# Formula 1 2011 <<<<SPOILER>>>>



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I would add that he is very skilled at working with his engineers, albeit that he can be quite negative at times! Ok, perhaps _direct_ is a better word for it.
> 
> I could also see him doing well with MB or McLaren.


McLaren definitely but not sure about MB, he wasn't happy at BMW and Stuttgart's influence on the team could create similar situation.


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## TheDrivingG (Dec 30, 2009)

franka said:


> Was the race boring due to lack of passing, aside from the championship suspense aspect?





Patrick said:


> Yes.


That made me feel better for missing it. Tilke tracks suck, they should hire the guys that worked on Silverstone. Glad that I did not place any bets at Vegas!



F1Crazy said:


> Kubica would be great for Ferrari but I don't think Ferrari is going to be great for Kubica. It's all about timing.


You think Renault will come back strong next year? Their engineers are pretty good; they had one of the most efficient F-Ducts. I get the feeling Renault/Kubica might surprise next year.



Patrick said:


> And as we have repeatedly seen, being teammates with El Banco has never been a smart move.


Kubica is one driver El Banco "fears" and he's good friends with him. I still wouldn't want to be his teammate. :eeps:
Massa must have been thoroughly demotivated. F1 drivers are ultra-competitive and as much as they want to drive fast and win, I don't think he was in a mood to help FA. I like Massa and Ferrari and don't really care about FA so I'm not complaining! And what was the deal with him gesturing at Petrov?? Did he expect him to move over  I had predicted that Petrov would somehow manage to crash his car in to the podium, looks like he crashed FA's hope for a podium :rofl:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Santander flipped Petrov off after they crossed the finish line.

Classy.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Can't see Kubica going to Ferrari just yet . I'm sure they'll give Massa one more year to see if he can get his act together . If he had driven to his potential , thay could have beat McLaren in the constructors . Also , and obviously , Ferrari want a solid number two to back up Alonso . He is still one of the top three drivers (Hamilton and Vettel the others) and given the car and no more stupid mistakes from the pit wall , he can surely deliver the goods .

Renault came out with a great F-duct , but it took them most of the year and it all goes away for next year . I see them in a tight battle for fourth with Mercedes next year with Ferrari , McLaren and RedBull once again fighting it out at the front . 

And yes , heads must roll. Looks like Chris Dyer will be the fall guy , but from the sound of it , he was the one making the calls from the pit wall so it's deserved .


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

So what are the rule changes for next year I know f-duct and double deck diffuser banned, increased min weight, adjustable wings anything else. I hope they change safety car rules they just don't make sense we missed a lot of good battles cause of them.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Santander flipped Petrov off after they crossed the finish line.
> 
> Classy.


Patrick,

Santander name is everywhere, its a bank. What is the Santander that you use above? You know I'm slow so help me out here.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> So what are the rule changes for next year I know f-duct and double deck diffuser banned, increased min weight, adjustable wings anything else. I hope they change safety car rules they just don't make sense we missed a lot of good battles cause of them.


Turbos and ground effects on 4 cyl cars in 2013. In 2011 KERS comes back but more powerful. Can discharge more energy per lap than former KERS. The inertia wheel systems will be in some cars. Porsche has already used the wheeled system to great effect.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

This is new (as of today).

Hülkenberg to Ferrari. 

He would probably be a perfect teammate for the diva drama queen.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Patrick,
> 
> Santander name is everywhere, its a bank. What is the Santander that you use above? You know I'm slow so help me out here.


Alonso's seat at Ferrari is being bank rolled for by the Spanish bank, Santander. Therefore, Alonso is referred to as, "Santander," or, "El Banco," by Spanish and Italian Formula 1 fans that do not like him because of this.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Alonso's seat at Ferrari is being bank rolled for by the Spanish bank, Santander. Therefore, Alonso is referred to as, "Santander," or, "El Banco," by Spanish and Italian Formula 1 fans that do not like him because of this.


Thanks


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

So Alonso had the bank buy a seat for him in a Ferrari?

I thought only the lower ranked drivers had to buy rides. What have things come to in F1? How long before they start buying wins?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> So what are the rule changes for next year I know f-duct and double deck diffuser banned, increased min weight, adjustable wings anything else. I hope they change safety car rules they just don't make sense we missed a lot of good battles cause of them.


Twin diffusers gone. Blown rear wings gone. Moveable front wing elements gone. Coming in... Larger diameter wheels. KERS is back. Moveable rear wing element. So far, there's a lot of speculation but no one knows what the next engine formula will be. Also, there is no confirmation of ground effects being allowed. I think it's unlikely. They were already banned and among all the talk of trying to slow the cars down, ground effects would only make them faster.

I'm disappointed that blown wings will be banned. Airflow management is the most interesting technical aspect of this sport and an area of great ingenuity. It's a shame to limit it.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> This is new (as of today).
> 
> Hülkenberg to Ferrari.
> 
> He would probably be a perfect teammate for the diva drama queen.


Where did you see this?

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Twin diffusers gone. Blown rear wings gone. Moveable front wing elements gone. Coming in... Larger diameter wheels. KERS is back. Moveable rear wing element. So far, there's a lot of speculation but no one knows what the next engine formula will be. Also, there is no confirmation of ground effects being allowed. I think it's unlikely. They were already banned and among all the talk of trying to slow the cars down, ground effects would only make them faster.
> 
> I'm disappointed that blown wings will be banned. Airflow management is the most interesting technical aspect of this sport and an area of great ingenuity. It's a shame to limit it.


I disagree about the use of ground effects. GE, under body tunnels and side skirts, will let the cars run much closer and aid in passing. That is what everyone is looking for, more passing.

The tunnels and the skirts could be limited to keep cornering speeds under control. Use GE to limit the front wing width allowing more cars to stay on track after side to side skirmishes instead of breaking end plates and half the wing requiring a trip to the pits and an automatic drop from the top ten.

Speaking of cornering, wide and long curves at the end of straights is another formula for more passing. Do away with most chicanes and have penalties for those who use the short cuts at the remaining chicanes. Replace the chicanes with more wide curves where there is room for two and three cars wide. Like on stock circle tracks. That will provide exciting passing on the inside and outside. Who do I tell at the FIA and the circuts?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Where did you see this?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


Don't question Patrick, he's connected with high ranking inside authorities.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> Where did you see this?


La Stampa.

http://www.lastampa.it/sport/cmsSezioni/formula1/201011articoli/30584girata.asp

Oh, but that is in Italian...


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> So Alonso had the bank buy a seat for him in a Ferrari?
> 
> I thought only the lower ranked drivers had to buy rides. What have things come to in F1? How long before they start buying wins?


Frank,

Where were you a year ago when Santander bought Räikkönen's contract out, and paid him 21 million Euros NOT to drive for Ferrari anymore? Heck, we even discussed the whole situation here - at length!

Not only did they buy El Banco's seat with Ferrari, they became the principle sponsor of the team.

As far as buying wins, who do you think helped decide the outcome of the German Grand Prix this year? Easy. The boss of Santander, Ferrari's guest of honor at the race. :rofl:


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> Frank
> 
> As far as buying wins, who do you think helped decide the outcome of the German Grand Prix this year? Easy. The boss of Santander, Ferrari's guest of honor at the race. :rofl:


Prove it.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> Prove it.


The race stewards already did. :thumbup:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Frank,
> 
> Where were you a year ago when Santander bought Räikkönen's contract out, and paid him 21 million Euros NOT to drive for Ferrari anymore? Heck, we even discussed the whole situation here - at length!
> 
> ...


Kimi's personality did not suit Ferrari. They wanted someone Italian and more impulsive, the "red wine and spaghetti" type. (term taken from another source, not my term even though descriptive.)

One GP win means nothing.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> The race stewards already did. :thumbup:


Actually , what they proved is that Ferrari used team orders to affect the outcome of the race . I read about 6 different F1 related websites and in not one of them has any mention been made of the CEO of Santander having an influence on that decision .

So once again , I'm not trying to pick a fight , I'm just looking for more information . If you can show me an article proving where the CEO / President of Santander has a say on decisions from the Ferrari pit wall during races , I would like to see it .


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> Actually , what they proved is that Ferrari used team orders to affect the outcome of the race . I read about 6 different F1 related websites and in not one of them has any mention been made of the CEO of Santander having an influence on that decision .
> 
> So once again , I'm not trying to pick a fight , I'm just looking for more information . If you can show me an article proving where the CEO / President of Santander has a say on decisions from the Ferrari pit wall during races , I would like to see it .


I have been a fan of SF, and I know how desperately the Tiffosi can be about wanting their team, or a particular driver to win. At all costs. Regardless of the price.

I also have a brain and I can see when money manipulates things.

You want transcripts or documents to prove that Botin arranged the race result, but you know that these don't exist. 

But hey, Santander/Alonso had no idea that Piquet Jr was told to crash, allowing him to win the Singapore Grand Prix. :rofl:

Anyway, let's remember who is paying the big money for El Banco's seat. Yes, the fat guy on the left (and Luca does actually look good in that jacket).


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## GoBlue5 (Sep 29, 2010)

Patrick said:


> I have been a fan of SF, and I know how desperately the Tiffosi can be about wanting their team, or a particular driver to win. At all costs. Regardless of the price.
> 
> I also have a brain and I can see when money manipulates things.
> 
> ...


There was clearly a team order, but do you really believe if Alonso was the driver struggling in the standings and Massa was the driver performing better, that they would have told Massa to allow Alonso to pass to please the CEO of Santander? They were backing the driver who actually had a shot at winning the driver's championship at the expense of a driver who was never going to contend for the title.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

GoBlue5 said:


> There was clearly a team order, but do you really believe if Alonso was the driver struggling in the standings and Massa was the driver performing better, that they would have told Massa to allow Alonso to pass to please the CEO of Santander? They were backing the driver who actually had a shot at winning the driver's championship at the expense of a driver who was never going to contend for the title.


Sort of my point . Ferrari has used team orders in the past and I'm sure will in the future . The bottom line is winning and they will do whatever is called for to achieve the goal . I do believe that if the situation was reversed , Massa would have been given preference just as he was in '08. But based on his results this year , a decision was made to favor the driver who they thought had the better chance to win the WDC .

By the way , if you remember , that's exactly the same thing RBR did at Silverstone . Vettel was given Webbers new spec wing and the team stated quite plainly , they did it because they were favoring the driver who was ahead in the championship . I'm not saying that was wrong but clearly Vettel is Mateschitz / Marko's golden boy and they were doing what they thought was in their best business interests .

Santander , just like RedBull have goals when they sponsor a sports team or event . Certainly Santander , just like RedBull want to align themselves with a national hero who can bring as much publicity as possible . There's nothing wrong with that and we should be thankful that such corporations exist to feed our favorite sports .


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

GoBlue5 said:


> There was clearly a team order, but do you really believe if Alonso was the driver struggling in the standings and Massa was the driver performing better, that they would have told Massa to allow Alonso to pass to please the CEO of Santander? They were backing the driver who actually had a shot at winning the driver's championship at the expense of a driver who was never going to contend for the title.


Gentlemen, please have a look a the bigger picture. It is not just one race. And it is all about the money.

Santander Bank bought Alonso's seat, the #1 seat in Ferrari no less. They paid Räikkönen not to drive, and pay Alsonso's fat salary, which is at least double what Massa gets from Marlboro and Shell.

Santander paid Räikkönen more money than Massa's salary: who calls the shots? :rofl:

If there was ever going to be a situation where #2 had to make way for #1, the Santander money is paying for that - they are the main sponsor for the team, and are heavily invested in El Banco. Thus, the German Grand Prix.

That said, it was rather ironic how the camera showed Señor Botin in the SF garage at about the same time that Massa/Barrichello was being asked if he understood that Santander was quicker than him...

If Massa had no motivation to support El Banco in the last races of 2010, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

With Ferrari, it is all about politics and the *MONEY*.

FrankA, you said that Räikkönen's personality did not suit Ferrari. I would argue that it was the other way around.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

deleted error


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> TTodt


No.

Massa is Todt's choice, di Montezemolo chose Räikkönen.

Hmmm.

Who won the WDC?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

By Matt Beer and Michele Lostia Thursday, November 18th 2010, 17:40 GMT 


Jean Todt says Ferrari's use of team orders in the German Grand Prix was too 'provocative' for the FIA not to take action, but underlined that he believes many other teams have employed similar tactics in more subtle ways since the rules banning team orders were introduced.

Ferrari was fined by the Hockenheim race stewards after Felipe Massa moved aside to allow team-mate Fernando Alonso to take the race win. Although the team was summoned to appear before the FIA World Motor Sport Council, the council chose not to take any further action and announced that it would revisit the team orders regulations to see if they needed amending.

"Team orders are banned since 2002, however I've asked myself: how many times have orders been issued in a 'soft' way since then?" Todt told La Stampa.

"The difference is that the one issued by Ferrari was everything but soft. It was a provocation against the regulations."

He suggested that the review of the rules would see the regulation modified rather than scrapped altogether.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> No.
> 
> Massa is Todt's choice, di Montezemolo chose Räikkönen.
> 
> ...


You responded to an error in my posting


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Gentlemen, please have a look a the bigger picture. It is not just one race. And it is all about the money.
> 
> Santander Bank bought Alonso's seat, the #1 seat in Ferrari no less. They paid Räikkönen not to drive, and pay Alsonso's fat salary, which is at least double what Massa gets from Marlboro and Shell.
> 
> ...


You make is sound like the bank is paying the drivers directly. The bank sponsors Ferrari and Ferrari pays the drivers and decides what to do. Yes, No?

So Kimi left and not that Ferrari let him go? Is that what you are saying?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> You responded to an error in my posting


You edited your post after I had already replied.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> You make is sound like the bank is paying the drivers directly. The bank sponsors Ferrari and Ferrari pays the drivers and decides what to do. Yes, No?
> 
> So Kimi left and not that Ferrari let him go? Is that what you are saying?


Ferrari does not pay the drivers; the sponsors do.

Räikkönen had a year left on his deal with SF. Massa had two years remaining on his contract.

Santander had a sponsorship package for SF that included Alonso driving for SF.

Santander bought out the last year of Räikkönen's contract, did the sponsorship deal with SF, and this made it possible for Alonso to drive. If Räikkönen would have refused to leave, SF would have not received the huge deal with Santander Bank.

If Räikkönen would have driven in Formula 1 for any other team in 2010, he would have only received half of his salary from Santander. Instead, he took Santander's money, signed a WRC contract with Red Bull and got an even bigger salary from them than Loeb gets from Citroen.

Any further questions?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Speaking of cornering, wide and long curves at the end of straights is another formula for more passing. Do away with most chicanes and have penalties for those who use the short cuts at the remaining chicanes. Replace the chicanes with more wide curves where there is room for two and three cars wide. Like on stock circle tracks. That will provide exciting passing on the inside and outside. Who do I tell at the FIA and the circuts?


You must be connected with high ranking, inside authorities.

Todt is now demanding changes to all of the circuits that have little to no passing, i.e., Abu Dhabi. For next season!

The FIA will review all of the tracks not only for safety issues, but also in terms what type of spectacle does each offer.

I just read about this from La Stampa. Which is an I-talian newspaper.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Vettel fastest on the new tires, but still 1.5sec slower than his Q3 time on Saturday.



















Source: MTV3 F1 page - oh sorry, that is in Finnish btw...

http://www.mtv3.fi/urheilu/f1/uutiset.shtml/arkistot/f1/2010/11/1227729


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The times on the new Pirellis have no comparisons. Only same track, same day, same car comparisons can be made bewteen brands. This for a variety of reasons too numerous for a lazy person to communicate here.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Ferrari does not pay the drivers; the sponsors do.
> 
> Räikkönen had a year left on his deal with SF. Massa had two years remaining on his contract.
> 
> ...


Yes

I thought SF was Spoon Face, apparently not. So who or what is SF?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Yes
> 
> I thought SF was Spoon Face, apparently not. So who or what is SF?


SF is Scuderia Ferrari .

I'm still not sure who spoonface is . Nearest I can figure , it's either Kubica or Schumi.

Nice to see Massa on top today . I know it's only testing and you have no idea what each teams agenda was but still , if ever a guy needed a confidence boost , it's him . And I wonder what was with the red helmet he wore in the morning session ? Just something for the cameras or trying to change his colors to change his luck ?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> The times on the new Pirellis have no comparisons. Only same track, same day, same car comparisons can be made bewteen brands. This for a variety of reasons too numerous for a lazy person to communicate here.


I think that it is a *GOOD* thing that at this new stage for Pirelli, that the times are only 1.5sec behind the qualifying time.

And since the track has had only 1 day off since last Friday, the track is only getting faster as more rubber gets put down.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> SF is Scuderia Ferrari .
> 
> I'm still not sure who spoonface is . Nearest I can figure , it's either Kubica or Schumi.


You are a F1 fan, a Ferrari fan, and you do not know who Spoonface is?


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Yes
> 
> I thought SF was Spoon Face, apparently not. So who or what is SF?


uch:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Spoon Face = Schumacher.

Rosberg is complaining about the Pirellis saying they are like the bad front Bridgestones that Schumi blames for his poor times.  :rofl:

What a joke. I thought he would know better. He's foolishly looking for excuses when he doesn't have to. Pirelli is in development and this is the first time they have their tire on a variety of real F1 cars.

