# I'm at the Nordschleife and I can't get in... ticket for sale!



## gabo2k (Jul 13, 2006)

Apparently, they only check for temporary plates during the first couple of weeks that they are open.

I have 8 laps for sale for 80 Euros. Paid 124 Euros.

Hopefully someone traveling after May can purchase them. If there is a problem, I will refund the money, no questions asked.

Weird how they were not able to refund my money.

Other than that, Germany is cool...

I am enjoying the coupe. I took it up to 140mph, and the car was like nothing.

Oil temperature peaked at 235 F in Parisian traffic, and never went beyond that.

I will post pictures soon.

Gabo2k


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Did you show them your registration and Insurance information??:eeps: 

You are fully insured and registered. Show them that... I bet they'll change their mind.


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## gabo2k (Jul 13, 2006)

Hey Beewang.

I will try that again tomorrw.

This will be my third attempt.

If that fails, I will see if I can at least have a ride on a bus or something.

I did meet a few fellows from Ireland. I offered them my 8 lap ticket for two rides around in their car and $80.

I hope that works out. If not, I already have a buyer for the 8 lap ticket.

Your DVD works amazingly well. I just got back from having dinner in Andenau. I missed a turn and was routed through some forest. I was a bit scarry, but I made it!

I´ve run into many nice cars here. I just wish I could come more often.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

So should we take no news to be good news? Did you go off at Phlanzgarten or Breidscheid or Karussell?

What came of your attempts to show your registration and insurance paperwork to the track workers who wouldn't let you on?

-MrB


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

It looks like this might actually be the case now...

For those of you who don't read the E90 board...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2295734&postcount=25

It doesn't look good for us ED'ers wanting to get some laps in on the Ring.

-MrB


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## lensman314 (Apr 28, 2006)

This is really disheartening, because my trip plans in June included 2 days here. I have been practicing and learning the track in a M3 on Gran Turismo 4.
If i was not able to drive it because of the weather I would have been fine with not driving it, but them not allowing what they have previously allowed? Is it possible to rent a ring-car out there for a couple of hours the same day, or would I have to book one in advance?


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

I have sent an email to the PR department at the 'Ring, with wikipedia links and images of the various plates in an attempt to get the "final" word on whether the Zoll plates that are issued for ED cars are valid or invalid for driving on the Ring. My first email just got a stock response that temporary and transfer plates are not allowed, but I was still confused about where the Zoll plates fit in to that, so I sent a clarification email. Hoping to get response here shortly. The first response came back very quickly.

-MrB


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## baloo (Nov 19, 2004)

lensman314 said:


> This is really disheartening, because my trip plans in June included 2 days here. I have been practicing and learning the track in a M3 on Gran Turismo 4.
> If i was not able to drive it because of the weather I would have been fine with not driving it, but them not allowing what they have previously allowed? Is it possible to rent a ring-car out there for a couple of hours the same day, or would I have to book one in advance?


www.rent-racecar.de has a few BMW's. Not sure if they do same-day rentals, though.


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## lensman314 (Apr 28, 2006)

baloo said:


> www.rent-racecar.de has a few BMW's. Not sure if they do same-day rentals, though.


Yea, was looking at their site earlier. I might email them later and see what would be availible.

I also posted a query relating to all of this on the Ringers forum. Hoepfully someone there can shed some light.

Hopefully, I can drive the ring at least once. If in my own car, that would be even better.


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## Noelski (Aug 2, 2006)

I have a message in to Frank at the Ringhaus asking him to look into this matter. It would be a major bummer if we could not take the new BMW on the Ring. If it works out to be the case we are not allowed, I will ensure BMW AG hears about it. They may have some pull at the Ring as they appear to spend a few Euros there. And, yea I can always rent an E30 as a backup plan.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

mrbelk said:


> I have sent an email to the PR department at the 'Ring, with wikipedia links and images of the various plates in an attempt to get the "final" word on whether the Zoll plates that are issued for ED cars are valid or invalid for driving on the Ring. My first email just got a stock response that temporary and transfer plates are not allowed, but I was still confused about where the Zoll plates fit in to that, so I sent a clarification email. Hoping to get response here shortly. The first response came back very quickly.
> 
> -MrB


Good News from the Nurburgring offices... I am attaching the transcript of an email conversation that I am having with on "A. Manuel Becker," who responds to inquiries at [email protected].



gmail said:


> Dear Mr. Belk,
> 
> with the following plates you are not allowed to drive on the Nordschleife:
> 
> ...


