# Bird Poop from hell...



## gwells67 (Jun 20, 2003)

I had 5 coats of zaino on my car and it ate right through all of them!!! I've tried clay, buffing with Sonus FX-2 and a green pad....but it's still visiable. What's the next step to get this out? Looks like it is etched in....advise???


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

*Bird ExcrementLong)*

Bird Excrement:
(Or insect excrement like Gypsy moth, June bug, Honeybees, etc) contain highly acidic concentrates (uric acid) which if left for any length of time the will cause the clear coat to occlude (a non-transparent clouded area) 
and / or etching ( a depression in the paint or glass surfaces) so they should be removed without delay. Birds use gravel to help digest their food so grit and sand are some of the major components, which can cause scratching. Insect honeydew (sometimes mistaken for tree resin) excreted by aphids or scale insects that infest the leaves and branches is also acidic. Residue should be removed (see below) as soon as possible as it could compromise the clear coat.

Take your time and be careful with its removal, these acids should be removed and/or neutralized as quickly as possible. Using an IPA (isopropyl alcohol) a non-ammonia based (ammonia acts as an acid accelerant) glass cleaner, or a gel alcohol hand cleaner (Purell®) place a small amount onto the sap and the immediate area, let dwell for about a minute or so and then flush with water to rinse away any grit / sand / etc, or use detailers clay to encapsulate it, re-spray the area let it dwell for 2-3 minutes and wipe dry.

Avoid using a QD spray to flush residue, as they contain carnauba wax, which will seal the acid and not allow it to dissipate. Using an alkaline rinse of baking soda and water (to neutralize the acid) as soon as is practical is highly recommended, if the paint or glass surface has been etched the surface can be levelled with a suitable polish and then apply a paint protection.

The paint system is porous; when you add water and heat to an acidic substance it will erode the clear/paint system very quickly (the heat opens microscopic fissures in the paint allowing ingress, the water provides a carrier system for the acid, each time water is reintroduced the acid will be reactivated). The paint surface should be periodically neutralized / decontaminated (A B C System Decontamination System- www.autoint.com)

No wax or polymer sealant can provide a permanent shield against acidic bird excrement 
(Collinite 845 Insulator Wax is probably the most durable Carnauba wax product) this will provide enough of a sacrificial barrier to enable it to be removed quickly before causing too much damage to the paint film surface. 
JonM


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

gwells67 said:


> I had 5 coats of zaino on my car and it ate right through all of them!!! I've tried clay, buffing with Sonus FX-2 and a green pad....but it's still visiable. What's the next step to get this out? Looks like it is etched in....advise???


Clean it with alcohol and do NOT touch it (i.e. no wax, no sealant) for a couple of days.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Clean it with alcohol and do NOT touch it (i.e. no wax, no sealant) for a couple of days.


Ditto.

If this doesn't work then you'll have to wetsand the spot


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

If your clearcoat can't protect itself at aprox. 4 mils thick, there is no way any wax or sealant will stop bird damage.

There is a new clearcoat coming out on the market that is called CERAMICLEAR CLEARCOAT by PPG, hopefully this will help on our future new vehicles.

----
CeramiClear clearcoat is the first automotive clearcoat to use nanoparticle technology and raises the standard for combined resistance to scratches, mars and acid etch. The patented nanoparticle technology creates a highly cross-linked network at the surface of the coating for superior resistance to damage caused by day-to-day use, car washes and environmental hazards such as acid rain and tree sap.

http://www.ppg.com/car_autocoat/pressrelease_1_8_03_Ceramiclear.htm


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

Quote: ....superior resistance to damage caused by day-to-day use, car washes and environmental hazards such as acid rain and tree sap.


Both Daimler-Chrysler and Mercedes are useing CeramiClear. Note 'RESISTANT TO' it's also a very 'hard' paint, which makes it very difficult to remove etching, scratches, etc

Polishes that will help with this finish-Menzerna PO106FF and P085RD Polishes 
JonM


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## Spartacus_33 (Dec 2, 2004)

Alex Baumann said:


> Clean it with alcohol and do NOT touch it (i.e. no wax, no sealant) for a couple of days.


Any special kind of alcohol?


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Spartacus_33 said:


> Any special kind of alcohol?


Just rubbing alcohol.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Just rubbing alcohol.


I've found that Bacardi 151 makes for a good substitute in a pinch...


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

doeboy said:


> I've found that Bacardi 151 makes for a good substitute in a pinch...


Sheeshh :drink:


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Sheeshh :drink:


Some people are more likely to have 151 handy than rubbing alcohol.... :eeps: :rofl:


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

doeboy said:


> I've found that Bacardi 151 makes for a good substitute in a pinch...


bimmer on the rocks please....


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## rocky (Jun 30, 2004)

*After alcohol ...*



Spartacus_33 said:


> Any special kind of alcohol?


I've recently been a proponent os using rubbing alcohol after getting over my initial fear.

I have used alcohol with succsess for tree sap, so I'm assuming the same approach can be used for bird poop. I dab some on a cloth, and then try to wipe the area - not too hard. As a precaution, I then wash the area with car wash, and rinse it, and then reapply Klasse/wax, whatever you've previously used, since the alcohol may remove these products.


