# 335d throttle response



## KarlB (Nov 21, 2004)

using a simple online gear ratio/speed calculator it breaks down as follows for a 335d with sport package tires
1st----32 mph--- 51kmh
2nd---57mph---- 90kmh
3rd---87mph--- 139kmh
4th---116mph---186kmh
5th---152mph---243kmh
6th---192mph---307kmh
no doubt this doesnt account for any wind resistance as far as what the veh can actually achieve, I am guessing some where around 160mph GPS from my seat of the pants feel for what the veh ahs left in it at the highest I have had it. (on a closed course of course)

RPM 1st Gear 2nd Gear 3rd Gear 4th Gear 5th Gear 6th Gear 
500 3 6 9 12 15 19 
600 4 7 10 14 18 23 
700 4 8 12 16 21 27 
800 5 9 14 19 24 31 
900 6 10 16 21 27 35 
1000 6 11 17 23 30 38 
1100 7 12 19 26 34 42 
1200 8 14 21 28 37 46 
1300 8 15 23 30 40 50 
1400 9 16 24 33 43 54 
1500 10 17 26 35 46 58 
1600 10 18 28 37 49 61 
1700 11 19 30 40 52 65 
1800 11 20 31 42 55 69 
1900 12 22 33 44 58 73 
2000 13 23 35 46 61 77 
2100 13 24 37 49 64  81 
2200 14 25 38 51 67 84 
2300 15 26 40 53 70 88 
2400 15 27 42 56 73 92 
2500 16 28 44 58 76 96 
2600 17 29 45 60 79 100 
2700 17 31 47 63 82 104 
2800 18 32 49 65 85 108 
2900 18 33 51 67 88 111 
3000 19 34 52 70 91 115 
3100 20 35 54 72 94 119 
3200 20 36 56 74 97 123 
3300 21 37 58 77 101 127 
3400 22 39 59 79 104 131 
3500 22 40 61 81 107 134 
3600 23 41 63 84 110 138 
3700 24 42 64 86 113 142 
3800 24 43 66 88 116 146 
3900 25 44 68 91 119 150 
4000 25 45 70 93 122 154 
4100 26 46 71 95 125 157 
4200 27 48 73 98 128 161 
4300 27 49 75 100 131 165 
4400 28 50 77 102 134 169 
4500 29 51 78 105 137 173 
4600 29 52 80 107 140 177 
4700 30 53 82 109 143 180 
4800 31 54 84 112 146 184 
4900 31 55 85 114 149 188 
5000 32 57 87 116 152 192


apologies for the sloppy cut and apste


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

KarlB said:


> using a simple online gear ratio/speed calculator it breaks down as follows for a 335d with sport package tires
> 1st----32 mph--- 51kmh
> 2nd---57mph---- 90kmh
> 3rd---87mph--- 139kmh
> ...


I can easily see the car hitting the limiter in 5th...my experiences at 140 have definitely shown that....on a closed course, naturally.


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

Stugots said:


> I have a breakdown of the torque figures at each RPM level (1k, 2k, etc) through 6th gear. Having dragged the car a bit, I can tell you that shifting around 4k RPM (I tick at 3800, but the car will shift at 4k) through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd provide optimum transition. If you wait past this point, you can feel a noticeable difference when shifting to the next gear (drop in forward movement/pull).


Thanks for the chart. Yes, it does support that optimal shift point is between 4k and 5k, but closer to 4k, in all gears. Would be nice to see torque numbers at 100 RPM intervals. The rapidly changing slope just past 4k makes it a little difficult to extrapolate within the 4k-5k range.

When my car was new I think it would bounce off the limiter if in M shift mode and I didn't up shift. I think that happened to me a few times after using a paddle to downshift ahead of a turn but it didn't return to D before it was time to upshift. Or maybe I forgot I was in DS when I downshifted, thus ending up in M. With the newer software that's in the car now I noticed it automatically upshifts in M when the rev limit is reached.

Note, this is not something I ever intend to do. But it does happen sometimes when I think the car is in D/DS but it is actually in M, either temporarily or for real, due to me pushing a paddle. Having driven manuals for so long I do like to downshift before a turn. Also, as I said earlier, the engine isn't heard when the windows are open, and it's easy to be at higher RPMs than intended. Compared to my previous MT car, in the 335d I feel more connected to the road but less connected to the engine+transmission.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

Do you have an 09 autoJeff?
My Dec 09 build 2010 can never reach the rev limiter and was never able to. It actually shifts around 4500 every time even if in manual. I'm surprised to learn that it was possible with a previous software version.


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

HIREN said:


> Do you have an 09 autoJeff?


Yes. My car has a Jan '09 build date.

There are at least a few early '09 build cars on this forum. Does anyone remember bouncing off the rev limiter?


