# Canadian ED - May Improve!



## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

Sometimes squeaky wheels do get attention!

I've wanted to do an ED on an M5 since last year, but the Canadian version is terrible compared to US ED. It would actually cost me more than buying locally! So, I wrote an email to the President of BMW Canada (Lindsay Duffield) and he actually replied (on his Blackberry). :thumbup:

Based on his note asking for my input, if any Canadians want to provide me with their "two cents", please post replies here or send me a PM. He actually copied 3 other BMW Canada staff on his reply, so I'm hoping that we see a major improvement to our ED program. If I don't hear anything from them by the end of the summer, I'll send him another note.

*Here's my note (and his reply):*

_Dear Mr. Duffield:

Firstly, congratulations on your return to Canada!
I am writing you directly, as I cannot get a clear answer from dealers or through BMW Canada.

I am very interested in purchasing an M5 through European Delivery in 2007 or 2008, when I retire. I presently own a 2003 530/M-Exec, 2003 Z4 3.0 and 2002 325. I also had a 2002 330CiC/M-Pkg, which was traded for the 530. All were purchased new, in a 10 month period from Otto's BMW in Ottawa.

I am a BMW enthusiast and committed to BMW vehicles for life. I follow BMW internet forums daily and have become very knowledgeable about these great vehicles.

1. Why doesn't BMW Canada offer the same incentives for European Delivery that BMW NA does?
2. Why can you not trade a vehicle on ED? The GST savings would make ED very lucrative.

I realize that Canada is a much smaller market for BMW, but buyers may be more apt to take advantage of ED if it was similar to the US version. I priced an M5 for ED versus buying it here, and it would actually cost more for ED, even on a cash purchase!
I had planned a month long vacation throughout Europe, but the lack of savings does not make it worthwhile. I do realize that car rental savings in Europe would be a saving with an ED purchase, but I would like to see insurance and licensing thrown in (as in the US), plus the ability to trade my older BMW. The 2 month wait for my M5 to arrive, after ED, would be more bearable!

Now, if you could get Lufthansa to provide their "2 for 1" airfare deal (as in the US), that would be a bonus.

I'm just asking if BMW Canada would consider re-evaluating the Canadian ED program._

*His reply:*

_Thanks so much for your email. And thanks for your business and loyalty. We really appreciate it!

You raise some very good points regarding the European Delivery Program, and your timing is good.

In the past, based on the small volume and overcrowded facilities in Munich, we did not promote this offering widely in Canada. However, with the construction of the new BMW Welt (BMW World) delivery and experience centre and renovated Museum and expanded plant tour infrastructure in Munich, this changes everything. This new world class facility will open in 1H'07 and our plan is to update and relaunch our European Delivery program to take advantage of the new facilities.

We'll take your input to heart and if you would agree, I will have one of our staff contact you to make sure we have all of your ideas.

Thanks again and please be patient as we work on this exciting new phase of the ED program for Canada. We should be in good shape for your timing to order your M5.

All the best and please keep in touch.

Lindsay_


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

What a "considerate operation"!!! Becuase the center in Munich is small, so CA doesn't offer ED?? Is BMW NA insensitive or no nonsense?


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

This is encouraging news. We'll see what happens. IMHO, the main things to change (basically what you already said) are:
1. Offer an ED discount comparable to US
2. Figure out how to net value of trade-in against new car for purpose of calculating sales tax
3. Make the entire process more seamless, especially redelivery

I'm happy to send this directly if you PM me his e-mail address.


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

Kanuck said:


> This is encouraging news. We'll see what happens. IMHO, the main things to change (basically what you already said) are:
> 1. Offer an ED discount comparable to US
> 2. Figure out how to net value of trade-in against new car for purpose of calculating sales tax
> 3. Make the entire process more seamless, especially redelivery
> ...


Thx Kanuck!
1. We do get a discount now..called "Tourist Price". It's about 8% off MSRP. What we really need is the MSRP price to reflect the higher Canadian dollar, thus reducing the MSRP of a car in Canada.
2. This is the main point and he is aware of it already.
3. Have you had experience with the re-delivery? What were the problems that didn't make it seamless? This is a point I really want input on, if you have some details.

THx...Rick


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

Canuck BMW said:


> Thx Kanuck!
> 1. We do get a discount now..called "Tourist Price". It's about 8% off MSRP. What we really need is the MSRP price to reflect the higher Canadian dollar, thus reducing the MSRP of a car in Canada.
> 2. This is the main point and he is aware of it already.
> 3. Have you had experience with the re-delivery? What were the problems that didn't make it seamless? This is a point I really want input on, if you have some details.
> ...


