# Can someone comment on my deal?



## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

according to the May numbers Buy rate is .0022

it's a Eurodelivery:

'04 330ci
$42,720 msrp
$37,895 cap cost
.0022 MF
64% residual
36/12k

no downpayment = $467/month (everything included)

what do you guys think?
sounds pretty good to me

still negotiating.


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## mecklaiz (Mar 20, 2003)

You suck, that's a WAY better deal than I got.


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## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

sounds like a great deal


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*yep, i'm thinking it's a GOOD deal as of right now...*

i've heard ppl paying $500+/month (even on a 325)
AND the good thing is... i'm still negotiating!!! so it can only get better.


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## hts (Dec 19, 2001)

Best deal I've ever heard.


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*another positive comment like this...*

and i'll ignore the wife and close th deal!!!!

the price of the car WILL be negotiated down a few hundred more.

anyone think i can get better than .0022 ???
:dunno:


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

Not to familiar with leases, but I just got 3.9% for my 330 through BMWFS. That was the cheapest rate I found anywhere.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

That's a very, very good deal.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

How can you get a lease rate that low? :dunno: How much money are you putting down?


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*technically it's ZERO down...*

but there's 2 months upfront payment for ED
$188 lic & reg
$525 bank fee


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## GregD (Feb 5, 2003)

Don't forget MSDs (multiple security deposits) to lower the money factor further. Also, the money factor for a 330i is lower, but so's the residual, if you got a ZHP.


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## intempo (Feb 19, 2003)

Did you factor in the 7% ED discount into you the lease price? If you were buying the car you would see that discount at time of purchase, so I think you would want to consider it as an up front cost on the lease.


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## kyleschultz (May 29, 2003)

Based on the numbers you supplied...

Cap Cost = $37,895
Residual = $27,340.80 ($42,270 MSRP * 0.64)
Money Factor = 0.0022
Term = 36 months

I calculate the monthly payment to be $436.69. Something doesn't add up.


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*what r u taking about?*



intempo said:


> *Did you factor in the 7% ED discount into you the lease price? If you were buying the car you would see that discount at time of purchase, so I think you would want to consider it as an up front cost on the lease. *


i've never heard of 7% off

i'm using Euro invoice (wholesale) prices + $x (delear profit)


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

kyleschultz said:


> *Based on the numbers you supplied...
> 
> Cap Cost = $37,895
> Residual = $27,340.80 ($42,270 MSRP * 0.64)
> ...


btw- msrp is 42,470


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## kyleschultz (May 29, 2003)

That makes the payment $440.78. Still don't know where they're getting $467/month. Still a good deal but it would be nice to understand how all the pieces fit together. Good luck!


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## giddyup (Sep 6, 2002)

only problem with lease and euro delivery is that you have to have the lease started 60 days before your ED pick up date. so, by the time the car gets back here (another 6-8 weeks), you have already made 3-4 lease payments without access to the car (except for the part in europe).

since you don't own the car at the end of the lease, you're paying for 4 months worth of "use" of the car without actually using the car.

i thought about leasing when doing ED last year, and opted to buy instead. it was rough making 2 car payments without actually having the car, but atleast i was closer to owning it someday....

just my $0.02. good luck!

giddyup!


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*Kyle... you very persistent person...*

i got your spreadsheet and plugged in the numbers.
(i just got back from the dealership with $1k over invoice)

msrp is $42,470
cap cost is now $37,395

$525 lease acq & $188 lic & reg are paid in advance, so it's not included in the lease figures.

@6% tax...... it's comes out to $425.79/month

i hope you calculations are correct, cause that's the number i'll be expecting on the actual bill. 

pretty good huh?


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*i see...*



giddyup said:


> *only problem with lease and euro delivery is that you have to have the lease started 60 days before your ED pick up date. so, by the time the car gets back here (another 6-8 weeks), you have already made 3-4 lease payments without access to the car (except for the part in europe).
> 
> since you don't own the car at the end of the lease, you're paying for 4 months worth of "use" of the car without actually using the car.
> 
> ...


yeah i thought about that.
but, i always will have the option to buy the car at lease end.
who knows what will happen in 3 yrs? maybe the residual can be negoitiated.


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## kyleschultz (May 29, 2003)

$425.79 is what I calculate to the penny. Is that what the dealer quoted?


