# European Delivery Mentality



## Eurocar (Dec 8, 2005)

I would be most interested in everyone's perceptions of why BMW European Delivery sales are only about 1% of total. (The same question would apply to Mercedes which, I believe, is about the same as BMW and Volvo which is ~2%). Even the 1-2% seems to overstate buyer participation since around 1/3 of ED buyers are repeaters (see "DRIVING: Making European Delivery an Annual Event", NYT 10/1/2004).

So what distinqishes ED buyers from non-ED buyers. Why do some people who drive BMW's, M-B's, Volvo's buy (sometimes repeatedly) through ED and while others with similar demographics don't/won't? 

Put another way - if we were responsible for marketing at BMW, M-B, Volvo (I'm not) what would we do to double ED sales? I realize that bigger discounts and travel incentives would make a difference but is money the main issue? (Volvo has bigger discounts and incentives and still only gets 2%.)

P.S. I intentionally omitted Saab and Porsche from my question. I think I can figure it out for them.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I think the main issue is that people want their cars NOW. They don't really want to order them fom the factory, much less order them, fly over and then wait another month to pick them up. That's the most basic, universal reason I can think of. ASide from that, european delivery programs still aren't really widely promoted or advertised, and many people think there's a "catch" or are simply wary of driving in Europe (I bet many customers have never left the US).


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

robg said:


> (I bet many customers have never left the US).


Judging by some of the questions we see, undoubtedly so.


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## 530iii (May 6, 2004)

*ED for life...*

Those of us that do ED are savvy shoppers to say the least.

Think of it as a "secret sale". Most people who i tell about ED are oblivious to the notion.

Some go as far as saying that i made it up, and behind my back say it's not worth the savings because of the euro trip. Such haters.................................:doh:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Eurocar said:


> I would be most interested in everyone's perceptions of why BMW European Delivery sales are only about 1% of total. (The same question would apply to Mercedes which, I believe, is about the same as BMW and Volvo which is ~2%). Even the 1-2% seems to overstate buyer participation since around 1/3 of ED buyers are repeaters (see "DRIVING: Making European Delivery an Annual Event", NYT 10/1/2004).
> 
> So what distinqishes ED buyers from non-ED buyers. Why do some people who drive BMW's, M-B's, Volvo's buy (sometimes repeatedly) through ED and while others with similar demographics don't/won't?
> 
> Put another way - if we were responsible for marketing at BMW, M-B, Volvo (I'm not) what would we do to double ED sales? I realize that bigger discounts and travel incentives would make a difference but is money the main issue? (Volvo has bigger discounts and incentives and still only gets 2%.)


Good question. I think that most BMW buyers haven't even heard of the program, dealers don't necessarily offer it up front, and so on.

If you don't stumble upon it, you won't know it exists.

Having just finished one article on the subject and in progress on the second, I would say you should first look back to the program's origins. In part, awareness of foreign cars started in the 1950s when U.S. soldiers shipped foreign cars back to the states. That was right before the dawn of the jet age. Until the jet age, most people had never been on a plane, let alone set foot in a foreign country.

Industry innovators such as Max Hoffman saw this as an opportunity and began offering people the opportunity to acquire a new car during their first big European Vacation, save money on rental, and have a great souvenir afterwards.

Hoffman saw an opportunity to gain mindshare for BMW (he had previously imported Alfa, Porsche, Renault, among others) and introduce the brand. Today, BMW needs no such introduction so the goals are different.


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## Eurocar (Dec 8, 2005)

Jspira said:


> Good question. I think that most BMW buyers haven't even heard of the program, dealers don't necessarily offer it up front, and so on.
> 
> If you don't stumble upon it, you won't know it exists.
> 
> ...


______________________________________________________
Is it safe to assume that BMW et al want significantly higher ED sales?


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## hbarradah (Sep 29, 2005)

I knew about the ED for a while, and I always thought it would be a very cool thing to do. But, when I made the decision to buy my E90 I only had about 6 weeks left in my lease. The other thing is that I have limited annual vacation, so for me to take 2 weeks off it means I have no more days left for the whole year!! Other than that I would have loved to do it. So, it's mainly a lack of organization in my case.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Eurocar said:


> ______________________________________________________
> Is it safe to assume that BMW et al want significantly higher ED sales?


Yes.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

Jspira said:


> Yes.


Is that true of BMW NA and the dealers? I can see AG liking it, but not sure if cutting out the middleman is good for the middleman.

