brake it almost consistently jerk steers to the left. I'd have to test it out on more BMWs and other brands of vehicles...


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: Road or Alignment*



rwebbe said:


> *Slight pull left and right still continues at odd times but not consistantly. *


You still are not defining what this problemis about. Brakes that pull are indicative of your particular alignment settings in conjunction with road camber.

Twitch steering can be described as follows:

You stab the brakes and the steering wheel moves left about 2-5 degrees and then back right (or vice versa). Specific to this problem is that the steering wheel does not continue to pull in a particular direction like how you described it and your car does not necessarily change direction (pull to one side) due to the brakes being applied.

Please read the TSB posted at:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/e46TwitchSteer/

Interestingly enough, in my situation, if I attempt subsequent stabs immediately after the first stab (within a couple of seconds), the problem appears to dissapper, further supporting a minute amount of air within the system. If I wait ten seconds, the problem is back.


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

The HACK said:


> *I'm beginning to think I have the problem too...I never notice it, but the other day after seeing SONET's car do that I decided to check it out myself.*


I can't believe, that with your driving experience and attention to detail you've never noticed it. If its sporatic, Dan, you don't have it and I suspect in your case it is. Otherwise, you would have been  like the rest of us.

Funny, I re-read the TSB today and they specifically state that dampner valves should not be placed in cars with DSC. Mine has DSC and they installed them anyway. I'm glad I had them removed immediately thereafter. :yikes:


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## PunchIt (Dec 24, 2002)

*weight possibly a factor?*

Could it have anything to do with the amount of weight (people & placement) in the car? Mine pulls to the left with only me in the car. I haven't tried it with two people.
just a guess though.
DM


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: weight possibly a factor?*



PunchIt said:


> *Could it have anything to do with the amount of weight (people & placement) in the car? Mine pulls to the left with only me in the car. I haven't tried it with two people.
> just a guess though.
> DM *


This problem does not cause your car to pull to either side, it is simply a twitch in the steering wheel.


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## PunchIt (Dec 24, 2002)

*Both Problems*

I realized after reading Vince's TBS post that I have both problems mentioned in the TBS.

1. steering wheel vibration when applying brakes between 40-80mph

2. steering wheel twitch when stabbing the brakes.

I have a call and an email into my tech supervisor. Hoping to get the car looked at per those two TSBs.

I'll keep you posted.


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

The HACK said:


> *I'm beginning to think I have the problem too...I never notice it, but the other day after seeing SONET's car do that I decided to check it out myself.*


Sorry HACK! I hope it doesn't haunt you every time you drive your car! 

--SONET

PS Does Mrs. HACK's car have the same problem?


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## PunchIt (Dec 24, 2002)

*Re: Both Problems*



PunchIt said:


> *I realized after reading Vince's TBS post that I have both problems mentioned in the TBS.
> 
> 1. steering wheel vibration when applying brakes between 40-80mph
> 
> ...


Heard back from the dealer. She said one TSB only covers cars built till 02/01. Mine is an 03/01. The other TSB she said is no longer in the system...whatever that means.

This is the agreement I have with her:

Have the Foreman/head technician (Russ) take a test drive with me, and I'll show him the two issues._ If the TSB(s)'s solutions (the TSB(s) that BMW thinks only applies to 02/01 cars & the non active one) fix my problem(s), then the dealership will fix it under goodwill, and then possibly call BMWNA and tell them that the TSB should be extended to included at least cars that are built 03/01 if not longer.

And if the solution to the issue is not what the TSB(s) recommends, then the CPO warranty will be looked at to cover the fix._

However, the fix attempts mentioned in the TSB(s) should be looked at first, and should Russ or the technicians feel that those solutions will fix the problem(s), those solutions will then be applied.

I'm going in on Tuesday. I'll keep you all posted.


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## Pistolpete (Mar 25, 2003)

PunchIt said:


> Heard back from the dealer. She said one TSB only covers cars built till 02/01. Mine is an 03/01. The other TSB she said is no longer in the system...whatever that means.
> 
> This is the agreement I have with her:
> 
> ...


Any update? I went in a few weeks back with the same complaint and got the runaround about the tsb not applying. They suggested a wheel alignment, which I declined.


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## sp330i (Dec 26, 2001)

I finally had the TSB performed on my car even though as stated, BMW indicates it is expired and no longer in the system for reimbursement by BMW. It was performed as a result of me constantly asking my regional rep to step in after my local dealer didn't have an answer for the problem. The regonal rep went above and beyond in an attempt to fix a problem that has plagued my car from day one. The work was performed gratis with no guarantee that it would eliminate the problem.

I had new control am bushings installed and the brakes bled per the TSB. The symptoms of the problem have not been eliminated, however they are improved by about 50%.

It is my belief that this is one issue that BMW will continue to throw their hands in the air, scratch their heads and say "oh well" we can't fix it and move on.


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## drd_330i (Jul 14, 2003)

Plaz said:


> No, but I got cut off last week on the freeway and had to slam on my brakes and swerve...
> 
> ...I guess that was "jerk-induced brake steer."


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: too funny


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## guitarman (Mar 29, 2004)

*BMW ABS faults*

TWITCH FELT IN STEERING WHEEL ON RAPID BRAKE APPLICATION

MODELS AFFECTED: E46 not equipped with DSC.
FAULT: When the steering wheel is held very lightly with one hand and the brakes given a quick tap, it may twitch slightly once. There is no disruption of stability of the car and doesn't pull to either side.

CAUSE: Could be from having unequal amounts of toe-in on each front wheel or because of a very slight time difference in the build up of pressure in each front brake caliper.

SOLUTION: If the alignment has been corrected, you can install a dampener to modify the brake pressure build up curve.(If the vehicle is equipped with DSC a dampener can't be installed because it will affect the DSC operation).

http://www.bba-reman.com/bmwabsfaults.htm


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

Thanks for sharing this info. I just wanted to add that people who have had this 'fix' are usually unhappy with the resulting loss in brake pedal feel.

--SONET



guitarman said:


> TWITCH FELT IN STEERING WHEEL ON RAPID BRAKE APPLICATION
> 
> MODELS AFFECTED: E46 not equipped with DSC.
> FAULT: When the steering wheel is held very lightly with one hand and the brakes given a quick tap, it may twitch slightly once. There is no disruption of stability of the car and doesn't pull to either side.
> ...


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## FUN2DRV (Aug 27, 2003)

I had this problem in my 01 330Ci for a long time and it used to drive me crazy!!! The dealer thought that it was a warped rotor, but they were just fine. One thing that I tried and would sometimes work for a while was to do a couple of hard brakings. That seemed to eliminate the problem for a while, but it would always come back. Reading this thread just brought back some bad memories about my old car. I really loved that car, but little things like this would drive me insane!!! 

Good luck on getting this solved!


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## JRJOHNKC (Jun 6, 2004)

PunchIt said:


> Yeah, I have this problem. I notice it more when the pavement is sloped (for water drainage) I haven't really noticed it on a totally flat piece of road.


Same here...


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