# I really want a 335d, but I'm scared of expensive repairs



## askmax108 (Aug 11, 2015)

Hey all, I'm currently a college student doing some very, very early pre-purchasing research for my first post-college car. The 335d seems to be really great in terms of both power and fuel economy, plus there's the neatness factor of driving a diesel. However, most 335d's on the market now have either passed or are fast-approaching the end of their warranties. How can I avoid buying a lemon in need of a multi-thousand dollar engine fix? How much money do I need to spend if I want to keep one of these things running indefinitely? There are some examples near me for about $19K for a 2009 model with 50K on the odo, or $23K for a 2011 with 65K. What should I look for from a used model? At what point does a 335d become too expensive to own?


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

The 335d is not a very reliable car (listed in April 2015 issue of Consumer Report as a used car to avoid). Compared to a domestic, Japanese or Korean car, it is also expensive to repair even with an independent mechanic. The only way to keep the repair cost low is to be you own mechanic and get the parts online. Two year ago, my niece who was graduating from University was about to buy a BMW. I dissuaded her and now she drive a reliable Subaru.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

I drove my same college car for 2 years after graduation. This was with a job commensurate to my degree. I would wait on getting in debt especially if the car could eat your lunch with repairs.


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## askmax108 (Aug 11, 2015)

BB_cuda: I don't have a current "college car", so I'm going to need to buy something anyways, and I figured $20K for a used BMW would go down easier than taking on the same amount of debt for some anemic, pokey, CVT economy car that can't match the diesel's economy or enjoyability. I'm also worried because they aren't making any more of these, and it'd be nice to own one before the only ones available have 200K on the clock and are described as "ran when parked". I expect to be making about $40K once I land my first job, and while I will be able to afford the monthly payments and insurance, something like a $5K manifold replacement or a $2K brake job out of the blue is not going to work for me. I can work with a monthly budget, but exorbitant one-time repairs were what forced me to sell my previous car (1977 Ford LTD II).

montr: as for your suggestion of working on it myself, how hard is it to diagnose and fix one of these? What special tools are needed? Do you generally need special BMW training, or is it doable for a self-taught gearhead with a Chilton's manual?


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

My POS college car was probably worth $500 but the A/C worked which is life support system in Texas. So if you're buying and can't afford an unpredictable situation, this might not be the car for you. I have an older Truck and its often driven to work. If BMW breaks down, I don't have to be in situation to fix it immediately. Time to research, diagnose and then do the DIY repair is my defense against high cost repairs. Ultimately, a big one will come that I can't do repair on and I'll have to pay that large expense. Hopefully, I saved enough on the other DIYs that I have enough set to side to cover the big one. There is no manual specifically for 335d


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Drive an appliance car at least until your loans are paid off.

My doctor daughter is still driving her undergraduate Civic while she debates the value of the liquidity of her savings or finally getting shed of her student debt. 
She reports that her previous employ, Makawao Town Pharmacy, on Maui was held-up at gunpoint Tuesday.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

askmax108 said:


> ... as for your suggestion of working on it myself, how hard is it to diagnose and fix one of these? What special tools are needed? Do you generally need special BMW training, or is it doable for a self-taught gearhead with a Chilton's manual?


You must buy an OBD II code reader that reads/interprets BMW specific codes. Bavarian Technic, BMWhat, Torque are ones in use by forum members.

For some tasks, special tools are needed. But those tasks are pretty advanced ones; most just require metric wrenches/sockets and torx drives of various sizes.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

montr said:


> The 335d is not a very reliable car (listed in April 2015 issue of Consumer Report as a used car to avoid). Compared to a domestic, Japanese or Korean car, it is also expensive to repair even with an independent mechanic. The only way to keep the repair cost low is to be you own mechanic and get the parts online. Two year ago, my niece who was graduating from University was about to buy a BMW. I dissuaded her and now she drive a reliable Subaru.


The 335d is no more unreliable than any BMW. Many have high miles on theirs with no major repairs. Mine has 65,000 miles and is running strong. The hysteria about carbon buildup is more likely in a small, vocal, and visible minority but does exist. It is my belief that people think "diesel is diesel" and put the cheapest crap fuel in their cars, as they rarely mention it when complaining about CBU.

The 335d has essentially an exotic engine - the highest output diesel with twin turbo's and an aluminum block, higher revving than most other diesels. The only more exotic diesel is the tri-turbo made for the European market in a 5 series.

When owning a Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, Audi, etc. one can pretty much assume that yearly maintenance and repair go into the $2,000 range if not more. This can be considered normal for such a car.

