# So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)



## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

My Uncle left out of town and asked me to bring his car to the dealership for him. Last week he brought it in for an oil change, and they forgot to reset the computer, so I brought it today for them to fix it.

This was the first time I really get to drive his car. It varies from mine in a few ways. You all know I have an 02 325i 5spd, PP SP H/K, and Xenons, TiAg with Black Leather.

His car is a 2001 Steel Gray 325i, 5 spd, PP, and folding rear seats, and Black Leather. There has been so many debates on SP or non SP seats and I finally got to really test them out for myself.

Yesterday I went by his house to drop mine off and pick up his. I sit in the car and go to adjust the seat. I forgot that a 325 with non SP seats are only 8-way seats, as mine are 12-way. In my car I like to tilt the front of the seat up a little while keeping the back end of the bottom seat down so I am sitting back in the seat nicely. It kind of lets the seat cradle you a little. In his car, the entire bottom of the seat would have to move up or down, you couldn't move just the front or back seat bottom up or down. Also there is no thigh support, and me being 6 ft tall, I keep my thigh support fully extended. 

The drive to the dealer was a little over an hour, so I really got to feel if they were better for the longer rides. I drove the car total about 3 hrs and the non SP seats are in no way more comfortable than the SP seats. Now I can understand for bigger people the side bolsters on the SP seats might get a little uncomfortable, but they tend to hug me nicely. In his car with regualr seats, I felt more "lost" in them. It was too easy to slide all over the place, and they just didn't hold you in as well. The non SP seats are also no softer. I thought the SP seats would be a little firmer but the non SP seats didn't feel any softer or more plush. To me the SP seats are worth every penny. They are more comfortable, look better, and feel just as good.

One thing I have to say that I rather about the non SP seats is the entry and exit from the car. Without the bolsters there it is so easy to get in and out and not wear out the seat, but it's not enough to make me not get the SP.

My SP steering wheel is also different, nothing really but opinion can decide on these steering wheels. I rather the look of the SP 3-spoke steering wheel.

His car was also equipped with the 16" style 45 wheels and all season tires where mine has 17" style 96 wheels and Z rated tires. I like the 17" 96's way more than the 45's. I like how the lugs are covered by a cap and the look of a low profile tire. His tires were quieter than mine, and the non SP ride was just barely softer. His car did not feel as tight as mine did, and when cornering quickly the all-seasons feel like they want to "bend" or roll under the rim almost. The Z-rated tires really bite more into turns, and have much better performance obviously. 

The SP suspension is a little stiffer but is no more harsh of a ride. It simply feels more solid to me and just the overall drive of the car feels much better.

His car was not equipped with the H/K sound system either. For those of you who are really into auido, don't waste your $600 on this option. The standard radio sounds plenty good enough, and if you want better sound, just upgrade it with aftermarket products. I wasted money with the H/K system, and have changed out things since then.

I know Xenons are sometimes a big issue around here. I have them and have loved them. Last night I sat in his car without the Xenons and went ride. For those of you who do not see much of a difference with the Halogens or Xenons, you are crazy. The Xenons are so much crisper and you get just a much better view of the road at night. You simply have to go drive 2 cars back to back with and without Xenons to really see how much better they are. If they are in your budget, make sure you have this option checked off.

Mine has the refreshed look because it is a year newer and that is only ones opinion also of which looks better. I rather mine of course. Also color is strictly opinion. I rather the Silver because his Steel gray seems to have a bluish tint sometimes. If I wanted blue I would have gotten Orient Blue. I'm glad they came out with Silver Gray, it seems to be a much nicer color.

Overall if you are looking for an under $30K car then the regular 325i 5 spd performs great, no doubt about it, but if you can afford it the Xenons and Sport Package are a must have.

This is the first time I really get to feel and see the differences between the Sport Package and non Sport Package and I am sold. I think the SP is worth every penny it is, for comfort, looks, and performance.

