# InDash Navigation- The trend is over?



## RaceBlood (May 3, 2010)

According the debates on many levels within the car industry, with smartphones and cheaper options for navigation, car makers are rethinking where to put the money/value for customers.

The new Audi A4 is a prime example, its not standard, A NEW trend?


----------



## Move_Right (Sep 17, 2010)

I seriously doubt built-in nav will go away. I do think it will get cheaper and more ubiquitous. There is alot to be said about the way factory nav integrates with the other systems in the car. Can't do that with a Garmin or iPhone...


----------



## AlexK (Jul 25, 2009)

RaceBlood said:


> According the debates on many levels within the car industry, with smartphones and cheaper options for navigation, car makers are rethinking where to put the money/value for customers.
> 
> The new Audi A4 is a prime example, its not standard, A NEW trend?


WTF are you talking about? It's not standard on many BMW models either, such as the cheaper models of new 5-series or new X3... Some of them do have a smaller "standard" screen, but it doesn't include navigation, and is purely to make it easier for people to configure various car options (which is, IMO, a good thing). And smartphone as navigation... Thanks, but no - I prefer to look at larger screen size when it comes to navigation.


----------



## E92Submarine (Sep 23, 2009)

RaceBlood said:


> According the debates on many levels within the car industry, with smartphones and cheaper options for navigation, car makers are rethinking where to put the money/value for customers.
> 
> The new Audi A4 is a prime example, its not standard, A NEW trend?


Absolutely not. I'd imagine car companies will look more into systems that are modular and can be upgraded during their lifetime.


----------



## captainaudio (Jul 17, 2007)

.


----------



## cwinter (Feb 3, 2009)

Of the top of my head I cannot think of a single vehicle where navigation comes standard. Particularly true with the luxury cars, where just about everything is an option.

I really don't care either way. Due to the fact that phones are so good with this these days, I refuse to pay extra for a navigation system. The few times I need actual help my phone works just fine. I don't need a "follow me" map going to work day in and day out. I don't drive in areas that are horribly trafficky, so the traffic alerts do me no good either and you can still get those on the phone as well.


----------



## ///MyLittlePony (May 22, 2008)

RaceBlood said:


> *According the debates on many levels within the car industry*, with smartphones and cheaper options for navigation, car makers are rethinking where to put the money/value for customers.
> 
> The new Audi A4 is a prime example, its not standard, A NEW trend?


This sounds very similar to the phrase found in scientific papers "It is well known that..."

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jcdverha/scijokes/8_2.html


----------



## AlexK (Jul 25, 2009)

E92Submarine said:


> Absolutely not. I'd imagine car companies will look more into systems that are modular and can be upgraded during their lifetime.


Yes, and MB/Becker are already there:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/04/harman-mercedes-map-pilot-modular-built-in-nav-system-becomes-re/


----------



## AndrewZ (Feb 1, 2006)

Moved to GM


----------



## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

They need to allow for more integration. Give me an in dash display that works with my droid for phone, navigation, web, text, email, etc...basically a video cable hookup from my smartphone to my car and I will buy it



Sent from my DROID2 using Bimmer App


----------



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

captainaudio said:


> Exactly,
> 
> The car companies need to standardize on a user interface and output device (screen) so that the systems can be upgraded but are still integrated into the car.
> 
> CA


Agreed. There's no reason in 2011 that a navi system should costs thousands in a car or that its software/maps/interface can't be updated easily. I'm not an Android fan but good heavens, it's not like it's tough finding people to program for that OS.


----------



## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

Not a chance. People out there (like me) will pay extra for an in-dash navigation for a few reasons:
- In dash units don't lose signal in tunnels, cities, etc. 
- I appreciate the screen for various other car functions 
- in dash units "dress up" the interior
- in dash navigation is a big selling point on the used market 


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## 1985mb (Apr 2, 2008)

RaceBlood said:


> According the debates on many levels within the car industry, with smartphones and cheaper options for navigation, car makers are rethinking where to put the money/value for customers.
> 
> The new Audi A4 is a prime example, its not standard, A NEW trend?


