# Lexus' way of showing the IS350 being faster than the E90 330i



## mitch1340 (Mar 25, 2005)

They cheated by presenting the whole thing as some kind of a race. It wasn't really a race but a rehearsed excercise of one car driving behind the other, like the times your wife follows you when you have to drop off the car at the dealer .


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## .Nikki. (Aug 10, 2005)

mitch1340 said:


> They cheated by presenting the whole thing as some kind of a race. It wasn't really a race but a rehearsed excercise of one car driving behind the other, like the times your wife follows you when you have to drop off the car at the dealer .


thanks for the info, i'm still waiting for this stupid thing to load and i have cable. it's on 61% now.


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## .Nikki. (Aug 10, 2005)

ok it loaded and all i can say is "wow".


the bmw started at least a second after the lexus and it looked like it was just kind of casually driving. then it just putted behind the lexus for about 10 seconds. that was it. the whole "race" was about 10 seconds long. at the end everyone was booing and the guy with the loudspeaker says "well it looks like the bmw was a little slow off the line" hahahhaha so rehearsed! i didn't hear anything that they said after that though.

no doubt the lexus is faster, they don't need to make up a little rehearsed race to show that, they should have just raced for real because the lexus would have won anyway.


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## mitch1340 (Mar 25, 2005)

Here's another older BMW killer...remember?


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

mitch1340 said:


> Here's another older BMW killer...remember?


Yup. That car was awesome according to MotorTrend back in the day. I was just a kid but I could still see it was a pile of crap.

Also being just a kid is my excuse for reading MotorTrend. :tsk:


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

mitch1340 said:


> They cheated by presenting the whole thing as some kind of a race. It wasn't really a race but a rehearsed excercise of one car driving behind the other, like the times your wife follows you when you have to drop off the car at the dealer .


They had a similar exercise (but between an M3 and C55) at a Mercedes event I attended a year or so ago. Since it was a Mercedes promotional event, I wasn't surprised that it favored the Mercedes :dunno: .

Besides, it is clear the IS _is_ faster than the 330. Straight line performance isn't what the Bimmer is all about anyway :dunno: .

Based on everything I've read, Lexus has indeed created a better IS (though I look forward to making that determination myself) - I don't think 330 drivers should feel threatened by that.

-j


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## hawk2100n (Sep 19, 2005)

Car and Driver recently compared some sport sedans. The e90 got first and the lexus was second. Car and Driver said that the lexus couldnt match the steering precision and overall feel of the car even though the bimmer was a pre production and the dashboard shorted out during the test. Also only the IS250 is available with a manual transmission.

Lexus, "The passionate pursuit of perfection."
Car and Driver, "One step closer to perfection, hold the Passion"

C&D, "The reason that BMW's win all of our comparos is the same reason that runners prefer running shoes over muclucks, they just work better at the task at hand.


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

BlackChrome said:


> To be fair, that BMW picture isn't exactly a model year 1990.


Right, as a '90 3-Series would be an E30 and not an E36.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

That Lexus event blew chunks. Last year's was better x 1000000.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Lexus vs Bmw*

I think what you people need to understand is that lexus and bmw are not targeting the same market, they are in slightly different market niches. I mean BMW is targeted to luxury-sports car enthusiasts who want to feel the road and want to cut close corners and push the car on the track to its limit. It has bullet-proof handling I mean i have never in my life ever seen a BMW flipped even in the worst of accidents. so its a driver's car where they keep the driver in mind by concentrating on the performance and handling of the car rather then luxury.

Iam bringing in mercedes jus for making my point. Mercedes has always been elegant and luxurious. The car is aimed for people who have luxury as the first preference but also want that extra torque and hp under there foot (AMG and Brabus). The interiors are splendidly created so that you feel you you are in the utmost luxury.

However when we come to lexus it is to be honest a mixture of both worlds. . e .where it combines luxury and performance in a sophisticated way. There cars may be fast but are not meant for pushing to the limits. They are for people who like someone mentioned earlier will never turn off traction control. They are nice vehicles that are really nice to drive and do outrun most vehicles on the road however do not have the agility and handling of a BMW. But they have one of the most elegant looking interiors that are simple but yet serve the purpose of being luxurious. They have one of the BEST DESIGNED MODELS. . .that you can come across ever since they started back in 1989!