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

autoJeff said:


> Yes. My car has a Jan '09 build date.
> 
> There are at least a few early '09 build cars on this forum. Does anyone remember bouncing off the rev limiter?


Mine is Apr 09 build I dont remember seeing mine rev going above 3500. That too happens in M mode when I forget to upshift due to music


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

autoJeff said:


> Thanks for the chart. Yes, it does support that optimal shift point is between 4k and 5k, but closer to 4k, in all gears. Would be nice to see torque numbers at 100 RPM intervals. The rapidly changing slope just past 4k makes it a little difficult to extrapolate within the 4k-5k range.
> 
> When my car was new I think it would bounce off the limiter if in M shift mode and I didn't up shift. I think that happened to me a few times after using a paddle to downshift ahead of a turn but it didn't return to D before it was time to upshift. Or maybe I forgot I was in DS when I downshifted, thus ending up in M. With the newer software that's in the car now I noticed it automatically upshifts in M when the rev limit is reached.
> 
> Note, this is not something I ever intend to do. But it does happen sometimes when I think the car is in D/DS but it is actually in M, either temporarily or for real, due to me pushing a paddle. Having driven manuals for so long I do like to downshift before a turn. Also, as I said earlier, the engine isn't heard when the windows are open, and it's easy to be at higher RPMs than intended. Compared to my previous MT car, in the 335d *I feel more connected to the road but less connected to the engine+transmission*.


:thumbup: same here. I have missed to upshift quite a no of times just because I couldnt hear engine properly.


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## DnA Diesel (Jul 31, 2010)

autoJeff said:


> Yes. My car has a Jan '09 build date.
> 
> There are at least a few early '09 build cars on this forum. Does anyone remember bouncing off the rev limiter?


Sometimes, in DS manually shifting, the car will go right to 4500. 03/09 build date. No s/w updates yet.


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

DnA Diesel said:


> Sometimes, in DS manually shifting, the car will go right to 4500. 03/09 build date. No s/w updates yet.


Sorry, I'm confused about what that means. Do you mean it does not automatically upshift when it reaches 4.5k? Is that M or DS mode? You cannot temporarily manually shift while in DS as touching a paddle switches you to M (as I'm sure you know).

The next time you bring in your car for a major service (like annual CBS) it will probably leave with the latest software due to a campaign having to do with emission. Up side is a couple minor improvements/bugfixes to idrive and to Bluetooth integration. I described changes I saw in a thread I started in E9x forum autumn 2009.


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## DnA Diesel (Jul 31, 2010)

autoJeff said:


> Sorry, I'm confused about what that means. Do you mean it does not automatically upshift when it reaches 4.5k? Is that M or DS mode? You cannot temporarily manually shift while in DS as touching a paddle switches you to M (as I'm sure you know).
> 
> The next time you bring in your car for a major service (like annual CBS) it will probably leave with the latest software due to a campaign having to do with emission. Up side is a couple minor improvements/bugfixes to idrive and to Bluetooth integration. I described changes I saw in a thread I started in E9x forum autumn 2009.


Jeff, to clarify, that is starting in DS then manually shifting up, but then delaying the manual shift and seeing where the automatic upshift occurs, in this case ~4500.

Although some will say it shouldn't make a difference, if I leave the car in D (vice DS), and shift up using the paddles (switching it into 'temporary' M mode, vice the 'permament' M mode in DS) the car will often shift up between 3800 and 4100/4200.

Cheers


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

I tried this morning. Slow acceleration in M1 until it auto-upshifted around 4600-4700. I could swear that with the car's original software it would have bounced off the rev limiter and remained in first. In fact, I think I did just that by accident in the first car I test drove. Downshifted with paddles before a turn then didn't realize I had to upshift after the turn. (and I think I was even in D not DS when I pushed the paddle)

But if no one else experienced this then maybe I'm wrong. I suppose that what I felt could have been the traction control intervening. At the time I was new to an auto tranny and lots of low end torque. (and no LSD)


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Back to the OP's issue, I don't think it has anything to do with turbo lag. I think it's a combination of drive-by-wire and the transmission software.

My biggest throttle lag problem goes something like this: I'm driving in highway traffic at about 50mph (stuck behind a slower vehicle). I decide to move into a faster lane to pass, press decisively on the throttle and move into the next lane (with faster traffic bearing down on me). Instead of the normal diesel acceleration, i get a second or two of nothing (it really feels like a loss of power, like I'm slowing down a bit). Eventually it catches up, but it creates a safety issue. Now I have to hedge my driving a bit in heavy, fast moving traffic since I can never tell if I'll get the power I'm requesting fromt the engine. Not very BMW.