1. But when you add the 6.1% import duty to the "tourist price", you are basically back to MSRP. And you have to be even more careful with options, because there is no "tourist price" for those, and then the duty gets added to them too.

2. This is not easy to solve because the sales tax rules are not written with ED in mind. The rules assume you are trading in and taking delivery of the new car at the same time. But, even if you somehow traded in your old car at the time you take delivery in Munich, you don't pay the sales tax until the car is redelivered to Canada. At that point, the dealership is not that interested in your trade-in because you bought and paid for your car months before.

3. On my last ED 3 years ago, I had to get the car through customs, then go to a huge railyard north of Toronto to get the car. I'm not sure if this was the normal procedure or not, but I was keen to get the car asap. The customs office was out by the airport and I had to go twice because the first time I didn't have some scrap of paper that they wanted. The dealership seemed less than interested in helping out, and at the time, I chose to deal with it myself, rather than spend time pushing them.

When I finally got the car there was some "damage". This was ultimately resolved, but it took several months to clear up all the details.


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

Kanuck:
Thanks for your candid input. I see what you mean about the delivery process back in Canada. That definitely has to be streamlined. I will bring that up when (if) they contact me.
You're right about the Duty. That is a killer, so I think the "tourist price" should be lowered along with the MSRP (wider gap..say 10%).
As for the trade-in, I'm suggesting that they treat it as new when the car is delivered back here and let you trade your car. At the very least, let you trade your car (hand it over) when the deal is signed, and before you take possesion in Europe (although you will be without a car for 2 months after you return to Canada).

If you think of anything else, let me know.
Thanks...Rick


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## banffbimmer (Jun 10, 2006)

Thanks for sharing your experience Kanuck. I'm doing an ED through BMW Gallery in Calgary and although they are doing their best to be helpful they seem confused with the process and what the pricing will be. Hopefully they will get it sorted out.

My ED is scheduled for 19 Jul...I'm hoping I'll get my car back undamaged and boy ...2 months seems like a long time to wait to get your car back.

I'll post my experience and tips when I get back.

Cheers,


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## inTgr8r (Mar 10, 2006)

I just came across this thread....
I had all but ruled out ED due to all of the aforementioned issues.

My hope is renewed


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## inTgr8r (Mar 10, 2006)

Just thought...
The other thing I'd like to see is the option to lease.


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

Well I did have my "interview" (over the phone) in late June. All went well...to a point!
He took down my points, and all the ones I had accumulated from others. He said he would pass them on, but I have my doubts, as he was just a junior corporate sales employee. I had expected a VP or middle manager to call.:tsk:

He had priced an M5 for ED to show me the savings over a local purchase, but forgot a bunch of items. Only after I explained everything did he agree that it was more costly.

He didn't even know that Volvo Canada has an ED program with lots of freebies..check this out! I told him this is what we want from BMW!

*Volvo ED*
_Two complimentary round trip tickets to Gothenburg, Sweden. 
One free hotel night for two in Gothenburg. 
VIP delivery at the home of Volvo including our exciting Factory Tour. 
Delivery at selected retailers across Europe. * 
The opportunity to explore Europe in your own Volvo. 
15 days International Insurance and Export registration. 
Complimentary home shipment of your new Volvo to your authorized Volvo retailer in Canada. 
6.1% import duty included. _

He tried to tell me that BMW dealers in Canada can't get involved in the re-delivery due to Customs regulations...funny that Volvo Canada does!

The discussion then got heated, when I started to mention the discrepancy between US and Canadian pricing. I even described in detail the savings on an MZ4, and he couldn't argue the point.

In my view, the bottom line is that BMW Canada is gouging their customers to keep up with worldwide BMW sales figures, but we will see some improvement in Qtr.I 2007.

I'll wait until next year to decide if I want to do an ED...maybe I'll get a Volvo!


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## inTgr8r (Mar 10, 2006)

Thanks for the update.
...really appreciate your efforts on this.

since Lindsay Duffield said.....


> All the best and please keep in touch.
> 
> Lindsay


Would it be of any value to copy him on the "interview"?


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## BBBMW (May 1, 2005)

I'm hoping things will change for the better. If it doesn't, we can all meet in the US as we pick up our bimmers down south.


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

inTgr8r said:


> Thanks for the update.
> ...really appreciate your efforts on this.
> 
> since Lindsay Duffield said.....
> ...


