# Klasse-ified!



## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

I should be put away for spending so much time detailing a practically brand new car, but what can I say. I got it really BAD for this car!

I just finished giving my almost three month old 330ci a complete and utter pampering from the ground up. Friday I washed it, Saturday morning I did a full clay treatment, buffed the hood with machine polish, then buffed the entire car with Klasse AIO using my PC 7424. That evening I hand applied Klasse HGSG coat one. Next morning coat two of HGSG, that evening coat 3. This morning I did coat one of P21S Concourse Carnuba, this evening coat two. I haven't rubbed anything this much since I was 13 years old. :angel: 

I'm hoping the slick surface will give me a slight edge at the track this weekend... u know less wind resistance. :thumbup: 

A few pics I took this evening. It wasn't the best day for auto photography, or roaming in the mountains. I had to follow these two Sherrif cars for 20 miles as they kept to the speed limit the entire way. They sure brake alot and the lead car couldn't seem to stay on his side of the double yellow lines. If he was a civilian I'd have reported him for possible DUI the way he was driving.


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## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

Nothing wrong with pampering a new car. I followed a similar process 6 weeks after I took delivery last January. No clay bar but full Klasse AIO and 3 coats of SG over a 3 day weekend.


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## Spartacus_33 (Dec 2, 2004)

jvr530i said:


> I should be put away for spending so much time detailing a practically brand new car, but what can I say. I got it really BAD for this car!
> 
> I just finished giving my almost three month old 330ci a complete and utter pampering from the ground up. Friday I washed it, Saturday morning I did a full clay treatment, buffed the hood with machine polish, then buffed the entire car with Klasse AIO using my PC 7424. That evening I hand applied Klasse HGSG coat one. Next morning coat two of HGSG, that evening coat 3. This morning I did coat one of P21S Concourse Carnuba, this evening coat two. I haven't rubbed anything this much since I was 13 years old. :angel:
> 
> ...


Very cool... and funny! Loved the comment about "13 years old". :rofl:

I'm still researching products. I've got it narrowed down (HA, sort of) to Zaino, or Klasse or Menzerna.

I ran a poll a few months back and the results showed that (those who responded) Klasse was the most popular product used.

I'm reluctant to use an orbital on my Jet Black paint...... and from what I've read Klasse is a little hard to buff off.

Anyone have comments on applying and removing AIO and HGSG *by hand*?


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

jvr530i said:


> I haven't rubbed anything this much since I was 13 years old. :angel:


 :bustingup:



Spartacus_33 said:


> Anyone have comments on applying and removing AIO and HGSG *by hand*?


No problem, and only SG (not AIO) can be hard to remove if you put it on too thick. I've never had the issues with it other people have, but I apply it to the applicator with a small 2 oz. spray bottle and use the wipe on/wipe off method.


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Spartacus_33
Anyone have comments on applying and removing AIO and HGSG [B said:


> by hand[/B]?


Sure, I do. I was against any buffers for the longest time because all I saw was swirly finishes that looked bad in direct sunlight. However, the Porter Cable 7424 RANDOM orbital buffer couldn't be any safer. It works just like a ROB sander. It vibrates and spins at the same time, but mostly it vibrates in a very tight circle. The beneifit of using this to apply cleaners/waxes that work with a machine is that it performes a rubbing effect that you'll never get with hand application. The more pressure you put on the pad, the slower it spins, so you can control it really well. It's hard to explain, but I got one on the advice of some folks in this forum and I'm glad I have it. I didn't have time to order a MF bonnet to use to remove the product or I would have. At the CCA detail clinic I attended a couple weekends ago the Meguire's guy said he uses one bonnet to buff product off his Suburban, one side per half of the vehicle. I applied with PC and removed with MF towels.

