# 2016 X5 Diesel story and questions



## notanaudi (Feb 15, 2012)

Thanks to everyone that makes this site awesome.

Decided on a diesel based off of power and efficiency
Couldn't find a used 14 or 15 so I placed an order in mid Nov after making sure with dealer there are no issues or delays with Diesel.

Received a production number 12/3
To date still have not received a build date
Being told 3rd week in Jan but nothing confirmed 
MSRP 69,230 paying 62,500 plus tax an 199. Doc fee

Decided on PDC once finished

Did I get a good deal
Did I make a mistake by getting a new diesel

Once received what is the best diesel to run I live in MA and the pumps say low sulfur

What can I do to reduce or eliminate carbon build up 

What's the best way to get 200k miles out of this I stay up on all required maintenance I actually like getting the oil changed at 5-7k

I have 260k miles on my 2006 325i, just nervous of the new diesel, never had one before

Thank you all for the help!!


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

notanaudi said:


> [ ... ]What can I do to reduce or eliminate carbon build up [ ... ]


*Drive it like you stole it!*


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

As I own the 335D cannot answer much about the cost. As far as what Diesel to run, in my opinion the single most important factor is that the fuel is fresh. You want to get the fuel from a station with a lot of turnover/use. There are few additives to diesel (other than some kerosene in the winter blend to keep it flowing when cold) thus one brand over another because of a better additive package, as with gasoline, really does not apply. Fresh fuel will be more seasonally accurate, less likely to have water from condensation or other contaminants. Higher Cetane (equivalent to octane in gasoline) will give more power and MPG, but I have not found any station that will guarantee better than the government mandated 40. For a fresh fuel example there is a top tier station near me, but only has one diesel pump on the side, usually blocked by parked cars. I've never seen it used. Their diesel fuel is probably years old. Then there is a no name fuel oil dealer also near me, new above ground fuel tanks, that has 1-2 tractor trailers filling up at any one time. I gladly get my diesel there (they have a diesel bay for cars with the smaller diesel nozzle). Their fuel will usually be a few days old. I also notice I get slightly better MPG when filling up there.

Without question the engine will be good for well over 200K miles, as is almost any BMW engine. If you are reading these boards you know the issues are all around the emission control systems. Do not fear carbon build up (which happens on direct injection gasoline engines too). If it happens, BMW has a good handle on how to clean it, not nearly the wallet breaker that say a transmission issue would be.

Not that it really means anything, my wife loves the diesel, even with CBU, it's the best car we've ever owned, so far (72K miles). But I feel the days of the diesel for cars may be numbered. Oldsmobile killed off interest in diesel in the 80's (trying to convert a gasoline engine to be a diesel engine rather than redesign from scratch was a BIG mistake). Now with the VW fiasco, I feel interest in car diesels will soon die off again. Thanks VW...


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## MotoWPK (Oct 5, 2012)

KeithS said:


> There are few additives to diesel (other than some kerosene in the winter blend to keep it flowing when cold) thus one brand over another because of a better additive package, as with gasoline, really does not apply.


Actually there are several additives to diesel fuel important to the health of the fuel system and engine, including; lubricity additives, anti-corrosion additives, anti-fungal additives and, during winter, anti-gel additives.

Kerosene has not generally been used in winter blends for a while now because it has the undesirable effect of reducing lubricity. Contemporary anti-gel additives typically disperses water to prevent freezing in the filter and lines and prevent the formation of wax crystals.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

From my 2012 X5 Owner's Manual


> To ensure that the diesel engine remains operational in the winter, use winter diesel. It is available at gas stations during winter months. The standard fuel filter heating prevents the supply of fuel from stalling during driving.
> 
> No diesel additives. Do not add additives, including gasoline; otherwise, engine damage may occur.***9664;


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

The use of stations with high turnover is a good idea, but the additive mix that is unique to each fuel brand is very important. Additives are put in mostly at the terminal since they are not allowed in the pipeline from fear of cross-contamination, since all sorts of fuel is transported the same way.

Brand name stations probably get better quality control, as marketing is very important for the major brands, off brands not so much. 

Too bad we can't get labeling of cetane like we get for octane. It would make driving a BMW diesel easier as BMW recommends 51 cetane for the 335d.

PL


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

notanaudi said:


> ...
> Did I make a mistake by getting a new diesel
> 
> Once received what is the best diesel to run I live in MA and the pumps say low sulfur
> ...


No. Everyone I've talked to that has an X5d says they're great.

