# BMW vs. Mercedes European Delivery Programs



## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

JSpira said:


> Conquest is an automotive industry term that is used to describe a manufacturer´s bonus that is applied to the deal when luring a competitive brand customer in. For example, a BMW owner would be eligible for a Mercedes-Benz conquest (the field would not be that narrow, it would probably include Cadillac, Lexus, and others). It´s not limited to higher-end brands but these programs are not always in place.


Probably wouldn't help me as MB & BMW are the only Marques I look at for daily drivers. Next up is an ED on a C63 AMG Coupe in Sept. This will replace the M5 as it has over 100K trouble free miles on it.


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

M FUNF said:


> Probably wouldn't help me as MB & BMW are the only Marques I look at for daily drivers. Next up is an ED on a C63 AMG Coupe in Sept. This will replace the M5 as it has over 100K trouble free miles on it.


Is MB offering ED discounts on AMG's?


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

dunderhi said:


> Is MB offering ED discounts on AMG's?


I don't know, but then BMW did not offer discounts on the M5 either, but I got one.


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

M FUNF said:


> I don't know, but then BMW did not offer discounts on the M5 either, but I got one.


I'll admit that I pondered doing the same thing a few years ago, but I really like getting a discount, so I went with a non-AMG model instead - it made Mrs Dunderhi happier too.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

dunderhi said:


> I'll admit that I pondered doing the same thing a few years ago, but I really like getting a discount, so I went with a non-AMG model instead - it made Mrs Dunderhi happier too.


Mama loves her E500 that is the only car I MAY NOT even think of replacing, even if an ED is part of the bargain. I do expect to get a significant discount on the AMG... Just as I did for the M5.


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## dencoop (Aug 17, 2005)

X3 Skier said:


> Since the x3 is no longer built in Europe, I am forced to the dark side for my "SAV".
> 
> Spent enough time in SC already so I would pass on PCD. This is a case of the program determining the vehicle. :angel:
> 
> Cheers


Why not order an X1 - coming 4Q this year and Yes you can do ED on it. It's not much smaller then the old X3.


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## BlackBerryCubed (Dec 5, 2007)

dencoop said:


> Why not order an X1 - coming 4Q this year and Yes you can do ED on it. It's not much smaller then the old X3.


Do you guys only do new bmw leasing or Benz as well ?


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

BlackBerryCubed said:


> Do you guys only do new bmw leasing or Benz as well ?


If you mean does MB offer a long term rental program (lease) as does BMW for ED the answer is yes.


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## BlackBerryCubed (Dec 5, 2007)

I am sorry, I actually meant if dencoop "exotic motor world" only lease out new bmws and benz or just bmws.


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

dencoop said:


> Why not order an X1 - coming 4Q this year and Yes you can do ED on it. It's not much smaller then the old X3.


The X1 has been coming to the USA for a couple of years now. I have given up hope. It would not suprise me if production was moved to SC before it is offered for sale here. 

Cheers


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## dencoop (Aug 17, 2005)

BlackBerryCubed said:


> I am sorry, I actually meant if dencoop "exotic motor world" only lease out new bmws and benz or just bmws.


We do Mercedes-Benz as well  contact me via PM for any specific questions or call.

Thank You!


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## dencoop (Aug 17, 2005)

X3 Skier said:


> The X1 has been coming to the USA for a couple of years now. I have given up hope. It would not suprise me if production was moved to SC before it is offered for sale here.
> 
> Cheers


It's now been officially confirmed 100%. I had a GLK and believe me even though it's a very nice SUV it's no BMW. Out of all the Benz SUVs it actually seems to handle the best although overall it did not put that special smile on my face when I drive it like the BMWs do...

Wait for the X1 or you will regret it, based on your sig it seems like you keep your cars a long time, don't make the wrong call....

Good Luck !


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## dencoop (Aug 17, 2005)

JSpira said:


> The program has changed - I will have more details soon.


Hey Jonathan !

Any News/details on the program yet / after having my Z4 this past summer I am looking to get another roadster/convert. this summer. Please let us know...

Thanks so much !


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

dencoop said:


> It's now been officially confirmed 100%.
> 
> Good Luck !


Pardon my skepticism but I have heard this song before from lots of sources including BMW.

Sorry but until an order form / build your own sheet shows up on BMWUSA, it is just another rumor to me. When it does show up there I will be in line for an ED BUT only if offered with a manual transmission.

I am watching the X1 board for other news so please continue with your status of USA availability inputs there.:thumbup:

Cheers


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

chrischeung said:


> Both ED programs are mutually exclusive. My opinion being that you take the program that comes with the car you choose - not to choose the car based on the program.


 :thumbup:

That makes sense indeed. :thumbup:
I would be interested in this route of delivery.
Curious how their redelivery works. I thought Dick or you did a Porsche ED Chris?


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## Kief (Dec 6, 2007)

JSpira said:


> The program has changed - I will have more details soon.


http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforu...o-charge-for-usa-customers-on-all-models.html

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/991/680480-european-delivery.html

Still doesn't compare to BMW's ED (passing the cost savings onto the customer) but at least now you don't have to pay. But they are throwng in n/c winter tire rental :thumbup:


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Resurrecting a somewhat old thread here, I know.



jparnes1 said:


> Not exactly true. They are passing along savings because the 7% would normally go to the dealer. But when you buy a car for ED, it doesn't come out of dealer inventory, so BMW gives it to the buyer instead. Yes it's an incentive, but it's no additional money for BMW.


Basically correct.

With a U.S. delivery sale from a dealer allocation the dealer would have the opportunity to earn a CSI bonus on the sale. That is where the 7% discount comes from. With an ED sale there is no opportunity for the CSI bonus to the dealer.



cwsqbm said:


> Not even close to true.
> 
> While the cars don't come out of inventory, neither would a car that a customer custom-orders, so that's not part of the equation.
> 
> The 7% comes strictly from BMW Ag / BMWNA, and has nothing to do with the dealership. If you pay $1000 over the US invoice for a normal US-delivery car or $1000 over the ED invoice for a ED car, the dealership makes roughly the same amount of money even though the check you write them is about 7% less. Otherwise, dealerships wouldn't sell ED cars.


Basically incorrect.

ED cars do NOT come out of a dealership's allocation. U.S. delivery custom ordered cars DO come out of the dealership's allocation. ED sales are "extra" sales for the dealership. ED sales do not count toward Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) bonus money. That is where the 7% savings comes from and that is the reason the majority of BMW dealers care very little about doing EDs and will not negotiate off of ED MSRP. The markup between ED MSRP and ED invoice is the only money the dealer has an opportunity to make on an ED sale.



NateXTR said:


> I thought that the cars that are custom ordered DO come out of inventory. As far as I know, every BMW center gets an annual allocation of vehicles. If you special order one, it comes from that allocation. ED vehicles, on the other hand, do not come from this allocation. They do, however, add to a BMW center's yearly total of cars, allowing them to actually get more vehicles allocated during the next year. If I understand correctly, extra slots can be sold to other centers...


Correct. U.S. delivery custom orders do come out of the dealership allocation.