Give Pirelli time and they will be there. :thumbup:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> I think that it is a *GOOD* thing that at this new stage for Pirelli, that the times are only 1.5sec behind the qualifying time.
> 
> And since the track has had only 1 day off since last Friday, the track is only getting faster as more rubber gets put down.


Pirelli has stated that the rubber that was laid from the race is more of a hinderance than help. Diff composition is why.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

The biggest news coming from Pirelli testing is what Rosberg says about the tires and it's not good. Basically the fronts are worse than Bridgestone's and this means Schumi will still struggle if the design of the car is not changed completely from this years car. I was hoping to see Spoonface challenge the young guns...


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Ferrari does not pay the drivers; the sponsors do.
> 
> Räikkönen had a year left on his deal with SF. Massa had two years remaining on his contract.
> 
> ...


So how's that going? Is he worth more than Loeb ( in your humble opinion?) Nothing like hijacking one's own thread.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> The biggest news coming from Pirelli testing is what Rosberg says about the tires and it's not good. Basically the fronts are worse than Bridgestone's and this means Schumi will still struggle if the design of the car is not changed completely from this years car. I was hoping to see Spoonface challenge the young guns...


And yesterday, Ross Brawn said that the new Mercedes will be built to Spoonface's driving style. :eeps:

And Fittipaldi (who cares what he says) said that Vettel's main contenders next season will be El Banco and Spoonface. 

What?

Anyway, Pirelli still has time to develop the tires. That is why there is this mass testing now.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> So how's that going? Is he worth more than Loeb ( in your humble opinion?)


Pretty damn good for someone that had only driven three rallies in a S2000 car.

As for his worth: ask Red Bull.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Pirelli has stated that the rubber that was laid from the race is more of a hinderance than help. Diff composition is why.


Source? :dunno:

And it is Ok if it is not in English.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Check your sources, only Rosberg is not happy with the Pirelli tests. They ran 12 F1 cars and the vast majority were pleasantly surprised with the new rubber, Pirelli too.

The rubber will be fine. 

Autosport


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


> The biggest news coming from Pirelli testing is what Rosberg says about the tires and it's not good. Basically the fronts are worse than Bridgestone's and this means Schumi will still struggle if the design of the car is not changed completely from this years car. I was hoping to see Spoonface challenge the young guns...


Not so. Rosberg is the only complainer I know of. And I already posted he did not like the fronts. Didn't like Bridgestone fronts either, he says Schumi was so poor the whole season due to the fronts. Yea right. Poor baby.

Most others managed very well with the Bridgestones, and the Pirellis.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Massa pleased with strong Pirelli start 

By Edd Straw Friday, November 19th 2010, 16:09 GMT 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Pirelli exceeds drivers' expectations 

By Edd Straw Friday, November 19th 2010, 17:59 GMT


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Check your sources, only Rosberg is not happy with the Pirelli tests. They ran 12 F1 cars and the vast majority were pleasantly surprised with the new rubber, Pirelli too.
> 
> The rubber will be fine.
> 
> Autosport


My only source is actually doing the testing in Abu Dhabi and he hasn't replied to FB (Facebook) messages today.

Is Autosport in English? Sounds German, makes me nervous. :rofl:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> What a joke. I thought he would know better. He's foolishly looking for excuses when he doesn't have to.


FrankA, join me in forgiving Spoonface for all of that nonsense in the past when he single-handedly managed to ruin Formula 1, and let's cheer for him next season.

It's a new era, he is old, not driving the enemy car (Benetton or FIAT) and cheering for the underdog makes one feel all fuzzy inside. :thumbup:

It's like cheering for Mansell when he was too fat to even sit in the McLaren in 1995.

I am willing to forgive and forget.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> My only source is actually doing the testing in Abu Dhabi and he hasn't replied to FB (Facebook) messages today.
> 
> Is Autosport in English? Sounds German, makes me nervous. :rofl:


Is he with Mercedes?

English of course, but maybe other languages too, :dunno: ? Subscription $$$ expensive so it must be good.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> My only source is actually doing the testing in Abu Dhabi and he hasn't replied to FB (Facebook) messages today.
> 
> Is Autosport in English? Sounds German, makes me nervous. :rofl:


 Could be a little busy for FB.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> FrankA, join me in forgiving Spoonface for all of that nonsense in the past when he single-handedly managed to ruin Formula 1, and let's cheer for him next season.
> 
> It's a new era, he is old, not driving the enemy car (Benetton or FIAT) and cheering for the underdog makes one feel all fuzzy inside. :thumbup:
> 
> ...


Perhaps I can forgive him for his almost continuous abuse of F1 in his first life. Perhaps not. But the experience of his reincarnation has certainly begat a better life for the rest of the field...so far. Even if I forgive, I can't seem to forget. I do think he'll post a win or two sometime in the future, but will never be in contention for the crown again.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Could be a little busy for FB.


True, but he usually does reply, even on race weekends. At least when he isn't locked out of his own hotel room. 

I think that he is actually playing golf. :eeps:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> Not so. Rosberg is the only complainer I know of. And I already posted he did not like the fronts. Didn't like Bridgestone fronts either, he says Schumi was so poor the whole season due to the fronts. Yea right. Poor baby.
> 
> Most others managed very well with the Bridgestones, and the Pirellis.


There was a fundamental flaw in the design of the W01, the narrower new spec tires only made things worse. I'm not a Schumi fan but I can see how one can have trouble with poor car. He didn't have a "feel" for it from the beginning and if you don't have confidence in your car you'll never be quick in it. 
There were other drivers that didn't care for the tires this year but the media concentrated on Michael's situation.

One thing is clear from the driver's comments after the test, Pirellis are slower, degrade faster (good thing) and there are no problems with getting them up to temperature. No nasty surprises and they will get better.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

*Fyi*

There is a great analysis of the tire test on James Allen's site.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

What is his web address, please?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


> There was a fundamental flaw in the design of the W01, the narrower new spec tires only made things worse. I'm not a Schumi fan but I can see how one can have trouble with poor car. He didn't have a "feel" for it from the beginning and if you don't have confidence in your car you'll never be quick in it.
> There were other drivers that didn't care for the tires this year but the media concentrated on Michael's situation.
> 
> One thing is clear from the driver's comments after the test, Pirellis are slower, degrade faster (good thing) and there are no problems with getting them up to temperature. No nasty surprises and they will get better.


I hear you about Schumi's car not suiting him but the vast majority of drivers do not have cars built just for them. It doesn't speak well for Schu. Even his team mate was beating him plus the new young guns new to F1 cars. They adapted. A legend should be able to adapt to a degree. His failure to adapt supports my long time argument that he had all sorts of special treatment, Bridgestone tires made to suit him, Ferrari winning most all on and off track decisions for years, etc, etc, etc.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> What is his web address, please?


http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/

The best F1 blog :thumbup:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


> http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/
> 
> The best F1 blog :thumbup:


Thanks. I have saved it.

The report is a day behind though.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Bored and it's snowing*

I just did some research.

For the past four years of these spoiler threads, each one has ended with a post by... franka. 

And before we had an entire season thread, we used to have individual race threads. Reading posts in those threads is rather interesting. :rofl:

We are so much more polite these days than five years ago! I am surprised that Baumann even talks to me anymore... :bigpimp:


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Well , I guess it's nice to know the new Pirelli tires suit the F10 . Now I cant wait to see what the top teams bring to the table for 2011 . 

One of the new regulations for 2011 was larger wheels with lower profile tires . Does anyone know if that's what they ran at this test ? I couldn't really tell any difference .


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> Well , I guess it's nice to know the new Pirelli tires suit the F10 . Now I cant wait to see what the top teams bring to the table for 2011 .
> 
> One of the new regulations for 2011 was larger wheels with lower profile tires . Does anyone know if that's what they ran at this test ? I couldn't really tell any difference .


They didn't go with different profile.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I just did some research.
> 
> For the past four years of these spoiler threads, each one has ended with a post by... franka.
> 
> ...


No kidding! :rofl:

I think we'd have more discussions if there was individual thread for each race.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> No kidding! :rofl:
> 
> I think we'd have more discussions if there was individual thread for each race.


Good point. We might want to think about that (race threads). We might get more action. These million page season spoiler thread might be intimidating to anyone that doesn't know what we are talking about.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Patrick said:


> Good point. We might want to think about that (race threads). We might get more action. These million page season spoiler thread might be intimidating to anyone that doesn't know what we are talking about.


I'm for it.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*One and the same*



berford said:


> Perhaps I can forgive him for his almost continuous abuse of F1 in his first life. Perhaps not. But the experience of his reincarnation has certainly begat a better life for the rest of the field...so far. Even if I forgive, I can't seem to forget. I do think he'll post a win or two sometime in the future, but will never be in contention for the crown again.


You're right. I can't forget either.

The cheating, the lying (even in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary), making a mockery of his teammate, his rivals, the FIA, his fans, getting away with everything, refusing to admit that he had done anything wrong, blaming others and then laughing all the way to the bank. :tsk:

Wait. Are we talking about Spoonface, or Santander? :dunno:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

F1Crazy said:


> I'm for it.


Well, leave the season thread for whatever ramblings we have about F1 overall, and then make a Thursday-Monday race thread, for each race weekend.

Sounds good to me.


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Patrick said:


> You're right. I can't forget either.
> 
> The cheating, the lying (even in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary), making a mockery of his teammate, his rivals, the FIA, his fans, getting away with everything, refusing to admit that he had done anything wrong, blaming others and then laughing all the way to the bank. :tsk:
> 
> Wait. Are we talking about Spoonface, or Santander? :dunno:


Spoonface, Santander or SF in general. :rofl:

BTW, Mr. Botin's last name is incredibly apt for someone running a bank.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*I was confused*



e46Christian said:


> Spoonface, Santander or SF in general. :rofl:


Excellent point.


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> You're right. I can't forget either.
> 
> The cheating, the lying (even in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary), making a mockery of his teammate, his rivals, the FIA, his fans, getting away with everything, refusing to admit that he had done anything wrong, blaming others and then laughing all the way to the bank. :tsk:
> 
> Wait. Are we talking about Spoonface, or Santander? :dunno:


No, you are only talking about Ferrari. Jeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzz.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Tires, BMW, F1, Stock Cars*

I was reading a Newey interview. When the tires went from treaded to slicks the fronts p/u a bit more grip than the rears. Unless the sizes changed after that Schumi got more front grip and not less. He may want more but can't complain that they went the other way.

FYI...Separately, BMW, Theissen said the board has firmly ruled out coming back to F1 for next year and years after that. They are sticking to production racing. Helps the breed and costs less.

F1 rules keep getting tighter and tighter and keep banning new clever engr and new trick ideas as they come into the cars. No, nope, not that, not next year, etc. The cars keep converging toward a spec car. No more clever engrg allowed, no more fun any more. They're all the same now which brings me to NASCAR.

Ground Effects. Look at the Nascar Sprint cars. A wide front spoiler that scrapes the track, full side skirts, a massive diffuser lets the big wide cars punch big holes in the air yet run 3 wide and 3 deep while touching yet w/o loss of control.

Wake up F1. Pull your freakin rules making heads out of your fat asses.

I had to vent.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> I was reading a Newey interview. When the tires went from treaded to slicks the fronts p/u a bit more grip than the rears. Unless the sizes changed after that Schumi got more front grip and not less. He may want more but can't complain that they went the other way.


Schumacher last drove in 2006, it was on grooved tires and during tire war so the tires were very different from what he had on this year. When Bridgestone became the sole supplier they went with conservative compounds, the switch to slicks caused the fronts to have more grip so they were reduced in size for 2010 season, Brawn got the data wrong and messed up the design of Mercedes W01, Nico's results prove it.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

F1Crazy said:


> Schumacher last drove in 2006, it was on grooved tires and during tire war so the tires were very different from what he had on this year. When Bridgestone became the sole supplier they went with conservative compounds, the switch to slicks caused the fronts to have more grip so they were reduced in size for 2010 season, Brawn got the data wrong and messed up the design of Mercedes W01, Nico's results prove it.


No more excuses from the legend, we had a full year of them, if Nico and the other young guns are still beating him its over. It would have been over mid year if it was anyone else. Track times talk and all the BS walks.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

It sounds like we may be getting rid of at least boring track: the promoters of the European Grand Prix (Valencia) want out. The reason for this is that Ecclestone charges them 30 million Euros per race event, and there just aren't enough butts in seats to make the race viable.

Perhaps even Spanish Santander fans, I mean F1 fans, are now smart enough to realize that this race is always a yawner. 

FOM (Ecclestone) is not interested in canceling the next two European Grand Prix from Valencia, but there is the possibility of moving the race to another venue. Namely, Circuito Guadalope de Alcaniz (ESP) or the Autódromo Internacional do Algarv (Portimao, Portugal). :loco:

Oh, my bad. I read about this in _*El Periodico*_, which is a Spanish newspaper. In Spanish.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> No more excuses from the legend, we had a full year of them, if Nico and the other young guns are still beating him its over. It would have been over mid year if it was anyone else. Track times talk and all the BS walks.


I am backing Spoonface for a strong run in 2011. I think.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Go back to the old thread! LG picture poll:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5649657&postcount=879


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick,

I knew you couldn't resist that Alonso post. I almost addressed it to you. :rofl:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*More of Alonso*

Alonso buoyed by gap to Massa

By Pablo Elizalde and Matt Beer Wednesday, December 1st 2010, 10:10 GMT

Fernando Alonso says he took great satisfaction from his margin of superiority over Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa this season, with the Spaniard seeing the gap as evidence that he was in his best form yet.

In an interview with Onda Cero radio, Alonso said that beating Massa by the margin that he did - with Alonso qualifying in front 15 times in 19 races and out-scoring his team-mate by 108 points - showed he had raised his game in 2010.

"It's probably the biggest gap that I have ever had to a team-mate and that makes me happy because of the results that I've had over the past years," said Alonso.

"My level of driving is better than ever and I hope I can keep it up next year."

_______________________________________________

So he is faster than Massa who was almost killed by a head injury. What an ass to say something like that.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Senna Movie*

Senna movie up for Sundance award

By Jonathan Noble Monday, December 6th 2010, 16:10 GMT

The new movie documentary on Ayrton Senna has been short listed for a prestigious award at the influential Sundance Film Festival.

'Senna' was picked out along with 11 other movies from almost 800 submissions for the World Cinema Documentary Section - and will have its North American premier at the event which takes place next January.

The Senna movie, which chronicles the Brazilian's career in F1, has already earned rave reviews following its cinematic release in Japan and Brazil.

It is due to be released in Europe in the middle of next year.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Finally*

Ecclestone puts a spin on mugging

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 09:42 GMT

Formula 1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone has proved the trauma of his recent mugging has not affected his sense of humour, or commercial nous, after making light of the incident in a new shock advert for watch brand Hublot.

Ecclestone suffered a head injury after being kicked and punched in the attack outside his London offices last month - with the assailants getting away with around £200,000 worth of jewellery.

But rather than hide away about the extent of his injuries, Ecclestone has used the incident to front a new ad campaign for Hublot - which is an official watch partner of F1.

In adverts that are due to appear in the Financial Times and the International Herald Tribune later this week, Ecclestone adorns the advert with a face shot of his injuries - under which is written: "See what people will do for a Hublot."
---------------------------------------------

His whole right eye socket is black. Darker than anything I've ever seen. He's a fool for wearing that muchvisible money . Where were his body guards? I bet he uses them now.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Rule #1 for fight club: Always lead with your face.*










*That way, it ends faster.*


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> *Rule #1 for fight club: Always lead with your face.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the picture I saw his eye was darker. Maybe either one of the pictures was doctored.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> In the picture I saw his eye was darker. Maybe either one of the pictures was doctored.


The pic that I posted was taken a day after the ass whooping. Your pic is probably later.

In my experiences with black eyes, they start out purple, green and yellow, and then get black before healing.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> The pic that I posted was taken a day after the ass whooping. Your pic is probably later.
> 
> In my experiences with black eyes, they start out purple, green and yellow, and then get black before healing.


Personal experience?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Personal experience?


Getting black eyes.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Horner disappointed at Webber secrecy 

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, December 7th 2010, 09:05 GMT 


Red Bull Racing chief Christian Horner has expressed his disappointment at the failure of Mark Webber to inform the team about the shoulder injury he picked up before the Japanese Grand Prix.
------------------------------------
I cut the rest of the article. This is another reason to dump Webber.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> cut the rest of the article. This is another reason to dump Webber.


He is obviously not very good on two wheels. :neener:

I doubt that they will get rid of him, and if they did, who would replace him? Hülkenberg? :dunno:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Getting black eyes.


Yes you had a few?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> He is obviously not very good on two wheels. :neener:
> 
> I doubt that they will get rid of him, and if they did, who would replace him? Hülkenberg? :dunno:


I would support that.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Fist talks*



franka said:


> Yes you had a few?


Yes. Plenty.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Sponsored by Santander?*

Oh no.

Even Sir Stirling Moss hates Spoonface.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/m...rt.schumacher.moss.mercedes/index.html?hpt=T2


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Oh no.
> 
> Even Sir Stirling Moss hates Spoonface.
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/m...rt.schumacher.moss.mercedes/index.html?hpt=T2


WOW the truth right there on CNN to see. Stirling is right of course about all he says including that SFace has never had a winning capable driver on his team to race against him. And that he will never be a threat in 2011.

