# Which board sponsor offers lowest ED invoice plus price?



## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

Say hypothetically one is going to do ED and follow it up with Performance Center Delivery (in effect picking up car at same site), is there going to be that much difference in the ED invoice plus price from any of the board sponsors? I'm assuming none of the board sponsors add on additional fees to complicate the comparisons. I recognize it may vary depending on model or season, but has anyone here actually compared the markups of the various board sponsors for your vehicle? (Edited to add: per JSpira's note go ahead and include differences in add on fees as well.)


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Northcar said:


> I'm assuming none of the board sponsors add on additional fees to complicate the comparisons.


I would not make that assumption.


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## x26 (Sep 16, 2007)

Northcar said:


> Say hypothetically one is going to do ED and follow it up with Performance Center Delivery (in effect picking up car at same site), is there going to be that much difference in the ED invoice plus price from any of the board sponsors? I'm assuming none of the board sponsors add on additional fees to complicate the comparisons. I recognize it may vary depending on model or season, but has anyone here actually compared the markups of the various board sponsors for your vehicle? (Edited to add: per JSpira's note go ahead and include differences in add on fees as well.)


Check out Irv Robinson...Most pleasant experience I've ever had!


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## BillLumberg (Mar 30, 2006)

JSpira said:


> I would not make that assumption.


No BS fees w/ PK! :thumbup:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

BillLumberg said:


> No BS fees w/ PK! :thumbup:


Well, let´s take a minute and define ,,BS`` fees which could include marked-up money factors and bank fees.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Irv may be a nice guy, but his employer will play games with numbers, especially on the lease math. Let the buyer beware with Motor Werks of Barrington, Illinois because they are duplicitous. They do however have a fine service department.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

Yea...

Your post will be received with all the welcome of a Viking raiding party.

Contact the sponsors, compare the results. Nobody's going to preselect the offers for you.


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## Northcar (Sep 21, 2005)

coontie said:


> Yea...
> 
> Your post will be received with all the welcome of a Viking raiding party.
> 
> Contact the sponsors, compare the results. Nobody's going to preselect the offers for you.


The question is not being posed for myself. I am simply curious if there is little difference between the various board sponsors if one ignores the factor of finding one close.


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

Northcar said:


> The question is not being posed for myself. I am simply curious if there is little difference between the various board sponsors if one ignores the factor of finding one close.


I have to confess that I'm aware of the consistency in pricing among the board sponsors. From what I know, it's between $1,000-$1,500 for most models. I think the "bs" (or owner retirement fees which I liken them to) can vary modestly, but all in all, it ultimately depends on who _you_ want to do business with and your geographic location and logistical redelivery preferences which include PCD.

I've noticed in the past that some board sponsors urge PCD as a bridge in lieu of taking redelivery at centers that may be logistically prohibitive. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it has certainly encroached the regional sponsorship markets, i.e. VA, GA, FL.

Then again, speaking for myself and Phillipe, there's some clients who appreciate the unselfish contributions we've made to the forums over the years since 2003 and being the most senior dealer sponsor on the boards since 2005 that will go through great lengths and expense just to give their business to us as a way of giving back what what we give to the spirit of Bimmerfest.

So if bottom line $ cost is the ultimate goal, I think at the end of the day, we'll all be in line and there may be some modest variance.

Being in Atlanta and 10 minutes from the airport, it's been really cool to be able to offer parking while on ED and even drop off and pick up at the airport for those within reasonable driving distance who fly out of ATL. Or pick up at the airport for redelivery for non-PCD's.

As far as going local versus board sponsor, I've read many instances where either lack of ED process knowledge or pricing was enough for alot of prospective EDer's to just throw up their hands in frustration and just have the peace of mind of going with a board sponsor.

