# Infuriating Pulse/Vibration on Steering Wheel and road noise above 55



## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

2020 M240i 6MT 
Ive been having this issue for months now and for the life of me I cannot figure it out and neither can any tech. 

When driving down the highway between 57-63 mph I would get this weird pulse in the steering wheel and depending on the road I would hear it sometimes and it would usually go away above that speed. At first I had several road force balances and alignments done at 2 different dealers and nothing would solve the issue.

Eventually, a new dealer told me all four rims are bent. They charged me $850 to unbend them and still nothing. Took it to another and they told me the two front rims were bent and wanted me to replace them and the rear two were unbalanced. They quoted me $2700 for labor, wheels, balancing, alignment, etc. I opted out of this option. 

I decided to purchase aftermarket rims, the TA5R’s from BimmerWorld. These were an inch wider than stock so I purchased four new tires as well (Michelin Pilot Sport 4’s 235/40/R18). A performance shop mounted them along with a road force balance and alignment. Same issue persists, tech’s didn’t see the issue i was talking about even after they completed their work. A couple days later I embark on a 1300 mile drive up to New York and the issue gets worse. I start noticing this weird pulsing even cruising at 80 mph. When my arm is resting on the top of the door card I feel it in my arm as well. Sometimes the seats and floorboards vibrate as well

I do not get the vibration when braking and the wheel does not shake so I do not believe it is a warped rotor 

I am genuinely at a loss about what to do here and I just want to enjoy driving my car again.


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## NC Twisties (Dec 19, 2020)

Sounds kinda like the lane departure warning to me....slight shiver in the steering wheel, rumble in floorboards, slight sound.


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

NC Twisties said:


> Sounds kinda like the lane departure warning to me....slight shiver in the steering wheel, rumble in floorboards, slight sound.


It’s not a noticeable shiver. I feel it in my hands, you can’t really see the wheel shutter. And the system is never active.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Does braking have any impact? Specifically just light braking at around those speeds?


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

ard said:


> Does braking have any impact? Specifically just light braking at around those speeds?


Negative. Breaking feels fine


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

Check driveshaft.


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

NytWolf said:


> Check driveshaft.


Would the driveshaft really effect what I’m feeling in the steering wheel?


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## M_Bimmer (Dec 14, 2019)

This is NOT the OP's solution, but back in the day, the E46 had the exact issue, and it was found that the two bolts holding the rack-and-pinion assembly to the cross member frame were loose from the factory.

Can't wait to here what this issue is with the OP's vehicle......


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

M_Bimmer said:


> This is NOT the OP's solution, but back in the day, the E46 had the exact issue, and it was found that the two bolts holding the rack-and-pinion assembly to the cross member frame were loose from the factory.
> 
> Can't wait to here what this issue is with the OP's vehicle......


Can you describe the issue in your own words. Sometimes I feel I don’t describe it accurately because nobody can actually diagnose it


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

Vincef22 said:


> Would the driveshaft really effect what I’m feeling in the steering wheel?


You did say you can feel it in the door, seats, and floorboard. Usually any vibrations that occur only between 60MPH -/+ 5MPH is related to rotational components in the drivetrain after the transmission to the tires. You've already swapped out the wheels and tires and you're adamant it's not the brakes. The next logical thing is an imbalance in the driveshaft or a component thereof. Your car is a 2020, so while I find it odd that I'm suggesting a driveshaft, only you would know if there were any damage sustained since new.


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## M_Bimmer (Dec 14, 2019)

Hi OP, not sure I can do as you ask....as everyone's "meaning" for a given word, means slightly different.....

For example: You mention pulse....this means that there is a discrete "on", and discrete "off", with nothing in between. Is this what you mean? This was interpreted as a pulse of vibration felt with a periodicity. I ignored "weird".

You stated your heard something at a certain speed....I ignored this too. You never described what you heard.

BUT if you feel it in your steering wheel AND the floor boards, there is something between your front suspension, and the chassis that is loose that is amplified (a natural harmonic) at 60 MPH which is ironically (or maybe not) coincidently where a lot of other's feel vibration that isn't felt below or above that speed.

If a bushing is broken, typically it's doesn't "pulse", and occurs constantly and repeatability once the variables are right (including temperature)....which you didn't mention any temperature dependencies.

Under load, if two pieces of metal tend to overcome their coefficient of friction (slip), the slips tend to be "pulsed"....so in the E46 "un-torqued", but tight rack, it would slip with a pulsed "feeling" in the steering wheel at a particular speed.

But I also said that this is NOT your issue....Cheers


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## M_Bimmer (Dec 14, 2019)

I can think of a lot of items in your front suspension and drivetrain that could be culprits, but that list would be long and overwhelming. We can use this thread to list a few if you are willing, but it's going to be painful....

