# 2005 - Best easy wax



## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

Haven't posted for awhile.

Have a black 745. Needed to park under a tree recently and got about 4 good-sized sap droppings that dried. Went at the car with some of the bug/tar remover and am certain have removed some wax. At this point I'm assuming will need a good waxing - haven't waxed it ever, since got it new 10 months ago.

I have read posts of opinions of waxes from previous years. Please tell me from recent experiences best/easiest wax to apply. I want to do it myself and I am unfortunately not too young anymore.

I can purchase at one of the local stores Mothers or Macguires. Does anyone recommend either, and which product, or perhaps Zymol or something else.

Thanks.


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## Flex (Feb 23, 2004)

rocky said:


> Haven't posted for awhile.
> 
> Have a black 745. Needed to park under a tree recently and got about 4 good-sized sap droppings that dried. Went at the car with some of the bug/tar remover and am certain have removed some wax. At this point I'm assuming will need a good waxing - haven't waxed it ever, since got it new 10 months ago.
> 
> ...


Rocky,

Here's a few tips.

1) Try Soveran Wax by Pinnacle. Good news - it is easy to apply. You don't need to wait for it to dry. It's a simple apply and wipe in seconds. Bad news - It can get expensive. For example, a paste cannister alone has a list price of $70 per the Pinnacle website.

I bought a kit from Pinnacle, which included this paste wax. Based on experience, I would recommend it. It really does work well, IMO. In fact, I just applied a wax coat within the last week. This product really amazes me...it really brings out the color of the vehicle, especially dark colors (as advertised). In my case, this applies since my 3 has the Imola Red color. Brings a big smile to my face when I see that shine.

Here are a few links.

http://www.pinnaclewax.com/

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71078&highlight=souveran+wax

2) Try P21S. I have never used this product. But, there are many folks here who have had positive experiences. Also, supposedly, PS21S does not leave a residue or mark up the body trims (assuming they're black in color). This may be something worthwhile for you to look into considering you have a black car.

Definitely, do a search here on these 2 products as well as other products. There's an endless amount of information.

Good luck and happy waxing!

Flex


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

rocky said:


> Haven't posted for awhile.
> 
> Have a black 745. Needed to park under a tree recently and got about 4 good-sized sap droppings that dried. Went at the car with some of the bug/tar remover and am certain have removed some wax. At this point I'm assuming will need a good waxing - haven't waxed it ever, since got it new 10 months ago.
> 
> ...


This may sound strange, but if you have any motorcycle shops around (especially Harley Davidson shops which all carry it) they sell the best easy wax I know of that can be bought retail. It's called *S100 *and is actually the exact same wax made by the same company as *P21S *mentioned by Flex, but P21S is marketed for cars, sells for $30 to $35 and as far as I know it isn't sold in any retail stores. They market S100 for motorcycles and sell it for $15, it goes on and comes off like butter, can be used on molding too and leaves no white residue. You may have to look on line or in the yellow pages for a shop near you and give them a call to make sure they have it, but it will be far better than any of the waxes you'll find retail anywhere else and it's a big jar that will last a long time. I found the address of a Harley store on line and bought my father a jar a few weeks ago and he loves it. :thumbup:


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## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

STOP ! Before you wax or do anything to protect or seal the car please BE SURE that you have completely cleaned the tar, sap or bird bombs from the paint. It may actually appear that they are gone but if you look very closely you may see a slight haze of residue (espcially with bird droppings). This is called etching and occurs due to acid in bird excrement (I know, very pleasant subject). But its important that you do a thorough cleaning and then let the paint breathe for several days, possibly up to two weeks and this etching will dissappear on its own. After that, seal...protect....and wax to your heart's content. Good luck !

You might want to check this thread as well.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70424&highlight=bird


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

*re: bird poop*



jetstream23 said:


> ... But its important that you do a thorough cleaning and then let the paint breathe for several days, possibly up to two weeks and this etching will dissappear on its own. ...http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70424&highlight=bird


 Zaino Z-PC takes care of bird etching in 3 minutes. You won't even know it was ever there.

