# Golf GTI review



## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

It's not a BMW, but I have to wonder what this car is about. I'm curious to drive it.

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/article_1622.shtml


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

could be interesting, too bad they didnt give it a LSD. I like the engine


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

A four door GTI? With an auto trans... :tsk: 
Isnt that like a four door Dodge Charg....ohhh nevermind. (at least they are optional)

And must have leather to get sports seats. An oxymoron if ever there was one.


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

LmtdSlip said:


> A four door GTI? With an auto trans...


Basically, a rebadged A3.

Ed


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Ed328Ci said:


> Basically, a rebadged A3.
> 
> Ed


suspension and steering is supposed to be better. :dunno:


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

But it does offer a choice of DSG and manual. It also is coming in 2 and 4 doors.

I wonder if it'll rattle.



Jeff_DML said:


> could be interesting, too bad they didnt give it a LSD. I like the engine


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> suspension and steering is supposed to be better. :dunno:


Oh. Looks better too. I hope it gets the Jetta GLi steering wheel! When will the 4 door GTi be here? The truth is, I wouldn't mind a chipped GLi as a replacement for my 328Ci. Wonder how well it handles when chipped. Would torque steer be an issue?

Ed


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

I wonder if it's really any different the current GLI.



Jeff_DML said:


> suspension and steering is supposed to be better. :dunno:


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Ed328Ci said:


> Oh. Looks better too. I hope it gets the Jetta GLi steering wheel! When will the 4 door GTi be here? The truth is, I wouldn't mind a chipped GLi as a replacement for my 328Ci. Wonder how well it handles when chipped. Would torque steer be an issue?
> 
> Ed


here is the wheel










I would assume torque steer would be a problem chipped even if it has fancy front suspension, think the chipped 2.0T are gettting close to 300 ft/lbs of torque.

check out these torque numbers from a chip, can you guess the car?  it is not fwd

Stage 1 91 oct Stage 1 for Stock Vehicles. 91 octane fuel. 255HP / 300 ft-lbs. 
Stage 2 91 oct Stage 2 using 91 octane fuel. Requires turboback exhaust. 280HP / 335 ft-lbs.


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> ...Stage 1 91 oct Stage 1 for Stock Vehicles. 91 octane fuel. 255HP / 300 ft-lbs.
> Stage 2 91 oct Stage 2 using 91 octane fuel. Requires turboback exhaust. 280HP / 335 ft-lbs.


WRX?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

LmtdSlip said:


> A four door GTI? With an auto trans... :tsk:


It doesn't have an automatic transmission. Did you read the review? The car has DSG...



> And must have leather to get sports seats. An oxymoron if ever there was one.


Uh, because there are so many cloth sport seats in BMWs over here?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Ed328Ci said:


> Oh. Looks better too. I hope it gets the Jetta GLi steering wheel! When will the 4 door GTi be here? The truth is, I wouldn't mind a chipped GLi as a replacement for my 328Ci. Wonder how well it handles when chipped. Would torque steer be an issue?
> 
> Ed


The GTI is one of the last cars on my list for replacing my BMW (only the possibility of a G35 replacement excites me more than this car).

The 4 GTI door is scheduled for June of 06. Top Gear freaking loves the GTI. That drew my interest as they tend to be picky but all the points made about the car are positive - decent style, handling, power, luxury-like appointments and low price (26-28k loaded).


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> It doesn't have an automatic transmission. Did you read the review? The car has DSG...


DSC is still essentially an automatic transmission. So yes I did read the article. Whats your point?



> Uh, because there are so many cloth sport seats in BMWs over here?


What does BMW have to do with it? :dunno:


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Ed328Ci said:


> WRX?


new 2.5T wrx :thumbup:

I am with blue, automatic == torque converter


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> new 2.5T wrx :thumbup:...


If only it isn't so ugly, or the Legacy, so plain looking.

Ed


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

LmtdSlip said:


> DSC is still essentially an automatic transmission. So yes I did read the article. Whats your point?


It's not in any fashion an automatic. You might want to call it that but the makeup of the device is far closer to a manual as it employs clutch(es). Automatics use torque converters and rob an engine of power. DSG improves engine performance over a standard manual for _most_ drivers. I can't shift nearly as quickly as a DSG drops or raises gears.



> What does BMW have to do with it? :dunno:


BMW sport seats only come with leatherette or leather...thus is that an oxymoron too?


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The GTI is one of the last cars on my list for replacing my BMW (only the possibility of a G35 replacement excites me more than this car).
> 
> The 4 GTI door is scheduled for June of 06. Top Gear freaking loves the GTI. That drew my interest as they tend to be picky but all the points made about the car are positive - decent style, handling, power, luxury-like appointments and low price (26-28k loaded).


