# Where are the good lease deals at?



## omaralt (Jul 17, 2010)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I still maintain there are always going to be good deals -- just a little more work to obtain.
> 
> Look, here's what I'd tell a sales manager if he told me the similarly configured car that was $700/month last month is now $800/month: "BMW established the value at $700. What has improved about this car that makes it worth $100 more per month this month over last month?" The SM would counter that it has to do with cost of money and less favorable lease terms and lower/fewer incentives. To which I would reply, "Fine, let's just make sure that the selling price of the car is no higher than it was last month. If I have to pay a bit more interest I understand. But if the car, out the door, was worth $70,000 last month, I don't care that the incentives have changed, the underlying value of the car is the same, or less, as we are a month farther into the model year. So we need to get it at or below what it was worth last month, however you do it. Then I can decide if the extra rent charge is something I'm willing to pay as I understand the dealer doesn't set the buy rates."
> 
> My point being, WHAT A WILLING BUYER WILL PAY helps determine price -- if we don't buy, the incentives will return. And I'm not so sure there aren't back end and trunk incentives already in place or in the pipeline. They gotta move the metal. And China won't solve all of BMW's volume issues, nor will North American dealers watch their businesses collapse because Corporate wants less leasing. If customers ain't buying, dealers ain't selling. Gotta move da metal every day. Right?


unfortunately thats not how it works. most here can get a selling price of invoice + $500-$1k for most cars. that hasn't changed. the dealerships are still giving similar discounts. the difference (for me at least) was that 3 years ago i was able to add another $1500 in incentives + $1k in some driving event. i then added 7 MSDs. Then you add in a very favorable residual value of 65% and you have a great lease deal. None of those things are in the control of the dealership. So unless the dealership is willing to lose money to sell you the car, you will find it very difficult to get similar lease deals as in years past


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

1968BMW2800 said:


> if we don't buy, the incentives will return.


A vast majority of car see a car as a need rather than a want. So if you return a leased vehicle, it needs to be replaced by another vehicle. So there is usually a "buy" as part of that transaction somewhere. Be it new, used, leased etc. Rarely have I heard someone say they don't replace a car and walk or bus instead because leasing is too expensive.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

chrischeung said:


> A vast majority of car see a car as a need rather than a want. So if you return a leased vehicle, it needs to be replaced by another vehicle. So there is usually a "buy" as part of that transaction somewhere. Be it new, used, leased etc. Rarely have I heard someone say they don't replace a car and walk or bus instead because leasing is too expensive.


True, but _what_ one buys, and _how much_ one pays for that replacement are choices. If someone has to have a specific brand or specific model, and the price is high, then one pays the higher price. However, there are so many choices, and so many good cars from various brands, if one is willing to sleep around, love can be found in many places

I went shopping for a BMW SUV to replace a Range Rover. Ended up with a loaded, special ordered MINI Clubman S All4. Put a Dinan on it and we are having a blast with a car I never thought I'd consider. And, compared to BMW pricing, I feel like the MINI is a stolen car -- and I tend to drive it like it's stolen because it's so much friggin' fun. A world of possibilities that BMW's corporate decisions have, perhaps inadvertently, opened.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

omaralt said:


> unfortunately thats not how it works. most here can get a selling price of invoice + $500-$1k for most cars. that hasn't changed. the dealerships are still giving similar discounts. the difference (for me at least) was that 3 years ago i was able to add another $1500 in incentives + $1k in some driving event. i then added 7 MSDs. Then you add in a very favorable residual value of 65% and you have a great lease deal. None of those things are in the control of the dealership. So unless the dealership is willing to lose money to sell you the car, you will find it very difficult to get similar lease deals as in years past


Right. My conversation with the BMW SM regarding no longer available incentives would be to suggest that this is not my problem, but rather a result of a choice BMW has made. I understand that, instead of MSD's, I'll have to put that money to work elsewhere with either more risk for the high return, or less risk and a lower return. The additional $2,500 in special incentives you had in your pocket was, indeed, a special opportunity that BMW is not compelled to always offer. HOWEVER, the result of those 'incentives' was a _de facto_ reduction in the selling price -- the value if you will -- of the car. I'd tell the dealer he needs to deliver the same value proposition or I'll need to see what competing brands can do.