Also, people are tempted to remove dried bird poop with a water-dampened towel. But the water just reactivates the acid. Instead use some vinegar (I keep a 2 oz. atomizer in my car). Spray it on the poop and onto a disposable microfiber cloth before removal (use the cheap microfibers from Walmart cut into 5" squares). Half the time, it doesn't even leave an etching behind.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

Just to be clear, I wasn't asking about bird droppings - it was tree sap. Seems to be all off now and I'm looking for a good wax.

The easiest for me to purchase is Mother's, Macguires, or Zymol. Of these, which one would be best, or are these not to be considered at all, and is there another readily available one to consider.


Thanks.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

rocky said:


> Just to be clear, I wasn't asking about bird droppings - it was tree sap. Seems to be all off now and I'm looking for a good wax.
> 
> The easiest for me to purchase is Mother's, Macguires, or Zymol. Of these, which one would be best, or are these not to be considered at all, and is there another readily available one to consider.
> 
> Thanks.


 Pick any of them. They're all good brands.

Quite frankly, if you really haven't waxed the car in 10 months, there's probably not much point worrying about the spot where you cleaned the sap, unless you're planning to do the enture car now (unclear from your post). I doubt the car has much, if any, wax left on it anyway. Carnuba waxes only last a month or two. Polymer based waxes last longer (3-6 months). But nothing I know of holds up for 10 months.

If you want to start from scratch and protect your car with a good polymer based system, I recommend Zaino. A search will reveal plenty of info and recommendations about Zaino & other products.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

I was planning to do the entire car now with wax- but I'm at the point in my life that I have many things to do and not enough time, like everyone. So, please, can someone tell me the "best" choice for reasonably easy application, and lasting results, without going into a costly $100+ multi-step product. Under $30 and 4 hours would be reasonable - possibly two steps at most

Thanks.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Flex said:


> Also, supposedly, PS21S does not leave a residue or mark up the body trims (assuming they're black in color).


Not true. It's a carnauba-based wax, and will stain trim like any other.


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

Plaz said:


> Not true. It's a carnauba-based wax, and will stain trim like any other.


"P21S Carnauba Wax is a hand-poured blend of German waxes, proprietary ingredients and pure Brazilian Carnauba wax. The result is a wax that goes on and comes off with incredible ease. There's virtually no chalky, powder residues and it won't stain rubber, plastic, or vinyl trim moldings."
http://www.properautocare.com/p21spastewax.html


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

1Dreamer said:



> "P21S Carnauba Wax is a hand-poured blend of German waxes, proprietary ingredients and pure Brazilian Carnauba wax. The result is a wax that goes on and comes off with incredible ease. There's virtually no chalky, powder residues and it won't stain rubber, plastic, or vinyl trim moldings."
> http://www.properautocare.com/p21spastewax.html


I don't care what the site that sells it says, my trim is stained, and I've only used P21S.

Great wax, but not non-staining.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The best EASY thing to use is Rejex. Even clyde is willing to use it.


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## seadzz (Jun 5, 2005)

If you value you'r time and do not want to rewax every month stay away from the natural materials and consider the synthetics. One of the better ones is Klasse and is a two step process. Cleaner then a Sealer. Goes on real quick by hand and comes off same way...fast. Will not stain your black trim with the white crud many cheapo KMart waxes do.

You will need to mail order it (or use the internet) and a search of this froum will give you tons of info.

If you are bent on it you can layer a coat of natural wax (I use the P100 bought at a Harley shop) and the car will look like $1,000,000

good luck.

sdz


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

You guys don't seem to listen, rocky doesn't want any multi-step mail order waxes but something he can get locally for under 30 bucks. He basically looks for easy to use cleaner wax. I think the best product for him would be Klasse All-In-One but I doubt he can find it locally. 

