# Check Engine Light Again



## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

I have a 2011 X535D with just over 91K and the check engine light has come on again. No Loss of power and everything seems okay. I've even checked the fuel cap. The bigger question is if I'm in for another big expense. At 80k the DEF sensor in the DEF tank failed and initial cost was $2300 to fix. After some bitching at BMW and being a 7 time owner and thanks to help in the forum I got off for about $600 and BMW covered the rest. Moved to Colorado and at 86K another low power and engine warning lights uncovered a "large leak coming from lower pressure pipe to the intercooler. Also found turbocharger oil supply line leaking" No further customer love from BMW so $740. Any high mileage Bimmers out there that can tell me what to expect if I want to get to 200K mileage. Love the vehicle for it's size and comfort but wondering if it will be worth trying to get another 100k


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Without a code, I think it's impossible for anyone to do anything but guess as to the issue and the cost. That being said, I would do two things. 
1. You're out of warranty, stop going to the dealer. In a city like Chicago there have got to be some BMW or Euro car specialists. I would find one who has diesel knowledge, it seems that here in CA the independents all have a tech wiki owns a diesel or they've seen several in for service. 
2. BMW will likely reimburse you for your out of pocket on the DEF tank as they expanded warranty on that part. Plug in last 7 of your VIN on site below and follow process to get reimbursed. http://www.bmw-rp.com/production/isg/bmw/reimbursement_bmw_portal.nsf/submit.xsp

Post back with updates and resolution as it's the point of these forums.

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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Can't be due to a loose fuel cap. No EVAP system in a diesel vehicle.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

Outside of warranty, these cars are a financial black hole for anyone who is, for whatever reason, either unwilling or unable to do a full emissions delete conversion.


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## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

FredoinSF said:


> Without a code, I think it's impossible for anyone to do anything but guess as to the issue and the cost. That being said, I would do two things.
> 1. You're out of warranty, stop going to the dealer. In a city like Chicago there have got to be some BMW or Euro car specialists. I would find one who has diesel knowledge, it seems that here in CA the independents all have a tech wiki owns a diesel or they've seen several in for service.
> 2. BMW will likely reimburse you for your out of pocket on the DEF tank as they expanded warranty on that part. Plug in last 7 of your VIN on site below and follow process to get reimbursed. http://www.bmw-rp.com/production/isg/bmw/reimbursement_bmw_portal.nsf/submit.xsp
> 
> ...


So Now the dealer says the computer is showing the upstream and downstream NOX sensors are reading slow. They want $1900 to replace. How necessary is it to replace the sensors? Didn't say they were faulty just slow. What effect would this have on the vehicle if I don't replace now. I don't notice an operational performance issue.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Again, no code, so again can't give concrete help.

I am going to take a SWAG and guess you have a P20EE error code. It can turn into a nightmare and there are a couple of active thread on the topic on E70 forum:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957945

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892417

The pre cat sensor fails early apparently and it's not cheap unfortunately. The nightmare comes if the sensor does not do the trick at which point you'd better hope the tech is not throwing parts and your money at the problem until he / she gets lucky. I would check if IL has similar emissions part coverage as CA (a handful of states do, not sure if IL is one) as the sensor is covered under that reg.


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## Ozer (Sep 17, 2015)

BMW has very specific codes for almost everything so you need to pull codes or go to a parts store have them pull it and post it for help on the codes.
Otherwise its like getting fart cramps and worrying about having colon cancer or something like that. Could be anything


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

Code-reading capability is a must-have for any BMW owner out of warranty.


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## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

*Update and More woes*



BMW7X said:


> So Now the dealer says the computer is showing the upstream and downstream NOX sensors are reading slow. They want $1900 to replace. How necessary is it to replace the sensors? Didn't say they were faulty just slow. What effect would this have on the vehicle if I don't replace now. I don't notice an operational performance issue.


So the original Nox code was 004976 and the remedy was to replace the upstream and downstream sensors.

Not 100 miles later the CEL comes on again. After having a "team huddle" (service advisors words) of the dealers diesel techs, they concluded that though the fault code 004D16 only tripped a few times compared to the thousands of times for the Nox sensors that the solution is now to replace the SCR Catalytic Converter.

