# The AutoBahn. Speed or Stau



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Stuka said:


> Uh, the Autobahn death rate is HALF of that of the U.S. Interstate, at almost double the average car speed. :dunno:
> 
> I say that is an acceptable death rate for a very efficient transportation system.:thumbup:


Good for you. The German freeway/motorway fatality rate is nearly three times that of the UK's. I wasn't necessarily comparing Germany to the US...


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## Dirtboy (Apr 19, 2002)

drbmw said:


> ... The Autobahn is smooth as glass in a majority of stretches. Even the country roads are in better shape than what we have got here in the USA.


  uhh, try autobahn A8 toward Munich. That is worse than most of the highways in the states... I was on it last night and thought I was gonna break my neck with all the bumps.... :rofl:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

johnf said:


> Except that not everyone driving the Autobahnen have this understanding. Until they do, such manuevers will remain dangerous no matter how good a driver may be. If you can convincingly argue they can be safe there is a former Mercedes test driver who would probably hire you for a large sum to get him out of prison.


I can't dispute the fact that there is a risk.

As for the Mercedes test driver, by looking at your profile, I am sure that you have read the details of the accident he was involved. The woman and her child, who was killed in the accident, was driving on the left lane in an Autobahn section with *3* lanes. The question remains ; what was she doing on the left lane ?


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> I am sure that you have read the details of the accident he was involved. The woman and her child, who was killed in the accident, was driving on the left lane in an Autobahn section with *3* lanes. The question remains ; what was she doing on the left lane ?


Well, that is the problem. There is a small fraction of people driving the Autobahn who don't, can't, or are unwilling to understand it, and that when stressed, react in a way that doesn't help anyone including themselves. Yes, some of those people could (or should) take the bus or train, but others can't because they live where the network is not good enough. So, tell them to stay on the Landstrasse? I am sure you have seen what happens there: I doubt that would make things any safer.

As long as you have people who are not prepared for high closing speed manuevers, those manuevers are going to be dangerous. It seems to me, that if those who enjoy speed don't recognize and accomodate that fact, eventually the system will. The German Autobahnen will get a general speed limit, like in the U.S., and that would be sad. (I mention the U.S. because there once were no superhighway speed limits in some states, other than, as in Germany, what was "reasonable and proper".)


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## drbmw (Oct 12, 2003)

Autobahn accidents in Germany are inevitable in a road system where 100 mph is often the cruising speed. The Germans have taken some steps to make this experience as safe as possible. First, no handheld cellphones can be used while driving. It is illegal. I'm not sure about handsfree cellphones. Second, semi-trucks are not allowed to drive in the left lane. They can pass, but must immediately move over. What a couple of simple yet practical concepts. These would sure work well in the US. Truckers think they own the roads. Careless cellphone drivers are often totally unaware of dangerous and stupid things they do while driving.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

3 yrs ab Deutschland im der U.S. Armee.....Schwetzingen - Spargel capital of Germany.

I got a ticket on A6 by the Frankfurt airport im my bosses' car going 227kph in a 120 zone. That hurt, total cost was over $700. They even make you pay for the picture. My boss (an 06) was NOT amused.

Took me over a year to figure out the radio in my first car (E21 316) - it kept switching to some kind of broadcast ..... and the guy was always saying "zwei kilometer stau"...you could not get any other functions to work. Finally one winter my local buddy (while he was WARMING his beer on the radiator in his room) explained that it was the traffic report that took over the radio and could prevent accidents from getting worse.

Man - I miss going to Fests and eatin' kartoffelpoofers. Dont really miss ridin' on streetcars in the summer with poor ventillation and crammed full of deodorant-lacking individuals. When I was getting off the plane in the Frankfurt airport and spyed the Dr. Muller's sex-kino shop on the main concours....I thought "I'm gonna like it here"...

I also miss saying "funf mark stuck". Guss that does not work with the Euro?


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

drbmw said:


> Second, semi-trucks are not allowed to drive in the left lane. They can pass, but must immediately move over. What a couple of simple yet practical concepts. These would sure work well in the US. Truckers think they own the roads.


