# BMW cuts No Cost Scheduled Maintenance to 3 years, 36k miles and no brakes



## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

BMW has just informed dealers that starting in Model Year (MY) 2017 the included No Cost Schedule Maintenance program will be reduced to a 3 year, 36,000 mile program. Currently BMW is offering a 4 year, 50,000 mile program with new car. Furthermore the new program staring for all 2017 vehicles no longer includes brake pads, brake rotors, wiper blades, engine belts or manual transmission clutches. As is currently the new program will also be non-transferable.

In March of 2016, right when the first round of MY 2017 vehicles go on sale, BMW will being offering new maintenance program upgrades (MPU). These MPUs will be sold by the dealership and will further enhance and extended maintenance coverage.

This is a significant reduction in ownership value, especially in the 4th year when brake replacement is likely needed. Some Model Year (MY) 2017 production starts as soon as March (BMW production chart) so if you were on the fence about buying now or waiting to get a 2017 model this is something you should consider.

*Complete 2016 Model Year BMW Pricing and Ordering Guides - All Models*

The table below outlines the covered content in both the current 4 year, 50,000 mile program and the new 3 year, 36,000 mile No Cost Schedule Maintenance program. The new program applies to new car sales with a model year 2017 or great.


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## LSU Tiger Wes (Dec 17, 2015)

Definitely not good news for customers. I am sure MY 2017 vehicles will still see usual price hikes despite the change. Basically now you get free oil and air filter changes for three years. 

Interesting decision given all the marketing dollars that go into pushing the message of $0 scheduled maintenance. Better start pulling back on that messaging now...


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

tim330i said:


> In *March of 2017*, right when the first round of MY 2017 vehicles go on sale, BMW will being offering new maintenance program upgrades (MPU).


Tim,

I think you have a typo there. Don't you mean March of 2016?


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Ninong said:


> Tim,
> 
> I think you have a typo there. Don't you mean March of 2016?


Thanks


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

If there is no reduction of MY17 MSRP/invoice, then the introduction of MPU will be an implicit price hikes. Maybe it is time to switch to Volvo, which has 5-year/50k(or 60k in the past) maintenance(including brakes and such) and warranty during summer sales events.

Which MY17 models will arrive March 2016?


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## dwlink (May 27, 2007)

*BMW cuts No Cost Scheduled Maintance to 3 years, 36k miles and no brakes*

Stinks for leasees as now brake pad and disk wear may become a concern at lease temination.

Talk about a sneaky way to incentivize lease pull aheads by telling people that if they renew their lease in a new BMW now they wont be responsible for nearly $2k of dealer brake work on a car they're about to never drive again.


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## eqpablon (Dec 18, 2007)

I have always hit 45-50k miles on my leases and BMW has never replaced the brakes. My previous 2011 definitely needed a front brake replacement when I came in for my 45k mi service.

How much do you want to bet I'll need my brakes to be replaced on my future lease at turn in time.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

I bought a new Corvette and found out GM did a similar thing, cut free maintenance visits from 4 to 2 on 2016 models. Basically went from 4 oil changes to 2 oil changes. Not surprised BMW is doing something similar. Their biggest competitors, MB and Audi, do not include any maintenance to the best of my knowledge. Personally, I have never been able to take advantage of any free brake jobs. I guess I drive like a grandma.


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## jsscheung (Nov 10, 2015)

Owners of BMW, Mercedes, Audi have it very good in North America. No matter how much they sell in Asia and many European countries, we never have free maintenance packages. It's all up to the customer to pony up the money for these maintenance.

It's a shame we only get 2 year warranty on BMW, Merc's and Audi's....not to mention no CCP work as no dealer will fix those for you free of charge. 

One good thing about it is within 2 year unlimited mileage if your car has a problem they will fix and replace parts.

I have a friend who had a e90 325i and 23 months into ownership engine started to burn quite an amount of oil. He had around 150,000km on the engine and BMW China replaced his engine free of charge....


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## jsscheung (Nov 10, 2015)

As for someone who mentioned brakes into 4th year lease, does BMW check, at lease return that you put in aftermarket brake disc and pads, like say with Lemforder parts?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

namelessman said:


> Which MY17 models will arrive March 2016?


BMW announced that the change will affect all vehicles with a MY of 2017 and after. Quite a few 2017 BMWs will begin production in March 2016, although I doubt that any of those will arrive in the US before early April 2016.

Which ones? All of the 2017 6-series, all of the Z cars, the new 440's. And then starting in April 2016, the 2017 X4 and the all-new 2017 X3 on the CLAR platform.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Definitely something to factor in.

Extra cost for leases. May be cost prohibitive.


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## kromix (Mar 20, 2013)

pony_trekker said:


> Definitely something to factor in.
> 
> Extra cost for leases. May be cost prohibitive.


How much though? Talking just leases is it a big deal?

Whats the average mileage to change Brake Pads and Brake Discs isn't it past 36k?

Isn't the only thing to worry about wiper blades and thats negligible???


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

kromix said:


> How much though? Talking just leases is it a big deal?
> 
> Whats the average mileage to change Brake Pads and Brake Discs isn't it past 36k?
> 
> Isn't the only thing to worry about wiper blades and thats negligible???


If you do 15-17k miles per year you could be in for a set of brakes. Possibly 2.


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## My08535i (May 16, 2007)

*Effecting Sales Numbers*

I think this will affect their overall annual sales numbers. I worked at a BMW dealer for almost 10 years and that was many customers biggest reason (4yr Maintenance) to by a BMW. Many were on the fence with other brands but went with BMW for the Maintenance.

I'm sure its costing them a lot, but they were #1 in the luxury segment again in 2015. They will see an impact of new sales due to this change, not sure quite how much, but it will change some consumers minds. Those of us die hard fans will continue to buy them, but not all. Im on my 15th BMW since 2004 and I just picked my new 24 month lease on Saturday, so Im good with full maintenance until Jan 2, 2018. We will see what I decide at that point.

Also the dealer told me when I did the paperwork, that if I transfer my lease before the end the maintenance will be voided for the next owner, the maintenance is only good if I own the car. Apparently this was a recent change mid last year. This makes it harder to buy pre-owned cars that are privately sold on here and other online sites unless its sold at a BMW dealership.


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## alewifebp (Sep 20, 2008)

They were #1 by about 3,000 cars, and December was down. This probably won't impact most leasers. And they will probably be able to sell some program upgrades to leasers that don't need it. I've never had to replace brakes on a BMW lease, so hopefully that trend continues. With a lot of decisions made recently, and the scarcity of slamming deals to be had, it is clear that BMW is trying to improve margins and shed some of the slamming deal notoriety. It's unfortunate of course.


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## justinnum1 (Nov 22, 2011)

i have been bmw for over 10 years, this will make me look at audi.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I think this is a good thing. I'm realistic.  I doubt anyone really believes "free maintenance" is really free. It's a cost that is passed on within the selling price.

I've leased multiple BMWs. I've only changed pads once, and that was due to warranty. That change would still be covered. I'd prefer not having to subsidize someone else's pads as maintenance.

However, I do think BMW won't pull other maintenance items in the next few years. The competition is very close this year, so they do need some competitive edge.


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## My08535i (May 16, 2007)

*My reason*

The only reason I have had so many BMW's is 2 things - the drive and the deals I have gotten on all of my BMWs. Having worked for a BMW dealer for almost 10 years, my wife and I both had Employee lease deals, which were stupendous and now after having left the dealership but still working in the auto industry, Im still well connected and get great deals. If the deals were to stop, I may look at other brands for sure. But this time around, I shopped Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW and my lease payment is hundreds, yes hundreds cheaper than competitive models of the other brands I looked at. So on Saturday I traded in my '14 650xi Gran Coupe and signed a 2 yr lease on a '15 750Lxi. So I'm locked in for a while and will revisit in 2 years.


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## Eagle11 (Oct 6, 2013)

This was one of the reasons I we got BMWs, the free maintenance, makes ownership nice not to worry about it. Now, for My2018 I'll be looking else I guess...


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## kromix (Mar 20, 2013)

pony_trekker said:


> If you do 15-17k miles per year you could be in for a set of brakes. Possibly 2.


But if you are doing 15-17k a year u shouldn't be leasing in my opinion.....

I really do hope some these cost savings are passed down to the car's MSRP.... Lose some edge on maintenance but gain some on pricing.


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

kromix said:


> But if you are doing 15-17k a year u shouldn't be leasing in my opinion.....
> 
> I really do *hope some these cost savings are passed down to the car's MSRP*.... Lose some edge on maintenance but gain some on pricing.


:rofl:


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## Eagle11 (Oct 6, 2013)

kromix said:


> But if you are doing 15-17k a year u shouldn't be leasing in my opinion.....


Why, if you rolled the mileage into the new lease


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## kromix (Mar 20, 2013)

need4speed said:


> :rofl:


Hah you are right, no chance.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

kromix said:


> But if you are doing 15-17k a year u shouldn't be leasing in my opinion.....
> 
> I really do hope some these cost savings are passed down to the car's MSRP.... Lose some edge on maintenance but gain some on pricing.


Driving 48k over 3 years with free maintenance priced into the lease is fine. At the end of the lease just bring the high mileage car back. In most cases with a pull ahead, I am bringing the car back w 45k. If I go over, buying extra miles is still cheaper.

With limited free maintenance not so much. Makes more sense to buy used. Once we are talking buying used, BMW makes less sense.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

In any case looks like the 2017 F10 isn't out until October so not a worry this time. Lease is up in June.


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## RPiM5 (Nov 3, 2011)

This really puts a hamper on those who like to buy and drive the heck out of their cars. Leasing isn't for everyone, especially for someone like me that puts between 20,000 to 25,000 miles a year on a car. The 48 month 50,000 mile plan which included free brakes was super nice to have when driving an M car where even just steel rotor replacement will cost way north of $3,000 dollars. I have never cared for the BMW oil changes at the dealership, I always preferred Liqui-Moly and always changed my oil every 6,000 miles vice BMW's 12,000 miles. Free wiper blades, I used once, nice but not a dealer breaker. True, all the free maintenance must be costing them a lot and they gotta find somewhere to cut costs I suppose, but still that has been a selling point for BMW for decades. Times are a changing I guess. Nothing lasts forever.