Here is the relevant section of the rules that is causing us so much angst...



nurburgring regulations said:


> § 1 - Driving licences
> 
> 1. Only vehicles that conform to the 'Regulations Authorizing the Use of Vehicles for Road Traffic' (StVZO) may be driven at the Nürburg Ring. Vehicles that due to their design type or technical condition have a maximum speed limit of 60 km/h are excluded from taking part in drives.
> 2. All vehicle drivers must be in possession of a valid ticket from Nürburgring GmbH and a valid driving licence.
> 3. Vehicles with transportation plates (red ones), and those with temporary registration plates are not allowed at all; an exception to this regulation are vehicles with vintage car registration plates (which can be used for more than one vehicle), but this will no longer apply after 31.12.2005.


So this appears to be the "final word" on that.

-MrB


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## lensman314 (Apr 28, 2006)

Interesting. I still may be confused, but then its been a long day. Are the Zoll plates with black numbers on white background with red stripes considered "temporary registration plates" or "transportation plates" which are not allowed according to:


> Originally Posted by *nurburgring regulations *
> § 1 - Driving licences
> 
> 1. Only vehicles that conform to the 'Regulations Authorizing the Use of Vehicles for Road Traffic' (StVZO) may be driven at the Nürburg Ring. Vehicles that due to their design type or technical condition have a maximum speed limit of 60 km/h are excluded from taking part in drives.
> ...


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

lensman314 said:


> Interesting. I still may be confused, but then its been a long day. Are the Zoll plates with black numbers on white background with red stripes considered "temporary registration plates" or "transportation plates" which are not allowed according to:


I think you are still confused, although after re-reading my post I can see that I didn't clearly convey the positive outcome of my inquiry with the Ring offices.

To sum up...

According to M. Becker in the Nurburgring GmbH offices, the Zoll plates issued for ED vehicles are neither "temporary" nor "transfer" and are perfectly valid for driving on the 'Ring. That's why I said it was "good news."

The only plates that are "verboten" are the ones with red lettering and numbers beginning in "06" (like DD-06xxx, indicating a dealer tag used for test drives, etc), or plates where the numbers begin with an "04" (like DD-04xxx, indicating a temporary tag like when you first buy the car and haven't received your permanent plate), and plates for antique vehicles.

-MrB


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## lensman314 (Apr 28, 2006)

Thats what I thought you meant! I too hope this is good news, and that the marshals there are told the Zoll plates are nicht verboten by the time you and I get there!


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

lensman314 said:


> Thats what I thought you meant! I too hope this is good news, and that the marshals there are told the Zoll plates are nicht verboten by the time you and I get there!


My final followup question to Mr. Becker was basically "what can I say to a track marshal who is not allowing me to drive on the Ring to convince him that my Zoll plates do not fall under the "temporary" or "transfer" categories?" Hope to get a response tomorrow. It seems that they only check and respond to their email daily.

-MrB


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## gabo2k (Jul 13, 2006)

I tried to get on the track four different times, showed my registration and insurance documents with no luck. They would not budge.

I will be totally pissed if I now find out that I could have been on the track, I'm in the U.S. now.

I did get to ride in an Evo5, and let me tell you that I nearly lost my breakfast at the end of the run.

Also, the poor Evo5 was rattling like crazy.

It is an intense track. I don't think you can do more that a lap every few hours. It is torture on a car.

In my trip I put 2,500 miles on the car. Near the end of my trip I disactivated all traction control nannies and did a full peel-out. The rear tires burned for a full 1/3 block length before I got good traction.

This car is a beast.:thumbup:


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

I read about your "ordeal" with great anxiety and interest this weekend. That's what prompted me to email the nurburgring offices about the zoll plates. Rest assured that I will take a copy of my entire email conversation with Mr. Becker and show it and my registration and insurance papers to whomever might block my attempts.

My suspicion is still that some of the folks in the ticket office and the track marshals must not see too many of the zoll plates and just adopt a policy of no admittance for plates they don't recognize. Since you were there on a very busy holiday weekend, it's also possible that the "B" team was on duty.

-MrB


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

I suggest a copy of the email translated in German too.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

gabo2k said:


> It is an intense track. I don't think you can do more that a lap every few hours. It is torture on a car.


I have been told by people who know much more about these things than I do, that a day on the 'ring is fairly mild on a car compared to most tracks in the U.S. because of its many relatively straight sections.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

cwsqbm said:


> I suggest a copy of the email translated in German too.


Very good idea.

-MrB


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Some Biere from Stiegl are available but Goldbräu is not unfortuantely.


