# Lease 320i. Questions/Rate Lease



## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

So, I have multiple questions (I feel like all my threads are like that). Feel free to answer. Not looking for some lecture, or judgment on my parents, or some ridiculous crap like that.


Thanks to a friend that works at BMW, I am looking at a lease. Unfortunately, despite making a solid amount, I have crap credit (apparently, just enough to qualify). The lease is as followed.


2015 320i (Silver, but I am making sure it is a black version)
7 Miles
Sports Package
Lighting Package

MSRP 41.7k
Sales Price: 32k 
Trade In: -3k (Don't need a lecture here.)

Lease comes out to 36 Months for 500 dollars. 


1. The numbers don't really seem like they add up, EVEN with bad credit, do they? Residual wise, does this even make sense!?
2. If I get a cosigner (I have one in mind, 640 credit score, will this DRASTICALLY change my payments, my guess is no, but curious as to why this is so important)
3. Is the sales price good, despite the final payment being pretty staunch. 
4. I have nothing left to ask at this point, or merely forgot. 

Thanks!


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

How many miles in the lease? Do you know the money factor and residual?
Is the negative equity in the trade going into the capitalized cost of the lease?


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

bimmerbuff said:


> How many miles in the lease? Do you know the money factor and residual?
> Is the negative equity in the trade going into the capitalized cost of the lease?


Working on finding out the rest of this information right now. Everything is being done lazily over text. Residual is the MSPR right, and not the negotiated price. Correct?


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Okay, here it is.


Money Factor: .00170
Residual: 65%
Lease Term: 10k/36 months


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Also requires 1k down for lease/fees/acquisition/first month


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Educate yourself on leases. It will help. The money factor is maxed mark up. Base is .0013. But as you said with bad credit that could be why. But I'd insist on base. Guessing the aqc fee is also marked up to $995?

Residual is the value of the car at the very end of the 36 months. Also. 320is are leasing for $269 right now. Check out the BMWUSA website special offers page. You're paying nearly double that. Are you sure this is a NEW BMW? Also with those packages the MSRP should be only $36,795. What else is on that car? A 335i leases for $439 so something isn't right here.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kjboyd said:


> Educate yourself on leases. It will help. The money factor is maxed mark up. Base is .0013. But as you said with bad credit that could be why. But I'd insist on base. Guessing the aqc fee is also marked up to $995?
> 
> Residual is the value of the car at the very end of the 36 months. Also. 320is are leasing for $269 right now. Check out the BMWUSA website special offers page. You're paying nearly double that. Are you sure this is a NEW BMW? Also with those packages the MSRP should be only $36,795. What else is on that car? A 335i leases for $439 so something isn't right here.


Doing all I can.

I am completely aware of the money factor being higher than it should be (we both said that). I am guessing with my trade in (negative), only 1k down, and horrible credit score, that could be the factors.


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## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

WarrENDeatH said:


> Okay, here it is.
> 
> Money Factor: .00170
> Residual: 65%
> Lease Term: 10k/36 months


My guess is your credit is okay for top tier, they are just taking a mark-up... (as noted above)

Seems like a high payment, even with the negative equity


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kjboyd said:


> Educate yourself on leases. It will help. The money factor is maxed mark up. Base is .0013. But as you said with bad credit that could be why. But I'd insist on base. Guessing the aqc fee is also marked up to $995?
> 
> Residual is the value of the car at the very end of the 36 months. Also. 320is are leasing for $269 right now. Check out the BMWUSA website special offers page. You're paying nearly double that. Are you sure this is a NEW BMW? Also with those packages the MSRP should be only $36,795. What else is on that car? A 335i leases for $439 so something isn't right here.


Looking DIRECTLY at the sheet via text message picture.

