# Three marques will be F1 history at the end of this year



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

As all good things must come to an end, three F1 teams will cease to exist at the end of this year (at least their names)

Sauber
Minardi
Jordan



A brief history of Minardi

Jordan History

35 years of Sauber Motorsport


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Sad day indeed.

Jordan was always a favorite of mine for being such a succesful upstart.

And Sauber will always be remembered for the Silver Arrows Mercedes LeMans entries.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

I already miss Eddie Jordan, he and his team gave me some incredible memories:
Spa 1998 - I still have a tape of this race!
Monza 1999 - Mika crying in the woods after he crashed his McLaren and Frentzen becoming a contender for the title.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

the whole series will be in the gutter eventually


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

LmtdSlip said:


> Sad day indeed.
> 
> Jordan was always a favorite of mine for being such a succesful upstart.
> 
> *And Sauber will always be remembered for the Silver Arrows Mercedes LeMans entries.*


True, orange side mirrors were trademark


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I know about Sauber and the Minardi but what is happening to Jordan?

And yes Jordan will be missed, one of the few lower standing teams that when things feel into place, could actually compete with the big boys. I guess F1 is all about the auto manufactures now, except for the Red Bull team.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Artslinger said:


> I know about Sauber and the Minardi but what is happening to Jordan?
> 
> And yes Jordan will be missed, one of the few lower standing teams that when things feel into place, could actually compete with the big boys. I guess F1 is all about the auto manufactures now, except for the Red Bull team.


Eddie Jordan sold his team in January to Russian born Canadian Alex Shnaider. The team is called Jordan only this season and will become Midland F1 next year. I wish they changed the name before they became a joke of the pitlane.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Eddie Jordan sold his team in January to Russian born Canadian Alex Shnaider. The team is called Jordan only this season and will become Midland F1 next year. I wish they changed the name before they became a joke of the pitlane.


Thanks, can't believe I missed that since I've watched 95% of the races this season.


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## LoneStarM3 (May 12, 2005)

TeamM3 said:


> the whole series will be in the gutter eventually


You didn't say why?? I suspect you might be right. The rule change requiring one set of tires per weekend could be the reason.

It cuts the pit crews and the excitement of pit action to almost nothing. Now they only replace damage wings and put in fuel. The only excitement is when a fuel nozzle gets stuck and wastes a couple of seconds...

But most important, it forces the fans to watch a race that is focused on careful tire conservation rather than "go for it" racing.

A side "benefit" is it makes the race more dangerous. Kimi's disaster at Nurmbergring for example. Unless F1 fans develope the "demolition derby" mentality of Nascar, which hopefully won't happen, it can only get worse.....

Hopefully the rulemakers will see this, if not the drivers and the fans should get together and wage a public information war about it....


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## LoneStarM3 (May 12, 2005)

TeamM3 said:


> the whole series will be in the gutter eventually


You didn't say why?? I suspect you might be right. The rule change requiring one set of tires per weekend could be the reason.

It cuts the pit crews and the excitement of pit action to almost nothing. Now they only replace damage wings and put in fuel. The only excitement is when a fuel nozzle gets stuck and wastes a couple of seconds...

But most important, it forces the fans to watch a race that is focused on careful tire conservation rather than "go for it" racing.

A side "benefit" is it makes the race more dangerous. Kimi's disaster at Nurmbergring for example. Unless F1 fans develope the "demolition derby" mentality of Nascar, which hopefully won't happen, it can only get worse.....

Hopefully the rulemakers will see this, if not the drivers and the fans should get together and wage a public information war about it....


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## coelacanth (Jul 5, 2005)

Artslinger said:


> I know about Sauber and the Minardi but what is happening to Jordan?
> 
> And yes Jordan will be missed, one of the few lower standing teams that when things feel into place, could actually compete with the big boys. I guess F1 is all about the auto manufactures now, except for the Red Bull team.


Don't forget about Williams! I'm glad that they're getting additional funding from Jenson Button.

