# The Ten Vehicles That Bankrupted GM



## hts (Dec 19, 2001)

Keyser Soze said:


> this article is a FAIL if they don't include the:
> 
> 1. Cadillac Catera - WHAT THE EFF?


the catera (the caddy that zigs--remember those stupid duck commercials?), which i think may have been based on some european opel model or another, wasn't nearly the pos the cadillac cimarron was.


----------



## Keyser Soze (Oct 24, 2003)

yeah include the Catera/Cimarron as equal failures. I think they were 10 years apart, the Catera was supposed to be their E30 BMW "Killer" lol



hts said:


> the catera (the caddy that zigs--remember those stupid duck commercials?), which i think may have been based on some european opel model or another, wasn't nearly the pos the cadillac cimarron was.


----------



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

wheel-man said:


> And what about the UAW and stodgy corporate culture of GM as being invincible?
> 
> The former made sure GM's goose was cooked.


you mean to say that unions designed those cars? :dunno: most people wouldn't buy those even if they were $2K less or whatever amount the union caused the price to go up by.


----------



## milobloom242 (Dec 28, 2004)

Fast Bob said:


> Come on, let`s get phucking serious here....after the first OPEC oil embargos of 1973 & 1978, the handwriting was on the wall....while Honda, Datsun, Mazda, Volkswagen, et al., took heed and built reliable, economical cars which pointed the way to the future, the huge egos and ultra-rigid corporate structure within GM dictated that they keep grinding out the same old oversized, inefficient, poorly-built sh!tboxes....they had THIRTY YEARS to catch up with the competition, but never did, and they have the balls to complain that things aren`t going their way??????? Tough Sh!t, mother***@kers....YOU got fat and lazy and terminally stupid, so you deserve to go down in flames....Adios, bitches...
> (And yes, I DO feel for the working class of GM who are losing their livelyhood....I think everyone at GM above the rank of Line Foreman should be taken out in the woods and bust a cap in their ass....and let`s throw the UAW execs in there while we`re at it, they certainly didn`t help things....)


Plus One!!! Except I think it was more like 40 yrs instead of 30


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

Keyser Soze said:


> this article is a FAIL if they don't include the:
> 
> 1. Cadillac Catera - WHAT THE EFF?
> 
> ...


oooooh 

somebody's a union man...You forgot to mention what a great guy and personal savior Gettlefinger is.


----------



## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

The Unions didn't design the POS cars they made. When I bought my '76 Celica GT, GM made nothing that was like it at all. Nothing that had the handling, fuel economy, ergos, or reliability. They basically left out my (baby boomer) generation's interest in cars, and did so for years and years. There was a whole sea change in car makers expectations back then. The Japanese manufacturers made cars that worked right when you bought them; they didn't expect you to keep going to the dealer to fix one thing after another. The American cars basically were full of quality problems, and you normally had to go back to the dealer 3 or 4 times to get your new car working.

It was sloppy management that brought GM down, and that includes being overly generous with their union contracts, being overly cheap with their product content, and not making the best cars their engineers could make.


----------



## Scott ZHP (Jul 17, 2003)

IMO, legacy costs are what bankrupted GM; they probably build a decent product today, but they're bland and boring. I have owned precisely one GM product in my life and while it was fun to drive, it was total crap (78 Chevy Monza "Spyder" 305 V8).

To change the plugs you needed to unbolt the RH engine mount and jack the rear of the gearbox.

I have no idea who styled/approved the Aztec. The entire team must have been smoking some really good weed. That "vehicle" is supremely fugly.


----------



## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

Looks like a list someone put together with a half-thought idea and an hour of Google time. There was nothing wrong with the Saab 92X. On the other hand, the series of vehicles with the 4 cyl engine made in the '90s should've had a prominent place, since the first experience many young drivers had with GM products was with one of those unreliable pieces of ****.


----------



## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

Yep - looks like someone got bored. No doubt GM made some bad vehicles, but that list is just a result of someone killing an hour of spare time...


----------



## wyb (Jul 10, 2008)

I thought the hummer division was profitable?


----------



## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

We forgot all the lawsuits too:eeps:


----------



## TehStig (Jun 2, 2009)

UAW+anything=FAIL

Government+GM ownership=communism


:eeps:

Sorry, I had to add that.

Edit: I do feel for those that have already retired and will be living on SSI from now on.


----------



## RCK (Jan 29, 2003)

GM Management + UAW = bankruptcy ( about damn time )


----------



## TehStig (Jun 2, 2009)

TeamM3 said:


> http://jalopnik.com/5274023/ten-vehicles-that-bankrupted-gm/gallery/gallery


It all ended with the J and X body cars: Badge engineering is a bad idea...y'think?

