# For those who wished they got nav, a solution



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Saw this posted over at Fanatics...

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83316&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

It's a BMW aftermarket unit, and looks like a nice option if you don't want to do a full OEM retrofit.


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Here's what it looks like.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

It looks very nice, like true OEM unit and surprisingly isn't that expensive ($1,300).

Nice find, thanks!


----------



## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

that looks terrific, but is the running gear the same?


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Hmm... very interesting..... :yumyum: :yummy:


----------



## 3seriesbimmer (Jun 20, 2002)

I WANT!


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

I know that in-dash nav is appealing, but I think a much better solution is the Garmin StreetPilot III portable unit (at half the price). A lot of people scoff at mine until they actually see it in action. With the exception of the smaller screen (abt. 3/4 the size of the one pictured here), it's as good or better than any factory setup I've seen. Sharp color, clear voice instructions, lots of features, fairly easy to program, and the maps are very detailed and for the most part up-to-date (a lot better than the POS COMAND system in my mom's S-Class). There's also the benefit of (1) being able to transfer it between cars and (2) not losing your investment when you trade.

It's not a replacement for in-dash, but definitely take a look if you're on a budget and/or you want your car to stay as stock as possible. The best deals are on eBay... usually abt. $700 for new-in-box systems. It's been out for more than a year now, so used ones are showing up for much less... and it's a very sturdy product, so a used system is probably a good buy. MSRP is about $1000.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

What you want is the StreetPilot III _Deluxe_ (which is what you can get on eBay for abt. $700 NIB). That will get you the complete kit: GPS unit, 128 MB data card, data transfer cord (btwn. PC & card), software, dash mounts (temporary and semi-permanent), and 12V power cord/speaker. You get full unlock of the entire US and, I think, Canada using a code that you activate online.

Basically, you use the software on your PC to select which areas you want to download onto the data card. The card holds quite a bit of info, depending on how dense the area you're transferring is. Right now, I have all of Maryland, DC, Virginia, and North Carolina and part of Delaware loaded onto my card. You insert the card into the GPS unit and you're good to go. Any time you want to upload different areas, you just take out the card and go through that same process, which takes maybe 10-15 minutes at most.

It's a really well-thought out piece of equipment and probably isn't going to get outdated anytime soon. The weakest link is the PC software. Awful interface... like a early 1990s Windows 3.1 product... but it gets the job done and you only have to deal with it when you want to upload new areas.



___lk___ said:


> *been wanting a street pilot, but havent figured out all the lock/unlock stuff, what u get, what u have to buy later, etc... does the whole USA come on the thing? what do u get for the basic price?*


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

eliyale said:


> *I know that in-dash nav is appealing, but I think a much better solution is the Garmin StreetPilot III portable unit (at half the price). A lot of people scoff at mine until they actually see it in action. With the exception of the smaller screen (abt. 3/4 the size of the one pictured here), it's as good or better than any factory setup I've seen. Sharp color, clear voice instructions, lots of features, fairly easy to program, and the maps are very detailed and for the most part up-to-date (a lot better than the POS COMAND system in my mom's S-Class). There's also the benefit of (1) being able to transfer it between cars and (2) not losing your investment when you trade.
> 
> It's not a replacement for in-dash, but definitely take a look if you're on a budget and/or you want your car to stay as stock as possible. The best deals are on eBay... usually abt. $700 for new-in-box systems. It's been out for more than a year now, so used ones are showing up for much less... and it's a very sturdy product, so a used system is probably a good buy. MSRP is about $1000. *


EXACTLY.

And the Garmin has the added advantage of being able to be used in more than one car, including rental cars while traveling.

We love ours.

My only complaint with the unit is like you, I think the screen could be bigger.


----------



## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

That setup looks sweet! I wish they had another cig lighter somewhere else so I could plug my phone in, cause you would lose it with this. But if I had the extra cash I would do it :thumbup:


----------



## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

tgravo2 said:


> *That setup looks sweet! I wish they had another cig lighter somewhere else so I could plug my phone in, cause you would lose it with this. But if I had the extra cash I would do it :thumbup: *


You can buy a converter that plugs into the flashlight holder in the glove box to give you a 12v power plug.


