# ZF Tranny problems .... suggestions?



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: True...*



jderry said:


> *
> I disagree also with the 5th gear issue, there are MANY people with their warranty in effect, that dealerships have refused to replace the tranny. They see an aftermarket strut bar, k&n filter, UDP's, SSK, etc...and they point to those items as causing the problem. The 5th issue doesn't normally manifest itself to around 40K+ -- that seems to be the time symptoms will develop. *


Aftermarket strut bar? K&N? Good god. TMEs and SSKs I can understand; after all, these are directly related to the transmission, and while empirical evidence suggests that it happens to bone stock cars, too, I can see the rationale behind pointing to these things as contributing factors. UDPs are a bit of a stretch. But I think we all know that a K&N does nothing, and how stiffening the chassis could have *any* effect on the transmission is well beyond my understanding.

Some dealers are better than others, clearly.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Interesting discussion going on here.

Regarding warranty coverage, you're right that a dealer should NOT dismiss a claim on the transmission because of the existence of an X-brace or STB. I'd expect this from my old Pontiac dealer service manager (not my advisor, who was cool), but not from a service department with actual brains. If your BMW dealer is saying that your warranty on the trans is void because of something completely irrelevant, then you need to find a new dealer. Even a short shift kit should not cause the 5th gear stickiness issue. But I thought you were already out of warranty when your problems started?

But with the money shift, we're going to have to agree to disagree. In your chair analogy, I woud dismiss any claim if the owner used it in an inappropriate manner. Now, should chairs be intended for people to stand on them? Probably. But where do you draw the line? If I stand on a swiveling office chair to change a bulb, lose my balance and break my neck, should I sue the chair manufacturer? No way.

Getting back to the focus of the argument, BMW does in fact anticipate abuse of the trans and clutch. The car was designed and built to be driven very hard, and it generaly delivers on all points. But the money shift is NOT abuse, it's misuse - think of a 500-lb person sitting in a folding chair, vs. a 180-lb person standing on a swiveling chair. While you might think about suing in the first case, I'd laugh my ass all the way to "case dismissed" if I saw someone try to sue for the second.


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## jderry (Sep 24, 2002)

*True jetfire...*

Although, I could gather enough caselaw to survive a 12b6 motion, which then might make the case viable b/c a jury would decide.

Well, I was thinking about going to Sterling b/c I've heard great things about them. Fairfax ?? well, some have good luck, some bad.

True, my symptoms developed AFTER the warranty period. But, I have a 99, it's not like it happened a year later. Plus, I don't have a SSK. I DO have TME's though to, ironically, help prevent a money-shift...hehe. My shifter is OEM. That's my complaint, I mean, the symptoms were like, "wait, he's almost out of warranty, okay....NOW...he's out of warranty..."  ...

My posting re: other people under warranty, some dealerships have refused to do it. For whatever reasons, perhaps the person is an f-face to them, to young, has aftermarket parts, etc. I would be going postal if I was under warranty and they refused to help. I have an aftermarket warranty; but, I don't want AAMCO to touch my car...no offense to AAMCO employee's 

I trust bmw trained technicians, not AAMCO...I went in and spoke to the service manager at my local AAMCO, I asked him, have you ever worked on bmw's before, answer = yes. Have you ever worked on M3's before? Answer, yes, hundreds of them. Okay...what type of transmission problems have you seen with them, he starts of...well, with a six-spd configuration...blah blah...

yeah, I wish I had a six-spd...


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## umnitza (Oct 8, 2002)

BTW - I performed the money shift on my car while trying to avoid a wrecked "something" in the road. 3rd @ 6K went to 2nd.

I'd driven the car for over 45K miles, so I'm hardly a "new M3" owner.

Money shifts aren't endemic to the transmissions, stupid shifting will cause a money shift, I agree. However, the tranny design does lend itself more to it than others.

Some of the Nissan's that I'd driven simply would not let you engage any gear if the revs were higher than it could handle, it would just be locked out.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

umnitza said:


> *...snip...
> 
> Some of the Nissan's that I'd driven simply would not let you engage any gear if the revs were higher than it could handle, it would just be locked out. *


Hence *SOME* Nissan's aren't considered PERFORMANCE cars. Why let a car/transmission decide whether or not you CAN engage that gear? Might as well get an auto. Makes no sense to me. :dunno:

Lower trim BMWs lock out the first gear when the car is past a certain speed. M models have that "feature" removed.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

umnitza said:


> *
> Money shifts aren't endemic to the transmissions, stupid shifting will cause a money shift, I agree. However, the tranny design does lend itself more to it than others.
> 
> Some of the Nissan's that I'd driven simply would not let you engage any gear if the revs were higher than it could handle, it would just be locked out. *


That's pretty cool design on Nissan's part. But that's the first time I've heard of any manufacturer with that feature (not that I regularly look for it). So IMO, BMW shouldn't be held responsible for a missed shift, just because its design makes it easier to misshift than other designs.


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## umnitza (Oct 8, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> That's pretty cool design on Nissan's part. But that's the first time I've heard of any manufacturer with that feature (not that I regularly look for it). So IMO, BMW shouldn't be held responsible for a missed shift, just because its design makes it easier to misshift than other designs. *


I agree - even though I did it, I don't think it's a design issue that much, but they could have included detents past certain RPMS, but it's not BMW that is to blame, it's ZF.

I don't think it's a function of Nissan's design as much as the synchros probably were capable of it


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

It sounds like a spring issue in the tranny. Shouldn';t be terribly difficult to replace.


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## jderry (Sep 24, 2002)

*true bruce...*

But BMW is completely replacing them with NEW trannies. Also, AAMCO quoted me a price of $1900 and some change to fix the problem. So, it sounds like it is a little more than just a re-aligning of the gates and some new springs.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

DrBimmer said:


> *If you are looking for a recall, don't hold your breath. I have heard of this before, but it is far from being a common issue. BMW is not going to voluntarily start recalling cars to replace transmissions.
> *


James,

I hate to tell you this, but I am going to corroborate
the good doctor's prognosis in this matter...



My area of expertise is certainly sales, not service or
related issues...

This situation bears no resemblance to the other
mechanincal malfeasances described in this thread
(e.g. the V-8 engine snafu'). In my opinion, it
would take a class-action lawsuit to motivate
BMW to start replacing all of the potential
trannies effected this far down the road...


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