That said, you can also apply by hand, it just takes longer and more effort. AIO is pretty forgiving if you put it on too thick, but SG will punish you terribly if you do. I used the applicators that came with my order, a blue thing with a sponge inside and microfiber outside. I put a very small amount, less than a dime sized dribble of SG onto the pad and worked really fast at spreading it out working front to back, then side to side being sure to spread it thin and even. On Autopia they recommend a "whisper" of SG and that is excellent advice. Others recommend using a small 1oz pump sprayer that you can get from a beauty supply place to spritz the pad. Since I didn't have one of those I used the mentioned method with excellent results. I think the key is the pad cuz the sponge inside spreads out the pressure so you can apply an even coat. Using just a MF towel probably wouldn't give you the same even application.

When applied correctly, SG is very easy to wipe off. I was able to do the entire car in about 60 minutes. When applied thin it takes no time at all to dry. By the time you've put the bottle down you're ready to go back with a microfiber towel to wipe it off. And, if you happen to get it on too thick, spray with a QD product of your choice and wipe with a MF towel - this helps get the tough stuff off.

More guidance, if you think you're not putting enough on, you're doing it right. It's hard to re-train our thinking about waxing, that more is better, but it isn't in this case. Same goes with the P21S carnuba. Apply multiple thin coats for best results.

If you don't want to do the SG you don't have to. AIO provides protection on it's own. And to be honest, I don't know that my brand new paint showed more gloss on the third coat of SG than it did after the first. I was hell bent to go OTT on this detailing so I did all three coats. The best benefit I got was with the second coat of P21S. The shine became deeper and more focused. I will probably put a couple more coats of P21S on in the weeks ahead.

EDIT: I purchased one 16oz bottle of each AIO and SG and I've done 4 cars with it and still have more than over 1/2 the bottle of AIO left, and barely put a dent in the SG bottle. My container of P21S has been around since 2000 and I've used it countless times on 3 different cars and my motorcycle. I probably have enough left to do 5-10 more coats on my car before I need to buy a new can.


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## Spartacus_33 (Dec 2, 2004)

jvr530i said:


> Sure, I do. I was against any buffers for the longest time because all I saw was swirly finishes that looked bad in direct sunlight. However, the Porter Cable 7424 RANDOM orbital buffer couldn't be any safer. It works just like a ROB sander. It vibrates and spins at the same time, but mostly it vibrates in a very tight circle. The beneifit of using this to apply cleaners/waxes that work with a machine is that it performes a rubbing effect that you'll never get with hand application. The more pressure you put on the pad, the slower it spins, so you can control it really well. It's hard to explain, but I got one on the advice of some folks in this forum and I'm glad I have it. I didn't have time to order a MF bonnet to use to remove the product or I would have. At the CCA detail clinic I attended a couple weekends ago the Meguire's guy said he uses one bonnet to buff product off his Suburban, one side per half of the vehicle. I applied with PC and removed with MF towels.
> 
> That said, you can also apply by hand, it just takes longer and more effort. AIO is pretty forgiving if you put it on too thick, but SG will punish you terribly if you do. I used the applicators that came with my order, a blue thing with a sponge inside and microfiber outside. I put a very small amount, less than a dime sized dribble of SG onto the pad and worked really fast at spreading it out working front to back, then side to side being sure to spread it thin and even. On Autopia they recommend a "whisper" of SG and that is excellent advice. Others recommend using a small 1oz pump sprayer that you can get from a beauty supply place to spritz the pad. Since I didn't have one of those I used the mentioned method with excellent results. I think the key is the pad cuz the sponge inside spreads out the pressure so you can apply an even coat. Using just a MF towel probably wouldn't give you the same even application.
> 
> ...


Thanks guys...

So, SG is very liquid? You can pour it into a spray bottle and mist the pad?


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

Spartacus_33 said:


> Thanks guys...
> 
> So, SG is very liquid? You can pour it into a spray bottle and mist the pad?


Yes, it looks like milky water and is about the same consistency, but I've read that it doesn't spray well using larger trigger spray bottles. You need a small *pump* spray bottle. I happened to have one already but people say you can buy them for a buck or two at beauty supply stores.