In addition, certain models, those in high demand, short supply, specialty or new models, also come out of a dealership's allocation even when ordered for ED. A car such as the ///M5 would be a good example.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

tturedraider said:


> Basically incorrect.
> 
> ED cars do NOT come out of a dealership's allocation. U.S. delivery custom ordered cars DO come out of the dealership's allocation. ED sales are "extra" sales for the dealership. ED sales do not count toward Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI) bonus money. That is where the 7% savings comes from and that is the reason the majority of BMW dealers care very little about doing EDs and will not negotiate off of ED MSRP. The markup between ED MSRP and ED invoice is the only money the dealer has an opportunity to make on an ED sale.


All that's irrelevant to what I was saying. You're confusing allocation with inventory. A custom-ordered non-ED car comes out of allocation, but not out of inventory. The rest of what you said is just internal accounting tricks between BMW NA, BMW Ag, and the dealership. None of it has anything to do with why, as a whole, they can sell a ED car to me cheaper than a normal USA delivered car, which is where this discussion started.


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## Dino335 (Jun 5, 2007)

Does MB do the 14% 750 + Invoice ED price? Or is it strictly 7%?


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

JSpira said:


> A complete comparison of all current E.D. programs including BMW and MB is on the last page of my recent article on European Delivery Programs. Each program has its own pluses and minuses but it's really one's choice of car that should make the decision.





chrischeung said:


> Both ED programs are mutually exclusive. My opinion being that you take the program that comes with the car you choose - not to choose the car based on the program.


+1 I would never consider MBZ because it is not the ultimate driving machine. Don't like the way they drive, the styling, the only redeeming feature is that they are German origin!!

However I would have to consider an Audi if they offered a similar program. Maybe Lexus too, though the Japanese just don't seem to get the benefit of Euro (err Tokyo)delivery :rofl:


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Does MB or Volvo require the VAT like Audi?


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Boraxo said:


> +1 I would never consider MBZ because it is not the ultimate driving machine. Don't like the way they drive, the styling, the only redeeming feature is that they are German origin!!
> 
> Your ignorance is showing!:rofl::bigpimp::rofl:


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

Dino335 said:


> Does MB do the 14% 750 + Invoice ED price? Or is it strictly 7%?


It is a straight 7% plus free shipping, hotel, and local travel. It works out to be about 8% with zero negotiation required.



Boraxo said:


> +1 I would never consider MBZ because it is not the ultimate driving machine. Don't like the way they drive, the styling, the only redeeming feature is that they are German origin!!


I would rank my SL550 as one of the nicest cars I have ever owned. The SLS GT roadster is the car I want more than any other.



Boraxo said:


> However I would have to consider an Audi if they offered a similar program. Maybe Lexus too, though the Japanese just don't seem to get the benefit of Euro (err Tokyo)delivery :rofl:


Audi does have an ED program, but it's onlya 5% discount.



3ismagic# said:


> Does MB or Volvo require the VAT like Audi?


Nope, Porsche and Audi are the only ones.


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## AggieKnight (Dec 26, 2008)

dunderhi said:


> Nope, Porsche and Audi are the only ones.


From my understanding this is not _entirely_ accurate.

Porsche changed their program last year such that the dealer can put up the VAT for the customer instead. Now, I have not personally attempted to convince a dealer to do that, but the option is certainly out there now.

When the lease is up on my wife's Porsche (2 more years), I suspect we will find out as she is dying to ED one of "her" cars. Porsche changed the program in between when we ordered her car and when it was delivered...something she is slightly bitter about.


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## 640GC (Mar 22, 2012)

dunderhi said:


> I would rank my SL550 as one of the nicest cars I have ever owned. The SLS GT roadster is the car I want more than any other.


Man, you took the words right out of my mouth.

When the 2003 SL500 was introduced, it was the first car that made me say I've got to have it. Ten years later, it's still a joy to drive. I would love to see an SLS GT roadster in my future. I love our BMW 640GC as a luxury sedan for comfortable road trips, but the SL, it's the one that makes me grin from ear to ear after all these years, every time I get behind the wheel.


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

640GC said:


> Man, you took the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> When the 2003 SL500 was introduced, it was the first car that made me say I've got to have it. Ten years later, it's still a joy to drive. I would love to see an SLS GT roadster in my future. I love our BMW 640GC as a luxury sedan for comfortable road trips, but the SL, it's the one that makes me grin from ear to ear after all these years, every time I get behind the wheel.


Great minds think alike. I came close to getting an SL550 this time around, but BMW's sales incentives were just too enticing.


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## ixsomerset (Nov 30, 2012)

It might be mentioned the architecture of BMW Welt is a tad more impressive than the Mercedes facility...


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

ixsomerset said:


> It might be mentioned the architecture of BMW Welt is a tad more impressive than the Mercedes facility...


That may be true, today,but if you had ever taken delivery at the old Freiman Center you would know why BMW had to build the Welt. Besides the delivery center is the least of my considerations in doing an ED.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

We cross shopped Audi Q5's against the BMW X3 for wifey. I had an interesting discussion about Audi Euro Delivery. You have to write out a check to the dealership to cover the German tax if you do not turn your car back in with specified months. The dealer holds the check and does not cash it provided you turn your Euro Delivery Audi in, in a timely manner. 

Audi makes fine cars. The Q5 is fine, however the X3 is better IMO. That is what we ordered.


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## extremeromance (Sep 14, 2010)

dunderhi said:


> It is a straight 7% plus free shipping, hotel, and local travel. It works out to be about 8% with zero negotiation required.
> 
> When you say zero negotiation required, does that mean its about 7-8 percent off msrp? Or off us invoice?


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

pharding said:


> We cross shopped Audi Q5's against the BMW X3 for wifey. I had an interesting discussion about Audi Euro Delivery. You have to write out a check to the dealership to cover the German tax if you do not turn your car back in with specified months. *The dealer holds the check and does not cash* it provided you turn your Euro Delivery Audi in, in a timely manner.
> 
> Audi makes fine cars. The Q5 is fine, however the X3 is better IMO. That is what we ordered.


This is not true! I personally knew a Bimmerfest member, who ED Q5 for his wife 2 yrs ago. His check was cashed. If you read ED reports at AudiWorld for the past few years (it will take you a few hrs - not that many compare to Bimmerfest) - the are few cases when they never cashed check and few who cashed next day.
19% VAT tax from $50K car up front - this kill all Audi ED appreciative.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

pharding said:


> We cross shopped Audi Q5's against the BMW X3 for wifey. I had an interesting discussion about Audi Euro Delivery. You have to write out a check to the dealership to cover the German tax if you do not turn your car back in with specified months. The dealer holds the check and does not cash it provided you turn your Euro Delivery Audi in, in a timely manner.
> 
> Audi makes fine cars. The Q5 is fine, however the X3 is better IMO. That is what we ordered.


2015 is last year for Q5 ED - they will start production of Q5 in Mexico.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

For European Deliveries, BMW calculates residual based on US MSRP rather than ED MSRP; what about MB or Audi?


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

skier said:


> For European Deliveries, BMW calculates residual based on US MSRP rather than ED MSRP; what about MB or Audi?


Audi state on their web site - 5%.
The are no clear description any ware about ED price, Some happy drivers reported more than 5% it's depend on your negotiation skills.



