# My loaner car . . . white 330i with Nat Brown int



## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Hey guys,

My 330Ci is in for the steering retrofit so I thought some of you might be interested in my loaner since it has the rare Nat brown interior (these pics are for Gary  )

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I really find the coupe more comfortable, also the non-sport seats really are not as comfortable as the sport seats. Whenever I give the advice about the sport option being worth it for the seats alone, I am always reminded by how true it really is . . .

Also, to state this again as I have in the past, the 2002 does have the best steering of all E46's I've ever driven , the throttle is quicker to react and the sedan has a little louder engine note inside then my coupe. I don't know if this is a coupe vs. sedan thing or if it's a 2001 vs 2002 issue but whatever it is, I like it 
:thumb:


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## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

I sure hope so Alan! I'm picking my replacement up on Friday hopefully.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

Best steering? There are quite a few of us that would challenge that judgement.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *Best steering? There are quite a few of us that would challenge that judgement.  *


Have you driven the 2002 yet . . . if so, how do you compare it to yours ?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> I've said this before and I'll say it again, I really find the coupe more comfortable, also the non-sport seats really are not as comfortable as the sport seats. Whenever I give the advice about the sport option being worth it for the seats alone, I am always reminded by how true it really is . . .
> 
> *


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2002)

Those seats look barely better than park benches. Yikes. 

And the "facedrop" for 2002 is as hideous as ever.

I'm glad they at least improved the steering. I'd still probably prefer the 1999-2000 MY steering. But anything is better than the 2001 steering. Ugh.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *Those seats look barely better than park benches. Yikes.
> 
> And the "facedrop" for 2002 is as hideous as ever.
> 
> I'm glad they at least improved the steering. I'd still probably prefer the 1999-2000 MY steering. But anything is better than the 2001 steering. Ugh. *


Just because the Sport seats LOOK more agressive, doesn't mean they are. I have driven hundreds of track miles in each :dunno:

The 2002 steering is supposed to be excellent (from the 325Ti). I would like to drive it. How do you know that you would prefer 99-00, when you have never driven the new one?


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Just because the Sport seats LOOK more agressive, doesn't mean they are. I have driven hundreds of track miles in each :dunno:
> *


Before we go off on a tangent Nate, don't get too twisted about this remark. I find the biggest problem with the non-sport seat is the fact that it doesn't have a tilt feature. The way the bottom cushion is angled really doesn't fit me.

The other big problem I have is my shoulders feel too wide for the seat. If I had smaller shoulders maybe I wouldn't feel this way.

Anyway, maybe by the time my car needs service again the loaners will be a 3/02 production which will now have the tilt feature (or is it 05/02 production :dunno: ) If you could wait, I'll let you know if it's any better


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Just because the Sport seats LOOK more agressive, doesn't mean they are. I have driven hundreds of track miles in each :dunno:
> 
> The 2002 steering is supposed to be excellent (from the 325Ti). I would like to drive it. How do you know that you would prefer 99-00, when you have never driven the new one?  *


To quote myself, "I'd probably still prefer the 1999-2000 MY steering." That (blind) observation is based on the fact that the '99-00 steering is still significantly heavier than the '02 steering. Remember, I'm an E36-loving sadist...

My 190 lb ass slides all over the place without the bolsters. And I hate using my knees to brace myself. My legs need to be free to work the pedals.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> To quote myself, "I'd probably still prefer the 1999-2000 MY steering." That (blind) observation is based on the fact that the '99-00 steering is still significantly heavier than the '02 steering. Remember, I'm an E36-loving sadist...
> 
> My 190 lb ass slides all over the place without the bolsters. And I hate using my knees to brace myself. My legs need to be free to work the pedals. *


Do me a favor and take your 190lb ass and go and test drive the 2002 already . . .

I want to hear your opinion of it . . . also make sure it has the sport package !!!


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Before we go off on a tangent Nate, don't get too twisted about this remark. I find the biggest problem with the non-sport seat is the fact that it doesn't have a tilt feature. The way the bottom cushion is angled really doesn't fit me.
> 
> ...


