# To stagger or not winter tires



## soledoc (Feb 5, 2007)

That's the question? Is it better to keep the stagger in winter or just get all 4 the same?
I've heard both opinions and want an expert thought on this.

I have a staggered set up on my '09 328i sedan with OEM Potenzas. Need to switch to, likely 16" tires/wheels and am looking at all 4 with 205/55/16 as recommended by tire rack. They would only suggest staggered winter tires with a 17" tire. I have the 17" tires now as a summer tire.

Is it going to affect the performance/ balance/ fuel mileage etc. if I get 4 non staggered 16" tires? What would the experts do? 

I'm in central IN with a fair amount of crappy weather and a RWD car so I need these tires.

Oh, and I need run flats and tire pressure sensors.


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## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

soledoc said:


> That's the question? Is it better to keep the stagger in winter or just get all 4 the same?
> I've heard both opinions and want an expert thought on this.
> 
> I have a staggered set up on my '09 328i sedan with OEM Potenzas. Need to switch to, likely 16" tires/wheels and am looking at all 4 with 205/55/16 as recommended by tire rack. They would only suggest staggered winter tires with a 17" tire. I have the 17" tires now as a summer tire.
> ...


For maximum snow traction, we would eliminate the stagger and run the more narrow front tire on all four corners. Dry grip and performance will be reduced simply by going to a winter tire, regardless of what size.

You can use either runflat or non runflat tires. If you go without pressure sensors, you'll need to ignore the dash light and alarm tone when you start the car all winter long.


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## soledoc (Feb 5, 2007)

OK...so would you go with 17" non staggered or 16" non staggered?


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## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

16"

cheaper, less prone to pothole damage

if i could fit 16s to my 335 i would. with softer compound siped winter tires, the loss of road feel will be negligible for 16s vs 17s


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## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

Orient330iNYC said:


> 16"
> 
> cheaper, less prone to pothole damage
> 
> if i could fit 16s to my 335 i would. with softer compound siped winter tires, the loss of road feel will be negligible for 16s vs 17s


Agreed.


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## RichmannMotorSport.com (Feb 19, 2009)

yup the smallest the wheel better and the narrowest tire all around for winter set up. so NON staggered FTW.


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## mrnile (Jun 25, 2009)

I don't mean to thread jack but would a set of FRONT oem 18s on all 4 corners be a decent setup for a e46 M3? Of course fitted with winter tires.

ps. WA state winter conditions, driving of no more than 30 miles round trip.


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## twowinns (Mar 25, 2007)

Just for winter wheels/tires...What size wheel would y'all recommend for a 2009 X5 with a sport package? I have 19" now, but would the standard / base 18" be better?


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## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

twowinns said:


> Just for winter wheels/tires...What size wheel would y'all recommend for a 2009 X5 with a sport package? I have 19" now, but would the standard / base 18" be better?


I'd minus size to the base 18" for better snow traction, lower pricing, and better selection.

Winter http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=/winter/index.jsp


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## surf330 (Sep 20, 2008)

One other advantage of going non-staggered is that you can rotate the tires from season to season (front to back, back to front) and help even out the treadwear.


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## Landrew (Oct 23, 2014)

I have a 2011 335i xdrive coupe. I decided after much back and forth that I will stick with my summer performance runflats (stock 255-35-18 rear and 225-40-18 front) in the summer (switching to them after pothole repair season in the spring), and then switching back to a set of separate wheels with winter performance NON-runflat tires for the winter. The other option was A/S performance NON-runflats all year, but with the low profile staggered setup and the snow we had last year, and all the potholes we had, I would rather not go that route (even with the switch to NON-runflats). Plus I have a lot of tread left on the summer tires.

The recommended setup for winter by Tirerack is 225-45-17's all around. I have read this thread, but have 2 related questions I hope someone can answer. 

1) how bad will understeer be, given that all tires will now be the same width? Will it be noticeable in spirited, but not overly aggressive driving?

