# So long BMW...My New Car is a .......



## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

cityscapex5 said:


> True..but the top of the line Acura is not priced too far from a loaded 330i.


 

In this part of the world no matter how loaded a 330i is ordered it is not going to cost $90,000 (the price of an Acura NSX).


----------



## iove75 (Sep 10, 2004)

cityscapex5 said:


> uh..what condescending comments? who brought up politics in this thread until someone (predictably) tried to hijack and belittle the discussion by bringing up 'save the earth' t-shirts - sort of like your 'John Kerry' bumperstickers' comments - look in the mirror.


Hey Man, congrats on your purchase. Wife was looking for a car a few months back and we got a Honda Accord Hybrid. Hybrids are great products in their own rights.


----------



## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

cityscapex5 said:


> I haven't owned a civic in 20 years but i put badge snobbery aside and i'm getting an amazing ride and value that BMW cannot approach.


I don't know about that, since value is subjective. The handling and fun-to-drive factor of a 3 far exceeds double that of a Civic, let alone having half the 0-60 time. For some BMW owners, the value is mostly in the drive, not the mileage (and that's okay).



> I can own any BMW or Mercedes model with cash and i'm not convinced that i'm getting a better car.


Why not own both cars then? :dunno:



> oh yeah, when the doors close they "thunk" better than my 02 330 coupe.


Who cares? Oh yeah, the hybrid has a sedan door, not a coupe door.


----------



## Jever (Apr 16, 2003)

misterlance said:


> I think the new civic is cool looking. A huge leap from the last gen.
> 
> That said, I still dont like FWD and I like crash protection. I would hate to be hit by an SUV in one of the new itty bitty cars. If I survived.


You might be surprised at the durability of a Civic in a wreck. One of my close friends got rear-ended by a Suburban/Tahoe. She was stopped at a stop sign. The police estimated the speed of the SUV to be around 60mph. She and her friend walked away w/ minor injuries. Kirsten had broken her back several years ago so that got reinjured but after a quick checkup at the hospital she was released that day. The pictures were absolutely amazing. The trunk was completely caved in and most likely anyone in the back seats would have gotten hurt but assuming they were wearing seatbelts I doubt the injuries would have been more than some extreme whiplash. I'll see if she still has the pix and try and post sometime (if I remember anyway.)


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

cityscapex5 said:


> Because Hybrids use batteries isn't enough to dismiss them - that's pretty convenient and fits neatly into we're all ruining the environment by breathing so why should we bother conserving anything?. The impact of the Nimh batteries which are warranteed for 10 years or 150K miles and fits between the back seat of the civic and the trunk needs to be considered but i think they will stand up quite well to the thousands of gallons of gasoline I would consume over that time period. Even between the current Prius and 06 Civic Hybrid technology is improving. The 04 Prius battery is quite complicated and costs $7500 to replace vs. $2000 for the civic which is quite small and fits into a small space between the rear seat and the trunk so they are getting better, cheaper and smaller. I'm far from a 'Save the Earth' caricature you would like to believe and Hybrids aren't the only answer so need need to go on a liberal, green bashing or whatever trip your on.


You're wrong, any board veterans can tell you I'm a big global warming proponent. I don't mean to rain on your parade, it's not Civic hybrids that annoy me, it's the hybrid bandwagon that's producing 4000 lb hybrid SUVs that qualify for the tax break with 2mpg improvements. Someone's gotta stop the hybrid fantasy in its tracks.

While the cost of the batteries is coming down, and they appear to last longer than the 8 years initially thought, the fact is, Ni in battery form is a toxic metal, and is not recyclable. It will end up in a landfill, and not just any landfill, a special one for semi-toxins.

There are also electric motors, generators, complex computers - all of which cost more materials and energy to produce than a normal Civic.

Finally, the difference in gas savings between a 40 mpg Civic EX, and a 51 mpg Hybrid (don't believe the EPA ratings, they're phony), is 22%. That's a smaller difference than between a 12 mpg Dodge Ram SRT-10, and a 17 mpg Cadillac Escalade. Maybe we should give the tax incentive to the Escalade buyer?


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

MARCUS330i said:


> I'm dying for a BMW hybrid....but for now the 30 mpg highway in my 330 will be fine. 40, 40, do I hear 40???


BMW 330d gets 43 mpg (real on the highway, not EPA test lab mpg - same as a Prius on the highway). It also has 369 lb ft of torque and no toxic batteries.