I sense that we've got most of the answers. hbararadah points to an important one--it's hte "now" mentality. Or really the need. I doubt more than 10-20% of people (if 5%) plan their auto purchases more than 3 months in advance, at least specifically. Most people probably get a car when (1) their old one dies/is stolen/is totalled or (2) when their lease is up (so not buy, but you know) or (3) when they get a bunch of money (bonus, inheritance, raise, new job). Those events come up quickly (well, not for a lease, but . . . ). Combine that with the fact that you pay several months before you have the car, and it's kind of a burden. I suspect there are a lot of repeat customers in part because those are people who run their lives so they can have overlapping cars (pay off the loan/pay cash/have extra cars/etc.). So it's a bit of a niche to begin with.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

Eurocar said:


> So what distinqishes ED buyers from non-ED buyers. Why do some people who drive BMW's, M-B's, Volvo's buy (sometimes repeatedly) through ED and while others with similar demographics don't/won't?


Available vacation time perhaps. Also not everyone can either be without a car or pay for two cars for a month or two.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Tanning machine said:


> Is that true of BMW NA and the dealers? I can see AG liking it, but not sure if cutting out the middleman is good for the middleman.


Yes and no.

The salesperson makes his/her commission, the dealer gets another car in for service (they make more revenue in service, even warranty service), and so on.

There's no cutting out the middleman here. The dealer is still the middleman.

BMW NA likes the program for the prestige of being able to say "drive your car on the Autobahn." As I wrote in one of my articles on the subject (not yet published), the Autobahn has a lure similar to the Loreley to some.


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## bigudibmw (Oct 26, 2005)

Personally, I did not even know about ED until stumbling upon it on this message board. It was only after extensive research, and continued conversations with people on this board that I realized all the specifics and nuances with doing ED and basically how great it is. Another thing of imporatance besides time and vacation constraints is that most people do not understand the concept. I cannot tell you the number of times I had to explain to people that yes the car is the same as a US car, that no modifications need to be done, that I don't have to pay for shipping, that I don't have to pay any import taxes, etc. It's almost as if they refuse to acknowledge the simplicity of the program.

In terms of marketing, it is basically non-existent. Dealers do not tell you about it, and most are clueless as to the whole process. The internet seems to be the most viable source for discovering the ED program. Being 25, I grew up using the internet and was consequently able to find the information. People 40 and up are highly unlikely to discover forums such as bimmerfest, especially when compared to the younger generations. Given that most people that buy BMWs are older, there exists that unfortunate correlation.


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## kobechrome (Dec 10, 2005)

I admittedly never even heard of it until I joined bimmerfest and I used to have an 01 325i so that tells you something about their marketing...

I ordered my car but just didn't have the vacation to go to Europe to pick it up. Plus I admit I have the "now" mentality. I was willing to wait 6 weeks to have my car for good on US soil... but the ED process from beginning to end would've taken 5-6 months. I'm not that patient


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## iversonm (Nov 15, 2004)

I also wouldn't discount the fact that many dealers refuse to negotiate off of ED MSRP. In most cases, that adds up to the dealer keeping half of the savings. If it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't have realized that there are ED dealers and non-ED dealers.

The savings are definitely an incentive.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

slubu said:


> In terms of marketing, it is basically non-existent. Dealers do not tell you about it, and most are clueless as to the whole process. The internet seems to be the most viable source for discovering the ED program. Being 25, I grew up using the internet and was consequently able to find the information. People 40 and up are highly unlikely to discover forums such as bimmerfest, especially when compared to the younger generations. Given that most people that buy BMWs are older, there exists that unfortunate correlation.


Why does everyone in their twenties assume that anyone 40 or older doesn't know how to use the internet. Some of us were using internet forums while you were still in elementry school.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

adgrant said:


> Why does everyone in their twenties assume that anyone 40 or older doesn't know how to use the internet. Some of us were using internet forums while you were still in elementry school.


I think the assumption is a lower percentage are internet-savvy, not that none are.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

Tanning machine said:


> I think the assumption is a lower percentage are internet-savvy, not that none are.


Well the words were "highly unlikely to discover forums such as bimmerfest". If this were true, there wouldn't be much discussion about the more expensive models on this forum. I doubt that many 6 & 7 series owners are much under 40.


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## Uncle Fester (Feb 18, 2005)

slubu said:


> People 40 and up are highly unlikely to discover forums such as bimmerfest, especially when compared to the younger generations.


I smell a Poll coming on - I bet the old timers would win...


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

For most BMW buyers, they are just leasing/buying another car.

Goes something like this.

i.e. "Hey honey, we leased Mercedes last time, what do you want to get his time. I don't know dear, maybe a BMW, I saw a pretty blue one."

Most folks don't have the time or inclination to go overseas to pick up a car and bring it back. Nothing bad against these folks, it is just they have other things they would rather be doing. If you want to save a few bucks, go overseas and get a car. 

However, I would suspect a corporate exec or attorney/doctor, etc. would lose thousands of dollars to take time off to get a frickin car. Just depends on your priorities and what is important to you. :dunno:


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## Eurocar (Dec 8, 2005)

adgrant said:


> Well the words were "highly unlikely to discover forums such as bimmerfest". If this were true, there wouldn't be much discussion about the more expensive models on this forum. I doubt that many 6 & 7 series owners are much under 40.


