# Please read! HELP NEEDED!!



## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Hello,

I recently lease 2015 335xi GT on 6/13/2015 from NY Bayside BMW.

Picked up the car and i was very happy with the car!!

But here is the problem. I received a phone call from F&I yesterday saying that my contract was kicked back from the bank. F&I was asking additional $2500 down pay or co-signer.

Can this really happen after the contract was done?

Due to my light credit(first time buyer), i did $8,000 total out of pocket and my monthly payment is $580.80 36months/12,000miles.

My other curiosity was she said my MF is high because I'm at Tier 5. Isn't lease MF set for all kinds of credit?

She will call me back on Monday to see if i can do either additional $2500 or put co-signer. What if i can't do both of them? Do i have to return the car? 
Worst case if i have to return the car, would i still be able to go to other BMW dealership to lease?

Please see the attached photos for the break down.

MSRP was $58,450

Please help! Thank you!!


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## sactoken (Apr 4, 2004)

I don't understand how they can change the terms of the lease contract after both parties have signed, and you've taken possession of the car. Did you finance through BMWFS? (Who is F&I, someone at the dealership? And who is "the bank?")


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

I don't understand either.. 
Yes, i have the car in my possession and it was lease so i guess the bank was BMWFS.
F&I is at the dealership and her business cars shows she's the business manager.


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## Dallas550 (Jan 16, 2011)

jungmins said:


> I don't understand either..
> Yes, i have the car in my possession and it was lease so i guess the bank was BMWFS.
> F&I is at the dealership and her business cars shows she's the business manager.


Sounds extremely shady. I've seen this happen with Chevrolets, Saturn, etc. with friends in the past. They let you drive the car home, and work on your credit later. The bank kicks it back while you fall in love with the car. At that point, you're willing to put more money in it, or accept a higher rate. Never would expect this from BMW, if this is really the case.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

So if i don't accept either one, am i going to end up returning the car?


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## Dallas550 (Jan 16, 2011)

jungmins said:


> So if i don't accept either one, am i going to end up returning the car?


I would ask to speak to the GM of the dealership and someone at BMW FS. If you truly had a signed contract between yourself, BMW, and BMWFS, I would raise hell. This shouldn't be happening to you. I glanced over the date as well, it looks like the transaction happened a week ago. Totally unacceptable.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Dallas550 said:


> I would ask to speak to the GM of the dealership and someone at BMW FS. If you truly had a signed contract between yourself, BMW, and BMWFS, I would raise hell. This shouldn't be happening to you. I glanced over the date as well, it looks like this happened a week ago. Totally unacceptable.


I was thinking to give BMW FS a call to find out what's going on with my contract. I just went over my contract, my signature and F&I's signature are presented.
It happened exactly a week later from contract date.
From my understanding, if there was any issue with bank, F&I should have called earlier or even she shouldn't have let me take the car out of the lot.


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## Dallas550 (Jan 16, 2011)

jungmins said:


> I was thinking to give BMW FS a call to find out what's going on with my contract. I just went over my contract, my signature and F&I's signature are presented.
> It happened exactly a week later from contract date.
> *From my understanding, if there was any issue with bank, F&I should have called earlier or even she shouldn't have let me take the car out of the lot.*


This. Talk with BMWFS and the GM and report back. I'm definitely interested to see what the real story is.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Dallas550 said:


> This. Talk with BMWFS and the GM and report back. I'm definitely interested to see what the real story is.


I would rather speak with BMWFS than the GM. I will find out and let you know. I feel like it's dealership playing stupid game with me to make more money on the deal.


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## Lionnutz (Jul 24, 2014)

jungmins said:


> I would rather speak with BMWFS than the GM. I will find out and let you know. I feel like it's dealership playing stupid game with me to make more money on the deal.


I've dealt with BMW bayside before. A bunch of morons except for one CA. But she sells so many cars a month it's hard to negotiate with her.

Anyway I know u said u have light credit but that's quite a lot to put upfront on a lease. Just say u put up so much already if any terms of the deal change u have to return the car because cuz you won't be able to afford it and will have no choice but to return the car to them. They have enough room in the deal to change the numbers if necessary. Just looking at what u posted they already marked the acq fee up $200 (the most allowed by bmwfs).