*Front wheel drive
Vehicle Type	Platform	Chevrolet	Pontiac	Oldsmobile	Buick	Cadillac	Saturn	Geo	GMC
subcompact	M-body	SprintMetro	-	-	-	-	-	Metro	-
compact	J-body	Cavalier	2000J2000SunbirdSunfire	Firenza	Skyhawk	Cimarron	-	-	-
compact	X-body	Citation	Phoenix	Omega	Skylark	-	-	-	-
compact	N-body/L-body	BerettaCorsicaMalibu	Grand Am	Cutlass CalaisAchievaAleroCutlass	SkylarkSomerset	-	-	-	-
compact	P-body	Spectrum	-	-	-	-	-	StormSpectrum	-
compact	Delta	Cobalt	Pursuit/G4G5	-	-	-	IonAstra	-	-
compact	S-body	PrizmNova	Vibe	-	-	-	-	Prizm	-
compact	Z-body	-	-	-	-	-	S-Series	-	-
mid-size	A-body	Celebrity	6000	Cutlass CieraCutlass Cruiser	Century	-	-	-	-
mid-size	W-body	LuminaMonte CarloImpala	Grand Prix	Cutlass SupremeIntrigue	RegalCenturyLaCrosse	-	-	-	-
mid-size	Epsilon	MalibuMalibu Maxx	G6	-	-	BLS	Aura	-	-
mid-size	GM2900	-	-	-	-	-	L-Series	-	-
full-size	H-body/G-body/C-body/K-body	-	Bonneville	Eighty-EightNinety-EightAurora	LeSabreElectraPark AvenueLucerne	DevilleSevilleDTS	-	-	-
personal luxury	E-body/V-body	-	-	Toronado	RivieraReatta	EldoradoAllante	-	-	-
compactcrossover SUV	Delta	HHR	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
compactcrossover SUV	S-body	-	Vibe	-	-	-	-	-	-
compact/midsizecrossover SUV	Theta	Equinox	Torrent	-	-	-	Vue	-	-
full-sizecrossover SUV	Lambda	Traverse	-	-	Enclave	-	Outlook	-	Acadia
minivan/SUV	U-body	Lumina APVVentureUplander	Trans SportMontanaAztek	Silhouette	TerrazaRendezvous	-	Relay	-	-
Rear wheel drive
GM reused some platform names between the front and rear wheel drive families.
Vehicle Type	Platform	Chevrolet	Pontiac	Oldsmobile	Buick	Cadillac	Saturn GMC	Hummer	Geo
economy	T-body	Chevette	T1000	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
compact coupe	H-body	VegaMonza	AstreSunbird	Starfire	Skyhawk	-	-	-	-	-
compact	X-body/K-body	Nova	Ventura/Pheonix	Omega	Apollo	Seville	-	-	-	-
compact	Z-body	Corvair	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
compact coupe/convertible	Kappa	-	Solstice	-	-	-	Sky	-	-	-
mid-size	A-body	MalibuChevelleEl Camino	TempestGrand PrixLeMans	Cutlass	SpecialCentury	-	-	Caballero	-	-
mid-size	G-body	Malibu	Grand PrixBonneville	Cutlass Supreme	CenturyRegal	-	-	-	-	-
mid-size	Sigma	-	-	-	-	CTS	-	-	-	-
mid-size	V-body	-	GTO	-	-	Catera	-	-	-	-
mid-size coupe	G-body	Monte CarloEl Camino	Grand Prix	Cutlass Supreme	RegalGrand National	-	-	Caballero	-	-
full-size	B-body/D-body	CapriceImpala SS	BonnevilleCatalinaParisienne	Delta 88	LeSabreRoadmaster	Brougham	-	-	-	-
full-size	Sigma	-	-	-	-	STS	-	-	-	-
full-size wagon	B-body	Caprice	Safari	Custom Cruiser	EstateRoadmaster	-	-	-	-	-
minivan	M-body	Astro	-	-	-	-	-	Safari	-	-
GT coupe	F-body	Camaro	Firebird	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
sports car	Y-body	Corvette	-	-	-	XLR	-	-	-	-
sports car	P-body	-	Fiero	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
full-size pickup	GMT800/GMT900	Silverado	-	-	-	-	-	Sierra	-	-
compact pickup	GMT300	S10ColoradoSSR	-	-	-	-	-	S15SonomaCanyon	-	-
pickup/SUVcrossover	GMT800/GMT900	Avalanche	-	-	-	Escalade EXT	-	-	H2 SUT	-
compact SUV Tracker	Sunrunner	-	-	-	-	Tracker	-	Tracker
full-size SUV -	-	-	-	-	-	-	H1	-
full-size SUV	GMT800/GMT900	TahoeSuburban	-	-	-	Escalade	-	Yukon	H2	-
mid-size SUV	GMT300	BlazerTrailBlazer	-	Bravada	Rainier	-	-	JimmyEnvoy	H3	-
mid-sizecrossover SUV	Sigma	-	-	-	-	SRX	-	-	-	-
full-size van	GMT600	Express	-	-	-	-	-	Savana	-	-*

