# 335d driver test drove 328d and 535d



## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

I would have like to have driven that Z4. There's a guy on my ride who definitely feels the rush driving a Z4 - not sure of the vintage but probably about that age. He doesn't have a DINAN badge on but even so he drives it like he means it. But whatever. I'm not out for war - just expressing my views. Everyone will make up their own minds about BMW's diesel offerings.

Very unscientific sampling, but both the 335d and the 328d seem to generate a fair bit of polarized opinions featuring ardent lovers and presumed (or real) haters. Not so the 535d. Maybe just not enough folks who own them, or maybe just very satisfied drivers. And to be fair there are aspects of the 335d I do NOT like. The prospects of having serious emissions problems for one (my SCR tank has already had to be replaced on the '10), ergo my general urge to test drive a bunch of cars in case I need to flee. But even there the 328d may not be immune, since it uses a DEF system that is similar in concept if not in many of the particulars.


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

m6pwr said:


> The only BMW that ever gave me a rush, far, far beyond the 335d or even the V8 M3, was the Z4 with DINAN Stage II with 7 spd dct, 416 lb ft torque 1300 rpm - 5000 rpm.


:thumbup:

Have you ever seen the reaction of a baby being tossed in the air? It is fear/exhilaration/laughter all at once. That is the only way I can describe driving my brother's EVOMS Stage V 997 Turbo. 750HP on race gas and 10.7 in the 1/4 mile because it is impossible to get a decent 1st to 2nd gear change in the manual because it happens so quickly. :yikes:

And yet I still love the oomph of the 335d.

All things are relative.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

m6pwr said:


> Something is at work here. Not sure what exactly, but I don't think it's objectivity. The 328d it seems has become the butt-boy of the diesel forum. Me thinks that some of us perceive it as the illegitimate pretender to the throne of Dieseldom, and want to kill it in its crib.
> 
> I own a 328d (and previously a 335d, too) and I have to say that after reading some of the expert driving impressions of the 328d, I wonder if we're talking about the same car; e.g., can't merge easily, frumpy, underpowered, power plant an outright dog, and my favorite, "no reserve for getting the better of anyone under any circumstances". All I can say is that I also live in San Diego and regularly merge and drive on the I-5 and the I-805, where speeds easily avg 75-85, and I've never had the slightest problem getting ahead or merging. The same holds true of being quick to fill the hole in traffic on CA three and four lane freeways where lane discipline is virtually unknown. And the same when jockeying for position ahead when two lanes merge to one.
> 
> ...


I understand what you're saying but let me ask why you bought the 328d. Judging from your history with the brand it's least exciting model you've had in some time.


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## m6pwr (Jan 26, 2008)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> I understand what you're saying but let me ask why you bought the 328d. Judging from your history with the brand it's least exciting model you've had in some time.


The first rational question in this thread. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Just because it doesn't rip the tarmac from the street, doesn't mean the 328d is an unexciting model BMW to drive. I suppose if 0-60 mph time is the holy grail, the only standard by which to judge, then it is. But I left that paradigm behind long ago.

I don't know how the driving conditions are where you live, but I found I couldn't drive a car like the e92 M3 anywhere close to its capabilities where I live, and I live out in the country with some great roads. And I usually found myself stuck behind Tone's favorite car, a Toyota Avalon. Of course I could always cross a double line. Pass in a no passing zone. Do a little lane splitting (legal in CA but only if your driving a motorcycle, but who's splitting . . . hairs). The faster the BMW I was driving, the more exasperated I became.

So I searched out some back country roads up in the mountains with light traffic. Then I would drive the road like I used to at CCA Driver's Schools. Balls to the wall. Yee haw!! Then in the penumbra of my brain I thought about what might happen when I steamed around a blind corner with no idea of what was on the other side. I'd remember how at the schools you always had corner workers to help you. And I remembered how once back in DC on a club "cruise" (bwaa haa! ha!), two of the club hot shoes started their squirrels- chasing-each-other routine and came around a corner at light speed and almost killed a women walking across the road. Thank god bimmers have such good brakes. Only result was a mutually inflicted fender bender for both. I was the chapter president. I knew we had liability insurance for driver's schools, but nothing for these "cruises". As a club officer would I be personally liable?

The Z4 was another story. Do you want to hear it? I'll tell you anyway. Touching the throttle was like touching a raw nerve end. I found I simply couldn't drive the car without provoking a drag race with someone. The car had so much torque you had to back out of the throttle in first and second gear, the DSC banging away like crazy and warning lights flashing all over the dash. It was comical. Then in third gear you could floor it and it would take off like a fu--ing rocket. I would rush (there's that word again) back home and look up the identity of my victims. Wow, that was an AMG so and so with 450 hp, or a Mustang Shelby Hyper Blast with 475 hp. I couldn't believe it. And I remember the look of rage and humiliation on the faces of my victims. So I worried maybe some of these people would recognize me. I bought a Ronald McDonald clown costume and I would wear it on my Z4 forays. Then one day while changing into the costume I saw myself in the mirror and realized I had become . . . a complete, total ****ing asshole. You get the picture.

So one day I test drove a 328d and really liked it. Here was a BMW I could drive close to the end of its envelope (or at least think I was), have fun, and not act like a complete, total f'ing a-hole.

PS: Maybe some of you 335d guys have gotten so used to all that torque that your right foot has begun to atrophy. I could see that it would mask the more modest grunt of the 328d. I remember hearing a presentation by Steve Dinan who told about how some of his customers would complain about the lack of improved power with his mods. His response: put your right foot down.


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## Dwight_Schrute (Feb 20, 2009)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> . Hatch is not an option. Who knows really. I've just been more inclined to voice my disappointment lately. * I've been looking at M3's for god sake.*


The horror!!! :yikes:


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

"One day I wake up and I look in the mirror and I don't like what I see."
-Gator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XoQT_nR1tA


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

m6pwr said:


> Something is at work here. Not sure what exactly, but I don't think it's objectivity. The 328d it seems has become the butt-boy of the diesel forum. Me thinks that some of us perceive it as the illegitimate pretender to the throne of Dieseldom, and want to kill it in its crib.
> 
> I own a 328d (and previously a 335d, too) and I have to say that after reading some of the expert driving impressions of the 328d, I wonder if we're talking about the same car; e.g., can't merge easily, frumpy, underpowered, power plant an outright dog, and my favorite, "no reserve for getting the better of anyone under any circumstances". All I can say is that I also live in San Diego and regularly merge and drive on the I-5 and the I-805, where speeds easily avg 75-85, and I've never had the slightest problem getting ahead or merging. The same holds true of being quick to fill the hole in traffic on CA three and four lane freeways where lane discipline is virtually unknown. And the same when jockeying for position ahead when two lanes merge to one.
> 
> ...


+1

My average commute in San Diego is 15 miles stop go traffic in the morning, 15 miles stop go traffic home at the end of the day. On the weekend the 5 is clogged along the coast as though it were Friday rush hour as well so you don't go anywhere fast. If you hit the twists in Rancho or in the mountains east of the 15 you still can't push the car anywhere near the limit. The roads just don't allow it.

So far I have had my car back from Europe now for just over a week. I have yet to need anywhere near the maximum it can give. And the few times I have stepped on it I have been at the speed limit, or 20 over before I am anywhere near the end of the rope. Maybe it is because I have given up my hot shoe driving everywhere but in Forza and when I go to "track days" with fancy "rented" cars but I have yet to feel a lack of power.