> Vehicle Qualification and Pricing
> 
> According to Audi ED Website the following models are available through the European Delivery Program less the suggested published MSRP discount. The final selling price is determined by the dealer.
> Audi A3 Models up to 3%
> ...


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)




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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

MB330 said:


> Audi state on their web site - 5%.
> The are no clear description any ware about ED price, Some happy drivers reported more than 5% it's depend on your negotiation skills.


Yeah, that's the Audi ED discount pricing, not what I'm looking for though.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

ixsomerset said:


> It might be mentioned the architecture of BMW Welt is a tad more impressive than the Mercedes facility...


If you really care, you can get your Benz, drive it to the Welt, park it outside and take a photo. Then go in and enjoy the Welt. Knock yourself out and tag along with a 'Fester and experience the lounge and delivery. You could also argue that Munich offers more than Stuttgart, and there are more flights to Munich than Stuttgart, etc.

I personally wouldn't get a car I didn't want just because the delivery building, or the delivery city was better.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

Dino335 said:


> Does MB do the 14% 750 + Invoice ED price? Or is it strictly 7%?


The question is how skillful a negotiator are *you*? Many of us have done better than a 7% discount from US MSRP on Mercs

dk


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

MB330 said:


> Audi state on their web site - 5%.
> The are no clear description any ware about ED price, Some happy drivers reported more than 5% it's depend on your negotiation skills.


Yep - mine was about 9% off of US MSRP, and although I wrote a check for the VAT the dealer committed to not cashing it and they were true to their word. If the dealer doesn't cash the VAT check it doesn't matter if you write a check for $10 or $100K.

If you aren't comfortable negotiating a deal you like buy something else.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

dkreidel said:


> Yep - mine was about 9% off of US MSRP, and although I wrote a check for the VAT the dealer committed to not cashing it and they were true to their word. If the dealer doesn't cash the VAT check it doesn't matter if you write a check for $10 or $100K.
> 
> If you aren't comfortable negotiating a deal you like buy something else.


dkreidel,
I totally agreed with you that amount is doesn't matter if dealer not cashed. And I read few post when user reported that their check was not cashed. But I also read reports and talk to my friends, who's check was cashed next day.
What I trying to say - it's all in hands of your negotiation skills and how honest your SA.
But if I just payed for my car, plain tickets to Europe and reserve few hotels - I maybe not have extra $9500 on my checking account (or credit card). I better use this amount during my trip


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

MB330 said:


> What I trying to say - it's all in hands of your negotiation skills and how honest your SA.
> But if I just payed for my car, plain tickets to Europe and reserve few hotels - I maybe *not have extra $9500 on my checking account (or credit card). I better this amount during my trip*


Amen brother :thumbup:


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## NateXTR (Aug 8, 2006)

I was in hot negotiations with our local Audi dealer for a new Allroad. We agreed on the price (MSRP -5% and I was able to get the holiday cash and $500 conquest cash) but they would not budge on the residual. They calculated the residual on the US MSRP. Period. The finance guy was shocked when I explained that BMW does it a different (better) way. In the end, I just couldn't do it (not to mention that the dealer could not assure me that they wouldn't deposit my VAT check).


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

Problem that I saw - my local dealership not interesting to sell me car for ED - first off - two guys that I talk to had no idea what is ED stand for and that Audi had this program. He listen my story about my ED with his jive dropping to the floor. At he end after me spending 20 min explain him all process he ask me one question - why do you need all this problem - I will sell you car with the same 5% discount straight from the lot. I walk away. You can't teach idiot new tricks. :tsk:
Audi missing big opportunity and not interesting in education of their own employee - that way Audi ED forum is almost dead. 200 Audi cars sold thru ED in 2010 compare to 2000 BMW or Volvo. :tsk:


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

MB330 said:


> Problem that I saw - my local dealership not interesting to sell me car for ED - first off - two guys that I talk to had no idea what is ED stand for and that Audi had this program. He listen my story about my ED with his jive dropping to the floor. At he end after me spending 20 min explain him all process he ask me one question - why do you need all this problem - I will sell you car with the same 5% discount straight from the lot. I walk away. You can't teach idiot new tricks. :tsk:
> Audi missing big opportunity and not interesting in education of their own employee - that way Audi ED forum is almost dead. 200 Audi cars sold thru ED in 2010 compare to 2000 BMW or Volvo. :tsk:


Yea, one does have to educate the Audi dealers on how this works :thumbdwn: I was fortunate in that my dealer had done a couple of ED's prior to mine and was willing to haggle.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

dkreidel said:


> Yea, one does have to educate the Audi dealers on how this works :thumbdwn: I was fortunate in that my dealer had done a couple of Ed's prior to mine and was willing to haggle.


Give them time. BMW has been known to have CAs go through the ED experience. Once we see Audi CAs start to do that I'm sure we'll see more traction from them.


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

dunderhi said:


> It is a straight 7% plus free shipping, hotel, and local travel. It works out to be about 8% with zero negotiation required.


To add to this, it is possible to negotiate more than the advertised 7%. Together with the no destination charge and the other perks (free taxi vouchers and hotel for a night - even a really nice lunch), it is possible to get very close to the 13+% that you can get for a BMW ED. I think it is the first post here where you can see MB dealers get a 10% commission for ED!


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

Stavrs said:


> To add to this, it is possible to negotiate more than the advertised 7%. Together with the no destination charge and the other perks (free taxi vouchers and hotel for a night - even a really nice lunch), it is possible to get very close to the 13+% that you can get for a BMW ED. I think it is the first post here where you can see MB dealers get a 10% commission for ED!


Congrats on getting an MB dealer to negotiate on an ED. I've read numerous posts where people have tried and failed to get a better deal. I tried 3 different dealers myself with no luck.


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

dunderhi said:


> Congrats on getting an MB dealer to negotiate on an ED. I've read numerous posts where people have tried and failed to get a better deal. I tried 3 different dealers myself with no luck.


Thanks! Knowing that they have a 10% commission should help a lot - just offer to split it. That still leaves 5% for the dealer which seems like a very good profit - over $3500 in a CLS case for the same paperwork a BMW CA has to do for usually less than $1k. I never understood why the majority of MB dealers do not discount ED more than the standard 7% - but you are right, most do not.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Stavrs said:


> Thanks! Knowing that they have a 10% commission should help a lot - just offer to split it. That still leaves 5% for the dealer which seems like a very good profit - over $3500 in a CLS case for the same paperwork a BMW CA has to do for usually less than $1k. I never understood why the majority of MB dealers do not discount ED more than the standard 7% - but you are right, most do not.


MB does not consider ED cars in volume sales computations, nor does it offer any other profit to the dealer over the 10%, there is a greater profit overall for regular US sales.


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## ixsomerset (Nov 30, 2012)

chrischeung said:


> If you really care, you can get your Benz, drive it to the Welt, park it outside and take a photo. Then go in and enjoy the Welt. Knock yourself out and tag along with a 'Fester and experience the lounge and delivery. You could also argue that Munich offers more than Stuttgart, and there are more flights to Munich than Stuttgart, etc.
> 
> I personally wouldn't get a car I didn't want just because the delivery building, or the delivery city was better.