BMW, and Europe in general, don't make hybrids, because they know that hybrids are an expensive, temporary solution to the fuel consumption problem. BMW knows that to save fuel, you don't put two engines, two electric motors, and a big battery pack in a car.

Diesel technology is superior already, and Hydrogen technology is the real way of the future. Hold out for a BMW diesel of Hydrogen car. Avoid buying gas guzzlers and turn the heat down on your house if you want to help the environment.


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

No big deal, having a few hundred pounds of Ni-MH batteries in your car right?

From the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for Ni-MH battery cells.



> 1. HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION
> 
> EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE
> 
> ...


----------



## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

One of the things that has not been mentioned in this thread is what is going to be the resale value of an older hybrid car? I am not sure that I would not want to buy a hybrid where the batteries are close to the end of their life cycle. It will not cost some chump change to get them replaced. :yikes: The number I have seem floating around is in the many, many thousands of dollars.


----------



## Boile (Jul 5, 2005)

cityscapex5 said:


> Actually its get's to 60 in about 10 seconds....the 330i..i don't have the figures but i doubt it's 6 seconds. How many times did i do 0-60 for speed in my 330ci? Not enough to justify mentioning.


0-60 is just one accepted simple way of measuring the car's potential.
I use that potential every day. Maybe not exactly from 0 to 60, but 30 to 50, or 50 to 80.
When I drive my other car and people do stupid things around me, I keep saying (in my internal voice) "You wouldn't dare doing that if I were in my BMW". When I'm in the BMW I feel confident. That fell is what makes the cost-value curve exponential.
But hey, if you only use it for office commute, that's as sensible a choice anyone can make, as long as you have something else for the weekends. If that's your only car, well, there's nothing wrong with that neither. Just don't call yourself a car enthusiast.


----------



## Boile (Jul 5, 2005)

cityscapex5 said:


> Well thanks to W who signed the Energy Bill taking effect this year hybrid owners are getting a tax credit this year of $3400 for the Prius and something a little less for the 06 Civic. The reason is that somehow the Prius is classified as a mid size based on interior room even though its a little shorter than the Civic. The credit increases based upon comparative mileage to other car's in its class so the Prius is compared to other midsize cars and awarded a higher credit.


One shouldn't include temporary, politically motivated incentives in a justification for going one technology versus the other. Otherwise, we should also consider the fantastic rebates (up to $5K) on some BMW models.
If the technology is good, it should stand on its own merit, and not need the incentive to begin with.


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Boile said:


> One shouldn't include temporary, politically motivated incentives in a justification for going one technology versus the other. Otherwise, we should also consider the fantastic rebates (up to $5K) on some BMW models.
> If the technology is good, it should stand on its own merit, and not need the incentive to begin with.


Bush probably wants people to buy hybrids, cause each Prius or Escape hybrid sale enables Ford or Toyota to sell two more 15 mpg SUVs.


----------



## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

I know I may get ripped for this, but IMO more hybrid owners are interested in their perceived status in owning one of these vehicles than they are in being "green".


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

tcoz said:


> I know I may get ripped for this, but IMO more hybrid owners are interested in their perceived status in owning one of these vehicles than they are in being "green".


They're also mislead by the car industry and the EPA.



> *Buy a Hybrid, and Save a Guzzler*
> 
> Source: Copyright 2006, *New York Times*
> Date: February 8, 2006
> ...


----------



## #5880 (Feb 11, 2006)

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F2BEF-ECD0-119B-ACD083414B7F0000

Here is the best of both worlds untill another technology is developed (hydrogen).

Just turn off the cylinders that you aren't using and close the valves.

I'm suprised BMW hasn't already incorporated this, because it works with diesal as well.


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

atyclb said:


> how do you know you got 57mpg on the way to work? must be a long commute combined with filling up right before you arrived?


Doesn't have to be a long commute. He fills up the before sleeping, the next day he drives to work, and back home, notes the mileage, then fills up again, notes the gallons.


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> The great irony is that those who buy hybrids are harming the environment just as much as helping it. I shudder to think if hybrids take off, what we're going to do with all those toxic Ni-MH batteries. We better have some massive secure landfill ready for those. Not to mention people are trading in perfectly good cars, and having a factory build a hybrid for them. One more car for the landfill then.
> 
> So hybrids are symbols more than real environmental saviors. Like a 'Save the Planet' t-shirt.
> 
> If you really want to help the environment, buy the regular Civic. It gets 40 mpg, and takes less environmental cost to build and dispose of. Put a 'Save the Planet' sticker on the bumper.


