# My experience with BMWNA



## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

This has t odo with my personal complaint regarding the firm lumbar support and overall crappy std. seat..I am not sure what I wanted but hoped they would show some concern and desire to find a solution to my problem...Mind you I would pay at this point some money to fix the seat or swap seats but not $6000 as I have seen for new seats

I have contacted BMWNA and have found them to be useless...I emailed first regarding my lumbar stiffness issue..they said speak to dealer

I spoke to Service Manager...She says I quote...Lumbar is stiff..are you having back pain?

Me: Yes I am..

Service Manager: Yea we have had issue with these seats..(std seat in the E39)

Me: what can we do?

Service Manager: not much.. I will look into it....

So I call BMWNA today...I speak with John...we go through the scenario...I bought car in July 2003.. I wanted comfort seats ..other options supposedly car does not exist on lots around..so I buy an inventory car
He says why did you not order lumbar adjustment..I say they were not taking any orders. 
So what can be done..well I can call you dealer and try to help..How?
I do not know?

I ask to speak with his supervisor and he refuses..we go around again...

Basically nothing..I never got rude or yelled but my frustration was clear John says how sympathetic he is, yet he has no technical knowledge, no power, no solutions

When I say ...I guess BMW does not feel a long term relationship with me as a customer is important since they have no way to assist me when I am having a problem. IMHO, basically BMW makes the car but has no interest in making sure the customer is satisfied. He says of course we do...speak to the dealer.

I then say at this point I see no reason to ever purcahse another BMW as a result of a total lack of concern for my issue as a customer as I can not drive the car with back and leg pain. 
The service reps. comment as how can I feel the product is bad just because the seat is not good for my "body" and why would I label all their products as bad..He indicate the car is fine and I should not be concerned

He also adds the seat is fine as they having been making it to the same specs in all cars with no variance for 7yrs and it is fine...

I say your kidding right?...The car is 3 months old I am having pain and can not drive it..it is a car remember that is what it is for...

Jeez....

Yes I will never buy another BMW at this point..no other car I have ever owned had such a poor seat...

Sad thing is I love the car's performance but at this point driving it is literally painful....

In fact I am seriously considering getting rid of it.....

I did not even get into the issue with a cd swap for casette and lack of knowledge by the dealer that this would prevent sat radio and that there was an aux audio adapter I could have used to hook up a casette without getting rid of the cd.... 


Anyone want to buy a 2003 530i with 3000 miles..LOL


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## Saintor (Dec 14, 2002)

Sorry to be rude, but get over your obsession. It is not that bad.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

FWIW... BMWNA probably could help you, but you have to know what you want. You have to clearly explain what you would like them to do. Just having them call the dealer to discuss that your lumbar is too stiff is wasting everyones time including yours. Have you offered them an alternative? I see that you are asking for "comfort seats" but do they even exist or are you asking them to make you a special seat? Maybe if you find out the part number of the seat that you want and give that to them, it will help. The guys who answer the phone at BMWNA are not engineers. They are there to act as a conduit for you once you provide a potential solution. I too had issues with BMWNA but after backing off and becoming much more detailed in my request, they helped right away... less than two weeks from email to install. It sounds like you "settled" for a car that did not have what you wanted from the beginning... maybe I am wrong, but that is how I interpreted your post. For that reason, you cannot hold them accountable. It could be compared to calling BMWNA and telling them you purchased a 530 but it does not accelerate like the M5 you wanted. 
Work with them and they will work with you.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

*I agree*

I assume you test drove the car before you bought it. If the seats were not comfortable during the test drive, why did you buy the car? If the "off the lot" car did not meet your needs and you could not order the car with the required feature, why didn't you just pass on the car.

Your two options now are either change the car or change the seat. Neither option is cheap though and I don't think BMW will bail you out.


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## lsedels (Jul 12, 2003)

To adgrant ... you cannot know how a seat will affect your back with a simple test drive ... you have to sit in the seat for a longer period of time.

To nealh, see my thread http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38445.

BMWNA reps are not very often useful. They are not empowered, and I also had been refused when I asked to speak to a manager. Absolutely despicable behavior and not customer-sat oriented at all.

Good luck.


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## mottati (Apr 15, 2003)

when i bought my wife her 02 525iT with sport prem package, she initially complained about the lumber in the sports seats hitting her in the wrong place. It eventually made her back hurt. My 98 528 has comfort seats, which she loved. I looked into swapping the seats, but the wiring had changed between 98 and 02. I eventually worked with her on her seat adjustment, and we were able to adjust the seat so that it worked just fine.

I did go and speak with my salesperson, he told me, if my 98 to 02 swap didn't work, and we couldn't get the seats adjusted so that she was comfortable, they would allow us to swap our sports seats for another car with standard seats, not comfort seats however. I agree, calling bmwna and talking with one of their phone people is next to worthless. they have extremely limited product knowledge, and absolutely no technical knowledge. 

