# 330i ZHP Idling Problem



## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

hockeynut said:


> Must be something in our Austin air
> 
> I have a 330cic 6spd and have the same problem. 2 DME reprograms haven't helped.
> 
> ...


I have the same problem on my 330cic 6sp. Car has stalled a few times, mainly when starting or moving slowly in parking lots, but the idle problem generally occurs after driving a few miles and then being stuck at a long stoplight.

Dealer has checked twice and no fault codes or repeat performances when they were driving. Inspection I is coming up, so I'll ask them to check again then.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

I'm happy to hear that plenty of people are having this issue. Better chances that BMW will come out with a fix.


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## Evanzhp (May 31, 2003)

Last week I was at about 4500 miles. Once after just starting and had driven about 4 blocks I stoped before leaving my subdivision. While stoped, it did do a 700rpm to 500rpm drop. Never before or never after.

Also in December when it was about 50 degrees outside and the car had set for a week, I had a terrible time getting the car to start. It made loud, almost explosive sounds, then started with a poor, ruff idle. It ran for about 20 seconds and went away.

Otherwise no problems and runs great the rest of the time!


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

ff said:


> Spent the last ~10 days down in Florida with my 330, and it stalled 15-20 times while I was there. Now back in MN and haven't had a single problem. It's something relating to the warmer weather.
> 
> I brought my car in to a Tampa BMW dealer for the 15K service, and to have them try to diagnose the stalling/idling problem. "Couldn't duplicate" excuse again. It was Christmas eve, and wasn't in the mood to stick around the dealer all day. I'll just wait until summer here, and bring it back in to the local dealer, who, by the way, has been unsucessful in "duplicating" the problem on a multiple attempts.
> 
> Not bad for a $40K+ subcompact car in the 21st century


Wow, almost the same thing happened to me! WHen I was driving up from Florida on I95, my car stalled out 4-5 times with-in 20min! I was stuck in traffic and when I was in neutral just sitting in traffic it stalled twice. When I started going with the clutch in in first gear it stalled 2 more times! Then After traffic cleared I was crusing at about 30mph, it died again!! It seems like when the car rides hot, it happens more frequently. It hasn't stalled up in NY since last summer, but my dle is still bouncing all over the place. I took it into BMW of Manhattan and they had the car for 3 days and could not "reproduce" the problem 

I want to bring it BaysideBMW where I bought the car, but am afraid I will hear the same. After all these complaints and posts I really can't understand why BMW has not yet addressed and began to resolve this issue. What a dissapointment BMW!!!


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

Evanzhp said:


> Last week I was at about 4500 miles. Once after just starting and had driven about 4 blocks I stoped before leaving my subdivision. While stoped, it did do a 700rpm to 500rpm drop. Never before or never after.
> 
> Also in December when it was about 50 degrees outside and the car had set for a week, I had a terrible time getting the car to start. It made loud, almost explosive sounds, then started with a poor, ruff idle. It ran for about 20 seconds and went away.
> 
> Otherwise no problems and runs great the rest of the time!


I've had that happen at stoplights. It happened yester with 30F weather, so it is not a summer thing for me.

That slight dip is only a niussance, nothing more. I've never had it stall once. And my car has a built date of early March 2003.


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## eluder (Mar 4, 2003)

Well. I've been having the idling/stalling problem for a while. It happened last week and I looked over and noticed I have my Sony F717 with me. I caught about 2 minutes of the idle dipping on video. I've got 15K services in 1500 miles, so i'll be taking that video with me to show him. Withing the course of about 2 minutes, it dips 4 or 5 times. Same thing happens no matter the time of year or fule brand.