Rocky, if you can find full line of Mother's products then look for Reflections or FX line, both synthetics with some cleaning properties. If you use the additional spray waxes available in each line you can go 3 months between waxings. Another good alternative is Mother's California Gold Carnauba cleaner wax or Meguiar's Hi-tech yellow carnauba.

P21S is a great choice as well and is the easiest wax I've ever used, never stained my trim.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> P21S is a great choice as well and is the easiest wax I've ever used, never stained my trim.


I agree.

P21s goes on easy, buffs off really easily, and leaves very little residue on the trim. A excellent Carnauba wax, the only downside is that the finish lasts only around a month.


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## konrad330xi (Aug 25, 2004)

Although I haven't used a number of the products mentioned, I agree with F1Crazy. Klasse All-in-One gives pretty good results with what I consider very little effort. Following it with Klasse Sealant Glaze even makes it better...I'm three months in, it still looks good, and water beads nicely.


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

rocky said:


> I was planning to do the entire car now with wax- but I'm at the point in my life that I have many things to do and not enough time, like everyone. So, please, can someone tell me the "best" choice for reasonably easy application, and lasting results, without going into a costly $100+ multi-step product. Under $30 and 4 hours would be reasonable - possibly two steps at most
> 
> Thanks.


By far the answer is Zaino. It goes on easier than a wax. It lasts for at least 6 months, oleaves a great shine - and it protects really well. It's not very expensive either.
www.zainostore.com


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## avalys (Oct 14, 2003)

I second (or third, or whatever) the vote for Zaino. You don't need the full kit, just get the ZFX and the Z-2 (will cost around $40 with shipping, and you'll get a free cotton applicator). Apply one or two coats, and you're set for 3-6 months (and the car will look great). Two coats should take you about 2-3 hours.

If you want to get fancy, buy the Z-18 claybar to remove embedded contaminants from the paint - it should only take about an hour to go over the whole car, and it makes an _incredible_ difference in how well the Zaino bonds, and how smooth the paint feels. Also, the Z-7 car wash helps maintain the layer of wax without having to reapply it.

You can certainly get stuff locally, but the synthetic products like Zaino last a lot longer and protect better than what you'll buy at your local Pep Boys.

http://www.zainostore.com


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

You should be able to buy Klasse at your BMW Center. I've seen it at the last two service/parts departments I've visited and their price was pretty reasonable, if I remember correctly.


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

Plaz said:


> I don't care what the site that sells it says, my trim is stained.


 Not just what the site says. What the product is known for and 3 other people in this thread alone have agreed it doesn't stain. I stick with sealant, but I got some for my father's car and it didn't stain his trim either, nor does it stain my nextdoor neighbor's Porsche. That's all he uses and he swears by it. Not sure why it stained yours, but you're the only person I've ever heard to have that issue. :dunno: Not doubting you at all. Just saying it's odd.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Since you already have Meguiar's swirl remover I'd use it but only on really bad spots.

I think you would do yourself a big favor if you ordered Klasse AIO. Don't bother with any other product, this one will do it all. Buy one of these big foam applicators made by Viking, they are the most comfortable ones, and few microfiber towels to buff and you're set.


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## guitarman (Mar 29, 2004)

Here's another vote for Klasse AIO. This stuff goes on easy, comes off easy, and the results are awesome. Here's a picture I took yesterday after washing my car with Meguiar's Gold Class Car Wash. The Klasse has been on for a few weeks and it shines better than new.


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## seadzz (Jun 5, 2005)

As I mentioned in one of the earlier posts on this topic Klasse AIO and SG is the best way to go imho. I put it on two months ago and after 60 days of tropical rain here in southern FL it still beads like the first day. Easy on easy off is the nice part plus doing it by hand is possible even for an old fart like me.

Only downside is you will need to order it from a dealer on the net but this has an upside in you can beat sales tax if you order from out of state.

enjoy,

sdz


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Old?*



seadzz said:


> As I mentioned in one of the earlier posts on this topic Klasse AOI and SG is the best way to go imho. I put it on two months ago and after 60 days of tropical rain here in southern FL it still beads like the first day. Easy on easy off is the nice part plus doing it by hand is possible even for an old fart like me.
> 
> Only downside is you will need to order it from a dealer on the net but this has an upside in you can beat sales tax if you order from out of state.
> 
> ...