But here's the thing, we're not the only ones who know how to do ED. BMW ED wouldn't have had banner years with just the board sponsors doing all the ED business. Indeed, the myth has prevailed that ED process is far too complicated for the average CA. It can be intimidating at first, I admit. The ultimate question then becomes not just about price or even logistics, but the before, during, and after of the ED. I've found that most people simply buy from who they like, trust, and respect. You have to factor that into the negotiated sale value of ED.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

adrian's bmw said:


> But here's the thing, we're not the only ones who know how to do ED. BMW ED wouldn't have had banner years with just the board sponsors doing all the ED business. Indeed, the myth has prevailed that ED process is far too complicated for the average CA. It can be intimidating at first, I admit. The ultimate question then becomes not just about price or even logistics, but the before, during, and after of the ED. I've found that most people simply buy from who they like, trust, and respect. You have to factor that into the negotiated sale value of ED.


I think that many CA´s simply don´t wish to bother with additional paperwork and such (after all, European Delivery is the only time a car purchase involves bringing one´s Paß to the dealership) and don´t see the value in building a relationship with customers who are already getting the Euro. Delivery discount and want more.

I especially agree with the sentence that I highlighted above. There is no question that you, Ricki, Philippe, Irv, u.a. have earned the respect and trust of customers and there is tremendous value right there.


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## dkotanto (Jan 26, 2003)

adrian's bmw said:


> I have to confess that I'm aware of the consistency in pricing among the board sponsors. From what I know, it's between $1,000-$1,500 for most models. I think the "bs" (or owner retirement fees which I liken them to) can vary modestly, but all in all, it ultimately depends on who _you_ want to do business with and your geographic location and logistical redelivery preferences which include PCD.
> 
> I've noticed in the past that some board sponsors urge PCD as a bridge in lieu of taking redelivery at centers that may be logistically prohibitive. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it has certainly encroached the regional sponsorship markets, i.e. VA, GA, FL.
> 
> ...


I live in Colorado and this December, it will be my 3rd ED from Adrian. Sure, I *may* have saved a couple of hundred bucks if I shopped around and spend countless hours wondering if I got the best possible deal or question why dealer x is charging .00001 less in the MF vs. dealer y. But my time is valuable and board sponsors have proven over and over that they are more than fair in pricing (they still need to make a living), be the most knowledgeable and most accommodating to your needs. Good enough for me to trust them enough to pick up the car 1000+ miles away for a hassle free and pleasant experience. And, I don't mind at all the long drive back home and looking forward for the next one :thumbup:


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

+1 for buying from a board sponsor!

Very happy with Philippe Kahn from South Bay BMW in California :thumbup:


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## JanV (Mar 31, 2008)

*Be comfortable with your dealer*

I tried the board sponsor route but Irv who came out with a fair offer was too far away for even PCD and Ricki was unresponsive, came out with a higher profit demand and had a take or leave it attitude. I did some research and although a number of local dealers had little familiarity with ED I did find two dealers very near me who were knowledgible and got me a deal I was comfortable with. I ended up going with James Milligan of BMW of the Main Line in Philadelphia, Pa. He has been knowlegible and straight forward and so far (my desired delivery date is June) I have had zero reasons to doubt his expertise or honesty.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

I agree with Adrian, it's nice to get the absolute lowest price, but peace of mind is also worth a lot to some folks, myself included.


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## jl5555 (Jan 28, 2003)

I get the distinct feeling over my last couple of ED buying experiences that local dealers tire of working the ED system. Whether it be through lack of knowledge about it or knowledge they can sell a car at sticker to any ole chucklehead coming in the door, my discussions with my local dealers have not gone well regarding "invoice +" pricing. 

I went quite far for my last ED to get a good invoice + price and while I do appreciate the dealer experience nearby I would go far again to get the deal. 

FWIW, even though my last car was sourced through Chicago, I have had no issues driving up to my local BMW service center for any assistance. This includes adding a quart of $6 synthetic oil. The service manager did manage to complain to me about that but I just smiled and shrugged my shoulders.


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## Kel (Mar 29, 2003)

You may wish to consider not only the mark up, but their recent experiences in doing many ED's---far too many sales people and delaers are not interested / experienced in ED.


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## crvlvr (Sep 11, 2007)

I would not assume the board sponsor's job is to give away best deals.

