# Formula 1 2006 season****SPOILER****



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

I hope nobody minds, but I thought it might be helpful to have a spoiler for the entire season rather than start one for each race. It seemed last year that a lot of the responses crossed over from one race to the next, so this seems more practical and efficient. F1 fans will just have to remember that a generalized spoiler thread exists...and shame on those who don't. Here's to a great season, no matter who or what team you favor:grouphug:


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

Can we start an official "Max is a Turd 2006" thread?


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Test_Engineer said:


> Can we start an official "Max is a Turd 2006" thread?


There's nothing unique about years insofar as Max's being a turd. Always has been, always will be. But we can certainly keep the turd thread going.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

berford said:


> no matter ... what team you favor:grouphug:


Even if it's Ferrari? :eeps:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


> Even if it's Ferrari? :eeps:


:bustingup :rofl:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

PlanetF1 provides a warning for other drivers:

*"Two Satos on the track in 2006?*
Tuesday March 07 2006



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********>*Bad news for Super Aguri's repair bill: they look set to have not one crashaholic, but two, on the payroll this season as Yuji Ide plans to "imitate" his team-mate Takuma Sato. *

Ide, who'll make his F1 debut at this weekend's Bahrain Grand Prix with the new Super Aguri outfit, has minimal F1 experience behind him and is therefore looking for a mentor to guide him.

And rather surprisingly - and perhaps erroneously - he's chosen his team-mate Takuma Sato to fill that role.

Yes, the same Takuma Sato who has one podium finish in 51 race starts, amassed a whole one point in 2005 and is more well known for his accidents than his brilliance.

"I like the way Takuma races in the grands prix, so I'll try to imitate him," Ide rather worryingly told the Gazetta dello Sport newspaper."

*Serious contenders beware.* (I said that.)


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

berford said:


> PlanetF1 provides a warning for other drivers:
> 
> *"Two Satos on the track in 2006?*
> Tuesday March 07 2006
> ...


Sounds like most of the field in a NASTARD race.


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Oh man, that's scary AND hilarious. Watch out for JPM on your six! :eeps:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> Oh man, that's scary AND hilarious. Watch out for JPM on your six! :eeps:


Presume you mean my sig. [Took me a while to figure that out.] I still think Monty got a bad rap last year...but Sato's rap is deservedly bad.


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

We'll get our first good look(in this country anyway) at the new cars/teams tomorrow,Practice on Speedchannel @ 0600 EST.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Clarke said:


> We'll get our first good look(in this country anyway) at the new cars/teams tomorrow,Practice on Speedchannel @ 0600 EST.


Can't freakin' wait! 

I'll be getting up a bit earlier tomorrow!!


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

About the only thing noteworthy about Friday practice was:

Kimi had engine or gearbox problems, depending on who's doing the reporting
JPM may need a new engine (also)
Sauber BMW [sic](according to Formula1.com) wasn't in the mix particularly
the Marlboro cars were quicker than most
questions arise regarding the V10 restrictions, since Toro Rosso did well with one
Tomorrow will be more telling, of course. We'll see how the new qualifying format works out.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

SECOND PRACTICE

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Davidson Honda (M) 1:31.353 28
2. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:31.751 + 0.398 15
3. Wurz Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:31.764 + 0.411 27
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:32.175 + 0.822 13
5. Alonso Renault (M) 1:32.538 + 1.185 13
6. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) 1:32.703 + 1.350 24
7. Doornbos Red Bull-Ferrari (M) 1:32.926 + 1.573 24
8. Fisichella Renault (M) 1:33.215 + 1.862 14
9. Button Honda (M) 1:33.226 + 1.873 12
10. Kubica BMW-Sauber (M) 1:33.244 + 1.891 26
11. Klien Red Bull-Ferrari (M) 1:33.557 + 2.204 8
12. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:33.577 + 2.224 11
13. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:33.726 + 2.373 15
14. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (M) 1:33.848 + 2.495 9
15. Jani Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) 1:33.900 + 2.547 24
16. Speed Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) 1:34.284 + 2.931 22
17. Webber Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:34.333 + 2.980 5
18. Barrichello Honda (M) 1:34.384 +  3.031 9
19. Coulthard Red Bull-Ferrari (M) 1:34.432 + 3.079 7
20. Monteiro MF1-Toyota (B) 1:34.459 + 3.106 14
21. Rosberg Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:34.953 + 3.600 5
22. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:35.170 + 3.817 18
23. Winkelhock MF1-Toyota (B) 1:35.686 + 4.333 24
24. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 1:35.898 + 4.545 11
25. Villeneuve BMW-Sauber (M) 1:36.264 + 4.911 8
26. Albers MF1-Toyota (B) 1:36.314 + 4.961 16
27. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:37.588 + 6.235 19
28. Ide Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:39.021 + 7.668 21

FIRST PRACTICE

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Kubica BMW-Sauber (M) 1:32.170 20 
2. Wurz Williams-Cosworth (B) 1:32.184 + 0.014 18 
3. Raikkonen McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:33.388 + 1.218 6 
4. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:33.469 + 1.299 5 
5. Klien Red Bull-Ferrari (M) 1:34.800 + 2.630 6 
6. Jani Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) 1:34.831 + 2.661 15 
7. Montoya McLaren-Mercedes (M) 1:34.887 + 2.717 6 
8. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:34.925 + 2.755 6 
9. Coulthard Red Bull-Ferrari (M) 1:35.017 + 2.847 4 
10. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) 1:35.083 + 2.913 8 
11. Doornbos Red Bull-Ferrar (M) 1:35.203 + 3.033 15 
12. Speed Toro Rosso-Cosworth (M) 1:35.371 + 3.201 7 
13. Monteiro MF1-Toyota (B) 1:36.542 + 4.372 9 
14. Albers MF1-Toyota (B) 1:36.930 + 4.760 9 
15. Winkelhock MF1-Toyota (B) 1:37.918 + 5.748 16 
16. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:38.190 + 6.020 15 
17. Ide Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:40.782 + 8.612 15 
18. Davidson Honda (M) No Time 2 
19. Alonso Renault (M) No Time 2 
20. Fisichella Renault (M) No Time 2 
21. R.Schumacher Toyota (B) No Time 2 
22. Trulli Toyota (B) No Time 1 
23. Webber Williams-Cosworth (B) No Time 1 
24. Rosberg Williams-Cosworth (B) No Time 1 
25. Barrichello Honda (M) No Time 
26. Button Honda (M) No Time 
27. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (M) No Time 
28. Villeneuve BMW-Sauber (M) No Time


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Good grief. :tsk: 

WTF is wrong with McLaren?

Kimi's drive shaft breaks, wheel flies into the rear wing and that is it. P22 for the race.

:thumbdwn: 


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

At least this new qualifying system is interesting. The traffic in the pit lane before the re-start was pretty funny!

People might actually be watching this.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

oh no.  

Here we go again ...


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

I'm not sure I like the "race fuel" restriction for the last session. It looks like the Ferrari's are perhaps light on fuel but you can't really tell. I'd much rather see it be a light fuel load *real* shootout so we can see who is really quickest.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

WILLIA///M said:


> I'm not sure I like the "race fuel" restriction for the last session. It looks like the Ferrari's are perhaps light on fuel but you can't really tell. I'd much rather see it be a light fuel load *real* shootout so we can see who is really quickest.


:stupid:

Also, I had a feeling I have not experienced for some time: The urge to slap the smug smile off Schumi's face. 

Hopefully someone else will take care of that for me during the race. :thumbup:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Also, I had a feeling I have not experienced for some time: The urge to slap the smug smile off Schumi's face.


I always have that feeling. 

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I don't like the sound of the V8 engine coming from the in-car camera. The Torro Rosso V10 - even restricted - sounds much better IMHO.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Patrick said:


> oh no.
> 
> Here we go again ...
> 
> .


What is Alex saying in Istanbul?

Alex?:dunno:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

How many laps until the FIATs come into the pits?

The speculation here is that they had rather low fuel loads by the end of session 3 yesterday.

Also, I heard that 1 lap of the circuit requires 2.5kg of fuel, and that a car with 10kg difference in fuel loads = 0.4 seconds faster lap times. Does that make any sense? :dunno: 


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

Well thats not to good for Bimmers.....Boom,crackle crackle


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

Will the Ferrari Mirrors become widely copied? Why do the Renault mirrors always seem about to fall off?


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

Good genes in Nico,I remember how much I liked watching his dad race.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Clarke said:


> Will the Ferrari Mirrors become widely copied? Why do the Renault mirrors always seem about to fall off?


The left mirror especially on both Renaults looked like they would fly off!

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Clarke said:


> Good genes in Nico,I remember how much I liked watching his dad race.


After Kimi's drive from last to 3rd, I have to say that the drive of the race belongs to Nico. Simply amazing for a rookie in his forst Formula 1 race. :thumbup:

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> After Kimi's drive from last to 3rd, I have to say that the drive of the race belongs to Nico. Simply amazing for a rookie in his forst Formula 1 race. :thumbup:
> 
> .


Good for Kimi...clearly the best performance of the day. Did anyone see Sir Frank's reaction when JV blew up? That would be interesting.


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## brave1heart (Jan 7, 2002)

Patrick said:


> After Kimi's drive from last to 3rd, I have to say that the drive of the race belongs to Nico. Simply amazing for a rookie in his forst Formula 1 race. :thumbup:
> 
> .


Rosebrg was amazing! He will probably be a champ in a few years. I think he put together the fastest lap of the race today. Very impressed with the Cosworth engines too + they sound awesome at 20K RPMs :thumbup:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> After Kimi's drive from last to 3rd, I have to say that the drive of the race belongs to Nico. Simply amazing for a rookie in his forst Formula 1 race. :thumbup:
> .


:stupid:

Amazing for a rookie and astounding considering he had a stop where they pulled it into the garage and then put him back out. :yikes:

Again it looks like Kimi will either dominate or have bad luck. Very competitive year shaping up.:thumbup:


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

McLaren did well with another great drive from Kimi coming from the the back to the podium. From Kimi's comments, it still sounds like there's a lot of uncertainty about their reliability. The Cosworth probably does have the most horsepower if they are going to 20k. The Renault was going to about 19k and I didn't see anyone else's tach. More rpm gets more HP. With Heidfeld's spin at the start and JV's engine blowup, it hard to tell where the BMW actually is. It was a good weekend though.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

If the rest of the season will be as exciting as the first race then F1 will gain popularity. It's worth watching again!


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

+1 on the Kimi and Nico comments. Nico really tore it up in the last few laps, demoting Coulthard and Klien, who were not easy to pass. The Cosworth clearly kicked the crap out of the Ferrari V8s at the end of the straights. Well done for the guys from Grove.

Kimi's pace was impressive. JPM whined afterward about his car not being right all weekend, which may indeed be true. Does anyone know what the differences between handling preference are for Kimi and JPM? It happened last year too (apart from the "tennis" injury) but when JPM got what he wanted from the car, he was right on -- and sometimes exceeded -- Kimi's pace. Either Kimi is adapting better, or the McLaren is more tailored around his likes. :dunno:

Glad to see Alonso pick up the pace when it counted and knock the smile of Schumi's face! :thumbup:


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

Kimi just fricken rocks. And of course I will be hoping Mr. Speed has some luck.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> If the rest of the season will be as exciting as the first race then F1 will gain popularity. It's worth watching again!


I agree. From the qualifying to the last lap, it was an outstanding weekend.

I hope for more of the same!

.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I was depressed when I saw the Ferrari 1-2 in qualifying. The race was much better...good thing Alonso got MS after that pit stop. :thumbup:

Very entertaining race. Good way to start the year.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Glad to see Alonso pick up the pace when it counted and knock the smile of Schumi's face! :thumbup:


If Kimi (or anyone else, for that matter) couldn't quite get there, I'm glad Alonso did. I was rather surprised Schumi didn't take out FA at the pit exit. Perhaps he's mellowing in his advanced age. Very smart race for Fernando; very conservative for JPM; very gutsy for Nico. Big surprise: Sato finished the race.


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## brave1heart (Jan 7, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Does anyone know what the differences between handling preference are for Kimi and JPM?


I believe Montoya prefers a car that moves around a bit more. Most F1 cars reward smooth driving (read very little sliding), esp. now with the V8 engines, which magnify driver mistakes. Back at CART, Montoya's car seemed to move a lot in corners and it was always entertaining to watch him catch those huge power oversteers -- I think his style of driving is more aggressive and he does better in a car that allows that type of driving without eating up the tires too fast.

You might have read that Montoya claimed his engine was 7 kph slower than Kimi's in Friday practice and that he wanted a new engine. Ron Dennis disagreed and he attributed that difference to gearing :dunno:

Kimi is a great driver but I think that given the right car, Montoya could do battle with him very well. He proved it last season.


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## brave1heart (Jan 7, 2002)

*Great race!*

I agree -- it was an awesome race! Aside from the Japan GP last year where weather conditions in qualifying made for an interesting grid, the Bahrain race this last weekend was the best F1 race I've seen in years. Even qualifying is worth watching this year and it was very intense for the whole one hour!

Ferrari did a lot of testing in Bahrain and their good showing may not be very representative of where they really stand. I expect Renault and McLaren to battle it like they did last year with Honda, McLaren, and yes -- Williams! -- to battle for third in the constructors championship. I think that Nico Rosberg might actually be a serious competitor (for podium at least) this season -- if it weren't for his mishap on the first lap where he lost nearly a minute, he would have taken podium on his first race in F1. No rookie has ever posted best lap of the day in their first F1 race -- he made history this weekend :thumbup:

BMW-Sauber had an absolutely atrocious race -- I still can't get the image of the 10-ft flames coming out of JV's car with him desperately trying to escape the cockpit. This is the worst publicity that BMW could have ever wished for :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: I'd understand it better if there were problems with the chassis but you just don't think of BMW blowing engines that spectacularly in the race.

I hope Malaysia will be just as much fun to watch this coming weekend :thumbup:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I feel bad for DC. His engine blew after he crossed the finish line in P10, and this means an engine change before next weekend. That then means that his qualifying position drops 10 places.

Ironically, had the engine let go before he crossed the line, RBR could have changed his engine without any penalty for Malaysia.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Massa's engine has now been replaced twice this weekend, Spoonface once.

I only saw the 3rd qualifying session (slept in!) so I have no idea what happened to Rubens.

For a moment there, it looked Nico would get P2 - shocking!

I think that Alonso and Kimi have heavier fuel loads (?) so perhaps their pit strategy is different. Spoonface will probably be on 1 stop, assuming that the Firestone tires can handle that, and he will likely be up there.

Anyway, I can't wait for the race!


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Massa's engine has now been replaced twice this weekend, Spoonface once.
> 
> I only saw the 3rd qualifying session (slept in!) so I have no idea what happened to Rubens.
> 
> ...


Not a good day for the BMWs at all. Even with a new engine, JV was really slow. Not likely to improve tomorrow. Too bad about Spoon having an engine change.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Massa's engine has now been replaced twice this weekend, Spoonface once.
> 
> I only saw the 3rd qualifying session (slept in!) so I have no idea what happened to Rubens.
> 
> ...


I think Rubens also had a motor issue.

I think Montoya is also on a heavy fuel load.

Should be good!


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## 325xikombi (Mar 4, 2006)

it won't be a season just like last year mikey will not win unfortunatly and it will be all alonso and renault..dtm on the flip side should be more fun


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Strange. Whenever I hear the I-talian "national" anthem, I get this idea of overweight, unshaven men in light blue leotards, dancing to the music.  

Undoubtedly, when Spoonface heard it being played for Fisico, he probably thought, "they are playing my song."  


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Strange. Whenever I hear the I-talian "national" anthem, I get this idea of overweight, unshaven men in light blue leotards, dancing to the music.
> 
> Undoubtedly, when Spoonface heard it being played for Fisico, he probably thought, "they are playing my song."
> 
> .


Big tally in engine failures. Renault off to a very good start. Hass Fisi's luck turned around...or only temporarily. Too bad Nick's engine couldn't make it another 10 minutes. Oh, well, still learning.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

BMW
Jacques Villeneuve 7th: "I got held up early on behind Trulli, which was a pity because it cost me time, but once I had overtaken him it was just a question of running to the end," Villeneuve said. "Physically it was an easier race than I had expected and I knew I should be in good shape mechanically because it was the first race for my engine. It was bad luck for Nick, but we've scored the points we should have taken in Bahrain so I am happy. The race pace was strong, so we need now to work on our qualifying."

Nick Heidfeld DNF: "I hoped we would be faster than we were in qualifying but I didn't expect us to be so good. I could keep pace with the McLaren and was quicker than either of the Ferraris. I made a superb start and gained places straight away. After that I had a troublefree race apart from delays with blue flags which made lapping backmarkers difficult. After my second pit stop it was pretty close between Felipe and I in Turn 1, but I was able to stay ahead of him. The engine failure came without warning. Fifth place would have been brilliant for us, it's a real shame."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Heidfeld's catastrophic engine failure (and the smoke) was possibly the most dramatic event of the race!


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: 

Back to typical F1 racing........BORING!



How the hell is the TURD gonna comment on today's race, that was a pathetic "race".


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I didn't think it was so boring. It would have been better to have the faster cars racing at the front, but the engine rules that drop them to the back leave them racing with slower cars and make it difficult for them to reach the front. Sure Kimi did it last week, but he chose to take big risks and got away with it. That probably isn't going to pay off every time. Renault's got the best package right now, but the difference isn't so great throughout the top teams.

The artificial two race engine and the ten place drop are both dumb rules and should be changed. That's an easier statement to make than it is to make anything happen though.


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

After all the talk last week after Villeneuve's engine blew up--about Williams and how they must be SOOO glad they switched from BMW to Cosworth this season... I just had to laugh a bit when both Williams detonated. Then Nick blew up from an excellent fifth place. :bawling: Gee, I'm sure glad El Turdo decided to save all that money by switching to V8s this year. 

At least the BMWs showed some good pace this weekend. Let's hope they start getting a little more TV time soon. I don't think we got to see any of the BMW Sauber pit stops.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Apparently, Williams knew that they were in for engine trouble in the heat of Sepang, even before they got there. At least this was clear after Friday's practice sessions, when they didn't really do any laps and those that they did, they had the revs turned down.

Albert Park should be cooler and thus Ok for those teams that did not have to make an engine change before the race on Sunday.


.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

racerdave said:


> A great moment from the Friday practice:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahahaha...love the quote at the end! True-blue JP!!!:thumbup:


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Mr. E said:


> After all the talk last week after Villeneuve's engine blew up--about Williams and how they must be SOOO glad they switched from BMW to Cosworth this season... I just had to laugh a bit when both Williams detonated. Then Nick blew up from an excellent fifth place. :bawling: Gee, I'm sure glad El Turdo decided to save all that money by switching to V8s this year.
> 
> At least the BMWs showed some good pace this weekend. Let's hope they start getting a little more TV time soon. I don't think we got to see any of the BMW Sauber pit stops.


Ditto. We didn't get to see Nick's and JV's stops at the end when Nick beat out Massa for 5th and JV came out into 8th ahead of Ralf.

We did get to see him chased by the Ferraris for a while though and then, KABLAMMO!

2-for-2 BMW is now on KABLAMMOs.

Not very good advertisement.

I was very happy either, being only 7.5 laps away from 5th and 8th.


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Motown328 said:


> 2-for-2 BMW is now on KABLAMMOs.
> 
> Not very good advertisement.
> 
> I was very happy either, being only 7.5 laps away from 5th and 8th.


You're right, those spectacular race failures sure don't look good. On the other hand, it's obvious that reliability is going to be a concern for all the teams. Ferrari changed three of their four engines between races, Williams had two blowups... I can't even keep track of all the engine changes any more.

I can't get over the statistic that Steve Matchett quoted, I think during the Bahrain qualifying. In order to implement El Turdo's "money saving" mandate to move to V8s, the teams spent a combined 1 BILLION Euros developing their new engines. Of course, the Torro Rosso team spent a whopping $1 for an air restrictor to run their rev limited V10. :eeps:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> You're right, those spectacular race failures sure don't look good. On the other hand, it's obvious that reliability is going to be a concern for all the teams. Ferrari changed three of their four engines between races, Williams had two blowups... I can't even keep track of all the engine changes any more.
> 
> I can't get over the statistic that Steve Matchett quoted, I think during the Bahrain qualifying. In order to implement El Turdo's "money saving" mandate to move to V8s, the teams spent a combined 1 BILLION Euros developing their new engines. Of course, the Torro Rosso team spent a whopping $1 for an air restrictor to run their rev limited V10. :eeps:


Yeah, Steve's observation slayed me, too. Priceless (so to speak.)


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Max is a turd.

That is all.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Mr. E said:


> You're right, those spectacular race failures sure don't look good. On the other hand, it's obvious that reliability is going to be a concern for all the teams. Ferrari changed three of their four engines between races, Williams had two blowups... I can't even keep track of all the engine changes any more.
> 
> I can't get over the statistic that Steve Matchett quoted, I think during the Bahrain qualifying. In order to implement El Turdo's "money saving" mandate to move to V8s, the teams spent a combined 1 BILLION Euros developing their new engines. Of course, the Torro Rosso team spent a whopping $1 for an air restrictor to run their rev limited V10. :eeps:


Well, it will make for one heck of an exciting F1 season. You just are never out of the race nor the points this time around. Unfortunately, we saw that with Nick this past weekend. Funny thing is, after Rosberg passed us up, I was hoping for a blowout....chanting at the TV....two scene changes later on SPEED Channel, Rosberg's car starts shooting out shrapnel! HAHAHAHA!!!!

Then I said, well, Webber is currently in the pits. Let's have him blow up too as he is in 4th. Nick can move up. Three laps after I thought that....KABLOOOM!!! HAHAHAHA!!!

Then, later in the race, my wife comes in the room and asks how BMW is doing. I say, 5th and 8th! WHOOOHOOO!!! Just as long as nothing blows up, I continue. 15 seconds later, the screen shows Heidfeld's Sauber exploding.

  

All my wife could do was laugh.uch:


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> Max is a turd.
> 
> That is all.


Yes, but a very *rich* turd. Indeed.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Free cap came in. :bigpimp:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Oh, and does anyone have an Autosport/Atlas subscription? What were Montoya's post-Oz comments about McLaren?


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Oh, and does anyone have an Autosport/Atlas subscription? What were Montoya's post-Oz comments about McLaren?


Here it is...it's long though.



> Montoya questions McLaren's tactics
> 
> By Jonathan Noble	Monday, April 3rd 2006, 16:36 GMT
> 
> ...


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Thanks for posting.

I guess it's no big secret, but there's clearly no love lost on the McLaren team. 

Which is good... should make for some more interesting races!


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Just saw today that Mike Gasgoyne has been gassed at Toyota.


I heard the same last night, confirmed by Toyota today.

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Thanks for posting.
> 
> I guess it's no big secret, but there's clearly no love lost on the McLaren team.
> 
> Which is good... should make for some more interesting races!


Montoya is obviously frustrated about being #2. Grow up, guy.

His spin on the formation lap probably embarrassed the p00p out of him. :rofl:

.


----------



## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Montoya is obviously frustrated about being #2. Grow up, guy.
> 
> His spin on the formation lap probably embarrassed the p00p out of him. :rofl:
> 
> .


Yeah, and Fisi too (form lap spin!)

Montoya has already named a few teams he'd like to be at next year. He did put BMW high on the list. Would be great to have him back if Nick or JV split. Although I would rather have both of them back, you never know with the F1 circus.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Motown328 said:


> Yeah, and Fisi too (form lap spin!)
> 
> Montoya has already named a few teams he'd like to be at next year. He did put BMW high on the list. Would be great to have him back if Nick or JV split. Although I would rather have both of them back, you never know with the F1 circus.


I think JV is gone after this year. They didn't want to renew his contract this year in the first place. Someone, yet to be determined, will most likely replace him.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


> I think JV is gone after this year. They didn't want to renew his contract this year in the first place. Someone, yet to be determined, will most likely replace him.


Actually, Villeneuve is in the second year of his Sauber contract that BMW inherited when it bought Sauber. There were off-season attempts to buy him out, but the money was too much.

I agree though; this is his last year - in a BMW, at least.

