# 2011 mpg laws. what will happen to ferrari, lambo, porsche?



## DJ_INHALE (Mar 15, 2006)

when they need to average a certain miles per gallon?

will ferrari just join up with Fiat to round out the average?


----------



## adeberti (Sep 23, 2005)

i think there are different tiers for small manufacturers....

but yes ferrari could use fiat, and lambo would fall under VW AG and porsche...could use VW ag....


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

They just pay the fine. Currently it is $5.50 per tenth of a MPG per car. 

2006 CAFE penalties:

DaimlerChrysler, $30.3 million;
BMW of North America, $5.1 million;
Porsche Cars of North America, $4.6 million;
Maserati Automobiles of America, $1.4 million;
Volkswagen of America, $1 million;
Ferrari North America, $0.8 million.


Jaguar and LandRover were combined with Ford. Somehow Ford is able to use Mazda and avoid paying anything.


----------



## DJ_INHALE (Mar 15, 2006)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> They just pay the fine. Currently it is $5.50 per tenth of a MPG per car.
> 
> 2006 CAFE penalties:
> 
> ...


and that fine is passed onto the consumer. yah big government!

I always find it funny when a guy with an f430 drives it 2000 miles a year but and doesnt get great mileage is put on the chopping block while there 10000s of big SUV's, old pick up trucks burning oil stoplight to stoplight and doing 25k a year worth a miles. they arent as bad as a garage queen ferrari?????? makes no sense

Yes I know they have to go to emissions check but most get around it etc.

or the 6000 lb SUV gets a tax credit if used for a business use? lol. total BS


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

DJ_INHALE said:


> .
> 
> or the 6000 lb SUV gets a tax credit if used for a business use? lol. total BS


Over 7,500 and they are exempt from CAFE.

Somehow Ford and GM have never had to pay a single CAFE penalty.


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

DJ_INHALE said:


> and that fine is passed onto the consumer. yah big government!


Maybe. Market does come into play. People do shop price on cars in the $30K-$50K range. Manufacturers may have to eat the penalty to stay competitive.

BMW has brought their fleet MPG up since 2006. I doubt they paid anything for 2008.

Ferrari, Maserati, and VW likely just add the penalty to the retail price of their guzzlers. That's less than a 1% bump.

I wonder if VW Polo and the return of the TDI will be enough to zero out Lamborghini.


----------



## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

DJ_INHALE said:


> when they need to average a certain miles per gallon?
> 
> will ferrari just join up with Fiat to round out the average?


What happens now?

People who want to buy these cars pay extra.

Geez, talking about digging. These are laws that are on the books for 30 years, but, all of a sudden, it is Obama's fault......


----------



## z06bigbird (Aug 25, 2008)

The trade journals indicate that the Japanese found a warehouse full of Geo Metro 3 cylinder engines. They are selling these engines to Maserati and Ferrari for $1.00 each. That will resolve the mpg question. Hopefully, the buyers will not notice the diff in engines. Heck, GM swapped engines among Chevy,Olds, etc years ago.


----------



## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

If you can afford a Ferrari, a Porsche, or a Lambo you think these buyers give a rats a$$ about paying extra on top of the gas guzzler tax come on lets get real!


----------



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Elias said:


> If you can afford a Ferrari, a Porsche, or a Lambo you think these buyers give a rats a$$ about paying extra on top of the gas guzzler tax come on lets get real!


Amen. The story is another chicken little attempt to scare people.

In europe all cars are taxed extra beyond just sales tax. The worse the mileage, the higher the tax. Strangely Europeans have been surviving like this for decades. If the US adopted this model all the construction/repair/delivery/farming folks would rebel and declare that the government is mistreating them because they are buying trucks.

Instead of taxing everyone, we tax the folks who buy ferraris. Honestly, when you're dropping 150k on a car that's all about passion and testosterone an extra 2% seems like chump change.


----------



## 02 330Ci (Jun 9, 2008)

blueguydotcom said:


> Amen. The story is another chicken little attempt to scare people.
> 
> In europe all cars are taxed extra beyond just sales tax. The worse the mileage, the higher the tax. Strangely Europeans have been surviving like this for decades. If the US adopted this model all the construction/repair/delivery/farming folks would rebel and declare that the government is mistreating them because they are buying trucks.
> 
> Instead of taxing everyone, we tax the folks who buy ferraris. Honestly, when you're dropping 150k on a car that's all about passion and testosterone an extra 2% seems like chump change.


While your correct its nothing much to them I am addressing you comment about europe, If we were europe that might be ok but why should we compare ourselves to europe? we rebelled against this sort of behavior over 200 years ago now we should just mindlessly follow there lead?


----------



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

02 330Ci said:


> While your correct its nothing much to them I am addressing you comment about europe, If we were europe that might be ok but why should we compare ourselves to europe? we rebelled against this sort of behavior over 200 years ago now we should just mindlessly follow there lead?