Umm...I seriously doubt that your shoulders are larger than mine :dunno:

Request a manual trans loaner next time. I have gotten them before. A Z3 and a manual, non-SP 328i


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Umm...I seriously doubt that your shoulders are larger than mine :dunno:
> 
> Request a manual trans loaner next time. I have gotten them before. A Z3 and a manual, non-SP 328i  *


What size sport jacket do you wear :lmao: :lmao:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> My 190 lb ass slides all over the place without the bolsters. And I hate using my knees to brace myself. My legs need to be free to work the pedals. *


There are bolsters on the non-SP seats. My seat is perfect now 

You aren't supposed to use your knees as braces. Dead petal for you left foot, and steering wheel too.

I have traveled sideways in my car going 40+ and didn't fall out of the seat :dunno:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Have you driven the 2002 yet . . . if so, how do you compare it to yours ? *


By saying "us" I was refering to the pre-DBW E46 owners. I personally have never driven a 2002 year car, but like TD know for a fact that it is indeed still lighter than my car.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> What size sport jacket do you wear :lmao: :lmao: *


I just went to look on my Jackets, they don't say...

If I recall correctly, 48


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *
> 
> By saying "us" I was refering to the pre-DBW E46 owners. I personally have never driven a 2002 year car, but like TD know for a fact that it is indeed still lighter than my car. *


Don't go by TD, he is wrong !!! I know for a fact that when he drives the 2002 he is going to love it !!!

As for you . . . I am not quite sure yet . . .

let me ask you a few questions, do you like slow heavy steering or do you prefer quicker steering while still retaining the heavy weighted feel ? ?

BTW the 2002 suspension is also improved and I think they did an excellent job improving it . . . there is no doubt in my mind the 2002 is a superior car to the pre-2002 models . . . sorry guys !!


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Don't go by TD, he is wrong !!! I know for a fact that when he drives the 2002 he is going to love it !!!
> 
> ...


It has DBW, he won't like it


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> I just went to look on my Jackets, they don't say...
> 
> If I recall correctly, 48 *


A 48 !!!! Holy shit you are a big guy !!!

I'm a 44 . . . anyway, don't tell me your shoulders fit in the seat perfectly . . . there is no way I beleive that !!!

I don't understand what is wrong with admitting somethings are better than what we have . . . look above at my post saying how the 2002 is the best of the E46's . . . you know I have a 2001 !!

What can I do except applaud BMW for making a great car even greater !!


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Don't go by TD, he is wrong !!! I know for a fact that when he drives the 2002 he is going to love it !!!
> 
> ...


I can't imagine how steering can be both heavy and quick, it seems like an oxymoron. One of the best weighted steering wheels I have ever felt was my old Grand Am, it took serious effort to move that wheel. As for my sister's Integra or that Tercel I drove I couple of times...

Basically, the steering couldn't both retain it's weight *and* improve in speed on a car that has the same total curb weight. It's just not scientifically possible.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> A 48 !!!! Holy shit you are a big guy !!!
> 
> ...


I just went out to observe more closely, the seat is a PERFECT fit. My sholders are above the large bolsters and my upper back is supported well by the top bolstering, my spine recesses to the seatback and the rest of seat molds around me. This is another thing that I dislike about the sport seat, there is NO shoulder support whatsoever...


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *
> 
> I can't imagine how steering can be both heavy and quick, it seems like an oxymoron. One of the best weighted steering wheels I have ever felt was my old Grand Am, it took serious effort to move that wheel. As for my sister's Integra or that Tercel I drove I couple of times...
> 
> Basically, the steering couldn't both retain it's weight and improve in speed on a car that has the same total curb weight. It's just not scientifically possible. *


Why is heavier steering automatically better?

It is possible to retain the weighting and improve the speed by changing the ratio and the number of turns lock-to-lock.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Why is heavier steering automatically better?
> 
> It is possible to retain the weighting and improve the speed by changing the ratio and the number of turns lock-to-lock. *


that was exactly what I was thinking . . .the 2002 is not as heavy as the 99 and 2000's but it is heavy enough to feel weighted while retaining a quick turning ratio !!