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## Eagle11 (Oct 6, 2013)

I saw that Jag has 5yr 60K maintenance program included, which covers all, Jag might be worth looking at.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

jsscheung said:


> As for someone who mentioned brakes into 4th year lease, does BMW check, at lease return that you put in aftermarket brake disc and pads, like say with Lemforder parts?


IMO no. Id just replace the PADS ONLY with Centric pads. I doubt they will measure rotors- AND I expect as long as rotors are above min at turn in they will not have a special spec for 'rotor thickness at turn in'

I find the spark plug listing to be disengenuous at best...i there ANY BMW with a 36k spark plug replacement recommendation? The are saying "we cover spark plugs but sparks plugs are never needed" Same as the old drive belts- they cover drive belts but - oh my- 'inspecting drive belts was never a recommendation on the CBS'

Dealers probably dont like this- dirves more customers to indys, creates more strife with customers. I wonder if the new pricing announced for brake service was part of this effort? BMW saying 'you need to charge customers along the same lines as you used to make when we paid"?


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## BavarianDoc (Apr 23, 2003)

it's very strategic move on BMWs end and I'm sure it has been very well planned

majority of new BMWs (80%+) are leased therefore this particular change will not be effecting many folks

more importantly, course BMW is taking with many recent updates -- they want consumers to change BMWs every 2-3 years and to either lease new BMWs or buy CPOed from dealer. 

they are steering customers away from traditional owning for long time, lease transfers or private car sales/purchases.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

pony_trekker said:


> If you do 15-17k miles per year you could be in for a set of brakes. Possibly 2.


Depends on your driving style. I have personally driven 90k on the original brakes on a few BMW's. Out of the 23 BMW's I have owned, I have had brakes put on 3 of them. I am not too worried about removing brakes from the free program since I hardly ever get to take advantage of that offer.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

justinnum1 said:


> i have been bmw for over 10 years, this will make me look at audi.


Before you get too far into that, take a look at Audi's service prices. They are high like Mercedes.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

kromix said:


> But if you are doing 15-17k a year u shouldn't be leasing in my opinion.....
> 
> I really do hope some these cost savings are passed down to the car's MSRP.... Lose some edge on maintenance but gain some on pricing.


Do the math my friend, high mileage drivers should lease and all of you 10k per year people should buy and hold. I am not trying to turn this into a lease vs. buy argument, but I have done both and leasing makes more sense to someone like me who does 30k miles per year.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

RPiM5 said:


> This really puts a hamper on those who like to buy and drive the heck out of their cars. Leasing isn't for everyone, especially for someone like me that puts between 20,000 to 25,000 miles a year on a car. The 48 month 50,000 mile plan which included free brakes was super nice to have when driving an M car where even just steel rotor replacement will cost way north of $3,000 dollars. I have never cared for the BMW oil changes at the dealership, I always preferred Liqui-Moly and always changed my oil every 6,000 miles vice BMW's 12,000 miles. Free wiper blades, I used once, nice but not a dealer breaker. True, all the free maintenance must be costing them a lot and they gotta find somewhere to cut costs I suppose, but still that has been a selling point for BMW for decades. Times are a changing I guess. Nothing lasts forever.


Dave. I drive more than you do. Please do yourself a favor and price out a 3 year lease buying 25k miles per year. I think you will find that the depreciation on an M car is far greater than the cost of the mileage if you leased the same car. If we were talking about a Toyota Camry, then buying would make more sense, but on 50-100k BMW's, leasing makes sense every day of the week (even the way we drive).


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Does anyone think this is a way to drive sales of hybrids, i3 and i8 cars? Since the usage of brakes and rotors of those cars (regenerative braking) is less?

Plus I'll definitely now reconsider driving as much in the rain since I'll be paying for wipers!


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

chrischeung said:


> Does anyone think this is a way to drive sales of hybrids, i3 and i8 cars?


No Chris. It is a profit grab, plain and simple (that is my personal opinion).


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## flaggrad00 (Jun 21, 2011)

Might be time for me visit carmax, I see a 2011 E90 335 performance edition in my future (with a long ass warranty). I think bmw is taking the wrong approach, their cars are not as good to drive as they used to be and the price creep is egregious. My 328I had a sticker of 48K and doesnt have HID's!


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

kromix said:


> Whats the average mileage to change Brake Pads and Brake Discs isn't it past 36k?
> 
> Isn't the only thing to worry about wiper blades and thats negligible???


Your point is correct for most normal people, like me for instance, because how fast you wear out your brake pads or rotors depends entirely on how you drive. If you drive hard you're going to wear them out a lot faster than most drivers. If you drive up and down the hills of San Francisco you're going to wear them out quicker than someone who lives in a flat part of the country.

Older people like me might get 60,000 miles on a set of brake pads but one of my nieces gets less than 25,000 miles. She's a maniac.  Just compare it to the difference in tire wear between different drivers based on how they drive and where they drive.


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

In the last 10 years I've leased 3 BMW's and all I've gotten in those ten years is two oil changes per year.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Eagle11 said:


> I saw that Jag has 5yr 60K maintenance program included, which covers all, Jag might be worth looking at.


Jaguar covered only the first service and nothing else until starting with their 2016 models they threw in 5 years/60,000 miles of maintenance but I'm not sure if it covers exactly everything or not. Your service indicator light comes on at 16,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first, telling you it's time for maintenance.

So I guess Jag would be something to consider if you like Jags. Maybe it will be a new experience for you? Should be interesting because it's not the same as any of the top German cars. It's a different approach that some people like and others not so much.


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## Axxlrod (Oct 19, 2012)

This change is pure greed and chaps my ass.

This change screws anyone who leases and drives more than 12k miles per year, like me. Now when I give my car back with 45k miles on it at the end of the 36 month lease, I've no doubt that BMW will want me to pay for new brakes for a car I'll never drive again.

My lease is up in a few months, and most likely I'll end up with a 2017 model. So this change will affect me.

This is pushing me to lease a MB as I can roll the pre-paid maintenance plan into the lease and residualize it. So I only pay for 60% of the plan.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

ard said:


> Dealers probably dont like this- dirves more customers to indys, creates more strife with customers. I wonder if the new pricing announced for brake service was part of this effort? BMW saying 'you need to charge customers along the same lines as you used to make when we paid"?


That's a very interesting point: how will this affect the Service Department?

Another interesting point will be what they intend to offer, at a _nominal extra cost_, as an upgrade to their new maintenance coverage for those customers who prefer to be _fully protected_? Including those customers who prefer to be _fully protected_ for a longer period of time or miles? Wait for it, I can sense it coming.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

chrischeung said:


> Plus I'll definitely now reconsider driving as much in the rain since I'll be paying for wipers!


:rofl:


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Axxlrod said:


> Now when I give my car back with 45k miles on it at the end of the 36 month lease, I've no doubt that BMW will want me to pay for new brakes for a car I'll never drive again.


I seriously doubt that they will charge you for brakes unless you're driving with the warning light already on. If your brakes pads are not yet in need of replacement when you turn the car back that shouldn't be a problem at all, just as it isn't a problem now. Why would that change?

All they're saying is that brake pads are a normal wear and tear replacement item that they are no longer going to pay for and that will affect only those drivers who routinely wear out their brake pads during the term of their lease. Many drivers, maybe most, will not be affected but you might if you drive hard and put 45,000 miles on the car before turning it back.



> My lease is up in a few months, and most likely I'll end up with a 2017 model. So this change will affect me.


Yes, it will, so it's something to consider. Just make sure to consider everything when looking at the competition. Usually changes like the one BMW just made have a tendency to filter down to the competition, too. Of course some of the competition already offers less in the way of free maintenance.


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## gpan (Nov 11, 2015)

IMO this impacts factory demo leases more than new car leases (for folks who do 10k per year, of course).. given that demo leases are more likely to have existing mileage/wear and might need replacement of brakes under the 4yr maintenance.. 

Demos are usually in service for at least 1 year by the time they come on the market.. With the reduction from 4yr to 3yr maintenance, 3 year leases go out of the window.. The only option would be 2yr lease which are more expensive

With this change and increasing existing mileage buyout to 0.25cpm, It looks like they are gutting the factory demo lease program.. 

I would love to be proven wrong on this since I do consider factory demo leases as a good deal for folks who don't mind the "used car" part of the lease..


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Axxlrod said:


> This change is pure greed and chaps my ass.
> 
> This change screws anyone who leases and drives more than 12k miles per year, like me. Now when I give my car back with 45k miles on it at the end of the 36 month lease, I've no doubt that BMW will want me to pay for new brakes for a car I'll never drive again.
> 
> ...


The way I read the chart, 2017 5 series start in October. Hope I got that or I will be behind you at the MB dealer.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

pony_trekker said:


> The way I read the chart, 2017 5 series start in October. Hope I got that or I will be behind you at the MB dealer.


Not quite. October 2016 is the last month of production of the 2016 F10 5-series. The 2017 G30 5-series will start production at some point in time after that. It all depends on how long it takes them to switch from the F10 production to the new G30 on the CLAR platform. That might take a little longer. Maybe late November, early December??


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Ninong said:


> Not quite. October 2016 is the last month of production of the 2016 F10 5-series. The 2017 G30 5-series will start production at some point in time after that. It all depends on how long it takes them to switch from the F10 production to the new G30 on the CLAR platform. That might take a little longer. Maybe late November, early December??


Ok, as long as I am getting a 2016 in March to June.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

pony_trekker said:


> Ok, as long as I am getting a 2016 in March to June.


