# E60 Test Drive



## KevinM (May 2, 2003)

Ok. I reserved all judgement until I had actually driven the car. Now that I have done so, I render my opinion for all its worth!  

I still have not come to terms with the styling, but it will probably grow on me. It looks best with 18" wheels and I think would look even better with deep-dish BBS (etc.) type wheels. I still like the look of my E39 better, but I fear that in time it will look quite dated when compared to the E60. Like many, I wish I didn't have to "get used to it"; a car should seduce one from the first look (as the E39 did for me).

Likewise, I feel mixed about the interior. I really missed the angled dash and the cockpit like feeling of the E39. Nonetheless, it is a pleasant, airy interior and will certainly appeal to many. I did not have time to assess the quality of the interior in detail, but it seemed up to par, with a few exceptions. The plastics used for the climate control center seem slightly cheap and I did not care for the look of the center dash in general. I did not even attemp to master idrive but feel that after several weeks of use I would get used to it. The steering wheel is not nearly as pleasant as the M version in the sport package equipped E39; hopefully once the E60 M5 arrives, its steering wheel will also be transplanted to the sport versions of the other E60s. Of note, the 545 I saw had wood handles on the inside doors, and this looked MUCH better than the silver plastic interior door handles on the 530 (which did have a wood dash).

Now, the drive...I drove the 530 as no 545s were available (the one I saw had been sold). Unfortunately, there were no manual transmission cars available, so I had to drive the steptronic. Overall, it drove wonderfully. I loved the active steering - it really had me grinning going around sharp turns around town. Otherwise, it reminded me of driving my E39 530, which I take to be a good thing. The E60 did "nanny" a bit too much and I felt the various safety devices kicking in much more frequently than in my E39.

When I was done, I must admit a felt a surge of pleasure as I entered my familiar E39 and grabbed the thick M steering wheel. Still, I have certainly not ruled out purchasing a 545i 6 speed in a year's time or so...or keep my 530 and drive a classic for years...or buy a 2002 or 2003 E39 M5...decisions, decisions. Luckily, all the options seem great.  

Congradulations to all you E60 owners - you have a great car.

Kevin


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Wait, wait, wait and then wait. Look at my post "Problems with the new 5". If I could, honestly I would return the E60 I have ang go get either a 2003 540 or even older M5.

Live and learn...
:bawling:


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## Love530 (Sep 4, 2003)

*Whoa there big fella!*

Try to take that last post with a grain of salt. He got a bad car, it happens. My e60 is wonderful and drives perfectly. Do not hesitate to upgrade to the e60, you will be most satisfied!


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

Love530 said:


> Try to take that last post with a grain of salt. He got a bad car, it happens. My e60 is wonderful and drives perfectly. Do not hesitate to upgrade to the e60, you will be most satisfied!


Same with me I have an E60 and it is simply wonderful, no problems at all.


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## andykidney (Nov 14, 2003)

*test drive*

i test drove the 545/ non sport today, it was awsome love the note on the exhaust when press hard, cant wait to get mine next year,beewang i cant wait.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Last I checked, cars are designed and built by human beings and we do fark up at times!  Even BMW can churn out a lemon or two or three or .....

That said, the exterior has grown on me but I still hate the interior. I plan to buy a 2006 545i but we'll see. My 530i is 40k and going strong...now I need to research an extended warranty! :yikes:

Chris


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## KevinM (May 2, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Last I checked, cars are designed and built by human beings and we do fark up at times!  Even BMW can churn out a lemon or two or three or .....
> 
> That said, the exterior has grown on me but I still hate the interior. I plan to buy a 2006 545i but we'll see. My 530i is 40k and going strong...now I need to research an extended warranty! :yikes:
> 
> Chris


Does BMW sell extended warranties, or are you talking about another company? If another company, can the work still be done by a BMW dealer?

Kevin


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

KevinM said:


> Does BMW sell extended warranties, or are you talking about another company? If another company, can the work still be done by a BMW dealer?
> 
> Kevin


You can pay to extend the "all-inclusive" from 3yr/36k to 4yr/50k but to be honest, most think that the $400-700 they want for it isn't worth it. To be honest, I don't know exactly what isn't covered once you hit 3 years or 36k. I do know you are still covered for quite a bit of stuff up to 4 yr/50k. The devil is in the details and I don't know 'em.

For extending beyond 4yr/50k, you would most likely need to go aftermarket.

Now if you buy a used BMW from a dealers, it is usually a CPO'ed (certified pre-owned) car and that warranty is 6 yr/100k (I think).

I have heard of people getting their cars "CPO'ed" but I am not sure many dealers would do it. Basically, take your car to a dealer, sell it to them, then they CPO it, then you buy it back. All probably in a day or two depending on what they find and what needs fixing before the car can become CPO. Further, I've no idea what that would cost. I do know one guy who had his E39 CPO'ed (he bought the car new) but the dealer he took it to was one he has known for a while and one he has bought several cars from. I think the dealer basically did him a favor and he probably didn't pay anything for it...quite a deal I think.

Chris


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Just got back from BMW. This is the verdict. A BMW Field Service Engineer (they travel all over taking care of issues) test drove my vehicle with me. He inmediately experienced what I was talking about. Then we drove an exact model as mine. The only difference mine was equipped with Continental tires, this one had GoodYear Eagles. You could still feel the wind on the other vehicle. The ride was much softer and nicer on this one. BMW switched rims and tires. After driving mine with the Goodyear tires, the ride was similar from what was experienced on that second vehicle.

