# My Diesel addiction continues.....



## sunilsf (Sep 22, 2003)

MarcusSDCA said:


> Thanks. Yes, Angels Landing!
> 
> $21,500 out the door (although I paid no sales tax....must do that here in CA)
> Package One, 17K miles, also note there is about $3000 worth of OEM VW extras: tail lights, 17" alloys and tires, aero kit, spoiler, and non OEM: tinting, Motorola Bluetooth.


Awesome deal! Sounds like a good car.

I'm tempted, but am wondering if it makes more sense to wait for the 50 state compliant ones to come out this Fall... newer engine design, etc.

p.s.: if you ever go back to Zion's, you have to do the 2-day hike down the river.


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

sunilsf said:


> Awesome deal! Sounds like a good car.
> 
> I'm tempted, but am wondering if it makes more sense to wait for the 50 state compliant ones to come out this Fall... newer engine design, etc.
> 
> p.s.: if you ever go back to Zion's, you have to do the 2-day hike down the river.


Good advice...I will be going back to Zion I'm sure.....it will only take me about 11 gallons of diesel to get there too!!

I thought about waiting for the 2008 50 state TDI but my guess is that it would be close to 30K given all the options that were on my car and I just didn't want to wait. They are predicting April or May 2008


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

I *might* sell my STI next year and get a one of those new TDI's. I really miss the MPG I used to get with my Jetta TDI. I don't think I really need 2 performance cars and the AWD in the winter with the STI is great until the snow gets too deep and then it's as useless as any other car on the road. 30K for the new Jetta sounds kind of expensive though, are you sure about that price? It would be nice to have the TDI for racking up the mileage and then when I want to have fun or for certain purposes I have my M3. :thumbup: Maybe I'll just wait and see what BMW diesels come out, 30K for a Jetta is a bit much, IMO.


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

Moderato said:


> I *might* sell my STI next year and get a one of those new TDI's. I really miss the MPG I used to get with my Jetta TDI. I don't think I really need 2 performance cars and the AWD in the winter with the STI is great until the snow gets too deep and then it's as useless as any other car on the road. 30K for the new Jetta sounds kind of expensive though, are you sure about that price? It would be nice to have the TDI for racking up the mileage and then when I want to have fun or for certain purposes I have my M3. :thumbup: Maybe I'll just wait and see what BMW diesels come out, 30K for a Jetta is a bit much, IMO.


OK, sorry for the confusion.

My Jetta had an original sticker price of $25,700 plus it has $4000 worth of OEM upgrades on it. (body kit, spoiler, VW 17" rims, silver tail lights, painting & install fees, etc) I assume the sticker on the next gen Jetta TDI will be about the same or a little more. (26K) If I wanted all of the extra body stuff on the 2008 I would probably have to pay close to 30K. I paid $21,500 for my 2006 with 16K miles on it.

The pricing on the VW TDIs has been all over the map in the last 2 years. At the height of the gas-price events in the spring of 2006 the TDIs were selling new at dealers for 1000-2000 OVER MSRP! By Jan 2007 they were selling for a few hundred over invoice (at some dealers) 2 things happened from what I've read: 1: VW started making extra TDIs to help with the demand and then over did it. Some dealers had 20-30 TDIs on their lot and were advertsing them for 300 over invoice (see http://forums.tdiclub.com/ ) 2: The price of gas fell a dollar a gallon and people forgot about getting better fuel economy.

I'm going to guess that the new 2008 TDI will be selling for full sticker in California when it gets released. 40***37; more HP and torque and 47 mpg freeway......it's going to be a real Prius killer here.


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

MarcusSDCA said:


> OK, sorry for the confusion.
> 
> My Jetta had an original sticker price of $25,700 plus it has $4000 worth of OEM upgrades on it. (body kit, spoiler, VW 17" rims, silver tail lights, painting & install fees, etc) I assume the sticker on the next gen Jetta TDI will be about the same or a little more. (26K) If I wanted all of the extra body stuff on the 2008 I would probably have to pay close to 30K. I paid $21,500 for my 2006 with 16K miles on it.
> 
> ...


I'm not 100% positive but I think that the new TDI will not run on biodiesel. Anyway, if I do sell the STI for TDI it isn't because I don't like the STI...I love it...but the cost and next year my job might require 60+ mile a day commutes, so my priority will be maximum fuel economy and longevity. (i.e. I want a car I can get 200K + miles out of NO QUESTIONS ASKED) So I'm thinking I might get one of the new TDI's because althought the MPG's on my 01 Jettta were great, the car could barely get out of it's own way (90HP, plenty of TQ but a 5K redline that didn't really matter, LOL). I chipped it, but that just made the clutch slip at low rpms. I put on an aftermarket suspension but the FWD with Open differential, didn't really make it any more exciting. The timing belt needed changing every 60K miles. The intake manifold would get clogged from emissions "solutions" and need cleaning every 60K miles. When I added it up the savings from the MPG's didn't really make a difference. All of that drove me (no pun intended) into the arms of an 04 STI which came with it's own "baggage."

Now things are different though. We have ULSD. FWD comes with EDL which AFAIK is pretty much the same thing as DSC. I hope it will have a "DTC" mode so I can get wheel spin if necissary without engine breaking. I don't want to go back to one wheel FWD. The new TDI's have considerably (almost) double the HP and TQ of what I had.

I'm not going to rush into this though. I'm not really in a hurry to sell my STI but situations change and it could be to my advantage to replace it with a TDI. One thing is for sure though: I AM NOT SELLING THE M3!!!!!!!!