I know this may mean little to some, but a lot of the attraction to me is the sense of occasion of the delivery - making it a special day. The architecture and scale of BMW Welt is amazing (I visited several years back while there on business). Call it icing on the cake - I call it "the main attraction".

My expectation is that Mercedes are typically priced slightly higher than equivalent BMW models, so I would expect the Mercedes delivery building to convey an appropriately increased sense of occasion. Didn't look like it...


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

M FUNF said:


> MB does not consider ED cars in volume sales computations, nor does it offer any other profit to the dealer over the 10%, there is a greater profit overall for regular US sales.


Yes but the same goes for BMW and they don't give to dealers a 10% hidden commission for ED. In other words an MB dealer who splits the 10% with the customer will still make over $3500 for a CLS ED. A BMW dealer would make about $1k or less based on the pricing people here get for a similarly priced BMW model. In both cases cars do not come out of allocation, I don't think, and involve the same amount of time of work for the dealer.

Unless you are saying that MB dealers are used to much larger profit per car than $3.5k and anything else not worth being involved with. But for US delivery a lot of people can get MB cars very close to invoice and I doubt the rest of the incentives for the dealer are that much.

I am not a dealer though - just know it is doable to negotiate since I have done it.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Stavrs said:


> Yes but the same goes for BMW and they don't give to dealers a 10% hidden commission for ED. In other words an MB dealer who splits the 10% with the customer will still make over $3500 for a CLS ED. A BMW dealer would make about $1k or less based on the pricing people here get for a similarly priced BMW model. In both cases cars do not come out of allocation, I don't think, and involve the same amount of time of work for the dealer.
> 
> Unless you are saying that MB dealers are used to much larger profit per car than $3.5k and anything else not worth being involved with. But for US delivery a lot of people can get MB cars very close to invoice and I doubt the rest of the incentives for the dealer are that much.
> 
> I am not a dealer though - just know it is doable to negotiate since I have done it.


I may be wrong but my conversations with the dealer are that the actual income to the dealership is very close to the same whichever vehicle you buy. My dealer is a BMW\MB dealership and whatever car I buy makes no difference to him. And yes they did give me a better price than was expected on both the M5 and the C63. Additionally they are giving me an ED car next fall to pick up for the dealership when I am in Stuttgart for my "German" daughter's wedding. If the dealer wanted to he could eat the whole 10% and make nothing on the deal and still make a profit as long as you bring the car in to that dealership for service.:thumbup:


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

M FUNF said:


> I may be wrong but my conversations with the dealer are that the actual income to the dealership is very close to the same whichever vehicle you buy. My dealer is a BMW\MB dealership and whatever car I buy makes no difference to him. And yes they did give me a better price than was expected on both the M5 and the C63. Additionally they are giving me an ED car next fall to pick up for the dealership when I am in Stuttgart for my "German" daughter's wedding. If the dealer wanted to he could eat the whole 10% and make nothing on the deal and still make a profit as long as you bring the car in to that dealership for service.:thumbup:


But is he giving you the same price - close to 13% off MSRP for either brand?

BMW dealers selling ED cars make no additional profit beyond the amount over ED invoice for the car.

MB dealers make the 10% hidden commission after the 7% ED discount is subtracted and as far as I know this is it too - no additional profit.

This excludes any financing profit such as higher MFs etc.

Are you saying something different?


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

Boraxo said:


> +1 I would never consider MBZ because it is not the ultimate driving machine. Don't like the way they drive, the styling, the only redeeming feature is that they are German origin!!
> 
> However I would have to consider an Audi if they offered a similar program. Maybe Lexus too, though the Japanese just don't seem to get the benefit of Euro (err Tokyo)delivery :rofl:


So you choose a car based on marketing slogan? MB has 'The Best or Nothing'. Audi has "Truth in engineering' BTW, BMW is changing the slogan, are you changing your mind.


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## goteamblue2004 (Jun 21, 2013)

Does anyone for the Mercedes have any references of dealerships that were willing to split the 10% commission as I am in the market for a 2014 E-Class with ED.

Thanks!


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

goteamblue2004 said:


> Does anyone for the Mercedes have any references of dealerships that were willing to split the 10% commission as I am in the market for a 2014 E-Class with ED.
> 
> Thanks!


If this is the first MB you will be buying from the dealership, fergitaboutit.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

goteamblue2004 said:


> Does anyone for the Mercedes have any references of dealerships that were willing to split the 10% commission as I am in the market for a 2014 E-Class with ED.
> 
> Thanks!


I agree with the poster above. Chances of getting additional discount over the standard ED deal are slim.

I just completed paperwork for a 2014 MB E350 ED and the max discount I was able to get after giving it everything I had was 1 service or $400 off.

MD dealerships were not really that interested in doing the ED. It seems like they do it because they have to. I also got the feeling that they are not used to giving out discounts at all, probably because their clients are usually seasoned, wealthy and older. The discounts they give out are usually just manufacturer support funds that they forward to the customer.

I don't think there is a 10% commission atleast not anymore. This is the only place on the net that talks about the commission and there is not real proof.


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## goteamblue2004 (Jun 21, 2013)

This is not my first MB. This would be my 3rd actually. 

The 10% commission is in fact still in place (why would any dealer do a ED if there was nothing in it for them?).

Never hurts to have multiple dealerships to try and work out a deal with especially on a ED since it can really come from any dealer in the country.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

goteamblue2004 said:


> This is not my first MB. This would be my 3rd actually.
> 
> The 10% commission is in fact still in place (why would any dealer do a ED if there was nothing in it for them?).
> 
> Never hurts to have multiple dealerships to try and work out a deal with especially on a ED since it can really come from any dealer in the country.


Pushed very very hard at 4 different dealerships and only one budged. I have bought 10 cars in the last 9 years, so I know how to deal with these guys..... Buying this one has been the hardest. Maybe its a DC area thing, people have too much money to throw away here.

I guess I could have gone out of state, but doing that would have been a massive pain when it came to paperwork. Especially considering how busy I always am.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

achopra said:


> I guess I could have gone out of state, but doing that would have been a massive pain when it came to paperwork. Especially considering how busy I always am.


Unless MB requires any special paperwork, the sale and ED paperwork wasn't a big deal for me buying from a West coast dealer. I think it was a total of 3 FedEx shipments to get documents and payments taken care of (deposit, EDPO documents and then final sale documents). Maybe 1 or 2 phone calls. Filled out my paperwork on my own time as well which was a nice benefit vs. having to make an extra trip to the dealer for each phase.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

chrischeung said:


> And increase the selling price to compensate? I actually would like to have it the way it currently is. I don't mind taking the train, and I have a boatload of points to use on hotels.


Many of us dont have work sponsored points, so the vouchers are actually nice.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

achopra said:


> Many of us dont have work sponsored points, so the vouchers are actually nice.


But you've got money, right? And you have access to it constantly. Like 99% of BMW ED buyers.

Or you're saying you'd rather have BMW raise prices by say 0.5-1%, and offer a hotel and taxi voucher? It's like the "free" month for leases. BMW raised the MF by 0.003. 95% of the time, BMW doesn't give freebies when they don't have to.