You said the magic word...

I'm starting to feel the age.

So, is it possible I can buy this Klasse at a BMW dealer and approximately how long to put this on? Also, did you use a foam pad, as suggested above?

Thanks.


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## konrad330xi (Aug 25, 2004)

rocky, you're probably a youngster compared to me...I've been feeling my age seemingly forever.

Your dealer may carry it, mine didn't. I ordered it from Herrington's (not an auto place), and got it in about four days.

It takes me about 40 minutes to wash and dry my car, and it takes me a lot less time than that to use the AOI. It's just wipe on, wipe off, you don't wait for it to dry.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

rocky, you can find Klasse and a lot of info about it here: http://www.properautocare.com/kla-16.html

Klasse Sealant Glaze produces nice results but I didn't like the application that much. I feel that you'd love Menzerna High Gloss Acrylic Shield. Use it to increase gloss and rejuvenate AIO: http://www.properautocare.com/mehiglacsh.html


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Great info - yet what about tree sap*

I can't get over how informative the people in this forum are. Great info.

Yet another question, what is best way to get rid of the tree sap?

I have seen following:
"hot towel method" - seems reasonable
mineral spirits or nailpolish remover - I'd be afriad oftaking off the finish
corn starch
anything else?

Thanks!


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

rocky said:


> I can't get over how informative the people in this forum are. Great info.
> 
> Yet another question, what is best way to get rid of the tree sap?


FRESH tree sap? I just use a QD. Anything less than a week should come off in a wash. Over that- baked on for a month or so  - you'll need a clay bar IF you get it off. Thats one of the reasons for frequent washing. Keep that tree sap and bird crap from etching.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Qd?*

Sorry, I'm a newbie to this forum.

What is a QD - sorry if my question is too mundane.

Actually, sap has been on a few days and has not come off with a wash and Bug and Tar remover does next to nothing.

Do I go the clay bar route or is there an easier way? If clay bar, which one?


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

rocky said:


> Sorry, I'm a newbie to this forum.
> 
> What is a QD - sorry if my question is too mundane.
> Do I go the clay bar route or is there an easier way? If clay bar, which one?


Rocky, do you mind if I ask, why are you against ordering online? The best products available (and often the best prices) are available by ordering online. Do you just feel nervous posting credit card info online?

As for the claybar - I'm not 100% sure if it will remove tree sap. It will do wonders for your paint though. I've used the Zaino claybar on my car using car wash soap mixed with water as a lubricant for teh clay. Today I helped a friend with his 323, and we needed a claybar so we went to Autozone and purchased the ClayMagic Clay bar (it came with a bottle of lubricant). I found the claymagic to be stickier, but I think I liked the Zaino version better. Anyway the Claymagic is 9.99 at Autozone for 1 bar and a bottle of lubricant. You can probably get 3-4 car's worth out of one bar.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

rocky said:


> Sorry, I'm a newbie to this forum.
> 
> What is a QD - sorry if my question is too mundane.
> 
> ...


It's ok- sorry for going all 'seasoned' on the new guy. QD is a quick detailer- like Zaino #6 or Mequires Final Inspection.

Have you felt the sap to see if you can feel the bumps on top of the paint? It takes a very light touch, but you may be able to lightly glide your finger over the paint to feel any sap bumps. If you cant feel them, they may be etched into the paint.

As for a clay bar (cb? :angel: ) You may choose what you like. I buy the $10 Clay Magic from AutoZone. I *did* just buy a Sonus kit to try it out. Supposed to be less agressive. Come on back here and read up on claying tips before you get at the clay barring.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Tree sap - yes*

This is definitely tree sap, and not tiny bumps. It is still in a few places and seems to adhered to the paint. The car is usually inside but I needed to leave it on the street for a few nights, so I know this is when it happened. With one car I have, left it on so long that it seemed to lift off a tiny section of clear coat. I have already tried bug and tar remover, and a hot towel to no avail. I want to try something non-abrasive since I tend to "overdo" things I've been told. Should I try the clay bar and is there any chance at all this will take off the clear coat?


