# Why I won't be coming back to BMW



## mute (Jan 16, 2008)

BMW of Riverside has killed the entire brand for me. 
http://bmwofriverside.wordpress.com/

Take care guys, loved the forum. Got a Honda Fit of all cars and I love the little thing.


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## Kilgore Trout (Dec 25, 2008)

Enjoy your new Fit (I love Honda products, btw).

I am sorry that you had a bad experience, but I have nothing but nice things to say about my sales experience at Pacific BMW in Glendale, CA and my service experiences at North Hollywood BMW dealer (Century West). My only point being that the BMW buying and maintenance experience here in SoCal is not usually as negative as yours has been.


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

Unfortunately, Nothing is Perfect!
We live, we learn, we overcome. May I congratulations on your new baby!?


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## FRANCOSTEIN (Jun 19, 2010)

Sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. I bought my CPO 07' 335i at that dealership in 2009 and although my experience was not as bad as yours, some of your frustrations were familiar to me. My car has only been to their service department and like you mentioned in your blog, that staff is excellent... enjoy the Fit and congrats on the newborn.


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## petriej (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't get it. Looks like you had a couple problems with a CPO.

I guess it was compounded by the other stresses in your life? Kind of harsh to blame the entire brand for all of that. Probably would have prevented everything if you had purchased a 328i instead.

Either way, enjoy hypermile'ing your Fit. I'm sure you'll be laughing at all of us when gas tops $5/gal.

Cheers.


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## Tangent (Jan 18, 2004)

BMW of Riverside actually gave me the best used car buying experience I've ever had a few years ago. We bought my wife's Saturn Vue there and not only did they beat our offer (by mistake I think, but still...) but we were in and out in less than an hour. They even mailed us an item we forgot in our trade-in. It's a shame they seem to have forgotten how to treat customers.


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## 169959 (Oct 10, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. But I don't understand blaming the entire brand just because that one particular dealership gave you a bad experience.


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## Bcube (Apr 12, 2007)

I bought my first and last BMW at Riverside in 2005. I have been with Savage BMW in Ontario since early 2007 and never looked back. There was a reason why Savage was granted the MINI franchise for the Inland Empire.


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Their awesome service department?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49291

OP, great story, glad you got it out there. So sad you had to go thru it however. "Grats on the new bambino and your new whip.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

mute said:


> BMW of Riverside has killed the entire brand for me.
> http://bmwofriverside.wordpress.com/
> 
> Take care guys, loved the forum. Got a Honda Fit of all cars and I love the little thing.


Sorrry for your loss.


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## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

Sorry for your troubles, but those Fits are slick little cars. 


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## mute (Jan 16, 2008)

bimmerfan3 said:


> Sorry to hear about your bad experience. But I don't understand blaming the entire brand just because that one particular dealership gave you a bad experience.


Well to be honest I look at it like this myself...if I see a child misbehave, it's not the child I cast my eye on, it's the parent.

Likewise, if BMW of NA is so loose on their standards as to allow BMW of Riverside to operate how it operates, it makes me question BMW as a whole. And given their overall handling of the twin turbo HPFP issue it was just a reality check for me. BMW was not the experience I had built it up to be.

You can say my expectations were too high, but not by the standard of their marketing campaigns, I was expecting exactly what I was promised through their racing heritage, TV ads, billboards, magazine ads, etc. I feel that superior customer service is not something we should reminiscence about as that which has faded with the passage of time, but something which auto-makers like BMW need to set the example on.

Unfortunately for me and my wife they fell short overall on quality and customer service. As such they lost a customer to another brand (lower level at that) which met my immediate needs. It would hold true for anything, grocery store, shoe brand, watch maker, etc...

I appreciate the positive feedback. I envy those of you who have had the experience I wish I had.


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## petriej (Jul 29, 2010)

mute said:


> Well to be honest I look at it like this myself...if I see a child misbehave, it's not the child I cast my eye on, it's the parent.
> 
> Likewise, if BMW of NA is so loose on their standards as to allow BMW of Riverside to operate how it operates, it makes me question BMW as a whole. And given their overall handling of the twin turbo HPFP issue it was just a reality check for me. BMW was not the experience I had built it up to be.
> 
> ...


Perhaps BMW NA does not know about this. I bet they'd love to hear about it. To use your analogy, not all parents know what their kids are up to once they're attending college and beyond.

The BMW dealerships are owned as franchises. That's one of the reasons the dealers compete with each other and can have vast differences between them. Up here in NorCal, AutoWest operates 3 BMW dealerships in the area (Mountain View, Fremont, Roseville), but there are other options. Steven's Creek BMW (San Jose) Peter Pan BMW (San Mateo) and BMW of SF, to name a few.

