# BMW --- Love and Hate Relationship



## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

kurichan said:


> How practical is a car that you can never drive because it's always in the shop? First my 330i had idle fluctuations -- now that they've "fixed" it, it idles like a frickin diesel tractor. How's that quality and refinement? The brakes squeek, the radio won't stay tuned, the speakers rattle and the doors don't close right. The remote entry has malfunctioned numerous times...


I have the same car like yours for 17 months and 29k miles. I also have some of your problems. But so far it has only been in the shop for 2 days (the 14k and 28k maintenance). I was having so much fun for the rest of the 500 days. So, it's up to you if you want it to be in the shop or not. It does not HAVE to be in the shop. It's your choice. But if you are that meticulous about these little problems, then you really should drive a Japanese car, and I'm serious.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

mkh said:


> I have the same car like yours for 17 months and 29k miles. I also have some of your problems. But so far it has only been in the shop for 2 days (the 14k and 28k maintenance). I was having so much fun for the other 500 days. So, it's up to you if you want it to be in the shop or not. It does not HAVE to be in the shop. It's your choice. But if you are that meticulous about these little problems, then you really should drive a Japanese car, and I'm serious.


Stalling car = safety problem. My children ride in my car. Calling drivability issues "little problems" borders on the absurd. A $43,000 car should at least RUN right. Expecting quality for this price is not overly demanding. I refuse to be an apologist for BMW. There are many wonderful things about these cars, but let's face it, the quality is no longer up to snuff, and the mystique is becoming increasingly hollow.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

You sound really bitter. If your BMW is really that bad, trade it in for a Toyota Camry - totally bland and reliable performance. Also, it is very safe because you'll never be tempted to drive it past 45 mph.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

xspeedy said:


> You sound really bitter. If your BMW is really that bad, trade it in for a Toyota Camry - totally bland and reliable performance. Also, it is very safe because you'll never be tempted to drive it past 45 mph.


I don't understand why people deflect and change the subject like this, throw out red herrings, and do it in a snide and insulting way. I guess that's the way it goes when there is no longer a factual basis to continue the debate.

As per the subject: I love the car, I hate the car. Based on personal experience, I think quality is going downhill fast and the mystique is hollowing out. Isn't that what we were talking about?


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

kurichan said:


> I don't understand why people deflect and change the subject like this, throw out red herrings, and do it in an insulting way. I guess that's the way it goes when there is no longer a factual basis to continue the debate.


If I'm insulting anything, it is the Toyota Camry. We have one and it is bulletproof (except for a failed oxygen sensor). But it is indeed as bland as a Kenmore refrigerator.

I had a 330i for nine months and 12,000 miles. The only problems I had were:

A rattle in the rear caused by a missing rear shock mount bushing (replaced shock mount)
An off center steering wheel (corrected with an alignment)
Idle drop/stall while stopped (lived with it even though fix was avail)

If anyone changed the subject, it was you. This thread was about why people stand behind their vehicles even though they have problems. I stated that it was the great driving experience. You replied that you disagree because your car has been nothing but trouble. How can you disagree about a great driving experience by saying your car is unreliable?


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

kurichan said:


> Stalling car = safety problem. My children ride in my car.


If you are that concerned sell it and get something else you will feel safe in.



kurichan said:


> don't understand why people deflect and change the subject like this, throw out red herrings, and do it in a snide and insulting way. I guess that's the way it goes when there is no longer a factual basis to continue the debate.
> 
> As per the subject: I love the car, I hate the car. Based on personal experience, I think quality is going downhill fast and the mystique is hollowing out. Isn't that what we were talking about?


You seem to be the only one that feels they are being insulted. I think we are on topic... you are unhappy with the marque because IMHO you place a higher set of values on reliability, so I think you should look at other options. I myself have been very happy with the marque.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

xspeedy said:


> If anyone changed the subject, it was you.


You're reading what you want to see. Go back and read again...


> This thread was about why people stand behind their vehicles even though they have problems. I stated that it was the great driving experience. You replied that you disagree because your car has been nothing but trouble. How can you disagree about a great driving experience by saying your car is unreliable?