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## seadzz (Jun 5, 2005)

If you keep the claybar well lubed using plenty of liquid and use it in the shade with only light pressure you should not have any worries about removing your clear coat. The claybar only removes the "high spots" anyway so not to worry.

One word of caution: If the clay bar drops out of your hand and hits the driveway throw it away! Do not be tempted to use it since it could pick up a dirt partical or two and they you have sandpaper on your hands. What I do is after buying a claybar take a pocket knife and cut it up into small chunks. This way when I drop it (always happens) you don't throw the whole thing in the trash.

There is a FAQ on using claybars and it is really spot-on.....worth looking for.

sdz


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

rocky said:


> This is definitely tree sap, and not tiny bumps. It is still in a few places and seems to adhered to the paint. The car is usually inside but I needed to leave it on the street for a few nights, so I know this is when it happened. With one car I have, left it on so long that it seemed to lift off a tiny section of clear coat. I have already tried bug and tar remover, and a hot towel to no avail. I want to try something non-abrasive since I tend to "overdo" things I've been told. Should I try the clay bar and is there any chance at all this will take off the clear coat?


Clay bars were developed to remove paint overspray at paint shops and only later found their way into detailing world. It would be my first step in trying to remove tree sap since if done right (very easy) it is completely safe to your paint.

Also read this article and a related one about cleaning with clay.


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## MikeCTM2 (Jun 21, 2005)

*zaino system*

zaino is the obvious choice i think. i switched to zaino after recently learning about it. it is extremely easy. unbelievably easy complared to what i used to do. just pour two ounces of Z2 into the 2 ounce bottle, add 5 drops, shake for a minute, then apply to car w/ applicator in a horizontal/straight line fashion. give it fifteen minutes, or however long to dry, and wipe/buff off.

after i did this i couldn't believe the shine. it gives a rich, classy, BMW worthy, shine. it looks like you just rolled out paying big money from a pro detailer. i'm justing waiting now to see how long it lasts. evidently, for 6 months.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

seadzz said:


> If you keep the claybar well lubed using plenty of liquid


Ditto.. Another technique that F1 and have used is VEY soapy water as a lubricant to the clay. Use ab twice the amount of soap in the directions and only ab a gallon of water. Very slick and no clay lube residue! :thumbup:


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

PropellerHead said:


> Ditto.. Another technique that F1 and have used is VEY soapy water as a lubricant to the clay. Use ab twice the amount of soap in the directions and only ab a gallon of water. Very slick and no clay lube residue! :thumbup:


 If you use a good quality car shampoo you don't even need to add extra soap. If it isn't lubracating enough for claybar, then it probably isn't lubricating enough for lifting dirt off when washing normally either. I use a bucket of Zaino Z7 shampoo when I claybar, but I just mix it up as usual.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

MikeCTM2 said:


> zaino is the obvious choice i think. i switched to zaino after recently learning about it. it is extremely easy. unbelievably easy complared to what i used to do. just pour two ounces of Z2 into the 2 ounce bottle, add 5 drops, shake for a minute, then apply to car w/ applicator in a horizontal/straight line fashion. give it fifteen minutes, or however long to dry, and wipe/buff off.
> 
> after i did this i couldn't believe the shine. it gives a rich, classy, BMW worthy, shine. it looks like you just rolled out paying big money from a pro detailer. i'm justing waiting now to see how long it lasts. evidently, for 6 months.


For many, myself included, Zaino is the ultimate product but not so in this situation. Rocky has to deal with swirls and other paint imperfections but Zaino doesn't have any cleaning properties so additional steps would be needed. Zaino will only amplify swirls on black cars and Z5 is not much help. I'm sure Zaino PC would deal with problem areas but it doesn't offer any protection so it deasn't apply in this situation since we're looking for 1 step product.


