# Sticky  Official Claying Tips and Tricks: Share your techniques here!



## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

Drag'nGT said:


> If I don't have an orbital buffer. How would I be able to get that 'brand new' no swirls look? Just wax it after I clay it? Or do you guys suggest that new color coded wax to hide the little lines?


Veeeeeeerrrrrrry difficult without a buffer. Especially if the swirls are in the clearcoat, and not just in the wax. If the former, you really need to polish them out, and while this can be done by hand, again doing it and not leaving behind other swirls is a monumental task without a buffer.

That said, start by stripping the wax completely off (a good washing with detergent, like Dawn, would do it). Then clay the entire surface of the car to get the paint super clean.

Next, using a very mild hand polish, polish the worst 2 sq ft (1.4' x 1.4') area first according to the instructions for the polish, clean it off, and inspect. If you technique is leaving swirls, polish again and try to modify your technique to eliminate the swirls you are *adding*.

You won't be able to get it perfect. Get it as good as you can, then use a filler, like a glaze, to cover up the minor swirling that may still be there. Then wax.

This is where you'll get swirls again, but this time in the wax!! So once again, technique is critical.

A random orbita buffer makes all this childsplay, so I personally wouldn't even bother to try by hand. The PCRO is pretty inexpensive, especially in light of what you paid for the car, mousenuts.

The cost of one detailing will pay for the PCRO, some pads, and necessary car care products.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

So I clay-bar'd the 3er today for the first time. 

I am a newbie to the OCD philosophy, but I'm learning...would be interested in any constructive criticism to this regime:

First step was washing the car. I did it at 7AM, so no water spots. Washed wheels first, using 2 caps of car wash liquid (ok, its turtle wax car wash stuff from costco, but I have a lot of it so I'm going to use it up ). Took car around block to make sure water was off the rotors. 

Emptied bucket. Fill new bucket with one cap of car wash stuff; wash car; dry with water blade, then synthetic chamois. Went through inside with damp MF towel for dust etc. Cleaned windows inside and out using Autoglym Glass Polish on a MF towel. Remove glass polish with new MF towel.

Sprayed tires with tire dressing (the foamy kind). (I had some of the goppy stuff and I was going to make them "jet focking black" but decided not to :rofl: j/k)

Ok, so car is basically as clean as I usually have it, and I run my hand over the paint. Its clean but doesn't feel very smooth i.e. its not gritty but not smoooooooth...

I got out my Meguires clay bar and QD spray kit I'd bought. I kneaded the bar into two small patties. I dropped the first pattie on the ground (  ) and threw it away. :banghead: since I did not want to pick up dirt and put it on the car. 

I was surprised how little pressure I ended up using on the bar. A few quick spritz's of the QD spray and basically "wiped" the bar on the paint was all I did. I covered a small area at a time, then wiped off the excess using a clean MF towel.

I WAS STUNNED AT THE RESULTS. :yikes:

The paint was smoother than a woman's ... erm, sorry, I mean, the paint was extremely smooth. It was like, I don't know, glass, maybe, but very clean. You could really tell that the clay bar had removed a "layer" of gunk on the paint. I find it astonishing that the clay bar using the QD spray and just lightly holding it on the surface could have such an effect on the finish, but it did. For example, on the trunk lid and hood I just guided the bar along, letting gravity hold it on the finish.

I finished up by applying a layer of the last of my remaining MBZ car wax and threw the empty container in recycling (Time for new wax). Job done!


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## 04ZHPGuy (May 8, 2004)

alee said:


> This is the official thread for sharing your claying tricks, techniques and ideas. This is critical car care step that many people skip because it is either misunderstood or because people are afraid of trying it. Sharing your techniques and ideas here may encourage more people to try claying. :thumbup:
> 
> *Rules of the thread:*
> Let's keep it constructive! There is no single right way to clay your car! If you have a technique that works for you, share it with the group. If there is a particular product you like, let everyone know what it is, and more importantly, why you like it. If you have questions, ask away.
> ...


Do you "clay bar" a new car, or just older cars?


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

The OCD people will tell you to clay every other wash.
There is no need to clay until your car fails the bag test (and fail miserably, after it's been thoroughly washed, I might add).


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

~One man’s opinion / observations ~

Place some saran wrap or a zip lock bag over your hand and rub across the finish lightly. Every snag you feel is below surface contaminant that the Detailers Clay bar can remove but you may not be able to see. The best way to describe the proper method for using detailer clay is to use plenty of the lubricant and aquaplane the clay bar over the surface in straight-line motions.

Detailer’s Clay Application

·Divide the Detailer’s Clay into equal pieces and knead into a ball to ensure pliability 
·Take one of the pieces and flatten it out into a circle, approximately enough that it will fit into the foam clay holding pad. 
·Place the kneaded clay into a damp pad (Cleaning Clay Pad Groit’s P/N 11204) spray with a lubricating solution (Woolite™ or Dreft™/Water 5:1) the foam clay holder will retain moisture and enable an even pressure to be applied to the paint surface while using it.
·Spray evenly onto a two square foot section with the lubrication solution, ensure that the surface being clayed is always wet
·Glide the Clay across the area in a front to back in a straight-line aquaplaning type motion 
·Use an imaginary two-foot by two-foot square area to work on. 
·Use a light to medium even pressure until the surface becomes smooth and silent.
·If the Clay is streaking on the paint, you need more to apply more lubricating solution, it is better to over lubricate the paint film surface than let it dry-out
·When the Clay is moved across the paint film surface you should hear a friction sound and some resistance. This is the grit being lifted from the paint. When the resistance and noise stops, dry the solution off with 100% cotton Alpine DF Microfiber cloth. 
·If you drop the clay do not try to clean it, discard it or it may cause micro scratches in your paint film surface.
·To avoid wasting detailer’s clay because you probably will drop it, place a towel on the ground under the area you're claying so the clay will fall onto the towel without picking up gravel etc.
·Rinse of any clay residue and ensure there is no more contamination to remove 
·Move onto the next two-foot by two foot square area and repeat the process.
·Once half the section is completed turn the clay over to a fresh, clean side and complete the remaining section. 
·Check the surface of the clay often, once it becomes contaminated fold to a clean surface. 
·Wash, rinse and dry each section and ensure all imbedded surface contaminants have been removed before moving on to the next panel / section
·When complete wash, rinse and dry the vehicle to ensure removal of any clay / lubricant residue 

