# KBB vs Manheim - is the difference significant?



## Donjhen (May 31, 2004)

Is there any correlation in KBB wholesale prices and Manheim prices? Is KBB semi accurate, always wrong, or ok?

Thanks.


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## Weaselboy (Jul 7, 2002)

From what others with access to Manheim have posted, KBB is often high. Up to a couple thousand high on a late model BMW.


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## e30_for_life (Mar 6, 2009)

I personally found that edmunds.com trade-in prices are within hundreds of the Manheim so it's a ballpark reference you can use.


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## ant369 (May 2, 2008)

I find edmunds to have high trade in values and average private party values. KBB is all over the place depending on the car, I have seen trade in values that are 3k lower than what they are getting at Manheim and vice versa.


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## z06bigbird (Aug 25, 2008)

As Sergeant Joe Friday used to say: These are the guidelines, m'am.


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

Manheim is rock bottom and if you are trading your car in expect to get Manheim or close to it. You can kiss KBB and Edmunds goodbye, most likely they won't come close to those prices unless its a car that is hot at the time.


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## BMWJockey (Feb 5, 2009)

The used car marketplace (like almost all marketplaces) is a fluid, ofttimes fickle thing. Car values change so quickly and for a myriad of reasons. A poor woman died in a fiery explosion when her Pinto wagon was rear ended. Instantly, Pintos were $50 cars. 1979: Gas hits $1.00. Chrysler Cordobas appear en masse at every Toyota and Datsun store looking to be traded (and Ricardo Montolban sold a LOT of Cordobas). Result: Low blue book divided by 2, subtract a grand (less recon, of course, and if it's not an "off" color). Last year when gas hit $4.00, big SUVs- which "were must" have fashion- suffered when the used car marketplace was quickly oversaturated after the panic. Recalls, color preferences, factory to dealer incentives, even political sentiments can and do affect used car values. They change very quickly, and on occasion can even reverse themselves. The Blue Book being published every two months can't possibly keep up. (every 6 months if the car's older)










Notice that the Kelley Blue Book has the word Guide right on it.

Edmunds.com is a great automobile website- a supersite, if you will. Still, though their used car value estimates are generally closer, they aren't infallible, and keeping everything current on there is a Herculean task. As little as you'd like to, take edmunds' trade in number and compare it to some advertised used cars at dealers (non-certified cars). Use the lowest number you can find and subtract about $2,000. Prepare yourself mentally if you can. The real world (especially in this recession) can be a rather ugly place. 

The Manheim numbers most accurately reflect what's happening. With the advent of the internet, dealers can monitor half a dozen Manheim auto auctions simultaeneously and in real time. "You say you're trading your uh... Altima? Well, okay. Oops. Enterprise just dumped 4,150 Altimas from their fleet. That hurts..." :dunno:

....and don't forget: *EVERYTHING'S ALWAYS LESS RECONDITIONING!!*


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

Take the Manheim value, subtract 1k from the below average range and you will get the ballpark that a dealer would be willing to offer for your car.


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

Donjhen said:


> Is there any correlation in KBB wholesale prices and Manheim prices? Is KBB semi accurate, always wrong, or ok?
> 
> Thanks.


Car dealers are trying to make money. If you trade a car for a new one the used car manager is buying your car. He ( or she ) wants to be sure they can get out in an auction if necessary so they will look at low Manheim and subtract something for safety like Arkady said. The new car guy may subtract something from that number so he can give you the great deal on the new car that everyone wants. Various used car price guides really have little to do with realty. Anyone with a trade should at least get a quote from Carmax so they have 2 bids.


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## WHITEX (Jan 29, 2006)

BMWJockey said:


> The used car marketplace (like almost all marketplaces) is a fluid, ofttimes fickle thing. Car values change so quickly and for a myriad of reasons.


I'm trying to trade a highly modded Rubicon. This Jeep is beautiful and outfitted. The dealer replies are...we can't sell....don't want a specialty vehicle. KKB does not apply here and so on. The trade values I'm getting are negative. Any KKB figures I got offline for normal trade-in's did not match up to the dealers appraisals.


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

WHITEX said:


> I'm trying to trade a highly modded Rubicon. This Jeep is beautiful and outfitted. The dealer replies are...we can't sell....don't want a specialty vehicle. KKB does not apply here and so on. The trade values I'm getting are negative. Any KKB figures I got offline for normal trade-in's did not match up to the dealers appraisals.


What you are going through is very common for modified vehicles. If you are trying to sell it with the mods, then your only real choice is to keep posting on the Jeep forums and hope someone will bite.

Usually, the simplest path is to "de-mod" your jeep and return it to normal. Then you can sell it and the mods separately.


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

Take it to Carmax and see what they offer. As I said in my previous post trading in a vehicle puts you in a bad spot. For one thing it muddies up the deal and for another a dealer is not going to bid high on a trade for the reasons I stated above.


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

BTW, recently Edmunds average trade in was lower than the lowest Manheim auction number on my '08 135i 'vert.


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## m3boarder (May 19, 2007)

KBB and edmunds are guides, based on sales data which is not real time and also can include the extra x thousand dollars a dealer can put on a car to close the sale of a new car. Recent Manheim prices are more accurate obviously and usually lower, but the difference is highly dependent on the type of car, and especially the market conditions/supply and demand.

I agree with taking your car to Carmax to get a true value :thumbup:


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## David1 (Jan 16, 2007)

Remember that you can't buy it for Manheim anyways. There is a buyers fee, shipping, recon, etc. You can add a grand real quick. Use it as a tool.


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## suer (Jul 1, 2008)

Elias said:


> Manheim is rock bottom and if you are trading your car in expect to get Manheim or close to it. You can kiss KBB and Edmunds goodbye, most likely they won't come close to those prices unless its a car that is hot at the time.


I did use edmunds to get a sense of the value of my car and the quote for a private party came to 31800 which seemed a bit high to me. Is there a way to find how much lower the Manheim numbers are for a 2008 335i E92, limited options - sports/auto/blue tooth/bmw assist?


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