# e46 M3 vs. 996 911



## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

I'm selling my e90 330i to get more of a "driver's car" and am considering an e46 M3 and a 996 911. Does anyone have first hand experience with each and can give me the pros/cons of each? I have up to $25k to spend. Thanks.


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## SlimKlim (Sep 11, 2008)

E46 M3.

I base this on my completely esoteric personal experiences and opinions. Which I shall describe for you. First of all, its worth noting I'm very particular about my clutches and shifters and throttle responses. There is something about the 996/986 generation of cars that doesn't agree with me. The clutch is long and soft, the shifter linkage is similarly mushy and the throttle is less than exhilarating. Every M3 I've driven is much more sharp and responsive. It sounds stupid when I explain it, its hard to put in words.

Second the appearance. The M3 carries its age much better than the old soft late 90's styling that plagues the 996.










If it was a 996 GT3 or Turbo I'd lean towards the porka, but thats going to be a lot more than $25k. Comparing a stock 996 to a stock M3, the M3 is more sporty, better looking, etc, etc etc.

NOW, if we were talking a Carrera White 997 911S with the aero kit. :yumyum:


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

I'd take a 996 911 over the E46 M3 without hesitation.
-Getz


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## BADRIDES (Apr 24, 2009)

I Agree


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

SlimKlim said:


> E46 M3.
> 
> I base this on my completely esoteric personal experiences and opinions. Which I shall describe for you. First of all, its worth noting I'm very particular about my clutches and shifters and throttle responses. There is something about the 996/986 generation of cars that doesn't agree with me. The clutch is long and soft, the shifter linkage is similarly mushy and the throttle is less than exhilarating. Every M3 I've driven is much more sharp and responsive. It sounds stupid when I explain it, its hard to put in words.
> 
> ...


What are you basing your "M3 is more sporty" off of?

Interesting points about the throttle response and shifting experience. I've driven the e46 M3 but not the 996. One of my complaints about my e90 is that the throttle seems a bit delayed. And although I can feel the damn CDV in action, it doesn't take too much away from the driving experience.

And yes, it would be a non-turbo. However, I definitely don't mind the styling of the 996.


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

They seem pretty closely matched aside from top speed, which I'd never need...

http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/458da861dbf7c-vs-45ca48a8cf8e8.html


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

BlindGoldfish said:


> They seem pretty closely matched aside from top speed, which I'd never need...
> 
> http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/458da861dbf7c-vs-45ca48a8cf8e8.html


The porsche will be faster around a track. However, I would drive both and get what you like. I love the rear engine feel of the 911, and the harshness of the ride. But some people hate it. Give it a spin and see what you think.
-Getz


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

getz said:


> The porsche will be faster around a track. However, I would drive both and get what you like. I love the rear engine feel of the 911, and the harshness of the ride. But some people hate it. Give it a spin and see what you think.
> -Getz


Unfortunately there really aren't many around here that I can go and drive.

How does the rear engine layout affect driving characteristics? I'm also sort of looking at an early model Cayman S with the MR layout.


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

BlindGoldfish said:


> Unfortunately there really aren't many around here that I can go and drive.
> 
> How does the rear engine layout affect driving characteristics? I'm also sort of looking at an early model Cayman S with the MR layout.


You basically have massive grip coming out of a corner with the rearward bias, however, you have to remember not to get heavy on the brakes in the corner or you will do a 180. The feel is very different from a front engine car. I love it, but not everybody does. Not to knock the M3, but the build quality of a 911 is like that of fort knox. The advantage of the 911 is that you can get it with awd and drive it year round if you like as well. I have owned an M car, and the 911 is in a different league.
-Getz


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## 6 Brit (Jan 19, 2009)

getz said:


> I'd take a 996 911 over the E46 M3 without hesitation.
> -Getz


+1000000000 :thumbup:


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

The 911 may be the most over engineered car in the last century. It is like the old W124 mercedes, if you take care of them, they will go for ever.
-Getz


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## Ryan... (Dec 16, 2008)

getz said:


> The 911 may be the most over engineered car in the last century. It is like the old W124 mercedes, if you take care of them, they will go for ever.
> -Getz


I may be incorrect here, but aren't they going to cost a lot more to repair along the way?


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

Ryan... said:


> I may be incorrect here, but aren't they going to cost a lot more to repair along the way?


Assuming the RMS/IMS don't go bad and you need a whole new $10k motor. I have no idea what actual percent of high mileage 996's fail because of that, but I've read enough instances on the interwebz that it is a concern of mine.

Sort of like the HPFP...


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

The RMS thing almost never leads to a new motor, and is easily detected, and generally remedied in the later model 996s, and almost non-existent in the 997s. Service on my 911 Turbo costs pretty similar to that of my 07 M Coupe. Porsche recieved the JD Powers top award for reliability this year, and all in all they generally are bullet proof. If you buy a used Porsche get a good PPI done, paint meter it, don't buy a multiple owner car, and keep it serviced as recommended. 
-Getz


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

getz said:


> The RMS thing almost never leads to a new motor, and is easily detected, and generally remedied in the later model 996s, and almost non-existent in the 997s. Service on my 911 Turbo costs pretty similar to that of my 07 M Coupe. Porsche recieved the JD Powers top award for reliability this year, and all in all they generally are bullet proof. If you buy a used Porsche get a good PPI done, paint meter it, don't buy a multiple owner car, and keep it serviced as recommended.
> -Getz


RMS no, IMS, yes. You have SECONDS to kill the engine after hearing the IMS go before it takes out the whole engine.


