# Are you an Manual or Automatic buyer ?



## mark1 (Jun 7, 2003)

Just curious......

I purchased my 330Ci for a pure driving car. I would not consider an automatic transmission. I realize that some buyers purchase these cars more for the luxury and comfort, and probably want an automatic tranny. I know you can manually shift the automatic, but it's not the same.

So, which did you buy ? And why ?


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

Step. I just got tired of shifting after 15 years of manuals. Plus to some extent it has to do with traffic too, but some on here don't like that reasoning.  

The 330 is such a fun car even with Step, it's probably just that much more with a stick, but i have absolutely no regrets.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Can someone dig up all the old polls on this?

You'll find that on this forum, MT drivers are in the majority.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

I can't imagine owning an auto-trans vehicle. Or at least driving one on a daily basis. I fear that someday before too long, the manual transmission will disappear alltogether (this already happened in the "big 3" about 20 years ago), in favor of one choice: an automatic that can also be shifted with buttons on the steering wheel (or similar). 

The primary reason for driving a manual, is to have total control over which gear is being used at all times. Nothing worse than a car trying to decide for me, becuase 99.9% of the time, the car is dead wrong. I'd hate to be forced to go with a manu-matic transmission, even if I could choose which gear at all times. There's something so fun about that 3rd pedal. So much more involving. And I think that's the main attraction.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Kaz said:


> *Can someone dig up all the old polls on this?*


http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9513&highlight=automatic+manual

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2877


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## numbersguy (May 21, 2003)

When the lease on my F-150 is up in October I'll be getting a 325i manual. The Ford has been very good to me and the high seating position combined with the smooth auto tranny is a great stress reducer in stop and go freeway traffic. You have to drive a full-sized pickup or SUV in a freeway crawl to know what I mean.

I'll be commuting with the 325i too, but I'm getting this car to have fun with also. I wouldn't even consider a Step 325i. No more than I would consider getting a manual tranny on a heavy, slow-revving machine like the Ford.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

After three years automatic 323ci, I'm back to manual again.

And I'm very glad I did it. 

Not that I didn't drive manual cars during that time (I had a Focus and I have a 320d now, both manuals).

But there's nothing like driving a BMW with a manual tranny, even their manuals are not the easiest ones.


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## machmeter (Aug 6, 2002)

Like them both, at different times, for basic reasons. I recently drove a 325i step and liked it. But, next purchase will almost definitely be manual. I like manual 90% of the time.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

This will probably be my one and only manual transmission car. My wife doesn't appreciate it but is humoring me. Also, there are two types of driving days...

(1) Get me from point A to point B damn it! And the less I have to think about it, the better...

(2) Ah, I just want to find some nice roads and drive around and enjoy the xperience.

Unfortunately, type (2) days are hard to find. Also, for the most part, I usually have type (1) days with a little bit of 2 thrown in. So it's not PRACTICAL to have a manual tranny. Now something like paddle shifting, that might not be so bad.

Z


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## Bavarian (Jun 15, 2002)

I purchased an automatic because I LOATHE shifting in heavy traffic. Stop and go traffic and having to shift KILLS me. Furthermore, the 330i is sufficiently fast for me even if the auto loses some of the engine's torque along the way. It's still faster than a 325 with a manual, so I'm happy.

I would NOT trade in my Steptronic for a manual at all! If I ever ditch the Steptronic, it would be for BMW's SMG or Audi's DSG.

EGGS!!!


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## lili (Jun 9, 2003)

ff said:


> *IThe primary reason for driving a manual, is to have total control over which gear is being used at all times. Nothing worse than a car trying to decide for me, becuase 99.9% of the time, the car is dead wrong. *


AMEN!!!


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## Bavarian (Jun 15, 2002)

ff said:


> *I can't imagine owning an auto-trans vehicle. Or at least driving one on a daily basis. I fear that someday before too long, the manual transmission will disappear alltogether (this already happened in the "big 3" about 20 years ago), in favor of one choice: an automatic that can also be shifted with buttons on the steering wheel (or similar).
> 
> The primary reason for driving a manual, is to have total control over which gear is being used at all times. Nothing worse than a car trying to decide for me, becuase 99.9% of the time, the car is dead wrong. I'd hate to be forced to go with a manu-matic transmission, even if I could choose which gear at all times. There's something so fun about that 3rd pedal. So much more involving. And I think that's the main attraction. *


The manual WILL and SHOULD die! Some years later, autos will be standard, and you'll pay extra to get a manual. Manuals should die because trannies like BMW's SMG and Audi's DSG can shift as fast or faster than a manual one. At the same time, you don't have to deal with a clumsy stick and third pedal. Furthermore, when the traffic gets bad, you switch to auto. Otherwise those particular trannies will totally obey you and will outshift you in speed compared to your own skill. No loss if manuals dissappear!