:thumbup:


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## DSTJ99 (Nov 21, 2012)

gpan said:


> IMO this impacts factory demo leases more than new car leases (for folks who do 10k per year, of course).. given that demo leases are more likely to have existing mileage/wear and might need replacement of brakes under the 4yr maintenance..
> 
> Demos are usually in service for at least 1 year by the time they come on the market.. With the reduction from 4yr to 3yr maintenance, 3 year leases go out of the window.. The only option would be 2yr lease which are more expensive
> 
> ...


For those of us that take advantage of the demo/loaner options (I did) we will have to pay extra attention to the mileage and in service date. It probably won't be a big deal for a car with 4 or 5k miles and 6 months of service but the ones with 10-12k and a year could be much riskier.

I think demos get an extra 5k miles added to the factory terms though, right? Maybe that's just warranty.


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## jhm5 (Jan 8, 2016)

Seriously, there is no FREE maintenance. It is prepaid at time of purchase. And, BMW's maintenance program is insufficient: fluid changes are too infrequent. Most folks will get fewer wiper inserts, 1 or 2 fewer oil changes, and 1 less brake fluid flush at most. It would be nice if BMW would cut price a few hundred bucks for that, but don't hold your breath. These type maintenance programs are marketing schemes. BMW's was the most generous and the company seems ready to lower the BMW program to that of the competition. I suppose dealerships will make a big push to sell the extended maintenance programs, squeezing more profit at time of purchase or lease.


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

jhm5 said:


> Seriously, there is no FREE maintenance. It is prepaid at time of purchase. And, BMW's maintenance program is insufficient: fluid changes are too infrequent. Most folks will get fewer wiper inserts, 1 or 2 fewer oil changes, and 1 less brake fluid flush at most. It would be nice if BMW would cut price a few hundred bucks for that, but don't hold your breath. These type maintenance programs are marketing schemes. BMW's was the most generous and the company seems ready to lower the BMW program to that of the competition. I suppose dealerships will make a big push to sell the extended maintenance programs, squeezing more profit at time of purchase or lease.


I agree there's really no free maintenance but they're cutting back on the "free Maintenance 
and increasing prices and eventually imo BMW is going to be fazing it out all together. I'm sure
the Indy's are dancing a jig after hearing this news. The Indys will be getting my business 
after the 3 year " free warranty is up.:tsk:


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## pbjjj (Aug 2, 2015)

I can see this move has pissed off many, including myself, because BMW is taking away something that we BMW owners have enjoyed for many years. However, thinking about my F30 ownership, I personally have not enjoyed much of the "free maintenance" in my 3-year lease because at the lease-end my car had 26K miles and only had had 1 wiper change and 2 oil change (following BMW's onboard system recommendation.). I have kept an eye on the brake wear, and the brakes were still good for another couple thousand miles or so at lease-end (I used to live in the Bay Area and am kind of aggressive driver when I drive by myself  ).

Now my X1 is a purchased vehicle. I am wondering how much difference that extra year of free maintenance would be for me since I plan to keep the car for 4+ years. I am guessing that I probably will utilize the free brake pads/discs benefit once and get maybe 1 more free oil change with couple wiper blade changes. Does Engine Drive Belts really wear out within 50K miles?

I would like to get an idea what the additional cost to an owner like me will be under the new maintenance program. So my questions to y'all are:
- How much does replacing brake pads/discs cost? 
- How much does BMW charge for oil and filter change?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

pbjjj said:


> Does Engine Drive Belts really wear out within 50K miles?


Not in my experience. YMMV. 



> I would like to get an idea what the additional cost to an owner like me will be under the new maintenance program. So my questions to y'all are:
> - How much does replacing brake pads/discs cost?
> - How much does BMW charge for oil and filter change?


This depends on labor rates in your local area, as well as things like the cost of real estate in your area. In other words, since you once lived in the City, you know that prices there are sky high -- also your brake pads wear out faster due to all those hills and all that stop-and-go traffic.

I just checked the service prices at the only BMW dealership that is actually located inside SF and compared those to the service prices where I am now and there's a big difference. So you really need to check your local dealer's website. Just click on Parts & Service and then Service Specials. Looks like all of them are using the same BMWNA sales pitch on service that is tailor-made for the new BMW policy on maintenance. In other words, BMWNA figured out their strategy well in advance.

They're both using the exact same format but with their own individual prices and they can vary by hundreds on the services you asked about. They're pre-pricing at least a dozen different common maintenance procedures and calling it "Value Pricing" or something like that. So check a couple of BMW dealers in your area. Assuming their labor rates are the same (quite common in most metropolitan areas), their prices will probably be the same.


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## pbjjj (Aug 2, 2015)

One small note to add. I have always been able to tell my friends and family about the awesome maintenance program that BMW has, and they replace my brake pads to wiper blades for free. It makes owning a BMW special. If I get another BMW for my next car, I won't be able say that anymore. I know this is insignificant, but customer satisfaction is a key factor to brand loyalty.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

I...just...don't like this.


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## mg650 (Oct 10, 2009)

Doesnt make financial sense to let maintenance programs guide your car purchase. You are paying for this one way or another in the cost of the car. Nothing is ever free- bmw is not automotive santa claus. On the very margin the top 5%-10% of people that drive their cars the hardest might be getting an extra brake job in that they now wont- which other customers are essentially subsidizing.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

mg650 said:


> Doesnt make financial sense to let maintenance programs guide your car purchase. * You are paying for this one way or another in the cost of the car. * Nothing is ever free- bmw is not automotive santa claus. On the very margin the top 5%-10% of people that drive their cars the hardest might be getting an extra brake job in that they now wont- which other customers are essentially subsidizing.


Yes but the question is whether you are paying a lease payment and nothing else or have to drop a couple of hundy on brakes while leasing.


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## hamlyn (Aug 26, 2007)

I was on the fence between buying my current leased BMW, leasing a new one or going with a different brand. Having read this thread, the decision has been simplified for me. Hello Panamera.


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## taylerdo (Jul 1, 2013)

*Shove*

I appreciate all of the comments complaining about this. :thumbup:

I find it funny that the balance of posters attempting to justify all of this don't mind getting new policy shoved down their throat. At your expense. "Real" leaders all, I am sure.

Don


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

hamlyn said:


> I was on the fence between buying my current leased BMW, leasing a new one or going with a different brand. Having read this thread, the decision has been simplified for me. Hello Panamera.


I'm curious how that works with Porsche's scheduled maintenance plans. I believe they offer to sell you your choice of 2 years/20,000 miles, 3 years/30,000 miles, 4 years/40,000 miles or 5 years/50,000 miles.

Let's say a buyer wanted to buy Porsche's 3 years/30,000 miles prepaid maintenance plan with the purchase of their new Porsche Panamera, how would that compare with BMW's maintenance for the first 3 years/30,000 miles?



P.S. -- I pulled this up from Porsche USA: http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/porschescheduledmaintenanceplan/

They don't say how much each new car maintenance plan will cost because that probably varies from one dealer to another but I'm just curious how it compares to BMW's new pricing strategy.


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## Motorboat411 (Jul 23, 2012)

mg650 said:


> Doesnt make financial sense to let maintenance programs guide your car purchase. *You are paying for this one way or another in the cost of the car. * Nothing is ever free- bmw is not automotive santa claus. On the very margin the top 5%-10% of people that drive their cars the hardest might be getting an extra brake job in that they now wont- which other customers are essentially subsidizing.


Not really...the cost difference for BMW is much less than what a buyer would have to pay just to have a maintenance plan. In the past 2 years, I've had to take my F10 only a couple of times for oil change and 2 times for warranty. No brake pads, wiper blade changes etc BUT it was nice to know that all of those things are covered should the need be.

A major downside I see (not sure if anyone mentioned it earlier) is people who lease for 15K miles/year...they'll be forced to get a maintenance plan or only lease for 12Kmiles/yr. The resale/residual value of the cars coming off lease will take a hit too, as a lot of people prefer that the car be under warranty when they buy it used.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

taylerdo said:


> I appreciate all of the comments complaining about this. :thumbup:
> 
> I find it funny that the balance of posters attempting to justify all of this don't mind getting new policy shoved down their throat. At your expense. "Real" leaders all, I am sure.
> 
> Don


If you win $2,500 at the casino, you feel good about it when you get home. If you go back the next month and lose $2,500, you will feel twice as bad as how good you felt winning it in the first place.

The pain of losing something you already have is much greater than the pleasure of gaining it in the first. BMWs sold before free maintenance. They sold before the warranty was extended to 48 months/50,000 miles.

Your point, however, is a very valid one, but apparently the luxury car manufacturers are reconsidering their pricing structure, at least in the US. We'll see how it plays out. Only time will tell. Of course, not all of them had the same policy on free maintenance coverage to begin with and some of them only recently joined the party. Jaguar, for example, just started free maintenance with the 2016 model year. Now what will they do?

I think we have to take a step back to see what the other players are doing.  Here's what Porsche is doing: http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/porschescheduledmaintenanceplan/

I checked Mercedes and they're doing exactly the same thing Porsche is doing. They're offering to sell you a prepaid maintenance plan with the purchase of your new MB: 2 yrs/20,000 miles, 3 yrs/30,000, 4 yrs/40,000 etc.


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## alewifebp (Sep 20, 2008)

MB used to include "free" maintenance, but it never covered brakes. I had a 2004 E500 and had the maintenance program, but spent a lot on brakes due to the SBC brakes at the time, which ate through pads.

It remains to be seen what this does to sales. As a customer, I certainly hope that it has some negative impact. I don't see them bringing this back, but hopefully incentives get increased. Since my lease is up in 2017, that's certainly what I'm hoping.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

alewifebp said:


> It remains to be seen what this does to sales. As a customer, I certainly hope that it has some negative impact. I don't see them bringing this back, but hopefully incentives get increased. Since my lease is up in 2017, that's certainly what I'm hoping.


They definitely seem to be hooked on incentives in recent years. It's like they've gotten addicted to them. Incentives of all sorts plus playing around with residuals as a marketing strategy even if they bear little correlation to expected ACV (actual cash value) of the car at end of lease term. They will probably throw a ton of incentives at the 2016 5-series this year since the new G30 goes into production late this year.

