# Sun Sets on European Delivery



## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

Snareman said:


> It's sad that this forum has once again become active, essentially over the demise of this forum.


Hopefully someone from BMW N/A lurks on this board.
Maybe they will realize that while our numbers are small, people who do multiple EDs are great word of mouth sales-persons.
Which do they want us bragging on, a car from Munich or one from Stuttgart?

For the last 30 years the wife and I have driven nothing but German; 2 VWs, 4 Audi's, 4 BMWs, 1 Porsche, and a Mercedes. I don't see that changing, that being said European delivery does weigh in on which car to buy.


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

sno_duc said:


> Snareman said:
> 
> 
> > It's sad that this forum has once again become active, essentially over the demise of this forum.
> ...


Although, if they didn't listen to the world over about the hideous new grilles (so far) I can't imagine they care about a small band of us on here.

Between this and the grilles, although I haven't seen the car yet, I am a good ways pushed over towards a c63 AMG. It may be time for a BMW break.


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

dkreidel said:


> If you wait, BMW ED at the Welt will return.


I agree with you 110%. Tourism accounts for 10% of EU GDP.

BMW NA has an other black eye when hundreds of status 111/112 orders were cancelled last week.

Where is the customer service recovery? As there is only so much loyal customers can tolerate, as my 2020 M4 vert ZCP was cancelled-- good think I didn't plan for a last ED trip.


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## Asteroid (Aug 17, 2005)

Porsche ED volume has got to be much lower than the reported ~500 who did BMW ED most recently. From my understanding, a Porsche car sold via ED gets the dealer another allocation. Could that model work for BMW?


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

I wrote to BMW. Here was their response to me.

Thank you for writing to BMW of North America, LLC regarding the European Delivery Program. I am sorry to learn about your disappointment.

If you're currently looking for a new vehicle, it's not too late to schedule European vehicle delivery before the program concludes. We are still accepting new pre-reservation forms through May 17, 2020. The last month you can choose for European vehicle delivery will be September 2020. Please contact your local BMW center for more details.

Our Customer Relations and Services team is here for you. You can reach us at 1-800-831-1117 Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. ET and Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET.

Stay safe and healthy.

Kind regards,

Matthew Mcclellan
Customer Relations and Services
Representative


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

As usual, I am very, very late to the best parties and best threads on forums I usually participate. So, I will use some of the posts for a few things I want to say.

But first and foremost ... what a waste. I did only one BMW ED and had to cancel Porsche ED because of some extreme circumstances. Still, that one experience is something I cannot describe - and keep in mind I was born in Europe and lived there for 34 years before coming to US. So, I am mad. Keep that in mind when you read the rest.



aardvark said:


> Damn. Unsurprising considering all the factors many of us have discussed for the last few years. The diminution of the discount was the beginning of the end.


I am pretty shocked that, of all old-timers commenting on this thread, absolutely NOBODY called a king naked. People, if my memory is even minimally functioning, it is NOT BMW AG-created problem, it is not even BMWNA-created problem (at least not directly). From what I remember, ED got brutally attacked by very large entities that hold a lot of sway with BMWNA because they couldn't stand smart mom-and-pop shops establishing "Internet Sales" position and "stealing" sales from them.

Next time you go to buy something from a DOW- or NASDAQ- listed company because "you save money" ... think of this. Once Kroger kicks out every single grocery store out of town, you will only be buying what Kroger thinks you want to buy. And think that I actually like Kroger and it employs some people that I know being HQ'd in Cincinnati. There is no such thing as free music or free lunch in this Universe - you will ALWAYS pay the piper or the inn owner.

I'll stop now, before it becomes unreadable.



akthorp said:


> I've done 4 over the last 18 years with the last being an M4 last September. I told myself then it might be the last time I did it but I didn't really want to believe. I thought it would be up to me but I guess not. Sad day indeed.
> 
> But who is to blame? BMW NA or BMW AG?


AFAIK, neither- at least not directly. Try Penske AUtomotive Group - and they are NOT the only ones. Search the thread about diminishing ED incentives for somewhat full list.

While at it, tell your friends and family buying Chevrolets, Fords, Toyotas, Hondas ... and so on to buy them elsewhere and send email to the HQ of the automotive group explaining why they went to mom-and-pop dealership. See ED reinstated in 2019. Done.



Zeichen311 said:


> Why deny all of us the opportunity simply because "participation" by bargain-chasers plummeted? I'd pay $1,000-$1,500 extra to do it again, in a hot minute.


