# Lori: Where'd your Imola Red Leather Question go?



## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Lori - did you delete your query?
:dunno:

Looks like you can get it!


_______________________________________________
Subj: RE: Special Order 3-Series
Date:	10/21/02 7:54:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time
From:	[email protected]
To:	[email protected]

It looks like it is...
Retail- $3,880.00

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 7:35 AM
To: xxxxxxx, John
Subject: Re: Special Order 3-Series

Hey John,

Quick question: is Imola Red leather available as a special order interior
for a 330i sedan, or a 330Ci coupe? If so, how much$$??

Thanks in advance,
--Jon Shafer, General Sales Manager - Cutter BMW #77996


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

$3,880! :yikes:


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Really I can get it. I deleted the question because I thought I may be flogging a dead horse, but really I can get it. Then I want it. what do I have to do to get my dealer to get it for me? Is it going to cause a build delay?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Lori said:


> *Really I can get it. I deleted the question because I though I may be flogging a dead horse but really I can get it. Then I want it. what do I have to do to get my dealer to get it for me? Is it going to cause a build delay? *


All special orders cause a delay in production....



Lori, just tell your dealer that you want it;
they'll know what to do (at least they should).


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Jon,
Is that price in addition to the $1450 for leather or is it the total. Also have you heard anything more about the club sport package for U.S. cars? Like when it will be available. I am also considering an M3 however I am a little concerned about the tempermental nature of the car. I like the way it handles but I really don't need all that power. The 330ci I drove had a fair amount of body roll and the M3 is really tight. I don't really want to mod my car. Iwould really like a 330ci that handles like an M but has the reliabilty of a 330ci. That sounds like the club sport package to me.
Thanks for your help.
-Lori


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Lori,

Club Sport is unfortunately not an option in the USA...



As far as the leather goes, I am assuming that is the 
total charge.

I'll let you know if I hear otherwise...


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Jon Shafer said:


> *All special orders cause a delay in production....
> 
> *


At least six weeks  (that's what I've been told)


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Jon,
Is an M3 too high strung to drive on a daily basis. I have a Grand Marquis for really bad (weather) days and when I need to drive alot of people around but it just seems like a shame to own an M3 and only drive it on Sundays. What do you think about the reliability of the M3?


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> *
> 
> At least six weeks  (that's what I've been told) *


Or ~ 126 Prozac :eeps:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

PM 325xiT said:


> *Or ~ *


..and


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

What the heck it that supposed to mean?


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> *
> 
> ..and  *


I would say 2 blondes but I do not wish to take Lori's thread off topic 

I think an M3 would hold up as a daily driver, yes it is "strung" a little tighter but per aty it is ok as a driver but as a daily passenger it might get to you after a while.


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

Lori said:


> *What the heck it that supposed to mean? *


I apologize Lori, but as Mr. Baumann has been waiting for *MONTHS* for his individual Alpina it has become a standing joke that his dependence on Prozac has increased over the same time period.

As Alex noted it would add about 6 weeks to your order.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Lori said:


> *Jon,
> Is an M3 too high strung to drive on a daily basis. I have a Grand Marquis for really bad (weather) days and when I need to drive alot of people around but it just seems like a shame to own an M3 and only drive it on Sundays. What do you think about the reliability of the M3? *


Lori...

My $.02 - you don't need an M3 to drive around
with the patented "Silly-Ass Grin" on your face;
a 330Ci, or even a 325Ci will do.

:yikes:


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Well I may be needing the prozac myself if I don't get my car soon. Alocations, special orders, facelifts, Why don't the dealers just get a bunch of nicely equiped (as opposed to bland looking) cars for thier lots and then I would just buy one off the lot. They are all steptronic with grey leather around here. Not that either one is a bad thing I just think the selection on the lot could be better. I change my mind too often to order a car without putting my dealer through hell. And by the time I order all the special colors and options and then install the other OEM mods I might as well get an M3. Ya know?
-Lori


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

I definately like the looks of the 330ci better than the M3.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Lori said:


> *I definately like the looks of the 330ci better than the M3. *


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

By that I mean to say that I like the 18" wheels on the 330ci and I don't care for the hood bulge on the M3. I do like the gills on the M3 though. Alot!


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

As far as M3s being high strung, haven' they developed a problem with fragging engines. I mean it would be really annoying to have your new $50K+ car throw a piston or two through the hood.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

MikeW said:


> *As far as M3s being high strung, haven' they developed a problem with fragging engines. I mean it would be really annoying to have your new $50K+ car throw a piston or two through the hood. *


Or blow an oil gasket on a $80K+ car. Happens on Porsches ALL THE TIME. :dunno:

And I really hate to be driving something like a Ferrari F50 or even the Enzo around... 