"Found Faults 00D16 SCR system, Effeciency fault currently not present. Fault frequency 1, ran pattern of dosing valve, V Pattern is good. We could not inspect mixer due to rusted nuts. Ran test plan for Nox sensor. Both Nox sensors are good. Check correct spray pattern of dosing valve. V pattern is good. Could not inspect mixer due to rusted nuts. Rans SCR Function test. As result of the SCR test plan, REC replace the scr catalytic converter. Due to damaged nut on the down pipe for the catalytic converter will need extra time to remove damaged nuts. Downpipe might need to be replaced."

So I elected to do nothing and had them reset the computer and I manage to go 300 miles and then my good friend CEL appears again. So I start a new car hunt and of course a non BMW dealer throws it on their code breaker and tell me it's probably the main DEF Filter and the part alone is $5500. So of course that's reflected in the trade in value. Not a gearhead and not capable of doing my own maintenance, so I'm back to the BMW dealer on monday to see what they say this time about the CEL. I'm suspicious that the original diagnois of the NOX sensors was incorrect and the dealer is throwing parts at the problem with my wallet backing it up. Anyone been down this road? Vehicle just turned 92,350 miles.

Last 6 months

Mileage 
80, 370 Replaced SCR Passive tank Bitched at BMW they covered 75% $100.92
without BMW help would have cost $2300
86,290 Replaced oil supply line and pressure pipe to Turbo Charger $738.78
91211 Replaced NOX sensors Pre and Post $1771
91468 SCR Catalytic converter diagnosed $$2858.05 if this is the correct diagnosis

Is there a $5500 part that could also be contributing to my exhaust woes? do i bail on my diesel? Could towing a small airstream (3000 lbs) be contributing to what I would say is premature failure? Or is this expected performance for this vehicle?


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

I would agree that having code reading ability is important. If you can read the codes, you can save yourself from a lot of grief. You can get specific advice here, and you can get a leg up on preventing gouging by mechanics with boat payments due.

There are a number of apps if you have a smart phone (either Android or iOS) that will prove worth the $100 or so to play. Carly for BMW is a highly regarded one, Blue Driver is another, but less capable. These will both read codes and add instrumentation that you might find useful.

For instance, you have not coolant temperature gauge. Or boost pressure gauge. Or exhaust gas temperature gauge. Sometimes it is helpful to have them, and the apps provide a way to read those sensors, which your BMW already has in place.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BMW7X said:


> So Now the dealer says the computer is showing the upstream and downstream NOX sensors are reading slow. They want $1900 to replace. How necessary is it to replace the sensors? Didn't say they were faulty just slow. What effect would this have on the vehicle if I don't replace now. I don't notice an operational performance issue.


I've never heard of a slow reading sensor?:dunno:


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

BMW7X said:


> So the original Nox code was 004976 and the remedy was to replace the upstream and downstream sensors.
> 
> Not 100 miles later the CEL comes on again. After having a "team huddle" (service advisors words) of the dealers diesel techs, they concluded that though the fault code 004D16 only tripped a few times compared to the thousands of times for the Nox sensors that the solution is now to replace the SCR Catalytic Converter.
> 
> ...


If all you will do is keep going back to the BMW dealer and paying their asking, why ask here?


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## ChrisM011 (Jun 25, 2007)

Your problem is likely the SCR catalytic converter. BMW does not troubleshoot the "old fashioned" way. What they are trained to do now is use the service computer to help them decide which parts to replace, and since there are many components in each system that work together they just follow a decision tree. They are NOT trying to find the cause of the problem on the first try. This is why it is strongly recommended to find a good independent mechanic, or do your own work, when owning one of these out of warranty.

The dealer you had evaluate the car for trade-in was doing nothing more than trying to artificially deflate the trade-in value of your car. Your DPF is likely fine.

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## J.J. (Apr 14, 2007)

It is a shame / tragedy the emission system keeps this from being a long lasting fantastic vehicle. I hate hearing stories like these. Please continue to keep us updated about your problems and progress.


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