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

And my guess for Montoya would be Red Bull in 2007.


.


----------



## Remmizo (Aug 16, 2004)

Patrick said:


> And my guess for Montoya would be Red Bull in 2007.
> 
> .


Yeah I agree. Just a bit off-topic but what about MS if he and the team have another unproductive year. Will he call it quits and perhaps take on a team manager role? (not necessarily with Ferrari)


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Actually, Villeneuve is in the second year of his Sauber contract that BMW inherited when it bought Sauber. There were off-season attempts to buy him out, but the money was too much.
> 
> I agree though; this is his last year - in a BMW, at least.
> 
> .


I've got to say, JV's form is actually pretty good this year. We'll have to see what happens over the season, but so far, not bad.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

racerdave said:


> I've got to say, JV's form is actually pretty good this year. We'll have to see what happens over the season, but so far, not bad.


True enough. Last year he seemed like a cry baby, but I think he's hit his new stride, so to speak.

Rather than starting a new thread, I thought this might be of interest to the BMW Sauber F1 Team fans here (as reported at GrandPrix.com):

*"An interesting idea from BMW*

The BMW Sauber F1 Team is putting its name to a new "theme park" area at the Nurburgring, in which race fans can get a look up close at what happens in the pit lane and team garages at a Grand Prix. The new displays will be open to the public at the European Grand Prix at the beginning of May
"The Pit Lane Park" is part of the BMW branding process in F1 and features as much detail as possible. The displays will feature a pitlane with cars running through it from time to time, plus a garage area set up as it is at a Grand Prix. Inside the garages there will be a selection of cars, some race-ready, others stripped down allowing fans to see and even touch parts of the cars to see the weight. There is even the chance to be photographed in BMW racing overalls and to sit in an F1 cockpit. There will be a variety of other activities such as pit stop challenges, quizzes and driving simulators. There are to be regular visits from the drivers to answer questions for the fans and, naturally, a merchandising area. The display will then be packed away and will be transported to five other Grands Prix in 2006: Barcelona,
Silverstone, Montreal, Monza and Shanghai. The display will be able to handle 16,000 fans a day."


----------



## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

berford said:


> True enough. Last year he seemed like a cry baby, but I think he's hit his new stride, so to speak.
> 
> Rather than starting a new thread, I thought this might be of interest to the BMW Sauber F1 Team fans here (as reported at GrandPrix.com):
> 
> ...


I read this earlier. It sounds awesome. I'll report back on it after I get back from Spain and the Spanish GP.

-MrB


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

racerdave said:


> I've got to say, JV's form is actually pretty good this year. We'll have to see what happens over the season, but so far, not bad.


Agreed. I am pleasntly surprised by his performance to date. Lets hope it holds up.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

It seems formula1.com has decided to change their format for reporting partial driver and constructor points on their home page. Previously (up until the last few days) they reported the top three drivers and the top three constructors in their little preview window. Now, however, they have added a fourth, which happens to be none other than Michael Schumacher. Of course he's tied for fourth with Jensen Button at the moment, but does Jensen appear also (even though if it were done in any way alphabetic, he would clearly appear)? The answer is, you guessed it, NO! Go figure.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Spoonface's "people" probably demanded that - and formula1.com is probably paying him a few million as well. :bigpimp: 


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Spoonface's "people" probably demanded that - and formula1.com is probably paying him a few million as well. :bigpimp:
> 
> .


I understand Bernie can afford it.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

It may be a bit early to be saying this out loud, but if Alonso wins this weekend, and Räikkönen, Button, MSchumacher make a mess of it, I think that Alonso will be his way to being the Formula 1 Driver's Champion for the second year in a row.

Kovalainen smoked everyone in testing this week, and the Renaults seem to be getting stronger from one race to the next.

Could this be over by July? :dunno: 


.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> It may be a bit early to be saying this out loud, but if Alonso wins this weekend, and Räikkönen, Button, MSchumacher make a mess of it, I think that Alonso will be his way to being the Formula 1 Driver's Champion for the second year in a row.
> 
> Kovalainen smoked everyone in testing this week, and the Renaults seem to be getting stronger from one race to the next.
> 
> ...


Remember last year... Renault looked unbeatable, then Imola came and McLaren's (unreliable) rise started... but I do agree, Renault looks like they're on the right track to repeat.


----------



## razzy530 (Nov 8, 2005)

i dont understand why Alonso would switch to Mercedes next year:dunno: 
Hes doing so well with Renault. More money maybe??


----------



## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

razzy530 said:


> i dont understand why Alonso would switch to Mercedes next year:dunno:
> Hes doing so well with Renault. More money maybe??


I think Renault's days are numbered financially. There was talk of them pulling out of F1 fairly soon due to cost and not seeing a direct benefit to car sales. Renault is not exactly your F1 bread and butter customer. :dunno:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Just as an aside (and I presume others are aware of this): I stopped by the Racing and Sports Book room at Paris Casino, Las Vegas to see if I could place a bet on the next F1 race. They told me that since the incident when Baracello was ordered to let Schumacher win (don't remember the exact race), Vegas doesn't maintain a book on F1. I had no idea that it would have that effect, but it makes sense when you think about it. Just another reason to dislike the guys in red. What a shame.

P.S., If JPM wins at San Marino, I'll be really pi$$ed.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

racerdave said:


> I've got to say, JV's form is actually pretty good this year. We'll have to see what happens over the season, but so far, not bad.


Interesting...I said last year I thought JV might be good to keep on at BMW Sauber, as a veteran with something to contribute...and everyone looked at me like I wiped my butt with my hands.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Just as an aside (and I presume others are aware of this): I stopped by the Racing and Sports Book room at Paris Casino, Las Vegas to see if I could place a bet on the next F1 race. They told me that since the incident when Baracello was ordered to let Schumacher win (don't remember the exact race), Vegas doesn't maintain a book on F1. I had no idea that it would have that effect, but it makes sense when you think about it. Just another reason to dislike the guys in red. What a shame.


There was a similar situation here - and as I recall, no one was paid (winning bets) for the Austrian GP fiasco. Money was returned, whatever your bet was as long as you had a receipt.

But yes, that was probably one of the darkest moments for Formula 1. :thumbdwn:

.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> Just as an aside (and I presume others are aware of this): I stopped by the Racing and Sports Book room at Paris Casino, Las Vegas to see if I could place a bet on the next F1 race. They told me that since the incident when Baracello was ordered to let Schumacher win (don't remember the exact race), Vegas doesn't maintain a book on F1.


FYI: this was discussed on WindTunnel not too long ago.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Test_Engineer said:


> I think Renault's days are numbered financially. There was talk of them pulling out of F1 fairly soon due to cost and not seeing a direct benefit to car sales.


I think any car company would have a very difficult time tying their F1 budget to car sales. To even try and justify that sort of budget by increases in sales is a bit naive.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

dwette said:


> FYI: this was discussed on WindTunnel not too long ago.


Thought they only dealt with NASCAR on WindyTunnel. Consequently, I don't watch.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> Thought they only dealt with NASCAR on WindyTunnel. Consequently, I don't watch.


 Yeah...it's gotten pretty bad. They mostly cover NASCAR, but they do at least give lip service to auto racing.

Speed is really getting pretty bad. It seems more and more to function as little more than to prop up Fox's NASCAR programming. Of course, having reality shows about guys with no teeth building choppers and ricers is way more important than covering road racing and rallying.

I really wish D* would add the EuroSport channels. Then Speed Channel wouldn't matter.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Cbs


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Could this be over by July? :dunno:
> 
> .


It would seem likely. :dunno:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

That was quite an effort by Ferrari to get MSchumacher the pole position record at Imola (his 66th P1, thus beating Senna's old record of 65).  

I wonder if he will have to pit after the first three laps tomorrow for fuel. But hey, another record is his. :yawn: 


.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Tough to say... they've been fast in every session. Fuel loads will be interesting.

I'd actually like to see Barrichello get the best start and lead MS... that would surely p!ss him off!


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> I'd actually like to see Barrichello get the best start and lead MS... that would surely p!ss him off!


I agree WRT Rubens getting ahead of MS after the start. That would be excellent.

And to be honest, I would really like to see (don't laugh, please) Button WIN tomorrow. I am serious!

There didn't seem to be much warmth between Spoonface and his former teammate in the post-qualifying press conference, at least IMHO.

I was also LMAO watching Spoonface to try to downplay his 66th P1. Good grief.

We will see tomorrow what they were up to.

Oh, and yes, I am slightly PO'ed about how the McLarens did today. Kimi's engine did have 540km on it going into this weekend, and the thinking here is that he is on a 2 stop strategy whereas most other teams are probably on a 3 stop race.

.


----------



## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

*Spoonface is a cheater so he only has 63 P1s.*

http://cbs.sportsline.com/autoracing/story/9390547

Schumacher's pole position total is a subject of debate.

At the 1997 European Grand Prix in Spain, Schumacher crashed into Jacques Villeneuve in what some believe was a deliberate move, and the sport's governing body disqualified Schumacher from the final standings of the season.

According to some counts, the disqualification also deprives Schumacher of the three poles he won that year in Canada, France and Hungary. Without those, Schumacher's total is 63.

The pole position mark was the only significant Formula One record that Schumacher lacked. The German has won seven world titles, two more than Juan Manuel Fangio.

However, his run of five straight world titles was broken last season by Alonso and Schumacher has had only one good race this season, a runner-up finish from the pole at the opener in Bahrain.

Ferrari worked overtime since both Schumacher and Massa crashed out in Australia three weeks ago. The team is introducing several aerodynamic improvements this weekend, but Schumacher indicated that the most important upgrades were in the team's Bridgestone tires.

"Now we know what (tires) to use and what it can do," he said. "Yesterday I said I was aiming for pole and the win. Today we have reached the first target and I hope I can make the second one tomorrow. I am convinced we have a good chance of winning."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

:rofl:

***

How perfect! :thumbup:

:rofl:

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Here we go!!!!!!

:thumbup: 


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

:yikes: 

What a crash!

Albers can thank Ide for that ... :thumbdwn: 

Terrible start from Kimi, great start by Spoonface, but it was ruined by the Follow-me Car.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The commentators for our (Finnish) broadcast are arguing about who is more dangerous: Sato or Ide. :rofl: 

That was also Ide's last race as far as anyone knows.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Ok, I was wrong about Ferrari's strategy - I admit it.  

The first third of the race was a bit boring, but after that, it was great racing! And a repeat of last year's race, with Spoonface and Alonso in reverse positions. Good stuff.

Massa screwed his own race up, the Lolly Pop guy for Honda screwed up Button's race and McLaren should be happy to get Montoya's P3.

I wish there could have been a split screen for the last 18 laps to watch MSchumacher vs Alonso and Massa vs Räikkönen!

Anyway, the Autodromo Enzo Dino Ferrari in its current form, does not offer ANY overtaking places. Bummer, but it is easy to understand why the track has been modified.


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

MS
FA
JPM

...and who says Juan is dead?


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

thilton59 said:


> That works, and that broadcast did feel a bit like watching a nascar "race".


NASCAR does a way better job of promotion. CBS's coverage of F1 sucks, and the commentators are terrible.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Interesting. Alonso does not think that Ferrari will win again this year, and still sees Fisi and Räikkönen as the only threat to the World Championship.


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

mazachan said:


> I think he meant the restart after the safety car


Did anyone notice that when the safety car came out one of the announcers identified it as the "pace car." I wonder how they could make that mistake?


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> Did anyone notice that when the safety car came out one of the announcers identified it as the "pace car." I wonder how they could make that mistake?


 Yeah, I noticed that too. Derek Daly said that. F1 doesn't have pace cars. Typical of him to get facts screwed up.

What I hate is how he and Ralph Shaheen keep droning on that Daly drove in F1. Well yeah, that was 25 years ago, and in 64 grand prix starts he had 0 championships, 0 poles, 0 podium finishes, 0 fastest laps. In all a total of 15 points. So I guess that gives him the right to give us lousy commentary, misrepresent modern F1 racing to US viewers, and treat us all like babbling idiots.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Are the CBS announcers actually track-side, or are they commenting from some booth in New York City while watching the same feed that everyone else sees?


.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Are the CBS announcers actually track-side, or are they commenting from some booth in New York City while watching the same feed that everyone else sees?


I think one of them interviewed a driver pre-race, IIRC.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Are the CBS announcers actually track-side, or are they commenting from some booth in New York City while watching the same feed that everyone else sees?
> 
> .


Speed does that too.

The practice to send a US broadcast team to each GP died a few years before ESPN gave it up.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

This is really funny. Nearly all of the commentary on the race is about how bad the CBS broadcast team is. They are the Super Aguri of auto racing announce teams. I'm going to have to watch the Speedchannel replay on Saturday just to feel like I watched a real F1 race. At least they pulled the plug on Ide. Now only if they would keep Ralph Sheheen from destroying his next race.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> This is really funny. Nearly all of the commentary on the race is about how bad the CBS broadcast team is. They are the Super Aguri of auto racing announce teams. I'm going to have to watch the Speedchannel replay on Saturday just to feel like I watched a real F1 race. At least they pulled the plug on Ide. Now only if they would keep Ralph Sheheen from destroying his next race.


I think Ide's retirement from F1 is anticipated, but they haven't pulled the plug just yet. He did get a reprimand from the race stewards though.


----------



## mazachan (Jan 23, 2005)

dwette said:


> I think Ide's retirement from F1 is anticipated, but they haven't pulled the plug just yet. He did get a reprimand from the race stewards though.


He's dangerous. Not like a "Maverick dangerous" but dangerous in that someone will get killed with the way he drives. I think he's really lucky that Albers escaped unscathed, because if it were me and I got hurt, I'd probably press charges against him.

I'd much rather see Davidson race for SA since he has the experience and he seems to deserve it.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Some interesting observations from grandprix.com:
*"Ferrari was obviously pushing to the absolute maximum because when it came to fettling the cars in parc ferme, Ferrari asked the FIA Technical Delegate to allow them to change the entire fuel pump system. This was hidden away in an obscure FIA press release but it was interesting nonetheless. The team explained that this was necessary because of a fuel pressure problem."*

Comment: So sometimes parc ferme isn't.

And:
*"*
*With only Michael ahead, Fernando was quickly closing in. The gap was 11.2secs on lap 26 and 0.4secs on lap 34. And then, just as Alonso arrived behind him. Michael suddenly slowed, his lap times falling from 1m26s to 1m28s.*
*Michael for some reason explained this away as being a tyre graining problem. After the race when asked Bridgestone seemed mystified that Michael should have struggled but one is tempted to suggest that perhaps the tyres were not really the issue. It was much more logical that Michael was slowing down Alonso in order to stop the Renault using its obvious car advantage to win the race."*

Comment: Back to his old tricks. What a ___________. (fill in the blank)


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Yep.

And as soon as Renault changed their pit strategy for Alonso (and he came in 2 laps earlier than planned), Spoonface took off, only to come out in front of Alonso after doing his own pit (0.6 seconds faster).

Conventional wisdom in the Finnish press is that Spoonface purposely slowed down and allowed Alonso to catch him, knowing that there was no way to pass. Spoonface also mentioned that something "did damage to his car" after the the first pit stop, but it wasn't a tyre related issue. Magically, the damage fixed itself.

Ok.


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Some interesting observations from grandprix.com:
> *"Ferrari was obviously pushing to the absolute maximum because when it came to fettling the cars in parc ferme, Ferrari asked the FIA Technical Delegate to allow them to change the entire fuel pump system. This was hidden away in an obscure FIA press release but it was interesting nonetheless. The team explained that this was necessary because of a fuel pressure problem."*
> 
> Comment: So sometimes parc ferme isn't.


I will be very interested to hear more about this, especially if the Turds from the FIA allowed them to do this before the technical inspection.

A fuel pressure problem? Like what, the car was on the verge of exploding in the Parc Ferme?

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Ok, was this after qualifying, or the race? :dunno: 


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Ok, was this after qualifying, or the race? :dunno:
> 
> .


Apparently after qualifying. What would be the point after the race?


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> ...
> 
> And:
> *"*
> ...


 Fair is fair! This is exactly what Alonso did to Schumi last year at Imola. When Schumi was on Alonso's butt the last 13 laps of Imola 05, Alonso slowed so they wouldn't have to come up against the backmarkers. At full speed they would have lapped them, coming up against traffic that might have given Schumi a chance to slip thru.

It just shows that both of them are great drivers and great stategists. I like seeing these Alonso/Schumi battles (I'm not a big Kimi fan anyway).


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Apparently after qualifying. What would be the point after the race?


I meant, if Ferrari was actually allowed by the FIA to change something on the car _post-race_ in Parc Ferme.

Obviously (I re-read the article) that was not the case.

.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

dwette said:


> Fair is fair! This is exactly what Alonso did to Schumi last year at Imola. When Schumi was on Alonso's butt the last 13 laps of Imola 05, Alonso slowed so they wouldn't have to come up against the backmarkers. At full speed they would have lapped them, coming up against traffic that might have given Schumi a chance to slip thru.
> 
> It just shows that both of them are great drivers and great stategists. I like seeing these Alonso/Schumi battles (I'm not a big Kimi fan anyway).


Yep.

Finally some fairness on the issue. :thumbup:


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

BTW... a great race.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

dwette said:


> Fair is fair! This is exactly what Alonso did to Schumi last year at Imola. When Schumi was on Alonso's butt the last 13 laps of Imola 05, Alonso slowed so they wouldn't have to come up against the backmarkers. At full speed they would have lapped them, coming up against traffic that might have given Schumi a chance to slip thru.
> 
> It just shows that both of them are great drivers and great stategists. I like seeing these Alonso/Schumi battles (I'm not a big Kimi fan anyway).


:stupid:

I'd love to see Kimi join the battle, though. Ron promised more speed for Nurburgring but I've heard so much BS from him before that I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> And now more speculation that Ferrari's rear wing is still illegal (flexes past the allowable limit) - this time, Honda has filed a complaint with the FIA. Of course, this will fall on deaf ears.
> 
> .


Deaf ears? I can't imagine why would you say that. :dunno: :bigpimp:


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Do you mean the mono-brow he had?


No... it was either the beginning of last season or maybe even two seasons ago, he had a little tuft below his lower lip... some 70's friends of mine told me that facial hair in that style used to have a variety of names including "Soul Patch", "Love Patch" (think about it  ) and "Love Brush".... Anyway, its gone, and now he needs to have his eyebrows thinned... :rofl:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Deaf ears? I can't imagine why would you say that. :dunno: :bigpimp:


What?

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Salvator said:


> No... it was either the beginning of last season or maybe even two seasons ago, he had a little tuft below his lower lip... some 70's friends of mine told me that facial hair in that style used to have a variety of names including "Soul Patch", "Love Patch" (think about it  ) and "Love Brush".... Anyway, its gone, and now he needs to have his eyebrows thinned... :rofl:


Ok, yes, I remember that! :rofl:

.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Detailed last weekend.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Detailed last weekend.


:rofl:

Reported! Wrong forum!!

.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Reported! Wrong forum!!
> 
> .


sorry, my bad


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> sorry, my bad


:stickpoke

No worries - clean car, BTW! :bigpimp:

.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Hmm, if FA used up his fronts trying to pass MS< it means he didn't have the stuff to pass him. 

And having the two of them race against each other is watching , IMO, the two best drivers in F1 today, and two of the coolest headed drivers ever. Both think, plan and mostly run a well thought out race. Doing just what needs to be done to win, and knowing when it is best to accept your position rather than crash going for the win.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Williams will have to replace Rosberg's engine before the European Grand Prix. Apparently, it has 620km on it, but has some piston problems (or one piston is bad).

It would be great if Cosworth could get this figured out!


.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Hmm, if FA used up his fronts trying to pass MS< it means he didn't have the stuff to pass him.


Maybe but...

the track is notoriously hard to pass on, and current F1 aerodynamics only makes the situation worse.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> Maybe but...
> 
> the track is notoriously hard to pass on, and current F1 aerodynamics only makes the situation worse.


But we have seen Alonso pass in places you wouldn't expect, like his 200 MPH+ pass on Schumi on the 130R at Suzuka.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

dwette said:


> But we have seen Alonso pass in places you wouldn't expect, like his 200 MPH+ pass on Schumi on the 130R at Suzuka.


I think if he would have forced the issue he could have passed MS early after the final pit stop.

Schumi is known to touch when being over taken late in the race, and this being on Ferrari home turf, it was a good chance that would have been the case, so Alonso did the smart thing and took the second place championship points.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> I think if he would have forced the issue he could have passed MS early after the final pit stop.
> 
> Schumi is known to touch when being over taken late in the race, and this being on Ferrari home turf, it was a good chance that would have been the case, so Alonso did the smart thing and took the second place championship points.


Very observant.

Did anyone mention how much the Ferrari rear wing flexes at speed? It's amazing! Isn't there a rule against that?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> Maybe but...
> 
> the track is notoriously hard to pass on, and current F1 aerodynamics only makes the situation worse.


The track (in its current form) is impossible to pass on.

IMHO, it is a waste of time to even race there - even more so than Monaco.

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Very observant.
> 
> Did anyone mention how much the Ferrari rear wing flexes at speed? It's amazing! Isn't there a rule against that?


LOL. Yes, it has come up (previous page).

MSchumacher's top speed down the straight was 7km/h faster than anyone else during the race. Amazing!

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

dwette said:


> But we have seen Alonso pass in places you wouldn't expect, like his 200 MPH+ pass on Schumi on the 130R at Suzuka.


That over-taking manouevre was insane, almost as good as when Häkkinen passed Spoonface at Spa in 2001 (or was it 2002?). :bigpimp:

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> LOL. Yes, it has come up (previous page).
> 
> MSchumacher's top speed down the straight was 7km/h faster than anyone else during the race. Amazing!
> 
> .


I know it was back there. It just didn't generate much interest. I was trying to get something going. I hope Honda's complaint goes somewhere. But prolly not.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> I know it was back there. It just didn't generate much interest. I was trying to get something going. I hope Honda's complaint goes somewhere. But prolly not.


It was an unofficial "letter" from Honda, to the FIA, namely to Charlie Whiting, which means that nothing will happen.

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> It was an unofficial "letter" from Honda, to the FIA, namely to Charlie Whiting, which means that nothing will happen.
> 
> .


Perhaps the other teams need to grow some balls, too.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I can't even start describing how much frustration the Turd is causing me these days  
I honestly think that the best thing for F1 would be if they parted ways with the FIA. Max and the rest of FIA gang set out on the mission to "fix" Formula 1 when they were in fact the reason the racing got so bad and boring in the last decade. They are behind the idea of narrow cars and grooved tires that were introduced to slow cars down. That didn't work, of course, and as a bonus we got the cars that are almost impossible to overtake. 

Do you think FIA is capable of introducing the changes necessary to make racing interesting and keep speeds and costs in check?


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Do you think FIA is capable of introducing the changes necessary to make racing interesting and keep speeds and costs in check?


In a word, NO! If it were solely up to The Turd, it would be a complete disaster. But at least they made qualifying more interesting. It's at least as much fun to watch as the races. Perhaps that's what they'll propose next...just have qualifying without a race to follow. Much cleaner way to award points without the additional costs of a really long race and all those tires and fuel would be saved, too. And safer (unless they let Ida back out.):yikes:


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

berford said:


> In a word, NO! If it were solely up to The Turd, it would be a complete disaster. But at least they made qualifying more interesting. It's at least as much fun to watch as the races. Perhaps that's what they'll propose next...just have qualifying without a race to follow. Much cleaner way to award points without the additional costs of a really long race and all those tires and fuel would be saved, too. And safer (unless they let Ida back out.):yikes:


I like this year's qualifying format better but they still need to fix the last part and get rid of the stupid race fuel restriction. 15 minutes or more of nothing but parade laps burning off fuel is just a waste.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Sorry but racing is more than passing. Especially if pit stops are included.

I have had some wonderful races where I did not pass anyone, and nobody passed me. But felt good after the race and had a GREAT time. And running a spec car, means no performance advantage from car to car, and some close, but passing free racing.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Maybe drivers tolerate no passing but as a fan I like to watch race drivers overtake each other.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> Sorry but racing is more than passing. Especially if pit stops are included.
> 
> I have had some wonderful races where I did not pass anyone, and nobody passed me. But felt good after the race and had a GREAT time. And running a spec car, means no performance advantage from car to car, and some close, but passing free racing.


