# 0W-30 Engine Oil



## dukedkt442 (Feb 12, 2013)

edycol said:


> ^This topic!
> 
> By the way, MB229.71 is strictly 0W20 oil, so no.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clarification on the MB spec. I’d forgotten the full number off the top of my head so just copy-pasted from above. 


Via the interwebs


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

My owners manual says that 0W-30 is fine. The Pennzoil I have gives these specs for Mercedes-Benz: MB-Approval 229.31, MB-Approval 229.51, MB Approval 229.52.

I would like to stay with a 0W oil because of all the cold starting I do. Although I park in a heated parkade most of the time, I do almost exclusively city driving and start my car with a cold engine multiple times a day. The odd time I would park outside in the winter, can get down to -40 here(Celsius and Fahrenheit meet at -40), so I would like the thinnest cold-starting oil allowable. The only thing I’m not sure of is whether I should go OW-30 or 0W-40, and why. My owners manual says that both of these are fine.

Edycol, thank you for responding. Could you please look into the Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W-30 that I have, and give me your opinion on it? That would be greatly appreciated.


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

I found what the Parts and Service guys at Canadian Tire were talking about. On their website, on the page about the Pennzoil Platinum LX Euro 0W-30 with Pure Plus Technology, it says, and note the BMW LL-01 rating:

*FEATURES*

CLEANER PISTONS - Superior piston cleanliness up to 45% cleaner than the requirements of ACEA C2/C3 (Based on DV4TD vs. ACEA C2/C3 using SAE 0W-30 )
BETTER FUEL ECONOMY - Up to 2.6% greater fuel economy (Based on ACEA M111 fuel economy results vs. the industry reference oil using SAE 0W-30)
PROTECTS HORSEPOWER - Reducing inlet valve deposits maintains air flow to combustion chamber
UNSURPASSED WEAR PROTECTION - Up to 4X better than API SN specification (Based on Sequence IVA vs. API SN using SAE 0W-30)
Up to 50% better than ACEA C2/C3 requires (Based on OM646LA vs. ACEA C2/C3 using SAE 0W-30)
EXCELLENT PERFORMANCE IN EXTREME TEMPERATURES - Provides faster low temperature oil flow and protects in extreme heat
This product is Carbon Neutral. The C02e emissions of the lifecycle of this product have been offset with verified Nature Based Carbon Credits
Meets or exceeds the following OEM requirements: BMW LL-01; Chrysler MS-10725, MS-10850, MS-12991; MB-Approval 229.3; MB-Approval 229.5; MB-Approval 226.5; Porsche A40; VW 502.00, VW 505.00; Fiat 9.55535.Z2, Fiat 9.55535-N2 (Meets or Exceeds Requirements)
Exceeds the requirements of the following Industry specifications: API SN PLUS and API SN; ACEA A3/B3, A3/B5


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

I have edycol’s seal of approval on the Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-30 for my 2011 323i, with it’s N52 engine, along with the condition that I change oil every 7,500-8,000km. He really knows his stuff! After my oil change I will update with how my engine sounds and performs, ie whether it likes it or not. If it seems to like this oil, I will do an oil analysis when I do the second oil change and post the results here.


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## BimmurBrothor (Jun 30, 2017)

You may find this of interest...









Oil change from my Indy


So when BMW did it, they used 0w-30, in my car I have the original spare which is also 0w-30, the manual says 0w30 or 0w20 / mobile web site says 0w-20. I know my parts guy will tell me, but just thought I'd ask here txs !




www.bimmerfest.com





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## Averie (11 mo ago)

So when I did the oil change with the Pennzoil Euro LX 0W-30, I couldn’t tell much difference from the old oil which was unknown. So I thought I’d wait several weeks to post an update on how my N52 with 126,000km liked the oil. There has been no funny noises like pinging and the engine has been running perfectly. I drove it hard one night and it performed great when pushed.

So now I will wait two cycles and then have the used oil analyzed two oil changes from now. If it’s good I intend to run this oil to 160,000km/100,000 miles, then maybe switch to a high mileage oil. That will take more research. At this point, I’m thinking a ultra-high quality 0W-40.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Averie said:


> I found what the Parts and Service guys at Canadian Tire were talking about. On their website, on the page about the Pennzoil Platinum LX Euro 0W-30 with Pure Plus Technology, it says, and note the BMW LL-01 rating:
> 
> *FEATURES*
> 
> ...


It cannot be LL01. That is mistake by Shell. LX Euro was LL04 (it is not anymore as BMW eliminated 0WXX oils in LL01 AND LL04 approvals). ACEA C3 means low SAPS oil=LL04. 
It will do good, don’t worry. 


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

Thanks Edy
Do you think I should change it to something a little thicker, at some point during the life of the engine? I heard somewhere that, as an engine wears out, it can benefit from thicker oil.


