# Some interesting numbers



## János (Jun 19, 2010)

There was a recent Bimmerfest thread about the 335i/Audi S4 Quattro comparison in Car & Driver. I read both the article and the forum posts with great interest. There was a chart showing the various stats of both cars side by side.

Just for fun I thought I'd look up the C&D stats for the 335d; compared to the two petrol cars we know the 'd' is a little bit slower from 0-60MPH... but here is what I found most interesting:

Top gear 30-50MPH:
S4 - 8.9 seconds
335i - 7.0 seconds
335d - *3.3 seconds*

Top gear 50-70MPH:
S4 - 7.5 seconds
335i - 6.3 seconds
335d - *3.9 seconds*

_We _know the 'd' is impressive, but it is nice to see these numbers.


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

Something is way off. :dunno:


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## János (Jun 19, 2010)

Twilght1 said:


> Something is way off. :dunno:


That may well be... but here's where I got the numbers - please let me know if I'm missing something. These are links to PDF files.

C&D Audi S4/335i Comparison

C&D Review-2009 335d (Spec Sheet) (check out the box called "Acceleration" at the bottom)


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

So it says what it says, but there is no way it takes a 335i 7.9 seconds to go from 30-50mph. It does 0-50 in less time! The chart seems to indicate that those times are in "top gear". I'm not sure why that is relevant, but maybe that is what is being shown.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

TORQUE! It comes in handy during those 30-50mph and 50-70mph tests we all do so often in 6TH GEAR!


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## AZ335D (Aug 19, 2010)

Manual vs. automatic? If the 335i and the S4 are manuals, they leave them in top gear (6th) whereas an automatic gets to shift down.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

AZ335D said:


> Manual vs. automatic? If the 335i and the S4 are manuals, they leave them in top gear (6th) whereas an automatic gets to shift down.


I think intention was to keep it in Top Gear, otherwise the test would not make sense :eeps:. Not sure about 30-50 but 50-70 there is no downshift when you accelerate hard - in my case. As HIREN stated torque helps :thumbup:


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Hmm..I find that hard to believe. Something must be wrong with their stats.


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## mecodoug (Nov 30, 2007)

deleted


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

AZ335D said:


> Manual vs. automatic?


Bingo.


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

At what RPM is a 335i at 30, 50, and 70 mph while in 6th gear? The gasoline engine needs to be at higher RPM in order to accelerate quickly. 

I recently drove through the mountains on the I-77 / I-79 corridor. In West Virginia the speed limit is 70 mph even while there are some nice elevation changes where the big trucks go near 45 mph. Set cruise control to a fun speed and the car "just goes" without ever downshifting. Even on the steep uphill grades. I really like how much this car pulls without downshifting. Something about it makes me smile. 

At the end of the drive the trip computer says I averaged 35 mpg with average speed of 72.1 over 473 miles in 6:51 hr. I'll post my data in the "long trip mpg" thread after I fill up and compute mileage at the pump.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

autoJeff said:


> At what RPM is a 335i at 30, 50, and 70 mph while in 6th gear? The gasoline engine needs to be at higher RPM in order to accelerate quickly.
> 
> I recently drove through the mountains on the I-77 / I-79 corridor. In West Virginia the speed limit is 70 mph even while there are some nice elevation changes where the big trucks go near 45 mph. Set cruise control to a fun speed and the car "just goes" without ever downshifting. Even on the steep uphill grades. I really like how much this car pulls without downshifting. Something about it makes me smile.
> 
> At the end of the drive the trip computer says I averaged 35 mpg with average speed of 72.1 over 473 miles in 6:51 hr. I'll post my data in the "long trip mpg" thread after I fill up and compute mileage at the pump.


