# How to find out about insurance coverage at track / autocross



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

How do you find what your insurance company will cover if you crash at an autox or a driver school at a track?

I read everything I can find from my insurance company (Amex through costco) and I can't find any mention of exclusions for racing, tracks, etc. I can't call either because everything you say is recorded. Does that mean I'm good to go? :eeps: 

General consensus seem to be that you're screwed at an autox because it's a timed racing event. But at a driver school isn't timed so they'll likely cover the accident but then drop you. If that's the case, then there's really no harm in trying driving school. :dunno: 

I'd love to experiment at a track, but I'm absolutely not willing to gamble $30K. I know the odds are low if I drive responsibly, but people make mistakes, coolant spills on the track, etc. Plus, the whole fun is to learn to get closer to the car's limits. 

What to do, what to do... Buying a semi-disposible track car is an option, but probably a bit too much of a step for me at this point.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Read the exclusion clause careful, that's all you need. If in doubt, have an attorney review teh exclusion clause. Your policy has the final say, not your stupid agent, or any drone answering the phone at the insurance call center.

The way insurance works, if it ain't exempt, you are covered. Calling them will just alert them to the fact and prompt them to send you an addendum with the exclusion to your policy.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Stuka said:


> Calling them will just alert them to the fact and prompt them to send you an addendum with the exclusion to your policy.


If not decline to renew you at the next opportunity.



rumratt said:


> General consensus seem to be that you're screwed at an *autox* because it's a timed racing event.


Well, maybe if it was a *racing* event, which it is not...depending on the sanctioning body, at least. This is only anecdotal, so don't draw conclusions, but every single autox incident that I am aware of where someone tried to submit a claim, it was covered. :dunno:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Stuka said:


> Read the exclusion clause careful, that's all you need. If in doubt, have an attorney review teh exclusion clause. Your policy has the final say, not your stupid agent, or any drone answering the phone at the insurance call center.
> 
> The way insurance works, if it ain't exempt, you are covered. Calling them will just alert them to the fact and prompt them to send you an addendum with the exclusion to your policy.


Stuka .. you are way too broad on what you are advising Rumratt. There is so much more involved then just reading the policy and it's exclusions ... don't forget there is an application that is completed and signed when a policy is taken out and this can be used against you if you misrepresented your use of the vehicle or all out lied ...

Having an attorney read the policy is a great idea and I advise my clients to do this as well but keep in mind most attorney's have never read an Insurance policy before unless you go to an Attorney who happens to specialize in Insurance and in this case Automobile physical damage coverage.

One other thing to keep in mind is the Attorney will be giving his interpretation of what he thinks, meanwhile an Insurance company has their interpretation and then there is always the interpretation of the court ... it could get frusterating and the only way for sure Rumratt can make sure he is covered for sure is to:

A) Send in writing exactly what he wants to know to the Isnurance Company
B) take a chance and go by the interpretation's he receives and hope for the best

I can tell you for sure that timed events are not covered with the Carrier's I represent.


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

At this point I'm going with the logic that an accident at an autox is low enough probability that I'll take the gamble.  I'm basically closing my eyes in ignorance and hoping for the best.

But I wouldn't take the car to a track without figuring this out. I'll wait a bit more and see if I still have the itch to go to a driver school on a track.


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

rumratt said:


> Thanks for the suggestions everyone.
> 
> At this point I'm going with the logic that an accident at an autox is low enough probability that I'll take the gamble.  I'm basically closing my eyes in ignorance and hoping for the best.
> 
> But I wouldn't take the car to a track without figuring this out. I'll wait a bit more and see if I still have the itch to go to a driver school on a track.


If you want to learn how your car handles at the limit, the track is where you'd go.
But don't be surprised to find. at least while you're in the green group, that the cars limit lies way beyond your own limits. :rofl:


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

rumratt said:


> How do you find what your insurance company will cover if you crash at an autox or a driver school at a track?
> 
> I read everything I can find from my insurance company (Amex through costco) and I can't find any mention of exclusions for racing, tracks, etc. I can't call either because everything you say is recorded. Does that mean I'm good to go? :eeps:
> 
> ...