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## baloo (Nov 19, 2004)

mrbelk said:


> Good to know.
> 
> Maybe they only have the gate marshals on the weekend tourist days? If that's the case, then as long as we drive during the week, we might never even need to interact with a human who could turn us away.
> 
> -MrB


If you want to find out, there's a webcam at the gates:


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## thugus (Mar 2, 2007)

If anyone attempted to get on the Ring with an ED car, please post your experience. I have been checking the webcam, and pretty much there is someone near the gate when the track is open. Perhaps it is for incoming vehicles getting off the track...

Thugus.


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## carrering (Apr 30, 2007)

i found this post while searching for clarification on the new bans for tempoary plates. I'm in the same boat as many of you. picking up a car in June with the sole purpose of driving the ring. been really a bummer for the past 3 weeks since I found out the bad news.

My backup plan is to go to a private track day at the ring hosted by a local race shop. That still sucks since I am down to only one day driving the track vs. 5 days straight.

An alternate choice for those of you planning on picking up ED cars is to attend the BMW international driving school at the ring in August. I am signed up for now but working out with my insurance company leaving the car in storage for a month before the school begins.

On a final note. I wouldn't recommend driving the track unless you have some serious track time under your belt with instruction. This track is definitely no place to start learning especially on a public day. I have been to driving schools for the past 5 years and I just went for my first time to the ring last august. If you are picking up european delivery and want a taste of the track w/o spending the fortune on the ring taxi, try hooking up with some folks out of northloop.co.uk. several of them drive the track frequently and they are about the friendliest group I have met. I met up with a few of these folks on my trip out there last august. I rode with a very great driver from scottland who keeps his CSL in germany just to drive it on the ring. He had literally over 1000 laps under his belt. needless to say, the ride with him in that car was exhilerating. He also rode along with me and helped to guide my way through it. i have to say though that you have to use your own judgement on who you ride with. keep in mind this track is very very dangerous. wouldn't be great to hop a ride with someone who doesn't know the track or worse...also a hothead.


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## L Seca (Apr 22, 2005)

carrering said:


> An alternate choice for those of you planning on picking up ED cars is to attend the BMW international driving school at the ring in August. I am signed up for now but working out with my insurance company leaving the car in storage for a month before the school begins.


I'm planning do the same thing. I'll see you there!

I sent you a PM also.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

carrering said:


> but working out with my insurance company leaving the car in storage for a month before the school begins.


Hi, just trying to understand: since your car has to be insured by BMW's insurance until you drop it off in Europe, how are you trying to insure it with your own company?


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## carrering (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm not picking up a BMW. next town over and this company doesn't give anything for free unfortunately. I only get 2 weeks of insurance with them. after that I have to pay a rediculous ammount to cover it. cheaper to go with my own insurance company however i'm probably not going to make the school this year.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

carrering said:


> I'm not picking up a BMW. next town over and this company doesn't give anything for free unfortunately. I only get 2 weeks of insurance with them. after that I have to pay a rediculous ammount to cover it. cheaper to go with my own insurance company however i'm probably not going to make the school this year.


No the people in Ingolstadt do not give anything for free. BMW only gives two weeks for free also, just to be fair.

With BMW you have to insure the car (with Allianz) for the entire period you will have it, until the date you turn it in to Harms.

Sorry you can't make it to the school.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Jspira said:


> Some Biere from Stiegl are available but Goldbräu is not unfortuantely.


Say J, did you ever get a chance to talk to a sympathetic ear about this issue?

(I don't know how much longer I can contain my finger from clicking and ordering you a case of brews...)


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

adc said:


> Say J, did you ever get a chance to talk to a sympathetic ear about this issue?


Thanks for thinking of my Bier crisis. Just spoke to the distributor and importer last week actually (again). 



adc said:


> (I don't know how much longer I can contain my finger from clicking and ordering you a case of brews...)


Where can one order this from?


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Jspira said:


> adc said:
> 
> 
> > Say J, did you ever get a chance to talk to a sympathetic ear about this issue?
> ...


I think that adc was referring to the issue of Zoll plates on the Nurburgring? :dunno:

-MrB


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

mrbelk said:


> I think that adc was referring to the issue of Zoll plates on the Nurburgring? :dunno:
> 
> -MrB


Well, yes. 

As to the beer selection, I'm pretty serious about ordering J a case of his preferred brew, but hopefully not the unobtanium Goldbräu - as long as he PMs me his distributor and address... :thumbup:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Oh, on that topic - I tried but cannot get anyone's attention. 

Everyone is very busy with, ahem, BMW Welt issues. But I will keep trying.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

adc said:


> Well, yes.
> 
> As to the beer selection, I'm pretty serious about ordering J a case of his preferred brew, but hopefully not the unobtanium Goldbräu - as long as he PMs me his distributor and address... :thumbup:


You are very kind and thoughtful.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Jspira said:


> You are very kind and thoughtful.