Good job Patrick.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Badoer leaves Ferrari test role 

By Matt Beer Wednesday, December 8th 2010, 09:32 GMT 


Luca Badoer is ending his 13-year stint as a Ferrari test driver, and will make a farewell appearance at the Bologna Motor Show today, demonstrating the team's 2009 Formula 1 car.

Former Formula 3000 champion Badoer joined Ferrari as a test driver in 1998. The Italian continued in the role while also racing for Minardi the following year, before subsequently focusing entirely on his Ferrari duties.

When Felipe Massa was injured in Hungary in 2009 and intended substitute Michael Schumacher had to postpone his comeback due to a neck issue, Badoer was given a short-notice call-up to race again - 10 years after his last grand prix. But having struggled at the back of the field in Valencia and at Spa, he was replaced by Giancarlo Fisichella for the rest of the season.

The 39-year-old's final F1 career tally saw him start 50 grands prix between 1993 and 2009, with his best ever result a seventh place in the Scuderia Italia Lola at Imola in his rookie year.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Unemployed*

Did you hear how he was let go? :rofl:

Last week, when the entire SF team was in Valencia, di Montezemolo gave a speech in front everyone (and invited guests). During the speech, he announced that SF has a new test driver, and that Badoer was no longer with the team.

Ouch. Thanks for your time. :bigpimp:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Did you hear how he was let go? :rofl:
> 
> Last week, when the entire SF team was in Valencia, di Montezemolo gave a speech in front everyone (and invited guests). During the speech, he announced that SF has a new test driver, and that Badoer was no longer with the team.
> 
> Ouch. Thanks for your time. :bigpimp:


That's in chacter for di Mont...Multi times a year he demonstates it.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88616

Renault is now just an engine supplier to the "new, old Lotus group" which is using their old colors of black with gold trim. Colors are like when Andretti was driving way back when but with a diff sponsor.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88616
> 
> Renault is now just an engine supplier to the "new, old Lotus group" which is using their old colors of black with gold trim. Colors are like when Andretti was driving way back when.


This also means that Kubica is free to drive for another team if he wants to.

And there is still no word about Petrov driving for Lotus Renault. Maybe they don't need his Russian "oil" money any longer? :dunno:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The gold trim just happens to come very close to matching the new Pirelli gold or yellow lettering on the tires.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Question for the Techies Here*

I was reading in the Nov issue of Race Car Engineering that the 2013 cars will intentionally have some ground effects added by increasing the rear diffuser size, trimming wing sizes and moving the side pods further forward, even though that was primarily for better driver protection.

That these changes came from Rory Berns and Patrick Head (former Ferrari designer and Williams co-owner) who are heading up how to improve the chassis and aero regs for, get this ... improving passing.

I can't tell you how many times I posted here for ground effects to improve passing.

Can anyone speak authoratively on this with more current info? Is this still in the 2013 plans and regs?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*the "new old team" Lotus will be legally battling the even "newer, new old team"*

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88623

Seems the 2010 Team Lotus is not at all happy about the new old team owners, they even stole the colors that theyintented and announced for 2011.

There will be a massive legal battle.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

So now we have two teams named lotus and four black and gold cars. I suggest to tell them apart , think "fast lotus" vs. "broken lotus". 


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

New old, new new, old new... Confusing!

That said, I think that the Lotus Team, i.e., the team that Trulli and Kovalainen drive for, will make some pretty dramatic improvements for 2011.

New Renault engines, new hydraulics and transmissions from RBR (this was a huge problem for them in 2010), and Gascoyne is good with aerodynamics. They won't use KERS at the start of the season, however.

But there is no way that there can be two teams with basically the same livery. This mess is going to have to get figured out pretty damn fast.

-------------------

Williams is going to use the battery storage version of KERS, as they have given up on the flywheel type.

Barrichello needs to drop weight (to around 71kg) for 2011, due to KERS.

Frank Williams isn't an Alonso fan (Source: ESPNF1).


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Williams is going to use the battery storage version of KERS, as they have given up on the flywheel type.
> 
> 
> 
> > What's the source?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> What's the source?


Speedweek:

http://www.speedweek.de/

And the specific article:

http://www.speedweek.de/art_16755.html

The site is in *German*.

Apologies to my fellow Americans on the east coast (especially New England) that are afraid of publications in "foreign" languages. I realize that simply speaking English is a big enough challenge... :stickpoke

If you can access "google.com" then you can also use their excellent translation page.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

franka said:


> Patrick said:
> 
> 
> > Williams is going to use the battery storage version of KERS, as they have given up on the flywheel type.
> ...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88625

Webber claims his shoulder injury was not a problem in the car so he didn't tell the team.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> New old, new new, old new... Confusing!
> 
> But there is no way that there can be two teams with basically the same livery. This mess is going to have to get figured out pretty damn fast.
> 
> ...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick this is one of your specialties, drivers, top 10.

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/3220


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Patrick this is one of your specialties, drivers, top 10.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/3220


And I am too cheap to have a subscription to Autosport! 

-------------------

Perhaps you remember the former Dutch Formula 1 driver, Jos Verstappen. Yesterday, he commented that Renault driver Petrov was the worst of all F1 drivers in 2010.

I am inclined to believe Verstappen. He, if anyone, should know a lot about being the worst driver in Formula 1.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick...I recall him. Post for all without such info. Or just to comment. Or maybe to be the first to comment or first to post it. Or have to post it if no one else does.
--------------------

So now team orders are dropped, but not if it brings disrepute to the sport. In essence no change. Typical of F1. Still a judgement call.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88645


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Barrichello back to Ferrari?*



franka said:


> So now team orders are dropped, but not if it brings disrepute to the sport. In essence no change. Typical of F1. Still a judgement call.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88645


Massa should just quit now. He is completely screwed. :rofl:


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I wonder how much SANTANDER Bank paid the FIA to remove the rule about team orders... :rofl:

There is no transperency with the FIA. This rule change was made simply because of Alonso, Ferrari and Santander.

Hold on F1 fans, and welcome back to the age of Spoonface, Todt and FIAT. It is the year 2001 all over again.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> I wonder how much SANTANDER Bank paid the FIA to remove the rule about team orders... :rofl:
> 
> There is no transperency with the FIA. This rule change was made simply because of Alonso, Ferrari and Santander.
> 
> Hold on F1 fans, and welcome back to the age of Spoonface, Todt and FIAT. It is the year 2001 all over again.


Exactly


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Patrick said:


> I wonder how much SANTANDER Bank paid the FIA to remove the rule about team orders... :rofl:
> 
> There is no transperency with the FIA. This rule change was made simply because of Alonso, Ferrari and Santander.
> 
> Hold on F1 fans, and welcome back to the age of Spoonface, Todt and FIAT. It is the year 2001 all over again.


I saw that one coming from 10 miles away the second The Toad replaced The Turd. I f0cking despise S.F. They may be the oldest participating team in F1, but what they've done to the sport over the years is unforgivable.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

e46Christian said:


> I f0cking despise S.F. They may be the oldest participating team in F1, but what they've done to the sport over the years is unforgivable.


Well said, f0ck em I agree. MS was equally complict.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88656

Vettel gets his trophy. I like him and glad he won because the team deserved it but one has to admit he lucked into it in by the poor performance of 3 or 4 teams in the last race that would have more likely won the title. RB had some good luck that day.

Youngest ever champ at 23 doesn't leave him much more to achieve in F1 beside breaking Schumi's win record and that will be hard to do with a standup honest team. Winning like Ferrari/Schumi did is not the ultimate.

Newey, and possibly Horner are The Man, The Men that really made it possible the car has to be capable, the driver can not carry it to a win. To keep winning will get ever harder for the team.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Points Sys*

Maybe teams should be awarded points each race based partially on the number of laps completed. If you go out early or at the end of the race it does have an affect on overall performance evaluation. Or should it be just tough sh** if you are running at or near the top and you break or...on last lap?

There are both good and bad reasons with all sorts of situations, combinations, permutations that one can dream up. Punchures, knocked out, mech failures, mistakes, told to crash someone, on and on.

What do YOU think?


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Maybe teams should be awarded points each race based partially on the number of laps completed. If you go out early or at the end of the race it does have an affect on overall performance evaluation. Or should it be just tough sh** if you are running at or near the top and you break or...on last lap?
> 
> There are both good and bad reasons with all sorts of situations, combinations, permutations that one can dream up. Punchures, knocked out, mech failures, mistakes, told to crash someone, on and on.
> 
> What do YOU think?


Points based on the order you finish. End of story.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I think that P1 in qualifying and fastest race lap should get a point, just like GP2 and GP3.

Otherwise, leave it as is.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

I've got no problem with a point for pole. They tried that " point for fastest lap" thing in Champ Car and it lead to backmarkers pitting for fresh tires at the end of the race to do hot laps. It was stupid and pointless. 
Racing is about winning. Who cares if the guy who finished 5th did the fastest lap on the last lap of the race. 


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I think that it is interesting that team orders were banned because of Ferrari.

And now that Todt is the boss of the FIA, team orders are allowed... because of Ferrari.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> I've got no problem with a point for pole. They tried that " point for fastest lap" thing in *Champ Car* and it lead to backmarkers pitting for fresh tires at the end of the race to do hot laps. It was stupid and pointless.
> Racing is about winning. Who cares if the guy who finished 5th did the fastest lap on the last lap of the race.


Yeah, but that was in a racing series that is stupid and pointless. 

Name a "backmarker" in Formula 1 that has a chance - even with new tires - to set a fastest lap at the end of the race... Right.

That does not happen in GP2 either.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Points based on the order you finish. End of story.


I'm not suggesting that points based on order of finish be changed at all, just maybe get some partial points for laps completed.

No offense intended, but maybe you, as well as other humans, are too used to the current sys that you have lived with for years.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> Yeah, but that was in a racing series that is stupid and pointless.
> 
> Name a "backmarker" in Formula 1 that has a chance - even with new tires - to set a fastest lap at the end of the race... Right.
> 
> That does not happen in GP2 either.


Well, I did like Champ Car much more than IRL. I can't even stand to watch an IRL race whereas I usually found Champ Car entertaining. At least they passed each other (although rarely without hitting).



franka said:


> I'm not suggesting that points based on order of finish be changed at all, just maybe get some partial points for laps completed.
> 
> No offense intended, but maybe you, as well as other humans, are too used to the current sys that you have lived with for years.


I just don't see the reason to give points if you don't finish. A big part of F1 is the engineering challenge. To me that means designing cars that will finish races. Maybe it's just me but I like the purity of knowing that my guy was either in the points or he wasn't. I think it would be less exciting if my driver had an engine failure two laps from the end and I could say "well , at least he got 3/4 of a point". I like the finality of a DNF. Besides, name me any racing series in the world where you get awarded if you DNF. (doesn't have to be motor racing).


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> Yeah, but that was in a racing series that is stupid and pointless.
> 
> Name a "backmarker" in Formula 1 that has a chance - even with new tires - to set a fastest lap at the end of the race... Right.
> 
> That does not happen in GP2 either.


Also , lets be honest... isn't most motor racing stupid and pointless? I get pretty tired of the FIA saying they want F1 to be green and relevant to the auto industry. I just want to watch , and have my eardrums shattered by the fastest , loudest cars on the planet and I don't care if it's relevant or not.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Also , lets be honest... isn't most motor racing stupid and pointless? I get pretty tired of the FIA saying they want F1 to be green and relevant to the auto industry. I just want to watch , and have my eardrums shattered by the fastest , loudest cars on the planet and I don't care if it's relevant or not.


It is relevant if they want the series to continue and not loose more audience and/or shut down by public protest of noise and vast waste. The turbo will cut some noise plus add eff.

The possiblity of public protest is what is driving the green changes, that plus cost reduction. Its in drag racing, stock car, rally, etc whether you like it or not, and we know you don't.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Well, I did like Champ Car much more than IRL. I can't even stand to watch an IRL race whereas I usually found Champ Car entertaining. At least they passed each other (although rarely without hitting).
> 
> I just don't see the reason to give points if you don't finish. A big part of F1 is the engineering challenge. To me that means designing cars that will finish races. Maybe it's just me but I like the purity of knowing that my guy was either in the points or he wasn't. I think it would be less exciting if my driver had an engine failure two laps from the end and I could say "well , at least he got 3/4 of a point". I like the finality of a DNF. Besides, name me any racing series in the world where you get awarded if you DNF. (doesn't have to be motor racing).


Its not so cut and dried. I noted that in my post above.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> It is relevant if they want the series to continue and not loose more audience and/or shut down by public protest of noise and vast waste. The turbo will cut some noise plus add eff.
> 
> The possiblity of public protest is what is driving the green changes, that plus cost reduction. Its in drag racing, stock car, rally, etc whether you like it or not, and we know you don't.


I'm still not buying the relevancy argument. NASCAR is hugely popular in this country , and they're still useing carbuerated , pushrod engines. Not relevant to anything but the classic car or Harley Davidson industry.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> I'm still not buying the relevancy argument. NASCAR is hugely popular in this country , and they're still useing carbuerated , pushrod engines. Not relevant to anything but the classic car or Harley Davidson industry.


NASCAR is going to fuel injection and is not a potential public protest threat in many other countries like F1 can be.

Argue as you may they are going greener w/ or w/o you. Do you think these changes are for the fun of change? Do you think they would not prefer loud, high winding engines for the world crowds if there was no potential threat?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Turn left racing*



jonathan2263 said:


> I'm still not buying the relevancy argument. *NASCAR is hugely popular in this country* , and they're still useing carbuerated , pushrod engines. Not relevant to anything but the classic car or Harley Davidson industry.


And hugely unpopular everywhere else.

Next.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Team Lotus to keep green livery*

As you predicted Patrick....

By Jonathan Noble Saturday, December 11th 2010, 15:25 GMT

Team Lotus will now stick with its green and yellow colours for 2011 after chief Tony Fernandes said it would be 'ludicrous' for his squad to run in the same paint scheme as the rebranded Lotus Renault outfit.


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

I think F1 should go green but they should go about it differently. Instead of changing the engine regs to 4 cylinder turbo engines which the world already knows is an efficient package open the engine regs and give the teams a fuel load limit. If manufactures are allowed to build there own engine new innovations can be developed and that will be the only way f1 can trickle down into road cars.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> I think F1 should go green but they should go about it differently. Instead of changing the engine regs to 4 cylinder turbo engines which the world already knows is an efficient package open the engine regs and give the teams a fuel load limit. If manufactures are allowed to build there own engine new innovations can be developed and that will be the only way f1 can trickle down into road cars.


I agree totally.

But 4 cyl turbos is what the major auto mkrs are or soon will be making, so its what they want and the FIA agrees that the auto folks should have major input.

Even if they let the 4 cyl be arrainged as wanted then some teams could go the way of motor cycle mfgrs including BMW just recently and some MotoGP bikes with V4s. Some very high tech V4s. Or other arrangements. But its just inline which is cheaper and easier to package.

Fuel only limit would be the fastest way to advance green but the research costs would be too high for any teams but the most rich. And cost containment is an objective though very hard to police.

Still I would love to see fuel limits only.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Walkinshaw Dies.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88672


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)




----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Agreed and only at 64.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Agreed and only at 64.


I didn't even know that he was unwell. RIP.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> I didn't even know that he was unwell. RIP.


Cancer, its an epedimic.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

FI Clamps down on Driving Standards. :rofl:

Does this mean they will enforce the rules? 

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88686


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Renault not claiming Lotus heritage 
By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, December 14th 2010, 11:10 GMT

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88689

I'm posting this only because its another aspect to Team Lotus and Group Lotus clashes previously discussed.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> FI Clamps down on Driving Standards. :rofl:
> 
> Does this mean they will enforce the rules?
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88686


I think that it does. The FIA also announced that race stewards now have more power to dole out harsher penalties.

We will see what happens the next time that Spoonface tries to "kill" Barrichello at 320km/h.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Stewards and others in authority have never been able to hand out penalties in a consistent, race to race, manner.

I can't see a variety of stewards being consistent. :dunno: Sounds like nothing but the rules have changed.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Opinion...More Testing*

Di Montezemolo has been pushing for 3 car teams and more testing.

I agree that the testing limits are way too tight, even absurd. The cars are extremely complex and sensitive. In my opinion much more testing should be allowed.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Di Montezemolo has been pushing for 3 car teams and more testing.
> 
> I agree that the testing limits are way too tight, even absurd. The cars are extremely complex and sensitive. In my opinion much more testing should be allowed.


Agreed. Might even help the new teams get up to speed (relatively speaking). Lots of the testing they used to do was for tires so now that they don't need to do that any more, maybe they could loosen up the rules a bit to encourage development. Especially during the off season. Maybe limit testing during the season to keep costs down.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Agreed. Might even help the new teams get up to speed (relatively speaking). Lots of the testing they used to do was for tires so now that they don't need to do that any more, maybe they could loosen up the rules a bit to encourage development. Especially during the off season. Maybe limit testing during the season to keep costs down.


I agree that especially new teams needing to test. Everyone needs to test.

Teams will be testing tires all year. That is a lot of what happens on race weekends on Fridays and Saturday b4 qualifying.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Why not pick four races per season, where after the race is over (Sunday), teams can stay there for two extra days (Monday-Tuesday) and test. Two, three hour sessions per day.