Why are you assuming that these batteries will be thrown out? Is there something in the chemistry of Ni-MH batteries that makes them impossible to salvage? Perhaps now they are, but as technology progresses I would think defunct batteries will be recycled.


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> Diesel technology is superior already, and Hydrogen technology is the real way of the future. Hold out for a BMW diesel of Hydrogen car. Avoid buying gas guzzlers and turn the heat down on your house if you want to help the environment.


I disagree that Hydrogen is the way of the future. There's so many billion dollars of infrastructure change to make hydrogen happen. And how do you plan to make hydrogen? Solar power? Solar cells currently have abysmal efficiency. It takes more energy to make solar cells than that cell will return in it's lifetime. Someone calculated it out, you will need the entire state of Nevada for solar panels to fulfill the energy needs of United States today. Not the future, today. And that's assuming ideal conditions.

Who knows? Perhaps there will be a breakthrough in solar cell technology. So in the meantime, how do you plan to make Hydrogen? Well, the cheapest way right now is to suck it out of oil wells. The next is to produce it mixing methane or coal with steam to produce hydrogen and our favorite green house gas C02. Not to mention, reacting it with coal will release other crap, and our cheapest supply of methane also comes from the oil wells.


----------



## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

cityscapex5 said:


> Don't get me wrong...i appreciate a BMW which made me spend 5K more for my 330 than a 325 and the performance and handling of a manual transmission coupe over the sedan. Its these labels...such as 'economy car' you need to leave behind. I don't feel that the 06 Civic is an economy car and more than a small 3 series is an economy car even coming from a BMW. If you havent seen or driven the 06 Civic you are going to have to rethink what a Civic is. Are we afraid that people are going to think...OMG, he drives a Civic that we won't even consider one? Are our perceptions about ourselves diminished because we don't drive a BMW or Mercedes? *90% of BMW and Mercedes owners are mostly driving them for their badge...is that wrong?* no, but lets be honest about that. Honda can deliver a car that has these features and is a hybrid as well which is amazing, frankly BMW needs to try harder and give us more for our money, that's really my point - *they are lucky that they have an audience that is willing to pay anything that they ask for for a mostly perceived benefit ...* that's the goal of marketing so they are phenomenally succesful in that regard.


I read through this entire thread...  please tell me that you people see this trolling thread for what it is  ... seriously. :tsk:

90% buy for the badge... wrong?

YES... wrong.

Every post in this thread makes it quite clear that this was nothing more then an attempt to ruffle feathers. :thumbdwn:

People buy BMWs for many reasons... better materials... better build quality... better performance... better driving experience in EVERY category... better value, now and later... better peace of mind... etc...

Your _perception _is clearly warped... :tsk:


----------



## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

BlackChrome said:


> 5 minutes of research and I found this:
> 
> 2006 Civic crash test
> 
> ...


You do realize that these test are performed on a sliding scale with cars in their same class. 

I know several fire fighters, cops, and paramedics that would RIDICULE this comparison for the fraud that it is.

The BMW is VASTLY SUPERIOR in every safety category... from accident avoidance to dealing with the unfortunate wreck itself. VASTLY SUPERIOR.


----------



## ihs84 (Dec 2, 2005)

LDV330i said:


> In this part of the world no matter how loaded a 330i is ordered it is not going to cost $90,000 (the price of an Acura NSX).


Honda stops building NSX because no one is paying 90K for 6 cynlinder engine that output only 300 bhp. In the end people should buy whatever they can afford and make them happy. If owning a hybrid car makes one feels good about saving the environment and go for it. For every new technology we have to wait at least a few years to see the cause and effect. When I have my first kid, I decide to buy a SUV instead of a van. For me I think the SUV is safer. It has more mass, more crumple zone in both front and back, so my kid has more safety space in the middle row. Since it is heavier, it is more stable than van on a windy day. I don't drive my SUV like a car. It has slightly higher center of gravity than car, so I corner more slowly than when I drive my car. My kid loves the SUV and only that matters in the end.


----------



## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20060219.html


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

SmoothCruise said:


> Why are you assuming that these batteries will be thrown out? Is there something in the chemistry of Ni-MH batteries that makes them impossible to salvage? Perhaps now they are, but as technology progresses I would think defunct batteries will be recycled.


How does one recycle an oxidized metal?


