# Itin Critique, Thoughts etc: Father-Son Vaca (335d): Sept 6-14



## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok Folks,
Would love everyone's input and suggestions on this itin for early Sept. My Dad and I will be picking up my 335d (w/iDrive, Msport, loaded) on Sept 6th (2PM). This will be your typical Father-Son "bonding" vacation with a heavy theme around driving (80% driving; 20% site seeing). :thumbup:

*Some background on us:*
Dad: Age: 68 and was stationed in Germany (US Army) during the Vietnam "Conflict" in the late 60's and hasn't been back to Germany since 1970. He's fairly active, but hasn't done much int'l travel since being in the Army.

Me: Age 38 and work in the High-tech industry. Have travelled to Munich and Germany over 20 times in the last 4 years for business. Munich is one of my "2nd homes" and I know it well. I've been to the Welt over a dozen times and have done the 3-series mfg tour twice (last one in 2009). It wasn't until this past December (on my last trip to the Welt), that I decided an ED was in my future. And I've visited lots of other tourist-y sites in the surrounding areas: Salzburg, Innsbruck, Stubai Glacier (spring skiing), Hitlers' Eagle's Nest, Strausbourg (France), Augsburg, downtown Munich, Neuschwanstein Castle ***8211; done it, seen it, been there, drove there etc***8230;.......etc.  I/we have no interest in seeing these places again (the one exception being Neu. Castle for a quick tour and photo "op"). Also, I'm not really concerned with the jetlag on Day 1 ***8211; as we are only driving 2 hours down to Fussen and I'm used to the acclimation period for Munich.

Day 5 will be our longest trek (Andermatt up the Black Forest to Heidleberg) and I'm still trying to figure out how to make it work; we might need to stay in Zurich that night and drive the Black Forest route in the early morning. Not sure yet....

Also, I used most of the BimmerFest ED Wiki and other Festers' itins to build this schedule. But this site (Top Ten Drives in EU) was a great resource. FYI - we're planning to hit 6 or 7 of their Top 10; not sure why Grossglockner wasn't included. 
http://www.ultimatedrives.net/routes/best_driving_routes.php

*Day 0.5 ***8211; Flight to MUC:*
9AM: Arrive at MUC airport and get to Welt around 11AM-ish; Eat a late breakfast and late lunch in the lounge, chill out, relax maybe walk around the 1st floor area to see what's changed in the last 9 months. 

*Day 1 - Tuesday, Sept 6th (2PM Pickup for 335d!!)*
*Hotel:* Hotel Sonne ***8211; Fussen (Booked!)
*Sites:* Welt, Museum, BMW Niederlassung Munich (Dealer), Get Vignettes for Switz/Austria from ADAC service center near Welt, hit downtown Fussen for dinner (Pizzaria al Pescatore); go to bed early.
*Drive time(s):* Welt > Fussen (2 hours)

*Day 2 - Wed, Sept 7th: (Castle, Flexenpass and Silvretta Hochalpenstrasse Day!)*
*Hotel:* Depart Hotel Sonne / check-in to Edelweiss Hotel
*Sites:* Morning at Neuschwanstein Castle, take some pix and depart after lunch to Davos via Flexenpass and then swing around and cut through the Silvretta Hochalpenstrasse toll road (which could be optional) ***8211; with the possibility of grabbing dinner in Liechtenstein *(any recommendations?).*
*Drive time(s):* Fussen > Davos (via Flexenpass, Silvretta Hochalpenstrasse and Liechtenstein) (3-4 hours; done in two chunks)
(FYI ***8211; We plan to use Davos as our base for Day 2 and Day 3)

*Day 3 - Thursday, Sept 8th: (Flüela and Stelvio pass Day!)*
*Hotel:* Edelweiss Hotel - Davos (Booked!)
*Sites:* Head out of Davos after breakfast, drive through the Flüela-Pass enroute to Merano, Italy (via Bormio and then Stelvio). I don't think we'll drive all the way to Merano, but this will allow us to do both sides of Stelvio and then come back to Davos later in the day.
*Drive time(s):* Davos > Merano, Italy (2.5 hours; each way). Of course, our mileage may vary***8230;....... 