The REASON all the incentives have been there in the past is because, at full retail, the VALUE wasn't there for many buyers. The value proposition made sense to people when incentives lowered the cost to where the market felt it should be. So, the meta question remains: _What is the value of these cars? _ For different people, that calculus varies -- some will pay more for the badge, some won't. If enough won't pay more, the price, one way or another, will come down to meet the market.


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## MJBrown62 (Jun 15, 2016)

1968BMW2800 said:


> The value proposition made sense to people when incentives lowered the cost to where the market felt it should be. So, the meta question remains: _What is the value of these cars? _ For different people, that calculus varies -- some will pay more for the badge, some won't. If enough won't pay more, the price, one way or another, will come down to meet the market.


One could argue that the complicity of dealers and customers in driving down selling prices to invoice has been a big factor in diminishing the brand value.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

MJBrown62 said:


> One could argue that the complicity of dealers and customers in driving down selling prices to invoice has been a big factor in diminishing the brand value.


Add BMW to that list - for pushing production volumes over brand and profitability.

As with most right sizing, we'll see a lot of variation until the dust settles. I may just sit it out. In the end, I think if the markets move higher in price overall, people will pay up. Heck, people in other countries are used to paying more for BMWs and other cars, so why would they baulk in the USA?


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## Eagle11 (Oct 6, 2013)

chrischeung said:


> Add BMW to that list - for pushing production volumes over brand and profitability.
> 
> As with most right sizing, we'll see a lot of variation until the dust settles. I may just sit it out. In the end, I think if the markets move higher in price overall, people will pay up. Heck, people in other countries are used to paying more for BMWs and other cars, so why would they baulk in the USA?


Ok beating the same dead horse...

So you must be in the boat that all BMW need to drive and handle like E46... BMW found out that it could not say in business if they kept building cars like that.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

MJBrown62 said:


> One could argue that the complicity of dealers and customers in driving down selling prices to invoice has been a big factor in diminishing the brand value.


Agreed. But then, what is 'invoice?" What does invoice mean? When a fat double-digit margin was in play, many, many moons ago, there was a true wholesale and retail price, and lots of room for dealers to move within the ebb and flow of consumer demand.

Tight, artificial margins, all manner of back end and trunk arrangements, plus rebates and subvented lease rates, and ever-growing competition among brands, all contribute, and are, 'complicit' in creating today's complicated reality.

I still maintain good deals, whatever that means, are there to be negotiated.

But too much of the desire for BMW's has been generated not by the quality or uniqueness of the cars, but rather, by the low entry pricing -- a couple of grand and less than $400/month has gotten people in and allowed them to have the badge in their driveway instead of a Honda. More than price differentiates Hondas from BMW's, for sure. But how much of a difference, and at what price differential?

We drive the cars, not the deals. If we want the cars, some will pay a higher going rate. Time will tell.


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## HPIA4v2 (Mar 30, 2006)

MJBrown62 said:


> One could argue that the complicity of dealers and customers in driving down selling prices to invoice has been a big factor in diminishing the brand value.


Not beating dead horse, I am not sure one can equates brand-value to selling cars at invoice; BTW, I am not sure only dealers (especially customers) for selling/buying BMWs at invoice to be blamed here.

Brand-value is rather complex entity, no single factor defined it, but always rarity has to be main factor. I collect rare old LP, price always linear to how rare that record is same with rare coins etc

BMW fault for trying to push sale in the US to record level that dilute the brand, that's how I bought my E92 335i at $500 over invoice (before $1850 option credit and $500 BMW CCA). I bet there was trunk money from BMW to my dealer at that time. Is it dealer and my fault, for asking $500 over invoice? Would it help my E92 to have more prestige cause I paid MSRP compare to others who paid $500 over invoice?