_________________________________________________________________
The age discussion brings up another question.

Do you think there are different motivations for doing ED's based on age/income/cost of car recognizing that they don't necessarily, but frequently do, go together?

Are 325i buyers motivated to do ED's in significantly different ways than 750 buyers?
__
To refer back to my initial message ". . . if we were responsible for marketing at BMW, M-B, Volvo (I'm not) what would we do to double ED sales? I realize that bigger discounts and travel incentives would make a difference but is money the main issue? (Volvo has bigger discounts and incentives and still only gets 2%.)"

I'm hearing 
- more/better marketing directed to the consumer
- something to get dealers more on board and supportive
- shorten the time between order and redelivery (How about experiences with the inventory pool?)
- more flexibility with trade ins and leases so you're not left riding the bus or walking

What else? Do you see/have issues with travel? What if BMW scheduled "put your suitcase outside the door at 7AM and the bus leaves at 8:30AM" tours? Does that bring in a whole new crowd?


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## bigudibmw (Oct 26, 2005)

adgrant said:


> Why does everyone in their twenties assume that anyone 40 or older doesn't know how to use the internet. Some of us were using internet forums while you were still in elementry school.


"Highly unlikely" != entirely excluded. My father is 54 and knows more about computer than I will ever know. However, a greater % of younger people are familiar with the internet and its use than compared to older people. That was my only point, nothing more.


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

Eurocar said:


> _________________________________________________________________
> The age discussion brings up another question. Do you think there are different motivations for doing ED's based on age/income/cost of car recognizing that they don't necessarily, but frequently do, go together?


Without question. I would also add TIME to the equation. What is your time worth?

I could do ED anytime, but have other things I would rather be doing.

It is just not that big a deal to me, although it sounds like something fun to do one time.

If I did do it, it would be to pick up a 911, not a bimmer. :thumbup:

I would much rather be in the Carribean on a saiboat than over seas picking up cars to save a few bucks.


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## BayAreaBMWFan (Aug 8, 2004)

Since the ED cars are not out of their allocation, the dealers do not get the back end incentive they do for selling their allocation. And unless you are selling at MSRP, the back end incentive will be more than what you pay over invoice. Of course you have to be eligible for the back-end incentive by meeting the different standards set out by BMW, but assuming that dealer is doing a good job, they will get it.

Hence ED is not as profitable for dealers and it also requires more paperwork and effort from the dealer in comparison to a sale off the lot or an ordered car. Plus it takes much longer for the deal to close and hence the saleperston to get their commission.

Beyond building customer loyalty, and catering to repeat customers, there is little for the dealer to do ED. Of course a dealer who continues to outsell their allocation will like to do more ED.

ED is a niche product and should continue to do so. The cost savings really make sense in the 5/6/7 series or a loaded 330. In other cases, the cost of travel might not make ED worth it.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

chuck92103 said:


> I would much rather be in the Carribean on a saiboat than over seas picking up cars to save a few bucks.


Well I think the point is to combine picking up the car with a European road trip. If you don't want to drive around Europe, its probably not worth the hassle.


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## bigudibmw (Oct 26, 2005)

Also of note, on the age issue, myself being 25 the cost savings of a little over 3k go a long way for me. It allowed me to add some options I could otherwise not afford without ED.


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## jackie (May 11, 2005)

Yes, there are different motivations, based on a jillion different factors. I can speak only for myself:

1. Buying a new car is a really big deal for me. It takes me months to consider all the options and think and plan. Therefore, having to wait for an ED car to be built, and then later wait for it to arrive, is no problem for me.

2. I did ED because I knew it would be a fun way to combine getting a new car with taking a vacation. The money was not a consideration. It was just an added bonus that the savings paid for our plane tickets.

3. And by the way, I'm 57 and am very internet savvy. My techie husband and teenage son keep me on my toes.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

slubu said:


> "Highly unlikely" != entirely excluded. My father is 54 and knows more about computer than I will ever know. However, a greater % of younger people are familiar with the internet and its use than compared to older people. That was my only point, nothing more.


My father is 70 and plays chess over the internet. OTOH he does have dialup. I don't know anyone in their forties who does not use the internet regularly.

A couple of stats from the Pew Internet & American Life Project for you (result of a google search):

58% of Americans age 50-64 use the internet and 75% of 30-49 year-olds do. The numbers for 18-29 year-olds are 77% (not a lot more than the 30-49 set). The major determine factors for internet use appear to be wealth and education (almost half of all internet users make more than $50,000 only 18% make less than $30,000). I suspect that the majority of BMW owner are wealthy enough and educated enough to be regular internet users. They may not be "enthusiastic" enough to frequent this site though.


