# Which snow tires should I get?



## SizzlerMA (Sep 23, 2003)

Hey guys,

Does anyone have any advice as to which snow tires to get? I primarily use the car on plowed streets in Boston, but I do go skiing 8-10 times per year.

Also, I'm thinking of moving to Denver for some serious ski lifestyle . . .

My ride:

2004 330i
ZPP
ZSP
ZCW

I assume all these tires would be roughly 205/55/R16, probably Q or H speed-rated.

Thanks!


----------



## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

*Do you have the sport pkg?*



SizzlerMA said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Does anyone have any advice as to which snow tires to get? I primarily use the car on plowed streets in Boston, but I do go skiing 8-10 times per year.
> 
> ...


If not, you could just get 205/50-17.. The Dunlops are a good deal in that price range. If you want V-rated tires, get the Goodyear Eagle Ultra-Grip GW-3. I have no opinion if you go with 16". I couldn't bear to take the 17" wheels off my car for 3 months.


----------



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I love my Dunlop M2s, but I think they're biased towards dry road handling at the expense of some snow grip. You might want to consider something more serious like the Blizzak LM-22, especially if you're serious about moving to Denver.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

PhilH said:


> I love my Dunlop M2s, but I think they're biased towards dry road handling at the expense of some snow grip. You might want to consider something more serious like the Blizzak LM-22, especially if you're serious about moving to Denver.


I agree that a more agressive tire might benefit, especially with the ski trips. Best to prepare for your worst conditions in my opinion. I'd suggest the WS-50 for max snow capability, just be aware you'll give up some dry road handling versus a high performance snow tire.

You may be extremely limited in your options this late in the season though.

You can check current pricing and availability at :

Winter http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=/winter/index.jsp


----------



## mowgli (Oct 22, 2003)

*snow1*

I llive in Long Island in a very hilly area. My vote is definitly the WS-50's...so what you give up a bit of handeling...you buy snows to get around safely in horrible conditions and in the weather we are having this year I am glad I have these. Prior to this car I had a Audi S-4 and I believe that with this tires, my BMW is at least as good as the all wheel Audi!


----------



## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

mowgli said:


> I llive in Long Island in a very hilly area. My vote is definitly the WS-50's...so what you give up a bit of handeling...you buy snows to get around safely in horrible conditions and in the weather we are having this year I am glad I have these. Prior to this car I had a Audi S-4 and I believe that with this tires, my BMW is at least as good as the all wheel Audi!


If your doing hills Dunlop M2/M3 are NOT the way to go. They are deffinetly "winter" tires not "snow" tires. I did a bit of backwards sliding down hills last weekend in 4-6inches of slop.

I typically don't do a lot of hills and hate giving up dry weather performance so the M2's are perfect for me.


----------



## SizzlerMA (Sep 23, 2003)

OK, I'll probably go for the WS-50's.

But I never know what "give up a bit of dry road performance compared to . . ." means? Will it be better than Accord with A/S?

Or maybe I'm nuts for not getting the Xi if Denver looks more certain? I just feel like it's a loss in performance relative to the 330i, and performance is the whole reason I'm trading in the Accord. Any ideas?
Thanks for all the responses.


----------



## SizzlerMA (Sep 23, 2003)

mowgli said:


> I llive in Long Island in a very hilly area. My vote is definitly the WS-50's...so what you give up a bit of handeling...you buy snows to get around safely in horrible conditions and in the weather we are having this year I am glad I have these. Prior to this car I had a Audi S-4 and I believe that with this tires, my BMW is at least as good as the all wheel Audi!


What kind of tires did you have on the S4?


----------



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

SizzlerMA said:


> But I never know what "give up a bit of dry road performance compared to . . ." means? Will it be better than Accord with A/S?


As the owner of a 330i with Dunlop M2s and a FWD Passat with relatively cheap Pirelli all seasons, my answer is "yes". The 330i with M2s is more sure footed than the Passat in almost all aspects. It accelerates just about the same, but handles and stops much better.