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## mark1 (Jun 7, 2003)

Sorry to be repetitive on the subject.....I'm new on this forum.
I just look at those previous polls, thanks for finding them.

I do sympathize with those of you that live in metropolitan areas with all that heavy traffic. It would be a pain to constantly shift in that type of driving, and you can't really enjoy the capabilities of your BMW in bumper-to-bumper traffic anyway.

But here in Florida I DO still have fun with even "Point A to Point B" driving. This car makes trips to the grocery store fun, and I am convinced that alot of that dynamic would be missing with a automatic (even a Steptronic).


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## mark1 (Jun 7, 2003)

Bavarian said:


> *The manual WILL and SHOULD die! Some years later, autos will be standard, and you'll pay extra to get a manual. Manuals should die because trannies like BMW's SMG and Audi's DSG can shift as fast or faster than a manual one. At the same time, you don't have to deal with a clumsy stick and third pedal. Furthermore, when the traffic gets bad, you switch to auto. Otherwise those particular trannies will totally obey you and will outshift you in speed compared to your own skill. No loss if manuals dissappear! *


I disagree.

There isn't an automatic transmission made that knows when I want to downshift enterign a corner, or stay in second through a sweeper, or one that see that the hill I'm on is going to flatten out and turn right.

Silly Rabbit, slush boxes are for dummies !

Just joking :rofl:


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2003)

Bavarian said:


> *The manual WILL and SHOULD die! Some years later, autos will be standard, and you'll pay extra to get a manual. Manuals should die because trannies like BMW's SMG and Audi's DSG can shift as fast or faster than a manual one. At the same time, you don't have to deal with a clumsy stick and third pedal. Furthermore, when the traffic gets bad, you switch to auto. Otherwise those particular trannies will totally obey you and will outshift you in speed compared to your own skill. No loss if manuals dissappear! *


Once again, Rooster, you prove your overwhelming ignorance.

If you do not understand the appeal of the manual tranny, just keep your mouth shut. Anyone who truly appreciates stick knows that shifting speed, cost, etc have nothing to do with the appeal of a truly manual transmission.

SMG is just a really advanced automatic.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

I'd only get an automatic if I could have an E65 as a third car. :angel:


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *I'd only get an automatic if I could have an E65 as a third car. :angel: *


Bah. I'd only get one if it was an E38 740i Sport. And it would be only until I could line up the tranny swap.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

Bavarian said:


> *The manual WILL and SHOULD die! Some years later, autos will be standard, and you'll pay extra to get a manual. Manuals should die because trannies like BMW's SMG and Audi's DSG can shift as fast or faster than a manual one. At the same time, you don't have to deal with a clumsy stick and third pedal. Furthermore, when the traffic gets bad, you switch to auto. Otherwise those particular trannies will totally obey you and will outshift you in speed compared to your own skill. No loss if manuals dissappear! *


If paddle shifter are good enough for Formula 1 they are good enough for me.

(ahem) Aren't they making the automatic shifting illegal in F1 for 2004?

Z


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

Manual. My 92 525i (2 owners) was my first slushy. So, I have the best of both worlds.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2003)

mecklaiz said:


> *If paddle shifter are good enough for Formula 1 they are good enough for me.
> 
> (ahem) Aren't they making the automatic shifting illegal in F1 for 2004?
> 
> Z *


I am quite confident that SMG is more "efficient" than a true manual tranny. No question about it.

But the most efficient means isn't always the most enjoyable. For example, I assure you that sexual intercourse is not the most efficient approach to creating fertilized human eggs. But does anyone want to give that up.

I'm keeping my manual transmission.


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## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

LmtdSlip said:


> *Primary reason for the auto is the crappy commuter traffic. Stop and go kills me and is the only time I wish for an auto. Of course thats five days a week, twice a day. *


I have never understood this argument.

In stop and go commuter traffic, I PREFER a manual (just as in every other situation). I leave it in 2nd, and just play with the throttle. I rarely have to touch the brake, and almost never have to use the clutch.


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## mickey513 (Jun 12, 2003)

Auto, I don't plan on beating this car nor "race" every driver who gives me that look. I bought this for the luxury and comfort, not to go racing.


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## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

mickey513 said:


> *Auto, I don't plan on beating this car nor "race" every driver who gives me that look. I bought this for the luxury and comfort, not to go racing. *


Well, I don't think any one of the 60%+ of people who have a stick here bought it for "racing".


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## mquetel (Jan 30, 2003)

One thing I know for sure is that BMW makes great cars, be they manual, automatic or SMG. :thumbup: 

For my 330Ci I chose a manual, though my wife wanted automatic. I've been driving an automatic for the past 7 years- before that all manuals... and I missed it!. My driving reality is that I don't have to drive in traffic (heck, I don't drive much at all) and most of the driving I will do is for pleasure... it made sense for me. If this was a year from now and SMG was available in the 330Ci, it would have been a much tougher decision.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Stick with clutch pedal, please. Nothing else. Had an automatic once. Hated it. Won't make that mistake again.


