# 2013 M5 Residual and money factor



## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

Any word on what these will be???


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## Ty Vil (Dec 19, 2002)

Not yet


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## AMP (May 1, 2002)

My swag says 59% / 24 months or 53% / 36 months at 0.00190 for 15K / year.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

AMP said:


> My swag says 59% / 24 months or 53% / 36 months at 0.00190 for 15K / year.


What's a swag?


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## AMP (May 1, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> What's a swag?


*S*ophisticated *W*ild-*A*ssed *G*uess


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## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

AMP said:


> *S*ophisticated *W*ild-*A*ssed *G*uess


Hope it's a wild guess. I'm hoping for 3 year 12,000 mile residual of 59-61%! Hope i'm not that far off!


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## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

Any one have any update???


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Check back in 10 days... Mid-May.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> Check back in 10 days... Mid-May.


So, any update?

The 17 M5's that are all scheduled to be picked up at Welt on 9/1/12 is making quite the news, especially since they are all getting 1000 to 1500 over ED invoice.


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## cmhsam (Mar 1, 2012)

Stuka said:


> So, any update?
> 
> The 17 M5's that are all scheduled to be picked up at Welt on 9/1/12 is making quite the news, especially since they are all getting 1000 to 1500 over ED invoice.


How do you know the price over ED Invoice?


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

It was probably a group buy on the car. Or it may have been one of those manufacturer specials that the first batch of cars had fixed pricing or some benefit. Something like this - http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/03/scion-fr-s-first-86-get-special-treatment.html


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## cmhsam (Mar 1, 2012)

chrischeung said:


> It was probably a group buy on the car. Or it may have been one of those manufacturer specials that the first batch of cars had fixed pricing or some benefit. Something like this - http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2012/03/scion-fr-s-first-86-get-special-treatment.html


I am one of the 22 people picking up on 9/1


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

OK - now I'm really confused.


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## cmhsam (Mar 1, 2012)

chrischeung said:


> OK - now I'm really confused.


There are now 22 people who are picking up their M5's at the Welt on 9/1. I am one of those 22 people. Unfortunately it sounds like some got better deals than others.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

So it's coincidence rather than a group buy or coordinated marketing effort?


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## cmhsam (Mar 1, 2012)

could be a regional thing


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## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

No, It is not a group buy or a marketing thing. If you are buying a M5 via the ED program, then you should be trying to get to about $1000 above European Delivery INVOICE. if you use bmwconfig.com, you can find the invoice for european delivery. If you go to a dealer and they tell you that you must pay MSRP, then walk away as they are either A. un informed and do not know what they are talking about, or B. trying to take advantage of you and make as much money as they can on you


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## cmhsam (Mar 1, 2012)

I didnt pay MSRP but didnt get as good as a deal


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## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

Sorry to hear it. In the end you'll have an amazing car, so it will all be worth it!


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## cmhsam (Mar 1, 2012)

I got was a fair deal. My CA is great and the service he provides is worth every penny


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

AlBoston said:


> So there goes my dream of another 600/month M3 conv?


Not necessarily. I doubt they just deleted the ED allocation. I would expect they rebalanced allocations for each dealer, giving them more allocations.

Did that in fact happen?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

chrischeung said:


> Not necessarily. I doubt they just deleted the ED allocation. I would expect they rebalanced allocations for each dealer, giving them more allocations.


Buildout of E9X is under way. Historically, production numbers for final-year M3's is invariably lower than previous years.
I wouldn't expect to see a large number of them showing up at ours or any other BMW Center.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> Buildout of E9X is under way. Historically, production numbers for final-year M3's is invariably lower than previous years.


What are M5 allocation numbers looking like? More, less, or about the same historically?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

chrischeung said:


> What are M5 allocation numbers looking like? More, less, or about the same historically?


More than I was expecting to see...

:thumbup:

In fact, some dealers are "selling" their production numbers to other dealers (for a nice profit, of course).

We actually bought a pair, and so now I have available "extra" M5s to order for California buyers to supplement my
current sold orders.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Guys keep in mind there are ONLY 2,700 M5's in total US allocation *including ED.... *


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## jordanM3 (Jun 18, 2004)

2700 is a LOT of cars when you consider it's a 100k sports sedan.

