# Price of diesel



## peteo (Apr 26, 2012)

This summer the price of primeium gas and diesel were pennies apart. While the price of gas has dropped since then diesel has stayed about the same here in NC. Is this just another case of the oil companies being greedy or is there actual technical reasons for the high price?


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Diesel prices are sticky (slow to rise and fall). In addition IIRC diesel pays a slightly higher fed or state tax when compared to gasoline.


----------



## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

In my neck of the woods diesel was closer to Mid Grade last summer.Historically,diesel is more expensive in the colder weather than in summer because of the home heating oil which is used extensively in the Northeast and,obviously,is in greatest demand from October to March or April.


----------



## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

Diesel price is "sticky" because much of the demand is commercial and doesn't vary as much as personal use.


----------



## henrycyao (Oct 23, 2012)

In Bay Area, the diesel costs more than Premium Gas currently by about $0.30 per gallon. It has been stick for a while. I believe it has to do with lack of demand. As the result, you get fewer update in price until the next fill. The gas station with more frequent visit of diesel tends to follow the gasoline price better. Still, it is more expensive than gas per gallon. Factoring in that 15% advantage, it is still economical to drive.


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Yesterday I noticed several stations in San Francisco -- along 19th ave -- with diesel at .40 cents a gallon higher than premium.:tsk:


----------



## DZLMAN (Mar 1, 2011)

Refining cost and demand of Diesel and Gasoline is not the same therefore at stations that cater to trucks or logistics business you will find diesel price to be either lower or closer to gasoline. Station with low volume of diesel sale it won't change as often as gasoline. Gasoline prices change as commodity trading and crude oil price fluctuates but diesel is purchased by the vendor/franchisee in bulk at a fix price hence no change. Hope this makes sense. Up here in Canada or at least southern Ontario diesel is 5 -6 cents per liter meaning 12 - 15 cents per gallon cheaper than gasoline most of the time.


----------



## János (Jun 19, 2010)

UncleJ said:


> Yesterday I noticed several stations in San Francisco -- along 19th ave -- with diesel at .40 cents a gallon higher than premium.:tsk:


I notice they are always hugely above - I'd never subsidize that! I typically go to the 76 in the Mission or to 3rd & Evans for the best prices (or East Bay).

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Bimmer App


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

We are exporting more diesel fuel than gasoline, refining more crude oil to meet diesel demand, and producing an excess of gasoline as a byproduct as a result. This actually drives the price of gasoline down, as well as the fact that the East Coast imports gasoline from European producers. The fact that we now have required Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel makes our refineries' product more marketable for export has made the diesel/gasoline price comparison lopsided. See this report from Exxon-Mobil:



> How does this work? Many Gulf Coast refiners are responding to the strong global demand for distillates by maximizing production of diesel fuel. They therefore buy and refine more barrels of oil than they would without that market demand for diesel. U.S. refiners can only get so much distillate from a barrel of crude oil ***8211; roughly 11 gallons out of a typical 42-gallon barrel, according to EIA data. Every barrel also yields about 19 gallons of gasoline. So when refiners process extra barrels in an attempt to help meet diesel fuel sales in the U.S. and overseas, they are coproducing extra gallons of gasoline. And given the American market is already well supplied with gasoline, that extra production helps put downward pressure on prices in the United States.


PL


----------



## gresch (May 14, 2005)

Diesel here in NJ is $3.79/gal at HESS, but ranges as high as $4.09, while 93 octane gas at Sunoco is $3.98.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Gasoline was once a waste product of kerosene production: http://www.wotwaste.com/waste-articles/industrial-waste/was-petrol-really-once-a-waste-product

"Before the automobile, nobody knew what to do with the light fraction of crude oil known as gasoline, and many refiners, under cover of dark, let the waste product run into the river. The noxious runoff made the Cuyahoga River so flammable that if steamboat captains shovelled glowing coals overboard, the water erupted in flames." Titan: The Life of John D Rockefeller, Ron Chernow, Random House, 1998

PL


----------



## peteo (Apr 26, 2012)

Thank you gentlemen for the education. Here, in Raleigh diesel is running 30 to 35 cents more then 93 octane. I paid basicly 4 bucks a gallon all summer and so it continues.


