# 335d is a disturbing revelation



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

For less than half the price of my Porsche, I swear I am getting more pleasure out of this car lately than I am from the Porsche. 

Performance:

My 987R (Cayman R...considered one of the best sports cars ever built) will hit 60 in just over 4 seconds. In theory. But I am convinced that from a stoplight I am nearly as quick in the 335d. My Porsche is a 6-speed.


Plus, despite the awesomeness of the M-sport packaging, the 335d draws zero attention where I live so I can actually drive more quickly without getting negative attention.

Handling? You have to get out on a track to realize the potential of the Porsche. I only do that about every 2 months. People who don't track their Porsches might as well buy a BMW. :dunno:

Luxury:

I scored and found a fully loaded 335d. Interior. Sound system. Everything is just "better" than my Porsche for driving around town. The iDrive system is actually pretty darn cool.

Efficiency:

OMG 40 mpg and 600 miles to a tank

Value:

CPO BMW = Bang for your buck Big Time

New Porsche = Not So Much

This is all quite a shock considering i was just looking for a replacement for my Honda Civic Hybrid commuter. 

I know that this sub-forum has a lot of great info around the problems we can face with the d, but OMG they are awesome machines.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Have you tried the d on a track? I have as a beginner and feel it is also underrated for its "trackability." Wouldn't mind having both cars as you do!


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

Pierre Louis said:


> Have you tried the d on a track? I have as a beginner and feel it is also underrated for its "trackability." Wouldn't mind having both cars as you do!


I haven't tracked my d, but I have driven the last two versions of the M5 on the track and regularly make M3 owners very, very unhappy. 

Here is a video of me following my brother in his F10 M5 around Laguna Seca. *I am driving my Porsche. The camera is in my car. Don't get confused by the Tesla reference.* 560 HP versus my 330. I am trying to stay close enough once we get around traffic to establish his time for the purpose of establishing that the M5 is faster at Laguna than a Tesla Model S Performance model. (Long story) Notice how I catch him in the corners. It is hard to get a sense for how much I am struggling to stay close and not rear end him slowing from 130 mph down to 40 or so at times. I am at least 3 seconds faster a lap. That is huge.

I have a sense for how the 335d would do on the track based upon this experience.






This is an object lesson for those who haven't been on a track. My brother's M5 is frighteningly quick, but it is heavy. I catch him in the corners and can carry more speed through the corners. On any *road* he would leave me in the dust. On a track, he has no chance. We are both advanced drivers. He is generally more aggressive and less "fear limited" than I am. LOL.


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## ChasR (Aug 29, 2012)

I made three changes to my 335d to get it ready for the track. A Quaife TBD, M3 front control arms and bushings, and an Evolve tune. THe Quaife helps control all the extra power from the Evolve tune and the M3 control arms add a degree of negative camber to stick the front better. Oh and I forgot about the Michelin Pilot SSs. It makes for a hell of a sleeper on the street. It easily outruns my modded E28 M5 and handles at least as well. I've yet to track it though, maybe next spring.


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

ChasR said:


> I made three changes to my 335d to get it ready for the track. A Quaife TBD, M3 front control arms and bushings, and an Evolve tune. THe Quaife helps control all the extra power from the Evolve tune and the M3 control arms add a degree of negative camber to stick the front better. Oh and I forgot about the Michelin Pilot SSs. It makes for a hell of a sleeper on the street. It easily outruns my modded E28 M5 and handles at least as well. I've yet to track it though, maybe next spring.


That negative camber will help save your tires from shredding their shoulders. 

I have definitely noticed that the traction control is far more intrusive in the 335d than PSM is in my Porsche, so that might be an issue. Also, with the turbo lag you might want to run in manual mode to keep your RPMs up when exiting corners...and/or hold a gear through turns.

I would LOVE to see a well driven 335d harass more "sporty" cars out there. :thumbup: The big challenge is weight, and I don't know how the brakes hold up during a typical 20 or 30 minute session.

Can't wait to hear about your experience. The bottom line is that you will be under-estimated. That is a recipe for a whole lot of fun.

