# Buying a watch in Germany... tips?



## ss109 (Jul 1, 2006)

During my last ED I looked in a few watch stores, only to be disappointed by the pricing. Granted, I didn't expect to pay half of what I do here, but at least a bit less. Do you guys know of any decent places in the Munich area that offers nice pricing on Swiss watches?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I do my shopping at Wempe.

Hidden benefits include service at no charge from U.S. stores (not a full rebuild but for free battery changes which others charge a lot for, free cleanings, etc.) and they will refund your MWSt. to you directly if asked.


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

ss109 said:


> During my last ED I looked in a few watch stores, only to be disappointed by the pricing. Granted, I didn't expect to pay half of what I do here, but at least a bit less. Do you guys know of any decent places in the Munich area that offers nice pricing on Swiss watches?


You're wasting your money unless you buy your watches on eBay. I just got great deals on 3 Omegas on eBay.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Jspira said:


> I do my shopping at Wempe.
> 
> Hidden benefits include service at no charge from U.S. stores (not a full rebuild but for free battery changes which others charge a lot for, free cleanings, etc.) and they will refund your MWSt. to you directly if asked.


Does Wempe have good prices? Where are they in Munich?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> Does Wempe have good prices? Where are they in Munich?


Good prices are relative. They don't discount but I probably saved about 30% from U.S. prices. Plus their service is impeccable and the New York store is very convenient for that.

One Niederlassung is on the Weinstraße and the other isn´t far from there on the Maximilianstraße.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Jspira said:


> Good prices are relative. They don't discount but I probably saved about 30% from U.S. prices. Plus their service is impeccable and the New York store is very convenient for that.
> 
> One Niederlassung is on the Weinstraße and the other isn´t far from there on the Maximilianstraße.


30% off US prices qualifies as damn good :thumbup: I may have to pay them a visit


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> 30% off US prices qualifies as damn good :thumbup: I may have to pay them a visit


Of course this depends on the timepiece and also exchange rates. Keep in mind, there is a MWSt. increase coming up.

I really like the Wempe staff (they serve coffee or Sekt while you shop btw) and their service. I would pay the same to buy from them.


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

jcatral14 said:


> 30% off US prices qualifies as damn good :thumbup: I may have to pay them a visit


OK OK...when you find them for another 10% off on eBay (and no tax) don't go crying in your coffee.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

MARCUS330i said:


> OK OK...when you find them for another 10% off on eBay (and no tax) don't go crying in your coffee.


Tax in Germany (in the form of MWSt.) is refunded in full by Wempe


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

ss109 said:


> During my last ED I looked in a few watch stores, only to be disappointed by the pricing. Granted, I didn't expect to pay half of what I do here, but at least a bit less. Do you guys know of any decent places in the Munich area that offers nice pricing on Swiss watches?


This store has some of the better deals on eBay:

http://stores.ebay.com/Watchprecision

And I had a very nice transaction with this company recently:
http://stores.ebay.com/Dexclusive

These guys have great prices but Dexclusive was a little nicer to deal with:

http://stores.ebay.com/BestJewelryExpo


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

But watches from ebay are excluded by warranty, no??


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

mason said:


> But watches from ebay are excluded by warranty, no??


That could definitely be the case if the seller is not an authorized retailer. They could be selling grey market goods which the local importer (in the U.S.) won´t support.

Or it could be like BMW, where you might get less of a warranty if you bypassed the authorized importer (BMW NA gives 4 years plus full maintenance, BMW AG worldwide is less and no maintenance)


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Did you consider a Swatch? If you're getting a swatch, I'd recommend just getting it here. My wife and I recently each bought one in Hong Kong, and it was basically just a 5% saving, plus the tax saving - so total about 13% saving. The Windfall is a nice chronograph - http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/07/pf/deals_luxury_0609.moneymag/index.htm


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

mason said:


> But watches from ebay are excluded by warranty, no??


Depends on the vendor. Remember: even fully authorized watch vendors have virtually no overhead selling on the internet. Buying such items from a department store (if you can find them online) is just like going to an ATM machine, withdrawing 300 Euro, and leaving the 300 Euro on the sidewalk. I guess if you want to help finance that pretty department store in Germany more power to you man! 