When the detailing clay becomes somewhat soiled from using it on the paint surface, set it aside for use on glass surfaces only, then when it becomes very soiled use it on the wheel surfaces. After this cycling discard it (do not use clay on class or wheel surfaces and then paint as it will contaminate the paint surface)


~Hope this helps~

Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/ Jon 
justadumbarchitect *so I question everything*


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

*Why do you clay? What is it's purpose?[/*



beware_phog said:


> Here's a simple question?
> 
> Why do you clay? What is it's purpose?


~One man's opinion / observations ~

Acid rain, road salt, tree sap and airborne contaminants are very detrimental to a vehicles paint film surface.
Brake dust or rail dust are very small, almost microscopic particles of steel, iron or their alloys. These particles carry a negative charge while the vehicles they land on are carrying a positive charge. The vehicle surface becomes a magnet, attracting and bonding the ferrous metal particles to the vehicle surface. Moisture and temperature create a corrosive chemical reaction with the metal particles. The corrosive chemical compounds generated then proceed to etch (corrode) the clear coat, penetrating and spreading the corrosives through the paint film surface (and the sheet metal), which results in both erosion of the paint surface and corrosion

Water and car wash concentrate will wash away the loose particles but not the embedded pollution. The sun acts as a catalyst to help these paint-toxic pollutants penetrate and destroy your paint film surface. Regardless of how clean you think your paint is there are still contaminants stuck on the paint that you need to remove before pre-wax cleaning, polishing or applying a protection to your paint. Detailer's Cleaning Clay leaves behind an ultra-smooth surface that will make your paint protection adhere better and improve its durability. It also makes the pre-wax cleaning more efficient and much easier.

~Hope this helps~

Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted&#8230;/ Jon 
justadumbarchitect *so I question everything*


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

wingspan said:


> So I clay-bar'd the 3er today for the first time.
> 
> I am a newbie to the OCD philosophy, but I'm learning...


 Welcome to the club! Note that within six months or so you will need to be on regular meds of some sort... 


wingspan said:


> Emptied bucket. Fill new bucket with one cap of car wash stuff; wash car; dry with water blade, then synthetic chamois.


DISCLAIMER: Keep in mind that car care product preferences are very subjective, and have a healthy dose of pure personal appeal. There are many excellent products on the market, so don't take anyone's individual endorsement as some sort of indication of "the best" out there, even though some will insist as much.

That said, there are some basic principles that apply to all products. In the case of car wash soap, the following rules of thumb apply:

Do not use detergent for ordinary washing. It will strip off the wax. In my ignorant days, before I became an OCD car care fanatic as a consequence of getting my bimmer, I used to routinely wash our cars with Dawn (Jeep Grand Cherokee, Toyota Corolla, Honda CRX, etc.). Didn't know I was taking the wax right off. Explains, though, why they didn't look so nice and glossy after 4 or 5 years. Oxidation.

Use a quality car wash soap that is specifically formulated to be gentle to wax, and very slippery. Slipperiness is the most important characteristic of a carwash product. The car gets clean primarily from the mechanical action of wiping the sponge, towel, or brush over the surface. The bucket-o-carwash diluted with water serves mostly the cleaning purpose of loosing the dirt as a solvent (mostly the water). The main purpose of the soap is to provide as friction-free a film on the surface as you drag your cleaning implement of choice over the surface, so that the dirt, dust, and grime you are removing doesn't scratch the clearcoat as your dragging it along.

Don't be stingy with the soap. A capful? BWAHAHAHAHAHA! :rofl: It's hard to use _too much_, provided you are using a quality soap that won't cut the wax. The more slippery, the better. See above. I'm a big fan of Griots car wash -- it meets the criteria I'm talking about here. I have a gallon bottle of the stuff. I'm quite generous with it, using about 0.25-0.5oz per gallon in a 5gal bucket. This is a bit more than Griots says to use, but I'm biasing against scratching during the washing process. Took me a year plus to use up the 16oz bottle I first bought before I ordered a gallon (thirty bucks).

Rinse your washing implement in the wash solution VERY FREQUENTLY. If I don't use all 4+ gallons of solution when I wash my car, I'm a failure.

Use warm water for the wash solution. Not hot!! Warm. Helps loosen the dirt.
As you experienced, no matter what you do to wash the car, you can't get everything off the paint. Clay is the only way, short of rubbing hard, which will just scratch it up.


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

04ZHPGuy said:


> Do you "clay bar" a new car, or just older cars?


You use clay on any car of any age before you are going to perform a task that will require rubbing the surface (like apply and removing wax).

Failing to do so will almost guarantee some scratching due to the microcontaminants that are stuck on the paint surface and won't come off with washing.

You pick up some of this stuff on the paint just by driving it home from the dealer after taking delivery. However, that's insignificant compared to what it's picked up on its journey from the factory, to the VPC, and then to your dealer before you got it. Even though the dealer "details" the car before you get it, this doesn't include a pass with a claybar. If they wax it as part of their detailing, you might find microscratching and swirls (and rarely, worse!!) on your new car because they don't generally do a clay pass before waxing.

