# Calling all trouble-free 335d owners with more than 50k miles



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

WTF?

Did I just make the worst automotive mistake of my lifetime?

I owned a 1999 ML430...considered a terrible car by some. I had a wonderful ownership experience because I stayed a hop and a skip ahead of the known issues with the car and cultivated a great relationship with my SA BEFORE I had a single issue. I went 120k and 10 years with that car before selling it. 

Can I do the same and keep this 335d I so dearly love?

I have laid the groundwork for my strategy by telling my SA that I intend to stay ahead of this carbon build up issue. He says he only sees cars that are driven "too gently" with the issue and firmly believes in the "keep it clean with your right foot" strategy.

I have the factory warranty until 4/15 or 50k miles...then the CPO warranty...and will look into an extended plan.

In the meantime, I plan to report symptoms of carbon build up well inside my warranty period to have a record of them saying, "We can't find anything wrong." Then, if it dies at 65k miles, I will be in a better position.

If it doesn't, they can just consider me crazy.

Is this sub-forum just a clearinghouse for the rare bad experience?

Any other advice? I feel like a Doomsday Prepper.


----------



## zach0726 (Oct 23, 2011)

I'm at about 60k miles and other than a blown wheel bearing and 1 bad tank of diesel, no problems.

I can verify that on turbo-diesels for boats (Yanmar, Cummins, CAT) that many diesel experts consider it a rule-of-thumb to operate the engine at a minimum of 90% output for at least 5-10 minutes every time the boat goes out. This is, of course, to mitigate carbon build-up.

As you'd imagine that's with the engine actually loaded-up - ie not just spinning up the tach. 

My d engine gets a pretty good workout every day. But if worst case I have to drop a few k every 80k miles to clean out carbon, I'm okay with that. That said I don't believe my d is showing any signs of build-up.


----------



## KarlB (Nov 21, 2004)

little over 54k on our 2011,I do not baby my cars and firmly believe that 2 lane passing is done by getting out and getting back in as quickly as possible so right foot carbon clearing is a daily driving occurance. so far 1 bad wheel bearing and routine maint./recalls did purchase an ext warranty to 6yrs 100k so if carbon build up strikes (or the def system craps out) we are covered.


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

54010 miles.

I just had the active tank of my SCR system replaced due to a bad sensor which was integrated into the tank. 

I can't say I have had problems related to carbon buildup. 

I did buy OEM extended warranty.


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

no real signs as of yet, soon to be reaching 68k, had the manifold off around 60k and there was slight carbon but nothing to write home about, if it continues at that pace it might need cleaning at 120k. I would be spending a lot of time in jail if I pushed the D at 90% for 5 minutes every day.


----------



## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Hoooper said:


> no real signs as of yet, soon to be reaching 68k, had the manifold off around 60k and there was slight carbon but nothing to write home about, if it continues at that pace it might need cleaning at 120k. I would be spending a lot of time in jail if I pushed the D at 90% for 5 minutes every day.


Although it's not real fun doing so, a couple of times I thought the solution might be to put it in DS, and then drive around in M3 (as I recall) with the revs up to 4-4.5k for a while. I have done it, and it is a bit annoying, and I can't say as to what the impact is on the system overall.


----------



## ChasR (Aug 29, 2012)

70K here on my 2011. Bad steering rack is all I can report.


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

I just rolled 100k on the way to Yosemite Friday. No symptoms of problems with carbon buildup in my 09. The car has as much power as it had when I bought it. I do mostly Highway driving, probably average 70 mph. I am in California and my work commute is against traffic so I rarely experience traffic jams.


----------



## 135i_vs_ (Apr 13, 2013)

quasimodem said:


> I just rolled 100k on the way to Yosemite Friday. No symptoms of problems with carbon buildup in my 09. The car has as much power as it had when I bought it. I do mostly Highway driving, probably average 70 mph. I am in California and my work commute is against traffic so I rarely experience traffic jams.


Is it stock or tuned?


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

135i_vs_ said:


> Is it stock or tuned?


Not "tuned" just "tunes" from my dual 10-inch sub woofer, sub platform, sub amp, and 4-channel amp in the trunk all wired with 4 gauge so adding an additional 100 lbs in the trunk.

