# Interesting AVP news



## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Im just glad this thread is still civil. Super interesting topic, thanks to DK for posting it, and thank you @Ibiza for getting the public facing documents for us. super interesting discussion on this one... hoping it stays as civil as it has been (great job everyone!)


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## MJBrown62 (Jun 15, 2016)

namelessman said:


> The local dealers make that statement by disclosing on their websites, and CAs at those dealers confirmed the same.
> 
> The CAs/GSMs said they were unhappy about it, but just like BMWNA's gag orders, the dealers had to comply.
> 
> Now it can be possible that these are regional/pilot mandates that BMWNA selectively decrees.


Must be a local or state thing. I'll try on my own to find an example.


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

namelessman said:


> The local dealers make that statement by disclosing on their websites, and CAs at those dealers confirmed the same.
> 
> The CAs/GSMs said they were unhappy about it, but just like BMWNA's gag orders, the dealers had to comply.
> 
> Now it can be possible that these are regional/pilot mandates that BMWNA selectively decrees.


could you post a link to one of those websites where this dealer cash (non incentive based) is disclosed, so I can see if the same is being done down here in southern california? I want to see what it looks like so I am comparing apples to apples.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

jjrandorin said:


> could you post a link to one of those websites where this dealer cash (non incentive based) is disclosed, so I can see if the same is being done down here in southern california? I want to see what it looks like so I am comparing apples to apples.


SoCal dealers have those disclosures too. The local dealers have additional "Dealer Allowance" disclosure.

Easiest way is to track per national dealer group, and/or track the dealers of top sales list.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

Ibiza said:


> Appears that Braman is using the Ford Modeling agency to hire Geniuses aka Brand Ambassadors.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CAp_R29GLk
> 
> ...


Club Braman is a bunch of BS. I am a member and I always roll my eyes at the invites. On another topic, I just got an email from Braman this morning stating, among other things, that Braman now "honors all national manufacturer, regional and competitive dealer offers." I read this to mean, we have lost tons of sales and if you bring us an offer from another dealer we will match it to avoid losing your sale. This would not be necessary if Braman would just be competitive from the start.....

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> Club Braman is a bunch of BS. I am a member and I always roll my eyes at the invites. On another topic, I just got an email from Braman this morning stating, among other things, that Braman now "honors all national manufacturer, regional and competitive dealer offers." I read this to mean, we have lost tons of sales and if you bring us an offer from another dealer we will match it to avoid losing your sale. This would not be necessary if Braman would just be competitive from the start.....


Braman does sound innovative, e.g. asking your boss to pay performance bonus based on your own performance goals rather than the boss's.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

jjrandorin said:


> I dont want to just search for random nor cal dealer websites, so I am hoping you have an example like you mentioned above.


As suggested, the top sales list(only 25) can be a good start, look for SoCal and NorCal ones and compare.


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## MJBrown62 (Jun 15, 2016)

namelessman said:


> SoCal dealers have those disclosures too. The local dealers have additional "Dealer Allowance" disclosure.
> 
> Easiest way is to track per national dealer group, and/or track the dealers of top sales list.


OK, my apologies to JJ, as I'm about to go a little "uncivil."

Nameless ... I feel like I'm watching a Fake News media outlet (ya'll pick whatever side you want.)

You make a claim, are asked to back it up, and you say basically go look it up yourself. You're in NoCal ... I looked at BMW SF and PeterPan, and don't see any "dealer allowance" disclosures. Just the usual lease/finance disclosures. So for now, I'm ringing the bell.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

MJBrown62 said:


> You make a claim, are asked to back it up, and you say basically go look it up yourself.


Please follow instructions carefully. 

"As suggested, the top sales list(only 25) can be a good start, look for SoCal and NorCal ones and compare." Top 15 should work too.