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## mikeriley (Mar 20, 2008)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I still maintain there are always going to be good deals -- just a little more work to obtain.
> 
> Look, here's what I'd tell a sales manager if he told me the similarly configured car that was $700/month last month is now $800/month: "BMW established the value at $700. What has improved about this car that makes it worth $100 more per month this month over last month?" The SM would counter that it has to do with cost of money and less favorable lease terms and lower/fewer incentives. To which I would reply, "Fine, let's just make sure that the selling price of the car is no higher than it was last month. If I have to pay a bit more interest I understand. But if the car, out the door, was worth $70,000 last month, I don't care that the incentives have changed, the underlying value of the car is the same, or less, as we are a month farther into the model year. So we need to get it at or below what it was worth last month, however you do it. Then I can decide if the extra rent charge is something I'm willing to pay as I understand the dealer doesn't set the buy rates."
> 
> My point being, WHAT A WILLING BUYER WILL PAY helps determine price -- if we don't buy, the incentives will return. And I'm not so sure there aren't back end and trunk incentives already in place or in the pipeline. They gotta move the metal. And China won't solve all of BMW's volume issues, nor will North American dealers watch their businesses collapse because Corporate wants less leasing. If customers ain't buying, dealers ain't selling. Gotta move da metal every day. Right?


Very well said. We have become accustomed to 2 things, low lease payments AND knowing what the incentive pricing was. Now we have no idea what the incentives are and are being TOLD what to pay rather than telling the dealer what we know and what the payment will be. The dealers still have to sell, CAs have rent payments etc and need to move cars. Looks like we have To become the dreaded payment shopper and let them run their back end numbers to get to that payment.

Before we would know the numbers, add profit over invoice and come up with a payment say 700. We would not then ask for the payment to b 650. Now we can only base the price of our payments expectation on previous transactions i.e. Our last lease.

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## Jerseyal (Mar 9, 2013)

the new lease deals are awful. I think i'm likely to keep my car when the lease ends next year.


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## bikenski (Jun 16, 2002)

This thread is why I'm no longer driving a BMW after three in a row. Just can't justify a car payment equal to a mortgage. Not to mention the majority of the models no longer drive in a superior fashion compared to the competition to justify those higher prices. My 550 was a beast in a straight line, but a complete embarrassment from a handling and steering perspective.

Now I'm watching from the sidelines to see if anything interesting comes out at the right price point. The i3 is the best value prospect these days.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Eagle11 said:


> So you must be in the boat that all BMW need to drive and handle like E46... BMW found out that it could not say in business if they kept building cars like that.


Well, if BMW didn't do what they did, they'd be something like Mazda today. A niche player. Do you see Mazda making significant investments in autonomous driving, alternative fuels etc.? It's unknown if they will be able to remain independent in the future.

I'm likely going to switch to purchasing an M2, and leasing from Benz or Audi for the other car. Not purely because BMW lease rates are higher, although I would evaluate any car on its merits and value, but because I like diversity in the garage.

In terms of the leasing argument, M2s having never leased well, but still sell like hot cakes. So who knows, even with these higher lease rates, BMW may still meet their lowered sales expectations. I still think BMW has a lot going for them:

1. Great service offering compared to the opposition
2. Great cars
3. You can still work with a Bimmerfest sponsor for a deal (as opposed to having to find a new dealer)
4. Save on the lease disposition fee


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## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

BMW US sales were down 11% in May compared to last year. I wonder if this is what they had in mind when they started raising lease prices.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

alex2364 said:


> BMW US sales were down 11% in May compared to last year. I wonder if this is what they had in mind when they started raising lease prices.


Overall NEW CAR sales were down year over year through May, 2017, HOWEVER, used are reported up in May-- suggesting not only are there lots of good near-new Bimmers available, but that there may, in fact, be some incentives available to dealers linking used car sales to back end bonus $$.

We know that MINI USA has such incentives in place for dealers so one wonders if BMWNA is doing the same on the BMW side???


