# E46 M3 intake questions



## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

All,

I'm doing this as a service for a friend of mine with an 01 M3, and as I'm not at all familiar with M3 intakes, I'm taking the lazy way out and asking for some pointers... 

I've seen/heard about 2 different designs: Carbonio (that has a centrally located ram-air slit) and GruppeM (the trumpet-shaped that sits behind the headlight).

I think my friend doesn't expect huge performance gains from this, mostly a nice sound and great looks.

Can anyone share their opinions on these 2 intakes? (and possibly others).

I appreciate your help,

adc
03 330 ZHP


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

You forgot AFE, who also makes an intake similar to ECIS/Jim Conforti type with an enclosed, heat shielded airbox housing a cylindrical filter for the E46 M3.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

As I said in my PM...

Gruppe M has pulled out of NA as they apparently caused engine failures. (I've seen a couple possibles, and this was listed on their web site. Not a rumor.)

K&N has the cheapest option and it's apparently pretty good.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

How about the OEM CSL intake...kinda pricey though.... :dunno: 
http://www.revozportna.com/

Or Dinan, at least it'll put down a couple more horses, and BMW friendly...
http://www.dinancars.com/Series.asp?Series=14&Chassis=10&Model=9


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> How about the OEM CSL intake...kinda pricey though.... :dunno:
> http://www.revozportna.com/
> 
> Or Dinan, at least it'll put down a couple more horses, and BMW friendly...
> http://www.dinancars.com/Series.asp?Series=14&Chassis=10&Model=9


 The OEM CSL intake requires an entirely different engine management system.

And Dinan reports soem of the modifications they make directly to BMW. They are NOT BMW friendly, BMW will void the warranty on affected parts if it's reported, and they WILL refuse to CPO the car.

Dinan offers supplementary coverage that many people think equates to not voiding the BMW warranty.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

*The OEM CSL intake requires an entirely different engine management system.
* 
True..and I believe the reason being, is not so much for the intake. But for the cams that are in the CSL..

*Dinan offers supplementary coverage that many people think equates to not voiding the BMW warranty*

As long as the dealership is DINAN cert, it will fall back into their lap, and they have to eat the cost of a new motor or whatnot..Being that the engine failed because of a dinan mod that they did...But being that he's doing the work himself, he'll void warranty regardless with what he does..

Dinan's sigs mods are said to produce the same amount of HP of the CSL. Not that 360ish is much improvement..


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> *The OEM CSL intake requires an entirely different engine management system.
> *
> True..and I believe the reason being, is not so much for the intake. But for the cams that are in the CSL..
> 
> ...


 No, the reason is that the CSL doesn't have an MAF.

Cams only need software.

And the difference between having Dinan report your mods and doing them yourself is that you can take them off. More to the point, a tolerant dealer won't even report mods they see.

Quite frankly, I can't see any reason to get a Dinan product. They're massively overpriced, don't offer the performance benefits they claim, and some of them will get your warranty voided with absolute certainty. Maybe it's just me, but I value keepign the possibility of a trade open.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> No, the reason is that the CSL doesn't have an MAF.
> 
> Cams only need software.
> 
> ...


Well you could look at it in two different ways...Alot of second hand M buyers would jump into a Dinan M before they see a frankin'd up car with upgraded suspension components that was tracked to death..Looking at a car that has had improper tools used on it, as in not BMW's, is an eyesore to many. Improper torque use, rounded off 6 points, etc..I would never buy a car that has been a speed junkie's garage experiment..And I too, would like to uphold the car's value for trade in...But buyer's/dealerships like to see all work on paper from a respectible garage...Not word of mouth about why or who did the upgrades in their garage at home..

If you look at the CSL airbox that they are selling, it comes with the air flow valve and valve controller motor...It's a mod..meaning you'll have to disfigure some $%#$%..and it cost over 9k....they also sell the ecu...


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> Well you could look at it in two different ways...Alot of second hand M buyers would jump into a Dinan M before they see a frankin'd up car with upgraded suspension components that was tracked to death..Looking at a car that has had improper tools used on it, as in not BMW's, is an eyesore to many. Improper torque use, rounded off 6 points, etc..I would never buy a car that has been a speed junkie's garage experiment..And I too, would like to uphold the car's value for trade in...But buyer's/dealerships like to see all work on paper from a respectible garage...Not word of mouth about why or who did the upgrades in their garage at home..
> 
> If you look at the CSL airbox that they are selling, it comes with the air flow valve and valve controller motor...It's a mod..meaning you'll have to disfigure some $%#$%..and it cost over 9k....they also sell the ecu...


 And anyone who sells his car in anything but stock form is an idiot.

So let me get this straight... You're holding up the guys who ****ed up the frame on a Z8 as your example of quality work here?


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> And anyone who sells his car in anything but stock form is an idiot.
> 
> So let me get this straight... You're holding up the guys who ****ed up the frame on a Z8 as your example of quality work here?


Uhh fill me in here..who f'd up the frame...dealership mechanics, Dinan themselves, or Revozport??? I was only talking about Dinan certified dealerships as opposed to the shade tree "mechanics"..Granted I've done all work on all my previous cars and my truck...I won't be touching this one for a good while..just for trade in value, if I should want to get rid of it before warranty...


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Dinan themselves. As in Dinan HQ.

The official line is that they *thought* they were modifying the floor pan so that they could install headers. It's just that as it turned out, they were actually breaking the FRAME. Maybe it's just me, but even hacking the floor pan is unacceptable.

http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showpost.php?p=556&postcount=16


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Dinan themselves. As in Dinan HQ.
> 
> The official line is that they *thought* they were modifying the floor pan so that they could install headers. It's just that as it turned out, they were actually breaking the FRAME. Maybe it's just me, but even hacking the floor pan is unacceptable.
> 
> http://www.bmwz8.us/vbb/showpost.php?p=556&postcount=16


Yeah, that would seem to weaken the frame, considering it's a unibody..But that's experimental..All aftermarket companies have to do this if they have no factory backing..Trial and error..then error..then error..but the outcome is usually enough to pay for all their experiments..Weakening a cars frame is not acceptible to me either...But I don't think anyone would send over 100k worth of car to an aftermarket company to experiment with..It was probably Dinan's Z8, so they can test different ideas out..but that's not what we're talking about..


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

Eehh, guys, no need to fight over little old me... :rofl: 

I think I get it: avoid GruppeM like the plague and if my friend can get past the looks, he should get an AFE.

So where would be a good place to buy an AFE?

Many thanks,

adc


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

adc said:


> Eehh, guys, no need to fight over little old me... :rofl:
> 
> I think I get it: avoid GruppeM like the plague and if my friend can get past the looks, he should get an AFE.
> 
> ...


http://www.m3motorwerks.com/products/myCarParts.php?make=undefined&model=8&year=2004

They are extremely quick with ordering /shipping...I have nothing but good things to say about them..

Edit:OOps..I sent a link to an 04..it's the same thing..but you can navigate to the 01


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> Yeah, that would seem to weaken the frame, considering it's a unibody..But that's experimental..All aftermarket companies have to do this if they have no factory backing..Trial and error..then error..then error..but the outcome is usually enough to pay for all their experiments..Weakening a cars frame is not acceptible to me either...But I don't think anyone would send over 100k worth of car to an aftermarket company to experiment with..It was probably Dinan's Z8, so they can test different ideas out..but that's not what we're talking about..


 No, Dinan did it to 10-12 Z8s.

They only found out about it when one of them was sent back to BMW for an unrelated repair, BMW found the damage, and indicated that they would total the car.


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