 Yes, but there are two perspectives to racing: doing and watching. I agree that it could be great fun to drive a race and never pass or be passed. But as a spectator it is less interesting. When I watch a race I like to see battles for position that involve passing. It's just more fun for a spectator. When F1 races are follow the leader and position changes happen as a result of pit strategy that may be great for the race drivers, but not as much for us watching it. An overwhelming majority of F1 fans agree that passing makes the sport better for spectators.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> I have had some wonderful races where I did not pass anyone, and nobody passed me.


 Of course, we could also interpret that to mean you're just a backmarker, and you don't drive races long enough for the leaders to lap you. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Those of you who are critical of the passing in F1, do you follow the real time lap times and gaps during the race? As Pinecone says, racing is more than just passing it's running at competitive speeds as well. 

As far as qualifying and it's improvement this year, the FIA (and the Turd) screwed it up in the first place. I agree it's better this year, but they could go back to the one hour low fuel qualifying and I'd love it. Then we would know who is the fastest. This contrived fuel burn off puts us back in the gamesmanship again.


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

dwette said:


> Yes, but there are two perspectives to racing: doing and watching. I agree that it could be great fun to drive a race and never pass or be passed. But as a spectator it is less interesting. When I watch a race I like to see battles for position that involve passing. It's just more fun for a spectator. When F1 races are follow the leader and position changes happen as a result of pit strategy that may be great for the race drivers, but not as much for us watching it. An overwhelming majority of F1 fans agree that passing makes the sport better for spectators.


Even if there is no passing, I enjoy seeing who is going to crash or whose car is going to give up the ghost. Like with JV running in 10th in the Ring and then BAM! off goes JPM....and then BAM!!! Ralf is done...bingo bango, we've got 8th and a point! That is exciting as well...if not a little cheap...hahaha...


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

*Great news for JV Fans!*

I am excited!!!:thumbup:

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/10052006/13/bmw-praise-resurgent-villeneuve.html


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The FIA revoked Ide's Super License today.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Check this out!

http://www.minardif1x2.com/

I think that they should let Pinecone drive it for a few laps!

:bigpimp:

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

_The Permanent Bureau of the Formula 1 Commission has decided to withdraw Yuji Ide's Superlicence with immediate effect. *The body is made up of FIA President Max Mosley, F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and two team representatives (one of which is always Ferrari).*_

Of course. :tsk:

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> _The Permanent Bureau of the Formula 1 Commission has decided to withdraw Yuji Ide's Superlicence with immediate effect. *The body is made up of FIA President Max Mosley, F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and two team representatives (one of which is always Ferrari).*_
> 
> Of course. :tsk:
> 
> .


I've long observed the phenomenon, of course, but I've never really understood why or how Ferrari has acquired such privilege in F1. Emotion aside, can someone(s) explain the history in simple terms (those that even I can understand.)


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> The FIA revoked Ide's Super License today.


Noticed that as well. I blogged the other day about how he shouldn't be driving in F1. Think Bernie and Max read my blog?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

dwette said:


> Noticed that as well. I blogged the other day about how he shouldn't be driving in F1. Think Bernie and Max read my blog?


Apparently, they listened to Sterling Moss of all people.

.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

a) WHy bother why I can do this? http://www.racing-school.co.uk/formula2.html

b) I am running pretty consistantly in the top 3rd in a spec class, after one full year of racing. That is not too bad. The problem is, if the cars are evenly matched it is VERY hard to pass. But working at trying is great fun.

And again, if you want lots of passing, watch NASCAR. That is the result you get with rules to make idiot fans happy.  Sophisticted fans enjoy the racing for waht it is and how it goes, not how to make it more "fun" for the unwashed masses. 

c) Maybe because Ferrari is about the ONLY team that has been racing in F1 since the post WW2 era started. Everybody else comes and goes, but Farrari is always there.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> a)
> And again, if you want lots of passing, watch NASCAR. That is the result you get with rules to make idiot fans happy.  Sophisticted fans enjoy the racing for waht it is and how it goes, not how to make it more "fun" for the unwashed masses. .


:tsk: :thumbdwn:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> And again, if you want lots of passing, watch NASCAR. That is the result you get with rules to make idiot fans happy.  Sophisticted fans enjoy the racing for waht it is and how it goes, not how to make it more "fun" for the unwashed masses.
> 
> c) Maybe because Ferrari is about the ONLY team that has been racing in F1 since the post WW2 era started. Everybody else comes and goes, but Farrari is always there.


Well, if you actually watched any Nascar, you might notice there's not always a lot of passing there either.

But there was a lot more passing in F1 last year. And while I can appreciate strategy, that doesn't make it exciting... to me.

AND... there was a good column on speedtv.com the other day about how F1 is becoming like Nascar... a procession until pit stops, a points system that doesn't provide added incentive to winning. That's not saying technically it's the same (duh), but Max is slowly, inexorably trying to make F1 like Nascar. See the 08 rules.

Oh... and that brings me to Ferrari. Why are they favored? No, it's not historical, because Ferrari's always been there. It's more because of the modern politics that Ferrari have been in bed with Max from Day 1, while everyone else bucked the system. So the rules have gotten more favorable for Ferrari as a way of leverage for getting the other teams back in the FIA fold again.

Go back and look at all the GPMA stuff, and as the war escalated, Ferrari's influence (and favor) became stronger and stronger with the FIA.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> And again, if you want lots of passing, watch NASCAR. That is the result you get with rules to make idiot fans happy.  Sophisticted fans enjoy the racing for waht it is and how it goes, not how to make it more "fun" for the unwashed masses.


 I'm going to call total BS on that. Most motorsports feature driving action that includes passing. Saying that fans who want to see passing are unsophistated is being snobby and elitist. Call it what you want, but passing action adds to the thrill. F1 is my favorite series and I pay attention to lap times, gaps between drivers, pit stategy, but I like seeing battles in the corners for position. I like seeing a trailing driver with the skill to capitalize on the mistake of a leading driver. I like seeing Alonso pass Schumi in the 130R at 200 MPH+. I like seeing the lead change so that you really don't know who's going to win until the end.

Seeing a driver take the lead at the start and knowing they've won the race as long as they and their pit crew make no mistakes is just not as interesting. Look at the other car series like ALMS, DTM, GrandAm, BTCC, CC, etc. Plenty of good racing action, passing and otherwise. You can't seriously say they are all unsophisticated. Or are you claiming that F1 is the only sophisticated motorsport.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Oh... and that brings me to Ferrari. Why are they favored? No, it's not historical, because Ferrari's always been there. It's more because of the modern politics that Ferrari have been in bed with Max from Day 1, while everyone else bucked the system. So the rules have gotten more favorable for Ferrari as a way of leverage for getting the other teams back in the FIA fold again.
> 
> Go back and look at all the GPMA stuff, and as the war escalated, Ferrari's influence (and favor) became stronger and stronger with the FIA.


Didn't they start with major rule changes at the end of 2002 to stop Ferrari running away with the championship in the following seasons? :dunno:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Didn't they start with major rule changes at the end of 2002 to stop Ferrari running away with the championship in the following seasons? :dunno:


Good one! :thumbup:

Looks like it's going to work only 4 years later  .

What incentive Alonso has to pass when he can simply cruise in 2nd and still comfortably lead the championship?


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Good one! :thumbup:
> 
> Looks like it's going to work only 4 years later  .
> 
> What incentive Alonso has to pass when he can simply cruise in 2nd and still comfortably lead the championship?


None for now. But if the same order of finish continues, he'll be a point behind after the German GP.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

This just in (both stories at PlanetF1:

*BMW's Jacques Villeneuve will suffer a ten grid-slots demotion at the Spanish GP after his engine was damaged in transit.*

The team have confirmed that Villeneuve's engine will have to be changed after the unspecified problem arose en route to the Circuit de Catalunya.

"The engine was fine after the European Grand Prix actually. During the transportation of the engine something went wrong unfortunately," a spokesperson admitted.

and...

*Several of Ferrari's rival teams intend adopting flexi-wings in the upcoming weeks, arguing that if Ferrari can use them, then they can as well.*

Ferrari's flexible wings first hit the headlines at the start of the season, but after their rivals protested, the Scuderia arrived at the Australian Grand Prix with revised wings.

However, according to Honda, these too are flexible, although the FIA claimed not, saying that the new wings were within the regulations.

This ruling has now prompted other teams to consider altering their aerodynamic wings.

"It's pretty obvious what Ferrari are doing and we're going to have to do something similar to compete," an unnamed source told _Autosport magazine._

He added: "We won't be the only team doing this, either, and you'll see the changes pretty quickly - certainly within weeks."

*Berford says: 'bout time. Sort of like the saying goes, "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me."*


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> "It's pretty obvious what Ferrari are doing and we're going to have to do something similar to compete," an unnamed source told _Autosport magazine._
> 
> He added: "We won't be the only team doing this, either, and you'll see the changes pretty quickly - certainly within weeks."


I can see this getting ugly now. The teams do this, and get penalized by the FIA, while Ferrari keeps it's head stiuck in the sand. Then all except Ferrari engine customers (Red Bull) will refuse to contest the USGP in protest. We'll be screwed again.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

The problem is, when you have the top few drivers in racing, along with the top cars, you have few mistakes to capitilize on. And a 1 second or so lap time advantage will allow you to catch up, but not to pass.

Also these drivers are driving for the championship, not particularily each race.

NASCAR includes points for leading a lpa, leading the most laps and other such stuff. That encourages the NEED to pass for teh championship points.

F1 in the 70s was worse, no pit stops, so just a train after the first corner or two.

OH, Max's spec cars will REDUCE the amount of passing, as it will take out pretty much ANY car advantage, making passing at the front pretty much a thing of the past. Of course at the back, where the drivers make more mistakes, there will still be passing,, but overall even less, because the back markers will be running cars of the same capability as the front runners, so less likly to get lapped.

As fro calling those that want to watch more passing unsophiticated, there was a smiley. If you find passing exciting, great, but there is so much more to racing.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

dwette said:


> I thought the spec ECU idea was abandoned recently.


Nope. In 2008, there will spec ECUs for all teams - unless something changes between now and 30 June.

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Motown328 said:


> I am excited!!!:thumbup:
> 
> http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/10052006/13/bmw-praise-resurgent-villeneuve.html


Untill the team dropped his engine while in transport (breaking it) and the FIA refused to allow the team to open it up and repair the damage.

JV's grid position thus drops 10 places for Sunday.

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The lap times (at the front) in today's free practice are the same as last year - Friday's times, that is. Interesting.


.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> The lap times (at the front) in today's free practice are the same as last year - Friday's times, that is. Interesting.
> 
> .


I noticed that as well, they came very close to the track record and I kinda feel it's going to be broken tomorrow in quali.

Barcelona has a lot of medium to high speed corners where I think the V8 cars can be faster than last year but there is that freaking long straight so I'm really puzzled where the speed comes from. It has to be tire development. Anyway, we have to congratulate Max the Turd on another failure.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> Anyway, we have to congratulate Max the Turd on another failure.


In his opinion, it isn't a failure because the REAL reason he forced the change to V8 engines is because he thought that they would sound better. :bigpimp:

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Great start by Räikkönen (passed 4 cars), but the Renaults are just going to drive away at the front.

I wonder if there will be any other passing ON THE TRACK. But, I am just an idiot fan that likes to see overtaking during a Formula 1 race.  


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Great! At least one pass - Spoonface passed Fisichella.

In the pits of course.

That was (as predicted) a yawner.


.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Renault committed to F1 beyond 2008 :thumbup: Now the big question is who is going to drive for them?


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

"Those numbers at the top of your screen are the number of laps that are left in the race. They are counting backwards. That's how they do it in Formula 1."

Ralph Shaheen


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Renault committed to F1 beyond 2008 :thumbup: Now the big question is who is going to drive for them?


Intersting. Wonder how Alonso feels about this, since it was reported he made the jump to McLaren becuase Renault wouldn't commit to long term participation. Not to mention McLaren is struggling compared to last year.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

When you have 4 top drivers, driving the best cars out there, there WILL be little passing. No mistakes to capitilize on. More passing back in the pack where mistakes are made and cars are a good bit different in performance.

Actually you need to watch BOTH races today.

Both?

Yeah, the Renault/Ferrari race, and the other race.  The final spacing from FA to Massa was about the same as Massa to the next car (Kimi). Those two teams are in a different league.

And for those that don't think there are team orders, wasn't it obvious that Fisi's job today was to give FA an lead over MS that couldn't be touched?


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> "Those numbers at the top of your screen are the number of laps that are left in the race. They are counting backwards. That's how they do it in Formula 1."
> 
> Ralph Shaheen


OMG, did he say that again. That makes at least 3 times in the last 4 of their, ahem, "commentaries."


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> ...
> 
> And for those that don't think there are team orders, wasn't it obvious that Fisi's job today was to give FA an lead over MS that couldn't be touched?


Will that keep him in a ride?


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

I've given up on CBS. I'm just going to stay out of this thread and wait until next weekend to watch the race in replay on Speed. At least that's one good thing about the lack of popularity of F1 in the U.S... Less chance of an accidental spoiler!

CBS should just license the Speed channel coverage. Better yet, bring a high def camera setup to the U.S.G.P. and "borrow" Varsha, Hobbs, and Matchett for a top-notch spectacle. THAT should raise interest in F1 in the U.S.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> CBS should just license the Speed channel coverage. Better yet, bring a high def camera setup to the U.S.G.P. and "borrow" Varsha, Hobbs, and Matchett for a top-notch spectacle. THAT should raise interest in F1 in the U.S.


CBS isn't doing the USGP anyway (thank God).


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> CBS should just license the Speed channel coverage. Better yet, bring a high def camera setup to the U.S.G.P. and "borrow" Varsha, Hobbs, and Matchett for a top-notch spectacle. THAT should raise interest in F1 in the U.S.


That's an excellent idea but since Fox owns Speed it won't happen. I've got an AutoX day on Sunday so I just might have to do the same thing and wait for the replay.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Mr. E said:


> CBS should just license the Speed channel coverage. Better yet, bring a high def camera setup to the U.S.G.P. and "borrow" Varsha, Hobbs, and Matchett for a top-notch spectacle. THAT should raise interest in F1 in the U.S.


Bad idea.

The problem isn't all Sheheen and Daly. If Varsha, Hobbs and Matchett were required to define every detail of what happens, they would be just as bad. "Schumacher's coming in for a pit stop. A pit stop is when they get fuel and new tires, because the tires wear out and they need new ones."

No, the biggest problem is CBS. Saw the same with ABC when they had it. (In fact, I can remember one of Senna's all-time greatest qualifying laps at Monaco in like 90 or 91... Keith "Whoa Nellie" Jackson called the race for ABC!) It's got to be the directors and the producers that keep forcing them to repeat that crap. I've seen Sheheen call WoO races and even the WRC events a couple years ago. He's not as bad as CBS makes him look.

If the CBS producers didn't make them dumb it down so much, it wouldn't sound so dumb. But they always think, "Nobody in the US knows what F1 is about, so let's educate them."

Which is flat wrong... those who know it will seek it out and don't want it watered down.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Caught a glimpse of practice yesterday and they showed an in-car from Ruebens. I immediately thought... that looks like Tony Kanaan's lid.

Indeed it was. Pretty cool.

Some fans might look surprised when they see a Honda passing by in Monaco with Tony Kanaan in it. The only thing is that it won't be the Brazilian, but his friend Rubens Barrichello wearing Kanaan's helmet in Monaco.

The pair decided the switch helmets. If there would be one race Kanaan would love to race if he could in Formula One it would have been Monaco. For Barrichello his favourite would be the Indy 500, and thus the Brazilian mates decided to switch helmets for these events.

"At the beginning of the year, I asked Kanaan, who races IRL, where he would like to race in Formula One and he told me Monaco," explained Barrichello. "That is because it makes it special. So, actually this weekend, I am racing his colours in this grand prix and I am racing in Indianapolis this weekend - there will be a car there with my colours - and this is just because Monaco is so special and I think Indianapolis is special, as well, that we swapped colours for the weekend."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I am eagerly awaiting to watch the first 15 minute session of qualifying tomorrow.

It will be hairy.


.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I am eagerly awaiting to watch the first 15 minute session of qualifying tomorrow.
> 
> It will be hairy.
> 
> .


I think they should bring Ide back just to add some ... um....excitement.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> I think they should bring Ide back just to add some ... um....excitement.


I believe I warned (several pages back [when Ide was still in the mix]) that everyone should beware of him at Monaco. It's a happy day that he isn't on the grid now. Seemed like a nice guy--just out of his league.

Go JPM.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


> I think they should bring Ide back just to add some ... um....excitement.


Probably the best thing that the FIA has done in years was to suggest that Ide be "relieved" of his duties. Especially in advanced of Monaco.

However, that wild card Sato is still out there. Kudos to him for not (yet) creating any chaos this season.

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I know some of you are down on JV and his blocking reputation and there are other drivers too that can't seem to get out of the way on any track. 

I'll bet that they take out at least one of the front runners.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm speaking of qualifying.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> I know some of you are down on JV and his blocking reputation and there are other drivers too that can't seem to get out of the way on any track.


Jarno Trulli is one driver that comes to mind. Get behind him after the start - even if your car is faster - and you are screwed.

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm glad to hear the below. I have never been a MS fan.


Schumacher unhappy with performance 

Thursday, May 25th 2006, 16:05 GMT 


Michael Schumacher admitted that the first day of practice for the Monaco Grand Prix had not gone as well as he had hoped, even though his poor lap time was partly the result of him only using one set of tyres.

The Ferrari driver ended second practice 15th overall on the timesheets and, although there are some who believe the track will favour his Bridgestone tyres the more it gets rubbered in, the seven-time champion was pretty downbeat.

"Obviously, we cannot be too happy with what we have seen so far, although the results can be partly explained by the fact we used just one set of tyres, unlike many of the other drivers," he explained. "But I'm not trying to hide the fact that the situation is not looking that good.

"At the moment we are too slow and we have to study the data to find out why. There is work to do, but we have enough experience to get out of this situation."

Teammate Felipe Massa added: "It was not an easy day for us. We have a lot of work to do to be competitive in qualifying and the race. In the two hours of free practice we worked mainly on finding the right balance on the car, as well as assessing the two types of tyre available.

"We need a tyre that gives us speed in qualifying, but also consistency for the race. Now we will study the data to find the right compromise and this time, we have a whole extra day to look at it."

Ferrari technical director Ross Brawn was more optimistic about the team's chances - and believes that the changing track would probably favour them more over the remainder of the weekend.

"Track conditions evolved rapidly during these free practice sessions and the various red flags made the situation a bit more complicated. Honestly, today we did not get the performance we were expecting from the tyres, which suffered from a slight lack of grip.

"However, the aim is for the tyres to be at their best on Saturday and Sunday, not in free practice! Actually, I'm confident the situation will improve as the track gradually offers more grip and when there will be more rubber on the racing line.

"In these conditions, I think we will be stronger than we seemed to be today. The cars worked well and their balance is pretty good. I am optimistic about the rest of the weekend."


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## Gh0sT (May 20, 2006)

Ahaha you guys sound like some of the people on the Speed TV fourms.

What is everyones perdictions for the race not driver but team wise. I got Williams as the sleeper.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Gh0sT said:


> Ahaha you guys sound like some of the people on the Speed TV fourms.
> 
> What is everyones perdictions for the race not driver but team wise. I got Williams as the sleeper.


JPM wins. Kimi gets no points. (10 for the team)
Alonso second. Fisi no points (8 for the team)
Nick third, JV fourth (11 points) BMW wisn the constructor title for Monago.

And then I woke up. It was just a dream.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

realCL23 said:


> How many times have you heard
> "The brakes are made of carbon fiber which was developed first to stop jumbo jets!"
> 
> Jumbo jet mostly slows down or stops by changing the angle of the wing flap to create drag and reverse thrusting. :tsk: They need to get fired....


Flaps allow the airplane to fly slower IN THE AIR.

Spoilers are used to reduce lift after touchdown to allow the BRAKES to work better.

Reverse thrust only is only used at the higher speed ranges where it is more effective.

Aircraft still use brakes, lots of them to stop. And don't forget about taxiing to and from the runway.

Check out the Discovery 777 series where they to the hot brake test. They intentionally overheat the brakes and park teh airplane to see what happens. They get hot enough to blow the tires (actually safety blow out plugs) and set the bearing grease on fire.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Damn. The boss of Michelin, Edouard Michelin, died in a boating accident while on a fishing trip in France yesterday.

That casts a bit of a cloud over the race this weekend.  


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Oops.

Heinz-Harald Frentzen had a little run in with the highway patrol in southern France - doing 214km/h in a 130km/h zone! :yikes: 

750 EUR later, and without his license, he made it safely to Magny-Cours. :bigpimp: 


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Good stuff so far!

One question: was the pitlane location changed last year, or is it new this year? I mean, now the entrance is right after the Rascasse corner, rather than after Anthony Noghe? :dunno: 

I missed the race last year as I recall.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Gee ... what an interesting place and amazing time for Spoonface to make a mistake ... and ruin both Renaults last qualifying runs.  

Right. :tsk: 

I am glad that race control is investigating this "incident".


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

"Steering failure"? Give me a break.


.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> "Steering failure"? Give me a break..


:stupid:


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## DustyWheeler (Apr 17, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Good stuff so far!
> 
> One question: was the pitlane location changed last year, or is it new this year? I mean, now the entrance is right after the Rascasse corner, rather than after Anthony Noghe? :dunno:
> 
> ...


I *think* it was last year:thumbup:


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## DustyWheeler (Apr 17, 2006)

Patrick said:


> "Steering failure"? Give me a break.
> 
> .


:stupid: Count me in :spank:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

DustyWheeler said:


> I *think* it was last year:thumbup:


Well, it looks much better IMHO, and there is a lot more room.

.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

"under investigation" We'll see.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


> "under investigation" We'll see.


So is an incident between car #2 and car #14. I don't know what that is about.

.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

That was vintage lame-ass from the Schum.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> That was vintage lame-ass from the Schum.


Briatore is furious. His comment to ITV: "This is exactly how Ferrari operate."

Yep.

.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

What would have happened to his times if he had caused a red flag to the session? Would he have lost his times? If that had happened earlier in the session, stopped there, they would have had to do something to remove his car. It might been a short red flag. For the pole sitter to do that with everyone else on last fliers is dubious.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

SteveT said:


> What would have happened to his times if he had caused a red flag to the session? Would he have lost his times? If that had happened earlier in the session, stopped there, they would have had to do something to remove his car. It might been a short red flag. For the pole sitter to do that with everyone else on last fliers is dubious.


Indeed.

Someone causing a red in CART rules would result the top time being thrown out. Not sure what the F1 rules are in this regard.

But... his best should be thrown out. Rules, like I said, probably don't allow for it, and I DO NOT expect the FIA or stewards to side against Ferrari.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> But... his best should be thrown out. Rules, like I said, probably don't allow for it, and I DO NOT expect the FIA or stewards to side against Ferrari.


Not a chance. No way, no how.

However, imagine what a sh!t storm would have arisen if it was Renault, or McLaren doing the same thing to Spoonface - Jean Todt would have picked up his red phone and had the Turd on the line in 3 seconds, demanding a penalty.

Good grief.

.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Not a chance. No way, no how.
> 
> However, imagine what a sh!t storm would have arisen if it was Renault, or McLaren doing the same thing to Spoonface - Jean Todt would have picked up his red phone and had the Turd on the line in 3 seconds, demanding a penalty.
> 
> ...


+1

I do not see how it can be interpreted as anything BUT intentional.

Let's see, a 7-time World Champion for some reason takes an *extremely* shallow entry to a corner unlike he had done all weekend long. Then, he locks the brake at the apex. But despite the shallow entry, he manages to get just close enough to the wall to stop... but not hit anything.

Just another skidmark on Schumi's otherwise great career. Hill, Villenueve, Shanghai last year, Monaco this year... :tsk:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Still no report from the FIA about this either.