Also, the average 0-60 time for cars in America is like 10+ seconds. Honda sells more civics in a year than all BMWs combined. with ~7.3 the 328d is still faster than the average car by like 2.5 seconds to 60, and has much more power especially at 80mph, where, if you are in the right gear sitting in the power band sweet spot, a civic or Camry is already out of juice.

Lastly, let me say this, people always complain that BMW has gone soft on the "Ultimate Driving Machine"TM. My question is, who made them king and said "Ultimate Driving Machine"TM means 0-60 and 'ring times? I find my diesel wagon my "Ultimate Driving Machine"TM. It has the space I need, the power I want, economy that makes me smile, holds the road better than any rival's competing offering. And makes me smile every time I get in it. Sounds like the "Ultimate Driving Machine"TM to me. Or maybe I fall more under the German tagline which roughly translated is: "Joy through Driving"WHATEVER THE GERMAN EQUIVALENT OF TM IS.

One last things, because I know most people will never get this far: I have yet to meet one single person in my life who has driven in their daily life like the OP has described himself as driving, who then shown any aptitude for actually really really knowing how to control a car in dangerous situations or on a racetrack. Everybody I know who can really wring the neck of a car, no matter if it is a FIAT Panda or 458 drives like the oldest grandma in the world when on the road in the real world. Let's just let that sink in...


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## hansluc (Mar 22, 2009)

I'll start by saying I'm a fan of the 335d - it is a car that will put a smile on your face. The car makes 100 mph feel like walking. And I agree that the raw power on tap puts it in a different league. Objectively, the car hauls ass. That said, I am a fan of the 328d also. It behaves much like my beloved E46 on the highway but is +60% more fuel efficient and that really makes it shine in my eyes. I guess it really is about expectations and what trips your trigger.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

m6pwr said:


> The first rational question in this thread. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
> 
> Just because it doesn't rip the tarmac from the street, doesn't mean the 328d is an unexciting model BMW to drive. I suppose if 0-60 mph time is the holy grail, the only standard by which to judge, then it is. But I left that paradigm behind long ago.
> 
> ...


+1. Interesting points. I too wondered why, with that car history, you made the choice you did but I did not want to come off as trying to flame you. Not my thing. Folks often confuse straightforwardness with aggression.

Sent from my SGH-T399 using BimmerApp mobile app


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Dwight_Schrute said:


> The horror!!! :yikes:


Any problems with the High Pressure Fuel Pump or after it was fixed? Otherwise reliable that 335i?

To be honest, I've been looking at lightly used (guffaw) N55 135i's as an alternative to the 335d if this carbon-build up afflicts me. Jumping on the M235 might be an option too but I get creeped out a bit by buying a first year car as if there are going to be design flaws or other maintenance hiccups, that is where they will show up (crossed fingers that the DEF system on 328d's don't suffer the fate of some of the 335d folks). Ergo cautiously intrigued by the concept of the Audi S3 but also wondering if that too will be a dealership queen.

Speaking to carbon, I had the intake manifold pulled to check for carbon on my 2010 335d and my SA said "clean as if it was made yesterday" - this at 56k miles. He added, "had a guy in here the other day with a 335d with 15k fewer miles on it and it was all gummed up." Though I didn't NEED another reason to drive hard, I can't say that I didn't feel a +1 for having done so for so long and a -1 for thinking of slowing down.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Thanks m6pwr,

You're right about the torque. I'm addicted to it along with the mpg's. I road trip a lot and living in the Southeast the LEO's are reasonable and few. So unlike SoCal I can cruise st 85+ on my way to Biloxi, Tampa, or NC. Hell there are stretches where I can do 95 safely with everyone else (i.e. South Central Alabama for example). 

My error is making it personal. The N47 has been around for years and BMW chose to reward U.S. diesel owners with a 180 hp I4. So not only do they forego the N57 but they go even further and keep the 200+hp models from our shores as well. Insulting IMO. I'm being illogical and emotional for sure.

In addition you can read it in their U.S. press releases with the talk of the M57 being "too powerful" and the car mag reviewers just regurgitate it. What a bunch of BS. If it were true then BMW wouldn't have offered for years the 335d in both sedan and coupe in Europe/UK with MORE power than the U.S. model I might add. Excuses excuses BMW. 

So this choice of power plant is just icing on the cake because the F series drives like those early E46's with over boosted steering. The F series doesn't feel "planted" or "all business" when motoring around. Sure it will tighten up when you push a button (sport steering still feels artificial IMO) and really push the car. With the E36/46/9x cars you knew the car was athletic when just motoring around. You could feel it in the steering and the ride, it was just there when you wanted it. IMO it is what made BMW different from Benz, Audi, Lexus. Now it's all about buttons and artificial sound pumped through the speakers. 

Lastly I thought that the 335d was great value. It was not only unique but only $1k more than the 335i and in many ways it was on par performance wise. I don't have that feeling with the 328d. I don't see anything that makes it special to justify the premium.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

My $.02:

I find the styling of the e90 335d superior. Its balanced front to back and doesn't involve the "snout" compromise of the F30 for pedestrian collision regulations. The new 2 series seems to have a very bland back end, which is more of a styling compromise/afterthought IMO. I find the F30 dashboard styling interesting but unappealing compared to the classic simplicity of the e90, especially the trendy "tablet" cheap look of the LCD display. I also feel the F30 is now a midsize car compared to the "smaller" e90. I don't especially like the transmission that comes with the 335d but feel its at least acceptable.

The 328d cabin has more comfortable sport seats and more back seat room which is a plus as well as the efficiency. But it should come in at $6,000 to $10,000 less in price due to fewer cylinders than the 335d did but does not.

What seems to be the big elephant in the room, though, is the carbon buildup issues which by no means have an improvement in the 328d at least technically from what I see. There has been no technical development at BMW to tell me that the 328d won't have similar issues.

I'm definitely frustrated by the lack of similar choices to the 335d. I agree with the sentiments on how much power is needed, but the power on tap makes the 335d better somehow, and I don't want to spend $80,000 on the 535d. A manual transmission for the 328d at a lower price would definitely make me look at it, though I'm not holding my breath.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Hangman4358 said:


> +1
> 
> My average commute in San Diego is 15 miles stop go traffic in the morning, 15 miles stop go traffic home at the end of the day. On the weekend the 5 is clogged along the coast as though it were Friday rush hour as well so you don't go anywhere fast. If you hit the twists in Rancho or in the mountains east of the 15 you still can't push the car anywhere near the limit. The roads just don't allow it.
> 
> ...


I hear you for the first bit and agree with much of it. BMWs haven't been anywhere near the "UDM" for quite awhile, at least not across the lineup. I also agree that my short test probably didn't capture the entire character of the car, though I stand by everything I said. Coming from my perspective, which I made clear, the 328d is underpowered at speed. Plenty of oomph to get the job done, but nothing left if you make a perceptual mistake and need some margin of 'go'. I also agree that, competently driven, most vehicles perform better than when driven by the incompetent or tentative. Case in point is a friend of mine who bought as LS430 from an old lady in La Jolla who said it didn't have enough oomph. Huh?