So if you have a reasonable mechanic that is willing and able to work on the 335d, and can handle a couple of grand for maintenance/repair, you can go for it. Otherwise, at 40K/year you should probably go for an interesting VW or Mazda that can be easier on the wallet.

Good luck with your search!

PL


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## firstbimmer (May 25, 2006)

I'm not going to try and talk you out of any buying decision, however, I would suggest a method that I currently entail. I place $200-300 a month in an account that is only around for car maintenance. I use that account for oil changes, brakes, tires, unforeseen repairs, etc. If the car was reliable over the life of ownership, then I have a nice chunk of money sitting around to put towards my next car. If not, then at least I have already budgeted for those costs. Our financial situation may be different, but this is a habit I started over a decade ago when I graduated from college and bought a used honda. If I cant afford to comfortably pay my car payment, insurance, and the extra $200-300 a month, then I don't buy the car. Even though I could deal with any unforseen costs without this system at this point, I have found that this system takes all the worry away from unexpected costs. My 335d is a perfect example....yeah it may cost a bunch in repairs over the next couple years, but I love driving it and I dont stress about any potential costs around the corner. Just food for thought to a recent college graduate.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

I would only consider it in your shoes if you know you will be able to spend $2k on any given day on repairs. Even doing the work yourself can be quite costly in parts. You might not ever need to spend a dime beyond standard maintenance costs, but you might go to bed one night having either just burned $2k on parts or having a car that doesn't really run. For me it's been a perfectly fine reliable car with 113k on the clock, no major repairs or worries but a couple parts here and there. As long as you don't get one that has advanced cbu symptoms and you block the egr off as soon as you get it it should be ok.


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## askmax108 (Aug 11, 2015)

Generally speaking, can you pay a mechanic in installments for a repair like this (e.g. brake shoe replacement, walnut stuff on the turbo) so it's spread out over several months? Or pay for some kind of "maintenance insurance" on a monthly basis? I'm just going to be a bit cash poor right when I graduate, so it would be a while before I have several thousand in cash on hand.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Generally speaking, mechanics accept payment by credit card. 

Modern cars change disc brake pads and rotors together.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

From a financial responsibility standpoint making this purchase in your current situation is really ill-advised. Your best choice is to buy something that is one step away from being free ($1k-$2k) and upgrade when you can afford it. It might not be all that fun to drive a 90s civic, but its a lot more fun than worrying about how many days you will have to not eat so you can pay for that brake job. Getting into credit card debt is one of the worst mistakes people make and it's a great way to guarantee that you can never actually afford any of the big purchases you make.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Hoooper said:


> From a financial responsibility standpoint making this purchase in your current situation is really ill-advised. Your best choice is to buy something that is one step away from being free ($1k-$2k) and upgrade when you can afford it. It might not be all that fun to drive a 90s civic, but its a lot more fun than worrying about how many days you will have to not eat so you can pay for that brake job. Getting into credit card debt is one of the worst mistakes people make and it's a great way to guarantee that you can never actually afford any of the big purchases you make.


Financing a car is a losing proposition, a depreciating asset if you will.

I was at this decision point in getting a car for my recently graduated daughter. We decided on a relatively cheap but competent car - a Ford Fiesta sedan Titanium. The loan rate and warranty were quite good as well as the level of "necessary" features (rear view camera, etc.).

I would get the most economical car that fits one's needs. Supporting a $1000 to $2000 car mechanically sounds nice at first but IMO may not always be worth it, and can get expensive even if its Japanese...

PL


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## veery (Feb 25, 2015)

Maybe you are young enough that you feel it is OK to take some risk, but I recommend against it. $40k is not a lot of money, trust me. You will be moving out into the world and into the workforce and everything costs more than you expect - rent/housing, food, insurance, dating(?), and unless you are really in a class by yourself, you probably have some debt to manage.

So for now think "Would I rather be bored and be able to put some money away for a performance car, or go for it now and be excited and potentially broke." There are a ton of reliable and economical cars on the market which will get you from A to B and not add risk to your existence.

Of course, ultimately it is your choice, and you will only be young once.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

I am a card-carrying diesel fan... but.

Here in the U.S. the rare cool diesels are so expensive used that given the low fuel prices you will have difficulties making the money back. You need to take into account that your particular car might be terminated (accident, bored etc) at any given time.

In the case of the e90, which I like in principle, the diesel in the US also forces you to take the stupid ugly 4-door sedan. No way. Get a gasoline wagon or couple instead. But not in beige metallic.

Some things are not meant to be.


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## veery (Feb 25, 2015)

Squiddie said:


> I am a card-carrying diesel fan... but.
> 
> Here in the U.S. the rare cool diesels are so expensive used that given the low fuel prices you will have difficulties making the money back. You need to take into account that your particular car might be terminated (accident, bored etc) at any given time.
> 
> ...