In fact. Porsche is still doing it, even without discount - it used to be that you paid for the privilege, at least so I heard. But I have to assume different dynamic there - either mega conglomerates own very few Porsche dealerships to bother or maybe all of them are coming out of allocation so it doesn't matter.



sno_duc said:


> Are you familiar with the 911 R?
> That's my dream Porsche. (911 GT3 RS engine and suspension in a plain jane 911 body. In other words SLEEPER)


OK, OT ... sno_duc, please tell me you heard of 991 GT3 Touring Package. 95% of 911R of the same gen (plus full cabin insulation and plus double mass flywheel clutch being different) for basically infinite discount - considering you couldn't get 911R unless very, very well connected.

...

Volvo used to be, in 2012-2013 at least, the only one that would let you spec your car European way if you picked it in Sweden. Yes, I still remember going through config for a C30 for my now ex wife and all European combos of interior were available, all colors not available here were available for order, not sure on cherry-picking options, it has been some time. I can strongly suggest to go there and check their ED program - not only hotels, transportation, insurance, meals ... but also what freedoms you get with configuration of your car. It might be well worth it. V90 (without lift and plastic crap cladding) is the stuff you could steal from MOMA out of an exhibition. Art.

What to say? Ultimately, Porsche wins them all. You can even order seat belts in color you want - let alone other perversions like leather-covered air vents if you want them. Quite a few of these are actually stand-alone options which cannot hurt, considering how the price goes up when you start clicking . I strongly believe that it is impossible for two Porsche models of same generation ordered to customer's spec to be identical - just not possible considering number of individual options available even on the CHEAPEST model they make. And we are talking less than well-or-full-optioned 440i money. Yeah, you will pay for them - and that could be why you can still pick yours in Zuffenhausen 

OK, finishing now ...

I grew out of one-car-that-does-it-all mindset. If I was still in there, there would be nothing other than BMW for me to buy. Yes, still, even with all the stuff I wrote since F30 came out ... I drove F36 420d at the end of its F36 code run and a fresh G20 330d in EU and both were absolutely fantastic to drive in there. In US? Not so sure ... and that might have been one of the main reasons to put big boy pants and spend a lot more for 2 cars that can then do almost everything instead of trying to fudge it with one car that does it all.

I am still here, will read other forums sporadically and, yes, still miss the best and most important party in town for at least 3 weeks 

Stay well everybody, it was a pleasure to see some old revered names popping out of the woodwork.


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## roup1 (Dec 24, 2001)

dkreidel said:


> I'll hunt up some old pics from my first 4 ED's at Frankfurter Ring (prior to Freimann) and post them in this thread.


My first ED in 1999 was at the BMW Niederlassungen on Frankfurter Ring. Much simpler times. I think they threw in a cup of coffee!


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

roup1 said:


> My first ED in 1999 was at the BMW Niederlassungen on Frankfurter Ring. Much simpler times. I think they threw in a cup of coffee!


^^^ That's the place! You're right, a nice Kafee and Leberkässemmel so you wouldn't drive away hungry.


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

I did my first delivery there as well. One of the feeling I loved about my recent EDs was just walking around the Welt, both on delivery day knowing that I was there to pick up a car (it gave it an extra magical feeling) and then a few of the times towards the end of my trip when I was back in Munich and I'd park my car in the Welt garage and then just go on a casual stroll around the Welt just soaking in everything BMW and try and talk myself into a few more things from the giftshop. Last time I was there I'd apparently bought enough M merchandise that the woman at the register said, "Let me guess, you're here to pick up an M?"

Here's a few pics from my first ED back in 20007










Rolf with the bags!!









It seemed so official at the time. Who knew how much it would pale in comparison to the Welt









Besides the garage, this was pretty much the whole place right?


















Cars were just parked in a garage


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

Snare; your photos are the second iteration of Freimann. Niederlassung was, and is a big, corporate owned retail dealership on the Frankfürter Ring in downtown Munich. My 95, 97, 99, and beloved 01 M5 were all done there. My 80's ED's were done at Freimann 1.0; I was at Freimann 2.0 (your pics) at least twice, June 2003 and last time in April 2007. Sometime later that year US ED's moved to the new Welt. Freimann 2.0 was quite a letdown after Niederlassung, but we knew the Welt was under construction and someday we'd be out of the industrial park Freimann resided in.