By the way...what are the odds that a fine Swiss watch will break during it's warranty?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

MARCUS330i said:


> By the way...what are the odds that a fine Swiss watch will break during it's warranty?


probably higher if you don´t have a warranty


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

One thing that you can't get on Ebay: the memories of buying your new watch while on vacation in Europe. And for the uninitiated, buying a watch on Ebay could be a real mess. Many watches have been defaced (no serial #) or don't come with all the packaging. Some aren't even new! The other advantage to Wempe or the like is that they have more than one brand in the store that you can try on. Recently I went to Tourneau to purchase a Rolex but wound up buying an Omega. Not only was the deal better, I like the watch more. I say, go with an idea of what the watch would cost you in the states through a normal channel. If you feel like it's a good deal, buy it and enjoy!:thumbup:


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Jspira said:


> probably higher if you don´t have a warranty


Exponentially higher
-Murphy

Nate, well put.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

*Good advice*



NateXTR said:


> One thing that you can't get on Ebay: the memories of buying your new watch while on vacation in Europe. And for the uninitiated, buying a watch on Ebay could be a real mess. Many watches have been defaced (no serial #) or don't come with all the packaging. Some aren't even new! The other advantage to Wempe or the like is that they have more than one brand in the store that you can try on. Recently I went to Tourneau to purchase a Rolex but wound up buying an Omega. Not only was the deal better, I like the watch more. I say, go with an idea of what the watch would cost you in the states through a normal channel. If you feel like it's a good deal, buy it and enjoy!:thumbup:


This is good advice. Similarly, for our first anniversary, I went to the store to get a Cartier for my wife, which I know she liked, but the Rolex looked better when placed side by side. So I gave her a call and we ended up with the Rolex. If you're getting the watch unseen, make sure you go to a store first to make sure it is the style and size you want.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

NateXTR said:


> One thing that you can't get on Ebay: the memories of buying your new watch while on vacation in Europe. And for the uninitiated, buying a watch on Ebay could be a real mess. Many watches have been defaced (no serial #) or don't come with all the packaging. Some aren't even new! The other advantage to Wempe or the like is that they have more than one brand in the store that you can try on. Recently I went to Tourneau to purchase a Rolex but wound up buying an Omega. Not only was the deal better, I like the watch more. I say, go with an idea of what the watch would cost you in the states through a normal channel. If you feel like it's a good deal, buy it and enjoy!


Excellent advice.

Buying a more expensive watch (everyone´s definition of this might vary, but I would put $3000 as where it starts to be expensive and of course it can go up exponentially) is not like buying a commodity item. Dealing with an expert in a store such as Wempe makes such a purchase easier. I guess an analogy is buying a car in a way. Would you buy a BMW (supposedly new) from an eBay seller who is not an authorized dealer? (Watches can cost more than BMWs btw).

My watch buying experiences at Wempe have been enjoyable and the service backing them up has been exemplary. When I purchased my G-P watch a few years ago, they gave me a second leather band at no charge (I was already saving at least $1500 from U.S. pricess). The band costs ca. $400. They also mailed the empty box and receipt home for me so I would not be burdened with carrying it. :angel:

And they refunded the MWSt. directly, so the Tax Free Shopping company did not take half.


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## beauport (Jul 2, 2002)

Jspira said:


> Excellent advice.
> 
> Buying a more expensive watch (everyone´s definition of this might vary, but I would put $3000 as where it starts to be expensive and of course it can go up exponentially) is not like buying a commodity item. Dealing with an expert in a store such as Wempe makes such a purchase easier. I guess an analogy is buying a car in a way. Would you buy a BMW (supposedly new) from an eBay seller who is not an authorized dealer? (Watches can cost more than BMWs btw).
> 
> ...


Wempe is heads and shoulders above most any jeweler in the US and many of Europe. They provide truly professional service and really know their products. They operate in a manner seldom seen anymore in retail establishments.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

beauport said:


> Wempe is heads and shoulders above most any jeweler in the US and many of Europe. They provide truly professional service and really know their products. They operate in a manner seldom seen anymore in retail establishments.


And they have earned my loyalty for all purchases because of that.


