# Found M3 sedan I want...need some opinions



## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

I am looking at possibly buying a 98 M3/4. It has all the options I am interested in, 60k miles, and the price is right. 

Before I trek down to NJ to take a look, I was hoping for some input on a few things. 

First, seat wear. Here is a photo of the drivers seat. I know the camera flash makes it look worse than it really is, but is this going to look really crappy in person?


Also, how many miles can I expect out of this thing before things start breaking?

Thanks in advance.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2003)

A- I don't think that will look as bad in person

B- If the rest of the car is in good condition, you can always re-dye seats

C- You'll be sitting on it most of the time anyway and won't notice


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

D Some leatherique will improve that quite a bit.

It probably could use new shocks... (And rear shock mounts...)


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

Thanks. I think I will go and take a look. Anything I should be on the lookout for? Yes, I have read the M3 FAQ. However, the whole thing never opens on my computer for some reason. 

Also...the miles. Am I asking for trouble getting one with such high miles?


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2003)

zcasavant said:


> *Thanks. I think I will go and take a look. Anything I should be on the lookout for? Yes, I have read the M3 FAQ. However, the whole thing never opens on my computer for some reason.
> 
> Also...the miles. Am I asking for trouble getting one with such high miles? *


It's 5-6 years old. That mileage still only works out to 10-12K/year.

My car was a find with only 26K on it (it has 48K now).


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

*here it is*

Here it is.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

zcasavant said:


> *Thanks. I think I will go and take a look. Anything I should be on the lookout for? Yes, I have read the M3 FAQ. However, the whole thing never opens on my computer for some reason.
> 
> Also...the miles. Am I asking for trouble getting one with such high miles? *


That seat is fine. As Nick says, some leather treatment will help considerably.

My car has 60K on it. Based on my experience, you will need the following soon if it hasn't been done already:

-New shocks--figure 600 for the parts (for Konis or Bilsteins), about 550 for installation of the fronts, and another 350 for installation of the rears. New mounts (which you *will* need) are 70.

-New brakes. Rotors are between 50 and 70 per wheel. Pads are like 70 per axle. You can do this yourself, or factor labor in.

-It may need various bushings in the suspension, such as the rear trailing arm bushing. Don't know the costs on these, but they are still OK on my car.

Clutch should still be OK. The radiator neck is something to watch out for when you start getting above 60K. You'll also want to do a fluid flush (coolant, brakes). Listen for the VANOS noise. Ask if the shifter sticks in the 5th gear plane when its cold.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: here it is*



zcasavant said:


> *Here it is. *


Nice. Verify that those are real LTW wheels, and not replicas (ask if the guy has the original sticker).


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

The mileage is reasonable, but at that mileage you may notice that the car feels somewhat "loose." This is most likely due to bushings that are wearing out. You won't have to replace them any time soon but you will notice a dramatic improvement in ride once you do.

The seat wear actually doesn't look that bad to me. It will look better without the flash. The rest of the interior (what little of it I could see in that pic) looks acceptable as well.

What year is the car again? While the engine and transmission is cold, you will want to test for the "sticking in 5th gear" issue. Shift into 5th while driving normally and then try to shift into neutral. See if the stick automatically returns to center after you pull it out of 5. The problem may go away as the car warms up. There was a change made to the transmission in late '97 or '98, and some owners have reported this problem at around 50000 miles. It does NOT happen to all cars. BMW dealers will recommend replacement of the entire transmission because their technicians are not authorized to tear into them. In reality, the fix is as simple as replacing/relubing one spring that is accessed from the side of the transmission housing. Jim Blanton outlined the procedure in a recent Roundel, but I do not know if it is doable with the tranny in the car. like I said, this is a pretty rare occurance, despite what you may read online.

Overall the car is very robust and reliable. When you take it for a test drive, do not be afraid to drive it hard. If the car feels solid to you, it will probably be fine for a long time. I know many people with over 150,000 miles on their M3s with no major issues, and I would expect these cars to go much longer before they bite the dust.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: here it is*



zcasavant said:


> *Here it is. *


Ah, it has the LTW rims too. Those were a ~$2K option back when these cars were new.

When it comes to checking these cars out, look for signs of abuse. But if we're only looking at maintenance items, I wouldn't rule out a car for that. Hell, it's got 60K on the clock. Odds are something (shocks, shock mounts, control arm bushings, brakes, SOMETHING) probably needs replacing. But once it's replaced, you have the car you were looking for.

I'd check for a tight clutch and overall tight feel plus look for VIN stickers on the fenders and hood. Also, service records are a big plus to guarantee that it has been properly maintained.

Otherwise, if it needs a little love to make it perfect, you just get a chance to start bonding with the car (by taking it apart and putting it back together) that much sooner.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> What year is the car again? *


It's a 98; check the headrests in the back. It also looks like Titanium (rather than Arctic) Silver; that would make it a late build 98 (i.e., sometime in calendar year 98, rather than 97).


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: here it is*



JST said:


> *Nice. Verify that those are real LTW wheels, and not replicas (ask if the guy has the original sticker). *


Looking closely at the rims, they appear to have the "///M" stickers in the correct place. They are just off the center roundel and they line up with where the valve stem is.

I looked at THIS pic of my car and they appear to be in the same location.