Have you started with your saleperson? Have you asked to swap seats, offering, of course, to pay the labor and any additional charge (i.e. comfort seats are a $1200 option). If you have sports seats, have you posted on the various message boards to see if someone wants to trade either comfort or std seats? 
I would be surprised if any other premium auto company would do more than my dealer offered, it's not like they'll give you your money back after a 3 month test drive! It does sound like your dealer hasn't been too helpful however...
Mike


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

From the stand point of the seat...I did test drive a the car but the sensations when driving a new car can be overwhelming..obviously if I knew the seat was an issue I would not have bought the car...I did settle but felt some thing were ok and not 100% necessary...

So please do not say did you drive the car and sit in it...

This not helpful but makes me feel like a moron

I drove several BMWs, Audi, Lexus cars it is hard to pick up on everything...I did not notice the issue until several weeks and then tinkered with sitting position to fix it first...

I am not asking for a free fix..just a fix..I would happily pay the difference for an optional seat..for ex.. if comfort seats cost $1200 I would pay that since I got them on the car I would have had to pay for it......

I had no idea what would be reasonable...In the case of my cd and casette issue I have offered to buy aftermarket parts and pay labor if they "return" the cd..I am not asking for anything free and the dealer is considering my offer but he is not sure the Aux. adapter will do what a I want...the sad thing is they have no idea...

The parts people say the aux. adapter will only work with a MP3 player...ther is no recommend player just a player..it has to do with a connector from the aux adapter to another connector that will plug into the MP3...like a 2.5mm plug..so I doubt this is mp3 specific

Anyway..I am not blaming the dealer for the seat ..I just want help...

Not there is nothing we can do...


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

BTW..I finally got the seat back cover off..the plastic thing with the pocket...

I went to hardware store and found three springs and have reduce d the the tension on the firm spring enormously...not perfect and I will try a smaller spring if I can find it

But at least I took off the cover and have tried..the service dept. did nothing

Let me tell ...numbness in my leg and back pain is no fun...

Remember I never asked for anything free...just help and suggestions and I did try with service first and was not the first person t obring this up...


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

nealh said:


> BTW..I finally got the seat back cover off..the plastic thing with the pocket...
> 
> I went to hardware store and found three springs and have reduce d the the tension on the firm spring enormously...not perfect and I will try a smaller spring if I can find it
> 
> ...


The fix is good but stil la bit stiff..I wonder if I call BMWNA back and ask to buy comfort seats if they would do this I pay what the option cost plus labor...when I told the guy the seat was like $6K..he was speechless


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Make sure before you call them back, you have a very clear explanation of what it is that you want and what it is that you expect of them. If your "4:37pm" post above is any example of how you are communicating with them, good luck on even getting them to understand the question. Kinda like pitching a presentation to the boss... DUMB IT DOWN. I am not saying that the BMWNA guys are dummies, but if that was all you did all day, who you gonna help... the one that is very clear and easy to understand so you can cross that off your metrics chart right away, or are you going to spend 4 hours just dechiphering what the guy wants. I would also separate the issues... just call them back and start a new conversation ONLY regarding the seats. Once you get that done, move on to your audio issue.
Good Luck Man!!!


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

I never brought up the audio issue.

I made it very simple initially the lumbar is too stiff is there any help I can get...but as I said I had no idea what to ask for.

I had hoped they might suggest something t oask the dealer/service manager...I was at a loss as I had no idea what could be fixed.

I never thought I would get new seats or all the work for free. 

I realize I am in the minority but I am not the only person several on this board and others have said they had the same problem.

A car seat is a funny thing you need time in it to get a feel for it..a long trip not a short test drive will tell all. To me this is no different than asking the mto fix a part that gives out...is that really a big thin no but on an expensive car people ask


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Where in FL are you located? There is nothing wrong with asking... just make sure the other side understands what you are asking for.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Is there any chance you could get a doctor to help you out?

Do you have chronic back pain...you know, in general? Not just in the car?

I bought one of those new air-beds (Select Comfort) about 4 years ago and it took me about 3-5 weeks before I got it adjusted right and could wake up with no back pain. It was a very frustrating 3-5 weeks considering all the crap they touted about these "revolutionary" beds. Now I love it.

Keep your eyes/ears open for anyone with Comfort seats. Since you have the standard seats, I think it'll be tough for you to find someone with Comfort willing to swap with you. Troll the wreaking yard websites (anyone?) for wrecked 2001+ E39s (I think 2001 and up will work for you...maybe 2000 but I'm not sure) and cross your fingers that they have what you want. Remember, seat color isn't terribly important as you could get the seats dyed.

Good luck and keep working on the adjustments.

Chris


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Is there any chance you could get a doctor to help you out?
> 
> Do you have chronic back pain...you know, in general? Not just in the car?
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris..no chronic back pain..