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

tgravo2 said:


> *That setup looks sweet! I wish they had another cig lighter somewhere else so I could plug my phone in, cause you would lose it with this. But if I had the extra cash I would do it :thumbup: *


The solution is to buy the bluetooth phone kit and empty your wallet of another pesky $500 or so.


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

I've got full navigation, with *14" screen and voice recognition*.
It also plays DVD movies and music on CDs.
And I can move it from one car to another.
A Delorme software and GPS loaded on my laptop. All for less than $250.


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

... plus the cost of a laptop. 

IMHO, the built-in nav still wins over any aftermarket portable solution. There is a lot of merit to full integration. Even if I had 3 cars, I'd rather pay $1800 a piece for navigation than buy a non-integrated solution.

It just looks so nice.


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

alee said:


> *... plus the cost of a laptop.
> *


Which most of us already have.
If not, the whole thing is still less than $1800 and you get a laptop for free. :thumbup:
Question: can you operate your nav with voice commands?


> IMHO, the built-in nav still wins over any aftermarket portable solution. There is a lot of merit to full integration.


Agreed. Same for the integrated phone.
It's just that I don't think it's worth what they are asking for.


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

rumatt said:


> *Seriously though, I actually don't think the NAV looks nice in the car. Having it fully integrated and always there is very nice, but I can think of a lot of other things I would buy with $1800 first. :thumbdwn: *


To each their own I guess.

I also got every option, so there was really nothing else to spend $1800 on.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

Interesting point. Something I had never thought about. Actually, the BMW implementation of NAV is guaranteed to become outdated in about a year once iDrive is standard in all BMW products (unfortunately, sigh). The current NAV is going to look about as cool as a "bag" cell phone... remember those? :thumbdwn:



___lk___ said:


> *i agree.... the REAL problem is how it looks 3,4, 5 years from now when it's about as up-to-date as an 8-track (or cassette for that matter) player would look in there now.
> 
> think about the cell phone you used 4 or 5 years ago...probably some big dinosaur, right? that's how your built-in NAV will look... when blue-laser DVD units w/ the entire world on one disc start appearing, your CD unit for $1800 is going to start looking a little creaky. at that point, i think it's a detriment to your car's resale value.  *


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

eliyale said:


> *Interesting point. Something I had never thought about. Actually, the BMW implementation of NAV is guaranteed to become outdated in about a year once iDrive is standard in all BMW products (unfortunately, sigh). The current NAV is going to look about as cool as a "bag" cell phone... remember those? :thumbdwn: *


It is a valid concern, but I would think by the time your nav looks dated, you'll probably be car shopping for a new car anyway. I would hope those that buy nav buy it because of its utility, and not because it's :bling:.

Then again, if you really want to upgrade the looks, you can do what I did and swap the head.


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

alee said:


> *
> Then again, if you really want to upgrade the looks, you can do what I did and swap the head.
> 
> 
> ...


Holy Cow.
So we are not talking about only $1800, are we?
What's that, a 6" or a 7"?
Can you control it with voice command?


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

JetBlack330i said:


> *Holy Cow.
> So we are not talking about only $1800, are we?
> What's that, a 6" or a 7"?
> Can you control it with voice command? *


$1800 for the option. Another $1500 for the hardware to go widescreen. Recovered about $500 from resale of the old head, so $2800 total.

Voice module is not installed, but you can get it as an option from BMW.


----------



## ZBB 325Ci (Dec 19, 2001)

alee said:


> *
> Voice module is not installed, but you can get it as an option from BMW. *


So Al... Admit it now, you don't have every option!


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I have gone around and around with this, and used many of these.

Laptop with GPS: Pros - Very nice, updateable, big screen, easy to see, you always have your laptop with you, lots of map coverage, portable from car to car. Cons - Too big, hard to place, not in line of sight, passenger gets tired of haning it on lap, you always have your laptop with you.

Palm and GPS: Pros - Smaller, updateable, most people with Palms carry them, can be placed not far from line of sightPortable from car to car. Cons - Smaller screen, harder to read, have to take Palm out/put back in getting in and out of the car where you might need your Palm, lesser map coverage (have to download as needed).

Aside, there is now a Bluetooth GPS unit, the receiver sits on the dash and transmits GPS information via Bluetooth to Palm. 