I instructed my salesdroid to ensure that they did not wax my car prior to delivery, and that they could only wash it. I told him I wouldn't accept it otherwise. Also told him the same thing if they drilled the front bumper and attached a license plate frame. Thankfully, they followed my instructions, and were able to complete the sale


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## Nick T. (Feb 22, 2003)

My experience tells me that washing/drying is the step that is most likely to cause marring to your paint. Claying is relatively risk free if - - 1) the paint is CLEAN before claying, and 2) you use plenty of lubricant. Washing is risky because your are rubbing the paint with contaminants they may easily mar or scratch the paint.

Check this thread for claying tips and tricks.

1) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

2) When washing use TWO buckets - - one for your shampoo/water solution and one with clean water for rinsing your washing tool(s). When the rinse water gets dirty, then dump it and refill.

3) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

4) Rinse your wash tool frequently. I prefer MF towels instead of a wash mitt for washing because it gives you a better feel for the paint's surface. I generally use 4 to 6 towels for either of my small cars.

5) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

6) In my experience there is little or no difference between the various "standard brand" car shampoos. Follow the directions on the label - - use less if the car isn't very dirty.

7) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

8) Use lots of wash solution on the towel. Wipe, do not rub. Follow the wipe with a low pressure rinse from the hose.

9) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

10) If there are any spots that resist cleaning with just light pressure, then let them go and come back to them later and deal with them on an individual basis. Do NOT rub.

11) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

12) Difficult to remove things like baked on bugs often will come off more easily if you lay a soaking wet towel on the spot for a few minutes.

13) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!

14) Do not let the rinse water dry on the car! Dry each section as you go. Use a waffle weave MF towel for drying. Blot, don't wipe.

15) Keep in mind that rubbing grit across your paint causes marring!


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## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

Nick T. said:


> 14) Do not let the rinse water dry on the car! Dry each section as you go. Use a waffle weave MF towel for drying. Blot, don't wipe.


Somehow I always manage to rewet parts of the car, even if it's just splashes. I see your point about drying in sections, but that one seems easier said than done.


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

~One man’s opinion / observations ~
And now back to the clay tips, hints etc...


When the detailing clay becomes somewhat soiled from using it on the paint surface, set it aside for use on glass surfaces only, then when it becomes very soiled use it on the wheel surfaces. After this cycling discard it (do not use clay on class or wheel surfaces and then paint as it will contaminate the paint surface)

If you drop the clay do not try to clean it, discard it or it may cause micro scratches in your paint film surface.
To avoid wasting detailer’s clay because you probably will drop it, place a towel on the ground under the area you're claying so the clay will fall onto the towel without picking up gravel etc.

~Hope this helps~

Experience unshared; is knowledge wasted…/ Jon 
justadumbarchitect *so I question everything*


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

TOGWT said:


> When the detailing clay becomes somewhat soiled from using it on the paint surface, set it aside for use on glass surfaces only, then when it becomes very soiled use it on the wheel surfaces. After this cycling discard it (do not use clay on class or wheel surfaces and then paint as it will contaminate the paint surface)
> 
> [...]
> 
> To avoid wasting detailer's clay because you probably will drop it, place a towel on the ground under the area you're claying so the clay will fall onto the towel without picking up gravel etc.


Excellent tips! :thumbup:


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## johnnygraphic (Jun 26, 2004)

I was very skeptical about this whole 'claying' the paint. I've heard of other people talking about it in the recent past & had the deer in the headlights look. Never heard of a real detailer using clay on a car. Thought it was one of those late nite info-mercial products. Then I read about it on proper auto care's website. Turns out, that it is actually a fairly recent discovery in cleaning paint. So, I picked one up for my 4 year old 4-Runner (Black). All it took was a pass on a 2x2 portion of the hood. What came off the hood looked like grease! I am now a firm believer in claying a car. 

You shouldn't have any fears of using clay, as it is virtually idiot proof(as long as you follow the directions).

I have yet to set aside enough time to do my 330i. Still need to get a deal of Menzerna for some minor swirl removal. 

As a side note, I used Pinnacle Souveran paste wax on my Imola Red 330i,...Oh MAN! I spell it M-A-N. That's everything man!

Johnny


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## Brad4221 (Jun 7, 2005)

I have read post about the baggie test or the cling wrap test to see (or feel) if clay bar is needed. All I feel is cling wrap draging on a painted surface. Perhaps my finger tips aren't as sensitive as others on this post or I'm still not doing it right. Aside from that I hear that even new cars direct from the factory need clay bar but part of me feels that this is from people that want to sell clay bar.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Brad4221 said:


> I have read post about the baggie test or the cling wrap test to see (or feel) if clay bar is needed. All I feel is cling wrap draging on a painted surface. Perhaps my finger tips aren't as sensitive as others on this post or I'm still not doing it right. Aside from that I hear that even new cars direct from the factory need clay bar but part of me feels that this is from people that want to sell clay bar.


I'll be doing mine today (tree sap) but when I did my last car, the difference was really obvious.

I dunno about the baggie test but the car surface feels like, well, really really smooth when you run you hand over it. There's nothing you can see, its just amazing the difference between "done" and "not done yet" surfaces on the car.


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## Nick T. (Feb 22, 2003)

*Brad4221 - - *
Have some lubricant (soap/water mix) between the baggie and the paint, and use a very light pressure. If you don't feel any bumps on your paint, then do the baggie test on another (less cared for) car.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

alee said:


> This is the official thread for sharing your claying tricks, techniques and ideas. This is critical car care step that many people skip because it is either misunderstood or because people are afraid of trying it. Sharing your techniques and ideas here may encourage more people to try claying. :thumbup:
> 
> *Rules of the thread:*
> Let's keep it constructive! There is no single right way to clay your car! If you have a technique that works for you, share it with the group. If there is a particular product you like, let everyone know what it is, and more importantly, why you like it. If you have questions, ask away.
> ...