Beer does that to me...


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

Mmmmm Beeeerrrr!

bumping post, but any news.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

gmlav8r said:


> bumping post, but any news.


Well there don't seem to be encouraging news so far. I will be at the Ring on July 1st and will try to get in with my car. If that fails, I'll book a track rental from one of the many companies that offer it, for just a few laps. :dunno:

I'm waiting for the ED packet - once I receive that, I'll try to contact Allianz to get a statement/letter from them (with contact info) that specifies ED cars are allowed to drive at the ring from an insurance standpoint.

Either way, I'll keep the board posted.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

For your reading displeasure:

http://autos.ninebean.com/ringers/viewtopic.php?t=39074&start=15

-MrB


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

mrbelk said:


> For your reading displeasure:
> 
> http://autos.ninebean.com/ringers/viewtopic.php?t=39074&start=15
> 
> -MrB


Well Mr. B, do let us know how your personal car fares at the sweet gates of the green hell...


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

Thanks, I will look foward to your report.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

bump,

updates, ADC, did you go?


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Jeff_DML said:


> updates, ADC, did you go?


Oh yeah... 

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212244

It's towards the end of the post (page 2 or 3 maybe?) - if you can ignore some of the incoherent babble, I was riding an alltime high at the moment...


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

nice car, thanks:thumbup:


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

Just found this on youtube: 



.

(Hope this is no repost)


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

My fav top gear is Sabine driving the Ford van.


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## DougC (Aug 18, 2006)

had no problems entering ring last saturday. it was raining, may have helped


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Alfred G said:


> Just found this on youtube:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes Alfred, Sabine is well known to the Nuburgring crowd here. And she's been driving the E60 M5 for a couple years now


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## Hammerwerfer (Aug 8, 2003)

Sabine was driving the 'ring Taxi this past Saturday and Sunday. First time in a long time she has had time to. Her new TV show D Motor on DMAX takes up a lot of her time these days. 

The footage of her "racing" a McMerc SLR against a Marchetti SF 260 should be pretty good. 

I had an interesting week myself. Had two students crash on Thursday, and would have had a third if I hadn't fobbed him off on the other instructor.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Hammerwerfer said:


> Had two students (...)


This makes it sound as if you instruct at the Ring. Would you mind posting some information?

I sure could use some instruction next time around... :thumbup:


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## Hammerwerfer (Aug 8, 2003)

adc said:


> This makes it sound as if you instruct at the Ring. Would you mind posting some information?
> 
> I sure could use some instruction next time around... :thumbup:


What sort of information are you looking for?


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Hammerwerfer said:


> What sort of information are you looking for?


What type of instruction is offered and under what conditions: private days/public days, fees, my car/school's car, insurance/no insurance, big class/one-on-one instruction, schedule (month/days) etc.

I already have (I think) the business card from a gentleman that runs a driving school with older Alfa 175s, but did not have a chance to phone or email him for similar details.

Another option would be to do the BMW Ring school which usually happens at the beginning of each August.

Even though my next ED is probably 2 years away, I am trying to collect more information as to what other Ring schooling options I have, create a budget, tentatively plan the month of the ED, etc.

If for one reason or another you are reluctant to post here, you can always PM me... :thumbup:


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

adc said:


> Another option would be to do the BMW Ring school which usually happens at the beginning of each August.
> 
> Even though my next ED is probably 2 years away, I am trying to collect more


I am currently looking into this for next year:thumbup:


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## Hammerwerfer (Aug 8, 2003)

adc said:


> What type of instruction is offered and under what conditions: private days/public days, fees, my car/school's car, insurance/no insurance, big class/one-on-one instruction, schedule (month/days) etc.
> 
> I already have (I think) the business card from a gentleman that runs a driving school with older Alfa 175s, but did not have a chance to phone or email him for similar details.
> 
> ...


I do a lot of work in the Alfa 75s.

You can take the course in the Alfas during Touristenfahrt, book private instruction in either the Alfas or your own car during Touristenfahrt, or use our services during a closed track day school.

We may have some even more interesting options next year.

The various other options would be the BMW Fahrertraining in the Z4 M Coupes, or the BMW Club run driving school.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Hammerwerfer said:


> You can take the course in the Alfas during Touristenfahrt, book private instruction in either the Alfas or your own car during Touristenfahrt, or use our services during a closed track day school.


Is there a link for more info on your closed track day school, and fees?

Both options are interesting, and one of them should work for me in 2009...



> We may have some even more interesting options next year.


Looking forward to hearing about those too...


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## Hammerwerfer (Aug 8, 2003)

http://www.75experience.co.uk/

Have a look there.


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