# Solstice will sticker for $19,995 incl dest.



## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2005/02/the_promise_of.html#more



Bob Lutz said:


> When Solstice goes on sale this summer, it will, officially, be priced at $19,995 - and that includes the $575 destination charge. You heard it here first.
> 
> That's not for a stripped down model, either. That sub-$20,000 price gets you 177 horsepower mated to a five-speed manual transmission, 18-inch wheels, 4-wheel disc brakes, glass rear window, and a CD-player as standard equipment.


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

Wow. If they can build a trouble free car that the dealers won't gouge the crap out of they could have a hit. It will be interesting to see the production ones when they come out.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

...but will they make a penny off of it? The Big Three have always said that they can't make money off small cars. If GM is selling this at a loss to build some market share, and after piling on the usual GM incentives, the better this car does, the more money they're going to lose.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Kaz said:


> ...but will they make a penny off of it? The Big Three have always said that they can't make money off small cars. If GM is selling this at a loss to build some market share, and after piling on the usual GM incentives, the better this car does, the more money they're going to lose.


The Saturn Sky is much better looking, but both cars will bring a lot of people into dealerships. The guy is like "honey, look at this hot roadster!" and she's like "Put a sock in it, dear, let's go check out that minivan."


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Kaz said:


> ...but will they make a penny off of it? The Big Three have always said that they can't make money off small cars. If GM is selling this at a loss to build some market share, and after piling on the usual GM incentives, the better this car does, the more money they're going to lose.


 As I recall, much of the anti-small car arguments from GM predate the Lutz era, were based on cars that were hard to sell (mostly because they were so awful) and thus didn't meet sales projections. With the introduction of the Solstice, Lutz' vision of GM is beginning to become a reality. Almost since the start, Lutz has been evangalizing the merits of low production cars for niche markets (that will presumably be popular). A lot of the technology of the Kappa platform comes from what they learned with the C5 program and the platform will eventually underpin several cars which (hopefully) will give them a better return on their development and tooling/production costs with (again, hopefully) greater volume from the single platform.

Regarding incentives, what comes to mind is the age old retailer trick of raising prices for a very brief period (sometimes less than a day) just before the start of a heavily promoted sale. 50% off sounds great...until you realized that prices were artifically inflated by 100% the day before the sale started. I just can't believe that the big three have brought ANY new model to market in the past 15 years without immediate or eventual/planned incentives factoring into the initial MSRP.

:dunno:


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

·clyde· said:


> I just can't believe that the big three have brought ANY new model to market in the past 15 years without immediate or eventual/planned incentives factoring into the initial MSRP.


GM has the other nasty trick - decontenting; I saw this with the Chevy Avalanche. The first year they will keep the price reasonable. The second year the price may remain the same, but they remove a few things (for example the underhood lamp was gone, and the towing package became optional in the 2nd year Avalanches.) After that they start inching the price and decontenting further to increase the profit spread. I'm curious to see what will happen with this model.


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Well, considering the fact that the Solstice is pretty made up of stuff from the GM parts bin, I don't think there'll be a lot of development cost to recoup. The price is right and there really isn't any other sub-$20k roadster out there. I think it'll be a huge hit.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

cantona7 said:


> Well, considering the fact that the Solstice is pretty made up of stuff from the GM parts bin, I don't think there'll be a lot of development cost to recoup. The price is right and there really isn't any other sub-$20k roadster out there. I think it'll be a huge hit.


I wouldn't say huge hit because the market for a roadster in general is limited by the lack of a back seat. The rear seat of my 330Ci isn't huge, but I do use it for passengers on occasion.


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

cwsqbm said:


> I wouldn't say huge hit because the market for a roadster in general is limited by the lack of a back seat. The rear seat of my 330Ci isn't huge, but I do use it for passengers on occasion.


 True. But at that price, I think we'll see lots of mid-life crisis buyers who don't want to spend a lot of money for a summer car. I see pretty much the same type of buyers that made the Miata so popular.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

cantona7 said:


> Well, considering the fact that the Solstice is pretty made up of stuff from the GM parts bin, I don't think there'll be a lot of development cost to recoup. The price is right and there really isn't any other sub-$20k roadster out there. I think it'll be a huge hit.


I haven't really been following this model, but I assume, at this price, it's the plebian parts bin.....

Ed


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

cantona7 said:


> True. But at that price, I think we'll see lots of mid-life crisis buyers who don't want to spend a lot of money for a summer car. I see pretty much the same type of buyers that made the Miata so popular.


I think there is a lot more competition for the sports car buyer's dollar these days.

Also, original Miata was a very fresh design, even it was IIRC meant as a clone of a Lotus Elan.