Undoubtedly, the Turd's dingleberry press people and race officials are working out a way to polish this so that no one thinks otherwise.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Read all about it.

http://www.grandprix.com/race/r757q1report.html

_The link changed._

.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Gee ... what an interesting place and amazing time for Spoonface to make a mistake ... and ruin both Renaults last qualifying runs.
> 
> Right. :tsk:
> 
> ...


Seems to always go that way for Schumi. He makes his own "luck." What a jerk.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Intentional or not he gained advantage from it over his competitors. The question should be how much of a penalty.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The race jury just started their meeting about this 10 minutes ago.

I just saw the post-race interview and Spoonface's comments. :rofl: 


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

How ironic.

Fisi is getting a penalty for holding up Coulthard in the 3rd stage of qualifying, and still no comment from the FIA about Spoonface.

:rofl: 

I cannot believe this ...

Why is that little, 7 time champion (CBS) sh!thead so untouchable? How many times does FIAT have the make of mess of things without punishment, before anything happens to them?

WTF?

Formula 1 is a joke.


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16893.html

.


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## WAM (Jan 30, 2002)

Fisichella had his 3 best times docked for an inadvertant block on DC. MS should have his whole qualifying session docked, according to the FIA rules, that was just outrageous.

Villeneuve summed it up best saying "I hope it was deliberate, because if that was a mistake he should not even have a F1 superlicence."

"This is so obvious. When you do something on purpose like that it is very extreme. You should not be allowed to drive a race car when you do stuff like that.

"This is embarrassing. Embarrassing for a world champion. It would even be embarrassing for Ide."


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> The race jury just started their meeting about this 10 minutes ago.
> 
> I just saw the post-race interview and Spoonface's comments.


 I did too, and based on Schumi's comments, I don't buy for a second that it was an accident. Schumi said he didn't know where Alonso, etc. were on the track. That is a complete lie and utter B.S. You can't tell me that Schumi -- who is 15 points behind in the championship and hungry for a 8th title -- didn't know where Alonso was??? He knew exactly where Alonso was, he knew Alonso's sector times, and he knew he was about to loose P1. So he parked his car to block Alonso, just as Briatori claimed. And Ferrari will get away with it once again.

So Fisi gets a penalty. How ironic.

Phooey on Ferrari for being such babies and not playing fair. I really hope Schumi gets a DNF and goes 25 points behind.

Edit: well, I'll be. Schumi goes to the back of the grid. Good. I guess this one was just too blatant for the FIA to let Ferrari get away with it.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

HA!! 

I don't have Autosport, but I just saw this headline and teaser! :bigpimp:

I'm totally shocked, but here goes:

"Schumacher sent to back of the grid
The Monaco GP stewards have deleted all of Michael Schumacher's times in qualifying, sending him to the back of the grid for the race.
Villeneuve blasts old rival Schumacher
Schumacher hits back at detractors"


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Here's JV and it's nice to see someone has the cajones to call it like he sees it.

""I hope it was deliberate, because if that was a mistake he should not even have a F1 superlicence," Villeneuve raged to Autosport. "If you can make a mistake like that, you shouldn't drive a race car. There's no way you could make a mistake like that.

"It's the kind of thing I couldn't dream of doing myself. I don't know what goes through your mind when you decide to do that, when you know that the rest of the world can see. I don't understand it, it's stupid.

"It shows that you can only give the benefit of the doubt to someone so many times. Sometimes it makes you realise that every time it happens there is a reason behind it.

"He didn't need to do that, he's a seven times world champion, he was on pole position. Why do that? It's only going to make him look bad."

"This is so obvious. When you do something on purpose like that it is very extreme. You should not be allowed to drive a race car when you do stuff like that.

"This is embarrassing. Embarrassing for a world champion. It would even be embarrassing for Ide."


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## DustyWheeler (Apr 17, 2006)

Just flicked through my 3 favourite F1 sites. F1 Live, who are usually a little behind with latest times, have the news. Crash.net have the news. The OfficialF1 website still says Schu on "Controversial" pole....... Haven't they heard ?


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Here's the quote from the stewards as shown on Atlas. Both Ferrari's at the back.



> "Having compared all relevant data, the stewards can find no justifiable reason for the driver to have braked with such undue, excessive and unusual pressure at this part of the circuit, and are therefore left with no alternatives but to conclude that the driver deliberately stopped his car on the circuit in the last few minutes of qualifying, at a time at which he had thus far set the fastest laptime."
> 
> The stewards said this was in breach of the 2006 Formula One sporting regulations, Article 116***185;, "and hence a driving infringement."
> 
> Therefore, the stewards have "accordingly directed that the qualifying times of Michael Schumacher be deleted. The effect of this is that he will start from the back of the grid."


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

A Canadian site has it up. Here

I've never been a big MS fan but this is really kind of sad to watch. It looked like a desperate move. Maybe he should have hung it up before embarrassing himself like this.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

More:

Michael Schumacher was roundly condemned here Saturday after his Pole Position performance at the Monaco Grand Prix left many believing he had set out to deliberately wreck rival Fernando Alonso's hopes of overhauling him.

Triple World Champion Sir Jackie Stewart, a seasoned and respected observer of Formula One, was one of many who said he felt the German's actions were deliberate, unsporting and disappointing.

***8220;When I saw that, I said 'that wasn't an accident'. I have never seen anything like it before. I have never seen anyone have the presence of mind to do it. It might have been different if he had taken off the front wing. Alonso had Pole Position and I think that the Schumacher debacle was unfortunate and I don't think it should have happened. I have to say I believe it was a deliberate maneuver.***8221;

Jacques Villeneuve, who nearly lost the 1997 drivers World Championship when he was hit by Schumacher at the decisive season-ending European Grand Prix at Jerez, said he also thought it was a deliberate and cynical move.

"You cannot win seven World Championships and do that. It is unacceptable," said Villeneuve.
"It shows that every time in the past that he has done something like that - and people have given him the benefit of the doubt - that it was obvious."

Juan Pablo Montoya, a former winner of the Monaco Grand Prix, who has often clashed with Schumacher in the past, said: "Michael screwed everybody up at the end. There was a lot of traffic and everybody was looking out for themselves and nobody else. I don't think I have to comment on it, but I have to say I will be amazed if he gets away with it."

And, he added: "Most of us were really fair."

Team-mate Finn Kimi Raikkonen was equally upset. "I don't think it was very nice to do that as everybody could see that there was nothing wrong. He got yellow flags for everyone and he should get a penalty."


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

:bustingup :banana: :clap: :thumbup: 

Awesome, for once, the stewards got it right. Eat it Schumi.  :rofl:


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I'm sure many of you heard Bob Varsha say the Schumi has a history of this kind of thing in Karting and F3. He didn't offer any details, so it's hard to say it has happened before.


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## WAM (Jan 30, 2002)

SteveT said:


> I'm sure many of you heard Bob Varsha say the Schumi has a history of this kind of thing in Karting and F3. He didn't offer any details, so it's hard to say it has happened before.


Yup, I heard that too. He's done that before in F1 too, knocking Hill off, and winning the championship by default.

I am glad that the stewards had the guts to make the right decision and not give MS the usual leeway on rules.


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

WILLIA///M said:


> A Canadian site has it up. Here
> 
> I've never been a big MS fan but this is really kind of sad to watch. It looked like a desperate move. Maybe he should have hung it up before embarrassing himself like this.


I agree................I am not a big MS fan either - but after Senna and JM Fangio, he is one of the best F1 drivers in history. It's too bad because this is the type of thing that people remember.

When I saw it both times on Speed and TSN within 15 minutes it did look a bit odd. But I wasn't sure.

MS's mannerisms in the post qualifying interviews however sealed the deal. He stuttered through and clearly was trying too hard to be casual about it.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

JG said:


> MS's mannerisms in the post qualifying interviews however sealed the deal. He stuttered through and clearly was trying too hard to be casual about it.


:stupid: He was not his usual glib self... you could tell he was thinking to himself "Must not sound like I am lying... must not sound like I am lying... :doh: ")

Another sad thing about this is that if Alonso wins tomorrow, it will be somewhat hollow, unless someone else is able to hang with him and give him a run for his money... :dunno:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

PWN3D0RZ.

I'm so glad they busted him for that BS. What a major-league douchebag.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

And a typical reaction from Ferrari:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns16892.html

I am still waiting for someone to try to defend Spoonface's actions ... 

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*I love to beat a dead horse*

After a little research, I have produced a quick list of Spoonface's history of cracking under pressure - these are race incidents, and this is just a partial list.

*Macao, 1990:* leading the F3 race there and makes a mistake, Mika Häkkinen makes a move to overtake as a result of Spoonface's error, Spoonface cuts off Häkkinen, crashing in to him, Häkkinen's car hits the wall and he DNF

*Silverstone, 1994:* passes Damon Hill on the warm-up lap, and then refuses to acknowledge that he has been black flagged for the "incident"

*Adelaide, 1994:* crashes into Damon Hill while leading the race, DNF, but wins his first world championship anyway as Hill retires due to the "incident" with Spoonface

*Montreal, 1997:* comes out of the pit lane, back onto the track, directly in front of Heinz-Harald Frentzen, forcing Frentzen off the track, resulting crash leaves Frentzen as DNF

*Jerez, 1997:* diliberately crashes into Jacques Villeneuve, which would have given the championship to Spoonface. Both DNF, Villeneuve wins his first and only world championship

*Silverstone, 1998:* passes Alexander Wurz in a corner that is under caution while the SC is on the track, race stewards give Spoonface a stop and go penalty, but he refuses to come to the pits to serve the penalty until the final lap, wins the race crossing the finish line on pit lane

*Spa, 2000:* forces Mika Häkkinen off the track at 320km/h after Häkkinen attempts to overtake Spoonface once through Eau Rouge

*Silverstone, 2004:* prevents Fernando Alonso's overtaking move at 330km/h, knocking Alonso off (he does finish the race)

Of course, there are the incidents at two different races at Indy, the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix farce/sham, and undoubtedly there are others.

.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

When will you guys figure out this is BIG business. Don't expect "sproting" from ANYONE on track, and yes, the otehrs have done things also. But this is not racing for a pewter cup, it means BIG BUCKS, and just like most big businesses, fair play is NOT what you will actually find, no matter what people say.

As for Schumi knew or did not know, have you ever driven a race course trying to qualify? DO you know how much concentration you are using? Do you know how little intrudes? Nope, most if not all of you do not.

Yeah, maybe he did something screwy, maybe on purpose, maybe not. It happened, he got penalized, and thats how the game goes.

Of course those of you who condemn F1 for no excitment can't handle any excitement.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Oh, this is rich. :rofl: 

I just saw an interview with the Turd about this "scandal" from qualifying. He disagrees with all the comments made by other drivers, team bosses and the media, that Spoonface did this on purpose to slow the competition down. In the Turd's opinion, Spoonface made a small driving mistake, nothing else. It was not an attempt to cheat.

:tsk: :tsk: :tsk: 

You have got to be kidding me.

In another interview, Willi Weber said that the real scandal in all of this is the fact that Spoonface was sanctioned by the race stewards.  

Spoonface has "too many enemies in the sport, and there are many that hate him."

No sh!t!


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> When will you guys figure out this is BIG business. Don't expect "sproting" from ANYONE on track, and yes, the otehrs have done things also. But this is not racing for a pewter cup, it means BIG BUCKS, and just like most big businesses, fair play is NOT what you will actually find, no matter what people say.
> 
> As for Schumi knew or did not know, have you ever driven a race course trying to qualify? DO you know how much concentration you are using? Do you know how little intrudes? Nope, most if not all of you do not.
> 
> ...


I was wondering how long it would be before you chimed in to tell us that we don't know what we are talking about.

Thanks!

.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> I was wondering how long it would be before you chimed in to tell us that we don't know what we are talking about.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> .


+1

And don't compare qualifying for any other grass-roots racing to F1 or any top-flight series. A seven-time world champion can and does put the car wherever he wants, knows what it's going to do, etc. Little mistakes? Yes. Maybe even a spin on a tricky higher-speed corner? Sure. But not at that spot.

To do what he did... I don't think you'd see an error like that in Formula Atlantic for God's sake.

So why not hear from a few people who know a bit more about racing than you or I, Pinecone?

Keke Rosberg: "The cheapest, dirtiest thing I have ever seen in Formula One. He should leave F1 and go home. This really brings our sport down. If I was him I would retire in shame."

Flavio Briatore: "I know he cheated. I think he is taking everyone for a ride. Someone who was seven times a world champion wants us to believe that he didn't do it on purpose - it's fairyland. And given that we are not Snow White and the Seven Dwarves I think that what he did was unsporting and against everything. It's really astonishing what he did. Incredible."

Jenson Button: "It was too obvious. Everybody who knows anything about Formula One knows it was done on purpose. What happened wasn't an accident."

Jarno Trulli: "Just look at the TV pictures and you can clearly see he has parked the car."

Martin Brundle: "Michael's reputation is sadly such that nobody was ready to give him the benefit of the doubt. I wasn't comfortable he was telling the truth in the press conference. He said he was on a lap that was "hop or stop", which I presume to be the equivalent of "nip and tuck" and that is not correct. His middle sector was slow. He knows the car will switch itself off after 10 seconds if you don't cancel the anti-stall. On-board footage clearly showed him turning away from the racing line."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I cannot watch Formula 1 races with Greek commentary. I think that CBS would be better.


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I cannot watch Formula 1 races with Greek commentary. I think that CBS would be better.
> 
> .


Too bad. Nothing could be worse. Anyway, the progression of BMW points now stands at 1, 2, 3. Nice trend.


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## WileECoyote (May 7, 2003)

I watch the races on my Tivo, fast forwarded. Not really much to say, but I am a bit bored of them as of late.


At least CBS broadcasts in HiDef...


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

WileECoyote said:


> At least CBS broadcasts in HiDef...


They do? Not in my area. I have HDTV and I get CBS's picture in the 4:3 aspect ratio (with the black bars on either side of the picture).

I thought all F1 TV broadcasts were not in HDTV since "Bernievision" died a couple years ago...something about F1 being aired in so many countries, and most of those countries having very few HDTV sets.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

PhilH said:


> They do? Not in my area. I have HDTV and I get CBS's picture in the 4:3 aspect ratio (with the black bars on either side of the picture).
> 
> I thought all F1 TV broadcasts were not in HDTV since "Bernievision" died a couple years ago...something about F1 being aired in so many countries, and most of those countries having very few HDTV sets.


No HD here, either.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

WileECoyote said:


> I watch the races on my Tivo, fast forwarded. Not really much to say, but I am a bit bored of them as of late.
> 
> At least CBS broadcasts in HiDef...


CBS only gets a standard def feed. If you're watching F1 on the CBS HD broadcast, it's still just the standard def content, but upconverted. There is no HD feed for F1 races.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Watched the recording last night after I got home. Overall, :yawn: . Also, I never thought I would say this but Danny Sullivan was actually an upgrade for the CBS crew at Monaco.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> Watched the recording last night after I got home. Overall, :yawn: . Also, I never thought I would say this but Danny Sullivan was actually an upgrade for the CBS crew at Monaco.


I will have to say Derek Daly was his least annoying. I don't think I cringed painfully that often.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

WILLIA///M said:


> Watched the recording last night after I got home. Overall, :yawn: . Also, I never thought I would say this but Danny Sullivan was actually an upgrade for the CBS crew at Monaco.


:stupid:

Sullivan was better than I expected too.

Daly is too reminiscent of Paul "The Toad" Page... "Oh, look at (insert name)!!" With Page, it used to be "Oh, look at Little Al!!!!" Derek usual pulls out "Oh, look at Raikkonen!!!" Or something like that.

Someone needs to slap them with a mackerel.

At least CBS is done for the year...

Now, onto the races... Alonso is just toying with everyone. Sort of like Schumi when the car was the class of the field.

One other thing that strikes me about this season... McLaren looks pretty average, with occasional flashes (Monaco). While that is obvious, does anyone think the reason they look average is the softer tires/tire changes again for this year? To me, it seems like their spotty form is *very* reminiscent of every recent year but 2005, when making the tire last the whole race was the order of the day. McLaren had a handle on that, but seems to be somewhat lost again with the softer tires.

Or it could be the departure of Newey, etc, that has been mentioned before. But the tire angle strikes me as the biggest issue.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

racerdave said:


> Daly is too reminiscent of Paul "The Toad" Page... "Oh, look at (insert name)!!" With Page, it used to be "Oh, look at Little Al!!!!" Derek usual pulls out "Oh, look at Raikkonen!!!" Or something like that.


Whenever they would show Heidfeld, I'd yell out "Quick Nick" and sure enough, Derek would echo me shortly thereafter with a coment about "Quick Nick"... :tsk:

And enough about the "kairbs" already...


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Salvator said:


> Whenever they would show Heidfeld, I'd yell out "Quick Nick" and sure enough, Derek would echo me shortly thereafter with a coment about "Quick Nick"... :tsk:
> 
> And enough about the "kairbs" already...


That's "crashing over the kairbs." What a joke.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

berford said:


> That's "crashing over the kairbs." What a joke.


There's a nice interview with Robert Kubica at Formula1.com: http://www.formula1.com/news/4500.html


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Courtesy of GrandPrix.com:
"JUNE 20, 2006 
*When is a flexi-wing not a flexi-wing?*

Flexibility is one of the attributes of a modern Formula 1 technical director - and, apparently, a talent also for the rule-makers who seem to be happy to change interpretations of the rules at will in their never-ending quest to keeps the racing teams under control. The latest twist in the regulations is the introduction from Canada of separators between the planes of the rear wings in order to stop these gaps from closing up when the wings are under loading. That reduces the drag and makes the cars move faster through the air and thus gives cars with flexible wings an advantage on race tracks where the straights are sufficiently long to create the downforce necessary to make the wings flex. With the downforce measured in tons, it is impossible for the FIA to test such things in the pitlane and so another solution had to be found.
But there are still ways that wings can be made to flex, even with the separators between the planes of the wings. The new rule does not stop, for example, stop teams from making the wings sink backwards at high speed and thus achieve the same decrease in drag at high speeds.
All things considered, the line-up in Canada will be interesting as we will see who is where on the new playing field that is being created. In particular the efforts of Ferrari and BMW will be watched closely as both were well advanced in the science of the flexi-wings, having interpreted the rules in the same way as the FIA in the early part of the season."

Looks like bad news for Schumi for the rest of the season.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Kubica was at the top of the time sheets for both practice sessions today. Looks like a good start for some more points this weekend for BMW.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> Kubica was at the top of the time sheets for both practice sessions today. Looks like a good start for some more points this weekend for BMW.


 You have to remember that these test drivers don't have to worry about protecting the engine/car for the race. They can push much harder than the race drivers, so performance doesn't always translate to quali/race times. With that said, BMW has been impressive foe their first year of owning the Sauber team.

We'll be at Indy next week cheering them on.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

dwette said:


> You have to remember that these test drivers don't have to worry about protecting the engine/car for the race. They can push much harder than the race drivers, so performance doesn't always translate to quali/race times.


Thank you for the CBS announce team F1 for dummies impression.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> Thank you for the CBS announce team F1 for dummies impression.


 What's your problem? Have a bad day? 
You're the one who drew the conclusion of race points based on the test driver.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

dwette said:


> What's your problem? Have a bad day?
> You're the one who drew the conclusion of race points based on the test driver.


Back to the point at hand...the BMWs look like they'll both be in the points at the halfway point.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

WTF was Ralf doing today?  
We had a chance for both BMWs finishing in the points!


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Too bad Patrick is still in Greece, I'd love to hear what his local press says about Kimi's possible move to Renault.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> I was just kidding. [And isn't that trioval?]


roaval = part oval, part road course
I run at Gateway International Raceway, which is also a roaval.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Danica drove a Ferrari in the ALMS a few years ago. I've heard that she would have been part of the PTG team if they had run the M3 GTR in 2002. She had tested the car and the were very impressed.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

SteveT said:


> Danica drove a Ferrari in the ALMS a few years ago. I've heard that she would have been part of the PTG team if they had run the M3 GTR in 2002. She had tested the car and the were very impressed.


No doubt, Danica can drive. The quesiton would be, is she, can she be, good enough for F1 and physically up to the task. But the other question is: what's her F1 marketability. The answer to the latter is obvious, providing she can do a decent job of it. (Don't need another Ide on the course, no matter how marketable they are.)


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

dwette said:


> They're going to run that at Magny Cours. After that they'll mount the crossbow, and take out the leaders in subsequent races.


I originally thought you were joking all around. But I see you're not...they are indeed running it at Magny Cours. And Robert blew away the competition again in Friday practice.

Q. It seems like it would be a significant visual restriction. No?


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> ...And Robert blew away the competition again in Friday practice.


So they already mounted crossbows then? :rofl:


berford said:


> Q. It seems like it would be a significant visual restriction. No?


No, I think it probably obstructs a negible part of the field of view. But it is fugly.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

And now McLaren style horns too.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

berford said:


> No doubt, Danica can drive. The quesiton would be, is she, can she be, good enough for F1 and physically up to the task. But the other question is: what's her F1 marketability. The answer to the latter is obvious, providing she can do a decent job of it. (Don't need another Ide on the course, no matter how marketable they are.)


Right. There were questions about her ability to stand up to the g's on the ovals, but she's done that. There will always be doubt until she (or someone else) establishes that a woman can be competitive at the highest levels. It hasn't happened yet, but some of the ladies are making progress.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Sounds like both Spoonface (engine fire in the pits this morning) and Rosberg (telemetry suggests that an engine failure is coming) will have to change engines before qualifying.

Both BMW cars were again fastest this morning. It can't simply be those new horns, or? :dunno: 


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Good grief, the Hondas suck. Rubens P14 and Button P19? Ouch.


.


----------



## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

Italy 2 France 0 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Time for Alonzo to headbutt Michael!


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I am expecting an extremely boring race.


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I just woke up again. Is the parade over?


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

:rofl: 














Anyone? :dunno: 


 


.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

The best part of the race coverage on Speed were interviews that Peter Windsor did with DC and Klien. They both took shots at JPM about his weight (he struggled to stay fit ever since he came to F1). McMonty :rofl: 




Kimi's pass of Trulli was the most and sadly the only exciting part of the race


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I caught the part of Nascar Race Day on Speed later on where Montoya was called the next best driver to come to Nascar since Tony Stewart. He will look like Smoke in less than a year... :rofl:


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

French GP = :yawn:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> French GP = :yawn:


:stupid:

.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

racerdave said:


> French GP = :yawn:


+2


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

Highlight of the weekend was Q3.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

racerdave said:


> French GP = :yawn:


But it was still better than watching a bunch of people driving ugly cars around a circle for 3 hours.


----------



## Robsa (Jan 20, 2005)

dwette said:


> But it was still better than watching a bunch of people driving ugly cars around a circle for 3 hours.


Don't be a hater now. Next year when you're watching JPM you will see its more than a bunch of ******** going in circles. NASCAR is a drivers circuit. F1 is all about qualifying.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Robsa said:


> Don't be a hater now. Next year when you're watching JPM you will see its more than a bunch of ******** going in circles. NASCAR is a drivers circuit. F1 is all about qualifying.


You make a false assumption: I will not be watching JPM next year. I've watched NASCAR in the past. Boring...I just don't get it...never have. Not when I was 10...and not now several decades later. When JPM's first televised NASCAR race comes around, I won't be tuned in. Frankly, I don't care that NASCAR has JPM now. It's not going to draw me in as a fan.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

NASCAR is much more exciting to watch than F1 IMO... after the standing start it is follow the leader.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

dwette said:


> But it was still better than watching a bunch of people driving ugly cars around a circle for 3 hours.


:thumbup:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Robsa said:


> F1 is all about qualifying.


IMO, Formula One is all about tyres.

.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

AC said:


> Italy 2 France 0 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
> 
> Time for Alonzo to headbutt Michael!


I don't think Alonzo would do that (the F1 comparative, that is.) But I think we all know that if Michael were in the same position he would somehow figure out how to prevent his chief competitor from scoring any points. If Michael somehow gets the lead in points, watch out. One big question, I think, is how cooperative Massa would be under those circumstances.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> NASCAR is much more exciting to watch than F1 IMO... after the standing start it is follow the leader.