The best mod for going faster on the track is track time and training, of course.  It is impossible to imagine getting passed by a Miata while driving a Corvette...until it has happened to you. And there is no better feeling than when you can return the favor one day.

BTW, I notice the Mini in your sig. My brother and I were getting passed like we were standing still by a couple of CooperWorks cars on the Nordschleife while driving his F10 M5. We are both experienced drivers, and I have a ton of PlayStation laps under my belt...LOL...but there is no substitute for track time. here is a picture from that heavenly day:


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## GeoX750Li (Apr 6, 2013)

DaveN007 said:


> I haven't tracked my d, but I have driven the last two versions of the M5 on the track and regularly make M3 owners very, very unhappy.
> 
> Here is a video of me following my brother in his F10 M5 around Laguna Seca. *I am driving my Porsche. The camera is in my car. Don't get confused by the Tesla reference.* 560 HP versus my 330. I am trying to stay close enough once we get around traffic to establish his time for the purpose of establishing that the M5 is faster at Laguna than a Tesla Model S Performance model. (Long story) Notice how I catch him in the corners. It is hard to get a sense for how much I am struggling to stay close and not rear end him slowing from 130 mph down to 40 or so at times. I am at least 3 seconds faster a lap. That is huge.
> 
> ...


Awesome video, looks like you guys are really having fun.

I thought it was a good question whether you had tracked the D, but then I remembered the guy has a Cayman, why would he be tracking the D instead! I guess just to try it.


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

I can't add anything other than anecdotes to the track discussion, but here is what I can say:
1. I drove fast in Germany for five years in a 2002 and a R75/5. But no track experience. Just country roads.
2. Have been the track just once in the D (Sep 2012) at Summit Point in WV. My D at that time had no mods except for Bilstein B6 all around. Non-sports suspension. OEM RFT 17". 
3. The HPDE (track) instructor took me and another student for our orientation lap in my car. His comment was: "very nice; can I have it?".
4. My observation was that it handled and braked very well for a stock car. Please note we were on a very short Jefferson Circuit, a technical 1.1 mile track as I recall. Not sure of the distance. My only fret was the tires got quite slippery and beat up on the outside rib of the front left tire. By the fourth session when the track was moist, it was mighty exciting for me (NOT!).
5. In my group were a few M cars. They were plenty fast, but with that short track and our torque, they had no chance to pass me on the short straights. I had to wave them by.
6. Now I am going again this Saturday to the longer Shenandoah Circuit of Summit. And now I have all the mods shown below in my signature block. I run my JBD usually at 100%, but am thinking about dialing it back to 60% to give me better throttle control.
7. I'll let you know what my observations are after it is all over.

Thanks for the neat video. I visited Laguna Seca earlier this year and thought it would be a fun track to drive.

P.S. I plan to tighten the JRZ RS1 dampers down by 4 clicks all the way around; normally I run them about in the middle of a 1-24 click range. I run an 18" square setup, with 235/40 tires all the way around.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Bill Auberlen raced a 335d in the 24hr at Thunderhill. The small turbo gave out IIRC. This was back in 2007. If your a BMW CCA member you can look up the story in Roundel.


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

DaveN007 said:


> For less than half the price of my Porsche, I swear I am getting more pleasure out of this car lately than I am from the Porsche.


This is so funny. For various reasons, I ended up with VW Golf TDI as a daily driver which I call my 118d BMWNA SE (see signature) just to mess with ijits in New Jersey. The car was supposed to be 320d, but BMWNA didn't want my money.

Anyway ... long story short, I bought the second car because both I and my wife were sick of daily driving the car in signature picture where we live. It is officially "toy" now, but it was never a proper car anyway.

LOL at the comment that you can fly in a BMW but people would frown upon your Cayman doing the same speed where you live. Here, in Ohio, you do not want to actually even *drive** in a BMW but they'll let a diesel VW slide - even if going hotter than in that BMW.

*_____

This means actual active act of driving as you would do in Germany or Northern Italy without necessarily speeding, as opposed to brain-dead rolling from A to B 85% of the people on the road use and call "driving". People in Ohio find that a person in a BMW doing actual/proper/real driving is a threat to their safety.