BTW, drove coworker to test drive a F30, and confirmed current dealer website "dealer allowance" = April's non-BMWFS cash/finance cash. :thumbup:


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

MJBrown62 said:


> OK, my apologies to JJ, as I'm about to go a little "uncivil."
> 
> Nameless ... I feel like I'm watching a Fake News media outlet (ya'll pick whatever side you want.)
> 
> You make a claim, are asked to back it up, and you say basically go look it up yourself. You're in NoCal ... I looked at BMW SF and PeterPan, and don't see any "dealer allowance" disclosures. Just the usual lease/finance disclosures. So for now, I'm ringing the bell.


I can now confirm that I have seen what Namlessman is talking about, Mjb. I dont know if its only specific dealers, or specific markets, but I have seen what he is talking about so can confirm it. Since he has not posted it directly I wont either but will thank him publicly for pointing me in the correct direction.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

jjrandorin said:


> I can now confirm that I have seen what Namlessman is talking about, Mjb. I dont know if its only specific dealers, or specific markets, but I have seen what he is talking about so can confirm it. Since he has not posted it directly I wont either but will thank him publicly for pointing me in the correct direction.


Thanks for the honorable mention!:thumbup:


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> Club Braman is a bunch of BS. I am a member and I always roll my eyes at the invites. On another topic, I just got an email from Braman this morning stating, among other things, that Braman now "honors all national manufacturer, regional and competitive dealer offers." I read this to mean, we have lost tons of sales and if you bring us an offer from another dealer we will match it to avoid losing your sale. This would not be necessary if Braman would just be competitive from the start.....
> Bimmerfest mobile app


Braman is not giving up, as Notice of Filing Proposed Summons(es) was filled today to BMW AG and BMW Manufacturing. So much for the 'new' business model.


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

MJBrown62 said:


> Deleted


Wasn't this your post "Patience is thin today folks. All the times I provide info and links and it's not reciprocated? Meh."


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## MJBrown62 (Jun 15, 2016)

..


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Come on guys... im pleading here...


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## AksNasZasNas (May 30, 2013)

jjrandorin said:


> Come on guys... im pleading here...


JJ is right. Let us not become that which we see on the nightly news. Let us be more, together. Let us recognize that there is money to be made and money to be spent. And, let us be fair to both sides of the equation and let us not nuke the other side simply because they are the other side.

Off the soap dish...


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

Resurrecting this thread.

The Braman federal complaint against BMW NA and BMW AG is now a sealed case in the Federal District Court Southern District of Florida-Miami Division, as Braman "alleges [in the Second Amended Complaint] that Defendant BMW of North America, LLC ("BMW NA") unilaterally reduced its former trading margins below levels sufficient to sustain its new vehicles sales business, and replaced these margins with "back-end," conditions-based "bonus" programs, including a program called the Added Value Program ("AVP")".

Apparently, the 2019 AVP program was updated on or around October 1, 2018, as Braman alleges "[t]he program continues many of the objectionable provisions of the prior iterations of the program". The _2019 Program Guide_ was attached as an exhibit to the Supplemental Complaint filled with the Court on December 21, 2018, but not available to the public due to the confidential nature of the document as there is a protective order regarding trade secrets, etc. :thumbdwn:


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## x986 (Oct 27, 2006)

Remember Arte Johnson on "Laugh-In" - "Verrry Interesting".


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

Braman today filled a Corrected Third Amended Complaint which now "demands entry of a judgment against BMW and BMW AG: (1) for a preliminary and permanent injunction on behalf of the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles and the State of Florida, for the use and benefit of Braman, requiring BMW to restore the previous status quo through an order: (i) voiding the Added Value Program as an unlawful modification; (ii) requiring BMW to reinstitute any unconditional margin, payment, bonus, and structure enjoyed by Braman before the time BMW made any reduction of trading margin; and, (iii) preventing BMW from modifying Braman’s dealer agreement further without complying with Fla. Stat. § 320.641; (2) for damages, including treble damages, attorneys’ fees and costs; and, (3) for such other relief this Court deems just and equitable."

Wonder if Braman's market adjustment markup also qualifies for tremble damages?


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