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## johnnygraphic (Jun 26, 2004)

rocky said:


> I've recently been a proponent os using rubbing alcohol after getting over my initial fear.
> 
> I have used alcohol with succsess for tree sap, so I'm assuming the same approach can be used for bird poop. I dab some on a cloth, and then try to wipe the area - not too hard. As a precaution, I then wash the area with car wash, and rinse it, and then reapply Klasse/wax, whatever you've previously used, since the alcohol may remove these products.


I had a NASTY bird spot on my hood of my black 4-Runner. I tried in the past to use the bug/tar remover to no avail. Tried to use some Intensive Polish and then the Swirl Remover. No budge. Still a nice lump of icky bird crap. Seemed to have bubbled the paint. Next, I tried to use clay. Seemed to take a little bit off the top. Then, I remembered what I read here and used some alcohol. That worked very nicely!!! It didn't get all of it off the paint. There is still a small mark on the hood. But you have to really know where to look for it. It worked wonders! I then followed up with Final Polish II and then topped it with Pinnacle.

Thanks to all!

Johnny


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## Spagolli94 (Jan 27, 2009)

I got hit the other day. The poo must have been there a while because it was caked on there pretty good when I noticed it. I tried washing it with Dawn, clay bar, using a buffer with Scratch X... It's mostly gone, but you can still see a hazy/bubbly spot embedded in the paint if you look for it. It's smooth to the touch though. Today I tried the rubbing alcohol. It didn't appear to do anything. I did not reapply any wax, in the hopes I could just let the spot breath for a while. Will bird etching disappear over time? I guess if it's not gone in a few months, a trip to the detail shop is in order? I'll probably do that in the fall so they can take care of all the summer bird damage at once.


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## MikeBothwell (Jan 20, 2009)

doeboy said:


> I've found that Bacardi 151 makes for a good substitute in a pinch...


Applied internally or externally?


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## Spagolli94 (Jan 27, 2009)

FWIW, I tried Vodka before the rubbing alcohol. Seems to be much more effective on me than the car.


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## Spagolli94 (Jan 27, 2009)

Update... A few hours after I applied the alcohol, I decided to give the Scratch X one more shot. It worked!!! The etching is 100% gone. There isn't even a trace left. I went ahead and applied a fresh coat of carnuba to seal everything up.


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## drivinfaster (Nov 24, 2007)

this is just 1 spot, on a car, that recieves *LOTS* of attention from the owner. just multiply this scenario by 10,000, add a few years, and viola, you have a weakened structure like the minnesota bridge. *yes, i know there were other factors such as heavier traffic and such, but these sorts of things tend to get 'reviewed' (apparently) as a matter of process, while birds on the other hand, tend to be largely ignored. 

our company does quite a bit of bird work (exclusions, trappings, nettings, and such), and i do not understand how some people act as if we are inhumane and evil when doing so. i guess they've never had to suffer from histoplasmosis, or any of the other nasty things these creatures can vector. 

this is also why i will not have *any* type of bird in my house unless it's next to the potatos and carrots...:angel:

now if we could only 'manage' seagulls...:eeps:


df


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## larry325 (Jun 12, 2009)

Alex Baumann said:


> Clean it with alcohol and do NOT touch it (i.e. no wax, no sealant) for a couple of days.


This worked like magic for me. Thank you.

Something interesting is that the ghost print of the bird dropping wasn't removed during the cleaning with an alcohol pad. When I went back to check on it an hour later, the print was completely gone. The wax was healed. :thumbup:

Awesome... From now on, I'm carrying alcohol disinfecting pads in my trunk.


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## lild (Sep 11, 2007)

bimmerguy said:


> If your clearcoat can't protect itself at aprox. 4 mils thick, there is no way any wax or sealant will stop bird damage.
> 
> There is a new clearcoat coming out on the market that is called CERAMICLEAR CLEARCOAT by PPG, hopefully this will help on our future new vehicles.
> 
> ...


this stuff is virtully impossible to buff. it dries so hard that if you wetsand it your going to repaint it. you can't buff it once you sand it.
my ppg rep. told me of one shop who used even after he beg him not to, the guy tried to wet sand and buff had no effect, and this was a day after painting it. the rep said he had to use 400 which looked like he didn't sand it, and the guy had to repaint it. i would not want this clear on my cars. my rep also said that some of the car manufactures are useing it. but it was really design for city busses, to fight against kids spary painting it.


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## Spagolli94 (Jan 27, 2009)

larry325 said:


> This worked like magic for me. Thank you.
> 
> Something interesting is that the ghost print of the bird dropping wasn't removed during the cleaning with an alcohol pad. When I went back to check on it an hour later, the print was completely gone. The wax was healed. :thumbup:
> 
> Awesome... From now on, I'm carrying alcohol disinfecting pads in my trunk.


Same experience. The effects of the alcohol are not immediate. It's hard to be patient, but it's best just to wait and let the spot work itself out. Mine required a quick hit of Scratch X to finish it off.


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