My point is, I thought it was a bit harsh to toss out the entire brand because of a bad experience with one dealer. I do understand, however, how frustrated you were. I felt the same way about tequila. I had a bad (and I mean bad) experience with Jose gold and couldn't drink tequila of any kind for years. As for the HPFP, from what I've read it seems like a very complicated issue, with some blame on the fuel we use here in North America. All part of the engineering team's spec's, I say, but what do I know?

Again, have fun with the Fit (I hear it is GO)

Cheers.


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## STIHLBOLTS (Feb 17, 2008)

Best of luck to you.

Best regards


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## Tangent (Jan 18, 2004)

mute said:


> Well to be honest I look at it like this myself...if I see a child misbehave, it's not the child I cast my eye on, it's the parent.
> 
> Likewise, if BMW of NA is so loose on their standards as to allow BMW of Riverside to operate how it operates, it makes me question BMW as a whole. ...


If it makes you feel any better, the Honda dealership next to BMW of Riverside used to be far worse. They had employees "voluntarily" (you, know, the do it or be fired kind of voluntarily) donate 10% of their pay to "help the dealership through hard times". In the mean time they opened a couple of Harley clone shops and then built a shiny new actual Harley dealership.

They had such poor customer ratings that Mitsubishi finally refused to renew their dealership license. Honda didn't care and they continued to sell Honda, Kia, Subaru, and a few other brands I can't remember offhand. The entire place finally was bought out several years after I was out of there when the owners decided they were bored with screwing those employees for their own benefit and wanted to concentrate on the Harleys.

Odds are excellent that for every automotive brand that exists, you'll find a dealership that makes a habit of angering customers. One person's top-notch dealership will be another's nightmare. This thread has a great example. Bcube loves Savage, but as jvr826 linked to, they aren't strangers to screwing customers pretty badly either.


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## Judy G (Jan 27, 2011)

Riverside BMW service is not good, and they are the closest to my house. My son's 238i had a bad fuel pump. Not only did it take them 2 visits to diagnose the problem (He had two incidents where the car would not start) they didn't install it correctly. The car died on him in the middle of the road in the dark. He had to wait over an hour for a tow. Then when he got it back it smelled like gas. the still didn't connect something correctly. 
FAIL!!

We get a clicking sound from the car when it is cold. I left the car overnight and they claimed they didn't hear anything. I really don't want to take my F10 there for service.


We (my family) have bought 5 BMW's now. None of them from the Riverside dealer who is about 3 miles from the house.


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

It never stops amazing me, how people can purchase a product that has such a poor reputation for reliability, and then be upset when in fact their product proves unreliable. As if you were exempt from the rule. You consider a recall to be "insulting" yet you purchased your next vehicle the Honda Fit, which has been recalled for catching on fire too often. You claim that you were "not a sale" but you were someone special who the company needed to bend over backwards for. Who do you think you are? You are one person, who purchased a vehicle that is WELL KNOWN for mechanical problems, who indeed had some mechanical problems. How does that make you special? You claim the dealer told you it wasn't going to have the HPFP problem. No reasonable person could ever tell you that for a fact, and you know that. Of course the dealer is going to boast his car as free of defects, your job as a consumer is to know what you are getting into. Your description of the General Sales Manager is laughable. The poor guy has to deal with whiny pretentious customers all day, and here you are asking him to write you a PETTY check for something he isn't responsible for. No, he doesn't care if you return. The Cons of customers like you far outweigh the Pros. 

Please, do youself and everyone else a favor. Lower your expectations to a reasonable level. :tsk:


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## PlzDuntBanMe (Mar 18, 2011)

Well, I hope you come back to BMW to say the least! 

Just be happy man and live life!


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## Bremen Ben (Sep 1, 2008)

So the OP draws the conclusion of "never recommending a BMW to anyone" from the $hitty experience with one dealership?:tsk:


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## mute (Jan 16, 2008)

judyg951 said:


> Riverside BMW service is not good, and they are the closest to my house. My son's 238i had a bad fuel pump. Not only did it take them 2 visits to diagnose the problem (He had two incidents where the car would not start) they didn't install it correctly. The car died on him in the middle of the road in the dark. He had to wait over an hour for a tow. Then when he got it back it smelled like gas. the still didn't connect something correctly.
> FAIL!!
> 
> We get a clicking sound from the car when it is cold. I left the car overnight and they claimed they didn't hear anything. I really don't want to take my F10 there for service.
> ...