I do disagree with you on the last point though, if I understand it properly - my commute features any number of people - mostly guys - who drive hot cars and drive them just like I do. In fact I measure the fun-to-drive quotient of other cars by how willing I note their drivers to be to fling them around. Mazdaspeed3's must be a hoot as there are two in my neighborhood and both are risible. G37s? Not so much. There are loads of them and people drive them like Camry's. I have yet to see a 328d in the wild but will make special note to be kind and courteous. And the I5 which, for those unfamiliar, goes from San Diego to at least SF and has 3-6 lanes both ways between SD and LA, can be like the Autobahn, particularly on quite weekend mornings: few constables, enough traffic to give you taillight warnings if one is nosing about, but enough space to air it out a bit (always, ALWAYS use your turn signals, never tailgate, and stay in your lane unless you feel the need to pass - rules that keep one from ever getting the finger). I routinely make that the SD to LA trip and see the AMG guys flogging it. The fact that I have no tickets and have neither been in nor been the cause of an accident means that by all objective measures, I am a safe driver. When you start seeing AMG's piled up beside the road, that's Saudi Arabia, where I'm told people really do drive like idiots.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

I think the biggest problem 335d drivers have with the 328d is the fact that it is not targeted toward them. I don't think I have seen any promotional stuff that tries to link the two. BMW is trying to become in America what it is in Europe. A far more broad reaching company in terms of to whom they sell. The 328d is one of the first steps. When BMW first came to America it saw the best way to compete to be through offering it's higher end cars and focusing on the upscale market. But BMW in NA has reached where it can go with that strategy. They are even loosing sales with new competitors like Tesla at the very top of their food chain.

The first thing friends note when they come germany with me is the amount of BMWs and other german "luxury" brands driving around. The fact is those companies can't survive in Europe only selling to the demographics they sell to in america. BMW is shifting that way in American now I think.

OP, you and I are on completely different ends of the diesel spectrum. You would never buy a 328d let alone a wagon I am guessing. I would never buy a 335d, let alone a sedan. And yet we both have BMW's we love.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Hangman4358 said:


> I think the biggest problem 335d drivers have with the 328d is the fact that it is not targeted toward them. I don't think I have seen any promotional stuff that tries to link the two. BMW is trying to become in America what it is in Europe. A far more broad reaching company in terms of to whom they sell. The 328d is one of the first steps. When BMW first came to America it saw the best way to compete to be through offering it's higher end cars and focusing on the upscale market. But BMW in NA has reached where it can go with that strategy. They are even loosing sales with new competitors like Tesla at the very top of their food chain.
> 
> The first thing friends note when they come germany with me is the amount of BMWs and other german "luxury" brands driving around. The fact is those companies can't survive in Europe only selling to the demographics they sell to in america. BMW is shifting that way in American now I think.
> 
> OP, you and I are on completely different ends of the diesel spectrum. You would never buy a 328d let alone a wagon I am guessing. I would never buy a 335d, let alone a sedan. And yet we both have BMW's we love.


I would consider buying a 328d, as I said, if I had a long, crowded freeway commute where the 335d would be overkill. And to be frank if BMW had offered the 335d in a wagon I would have probably bought one of those instead of the sedan. The 3-wagon is a hot looking car and always a treat to see. Fully concur with all comments in the thread bemoaning the paucity and fragmentation of BMW's diesel offerings. My dream car is the 225d. I had to mod out the Msport 335 suspension to improve cornering and had to put the BMW Performance Suspension on my 2010 base model 335d for similar reasons and am still not entirely happy with cornering performance. The 225d, absent about 500 lbs of weight, would probably handle better, has a reported 0-62 time of 6.3, and gets well in the 40s on the highway and 30s city. Where is that car? In Europe, that's where.

No, we're not so far apart, just forced to choose (in my case at least) between two options quite distinct from one another, both probably imperfect in one regard or another. Glad you love your car though. Nice to hear.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

I too would much rather see the 25d instead of the 20d in America. But it is what it is. Maybe then others would stop bitching about the 28d name....


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

For perspective I thought this would be interesting. Here are the HP/TQ specs of the US based E9X cars.

325i 215 hp, 199 lb/T
328i 228 hp, 199 lb/T
330i 255 hp, 221 lb/T
335d 265 hp, 425 lb/T
335i 300 hp, 300 lb/T


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

For me the 335d was much more fun than is the 328d but the prospect of 50mpg on the Interstate (which is 90% of my driving) was too great a temptation for me to resist.The fact that the check from the insurance company for my totaled Bluetec covered my new "d" but didn't come close to covering the 535d also played a role in my decision making.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

listerone said:


> For me the 335d was much more fun than is the 328d but the prospect of 50mpg on the Interstate (which is 90% of my driving) was too great a temptation for me to resist.The fact that the check from the insurance company for my totaled Bluetec covered my new "d" but didn't come close to covering the 535d also played a role in my decision making.


That Bluetec seems on paper to be a nice car. Glad you're liking the 328d - sounds perfect for your situation. Did you go 'wagon'? (sorry - can't keep track of all the cars everyone drives).

I dunno what I'd do if my 335d got smashed up. Most of my driving is suburban, with zero city and about 5% freeway, with lots of curves and little hills. I'd feel too guilty going with an M235 and all the gas it'd eat up the way I'd drive it. Could be a GTI or maybe an S3. The present A3 TDI doesn't have enough power on my value continuum. I guess I'll see how the new small Audi diesels do. The 535d is a pretty car but it doesn't handle crisply enough. Really, the 335d is the perfect car for the present. The one only has 26k miles on it, so I don't have to think too quickly.

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## SteVTEC (Feb 16, 2005)

Two years ago I had an E90 335d for a loaner for a week and wow, WHATACAR!!!! It was clearly in a league of its own. Never driven a car with THAT much performance that would still get upper-30's if not low-40 MPG on the highway. But, guess what? For people mostly interested in fuel efficiency, the latest non-luxury mid-sized cars these days can come pretty darned close to matching that level of efficiency while costing many thousands of dollars less and on the cheapest regular grade fuel. So as sad as I am that there's no F30 335d in the U.S., I think the 328d does make a lot more sense. It's STILL faster and has more oomph than any 4-cylinder non-lux mid-sized, but can get 45 mpg on the highway if not over 50. I've also had an F30 328d for a loaner and I agree it's no 335d, but it's a good car and I genuinely enjoyed it. Its power and torque to weight ratio is basically identical to our X5d, so it wasn't a surprise to me that it drove and went pretty much identically to our X5d. No, 180hp isn't a whole lot at the top when you're running flat out, but neither is 265 in our 5200 lb X5 either. If that's how you drive, I think you'd be much better off with a zingy petrol.

I'm pretty much in the same boat as *m6pwr* at this point. I've gotten the whole power thing out of my system and it just doesn't sell me on a car these days. I have to baby my 335i just about everywhere I might drive it, and when I do step on it I'm always looking in the rear-view mirror and conscious of just how much trouble I'd be in were I caught. I have two lawyer buddies of mine on speed dial, LOL. I actually have more fun in our X5d when it comes to flat-footed driving, because you can wring that thing out and not have to immediately worry about getting arrested. I enjoy my E93 335i for the handling, the precise steering, the fact that it's a convertible, and the incredible brakes all before I enjoy the power. It might as well be a 328i at this point, but I needed to get the whole power thing out of my system.