:dunno:

Everything is already there, so it is not like each team has to fly out for the test.

More off season testing, especially this season, is also needed. With KERS, new tires, new aero equipment, new drivers = need for testing.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> I agree that especially new teams needing to test. Everyone needs to test.
> 
> Teams will be testing tires all year. That is a lot of what happens on race weekends on Fridays and Saturday b4 qualifying.


Tire testing is a big part of friday practice but now it's less about tire development and more about judging performance on the tires supplied. I'm not positive but I think that is less costly or time consuming.



Patrick said:


> Why not pick four races per season, where after the race is over (Sunday), teams can stay there for two extra days (Monday-Tuesday) and test. Two, three hour sessions per day.
> 
> :dunno:
> 
> ...


Test days after races would be a good idea. Would cut down on costs and fall in step with the new "green" attitude: not burning all that fuel to move the circus from one location to another. Just so long as one of those sessions is in Canada...


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> Test days after races would be a good idea. Would cut down on costs and fall in step with the new "green" attitude: not burning all that fuel to move the circus from one location to another. Just so long as one of those sessions is in Canada...


Yep.

And if "they" are clever about where the post-race tests are, I am sure that Ecclestone will be able to make some money out of it. Fans will come and watch the testing, just like they do at Silverstone and Barcelona.

-----------------------

Bad news for the 2014 Russian Grand Prix.

Tilke is designing the track. :tsk:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Why not pick four races per season, where after the race is over (Sunday), teams can stay there for two extra days (Monday-Tuesday) and test. Two, three hour sessions per day.
> Everything is already there, so it is not like each team has to fly out for the test.
> 
> More off season testing, especially this season, is also needed. With KERS, new tires, new aero equipment, new drivers = need for testing.


Good idea. :thumbup:

But many teams want to test in private for good reason.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Fiorano = No Fly Zone*



franka said:


> But Ferrari wants to test in private for some reason.


I fixed your post...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Though most teams would prefer private testing I'm sure that many teams would want to take advantage of open, public, testing if it was free or relatively so in comparison to cost of closed track for two days.

Especially the new or the bottom half teams.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> I fixed your post...


I see that, though the word I would use is 'altered' not 'fixed'.

And I'm not going to bite the bait. :rofl:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Not much talk in this thread recently. So for all you Schu fans this should get you excited.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88746


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Renault (Lotus ?) signs Petrov for two more years. Guess his Russian money will be buying lots of replacement parts...


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> Renault (Lotus ?) signs Petrov for two more years. Guess his Russian money will be buying lots of replacement parts...


It's really sad what happened with all these pay-for-drive seats at Formula 1. There's always been seats like these in less funded teams that allowed the team to hire new talents (Minardi and Sauber were famous for it) but in a team with championship aspirations?!

Run Robert, run...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*3 Subjects*

Nico R came very close to doubling the points that Schumi collected last season. Nico came in 7th behind the top 3 team drivers (6 of them). Good for Nico but another season or two like that and Mercedes will have to think hard about Ross and Schumi. Go Nico.

The rule changes for drivers and teams in 2011 are very different in many ways than they used to be. Very much more detailed and eliminating a number of things that the drivers used to be able to do. Like forcing cars off the track for just one. More change than anything we have seen in the last 10 or more years.

The new adjustable rear wings come with strict electronic control ... from the race officials. There will be only certain times when the driver can control the wing depending on a number of variables like how close he is to the car in front, how far he is down the straight ....this lap, etc, all depending again on other variables and electronics from the officials. Nothing like anything we have ever seen.

Sorry I can't be more specific. I was reading about all this for free at a Border's magazine rack. It has boggled my mind.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Domenical considered quitting....
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88803


He should still consider it... Undoubtedly, Santander Bank is.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

I'm home sick today but Speedtv is replaying the Monaco gp so things could be worse. I'll let you all know who wins it this time around.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

12 noon EST, 11 am here in CST Dallas. Thanks.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Well it took some time, but the axe has finally fallen. Chris Dyer has been relieved of his duties as head race engineer and replaced by former Macca man, Pat Fry. Hopefully, the stupid pitwall decisions that cost the scuderia a title will end. (sorry Patrick)


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Well it took some time, but the axe has finally fallen. Chris Dyer has been relieved of his duties as head race engineer and replaced by former Macca man, Pat Fry. Hopefully, the stupid pitwall decisions that cost the scuderia a title will end. (sorry Patrick)


Fry was formerly with McLaren and Red Bull. He is now head of Operations Research (OR) with Ferrari which is one of the Engrg branches that uses and mixes probablity and statistics, computer simulation and high level math to predict and optimize outcomes involving many variables. OR is a whole field unto its own. For example, airlines have whole OR deptments that plan company wide flight patterns, times, number of airpanes reqd and make min by min changes to plane allocations in response to weather and other problems.

I mention this only to point out the super high levels to which F1 teams have gone. They use their OR teams before and on race day to make split second, on the fly, tactical decisions, even to change race strategies in response to on track actions. No more one guy sitting on the wall making the decisions. These are the guys that the teams mostly leave home with their main frames and are on the phone with during the race. Fry is now the head of them and will probably attend most or all the races.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*F1 Set Back 20 Years due to paid Drivers*

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88848


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*First Team to Leave FOTA*

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88850

Good for them.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88850
> 
> Good for them.


I heard that they were kicked out... for failing to pay last year's $100,000 FOTA membership fee. :rofl:

Wtf does FOTA do with $1.2 million Dollars? I mean, 12 teams X $100,000 is a large chunk of change. Must be some good parties for the team bosses.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Enough is enough.*

*Scuderia Santanderri*

It is time to change the name and get rid of the Prancing Horse.

Santander has now increased its sponsorship in SF, replacing Mubadala as the "hat" sponsor for the team. :rofl:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Turk GP is on Speed today at noon EST. This is good for all F1 fans snowed and iced in, in the South of the USA.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*What did he say?*

(REUTERS) El Banco was asked on Wednesday, who he thought *HIS* biggest challenge would come from for the 2011 driver's championship.

Santander's reply will not impress franka, but here is a hint:










(BBC) Massa was asked yesterday, if his teammate, El Banco, is Ferrari's #1 driver going into the 2011 season. Surprisingly and quite unexpectedly, Massa said, "no." :loco:

My first reaction was that Massa is still in a coma, but he went to explain (once again before the start of a new season) that he was "unlucky" in 2010, and that his teammate simply had a better season that he did. It was basically the same statement that he made in January 2008... at the same place, Madonna di Campiglio. :rofl:

At least Massa is consistent.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Yes...I read several stories where alledgedly Ferrari was turning over a new leaf and letting their drivers compete. This is from the same people that wanted team orders abolished.

Ferrari is often right near the top in cars, points and drivers but their stories are just full of BS. And as we all know they can never be belived. :tsk: :rofl:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

From The Man at Ferrari, about his drivers and more. I just got it a few mins ago.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88925


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> (REUTERS) El Banco was asked on Wednesday, who he thought *HIS* biggest challenge would come from for the 2011 driver's championship.
> 
> Santander's reply will not impress franka, but here is a hint:
> 
> ...


Can we please keep the F1 thread free from Nazi imagery and other hateful BS? Thanks.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> Can we please keep the F1 thread free from Nazi imagery and other hateful BS? Thanks.


Start your own F1 thread then, chief.

That pic of Spoonface has been around longer than you have been a member of the Fest.

And it is just a picture... Thanks.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

The new Pirelli extreme cold weather tires for Formula 1 are ready for testing:










:bigpimp:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Martin Brundle on Schumi's coming back to F1*

Below is a piece of a longer article. I post it as further evidence of what I have been saying about Schumi all along, back when many others thought he was Superman and that it was only he that made the Ferrari team single handedly.

Sure he was good, but not to the extent that he has been given credit for, he had everything on his side back then. I'll spare myself and others from running the whole list again. Here is part of the article and what Brundle said just a few days ago...

________________________

.....Brundle, who was Schumacher's team-mate at Benetton in 1992, believes that Schumacher's biggest difficulty was in finding himself in a different situation from when he was clear number one at Ferrari.

"I think he is struggling a bit from not having all the deck of cards in his favour," Brundle explained.

"When he was at Ferrari he had the best people around him, and they had all sorts of support. He developed the Bridgestone tyres and he was king of the castle - his team-mate was there to support his efforts and would often be sent out to check a set of tyres which Michael didn't want to waste time doing. "Michael had a lot of advantages". .....


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*McLaren bring old car to 1st test.*

Just my opinion but I think McLaren not bringing their new car to the first test is a good idea for the reasons they say.

But it also could be they have something they don't want others to see. That seems so obvious but I haven't seen / heard that anywhere. Sure others will see it at the folowing test but by then it may be too late to incorporate it.

Or they may just be late and tire testing is their cover story.

Anyone care to comment? :dunno:


----------



## TheDrivingG (Dec 30, 2009)

*No Rome GP*



TheDrivingG said:


> Talking about losing tracks, Enrico Ferrari fears that they might lose Monza to Rome:
> 
> Got to put on the BS filter when reading comments from both sides as both sides have vested interests in the upcoming concorde agreement. If Bernie were stupid enough to give the Italian GP to Rome instead of Monza, it would be insane :yikes:  The Tifosi would hunt him down.


Looks like Bernie has said no to Rome GP, thankfully at least not at Monza's expense. Would absolutely hate to see one of the last super fast tracks replaced by yet another boring street circuit.:loco:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9360959.stm

Anyone saw this video; it is an overlay of 2 videos of F1 cars and GT cars taking the Eau Rouge corner. You can debate about angles, perspective, video speed up e.t.c. but it shows how insanely fast F1 cars can be:

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/13/videos-your-porsche-911-gt3-isnt-that-fast/


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

That's a terrific clip. Amazingly fast. Thanks for posting it. :thumbup:

+1 on the BS.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Red hot!


 Great picture of a Ferrari. Thanks Patrick.


----------



## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

I have a funny feeling the same luck will befall him the rest of the season, while El Gloomio waltzes by unscathed.


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Poor Massa ever since his accident it's been nothing but bad luck for him. Hopefully his luck will change before race weekend.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This may be his last season with Ferrari as 1 of 2 drivers, performance wise I'm saying. Unless he has a good year and can keep with, or beat Alonso. Not likely.

Anyone know when his contract ends?


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Anyone know when his contract ends?


Ferrari's #2 driver has a contract that expires at the end of this (2011) season.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Ferrari's #2 driver has a contract that expires at the end of this (2011) season.


Thanks Patrick.

Well that cinches it. It's Massa's last year at Ferrari, and as the number 2 driver despite promises made to the contrary.

So who will they pirate (with Santander $$$) for his replacement for 2012? :dunno: Yes its a bit early to speculate, especially since 2011 hasn't even started, but that is what we and the media do.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm even more convinced that McLaren did the right thing testing the new tires with the old car, rather than throwing all the new car variables in with the new tire variables.

I say this because interviews with other teams and their drivers are all over the place regarding the new tires.

Their new car looks good and fast too.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*McLaren New Car*

I just got this about the McLaren.. after above post.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89288


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Thanks Patrick.
> 
> Well that cinches it. It's Massa's last year at Ferrari, and as the number 2 driver despite promises made to the contrary.
> 
> So who will they pirate (with Santander $$$) for his replacement for 2012? :dunno: Yes its a bit early to speculate, especially since 2011 hasn't even started, but that is what we and the media do.


In all honesty, I am surprised that Massa is driving for SF this season.

The only way that Massa has a shot at saving his seat with the team, is if he beats El Banco this year. And can you imagine the size of the sh!t storm that would create? :rofl:

_*"This is ridiculous!"*_

If Massa takes a pay cut for 2012, he will probably drive for Renault or Sauber. Otherwise, NASCRAP will come calling.

Kubica will drive for FIAT with Santander/Alonso.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*McLaren*

Here is one last link to the new McLaren. I will strictly limit these links as some people don't like me doing this and, its work for me too, that I have little time for.

Fake, plastic engine, to hide sectrets, is just one of the points in this link.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89292


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

So far all the top teams say they have something that won't be on the car until closer to race weekend it would be really funny if they all have the same secret weapon that they are all trying to hide from each other. I think so far the awards for most radical designed top team car go to Mecca and Renault and Ferrari the most boring.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*Not good*

Holy crap.

I heard that Kubica has at least, a broken wrist.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89309


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

What a shame if he can't start the season, especially in a car that could be very fast. This could be a major turning point in his professional life


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Gazzetta dello Sport (an Italian newspaper) is reporting that Kubica may lose his hand as a result of this accident.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

His surgery started 45 minutes ago... Damn.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Thats extreme for a broken hand. To lose a hand it must have been close to, or maybe even severed or crushed. Let's all wish, pray, hope, or what you do, that he comes out of this in good condition. Or at least doesn't lose a hand.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Renault had been talking about having a depth of reserve drivers. Looking back now seems almost as if something was pre-ordained to happen to their main drivers.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*This is pretty serious, folks*

Renault has 5 reserve drivers. Which is a bit strange. Senna is rumored to be the replacement for Kubica.

Kubica has leg and arm injuries from the crash - he crashed at high speed, into the wall of a church, and had to be extracted (by the fire department) from his car.

This really sucks... 

Here is a pic of his car, or what is left of it (Skoda Fabia).


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

His right side leg, arm and hand each suffered multiple fractures. They say a barrier entered the car from the right side, near the end of the crash, and that is what injured him and why its all on his right side.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Very strange accident, his co-pilot escaped with absolutely no injuries. There are reports that Kubica's car lost contact with the tarmac after hitting a bulge made by the root of a tree.

Daniel Morelli says the hand will be saved but it's unclear whether he will have full functionality with it.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Maybe the very low seat position of all co-pilots saved his this co-pilots life. That's if its true that the barrier came into the car from the right side.


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Kubica is a great driver and I hope he fully recovers. It would be a shame not seeing what that Renault can do in a great drivers hands.


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Here is the YouTube video of the aftermath of the crash looks like the barrier went threw the back of the car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9qK1h1rxQ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## TheDrivingG (Dec 30, 2009)

Patrick said:


> Gazzetta dello Sport (an Italian newspaper) is reporting that Kubica may lose his hand as a result of this accident.


:yikes::yikes::jawdrop:

I really hope that's not the case, would hate to see that to a really good F1 driver (or to any human)


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

It's unofficial but Kubica will likely have full functionality of the right hand restored. 
Surgery is performed by Dr Mario Igor Rossello, one of the best specialists in Europe with 30 years of experience.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

*For Patrick*

Alonso arrived at the hospital... :eeps:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Kubica's hand was partially severed and so far doctors are hopefull for a full use recovery, though they won't know for a week or more. He is currently in a chemically induced comma, after acknowledging what happened to him, and also on purpose for pain relief and rest for a couple days at least. All are thrilled that his brain seems to be fine.

Renault corp knew of the risks in rallying and approved his participation.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Kubica*

Professor Mario Igor Rossello, the hand specialist who worked on Kubica, said he was encouraged by how the operation had gone but admitted it was too early to say how well the driver would recover.

"It has been a very important and difficult operation," he said. "Robert Kubica's right forearm was cut in two places, with significant lesions to the bones and the tendons. We did our best to rebuild the functions of the forearm.

"It took seven doctors, split into two teams and a total of seven hours to complete the operation. One team was the emergency task force from the hospital of San Paolo (Savona) that is normally appointed to treat this sort of injury, while the other team came from the orthopaedic department of the Santa Corona Hospital (Pietra Ligure).

"At the end of the operation, Robert's hand was well vascularised and warm, which is encouraging. Following the surgery, Robert Kubica will remain under permanent monitoring overnight because his condition remains serious."


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Well, everything sounds very encouraging for Kubica making a complete recovery, but how long it takes is a huge question mark. At least a year sounds about right, but thankfully, he isn't going to die.

There have been strange rumors floating out there (here in Finland) since yesterday, about who will replace him at Renault. Räikkönen? Nope. Kovalainen? No.

I would guess either Hülkenberg or Heidfeld. :eeps:

Thoughts? :dunno:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

They said Senna


----------



## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

Senna's experience is one year with HRT ... Kubica could be a world champion someday .... unless Renault wants to write off 2011, they might want to look for someone with more experience.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> They said Senna


What I heard was that Senna could replace him if it was for a short period of time. If Kubica is out for the entire season, I can't really see Renault having Petrov and Senna as their drivers. They need someone as a #1 driver, and neither of those two are ready.

I have never been a Heidfeld fan (ever), but at least he isn't a rookie.

Liuzzi? :dunno:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I mentioned earlier about it affecting his career. And more than about saving his life and limbs, which is plenty good enough.

But if the Renault turns out to be very fast, as some of the speculation alleges, he may have missed the career oppurtunity to be win the 2011 Championship.

If I were he, I would lament it some, but gladly trade the 2011 Championship for being alive, and with functioning hands, arms, legs and brain, and being able to walk and function like a normal person. 

The next few weeks will be critical and telling.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

description how it happened

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/89327


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

This is just after the crash (around 3:20 min into video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALbxMiwf4nw&feature=player_embedded


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/photo-gallery/6737995/First-Images-Of-HRT-s-F111#photo=0

It's nice to see, judging from the livery, that someone in F1 still has a sense of humor. I particularly like the logo on the rear wing endplate.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Yikes.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick...thanks for that insight video.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> Patrick...thanks for that insight video.