BUT are you out of dealership options? You paid for a new car, you should exercise your warranty to the maximum extent possible.....words on a forum can only take you so far....


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

M_Bimmer said:


> Hi OP, not sure I can do as you ask....as everyone's "meaning" for a given word, means slightly different.....
> 
> For example: You mention pulse....this means that there is a discrete "on", and discrete "off", with nothing in between. Is this what you mean? This was interpreted as a pulse of vibration felt with a periodicity. I ignored "weird".
> 
> ...


Thanks for the lengthy response. First of all, I do not believe temperature is a variable here. I began my drive recently from Miami (roughly 70 degrees) and arrived in New York the following day (about 30 at the time) and the issue was quite undoubtedly the same. The roads did get worse obviously so I did naturally feel more vibrations from the uneven pavement but the issue, the “pulse”, is in addition to any natural road vibrations. The best way I can describe the “pulse” is as follows: imagine you’re driving down the highway, you feel the road and it’s vibrations, nothing out of the ordinary-all of the sudden as your speed up you feel a sensation in the steering wheel similar to a cats purr if you put your hand on their stomach. It has the same consistency to it. It comes in 1 second intervals beginning at exactly 56-57 mph and at this point it has progressed all the way up to speeds that will get you arrested. Previously as I stated it was only in the 57-63 range. Also, from time to time if the road is smooth enough you will be able to hear it very faintly; same thing, similar to a cats purr.


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

M_Bimmer said:


> I can think of a lot of items in your front suspension and drivetrain that could be culprits, but that list would be long and overwhelming. We can use this thread to list a few if you are willing, but it's going to be painful....
> 
> BUT are you out of dealership options? You paid for a new car, you should exercise your warranty to the maximum extent possible.....words on a forum can only take you so far....


I travel often. Everytime I start somewhere new at a dealership they can never complete their inspection or simply don’t want to do anything. I’m currently settled for the next 3-4 months so I’ll be starting at a new dealer again. I wouldn’t mind you listing everything you believe to be the culprit. Currently as I stated, wheels and tires are out of the equation. Everything else should be under warranty assuming a dealer doesn’t give me sh*t for having aftermarket rims


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## M_Bimmer (Dec 14, 2019)

Just out of curiosity, your alignment is spot on then.....

And you've checked that all of your underbelly panels are fully secured, and that that as far as you are concerned, there is no damage to any part of the underside?

...and you don't RTFs, right?

Let's say you got up to 70MPH (Please do not get a ticket), then disengaged the MT (neutral), as you coast down past 60MPH, what do you feel and hear?

Where do you hear the "purring"? Front low, Front high, left low, right low, just in front of you, everywhere (no direction - omni-present), behind you, just below you?

If you tighten your grip, does it subside or the "amount" of vibe remains the same? Is the vibration "amplitude" the same on the steering wheel as it on the door armrest, as the same on the center console?

You could also, have someone sit in the back left seat, then back right seat, then front seat.....or better yet, let someone else cruise at 60MPH, and you sit in the passenger seat, then the rear seats....

You willing to try and report back?


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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

M_Bimmer said:


> Just out of curiosity, your alignment is spot on then.....
> 
> And you've checked that all of your underbelly panels are fully secured, and that that as far as you are concerned, there is no damage to any part of the underside?
> 
> ...


During the last alignment im not sure how in depth they went when securing the entire underbelly. 

Second, yes, non run flats 

Third, when I throw the car in neutral I still feel the same sensation.

fourth, I hear the “purring” in the mid left by the door card. I cannot determine whether it’s in the front or back. I should also note, this may or May not matter, but since I got the car about a year ago, whenever I get out of the car, the rear left squeaks when I hop out. It’s done that for the longest time. I believe longer than I’ve been having this issue.

fifth, me tightening the grip does not subside it. I still feel it the same and maybe even more. Didn’t really notice it in the Center console, mostly when I rest my elbow on the top of the door card where the bottom of the window starts. I don’t usually use the actual door armrest.

lastly, I’ve tried sitting in different positions in the car and i don’t feel much. It is primarily the steering wheel. Nothing else bothers me too much to be honest it’s the steering wheel “purr” that drives me crazy. Obviously if im feeling it in other places they’re probably related.


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

First off, vibrations have nothing to do with alignment.

Second, if tightening your grip has made any vibration go away, I'd like to know about it, especially a vibration that is harmonic.

Anyhow, it could very well be a wheel bearing in its early stages of failure.


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## M_Bimmer (Dec 14, 2019)

So we'll end with this for now....

You don't have X-drive
You are sure it's not the driver assistance systems 'lane departure warning' and 'lane change warning'
And you have an electric power steering rack and pinion, which by the way exhibits some peculiar behavior that BMW has tried to address with software, and with some hardware revisions....and the one for your vehicle (and used in other vehicles) has undergone quite a few hardware revisions, Item 1 below was revised 17 times, and Item 12 was revised 15 times.