I must have missed the part where standardizing navs was a trend. So no, nav as a standalone $ option is not a new trend, it's the way the auto industry has always been.


----------



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

02BMW530 said:


> Not a chance. People out there (like me) will pay extra for an in-dash navigation for a few reasons:
> - In dash units don't lose signal in tunnels, cities, etc.
> - I appreciate the screen for various other car functions
> - in dash units "dress up" the interior
> ...


 On a 2009 BMW 3 series, according to Edmunds, Navi adds about $1150 on a private party sale. So for something that rang up as 2k, it's lost 43% of its value. Selling point?


----------



## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

blueguydotcom said:


> On a 2009 BMW 3 series, according to Edmunds, Navi adds about $1150 on a private party sale. So for something that rang up as 2k, it's lost 43% of its value. Selling point?


Correct. If someone is "on the fence" about a car, a navigation system may be what "puts them over."

If you're selling two identical cars, one with nav and one without, the nav unit would likely sell faster. Even if I lose 50%+ retail value, a bird in my hand is worth two in a bush. Or more appropriately, $9,400 in my hand ($10k - $600 value lost) is better then holding out for $10k.

And that's only for a new car purchase. I bought a 2002 530i with widescreen nav from a third owner. He, like myself, didn't/won't lose money on the nav since neither of us ordered it new.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

Don't know about "the debates on many levels within the car industry," but I can tell you within BMW there is no debate.

Navigation will in fact become standard in BMWs, in a sense. Basically all cars will be equipped with the screen/hardware/software, and adding navigation will simply come down to purchasing an activation code, much like satellite radio today.

This approach is more modular, more scalable, reduces production complexity and increases profitabiltiy.


----------



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

02BMW530 said:


> Correct. If someone is "on the fence" about a car, a navigation system may be what "puts them over."
> 
> If you're selling two identical cars, one with nav and one without, the nav unit would likely sell faster. Even if I lose 50%+ retail value, a bird in my hand is worth two in a bush. Or more appropriately, $9,400 in my hand ($10k - $600 value lost) is better then holding out for $10k.
> 
> ...


Can you even get updated streets on a navi that old?


----------



## 1985mb (Apr 2, 2008)

darbyogill said:


> Don't know about "the debates on many levels within the car industry," but I can tell you within BMW there is no debate.
> 
> Navigation will in fact become standard in BMWs, in a sense. Basically all cars will be equipped with the screen/hardware/software, and adding navigation will simply come down to purchasing an activation code, much like satellite radio today.
> 
> This approach is more modular, more scalable, reduces production complexity and increases profitabiltiy.


That is not "standard, in a sense" at all from a consumers' POV. As long as you are paying $$$ above base price, it is not standard. It is an option. Just like sat-radio.

IMO Navs will remain options for the foreseeable future. Anyone expecting Nav to be standard on, say, an F30 will be sorely disappointed.


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

1985mb said:


> That is not "standard, in a sense" at all from a consumers' POV.


Oh, sorry... I had no idea that the consumers' POV mattered at all :rofl:


----------



## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

blueguydotcom said:


> Can you even get updated streets on a navi that old?


I think the last updates on CD format were 2008. I imagine it's possible to switch to a DVD drive for a nominal fee. I've never had real issues with my 08 discs though. Sometimes, it'll say "bear left" to jump on a state route when the area has been redone and is now a right-hand exit or something, but looking at the upcoming exit's name will let you compare it to the signs. If not, just slide through 5 lanes. 

Seriously, though, I've never had a real issue.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

cwinter said:


> Of the top of my head I cannot think of a single vehicle where navigation comes standard.
> .


Our Fiat Punto rental in Germany last year had standard nav - it was text based, no map. I hadn't a clue how to use it, just saw the text message saying "please input destination", but after I got back to the US, I got a letter from e-sixt that I broke the nav on the Punto, and wanting an explanation.

I was like "you've got to be shi*ting me, how does one break a built-in text-based nav?"