I dunno, I and some other 3 series owners might take serious objection to that statement. You like the looks of the wagon?


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## JPKBMW (May 9, 2010)

335d and 65k miles could mean $2K to $3K of carbon build up cleaning. The car is the best I've owned regarding performance; however my '10 is in the shop now for CBU.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

JPKBMW said:


> 335d and 65k miles could mean $2K to $3K of carbon build up cleaning. The car is the best I've owned regarding performance; however my '10 is in the shop now for CBU.


If that's what you're paying, you need a new shop, as most people are paying only around $1200.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

floydarogers said:


> If that's what you're paying, you need a new shop, as most people are paying only around $1200.


Is $1200 a real quote from a BMW dealer? I heard > $2000 from a dealer here in Atlanta.


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## JPKBMW (May 9, 2010)

I searched for a local Indy shop that had previously CBU cleaned a 335d and would follow BMW Carbon Cleaning SI B 11 03 14 and BMW B110314_Preliminary_Work instructions. Viewing these documents one can appreciate that the effort is greater than $1,200. Also, the guidance advises the outsourcing of the Inlet Manifold to a "radiator shop" for cleaning; wasn't able to find an experienced service locally. I chose to purchase a new Manifold as part of my total cost.

I think BMW dropped the ball on this CBU issue and they should take responsibility for cleaning even after the 4 year/50K warranty.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

JPKBMW said:


> I think BMW dropped the ball on this CBU issue and they should take responsibility for cleaning even after the 4 year/50K warranty.


In my view, what BMW dropped the ball on is a ridiculously complex interwoven conspiracy of nonsense for nitwits in designing, marketing and selling the so-callrd "clean diesel," with a built-in self-destruct mechanism.


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## EMPTYKIM (Sep 24, 2013)

Have you been able to find a CPO 335d? That might help with the anxiety of CBU.

I bought my 2011 w/29k miles and it was CPO. Still had regular warranty and maintenance and also CPO to extend my warranty. Price was comparable to 335i given year/trim/mileage. In hindsight I'm 50/50 if I'd do it again. Knowing CBU is out there sucks.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

I think OP left the house and is buying an Acura. Thread closed.


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## askmax108 (Aug 11, 2015)

OP here. I've decided that I'll get the car once I'm making at least $50K/year. The TCO calculator on Edmunds lists the 5-year ownership cost as $50,000, and I'd feel comfortable spending 20% of my income on a car, but not more. And if I can't afford one right away, by the time I have a fair down payment saved up they might depreciate even more than they have already. The advice I've seen here has been pretty helpful, and when I do eventually pull the trigger, I'll be sure to show off pics.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

AskMax,

My first car was a 1968 BMW 1600. I was still in High School. The car was about 8-9 years old at the time and I think I was the 3rd or 4th owner. I loved driving that car, but, I couldn't afford to maintain it. It was a poor choice for me but you need to go for what you want and learn from your mistakes or learn from others.

I didn't buy another BMW until I could "afford" it and then I went new and ordered the way I wanted it.

When my oldest son graduated from High School I had planned to give him an old car I had, a Dodge Intrepid. It was completely unreliable and I just could not see sending him off to college with that headache, so we went to the local Mazda Dealer and got a new Mazda 3 for about $16k and he was a happy camper. That car lasted him four year of college without issue and then into his first year of work.

Now he had his own money and could afford the car he really wanted, so he traded in his Mazda 3 for a new Scion (a something coupe that is same as the BRZ?). He's done some mods to it like intake and exhaust, it has manual tranny, and he's happy. No major monthly payments, all well within the budget he determined he could afford.

Moral of the story is don't let your eyes spend money you don't really have.

I would not recommend the 355D (used) as a "starter" car for anyone just entering the labor market. If you can afford the monthly note buy a new car and forget about all the headaches, or look for a really good deal on a CPO. You don't want somebody else's headache. 

Best of luck and do let us know how it turns out.


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## askmax108 (Aug 11, 2015)

Thanks for all the advice, especially Flyingman. I probably won't get a 335d as a first/only car, but I might make it a second car while keeping a dirt-cheap but reliable beater so that breakdowns are not as urgent or catastrophic to fix. I still really want one, and I'm not writing it off forever, but I have to make sure I'm not putting myself in a position where I'd just have to sell my dream car and wind up underwater on a loan I can't afford. Thanks to everyone who chimed in; when I eventually get my bimmer, I'll be sure to show it off here!