I'm wiiling to wait and see what happens in the new year...then I'll react if necessary!:angel:


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## cog_bimmer (Dec 30, 2006)

I have been looking into ED for Sept 07 of 335ci, in conjunction with 25th anniversary trip to Italy with my wife (who fortunately is very supportive of both the new car and the extra driving), and this site has been more helpful than info received from either BMW Canada, or dealers, who so far seem either confused or uninterested. Came across this thread on a search for those with experience (or at least those prepared to press for answers) about ED into Canada. Have you learned anything more about changes promised to the process?

Got a prelim quote from a dealer on 335 coupe with sport and premium package, and it appears that base price drops by about 7% or about $7400, but then advised re freight charges referred to by Canuck totalling about $2100 as offset, so still looks like a savings of about $5000. Is this an illusion? Is there another tax that they haven't factored in?

Thanks for your help!


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

Cog_Bimmer:
There has been no new information, and I doubt we'll see anything until next summer or fall, as the new BMW Welt opening has been delayed until next fall.

There are a bunch of hidden charges that you must factor into your calculations. I don't have the tourist price you were given, but I'll bet, on a 335ci, the saving is more in the range of $2K-$3K. PM me with your email address and I'll forward the actual calculation and information sheets that a CDN dealer uses to come up with your price. You'll see that you actually PAY the dealer MORE money ("deposit"), up front, than you would for a local purchase, and then you get a refund AFTER your car arrives back in Canada.

Another major drawback is that YOU (not the dealer) must deal with Canada Customs when your car arrives. You need to do a lot of research to understand all the paperwork involved and what the process is. Neither BMW Canada or the dealer will assist you. Once you pay them up front, that's it...you're on your own.

Rick


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

cog_bimmer said:


> Got a prelim quote from a dealer on 335 coupe with sport and premium package, and it appears that base price drops by about 7% or about $7400, but then advised re freight charges referred to by Canuck totalling about $2100 as offset, so still looks like a savings of about $5000. Is this an illusion? Is there another tax that they haven't factored in?
> 
> Thanks for your help!


There is a lot of smoke and mirrors with this. I would not worry too much about freight charges. You pay those whether you get ED or local delivery. But, the so-called "tourist price" that they use to entice you into ED is basically the MSRP less the 6.1% import duty you pay when the car enters Canada. I think BMW Canada is a bit misleading on this point. Another issue is the fact that you can't net a trade-in against the value of new car for tax calculation purposes, so depending on the value of your trade-in, you end up paying more tax (this is less of an issue in Alberta, but there is still import duty and GST there).

Bottom line, there are a lot of puts and takes, and you can do a lot of analysis if you want, but there are essentially no savings on a Canadian ED. That said, I still love doing it, and have done so twice now. If you want a great experience, and are prepared for a few additional hassles, go for ED. If you want the best price possible, do some hard bargaining on a local delivery.


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## cog_bimmer (Dec 30, 2006)

thanks guys. I have PMed Canuck BMW with some more background, and since I am new to this whole forum thing, hope that it reaches him.

I noticed several recent posts on the ED forum that still indicated the BMW Welt was to open in summer, and Adrian gave the 3d walkthrough link, which certainly makes it look awfully impressive. I am hoping to adjust the delivery date to a little later in September to hopefully ensure that I get an 08 model, but still arrive in Munich for Oktoberfest!


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## gabern (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi Canak BMW, thanks for all the useful info. I planning to acquire a BMW next summer and since I plan to return to Italy, some time in mid -July, I really would like to explore further this option. This summer I rented an Audi A4 during my stay, approx 4 weeks , and spent $2,400 for this rental. I plan to stay roughly the same amount of time next summer.

My questions: do you expect improvements to our program next spring when I plan to place my order?

Do you know of a dealer in southern Ontario who may be proficient in this process ?

thanks


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

Ernie:
I've heard nothing new about ED improving. I gave up waiting and bought my M5 here. Since you'll be staying a month and renting a car again, you'll definitely save some money.
However, there is still the 2 month wait when you return to Canada.
The new BMW delivery centre will finally open late this fall (8 months late), so you get to see it.

I would think that the BMW corporate dealership in downtown Toronto would be more informed than others about ED.

Good Luck!


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## cog_bimmer (Dec 30, 2006)

Ernie - I will be taking delivery on Sept 25th, and have been dealing with Grand Touring Cars in London. I will be about a month prior to opening of BWM Welt so won't be experiencing the new delivery centre. The dealer is learning the process but information is available from BMW Corporate to answer your questions. Whether the program will be improved is still a good question, but the experience of driving your own car in Europe is worth it, in my view.