Finally, maybe the Miata sold in large volumes by Mazda's standards, but I wonder what GM's expectations are. The last year of the Fiero, by far its worst year, GM sold more than most years of the Miata. Fiero totals were 370,000 in five years, verses the Miata at 325,000 in 1990 thru 2004.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

How many units do they have to sell for it o be a hit? How few for it to be a failure? Do some :google: and you should find a bunch of articles over the past year indicating that GM is shooting for annual sales of about 25k+/- and all along were hoping for a starting price under $20k.

I don't know how the Solstice drives or what kind of quality level it achieves, but GM today is not the same GM of the 80s. Even if you (general "you") don't care for the new cars they are producing, you are going to benefit eventually. GM, Ford, Chrysler...they're all raising their bars across the board. Everyone else is going to have to do the same. We all will benefit.


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

·clyde· said:


> How many units do they have to sell for it o be a hit? How few for it to be a failure? Do some :google: and you should find a bunch of articles over the past year indicating that GM is shooting for annual sales of about 25k+/- and all along were hoping for a starting price under $20k.
> 
> I don't know how the Solstice drives or what kind of quality level it achieves, but GM today is not the same GM of the 80s. Even if you (general "you") don't care for the new cars they are producing, you are going to benefit eventually. GM, Ford, Chrysler...they're all raising their bars across the board. Everyone else is going to have to do the same. We all will benefit.


If the car turns popular like the CTS, there's a good chance they'll blow their projections through the roof. GM has definitely been moving in the right direction. It may take a while for the numbers to catch up to the vision but it's track so far.

I can see my future driveway now....

Saab 9-5 Aero and Solstice for the wife. STS-V and XLR for me. And a G6 for my teenager. :yikes:


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

jw said:


> If the car turns popular like the CTS, there's a good chance they'll blow their projections through the roof. GM has definitely been moving in the right direction. It may take a while for the numbers to catch up to the vision but it's track so far.


After years and years, it does seem like GM is on the right track...and it started before Lutz came on board. The next big thing coming from them should be the F Body replacement (will the cars actually be called Camaros and Firebirds/Trans Ams? :dunno: ). If they get that right, there should be big hope for the future. They still need quality plebian sedans. I don't think that the LaCrosse and G6 are quite going to do it, though...


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

·clyde· said:


> After years and years, it does seem like GM is on the right track...and it started before Lutz came on board. The next big thing coming from them should be the F Body replacement (will the cars actually be called Camaros and Firebirds/Trans Ams? :dunno: ). If they get that right, there should be big hope for the future. They still need quality plebian sedans. I don't think that the LaCrosse and G6 are quite going to do it, though...


I have heard that GM is very disappointed with the sales of the G6.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

For not much more you can buy a used Boxster.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I think there is a nice market for an under $20K roadster.

It may be, "Honey put a sock in it, let's look at mini vans." But at the price, there will be a return trip for the roadster as a fun second car or third car. Or even a two car purchase, "What kind of deal can you make us on a mini van AND the Solstice?"

For many people the roadster is their fun car, adn keeping the price reasonable makes that a real possibility. Heck even in the Z3 world, many are second, thrid or fourth cars. Hence the idiocy of the Z4 trunk to carry two golf bags. If you want to go golfing, you take a real car. 

And there is not real competition between new and used for many people.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

EdCT said:


> I haven't really been following this model, but I assume, at this price, it's the plebian parts bin.....
> 
> Ed


Looks like I was wrong, the chassis is purpose-built just for this model, apparently it'll be quite rigid and it'll spawn a number of sporty, independently sprung rear drive models.

It's wider in track than either the S2000 or the Miata, its wheel base is marginally longer, yet the car's a wee bit shorter.

It's beautiful, I think, with its classic roadster seat backs that flare off into the bodywork. Also, the roof is completely hidden in the large clamshell trunk.

The only question is its weight ( 400lbs heavier than the Miata, not sure about the S2000) and its Ecotech 170 hp engine.

Will it be a quality piece? I hope so, america could use a cool home-grown roadster.

Ed


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

EdCT said:


> Looks like I was wrong, the chassis is purpose-built just for this model, apparently it'll be quite rigid and it'll spawn a number of sporty, independently sprung rear drive models.
> 
> It's wider in track than either the S2000 or the Miata, its wheel base is marginally longer, yet the car's a wee bit shorter.
> 
> ...


I believe the chassis is shared with the Saturn Sky, which will debut later. I have also heard a rumor of a 255Hp turbocharged model bowing later too.


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

http://www.saturn.com/sky


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

330Cane said:


> http://www.saturn.com/sky


I was looking at the chassis in those underside pics, looks like dual pivot control arms front AND rear, no cost cutting there.

Also, in specs, they claim Bilstein shocks and a "long arm/short arm" suspension; sounds like double wishbones to me (or at least a dual a arm arrangement).

I think I like the looks of Saturn's version a little better.

