# Anyone ever do any SCCA racing?



## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

So I'm just starting to toy with the idea of getting into some club racing of sorts. Maybe get myself an old, cheap E30 325 or something. I have a vague understanding what the BMW CCA club racing is about, mostly from that recent Roudel article. Sounds like fun. But if I'm going to get an old beater for learning how to race, and the occasional actual race, I figure I should look into local SCCA racing. To get more time actually driving and such. I've read lots of the SCCA web pages, but I don't know what's really involved. They mostly have rules and categories listed, types of events, etc. They don't have much posted with regard to what types of cars are _actually_ raced most often and such. Their pages mostly talk about purpose-built race cars. 

So is there really fun to be had with regular cars that are not purpose-built for racing? How much work do you need to put into them (e.g., roll cages, etc.) before you can do racing schools? And races? What's a good car to start with (even if it's not a BMW, I don't care)? What's the racing really like? How often, in a given area, can you actually race without having to travel too far? What does this all involve? I'm just trying to get a feel for what this is all about. Thanks.


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## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Have you done any Driver's Education events in your street car? Any other performance driving experience?


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

DannO said:


> *Have you done any Driver's Education events in your street car? Any other performance driving experience? *


I did a BMW CCA driver school this past fall. I'm doing another one in 2 weeks. And another one in June. I also did a few autocrosses last summer, but I don't feel like I learned a thing from those. The driver school at the track was much more educational for me.

So I have pretty close to zero experience at this. But, so far, it seems quite fun. And I can see myself wanting to try the race thing once I get proficient at the track. Looks like loads of fun. So I'm trying to collect info on it.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

Jon, unless you have a lot more natural talent than 99.9% of the population, you should try get some more DE events under your belt. I would guess that most people have dozens of track days under their belt before they get into racing. If you aren't learning anything at the events you are going to, you may need to find some different events...some are geared to giving cheap lap time and minimal instruction and others, such as BMW CCA events are the opposite. Many racers are instructors at these events, so when you are driving in the advanced group with them, you can gauge your abilities relative to theirs in terms of how well you can keep up with them. Additionally, you typically need to have a racing license which you can get through a formal racing school such as Skip Barber or Bertil Roos after completing a 3 or 4 day racing school. 

IMO, there is no substitute for seat time and good instruction. Pick up some books as well. I like one called Going Faster: Mastering the art of race driving.

When you are ready to race, you might check into NASA, which is a sanctioning body similar to SCCA.

Good Luck


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

JonW, with all due respect, and as StahlGrauM3 said, I would attend MANY more driving schools before even considering racing. If you do start racing, I would recommend doing it in the BMW CCA, as they do not allow ANY kind of car-to-car contact, just as in vintage racing. Most of the BMW CCA racers are true amateurs and fans of the marque, and baging cars is definitely not part of the equation for them.

Additionally, I would recommend taking the racing school offered by Driving Concepts (www.drivingconcepts.com), which is a lot less expensive and time-consuming than the other schools recommended by StahlGrauM3, but which is absolutely top notch. I have taken that school and cannot praise it enough.

Whatever you decide, have fun! :thumbup:


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

StahlGrauM3 and Raffi,

Thanks for the responses! Some thoughts on what you wrote:

No, I have no natural talent for driving. I'm just an average schmo. I totally understand that I need _many_ more driving events before I can race. And that I'll need a racing school (or many) as well. 

I can see myself wanting to try the racing school once I've got 10 or 15 driver schools under my belt, even if I never try real racing. Looks like lots of fun. I don't like the idea of bringing my street car to a driving school (I'm SOL if that gets wrecked). Do you guys use your regular cars for that? For a racing school, an old car starts may look appealing (e.g., E30 325). Do you need the full safety equipment (roll cage, Nomex suit, etc.) for a racing _school_? 

I definitely learned tons at the driving school I was at. (Probably the thing I learned best was how little I know about driving!  ) And really enjoyed it a lot. That's why I'm signed up for more schools. It was just the autocrosses that I didn't feel like I learned anything from. But I think that was a function of not getting much for pointers from the people there. (Probably my fault for not asking enough questions.) 

BMW CCA looks like an excellent place to start racing, like you said, because it seems to have such an emphasis on safety. But there's only one race a year in my area, so I was just looking at SCCA for more days to go out without having to travel too much. I'll have a look at NASA. 

