# The End of the Road for BMWNA Diesel CARS?



## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

Inside line (edmunds) just put up this article talking about BMW making a F10/F30 hybrid cars. I don't see BMW also making a diesel variant with the crappy hybrid. Has BMWNA given up on diesel cars already? (I'm pretty sure the X5d will continue for now)


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## lalitkanteti (Nov 15, 2009)

Article talks about new vehicles to be launched worldwide not specifically to US. 
Efficient BMW Diesels have been in market for over 3-4 yrs. They are huge success in EU and x5d is successful in US(30% of x5 sales). I feel 335d is also picking up mainly due to Eco Credit. Dont know if they are extending it or not. Sales nos have gone up pretty well. And similar fuel prices have got many i owners move to d. And with other auto makers introducing different diesel models(A3, GTI, possible E class), I think 335d is here to stay. I remember people looking down upon me year ago when I said I want diesel and now many of them are actually considering it as option. I also remember BMW/Audi/MB saying its gonna be tough to change Americans mindset but we will give time and now when its changing it would be foolish to pull out.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I do not see why a hybrid would make diesels go away. I guess it boils down to why someone buys a car, I buy diesels for my reasons and I do not buy hybrids for my reasons. Both sets of reasons are vastly different from one another.


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## sdbrandon (Mar 18, 2006)

BMW's diesels suck.

Most people who buy a passenger car want a diesel for high MPG. i.e. 50MPG+

So VW does well in this regard.

BMW's diesels are a X5d, 335d in the U.S. Their MPG is only slightly better than a gas engine. This is their mistake.

The need 118d, 318d, etc. Not gas hogs with crappy diesel engines.

If BMW does not change, they will not be able to sell cars in the U.S.

So I predict, front wheel drive and small diesel engines.

Hybrids are just more complexity with little benefit.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

BMWNA has indicated that we will see 2 new diesel models in the US in the next year. I will bet that the new 5-series is one of the models, and perhaps the new X3 is the other. Or, BMW might switch course a bit and come out with a 4-cylinder diesel-powered 3-series that could offer 328i-like performance with 40+ mpg. I think a 320d is a good possibility for the US, but not sure if we'll get it in the E90 or if they'd wait for the next generation.

With the new CAFE standards, I think we will see BMW make use of several different diesel AND hybrid offerings in the US to bring their fleet average higher. We will also get 4-cylinder gas engines starting next year (this has been confirmed by the CEO of BMWNA).


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

sdbrandon said:


> BMW's diesels suck.
> 
> BMW's diesels are a X5d, 335d in the U.S. Their MPG is only slightly better than a gas engine. This is their mistake.


People have been buying Mercedes diesels in the states for many years now and none of those I would say were super great in the mpg department like the VW counterparts. I'd be curious to see what the reasons are for most people who buy diesels and not just people new to them in recent years. I know in recent years sales of VW diesels picked up because of the fuel economy and higher pump prices. But what is "slightly better than a gas engine" equate too? I never have driven a 335i to compare fuel economy too but have driven the 328i for a few thousand miles and it was 4-6mpg less in economy and I'd think a 335i is worse than a 328i on fuel.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

The 5 series has been confirmed: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455756


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## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

sdbrandon said:


> BMW's diesels suck.
> 
> Most people who buy a passenger car want a diesel for high MPG. i.e. 50MPG+
> 
> ...


36 MPG in a 6 sec 0-60 car is nothing to sneeze at. I rented a 2009 Prius as a DD for a couple of days just to see if I can tolerate it in my commute and only got 39 MPG on a 90% highway drive. I hated the hybrid powertrain in that POS.

The idea of importing the 335d was conceived prior to Obama moving up CAFE. They also did not want to federalize 2 different diesel engines at the same time. The X5d get's V8 power at the same mileage as a gutless 4 banger mini SUV's like the CR-V.


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

sdbrandon said:


> BMW's diesels suck.
> 
> Most people who buy a passenger car want a diesel for high MPG. i.e. 50MPG+
> 
> ...


I kind of want to smack you down for the obvious inaccuracies in this, but I'm just going to laugh at you and go on with my day.


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## lalitkanteti (Nov 15, 2009)

sdbrandon said:


> BMW's diesels suck.
> 
> Most people who buy a passenger car want a diesel for high MPG. i.e. 50MPG+
> 
> ...


Ignorance is bliss:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

If its true about 5 series diesel(hopefully with 35d engine) coming to US then I am sure he will be in line to get one of those when he realizes they are far more better than his 550 in terms of performance, efficiency and longevity


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

BMW has already confirmed to me that we will see a diesel-powered 5er Reihe in the U.S. The conversation was in the context of the 530d I just spent a week driving and I suspect that this is the car we will see.


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## RoBMWED (Aug 3, 2007)

*Well done, Jonathan !*

It's about time that BMWNA listened to you about the 535d ! Oops, I mean the 530d.