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Mark K said:


> Here, in [insert almost any US state], you do not want to actually even *drive** in a BMW but they'll let a diesel VW slide - even if going hotter than in that BMW.
> 
> * This means actual active act of driving as you would do in Germany or Northern Italy without necessarily speeding, as opposed to brain-dead rolling from A to B 85% of the people on the road use and call "driving". People in Ohio find that a person in a BMW doing actual/proper/real driving is a threat to their safety.


Haha, if that isn't the truth. Having lived in Germany for five years, and just having refreshed my memory with a European trip in September. That is so true.

One of the interesting things is when you are poking along at the speed limit plus 5 or so, and all the folks are racing past you to get to a turnoff before you, and then they are going around the turn about 20 mph less than you want to, thus impeding your way unless it happens to be a two-laner. Then after you have blown by them on the turn, then you settle back into a reasonable public roads' speed and they blow by you again. Mind you I am not talking about a drift turn, just an easy no sweat higher speed turn. I guess those SUVs though must be a bit scary with the higher CG.


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

Happy335dOwner said:


> Mind you I am not talking about a drift turn, just an easy no sweat higher speed turn. I guess those SUVs though must be a bit scary with the higher CG.


Let me object to this first ... here, in this area of the Midwest, you do not pass on a two lane road, nobody does. Except myself and VERY few others that I have seen. And they WILL make you understand that it is a no-no when you pass them. It's true, don't ask why because I don't know. Well, I do but we are already highjacking this thread so I'll stop there. That said ...

Actually, what puts me in the murderous mood is the opposite - when I'm behind them. I'd need to go 20+ mph over the limit on the straight to pass them (no way I'd risk that ticket), but then they slow to a crawl to take the corner. Can't pass, traffic on the exit from the opposite direction ... wait, rinse and repeat.


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Mark K said:


> Let me object to this first ... here, in this area of the Midwest, you do not pass on a two lane road, nobody does. Except myself and VERY few others that I have seen. And they WILL make you understand that it is a no-no when you pass them. It's true, don't ask why because I don't know. Well, I do but we are already highjacking this thread so I'll stop there. That said ...


Poor writing on my part. When I said a two-laner on a curve, I meant both lanes going the same direction. Quite a few of those here in MD.


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

GeoX750Li said:


> Awesome video, looks like you guys are really having fun.
> 
> I thought it was a good question whether you had tracked the D, but then I remembered the guy has a Cayman, why would he be tracking the D instead! I guess just to try it.


All of my track friends think I should try the d on the track. My dealer been said they have no problem replacing brake pads for free...


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Omg it's the same way here. Nobody can corner. They go so slow in the corners then floor it on the straightaways. I get pissed off if someone gets in front of me before a corner even if they are way ahead, in a few seconds I'll be right on top of them.



Happy335dOwner said:


> Haha, if that isn't the truth. Having lived in Germany for five years, and just having refreshed my memory with a European trip in September. That is so true.
> 
> One of the interesting things is when you are poking along at the speed limit plus 5 or so, and all the folks are racing past you to get to a turnoff before you, and then they are going around the turn about 20 mph less than you want to, thus impeding your way unless it happens to be a two-laner. Then after you have blown by them on the turn, then you settle back into a reasonable public roads' speed and they blow by you again. Mind you I am not talking about a drift turn, just an easy no sweat higher speed turn. I guess those SUVs though must be a bit scary with the higher CG.


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## sirbikes (Aug 17, 2012)

Nice driving. I notice your brother has to initiate his turns a bit more to the outside than you.



DaveN007 said:


> I haven't tracked my d, but I have driven the last two versions of the M5 on the track and regularly make M3 owners very, very unhappy.
> 
> Here is a video of me following my brother in his F10 M5 around Laguna Seca. *I am driving my Porsche. The camera is in my car. Don't get confused by the Tesla reference.* 560 HP versus my 330. I am trying to stay close enough once we get around traffic to establish his time for the purpose of establishing that the M5 is faster at Laguna than a Tesla Model S Performance model. (Long story) Notice how I catch him in the corners. It is hard to get a sense for how much I am struggling to stay close and not rear end him slowing from 130 mph down to 40 or so at times. I am at least 3 seconds faster a lap. That is huge.
> 
> ...


