# X5D DEF/Ad Blue Deleted gone forever, would not be missed



## tol4o (Jul 25, 2010)

Right at 65k miles, emission light came on again after few previous resets, this time, together with the dreaded 200 miles range until no start and complete shut down! WTF
Something related to DEF problem and NOx emissions. Dealer quoted me over $3000 for a "possible" solution - NOx sensors replacement, DEF injector replacement and DEF tank replacement. Basically replace and test, and I have to pay for this trial diagnostic? No way
So I had enough of this emission BS and I did a complete DEF/Ad Blue delete - DEF fluid was drained, sensors disconnected, DEF tank cold weather heater disconnected. Followed by software DEF delete in ECU and clearing off the Christmas three emission lights errors on the dash. Basically it became an Euro X5 35D with DPF and CAT still working, but no more DEF BS. X5 E70 Euro diesels have same SRC system, except the problematic DEF system added in the NA model 

There you go, fixed it once and forever, no more messy DEF fluid and expensive emission repairs 
Completed project cost $600


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

*California CARB standards?*

Interesting. I am of the understanding that Massachusetts adopted CARB's testing standards.


----------



## tol4o (Jul 25, 2010)

Doug Huffman said:


> Interesting. I am of the understanding that Massachusetts adopted CARB's testing standards.


We took the X5 with us back to Europe, but even if the car was still in MA, I believe it would pass ECU emission test. Software modification should be something similar to VW Diesel Gate 
ECU was out of the vehicle cracked open, connector soldered to ECU flash memory, software downloaded, modified and uploaded back, ECU back in, start the engine and Voila, no more DEF and error messages


----------



## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

tol4o said:


> Right at 65k miles, emission light came on again after few previous resets, this time, together with the dreaded 200 miles range until no start and complete shut down! WTF
> Something related to DEF problem and NOx emissions. Dealer quoted me over $3000 for a "possible" solution - NOx sensors replacement, DEF injector replacement and DEF tank replacement. Basically replace and test, and I have to pay for this trial diagnostic? No way
> ...


I believe that Doug is referring to the fact that MA has adopted the CARB standards, which also includes a 7/70K warranty on all emissions equipment. Which means that you (probably) wouldn't have had to pay anything to get it fixed.


----------



## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

tol4o said:


> We took the X5 with us back to Europe, but even if the car was still in MA, I believe it would pass ECU emission test. Software modification should be something similar to VW Diesel Gate
> ECU was out of the vehicle cracked open, connector soldered to ECU flash memory, software downloaded, modified and uploaded back, ECU back in, start the engine and Voila, no more DEF and error messages


Who did that delete? I am interested in that since I am kind of getting sick of SCR system. I do not mind EGR and DPF, but SCR is becoming nonsense, and I have CPO. 
I just found 4D18 code, and probably what will happen dealer will replace NoX sensors and possibly CAT. But still, I would like to keep car due to torque, and the way it drives, but this is becoming ridiculous. Dealer already replaced active tank, passive tank, metering valve, and will see now what happens.


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Of what value is the two year parts and labor warranty on dealer repairs?


----------



## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Doug Huffman said:


> Of what value is the two year parts and labor warranty on dealer repairs?


Question to me?
I have CPO until 01/2019, but planning to keep car longer. I seriously do not want to go and buy some bland SUV that drives like POS. Good thing is that I am at 70K, and will have brand new NoX sensors. So will see. I might just go with current set up until all these new parts fail again and then do SCR delete. I highly doubt BOSCH updated active/passive tanks etc. to fix issues.


----------



## Dieselk8 (May 6, 2017)

So where can you have this done or what do you need to order. I see there are plug n play devices...has anyone tried these?


----------



## Kaktusjaque (Mar 7, 2014)

I have been looking at E70s. I came across a CL add, and the owner stated "Unlike any other Diesel BMW, this one will not ever have a single issue with EGR/DPF/SCR since its all removed and software tuned". He also claims, " 350hp/500ftlb software reflash with scr and filtration delete. Because if this delete, the car can get around 34mpg as long as you are not heavy on gas" 

This raised a few questions with me, 
Is this a desirable thing to do? 
Will there be any codes with these items gone? 
If all other factors are good with me, would this be a vehicle to consider with these modifications?

KJ


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

All other factors being good with you includes all of the other issues notorious with BMW? Sure. How about your local emissions testing requirements? Codes or not, readiness codes, all depend on the adequacy of the "software tune and reflash."


