# Be Warned!



## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

Agree with consensus here on most counts, though I think someone with complaints about BMW has just as much potential to contribute here as we enthusiasts.

My sympathies are with x5 hater, who seems sincere in her frustration. However, several of her expectations are unrealistic, to include: thinking a more expensive vehicle means greater reliability (generally, because of more advanced technology and delicate systems, the opposite is the case, which is why $25k cars tend to be more reliable); thinking of the car in terms of its age rather than its miles (100k miles is high-mileage, whether it took two years to get there, or ten); not researching BMW and X5s in particular (BMWs, though reliable overall, are not as generally bulletproof as their Japanese counterparts, and if I recall, the X5s are thought to be less reliable compared to, say, a 3 or 5-Series); expecting free repairs for a non-recall, not-proven-defective part at twice the miles outside of warranty.

Too, a little more research at a critical earlier juncture would've explained to x5 hater the fiscal and mechanical virtues of finding an independent BMW specialist for all maintenance outside of warranty; it also might've kept her ahead of the curve in preventative maintenance for her X5.

Which leads me to an important, missing part of the story: how was this car, driven 100k miles in a little over two years, maintained and by whom? According to the on-board computer and at the dealer? Little less? Little more? Superbly maintained, well-fed on premium and preventatively looked after? Or neglected, by even sub-'Fester standards?

Knowing that might bring an insightful new dimension to why the catalytic converter and differential didn't last.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

Z4Bob said:


> Post deleted, flame suit is at the cleaners


Here, borrow mine. Now post...


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## 1985mb (Apr 2, 2008)

C-Bear said:


> Agree with consensus here on most counts, though I think someone with complaints about BMW has just as much potential to contribute here as we enthusiasts.
> 
> My sympathies are with x5 hater, who seems sincere in her frustration. However, several of her expectations are unrealistic, to include: thinking a more expensive vehicle means greater reliability (generally, because of more advanced technology and delicate systems, the opposite is the case, which is why $25k cars tend to be more reliable); thinking of the car in terms of its age rather than its miles (100k miles is high-mileage, whether it took two years to get there, or ten); not researching BMW and X5s in particular (BMWs, though reliable overall, are not as generally bulletproof as their Japanese counterparts, and if I recall, the X5s are thought to be less reliable compared to, say, a 3 or 5-Series); expecting free repairs for a non-recall, not-proven-defective part at twice the miles outside of warranty.
> 
> ...


Well said. The part about rightfully posting this here bears repeating. It's plainly contradictory to say people should do their research and otoh criticize people for posting their (presumably honest) experiences on a BMW forum. What use would any research have been if all enthusiast sites had been full of solely positive reviews?


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

I probably would be frustrated as well. 100,000 miles is not great but not without use either.
One of my employees also had a frustrating situation with a Subarau.
They were able to get a full refund of their vehicle which was more than they actually paid.
They too had to leave Subarau due to lack of confidence in the product.


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

1985mb said:


> Well said. The part about rightfully posting this here bears repeating. It's plainly contradictory to say people should do their research and otoh criticize people for posting their (presumably honest) experiences on a BMW forum. *What use would any research have been if all enthusiast sites had been full of solely positive reviews?*


After searching Google for about 22 seconds...

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x5/2007/consumerreview.html

Pretty sure she could have researched this puppy for 10 minutes and realized "Hey, maybe the X5 isn't quite as reliable as I am hoping..."

And to be honest, if she wants to vent, go do it on a car review site. You know, where these opinions and reviews actually matter.


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## 1985mb (Apr 2, 2008)

ncarter124 said:


> After searching Google for about 22 seconds...
> 
> http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x5/2007/consumerreview.html
> 
> ...


Her lack of prior research is a completely different issue than the plainly contradictory stance that some festers are taking, which is that people should do their research (elsewhere?) yet BF should aomehow be free of negative feedback. How will the lack of honest opinion help future researchers?

And who are you to decide that Edmunds is a better site to post a review than BF? and what makes it 'count' more there? Because there's a numberical rating there? So what.

I don't know what's worse: expecting a 100k mile vehicle to be repaired free of charge, or a bunch of self-proclaimed censors criticizing people for not effectively soliciting honest feedback earlier.

Fat load of good 'research' is when even supposedly enthusiast sites practice their own form of self censorship


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

1985mb said:


> Her lack of prior research is a completely different issue than the plainly contradictory stance that some festers are taking, which is that people should do their research (elsewhere?) yet BF should aomehow be free of negative feedback. How will the lack of honest opinion help future researchers?
> 
> And who are you to decide that Edmunds is a better site to post a review than BF? and what makes it 'count' more there? Because there's a numberical rating there? So what.
> 
> ...


What contradictory stance are you talking about?

Lack of honest opinion? I gave my honest opinion regarding the X5, as have many others.

Edmunds was just an example, like I said, I found that after about twenty seconds of looking, which is what the OP should have done in the first place, instead of writing this and pasting it into a BMW forum and then leaving. It would be an entirely different story if the OP had any other posts at all, or was even online to answer/clarify her situation. What I meant by "actually matter" is the typical vehicle buyer uses these sites to research potential vehicle problem areas, not enthusiast forums.


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

Who buys BMWs that are made in South Carolina? That factory is the worst for reliability.