No clue what his speed was at impact, but it is pretty disgusting to even think about what sort of damage that could do to a human body. The guardrail "only" hit his leg, arm and shoulder.

Kubica is seriously lucky to be alive...

More surgery on Thursday (shoulder and leg), and then additional operations next week on his elbow.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This was truely inches from being dead.


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## TheDrivingG (Dec 30, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> It's nice to see, judging from the livery, that someone in F1 still has a sense of humor. I particularly like the logo on the rear wing endplate.


:rofl: Yes, good to see some humor. I liked the warning label near the sidepod air intake "strong suction effect, hold on to something" :rofl:
Interesting nose. Does that cockpit look long to you guys??



franka said:


> This was truely close to being inches from being dead.


Crazy indeed. I thought the Canada GP accident was worse yet he walked away from it and this one almost killed him.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

New Team Lotus testing video:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks Patrick. 

In my opinion it was a boring pc of marketing. Lacked excitement. 

The car will have to be much better than the clip if they want to do any better than the bottom 20%.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

:rofl:

Ford is suing Ferrari for naming their 2011 Formula 1 car "F150." :thumbup:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Ford is suing Ferrari for naming their 2011 Formula 1 car "F150." :thumbup:


I wondered about that connection when I first herad of Ferrari's F-150. Ferrari just needs to change to F-151 and save the legal costs and efforts.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

franka said:


> I wondered about that connection when I first herad of Ferrari's F-150. Ferrari just needs to change to F-151 and save the legal costs and efforts.


Supposedly, the name (F150) is in honor of Italy being united for 150 years in 2011.

Anyway, I fail to see the connection between a Formula 1 car and a mass produced pickup truck.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> Supposedly, the name (F150) is in honor of Italy being united for 150 years in 2011.
> 
> Anyway, I fail to see the connection between a Formula 1 car and a mass produced pickup truck.


I can see that but still. What you think or feel is irrelevant.

Its simply a legal matter and Ford has used F-150 for years. Ferrari could use 150-F and avoid all the trouble that will come if they do not change, unless they can come to some agreement with Ford. But I have to assume that path has been explored.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Why not just officially change the name to "Ferrari 150," and then refer to it as F150 whenever they want? :dunno:

I would be king of funny if the Ferrari bosses really didn't know about the Ford F-150 when they chose the name.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/6744324/Ferrari-react-quickly-to-lawsuit

Bad blood between Ferrari and Ford goes back about 45 years. No surprise they sued. This should resolve it.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Good thinking Pat, and thanks for the link Jon.

So Ferrari changed the name. Best thing to do.

Ford and Ferrari bad blood goes back to around 1964 I think. Ford tried to buy Ferrari, had a deal all worked out and Ferrari backed out at the last min. Ford was very pissed and personally at Mr Ferrari. So they built the GT40s to beat Ferrari at Le Mans and they did. Ford kicked their ass bad, and for a few years, if I recall that correctly.

I may have the dates wrong but the story is basically correct. And that is where the new GT40s history comes from. Ford wanted to keep the looks close to the original car.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

That was a quick resolution to a ridiculous situation!


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Patrick said:


> That was a quick resolution to a ridiculous situation!


And no doubt due to my sage suggestions to Ferrari...:rofl:

Sorry but I couldn't help that.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Good thinking Pat, and thanks for the link Jon.
> 
> So Ferrari changed the name. Best thing to do.
> 
> ...


http://golikehellthebook.com/
For more on the background of that story, read this book. Pretty interesting stuff for any motor racing fan.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Kubica Quote*

Below is a quote from Kubica, off of Autosport. Makes me wonder if rallying has the better drivers....

".....Had I not done it, I would have stayed home regretting it," he said. "So I did it and now I'm in this bed. But rallies aren't just a passion. They are though, severe training for F1.

"I drive better in F1 because I did many rallies last year. Rallying helps your concentration, especially since there is almost no more testing in F1. Performance in F1 comes from a series of details.

"Rallying has allowed me to work on certain aspects of myself where there are still margins to improve. It's important in a season like this with 20 races....."


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://golikehellthebook.com/
> For more on the background of that story, read this book. Pretty interesting stuff for any motor racing fan.


That link you posted is terrific, with links to other related articles like in the New York Times, to name one.

Thanks.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> That link you posted is terrific, with links to other related articles like in the New York Times, to name one.
> 
> Thanks.


Your welcome. And still , read the book. Very interesting stuff.

And I spent hours following the video links to old sports car racing snippets. Very cool.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3524.../Heidfeld-Tries-Out-For-Lotus-Renault#photo=1

Anyone noticed the pics from testing today. Merc has gone back to the single engine intake while Lotus and Force India are trying the duel intake. Very interesting...


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3524.../Heidfeld-Tries-Out-For-Lotus-Renault#photo=1
> 
> Anyone noticed the pics from testing today. Merc has gone back to the single engine intake while Lotus and Force India are trying the duel intake. Very interesting...


Hey Jon, great snaps. Its going to be an exciting season.

Too bad my man won't be there this year. Still its better to miss a season than to lose a limb, hand or your life.

My best wishes to my man Kubica. :thumbup:


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Hey Jon, great snaps. Its going to be an exciting season.
> 
> Too bad my man won't be there this year. Still its better to miss a season than to lose a limb, hand or your life.
> 
> My best wishes to my man Kubica. :thumbup:


It sounds like he will be back though. I'm hoping he makes a full recovery, I rate him as one of the top 3 drivers and we need more guys like him and less that have a ride due to having more sponsorship than skill.

And yes, it could be very interesting this year. Lots of teams seem to be trying new stuff. I can't wait to see what works and what bombs.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Kubica says that but he has had massive injuries and he ain't as young as in his last accident. Still he can not be counted out. He can heal but then there still is the question can he drive as quickly or even quicker than before the incident?

He says he can but only the months ahead will tell.

And if Heidfield is doing good thru most of the season, say in the top 5, will they take him out to put in Kubica? Proabaly not, and for sevearal reasons. One being points.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Has anyone found a good picture of the Renault exhaust ducts yet? I'm desperate to see what they're doing. 

Also, has anyone else noticed that the "nose ridges" are a lot less pronounced this year, especially on the Redbull?

And I think it's interesting how Merc has abandoned the twin engine intakes but Lotus and Macca are running versions of it.


BTW... cancelling Bahrain sucks but it was the right thing to do.


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## TheDrivingG (Dec 30, 2009)

TheDrivingG said:


> Here is an article explaining Renault's exhaust system: Linky.
> 
> Very interesting solution! Must be quite an engineering feat to take care of all that heat. If McLaren are planning on doing the same, the gains must be worth the re-work. I love the innovations and solutions in F1! I really hope they don't ever go to a spec chassis/engine....





jonathan2263 said:


> Has anyone found a good picture of the Renault exhaust ducts yet? I'm desperate to see what they're doing.
> 
> BTW... cancelling Bahrain sucks but it was the right thing to do.


Hi Jonathan,

See the above post, best article I found explaining Renault exhaust and picture.

I guess we'll have to wait for two more weeks to see a race


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

At least the teams won't lose the testing time originally planned for Bahrain. 8-11 March, they will test at Barcelona.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

This cancellation is probably good news for McLaren as they struggle with their new car.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

TheDrivingG said:


> Hi Jonathan,
> 
> See the above post, best article I found explaining Renault exhaust and picture.
> 
> I guess we'll have to wait for two more weeks to see a race


Thanks for the link. I think I've seen that before. I'm really hoping to find a good photo but it doesn't seem to exist. I think it's a pretty interesting concept and at the very least should have an unusual sound. Most F1 cars are louder when they're going away from you, I'll bet the Renault will be louder coming towards you. We have seats at the entrance to the hairpin in Canada so that should give good audio...maybe I'll be able to get some live video with sound to post.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm going to be in the middle of the hairpin can't wait to see and hear all of the cars come and then go


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## ColomBull (Nov 27, 2009)

white75li said:


> I'm going to be in the middle of the hairpin can't wait to see and hear all of the cars come and then go


I would love to be there.


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## ColomBull (Nov 27, 2009)

Just got the 2010 F1 PS3 game to console me till the 2011 season finally starts.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Here are some of the car details plus related news to help get some of us to the first race.

http://www.formula1.com/default.html


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I'm looking forward to seeing how well the super low rear of the Williams will do.

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/2011/0/837.html


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

So now that the testing is almost done who does everyone think is going to be strong I know it's only testing but we can get somewhat of an idea. I think Ferrari and RB racing are going to be the teams to beat both put a lot of miles on the cars and had good pace. McLaren is worrying me they did have a late start but the pace still doesn't seem to be there just yet but as always will be up there fighting for the title. The surprise is going to be Williams and Renault both cars have innovative cars but neither have a strong # 2 driver wich may hurt them. I'm dying to see the first race to see were everyone is really at.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Parr: Innovation will revive Williams*

Below is just the end few paragraphs from an Autosport article about the new Williams. I'm posting it because I feel it applies to all teams and the whole of F1. FYI Parr is William's Chairman and Sam Micheal heads up the technical end. 
______________________________________________________________________

"....Michael added that he felt the current season was the ideal time to try design innovations.

"When we started having standard diffusers and all these restrictions, I thought this is getting really dull. We're really dumbing down F1," he said.

"But it's doing the opposite because ... by not being able to work on the diffuser you then say 'right, here's something [else] that might give you two tenths', whether it's the gearbox or the exhaust or whatever. But you have to differentiate yourself because if you don't you're going to be at the back.

"So you all have nice simple cars but anyone that finds two tenths is suddenly going to be at the front because the gaps are so close. So I think it is having the opposite effect [to dumbing down], which I think is very good for F1.

"These are the most standardised regulations that F1 has ever had and the cars look completely different. Look at the different designs that everybody has got. I didn't predict it would be like that."


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Bummer for Petrov. 

His father's company, located in Vyborg, Russia, was raided by the Russian special police last week. Their search found a significant amount of illegal drugs and weapons.

It was Petrov's father, Alexander, that arranged many of the sponsorship deals that got him into Formula One...


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

So Bernie is suggesting artificial rain in the middle of a Grand Prix. In hopes of creating a more exciting race. I don't agree with this it's getting alittle ridicules F1 is turning into a video game push Y for boost then make it rain by pushing X and L at the same time and Bernie will make it rain. Just have the guys race and stop changing to rules every year so the cars can even up then we might see some real passing instead of these fake gimmicks.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Agreed. Maybe Bernie is suffering side effects of all the hormone therapies and plastic surgeries.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Medals, fake rain storms, short cuts... The Turd was mentally unstable when he was the FIA Führer, but Ecclestone has completely lost it. :tsk:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

What will happen when Bernie is gone, soon I hope? Does anyone know if there are succession plans in place? Surely there are. :dunno:


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## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

My anti-Bernie rant for the day -- 

I know helikes authoritarian governments because they can get things done ... do you think the unrest in the Middle East has altered his view any? Maybe they could hand out medals to the driver that turns in the fastest lap when the sprinklers are on? 

On more positive note, when F1 starts running turbo 4 engines, all those of us with a turbo 4 in our 2012 or newer BMW will feel better.


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## ColomBull (Nov 27, 2009)

white75li said:


> So Bernie is suggesting artificial rain in the middle of a Grand Prix. In hopes of creating a more exciting race. I don't agree with this it's getting alittle ridicules F1 is turning into a video game push Y for boost then make it rain by pushing X and L at the same time and Bernie will make it rain. Just have the guys race and stop changing to rules every year so the cars can even up then we might see some real passing instead of these fake gimmicks.


It would be nice for the rules to stay consistent.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I want deafeningly loud, rain forest polluting, gas guzzling, V12 engines back.

And qualifying tires.

No KERS.

No moveable rear wings.

Bring back the wide rear wing.

Traction control.

Active suspension.

Michelin tires.

Larger double diffusors.

A second tire maker - Goodyear.

No stepped under tray.

Re-fueling.

Specialized racing gasoline - chilled.

Remove the spec ECU.

Let the engineers spend, spend, spend.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> There are some very good, close up pictures here of the various exh sys and the ultra low rear end of the Williams. Pics can be enlarged w/click.
> 
> http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/44998.html


Thanks. These are the pics I've been looking for.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

New game... Every time Vettel says "obviously" , take a drink. I just counted 12 in the interview. I'm hammered.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> New game... Every time Vettel says "obviously" , take a drink. I just counted 12 in the interview. I'm hammered.


Lol wish I would have thought of that it was a pretty exciting race though


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

Thank you, Captain Eyebrows, for ruining what could have been a decent result for McLaren. Knowing the history between these two, I wonder how much of it was an "accident", as opposed to a calculated ram that went awry.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

e46Christian said:


> Thank you, Captain Eyebrows, for ruining what could have been a decent result for McLaren. Knowing the history between these two, I wonder how much of it was an "accident", as opposed to a calculated ram that went awry.


All it was, was an aggressive passing attempt gone wrong; in other words, a racing incident. Ham was going to have to stop again due to extreme tire wear and was not going to be on the podium irregardless of their coming together. That was quite clear by how quickly Alonso was catching him; if you watch sector times, you would have seen he was losing over a second a lap to Alonso in the previous few laps.

Do the Renault starts remind anyone else of the 05 and 06 season when they were getting rocket starts? Don't know what they're doing but they seem to be best at getting off the line.

Alonso has clearly figured out how to get some race pace out of the F150. Now if he could only qualify better, and then hold his ground at the start, he might make a serious run at the WDC.

Overall, I'd say a good, exciting race. Except for the very front of the race, I thought there was lots of action with some good fights throughout the field.

I expect similar quali in china, then hopefully a good race with Reds first podium.

FORZA .....


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

e46Christian said:


> Thank you, Captain Eyebrows, for ruining what could have been a decent result for McLaren. Knowing the history between these two, I wonder how much of it was an "accident", as opposed to a calculated ram that went awry.


It was an accident, IMHO. If intended it was a very poor attempt. I would say you are reading a bit too much into it, but that is just my personal take. Both Ferraris had incidents which probably cost them a place or two. Both both Alonso and Massa proclaimed they were happy with their races. But that was not their bosses opinion, Mr Dom....

It was a great race.

I was glad to see Vettle walk away when he wanted to. I was thrilled by both the Renault starts and to see Heildfield finish 3rd. He has around 173 starts and apprx 8 second places. I wonder if Kubica could have done better? Probably faster but probably not caught Vettle as I think Vettle was cruising most of the race, except when his KERS was cutting out and in, in the last 1/3rd. I feel sorry for Kubica but still good for Heidfeld.

I was also glad to see Hamilton's performance did not live up to his frequent bravado talk. I gave up on Mclaren years ago, after years of promises from Ron. But Jenson is ok.

Hamilton and Alonso both got penalized as F1 is getting tougher. Only about 15 years too late.

I was never a Webber fan but the guy has had some bad luck while his mate walks away with 1st places. Maybe its payback for all the guys he blocked, in the past, when he was laps down. What an a** back then.

For many years my want of driver and team to win the championship never materialized so I gave up until RBR and Vettle came along. So after many losing teams I've hit a winner and I'm enjoying the hell out of it.

Great race.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Do the Renault starts remind anyone else of the 05 and 06 season when they were getting rocket starts? Don't know what they're doing but they seem to be best at getting off the line.


Yes I recall those starts, they were killer, and as you brought up, it looks like they are doing it again, to great advantage. And they have the speed to stay with Mclaren so they should be very dangerous to the rest of the field.

If they can qualify in the first two or three rows they could take the lead going into the first turn and then be hard to beat. Except for what maybe RBR can do when pushed. RBR themselves says they don't know how fast they are, where their limit is.

Just one week to wait.

I'm glad there was no rain so we could see the real performance of each, instead of just an crash derby. Wet weather racing is fine but when rivers are running across the track and cars are hydroplanning off the track, one after another, it is time to stop the race. Its no longer racing. Its a crap shoot. If you are into real racing, know the rules and most of the teams, and know some of the drivers, and some of how and what makes and f1 car, you will most probably want to see real (dry or wet) racing too.

If not, there is always figure 8 racing, and also figure 8 racing with 3 cars attached, for even more crashing excitement. Check for dates and times that they will be running at your local dirt track this summer. There are more dirt tracks around this country than there are cities, or so it seems, so you should be able to find the level of crash fun you crave near you, no matter where you live.

(The doctors at the hospital, that I've been staying at, say I should express myself more fully and more often and not hold anything back. They say that if I do that more often and follow the rules I should be able to get out of this institution and out on my own in 6 months or maybe in a year. Doc said either way I should be out in time to see the inaugaral Austin, Texas race in person. So I'm doing what I'm told. And will be writing about everything f1 like never before)


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

It was a very exciting race anyone know how many passes where made in comparison to last year.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> It was a very exciting race anyone know how many passes where made in comparison to last year.


I looked but can't help you with that.

But I can tell that the fastest lap of the race was run by Webber at 1:40. Yes Webber. :dunno:


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> I looked but can't help you with that.
> 
> But I can tell that the fastest lap of the race was run by Webber at 1:40. Yes Webber. :dunno:


Webber had fresh tires late in the race when he was on low fuel, hence Fastest lap.

Glad you're working towards a full recovery. Hopefully, counseling and pharmaceuticals will help you get over your redbull addiction. After all, a healthy mind is a red mind.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Don't know how many passes, but it was a lot. My favorite was alonso's move on button in the first stint. They fought cleanly through several turns before he finally got it. 

