# Do dealers make that much money off of sales?



## 2001E46 (Nov 12, 2002)

*BMWCCA Discount?*

I didn't know there was a discount on buying a car for being a BMWCCA member. How much is the discount, and how exactly do you cash in on it?


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

robj213 said:


> *Hey JonW, where did you buy your car in IN? Was it DeFouw in Lafayette??
> 
> And if you don't mind me asking, what kind of deal did you get? *


DeFeow is where I've been having my car serviced. And I'm quite happy with their service. But that's not where I bought my car. I got it from Motorwerks in Barrington, IL. I did Euro Delivery and Motorwerks was around $1,000 cheaper than DeFeow. It was $1500 over Euro Delivery invoice. That was almost 2 years ago.


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

BMW gives you a discount of $500 on 3 series if you are a CCA member for at least one year prior to US delivery of the new vehicle.

As for ED, my mother said the same thing about the Iraq situation. I figure that I should be pretty safe in most of Europe since they're against the war.


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

jrubens said:


> *
> 
> As for ED, my mother said the same thing about the Iraq situation. I figure that I should be pretty safe in most of Europe since they're against the war. *


What's your moms take on the domestic economy? Does she think it'll rebound?

Sorry JR, just bustin' your chops.
Seriously though, how're things lookin' for your ED? What color did you choose for the Cic? 
-AC


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: BMWCCA Discount?*



2001E46 said:


> *I didn't know there was a discount on buying a car for being a BMWCCA member. How much is the discount, and how exactly do you cash in on it? *


IIRC it's $500 after you've been a member for a year. Not sure how you'd cash in on it though... haven't had a chance!


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

Mystic Blue with Sand Interior, Uter. Currently a black soft top, but blue is possible. I'm really not sure what to do about that. Since the NA website is not showing the new colors, I can't model it see how it would look. The only pictures I've seen are with the black top (and that pic isn't even up anymore at bmw.ca).

The guys at Brian Harris told me that I would have until early March to make changes.

I'm also trying to add a full size spare, and the dealer is trying to find out if that is an option as well.
I just received an e-mail from BMW NA confirming my request for a Munich factory tour, so I'll get to see BMW's being made the day before I pick up my new one!
Any regrets about passing on the M, uter?


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

Uter, this is the black soft top.


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

There is a form in the Roundel. You send it in with proof of purchase and delivery and they send you a check.

There are a few links on the forum about the process.


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

jrubens said:


> *Mystic Blue with Sand Interior, Uter. ...
> Any regrets about passing on the M, uter?
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, plenty of regrets, just not the time.
The pic with the black top looks good.

In the meantime, I'm havin' fun in the snow with the xiT


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

JonW said:


> *DeFeow is where I've been having my car serviced. And I'm quite happy with their service. But that's not where I bought my car. I got it from Motorwerks in Barrington, IL. I did Euro Delivery and Motorwerks was around $1,000 cheaper than DeFeow. It was $1500 over Euro Delivery invoice. That was almost 2 years ago. *


ahh, good ol' barrington, IL. my hometown.


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

jrubens said:


> *I'm also trying to add a full size spare, and the dealer is trying to find out if that is an option as well.
> I just received an e-mail from BMW NA confirming my request for a Munich factory tour, so I'll get to see BMW's being made the day before I pick up my new one!
> Any regrets about passing on the M, uter?
> 
> ...


jrubens, what's the best way to arrange a factor tour? not going until june. thanks!


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Still a great bang for the buck!*



frog said:


> *Quite a few BMW Centers will do you dirty with their no budging off MSRP and loading up the car with all that protecto, tinty crap.
> Then you have places like Cutter that treat you with respect and are fair in their deal making. It is a business after all and the electricity bills need to be payed.
> 
> If you can negotiate a good $1000 to $1500 over invoice then you've done well. Your BMW has more intrinsic value then say a GMC Tahoe or a slew of other fine automobiles. How would you like to own a vehicle with all these incentives on the front end and then realize that 3 years down the line it's hardly worth squat!
> ...