Built in Nav: Pros - Integrated look, larger screen, can be voice or touch screen activated, lots of data on hand (DVD versions). Cons - Stuck with what the manufacturer picks (good or bad), not as upgradeble, can become dated, EXPENSIVE, only works in that one car.

Aftermarket Built in Navs: Pros - You get to pick the nav system you want, can be voice or touch screen, larger screen, lots of data on hand (DVD versions). Cons EXPENSIVE, stuck with single installation, not as integrated loooking (but can be very close to factory look with good installer).

Portable GPS (Garmin StreetPilot III or similar): Pros - Portable from car to car (including easy use in rental cars), mounted in line of sight, relatively inexpensive, sits on dash out of the way, does not use your other equipment (connect/discoonect), with lower expense upgrades can be full replacement. Cons - Smallish screen, no voice or touch screen (yet), doesn't look like part of car (better installs can be done), limited data (have to load data into swapable data cartridges, similar to CD based systems).

Lots of choices, but there are lots of us. We don't all drive the same model of BMW, so why should any one Nav solution fit all of us? 

They all navigate. They all direct you from point to point. They all have warts in their programming/software. None are perfect, and none wil be until they decide to become fully compatible/upgradeable/programmable. Inmagine how far computers would have gone if you only had the choices we have in navs today. 

For me, I am currently using the Portable GPS. It is the best for FOR ME. I would love to have a good built in Nav in each car. Besides cost, I don't like the lack of choice in systems and how they work. And BMWs is one of the worst built in systems out there.

But the bottom line is, try a nav, you will like it. Any one, they all will get the job done. Even my wife has come to like having the nav.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

Good summary of cons for Garmin SP, etc. However, one major difference between the StreetPilot and CD-based systems is that with the StreetPilot *you* decide which areas you want to load onto the card. My experience is that the card holds at least a 500 mile radius, so unless you are a major road warrior, that shouldn't be a problem... and you can always load a different set of maps if you plan to leave your selected region.

CD-based systems SUCK because the cutoff points are arbitrary. I live on the border between Virginia and North Carolina. The POS Mercedes COMAND system in my mom's car places the states on different CDs. There's no way to effectively program a route between the two states. A truly long distance trip could take 3 or more CDs... making the system even more useless than it typically is.

Another *major* benefit of the StreetPilot is that the maps are very complete, very detailed. Any street and almost all addresses I've needed have been in the system. Also, the POIs are extensive and pretty accurate... better than any factory system I've tried.



Pinecone said:


> *Portable GPS (Garmin StreetPilot III or similar): Cons - Smallish screen, no voice or touch screen (yet), doesn't look like part of car (better installs can be done), limited data (have to load data into swapable data cartridges, similar to CD based systems)*


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

Pinecone,
Good summary. 
For people like myself, who have one extra requirement - play DVD movies during long trips (to keep the kids from being rowdy, for example) - all those choices twindle down to one: laptop.


----------



## EZ (Feb 27, 2003)

*Amateur's question*

I am contemplating buying a nav. system before the European delivery of my 330i/ZHP on June 30th. I narrowed my choices down to the Garmin's Street Pilot III and GPS/laptop combo. The only stumbling block left is the benefit of having either (basic) system while in Europe. As I understand, both Garmin and Delorme give detailed coverage of the US only, while the European coverage is very sketchy. (And the price of European CDs is astronomical.)

Can anyone tell me how sketchy they are and if there is any use for these systems for my ED -- 14 days of traveling in Germany, Switzerland and Austria? :bigpimp:

Thanks.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

JetBlack330i said:


> *Pinecone,
> Good summary.
> For people like myself, who have one extra requirement - play DVD movies during long trips (to keep the kids from being rowdy, for example) - all those choices twindle down to one: laptop. *


Or get one of those seat back dedicated DVD players.

Or laptop for back and other Nav choice for front. This also means you can have Nav WHILE the kids are watching a movie.

Always options.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

*Re: Amateur's question*

I don't have any personal experience, but everything I've heard about the Delorme GPS unit has been bad. Yes, it's cheaper than the Garmin StreetPilot, but in this case you definitely get what you pay for. Check out the reviews of both on amazon.com and you'll see what I mean.

