# sheesh... bought a Miata and then the road feal in my 330 disappeared.



## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

Alan F said:


> *
> When you say it lost something I cannot agree. The BMW never had that feeling in the 3er . . . I remember back in the day when I had a RX-7 and my mother had a 87 325is and I would jump into that Coupe. It felt like a sedan in comparison to a sports car.*


I owned both a 1st gen RX-7 (79 with full suspension, intake and exhaust - stock motor) as well as two E30 318i's. the RX-7 had much more road feal than either E30 and I had a suspension kit on one of the E30s as well (it was even alpine white  ).

and the RX-7 had recirculating ball nut steering versus rack and pinion.

and one of the beauties of me owning a miata is that I was factory certified on that car way back when I was still fixing cars. translation: the labor is good and it's free.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

I should probably clarify the reason I bought the miata so no one gets the wrong impression (like I'm a traitor or something).....

getting the miata for increased road feel had nothing to do with the decision. I'm perfectly happy with the BMW. in fact it's because I'm happy with the bimmer that I bought the miata. you see, there's a lot of construction going on on our highways and my poor bimmer is getting F'd up at a rate faster than I can keep up with repairing the little details. I chose the miata because a friend happened to have one for sale and because my wife has been bugging me for a convertible (sorry but I think the Z3 is butt ugly and has no personality). so it's kind of like sex. you want to prolong that good feeling for as long as possible. driving my 330 is a good feeling and I want to keep it for a long time. the fact that I know the miata like the back of my hand is a real plus. cheap mods, driving feel and great gas mileage are all just unplanned fringe benefits.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> well, that depends....
> 
> ...


How tight is this road? You make it sound like it is an auto-x 

I mean, the Miata will give you a feeling that you are going fast while the 330 may feel like it isn't even breaking a sweat. It just seemed like you might be getting an illusion. A Dinan suspension is pretty damn good too :dunno:

Your Miata sounds like a lot of fun 

Did you ever get S-03s for your 330?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> I've driven a 2.5 z3 but never a 1.9 but I still wouldn't say that. not similar at all. in fact, the miata likely has a much better power to weight ration (I have not confirmed this but it is a logical guess).
> 
> how about a 2002 (which is technically in the same family, right?) or an E21? *


I wasn't saying that a Z3 could feel as good as a Miata, but it is the closest thing that BMW made that I can think of.

I've never driven a 2002, but I doubt that it is like a Miata.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

It would be interesting to see which you preferred cruising the interstate at 80 mph with no twisties. The 330 definitely shines in this area. Never feel an expansion joint. There's something to be said about not beating the crap out of you on a long trip.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

ObD said:


> *It would be interesting to see which you preferred cruising the interstate at 80 mph with no twisties. The 330 definitely shines in this area. Never feel an expansion joint. There's something to be said about not beating the crap out of you on a long trip. *


If cruising at 80 on a freeway is what you want to do, there's plenty of cars that do better job at it than *ANY* 3er ever concieved of, let alone built and sold...most of em cost a hell of a lot less too. But who here bought their 3er primarily for 80mph cruising?

Going back at least as far 1984 (when my former 318i was built) the 3er has been decent at high speed cruising, competent in the twisties, and an admirable performer on the track. You can find better vehicles in each of those categories, but perhaps not better in all categories at once. Which of the 3ers is best? We'll argue about it forever and never agree. The 5 is similar, although its character is skewed in another direction. Same for the 7.

None of us driving a modern BMW with a model designation that starts with something other than a Z (or M Roadster/Coupe) is drivng a "sports car" by any stretch of the definition. We're driving very, very good "sport sedans" (and, no, a sedan does not need to have four doors or a fixed roof to be a sedan).

The truth is that BMW does not build the Ultimate Driving Machine...it builds the Ultimate Compromise Machines.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> How tight is this road? You make it sound like it is an auto-x
> 
> Did you ever get S-03s for your 330? *


the road is pretty tight. there are some straighter portions of the road that HP would help but there'd be no room to pass. there's a link on my BMW web page to calaveras road. there should be some pics there as well of the road.

no, still on contis but it's about time to switch over.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

ObD said:


> *It would be interesting to see which you preferred cruising the interstate at 80 mph with no twisties. The 330 definitely shines in this area. Never feel an expansion joint. There's something to be said about not beating the crap out of you on a long trip. *


hehe... I just got home from a 37 mile commute with the top down. part of the commute was through calaveras road at 9 to 9/10 speed. when I got back on the freeway, it was 80-90MPH. it's a nice warm day here in nor cal so I must say, even though I couldn't even here my stereo I'd still prefer the miata at those speeds on a day like today.  honestly, I find the seats in my subaru forester a tad more comfortable than the sport seats in my bimmer. that car does great at 80+. but no question, the 330 is my favorite.

...actually, the miata is pretty stable at high speeds now that the knois and sway bars have been installed. the 93 model already has some of the chassis bracing that the newer models have. I just need to retrofit the front subframe brace and I'l be dialed (~$28 from an on-line mazda dealer). I *might* install a roll bar which will stiffen the car up quite a bit more. it's really not that bad. I'd drive to the wine country and back in a day no problem. driving to socal might be another story, though.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

clyde325xiT said:



> *The truth is that BMW does not build the Ultimate Driving Machine...it builds the Ultimate Compromise Machines. *


there's a lot to be said about that. even my 1992 BMW R100R bike (bought new) was an outstanding "all around" motorcycle. it wasn't particularly fast, it didn't have the best handeling nor was it a really good cruiser BUT it did *everything* very well and I really liked that bike, much more so than my previous crotch rockets (one of which was an alpine white 1987 honda hurricane ).


