# Credit Card Issues in Europe



## Slpnbyu (Apr 5, 2010)

I was prepared to use a CC on most of my trip; however, in the small towns cash is king... period.

I reserved the CC for gas stations only (you need to pump first then pay inside). This also worked well because there are no ATM fees when a BoA card is used at a Deustche Bank ATM. We kept 200 Euro on us at all times and we were good to go.


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## cronimi (Dec 6, 2003)

FrankAZ said:


> Mine is a 'World Elite' US Airways MC. To the immediate left of the first number group (5466) there is a small symbol of 4 'waves' radiating left to right. It looks similar to this image I found online, but without the hand and oval.


Huh. Mine is a 'World Elite' US Airways MC too, but without the chip and the 'waves'. Oh well, guess I'll rely on the mag stripe and cross my fingers (and have some euros in my pocket). Thanks for the info.


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## zerbitini (Jan 31, 2010)

Interesting. We were in many small towns and NEVER had our magnetic stripe AMEX and MC credit cards refused. We took 500 euros on our 9 day trip, but because we could use credit cards everywhere, we had 300 euros left on the 8th day. We used the remaining euros to pay for our hotel the last night of our trip. Maybe we were just lucky!


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

okc329 said:


> Has any recent visitor to those countries experienced this problem? Are debit cards afffected in the same way? TIA


Here in North Wales, many shops only have chip readers. Swipe cards don't work. I suppose the merchants _could_ call it in but I doubt the 18 year old at the register would know how.

Pay at the pump needs a chipped card too, but most of the stations have a swipe reader on the register inside.

Debit cards are the same.

Our American swipe only debit cards do work in local ATMs.

Several local restaurants are cash or local cheque only. No cards...


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

Stayed near Paris and some of the restaurants didn't accept non-chip credit cards. It was interesting trying to get together a hundred Euros, luckily we had enough!

The metro stations in Paris only take chipped cards, and gas stations don't seem to like the magnetic stripe cards much either. We had problems pretty often...

I need to request a chipped card from my bank (if they offer it).

-Michael


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

I have a wave and pay card from PNC. First time I tired to use it the USA, the machine demanded a PIN just like if I had swiped it. So much for the "improved" system.:rofl:

Cheers


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

I found my master card worked 99% of the time. One occassion, which I found from my bank, it rejected because the cashier put in the wrong security code. The other occassion was at the self-serve gas stations. Those petro stations are owned by supermarket in France, liken those at Costco, Walmart or Safeway. There were no staff, the only way it worked was with a chipped card. That forced me to use staff station which 0.1 more expensive per litre. You can do the math.


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## Adi (Jun 3, 2006)

the J-Man said:


> As a side note to this thread, what's with every single merchant, large or small demanding exact change when paying with cash?
> 
> I.E. Purchase rings up to 12 euro. Give the person a 10 euro and 5 euro note. They hand back the 5 euro note with a disgusted look, and ask if I have a 2 euro coin instead.
> 
> ...


You must have looked very very American and run across exclusively anti-American shop assistants. _Sometimes_, they will ask you if you have a smaller note or coins because it is the end of the day and everyone else walked in with a ***8364;500 note and they're low on change.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

I can't recall anyone ever getting grumpy with me for paying with a large bill, but I also try to get rid of spare change if that's possible. (I sold movie tickets for a year and appreciate the general problem.) This might be because I pull out and count my spare change while I'm waiting in line. Well, it's something to do while you wait, along with rotating all the bar codes to face the scanner.


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## chaz58 (Sep 11, 2007)

Well, if it says visa (or MC) on the door, you are OK. As most of you are visiting tourist places, it is going to be even easier. the problem is if the sign only says EC, then you need the chipped card or cash. 

Bank of America started charging fees about a year ago on my card. As of several years ago, it is illegal to burry these fees in the exchange rate, they have to be called out explicity. Visa/MC typically charge 3% for credit, and 1% for ATM cash cards.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

Sounds like the net net of all this is to be mindful of your fuel gauge and make sure you have cash on hand in relatively small denominations. It would suck to be stranded in a small town after hours with an empty tank of gas where the only way to buy gas is to use a credit card with a smart chip (because there's no attendant on duty). The cash can/will be useful for automated toll machines on highways, again for the same reason. Personally, I tried to use cash wherever possible, including paying for hotels, because my BofA/VISA card charges the 3% foreign exchange transaction fee, whereas my credit union doesn't charge ATM fees and ATM machines offer the best exchange rates. The only hotel I didn't pay for using cash this last go-around was for the night I spent in Davos, only because Switzerland doesn't use the Euro and I didn't want to go through the hassle of getting Swiss francs given how little time I was going to spend in there.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

I have a UK bank account with a chipped debit card. Don't like to use it in the Euro zone though because I fund the account from the US and the double exchange cost is a killer.