Sale Price: 32.9k
Trade Allowance: 11k (I have been told it will be bumped up to 11.5k)
Net Payoff: 14.6k
Customer Cash: 1k

1k Down Is:
First Month Payment: 500
Upfront Charges: 371
Total Cap Reduction: 128

Money Factor: .00170(I have been told this is based off old credit score, and could change accordingly)
Residual Value: 65%

This is a TEMPLATE. I loathe the color, and a few other things.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kyfdx said:


> My guess is your credit is okay for top tier, they are just taking a mark-up... (as noted above)
> 
> Seems like a high payment, even with the negative equity


No. My credit is the lowest tier available.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kjboyd said:


> Educate yourself on leases. It will help. The money factor is maxed mark up. Base is .0013. But as you said with bad credit that could be why. But I'd insist on base. Guessing the aqc fee is also marked up to $995?
> 
> Residual is the value of the car at the very end of the 36 months. Also. 320is are leasing for $269 right now. Check out the BMWUSA website special offers page. You're paying nearly double that. Are you sure this is a NEW BMW? Also with those packages the MSRP should be only $36,795. What else is on that car? A 335i leases for $439 so something isn't right here.


Those require extensive down-payments though!? Wouldn't that greatly change just about everything?


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

If you LOATHE the color why the heck are you considering it? You asked for opinions.... Don't do it. It's a bad financial decision.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kjboyd said:


> If you LOATHE the color why the heck are you considering it? You asked for opinions.... Don't do it. It's a bad financial decision.


We are using it for template sake until we can find me a similar color.

I require opinions to know what is wrong, so I can fix it.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

WarrENDeatH said:


> I am completely aware of the money factor being higher than it should be (we both said that). I am guessing with my trade in (negative), only 1k down, and horrible credit score, that could be the factors.


I don't know how the money factor moves versus lower credit scores. It could just be marked up as others have said.

Again, is the negative equity in the trade being rolled into the capitalized cost of the lease?


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

bimmerbuff said:


> I don't know how the money factor moves versus lower credit scores. It could just be marked up as others have said.
> 
> Again, is the negative equity in the trade being rolled into the capitalized cost of the lease?


I don't either. Hence why I was asking. He has done crazy deals for my friend and I, and I believe he is being genuine here.

The negative equity IS being rolled into the capitalized cost.

How much would the additional .0040 add to monthly payments!? I'm not even sure the mathematic factors that is.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

So, based off residual value, and turn in and everything, I came up with 469 (Money factor adds in 31 dollars, does this sound about right). Removing my car (3 grand) would put it around 390.


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## drunkm0nk3y (Feb 16, 2015)

based on my experience. if your credit score is low. (whats the number?) it will slot you in one of these lease tiers based on my research. 

Top tier is 675+ - 3.1%
2nd tier is 640-674 - add 1%
3rd tier is 601-639 - add 2%
4th tier is 575-600 - add 3%

so if the current money factor is .00130 for top tier. you are getting 2nd tier +/-.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

WarrENDeatH said:


> So, based off residual value, and turn in and everything, I came up with 469 (Money factor adds in 31 dollars, does this sound about right). Removing my car (3 grand) would put it around 390.


The best available money factor requires a credit score of 675 or above. The second best money factor requires a credit score of at least 640 (640-674). I believe the current best money factor is 0.0013, which is equivalent to an APR of 3.12. I believe the second best money factor is 0.0017, which is equivalent to an APR of 4.12.

If your credit score is less than 675 but at least 640, they are quoting you the best possible money factor, 0.0017, and they are not marking it up at all. That's a great deal. They're allowed to mark it up to 0.0021, at their option.

The lender (BMWFS) charges a lease acquisition fee of at least $795 on every lease. They allow the dealer to mark it up to $995, at their option. That's another thing that is open to negotiation between you and the dealer.

If your total drive-off money is only $1,000, then it sounds like they might be asking for the minimum possible. The minimum would be just the first monthly lease payment but many people want to pay the lease acquisition fee, the license and title fee and maybe even the dealer "doc fee" as part of their drive-off money. All of that would be much more than $1,000. You need to know exactly what is included in the drive-off money and what is rolled into the cap cost.

If your trade-in has $3,100 of negative equity, all of that is being rolled into the cap cost, which means you are paying that amount in full, plus "intrest" (rent charge) during the 36 months. This alone adds approximately a hundred bucks to your payment.

Without bothering to calculate an actual payment, it looks to me like they may be giving you a great deal. In order for anyone to comment on that, you would have to post a lot more information that what you have provided so far. I'm talking about the breakdown in the numbers.

