# csl lightweight platform



## cheng41328 (Aug 6, 2004)

Hey all, I'm new to the forum and I just have a few questions concerning the 1993-94 325is. I am planning to turn this vehicle into a csl lightweight in the future and was just wondering if anyone could confirm these facts. The reason I got a 94 was because pre '95 cars weigh only 3025lbs while after 95, the cars weigh 3267lbs because of certain luxury and electronic gizmos. Also, a '92 isn't in the question because it doesn't have the VANOS until '93. So the reason why I didn't pick the m3 over the 325is is because it is 242lbs heavier, and it doesn't use the m50 manifold that is sought after that's already on the pre '95 engines. The main reason is the price though. While purchasing an m3 is possible, I figure that to turn it into a lightweight, I would have to remove most of the things that makes an m3 an m3. And for the US spec m3, the engine is a tuned, bored and stroked 3-series engine, which I see as a ripoff, considering the Euro m3 has a hand built, entirely different engine. So basically, my conclusion is that the '93-94 325is is the ideal platform for converting to a lightweight, as I can get all the lightweight parts, and also get the engine bored and stroked for the same price that it cost me to get an m3 outright. So, csl performance for stock m3 price. Can anybody here either confirm all of this? Because if this all isn't true, or there is a better platform out there, i would like to know so I don't spend time and money modding something that doesn't have potential. Thanks, and sorry for the long post.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

cheng41328 said:


> Hey all, I'm new to the forum and I just have a few questions concerning the 1993-94 325is. I am planning to turn this vehicle into a csl lightweight in the future and was just wondering if anyone could confirm these facts. The reason I got a 94 was because pre '95 cars weigh only 3025lbs while after 95, the cars weigh 3267lbs because of certain luxury and electronic gizmos. Also, a '92 isn't in the question because it doesn't have the VANOS until '93.


Early M50 motors (1990-1992) are reputedly tougher than later ones, particularly those with VANOS. And if you are turning the car into a lightweight racing special, VANOS will be no good to you (it exists only to boost torque in the midrange and make driving more relaxing, and it's another thing to go wrong). 


> So the reason why I didn't pick the m3 over the 325is is because it is 242lbs heavier, and it doesn't use the m50 manifold that is sought after that's already on the pre '95 engines. The main reason is the price though. While purchasing an m3 is possible, I figure that to turn it into a lightweight, I would have to remove most of the things that makes an m3 an m3. And for the US spec m3, the engine is a tuned, bored and stroked 3-series engine, which I see as a ripoff, considering the Euro m3 has a hand built, entirely different engine. So basically, my conclusion is that the '93-94 325is is the ideal platform for converting to a lightweight, as I can get all the lightweight parts, and also get the engine bored and stroked for the same price that it cost me to get an m3 outright. So, csl performance for stock m3 price. Can anybody here either confirm all of this?


Well, using a 325i as a base your performance will be closer to the 1973 Coupe CSL, not the M3 CSL, which has (amongst other things) 360 bhp, a carbon roof, plastic trunk lid, and a cardboard luggage compartment. Really, you are better off buying an M3 and removing everything which isn't designed to promote lightness or speed. Air-con, leather, electric gizmos and fancy trim do not make an M3 an M3!

The weight of a stripped, ready-to-race 3-litre M3 will not be significantly more than that of a ready-to-race 325i, and power/torque are considerably higher.


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## cheng41328 (Aug 6, 2004)

*reply*

Thanks for the response. What I was thinking was that the stuff that's on the LTW, such as the carbon fiber hood, trunk lid, etc.. are not on an m3, and that to make a m3 actually race ready, I would have to upgrade the suspension, brakes, among other things. So my logic behind the project 325 is that I could put on a new suspension, brakes, etc. So basically, I was just wondering if in the long run, a modded 325 will perform better than an m3 for less money.


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## JoeCinVa (Apr 26, 2002)

andy_thomas said:


> Well, using a 325i as a base your performance will be closer to the 1973 Coupe CSL, not the M3 CSL, which has (amongst other things) 360 bhp, a carbon roof, plastic trunk lid, and a cardboard luggage compartment. Really, you are better off buying an M3 and removing everything which isn't designed to promote lightness or speed. Air-con, leather, electric gizmos and fancy trim do not make an M3 an M3!


I think he's talking about a 93-94 325is versus a 95 M3. You're talking about the E46 M3 CSL. The US 95 M3 LTW didn't have 360 bhp or carbon fibre exterior panels. There's no way he's going to mod a 93-94 325is to get close to a E46 M3 CSL. In any case, I agree with you that it's probably much cheaper for him to get a 95 M3 and reduce its weight.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

cheng41328 said:


> Thanks for the response. What I was thinking was that the stuff that's on the LTW, such as the carbon fiber hood, trunk lid, etc.. are not on an m3, and that to make a m3 actually race ready, I would have to upgrade the suspension, brakes, among other things. So my logic behind the project 325 is that I could put on a new suspension, brakes, etc. So basically, I was just wondering if in the long run, a modded 325 will perform better than an m3 for less money.


a) The E36 M3 LTW does NOT have a CF hood.

b) The E36 M3 LTW does NOT have a CF trunk lid.

c) The E36 M3 LTW does have aluminum doors, which are VERY expensive and hard to find.

d) The E36 M3 LTW has a hand picked engine from the top of the HP range. Also up to 95 models have the M50 manifold and OBD 1. Intake setup can gain 40 HP.

e) The LTW has lighter insulation, carpet, glass, upholstery, and other things that are hard to do on a street car. Easy to do on a race car.

f) The LTWs don't have sun roofs (less weight). LTWs weigh some 200 pounds or so less than a stripped non-LTW, but since there are no stripped 95 non-LTWs, the difference is more like 300 - 375 pounds.

g) You are still comparing a 2.5L engine to a 3.2L engine.

Having driven a 95 LTW (mine) and a non-LTW pretty close together (and the owner of the non-LTW did the same) the LTW is WAY over the class of the non-LTW.

Yes, you can build one, but long term you are probably going to spend more than getting a LTW. If you want a track car, build it, don't potentially sacrifice a LTW for that. Or maybe go ahead, trash a LTW or two, makes teh value of mine go up.


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