*Day 4 - Friday, Sept 9th: (San Bernardino and Fukra Pass Day!)*
*Hotel:* Depart Edelweiss Hotel / check-in to Hotel Badus (Andermatt, Switzerland) - Booked!
*Sites:* Drive from Davos to San Bernardino Pass (yeah, too bad I can't approach it from the South), then to Fukra Pass (stopping at the Belvedere Hotel) and maybe take a break and see the Rhone Glacier. Then complete the Fukra pass (while humming the Goldfinger theme song) and staying in Andermatt for the night. We might hit St Gotthard Pass that day as well; it's just south of Andermatt but the youtube footage of it doesn't look that great. *Thoughts?*
*Drive time(s):* Davos > Andermatt (3-4 hours)

*Day 5 - Sat, Sept 10th: (Depart Switz and Drive the Black Forest / B500 Route!)*
*Hotel:* Depart Hotel Badus (Andermatt, Switzerland) / *check-in to Zurich or Triberg Hotel (any recommendations?)*
*Sites:* Drive from Andermatt, swing through Lucerne, then to Zurich (for lunch etc) then up to Heidelberg (where my Dad was stationed during the Korean war). Not sure if we will have time to stop in Frieburg or not; Baden-Baden might be more interesting. This will be a long day in the car, but necessary so we can have a full-day in Heidelberg. *Enroute to Zurich we have the option to stop off in Lucerne before we get to Zurich for lunch OR drive the Klausen Pass to Zurich. The time frame is about the same. Thoughts, ideas? Maybe we stay in Zurich, or Triberg or Baden-Baden vs. Heidelberg; not sure yet***8230;........*
*Drive time(s):* 7-ish hours (done in 2 or 3 chunks); Andermatt > Lucerne (1 hour); Lucerne > Zurich (1 hour); Zurich > Waldshut, Germany (1 hour); Waldshut > Triberg (1.5 hours); Triberg > Baden-Baden (1.5 hours); Baden-Baden > Heidelberg (1 hour). Phew***8230;........that's a busy day!!

*Day 6 - Sun, Sept 11th: (Heidelberg and Hockenheimring Track Day!)*
*Hotel:* Depart Triberg etc / check-in to Am Tiergarten (Booked!)
*Sites:* Spend day in Heidelberg and revisit my Dad's Army Days. We'll also plan to head over to Hockenheimring and watch some of the driver training etc (no driving on this track for us!). My Dad was at the track in April '68 when Jim Clark suffered that fatal crash. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Clark. Drive to Nurburg after an early dinner. Likely have dinner at Pistenklause (Got steak on a hot stone?!?!)
*Drive time(s):* Heidleberg > Nurburgring (2 hours)

Hockenheim Ring info:
http://www.hockenheimring.net/en

*Day 7 ***8211; Monday, Sept 12th: (Nurburgring Track Day!!)*
*Hotel:* AM Tiergarten (Booked!)
*Sites:* The Ring will be open for tourist access from Noon ***8211; 5:30PM. We might see the castle in the AM. *Anything else worth doing?* Will likely do 6-8 laps on the Ring. *Any recommendations for dinner besides the Pistenklause?*
*Drive time(s):* Hopefully, I can manage one lap at under 11 minutes. We'll see***8230;....... :thumbup:

Official Nurburgring Calendar for "Tourist Rides" on the Track:
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angeb...-nordschleife/opening-times-nordschleife.html

*Day 8 - Tuesday, Sept 13th: (Porsche Museum / Buffer Day!)*
*Hotel:* Depart Nurburgring / *Stay in Stuttgart (any hotel recommendations?)*
*Sites:* Depart Nurburg in the AM and stop in Stuttgart to visit Porsche Museum (Unfortunately, we weren't able to secure a Factory Tour; oh well***8230;.......). We could stay in Stuttgart that night or drive straight to Munich. We could also spend a few hour in Baden-baden.....
*Drive time(s):* Nurburg > Stuttgart (3 hours)

*Day 9 - Wed, Sept 14th (Departure Day!)*
*Hotel:* Depart Stuttgart hotel in the AM
*Sites:* Drive straight to Munich Airport; maybe stop in Ismaning to see some work colleagues for an early lunch. Drop off the 335d at Munich airport by 1PM and check in for our 3PM flight back to BOS.
*Drive time(s):* Stuttgart > Munich Airport (2 hours)