_Edit - akthorp kindly helped correct my failing memory. I'd originally thought we picked up the '03 M5 at Niederlassung, but this thread caused me to go through old pics and discovered ones of us at Freimann 2.0 with that bad boy. I honestly can't remember where we picked up the 2004 e46 vert, but I do recall getting rear ended at valet parking in our Luzern hotel - one day old :bawling:_


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## akthorp (Jun 16, 2012)

dkreidel said:


> Snare; your photos are the second iteration of Freimann. Niederlassung was, and is a big, corporate owned retail dealership on the Frankfürter Ring in downtown Munich. My 95, 97, 99, 01, 03, and 04 ED's were all done there. My 80's ED's were done at Freimann 1.0; I was only at Freimann 2.0 (your pics) once; April 2007. Sometime later that year US ED's moved to the new Welt. Freimann 2.0 was quite a letdown after Niederlassung, but we knew the Welt was under construction and someday we'd be out of the industrial park Freimann resided in.
> 
> When I picked up in 2002 it was at the building Snareman shows (Freimann 2.0). Why would I have gone there if you went to the other place in 01 and 03? Did they use both sites during those years?


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

akthorp said:


> dkreidel said:
> 
> 
> > Snare; your photos are the second iteration of Freimann. Niederlassung was, and is a big, corporate owned retail dealership on the Frankfürter Ring in downtown Munich. My 95, 97, 99, 01, 03, and 04 ED's were all done there. My 80's ED's were done at Freimann 1.0; I was only at Freimann 2.0 (your pics) once; April 2007. Sometime later that year US ED's moved to the new Welt. Freimann 2.0 was quite a letdown after Niederlassung, but we knew the Welt was under construction and someday we'd be out of the industrial park Freimann resided in.
> ...


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

dkreidel said:


> Snare; your photos are the second iteration of Freimann. Niederlassung was, and is a big, corporate owned retail dealership on the Frankfürter Ring in downtown Munich. My 95, 97, 99, and beloved 01 M5 were all done there. My 80's ED's were done at Freimann 1.0; I was at Freimann 2.0 (your pics) at least twice, June 2003 and last time in April 2007. Sometime later that year US ED's moved to the new Welt. Freimann 2.0 was quite a letdown after Niederlassung, but we knew the Welt was under construction and someday we'd be out of the industrial park Freimann resided in.
> 
> Edit - akthprp kindly helped correct my failing memory - I'd originally thought we picked up the 03 M5 at Niederlassung, but this thread caused me to go through old pics and discovered ones of of us a Freimann 2.0 with that bad boy. I honestly can't remember where we picked up the 2004 e46 vert, but I do recall getting rear ended at valet parking in our Luzern hotel - one day old :bawling:


I went to this dealer a bunch of times. Partly just to admire a huge Munich BMW dealer and partly to try and score one of their license plate frames to use for my ED plate when I got home. I would never use a dealer plate from my US dealers, but the one from Germany is clearly more cool. 

Also, I was told that I could safely park my car outside the hotel. I came out the next morning to find that someone had backed into it. Thankfully they just bent the plate, but still frustrating on my 1 day old car! I had similar scariness taking my 2 day old car on 2 'ring laps.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

lilskel said:


> As others mentioned, it was very nice to see JSpira and Beewang posting here, two of the names that I hadn't forgotten but didn't know they too have seemingly (from my reading) deserted this forum and the BMW brand.


First, thank you for thinking of me - I appreciate it.

I wouldn't say I deserted the ED forum but I did step back. Sadly, the deaths of my father, brother, and mother in that order left me dealing with both grief and administrative issues for a period of time.

But my heart has always been here. I was honored to be the first customer (not just ED) to take delivery of a vehicle at the Welt. I was honored to have become friends with Rolf.

This is the first discussion forum I was ever involved in, I learnt quite a bit, met a lot of great people both online and in person, helped propel me into starting a travel magazine, and is simply just the greatest grouping of people I could imagine.

:roundel: :roundel: :roundel: :roundel: :roundel:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

dkreidel said:


> Snare; your photos are the second iteration of Freimann. Niederlassung was, and is a big, corporate owned retail dealership on the Frankfürter Ring in downtown Munich.


FYI, so no one gets the wrong impression here, "Niederlassung" is not the name of where you/we took delivery.

Niederlassung means "branch" or "branch office."

It is part of the name but it's like saying "I picked up my car at 'branch'"

Even the branch has branches, the BMW Niederlassung München Filiale Nord and the BMW Niederlassung München Filiale Ingolstädter Straße for example. Filiale means branch as well but both have a clear meaning in German so there is not really any overlap :angel:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

FCBayernFTW said:


> "Access to previously restricted areas will be granted solely on a passport basis to ensure people aren't traveling clandestinely to third-party countries to get to a Greek island or Italian beach when they open up. This means that if you have an American passport-as travelers from the U.S. aren't included-you will be unwelcome no matter which country you are coming from or how long you've been there."