What I was told is that it seems that BMW is aware of the wind issue. The engineer said he had not noticed it until brought to his attention a while back. Of course most of the driving on the New 5 he has done was on the 545. Another thing he did, was that as soon as we got on the highway, he hit the window buttons thinking that maybe they were open. They were not. Point No.2 The wind noise inside the vehicle at highway speeds was VERY noticeable, on all the cars we drove.

So. This model really IS affected by the wind. BMW IS AWARE OF THIS!!!
I can say the ride is much better with the Goodyear tires, but it still gets beat up by the wind.

I'm sorry, but as I said before, the ride on my 2003 E39 is by far superior than my 2004 E60. The following was posted by another user...

"I can't speak from experience myself, but the latest issue of Car & Driver was not pleased with the '04 530i (or any of the BMW's they tested in this issue for that matter). They also mentioned that there car did not feel stable in crosswinds. There car was equipted with the Sports Package (which they commented on the "too quick" ratio at low speeds).

I'm thinking it's going to be an issue with the new 5. It's a shame, BMW's are known for there handling.....I guess BMW's going down a bad path...Oh well."


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> Just got back from BMW. This is the verdict. A BMW Field Service Engineer (they travel all over taking care of issues) test drove my vehicle with me. He inmediately experienced what I was talking about. Then we drove an exact model as mine. The only difference mine was equipped with Continental tires, this one had GoodYear Eagles. You could still feel the wind on the other vehicle. The ride was much softer and nicer on this one. BMW switched rims and tires. After driving mine with the Goodyear tires, the ride was similar from what was experienced on that second vehicle.
> 
> What I was told is that it seems that BMW is aware of the wind issue. The engineer said he had not noticed it until brought to his attention a while back. Of course most of the driving on the New 5 he has done was on the 545. Another thing he did, was that as soon as we got on the highway, he hit the window buttons thinking that maybe they were open. They were not. Point No.2 The wind noise inside the vehicle at highway speeds was VERY noticeable, on all the cars we drove.
> 
> ...


Sounds like they are just appeasing you or you have a bad car. I have literally driven my new 5 in a driving rain storm with 30-40 mile per hour winds and my wife and I commented on how stable the car was.

For all of you out there taking this as a concern, I wouldn't. I just simply can't understand where this guy is coming from. I own a Mercedes-Benz e320 and a Lexus GS300, and the BMW handles far better in pretty much all conditions, especially going 90 MPH on the highway...yes in wind.....and the wind noise is actually LESS noticeable than in my Mercedes and Lexus. I think Mr. 03 and 04 owner has hyper sensitive ears or has an axe to grind.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

dakoowa said:


> Sounds like they are just appeasing you or you have a bad car. I have literally driven my new 5 in a driving rain storm with 30-40 mile per hour winds and my wife and I commented on how stable the car was.
> 
> For all of you out there taking this as a concern, I wouldn't. I just simply can't understand where this guy is coming from. I own a Mercedes-Benz e320 and a Lexus GS300, and the BMW handles far better in pretty much all conditions, especially going 90 MPH on the highway...yes in wind.


Let's see, do you work for BMW by any chance? Dealer perhaps?

Where am I coming from? I've had BMWs since 1989. 3 Series, Z3s, 5 Series, even an X5. And there is a reason for that. They are GOOD vehicles. Awesome performance and stability. Not to be said about the new 5. There was NOT one service person, salesperson, engineer or manager today at the BMW dealership that would not agree with me about the new 5 being unstable under windy conditions.

Go and read Car and Driver. They said the same. Maybe you don't know where they are coming from either.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Here's copy of an email sent to BMW

These are convenience features which are no more from the 2003 5 series to the 2004. 

1. Fog Lights. No switch to have them come on automatically as you have in the old 5. Now you have to turn them on manually. 
2. Home Link and Remotes. They are now mounted on the rearview mirror. The problem with this is that A: you can’t find them by touch as before. You are forced to look, hence taking your eyes of the road, and B: Several times as I pressed on the remote button, I moved the rearview mirror and have to then re-adjust it, since it does not set automatically as the outside mirrors. 
3. No coin holder!!! Wow!!! Now I need to go to the dollar store to buy one and glue it somewhere… 
4. Brakes do not feel like “BMW” brakes. They feel weak. 
5. In order to “scan” (radio) You have to use the IDrive, communications menu, fm menu, type menu, to change from pre-set to manual, then exit IDrive then you are able to scan. Then to go back to pre-sets, well you know. What happened to that good old “scan” button? 
6. The trunk will not open with the remote if locked for valet. In all other BMW models I have owned you could still open the trunk with the remote even if locked for “valet” use. As the lady on the instructional DVD explains, “When you need to valet first get out of your vehicle, go to the rear, lock the trunk, then give the spare key to the valet attendant”. Come on, every time you valet you are going to get out of your car to lock the trunk? 
7. AC Vents on the doors were also removed. This forces you to have to set the temperature to like 67 or 68 to be comfortable on a hot day. In the “old” 5 very rarely would it need to be set lower than 73 and it is always nice and cool inside. 
8. The Idrive screen at night, even though you can turn it off, it is annoying while driving on dark roads as it shines very bright (even when off). If you lower the intensity of the instrument panel so that it won’t be so bright, then this also affects the rest of the instruments making them very dark. Individual dim settings for the monitor would help. 
9. Annoying "Pass Seat Belt Off" light at night.
10. Lots of wind noise inside the cabin when driving on the Interstate. Really. 
11. Car seems to be affected by the wind even though it is supposed to be more aerodynamic. You can really feel the car getting “pushed” by the wind. Very noticeable when you pass another vehicle at the moment this vehicle does not block the wind for you anymore. 
Handling of the vehicle at “high” speeds is very weak. It sways from side to side. (when I say high I mean 75 or 80mph, you know I would never break the law. J) 
The adaptive headlights are too sensitive. They move too much. 