How can you have a great driving experience when your car doesn't RUN RIGHT was my point. It makes perfect sense...

*He summarized the thread as: "What is the BMW Mystique?!?!?!"*

*Me:* I think BMW is going downhill fast. (re the love hate relationship/mystique)

*You:* At least when you take your BMW in for warranty work, they don't tell you your warranty is void because you "raced" it.

*Me:* There are many wonderful things about these cars, but let's face it, the quality is no longer up to snuff, and the mystique is becoming increasingly hollow.

*You:* You sound really bitter. If your BMW is really that bad, trade it in for a Toyota Camry - totally bland and reliable performance. Also, it is very safe because you'll never be tempted to drive it past 45 mph.

Now WHO is changing the subject and not addressing the issues directly? I talk about the mystique losing luster and offer the opinion that people are uneccesarily standing by their vehicles despite the troubles, perfectly germaine to the subject at hand, and you call me bitter???

Tell us why the mystique retains its luster instead of flinging insults and making snide remarks...


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Stalling car = safety problem. My children ride in my car. Calling drivability issues "little problems" borders on the absurd. A $43,000 car should at least RUN right. Expecting quality for this price is not overly demanding. I refuse to be an apologist for BMW. There are many wonderful things about these cars, but let's face it, the quality is no longer up to snuff, and the mystique is becoming increasingly hollow.


I thought your stalling/idling fluctuation had been fixed, no? I would agree with you if your car keeps stalling, and that's unacceptable to me too. But the problems you mentioned earlier are NOT drivability related, and are the ones I considered little - brake squeal, speaker rattle, radio won't stay tuned, etc. Is your car in the shop just for that? No, I'm not saying that you are overly demanding, and you have every right to demand that. What I'm saying is German engineering is like that in general, be it MBZ, BMW, Audi, VW. What you experienced in your '00 528iT was abnormal, and you were very fortunate. As I mentioned earlier, I have had 5 German cars and they all had these minor glitches. The 330i is not the worst, the '87 325is was, and so was the '99 SLK. So BMW's quality is not "no longer up to snuff", it is ALWAYS not up to snuff if you are comparing it to the Japanese. I have also owned 4 Hondas and Acuras before and they had no problems whatsoever, and their prices were much much lower than the German's.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

gojira-san said:


> If you are that concerned sell it and get something else you will feel safe in.


So I should take a huge depreciation hit on a two month old car because BMW can't make their cars work right?

Why should I suffer because BMW can't get it right?


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

mkh said:


> No, I'm not saying that you are overly demanding, and you have every right to demand that. What I'm saying is German engineering is like that in general, be it MBZ, BMW, Audi, VW. What you experienced in your '00 528iT was abnormal, and you were very fortunate. As I mentioned earlier, I have had 5 German cars and they all had these minor glitches. The 330i is not the worst, the '87 325is was, and so was the '99 SLK. So BMW's quality is not "no longer up to snuff", it is ALWAYS not up to snuff if you are comparing it to the Japanese. I have also owned 4 Hondas and Acuras before and they had no problems whatsoever, and their prices were much much lower than the German's.


Thanks for the level comments mkh. I guess I just had unrealistic expectations based on the price, the marque mystique and our previous experience with our 5er.

The way you put it makes sense to me.

I guess I just have to radically lower my expectations regarding the quality of the car and just enjoy the good points.


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## rgzimmer (May 1, 2004)

Hmm... My car is an absolute blast. 9000 miles and no issues.

Every manufacturer has problem vehicles. I forget the statistic, but for every complaint, there are numerous satisfied and problem free customers that never say a word. Most BMW drivers don't know or care that these forums exist, but the ones having problems almost certainly start to research them and find each other in places like this. From everything I have found, JDPower, Consumer Reports, etc, BMW ranks better than average. 

It's unfortunate that some people get the bad ones and even more unfortunate for BMW that it happens to people like kurichan who would otherwise be likely to purchase again in the future. His issue, though, isn't a complete reflection of BMW's overall reliability. It is a reflection on the reliability of the vehicle he purchased and is but one factor in the overall equation. (not belittling the issue, just putting it into perspective)

Would I buy another BMW? Probably. I may or may not get an E90, but I won't know until I actually see and drive one. I would like to get an E46 M3 vert, but it is out of my price range today. I may end up getting a 5 series in the next couple of years, but I haven't decided, yet. I love my car otherwise and enjoy driving it each and every day.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

rumratt said:


> How does that make any sense. Because you got a lemon, you disagree that the BMW drives better than anything else on the road.