More correctly, it should say "This means that if you ONLY have an American passport..." :angel:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Dave 20T said:


> There's also getting car registration but the Welt does something possibly similar for German owners.


German owners show up with their license plates in hand typically, and those are immediately placed into the special grey BMW Welt license plate holder bags (which I have many of my plates in).


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Anyone happen to remember the location of the delivery center in the early 80s?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Robert A said:


> Anyone happen to remember the location of the delivery center in the early 80s?


It was in Freimann and I remember exactly how I would drive there from my apartment in StuStadt but I would have to look up the exact address.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

JSpira said:


> It was in Freimann and I remember exactly how I would drive there from my apartment in StuStadt but I would have to look up the exact address.


It may have been Freimann, but it definitely wasn't the same place as they used prior to the Welt. I'm thinking back to summer of 1984.


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## KingpenM3 (Dec 27, 2011)

I think a little bit of blame needs to be put on the many dealerships and salespeople who never bought into the program at all. Maybe this is just in the South, but I've been to many dealerships over the years that acted like they either had never heard of the program, let me know they didn't know how to set one up, or they couldn't imagine how much more getting the car through ED would cost. It was "we want to sell what is on this lot and that only". If it had not been for this site and finding a pro to set my ED's up, I doubt they would have happened.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

KingpenM3 said:


> I think a little bit of blame needs to be put on the many dealerships and salespeople who never bought into the program at all.


A little bit? Let's try a whole lot. BMW NA gave dealerships reasonably good tools (very comprehensive brochures, even going back to my first ED when I was 18) and, later on, a good and constantly improving website.

It wasn't a sale limited to Jon, Adrian, and Philip, although those three were perhaps the most prominent of salesmen for the program.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

JSpira said:


> A little bit? Let's try a whole lot. BMW NA gave dealerships reasonably good tools (very comprehensive brochures, even going back to my first ED when I was 18) and, later on, a good and constantly improving website.
> 
> It wasn't a sale limited to Jon, Adrian, and Philip, although those three were perhaps the most prominent of salesmen for the program.


I'll add Robert Lingenfelter from Crevier to the list; he personally sold over 100 ED's as of a few years ago... probably not many more after Donnie Crevier sold to Penske


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

lilskel said:


> roup1 said:
> 
> 
> > My first ED in 1999 was at the BMW Niederlassungen on Frankfurter Ring. Much simpler times. I think they threw in a cup of coffee!
> ...


I did the exact same thing! And was met with the same confusion and had a bunch of difficulty at the counter trying to explain what I wanted as the English as the service desk was a little bit limited.

Side note, you can see the bend in the top one from where my 1-day old car was backed into. Thankfully at that point they were mounting plates about an inch off the front bumper so only the plate bent.


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

JSpira said:


> It wasn't a sale limited to Jon, Adrian, and Philip, although those three were perhaps the most prominent of salesmen for the program.


Does anybody know what Philip is up to now? Sorry it's been a long time since I've been on here but really enjoyed his YouTube videos


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

Snareman said:


> I did the exact same thing! And was met with the same confusion and had a bunch of difficulty at the counter trying to explain what I wanted as the English as the service desk was a little bit limited.


Wow you did it four times haha. Side note, I believe my first and earlier Zoll plates were too small for the holder but after 2006 or so they were standard size.

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

To everyone here - please note we've established a new (virtual) sign-in book via:

*The Final Bimmerfest European Delivery Sign-In Book - Please Sign In One Last Time*


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## Chagahan (Jul 18, 2004)

this is sad :.( , I did my ED in 2004, drove to Paris in a 2005 330cic , that was my best vacation ever.


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## greentrbo95gst (Nov 22, 2005)

My ED is set for 9/8/2020. Excited, sad and scared all at the same time.


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## pawarrant (Jun 15, 2006)

greentrbo95gst said:


> My ED is set for 9/8/2020. Excited, sad and scared all at the same time.


Why scared?


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## greentrbo95gst (Nov 22, 2005)

pawarrant said:


> greentrbo95gst said:
> 
> 
> > My ED is set for 9/8/2020. Excited, sad and scared all at the same time.
> ...


Traveling with kids during these times.....traveling all together with Covid-19 at play.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

greentrbo95gst said:


> My ED is set for 9/8/2020. Excited, sad and scared all at the same time.