If I did buy another 3er, SP and Xenons are the only 2 options that I really would have to have. Just for the short time I had his car, I missed mine so much, and I'm glad to have it back.  Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading. :thumbup: 

Hopefully this will help some people debating on whether or not to get the Sport Package. Go see both for yourself, you will be impressed


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## robj213 (Nov 2, 2002)

> If I did buy another 3er, SP and Xenons are the only 2 options that I really would have to have.


Ahhh.. exactly my car :thumbup: 325i, SP, Xenon, 5 speed. Would I qualify for the most rigid and lightest 3 series?


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

robj213 said:


> *Ahhh.. exactly my car :thumbup: 325i, SP, Xenon, 5 speed. Would I qualify for the most rigid and lightest 3 series? *


Probably so  You have the essentials, nothing more :thumbup:


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

tgravo2 said:


> *I rather the Silver because his Steel gray seems to have a bluish tint sometimes. If I wanted blue I would have gotten Orient Blue. I'm glad they came out with Silver Gray, it seems to be a much nicer color. *


:flipoff:



Titanium Silver is a great color, except that it's the color of every third BMW you see. If you _really_ want to blend into the crowd, Titanium Silver is the right choice.



Also, FWIW, I listened to the base stereo in a new Nissan 350Z this past weekend, and thought the HK stereo in my car totally blew it away for sound quality.

Otherwise, nice write up. :thumbup:


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



PhilH said:


> *:flipoff:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Phil, color is stricly opinion, and had it not been for the TiAg on the lot, I would have ordered a Steel Gray. Your's looks a whole lot better since it has the clears, also the wheels make a big difference on a car to me.

So the 350Z you sat in, it didn't have the bose system right? My sister has an 03 altima with the bose system and it is better to me than the H/K. Now don't get me wrong the H/K is nice, I just don't think it is worth the money when you could spend the money in aftermarket products and have a much better system :thumbup:


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

i would like the side bolsters on my SP seat to be closer together. as it is, i don't feel like they 'hold' me in place and i'm not a thin person. i guess they have to make the SP seat fit your average wide american.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Matthew330CiM said:


> *i would like the side bolsters on my SP seat to be closer together. as it is, i don't feel like they 'hold' me in place and i'm not a thin person. i guess they have to make the SP seat fit your average wide american.  *


Strangely, THe e39's sport seats have much snugger bolsters. You'd expect the e39 to be designed for "wider frames", but its the opposite.


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

Matthew330CiM said:


> *i would like the side bolsters on my SP seat to be closer together. as it is, i don't feel like they 'hold' me in place and i'm not a thin person. i guess they have to make the SP seat fit your average wide american.  *


I've heard of some people "bending" their bolsters to fit them, whether it be wider or narrower :dunno:


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



tgravo2 said:


> *So the 350Z you sat in, it didn't have the bose system right? My sister has an 03 altima with the bose system and it is better to me than the H/K. *


No, it didn't have the Bose system. The main reason I walked over to try out the guy's stereo (with my Audioslave disc) is because I knew Nissan's stereos generally sound pretty good, and I wanted to try a back to back comparison. It didn't even come close to the HK's sound (as you might expect of a base Nissan stereo versus a premium BMW stereo).


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



PhilH said:


> *No, it didn't have the Bose system. The main reason I walked over to try out the guy's stereo (with my Audioslave disc) is because I knew Nissan's stereos generally sound pretty good, and I wanted to try a back to back comparison. It didn't even come close to the HK's sound (as you might expect of a base Nissan stereo versus a premium BMW stereo). *


Yes, but you should try out the Nissan Bose stereo, will easily match up with the H/K :thumbup:


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## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



tgravo2 said:


> *Yes, but you should try out the Nissan Bose stereo, will easily match up with the H/K :thumbup:  *


It's hard to figure out those Bose stereos. In the Acura 3.2 TL, they're despised. In the home theater world, they are too. I just hope that doesn't mean the H/K really sucks. 