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## apar330i (Aug 19, 2002)

SpaceMonkey said:


> *I have never understood this argument.
> 
> In stop and go commuter traffic, I PREFER a manual (just as in every other situation). I leave it in 2nd, and just play with the throttle. I rarely have to touch the brake, and almost never have to use the clutch. *


That's fine if you have to stop. I don't know about your traffic but here there are times where you're not rolling - you have to use the clutch and the brake. The days when you are moving three feet at a time are the days I wish I had a Step.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

SpaceMonkey said:


> *I have never understood this argument.
> 
> In stop and go commuter traffic, I PREFER a manual (just as in every other situation). I leave it in 2nd, and just play with the throttle. I rarely have to touch the brake, and almost never have to use the clutch. *


Agree- in 90% of stop/go situations I can leave the car in 1st or 2nd and maintain a slow but steady pace-- much more efficient less wearing than riding the brakes w/ an auto.

Vince-
That was an eloquent defense of the automatic. I sometimes imagine that having an automatic or SMG transmission w/ paddles would be fun-- but I really enjoy the extra control/finesse of having to deal w/ the 3rd pedal. I'll admit that I can no longer justify it on performance or efficiency grounds (compared w/ SMG-type or CVT transmissions), but nonetheless I'll never be able to give up having a manual. BTW, I just saw the article on you in TotalBMW-- nice work.


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## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

apar328i said:


> *That's fine if you have to stop. I don't know about your traffic but here there are times where you're not rolling - you have to use the clutch and the brake. The days when you are moving three feet at a time are the days I wish I had a Step. *


Even in "stop and go" traffic, if you stay 1/2 a car length to one full car length back from the car in front of you, most times you still wouldn't have to stop.

And you can always give a small boost to the throttle if anyone trys to cut in front of you, should you so desire.

:dunno: Never have I wished I had a step, even when it takes me 3+ hours to get to work in heavy traffic. (my normal morning commute is 45 minutes).


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## apar330i (Aug 19, 2002)

SpaceMonkey said:


> *Even in "stop and go" traffic, if you stay 1/2 a car length to one full car length back from the car in front of you, most times you still wouldn't have to stop.
> 
> And you can always give a small boost to the throttle if anyone trys to cut in front of you, should you so desire.
> 
> :dunno: Never have I wished I had a step, even when it takes me 3+ hours to get to work in heavy traffic. (my normal morning commute is 45 minutes). *


If I did that on my commute one of two things would happen - rear end the guy in front of me or stall the car. When traffic isn't moving at all I really have no choice but to clutch and brake. Hey, what ever works for you.


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## Bruce128iC (Feb 16, 2003)

My 2000 323i was a manual (I lived in NJ at the time and loved it) but then I moved to LA and eventually bought the 'vert and got an automatic due to the driving conditions here. It's no fun being stuck in first gear for miles at a time on the freeway.....give in a manual tranny anyday in these conditions. Plus the BMW steptronic is a lot of fun in "sport" mode! I'm really enjoying it! 

But my S.O. has a manual 1988 528e and I do LOVE driving that car every now and then. It has a GREAT manual transmission. If my 323i had been as smooth shifting as the 528, I may have kept it.


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

I just ordered a 330ci Auto-transmission

I was hard core manual until I drove a BMW auto. I've been driving a manual Toyota for 5+ years and love it. But, I found the BMW Step to be so much better than other cars, so I decided to buy an autmatic. 

By the way, my wife wants me to get a manual. That is what she has always bought. 

If I could, I would get manual seats, windows, and locks.

For me it depends on the car and how good or bad the auto-trans is.

 :thumbup: :thumbdwn:


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## waxhaw (May 5, 2003)

A manual transmission is to an automatic transmission...

as Guinness :drink: is to Miller Lite...

as the Boston Symphony is to the Boston Pops...

as Starbuck's French Roast is to Folger's De-caf...

as the Talking Heads are to the Back Street Boys...

as habanero salsa is to ketchup...

and so on.

Fact is, distressing though it may be, a majority of people probably prefer the second alternative in each of those couplets. Sales figures would seem to show as much.

Not for the first time, I stand in the minority of consumer opinion. To me, people who buy a BMW with an automatic are cheating themselves. But it's no skin off my nose.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

apar328i said:


> *That's fine if you have to stop. I don't know about your traffic but here there are times where you're not rolling - you have to use the clutch and the brake. The days when you are moving three feet at a time are the days I wish I had a Step. *


No big deal even if you have to stop. The current E46 clutch is so light that you feel like you are stepping on the throttle. Anybody complain about their right foot being tired in stop and go traffic?