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## MikeCTM2 (Jun 21, 2005)

i see true true i'm just lovin the Zaino results. i'm sitting here dyin to do more zaino but the sun is out. i just went outside between postings and, re-read the zaino instructions. they say it can be applied in the sun, but on a cool surface if i recall right. I keep a BMW cover on the auto and i know the surface isn't going to be completely cool. i wander if it's okay to apply zaino in these circumstances, or if i have to wait for the couple hours of shade before the sun goes down.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Stoner's Tarminator? and wax/clean*

Someone recommended Stoner's Tarminator, to use to take off sap. Any experience by anyone with this?

I still have a few sap spots I must remove before wax/cleaning. My approach would be:
wash with Mother's Gold
remove sap with clay bar or something else 
use Klasse AIO using foam applicator (by Viking) (if I can find it locally) or s-100 from Harley shop
if no Klasse or s-100 - Mother's or Meguiar's products (as recommended here)
(cross my fingers that swirl marks not too noticeable after this)
if I still have swirl marks, can I remove them after the wax/cleaner?


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## seadzz (Jun 5, 2005)

I would tell ya to avoid using the S100 (stuff from Harley shops) only because it has a very limited lifetime. It is a natural wax made from things growing in the jungle. Great for putting on top of Klasse or perhaps a show car but not great for a daily driver UNLESS you do not mind putting it on once a month.

go here and read the info on natural and synthetic waxes it will make things real clear.

http://www.autogeek.net/carwax.html


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

rocky said:


> if I still have swirl marks, can I remove them after the wax/cleaner?


Yes, you can go after the swirls later on, any polish will immediately remove wax.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Klasse - anyone have a phone #?*

OK. I think I'm convinced to go with the Klasse AIO. Before I order it, I want to really see if someone locally (possibly a dealer) or detail shop may carry it. Yes, I'm stubborn and want to see if I can buy it locally. If someone has a Klasse product, can you please post a phone # for Klasse, and I can call to see if they can tell me if anyone sells it locally.

Also, who has best price for it, including shipping, if I end up ordering it?

Probably will start with Mother's Gold wash (have it already)
Clay magic kit
Klasse AIO
Anything after this - sealer?

Also, what to use for the brake dust on the wheels?

Thanks.


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## seadzz (Jun 5, 2005)

http://concoursdirect.com/klasse.html

or

http://www.autogeek.net/klasseallinone.html

With autogeek you can get 10% off by using Coupon code= clubmember

good luck and let us know how you make out.

sdz


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## guitarman (Mar 29, 2004)

I noticed that the autogeek website suggests using Klasse AIO to wash the car. Anyone try this?


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Using swirl remover AFTER Klasse?*

I spoke to someone at "properautocare" which sells Klasse. He suggested using Swirl Remover (Meguiar's, 3M, whatever) AFTER using KLasse AIO rather than before, since as a filler it will fill in the edges after AIO does the cleaning.

What does everyone think?


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

rocky said:


> I spoke to someone at "properautocare" which sells Klasse. He suggested using Swirl Remover (Meguiar's, 3M, whatever) AFTER using KLasse AIO rather than before, since as a filler it will fill in the edges after AIO does the cleaning.
> 
> What does everyone think?


Thats interesting SMR must be all fillers. 
AIO would likely remover the fillers so you wouldn't want to use it after the SMR.

I would put some type of wax on top as a last step.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Klasse shelf life*

Does this Klasse AIO have a shelf life? I'm wondering what size to get, assuming I have 2 cars to do, and will try to do this every 6 months. Also, "propercarcare" said they have a free guide they will give you when ordering any size Klasse which is usually part of the "kit" for Klasse. Is this worth getting and do all of the retailers include this?

I can get the s-100 wax locally at motorcycle shops. Should I use this over the Klasse?