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## pixelated (Dec 31, 2001)

Good buy! I was planning to do the same thing: buy out of state, above 8K miles and register in Cali. I can't wait to get one. I'm ready to give up on bmw selling their diesels here, so I might end up with a VW.


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

Moderato said:


> I'm not 100% positive but I think that the new TDI will not run on biodiesel.
> .....
> One thing is for sure though: I AM NOT SELLING THE M3!!!!!!!!


:thumbup: M3 for fun and a turbodiesel for economy....good combo! 

As far as the biodiesel goes....is the "no biodiesel" legit or is it VWAG covering their butt from the people putting DIY fuels in it? DaimlerChrysler stipulates no more than 2% biodiesel in the Sprinter turbodiesel.  Many run B99 without issues and I've run greater than 2% (If I remember correctly :eeps: up to about 3%) but you risk warranty issues.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

LMC said:


> As far as the biodiesel goes....is the "no biodiesel" legit or is it VWAG covering their butt from the people putting DIY fuels in it?


I think it's legit considering the huge range in quality of biodiesels out there.

http://corner-carvers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=440432&postcount=374


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

LMC said:


> :thumbup: M3 for fun and a turbodiesel for economy....good combo!
> 
> As far as the biodiesel goes....is the "no biodiesel" legit or is it VWAG covering their butt from the people putting DIY fuels in it? DaimlerChrysler stipulates no more than 2***37; biodiesel in the Sprinter turbodiesel.  Many run B99 without issues and I've run greater than 2***37; (If I remember correctly :eeps: up to about 3%) but you risk warranty issues.


VW allows no more than 5% bio usage to maintain their warranty. Many many many VW owners are successfully using much higher percentages of bio.....even 100%. If the quality of the fuel is good there isn't too much to worry about.

Consider that many folks want to make their own fuel from WVO (waste vergetable oil....like the kind that Burger King throws away)......it's no doubt that the manufacturers put a stipulation on the amount of bio they will sanction. But that said the bio-diesel sold by my local station is certified to ASTM standards.

Check out this quote from the supplier of my bioD:

<<<Can Biodiesel be used in any diesel engine?
Biodiesel can be used in any diesel engine, typically with no modifications to the engine necessary. It performs comparably to diesel, with similar BTU content and higher cetane. It offers excellent lubricity and lower emissions compared to petroleum diesel. The efficiency of diesel engines is the same whether using biodiesel, diesel, or biodiesel blends so differences in horsepower, torque or fuel economy are due entirely to volumetric energy content. The energy content of biodiesel is much less variable than that of petrodiesel, and with biodiesel meeting ASTM D 6751 standards the energy content is more dependent upon the feedstocks used than the particular process.

Manufacturers warrant their products against defects associated with materials and workmanship and the use of biodiesel in and of itself does not void the warranty ***8211; this is prohibited by a federal law known as the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.>>>>
http://www.earthbiofuels.com/faq.php#17


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## 2nynbak (Jan 28, 2007)

MarcusSDCA said:


> Here's my latest TDI Jetta purchase.
> 
> So by giving up my BMW last year I have NOT burned 882 gallons of gas made from imported oil. Instead I used 360 gallons of certified biodiesel fuel made in Texas from American grown soybeans. You see, I just don't want to support the big oil machine anymore...let alone OPEC.
> 
> HEY BMW: I'm waiting.............Don't MAKE me drive VWs forever!!


I agree. I have two Jetta TDIs and I would have bought another if they were still available here in Mass. I wish that BMW would make a 200+hp engine available here as they do in other markets. I don't think most people realize how great a nice diesel engine feels and the 45-50mpg makes our 7series sit idle on most occasions. Right now clean diesel is $.30 cheaper than 87 gas, the first time it's had that advantage in a couple of years. Bring them in BMW and they will get backordered pronto!


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## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

An offering of diesel engines is the one thing that would probably bring me back into the (new) BMW fold. And I'm not talking about the X5 or X3, either, because I will _never_ buy an SUV. My experience with their diesels in Europe is generally positive.

Putting a diesel in the X5 defeats the purpose - why buy an SUV doing ~25 mpg combined when I can have a cheaper and much more enjoyable petrol car that does the same? Remember that diesel adds weight to a car (high compression ratios equal heavy blocks), so an X5 would be even more ponderous and slow with a diesel than it would with a gasoline engine.

A 120d three door (again, that car is stupid in non-hatch form - fastback coupe, cabrio? Bleh. BMWNA, are you listening?) or 320/325/330d - even 335d - would be a desirable DD as far as I'm concerned.

As for VW, they'd need to bring over the Golf TDI before I'd consider them. I never was a fan of the Jetta/Bora, and I'm certainly not partial to the MkV version of that car.


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

VW has the new Common Rail TDI's coming in early 2008, or so I've heard. I very well might sell the STI and get a Golf CR TDI and be done with it. With what I get for the STI I won't even have to shell out any more money to do this either. M3 for fun and certain trips, Common Rail TDI for DD and racking up the miles for work.

Or my other option is to keep the M3 & STI for the next couple of years and wait until BMW brings some diesels over and then sell both the M3 and STI and consolidate down to one car again and just be happy with a BMW diesel that will get great fuel economy and last 200K+ miles. I think I would miss my M3 too much though. For now I'm leaning towards keeping the M3, selling the STI and getting the Golf TDI for my DD.


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