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

Two rules of thumb:
1. Lease depreciating assests
2. Buy appreciating assests

Translated: Lease a car and put the cash into real estate, where it can grow.

I agree that there are people, who lease cars they couldn't otherwise afford, but they still made a smart decision to lease rather than buy. Don't forget, a car is an expense not an investment! Most people don't seem to get that, including people on this board.


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*well put...*

funny how the 1st and 2nd most expensive item we buy are total opposites in terms of investments.

no moonroof?
i noticed your '04 is oddly optioned.


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

*Re: well put...*



KobeCow said:


> *funny how the 1st and 2nd most expensive item we buy are total opposites in terms of investments.
> 
> no moonroof?
> i noticed your '04 is oddly optioned.  *


That was to corner the dealer . Just kidding, although they did feel like I cornered them. Anyway, I consider a moonroof an expensive sun burn. It takes away head room and when you open it up on a sunny day, the sun freaking burns the hair of your head in minutes. I have black hair (at least the once that are left). What else do you think is odd about my options? I don't like the wood trim and the rain sensor and automatic headlights is standard on the 04, therefore no premium package. The only thing I miss is the auto dimming rear view mirror. Living in the Bay Area does not require a ski sack nor head light washers, but having heated seats is nice in the foggy summers. Did I forget anything?


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

PABS said:


> *I can't understand why people think paying $500/mo for something you are not going to own is a good deal. *


When you buy, you are paying that same $500/mo (depreciation) plus you're tieing up an additional ~$600/mo into an asset that doesn't give you any returns. If you were to lease and put that same $600/mo into something that had some sort of return there is no question that you would come out ahead. You have another advantage when leasing if you use the vehicle in a legitimate business and don't plan to keep the vehicle 7 years because you can write off the whole payment (or a portion if you aren't using it strictly as a business vehicle). Works for me.

:dunno:

As for those figures, that is a damn good deal.

--SONET


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

marcelgood said:


> *Two rules of thumb:
> 1. Lease depreciating assests
> 2. Buy appreciating assests
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

I should have read this post before I rambled on. Well said! :thumbup: Anything that takes more money out of your pocket than it puts in is ultimately an expense - including the house you live in IMHO.

--SONET


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

Hmm, this Cow dude supposedly has cut the best deal known to man but he continues to look for a dealer?

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e46/forum.php?postid=3408790&page=1

Can you say...

:bs: :jack:


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*"best deal known to man" ???*



rumatt said:


> *Hmm.. KobeCow.. What gives? *


what kinda line is that?
$1k over invoice is DEFINITELY NOT the best deal i or anyone has seen. right Rumatt? 

why should i have to explain myself?
just cause someone has a "deposit" down doesn't mean they can't shop around. if you think otherwise, then you're a bigger sucker than you think you are.

i assume that you guys know that a salesman/mgr will make every attempt to get you to sign & make a deposit once you're in the showroom. (only exception was when i bought my Audi)

fyi - the dealer has not called/e-mailed me once since last Thursday when i made my deposit. can you peeps explain that to me? :dunno:


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: "best deal known to man" ???*



KobeCow said:


> *what kinda line is that?
> $1k over invoice is DEFINITELY NOT the best deal i or anyone has seen. right Rumatt?
> 
> why should i have to explain myself?
> ...


The point is why even put a deposit down if you still want to shop around? Having to go through the hassle of getting it back would be enough for most to really make sure before putting the deposit down in the first place.

:dunno:

Also, on an ordered car most dealers will keep your deposit until the car you backed out on sells.


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: "best deal known to man" ???*



DougDogs said:


> *Maybe in other states, but there are laws protecting the consumer against this pratice in NJ. *


Believe it or not I kind of have to side with the dealers on this...some guy comes in, takes up a valuable production slot and specifies a car to his tastes...and puts down a deposit and then can walk with no repercussions?

I would be  if I was the dealer...

Wow...


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*DougDogs - you are right...*



DougDogs said:


> *Maybe in other states, but there are laws protecting the consumer against this pratice in NJ. *


i have had no problems in the past with getting my deposit back.
(BMW dealership)

why not let them fight for your business?:thumbup:


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: DougDogs - you are right...*



KobeCow said:


> *i have had no problems in the past with getting my deposit back.
> (BMW dealership)
> 
> why not let them fight for your business?:thumbup: *


I agree to a certain point but potentially screwing up their production slots before really doing your homework and then shopping around some more seems a little unethical.