As far as sales are concerned, they release their 2015 results Monday and they will probably hang on to their Number One in the US title for the 11th straight year but just barely. It will be extremely close. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Lexus is Number One in the US in 2016 with Mercedes second and BMW third. If Mercedes does outsell BMW in the US this year, then I sure hope Lexus is Number One.


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## sampatel1 (Sep 8, 2015)

hamlyn said:


> I was on the fence between buying my current leased BMW, leasing a new one or going with a different brand. Having read this thread, the decision has been simplified for me. Hello Panamera.


How does this policy affect you in anyway? This is for newer cars and if you buy your leased car you will be protected.
As for leasing a new BMW, you will not have any issues as you still have the 3 year 36000 miles coverage and normally that should cover your lease term.


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## sampatel1 (Sep 8, 2015)

This policy is more like a price increase. BMW is just going to get an additional about $1000 per car by selling this maintenance package for a extra year. Basically, more money without giving anything extra.


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## rkinra (Dec 4, 2006)

sampatel1 said:


> How does this policy affect you in anyway? This is for newer cars and if you buy your leased car you will be protected.
> As for leasing a new BMW, you will not have any issues as you still have the 3 year 36000 miles coverage and normally that should cover your lease term.


That assumes a few things:

1. You only do 36k miles in 3 years. There are a number of people that do 45k leases (15k/yr)

2. You don't need a brake job during your lease term. If you do, you will now have to pay for it. This most likely will effect those that lease for 45k miles, but also some that get 36k (just depends on how you drive)

3. You will need to pay for wiper blades. Not a huge expense, but just showing you that it's not 100% free maintenance anymore.

Basically the free maintenance is now just 3 oil changes. I wonder if the extra charge to cover brakes & extend to 4yr/50k can be residualized (like MB).


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## justinnum1 (Nov 22, 2011)

Was talking about this with my CA the other day(he didnt even know) he thinks they will lose customers because of this.


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## justinnum1 (Nov 22, 2011)

mg650 said:


> Doesnt make financial sense to let maintenance programs guide your car purchase. You are paying for this one way or another in the cost of the car. Nothing is ever free- bmw is not automotive santa claus. On the very margin the top 5%-10% of people that drive their cars the hardest might be getting an extra brake job in that they now wont- which other customers are essentially subsidizing.


but if you are still paying the same price and not getting the maintenance anymore that is a problem.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

jhm5 said:


> I suppose dealerships will make a big push to sell the extended maintenance programs, squeezing more profit at time of purchase or lease.


Buying a car feels like buying tickers on Spirit Airlines.


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

Having just leased a 2016 JLR crossover to replace the family SUV, I only got the first service paid for but then I was planning on getting all maintenance done by my trusted indy.

My GF is looking at the Volvo for a Euro delivery this year so if that happens, she should be in good shape with maintenance covered.....

Since *BMW new models are no longer fun to drive* and I discovered:
Porsche = most fun to drive but expensive....
Land Rover = most fun to drive but affordable.

My next car to replace out the X5 I have which is ending at the end of the year will probably be a Range Rover Diesel...


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

justinnum1 said:


> Was talking about this with my CA the other day(he didnt even know) he thinks they will lose customers because of this.


Maybe, but right now it's mostly existing BMW owners who are upset. All prospective buyers, including current BMW owners once they cool off, will consider their options when they get ready to pull the trigger. They will look at the competition, if that's something they would even think about, and they will look at BMW and then make a decision.



justinnum1 said:


> but if you are still paying the same price and not getting the maintenance anymore that is a problem.


It's a form of price increase but it's the type of price increase that is bound to upset current owners because it takes away something they already have. That's the worst possible price increase, in my humble opinion. Something to consider when planning your next move. But it's just one factor to consider.



Pat_X5 said:


> My GF is looking at the Volvo for a Euro delivery this year so if that happens, she should be in good shape with maintenance covered.....


Are you sure about that? The free maintenance offered by BMW on a new 2016 BMW is far superior to the free maintenance offered by Volvo on a new 2016 Volvo. "Volvo complimentary factory maintenance covers the first three services: 10,000, 20,000 and 30,000 miles." They do offer to sell you "Volvo Optional Factory Maintenance Upgrade Programs."

That's according to Volvo USA. That's their 2016 program. How is that any different from BMW's announced 2017 program? It looks the same to me. Either that or maybe BMW's 2017 free maintenance is even better than Volvo's current 2016 offering?

It seems to me that a lot of current BMW owners have a perception that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence when in most cases it isn't. And that's assuming the other guys don't make their free maintenance even less than it already is. Jaguar is the one manufacturer who was caught in the middle with this move by BMW because prior to their 2016 models, they offered nothing but the first oil change or something like that. Then, starting with 2016, they tried to match BMW's offering. Some of the other guys -- I think it's Lexus -- don't even offer to change your oil for you. All they do is offer to help you with your settings if you come in at 1,000 miles. Anything else is extra.

People need to relax and consider this for what it really is. It's a price increase in the form of cutting back on free maintenance in the US. They're bringing their free program more in line with their competition. We're spoiled here anyway compared to what BMW offers free in any other market. Even in Canada, which is sort of a suburb of the US, they don't get what we get. And, their cars are more expensive. And, they have never gotten a discount for European Delivery. But at least the Canadians don't have to pay for the privilege of taking delivery at the BMW Welt like the Germans do. And we don't pay a 19% VAT like the Germans do. We pay local sales tax (most of us do) but it's not 19% like it is in Germany, or 25% like it is in many other EU countries. And we don't pay an outrageous tax for the privilege of driving a car with a gigantic 4.4-liter V8 engine.

The bottom line is that we will continue to buy BMWs for the cheapest prices in the world.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Ninong said:


> Maybe, but right now it's mostly existing BMW owners who are upset. All prospective buyers, including current BMW owners once they cool off, will consider their options when they get ready to pull the trigger. They will look at the competition, if that's something they would even think about, and they will look at BMW and then make a decision.
> 
> It's a form of price increase but it's the type of price increase that is bound to upset current owners because it takes away something they already have. That's the worst possible price increase, in my humble opinion. Something to consider when planning your next move. But it's just one factor to consider.
> 
> ...


I saw a suggestion that placing a limit of one covered brake job would be a way to limit BMWNA's exposure without completely dropping the coverage. I think this is a really good idea. Eliminating the clutch coverage affects so few U.S. customers it's not a factor that would cause much push back. It seems to me that if they limited the brake coverage they could probably maintain the four year coverage at a pretty minor cost.

It was also mentioned that they have recently extended the brake fluid flush to three years. By doing this they would eliminate the second flush that they currently cover with the four year plan.

With the push back the new plan is bringing, what do you think about BMWNA's propensity to consider an option like this?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

tturedraider said:


> With the push back the new plan is bringing, what do you think about BMWNA's propensity to consider an option like this?


They have already carefully considered everything and mapped out their new approach to complimentary maintenance and paid service. It looks to me like they have made the decision to bring their complimentary maintenance into line with their major competitors. It looks to me like their new program is as good as, or better than, their major competitors. Jaguar doesn't count anyway. Maybe that was something BMWNA decided on their own or maybe it was something BMWAG asked them to consider.

They're not going to change anything about what they have announced for 2017. That's final.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Ninong said:


> They have already carefully considered everything and mapped out their new approach to complimentary maintenance and paid service. It looks to me like they have made the decision to bring their complimentary maintenance into line with their major competitors. It looks to me like their new program is as good as, or better than, their major competitors. Jaguar doesn't count anyway. Maybe that was something BMWNA decided on their own or maybe it was something BMWAG asked them to consider.
> 
> They're not going to change anything about what they have announced for 2017. That's final.


Yeah, that was just wishful thinking. As you said, it's a bitter price increase pill to swallow. It seems to me even if they had reduced the time coverage, but kept limited brake coverage they could have maintained more of the goodwill they've built over the last decade.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

tturedraider said:


> Yeah, that was just wishful thinking. As you said, it's a bitter price increase pill to swallow. It seems to me even if they had reduced the time coverage, but kept limited brake coverage they could have maintained more of the goodwill they've built over the last decade.


I guess that depends on the individual buyer. As already mentioned here by other posters, some people didn't need to take advantage of the brake coverage anyway. If you do mostly highway driving, you can easily go 50,000 miles on the brake pads. If you drive in bumper-to-bumper traffic and up and down hills in San Francisco all the time, you may not get 35,000 miles.

I think the most obvious thing to cut was the coverage of the clutch. That's entirely dependent on how and where the customer drives. Of course the same can be said of brake pads but it's the clutch coverage that probably drove them nuts more than anything else -- from BMW's point of view.


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## alewifebp (Sep 20, 2008)

One thing that has me worried about the loss of brake coverage is that I always felt that BMW put on brakes that last longer since they would be on the hook for them. I've had to change brakes in pretty much any car I've had on a lease before I started leasing BMWs. I just hope that they don't say, hmm, let's cut the quality since we don't need to pay for them anyway. It's something that we won't know for another two years or so.

Based on the wording of the document they sent out, it sure seems like they will offer maintenance upgrades. Hopefully they can be residualized, or that will be a big hit.

While the change certainly grinds my gears, as Ninong mentioned, I'm also well aware that the program that BMW has is still better than the competetiion, or at least the competition that matters to them. Sure, Lincoln has "free" maintenance as well I believe, but I'm sure that didn't cross their mind. Does MB offer it? No. Audi? No. Lexus? No. People should take a look at the maintenance program that MB offers. They sell it by year and mileage. If you go over 10K/year, you will need to upgrade to the 4 year plan. They will also charge you $199/year for mbrace Secure, which gives you the SOS and collision activation that is included at no charge.


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## jsscheung (Nov 10, 2015)

If this does impact people who lease/purchase BMW....put on a set of aftermarket pads like hawk or akebono, they seem to last forever.....as least for me......