I don’t mean to sound too critical of the vehicle, but honestly besides being beautiful on the outside, the car cannot compete with the last generation 5. Remember it’s the “inside” that counts
:angel:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

I'll do a blow-by-blow on your list below.



03&04Owner said:


> Here's copy of an email sent to BMW
> 
> These are convenience features which are no more from the 2003 5 series to the 2004.
> 
> 1. Fog Lights. No switch to have them come on automatically as you have in the old 5. Now you have to turn them on manually.


 Uh, the E39 fog lights are manual and always have been. Are you talking about some other lights?


03&04Owner said:


> 2. Home Link and Remotes. They are now mounted on the rearview mirror. The problem with this is that A: you can't find them by touch as before. You are forced to look, hence taking your eyes of the road, and B: Several times as I pressed on the remote button, I moved the rearview mirror and have to then re-adjust it, since it does not set automatically as the outside mirrors.


 What a pain and I think I'd agree with you. Although I do adjust the mirror after my wife uses the car, I can see how it would get annoying adjusting the mirror after using the remote...this would be at least twice a day and more on the weekends. Someone didn't think THAT through.


03&04Owner said:


> 3. No coin holder!!! Wow!!! Now I need to go to the dollar store to buy one and glue it somewhere&#8230;


 I use mine a little bit and I don't think I'd miss this at all. Do you need to pay a lot of road tolls or something or are you just use do it?



03&04Owner said:


> 4. Brakes do not feel like "BMW" brakes. They feel weak.


 Maybe you have some air in your brake lines...they don't exactly do a careful bleed at the factory I think. A combination of manual and pressure bleeding should get your brakes rock solid.



03&04Owner said:


> 5. In order to "scan" (radio) You have to use the IDrive, communications menu, fm menu, type menu, to change from pre-set to manual, then exit IDrive then you are able to scan. Then to go back to pre-sets, well you know. What happened to that good old "scan" button?


 That sounds like a pain. This is one of those convenient features that has now been made inconvenient. BMW software has ALWAYS stunk...I don't know who they have writing it but they aren't very good about real world operations and what driver's really want and need. Look at the first revision of the NAV software...the marker showing where you are actually moved instead of staying centered and the map moving! How stupid!



03&04Owner said:


> 6. The trunk will not open with the remote if locked for valet. In all other BMW models I have owned you could still open the trunk with the remote even if locked for "valet" use. As the lady on the instructional DVD explains, "When you need to valet first get out of your vehicle, go to the rear, lock the trunk, then give the spare key to the valet attendant". Come on, every time you valet you are going to get out of your car to lock the trunk?


 Well, as long as you know this, it probably isn't a big deal, right? I mean you have to get out of your car to hand it to the valet anyway. Often, I need to go to the trunk anyway (for luggage, perhaps) but true, not always.



03&04Owner said:


> 7. AC Vents on the doors were also removed. This forces you to have to set the temperature to like 67 or 68 to be comfortable on a hot day. In the "old" 5 very rarely would it need to be set lower than 73 and it is always nice and cool inside.


 I've never like the automatic climate control on the E39...I just keep fiddling with the temp/air speed and adjusting the vanes in the vents to get everything just right. I guess we have less to fiddle with, eh?



03&04Owner said:


> 8. The Idrive screen at night, even though you can turn it off, it is annoying while driving on dark roads as it shines very bright (even when off). If you lower the intensity of the instrument panel so that it won't be so bright, then this also affects the rest of the instruments making them very dark. Individual dim settings for the monitor would help.


 Again, this could be taken care of in software, I think. BMW software...can you say DOS?



03&04Owner said:


> 9. Annoying "Pass Seat Belt Off" light at night.


 LOL...that would probably bug me, too. The electrical tape worked, though, right?  Hey, it adds to the cheapness feel of the interior. 



03&04Owner said:


> 10. Lots of wind noise inside the cabin when driving on the Interstate. Really.


 I've always thought there was a lot of wind noise in the cab but I guess I've gotten used to it in my E39. It still notice it and it does seem excessive when I am concetrating on it. Overall, I am used to it so no biggie.



03&04Owner said:


> 11. Car seems to be affected by the wind even though it is supposed to be more aerodynamic. You can really feel the car getting "pushed" by the wind. Very noticeable when you pass another vehicle at the moment this vehicle does not block the wind for you anymore.
> Handling of the vehicle at "high" speeds is very weak. It sways from side to side. (when I say high I mean 75 or 80mph, you know I would never break the law. J)
> The adaptive headlights are too sensitive. They move too much.
> 
> ...


Ah, but you DO sound quite critical and you have every right to be! I think BMW put a lot into the exterior (whether you like it or not) and a lot into the gizmos and engine/handling (despite how bad yours is) and didn't have much left for the interior comforts and designs.