Back to the business on hand, BMW has managed to replace nearly every single engine that spun a bearing or blew a rod that does not show clear signs of abuse. I don't see what the big problem/deal is. :thumbup:


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

So, If I were to buy an M3 and drive it every day like I drive a normal car and the engine fragged (if I may borrow your term) itself BMW would replace it for free. If this is the case then why don't more people just buy an M3 to begin with and then they wouldn't have to spend 10 or 15K or more modding thier 330ci to make it more like an M3? Is there something I am missing?
-Lori


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Lori said:


> *So, If I were to buy an M3 and drive it every day like I drive a normal car and the engine fragged (if I may borrow your term) itself BMW would replace it for free. If this is the case then why don't more people just buy an M3 to begin with and then they wouldn't have to spend 10 or 15K or more modding thier 330ci to make it more like an M3? Is there something I am missing?
> -Lori *


The M3 was VERY hard to get for a while which I sure discouraged a lot of people plus a lot of dealers wanted a big markup

Personally I love the M3 but feel the 330 is the perfect car for me which is why I went with a nother one.

The only thin I am not crazy about with my 330 is when i enter a turn and am in 2nd gear in my step, I wish the car pulled more in the lower rpm range . . . I am hoping the manual I am getting will change this


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Isn't waiting what ordering a BMW is all about? I don't know but it just seems like the M3 is so awsome why not go for it? I know it is alot of car but so are Corvettes and Roush Mustangs I used to own a Corvette and I considered a Roush Mustang but they don't have the style or the solid, well built feeling of the M3. When I drove an M3 I was amazed at the power at my disposal. Not that I would use it (all the power) very often I would like to drive it on a track though. The handling also felt superior to the 330ci albeit a bit rougher but hey, it's a sport car right? And I really like the way the M3 just takes off when you want it to. Does the 330ci give you that feeling without any mods?


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

The 330 is a quick car with a very good torquey engine which I find to be VERY important . . . the handling is incredible and I have never gotten to the point where I have reached the limit. 

I live in an area that has a lot of windy & twisty roads with a 30 mph zone but you could easily go 50-60 and really get into it with your car. The curves are excellent and when I get out of my car afterwards it is very exhilarating. I literally have a Smile on my face that doesn't go awy for quite a while (they don't call me donny for nothing  ).

I really find that the 330 is fast, handles incredibly and is the perfect car for me. I've had Corvette's and I loved the power but like I've said in some past threads that the fun was over way too fast with them. I would floor it and be past legal speeds in 5 seconds and then the fun was over. It was like I could never really USE the power because it was too fast.

To me, it is more fun to drive a slower car fast, then a fast car fast. You get to wring out the gears more, you get to try and explore the limits of the handling and you get to have a ton of fun.

As far as money is concerned the M3 would have only cost me a little over $22,000 while the 330 is running me around $11,000.
Not too bad . . .


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

I take it you are leasing your car? You have a very good point there Alan F. Where in the heck am I going to be able to push the car the way it was meant to be pushed. I just wish I could test drive a 330ci with a stick before I buy one. I really like the classy understated (compared to the M3) look of the 330ci. The M3 is just so... what's the word I am searching for? Masculin maybe? When I look at a pic of the M3 it doesn't make me feel all warm and sweet the way the 330ci does. Now I am probably getting into the psychological aspect of vehical selection or something. Leave it to me to be analitical. Alan F, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are one smart cookie. Tell me more about the spirited driving experience that the 330ci affords, if you will?
-Lori


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

I have just one more little question that has been bugging me. Does BMW produce the 330ci in Munich. My cancelled one was built in Regensburg. I was a little disappointed to find that out because I had always assumed Munich was the epicenter of the BMW empire. I also read that the plant in Munich has an excellent reputation regarding build quality.
-Lori


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

I buy my cars, leasing is definitely not for me . . . I need to know that when I want to trade in a car, I can do it with no strings attached. I could understand where you could get that impression and I should have elaborated when I said the price to buy those cars would also include the trade in value of my current 330Ci.