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Lionnutz said:


> I've dealt with BMW bayside before. A bunch of morons except for one CA. But she sells so many cars a month it's hard to negotiate with her.
> 
> Anyway I know u said u have light credit but that's quite a lot to put upfront on a lease. Just say u put up so much already if any terms of the deal change u have to return the car because cuz you won't be able to afford it and will have no choice but to return the car to them. They have enough room in the deal to change the numbers if necessary. Just looking at what u posted they already marked the acq fee up $200 (the most allowed by bmwfs).


It still doesn't make sense to me. Contract was signed from both parties and they have to change the terms or numbers a week after?
I can't wait what F&I will say when i say no for additional down pay or co-signer.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

jungmins said:


> Hello,
> 
> I recently lease 2015 335xi GT on 6/13/2015 from NY Bayside BMW.
> 
> ...


You took delivery on a Saturday. BMWFS is not open on weekends. In spite of your weak credit, which may have resulted in a FICO score below 675, the dealership's management made the decision to roll the car (deliver it) anyway expecting that they would be able to talk BMWFS into accepting the lease as written. The risk they took was that if they were unable to get the contract bought as written, and if you were unwilling or unable to meet BMWFS's stipulations for approval, they would end up with a used car on their hands. The reason it took so long for them to get back to you was probably because they have been going back and forth with BMWFS all week trying to persuade them to approve the deal.

It could also be that the F&I manager who handled your delivery had a day off in there and they waited for her to return so that she could handle the situation with you. In any case, this can happen but it's usually rare at most dealerships because they don't want to have to take a new car back. They didn't make the decision to deliver it to you on the weekend without an approval lightly. They really did expect that they could get it bought the way it was written. At least that's the way most dealerships operate. A few dealerships might actually wait a couple extra days before calling you with the bad news in hopes that by that time you will be too embarrassed to return the car and they will have a better shot at persuading you to accept the revised terms. Most BMW dealerships don't operate that way. In fact, most BMW dealerships don't make the mistake of rolling a new BMW on the weekend on a lease unless they're almost certain they can get it bought.

Here is where you stand now. You DO NOT have to agree to any new terms. This decision is entirely up to you. If you do not wish to accept the conditions offered by BMWFS, you can simply give the car back to the dealership and they must return every penny you paid them. They will have a used car on their hands and that won't be good for them at all but they can't force BMWFS to approve the lease.

To address one of your other questions. As far as I know, the minimum credit score required to qualify for the best money factor from BMWFS is 675. I'm not up-to-date on the various credit tier breakdowns below that but the buy rate money factor from BMWFS does go up below 675 and it can go up again if the score slips into the lower tiers below that. I'm just surprised that they delivered the car knowing they were fighting an uphill battle to get it approved if your credit tier really was what they claim it was. Regardless of what the buy rate money factor from BMWFS to the dealership really was, the dealership can still mark it up, at their option, for finance reserve income.

Good luck! I hope things work out to your satisfaction.

P.S. -- You won't get any answer out of BMWFS if you call them. They're not a retail bank. The dealership is their customer. They will simply tell you that you have to talk to the dealership.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Ninong said:


> You took delivery on a Saturday. BMWFS is not open on weekends. In spite of your weak credit, which may have resulted in a FICO score below 675, the dealership's management made the decision to roll the car (deliver it) anyway expecting that they would be able to talk BMWFS into accepting the lease as written. The risk they took was that if they were unable to get the contract bought as written, and if you were unwilling or unable to meet BMWFS's stipulations for approval, they would end up with a used car on their hands. The reason it took so long for them to get back to you was probably because they have been going back and forth with BMWFS all week trying to persuade them to approve the deal.
> 
> It could also be that the F&I manager who handled your delivery had a day off in there and they waited for her to return so that she could handle the situation with you. In any case, this can happen but it's usually rare at most dealerships because they don't want to have to take a new car back. They didn't make the decision to deliver it to you on the weekend without an approval lightly. They really did expect that they could get it bought the way it was written. At least that's the way most dealerships operate. A few dealerships might actually wait a couple extra days before calling you with the bad news in hopes that by that time you will be too embarrassed to return the car and they will have a better shot at persuading you to accept the revised terms. Most BMW dealerships don't operate that way. In fact, most BMW dealerships don't make the mistake of rolling a new BMW on the weekend on a lease unless they're almost certain they can get it bought.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate for your opinion and explanation.
At this point, If dealership can't get it done without me accepting the new terms, i would return the car. Even if i have money for additional down pay and cosigner, i am very disappointed about how they operate.