Good luck!


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

WarrENDeatH said:


> Also requires 1k down for lease/fees/acquisition/first month


If your total drive-off money is only $1,000, then it doesn't cover all of the items you list because the lease acquisition fee alone is a minimum of $795. Find out exactly what is included in the drive-off money and what was rolled into the cap cost.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

The dealer is charging you a "doc fee," which is often rolled into the cap cost. Like the "lease acquisition fee," the "doc fee" is not an official fee but it is something that is allowed by law. All dealers, regardless of make of car, charge this "doc fee." Some states regulated the amount that the dealer is allowed to charge for this "doc fee" but most of them don't.

California, for example, regulates the "doc fee" and it cannot exceed $80. If your state doesn't regulate the "doc fee," then you may be paying more than that. It's just something to be aware of, not something you can usually negotiate. In some states dealers charge as much as $249 for this "fee" and in others it may be $449. In Florida, dealers actually charge as much as $699 for this "fee."


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kjboyd said:


> http://www.bmwarchive.org/vin/ns74959.pdf
> 
> Here is the car spec sheet from BMW VIN.


Weird, it says it has the LP on it, but it's not listed that way on the site. Incorrect information, or what?

Also, what packages are you guys a fan of? Everyone loves the sports package. I think so far the one that sticks out to me the most is the LP. Just curious. I like Nav, not sure it's worth the amount though.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

It was built April 2, 2015 in South Africa, so it's a fresh car and the in-service date will be very recent. Whatever options you see listed on the VIN decoding site are what the car has on it. Any other information that differs from that is in error. The dealers frequently neglect to list all the options that a car has. They just overlook some of them.

The MSRP sticker will agree with what you see on the VIN decoding site.

P.S. -- No need to drag your father into the price discussions on this car or you will never get this resolved. Unless you want your father to know everything. What's that old saying about too many cooks?


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Ninong said:


> It was built April 2, 2015 in South Africa, so it's a fresh car and the in-service date will be very recent. Whatever options you see listed on the VIN decoding site are what the car has on it. Any other information that differs from that is in error. The dealers frequently neglect to list all the options that a car has. They just overlook some of them.
> 
> The MSRP sticker will agree with what you see on the VIN decoding site.
> 
> P.S. -- No need to drag your father into the price discussions on this car or you will never get this resolved. Unless you want your father to know everything. What's that old saying about too many cooks?


You're right. Good point.

I am looking at a few others, similiar prices, just different options. I am not a fan of the silver, to be honest, and prefer darker colors. I have found two jet blacks, and the blue. The options vary on them from navigation, lighting, sports, etc. I wish I could just find LP and SP together. Oh well. The only difference with those is they have 1500+ miles on them.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Finally decided to do some 'adult' things and check out the insurance for the 3 series. My Girlfriend has Progressive, and they quoted me at 230/month. No thanks. I checked AllState, 225/month. I then checked Geico, built it around my preferences and got it to 160. I then checked Nationwide and that was 130 for the premium package (pretty surprised by all the crap that it came with). So happy there, considering I have just a recommended package on my car and pay 120 for that.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

So, I have a question...I have the hots for this model.


2015 320xi Jet Black

Nav
Moonroof/ Heated Seats
Driving Assistance
Sports Package


2.5k miles.


What should I ask for it?


Also, there is a similar model (close in miles) ONLY difference is it has the LIGHTING package over the SPORTS one.


What would be a good offer for these demos? I might try and take a stab at these over the silver.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

WarrENDeatH said:


> Also, there is a similar model (close in miles) ONLY difference is it has the LIGHTING package over the SPORTS one.


You will miss the Xenon lights. The halogens on these cars are reflectors and nowhere near as nice as the HID Xenons.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

You really need to slow down and take a step back. For these new cars we'd need to know the MSRP of the cars, plus how long they have been on the lot, were they really demos or are they store loaners, all these things make a difference. 