I'm assuming everyone here is discussing things within reason and logic. Meaning - at the end of the day, the buyer is picking up the tab. If not, then I propose BMW also pays for the car for free (buyer still pays accomodation and airfare). However, buyer doesn't get a choice of car. They get given what BMW doesn't want. Why stop at a free hotel night?


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

alee said:


> All this presumes people want exactly the same experience. At the end of the day someone has to pay for the freebies. The question is why should I pay for freebies I don't want and won't take advantage of. Perhaps BMW can offer an options list to their ED experience instead. From the "toss me the keys and let me drive" experience all the way to the "treat me like a king, give me the best of everything at pre-negotiated rates". I'd certainly land somewhere in between.


I think you have to take the plans as they are. BMW has their plan and MB has theirs. I usually use the free night somewhere during the trip as we have family near Stuttgart so I do not need a hotel in Stuttgart. The taxi voucher is convenient as I usually arrive early morning go straight to the delivery center pick up the car and am on the road by noon. Regardless of which program you use you still need to get from the airport to the delivery center or hotel and then to the delivery center. These cost must be included in the overall cost of doing ED for comparison purposes. Also be sure to include the delivery charge by BMW that is waived by MB and again there is no real final cost difference. The real determining factor is, what car do you want?:thumbup:


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

chrischeung said:


> I was expressing my opinion. Not fact. I'm with alee as above.
> 
> I'm not talking about the touring plans that Benz offers. But rather things like BMW track days in Munich for example, ability to drive unique to Europe BMWs etc. Something difficult to arrange.


What track in Munich? I just did 3 days at Road America with AMG in a high performance prep course for the SLS series and MB picked up $1000.00 of the cost. With the M5 I got pretty low speed course in SC not the same as 155 down the front straight then braking HARD for turn 1..


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

M FUNF said:


> What track in Munich?


That's my point. I don't know of one. But if there is one, BMW likely would and would be better than me in arranging it. It's an example. Perhaps there is no track in Munich. Perhaps there is - I sometimes hear about DTM races on tracks I've never heard of. There may be an indoor kart track. Though that would probably not have a good tie in for BMW.

But in my opinion, BMW would be better served by offering unique access experiences, rather than "easy" things like hotels and taxis. Offer things that build more loyalty for the effort and buck. I'd say a $150 unique BMW experience, whatever it is, would build more loyalty than a $150 hotel night. Something like your AMG experience at Road America - I'm assuming you liked it? But with BMW in Bavaria.


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## lexvectigal (May 23, 2013)

alee said:


> A free night and a free flight would be nice icing, but not if that cost gets passed on.


+1. While the experience in Europe was spectacular, and I hope one day to be fortunate enough to do it all again, it's the savings that attracted me to the program and what I continue to smile about every day.

Has anyone on here done an Audi ED? I stumbled upon the ED facility while I was visiting the museum in Ingolstadt, and it didn't feel nearly as exciting as the Welt (it was Sunday though). I am curious about how their program stacks up to BMW's and MB's. I hope this isn't considered threadjacking... :angel:


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

100% of people choose the car first. Then find where they can get the best price. They may change to a different car if pricing is not as expected. Then they just take whatever program is offered by that manufacturer. I'm not answering your question directly, but trying to point out that it is really a moot point.

But if someone can show me where someone got a Volvo because of their ED program, I'd be surprised.


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## lexvectigal (May 23, 2013)

Absolutely - it's all about the car. I had the opportunity to get a comparable non-ED Audi at a better price than my BMW, but still chose the BMW because I loved the BMW more. I was just curious if people had a positive experience with the Audi program, as I've heard very little about it.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

From what I've seen on the web, only true Audi diehards or petrolheads do the Audi ED program. It's not unique enough to be a factor. 99% of the time, most folks get a better deal with an Audi off the lot.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

chrischeung said:


> But you've got money, right? And you have access to it constantly. Like 99% of BMW ED buyers.
> 
> Or you're saying you'd rather have BMW raise prices by say 0.5-1%, and offer a hotel and taxi voucher? It's like the "free" month for leases. BMW raised the MF by 0.003. 95% of the time, BMW doesn't give freebies when they don't have to.
> 
> I'm assuming everyone here is discussing things within reason and logic. Meaning - at the end of the day, the buyer is picking up the tab. If not, then I propose BMW also pays for the car for free (buyer still pays accomodation and airfare). However, buyer doesn't get a choice of car. They get given what BMW doesn't want. Why stop at a free hotel night?


I have the money but dont have the time. It is less time spent on bookings, filling gas (MB delivers with a full tank of gas), looking at transportation options and maps. There is value in convenience. Like M_FUNF mentioned, taxi vouchers and probably a gas voucher would be welcome additions.

I don't know WTH you are talking about when you go into the 'logic' bit, because if seems like you argue for the sake of arguing.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

achopra said:


> I don't know WTH you are talking about when you go into the 'logic' bit, because if seems like you argue for the sake of arguing.


I argue for the sake of making my opinion. It may be wrong. And I welcome the opinion of others. I also do it to encourage discussion and thought - often things that people may not have considered or forgotten. I'm forgetful as well. In the case of logic, this refers to those wanting a "free ride". Those that assume that BMW would offer something for nothing. It just doesn't seem reasonable based on my experience. Just my way of grounding the thread in reason, else we go off into the unlikely. But if that's the overall choice, that's also OK.

I also don't usually present my opinion, if there is nothing new to offer in the discussion already. Instead of saying "hotels and taxi", I'm also bringing foward an idea of "unique BMW experiences". I'm hopeful that someone from BMW ED may read this and perhaps give them an extra idea. Even more so if others agree. If not, that's fine. Out of 100 ideas there may be 1 good. But you need the 100 ideas to get the good.

You make a valid point on time and convenience. But for most people, and this is also my opinion, they'd rather have flexibility and potential savings than convenience. I have paid for convenience (and quality etc.), but I don't recall ever paying for the convenience of someone booking a hotel or arranging transportation for me when I had an easy option to do it myself. It also increases the knowledge of the city as someone does the research. And I also think that is one of BMW's goals. To transfer some of that knowledge of Munich and not just BMW. From my experience, BMW is more than a German company - it's a Bavarian company. Worn with pride.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

lexvectigal said:


> +1. While the experience in Europe was spectacular, and I hope one day to be fortunate enough to do it all again, it's the savings that attracted me to the program and what I continue to smile about every day.
> 
> Has anyone on here done an Audi ED? I stumbled upon the ED facility while I was visiting the museum in Ingolstadt, and it didn't feel nearly as exciting as the Welt (it was Sunday though). I am curious about how their program stacks up to BMW's and MB's. I hope this isn't considered threadjacking... :angel:


Audi's ED program is not as good. They have a lower discount, but that it not the issue. The problem is that there are too many hurdles in place to take care off.

At face value, the program is as follows



> up to 5% off of MSRP
> 
> 
> Transportation from the Franz Josef Strauss Munich Airport or the Ingolstadt Train Station to one of the two 4-star or five-star hotels offered by the Audi European Delivery Program.
> ...


Looks okayish right? The problems are that

1) Most Audi Sales Associates dont know anything about European Delivery.
2) *You need to prepay the 19% VAT tax to the dealer before taking delivery*. The dealer refunds you the money once you dropoff the car and return back to the US. 
3) For people that lease, the residuals on Audi suck! Also I am not sure if Audi lets customers use the special lease rates on European Deliveries. So you might have to use the standard rate which is quite high. 
4) The discount is 'up to 5%' which from what I have read on Audi Forums is a firm 5%. It is difficult to get dealers to give further discounts.