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

Jspira said:


> They also mailed the empty box and receipt home for me so I would not be burdened with carrying it. :angel:


 "Nope, nothing to declare today, thank you..."


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

NateXTR said:


> "Nope, nothing to declare today, thank you..."


Actually, I always list SOMETHING on the declaration. Even last week coming in, I listed $30 of cookies which I had with me so it wasn´t blank.

Gee, I hope I didn´t forget to list something really big once or twice :angel:


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

chrischeung said:


> This is good advice. Similarly, for our first anniversary, I went to the store to get a Cartier for my wife, which I know she liked, but the Rolex looked better when placed side by side. So I gave her a call and we ended up with the Rolex. If you're getting the watch unseen, make sure you go to a store first to make sure it is the style and size you want.


That's really the key to buying online.....if you know exactly what you want and you buy online from a respectable retailer with a high feedback score...you'll be fine. A bricks and mortar store will always be more expensive....especially in Europe.


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## Joe Schmoe (May 1, 2006)

Third the Wempe recommendation. Wempe is a really great store. If the the one in Germany is even cheaper than the one in NYC, that's even better.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Joe Schmoe said:


> Third the Wempe recommendation. Wempe is a really great store. I


Thinking about it, even though Wempe is a better store, it is not at all pretentious.



Joe Schmoe said:


> If the the one in Germany is even cheaper than the one in NYC, that's even better.


Of course as currencies shift...


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

jcatral14 said:


> Does Wempe have good prices? Where are they in Munich?


Just checked inside the Wempe in Stuttgart this afternoon....you can save 30% or more buying Omegas on eBay......they wanted 2700 Euro for Omega Planet Ocean I purchased on eBay for $2250. I didn't price other brands. Considering the Euro costs $1.33 I would suggest you shop wisely in Europe as you will probably be wasting money.

Gluhwein is still a bargain, however. Kinderpunch and grilled sausages too.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

MARCUS330i said:


> Just checked inside the Wempe in Stuttgart this afternoon....you can save 30% or more buying Omegas on eBay......they wanted 2700 Euro for Omega Planet Ocean I purchased on eBay for $2250. I didn't price other brands. Considering the Euro costs $1.33 I would suggest you shop wisely in Europe as you will probably be wasting money.
> 
> Gluhwein is still a bargain, however. Kinderpunch and grilled sausages too.


Caveat emptor
Thanks for the heads up although I'll still check out the one in Munich. It helps if one knows the US price when going in for a comparison. When it comes to expensive watches, I like to see them in person before I fork over the moolah. While ebay will yield watches at enticingly low prices it's a veritable minefield of used, stolen, fake and grey market goods. I'm not comfortable buying something for a lot of money off of ebay. If it's too much $$$ at Wempe then I'll just get it at a local store.

How long you gonna be there? I'm flying into Munich on Thursday :hi:


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

The other thing that I don't think I've seen mentioned here is the number of fakes sold on ebay. I'm very into watches and have, well, quite a bit invested in several of them. There are some really good fakes out there. Definitely buy the buyer and not the watch!


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

No doubt you have to buy from a trusted dealer on eBay....but that's not that difficult.

I'm outta here Tuesday afternoon, jcatral.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

While I won´t disagree that there are some bargains from reputable dealers on eBay when it comes to watches, the service and support behind a watch purchase means a lot. It also depends if you are talking about watches that are €2.000,- or that are €7.000,- or more.

Would the eBay seller throw in an extra €300,- leather strap? Would the eBay seller change the battery for free forever (for a Swiss battery watch, it is not a $10 or $20 battery change)? Will the seller clean and polish it at no charge?

But just like with a BMW, as long as you are happy with it in the end, that really is all that matters.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Jspira said:


> While I won´t disagree that there are some bargains from reputable dealers on eBay when it comes to watches, the service and support behind a watch purchase means a lot. It also depends if you are talking about watches that are €2.000,- or that are €7.000,- or more.


I wholeheartedly agree. Damn good points.

And with the current exchange rates, I am not sure why anyone with a fistful of USD would want to buy a time piece in the EU - even with a partial VAT refund. There have to be less expensive, genuine alternatives in the U.S. and A. for a watch purchase. That is where (US) I have bought my last four watches (Breitling, Breitling, Omega, Breitling).