If you hadn't noticed, I tend to ask a bunch of questions, once I get started. It's part of my nature and from what I've see, members of this forum seem very like-minded in their quest for excellence in detailing and doing what is best.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

rocky said:


> Does this Klasse AIO have a shelf life? I'm wondering what size to get, assuming I have 2 cars to do, and will try to do this every 6 months. Also, "propercarcare" said they have a free guide they will give you when ordering any size Klasse which is usually part of the "kit" for Klasse. Is this worth getting and do all of the retailers include this?
> 
> I can get the s-100 wax locally at motorcycle shops. Should I use this over the Klasse?
> 
> If you hadn't noticed, I tend to ask a bunch of questions, once I get started. It's part of my nature and from what I've see, members of this forum seem very like-minded in their quest for excellence in detailing and doing what is best.


AIO shelf life should be 3-4 years I guess, as long as it doesn't mold, remember to shake well.

Sure guides are always helpful I think I read mine.

Yes put the S-100 over the AIO.


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## guitarman (Mar 29, 2004)

Artslinger said:


> AIO shelf life should be 3-4 years I guess, as long as it doesn't mold, remember to shake well.
> 
> Sure guides are always helpful I think I read mine.
> 
> Yes put the S-100 over the AIO.


What is the advantage of putting the S-100 over the AIO? Wouldn't a layer or two of the High Gloss Sealant Glaze offer more protection and shine?


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

guitarman said:


> What is the advantage of putting the S-100 over the AIO? Wouldn't a layer or two of the High Gloss Sealant Glaze offer more protection and shine?


Carnauba waxes add to the shine, depth and richness of the finish especially on dark colored cars.

"What is Klasse?
Klasse is a synthetic wax. To my knowledge, Klasse is the original two-step paint sealant system. The first formulation was released in 1969. It was a breakthrough admixing polyethylen carnauba wax replacement system. Through the years, Klasse has evolved with many improvements. The first major change came in 1986, when Klasse was modified from its original formula to use the latest polyethylene-acry compound technology. Between 1991 and 1996, the chemists made incremental improvements to improve durability by more than 30% and U.V. protection by 100%.

There are two products in the Klasse system. Klasse All-In-One is a combination cleaner and sealant in one, whereas Klasse Sealant Glaze is a pure sealant (no cleaning or polishing properties). Klasse All-In-One is intended to be used as a seasonal cleaner-wax, and as a pre-step to using Klasse Sealant Glaze. If your paint is in new or like-new condition, Klasse All-In-One will help you keep it that way. Klasse Sealant Glaze provides additional sealant protection and a deeper, high gloss finish. As a pure sealant, multiple coats of Klasse Sealant Glaze can be applied to improve the final finish." - autopia-carcare.com


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I've had a bottle of AIO at least 4 years and it still looks and smells like the moment I got it. 

Swirl Mark Remover is not all fillers, it has abrasivess that will remove AIO so use it after clay and before AIO if you want AIO protection. I know you don't want to spend a lot of time or energy doing this so just use SMR on bad spots then treat entire car with AIO.

I think you should skip Klasse Sealant Glaze and if you want more shine than AIO provides alone just put a coat of S100 on top. S100 is so much easier to apply than SG and looks better on black IMO. If you're very concerned that you won't get enough protection without SG then just apply S100 after 3 months. For SG to look good and protect for 6 months you'd have to put more than 1 coat and it means additional day for each coat, S100 is easier. I haven't seen much difference between AIO+S100 and AIO+SG+S100 and I've done both multiple times.

The free guide that comes with a kit can be found on their website (almost word for word), look at Klasse products and application tips.