-Peter


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## GaryB (Feb 2, 2003)

Interesting. I thought the Bose system in the Infiniti G35 coupe which I test-drove was dreadful, much poorer than the Bose system in my just-departed Acura 3.2 CL Type S. The Bose system in my wife's Altima is good, but I'm not sure it deserves the rave review it got at Edmunds.com. Now that I'm becoming accustomed to the "sonic signature" of my 330Ci, I'm starting to like the HK system more, possibly as much as the Acura's system, but certainly not more.

As I have posted before, the best system I have owned was the Bose system in my 1996 Nissan Maxima SE. By "best", I'm referring to clarity and "you are there" presence, not extremes of bass and/or volume.


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



Spectre said:


> *It's hard to figure out those Bose stereos. In the Acura 3.2 TL, they're despised. In the home theater world, they are too. I just hope that doesn't mean the H/K really sucks.
> 
> -Peter *


I happen to think their surround sound systems for homes are really awesome. They can put out some great sound :thumbup:


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

rumatt said:


> *Oh my god. A useful post by tgravo!!!!
> 
> Nice comparison. :thumbup: *


Thanks, I knew I was good for somethin


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



tgravo2 said:


> *I happen to think their surround sound systems for homes are really awesome. They can put out some great sound :thumbup: *


Better options out there... Much better...


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## atlanta330i (May 15, 2002)

I had a Toyotal Avalon rental car and it had the premium JBL system. This system blew away my HK and actually every other factory system I have ever heard.


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## joema (Aug 28, 2002)

I have a 2003 330i SP 5-speed, and when I've driven a 2002 325i step non-sport, the handling difference was huge, far beyond what I expected. Maybe because the base 325i doesn't have the sport suspension whereas the base 330i does, magnifying the sport vs non-sport difference? Or do I have that wrong?

The 325i non-sport had some good characteristics: it tramlined less, had a better sense of "straight ahead" on uneven pavement and was slighlty quieter. But it had much more body roll, and turn-in was a lot less crisp.

The difference in power was equally huge. Of course you'd expect a 330i 5-speed to feel faster than a 325i step, but the difference was large, much more than I expected. Probably a 325i 5-speed would feel closer in acceleration.

The 330i steps I've driven were a lot faster. IOW they degraded less under the automatic than the 325i seemed to. Maybe the additional low-rpm torque is a big factor for making an automatic work well.

Based on this the minimum e46 I'd personally get would be a 325i SP manual transmission.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

SP is great for the seats and the M68's. NFW would I drive a BMW with those :amish: Style 73's. :rofl:


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

joema said:


> *I have a 2003 330i SP 5-speed, and when I've driven a 2002 325i step non-sport, the handling difference was huge, far beyond what I expected. Maybe because the base 325i doesn't have the sport suspension whereas the base 330i does, magnifying the sport vs non-sport difference? Or do I have that wrong?
> 
> The 325i non-sport had some good characteristics: it tramlined less, had a better sense of "straight ahead" on uneven pavement and was slighlty quieter. But it had much more body roll, and turn-in was a lot less crisp.
> 
> ...


You are right, If I had to get a step it would definately be a 330. The 325 just doesn't have the torque for me to handle a step tranny. OTOH the 5 spd worked out to be a nice combo for the 325. I find it significantly better than a step. :thumbup:


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

ObD said:


> *SP is great for the seats and the M68's. NFW would I drive a BMW with those :amish: Style 73's. :rofl: *


Isn't that the truth, those 73's are kind of


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## Mathew (Feb 8, 2002)

H/K...pfft!

Logic7 is sooo much better  :angel:


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

robj213 said:


> *Ahhh.. exactly my car :thumbup: 325i, SP, Xenon, 5 speed. Would I qualify for the most rigid and lightest 3 series? *


Nah, I win for that. I already argued that one.

SP, CD, Auto-Climate.

No fogs, no leather, no 'roof, no xenon's....

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. My car is ghetto.


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## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



tgravo2 said:


> *I happen to think their surround sound systems for homes are really awesome. They can put out some great sound :thumbup: *


They're a bit over-priced for surround sound systems -- you can do much better for less money. They do look nice, take up little room, etc., but if you check with most HT afficianados, you'll find that Bose is not well-respected in that regard. Of course, if the Bose system works well for you, enjoy it! (I bought one for my father because he needed small speakers in white -- at the time Bose hit mark.)