Not what I was saying though I do see how you could interpret my post that way.

To clarify, regardless of quality, I do not agree that the BMW drives better than anything else on the road. Depending on what handling characteristics you seek, there are cars that handle better than BMW's. Quality has nothing to do with that issue in my mind.

My rant on quality was meant to be discreet and was amplified in reply to the statement that the Evo and WRX are impractical. My WRX was more practical than my 330i so far because it was always available to drive. The 330i has been nothing but problems and has required service. I don't find a car that doesn't run right and needs repeated service to be practical.


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

kurichan said:


> So I should take a huge depreciation hit on a two month old car because BMW can't make their cars work right?
> 
> Now that makes sense.


Yep, I've done it before. That was in the days before the lemon laws. I sold a 3 month old car because it spent about a month total time in the shop. I won't bother mentioning the marque other than it was an American car and I knew other people who had that car who never had problems.

So, either that or wait for it to get fixed, or go after a lemon law with it.

To answer your question on mystique, no I don't believe in that. You like the driving experience or you don't. It could be a BMW or a Buick or a Bugatti. If I enjoy the driving experience and I can afford it I will buy it.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

I can only speak from my experience, but it seems to be the luck of the draw as far as reliability is concerned. My father bought a Toyota Avalon the same time I bought my 325i. He's back and forth to the dealer constantly with problems where I've only been back for oil changes. Knock wood. Plus, I think one of the reasons the Camrys, Accords, etc. seem more reliable is that they never get driven very hard. From what I read on these boards many Bimmer owners drive the crap out of them. Even after more than 2 years I still get excited every time I drive my car. I never felt that way about my Hondas.


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## Scott_H (Feb 12, 2003)

Motown328 said:


> Why is it that even though BMW (especially recent models) have their maintenance problems and repeated service visits, owners tend to stand by and defend their vehicle???


Simple. To quote a corny card that I got from my wife years ago.....

We love _although_, we like _because_.


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## ProcyonB (Aug 16, 2004)

kurichan said:


> Tell us why the mystique retains its luster instead of flinging insults and making snide remarks...


The "mystique" retains its luster because you are the only one here with a lemon, apparently. It happens to every automaker -- Lexus, BMW, Acura et cetera all turn out the occassional lemon. So for you, there is no mystique because you are apparently having a terrible experience. The answer to your repeated question is "You can't have fun in a car if that car doesn't work properly."

So it is your decision to either buy another BMW or to try something else. Get an Audi, or Acura, or Lexus, or whatever you think will make you happiest -- you will either have fun in it, or you will be the kind of person that will find something to hate about your new car. It's your personality and your life -- make the best of it and good luck with your decision. :thumbup:


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## eelnoraa (Oct 13, 2003)

kurichan said:


> So I should take a huge depreciation hit on a two month old car because BMW can't make their cars work right?
> 
> Why should I suffer because BMW can't get it right?


Have you consider the Lemon Law, make BMW buy back you car since it is so new, multiple problems that dealer cannot seems to be able to fixed. I have a friend who got BMW to buy back his 330 for the stall/idling problem. Maybe you should give a try.

eel


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## rruiter (Feb 10, 2004)

Motown328 said:


> Although this might have been posted before in various forms and sizes, I don't think it has ever been addressed directly.
> 
> Why is it that even though BMW (especially recent models) have their maintenance problems and repeated service visits, owners tend to stand by and defend their vehicle???
> 
> ...


uhm, the driving experience ? Even now, after the 3 series is about to be renewed , almost every car magazine claims that the 3 series is still on top.
You have to drive it to know it.


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## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

I've had mostly Toyotas and Hondas in my recent automotive history (all either given or bought by in-laws or spouse), and these cars have been pretty rock-solid (although the Camry did have a valve job at 112,000 miles, a fuel pump replaced, oxygen sensors and the like).