Regarding European coverage, the European CD for the StreetPilot is the same setup as the North American one, and Garmin claims detailed coverage of most of Europe. This claim is true for North America, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

You're right. The European CD is expensive! ($625) :yikes: Try calling Garmin to see if you can pay to unlock just the areas you plan to travel in. You can do that for the US at a reduced price. It might work for Europe. Another option... buy the European CD at full price and then re-sell it on eBay when you're finished with it. I'm sure that you'd have no trouble finding a buyer. Again, though, I'd check with Garmin to be sure this would work, if the new buyer could unlock the product at no charge.

Have fun!



EZ said:


> *I am contemplating buying a nav. system before the European delivery of my 330i/ZHP on June 30th. I narrowed my choices down to the Garmin's Street Pilot III and GPS/laptop combo. The only stumbling block left is the benefit of having either (basic) system while in Europe. As I understand, both Garmin and Delorme give detailed coverage of the US only, while the European coverage is very sketchy. (And the price of European CDs is astronomical.)
> 
> Can anyone tell me how sketchy they are and if there is any use for these systems for my ED -- 14 days of traveling in Germany, Switzerland and Germany? :bigpimp:
> 
> Thanks. *


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

You might be surprised by how useful it is. There definitely is a novelty factor, but in many cases, it is genuinely useful. I can imagine that in Europe it would be an incredible godsend. You could plot out your routes with desired stop-offs here in the US, transfer them to the card, and let the SP lead the way, or you can just wing it and choose the destinations that interest you while you're there. Program waypoints for all of the destinations that you know you're going to need (e.g. the BMW delivery center, hotels, tourist attractions), and all you have to do is touch a couple of buttons when you need directions. The SP calculates your estimated time of arrival based on your current speed and the predicted speed of the roads ahead of you (e.g. 35 mph in a residential area)... and it can route you around traffic jams, road construction, etc.

Also, don't forget that you can recoup a large part of your investment if you re-sell the unit on eBay. There's a big demand for them, and the prices are pretty good. My bet, though, is that you won't want to.

BTW, I don't work for Garmin.  I just really like the StreetPilot. Along with my to my TiVO (don't get me started on that) and, of course, my new ZHP, it's the coolest thing I own.



> The main question for me is whether I want to spend $700 on the Garmin SPIII since it is 90% a toy.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

I think the accuracy is astonishing. I live in a fairly rural area, and I haven't found a street that's not in its database during the entire year that I've owned it. Directions have been good... vocal turn-by-turn with clear maps. Think about it: GPS is *all* that Garmin does, their complete focus. They've got to keep their units on the cutting edge and very high quality or they're through.

One thing I forgot to mention, I noticed that Garmin is offering a $100 rebate right now... so you could probably get a new one for $600 or so.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

> Dammit eliyale.. you're making a good case here! Your posts are going to cost me $600.


Now, let me tell you a little bit about my TiVO... :rofl:


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

eliyale said:


> *Now, let me tell you a little bit about my TiVO... :rofl: *


Oooh, let me help if you're going to corrupt him with TiVo.


----------



## SpaceMonkey (Mar 13, 2002)

alee said:


> *Oooh, let me help if you're going to corrupt him with TiVo.  *


Did someone say TiVo? :eeps:  :bigpimp: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## EZ (Feb 27, 2003)

I am reading quietly. Very helpful, thanks! Keep on...


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

Entering destinations is no more or less difficult than doing it with a factory system. Either way, it's a minor PITA. Only solution, really, is voice control... which we're just starting to see.

The moment you get off course, the system beeps and the real (not computer synthesized) female voice asks, "Off course. Recalculate?" And you choose yes or no. You can also have it recalculate automatically (which is the default option) or you can choose not to be notified.

Long trips... the 128 MB card holds a surprising amount of information. It could easily hold complete map data for a one-day drive... say, the trip from DC to Boston (just the area along the Interstate) or, if you want broader coverage... the whole NY metropolitan area, including all of NJ and Connecticut and probably most of Upstate. Probably any trip longer than the card can hold, you'd bring your laptop with you anyway and you could load additional maps if needed.

One nice thing is that the map cut-offs aren't arbitrary like CD systems... they are arranged in regions that you are most likely to travel. So, the map that includes my southern Virginia city doesn't cut off at the border but instead includes more of North Carolina than Virginia... which makes sense because that's the direction most people here are more likely to travel for work and entertainment.