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

hpowders said:


> Who buys BMWs that are made in South Carolina? That factory is the worst for reliability.


Somebody who does zero research about a vehicle and assumes the more they pay the more they get for reliability? :thumbup:


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## x5 hater (Aug 31, 2010)

To address a few comments: I did do research and consumer reports and others gave the X5 great reviews. I do feel you get what you pay for and in paying more you should expect more. I did have an entire exhaust system go on my Nissan Altima and Nissan fixed it at no charge. Mercedes offers a 10 year warranty on major issues like brake systems. I did purchase a new 07 and drove the car. I am certainly pleased that I am in the minority of BMW owners. As to research, maybe some other person will see this and think twice about purchasing one. It is not the ultimate driving machine I had expected.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

: popcorn:


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

hpowders said:


> This is why I made sure my 328i was built in Rosslyn, South Africa, BMW's best.:thumbup:


Based on what?:dunno: I'm sure many others want to know why your making that statement.
cheers
vern


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## x5 hater (Aug 31, 2010)

Boys , I'm sure you love your Beemer as we did , Erin is just trying to warn those who may be purchasing new cars they may actully drive , not for those that keep thier shiny cars in the garage 90 percent of the time . we drove ours. alot. If you don't drive your ultimate driving machine , this post you can disreguard . At the time of purchase , we did reserch the x5 and at first , consumer reports had good things to say about it . Then they changed thier minds as consumer reports on it came back , as ours was the first year for the body style . Beleive me , I never would have bought it if I had seen the posts and reports that now grace thier pages . But Erin will admit as well , it is still one of the nicest looking cars built and BMW makes a damn good looking car . I just wish I purchased I had bought a cheeper lawn ornament . But when it did run , and was'nt being fixed , it was truely a wonderful car to be in , and we hope you have good luck with yours , but ours was/is just a lemon . You guys have nice looking cars , and I hope they go better between major repairs than our x5 , stay away from that one and keep to your sedans and coupes . One of my customers once asked me , who's uncle owned a BMW Dealership , " How I liked the X5 ? " His reply to mine was , " I'm not surprised , I wanted the x5 too , but my uncle said to keep away from it as they have too many problems , thats why I bought the 525xi ." We I thought , better late than never . But maybe not for the next guy , and thus the post here . Sincerly , Jeff:tsk:


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

ncarter124 said:


> Somebody who does zero research about a vehicle and assumes the more they pay the more they get for reliability? :thumbup:


Probably. South Carolina BMWs have the worst record for reliability.

The new X3 will be built there and I will take a pass.


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

Well kudos for coming back! I am truly sorry about your experiences with the X5. Did you trade it or do you still have it? Just curious as to your current situation with it. Also, can you comment on what the 'other repair items' were? I think several of us are curious how a $10,000 bill came to be. Again, sorry for your luck.


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

hpowders said:


> Probably. South Carolina BMWs have the worst record for reliability.
> 
> The new X3 will be built there and I will take a pass.


I haven't heard this personally, but I don't doubt it. 'Made in the U.S.A.' is a term that generally makes me stay far away from the product.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

ncarter124 said:


> What contradictory stance are you talking about?
> 
> Lack of honest opinion? I gave my honest opinion regarding the X5, as have many others.


What I think 1985mb was referring to was the criticism x5 hater received from a few posters for starting a negative thread about her BMW experience on an enthusiasts site.

x5 hater posted perfectly fairly and legitimately, and as such even if her take is negative, shouldn't be discouraged from doing so.

I don't think 1985mb was pointing any fingers at you specifically.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

hpowders said:


> Who buys BMWs that are made in South Carolina? That factory is the worst for reliability.


I have no horse in this race, but I would love to read something legitimate proving or disproving this claim. Just making it doesn't cut it.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

x5 hater said:


> To address a few comments: I did do research and consumer reports and others gave the X5 great reviews. I do feel you get what you pay for and in paying more you should expect more. I did have an entire exhaust system go on my Nissan Altima and Nissan fixed it at no charge. Mercedes offers a 10 year warranty on major issues like brake systems. I did purchase a new 07 and drove the car. I am certainly pleased that I am in the minority of BMW owners. As to research, maybe some other person will see this and think twice about purchasing one. It is not the ultimate driving machine I had expected.


I remain sympathetic to your frustrations, and agree that your point of view is a valid and helpful resource to post here.

But I would like to know more precisely what your research was -- research can mean a lot of different things to different people, both in breadth and depth of legwork done.

Although you may "feel" that in paying more you should get more (in terms of reliability), your feelings don't match an easily researched and verified reality: more expensive vehicles tend to have more (and more expensive) maintenance and repair costs associated with them.

Tell us more about this Nissan. What do you mean the "entire exhaust system"? I have a hard time thinking that from the exhaust port on the engine all the way down to the tailpipes broke and was replaced gratis by Nissan. What exactly went, at what mileage, were you inside or outside of warranty, and was it a recall or proven-defective item? These kinds of facts are needed to make a meaningful comparison.

Please show me where Mercedes offers a 10 year warranty on their brake systems. Most car companies do offer similar long-term warranties against defective parts in the engine powertrain; I don't know anyone who'll replace your brakes at 10 years. Please point to where this is confirmed and I might consider a Mercedes next.