I dunno the only exception would be that ES250 in a picture below with the old 3 series back from the early 90's (1989-1991)

The GS (93-97) designed by an italian (giorgio giuagro cant remember his last name ) is splendid looks new even today

The GS (98-2005) is magnificient

The new GS (2006) is top-notch

I have driven and owned all 3 models of these cars which are in essence direct competition with BMW's 5 series. I still have the First Gen GS, because I love the exterior design - its a unique european design which still stands out today.

Anyways back to our comparison BMW 330i is not really comparable IMO to the IS350. BECAUSE. .the Lexus has a larger engine displacement then the 330i so obviously its going to be faster. . .but handling wise with my eyes closed I would handsdown give the crown to the BMW 330i. What might be a good comparision is the M3 vs IS350 :bigpimp: no actually thats still not fair :rofl: but you guys get the point the lexus line-up is not comparable to the BMW fleet, they are 2 very successful cars in the market but for different kind of car drivers :thumbup:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

bimmer7 said:


> I think what you people need to understand is that lexus and bmw are not targeting the same market, they are in slightly different market niches. I mean BMW is targeted to luxury-sports car enthusiasts who want to feel the road and want to cut close corners and push the car on the track to its limit. It has bullet-proof handling I mean i have never in my life ever seen a BMW flipped even in the worst of accidents. so its a driver's car where they keep the driver in mind by concentrating on the performance and handling of the car rather then luxury.


If you watch the video of the Lexus IS350 intro at the NAIAS you'll discover Lexus execs plainly said they wanted to build the best car in the entry level luxury sports sedan field - class leading performance is mentioned.

From what I've read they failed. And now Lexus and its acolytes are backtracking and babbling about luxury and power.

I'll still drive the IS350 but i'm not expecting much after reading so many reviews saying the car is good just not BMW good.

FWIW, Lexus has only had 1 nice looking car - the SC300/400. The rest a bland, slab sided accountant cars. Nothing aggressive or sexy about them.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

blueguydotcom said:


> If you watch the video of the Lexus IS350 intro at the NAIAS you'll discover Lexus execs plainly said they wanted to build the best car in the entry level luxury sports sedan field - class leading performance is mentioned.
> 
> From what I've read they failed. And now Lexus and its acolytes are backtracking and babbling about luxury and power.
> 
> ...


What are you talking about ? Lexus has had some of the best looking cars in the luxury car market. Frankly enough IMO the ES250 posted earlier is ugly and to be honest I am not big fan of the SC300/400 (only the earlier ones look nice with the old style rear tail-lights) either but like the new SC430. The BMW's have been quite ugly if we look at there design history. 
You still see old LS400's on the road and they have air bag suspension and drive so comfortably yet at the same time look elegant you have to give LEXUS credit for that! They have in the last 15 years taken a huge chunk of the luxury touring performance sedan market! and are eatting there way in! they are going to transform themselves slowly into the best blend of performance and luxury altogether . . .I mean they have only been in the market for 15 yeaRS BMW 25-30 years. .Mercedes >100years. . .still do you still see people driving only MERCS? HELL NO? only BMW's? HELL NO? only LEXUS? Hell No! but yet a big chunk of todays drivers prefer lexus because they are japense pioneers that have the best blend of both worlds luxury and performance. . .BUT REMEMBER when i say performance I dont mean sport luxury performance that you get out of any BMW you drive that was ever built to date. . .because the engineering of german architects will always be unique and leading edge for years unless a multitude of japanese miracles like SUPRA 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5 occurs! :rofl: 
you get the point . . .
cheers...


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

bimmer7 said:


> What are you talking about ? Lexus has had some of the best looking cars in the luxury car market. Frankly enough IMO the ES250 posted earlier is ugly and to be honest I am not big fan of the SC300/400 (only the earlier ones look nice with the old style rear tail-lights) either but like the new SC430. The BMW's have been quite ugly if we look at there design history.


Shrug, to each his own.



> You still see old LS400's on the road and they have air bag suspension and drive so comfortably yet at the same time look elegant you have to give LEXUS credit for that!


It looks like a knock off mercedes and it's a blue hair car.



> They have in the last 15 years taken a huge chunk of the luxury touring performance sedan market! and are eatting there way in!


They sold a luxury car at discount prices. Again, not knocking the marketing skill. Just find their cars are utterly bland and without any verve (from the seat or watching the car).