Maybe with your new dealer, who will be able to access all the work from the past history done by other BMW dealerships, you can ask them if they can perform any test tests specific to the rack-n-pinion. From the TIS, there are at least two that they can do....I wouldn't walk in and demand them, nor start out with "I learned from a BMW forum....." as this will most likely result in less than favorable results/response from the SA.

Cheers










*AM3202_00548 - Steering malfunction - steering wheel vibration, vibration
AM3202_00241 - Steering malfunction - steering wheel vibration, vibration*

Brief description of the test module for non-electrical diagnosis:

Steering malfunction – steering wheel vibration, vibration

Applies to:

E89, F01, F02, F03, F04, F06, F07, F10, F11, F12, F13, F15, F16, F18, F20, F21, F22, F23, F25, F26, F30, F31, F32, F33, F34, F35, F36, G01, G02, G05, G07, G08, G11, G12, G30, G31, G32

Market: (only USA)

Content (excerpt):

Oscillations and vibrations in the area of the steering wheel
Vehicle communication: No

ISTA path:

Activities / Information search / NED / 02 Chassis / 02 Malfunction / Steering malfunction - steering wheel shake, vibration

Important note:

The fault patterns in the test module depend to some extent on the production period, optional equipment, motorisation and other features. It is therefore possible that not all content or different content to that described above may be displayed for different vehicles.


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

There’s a 2$ vibration analysis app for apple. Hold you phone to the wheel or door, and record for 20 seconds. Pinning the exact vibration to an exact speed, in combination with engine rmp, gear ratios, differential ratio and tyre circumference, you may be able to pin it to a driveline component. Probably wheel or driveshaft in your case, since you said in N (rpm dropping, road speed the same) its also there. Maybe that helps. 

A squeak could indicate a suspension component with bushing tightened in the wrong position. You could consider loosening some bushing suspension components and tightening them again in the proper, loaded position, with the (calibrated) weight of the car on it, not with wheels freely dangling. 


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## M_Bimmer (Dec 14, 2019)

deroy said:


> A squeak could indicate a suspension component with bushing tightened in the wrong position. You could consider loosening some bushing suspension components and tightening them again in the proper, loaded position, with the (calibrated) weight of the car on it, not with wheels freely dangling.


True, but the OP's car is still under warranty. He is going to use a new dealership....a suspension issue or noise is easier done by the Dealership..IMHO.



deroy said:


> There’s a 2$ vibration analysis app for apple.


I do like the idea of the App....[thinking] _Does the phone MEMS accelerometer or gyro have that level of accuracy? And maybe Deroy could post data captures from this App...hmm _[/thinking]


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

80 km/h on the satnav, 83kmh on the speedometer. 
6th gear

After some maths;
W = wheel frequency
C = crankshaft (rpm)
P = propshaft. My diff is 3.91, so very close to W4

App by Dmitiy Kharutskiy

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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

NytWolf said:


> First off, vibrations have nothing to do with alignment.
> 
> Second, if tightening your grip has made any vibration go away, I'd like to know about it, especially a vibration that is harmonic.
> 
> Anyhow, it could very well be a wheel bearing in its early stages of failure.


Vibration does not go away when tightening my grip. Also if it was a wheel bearing would I hear a constant noise? The noise and “pulse” come in 1 second intervals.


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

NytWolf said:


> First off, vibrations have nothing to do with alignment.
> 
> Second,* if *tightening your grip has made *any* vibration go away, I'd like to know about it, especially a vibration that is harmonic.
> 
> Anyhow, it could very well be a wheel bearing in its early stages of failure.





Vincef22 said:


> Vibration does not go away when tightening my grip. Also if it was a wheel bearing would I hear a constant noise? The noise and “pulse” come in 1 second intervals.


Emphasis mine.


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

Like a 1 second woowoowoo? Could be two vibrations interfering. Droning. 

Wheel bearings typically are audible noise 100s of Hz; lots of bearing balls (needles?) passing lots of rough spots per wheel revolution. Ie not vibrations one can feel but not hear. 

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## Vincef22 (Jan 24, 2021)

deroy said:


> Like a 1 second woowoowoo? Could be two vibrations interfering. Droning.
> 
> Wheel bearings typically are audible noise 100s of Hz; lots of bearing balls (needles?) passing lots of rough spots per wheel revolution. Ie not vibrations one can feel but not hear.
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk


It sounds like “vrooo, vrooo, vrooo” every other second


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

I feel your pain. I have a similar mild vrooooo vrooooo (few seconds) i have not been able to pin, let alone fix, after more than a year. Hence my detailed frequency analysis. 