Not following the lead, so much as observing what works well. If something works, it might be wise to consider it. Ever driven in Europe? The toll roads are fantastic in France. Switzerland's roads are great. Austria and Germany are beyond compare. Part of what makes their infrastructure great is that they have the audacity to tax people who use it.

'We" didn't rebel against anything. Wealthy land owners in the colonies rebelled and conscripted the masses to fight so the wealthy could pay less in taxes.


----------



## 02 330Ci (Jun 9, 2008)

blueguydotcom said:


> Not following the lead, so much as observing what works well. If something works, it might be wise to consider it. Ever driven in Europe? T*he toll roads are fantastic in France. Switzerland's roads are great. Austria and Germany are beyond compare. Part of what makes their infrastructure great is that they have the audacity to tax people who use it. *
> 
> 'We" didn't rebel against anything. Wealthy land owners in the colonies rebelled and conscripted the masses to fight so the wealthy could pay less in taxes.


I have not driven on those roads, I have however driven on some of our toll roads, they were worse then the public roads, and that really is saying alot.


----------



## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

02 330Ci said:


> I have not driven on those roads, I have however driven on some of our toll roads, they were worse then the public roads, and that really is saying alot.


In Europe they spend more money on the people than we do here. We spend a lot on military, and getting the very rich, very richer. Most of their roads, public transit in cities and intercity trains are much better than ours are. Plus, everyone has health insurance, whether you work as a waiter or as a corporate exec.

Then again, we have guns...


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Kamdog said:


> .
> 
> Then again, we have guns...


Yeah, but you have great guns. We just get mediocre healthcare. 

The trains are great. Including walking to the station and waiting for the train, I can get to London in 3 1/2 hours. That same trip would take 5+ hours by car.


----------



## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Yeah, but you have great guns. We just get mediocre healthcare.
> 
> The trains are great. Including walking to the station and waiting for the train, I can get to London in 3 1/2 hours. That same trip would take 5+ hours by car.


The road surfaces are much better in Europe, and the US has nothing to compare to the surfaces and sight lines on the autobahn.

On the other hand, we are a much less regulated society. For example, I see it as my god given right as a natural born American to exceed any highway speed limit by 10 mph. I have never gotten a ticket doing that. In open highways, and driving in the right lane and going straight, you can usually do up to 15 over and not get bothered.

In Europe, the cameras are not so forgiving.


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Kamdog said:


> In Europe, the cameras are not so forgiving.


North Wales has more speed cameras than anywhere else on the planet. Our local police have nothing better to do. Violent crime is non-existent. They even hide the cameras in horse trailers.

Speeding is a minimum of 3 penalty points. 6 points and they revoke your license. Local residents do not speed.

On the up side the speed limit outside of the towns is 60MPH. 60 is crazy fast on the twisty narrow country roads.


----------



## C Sean Watts (Sep 4, 2008)

Kamdog said:


> What happens now?
> 
> People who want to buy these cars pay extra.
> 
> Geez, talking about digging. These are laws that are on the books for 30 years, but, all of a sudden, it is Obama's fault......


It is his idea they go up by a factor of four.


----------



## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

C Sean Watts said:


> It is his idea they go up by a factor of four.


Care to back that up? The current auto standard was set in 1990 at 27.5, and is still in effect today. A factor of 4 means he will set it at 110. It is my understanding that he plans to increase it by 4% a year for a few years, or make it 28.6, 29.7, etc.

Which one of us do you think is correct?


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

blueguydotcom said:


> Instead of taxing everyone, we tax the folks who buy ferraris. Honestly, when you're dropping 150k on a car that's all about passion and testosterone an extra 2% seems like chump change.


It is chump change, but it does make a difference. This notion that because you are rich, normal economics doesn't apply to you is more myth from what I've observed and the people that I know.

Why is it that you will occasionally hear stories of celebrities in a Filene's Bargain Basement, and sometimes they would admit it on late night interview shows? Sure they might find a dress or an item they can't find anywhere else, but like everyone else they are interested in a bargain and do not like to be ripped off.

You'd be surprised how many rich people will bargain every detail all the way down to the last penny. The rich have more options open to them, because that's what money can bring, but given any option, they don't want to spend anymore than they need to, and that makes them no different than you or I. The difference may be that they don't insist as strongly to paying a premium as "the poor" do. Likewise, I don't insist so strongly at going to McDonalds for a burger than a fancy tavern.

It's wrong to think that they don't consider these taxes in their purchase, because they do.


----------



## nekkibasara1213 (Sep 4, 2008)

^+1 to the above poster. You don't get rich by wasting your money. If you can spend less on something, why on earth wouldn't you?


----------



## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

Better get your M6 soon DJ ..


----------