That totally sucks. I feel you though, it's like when my transmission was going out on my wagon and I informed the service writer at Irvine BMW that something felt off with my transmission, weird engaging, noise, jumpy starts. They kept the car overnight informed me that they found an ignition wire which was shorting out against the engine(???) and fixed the issue. I asked them what that had to do with the transmission and they replied that nothing was found on the visual inspection and driving. I said "but I told you there was an issue" to which he said it wasn't like they could open up every car a customer had an "issue" with. I said ok, car was under warranty, what was it to me. It was spending the rest of that day parked off the side of the 133 with a fat line of fluid on the highway behind me leading up to my car. The transmission had amazingly 
failed just minutes after leaving the service department and heading back to Riverside.

After never hearing from upper management following my walk-away I was recently contacted by my favorite employee at BMW of Riverside, John Horgan thanking me for my statements and informing me that the GM I had referred to in my blog was actually the "Sales GM". I made the correction following that call. He also informed me that Tom Naso from BMW of Riverside would be contacting me shortly (he posted an apologetic comment on my blog about how they hope to win my business in the future).

Ultimately it's not that one dealership or one car got the better of me. It's a combination of various issues which culminated in a complete loss of faith in a brand. Take it for what you will, like I said, I envy those of you who have had the experience I wish I had and I stand by that statement.

For the rest of you who know where I am coming from or have had a similar customer service experiences, I hope you will learn from my example and let your issues be known to others. Use the tools available to you (social networking, Wordpress, Blogger, Facebook, Twitter, Yelp, etc...) it will help the companies/corporations in question improve their service and raise their standards *so you don't have to lower yours*.


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## chrisk03 (Jun 30, 2010)

mute - sorry to hear about your experience and glad you worked things out (somewhat). I'm a big Honda fan, so congrats on the Fit! I traded in my Si last year for a new 335i. Luckily, I had a better experience than you, although not "truly exceptional" which is what BMW asks you on their post purchase survey...hence hurting the salesperson/dealer. So far the car has been great (fingers crossed on the hpfp) and the dealer service has been great too (good to know the Srvc Mgr via a relative). Forget the naysayers, and I also EXPECT more from a higher end car manufacturer/dealer...they specifically market themselves as such; ultimate car, exceptional experience. No, I don't think I'm special, nor does it sound like mute thinks so either. He was offered and/or promised certain things multiple times and they didn't deliver and made it out to be his fault (save for John).

Oh well, best of luck, the Fits a great little car. Perhaps, time will heal and you'll give BMW another shot in the future.


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## mcmcallister (Mar 11, 2011)

sorry to hear about the situation, but congrats on the new baby. I couldnt imagine having a terrible experience  , but if i was in a really bad situation and i had one, i would probably let them repo a "stripped for parts frame" sitting on the side of the curb. remember to keep your sense of humor in troubled times, and nothing is funnier than watching a tow truck driver hook up to a shell.


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## Judy G (Jan 27, 2011)

It's too bad that your experience at the dealer left such a bad impression on you that you gave up on the brand. Good luck with your Honda. We always had good luck with ours. Oh and congratulations on the new baby. Mine are all grown now but it was fun watching them grow up.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Sorry to read your story. I've had a few BMWs - see my signature - and my 2007 335i was a nightmare with over 30+ days in service in 2009. The servicing dealership was fantastic though and made every effort to repair the car. Simply put, my car was a lemon. BMW bought it back from me and at no point did anyone mention any kind of purchase of another BMW. I walked away from the brand - my wife suggesting I needed to get something marginally reliable for a few years. I'll probably return to BMW one day (or Mini) as I really do miss driving a fun car. 

Bummer about your experience.


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## gtxragtop (Feb 25, 2008)

I find it surprising that anybody would purchase a x35 based vehicle built by BMW. Team BMW really F'd up on this design.


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## Carraway (Sep 16, 2010)

blueguydotcom said:


> Sorry to read your story. I've had a few BMWs - see my signature - and my 2007 335i was a nightmare with over 30+ days in service in 2009. The servicing dealership was fantastic though and made every effort to repair the car. Simply put, my car was a lemon. BMW bought it back from me and at no point did anyone mention any kind of purchase of another BMW. I walked away from the brand - my wife suggesting I needed to get something marginally reliable for a few years. I'll probably return to BMW one day (or Mini) as I really do miss driving a fun car.
> 
> Bummer about your experience.


