# Toyota Gas Pedals Not to Blame? Experts Skeptical of Toyota's Recall



## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

This sounds like a conspiracy theory to me but after reading the article it makes me wonder. Then again why would Toyota not want to solve the problem and spend millions of dollars recalling a part that isn't to blame?

What do you think, is it the pedal or not?

*Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect*

*The pedal maker denies that its products are at fault. Some independent safety experts also are skeptical of Toyota's explanations. 'We know this recall is a red herring,' one says.
*
_By Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger_

Toyota Motor Corp.'s decision to blame its widening sudden-acceleration problem on a gas pedal defect came under attack Friday, with the pedal manufacturer flatly denying that its products were at fault.

Federal vehicle safety records reviewed by The Times also cast doubt on Toyota's claims that sticky gas pedals were a significant factor in the growing reports of runaway vehicles. Of more than 2,000 motorist complaints of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles over the last decade, just 5% blamed a sticking gas pedal, the analysis found.

What's more, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has conducted eight investigations into sudden-acceleration problems in Toyota vehicles over the last seven years, none of which identified a sticking pedal as a potential cause.

"The way the sudden-acceleration problems are occurring in reported incidents doesn't comport with how this sticky pedal is described," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. "We know this recall is a red herring."

Sudden-acceleration events in Toyota and Lexus vehicles have been blamed for at least 19 fatalities and 815 vehicle crashes since 1999.

Toyota last fall blamed the episodes on floor mats that entrapped the gas pedals, leading to a massive recall. Then last week Toyota said sticking gas pedals were also causing sudden acceleration by not springing back into idle position, triggering another recall.

On Tuesday, the automaker stopped sales and production of eight models until it could remedy the problem.

Independent auto safety experts have been skeptical of Toyota's explanations, saying floor mats and sticky gas pedals can't fully explain the large number of complaints that have been mounting for the last decade, covering some of the most popular models in the company's lineup, including the Camry.

That argument was given more weight Friday when the manufacturer of the suspect pedals insisted its products had been unfairly blamed.

CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind., said in a statement that it had "deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information" about its products linked to the sudden-acceleration issue.

"The problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999, when CTS did not even make this product for any customer," the company said.

Toyota began using CTS-made pedals in the 2005 model year.

On Jan. 21, Toyota told federal regulators that CTS pedals were susceptible to moisture and could stick, forcing the recall of 2.3 million cars and trucks. CTS acknowledged that a tiny number of pedals had a rare condition that could cause a slow return to idle position, but it denied that this condition could cause unintended acceleration and said that it knew of no accidents or injuries caused by the issue.

Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the company had no comment on CTS' statement.

Another Toyota spokesman, Mike Michels, said in an e-mail that the company had identified the pedal problem as "abnormal friction in the pedal pivot mechanism" and that the automaker hoped to announce a remedy soon.

Toyota has honored CTS three times since 2005 for the quality and efficiency of its work, citing the fact that the supplier "exceeded quality expectations" and achieved "100 percent on-time delivery and for shipping accelerator pedal modules with zero defects."

The automaker also uses pedals supplied by Denso Corp., a Japanese company with North American headquarters in suburban Detroit, but has said those do not appear to be defective.

However, the Times review of federal safety records shows several instances of complaints of stuck pedals on vehicles built in Japan, which Toyota has said are not subject to the recall. For example, one complaint, filed two years ago, told of a 2007 Japanese-built Camry in Maryland with a pedal that "stuck to the floor."

A wide group of national automotive experts say there is strong evidence that a hidden electronic problem must account for at least some, if not most, of the Toyota sudden-acceleration events.

The 19 sudden-acceleration deaths involving Toyota vehicles are more than those that have occurred in vehicles from all other automakers combined, according to figures provided to The Times by NHTSA.

The Times has previously reported that consumer complaints of unintended acceleration surged in the years after the automaker introduced electronic throttles, by fivefold in some cases.

The electronic throttle system uses sensors, microprocessors and electric motors, rather than a traditional link such as a steel cable, to connect the driver's foot to the engine.

In recent interviews, two former NHTSA administrators, Ricardo Martinez and Joan Claybrook, have said they believe that some kind of electronic glitch may be causing the Toyota problems. Similar conclusions are being drawn by independent automotive safety experts, forensic mechanics and automotive electronics researchers, as well as many consumers.

In its review, The Times examined NHTSA data for all reports from Toyota drivers of gas pedals sticking since 1999, excluding those reports that blamed floor mats for trapping the pedal. That yielded 116 complaints about the gas pedals. Overall, there were 2,152 complaints categorized as vehicle speed control, which includes sudden acceleration.

Of the complaints about sticking pedals identified by The Times, only one resulted in a fatality. But that vehicle, a 2003 Camry, contained a pedal assembly that was not manufactured by CTS.

In fact, of 11 injuries reported to NHTSA in complaints that alleged stuck pedals, only one -- a 2008 Camry Hybrid that ran into a tree in Minnesota last October -- was in a vehicle included in the current recall, The Times found.

NHTSA officials, as well as officials at the U.S. Department of Transportation, have said they have exhaustively investigated Toyota's problems and found no evidence that any electronic defect exists in the company's electronic throttle system.

"The agency looks into all possible defects with these vehicles," a NHTSA public affairs representative said Friday.

But some motorists don't believe NHTSA's and Toyota's explanations.

Jeffrey Pepski, a financial consultant in suburban Minneapolis, said his Lexus ES350 accelerated to 80 miles per hour on a freeway in the Twin Cities last year. At one point, Pepski said, he hooked his toe under the pedal to pull it up. It was not stuck and the floor mat was not interfering with the pedal, he said. That did not solve the problem, he said.