So, If you buy/finance and have the 19% in extra cash or can convince the dealer not to cash the 19% VAT check. It is doable.

On a side note, Love the S4 and A7, If they had better terms I might have bought both.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

chrischeung said:


> That's my point. I don't know of one. But if there is one, BMW likely would and would be better than me in arranging it. It's an example. Perhaps there is no track in Munich. Perhaps there is - I sometimes hear about DTM races on tracks I've never heard of. There may be an indoor kart track. Though that would probably not have a good tie in for BMW.
> 
> But in my opinion, BMW would be better served by offering unique access experiences, rather than "easy" things like hotels and taxis. Offer things that build more loyalty for the effort and buck. I'd say a $150 unique BMW experience, whatever it is, would build more loyalty than a $150 hotel night. Something like your AMG experience at Road America - I'm assuming you liked it? But with BMW in Bavaria.


Next time you are in Munich try to check into the Bayerischer Hof for $150.00 a night. On my last two MB ED's I have stayed there for 2 nights both times at MB expense. Additionally on one of those visits MB arranged a room for my daughter who came in from Prague for the 2 nights at the MB rate, still well above the $150 mark, that I paid. My personal opinion is neither program is superior just different, and the car you are purchasing or renting is the determining factor. diferent strokes for different folks.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

M FUNF said:


> Next time you are in Munich try to check into the Bayerischer Hof for $150.00 a night. On my last two MB ED's I have stayed there for 2 nights both times at MB expense. Additionally on one of those visits MB arranged a room for my daughter who came in from Prague for the 2 nights at the MB rate, still well above the $150 mark, that I paid. My personal opinion is neither program is superior just different, and the car you are purchasing or renting is the determining factor. diferent strokes for different folks.


Why would I do that if I don't have any interest in staying at the Bayerischer Hof? My wife is Marriott Platinum, so in Munich we almost always stay at the Renaissance or Marriott. Why don't we just say it costs more than $150 a night and call it a day? BMW also has pre-arranged rates with a few hotels with the ED program.

Let me highlight a certain point - the 2 nights from Benz likely came out of your pocket indirectly. It's really at your expense, rather than theirs. Isn't it like saying your car came with air conditioning at Benz's expense?


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

Porsche seems to have the worst program. BMW is a good program, in general. Saab had a more generous program. Volvo's is the closest to Saab, but has differences. Saab had:

9% off MSRP
$2000 check for travel or other expenses
taxi from the airport to the hotel, to the factory, and to the delivery location
no destination (shipping) charge
dinner
museum entrance fee waived
book and key ring
road atlas even if navigation ordered
discount on Saab parts and accessories
The car was covered and unveiled in a dramatic fashion. The car had a full tank of gas.
two weeks of insurance

No warning triangle or first aid kit
Drop off was not free unless at Bremerhaven or Gothenburg. Antwerp cost $80. Other cities were slightly more.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

Dave 20T said:


> Porsche seems to have the worst program. BMW is a good program, in general. Saab had a more generous program. Volvo's is the closest to Saab, but has differences. Saab had:
> 
> 9% off MSRP
> $2000 check for travel or other expenses
> ...


No wonder why Saab went under.

Volvo's program is very generous. But they have to be! Many of their models are a decade old now.

• Up to approximately 7% savings (varies by model) off the U.S. MSRP on U.S.-model Volvos 
• *Roundtrip tickets for 2 to Scandinavia**
• One free hotel night in Gothenburg, Sweden, the home of Volvo
• Fifteen day European Car Insurance coverage, including Swedish temporary registration
• An exciting Volvo factory tour, visit to the Volvo Cars Brand Experience Center or a visit to the Volvo Museum


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Dave 20T said:


> Porsche seems to have the worst program. BMW is a good program, in general. Saab had a more generous program. Volvo's is the closest to Saab, but has differences. Saab had:
> 
> 9% off MSRP
> $2000 check for travel or other expenses
> ...


But in the end all you left with is a ---- Saab Story :bigpimp:

I'm sorry I just couldn't resist.


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## ssilkes (Jan 3, 2007)

*Surprise here in Dallas*



chrischeung said:


> 100% of people choose the car first. Then find where they can get the best price. They may change to a different car if pricing is not as expected. Then they just take whatever program is offered by that manufacturer. I'm not answering your question directly, but trying to point out that it is really a moot point.
> 
> But if someone can show me where someone got a Volvo because of their ED program, I'd be surprised.


While I chose the Volvo C30 for the utility of the vehicle, the clincher was the ED program Volvo offered when I bought my first one in 2008, the first year of the C30 in the US. It was such a great program at that time, it was just dumb not to take advantage of it.

Fast forward to 2013, and I can tell you that Volvo ED is barely a ghost of the value it once offered; actually I expect Volvo to disappear from the US market very soon.

Agreed no sane person buys the ED program first and then the car, but a well designed ED program with genuine incentives can be a very persuasive influence. However I also have to say, with the changes in air travel/pricing, there is little in the way of true dollar savings; it is clearly about the experience, and I have to say after doing 5 ED's, it is an experience that one should not miss.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

lexvectigal said:


> Absolutely - it's all about the car. I had the opportunity to get a comparable non-ED Audi at a better price than my BMW, but still chose the BMW because I loved the BMW more. I was just curious if people had a positive experience with the Audi program, as I've heard very little about it.


Link to Audi ED web site












> According to Audi ED Website the following models are available through the European Delivery Program less the suggested published MSRP discount. The final selling price is determined by the dealer.
> Audi A4: Up to 5%
> Audi A5 Coupe and Cabriolet: Up to 5%
> Audi A6: Up to 5%
> ...





> The Audi European Delivery Vehicle Price Includes the Following Services
> 
> 1. Audi is pleased to offer a one room, one night, complimentary hotel accommodation for you and a guest at a choice of three Audi recommended hotels
> 2. Complimentary 15-day Insurance Coverage, Export License Plates, Vehicle Registration
> ...


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

achopra said:


> Audi's ED program is not as good. They have a lower discount, but that it not the issue. The problem is that there are too many hurdles in place to take care off.
> 
> At face value, the program is as follows
> 
> ...


Have you actually done an Audi ED? I have, twice and will be doing a third next year. I have a basis of comparison having done 12 or 13 BMW ED's, 2 Porsche ED's and one VW ED.

Audi is not just "doable", it's comparable or superior if you invest a modicum of time & effort to get a good deal. It is not, however, a spoon-fed program like BMW's, but I don't need or want that. I received great deals on my Audi ED's - you?

dk


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## Prost (Nov 23, 2005)

dkreidel said:


> Have you actually done an Audi ED? I have, twice and will be doing a third next year. I have a basis of comparison having done 12 or 13 BMW ED's, 2 Porsche ED's and one VW ED.
> 
> Audi is not just "doable", it's comparable or superior if you invest a modicum of time & effort to get a good deal. It is not, however, a spoon-fed program like BMW's, but I don't need or want that. I received great deals on my Audi ED's - you?
> 
> dk


VW ED?  What model? It will be fun to ED a GTI =)


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Prost said:


> VW ED?