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## ploutos (Jun 23, 2005)

jackie said:


> 3. And by the way, I'm 57 and am very internet savvy. My techie husband and teenage son keep me on my toes.


After all you are from San Jose. 

Hey I don't mean non bay area folks are not internet savvy..


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## Asteroid (Aug 17, 2005)

adgrant said:


> Well I think the point is to combine picking up the car with a European road trip. If you don't want to drive around Europe, its probably not worth the hassle.


:stupid: To me, we were going to Europe anyway and needed a car so it was an easy decision.

The local Volvo dealer ran an ad in the paper for euro delivery and I think one guy regularly sold ~50 a year. Never seen ED ads for MB or BMW.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I remember going E.D. shopping at MB and BMW with my parents when I was in high school. 

Of course, they (as am I) fall into a self selecting category of people who either quasi reside there or travel to Central Europe an awful lot.

So I was e.d. aware from a very young age.

Today the pool of people who do european Delivery is more divese. Some do it just to save money, some do it for the thrill of driving on the Autobahn, others do it to save long term rental car fees. More than just a few people doing it have never been outside of the states prior to this so it is good in terms of getting people to travel to foreign lands.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

Eurocar said:


> _________________________________________________________________
> To refer back to my initial message ". . . if we were responsible for marketing at BMW, M-B, Volvo (I'm not) what would we do to double ED sales? I realize that bigger discounts and travel incentives would make a difference but is money the main issue? (Volvo has bigger discounts and incentives and still only gets 2%.)"
> 
> I'm hearing
> ...


I knew one guy who twice pick up his Volvo in Europe. Volvo pay for his and his wife airplane tickets, one night hotel and I believe - free lunch (or dinner) after factory tour. ( I maybe wrong on last one). 2-for-1 Lufthansa deal is a jock. You can find your self better deal if you know how to turn internet to your friend. 
Make a good deal on airplane tickets (this is most expensive expense, after car) and provide at list one night hotel in Munich.


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## Surdy (Nov 12, 2005)

To me it was the difference between buying a 645i locally or ED a 650i. Since I was travelling overseas anyway, it was (is) just going to be a another pitstop for me.


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## Brian2468 (Aug 7, 2005)

I just completed my first ED (thanks to all the info from this forum!) and wouldn't consider getting a car any other way again!!

What nobody has mentioned here is the "cool" factor of the whole thing. I'm a car nut, and the experience of picking up the car in Munich, spending 2 hours with Bernhard going over the car and talking about cars/BMW/life in Germany/etc was a blast. I loved driving my car where it was designed and built (at 140mph !!!!!!), and taking in the whole culture of the place. I also love to travel. I've travelled all over the world and my ED trip with my family is definitely one of if not the best vacation I've ever had. Also much better to drive around Europe in a new bimmer instead of a rental Astra or Mondeo!

And....best part is the GREAT souvenir I have. Every time I get in the car, I remember all the places we went, the food, WINE, BEER, and all the interesting people we met. For BMW, I think it's very good marketing. I've had lots of cars - some pretty nice and some not so nice - but I definitely feel a special bond with this one even though it's my first bimmer.

The fact that I saved some money on the car is just icing on the cake. But I would do it all over again even if there were no financial benefit.


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## jackie (May 11, 2005)

Brian:

Nicely stated. I agree with it all.


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## westwest888 (Jun 12, 2005)

BayAreaBMWFan said:


> The cost savings really make sense in the 5/6/7 series or a loaded 330. In other cases, the cost of travel might not make ED worth it.


I disagree and side with Slubu. The savings off MSRP, the added negotiation power I had because it wasn't out of dealer allocation, and being able to lock in a price on a September car before the July price increase made a *huge* difference.

Additionally I'm 22 and I'm starting my life after school which is expensive (furniture, housewares, etc.) Making a wise car purchase was a big priority; a $43k car wasn't prudent. So I cut the bullsh*t and walked out for $32k and change. I did Europe pretty cheaply by going with a friend, staying with family for a few nights, and drinking beer in lieu of purchasing costly meals. :bigpimp:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

westwest888 said:


> I disagree and side with Slubu. The savings off MSRP, the added negotiation power I had because it wasn't out of dealer allocation, and being able to lock in a price on a September car before the July price increase made a *huge* difference.
> 
> Additionally I'm 22 and I'm starting my life after school which is expensive (furniture, housewares, etc.) Making a wise car purchase was a big priority; a $43k car wasn't prudent. So I cut the bullsh*t and walked out for $32k and change. I did Europe pretty cheaply by going with a friend, staying with family for a few nights, and drinking beer in lieu of purchasing costly meals.