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

JST said:


> *Listen for the VANOS noise. Ask if the shifter sticks in the 5th gear plane when its cold. *


You are talking to a guy who drives a taurus. What will VANOS noise sound like? The car is a 98 - hopefully it has the fixed transmission.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

zcasavant said:


> *You are talking to a guy who drives a taurus. What will VANOS noise sound like? The car is a 98 - hopefully it has the fixed transmission. *


I haven't heard it (knocking vigorously on wood) so I am not sure, but it is often described as "marbles in a tin can." It should be obvious if you pop the hood with the engine running and listen toward the front of the engine.

Check for coolant leaks around the radiator neck; this is where the upper coolant hose connects to the radiator, on the driver's side of the engine bay. Past coolant leaks will show up as whitish residue.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

zcasavant said:


> *You are talking to a guy who drives a taurus. What will VANOS noise sound like? The car is a 98 - hopefully it has the fixed transmission. *


The only way to have a '98 with the "fixed" transmission would be to have it replaced. The problem STARTED with the part change in '97. But again, this is relatively rare, and if you don't notice it during your test drive I doubt you will experience it later.

Check either the FAQ or bimmerforums.com for some info on the VANOS noise. It's been described as a "can of marbles" sound, but I'm not sure when it is most apparent.

I would not consider a VANOS issue to be a minor fix. It would most likely require a shop or dealer and will run you around $800 - $1000. The fix itself is not complicated but it involves going into the engine.


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

forgot to mention, it still has 9 months of CPO warranty.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

zcasavant said:


> *forgot to mention, it still has 9 months of CPO warranty. *


That's a good thing. CPO will cover things like VANOS, IIRC.


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

JST said:


> *It's a 98; check the headrests in the back. It also looks like Titanium (rather than Arctic) Silver; that would make it a late build 98 (i.e., sometime in calendar year 98, rather than 97). *


It was built in 11/97


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

zcasavant said:


> *It was built in 11/97 *


Huh. Maybe I am wrong about the date of the color changeover (or maybe its Arctic silver, but it sure looks like titanium).


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

JST said:


> *Huh. Maybe I am wrong about the date of the color changeover (or maybe its Arctic silver, but it sure looks like titanium). *


What's the difference?


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

Just found out, it had the transmission replaced under warranty for the sticky 5th gear.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

zcasavant said:


> *Just found out, it had the transmission replaced under warranty for the sticky 5th gear.  *


Ah, great news. So when do you go to check it out?

Don't rush into it, btw. But I do hope you find one soon. Can't let the number of E36 M3 owners drop around here. :eeps:


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *Ah, great news. So when do you go to check it out?
> 
> Don't rush into it, btw. But I do hope you find one soon. Can't let the number of E36 M3 owners drop around here. :eeps: *


I don't intend to rush into it. The guy has ALL the service records, the car appears to be in great shape, and isn't _that_ far from where I live. I am making the 4.5 hour drive on Sunday morning :yikes:

I *will* be an e36 M3 owner in the near future. Just need to find the right one.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

This is Arctic:


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

And this is Titanium:


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

Seeing JST's excellent photo comparison of Arctic Silver and Titanium Silver reminds me that before either of these, there was a period when E36s were available with Arctic Gray (I had a '94 325is in this color); I don't have a comparison in front of me, but if I had to describe Arctic Gray from memory it would be pretty close to the new Silver Gray.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

OK, here's what confuses me:

I just posted pictures of both an Arctic Silver M3C and a Titanium Silver M3C. Thus, the switch in paint must have come sometime after the M3C production began. That happened in early 1998 (I think March). 

So a sedan produced in late 97, by this logic, would have to be Arctic. Yet the car in the pic, clearly built in 11/97, appears to be Titanium. 

Zcasavant, let me know what color that car actually is. I am now intensely curious.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

JST said:


> *OK, here's what confuses me:
> 
> I just posted pictures of both an Arctic Silver M3C and a Titanium Silver M3C. Thus, the switch in paint must have come sometime after the M3C production began. That happened in early 1998 (I think March).
> 
> ...


But you're talking about sedans and convertibles. Paint choices on different versions of the same car aren't always the same. Sometimes changes occur on one line, but it takes a few months before the changes happen on the other line, if they ever happen at all.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

JST said:


> *OK, here's what confuses me:
> 
> I just posted pictures of both an Arctic Silver M3C and a Titanium Silver M3C. Thus, the switch in paint must have come sometime after the M3C production began. That happened in early 1998 (I think March).
> 
> ...


Shouldn't there be a tag under the hood that names the color?


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

JST said:


> *
> Zcasavant, let me know what color that car actually is. I am now intensely curious. *


The sticker says Arctic Silver.


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

I've owned both Arctic and Titanium. Arctic appears to have more gray in it, while Titanium appears to be lighter and has more metallic in it. My 0.02


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## zcasavant (Jun 26, 2002)

Car is pristine. I put down a deposit and, barring unforseen circumstance, I should pick it up this week. Yay!


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

zcasavant said:


> *Car is pristine. I put down a deposit and, barring unforseen circumstance, I should pick it up this week. Yay! *


AWESOME! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

zcasavant, congrats on your purchase man. You won't regret it. If i'm ever in the position to have a multitude of fun cars, I plan to reclaim or suitably substitute the car I'm selling. And if you run into any trouble, or have any questions, there are tons of people all over the internet who can lend an ear and some advice.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2003)

zcasavant said:


> *Car is pristine. I put down a deposit and, barring unforseen circumstance, I should pick it up this week. Yay! *


Congratulations!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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