# BMW Lawsuit



## Named Plaintiff (Jan 6, 2004)

I don't know if any 5 series owners check out the other forums but I think the following thread might be of interest to some of you.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49518

(beware that it is a very long thread with over 100 replies)

I posted a message looking for other 3 series owners that have cars with the same radio defect as I do. I am looking for others to join me in a lawsuit that is about to move forward against BMW.

The reason why I am posting here is that there is reason to believe the defect that was originally believed to only affect 3 Series cars, might also affect 5 Series cars.

The defect primarily occurs in cars equipped with both the BMW Navigation system and the Harmon/Kardon radio. Since 5 Series cars have this same combination (and I am told they are the same units), there is reason to believe that some of you may be affected also.

Please read at least the first post on that thread to see what the problem is.

If you own or lease a 5 series BMW that experiences this fading audio problem, please contact me at [email protected]

I also ask those of you who are not affected to refrain from initiating a flame war. Things got uncivil for a while in the other forum (although now it seems to have settled down), and I would appreciate it if further unpleasantness could be avoided. I am very serious about this and, if you take the time to read through the other thread, you will see why I have proceeded with this course of action. I will add that even some of the people who initially were very hostile to me, eventually have come around to seeing my point of view and why this is necessary.

If I am wrong about it affecting 5 series cars, then just enjoy the thread. If I am right and it affects some of you also, please do contact me.

Named Plaintiff 
[email protected]


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Damn, you sucked me into that (currently 128 post) thread! Very entertaining read. I say if you have the time, effort, guts, and money to pursue this, by all means go for it. In my very limited knowledge of the law (other than what is right and wrong...most of the time!  ), I don't see how you have much alternative other that some sort of lawsuit to solve BMW's intransigence.

I haven noticed nor heard of any such problems in the 5-series but we do not have the HK stereo as a factory option...if that is a main culprit to the problem. We do have issues with AM reception quality, however. Personally, my stereo is fine but I am not a big music nut. In fact, I pulled out my "subwoofer" (cars equipped with the option of "Premium Stereo" or "DSP" have this extra set of speakers) from the lower deck of the car inside the trunk to do something once and I haven't even put it back for about a year or two. I actually like the gain in trunk space without it!! The baby stroller fits MUCH better. 

Good Luck to you and do keep us informed.

Chris


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## Named Plaintiff (Jan 6, 2004)

Update


A 5 Series owner has finally come forward with the same problem. If there are others out there, please let us know.


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## crete (May 16, 2003)

Named Plaintiff said:


> Update
> 
> A 5 Series owner has finally come forward with the same problem. If there are others out there, please let us know.


I don't know if I have the exact problem, but I get lots of static on FM stations which fades in and out as I drive around the bay area. However I noticed the ST (stereo) indicator is usually lit during those times. The static does get annoying after awhile.

Good luck!


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Jeff,

I read your issues on this thread but decided to keep the post over here since you're a 'fiver' guy and that darn thing is quite long. 

I have the seat clunk as well and I'll be darned but SCBMW couldn't reproduce it either however I have an awesome service advisor and he called up one of the mechanics to go on a test drive with me. Well, son of a buck, but with the mechanic in the passenger seat, I couldn't replicate it either. Really PO'ed me. Nice mechanic...he told me that the E60s are doing really well compard to the nightmare the new 7s gave him.

Anway, yesterday, I took a good turn and got the clunk to "activate" again. It had been quiet for a couple of weeks now and it used to NOT take such a "high G" turn to activate the clunk. Now it appears to take a hard turn to get it. Living where you do and knowing your lead foot, it must clunk continuously.

One thing the mechanic thought was that adjusting the seat to its limits on the various switches might do something--kind of a "hard" reset. When I got in my car, the seat was pushed all the way back (probably because they had to replace my cracked footrest). I promptly pushed "1" on the door panel to return it to my settings--couldn't replicate the clunk at all after that.

I have NAV and Premium Sound options on my car and I do not have an intermittent FM radio problem. In fact, the AM reception is fine, too. I also listen primarily to KFOG on 99.7 MHz in San Jose. I think KSJO is one of the stronger signal radio stations in the Bay Area (92.3)...I wonder if you have the same problem with that station? I can pick up KSJO in places where KFOG won't reach.

However, I agree that the NAV is a POS...it is too slow. Lexus is MILES ahead of BMW for stereo, Nav, and general software/electronic gizmos. I dunno, I just think BMW puts more heads/$$$s into the engine, drivetrain, chassis, suspension, etc. than they do with creature comforts like NAV or the stereo system. I dunno how well the new E60 addresses these issues. Per usual, everyone touts the feel/handling of the E60 (duh, its *is* a BMW...it is their trademark) but it is not so with i-drive. Is the NAV any faster in the E60?

Chris


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Ågent99 said:


> Jeff,
> 
> I read your issues on this thread but decided to keep the post over here since you're a 'fiver' guy and that darn thing is quite long.
> 
> ...


That's interesting Chris. I will try to move the seat to it's extremes and see what happens. I can get it to click by pulling out of a parking spot. The scenario is I take a left-ish turn or bend, then a right-ish one, click city. It can be a very slight shift of weight, doesn't require a big turn at high g's. I can feel it in my butt dyno sensor - feels like rails to me, but Weatherford ensures me all of the TSB's have been applied. I've complained at least twice about it, next time will be the 3rd time. I wonder how many times before they will give me a new seat?