Ed


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I like the looks of the Sky. I'd definitely consider it, if they'd sell it in Europe.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

The Sky looks like a baby Vette.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

I was appalled by the poor quality of the Sky at the NY Auto Show. Up close it looks like a POS GM rental car, huge panel gaps, lousy paint. I liked it til I saw it up close, it looks really cheap.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

330Cane said:


> http://www.saturn.com/sky


Trust me guys, it looks great in pictures, but up close it looks like it has the build quality of a Geo Metro. very disappointing.


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> Trust me guys, it looks great in pictures, but up close it looks like it has the build quality of a Geo Metro. very disappointing.


I beleive you. I never said I would buy one, just that I liked it better than the Solstice.


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

While I agree GM has been getting better, they were so far behind to begin with, they still have a long way to go before they're at the level of the better Japanese and European competitors, much less be "raising the bar" for the others.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Dawg90 said:


> Trust me guys, it looks great in pictures, but up close it looks like it has the build quality of a Geo Metro. very disappointing.


 Were you looking at a production version? Regardless of who makes whatever car it might be, I would never judge build quality from a pre-production copy (for good or ill). :dunno:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

This car is on my current list for my May 06 replacement of the 330i. 

I really like the looks but two big things trouble me:

1. It's American (yeah, I'm sure they build good cars, I've just never seen such a thing - ever).

2. It's heavy for such a small engine. I need the replacement in May of 06, so it's unlikely the high powered turbo version will be out.

Others on my short list (as of now)... 

Miata (06's are brand new and my family has incredible luck with Miatas).
330i (the larger size is really turning me off)
S2000 (old design but still hot car)
Z4 3.0 (hard to swallow over 40k for a roadster though)
Mazdaspeed6 ( heavy but could be fun)
IS350 (lack of manual will most likely kill this one for me)
Sky (same concerns as solstice)
A3 (ideally with the v6)

Wish BMW made a small, quick sedan or convertible...


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Z4 3.0 (hard to swallow over 40k for a roadster though)
> 
> Wish BMW made a small, quick sedan or convertible...


I believe, in 06, it is possible that the Z4's will switch over to the new I6's. That would mean you could go with the 2.5i and get similar power to the current 3.0i.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

330Cane said:


> I believe, in 06, it is possible that the Z4's will switch over to the new I6's. That would mean you could go with the 2.5i and get similar power to the current 3.0i.


considering my 330i ZHP feels underpowered vis-a-vis the power-to-weight ratio, I don't think i could handle the 2.5. If the car costs over 30k it better snap my neck.


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> considering my 330i ZHP feels underpowered vis-a-vis the power-to-weight ratio, I don't think i could handle the 2.5. If the car costs over 30k it better snap my neck.


Yeah, but the Z4 is also almost 500 pounds lighter than the 330, and will have 215hp. Just a though. :dunno:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

330Cane said:


> Yeah, but the Z4 is also almost 500 pounds lighter than the 330, and will have 215hp. Just a though. :dunno:


could make a difference. thanks for the suggestion! :thumbup: modding the lower level engine might not be too bad either. i really don't want to lose that feel bmw's have but I'm just not sold on the e90 330i right now.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

·clyde· said:


> Were you looking at a production version? Regardless of who makes whatever car it might be, I would never judge build quality from a pre-production copy (for good or ill). :dunno:


I suppose so yeah, but then it's not like GM production cars look any higher quality.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> This car is on my current list for my May 06 replacement of the 330i.
> 
> I really like the looks but two big things trouble me:
> 
> ...


By May 2006, we might be able to buy a:

130i, IS350 manual (more like Sept 2006), 5 door GTI - which will likely be sportier than the A3, and cheaper.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> By May 2006, we might be able to buy a:
> 
> 130i, IS350 manual (more like Sept 2006), 5 door GTI - which will likely be sportier than the A3, and cheaper.


oh man, a 130i would be the winner without me even driving it first. And the GTI is tempting mostly because I have this weird love-hate for VWs. Something about German cars...


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> oh man, a 130i would be the winner without me even driving it first. And the GTI is tempting mostly because I have this weird love-hate for VWs. Something about German cars...


Same here. And the GTI also interests me cause Euro mags like CAR and EVO, who normally diss on VWs, love the new GTI. If the GTI weren't delayed so much, I'd consider, but spring 2006 is too far to wait.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> Same here. And the GTI also interests me cause Euro mags like CAR and EVO, who normally diss on VWs, love the new GTI. If the GTI weren't delayed so much, I'd consider, but spring 2006 is too far to wait.


Went to vortex and checked out the GTI...lots of europeans have it. Nice little car. Those VeeDub turbos are fun as hell.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Went to vortex and checked out the GTI...lots of europeans have it. Nice little car. Those VeeDub turbos are fun as hell.


If you want to see what it's like, go drive the A3 - I drove it this weekend, very nice car. My girlfriend now wants one.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> If you want to see what it's like, go drive the A3 - I drove it this weekend, very nice car. My girlfriend now wants one.


they're out already?! I'll do that as soon as possible.


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