And yeah, I know, big surprise, I liked a Ferrari passing a mclaren.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Webber had fresh tires late in the race when he was on low fuel, hence Fastest lap.


Very true. Yet others had fresh tires and low fuel and had KERS. But they didn't have an RBR car. And he did finish 4th.

So I guess not so surprising when you look at the facts. Yet the way he was getting passed at the start maked it surprising. Take your pick.

Anyone else surprised that Webber had the fastest lap of the race? Honestly, before these posts?


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

This race had loads of on-track action. I partially attribute the wideness of the track.

What nimrod decided that the movable rear wings can only be used if the guy behind is <1sec behind and only on certain parts of the track and only after 2 laps and on and on? That is such a contrived rule. If the system is good; let the guys use it wherever and whenever they feel it can help them.

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

mrbelk said:


> What nimrod decided that the movable rear wings can only be used if the guy behind is <1sec behind and only on certain parts of the track and only after 2 laps and on and on? That is such a contrived rule. If the system is good; let the guys use it wherever and whenever they feel it can help them. -MrB


It's done a good job of eliminating 'parade' races, where a slower car can keep a slightly faster car behind it. That mostly forced pit stop passing only, provided you had a pit stop coming up. If the faster car ever managed to pass, by whatever method, it would pull away.

The <1 sec rule pretty much solved the parade problem, allowing truely faster cars to get around the slightly slower ones. If the trailing car can not get close enough to pass (<1 sec) then it wasn't fast enough in the first place.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

franka said:


> It's done a good job of eliminating 'parade' races, where a slower car can keep a slightly faster car behind it. That mostly forced pit stop passing only, provided you had a pit stop coming up. If the faster car ever managed to pass, by whatever method, it would pull away.
> 
> The <1 sec rule pretty much solved the parade problem, allowing truely faster cars to get around the slightly slower ones. If the trailing car can not get close enough to pass (<1 sec) then it wasn't fast enough in the first place.


I get all that, but why _only_ allow the wing to be movable on very limited, predetermined, sections of track? If it's a good development, then let the drivers use it whenever they think they can gain an advantage by using it. Now what we'll see are parades until someone is going faster, then he passes at turn 1, and the parade resumes until the next time around. All this really is is a way for the FIA to actually enforce blue flags.

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

You said you liked the race. "...had loads of on-track action". It was not a parade and you confirmed it. That's why not

Why not do away with all aero restrictions then? Why stop at just free use of the wing? 

Bottom line is I don't think that you do get it.


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## mrbelk (Dec 5, 2003)

franka said:


> You said you liked the race. "...had loads of on-track action". It was not a parade and you confirmed it. That's why not
> 
> Why not do away with all aero restrictions then? Why stop at just free use of the wing?
> 
> Bottom line is I don't think that you do get it.


If I recall, Sepang is one of the few tracks where the "parade-factor" hasn't been as much of an issue. I think the wideness of the track helps with that. Let's see what happens in Valencia or Hungary or any of the other tracks where passing has traditionally been next to impossible.

My only point is that if these movable rear wings were/are such a good idea, then why only let the drivers use them on the main straight and only when they're <1 sec behind the car in front and why only after 2 laps? Those parts of the rule seem completely arbitrary and contrived.

For the record, I would be perfectly fine with (and have mentioned it here in past threads) the rules being the teams have a certain bounding box within which to work; some minimum weight; a set amount of fuel with which to run the race; and a very limited number of safety-related crashworthiness standards and then let the engineers do their thing. It's clear that none of the ridiculous aero-rules changes or engine homologation rules or whatever have done anything to actually reduce the speeds attained, so let's all just quit trying and let F1 really be the "pinnacle of motorsport."

-MrB


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

mrbelk said:


> My only point is that if these movable rear wings were/are such a good idea, then why only let the drivers use them on the main straight and only when they're <1 sec behind the car in front and why only after 2 laps? Those parts of the rule seem completely arbitrary and contrived. -MrB


We've been down this road already. The problem here is simply that you don't get it.

Instead of reactively typing, stop and think why not on the first couple of laps. Hint, no parade has had time to form. The order is still sorting itself out. Think about it. You are on your own now.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Teams hail success of 2011 rule changes 

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, April 12th 2011, 09:35 GMT 


Formula 1's new look for 2011 - with the introduction of moveable rear wings, the return to KERS and the switch to Pirelli ***8211; has helped make the spectacle much better, claim leading figures from within the sport.

"The DRS was a cost-effective thing to put in place and on some layouts it will not work, like Australia, but when you have a straight long enough like Malaysia or China it will work and it is good."
_______________________________________

I cut out much of the article to just show the DRS comment. We all know that the use of DRS was not intended to provide great benefit on slow, twisting curcuits as Melborne.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The new US track in Austin, Texas, announced its name today...Circuit of Americas. First race is to still be in 2012.

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-austin-track-gets-a-name


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Damn..The Williams story is on the front page of CNN's web site. F1 is moving into public awareness it seems. I think this link is the correct one.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorsport/05/03/motorsport.f1.williams.coughlan/index.html?hpt=T2


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Williams seeks front wing solution.

Williams technical director Sam Michael says that the team have been focussing on the car's front wing in an attempt to improve the performance of the FW33.

Having looked quick in testing, Williams have endured a disastrous start to the season, with neither car finishing the opening two races and Pastor Maldonado being beaten on pace by a Lotus in China. Despite the troubles, Michael says the car is fundamentally quick, and that the front wing appears to be masking its full potential.

"The basis of the car should be good enough to fight for fourth place behind the three top teams," he told Auto Motor und Sport."We are taking a new version to Turkey and we will go further with this concept in Barcelona and Monte Carlo. We have discovered in the wind tunnel a new development direction for the front wing. The step in Turkey will already be quite big."

Michael said that Williams were suffering similar problems to Ferrari, in that the data from its wind tunnel was not correlating to the track. Nevertheless, he felt that an updated rear wing should also see the team become more competitive.

"At the factory we have seen a lot of progress in every area, but not all of it has been seen at the track. Mercedes has had up to 7kph more (top speed) than us. That's the other side of the coin, with our new [rear] wing we hope to get it just right."

Michael has previously said that a new exhaust similar to that used by Red Bull would be trialled in Barcelona following previously unsuccessful developments in the area, and he hoped that would allow Williams to challenge for points consistently.

"Then we should be able to bring the cars into the top ten," he said.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Di Resta not distracted by Mercedes link ..By Jonathan Noble and Pablo Elizalde Thursday, May 5th 2011, 11:43 GMT 

Paul di Resta says he is not letting speculation linking him to Mercedes GP distract him from his work at Force India.
-------------------------------------------------
Again this is just part of an article. 

There is no doubt that Schumi is history after his contract runs out. Even Schumi has come to realize it himself, that he is not the super driver that he thought he was. 

Well duh?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Sam Michael has resigned to let all know that he will be available. He will be a catch for a top team and a great loss to Williams.

I would not be surprised to see Williams do well this season. Maybe even starting at this next race.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*Turkey Qualifying*

Front row all RBR. Vettle goes out, does one blistering lap, pulls into the garage and gets out of the car ith several minutes still on the clock.

Can you spell DOMINATION?

And Nico is 5 spots ahead of Schu.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Another thrilling race also nice to see Ferrari mixing it up they made a big step. A ton of passing another great race.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

To whoever was saying that Hamilton was such a tough scrapper ... I say he looked like crap today.

He made lots of mistakes. Looked like he was panicked and over driving the car. 

Looked like an amateur, was all over the track, got pushed out of one or more 3 way battles.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

DRS at Monaco is a go.


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## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

franka said:


> Again this is just part of an article.
> 
> There is no doubt that Schumi is history after his contract runs out. Even Schumi has come to realize it himself, that he is not the super driver that he thought he was.
> 
> Well duh?


MSC reminds me of Michael Jordan, who came back after being retired for a few years. .... he was still good when he played for the Washington Wizards, but no where near the level he was at when he was playing for the Bulls.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

franka said:


> To whoever was saying that Hamilton was such a tough scrapper ... I say he looked like crap today.
> 
> He made lots of mistakes. Looked like he was panicked and over driving the car.
> 
> Looked like an amateur, was all over the track, got pushed out of one or more 3 way battles.


I agree Hamilton didn't look good today but neither did Button or for that matter McLaren as a team it seemed like the whole team made mistakes. Button had a horrible strategy, the team had horrible pitstop mistakes and from what Hamilton said he had a car setup problem not a good day for McLaren.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Funny how Button always gets screwed by his team...


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

I think buttons strategy was screwed by massa. In the first two stints, button and massa were racing each other and Macca kept pitting button to keep him in touch. After massa messed up, Macca stopped worrying about him and put button back on a 3 stopper. If massa had been able to keep it on the island, he and button might have been fighting over 4th at the finish. 

Schumi got flat out mugged by young drivers with much less pedigree. After the race he said he wasn't having any fun. I'm sure he'll finish the season but I bet he doesn't come back for the 3rd year. If Rosberg can manage to win a race, I think that would be the final nail...

Ham looked pretty ragged, but he seems to do that occasionally. I rate him as one of the best, but sometimes he just looks no better than average. (kind of how Schumi looks lately). 

Good to see the Reds picking up the pace. Alonso had a good shot at 2nd but lost out to webbers tires. They seem to have their flexible-wing working, now they just have to hack their ecu for some qualifying pace engine mapping.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Oh, and yeah, that was another great race. 80 pit stops, countless passes and battles for position, even a few 3 way drs battles. This year the races just keep getting better. 

Can't wait for Canada. Just one month away...


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Ham looked pretty ragged, but he seems to do that occasionally. I rate him as one of the best, but sometimes he just looks no better than average. .


If I were to say anything like that, or even near that, about Vettle I would get flamed. Vettle lost to ham in China only because of Vettles tires. Yet everyone, it seems, was ignoring that aspect and ranting about how great ham is and the rest of the BS about him head to head with Vettle.

Vettle has his head together and is kicking his team mate's butt too. Its not just a good car. It takes much more to run on the front than cruise control. Plus never putting a tire off in the whole race.

Great drivers, even good drivers, just don't have races as ragged as ham was. Even if the car is not the best. HE was terrible. Team too but that doesn't give ham justification for his crappy, all over the track, race.

He plain lost it. Head wise. The best drivers never do.

Regarding Vettle and his appearance of cruising. All the great drivers look like that. One of the masters, an idol of mine, Alain Prost was known for that. That's why he got his nickname of the Professor. He was smart and smart is ultra smooth.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

We all watched vettel make stupid mistakes last year. Taking out his own team mate in turkey and ramming button at spa are two good examples. Im starting to believe in vettels talent but it is easier with a good car. In 08, Massa almost won wdc, but he was front running the whole time. Massa can't seem to make ground when he's in traffic. Everyone has bad days, champions just have less and while he's got obvious talent, occasionally ham still seems a bit impetuous. (disclaimer, I dislike ham as much as most of you dislike Alonso). Still though, I rate ham very high. I think we need to see what vettel does when he no longer has the best car to see what kind of driver he really is. I bet he looks like ham, pretty damn good but with occasional bad days.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> We all watched vettel make stupid mistakes last year. Taking out his own team mate in turkey and ramming button at spa are two good examples. Im starting to believe in vettels talent but it is easier with a good car. In 08, Massa almost won wdc, but he was front running the whole time. Massa can't seem to make ground when he's in traffic. Everyone has bad days, champions just have less and while he's got obvious talent, occasionally ham still seems a bit impetuous. (disclaimer, I dislike ham as much as most of you dislike Alonso). Still though, I rate ham very high. I think we need to see what vettel does when he no longer has the best car to see what kind of driver he really is. I bet he looks like ham, pretty damn good but with occasional bad days.


We'll never agree. :thumbup:

Vettle is getting better and better. Ham is getting panicked and all over the track. Even the newbies had better better control of their emotions.

I watched the RBR accident in slow mo and it was clearly Webber's fault. It was typical Webber.

Webber has always driven that way until late last year. I'd bet money that he's been sat down and told he won't be driving like that, in this team, anymore.

Seb is clearly superior to Webber and Webber did a great job coming thru the pack last race. And w/o KERS. But he still can't deal with Seb.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*I can't resist posting this.*

Schumacher confused by Rosberg gap ...By Simon Strang and Jonathan Noble Sunday, May 8th 2011, 09:50 GMT

Michael Schumacher has confirmed that there were no technical problems with his Mercedes W02 as the seven-time world champion remains mystified by the large gap between himself and Nico Rosberg during qualifying for the Turkish Grand Prix.

Schumacher qualified eighth - more than a second slower than Rosberg who starts third - despite having previously matched Sebastian Vettel's pace in the final free practice session.

"There were no issues with car," Schumacher said in the team's media briefing later. "It seemed to have functioned fine.

"Being off by more than a second, for sure we had less fuel in the car in qualifying than we had this morning [in practice], I'm struggling to understand myself at the moment why it didn't go any quicker.

Duhh?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

delete


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Schumacher confused by Rosberg gap ...By Simon Strang and Jonathan Noble Sunday, May 8th 2011, 09:50 GMT
> 
> Michael Schumacher has confirmed that there were no technical problems with his Mercedes W02 as the seven-time world champion remains mystified by the large gap between himself and Nico Rosberg during qualifying for the Turkish Grand Prix.
> 
> ...


It's okay Michael. We all get old and slow at some point.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> It's okay Michael. We all get old and slow at some point.


Yeah...but he matched Vettle's pace in practice.It's in the article above.

So what happened?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Yeah...but he matched Vettle's pace in practice.It's in the article above.
> 
> So what happened?


Not sure what happened but how many times have we seen testing and practice pace not result in qualifying or race pace? Not saying it's all Schumi but his teammate has been beating him regularly this year.

And not to belabor a point but, as an athlete myself, when I got near 40 years old, the biggest difference I noticed was the time it took to recover from hard efforts. Maybe a full race weekend is just physically and mentally wearing him out. Happens to the best of us.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

David Coulthard reckons Michael Schumacher has reached "the moment" when he realises he's no longer enjoying F1 racing.

With rumours circulating that Mercedes GP are lining up Paul di Resta to replace Schumacher at the end of this season, the German finished a disappointing P12 in Sunday's Turkish GP.

Immediately after the grand prix the seven-time World Champ admitted that he's not having as much fun as he thought he would have when he opted to return to the sport.

"The big joy is not there right now," the 42-year-old told the BBC.

And, Coulthard reckons, it's when that joy is gone that it's time to call it quits.

"He's not performing at the same level of his team-mate, that's a fact," said Schumacher's former rival.

"The statistics show Nico (Rosberg) is getting more out of that car than Michael.

"I don't think we should write Michael off by any stretch of the imagination, there's a lot of talent there, but he must be asking himself questions.

"I think the key thing is he's not enjoying it, and to be perfectly open and honest with you there was an element of that for me at the beginning of 2008.

"I wasn't as competitive as I felt I should be, I wasn't enjoying the races as much as I used to, and then that's the moment.

"It slowly builds until you look in the mirror and realise that feeling you've been having for a few weeks or months is the internal message. You can't hold back the clock." 


the above from PlanetF1.com


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I agree with the last sentence above and here...

"It slowly builds until you look in the mirror and realise that feeling you've been having for a few weeks or months is the internal message. You can't hold back the clock." 

Still, still... MSC is not admitting to this. Just read his statements all this year and above. Look at his performance last year which was blamed on the car, and this year would be different. All BS

It's been clear to me as far back as when he was racing, and has been my point for all these many years hence, that he NEVER was the giant that the media made him out to be. The Benetton that started his myth, was the superior car of the season. That is well known.

A great driver yes but no giant. He had tremendous advantage in the Ferraris, exclusive tires to suit him alone, and the FIA that always looked away when he and/or Ferrari cheated and lied. 

Prost and Senna, just to name two, and there are others, that I hold out as notably better.

Now the excuse is his age. How convenient


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Sorry to drop this in, in the middle of a fun discussion but....

F1 is again on CNN's International and US web page. Way to go F1. :thumbup:


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> I agree with the last sentence above and here...
> 
> "It slowly builds until you look in the mirror and realise that feeling you've been having for a few weeks or months is the internal message. You can't hold back the clock."
> 
> ...


I would agree with most of this, however, I do believe he was one of the best ever. It's impossible to say who really is the greatest ever because most of the guys on the list raced in different era's. Schumi, in his day, was certainly the beneficiary of "The Perfect Storm". He was able to test endlessly, had tires built to suit him, had a compliant teammate, and one of the greatest teams ever assembled. It couldn't have gotten much better. Certainly, he had the skills to take advantage, but take away one or two of those elements and who knows what would have happened. And, as has been said by the media, the caliber of driver seems to be much higher now.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> I would agree with most of this, however, I do believe he was one of the best ever. It's impossible to say who really is the greatest ever because most of the guys on the list raced in different era's. Schumi, in his day, was certainly the beneficiary of "The Perfect Storm". He was able to test endlessly, had tires built to suit him, had a compliant teammate, and one of the greatest teams ever assembled. It couldn't have gotten much better. Certainly, he had the skills to take advantage, but take away one or two of those elements and who knows what would have happened. And, as has been said by the media, the caliber of driver seems to be much higher now.