 I am a client advisor at a BMW dealership in upstate NY and have spent many days in my GM's office trying to get him to take a short deal to make my quota or earn a few extra bucks. I've even taken deals just under what I knew my GM would approve of, but if he finds out after the delivery. What can he do? My point is this. If you find a good, aggressive, client advisor they will fight to get you your deal or at least I do. A short deal is better than no deal. I have a mortgage and that's why it's difficult to pass on any deal. Find a good client advisor and let them work for you. That's my advice.

TedW


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Not to diminish the value of client advisors!*



frog said:


> *TedW,
> 
> It's just been my experience that if you walk into a dealership cold the probability of getting a good deal versus a great deal is better when speaking to the sales manager.
> 
> ...


Frog,

I agree with you on that. We've got some questionable guys at our dealership just like any place else. I guess forums like this can help people find good client advisors through referrals. What's even more frightening is that there are some questionable managers out there. I think this business is weeding out the bad guys because of customers becoming more informed through forums like this. On Monday I think I'll have "sales manager" printed on my business cards.  
Maybe that'll land a few more deals. I'm just kidding about that. I think I'll just keep going the way I am and let my reputation speak for me.


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

Uter: I had a #4 with sauce and onions and some cheese fries for lunch after running at Audubon in 68 degree blue sky weather..... probably not your average February day in NH, huh?

Dustbuster: there's a link on the factory tour with all of the information. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18933&highlight=munich+factory+tour

Frog: I totally agree with you. The first dealer I talked to about ED was Peake, my local dealer, and they would not budge off of ED MSRP and seemed like they could care less whether I dealt with them or not. Also, the salesperson seemed to know less than I did about the car (of course, he doesn't read bimmerfest every day). I used the Rizzo Method by fax and then spoke to a dealer about an hour away and told them about the offers I had received and asked whether they wanted to match. The folks at that dealership know my uncle, so that probably helped.


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Hey TedW, if you don't mind my asking, what dealership are you at? I've dealt with Holtz (Rochester) and Towne (Buffalo).

Also, just as a general question, what kind of qualifications are usually required to become a BMW Client Advisor? I've often times thought about pulling a 180 in my career and honestly I couldn't think of a better way to combine my enthusiast activities and work.


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

webguy330i said:


> *Hey TedW, if you don't mind my asking, what dealership are you at? I've dealt with Holtz (Rochester) and Towne (Buffalo).
> 
> Also, just as a general question, what kind of qualifications are usually required to become a BMW Client Advisor? I've often times thought about pulling a 180 in my career and honestly I couldn't think of a better way to combine my enthusiast activities and work.  *


Webguy330I,

I'm at Carbone BMW in Utica. Prior experience in auto sales is usually a requirement as most dealers don't want to send a new sales person right into selling a highline product. Certainly, owning a BMW really helps as you probably have more knowledge than some of the sales people out there. Getting the position is the toughest part. We haven't hired any new sales people for the BMW department in six years.

TedW


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

I was about to ask the same question. I've often thought about doing the same 180 with my career and sell cars instead of being an IS lackey. Being an enthusiast, it would get me closer to the cars I love, and allow me to share my enthusiasm with others. The only thing that has kept me away all these years is the hours. I really like the M-F 7-4 job.

However, I've heard that salesmen at my old VW dealership can pull 6-digits a year (I think it was around $120k or so)... that's still more than double what I'm making now. Perhaps the hours would be worth it? I can only guess a BMW sales advisor can do better than a VW salesman...

Hmmm, now I've got myself thinking. But then again, what are the real chances of being able to sell BMWs with retail experience, but no auto sales experience?


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

OBS3SSION said:


> *Hmmm, now I've got myself thinking. But then again, what are the real chances of being able to sell BMWs with retail experience, but no auto sales experience? *


Just to throw out a completely uninformed opinion...

The Help Wanted ads (in the Washington Post) are usually full of ads for both new and used car salesmen at all kinds of dealerships (foreign & domestic). They indicate paid training and sometimes claim a minimum guaranteed compensation for the first year. It's been about a year, but I remember that Mitsu or Hyundai dealer running radio ads for new car salespeople, no experience necessary guaranteeing something in the $40-$50k range.

Selling for an upscale brand right of the gate may not be realistic (even Jon Shafer spent time hawking Nissans, or were they Datsuns back then?) but what would be wrong with selling Toyotas or Fords for a while if selling cars was what you wanted to do?