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## Kar Don (Aug 4, 2004)

Eagle11 said:


> I just leased a 2017 330i last night, and yes, things aren't what they were had a great talk with the CA, who has become a friend. He does not understand why BMW dropped the MSD's, since no other car manufacture hasn't. MF has risen and RV has dropped. The days of 66% RV on a 330i will never happen again, well unless something really happens and BMW need to move some cars. Now, I got a screaming deal on a service loaner 330i, MSRP was 47K and got it for a lot less then that with 4K miles. I'm not going to share #'s as I was asked not to, but I'm very happy with what I got. Granted, I waited until this end of the month to do the deal too.
> 
> Remember this you are likely to get a good deal on a car on the lot then when you order one, since the CA and dealership want to sell cars now not 2-3 months down the road.


Why not share? Chapman?


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I still maintain there are always going to be good deals -- just a little more work to obtain.


Just had a chat with a friend that works at a dealership. His lease is up in a few months- so he sat don't with the new car manager to see what they could do....

Same car- basic $55k car- lease goes from current $330 up to $510.

Apparently he hasn't 'worked' hard enough, nor with enough courtesy?

:angel:


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

ard said:


> Just had a chat with a friend that works at a dealership. His lease is up in a few months- so he sat don't with the new car manager to see what they could do....
> 
> Same car- basic $55k car- lease goes from current $330 up to $510.
> 
> ...


Wow! Your friend CLEARLY needs to be more courteous

Seriously, this is really bad news. I'd love to hear some CA's weigh in on how they're handling returning customers who are facing 60% potential increases in new leases. That is INSANE.

EDIT: But then again, $330 for a $55K car is too good -- it means that the $55K car was not actually worth $55K. The lease must have had an inflated residual and/or a very low MF and/or some heavy-duty incentives. Which bolsters the argument that the MSRP's on these cars were not truly reflective of their value in the marketplace at the time they were leased. Interesting issues arise from this.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

Reality:

BMW with a $55,000 MSRP loses about half its value after 3 years and 45,000 miles. At the end of a 36 month/45,000 mile lease the original warranty is almost exhausted and there's not much 'free' maintenance left and what is probably a second set of leasee-purchased tires will be showing some wear. So, assuming real world depreciation of 50%, a realistically residualized lease would have had a $27,500 residual, at best.

Assuming the cap cost on this car was discounted from MSRP to $50,600 (8% off of MSRP), depreciation would be 50,600 - 27,500 = 23,100, or $642/month JUST IN DEPRECIATION. So if generous incentives took care of all minimum drive offs, including lease acquisition fee, DMV, and first month payment, $642 + rent + tax would be a real world payment that makes sense IF the true value of the car was $50,600 at lease inception and the real world value 3 years and 45,000 miles later is $27,500.

So, 62 - 65% residuals and subvented money factors and deep discounts, which have been the norm in recent years, have established a much lower real world valuation of BMW's than what BMW appears to be reaching for now. But then, what is reality?


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## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

ard said:


> Just had a chat with a friend that works at a dealership. His lease is up in a few months- so he sat don't with the new car manager to see what they could do....
> 
> Same car- basic $55k car- lease goes from current $330 up to $510.
> 
> ...


The car must have been a loaner, demo, or executive vehicle because $330 for $55k is unbelievable. $510 for a $55k car is still a good deal when using the 1% rule.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

ard said:


> Just had a chat with a friend that works at a dealership. His lease is up in a few months- so he sat don't with the new car manager to see what they could do....
> 
> Same car- basic $55k car- lease goes from current $330 up to $510.:


Ya know, this one kinda stumped me.

$55,000 MSRP
$50,000 Adjusted Cap cost (whopping 10% discount from MSRP)
70% residual = $38,500
$50,000 - $38,500 = $11,500 depreciation
$11,500/36 months = $320 per month in depreciation alone.

So, did your friend get a 0.000 MF?
Did your friend get over 70% residual?
Is your friend paying no sales tax?
Did your friend have monster incentives applied to cap cost reduction on his deal, on top of a great discount?
Did your friend put massive cap reduction cash into the deal on the front end?
*What, exactly, was the magic that turned a $55,000 car into a $330 per month lease payment?*


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## omaralt (Jul 17, 2010)

This is an employee lease. They get much better deals


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

omaralt said:


> This is an employee lease. They get much better deals


I need to see the details on that deal, so I can ask for it next time I shop!


