# lug wrench? torque wrench?



## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Got some newbie questions. I'm going to buy winter tires and I'm planning to change them out myself. Never done this before, but from what I understand, since the tires come with the wheels balanced and mounted from Tire Rack, all I have to worry about is changing them out twice a year, right?

So to change them out, I got the Craftsman 2 1/4 ton floor jack (on sale for $30 from Sears). Contrary to what some other people were saying, it fit under my ZHP with no problems whatsoever. I'm not sure where to position it, though. I guess that's what the manual is for, but if some kind soul wishes to help me out, I'd be appreciative.

Okay, so the process is: stick jack under car, lift the car, maybe put some jackstands underneath (since they don't seem completely necessary, I decided against purchasing them until I start changing my own oil), use a 17mm socket lug wrench (I bought a metal four-prong Craftsman metric lug wrench with 17, 19, 21, and 22mm sockets for $10 from Sears) to take the lug bolts off. Do I need to take them off in a star pattern, or is that not necessary? BTW, I have the BMW wheel locks, but are they supposed to come with instructions on how to mount/dismount them? Or is it pretty intuitive how to do that? (I haven't looked at them yet.)

Then I take the Tire Rack wheel/tire, stick it on, (I read that some Leather Z wheel pin thing is supposed to make that easier? I'll probably wait to buy that until I decide I really need it, even though it would bring me to within one piece of a complete toolkit...), and use the lug wrench to tighten the bolts in a star pattern. Oh, I can use the BMW wheel locks on the winter tires, right?

Finally, I read that I'm supposed to lower the car and then use a torque wrench to make sure the bolts are torqued properly at 88 N-m?

Assuming all that is right, let me ask this: I've always heard that when you mount tires manually, you can just tighten the bolts using a wrench and then, when you've tightened them, just give one more twist and you're set. In fact, when I've seen the roadside service people change tires, they just jack it up, use an electric tool to undo the bolts, mount the tire, and then screw the bolts back in. No torque checking or anything...

Last question: do I need to get a separate lug wrench and torque wrench? Does a torque wrench double up? Should I return the cross-shaped lug wrench I got from Sears?

TVMIA.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

swchang said:


> Got some newbie questions. I'm going to buy winter tires and I'm planning to change them out myself. Never done this before, but from what I understand, since the tires come with the wheels balanced and mounted from Tire Rack, all I have to worry about is changing them out twice a year, right?
> 
> So to change them out, I got the Craftsman 2 1/4 ton floor jack (on sale for $30 from Sears). Contrary to what some other people were saying, it fit under my ZHP with no problems whatsoever. I'm not sure where to position it, though. I guess that's what the manual is for, but if some kind soul wishes to help me out, I'd be appreciative.
> 
> ...


With a jack like that, only use the jack points. There are 4 of them... there should be these black block like chunks near each wheel. Those are the jack points. Be careful the jack doesn't slip. If you have the $30 jack I'm thinking of, the jack head is quite small.
Definitely use jack stands if you have them. Use wheel chocks. Your car comes with a small metal one. Consider getting some bigger rubber/plastic ones for regular use. They're not that expensive. Cross-shaped one you got is okay for breaking lugs off, and can be especially handy when you have a different car to work on too.

I use a breaker bar to break lugs loose and a torque wrench to tighten the lugs. Breaking lugs off doesn't really require the star pattern. Don't use a torque wrench to break lugs off with. That's not what it's for. Periodically you will want to check your torques on the lugs after some time of driving. After someone has slapped the lugs on with an air impact wrench or whatever tool, I always undo and re-torque the lugs.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

doeboy said:


> ... Your car comes with a small metal one.


Hmm, have not found this as yet, what am I looking for? 

I'll go and look in the trunk today...

(PS Good Thread -- have same questions myself :thumbup: )


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

1) Break the lugs loose BEFORE you jack up the car. This will become REALLY obvious the first time you do a front tire.

2) The jack points are under the rocker panel just in front of the rear wheels, just behind the front wheels. Get down on your hands and knees and they are pretty obvious. Watch the cheapy jacks as they might not actually contact the jack pad, but the cup (and some have prongs) contact the body work. This will work, but it is not optimum. This a big reason why I like the AAl racing jacks as they have a big round FLAT rubber pad.

3) Since when are roadside guys experts? What they do, sort of works for steel wheels, but not Al wheels. What they do may cause lug bolt/stud damage over time. The ONLY proper way to do it, is to tighten the lugs just a little more than hand tight while the car is up, then use a torque wrench once the car is on tire. Yes, if you do it enough, you can learn to get fairly close with torque, but trust me, if you trust your feel, sooner or later you will snap a lug off (great fun) or loose q lug one day from being too loose. USE A TORQUE WRENCH.