Mass. is a CA Emissions state. Warranty on emissions stuff runs to 7/70K, and the diesel is better - usually runs around cetane 51 (not really, but effectively). All diesel for road-going vehicles is ultra-low-sulfur 15 ppm, just don't put tractor/farm/off-road diesel in.

Don't baby it, don't drive a lot of city.

5-7K oil changes are a waste; most people are 7.5K-10K. Many people are going CBS, around 13K with no problems. There's a thread of us over 100K; my 335d uses zero oil and I'm trying to figure out what to do as far as maintenance to get to 200K. Not sure on what to do to emissions systems - strip out and tune, or replace as needed (NOx sensors and SCR Catalyst are essentially done with their lifetime at that mileage.)


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

I don't think you're making a mistake. I've had my 2012 X5d for 2.5 years now and it's been great. Bought it with 10k miles, now at 48k and no issues to date. I am going to be out of warranty in about a month and several people on the X5 forum would tell you never to own one out of warranty. That being said, based on 19 years and somewhere 800k miles driving BMW's I'm not worried. I know that things will require injections of cash periodically, but by staying informed on forums such as this one, doing some of the easy work myself, and working with a knowledgeable and trustworthy independent shop makes it relatively pain free. I plan on taking the X5 to 150-200k miles. I know I'll make 150 if my driving pattern sticks, but I might be ready for another before it reaches 200. If anything happens to prematurely force me into a replacement, I would get a new X5d or a 535d - although honestly an Alpina B6 would be my dream car and if I find a nice CPO one then emotion may take over rationale.

Back to reality... I do believe in maintaining them and I am not a fan of the BMW maintenance schedule. Here is my rough schedule:
- Oil change every 7,500 miles
- Differentials and transfer case fluids and fuel filter every 35,000 miles
- Trans fluid and belts every 70k miles
- Brake fluid, air and pollen filters every two years
- Coolant every 4 years

If you want an in depth discussion on BMW maintenance, Google "Mike Miller's lifetime BMW maintenance" or similar and read his white paper. Based on above I don't follow it to the letter, but I believe a lot of what he advocates is spot on.


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## notanaudi (Feb 15, 2012)

That is very close to how I maintained my325i and I have 260k miles and still running strong

Thanks for the feed back


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Ahh, I missed the part about your 2006 325i. So you survived the past ten years with no dipstick, no spare, and your car still has not imploded after over a quarter million miles with sensible maintenance?? Love it. I would add that the difference in maintaining a diesel vs gasser is you will not have spark plug changes, but you need to change the fuel filter more regularly. What I provided was diesel schedule.
Let us know when you take delivery of the X5.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I'm at 100k with a 2010 335D and have followed the BMW Service Manual to the letter, as they have done it all under the extended maintenance and warranty.

I had my oil tested multiple times to prove the point that the 13k OCI was just fine. All of the important qualities of the oil stayed in range during that interval. Monitor oil level and top off as required. My car uses about 1 quart at the mid point, 6k-7k miles.

I think one key is to purchase your fuel from a single reliable source. I always buy at the same location so if anything should go wrong with fuel quality I am sure I will know where I got it from. I've never had fuel filter issues and I don't think it was changed but at every 3rd interval so some 45k miles.

The other is a diesel engine really likes to be run loaded. I commute about 36 miles each way and it is about 60/40 hwy and city with bumper to bumper traffic included but with some good open stretches where I can go 70mph+. The MPG on the diesel dies in traffic. Just the way it is. And at low load can soot up more.

I closely monitor my MPG and log it religiously on Fuelly.com. MPG will be a good indicator when something is going wrong.

I'm loving the BMW Diesel and truly hope it will last to 200k miles without much fanfare or $$$.

I would really like to get an X5D but currently have a MB GL350 Bluetec, which is a fantastic road trip vehicle, and had the room we needed. Haven't had a blip so far with that car but it is expensive to service and you pay as you go unlike BMW.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

I think you'll love the car. For all it's worth, there's an article in the most recent BMWCCA magazine about there being a production issue for US market diesel BMWs that caused a delay in shipments during December, but that should be cleared up and catching up on ordered cars in early January. The article said that BMW made a small change that for some reason required recertification by the EPA (which is being understandably picky in light of recent revelations by "that other" German automaker).

In any case, Everyone I've talked to or heard about here who has an X5d has loved the car. I know I do. As others have said, pay attention to buy only street-legal diesel, and to never tank-up on auto-pilot so you are sure only diesel, never gasoline, goes in the tank, and maintain the car well. Happy motoring and welcome to the 'fest!


