# May Residuals and Incentives?



## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Ninong said:


> He can keep the March program by signing the lease contract on May 31 for his June 13 pickup at the Welt.


Thanks Ninong for catching that!

:thumbup:


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> Thanks Ninong for catching that!
> 
> :thumbup:


Yeh. Appreciate it. Unfortunately given I head off back to work (Egypt) on the 16th I am going to have to wrap all this up by the end of next week. Doh!


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

turpiwa said:


> Thanks Ninong - actually I am purchasing through a Florida dealer - but will be interesting to know that info about Galveston.


Holy cow! Florida? Really? Wow! How did that happen? 

So you're going to pick it up in Florida or at the Performance Center?

Yes, Galveston is open now. So all of the Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Arkansas dealers will be getting their cars through there. I was just wondering in that includes ED cars, too. They have to go through the complete U.S. Customs/Dept. of Agriculture stuff over here since the customer had the use of them in Europe before they were exported. The other cars straight out of the factory are pre-cleared over there.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

turpiwa said:


> Yeh. Appreciate it. Unfortunately given I head off back to work (Egypt) on the 16th I am going to have to wrap all this up by the end of next week. Doh!


Did you discuss that with your client advisor? How are they going to handle that? Did they agree to date your contract May 31? Just curious. I'm NOT saying they should do that, just asking. I'm not saying what's legal and what's not, just asking if you asked them how they intend to accommodate you on that. I know what I would do but I'm not saying they should do that. That's up to their GSM or whoever has to approve that.



P.S. -- I still believe you are better off taking the $1,500 lease credit instead of April's residuals.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Wait a minute, if the dealer is in Florida, then are you going there to sign or are they FedEx'ing the paperwork to you in Houston? Anyway, ask them what date they intend to put on the lease contract.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Glad I pushed to do my deal in April.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Ninong said:


> Wait a minute, if the dealer is in Florida, then are you going there to sign or are they FedEx'ing the paperwork to you in Houston? Anyway, ask them what date they intend to put on the lease contract.


Fedexing. Yes I am going to have to discuss that.


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## Djgfuq50 (Jan 31, 2013)

Im in Florida looking to lease. What dealer did you use in Florida?


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Djgfuq50 said:


> Im in Florida looking to lease. What dealer did you use in Florida?


Brendan from Fields of Daytona Beach.


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## dima123 (Jul 7, 2005)

good thing I picked my car up in April. The payment went up about $25 for may!


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## malenky77 (Apr 24, 2013)

On Monday night I have picked up a nicely loaded brand new 2016 X3 2.8xi. 
Sapphire Black Metallic, black Nevada leather, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP (Xenon), ZPP, 5DL (Surround View), 609 and Harman Kardon.

MSRP $52,070.00
Invoice $48,400.00
Price $46,549.30 according to the lease agreement. I used $46,600.00 to match the monthly payment

MF 0.00086. Residual 60% for 12K miles per year.

$1000 loyalty credit.
$1869 out of pocket ($497 + $250 Plates + $169 Doc Fee + $925 Acquisition Fee + $28 Taxes / other fees). 
Transferred 7 MSDs from the car I turned in (they didn't buy it, there is no equity in the car).

Monthly payment: $497.26 including 7% tax.

Granted, it was last day of the month and I picked the last car they sold in April, how did they make money on me?:dunno:


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

malenky77 said:


> Granted, it was last day of the month and I picked the last car they sold in April, how did they make money on me?:dunno:


Who cares, right? 

That $1,000 loyalty credit went bye-bye to Loyalty Credit Heaven at midnight that night never to be seen or heard of again. At least until the next time they have one. 

Did you work this deal with them on the last day of the month? Just curious? Thanks.


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## StitchesToo (Apr 29, 2016)

Ninong said:


> Who cares, right?


I care. I want to know how to get a deal like that!


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

StitchesToo said:


> I care. I want to know how to get a deal like that!


Sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Notice that the OP said he did this on the last day of the month. It doesn't have to make sense to us if it made sense to the person approving the deal at the time. And maybe it had little to do with that individual deal itself. We won't know that because we aren't that guy... the one who took this deal on the last day of the month. I'm not talking about the client advisor.


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## highflying (Sep 8, 2012)

Though likely terrible, anyone happen to know what the residuals are for the M2?


