# Audi claims BMW is playing catch up in the diesel market



## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

While General Motors introduces the new Chevrolet Cruze diesel in an attempt to take a bite out of Volkswagen***8217;s dominance of the U.S. mainstream clean-diesel market, luxury competitors are having to take a second look at the Audi command of diesel power in America***8217;s premium segment.

BMW, for example, now reportedly plans to offer a clean-diesel option across most of its lineup in the U.S., similar to what Audi has begun to do. BMW will add diesel ***8220;for most of the model range,***8221; Ludwig Willisch, CEO of BMW of North America, confirmed recently to Automotive News. It will take three years, he said.

Audi of America announced last year that it would be making TDI clean-diesel powertrains available on most of its high-volume models in the U.S. market by the end of this year, beginning with the Audi A8 TDI which is now available. They***8217;ll join the initial Audi clean-diesel lineup of the Audi A3 and Audi Q7 models for the U.S. market.
Meanwhile, Willisch expounded on BMW***8217;s own broad clean-diesel strategy for the U.S. luxury segment.

***8220;We are convinced that diesel is still a very viable offer in today***8217;s environment and has the torque Americans want,***8221; he told the publication. ***8220;Diesel still has a huge advantage in fuel economy over a gas engine, between 20 and 25 percent. That is why we are coming out with a 3 Series and 5 Series this year and there is more to come.***8221;

Is Audi the diesel leader and BMW the follower or is this just marketing fluff from Audi?


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I think Audi is just more willing to gamble on the American market place. BMW has definately been more cautious. Audi did string us along since 2008 concerning the V6 TDI in an A4 but did come through with same engine in a Q7 and T-egg. Also, the T-egg with V12 TDI. 

I will say BMW beat Audi to the punch with the 6 cylinder 335D and still no TDI in an A4 .... and wait ... here it comes .... the A4 will be with a 4 banger. kuthud in my opinion. 535D and A6 TDI will be more evenly matched including wimpy steering feel. Don't get me wrong, I really like Audi engineering. They just dissapointed me on the A4 front. To be fair, the 6 cyl 3 series is now officially gone so they both will be on an even keel again. 

If this decision is long term, Our 335Ds could be a rare hen's tooth and the X5D and Q5 TDI a little more main stream


----------



## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

tim330i said:


> Is Audi the diesel leader and BMW the follower or is this just marketing fluff from Audi?


Well, so far it's all fluff. Audi (and VW) are not stepping up as far as diesel AWD wagons/sedans, especially in the smaller sizes. No diesel AWD Jetta wagon, A3, Passat, Tiguan/Q3, etc. Kind of weird since they've been playing off the Quattro brand all along.:dunno:


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Audi has merely ridden VW's coattails. And VW/Audi have not been without diesel HPFP problems.

BMW will have two diesel sedans over here by the end of the year and a 7er d next year. Audi has a very slim lead.


----------



## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

d geek said:


> Audi has merely ridden VW's coattails. And VW/Audi have not been without diesel HPFP problems.
> 
> BMW will have two diesel sedans over here by the end of the year and a 7er d next year. Audi has a very slim lead.


Not part of any audi forum. What are the problems being experienced. Is it the same
as the X5d here in the US. Does there homeland units seem to have less problems
like the X5d and are they as expensive to fix as BMW

How has the 2013 X5d shaped up as far as diesel problems, same as 2011, 2012 models.


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Some info here. Same HPFP used in the Audi A3 tdi
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323


----------



## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

let the games begin!!


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BB_cuda said:


> I think Audi is just more willing to gamble on the American market place. BMW has definately been more cautious. Audi did string us along since 2008 concerning the V6 TDI in an A4 but did come through with same engine in a Q7 and T-egg. Also, the T-egg with V12 TDI.
> 
> I will say BMW beat Audi to the punch with the 6 cylinder 335D and still no TDI in an A4 .... and wait ... here it comes .... the A4 will be with a 4 banger. kuthud in my opinion. 535D and A6 TDI will be more evenly matched including wimpy steering feel. Don't get me wrong, I really like Audi engineering. They just dissapointed me on the A4 front. To be fair, the 6 cyl 3 series is now officially gone so they both will be on an even keel again.
> 
> If this decision is long term, Our 335Ds could be a rare hen's tooth and the X5D and Q5 TDI a little more main stream


Cuda, the T-Egg was a V-10 Biturbo as I recall. A beast, I wanted one but alas they never introduced them in the country where I lived at the time.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

d geek said:


> Some info here. Same HPFP used in the Audi A3 tdi
> http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854
> http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=308323


Of course. The A3 TDI is based on the MK5 Golf, so why wouldn't it have the same parts.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

And I'm not surprised that Audi is calling BMW out. BMW has pretty much ignored the US diesel. Mercedes/VW/Audi have been embracing it. Audi will have 4 new diesel models by Fall. Q5/A6/A7/A8 TDI. BMW is getting there. The 3d and 5d will be out by Fall. They just need to get the X3 diesel out fast too.


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

AutoUnion said:


> Of course. The A3 TDI is based on the MK5 Golf, so why wouldn't it have the same parts.


I thought it was obvious that I was answering this question.


txagbmw said:


> Not part of any audi forum. *What are the problems being experienced*. ....


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

Along with the Cruze the next diesel to hit the streets will be the Mazda SkyActive offering in the MX6 that could even find its way into the MX5 Cute Ute, or that is their published plan anyway. That one is especially interesting because Mazda is rather innovative(remember, the Rotary engine and the Miller Cycle gasser?) and has found a way to meet the CARB/EPA restrictions on oilers WITHOUT the urea plumbing and tanks! Only the little turbo 4's from VW/Audi do that now, and even that same engine in the new bigger Passat needs the urea for some reason.:angel:


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Reason Passat needs it and Jetta does not: A heavier vehicle with same power train will put out more emissions. Engine has to work harder to accelerate and this higher load causes more emissions.


----------



## Runon MD1 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Audi vs. BMW Diesels*

<<If this decision is long term, Our 335Ds could be a rare hen's tooth...>>

Indeed.

And rare as hens' teeth!

Richard


----------



## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

BB The Passat weighs 176 pounds more than the Jetta (3459# vs 3283#) according to Edmunds stats. Hard to figure that the weight of one pax makes it over the line for the urea treatment.


----------



## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

UncleJ said:


> BB The Passat weighs 176 pounds more than the Jetta (3459# vs 3283#) according to Edmunds stats. Hard to figure that the weight of one pax makes it over the line for the urea treatment.


Passat also has more frontal area which causes more drag which lowers mileage.
The Passat actually gets better mileage, which indicates it has a different tune and emissions package (less intrusive DPF and Catalyst, less EGR?) Don't forget that there are ADVANTAGES to sophisticated emissions controls, too.


----------



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

UncleJ said:


> BB The Passat weighs 176 pounds more than the Jetta (3459# vs 3283#) according to Edmunds stats. Hard to figure that the weight of one pax makes it over the line for the urea treatment.


Which isn't a big deal because the Passat TDI gets better real world economy than the Jetta TDI. Because of the Adblue, the 2.0TDI is running a completely different tune of the engine from the Jetta.


----------



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Thanks for the correction. They look more different than 170 lbs.


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

AutoUnion said:


> Which isn't a big deal because the Passat TDI gets better real world economy than the Jetta TDI. Because of the Adblue, the 2.0TDI is running a completely different tune of the engine from the Jetta.


+1. The Passat HPFP seems to be more reliable with failure data reported on tdiclub.


----------