This is off topic, but I saw the Mazda 3 in your profile. I take it that you don't think it's a "mini BMW 3-Series" or "what you get when you don't get a BMW?" I've seen both descriptions in reviews. I test drove one once, but it was quite a while ago--well before I'd driven a BMW--and traffic on the only road with curves was against me. From what I could tell, though, the car was fairly impressive and fun. (But the 328i test drive was epiphanal.)

--------------
Edit - As for the OP, sorry about your luck. I think nearly every manufacturer has dealers that they would be better without. That's why many people seemed to love the Saturn idea, and possibly why it almost seemed sabotaged by GM after it took off. At any rate, there are three BMW dealers in my area, and one is part of a network that is notorious for its manipulative tactics and poor treatment of people. This same group owns nearly all the Subaru dealers in my area--with the exception of one very small dealer--as well as several other brands.

Similarly, I once strolled into the closest Honda dealer and got annoyed that I could not get a straight answer on the price of a car (I just wanted the final, off the lot selling price). I also considered a used Infiniti but realized that, for service, the only dealer within an hour's drive was part of the same company. (I also noticed that people for this company like posting five star reviews on consumer sites. They won't even change their user names when they rave about the service buying an Infiniti, a Honda and an Audi, all on the same day.) So, I guess my point is that bad dealers aren't exclusive to BMW.

On the other side, I don't think I'd do well as a car salesman, and I really don't think I'd do well as a BMW salesman. While the stereotype of a BMW owner is ridiculous, there are nevertheless people who fit it, and their sense of entitlement and general expectations would not mix well with me. For instance, there was a post by someone here looking to file suit as he didn't think the rear sonar beeped, so he backed into another car. I'm still hoping to find out that was a joke.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Carraway said:


> This is off topic, but I saw the Mazda 3 in your profile. I take it that you don't think it's a "mini BMW 3-Series" or "what you get when you don't get a BMW?" I've seen both descriptions in reviews. I test drove one once, but it was quite a while ago--well before I'd driven a BMW--and traffic on the only road with curves was against me. From what I could tell, though, the car was fairly impressive and fun. (But the 328i test drive was epiphanal.)


Handling is rock solid on the Mazda3. Everything else about it just doesn't feel as engaging. I also had a 2003 Protege ES and that car had a higher quality interior and a much better/efficient engine/tranny combo. I'd get that car sideways on some corners and still pull 30 MPGs with it easy. Really such a nice little car.


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## Carraway (Sep 16, 2010)

blueguydotcom said:


> Handling is rock solid on the Mazda3. Everything else about it just doesn't feel as engaging. I also had a 2003 Protege ES and that car had a higher quality interior and a much better/efficient engine/tranny combo. I'd get that car sideways on some corners and still pull 30 MPGs with it easy. Really such a nice little car.


Thanks. I had a Protege for a week. I needed an automatic while recovering from a broken leg, found one at thought it should be fun, even with the auto transmission. And it was for a bit, but the transmission turned out to be bad, so the dealer offered to buy it back.


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

All my recent BMWs have had zero problems except the '08 135i.


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## N62B44 SGM (Jan 13, 2011)

Sucks about your experience! But don't forget, dealerships are independently owned & operated also. There is only so much BMW NA can do about whatever poor management is going on at Riverside or at many other dealerships to begin with.

No need to bash the whole brand. I know that's your first reaction as it would be. For example, if you had a bad experience with a blonde...your image of all blondes might be negative. Just remember there's plenty more BMW dealerships (and blondes lol) with better service & higher quality management.


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## thumper_330 (Jan 3, 2009)

N62B44 SGM said:


> Sucks about your experience! But don't forget, dealerships are independently owned & operated also. There is only so much BMW NA can do about whatever poor management is going on at Riverside or at many other dealerships to begin with.
> 
> No need to bash the whole brand. I know that's your first reaction as it would be. For example, if you had a bad experience with a blonde...your image of all blondes might be negative. Just remember there's plenty more BMW dealerships (and blondes lol) with better service & higher quality management.


+1.

After my buying experience last year, I am pursuing legal action against a BMW dealer for extremely shady business practices. And theft. And tort... well, it's a long story. Still, I went out and got another Bimmer (my 545i) and am driving that until this whole situation is resolved and I am probably going to go right out and buy another Bimmer. Well, maybe an Audi, but that's going to be a choice I'll make at the time 

Seriously, I think a lot of BMW dealers have a really bad attitude but there's no need to tarnish the entire brand because of them. There are still plenty of good dealers out there.