And we still know nothing about if and how you maintained the X5, and whether that might've played a role in the car's problems.


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

C-Bear said:


> What I think 1985mb was referring to was the criticism x5 hater received from a few posters for starting a negative thread about her BMW experience on an enthusiasts site.
> 
> x5 hater posted perfectly fairly and legitimately, and as such even if her take is negative, shouldn't be discouraged from doing so.
> 
> I don't think 1985mb was pointing any fingers at you specifically.


Yeah I wasn't sure but I didn't think they were pointing any fingers.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

x5 hater said:


> Boys , I'm sure you love your Beemer as we did , Erin is just trying to warn those who may be purchasing new cars they may actully drive , not for those that keep thier shiny cars in the garage 90 percent of the time . we drove ours. alot. If you don't drive your ultimate driving machine , this post you can disreguard . At the time of purchase , we did reserch the x5 and at first , consumer reports had good things to say about it . Then they changed thier minds as consumer reports on it came back , as ours was the first year for the body style . Beleive me , I never would have bought it if I had seen the posts and reports that now grace thier pages . But Erin will admit as well , it is still one of the nicest looking cars built and BMW makes a damn good looking car . I just wish I purchased I had bought a cheeper lawn ornament . But when it did run , and was'nt being fixed , it was truely a wonderful car to be in , and we hope you have good luck with yours , but ours was/is just a lemon . You guys have nice looking cars , and I hope they go better between major repairs than our x5 , stay away from that one and keep to your sedans and coupes . One of my customers once asked me , who's uncle owned a BMW Dealership , " How I liked the X5 ? " His reply to mine was , " I'm not surprised , I wanted the x5 too , but my uncle said to keep away from it as they have too many problems , thats why I bought the 525xi ." We I thought , better late than never . But maybe not for the next guy , and thus the post here . Sincerly , Jeff:tsk:


From addressing the posters in this thread as "boys", to implying that anyone not putting 50k miles a year on their _Bimmers_ therefore must own garage queens, there's no need for condescension.

Nothing but Consumer Reports has been mentioned by either you or your wife to describe your research. Did you use any other legitimate venues? I believe the X5 was known to be troublesome for the get-go.

And you refer to it being in the shop constantly, yet the only specific complaint posted by your wife was the catalytic converter and differential at 100k miles.

What was all the shop time for? Other breakdowns? Small items? Regular and legitimate maintenance?

Tell us about how the car was taken care of. Tell us how you think a BMW -- or any car -- _should_ be taken care of. Are you fastidious in your car care, average, or like most Americans, do you think of a car as a disposable, maintenance-free item that ought to run fine for 100k miles with nothing more than the occasional oil change?


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## SeeYal (Aug 28, 2007)

TrickTizzle said:


> You never told us the year of that car or if you bought it new or used.
> From what I've gathered reading your post, you bought a x5 new and drove it 100,000+ miles in about 2 years?


Probably for business, took the mileage as tax deduction, soo... the vehicle almost paid for itself in 2 years...


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

x5 hater said:


> *Boys* , I'm sure you love your Beemer as we did , Erin is just trying to warn those who may be purchasing new cars they may actully drive , not for those that keep thier shiny cars in the garage 90 percent of the time . we drove ours. alot. If you don't drive your ultimate driving machine , this post you can disreguard . At the time of purchase , we did reserch the x5 and at first , consumer reports had good things to say about it . Then they changed thier minds as consumer reports on it came back , as ours was the first year for the body style . Beleive me , I never would have bought it if I had seen the posts and reports that now grace thier pages . But Erin will admit as well , it is still one of the nicest looking cars built and BMW makes a damn good looking car . I just wish I purchased I had bought a cheeper lawn ornament . But when it did run , and was'nt being fixed , it was truely a wonderful car to be in , and we hope you have good luck with yours , but ours was/is just a lemon . You guys have nice looking cars , and I hope they go better between major repairs than our x5 , stay away from that one and keep to your sedans and coupes . One of my customers once asked me , who's uncle owned a BMW Dealership , " How I liked the X5 ? " His reply to mine was , " I'm not surprised , I wanted the x5 too , but my uncle said to keep away from it as they have too many problems , thats why I bought the 525xi ." We I thought , better late than never . But maybe not for the next guy , and thus the post here . Sincerly , Jeff:tsk:


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

hpowders said:


>


I'm surprised the 'Boys' part got this and not 'Beemer'.


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

ncarter124 said:


> I'm surprised the 'Boys' part got this and not 'Beemer'.


I stopped reading at "Boys". I'll take your word for it on the "Beemer" faux pas.

The last time "boys" seemed to be an acceptable greeting directed toward adults was in those old Roy Rogers/Gene Autry western movies of the 1940s-1950s.