You WILL get the E90. Shop all you like, but you WILL get the E90.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The GTI is one of the last cars on my list for replacing my BMW (only the possibility of a G35 replacement excites me more than this car).
> 
> The 4 GTI door is scheduled for June of 06. Top Gear freaking loves the GTI. That drew my interest as they tend to be picky but all the points made about the car are positive - decent style, handling, power, luxury-like appointments and low price (26-28k loaded).


EVO magazine also loves the GTI, they gave it 5 stars I believe - a true successor to the original GTI. And EVO didn't like the last gen GTI at all.

It supposedly drives a lot sportier than the A3, which is no slouch itself.


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## piku (Mar 26, 2003)

According to the dyno tests run by the VWVortex staff, VW has underrated the GLI/GTI motor. 
"Stock our GLI is putting out just under 200hp."

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2319239

I am looking forward for the 4 door GTI.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> It's not in any fashion an automatic. You might want to call it that but the makeup of the device is far closer to a manual as it employs clutch(es). Automatics use torque converters and rob an engine of power. DSG improves engine performance over a standard manual for _most_ drivers. I can't shift nearly as quickly as a DSG drops or raises gears.
> 
> BMW sport seats only come with leatherette or leather...thus is that an oxymoron too?


Yes.


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Just wonder if it isn't really the same setup as the Jetti GLI minus the trunk.



swchang said:


> You WILL get the E90. Shop all you like, but you WILL get the E90.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

swchang said:


> You WILL get the E90. Shop all you like, but you WILL get the E90.


Not unless it's a 335i with a turbo.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Not unless it's a 335i with a turbo.


My offer to bet a steak dinner is still on the table...


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

swchang said:


> My offer to bet a steak dinner is still on the table...


So I'm going to bet you that I _won't_ end up with an e90 325i or 330i?


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> So I'm going to bet you that I _won't_ end up with an e90 325i or 330i?


No, the bet is if you get an E90/new BMW 3-series, you buy me dinner. If you don't (i.e., Golf, GTI, Mazda3/6), I'll pony up.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

swchang said:


> No, the bet is if you get an E90/new BMW 3-series, you buy me dinner. If you don't (i.e., Golf, GTI, Mazda3/6), I'll pony up.


I picked up my e90 and I owe you a steak dinner. PM me with your info and I'll get a gift card sent out to you.

:thumbup:


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> I picked up my e90 and I owe you a steak dinner...


I got an E90 as well. :thumbup:


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## Excitmnt94 (Jun 6, 2006)

ok...

some answers to these questions...

1...is the GTI the same as the GLI? 
A...yes. for the most part they have virtually the same set up. They have the same engine/ tranny choices / option packages / level of equipment. the GLI is for someone who cannot or does not want a hatchback. Four doors is another advantage the GLI has over the currently available GTI, however the 4 door will solve that issue. The GLI starts around 2,000 more than the GTI.

2...is the 2.0T under-rated?
A...yes. VW is notorious for under-rating its turbocharged engines. my '03 GTI 1.8T is only supposed to make 180HP and 175TQ, yet it put down 178HP and 184TQ to the wheels. The new 2.0T is making more power and torque than VW claims as well.

3...is the GTI a rebadged A3?
A...kind of. The A3 is more for the driver who is concerned with luxury and an overall feeling of refinement. The GTI doesn't lack in these areas, but it is more aggressive in its appearance and tuned to be a much sportier driving experience. the suspension is stiffer and allows handling that makes the A3 look sloppy by comparison.

4...torque steer...is it an issue when chipped?
A...i am going to go out on a limb here and say somewhat. there is virtually none as it sits stock, putting about around 220 HP, 230TQ. once the car is chipped it is making around 255HP and 300TQ. anything FWD with that kind of power is going to be interesting, even with the advanced suspension tuning.

5...are sports seats only with leather?
A...no. the base GTI and GLI both come with interlagos cloth and sports seats. they have thick side bolsters and are very nice. the upgraded top sport seats trimmed in leather are nicer, but the base model comes with sports seats as well.

6….why is the new MKV GTI so much better than the old MKIV?
A…many things, one of them being and independent rear suspension. My car still has the solid beam rear axle. Not so good for very aggressive driving, but fine most of the time. The technology employed by the 2.0T virtually eliminates turbo lag. You just mash and go…but you still hear the nice turbo whistling. The car is also a lot more refined and feels much more solid due to laser welding. This has improved the torsional rigidity many fold. The ride is better both around town and when you push it…great compromise.

7….what is DSG?
A…DSG is VW/Audi’s direct shift gearbox. It uses 2 clutches instead of a torque converter. When you are in first gear accelerating the primary clutch is engaged and the secondary clutch has second gear pre-engaged. When you press the paddle shifter behind that super thick steering wheel, it instantly engages the next gear smoother and faster than any human being can. It is also a lot smoother and faster than SMG. When you downshift using the left paddle shifter it basically does the same thing…just in reverse. It also rev matches your downshifts for you. The technology is so effective that magazines are now remarking that “company A needs to have a semi-automatic like VW/Audi group.”