My 1996 Camry, when I got it had 34 miles on it; 6 years later, it had about 170,000 miles. Seeing my oldest approach the "Hey, I Need Some Wheels Because As A Southern Californian, Driving Is My Birthright" age , I decided to save wear and tear on the Camry for him, and get myself a new car.

I'd never bought a car for myself before - I researched and test drove pretty much every car in the near-luxury segment (when I saw the new Camry, I just didn't like it); I was 44 years old, and I wanted a Car For Mom  . I perfected my Manual Transmission Princess persona, I *made* the Cadillac, Lexus, Volvo, Saab and Audi dealers find me a *manual* to test drive (the Audi experience was something else - we had to go to a lot across town, and the manual was buried under dust and leaves - but I drove it anyway)

At the time, the Infiniti G35 and Acura TL were not available with *real* transmissions; and I went to "Fletcher Jones Motor Cars, Mercedes Benz, Newport Beach" *three* times because they said they had a manual, and when I got there, they told me they couldn't find it! :throw:

I test drove the Bimmer last (I first went to Savage BMW in Ontario and then to Crevier because Crevier actually had a *manual* available to test drive) - as soon as I drove it, I knew it was the car for me. The exhaust note, the handling, the interior (which some find Spartan, but I like driving a car that doesn't make me think I'm on the bridge of the Enterprise) - the only other car that came close was the Lexus IS300, and I didn't care for the 'Snoop Dogg' styling, the 20,000-mile low-profile tires (oh, I could have gotten different ones).

At 4 months, I had a Bad Ignition Coil 3, which was promptly fixed; I've had the H/K Stereo Buzz (mostly fixed, occasionally recurs), an issue with the wood trim on the driver's side (fixed) - when I picked up Karl Bimmer (325i) on 9 December 2004, he had 14 miles, almost two years later - * 53,400+ miles, (85,440 kilometers, Mr. Moderator )*.

The brakes have been replaced at 29,000 and 49,800 miles; I've recently had the rear CV joints, front bushings and engine belts replaced, but that was at 52,500 miles. I do tons of driving, so I'm putting a lot of wear and tear on the car.

I *love* my Bimmer; is it more hassle, in a sense than my Camry? Yes - but it's a whole *hell* of a lot more fun to drive! Would I get another one? Yep! :thumbup:


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## AndDown (Jun 17, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Thanks for the level comments mkh. I guess I just had unrealistic expectations based on the price, the marque mystique and our previous experience with our 5er.
> 
> The way you put it makes sense to me.
> 
> I guess I just have to radically lower my expectations regarding the quality of the car and just enjoy the good points.


I recall you posted an earlier write-up about misgivings in taking delivery of the ZHP http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64855 Appears that your gut feelings were right. I have two bimmers and they both have done as well or better than my previous Japanese cars - sorry to hear about your experiences with this one you currently have. I walked out on a Mazda deal once because the car's air intake was extra loud; the salesman said it was normal, but my intuition kept pulling on my ear and I'm glad I listened. Looks like you need to trade your ZHP in for something else.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

Motown328 said:


> Why is it that even though BMW (especially recent models) have their maintenance problems and repeated service visits, owners tend to stand by and defend their vehicle???
> ...
> *Yes, I know that driving experience is tops.*
> ...
> ...


ASKED AND ANSWERED!! 

You write off the driving experience as if there were something more significant to the BMW passion. I'm gonna bet most BMW salespeople are pretty confident that they can sell any of their cars just by tossing the keys at a customer for a test drive. For any customer that walks on a dealer's lot, there is _at least one_ BMW that will meet their definition of a great driving experience.

Also, they look great.