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

Vibrations are difficult to pinpoint; that's why manufacturers don't warranty against it. While it's easy to guess what it is, it's often easier to rule out what it isn't. Based on the information given and the advice presented, there isn't much left to check. Like I said in a previous post, it will be somewhere after your transmission. It will be from driveshaft out to your tires and everything in between. How difficult is that to comprehend? Based on OP's original description of approximately 60MPH, it is due to a harmonic imbalance of a part that spins or rotates, again, after the transmission.

A grinding wheel bearing will cause a constant roughness or noise, and will increase as speeds increase. That's not what I'm talking about. An slightly out-of-tolerance wheel bearing housing will wobble and cause harmonic vibrations and won't necessarily give you the noise.

All said, the car is under warranty, and instead of us going back and forth with ideas, OP just needs to take the information and take the car to the dealer.


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

NytWolf said:


> . An slightly out-of-tolerance wheel bearing housing will wobble and cause harmonic vibrations and won't necessarily give you the noise.


Interesting. Is it possible to diagnose that on a lift or my driveway? 


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

NytWolf said:


> Vibrations are difficult to pinpoint; that's why manufacturers don't warranty against it.


Thats news to the automotive world


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Deroy has the correct approach.

Energy is being driven into the car. At a specific speed (aka frequency) this is 'striking a chord' (aka hitting a resonance). The idea that two frequencies are 'beating' is interesting. OP, if you hold the transmission in different gears does it stay at that SPEED? Or does it move? (Which would indicate it is drivetrain/engine/trans related as opposed to wheel/suspension.

FWIW


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

deroy said:


> View attachment 1021640
> 
> 80 km/h on the satnav, 83kmh on the speedometer.
> 6th gear
> ...


One of my favorites. ‎Vibration analysis

Among my trivial training (according to NTYwolf) was bearing failure analysis and sound analysis, $#!tty little adjunct USN jobs.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

ard said:


> Thats news to the automotive world


NYTwolf is full of ”news to the automotive world”. Maybe he is their car-talk editor?

Remember Clique and Claque, the Racket Brothers?


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

ard said:


> Thats news to the automotive world


Sure. Try to complain that your car rattles and see what they say. If it comes down to a defective part, then sure. It's the defective part. But if your door rattles or your third brake light housing rattles, good luck.



Doug Huffman said:


> NYTwolf is full of ”news to the automotive world”. Maybe he is their car-talk editor?
> 
> Remember Clique and Claque, the Racket Brothers?


Touche.

You mean like Ard and Doug? 😉 Amusing.

Sure, your vibration analyzer is going to really help OP pinpoint his vibration. /sarcasm I don't have the professional training of omnisciense, but I know that 9 out of 10 times, a vibration that occurs at 60MPH is related to the driveline. And that doesn't take a rocket scientist, err... nuclear engineer to figure out.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

NytWolf said:


> Touche.
> 
> You mean like Ard and Doug? Amusing.


ARD is good company to stand with.


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

Doug Huffman said:


> ARD is good company to stand with.


I'm sure he is. I value his knowledge AND YOURS, but to come off like you and he recently, I don't think is the right way to show our fellow forum members. Ard seems to come off as an elitist and you come off as a brainiac who speaks at 50k feet. Nothing wrong with both of you; it's just that people who post want and deserve a direct answer.

I've posted questions and you answered one of them. I've yet to get any other assistance but I have hope.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

“Better right than nice.”. (Guess who said that?). S

ometimes there are no “direct answers.”. To suggest that there always are direct answers is disingenuous.


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

Doug Huffman said:


> “Better right than nice.”. (Guess who said that?). S
> 
> ometimes there are no “direct answers.”. To suggest that there always are direct answers is disingenuous.


LOL. I'll drink to that. Please allow me to rephrase -- "a response that will lead to a solution where there is not an apparent one".


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

Doug Huffman said:


> One of my favorites. ‎Vibration analysis
> 
> Among my trivial training (according to NTYwolf) was bearing failure analysis and sound analysis, $#!tty little adjunct USN jobs.


So enlighten us with your diagnostic skills please; how can OP (and myself) eliminate a bearing as the issue?


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## deroy (Jun 27, 2017)

Bump

Neither Doug nor NytWolf has elaborated on actual bearing diagnosis. Is it the classical ‘rock the wheel’ at 6-12 and 3-9? Or you have some more advanced yet practical ideas?


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## NytWolf (Mar 25, 2020)

deroy said:


> Bump
> 
> Neither Doug nor NytWolf has elaborated on actual bearing diagnosis. Is it the classical ‘rock the wheel’ at 6-12 and 3-9? Or you have some more advanced yet practical ideas?
> 
> ...


I've already given my most practical idea in post 27 and was first mentioned in post 20. OP could take all the suggestions given and talk to the dealer.


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