I do wish we got the 200 or 220hp variant of the "328d". I don't know what it is, but the power delivery with a full load of passengers just came up a bit short with the 180hp, but I haven't felt that way in our X5d despite the peak power to weight ratios being the same between the two. It was missing a little something. Maybe the 3.0 is underrated a bit and what's in the 328d is closer to actual paper specs. Who knows. But nothing a JBD chip wouldn't address.  I really liked the ZF 8AT in the 328d, though. It does a very nice job of keeping the engine in its torque band, whereas it tends to drift out a bit more with the ZF6 in our X5d.

Overall I liked the car, but the wallet vote for me is this. I not just liked but LOVED the E90 335d so much that if they continued that line and offered an F30 335d, I was going to trade-in my E93 335i for one. The F30 platform as a whole just isn't doing it for me, and the "328d" isn't quite what I want either. It's an awesome car and I enjoyed it quite a bit and could be very happy with it, but am going to hold onto my E93 335i.


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## mattebury (Feb 2, 2014)

tonyspumoni said:


> 2011 335d Msport





EMPTYKIM said:


> I'll be in a space gray 335d sport.


And me in my imperial blue 328d hollering wait for me!!!!!


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

mattebury said:


> And me in my imperial blue 328d hollering wait for me!!!!!


We'd beat you on the short end but you'd beat us on the long. I can get 400 miles on a tank, but unless I'm loafing at 75 mph for nothing but long distances, I can't touch a 600 mile tank. My las little road trip was from the La Jolla area up to Santa Margarita. I probably averaged about 90, hitting that stretch north of Pendleton more than that, and I still got >37 mpg.

I read a story once - maybe on this forum but I can't remember - about a guy who brings his Tesla and a portable diesel generator on a flatbed up to Laguna. He recharges between runs.]

I might know that grey 335d - I've seen one like that up off North Torrey Pines. There's a silver one with a base suspension in my hood as well as another blue Msport just like mine. I almost tried to get into it one day at the store by mistake and then once I realized my mistake I waited around for a couple of minutes to chat the other owner up, but they never showed and I split.


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## m6pwr (Jan 26, 2008)

tonyspumoni said:


> If we had a track around here we could really give these cars a through workout. Wouldn't that be nice. Laguna doesn't have open track days - you gotta be a member of a club and I'm allergic to them. Like flocks, there's always a shepherd or a nanny running the show and if you don't kiss the ring, you don't get to ride the ride. I fact, I've often dreamt about pitching in the towel on science and trying to open a track. The only trouble is that there's no good land for it around here - I'd have to go put it out in the middle of East County. Ah well. That's why they're called dreams.


What's wrong with Chuckwalla Valley Raceway (CVR) up by Hemet? It's about an hour to an hour and a half from SD (I hr from Escondido), a day trip. It's relatively new and in great condition, and they have plenty of open lapping days. There's one on May31 for only $175 which is cheap, cheap, cheap compared to a BMW CCA two day school which goes for around $475, plus motel room, plus gas and some meals, your looking at around $700+ for the weekend, and you have to drive around the black hole of L.A. to get to tracks like Buttonwillow and Willow Springs. So CVR is a deal - http://goracecvr.com/. It's up in the high dessert on a piece of land that was used by Patton in the early days of WWII to train his tankers before they took on Rommel.

One word of caution. Back in the good old days, if you went to a HPDE and put your car on its roof or rolled it up in a ball, you could tell your insurance company that you hit a deer. You wouldn't believe the damage a deer could do. And the insurance companies actually bought it. Not now. Specific exclusions for accidents on "a racing surface". There are, however, insurers who will cover you for a day or two at the track. Check with CVR.

But if you don't want the regimentation or cost of track time, don't want to mess with tech inspections, dealing with club dudes on an ego trip, etc., you're in luck if you live in SD. Palomar Mountain or Mt Laguna. Hot shoes from all over So Cal come to the roads up there on the weekends in the summer. And believe it or not, as notorious as the area is for street racers the cops do not patrol the roads or set up radar traps. I have seen articles in the papers, however, about disgruntled locals who spread oil or nails across the roads.

Nevertheless, I see virtual caravans of all the exotic sports cars, Porsche GT's, Ferrari's, Lambo's, Lotus, etc., you name it, going to or from the mountains, driving down Main St of Ramona (where pick-up trucks with gun racks are the rule, with big stickers of President Obama that say "Does This Ass Make My Pickup Look Big"). The roads going up to Palomar are incredible. If fast, blind turns are your cup of tea, then Palomar is for you. But be forewarned, even sometimes during the summer when you go around a corner and see the road disappear into the shadows of a hill, be ready if you hit some patches of ice still not thawed from the night. Best to drag the roads at sane speed before you drive them at . . . insane speeds. Then, there are the pesky bikers coming from the other direction. They will often lay down and skid into your lane (well actually his lane since you're probably wide for the best apex). There's hardly a weekend that goes by in the summer that the Ramona Sentinel doesn't have a description of how a biker on his crotch rocket gets run over by a sports car. It's in a regularly appearing column titled, "Those Loved By the Gods Die Young". But they never say what the biker did to the front air dam of the Lotus, or Ferrari, etc. as they crush beneath. Hey, those Ferrari drivers are human beings too!

Best to take it to the track.


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

tonyspumoni said:


> I read a story once - maybe on this forum but I can't remember - about a guy who brings his Tesla and a portable diesel generator on a flatbed up to Laguna. He recharges between runs.]


Well, unless it was somewhere else you may have heard that from me. He was at Infineon...not Laguna Seca....when I saw him at least. It was a bit of a failed experiment since he could not charge quickly enough to run all of the sessions completely. 

"Open track days" versus running with a group who rents the track?

Plenty of the groups that rent Laguna will toss you out there with guys in cars without a single straight, painted piece of sheet metal left on their car if that is what you really want. Plus a 335d wouldn't be very competitive versus guys in trashed-body spec miatas in the corners where they will gladly run three wide and trade their dutch boy paint with your shiny stuff. LOL.:rofl:

I prefer competing with people who have as much to lose as I do. It isn't fun when you would don't want to crumple a door panel and they don't care.  Real wheel to wheel racing needs fully safety equipped cars (fuel cells etc) and a willingness to crash.

My brother and I rented out Reno-Fernley for a day and had about 20 friends all pitch in. It was "drive until your tires blew up or you got tired...which ever comes first." That was awesome because we knew and trusted everyone out there.

I am looking forward to the newly expanded Thunderhill raceway this year. I think it is the best track in the country. Awesome surface. Lots of run off room.


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## m6pwr (Jan 26, 2008)

DaveN007 said:


> "Open track days" versus running with a group who rents the track?
> 
> Plenty of the groups that rent Laguna will toss you out there with guys in cars without a single straight, painted piece of sheet metal left on their car if that is what you really want. Plus a 335d wouldn't be very competitive versus guys in trashed-body spec miatas in the corners where they will gladly run three wide and trade their dutch boy paint with your shiny stuff. LOL.:rofl:


I agree. Club schools are generally the best and safest. You get what pay for. So what if you have to deal with dudes and dudettes on an ego trip. Actually few and far between in my experience with BMW CCA.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

Hangman4358 said:


> Don't forget the F15 which really should be a 30d and not a 35d. If you are going to yell about all the "wrong" labeling then at least do it for every model


Thanks Hangman4358; you are definitely correct about the U.S. market diesel F15. I just don't pay attention to SUVs (or SAVs or whatever BMW calls these things now), so I missed it.