And sorry *kurichan* about your bad luck and that you aren't out enjoying your car. For what it's worth, mine was built around March 1 of this year, and I have only had one hiccup in June and it resolved itself after I pulled over and restarted the engine. Nothing broken yet (knock), no rattles, sound system is great to my ears, and performance is still enough to make me grin and the happiness is still with me even as I sit in traffic inching up a hill. Good luck with whatever measures are necessary to get you satisfied. :thumbup:


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## dmz (Apr 22, 2004)

I think better handling on a street car means that you can drive it hard without getting beat up like on a EVO and WRX. Comon anyone can make a car handle great on the track with some stiff springs and sticky tires, but no one would want to drive it on the street. BMW seems to be the only car company who know how to tune their suspension to do both. I owned a EVO for 3 month and traded it in because the rough ride was unbearable for a daily driver and because it was so still the whole interior was rattling and felt like the whole car was falling apart. It was a fun car in the first month but it got old really quick.

You keep saying that BMW quality is down but of hundreds of BMW owner her does not seem to have as much problem as you. Is it possible on a slim chance that you got a lemon and you are trying to use that experience to say that all BMW have as much problem as your which is far from the truth. I can see how you can be bitter. I know I would be too if spent so much money for a BMW and it keeps braking down. Maybe is time for you to cut your loses and sell your problematic BMW and get something else more reliable, which could just be another BMW you know. :dunno:



kurichan said:


> Not what I was saying though I do see how you could interpret my post that way.
> 
> To clarify, regardless of quality, I do not agree that the BMW drives better than anything else on the road. Depending on what handling characteristics you seek, there are cars that handle better than BMW's. Quality has nothing to do with that issue in my mind.
> 
> My rant on quality was meant to be discreet and was amplified in reply to the statement that the Evo and WRX are impractical. My WRX was more practical than my 330i so far because it was always available to drive. The 330i has been nothing but problems and has required service. I don't find a car that doesn't run right and needs repeated service to be practical.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

dmz said:


> I think better handling on a street car means that you can drive it hard without getting beat up like on a EVO and WRX. Comon anyone can make a car handle great on the track with some stiff springs and sticky tires, but no one would want to drive it on the street. BMW seems to be the only car company who know how to tune their suspension to do both. I owned a EVO for 3 month and traded it in because the rough ride was unbearable for a daily driver and because it was so still the whole interior was rattling and felt like the whole car was falling apart. It was a fun car in the first month but it got old really quick.
> 
> You keep saying that BMW quality is down but of hundreds of BMW owner her does not seem to have as much problem as you. Is it possible on a slim chance that you got a lemon and you are trying to use that experience to say that all BMW have as much problem as your which is far from the truth. I can see how you can be bitter. I know I would be too if spent so much money for a BMW and it keeps braking down. Maybe is time for you to cut your loses and sell your problematic BMW and get something else more reliable, which could just be another BMW you know. :dunno:


Ah, but jd power, cr all back up his claim. BMW's are middling in quality. Middle of the pack, imho, is failing.

Could be worse...he could have a mini.


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> Something called bumper to bumper 4/50,000 mile warranty.


Hyunday has better.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> Hyunday has better.


Yeah a 5/60,000 but then again it is a Hyundai, not the most exciting or good looking cars and not a luxury car. I wonder how well they hold resale value?


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> Yeah a 5/60,000 but then again it is a Hyundai, not the most exciting or good looking cars and not a luxury car. I wonder how well they hold resale value?


Still, it's better than BMW. But you wouldn't want a Hyunday.
My point is that the warranty can't be the reason why people want a BMW.
In fact, I submit that people want a BMW despite the limited warranty.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> Ah, but jd power, cr all back up his claim. BMW's are middling in quality. Middle of the pack, imho, is failing.


I only know from EXPERIENCE but this was my impression too. I suspect (from experience) that BMW (along w/MB) has struggled to get glitch free electronics into their cars.

There are quite a few comments about everyone's car being fine and mine being the only one that has problems, but if we go into other threads, I see lots of problems.

Furthermore, do you guys know how many 7's were repurchased by BMW? They have hidden the data well, but I have it from a trustworthy source (who is not Dan Rather!) that the number was signficant. As I said in one of my posts above, my neighbor's 745 was in 11 times in 18 months. V8 and V12 engined BMWs recalled for stopping dead... Etc. etc. JD Powers has spoken too... As BMW has integrated electronics and ramped production significantly and increased the number of factories, it has struggled to maintain quality. It's thriving on mystique, not quality...

blueguydotcom is talking facts. Anyone care to approach this empirically and look at the data over a few years?