No one´s taking sides, this is just a discussion but I like the concept of drinking Bier instead of meals. Slightly off topic, the reason lenten Bier is stronger is because the monks made it stronger to compensate for whatever they might give up during lent (obviously not Bier) in their diet.


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

Jspira said:


> Slightly off topic, the reason lenten Bier is stronger is because the monks made it stronger to compensate for whatever they might give up during lent (obviously not Bier) in their diet.


Those monks know how to party... "Hey, Brother Francis, get that lamp shade off your head."


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## Calif65GM (Mar 27, 2005)

I think everyone makes good points. IMO, I think the time, wait and people just not understanding the whole concept reduces the ED volume.

I'd had been considering a CPO car until I read more about ED on here. I had heard of them from Volvo and Mercedes before, but never seriously considered it.

But basically for the price of a 325, I could get a 330 and get a trip out of it, so it was a no-brainer. Also I had a car that was in excellent condition and could handle the waiting time.

Also the lack of marketing about the ED program. For example, you'll only see it buried at the bottom on a car ad for the individual dealership. It's never mentioned in one of those MACO ads that lists all the participating dealers in the area.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Calif65GM said:


> It's never mentioned in one of those MACO ads that lists all the participating dealers in the area.


You don't mean to imply you would like to start paying MACO fee on European Delivery


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## Calif65GM (Mar 27, 2005)

Jspira said:


> You don't mean to imply you would like to start paying MACO fee on European Delivery


No, but since they're running the ad anyway and it doesn't cost extra to mention it in the ad. It was probably a poor example, but basically my point is that it's not really promoted. The buyer has to initiate the deal.


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

Eurocar said:


> ________________
> Although as you say "driving an expensive car in a foreign country where they don't know the language" probably isn't fun for a lot of people.


I didn't say "isn't fun", I said entails risk. For example, I'm sure sky diving is fun, but I for one, don't want to risk it (and even if I did my wife certainly won't let me).


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

I think if ED was convienent, more people would do it. However, it is not convenient and quite a hassle at times. A hassle for everyone involved.

We tend to ignore how much effort and planning goes into an ED trip.

ED is a wonderful option for those who take part, but let's not forget about what it takes to pull it off. It is for this reason more folks do not do it.

Hell, think of all the folks who just walk into a dealer off the street to buy a car with no knowledge of MSRP, invoice, options, etc. These are the folks that are on the other end of the ED spectrum. *I want a car now, where do I sign?* :tsk:


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

robg said:


> Personally, I'm glad that only 1-2% of buyers do it. If more people did it, my guess is that BMW might lessen or eliminate the discount and/or dealers would be less willing to negotiate on ED cars (since they aren't eligible for holdback incentives and if too many people start doing it, it'll cut into the dealer's ability to sell their regular allocation).


I agree. Let's keep it for us.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> Hell, think of all the folks who just walk into a dealer off the street to buy a car with no knowledge of MSRP, invoice, options, etc. These are the folks that are on the other end of the ED spectrum. *I want a car now, where do I sign?* :tsk:


I agree, the level of obsessiveness (err... "knowledge") displayed by most people here is definitely the exception rather than the rule. We probably represent less than 1% of buyers.


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

I'll go along with that. Many a dead horse is beaten here daily.


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

MARCUS330i said:


> I'll go along with that. Many a dead horse is beaten here daily.


:rofl:


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

MARCUS330i said:


> I'll go along with that. Many a dead horse is beaten here daily.


Yeah, but most of the horses were SOBs when they were alive and deserve the extra beating.


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

chuck92103 said:


> I think if ED was convienent, more people would do it. However, it is not convenient and quite a hassle at times. A hassle for everyone involved.
> 
> We tend to ignore how much effort and planning goes into an ED trip.
> 
> ...


What's the hassle? You get on a plane (Unless it's United), drink beer, get off a plane in Munich, drink beer, pick up the car, drink beer, drive around a wonderful part of the world for a week drinking beer, drop off the car and get on a plane (Unless it's United) drink beer and go home. Then you drink beer for 6 weeks or so waiting for it to arrive. Sounds pretty easy to me.


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## bigudibmw (Oct 26, 2005)

Just to mention, if there was a single 6sp e90 in all of southern california I would not have had to order a car, and consequently end up finding out about ED. I strongly agree with the statement that we make up the exception as to knowledge about the process and cars. I still remember I had to tell the salesperson what Comfort Access is...


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

There is a group of (relatively young) buyers out there that are shopping in the entry luxury segment on a budget. That budget usually means they have to restrict themselves these days to a Lexus, an Acura or an Infinity. BMW is out of the question, being at least $3-4k more expensive.

ED takes away some of that sting - and BMW becomes a possibility all of a sudden. From what I have noticed, it's a mental barrier that they need to pass, because ultimately they will save very little or no money at all, after the Euro trip costs are weighed in.