Also, here is the *Google map/route* that we put together. It's color-coded with route passes, tourist sites and our current hotel bookings.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?authuser=0&vps=1&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=209481694888185281867.0004a9ea49a4ad763c18c

*Color code key:*
Red = Tourist POI
Green = Popular Driving Pass(es)
Yellow = Hotel Destinations
Blue = Navigation stops

*Mileage Stats (per Google Maps):*
Distance: 2,376 km (1500 miles)
Time: 30 hours of total driving (not including the 13 miles/lap on the Ring)
Estimated fuel cost: $425 (300 Euros); price based on 1.4 Euros per litre of diesel. :thumbup:

Ok, I think that covers it. Thanks in advance for everyone's input and recommendations.

Cheers,
-Ted


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## 97X (Sep 19, 2007)

TeddyBGame said:


> *Day 3 - Thursday, Sept 8th: (Flüela and Stelvio pass Day!)*
> *Hotel:* Edelweiss Hotel - Davos (Booked!)
> *Sites:* Head out of Davos after breakfast, drive through the Flüela-Pass enroute to Merano, Italy (via Bormio and then Stelvio). I don't think we'll drive all the way to Merano, but this will allow us to do both sides of Stelvio and then come back to Davos later in the day.
> *Drive time(s):* Davos > Merano, Italy (2.5 hours; each way). Of course, our mileage may vary&#8230;


Davos to Merano will be considerably longer than 2.5 hours. We went from Livigno, Italy to Davos and that alone took 1.5 hours. And this was early morning (i.e., no traffic). Add at least another 1.5 hours just to get from Livigno --> Bormio --> Up Stelvio --> Down Stelvio, especially if you want to stop and take photos (which you will). I imagine Merano would be at least another hour from the base of Stelvio.



TeddyBGame said:


> *Day 8 - Tuesday, Sept 13th: (Porsche Museum / Buffer Day!)*
> *Hotel:* Depart Nurburgring / *Stay in Stuttgart (any hotel recommendations?)*
> *Sites:* Depart Nurburg in the AM and stop in Stuttgart to visit Porsche Museum (Unfortunately, we weren't able to secure a Factory Tour; oh well&#8230. We could stay in Stuttgart that night or drive straight to Munich. We could also spend a few hour in Baden-baden.....
> *Drive time(s):* Nurburg > Stuttgart (3 hours)


We stayed at the Marriott in Sindelfingen, which is about 20 minutes outside of Stuttgart. The advantage is that it's close to the Mercedes factory (you may want to try and arrange a tour there - much easier to secure than Porsche). However, I'm not really sure I would recommend this hotel to anyone unless: 1) they wanted to be close to the MB factory; and/or 2) they wanted to earn Marriott loyalty credit. The hotel was old and not up to US-based Marriott standards.

If you plan on staying in Stuttgart, I understand the Le Meridien is quite nice, but cannot speak from experience.

All that being said, I must say that we were rather disappointed in Stuttgart. We found it gray, industrial and somewhat depressing. I would not stay there again unless mandated by my itinerary.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Looks like a great itin for a couple of guys and similar to one I may have done had I not had toddler in tow. There's always next time. You will love the 335d on those mountain roads!


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## neurom (Jan 16, 2005)

Looks like a well thought out plan. Only comment I have that may help is that I went to Baden-Baden and did not think it was that big of a deal, unless you are into soaking skin naked in mineral waters with strangers and your father. Heidelberg may have more to offer, a University town, but I have not been there. I wish you the best in your trip. I will be heading back when you start.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

If you don't want to drive all the way to Meran (which is a fabulous city) then you could stop in Schluderns, which is much much smaller, and very quaint.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schluderns


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## stonemik (Jun 19, 2011)

TeddyBGame said:


> *Day 5 - Sat, Sept 10th: (Depart Switz and Drive the Black Forest / B500 Route!)*


may see ya - if our route holds up will be on the B500 on the same day


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

97x, Me530, Neurom, 
Thanks for the tips on Stelvio, Stuttgart, Heidleberg and Baden-Baden. We still need to book our hotels for Day 5 (and 6). Not sure yet.....

Cheers,
-Ted


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

I have fond memories of Heidelberg. It was the very first night in Europe I ever spent. Plus they let my 17-year old self walk in to a grocery store and buy beer because as the lady working the checkout explained in broken English "I looked tall".