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

OBS3SSION said:


> *I was about to ask the same question. I've often thought about doing the same 180 with my career and sell cars instead of being an IS lackey. Being an enthusiast, it would get me closer to the cars I love, and allow me to share my enthusiasm with others. The only thing that has kept me away all these years is the hours. I really like the M-F 7-4 job.
> 
> However, I've heard that salesmen at my old VW dealership can pull 6-digits a year (I think it was around $120k or so)... that's still more than double what I'm making now. Perhaps the hours would be worth it? I can only guess a BMW sales advisor can do better than a VW salesman...
> 
> Hmmm, now I've got myself thinking. But then again, what are the real chances of being able to sell BMWs with retail experience, but no auto sales experience? *


It is very difficult to come in and make that kind of money right away. I've been with BMW for seven years now and in the car business for a total of thirteen years. It takes a while to earn a good reputation and build up a client base. Once you make it three years or so (your three year lease clients start to mature), it becomes easier, but if you come in with little or no experience and rely on new traffic it can be difficult.

TedW


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Ted thanks for the replies. I'm still interested and I agree experience is a necessity. I wouldn't mind selling Nissans or something, can we say 350z at cost? 

Speaking of, what kind of incentives/kickbacks to sales people get on the dealership's cars? And what's the deal with vacation/sick time, or are those non-existent in the car sales world?


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

*I love my car and I will most likely buy another BMW when it's time for a new one. Bu*

It's crazy how this whole business works, but it really boils down to this:

If you like the product and you want to buy it, you're ultimately going to buy it from the guy you like, trust, and respect. Period. Sometimes, even most of the time, there's always a better deal down the street or somewhere else.

I also believe that the salesperson has to feel the same way about the customer as well! Interesting, huh? Why? Because if the salesperson likes, trusts, and respects the customer, they're more willing to work, earn, and cut that good deal they're looking for. Most salespeople do not want to make a minimum commission which can be $100 -200 in most places for a long grinding negotiation for a small measly profit and get slammed on their CSI.

Most clients are typically willing to have the salesperson they like match or pay a little more on the deal just to buy from them.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Wow!

TedW, adrian/chrisbmw; I hadn't realized that you guys
were here. An offical welcome is due!!!



After all, this is BimmerFest.com, not *Roadfly.org *...

Sorry Charlie; *you don't have to pay $600/month* for the _priviledge_ of posting here!



It's FREE!!!!!!!!!!

Any other BMW retail personnel here that I'm not aware of?
:dunno:


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

Jon Shafer said:


> *Wow!
> 
> TedW, adrian/chrisbmw; I hadn't realized that you guys
> were here. An offical welcome is due!!!
> ...


Jon,

I've been admiring your work for some time now. I love informed customers and this forum is the best I've seen at providing good quality information for the public. Only bad sales people are afraid of knowledgeable clients. Keep up the good work and I hope that you are not offended that I am here.

TedW


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

TedW said:


> *Jon,
> 
> I've been admiring your work for some time now. I love informed customers and this forum is the best I've seen at providing good quality information for the public. Only bad sales people are afraid of knowledgeable clients. Keep up the good work and I hope that you are not offended that I am here.
> 
> TedW *


Thanks for the compliment Ted!

I am not al all offended, and I look forward to your
contibutions to our little community here.

:thumbup:


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

*thanks for the warm welcome*

Jon,

I second TedW's compliments. Kudos to this site, it's content, and most importantly it's members and there insightful input. I find it an invaluable source of info...sometimes I discover and learn more about BMW here than here at the center and I'm grateful.

As for the $600/month...is that your own money or Cutter's? Well, surely, that investment must definitely pay for itself over and over in generating business for you guys. Either way, I applaud your useful commentary and your revolutionary site.

P.S. I didn't quite agree w/ BMW NA restricting distribution of marketing materals like the 330i performance pkg info you posted from centernet. just my nickel.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: thanks for the warm welcome*



adrian/chrisbmw said:


> *
> Jon,
> 
> I second TedW's compliments. Kudos to this site, it's content, and most importantly it's members and there insightful input. I find it an invaluable source of info...sometimes I discover and learn more about BMW here than here at the center and I'm grateful.
> ...