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## cwinter (Feb 3, 2009)

x5 hater said:


> *Boys *, I'm sure you love your Beemer as we did , Erin is just trying to warn those who may be purchasing new *cars they may actully drive , not for those that keep thier shiny cars in the garage 90 percent of the time* . we drove ours. alot. *If you don't drive your ultimate driving machine *, this post you can disreguard . At the time of purchase , we did reserch the x5 and at first , *consumer reports* had good things to say about it . Then they changed thier minds as *consumer reports* on it came back , as ours was the first year for the body style . Beleive me ,* I never would have bought it if I had seen the posts and reports that now grace thier pages *. But Erin will admit as well , it is still one of the nicest looking cars built and BMW makes a damn good looking car . I just wish I purchased I had bought a cheeper lawn ornament . But when it did run , and was'nt being fixed , it was truely a wonderful car to be in , and we hope you have good luck with yours , *but ours was/is just a lemon* . You guys have nice looking cars , and I hope they go better between major repairs than our x5 , stay away from that one and keep to your sedans and coupes . One of my customers once asked me , who's uncle owned a BMW Dealership , " How I liked the X5 ? " His reply to mine was , " I'm not surprised , I wanted the x5 too , but my uncle said to keep away from it as they have too many problems , thats why I bought the 525xi ." We I thought , better late than never . But maybe not for the next guy , and thus the post here . Sincerly , Jeff:tsk:


Wow, Jeff, can you write anything that's coherent or at least not filled with typos every other word?

I highlighted all the questionable things. We drive our cars. Trust me. The majority of people on here LOVE driving their cars and do so. I would never purchase a car to garage it 90% of the time. What kind of topic is that even to introduce in this kind of thread?

If you based your purchase on reading CR I can't help you. They are merely a blip on the radar. Just like JDP, much of their statistics are compiled in ways that make little sense to me. You didn't do your research. Live with your mistake.

You did get more for buying the X5. Spend half next time and get a Ford Explorer. If you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't have gotten the X5 in the first place.

Even doing an Internet search is mostly silly if you look at forums. Sure, it's a good place to start, but think about it - do happy owners have any incentive to go online and praise their vehicles on a message board, unless they already are part of it or want to be part of it? People with car troubles like yourself have an incentive to post, and hence, most of the posts for reliability you will see are mostly negative. This is true for any car. Do a search online on your Quest for crying out loud. Do you honestly believe these vehciles never fail?

Again, you are an anomaly for this vehcile with the type of failures you experienced. That is unfortunate but no other manufacturer would have treated you differently. Perhaps a friendly dealer might have, but that would be rare as well. I also don't think you are telling us the whole story with (other repairs), and perhaps there were some items needing servicing you ignore that mitigated the catastrophic failures you had later on. Perhaps address those to get more credibility.

By the way, the Extended MB warranty you referenced earlier is optional and you have to add it. It does not come automatically after the 4yrs/50k mile warranty expires. You have to purchase it. You could have purchased a similar warranty for your X5 if you deemed it valuable to you.


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## Killjoy (May 13, 2009)

1985mb- I agree as much with you, forums can't be full of happy-go-lucky stories about great car experiences. Otherwise I wouldn't be here, I take joy in trying to help out with other people's problems concerning their cars. And yes, censorship is a terrible thing. But I don't appreciate when someone comes onto the 'fest with one post count, posts their experience, and signs off with



x5 hater said:


> I hope you will be able to use the information above as a training and product development tool.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jeff & Erin Phelan


This is simply copy and paste, and was meant to be written to someone else, presumably from BMWNA. Now, if x5 hater had chosen to actually preview what they posted here, and perhaps tweak it to fit their intended audience (an enthusiast forum) then my stance would be different. But I find it disrespectful that no time was invested to inform us, warn us, or seek our help here on the 'fest, but merely to spread the bad word as soon as possible through (presumably) as many chains of communications as possible. I have a hard time believing that bimmerfest is the only place that x5 hater posted their bad experiences.

In summation, if you have a problem with a BMW, whether the car, a certain dealership, or the entire company, my attitude has always been "come on down!" I welcome these types of posts on this forum, because of the value they have as information tools to the rest of us-and besides, sometimes this forum can likely help out the wronged party. But don't clog up bimmerfest by making an account and copying and pasting a fatty rant consisting of a hateful first post without taking the time to actually look what you're posting.

On the flipside, props to you, x5 hater, for actually coming back. I really thought that the chances of me seeing another post by you were as likely as kirstie alley sticking to her diet, but you proved me wrong, and I am genuinely glad that you did.


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## obmd1 (Jan 17, 2005)

cwinter said:


> Wow, Jeff, can you write anything that's coherent or at least not filled with typos every other word?
> 
> I highlighted all the questionable things. We drive our cars. Trust me. The majority of people on here LOVE driving their cars and do so. I would never purchase a car to garage it 90% of the time. What kind of topic is that even to introduce in this kind of thread?
> 
> ...


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## Tangent (Jan 18, 2004)

x5 hater said:


> ... I did have an entire exhaust system go on my Nissan Altima and Nissan fixed it at no charge.


At what mileage? I hope you're not trying to compare Nissan's service while in warranty (or barely out of it) to BMW's service while you've nearly doubled the covered mileage... 



> Mercedes offers a 10 year warranty on major issues like brake systems.


10 year warranties are limited to 100,000 miles or less so you'd still be out of warranty. No manufacturer offers strictly time-based warranties, and as far as I have ever seen, not a single one offers a warranty that covers you beyond 100,000 miles.

I still would like to know what the "other repair items" were, and how long you'd known there was a problem before going in for service.