Another approach, would you assemble an engine by feel? Nope, but what are the consequences? The car stops moving. What are the consequences of improper lug tightness? Possibly loosing the wheel and losing control of the car and destroying it and loosing your life. Now why would you torque every fasterner in an engine and rely on feel for the lugs?


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## Chris325i (Dec 31, 2001)

Another thing, get a jar or tube of anti-seize paste from your local Pep Boys or whatever. After removing the wheels, clean up the hub with a wire brush or an old scrubbing pad and apply a thin coat of anti-seize to the center of the hub (the 'ring' part where the wheel seats).

You'll thank yourself next time you take the wheels off, this area gets rusty and can make getting the wheels off very difficult. First time I took off my rear wheels I had to lay on the ground and kick both sides as hard as I could. Others have used a rubber mallet or 2x4 from the opposite side.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Yo schwang, I did this very same swap out in December and sprained my back in the process (damn those wheels are heavy).

Here's something things I learned. 

(1) Make sure the jack is secure and you use the jack points under the car if you are off you will get an imbalanced jack that will move around as you push the wheels onto the car so be careful.
(2) Make sure that you loosen the nuts while the car is on the ground (see comment about front tires above)
(3) MAke sure you tighten in a star pattern with a torque wrench and then after 1 week of driving retighten. You'll note that they will be a little loose.
(4) If you are doing this in the cold, make sure you get some help (wife, significant other, friend). You can injure your back like I did.

Z


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

wingspan said:


> Hmm, have not found this as yet, what am I looking for?
> 
> I'll go and look in the trunk today...
> 
> (PS Good Thread -- have same questions myself :thumbup: )


It's in the trunk... where the jack and spare tire are.


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## AG (Apr 24, 2002)

1) If the lug bolts you get with your new wheels are the same as your BMW lugs, i.e. dimensions and conical shape, then you should be able to use your wheel locks. Personally, I would just use the BMW lugs, if you can, over the stuff Tire Rack supplies as they seem to hold up better against corrosion.

2) The torque spec is 120 N-m (or 88 lb-ft), not 88 N-m.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I just went through the process of buying better equipment to do my winter wheel swap, and the best money I spent was on this breaker bar. For a few bucks, it makes taking off the lugs much easier than the stock lug wrench.










http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/tools/pw1.jsp

I also got a Sears aluminum racing jack, so I can just jack up the front and the back of the car, rather than having to jack the car four times...










http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41605&highlight=sears+jack

Also got a wheel pin, wheel chocks, and I previously had a torque wrench.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

doeboy said:



> It's in the trunk... where the jack and spare tire are.


Do you E46ers have the S-shaped lug removal tool there, too? I use that to break the lugs when I'm taking wheels off. Works well.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> Do you E46ers have the S-shaped lug removal tool there, too? I use that to break the lugs when I'm taking wheels off. Works well.


Are you talking about something other than the lug wrench?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> Do you E46ers have the S-shaped lug removal tool there, too? I use that to break the lugs when I'm taking wheels off. Works well.


Well... there is the stock lug wrench... which looks sorta S shaped I guess... more like a zig-zag I'd say.... yes, it's usable to break lugs off... but it sucks.... when I got my flat, I had to use it... what a PITA...


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Another thing, the LeatherZ or Strong Strut pins are INVALUABLE. Remember these cars have lug BOLYS, not lug NUTS. So when you take them off, there is nothing to locate the wheel in rotation and nothing to support the wheel while you get the frist couple of nuts started.

Yes you can do it without them, but it is so much easier with them.

WRT jack, notice the flat rubber pad on teh pictures "racing" jask, very nice for BMWs.

If you are pulling the wheels twice a year (winters on and off) the lube is not as neceaary, but it is a good thing to do. If you put your wheels on for the life of the tires, it is a REALLY good idea. What with tracking ans such, I don't bother, and haven't had a problem. But I am concerned about how easy/hard the rotors will be to get off. Tehy WILL get antisieze.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

I will be changing tires only twice a year. Summers to winters and back. Help me go cheapie (but still pretty good quality) in my tool purchases...

So I bought that $30 2 1/4 ton jack from Sears. I'll see if it's acceptable, but I might end up springing for the Aluminum racing jack instead if it's still on sale.

I bought a cross-shaped Craftsman lug wrench from Sears for $10. This will be helpful in breaking the lugs (is that loosening them or taking them off entirely?). If the OE lug wrench is pretty good, as Roadstergal suggested, should I just return the Craftsman and use the included piece to remove my lugs?

To tighten the lugs, can I just use the torque wrench, or do I need to use the lug wrench to tighten and then the torque wrench to check the torquing? If the latter, maybe I should keep the $10 wrench? If the former, it'll probably be returned. (Any suggestions on a pretty good but cheap torque wrench? Some people were bashing Craftsman, but if it's cheap and if I'm only changing things out twice a year...)