I believe it, but in this case we have to assume the numbers are for passing so if I were conducting the test (50-70 mph), I would fully depress the accelerator pedal which would force the A/T to downshift into 5th. I just have a hard time believing the d is ~50% faster


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## AZ335D (Aug 19, 2010)

The auto certainly downshifts in the 30 - 50 sprint. I will probably not be driving the D today, well not the 335 D, picking up my other D (as in F350 Diesel) after service today, but will drive the 335 D over the weekend and see if it downshifts in the 50 - 70 run. My guess is going to WOT at 50 will initiate a downshift. 

If it does, and the other cars tested are manuals, I think a lot of the difference in time is related to the downshift rather than torque of the D. The D may be faster in both sprints than the other two cars, but I find it hard to believe that the D is twice as fast.


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## AZ335D (Aug 19, 2010)

I just looked at the CD table and both the 335I and the S4 are 6 speed manuals.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

What some of you are not understanding is in the tests that were performed there was NO down shifting. The cars were left in their TOP gear which is 6TH throughout the test. This means the automatic 335d was put in sport mode and then 6th gear was selected. I assume the car wouldn't downshift if put in sport manual and 6th gear. If it does downshift by itself then they would have noted that in the test figures as they would not be accurate.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

For the test of the 335d, don't you think they took the automatic downshift into account and put the car in manual mode first?

Also, as autoJeff noted, the 335i and S4 must be at a very low RPM in top gear at 30 or even 50 mph. The engines may just bog down and hardly accelerate.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

HIREN said:


> What some of you are not understanding is in the tests that were performed there was NO down shifting. The cars were left in their TOP gear which is 6TH throughout the test. This means the automatic 335d was put in sport mode and then 6th gear was selected. I assume the car wouldn't downshift if put in sport manual and 6th gear. If it does downshift by itself then they would have noted that in the test figures as they would not be accurate.


I'm gonna try it this weekend.


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## AZ335D (Aug 19, 2010)

I have written an e-mail to Car and Driver asking for their explanation. We'll see if they respond and what their reply is.


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

We have both a 335d and a 335 MT, and I can believe the d is faster the way this test is set up. However this is a pointless test. No one would (or at least should) try to run their 335 MT from 30-50 in 6th gear. It would be bogged down to such a degree that I would be worried about long term motor damage if it was done all the time. The whole point of having a MT is to run it through the gears and stay in the power band. I am in second gear when going from 30-50 and third gear from 50-70. The d is a fantastic car that gives great performance and mpg, but it is slower than a 335MT. N4S


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

The 335d would downshift into second if it was at thirty MPH and in sixth gear and DS. The 335i was obviously a manual all bogged down in sixth.


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## traderfjp (Aug 22, 2010)

Both cars are awesome. This does sound like a silly comparison. I drove the 335D (bought one), the 335i and 135i. For me I like the power to come on earlier then having to rev the heck out of the engine to get all its power. That said I could be happy with any of these cars. The diesel is a little bit noisier and u do have to put up with smelly diesel. But why cares. It's a beat with great MPG. A Prius on steriods.


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## anE934fun (May 10, 2008)

HIREN said:


> TORQUE! It comes in handy during those 30-50mph and 50-70mph tests we all do so often in 6TH GEAR!


Bingo! 425 lb-ft versus 300 for the 335i kind of says it all....


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## DnA Diesel (Jul 31, 2010)

Agree with N4S. This is a pointless test, and although the numbers are likely accurate, no one would lug an engine in a tall gear and still try to accelerate quickly without downshifting. It's stupid stuff like this that doesn't help, because it reduces the validity of diesel's true strong points with a pointless comparison. :thumbdwn:


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## János (Jun 19, 2010)

So... why does C&D publish those numbers - is there a valid reason?

What it _seems _to mean is that the petrol cars would of course need to downshift in order to accelerate adequately whereas the diesel could (theoretically) stay in top gear.

I suppose it is interesting data but not really applicable to normal use.


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## traderfjp (Aug 22, 2010)

The only problem with 420lbs. of torque is that when you have drinks in the cup holders the wife freaks out when you stomp the pedal. I never get tired of being thrown back into my seat. I do have to get use to the engine note though. It's more truck like than car like at lower speeds. Wouldn't trade it for anything. I've spun the tires a few times too.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

I like the fact that the car doesn't really jerk, the torque is very smooth and you can get up to speed very quickly without much fuss and jerkiness like you would in a gas car such as a 335i.