You need to drive the autobahns between Hamburg and Frankfurt, a distance of approximately 310 miles, to understand what you said in theory is not true. It was very annoying to have a big rig pull into the passing lane and attempt to pass a slower big rig. Do you think the rig drivers care when they slow down your momentum? They are bigger, they rule the roads. Because of the rolling hilly terrain between Hamburg and Frankfurt, the rigs take forever to complete the pass. The driving experience was no fun.


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

Dave 330i said:


> Do you think the rig drivers care when they slow down your momentum? They are bigger, they rule the roads. Because of the rolling hilly terrain between Hamburg and Frankfurt, the rigs take forever to complete the pass. The driving experience was no fun.


People call this an "elephant race". You have to realize that most truck drivers are under considerable time pressure and can't afford to get stuck for hours behind some of the sluggish rigs that pass through Germany. I have found most drivers are pretty considerate. If they slow you down, they will thank you afterwards (though a lot of car drivers don't notice this).


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

I lived in Germany for about 10 years, 6 years in Hamburg and 4 in Frankfurt am Main and Wiesbaden... Those 10 years have been years of trying to beat my own speed record from Hamburg or Frankfurt to the Dutch border...   
My record for this 450 km track of Autobahn is about 2 hours and 12 minutes... 
But on one of my races back to Frankfurt I really nailed myself against the back of a Dutch Flower Truck... the Driver fell asleep and drifted over to the fast lane which was just past Koeln, after a wide turn... I came up with about 245 km/h in my Porsche and hit the truck with about 225 km/h, the only thing I remember a cop shining his maglite in my eyes and telling me not to move...


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## drbmw (Oct 12, 2003)

mgorgel said:


> I lived in Germany for about 10 years, 6 years in Hamburg and 4 in Frankfurt am Main and Wiesbaden... Those 10 years have been years of trying to beat my own speed record from Hamburg or Frankfurt to the Dutch border...
> My record for this 450 km track of Autobahn is about 2 hours and 12 minutes...
> But on one of my races back to Frankfurt I really nailed myself against the back of a Dutch Flower Truck... the Driver fell asleep and drifted over to the fast lane which was just past Koeln, after a wide turn... I came up with about 245 km/h in my Porsche and hit the truck with about 225 km/h, the only thing I remember a cop shining his maglite in my eyes and telling me not to move...


Whoa, don't leave us hanging. Finish the story. Injuries? Vehicle status. Police and rescue activity. Aftermath. Did you race again? Fill us in.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

mgorgel said:


> I lived in Germany for about 10 years, 6 years in Hamburg and 4 in Frankfurt am Main and Wiesbaden... Those 10 years have been years of trying to beat my own speed record from Hamburg or Frankfurt to the Dutch border...
> My record for this 450 km track of Autobahn is about 2 hours and 12 minutes...
> But on one of my races back to Frankfurt I really nailed myself against the back of a Dutch Flower Truck... the Driver fell asleep and drifted over to the fast lane which was just past Koeln, after a wide turn... I came up with about 245 km/h in my Porsche and hit the truck with about 225 km/h, the only thing I remember a cop shining his maglite in my eyes and telling me not to move...


:yikes:

My track record from Hamburg to Munich (777 km) is 4 hrs 50 mins


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Can someone post a link to the story about the Mercedes test driver?

I lived in Deutschland for 1 year, and was pretty much in heaven everytime I drove on an autobahn. I experienced my share of stau, but wasn't bothered. But, I didn't have to use it every day; only for weekend trips. Also, I'm from the Northeast US, which has some of the worst roads in the 3rd world. You know how some travel guides refer to "culture shock"? Well, I didn't have much of that adjusting to Germany. BUt, I had a lot coming back to the US--- everything just seemed so decrepit. Anyway, if I had friends and family over there, I think I'd still be there.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

drbmw said:


> Whoa, don't leave us hanging. Finish the story. Injuries? Vehicle status. Police and rescue activity. Aftermath. Did you race again? Fill us in.