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## Iniquity (Sep 3, 2003)

maybe just to play it up a bit.. ease up on the clutch a bit to actually make the car stall completely .. :dunno: heheheh... mine stalled today..again..  .. it's always like a bumper-to-bumper traffic thing for me.. OR if I park the car for maybe 30 minutes and start driving again.... i'm positive it's heat related.. like heat soak or something.. I wonder if the new chip they're using in ZHPs doesn't function correctly under high enough temps..

wish I had my digital cam when the car stalls so I could record it.. :tsk: ..

i'm just glad that usually when it stalls out my car is either in neutral or I have the clutch compeltely in... so the vibration/harmonics doesn't harm my tranny.. at least I don't think it would if in neutral or with the clutch in.. :dunno:


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## Ashe too (Dec 22, 2001)

Mine's in the shop for this problem right now. Took it in on Friday and haven't heard back from them yet. I've had the idle stumble/fluctuation problem with the car hot and cold but only with the car either at an idle with the clutch depressed, at an idle in neutral or when moving slowly in 1st or Reverse immediately after I depress the clutch. The engine will idle rough for a moment, then RPM will drop precariously low (say 200 - 400 RPM), and sometimes outright stall. I'll post outcome when I get the car back.


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## leswong1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*04 330i ZHP*

My 04 330i ZHP just turned 2000 miles today and the idling problem came up. Engine light came on and car started to putter. It's on a tow truck to the dealer. I will update you with details.


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## kbs (Jun 5, 2003)

*OBD2 devices...*

I just saw this review of a neat OBD2-recording gadget:

http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/carchip-ex-review.html

Seems like just the thing to help document these intermittent problems which the dealer "can't reproduce". Wouldn't it be great if a dealer had one of these that they loaned out to people who had intermittent problems? Let the customer drive around for a few days, then bring it back. Check all the results of their actual driving style and see what conditions lead to the problem... then fix it.

-kbs


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## msp_guy (Feb 10, 2003)

*Me too*

Well, here's another data point. This one from Minneapolis (I know FF is from here, too - but he was experiencing the problem while in Florida).

Squence of Events:
(8300 miles, 03/03 production 330xi w/step)

1 - Friday evening 02/13/04
While on the way home from work (at highway speeds), the Check Engine light comes on. Called the dealer from the car to see what's up & when can I get in? Was told that March 3rd was the earliest I could get in and grab a loaner. Was told that the engine light shouldn't be much of an issue - 9 times out of 10 it's just an air filter or sensor or something..? OK, scheduled appt. for March 3.
(BTW - for those keeping track, the weather was sunny, about 25F and no precip)

2. Saturday afternoon 02/14/04.
Not driving particuparly hard, stop & go traffic. Had to stop unexpectedly hard due to the car in front of me slamming his brakes. From that point on, car began to sputter. I feared that with the stop & go traffic & would surely stall, but managed to keep my RPMs up. When back up to full speed (50-60mph), the car was still sputtering & hesitating to accelerate. Call dealer again, but service dept. closed. Talked to sales manager & told him the situation about being told to wait for March 3 service appt, but that now my car was clearly not operating in a safe manner. He told me to come on in right away and he'd swap me out with a loaner. This at 5pm on Saturday. I'm very please with the way he handled this and certainly won't forget it.
(weather was about 15F, sunny, no precip)

So, no news yet as it's in the shop & they won't open again until tomorrow. But... I hope they reproduce it & find the problem. If not, I'm pointing them to this thread!


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

msp_guy, did you bring it to Motorwerks? I'm curious to see what they find.


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## msp_guy (Feb 10, 2003)

ff said:


> msp_guy, did you bring it to Motorwerks? I'm curious to see what they find.


nope.. sears. i'll post an update as soon as I hear something.


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## msp_guy (Feb 10, 2003)

Just got my car back this afternoon. It sounds fine & seems to run as good as ever. They replaced all 6 engine coils. Here's what the repair order says:

Customer States Check Engine Light on
Engine runs rough and stalls at stops
Faulty ignition coils
Fault stored for ignition activation.fc 031.and cyl 5
misfire.fc 242.replaced all 6 faulty coils per SI 12 08 03
Cleared the Fault memory
OP # 0000555-2FRU 
OP # 1213509-8FRU 
Part# 12-13-1-712-223 Ignition Coil (Quantity:6)

From deciphering the stuff above, it looks like there is a service bulletin for this that began in December (SI 12-08-03), so it is a known issue with a known fix.