> How easy is it to enter distinations into the SP III? What about when you go off course accidently; does it automatically start telling you how to get back on course? Also, what if you want to take a really long road trip through several states. Is there any issue about fitting the whole map in the unit's memory?


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

SpaceMonkey said:


> *Did someone say TiVo? :eeps:  :bigpimp: :thumbup: :thumbup: *


There was a hillarious article about TiVO evangelists in the NY Times a couple of months ago. We are not alone. :thumbup:


----------



## DrewM (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: Streetpilot III*

I have read that the "off-course" map redraw takes an inordinate amount of time...that by the time the new course is displayed, you might need another correction (saw this on an amazon.com review).

Also, is there a solution to the Mac incompatibility as yet? I do have Virtual PC (a Windows emulator for Mac), but have read that this doesn't work with the Streetpilot III.



eliyale said:


> *Entering destinations is no more or less difficult than doing it with a factory system. Either way, it's a minor PITA. Only solution, really, is voice control... which we're just starting to see.
> 
> The moment you get off course, the system beeps and the real (not computer synthesized) female voice asks, "Off course. Recalculate?" And you choose yes or no. You can also have it recalculate automatically (which is the default option) or you can choose not to be notified.
> 
> ...


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> *Or get one of those seat back dedicated DVD players.
> 
> Or laptop for back and other Nav choice for front. This also means you can have Nav WHILE the kids are watching a movie.
> 
> Always options.  *


But all of them costs more than $150. 
Kids only watch DVD on long highway streches. I only need NAV in cities. No point in spending money unecessarily.
I am happy with the laptop + GPS solution.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

WRT StreetPilot III

Route calucations (and recalculations) take up to two minutes. And yes, I have had it have to recalculate again as soon as it is done. The big problem is the tiny processor can't show present position navigation while recalculating. But there have been very few times when this has been a problem.

For quick stops (around the exit) I just tell it to not recalculate.

A single 128 MB data cartridge can hold from Augusta, GA to NE Maryland, both City Navigator and the OLD MetroGuide data.

When we picked up our M3, I used to 128MB data carts to hold Greenville/Spartenburg south to Orlando (entire SE from mid Mississippi to the coast) and a second to hold north to NE MD (mid Ohio/KY to the coast).

The OLD MetroGuide had nav data by another company that gave some detail missing with City Navigator 4.01 (even more needed with loder City Navigator software). It also gives some different POIs.

The NEW MetroGuide is the same NavTech data as City Navigator and just about every one else (BMW).

The OLD Metroguide is still useful at times.

I have found places that do not have a lot of data with either package, but they are not very many. One place it WILL fall down is some private gated communities. No access to map the little tiny short roads in there.


Entering addresses requires that you scroll each character up or down to the right character. It does skip characters if there are no matches for that order. So if you put in say T and there are no entries with the second letter M, M is skipped as you scroll in the second position. Street numbers are entered separately fromthe street name. OCaasionally you have to figure out what the nav calls a street versus the lcoals (is it N XXX Road or North XXX Road).

POIs are accessed the same way. You select a category then use the up/down for each character position until you get clsoe enough.

BTW as you are selecting characters in the upper part of the screen, the lower part shows a list that jumps to the first instance of what you have entered so far. Once you can see what you want, hit enter, then scroll the list down to the entry you want. Sort of a shortcut.

I find that it is much easier to use while driving (Yes, I know you shouldn't try to enter info while driving, but sometimes you know you are going to) than the Magellan used by Hertx.

I did find one thing interesting I hadn't known on my last trip. Each category of POI holds what you last entered. So if you look up a hotel (Courtyard), then look up a resturant, then go back to Hotels, Courtyard will still be there. Pretty neat.


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

rumatt said:


> *
> How easy is it to enter distinations into the SP III? What about when you go off course accidently; does it automatically start telling you how to get back on course? Also, what if you want to take a really long road trip through several states. Is there any issue about fitting the whole map in the unit's memory? (Sorry for all the questions!)
> 
> Anyone here have experience with Delorme software? *


This must be a queue for me. 
I have Delorme Earthmate (GPS unit half the size of a pack of cigaretts) and Street USA 2003 (the latest combo being sold for $130 at their site).
I will write a belated review (in the middle of my memorial day movie Black Hawk Down) in another thread and will replace this sentence with a link to it later.