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

If anybody needs a place to stay in the Schluderns area, I recommend Hotel Gufler.

http://www.holidaycheck.com/hotel-travel+information_Hotel+Gufler-hid_80104.html


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## djafactor (Jul 21, 2011)

Nice itinerary. I'll be there around the same time Sept 7th-14th bonding with my father. I'm 33 and he is turning 65. Last time we were in Germany together I was 7. Our itineraries are pretty similar so we should be crossing paths at the ring on the 12th and stuttgart on the 13th. Look out for a AW 1M. 

Cheers

Amit


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

We took the funicular train in Baden-Baden and very much enjoyed the view from the top if the mountain. Definitely worth the time if you are in the area...


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

bump!


Hows the planning, Ted? 


GoogleMaps? Check!
GoPro? Check! x3? Check!Check!Check! 
Biergartens scoped out? Check!
Alpine passes loaded? Check!
Adult Diaper for the ring? Check! 

gonna be great


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## SANguru (Jun 14, 2009)

I stayed at the Pullman Hotel in Stuttgart. Great buffet breakfast and the room was big and comfortable. Underground parking had very big spaces and only 16 euros.


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

NateXTR said:


> We took the funicular train in Baden-Baden and very much enjoyed the view from the top if the mountain. Definitely worth the time if you are in the area...


That's a great idea. Will add it to our list of things to do when we are in that area! And I found some cool footage on YT. Thanks!



PyratOne said:


> bump!
> Hows the planning, Ted?
> 
> GoogleMaps? Check!
> ...


Still working our our "game plan" for Days 5, 6 and 8. We have some flexibility to shift stuff around. Might drive from Andermatt to Triberg (Germany) and stay there for the night...and then spend day 6 in Heidleberg. Not sure yet.

Also looking at a few "What If" scenarios in the event that we have car "issues" during the trip. For instance, "What if we have a flat tire in Davos and it takes 2 days to get a spare/replacement? A: How would our itin change?"



SANguru said:


> I stayed at the Pullman Hotel in Stuttgart. Great buffet breakfast and the room was big and comfortable. Underground parking had very big spaces and only 16 euros.


Thanks for the recommendation. Much appreciated!!


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

There are some great drives in the Black Forest around Baden-Baden. Get a good map of the local area and you will see some good twisties. 

The Baden Airpark used to be a fighter base for the Royal Canadian Air Force during the Cold War. It is a bit spooky now as it still has these reinforced concrete hangers they kept the planes in. There was also a Concorde parked there the last time we were there. If your Dad is into military stuff it might be slightly interesting but it is not a military highlight. I personally find it interesting as I was there when it was an active military base. 

I would also tactfully point out (since it is not really relevant) that the Korean War was from 1950-53. More likely, your Dad was part of the huge U.S. Military presence in West Germany until the end of the cold war.


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks Kanuck! Yeah, he was in W. Germany as part of an Indochina "program". I'll look into the Baden Airpark; it looks like it operates a bunch of small regional carriers now (Ryan Air, Berlin Air etc). We are currently planning to be on the B500 through Baden-Baden so I'm sure we'll hit those twisties. 

PS: My original post has been edited with new hotel info etc.


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok, just when I think I've got a good idea of our Itin for Days 5 thru 9 -- I now have to make some modifications to handle a recently revised Ring schedule. I just happen to be looking at the Ring schedule for "Tourist Rides" and notice that it is NOT AVAILABLE on Sept 12th (our original plan for Day 7). Crap!!!!! 

http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angeb...-nordschleife/opening-times-nordschleife.html

It is however open for a short 2 hour window on Sept 11th and Sept 13th (between 5PM and 7PM). The 11th is probably more doable, but it means revising the 2nd half our our itin a bit:

*Day 4 - Sept 9th:*
Davos > Andermatt: 4 hours (via San Bernardino and Fukra Pass in the morning; skip the Rhone Glacier break)
Andermatt > Zurich: 3.5 hours (via Klausen Pass; stay in Zurich that night Sept 9th)
_(Yeah, this is a lot of driving for one day, but we'll have two people alternating in the driving)_

*Day 5 - Sept 10th:*
Zurich to Heidleberg: 5 hours (via b500 route)
Hang out in Heidleberg for the day/night

*Day 6 - Sept 11th:*
Heidleberg > Nurburgring: 2 hours
Do our Tourist Laps in the evening; Stay at the AM Tiergarten

*Day 7 - Sept 12th:*
Hang out in Nurburg for the day, relax, check out the castles etc.
Maybe stay another night or shoot back down to Heidleberg and check out the Hockenheimring/track or hit the Porsche/MB Museums etc.