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## RoBMWED (Aug 3, 2007)

*I salute you, sdbrandon !*



sdbrandon said:


> BMW's diesels suck.
> 
> I can't express my gratitude enough. I had no idea that the car that I have been driving for over 10,000 miles, including the German, Italian, Liechtenstein, Austrian, and Swiss autobahns at 138 mph with a top speed of 155, and getting 40+ mpg at various times with better emissions than ANY BMW engine currently imported in the US, with all of the same incredible BMW innovations, and ridiculously comfortable seating, etc., etc. was powered by such a crappy engine.
> 
> ...


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## Tuce (Nov 24, 2009)

JSpira said:


> BMW has already confirmed to me that we will see a diesel-powered 5er Reihe in the U.S. The conversation was in the context of the 530d I just spent a week driving and I suspect that this is the car we will see.


Jonathan - Will the 530d come with the same 35d engine we have in the 335d and X5d? Or will it be the slightly less powerful (but more efficient) single turbo variation?


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## tcfila (Oct 22, 2009)

I was going to jump on the bandwagon and call him an idiot...but all you guys beat me to it. Thanks!


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Tuce said:


> Jonathan - Will the 530d come with the same 35d engine we have in the 335d and X5d? Or will it be the slightly less powerful (but more efficient) single turbo variation?


The difference between the -30d and -35d is just that, for the most part: 1 turbo vs 2.
I'd prefer the -30d (either 3 or 5 series) for better efficiency and *theoretically* better reliability.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

RoBMWED said:


> with better emissions than ANY BMW engine currently imported in the US,


And better fuel economy than ANY car ever imported by BMW of North America


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Tuce said:


> Jonathan - Will the 530d come with the same 35d engine we have in the 335d and X5d? Or will it be the slightly less powerful (but more efficient) single turbo variation?


The latter. :thumbup:


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## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

Just my 4 cents worth having read thru this thread:

I recently got to (had to?) drive a rental Prius when I traveled to my son's wedding. I averaged ~52 mpg in about 600 miles of highway driving ... but that was the only thing impressive about the car. (Talk to me again if gas hits $10 a gallon.)

A 335d at 36 mpg highway is getting about 28% better mileage than I get currently ... to get that improvement in a like equipped and performing vehicle -- now that is impressive!


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

JSpira said:


> The latter. :thumbup:


Are you saying the 5 series diesel will have less power than 335d?

Any idea on when? before Jan 2011?


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## Marine5302 (Sep 13, 2009)

I just took an overnite trip from Philly to Quantico and back where I averaged 38.2 MPG at 77.2 average MPH. Like Rob, I didn't realize I bought such a crappy auto.  :rofl::rofl:


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## Dennis328i (Apr 5, 2007)

RoBMWED said:


> sdbrandon said:
> 
> 
> > BMW's diesels suck.
> ...


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

No but the mechanics at the VW will actually know how to work on diesels due to experience with them


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

sdbrandon said:


> BMW's diesels suck.


This being the only diesel I've ever owned (or driven) I can only speak for *it*...but "sucks" is one word I wouldn't use to describe it.Given that highway driving is 90% of my driving the 42MPG that I easily and consistently get there is just fine with me...thank you very much.Add to that the effortless (and *beastly*) power it posesses and I'm convinced that I have a winner here.My next car (in 5 years or so) will almost certainly be a diesel but it's likely to be a 4 cylinder...BMW....VW....Audi....who knows!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

That power you enjoy will be vastly different in a four cylinder.


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## RoBMWED (Aug 3, 2007)

*Snipe656 !*

You know, every post you make about how bad your 335d has been treated by techs, dealers, or the original factory production is frustrating. Seems like you have been the only one to have to suffer like that. Although that is a very high percentage of success, it is tough to hear the problems that you have had to endure.

Of course, there is no real consolation the rest of our diesel community can give to you, I hope that you will someday soon get to enjoy all of the excitement that we have been living.

Hang in there !


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> That power you enjoy will be vastly different in a four cylinder.


Assuming that you're responding to me...that's understood.Unlike many (most?) BMW ownners I'm a very "sedate" driver.I'm enjoying my "d' immensely for many different reasons...including the power.But,for example,if I had known that Audi was coming out with their diesel A3 when I bought my "d" I probably would have waited for *it*.I'm very willing to trade some power (which I seldom use) and a certain amount of "luxury" for an extra 5 MPG and a sticker that's $15K-$20K lower.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I was all for checking out that A3 until I found out it only came in FWD so I dismissed it without even going to the dealer. After seeing some driving around, it much like my 335d are both just too small of cars for my needs.


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## innovativeit (Sep 30, 2007)

Snipe656 said:


> _I was all for checking out that A3 until I found out it only came in FWD_ so I dismissed it without even going to the dealer. After seeing some driving around, it much like my 335d are both just too small of cars for my needs.


According to the Audi website, the A3 can be configured as fwd or awd.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

innovativeit said:


> According to the Audi website, the A3 can be configured as fwd or awd.


Not with the diesel, according to Audi's website back in October and all the press releases for the diesel A3.


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## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

innovativeit said:


> According to the Audi website, the A3 can be configured as fwd or awd.


Not with a diesel - have to get the gasoline 2.0T to have AWD in the A3.