----------



## eliyale (May 9, 2003)

You have the option of setting several levels of "accuracy" that affect the time it takes to calculate routes... Best, Better, Normal, Quicker, and Quickest (something like that). The default setting is Normal, and yes it can take awhile. After some experimenting, I leave it set on Quickest. I don't find that the routes are any different, and the calculation times are MUCH faster (less than 30 seconds usually).

I live in a rural area, so there usually are only two or three ways to get from Point A to Point B, so it doesn't make a difference. It might make a diffference in a place like LA where there are often many potential routings to the same destination.



> Route calucations (and recalculations) take up to two minutes. And yes, I have had it have to recalculate again as soon as it is done. The big problem is the tiny processor can't show present position navigation while recalculating. But there have been very few times when this has been a problem.


----------



## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

rumatt said:


> *Holy cow. Unless I'm reading it wrong, it's only $129. http://www.delorme.com/earthmate/
> 
> If I can find some reviews of this software and am convinced it is reasonable, I'll buy it. *


I've got the Delorme USB Earthmate GPS unit plus Street Atlas 2003. The GPS unit itself seems to work fine, and as an added bonus over many other units, it's WAAS compatible (meaning it can get incredibly accuracy). Street Atlas 2003, on the other hand, is still pretty miserable. It marked me a block away on a journey in an area where the streets are ancient and well-defined. Navigating in Chicago, the voice directions become confused and would read the last half of the sentence, pause, and then the first half.

The GPS unit will work with MS Streets and Trips (and other NMEA compatible applications). MS S&T suffers from no voice directions, 15 seconds updates (hacks available on the web to take this down to 1 second), and lack of in-car orientation (it's mostly designed for route planning, not enroute directions).

So, although I like the GPS unit, the software sucks.


----------



## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Amateur's question*



rumatt said:


> *Yes, in particular people are complaining about the horrible user interface in the 2003 version of Street & Atlas. However, it supposidly gives much better driving directions (turn by turn with a voice) than Microsoft Streets & Trips.
> 
> Anyone know if the accuracy of the Garmin driving directions is better than the Microsoft or Delorme software? I'm willing to put up with a bulky laptop to save $600, but if the garmin gives better directions it might convince me to buy it. *


Actually, the UI for Street Atlas 2003 is a major improvement over previous versions (ask me how I know -- entering cities by zip code, argh!). It still is lousy in comparison to MS Streets & Trips. I think Streets and Trips (I have 2001) gives better directions than StreetAtlas (which consistently gives me non-existant or illegal turns on to Interstate on-ramps).

I can't comment on the accuracy of the Garmin directions.


----------



## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

alee said:


> *Oooh, let me help if you're going to corrupt him with TiVo.  *


Count me in for some TiVo corrupting!


----------



## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

rumatt said:


> *Everything I've read says the opposite, saying that the Delorme GPS unit does not work with any other software, despite what Delorme claims. The NMEA must be 2.0 or later for Streets & Trips, so maybe that's the problem.
> 
> The AGPS add-on to Microsoft Mappoint claims to correct the problems by greatly improving the driving directions functionality of Mappoint. The problem is that Mappoint is > $200. I've ordered the trial version so I will post the results. If it's good I might buy a copy of Mappoint off ebay. They seem to be selling for around $100.
> 
> BTW, I bought the Garmin GPS 72 handheld off amazon for $133 shipped. It has WAAS support and will work with Mappoint for my europe trip. I'm still wondering if I should have sprung for the SP III (and thus not need the laptop for US maps) but it's a done deal now. I'll post my results once I get it up and running. *


The Delorme USB GPS unit works fine with MS Streets and Trips 2001 (I didn't bother "upgrading" it since there weren't many useful new features). The first time I ran it, it did take 20 minutes to get a fix, but ever since then, it locks on very quickly. Needless to say, I don't have AGPS.

Other Delorme units are not NMEA compliant without hardware modifications (they send "ASTRAL" messages that are Delorme specific and have to see these in response).

I've gone the Nav route, so I'm bypassing all of these GPS issues with my ED car this summer, but I've enjoyed playing with various GPS units (for my current cars and business trip rentals).