*Day 8 - Sept 13th: *
A continuation of Day 7 stuff and maybe drive back to Munich that night; not sure yet.

*Day 9 - Sept 14th:*
Shoot back to Munich Airport in the morning etc; drop off 335d and board our 3PM flight back to BOS.


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## djafactor (Jul 21, 2011)

Crap,

I just booked all my hotels working around the 12th for the Ring.

This is my current up-to-date itinerary, what to do now?

*Day 1 - Wed Sept 7th (Arrive, Site Seeing)*
Arrive 9am, Site see the Munich.
Hotel Laimer Hof Nymphenburg Palace $114
Laimer Strasse 40, Munich, 80639
Confirmed

*Day 2 - Thurs Sept 8th (Delivery Day!, BMW Museum & Neuschwanstein Castle)*
Tour the BMW museum, take delivery, head towards Fussen to tour the castle. Head to Innsbruck to stay the night
Hotel: Hilton Innsbruck $154
Salurner Strasse 15, Innsbruck, 6020 Austria
Confirmed

Drive Times: Total 3.5hrs. (Munich -> Fussen : 2hrs), (Fussen -> Innsbruck 1.5hrs)

*Day 3 - Fri Sept 9th (South Tyrol, Fluela & Stelvio Pass Day)*
Leave Innsbruck towards Merano via South Tyrol. Merano Merano down to Bormio and back up to stay in Trafoi
Hotel: Bella Vista
Confirmation: Need to send Bank Transfer
Drive Times: Total 4hrs. (Innsbruck -> Merano : 2hrs), (Merano -> Trafoi : 2hrs)

*Day 4 - Sat Sept 10th (San Bernardino & Fukra Pass Day)*
Leave Trafoi towards Davos. Davos to Andermatt. 
Hotel: Hotel Sonne Andermatt
Confirmation: Sent email, awaiting response
Drive Times: Total 6hrs. (Trafoi -> Davos : 2hrs), (Davos -> Andermatt : 3hrs), (Andermatt -> Lucern : 1hrs).

*Day 5*- Sun Sept 11th (Black Forest B500)*
Leave Lucerne running through the Black Forest. Get on the B500 near Freiburg im Breisgau and then from Freudenstadt head NW towards Stuttgart.
Hotel: Hilton Garden Inn NeckarPark Stuttgart $129
Mercedesstr 75, Stuttgart 70372
Confirmed
Drive Time: 4hrs

*Day 6 - Mon Sept 12th (Mercedes Museum & The Ring!)*
Mercedes Museum in the morning. Stuttgart to the Ring. Spend the late afternoon (tourist lapping 4:45 - 7:30pm) trying to break the 12 min mark
Hotel: Am Tiergarten 
Confirmed
Drive Time: 3hrs

*Day 7 - (Frankfurt, drop the 1M)*
Leave Nurburg to Frankfurt. Drop the car, spend the day in the city. Beer & Bed
Hotel: ACHAT Plaza Frankfurt / Offenbach $273
Ernst-Griescheimer-Platz 7, Offenbach 63071
Confirmed
Drive Time: 2hrs

*Day 8 - (Depart Frankfurt)*
Back home to MTL 10am. Now the wait begins...again.


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## BMW Power (Jul 25, 2007)

Ted, 6 to 8 laps is a lot on the ring. I did two on Friday afternoon and two on Saturday, letting the brakes cool off between laps and it was pretty exhausting for me and the car. The tires were taking a beating. It was 75 euro for a 4 lap ticket. Not sure if you are used to the track and or do a lot of track driving, but from a novice it was taxing. I really enjoyed it, but I think 4 laps was my limit.


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks for that insight. Yeah, we'll likely only be able to handle 4 laps; which for us, will probably be sufficient. And with our revised itin, we'll be driving up that morning from Heidleberg (~2 hours) and won't get on the Ring until 5PM. That should be enough driving for one day.


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