And everything he said above is dead on correct IMO.  But for me, the third coat of SG made all the difference. It may not have for him because his paint was so new, but for me, the first coat looked good, the second coat looked like the best wax job I'd ever done previously, and the third coat was the "wow" coat. Keep in mind my car is Alpine white though. It takes a lot more to get a "wow" shine out of white and it will never equal the shine of of a dark colored car.


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

The other thing too is I only looked at the car in my garage. I have eight twin-tube 4 foot flourescent fixtures all loaded with color correct C50 bulbs. OCD baby!  Very good to make sure u got all the micro scratches out, but the reflection on the side of the car isn't as dramatic as it is in natural sunlight. 

Today I took it out at lunch, it's sunny, and the side of the car is like a mirror. I have not achieved this level of gloss ever. The effort was well worth it and I think on a black car your work will be even more rewarding.

BTW, I think I saw those little pump sprayers at Target in the cosmetics section where all the travel sized items are. I picked up a few small flip-top bottles to send some paint care products to my sister and recall seeing the pump type as well.


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## johnnygraphic (Jun 26, 2004)

Spartacus_33 said:


> I'm still researching products. I've got it narrowed down (HA, sort of) to Zaino, or Klasse or Menzerna.
> 
> I ran a poll a few months back and the results showed that (those who responded) Klasse was the most popular product used.
> 
> I'm reluctant to use an orbital on my Jet Black paint...... and from what I've read Klasse is a little hard to buff off.


Any 3 of those products would be great. Also, using the Porter Cable is AWESOME! I wouldn't worry at all about it. In fact, once you use it, you'll wonder why you've put it off for so long! It's very easy to use and very forgiving. It's not like you're using a sander on your paint job. Do you have another car (or a friends car) that you can offer to practice on?

One of the most important things to getting a great shine is the prep work. Clay & polishing. After that, everything else is icing on the cake.

Classic Motoring sent out a newsletter that showed a side by side comparison of the Menzerna FMJ vs the Souveran Paste Wax. I'll have to dig it up. The photos showed quite a noticeable difference!

Johnny


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

1Dreamer said:


> No problem, and only SG (not AIO) can be hard to remove if you put it on too thick. I've never had the issues with it other people have, but I apply it to the applicator with a small 2 oz. spray bottle and use the wipe on/wipe off method.


That's what I don't understand. Given that peopel seem to like Zaino and Klasse equally well, I can't imagine why you'd chooe Klasse. Zaino is ALWAYS easy to put on and remove. Also Klasse requires an extra step (ie AIO before you use the SG). With Zaino, you simply apply the Z2, let sit for half an hour, and wipe off. If you've mixed in the ZFX hardener, you don't even have to wait before you apply a 2nd and 3rd coat.

Yes some people wil do a AIO before Zainoing- that puts the two systems closer to each other.

The other Zaino beneft is that Zaino offers it's own line of Quick Detailing spray. With Klasse, you have to go to Sonus.


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

icemanjs4 said:


> That's what I don't understand. Given that peopel seem to like Zaino and Klasse equally well, I can't imagine why you'd chooe Klasse. Zaino is ALWAYS easy to put on and remove. Also Klasse requires an extra step (ie AIO before you use the SG). With Zaino, you simply apply the Z2, let sit for half an hour, and wipe off. If you've mixed in the ZFX hardener, you don't even have to wait before you apply a 2nd and 3rd coat.
> 
> Yes some people wil do a AIO before Zainoing- that puts the two systems closer to each other.
> 
> The other Zaino beneft is that Zaino offers it's own line of Quick Detailing spray. With Klasse, you have to go to Sonus.


Well, different strokes . . . .  but the reason I originally chose Klasse is because there seem to be so many products and steps involved with Zaino (including mixing products) and AIO/SG is a simple two step process. I wanted my car well protected for as long as possible without having to spend hours applying one product after another. Also, although AIO has a small amount of sealant in it, people don't usually use AIO alone as a protectant, but more as a paint prep/cleaner before they apply a wax or sealant like SG or a Zaino equivalent. Personally, I've never had any issues with removing SG at all, but I read everything I could on the application process beforehand and found it very easy and quick to apply and remove. I also use Sonus Glanz and the Spritz QD, but there are a couple of other retail QD's you can use over SG. Some people have even added SG to these QDs with good results.