Then you should watch NASCAR. But if anyone wants to convince me NASCAR is better than F1 then plan for an exercise in futility. And if NASCAR is so much better, why is its worldwide audience only 5% that of F1?


----------



## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

Robsa said:


> NASCAR is a drivers circuit. F1 is all about qualifying.


I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective. NASCAR is all about avoiding the crashes early in the race so you can let the last few yellow flags bunch up the leaders to make for an exciting finish. F1 is all about driving at the limit for the entire race. You can't count on a full course caution to let you catch up.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Interesting that during qualifying, Räikkönen's engine was turning 20000 RPM, whereas during the race, it maxed out at 18500 RPM. Obviously, at the end (after his 2nd pit stop fiasco) he was not going to catch Ralf, and the same engine will be used at Hockenheim, so there was no point to hit the higher revs.


.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Interesting that during qualifying, Räikkönen's engine was turning 20000 RPM, whereas during the race, it maxed out at 18500 RPM. Obviously, at the end (after his 2nd pit stop fiasco) he was not going to catch Ralf, and the same engine will be used at Hockenheim, so there was no point to hit the higher revs.
> 
> .


...and that's why the engine rule sucks.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

dwette said:


> Then you should watch NASCAR. But if anyone wants to convince me NASCAR is better than F1 then plan for an exercise in futility. And if NASCAR is so much better, why is its worldwide audience only 5% that of F1?


I could care less if you like NASCAR.

I like all racing, Motorcycle, Indy, SCCA, dirt track, drag, Le Mans type, go cart... for me anyways F1 is way down on the list as far as watching a actual race on TV.

NASCAR is run only in the US at this time, with one Busch series race in Mexico.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> ...and that's why the engine rule sucks.


You said a mouthful there.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> I like all racing, Motorcycle, Indy, SCCA, dirt track, drag, Le Mans type, go kart... for me anyways F1 is way down on the list as far as watching a actual race on TV.


:stupid:
(plus an edit on kart  )

PS - The finish from the last Moto GP race was nutty... could throw a blanket over the top 4 across the line.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

racerdave said:


> :stupid:
> (plus an edit on kart  )
> 
> PS - The finish from the last Moto GP race was nutty... could throw a blanket over the top 4 across the line.


Once again the MotoGP is the best racing you can find :thumbup:


----------



## Robsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Patrick said:


> IMO, Formula One is all about tyres.
> 
> .


Thats what my Dad always says when we talk about F1.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

racerdave said:


> :stupid:
> (plus an edit on kart  )
> 
> PS - The finish from the last Moto GP race was nutty... could throw a blanket over the top 4 across the line.


I wish ESPN and SpeedTV would show more Karting... it is really fun to watch.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

BTW racerdave, I think I read you drive karts. 

I would like to get my granddaughter into Karting within the next couple of years, she is 3 soon to be 4. Any suggestions on where to buy a Kart, and if there are any organizations in the Illinois area that has a class for 4-5 year olds?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Robsa said:


> Thats what my Dad always says when we talk about F1.


Then he has probably told you that that will all change next year, thanks to the brain trust that the FIA is these days. But who knows, maybe it will be a good thing - at least for FIAT it will be.

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Interesting.*

Flavio's contract with Renault ends this year. Could HE replace Bernie and run the show?

That is the latest rumor up here.

.


----------



## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Flavio's contract with Renault ends this year. Could HE replace Bernie and run the show?
> 
> That is the latest rumor up here.
> 
> .


Wow, that'd be pretty sweet. You know Flav would be all about the technical flash--none of this "money saving" crap. :rofl: I guess he wouldn't have much input on rule changes though since it's outside of the purvey of FOM.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> Wow, that'd be pretty sweet. You know Flav would be all about the technical flash--none of this "money saving" crap. :rofl: I guess he wouldn't have much input on rule changes though since it's outside of the purvey of FOM.


Well, if Flav takes over, I'm definitely paying more attention to the grid girls.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> BTW racerdave, I think I read you drive karts.
> 
> I would like to get my granddaughter into Karting within the next couple of years, she is 3 soon to be 4. Any suggestions on where to buy a Kart, and if there are any organizations in the Illinois area that has a class for 4-5 year olds?


I know there are a few tracks... there's one in Norway, IL. Might be a good place to check out. Badger west of Milwaukee gets quite a few Chicago-area folks too. I'd definitely check out the Badger forum and ask around for ideas... those folks will definitely be able to point you in the right direction.

http://www.badgerkartclub.com


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

racerdave said:


> I know there are a few tracks... there's one in Norway, IL. Might be a good place to check out. Badger west of Milwaukee gets quite a few Chicago-area folks too. I'd definitely check out the Badger forum and ask around for ideas... those folks will definitely be able to point you in the right direction.
> 
> http://www.badgerkartclub.com


Thanks.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Artslinger said:


> Thanks.


No problem. I know the "Kid Kart" class at Badger... the kids have to be 5.

I'll see if my son has any interest (will be 5 next year), but I might wait until 7 or 8... just a little bit older and mature then... in comparison to a 5 year old, who might find playing in the sandbox more enjoyable.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

racerdave said:


> No problem. I know the "Kid Kart" class at Badger... the kids have to be 5.
> 
> I'll see if my son has any interest (will be 5 next year), but I might wait until 7 or 8... just a little bit older and mature then... in comparison to a 5 year old, who might find playing in the sandbox more enjoyable.


Yeah, it will take me a year or two to save up to buy all the gear and Kart.

I'm thinking of buying a used setup, for a kid that may or may not show a long term interest.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

So, de la Rosa will at least be driving at Hockenheim - although not yet confirmed by McLaren, it seems clear after Pedro's 7th place in France. We will see what happens after that.


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


>


*BANNED by the FIA today.*

In the name of safety - any verticle wings on the front of any car are now a no go because they block the driver's field of vision.

Yep.

.


----------



## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Patrick said:


> *BANNED by the FIA today.*
> 
> In the name of safety - any verticle wings on the front of any car are now a no go because they block the driver's field of vision.
> 
> ...


Whatever. If the drivers say there's no impedence to visibility, then that should be enough. Those fins were god-awfully ugly, but they seemed to be effective. Why doesn't the FIA just give all the teams the same chassis and eliminate technical innovation altogether.

-MrB


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

mrbelk said:


> Why doesn't the FIA just give all the teams the same chassis and eliminate technical innovation altogether.


We are not far away from that.

Then the sport will safe, inexpensive and environmentally clean.

.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> *BANNED by the FIA today.*
> 
> In the name of safety - any verticle wings on the front of any car are now a no go because they block the driver's field of vision.
> 
> ...


SO... if you connect them together, would they still be considered a "vertical wing"? Seems like there would be all sorts of wiggle room in that statement... If they were beneficial, I'm sure BMW will try to keep them in some form or another... :dunno:


----------



## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Salvator said:


> SO... if you connect them together, would they still be considered a "vertical wing"? Seems like there would be all sorts of wiggle room in that statement... If they were beneficial, I'm sure BMW will try to keep them in some form or another... :dunno:


From reading the bits of the FIA statement on the ITV-F1 site, the ruling was also to put the kabash on other teams doing the same thing. Heaven forbid that the "pinnacle of motorsport" be allowed to innovate anything.

-MrB


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

mrbelk said:


> Heaven forbid that the "pinnacle of motorsport" be allowed to innovate anything.


Gripe here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131132

:bigpimp:

.


----------



## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> *BANNED by the FIA today.*
> 
> In the name of safety - any verticle wings on the front of any car are now a no go because they block the driver's field of vision.
> 
> Yep.


Now maybe "in the name of safety" they'll make Ferrari move their side mirrors back close enough to the driver to be useable. :angel:

It is quite sad the way F1 innovation gets squashed these days. I have to give my team major kudos for trying it though! :thumbup:


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Oh well. They were ungainly looking anyway. Not as ugly as the tusks on the Williams 2 years ago though.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Bump.

:eeps: 


.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Bump.
> 
> :eeps: .


Go Kimi.:thumbup:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I think that it was just a light fuel load in order to get pole for their home GP.

IF Kimi actually finishes the race (he has never made it to the finish line at Hockenheim), my guess would be P5.  


.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I think that it was just a light fuel load in order to get pole for their home GP.
> 
> IF Kimi actually finishes the race (he has never made it to the finish line at Hockenheim), my guess would be P5.
> 
> .


He set the pole in his first run on fresh tires and still had enough fuel for another attempt. It tells me that the car is quick enough to finish on podium, IF he finishes the race, of course...

Kimi could be a spoiler in this championship, I hope he wins tomorrow.


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

F1Crazy said:


> He set the pole in his first run on fresh tires and still had enough fuel for another attempt. It tells me that the car is quick enough to finish on podium, IF he finishes the race, of course...
> 
> Kimi could be a spoiler in this championship, I hope he wins tomorrow.


I wonder what would happen had he not gone off the track on his last lap in Q3. I don't recall his sector times but if it was a 1:13 something lap, he's definitely got a quick car.

It's good to see a McLaren on pole again and I too hope he wins tomorrow.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

armaq said:


> I wonder what would happen had he not gone off the track on his last lap in Q3. I don't recall his sector times but if it was a 1:13 something lap, he's definitely got a quick car.
> 
> It's good to see a McLaren on pole again and I too hope he wins tomorrow.


He said in post-qualifying interview that he was slower at that point than on his fastest lap so he took a risk and it didn't work out.

He was very quick at the last test at Jerez and McLaren brought completely new wing design that helps with understeer that everyone is complaining about at Hockenheim.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I hope this is not indication of things to come :eeps: 

When Alonso was winning Schumi was right behind him making things semi interesting, we now have summer brake in testing and at least 2 races that are gonna be hot so it looks very likely that nobody will challenge Ferraris.


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

F1Crazy said:


> I hope this is not indication of things to come :eeps:
> 
> When Alonso was winning Schumi was right behind him making things semi interesting, we now have summer brake in testing and at least 2 races that are gonna be hot so it looks very likely that nobody will challenge Ferraris.


Renault seems to put the blame on Michelin every time they lose a race - not a good sign if you ask me.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

That mass damper they keep talking about on Speed must have something to do with Renault's decline in performance but it does look like Bridgestone definitely has the upper hand now.


----------



## Gh0sT (May 20, 2006)

WILLIA///M said:


> That mass damper they keep talking about on Speed must have something to do with Renault's decline in performance but it does look like Bridgestone definitely has the upper hand now.


Beyond that, why is the R26 having problems with the rear tire? No other Mich team, has or reported any kind of blister problems...This is interesting.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

This is what makes racing so interesting; no matter the lead you may have you never celebrate victory until the checkered flag. 

Who would have thought after the first third of the season Schumacher had a chance at the drivers title or even Ferrari having a shot at the constructor title?

Boy BMW is stinking it up in F1.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

And all the BMW bosses were there for the race ... only to see their two drivers shunt each other. :rofl: 


.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I realize this is kind of a transition year for BMW but with their budget there is no excuse for the awful performance this season. People need to be replaced.


----------



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I am not enjoying the turn the season has taken at all. I was actually ticked off watching the red cars pull away from the pack yesterday.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> I realize this is kind of a transition year for BMW but with their budget there is no excuse for the awful performance this season. People need to be replaced.


This was sort of funny:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17240.html

.


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

Patrick said:


> This was sort of funny:
> 
> http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17240.html
> 
> .


*BMW Sauber F1 Team - Test driver Kubica replaces Villeneuve in Budapest. *
Press release, 08/01/2006

Munich/Hinwil, 1st August 2006. The BMW Sauber F1 Team will take their place on the grid for the Hungarian Grand Prix in Budapest this coming weekend with a different driver line-up. After his accident at the German Grand Prix last weekend Canadian driver Jacques Villeneuve will not be racing. Test and reserve driver Robert Kubica will take his place. He will be the first Pole ever to contest a Formula One grand prix.

BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen said: "Jacques has informed us that he is not ready to race after his Hockenheim accident. Robert has made an outstanding impression with the team so far, both in testing and on the Friday of the race weekends. Now we will see how he performs in a Formula One race. However, we have not yet made a decision on who will drive the car either in the remaining races of the season or next year."

21-year-old Kubica is looking forward to the new challenge: "I had prepared myself for a whole year without actually competing in any races, so I'm even happier to get this opportunity. And I'm proud that the BMW Sauber F1 Team has such confidence in me. I'm determined not to let them down."


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Based on how things have gone so far, it can't hurt to try something new.

Yet another failed Formula One season for Jack. :flush: 


.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Yet another failed Formula One season for Jack. :flush:
> .


Ehhh, he can join Montoya over at NASCAR... :rofl:


http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/27901/


----------



## carland (Oct 6, 2005)

It looks like a failed and, possibly, terminated season for JV. Who knows where he's goin' (NASCAR?)... but it looks like he'll be moving soon. I doubt it's only JV that wants him to sit out.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/30083/


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Good riddance!

It can't get any worse for BMW. Unless Sato or Ide joins them next year.


.


----------



## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

Patrick said:


> It can't get any worse for BMW. Unless Sato or Ide joins them next year.
> .


 :rofl:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I think that there may be a similarity between Villeneuve being shown the door and Montoya being sent packing to Miami.

When Montoya took out Räikkönen and a bunch of other drivers at the US Grand Prix, all of the European and North American Diamler Chrysler big wigs were in attendance with champagne glasses in hand. A few days later, Montoya is replaced by de la Rosa.

At the German Grand Prix, Jack hits Nick in front of all of the BMW bosses and at the BMW "home" GP. Fast forward two days, and Kubica replaces Villeneuve. David Richards is probably laughing his ass off now.

We can only hope that the Toyota, Honda and Super Aguri drivers watch out for their teammates when the Formula One circus heads to Suzuka in October!

:bigpimp: 


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

And now that Alex Wurz is driving with Nico Rosberg for Williams Lexus/Toyota in 2007, where does that put Mark Webber? :dunno: 

Red Bull? Renault? McLaren?

Interesting.


.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Based on how things have gone so far, it can't hurt to try something new.
> 
> Yet another failed Formula One season for Jack. :flush:
> 
> .


He's got a ton of money to show for it too. He made more money losing races (before BMW) than many did winning races.

Poor Jacque.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> And now that Alex Wurz is driving with Nico Rosberg for Williams Lexus/Toyota in 2007, where does that put Mark Webber? :dunno:
> 
> Red Bull? Renault? McLaren?
> 
> Interesting.


BMW, as JV's replacement.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Also worth remembering is that Flavio is Mark's agent.


.


----------



## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Well, we're all assuming that Jacques is on the way out, but I have to say that up until Canada he'd really been impressing me this season. I don't know if he had really come to grips with modern F1 and is just on a string of bad luck lately, or if he just lucked out the first part of the season. 

I am looking forward to seeing if Kubica can translate his excellent Friday driving to a good race drive! :thumbup:

Oh, and if Kimi ends up going to Renault, there's no way that Webber will land a job with them (even with Flav as his agent)... Unless Webber wants to be the team test driver. :rofl:


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

dwette said:


> BMW, as JV's replacement.


:thumbup:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Webber or Kovalainen will drive with Fisichella next year. Whoever doesn't get the seat with Renault, will drive for Red Bull or ... STR. :eeps: 

Räikkönen will be wearing red next season.

That is my pre-Hungaroring Grand Prix prediction. :bigpimp: 


.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

I'm still thinking Webber goes to BMW. His father is being quoted as saying he has a deal that could be announced next week. Mario T. already has experience with him from being at Williams when he was paired with, hmmm... Heidfeld. BMW needs to spend some money and get after it. That's my prediction.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick, wouldn't you want to wear red for the next five seasons for 32 million euros a year?


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> I'm still thinking Webber goes to BMW. His father is being quoted as saying he has a deal that could be announced next week. Mario T. already has experience with him from being at Williams when he was paired with, hmmm... Heidfeld. BMW needs to spend some money and get after it. That's my prediction.


I don't see a reason why would BMW want to sign Webber :dunno: He wants big bucks and spending money on a driver shouldn't be BMW's priority, that money is better invested on development. They have a great experienced driver in Heidfeld and young gun Kubica who not only is quick but is giving them great feedback in testing. 
Webber has shown that he can be very quick, he is definitely capable of winning races but his performances are not consistent and he was beaten by his rookie teammate on a few occasions.

When it comes to drivers you get the best bang for the buck if you follow Renault's path and have a pairing of experienced driver and ultra quick youngster.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> Patrick, wouldn't you want to wear red for the next five seasons for 32 million euros a year?


:banghead:

Yes!

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> I don't see a reason why would BMW want to sign Webber :dunno:


They won't. 

Williams signing Wurz added to the already strange and confused situation of the driver market and team principle situation. This is all about what Spoonface will do, which has to do with what Jean Todt will do, what Ross Brawn will do, thus affecting where Massa will drive next year.

What Briatore will do, depends on what Renault will do, or who they replace Alonso with, which is tied up with what Räikkönen will or won't do. Moreover, what Briatore does will have an impact on where Kovalainen ends up, which also will now be affected by where Webber goes.

Confused enough?

Anyway, on TV tonight, it was reported that today was the day for FIAT to exercise their option on Kimi, and apparently, he will (once again) be really going to Italy, while Spoonface will retire. Where that leaves Todt and Brawn, who knows.

In other news, Villeneuve is done in Formula One.

.


----------



## carland (Oct 6, 2005)

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/30144/

Ross Brawn will not be at The Scuderia next year. That probably(?) means Spoonface is going to retire.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Has BMW said if and who will be the third driver this weekend? I would think they'd have someone do those miles for them on Friday that Kubica would have put in.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

SteveT said:


> Has BMW said if and who will be the third driver this weekend? I would think they'd have someone do those miles for them on Friday that Kubica would have put in.


Yes...no one. They will not run the third car this week.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

dwette said:


> Yes...no one. They will not run the third car this week.


Do you suppose they feel they wouldn't get any meaningful information without someone who's really familiar with the car?


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

carland said:


> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/30144/
> 
> Ross Brawn will not be at The Scuderia next year. That probably(?) means Spoonface is going to retire.


Anyone think Ron Dennis will recruit Ross Brawn?

As I understand McLaren currently don't have a technical director after Adrian Newey's departure, and their cars' reliability as well as race strategies have not been on pace. Those are exactly what Ross Brawn specializes in.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

From the sounds of it, we should probably hear over this race weekend that Webber has signed to drive for Renault in 2007.


.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Off topic, but...

Cristiano Da Matta is in critical condition after hitting a deer at Road America during Champ Car practice. He was airlifted unconcious after suffering a subdural hematoma and underwent emergency brain surgery. He is in really bad shape.

Best wishes to Cristiano for a speedy and full recovery.

Visit your favorite grand prix site for news. They're all talking about it.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Pretty strange. He hit a deer practicing at ELKHART Lake race track.  


.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Pretty strange. He hit a deer practicing at ELKHART Lake race track.
> 
> .


There are lots of deer in Wisconsin.


----------



## carland (Oct 6, 2005)

Road America (the track) is in Elkhart Lake, WI. It's in the middle of a forest. Squirrels, chipmunks and the like are hit all the time by cars on the track. Deer: Shocking? Yes. Terrible? Yes! (I wish Shorty all the best!) But it was bound to happen at some point.

He's done for the season. I hope he's not done for his career. He was in a good ride and was gaining in the series standings--up to 6th.

Good luck Shorty!


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> There are lots of deer in Wisconsin.


Thank goodness that it wasn't an elk. The result would have been tragically different.

.


----------



## carland (Oct 6, 2005)

Absolutely!


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

armaq said:


> Great drive by Kubica too, but apparently he's been DQ'ed.


2kg of rubber. :yikes: That's a lot.


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

WAM said:


> I haven't seen any report yet on Kimi's account of the crash.


My friend in England just told me that Liuzzi said in an interviwe that he was slowing down to let Kimi by, but Kimi misjudged...


----------



## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

Yes Kubica got DQd and thats too bad. F1 needs to lightnen up a bit, the guys first start, gonna be a heroe someday probably and they won't give him one point? All so they can keep the FA and MS thing tight...Schumacher should have been black flagged anyway for the way he was driving (And the condition of his car).


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

A great race... like Pinecone said, amazing difference in tires as the conditions shifted.

:thumbup: To Button! :thumbup:

He won it straight up. Anyone who says he was gifted the win by the others dropping out, frankly, can go eat a cowpie. Button was cranking out the quick laps before the last stop when Alonso was in the lead. When the producers cut to Alonso leaving the pits, Button (who stopped earlier) was already *through* Turn 1. Even if the wheel nut hadn't come off, Button had a big gap and was continuing to put fast laps together. He won straight up. 

Kimi was a non-factor even before his wreck. 

Oh, and I loved the pass by Alonso around the *outside* of Schumi. Great stuff.

As for Schumi... I'm all for him not making it easy to pass, but to cheat the chicane to prevent the pass from De La Rosa, pure lame-o from the Schum.

Oh, and am I the only one who thought, "You think he would've pulled that crap on JPM?"

Or, "Do you think it would've taken JPM that long to complete the pass on Schumi?"

:bigpimp:


----------



## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

woody underwood said:


> F1 needs to lightnen up a bit, the guys first start, gonna be a heroe someday probably and they won't give him one point? All so they can keep the FA and MS thing tight...


So, you're saying that if Michael had finished, let's say 7th, and Kubica finished 8th, they wouldn't have DQ'd him for being under weight? This was done purely to give points to Michael and Ferrari? Please. :loco:


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

JV and BMW terminated their contract today.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I wonder if Shumi's car was inspected after the race by the stewards, his set of intermediates was also worn beyond normal...


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> 2kg of rubber. :yikes: That's a lot.


That's what over 50 laps on one set of intermediates will do, especially on a dry track.


----------



## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

F1Crazy said:


> I wonder if Shumi's car was inspected after the race by the stewards, his set of intermediates was also worn beyond normal...


I seem to remember Steve Matchett saying he didn't think there were any regulations concerning the post race condition of intermediates or full wets.


----------



## carland (Oct 6, 2005)

F1Crazy said:


> JV and BMW terminated their contract today.


http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/30479/


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

carland said:


> http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/30479/


So will the WWF of Motorsports -- NASCAR -- become the home for all the F1 rejects? Seems appropriate to me.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

bjf123 said:


> I seem to remember Steve Matchett saying he didn't think there were any regulations concerning the post race condition of intermediates or full wets.


From stewards statement:
"The reason for the car being underweight was explained as being attributable to excessive and unexpected tyre wear (and therefore weight loss) arising through continued use of wet weather tyres in comparison to the accustomed and anticipated rate of wear for dry tyres."

Since Schumi didn't finish the race I doubt his car went through scrutineering but he benefitted from Kubica's DQ. Note, that he also run 2 full stints on his intermediates and they were severely worn. It's not the lack of grooves that is questionable but the weight of the tires.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> :eeps:
> 
> Kovalainen to Renault as the second driver.
> 
> ...


It's official, as you predicted Webber joined RBR.


----------



## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

bjf123 said:


> So, you're saying that if Michael had finished, let's say 7th, and Kubica finished 8th, they wouldn't have DQ'd him for being under weight? This was done purely to give points to Michael and Ferrari? Please. :loco:


Sure I believe that, it happens all the time. See some of the other posts about weight loss due to tire wear...especially the ones concerning Schumacher. Maybe Kubica weighs 2kg less than JV and Mario had too many Warsteiners to remember to get the adjustment made. Isn't controversy fun!!!


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Matchett et al have made comments in the past on how Schumacher and others tend to purposefully drive through the clag on their cool down lap, so as to pick up as much rubber as possible on thier hot tires... If you look a the pics of the cars in Parc Ferme, they often look like they are shredded, from all the bits of rubber stuck to them... I wonder who forgot to tell Kubica about that little trick! :dunno:


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> From stewards statement:
> "The reason for the car being underweight was explained as being attributable to excessive and unexpected tyre wear (and therefore weight loss) arising through continued use of wet weather tyres in comparison to the accustomed and anticipated rate of wear for dry tyres."
> 
> Since Schumi didn't finish the race I doubt his car went through scrutineering but he benefitted from Kubica's DQ. Note, that he also run 2 full stints on his intermediates and they were severely worn. It's not the lack of grooves that is questionable but the weight of the tires.