But yes, the "yelling" should be directed across the board regarding BMW of North America's improper labeling of diesel powered models.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

tonyspumoni said:


> Based on the amount of flak I got for my views on the relative merits of the 328d I'd say that people who like them really like them, which means there is a ready market for the car.
> 
> On the other hand I have yet to see one in the wild so they're not pouring off the lots. I see 335d's reasonably routinely - there's even one in my suburb identical to mine - but this is the sum of three model years, so not a fair measure of the desirability. BMW used to release model sales numbers, but despite about 2 minutes of web noodling I can't find anything on the web that says how well the 328d is selling.


I've seen a few around. 2 Wagons and 2 Sedans.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

m6pwr said:


> What's wrong with Chuckwalla Valley Raceway (CVR) up by Hemet?


Sorry for the late response - I have been away at a conference - and thanks for the tip! I might just take your advice.

Actually all the info about formal and informal tracking in SoCal were terrific. I had no idea.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Here is a 328d review. Talks about the sales but no concrete numbers:

Link


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

GreekboyD said:


> Here is a 328d review. Talks about the sales but no concrete numbers:
> 
> Link


Another review where I seriously question whether they even drove the car. All indication of that is that they noticed that the suspension bottoms out because of the low profile tires. Which is a bit incorrect. Not to mention should they say what setting the suspension was in? Oh right because the bottoming out is from the tires. Right.

Normally I would say this "review" is right out of the website online configurator. However...

They also repeat the usual mistake of mentally putting the adaptive suspension into the M sports package, not into the dynamic handling package.

Even if they would be website non-driving reviewers they then move on saying the E class diesel is $13,000 more without adjusting for options. Which they could do from their armchair.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Squiddie said:


> Another review where I seriously question whether they even drove the car. All indication of that is that they noticed that the suspension bottoms out because of the low profile tires. Which is a bit incorrect. Not to mention should they say what setting the suspension was in? Oh right because the bottoming out is from the tires. Right.
> 
> Normally I would say this "review" is right out of the website online configurator. However...
> 
> ...


Ya it seems reviewers are always looking for something different. Case in point:

Link


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

GreekboyD said:


> Ya it seems reviewers are always looking for something different. Case in point:
> 
> Link


Oh what a way to miss the point.

"Cons: Poor value for the money with no navigation and no rearview camera, plus why should heated seats cost an extra $500 on a $45,000 car? $550 for red paint?"

Who cares about those. Single options. Buy them or not.

What is turning into outright extortion with the 4-series convertible is the packaging of options. No more hecker&koch audio without navigation system. WTF.

No neck warmer without leather. A bit more understandable - if I liked BMWs current base leather. I'm not sure it's that much better than whatevertec they using. Nappa leather isn't available unless you go with an M4, and there isn't a convertible yet.


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## hansluc (Mar 22, 2009)

GreekboyD said:


> Here is a 328d review. Talks about the sales but no concrete numbers:
> 
> Link


A link in the review states that the 328d sold 777 units in 3/14. Latest data shows that about 920 were sold in April. Total for the year is 3,108.
Link


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

Does the total for the year mean model year or since jan. 1? Also is that just the sedan or does that include the wagon?

Saw my first 328d in the wild today that wasn't mine or the wife's. No-Line mineral grey. still have yet to see another 3er wagon. Diesel or not.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Hangman4358 said:


> Does the total for the year mean model year or since jan. 1? Also is that just the sedan or does that include the wagon?
> 
> Saw my first 328d in the wild today that wasn't mine or the wife's. No-Line mineral grey. still have yet to see another 3er wagon. Diesel or not.


Saw a wagon the other day but could not tell if it was a d or an i. Sales numbers are ok if I am reading the table right. 1000 or so a month is not bad at all.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## hansluc (Mar 22, 2009)

Hangman4358 said:


> Does the total for the year mean model year or since jan. 1? Also is that just the sedan or does that include the wagon?


Calendar year sales, includes the wagon. 3rd best selling diesel car overall behind Jetta and Passat is impressive given VW's lower selling price and foothold in the diesel world. Perhaps the incentives are having the desired effect, but I think the word is simply getting around. Not only have favorable diesel write-ups been floating in the press for many years now, the sheer volume of models now available from various makers has to be having some salutary effect on purchase consideration.

X5 is at #4 and their sales numbers are also on the ascent, +35% YTD.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm starting to see them heavily discounted. IIRC I saw a MW, M SPORT, Premium pkg, NAV for $42k


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

tonyspumoni said:


> Saw a wagon the other day but could not tell if it was a d or an i. Sales numbers are ok if I am reading the table right. 1000 or so a month is not bad at all.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


white or silver? Somewhere between del mar and oceanside? Along the 5 corridor? White was probably me or my son or both of us driving silver was the wife haha.

Or was it blue? There is a guy somewhere in SD who has a custom Msport Santorini blue 328d wagon. He posted pics on one of the other forums. I would love to run into that one in the wild



BMWTurboDzl said:


> I'm starting to see them heavily discounted. IIRC I saw a MW, M SPORT, Premium pkg, NAV for $42k


I wish it were mineral white. Sadly no mineral white on msport. BMW lost 3k from me going sport line instead just to get the mineral white paint.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Hangman4358 said:


> white or silver? Somewhere between del mar and oceanside? Along the 5 corridor? White was probably me or my son or both of us driving silver was the wife haha.
> 
> Or was it blue? There is a guy somewhere in SD who has a custom Msport Santorini blue 328d wagon. He posted pics on one of the other forums. I would love to run into that one in the wild
> 
> I wish it were mineral white. Sadly no mineral white on msport. BMW lost 3k from me going sport line instead just to get the mineral white paint.


Hangman4358

If memory serves it was indeed silver. I did not catch the tag number tho as I was hotfooting it somewhere DelMar/Solana-ish in the 5. Sharp car. Wish it had the straight six and I would lust for the wagon badly.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Update to my test drive ***8211; a 328d xDrive Sportswagen dealer loaner.

If you love your 328d, read no further. I'm glad you like it. If you're thinking about buying a 328d or swapping your 335d for one don't believe the hype: the gulf separating the 335d performance-wise is vast while the that which separates their efficiency is not likely to be enough to compensate, at least if you plan to drive it like a UDM. I much prefer the new 328i, which can make some claim to UDB status while offering pretty good efficiency numbers (see www.fuelly.com for such reports).

I started this thread offering my views on a 328d sedan I test-drove a short while ago. Test drives, being rather brief affairs, are frequently ill suited to fairly assessing the virtues and vices of cars though. Contrast this with loaner experiences which, being both longer and devoid of the yappy salesperson co-pilot bent on distraction/marketing, provide ample opportunity to drive cars as if they were one's own ***8211; the same roads, the same trips to Costco, the same squalling brats in the back, and all the places and times one would be in a car.

As my initial post explained I did not think very much of the 2014 BMW 328d sedan I drove during a recent test drive (see OP). Underpowered, unrefined, and overpriced, I did not consider it a worthy successor to the 335d and held the view that it was a major step backwards for BMW diesels in general.

