# 328d drivers - who manually shifts the 8-speed?



## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

Does anyone with a diesel regularly shift their car manually or do you just let the ZF do its own thing? With the diesel's low and probably narrow power band I'm just wondering if you run out of grunt too quickly? It's not like you're gonna rev one of these to 7000rpm. Or do you? I'm probably being way too conservative in my driving style.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

I hardly ever do. Haven't seen much need to.


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

I did it once, just to say I did, that was it.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

Just to expand, I used to love shifting my old MT Subaru through steep mountain curvy roads. Then I tried to do that with my paddle shifters on the ZF and it is so completely different that I was unable to manage it and not much fun. I think I could learn to do it right, it is more an operator issue, but that will take time and effort and still not have the same emotion of managing a clutch, so I won't bother. The ZF on its own does really well. 
The only other times it is useful for me is on the rare occasion I am going 80 mph and want to pass a car going 79 mph or for the occasional feeling of additional acceleration just for fun.


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## ND40oz (Oct 6, 2009)

The only time I do it is on mountain descents, the auto doesn't seem to like to engine brake without a little prodding.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

A ZF with paddles but without the engine control circuitry - dipping the power for milliseconds to shift - is lipstick on a pig. Drive a proper DSG; put your foot in it and hold it, shifting all the way to red-line in top gear.

Ever drive an old hot Camaro and do the dollar-bill trick. Put a bill on the dash and tell the passenger they can have it if they can get to it - then push 'em back in their seat. DSG will do that and not ruin the drivetrain.


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

I do, only because I prefer to drive the wagon in sport mode, and do not like the behavior of the transmission when in sport mode (e.g. keeping it in a lower gear, higher revs). Manual mode + Sport mode = casual driving with a firm response on the throttle. I'm also accustomed to doing so in my previous car (Z4), which had the DCT.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

When I am more worried about fun than actual speed, which inn the 328d you should be all the time anyway since it isn't really fast by any means, I do sometimes.

I shift right at 4k rpm. The torque curve really drops off after 4k and for every day driving torque is where the fun is. So I keep the car between 1750 and 4k. Have those 280 torques around all the time.


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## Seppo (May 12, 2014)

I did a fair amount of self-shifting this winter in the worst snow conditions, it added to the control. Also when driving steep, curving mountain roads, which I don't seem to do enough of lately.

This is my first ever automatic, after decades and many, many miles of manual transmission driving. My previous diesels were VW TDIs with 5-sp and 6-sp manuals, it was important to drive the engine hard to keep it under load and free of carbon build-up, easy to do with a manual. This ZF 8-sp automatic drives me crazy, there is always another shift coming, next thing you know you are well above the speed limit. So periodically I try self-shifting to put some load on the engine, mostly in uphill climbs. Soon time to upshift, so this engine never seems to get a chance to clear its throat like my old diesels did.


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## Reamer (May 3, 2014)

I shift manually occasionally. Usually only on twisty mountain roads. The Sport Mode does a good job generally. Can be fun to do some shifting from time to time.


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## stevehecht (Apr 13, 2007)

Seppo said:


> I did a fair amount of self-shifting this winter in the worst snow conditions, it added to the control. Also when driving steep, curving mountain roads, which I don't seem to do enough of lately.
> 
> This is my first ever automatic, after decades and many, many miles of manual transmission driving. *My previous diesels were VW TDIs with 5-sp and 6-sp manuals, it was important to drive the engine hard to keep it under load and free of carbon build-up, easy to do with a manual. * This ZF 8-sp automatic drives me crazy, there is always another shift coming, next thing you know you are well above the speed limit. *So periodically I try self-shifting to put some load on the engine, mostly in uphill climbs. Soon time to upshift, so this engine never seems to get a chance to clear its throat like my old diesels did.*


Interesting point. This was definitely a problem for the 335d, but I wonder how relevant it is driving the much less powerful N47 in our cars. The load factor is proportionately increased just with everyday somewhat aggressive road and street driving.

I typically go to manual for quick and nasty passing maneuvers and whenever I find myself on a twisty, which around here is pretty rare.


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## MotoWPK (Oct 5, 2012)

This idea of loading the engine to reduce carbon build up is often seen, but I've yet to see an explanation of why higher loads would reduce carbon build up.

I can think of one reason why higher loads would increase CBU; higher loads increase soot in the exhaust which means a higher soot concentration in the recirculated exhaust gas.

If anyone does have an explanation why higher loads would decrease CBU, I'd sure like to hear it.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

MotoWPK said:


> ...If anyone does have an explanation why higher loads would decrease CBU, I'd sure like to hear it.


That's actually pretty easy and obvious.
Higher loads mean more demand for O2 in the combustion chamber, which means lower EGR utilization (EGR valve closing/closed), which means less exhaust soot in the intake.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

floydarogers said:


> That's actually pretty easy and obvious.
> Higher loads mean more demand for O2 in the combustion chamber, which means lower EGR utilization (EGR valve closing/closed), which means less exhaust soot in the intake.





MotoWPK said:


> This idea of loading the engine to reduce carbon build up is often seen, but I've yet to see an explanation of why higher loads would reduce carbon build up.
> 
> I can think of one reason why higher loads would increase CBU; higher loads increase soot in the exhaust which means a higher soot concentration in the recirculated exhaust gas.
> 
> If anyone does have an explanation why *higher loads would decrease CBU*, I'd sure like to hear it.


this is a well known phenomenon. google "diesel slobber" in relation to idling / operating far under rated output diesel boat/tractor engines. lower temps, lower cylinder pressures, and poor combustion lead to crap build up. engines like to do work.



stevehecht said:


> Interesting point. This was definitely a problem for the 335d, but I wonder how relevant it is driving the much less powerful N47 in our cars. The load factor is proportionately increased just with everyday somewhat aggressive road and street driving.
> 
> I typically go to manual for quick and nasty passing maneuvers and whenever I find myself on a twisty, which around here is pretty rare.





Seppo said:


> I did a fair amount of self-shifting this winter in the worst snow conditions, it added to the control. Also when driving steep, curving mountain roads, which I don't seem to do enough of lately.
> 
> This is my first ever automatic, after decades and many, many miles of manual transmission driving. My previous diesels were VW TDIs with 5-sp and 6-sp manuals, it was important to drive the engine hard to keep it under load and free of carbon build-up, easy to do with a manual. This ZF 8-sp automatic drives me crazy, there is always another shift coming, next thing you know you are well above the speed limit. So periodically I try self-shifting to put some load on the engine, mostly in uphill climbs. Soon time to upshift, so this engine never seems to get a chance to clear its throat like my old diesels did.


load on the engine exists regardless of what gear you're in. same work being done, yada yada...

chiming in for a family member that owns a 328dxT: auto/sport mode for driving, manual mode for mountainous areas (e.g. going down hills). I drove it and can instantly see why. if it were a 6 cyl diesel, i'd probably do more "riding the torque".


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