# Jon, couple questions on fees



## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

I posted several days ago about making a deal and ordering my 330i. Well, the more I think about it, and the more I read other posts... I'm a bit concerned about the fees.

I'm paying a $500 MACO fee, plus a $160 training fee. I know these fees are pretty "standard". My concern is how much the fees are. Most other people seem to post paying much less in fees... totaling less than my $500 MACO fee alone. How can I determine if the fee amounts my dealership is charging is legit? I know they vary by region, but there must be a "regional fee schedule" somewhere...

Also... not that it makes a huge difference, but my final price was determined by adding the invoice price and the fees, then adding 5% of that total to get the sale price. Does the 5% profit usually include the fees? Or should the 5% not include the fees. Actually... it's only like a $35 difference. Bah, I'm making a stink about nothing.

2003 330i, Met. Paint, PP, SP, CWP, Step, XH, Destination: $39,255 Invoice

In the end, after invoice, fees and 5% profit, my cost is $41,910... less than Edmund's TMV of $42,639. So, I guess I got a good deal. But I'll still be jealous of anyone who got a better deal on a similar car.  

Thanks for the reassurance.  

Eric


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Eric,

The $160 "training & systems fee" is already "baked into" 
the base invoice amount that you would find at a place
like Edmund's. It's not itemized, or broken out...

The MACO fee sounds very high.
Customarily, it is approximately 1% of the _base_ 
invoice amount...

<< How can I determine if the fee amounts my dealership is charging is legit? >>

That is REALLY simple. Tell your dealer to log onto
BMW DCS 2000, and run a vehicle inquiry on your
production number. Once there, they can select
the "invoice" tab, and print you a copy of the actual
invoice. The MACO amount will be clearly
posted as a debit item...

It will all be there, in black and white...

:thumbup:


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

Hmmm. So, by my understanding, it looks like the dealership is "overcharging" me a couple hundred bucks.  Or... at least they might be.

The car isn't in production yet. It probably won't even be ordered until the first week of November at the earliest. Will it be too late to "correct" the pricing error once a production number is obtained? As I've said, the paperwork has already been done, and the deposit left.

How should I approach them and say "I'd like to have you remove the $160 training fee as it is bogus, and I'd like you to show me the actual MACO fee, and make adjustments as required."? I don't want to sound whiney over a few hundred bucks on a $40,000 car... but I'm making quite a stretch to get this "dream car" in the first place.

And after he gave me a story that if they didn't make a 5% minimum, they would have to close the dealership because they couldn't afford to stay open. :tsk:


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

OBS3SSION said:


> *Hmmm. So, by my understanding, it looks like the dealership is "overcharging" me a couple hundred bucks.  Or... at least they might be.
> 
> The car isn't in production yet. It probably won't even be ordered until the first week of November at the earliest. Will it be too late to "correct" the pricing error once a production number is obtained? As I've said, the paperwork has already been done, and the deposit left.
> 
> ...


<< How should I approach them and say "I'd like to have you remove the $160 training fee as it is bogus, and I'd like you to show me the actual MACO fee, and make adjustments as required."? >>

Well, the $160 training fee is not bogus - it is actually printed on 
the invoice, as is the MACO fee...

Asking to see a printout of the invoice is a reasonable request...

One quick view will surely corroborate or refute any concerns 
over deceit...


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## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

Jon,

Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I misunderstood what you said about the training fee. I thought you meant it was not a line item on the BMW invoice. All of Edmunds numbers matched the invoice prices for each individual option. The only extra fee they add is the destination fee. So I got confused as to what you meant.

So... the training fee is not bogus. I'm guessing the $500 MACO is a "guess" since the actual order isn't even in yet. Once it is, I'll ask to see what the MACO fee really is. Sorry for being all confused about this. I guess I'm always worried that the dealers are out to get me.


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## Jason B (Apr 13, 2002)

My salesman showed me a "Confidential" pricing sheet from BMW for my car. The MACO fee in South Fla. is $500. It could legitimatley be the same in your area too. 
I also checked with four other dealers in the region and they unaimously confirmed the fee is $500 for advertising and $160 for training. 


BTW, Edmunds blows, they listed the TMV for my car almost 2k higher than what I paid.


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## bls (Sep 16, 2002)

Jason B said:


> *BTW, Edmunds blows, they listed the TMV for my car almost 2k higher than what I paid. *


I don't think Edmund's necessarily blows. The TMV is supposed to be the average price paid... that means some people will be below as well as some above. I'm sure that many people walk onto car lots with the MSRP in hand, and are prepared to pay more than that for a hot car like a BMW. Of course, most dealers would never take advantage of a someone's naivete like that, but it only takes a few bad apples to pull up the average.

And for a 2003 model year car, Edmunds probably doesn't have much data yet either, so the numbers will be weak. I noticed when they first started listing 2003 BMWs, they just listed the MSRP as TMV.


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