I've steered 2 coworkers in this situation towards ED (and BTW neither had any idea of its existence prior to my mentioning it). Finally only one of them went through, I think he's due for a March delivery. :thumbup: I'm sure he'll have a blast.

I'm in a slightly different category: a car nut and a European by birth, which makes it a very easy choice for me. I always end up flying at least every 2 years to Europe, car or no car... The first time I ever considered it seriously was when I read in the Roundel about the M Tour of 2001 (or was it 2002?).

adc
03 330 ZHP


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

adc said:


> There is a group of (relatively young) buyers out there that are shopping in the entry luxury segment on a budget. That budget usually means they have to restrict themselves these days to a Lexus, an Acura or an Infinity. BMW is out of the question, being at least $3-4k more expensive.
> 
> ED takes away some of that sting - and BMW becomes a possibility all of a sudden. From what I have noticed, it's a mental barrier that they need to pass, because ultimately they will save very little or no money at all, after the Euro trip costs are weighed in.
> 
> ...


They will make some gains due to free maintenance for the first 4 years. IN an Acura or Lexus you will dump $2-3k minimum in 4 years.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

chuck92103 said:


> They will make some gains due to free maintenance for the first 4 years. IN an Acura or Lexus you will dump $2-3k minimum in 4 years.


I think Lexus offers the 4 year free maintenance too... One of the coworkers ended up with a 250 and told me he had the maintenance. :dunno:

But even without that, the type of buyer who heads toward Lexus or Acura will not go to the dealer to have the car religiously maintained. They will go in for the scheduled 15k oil change, then the next one, etc. Otherwise they'll tend to drive the wheels off the car, because it's Japanese and therefore very reliable.

adc
03 330 ZHP


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

adc said:


> I think Lexus offers the 4 year free maintenance too... One of the coworkers ended up with a 250 and told me he had the maintenance. :dunno:
> 
> But even without that, the type of buyer who heads toward Lexus or Acura will not go to the dealer to have the car religiously maintained. They will go in for the scheduled 15k oil change, then the next one, etc. Otherwise they'll tend to drive the wheels off the car, because it's Japanese and therefore very reliable.
> 
> ...


Well if they do, Lexus does a great job hiding the fact they have free maintenance.

I think your friend might have bought a service plan. Nothing at Lexus is free. You would think they would advertise this on TV/RADIO/Web if it were true.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> Well if they do, Lexus does a great job hiding the fact they have free maintenance.
> 
> I think your friend might have bought a service plan. Nothing at Lexus is free. You would think they would advertise this on TV/RADIO/Web if it were true.


RIght, i'm pretty sure its not free at Lexus. Its also possible that his dealer offers free oil changes or something.


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## richyz (Jul 9, 2005)

It's due to a combination of ignorance and many Americans not being comfortable with international travel - wonder what % of Americans even have a passport.

Some of the reasons people have:

I don't speak the language over there

It would be scary to drive in another country

I'd have pay shipping/customs, etc. on the car

What if I have an accident - will there be insurance?

It's a car meant for Germany - what if there are problems getting it approved for the 
US?

And then even for people who become educated about the process there are negative reactions like what I got from my father in-law (who used to drive a Mercedes - but never did an ED). I finally explained to him that the difference between us, was that while to him flying over to Germany to pick up a new car would be an imposition - to me it was an adventure.


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

richyz said:


> And then even for people who become educated about the process there are negative reactions like what I got from my father in-law (who used to drive a Mercedes - but never did an ED). I finally explained to him that the difference between us, was that while to him flying over to Germany to pick up a new car would be an imposition - to me it was an adventure.


Too bad there isn't a "Lemon Law" for in-laws...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

richyz said:


> It's due to a combination of ignorance and many Americans not being comfortable with international travel - wonder what % of Americans even have a passport.
> 
> .


22%


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

richyz said:


> Some of the reasons people have:
> 
> I don't speak the language over there


In what´s left of my non existent spare time at this point, I´ll teach the Bimmerfest German class. OK, everyone, no. 2 pencils out please... 

P.S. I did get my LM-22 runflat snows mounted onto the (Austrian made) Styling 159 wheels. Going over tomorrow to swap tires. I´ll be compliant for all German laws on winter tires henceforth.


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## iversonm (Nov 15, 2004)

Jspira said:


> In what´s left of my non existent spare time at this point, I´ll teach the Bimmerfest German class. OK, everyone, no. 2 pencils out please...
> 
> P.S. I did get my LM-22 runflat snows mounted onto the (Austrian made) Styling 159 wheels. Going over tomorrow to swap tires. I´ll be compliant for all German laws on winter tires henceforth.


ich bin, du bist, ...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

iversonm said:


> ich bin, du bist, ...


er
sie
es...
ist


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## L Seca (Apr 22, 2005)

Jspira said:


> In what´s left of my non existent spare time at this point, I´ll teach the Bimmerfest German class. OK, everyone, no. 2 pencils out please...