-Peter


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: So I've had my Uncles 325 for 2 days (SP vs non SP)*



Spectre said:


> *They're a bit over-priced for surround sound systems -- you can do much better for less money. They do look nice, take up little room, etc., but if you check with most HT afficianados, you'll find that Bose is not well-respected in that regard. Of course, if the Bose system works well for you, enjoy it! (I bought one for my father because he needed small speakers in white -- at the time Bose hit mark.)
> 
> -Peter *


My Dad is looking into getting it. The black system. He likes the idea that the reciever is just that little box, and it's also a DVD player. Just a lot less pieces to the system. :dunno:


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## j2 (Jun 13, 2003)

atlanta330i said:


> I had a Toyotal Avalon rental car and it had the premium JBL system. This system blew away my HK and actually every other factory system I have ever heard.


That's interesting, because Harman/Kardon and JBL are the same company!

http://www.harman-multimedia.com/about.html


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## sshuit (Apr 15, 2002)

I don't mean to be a d!ck or anything but anyone who is interested in high end audio at all will *rofl* at that comment.

Bose is one of the worst audio companies out there.

Why?

1. incredibly cheap ass paper cone construction of speaker drivers.

2. incredibly overboosted bass and treble to compensate for crappy unrealistic sounds.

3. Overpriced.

4. Bose actually has in their dealer contracts legal terms which prohibit "side by side" testing of their speakers/amps vs competitors. That is because they have no sonic fidelity and are shown up in seconds by a "real" audio system (which may cost several hundred or thousands less)

5. check out any audiophile review site or usenet group. their venom for bose is similar to what a Bimmerphile might have for a Lada.



tgravo2 said:


> I happen to think their surround sound systems for homes are really awesome. They can put out some great sound :thumbup:


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

I guess this is turning into a stereo debate....





ok, this may not be the area to ask the question, but would you recommend the H/K, or the stock with an amp/sub combo? If I were to do aftermarket, I would probably go for a smaller amp and a 10" sub. Nothing huge being as trunk space would be an issue. I do not like speed sensitive volume adjustments, but other than that, would the H/K be similar in sound as a smaller aftermarket? ... and I listen to all mustic with the exception of country and techno/dance music. .... so my stereo would have to be a diverse system (for lack of better terms)...


any help would be appreciated


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## sshuit (Apr 15, 2002)

Have you had a chance to listen to the stock vs stock H/K ?

They both sound mediocre but the H/K is less mediocre IMO. You can get a pretty clean install with the JL stealthboxes and add some bass to the stock system, or you can go whole hog and replace the stock head unit / aftermarket amp / spkrs. If you are a real "audio-snob" you won't be happy with the H/K. You're better off doing a custom install and saving your money. In addition the H/K does tend to have some "rattles" which your car may or may not develop.....

What I would do (or did actually)....

Stock stereo, invest 2K$ or so next year and get a nice custom install, try to keep everything as clean as possible, avoid losing precious trunk space.



ajt819 said:


> I guess this is turning into a stereo debate....
> 
> ok, this may not be the area to ask the question, but would you recommend the H/K, or the stock with an amp/sub combo? If I were to do aftermarket, I would probably go for a smaller amp and a 10" sub. Nothing huge being as trunk space would be an issue. I do not like speed sensitive volume adjustments, but other than that, would the H/K be similar in sound as a smaller aftermarket? ... and I listen to all mustic with the exception of country and techno/dance music. .... so my stereo would have to be a diverse system (for lack of better terms)...
> 
> any help would be appreciated


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

sshuit said:


> I don't mean to be a d!ck or anything but anyone who is interested in high end audio at all will *rofl* at that comment.
> 
> Bose is one of the worst audio companies out there.
> 
> ...


 I didn't need a side by side test to make Bose home systems fall apart. I just had a couple of great test tracks. 

That said, the Bose systems in high end Benzes sure beat the hell out of the crap we get.


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