I am now looking to finally buy a Panerai from the US, simply due to the crazy exchange rate and the cost of the same watch here. I just can't decide on whether it will be with a bracelet or strap ... decisions, decisions.

.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I am now looking to finally buy a Panerai from the US, simply due to the crazy exchange rate and the cost of the same watch here. I just can't decide on whether it will be with a bracelet or strap ... decisions, decisions.
> 
> .


Strap - much more elegant.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Jspira said:


> Strap - much more elegant.


It probably will be a strap. Especially since all of my other watches have bracelets, BUT, the Panerai bracelets and clasps are fabulous, IMHO. And I am not worried about elegance up here in North Eastern Europe - my wife takes care of that when needed. 

If it is a strap, then you also have to think about the color of your shoes, belt and so on ... :bigpimp:

Well, it's all fun!

.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

You are so right, it gets complicated. Where does it end? :angel:


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## vkk (Dec 3, 2006)

I was in Switzerland recently and prices for watches are much higher than buying from a wholesale retailer. I used Markus Tschopp to mail order a swiss watch. He's located in Basel and gives $$$ of high quality watches. He's legit and you get a worldwide warranty and will mail you the watch. A search on him will reveal many satisfied customers.

[email protected]


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

Jspira said:


> Strap - much more elegant.


Agreed! IMO, Panerai is less elegant and more rugged, I'd probably still stick with a strap, but wear it on informal occaisions. You can also get a deployant clasp on a Panerai strap; kind of straddles the fence between the convience of a bracelet and the elegance of a strap. I'd go brown not black BTW.


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

vkk said:


> I was in Switzerland recently and prices for watches are much higher than buying from a wholesale retailer. I used Markus Tschopp to mail order a swiss watch. He's located in Basel and gives $$$ of high quality watches. He's legit and you get a worldwide warranty and will mail you the watch. A search on him will reveal many satisfied customers.
> 
> [email protected]


Only e-mail? Is there a website? I am in the market for a Chopard, do you know if he carries (or can get) them?

Thanks,

Nate


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

NateXTR said:


> Only e-mail? Is there a website? I am in the market for a Chopard, do you know if he carries (or can get) them?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nate


I was about to ask the same thing. I am thinking of an A. Lange und Söhne.


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## vkk (Dec 3, 2006)

NateXTR said:


> Only e-mail? Is there a website? I am in the market for a Chopard, do you know if he carries (or can get) them?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Nate


The website used to be http://www.smwatches.com/en/

However, I looked and it says that Markus sold it to someone else now after many years. I'm sure, given how reputable Markus is, that the site is still a great one. You can contact him directly.

He usually says that he get you pretty much any swiss watch you want. It may take some turnaround time but he'll do it.

I bought mine in September and was talking to him just a month ago about another one.


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

I've had good success at Bucherer in Switzerland (Geneva & Zermatt) and Wempe in Germany (w/ NYC service).

Just another data point.

Personally I would never buy an expensive watch on eBay as I wish for a point of service with good customer service.
Any automatic (or manually wound) watch will need service every 5-6 years and where will you take it if you bought if off eBay?



Jspira said:


> I was about to ask the same thing. I am thinking of an A. Lange und Sohne.


My next watch indeed...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

How many watch winders do you have? Great invention - increases interval between service for automatics and they are always on time.

Re A Lange und Söhne, which do you like?


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Jspira said:


> How many watch winders do you have? Great invention - increases interval between service for automatics and they are always on time.
> 
> Re A Lange und Söhne, which do you like?


I have an Orbita single watch winder. A Lange und Sohne is a very nice watch indeed although I have my sights set on an IWC Portuguese


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> I have an Orbita single watch winder. A Lange und Sohne is a very nice watch indeed although I have my sights set on an IWC Portuguese


I like IWC - I have several including two IWC pocket watches.


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

vkk said:


> The website used to be http://www.smwatches.com/en/
> 
> However, I looked and it says that Markus sold it to someone else now after many years. I'm sure, given how reputable Markus is, that the site is still a great one. You can contact him directly.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I'll drop him a line.


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

I love the Lange 1 Mondphase and Lange 1 Zeitzone. Blew me away when I saw them.