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## jsscheung (Nov 10, 2015)

Nope I don't think BMW pads lasts longer At all. On my e66 750li, I replaced all my pads with hawk pads and reset my cbs. When the count down indicated that I need brake service, my Indy found that my breaks were still good....


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## VeniceUSA (Jun 2, 2014)

alewifebp said:


> One thing that has me worried about the loss of brake coverage is that I always felt that BMW put on brakes that last longer since they would be on the hook for them. I've had to change brakes in pretty much any car I've had on a lease before I started leasing BMWs. I just hope that they don't say, hmm, let's cut the quality since we don't need to pay for them anyway. It's something that we won't know for another two years or so.
> 
> Based on the wording of the document they sent out, it sure seems like they will offer maintenance upgrades. Hopefully they can be residualized, or that will be a big hit.
> 
> While the change certainly grinds my gears, as Ninong mentioned, I'm also well aware that the program that BMW has is still better than the competetiion, or at least the competition that matters to them. Sure, Lincoln has "free" maintenance as well I believe, but I'm sure that didn't cross their mind. Does MB offer it? No. Audi? No. Lexus? No. People should take a look at the maintenance program that MB offers. They sell it by year and mileage. If you go over 10K/year, you will need to upgrade to the 4 year plan. They will also charge you $199/year for mbrace Secure, which gives you the SOS and collision activation that is included at no charge.


Well I know for Audi the maintenance plan is residualized and the residual value goes up 1%for adding it. My plan is $860 for the 15k,25k,35k &45k services which is way cheaper then MB plan.


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## Kar Don (Aug 4, 2004)

alewifebp said:


> MB used to include "free" maintenance, but it never covered brakes. I had a 2004 E500 and had the maintenance program, but spent a lot on brakes due to the SBC brakes at the time, which ate through pads.
> 
> It remains to be seen what this does to sales. As a customer, I certainly hope that it has some negative impact. I don't see them bringing this back, but hopefully incentives get increased. Since my lease is up in 2017, that's certainly what I'm hoping.


I added the old style MB free maint program (no pads and rotors included) on my 2016 GLE300d and it was only an add'l 10 bucks per month. Not a big deal.


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## Axxlrod (Oct 19, 2012)

Motorboat411 said:


> Not really...the cost difference for BMW is much less than what a buyer would have to pay just to have a maintenance plan. In the past 2 years, I've had to take my F10 only a couple of times for oil change and 2 times for warranty. No brake pads, wiper blade changes etc BUT it was nice to know that all of those things are covered should the need be.
> 
> *A major downside I see (not sure if anyone mentioned it earlier) is people who lease for 15K miles/year...they'll be forced to get a maintenance plan or only lease for 12Kmiles/yr. *The resale/residual value of the cars coming off lease will take a hit too, as a lot of people prefer that the car be under warranty when they buy it used.


I drive 15k miles per year. So this new maintenance program change affects me, as the "free" maintenance from BMW ends at 36k miles. So after that, I'm on my own.

Also, coupled with this change is another change that is for the worse also... BMW just announced they are increasing the over-mileage penalties to 25 cents per mile!

With these changes, plus they lower residuals than in years past, this marks an end to BMW being the market leader for leases.

They are now no more competitive than Audi or MB on leases. Bad move BMW.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Axxlrod said:


> I drive 15k miles per year. So this new maintenance program change affects me, as the "free" maintenance from BMW ends at 36k miles. So after that, I'm on my own.
> 
> Also, coupled with this change is another change that is for the worse also... BMW just announced they are increasing the over-mileage penalties to 25 cents per mile!
> 
> ...


Purchase more miles before the lease ends at 18¢ per mile. The 25¢ only hits if you turn in the car without purchasing miles ahead of time. Unless BMWFS changes their current rule you can buy additional miles until the day before the lease matures.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

tturedraider said:


> Purchase more miles before the lease ends at 18¢ per mile. The 25¢ only hits if you turn in the car without purchasing miles ahead of time. Unless BMWFS changes their current rule you can buy additional miles until the day before the lease matures.


Is there a reference to 18¢/mile? Currently it is 16¢ instead of 20¢, or 20% off, for purchasing before lease end. 18¢/mile instead of 25¢ would be a 28% discount, right?


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

namelessman said:


> Is there a reference to 18¢/mile? Currently it is 16¢ instead of 20¢, or 20% off, for purchasing before lease end. 18¢/mile instead of 25¢ would be a 28% discount, right?


Going off of this post:


EatonZ26 said:


> Looks like the cost for miles has increased. I leased a Z4 and when I got it a year ago it was 20 cents per mile, now it is 25 cents. The discounted purchase price has also increased by 2 cents from 16 to 18 cents per mile.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

namelessman said:


> Is there a reference to 18¢/mile? Currently it is 16¢ instead of 20¢, or 20% off, for purchasing before lease end. 18¢/mile instead of 25¢ would be a 28% discount, right?





tturedraider said:


> Going off of this post:


For a reliable confirmation, talk to your client advisor or perhaps BMWFS will answer this specific question for you if you have an open lease with them. Just call them and ask.

*However*, I can tell you what I expect will happen based on years of past experience with them. None of the new changes will affect any current lease accounts. Absolutely the lease penalty for extra miles that is printed on your present lease will not change because it cannot change, it's part of your contract. Therefore, you can *expect* that the discounted price for purchasing miles in advance will be *unchanged*.

This new increase in mileage penalties will only apply to new leases that show the new mileage penalties printed on those leases. You should not expect it to affect your current lease in any way whatsoever. They have never done anything as dumb as that in the past and I see no reason for them to start now.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

Axxlrod said:


> I drive 15k miles per year. So this new maintenance program change affects me, as the "free" maintenance from BMW ends at 36k miles. So after that, I'm on my own.
> 
> Also, coupled with this change is another change that is for the worse also... BMW just announced they are increasing the over-mileage penalties to 25 cents per mile!
> 
> ...


I feel the same way. My M4 may very well be my last high mileage leased BMW. I have already decided that my next car, if it is a BMW, will be a entry level model. I can't justify the 90k lease I do on another M with all of these price increases....its just not worth it to me. I have milked the BMW lease party for over a decade and I realize the party is over.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

tturedraider said:


> Purchase more miles before the lease ends at 18¢ per mile. The 25¢ only hits if you turn in the car without purchasing miles ahead of time. Unless BMWFS changes their current rule you can buy additional miles until the day before the lease matures.


That still increases the cost of mileage significantly...,


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

Ninong said:


> For a reliable confirmation, talk to your client advisor or perhaps BMWFS will answer this specific question for you if you have an open lease with them. Just call them and ask.
> 
> *However*, I can tell you what I expect will happen based on years of past experience with them. None of the new changes will affect any current lease accounts. Absolutely the lease penalty for extra miles that is printed on your present lease will not change because it cannot change, it's part of your contract. Therefore, you can *expect* that the discounted price for purchasing miles in advance will be *unchanged*.
> 
> This new increase in mileage penalties will only apply to new leases that show the new mileage penalties printed on those leases. You should not expect it to affect your current lease in any way whatsoever. They have never done anything as dumb as that in the past and I see no reason for them to start now.


I have confirmed that the MAP program has adjusted to .18 cents a mile effective January 1, 2016. They also took away the option, as far as I can see, to buy the miles right before lease turn-in. Now it is back to miles must be purchased by 4 months prior to lease turn-in.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> I feel the same way. My M4 may very well be my last high mileage leased BMW. I have already decided that my next car, if it is a BMW, will be a entry level model. I can't justify the 90k lease I do on another M with all of these price increases....its just not worth it to me. I have milked the BMW lease party for over a decade and I realize the party is over.


For another extra $0.02 per mile($0.18 instead of $0.16), the extra cost for 40k miles is less than $1k, right? That is still pretty good especially on a M car.


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## justinnum1 (Nov 22, 2011)

i hope bmw takes a big hit, getting greedy like this.


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## neilsarkar (Jan 21, 2012)

My 750i lease initiated on 10/20/2015 already requires buying extra miles four months before the lease termination. I thought it was a 7-er only restriction at first. Sigh.


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## neilsarkar (Jan 21, 2012)

These are some of the customer-hostile policies BMW instituted in the last couple of years:

1. Increased destination fee from $925 to $995.
2. Increased acquisition fee from $725 to $925.
3. Decreased European Delivery discount from 7% to 5%.
4. Made the new vehicle maintenance plan restricted to first owner only.
5. Reduced the duration and scope of new vehicle maintenance plan.
6. Increased the cost of extra miles from $0.20 to $0.25.
7. Decreased the window of purchasing extra miles at discount.

While none of these policy change is significant by itself, taken together they diminish the ownership experience of a new BMW quite a bit. And this is happening at a time when BMWs are getting dynamically outclassed in virtually every segment they compete. It will be interesting to observe how these factors play out in next five years.

Interestingly, Lexus is the current value leader if you are leasing. We leased in Lexus GS for $395 per month (with $0 drive-off) in December - and, apart from the engine, it's decidedly a more fun-to-drive car than my 5 was (heresy, I know).


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## justinnum1 (Nov 22, 2011)

neilsarkar said:


> This are some of the customer-hostile policy BMW instituted in the last couple of years:
> 
> 1. Increased destination fee from $925 to $995.
> 2. Increased acquisition fee from $725 to $925.
> ...


i never considered another car manufacture over the past 15 years, that will change when my lease is up in 2 years. the new infiniti coupe is looking damn nice.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

namelessman said:


> For another extra $0.02 per mile($0.18 instead of $0.16), the extra cost for 40k miles is less than $1k, right? That is still pretty good especially on a M car.