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

SmoothCruise said:


> I disagree that Hydrogen is the way of the future. There's so many billion dollars of infrastructure change to make hydrogen happen. And how do you plan to make hydrogen? Solar power? Solar cells currently have abysmal efficiency. It takes more energy to make solar cells than that cell will return in it's lifetime. Someone calculated it out, you will need the entire state of Nevada for solar panels to fulfill the energy needs of United States today. Not the future, today. And that's assuming ideal conditions.
> 
> Who knows? Perhaps there will be a breakthrough in solar cell technology. So in the meantime, how do you plan to make Hydrogen? Well, the cheapest way right now is to suck it out of oil wells. The next is to produce it mixing methane or coal with steam to produce hydrogen and our favorite green house gas C02. Not to mention, reacting it with coal will release other crap, and our cheapest supply of methane also comes from the oil wells.


Dude, you're so misinformed. Read up on modern solar cells. While job interviewing, I visited a factory where they build them, it's quite low tech and cheap to make them. Efficiency in a solar cell is already higher than a gasoline engine.

How to make hydrogen? You can make it using fuel cells from any hydrocarbon, only at much higher efficiency than combustion. Read up on hydrogen and get back to us.


----------



## tcoz (Sep 10, 2005)

What I love most about these forums is that we have arguably the most well educated and most knowledgeable group of BMW owners in the world. When we have an issue with our cars or dealers we let everyone know about it and we're not afraid to criticize them.

BUT, when someone (usually an "outsider") throws a blanket over us and our cars and unjustifyingly rips either one, we join together and show our loyalty and love for BMW and our cars.

Thanks to everyone.


----------



## falcon123 (Aug 26, 2005)

cityscapex5 said:


> Don't get me wrong...i appreciate a BMW which made me spend 5K more for my 330 than a 325 and the performance and handling of a manual transmission coupe over the sedan. Its these labels...such as 'economy car' you need to leave behind. I don't feel that the 06 Civic is an economy car and more than a small 3 series is an economy car even coming from a BMW. If you havent seen or driven the 06 Civic you are going to have to rethink what a Civic is. Are we afraid that people are going to think...OMG, he drives a Civic that we won't even consider one? Are our perceptions about ourselves diminished because we don't drive a BMW or Mercedes? 90% of BMW and Mercedes owners are mostly driving them for their badge...is that wrong? no, but lets be honest about that. Honda can deliver a car that has these features and is a hybrid as well which is amazing, frankly BMW needs to try harder and give us more for our money, that's really my point - they are lucky that they have an audience that is willing to pay anything that they ask for for a mostly perceived benefit ... that's the goal of marketing so they are phenomenally succesful in that regard.


You've got to be kidding. I think you are just trying to make yourself feel better or justify the purchase. I wouldn't even have honda civic and bmw in a same sentence. I drive those economical cars, and yes, honda civic, accord are still economical cars. Fit and finish of a civic might be better than bmw, but no where close in the 'luxury' factor of materials being used. Why don't we bring a chevy cobalt or some of the other 'economical rockets' into the equation. As mentioned before, sit in the two and you'll see the big difference. You even mention Kia, that Honda is so much better. Again, you're dreaming. We have the top of the line Kia Sorento SUV and I don't think that top of the line Honda SUV is better than a Kia SUV. Not sure if they can beat the 'luxury' factor of Kia - maybe Kia is a bit rough around the edges and that's where Honda excels. Honda used to be the most reliable brand, don't think anymore. I think you should re-visit Kia.

I think you should go back and sit in some of the luxury vehicles, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Infinity and then sit in a Honda and tell me again that they are comparable and that BMW should justify it's price. There is a small premium on a BMW brand, but Audi, Lexus are catching up very quickly. You're talking economy vs. luxury. :wahwah:

You should've said that you bought your civic to save money on gas, sticker price, and maybe on repairs. But then again, if you keep at it long enough, you will eventually believe it... :thumbup:

Sorry, for being sarcastic here. I want to get my 330i not for the name only, but the whole package. Surprise, surprise, in my research I didn't consider a civic :banghead: but BMW, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti... Can't compare 30k are to a 50k car. Stay real :thumbup:


----------



## falcon123 (Aug 26, 2005)

cityscapex5 said:


> Don't get me wrong...i appreciate a BMW which made me spend 5K more for my 330 than a 325 and the performance and handling of a manual transmission coupe over the sedan. Its these labels...such as 'economy car' you need to leave behind. I don't feel that the 06 Civic is an economy car and more than a small 3 series is an economy car even coming from a BMW. If you havent seen or driven the 06 Civic you are going to have to rethink what a Civic is. Are we afraid that people are going to think...OMG, he drives a Civic that we won't even consider one? Are our perceptions about ourselves diminished because we don't drive a BMW or Mercedes? 90% of BMW and Mercedes owners are mostly driving them for their badge...is that wrong? no, but lets be honest about that. Honda can deliver a car that has these features and is a hybrid as well which is amazing, frankly BMW needs to try harder and give us more for our money, that's really my point - they are lucky that they have an audience that is willing to pay anything that they ask for for a mostly perceived benefit ... that's the goal of marketing so they are phenomenally succesful in that regard.


You've got to be kidding. I think you are just trying to make yourself feel better or justify the purchase. I wouldn't even have honda civic and bmw in a same sentence. I drive those economical cars, and yes, honda civic, accord are still economical cars. Fit and finish of a civic might be better than bmw, but no where close in the 'luxury' factor of materials being used. Why don't we bring a chevy cobalt or some of the other 'economical rockets' into the equation. Just because they're fast, it doesn't make them a BMW. If you can't afford a BMW and still want a 'fast' engine, you might buy a cobalt.

As mentioned before, sit in the two and you'll see the big difference. You even mention Kia, that Honda is so much better. Again, you're dreaming. We have the top of the line Kia Sorento SUV and I don't think that top of the line Honda SUV is better than a Kia SUV. Not sure if they can beat the 'luxury' factor of Kia - maybe Kia is a bit rough around the edges and that's where Honda excels. Honda used to be the most reliable brand, don't think anymore. I think you should re-visit Kia.

I think you should go back and sit in some of the luxury vehicles, Lexus, BMW, Audi, Infinity and then sit in a Honda and tell me again that they are comparable and that BMW should justify it's price. There is a small premium on a BMW brand, but Audi, Lexus are catching up very quickly. You're talking economy vs. luxury. :wahwah:

You should've said that you bought your civic to save money on gas, sticker price, and maybe on repairs. But then again, if you keep at it long enough, you will eventually believe it... :thumbup:

Sorry, for being sarcastic here. I want to get my 330i not for the name only, but the whole package. Surprise, surprise, in my research I didn't consider a civic :banghead: but BMW, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti... Can't compare 30k are to a 50k car. Stay real :thumbup:


----------



## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

hydrogen is a good idea, but it will never happen. Its just too expensive to put in the infrastructure. and there is no great way to make hydrogen.

Diesels are a joke, all european cities i've been to are dirty, sooty places. Have you been to Greece, Italy, etc.


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> Dude, you're so misinformed. Read up on modern solar cells. While job interviewing, I visited a factory where they build them, it's quite low tech and cheap to make them. Efficiency in a solar cell is already higher than a gasoline engine.


so you are saying that gasoline engines are less than about 12% efficient? Okay.


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

SmoothCruise said:


> so you are saying that gasoline engines are less than about 12% efficient? Okay.


i'm saying the 12% efficiency number is from 1977. Do some research, they're up to as much as 40% now.


----------



## mapsbmw (Jan 16, 2006)

I got to ride in a $28,000 Honda Accord this weekend. After that ride I was able to justify why I spent $4K on a car that didn't have all those cool options like navi, leather, etc. The BMW ride and feel is untouchable to any Honda and quite frankly, the thing I am doing most in the car is DRIVING IT! 

Like my father said when I was considering the TSX....take away all those cool features like Bluetooth, heated seats, navigation, memory/power front seats, etc and what are you left with??? A $20,000 Honda Accord without even a V6. At least with BMW they let you know what you get without all those "cool" features....a well built car with an enjoyable ride. 

And as for badge snobbery....that's ignorance.


----------



## mapsbmw (Jan 16, 2006)

falcon123 said:


> You've got to be kidding. I think you are just trying to make yourself feel better or justify the purchase. I wouldn't even have honda civic and bmw in a same sentence. I drive those economical cars, and yes, honda civic, accord are still economical cars. Fit and finish of a civic might be better than bmw, but no where close in the 'luxury' factor of materials being used. Why don't we bring a chevy cobalt or some of the other 'economical rockets' into the equation. Just because they're fast, it doesn't make them a BMW. If you can't afford a BMW and still want a 'fast' engine, you might buy a cobalt.
> to be the most reliable brand, don't think anymore. I think you should re-visit Kia.