I've been living with the FM issue. Next time I'm up to SJ with the car I'll check out the other stations and pay more attention. I took my pick-em-up truck up there last night on a supply run and was able to listen to 98.5 in full stereo nearly half way down Bear Creek from 17 until it started to break up. I can often do that with Live 105 too, and that's a SF station!

And you are right. When I moved into the BMW camp, I wasn't concerned about creature comforts, too much. These days there are minimum comfort requirements we expect in cars of this caliber. The E39 excels in many, many areas. Sad thing is if it were a Honda I could go to Circuit City, spend $99 and probably get a better sounding system than came with it originally. Acura also does a much better job in the Nav dept and their Bose system ain't half bad either - in-dash 6-disc cd changer! I listen to the radio because I never change the discs in the trunk. The UI on their DVD based unit is top notch. I got the nav for a change of pace seeing as my current car is equipped exactly the same as my former, different exterior color is all. It's useful and I'd love it if it were a $200 option.


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## mdernst (Oct 3, 2003)

Same symptoms in my 2003 M5 w/M-Audio. There have been many posts about this problem on the E39 M5 board at roadfly.

BMWNA seems unconcerned.

I did not have this problem in my 98 540i w/NAV and Premium Sound w/DSP.


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

mdernst said:


> Same symptoms in my 2003 M5 w/M-Audio. There have been many posts about this problem on the E39 M5 board at roadfly.
> 
> BMWNA seems unconcerned.
> 
> I did not have this problem in my 98 540i w/NAV and Premium Sound w/DSP.


I'm curious, do you see your "ST" incignia on the display screen flickering on and off when you experience poor reception? Mine seems to be disconnected from the actual reception I'm getting - audibly I hear static indicating a weak signal, however the "ST" doesn't go off.

I seem to remember reading about this way back when. Althought I see the "ST" I wouldn't say what I'm listening to is actually stereo.


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## mdernst (Oct 3, 2003)

jvr530i said:


> I'm curious, do you see your "ST" incignia on the display screen flickering on and off when you experience poor reception? Mine seems to be disconnected from the actual reception I'm getting - audibly I hear static indicating a weak signal, however the "ST" doesn't go off.
> 
> I seem to remember reading about this way back when. Althought I see the "ST" I wouldn't say what I'm listening to is actually stereo.


The ST indicator never wavers - always on even when it's "acting up".


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Ågent99 said:


> One thing the mechanic thought was that adjusting the seat to its limits on the various switches might do something--kind of a "hard" reset. When I got in my car, the seat was pushed all the way back (probably because they had to replace my cracked footrest). I promptly pushed "1" on the door panel to return it to my settings--couldn't replicate the clunk at all after that.
> Chris


Well Chris, I gave this a try yesterday. I adjusted the seat all the way back, up front, and the thigh support too. The seat clunk is still there, but I think my FM reception may have improved. :rofl: Just kidding. Having a passenger doesn't affect the seat click in my car, it's still there no matter how many folks I have in the car.

I've got 1 service bar left, so I'll be making a service appointment somewhere soon. Still can't decide where to take it. Weatherford is quite a trip for me now that I've moved.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Jeff,

My seat hardly clunks anymore (however, I can force it to but it takes a good hard turn) but now the passenger window is creaking when fully rolled up! :rofl: I unrolled it slightly while going to lunch and rolled it back up on the way back to work and it seems fine now. It was definately the glass rubbing against the weather seal...rolling it down a quick click got rid of the noise.

I suggest taking it to Stevens Creek BMW...ask for Jesse as your SA. Jesse really takes care of me and he knows his $hit. If they can't replicate the clunk, he'll call in a mechanic and you can go for a ride and I hope you have better luck than me but for the most part, my clunk is gone.

Chris


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

Ågent99 said:


> Jeff,
> 
> My seat hardly clunks anymore (however, I can force it to but it takes a good hard turn) but now the passenger window is creaking when fully rolled up! :rofl: I unrolled it slightly while going to lunch and rolled it back up on the way back to work and it seems fine now. It was definately the glass rubbing against the weather seal...rolling it down a quick click got rid of the noise.
> 
> ...


Jesse it is then. I'll give him a try. He should be able to see my previous complaints in the system, just hope I don't have to start over again before they do something drastic like give me a new seat.

Do they give you a loaner car? Weatherford hooked me up every time, no matter what the reason I was there. That I like! :thumbup:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

jvr530i said:


> Do they give you a loaner car? Weatherford hooked me up every time, no matter what the reason I was there. That I like! :thumbup:


Yes, you can get a loaner car but most likely it won't be a BMW. I've never requested a BMW loaner car but I am always offered a car for the day. I usually turn them down and just have them give me a lift back to work.

Chris


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## mb (Dec 9, 2002)

I have the intermittent stereo problem as well. Full fledged stereo will fold down to near mono and then go back to full stereo. Doesn't seem to have any relation to signal strength, i.e. proximity to the transmitter. ST light remains on. 2003 530 w/ NAV.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Interesting...interesting. Have you had your dealer work on it at all? Are you going to contact Mr. Named Plaintiff?

Chris


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