Here's a great Car & Drive article on snow tires vs AWD if you haven't read it before. For your purposes, you might want to look at the graphs to compare the RWD E320 on snows versus the FWD A6 on all seasons.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=3888&page_number=1

I'm going to quote the entire article here in case the C&D website ever decides to get rid of it...



> *WINTER-TRACTION TEST: What Price Traction?*
> Snowbelt commuters are spending big for four-wheel drive in the name of improved traction. Is there a better way?
> BY FRANK MARKUS
> AARON KILEY
> ...


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

Braking performance on ice and snow is substantially better with the winter tires. 


And that test used 8+ year old tire technology (the original WS-15 blizzak came out no later than the mid 90's.). Had the winter tires been some of the newer ones like the WS-50, the differences may have been even more dramatic. Also the WS-50, while still not a sporty tire, has better handling than the old WS-15.


----------



## fkafka (Mar 12, 2002)

I sure would like to see you guys selling Hakkas, Gary!


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

fkafka said:


> I sure would like to see you guys selling Hakkas, Gary!


I hear and pass that very statement along to management pretty often !


----------



## SizzlerMA (Sep 23, 2003)

*Gary, comments?*

From Car and Driver:

Most places in the U.S. that get enough snow and ice to warrant buying winter tires also experience frequent thaws. That means folks end up driving winter tires on dry or damp pavement a lot of the time. _In those conditions, the winter tires provide noticeably less grip for stopping and turning than do all-season tires._ Their tall, soft tread blocks feel squirmy and imprecise during transient maneuvers. They also tend to wander more in crosswinds and on crowned pavement.

Any comments? Do you feel the WS-50's would be scary? Better off with the LM-22 for this reason? And "noticeably less" means?!?

I know there are no hard and fast answers, but since I've never driven on winter tires, I'm not sure what to think . . .


----------



## AG (Apr 24, 2002)

SizzlerMA said:


> From Car and Driver:
> 
> Most places in the U.S. that get enough snow and ice to warrant buying winter tires also experience frequent thaws. That means folks end up driving winter tires on dry or damp pavement a lot of the time. _In those conditions, the winter tires provide noticeably less grip for stopping and turning than do all-season tires._ Their tall, soft tread blocks feel squirmy and imprecise during transient maneuvers. They also tend to wander more in crosswinds and on crowned pavement.
> 
> ...


Are you planning on moving to Denver this winter? If not, I would suggest buying the LM-22 in a 16 inch tire. Since you primarily drive on Boston roads, you're probably better off with the H rated tires. I've got Dunlop M2's mounted on 17" wheels that I drove on when I lived up there, and they aren't very squirelly at all. Obviously, you're going to lose some performance if you go with the taller sidewall of the 16's. However, the trade off should be better snow performance up in the mountains for your ski trips. If you do move out to Denver and find the tires inadequate, just sell them and get the WS-50's. If it's really bad in Denver, you're probably going to need chains or a 4WD vehicle anyway, right? :dunno:


----------



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

SizzlerMA said:


> From Car and Driver:
> 
> Most places in the U.S. that get enough snow and ice to warrant buying winter tires also experience frequent thaws. That means folks end up driving winter tires on dry or damp pavement a lot of the time. _In those conditions, the winter tires provide noticeably less grip for stopping and turning than do all-season tires._ Their tall, soft tread blocks feel squirmy and imprecise during transient maneuvers. They also tend to wander more in crosswinds and on crowned pavement.
> 
> ...


That's why I suggested the LM-22s even if you're moving to Denver. Especially around Philadlelphia, 95% of the time the roads are nearly free of snow during the winter. I prefer having good dry grip so I got the Dunlop M2 snows.

The WS-50s might not be scary, but I bet they'll feel a bit less sporty than LM-22s. Even the Dunlop M2s will get you where you're going in heavy snow if you have some driving skill (heck, some people are comfortable driving with all seasons on their BMW in the snow, including my dad in his E39 540iA).