Was very popular at one time - I have seen ads from the 60s and 70s. I think it cost $2000 for a Käfer


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

Prost said:


> VW ED?  What model? It will be fun to ED a GTI =)


1968 VW bug :thumbup: I think it was about $1,800 and included a great tour of the Wolfsburg factory. I also accompanied my parents on an ED of a '64 VW Variant 1500S


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Prost said:


> VW ED?  What model? It will be fun to ED a GTI =)


Still availalbe for some European customers - http://www.google.com/search?q=auto...e7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

Found this post on Audi ED forum that kind of tell everything you need to know about Audi ED mentality. This is personal opinion of one individual, but this is what I see happen with Audi ED process.



> To become a leader in ED, I feel Audi needs to develop a concierge mentality.
> With 200 EDs a year, an average of 17 a month, the ED program ought to easily
> give personal attention to each customer and their specific needs and interests.
> Sort of a boutique experience.
> ...


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

I'm resurrecting an old thread, but for those that have leased an MB for European delivery, how was your second lease payment handled? I've read that MB puts your payments on hold while the car is being shipped back to the US. Is that true?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I believe it's on hold but not waived.


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

the J-Man said:


> I'm resurrecting an old thread, but for those that have leased an MB for European delivery, how was your second lease payment handled? I've read that MB puts your payments on hold while the car is being shipped back to the US. Is that true?


First month is due when lease is signed, before ED but as close to that date as possible, and the second payment is due 60 days after so they cover a month. On the other hand, unlike BMW, Mercedes extends the lease term by a month for ED so if you go for a 36 month term you end up with 37.

Also with MB there are no destination charges ($925) and the ED MF markup should be 0.0002 (Instead of BMW's 0.0003) which you can also reduce it to 0.0001 with auto pay.

Finally, you can order from pretty much any Mercedes dealer in the US and still request for the car to be redelivered to the dealer closest to you at no cost.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

Stavrs said:


> First month is due when lease is signed, before ED but as close to that date as possible, and the second payment is due 60 days after so they cover a month. On the other hand, unlike BMW, Mercedes extends the lease term by a month for ED so if you go for a 36 month term you end up with 37.
> 
> Also with MB there are no destination charges ($925) and the ED MF markup should be 0.0002 (Instead of BMW's 0.0003) which you can also reduce it to 0.0001 with auto pay.


I can confim the above.

Did not know about the following. I guess theoretically, if one does not have trades, one can get a better price by shopping around.



> Finally, you can order from pretty much any Mercedes dealer in the US and still request for the car to be redelivered to the dealer closest to you at no cost.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

How is the residual value calculated by MB FS for European Deliveries - using US or ED MSRP?


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

skier said:


> How is the residual value calculated by MB FS for European Deliveries - using US or ED MSRP?


 I believe it is US MSRP as they don't have separate ED pricing like BMW. It's a flat 7% off US msrp.


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

Stavrs said:


> First month is due when lease is signed, before ED but as close to that date as possible, and the second payment is due 60 days after so they cover a month. On the other hand, unlike BMW, Mercedes extends the lease term by a month for ED so if you go for a 36 month term you end up with 37.
> 
> Also with MB there are no destination charges ($925) and the ED MF markup should be 0.0002 (Instead of BMW's 0.0003) which you can also reduce it to 0.0001 with auto pay.
> 
> Finally, you can order from pretty much any Mercedes dealer in the US and still request for the car to be redelivered to the dealer closest to you at no cost.


Thanks for this info. So, put simply, you could say that Mercedes ED leases have a 37 month term with the second payment covered by Mercedes, and with lease payments calculated on 36 months?

Financially, this method is more to the buyers benefit than BMW's system. Although BMW makes the second payment, the Mercedes MF savings amounts to about $360 over the life of a lease (assuming identical lease terms), but you also get 1 more month of use with Mercedes

Assuming a lease payment of about $600. 
BMW System: $600 for free second payment
Mercedes System: $360 money factor savings plus implied 1 month extra use at $600. 
Net Mercedes savings over life of lease: About $360.

Of course, this example assumes identically priced cars and leasing terms, but I think you'll always see a few hundred $ savings minimum with Mercedes. This further closes the pricng gap between the two programs.

Is my logic sound here?


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

skier said:


> How is the residual value calculated by MB FS for European Deliveries - using US or ED MSRP?


US MSRP without destination charge though.


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

Stavrs said:


> US MSRP without destination charge though.


That's a bummer. Too bad destination isn't included in MSRP. That would save at least $10-15/month on a lease.

What about multiple security deposits. I know Mercedes allows 10 vs 7 for BMW, but I think the deposit amount with Mercedes is before the MF discount is applied vs BMW where the deposits are calculated post MF discount?


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

the J-Man said:


> Thanks for this info. So, put simply, you could say that Mercedes ED leases have a 37 month term with the second payment covered by Mercedes, and with lease payments calculated on 36 months?
> 
> Financially, this method is more to the buyers benefit than BMW's system. Although BMW makes the second payment, the Mercedes MF savings amounts to about $360 over the life of a lease (assuming identical lease terms), but you also get 1 more month of use with Mercedes
> 
> ...


It depends how you see it and what you prefer. Personally I have never kept a leased vehicle for the full term.

If you wanted to do a 36 month lease, with BMW you get a 36 month lease and 35 payments and 0.0003 MF increase, with MB you get a 37 month lease and 36 payments with 0.0002 MF increase. I wouldn't count the auto pay since the 0.0001 MF discount is available to US and ED leases - not ED exclusive. The no destination charge is ED exclusive though.


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

the J-Man said:


> That's a bummer. Too bad destination isn't included in MSRP. That would save at least $10-15/month on a lease.
> 
> What about multiple security deposits. I know Mercedes allows 10 vs 7 for BMW, but I think the deposit amount with Mercedes is before the MF discount is applied vs BMW where the deposits are calculated post MF discount?


Also remember, you can get a much bigger discount than the 7% off MSRP mentioned on MBs web site.

If I remember correctly MB allows a max of 10 MSDs that discount the MF 0.00007 each.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

skier said:


> How is the residual value calculated by MB FS for European Deliveries - using US or ED MSRP?


US MSRP. There is no ED MSRP as such.. they just give you a 7% discount if you do a ED on the US MSRP


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

There's better information in this thread than any MB message board, that's for sure. 

Hoping that the 2015 c-class will be eligible for ED. Not sure how they will handle that since it will be built in both Alabama and Germany. :dunno:


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

achopra said:


> US MSRP. There is no ED MSRP as such.. they just give you a 7% discount if you do a ED on the US MSRP


How does a 7% discount off US MSRP compare to what you can negotiate on a US delivery?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using BimmerApp mobile app


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

Stavrs said:


> Also remember, you can get a much bigger discount than the 7% off MSRP mentioned on MBs web site.
> 
> If I remember correctly MB allows a max of 10 MSDs that discount the MF 0.00007 each.