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## mickey513 (Jun 12, 2003)

I live in San Francisco, so I can tell you the commute is among the worst in the nation. I would have gotten a manual but the bimmer is meant to be enjoyed. Driving a stick will take the pleasure part out of it in traffic like SF. But I don't just have a bimmer. I have a 03 RSX-S and 94gsr, 2 stick car I use for the "Other" type of driving.


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## jgrgnt (Apr 27, 2002)

Manual, here.

I drove my first manual in Germany--a VW Golf TDI. That was fun. I came back to my automatic Camry V6 a week later and found myself bored to death with the driving experience. It was then that I decided my next car would be a stick. If I didn't like it, I argued, then I could always go back to an automatic.

So far, I'm loving it. The automatic just seemed to suck all the fun (and engine power) out of driving. Sure, the acceleration with a stick isn't as smooth as it could be with an auto, but at least I felt like I was _accelerating_ and not just moving forward. :yawn:

That said, I can certainly sympathize with those who have long daily commutes. A stick-shift can get old real fast, especially with how traffic has become here in Southern California. I start feeling tired after a mere hour of stop-and-go madness, though this might be due to my relative inexperience (only one year). Fortunately, my daily commute is 10 minutes.

And it's not like the StepTronic is bad; I test drove one before I bought my car and was thoroughly impressed with it. It was hands-down the best automatic I've ever driven, and the manual mode seemed very decent.

But at that point, my mind was already made up, so as tempting as it was to "stick" with an auto, I just couldn't wait to experience life with a manual.


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## mquetel (Jan 30, 2003)

Wow people are pretty passionate about this. :yikes:


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

*Racing*



mark1 said:


> *I disagree.
> 
> There isn't an automatic transmission made that knows when I want to downshift enterign a corner, or stay in second through a sweeper, or one that see that the hill I'm on is going to flatten out and turn right.
> 
> ...


Wrong!!! I guess you don't remember the days when the JIM HALL Racing Team put a Automatic( slush box),in there CHAPAREALL racing car.They one quite a few races with the auto.It must be that it was smart enough to know when the car was entering a corner or a sweeper or that hill or flatten out and turn right.
vern


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Bavarian said:


> *LOL!!! That was an EGGcelent responce old man! All the manual tranny owners here just got BURNED - and I mean BURNED!!! You're absolutely correct - who is to say that Steptronic owners do not derive pleasure and enjoyment from their trannies?
> 
> You know, if there wasn't a strong demand for automatics, they wouldn't be standard in more than half of the cars sold in North America...but you don't need to believe me or that FACT.
> 
> ...


Okay... Do you feel better now about owning a step. :rofl:


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

ff said:


> *I wouldn't mind having manual windows. Definitely would love having a manual seat as well. And while you're at it, take away that ludicrous auto climate control. I'd be happy man without all that stuff. Honestly. *


I'm with you on this ff.

Less weight, simple to use, less chance of break down, cheaper to buy...


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> *I'm with you on this ff.
> 
> Less weight, simple to use, less chance of break down, cheaper to buy... *


Yep. I love my manual seats-- and actually attempted to retrofit (unsuccesfully), the manual climate control. Too bad we don't live in europe where we could buy BMWs with manual everything (you can actually get a 3 series w/ manual rear windows).


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## mark1 (Jun 7, 2003)

The reason I posed this question is that I noticed a distinct difference in the driving experience when test driving a Manual vs. Automatic of the same model. 

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like:

I DRIVE a manual transmission car.

I RIDE IN an automatic transmission car.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

mark1 said:


> *Maybe it's just me, but I feel like:
> 
> I DRIVE a manual transmission car.
> 
> I RIDE IN an automatic transmission car. *


I couldn't have said it better. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## sshuit (Apr 15, 2002)

I think I've asked this before....

Any reason they couldn't have an automatic AND manual transmission in the same car ?


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

mkh said:


> *I couldn't have said it better. :thumbup: :thumbup: *


I'll second that one. (hey, I heard that one day all automatic trans. cars will have drivers seats that are produced by La-z-Boy, with 6" of extra pillow-top cushioning. Sounds like the extendable leg rests may become a reality too.)


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## karrickk (May 5, 2003)

I think it depends on where you live and whether or not the car is for weekend driving or for commuting.

I haven't driven a BMW stick, but I have driven a manual tranny porsche. I can tell you that being stuck in an hour of stop and go traffic SUCKS in the porsche. I dont' even want to think about driving in San Francisco with that.

But if that were just a weekend car, and you're not driving in heavy traffic, then it's definitely more fun to drive in a stick.