The SA told me that BMW's policy is to replace all 6 coils even if only one has faults.


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

msp_guy said:


> Just got my car back this afternoon. It sounds fine & seems to run as good as ever. They replaced all 6 engine coils. Here's what the repair order says:
> 
> Customer States Check Engine Light on
> Engine runs rough and stalls at stops
> ...


Is the coil different than before? I mean has it been redesigned or do they get it from a new OEM or do they just replace and hope it works?


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## leswong1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Bad News*

Just got word from the dealer my 04 330i ZHP with 2000 miles has an air leak coming from one of the pistons. They need to take head off the engine to analyze. They told me this will take a week to troubleshoot.. ;(


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## msp_guy (Feb 10, 2003)

greginaz1 said:


> Is the coil different than before? I mean has it been redesigned or do they get it from a new OEM or do they just replace and hope it works?


dunno..


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## woohoo (May 29, 2003)

msp_guy said:


> Just got my car back this afternoon. It sounds fine & seems to run as good as ever. They replaced all 6 engine coils. Here's what the repair order says:
> 
> Customer States Check Engine Light on
> Engine runs rough and stalls at stops
> ...


Some guy stopped me in a Best Buy parking lot and asked me if I had a problem with my Ignition Coils--he had his replaced twice!!! I told him no, but I didn't get a chance to ask why. :banghead:


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## Ashe too (Dec 22, 2001)

Got mine back last week. Dealer says he was unable to duplicate the problem. I think I need to do a better job of explaining the problem. But given how many people experience this, it would seem that a fix has got to be in the works at some point in the not too distant future.


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## duffer (Feb 17, 2004)

*1980 BMW with stalling problem *

I was thinking of buying another BMW (325I) this year ,but after seeing these posts I don't think so. I had a 1980 BMW way back when and it stalled in the winter at temps just around freezing. I went to the dealer and while there a lady had the same problem. The service guy said a regional BMW guy was there and couldn't find the problem. So they obviously had a lot of complaints about the problem. They suspected that the air controller was icing up or something. Never heard a word from BMW about this problem after that. It happened again rough idle,killed woldn't start. Sat on the side of road all night. Started in the morning. I sold the car in the spring!!!
I doubt that the current problem is related to the 1980, but don't expect any solutions from BMW.


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

Just got my car back from the dealer today. I showed them the two TSB's regarding the ignition coils and harness when I brought the car in. WHen I picked it up today they told me all six coils were replaced and that should resolve the issue. They did notice the idle dropping. 

I drove the car all day today, from one end of Long Island to the other in stop and go traffic and also cruising at 60mph and never had the idle drop or stalling sensation. The car felt a lot more stable and gave me no trouble all day. I really hope this resolved the issue. I will post again if the trouble comes back.


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## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

GeoMystic,

Were there error codes in the computer for coils??????


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

RChoudry said:


> GeoMystic,
> 
> Were there error codes in the computer for coils??????


Yep, this is what the invoice contained:

"C/S RPM Surges at Idle/Stalls while driving"

Cause: E 908 Misc Mechanical
8287 Reprogrammed DME
----------------------------------------

"C/S Rough Idle"

Cause: Missfiring
1213512 Replacing all ignition coils
4556 WP40
6 12-13-1-712-223 Ignition Coil

8287 connected car to DIS tester - pulled fault code 274E, 2745, 2744, Missfire at several cylinders. Checked coils - Below cutoff date for replacement - Replaced coils.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

hockeynut said:


> Same here. They replaced the idle control valve and so far so good. No stalls and the idle is much steadier.


Same dealer, same fix 

It was indeed the idle control valve that was replaced. I did see one event of idle falling afterwards, but let's see if it was a fluke. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

*1st time ZHP stall*

My ZHP actually stalled twice for the first time yesterday (12.5K miles).

My question is this, after stalling the SES and EML lights came on (both times), does this mean a fault has actually been recorded in the on board computer?

Thanks.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

I caught some heavy bumper to bumper traffic on my way home today, and my 330i (non Z) stalled about four times. The idle dropped and restored itself about eight more times. This is all within a thirty minute time frame.