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

*Okay, but does it rattle?*

Okay last question, and this is a biggie:

DOES IT DEVELOP RATTLES??

The two GTIs I test drove were pretty tight, but VWVortex people are complain quite a bit about dashboard and vent rattles, and those are almost impossible to eliminate. Plus, I don't sense that VW is going to be quite as committed as BMW to solving these issues.



Excitmnt94 said:


> ok...
> 
> some answers to these questions...
> 
> ...


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## Excitmnt94 (Jun 6, 2006)

man...just saw your response now...
sorry about the delay.

the new cars are built so much better than the old ones. my GTI was built in Brazil, a great car and very well put together for its time. i just developed my first and only rattle about 5k ago and the dealership checked it out and said they would fix it up under warranty. i never did this because...i don't know...its not really that annoying. i am usually so focused on hearing the turbo spool and the diverter valve actuate that i don't even hear the rattle except on long highway trips...and those are infrequent. 

anywho, the new Mark V bodies are laser welded. all of the rigidity stats are way up and the car just feels so much more solid overall. the new GTI's are built in germany as well, something purists like. all of the new VW's (jetta / passat / GTI...and soon eos) just feel so much richer and much more like audi's. our 2006 passat 2.0T feels more solid than our previous '03 A4 1.8T...so VW is definatly making huge strides as far as refinement.

as far as rattles, i haven't experienced any on our testers, then again we only have them for a few hundred miles. the only thing i have heard about ratting is the indirect ventilation outlet on the top of the dash.


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## jackie (May 11, 2005)

RobertA said:


> DOES IT DEVELOP RATTLES??


I'm a dedicated BMW owner, but my husband loves his VW's. Our kid turned 16 in February and inherited Dad's 2000 Golf 1.8T 5 speed, and my husband bought himself a new MKV GTI after considering a number of others cars. He test drove a DSG, but didn't like it, so went with the six speed. He's really happy with his choice...peppy, fun-to-drive, and no turbo lag. There are no rattles so far, though the 2000 certainly has a few. My favorite part is the "Fast" that they mailed him to ride along with him in the car.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

I drove a friend's new GTI w/ DSG.

Very impressive, I can't believe it's a $22k car, half the price of my 330. Cause it feels like 90% of a 330. 

Sure my ZHP sounds more raw, has slightly more comfortable (but less aggressive) seats, and the steering feel is less corrupted, but otherwise the GTI would be a great alternative in 4 doors. 

I was also impressed by the DSG, brilliant. I'd still take a manual, but only cause it keeps my left foot and right hand from getting bored. Who knows what my right hand might start doing if it got bored?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> I drove a friend's new GTI w/ DSG.
> 
> Very impressive, I can't believe it's a $22k car, half the price of my 330. Cause it feels like 90% of a 330.
> 
> ...


interesting. the excessive body roll in corners didn't bother you?


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> interesting. the excessive body roll in corners didn't bother you?


It wasn't that kind of test drive.  But body roll doesn't bother me generally, it's a $200 fix.


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## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> It wasn't that kind of test drive.  But body roll doesn't bother me generally, it's a $200 fix.


I drove the VW GTI in California and drove it here in Taiwan. Taiwan gets the EURO Spec. version. I found that the GTI I tested in Taiwan handled and performed a little better then the one I test drove in California. Not too geat of a difference. It did sit lower though then the California version GTI. The DSG in my opinion works better then the SMG which is why BMW was supposedly in the works of working soemthing out with VW about this new DSG system:dunno: The VW GTI is definitely a fun car to drive around, especially in the city. One great thing about them is the air-conditioner. VW has some of the best air-conditioners around in their cars. Much better then what comes in our BMW'S..


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

stylinexpat said:


> I drove the VW GTI in California and drove it here in Taiwan. Taiwan gets the EURO Spec. version. I found that the GTI I tested in Taiwan handled and performed a little better then the one I test drove in California. Not too geat of a difference. It did sit lower though then the California version GTI. The DSG in my opinion works better then the SMG which is why BMW was supposedly in the works of working soemthing out with VW about this new DSG system:dunno: The VW GTI is definitely a fun car to drive around, especially in the city. One great thing about them is the air-conditioner. VW has some of the best air-conditioners around in their cars. Much better then what comes in our BMW'S..


I've never really had a problem with the A/C in my car. I think it does a pretty good job of keeping temps stable. MB's A/C units don't seem quite as good, and the Hondas I've been in are even worse, although those models were 2001 and earlier and non-automatic.


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