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## EZ (Feb 27, 2003)

sshuit said:


> *I think I've asked this before....
> 
> Any reason they couldn't have an automatic AND manual transmission in the same car ? *


That's easy. You buy an auto tranny and stuff it in your trunk. Or visa versa, if you start with an AT car. :bigpimp:


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## PABS (Apr 3, 2003)

I lived in SF for many years. Never had anything but manuals. Even in traffic it's not an issue. I guess I've never known any other way.

I commuted in a 911 in SF from Marin county dwon to Market St.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *Bah. I'd only get one if it was an E38 740i Sport. And it would be only until I could line up the tranny swap. *


The E65 is so much more fun to drive, it's not funny.... Besides, with a 2.5 ton towing capacity, it'd make a great track car hauler.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *The E65 is so much more fun to drive, it's not funny.... Besides, with a 2.5 ton towing capacity, it'd make a great track car hauler.  *


A. This argument is so absurd it's funny.

B. There is no way in hell that I'd ever own an E65/66/67/68 no matter how it drives.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

TD said:


> *A. This argument is so absurd it's funny.
> 
> B. There is no way in hell that I'd ever own an E65/66/67/68 no matter how it drives. *


TD--

What is even more "funny" is that you make claims about these cars without ever having driven them. Please, do us all a favor-- drive an E46 M3, X5 and 745i one day, and then you can bash them all you want. Your arguments have little significance other than being a biased opinion if everyone knows you've never even driven one. Maybe you can drive one at the Komen event if it's in your area?


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## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> *TD--
> What is even more "funny" is that you make claims about these cars without ever having driven them. Please, do us all a favor-- drive an E46 M3, X5 and 745i one day, and then you can bash them all you want. *


He's driven an E46 M3...


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2003)

SARAFIL said:


> *TD--
> 
> What is even more "funny" is that you make claims about these cars without ever having driven them. Please, do us all a favor-- drive an E46 M3, X5 and 745i one day, and then you can bash them all you want. Your arguments have little significance other than being a biased opinion if everyone knows you've never even driven one. Maybe you can drive one at the Komen event if it's in your area?
> 
> *


E46M3- Driven it. Posted extensive comments

X5- It's an SUV. I am in denial about it's existence. A BMW SUV?! WTF?! I'm not interested at all. Why bother driving one?

745i- Can't afford one, don't need a car that big and refuse to drive an automatic and still think it's fugly regardless. Again, why bother?

My joke was that, in comparing the E65 to the E38, it was a silly comparison. I'm not in the market for either. It's just that the E38 is gorgeous and the E65 is quite the opposite.


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## DoctorBimmer (Feb 13, 2003)

mark1 said:


> *The reason I posed this question is that I noticed a distinct difference in the driving experience when test driving a Manual vs. Automatic of the same model.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I feel like:
> 
> ...


Amen !:thumbup:


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

I have just joined the Manual tranny world and I LOVE IT!! :drive:
Now I know what all the hype has been about.


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## Dan Martin (Apr 3, 2003)

This thread is definitely long enough already, but I'm going to make it longer.... 

I haven't seen anyone mention the benefits of having a clutch in slippery weather yet. To me a clutch is like manual traction control.
I have found that even the best electronic traction control systems still get confused and leave me wanting more control. With a clutch you have total control over what your wheels are doing.

I don't doubt that SMG or some derivative will eventually replace the conventional manual in most cars (hopefully not for a long time). I fully agree that SMG will get you around a track faster and is probably nicer in trafic, but I think I would still feel just as disconnected from the car as if I was driving an automatic.

In the end I guess it boils down to what you feel most comfortable with. I'm sure that if you have driven automatics for your whole life, you are going to be much faster/happier in an auto than you would in a manual.

As for the argument on resale value of the car, I say forget about the resale. Did you buy the car for you to drive or were you buying it for the guy you are going to sell it to? :dunno: The same goes for people that put bras on their car. Unless they are driving to a photo shoot or to Bimmerfest, why are they hiding the front of their cars? But that's another story.....

Dan


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

Manual of course!

Bottom line is that it takes less work/skill to drive an auto and that meets the needs for 95% of today's car buyers...this board is full of people who want to be interactively involved with their cars...more so than just pushing a throttle pedal like most of the inactive people this world is creating day after day...proper shifting is a fun skill and I can tell you for a fact that drivers with stick are paying more attention to the road and how they are driving than cell phone hugging auto drivers!!


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## als (Apr 26, 2002)

Definitely manual. It's the only way to drive.
Driving automatic makes me feel like a handycap.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Bavarian said:


> *The manual WILL and SHOULD die! Some years later, autos will be standard, and you'll pay extra to get a manual. Manuals should die because trannies like BMW's SMG and Audi's DSG can shift as fast or faster than a manual one. At the same time, you don't have to deal with a clumsy stick and third pedal. Furthermore, when the traffic gets bad, you switch to auto. Otherwise those particular trannies will totally obey you and will outshift you in speed compared to your own skill. No loss if manuals dissappear! *




I drove my 98 5 speed M3 in the mother of all traffic that we called LA Traffic, and never once did I go "man, I hate shifting this thing, I wish that I had a slushie creeparoo equipped M3.":nono:

My E46 M3 is SMG because I am a gadget freak.:bigpimp: If the M3 had only come with a 6 speed with a clutch pedal, I would not have hesitated inbuying it.