As far as the spirited driving aspect, my wife had taken my car for a little spa weekend with some friends and when she got home yesterday, my car was soooo dirty so I jumped in it, went for a nice drive on those windy roads, checked out some BMW's over at the local dealer and then ran my car through the local handwash . . . then proceeded to jump back into my car and take it for a little cruise !!! My 4 yr old son was mad at me when i got home because I didn't take him to the car wash but that's another story 

Anyway, there is nothing like the feeling I get when I am driving that car. This past summer I had bought an 98 Eclipse Convertible with a turbo and 5 speed manual and that car was fun but I'd then jump into my BMW and REALLY got to appreciate how great the suspension was and how much time and attention BMW put into developing the 3er. I would literally get out of my BMW after a spiritied drive, come into my house and be like 'that was f*ckin awesome', seriously !! 
It was and is an incredible car and the looks of it are beautiful as well. Everytime I leave my car I can't help but look back at how good looking it is.

Did you ever consider looking for a used 330 with a manual just to test drive it ? I'm not saying to buy a used one but at least you'd get a good idea how it is . . .


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Alan F,
Does the 330i handle the same way that a 330ci does? That would probably be an easier car to find. I know the look back that you mentioned. I used to own a 1977 320i coupe. I repainted it JB (that was the original color) and I poored about 5K into fixing it up, bought a set of BBS wheels for it, got a new axle and a slew of other things that needed attention. That thing was a total money pit. I can remember getting out of it and as I walked away, I would look back at it just to steal one more glance. I remember someone caught me doing it once and they said. " Yes Lori, your car is beautiful" I just smiled and felt so good about it. Maybe that's why I can recall it 15 years later.
-Lori


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## CzTom (May 25, 2002)

Lori,

I thought I'd hop in with my personal experience owning an M3 convertible as a daily driver here in SoCal.
I agree that there is just no way you can wring this car out on regular roads in traffic - it's just too capable of doubling the speed limit before you take a breath!:yikes: 
This is my first M, and I admit that there is something to be said for the fun of approaching a car's limits and seeing what you can do. The flip side of that is that if I am driving on public roads with other drivers (of varying skills and attentiveness), I like being in the most capable vehicle possible, so that I have the room between 6/10ths and 9/10ths to spare for avoidance manuevers.
As a daily driver, I am very satisfied with the M3. It is not as smooth riding and quiet as my old E36 325iS, but I wasn't expecting that. It is simply a more involving driving experience - throttle, steering, shifting are all more immediate and the car reacts RIGHT NOW to your inputs.
I have a 30 mile drive one way to work each day. It's 90% freeway, with a little stop-n-go in the afternoons. I am averaging 21 MPG. Now, this car runs 10-12 MPG when I'm doing some canyon carving on the weekends, so you can imagine that I am not whipping by everyone every workday morning (OK, so I average 80-85 MPH on the way to work, but I'm not alone:angel: ). Do I still smile every time I get into the car and hear that low burble as I pull out of the garage? You bet! I no longer worry about getting by traffic, getting into the hole in traffic, or getting onto an on/off-ramp too hot - you gotta be really moving to approach the limits! 
Regarding reliability and the spun bearing issue with the motor. I have been following this issue closely since before I ordered my car, and I have seen BMW go from stone-walling to treating affected customers fairly. The majority of failures occurred in cars produced in 10-11/01, with the latest failure being on a 2/02 production unit (I think). The problem has consistently been a spun bearing, and BMW has replaced the engine (for free) on all the cars that have been tracked on the RoadFly Forum's E46 M3 engine failure website (check out the link). Since I have an SMGII equiped car, I am not worried about the over-rev excuse.
Last point to consider: for 95% of BMW drivers, a sport package equiped E46 represents an ideal compromise of ride and handling for how people use their cars. The M3 is a much more focused machine tailored to the hardcore few who want the best performance BMW Motorsports can get out of a regular production car. It's a relatively small club, but very enthusiastic! (not to imply any lack in other E46 drivers  ) - plus, you don't see yourself on the road daily.
Whatever you choose to do, you're looking to the right car company - there is no such thing as a poor-driving BMW!!:thumbup:


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

Canyon carving in an M3 sounds like lots of fun. How many miles do you have on yours? I really like the concept of SMG, but It show ain't cheap. Is it worth the price? What color is your car? Did you get the 19" wheels? Does BMW stonewall you if they think they can or do take care of things the right way? Do you have to get nasty in order to get action with BMW?
Sorry about all the questions. Thanks for your reply.
-Lori


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## jhc (Jun 12, 2002)

*Factory...*

Lori-

I believe the E46 coupes are all made in Regensberg. Someone more knowledgeable may correct me however,

Jeff


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

I've noticed the Sedan feels a little tighter, more solid feeling then my coupe especially if you don't get the folding rear seat in the sedan. Plus I have 2 little kids and business lunches so I figured I'd go with a sedan this time around.