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## jeff330i (Feb 2, 2002)

the thing that moves me from zaino to klasse is not only the 50 different products you have to decide between, but also that they keep on changing. Next month they may have ZFX PRO or something, whereas klasse has and will stay the same for years... nothing to decide on or update.


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

jeff330i said:


> the thing that moves me from zaino to klasse is not only the 50 different products you have to decide between, but also that they keep on changing. Next month they may have ZFX PRO or something, whereas klasse has and will stay the same for years... nothing to decide on or update.


It's also cheaper.  Autogeek is having a sale on it and I just ordered another 33.9 oz bottle of AIO for $28 and a 16.9 oz bottle of SG for $18. Many people don't know AIO can be used for many other things. I used it on the sinks, tubs, tile and counter tops in my bathrooms and have had people ask what I use to make it so slick and shiny. I hate rubber tub mats but bought one for the guest bathroom because the tub floor was so slippery I was afraid a guest might slip and fall.  I also used it on my frig and patio furniture. Here's some other things they list you can use it for as a cleaner/polish/protectant.

- Plastic surfaces

- Fiberglass - gelcoat and painted

- Furniture - finished wood, marble, synthetics, washer, dryer, etc.

- Glass - (although not recommended for windshield glass)

- All metals, aluminum, stainless steel, gold rings, chrome

- CD's - use soft cloth - microfiber


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*Quick opinion on which QD please*



1Dreamer said:


> It's also cheaper.  Autogeek is having a sale on it and I just ordered another 33.9 oz bottle of AIO for $28 and a 16.9 oz bottle of SG for $18. Many people don't know AIO can be used for many other things. I used it on the sinks, tubs, tile and counter tops in my bathrooms and have had people ask what I use to make it so slick and shiny. I hate rubber tub mats but bought one for the guest bathroom because the tub floor was so slippery I was afraid a guest might slip and fall.  I also used it on my frig and patio furniture. Here's some other things they list you can use it for as a cleaner/polish/protectant.
> 
> - Plastic surfaces
> 
> ...


1DREAMER:
I'll have to tell my wife about these AIO uses - may need to buy more:


I don't think I've gotten your opnion on this - I'd like it. Can you please make my life simple (or simpler). If I go into the local auto supply stores to buy a QD, they have:
Mother's
Two different Meguiars
Eagle

Which have you tried and which do you recomend - remembering that I already have put on the S100? I'm sure I can use one of these without going mail-order for Sonus or something else.


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## jeff330i (Feb 2, 2002)

1Dreamer said:


> It's also cheaper.  Autogeek is having a sale on it and I just ordered another 33.9 oz bottle of AIO for $28 and a 16.9 oz bottle of SG for $18. Many people don't know AIO can be used for many other things. I used it on the sinks, tubs, tile and counter tops in my bathrooms and have had people ask what I use to make it so slick and shiny. I hate rubber tub mats but bought one for the guest bathroom because the tub floor was so slippery I was afraid a guest might slip and fall.  I also used it on my frig and patio furniture. Here's some other things they list you can use it for as a cleaner/polish/protectant.
> 
> - Plastic surfaces
> 
> ...


lol. yeah i also used it on my moto razr just to protect it from getting scratched so much, and now it's so slippery it slides out of the carrying case i bought.


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## 1Dreamer (Oct 23, 2004)

rocky said:


> 1DREAMER:
> I'll have to tell my wife about these AIO uses - may need to buy more:
> 
> 
> ...


So are you saying I have a simple mind?  Kidding. No, you don't need to order Sonus. The reason some people do is because they are made to be compatible with Klasse, contain some of the same acrylic sealant and act as *boosters* to the sealant protection, but don't contain any carnuba or other ingredients that would interfere with the sealant's ability to bond with the paint for those who want the option to add additional coats of SG later. (I assume that's the same reason Zaino users order Zaino QD.) There are only a couple of other QDs that are said to be compatible with SG (but don't add any additional protection). Those would be (according to those on the Autopia Forum) Eagle One Wipe'nShine, Mother's Showtime and Meguiar's Final Inspection, but I understand Final Inspection has been discontinued - at least on a retail level. It still seems to be readily available on a mail order basis.