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## Wine-O (Feb 17, 2010)

I was in Zurich on a weekend looking for a gas station with an attendant so I could use my M/C without chip/pin. I found one, but the attendant told me that I needed a credit card with a chip/pin. I told her I didn't have one and she said that an American Express card would work in lieu of a credit card w/chip & pin. I had a USAA Amex card, and bingo, it worked. Haven't tried this out at any other unmanned stations in other countries, but I will on my next trip.


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## suchee (May 26, 2009)

Quite a bit of noise this chip-ed card deal seems to have generated!! Just my 2 cents, but some of the US cards, even though they dont have a chip visible on the outside, have a chip embedded on the inside (like the paywave ones mentioned in one the posts below). I think that those cards should work in the Euro zone without problems. I also believe that most card companies are switching over to the embedded chip credit card these days to comply with global/enhanced security requirements.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

suchee said:


> I think that those cards should work in the Euro zone without problems.


What do you base this statement on?:dunno:


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## suchee (May 26, 2009)

JSpira said:


> What do you base this statement on?:dunno:


Well....I remember reading on visa europe's website that the paywave technology was introduced in Europe alongside its US launch a year ago, to bring about global consumer outreach or something like that. I also remember seeing quite a bit of paywave signs in stores in Zurich when I visited earlier this year and using my card by just waving it at the reader on the counter.

I am not sure if it will work everywhere, but I did have success with it. Maybe I should've phrased it differently mentioning it has a moderate to good chance of working.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

suchee said:


> Well....I remember reading on visa europe's website that the paywave technology was introduced in Europe alongside its US launch a year ago, to bring about global consumer outreach or something like that. I also remember seeing quite a bit of paywave signs in stores in Zurich when I visited earlier this year and using my card by just waving it at the reader on the counter.
> 
> I am not sure if it will work everywhere, but I did have success with it. Maybe I should've phrased it differently mentioning it has a moderate to good chance of working.


Yes but the Paywave technology has nothing to do with the chip technology discussed herein and - until and unless Paywave is deployed more broadly - the problem relative to chipped cards won't be easily resolved.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

suchee said:


> Quite a bit of noise this chip-ed card deal seems to have generated!! Just my 2 cents, but some of the US cards, even though they dont have a chip visible on the outside, have a chip embedded on the inside (like the paywave ones mentioned in one the posts below). I think that those cards should work in the Euro zone without problems. I also believe that most card companies are switching over to the embedded chip credit card these days to comply with global/enhanced security requirements.


I think the cards discussed here are chip-n-pin kind, not the paywave you are talking about... You enter a PIN instead of signing your bill.


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## suchee (May 26, 2009)

I was merely suggesting that paywave could be a possible alternative to the chip-less cards that seem to cause so much ruckus. Never was debating the issues with the chip-free cards. And the issue discussed in this thread has everything to do with what I've said, paywave has been discussed below if you'd care to scroll down and read FrankAZ and Andrew*Debbie's comments etc. Not sure why my '2 cents' - which is just information - is being targeted..perhaps some readers might find this useful.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

suchee said:


> I was merely suggesting that paywave could be a possible alternative to the chip-less cards that seem to cause so much ruckus. Never was debating the issues with the chip-free cards. And the issue discussed in this thread has everything to do with what I've said, paywave has been discussed below if you'd care to scroll down and read FrankAZ and Andrew*Debbie's comments etc. Not sure why my '2 cents' - which is just information - is being targeted..perhaps some readers might find this useful.


I don't think the EU lands will contemplate changing the relatively new system so it's not really an alternative.


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## suchee (May 26, 2009)

JSpira said:


> I don't think the EU lands will contemplate changing the relatively new system so it's not really an alternative.