:stupid:


----------



## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> How does one recycle an oxidized metal?


There are some companies that are starting to extract the nickel from Ni-MH batteries because the price of nickel is high enough to make it worthwhile.


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> How does one recycle an oxidized metal?


If metal oxides are chemically impenetrable, how is this a biological hazard?


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

gojira-san said:


> There are some companies that are starting to extract the nickel from Ni-MH batteries because the price of nickel is high enough to make it worthwhile.


If they're extracting any Ni, which I'm sure they can, it's the unoxidized material.

All those Ni-MH batteries will go to a 'recycling' facility, sure, but those are really just toxic waste treatment plants, most of the dead batteries is gonna be waste.


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

SmoothCruise said:


> If metal oxides are chemically impenetrable, how is this a biological hazard?


What the heck are you talking about, chemically impenetrable? Just go google "How batteries work" or something.


----------



## SmoothCruise (Jul 23, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> What the heck are you talking about, chemically impenetrable? Just go google "How batteries work" or something.


Your complaint was that Ni-MH batteries are toxic when thrown out. My claim was that they can be recycled. Now you claim that Nickel Oxide can't be recycled. So, I'd just assume that Nickel Oxide is toxic? So if they can't be recycled, (which they can be), then they must be chemically inert, so why the objection about them being toxic? Get it?

Now it turns out they can be recycled. Why don't you look it up.


----------



## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

I congratulate you on your purchase, Dawg90, upon getting a car that you wanted, in light of your 'druthers, the things that were important to you in selecting the vehicle.

I would never diss a Honda or Toyota, because by and large, they're reliable, well-made cars that also have the advantage of being very good used cars as well.

I've had several Toyotas, but when I turned 45 three years ago, I simply didn't want another Camry or Accord, no disrespect intended to those fine automobiles. I wanted, I *needed* something extra, an intangible something.

As many of you know I test drove a passel o'cars: Audi, Acura, Saab, Volvo, Cadillac, Lexus, Mercedes, Infiniti, Subaru WRX (as recompense for forcing one of my adolescent sons to place his _gluetus maximus_ in a gasp, horror, *Volvo S60* on a test drive :yikes: - I chose the Bimmer, because it simply had that intangible something that I was looking for. It was the exhaust note, the ride, the feel, and these things are still true even after *95,565 miles (152,904 kilometers, Herr Moderator  )*

Yah, I've had to visit the mechanic more than with my Toyotas, and give up larger amounts of "dead presidents" when I did so - but I feel it has been *well worth it!*

I'd love to get another Bimmer (yes, keys to a black 645i, 6-speed with the Claret leather can be sent to Chino Hills, California  ), but I'm open to other possibilities (at least those in which a *real transmission* is available!)


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

SmoothCruise said:


> Your complaint was that Ni-MH batteries are toxic when thrown out. My claim was that they can be recycled. Now you claim that Nickel Oxide can't be recycled. So, I'd just assume that Nickel Oxide is toxic? So if they can't be recycled, (which they can be), then they must be chemically inert, so why the objection about them being toxic? Get it?
> 
> Now it turns out they can be recycled. Why don't you look it up.


Oh jeez, this is why people actually study chemistry, instead of just making stuff up. 

Nickel oxide is not the only byproduct of the electrolytic reaction, got it? A used Ni-MH battery is a toxic soup.

Toxic waste is often sent to 'recycling' centers - it's a euphamism for waste disposal. Just cause you send something to a recycling plant, doesn't mean they'll get anything meaningful out of it. Much of today's cars can technically be recycled, but no one wants to spend the money to do it, so they end up in a landfill.


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

car_for_mom said:


> I congratulate you on your purchase, Dawg90, upon getting a car that you wanted, in light of your 'druthers, the things that were important to you in selecting the vehicle.
> 
> I would never diss a Honda or Toyota, because by and large, they're reliable, well-made cars that also have the advantage of being very good used cars as well.


I never dissed Honda or Toyota, I said car companies and the US government are misleading people by promoting hybrids, which are really more a marketing solution to environmental conservation rather than a real one.


----------



## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

Dawg90 said:


> I never dissed Honda or Toyota, I said car companies and the US government are misleading people by promoting hybrids, which are really more a marketing solution to environmental conservation rather than a real one.


Ah, no - I wasn't saying that *you* were dissing or had dissed them; I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was referring to myself...I think you are correct in saying that hybrids are more marketing than solution. However, they're a start...


----------