Good, so we are mostly in agreement. Your "Perfect Storm" analogy is, well .. perfect. It hits my point exactly. Thank you.

I do have to admit enjoying the on track lack of respect that he has been getting. Even one of the Speed announcers worked up enough courage to mention that in the last race. I'm sure you caught it.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

I think the young guys respect him for his accomplishments. Some of them have even mentioned that he was the guy they wanted to be when they grew up. But once the lights go out, he's just another guy on the track that they want to get past. I would imagine that the young guys take special pride in passing Schumi. Or at least maybe they did, now it seems common place.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

In regards to Vettel, you can't really judge how good a driver is when the car is at leased a second faster then the rest of the field. In the last race especially, you can tell he wasn't even trying can't really make mistakes when you have a 10 second cushion within the first 7 laps. I think Vettel is a great driver his first win in the wet at Monza was awesome, just wish we can see him race and not just drive a car in cruise control till the checkered. we can only hope the rest of the teams catch up.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> In regards to Vettel, you can't really judge how good a driver is when the car is at leased a second faster then the rest of the field. In the last race especially, you can tell he wasn't even trying can't really make mistakes when you have a 10 second cushion within the first 7 laps. I think Vettel is a great driver his first win in the wet at Monza was awesome, just wish we can see him race and not just drive a car in cruise control till the checkered. we can only hope the rest of the teams catch up.


Not trying to be nasty, but I guess you didn't read or understand what I wrote regarding cruising. Please see my posts above if you don't know what I'm talking about.

Let me ask you...What about going out and doing just one flying, Q3 lap and coming in? What about that?

A single lap that was over 0.40 sec faster than his teammate, and over 0.5 sec faster than the next fastest team?

Was that cruising? If not then what was it?

These are valid questions. If you do not agree then please state why.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

franka said:


> Not trying to be nasty, but I guess you didn't read or understand what I wrote regarding cruising. Please see my posts above if you don't know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Let me ask you...What about going out and doing just one flying, Q3 lap and coming in? What about that?
> 
> ...


All I'm saying is the car is in a league of it's own, all Vettel has to do is beat his much less talented teammate. If you don't remember Webber also did one single flying lap and was also watching the rest of q3 on the same tv as Vettel. The RBR car proved how superior it really is at the Chinese GP, not many cars can land a podium from the back of the field the car is just that fast. So have we seen how good Vettel really is no I don't think so.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Not trying to be nasty, but I guess you didn't read or understand what I wrote regarding cruising. Please see my posts above if you don't know what I'm talking about.
> 
> Let me ask you...What about going out and doing just one flying, Q3 lap and coming in? What about that?
> 
> ...


I would say what we saw saturday was a guy who is faster than his teammate in a car which is currently the class of the field. Redbull decided to save tires rather than put in more laps that they clearly didn't need.

And BTW, how funny would it have been for Webber to let Vettel get out of the car, then head back out for another try? Too bad the team would never allow that kind of gamesmanship. I'm sure Webber was itching to go though.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

No matter how good the car is it doesn't drive itself around the circuit. The faster the car the better the driver has to be to put it where it needs to be, to run the times that the car is capable of running. 

And Vettle has done it w/o putting a wheel off. Not in the race and not in qualifying. It's not just the car my friends.

It strikes me that back when schumi was driving the best car, with the perfect tires, best team, etc that NO one was claiming it was the car etc. If you recall it was all about schumi then. How great the DRIVER was. 

Time will tell. We will see what this season brings. And I will go on record now, as I have already, and say Vettle is much better than many currently give him credit for. Mark my words. 

The car is great, sure, but its not all the car. That is where both of you are wrong. :bigpimp:


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

No one ever said Vettel is a bad driver all I'm trying to say is he is not driving to his full potential just like shumi, and just like shumi he's got 1 guy to beat his team mate that's all.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> No one ever said Vettel is a bad driver all I'm trying to say is he is not driving to his full potential just like shumi, and just like shumi he's got 1 guy to beat his team mate that's all.


Yes but schu's team mate was there to support schu. Not so in RBR, where last year Webber led most of the season.

Latest word is that now that Webber's car and KERS are working for him he plans to mount a campaign to take the championship. And RBR is in full support. Not at all like like schu where he had to have it in his contract that his team mate would only support him.

That, purposely driving into competitors, purposely blocking the track, purposely trying to run competitors, even his team mate, into the wall, plus many other less than fair and desperate moves, including lying, are clear examples of what a chicken, what a low life, how fearful he must be inside. All these *facts* are published and available.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Mark Webber has said he needs to be "inch-perfect" in qualifying if he wants to beat Sebastian Vettel in the future.

Having been outqualified by Vettel in every race so far this season - the reigning world champion has been on pole at every grand prix - Webber has also yet to finish ahead of him and already finds himself 38 points adrift in the championship standings. After struggling in the first two races of the season, Webber has bounced back with consecutive podiums and is hoping to continue his run.

"I've now finished fifth, fourth, third and second in the four races of the year, so the trend is going in the right direction," Webber wrote in his Telegraph column. "We're off to Barcelona next, which is a track I like a lot. I won there last year and finished third the year before, and we had two good test sessions there over the winter. I just need to keep working."

Webber did admit that in order to get the better of his team-mate in the future he was going to have a faultless weekend.

*"He's at the top of his game at the moment *and it's up to me to close the gap. To beat Seb in Spain, I'll have to do a better job than I did in Turkey. I'll need to be inch-perfect in qualifying and then have a cleaner first stint in the race than I did in Turkey because that will throw open a few more options in terms of strategy."


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Vettel would have won with three stops - says Pirelli May 9, 2011

Sebastian Vettel's dominance at the Turkish Grand Prix was underlined after tyre supplier Pirelli revealed that he could have gone the distance on a three-stop strategy and still won the race.

Vettel looked peerless during Sunday's race, winning by a comfortable 8.8 second margin over team-mate Mark Webber. Tyre degradation was high at the punishing Istanbul Park circuit, forcing most front-runners to make four tyre changes over the course of the race. Vettel was the last of the top 10 drivers to make his final pit stop, but Pirelli said it was only as a precaution and his penultimate set of tyres were in good enough shape to last the distance.

"We actually thought that Vettel could have won the race with three stops, but the comparatively short pit lane layout here in Istanbul meant that the performance advantage of an extra stop outweighed the 20 seconds or so spent in the pit lane," motorsport director Paul Hembery said. "With the pace he had, Vettel could afford an extra stop, and that was clearly the decision taken by plenty of other teams as well."

Vettel confirmed the stop was simply to cover off all eventualities.

"In the end I think I could have afforded to stay out on my first set of prime [tyres] but then you have to be in a position for whatever comes," he said. "I thought at that time I could have easily made it to the chequered flag which gives us the pit stop of around 15 or 20 seconds, but then again if something happens - there is an accident elsewhere and a safety car comes out - then obviously you are on a used tyre. So I think it was the right thing to come in another time even though it was just a very short fourth stint after the third stop."

The news will add to the concerns of Vettel's rivals, *who were not only outpaced by the reigning world champion but outdriven on all fronts.*


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*BIG, BIG Changes May Be Coming*

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91349


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

*For Ferrari Fans*

When asked in an interview with CNN whether Massa's future with Ferrari was secure, di Montezemolo said: "Yes. Yes. He has a contract with us for this year [and] for next year. So absolutely yes, no question about it."

Di Montezemolo also said that he hoped Fernando Alonso would remain part of Ferrari for many years yet.

"Alonso is very, very strong," he said. "He is one of the best drivers I have seen in my career, very strong in the mind, very pushing with the team, but in a constructive way, but also very close to the team. So I want to have a long time Alonso."


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Regarding the Autosport article, I know there's a lot of money on the line, and the teams want to be sure to get all that they feel they deserve, but I wonder how much Montezemolo would be talking about this if they weren't changing the engine formula soon and if they were allowed to develop engines again instead of them being stagnant? 

And if Ferrari does pull out of F1, as he's threatened occasionally, would we then see a Ferrari factory sports car team? Ferrari at LeMans again would be great.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91462

Plus there are BIG changes coming to blown diffusers in Spain.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Vettle and Webber have been saying it all season long. They are just focused on what they are doing and not anyone else. And it shows.

Can't say that about McLaren. But Mercedes has their head down too, minding their own business and getting on with it, showing improvement thru the season.

With the 'new' medium tires there should be less pit stops this race though there will be some strategic switching to the softs. Should be an exciting race on a nice track just feet from the Mediterranean.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

I sure hope the new off throttle blown exhaust ban changes up the order. Watching vettel sail off into the distance is getting monotonous. He's now got a full three race lead. If someone doesn't stop him, this season will be all but over by the summer break. 


Signals sent from The Mother Ship


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> If someone doesn't stop him, this season will be all but over by the summer break.


This has all happened before. Nothing new about an individual running away with the championship. Its even been worse.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> This has all happened before. Nothing new about an individual running away with the championship. Its even been worse.


Yup. And those seasons got monotonous too. Even when it was the Reds doing all the winning.

Come on other teams... Step it up...

Signals sent from The Mother Ship


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Its RBR and Ferrari now. McLaren has fallen back and is still falling. You will soon hear promises from McLaren that they will do much better next season. I've heard it from them for years, when Dennis was running it, and when I was a fan. Then I got smart and dumped them.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Vettel is even bored out there, in his post race interview he was making excuses about a race between him and the car lol I think if he had an iPhone he'd be texting during that race.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

And the convo goes 

Vettel: hey what's up I'm bored

Friend: aren't you racing? 

V: yea I'm in the lead and set fastest lap any new apps out? I beat angry birds during the safety car in Montreal. 

F: idk of any good games are you really racing? 

V: yea I think I'm going to slow down for a bit and have Alonso think he has a chance of catching up. Have you downloaded angry birds seasons is it worth the 99¢ I don't want to get it then never play. 

F: no I haven't but a friend of mine says it's pretty good. 

V: ok well I'm about to pass the checkered flag I'll text you during silverstone. 

F: ok ttyl


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> And the convo goes
> 
> Vettel: hey what's up I'm bored
> 
> ...


That's pretty good but, don't you think he'd be watching the F1 Live timing app? The conversation would go...

Ooh, look, Trulli is putting in some quick sector times, I wonder if he'll be able to catch his team mate and then try to put a move on him?


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

So with the rules changing everyone is throwing around deferent times redbull will lose per lap. Newey says they will be hurt so I'm hoping it will even the teams outeven just closer. Silverstone should be exciting and we will see if the rest of the season will be even more exciting.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

I expect all the top teams will lose some speed but I will be surprised if it makes MUCH difference in the top 3 or 4. Certainly some teams will loose less than others and it may be enough to change a place. But other than that I expect the net affect will just be a slower lap for all the top teams so relatively not much change in order. Other upgrades that the teams bring may have a greater affect than the relative loss of blown diffusers across the field.

I would expect a larger difference among the mid field and lower teams where some are not using or benefiting from blown diffusers. The teams that have not been benefiting from the diffusers should show better. Williams is one that might move up.

RBR's strength is high speed aero performance/handling which is exactly what Silverstone is known for so I would expect them staying in front.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

While the race will be on Fox on Sunday, Friday practice and Sat qualifying will be on SPEED.

fyi


----------



## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Thanks franka forgot about fox


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

What a screwed up mess with blown diffuser rules and changes. Right during practice this morning they were still changing the rules.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92941

I predict that at the end of the current Concord agreement the teams will break away and take control of the sport. As they should.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> What a screwed up mess with blown diffuser rules and changes. Right during practice this morning they were still changing the rules.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92941
> 
> I predict that at the end of the current Concord agreement the teams will break away and take control of the sport. As they should.


...as they should have done years ago.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7029844/FIA-prepared-for-another-U-turn

And now, for something completely different... the FIA backtracking on their decision.

It certainly looks like Ferrari have gained the most, or lost the least depending on your point of view. Alonso just over a tenth from pole is certainly closing the gap, and based on their better race than quali pace, it could be a good race at the front.

The funny part about the above article is how they state they could go back to pre-Silverstone regulations, "if all the teams agree". Based on todays result, by show of hands, how many people think Ferrari and Williams, who also seem to have gained something, will agree to going back to previous spec exhaust?

And, oh, yeah, major props to DiResta and Maldonado. I do have to say, as the year goes by, I am getting more and more impressed by the rookie class.


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## ColomBull (Nov 27, 2009)

Can anybody reference a site that I could stream the race live? I'm in California. Thanks.


----------



## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

I have to say that this season has been more interesting than most. Between the tires, the accidents, the botched pit stops....and now team orders.

I'd be honey badger mad if I was Weber right now.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Ajax said:


> I have to say that this season has been more interesting than most. Between the tires, the accidents, the botched pit stops....and now team orders.
> 
> I'd be honey badger mad if I was Weber right now.


Why?


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Why?


Webber was told several times on the last few laps not to pass Vettel. Guess Seb fans can no longer decry Ferrari for team orders.

Anyway, cue the anthem... Fratelli D'Italia...

Ferrari won that one because today , they were the best team. Good strategy, no pitlane mistakes, no driver error and in the last stint, the fastest car. We all know I'm biased, but still, it's nice to see someone take the fight to redbull. Vettel can probably cruise from this point, collect podiums and still close out wdc. But at least it might be more of a fight now.

Gotta wonder what happened to Macca today? Releasing a car without a wheelnut and not enough fuel to race until the end? And would Button have run into fuel issues if he got that far? They looked like a newbie, backmarker team today, not the powerhouse they should be.

Good race for Perez, bummer for DiResta. If his team hadn't messed up, a top ten was in his grasp.

Signals sent from The Mother Ship


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

ColomBull said:


> Can anybody reference a site that I could stream the race live? I'm in California. Thanks.


I don't know where you can get video but formula1.com has live timing and scoring. Same thing teams and tv announcers look at. You get car position, sector times, who's in the pitlane etc. I use their app during live race broadcasts on speed tv to watch sector and lap times. Adds a bitmore excitement.

Signals sent from The Mother Ship


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Here is the full story on Webber and team orders. This could jeopardize his next year with the team. I feel it was a dumb ... no, stupid move to try to pass Vettle against team orders.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93028

Schumi crashing and getting penalized. Says he's staying his full 3 yr. At least they can use him to help develop the car.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Here is the full story on Webber and team orders. This could jeopardize his next year with the team. I feel it was a dumb ... no, stupid move to try to pass Vettle against team orders.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93028
> 
> Schumi crashing and getting penalized. Says he's staying his full 3 yr. At least they can use him to help develop the car.


Yeah, I think Webbo's going to find himself back at Williams next year. RBR needs a submissive team mate for Vettel. Hey, maybe Massa...

Signals sent from The Mother Ship


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Yeah, I think Webbo's going to find himself back at Williams next year. RBR needs a submissive team mate for Vettel. Hey, maybe Massa...
> Signals sent from The Mother Ship


Submissive mate not required. If Webber was in front then the team would have delivered the same message to Vettle.

Its about the team and not the individual.

I've said it here before that Webber has been an ass in the past, blocking cars when he's a lap or two down. His thinking is just bone headed. He would risk the team for his ego. He just did. Stupid covers it.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Another entertaining race :thumbup:

How things have changed in F1... penalty for Schumi was too harsh! :tsk:


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Renault to change its blown exhaust.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93040

Also the teams and the FIA agreed to drop to the restrictions on blown diffusers this year after the fiasco at Silverstone. To go back to before the restrictions. But they will keep in place that the off throttle system mapping can not be changed between qualifying and the race.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Watching Ferrari win this weekend was a bit better sweet I enjoyed the red car out front, but is it really faster or where the other cars just that much slower. Ferrari brought a lot of updates to Silverstone and it's always rumored that the off throttle blown diffuser on the Ferrari isn't that effective so they didn't lose as much time as the others(red bull). So do you guys think it was just a fluke do to the rule jumble or has Ferrari actually figured it out and we can see Vettel under some pressure.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> Watching Ferrari win this weekend was a bit better sweet I enjoyed the red car out front, but is it really faster or where the other cars just that much slower. Ferrari brought a lot of updates to Silverstone and it's always rumored that the off throttle blown diffuser on the Ferrari isn't that effective so they didn't lose as much time as the others(red bull). So do you guys think it was just a fluke do to the rule jumble or has Ferrari actually figured it out and we can see Vettel under some pressure.


Good question. I think Ferrari have made improvements but that their off throttle blown diffuser was not as good as RBRs so both things together helped them show better. I think RBR will be back in front in Germany. Assuming no mistakes or other delays.

Due to RBR's rear jack break and another small error we didn't get to see what would have happened had Seb beat Alonso out of the pits. Would Alonso have been able to catch and pass Seb? We'll never know. The Ferrari's pace was quick.

McLaren really fell off the cliff. McLaren is following the same general pattern of threatening to win and to do better next race, next year, next etc but it often didn't/doesn't happen. That is what drove me away from them years ago.


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## ColomBull (Nov 27, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> I don't know where you can get video but formula1.com has live timing and scoring. Same thing teams and tv announcers look at. You get car position, sector times, who's in the pitlane etc. I use their app during live race broadcasts on speed tv to watch sector and lap times. Adds a bitmore excitement.
> 
> Signals sent from The Mother Ship


Thanks.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> Watching Ferrari win this weekend was a bit better sweet I enjoyed the red car out front, *but is it really faster or where the other cars just that much [/B]slower. Ferrari brought a lot of updates to Silverstone and it's always rumored that the off throttle blown diffuser on the Ferrari isn't that effective so they didn't lose as much time as the others(red bull). So do you guys think it was just a fluke do to the rule jumble or has Ferrari actually figured it out and we can see Vettel under some pressure.*


*

What's the difference? I see the point you're trying to make but if one car is faster, or another is slower, the result will be the same.