It seems like the problem is worse with hot weather and bumper to bumper traffic. The new idle control valve did not solve my problem.

Kind of frustrating having such chronic idle problems.


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## woohoo (May 29, 2003)

I have just under 12K miles. My car hasn't stalled in a few months now, but it now idles roughly all the time (before, the rough idle would come and go). The rough idle makes the car feel jittery--not as bad as an old diesel though. 

Passengers often wonder what's wrong with my $40,000 car. Makes them think twice about buying a BMW. :thumbdwn:


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## mathewquick (Jun 26, 2003)

*No Fix*

Almost 300 Miles later and....

NO FIX!

So the RPM adjustment did help to mask the problem. Anyone used to driving their ZHP and used to feeling the idle problem would still be able to feel the slight fluctuations in the idle through the pedals. So I figured I could live with that until this morning when I was out getting plates for my girls new SUV and it happened. Another HUGE idle fluctuation. I love BMW's but I give up. I can't deal with this anymore. Good luck to everyone.

Quick


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## kyyuan (Jul 14, 2002)

mathewquick said:



> Almost 300 Miles later and....
> 
> NO FIX!
> 
> ...


sorry to hear. Mine only fluctuates, or get rough idles, once in while, and no near-stall events (knock on wood). However, if the rough idles become too frequent and the near-stall happens, I'll make the dealer keep it until it's fixed. Fix it or I'll get my money back by invoking the Lemon Law (near-stall events should be sufficently serious).

Good luck to all.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

It seems like my car is also beginning to get afflicted by the idle problem. It all had been fine until about 2 weeks ago. I began noticing that idle would flutter ever so slightly at random times. Last week I had a near stall when I was waiting from my garage door to fully open. My 318ti also had same kind of idle problems right of the bat. It's first repair was to replace the idle control valve. It is hard to believe that 7 years later I am facing the same issue.

The problem has not really been bothering me (except the near stall) so I was going to wait. Unfortunately it looks that I may have it to the dealer sooner than I expected. Yesterday it poured here in Houston and had to drive in the rain. Well, now I have water in both foglights.  So I will be taking the car in lto the dealer later this week. Will see what the dealer has to say about the idle issue.


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

xspeedy said:


> I caught some heavy bumper to bumper traffic on my way home today, and my 330i (non Z) stalled about four times. The idle dropped and restored itself about eight more times. This is all within a thirty minute time frame.
> 
> It seems like the problem is worse with hot weather and bumper to bumper traffic. The new idle control valve did not solve my problem.
> 
> Kind of frustrating having such chronic idle problems.


Yup, I noticed in the warmer weather that the idle wasn't as steady. Almost stalled once on 183 (which of course was bumper 2 bumper) but I caught it in time.

Can anyone confirm that replacing the ignition coils solves the problem?


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## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

there doesn't seem to be any confirmation that the coils are the problem. Mine's a 2/04 build and the coils are the new variety, according to BMW service. It has similar problems as others on the board.

Mine specifically gives the sensation of misfiring when cold at stoplights, after about 30 seconds of idling. The idle fluctuates but it hasn't stalled yet.


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

hockeynut said:


> Yup, I noticed in the warmer weather that the idle wasn't as steady. Almost stalled once on 183 (which of course was bumper 2 bumper) but I caught it in time.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that replacing the ignition coils solves the problem?


I just had them replaced, along with a reprogram of the DME and so far my idle is better than ever! I had it done on wed and have been driving hte car a lot lately, both in traffic and not in traffic and it's solid. No stalling or idle drop, so far I am very happy with the results. :thumbup:


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## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

GeoMystic,

any shuddering w/o idle fluctuation?


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## Gemini330zhp (Apr 12, 2004)

*Anyone have the automatic*

Does anyone have the automatic Steptronic with this problem??


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

RChoudry said:


> GeoMystic,
> 
> any shuddering w/o idle fluctuation?


Nope, the car only used to shudder when the idle would drop to 500 or below.


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## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

GeoMystic said:


> Nope, the car only used to shudder when the idle would drop to 500 or below.