A similar situation is right after a turn, when I ease back into the throttle, it seem like nothing for the first 50% or so of pedal travel, so I press harder, then it freaks out, down shifts and I'm running 3,500 RPM like I'm trying to race someone. Passengers are screaming, beers are spilled everywhere, and now my car will never smell the same again.

Seriously, it's a big annoyance (that appears to be an issue in other BMW models as well) and it could be a safety issue.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

TXPearl said:


> Back to the OP's issue, I don't think it has anything to do with turbo lag. I think it's a combination of drive-by-wire and the transmission software.
> 
> My biggest throttle lag problem goes something like this: I'm driving in highway traffic at about 50mph (stuck behind a slower vehicle). I decide to move into a faster lane to pass, press decisively on the throttle and move into the next lane (with faster traffic bearing down on me). Instead of the normal diesel acceleration, i get a second or two of nothing (it really feels like a loss of power, like I'm slowing down a bit). Eventually it catches up, but it creates a safety issue. Now I have to hedge my driving a bit in heavy, fast moving traffic since I can never tell if I'll get the power I'm requesting fromt the engine. Not very BMW.
> 
> ...


Yes, spilling your beer could definitely be a safety issue!:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

:beerchug:


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## Stugots (Jan 1, 2010)

FYI, you can still force the car to hit the actual limiter..but I believe it requires the paddles (you might be able to do it with the shifter...never tried).

Next time you shift with the paddle, hold the paddle in and don't let go. Watch the RPM gauge and marvel. 



autoJeff said:


> Thanks for the chart. Yes, it does support that optimal shift point is between 4k and 5k, but closer to 4k, in all gears. Would be nice to see torque numbers at 100 RPM intervals. The rapidly changing slope just past 4k makes it a little difficult to extrapolate within the 4k-5k range.


Jeff, if I can get a proper dyno of the torque curve, I can do the breakdown. I need to know the torque #'s and be able to see the RPMs throughout that range to plot that out. I'll have the dyno soon, but nothing yet.


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## Philm35 (Aug 19, 2010)

I've experienced this throttle response delay too. Once, the engine sat and did nothing for what seemed like two full seconds, when I was starting from a stoplight. Freaked me out. I've had similar, but less severe incidents since. I don't know if it's turbo lag or drive-by-wire, but it is annoying, and could be dangerous under the right circumstance. I would agree that applying throttle more slowly and gently helps alleviate the lag.

FWIW, I previously owned a 2005 Audi A6 3.2, which is normally aspirated, and it suffered from a similar lag... Audi owners call it Tip-lag (from Tiptronic)... implying that the automatic transmission was the source of the lag. The Audi's lag could also be mitigated with a gentle touch on the throttle when starting off.


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## Tedj101 (Nov 24, 2009)

Philm35 said:


> I've experienced this throttle response delay too. Once, the engine sat and did nothing for what seemed like two full seconds, when I was starting from a stoplight. Freaked me out. I've had similar, but less severe incidents since. I don't know if it's turbo lag or drive-by-wire, but it is annoying, and could be dangerous under the right circumstance. I would agree that applying throttle more slowly and gently helps alleviate the lag.
> 
> FWIW, I previously owned a 2005 Audi A6 3.2, which is normally aspirated, and it suffered from a similar lag... Audi owners call it Tip-lag (from Tiptronic)... implying that the automatic transmission was the source of the lag. The Audi's lag could also be mitigated with a gentle touch on the throttle when starting off.


I get rid of all the traction control and make sure I don't push the throttle all the way to the floor so that the automatic kick down switch is activated. That helps quite a bit.

You are right, it can be very dangerous under the right/wrong circumstances.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I actually think for normal driving that the lag on these is damn near non existant and the turbos kick in a little too easily. For example for normal driving everything seems fine for me but if I want to drive just a little quicker from a standing stop then I am usually quickly facing either a little tire spin or taking off much quicker than intended. I can't always seem to find a happy medium, but I think that probably is from lack of driving the car a whole lot. Now I have been driving my truck more than anything else the past couple of years so I probably do not notice throttle by wire delays any more and I also am more expecting lack of boost from a stop due to the truck(you can hear the turbo making boost in that thing so you know when it is kicking in). Now for even more aggressive driving, not sure if I ever have really driven like that in this car from a standing stop, closest I have been to it usually resulted in traction control kicking in and causing annoying pauses at times that I really did not need them to happen but also was not planning on driving that way so not like I'd turned off traction control in preparation.

Mine is an early 09 and the few times I have done any WOT driving was in just D mode and when it got up to the point of shifting I have noticed it seems to hesitate or shift rather softly. I could count on one hand how many times I have done that, actually right now I can only think of one time I have. Maybe it is just how the transmission has adapted to me or is it just how the transmissions are when in D and at WOT shifts?


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