----------



## conix67 (Mar 31, 2011)

I think it's quite the opposite. With better smartphone integration, in-dash nav is becoming even more useful than before, as an "infotainment" console. BMW's in-dash nav now supports Iphone apps and internet browsing.

Besides, in-dash navigation is the only system you are legally allowed to use while driving here in Toronto.


----------



## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

FWIW, I have an 08 M3 with Nav and a 10 135 without. As long as I am fortunate to be able to afford to, I will always get nav going forward. It is very difficult to do anything with the 135 system while sitting still forget about trying to do/read anything while driving. It is actually kind of dangerous. Simple things like ipod controls are just hard as hell to do.


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

02BMW530 said:


> Sometimes, it'll say "bear left"


But does it say "beaver, right"?


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

RaceBlood said:


> A NEW trend?


??? Was NAV ever standard on an A4 or 3 series?

So what is new?

MINI Mission control. ('not saying its a good trend)

BMW connectedddrive

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/connecteddrive/overview.html

Nissan Leaf has NAV as Standard

Renault offers Carminat TomTom as a £450 option on many models, including the new Kangoo Z.E. Not cheap but less than half of what Nav costs on a BMW or MINI.

http://www.renault-ze.com/en-gb/gam...e.-five-seater/gallery-60380.html&child=60380


----------



## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> But does it say "beaver, right"?


Only to confirm what I'm searching for... 

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

My 2004 e46 has an in-dash nav, and I wouldn't buy another one unless its easily upgradeable. New portable units do almost everything better, and include features my old in-dash unit doesn't. 

A upgraded map DVD (that costs them under a $1 to make) costs me far than a new portable unit. That's obscene. Now, according to the Navteq website (just checked), I need to go to a stealership to get this DVD. I'm sure that lowered the price.


----------



## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

cwsqbm said:


> My 2004 e46 has an in-dash nav, and I wouldn't buy another one unless its easily upgradeable. New portable units do almost everything better, and include features my old in-dash unit doesn't.
> 
> A upgraded map DVD (that costs them under a $1 to make) costs me far than a new portable unit. That's obscene. Now, according to the Navteq website (just checked), I need to go to a stealership to get this DVD. I'm sure that lowered the price.


That is seven plus years old though... I think the systems are much different now; not really a fair comparison. However, you are right that everyone still gets obscenely hammered on DVD upgrades.


----------



## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

Justin T said:


> That is seven plus years old though... I think the systems are much different now; not really a fair comparison. However, you are right that everyone still gets obscenely hammered on DVD upgrades.


And seven years from now, I expect those systems to be vastly different from what's being sold today in new cars. That's the point - things change. 7 year old isn't old for a car - my car about 42,000 miles on it.

Add in the fact that mine system isn't working well (its in storage right now, but come spring I want to fix it) and a GPS receiver costs almost $500 at a discounted place. That's just the receiver, not the head unit, or the antenna, or ....


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

cwsqbm said:


> Add in the fact that mine system isn't working well (its in storage right now, but come spring I want to fix it) and a GPS receiver costs almost $500 at a discounted place. That's just the receiver, not the head unit, or the antenna, or ....


In the past a good vehicle integrated GPS worked better than a hand held unit. The integrated units have accelerometers and compasses that weren't found in hand held NAVs. A roof mounted antenna is still a plus although improved receivers have negated much of that advantage.

Part of the problem is the design cycle. The electronics in an e46 are from the late '90s. 
BMW and many manufactures are far too greedy on parts prices. Maybe they have to be in the US were margins on new cars are low.

We've never ordered NAV on any of our BMWs because of the price. UK prices are worse. NAV on a MINI is £1,480 or %10 of the price of the entire car. That is _insane._

BMW also makes it just about impossible to order NAV ala-cart. In the UK by itself NAV is more expensive than one of packages. On a 3er, a package containing professional NAV is £1,900 and NAV ala-cart is £2005. Either way, you get switched to iDrive. Let me off the bus to crazytown. I'll stop and get a TomTom for £100.

BMW should follow Renault and offer an integrated TomTom for £450. In the 5 and 7 maybe they could offer an integrated iPad for £1000 ???


----------

