# X5 Long Term issues



## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

I have a 2011 X5 D that just turned 80K miles and has given me the CEL warning which has unfortunately indicated that I have to replace the DEF sensor and tank $2300 Father's day gift. Getting this fixed this week.

I have another sensor that reads that oil level is overfilled and comes on after oil changes, goes off for a while and then comes back on. After being told there wasn't a dipstick to read the oil level by the dealer I purchased the X5 from, another dealer showed me where it was. I haven't replaced that sensor at $500 and prefer the old fashioned analog method of reading oil level. Anyone else have the oil level sensor issue.

I have been changing engine oil at 5000 intervals since 60k miles and am getting the transfer case oil changed. I've been told that the transmission oil is lifetime and doesn't have a service interval. What else should I consider having serviced at this time?

For those of you with more mileage on you E70, what kinds of issues have you run into? I was hoping to take this vehicle to 200K mileage but operating costs in later years and higher mileage are concerns. I would appreciate any feedback. I do use my X5 to pull a small airstream (3000lbs)


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

BMW says ZF ATF is life time, ZF does not! BMW also says differential gear lube is lifetime and that defies common sense.

I had my MT VW TDI ALH for thirteen years and it was obvious when the transmission lube needed to be changed and so was the improvement!


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BMW7X said:


> I have a 2011 X5 D that just turned 80K miles and has given me the CEL warning which has unfortunately indicated that I have to replace the DEF sensor and tank $2300 Father's day gift. Getting this fixed this week.
> 
> I have another sensor that reads that oil level is overfilled and comes on after oil changes, goes off for a while and then comes back on. After being told there wasn't a dipstick to read the oil level by the dealer I purchased the X5 from, another dealer showed me where it was. I haven't replaced that sensor at $500 and prefer the old fashioned analog method of reading oil level. Anyone else have the oil level sensor issue.
> 
> ...


7X,

I changed my ATF at 100k which is actually recommended by BMW, but when you ask them to do it they will decline to do so a recite the "lifetime oil" B.S.:dunno:

I spoke with ZF in US and Germany and they recommended to follow the OEM until warranty expires, then every 60k miles.

I watched the ATF be changed by an Indy and it was rather nasty looking, dirty, and definitely past due at 100k miles. No metal though.

You can order the ATF kit on line and it comes with all that you need. About $260k, plus the labor which was about 1 1/2 hours. I went ahead and did the differential while at it.

Peace of mind!:thumbup:


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## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

Doug Huffman said:


> BMW says ZF ATF is life time, ZF does not! BMW also says differential gear lube is lifetime and that defies common sense.
> 
> I had my MT VW TDI ALH for thirteen years and it was obvious when the transmission lube needed to be changed and so was the improvement!


Thanks Doug. It seems reasonable to me that the ATF should be changed but the dealer tech's told me that the detergent in the new ATF can cause damage to the transmission and thats why they don't recommend changing it?? I wasn't paying close enough attention but something about damaging the seals? Does that make sense to you?


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## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

Flyingman said:


> 7X,
> 
> I changed my ATF at 100k which is actually recommended by BMW, but when you ask them to do it they will decline to do so a recite the "lifetime oil" B.S.:dunno:
> 
> ...


Thanks Flyingman. How many miles have you put on since the ATF change? It seems reasonable to me that the ATF should be changed but the dealer tech's told me that the detergent in the new ATF can cause damage to the transmission and thats why they don't recommend changing it?? I wasn't paying close enough attention but something about damaging the seals? Does that make sense to you?


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

One must only use ZF branded ATF in ZF transmissions and by their labeling they may even be peculiar to particular ZF AT lines.

Now I'll bet a nickel that every ex-spurt that comes along and contradicts that is already on my Iggy List. I use the Iggy List differently, not to not see the Iggy's post, but to remind myself to not quote, not reply, or to at least think twice about doing so.


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## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

I'm a novice long way from an X-spurt and trying not to be an Iggy. Thanks for your feedback. Helps my lernen


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## Nulevel (Sep 3, 2015)

I had my X5 serviced a few months back because I got a message that my vehicle wouldn't start in 1,000 miles if I didn't add Diesel Exhaust Fluid. 

Took it to the dealer, they serviced it, the message disappeared. 