The bottom line comes down to the fact that it's a risk. Even if you are covered with a track incident and then cancelled...you are somewhat hosed and will probably end up with huge premiums for a long time at a 2nd rate insurance company. I'd suggest some autocrosses to practice your car control skills, then a track day with a group known for high safety levels, such as BMWCCA at a track with very few walls or trees. By the way, it's not only a risk for your car but your personal health as well. I assume you have health insurance and disability insurance...if not, you're taking a big risk.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

AF-RX8 said:


> Stuka .. you are way too broad on what you are advising Rumratt. There is so much more involved then just reading the policy and it's exclusions ... don't forget there is an application that is completed and signed when a policy is taken out and this can be used against you if you misrepresented your use of the vehicle or all out lied ...
> 
> Having an attorney read the policy is a great idea and I advise my clients to do this as well but keep in mind most attorney's have never read an Insurance policy before unless you go to an Attorney who happens to specialize in Insurance and in this case Automobile physical damage coverage.
> 
> ...


Contacting the insurance company is a waste of time IMO. You will never get a comfort letter from them stating you are covered...never.

What you are likely to get is what Stuka mentioned...a letter stating that you are NOT covered and a chance that your policy will not be renewed.

Also, the more people that call inquiring about this issue, the more awareness its going to create in the industry and the more likely it is that all future policies will exclude any type of activity on race track property, etc.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

This issue was also discussed in this thread.

A couple months ago there was an article in Autoweek about car manufacturers scanning autocross participants lists online to deny warranty coverage. :yikes: Makes me wonder if thery are any insurance companies doing the same? :dunno:


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

Thanks for the link. :thumbup:


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

ain't gonna happen for autox unless it's an untimed testing event :dunno: , as the companies come to deal with these claims they rewrite their policies to specifically exclude the activities including DE events, for the few that remain they "may" cover you but you'll likely be dropped as a result


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> Contacting the insurance company is a waste of time IMO. You will never get a comfort letter from them stating you are covered...never.
> 
> What you are likely to get is what Stuka mentioned...a letter stating that you are NOT covered and a chance that your policy will not be renewed.
> 
> Also, the more people that call inquiring about this issue, the more awareness its going to create in the industry and the more likely it is that all future policies will exclude any type of activity on race track property, etc.


If the Company was to put in writing that he was not covered they would have to quote the part of the policy specially stating where it says this which would answer Rumratt's question.

The company can't decide since they don't like the idea of using a car in an Autoschool that the Insured won't be covered, all Insurance is, is a Contract and the Carrier, Lawyers and the court of law as well as a State Insurance Department are the ones that can determine coverage.

BTW I am answering Rumratt's question directly but I agree that there is definitely a possiblity that the Carrier would non-renew his policy if they were to find out especially by his own admittance that he intends to use the car for a driving school.


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

AF-RX8 said:


> If the Company was to put in writing that he was not covered they would have to quote the part of the policy specially stating where it says this which would answer Rumratt's question.
> 
> The company can't decide since they don't like the idea of using a car in an Autoschool that the Insured won't be covered, all Insurance is, is a Contract and the Carrier, Lawyers and the court of law as well as a State Insurance Department are the ones that can determine coverage.
> 
> BTW I am answering Rumratt's question directly but I agree that there is definitely a possiblity that the Carrier would non-renew his policy if they were to find out especially by his own admittance that he intends to use the car for a driving school.


 USAA excludes all "SPEED" events


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

IMHO... be prepared to cover the cost of any track/autox incidents yourself. Don't expect insurance to cover anything. If you can't swing it, don't do it.

That's why I got a $4K shifter kart... I can trash the thing and not break the bank (assuming I don't wreck *myself* too badly...)


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## ///M-Spec (Jun 3, 2004)

Chiming in late on this, but I wouldn't be too concerned about damage at an autocross, rumratt. You're much more likely to get into a wreck driving to and from the event than at it.

Any autocross that has a proficient safety steward that is actually doing his job should be very safe unless you are driving like an idiot, in which case you'll be asked to leave in short order. The courses are set up with plenty of margin for error and the speeds are low compared to track events. I'd be much more concerned for the safety of the corner workers than someone behind the wheel. Of course, this is dependant on the sanctioning body... but stick with SCCA and BMWCCA and you should be fine.

In short, go for it, keep you head on and have fun.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

many, many years ago my street car was hit in an on track collision with another car at, of all places, a drag strip! 

Ended up costing me around $6k - $7k out of pocket  


worst autox incident in 10 yrs of action is a small dent from sliding sideways into a finish line timing light, I have seen cars get totaled by trees, light poles, etc. In almost every case it's driver error (including my timing light dent incident, tried to force the car to override the laws of physics) so don't do anything stupid and you should be ok. :dunno:


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