Here is my question.
If i go to NJ BMW dealership where they can do MSD program, can they work with me? (i am sure approval with stips will be the same)
I heard if one BMW dealership did call in, other's can't do?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

One other point you raised that I forgot to address. You mentioned going to another BMW dealership in hopes of getting a better deal out of them. You have already been conditioned by BMWFS on the car in question. Whatever terms BMWFS offered to the first dealership are the exact terms they will offer to any other BMW dealership on a similar car. That's the way it works.

If you were to go to another BMW dealership and attempt to lease a less expensive BMW, then the terms may change but not if you want to lease a similar car. If you were to attempt to lease a more expensive BMW, they would simply raise the amount of money you would have to put up for an approval. In other words, you won't get a different approval at any other BMW dealership on a similar car because that's not how BMWFS operates.

That's not to say that you can't beat the deal on a similar car at another dealership. Maybe you can. I don't know. I do know that your out-of-pocket money will be whatever BMWFS conditioned you for at the first dealership if you try to lease a similar car elsewhere.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

We must have been typing at the same time. 

You can go to any other BMW dealership you choose. Just realize that you now know what it's going to take to get an approval from BMWFS. In fact, all another BMW dealership has to do is call BMWFS to find out the exact approval terms. They can do that in a matter of minutes.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Ninong said:


> We must have been typing at the same time.
> 
> You can go to any other BMW dealership you choose. Just realize that you now know what it's going to take to get an approval from BMWFS. In fact, all another BMW dealership has to do is call BMWFS to find out the exact approval terms. They can do that in a matter of minutes.


I am glad that you are online answering all my questions!!:thumbup:

Ok, what BMWFS asked was additional $2500 or co-signer. Let's say i have co-signer which satisfies their approval term. Will i able to do MSD program?

I really hate to deal with Bayside BMW at this point even if they got me the perfect car that i wanted.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

jungmins said:


> I heard if one BMW dealership did call in, other's can't do?


BMWFS is in the business of helping customers finance and lease BMWs because that's their job and that's what BMWAG expects them to do. They don't stop customers from attempting to buy/lease a BMW at any BMW dealership of their choosing.

So, yes, you are free to go to another dealership. Just remember that the terms will be the same if it's a similar car.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

I'm afraid I can't answer your specific question about MSD program because I'm not currently working. I'm retired. You would have to discuss that with a BMW dealer.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

Ninong said:


> BMWFS is in the business of helping customers finance and lease BMWs because that's their job and that's what BMWAG expects them to do. They don't stop customers from attempting to buy/lease a BMW at any BMW dealership of their choosing.
> 
> So, yes, you are free to go to another dealership. Just remember that the terms will be the same if it's a similar car.


Yes, i am going to stick with 335 gt.


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## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

at first glance, that looks like a really high payment on a GT with that much down. its the equivalent of a 750 per month payment with 0 down


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

I think you need to first determine that you really are obligated to respond to the dealer's issue. It's hard to believe you aren't, but it's got to be spelled out somewhere in the lease agreement. If it isn't, you really owe them nothing.


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## Gluhwein (Aug 21, 2011)

I don't want to sound cavalier or totally insensitive, but it sounds like you are screwed. It sounds like you really should consider a "lesser" car first and build up your credit. I went through the same thing a few years back when the wife was out of work. It sucks, but you need to build/rebuild your credit history. It sounds to me like you'd just be throwing away a lot of hard earned money with the requirement that you put down more cash. How about a two year lease on a MINI or something even cheaper just to establish a better financial base?


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Putting $10,500!down on a lease is a horrible idea as well. If you have an accident and the car is totaled you lose all that money. I agree with Glu: get a mini. It's not quite a BMW but handles and feels almost as good.


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

jungmins said:


> Ok, i received a phone call from F&I today and asked me if i can put additional money or co-signer. And i said NO.
> She said she will talk the bank and get back to me. But it looks like she won't throw me a happy news.
> So if i agree on the new terms, do you guys think they will be willing to negotiate the payment? (lower MF/rent charges)


At this point before I did anything, I would want to know exactly what transpired between the 6/5 credit application day and the 6/13 pickup day and exactly what BMWFS's approval stipulations were.