If you don't use the backseat often there really is no reason to go with the sedan unless you prefer it . . .
In the Coupe you sit a little lower, more sports car like and the overall handling feel is little flatter.

Did you see the famous thread below . . . plenty of coupe vs sedan info there . . .

http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11214


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## CzTom (May 25, 2002)

Lori,

To answer your questions:
- I have about 5000 miles on mine, it's Carbon Black with Cinnamon interior.
- I got the stock 18s because the ride is a little better, and the loss in transient response is so small that I'm sure I wouldn't notice. I had also read that in some tests the 18s performed better than the 19s (because they warmed up faster). To me it was a choice on how you want the car to look, and I wanted to put the $1900 towards the SMG transmission.
- I definitely think SMG is worth the price (Ferrari charges something like $7000 for theirs). It's different than either a stick or an automatic, and there is a learning curve to making it do things exactly the way you want. Check out this website:http://www.leo.nutz.de/m3smgfaq.php3 
- As far as getting BMW service to perform, I have not had any major problems with the car, so I can't really say. I can tell you that which dealer you use makes all the difference in the world - they have to be willing to go to bat for you. Hopefully, I will never be able to answer this question. I go to Long Beach BMW, and the have been very good in finding and fixing a couple of niggling little problems. I took my previous BMW there, and never had problems with their service.

OK, that's it; lastly, here's a pic of the car (helps you visualize :


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## CzTom (May 25, 2002)

Darn cut & paste:tsk:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

CzTom said:


> *Darn cut & paste:tsk: *


I love the Carbon Black . . .your car is a real beauty Tom :thumbup:


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

The HACK said:


> *
> 
> Or blow an oil gasket on a $80K+ car. Happens on Porsches ALL THE TIME. :dunno:
> 
> ...


It all depends what you want. If you want a super exotic toy, reliability is sort of a non-issue. A certain amount of temperamentality is part of the mystique. And certainly if you can comfortably afford a M3 (and even more so up the scale to the Porsche and Ferrari), having another car as a daily driver (or better having the M3 as the daily driver, with the Enzo as the toy :thumbup: ) is well within the realm of possibility, so if the toy is down for a while you're not stranded. But still these are street cars (F50 and Enzo excepted. Those are barely domesticated race cars). Anything put our for consumer use should have some minium level of reliability. Having major internal engine failures sinks below this level. I think BMW just pushed a bit too hard in getting the most performance out of the engine.

And remember, since the M3 is daily drivable, some people who would normally get a 330 as their only car stick a crowbar in their budgets to get the M3. They would even less appreciate being stranded.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the M3, both in concept and execution. I nearly impulse bought one soon after they came out (and probably would have gotten one of the bunch with this problem). But in going for that last percent or two in performance, BMW 
went just a bit too far.


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## CzTom (May 25, 2002)

Thanks, Alan! It's my first black (well, almost black) car, and keeping it clean is a bi---!:tsk: 
The results are worth it, though! I am often surprised by how much the color changes between black and midnight blue, depending on the light and angle - a really interesting color.
BTW, the seats look more orange in the pic than they actually are in person - they're more of a light-colored baseball glove shade than anything else.
So how is it maintaining a black car in a part of the country where they have real weather? It's gotta be tough - but it looks good! :thumbup:


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

Lori said:


> *I just wish I could test drive a 330ci with a stick before I buy one.
> -Lori *


Lori,
I'll be passing through your neck of the woods on my way to Ohio after I pick up my manual 330Ci in South Carolina. Want me to stop by? I would be happy to let you take it for a test drive.


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## Lori (Sep 21, 2002)

CzTom,
That really is a nice looking car. I think cinnamon is an excellent choice for the Carbon Black. Thanks for all your input. Do alot of people have M3s where you live. I don't see them very often where I live. I do see alot of 325i and 330i sedans though. Do you get people admiring your car all the time? Do you get tired of it? If I were to buy an M3 I would probably get a fairly neutral color just to fend off the gawkers. JB,B or SG,C Just not something like IR with IR. I 'de never get any peace.


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## GimpyMcFarlan (Aug 13, 2002)

Lori said:


> *Does BMW produce the 330ci in Munich.
> -Lori *


I believe they are made at Munich, Dingolfing or Regensberg.


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