> Boys , I'm sure you love your Beemer as we did , Erin is just trying to warn those who may be purchasing new cars they may actully drive , not for those that keep thier shiny cars in the garage 90 percent of the time


Yeah... My BMW is purring like a kitten with 158,000 miles on it because I keep it in the garage 90% of the time... :tsk:


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## Killjoy (May 13, 2009)

hpowders said:


> I stopped reading at "Boys". I'll take your word for it on the "Beemer" faux pas.
> 
> The last time "boys" seemed to be an acceptable greeting directed toward adults was in those old Roy Rogers/Gene Autry western movies of the 1940s-1950s.


Haha you should come down to the Galt, California cattle auctions. Every single time the auctioneer starts up, it's always "Boys, looks like we got us some real local cattle here! Start with dolla fiddy, dolla fiddy, do I hear dolla sixdy....." and so on. I almost peed my pants in laughter every time he said "boys."


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## 1985mb (Apr 2, 2008)

Killjoy said:


> 1985mb- I agree as much with you, forums can't be full of happy-go-lucky stories about great car experiences. Otherwise I wouldn't be here, I take joy in trying to help out with other people's problems concerning their cars. And yes, censorship is a terrible thing. But I don't appreciate when someone comes onto the 'fest with one post count, posts their experience, and signs off with
> 
> This is simply copy and paste, and was meant to be written to someone else, presumably from BMWNA. Now, if x5 hater had chosen to actually preview what they posted here, and perhaps tweak it to fit their intended audience (an enthusiast forum) then my stance would be different. But I find it disrespectful that no time was invested to inform us, warn us, or seek our help here on the 'fest, but merely to spread the bad word as soon as possible through (presumably) as many chains of communications as possible. I have a hard time believing that bimmerfest is the only place that x5 hater posted their bad experiences.
> 
> ...


Agreed. I value information, whether it's delivered with a positive or negative perspective. Now that the OP has come back, there are still some pressing questions that need to be answered: what kind of maintenance the x5 warrant and receive over its lifetime? If it was 'in the shop all the time' why wasn't it lemon'ed while still under lemon law purviews? Or why wasn't an extended warranty purchased if the decision to keep it was made despite previous problems? Why are Nissan or Merc repairs being discussed if they were under some original or extended warranty?

The subsequent posts (written by Jeff and not Lisa?) have actually gotten worse in tone. BMWs driven less than their 100k/2yrs are "garage queens"? :tsk:


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

Killjoy said:


> Haha you should come down to the Galt, California cattle auctions. Every single time the auctioneer starts up, it's always "Boys, looks like we got us some real local cattle here! Start with dolla fiddy, dolla fiddy, do I hear dolla sixdy....." and so on. I almost peed my pants in laughter every time he said "boys."


I guess those folks over there are used to it. The last thing I would ever do is begin a post on BF with "boys".


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

hpowders said:


> . The last thing I would ever do is begin a post on BF with "boys".


And why would that be? Some of us are "boys" at heart. LOL.
cheers
vern


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

vern said:


> And why would that be? Some of us are "boys" at heart. LOL.
> cheers
> vern


True. However, it is a term usually used as a greeting among friends. He was being familiar when it wasn't called for.


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## oilsschmoils (Jun 10, 2010)

Some people shouldn't be allowed to buy a biycle let alone a car. Ever heard of a maintenance plan and preventative maintenance? No, I guess not!:dunno:


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

dannyc9997 said:


> Clearly, you did little or no research before purchasing this X5. Had you done so, you would have known they are NOT reliable and that the dealership is the worst place in the world to have the car serviced. Next time, think before you make a purchase like this. Had you serviced the car at an independent shop, you would have saved thousands and thousands of dollars.


How the hell is a Cat 10k and a rear end 15k?


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

1985mb said:


> That's not really the point. A car, especially a mass-produced non-exotic car or SUV, should not be having cats and diffs fail at 100k. No matter how enjoyable it is to drive.


Basically every Subaru has its cat fail before 100k. And that's adjudged to be consumer reports most reliable!


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## ncarter124 (Dec 17, 2009)

pony_trekker said:


> How the hell is a Cat 10k and a rear end 15k?


From OP



> At that time we were informed that the catalytic converter needed to be replaced along with other repair items.


They have yet to detail what the 'other repair items' were, so who knows.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

pony_trekker said:


> How the hell is a Cat 10k and a rear end 15k?


Bless you, child, for you have never gotten a quote from the dealer.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

I laugh every time some posts that BMWs aren't good values. Duh. Is Ruth Chris a better value than Outback? Is Starbucks a better value than McDonalds? Is a Rolex better than a Casio? We buy more expensive items not for the value, but for other qualities. My '92 Saturn was the best value ever I had in a new car. In 250k miles, my total expenditures (including purchase, gas, maintenance, insurance, etc) was less than half of just the purchase price of my e46. And the Saturn never had silly problems like an electronic module failing in the first few months or the door trim failing (like in almost every e46 coupe). But to compare them as merely transportation devices is missing the point. My e46 is more fun to drive than any car I had previously. If you don't agree on that one point, then you're wasting your money on a BMW and should have bought Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, or Ford.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

cwsqbm said:


> I laugh every time some posts that BMWs aren't good values. Duh. Is Ruth Chris a better value than Outback?