Yeah you are right, turned out that my car spun about 8 times before coming to a halt at the emergency lane, both front airbags went off. I hit the truck with the left front of my car trying to steer away from it to the right and brake. 
Within 10 minutes the Autobahn Polizei was there and they left nothing to chance. The took me out of the car and secured me to a stretcher with a collar around my neck. Then transported me to a hospital in Koeln but after it turned out that nothing was broken or crushed, except for some minor cuts and bruses I was released. Spend the rest of the night in a hotel and went to take a look at my car the next day. I do have pictures of the car but they are in my parents attic in the Netherlands. The front of the car was totaly mangled but the passenger compartment was in good shape... 
I rented a Audi A4 and I was racing on the Autobahn again the next day... My manager told me to drive slower and that he did not want to have a burial anytime soon...:tsk:


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> :yikes:
> 
> My track record from Hamburg to Munich (777 km) is 4 hrs 50 mins


Slowest time Hamburg - Munich is about 11 hours (Stau bei Ingolstad)  
Fastest about 5 hrs 30 mins
I loved the stretch of Bremerhaven to Cuxhaven... NUR BLEIFUSS...:thumbup:


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

mgorgel said:


> Slowest time Hamburg - Munich is about 11 hours (Stau bei Ingolstad)
> Fastest about 5 hrs 30 mins
> I loved the stretch of Bremerhaven to Cuxhaven... NUR BLEIFUSS...:thumbup:


Indeed. That is where I do my high speed equipment testing.  I always wonder if I am about to drive off the edge of the world when I see the end of the Autobahn sign. The huge roundabout at the end is good fun: it's supposed to have a 60 km/h limit.

Most stretches of the Autobahn also get pleasantly empty as you near the border.

My fastest time, door-to-door, from Bremerhaven to a friend's flat in Copenhagen was 5 1/2 hours. I came so late to the boat in Puttgarden, I followed the train on to the ferry, parked behind it, and then we sailed.

It is harder to make such good time these days because there are so many more trucks.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

johnf said:


> My fastest time, door-to-door, from Bremerhaven to a friend's flat in Copenhagen was 5 1/2 hours. I came so late to the boat in Puttgarden, I followed the train on to the ferry, parked behind it, and then we sailed.
> 
> It is harder to make such good time these days because there are so many more trucks.


I went to Odense a couple of times (VERY nice GIRLS... ) and Kopenhagen too, loved the Tivoli what a nice park. That boat to Puttgarden, is that the one when you get off the boat in Denmark, you drive through the little town of Oll (Danish for beer...)? It's been soo long ago...
I was in the Dutch Army living in Seedorf and my apartment in Hamburg, used to go out in Bremen in the Altstadt, every weekend a riot what a great place...:thumbup: 
Then back to Hamburg on the 1... fastest time Bremen -> Hamburg 34 minutes... go go go...:violent:


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## johnf (Sep 16, 2003)

mgorgel said:


> That boat to Puttgarden, is that the one when you get off the boat in Denmark, you drive through the little town of Oll (Danish for beer...)?


The ferry from Puttgarden drops you off near Rødby. I think I drove into the town once, just long enough to get some fuel, before I was drawn away by the siren call of Copenhagen and northern Zealand.


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## drbmw (Oct 12, 2003)

You know what's amazing about the Autombahn and Germany? How the people of Germany have enjoyed their high speed hiway all these years, and paid through the nose with gas prices that hover around $4 per gallon. Two years ago that's what gas cost, so I'm sure it's even higher now. Cars don't get the best gas mileage at 160 km/hr.
Yet the Germans don't mind paying such high gas prices and driving their cars at Autobahn speeds where mileage economy is not priority. The one big difference between US cars and German cars is the improved average gas mileage that the German cars have. Otherwise, there would be no way that they could afford to drive. Image a Chevy Suburban on the Autobahn, getting 11 mpg? Lots of diesels over there. Why won't the US carmakers stop making these gas guzzling vehicles? Need to take a lesson from our European friends.


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