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## omaralt (Jul 17, 2010)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I need to see the details on that deal, so I can ask for it next time I shop!


lol if you're an employee you don't need to ask.


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## Eagle11 (Oct 6, 2013)

Kar Don said:


> Why not share? Chapman?


No, North Scottsdale Because the deal I got and I promised the CA, if you want contact Ty at Scottsdale BMW and work with him.


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## Eagle11 (Oct 6, 2013)

bikenski said:


> This thread is why I'm no longer driving a BMW after three in a row. Just can't justify a car payment equal to a mortgage. Not to mention the majority of the models no longer drive in a superior fashion compared to the competition to justify those higher prices. My 550 was a beast in a straight line, but a complete embarrassment from a handling and steering perspective.
> 
> Now I'm watching from the sidelines to see if anything interesting comes out at the right price point. The i3 is the best value prospect these days.


The i3 lease is OK, and if you don't drive a BMW what are you driving these days?


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

omaralt said:


> lol if you're an employee you don't need to ask.


Now THAT deal is courtesy on steroids


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

omaralt said:


> This is an employee lease. They get much better deals


Still stumped. Assuming this is an incredibly friendly employee lease, how does the employee deal sour with an over 50% increase in the new offer? Sounds like employees aren't being treated as _courteously_ as before.

I need data. ard???? Are you out there???


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## quackbury (Dec 17, 2005)

This is the guy who delivers those insanely good lease deals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oPVVGYQ40


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I need data. ard???? Are you out there???


I don't know the detals, nor would I ask. Just what he told me. For all I know there was some volume bonus on the first deal that made it work? Dunno. Might he be exaggerating? Dunno either, but he seemed genuinely annoyed ...


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

ard said:


> I don't know the detals, nor would I ask. Just what he told me. For all I know there was some volume bonus on the first deal that made it work? Dunno. Might he be exaggerating? Dunno either, but he seemed genuinely annoyed ...


Thanks for following up. Though your particular example doesn't really apply to the numbers for regular customers, I think we can agree about the current state of affairs for those who are facing new leases -- it is challenging.


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## HPIA4v2 (Mar 30, 2006)

I guess, the "honeymoon" era of BMW lease just enter the "7yr itch" period. :bigpimp:


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## Shon528 (Oct 3, 2003)

HPIA4v2 said:


> I guess, the "honeymoon" era of BMW lease just enter the "7yr itch" period. :bigpimp:


Ha! 7yr itch, do you bail on the marriage or do whatever it takes (read: whatever it costs) to stick it out and hope for better days?


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

MJBrown62 said:


> One could argue that the complicity of dealers and customers in driving down selling prices to invoice has been a big factor in diminishing the brand value.


But the same thing has happened over at MBZ and Audi so what is the difference?

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> But the same thing has happened over at MBZ and Audi so what is the difference?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


BMW, with strong world wide sales, is trying to do something about it?


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## BayAreaBMWFan (Aug 8, 2004)

With so many used cars coming off-lease BMW has to incentivize some new buyers towards used. Hence the pricing on the new is tightening, and the incentives would be moved to the lease resale market. With global sales booming, BMW can take some hit in the US new car sales.


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## Tim O'Brien (May 14, 2017)

ard said:


> Just had a chat with a friend that works at a dealership. His lease is up in a few months- so he sat don't with the new car manager to see what they could do....
> 
> Same car- basic $55k car- lease goes from current $330 up to $510.
> 
> ...


For the 2017 Center Employee Program BMWFS waives the security deposit and acquisition 
fee. The CEP incentives may be combined with existing Sales Support Programs. Maybe that's why the 55k lease was $330.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Tim O'Brien said:


> For the 2017 Center Employee Program BMWFS waives the security deposit and acquisition
> fee. The CEP incentives may be combined with existing Sales Support Programs. Maybe that's why the 55k lease was $330.


Security deposit doesn't affect payment. Usually waived for most anyway. Acq fee is, what, $25 a month on the payment?

There's more to it than that.


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## MJBrown62 (Jun 15, 2016)

1968BMW2800 said:


> I need to see the details on that deal, so I can ask for it next time I shop!


You have to have a National Dealer Employee # to get the extra $$ that comes with the center employee lease.

