# Look! another E46 torn subframe



## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46/forum.php?postid=929564&page=1

Not as rare a problem as some might think. A good mechanic told me a few months ago that there are some E46s around the country that are popping up with this problem. I had it, what a PITA. I have searched the .org archives and there are a few others.

Hopefully it won't tear again!


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Crapola, I hope that's not what my clunking is. I remember seeing your pics ages ago. Where exactly can you see (if you can) if this is what's happening?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Kaz said:


> *Crapola, I hope that's not what my clunking is. I remember seeing your pics ages ago. Where exactly can you see (if you can) if this is what's happening? *


Actually, I didn't notice the clunking, more like a HARSH vibration under heavy acceleration, most apparent in 2nd gear. Maybe a heavy clunk is the beggining signs.

Take a look at the diagram on p. 330-12 in the Bently manual. Mine tore at the mounting bolt where the diff hooks up on the driver's side. If I remember, it looks like a small box with a cicular thing on the end.

I'll look for a better pic.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

I hope this helps, best shot I have of the relative location


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Hmm... An excellent reason to crawl under the car and take a look. I don't THINK that the clunk curly identified comes from a torn subframe, though... If it does, mine is gone, too. 

I'll try and take a look tomorrow.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *Hmm... An excellent reason to crawl under the car and take a look. I don't THINK that the clunk curly identified comes from a torn subframe, though... If it does, mine is gone, too.
> 
> I'll try and take a look tomorrow. *


At least you don't have to jack up the car to look under it :flipoff:


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

I still have to use ramps. My bimmer isn't THAT far away from the ground. :tsk:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *I still have to use ramps. My bimmer isn't THAT far away from the ground. :tsk: *




That's true. I would say that this probably isn't a concern, unless you do lots of 6K clutch drops. You ARE putting power to all 4 wheels and I hope BMW compensated for that.

Track cars tend to tear front bits, the E36 subframe problem made its way first to early 325 track cars.


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## DougDogs (Dec 26, 2001)

I don't have pictures to support it, but I had a similar tear in the rear of my 72' 2002 Ti

Warrenties back then were not like they are today, and I ended up having to pay for the repair. I did, however, tow it away from dealer, and had a friend's frame shop do the repair. (he cut me a break on the price, plus I trusted him better than the dealer)

I also lost the top mount for the left rear strut later in life, but that was do to rust rot, and maybe some stress from first failure


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

OK, I ramped the car and crawled underneath it last night. You can't actually see the mounts in the body, as the subframe's mount donuts are really big. However, I didn't see any bent sheetmetal or anything down there on any of the 4 mounts, thank goodness.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

aren't the e46 rear strut towers prone to tearing too? i thought i've seen some pictures of this a while back. caused by loose rear shock mounts? which is another common e36/e46 problem


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

HW said:


> *aren't the e46 rear strut towers prone to tearing too? i thought i've seen some pictures of this a while back. caused by loose rear shock mounts? which is another common e36/e46 problem *


I looked at it when I replaced the rear shock mounts, and I agree, this doesn't look like the sturdiest thing in the world. I put the Z3 reinforcement plates that are often recommended, in there when I did mine, and have a bit more peace-of-mind.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

so what's the deal w/ bmw making such weak frames, putting wimpy clutches into the e46 etc. weight cutting in the wrong places? :dunno: also i was looking at the specs for the tranny a while back and looks like there is nearly no margin for upping the torque output from the engine w/o getting a new tranny (323/getrag manual).


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## blackdawg (Jan 4, 2002)

*it's not all bad.....*

.....it's not as though these problems have 100% penetrance on the E46s.....remember, the new clutches are indeed, after a short time, a wear and tear item, and this fact that they appear to be "weak" saves your transmission.

the subframe failures are problematic, but it's hard to tell if this is due to hard driving (as is the case for e36m3's) or if it has to do with road conditions? i would say don't worry about it until you regularly track your car.

the weight issue: well, that's unavoidable, isn't it? they are too small to engineer out the weight right now......

....cheers from boston,


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

I can't tell from your picture where that is, can you take a picture further away and put an arrow where to look . . . seriously !


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *I can't tell from your picture where that is, can you take a picture further away and put an arrow where to look . . . seriously ! *


If I must...

I am fairly certain this is the one


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> If I must...
> 
> I am fairly certain this is the one *


Thanks but am I supposed to find ths part by the rear wheel ? ?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Thanks but am I supposed to find ths part by the rear wheel ? ? *


Left rear

(I can't believe I'm on so early! I just woke up)


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Left rear
> 
> (I can't believe I'm on so early! I just woke up) *


Thanks again Nate . . .

BTW Do you EVER leave this board    Everytime I post to your reply, you seems to always be here

another BTW: I've been up since 7am :yikes: :yikes:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Thanks again Nate . . .
> 
> ...


I wasn't on for most of yesterday 

For some reason I woke up early, didn't have anything else to do :dunno:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> I wasn't on for most of yesterday
> 
> For some reason I woke up early, didn't have anything else to do :dunno: *


You need a break from the board . . . I'm going to post a good-bye thread to you . . . sorry to see you go :flipoff:


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## Jaysdiff (Oct 17, 2005)

*E36 325i saloon*

I have a problem like that but mine has ripped from the floor how much to get fixed or how do ya fix it please help


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## bmw330pp (Jan 12, 2005)

nate said:


> If I must...
> 
> I am fairly certain this is the one


I think the guy from roadfly is talking about the part that is circled. Thats the part going to the drive shaft.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

bmw330pp said:


> I think the guy from roadfly is talking about the part that is circled. Thats the part going to the drive shaft.


No, that's where the driveshaft connects to the diff. Separate issue, although that is pretty  as well.


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## bmw330pp (Jan 12, 2005)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> No, that's where the driveshaft connects to the diff. Separate issue, although that is pretty  as well.


The guy from roadfly is talking about the part I circled.

So you're telling me that diff mount/brace and driveshaft can come loose/off under hard driving conditions? I'm kinda worried because I had a weird sound coming from that area about a few months ago.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

bmw330pp said:


> So you're telling me that diff mount/brace and driveshaft can come loose/off under hard driving conditions? I'm kinda worried because I had a weird sound coming from that area about a few months ago.


 it's not all that uncommon to rip the diff carrier (subframe) out of the trunk floor.

i haven't heard of driveshaft failures on non-Ms, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

I wonder if I'll be more susceptible to this problem now that I have a shorter diff? I would imagine the increased torque could cause increased stress... :eeps:


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## iateyourcheese (Sep 9, 2004)

Straw poll time:

Do you think BMW has fixed this for newer (say '03 and up) cars? Or have we not seen many (any) cases just because these cars are newer?


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## bmw330pp (Jan 12, 2005)

iateyourcheese said:


> Straw poll time:
> 
> Do you think BMW has fixed this for newer (say '03 and up) cars? Or have we not seen many (any) cases just because these cars are newer?


I'd say #2. For example, look how long its taken to "fix" something as simple as the weather stripping on the coupe doors. :tsk: You would think that the last two model years of the e46 coupe wouldn't have this problem.........but guess what.


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## TerribleTrivium (Dec 11, 2013)

Where exactly can I look for this damage? Does it apply to the front and the rear? Is there's specific amount of miles these cars accumulate before this damage begins to show?


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