All bimmer 3 series are geared so that you can creep along in 1st just fine in traffic, if you leave a little space in between you and the guy in front of you.

I drove a slushie loaner 325i for a week and couln't wait to give the damn thing back, instead of pushing in the clutch once in a while in traffic, I gotta put my foot on the brakes the WHOLE FRIGGING TIME THAT I AM IN TRAFFIC.:violent:

And no, SMG doesn't creep, thank God. And no, I have used the auto mode twice, once to humor the Hack, once to humor WhatApex?!?

Slushie sucks.:thumbdwn:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## Mapman (May 26, 2003)

mark1 said:


> *The reason I posed this question is that I noticed a distinct difference in the driving experience when test driving a Manual vs. Automatic of the same model.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but I feel like:
> 
> ...


Great way of putting it. :thumbup:

I've driven manuals my whole life, and an automatic is simply no substitute for me. And I could sit in bumper to bumper, stop-and-go traffic all day, and I'd still feel the same.


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

greginaz1 said:


> *Manual of course!
> 
> Bottom line is that it takes less work/skill to drive an auto and that meets the needs for 95% of today's car buyers...this board is full of people who want to be interactively involved with their cars...more so than just pushing a throttle pedal like most of the inactive people this world is creating day after day...proper shifting is a fun skill and I can tell you for a fact that drivers with stick are paying more attention to the road and how they are driving than cell phone hugging auto drivers!!
> 
> *


:thumbup:


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## Bmwcat (Jul 30, 2004)

*Ottomatic*

I prefer to drive a stick, HOWEVER, I was not able to locate a pre-owned manual here so I now drive the automatic. As automatic trannies go the BMW is smooth, quiet and a joy to drive. Next Bimmer will be a stick for sure tho! :thumbup:


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## Mantis (Sep 7, 2004)

I perfer a manual.I think the auto trans takes something away from the car.

I don't care for the steptronic.


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## bbkat (Oct 27, 2002)

manual - I like to be in control


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## Jim H (Feb 9, 2004)

Just can't beat a manual for control and fun-to-drive. Those who say that the average driver can't do it as well as the steptronic does must be talking about the average automatic driver, but not the average dedicated manual driver. Maybe someday the car's computer will be smart enough to anticipate turns and conditions better than a decent manual driver, but not yet. 

All that said, I do understand why others might opt for the automatic. It's all about preference. Just not for me, that's all.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

ManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManual


Even with one hand in a cast.


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## anon (Jul 8, 2003)

manual.

wholeheartedly.


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## sapphire (Jun 10, 2004)

Manual...


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

You guys'll love this thread. :thumbdwn:

There aint no justifying a slushie Turbo


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## wheel-man (Sep 28, 2004)

The Roadstergal said:


> ManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManualManual


what he said. what he said. what he said...


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## vicszhp (Aug 27, 2004)

Automatic.

I still enjoy stick and wish I had it still when its 2.a.m. with no traffic and want to be aggressive. Truth is, my ZHP step is plenty fast so having a MT is not a huge priority for me. I enjoy just kickin back and not worrying about shifting in traffic. My hands are free to do whatever, especially handy when you have date with ya... no more.

hold on, hold on, wait...gotta shift, hold on, .....sorry.

Got a cell phone, or have a drink in your hand? Having MT makes dealing with that a little tricky.

Obviously there is strengths to both Auto and MT, so there really is NO wrong answer here.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

wheel-man said:


> what *s*he said. what *s*he said. what *s*he said...


 :eeps:


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

wheel-man said:


> what he said. what he said. what he said...


what she said. what she said. what she said...


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## wheel-man (Sep 28, 2004)

sorry, my bad.... what she said. what she said...  :thumbup: 

... got to love a girl that drives manual


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

vicszhp said:


> Automatic.
> 
> I still enjoy stick and wish I had it still when its 2.a.m. with no traffic and want to be aggressive. Truth is, my ZHP step is plenty fast so having a MT is not a huge priority for me. I enjoy just kickin back and not worrying about shifting in traffic. My hands are free to do whatever, especially handy when you have date with ya... no more.
> 
> ...


Sounds like driving is getting in the way of your other activites. 
I hope you are aware of the other drivers on the road.