It's not just the price per mile. It is the combination of higher per mile costs, lower residuals (mine was 60% for 15k miles per year and the current numbers are in the 54% range), less maintenance coverage and higher rates. Overall, the cost of driving a BMW is going up and it is not the value it once was. Given my driving habits, I may decide to consider cheaper options next time even if I remain in a BMW.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

neilsarkar said:


> This are some of the customer-hostile policy BMW instituted in the last couple of years:
> 
> 1. Increased destination fee from $925 to $995.
> 2. Increased acquisition fee from $725 to $925.
> ...


Exactly. Taken individually they are no big deal, but combining all of them it becomes a situation where some of us, me included, will start closely looking at something else to see if my money is better spent elsewhere.


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## neilsarkar (Jan 21, 2012)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> It's not just the price per mile. It is the combination of higher per mile costs, lower residuals (mine was 60% for 15k miles per year and the current numbers are in the 54% range), less maintenance coverage and higher rates. Overall, the cost of driving a BMW is going up and it is not the value it once was. Given my driving habits, I may decide to consider cheaper options next time even if I remain in a BMW.


And once you go down the BMW price chain, there are some compelling non-BMW alternatives in the 40k - 60k price range.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

justinnum1 said:


> i never considered another car manufacture over the past 15 years, that will change when my lease is up in 2 years. the new infiniti coupe is looking damn nice.


I have always cross shopped the competition and came back to BMW. I doubt I will get a Japanese car (I have my reasons that are not relevant to this conversation), but I will certainly be looking at other options when the M4 lease comes due and the probability of me getting a non-BMW product just increased significantly. This is from a guy who is on his 23rd BMW.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

neilsarkar said:


> And once you go down the BMW price chain, there are some compelling non-BMW alternatives in the 40k - 60k price range.


Very true....


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> I have confirmed that the MAP program has adjusted to .18 cents a mile effective January 1, 2016. They also took away the option, as far as I can see, to buy the miles right before lease turn-in. Now it is back to miles must be purchased by 4 months prior to lease turn-in.


According to BMW's website ( BMWUSA.com ) "...you can purchase additional miles at a discounted rate. You can do so at any point up until one day prior to your scheduled lease maturity date or the day you're turning in your vehicle, if you're planning to do so before the maturity date arrives."

If that has changed, then they forgot to update their website.

Okay, now I have a question to ask. When you confirmed that the Mileage Adjustment Program has adjusted to 18 cents a mile effective January 1, 2016 did you make it clear to the person you asked that you were talking about a current lease on the books prior to January 1, 2016? Perhaps they thought you were asking about current policy that went into effect January 1, 2016 for all contracts dated that date and after?

I can guarantee you that they cannot change any of the terms that are printed on your existing lease contract and I am assuming that lease contracts still show the penalty for extra miles. If they no longer show that, then I stand corrected. *If* your existing lease contract does show the penalty for each extra mile, then it seems to me that your discount would be still based on that penalty and not the new penalty because that would be dumb and definitely not something they ever did before when increasing the mileage penalty. So I'm asking you to be sure to make clear to the person you ask that you're asking about an existing lease. Unless I'm wrong here and all you're interested in is a new lease opened after Dec. 31, 2015?

This is a question that can probably be best answered by talking to BMW Financial Services directly *if* you have an open lease with them.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

Ninong said:


> According to BMW's website ( BMWUSA.com ) "...you can purchase additional miles at a discounted rate. You can do so at any point up until one day prior to your scheduled lease maturity date or the day you're turning in your vehicle, if you're planning to do so before the maturity date arrives."
> 
> If that has changed, then they forgot to update their website.
> 
> ...


Ninong. My comments were directed at the MAP program only. If you have a BMWFS account, go into your account under mybmw and you will see the clear wording regarding buying the miles "Don't delay. This service is available to you until you reach 4 months from the end of your lease. So purchase your additional miles today". Also, my contract says .20 cents for every extra mile and that obviously cannot change. What has changed is that MAP mileage is now .18 cents a mile. Trying buying extra miles (if you have a BMWFS lease) and you will see the charge is .18 cents per mile.


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## hamlyn (Aug 26, 2007)

sampatel1 said:


> How does this policy affect you in anyway? This is for newer cars and if you buy your leased car you will be protected.
> As for leasing a new BMW, you will not have any issues as you still have the 3 year 36000 miles coverage and normally that should cover your lease term.


This is in responses to BMW's position on their policy and how it affects the buyer. When I buy a BMW with a three- or four-year maintenance plan built into the cost of the car, I am paying for it. It is not free. So when BMW tells me that I cannot transfer that paid-for benefit, it does not sit right with me. This has very little to do with dollars and cents and mostly to do with the overall unpleasant taste in my mouth.
When I buy a Porsche or Mercedes Benz and pay an additional cost for a maintenance plan, it is a transferable benefit. Whether it is an add-on or built-in service, I, the buyer, am paying for it. I expect to be able to transfer that benefit to the eventual buyer, if I should decide to sell the car. Otherwise, it affects the perceived value of the car.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

hamlyn said:


> This is in responses to BMW's position on their policy and how it affects the buyer. When I buy a BMW with a three- or four-year maintenance plan built into the cost of the car, I am paying for it. It is not free. So when BMW tells me that I cannot transfer that paid-for benefit, it does not sit right with me. This has very little to do with dollars and cents and mostly to do with the overall unpleasant taste in my mouth.
> When I buy a Porsche or Mercedes Benz and pay an additional cost for a maintenance plan, it is a transferable benefit. Whether it is an add-on or built-in service, I, the buyer, am paying for it. I expect to be able to transfer that benefit to the eventual buyer, if I should decide to sell the car. Otherwise, it affects the perceived value of the car.


That is a good point. So for MY16 with non-transferable 4-yr/50k free maintenance, will a purchase of extended maintenance make the original free maintenance transferable, or even the extended maintenance itself is non-transferable?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> Ninong. My comments were directed at the MAP program only.


And my answer is directed at the MAP program only. 



> If you have a BMWFS account, go into your account under mybmw and you will see the clear wording regarding buying the miles "Don't delay. This service is available to you until you reach 4 months from the end of your lease. So purchase your additional miles today".


What they're talking about is your opportunity to purchase additional miles and have the charge spread out equally among your remaining lease payments. Before you even get to that wording, you should find an opening paragraph that explains *how it works*.

In that *how it works* paragraph you will find the exact wording I quoted above. In other words, you still have up until one day prior to turning your car in to purchase additional miles. That has not changed. At least that's still on the BMWUSA.com website in the BMW Financial Services section. So if that is what they are currently offering, even on brand new leases, why would they not offer that on existing accounts? 



> Also, my contract says .20 cents for every extra mile and that obviously cannot change. What has changed is that MAP mileage is now .18 cents a mile. Trying buying extra miles (if you have a BMWFS lease) and you will see the charge is .18 cents per mile.


Yes, if your contract says 20 cents per mile (.20 cents would be 2 mills per mile and BMWFS would bounce the contract back to the dealer for correction  ), that cannot change. So my question remains, if your previous discount for prepayment of miles was 16 cents per mile are you *positive* that the person you spoke to knows what he/she is talking about when they said it would be increased to 18 cents? Sure, I guess it's possible that they might change something like that but if they did, it just means they're being jerks for changing an existing policy on an existing contract.

If it's true that they did that, then they're bringing the discount into line with whatever their new discount policy will be. They're quoting you 10% off the 20 cents per mile penalty, so is 10% the new discount on the 25 cents/mile and 30 cents/mile leases?

That's not something they usually do. They usually leave existing leases alone because they could have offered someone 16 cents a couple of weeks ago and then when he goes back to do it they would have to tell him that they changed their minds and it's now 18 cents.

When stuff changes, sometimes not everyone is up-to-date on exactly what changed. So sometimes you have to double-check what they're telling you, that's all. No I don't have an open account.


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## hamlyn (Aug 26, 2007)

namelessman said:


> That is a good point. So for MY16 with non-transferable 4-yr/50k free maintenance, will a purchase of extended maintenance make the original free maintenance transferable, or even the extended maintenance itself is non-transferable?


I am not sure; however, your non-transferable 4-yr/50k free maintenance is not free. It may seem free, but it is built into the cost of your vehicle.

Another point is this: when BMW builds the 4-yr/50k free maintenance into the cost of the car, they ensure that BMW maintains their cars until those plans expire. By charging people additional fees to provide maintenance, BMW risks sending their customers to other, non-BMW, non-certified centers for planned maintenance beyond 36K miles. Mercedes and Porsche have pre-paid maintenance plans that, on the surface, do not appear to be worthwhile purchases. From what I have researched, many choose to forego the prepaid maintenance plans as they do not see value in them. Just my $.02.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

hamlyn said:


> I am not sure; however, your non-transferable 4-yr/50k free maintenance is not free. It may seem free, but it is built into the cost of your vehicle.
> 
> Another point is this: when BMW builds the 4-yr/50k free maintenance into the cost of the car, they ensure that BMW maintains their cars until those plans expires. By charging people additional fees to provide maintenance, BMW risks sending their customers to other, non-BMW, non-certified centers for planned maintenance beyond 36K miles. Mercedes and Porsche have pre-paid maintenance plans that, on the surface, do not appear to be worthwhile purchases. From what I have researched, many choose to forego the prepaid maintenance plans as they do not see value in them. Just my $.02.


All of your points are applicable and I can only assume that BMW considered all the pros and cons before finally caving in to market pressure and adopting a posture more in line with their major competitors. Don't forget that all of this is applicable to the US only because we're their only market that was spoiled like this. 

First they trimmed the European Delivery discount from 7% down to 5% and now they're changing their approach to what is included in their complimentary maintenance and cutting it. Good move? Bad move? Who knows? I sure hope BMW knows because 2016 is looking scary right now, although 2017 should be better, assuming no worldwide recession by then.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

hamlyn said:


> Another point is this: when BMW builds the 4-yr/50k free maintenance into the cost of the car, they ensure that BMW maintains their cars until those plans expires. By charging people additional fees to provide maintenance, BMW risks sending their customers to other, non-BMW, non-certified centers for planned maintenance beyond 36K miles. Mercedes and Porsche have pre-paid maintenance plans that, on the surface, do not appear to be worthwhile purchases. From what I have researched, many choose to forego the prepaid maintenance plans as they do not see value in them. Just my $.02.