No. Outback rocks, is cheap but the waits are tooo long. Plus that Bloomin Onion is Bonkers!



> Is Starbucks a better value than McDonalds?


Yes because it has a lot more caffeine and that's the only reason to drink coffee anyway.



> Is a Rolex better than a Casio?


I dunno, I never got that far -- farthest I got was a Tag I bought from Amazon that broke in two weeks. So I'm back to Timex, though, unlike the OP, I got a full refund.



> If you don't agree on that one point, then you're wasting your money on a BMW and should have bought Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, or Ford.


Not so fast, I had a 4runner that I nearly lemoned after 6 months but the dealer fixed it. I wish I would have bought that from Amazon.


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we hear back from Erin and Jeff. It seems their intention was to make known their experience with the X5 and their complaints, not to discuss the merits or lack thereof of their interpretation of events, or go into further (perhaps revealing) detail about them.

Maybe they're loading up for a big reply over the holiday weekend, but I doubt it.

I think the most telling indicator here is that they feel there is (or should be) a direct relationship between a vehicle's cost and its reliability; this is well known not to be the case, for reasons already discussed here. If you believe that, you don't really know cars or the automotive industry and are bound to be disappointed. Caveat emptor...

Honorable mention in telling indicators also goes to Jeff and Erin's apparent refusal to explain what other issues put the X5 in the shop, and what kind of maintenance routine they followed (or didn't).

Maybe the X5 is a troublemaker overall. Maybe they just got the lemon of an otherwise all right bunch.

But I'd guess, reading their posts, that this couple wasn't exactly heavy into maintenance, proactive or even prescribed. If I look into my crystal ball, I see 87 octane because, you know, it's cheaper and what's the difference?

And I swear, if I calm my mind and harmonize with The Force, I see a can of SeaFoam getting poured into a crankcase. Cleans everything out, right?

I have been known to be wrong, from time to time.


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

Time decay deletion.


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## Z4Bob (Jul 25, 2010)

C-Bear said:


> Maybe they're loading up for a big reply over the holiday weekend, but I doubt it.


I think Erin is typing right now. She seems to wear the man pants in their situation.:dunno:


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## Bremen Ben (Sep 1, 2008)

Having owned 2 bimmers and been around you "boys" for some time, I start to realize we "bimmer boys" are special kind of drivers. We are the kind who are slightly obsessive compulsive about the particulars of our car. From the gas, the oil, the wheels, the tires, the road noise, the engine sound, the exhaust notes, down to the decibels of the wind noise from the sunroof; we care about our cars and are crazy about keeping everything in optimal working condition. It's this car nuts quality that makes us a breed compatible with the high performance yet high maintenance queen that's called BMW.

Then there are those who completely have no emotional attachment or investment in their cars. Cars are just a tool that get them from point A to point B. For those folks, they could be put into a Ford, a Toyota, a Hyundai, a Porsche, and no even savor the performance difference other than the seats in the car or the color of the dashboard light. They drive the car, invest minimally in the upkeep, and rely on the car dying on them one way or the other to remind them of maintenance. I have a feeling the OP and her husband are among this demographics.


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## Z4Bob (Jul 25, 2010)

Bremen Ben said:


> Then there are those who completely have no emotional attachment or investment in their cars. Cars are just a tool that get them from point A to point B. For those folks, they could be put into a Ford, a Toyota, a Hyundai, a Porsche, and no even savor the performance difference other than the seats in the car or the color of the dashboard light. They drive the car, invest minimally in the upkeep, and rely on the car dying on them one way or the other to remind them of maintenance. I have a feeling the OP and her husband are among this demographics.


You seem to have met my wife!:rofl:


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## Killjoy (May 13, 2009)

Bremen Ben said:


> Then there are those who completely have no emotional attachment or investment in their cars. Cars are just a tool that get them from point A to point B. For those folks, they could be put into a Ford, a Toyota, a Hyundai, a Porsche, and no even savor the performance difference other than the seats in the car or the color of the dashboard light. They drive the car, invest minimally in the upkeep, and rely on the car dying on them one way or the other to remind them of maintenance. I have a feeling the OP and her husband are among this demographics.


Haha, you seem to have met the entire city of Santa Cruz


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## Radian (Aug 21, 2010)

Value?

*The 1995 Pontiac Grand Am:*
_Cost:_$1600 used, @ 90k 
_Maintenance: _New Tires, oil changes, F&R brakes, front suspension and brake lines on their way out
_Ownership:_ 36 mpg, $110 / 6 months insurance, awesome class II receiver hitch for hauling the bicycles, official U.S. stealth car that draws attention from no one not even the cops, factory service manuals suck, A/C and heater worked like a champ, totaled out winter of '06 for $2500, was worth more dead than alive...who knew?

*The 1991 BMW 535i:*
_Cost:_$4000 used, @ 135k
_Maintenance:_ New tires, oil changes, blown head gasket, battery, coolant system overhaul, replaced cylinder head, heater control valve, radiator....the list goes on. Previous owner handed me a stack of maintenance receipts as thick as a bible upon purchase.
_Ownership:_ 28 mpg on a _good_ day, $400 / 6 month insurance, uber-expensive euro hitch option that I refuse to pay for, First-class interstate cruise missile, easy enough to work on, A/C smells like who knows what, factory service manuals not much better than the Grand Am's, has had more engine and chassis overhauling than Morgan Fairchild but gets that "Damn, girl!" stare from everyone just the same.