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## ExGMan (Jan 25, 2005)

*Boston Diesel Experience*

I have been running a 2015 535d X-Drive for a year in Boston. Cost of fuel has been dropping steadily during the year I've had the car. I try to use so-called "Top Tier" stations for fuel (BP and Shell mostly). I also try to follow the experience of others on this forum which is to use stations which have a lot of traffic.

I am inside Rt128 in the Newton/Brookline area. Prices are now down to $1.99/gallon in that area. If you're up north on US1 (Saugus, etc.) they may be cheaper. They're a lot cheaper in NH, but maybe the fuel composition (not being in MA) is not as good. I dunno.

You'll find the X5 diesel to be tractable, powerful (especially in "Sport" mode) and very economical in terms of fuel usage. You may want to consider carrying gloves to don when you fill up your tank at a self-serve station. I've found that heavily-used diesel pumps have a lot of diesel fuel residue left around, and gloves will keep that off your hands. You'll know you'll need them the first time you fill up, get in the car and the wife or kids say: "Eww! What's that smell?"

It should be fun. Please join the BMW CCA if you're not already a member. Lots of benefits there.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

To the OP: did you get it? Pictures?


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## notanaudi (Feb 15, 2012)

Guys my new X5d started production yesterday 1/8/16 at 10:32am it's a girl!!!!

Thanks so much
now I need to learn to code and maybe down the road a Tune!!!

I know there are different threads for those things and plan on doing some reading up on them.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

_I Love You, You're Perfect, Now Change_ is a comedy, maybe a comedy of errors.


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## notanaudi (Feb 15, 2012)

Very true I will spend time with her for a while before I start to play with it


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## notanaudi (Feb 15, 2012)

Great news my PCD is scheduled for 2/11


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

notanaudi said:


> Great news my PCD is scheduled for 2/11


Rank Abbr.	Meaning	
PCD	*****cat Dolls (band)	
PCD	Programmed Cell Death	
PCD	Polycrystalline Diamond	
PCD	Pollution Control Department (Thailand)	
PCD	PhotoCD (Kodak file extension)	
PCD	Printed Circuit Design	
PCD	Primary Ciliary Dyskinesia	
PCD	Policy Coherence for Development (European Union)	
PCD	Pitch Circle Diameter	
PCD	Plataformas de Coleta de Dados (Portugese: Data Collection Platform, Brazil)	
PCD	Party for Democratic Convergence (Cape Verde)	
PCD	Paraneoplastic Cerebellar Degeneration	
PCD	Partnership for Child Development	
PCD	Performance-Centered Design	
PCD	Proximity Coupling Device	
PCD	Process Challenge Device	
PCD	Partida Cristiandemocratica Dalla Svizra (Christian Democratic Party of Switzerland)	
PCD	Personal Communication Device	
PCD	Pueblo Chemical Depot (Pueblo, Colorado)	
PCD	Plans Communaux de Développement (French: Municipal Development Plan; Morocco)	
PCD	Portal Content Directory (SAP)	
PCD	Panoramic Cockpit Display	
PCD	Partido del Centro Democrático (México)	
PCD	Portable Computing Device	
PCD	Premature Centromere Division (aka Premature Chromatid Separation)	
PCD	Pollution Control Device	
PCD	Page Cache Disable	
PCD	Power Control Device	
PCD	People-Centered Development Forum	
PCD	People Centered Development	
PCD	Peace, Conflict and Development (program, Canada)	
PCD	Process Control Device	
PCD	Personal Computing Device	
PCD	Pre-Commissioning Detachment	
PCD	Payload Correction Data	
PCD	Photon Counting Detector	
PCD	Participatory Community Development 
PCD	Product Configuration Documentation	
PCD	Procurement Code	
PCD	Project Control Document	
PCD	Plasma-Coupled-Device	
PCD	POSIX Conformance Document	
PCD	Psittacine Circoviral Disease (aka Beak and Feather Disease)	
PCD	Project Commitment Document	
PCD	Premature Chromatid Separation (aka Premature Centromere Division)	
PCD	Post Concert Depression	
PCD	Pacer Cardioverter Defibrillator	
PCD	Prairie du Chien, Wisconsin (Airport Code)	
PCD	Process Control Daemon (Linux system level process manager)	
PCD	Private Client Division	
PCD	Preconstructed Deck (tradable card games)	
PCD	Program Control Document	
PCD	Product Concept Document	
PCD	Post-Convention Depression	
PCD	Perfect Crystal Diffractometer	
PCD	Pacific Car Demurrage Bureau	
PCD	Photoconductive Device	
PCD	Pacific Communications Division	
PCD	Personal Compact Disc	
PCD	Polar Cap Disturbance	
PCD	Pitched Circle Diameter	
PCD	Postpartum Certified Doula	
PCD	Post Camp Depression	
PCD	Preliminary Coordination Draft	
PCD	Price Control Department (Vietnam)	
PCD	Probable Cause of Death	
PCD	Program Commitment Document (NASA)	
PCD	Plutonium Concentrator Distillate	
PCD	Post Chow Dip (USMC)	
PCD	Precision Course Director	
PCD	Passive Crystal Detector	
PCD	Production Control Desk	
PCD	Preliminary Conceptual Design	
PCD	Process Control Documentation	
PCD	Pseudo-Coherent Detection	
PCD	Publication Change Directive	
PCD	Phase-Center Displacement	
PCD	Platform Compatibility Demonstration	
PCD	Physical & Cyber Domains (TRADOC)	
PCD	Presidential Communication Directorate (US State Department and Russian government correspondence)	
PCD	Program Change Decision/Division	
PCD	Problem Categories Description	
PCD	Post-Coachella Depression (music festival slang)	
PCD	Platform Components Division	
PCD	People's Commissariat of Defense (Russia)	
PCD	Process Chemistry Development	
PCD	Production Control Department	
PCD	Professional Certificate in Development	
PCD	Professions Complementary to Dentistry	
PCD	Production Cutoff Date	
PCD	Protocol Converter Device	
PCD	Provincial Communications Department	
PCD	Project Control Department	
PCD	Primary Care Dentist	
PCD	Pulsed Corona Discharge	
PCD	Perfumes, Cosmetics & Design (conference)	
PCD	Personal Care Division (various companies)	
PCD	Photochemical Darkening	
PCD	Personal Computer Division (various companies)	
PCD	Personal Content Delivery	
PCD	Package Configuration Descriptor (computing)	
PCD	Panama City Division (US Navy)	
PCD	Partial Consent Decree	
PCD	Partnership for Community Development (various locations)	
PCD	Passive Case Detection (healthcare)	
PCD	Planned Community Developers (Sugar Land, TX)	
PCD	Portfolio Committee on Defence (South Africa)	
PCD	Price Calculation Date (shipping)