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Ninong said:


> Sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place at the right time. Notice that the OP said he did this on the last day of the month. It doesn't have to make sense to us if it made sense to the person approving the deal at the time. And maybe it had little to do with that individual deal itself. We won't know that because we aren't that guy... the one who took this deal on the last day of the month. I'm not talking about the client advisor.


Written by someone who knows and has been there. :thumbup:

Could be anything: a regional stair-step program and they needed one more unit; they hit their stair-step and they had extra $ per unit. Sometimes the Regional Marketing Manager will offer conquest cash. It could be just a true loss deal to hit a goal, especially if it's a "corporate" dealer like a Lithia, AutoNation, or Penske store.

Either way, it does a couple things: it drives retail prices down so that the "averages" you see on TrueCar and Edmunds get lower, and it makes all of us think the same thing, "How do I get that dea!?"

~M~


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> Written by someone who knows and has been there. :thumbup:
> 
> Could be anything: a regional stair-step program and they needed one more unit; they hit their stair-step and they had extra $ per unit. Sometimes the Regional Marketing Manager will offer conquest cash. It could be just a true loss deal to hit a goal, especially if it's a "corporate" dealer like a Lithia, AutoNation, or Penske store.
> 
> ...


Yep,

The main issue is, in the past no one knew about deals like this except the person who negotiated them (dealer), the customer, and that customers friends. The customer probably also embellished it, and his friends didnt really believe him.

NOW, you get a forum like this, and Many, Many people see it. The main issue is that there are plenty of people who will see this, and think that a deal like that is "the norm" and that if they DONT get a deal like that, the dealer is ripping them off.


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## malenky77 (Apr 24, 2013)

This WAS a corporate dealership.
I was shopping at another dealership and they had the same car with Chocolate interior that I wanted more than black, so I wanted to play one place vs. the other since I knew I had access to two cars nearby. The car with Chocolate interior was offered to me at an even better deal of $1700 out of pocket + MSDs and $497 a month. They told me they have some money on this car and needed to get rid of it quickly.
I have offered the deal to place I got a car with Black interior on Friday and they laughed in my face and told me to beat it. They said this kind of monthly payment required $3500 out of pocket + MSD's.
So on Saturday I went to the other place to make a deal for a car with Chocolate interior and they said my lease return had damage to the bumper they were not prepared to appraise (I was willing to pay $400 for the Large for the panel and that is what I ended up paying for at the other place). 
They said you need to get an independent appraisal and since Monday is the last day of the month, you can just pick the new car and deal with a lease return at a later day. I said no, understanding that I can still do that on Monday and I drove to the other dealership assuming they will come down with the price as this was the last Saturday of the month and they will be busy making deliveries on Monday. 
Guess what - they laughed in my face again and said I'm foolish to offer this little money for such a car BUT they came down from $3500 out of pocket to $2750 and told me to take it or beat it again. I was told that I am not shopping at a KIA dealership :thumbdwn: So I left 
Guess what - on Monday early afternoon after there was no resolution at a place with Chocolate interior I texted the guy with the car with black interior and said my offer of $1700 + MSDs is still good for a pickup today and he immediately came back saying it is fine if I also pay $169 'Doc' fee to which I reluctantly agreed to.
Having access to this forum and other internet resources and leaving in a Tri-State area, having more than 20 dealerships within easy reach and willing to invest some time into this, awesome deals can be made last day or two of the month!:thumbup:


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## psymon (Sep 20, 2002)

was this in northern NJ?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> Either way, it does a couple things: it drives retail prices down so that the "averages" you see on TrueCar and Edmunds get lower, and it makes all of us think the same thing, "How do I get that dea!?"


You just raised an interesting point and actually one that your corporation is partly responsible for by allowing them Internet access to all of your files. They don't distinguish net gross on those phantom Specialty 8 Demo Status cars from cars without that secret credit. So that makes them think that a Spec 8 deal was sold at a loss, when it really wasn't. And I believe you guys kissed and made up with them and they're pulling your raw data once again, right? That's how they get their numbers, from certain chains that allow them access. And maybe from certain individuals who are being paid to feed them everything they get from the manufacturer as soon as they get it. That used to happen, too.