What camera phone did you use to take that picture?


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## x3r (Mar 10, 2005)

*1st time clayer*

i was skeptical about all this claying stuff so i first washed and then used a light paint cleaner (einsZett) on my car. used the paint cleaner first just to make sure that the clay bar wasn't doing the same thing the cleaner would do. i then simply ran my fingers lightly across the surfaces (no baggies or similar) to find the telltale junk left in the top layer. i took the clay bar to those areas and sure enough, it removed the contaminants and left the surface smooth as silk!

while one might have used a more abrasive cleaner to rid the paint of the contaminants, the clay bar provided quick results with a lot less work. i'm sold! i'd still recommend using a light cleaner first just to save your clay from picking up all of the stuff the cleaner removes.


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## zentenn (May 20, 2005)

I've had my car for 3 months now and am about to take the plunge and do the clay bar thing. After reading all the posts in this thread all of my questions have been answered, I think. There are a couple of things I want to get straight in my mind before I proceed.

1) How much pressure do you apply to the clay, if any?

2) Can you use any dish washing detergent to remove the old wax, or does it have to be Dawn? I've been told using the clay removes the wax, so why do you need Dawn?

3) After I clay the car, do I need to polish it before I wax it? THis is probably a stupid question and I guess the answer depends upon if there are any swirl marks or scratches.

I bought one of these and can't wait to use it









Edit: What is the advantage of washing the sides of your car vertically?


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## stream (Jan 24, 2005)

My answers are in bold below:



zentenn said:


> I've had my car for 3 months now and am about to take the plunge and do the clay bar thing. After reading all the posts in this thread all of my questions have been answered, I think. There are a couple of things I want to get straight in my mind before I proceed.
> 
> 1) How much pressure do you apply to the clay, if any?
> *Not very much. Allow it to glide over the surface, with a small amount of pressure. The key is to use plenty of lubricant.*
> ...


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## Guest84 (Dec 21, 2001)

Just wanted to add: Had these funky little dots of what looked like honey, stuck to the finish of my F250 pick up truck. Wouldn't come off with anything BUT claybar. Cleaned it up real good! I believe it may have been some sort of tree sap from one of our many camping vacations last year.

For years now, I ALWAYS clay first before using a porter cable.:thumbup:


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## nads12345 (Apr 18, 2004)

i clayed my car the other day thanks to you guys. i mena my car is old and was obviously not cared about before i owned it. after i was done claying my brother came outside to tell me that i am a loser and need to stop cleaning my car bu tthen froze and told me wow that paint looks new, then he felt it and said "wow you just waxed it?" and i told him no i just clayed it. (i was happy) any way i really appreciate your guys info and love to be OCD with cleaning my car :thumbup: :thumbup: claying is the way to go!!


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## houbmw (Apr 23, 2006)

hey, how do i clay when i am washing? After I hose the car down and soap the car off and rinse it off, then do i clay and rinse and then dry or what is the procedure???


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## nelsonpuzon (May 1, 2006)

Use ADAMS PRODUCTS!!! Go to www.whipappeal.net if you want to see how to really clean your car.
Go to the gallery and check out some of the before and after stuff
Dawn will make the car spotty and you'll end up having to do more work than you need to.
http://www.adamspolishes.com/

1)WASH IT! (Adams car wash) ooh it smells good and it works
2)CLAY IT! ( Adams Clay Bar with detail spray for lubrication)
3)POLISH IT! (Adams Polish)
4)WAX IT! (Adams Butter Wax)
5) GLAZE IT! (Adams Brilliant Spray glaze)
or
Let www.whipappeal.net do it for you!!! OC CALIFORNIA STYLE


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## nelsonpuzon (May 1, 2006)

*www.whipappeal.net*

My Brother and I have detailed over 30 cars since 2005. We prefer Adams Polishes ( www.adamspolishes.com ) products simply because we have spent thousands of dollars on all the other stuff and adams for some reason IS the the BEST in our opinion. We turned a 20 yr old egg white mercedes back to bright white with claying and lots of elbow greese.

As for a clay bar I Recomend without a doubt the clay bar from ADAMS... We have used most of the clay bars out there and Adams claybar takes the cake. I beleive its from Japan and probably the best in the world. Clay Magic, Mothers, Mcguires have nothing on this clay bar. It is super sticky when you work with it.

Our Procedure www.whipappeal.net
1.After washing you car.

2.Dry it with Adams detail spray and always use a clean microfiber towel. We never use terry clothes.:tsk:

3.Flaten out the clay bar. Then pick a section of a car and spray it with detail spray and rub the clay on the paint. The clay bar should glide right over and you should feel the contaminents catch onto the clay. Keep it lubed with detail spray. After rubbing through out the section, detail spary again and wipe with a microfiber cloth. Move to the next section until complete. Start from the top of the car cuz it is cleanest. Be sure to work the clay bar between each section so the clay is clean & fresh.

4.Then always polish it with Adams Polish & Adams scratch remover. This brings out a luster that you guys who only wax will never see. We use a High power machine with this step this. (Porter Cable w/ clean pads from Adams) Then wipe with a clean microfiber towel and detail spray.

5.Then we use the _*butter wax *_with a microfiber applicator and wipe with a clean microfiber towel and detail spray. (by now your calling all your friends to check out the colors that you've never seen in the paint) :thumbup:

6.This is our secret use the brilliant spary glaze to finish it off with a clean microfiber applicator and remove with a clean microfiber towel.