----------



## kungpao (Oct 10, 2012)

I would think that home heating season is upon us also so demand for oil in the cooler states is on the rise.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

*Distillate Market Tightness Continues in Northeast*



> Inventories of distillate fuel remain below seasonally typical levels in the Northeast, a region that includes New England and the Middle Atlantic states. Stocks of distillate fuel, including both diesel fuel and heating oil, are closely watched in this region, which is home to 80 percent of U.S. households that consume heating oil. As discussed in the October 11 edition of This Week in Petroleum (TWIP), the pull on distillate supplies from global markets and backwardation in heating oil prices for future delivery have both discouraged inventory builds in the Northeast. More recently, Hurricane Sandy disrupted shipments of petroleum products into the Northeast, further limiting distillate inventory builds. However, additional distillate fuel supplies are likely to become available in the region over the coming weeks with the restart of refineries in the New York Harbor area and an increase in shipments from the Gulf Coast.


http://www.eia.gov/oog/info/twip/twip.asp


----------



## railroader (Apr 12, 2010)

Earlier this year, maybe 2 months ago or so- D was the cheapest fuel on the station's number board;
less expensive than even the regular gasoline. That was a nice change (here in east San Diego county.)
But now diesel has migrated back to above Premium gas by 4 to 10 cents/gal. Another oddity- the little
off brand mom 'n pop station that usually had the cheapest diesel sells at exactly the same as mighty 
Chevron. So I always opt for the Chevron. BTW, getting terrific highway mileage lately with that fuel;
did a 300 mile fwy trip and the car's computer was telling me 37.9 and seemed to be ready to click to 38.
So I'm happy with my 335d; running stronger and smoother all the time!

_Aside:_ Regarding the Cuyahoga River story above- songwriter Randy Newman wrote a very ironic, 
and funny song about it on an album (late 60s-early 70s I think.) The song was called BURN ON BIG RIVER. 
Still play that "record."


----------



## torifile (May 4, 2011)

I'm getting sick of paying so much for diesel, honestly. It's a good $.40/gallon more. Sometimes more than that. On my trip to Augusta for thanksgiving, in SC, diesel was almost $1.00/gallon more than regular unleaded. We were driving my 335d for the fuel economy over my wife's SUV but at that type of price delta, it is not any cheaper if at all. I ran the numbers and I could be driving a nice spacious grand Cherokee for about the same cost per mile as my 335d. I know I didn't buy it to save money but...

I just need to get a JBD and remember why I did buy it!


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I paid $3.959 yesterday and regular gas was around $3.459, so $0.50 cheaper.

That is about 13% cheaper but you are still getting 20-30% more mpg for a comparable gas car, so it still "pays". Plus what is all that extra torque worth???:thumbup:


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

torifile said:


> I'm getting sick of paying so much for diesel, honestly. It's a good $.40/gallon more. Sometimes more than that. On my trip to Augusta for thanksgiving, in SC, diesel was almost $1.00/gallon more than regular unleaded. We were driving my 335d for the fuel economy over my wife's SUV but at that type of price delta, it is not any cheaper if at all. I ran the numbers and I could be driving a nice spacious grand Cherokee for about the same cost per mile as my 335d. I know I didn't buy it to save money but...
> 
> I just need to get a JBD and remember why I did buy it!


2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee: 17.9 mpg
2011 BMW 335d: 30.8 mpg

Cost to go 1000 miles:

[($3/gal)/(17.9 miles/gal)]x1000 miles = $167.60 for the Jeep
[($4/gal)/(30.8 miles/gal)]x1000 miles = $129.87 for the BMW

If you look just at highway mpg, the BMW may do even better.

PL


----------



## torifile (May 4, 2011)

Pierre Louis said:


> 2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee: 17.9 mpg
> 2011 BMW 335d: 30.8 mpg
> 
> Cost to go 1000 miles:
> ...


Unfortunately, I've never even approach upper 20's MPG in my car. I'm more like 24 or so.... I do lots of city driving so the numbers for both vehicles are on the high side. I suspect I'd get something like 16 in the GC. That would put me at about $187.5/1000 miles and $166/1000 miles in the GC and 335d respectively.