Saving on the purchase of 335 coupe was about $1,000 but since we are going for 2 weeks and covering Austria, Venice, Tuscany, and Swiss Alps, we will save on the cost of a rental and see some awesome alpine roads.


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

According to an article about BMW Welt in Auto section of today's Toronto Globe & Mail:

"BMW spokesman Jochen Frey said the company is working with Canada Customs to eliminate this stage _(i.e., redelivery) _where the customer in effect must act as their own importer. When the BMW dealer is able to process the sale entirely, the 8% reduction will be replaced with the import duty in the transaction."

This would improve the process, as redelively is a weak point in Canadian ED. But, no mention of introducing a discount along the lines of US ED. In any event, their bigger problem is justifying why they charge more in C$ than they do in US$ when a C$ is worth US$1.05


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## cog_bimmer (Dec 30, 2006)

Redelivery has been very frustrating. I dropped off in Munich on October 8th, and was able to track car on the "Toronto" till dropoff in Halifax on Halloween. Unfortunately, shipper did not arrange for Agriculture Canada inspection in Halifax (excuse was that car was shipped in BMW's name to that point, and was treated as a new car in Halifax). Car arrived in Concord on November 15th, and I was told by shipper that Ag inspection was "discretionary" so I should "go and see what happens". Noone was able to confirm either that inspection would be done on my arrival (from over 200 miles away), or whether it may be waived.

Inspection was mandatory per Customs, and I made a fruitless trip to Toronto and had to return home while awaiting the completion of inspection. At least BMW Canada stepped up and agreed to take delivery for me and truck car to dealer, in view of the failure of my attempt to pickup.

Maybe this coming week will finally see redelivery.


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

The redelivery process can be very frustrating, as you now know. Nice to see BMW stepping up, maybe this is a precursor to their promised seamless new redelivery process. The Agriculture Canada inspection is pure b.s. No one seems to actually do anything, you just need the stamp on the form. Do you have a "no outstanding recalls" letter from BMW? Customs may ask for that next.

Is it still Colley Motors in Montreal that handles the redelivery after the car is dropped in Dartmouth? It sounds as though they are the ones who dropped the ball on the Agriculture inspection.


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## cog_bimmer (Dec 30, 2006)

Yes I have the compliance letter and that is not an issue. The young CBSA officer I dealt with actually suggested that my 335 coupe may incur a gas guzzler tax, but backed off that after confirming my advice that the ratings are excellent.

Colley Motorships in Montreal is the agent from Halifax, and I agree that it appears they dropped the ball by not insisting the inspection be completed in Halifax.


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## GewoW (Jun 15, 2007)

any updated on the canadian ED?

Sorry to bring back the thread, but would like to know if anything knew had occured.


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

GewoW said:


> any updated on the canadian ED?
> 
> Sorry to bring back the thread, but would like to know if anything knew had occured.


Based on what the dealer told me this morning...No changes at all so far. So much for BMW Canada president's promise to improve the Canadian ED process before the BMW Welt opened in Munich!


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## GewoW (Jun 15, 2007)

Damn it. Hopefully it will get better by Q1 09, so I can ED an M3 without paying more!

If you do ever get an email from him, please update us. I'm dying for new info. 

Thanks man


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

Canuck BMW said:


> Based on what the dealer told me this morning...No changes at all so far. So much for BMW Canada president's promise to improve the Canadian ED process before the BMW Welt opened in Munich!


It is clearly a low priority for them. I believe this is shortsighted, as I think they would sell more cars with a better ED process. I, for one, would trade up more often.


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## yamilrx (Nov 25, 2004)

Kanuck said:


> It is clearly a low priority for them. I believe this is shortsighted, as I think they would sell more cars with a better ED process. I, for one, would trade up more often.


That was a very cool reply from that BMW executive. I think they are missing out on a huge market. Canada would represent a significant number of ED. With the Canadian dollar much stronger than in past years, Canadians would also benefit. Shame on BMW.


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## cog_bimmer (Dec 30, 2006)

I can only hope that there will be improvements. Canadian buyers are certainly not provided with any real incentive to try European Delivery under the system in place until this past year, although knowing that I would basically be navigating on my own (with assistance from Canuck and some other 'Festers, I proceeded without issues until redelivery. There was suggestion that the redelivery process would be revamped, but I have heard nothing more.

Good luck - it was still the best driving experience I've had, on the Autobahn and in the Alps.


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