Start in the morning. This definetly is something that will take you 4-8 hrs. Did I stress to use a CLEAN MICROFIBER towel? Clean is the KEY anytime you touch your paint, if its not clean it will swirl. Dont wash your car too often either... Use adams detail spray and a clean microfiber towel as needed (weekly). Trust us everyone jocks how clean our cars look and their dirty to us. We generally wash our own cars once a month depending on if the detail spray just wont cut it. In Southern Cali you just cant roll dirty. We recomend this process every 6 months if not garaged.

We have detailed Brand new cars off the lot and brought out color in the paint that the dealer have never seen with our process. We recomend to do an exterior detail immediatley after purchasing your car because there are already contaminants and you want to seel it with a wax ASAP... That dupont stuff from the dealer is cool but it falls off within a year.

If you are in the Los Angeles or Orange County area www.whipappeal.net does full details starting at $225.00. Mention this Forum.[/COLOR][/I] We do exterior only starting at 125.00. We will go to your home or you can bring it to us.

Any further questions www.whipappeal.net Tell a friend about our special and check out the website!

Oh Sh**.. I forgot IF YOU DROP THE CLAY BAR ON THE GROUND IT IS DONE!!! THROW IT AWAY OR YOU WILL SCRATCH THE CAR! Try to use half of the clay bar until you get comfortable (it saves it)


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## Marcellus (Oct 11, 2006)

*New BMW owners: PLEASE CLAY!!!*

You will not be disappointed. I was like others on this board that did not think a new car needed this treatment. We purchased a new 2006 Monaco Blue 330i last week and after reading this thread, I decided to give it a try.

First of all, the BMW dealer did a fabulous job of detailing the car for delivery. I did not think it could get any better. But, after rubbing my hands over the horizontal surfaces, I could feel the tiny particles stuck to the finish. Purchased Meguiar's Quick Clay kit ($10) and went to it.

The hardest part of the clay process was getting the bar separated from its plastic wrapping without dropping the thing! I was paranoid about a game-ending "fumble."

After the first treatment with light pressure, I could still feel some spots so I repeated process with more pressure. The clay instantly lets you know if you don't have enough lubrication by sticking to the car. The little "skid marks" left by the enounter are easily wiped away.

The clay in this kit was white (as opposed to yellow), so you could easily see the gunk that came off the car. After about an hour, I had hood, roof and trunk lid smooth as glass. The wax job was very easy after having achieved such a smooth surface. All you Zaino/Klasse guys can give your collective "GASP" as I reveal my use of Black Magic Wet Shine Liquid Wax that CR rated #1 this Summer. I will order one of the other products one day, but I achieved very good results with this $6 product. Only complaint was that it required a lot of effort to wipe away the residue (not a dry residue, but rather a greasy one). CR also noted this in their review. I'll use the rest of it on my other cars.

Bottom line is that my initial opinion about claying was wrong and I'm glad I did it.

If any Zaino/Klasse guys want to recruit me to their respective teams, I'm still an "undecided."


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## sweetsweat (Mar 2, 2007)

*Wolfgang*

Hi. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the Wolfgang brand clay kit. If so, did you like it, or not? Why?


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## Steve530 (Dec 15, 2007)

I've read that some people use car wash detergent and water as a clay lubricant. So a couple of months ago when I clayed the car in preparation for a new application of Klasse, I gave it a try. I was very pleased with the results. 

Here's what I did:

1. Wash the car thoroughly. 
2. Rinse well, but do not dry.
3. Fill a spray bottle with a strong solution of car wash detergent and water (like 1:8).
4. Spray a panel with the solution and start claying.
5. Rinse the panel.
6. Repeat until all panels are complete.
7. A quick wash to assure all the clay residue is removed.
7. Final rinse.
8. Dry.

This leaves you with a perfectly smooth, squeaky clean finish ready for polishing. The car wash solution is cheaper than QD and works better, IMHO. You only have to dry the car at the end and you don't have to worry about buffing off the QD. And for the purists, you can determine the real condition of the paint without the gloss enhancers left behind by the QD. I use DuraGloss Car Wash 901 which has very good lubricity. 

Formerly, when I used QD as a clay lubricant, I had to wash the car again before polishing to assure that the Klasse AIO would bind to the surface. So this saves a step for me.


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## MashupMark (Jun 13, 2008)

Some interesting how to's on youtube:





 - skip about a minute in to avoid the advertising




 - skip two mins in to see actual claying




 - I don't think this guys technique is the best, but skip to 1:40 into it to see the difference between a clayed and unclayed surface.




 - shows just how much lubricant is needed! (maybe a little too much at times, but better safe than sorry!)

Hope its useful for some people to actually SEE claying in action.


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## MashupMark (Jun 13, 2008)

zentenn said:


> 2) Can you use any dish washing detergent to remove the old wax, or does it have to be Dawn? I've been told using the clay removes the wax, so why do you need Dawn?


Just a note to this point... From personal experience you should NEVER use washing detergent (the same you wash dishes with, I presume this is what you mean!) on your car.

I used to do it all the time on my old cars, till I had a bad reaction with washing liquid and wax!

The strong alkalis used in washing detergent kills most wax, but in my case, it react under the wax in what appeared as large white smears and swirls.

Its a mistake I'll never make again and hopefully can serve as a warning for anyone else out there  :thumbup:


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## SiegeX (Aug 17, 2008)

What do you use to remove the old wax before claying then? It was my understanding that the standard car wash soap is meant to be wax-friendly and thus not remove it.


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## WDW1Fanatic (Aug 6, 2008)

SiegeX said:


> What do you use to remove the old wax before claying then? It was my understanding that the standard car wash soap is meant to be wax-friendly and thus not remove it.


I use Dawn. I've used Zaino products for years, and it's the standard recommended thing to use the first time before clay and application of the first layer of Zaino. After that, I use Z7 which is polish-friendly.