If I got the EPA estimates on both vehicles, however, it'd be cheaper to drive the GC.

That said, there's no way I'm going to do that trade. My wife has an SUV. We don't need two.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

torifile said:


> Unfortunately, I've never even approach upper 20's MPG in my car. I'm more like 24 or so.... I do lots of city driving so the numbers for both vehicles are on the high side. I suspect I'd get something like 16 in the GC. That would put me at about $187.5/1000 miles and $166/1000 miles in the GC and 335d respectively.
> 
> If I got the EPA estimates on both vehicles, however, it'd be cheaper to drive the GC.
> 
> That said, there's no way I'm going to do that trade. My wife has an SUV. We don't need two.


EPA city/highway/combined:

2012 Jeep GC 2wd w/6 cylinder: 17/23/19
2011 BMW 335d: 23/36/27

Cost of going 1000 miles w/ regular at $3 and diesel at $4:

Jeep: $176.47/130.43/157.89
BMW: $173.91/111.11/148.15

But the EPA is off by up to 20% in favor of gasoline vehicles, so the www.fuelly.com data is more realistic. If you get the V8 Jeep with 4WD, all bets are for the BMW.

PL


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> I paid $3.959 yesterday and regular gas was around $3.459, so $0.50 cheaper.
> 
> That is about 13% cheaper but you are still getting 20-30% more mpg for a comparable gas car, so it still "pays". Plus what is all that extra torque worth???:thumbup:


That is strange because diesel here is not much less than that but 87 octane gasoline here can be found under $3.00 ... Matter of fact just this morning a friend of mine was all super excited to be paying $2.75 for his gasoline ... he needs more excitement in his life.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Flyingman said:


> I paid $3.959 yesterday and regular gas was around $3.459, so $0.50 cheaper.
> 
> That is about 13% cheaper but you are still getting 20-30% more mpg for a comparable gas car, so it still "pays". Plus what is all that extra torque worth???:thumbup:


A comparable gas car takes premium not regular. The price difference around here is about $.19.

PL


----------



## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

Pierre Louis said:


> A comparable gas car takes premium not regular. The price difference around here is about $.19.
> 
> PL


+1
If you didnt get 335d you might have got something which drinks premium 91 octane fuel. So comparing to 87 gas doesnt make much of sense.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Agreed, very few gas cars that make decent power and run on 87 octane. Only one that even comes to mind is I think the newer 5.0L Mustangs made for the past few years but I could even be wrong on those.


----------



## torifile (May 4, 2011)

I haven't driven a gasser in 7 years so I'm out of the loop with cars that use regular gas. Is it really the case that any high-ish performance car will require mid grade or premium? I didn't not know that.... But the fact remains, diesel is lousy expensive right now.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

torifile said:


> I haven't driven a gasser in 7 years so I'm out of the loop with cars that use regular gas. Is it really the case that any high-ish performance car will require mid grade or premium? I didn't not know that.... But the fact remains, diesel is lousy expensive right now.


Most "highish performance" cars for quite sometime have specified premium fuel. Although with that said I think a number of the domestic offerings have for awhile been setup to run fine on 87. They will run better with up to 93 thanks to the joys of intelligent computers. A lot of the non domestic cars generate their power via turbos or superchargers, I am unsure if any of these are sold without a premium fuel warning. Actually has me wondering what the C250 and 328i require these days since they are both turbocharged.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Getting a 335d for fuel economy is not really the best choice. I had a diesel New Beetle with a manual 5 speed and averaged 42 mpg. The 335d is a hot rod with a bonus feature of freedom from the high price of fuel and compares favorably to many other cars.

Gasoline has become a byproduct of diesel refining as it was originally. What an irony, since even jet fuel is closer to diesel and more valuable than volatile gasoline.

The particulate matter that gasoline cars produce in their newly found direct injection form will be a sticking point for the morally bankrupt environmental lobby, since now we know a clean diesel is much safer than the cleanest gasoline car, and on a par with any current electric vehicle that gets its power from coal-fired generator plants.