I saw them both at some jewlery store in NYC. However, at 17k to 27k depending on the version and type of gold choosen, I believe I will stick to my $50 Swiss Army Watch.


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

Pedal2Floor said:


> I I believe I will stick to my $50 Swiss Army Watch.


This from the guy with the $150+ per bottle avatar!:rofl:


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

NateXTR said:


> This from the guy with the $150+ per bottle avatar!:rofl:


Ok, I will bite. I don't want to take away the original intent of this thread so I will keep it short and if you want to flame me you can use PM.

I could have a Lotus or Ferrari avatar and would not have made a difference -- I like those avatars too. That Langs are beautiful watchs but more than what I would pay for a watch. My hobby is wine others like watch collecting -- I fail to see the humor. Just because I like Opus One does not mean I have a few hundred bottle sitting in my wine cellar.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

Jspira said:


> While I won´t disagree that there are some bargains from reputable dealers on eBay when it comes to watches, the service and support behind a watch purchase means a lot. It also depends if you are talking about watches that are €2.000,- or that are €7.000,- or more.
> 
> Would the eBay seller throw in an extra €300,- leather strap? Would the eBay seller change the battery for free forever (for a Swiss battery watch, it is not a $10 or $20 battery change)? Will the seller clean and polish it at no charge?
> 
> But just like with a BMW, as long as you are happy with it in the end, that really is all that matters.


I agree. Service is very important. I had a friend bought a mount blanc pen on eBay, brought it back to mount blanc for service and got rejected due to the purchase from an unauthorized dealer.

By the way, the new Breguet Marine Chrono looks stunning. I am very tempted.


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

Pedal2Floor said:


> Ok, I will bite. I don't want to take away the original intent of this thread so I will keep it short and if you want to flame me you can use PM.
> 
> I could have a Lotus or Ferrari avatar and would not have made a difference -- I like those avatars too. That Langs are beautiful watchs but more than what I would pay for a watch. My hobby is wine others like watch collecting -- I fail to see the humor. Just because I like Opus One does not mean I have a few hundred bottle sitting in my wine cellar.


Please believe me when I say that I intended no offense! I agree with you that everybody should have their own passion! Wine, watches, cars whatever. More than anything, I was implying that you obviously appreciate quality (you own a BMW and like Opus 1), so it was curious that you view fine watches with disdain. A Lange, represents a very elite, very expensive luxury watch brand. Think of it as a "cult watch" sort of like "Screaming Eagle" is a cult wine. You can enjoy nice wine without ever spending that kind of money. Again, I never meant to offend you! Please accept my apologies!


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## am_ver (Jul 12, 2005)

I was considering buying a Rolex during my ED primarily to save on the tax benifits (upto $700) and I didn't want to buy a watch this expensive online. However, with the Euro Dollar conversion paying so negatively to our favor, I doubted if I would end up saving anything with the purchase made in Euro's. Instead I bought mine from the jewellary street in NY (46th Ave??); the list price was $8750 (Oyster Perpetual Turn-O-Graph with dual tone jubilee braclet) - got a nice discount and didn't have to pay the sales tax (the merchant fedex'ed it to my home addr in CA instead of handing it over to me - making it similar to an online purchase). The watch was priced at aorund 7000 euro's in Germany ($9100)


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## Bombay Jay (Mar 20, 2006)

*Bay Area Watches*

I thought about getting a watch during my last ED. I did not and when I got back I actually got a good deal at Topper Jewelers in Burlingame, CA. I believe I dealt with a girl named Andrea.


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

NateXTR said:


> Please believe me when I say that I intended no offense! I agree with you that everybody should have their own passion! Wine, watches, cars whatever. More than anything, I was implying that you obviously appreciate quality (you own a BMW and like Opus 1), so it was curious that you view fine watches with disdain. A Lange, represents a very elite, very expensive luxury watch brand. Think of it as a "cult watch" sort of like "Screaming Eagle" is a cult wine. You can enjoy nice wine without ever spending that kind of money. Again, I never meant to offend you! Please accept my apologies!


NateXTR -- Apology accepted :thumbup:

Not a problem! I don't have a disdain for watches, I just never learned to apprieciate them in the way that many collectors have.


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