When was your application submitted to BMWFS? Who then decided that a cap cost reduction was okay in lieu of a cosigner? The Client Advisor? And so on...


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

kjboyd said:


> Putting $10,500!down on a lease is a horrible idea as well. If you have an accident and the car is totaled you lose all that money.


He doesn't actually "lose all that money." Motor vehicle insurance pays the full fair market value of a car that is totaled or they replace it with a comparable car. If the car is totaled during the first six months, most insurance companies will "make you whole" by replacing the car.

He doesn't have the option of multiple security deposits in New York because state law doesn't allow that. He needs either a co-signer/guarantor with good credit history or a large cap reduction for approval by BMWFS. He wants the car he has and he can obviously afford it. His situation is one of miscommunication and/or mishandling by the client adviser and/or the F&I manager.


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## Gluhwein (Aug 21, 2011)

No offence meant to the OP....But if they won't approve the deal then I'd say "he can't afford it". Not as BMWFS has spelled-out. I don't mean to get political here but one of the biggest problems this country has right now is that too many think they can afford stuff that they shouldn't be so eager to sign on to. Here in NE Pennsylvania the monthly foreclosure notices take up pages and pages of the local newspaper. As a mailman I can tell you that a heck of a lot of people are grossly over-extended on their credit cards and other loans lately as evidenced by the scores of certified letters from banks, credit unions and the local sheriff I have to deliver each day. Too many financial institutions are too willing to gamble on kids who haven't had a chance to establish a credit history. Look at all the default rate on college loans. You need to start small and build up. Too many are in such a big hurry to grab as much as they can. I guess that's why China now owns us.


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## BSSBC (Mar 30, 2014)

My lease, signed July 2014 in California, clearly permits the agreement to be rescinded within 10 days if it cannot be assigned to a financial institution on terms acceptable to the dealer. Here's the language:


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

BSSBC said:


> My lease, signed July 2014 in California, clearly permits the agreement to be rescinded within 10 days if it cannot be assigned to a financial institution on terms acceptable to the dealer. Here's the language:


Yes, that is the law in the state of California. Other states may have slightly different laws. Each state regulates finance and lease contracts, which must comply with federal law as well as the laws of each individual state.

In California the dealer must notify the customer within 10 days if credit is unavailable and the customer must return the car for a full refund of all money paid, as well as any trade-in. If for any reason the customer refuses to return the car once the dealer has made that demand, the contract is then in default and the dealer can turn it over to a repo company for repossession.

In the OP's case, the dealer did notify him on the eighth day that BMWFS had rejected the lease as written and conditioned it for a total of $10,500 down payment (cap reduction) or a qualified co-signer/guarantor. OP prefers to pony up the $10,500 rather than go with a co-signer.

At most BMW dealerships in California situations like this are extremely rare because most dealership won't roll a new BMW on a lease unless they are 99% certain it will be approved. Sometimes some gung-ho GSM will order that a car be rolled on the weekend, especially at the end of the month, in spite of obvious credit issues in hopes that it will either be approved or that the customer will be able to comply with whatever conditions BMWFS demands for approval.

Taking a new car back after it has been delivered is not something dealers want to do. They have to post fees with DMV and send in a statement of facts that the car was returned because credit was unavailable. Then the car has to be sold on a used car report of sale. That's something that happens no more than once or twice a year at most BMW dealerships.


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## jungmins (Jun 21, 2015)

No more phone calls from dealership..
should i call them or just leave them alone?


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## Lionnutz (Jul 24, 2014)

jungmins said:


> No more phone calls from dealership..
> should i call them or just leave them alone?


I'd follow up just to be safe. They r bad at getting back to people.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

I wouldn't call them. Remember, it's their matter to resolve with you. However, you might consider calling BMWFS just to see if they have your lease in the system. That might tip you off as to what's going on.



jungmins said:


> No more phone calls from dealership..
> should i call them or just leave them alone?


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

Robert A said:


> I wouldn't call them. Remember, it's their matter to resolve with you. However, you might consider calling BMWFS just to see if they have your lease in the system. That might tip you off as to what's going on.


+1 Call BMWFS and see what the story is.