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## The Wog (May 31, 2021)

Averie said:


> My intention is not to irritate you guys, just to try and find out what you think about 0W-30 engine oil. Some testimonies about using it here, would really help anyone in my situation who has read what Dr Haas says about 0W-30. He claims it is the best viscosity(bmw does not recommend 0W-20) for minimizing cold-start engine wear. I want to know if you guys think that this is still a valid claim.
> 
> I assumed that the “longlife” preference in my OM was because of the excessively long milage between oil changes that BMW recommends. And because I will never go anywhere near that mileage between oil changes, I again assumed that I could ignore the “BMW Longlife-01 and 01 FE” suggestion in my OM.


If he recommends it AND it's one of the approved viscosities recommended by BMW AND it's suited to your local climate (recommendations can vary between Minnesota and Arizona) then I'd be comfortable with the grade. 

LL isn't just for people intending to use BMW's silly change intervals - no sane person intending to keep the car longterm would do that. LL oil is rated for those obscene distances because it contains heaps of the right useful additives. These additives are useful for conditioning the seals and protecting other bits. I only use LL-approved oil even though I use the same change intervals as you. 

EXCEPT that my understanding is Mobil 1 was previously LL-01, but didn't bother recertifying it (at vast expense) when they trivially changed the formula. It's as good or better than other LL-01. I'd make an exception to my rule if I could buy Mobil 1 at a sensible price here. I've never heard a bad word about it. 

FWIW I use Castrol 5W30 because it's LL-01, my oil cap says Castrol and I can get it ridiculously cheaply here. My car is too old to be considering thinner oils in Australian heat, and is not old enough to start using old car thicker oil.


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## Aristoc (Feb 4, 2021)

all the BMW designations needed in this castrol 5W40 including MB 229.3 and on sale at Walmart

walmart castrol 5w40


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## dukedkt442 (Feb 12, 2013)

The Wog said:


> EXCEPT that my understanding is Mobil 1 was previously LL-01, but didn't bother recertifying it (at vast expense) when they trivially changed the formula. It's as good or better than other LL-01. I'd make an exception to my rule if I could buy Mobil 1 at a sensible price here. I've never heard a bad word about it.


This is why I still use the previously LL01-certified Castrol 0w-40 oil; @edycol has mentioned that it no longer meets LL01 but meets the more stringent MB spec. I'm nearing 190k miles with great UOAs. In NY, I find it at Walmart for $4.40/quart.


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

Thanks guys. I just followed Aristoc’s link and found a thread titled “High Mileage Engine Oil.” On that thread Edycol and others pointed out the weaknesses of oil advertised as high mileage oil. I won’t ever be using that stuff. When I rack my mileage up, I might try Edycol’s suggestion of Castrol Edge 0W40 though.


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## dukedkt442 (Feb 12, 2013)

Averie said:


> Thanks Edy
> Do you think I should change it to something a little thicker, at some point during the life of the engine? I heard somewhere that, as an engine wears out, it can benefit from thicker oil.


Wear is relative; just because an engine is high mileage doesn't mean it is worn. I have 40-50 year old engines with hundreds of thousands of miles with 0 oil consumption, perfect compression and clean UOAs. Don't assume anything, and don't base your assumptions on un-scientific qualifications sound as engine sound or color of used oil. M1 oils are louder due to additive packs; used oil SHOULD be dirty, as the detergents are doing their job in keeping the engine clean. Cold starts and idling add fuel to the oil, lowering viscosity. This can't be seen nor heard, you need a UOA to determine that. I may have mentioned previously, but my non-LL01 0w-40 oil shows better UOAs than LL01-certified Castrol 5w-40; calling out @edycol again, that is due to different base stocks/formulations.

It's oil in an N52; don't over think it. Everything anyone could possibly say about oil for this engine has been stated countless times in countless threads. Dump in LL01 or previously-certified LL01, and worry about more important things (like keeping the engine from eating its serpentine belt through the front seal.  )


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

Thanks Duke. I just changed my air filter and found about two pounds of kibble dog food up against the filter. I guess the guy I bought the car from had mice problems in his garage where he kept his dog food. That means the engine might have been starving for air and this would have caused an overly rich fuel mixture, leading to fuel in the oil. Now I’m really over thinking this eh? Haha


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

The Wog said:


> If he recommends it AND it's one of the approved viscosities recommended by BMW AND it's suited to your local climate (recommendations can vary between Minnesota and Arizona) then I'd be comfortable with the grade.
> 
> LL isn't just for people intending to use BMW's silly change intervals - no sane person intending to keep the car longterm would do that. LL oil is rated for those obscene distances because it contains heaps of the right useful additives. These additives are useful for conditioning the seals and protecting other bits. I only use LL-approved oil even though I use the same change intervals as you.
> 
> ...