I had a hard time getting "a much bigger discount than the 7% off MSRP mentioned on MBs web site". All I could manage after haggling with 4 dealers was $400 extra

As far as I know, MB Does not allow MSDs on ED. When I was at the financing table in June of this year and wanted to put down MSDs, the financing lady informed me that I can not do that. I asked them to produce the official language that says so and they actually did. They had a document on a MB letterhead that had guidelines for ED orders. One of the points said that MSDs could not be applied to EDs.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

rmorin49 said:


> How does a 7% discount off US MSRP compare to what you can negotiate on a US delivery?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using BimmerApp mobile app


You can do about as well or better (after customer, dealer, loyalty cash etc) on US delivery, especially late in the year. Apart from when a new model comes out and the supplies are short.

ED is all about the experience with MB, you dont save too much money unless you have points to burn on the air tickets.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

the J-Man;8046350
Hoping that the 2015 c-class will be eligible for ED. Not sure how they will handle that since it will be built in both Alabama and Germany. :dunno:[/QUOTE said:


> I have my doubts.


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

achopra said:


> I had a hard time getting "a much bigger discount than the 7% off MSRP mentioned on MBs web site". All I could manage after haggling with 4 dealers was $400 extra
> 
> As far as I know, MB Does not allow MSDs on ED. When I was at the financing table in June of this year and wanted to put down MSD's, the financing lady informed me that I can not do that. I asked them to produce the official language that says so and they actually did. They had a document on a MB letterhead that had guidelines for ED orders. One of the points said that MSD's could be applied to EDs.


Wow, no MSD's on euro delivery? That would be a deal breaker for me.


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

achopra said:


> I had a hard time getting "a much bigger discount than the 7% off MSRP mentioned on MBs web site". All I could manage after haggling with 4 dealers was $400 extra
> 
> As far as I know, MB Does not allow MSDs on ED. When I was at the financing table in June of this year and wanted to put down MSDs, the financing lady informed me that I can not do that. I asked them to produce the official language that says so and they actually did. They had a document on a MB letterhead that had guidelines for ED orders. One of the points said that MSDs could be applied to EDs.


I received a MUCH bigger discount than 7% for the 2013 CLS550 I got. You may not know this but MB dealers make a 10% commission for ED sales so everything is negotiable.

About MSDs, I never do them since I usually keep cars for less than a year and it is hard to find somebody to pay them when lease transferring, but I never heard of this and I can't see the reason you couldn't do them. It is a standard lease anyway. MBFS rules do vary by state though so it could possibly be where you are located. A dealer could confirm.


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## Stavrs (Sep 8, 2011)

the J-Man said:


> Wow, no MSD's on euro delivery? That would be a deal breaker for me.


I sent you a PM with the dealer I used the last time for MB ED to ask any questions. Really great experience. If you do, post back if you find out anything about MSDs for the benefit of others.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

Stavrs said:


> I sent you a PM with the dealer I used the last time for MB ED to ask any questions. Really great experience. If you do, post back if you find out anything about MSDs for the benefit of others.


PM me that dealer as well, I may do MB ED next summer.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

the J-Man said:


> There's better information in this thread than any MB message board, that's for sure.


No kidding, there is marginal information on ED on MB forums, particularly financial details.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

achopra said:


> US MSRP. There is no ED MSRP as such.. they just give you a 7% discount if you do a ED on the US MSRP


So does BMW - officially, you get 7% off US MSRP and they call it ED MSRP. With BMW however, there is a wealth of information on this site on BMW ED process and pricing, allowing keen buyer routinely get at least 10% off US MSRP, or xxx over ED Invoice. MB ED pricing and leasing details are anecdotal, but that doesn't mean there isn't an MB ED invoice price. You just don't know.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

rmorin49 said:


> How does a 7% discount off US MSRP compare to what you can negotiate on a US delivery?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using BimmerApp mobile app


Good question, looking at carsdirect.com, I see E350 for example, offered for 15% off US MSRP. Could be end of year, in stock only, etc deal. Nevertheless, that's much lower than official ED MB price. Is 15% off US MSRP possible for MB ED? Or - what is the reasonable % off for MB ED? (few more details like this and Jon will have to create MB ED section and welcome the folks from the dark :rofl

Time to go party, Happy New Year! :bigpimp:


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## basiluf (Dec 16, 2010)

the J-Man said:


> Thanks for this info. So, put simply, you could say that Mercedes ED leases have a 37 month term with the second payment covered by Mercedes, and with lease payments calculated on 36 months?
> 
> Financially, this method is more to the buyers benefit than BMW's system. Although BMW makes the second payment, the Mercedes MF savings amounts to about $360 over the life of a lease (assuming identical lease terms), but you also get 1 more month of use with Mercedes
> 
> ...


You can extend BMW leases as well. Not sure if you can do the same with a Mercedes.

Also, you should factor in service costs if you're comparing similar lease costs. You're $200 oil changes at the local MB dealer will add up.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using BimmerApp mobile app


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

basiluf said:


> You can extend BMW leases as well. Not sure if you can do the same with a Mercedes.
> 
> Also, you should factor in service costs if you're comparing similar lease costs. You're $200 oil changes at the local MB dealer will add up.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using BimmerApp mobile app


Yeah service cost is a good consideration. I think MB also charges a monthly fee for their version of BMW Assist as well as a separate fee for real time traffic info, which is totally stupid.


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

dkreidel said:


> Have you actually done an Audi ED? I have, twice and will be doing a third next year. I have a basis of comparison having done 12 or 13 BMW ED's, 2 Porsche ED's and one VW ED.
> 
> Audi is not just "doable", it's comparable or superior if you invest a modicum of time & effort to get a good deal. It is not, however, a spoon-fed program like BMW's, but I don't need or want that. I received great deals on my Audi ED's - you?
> 
> dk


So we're on the verge of an Audi Q5 ED. Are you dealing with an Audi dealer in CA that you would recommend. As you stated most are clueless, at least the ones I've been speaking with here in the SD area.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

HerrK said:


> So we're on the verge of an Audi Q5 ED. Are you dealing with an Audi dealer in CA that you would recommend. As you stated most are clueless, at least the ones I've been speaking with here in the SD area.


Try Audi Mission Viejo - you may have to bend their ear for a while but they should play ball.

dk


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

dkreidel said:


> Try Audi Mission Viejo - you may have to bend their ear for a while but they should play ball.
> 
> dk


Thanks will give them a try. Any recommended CA there?


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

HerrK said:


> Thanks will give them a try. Any recommended CA there?


The Sales Mgr I went through has since left. I've heard anecdotally that McKenna in Norwalk will work a good ED deal, but they are one of my least favorite Porsche/Audi/BMW dealers. If you try them maintain vigilance.


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## wmo168 (Mar 26, 2009)

*ED friendly dealer*

Does anyone know any dealer in the east coast that are ED friendly and offer no haggle ED pricing for MB? I am thinking on getting a GLA late this year or early next year.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

wmo168 said:


> Does anyone know any dealer in the east coast that are ED friendly and offer no haggle ED pricing for MB? I am thinking on getting a GLA late this year or early next year.


Walter Blum and Kathleen Baade at Helms Brothers have been easy to work with (2 cars so far) although I don't think any MB dealer is quite as haggle-free as some of the BMW dealers we all know and love here.

Feel free to mention my name when you contact him.


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