Hmmm...I dont want to bicker about this any further. I was just trying to pass on some information to assist other festers. I happen to think this is an option in some EU countries! You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I guess you must be in with the EU administration to know that they will not be going the paywave way.

You might want to read this article as well -> http://www.nfctimes.com/news/visa-europe-chief-predicts-doubling-paywave-cards-2010.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

JSpira said:


> I don't think the EU lands will contemplate changing the relatively new system so it's not really an alternative.


To be fair, I've read that Visa is experimentally implementing Paywave in UK, CH and a couple of other European countries this year with plans to expand based on results.

However, I think the confusion (at least for me) was with the statement made that Paywave IS an alternative to chip-n-PIN now, which is not the case as far as I know. I personally faced an issue with chip-n-PIN on my recent trip to Belgium. I had to visit a few gas stations until found one with an attendant. I had cash, but most stations I've visited around Bruges were unattended, equipped with chip-n-pin terminals as the only way of payment. I can't imagine paywave being used in place of these terminals, unless PIN is required anyway.

Anyway, I think the two technologies are designed to solve slightly different issues (although there is potential for paywave to be "the thing" for EU and US in the future). Chip-n-PIN addresses - credit card fraud, and paywave is more of the convenience thing to me...if used w/out PIN.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

suchee said:


> Hmmm...I dont want to bicker about this any further. I was just trying to pass on some information to assist other festers. I happen to think this is an option in some EU countries! You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I guess you must be in with the EU administration to know that they will not be going the paywave way.
> 
> You might want to read this article as well -> http://www.nfctimes.com/news/visa-europe-chief-predicts-doubling-paywave-cards-2010.


The contactless card holders are mostly in the UK, Turkey, and Poland. Merchants have been very slow to adopt readers for the cards.

Even if the number of cards doubles, it will still be very small - and the number of merchants accepting the cards would need to increase dramatically (not just double).

Ultimately, it is really not an option for people here in this forum - at this time or at any point in the near future.

(And to answer your question about my being in touch with the "EU administration" - whatever that body is - I am not but I have had conversations with Visa executives about this and my comments come largely from both what they said and what I know to be the current state of the art.)


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## suchee (May 26, 2009)

JSpira said:


> Ultimately, it is really not an option for people here in this forum - at this time or at any point in the near future.


I beg to differ. Maybe we should let the people in this forum decide what information they deem useful to them, isnt that the purpose of a 'forum'??



> (And to answer your question about my being in touch with the "EU administration" - whatever that body is - I am not but I have had conversations with Visa executives about this and my comments come largely from both what they said and what I know to be the current state of the art.)


Hmm...well, I am a lay-person, and only depend on news that I read. I dont travel in circles such as yours and am not privy to such information.


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

I don't remember seeing any of this "Paywave" thing during my recent ED trip - just the smartcard chip readers...



suchee said:


> Well....I remember reading on visa europe's website that the paywave technology was introduced in Europe alongside its US launch a year ago, to bring about global consumer outreach or something like that. I also remember seeing quite a bit of paywave signs in stores in Zurich when I visited earlier this year and using my card by just waving it at the reader on the counter.
> 
> I am not sure if it will work everywhere, but I did have success with it. Maybe I should've phrased it differently mentioning it has a moderate to good chance of working.


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## sjhwilkes (Jul 27, 2003)

My only bad experience was getting stuck at an unattended single lane toll exit on the Autoroute in Provence, where I guess the machine was full of cash so was taking cards only - I was then stuck at the front of a line of traffic, some of which had trailers so didn't want to back up. Eventually someone came on the speaker and let me through without paying (probably due to my clear foreignness). Not a comfortable ten minutes.


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## MikeTerp (Feb 3, 2007)

okc329 said:


> Yesterday I was listening to a radio travel program and the host noted that more and more establishments in Europe are not accepting credit cards unless they are of the newer type with embedded chips instead of magnetic stripes. Has any recent visitor to those countries experienced this problem? Are debit cards afffected in the same way? TIA


Just got back from the UK two weeks ago and had no problems - except - that in buying gas at stations, I could not use my card at the pump, but had to go inside to have the clerk swipe it. Same in supermarkets - clerk had to swipe it in his/her machine as opposed to the reader that most customers used. Unless you are using your card all day long, this is a relatively minor inconvenience. One suggestion: notify your bank before you go, so that they will know you are in Europe and not stop payments on anything you charge.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

American Express has a Blue for Business Charge Card which is the contactless Euro type card described above. I ordered that today. Chase has a card with a Blink feature which is same thing in the MasterCard World.