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

The 2002 320i loaner that I had for a day, while one of the ugliest vehicles on the road (I digress) had very good steering feel. 

I would have no complaints going from the 2000 to the 2002. In comparison, the 2001 original steering was an abomination.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Why is heavier steering automatically better?
> 
> It is possible to retain the weighting and improve the speed by changing the ratio and the number of turns lock-to-lock. *


Personal preference. Didn't mean better as a general term, just what I believe. Of course this theory has it's limitations (I'm not giving up power steering, yet) but it stands true for most cars that i drive.

To me, the best steering out there is in the seat of a go-kart. I enjoy having to use arm strength to turn the car. :dunno:


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *. . . there is no doubt in my mind the 2002 is a superior car to the pre-2002 models . . . sorry guys !! *


Awww shucks ... :bigpimp:


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2002)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> A 48 !!!! Holy shit you are a big guy !!!
> 
> ...


Hell, I wear a 46. But I still hate the flat panel seats.

2002 E46s-

- Second only to the E65 in terms of ugly
- Still has DBW throttle
- Still has numb clutch and shifter
- Still has high center of gravity => illusion of excessive mass
- Still poorly and cheaply built

Oh, but the steering isn't nearly as bad as the year before.

Ooo!! Ooo!! I gotta get me one!!

Um, no. Hell, the ugliness alone is enough reason to stay FAR FAR away.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> - Still has high center of gravity => illusion of excessive mass
> *


I never have gotten that feeling :dunno:


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> I never have gotten that feeling :dunno: *


And you claim to not be able to notice the DBW throttle on your mom's 330Cic too.

What can I say?

Can you dip your hand into a deep fryer too and not notice the heat?


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> And you claim to not be able to notice the DBW throttle on your mom's 330Cic too.
> 
> ...


:yikes: Down boy!


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> And you claim to not be able to notice the DBW throttle on your mom's 330Cic too.
> 
> ...


Oh, I notice it for shure.

It is obviously different from mine. It isn't what you claim it is. It doesn't bother me that much. Easy to blip too.


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## Guest (Jun 5, 2002)

Mystikal said:


> *
> 
> :yikes: Down boy! *


I'm kidding. This is a recurring topic between Nate and I.


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> BTW the 2002 suspension is also improved and I think they did an excellent job improving it . . . there is no doubt in my mind the 2002 is a superior car to the pre-2002 models . . . sorry guys !! *


Alan, I totally agree with you. :thumb: :thumb:


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Geeez, you guys are huge; sizes 48, 44 etc for a jacket? Run, don't walk, to your nearest weight watchers center. It was there I lost over 40lbs.

I'm a now puny size 40 and 160lbs.

Frankly, I find all the 3 series seats a wee bit small.

When I was considering the 5 series a couple of years ago, the seats really impressed me with a bottom cushion of ideal length.

I wish BMW could build a better seat; something in the Volvo class would be nice.

Ed


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

EdCT said:


> *I wish BMW could build a better seat; something in the Volvo class would be nice. *


One of my favourite seats ever was the CL Type-S. I sat in it at an autoshow when it first released. Incredible buckets, for my frame.


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

EdCT said:


> *Geeez, you guys are huge; sizes 48, 44 etc for a jacket? Run, don't walk, to your nearest weight watchers center. It was there I lost over 40lbs.
> 
> I'm a now puny size 40 and 160lbs.
> 
> *


Now I understand why "weight" is SO fawking important for some... :lmao: I wonder if the E46 is the only 3er prone to a higher center of gravity due to a fat a$$ in the driver's seat... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

ALEX325i said:


> *
> 
> Now I understand why "weight" is SO fawking important for some... :lmao: I wonder if the E46 is the only 3er prone to a higher center of gravity due to a fat a$$ in the driver's seat... :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: *


:lmao: :lmao:  :lmao: :lmao:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

Mmmm...I love this car's interior. :thumb:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yup, me too :thumb:


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *
> 
> Mmmm...I love this car's interior. :thumb: *


Those seats do look supportive... :thumb:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> yup, me too :thumb:  *




That was cheap, nate.


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