My 2011 335d Msport needed a checkup yesterday and spotting a red 328d xDrive Sportswagen in the loaner lot, I asked for it. My SA said "you're gonna hate it ***8211; you'll be back here in an hour begging me for a 328", but he knows me personally and is well aware of my driving tastes, which he shares and which I therefore discounted. But I thought that I'd been harsh enough on the 328d sedan tester to warrant giving the powerplant and chassis a longer, fairer test. As near as I can tell this car retails for $45,875 ***8211; base model with leather and red paint, though it does have paddle shifters and I think heated seats, which I couldn't in 20 seconds figure out how to price on BMW of USA's build site. The real price for this car was therefore probably north of 46 large.

I'll say here outright ***8211; everything I said before sadly remains true and the play stands as called: the 328d in either sedan or wagon form is underpowered, unrefined, and overpriced. On the plus side the wagon has nice mirrors, a terrific sunroof, and offers a comfortable ride in the base model. I actually like the 8-speed tranny and wish the 335d had it but the 328d xDrive Sportwagen, like its sedan sibling, is otherwise an exceptionally unremarkable UDM and not one I would own. Exhibit A placing 328d into non-UDM mode? Freeway passing. I tried some cutting and thrusting from 60-75 and from 70-85, e.g. typical Cali commuting warfare in all three driving modes, Eco, Comfort, and Sport. This car will get there but it sure takes its sweet time doing so. Cut and thrust? Seriously? More like 'gum' and 'prod'. And none of that malarkey about "not pressing the pedal". I know exactly where the fun pedal is and exactly how to use it. Flooring the 328d from a standing start, from 5 mph, or from 75 mph gives the same sensation of "wait for it, wait for it***8230;.ah ***8211; there it is". Turbo lag maybe, but more likely a poor power-to-weight ratio that, for all it's gifts, simply cannot be hidden by a good tranny.

Much ink has been spilled here and elsewhere too touting the 328d's virtues in terms of efficiency. I say bollocks - the emperor has no clothes. The loaner had less than 800 miles on it. I purposefully did NOT reset the mileage meter, reasoning that if it had not been reset yet and I was the only nut attempting to drive it like a UDM, my poisonous hooliganism wouldn't under-represent the car's efficiency during my 70 mile stint. Mileage on the meter? 28.7 mpg. My 335d, driven hard, comes very close to that in mixed city/highway (see a randomly selected photo of my mileage log) and hits no worse than 35 mpg on the outright highway. The case therefore cannot even be stated as "well, it's not a racecar but it gets great mileage". Maybe it does, but not in my hands nor likely in the hands of any of the other previous customers who had the misfortune to take their car in for service and get this dog as a replacement. It's a comfy ride and a guy in the Costco lot said "hey, sharp car" so it sure does have that sexy buzz, but it is neither an Ultimate DRIVING Machine nor likely an Ultimate EFFICIENCY machine either and to pretend otherwise is bunk. Yup ***8211; I've seen Fuelly and read all the glowing reviews of folks saying "holy cow, I got 50 mpg for a short stint of 55 mpg driving from X to Y" but those folks don't say that for 25k miles of smiling driving and if they didn't tout the efficiency, they'd have to admit that the 328d ain't a great car. And the number of folks who say "HFS. I took my 328d to the track and my UDM did***8230;.." is how many? Let's say 'few'.

Put it this way ***8211; if my 335d were to bake off tomorrow (and god knows it might they way I flog it) I would find a used Prius on Craigslist for 15k and use it as my DD, buy a new 2015 2-door base VW GTI with the performance pack for the weekends, and pocket the 4k difference. If BMW wants me to continue to be a loyal diesel customer, they are going to have to try harder than the 328d. Oh, and before you accuse me of hatred, note this ***8211; I really wanted to love this car because I think diesel is the way to dump less CO2 in the environment and not poison the ground with battery metals. I gave it a fair shake ***8211; it is what it is.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

tonyspumoni said:


> Update to my test drive - a 328d xDrive Sportswagen dealer loaner.
> 
> If you love your 328d, read no further. I'm glad you like it. If you're thinking about buying a 328d or swapping your 335d for one don't believe the hype: the gulf separating the 335d performance-wise is vast while the that which separates their efficiency is not likely to be enough to compensate, at least if you plan to drive it like a UDM.


A reasonable conclusion IMHO. (BTW, what's a UDM and UDB? :dunno: old fart here.)

IME, the difference in mileage between the two on the highway will be around 10 mpg. For my wife coming from her Highlander, it's twice the mileage, way better car, and much faster. Obviously YMMV.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

floydarogers said:


> A reasonable conclusion IMHO. (BTW, what's a UDM and UDB? :dunno: old fart here.)
> 
> IME, the difference in mileage between the two on the highway will be around 10 mpg. For my wife coming from her Highlander, it's twice the mileage, way better car, and much faster. Obviously YMMV.


Sorry to be accronymy. UDM is Ultimate Driving Machine - BMW's trademark phrase.

Sent from my SGH-T399 using BimmerApp mobile app


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> Thanks for the review and it seems to mirror what I've read elsewhere. The 320i has better acceleration than the 28d. The more I think of it 328d = *CAFE for BMW. *
> F-it. After 15 yrs+ with the brand I'm either keeping my 335d or buying a 2015 Jetta TDI this fall. Hell, maybe I'll go electric but the i3 is so GD ugly.


It seems like that is all BMW cares about now. It's too bad, they really made some great driving cars, but now it's all about compromise in the driving experience. N4S


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

need4speed said:


> It seems like that is all BMW cares about now. It's too bad, they really made some great driving cars, but now it's all about compromise in the driving experience. N4S


I test drove a Jetta TDI Sportwagen awhile back with a manual. The 328d is a slightly upscale version of that car with nearly the same feel, size, and performance but with more nimble handling. Tough pill to swallow for the huge price difference.

Yes, CAFE rules and the 328d will play its part. What I find so puzzling is that BMW already has a great small performance diesel - the 225d. IMHO The 328d is the result of two opposing forces that proved irreconcileable - make it effieicent but make it lux so we can ram up the price. Bring in something both efficient AND fun like the 225d and no one but those needing a wagon would pay 10k more for a 3 series that makes greater compromises.

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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

tonyspumoni said:


> I test drove a Jetta TDI Sportwagen awhile back with a manual. The 328d is a slightly upscale version of that car with nearly the same feel, size, and performance but with more nimble handling. Tough pill to swallow for the huge price difference.
> 
> Yes, CAFE rules and the 328d will play its part. What I find so puzzling is that BMW already has a great small performance diesel - the 225d. IMHO The 328d is the result of two opposing forces that proved irreconcileable - make it effieicent but make it lux so we can ram up the price. Bring in something both efficient AND fun like the 225d and no one but those needing a wagon would pay 10k more for a 3 series that makes greater compromises.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


They also could've brought over the 325d (200+ hp) instead


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

tonyspumoni said:


> I test drove a Jetta TDI Sportwagen awhile back with a manual. The 328d is a slightly upscale version of that car with nearly the same feel, size, and performance but with more nimble handling. Tough pill to swallow for the huge price difference.


Yeah but thing of maintenance and repair for the VW.

Oh wait...


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

tonyspumoni said:


> Update to my test drive - a 328d xDrive Sportswagen dealer loaner.
> 
> If you love your 328d, read no further. I'm glad you like it. If you're thinking about buying a 328d or swapping your 335d for one don't believe the hype: the gulf separating the 335d performance-wise is vast while the that which separates their efficiency is not likely to be enough to compensate, at least if you plan to drive it like a UDM. I much prefer the new 328i, which can make some claim to UDB status while offering pretty good efficiency numbers (see www.fuelly.com for such reports).
> 
> ...