*The 1992 Honda Accord:*
_Cost:_$3300 used, @ 131K
_Maintenance:_New tires, oil changes, clutch, timing belt, water pump, tune up, sound system replacement, CV axles, front wheel bearings, F&R brakes, clutch master & slave cylinder, complete suspension overhaul, radiator, battery....the list goes on.
Previous owners did little to no maintenance for the life of the car other than tires, oil & coolant changes, and some exhaust work.
_Ownership:_34 mpg in-the-city, $250 /6 month insurance, class II hitch is nice but not as sturdy as the Grand Am's was, put together like a fine fighter jet, handles like one too, Heater can cook a hotdog, A/C blows snow-flakes that don't smell like piss, freaking awesome factory service manual (should get some kind of award IMO), get's lots of looks from the younger crowds.

I would never be able to pull this off if I wasn't my own mechanic. Either way, the only car that actually had itself covered, was the Grand Am. :yawn:


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## kootz (Mar 14, 2010)

It's absurd to expect BMW to cover items this far out of warranty, regardless of how expensive the car was. Of course if it is a systemic issue which is an obvious design flaw like the HPFP, you would have a reason to be upset and BMW should cover it. Expensive cars have expensive parts. IMHO you are being completely unreasonable. 

Things break, if you're out of warranty, you pay to get it fixed. That goes for every product sold.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

x5 hater said:


> To address a few comments: I did do research and consumer reports and others gave the X5 great reviews. I do feel you get what you pay for and in paying more you should expect more. I did have an entire exhaust system go on my Nissan Altima and Nissan fixed it at no charge. *Mercedes offers a 10 year warranty on major issues like brake systems.* I did purchase a new 07 and drove the car. I am certainly pleased that I am in the minority of BMW owners. As to research, maybe some other person will see this and think twice about purchasing one. It is not the ultimate driving machine I had expected.


No, they do not. From the MB 2011 warranty booklet:

Warranty Coverage Extension (Electro-
Hydraulic Brake System Hydraulic
Pump)

The following applies to all *SL-Class vehicles*
equipped with the Electro-hydraulic
brake system.
The Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited
Warranty *coverage on the hydraulic pump
within the Electro-hydraulic brake system
is extended to 10 years with unlimited
mile*s from the vehicle's warranty start
date. *Other components of the Electro-hydraulic
brake system are not covered by
this warranty extention.*

MB's statement of warranty:

This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights which
vary from state to state.

EXCEPT FOR THE EMISSION SYSTEMS WARRANTIES, THIS IS THE ONLY WARRANTY
GIVEN WITH THE PURCHASE OF A MERCEDES-BENZ VEHICLE. THE IMPLIED *WARRANTIES
OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE
LIMITED TO THE FIRST TO OCCUR OF 48 MONTHS OR 50,000 MILES* FROM THE DATE
OF INITIAL OPERATION OR ITS RETAIL DELIVERY, WHICHEVER EVENT SHALL FIRST
OCCUR. DAIMLER AG, MERCEDES-BENZ USA, LLC, MERCEDES-BENZ U.S. INTERNATIONAL,INC,

MERCEDES-BENZ RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT NORTH AMERICA, INC.
OR THE AUTHORIZED MERCEDES-BENZ CENTER NEITHER ASSUME NOR AUTHORIZE
ANY PERSON TO ASSUME FOR THEM ANY OTHER LIABILITY IN CONNECTION WITH
SUCH VEHICLE. NO PAYMENT OR OTHER COMPENSATION WILL BE MADE FOR INDIRECT
OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGE SUCH AS DAMAGE OR INJURY TO PERSON OR
PROPERTY OR LOSS OF REVENUE WHICH MIGHT BE PAID, INCURRED OR SUSTAINED
BY REASON OF THE FAILURE OF ANY PART OR ASSEMBLY WHICH MAY BE
REPAIRED OR REPLACED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS OF THIS WARRANTY.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential
damages or limitation on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitation
may not apply to you.

At last, your vehicle was *20,000 miles* beyond the federally mandated emissions controls warranty.


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## HG132 (Feb 26, 2007)

I've had some major issues with my 335cxi--both the 2009 and the '11 and BMW has done right by me both times.

I have some empathy for the op due to the repair costs involved; however, these are expensives vehicles. If you are out of mileage--get an extended warranty prior to the 3/50k expires-runs out.

The dealership I lease my vehicles from has not referred me to BMWCS. They have handled everything from start to finish. If the issue is fair and clear, dealership management intercedes and BMW will usually honor the request. In the op's case it sounds like the dealership didn't want to bite the bullet.


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## LX-biker (Mar 25, 2008)

Such posts make me cry.....
What about Honda consuming "normal" 1L/1000km of oil, Lexus with failed brake master cylinder at 51K miles, Infinity/Nissan sucking catalytic dust into intake and engine kaput, brand new Cadillac consuming more oil tha gas, low mileage Camry with torn front lower ball joints, same for Honda accord, Toyota burned engine because accelerator stuck... I can keep the list going, and it's from friends real stories, not even from the web!!!!