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

dmz said:


> Is it possible on a slim chance that you got a lemon and you are trying to use that experience to say that all BMW have as much problem as your which is far from the truth.


It's possible, BUT, the two X3's I have driven as loaners while the 330 was (not) being fixed seem to scream that the quality problem is more widespread. At least my subframe hasn't torn away yet! :rofl:


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

dmz said:


> I think better handling on a street car means that you can drive it hard without getting beat up like on a EVO and WRX.


The Evo is a bonerattler. I disagree that the WRX is. Regardless, in raw handling, both are far better than the 330. Granted, totally, different experiences, but the Evo and WRX outhandle the 330, contrary to the post above that stated that BMW rules all.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> Still, it's better than BMW. But you wouldn't want a Hyunday.
> My point is that the warranty can't be the reason why people want a BMW.
> In fact, I submit that people want a BMW despite the limited warranty.


My original post was pointing out that with a 4 year 50,000 bumper to bumper warranty it really is not a big deal with repairs (besides any inconvenience) because 98% of all repairs will be covered.

Sure if you keep the car 5-6 years reliability may be of some concern than again maybe not.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

JetBlack330i said:


> My point is that the warranty can't be the reason why people want a BMW.
> In fact, I submit that people want a BMW despite the limited warranty.


Do you mean "regardless of warranty?" I wouldn't agree with "despite the ... warranty"

I think that considering the price, people have come to expect it. But more than that, it allows BMW a shot to keep its customers happy despite the problems. In fact, the only persistent problem I can recall we had with our 528iT was that the cupholders kept breaking. They were really poorly designed. It seemed like every time the car was in, they automatically replaced most of them to keep us happy. That made a good, lasting impression that might be why I felt comfortable getting another BMW. But my problems with the 330 go way past cupholders, so the feeling isn't so comfy this time.

It also allows the dealers to make a ton of money off service. Manufacturers keeping their dealers happy seems like a very GOOD thing.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

kurichan said:



> The Evo is a bonerattler. I disagree that the WRX is. Regardless, in raw handling, both are far better than the 330. Granted, totally, different experiences, but the Evo and WRX outhandle the 330, contrary to the post above that stated that BMW rules all.


I assume you mean either the STi, or a modified WRX, cause the stock WRX is an understeering rolly-polly pig.


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

kurichan said:


> The Evo is a bonerattler. I disagree that the WRX is. Regardless, in raw handling, both are far better than the 330. Granted, totally, different experiences, but the Evo and WRX outhandle the 330, contrary to the post above that stated that BMW rules all.


I had an 04 STi for 7 months and traded it for my 04 330i. I don't regret the decision in anyway. The only thing the STi had over the 330i is raw power. As far as handling, I'm more comfortable with the 330i and it doesn't understeer as easily as the STi did and it's so much better balanced. There is no way you can compare the fit and finish of the 330 and the WRX, and so far the service department at the BMW dealer is 10 times more professional then the Subaru. The STi is a fun car there's no doubt, but for an everyday driver there are some things about it that get old really fast.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Moderato said:


> and so far the service department at the BMW dealer is 10 times more professional then the Subaru.


I wish I could compare, but I hardly had the pleasure to visit the Subaru service department in the three years I had the car. The BMW's been in 3x in two months, still doesn't run right and the speakers still rattle... (as far as fit, the Suby so far has been BETTER) I can only go by experience...

I can say that Subaru service never filled my wife's brake lines with air when doing the brakes, gave the car back to her then repeatedly ignored her complaints when she said the brakes felt mushy. BMW did... Not what I call professional.

As per the subject, I repeat that I too have a love hate relationship with the car. The wonderful traits are many. But the flaws really do take away. Setting aside the mechanical flaws for a second, things like rattling speakers on a $40K plus car really are inexcusable. How can BMW justify that? If they want to maintain the marque, they REALLY need to get these things right. I don't buy the "if you want a good stereo, don't buy a BMW" apology. It's bunk. They market it as a premium car. If they want to maintain their image, they need to deliver a premium car, even down to the details.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

Motown328 said:


> Although this might have been posted before in various forms and sizes, I don't think it has ever been addressed directly.
> 
> Why is it that even though BMW (especially recent models) have their maintenance problems and repeated service visits, owners tend to stand by and defend their vehicle???
> 
> ...