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## tenwest (Aug 16, 2015)

I am a (somewhat) recent college grad. Atleast I feel like I am. And I make the recent-college-grad salary of (almost) 40k.

I have surpemely amazing credit, rolled the dice and financed a (from what I could tell) verygood condition used 335d.

My payments are under 250$/mo. You live in Arizona which I imagine rent and cost of living is cheap.
If you are an enthusiast, and can do some of your own work (oil changes, brakes, 'easy stuff'), i'd pull the trigger----AFTER you get a job!

Had to forgo many options (fully loaded ones were priced 23k and up), but I didnt buy this car for luxury.

And also, I do have a second car -- which used to seem like my pricey weekend car, until i bought a BMW lol. Would definitely recommend having a corolla/civic beater for the quick errands and downtime..

Just sharing my experience.


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## Hill (Jul 16, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> AskMax,
> 
> we went to the local Mazda Dealer and got a new Mazda 3 for about $16k and he was a happy camper. That car lasted him four year of college without issue and then into his first year of work.
> 
> ...


The Mazda 3 is a seriously good looking and fun car to drive, and it delivers 30+ mpg all the time. Most owners report ZERO issues. Flyingman's boy's choice of followup Scion is a racecar in street clothing. Track days, AutoX - all the really fun stuff is what the car excells at (as does it's Subaru 'brother' - they're often call "The Twins" by enthusiasts) These cars can open up a whole world of car and driving learning/fun that may well turn out to be a lifetime hobby and thrill.

I think coming out of school feeling like you've accomplished a monumental thing (you have, but it's only the beginning, a preparation for more and higher goals) deserving of the sort of visible statement of your worth that you may feel a BMW fullfills is WAY wrong thinking. Nobody cares what you drive - some care what you do now that you're entering the real world.

So get a car that's a blast to own and is as reliable as anything made (That's what Japanese cars are), not some massive yoke of potential and real problems that will most likely drag you down into disapointment and feelings of worthlessness because you can't yet find a way to shrug off such things financially. With a BMW you could well be setting out a virtual anchor that will burden you in everything you do, or every chance you might want to take in seeking your path to real success.


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## whatnxt (Apr 10, 2011)

Why a diesel? If your work drive is short, that is not good for diesels. Need to look at your daily and weekend drives. A gasser may be better in some cases.

If reliability is a concern, look at a CPO. 2 years or 50K miles beyond the standard warranty from BMW. Yeah, cost you about $2,500 above non-CPO but give you a little better piece of mind.

Not that it hasn't been stated before, a lease might be a better option. If your life style/ work changes, just turn it in (early turn-in penalty may apply). Also, leases are not considered a liability for credit applications.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

On second thought, a really good deal on a second hand 335D, from an unhappy prior owner, obtained at a steal of a price cause nobody wants to deal with it's issues, then do the full EGR/DPF/SCR delete and Carbon Clean, plus a tune, and you just might have something to toot your horn about.:thumbup:

But you have to be willing to stick it out and find out who and where you can get this done.:thumbup:


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## vetaldj (Feb 5, 2011)

If I would be you, as a college student, I would take diesel VW Golf any time. With money you are looking for it can be almost new or 1-2 year old.

At least give it a try. And you will not be scary of expensive repairs  I think they even have manual...


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## BR328 (Apr 9, 2007)

Ok I can't believe what I just read on this thread especially on a BMW forum. When did everyone get so practical. 

Look you have plenty of earning years ahead.... Go drive the car and if you like how it drives ....and you will, go for it. Plus it's a much safer car IMO that those other more reliable ones.... You might even save on insurance ( I know I did when I went from an Accord)

You have a couple of options - For peace of mind, I would recommend you find one with a few months on original warranty and go ahead and buy a Gold extended warranty before the original warranty expires. The other option is to take chance with a low mileage one and just save a few bucks for future service. Or maybe a higher mileage one that has an extended warranty.

In either case, make sure you get the service records from the dealership. Get a mechanic to look it over before you buy. Look at the BMW CCA classifieds - those people usually take care of their cars. 

Don't forget to negotiate like a madman!!!!


I hope in 20 years you're posting on Bimmerfest about your first BMW.


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## robster10 (Oct 8, 2012)

vetaldj said:


> If I would be you, as a college student, I would take diesel VW Golf any time. With money you are looking for it can be almost new or 1-2 year old.
> 
> At least give it a try. And you will not be scary of expensive repairs  I think they even have manual...[/QUOT Well your choices just got slimmer as of late since you'd be hard pressed buying a VW diesel now!:bigpimp:


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## Addicted2Torque (Mar 3, 2010)

I thought the community provided excellent balanced advice to the young man and FUTURE BMW enthusiast!


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