Where do I sign up? :thumbup:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

L Seca said:


> Where do I sign up? :thumbup:


Did you do your homework assignment?


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## ff1600 (Dec 27, 2004)

ED is not exactly an incentive if your focus is the M3/5/6. Be nice if they would change that.


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## richyz (Jul 9, 2005)

x3Bruin said:


> But as for my reasons for doing ED:
> 
> 1. We need a new car.
> 2. We like Europe
> ...


Exactly


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## richyz (Jul 9, 2005)

x3Bruin said:


> Too bad there isn't a "Lemon Law" for in-laws...


I'd be way past the time limit anyway.


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## richyz (Jul 9, 2005)

Jspira said:


> In what***180;s left of my non existent spare time at this point, I***180;ll teach the Bimmerfest German class.




Danke, Herr Spira. Please forgive if my punctuation is lacking.


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

Jspira said:


> Did you do your homework assignment?


My dog ate my homework.








</IMG>


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## Gage (Oct 8, 2005)

Uncle Fester said:


> I smell a Poll coming on - I bet the old timers would win...


This age discussion made me smile because the same day I ordered a 530 (from Adrian, bless him), I received my Medicare card in the mail!

Oh well, better late than never...


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## Eurocar (Dec 8, 2005)

Time seems to be the most consistent disadvantage given for ED especially the ~ 12 week order time. As robg said " people want their cars NOW". 

What has been the experience with buying from the inventory pool? I realize that buying that way conflicts with the ability to "get the exact trim, color, options" (shandonguy) but it could cut the leadtime by a couple of months.

Good/bad experiences?


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

Eurocar said:


> Time seems to be the most consistent disadvantage given for ED especially the ~ 12 week order time. As robg said " people want their cars NOW".
> 
> What has been the experience with buying from the inventory pool? I realize that buying that way conflicts with the ability to "get the exact trim, color, options" (shandonguy) but it could cut the leadtime by a couple of months.
> 
> Good/bad experiences?


Whats with all these data points you are collecting? I'm curious where are all this going? Are you writing an article or something, working on your dissertation...? Doing a market survey for a BMW competitor?

This generic line of questions is rather strange.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

x3Bruin said:


> Are you writing an article or something, working on your dissertation...? .


An article? Moment mal (wait a moment) - that is MY department.


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## Eurocar (Dec 8, 2005)

x3Bruin said:


> Whats with all these data points you are collecting? I'm curious where are all this going? Are you writing an article or something, working on your dissertation...? Doing a market survey for a BMW competitor?
> 
> This generic line of questions is rather strange.


__________________________

I've been driving BMW's since 1977 (320i) and have bought through both Volvo and BMW's ED programs including the 330CiC I'm driving now. I'm an ED advocate so frequently have questions from friends about ED. I'm trying to understand them and have better answers to their questions.

As or "data points" I don't have an agenda - one thing sort of logically leads to another based on the responses. If there's an article in my future, I'm not collecting info for it here. (Plus I don't have the 24 working hours/day that Jspira must.)

My convertible is 4 years old in April and I'm considering ED for a replacement. Would like to pick up in mid-March. Looks late for a regular order so I'm thinking about the inventory myself.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

robg said:


> RIght, i'm pretty sure its not free at Lexus. Its also possible that his dealer offers free oil changes or something.


I can confirm it is not. A coworker's wife drives a Lexus and he drives a BMW and was complaining about what he was paying for Lexus service.


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

Eurocar said:


> __________________________
> My convertible is 4 years old in April and I'm considering ED for a replacement. Would like to pick up in mid-March. Looks late for a regular order so I'm thinking about the inventory myself.


Well - if you run down to your dealer now or email one of the dealer sponsors of Bimmerfest, you could probably easily still swing a mid-March delivery.

As The King says,_ "A little less conversation and a little more action, please..." _

Seriously, just do it...you probably will still have a few weeks to cancel before the car is built if you change your mind.


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## x3Bruin (Oct 8, 2005)

adgrant said:


> I can confirm it is not. A coworker's wife drives a Lexus and he drives a BMW and was complaining about what he was paying for Lexus service.


I think individual Lexus dealers provide maintenance with the car...but probably factor into the price.

Its win-win for them, because they lock you in as maintenance customer.


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

shandonguy said:


> My reasons were:
> 
> - Cost savings
> - Ability to get the exact trim, color, options
> ...


Ditto. Though Item 1 is the critical factor. My spin:

(1) Cost savings of 7%+ (for me roughly $2.5-3K) on new vehicle, even more when you factor in sales tax on the lower price.