We aren't talking about a Camry here. BMW has sold only 28k 5-Series TOTAL this year, and we know what a small percentage are 550's vs. 535+528. The market for an M5 is even smaller.

I would be very interested to know the top yearly figures for sales of the E60 M5 in the US. I would doubt it ever hit 2700 in a single MY.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

jordanM3 said:


> 2700 is a LOT of cars when you consider it's a 100k sports sedan.


It's not just a 100k sports sedan - it's THE sports sedan.

You may be right that M5 numbers may not have hit comparable highs. But also consider that numbers in the past may have been lower due to restricted supply, rather than low demand. BMW may also have polled their dealers to see how many deposits they have - then decided the allocation accordingly. I doubt there's a big flipping market for this car, but there's always someone with more money than patience.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

chrischeung said:


> BMW may also have polled their dealers to see how many deposits they have - then decided the allocation accordingly.


I can tell you that did not happen. M Brand Manager Matt Russell worked hard to secure ample production for our market.
They (BMWNA) also want healthy dealers, and they know that this is the one model where they can reasonably expect to hold gross (profit)...


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

The reason M5 is now coming out of regular allocation is because some sourgrape west coast dealers pretended to be customers and outted the dealers that were doing 1000 over ED invoice to BMWNA and complained that these ED dealers are killing their margins.

Never mind that someone willing to wait a few months plus going to Europe to get an M5 is NOT the same person who would walk into a dealership and pay 15K over sticker.

This was all over the new new m5 board. 

I was planning on lease transferring the CTSV wagon 6 speed and get on the 1000 over ED invoice gravy train, but I guess I can wait till the lease is up in 2 years when I can get better deal on the M5 like the killer deal I got on the E90 M3.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Stuka said:


> The reason M5 is now coming out of regular allocation is because some sourgrape west coast dealers pretended to be customers and outted the dealers that were doing 1000 over ED invoice to BMWNA and complained that these ED dealers are killing their margins.
> 
> Never mind that someone willing to wait a few months plus going to Europe to get an M5 is NOT the same person who would walk into a dealership and pay 15K over sticker.
> 
> ...


Stuka, sorry to stray off topic, but why do you have a Norske flagg as your avatar if you don't mind sharing?


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Stuka said:


> The reason M5 is now coming out of regular allocation is because some sourgrape west coast dealers pretended to be customers and outted the dealers that were doing 1000 over ED invoice to BMWNA and complained that these ED dealers are killing their margins.


Are you sure that is the only reason? The 1M coupe came out of dealer allocation as well. Plus other cars in the past. I'm just thinking that the complaints from the dealers was only one of the consideration points, not the only one in making the decision. I would seriously doubt that BMW hasn't been on this board, didn't know that folks have been getting $500-$2500 over ED invoice on their whole range of cars, and that it was news to them. In fact, the main driver in my mind would probably be the high demand, relative to supply.

I think the approach of posing as a customer is underhanded, and probably unnecessary. But I don't fault the dealers for complaining about the allocation policy. They run a business, and they have every right to maximize profitability the best way they see fit. In the long run, supply and demand will prevail - just look at prices for cars that aren't available for ED - there are plenty of cars in the market going for around invoice or less, and some going for MSRP or more.

Here's one thought. If BMW listened to the dealer complaints, shouldn't the dealers just request that ALL cars come out of regular allocation and not just the M5?


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> Stuka, sorry to stray off topic, but why do you have a Norske flagg as your avatar if you don't mind sharing?


In support of the Norwegians when they had their shooting tragedy last year, just never took it down.

Anyway, back to F10 M5. I am still itching for a low mile mint 03 M5, but with the NADA so low, I will have to put 15K or more down on a 40K car.

Considering that will be about what I would end up paying for the F10 M5 monthly lease payments for a year, I had to pull the plug on the E39 M5 search.

I would up with a 14K mile 06 M3 ZCP stick shift, will post some pictures later.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Stuka said:


> In support of the Norwegians when they had their shooting tragedy last year, just never took it down.
> 
> Anyway, back to F10 M5. I am still itching for a low mile mint 03 M5, but with the NADA so low, I will have to put 15K or more down on a 40K car.
> 
> ...