Just watched the race. Schumi should have been DQ'd for both illegally maintaining position against Pedro by cutting the chicane (twice) as well as for weight (if they run that close.) His tires were absolutely shot when they pushed it into the garage. I can't imagine it would have held up under scrutineering. What a screwy situation.

And where's the criticism of Kimi after his dismal brain cramp? If it were JPM, everyone would have been all over him.

Congrats to the BMW team for scoring 6-should-have-been-8 points. I guess I'll leave my sig alone for a while.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

dwette said:


> Off topic, but...
> 
> Cristiano Da Matta is in critical condition after hitting a deer at Road America during Champ Car practice. He was airlifted unconcious after suffering a subdural hematoma and underwent emergency brain surgery. He is in really bad shape.
> 
> Best wishes to Cristiano for a speedy and full recovery.


I know how that feels.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

berford said:


> And where's the criticism of Kimi after his dismal brain cramp? If it were JPM, everyone would have been all over him.


+ 10,000,000


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Drivers are humans and make bad decisions. 

The constant Schumacher bashing makes contributing to the F1 threads frustrating and not worth the bad vibes. The many anti-Schumacher posters have hijacked F1 discussions IMO


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> Drivers are humans and make bad decisions.
> 
> The constant Schumacher bashing makes contributing to the F1 threads frustrating and not worth the bad vibes. The many anti-Schumacher posters have hijacked F1 discussions IMO


His behavior (and the preferential treatment he gets from FIA officials) makes him so easy to bash. Like I've said, he has all the driving talent in the world. He's just an AH behind the wheel.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> Drivers are humans and make bad decisions.
> 
> The constant Schumacher bashing makes contributing to the F1 threads frustrating and not worth the bad vibes. The many anti-Schumacher posters have hijacked F1 discussions IMO


 Schumi is a great driver, but he is certainly not a great sportsman. His tactics are going to make him a target for bashing. He brings it upon himself. Look to him for your source of bad vibes. Ferrari is the same: a great and successful team, but very Machiavellian in pursuit of its goals.

F1 Racing magazine did a review recently of all of Schumi's track antics. Parking at Rascasse was just one of many dubious disctinctions in Schumi's illustrious career.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> His behavior (and the preferential treatment he gets from FIA officials) makes him so easy to bash. Like I've said, he has all the driving talent in the world. He's just an AH behind the wheel.


Amen. I second that. MS brings it upon himself and deserves it.


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

dwette said:


> Schumi is a great driver, but he is certainly not a great sportsman. His tactics are going to make him a target for bashing. He brings it upon himself. Look to him for your source of bad vibes. Ferrari is the same: a great and successful team, but very Machiavellian in pursuit of its goals.
> 
> F1 Racing magazine did a review recently of all of Schumi's track antics. Parking at Rascasse was just one of many dubious disctinctions in Schumi's illustrious career.


I would put money down that almost all great race drivers have used questionable tactics; the thing is nowadays with the intense coverage the drivers are under a media microscope.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Artslinger said:


> I would put money down that almost all great race drivers have used questionable tactics; the thing is nowadays with the intense coverage the drivers are under a media microscope.


Alan Prost was one of the best and he did it w/o cheating and w/o pushing his rivals off the track. He was a true racer and a sportsman.

Except for one big payback that he owed Senna.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> I would put money down that almost all great race drivers have used questionable tactics; the thing is nowadays with the intense coverage the drivers are under a media microscope.


 There are different levels of sportsmanship. At the highest levels dubious tactics aren't used nor needed. Schumi is somewhere at the lower levels. Alonso has, in the past, appeared to be a really good sportsman, but brake checking Doornbos moved him down a notch.

There's not a lot of disagreement that Schumi plays dirty, except from Ferrari/Schumi fans.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

dwette said:


> There are different levels of sportsmanship. At the highest levels dubious tactics aren't used nor needed. Schumi is somewhere at the lower levels. Alonso has, in the past, appeared to be a really good sportsman, but brake checking Doornbos moved him down a notch.


Brake checking is nothing. It's like flipping the bird. All drivers get angry but it's how you conduct yourself when angry. Or desparate.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> I think you meant "...not used..."


Looks like I corrected _before _you quoted.


----------



## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

racerdave said:


> + 10,000,000


+ 10,000

Kimi is starting to act a superstar without the results. Who does he think he is? JV?

Come on man, start completing some races in good position. That crash was a total brain cramp. I agree with Matchett et. al. that he was probably watching his mirrors for de la Rosa when it happened.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

dwette said:


> Looks like I corrected _before _you quoted.


Yeah I was wondering what happened. Was losing my mind on what I just read. Thanks.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Kimi is probabaly the fastest guy out there. I support him. I like his laid back style and his lightening moves.

But hitting whatshisface the rear was a big f___ up.

I think it's hard to keep up driving at 100% when your team has let you down so many times and it should be you with a Championship under your belt and fighting for your 2nd one.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> Brake checking is nothing. It's like flipping the bird. All drivers get angry but it's how you conduct yourself when angry. Or desparate.


Yeah, but in free practice??? That was pretty immature.

I had no problem with Alonso getting penalized, although I agree it (and Schumi's) was a bit severe. One second would have made quali really, really interesting.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

mecklaiz said:


> + 10,000
> 
> Kimi is starting to act a superstar without the results. Who does he think he is? JV?
> 
> Come on man, start completing some races in good position. That crash was a total brain cramp. I agree with Matchett et. al. that he was probably watching his mirrors for de la Rosa when it happened.


I thought I read somewhere that he admitted that he wasn't paying attention. Don't recall where, thoiugh.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

berford said:


> I thought I read somewhere that he admitted that he wasn't paying attention. Don't recall where, thoiugh.


He said he didn't expect Liuzzi to slow *and *he was checking his mirror for de la Rosa.

http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=126758


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

franka said:


> Alan Prost was one of the best and he did it w/o cheating and w/o pushing his rivals off the track. He was a true racer and a sportsman.
> 
> Except for one big payback that he owed Senna.


Prost caused the first collision in '89. He deliberately kicked Senna out of the race, by 1) "missing" the apex (i.e turning in earlier) 2) and, braking earlier.

The video can still be found on the internet. It's very unlikely that a driver like Prost would make two "mistakes" unintentionally in the same turn. Not happened before and not after.

His cause of actions in that particular corner were unsporting. Only Prost himself knows the motive behind, whether he did it to secure the championship or not.

Do I dislike Prost for this action? Never. Quite the opposite. I still think that he's one of the greatest drivers ever.

I believe that only those, who got balls on the track, will be remembered as heros. The rest will decorate the statistics.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> And where's the criticism of Kimi after his dismal brain cramp? If it were JPM, everyone would have been all over him.


I don't know what everyone else heard about the crash with Liuzzi, but at least he explained it clearly on Finnish TV, post-race.

Moments before the shunt, he (Räikkönen) was on the radio with the pit wall, and they were telling him to let de la Rosa pass (de la Rosa was on a 3-stop race, Räikkönen, 2-stop). Räikkönen was looking at his right side mirror waiting for de la Rosa to pass him, when at the same time, Liuzzi slowed on the racing line to allow Räikkönen by. Then boom.

Bummer.

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> The many anti-Schumacher posters have hijacked F1 discussions IMO


I sincerely apologize.

.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I don't know what everyone else heard about the crash with Liuzzi, but at least he explained it clearly on Finnish TV, post-race....


And the big difference is that if it had been JPM, he would have found a way to blame de la Rosa and/or Liuzzi, but not take any responsibility for the incident himself. Kimi just fessed up and said it was an unlucky incident. He didn't try to fix blame elsewhere.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

dwette said:


> Schumi is a great driver, but he is certainly not a great sportsman. His tactics are going to make him a target for bashing. He brings it upon himself. Look to him for your source of bad vibes. Ferrari is the same: a great and successful team, but very Machiavellian in pursuit of its goals.


I wholeheartedly agree.

Spoonface, Ferrari and the FIA have made a joke of Formula One too many times. I can't wait for that c*nt to retire.

.


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> I don't know what everyone else heard about the crash with Liuzzi, but at least he explained it clearly on Finnish TV, post-race.
> 
> Moments before the shunt, he (Räikkönen) was on the radio with the pit wall, and they were telling him to let de la Rosa pass (de la Rosa was on a 3-stop race, Räikkönen, 2-stop). Räikkönen was looking at his right side mirror waiting for de la Rosa to pass him, when at the same time, Liuzzi slowed on the racing line to allow Räikkönen by. Then boom.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I read his explanation too, which sound very reasonable to me. It was a wet race and they are driving F1 cars. There are a lot of things going on around every driver and all this in milli-seconds. Even a little lift from gas for a fraction of a second and you're going 60 mph slower than the car behind. Just an unlucky incident.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Ferrari Fcups*

A long but fun read of all the Ferrari mistakes, MS and the team both.

Ferrari's Hungarian Goulash

What could have been the turning point of the 2006 world championship turned into one of the worst race weekends for Michael Schumacher, with the German and his Ferrari team dropping the ball time and time again. What actually happened down at the red garage, and was Schumacher's race all bad? Adam Cooper brings the inside story

By Adam Cooper 
autosport.com contributing writer


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> ...the team would be getting into dangerous territory, because voluntarily retiring a healthy car is frowned upon by the FIA. But not if you don't make it too obvious, of course.
> 
> I can only presume that good sportsmanship is why Ferrari didn't stop Massa. I'd hate to think that they just never thought of doing it...


Regarding the last two snippets:

The reds have a history of the "not too obvious."
Breaks me up.:rofl:


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> A long but fun read of all the Ferrari mistakes, MS and the team both.
> 
> Ferrari's Hungarian Goulash ...


It would be better if you just posted a link. The mods may end up deleting your post because the article is probably copyrighted.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Yes, good point, but one big problem. No one would be able to open and read the link because it's a paid subscription. I've tried that before.

Best is probably not to post them at all. Too bad because they're such good reading.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> Yes, good point, but one big problem. No one would be able to open and read the link because it's a paid subscription. I've tried that before.
> 
> Best is probably not to post them at all. Too bad because they're such good reading.


In that case, I'll bet it is against forum policy to post & probably a copyright violation. In any case I'll bet it is completely against policy of the originating site. Not that I'm the forum police or anything, but don't be surpirised if it gets deleted.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

What i like about the article is it shows that Schumi isn't what he's all cracked up to be. He screws up and his attitude worked against him.

Schumi does not walk on water like most of the press believes. And Montoya knew that and treated him accordingly. Too bad other drivers don't realize that too. If they did it would give them a mental advantage.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

dwette said:


> In that case, I'll bet it is against forum policy to post & probably a copyright violation. In any case I'll bet it is completely against policy of the originating site. Not that I'm the forum police or anything, but don't be surpirised if it gets deleted.


No arguement from me. Just FYI that I've posted them before and they have not been taken down.

But no more copied posts from me.

I could set up a group email to those that would like to get such articles but no doubt someone would rat to some authority and I'd be the one in trouble.

Real fans subscribe.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> No arguement from me. Just FYI that I've posted them before and they have not been taken down.
> 
> But no more copied posts from me.
> 
> ...


I get the paper copy of Autosport every week. It's always a bit old by the time it shows up, but I love having that big rag to sit down and read.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

dwette said:


> In that case, I'll bet it is against forum policy to post & probably a copyright violation. In any case I'll bet it is completely against policy of the originating site. Not that I'm the forum police or anything, but don't be surpirised if it gets deleted.


Would you like me to edit it away? Are you a Schumi fan?


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> Would you like me to edit it away? Are you a Schumi fan?


I don't care what you do with the post. I was just offering a FYI.

I am not a Schumi nor a Scuderia Ferrari fan, and never have been. I wear my BMW-Sauber livery with pride.


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Franka, please kindly edit your post. Just quoting the first paragraph and providing the link to the site would be sufficient.

Thanks.


----------



## KK (Apr 27, 2005)

Awesome article  Great writing:thumbup:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

it's gone now, glad you got to read it. 

too much talk about the potential problems made it a problem.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I copied and pasted it to a Word doc. before it was edited away.  


.


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I'll be at the Turkish Grand Prix in two weeks :eeps:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> I'll be at the Turkish Grand Prix in two weeks :eeps:


Outstanding! :thumbup:

What kind of tickets did you get?

.


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Outstanding! :thumbup:
> 
> What kind of tickets did you get?
> 
> .


Main Grandstand, Gold Jr. $158


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Very cool.

Take your camera.  









If you remember it. :eeps: 


.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The latest rumors for 2007. :eeps: 

Spoonface stays at Ferrari (not retiring).  

Räikkönen stays at McLaren.  

Kovalainen drives with Fisichella for Renault (unless Alonso manages to get out of his McLaren contract). :thumbup: 

Stay tuned. :bigpimp: 


.


----------



## RiDE (Jun 1, 2006)

If Kimi stays at McLaren, I hope he gives Alonso an ass kicking. :banana:


----------



## RiDE (Jun 1, 2006)

franka said:


> Would you like me to edit it away? Are you a Schumi fan?


lol talk about defensive :eeps: :rofl:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Too funny.

Apparently, Räikkönen and his friends were invited to a banquet after the Hungarian Grand Prix. Kimi likes to party, so he and his friends did just that, even with Vitantonio Liuzzi. After having a good time, they prepared to leave, and Räikkönen realized that his wallet was missing (driver's license was in his wallet). Soon after however, his wallet was found and returned to him.

For some reason, when the Italian press heard this story, they decided that what had happened was that Räikkönen's license had been revoked for drunk driving. :rofl: 

Talk about lost in translation.

Anyway, see you in court!


.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*I've been for this since the mid 80s.....*

Drivers to discuss new doping tests

By Jonathan Noble Friday, August 25th 2006, 08:41 GMT

Formula One drivers are set to formally discuss the issue of performance enhancing drugs in the sport this afternoon, autosport.com has learned.

The move comes after renewed calls from a number of drivers to increase the sophistication of tests in F1, as revealed by Autosport earlier this month.

Some members of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) are convinced that the current measures to test for drugs do not go far enough.

Drivers are currently only required to submit occasional urine samples on a randomly selected basis, but the increasing sophistication of 'doping' means a number of performance-boosting substances are virtually undetectable without blood testing.

One driver, who did not wish to be named, told Autosport recently: "We're all considered to be reasonably fit and really we should have nothing to fear. But there's no question that something like EPO, which is really common in professional cycling, would help concentration and stamina levels.

"Personally I would like to see more testing and not to the Mickey Mouse levels we have at the moment."

The subject of increased drug testing has become a hot topic of conversation in the Istanbul paddock, which has left some drivers frustrated because they think that drug taking is non-existent in the sport.

GPDA director David Coulthard has said that he is so annoyed by the latest talk that he wants the matter sorted out at this afternoon's F1 drivers' briefing.

"It's something that people bring up every now and again, but I don't see the point as I don't think there is a problem with drugs," he said.

"I am sure no driver would fail a test, so I don't see why we need to make an issue out of it. I will be bringing it up in the drivers' briefing."

But not all drivers think the matter should be ignored - and that if there was no drug taking then there should be nothing to fear from increased tests.

Williams' Mark Webber said: "I would be highly surprised if anyone is doing anything, apart from a few Foster's here and there.

"But it is a professional sport and you should always cover all bases. I am not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, but why not more testing?"


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Poor baby Doornbos*

Doornbos: Alonso playing chicken

By Jonathan Noble Friday, August 25th 2006, 12:39 GMT

World champion Fernando Alonso and Red Bull's third driver Robert Doornbos tangled again in practice for the Turkish Grand Prix, with the Dutchman claiming the Renault driver was "playing chicken" with him.

The duo had clashed in the previous race in Hungary, and stewards found that Alonso had made hand gestures at Doornbos and veered his car off the normal racing line towards the Dutchman on the pit straight.

Alonso was penalised for the incident.

On Friday, Alonso and Doornbos were involved in another incident when Doornbos got a tow off Alonso out of Turn Nine during practice. They ran side by side at the next corner, with Alonso diving down the inside to avoid the Red Bull driver from passing.

Their cars appeared to make contact.

"I was hoping that he would let me go so I could finish my lap but he didn't, he wanted to play a game of chicken about who could brake the latest and that was it," Doornbos told autosport.com.

"I am curious to see what he thinks, obviously it was great that he gave me a tow and it is a shame.

"We definitely touched. There is some evidence."


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> ...with the Dutchman claiming the Renault driver was "playing chicken" with him.


Is Alonso so crazy as to play chicken with the championship?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> Is Alonso so crazy as to play chicken with the championship?


That's Doornbos take on what happened.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Here is Alonso's take on it...*

Alonso shrugs off Doornbos incident

By Jonathan Noble Friday, August 25th 2006, 14:32 GMT

World champion Fernando Alonso has played down his incident with Robert Doornbos in today's practice for the Turkish Grand Prix.

The Red Bull Racing driver said Alonso was "playing chicken" with him, after the pair made contact in their second incident in two races.

In Hungary three weeks ago Alonso got penalised for his antics.

"We were on the straight together, I was fast on the straight because my car was quicker so we braked together and we locked the front tyres we lost control until we touched," said Alonso of today's incident.

"But we were lucky that there was no damage to the car and we carried on.

"I didn't expect to have any problems there," added the Renault driver. I overtook three or four cars today and five or six cars overtook me today when I was with the graining period, and with all of them I didn't have any problem," Alonso said.

"But Doornbos has three or four incidents today. It is strange."


----------



## RiDE (Jun 1, 2006)

What the hell is Alonso doing? You'd think he'd try to stay away from Doorknob.


----------



## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Decent effort for BMW in qualifying today. 5th and 8th positions since they both move up due to Ralf's engine change.

It will be interesting to see how fast Massa moves over tomorrow or when Ferrari are able to orchestrate the pass. Should be fun to see what Alonso can do to counter.


----------



## RiDE (Jun 1, 2006)

Michael's time in the 2nd session and the fact that he was messing up the 1st corner in 3rd session only makes me think he's running heavy.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

RiDE said:


> Michael's time in the 2nd session and the fact that he was messing up the 1st corner in 3rd session only makes me think he's running heavy.


Kimi I hope is heavier, down in 8th.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

So where's the protest coming from re. the Ferrari wheel faceplates? Is there anything official yet? Or don't any of the teams want to spoil Massa's day of glory?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> So where's the protest coming from re. the Ferrari wheel faceplates? Is there anything official yet? Or don't any of the teams want to spoil Massa's day of glory?


The Red Bull cars had them too and there is nothing about it in my Autosport subscription so I have to assume it was cleared with the officials before the race ....

since 1) it would be supremely dumb to put it on at least 4 cars w/o approval and...

since 2) we haven't heard anything about it.

We all know that Ferrari's protangonists wouldn't consider Massa, the person, for a split second if they had a chance to stick it to Ferrari.

Ask me how I know.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> The Red Bull cars had them too and there is nothing about it in my Autosport subscription so I have to assume it was cleared with the officials before the race ....
> 
> since 1) it would be supremely dumb to put it on at least 4 cars w/o approval and...
> 
> ...


Ummmmm, how do you know.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I'd stick it to Ferrari... just like they would to any other team.

But you already knew that.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> I'd stick it to Ferrari... just like they would to any other team.
> 
> But you already knew that.


I would stick it to Ferrari, even if they hadn't done anything wrong. Just for the hell of it. :bigpimp:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

franka said:


> We all know that Ferrari's protangonists wouldn't consider Massa, the person, for a split second if they had a chance to stick it to Ferrari.


Antagonists. :eeps:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> So where's the protest coming from re. the Ferrari wheel faceplates? Is there anything official yet? Or don't any of the teams want to spoil Massa's day of glory?


Briatore has already claimed that they are illegal - according to the FIA's technical rules, wheels used in Formula One must be made of one material (probably in the name of "safety"). The new Ferrari wheels are made of two separate materials, the new "faceplate" is carbon fiber.

Flavio's comment about this basically said that he no longer sees any difference between what is best for FIAT and how the FIA interprets their own technical rules.

Although the story of the day was Massa's first Formula One victory, I think that the bigger news was that Spoonface did not win. He faked his way through the trophy ceremony and through the post-race interview. What a jerk.

Anyway, it was nice to see that Lady Luck was for once, not on his side and he "only" finished 3rd. Had it been Massa-Spoonface-Alonso with 10 laps to go, Finnish TV commentator Mika Salo suggested that Massa would have been called in for a pit stop to allow Spoonface into the lead. This would have required a healthy enough gap between Spoonface and Alonso however.

And just imagine the sh!t storm that would have created ... :tsk:

.


----------



## KU Ned (Apr 23, 2003)

Mass Damper = Illegal as it is interpreted as a moving aerodynamic piece by FIA

Carbon brake coolers = Legal because Ferrari came up with them

FIA officials wear Ferrari knee pads.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

dwette said:


> I would stick it to Ferrari, even if they hadn't done anything wrong. Just for the hell of it. :bigpimp:


Now you're talkin. I'm with you.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

KU Ned said:


> Mass Damper = Illegal as it is interpreted as a moving aerodynamic piece by FIA
> 
> Carbon brake coolers = Legal because Ferrari came up with them
> 
> FIA officials wear Ferrari knee pads.


I couldn't agree more.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

LOL!

Mika Salo brought up an interesting point when talking about Spoonface and Mumbles (Räikkönen) being teammates: imagine how money Phillip Morris and Shell would have to fork over for those two to drive together. Massa/Räikkönen will be even less expensive than Massa/Spoonface.


.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> LOL!
> 
> Mika Salo brought up an interesting point when talking about Spoonface and Mumbles (Räikkönen) being teammates: imagine how money Phillip Morris and Shell would have to fork over for those two to drive together. Massa/Räikkönen will be even less expensive than Massa/Spoonface.
> 
> .


Schumi/Kimi...I would just love to see the press condferences...

Schumi: It was my race. I should have won it. The FIA should have made it so.
Kimi: mhmhmnf..sjhfmnbd..jdhstafsbd
Schumi: Yes, Kimi where were you. You were told to block for me.
Kimi: hhddss...kkddmnncv...yyrsnsnm


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

*Spyker buys Midland*

Spyker has bought Midland F1, and there are reports that Spyker is negotiating with Ferrari for engines.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Has Spyker actually made the deal to buy MF1? :dunno: 

I understood that they were trying to make an engine deal for MF1, but hadn't bought the team (yet). Alex Schnaider will have a hard time giving up the Formula 1 "lifestyle" that he so enjoys!


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Meaningless news of the day: BMVs finished with 3 cars in the top 9 in Italia. Hope the success continues tomorrow and Sunday.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

berford said:


> Meaningless news of the day: BMVs finished with 3 cars in the top 9 in Italia. Hope the success continues tomorrow and Sunday.


They dominate practice like no other team.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> They dominate practice like no other team.


Need to lobby The Turd to award points for practice sessions.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

This ought to be interesting.

I suppose that the red cars will be P1 and P2, and then everyone else will be +1.xxx sec behind.

I read that it is going to rain like hell at Monza tomorrow. Combine that with the new asphalt, and the race could be a wild one.


.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I suppose that the red cars will be P1 and P2, and then everyone else will be +1.xxx sec behind..


Not so fast ...:eeps:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Holy crap. It really couldn't be much closer than that!


.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


> Not so fast ...:eeps:


:eeps: The red cars have lots of fuel on board. 

.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Get a load of this BS! I saw that last lap... Massa was no where near being close to pass Alonso! He was at least 100 meters behind... what a joke.

lonso penalised for impeding Massa

Saturday, September 9th 2006, 17:13 GMT

World champion Fernando Alonso has been relegated to 10th place on the grid for impeding Felipe Massa during qualifying for the Italian Grand Prix.

Alonso, who had qualified in fifth position, was summoned by the Monza stewards after Ferrari driver Massa complained that the Spaniard had blocked him during his final run.

"On Q3 on my last run, I came up behind Alonso who was also setting out on his quick lap. I lost at least three tenths," said Massa after qualifying.

Alonso said he had not blocked the Brazilian, but the Monza stewards thought differently and have penalised the Renault driver, who will start the race from 10th place.

Alonso got his three fastest laps deleted.

The penalty means he will start eight positions behind championship rival Michael Schumacher, who is 12 points behind him in the standings with four races to go.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

I agree. It didn't look to me like Alonso was blocking. 