Thanks for the feedback adrian!
I guess that I should clarify what I posted above.
I welcome your contributions here as well as everyone
else's (at no cost to anyone). Just as I believe that
minimal moderation on message boards such as this
is a better way to go (I can count all of the threads
that I have deleted on a single hand - and most of those
were my own), I do not think that it is justified to charge
people a fee to contribute their knowledge in a forum such
as this. The webmaster ("Guru" Charlie) over at .org raised 
our rate so high we had to say pass, and now It's been
requested that I not post over there at all any more.

Adrian, as long as you and Ted (and others) add to the
body of knowledge here, I will never attempt to extort
money out of you. If you would like to advertise, you 
are more than welcomed to. However, it is not a requisite
condition to be met as a member of BimmerFest.

:angel:

P.S. You can get an optional banner for only $50/ month here...


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: thanks for the warm welcome*



Jon Shafer said:


> *P.S. You can get an optional banner for only $50/ month here...  *


A true salesman.


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

webguy330i said:


> *Ted thanks for the replies. I'm still interested and I agree experience is a necessity. I wouldn't mind selling Nissans or something, can we say 350z at cost?
> 
> Speaking of, what kind of incentives/kickbacks to sales people get on the dealership's cars? And what's the deal with vacation/sick time, or are those non-existent in the car sales world? *


Believe it or not we have to negotiate just like you. I get three weeks paid vacation. My vacation pay is determined by what I average weekly in the 56 weeks prior to the vacation. As for sick time. That's funny. You can take all the time you need, but don't forget we don't get any salary so if your not there you're not making any money. Also, if your not at the dealership there are plenty of eager sales people there that will be happy to help (take) your customer. I'm the only sales person at my dealership that's allowed to take a BMW Demo. I currently have a 2003 325XI and that's a great perk, but I earned it. I hope this helps.

Ted


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

TedW said:


> *Believe it or not we have to negotiate just like you. I get three weeks paid vacation. My vacation pay is determined by what I average weekly in the 56 weeks prior to the vacation. As for sick time. That's funny. You can take all the time you need, but don't forget we don't get any salary so if your not there you're not making any money. Also, if your not at the dealership there are plenty of eager sales people there that will be happy to help (take) your customer. I'm the only sales person at my dealership that's allowed to take a BMW Demo. I currently have a 2003 325XI and that's a great perk, but I earned it. I hope this helps.
> 
> Ted *


Ted, thanks so much for the info. I figured as much about sick days, but that's interesting about vacation. Is that standard (or maybe 1 or 2 weeks) and is there generally a waiting period before you can cash in on vacation time at all?

If you don't mind my asking, what kind of perks can you get if you bought a new car yourself? At cost minus some amount?

Again thanks. Feel free to not answer anything that might be too prying.


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

webguy330i said:


> *Ted, thanks so much for the info. I figured as much about sick days, but that's interesting about vacation. Is that standard (or maybe 1 or 2 weeks) and is there generally a waiting period before you can cash in on vacation time at all?
> 
> If you don't mind my asking, what kind of perks can you get if you bought a new car yourself? At cost minus some amount?
> 
> Again thanks. Feel free to not answer anything that might be too prying.  *


After one year of employment we get one week of vacation, after two years we get two weeks and after five years we get three weeks. Three weeks is the cap here. BMW has a program in place that allows for the top performers (sales and CSI), to get a sweet deal on a one year lease. I'm the only one at my dealership to qualify for this, but I don't do it. The demo is free and no insurance. There is no program in place at my dealership for employee purchse of BMW's. If I wanted to buy a BMW for myself I would have to negotiate with my GM and I would have a tough time getting a deal at invoice let alone below.

Ted


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

TedW said:


> *After one year of employment we get one week of vacation, after two years we get two weeks and after five years we get three weeks. Three weeks is the cap here. BMW has a program in place that allows for the top performers (sales and CSI), to get a sweet deal on a one year lease. I'm the only one at my dealership to qualify for this, but I don't do it. The demo is free and no insurance. There is no program in place at my dealership for employee purchse of BMW's. If I wanted to buy a BMW for myself I would have to negotiate with my GM and I would have a tough time getting a deal at invoice let alone below.
> 
> Ted *


Good deal. If you don't mind my asking, how long did it take you to become one of the top performers? I'm gonna guess, oh, 2 years. Maybe 3...