Maybe I am dislodging the carbon buildup with my music since I do like it loud. :bigpimp:


----------



## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

quasimodem said:


> Not "tuned" just "tunes" from my dual 10-inch sub woofer, sub platform, sub amp, and 4-channel amp in the trunk all wired with 4 gauge so adding an additional 100 lbs in the trunk.
> 
> Maybe I am dislodging the carbon buildup with my music since I do like it loud. :bigpimp:


Brilliant! It's just like ultrasound treatment at the physical therapist. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

I love it. Keep the stories coming.

Can't wit to get home from Mexico to pick up my d and do some driving.


----------



## cliffj (Mar 11, 2007)

67K on mine. ONLY problems so far were SAT radio module and iDrive screen, both replaced under warranty. About 70% of my commute is highway miles, average speed of about 78 mph, but occasionally 85 - 95 mph runs when traffic allows. May be why I have seen no signs of carbon buildup yet. Only other "issue" was my avg mpg dropped 2-3 mpg after the EGR recall was accomplished. Never regained the original mpg. I usually get around 32 mpg on my daily commute and 35 mpg on a pure highway trip. Not really a true problem, but probably worth mentioning. 

This is the first diesel I have owned, and now I am a believer. The torque is awesome. I had an 08 335i before the d, and like the d better.


----------



## mt3ch (May 4, 2003)

Drive it like you stole it. 


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


----------



## slugdriver (Dec 30, 2005)

Had my car (55K Miles) in NTB last week to rotate and balance the tires. While it was up on the rack, I did a walk through inspection underneath and noticed the rear differential appeared to be leaking. Sure enough, ran my finger over it and it was diff fluid! I was like WTF?!! I just had the car in for service and inspection last month. I returned to Sterling BMW the next day to advise of the above leak. The SA informed me that the drive shaft input seal was leaking and would need replaced at the cost of approx $1200!!! ($150 in parts and 4.6 hours worth of labor). Whoa!!

I pushed back firmly but respectfully stating that for a $52K car, that was just in for inspection last month, the technicians should have noticed this, moreover with such low mileage shouldn't be experiencing this type of an issue. 
I take meticulous care of the car w/all services etc. BMW NA agreed to cover all costs saving $256. Bottom line it's day 2 in the shop, Will keep all posted.


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

62K on my 2010. Only issues with DEF system and emission sensors so far. Oh and me running into the back end of other vehicles!

Power and MPG remain as original, so no evidence of carbon build up but I'm not about to go poking around in the intake either.

I drive spiritly, not bashful to use my right foot.

I don't think increasing rpms is a solution to clearing the carbon, it is engine load that you need to "blow" out the carbon with turbo charged air velocity and heat. That means acceleration, or towing a boat!:rofl:


----------



## bmwluvher (Aug 6, 2007)

head replaced twice , 2 EGR replacements, turbos replaced, DEF tank replaced twice, NOX sensors, DPF sensors, all under 50,000 miles. One suggestion to all of you. Tell the BMW tech to cut the exhaust on the back end and use BMW's joints when putting it back on. It makes replacing the DEF tank so much easier. 

my X5d: cracked EGR.


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

bmwluvher said:


> head replaced twice , 2 EGR replacements, turbos replaced, DEF tank replaced twice, NOX sensors, DPF sensors, all under 50,000 miles. One suggestion to all of you. Tell the BMW tech to cut the exhaust on the back end and use BMW's joints when putting it back on. It makes replacing the DEF tank so much easier.
> 
> my X5d: cracked EGR.


And you're still a BMW Luhver!!!


----------



## rancur (Nov 5, 2013)

has anyone correlated these repairs to geography and average trip distance?

I'm seeing a trend...highway miles...

geography-- southern hot summer might help


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

rancur said:


> has anyone correlated these repairs to geography and average trip distance?
> 
> I'm seeing a trend...highway miles...
> 
> geography-- southern hot summer might help


If you do a search on "335d carbon" you will get links to a variety of forums with details from lots of owners. Common thread seems to be that right around 50k miles, cars have built up enough deposits to cause problems and warrant costly cleaning and repairs.

As in $5000 to $15000. :yikes:

My plan is to establish a service history that should lead BMW to cover the cleaning.

No one would ever buy one of these cars with an understanding that after 50k miles you would need a $5k to $10k service to keep the car running. These are not Ferraris.

Imagine buying a car and having the dealer tell you, "Don't drive this thing on the highway a lot. It will clog up the engine with carbon deposits and you will need a $10,000 cleaning after 50,000 miles."