Arm yourself with all the pertinent information so you can ask the right questsions. Having said that, dealing with the board sponsor from my area was the most pleasant car buying/leasing experience I have ever had.


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## Gig103 (Sep 10, 2007)

rmorin49 said:


> I agree with Adrian, it's nice to get the absolute lowest price, but peace of mind is also worth a lot to some folks, myself included.


Peace of mind is huge!!! I went with Irv because I knew from the start I could trust him to get things done quickly and accurately, and that there wouldn't be any problems. Since I am planning a wedding for the weekend before our Welt pickup, there wasn't any room for surprises, like "OOps, I forgot to put your reservation in."


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## CarSwami (Oct 2, 2005)

For me, having a hassle free experience was just as important as the ultimate price of the vehicle, and I was willing to pay a couple hundred $$ more if it meant that the ED process would go smoothly. So I made an offer that I thought was reasonable to me and to my CA, and we agreed upon the price without any back-and-forth haggling. At the end of the day, I had an absolutely memorable ED experience, and my CA made a few $$ as well. Both of us were happy with the transaction.


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## Kief (Dec 6, 2007)

JanV said:


> I tried the board sponsor route but Irv who came out with a fair offer was too far away for even PCD and Ricki was unresponsive, came out with a higher profit demand and had a take or leave it attitude. I did some research and although a number of local dealers had little familiarity with ED I did find two dealers very near me who were knowledgible and got me a deal I was comfortable with. I ended up going with James Milligan of BMW of the Main Line in Philadelphia, Pa. He has been knowlegible and straight forward and so far (my desired delivery date is June) I have had zero reasons to doubt his expertise or honesty.


I'm in PA and had a wonderful experience working with Ricki. :thumbup: Just took redelivery last week! Remember fellow Festers, there are always 2 sides to every story


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

I have had nothing but good experiences with my local dealer service department including loaners since my x3 ED in Oct 04. While I genuinely appreciate the sponsorship of the dealers on Bimmerfest, I would deal with the same folks who did my first ED based on the after sales support.

They matched the best deal I could find locally and I expect will do so again when its time to pick up an x1 in a couple of years. If not, dealing with the sponsors will certainly be in play.:thumbup:

Cheers


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## Kief (Dec 6, 2007)

X3 Skier said:


> I have had nothing but good experiences with my local dealer service department including loaners since my x3 ED in Oct 04. While I genuinely appreciate the sponsorship of the dealers on Bimmerfest, I would deal with the same folks who did my first ED based on the after sales support.
> 
> They matched the best deal I could find locally and I expect will do so again when its time to pick up an x1 in a couple of years. If not, dealing with the sponsors will certainly be in play.:thumbup:
> 
> Cheers


I can say the same thing about my local dealer as well. The service dept. continues to go above and beyond for me. :thumbup: In fact, the service manager said he would "forget" I did not purchase my current ED car from them and would provide me with a loaner.

However, my local CA was unable to be anywhere near the deal I had with Ricki @ DiFeo. And this would have been my 5th Bimmer from them! There is no bad blood between us, just there were too many "fees," according to him, that were out of his control. Maybe next time or maybe not!


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## Kel (Mar 29, 2003)

It would be helpful to post how much over ED Wholesale Invoice you were able to negotiate for your model, even if we are not allowed to post from wich dealer.


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## AZ-BMW (Dec 16, 2006)

JanV said:


> I tried the board sponsor route but Irv who came out with a fair offer was too far away for even PCD


Huh :dunno:
Too far away for PCD? *Everything* can be done by phone, E-Mail and FedEx for a non-local deal whether it be an ED, PCD or ED/PCD type deal


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## Kel (Mar 29, 2003)

A friend I suggested to contact Irv, did not even get a quote back from Irv. Puzzling.


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## Vitacura (Jul 22, 2005)

Kel said:


> A friend I suggested to contact Irv, did not even get a quote back from Irv. Puzzling.


Did your friend follow up? They are very very busy, so it is easy to understand how one quote can be misplaced or forgotten.