Still no problems Geo? Did you get the version 39 DME upgrade or ?

Thanks.


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## kyyuan (Jul 14, 2002)

FWIW... My dealer wasn't able to find any fault code related to my rough idle/stall problems. I even printed ScottZHP's posting for my dealer/mechanic convenience. :dunno: Let's get with it BMWNA.


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## mathewquick (Jun 26, 2003)

Gemini330zhp said:


> Does anyone have the automatic Steptronic with this problem??


Yes the autos have the same problem. There was one in the shop exhibiting the same behavior as mine when I took it in.

Quick


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## mathewquick (Jun 26, 2003)

hockeynut said:


> Yup, I noticed in the warmer weather that the idle wasn't as steady. Almost stalled once on 183 (which of course was bumper 2 bumper) but I caught it in time.
> 
> Can anyone confirm that replacing the ignition coils solves the problem?


They replaced all of my coils and it DID NOT solve the problem.

-Quick


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## killajoe (Apr 22, 2004)

*ditto*

My coils were replaced with new Bosch units (2 weeks ago) which DID NOT solve the problem.

I've posted this before, but anyway, my local service manager informed me the problem has been diagnosed by BMW as a "purge valve" timing problem. The purge valve releases waste gases at a timing interval determined by the DME. The problem is the DME is opening the valve at incorrect times, like at idle, messing up the fuel/air mixture which results in a rough idle and possibly stalling.

killajoe


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

killajoe said:


> My coils were replaced with new Bosch units (2 weeks ago) which DID NOT solve the problem.
> 
> I've posted this before, but anyway, my local service manager informed me the problem has been diagnosed by BMW as a "purge valve" timing problem. The purge valve releases waste gases at a timing interval determined by the DME. The problem is the DME is opening the valve at incorrect times, like at idle, messing up the fuel/air mixture which results in a rough idle and possibly stalling.
> 
> killajoe


Sounds like the SW-39 upgrade we've been hearing about?


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## killajoe (Apr 22, 2004)

*yep*



hockeynut said:


> Sounds like the SW-39 upgrade we've been hearing about?


Exactly - I just wich it was here yesterday.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

I called my SA at BMW of Austin, and he never heard anything about SW-39. He mentioned that they are now on SW-37.


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## KU Ned (Apr 23, 2003)

As I posted a couple of weeks ago, my SA at Baron BMW in Kansas City says the SW-39 will be to dealers in early June. I do not know if it is a DME hardware replacement or a reprogram. I am getting new brake pads and rotors on Tuesday and will see if I can get anymore information.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

KU Ned said:


> As I posted a couple of weeks ago, my SA at Baron BMW in Kansas City says the SW-39 will be to dealers in early June.


So chances are the '04 Imola Red ZHP I ordered this morning to arrive in mid-July won't have this problem? :tsk:


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## mathewquick (Jun 26, 2003)

SW-39 should be in dealerships by July at the latest. Most estimates put it at mid-June.

*[Kurichan]:* Hopefully the one you just ordered won't exhibit any of these symptoms. I wouldn't wish this nightmare on anyone.

-Quick


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## nads12345 (Apr 18, 2004)

*i fouind the solution!!!!!*

The idle is controlled by two devices - the oxygen (02) sensor and the ICV. The ICV is a small valve that keeps the engine running over by opening and closing a small air valve allowing more or less air into the engine. If the engine typically almost stalls, then revs upto about 3000rpm then nearly stalls etc then it is likely the idle control valve will need cleaning, commonly the ICV will need cleaning around every 80,000 miles !

In the picture below is the M40 engine (316i/318i) but on any engine the idle control valve sits between the intake manifold and a source of clean air - this commonly being the airbox or the pipe leading from the airbox to the throttle body. It's easy to find as it will have two rubber tubes going to it and one electrical connector plug.

To clean it you need to turn the engine off (obviously) if you want to be mage-careful you can disconnect the battery. Carefully prise off the two rubber tubes and unclip the electrical connector. Next carefully remove the ICV from its mounting, on the M40 it is held in place with a strong rubber mount.