I found a $6 fix..I used 3 strong springs to pull the lumbar spring away..now it is much better..I will tinker a bit..

Neal


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

DougDogs said:


> Neal, maybe it is too late to ask this, or think of this, but did you take any pictures of what you did to your seat???
> 
> I would think that others here might be interested in your "fix"


I believe you can find this 'tip' at www.bmwtips.com under tips 'n tricks.

Chris


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> I believe you can find this 'tip' at www.bmwtips.com under tips 'n tricks.
> 
> Chris


No but I can ..

BMWtips was helpful but it was not clear what the problem was till I got seat back off

IMHO..the seat back does not need to come off the seat bottom..just the plastic seat back

I will shoot some pics and post them later


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## 1RADBMR (Sep 24, 2003)

nealh said:


> No but I can ..
> 
> BMWtips was helpful but it was not clear what the problem was till I got seat back off
> 
> ...


When I was considering the purchase of my BMW, I lurked on another forum (there was no Bimmerfest.com at the time) for months to determine how owners felt about their cars. Seat selection was a very common topic: standard vs. sport vs. comfort. I paid very close attention to those discussions, and ultimately chose the standard seating with the adjustable lumbar (an option at the time). Either my saleman or BMW bobbled the order, and the car was delivered without the adjustable lumbar. I accepted delivery anyway, and have never missed the adjustable lumbar. The standard seat lumbar curve is quite prominent, and I can understand how some would not be comfortable, but it seems to fit my lumbar curve perfectly. Neal, the point of this is that many of us did extensive research, before we bought the car, so you may not get alot of sympathy here. Having said that, I very much admire your DIY spirit in resolving the problem. That WILL play very well with your fellow BMW enthusiasts.

I would also like to share my own experience with BMWNA. I do not, evidently, put as many miles on my 530 in a year as the BMW maintenance program assumes. So...after 12 months, my oil service lights had not yet come on. In researching the various oil manufacturer sites, I could not find a single one that recommended going beyond 12 months without an oil change. I brought my 530 to my dealer for an oil change, and they wanted to charge me $112, even though still under the maintenance program, because the lights were not on yet. I called BMWNA, while the car was still in for service, and got a call from my service writer an hour later letting me know there would be no charge for the oil change.

Welcome to the forum...


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Nice job on the fix--- sounds better than the toilet pluger solution on bmwtips. FWIW, i had the oppostie problem w/ my e46 sport seats-- I was in pain because there wasn't enough lumbar. So, I installed an adjustable lumbar support and its much better. BTW, the e39 std seats fit me perfectly-- i've never sat in a more comfortable seat-- I rented on in Europe and drove it 5 hours w/ absolutely no pain. BMW should just make a flatter seat back and include adjustable lumbar on all cars-- and be done w/ it.

BTW, i'm not sure that opting for the comofrt seats or the adjustbale lumbar support on the std seats would've helped you. They all use the same frame and seat foam. So, w/ the adjustable lumbar at its minimum setting- its going to feel like your seats-- and then you can only increase it from there (which isn't what you'd want). I think your $6 solution is probably the best solution.


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Saintor said:


> Sorry to be rude, but get over your obsession. It is not that bad.


I've got another one, how about just buy a ReCaro driver side Seat that will fit your need and be done w/ it?? :dunno: You certainly can't blame BMW NA for your eagerness in buying a car. What you should've done is to order a car and wait for it. All this talk about how BMW doesn't care about their custumer is just a bunch of Horse Shit. You are trying to pin your ignorance onto someone else. That is not fair.

just my 2 cents,

beewang :bigpimp:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

beewang said:


> I've got another one, how about just buy a ReCaro driver side Seat that will fit your need and be done w/ it?? :dunno: You certainly can't blame BMW NA for your eagerness in buying a car. What you should've done is to order a car and wait for it. All this talk about how BMW doesn't care about their custumer is just a bunch of Horse Shit. You are trying to pin your ignorance onto someone else. That is not fair.
> 
> just my 2 cents,
> 
> beewang :bigpimp:


Speaking of Horse Shit...get your damn sig pic in order...know the diff between a row and a column? :tsk:

Chris :wave:


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Speaking of Horse Shit...get your damn sig pic in order...know the diff between a row and a column? :tsk:
> 
> Chris :wave:


The adj lumbar I am sure would work since I doubt the tight spring(you have to see it) would be there with an adjust lumbar mechanism.

Listen I am not blaming BMWNA..you gus who are so critical are missing the point..I found a very simple solution to the problem..would it have not bee more appropriate to get some assistance not there is nothing that can be done... I admit I should have had some idea as to what would have been acceptable to me..but I was unsure...

I expect more service from a luxury end auto dealer.

Beewang..I would bet if you had an issue and got a poor repsonse you would think differently...I see no reason for such a neagative response.

BTW...I am not the only one who has had an issue with the seat being too firm...


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