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

F1Crazy said:


> I've had a bottle of AIO at least 4 years and it still looks and smells like the moment I got it.
> 
> Swirl Mark Remover is not all fillers, it has abrasivess that will remove AIO so use it after clay and before AIO if you want AIO protection. I know you don't want to spend a lot of time or energy doing this so just use SMR on bad spots then treat entire car with AIO.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% with the analysis here and think what he suggests will do the job you want with the least amount of work. Swirl removers remove swirls with mild abrasives rather than just mask them with fillers and I'd think swirl remover applied after AIO would remove the sealant in AIO. I've never heard anyone recommend that swirl removers or any other paint prep product be applied after AIO. Also, your car is only 10 months old and putting in a lot more work isn't going to yield dramatic results beyond what you'll get with AIO and S100 which are two top products that also happen to be very easy to work with.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Clay Magic - will it take care of the sap?*

OK. I think I know direction I'll be going in concerning detailing approach.

The only real unknown now is how to definitively get rid of the sap. There are still about 2 or 3 small marks that I haven't been able to remove yet after trying the Bug/Tar remover and a hot towel., and just rubbing with cloth.

Will the Clay Bar get rid of the sap? I have found it locally. I really don't want to use mineral spirits or any kind of real solvent. If used with PLENTY of lubricant will the clay bar be safe? Sometimes I tend to overdo things and make things worse.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Swirl Mark Remover has fillers, so if you will be using AIO on top of the SMR you will lose some of the swirl hiding properties of the SMR, the AIO is a cleaner and should remove the fillers. 

The best thing to do would be to skip the SMR and use a machine polish to minimize the swirls before the AIO.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Try clay bar first, it is safe and easy to do. I don't think you should fear mineral spirits that much, your paint will not be affected, just use it like the guy in article suggested.


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Mineral Spirits or nail polish remover for tree sap*

Yes, I read the article about using mineral spirits or nail polish remover to take off tree sap. Yet, looking at things logically, doesn't it make sense that if these are used to remove or thin paint or nail polish, they would in fact do the same thing to an automotive paint?


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*SMR - Before or after AIO?*



Artslinger said:


> Swirl Mark Remover has fillers, so if you will be using AIO on top of the SMR you will lose some of the swirl hiding properties of the SMR, the AIO is a cleaner and should remove the fillers. The best thing to do would be to skip the SMR and use a machine polish to minimize the swirls before the AIO.





F1Crazy said:


> Swirl Mark Remover is not all fillers, it has abrasivess that will remove AIO so use it after clay and before AIO if you want AIO protection


.



1Dreamer said:


> I agree 100% with the analysis here and think what he suggests will do the job you want with the least amount of work. Swirl removers remove swirls with mild abrasives rather than just mask them with fillers and I'd think swirl remover applied after AIO would remove the sealant in AIO. I've never heard anyone recommend that swirl removers or any other paint prep product be applied after AIO.


.

I see this posts saying if I use SMR after AIO, I will lose the AIO, while other posts say I will lose the SMR fillers. Now, I'm definitely getting confused. What to do?


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

You don't want fillers, you want your swirls gone! 3M SMR has IMO more fillers than Meguiar's one and sometimes I used alcohol spritz to make sure the fillers were gone so I could inspect the paint again for swirls. You have a fairly new car and if it wasn't abused you don't have severe swirls. I think treating them with SMR, even by hand, will greatly diminish their appearance. *Do it before AIO.*

Your paint is much tougher than you think, wiping it with mineral spirits in a spot or two won't do any damage. If you are still worried you can try 3M wax remover (I don't remember full name, comes in aerosol can), it's also a solvent that works on wax, tar and should work on tree sap as well. I got it at Wal-Mart in automotive section where they have auto paints, any auto parts store should have it as well.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

rocky said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> I see this posts saying if I use SMR after AIO, I will lose the AIO, while other posts say I will lose the SMR fillers. Now, I'm definitely getting confused. What to do?


I wouldn't use it with AIO but that is just my preference, from what I have read SMR does have fillers. Like I mentioned before I would use a machine polish in place of SMR.

Using SMR before AIO and the AIO will remove some if not all of the SMR fillers because it is a cleans and polishes. Using SMR with its fine abrasive after the AIO would remove the acrylic sealant of AIO.

But do what you want AIO after SMR will not do any damage to the finish, and SMR does have abrasives so it will reduce the swirling, you get better results using a buffer with the SMR.


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