I like rooting for the underdogs, but with Mclaren Mercedes and a BMW factory team on the track it's hard to root for anyone else! :thumbup:

At the driver level, I never liked Alonso, but after this season I've got to admit; the guy is amazing! You've got to give him respect for fending off Schuey at Imola...that was intense made even more so by the fact that it was the F2005's first race. That was truly a classic drive for Alonso and one of the hilights of the season for me.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

coelacanth said:


> Don't forget about Williams! I'm glad that they're getting additional funding from Jenson Button.
> 
> I like rooting for the underdogs, but with Mclaren Mercedes and a BMW factory team on the track it's hard to root for anyone else! :thumbup:
> 
> At the driver level, I never liked Alonso, but after this season I've got to admit; the guy is amazing! You've got to give him respect for fending off Schuey at Imola...that was intense made even more so by the fact that it was the F2005's first race. That was truly a classic drive for Alonso and one of the hilights of the season for me.


Yikes 

I forgot about the once great Williams team, losing BMW's backing and HP as a sponser, and on top of that will be running a second rate engine next year.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

TeamM3 said:


> the whole series will be in the gutter eventually


what does it mean?


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

LoneStarM3 said:


> You didn't say why?? I suspect you might be right. The rule change requiring one set of tires per weekend could be the reason.
> 
> It cuts the pit crews and the excitement of pit action to almost nothing. Now they only replace damage wings and put in fuel. The only excitement is when a fuel nozzle gets stuck and wastes a couple of seconds...
> 
> ...


One tire rule will likely be changed as soon as we go to control tire, the end of the tire war is coming probably as soon as 2008 season.

The best thing that can happen for Formula 1 is Max Mosley's retirement.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

And there goes the end of tire development.

I was reading one driving book/life story of a former top driver (I forget which one) but they drove non-spec tire, spec tire, then non-spec in teh same series. They even comented on how much better tires got when they went back to competition.

F1 should NOT be a spec series in any way, shape, or form. It should be the ultimate road racing series in the world. And that requires constant development.

If they want to control costs, stop changing things around. Change costs money. You have to research, develop, test, refine for each change. The switch to 2.4l V8s is going to cost more than several more seasons of running the current engine, then you will still have the race to race costs.

STUPID.

Max needs to go. He was a turf back in 1994 and he is still one. In 1994 he placed changes on the cars after the Senna crash that were not based on engineering, and cost the low end temas bunches of moeny, and made them even slower compared to the top temas, who spent bunches of moeny on wind tunnel work.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> And there goes the end of tire development.
> 
> I was reading one driving book/life story of a former top driver (I forget which one) but they drove non-spec tire, spec tire, then non-spec in teh same series. They even comented on how much better tires got when they went back to competition.
> 
> ...


How true, how true.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Max Mosley needs to go. You guys are right for sure. The dictatorship needs to end. The sooner the better.

The Williams situation is discouraging. They are slowly climbing out of their lost period. The fact that the Jenson Button buyout money might be needed next year to fund them is amazing, but true. Eddie Jordan's recent comments regarding Williams rejection of BMW are also interesting. Cosworth does have a lot of experience with V8's, but the money to develop their engine will only come from Williams and Red Bull. BMW will spend a much larger budget to develop their V8 and you would expect they would make rapid progress.


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Make it four marques. BAR has been completely bought out by Honda.

Link

Interesting tidbit in the article--there may be an 11th team in F1 next year.


> Meanwhile, Sato, who has lost his BAR seat for next season, said he had been offered a drive by an as-yet unnamed group hoping to establish F1's 11th team next year.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Autosport-Atlas is talking about Honda running a second team. Here's a quote:



> Autosport-Atlas understands that the Japanese car manufacturer are in the final stages of discussions about the new team, and it is possible that they may find a partner who can front the outfit for them - to further distance the team from a direct link as a Honda B-team.


I wonder what Williams is thinking about buying Cosworth motors if Honda wants to run a second team and yet is not interested in a relationship with them?


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

SteveT said:


> Cosworth does have a lot of experience with V8's, but the money to develop their engine will only come from Williams and Red Bull. BMW will spend a much larger budget to develop their V8 and you would expect they would make rapid progress.


You forget that Red Bull will have Ferrari Power next year... Williams will be the only big team with Cosworth motors next season, assuming that the Red Bull Minardi team also uses Ferrari power.

-MrB


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