Note: We have 250 other definitions for PCD in our Acronym Attic

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PCCTV
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PCDAI
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PCDB
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:dunno:


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## Nulevel (Sep 3, 2015)

Congrats on the 02/11 delivery date. 

I'll just pretty much echo what others have said: the X5D is a great vehicle. I have a 2012 X35D and I've had zero issues with diesel--other than the occasional smelly residue on my hands after filling--and also the occasional antiquated pump, which prevents me from inserting the nozzle into the fuel tank.

My X5D has grit, power, superb highway fuel efficiency and performance, and not-bad city highway MPG, either (for a mid-sized SUV anyway).


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## Nulevel (Sep 3, 2015)

floydarogers said:


> don't drive a lot of city.


Why not?


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Nulevel said:


> Why not?


(1) gassers are a better choice; diesels are better highway cruisers.
(2) stop 'n' go promotes carbon buildup.
(3) cuts fuel mileage.


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## temporaptor (Mar 21, 2015)

Performance Center Delivery?


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## Nulevel (Sep 3, 2015)

Michael47 said:


> (1) gassers are a better choice; diesels are better highway cruisers.
> (2) stop 'n' go promotes carbon buildup.
> (3) cuts fuel mileage.


I know nothing about carbon buildup...haven't had any problems so far and I've been driving my X5D 50 miles per day, round trip, 5 days per week. No carbon issues that I know of.

From what I've read, diesel is 30% more efficient versus gasoline, and in my daily city-driving experience, that's held true. I get about 30% more fuel economy on my diesel versus gasoline...and that's including city driving.

Highway driving? I could go about 600 miles on one tank.

Not sure why folks think diesel is not good for city. I find that it's more fuel efficient regardless of city or highway driving.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

There are a lot of "true-isms" akin to dualistic thinking out there, and the online diesel community has plenty of them.

Agree that diesel, especially in heavier vehicles, is the clear choice whether city or highway for a variety of reasons.

What does seem to be true, is that available engine combinations seem to favor diesel for highway and hybrid/gasoline for city. My wife's CT200h gets 50 mpg in the city, while highway fuel economy is a bit closer between my car and hers.

PL


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Pierre nails it here.