Once the ICV is removed look inside and you will see it is full of black carbon - this is why it needs cleaning! Using some alcohol based cleaner - computer screen cleaner is ideal spray this into the valve and very carefully using a toothbrush remove all traces of the carbon from both ports. Also very carefully clean the sliding "door" as this is what regulates the air passing through it. Try to clean it in the fully closed position as this will clean the entire "door"

Leave the alcohol to evaporate and once it is dry spray WD40 into the valve and then shake out the excess WD40. Once this is done put it back in and start the engine. You should now have a rock steady idle - if not then the problem lies with the oxygen sensor (02 sensor). See replacing the oxygen sensor section.


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## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

the problem experienced by these owners is not related to the ICV. It happens on brand new and slightly broken in cars alike. It is a DME-software related problem.


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## nexadan (Apr 30, 2004)

*DME re-programmed and voila..! (So far...)*

First, many thanks to everyone who's contributed to this topic.

My 2001 330Ci started stalling the other week... Same symptoms everyone has mentioned in here. (I also noticed that the problem was worse is "sport mode" of the steptronic).

My car has 62k miles and never had this problem before.

Dealer had no clue. No clue that such a common problem existed. No error codes, etc... and since they could not pin point a problem part they did not want to take any action. Meanwhile I'm stalling in the middle of intersections on a daily basis.

I printed out this thread and brought it to the dealer.

To make a long story short, they re-programmed the DME. Now here's the catch, the latest version they had was V37. I told them to do it anyway. They noted that the DME had never been re-programmed since the car was new (when it's reprogrammed it reads back how mnay more times it can be done... it can only be re-programmed 14 times they said).

Anyway, 4 days later and few hundred miles... no problem at all. But like others in here, I'm afraid the problem may return down the road.

Anyway, I'm wondering if it was the resetting of the DME chip after the re-programming that cleared things up?

Dan


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## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

nads12345 said:


> The idle is controlled by two devices - the oxygen (02) sensor and the ICV. The ICV is a small valve that keeps the engine running over by opening and closing a small air valve allowing more or less air into the engine. If the engine typically almost stalls, then revs upto about 3000rpm then nearly stalls etc then it is likely the idle control valve will need cleaning, commonly the ICV will need cleaning around every 80,000 miles !
> 
> In the picture below is the M40 engine (316i/318i) but on any engine the idle control valve sits between the intake manifold and a source of clean air - this commonly being the airbox or the pipe leading from the airbox to the throttle body. It's easy to find as it will have two rubber tubes going to it and one electrical connector plug.
> 
> ...


Didn't you post this a while back? One of your other 10 posts....

It is not the ICV.  :tsk: I have had the problem resolved on my car by the dealer upgrading the DME software. My car has been solid for weeks now.


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

killajoe said:


> My coils were replaced with new Bosch units (2 weeks ago) which DID NOT solve the problem.
> 
> I've posted this before, but anyway, my local service manager informed me the problem has been diagnosed by BMW as a "purge valve" timing problem. The purge valve releases waste gases at a timing interval determined by the DME. The problem is the DME is opening the valve at incorrect times, like at idle, messing up the fuel/air mixture which results in a rough idle and possibly stalling.
> 
> killajoe


My dealer replaced this valve last summer, and made no difference. Said that there was a known problem with it, that was causing the engine to take more cranking before it would start. Replacing it, didn't help that problem either.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

*Lemons*

Guys, I hate to say it, and will probably get flamed, but any of you in California (and other states that have the law) should take your car in four times, say the same thing each time, get it all documented, and if it's not fixed after that, put the lemon law to work.

That will get BMW's attention.

I'd be so steamed if this happened to me. I mean, how far can you take brand loyalty?

I am literally considering cancelling my 04 ZHP order in the next couple days.


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## KU Ned (Apr 23, 2003)

The SW-39 will be a software update. He says it will be here by June.


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## KU Ned (Apr 23, 2003)

kurichan said:


> I'd be so steamed if this happened to me. I mean, how far can you take brand loyalty?
> 
> I am literally considering cancelling my 04 ZHP order in the next couple days.