Mobil1 didn’t certify it bcs. composition of oil. 
In 2015 M1 released current 0W40FS that didn’t have LL01. The issue was that M1, as any serious oil company, knew BMW plans to eliminate 0W40 oils in 2018 update of their approvals. 
But bigger issue was that M1 has significant amount of Esters in their top products! Good thing! But esters are notorious natural oxidizers and it just could not do their OCI requirements. Mobil1 actually does have approved LL01 oil, Mobil1 5W40 Super. But it is mediocre oil IMO. 

Approvals are much more than just OCI. It is oxidation, resistance to breakdown, deposits etc. 

Also, actual approval is very cheap. Non issue in these considerations. 


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

dukedkt442 said:


> Wear is relative; just because an engine is high mileage doesn't mean it is worn. I have 40-50 year old engines with hundreds of thousands of miles with 0 oil consumption, perfect compression and clean UOAs. Don't assume anything, and don't base your assumptions on un-scientific qualifications sound as engine sound or color of used oil. M1 oils are louder due to additive packs; used oil SHOULD be dirty, as the detergents are doing their job in keeping the engine clean. Cold starts and idling add fuel to the oil, lowering viscosity. This can't be seen nor heard, you need a UOA to determine that. I may have mentioned previously, but my non-LL01 0w-40 oil shows better UOAs than LL01-certified Castrol 5w-40; calling out @edycol again, that is due to different base stocks/formulations.
> 
> It's oil in an N52; don't over think it. Everything anyone could possibly say about oil for this engine has been stated countless times in countless threads. Dump in LL01 or previously-certified LL01, and worry about more important things (like keeping the engine from eating its serpentine belt through the front seal.  )


Yes, Castrol 0W40 is definitely step up from Castrol 5W40 and it is due to bunch of PAO base stock which 5W40 has none. 
And you are right on point, N52 is proven, nothing to overthink! As a rule of thumb, I would say for those that don’t want to research too much, any oil with MB229.5 or MB229.51/52 approvals will do it! 
But from compiled data, Castrol Edge 0W40 is IMO best suited for this engine. 


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Aristoc said:


> all the BMW designations needed in this castrol 5W40 including MB 229.3 and on sale at Walmart
> 
> walmart castrol 5w40


It is step down from 0W40. 
MB229.3 is old approval replaced by MB229.5 in 2009. 
Though MB229.3 is still being used for 5W50 oils and some. 
If you ever see oil having only MB229.3 and not 229.5, it is mediocre stuff at best. 


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## dukedkt442 (Feb 12, 2013)

Averie said:


> Thanks Duke. I just changed my air filter and found about two pounds of kibble dog food up against the filter. I guess the guy I bought the car from had mice problems in his garage where he kept his dog food. That means the engine might have been starving for air and this would have caused an overly rich fuel mixture, leading to fuel in the oil. Now I’m really over thinking this eh? Haha


The DME won't (or shouldn't) run rich based on a clogged air filter; it will adjust fuel injection pulses in order to keep stoich based on MAF and Lambda/O2 sensor data. A rich condition would be easily smelled, noticed at the tailpipes (lots of black soot) and if -20% or less, through a code. Don't overthink it. Letting the engine warm up at idle, especially in Canada, would lead to far more fuel dilution of the oil.


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## Averie (11 mo ago)

Dukedkt442 wrote, “Letting the engine warm up at idle, especially in Canada, would lead to far more fuel dilution of the oil.” I try to always warm up my engine good at idle when cold starting, before driving. Are you saying that this is bad? If so, should I warm it up at higher RPM’s or for only a short period, like one or two minutes when in a warm place or 5 minutes when it’s parked outside in the winter?

Thanks. And by the way, thanks for your advice and the sample of your oil analysis. It has helped me decide to start getting them done. By the way, I found a relatively cheap source for Castrol 0W-40 up here and have decided to switch to that on my next change. My only question is “should I keep the same oci as the Pennzoil 0W-30, which was 7,500-8,000km. Or can I go further between oil changes on the Castrol 0W-40, maybe changing it every 10,000km now?”


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## iklo (Jan 17, 2011)

Averie said:


> Dukedkt442 wrote, “Letting the engine warm up at idle, especially in Canada, would lead to far more fuel dilution of the oil.” I try to always warm up my engine good at idle when cold starting, before driving. Are you saying that this is bad? If so, should I warm it up at higher RPM’s or for only a short period, like one or two minutes when in a warm place or 5 minutes when it’s parked outside in the winter?
> 
> Thanks. And by the way, thanks for your advice and the sample of your oil analysis. It has helped me decide to start getting them done. By the way, I found a relatively cheap source for Castrol 0W-40 up here and have decided to switch to that on my next change. My only question is “should I keep the same oci as the Pennzoil 0W-30, which was 7,500-8,000km. Or can I go further between oil changes on the Castrol 0W-40, maybe changing it every 10,000km now?”


Never warm up while idling. No matter how cold it is outside. What are you, a soccer mom? Drive away gently for 5-10 min. No highway. Older BMW owner manuals were very precise about this.


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