I tested the 30-50 and 50-70mph earlier. (WOT, _without _hitting the kick down button)
30-50mph in 6th gear seems impossible in my car. When selecting 6th gear in manual mode it will automatically shift to 4th with throttle, it will not stay in 6th. 
50-70mph it will stay in 6th gear in manual mode.

It's possible early 335d's, especially 09s with the first software version had the ability to hold gears since we've had reports of members hitting redline with earlier software versions.
I haven't tried holding down the upshift paddle though as someone once suggested to hold gears, maybe I'll try that tomorrow.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

HIREN said:


> I like the fact that the car doesn't really jerk, the torque is very smooth and you can get up to speed very quickly without much fuss and jerkiness like you would in a gas car such as a 335i.
> 
> I tested the 30-50 and 50-70mph earlier.
> 30-50mph in 6th gear seems impossible in my car. In DS and 6th gear it will automatically shift to 4th with throttle, it will not stay in 6th.
> ...


This is I had suspected. I also tried the same on way home. It's not possible to hold in 6th gear @ 50 and accelerate to 70

The numbers are wrong or mean something different


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## János (Jun 19, 2010)

It's great that some of you are willing to test some of this stuff but please don't do anything crazy on my account...


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

HIREN said:


> I tested the 30-50 and 50-70mph earlier.
> 30-50mph in 6th gear seems impossible in my car. In DS and 6th gear it will automatically shift to 4th with throttle, it will not stay in 6th.


 When you floored it at 30 mph, didn't go into second? Mine does.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

Twilght1 said:


> When you floored it at 30 mph, didn't go into second? Mine does.


I clarified my post. I went Wide open throttle (WOT) without hitting the kick down button. If I did hit the kickdown button it would have went to the lowest gear possible, 2nd.


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## mujjuman (Feb 2, 2009)

Twilght1 said:


> When you floored it at 30 mph, didn't go into second? Mine does.


Put it in manual mode.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

HIREN said:


> I clarified my post. I went Wide open throttle (WOT) without hitting the kick down button. If I did hit the kickdown button it would have went to the lowest gear possible, 2nd.


 Ok, I got ya. I'm not sure but I don't think that would do an acceleration test without flooring the accelerator completely including the kick down button. With the JBD, it's a snap of the fingers from 30-50. :thumbup:


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## Twilght1 (Jul 24, 2009)

mujjuman said:


> Put it in manual mode.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


Do you mean DS? I live in DS, hence my MPG of 21.


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## autoJeff (Oct 1, 2009)

There seems to be some confusion Manual mode means...

First you put the gear selector in DS. The display in dash between spedo and tach changes from D to DS.

Then you push or pull a paddle, or you tweak the gear selector forward or backward. The display changes from DS to Mn, where n is a gear number between 1 and 6 inclusive. The car will not let you select a higher gear than your speed can support. 

Once you are in M, you can step on the accelerator and the car will not automatically down shift. So, if you shift to M6 then step on it, you'll remain in M6 after stepping on it.


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## HIREN (Jul 14, 2006)

I clarified my original post again, I was in manual mode when testing. 
Even in manual mode in 6th gear, the car will down shift on its own if the kick down button is pressed at the end of the pedal (you punch it to the floor).


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

autoJeff said:


> Once you are in M, you can step on the accelerator and the car will not automatically down shift. So, if you shift to M6 then step on it, you'll remain in M6 after stepping on it.


It won't happen. A/T will downshift. I promise


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Mine won't even go in 6th gear when I'm at 30mph - highest gear at that speed is 4th (I think RPMs would be below 1000 in 6th).

On the 50-70 test, I was able to get it to hold 6th gear, but it didn't go to 70 in 3 seconds - and I have the JBD.


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