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

sirbikes said:


> Nice driving. I notice your brother has to initiate his turns a bit more to the outside than you.


He is actually taking a line that would be quicker for me in some turns also, but I wanted to keep him in my camera sights. 

Turn 2 (the hairpin at the end of the main straight) can be single or double apexed, also.

By contrast, here is a pic from 2006 of my brother hounding a Lotus in his V10 M5. The driver is a great equalizer.


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

Mark K said:


> Let me object to this first ... here, in this area of the Midwest, you do not pass on a two lane road, nobody does. Except myself and VERY few others that I have seen. And they WILL make you understand that it is a no-no when you pass them. It's true, don't ask why because I don't know. Well, I do but we are already highjacking this thread so I'll stop there. That said ...


Wait. A two-lane road with a broken yellow center divider? Totally legal to pass?

There are very clear rules for when and how to perform this legal maneuver.

What is the problem?

:dunno:


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Happy335dOwner said:


> I am going again this Saturday to the longer Shenandoah Circuit of Summit. I'll let you know what my observations are after it is all over. I plan to tighten the JRZ RS1 dampers down by 4 clicks all the way around; normally I run them about in the middle of a 1-24 click range. I run an 18" square setup, with 235/40 tires all the way around.


OK. Just got back from the Shenandoah Circuit of Summit Point Raceway near Charles Town, WV. Great day--dry and about 60 degrees. That circuit is so much better (and demanding) than the Jefferson Circuit. I had a great instructor. The car as set up by VAC Motorsports earlier this year performed really great. As usual the driver was the limiting factor, but the old D, the only diesel out there, did credit to his model number. I had left the JBD at 100% with no apparent problem. Brakes worked great, but did get a little stinky toward the end. There are 23-25 minute sessions; 4 sessions in a day. Bunch of hot M3s in the group. But I am an equal opportunity wimp, so there were times when better drivers in a '91 Nissan Sentra and a newer of course BRZ were waved past by yours truly. But by the fourth session that was not necessary as my skills had improved a bit. I did let a couple of M3s by. As mentioned before, the car has sufficient go-power that if I did not wave them past they struggled to pass me on the straights unless they got a real good start out of the straight entry point. That is a real testament to a car that gets 40mpg on the highway. Of course they were right up my tail pipe at the end of the straight.

The skid pad was a waste. Got no time to practice anything. My only complaint.

The greatest fun was catching a ride during the instructor session with my instructor in his 2009 M3. Wow!

You can tell I am an old newbie by all my gushing.  We should be real proud of our 335d vehicles. Now if they would keep running that would be even better, eh?


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

DaveN007 said:


> Wait. A two-lane road with a broken yellow center divider? Totally legal to pass?
> 
> There are very clear rules for when and how to perform this legal maneuver.
> 
> ...


As mentioned above, I think Mark K misinterpreted my poorly written prose. I was not talking about passing on a two-lane road where one lane is going and the other is coming. My example was referring to a two-lane road where both lanes are going. Like a nice sweeper off-ramp from US 50 east just past the Severn River bridge in Annapolis, the left hand sweeper heading north onto MD Route 2. That is a great (although rather blind) corner and very frustrating when it is clogged by people that blow by you on the straight and then struggle to keep it upright on the curves.


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

Happy335dOwner said:


> As mentioned above, I think Mark K misinterpreted my poorly written prose. I was not talking about passing on a two-lane road where one lane is going and the other is coming. My example was referring to a two-lane road where both lanes are going. Like a nice sweeper off-ramp from US 50 east just past the Severn River bridge in Annapolis, the left hand sweeper heading north onto MD Route 2. That is a great (although rather blind) corner and very frustrating when it is clogged by people that blow by you on the straight and then struggle to keep it upright on the curves.


I live 10 minutes off of Highway 50. 

In the foothills of the Sierra Nevada! :thumbup:


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