"Of course that means that you will never get the fuel economy you may be buying the car for in the first place. You have to drive the car in the most inefficient manner possible to keep it from dying after 50,000 miles."

"Oh yeah. And we will charge you a premium over a 335i for all of this nonsense."

"Enjoy your torque while it lasts."


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

DaveN007 said:


> Imagine buying a car and having the dealer tell you, "Don't drive this thing on the highway a lot. It will clog up the engine with carbon deposits and you will need a $10,000 cleaning after 50,000 miles."


more often city driving is pointed at than highway. Im thinking everyone that has an issue with deposits come up needs to report it to the NTSB, maybe we can get some .gov pressure if were lucky


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

Hoooper said:


> more often city driving is pointed at than highway. Im thinking everyone that has an issue with deposits come up needs to report it to the NTSB, maybe we can get some .gov pressure if were lucky


.gov is usually loathe to admit that the things they encourage end up turning into a debacle.

They gave money to people to buy these cars. LOL.

"Use your rebate check to clean your own luxury car engine, you 1 per center."


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

DaveN007 said:


> .gov is usually loathe to admit that the things they encourage end up turning into a debacle.
> 
> They gave money to people to buy these cars. LOL.
> 
> "Use your rebate check to clean your own luxury car engine, you 1 per center."


I know that, but the NTSB is not the EPA, and there is 0 harm in making the effort


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Hoooper said:


> more often city driving is pointed at than highway. Im thinking everyone that has an issue with deposits come up needs to report it to the NTSB, maybe we can get some .gov pressure if were lucky


You would have to make it a safety issue.


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

DaveN007 said:


> If you do a search on "335d carbon" you will get links to a variety of forums with details from lots of owners. Common thread seems to be that right around 50k miles, cars have built up enough deposits to cause problems and warrant costly cleaning and repairs.
> 
> As in $5000 to $15000. :yikes:
> 
> ...


$15k??? No way. Btw...many of these failures are double posts of the same car.


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> You would have to make it a safety issue.


it is, engine malfunctions on the highway are serious business


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

DaveN007 said:


> Imagine buying a car and having the dealer tell you, "Don't drive this thing on the highway a lot. It will clog up the engine with carbon deposits and you will need a $10,000 cleaning after 50,000 miles."


You must be confused, I have been driving over 90% highway miles for over 100k miles and no problems. Admittedly I haven't had the intake off to take a look at it.

I think the consensus is that it is city driving or stop and go traffic which is bad for the car.


----------



## ChasR (Aug 29, 2012)

SES light came on yesterday, so I am no longer a member of the trouble free club. I ordered a BT CAN tool to read the code and clear it if it is not important. (loaned/gave my OBD 2 reader to my son). The car is running as well as ever, averaging over 34 mpg over the last three tanks. The only thing I've noticed different is the time between regens seems much longer than it was during the summer.


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

quasimodem said:


> You must be confused, I have been driving over 90% highway miles for over 100k miles and no problems. Admittedly I haven't had the intake off to take a look at it.
> 
> I think the consensus is that it is city driving or stop and go traffic which is bad for the car.


:thumbup: I hope to share your experience.

I am not confused, however. The consensus (if there is one) is that driving the car gently i.e. "not under a heavy load" allows for greater carbon deposits. I am not sure if 1750-2000 rpms (70-80 mph in top gear) counts as "heavy enough".

Again, I hope you are right. I will put a lot of 70-80mph miles on this car. 150 at a time. :roundel:


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

DaveN007 said:


> :thumbup: I hope to share your experience.
> 
> I am not confused, however. The consensus (if there is one) is that driving the car gently i.e. "not under a heavy load" allows for greater carbon deposits. I am not sure if 1750-2000 rpms (70-80 mph in top gear) counts as "heavy enough".
> 
> Again, I hope you are right. I will put a lot of 70-80mph miles on this car. 150 at a time. :roundel:


Dont forget to use those onramps.


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

quasimodem said:


> Dont forget to use those onramps.


I like to think of onramps as "carrier decks". :drive:


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

DaveN007 said:


> :thumbup: I hope to share your experience.
> 
> I am not confused, however. The consensus (if there is one) is that driving the car gently i.e. "not under a heavy load" allows for greater carbon deposits. I am not sure if 1750-2000 rpms (70-80 mph in top gear) counts as "heavy enough".
> 
> Again, I hope you are right. I will put a lot of 70-80mph miles on this car. 150 at a time. :roundel:


highway driving vs city driving, in general, has been related to lower carbon occurrence though I dont think anyone can really say with confidence that highway driving will save you. If this relation is correct though, the fact that air velocity even at only 1700 RPM is a heck of a lot higher than at idle might have something to do with it.