> still do you still see people driving only MERCS? HELL NO? only BMW's? HELL NO? only LEXUS? Hell No! but yet a big chunk of todays drivers prefer lexus because they are japense pioneers that have the best blend of both worlds luxury and performance


You keep using the words performance but I've driven lexus cars...they're not performers in any sense of the word. A 745i at 100 feels planted and perfect. In corners the handles like something a 1000 lbs lighter. It's uncanny. The lexus drives exactly as it looks - like a Buick. floaty, squishy, soft, bobbling and without any poise. The Lexus lineup is designed from the getgo to attract joe american consumer (as is toyota) - ie for fat people who want to recline in a lounger and not actually drive the car.



> you get the point . . .
> cheers...


I get that you like Lexus in some fashion. to me they're just cadillacs/oldsmobiles/buicks/lincolns with better marketing.


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

swchang said:


> That Lexus event blew chunks. Last year's was better x 1000000.


Really? That's not what I want to hear. . .ours is coming up soon.

How were they different (other than the cars)?

-j


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> From what I've read they failed. .


From what I've read, they've closed the gap further. So, I guess you could say Lexus failed to knock BMW off its perch, but you could also say Lexus has come closer to doing so.

IMO, improvement is a good thing, and I never expect Lexus to overtake BMW in the handling and fun-to-drive departments, anyway :dunno: .

-j


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

jim said:


> Really? That's not what I want to hear. . .ours is coming up soon.
> 
> How were they different (other than the cars)?
> 
> -j


Fewer cars, fewer competitors, fewer cars of competitors, longer lines, no real lunch, only finger foods, stupid rigged "Lexus vs BMW" videos, an annoying "TV reporter," so on and so forth.

Gift is a national Zagat's guide to restaurants and Paul McCartney's new CD.

Some people said there were a lot of people there who didn't care a hoot about cars but signed up because they read about it on freebie sites.

Still, if I hadn't gone last year, I would've thought it rocked.


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## NaTuReB0Y (Aug 23, 2005)

Numbers don't lie..............


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Jim: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180674


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

jim said:


> IMO, improvement is a good thing, and I never expect Lexus to overtake BMW in the handling and fun-to-drive departments, anyway :dunno: .
> 
> -j


They promised it. They said the IS350 would be the class leader. I'm not big on corporate suits (usually salesmen) lying to people or making promises that aren't true.

Sorry, personal issue. Because of corporate lies I'm stuck going on a business trip to a hell-hole next week - Sacramento (actually Roseville) California.


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

swchang said:


> Fewer cars, fewer competitors, fewer cars of competitors, longer lines, no real lunch, only finger foods, stupid rigged "Lexus vs BMW" videos, an annoying "TV reporter," so on and so forth.
> 
> Gift is a national Zagat's guide to restaurants and Paul McCartney's new CD.
> 
> ...


Ok, now I feel a little bit better! Thanks for explaining.

-j


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> They promised it. They said the IS350 would be the class leader. I'm not big on corporate suits (usually salesmen) lying to people or making promises that aren't true.
> 
> Sorry, personal issue. Because of corporate lies I'm stuck going on a business trip to a hell-hole next week - Sacramento (actually Roseville) California.


Yeah, marketers do tend to utilize hyperbole from time to time, and I understand your distaste with that.

However, general terms like 'class leader', etc. . .allow marketers to accurately make statements without really giving a good idea about what they mean.

For instance, in straight-line acceleration, the IS 350 *does* seem to be the class leader. The same could probably also be said about its build-quality and durability, luxury appointments, tehcnological advancements, value, service, etc. . .

So, while the IS clearly does not knock BMW off its perch as class leader (when all objective and subjective measures are taken into account), it is accurate to generally say the Lexus is the class leader without explaining in what category of class leadership it leads. It is up to the educated consumer to learn exactly what is meant by that advertisement, unfortunately (or fortunately, if you're a marketer  ).

I hope your trip isn't too painful :beerchug: .

-j


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

jim said:


> Yeah, marketers do tend to utilize hyperbole from time to time, and I understand your distaste with that.
> 
> However, general terms like 'class leader', etc. . .allow marketers to accurately make statements without really giving a good idea about what they mean.
> 
> ...


Good points.

And sigh, I've got another day here. Can't wait to get home. Don't tell the Houston people but I think I'd pick Houston over Sacramento/Roseville. At least people in Houston are friendly.


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## jim (Jan 3, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Good points.
> 
> And sigh, I've got another day here. Can't wait to get home. Don't tell the Houston people but I think I'd pick Houston over Sacramento/Roseville. At least people in Houston are friendly.


:lmao:


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