I wish you the best of luck moving forward with the E60...you can post and complain on her as much as you like!

Chris


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

03&04Owner said:


> Here's copy of an email sent to BMW....


BTW, just post your comments to 1 thread, please...you can direct inquistive people to where you posted.

Thanks,

Chris


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> BTW, just post your comments to 1 thread, please...you can direct inquistive people to where you posted.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris


And not only has he posted here multiple times but on other sites as well. Again, I say he has an axe to grind........to quote Shakespeare "Methinks the man doth protest too much".


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

I guess I will just not post anymore and let people spend the money like me and then find out about these things...


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> I guess I will just not post anymore and let people spend the money like me and then find out about these things...


I have no problem warning people of issues, but I'm just here to say that I haven't noticed your extreme wind shear problem after driving in serious wind and storms, and it's the best car I have ever purchased.

I think either you are hyper sensitive or got a bad car. And if the genius BMW roving analyst told you it's a problem their aware of, as did the dealership, and did nothing.......you need to be smart enough to realize they are blowing you off. That could mean only one of 2 things:

1. They think you are being unreasonable, and don't feel it's a problem.....and are just appeasing you.
2. There is a major problem with all the BMWs recognizable enough for all 2004 5 series owners to notice. I don't notice it, and I have seen no one else complain of this problem on any of the other boards.

As for your claim that I am a BMW employee, i have been roaming these boards seeking assistance on improving the crappy sound in the car. I made the mistake of not going for hte Logic7 sound and am stuck with poor bass. So no, I'm not an employee. However, your personal rampage against the car doesn't make much sense as I've seen you now on 3 sites posting the same things. I always do my best to lend an opposing viewpoint to people on those sorts of "smear" missions. Too much emotion involved, there is something else here you aren't telling us. Trying to get the car labeled a lemon or something?


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

dakoowa said:


> I have no problem warning people of issues, but I'm just here to say that I haven't noticed your extreme wind shear problem after driving in serious wind and storms, and it's the best car I have ever purchased.


From Car and Driver's review on the 2004 530i Titled "You can't miss the new 5-series. (We just wish we didn't miss the old one so much.)"

Car and Driver's Quote "On a gusty highway drive, though, 20-mph crosswinds had their way with the 530i more than we expected."

Read my friend read. Maybe you can write to the experts at Car and Driver and tell them "I think either you are hyper sensitive or got a bad car."


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> dakoowa said:
> 
> 
> > I have no problem warning people of issues, but I'm just here to say that I haven't noticed your extreme wind shear problem after driving in serious wind and storms, and it's the best car I have ever purchased.
> ...


That's my point, I've never read Car and Driver and only hypersensitive car afficianados do. I would suspect an editor of car and driver to be the uber hypersensitive car guy. I'm saying to the average guy who wants to drive to the grocery and on the highway for kicks this will be the best car they have ever owned. If you read Edmonds.com their reviewer calls the new 5 the best car she has ever driven...........so I am smart enough to take everything with a grain of salt, and let my own experience do the talking. Also, anyone can find an article that supports their points........just leave it as it is. The car is a good car, anyone spending 50,000+ on a car will hopefully take it for a good test drive.


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> dakoowa said:
> 
> 
> > I have no problem warning people of issues, but I'm just here to say that I haven't noticed your extreme wind shear problem after driving in serious wind and storms, and it's the best car I have ever purchased.
> ...


Also if you don't have some sort of personal thing going on why are you posting this in like 5 threads on 4 sites?


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

dakoowa said:


> Also if you don't have some sort of personal thing going on why are you posting this in like 5 threads on 4 sites?


DUDE GO GET A LIFE!!!!


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## Lomag (Jul 17, 2003)

I've test driven the 530 a while ago and I did not notice any excessive wind noise, if any, at all.

Sounds to me like something is just wrong with your car. You said you got a 08/2003 build in one thread if I remember... demo cars didn't reach dealers until late September or early October depending on where the dealer is. You did test drive one didn't you?

There's always going to be a few upset apples in the bunch such as yourself. Always is with every product.


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## buddy (Dec 17, 2003)

*indefense of*



03&04Owner said:


> DUDE GO GET A LIFE!!!!


In defense of 03&04owner i too have a couple of bmw a 1990 e34 that has been modded alot to my utmost likeing and the new 530 6speed and the cross wind issue was one of the first things i noticed about the car, on 64 95 295 interstates and tooling on a long stretch of Laburnum Ave in Va it is noticed it to the point of trying to anticipate it, i blame it on the continentals somewhat but it has to be the body design as my e34 is dead sturdy in crosswinds although i have the dreaded steering wheel play wich i intend to address once the weather breaks but taken from another mutiple BMW person the car does experience a wind sheer affect trust us.


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

buddy said:


> In defense of 03&04owner i too have a couple of bmw a 1990 e34 that has been modded alot to my utmost likeing and the new 530 6speed and the cross wind issue was one of the first things i noticed about the car, on 64 95 295 interstates and tooling on a long stretch of Laburnum Ave in Va it is noticed it to the point of trying to anticipate it, i blame it on the continentals somewhat but it has to be the body design as my e34 is dead sturdy in crosswinds although i have the dreaded steering wheel play wich i intend to address once the weather breaks but taken from another mutiple BMW person the car does experience a wind sheer affect trust us.