(2) Customized BMW (I was told my package was pretty unusual). Yes, you can order a car for US delivery, but you may find it more difficult to negotiate a great price, as opposed to taking a car that is already on the dealer's lot.

(3) Cost savings of $500+ on two week Euro car rental. This is based on what it would cost me to rent a cheapo compact, as opposed to a BMW which is probably 10 categories higher and would run $500+ per week. Not to mention time saved by driving as opposed to schlepping around on trains and public transit.

(4) Good excuse to visit Europe. In fact, it is a critical part of my vacation plans!

Now if (a) you only have 2 weeks vacation (and can't or don't want to spend some of it in Europe) (b) you consider the airfare to be an additional "cost" or (c) don't want or can't afford to pre-order and pre-pay for a car that you won't drive at home for 2 months, then you probably shouldn't be doing ED.

But for everyone else, it's a no brainer. Even attorneys and doctors who bill by the hour go on european vacations.

I do have to question the wisdom of the student who posted earlier. At your age you would be well advised buy a cheap car and begin saving massively for retirement - in a few years you will be able to buy the first of many BMWs which you will enjoy when you retire decades before your contemporaries who blew their coin on cars.


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## ck3 (Jul 16, 2005)

Great thread and a good summary of why and why not ED! I liked the factory tour, will always value the entire experience of active involvement in the research/specification/ordering/tracking/delivery/autobahn/waiting/redelivery and finally enjoying my dream car for the first time, and especially appreciated the fact that I was able to enjoy it all with my son who appreciates good driving machines as much as I do.

Don't mean to generalize but somehow men seem to get just as emotional about their favorite car as women get all emotional about their dream house. I know there are many exceptions to this! And then there are those who think of cars as just a means of transportation and a house as just a roof over their head! Nothing wrong with any of these... besides the diversity makes it all interesting!


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

Jspira said:


> 22%


Sorry, but I believe it's only 8%


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

john lance said:


> Sorry, but I believe it's only 8%


The numbers I've seen are all over the place but I've seen 20-22% more consistently than others

Where did you come up with 8%?

A few quick sources (and there are hundreds of thousands): http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/2145 
http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/227861

If you want, I can do a search in Factiva later and which has authoritative sources.


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## schley (May 26, 2005)

The one mystery to everyone I believe is why do they offer the discount in the first place? What incentive does BMW have to offer this for ED. I have read anything from, builds in brand loyalty, to saving money on exporting a used vehicle. 

Does anyone really know the economics of why it is advantageous for BMW to offer such a program, before we can decipher wether it is good business to grow it?

Don't get me wrong I loved my ED and look forward to my next one, but the factual info on why BMW has this program is a mystery, at least to me. :dunno:


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## kotter (Jun 13, 2006)

*i have some questions*



Eurocar said:


> I would be most interested in everyone's perceptions of why BMW European Delivery sales are only about 1% of total. (The same question would apply to Mercedes which, I believe, is about the same as BMW and Volvo which is ~2%). Even the 1-2% seems to overstate buyer participation since around 1/3 of ED buyers are repeaters (see "DRIVING: Making European Delivery an Annual Event", NYT 10/1/2004).
> 
> So what distinqishes ED buyers from non-ED buyers. Why do some people who drive BMW's, M-B's, Volvo's buy (sometimes repeatedly) through ED and while others with similar demographics don't/won't?
> 
> ...


how do you order a car from ed

how about warrty and maintenance


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## Asteroid (Aug 17, 2005)

kotter said:


> how do you order a car from ed
> 
> how about warrty and maintenance


For basic information go to bmwusa.com (http://www.bmwusa.com/bmwexperience/europeandelivery/) but there is a wealth of information in this forum once you know what you're looking for. I think that there is a sticky for an article at the top of this forum.


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

kotter said:


> how do you order a car from ed
> 
> how about warrty and maintenance


Your local dealer handles everything.
You get a US spec car with full warranty just like if you bought it off a dealer lot in the USA.
BMW pays shipping/import of your car.

You just save 8-15%.


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## ddtan (Apr 28, 2006)

kotter said:


> how do you order a car from ed
> 
> how about warrty and maintenance


After you have looked at the links posted above, try this one:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146616


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## kotter (Jun 13, 2006)

also i get the price like 1000 ---15000 over ed invoice or not 

i need to go to there to get a car or not beacuse i saw many people took picture in there 

i don't know the range 

would you tell me more 
thanks


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## kotter (Jun 13, 2006)

1000-1500 i made a mistake


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Keep reading, kotter...you are asking very basic questions. Go to a dealer and find who the ED specialist is...hopefully they have one...negotiate your deal xxx over invoice (your numbers are fine and are the general range). Your dealer should be able to answer your questions but, yes, whoever's name is on the contract signed at the dealership, that person must go pick the car up in person in Munich.


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