I can't say how your individual stores are run because I know your group headquarters gives each location full autonomy but I would be really surprised if your managers, at least those higher up in both sales and service, aren't compensated in one way or another based on AVP when it comes it and, as you know, those bonuses can sometimes go up substantially even after they hit their initial number. And that's more or less what must have happened to the OP. Maybe it did, maybe not. I know that sometimes, depending on the circumstances, I would tell all of them to take anything and everything that weekend and don't let anybody walk even if you had to run after them and pull them back by hand kicking and screaming. Okay, not literally. :angel:


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## socal59 (Oct 24, 2004)

malenky77 said:


> On Monday night I have picked up a nicely loaded brand new 2016 X3 2.8xi.
> 
> Sapphire Black Metallic, black Nevada leather, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP (Xenon), ZPP, 5DL (Surround View), 609 and Harman Kardon.
> 
> ...


Am I missing something, this looks like an average deal to me. About 9% off MSRP, is what I've read hundreds of times on this forum. Base MF w MSD's and loyalty as many use.


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## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

socal59 said:


> Am I missing something, this looks like an average deal to me. About 9% off MSRP, is what I've read hundreds of times on this forum. Base MF w MSD's and loyalty as many use.


To me, it looks like its about 1K *under* invoice, BEFORE any incentives (2k under after incentives) and at base money factor, and low fees too. Its also on the popular X series of cars, that dont have much money thrown at them by BMW.

The only way a dealer made money on that deal is with back end money / sales targets etc... at least thats what it looks like to me.


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## socal59 (Oct 24, 2004)

Any word out on X5 numbers? .00138 ? What are the residuals for 36/15 ?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

socal59 said:


> Any word out on X5 numbers? .00138 ? What are the residuals for 36/15 ?


57% for May and June. Yes, that's lower than last month.


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## saranr (Dec 22, 2006)

Is 57% only for May or June also?

Am I to assume the June incentive will be similar to May then?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Ninong said:


> 57% for May *and* June. Yes, that's lower than last month.





saranr said:


> Is 57% only for May or June also?
> 
> Am I to assume the June incentive will be similar to May then?


Yes, May and June are the same program. The next change will be July 1, 2016.


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## malenky77 (Apr 24, 2013)

socal59 said:


> Am I missing something, this looks like an average deal to me. About 9% off MSRP, is what I've read hundreds of times on this forum. Base MF w MSD's and loyalty as many use.


10.5% off MSRP is NOT about 9% off MSRP


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

malenky77 said:


> Having access to this forum and other internet resources and leaving in a Tri-State area, having more than 20 dealerships within easy reach and willing to invest some time into this, awesome deals can be made last day or two of the month!:thumbup:


If you were a prospect, I'da been :banghead:, but as a 'Fest member, :thumbup: right back at ya! :roundel:

~M~


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Ninong said:


> You just raised an interesting point ... They don't distinguish net gross on those phantom Specialty 8 Demo Status cars from cars without that secret credit. So that makes them think that a Spec 8 deal was sold at a loss, when it really wasn't.


 Or that the same can be expected on a car that is 5 days in stock.



Ninong said:


> And I believe you guys kissed and made up with them and they're pulling your raw data once again, right?


 We (Lithia) didn't drop out. AutoNation did and now they are back on board.



Ninong said:


> I can't say how your individual stores are run because I know your group headquarters gives each location full autonomy but I would be really surprised if your managers, at least those higher up in both sales and service, aren't compensated in one way or another based on AVP when it comes in ...


 Probably true ... would love to some day be on the receiving end of that AVP rainbow.



Ninong said:


> I know that sometimes, depending on the circumstances, I would tell all of them to take anything and everything that weekend...


Yes, that's the "What do you mean you let them walk? Touch the desk first! Go call them right now!" conversation SM to CA!

~M~


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## socal59 (Oct 24, 2004)

malenky77 said:


> 10.5% off MSRP is NOT about 9% off MSRP


I was using negotiated price, NOT including loyalty.


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## socal59 (Oct 24, 2004)

Ninong said:


> 57% for May and June. Yes, that's lower than last month.


Thanks Ninong. I guess I'll keep driving my 13 MY X5, for a few more months to see if anything better comes up. Sometimes, lease end timing does not correspond with great deals


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## StitchesToo (Apr 29, 2016)

Ninong said:


> Yes, May and June are the same program. The next change will be July 1, 2016.


Thank you for this great info. I didn't realize the programs did not change monthly. When you say the program is the same for June, does that mean no new incentives too? No loyalty or such?