Since you use S100 carnuba over AIO, you are not limited in your choice of QDs and are probably better off using one WITH carnuba which will act as a booster to the S100. Unfornunately, I don't know which retail carnuba QDs are best since I don't use them and haven't paid much attention. The above mentioned QD brands have carnuba variations, but I don't know if they are the *best* available retail or if there are others that are better. :dunno:


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## Keith (Feb 27, 2002)

jvr826 said:


> I should be put away for spending so much time detailing a practically brand new car, but what can I say. I got it really BAD for this car!
> 
> I just finished giving my almost three month old 330ci a complete and utter pampering from the ground up. Friday I washed it, Saturday morning I did a full clay treatment, buffed the hood with machine polish, then buffed the entire car with Klasse AIO using my PC 7424. That evening I hand applied Klasse HGSG coat one. Next morning coat two of HGSG, that evening coat 3. This morning I did coat one of P21S Concourse Carnuba, this evening coat two. I haven't rubbed anything this much since I was 13 years old. :angel:
> 
> ...


You know Jeff, I always new you were a smart man, except for that 5er to 3er decision.  j/k

Anyway, I love the Klasse stuff myself, but I don't see any reason to use anything after the HGSG.
We had that Detail Day at my house 3 weeks before Bimmerfest and to this day my 10 year old Black car looks awesome (for a daily driver) and water just rolls off the car.
Usually after washing and drying (gas blower and big & little blue towel) the car gets a once over with Meguiar's Final Inspection 34.
I've been amazed by how well the Klasse stuff holds up.

Also, like you, once I used the Porter Cable, you will never see me doing this by hand again!

Just my "5" cents.


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## Spartacus_33 (Dec 2, 2004)

Keith said:


> You know Jeff, I always new you were a smart man, except for that 5er to 3er decision.  j/k
> 
> Anyway, I love the Klasse stuff myself, but I don't see any reason to use anything after the HGSG.
> We had that Detail Day at my house 3 weeks before Bimmerfest and to this day my 10 year old Black car looks awesome (for a daily driver) and water just rolls off the car.
> ...


Keith....

I'm seeing at some other sites (Autopia to mention one) that a carnuba should be used over AIO (on *BLACK * cars) to give it a less "*saran wrap*" look.

I've just about got it narrowed down to using AIO, but am leaning towards a carnuba after that. I'm hearing *Pinnacle Souveran * is best for Black. I'm also hearing that *Natty's Blue * is great for Black.

Comments anyone?


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*S100*



Spartacus_33 said:


> Keith....
> 
> I'm seeing at some other sites (Autopia to mention one) that a carnuba should be used over AIO (on *BLACK * cars) to give it a less "*saran wrap*" look.
> 
> ...


I used S100 after the AIO and it looks pretty good. I'll try one more coat. I'm seeing a shine, but it doesn't quite look like saran wrap or a real showroom mirror-finish. This was done by hand.


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## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

jeff330i said:


> the thing that moves me from zaino to klasse is not only the 50 different products you have to decide between, but also that they keep on changing. Next month they may have ZFX PRO or something, whereas klasse has and will stay the same for years... nothing to decide on or update.


Same here. Maybe I just didn't want the hassle or to spend hours or days researching Zaino products but Klasse seemed like a simple 2-step process, its made for German paints and it is long-lasting. Very easy decision for me.

I love AIO and I do use it on the glass with great results, especially for hardwater spots. After AIO I will do 1, 2 or even 3 coats of SG. And better yet, with a California Duster and Sonus Acrylic Spritz as a QD I only have to do a full AIO/SG routine twice per year or less (actually every 8 months since my car is garage kept).

I am squarely in the Klasse corner! :thumbup:


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