At this point, with the borders closed to non-Europeans to at least 31.8. and perhaps longer, I'd be scared too.

Hopefully that will be the date but it's been a moving target for a while.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Please consider sharing your "best" or favorite European Delivery trip itinerary here, photos and all in this new thread here in the ED forum:

*What Was Your Best Euro Delivery Drive / Itinerary*


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

Stevarino said:


> I got my fair share with 6 EDs. I will miss the program. Been doing X deliveries at Spartanburg also. Life goes on.


Indeed . . . IIRC, you and I took delivery the same day back in 2003. I think you've done it again a few times since then. Not me. Alas that's it and I won't get another chance.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

Zeichen311 said:


> Don't tell us - tell BMW NA. The only thing that will reverse this decision is the certain knowledge that it will hurt sales. Losing repeat customers altogether--and the grassroots marketing that comes with us--is a risk they doubtless considered but may have underestimated.


While true, lost sales are pretty hard to track. They won't know how many people *didn't* buy because of the elimination of the program. What they did know is only 500 people were doing it (or whatever), which, while partly because the attractiveness of the programs was reduced, I suspect is more because of shifting US tastes in automobiles to US-built SUVs (stupid tariffs!).

Would be interesting to know if the decline in ED says mirrors the shift in the mix of US vs EU built BMW models.


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## marianol (May 30, 2017)

Just reading this while looking for info on my next purchase........ Is very, very sad. Now that I'm finally able to do it, this has become the first item in my bucket list that I was not able to scratch...


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

marianol said:


> Just reading this while looking for info on my next purchase........ Is very, very sad. Now that I'm finally able to do it, this has become the first item in my bucket list that I was not able to scratch...


There may be a loophole for diplomatic and military sales. They still exist but I am uncertain if Welt delivery is possible.

If there was a bucket list, perhaps alternatives can be found. How about driving from Alaska to Punta Arenas, Chile, near the tip of South America. There is no road between Panama and Colombia but is ferry service. Driving from Europe to Singapore is a challenge, maybe too much of a challenge?

How about a road trip in a BMW to cover 49 states and all Canadian provinces and territories?


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## KingpenM3 (Dec 27, 2011)

While the program is done, you can still get most of the experience by just planning a trip to the Welt. Still go through the museum, check out all of the crazy stuff they have on display, grab a bite to eat, and go on the plant tour. The big thing is not getting the experience of driving your own custom designed car on European roads.


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## marianol (May 30, 2017)

Thanks @KingpenM3 & @Dave 20T Looks like will have to do the Welt trip on my own, but would have loved to take my custom BMW on the autobahn. The idea of a New York to LA or Alaska to Panama is not bad at all. Do not think I have enough for a full Americas road trip.

Dave funny you mentioned Punta Arenas, I actually did Buenos Aires to Ushuaia to Santiago Chile with the obvious stop in Punta Arenas. This was when I was a teenager with my dad


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## fishskis1 (Oct 1, 2020)

I've been out of the BMW and European Delivery world for a little while. Long enough that I couldn't retrieve my old account here ("fishskis") due to a new email address. I just read about the ending of the ED program, and I got a little sad; but then I started thinking about all of the amazing experiences and memories I had and have from my five ED's, and I'm really grateful that I had the chance to experience all of them. 

Without this forum, and the OG's Jspira and Beewang, I am not sure I would've even done this. As many have said already, thank you to the old-timers and the forum founder, whose knowledge and assistance and opinions were immeasurably helpful.

I've moved on from BMW for now. I had Threes and Sixes and Fives, and M3s and M4s, but a few years ago, I returned to Porsche, and have thoroughly enjoyed my 911 Cab for the past few years. In fact, I was supposed to be in Germany right about now for a Porsche ED for a 992 Cab; unfortunately due to Covid, my car is on a boat coming to me, instead of me going to pick it up at Zuffenhausen.

For those who did not get a chance to do a BMW ED, you can still do Mercedes or Porsche (If those cars fit your likes and budget). Or, you can buy your car here, and visit and tour BMW Welt, and splurge on renting a BMW for your European adventure. Not only does this approximate the ED experience, but, for me at least, on one issue in particular, it is nice driving someone else's car so you don't have to worry about hurting and damaging your own car! And of course the hardest thing about ED: waiting for your car to get here. Though it sure was fun and interesting learn about logistics and car transport and shipping and the Panama Canal, and obsessing and tracking the ship and watching on live cam as it moved from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Thanks for the memories.


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