To me it feels like you are emotionally shopping right now and that will always get you a bad bad deal in the end. Take the "being an adult" theme one step further and just slow down a bit. I know you have a road trip coming up but this is a huge commitment and you need to just take a deep breath and do this systematically. 

i also agree you will miss the Xenons.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

WarrENDeatH said:


> I am looking at a few others, similiar prices, just different options. I am not a fan of the silver, to be honest, and prefer darker colors. I have found two jet blacks, and the blue. The options vary on them from navigation, lighting, sports, etc. I wish I could just find LP and SP together. Oh well. The only difference with those is they have 1500+ miles on them.


Buy the car that excites you the most, assuming the numbers work out. Don't forget to consider the options, because that's just as important as color.



WarrENDeatH said:


> My Girlfriend has Progressive, and they quoted me at 230/month. No thanks. I checked AllState, 225/month. I then checked Geico, built it around my preferences and got it to 160. I then checked Nationwide and that was 130 for the premium package (pretty surprised by all the crap that it came with). So happy there, considering I have just a recommended package on my car and pay 120 for that.


Do you know exactly what shows up on your driver's license? Did you or any of the insurance companies already run it with DMV? That's extremely important because any quotes that are not based on exactly what shows up, if anything, will be incorrect.

Insurance is like most things it life: you get what you pay for. Rates are set by the state insurance commissioner in each state in that each insurance company has to petition for a rate increase by showing their actual loss experience on the group they are seeking to increase. In that sense, it could be that one company has higher rates on single male drivers under 25 driving new high performance cars or pickups with manual transmissions (one of the groups with the highest accident rates). So maybe one company's rates on that vehicle could be higher than others.

However, in general, once a person gets into the standard rate brackets (single males over 30 or married males over 25) then rates will be pretty comparable across companies in the same state other than the fact that GEICO has no commissioned agents (saving you around 15%) and companies like Progressive offer stripped policies that leave out a lot of coverage that is standard in regular insurance companies. And they all offer all sorts of extra-cost riders or options. Just make sure you're comparing apples with apples when shopping for insurance because not all policies are the same and not all companies have the same reputation for the way they handle claims.



WarrENDeatH said:


> So, I have a question...I have the hots for this model.
> 
> 2015 320xi Jet Black
> 
> ...


That's up to you. Just don't lose sight of the fact that the dealership has an approved deal (I assume) for you on the silver car so any substitute should be approximately the same price with approximately the same MSRP. If you're looking at one with 2,500 miles instead of 335 miles, offer them $500-$750 less. Don't forget to consider the in-service date! Just remember that your salesman is a friend of yours and you should let him guide you in this situation. You're not really in the driver's seat, which is why I wouldn't advise bouncing around from one dealership to another and muddying up the waters. Seriously. Wait until three years from now to do some more intense negotiations after this lease is behind you.

Good luck! Just remember to buy the car you like the most and to be careful when comparing insurance policies. If the insurance company doesn't already have a copy of your DMV driving record, they will bump up your rates within days after writing the policy if something shows up that they didn't know about. And, of course, you are required to get the minimum coverage required by your BMWFS lease, which is going to be considerably higher than minimum state requirements.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Also keep in mind you need higher coverage on a lease. 100/300 usually and a lower deductible.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

kjboyd said:


> Also keep in mind you need higher coverage on a lease. 100/300 usually and a lower deductible.


100/300 and maximum $1,000 deductible.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

So, he sent me the offer sheet. 

Looks like the 1k down payment is back (but everything is accounted for). 

Not only that, but the payment is now down to 450/month. Looks like it accounts for 37k total cap cost. Thoughts!?


So, recap.

Two weeks ago it started at 500/month 10k miles. 

Last week it was 479/month 10k miles.

Now it's 450/month 10k miles.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Share the offer sheet please


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Hopefully it uploads!


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Note, this is for the silver, with 500 miles (I thought it had 7, then 300 but it has 500, official). Comes with sports package, driver assistance. I wish it had lighting. I really wanting lighting.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

WarrENDeatH said:


> Note, this is for the silver, with 500 miles (I thought it had 7, then 300 but it has 500, official). Comes with sports package, driver assistance. I wish it had lighting. I really wanting lighting.