Two points:

I drove several VW TDIs, Golf, Sportwagen, Jetta Sedan, none came close to refinement of the 328d, even fully loaded. The ultimate embarrasement was the auto transmission failure of a sportwagen DSG during a test drive. They aren't known for reliability. Manual, I didn't want.

And your statement of I got 50 mpg for a short stint at 55 mph, is also wrong. I just yesterday completed a 700 mile round trip. Left full, filled up on the way home, with still about slightly less than half a tank, 9.6 gallons. I have 3/4 a tank now. Average mpg for the trip, 51.6 mpg. Average speed on the mostly interstate route 70 mph, except through atlanta, even an hour stretch at 80. Trip includes about an hour of a 4 lane US route with a handful or more of stopights. You mistakenly make comparisons of mpg with a car that has had nothing but short test drives or rides to work and never stretched its' legs.

I'm glad you like your 335d, I'm sure it is a fantastic car, no question, but I think those of us who really do like the 328d got your point a few pages ago.


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## DBV (Sep 21, 2008)

Good points on the 328d. I think it is the most refined 3 series, as I like everything about it. I tried to like the 335d, but being rear wheel drive in the snow belt in Cleveland does no good. The 335d had to much torque, plus is not near efficient as the 328d. Think the 328d is the perfect blend.



glangford said:


> Two points:
> 
> I drove several VW TDIs, Golf, Sportwagen, Jetta Sedan, none came close to refinement of the 328d, even fully loaded. The ultimate embarrasement was the auto transmission failure of a sportwagen DSG during a test drive. They aren't known for reliability. Manual, I didn't want.
> 
> ...


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

DBV said:


> Good points on the 328d. I think it is the most refined 3 series, as I like everything about it. I tried to like the 335d, but being rear wheel drive in the snow belt in Cleveland does no good. The *335d had to much torque*, plus is not near efficient as the 328d. Think the 328d is the perfect blend.


 Is that even possible??? Nahhh. N4S


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

N4S is fine, but not all of us do. I bought the 328d sport wagon first and foremost for its efficiency, not for its sportiness, power or even handling. The fact that that it has these, to some degree at all, is a bonus and helped be ok with the price and feel that I have also treated myself a bit. 
My point is that the demographic for this car is me, not you. For those of you disparaging this car, DONT BUY IT! It is not made for you. It was made for people like me. It is not the demise of BMW, it is their reach to a different demographic. I for one am grateful they have offered this option.

I am pretty new to this forum, but threads like this are pretty discouraging. Let me point you to the "we are all pretentious a****les" thread. It is not limited to BMW v other makes, it is alive and well between different BMW models as well. Sorry for the rant.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Jamolay said:


> N4S is fine, but not all of us do. I bought the 328d sport wagon first and foremost for its efficiency, not for its sportiness, power or even handling. The fact that that it has these, to some degree at all, is a bonus and helped be ok with the price and feel that I have also treated myself a bit.
> My point is that the demographic for this car is me, not you. For those of you disparaging this car, DONT BUY IT! It is not made for you. It was made for people like me. It is not the demise of BMW, it is their reach to a different demographic. I for one am grateful they have offered this option.
> 
> I am pretty new to this forum, but threads like this are pretty discouraging. Let me point you to the "we are all pretentious a****les" thread. It is not limited to BMW v other makes, it is alive and well between different BMW models as well. Sorry for the rant.
> ...


Jamolay,

My OP had no data, just impressions. I wish to speak the truth and therefore felt obligated to support my views with data after a longer test. Probably 10 other folks had had that loaner before me, meaning 10 other random BMW drivers. We managed a collective 28.7 mpg. Rather pedestrian, wouldn't you agree?. I also provided a randomly-selected page from my 335d mileage log (if you like I can post them all). Again - data, but pretty comparable data, no?

Clearly you are able to exploit the 328'd virtues on the roads you drive the way you drive it and obtain great efficiencies. Terrific. But lots of folks cruise these blogs for impressions when thinking about cars and, while I may be the outlier in terms of wringing poor efficiency from this particularly 328d loaner, so were the other 10 folks before me. I would hypothesize that that means that most BMW drivers are NOT going to pull routine 40 mpg stints in mixed freeway/suburban driving, at between 45 and 80F, some hills, with freeway speeds >75 mpg.


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## DieselRacer (Apr 22, 2014)

I wound never buy a 328d, I would rather have a Jetta or Passat TDI and save myself about 20g...but I would never buy a 335d new either, used and save a ton of cash...


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

DieselRacer said:


> I wound never buy a 328d, I would rather have a Jetta or Passat TDI and save myself about 20g...but I would never buy a 335d new either, used and save a ton of cash...


+1. Had I bought my 335d Msport new it would have been 56k if I figured it right. But at 35k used - erp "pre-owned" for those with style - it was a steal. Just 17k miles. So much for depreciation. We shall see what the market bears when the 328d's start coming off lease. Could be that the 328d is better designed in terms of the emissions/SCR system and will not scare the willies out of prospective buyers of pre-owned BMW diesels.

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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

DieselRacer said:


> I wound never buy a 328d, I would rather have a Jetta or Passat TDI and save myself about 20g...but I would never buy a 335d new either, used and save a ton of cash...


One thing: Passat and Jetta and Tiguan and Audi A3/A4 are not available in AWD form. To some that's a deal-breaker; 3-series are the only AWD 4-pot diesel available.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

floydarogers said:


> One thing: Passat and Jetta and Tiguan and Audi A3/A4 are not available in AWD form. To some that's a deal-breaker; 3-series are the only AWD 4-pot diesel available.


You can have the current E-class with 4matic and the 4 cylinder engine. Won't be "quite as" sporty as the BMW, though.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

Squiddie said:


> You can have the current E-class with 4matic and the 4 cylinder engine. Won't be "quite as" sporty as the BMW, though.


Yes, but they cost the same or more, in my recollection, and don't get the same mileage at all.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Seppo (May 12, 2014)

328xd is optimized for a different demographic than the OP and a similar strain of the BMW faithful. Me, I'm not overly impressed by the whole "got a BMW!" thing, there are good BMWs and some not so impressive ones, which is true of the competing makes, as well. I'm looking for the right tool for the job at hand. Liked my old E36 328i sport package, but also recognized its shortcomings as well. Have had good Audis and Volkswagens as well as BMW. I think the F30's are performance focused in the 335i, the other variants are more rounded in capabilities. If I desired a pricey performance car, Porsche better fills that slot, IMHO.

I had a VW Passat TDI that I loved, except the seats were excruciating and couldn't be adjusted to suit either me or The Passenger. With a manual trans, it was a refined and lovely thing to drive, just terrific on the highway, and reasonable for a big FWD sedan on twisty roads, great control interfaces and 47mpg overall. Since we couldn't fix the seating, I cross shopped Volvo V60, Audi A4, Fusion, Accord, Mazda 6, and 3-series. Volvo and Audi were nice but pricey and short of overall interior space, the mass market maker cars were lacking compared to VW, so we found ourselves in the price range to consider the 328xd. Good enough seats, better room than Volvo or Audi, X-drive with a diesel, it was a good choice despite the silly price tag. I drive a lot of miles, so I need comfort and range, but also have to hold on to my license, so I find 328xd sufficiently fast. Yes, the Passat's TDI is a bit more refined, especially with manual transmission, and the BMW diesel has some surging along with constant automatic gearchanges, but I don't waste any time or fuel, though I'm hoping the 43mpg to date will improve as it breaks in with more miles. It's my first ever automatic after forty years of driving stick, and I'm not sure I will ever be completely happy with the two-pedal tradeoffs, but this ZF8 is not too bad, I suppose.