The vast majority of BMW dealers' CPO cars are lease returns. The vast majority of leases are 3/36. The vast majority of potential CPO vehicles will still be returned having all their maintenance performed by BMW dealers.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> That still increases the cost of mileage significantly...,





namelessman said:


> For another extra $0.02 per mile($0.18 instead of $0.16), the extra cost for 40k miles is less than $1k, right? That is still pretty good especially on a M car.


Most excess mileage buyers are probably not more than 6,000 miles over their allocation. The increase would equate to $120.



justinnum1 said:


> i hope bmw takes a big hit, getting greedy like this.


They won't.


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

The loss of that 1 year of maintenance is, in itself, not a huge thing. Ive felt that it had already become devalued due to the extended periods and 'lifetime'fluid recommendations. (Guess I am still old school.) Still it is always difficult to have something taken away.
But couple this with decreases in performance, increases in msrp, high option prices and package content, and reduction in Euro delivery discounts and I am beginning to feel gouged.
Bmw has lost its way in recent years seemingly controlled more by marketing and accounting factors. With sales records being broken, it doesn't seem to matter.
Better make use of that BMWCCA discount while you can.


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

First-time owner here. The maintenance was a huge buying point for me. This is really disappointing and while my plan was to stay a BMW owner for life, I think when my lease is up I will have to look at other brands. BMW please rethink this, this is NOT the way to groom lifetime buyers.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

tturedraider said:


> Most excess mileage buyers are probably not more than 6,000 miles over their allocation. The increase would equate to $120.


Actually 6,000 miles at 20 cents per mile = $1,200.00. 

*Nevermind!* I guess you're talking about the 2 cents per mile increase = $120.00.

Oops!


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> What has changed is that MAP mileage is now .18 cents a mile. Trying buying extra miles (if you have a BMWFS lease) and you will see the charge is .18 cents per mile.


This sounds plausible, especially when the contract only lists $0.20/mile as lease end penalty, while the mileage adjustment program is separate(and can be changed by BMWFS without affecting the existing contracts).


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Ninong said:


> AIf it's true that they did that, then they're bringing the discount into line with whatever their new discount policy will be. They're quoting you 10% off the 20 cents per mile penalty, so is 10% the new discount on the 25 cents/mile and 30 cents/mile leases?


My recollection is that 7-series penalty is $0.25/mile, but the discount is only $0.22/mile before any change. Which model(s) has $0.30/mile, maybe M6?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

namelessman said:


> My recollection is that 7-series penalty is $0.25/mile, but the discount is only $0.22/mile before any change. Which model(s) has $0.30/mile, maybe M6?


All 6-series and all 7-series lease offers shown on the BMWUSA.com website show a 30 cents per mile penalty. The X6 is still 25 cents per mile and the M6 simply says contact dealer.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

pistolpuma said:


> The loss of that 1 year of maintenance is, in itself, not a huge thing. Ive felt that it had already become devalued due to the extended periods and 'lifetime'fluid recommendations. (Guess I am still old school.) Still it is always difficult to have something taken away.
> But couple this with *decreases in performance, increases in msrp, high option prices and package content*, and reduction in Euro delivery discounts and I am beginning to feel gouged.


To paraphrase Mark Twain, reports of the death of BMW's performance are greatly exaggerated. BMW's motors are more powerful than they've ever been and they get better fuel economy than ever; better, in fact, than virtually every single one of their competitors. Leather trim and seats have the same price today they did on the E46, as do quite few other options. Their navigation system has continuously improved in performance and continually decreased in price. There are many features that are standard now that were optional on the E9x and not even available on the E46.

Maybe a few folks will care to refresh their memories of BMW's storied performance through the years - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=869983&highlight=
It seems all is not lost at BMW - http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a26978/2016-bmw-340i-first-drive/

Adjusted for inflation BMWNA prices for the 3er are in the same range they were in the year 2000. In fact, adjusted for inflation, current 3er prices are actually lower than they were in the E30 & E36 eras.



frank325 said:


> If anyone else is curious like I was, here are the 3's in the videos, their base price at the time, and the same adjusted for inflation in 2015 dollars. Hopefully I got everything right. If I typed something wrong, my bad. I got the 2015 $ equivalents at usinflationcalculator.com.
> 
> YEAR/MODEL__________BASE PRICE__2015 DOLLARS
> 
> ...


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

pistolpuma said:


> The loss of that 1 year of maintenance is, in itself, not a huge thing. Ive felt that it had already become devalued due to the extended periods and 'lifetime'fluid recommendations. (Guess I am still old school.) Still it is always difficult to have something taken away.
> But couple this with decreases in performance, increases in msrp, high option prices and package content, and reduction in Euro delivery discounts and I am beginning to feel gouged.
> Bmw has lost its way in recent years seemingly controlled more by marketing and accounting factors. With sales records being broken, it doesn't seem to matter.
> Better make use of that BMWCCA discount while you can.


My take is that all the mentioned perks cost money and they are priced into the MSRP/invoice. My wild guess is that, by gradually rolling back the perks, BMWNA's goal is to include additional options as standard with similar MSRP/invoice, e.g. including driver assist packages and Nav in base cars.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Ninong said:


> According to BMW's website ( BMWUSA.com ) "...you can purchase additional miles at a discounted rate. You can do so at any point up until one day prior to your scheduled lease maturity date or the day you're turning in your vehicle, if you're planning to do so before the maturity date arrives."
> 
> If that has changed, then they forgot to update their website.
> 
> ...


As opposed to a global .25 per mile at lease end now.

>>Offer not valid in Puerto Rico. Lease financing available on new 2016 BMW 340i Sedan from participating BMW centers on leases assigned to BMW Financial Services through February 01, 2016. Monthly lease payments of $489.00 for 36 months based on MSRP of $46,795.00. $4,414.00 cash due at signing is based on $3,000.00 down payment, $489.00 first month payment, $925.00 acquisition fee, and $.00 security deposit (not all customers will qualify for security deposit waiver). Tax, title, license, registration and dealer fees are additional fees due at signing. Program available from participating BMW dealers to eligible, qualified customers with excellent credit history who meet BMW Financial Services credit requirements. Payments do not include applicable taxes. All figures presented are examples only. Actual MSRP may vary.* Lessee responsible for insurance during the lease term and any excess wear and tear as defined in the lease contract, $0.25/mile over 10,000* miles per year and a disposition fee of $350 at lease end.


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## hamlyn (Aug 26, 2007)

tturedraider said:


> BMW's motors are more powerful than they've ever been and they get better fuel economy than ever.


Just about every car on the market today, to varying degrees, has improved performance and gas mileage due to standards set by the government.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

pony_trekker said:


> As opposed to a global .25 per mile at lease end now.


I'm not sure I understand this statement. What do you mean by "global .25 cents per mile at lease end now?" What you copied below is the lease disclosure for a new BMW 3-series car. That mileage penalty is not applicable to all BMW models.



> >>Offer not valid in Puerto Rico. Lease financing available on new 2016 BMW 340i Sedan from participating BMW centers on leases assigned to BMW Financial Services through February 01, 2016. Monthly lease payments of $489.00 for 36 months based on MSRP of $46,795.00. $4,414.00 cash due at signing is based on $3,000.00 down payment, $489.00 first month payment, $925.00 acquisition fee, and $.00 security deposit (not all customers will qualify for security deposit waiver). Tax, title, license, registration and dealer fees are additional fees due at signing. Program available from participating BMW dealers to eligible, qualified customers with excellent credit history who meet BMW Financial Services credit requirements. Payments do not include applicable taxes. All figures presented are examples only. Actual MSRP may vary.* Lessee responsible for insurance during the lease term and any excess wear and tear as defined in the lease contract, $0.25/mile over 10,000* miles per year and a disposition fee of $350 at lease end.


That's for a 2016 BMW 340i effective January 5, 2016. Twenty-five cents per mile is the new penalty for all 1, 2, M235, 3, 4, 5, X1, X3, X4, X5, X6, Z4 and i3 models. Those were increased from 20 cents to 25 cents effective Jan. 5, 2016.

The 6, M3, M4, M5, M6, X5M, X6M and i8 increased from 20 cents to 30 cents.

The 7 and Alpina increased from 25 cents to 30 cents.


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## cha777 (Sep 19, 2006)

What's all the hubbub bub? The market will decide whether or not this is a successful move. Remember sometime in the past (I believe late 80's/early 90's) when BMW tried the "No Dicker Sticker" like Saturn? We all know how long that program (and Saturn) lasted. BMW is making bank and I used to see value in their vehicles; when I compare what else is on the market when I shop for my next vehicle we'll see if BMW still comes out on top. If the MY17 vehicles don't have some other plus (higher residual, lower MSRP, etc) the market will decide BMW's fate. The automotive press has been hard on BMW of late but BMW is like the honey badger and we all remember the story of the honey badger (NSFW):

https://youtu.be/4r7wHMg5Yjg


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

cha777 said:


> Remember sometime in the past (I believe late 80's/early 90's) when BMW tried the "No Dicker Sticker" like Saturn?


Yes, I remember the 1980's and 1990's and can assure you that BMW did not do that. Are you perhaps confusing BMW of North America with the policies of an individual franchisee? Some individual franchisees, especially some of the larger chain dealers, like to toy around with that model from time to time.


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## cha777 (Sep 19, 2006)

My mistake - perhaps not implemented but mulled-over by BMW leadership. I remember him saying this on television and at that time with no internet (or at least none as we know now) this was where the company was going:

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/USAToda...ion=&startpage=&desc=BMW+breaks+ground+in+USA


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## pistolpuma (Mar 22, 2007)

namelessman said:


> My take is that all the mentioned perks cost money and they are priced into the MSRP/invoice. My wild guess is that, by gradually rolling back the perks, BMWNA's goal is to include additional options as standard with similar MSRP/invoice, e.g. including driver assist packages and Nav in base cars.