I hear ya, but Buicks blow hard in the wind too compared to a new car, my point is if this is your first car there is no problem...........if you are comparing the new model to your old model, then the problem is your perception of how the car should be.......


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## bmwguynj (Jun 12, 2002)

All arguing / debating aside, I can't wait to get the new 545 when my current lease is up. Add me to the list of fans of this new generation.

Sure I love the previous generation (even have one in the family - 2001 530 - great car), but I like the new gen styling and features and looking forward to moving on.

Even if some don't like the styling of the new generation, I have to admit my 2001 530i already looks kind of outdated when you see the 2 side by side. And as I see more E60s on the road, this feeling will continue to get stronger.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

The new style was what motivated me to get the E60. We think is a beautiful car.


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## 525white (Dec 18, 2003)

dakoowa said:


> I hear ya, but Buicks blow hard in the wind too compared to a new car, my point is if this is your first car there is no problem...........if you are comparing the new model to your old model, then the problem is your perception of how the car should be.......


I would have to agree with this observation. My E60 drives great but then I am comparing this to the car I traded in, a Volvo XC. The change from a wagon to a sedan alone cuts a lot of wind noise out. And the Volvo was no match for handling. My other cars are a Wrangler and an old Vette. So an X5 would seem like a Z8 to me. I know a lot of people are not crazy about the active steering but I thought it was great. Makes it feel like a much shorter wheel base car or something. 
After reading the other posts, I did go out and check what tires were on my car. They are Dunlop Sports. Don't kow if that would make a difference to the drive. (It would be interesting to see which tires people like and which they don't)
I am sure those of you that have noticed this problem have had the toe-in checked on the vehicle. When I switched my Vette to radials a while back, the tire guys suggested not to allign the wheels dead neutral. They said a lot of guys that go racing do this but it makes the car a bit squirrely for everyday driving. So we toed it in a bit and it has been fine. (for it's age) 
My suggestion to 03&04OWNER is this:
Don't know enough about these cars but.....
I went thru the same thing (well really worse) with Volvo a few years back. The first thing you need to do is decide once you know this a car specific problem ," Do you want this car fixed or returned?" Either way,follow the chain of command and document everything including the day and time you met with people and exactly what they said. Make notes on everything. Not that this will mean much now but it does help down the road. After you have gone thru the whole chain of command, check the state lemon law procedures. We did not get any real action from the dealer or Volvo until we sent a registered letter to all concerned stating all our problems, who we had talked to, the length of time we had been fighting, etc. Dealers and manufacturers do not want to go thru these cases. Two days after we sent out the letters, we got a call from Volvo asking us what we wanted them to do. We had already decided that we wanted the car (I'll wait for a second until you get done laughing. Sort of makes you wonder if you want advice from me doesn't it? )................................ Anyway, 2 days after that, we got a call from the dealer saying our new engine would be there in about 4 days and when would we like it changed. 
I really hope you do not have to go thru all this though. It is a pain. Good luck.


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

*active steering?*

Isn't the active steering supposed to compenstate on it's own for crosswinds? Could it be related to that? Maybe you're feeling the active steering compensating for the crosswinds and that is what is giving you a feeling of instability. It's definitely a feature that hasn't been on any other car I know of so it's not something you could be used to. I don't know, it's just an idea.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Moderato said:


> Isn't the active steering supposed to compenstate on it's own for crosswinds? Could it be related to that? Maybe you're feeling the active steering compensating for the crosswinds and that is what is giving you a feeling of instability. It's definitely a feature that hasn't been on any other car I know of so it's not something you could be used to. I don't know, it's just an idea.


I don't have active steering on this vehicle...


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

525white said:


> My suggestion to 03&04OWNER is this:
> Don't know enough about these cars but.....
> I went thru the same thing (well really worse) with Volvo a few years back. The first thing you need to do is decide once you know this a car specific problem ," Do you want this car fixed or returned?"


Thanks for your post 525 White. The problem is that if BMW says or confirms that yes the vehicle seems to be affected by the wind, then what? Talking to BMW rep. he said that if it was the way a particular model handles that there is nothing they can do. Honestly, I'm very confused at this time with this situation. I don't think I can return the vehicle, can I?. I really don't know what my options are, if any at this moment.

I got this car for my wife. She doesn't want to drive it. She has taken over my 2003 530i and doesn't want to give it back. So, I'm the one stuck with the E60, until I can sell it. Which probable means a few years due to the current payoff.


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## 525white (Dec 18, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> Thanks for your post 525 White. The problem is that if BMW says or confirms that yes the vehicle seems to be affected by the wind, then what? Talking to BMW rep. he said that if it was the way a particular model handles that there is nothing they can do. Honestly, I'm very confused at this time with this situation. I don't think I can return the vehicle, can I?. I really don't know what my options are, if any at this moment.


I know how you feel. I felt the same way with Volvo. We had a number of things that everyone told us was just "How it is with Volvo's." The first thing I would do is drive as many different 5's as you can. I know you said you tried a few. But maybe try some more. Different tires, etc. Try ones with the sport package. You may not like the active steering but see if it feels different to you. I just read the Car and Driver article and it sounded as if they thought the wind problem was particially due to the active steering, which you don't have. I think i would also take it to another front end shop and have them do a 4 wheel alignment check. Didn't i also read that they have replaced a wheel for you early on? There are some very good tire places out there who have a lot of insight into wheel alignment and set-ups. I would think, especially in Florida, you could get some guys who really know their stuff. 
Either way you need to keep going as if you feel there is a problem with the car that needs to be fixed. If you never take it all the way to filing under the lemon law, you still have everything you need to do it, just in case. Also BMW does not want unhappy customers. Too much competition and too little people with the kind of money to buy these cars. So if they should realize down the road that some cars, built before a certain date or whatever, had a consistent problem and they find a fix, they will come back to you. Hang in there.
Just curious, Did you try driving the car with the DSC and Traction off? 
Did it feel different then?