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## Arcane.Host (Sep 8, 2006)

Ninong said:


> Yes, that is the law in the state of California. Other states may have slightly different laws. Each state regulates finance and lease contracts, which must comply with federal law as well as the laws of each individual state.
> 
> In California the dealer must notify the customer within 10 days if credit is unavailable and the customer must return the car for a full refund of all money paid, as well as any trade-in. If for any reason the customer refuses to return the car once the dealer has made that demand, the contract is then in default and the dealer can turn it over to a repo company for repossession.
> 
> ...


I agree with Ninong completely. As far as they are concerned they have notified the OP. Consider the impact it can have on credit score etc for a reason that can be avoided. I'd reach out and resolve the matter. Dealers lose a lot of money if such cars come back.....they are not doing it to make some extra money in this case....my 2 cents.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Not to push the point, but I'm pretty sure the notice has to be in writing before the dealer can take any action against the OP. I don't think a simple phone call would count as "notice."



shogunman said:


> I agree with Ninong completely. As far as they are concerned they have notified the OP. Consider the impact it can have on credit score etc for a reason that can be avoided. I'd reach out and resolve the matter. Dealers lose a lot of money if such cars come back.....they are not doing it to make some extra money in this case....my 2 cents.


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## PhantomCypher (Sep 7, 2013)

bimmerbuff said:


> +1 Call BMWFS and see what the story is.


I'm going to toss in my +1 here for calling BMWFS and dealing with them. It looks like this deal has dealer incompetence written all over it. :rofl:


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## djsaad1 (Sep 3, 2012)

Couldn't he just add the lease to the my bmw site? Wouldn't it show him if it's active or not?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

jungmins said:


> No more phone calls from dealership..
> should i call them or just leave them alone?


You took delivery on the 13th. Tomorrow will be the 29th, sixteen days since you took delivery. I guess a lot depends on what you said to the F&I person over the phone in that conversation when she called to tell you BMWFS was requesting an additional $2,500 drive-off money or a co-signer. If you actually agreed to bring in an additional $2,500 and sign a new lease, then maybe she just doesn't want to annoy you with another phone call.

Tuesday, the 30th, is the last day of the month. They will definitely want to clear this up before then because they don't want it hanging around in limbo. If you don't receive a phone call from them tomorrow, my guess is that they talked BMWFS into accepting it as originally written.

At this point you can either call the F&I person and ask if the lease was accepted by BMWFS or you can just sit back and wait to see what happens next. At this point I assume you are satisfied with the car and have decided to keep it either way.

The only thing you might be able to find out by calling BMWFS is whether your lease in on their books yet. They will not discuss any of the terms of their conditional approval with you because that's between them and the dealer. Until they fund the contract, you are not yet their customer and since they are not a retail bank, they do not discuss approvals with customers.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. You obviously like the car and have decided you want to keep it. The worst that can happen is that the F&I person will call you and ask you to please come in with your additional $2,500 so that they can finish this deal.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Robert A said:


> Not to push the point, but I'm pretty sure the notice has to be in writing before the dealer can take any action against the OP. I don't think a simple phone call would count as "notice."


That's an interesting point. In more than three decades of experience I can recall only two instances when we sent out a written notice to the customer asking them to return the car. In both cases it was because the customer was uncooperative and we wanted proof that we had given them notice. We sent the notice by registered mail, return receipt requested.

In all of the other cases the customers were cooperative and either returned the car or complied with the conditional approval offered by the lender. We did not have all that many like that because we were more conservative in rolling new cars on the weekend than some other dealers and I would guess that we averaged no more than one or two a year that had to be taken back and sold on a used car ROS.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Robert A said:


> Not to push the point, but I'm pretty sure the notice has to be in writing before the dealer can take any action against the OP. I don't think a simple phone call would count as "notice."


OP- phone calls are not legal notice.

A couple of comments: Ninong is a retired car salesman. His bias is very "BMW centric"..factor that in your analysis. He never takes a position in which he recommends pushing back when a dealer is wrong. Never. Ever. Dealers only make 'mistakes'..they never manipulate...you should always try to work with them...you should always gve them the beneift of the doubt.

And while it is usefull to have multple sides to an issue, in retirement he seems to have an inordinate amount of time to create volumes of content that an unsuspecting newb might cling to as 'the one truth'. Those of us with a more assertive and challenging viewpoint dont have the time for the handholding. So factor that into your analysis.