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> the road is pretty tight. there are some straighter portions of the road that HP would help but there'd be no room to pass. there's a link on my BMW web page to calaveras road. there should be some pics there as well of the road.
> 
> no, still on contis but it's about time to switch over. *


It would be interesting to see some time or corner speeds, I have never seen a road so tight that a Miata could pull away from a 330 :dunno:

You will like the S-03s :bigpimp:

btw, I noticed on your page about the Dinan Software that you forgot to mention another benefit. The extra 250rpms is nice. I drove a 330 at Texas World Speeway and could have used those extra rpms going into two, maybe 3 turns so as not to hit the limiter


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *I have never seen a road so tight that a Miata could pull away from a 330*


that's only part of the story. since the miata is smaller/lighter you don't have to slow it down as much going into the turn and pulling out of the turn is less of an effort. I guess timing my runs will tell all. I have a stop watch but need to replace the batteries.

I observed the same thing at sears point with 250 ninjas competing against the likes of me on 600cc. those guys could stay on the gas most of the time and out brake the bigger bikes. while a very good 600 rider could spank a very good 250 ninja rider, a very good 250 ninja rider could easily spank anything less than the top five riders.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> I observed the same thing at sears point with 250 ninjas competing against the likes of me on 600cc. those guys could stay on the gas most of the time and out brake the bigger bikes. while a very good 600 rider could spank a very good 250 ninja rider, a very good 250 ninja rider could easily spank anything less than the top five riders. *


Even 3400lb Winston Cup cars put good times down at Sears Point 

http://www.searspoint.com/pages/hidden/trackrecords.html

I'd like to see the times, too bad consistency would be a problem with that


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *I'd like to see the times, too bad consistency would be a problem with that *


yeah, that would be a problem. I was thinking to take the average of like 3 runs in each direction in each car.

I meant to comment about your suggestion that the miata might *feel* faster while the bimmer wasn't breaking a sweat. I was thinking that myself and feel that there may be some truth to that. I'm in 2nd gear most of the time in both cars but do need oto shift up through various parts of the road. the bimmer does much better in 3rd than the miata in the lower RPMs. in fact, I've gone the whole road before with the bimmer in 3rd and I still get through pretty quickly - the bimmer can be lugged down to near idle and it still pulls admirably out of the turns (well, maybe like 2K-2.5K RPM - that's still low)!


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> I meant to comment about your suggestion that the miata might *feel* faster while the bimmer wasn't breaking a sweat. I was thinking that myself and feel that there may be some truth to that. I'm in 2nd gear most of the time in both cars but do need oto shift up through various parts of the road. the bimmer does much better in 3rd than the miata in the lower RPMs. in fact, I've gone the whole road before with the bimmer in 3rd and I still get through pretty quickly - the bimmer can be lugged down to near idle and it still pulls admirably out of the turns (well, maybe like 2K-2.5K RPM - that's still low)! *


This is what i had initially thought, BMWs don't feel fast when they are going fast, but a Miata does and even feels like it's going fast when it really isn't :dunno:


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> ...but a Miata does and even feels like it's going fast when it really isn't *


Isn't THIS the definition of FUN? FEELING like you're going fast is fun. Going fast without feeling it is only a good way to get a ticket. If you can get that adreneline rush at a lower speed, isn't that a good thing?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Isn't THIS the definition of FUN? FEELING like you're going fast is fun. Going fast without feeling it is only a good way to get a ticket. If you can get that adreneline rush at a lower speed, isn't that a good thing? *


If you think it is, I like that my car feels like it has a LOT of reserve capability (it does). I guess this is good :dunno:

Like BMWCar noted about the E39 M5, and it is true about E46s too, you have to be going rediculously fast to push the limits on public roads :dunno:


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> * ...Miata [...] feels like it's going fast when it really isn't *


I woudln't go so far as to say that. I hit about the same peak speads (~55-60MPH) and am in mostly in second gear buzzing the RPMs in both cars.


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> I wasn't really argueing, you were pretty much right. Comparing a 330 (or even, dare I say, an E30 M3) to a Miata in feel, the Miata will obviously blow it out of the water. Saying this "It's kind of funny to me how more and more of the E46 guys are starting to realize that these cars truly did lose something along the way" is sort of a mischaraterization, we weren't talking about E30s or E36s, but rather Miatas. You can't loose something along the way when there is no connection between a 330 and a Miata... *


I'd think comparing "feel" of any power steering assisted car to any non-power steering assisted car, will produce that feeling. It has *NOTHING* to do with losing feel (although my 01 325i sucks compared to my former 00 323Ci)... But hey, that's what Nate said... So, enough said! Good *LOGIC* Nate! :thumb:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Isn't THIS the definition of FUN? FEELING like you're going fast is fun. Going fast without feeling it is only a good way to get a ticket. If you can get that adreneline rush at a lower speed, isn't that a good thing? *


good point Tom, one of the things I always say is "I'd rather drive a slow car fast, then a fast car fast"

I came to realize this when I had my first Corvette and I would floor my car and literally a little more then 5 seconds later I was already at illegal speeds and your all done . . . it's just too fast. With a slow car, you can rev it through the gears, you get to shift more often, you can play around with rev band and have a great time.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

31st330i said:


> *
> 
> I woudln't go so far as to say that. I hit about the same peak speads (~55-60MPH) and am in mostly in second gear buzzing the RPMs in both cars. *


Comparatively, the feeling of a Miata at 60 is very different from the more isolated and larger 330....


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