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## Capitalist (Oct 12, 2002)

I highly doubt that this is a universal problem with all E60's. I'm sure that BMW tested the car extensively prior to commencing mass production; it's hard to imagine that BMW would allow such a major flaw to slip through. So it's most likely a problem with your particular car.


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## Bearcat (Oct 15, 2003)

I testdrove the 530i Sport Steptronic about 2 months ago and was totally blown away by it. 

Before I drove the car I took a very good look at the car and it looked much better in person than pictures. I did notice the tires were runflat type and would expect their heavy unsprung weight would burden the car somewhat. Much to my surprise the car accelerate swiftly and strongly. 

The active steering provided positive feedback and accuracy. I also had a chance to do a U-turn and the turning radius was so small, I wonder if it could beat the Corrola?

The handling was very good and responsive. Much better than my 99 Passat with Eibach springs and Bilstein shocks. 

Even though the car was equipped with sport suspension and the runflat tires, the car rode very supple and solid.

I only drove it in city streets up to 60 mph so it was not fast enough to hear any wind noise or feel the wind. I did watch a TV program where they testdrove the new 530i by a race car driver and a car editor and they commented how solid the car felt at >120 mph.

As for the interior, I was regret that the car didn't even equipt with coolent or oil temperature gauge; are you kidding me?! :tsk: I also did not have time to play with the i-drive but did noticed the salesman had some trouble getting the thing to work as he wanted. Not user friendly. I wish this could be an option to keep cost down and more appear to the pure enthusiasts
.................................................................................................
Right after I drove the Bimmer I went to an Accura dealer to check out the new TL for what the heck. The TL actually looks pretty good for its money as I was checking the car real good in the show room. Then the sales man asked me if I wanted to drive it. .....Oh no, what a dissapointment in steering feel compare to the 530i or even my Passat. There is excessive torque steer and when I went over some irregular road surface areas, the steering appeared to have a mind of its own and wandered left and right. The handling also has no comparision the the Bimmer. The only thing comparable was the ride. The TL's 270 hp engine for some reason did not feel as responsive as the 530's 225 hp on part throttle. Maybe it was because the TL had only 8 miles on its odometer and the engine felt tight. The TL's tiptronic did not have a sport mode in auto as the 530i's excellent automatic had. The TL's overall driving experience has no comparison to the 530i's. I know the the Bimmer costs almost 20K more so this is not a fair comparo but just for fun you know.  Before the testdrive, I had a delimma whether to go with a new TL or a used 530i. 
.................................................................................................
All in all, I was very impressed with the new 530i and it was one of nicest testdrivng experience that infatuated me so much :thumbup: , but I would either wait a year to get it after reading all these first year glitches poses or am thinking about getting a used E39 530i, or wait 2 years and get a used E60.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Bearcat said:


> I did watch a TV program where they testdrove the new 530i by a race car driver and a car editor and they commented how solid the car felt at >120 mph
> 
> The TL's 270 hp engine for some reason did not feel as responsive as the 530's 225 hp on part throttle.


I saw the same program. SpeedVision I think. Another reason I got this car. That program was very convincing.

What you mention regarding the Acura and responsive engine. I test drove the 350Z. The salesperson let me and my wife test drive the car alone. You can imagine. We really put that thing to the test. It is funny that the 350Z is rated at 287hp, but it did not feel as responsive as the 530i.


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## buddy (Dec 17, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> I saw the same program. SpeedVision I think. Another reason I got this car. That program was very convincing.
> 
> What you mention regarding the Acura and responsive engine. I test drove the 350Z. The salesperson let me and my wife test drive the car alone. You can imagine. We really put that thing to the test. It is funny that the 350Z is rated at 287hp, but it did not feel as responsive as the 530i.


Just as i said before my 530i exhibits crosswind syndrom also but i am kinda use to it now and can anticipate it on occassions but would not even think about giving the car up for this reason, hang in there 03&04owner she will fall in love again or if not you might like i said i own an e34 also that is great, but when the 04 was in the shop i was loaned an e39 i was cramped and uninspired to the point of letting my wife drive it and i drove my e34. she hates bmws but loved the e39 wich leaves me to beleve that unless its a m5 e39 its a ladies thing


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## Bearcat (Oct 15, 2003)

Subjectively, the 04 530i felt faster than the E39 530i. Both Steptronic. Does anyone feel that way, too or the other way around? Is there any improvement on the engine even though the hp and torque ratings are the same?


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## KevinM (May 2, 2003)

Bearcat said:


> Subjectively, the 04 530i felt faster than the E39 530i. Both Steptronic. Does anyone feel that way, too or the other way around? Is there any improvement on the engine even though the hp and torque ratings are the same?


The E60 is lighter, largely due to extensive use of aluminum; therefore, it is quicker. BMW quotes 0 to 60 times of 6.9 and 6.6 (I think) seconds for the E39 and E60, respectively (with the manual tranny).