I'm not sure that I'll want to do the whole racing thing. I can see the appeal. But if I do want to try it out, it'll require tons of research ahead of time. So I figure I can start asking questions and collecting info now. In the mean time, I'm happy to go to the track, do the driver schools, and burn through tires and brake pads.  

Thanks.


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## JonW (Jan 6, 2002)

After doing a bunch more driver schools, I'll probably want to try out a racing school. Even if I never actually get into racing it looks like it'd be fun. So some related questions on racing schools...

A racing school seems like it would provide a higher chance of wrecking a car than a regular driving school. Do you folks use your regular cars for a racing schools? Or get an older, cheaper, beater car that you wouldn't cry for if wrecked? And do you need the full compliment of safety gear for a racing school (e.g., roll cage, nomex suit, etc.)?


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## jaramill (Feb 20, 2002)

I would assume that at Driver Education schools such as those sponsored by the BMWCCA is that YOU bring your own BMW. And yes I do know that BMW CCA events are highly safety oriented and no "bumper-to-bumper" driving ala NASCAR. So I would feel safe in bring my car to DE because my car's insurance is in effect since there is NO TIMING.

A racing school, I'd bring a dedicated track car if I had one.
As for autocrossing, you learn if you have good instructors and BMWCCA ones are good. What I learn from the course is actually visualizing the course in my head and when to brake and turn in properly, adjusting tire pressures and driving smoothly.

Other than that....JUST HAVE FUN! And get ready to support this fun, yet expensive habit. 

Gio


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

JonW, great points, and I commend the fact that you know your limits.

As far as the DE and racing schools go, I use my own car there. As Gio said, the DEs should be no issue because your insurance should be in effect. All bets are off at the racing school, though, but the one I have attended (through drivingconcepts.com) was extremely safe, and consisted mainly of on-track exercises to introduce you to situations you would encounter during a normal race - and NO contact allowed there either!


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## 330iGT (Feb 1, 2003)

I'd recommend a Miata, they are cheap, fun, easy to come by, and cheap. You can probably find a decent one with the torsion(sp?) LSD that costs less than 4500. 

If you really want to increase your driving skills, i'd suggest spending that money on a kart. The learning that takes place in a kart is priceless. Although karting is something different all together and is probably not what you're looking for at the moment. 
You can take your own car, but it's going to become very expensive maintaining your car in a perfect track condition. That's not including the chance that you may crash your car, then you're pretty much out of luck. 

Everything also depends how much money you have to spend and how much time and effort you can put in. I'd also say the younger you are, the easier you will adapt to it.

I personally wouldn't take my only/primary car to an actual race and even most of these schools. Yes the layout is safe, and safety is their main priority, but S*** happens and going 100+ MPH doesn't help either. Get a cheap car so you won't be disappointed if something does happen. It doesn’t matter how good of a driver you are, or think you are, accidents happened regardless if they are your fault.


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## jaramill (Feb 20, 2002)

Hey Raffi what's up? You going to Bimmerfest? I'll be at the LA meeting location in Encino, Saturday morning. I'm ready to do some heavy autocrossing this season and will be going to lots of SCCA auto-x in addition to the BMWCCA ones. Do you go to SCCA Solo2s?

Gio


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

jaramill said:


> *Hey Raffi what's up? You going to Bimmerfest? I'll be at the LA meeting location in Encino, Saturday morning. I'm ready to do some heavy autocrossing this season and will be going to lots of SCCA auto-x in addition to the BMWCCA ones. Do you go to SCCA Solo2s?
> 
> Gio *


Hi Gio,

I will definitely be at the 'fest on Saturday and we can chat then. I am going pretty early, before the SFV caravan, because I need to help a friend of mine set up a vendor booth.

I don't do any SCCA solos, as I have my plate full with the BMW CCA track events (and instructing there). I will also start club racing next year - my friend just bought an ex-PTG prepared E36 M3, so I am sure I will have lots of fun with it. I can tell you a lot more about it on Saturday. See you then.


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## jaramill (Feb 20, 2002)

Wow...an ex-PTG prepped (E36) M3? That will be awesome to drive. Can't wait to hear about it. What booth will you be at so I know to look for you? After doing Solo2s, then I'll get into driving events and perhaps you can be my instructor.

Gio


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

Gio, I will be at VinceTopazBlau's Paddle Shift Retrofit booth/table. See you on Saturday.


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