----------



## rancur (Nov 5, 2013)

Hoooper said:


> highway driving vs city driving, in general, has been related to lower carbon occurrence though I dont think anyone can really say with confidence that highway driving will save you. If this relation is correct though, the fact that air velocity even at only 1700 RPM is a heck of a lot higher than at idle might have something to do with it.


Throttle position or engine load* (butterfly valve position not foot position) should be all that's necessary to correlate across vehicles. Low average throttle position would correspond with higher carbon buildup. Any folks with a Bluetooth obd2 device and phone with piece of software capable of polling and logging the throttle position on a per second basis for 50k miles (lol) could help us. We'd need statistically sound data but if 4/5 cars with average throttle position corresponding to highway driving load didn't have buildup issues...

Actually it would only need to be a representative sample set, so 1 month's worth of trips from each user with some forethought given to ensuring the trips you're making now are what you were making that lead to the buildup issues. So if you live in the same house, work same place, and haven't started taking kids to school every morning before your shower, and you had carbon buildup issues, then your trip data could help us.

*this would be PID
01 04 from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs#Standard_PIDs.

Of potential use would also be
01 0B intake manifold absolute pressure
01 0F intake air temperature
01 10 MAF air flow rate

Having all these we could probably determine which of these metrics are offenders.

Now if only I drove a 335d...
Trying to decide between a CPO one for 30k and a 2007 328I 6speed for under 11k... 

Sent from my SPH-D710VMUB using BimmerApp mobile app


----------



## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

rancur said:


> Throttle position or engine load* (butterfly valve position not foot position) should be all that's necessary to correlate across vehicles. Low average throttle position would correspond with higher carbon buildup. Any folks with a Bluetooth obd2 device and phone with piece of software capable of polling and logging the throttle position on a per second basis for 50k miles (lol) could help us. We'd need statistically sound data but if 4/5 cars with average throttle position corresponding to highway driving load didn't have buildup issues...
> 
> Actually it would only need to be a representative sample set, so 1 month's worth of trips from each user with some forethought given to ensuring the trips you're making now are what you were making that lead to the buildup issues. So if you live in the same house, work same place, and haven't started taking kids to school every morning before your shower, and you had carbon buildup issues, then your trip data could help us.
> 
> ...


I will gladly spend $20,000 worth of time to conduct this research for the chance to avoid $5000 worth of costly repairs. :rofl:

Reminds me of the guys at the range who worry about the "lifespan" of a rifle barrel that cost then $500 when you have to shoot $2500 of ammo through it to kill it.


----------



## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

rancur said:


> (butterfly valve position not foot position)


I wasn't aware that diesel engines had butterfly valves...


----------



## rancur (Nov 5, 2013)

Penguin said:


> I wasn't aware that diesel engines had butterfly valves...


I don't know how diesel engines work.


----------



## poggi (Aug 21, 2011)

At 66k with lots of higher speed mileage (the last 1.2k @ 67.5 ave mph), the attached picture from the inside of my intake manifold via the intake pressure sensor hole shows lot of carbon build up. A client just got his d back after a 2-month sojourn at the dealer, waiting for a replacement parts "to be manufactured" in Germany.


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

DaveN007 said:


> Reminds me of the guys at the range who worry about the "lifespan" of a rifle barrel that cost then $500 when you have to shoot $2500 of ammo through it to kill it.


ROFL..I know people like this.


----------



## DozerDan (Dec 18, 2013)

DaveN007 said:


> Reminds me of the guys at the range who worry about the "lifespan" of a rifle barrel that cost then $500 when you have to shoot $2500 of ammo through it to kill it.


So true. I just had this Sunday at the range. There were only a few of us shooting so the range master were allowing rapid fire which is normally not allowed. I was putting rounds down range and just having some fun with the AR. Other guy shooting his AR commented that I should not shoot so many rounds so fast as it was not good for the barrel, and I would wear it out. I politely reminded him that it was a weapon that was designed to be fired in combat, and my 15 round semi burst were not going to hurt the barrel.

That being said I have 53,000 on my D 20,000 of which in the last 10 months with no issues thus far.


----------