So we will have diesel for a while and pay more, but not enough to erase the economic advantage. Wait until the 2 liter BMW 320d comes over to North America and then start comparing. Its barely a contest now with the relatively thirsty 335d but forget about it with a much more frugal 8 speed transmission in an F30 body with the smaller diesels.

PL


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I am just assuming here that anyone who bought a 335d for fuel economy reasons bought it because they wanted a certain level of performance with certain vehicle options but also cared about fuel consumption. So with that being the case I'd imagine not many of them compared to a Bug or any VW offering. 

The last two times I bought a car I looked at a wide range of vehicles as possible options. Each appealing to different desired completely. But I don't know many people who go after vehicles like I do. I always throw off the salesmen when they ask what other vehicles I am considering and I list of things that are in no way a direct competitor with their car.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Yeah, my choices were a base Boxster, a Mercedes E350 Bluetec, and the 335d. I wouldn't consider an M3 because of the horrible fuel economy and high price. I was looking for a sports car but loved diesel low end torque and economy.

Funny, but does anyone consider their 335d the closest thing to a diesel sports car on the market??

PL


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I bought the 335d because I felt it was a great compromise between a "fast" car and typical "diesel" car. If it were any slower or less responsive then if never even considered it.


----------



## torifile (May 4, 2011)

I came to the d from a different direction. My tdi was getting long in the tooth and I really wanted another diesel vehicle. I looked at the VW TDIs and I found them to be quite boring and uninspired. I needed bigger than the Golf I was driving but I had a really hard time enjoying the Jetta sportwagen. I still really dislike the way it looks. I drove the A3 and liked it ok. One day, I was surfing the web when I read about the 335d and had a couple hours to swing by the dealership. That was the big mistake. 

But I wasn't sold on the 335 until the dealer got a CPO with extended maintenance at right about the price I was willing to pay for a car. I was really close to buying an A3 tdi but it was too close in price to the 335. A side note: Audi dealers really are nuts with the prices they try to command for the A3 tdi. It's just a smaller JSW. I don't know what they're thinking. I notice the A3 tdi is missing from their diesel lineup and the long-rumored A4 never made it over either. I think VAG is probably having difficulty differentiating those offerings from the VW TDIs. Why buy an A3 when you could get the JSW for 5-7k less? Or why buy an A4 TDI when you could get a Passat for thousands less too?

But no new diesel from BMW kinda sucks.


----------



## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

torifile said:


> But no new diesel from BMW kinda sucks.


There are reports about My 2014 having lot of diesel offerings. I hope that is true.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I never could get interest in the a3 because it seemed to me to be a glorified VW Sportwagon


----------



## torifile (May 4, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> I never could get interest in the a3 because it seemed to me to be a glorified VW Sportwagon


It is. I prefer the hatchback styling to the longer wagon style though. Ultimately, it is the same car with a gussied up interior.


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

torifile said:


> It is. I prefer the hatchback styling to the longer wagon style though. Ultimately, it is the same car with a gussied up interior.


Oh, I love the looks of the A3 but the price difference and fact it is just a well dressed TDI Sportwagon killed my interest. Actually the T-egg TDI and diesel Porsche SUV have an almost similar effect on me.


----------



## torifile (May 4, 2011)

bimmerdiesel said:


> There are reports about My 2014 having lot of diesel offerings. I hope that is true.


I'll believe it when I see it. I don't know how long you all have been following diesels in the states, but I've been reading the news about diesel models coming (or not) to the States for the better part of a decade. I keep waiting for the flood of diesel models to come over this way but it never seems to happen. I've been a huge diesel fan since driving my first diesel when we visited Spain years ago. Since then, I've been jealous of all the options our euro friends have over there. Great, fun cars to drive that are also somewhat Eco friendly and responsible.