You have a horrible deal. The dealer, when you offered an amazingly stupid $8k down was blinded by their greed and said "great". They tried to get BMWFS to approve the deal. WHO KNOWS if they did or did not. You dont know, do you?

You're naiveté is so obvious that the dealer figures that can beat you like a piñata... "$8k more"; 'jack the MF'; 'get a cosigner'...whatever they want. Your desire for the car means they will call and ask for whatever they want. Any mature buyer with a backbone and options, they would be scrambling internally to fix it. (and the original deal would have been better)...but with a newb, it is just "squeeze him some more"

Oh, do you know why they CALL and dont EMAIL? you have no record of anything said on a call. He siad she said. They know this. well. Stop speaking to them on the phone. DO not offer them an extra penny. It is already a bad deal, you are shaming yourself if you bend over further.

I'd drive the crap out of the car, the n return it. Call a sponsor get a honest (maybe not better...) deal.


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## KingpenM3 (Dec 27, 2011)

I know I skimmed this whole thread, and didn't look at the contract, but are we 100% sure that you are dealing with BMWFS?? Every single bmw dealership I have dealt with has always tried to get me into a lease with a different lease company that "always" beats what BMWFS can offer.


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## Arcane.Host (Sep 8, 2006)

*Perhaps a One Pay Lease*

If the contract has to be rewritten, perhaps the OP should consider doing a one pay lease since MSDs are not permitted in NY (assuming one pay is permitted in NY). This will ensure that, in an event of a total, his money is completely protected and will also get him a few discount points (30 basis points TTBOMK.....perhaps someone can confirm this).


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

ard said:


> Ninong is a retired car salesman.


Incorrect.



> His bias is very "BMW centric"..factor that in your analysis.


Correct.



> And while it is usefull to have multple sides to an issue, in retirement he seems to have an inordinate amount of time to create volumes of content that an unsuspecting newb might cling to as 'the one truth'. Those of us with a more assertive and challenging viewpoint dont have the time for the handholding. So factor that into your analysis.


As with anything you read in an online forum, it's up to you to weigh the information and/or advice and make your own decisions. Not everyone will have the same viewpoint.



> Oh, do you know why they CALL and dont EMAIL?


They call because it's the best way to explain the situation and answer the customer's questions and make sure that the customer understands what is going on and is cooperative. If the customer is unwilling or unable to comply with the conditions offered by the lender, then it will be explained to the customer that he must return the car and receive a refund of everything he paid. If the customer refuses to return the car, it will be explained to him that the contract is now in default and the car will be picked up by a repossession company. That is extremely rare and almost never happens because almost all customers are sensible people who understand the situation.



> I'd drive the crap out of the car, the n return it.


This advice cannot possibly be serious. If it is, it is irresponsible, to say the least.

OP, I hope that everything worked out to your satisfaction and that you enjoy your new BMW. Good luck!


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

shogunman said:


> This will ensure that, in an event of a total, his money is completely protected...


In the event of a total, the insurance company must pay the full retail fair market value of the car or offer an acceptable substitute car.

P.S. -- I probably missed the point you were making, that gap insurance would cover the payoff and he could walk away from the lease.


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## Arcane.Host (Sep 8, 2006)

Ninong said:


> P.S. -- I probably missed the point you were making, that gap insurance would cover the payoff and he could walk away from the lease.


Yes that's what I meant.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Ninong said:


> Incorrect.
> 
> )


Thought you posted you were retired.

:angel:

or are we quibbling over your title at the dealership?


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## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

shogunman said:


> If the contract has to be rewritten, perhaps the OP should consider doing a one pay lease since MSDs are not permitted in NY (assuming one pay is permitted in NY). This will ensure that, in an event of a total, his money is completely protected and will also get him a few discount points (30 basis points TTBOMK.....perhaps someone can confirm this).


I don't remember what the one-pay MF discount is either. I thought that MSDs were the better option, if your state allows it.


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## Arcane.Host (Sep 8, 2006)

bimmerbuff said:


> I don't remember what the one-pay MF discount is either. I thought that MSDs were the better option, if your state allows it.


