# Did any of the BMW models NOT require def fluid / def system ? 2004-2015 ?



## amiart (Dec 23, 2021)

Did any of them NOT require def fluid / def system ?

Did any of them NOT require a DPF ? 

Any source for clearly explained years, makes , models and the various def requirements, dpf requirements etc ? 


I don't want an overly complicated vehicle and the more systems the more can go wrong 

Looking to get a new to me vehicle in the next few weeks, hoping for BMW, Benz, VW, Volvo but don't want to mess with the def fluids and getting locked out of my vehicle .


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## HotGrbg (Apr 23, 2021)

Isn’t DEF system/DPF a govt mandated emissions system that’s mandatory on all US diesel vehicles? I’m asking not making a statement.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

HotGrbg said:


> Isn’t DEF system/DPF a govt mandated emissions system that’s mandatory on all US diesel vehicles? I’m asking not making a statement.


Yes, since about 2007, finalized by EPA in 2010 for NOx reduction. But not DPF.

DPF was voluntarily developed since mid-Eighties and drove the change from low sulfur to Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel.

My 2003 VW TDI (ALH) had neither DPF nor DEF. Then came dieselgate.


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## ghpup (Nov 19, 2008)

Except for some rare 1980's perhaps 1990's diesels, BMW only sold diesels in the US/Canada from 2009 until 2018. All versions sold included DEF systems.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

ghpup said:


> Except for some rare 1980's perhaps 1990's diesels, BMW only sold diesels in the US/Canada from 2009 until 2018. All versions sold included DEF systems.


”The history of the BMW diesel engine began in 1979 with the foundation of the BMW engine plant in Steyr, where the first diesel engines rolled off the assembly line in 1983.”



https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/steyr/en/highlight/diesel-engine.html


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

HotGrbg said:


> Isn’t DEF system/DPF a govt mandated emissions system that’s mandatory on all US diesel vehicles? I’m asking not making a statement.



No. The government does not mandate that diesels have DPF's or DEF systems. They only mandate the manufacturers to hit a certain emissions limit and the manufacturers have to come up with a way to meet that limit. Case in point would be Cummins. Even after the 2007 and later 2010 emissions, they did not use a SCE/DEF system. Instead they used NOx absorption catalyst which allowed them to meet the 2010 emissions without needing DEF. They did not go to DEF until later in 2013 due to the carbon buildup that the NAC caused.

In my opinion and based on being in the diesel industry for so long, our diesel emissions regulations are way overboard. Emissions standards from other nations or up to 30x less stringent on NOx than the US is and it mostly has to do with California. In most places in the US, NOx is harmless because there is not enough of it in a given space and it dissipates into the upper atmosphere where it is actually good for the environment(since it is an ozone gas that is produced from all sorts of heat sources such as lightning and wildfires). The problem occurs when there is a lot of NOx in a given space without it being able to dissipate fast enough.

Southern California is perfect storm for this with it's very high population density, constant wildfires, hot temperatures, and it's location from the Rocky mountains. A lot of their NOx issues would not be as bad if they would just disperse the population, but they don't want to and the rest of the US has to pay for it through overly stringent NOx regulations because the EPA only thinks in one-size-fits-all approaches.

Here is a snip from a comparison performed by SAE showing just how stringent US diesel regulations are compared to the EU. Notice how our regulations allowed for much more CO (which is mainly from gasoline engines) that is more harmful to the environment yet are overly strict on NOx(which is mainly from diesel engines). Heck oven our fuel economy testing methods favor the highest mpg possible out of gasoline engines over diesel. It is like someone at the EPA has a hard on against diesels.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

VW met emissions regulations without using DEF.

Oh... wait... never mind. My bad.


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## lgr122 (Aug 8, 2012)

I don't have def system in my 2008 M57. Doesn't mean it's truly much worst than newer ones, cheating just wasn't used yet.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Starting in 1967, cars/trucks in the US began having pollution and fuel economy requirements that have added a LOT of complexity (and cost) to all cars. Avoiding that complexity means you have to stick to 1966 and earlier models.

If you want anything newer, say post 2007 (to pick a date out of the air), it's going to have a lot of complex systems. The least complex cars are going to be the cheapest models if for no other reason than those do not include the bells and whistles. If you want a diesel of that or later vintage, it is all but guaranteed to have DEF and DPF systems, as those have proven to be the best available at meeting the government mandates. I know of no makes/models that do not have them and use some other method of meeting the regs, except, of course, for the models that got VW in so much trouble. 

Certainly some of what is available is better than others. And I suspect that the newest models are the best of all if only because manufacturers have had time to work out the kinks. Into the bargain, they have also not used up so much of their projected life. Good luck finding something that fits your needs. Do swing by and let us know what you find, even it it isn't a BMW.


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