Pepski said he described his actions to NHTSA investigators and a Toyota expert, and they didn't believe him. In October, NHTSA closed an investigation prompted by a defect petition filed by Pepski without taking action. Pepski traded in the vehicle to a Toyota dealer.

Kevin Haggerty, a New Jersey volunteer firefighter, said his 2007 Avalon accelerated out of control last month, the second time it had happened. By shifting back and forth into neutral, he was able to drive the car to a Toyota dealer, who he said was unable to pinpoint a problem.

Haggerty said dealership technicians could not find anything obstructing the pedal, but they replaced the pedal, electronic components and the engine throttle system.

He said they could not explain what specifically had caused the engine to accelerate on its own. But last week a Toyota spokesman told The Times that Haggerty's problem did in fact stem from the pedal.

"I don't feel safe in the car," Haggerty said. "I never felt comfortable that they knew what the problem was." Haggerty still has the vehicle.

_Source - http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-pedal30-2010jan30,0,790073,full.story_


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## johnnyg37 (Apr 23, 2008)

Great post... DO NOT BY TOYOTA DRIVING APPLIANCES!.......They are mass market junk, released to the US public with serious, sometimes fatal flaws. Not to mention the article positions the Toyota response as a quick fix in response to the problem. Toyota does not know what the issue is and I smell a cover up and a blame game starting.


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## NetSpySD (Dec 28, 2007)

On CNBC today, the car guru (forget his name) was talking about what I predicted would happen a few years ago.

As IBM grew to become number one in the computer industry, incompetence, resting on one's laurels, etc. allowed Apple, Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc. to take over the PC industry.

As GM grew to be number one. the same issues. As a result the Japanese models slipped into the number one spot.

Now we have a situation where Toyota, the #1 automaker has grown so large, they have become GM. Throwing Scion, Toyota, and Lexus badges everywhere with the same parts. They could not and are not able to maintain quality. No business can. You are only as good as the weakest link.

If you think about all the high end, high quality goods on the market, Porsche 911, Rolex, Waterford crystal, etc. production is limited to maintain quality. Anything grossly massed produced with so many parts as a car will have serious issues at some point.


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## EnterTheDragon (Sep 7, 2009)

NetSpySD said:


> If you think about all the high end, high quality goods on the market, *Porsche 911*, Rolex, Waterford crystal, etc. production is limited to maintain quality. Anything grossly massed produced with so many parts as a car will have serious issues at some point.


The 911 isn't a good example if you're trying to prove the point that rare vehicles are of higher quality. Any Lexus is more reliable than a 911 or most high-end cars like Astons and Ferraris. The price point and limited production have more to do with marketing than pursuit of quality.


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## nowonder (Dec 4, 2002)

And the problems keep piling up... Now Steve Wozniak (The other Steve who founded Apple Computer) has come out stating his Prius has a reproducible cruise control acceleration issue...

story here


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## etc (Jul 15, 2008)

johnnyg37 said:


> Great post... DO NOT BY TOYOTA DRIVING APPLIANCES!.......They are mass market junk, released to the US public with serious, sometimes fatal flaws. Not to mention the article positions the Toyota response as a quick fix in response to the problem. Toyota does not know what the issue is and I smell a cover up and a blame game starting.


That is true. I just dumped a Camry. Worse, they have a massive problem with the 4-cyl engine, head gaskets that is. It appears to have become more common as they hit 100K and more. Just read this:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/camry/148454-camry-with-stripped-head-bolts/



> I am a service center owner and technician of over 40 years in SC. Recently, a 2003 Camry LE w/ 70,000 miles came into my shop with a coolant leak. I consulted this forum and others to find proof of the same instance in the Toyota Camry. I write this in response to some posts I read on this site. This is to be informative for those in similar situations.
> 
> To do the exam, we pressurized the cooling system and put the car up on the lift. We immediately noticed coolant leaking from underneath the plastic INT intake Manifold in the rear of the engine. I also noticed a Large piece of foam rubber between the Intake Manifold and the Engine Block and Head. This was blocking our view of the leak. We could only see that the leak was behind the foam piece. The only option to discover the source of this leak was to remove the plastic intake manifold, which I did. After this was removed, it became obvious that coolant had been leaking a minor amount for quite some time due to build up between the cylinder head and block.
> 
> ...


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## jusmills (Nov 18, 2005)

EnterTheDragon said:


> The 911 isn't a good example if you're trying to prove the point that rare vehicles are of higher quality. Any Lexus is more reliable than a 911 or most high-end cars like Astons and Ferraris. The price point and limited production have more to do with marketing than pursuit of quality.


I'm not sure that I agree with your point. Porsche builds a good amount of cars (for the price point) and you do not see many issues with drive train components. The same is true of Ferrari. Part of the reason is that these cars are meticulously engineered, additionally if you look at the changes between evolutionary steps and the revolutionary ones the time frame is much longer, which generally means better planning more testing etc.

I'm sure that Toyota does a good amount of engineering, however to say that they put in the same amount of engineering time and/or effort in design of certain componentry as Porsche and Ferrari would probably be an overstatement. This is especially true when you look at the fact that Toyota had been cranking out significantly different models every 3-4 years you can see where the problem may lie. Another point worth noting is that while Toyota is responsible for the quality of their final product, they only have direct control over in-house developed items, the key is making sure that the supply chain maintains the final quality commitment.

While I am not Toyota fan, I think that their participation in the global market has definitely helped push quality (ironically) as well as helped to streamline how modern vehicles are produced.



> On CNBC today, the car guru (forget his name) was talking about what I predicted would happen a few years ago.
> 
> As IBM grew to become number one in the computer industry, incompetence, resting on one's laurels, etc. allowed Apple, Dell, HP, Microsoft, etc. to take over the PC industry.
> 
> ...


I agree with you on this...


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