But it's Monza. Whaddya expect? :dunno: 
The stewards are probably tifosi.  :yikes:


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Has Spyker actually made the deal to buy MF1? :dunno:
> 
> I understood that they were trying to make an engine deal for MF1, but hadn't bought the team (yet). Alex Schnaider will have a hard time giving up the Formula 1 "lifestyle" that he so enjoys!
> 
> .


It is a done deal. Announced by Midland late Saturday. Team will be called Spyker MF1 Racing. Cool. I've watched the Spyker GT2 cars in Le Mans series (on the rare occassion we actually get to see footage of the European LMS in the U.S.).


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

dwette said:


> It is a done deal. Announced by Midland late Saturday. Team will be called Spyker MF1 Racing. Cool. I've watched the Spyker GT2 cars in Le Mans series (on the rare occassion we actually get to see footage of the European LMS in the U.S.).


Yep, you were right.

I wonder if this will make any difference for MF1?

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Get a load of this BS! I saw that last lap... Massa was no where near being close to pass Alonso! He was at least 100 meters behind... what a joke.


I totally agree. When I first heard about this after qualifying yesterday, I though WTF? Even the Finnish commentator Mika Salo (former Ferrari driver) said that Massa benefited by Alonso having to drive all out to be able to begin his last lap - Alonso was pulling Massa and _helping_ his lap time.

Typical Ferrari BS. Do whatever it takes. :tsk:

.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Is anyone watching?

BTW, this morning's GP2 race was excellent! Had Hamilton not gone off after the 6th lap (or so), I am sure that he would have won. Anyway, he won the championship and he is quick.


.


----------



## carland (Oct 6, 2005)

*BMW Sauber on the podium!!!*

After only his thrid start in F1, Robert Kubica scores his first podium for BMW! Congratulations!

In fact, both BMW cars finished (finally) in the points today. Neither Ferrari, McLaren, nor Renault could make that claim this week.


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Kubica did a great job. :thumbup:

Wonder what JV thinks. :eeps:


----------



## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

MS retired... forced out?


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

#98 said:


> ALMS is pretty boring to watch on TV. They spend way too much camera time on the R10s which have no competition simply because it's the top tier class.


 There is some great racing going on. SPEED TV coverage is a really bad way to judge or rate ALMS. Even at the track I tuned my scanner into Radio Le Mans (the commentary for the European feeds) rather than to the SPEED TV feed.


----------



## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

F1Crazy said:


> Franka is absolutely right in saying that driving style has little to do with reliability of the modern F1 cars. Look at Alonso and Renault, he has one of the most aggressive driving styles and yet his engine expired only once in 3 seasons, they had almost no hydraulics failures and wheel nut incident at Hungary was just a bad luck. Jenson Button on the other hand is a very smooth driver yet his Honda blew up so many times it's not even funny anymore.


The drivetrain shouldn't be affected, but I was talking more about suspension failures due to aggressive driving. The Renault and Ferrari are both very good cars, but the rest of the field trying to catch up is where I am pointing my finger at.


----------



## #98 (Nov 26, 2003)

dwette said:


> There is some great racing going on. SPEED TV coverage is a really bad way to judge or rate ALMS. Even at the track I tuned my scanner into Radio Le Mans (the commentary for the European feeds) rather than to the SPEED TV feed.


I went to an ALMS race at Road America. It's always exciting to see, but more importantly hear these cars in person. However, at tracks like Road America you need like a golf cart to get around without dying. I find watching that almost all professional race series are exciting in person. I think Champ Car is usually just OK on TV, but in person it's awe-inspiring to see how fast they are. However, I get tired of watching races pretty quickly because it makes me crave racing...I want to trailer out my racecar. It's sort of like porn...there's nothing like the real thing.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I am still shocked that no one (not even Baumann) ripped me a new one for applauding Spoonface's victory.


:eeps: 


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I am still shocked that no one (not even Baumann) ripped me a new one for applauding Spoonface's victory.
> 
> :eeps:
> 
> .


If Alex had commented, don't you think he would have given you a thumbs up for objectivity? There's no doubt he ran a good race...and clean (for him.) His skill is always apparent and the team usually employs the most advantageous strategy--whatever it might be for a particular race. This time, he won mostly on the mistakes of other teams (1st) and drivers (2nd). He's so smooth that nobody else is allowed to make *any* mistakes or they won't win.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Great race summary here, BTW:
http://www.grandprix.com/race/r766racereport.html

They always do a nice job...and with a little humor (or is it humour?) mixed in. (See the end of the third-to-last Paragraph.)


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> If Alex had commented, don't you think he would have given you a thumbs up for objectivity? There's no doubt he ran a good race...and clean (for him.) His skill is always apparent and the team usually employs the most advantageous strategy--whatever it might be for a particular race. This time, he won mostly on the mistakes of other teams (1st) and drivers (2nd). QUOTE]
> 
> I can agree with this. Especially what I said days ago but got lost in Schumi adoration, that he won because others dropped out and made mistakes.
> 
> Thank you Berford for speaking the truth.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> I am still shocked that no one (not even Baumann) ripped me a new one for applauding Spoonface's victory.
> 
> :eeps:
> 
> .


Probably you were quite heavy on Vodka lately?

If you read this forum, it's always other's mistakes, as if Schumi never won a race on his own.

The constant bigotry against Ferrari on this forum is hilarious.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

F1Crazy said:


> Franka is absolutely right in saying that driving style has little to do with reliability of the modern F1 cars.


Call me a crackpot if you like, but I feel that its not just about the "driving style" (i.e jumping curbs, turn in, and so forth) but also how the driver handles the car... many people have commented how "smooth" MS is, and his cars usually don't have problems... is it him, or the car? To me, this "smoothness" manifests itself in things that aren't even noticeable to the observer, except maybe through telemetry... throttle position, braking, downshifting, etc... When and how he meshes with the machine allows him to become "one" with the machine, and make it do his bidding... Kimi, on the other hand, seems to break everything he touches... again, is it the car, or him? He doesn't seem to mesh as well... he's just in the car, not part of it... I realize this sounds like alot of metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, :loco: but I guess the proof will be when Kimi suits up in red... if he starts having an unusual number of mechanical failures, I wonder what the excuses will be... :dunno:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*W.t.f.?*



Alex Baumann said:


> Probably you were quite heavy on Vodka lately?


Holy crap.

Has everyone lost their sense of humor?

Or do I have to post a picture of myself with a red shirt and a Dekra baseball hat on?

Go Schumi!

.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Salvator said:


> Call me a crackpot if you like, but I feel that its not just about the "driving style" (i.e jumping curbs, turn in, and so forth) but also how the driver handles the car... many people have commented how "smooth" MS is, and his cars usually don't have problems... is it him, or the car? To me, this "smoothness" manifests itself in things that aren't even noticeable to the observer, except maybe through telemetry... throttle position, braking, downshifting, etc... When and how he meshes with the machine allows him to become "one" with the machine, and make it do his bidding... Kimi, on the other hand, seems to break everything he touches... again, is it the car, or him? He doesn't seem to mesh as well... he's just in the car, not part of it... I realize this sounds like alot of metaphysical mumbo-jumbo, :loco: but I guess the proof will be when Kimi suits up in red... if he starts having an unusual number of mechanical failures, I wonder what the excuses will be... :dunno:


I would like to be sure I am getting this correct...are you saying that the Ferrari hasn't broken down because MS is driving it smoothly and the Mclaren is breaking down because Kimi is abusing the car with his driving style?


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

franka said:


> I would like to be sure I am getting this correct...are you saying that the Ferrari hasn't broken down because MS is driving it smoothly and the Mclaren is breaking down because Kimi is abusing the car with his driving style?


I'm suggesting that it is a possibility, yes... Feel free to use the :loco: icon...  it's just my theory... sure, there are plenty of variables that could change things, but it just seems odd that the McLaren (in Kimi's hands) is so darn unreliable, whereas the supposed same exact vehicle (in the hands of someone other than Kimi, be it JPM or otherwise) doesn't seem to have the same failure rate... as I've said, we'll see next year... if the Ferrari in Kimi's hands starts experiencing a rash of DNFs, maybe there might be something to my musings... :dunno:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

That's so far out there that it's absurd. And little green men are abducting people at night.


----------



## #98 (Nov 26, 2003)

franka said:


> berford said:
> 
> 
> > If Alex had commented, don't you think he would have given you a thumbs up for objectivity? There's no doubt he ran a good race...and clean (for him.) His skill is always apparent and the team usually employs the most advantageous strategy--whatever it might be for a particular race. This time, he won mostly on the mistakes of other teams (1st) and drivers (2nd). QUOTE]
> ...


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Does F1 use distilled water in their cooling systems or something more exotic like some company is selling. 

Sorry but I forgot their name. It was a long time ago that I read about a liquid specifically designed to absorb more heat than water (ie higher specific heat) will not corrode all metals and lubricates the pumps.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

franka said:


> That's so far out there that it's absurd. And little green men are abducting people at night.












:angel:


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

franka said:


> Sorry but I forgot their name. It was a long time ago that I read about a liquid specifically designed to absorb more heat than water (ie higher specific heat) will not corrode all metals and lubricates the pumps.


Redline Water Wetter?










http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks sir. What is F1 using?


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

McLaren has been chasing reliabilty since the famous car that never raced - MP4/18. It was 2003 and had nothing to do with Kimi, cars suffered similar breakdowns in hands of DC and Wurz. 

Montezemolo and the rest of the red gang are so stupid that they forced Schumi out of the sport and hired Kimi "the car breaker". Yeah, right


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Holy crap.
> 
> Has everyone lost their sense of humor?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't be surprised to see you wearing that red shirt, in fact I bet you will wear it next year


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

#98 said:


> A redundant mechanic is never fully stealth.


You could kill all members of the team that knew anything.


----------



## #98 (Nov 26, 2003)

franka said:


> You could kill all members of the team that knew anything.


Yeah, just tell Schumi they're neck and neck with him in the WDC and he'll "lose control" right into their pit box. What a competitor!


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Ferrari lack sporting spirit*

Renault rue lack of 'sporting spirit'

Thursday, October 12th 2006, 14:58 GMT

Renault's fight with Ferrari for world championship glory has taken place with less 'sporting spirit' than last season's battle with McLaren, claims one of the team's leading figures.

Denis Chevrier, Renault's chief of engine operations, believes that the friction between his team and Ferrari this season is in complete contrast with the pure racing battle that they had with McLaren 12 months ago.

That is why Chevrier has joined team boss Flavio Briatore in claiming he has no sympathy for the way Michael Schumacher's title charge was all but killed off with engine failure at Suzuka last weekend.

"We have faced so many misfortunes within the past two months that we were convinced the problems made our rivals very aggressive and proud," said Chevrier in this week's Autosport.

"The fact that they have shown a weak point shows how difficult this fight has been, but I must say that in contrast with my feelings last year fighting McLaren, I was not sad when I saw their failure.

"Last year it was just a question of who was faster on the track. This year there was much less sporting spirit and less spirit of pure competition."

Chevrier's comments come after Briatore said that fighting Ferrari this year was completely different to competing against McLaren because of the political aspects that come with it.

The teams have clashed over mass dampers and blocking incidents in qualifying this year.

"If you are fighting with McLaren it is fine, if you fight with these guys (Ferrari) it is impossible," said Briatore in Suzuka.


----------



## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> Renault rue lack of 'sporting spirit'
> 
> Thursday, October 12th 2006, 14:58 GMT
> 
> Renault's fight with Ferrari for world championship glory has taken place with less 'sporting spirit' than last season's battle with McLaren, claims one of the team's leading figures....


I agree that last year's Kimi/Alonso battle was more fun to follow. Watching Kimi push from the back of the field after his engine grid penalties was amazing. This year it just seemed like a parade of those with the wrong tires at the moment following those with the right tires for the moment.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Should Alonso win the crown it will be a brilliant victory for Michelin too, winning on their way out and in essence poking their finger in Bridgestone and Bernie's eye.

But of couse I'm ahead of the facts, events could move elsewise, so I will say no more so as not to jinx Renault and Michelin.


----------



## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

Politics aside, the fundamental difference between this season and last season, is that last year Renault was fighting McLaren on the same tires, this year they are fighting Bstone-shod Ferrari. It's a battle on a much bigger scale. The advantages/disadvantages one tire has on a weekend cannot be overcome by the race teams. It's an entire different competition when there's a deciding factor that's out of your hands.

EDIT: Oops didn't see the previous posts, which kinda make my comment redundant.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*It's the same old song.....*

I've been a McLaren fan for many years but I'm slipping. I've heard this for too many years now......

Same old song.....

McLaren sure to return to winning ways

By Jonathan Noble Friday, October 13th 2006, 13:57 GMT

McLaren are adamant they know exactly what is needed for them to return to the front in Formula One next season.

The Woking-based team are facing their first win-less campaign in a decade, and the pressure will be on them to improve next year thanks to the arrival of Fernando Alonso.

But despite their disappointing campaign, team boss Ron Dennis is confident that rule stability over the winter will be a key factor in helping them make the necessary improvements to more forward.

"Winning is not easy but we have not forgotten or lost an understanding of what it takes to win," said Dennis. "We are pushing hard for next season as we do for every season, and what we like is rule stability. It is what I have said so many times in the past.

"We don't like the constraints on engine development, but at least we have time to optimise it within the constraints of the regulations between now and March.

"Obviously the car can be developed during the season, but we have to make sure that we hit the season running with a good package."

McLaren's partner Mercedes-Benz have already made the first steps towards the 2007 package, with a revised engine that was introduced at last weekend's Japanese Grand Prix.

Although it is not a major improvement over the previous specification power units used so far this year, it has been designed for optimum performance at the 19,000rpm limit that engines will race with from next season. It means the full benefits of the engine will not be felt until 2007.

Mercedes-Benz Norbert Haug is confident that the team have what it takes to fight for the world title next season.

"I am 100 percent convinced that this team has all the experiences to do a good job," he said. "If you look back on the last 10 years, if you count the victories, if you count the championships together, Ferrari was more successful but no one else was more successful in that decade than us.

"We missed very closely a couple of world championship wins, in 2003 and 2005, and all in all we could have done better, but we certainly are not bad. The most important thing is that we are absolutely in a position to further improve and we are convinced of that. I think we have all the ingredients to do so."


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

armaq said:


> Politics aside, the fundamental difference between this season and last season, is that last year Renault was fighting McLaren on the same tires, this year they are fighting Bstone-shod Ferrari. It's a battle on a much bigger scale. The advantages/disadvantages one tire has on a weekend cannot be overcome by the race teams. It's an entire different competition when there's a deciding factor that's out of your hands.
> 
> EDIT: Oops didn't see the previous posts, which kinda make my comment redundant.


You're right. Its really a Bstone vs Mich fight and the vehicles and drivers are almost secondary.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

franka said:


> You're right. Its really a Bstone vs Mich fight and the vehicles and drivers are almost secondary.


The tires have been discussed over the years as the dominant component of F1, though some haven't fully agreed. Even during Michael's heavily dominant periods the tires played a very large role. I don't mean to diminish Michael's accomplishments, but when you combine a top driver with the best pieces he would be tough to beat. This situation began to end in 2003 when JPM or Kimi could have won the WC, but for the tire issues generated by Ferrari/Bridgestone. If you remember, Alonso lapped Michael in Hungary winning the race and there were claims that the tires were illegal. Michelin had to change their tires in a few days before Monza and they lost some speed. JPM was competitive with Michael at Monza despite this, but Michael won the race and eventually the WC.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

SteveT said:


> JPM was competitive with Michael at Monza despite this, but Michael won the race and eventually the WC.


JPM seems to always get in there somehow. :rofl:


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

franka said:


> JPM seems to always get in there somehow. :rofl:


The reality was that he was in position to win the WC if had continued to do well that year. He didn't do well a Indy and didn't finish in Japan. Michael only beat Kimi by 2 points and JPM by 11. Williams was only 14 points behind Ferrari in the CS. It as all about tires.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

SteveT said:


> The reality was that he was in position to win the WC if had continued to do well that year. He didn't do well a Indy and didn't finish in Japan. Michael only beat Kimi by 2 points and JPM by 11. Williams was only 14 points behind Ferrari in the CS. It as all about tires.


He had a very unfair call at Indy and stomped out w/o talking to anyone. I didn't blame him as he saw it as changing the flow of the championship to his detriment.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

franka said:


> He had a very unfair call at Indy and stomped out w/o talking to anyone. I didn't blame him as he saw it as changing the flow of the championship to his detriment.


Very true. That became BMW-Williams high water mark. Too bad.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Alonso needs to watch out for anyone and everyone taking him out of the race. At a minumum that would be the 4 cars running Ferrari power. 

Several weeks/mos back McLaren said they would team up with Renault to help them win the championship but wasn't it they who blew the whistle on the mass dampers? 

And I doubt that Kimi would be willing to follow orders from Dennis to help Renault defeat Ferrari.

Who else does Alonso have to worry about besides the egg heads like Sato that could take him off?


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Alonso needs to watch out for anyone and everyone taking him out of the race. At a minumum that would be the 4 cars running Ferrari power. ...
> 
> Who else does Alonso have to worry about besides the egg heads like Sato that could take him off?


I think Massa is the only one who would [un]intentionally disrupt Alonso's race. I doubt that others (teams or drivers) would like to be remembered as the one who was perceived to have thrown the championship to someone else.


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## AC (Apr 28, 2002)

berford said:


> I think Massa is the only one who would [un]intentionally disrupt Alonso's race. I doubt that others (teams or drivers) would like to be remembered as the one who was perceived to have thrown the championship to someone else.


Maybe this time, Fisichella will not spin himself out in order not to have Alonso run into him!


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*There is nothing else to do but attack...*

Schumacher vows to attack in Brazil

By Jonathan Noble Monday, October 16th 2006, 13:19 GMT

Michael Schumacher has said he is in 'full attack' mode for this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix, as he bids to end his Formula One career on a high.

Although the Ferrari driver has only a slim chance of the drivers' championship, following his engine failure in Japan, that has not ended his determination to do well in his final Grand Prix.

"It will be a full out attack drive," said Schumacher, speaking before he flies out to Interlagos tomorrow.

"We are looking for a double victory (1-2 finish), nothing else. That is still our only chance in the fight for the championship, and the only thing in our control. Everything else is no longer in our hands."

Schumacher needs to win the race, with Alonso out of the points, to claim the drivers' crown, while Ferrari realistically need a one-two finish to have a chance of the constructors' title.

The German is in no doubt that he believes Ferrari are deserving of the constructors' championship this year - because of the way they recovered from the 25-point deficit after the Canadian GP to take the title battle to the final round.

"Whoever comes back from the depths and hauls themselves to this point, and who puts so much commitment and passion into their work, earns the largest respect. They have my respect.

"They are the best in the field - and the constructors' title would be absolutely deserved in my eyes."

And although he has stated his main ambition is to have 'fun' in his final race, he is well aware that a victory would be the perfect way to bow out of the sport.

"Naturally I am aware that after nearly 16 years this will be my last race," he said. "And naturally I want to have a beautiful race in the end. A victory would mean I could go out with a high feeling."


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Renault going for victory in Brazil 

By Jonathan Noble Monday, October 16th 2006, 09:34 GMT 


Renault will shy away from taking a conservative approach to this weekend's Brazilian Grand Prix and are instead heading to Interlagos going all out for victory, team boss Flavio Briatore claims.

Although the French car manufacturer only need to finish third and fifth to guarantee themselves both the drivers' and constructors' titles, Briatore believes his team must go on the attack if they are to triumph in the season finale.

"We are going there to win the race," he said during a press conference to confirm Renault's new title sponsorship deal with ING. "It is like in football, if you go into a match looking for a 0-0 result then you normally lose the match.

"The team is strong. For one point we have the drivers' championship, and a few more we have the constructors' title. If we win the race we have everything. So we go to Brazil to try to win everything. It will be interesting to see the race on television and it will be a good show."

Briatore says his team are in a buoyant mood ahead of the race, and he thinks there is no doubt that his Renault team deserve to triumph.

"There is nothing easy in F1, but for sure I go to Brazil with a different spirit than I felt before the race in Japan.

"I believe Renault deserve the championship because Renault was very, very strong all through the season. We are not completely happy with what happened in some cases this season between the federation (FIA) and another team, but if it was for the reason to keep the championship interesting, then they did a good job.

"So it is important to go to Brazil to win the race. We don't go there to finish third or fourth or fifth. That is not the right mentality. We want to go there to win both championships and we will see."

The only concession that Renault are making is in giving Fernando Alonso a more conservative specification of engine compared to teammate Giancarlo Fisichella, in a bid to guarantee his reliability.

"We have a new engine," added Briatore. "Fisichella will have a more powerful engine, and with Fernando we will try to play it safely but we don't want to just finish third or fourth or fifth. I believe the spectators need this. It is big business, it will be a big television event, so let's have fun and fight."

Briatore has also dismissed any talk of the title battle being decided by a controversial on-track collision between Alonso and Michael Schumacher.

However, the amazing coming together between MotoGP title contender Nicky Hayden and his teammate Dani Pedrosa at Estoril yesterday that handed the series lead to Valentino Rossi has highlighted the fact that unforeseen circumstances can always come into play.

"Anything is possible, and we saw what happened yesterday with Valentino what could happen," added Briatore. "I believe Michael is a very professional driver and if he is involved in an accident then he loses the championship anyway. He has a lot to lose and nothing to win.

"After that, I believe in the sport people should be fighting fair. I really don't fear this kind of problem because Michael wants to leave F1 in the right way.

"I know him very well. This talk (of previous collisions) is good for the past and good for the gossip, because people are more interested in Sunday, but it will be normal.

"I have seen the weather forecast and it is 50 percent chance of a wet race. It will be interesting, but it will be a fair race and good fighting between Michael and Fernando, and good fighting between Renault and Ferrari."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I was wrong about Hamilton. uch: 


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I was wrong about Hamilton. uch:
> 
> .


Vell, vee can't be right all the time.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Germany's Bild Newspaper was so excited about Schumi winning the Chinese GP that they wrote, translated here of course....

Schumi super mega turbo cool divine giga galactic.

Sorts sounds like some of the Schumi fans here. 

They also went on to say "He showed the world who's the best, cuts Alonso to shreds and shuts Flavio's trap"


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Bernie gives Schumi a clear warning...*

Bernie warns Schumi as clearly as possible to avoid his prior tactics.

Ecclestone expects fair play in Brazil

Wednesday, October 18th 2006, 10:58 GMT

Bernie Ecclestone believes Michael Schumacher will behave sportingly in his final Formula One Grand Prix in Brazil this weekend.

Renault's Fernando Alonso needs to score just one point at Interlagos to be sure of a second successive Formula One title, even if Ferrari's Schumacher wins the last race of his career before retirement.

Alonso is 10 points clear of Schumacher with both drivers having seven wins each this year.

Ecclestone has shrugged off concerns about the German's record of colliding with rivals in previous title deciders - notably with Damon Hill in 1994 and Jacques Villeneuve in 1997.

"In my opinion, Michael will drive in the most correct manner he has ever driven in Formula One," Ecclestone told The Times newspaper. "He's taken the attitude that if it's going to be, it's going to be."

If he wins in Brazil, Schumacher could retire from Formula One with 92 Grand Prix wins, the same amount as Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost combined.

Ecclestone reckons Schumacher's achievements will never be matched.

"His record will not be eclipsed," Ecclestone added. "Certainly with Ferrari he's the one that drives the team. I'm not sure the other drivers are strong enough, willing enough or put enough into it to do that."


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Ouch*

Webber: Williams move a 'costly mistake'

By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, October 18th 2006, 16:17 GMT

Mark Webber believes he made a 'costly mistake' in signing for Williams - and says he will leave the team after this weekend's race in Brazil with no good memories of his time there.

The Australian had high hopes of scoring his maiden Formula One victory when he made the move from Jaguar Racing at the start of 2005, but his two years at the team delivered just one podium finish at Monaco last year.

After deciding to end his stint and join Red Bull Racing, Webber has now admitted that he was wrong to have ignored manager Flavio Briatore's advice not to sign for Williams.

"Flavio was never keen for me to go to Williams and I know I made a costly mistake by not listening to him," Webber was quoted as saying by the Sydney Morning Herald.