What all does it take? Have you made connections within your dealership to get things like free floormats and wheel locks and such for customers when they ask for them? Do you do the whole "walk" into the sales manager's office to discuss a deal every time a customer questions the price (this would be during negotiations)?

Just trying to get a general feel for things. Thanks again.


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

webguy330i said:


> *Good deal. If you don't mind my asking, how long did it take you to become one of the top performers? I'm gonna guess, oh, 2 years. Maybe 3...
> 
> What all does it take? Have you made connections within your dealership to get things like free floormats and wheel locks and such for customers when they ask for them? Do you do the whole "walk" into the sales manager's office to discuss a deal every time a customer questions the price (this would be during negotiations)?
> 
> Just trying to get a general feel for things. Thanks again. *


I sold cars for six years prior to BMW. I made "honors status" in my third year with BMW. What it take to be honors status varies according to the size of the dealership. My dealership is small and currently I need a CSI at or above 97% and 100 new units per year to qualify.

I work my own deals, but I do on occasion have to consult my GM on certain deals. If a customer makes an questionable offer on an aged unit for example, I would consult with my GM.

Ted


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: Re: thanks for the warm welcome*

:angel:



Jon Shafer said:


> *P.S. You can get an optional banner for only $50/ month here...  *


Jon,

I'm interested in a banner. Tell me how to proceed.

Ted


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

TedW said:


> *I sold cars for six years prior to BMW. I made "honors status" in my third year with BMW. What it take to be honors status varies according to the size of the dealership. My dealership is small and currently I need a CSI at or above 97% and 100 new units per year to qualify.
> 
> I work my own deals, but I do on occasion have to consult my GM on certain deals. If a customer makes an questionable offer on an aged unit for example, I would consult with my GM.
> 
> Ted *


Gotcha... that seems like the way it should be. Is it generally up to the dealership policy as to how you go about negotiating? Or is it strictly the preference of the sales person?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: thanks for the warm welcome*



TedW said:


> *
> Jon,
> 
> I'm interested in a banner. Tell me how to proceed.
> ...


There's a link for sponsorship on the main forum
page, but the easiest thing to do is send an email.


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

webguy330i said:


> *Gotcha... that seems like the way it should be. Is it generally up to the dealership policy as to how you go about negotiating? Or is it strictly the preference of the sales person? *


No dealership policy. You just do the best you can given the cicumstances at the time.

Ted


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

TedW said:


> *No dealership policy. You just do the best you can given the cicumstances at the time.
> 
> Ted *


Thanks again for your comments! Highly interesting... it's got me thinkin'.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

webguy330i said:


> *Gotcha... that seems like the way it should be. Is it generally up to the dealership policy as to how you go about negotiating? Or is it strictly the preference of the sales person? *


We always try to match or tailor our approach to what 
the client's wants, needs, and expectations are...

That is not always as easy to do as it sounds;
many intervening variables!


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> *We always try to match or tailor our approach to what
> the client's wants, needs, and expectations are...
> 
> That is not always as easy to do as it sounds;
> ...


I can only imagine, really. People like me walk into dealerships with folders full of information about the car, prices, other dealership quotes... I mean I bet it can get overwhelming. Luckily I happen to have been on that side of the game so I bet I could tackle it correctly.

Who knows though for sure. I am going to explore getting a part-time at a dealership around here just to see if this really is the thing for me. :thumbup:


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

*Applause for TedW*

*TedW* was my client advisor for my European Delivery process. I'm one happy customer!


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

Some writers to the board have indicated that they have received very poor service from dealers that they did not purchase the vehicle from. Others have said that the only thing you lose is the courtesy loaner.

It probably is a crap shoot, but you might want to ask people in your local CCA chapter about their experiences....


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

kevinjs said:


> *Thanks for the reply Ted. Just another thought. If I had an ED with a dealer a few states away, but picked up the auto at that dealership, would the regular service required of the auto, or any future problems, be deminished due to the fact that it was purchased elsewhere? Thanks *


No. Customer satisfaction surveys help eliminate that. Plus don't forget that the center gets paid by BMWNA for service work. I agree that getting a loaner car my be difficult, but other than that you shouldn't have a problem getting quality service.

Ted


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