I'm hoping the BMW will be as reliable as the two VW TDI's I have driven over the past 215k miles, they were completely trouble-free and solid builds.

BMW has expanded the 3-series portfolio enough to have a number of niche models appealing to different driver need patterns, and 328d meets different needs than 335i or the old 335d. If they hold up in real-world service, they may prove to be acceptable values, we'll see over time.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Seppo said:


> 328xd is optimized for a different demographic than the OP and a similar strain of the BMW faithful. Me, I'm not overly impressed by the whole "got a BMW!" thing, there are good BMWs and some not so impressive ones, which is true of the competing makes, as well. I'm looking for the right tool for the job at hand. Liked my old E36 328i sport package, but also recognized its shortcomings as well. Have had good Audis and Volkswagens as well as BMW. I think the F30's are performance focused in the 335i, the other variants are more rounded in capabilities. If I desired a pricey performance car, Porsche better fills that slot, IMHO.
> 
> I had a VW Passat TDI that I loved, except the seats were excruciating and couldn't be adjusted to suit either me or The Passenger. With a manual trans, it was a refined and lovely thing to drive, just terrific on the highway, and reasonable for a big FWD sedan on twisty roads, great control interfaces and 47mpg overall. Since we couldn't fix the seating, I cross shopped Volvo V60, Audi A4, Fusion, Accord, Mazda 6, and 3-series. Volvo and Audi were nice but pricey and short of overall interior space, the mass market maker cars were lacking compared to VW, so we found ourselves in the price range to consider the 328xd. Good enough seats, better room than Volvo or Audi, X-drive with a diesel, *it was a good choice despite the silly price tag.* I drive a lot of miles, so I need comfort and range, but also have to hold on to my license, so I find 328xd sufficiently fast. Yes, the Passat's TDI is a bit more refined, especially with manual transmission, and the BMW diesel has some surging along with constant automatic gearchanges, but I don't waste any time or fuel, though I'm hoping the 43mpg to date will improve as it breaks in with more miles. It's my first ever automatic after forty years of driving stick, and I'm not sure I will ever be completely happy with the two-pedal tradeoffs, but this ZF8 is not too bad, I suppose.
> 
> ...


This would be my main gripe, were I looking to buy the 328d.


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## DieselRacer (Apr 22, 2014)

I drove a 328d and it reminds me of an audi or a vw or a benz, it's a diesel which is cool, 4 banger yippee, but when I drove the 335d HOLY **** it felt like a supercar, especially in m sport trim...


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

DieselRacer said:


> I drove a 328d and it reminds me of an audi or a vw or a benz, it's a diesel which is cool, 4 banger yippee, but when I drove the 335d HOLY **** it felt like a supercar, especially in m sport trim...


The only cars available in the U.S. that have combined that level of performance with a modicum of efficiency are the Tesla and probably the A6/A8 TDI's, none of which I have driven. When speaking to efficiency I always need to caveat this properly, since according to the EPA a gallon of diesel produces 14 percent more CO2 than a gallon of petrol. Still - the 335d gives WRX-level grunt with waaaaay better efficiency and a nicer ride. Brake boosting in M2 will lay serious rubber. And it would have been nicer with a limited slip dif.

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## DieselRacer (Apr 22, 2014)

DnA Diesel said:


> Tony, having recently taken both a 328d and a 535d for some drives to keep my local dealer thinking about me (and my 150,000km 335d  ), I can say that when the time comes to move beyond the 335d (and I think that may still be a while....I'm thinking I may try for a 1/4 million km on the beast before I move on) I am leaning towards the 535d. Either that, or see if that rumbling about a BlueTec CLA I heard about when my wife and I picked up her GLK turns out to be true...that would be a fun car. I think what one of the other guys said about the 328d being a CAFE focused car for BMW is largely true. It wasn't that the 328d was necessarily bad, just that it did not, at the root of driving it, seem like the UDM. I think the 335d spoiled me, and set me up for high expectations on subsequent purchases. I know that some didn't like the RWD aspect of the 335d, but having grown up in the Great White North, and driven my 335d pretty much in the snow belt of Eastern and Northeastern Ontario for five years, I still have no issue with RWD. Of course, al bets would be off if the 550dx ever came over here....I think I'd be putting a kidney on Kajijii for that! :rofl:
> 
> Cheers
> D.


A kidney for a kidney grill on a BMW.:bigpimp:


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## DieselRacer (Apr 22, 2014)

tonyspumoni said:


> Any mating of the F30 chassis and the inline 6 diesel would get my serious attention. That Polestar does look cool - except for that silly blue paint job.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


meee too, but I want a white one...


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

I just read that Volvo plans to import 40 of the sedan and 60 of the wagon. Better not try negotiating the color and take the baby blue.

I too lust after that M550d. I even decided to tilt at some windmills and send some emails to BMW telling them I want it. I have dreams about meeting some nice diplomat who would import one - this is legal btw - and then return home, selling the car to me.

Sigh. I guess I will just have to keep scorching the tires off the 335d til it breaks and then keep the fingers crossed that someone has something similar around. I have at least two problems with the new WRX - it is dog ugly and it burns a lot of fuel to get good performance. I might look at the Audi S3 when it comes out despite just ok reviews. 


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## stevehecht (Apr 13, 2007)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> They also could've brought over the 325d (200+ hp) instead


Just to inform some and remind others that the 325d numbers can be had with the simple addition of a piggyback tuning module for $300 (JBD) to $400 (RaceChip). The latter brings hp to 223 I believe which should make a noticeable difference in turbo lag and acceleration in higher gears. Lb-ft goes to 332 I think.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

Personally I would rather see the PPK from europe. If you go on YouTube the ppk beats the piggyback systems all the time. They may give you more power but a true ecu tune will give better results even if it only gives 20 hp


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## stevehecht (Apr 13, 2007)

Hangman4358 said:


> Personally I would rather see the PPK from europe. If you go on YouTube the ppk beats the piggyback systems all the time. They may give you more power but a true ecu tune will give better results even if it only gives 20 hp


The PPK for the d in NA is a pipedream, for now anyway. I think BMW knows that the vast majority of d owners (99%?) were motivated to purchase based on mpg mpg and are quite content with the grunt already provided by the engine. If you're interested in more power and/or better handling for the foreseeable future you'd be better off looking at what's actually available in the market currently.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

I know it is. I really don't have a need for more power though so i am content with what I have. The ppk would be one of those if it exists I'll buy it otherwise i won't even think about it purchases


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Hangman4358 said:


> I know it is. I really don't have a need for more power though so i am content with what I have. The ppk would be one of those if it exists I'll buy it otherwise i won't even think about it purchases


hangman. I just re-read from yours back a couple of posts and saw mine. the WRX is still ugly but it will grow on me. your points about the 328d are apt. I really hope for the 328d owners that BMW has resolved both incipient CBU and an unacceptably high rats of emissions problems.

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