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## gtxragtop (Feb 25, 2008)

x5 hater said:


> To address a few comments: I did do research and consumer reports and others gave the X5 great reviews. I do feel you get what you pay for and in paying more you should expect more. I did have an entire exhaust system go on my Nissan Altima and Nissan fixed it at no charge. Mercedes offers a 10 year warranty on major issues like brake systems. I did purchase a new 07 and drove the car. I am certainly pleased that I am in the minority of BMW owners. As to research, maybe some other person will see this and think twice about purchasing one. It is not the ultimate driving machine I had expected.


Over the years I've been burned by consumer reports so many times I now ignore their advice. It is more often incorrect than correct. As for reliability of a vehicle, they can only cover reliability of older vehicles with years/miles on them. From that they project how the new vehicles should be able to perform. This is nearly worthless information since manufacturers are constantly updating and cheapening to remain competitive and make more money.

Cats can go around 100K miles. Not unusual. BMW does not use different materials than other manufacturers. What they do, it package it into an expensive replacement part. 
BWM= Bring My Wallet. Nothing at the dealer is cheap, and many parts on luxury vehicles are inflated in cost to bring in more profit. Last night my buddy was bitching about his 2001 Dodge Ram 2500. The sensor that is used by the speedometer and rear ABS brakes went. $500 for a part that fits in your palm and weighs nothing. So he finds that he can buy a part at a junk yard for $50. EXCEPT that the bastards at the factory program the VIN into this part and it will not operate without the correct VIN number AND......... The VIN in this part is a one time programmable entry. Programmed at the factory, Can't program it a second time. No choice but to spend the $500. And the part is on backorder for 2+ months.

As for the diff? Did you pull any loads/trailers? If yes, then did you replace the diff fluid on a regular basis? When your vehicle was serviced, did they check the fluid levels of the diff for example to insure it was full? IF it was changed, are you sure that the proper fluid was used?

Sorry to hear your woes. It certainly sucks, but you can get a vehicle that lasts for a long time, or one that seems to have continual issues from the same manufacturer. My brother in-law bought a new Nissan Altima 5 years ago. He always bought hondas previously and had good luck with them. He properly maintains his vehicles. He went through 2 automatic transmissions, in 100K miles, the first on Nissan, the 2'nd on him. Then the AC went for another $1200. He got rid of it before something else went.


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## gtxragtop (Feb 25, 2008)

pony_trekker said:


> How the hell is a Cat 10k and a rear end 15k?


Not sure if the is 6 or V8 X5, but on the 6, the cats are less than 1K for each

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=FE43&mospid=50042&btnr=18_0690&hg=18&fg=10

02	Rmfd exhaust pipe with catalyt.converter	ZYL. 4-6 ULEV2	1 18307524768	$813.44	
03	Rmfd exhaust pipe with catalyt.converter	ZYL. 1-3 ULEV2	1 18307558652	$813.44

And the V8 is...

01	Rmfd exhaust manifold with catalyst	ZYL.1-4	1 18407568013	$1,270.49	
02	Rmfd exhaust manifold with catalyst	ZYL.5-8	1 18407568014	$1,270.49

Rear axle assembly

Important!
Note Repair Manual
Important!
No fluid in system 
01	Rmfd final drive	I=3,91	1 09/2009	33107552530	$1,597.17	+core
only in conjunction with 
01	Rmfd final drive	I=3.91	1 09/2009	33107602986 
only in conjunction with

Perhaps the stealer is screwing you as they often do.


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## HoustonScott (Sep 19, 2010)

All the cat's are under warranty for 100k so this car had more than 100k on it. That seems fair to me. The rear end going out sounds like fishy to me. Not sure what the real story is here but there is something we don't know. An accident maybe, something we are not being told...Fishy....

HS


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## obmd1 (Jan 17, 2005)

sadly, this OP came here neither to have a conversation, or learn anything. One would suspect this is how she got where she is with this car to begin with.


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

I can not sleep reading this thread....Wake up sweat in the middle of the night thinking my car might be break down.
Knock on da hardest wood. May BMW fairy protect me and my car.

Being serious!


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## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

obmd1 said:


> sadly, this OP came here neither to have a conversation, or learn anything. One would suspect this is how she got where she is with this car to begin with.


This.

/Thread


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

I have a 2008 BMW 328xi coupe. Today an error message came on telling me "Brake lamp malfunction." How can a $47,000 car have brake lights go bad in just 3 years? Another message came up too telling me "Fuel level low." $47,000 and I have to keep track of things like fuel and light bulbs?

I'll never buy another BMW.

Whoops, forgot my html codes: [sarcsm] [/sarcasm]


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## Hu99 (Aug 29, 2010)

pony_trekker said:


> I have a 2008 BMW 328xi coupe. Today an error message came on telling me "Brake lamp malfunction." How can a $47,000 car have brake lights go bad in just 3 years? Another message came up too telling me "Fuel level low." $47,000 and I have to keep track of things like fuel and light bulbs?
> 
> I'll never buy another BMW.
> 
> Whoops, forgot my html codes: [sarcsm] [/sarcasm]


[RIMSHOT] Badda-boom [/RIMSHOT]


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