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Manual all the way. I've driven E46 automatics lots of times and I just can't see how it can compare. The response is sluggish--maybe a tad better than some other autos out there, but nothing to write home about. The new 6er auto seems a better transmission to me, but that's a different car altogether (and I'd still go with the manual). My 330Ci is the first manual I've ever owned and I'll never go back to automatics. My daily commute includes lots of time in stop-and-go traffic every day and I'd still rather have the stick--I mean I actually prefer it in traffic to an auto.


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## vicszhp (Aug 27, 2004)

Theres other drivers on the road? So that's how it works, damn..thanks.

I take the Lotus out when I want to use MT. I agree that a real sports car should always be MT, period. I consider my ZHP a cruiser with a little pep, so I use my car for just that...cruising. There's no better way to cruise in my opinion than in an auto.

But that's just me.



Artslinger said:


> Sounds like driving is getting in the way of your other activites.
> I hope you are aware of the other drivers on the road.


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## toniarae (Jan 7, 2002)

mark1 said:


> Just curious......
> 
> I purchased my 330Ci for a pure driving car. I would not consider an automatic transmission. I realize that some buyers purchase these cars more for the luxury and comfort, and probably want an automatic tranny. I know you can manually shift the automatic, but it's not the same.
> 
> So, which did you buy ? And why ?


I purchased an auto because I was having major leg pains(literally) from the manual that I was driving. I love driving a manual, but my leg did not!!! The previous car was a MACH I Mustang and I assume the clutch was extremely stiff because this car was definately built for the 1/4 mile track. :thumbup: I loved all the horsepower, but it was not meant for everyday driving...back and forth to work and other errands  . That is my reasoning for not purchasing a manual this time...maybe for an extra vehicle, we'll get the manual.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

vicszhp said:


> Theres other drivers on the road? So that's how it works, damn..thanks.
> 
> I take the Lotus out when I want to use MT. I agree that a real sports car should always be MT, period. I consider my ZHP a cruiser with a little pep, so I use my car for just that...cruising. There's no better way to cruise in my opinion than in an auto.
> 
> But that's just me.


Hey, you're the one saying you're to busy doing other things to shift a car.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

vicszhp said:


> My hands are free to do whatever, especially handy when you have date with ya... no more.
> 
> hold on, hold on, wait...gotta shift, hold on, .....sorry.
> 
> Got a cell phone, or have a drink in your hand? Having MT makes dealing with that a little tricky.


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## JamesSpot (Mar 4, 2003)

*Manual for Me in a 330i*

Bought my car as a sports sedan. Practicality, comfort, and fun-to-drive were what sold me on the BMW.

1. Practical: 4 doors and folding rear seat (option) make a small car flexible for carrying people and things.
2. Comfortable: Heated leather sport seat (options) and long seat tracks give a tall person a comfortable ride, while the bright Xenons (option), decent sounding h/k stereo, and attractive interior are nice on the eyes and ears.
3. Fun-to-Drive: Communicative steering, incredible braking, a smooth-revving engine, and a tight, mechanical-feeling 6 speed short-shifter on the ZHP are enjoyable on the drive.

The flexibility of the double vanos engine lets me shift normally through the gears at 3-4k rpms, rev-it-up in 2nd or 3rd to the speed limit and then shift to 5th or 6th to cruise, or just stay in gear with enough torque while cruising to not have to shift for terrain.

My wife's van and daughter's car are both autos. For me, the spiritual essence of "my first" BMW was getting a manual sport sedan.


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

vicszhp said:


> Got a cell phone, or have a drink in your hand? Having MT makes dealing with that a little tricky.


perhaps that's a good reason why you _should_ stick to a manual... :eeps:


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## vicszhp (Aug 27, 2004)

dorkus said:


> perhaps that's a good reason why you _should_ stick to a manual... :eeps:


Beavis and Butthead

"uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. ok."


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## schreck (Jul 29, 2004)

Manual. I really enjoy driving it and it's a blast to drive for the most part. But there are some times when I would not totally mind a SECOND car that's an auto. I would never just have one car that's an auto. Like this is what I'd want out of an auto: A 745i and a manual M3. Cruiser and fun car. But if I had to choose one or the other, definitely a manual. It adds enjoyment to my daily drives in my ford contour. haha. :dunno:


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## dynosor (Jul 15, 2003)

*Awesome line!*



jpherit said:


> I shift, therefore I am.


 Awesome line!

This is a personal choice. I have never owned an auto, but I don't look down on those that drive them.


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## Mapman (May 26, 2003)

dynosor said:


> I have never owned an auto, but I don't look down on those that drive them.


You should try it! Condescension can be a beautiful thing.


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## macgiants (Jul 15, 2004)

mark1 said:


> Just curious......
> 
> I purchased my 330Ci for a pure driving car. I would not consider an automatic transmission. I realize that some buyers purchase these cars more for the luxury and comfort, and probably want an automatic tranny. I know you can manually shift the automatic, but it's not the same.
> 
> So, which did you buy ? And why ?