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## Vanos4:12PM (Apr 20, 2007)

So when I get ready to shop for my car and an ED, do the salespeople get a commision off of ED?'s I guess my question is do you tell them right away you are wanting to do an ED or wait to the end so you get better service as you are test driving, lookig at options, etc.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Vanos4:12PM said:


> So when I get ready to shop for my car and an ED, do the salespeople get a commision off of ED?'s I guess my question is do you tell them right away you are wanting to do an ED or wait to the end so you get better service as you are test driving, lookig at options, etc.


In other words create a real relationship of trust by doing what you suggest, thereby guaranteeing incredible service and support during the process ? :dunno:


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## Mental (Apr 23, 2008)

Contacted Irv by Email yesterday and I got a reply in 30 min. He asked for my phone number, and he called within the hour, and was up front and informative.


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

i have repeatedly try to work with local dealers (Metro Detroit) but they won't even budge off full, ED MSRP, ever...

so, I can't justify paying (wasting) a couple thousand dollars by leasing locally, when I can save a ton and go outta state.

I used Adrian (board sponsor) and he gave me a fair deal, no hassle, great transaction.


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## claud 3 (Jun 27, 2005)

For my first ED, I dealt with Adrian. I wanted to avoid the "oops" factor with an experienced ED specialist. I'm scheduled for PCD delivery on 8/15/08 and so far, no "oops". The price was fair and within the "decent deal" guidelines that I have seen here the 2+ years I have haunted this forum. The next time I buy a BMW, I'm going to call him even if its not an ED.


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## Vanos4:12PM (Apr 20, 2007)

any help in my question from 7.13.08?


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

Vanos4:12PM said:


> So when I get ready to shop for my car and an ED, do the salespeople get a commision off of ED?'s I guess my question is do you tell them right away you are wanting to do an ED or wait to the end so you get better service as you are test driving, lookig at options, etc.


Yes, naturally, they would get a commission based on the profit made on the sale whether it me ED or US delivery.

If you tell them right away that you're doing ED, you risk them running away from you like a herd of water buffalo running from a lion.

No, I'm kidding. Seriously, you might want to schedule an appt. with whoever handles ED because your avg CA might not know enough about the program and it's nice to have someone who knows what they're doing.


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## JanV (Mar 31, 2008)

Got me Convertible without a hitch. Even enjoyed the soccer in Germany with the crowds & the beer & the streets closed off! No fights, everyone was extremely friendly. Came back & James Milligan of MainLine BMW near Philly was great to deal with. Been stopped at lights & people wind down windows to admire the car... bimmer heaven!


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## JanV (Mar 31, 2008)

*Kief*

I see you are a Ricki fan. I have had a number of private posts about Ricki raising prices, attitude etc. They have all stated that after they get delivery they will post complaints. I hope they do. I stand behind my original statement that Ricki was rude and overpriced! I got honest & fair feedback & pricing from Adrian & Irv (below Ricki's take it or leave it price). I opted to go local & went with James Milligan from Mainline BMW in Philadelphia. The guy is honest, knows what he is doing, everything went off without a hitch & he even cleaned off a couple of spots the detailers had missed before I drove off (& gave me 4 small models of convertibles for the kids [& me]). Heck, I had foot surgery & was banned from driving during my original pick up date & he made sure I was given alternative choices that were acceptible to me! And his pricing was fair and competative! Programmed my bluetooth, explained everything & was a pleasure to deal with. Kief, as you said... there are two sides to every story!


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

JanV said:


> I can say the same thing about my local dealer as well. The service dept. continues to go above and beyond for me. In fact, the service manager said he would "forget" I did not purchase my current ED car from them and would provide me with a loaner.
> 
> However, my local CA was unable to be anywhere near the deal I had with Ricki @ DiFeo. And this would have been my 5th Bimmer from them! There is no bad blood between us, just there were too many "fees," according to him, that were out of his control. Maybe next time or maybe not!


Good to hear on all accounts. :thumbup:


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