Having said that, I could not decern a subjective difference between the two when I test drove the E60.

Kevin


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## Bearcat (Oct 15, 2003)

The brochure for the E39 530i auto is 7.0 sec 0-60; what is the E60's?


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## fcmaras (Dec 15, 2003)

Bearcat said:


> The brochure for the E39 530i auto is 7.0 sec 0-60; what is the E60's?


I picked up the brochure today and like Kevin stated it has 6.9 for the automatic and 6.6 for SMG.

/FCM


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## Bearcat (Oct 15, 2003)

The E39 530i manual time is 6.8 sec only .2 sec faster than the steptronic. What is the time for E60 manual?

The curb weight for the E39 530i auto is 3549 lbs, what about the E60's?


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## KevinM (May 2, 2003)

Bearcat said:


> The E39 530i manual time is 6.8 sec only .2 sec faster than the steptronic. What is the time for E60 manual?
> 
> The curb weight for the E39 530i auto is 3549 lbs, what about the E60's?


http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530iSedan/techdata.htm?dNav_loc=_root.c5.c530isedan.techdata

The above link has all the info.

Kevin


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## 1RADBMR (Sep 24, 2003)

I think threads like this must be causing BMW great concern. On the heels of the internet campaign bashing the styling of the E60, what car company, especially BMW, would relish having the car's performance bashed as well. I am just an observer on the issue (don't own one, not planning to soon, and have nothing in the world whatsoever against those who do or will or might), but this has got to be hurting sales. I still haven't actually seen one on the roads of San Diego.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

1RADBMR said:


> I think threads like this must be causing BMW great concern. On the heels of the internet campaign bashing the styling of the E60, what car company, especially BMW, would relish having the car's performance bashed as well. I am just an observer on the issue (don't own one, not planning to soon, and have nothing in the world whatsoever against those who do or will or might), but this has got to be hurting sales. I still haven't actually seen one on the roads of San Diego.


I doubt it. I've been seeing bazillions of them on the road up here in LA. Saw three of them today on a quick run from West L.A. to Glendale and back.


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

Plaz said:


> I doubt it. I've been seeing bazillions of them on the road up here in LA. Saw three of them today on a quick run from West L.A. to Glendale and back.


yeah a ton of them in DC too, dealerships back ordered etc.


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## Jewels530i (Dec 27, 2003)

If you hold down the seek button on the steering wheel for a second it will scan the presets.


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## KevinM (May 2, 2003)

dakoowa said:


> yeah a ton of them in DC too, dealerships back ordered etc.


Not too many in Arizona yet. I've seen one each in Tucson and Scottsdale. The Tucson dealer has plenty of 525s and 530s but no 545s...


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## Chnsky545i (Nov 10, 2003)

*03&04 should thank you on the scan feature*



Jewels530i said:
 

> If you hold down the seek button on the steering wheel for a second it will scan the presets.


It seems DAKOOWA is right in that 03&04 is simply bitter. I am sure with some simple inquiries he could settle his small issues on his car and realize he has one of the best sedans currently on the market.

I can't wait to get mine, taking ED in March, waiting for the SMG.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Chnsky545i said:


> It seems DAKOOWA is right in that 03&04 is simply bitter. I am sure with some simple inquiries he could settle his small issues on his car and realize he has one of the best sedans currently on the market.
> 
> I can't wait to get mine, taking ED in March, waiting for the SMG.


Let's see, hum, what about if you just want to scan, not presets. just scan. Why would you want to scan presets? If you are driving out of town, your presets mean nothing as radio stations do not follow you around as you drive inter-state :rofl:


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## Chnsky545i (Nov 10, 2003)

*I am sure there is nothing that would make you happy but....*



03&04Owner said:


> Let's see, hum, what about if you just want to scan, not presets. just scan. Why would you want to scan presets? If you are driving out of town, your presets mean nothing as radio stations do not follow you around as you drive inter-state :rofl:


Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there more than one FM channel. FM1 and FM2. I travel 50 miles to work each day and have one set of stations on FM1 and another on my FM2 this way depending on which side of the mountain range I am on I use the preset-scan to go through the six presets. I do agree it is odd the omitted a simple scan, but honestly do you really want to have to filter through all the non-english radio stations or the country you don't listen to anyway?


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## Jewels530i (Dec 27, 2003)

03 & 04, did you ever watch that DVD that came with the car? If you tap the button it seeks. Hold it for a second and it will scan the presets. You can go in either direction depending on if you tap (or hold for a sec) the bottom or top of the button. Further I will let you in on a secret. If you read your manual you will find that you can easily set it to autoscan all the available stations and automatically assign them to presets for travel purposes and these will not erase your regular stations. You can still seek as normal. I'm not going to tell you how though because it appears to me that a little time spent with your manual would be a good thing. BTW, preset scan works well when you are in your home area and all the stations you listen to are on preset. You may then use it to scan just the stations you listen to rather than seeking till you hear something that you find palatable.


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## Chnsky545i (Nov 10, 2003)

*Thanks Jewels, that help 03&04*

Like Jewels says, it sounds like you easily complain about things before doing the obvious and checking the manual or simply asking how it works. We are here to help each other. If you want to complain I am sure there are people who you can pay to listen to it.