I had a set of the original WS-15 Blizzaks on 14" wheels on my wife's Civic about ten years ago and they really felt like snow tires. I had to seriously slow down and tiptoe around corners or I felt like I'd go out of control. I felt the squirm during turn in was a little scary and highway stability was also compromised...however, this was a Civic, so it's not like I was used to flying around corners with it anyway.

I also had Michelin Arctic Alpins on 15" wheels on my old 525i and although they were getting closer to the feel of an all season, I still didn't feel good going quickly. Now, with the 17" Dunlops on my 330i, I can go quickly, but I just have to hold myself back from really pushing maximum g-forces when hitting an offramp. As long as I stay smooth, they feel almost exactly like all seasons, with just a tiny bit more squirm than my summer tires (and I've now gotten used to it, so I don't even feel it anymore).

To help figure out which tires to choose, just ask yourself what your biggest fear is during the winter. Is it getting stuck or crashing your new BMW in the snow, or is it that your new BMW will feel like a bit like a Buick on dry roads?


----------



## SizzlerMA (Sep 23, 2003)

PhilH said:


> To help figure out which tires to choose, just ask yourself what your biggest fear is during the winter. Is it getting stuck or crashing your new BMW in the snow, or is it that your new BMW will feel like a bit like a Buick on dry roads?


Excellent point. Well, obviously "getting stuck or crashing my new BMW in the snow" is my biggest fear.

But, on the other hand, my Accord already feels like a Buick on dry roads and is paid for and insured, so the whole point of getting the bimmer is to have wicked handling and speed.

I guess I'm a little worried about "average safety" . . . are the WS-50's much worse on dry roads than the LM-22's, i.e., much longer stopping distances and much squirmier? If so, and if most of the time I'm on dry roads, then my "average risk" of an accident might be higher on the WS-50's, even though the LM-22's would have the higher "maximum risk" since they are worse on terrible snow conditions . . .

Who thinks I have OCD and should just make a decision like a man?!?


----------



## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

The LM22's and DSC have allowed me to go where ever I hve desired. The past 2 days here in PA have again proven to me the the combination of snow and dry capabilities of the LM22's make then my winter tire of choice :thumbup:


----------



## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

SizzlerMA said:


> Excellent point. Well, obviously "getting stuck or crashing my new BMW in the snow" is my biggest fear.
> 
> But, on the other hand, my Accord already feels like a Buick on dry roads and is paid for and insured, so the whole point of getting the bimmer is to have wicked handling and speed.
> 
> ...


A little perspective, I have the Dunlop M2's which by reviews are similar to the lm-22's. In the dry, they handle better then any A/S tire I've ever had, and also outperform the A/S's in the snow.

Do they make my car a snow mobile? No. But as long as I stay out of the mountains I'm in good shape. NJ has winters were it'll snow 2 times one year and 10 times the next. I've always been fine with A/S so the little added performance of the winter's are perfect, and full snows aren't neccessary.

If I lived in a hilly area, and if it snowed on a more frequent basis, I would have gotten the WS-50's

OCD is good for you.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

The WS-50 is certainly more squirmy, but is not anywhere near what I'd call dangerous on dry. The former Moderator of E46Fanatics, Eddie ran these on his 330CI, albeit in 225/45R17, but he was happy with the results. You'll get differing opinions on this depending on how much snow they encounter. I personally tend to err on the conservative side and run WS50's since much of my commute is neglected backroads.

Winter http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=/winter/index.jsp


----------



## SizzlerMA (Sep 23, 2003)

*Scenario for Gary*

Hi Gary,

Hey thanks for the input! So, maybe going with 17" WS-50's would be better? For instance, which of the following cases would give the best all-around snow and dry performance:

Case1: 225/45QR17 WS-50
Case2: 205/55QR16 WS-50
Case3: 205/55HR16 LM-22

Any opinions?

For instance, would taking the WS-50's in 17" improve their dry-road handling without dramatically affecting their snow/ice handling?

Maybe the thinner sidewall would help alot with the "squirminess" without the added width hurting the snow traction too much?

Thanks guys---I am close to putting down the deposit on the car as soon as I can get my "BMW in the Snow" confidence level high enough.


----------