Frankly, I love BMW, but we are likely to purchase an A3 TDI in the near future mostly because it has the configuration we wanted (wagon/hatchback and FWD or AWD) that we wanted for winter driving and utility. It's a shame that BMW did not choose to offer the diesel in AWD - seems like it would have been a perfect match. (And wagons seem to be on the way out....)

I'm also not a huge fan of the urea tank -- which the A3 does not have.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

jkp1187 said:


> Not with a diesel - have to get the gasoline 2.0T to have AWD in the A3.
> 
> Frankly, I love BMW, but we are likely to purchase an A3 TDI in the near future mostly because it has the configuration we wanted (wagon/hatchback and FWD or AWD) that we wanted for winter driving and utility. It's a shame that BMW did not choose to offer the diesel in AWD - seems like it would have been a perfect match. (And wagons seem to be on the way out....)
> 
> I'm also not a huge fan of the urea tank -- which the A3 does not have.


The A3 and 3er Series aren't really comparable models but I will add that BMW does offer some Touring models with diesel - and AWD (320d xDrive and 330d xDrive).

Since BMW doesn't seem to see a future for the Touring models in the U.S., I doubt we'll see them.

I liked the A3 by the way - see my review:

Audi A3 2.0 TDI 
1 February 2010
 
The diesel invasion from Germany continues with the Audi A3 TDI. Audi started its clean diesel lineup in the States last spring with the big Q7 TDI that is now joined by the compact A3 &#8230;


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## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

JSpira said:


> The A3 and 3er Series aren't really comparable models but I will add that BMW does offer some Touring models with diesel - and AWD (320d xDrive and 330d xDrive).
> 
> Since BMW doesn't seem to see a future for the Touring models in the U.S., I doubt we'll see them.


You're right - the ideal comparison would be a 120d or 123d hatch, but we don't get those either.  It's a shame, I rode in one of those during my European Delivery trip last year, and it would have been a strong contender, RWD or not. We might have tried to hang on until next year to check out the X1 if it had come with a diesel, but since it doesn't in the USA, and since we wanted to have VERY STRONG fuel economy in our next car, that more or less eliminated it. (Along with the 328xi touring, too.)

We test-drove a Prius, too. Although on paper it looked good, the driving characteristics -- especially handling and braking -- took it out of contention.



> I liked the A3 by the way - see my review:
> 
> Audi A3 2.0 TDI
> 1 February 2010
> ...


Thanks. We're having a hard time locating one with the packages we wanted -- we don't want a sunroof, but we do want the "Premium Plus" package, and that's causing dealers all kinds of fits. Might end up ordering a 2011 at this point.

EDIT: You said in your article that Audi expected 40% of A3's to be TDIs. In fact, as of April, Audi said that around 50% were TDIs:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2010-04-27-dieselcars27_ST_N.htm


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## sdbrandon (Mar 18, 2006)

listerone said:


> This being the only diesel I've ever owned (or driven) I can only speak for *it*...but "sucks" is one word I wouldn't use to describe it.Given that highway driving is 90% of my driving the 42MPG that I easily and consistently get there is just fine with me...thank you very much.Add to that the effortless (and *beastly*) power it posesses and I'm convinced that I have a winner here.My next car (in 5 years or so) will almost certainly be a diesel but it's likely to be a 4 cylinder...BMW....VW....Audi....who knows!


By "sucks " meant the diesel sucks gas. A diesel 335/X5d is somewhat of a throw it in your face environmental faux paux.

I mean come on, do you want save money and fuel or don't you?

Buying a $70k vehicle to get 5 more MPG. Well hello, how about buying a $25k car that gets 50+MPG.

I think BMW needs to focus on MPG and diesels to save fuel instead of making pretend environmentally conscious wanna be cars.

Don't you read the Roundel, every month folks are complaining about the lack of true fuel saving diesels. 118, 318, 320, etc.


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## Neutrinolad (Jun 23, 2009)

robmwed said:


> you know, every post you make about how bad your 335d has been treated by techs, dealers, or the original factory production is frustrating. Seems like you have been the only one to have to suffer like that. Although that is a very high percentage of success, it is tough to hear the problems that you have had to endure.
> 
> Of course, there is no real consolation the rest of our diesel community can give to you, i hope that you will someday soon get to enjoy all of the excitement that we have been living.
> 
> Hang in there !


+1


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I personally just like driving diesel vehicles and could care less if it blows rainbows out of it's tailpipes or a constant soot cloud. The mileage the car gets does seem to be very good for the performance it gives. If I really cared about mileage though then I'd bought a TDI VW and actually a slightly used one since they actually got better mileage than the new ones. I don't care too much about the performance so at first I was disappointed with the mileage but just deal with it at this point. 

I once ordered an S4 Audi without a sunroof and it was like pulling teeth to get the order in. Dealership did not want to do it in fear of me backing out and them having to find a buyer. If it were up to me none of my cars would have sunroofs but most have had them due it not being an option.


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## csecard (Oct 17, 2009)

sdbrandon said:


> by "sucks " meant the diesel sucks gas. A diesel 335/x5d is somewhat of a throw it in your face environmental faux paux.
> 
> I mean come on, do you want save money and fuel or don't you?
> 
> ...


-10


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