I got the Steptronic, after having driving manuals for about 10 years.

For the most part, I'm glad I did. Driving on the 405 or 101 in LA I can actually deal with now. With a manual it will drive you crazy. I don't even drive that much in traffic at all, but damn, the auto makes a huge difference in these situations.

I still miss having a manual sometimes though. There are indeed times when shifting is fun. And no, the Steptronic doesn't cut it for its manual shifting mode (way too slow).

For the type of driving that I do, I'd still take the auto any day.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

macgiants said:


> I got the Steptronic, after having driving manuals for about 10 years.
> 
> For the most part, I'm glad I did. Driving on the 405 or 101 in LA I can actually deal with now. With a manual it will drive you crazy. I don't even drive that much in traffic at all, but damn, the auto makes a huge difference in these situations.
> 
> ...


I just don't get it. :dunno:

As a consultant, I drive to different clients every day, 405, 101, 134, 210, 110 in either the 5 speed 325is or the 6 speed Turbo. What is the problem? :bs:

If you just pay a little attention, you can creep along in 1st, then clutch in here and there. You can't drive a stick shift car like an automatic car by following people 2 feet away from their bumper. I leave just enough space between me and the car in front of me, and I much rather drive my stick shift cars than having to put my foot on the brakes during the entire drive. 

And I have converted what? four buddies of mine to stick shift drivers, all in LA traffic. None of them will go back to slushie anything. Clutch in and out is way better than having to put the foot on the stupid brakes all the time. :thumbdwn:

A BMW without a real gearbox is souless. :flame:


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

Stuka said:


> You can't drive a stick shift car like an automatic car by following people 2 feet away from their bumper. I leave just enough space between me and the car in front of me, and I much rather drive my stick shift cars than having to put my foot on the brakes during the entire drive.


that may work for you out in LA (i'm surprised), but you can't drive in traffic that way here in the NYC area. if you leave more than 3 feet in front of you, you will constantly get cut off by people. especially if you are around any cabbies... they will creep and cut into almost any space they can get. you have no choice but to roll and brake, roll and brake...


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

dorkus said:


> that may work for you out in LA (i'm surprised), but you can't drive in traffic that way here in the NYC area. if you leave more than 3 feet in front of you, you will constantly get cut off by people. especially if you are around any cabbies... they will creep and cut into almost any space they can get. you have no choice but to roll and brake, roll and brake...


Look at the sigs, there are PLENTY, PLENTY of people in LA who drive stick shift bimmers to and from work everyday, it's not a big deal, really. :dunno:

I have been to NY, in the rain, in traffic in Manhattan, I wouldn't drive a nice car there. :thumbdwn:

For LA, I know it works, because I do it everyday. So do my converted to stick driver friends. :thumbup:

Lastly, the E46 none M clutches are sooo light anyway that I can't imagine it putting any strain on your knee. 

Traffic is not enough of an excuse for me to take away the soul of a bimmer. :angel:


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

Stuka said:


> Traffic is not enough of an excuse for me to take away the soul of a bimmer. :angel:


 :tsk:


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

Stuka said:


> I have been to NY, in the rain, in traffic in Manhattan, I wouldn't drive a nice car there. :thumbdwn:


you know, the funny thing is when i first got my bimmer i thought having such a nice car in this area, what with the traffic, crappy roads and weather, bad drivers, etc., was a bit of a waste. but after driving an old Honda Accord, then "upgrading" to the 325i, i'm now convinced that the worse the conditions, the MORE you need a nice car. life in my 325i is so much sweeter to the point where i actually don't mind getting stuck in traffic so much, or having to deal with stop and go. it's still annoying, but much more tolerable than in a lesser car. you could take a different approach and drive a beater, but i think it only makes the stress of driving here that much worse.



> Traffic is not enough of an excuse for me to take away the soul of a bimmer. :angel:


i agree that a car like this will always have more "soul" with a stick, and i would love to drive one myself. however half the time i am stuck in crappy traffic, dealing with wildly varying speeds on congested roads, stopped on hills, etc. etc. and i am so relieved i don't have to deal with rowing gears and clutching. yes, a slush is the lazy man's way to drive, but over here sometimes you just need to get from point A to point B with the least amount of fuss. i think it's a bit of an East Coast thing; automatics far outnumber manuals in these parts.

you may ask, why bother driving a bimmer if it's a slush? well, yes i have robbed the car of some soul, but i can still experience and enjoy the precise steering, communicative road feel, superb handling and impeccable ride quality of my 325i even with the slush. it's still a bimmer no matter what transmission you put on it. it's also a practical matter for me - if i want my mom or gf or someone else to borrow my car, it has to be a slush because they cannot drive stick. that alone ruled it out for me.


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