I thought the car you were originally looking at was a silver 320i with the Lighting Package?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

WarrENDeatH said:


> I wish it had lighting. I really wanting lighting.


Why doesn't it have lighting? The silver car you told us about previously does have lighting. Is this a different silver car?


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

so what's the actual MSRP price of the car? $41,740? is this the same car you posted the link for? a 320 with just sport and drivers with sunroof and heated seats should only be $40,095. the car you posted the link for also is an xDrive. so where does the extra $1645 come from? you know it doesn't have leather right?

i still can't see from the sales contract what the acquisition fee is... is the MF still .0017.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Ninong said:


> Why doesn't it have lighting? The silver car you told us about previously does have lighting. Is this a different silver car?


Same one. I apologize for the confusion, no lighting package on this one. Unfortunately.



kjboyd said:


> so what's the actual MSRP price of the car? $41,740? is this the same car you posted the link for? a 320 with just sport and drivers with sunroof and heated seats should only be $40,095. the car you posted the link for also is an xDrive. so where does the extra $1645 come from? you know it doesn't have leather right?
> 
> i still can't see from the sales contract what the acquisition fee is... is the MF still .0017.


It doesn't? And yes, the money factor is still at .0017.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

kjboyd said:


> so what's the actual MSRP price of the car? $41,740? is this the same car you posted the link for? a 320 with just sport and drivers with sunroof and heated seats should only be $40,095. the car you posted the link for also is an xDrive. so where does the extra $1645 come from? you know it doesn't have leather right?
> 
> i still can't see from the sales contract what the acquisition fee is... is the MF still .0017.


But wait, with a lower MSRP, doesn't that hurt me, more than help me!? I am confused about this part, especially when the same residual rate carries over.

The 450 is still high, considering what is being offered. I am still waiting it out, and like you guys said, have no plans of making an irrational decision right now. There is a black one with a few more miles that seems like it has some better options on it.

I was going to go drive the car yesterday, but unfortunately some crap went down and was unable to, that and I worked a profusely long day.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

No, no leather. It's sensatec or vinyl. And no the lower msrp doesn't hurt. It's less money you are borrowing. But my point was what options does it have for the extra $1700 on the pricing. I can't figure out what's not being listed by them. Plus it's not certified. They have a ton of certified 320s on their website.


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Well?


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Hello OP.?


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Sorry. In DC with the family. Going with the Silver one that has 400 miles. It will be 425 a month for 800 down(1st months, tags and title and something I am forgetting) car is being tinted as we speak.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Congrats! You were right, that *is* a beautiful car.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

Ninong said:


> Congrats! You were right, that *is* a beautiful car.


Yes. Not going to do the lighting package either. It isnt that big of a deal. It hurts but the car as a total upgrade is better.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

Congrats. Post some pictures when you get it.


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## WarrENDeatH (Jun 27, 2015)

So, after many e-mails, texts, and all that, it's done.

When it was all said and done, and I went in Friday, it took about an hour. I was amazed at how smooth that process went. 

So, the car. Wow. Owning it has really changed a lot of things. Driving to me has always been A to B (it might be that way for everyone). I made my Girlfriend drive to a lot of places out of hatred for my car, not wanting to pay gas, and slight laziness. Now, I am wanting to drive everywhere (damn lease). I have had five people drive in my car, everyone cannot stop complimenting it. The first day I had it, we had a double date, and everyone was just in awe of it (although my friend said it was the second nicest car, behind a Camaro (yeah...I know)). 

I have driven it really aggressive (curvy roads it's in sport mode, and highway it's in ECO pro). I haven't gotten an official MPG for my roadtrip to work (I will on my way home this morning) to accurately show what I drive. I just know that I am definitely pushing the MPG down (oh well, it's a blast to drive). The complaint of the 180hp not being enough might be the case for some people, but it feels worlds apart from what I had before.

And that stereo, wow. For a base line (9 speakers trumps my 7 speaker premium sound in my Sonic) this thing sounds amazing. 

Really enjoying it so far. Pictures coming soon(when I can upload to my computer, and not work computer)>


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## Katote (Jul 18, 2015)

This thread has been very helpful.


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