AGPS looks like a pretty good adjunct to MapPoint. Maybe I'll have to get a friend at MS to pick me up a copy at cost.


----------



## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

I posted a review of the Delorme system


----------



## TGD (Aug 7, 2002)

*AutoRoute*



> Mappoint: My understanding is that Mappoing is a full superset of Streets & Trips (or AutoRoute for Europe).


I got AutoRoute Europe for free from HP deskjet cartridge rebate. I never installed it though since I had no use for it...


----------



## sdwolff (May 22, 2002)

What about the Garmin IQue?


----------



## jaspar (May 11, 2003)

what about the blaupunkt travel pilot RNS-149 and the harmon kardon traffic pro?


----------



## Nick T. (Feb 22, 2003)

My choice is the StreetPilot III primarily because the ability to place it almost directly in my line of vision. I do a lot of my driving in the twisties of the Sierra in my roadster. Zoomed in to the 500 ft scale lets me anticipate the twists on unfamiliar roads. Couldn’t do that with an in-dash unit without sacrificing some speed.


----------



## kneebiters (Sep 8, 2002)

Do any of you SPIII endorsers know of a way to try it before I buy it? Have you found a retailer with a good money back, no questions policy?


----------



## Nick T. (Feb 22, 2003)

Try a Google search for retailers, or a Yahoo search for a SP III mailing list. You may be able to find a loaner unit that way.


----------



## bls (Sep 16, 2002)

___lk___ said:


> *i agree.... the REAL problem is how it looks 3,4, 5 years from now when it's about as up-to-date as an 8-track (or cassette for that matter) player would look in there now.
> *


I thought about that a little before I ordered the Nav, but (a) that's partly the nature of any fast-moving technology. Every year there's a new cell phone that makes last year's look clunky. But cell phones are still useful even if they're not bleeding edge, and if you had refused to buy one for the last fifteen years because "next year's will be better" --- well, you're correct but you're also missing out on having a cell phone.

Plus (b) the Nav system software can be upgraded. That'll never increase the resolution of the screen, or make it a touch screen, but the Nav can be made better in the future without wholesale replacement.


----------



## holee (Jan 8, 2002)

Garmin now has the successor to the SPIII.

http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2610_2650/

Slightly smaller, with touch-screen and remote. The 2610 is portable-ish, while the 2650 is stuck in your car and cannot be ordered on-line. On the bright side, the 2650 is integrated with your car's speedometer and can operate even without satellite coverage.

I've used the SPIII for about two years now, and I'm seriously contemplating buying the new one. You can find it for around $800 or so on-line. I'm also thinking of getting the OEM after-factory install nav that's been posted around, but if it's anything like the factory nav, then it's going to have a much more limited functionality and map data than the SPIII has.

I wrote a review of the SPIII and my install attempts when I first put it in:

http://www.bluebmw.com/gps.html


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

holee said:


> Garmin now has the successor to the SPIII.
> 
> http://www.garmin.com/products/sp2610_2650/
> 
> ...


I didn't need to know that. 

Only thing I think they did wrong is to make the screen smaller. With the remote and touch screen, I would have hoped for a larger screen for more info in view.

The use of Compact Flash cards is awesome, with 512 MB CF cards readily available. That means the whole Eastern US on a single card.

The new mount looks much nicer too.

8 bit color, which is double the color depth and means it goes from 16 color to 256 colors.

The install by authorized dealers only is a bummer for the version with DR capability.

But overall, I am ready to order.  Probably not with DR capabilities because of making it harder to swap between cars. And the only time I have a problem is in tunnels, and at that point I hav ea pretty good idea of where I am going.


----------



## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Nice info on the new 2610.


I've had my SPIII for under a year... nice unit with many pros (nicely summarized by Pinecone :thumbup: )... and unfortunately, many cons. 

That slug of a processor needs an upgrade--- screen redraw is terrible when you have a lot of detail. Also, the tiny, proprietary cards are another big downside.

I'll be upgrading mine.


----------



## DrewM (Sep 2, 2002)

Anyone know if it will be updateable on a Mac, with or without Virtual PC?



Pinecone said:


> I didn't need to know that.
> 
> Only thing I think they did wrong is to make the screen smaller. With the remote and touch screen, I would have hoped for a larger screen for more info in view.
> 
> ...