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## autogeek (Jul 24, 2008)

MashupMark said:


> Just a note to this point... From personal experience you should NEVER use washing detergent (the same you wash dishes with, I presume this is what you mean!) on your car.
> 
> I used to do it all the time on my old cars, till I had a bad reaction with washing liquid and wax!
> 
> ...


Great advice. We have also noticed that black trim dries out and fades quicker when washed with a strong alkali detergent.


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## SiegeX (Aug 17, 2008)

So I'm still confused. If you're not supposed to use something like dawn to remove wax, and standard car soap is meant to be kind to wax, what does one use to remove wax and still be easy on the trim?


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## WDW1Fanatic (Aug 6, 2008)

SiegeX said:


> So I'm still confused. If you're not supposed to use something like dawn to remove wax, and standard car soap is meant to be kind to wax, what does one use to remove wax and still be easy on the trim?


Personally, I'm not paranoid to use Dawn only once for literally a few minutes over the multiple-year life of owning my car. A good rinse, and it's gone. It appears to do it's job to take off the old wax or polish and allows me to start my own regime with more friendly products as I mentioned above. When I decide to clay again, since I'm into the Zaino products, I just use a little Z7 watered down in a spray bottle as the lube. I've seen no problem from my perspective across 3 new Lexus with stellar paint jobs, a Toyota and a Honda -- both light and very dark metallic colors, and a number of years doing this. Once my new Monaco E93 arrives in October, it will be treated the same way -- the day it arrives home. My take is you're more likely to create a problem if you used something like Dawn as your regular car washing detergent over-and-over-and-over or did a crappy job on the rinse, not with just a single use as I do.


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## hexy27 (Jul 31, 2008)

Will the clay bar remove oxidation spots from the chrome trim around the windows as well? I have tried seemingly EVERYTHING to get this off and it still looks like crap. Any help is appreciated.


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## slojo (Jan 8, 2008)

*Wash after clay?*

Do I have to wash the car again after claying or can I just go ahead and apply AIO?


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## edgedude (Oct 24, 2008)

I clayed my filthy Alpine White 328iC. It was amazing. I could see the puddles of brown as the clay dislodged the dirt, grime and rust into the bar and lubricant. The clay pulled all the rust specs in the lower panels behind the wheels and in the crevices next to the moldings. It really made the car 7 years younger. Now I have to polish with a rotary with Menzerna IP and finish with Menzerna Micro Polish and wax with NXT. It took me 5 hrs to clay the car but it brought new life to the paint.


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## KHarney (Jul 30, 2009)

So a Few questions. How long does it take to clay a car (small one like an E93) ? And once done how much time do you have to get the polishing done ? And how long does the polishing take ? Where I am going with this is amd I better off doing like one small area like a roof and then polishing and completing it or say doing the clay the first weekend and then polishing the next weekend and then waxing the following .....


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## Cirrusnine (Mar 8, 2006)

KHarney said:


> So a Few questions. How long does it take to clay a car (small one like an E93) ? And once done how much time do you have to get the polishing done ? And how long does the polishing take ? Where I am going with this is amd I better off doing like one small area like a roof and then polishing and completing it or say doing the clay the first weekend and then polishing the next weekend and then waxing the following .....


That depends on how contaminated your paint is. If it's heavily contaminated it will take longer to clay.
I did a first clay on my 2003 530 and it took about an hour. Second wash then dried and drove into the garage for an application of P21S Gloss Enhancing Paintwork Cleanser (1-hr), then a final coat of Meguiar's #26 High Tech Yellow Wax (1-hr).

So, I'd say between 3 - 4 hrs at a good pace on a warm day where the water and treatments dry quickly. Probably best to go slowly at first until you get a feel for the clay process.

Good luck!


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## SFT540i6 (Nov 28, 2011)

KHarney said:


> So a Few questions. How long does it take to clay a car (small one like an E93) ? And once done how much time do you have to get the polishing done ? And how long does the polishing take ? Where I am going with this is amd I better off doing like one small area like a roof and then polishing and completing it or say doing the clay the first weekend and then polishing the next weekend and then waxing the following .....


I typically clay the entire car which takes 30 minutes or so depending on the condition of the paint. There is no set time limit to get the polishing done. However keep in mind that polishes tend to gum up and dry very quickly. So you'll need to a 2' x 2' section at a time ensuring you wipe away the polish after you've completed each section. In addition, polishing by hand is, for lack of a better description, POINTLESS. There is no way that you will produce the speed necessary to cut into the top layer of your clear coat. With that said you'll need a machine to assist you but this can also get confusing because most of the polishers sold at the parts stores and Walmart are also inadequate and again pointless. They typically have an rpm range of 3k-5k rpm and that just isn't good enough. You'll need to venture to your local Lowes or Home Depot and find yourself a dual action polisher (Porter Cable is the brand I use) what you're looking for is a polisher than produces around 12k rpm. This will provide the speed required to actually polish the surface. Polishing can be a lengthy process especially for a newbie but I suggest that you take it slow to start. I polish using a horizontal/vertical technique that has worked great for me. Basically in my 2' x 2' working section I start off by applying my polish to a light/medium foam polishing pad and before turning the machine on I dab the polish all over my working surface. Doing this will prevent splatter. I then start in a horizontal motion and go over the surface doing two passes. I then switch to a vertical movement and again do two passes. I then wipe away the polish and buff the surface. Then I move on to another section. Once the entire car has been polished you'll need to wax. Waxing generally takes me about 45 minutes. So to clay bar - polish - wax you're looking at a total time of 3-6 hours. Good luck!