The message returned this week. LOL


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## BMW7X (Aug 4, 2013)

Nulevel said:


> I had my X5 serviced a few months back because I got a message that my vehicle wouldn't start in 1,000 miles if I didn't add Diesel Exhaust Fluid.
> 
> Took it to the dealer, they serviced it, the message disappeared.
> 
> The message returned this week. LOL


Got to love German electronics Here's hoping you don't have a bad DEF sensor in the tank like I do or you're still under warranty


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Nulevel said:


> I had my X5 serviced a few months back because I got a message that my vehicle wouldn't start in 1,000 miles if I didn't add Diesel Exhaust Fluid.
> 
> Took it to the dealer, they serviced it, the message disappeared.
> 
> The message returned this week. LOL


Did the "dealer" comply with the BMW Service Instruction Bulletins, to not overfill and filling from a bottle?

I believe that overfilling the DEF tanks damages them. I believe filling with a tank-pump-hose-nozzle rig damages the DEF tanks. I believe that there are no BMW instructions allowing over filling the tanks. I believe that there are no BMW instructions allowing use of a tank-pump-hose-nozzle rig. I believe the fluid impulse damages the DEF tanks.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Nulevel said:


> I had my X5 serviced a few months back because I got a message that my vehicle wouldn't start in 1,000 miles if I didn't add Diesel Exhaust Fluid.
> 
> Took it to the dealer, they serviced it, the message disappeared.
> 
> The message returned this week. LOL


Did they say how much DEF they filled? If they only put in enough to turn the light off it wouldnt be long before its back on.

Also, look up how to fill the DEF yourself, it extremely easy and any novice should do it themselves. The dealership charges about 1000% more than the service is worth.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Nulevel said:


> I had my X5 serviced a few months back because I got a message that my vehicle wouldn't start in 1,000 miles if I didn't add Diesel Exhaust Fluid.
> 
> Took it to the dealer, they serviced it, the message disappeared.
> 
> The message returned this week. LOL


DEF is used up, like gasoline or diesel fuel, and is guaranteed to need replacing at intervals, depending on how much is added at each "fill-up." Taking the cautions elsewhere here seriously, I plan to add a 2.5 gallon jug to the passive tank (i.e., the one under the air hose to the air filter) whenever I get that message. It takes 5 minutes, is easy to do, and can be done for just a few bucks by anybody capable of holding 2-1/2 gallons of water up for a few seconds 3 or 4 times.

DEF is defined by the EPA, all brands are required to be alike, and as long as you take care not to get any from a jug that was opened before you got it, you should have no problem.

You can also buy it from one of those bulk fillers you'll find at truck stops. If you first spring for the 2.5 liter bottle from your BMW dealer, use it, and cut the bottom off to use the top as a funnel, you can buy 3 or 4 gallons from that bulk tank, add it with zero mess, and get a bit more range between DEF fills.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

IIRC total DEF capacity (active tank + passive tank) is 5.95 US gallons. Most of it is in the passive tank.

I agree the DEF tanks (active & passive) can be damaged due to the "water hammer" impulse when the tank goes full by using a DEF fill pump. There is no risk of damage by gravity filling with a funnel until DEF overflows out the fill port. The DEF tanks technically can't be over-filled because excess DEF simply spills out the fill port. Best to gravity fill with a funnel. I like to cut the bottom off an AdBlue bottle and use it as a custom funnel for gravity filling. I also pull the bottle's air vent tube out to keep DEF from spattering everywhere.

It would be good to only fill the passive tank and leave the active tank alone. If the fluid transfer pump between tanks takes a crap, you'll know it because it won't keep the active tank filled and you'll get the low DEF warning sooner than normal and give you a heads up that there's a problem.

I buy the 2.5 gallon jugs of Peak branded DEF at my local Walmart* store. DEF is DEF is DEF is DEF is DEF....is DEF. DEF is defined according to an industry standard, not just EPA, and is used worldwide. DEF is 32.5% Urea and 67.5% de-ionized water. It's all the same and a commodity item so there's no need to pay more for it at a BMW dealer. It's available just about everywhere including every local gas station C-store. Given that DEF has a shelf life, I don't keep spare DEF around and only buy some DEF after I get the low DEF warning and the 1k mile countdown starts.

DIY'ing a DEF fill is no harder than adding windshield washer fluid. DIY all of your DEF fills and avoid paying the $300 fee at a BMW dealer!

Good luck.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

BMW7X said:


> I have a 2011 X5 D that just turned 80K miles and has given me the CEL warning which has unfortunately indicated that I have to replace the DEF sensor and tank $2300 Father's day gift. Getting this fixed this week.
> 
> I have another sensor that reads that oil level is overfilled and comes on after oil changes, goes off for a while and then comes back on. After being told there wasn't a dipstick to read the oil level by the dealer I purchased the X5 from, another dealer showed me where it was. I haven't replaced that sensor at $500 and prefer the old fashioned analog method of reading oil level. Anyone else have the oil level sensor issue.
> 
> ...