----------



## holee (Jan 8, 2002)

If you are going to get the 2610, I suggest http://www.tvnav.com. I got my SPIII from them, and they have the lowest price on the 2610 I've seen around. Plus they're an authorized Garmin reseller (not all of the GPS stores are).

I don't know how much faster the new processor is supposed to be. Just that it's "faster."

I'm still not sure HOW useful the touch screen is. The SPIII screen's kind of small to begin with, the buttons will have to be pretty big.

There are two things I don't like about the 2610.
(1) The remote antenna does not use a BNC connector like the SPIII's do. So I'll have to buy another antenna and re-wire the car now.

(2) There is no separate wire for the speaker. The power and speaker wire are now all on the same cable. So you can't set up an external speaker.


----------



## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

holee said:


> If you are going to get the 2610, I suggest http://www.tvnav.com. I got my SPIII from them, and they have the lowest price on the 2610 I've seen around. Plus they're an authorized Garmin reseller (not all of the GPS stores are).
> 
> I don't know how much faster the new processor is supposed to be. Just that it's "faster."
> 
> ...


Anything faster is better... the current one is a dog! Garmin must have cornered the market on old 8086 processors for the SPIII. 

The biggest negatives seems to be that they haven't increased screen resolution at all. It's still a meager 305x160 instead of 320x240 like most PDAs.


----------



## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Discussion thread on the new 2610: http://www.gpscity.com/cgi-bin/discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000011


----------



## CascadeTelcom (Aug 7, 2002)

*Garman iQue3600*

Forbes has a iQue article at: 
http://www.forbes.com/2003/07/25/cx_ah_0725tentech.html


----------



## holee (Jan 8, 2002)

There's a review of the iQue on alt.satellite.gps. Basic gist is that it's got horrible battery life, but it's all right. I think for driving purposes though, the SPIII or 2160 would be much more effective.

I also talked to a dealer who mentioned he could install a fixed LCD screen to the right of the radio, and install the Alpine nav system to pipe into that for ~ $2100. The Alpine nav is better than the BMW nav, but the fixed LCD screen sounds like it could break real fast.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

holee said:


> I don't know how much faster the new processor is supposed to be. Just that it's "faster."
> 
> I'm still not sure HOW useful the touch screen is. The SPIII screen's kind of small to begin with, the buttons will have to be pretty big.
> 
> ...


1) Faster is always better.  Heck even the new alms have a 175 MHz processor.

2) Get an adapter. There are adapters from just about ANY antenna connector to ANY antenna connector.

3) Get a second power cord and cut it apart. I suspect that they are just using a connector with more pins to put the speaker on the same connector. I don't like the dual connector setup of the SPIII. I actually got a second speaker cord to make a power/speaker cable that hooks into a connector not using the lighter. Sort of a removeable hard wire.


----------



## holee (Jan 8, 2002)

Aaargh. Now I'm depressed.

I found the following:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pioneer/CDA/CarProducts/CarProductDetails/0,1429,93049,00.html

I can get it flush mounted in the center console (where the OEM after factory nav would be installed, removing the cig lighter) for $2000.

Now I'm REALLY tempted.

Touch screen, traffic updates, PCMCIA support, DVD based nav. It's only 8 channels though for some reason.

It'd be a very nice upgrade from my SPIII. But for $2K? Somebody talk me out of this FAST!!!


----------



## Maverick88 (Jul 5, 2003)

holee said:


> Aaargh. Now I'm depressed.
> 
> I found the following:
> 
> ...


Hey holee, Did you end up buying it?

I was wondering because I am also considering purchasing the same product.


----------



## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

holee said:


> Aaargh. Now I'm depressed.
> 
> I found the following:
> 
> ...


The OEM nav is only 6 channels, apparently. Seems to work well, despite that. I have no idea why they couldn't use 12 channel receivers. They can't cost that much more.


----------



## Fuzzypuppy (May 1, 2003)

*I got the Navman iCN 630*

I'm using the OEM BMW system in my M3 and this Navman iCN 630 in our 330. Here are some pics of the Navman:




























I'm quite happy with the Navman as a cheaper, moveable alternative to the OEM, although it was much more of a pain to find a suitable method to mount it (the stock mounts aren't so good IMHO).


----------