Ferrari probably lost the least of the front runners do to the diffuser nonsense. However, as it was pointed out, with it's high speed, flowing turns, Silverstone gave the least advantage to the off throttle blown diffuser cars than any other track this year. So I would say, some teams lost a bit, but Ferrari also gained from their development program.

Also, in the final stint, Alonso was setting fastest laps one after another. The car was clearly the quickest on the track at the time. Yes, Vettel spent time stuck behind Hamilton, but he should have been able to pass him quicker, just like Alonso did once the track had dried, and even when he was past, there was nothing he could do to close the gap.

As I said before, Ferrari won that one because, on that day, they had the best team, but that includes performance of the car.

The next few races should be interesting. We've got Germany and Hungary back to back, then the summer break. I don't expect Redbull to just roll over, I'm sure they'll rebound, but hopefully, the Reds can keep them honest and sneak a few more wins off them before the end of the year. Vettel just has to keep getting solid results, though, and the championships will be a done deal. But still...

Go Reds!!!*


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> What's the difference? I see the point you're trying to make but if one car is faster, or another is slower, the result will be the same.
> 
> Ferrari probably lost the least of the front runners do to the diffuser nonsense. However, as it was pointed out, with it's high speed, flowing turns, Silverstone gave the least advantage to the off throttle blown diffuser cars than any other track this year. So I would say, some teams lost a bit, but Ferrari also gained from their development program.
> 
> ...


Ferrari had a great race loved watching Alonso set those fast laps even Horner said if the pit stop was perfect it wouldn't have changed the result Ferrari was just so fast in race trim. I just hope they keep it up.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> Ferrari had a great race loved watching Alonso set those fast laps even Horner said if the pit stop was perfect it wouldn't have changed the result Ferrari was just so fast in race trim. I just hope they keep it up.


+10000000000000...

Signals sent from The Mother Ship


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Alonso proved again that he is the best driver in the field, now Scuderia must deliver.
They couldn't cope with hard compound all year, I doubt that issue's been resolved...


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

More talk from McLaren.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93192


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

franka said:


> More talk from McLaren.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93192


Sounds like the same story to me hope they get to were they want but I don't think Ferrari and redbull are going to make it easy.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Another great race this was for me, the most excitingof the year, 3 cars battling for the win very cool. Hami, Alonso and Webber had a fantastic race. Vettel once again proved that he can't pass, last race it was Hami this race it's Massa don't really know what's going on with him. Really hope the rest of the season gives us as much excitement as we got this race.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> Another great race this was for me, the most excitingof the year, 3 cars battling for the win very cool. Hami, Alonso and Webber had a fantastic race. Vettel once again proved that he can't pass, last race it was Hami this race it's Massa don't really know what's going on with him. Really hope the rest of the season gives us as much excitement as we got this race.


I agree great race, best of the year. No one could or did predict this, especially McLaren. But coming back down to reality McLaren is still very capable of shooting itself in the foot next round and what happened to Button's car all weekend?

As for Vettle, its been speculated that he had a bit of more downforce in the case it could ran. This strategy could assure Seb a win in the rain and with no rain he would still finish well into the points. The team split strategies and it gave Webber a mental boost and helped assure one car a good chance of winning. Which is the name of the game now. Just keep adding points each race and stay safe, ie no risky moves on Seb's part.

On the other hand Ferrari and Mclaren are so far down they can do anything risky in an attempt to come back. But not Seb. Good team job for RBR.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

white75li said:


> Another great race this was for me, the most excitingof the year, 3 cars battling for the win very cool. Hami, Alonso and Webber had a fantastic race. Vettel once again proved that he can't pass, last race it was Hami this race it's Massa don't really know what's going on with him. Really hope the rest of the season gives us as much excitement as we got this race.


Re Massa, he never was a solid #1 on the team and rarely beat his teammate in all his years with Ferrari. Now he is much older, w/slowing reflects, and also had that terrific accident, which is highly probable that it too took off a bit of an edge.

Still a great race. And in my opinion Seb is doing the right things to grab another title, taking less risk while still taking good points each race. Lacking something taking him out of the races, like a bad accident with injuries, he will again be champ.

Strategy is much more than winning each race. And teams consider the team trophy as the greater of the 2 championship trophies.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

To my point.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93368


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> To my point.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93368


Didn't see any kind words for Hami or McLaren in your posts. Hard to do, eh?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> Didn't see any kind words for Hami or McLaren in your posts. Hard to do, eh?


That's your job.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> Disagree!!! Cause is too often subjective; thus a black flag is too severe.


Here's my logic, which isn't subjective because the officials already agreed who's at fault.

If a driver crashes into the rear, side, forces off, whatever of another and causes him to crash out, basically causes a DNF for the other guy, and then the crasher gets a drive thru penalty, it has already been determined by the officials that he caused the accident. So its not a question of if he caused it or not. He got the penalty.

My point is the causee, who all agree caused the other driver to crash out, should be black flagged out because that is what he was responsible for doing to the other driver.

That's my point about equality, parity. There is no question of fault. That has already been determined. Its a matter of the penalty matching the violation.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

franka said:


> Massa beat Alonso in qualifying and all the cars were on the same tires. So what happened there? The Ferraris and McLarens are getting faster but still Seb is on the pole, again.
> 
> And Massa is on the dirty side and is worried about that per the link below. He also thinks it could be a 4 stop race but Pirelli is saying 3 and they are almost always right.
> 
> ...


Alonso did his last Q3 run as a first of heavy hitters and the track was still improving, he lost out to Massa by 0.015s but was quicker in all Practice sessions and Q1 and Q2.
I read that he was probably quickest of all in long runs with heavy fuel load.

Actually Ferrari is easier on tires than RB or McLaren, that's one of the reasons Massa struggles so much with hard compounds.

Vettel's qualifying lap was phenomenal but he is slower than both Hamilton and Alonso in long runs so this one is up for grabs. The start will be the key, he needs to stay ahead of silver cars, this track will continue improving throughout the race so quick reaction to conditions may decide the race.

Hamilton has the car to beat and extra set of new supersofts so he will be my favorite to win the race. Once again start will be the key.

Alonso is too far down the grid but I never count this man out, he will be on podium but needs a killer start to fight for the win.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Woohoo!! That was a great race. Throw in some changing conditions and we don't need drs to make it good. I think Button was the only front runner who didn't make a mistake and was justly rewarded. 

Nice fight back from Massa after his off. I think now, aero development will consist of a blindfolded mechanic swinging a baseball bat. 

Pretty strange what happened to Alonso on his last set of options. He was fast for about 3 laps, but they went off so fast that he was losing about 2 secs. per lap to guys on primes. Strange... Good to see the reds get it right though. Not pitting for inters was smart. 

Once again, Button is the master of a changing track. Somehow, he always gets it right in these conditions. 

Now, what to do for three weeks? MotoGP sucks this year...


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> Woohoo!! That was a great race. Throw in some changing conditions and we don't need drs to make it good. I think Button was the only front runner who didn't make a mistake and was justly rewarded.
> 
> Nice fight back from Massa after his off. I think now, aero development will consist of a blindfolded mechanic swinging a baseball bat.
> 
> ...


Completely agree another exciting race wish the season started now would be a much more exciting championship. Alonso scored the most Piont in the last five races but still hasn't put a dent in Vettels lead. Hope they keep pressure on him the next half of the season.

As for Alonso was his strategy really the right call? If he would have opted for a set of softs instead of the super softs think he'd be on the top step of the podium instead of the last.

None the less a great race, all three teams kept it very exciting hope the next half of the season is going to be just as or more exciting. Yes motogp has been boring Ducati has to get it together.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

There was so much action I couldn't walk away w/o missing something.

Seems everyone was off at some point. But in the top 3 teams only Button and Vettle didn't spin. Or did Webber make it into that group too? :dunno:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

McLarens are taking over in speed.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93590


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

More on Simon and Pure.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93605


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

FIA strikes again.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93602


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Trulli is right. I didn't see the incident, but if Perez did indeed jump the chicane to gain position, he needs to give the position back. If Trulli retired before he could give the position back, then the precedent they set last year is the offending driver gets a drive through penalty. We absolutly need some consistency from the stewards.

Still not sure I'm believing the Simon thing is actually that big a deal.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Still not sure I'm believing the Simon thing is actually that big a deal.


But I do. If I had given him company advance engine plans I would be concerned. We all have our opinions.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93631

Force India is becoming a major force.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93631
> 
> Force India is becoming a major force.


At the rate things are going, I wouldn't be very surprised to see Force Indai and Sauber catching and passing Renault by the end of the year. I like when teams get faster, better for competition.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93657

Ferrari to shift its focus in Sept to the 2012 car.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93668

Alonso rated best by Ferrari. I have to admit that I like him and he is probably one of the best. Certainly better than Schumi ever was. For the last two seasons Schumi has been proving that he was never as good as he was made out to be.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93669


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93680

Pirelli to stop using hard tyre. This will be good for some teams.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93668
> 
> Alonso rated best by Ferrari. I have to admit that I like him and he is probably one of the best. Certainly better than Schumi ever was. For the last two seasons Schumi has been proving that he was never as good as he was made out to be.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93669


I wouldn't expect them to say anything else. He's quite clearly better than his team mate and they can't say something like "He's pretty good but the guy we used to have was better."



franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93680
> 
> Pirelli to stop using hard tyre. This will be good for some teams.


Yaay!!! Go Reds!!!


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Now Mexico wants an F1 race. I say too late. That's why the Circuit of the America's is being built. Plus there is no room in the F1 schedule. Plus the violence factor in Mexico would surely be brought to the race by the drug cartels.

What are they thinking? They must be on their own drugs.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93694


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This article about Ferrari and Alonso is from the CNN web page. F1 is finally getting recognized in the USA, probably due to the new track being built in Austin.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/m...sport.f1.alonso.ferrari/index.html?hpt=hp_mid


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

And finally Schumi is considering quitting. Can't happen fast enough.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> And finally Schumi is considering quitting. Can't happen fast enough.


I saw an article about that. He's finally admitting that his heart just isn't in it. Hulkenberg at merc in 2012?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> I saw an article about that. He's finally admitting that his heart just isn't in it. Hulkenberg at merc in 2012?


I didn't read anything about his heart. Rosberg has continued to dominated him despite all the next year, next time, next car, etc excuses that have been proferred.

The truth can no longer be ignored. Plus he will be leaving w/ Mercede's blessing.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716

Qualifying tires are a bad idea since they will add to costs and require a slightly different set-up than will be run in the race. Qualifying tires worked when there was no park-ferme like there is now.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> I didn't read anything about his heart. Rosberg has continued to dominated him despite all the next year, next time, next car, etc excuses that have been proferred.
> 
> The truth can no longer be ignored. Plus he will be leaving w/ Mercede's blessing.


http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7092879/Lauda-Schumi-s-Days-Are-Numbered

I saw a story on PlanetF1.com earlier this week that was quoting the Italian article in which he said these things about how he could be the problem and he just wasn't putting the energy into driving the team. That story has been taken down and Schumi's publicity woman is now denying the quotes. But my takeaway from that article was that he sounded like his heart just wasn't in it any more.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93716
> 
> Qualifying tires are a bad idea since they will add to costs and require a slightly different set-up than will be run in the race. Qualifying tires worked when there was no park-ferme like there is now.


Agreed. I don't see any need for qualifying tires if all the cars will be useing the same ones anyway. Without the tire wars, it just seems like useless expense.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7092879/Lauda-Schumi-s-Days-Are-Numbered
> 
> I saw a story on PlanetF1.com earlier this week that was quoting the Italian article in which he said these things about how he could be the problem and he just wasn't putting the energy into driving the team. That story has been taken down and Schumi's publicity woman is now denying the quotes. But my takeaway from that article was that he sounded like his heart just wasn't in it any more.


I can see how being regularly beat by his team mate and his recent spate of crashing into others could take away the fun after 1.5 seasons of the same. Its obvious to all, including him, that he is not going to get any better.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Schumi says he will still be racing for Mercedes in 2012, staying until the end of his contract. :dunno:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93780


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Schumi says he will still be racing for Mercedes in 2012, staying until the end of his contract. :dunno:
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93780


Another year spent watering down his stats...

:tsk:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Mercedes comments.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93786


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/editorial/7112882/PlanetF1-s-Circuit-of-Ten

Just for fun...


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/14624084.stm

Bruno Senna replacing Hiedfeld at Renault? Hmmm... not that Quick Nick was doing anything great this year, but it looks like Renault is giving up on the second half of the year and is now just trying to fill a budget gap. Or maybe they think this move will help boost Petrov's confidence for next year. If Kubica doesn't come back, Petrov will have to step up, and having a soft teammate will be good for his ego.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

My power went out yesterday at about 7am. Had to "watch" the entire race via the live timing app on my phone. Pretty interesting experience. Was also texting a friend to confirm tire choices etc. 
Another good race though. Besides both championships looking like a done deal, this could be a vintage season. Alonso had a very good drive, and Buttons charge from mid field was spectacular, if at least aided in the end by ferrari's total lack of pace on primes. I thought they had fixed that problem. 
And Ham made another rash move that took him out. SSDD...

So I was wondering, did anyone happen to copy the race to disc? I would love to see it when the power comes back on. Right now they're indicating it could be several days. Please pm me if you can help with "disaster relief".


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> My power went out yesterday at about 7am. Had to "watch" the entire race via the live timing app on my phone. Pretty interesting experience. Was also texting a friend to confirm tire choices etc.
> Another good race though. Besides both championships looking like a done deal, this could be a vintage season. Alonso had a very good drive, and Buttons charge from mid field was spectacular, if at least aided in the end by ferrari's total lack of pace on primes. I thought they had fixed that problem.
> And Ham made another rash move that took him out. SSDD...
> 
> So I was wondering, did anyone happen to copy the race to disc? I would love to see it when the power comes back on. Right now they're indicating it could be several days. Please pm me if you can help with "disaster relief".


Have you checked if SpeedTV has a re-run later in a week?

BTW, you missed out on a great drive from Schumi ...


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Have you checked if SpeedTV has a re-run later in a week?
> 
> BTW, you missed out on a great drive from Schumi ...


Not to belittle Schumacher, but with DRS and a near top of the grid car, it shouldn't be that hard to move up through the bottom feeders, right?

Weber did it. Button did it.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

hockeynut said:


> Not to belittle Schumacher, but with DRS and a near top of the grid car, it shouldn't be that hard to move up through the bottom feeders, right?
> 
> Weber did it. Button did it.


Not trying to argue but he came in ahead of Massa and Rosberg and Mercedes is a top midfield car at best. I think it was vintage Schumi, good strategy, motivated and focused.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> Not trying to argue but he came in ahead of Massa and Rosberg and Mercedes is a top midfield car at best. I think it was vintage Schumi, good strategy, motivated and focused.


+1...his game was on this weekend.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

F1Crazy said:


> Have you checked if SpeedTV has a re-run later in a week?
> 
> BTW, you missed out on a great drive from Schumi ...


I think they replay it on tuesday. I'll have to check. Still not sure about the power situation but I'm hopeful. There were guys up on the hill working on stuff...



hockeynut said:


> Not to belittle Schumacher, but with DRS and a near top of the grid car, it shouldn't be that hard to move up through the bottom feeders, right?
> 
> Weber did it. Button did it.


Weber and Button did it in cars better than anyone elses. Schumi's car wasn't that superior, but he had a good strategy, starting on the primes for a long stint, and showed flashes of his old skill. I still think he should have stayed retired, but still, the man can drive better than probably 3/4 of the field.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=ECrMe_11YwY

Speaking of Schumi... this is an awesome video. Better watch it befor FOM has it blocked. BTW, how come he didn't have to give the position back after clearly going off track to hold his pass on DiResta?

And if I counted right, he got 9 cars before the end of the Kemmel straight.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Schumi swerves a couple times in a sigle blocking maneuver in the Monza GP and the official response is that they never saw it, and also that no one reported it to the officials, so they say they can not act on it. So Schumi he gets away with it. 

Who's job is it to monitor these issues if not the officials? I saw it immediately.

I though this was a new era of enforcing the rules.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Schumi swerves a couple times in a sigle blocking maneuver in the Monza GP and the official response is that they never saw it, and also that no one reported it to the officials, so they say they can not act on it. So Schumi he gets away with it.
> 
> Who's job is it to monitor these issues if not the officials? I saw it immediately.
> 
> I though this was a new era of enforcing the rules.


Yes, pretty disgusting. I suppose there's an unwritten "grandfather clause for Schumi at Monza. He could always get away with anything in a red car there. Unfortunately, it cost Hami a podium finish. Given back the time he lost in following Schumi, he easily would have passed Alonso, at least.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Yes, pretty disgusting. I suppose there's an unwritten "grandfather clause for Schumi at Monza. He could always get away with anything in a red car there. Unfortunately, it cost Hami a podium finish. Given back the time he lost in following Schumi, he easily would have passed Alonso, at least.


I always did like Schumi...:angel:


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