About 2 years ago I posted similar experiences on my BMW and I couldn't under stand why so many things could go wrong with a $40,000 + automobile and got bashed by everyone that replied except one (ROBG) and he was some what simpathetic about the problems I was having.The dealer(JMK) I go to was great in fixing all the things that were wrong all under warrenty.When it comes down to the nitty gritty IMO there is no car out there that can compare to a BMW.I'm in the process of ordering my third one.
Hang in there Good luck


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

rruiter said:


> uhm, the driving experience ? Even now, after the 3 series is about to be renewed , almost every car magazine claims that the 3 series is still on top.
> You have to drive it to know it.


Look at CAR & DRIVER magazine. The only way the 3 series gets knocked off in a comparison is by price. Heck, the latest issue rigged a test by starting out with explaining why they won't let a 325 into the comparision. The best of anything always commands a premium.

But why did I buy a BMW, namely a 330Ci?

Before even looking at BMW's, I car-pooled with an e36 328i owner. I feel in love with that car. For me, its the perfect balance between ride and handling, with a dash of style, refinement, and luxury for good measure. After my test drive, everything else felt like a compromise.

As far as reliability, I've only owned one trouble free car: a 1992 Saturn that went 230,000 miles for me with zero issues. Sold it because it was a soul-less transportation appliance. Heck, at work, the person at my office with the most problems has a Camry, and I know people who won't buy a Honda again based on their problems. Its the luck of the draw.


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## Chendol (Jul 15, 2003)

kurichan said:


> I wish I could compare, but I hardly had the pleasure to visit the Subaru service department in the three years I had the car. The BMW's been in 3x in two months, still doesn't run right and the speakers still rattle... (as far as fit, the Suby so far has been BETTER) I can only go by experience...
> 
> I can say that Subaru service never filled my wife's brake lines with air when doing the brakes, gave the car back to her then repeatedly ignored her complaints when she said the brakes felt mushy. BMW did... Not what I call professional.
> 
> As per the subject, I repeat that I too have a love hate relationship with the car. The wonderful traits are many. But the flaws really do take away. Setting aside the mechanical flaws for a second, things like rattling speakers on a $40K plus car really are inexcusable. How can BMW justify that? If they want to maintain the marque, they REALLY need to get these things right. I don't buy the "if you want a good stereo, don't buy a BMW" apology. It's bunk. They market it as a premium car. If they want to maintain their image, they need to deliver a premium car, even down to the details.


You have to relax. I used to feel the same way when I had an Audi A4. What? Pay all that $$ and the car is in the shop once a month for problem (major or minor). Finally sold it and got an Accord which gave me a few minor problems as well but generally good.

I don't buy the argument that $40k car means speakers can't rattle and everything has to be perfect. You can buy a lexus or Acura and still have these niggling issues and you'll also conclude that Lexus/Acura reliability sucks.

My speaker rattles, brakes squeak, steering wheel squeaks, but hey, enjoy the car. Once you no longer do, it's time to move on to something else.

Since the Suby has served you well, you might consider trading in for the Legacy?


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## BMWNA (Jan 15, 2002)

I’m with BMW of North America, LLC. I’m so sorry your recent service experience was not what you expected. We are here to work with you and your BMW center. If you would like our assistance, please give us a call us at (800) 831-1117, and mention Reference #200427200193 so that we can help you more efficiently.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

vatkens said:


> I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. I'm so sorry your recent service experience was not what you expected. We are here to work with you and your BMW center. If you would like our assistance, please give us a call us at (800) 831-1117, and mention Reference #200427200193 so that we can help you more efficiently.


Here come the Cavalry!

Good luck kurichan... :thumbup:


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

vatkens said:


> I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. I'm so sorry your recent service experience was not what you expected. We are here to work with you and your BMW center. If you would like our assistance, please give us a call us at (800) 831-1117, and mention Reference #200427200193 so that we can help you more efficiently.


PLEASE say you're talking to me, and you're going to wave your magic wand and make it all alright...


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