Currently MSDs are a better option if possible. For a few months last year, the one pay was better.....discount was 80 points or 90 points and it could be combined with almost everything (except ED). We used the one pay lease for my wife's car in August 2014 and the numbers came out very well.


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## manolica1 (Apr 18, 2008)

Ninong said:


> You can go to any other BMW dealership you choose. Just realize that you now know what it's going to take to get an approval from BMWFS. In fact, all another BMW dealership has to do is call BMWFS to find out the exact approval terms. They can do that in a matter of minutes.


I do not know how BMWFS working but at one dealer in MD I've got $795 and next day in NY $598, same down payment same MSRP... of course I've got the lowest one
in the past I've applied thru 4 different BMW dealers and the highest interest was 10 and the lowest 4.13...
so, I do not know what to say in jungming case...


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

manolica1 said:


> I do not know how BMWFS working but at one dealer in MD I've got $795 and next day in NY $598, same down payment same MSRP... of course I've got the lowest one
> in the past I've applied thru 4 different BMW dealers and the highest interest was 10 and the lowest 4.13...
> so, I do not know what to say in jungming case...


That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about what conditions BMWFS gave for approval of credit and that has nothing to do with what you're talking about. You're talking about what deal you got from different dealers. Big difference.

BMWFS doesn't control what the dealers can sell their cars for. That's entirely up to each individual dealer. That affects the monthly payment a lot more than a slight difference in the money factor or the finance rate on a loan. They do control whether or not they will approve an application for credit and if they don't approve it as submitted, they will often condition it. That means they tell the dealer that they would be willing to approve it with more money down or maybe on a cheaper car or maybe with a co-signer. 

They also don't tell the dealers exactly what interest rates to use. If it's a new car lease, they tell the dealers what money factor (rate) they are going to charge the dealer and then the dealer has the option to mark that up to earn finance reserve profit. If it's a finance contract, they establish the rate they will charge the dealer and the dealer knows how much he is allowed to mark that up, at his option.

What we were talking about is a customer with insufficient credit history who received a conditional approval from BMWFS, telling the dealer that they would be willing to approve his application for a lease with either a certain amount of money out of pocket or a co-signer but they would not be willing to accept it as it was originally submitted.


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## manolica1 (Apr 18, 2008)

I have been approved from BMWFS(it was what dealer says), all I had to do just to sign the papers, at that moment because I had to many open approval, they ask me which one to close... my credit score was 690 with 4 years establishment.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

manolica1 said:


> I have been approved from BMWFS(it was what dealer says), all I had to do just to sign the papers, at that moment because I had to many open approval, they ask me which one to close... my credit score was 690 with 4 years establishment.


That means your application for credit was approved by BMWFS as submitted without conditions. A score of 690 means that you qualified for the top tier rate on a finance contract or the best money factor on a lease. Therefore, all of the differences you encountered in your shopping around were due to different deals being quoted by the different dealers. They were all being given the best possible rate from BMWFS.

The reason they asked you which open approval you were going to take was because too many different dealers had submitted applications on different cars and BMWFS didn't want you to show up at more than one dealer on the weekend and drive off with more than one of those cars. Believe it or not, that has actually happened. The way it can happen is that a customer will get approved by BMWFS and/or other lenders for different cars at more than one dealership and then show up at more than one of those dealers and take delivery. Some people try to pull that off because one of those cars may be for a brother or close friend who has bad credit. It is considered fraud to finance or lease a car and then turn it over to another party, even if he's your own brother.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

curious about the outcome. Any final word?


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## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

Robert A said:


> curious about the outcome. Any final word?


op last visited june 26th


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## Arcane.Host (Sep 8, 2006)

Orient330iNYC said:


> op last visited june 26th


Lol.....One question wonder visitor.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

I for one feel cheated.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Thought it was a troll, but maybe we'll learn more.



VIZSLA said:


> I for one feel cheated.


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## Matt_UKTX (Jan 9, 2006)

ard said:


> OP- phone calls are not legal notice.
> 
> A couple of comments: Ninong is a retired car salesman. His bias is very "BMW centric"..factor that in your analysis. He never takes a position in which he recommends pushing back when a dealer is wrong. Never. Ever. Dealers only make 'mistakes'..they never manipulate...you should always try to work with them...you should always gve them the beneift of the doubt.
> 
> ...


Outstanding response, and I could not agree more... This made me laugh out loud


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