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## N62B44 SGM (Jan 13, 2011)

thumper_330 said:


> +1.
> 
> After my buying experience last year, I am pursuing legal action against a BMW dealer for extremely shady business practices. And theft. And tort... well, it's a long story. Still, I went out and got another Bimmer (my 545i) and am driving that until this whole situation is resolved and I am probably going to go right out and buy another Bimmer. Well, maybe an Audi, but that's going to be a choice I'll make at the time
> 
> Seriously, I think a lot of BMW dealers have a really bad attitude but there's no need to tarnish the entire brand because of them. There are still plenty of good dealers out there.


And maybe if you have a bad experience with an Audi dealer, you'll hate the brand & every single one after that? Until you run out of brands...lol


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## SchwartzBlack (Jan 4, 2002)

I'll put it this way - I buy a BMW in spite of the dealer. It pains me to give my money to a CA who doesn't know about his product, doesn't mention a word during a test drive, has no idea how to calculate a lease, etc. The sales folks at the Lexus, Infiniti, and even MB dealers were way better. But.... these Bimmers are just so much fun to drive. I'd prefer if BMW just sold them online with a configurator and shipped them to your doorstep so I wouldn't have to set foot in a dealership.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Carraway said:


> This is off topic, but I saw the Mazda 3 in your profile. I take it that you don't think it's a "mini BMW 3-Series" or "what you get when you don't get a BMW?" I've seen both descriptions in reviews. I test drove one once, but it was quite a while ago--well before I'd driven a BMW--and traffic on the only road with curves was against me. From what I could tell, though, the car was fairly impressive and fun. (But the 328i test drive was epiphanal.)
> 
> OT
> Obviously it isn't a BMW but my '06 Mazda 3 is a heck of lot of fun to drive. It has a pretty feisty 2.3L and offers a lot of handling/performance value for the money (same chassis as the Volvo S40 and Euro Ford Focus). I have had zero issues in 5 years. I was between it and a Mini. The Mini was just not practical at my life stage.
> ...


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## Bruce128iC (Feb 16, 2003)

I turned in my leased 2008 335i coupe this morning and it will be my last BMW for quite some time. It was my 4th BMW in a row and by far, the worst of the lot. I hated the crappy auto transmission and how it did not deal well with the turbo engine, the turbo lag in that engine was terrible, the run flat tires sucked and were very expensive to replace, the HVAC system sucked, the seatbelt valet gimmick thing sucked.....as you can tell I hated the car. And it was very expensive on top of all that. BMWs are WAY overrated and overpriced today, IMO.

I wish I had bought my 2003 330 cic when then lease was up...not THAT car was a true BMW through and through. 

If BMW ever goes back to regular tires, light cars, and non turbo engines or at least a turbo engine that works well with the trannie at regular street driving speeds, I may be back. For now, I'm loving the 2011 GTI I bought....so light and tossable and FUN!! :thumbup:


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## ross1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Get over it , enjoy your Fit, you are well suited.


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## ross1 (Jun 27, 2007)

Just recieved this PM from the OP;


mute said:


> For every comment, however nice, rude or spiteful, the thread goes back up to the top. Cheers for the bump! If it stays at the top long enough it may help others decide on another choice.
> 
> God Bless,
> 
> Just Ali


 No need to thank me again


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## AnonCA (Oct 26, 2010)

RE:"it may help others decide on another choice" If their choice is a Fit over a BMW, who exactly is the loser? It's called thinning the herd.


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## N62B44 SGM (Jan 13, 2011)

Even then all I see is a choice between Riverside BMW or somewhere else, not the brand.


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## Killjoy (May 13, 2009)

dannyc9997 said:


> It never stops amazing me, how people can purchase a product that has such a poor reputation for reliability, and then be upset when in fact their product proves unreliable. As if you were exempt from the rule. You consider a recall to be "insulting" yet you purchased your next vehicle the Honda Fit, which has been recalled for catching on fire too often. You claim that you were "not a sale" but you were someone special who the company needed to bend over backwards for. Who do you think you are? You are one person, who purchased a vehicle that is WELL KNOWN for mechanical problems, who indeed had some mechanical problems. How does that make you special? You claim the dealer told you it wasn't going to have the HPFP problem. No reasonable person could ever tell you that for a fact, and you know that. Of course the dealer is going to boast his car as free of defects, your job as a consumer is to know what you are getting into. Your description of the General Sales Manager is laughable. The poor guy has to deal with whiny pretentious customers all day, and here you are asking him to write you a PETTY check for something he isn't responsible for. No, he doesn't care if you return. The Cons of customers like you far outweigh the Pros.
> 
> Please, do youself and everyone else a favor. Lower your expectations to a reasonable level. :tsk:


His expectations do not seem to be unreasonable. But your argument seems to be.


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