I have no problems with anyone playing this game WITHOUT putting deposits down. I don't blame dealers for having rules like they have out here where you get the deposit back when the car you specified sells.

Then again maybe I'm missing the boat and the dealers back east are used to this treatment and don't really care?


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*greginaz1...OMG*



greginaz1 said:


> *Believe it or not I kind of have to side with the dealers on this...some guy comes in, takes up a valuable production slot and specifies a car to his tastes...and puts down a deposit and then can walk with no repercussions?
> 
> I would be  if I was the dealer...
> 
> Wow... *


i'm pulling my hair out!

1- i'm doing E-U-R-O-D-E-L-I-V-E-R-Y !!! it doesn't affect their allotment.

2- they never called/e-mailed for four days. so i don't have any updates.


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*WoW...*



greginaz1 said:


> *I agree to a certain point but potentially screwing up their production slots before really doing your homework and then shopping around some more seems a little unethical.
> 
> I have no problems with anyone playing this game WITHOUT putting deposits down. I don't blame dealers for having rules like they have out here where you get the deposit back when the car you specified sells.
> 
> Then again maybe I'm missing the boat and the dealers back east are used to this treatment and don't really care? *


you guys from the West coast should TRY to visit a dealer (dealers in general) here in NYC (Brooklyn, Queens & Manhattan)
Especially the ones on Brooklyn, it will absolutely BLOW your mind to see the kind of treatment they give to their "potential" customers. this is based on personal experience and many friends/ppl's experiences.

here's just 2 brief ex.:

Honda dealer - we walk in. sales ignores us for 10-15min. when we asked for help, they asked how much $ we make! couple questions exchanged & they walk away from you.

BMW dealer - we walk in. salesman we were looking for wasn't in, so someone else "helped". offered msrp and couple hundred off and said something like: take it or leave it, no negotiating, we don't have to sell these, they sell themselves.

i have no idea how it's like on the West coast, maybe they're all like Jon Shafer/Cutter.


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

Good post rumatt...and I was indeed accusational...I'm a sales guy too (not cars!) and I really like to believe in the ethics of "A deal is a deal." I could be in "Candyland" though...


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

Actually I thought some more on this and maybe I'm a slight hypocrite too...I cut a deal and put a deposit down but continued to negotiate the financing aspects after finding out the 'real' rates...though in my case it was still with the original dealer...I felt this was OK because I was not originally told the complete truth...if more dealers just operated on facts and told you exactly what they needed to make on a car it would all be easier...as I'm all for fair dealer profits...


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*Re: Re: "best deal known to man" ???*

Matt,

do you think the sales guy really gave a cr*p about your referral? honestly, let me know if you get anything out of it. like i said b4, he said you were buying a 325 and used it to his advantage while we were negotiating.

if you've gone thru the buying experience many times, you will see all types of sales ppl. it's truly unbelieveable what they do to customers.

Seriously, in what way do you think a dealer can really be screwed? they all all networked and IF they have a car that a customer canceled, you think they will have a problem selling it?

in my case, i sat down with a un-knowledgible CA and i supplied all the info then he filled out the sale receipt. i didn't get a production/VIN number or ETA on anything.

on the other hand, when i got my Audi, it was a total perfect experience. salesman was extremely knowlegible, absolute Zero sales pitch, NO deposit, no receipt, checked inventory on paper and PC right in front of me, followed up with my cell & work phone and transported the car w/o me putting a deposit.


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## KobeCow (Jun 6, 2003)

*yep...*



greginaz1 said:


> *Actually I thought some more on this and maybe I'm a slight hypocrite too...I cut a deal and put a deposit down but continued to negotiate the financing aspects after finding out the 'real' rates...though in my case it was still with the original dealer...I felt this was OK because I was not originally told the complete truth...if more dealers just operated on facts and told you exactly what they needed to make on a car it would all be easier...as I'm all for fair dealer profits... *


that's what happened to me once before. They will tell you X.XX%
and when you see the paper work.... surprise!!!!! it's much higher. ofcourse, they are prepared to give you a "story."

another time, they "forgot" to include my deposit in the finance papers.

They play all kinds of games to drain you of your cash, it's up to you to spot it.

like i said before, again, if only all dealers were like [email protected] and TedW in upstate NY


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