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## bimmermodel (Jun 19, 2012)

*Use Aardex snappy wax, and a clay bar. Keep spraying Ardex and use the claybar in a swirl motion. I professionally detail BMWs for a living*


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## 4thBMW (Aug 6, 2010)

*Synthetic clay bar !!!*

OK, I posted a responce to "waxes vs. 'sealers' on the E39 forum. I got long winded over some *Four Star Products* detailing products that I sounded like a pitch man. I am, not because I know their pitch man and master 'detailer' and chemist, but because I truly like the products and use some of them. Has anyone here tried their synthetic clay bar? It is a foam bar with one side coated with a rubbery synthetic stuff that pulls contaminants up from the paint like an organic clay bar. guess what? you drop the bar and don't throw it away! I just wipe it (usually on my leg) and keep on claying after my wash. I did use the Four Star Ultimate Spray Wax Plus as the lube and just wiped that off for a little protection kicker over the "Paint Guard Plus" sealer. This clay bar is truly trick. lasts a long time. I now use their spray on Water-less 'Wash' with *polycharger*. It has more polycharger (the stuff that adheres to the surface on a molecular basis) and no Carnuba which the Spray Wax Plus (poly) has some. so, it effectively leaves some more of that synthetic sealer on after claying (which I assume can remove a bit of sealant). I was advised that on a BLACK (sapphire metallic) 540iT Sportwagon like mine or similar dark color, that any Carnuba wax will just melt off in higher heat of sunlight on that surface pretty quick. I'll chime in later as I have just converted to the 'waterless wash'/ lube from the other. BTW, don't use anyone's 'water-less wash' products without washing your paint with soap and water first....or, you will probably just be adding to your scratch collection. Ask me how I know with 2 black cars. If anyone uses the synthetic clay bar, post your thoughts. Oh, the test is to put your hand in a plastic bag and run your finger tips over the paint after the water wash and then after clay baring to feel the difference in surface texture and results.


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## jhockey18aa (Feb 3, 2012)

Im pretty much sold on claying. The hood of my 2011 328XI has been thru a warzone of contaminents, scratches, oxidation, bird droppings, tar, etc. I've washed/waxed, and had it professionally detailed. Its no where close to the factory finish. I want to make it better than the factory finish.


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## BikeGeek (Dec 20, 2012)

Clay baring your car is one of the most important steps of a paint decontamination process. But before you clay you must remove the LSP or other wax/sealants from the surface. Since this is a thread about clay baring I am not going to go into detail of the LSP removal process. 

After removing the LSP, begin claying as the first thorough post #4 on page 1. Nice writeup Nick T.! It is key to use lots of lubricant. Not using enough lubricant will cause you to scratch, mar, and severely damage your clear coat. I recommend using ONR (Optimum No-Rinse). This product is excellent for multiple purposes (including washing during winter months or water restrictions). You can use this in any spray bottle and dilute it for many uses. I personally use a Kwazar bottle due to the dual spray ability (you squeeze, it sprays, you release, it sprays) and this really saves your hands if you do multiple cars a day or intend on doing an all-day (...and maybe night) detail.

There are different types of clays depending on the severity of the contamination. I keep several types floating around, all in their own clean containers and soaked in a quick detail spray. There was a product released earlier this year called NanoSkin AutoScrub that has greatly simplified the claying process. If you use traditional clays, make sure you cut yourself a smaller working piece at a time, and if it drops to the floor DISCARD IT! Clay is cheap, resprays are not. If you use the AutoScrub on your DA and it gets dirty, you can wash it off. The reason I bring up the AutoScrub is it has cut my times down to about 20 minutes per car. As a detail hobbyist this is important because it gives me more time to focus on polishing and applying the LSPs post decontamination. 

Anyways, as a new comer to the forum I wanted to chime in and offer a small contribution, and if anyone wants more information or product recommendations feel free to reach out! If you are timid about doing all of this on your own, I'm in the north Dallas area and offer my services for far less than what the pros do and I will teach you while I renew your ride!

Good luck and happy holidays!


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## craig.robinson (May 28, 2013)

*Miami detailer wanted*

Hi all where can I find a moderately priced detailer who will come to my home in Doral.

I want to go clear coat route, though first clay. swirl, & shine.

Craig


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## craig.robinson (May 28, 2013)

Hi all, found a great (not cheap) detailer in Miami who really "gets it". Lead from one of our 5 series members - thank you !

Here's what he was able to do with my 2005 CLK500 - I was amazed, paint came out nicer than my wife's 2010 328i,

See for yourself here: 




Work performed
Clay
Swirls
Polish
Opti-coat
Canvas top cleaning & waterproofing


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## Mbrown328dx (Mar 22, 2014)

I think I'm going to try it first on my daily driver(07 Chrysler Sebring) and see how well I do. I'm sure it's posted somewhere but I'm going to ask the question anyway. What are your recommended products of choice?
Shampoo
MFN clothes
Detailed
Clay
Lubricant for clay
Polish
Wax
Wheel cleaner
Any other products

Thanks


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## Pier7 (Feb 18, 2013)

*Claying was easy and fun thanks for the great tips!*

Finally went for it and clayed my e92 last night. It was easy and fun. You really get to know your cars surface/spot so much more than you normally see when doing a regular wash and dry IMO. Thank you Nick for all the great insights and reco's


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## PeteInCA (Dec 13, 2014)

Has anyone tried Nanoskin as a clay alternative?


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## rjalbright3 (Sep 3, 2015)

Nanoskin is great only when you plan to polish your vehicle before waxing or sealing. It cuts the time of the clay process down to 15min, but also is more susceptible to lightly mar the paint.


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## ArjanRDC (Sep 8, 2015)

Heres a blog post I created about clay bars and how to use them a couple months back.

http://www.royaldetailclub.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-clay-bars/

--------------------------

A clay bar is typically made of synthetic clay that allows the user to mold and reuse many times. Clay is used to remove surface contaminants that have stuck to the paintwork and the glass, and cannot be removed any other way. Some examples of the contaminants are: brake dust, paint overspray, industrial fallout, tree sap etc.