----------



## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

tol4o said:


> We took the X5 with us back to Europe, but even if the car was still in MA, I believe it would pass ECU emission test. Software modification should be something similar to VW Diesel Gate
> ECU was out of the vehicle cracked open, connector soldered to ECU flash memory, software downloaded, modified and uploaded back, ECU back in, start the engine and Voila, no more DEF and error messages


IMO, you should not make this claim unless you actually KNOW this to be a fact.
For example, does the DDE set 'readiness codes' for things like Nox and DEF controls? Will a modified ECO actually report that the system is active and ready when it has actually been disabled?

To blithely state what you did "SHOULD be equivalent to VW diesel gate, " is disingenuous. You have no idea at all. In fact all data point to the VW defect system being far more advanced than your 'all the time disabled' hack.

Personally I have no horse in this race (other than me and my family have to breathe)...but my issue is people misrepresenting the possibilities of future issues, with "I don't know, I'm in Europe- but it should be no problem at all".

Again, there is a lot about emissions inspections regarding DDE interrogation we know nothing about....


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

You can absolutely pass an OBD smog check with a completely deleted car if you get the tune done that way. As far as I know, the current tuners are setting the monitors to "not available" rather than "ready" so that it does not look like theyre trying to help people cheat emissions testing, so you would have to work with the tuner to get the monitors set correctly. If you pull in to a smog check and all the monitors say not available, they will know its been tampered and not pass you. Even if you get the monitors set to ready, if the guy pulls the car in and smells the early 2000s diesel truck scent he might realize something is wrong and look further.


----------



## Kostyan (Aug 8, 2014)

what are legal repercussions. Can you get sued after you sell the vehicle?

Would you be able to sleep at night after selling or trading a deleted X5. Selling while marked for "off road use only" would hit you in the wallet on a resale as if you were to sell a salvage.


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Kostyan said:


> what are legal repercussions. Can you get sued after you sell the vehicle?
> 
> Would you be able to sleep at night after selling or trading a deleted X5. Selling while marked for "off road use only" would hit you in the wallet on a resale as if you were to sell a salvage.


How it works where you are may be different from here. I would never sell a car in CA that does not pass smog as the seller is on the hook for the cost of repairs.


----------



## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

OP, how is your X5 working after using the DEF delete for a few months? Interested in doing the same mod once my X5 hits 120k and is out of the BMW extended warranty.


----------



## vlad50 (Sep 3, 2020)

finnbmw said:


> OP, how is your X5 working after using the DEF delete for a few months? Interested in doing the same mod once my X5 hits 120k and is out of the BMW extended warranty.


----------



## vlad50 (Sep 3, 2020)

Who can do the DEF delete ? My 2011 X5 diesel has all kind of emission codes and BS that cost more than the value of the car! Please help


----------



## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

1. unless you are 100% positive removing the DEF will solve "all" your "BS" emissions codes, Id be cautious.

2. How do you know all these codes are "BS"? The expert that has told you they are BS codes should surely be capable of removing the DEF system.

3. You want help, you're gonna need to put in the effort. Namely ....provide all the details. 

4. Oh yeah... if you want someone to do a DEF delete, would be useful to know which country you are in. Maybe state. Maybe city too...


----------



## vlad50 (Sep 3, 2020)

Thank you for your nice and cautious response. I live in Miami ,Florida. No emission control here. In Europe, I have a similar car without DEF It has 385,000 Km -no repairs, no codes, no lights on dashboard !I drive the car with a handicaped person (my daughter) very short distances,for dayly needs.The car is worth 5-6,000 $ I allready changed the 2 turbos, EGR,2 sensors and still after 10min of driving it goes into the limping mode...Now ,BMW dealer is telling me that DPF is a probable cause and also could be the passive tank sensor ! this shooting in the dark cost a fortune ! A DEF delete would solve all this mess. Please advise. ( Who can do it ?). Thank you so much.


----------



## floor-it (Sep 23, 2020)

I was in the same boat, CEL for years. Tossed $2k to dealer thinking it's EGR issue. Then recently DPF warning after 10 minutes of driving. I bit the bullet and bought a set of quick jack and ripped out the DPF. Replaced it with new down & mid pipes. It was a tough job, but not impossible. 
Once it's out, got it tuned and now it's like better than when it was new! 
I'm not sure you can find shops that remove emissions equipment. So DIY might be your only route.


----------