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## jjgoodtimes (Feb 3, 2008)

MikeTerp said:


> Just got back from the UK two weeks ago and had no problems - except - that in buying gas at stations, I could not use my card at the pump, but had to go inside to have the clerk swipe it. Same in supermarkets - clerk had to swipe it in his/her machine as opposed to the reader that most customers used. Unless you are using your card all day long, this is a relatively minor inconvenience. One suggestion: notify your bank before you go, so that they will know you are in Europe and not stop payments on anything you charge.


The gas station thing is actually pretty inconvenient if you are off the major auto-routes and it is a Sunday or an evening. If you plan ahead and only get gas during the day on Mon-Sat it isn't a big deal.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

JSpira said:


> The contactless card holders are mostly in the UK, Turkey, and Poland. Merchants have been very slow to adopt readers for the cards.
> 
> Even if the number of cards doubles, it will still be very small - and the number of merchants accepting the cards would need to increase dramatically (not just double).
> 
> ...


I have yet to see a contactless card reader in the UK and my UK bank has not offered me a contactless card.


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## suchee (May 26, 2009)

Just wanted to revisit this - after my ED trip. 

1. ATM's seems like the best way to go (best exchange rates and my bank didnt charge me any fees)
2. ADAC - which towed my car after my mishap in Itay, would only accept cash.
3. Didnt have too much succes with US cards (chip or not) in Italy - They seem to prefer cash. To be fair, I did go to smaller, quainter towns.
4. If you want to exchange currency, post offices with banks, offer the best rates.
5. Quite a few gas stations (even on major highways)..require you to go into the store to pay if you have a US card.


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## 510kut (Jul 28, 2004)

Just a quick.. note while in France and paying tolls even the ones with a Mastercard logo sometimes would not accept my Capital One card, but would accept my American Express Biz Card. So if all else fails try your American Express.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

adgrant said:


> I have yet to see a contactless card reader in the UK and my UK bank has not offered me a contactless card.


+1 and we reside in the UK.

Many of the smaller shops here in Wales don't have swipe readers.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

Oh, I was reconciling my Amex statement online. A little tip posted on the side says they don't need to know if you are going overseas. So save you a call to Amex.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

zoltrix said:


> The problem with merchant agreements is that most, if not all merchants, don't give a rat's ass about them.
> 
> Even in the US, the merchant agreement *explicitly* states that an identification may be *requested* at the time of sale but cannot be a *condition* of sale. Meaning that if you try to use your Visa and they ask for an ID and you tell them to stuff it, they MUST sell you the item anyway.
> 
> ...


Then report them. MC & Visa both have a website to report merchants who try to do this. I've had it happen to me, reported them and they accepted it w/o my ID. I'm not about to show my ID if I don't have to. All they have to do is memorize your DOB and your ID is stolen.


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

335i Driver said:


> Then report them. MC & Visa both have a website to report merchants who try to do this. I've had it happen to me, reported them and they accepted it w/o my ID. I'm not about to show my ID if I don't have to. All they have to do is memorize your DOB and your ID is stolen.


You can try but sometimes they are the big customer for Visa or Master, so even Visa / Master might cave.

My mother was in Louis Vuitton last week, they asked for ID as well. My mom forgot to bring hers and they said "we will hold it for you." So it is ok, and she used a photo Amex card.


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## chaslee (Dec 13, 2002)

We were in France and the UK recently. I was surprised to see that for ATM withdrawal, they charged a 1% fee. Must have implemented this in the last couple of years. They didn't do this on our last trip in 2007. If I had known, I would have used my Capital One card more, no fees whatsoever there. Great card.


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## ND40oz (Oct 6, 2009)

Only places I've had issues with swipe readers is some fast food places, a few of them seem to like chip-n-pin only, even if they have swipe capability.

Travelex offers refillable Chip-n-Pin cards, saw an add on the Tube for one, google cashpassport.


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## p88189 (Jun 28, 2010)

Just finished a week in Italy, France, Swiss, Austria and Germany. Credit card worked everywhere including toll booths, vignettes stations, hotels, cafes and markets. Used Capital One that has no international transaction fee.


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