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

And the Turbos/GT2/GT3 motors were built much beefier than the 996 motors.


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## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

If you only have $25K to spend on a car, then you can't afford a $25K Porsche... Especially a 996, which evidently are cheap for a reason...

If you had $40K to spend a car, then a $25K Porsche might be okay... 

Just my $0.02.... (former Porsche owner, in a past century)


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

kyfdx said:


> If you only have $25K to spend on a car, then you can't afford a $25K Porsche... Especially a 996, which evidently are cheap for a reason...
> 
> If you had $40K to spend a car, then a $25K Porsche might be okay...
> 
> Just my $0.02.... (former Porsche owner, in a past century)


Well, I have $25k for the car plus a little bit of "discretionary income" I will be setting aside each month for things car-related.

Optimally, I'm looking to spend $20k on the car, plus possibly a warranty (or preventative maintenance).


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## swajames (Jan 16, 2005)

BlindGoldfish said:


> And the Turbos/GT2/GT3 motors were built much beefier than the 996 motors.


True, but you're not spending Turbo/GT2/GT3 money...

The standard 996/997 engines are still solid engines, just not as over-engineered as the GT-based power plant. The 997 engineered out some of the weaknesses re RMS/IMS etc, these were more prevalent in the 996, but ultimately these remain issues that impacted _some_ cars, not _most _cars. As always, internet forums provide a distorted picture to the extent that it is only ever the problems that get posted. Sometimes a car that had such a failure is a good buy as Porsche typically stands behind its product and authorized a new engine. Either way, and as Getz wisely says, a good PPI will be worth its weight in gold.

Did you consider the 993 too? There are some tremendous cars out there.


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

swajames said:


> True, but you're not spending Turbo/GT2/GT3 money...
> 
> The standard 996/997 engines are still solid engines, just not as over-engineered as the GT-based power plant. The 997 engineered out some of the weaknesses re RMS/IMS etc, these were more prevalent in the 996, but ultimately these remain issues that impacted _some_ cars, not _most _cars. As always, internet forums provide a distorted picture to the extent that it is only ever the problems that get posted. Sometimes a car that had such a failure is a good buy as Porsche typically stands behind its product and authorized a new engine. Either way, and as Getz wisely says, a good PPI will be worth its weight in gold.
> 
> Did you consider the 993 too? There are some tremendous cars out there.


I have considered the 930 and 993. For some reason I remember hearing that there was a period in the 90's where Porsche's quality dropped (sort of a "dark ages"). Maybe I am thinking of the 996. I'm a huge fan of the whale tail though as I grew up in the 80's.

I realize the internet can exacerbate problems such as the HPFP and IMS, but the HPFP is covered for 10 years/100k miles and might cost $1000 out of pocket to eventually repair. The IMS goes and you're spending $10k-$15k on a new engine...


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

BlindGoldfish said:


> I have considered the 930 and 993. For some reason I remember hearing that there was a period in the 90's where Porsche's quality dropped (sort of a "dark ages"). Maybe I am thinking of the 996. I'm a huge fan of the whale tail though as I grew up in the 80's.
> 
> I realize the internet can exacerbate problems such as the HPFP and IMS, but the HPFP is covered for 10 years/100k miles and might cost $1000 out of pocket to eventually repair. The IMS goes and you're spending $10k-$15k on a new engine...


The 993's are tanks assuming they have been serviced appropriately. Some can have valve guide issues, etc. The 996 despite its IMS/RMS issues is still most likely more reliable and cheaper to own. The 993's are appreciating in value, and very unlikely to get a nice example in the low 20's. If you are scared by the prospect of an expensive repair, best avoid a Porsche. At some point, something will break (these are machines after all). Of course, the E46 M3 is by no means cheap to repair either.
-Getz


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## MrAdam (Mar 16, 2009)

I personally hate the interior of the 996 it looks so outdated compared to the 997. I also hate the headlights and tail lights. so unless you are getting a turbo I'd go for the M3. But I LOVE the 997 :thumbup:


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## waltwhitman (May 20, 2010)

SlimKlim said:


> Second the appearance. The M3 carries its age much better than the old soft late 90's styling that plagues the 996.
> 
> 
> 
> NOW, if we were talking a Carrera White 997 911S with the aero kit. :yumyum:


:thumbup:


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## ///M3 E93 in LA (Aug 14, 2008)

The 996's can be had for a good deal. However you should be aware that the deal you got, may bite you if the IMS bearing fails which happens to 5% to 10%. If the IMS fails, most likely your engine is toast. There is a bearing retrofit that many 996 owners perform at the time they change the clutch or replace the RMS.

M3 vs 996 is a long ongoing debate. It depends what you will use it for. If it is your daily driver or only car, go with the M3, if it is a second weekend car, go with the 996. See www.lnengineering.com/ims.html

The E9X M3 is a better car then the Porsche hands down. I can personally attest to that. Also, the E9X M3 is better then the 997 Carrera, and probably a push on the Carrera S. GT3 is better hands down.


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## AlboBMW (Feb 5, 2009)

yum


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## Solidjake (May 10, 2007)

911 with the GT2 body kit


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