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

torifile said:


> I came to the d from a different direction. My tdi was getting long in the tooth and I really wanted another diesel vehicle. I looked at the VW TDIs and I found them to be quite boring and uninspired. I needed bigger than the Golf I was driving but I had a really hard time enjoying the Jetta sportwagen. I still really dislike the way it looks. I drove the A3 and liked it ok. One day, I was surfing the web when I read about the 335d and had a couple hours to swing by the dealership. That was the big mistake.
> 
> But I wasn't sold on the 335 until the dealer got a CPO with extended maintenance at right about the price I was willing to pay for a car. I was really close to buying an A3 tdi but it was too close in price to the 335. A side note: Audi dealers really are nuts with the prices they try to command for the A3 tdi. It's just a smaller JSW. I don't know what they're thinking. I notice the A3 tdi is missing from their diesel lineup and the long-rumored A4 never made it over either. I think VAG is probably having difficulty differentiating those offerings from the VW TDIs. Why buy an A3 when you could get the JSW for 5-7k less? Or why buy an A4 TDI when you could get a Passat for thousands less too?
> 
> But no new diesel from BMW kinda sucks.


The other thing that bites with the A3 TDI is you can't get it with quattro. Only A3 gasoline and auto trans can get quattro atleast when I was in the market 15 months ago. Now an A4 TDI would likely have quattro avaliable. I agree the A4 TDI is likely a unicorn in the NA market though. Its been a long term tease.


----------



## Sadi (Apr 10, 2011)

torifile said:


> I'll believe it when I see it. I don't know how long you all have been following diesels in the states, but I've been reading the news about diesel models coming (or not) to the States for the better part of a decade. I keep waiting for the flood of diesel models to come over this way but it never seems to happen. I've been a huge diesel fan since driving my first diesel when we visited Spain years ago. Since then, I've been jealous of all the options our euro friends have over there. Great, fun cars to drive that are also somewhat Eco friendly and responsible.


Maybe soon: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/06/future-us-bmw-diesel-plans-leaked/


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Sadi said:


> Maybe soon: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/06/future-us-bmw-diesel-plans-leaked/


I really wouldn't mind a 520d. At all.

PL


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

*Diesel finally coming down a little, what is bayoucity paying?*

Okay, I finally got a decent deal. $3.519/gallon at local chevron with cash card. Regular around here is about $3.059/gallon but super is $3.459/galllon. The spread between diesela nd super had been about 30 cent/gallon. Some of the other stations keep holding to $3.759 though.
@bayoucity, i know that Chevron close to you always has a better deal. What's your going rate lately?


----------



## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I pulled into a Buc Ee's south of sugarland last week and it was 3.39 if you got a car wash. Had I needed fuel then I'd done that even though it was raining. But a 30 cents per gallon savings works out to a decent amount when in my truck.


----------



## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

3.799 at the Texaco while everywhere else it's at 3.99 and up!


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Diesel appears to be relaxing prices a bit. $3.729 at last fillup in South Florida.

Regular was in the $3.45 range. Still loving the MPG!:thumbup:


----------



## ChasR (Aug 29, 2012)

Quick Trip is selling diesel for$3.76 to $3.78, while my favorite Chevron Station is selling it for $4.00. I'm going to have to brave the crowds at Quick trip if the Chevron station doesn't drop the price.


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Cheapest diesel I have found is $4.19 at a Shell station. Premium was $3.89.


----------



## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

around my area (N.Boston) price ranges from 3.99 to 4.19 and premium is around 3.69-3.89. I guess because of winter heating oil demand. From spring difference is usually -5 to 10 cents.


----------



## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

*Diesel @ $3.45/gal*

Found cheap diesel today at a Hess station in SC, $3.45/gallon. Haven't seen these prices in a while.

Exit 11 off I-20 outside Augusta, GA.


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Chevron in Pasa get down dena had diesel for 3.499/gal with cash card. Going rate locally is at 3.899/gal.


----------



## DBV (Sep 21, 2008)

Diesel is actually cheaper in Ohio in a lot gas stations now compared to regular. That is the first time I have seen that in a long time. Sure it will not last though - regular gas just went up a lot in the last week and diesel always seems slower to catch up.


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Kids out of school so summer driving season has started. As you say, gasoline price is more quick to rise. Main demand for diesel is the truckers which is all year long. We are a drop in the bucket in terms of consumption.


----------



## totitan (May 11, 2013)

Today in Thousand Oaks, CA (44 miles N of LA in Ventura County) RUG is 3.93 and diesel is 3.95. That is the closest I can remember seeing the prices in a long time.


----------