While it is annoying, my car has not stalled in weeks. I have kept up with the topic so I know when the update comes out. The car is still great and I would not trade it for many cars.

I have to believe that if your car is on order it will have the update. If not, you can have the update done upon delivery.


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## mathewquick (Jun 26, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Guys, I hate to say it, and will probably get flamed, but any of you in California (and other states that have the law) should take your car in four times, say the same thing each time, get it all documented, and if it's not fixed after that, put the lemon law to work.
> 
> That will get BMW's attention.
> 
> ...


I don't know why you would get flamed for saying that. [But I have a feeling I will by the time I'm done with this post ] I think anyone who owns a ZHP who is experiencing this problem would agree. I know I do. You don't expect to buy a near $50K automobile from a company with the reputation of BMW and get treated like some contry bumpkin who doesn't know any better who just bought a $8K Kia. You expect that when you have a problem they will either a) fix it or b) come up with some other remedy to the situation that is fair to both parties.

Personally as my best friend often reminds me, I have a "f*cked up sense of honor" but I don't like the lemon law and how it would apply in this case, at least to my situation. For me I purchased my car in June 2003 and loved driving it until about October when my idle problem showed up. The problems have progressed to constant idle fluctuations and stalling. As far as I am concerned my car is a lemon, but I should NOT get all of my payments back. I wasn't having the problem in June, July, August or September so why should I get those payments back? It's like going to Mortons in June and having a great new york strip then going back in July and getting one that tastes awful and telling the manager that you want you money back for this one and the one you ate in June. It isn't what I would consider a fair demand to make.

More or less it comes down to whether BMW can or cannot fix this problem with the newest software upgrade that will arrive in June. If they can then great, there will be some pissed off ZHP owners out there of course becasue let's face it BMW has been less than forthcoming with some of us about the issue, but if they fix the cars they probably haven't driven any of us to saying that because of this and now as a matter of principle "I'll never buy another BMW". However, if they don't fix the cars with this newest upgrade, as promised, then.... well then I think they are going to have a problem on their hands.

But what to do I know right? Just my .02

Quick


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I don't recall hearing much about this problem for 2001 or 2002 MY cars-- which also used the m54 engine. I wonder if, as a temporary fix (for non-ZHP owners), "rolling back" to an older software version might cure the problem?


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

ff said:


> My dealer replaced this valve last summer, and made no difference. Said that there was a known problem with it, that was causing the engine to take more cranking before it would start. Replacing it, didn't help that problem either.


Ditto - new ICV, still stalls.


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## ronh95 (Apr 20, 2004)

*Patience people, please!*

My '04 ZHP has never stalled (2.2K miles), but my experience with BMW since 1984 when I had a 318i is that once they get the solution worked out, a 'campaign' (politically correct BMW term for 'recall') will be conducted and the problem will be rectified. This applies even if the original warranty is up, although it sounds like they are zeroing in on a solution with SW39. Years ago, my old 318 was over six years old and while in for a scope tune/valve adjust, they noted that it hadn't had the recent A/C campaign done (new compressor, dryer, dryer switch, etc.). They called and offered to do it and the A/C was working great at the time. The car was well out of warranty, but they did it anyway. Similar situation a year after that when some sort of coolant system valve (spliced into the heater hose) was developed and was installed, along with all new heater hoses/clamps while in for a tune up.

I know the safety issue is important. Seems like some are experiencing frequent and scary stalling, not just an annoyance. For those experiencing extreme failure rates, try approaching the mgmt at the dealership re. a loaner until a bonafide fix is developed.

To the individual who was thinking of cancelling his order for a ZHP, I'd encourage you to hang in there. You are about to obtain a truly awesome car that will provide you with years of enjoyment. These boards do tend to attract a disproportionate share of those with problems. It's the nature of boards of this type. People are looking for help and support and the boards are a great resource for us all, but for every one of those with problems posting there are many more (like myself) whose faces ache from grinning ear to ear all the time while driving the ZHP.


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