Anti-sieze, wheel chocks, jack stands, wheel pins, and breaker bars I'm going to forego for now... Is there anything else I really NEED? I think the three tools above (jack, torque wrench, and something(s) to loosen/remove/tighten the lugs) are pretty much the barebones, right?

Thanks for all the good tips so far, everyone. It's invaluable advice to a newbie like me.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

swchang said:


> So I bought that $30 2 1/4 ton jack from Sears. I'll see if it's acceptable, but I might end up springing for the Aluminum racing jack instead if it's still on sale.


Cheapie and good tools usually don't go with each other. However, for economical floor jacks, check out Harbor Freight or some store like your local Pep Boys or something. You'll likely have to pay a little more than $30, but hey... would you rather have a chance of the jack failing or tipping over dropping the car and causing damage? You CAN save some money in this area... but don't go too cheap. It's yours and your car's safety. Just my two cents. I saw in the newspaper about two weeks ago that the local Pep Boys has a 2.5-ton capacity racing jack for $78 or so. Not a bad deal... yet probably way more sturdy than the little $30 jacks with the small jack heads.



> I bought a cross-shaped Craftsman lug wrench from Sears for $10. This will be helpful in breaking the lugs (is that loosening them or taking them off entirely?). If the OE lug wrench is pretty good, as Roadstergal suggested, should I just return the Craftsman and use the included piece to remove my lugs?


This is a handy tool if you don't want to use an actual breaker bar. Very practical and you can use it on virtually any car with metric lugs since it has different sizes. The OE lug wrench sucks IMO... but I've been spoiled by my breaker bar.  I'd rather break my lugs loose with a breaker bar than have to lean my body weight into the OE lug wrench to take lugs off. (Which I have done before, but only because I wasn't at home and I got a flat)

Break the lugs loose but don't take them completely off... then raise the car, and then proceed to undo the lugs.



> To tighten the lugs, can I just use the torque wrench, or do I need to use the lug wrench to tighten and then the torque wrench to check the torquing? If the latter, maybe I should keep the $10 wrench? If the former, it'll probably be returned. (Any suggestions on a pretty good but cheap torque wrench? Some people were bashing Craftsman, but if it's cheap and if I'm only changing things out twice a year...)


Harbor Freight carries cheap torque wrenches that are like $19-29. If you're only using it to tighten lugs, that one will probably be just fine. Always remember to unset the torque after use... this will make the torque wrench last longer before it needs a calibration. Spin each lug on in a star pattern until the wheel is snugly fit to the hub. Lower the car enough so the tire makes contact with the ground so it doesn't spin, but not all the way down. Then proceed to tighten the lugs in the same star pattern.



> Anti-sieze, wheel chocks, jack stands, wheel pins, and breaker bars I'm going to forego for now... Is there anything else I really NEED? I think the three tools above (jack, torque wrench, and something(s) to loosen/remove/tighten the lugs) are pretty much the barebones, right?


If you don't want to buy wheel chocks, use the OE one... or get a 2x4 and stick it in front of the wheel. But USE SOMETHING. You don't want the car to roll incase the jack tips over. But if you get one of the wider stance racing jacks, chances this will happen is nearly nil. Jack Stands, maybe not necessary if all you're doing is changing wheels... but don't get under the car without jack stands. Anti-seize... not really necessary, but you may have some difficulty getting the wheels to come off like some have mentioned. Wheel pin, not really necessary... but it does make the job easier. Breaker bar, not necessary, but you will probably be more tired.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

doeboy said:


> Harbor Freight carries cheap torque wrenches that are like $19-29. If you're only using it to tighten lugs, that one will probably be just fine. Always remember to unset the torque after use... this will make the torque wrench last longer before it needs a calibration. Spin each lug on in a star pattern until the wheel is snugly fit to the hub. Lower the car enough so the tire makes contact with the ground so it doesn't spin, but not all the way down. Then proceed to tighten the lugs in the same star pattern.
> 
> If you don't want to buy wheel chocks, use the OE one... or get a 2x4 and stick it in front of the wheel. But USE SOMETHING. You don't want the car to roll incase the jack tips over. But if you get one of the wider stance racing jacks, chances this will happen is nearly nil. Jack Stands, maybe not necessary if all you're doing is changing wheels... but don't get under the car without jack stands. Anti-seize... not really necessary, but you may have some difficulty getting the wheels to come off like some have mentioned. Wheel pin, not really necessary... but it does make the job easier. Breaker bar, not necessary, but you will probably be more tired.


Hey, thanks a lot for all your advice.  Got a couple questions, if you don't mind.