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## hyepower (Jan 7, 2004)

New 5 looks like a Camry XLE ,,,Not worth 50K in my opinion,, ITs cheap.. the doors are light,,, flimsy,, the inside feels like a camry,, Cheap plastic nobs everywhere,, and whats with the stupid silver plastic on the doors,, I think BMW designers were on crack whrn they were working on this,, Look at the E39 and now look at this Piece of crap they came out with,, The inside is a piece of crap,, I Front of the car looks like a turd on weels,, the onl thing i like bout the car is the rear,, IF they made the front of the car looking like the new 7 series and kept the back how it is,,and brought back the interior of the e 39,, or maybe had the 7 series interior,, then maybe i would take one,, but as of now,,, Its a piece of crap,, Looks like a dam camry,, feels like a dam camry,, Does not feel like a 50K car,, Id rather buy a mercedes E or CLK class for the money,, atleast there car feels like quality,, FIRE THE WHOLE DESIGN TEAM OVER THERE DAMMIT,,


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## Jewels530i (Dec 27, 2003)

If your going to troll the least you could do is come up with something new rather than cut and paste. That doesn't show any real passion, just laziness. If you wish to be taken seriously then try offering up something other than opinions and lies. The car drives nothing like a Camry and you would know this if you had test driven the vehicle. Everything else in your post is opinion. While this is important to you it has no import to anyone else.


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

Chnsky545i said:


> Like Jewels says, it sounds like you easily complain about things before doing the obvious and checking the manual or simply asking how it works. We are here to help each other. If you want to complain I am sure there are people who you can pay to listen to it.


Man, you can kiss my ***. I'm not complaining. All of you talk about reading, reading, reading. Well it desn't seem that you read my post. I'm not talking about pre-sets. I'm talking about all stations. I drive all over the state, and unless you use the Idrive to set your stations from Presets to manuals, you cannot scan all stations. If you let it to autoscan it will erase the presets.

You don't have to be rude to express your opinions. The same goes for Jewels530i.

Besides I don't give a damm about the stupid presets. When I travel I use the CD to avoid this issue


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## Lomag (Jul 17, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> When I travel I use the CD to avoid this issue


Alright then, problem solved. Quit b!tching. We know for a fact BMW will improve iDrive over time. It's a very new system and its NOT perfect but you knew that before you bought the car ....


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## hyepower (Jan 7, 2004)

Jewels530i said:


> If your going to troll the least you could do is come up with something new rather than cut and paste. That doesn't show any real passion, just laziness. If you wish to be taken seriously then try offering up something other than opinions and lies. The car drives nothing like a Camry and you would know this if you had test driven the vehicle. Everything else in your post is opinion. While this is important to you it has no import to anyone else.


YOu know what jewly...YOu are just defending the mistake you made,, ITs ok hun,, its ok,, Drive it,, enjoy it,, All im saying is,, the ride is ok,, but the quality of the cockpit sucks.. admit it,, ITs CHEAP,, and whats with the stupid I drive.. Id much rather have the older style of cmmands,, much easier to work with,, Anyhow,, Enjoy your Turdy looking car,, Do us all a favor,, take out the BMW badges from the vehicle and go get the Toyota ones and put them on,, Might as well,, ,, Piece


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## Jewels530i (Dec 27, 2003)

03, this is untrue, you can scan the stations and you can seek. All with one button and without using the idrive. No need to bring a bunch of cd's to "avoid the problem". Unless of course you want to. Hyepower, when you get old enough to drive I hope your mommy shows you the difference between how a Camry drives and a 5 drives. Then I would suggest that being of driving age you find employment and save up your dollars. This will allow you to express your opinion in the way that matters most. With your dollars. In the meantime I hope you have finished your homework before you started playing on the internet. For myself I have chosen the car I prefer and am enjoying it more every day. I hope one day you find the same satisfaction I have in the car of your choice.


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

03&04Owner said:


> Man, you can kiss my ***. I'm not complaining. All of you talk about reading, reading, reading. Well it desn't seem that you read my post. I'm not talking about pre-sets. I'm talking about all stations. I drive all over the state, and unless you use the Idrive to set your stations from Presets to manuals, you cannot scan all stations. If you let it to autoscan it will erase the presets.
> 
> You don't have to be rude to express your opinions. The same goes for Jewels530i.
> 
> Besides I don't give a damm about the stupid presets. When I travel I use the CD to avoid this issue


Guys, you should just ignore 03&04Owner. He has been b*tching about everything concerning the E60 for months now. He finds tiny little details and harps on them for no apparent reason.

Only thing I can figure out is he has some sort of bone to pick with BMW. In my opinion, to quote Gollum he should...."Leave and nevahhh comee backkk".


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## 03&04Owner (Dec 9, 2003)

dakoowa said:


> Guys, you should just ignore 03&04Owner. He has been b*tching about everything concerning the E60 for months now. He finds tiny little details and harps on them for no apparent reason.
> 
> Only thing I can figure out is he has some sort of bone to pick with BMW. In my opinion, to quote Gollum he should...."Leave and nevahhh comee backkk".


You can kiss my *** too. I guess the steering wheel reseting itself all the way up while you are driving is a little thing, right? Since last November I have been trying to get BMW to solve the problem, but they have no solution yet. "Is on the works" they tell me.

I don't know, but if you pay over 50K for a vehicle and it is unsafe to drive, maybe I should keep quiet and wait until we have an accident.

What do you think?


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## dakoowa (Dec 12, 2003)

Leave nowwww and nevaahhh comme bacccck.


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