When you glide your hand along the surface of the paint, your hand will either glide across smoothly, or it will be interrupted along the way by little bumps on the surface. Those bumps are the contaminants that the clay bar removes. Clay bars will not remove rock chips, scratches, water spots, swirls or etched in bug remnants. Basically anything on the surface of the paint will be removed, but anything that has found its way under the clear coat must be removed with polishing.









Using a clay bar is an excellent way to insure a deep shine in your cars paint. We recommend clay barring every six months to ensure that smooth-as-glass feel.

Below is my 9-step technique for using a clay bar on a freshly washed vehicle from start to finish.

First make sure that you need to clay bar your car. With a freshly washed car, put a sandwich bag over your hand and run it along the paintwork. If it feels gritty or rough, you need to clay bar.
Bring your car into shade and make sure it is completely dirt free. Cut your clay bar into three separate sections. Now you have 3 separate clay bars just in case you drop one (NEVER re-use a clay bar after it has fallen on the ground).









Knead the clay bar with your fingers, and flatten it. You'll want to knead it often as you work different sections of the car.









Work each 1'x1'; panel one at a time. Use a spray clay lubricant (we'll be using Xipp) to keep the surface properly lubricated. The clay bar needs to glide over the surface. There should be almost no friction.









Using medium pressure work the panel in up and down and side to side in cross hatch motions. The clay bar may grab a little at first when it's picking up the embedded contaminants, but will begin to slide smoothly on the paint after each swipe. Once the clay bar slides without effort across the panel, its time to switch to a new panel.









Be sure to knead the ball of clay after each panel. This step makes sure that contaminants that were removed from another panel aren't grinding across a new section, causing scratches.
After each panel is done, wipe clean with a high quality microfiber towel.









Repeat the same steps for rims and glass. (Bonus Tip: Use your "used" clay bars for cleaning rims and glass. Always use a brand new clay bar for your paint).
Once the vehicle is completely clayed, you should place a wax or sealant over the top to keep the paint protected.


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## Ocd619 (Aug 29, 2016)

hexy27 said:


> Will the clay bar remove oxidation spots from the chrome trim around the windows as well? I have tried seemingly EVERYTHING to get this off and it still looks like crap. Any help is appreciated.


If you get very fine steel wool and glass cleaner, hardly any pressure. 
If it's chrome or plasticized chrome it will clean off contaminated areas. 
If it's gone to the point of erosion it will help the look. But not fix


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## i3Doug (Apr 12, 2017)

*A few tips from a limited clay user*

1. If you DROP your clay TOSS it in the trash. Don't try to fold over the bits of stone and sand, just throw it away.

2. I tear off about 1/3-1/4 of a bar, folding it over onto itself a few times then flattening it out so that 2-3 fingers can easily fit on the clay to prevent it from slipping and hitting the ground. Dropping just 1/4 of a bar is less painful on the wallet also.

3. Every few 1'x1' sections you clay CHECK the clay itself for the amount of contaminants in it! If it's clogged up with anything you can feel protruding flip it over and start again. Otherwise you can fold and mash it a few times to get a fresh, clean surface to use. Forgetting to do this WILL scratch your car to death. Clay is cheap, paint aint!

4. Either use a clay lubricant (expensive) or just soapy water (cheap, but harder to work with) when using your clay. Soapy water will need to be rinsed off after doing a couple of 1'x1' areas, but use liberally to keep your paint protected. If the clay hits the paint without lubricant it can really bite into it, and damage it to varying degrees.

5. Check what grade of clay you need for the job you're doing: there's fine, medium and heavy/rough. When in doubt use the least abrasive one and unless you simply can't get something out of the paint stick with the least abrasive type you can get away with.

6. Remove ALL jewelry, cell phones, rings, etc so nothing hits the car and damages some paint. Also, check your shorts/pants/shirt/whatever to buttons, zippers, heavy seams, etc that could also mar your paint if rubbed along it with enough pressure.

On a side not I never recommend using dish soap on a car as it's not designed to work with the oils, lubricants and chemical make-up of car paint. Just a few uses can pull the essential oils or components from the paint. Ammo NYC, Zaino, and others make really great soaps for protecting your paint and keeping it looking good for many years.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Dish soap isn't soap but detergent. Detergents like DAWN are used to de-grease/de-wax prior to claying and polishing. Soap is easily made. Detergents are cheap.

I use brand names only when I can't find/get the generic chemical compound.


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## southcoastguy (Jan 3, 2017)

Here is my technique and I detail cars as a hobby. I was the car but don't rinse. I use the claybar and the soapy wash water as a lubricant. There is absolutely no need to use anything else as a lubricant. I use broad strokes with minimal pressure, and harder pressure where I see (or feel) something. Then I rewash the car and rinse. Result is an ultra-clean car.


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## coolrockdaddy (Apr 3, 2015)

Nanoskin pads work as well as clay bar and can be rinsed off if dropped on the ground. About $30 but they last for dozens of times and can be used with 6" orbital polisher for excellent results.

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## coolrockdaddy (Apr 3, 2015)

coolrockdaddy said:


> Nanoskin pads work as well as clay bar and can be rinsed off if dropped on the ground. About $30 but they last for dozens of times and can be used with 6" orbital polisher for excellent results.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


http://www.detailing.com/store/nanoskin-car-care-products.html

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## coolrockdaddy (Apr 3, 2015)

coolrockdaddy said:


> http://www.detailing.com/store/nanoskin-car-care-products.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


http://www.detailing.com/store/nanoskin-auto-scrub-pad-medium-grade-6-inch.html

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## coolrockdaddy (Apr 3, 2015)

coolrockdaddy said:


> http://www.detailing.com/store/nanoskin-auto-scrub-pad-medium-grade-6-inch.html
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


$32 at Amazon

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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