I'd be fine with that, though the cynic in me says that ain't gonna happen. My guess would be the cost savings are intended to improve profits.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

cha777 said:


> My mistake - perhaps not implemented but mulled-over by BMW leadership. I remember him saying this on television and at that time with no internet (or at least none as we know now) this was where the company was going:
> 
> http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/USAToda...ion=&startpage=&desc=BMW+breaks+ground+in+USA


The Europeans have never fully appreciated the uniquely American concept of the independent franchised dealer network or the way motor vehicles are marketed in the United States. Of course all of that may gradually change thanks to the tireless efforts of South African-born Tesla CEO Elon Musk.


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## 9jabimmer (Jun 22, 2011)

One question I have about this proposed change is weather BMW will add back in the coverage for brakes, clutch, etc IF you pay for the maintenance plan upgrade (MPU)


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Ninong said:


> I'm not sure I understand this statement. What do you mean by "global .25 cents per mile at lease end now?" What you copied below is the lease disclosure for a new BMW 3-series car. That mileage penalty is not applicable to all BMW models.
> 
> That's for a 2016 BMW 340i effective January 5, 2016. Twenty-five cents per mile is the new penalty for all 1, 2, M235, 3, 4, 5, X1, X3, X4, X5, X6, Z4 and i3 models. Those were increased from 20 cents to 25 cents effective Jan. 5, 2016.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I was inarticulate. Point is nothing is .20 any more.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

pistolpuma said:


> I'd be fine with that, though the cynic in me says that ain't gonna happen. My guess would be the cost savings are intended to improve profits.


We think alike.


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## alewifebp (Sep 20, 2008)

This all makes sense given announcements by the company. If anyone remembers, a few years ago there were some announcements by BMW that they wanted to increase margins, even with sales on the steady increase. They want to sell a lot and make more money on each unit. The market in the end will determine if this strategy works for them. As a luxury good, it has more of chance of it working compared to say Kia deciding that they want to increase margins. They will do it on the opposite end and squeeze suppliers, since the price elasticity that they have is very low.

I'll file this situation on the it was fun while it lasted. No one wants to pay more, either by lowering value or by price increases, but any company has at its core a contradictory mantra about price. Charge as much as you can, while consumers want to pay as little.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

pony_trekker said:


> Sorry, I was inarticulate. Point is nothing is .20 any more.


You're right. Nothing is 20 cents anymore, it's either 25 cents or 30 cents and not 10 cents or 15 cents like it was when the new, hand-built M5 first came out with a total MSRP of less than $45,000.


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## ptr727 (Jul 9, 2010)

How does this affect purchasing extended maintenance plans, now vs. right before 4 years expires?
I.e. if I buy an extra 2 years now vs. right before the 4 years lapse, will I get brakes included now and then?


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

ptr727 said:


> How does this affect purchasing extended maintenance plans, now vs. right before 4 years expires?
> I.e. if I buy an extra 2 years now vs. right before the 4 years lapse, will I get brakes included now and then?


If you buy a 2016 the brakes will be included. If you by a 2017 they will not. I assume the extended maintenance plan will not include brakes but I don't believe those programs have been rolled out yet.

Tim


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

tim330i said:


> If you buy a 2016 the brakes will be included. If you by a 2017 they will not. I assume the extended maintenance plan will not include brakes but I don't believe those programs have been rolled out yet.
> 
> Tim


My hunch is that the Maintenance Plan Upgrades for the 2017 models will include brakes. My hunch is that they will probably mimic the previously complimentary maintenance plans by adding stuff as well as extending the time and miles. Additionally, I have a hunch that there will be some way that part of the cost of the new MPU on a new 2017 lease can be residualized.

Think of it this way. Oh, don't worry Mr. Customer, for just $1,295 more I can give you the same total coverage you would have had on a new 2016 and it will only add about $25 to your payment. (That's assuming it is partially residualized.) That's just a wild number I pulled out of thin air. Might be less, might be more, and might even vary by region or something because labor rates vary dramatically between, let's say, San Francisco, and the states of the Old South. It will be interesting to see how they address that issue. Unless they decide that one-size-fits-all and the dealers will just have to live with it.

That's just a guess on my part.


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## jhm5 (Jan 8, 2016)

I think it's pretty cheap of BMW to not even include wiper refills in the new 2017 maintenance plan, but that said, why would you buy an extended maintenance plan from BMW? Pay as you go for maintenance would likely be cheaper and you can shop around to find a competent independent BMW specialist, if you're not happy with the dealer, or you could DIY for fun and savings. Are you sure you're going to keep your car the length of the maintenance contract? I can see that an extended warranty might offer some folks (not me) comfort, but paying BMW to extend your maintenance plan makes no financial sense to me. How many people actually needed brake jobs within the first 4years/50k miles?


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Maintenance Plan for 2017 MY and beyond:

"All new MY17 BMW vehicles and newer will come with BMW Ultimate Care. BMW Ultimate Care consists of scheduled maintenance for the 3-year/36,000 mile (non-transferable), whichever comes first. The following items are included in BMW Ultimate Care


Engine Oil
Engine Filter
Brake Fluid
Cabin Micro Filter(s)
Engine Air Filter(s)
Spark Plugs
Remote Control/Key Battery
Vehicle Check
Fuel Filter (Diesel engines only)"

~M~


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> Maintenance Plan for 2017 MY and beyond:
> 
> "All new MY17 BMW vehicles and newer will come with BMW Ultimate Care. BMW Ultimate Care consists of scheduled maintenance for the 3-year/36,000 mile (non-transferable), whichever comes first. The following items are included in BMW Ultimate Care
> 
> ...


What about the Maintenance Plan Upgrades? Have you seen those yet? What happens if you have a lease customer on a 2017 6-series? They started production last month? What do you tell him when he asks about adding the best possible MPU to his lease?

What about the 2017 Z4? Didn't they start production last month? What about the 2017 X3, didn't it start production this month?

Didn't they give you guys the new MPUs that they already published a couple of months ago? I saw them online at one time but then they were gone the next morning. Weird.

(P.S. -- Maybe it wasn't the MPUs, maybe it was just the packaged deals on maintenance that used to be free but is no longer included in the 2017 free maintenance program from BMW? Whatever it was, all the dealers had exactly the same headlines and logos and ad hype for the same maintenance but with varying prices depending on local labor rates. Then the next morning they were all gone?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

jhm5 said:


> I think it's pretty cheap of BMW to not even include wiper refills in the new 2017 maintenance plan, but that said, why would you buy an extended maintenance plan from BMW? Pay as you go for maintenance would likely be cheaper and you can shop around to find a competent independent BMW specialist, if you're not happy with the dealer, or you could DIY for fun and savings. Are you sure you're going to keep your car the length of the maintenance contract? I can see that an extended warranty might offer some folks (not me) comfort, but paying BMW to extend your maintenance plan makes no financial sense to me. How many people actually needed brake jobs within the first 4years/50k miles?


It would all depend on your individual situation. If you're a low mileage driver who doesn't expect to need brakes done before time to turn in your car for a new one, then maybe you won't be interested in a maintenance plan upgrade. On the other hand, if you expect to put 40,000+ miles on the car before time to get another one, maybe you would want to ask about it, especially if part of it can be residualized on a lease.

If you're not on a lease, then the same logic applies. If you expect to keep it long enough that a longer and more inclusive maintenance plan upgrade makes sense, then it may be something to consider.

If you have a local indie shop that you patronize, then maybe you're won't be interested. Or maybe you'll still use the BMW dealer's service department but just prefer to pay-as-you-go, especially since you can just about be sure that they will come out with package deals at below standard rates for the service that used to be free. Just wait and see. I practically guarantee it.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

jhm5 said:


> I think it's pretty cheap of BMW to not even include wiper refills in the new 2017 maintenance plan, but that said, why would you buy an extended maintenance plan from BMW? Pay as you go for maintenance would likely be cheaper and you can shop around to find a competent independent BMW specialist, if you're not happy with the dealer, or you could DIY for fun and savings. Are you sure you're going to keep your car the length of the maintenance contract? I can see that an extended warranty might offer some folks (not me) comfort, but paying BMW to extend your maintenance plan makes no financial sense to me. How many people actually needed brake jobs within the first 4years/50k miles?


There is a certain group of people who feel more comfortable with the dealer doing all of the maintenance and they like the "certainty" of knowing the cost is already covered upfront.


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Ninong said:


> What about the Maintenance Plan Upgrades?


I'm sorry that I'm under a time constraint right now, but there is a change to the MPU program coming out this month. It's a matrix of time/term and coverage. I'll try to get more details out to you all.

The short answer is yes, for MPU upgrades, there will be an option to buy a plan that includes brake pads and rotors and wipers and clutch.

And, for 2017 model years moving forward, you can add "wear and tear" items to the base maintenance plan.

Details to come.

~M~


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

jhm5 said:


> I think it's pretty cheap of BMW to not even include wiper refills in the new 2017 maintenance plan, but that said, why would you buy an extended maintenance plan from BMW? Pay as you go for maintenance would likely be cheaper and you can shop around to find a competent independent BMW specialist, if you're not happy with the dealer, or you could DIY for fun and savings. Are you sure you're going to keep your car the length of the maintenance contract? I can see that an extended warranty might offer some folks (not me) comfort, but paying BMW to extend your maintenance plan makes no financial sense to me. How many people actually needed brake jobs within the first 4years/50k miles?


For those who track their cars, or who ride their brakes going downhill, the free brake jobs of pre-MY17 maintenance programs are quite useful.

Including brakes + wipers + clutch in free maintenance is a selling point to some. E.g. a friend specifically purchased a Volvo during their summer sales event, which included *5-year*/50k maintenance(including brakes + wipers, not sure about clutch) and warranty. At one point Volvo threw in *6-year/60k* maintenance + warranty for their summer sales! :thumbup:


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