Ahh.... Congrats on the purchase.

It's a freaky coincidence that the recent Colorado shooting occurred roughly on the one year anniversary of the Norwegian massacre.


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## iczer34 (Jan 17, 2003)

Jon Shafer said:


> Al, the 550 is not a M5. When they (BMWNA) artificially inflate residuals it requires marketing money. With the limited production of M5 one would not reasonably expect Sales Support (i.e., dumping money into to deal) for BMW to move them. What they do with standard models has no bearing on ///M's, unless, God forbid, the economy completely tanks all over again and dealers have M5s clogging up the driveways.


Jon - not sure if you recall back in the summer of 2007, BMW had the M5 Power Lease program with high residuals and low MF.

I was able to pick up an '07 E60 M5 at 73% residual with a .0015 MF! It was an insane deal that was a no-brainer for me. Monthly payments with sales tax was $940 :thumbup:

Here's to hoping that a similar deal comes out for the F10 M5....one could dream again!


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

iczer34 said:


> Here's to hoping that a similar deal comes out for the F10 M5....one could dream again!


You need to dream bigger. Say you're saving $300 per month. A 3 year lease would only save you about $11K give or take. Something like winning the Powerball.


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## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

iczer34 said:


> Jon - not sure if you recall back in the summer of 2007, BMW had the M5 Power Lease program with high residuals and low MF.
> 
> I was able to pick up an '07 E60 M5 at 73% residual with a .0015 MF! It was an insane deal that was a no-brainer for me. Monthly payments with sales tax was $940 :thumbup:
> 
> Here's to hoping that a similar deal comes out for the F10 M5....one could dream again!


OMF I would be in heaven!!!! that's a ridiculous residual and MF combo!!!!!!!!!!


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## LeMansX5 (Sep 27, 2004)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Guys keep in mind there are ONLY 2,700 M5's in total US allocation *including ED.... *


2700 for what period of time? For MY 2013?


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## mikeriley (Mar 20, 2008)

don't let all this talk of "the deals" not being there again. Its not true. I have been hearing this over and over from salespeople for years. But yet, the M5, M3, Z4, 750h deals all still pop up and will continue to do so. Sure, there is no way that the M5 will be even remotely a good lease now, but in a year or two when it slows down the deals will be there, especially at 100k and certainly since its reviews versus its peers have been poor. just my 2cents.


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## Rohardi (Aug 7, 2011)

If its any indication, my local dealer has had an M6 convertible in their showroom for over a month. These $100K+ cars aren't nessisaraly flying off dealers lots. I think once the initial interest dries up for th M5, they will have some deals to boost sales...


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## jordanM3 (Jun 18, 2004)

mikeriley said:


> don't let all this talk of "the deals" not being there again. Its not true. I have been hearing this over and over from salespeople for years. But yet, the M5, M3, Z4, 750h deals all still pop up and will continue to do so. Sure, there is no way that the M5 will be even remotely a good lease now, but in a year or two when it slows down the deals will be there, especially at 100k and certainly since its reviews versus its peers have been poor. just my 2cents.


I wouldn't say the reviews are "poor"....it's just that Mercedes, Audi, etc. are also building wonderful cars in that class. There just isn't a huge gap between the M5 and it's competition like there was with the E39 model.


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## poncekim (Sep 2, 2006)

iczer34 said:


> Jon - not sure if you recall back in the summer of 2007, BMW had the M5 Power Lease program with high residuals and low MF.
> 
> I was able to pick up an '07 E60 M5 at 73% residual with a .0015 MF! It was an insane deal that was a no-brainer for me. Monthly payments with sales tax was $940 :thumbup:
> 
> Here's to hoping that a similar deal comes out for the F10 M5....one could dream again!


I also leased an 07 during that sale. The reason for the sale was to get rid of the 6 speeds sitting on the dealer lots before the 08s came in. BMW just happened to include the remaining smgs in the sale as well.

That said I thnk you will definitely see much lower lease prices in a year or two. The new m5 just looks too similar to a 535/550 with M kit to command such a premium and there is a lot more competition now as someone else mentioned.


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