I included the "little city driving" comment because of one of the "truisms": that CBU is avoided by running the diesels as they are "intended" to run - at constant load and rpm. No one really knows, as BMW has some of the information (prevalence and which car) and the owners have the other (how they drive). SA's seem to believe that prolonged city driving results in CBU, but that's a very unscientific conclusion.

It's kind of like the advice from WHO on cell phone usage: "well, we don't know that it's carcinogenic, but avoid it anyway."

BTW, my wife's 328xd is sitting at 39.6 mpg (long term) in a regime that is about 50/50 city/highway. So yeah they get better mileage than similar gas engined cars; too bad there aren't any diesel hybrids.


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## John Galt (Jul 21, 2012)

floydarogers said:


> Pierre nails it here.
> 
> I included the "little city driving" comment because of one of the "truisms": that CBU is avoided by running the diesels as they are "intended" to run - at constant load and rpm. No one really knows, as BMW has some of the information (prevalence and which car) and the owners have the other (how they drive). SA's seem to believe that prolonged city driving results in CBU, but that's a very unscientific conclusion.


This seems to be the common logic, however I have direct personal experience that running your diesel at constant load and RPM makes NO difference on the threat of CBU. My 2014 X5 35d developed CBU at 46,XXX miles. I drive 50,000+ miles per year and spend over 90% of those miles on the highway. I ran my vehicle hard when needed, ensured I used top-tier stations, and none of that mattered.

What does matter, and what information I received directly back from BMW NA is that running diesel in our vehicles that contains greater than 5% bio-diesel WILL cause CBU at some point in the life of the engine. I am unable to purchase fuel within my region that contains 5% or less bio-diesel.

I traded in my 14' and purchased the exact same vehicle new, a 2015. Another 35d. I figure I'm kicking the can down the road another 50,000 miles and hopeful that BMW NA will have a cleaning procedure figured out that will not cost $5,000-6,000 as was quoted for the severity of my CBU (still within warranty so covered), or I can find another option that offers me the power, efficiency and driving characteristics of my X5. A labor of love...

-John


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

John Galt said:


> This seems to be the common logic, however I have direct personal experience that running your diesel at constant load and RPM makes NO difference on the threat of CBU. My 2014 X5 35d developed CBU at 46,XXX miles. I drive 50,000+ miles per year and spend over 90% of those miles on the highway. I ran my vehicle hard when needed, ensured I used top-tier stations, and none of that mattered.
> 
> What does matter, and what information I received directly back from BMW NA is that running diesel in our vehicles that contains greater than 5% bio-diesel WILL cause CBU at some point in the life of the engine. I am unable to purchase fuel within my region that contains 5% or less bio-diesel.
> 
> ...


My '10 335d has 104K miles, has run on WA State 5% biodiesel since new, runs a 60/40 highway/city mix, does not have any symptoms of CBU. Kind of balances out your story... Oh, yes, part of the "narrative" on CBU is that X5d has less chance of CBU than 335d, due to larger and heavier car putting more load on engine.


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## John Galt (Jul 21, 2012)

floydarogers said:


> My '10 335d has 104K miles, has run on WA State 5% biodiesel since new, runs a 60/40 highway/city mix, does not have any symptoms of CBU. Kind of balances out your story... Oh, yes, part of the "narrative" on CBU is that X5d has less chance of CBU than 335d, due to larger and heavier car putting more load on engine.


Key here is you've run your car on a max percent of 5% bio-diesel whereas I am unable to find (in nearly all of my region) diesel with anything near 5%. Most is 10-15% and potentially upwards of 20%. Interestingly my E70 35d had the same number of miles on it as my 2014 F15 35d (few thousand more actually) and exhibited no CBU symptoms.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Overall, I think it is pretty clear that nobody really knows why some vehicles develop CBU and some do not. I think it also clear that BMW doesn't know either, because I'd bet they'd build 'em to get rid of the problem entirely if they did know. There are lots of theories. City driving. High biodiesel concentrations. Too little full-throttle operation. Query enough people, I'll bet somebody will relate it to phase of the moon or driver's zodiac sign.

My 2012 X5 35d was purchased used with 32,000 miles on the ticker (and we clearly have no clue how the original purchaser used it). We've added another 20,000 miles, mostly highway and mostly towing a 5,000 lb travel trailer, with no signs of CBU. I wish I could say the same about our 2001 Jetta TDI, which developed a bad case of CBU around 150,000 miles. So one thing that is clear is that CBU is not a BMW-specific problem.


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## jfxogara (Oct 26, 2012)

Michael47 said:


> Overall, I think it is pretty clear that nobody really knows why some vehicles develop CBU and some do not.


Yes!


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