2) Does anyone have any idea if BMW changed anything else on the suspension as part of the sport suspension option that gave me the staggered tire set up? Note that this is not the M suspension. I am just wondering if in adding the sport package, did they counter the understeer that would result from adding the wider tires to a non-sport suspension setup (standard car)? For example did they use different spring/shock rates or sway bars?



Thanks, Andy


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## Landrew (Oct 23, 2014)

*Oversteer when switching from staggered to non in winter?*

I have a 2011 335i xdrive coupe. I decided after much back and forth that I will stick with my summer performance runflats (stock 255-35-18 rear and 225-40-18 front) in the summer (switching to them after pothole repair season in the spring), and then switching back to a set of separate wheels with winter performance NON-runflat tires for the winter. The other option was A/S performance NON-runflats all year, but with the low profile staggered setup and the snow we had last year, and all the potholes we had, I would rather not go that route (even with the switch to NON-runflats). Plus I have a lot of tread left on the summer tires.

The recommended setup for winter by Tirerack is 225-45-17's all around. I have read this thread, but have 2 related questions I hope someone can answer.

1) how bad will understeer be, given that all tires will now be the same width? Will it be noticeable in spirited, but not overly aggressive driving?

2) Does anyone have any idea if BMW changed anything else on the suspension as part of the sport suspension option that gave me the staggered tire set up? Note that this is not the M suspension. I am just wondering if in adding the sport package, did they counter the understeer that would result from adding the wider tires to a non-sport suspension setup (standard car)? For example did they use different spring/shock rates or sway bars?

Thanks, Andy


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## innovativeit (Sep 30, 2007)

soledoc said:


> That's the question? Is it better to keep the stagger in winter or just get all 4 the same?
> I've heard both opinions and want an expert thought on this.
> 
> I have a staggered set up on my '09 328i sedan with OEM Potenzas. Need to switch to, likely 16" tires/wheels and am looking at all 4 with 205/55/16 as recommended by tire rack. They would only suggest staggered winter tires with a 17" tire. I have the 17" tires now as a summer tire.
> ...


Having used both staggered and non-staggered winter tires in the past, I highly recommend the non-staggered setup for better traction.


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## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

Landrew said:


> I have a 2011 335i xdrive coupe. I decided after much back and forth that I will stick with my summer performance runflats (stock 255-35-18 rear and 225-40-18 front) in the summer (switching to them after pothole repair season in the spring), and then switching back to a set of separate wheels with winter performance NON-runflat tires for the winter. The other option was A/S performance NON-runflats all year, but with the low profile staggered setup and the snow we had last year, and all the potholes we had, I would rather not go that route (even with the switch to NON-runflats). Plus I have a lot of tread left on the summer tires.
> 
> The recommended setup for winter by Tirerack is 225-45-17's all around. I have read this thread, but have 2 related questions I hope someone can answer.
> 
> ...


the suspensioned is tuned to understeer (regardless of tires). staggered tire setups with wider rear tireshave more understeer than square

bmw does not change anything to accomodate staggered tires in the suspension


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## Landrew (Oct 23, 2014)

Thx...I actually misworded my question. I meant to ask if the car would now oversteer too much and be potentially more dangerous in hard driving. The way I understand it is that with less tire on the rear the rear tires would lose adhesion faster. So instead of pushing through the turn (understeer) the car would tend to spin out the rear. 

However, I think you answered what I really wanted to know. If BMW did nothing when adding wider rears, and the standard car already understeers somewhat, if anything the handling with all the same size tires would be closer to neutral (less understeer but still some) than with the staggered setup. Makes me wonder what the advantage of the staggered setup really is other than being "cool". Thx again.


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## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

That's it exactly... it's "cool".


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## Orient330iNYC (Jul 30, 2002)

kyfdx said:


> That's it exactly... it's "cool".


this.


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