Sorry!

mjb


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

MJBrown62 said:


> You have to have a National Dealer Employee # to get the extra $$ that comes with the center employee lease.
> 
> Sorry!
> 
> mjb


When the time comes, I'm callin' you with the full expectation that whatever that deal was, you, with your magical superpowers, will replicate it for me

After all, now we know where the 'real' value point is.....


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## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

Well after hunting and searching for the past few months, I believe I found a smoking deal on a 2017 M4.

MSRP $82,145
Selling Price $74,042
DMV Fees $147
Tax $3,022
Acquisition Fee $925
Processing Fee $300
Total Cap Cost $78,437

36 month lease
12k miles
MF .00150

$957/month with $0 due at signing except for 1st month payment.

Not exactly the 1% of MSRP deal I was looking for, but I believe it's still great considering current lease programs.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

alex2364 said:


> Well after hunting and searching for the past few months, I believe I found a smoking deal on a 2017 M4.
> 
> MSRP $82,145
> Selling Price $74,042
> ...


I'd say these days 1.15% of MSRP looks pretty good. :thumbup:


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## xofruitcake (Jul 24, 2010)

deleted post.. Found my answer on the MSDs issue..


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## bagspacked (Jan 11, 2016)

When referring to 1% are people usually thinking pre or post-tax? Just curious.


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## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

bagspacked said:


> When referring to 1% are people usually thinking pre or post-tax? Just curious.


I include tax and all fees into the 1% rule.


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## HPIA4v2 (Mar 30, 2006)

alex2364 said:


> I include tax and all fees into the 1% rule.


Just stating the obvious but, would be harder for us here with 10% sales tax compare to State with lower sales tax; to insist with my CA, "hey my friend in Oregon got a monthly lease $150 less than this ". :bigpimp:


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## alex2364 (May 8, 2006)

HPIA4v2 said:


> Just stating the obvious but, would be harder for us here with 10% sales tax compare to State with lower sales tax; to insist with my CA, "hey my friend in Oregon got a monthly lease $150 less than this ". :bigpimp:


In Virginia they charge sales tax on the entire price of the car, not just the lease portion, even though it's technically 4%. So our tax is actually higher than yours.


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## 1968BMW2800 (Aug 13, 2016)

HPIA4v2 said:


> Just stating the obvious but, would be harder for us here with 10% sales tax compare to State with lower sales tax; to insist with my CA, "hey my friend in Oregon got a monthly lease $150 less than this ". :bigpimp:


BMWNA is well-aware of the tax policy differences among states. One of many reasons they field regional programs.

It is always helpful when posting a possible lease deal to provide the MSRP, CAP COST, MF, RV, and proposed drive offs.

Since lease payments have 3 components; depreciation, rent, and tax, it's not too hard to compare apples to oranges with the goal of getting close to the magic 1%.

If I were in a high tax state, or a low/no tax state, I'd make sure my depreciation and rent were congruent with the best deals anywhere in the country, then I'd deal with the tax differential.

While it's a difficult case to make, one can always challenge a dealer in a high tax state to 'do a little more' on lowering the net Cap cost to equalize for a higher tax rate. It's been done before.

It is getting more difficult to compare deals because the incentives, up front and back end, vary so much and it's not always clear what a specific dealer might be applying as part of a dealer's contribution to discounting the cap cost.

My new mantra is: If getting the lowest price is important, one will have to be willing to work a little harder. But I do feel car dealers are still willing to deal -- especially in a marketplace with so many choices.


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## HPIA4v2 (Mar 30, 2006)

alex2364 said:


> In Virginia they charge sales tax on the entire price of the car, not just the lease portion, even though it's technically 4%. So our tax is actually higher than yours.


No I am not arguing the sales tax rate but if people want to use some-sort of measurement stick for figuring out monthly lease payment, i.e being 1% of MSRP as good start. Well it should exclude the known variable which is the sales tax.
Otherwise that 1% is not valid unit of measurement, cause if I take it to Oregon it'll be different than Texas. Being an engineer, I like measurement unit that stay the same whether I am in Oregon or Texas.


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