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## StitchesToo (Apr 29, 2016)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> Or that the same can be expected on a car that is 5 days in stock.
> ....
> 
> ~M~


What's that?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

StitchesToo said:


> Thank you for this great info. I didn't realize the programs did not change monthly. When you say the program is the same for June, does that mean no new incentives too? No loyalty or such?


In recent years, BMW Financial Services has had a tendency to change programs monthly but every now and then they will make the program good for two months. Sometimes November and December are the same. When they do that, it means that everything stays the same until the expiration date of that program. That includes all the other benefits, unless, of course, they choose to "enhance" the program mid-stream like they did for Owner Loyalty early this year when they decided to "enhance" it to allow for an upfront cash option instead of the separate cash credits against the first two payments.

So, in general, whatever date they decide to call the expiration date, is the date that everything is good through. They won't pull anything out of there.


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

Ninong said:


> In recent years, BMW Financial Services has had a tendency to change programs monthly but every now and then they will make the program good for two months. Sometimes November and December are the same. When they do that, it means that everything stays the same until the expiration date of that program. That includes all the other benefits, unless, of course, they choose to "enhance" the program mid-stream like they did for Owner Loyalty early this year when they decided to "enhance" it to allow for an upfront cash option instead of the separate cash credits against the first two payments.
> 
> So, in general, whatever date they decide to call the expiration date, is the date that everything is good through. They won't pull anything out of there.


And, just to make things maddening, they have done mid-term updates. They offer a 2 month program, and then come the beginning of the 2nd month they will change it. You're still locked into month 1 with an application, but the "new" month 2 is it's own program.

Yeah ... a fun time had by all.

~M~


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Michael @ BMW Seattle said:


> And, just to make things maddening, they have done mid-term updates. They offer a 2 month program, and then come the beginning of the 2nd month they will change it. You're still locked into month 1 with an application, but the "new" month 2 is it's own program.
> 
> Yeah ... a fun time had by all.
> 
> ~M~


And that is exactly what I predict will happen to you guys with the current "Toolkit." Remember, it has an expiration date of June 30 but since it's a factory-to-dealer program and not an advertised factory-to-customer program they can pull the rug out from under you any time they feel like it by replacing it with something more realistic. Maybe that's one of the reasons they don't want ordered cars? Besides, you have to deliver the car before June 30 according to your current instructions. Nothing is written in stone unless it is advertised publicly. Unless they have changed their ways.

Nothing BMW and Mercedes are offering right now makes sense long-term because too many customers are coming in trying to get replacement transportation or trade in their Takata airbag cars that can't be fixed. I haven't tried to find out what the others are doing because I'm really not interested in them. I'm only interested in BMW but I usually check Mercedes whenever I think of BMW's natural enemy.


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## StitchesToo (Apr 29, 2016)

Thank you Ninong and Michael. 

what's the Toolkit?


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## Michael @ BMW Seattle (Mar 5, 2016)

StitchesToo said:


> Thank you Ninong and Michael.
> 
> what's the Toolkit?


Please see the Airbag Recall Threads for details! It's the program BMW has put together for customer response to the airbag recall.

~M~


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

StitchesToo said:


> What's that?


What he meant by that comment is that the dealer is not desperate to unload a car that just came in and has only been in his inventory for 5 days but he may be desperate to unload cars that have been in his inventory a couple of months or more because dealers have to pay interest on the cost of all those cars, assuming they don't pay cash for them straight to BMWNA themselves like some dealers do if they're flush with cash.

Most dealers have a credit account (used to be called "flooring") and the cost of the invoice is added to that account, probably still three weeks after being invoiced. They can either pay for the car in full themselves before the expiration of that free period or they can finance it through BMWFS or their own local bank.

Remember, you can always run a car's VIN through the online BMW VIN decoder to find out everything about it, including not only every option on it but also the date and place of manufacture. http://bimmer.work/ Don't forget to click "I'm not a robot."

Maybe you aren't interested in a car that has been sitting there for 9 months or maybe you are because you know they're desperate to unload it. Personally, I wouldn't understand why they would still have a new car in stock that long but some dealers are stupid.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

StitchesToo said:


> Thank you Ninong and Michael.
> 
> what's the Toolkit?


It's a confidential proprietary program of assistance from BMW of North America to their dealers to assist them financially in dealing with customers affected by the Takata airbag recall if parts are not available to fix the airbag.


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