I'm only at 125k miles in my E70 X5 35d. Should be no problem getting past 200k miles and beyond.

Oil is changed at 11k mile intervals by the book and using only proper LL04 oil.

I DIY all oil changes and use an extractor pump to suck the old oil out thru the dipstick tube. I also suck old oil out of the oil filter housing. The engine hides some oil that will never come out by draining from the pan, no matter how long you wait. I live on a hill and my driveway has a slope to it and I position the car such that the lowest point is at the corner where the dipstick tube is located. When I'm ready to pour new oil in, I first pour it into the oil filter housing to replace what I took out earlier and make sure the oil pump and everything is primed. I pour it in quickly to fill the housing up and then I stick the oil filter and cap assembly in before the oil drains down into the rest of the engine. I do this to wet the new filter and guarantee everything is primed before startup. I pour the rest of the new oil in thru the valve cover like normal.

I've been using my BMW dealer for fuel filter changes and I may DIY the next filter change. I have DIY'd all other filter changes.

Brake fluid has been changed on schedule according to CBS.
It got recently got new front brakes and the rear brakes still have some life left on them.

I DIY all DEF fills.

I drive it hard and like it was stolen. The car is regularly driven hard and used for hauling ar$e on the highway for long periods. It has never been babied or used exclusively for short trips. Zero issues with intake clogging/CBU. I haven't actually checked for CBU but power and MPGs are all where they should be. "Drive it like you stole it" applies.

Good luck.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Doug Huffman said:


> BMW says ZF ATF is life time, ZF does not! BMW also says differential gear lube is lifetime and that defies common sense.
> 
> I had my MT VW TDI ALH for thirteen years and it was obvious when the transmission lube needed to be changed and so was the improvement!


This is simply not true. For the 6HP ZF states the fluid is lifetime fill unless your vehicle meets the following:

"Frequent highway driving at top speed"
"Offensive, sporting driving style"
"Frequent trailer operation"

If you meet one of those three scenarios then ZF recommends a fluid change somewhere between 80k - 120k KM or at 8 years depending on load.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BMW7X said:


> Thanks Flyingman. How many miles have you put on since the ATF change? It seems reasonable to me that the ATF should be changed but the dealer tech's told me that the detergent in the new ATF can cause damage to the transmission and thats why they don't recommend changing it?? I wasn't paying close enough attention but something about damaging the seals? Does that make sense to you?


Maybe about 3k miles. No issues noted so far.

If you wait till you start having issues, then change the oil, then yeah, you are gonna have a problem.

My oil was just really dirty. Normal clutch wear and temp degradation based on what the service tech said.

Maybe the AT will crap out soon anyway, but doubt it will because I changed the oil.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

F32Fleet said:


> This is simply not true. For the 6HP ZF states the fluid is lifetime fill unless your vehicle meets the following:
> 
> "Frequent highway driving at top speed"
> "Offensive, sporting driving style"
> ...


F32Fleet,

I think there is some contradicting information out there. I found one BMW checklist that calls for ATF change at 100k. I showed that to my SA and he just shrugged.:dunno:

I spoke with both ZF in US and Germany and they were very clear that ATF is recommended to be as per OEM while under warranty and then every 60k miles (or equivalent kms).

I believe I have this documentation on my work computer and will share this with the group.

My oil was really dark and dirty looking at 100k. I probably would have been better served by following ZF at 60k than BMW at 100k, or "lifeftime".

The fact is our AT are gonna die at some point most likely, I just prefer it goes later than sooner, sort of like me!:rofl:


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Hope that money, like ATF, runs out after we do!

Is there any corporate experience here with ZF AT/ATF flushes with a patent flush-machine? I've been looking for the internal ZF flow path to convince myself of the proper/best inlet and outlet ports - fill/drain/cooler out/cooler in.


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## Aufgeblassen (May 25, 2016)

n1das said:


> Given that DEF has a shelf life, I don't keep spare DEF around and only buy some DEF after I get the low DEF warning and the 1k mile countdown starts.


Yeah, just like bottled water has an expiration date. 

I NEVER buy the stuff. It is like paying for air to breathe.


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## Nulevel (Sep 3, 2015)

Hoooper said:


> Did they say how much DEF they filled? If they only put in enough to turn the light off it wouldnt be long before its back on.
> 
> Also, look up how to fill the DEF yourself, it extremely easy and any novice should do it themselves. The dealership charges about 1000% more than the service is worth.


Thanks.


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