1) You say "if you're only using [the torque wrench] to tighten lugs" it'll be sufficient. What else would/could I use it for? It has other uses?

2) Is one wheel chock enough? I think you said earlier that only one OE chock is supplied? If one is enough, do I put that in front of the front wheel if the back is jacked up (assuming I'm on level ground) and in back of the back wheel if the front is jacked up? Should it be on the other side of the car from that which is raised, or the same side? And if I am on a slight slope, I guess I put the chock behind the wheel(s)?

TIA!


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

swchang said:


> Hey, thanks a lot for all your advice.  Got a couple questions, if you don't mind.
> 
> 1) You say "if you're only using [the torque wrench] to tighten lugs" it'll be sufficient. What else would/could I use it for? It has other uses?
> 
> ...


Torque wrenches are made to tighten fasteners to a specified torque. Many fasteners on the car have a specified torque that should be used. Some fasteners can be tightened to the point where it's snug but not too tight.... others should not be over-tightened... in which case, the torque wrench comes in handy as it will tighten to a specified value, then give you some sort of indication when you've reached the torque setting you desire. For example, many torque wrenches we use now will give an audible click when you reach the specified torque setting that you've dialed into the wrench. (Yes, it's adjustable) 
I wouldn't use a cheapo Harbor Frieght one to build engines with (not that I'd even know how to actually build an engine in the first place).

2) One is generally enough to get by. a 2x4 piece of wood is a good "emergency" solution too when a real chock isn't available... if you are lifting the back of the car, you want to stick the chock in front of the wheels that are still on the ground. If you're lifting the front of the car, put the chock behind the rear wheels (which would be on the ground). If you're on a slight slope... well... let's just say you should be on as level a surface as possible. If you can't avoid it, put the chock wherever it will get in the way and help stop the wheels from moving in the direction you think the car might want to roll in. Yes... opposite side from the one being jacked up is the optimal place... if you're jacking the rear left... put the chock in front of the right front.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

doeboy said:


> Well... there is the stock lug wrench... which looks sorta S shaped I guess... more like a zig-zag I'd say.... yes, it's usable to break lugs off... but it sucks.... when I got my flat, I had to use it... what a PITA...


Huh. Mine takes off 80ft-lb bolts fine. But I haven't had to do it by the side of the road in rain yet...

OK, OK, it's shaped like Zeus's thunderbolt.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> Huh. Mine takes off 80ft-lb bolts fine. But I haven't had to do it by the side of the road in rain yet...
> 
> OK, OK, it's shaped like Zeus's thunderbolt.


Yeah but it feels different putting 88lbs of force onto a 1ft lever than 60some lbs of pressure on an 18" lever...

fortunately it wasn't in the rain when I had to do it.... but it it were, it'd be that much harder I'd imagine... chances of slipping, etc etc....

Yeah... Zeus' thunderbolt...


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

A few things:

Check that the cross bar wrench fits. Some do not work on aluminum wheels because the socket walls are too thick. If it fits without touching the wheel AT ALL, they are nice. You can use them to spin the bolts off and on quickly. Almost as fast as an air tool.

I use a breaker bar with a socket, then switch the socket to the torque wrench to tighten. Harbor Frieght sells sockets with a plastic outer coating to protect your wheels. I have a set, but use a basic 6 point deep 17mm socket (that means the nut end has 6 flats, the socket is qabout 2.4" long, and is for 17mm nuts). The gorilla bar sold by Tire Rack is very nice also.

Breaking the nuts loose, means to turn them about 1/4 turn to loosen them, without backing them off the wheel significantly. Most of the tightening force is over the first/last very small range of motion.

For putting them back on, you want to get the snug before you lower the car. After you do it a time or two, you can get close. But you don't want to go over. After you set the corner down, torque the bolts in a star pattern. After you get done with all 4 wheels go around and torque them again. This is for two reasons: 1) to make sure you didn't miss any, and 2) with a lot of fasteners you torque them twice to make sure.

If you end up changing your tires a good bit (like get into tracking or autocross) consider changing the lug bolts every couple of years. They do stretch and get to the point where they will not stay torqued. If you get really serious, change to lug studs and nuts. Then you won't need the location pins.

If you get the locator pins, you take out two bolts that are not side by side, but near the top. Put int he pins, then remove the other three bolts. Slide the wheel off. SLide the wheel on using the pins, and start one lug bolt. Run this one up to just barely snug while wiggling the wheel around. You want to make sure it is close to being seated. Then put in the other 2 lug bolts, and do the same thing. Then pull the pins and put the lug bolts in those holes.

With BMWs make sure you keep track of which are front and which are rear tires, and even left and right. Put them back on the same way each time you change the tires. BMWs do NOT like rotating the tires.


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