# Schroth 4 Point Harness- Clip In or Regular (Bolt In)?



## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

It's time for me to order a pair of harnesses for the upcoming track season for my E36. Looks like I'll get the 4 point Schroth ones. There are two flavors- the clip in variety which remove easily and the bolt in, somewhat more permanent ones. I don't mind the extra effort for the bolt in install. And I don't mind that the bolt in ones can't be removed so easily because this is pretty much just a track car. The bolt in ones are about $150 cheaper than the clip in ones. But the HMS web site says that the clip in ones work more with the car's seat belts, and are thus safer. So maybe get the safer, more expensive ones?

Any opinions out there on which one to get?

(PS. Akakubi- Maybe I'll order them from your shop.)


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## BobC (Jun 17, 2003)

I would call HMS and ask them about it. I've always found them to be very helpfull and friendly.

I had the bolt in ones in my '96 328i. It was not a problem to stuff them under the seat when I was driving the car on the street. I've seen the clip in ones. It's nice that they can come out all the way when not in use but in my opionion it's not $150 nice.


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## Galun (Aug 14, 2002)

I have the bolt in ones in my 330. Like BobC had mentioned, it was not a problem to stuff them under the seat when I was driving the car on the street. When I am driving on the street, I hide the rear passenger compartment portion of the harness under the passenger seat, and the driver's portion of the harness under the driver's seat. It's completely out of sight. At the track, it takes 5 minutes to re-attach everything.

The only advantage I see is the integration of the harness into the stock seatbelt system, so the car senses that someone is strapped in the seat and therefore "deploy the airbag slower" in case of an accident. Well, if you are strapped in correctly with the harness, I assume that you shouldn't move forward enough to get hit by the airbag?

By the way, the club instructors recommend putting harnesses in cars with a roll bar / cage, or at least one with a B pillar (sedan). Also, if you intend on doing driving schools, many clubs require equal protection for the driver and the passenger - so get two harnesses!


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Thanks guys.



Galun said:


> The only advantage I see is the integration of the harness into the stock seatbelt system, so the car senses that someone is strapped in the seat and therefore "deploy the airbag slower" in case of an accident.


Yeah, that's kind of what I'm wondering about. That's really the only consideration to go for teh more expensive ones.



Galun said:


> Also, if you intend on doing driving schools, many clubs require equal protection for the driver and the passenger - so get two harnesses!


Yup, so the price difference between the two gets doubled.


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## cenotaph (Dec 19, 2001)

Galun said:


> By the way, the club instructors recommend putting harnesses in cars with a roll bar / cage, or at least one with a B pillar (sedan).


I'm not exactly sure what you meant, but:
1) AFAIK, the Schroth 4-point harnesses are designed to be used without any other equipment (i.e. a bar/cage) and drivers in Germany apparently use them on the street regularly;
2) The (E46) 3 series "coups" have a B pillar and are therefore actually 2-door sedans. From what I remember, this is also true of E36 and E30 "coups".


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## Galun (Aug 14, 2002)

cenotaph said:


> I'm not exactly sure what you meant, but:
> 1) AFAIK, the Schroth 4-point harnesses are designed to be used without any other equipment (i.e. a bar/cage) and drivers in Germany apparently use them on the street regularly;
> 2) The (E46) 3 series "coups" have a B pillar and are therefore actually 2-door sedans. From what I remember, this is also true of E36 and E30 "coups".


1) With a 4 point harness, some people claim that they can't duck forward or sideways in a roll-over accident (collapsing roof). That's why they want a roll bar / cage to reinforce the roof. The harness itself is designed to be used with or without other equipment.

2) I was referring to the middle pillar in a sedan as a structural reinforcement of the roof. Without a roll bar / cage, the B-pillar in a sedan is the next best thing that actually will help prevent the roof from collapsing. I always thought of sedans having A B C pillars and coupes only have A and C pillars. Maybe I was wrong in terminology, but it doesn't change my point.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Without reading the answers.

I have bolt in ones. I like the idea of having either harness available without doing anything.

As for getting the bolt in out of the way, it is pretty easy. You unclip the shoulder harness from the part that goes back to the rear seats, and then pull the harness through the head rest and flip it under the street. Rear seat passengers have to sit on the bit of the harness or you can stuff it into the seat.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Galun said:


> 1) With a 4 point harness, some people claim that they can't duck forward or sideways in a roll-over accident (collapsing roof). That's why they want a roll bar / cage to reinforce the roof. The harness itself is designed to be used with or without other equipment.
> 
> 2) I was referring to the middle pillar in a sedan as a structural reinforcement of the roof. Without a roll bar / cage, the B-pillar in a sedan is the next best thing that actually will help prevent the roof from collapsing. I always thought of sedans having A B C pillars and coupes only have A and C pillars. Maybe I was wrong in terminology, but it doesn't change my point.


1) Funny since the Schroth 4 pts are DOT approved and TUV approved for street use. Also how many cars have you seen flipped and crushed, not racing, but street and or DE? I keep seeing the same one car over and over. Wold you rather have better protection for the MUCH more common hit the railing head on or the off chance of a roll AND crush.

2) Since the 70s all cars have B pillars and have to meet the same roll over standards as sedans, which are MUCH tougher than the old days.

Now in an SUV this is a concern, since they don't meet the car safety standards for roll over.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Terry- Thanks. You always provide useful insights. What did you mean by this:



Pinecone said:


> I like the idea of having either harness available without doing anything.


Given that this is for my track car, inconvenience issues such as rear passengers, do not concern me.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

JonW said:


> Terry- Thanks. You always provide useful insights. What did you mean by this:
> 
> Given that this is for my track car, inconvenience issues such as rear passengers, do not concern me.


With the clip ins, you cannot use the standard harnes without unclipping the 4pt. Both for the front seat or the back. With the bolt ins, you could actually wear the 3 pt over the 4 pt. 

It also means an extra step back and forth at the track.

What I do with mine, is for the driver side, I just fold the 4 pt back around the sides of the seat on the street. It is always fully hooked up.

On the passenger side, I unclip the rear section nad drop the entire harness to the rear floor. This makes the rear seat accessible from the passenger side. Not that we carry passengers very often, but we can tilt the seat forwad to put stuff in the back seat.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

Terry- Thanks again for the info. :thumbup: Sounds like the bolt ins are the way to go. Plenty convenient for me and I can save a little cash.


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## cenotaph (Dec 19, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> 2) Since the 70s all cars have B pillars


False and here's a picture of an 8 series to prove it. It likely had to meet the same roll standars though.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Forgot about that one. I wonder how they got it to pass roll over tests?


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