EDIT: Sorry....FAIL ^^^^^^^^^^^:rofl:


----------



## TehStig (Jun 2, 2009)

RCK said:


> GM Management + UAW = bankruptcy ( about damn time )


Should have happened a long time ago.

GW Bush=FAIL

I am conservative mind you, don't flame.


----------



## fuz (Feb 6, 2002)

Analogous to the guns not killing people logic, blaming the cars seems a bit too easy. The people that brought those cars out to production should be the ones blamed. The terrible cars where just a symptom of the problems manifested by terrible management.

Likewise, good things shined though when the people were good.


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

I see nobody mentioned the great V-4-6-8 debacle ...


----------



## Rob325_in_AZ (Oct 22, 2004)

Team, I can't seem to get the link to work. Do you mind copy-n-pasting the article?


----------



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

wyb said:


> I thought the hummer division was profitable?


a chinese company is going to buy hummer

http://www.startribune.com/business/46745027.html?elr=KArks:DCiU1OiP:DiiUiacyKUUr


----------



## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah. The unions strong arming GM in the hey days when demand was high for usurious benefits had nothing to do with drowning the company. These legacy costs are what is killing the company. Management had no choice but to concede to the benefits back then or they would not be able to deliver any product and the UAW knew it and took advantage

I remember reading an article that it made no difference if they shut down an assembly plant when demand was low because they still had to pay the workers something like 95% of their base pay regardless - and it ended up that it was cheaper to build the cars and dump them on the market and rental companies than to idle a plant.


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

Rob325_in_AZ said:


> Team, I can't seem to get the link to work. Do you mind copy-n-pasting the article?


works for me :dunno: there's nothing to post, it has ten photo-links you click, sorry


----------



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Yeah. The unions strong arming GM in the hey days when demand was high for usurious benefits had nothing to do with drowning the company. These legacy costs are what is killing the company. Management had no choice but to concede to the benefits back then or they would not be able to deliver any product and the UAW knew it and took advantage
> 
> I remember reading an article that it made no difference if they shut down an assembly plant when demand was low because they still had to pay the workers something like 95% of their base pay regardless - and it ended up that it was cheaper to build the cars and dump them on the market and rental companies than to idle a plant.


there is nothing to stop management from building cars that people want to buy.


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Fast Bob said:


> Actually, the Corvair (second iteration, `65 on) was a GREAT car....compact, strong ,unibody, 4-wheel independent suspension, transaxle, boxer-six engine with HP options up to a 180-horse turbo, 2600 lbs., room for 4 adults, good trunk space....but Ralph Nader`s (basically false) book was released, and the Corvair was dead in the water.


Nader's book did kill the car. Too bad really.

If anyone had bothered to read past the first few pages of chapter 1, they would have found he said the '65 on Corvair fixed the safety problems of the earlier car.

I've always wondered why Unsafe At Any Speed didn't kill the VW Beetle.


----------



## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

wyb said:


> I thought the hummer division was profitable?


$4.00/gallon gas put an end to that.


----------



## Kandiru (May 3, 2007)

johnc_22 said:


> The Cadillac pickup is about the most retardulous idea for a car EVER. I openly laugh at people I see driving them and wonder how the got it for free because surely no one would buy such a ridiculous ride (right?).


You should see how many there are in Appalachia, these tobacco chewing ATV riding types lap them up like there is no tomorrow. Even higher education fails to disconnect them from their roots, as seen at the doctors lot at OSU Columbus.


----------



## MMMM_ERT (Mar 13, 2004)




----------



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

MMMM_ERT said:


>


are you going to be putting new logos on your camaro :dunno:


----------



## PBC///2.7 (Aug 14, 2008)

*.....*



mullman said:


> IMHO the 50-60s were their glory days.
> 
> But the Aztek?! WTH?
> 
> ...


that is a sweet car!!!!sorry did too much acid once again.....GM did too much as well or they thought about the "MARS program" would do well for us too...


----------