"He was very keen for me to go to Red Bull next season, so I wasn't going to ignore his advice a second time. It's a joint management decision and one we all think is the best option for my career. We've rolled the dice so now we just have to see how it tumbles."

Webber admits that the successes Williams enjoyed in the past proved a big attraction for him - and he was wrong to take that into consideration.

"I've learned that reputations mean nothing - that the past and history does absolutely nothing for you in the present," he said.

"It's very important to respect things that have happened in the past but as has been proved in the last couple of years, it is not an automatic guarantee for success.

"Smarter and cleverer people do (and will continue to) come along and do things differently and better. That's what Formula One is all about and it's vital you stay ahead of the game to be successful."

He added: "I think it's fairly safe to say that I won't be looking back at my two years with Williams with any fond memories.

"When I signed with the team, I was hoping to stay at Williams for a long, long time but it wasn't to be. Frank (Williams) will probably look back at me and think it wasn't successful either."


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Wow, it's been almost 24 hours since the last post.

No conspiracy theories today?

Is it true that Michael hired a gunman to shoot Alonso's tire in the first turn?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I have really no clue how this is going to end up, but part of me thinks that MSchumacher will win the race Sunday.

Smart money is of course on Alonso scoring at least a point, but ... I just don't know.

Anyone else have an educated guess?


.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> Wow, it's been almost 24 hours since the last post.
> 
> No conspiracy theories today?
> 
> Is it true that Michael hired a gunman to shoot Alonso's tire in the first turn?


Nah, Ferrari getting one of the Spyker MF1's to ram Alonso at a critical time would be more likely.

-MrB


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

mrbelk said:


> Nah, Ferrari getting one of the Spyker MF1's to ram Alonso at a critical time would be more likely.
> 
> -MrB


:stupid: I will be highly surprised if Alonso makes it through the race without some sort of contact... :eeps:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Conspiracies abound and all around.*

With Bernie warning Schumi and Massa agreeing too (I guess he got the word also) to play nice we'll have to look to the Ferrari engined teams to do the deed. After all they owe Ferrari big time and this would be the time to pay for those engines.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Ok, now I know what is going to happen.

*Räikkönen* is going to take Alonso out so that MSchumacher can win the driver's title. He might as well prove his blood loyalty to the Tifosi right away. 

BTW, if Spoonface wins it, who gets to have the #1 next year? :dunno:

.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> BTW, if Spoonface wins it, who gets to have the #1 next year? :dunno:
> 
> .


If Alonso DNFs and Michael wins, the champion team carry "0" and "2" on the nose next year.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> If Alonso DNFs and Michael wins, the champion team carry "0" and "2" on the nose next year.


Is that a fact? Rather odd, me thinks.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> If Alonso DNFs and Michael wins, the champion team carry "0" and "2" on the nose next year.


Ok. Good to know.

Has that ever happened before?

.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Yup, happened before in 1993 and 1994.

Nr.1 is bound to the World Champion, not to the team. If a pilot wins the Driver's title and resigns at the end of the season, the team of the latest champion gets the car numbers "0" and "2". The rest of the numbers for the new season are given by the standings of the previous season respectively.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Alex Baumann said:


> Yup, happened before in 1993 and 1994.
> 
> Nr.1 is bound to the World Champion, not to the team. If a pilot wins the Driver's title and resigns at the end of the season, the team of the latest champion gets the car numbers "0" and "2". The rest of the numbers for the new season are given by the standings of the previous season respectively.


How is it that you know these things, know so much? ....Seriously.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> How is it that you know these things, know so much? ....Seriously.


The Godfather knows all.

Lots of F1 news out today: http://www.grandprix.com/index.html

Same drivers for BMW, Williams sponsorship, etc.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17641.html

This pretty much seals the direction, which F1 is heading to. It's becoming more and more a Mickey Mouse event.

O' Max 'nd Bernie, you can be proud with what you have done with F1 and what you are doing to it. May you both burn in hell, whose fire is ignited by the used tires on the circuits around the world.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> O' Max 'nd Bernie, you can be proud with what you have done with F1 and what you are doing to it. May you both burn in hell, whose fire is ignited by the used tires on the circuits around the world.


*I am a TURD!*










.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17641.html
> 
> This pretty much seals the direction, which F1 is heading to. It's becoming more and more a Mickey Mouse event.
> 
> O' Max 'nd Bernie, you can be proud with what you have done with F1 and what you are doing to it. May you both burn in hell, whose fire is ignited by the used tires on the circuits around the world.


Meanwhile ALMS is getting better, with more cars, teams (Rahal/Letterman just announced they'll run), and events.

So F1 is gonna have a lucky dog rule? Next they'll be running on banked ovals with restrictor plates.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

One hour to go and I must say that I am a bit nervous for some reason!

I just made a 10 EUR wager that the top three will be Räikkönen Massa Alonso (pays 4.25 X if I am correct).

Is anyone watching? :dunno: 


.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> One hour to go and I must say that I am a bit nervous for some reason! I just made a 10 EUR wager that the top three will be R***228;ikk***246;nen Massa Alonso (pays 4.25 X if I am correct).Is anyone watching? :dunno:
> .


We watched.

It's great that Alonso and Michelin have won.

What was going on with MS in the middle of the race when he slowed drastically, twice, at different turns at different times?


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

First of all, congrats for Alonso for winning the championship.

Now on to Michael, what a race.

Haters, who have criticized him through his career for not passing on the circuit and winning races in the pitstops, should record this race and watch it over and over. (which I doubt that haters would want to keep any bit of him in their archives. They are uber-happy seeing him gone).

He has simply outclassed everyone on the circuit today, except for the top three. If he didn't have that tire puncture, I am confident that he would've outclassed them as well.

It will take quite a time for Fisichella to recover after Michael paralyzed him in the Senna-S. I bet he had to run to change his pants after the race.

As for the overtake maneuver on Kimi, there's nothing can be said about it, you have to watch it. 

Watching him pulverizing the fastest laps and his rivals one after the other, I couldn't help but asked myself why he quitted at all. 

Anyway, I wish him all the best and success. 

Danke Meister :thumbup:


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## WAM (Jan 30, 2002)

Good race, well done to Massa, and a double well done to Alonso. Great job by Schumi to get back to 4th. Not sure what happened to Raikonnen, he was on the pace earlier on and then just slowly dropped back.


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## Shafi (Aug 20, 2003)

Congrats to Alonso and Renault. What an exciting season this year. I LOVE the new qualifying format, and the resurgence of Ferrari was spectacular. Although sad to see Schumi retire, I am really looking forward to next year! Schumacher out, Ross Brawn on "sabattical", Alonso at Mclaren, Kimi at Ferrari, no further engine development, single tire supplier, and BMW and Honda making great progress this year all put together should really make things interesting next year. 

I will miss Schumi  i was hopng to see him win or at least on the podium for his final race. Bummer of a race for him, but the bright side is that a Ferrari won.

I agree with Alex that its hard to accept his retirement when he can still just run circles around the (much younger!) competition. But I think that in his heart, he knew it was the right time. 

Danke Schumi! Simply the best.

Forza Ferrari!


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

MS has had good luck most of his career. Yes I know you make your luck and all. But anyone who's watched F1 for the last 20 years has to admit he had luck break his way more than most. Well that luck had run out in the last two races. Simple as that. 

Certainly MS drove well, but there are others that given that car could have driven just as well. Kimi for one.

It was the Ferrari that outclassed anything on the circuit but all too often MS is blindly credited. Evidence Massa in a Ferrari.

So tell me please, why isn't MS driving next year?


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## billinstuart (Oct 21, 2006)

Only a few drivers possess a "superticket", and Schumacher was the best because of his consistency. Unlike some other drivers, he had an uncanny ability to avoid situations which would hurt his track position. Never any uncalculated passes. "To finish first you must first finish", and he almost always did finish. An offtrack excursion was rare. Prior to Schumacher it was Prost (not Senna, he was too squirrely). Who will take over as heir to the throne?


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## billinstuart (Oct 21, 2006)

Franka, driving at the pinnacle requires tremendous concentration, and mental attitude is paramount. Once a driver feels he is not at his peak, it's time to retire. If your heart isn't in it, you become a danger to both yourself and those on the track with you (and God knows there's enough doofus' on the track already). It takes courage and discipline to admit it, and it was these very traits that made him great.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> First of all, congrats for Alonso for winning the championship.
> 
> Now on to Michael, what a race.
> 
> Watching him pulverizing the fastest laps and his rivals one after the other, I couldn't help but asked myself why he quitted at all.


Make you wonder if he will stay retired. I wonder what limits Ferrari has placed upon him to keep him on the sidelines.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Doesn't he have a life long agreement? Isn't he going to be involved in the team? I thought so.

We all know driving at the pinnacle takes concentration and fitness and a certain attitude and on and on. I think we all know that. So its patronizing.

But still the question remains. Why did MS stop, now? And why did he have to park his car at Racass and why did he do some of the other stupid things he did? I believe the correct and honest answer connects these questions and I believe we will never hear the true reason. Maybe some day, a few years down the road, he may talk but it would not surprise me if he never talked publically.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

franka said:


> But still the question remains. Why did MS stop, now?


IMHO, he was afraid of being Kimi's teammate next year. Better to go out (nearly) on top rather than to be seen as getting slow and old compared to your teammate.

Great season. It'll be hard to top it next year.:thumbup:


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

I have not been the biggest MS fan over the years, but today's race was sentimental to me because of him. Skills, character, personality...everything aside, the simple fact that this guy has witnessed Mansell and Prost, battled Senna and Hill, outlasted Villeneuve and Hakkinen, and raced Alonso and Kimi is astonishing (that's one fourth of the entire F1 hall of fame).

Even though MS didn't win today, I think he drove one of the most epic races I've ever seen. It was not a perfect ending for MS, it was a solemn and stirring one. His performance was imperfect but extremely powerful nonetheless. IMO it makes his glorious and extraordinary career more real. I have nothing but respect for the man at the moment.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> One hour to go and I must say that I am a bit nervous for some reason!
> 
> I just made a 10 EUR wager that the top three will be Räikkönen Massa Alonso (pays 4.25 X if I am correct).
> 
> ...


Close, but no cigar.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Schumi's great, so great that a stupid error on his part cut his tire and it's not even mentioned as such. Instead his drive to recover is the talk. 

If Montoya had done the identical move he would be castigated.

Also missing from the conversation are the two (maybe more that we didn't see) corners he overcooked and had to recover from. 

Again, if it was Montoya, the announcers would be all over that.

I've said it before, Micheal is at the top but he is not as good as his legend makes him out to be. If he was as good as he's made out to be he wouldn't be quiting now.

The phrase greatest driver ever is incorrect. The winningest driver ever is the appropriate phrase. But again, legend takes over and feeds itself.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

If the four Speed commentators (Hobbs, Matchet, Varsha, Windsor) had gushed over MS any more than they did yesterday, they would have needed to get a room. Jeez... :yikes:

I will not miss that aspect of it. Nevetheless, congrats to MS.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

SteveT said:


> I wonder what limits Ferrari has placed upon him to keep him on the sidelines.





franka said:


> Doesn't he have a life long agreement?


I just can't imagine MS -- who is worth $500M+ -- would allow Ferrari or anyone else to bind him like that. I'm sure he is free to get involved with any team in any motorsports series he wants once 2006 ends. Reportedly, Audi already offered him a deal to do either Le Mans or DTM.


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## billinstuart (Oct 21, 2006)

I didn't watch the race, but if indeed Schumacher made a couple mistakes, this is all the more reason he retired...he himself realized he was over the hill. Prost retired in glory..but didn't Mansell try to reinvent himself and stepped on his weenie? Great drivers know when to quit, and Schumacher is one of the greats. I still maintain consistency makes a good driver...Schumacher was consistently good. Ferrari has done an admirable job in providing him a decent, reliable ride. Not always on the pole, but fast enough and dependable. As I said earlier, to finish first you must first finish. Even if you start 26th, you'll finish near the points if you simply finish.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

billinstuart said:


> I didn't watch the race, but if indeed Schumacher made a couple mistakes, this is all the more reason he retired...he himself realized he was over the hill. Prost retired in glory..but didn't Mansell try to reinvent himself and stepped on his weenie? Great drivers know when to quit, and Schumacher is one of the greats. I still maintain consistency makes a good driver...Schumacher was consistently good. Ferrari has done an admirable job in providing him a decent, reliable ride. Not always on the pole, but fast enough and dependable. As I said earlier, to finish first you must first finish. Even if you start 26th, you'll finish near the points if you simply finish.


Some might see them as mistakes due to his advanced age, but I don't. In the race in Brazil, he was pushing beyond the limit and he knew that as well. (Read Jean Todt's post race interview. Oh wait, may be don't..It's Jean Todt after all, isn't it? Ferrari's team is not a reliable source. I'm sure Villeneuve will have his take on that soon)

As for Ferrari providing him a decent reliable ride, that is true on one side, but on the other side, it was Schumacher who helped developing the car along with the tech guys at Ferrari. But haters are too proud to admit Schumacher's contribution, that equals self-betrayal for them to admit that Schumacher did anything good in all these years as part of Gestivo Sportiva.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Alex...you are such the hater hater.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Now Michael has even designed the car.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

billinstuart said:


> I didn't watch the race, but if indeed Schumacher made a couple mistakes, this is all the more reason he retired...he himself realized he was over the hill. Prost retired in glory..but didn't Mansell try to reinvent himself and stepped on his weenie? Great drivers know when to quit, and Schumacher is one of the greats. I still maintain consistency makes a good driver...Schumacher was consistently good. Ferrari has done an admirable job in providing him a decent, reliable ride. Not always on the pole, but fast enough and dependable. As I said earlier, to finish first you must first finish. Even if you start 26th, you'll finish near the points if you simply finish.


Very good. Now we are getting closer to the truth.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Due to a likely conflict of interest in the near future, I will no longer bash Ferrari. :eeps: 


 


.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

dwette said:


> Alex...you are such the hater hater.


Prove me wrong.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Alex Baumann said:


> Prove me wrong.


Its not required


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Due to a likely conflict of interest in the near future, I will no longer bash Ferrari. :eeps:
> 
> 
> 
> .


I hope that Iceman will change his drinking habits. Time to move from Vodka to Vino Rosso


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> I hope that Iceman will change his drinking habits. Time to move from Vodka to Vino Rosso


That will probably happen, and he is buying a place in Milano. Perhaps that will instill some non-******* culture in him. :bigpimp:

.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> That will probably happen, and he is buying a place in Milano. Perhaps that will instill some non-******* culture in him. :bigpimp:
> 
> .


Oh, I didn't know about the apartment purchase in Milan.

I've read that Mark Arnall, his trainer, is also going with him to Ferrari.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Oh, I didn't know about the apartment purchase in Milan.
> 
> I've read that Mark Arnall, his trainer, is also going with him to Ferrari.


Yep. But I am not looking forward to seeing Räikkönen's dad in the paddock all dressed in red. He will look like Santa Claus. 

.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Yep. But I am not looking forward to seeing Räikkönen's dad in the paddock all dressed in red. He will look like Santa Claus.
> 
> .


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Some might see them as mistakes due to his advanced age, but I don't. In the race in Brazil, he was pushing beyond the limit and he knew that as well. (Read Jean Todt's post race interview. Oh wait, may be don't..It's Jean Todt after all, isn't it? Ferrari's team is not a reliable source. I'm sure Villeneuve will have his take on that soon)
> 
> As for Ferrari providing him a decent reliable ride, that is true on one side, but on the other side, it was Schumacher who helped developing the car along with the tech guys at Ferrari. But haters are too proud to admit Schumacher's contribution, that equals self-betrayal for them to admit that Schumacher did anything good in all these years as part of Gestivo Sportiva.


Like I've said before: all the driving talent in the world (+1); really bad sportmanship on the track (-1). Do the math.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

franka said:


> Schumi's great, so great that a stupid error on his part cut his tire and it's not even mentioned as such. Instead his drive to recover is the talk.


I'm thinking that if Alonso's tire had been cut the same way by contact with Massa, people would be screaming about how underhanded it was of Ferrari to do that. :dunno:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

But haters are too proud to admit Schumacher's contribution, that equals self-betrayal for them to admit that Schumacher did anything good in all these yearsQUOTE]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ah but that's not true. See my post #1077. I gave him credit and other places too. I think you just don't see it.

You see its not that anyone hates MS. Thats a strong word that should not be thrown around at all. 

It's just that he is not the god that his admirers make him out to be. He's a great driver no doubt, but he's also had a good run with Bridgestone when they devoted the vast majority of their time to Ferrari, Ferrari has given him a great car, he's had very good luck (just one example is it was always his team mate that broke), he was the benificiary of many many bad calls and so on.

No one hates MS. We just object to his less that ethical means and to the favors that Ferrari has been given over the years due to their relationship with the FIA, Bernie, etc. And we object to him being recommended for sainthood.

So again I will say he is a great driver, one of the best, but he is not the greatest ever.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

bjf123 said:


> I'm thinking that if Alonso's tire had been cut the same way by contact with Massa, people would be screaming about how underhanded it was of Ferrari to do that. :dunno:


That's a different point altogether. You certainly can make it but you are missing my point which was that the announcers don't see MS as making an error, where if it was JPM they would.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

franka said:


> ...the announcers don't see MS as making an error...


When it comes to Schumi, the Speed announcers model for behavior seems to be the young female Beatles fans of the 60s.


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

franka said:


> That's a different point altogether. You certainly can make it but you are missing my point which was that the announcers don't see MS as making an error, where if it was JPM they would.


I agree, they did overlook his mistake of not clearing Giancarlo on the pass. They were more impressed by his hard charge to try to get to the lead, which I think he would have done without the cut tire. You have to admit, though, JPM made so many mistakes, it was hard to ignore. Some friends of mine would wonder before each race if JPM would have the dummy in the car with him, which he did for many races.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

dwette said:


> When it comes to Schumi, the Speed announcers model for behavior seems to be the young female Beatles fans of the 60s.


Did anyone (other than me  ) catch the quote they made about how Schumacher is more "mechanically sympathetic" to his vehicles, and this helped allowed him and his vehicles to excel... :dunno:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1947148&postcount=909

:angel:


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Salvator said:


> Did anyone (other than me  ) catch the quote they made about how Schumacher is more "mechanically sympathetic" to his vehicles, and this helped allowed him and his vehicles to excel... :dunno:
> 
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1947148&postcount=909
> 
> :angel:


That begs the question...will there ever be the Schumacher edition of Transformers, and will it be available to us in the US?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

dwette said:


> When it comes to Schumi, the Speed announcers model for behavior seems to be the young female Beatles fans of the 60s.


That's a great example.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Real Madrid Football Club will be sponsoring an F1 team next year. I'm guessing that it will be Mclaren.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Real Madrid Football Club will be sponsoring an F1 team next year. I'm guessing that it will be Mclaren.


They will sponsor for one race - the Spanish GP to be held in: you guessed it, Barcelona. :rofl:

As to who the team is (or car), I am not so sure about McLaren being it, but that is actually a likely choice because Alonso is a huge Athletico Madrid supporter (even though he is from Oviedo, but their teams always sucks).

Anyway, this deal has been in the works for about 6 months, so it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

BTW, does Berford need to start a "Formula 1 2007 - SPOILER" thread now? :dunno: 

:bigpimp: 


.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> They will sponsor for one race - the Spanish GP to be held in: you guessed it, Barcelona. :rofl:
> 
> As to who the team is (or car), I am not so sure about McLaren being it, but that is actually a likely choice because Alonso is a huge Athletico Madrid supporter (even though he is from Oviedo, but their teams always sucks).
> 
> ...


Uh. I remember reading somewhere that Alonso was a Real fan


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Uh. I remember reading somewhere that Alonso was a Real fan


My bad: I meant Real and not Athletico ... sorry, I am only interested in real football, i.e., The Premiership. :bigpimp:

.


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## billinstuart (Oct 21, 2006)

"Mechanically sympathetic"...good term. Good point. Drivers who thrash their equipment, charge the corners, ride the elephant turds consistently pay the consequences in more DNF's. They may have some spirited drives and are great fun to watch, but you just don't see them on the podium as often as some others. I believe Schumacher has a good mechanical sense, senses the reasonable limits of his machinery, and is able to offer meaningful input for the mechanics and designers to improve the car, and certainly tailor it to his driving style. Many drivers can't do this. 
As for his being favored by the promotors..it's all about money. He's a big draw in an expensive sport. If he and Ferrari draw fans to the races who spend money, hey, thats what it's all about. It ain't about the racing, it's about money! And advertising.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Good grief.

His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum of Dubai, has given Spoonface a fancy going-away gift: an island at "The World" island project in Dubai.

 

Right.


.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Good grief.
> 
> His Royal Highness Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum of Dubai, has given Spoonface a fancy going-away gift: an island at "The World" island project in Dubai.
> 
> ...


I wonder if he got Germany, or Italy? :dunno:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Salvator said:


> I wonder if he got Germany, or Italy? :dunno:


Get this: it is Antarctica. 

.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> BTW, does Berford need to start a "Formula 1 2007 - SPOILER" thread now? :dunno:
> 
> :bigpimp:
> 
> .


Current Formula 1 thread got way too long. It's fine if we discuss all things F1 but I'd love to see separate race threads.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Some might see them as mistakes due to his advanced age, but I don't. In the race in Brazil, he was pushing beyond the limit and he knew that as well. (Read Jean Todt's post race interview. Oh wait, may be don't..It's Jean Todt after all, isn't it? Ferrari's team is not a reliable source. I'm sure Villeneuve will have his take on that soon)
> 
> As for Ferrari providing him a decent reliable ride, that is true on one side, but on the other side, it was Schumacher who helped developing the car along with the tech guys at Ferrari. But haters are too proud to admit Schumacher's contribution, that equals self-betrayal for them to admit that Schumacher did anything good in all these years as part of Gestivo Sportiva.


You're spot on again buddy.

BTW, recent driver discussions got ridiculous. They bring nothing to the table so I'm staying out of them.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Get this: it is Antarctica.
> 
> .


I wonder if there is a "cold day in hell" joke in there somewhere&#8230; :lmao:


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## bjf123 (Oct 6, 2005)

F1Crazy said:


> Current Formula 1 thread got way too long. It's fine if we discuss all things F1 but I'd love to see separate race threads.


:stupid:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> BTW, does Berford need to start a "Formula 1 2007 - SPOILER" thread now? :dunno:
> 
> :bigpimp:
> 
> .


I thought about that. Are you eager to get Schumi out of the spotlight (or headlights)?


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

berford said:


> I thought about that. Are you eager to get Schumi out of the spotlight (or headlights)?


There's nothing left to be discussed about him next year.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> There's nothing left to be discussed about him next year.


Unless he takes the seat for AUDI in DTM. :eeps:

But that would be a different thread. 

.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> I thought about that. Are you eager to get Schumi out of the spotlight (or headlights)?


No, nothing like that. I can ill afford to speak ill of Ferrari. 

.


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## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

Patrick said:


> No, nothing like that. I can ill afford to speak ill of Ferrari.
> 
> .


Did Guido and Tony from Ferrari show up at your house and threaten your kneecaps or something? :dunno:

"Ehhh, Patrick... you besta nota talka bad abouta Ferrari no more, capische?" :rofl:

(Please excuse the bad "Italiano" spelling above... I sound much more realistic and funny in person... :angel: )


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> No, nothing like that. I can ill afford to speak ill of Ferrari.
> 
> .


Ummmmmm, why would that be?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Ummmmmm, why would that be?




.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Michelin did an excellent job of winning on their way out. They could have backed off to save money but they didn't. They stuck with and supported their partners to the end.

Congratulations to Michelin for winning the championship, for the excellent season and for their demonstration of championship character.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

So Brawn is leaving and Todt has become CEO. Wonder what Kimi is thinking?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Brawn is leaving for a year, Todt is still the team principle and Spoonface will be assisting him.

Sounds like Kimi knows what he was doing.

:eeps: 


.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Brawn is leaving for a year, Todt is still the team principle and Spoonface will be assisting him.
> 
> Sounds like Kimi knows what he was doing.
> 
> ...


Schumi as assistant....ummmmmmm.:slap:


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