# 325i in Rain/Snow



## Lolita (Sep 22, 2004)

I have heard many different things about how the 325i operates in inclement weather. Some people SWEAR they will never drive their RWD Bimmer in any kind of bad, wet weather. Although part of me feels we should have sprung for the 325xi (there weren't many 2004 left at the end of August and did not offer the same rebates), I wanted to ask those of you who have actually driven the car to see how it performs in bad weather conditions. Some have suggested getting snow tires and weighing the car down with sand bags or something else of the sort, but I wanted to get some real opinions/experiences from drivers. I am not delusional and do not expect to drive my new baby in really bad weather (we also have a Tahoe), but just wanted to get a sense for what I may expect.


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## JCard (Jul 19, 2004)

Lolita said:


> I have heard many different things about how the 325i operates in inclement weather. Some people SWEAR they will never drive their RWD Bimmer in any kind of bad, wet weather. Although part of me feels we should have sprung for the 325xi (there weren't many 2004 left at the end of August and did not offer the same rebates), I wanted to ask those of you who have actually driven the car to see how it performs in bad weather conditions. Some have suggested getting snow tires and weighing the car down with sand bags or something else of the sort, but I wanted to get some real opinions/experiences from drivers. I am not delusional and do not expect to drive my new baby in really bad weather (we also have a Tahoe), but just wanted to get a sense for what I may expect.


I've actually been going back and forth wondering a lot of the same things here, but a lot of people here say that putting some snow tires on it should be alright, and comparable to the xi. So far the car has been great in the rain, I'm hoping for the same with other conditions ... good luck :thumbup:


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

If you're going to do any serious driving in the snow, say over 10 miles to work each way, and you're unsure of how you might be able to drive a RWD car like a 3-series (so that you might ask a question about whether you need snow tires on a car board :eeps: )...you probably need snow tires.

If you have experience with RWD and all season tires, and you have a really short commute, you can skip getting snow tires. For instance, my dad just drives his 540i with all seasons all year round, but he's retired and can sort of choose when he goes to his volunteer job.

Having snows mounted on a separate set of wheels that I can put on my car in an hour (with proper equipment...floor jack...) just removes any doubt that I can get to work the next morning even if we get a foot of snow. If it's more than a foot, they'll probably close the office I work in anyway, since I live in wimpy Philadelphia.

If you have trouble driving your 325 in the rain, you're driving like an idiot. With perfect 50/50 balance, forgiving handling and a zealous stability control system you should have zero problems.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

I've driven my 325i for the last 2 winters in Chicago with no problems. Granted, we haven't had real bad winters lately(knock wood), but with 2 or 3 inches of snow I've no problems. Mine is non-sport so I do have all seasons. If it really snows I wouldn't want to drive anything. I'll take the train and usually by the next day the plows have done there job. I do make sure to shovel a parking space if I have to park on the street. It never ceases to amaze me the people that back into a space that is full of snow and then can't believe it when they are stuck. I keep a shovel in the trunk all winter just in case.


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## eelnoraa (Oct 13, 2003)

I can give my input here. In rain, even heavy rain, RWD car should NOT be a problem. In fact, it should not be any different than FWD or even AWD if driven properly. Even with summer tires, I won't worry about rain at all.

With snow, I only have limited experience in my 330SP with OEM Conti. It was when I was doing ED in Munich in Jan. It was snowing lightly. In back road, there is usually about 2 to 3 inches of snow on the surface. Although I wasn't able to go fast, DSC went off once I want to go faster, but I never got stuck. On the day I dropped off my car to Harmm's Munich location, it was also snowing, I was able to go up the snow cover ramp without any problems, although very slow and DSC did went off. My guess would be if snow is light, RWD with all season tires will be OK. But if heavy snow, then probably should get snow tires or leave the RWD at home.

eel


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## Lolita (Sep 22, 2004)

OK, I may be an idiot, but can you clarify what DSC is? When my dealer gave me a brief overview of the car, he basically told me that the DSC button should never be used unless the car is in for servicing. He mentioned something to the effect that the DSC button will disengage the anti-lock brakes.


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## eelnoraa (Oct 13, 2003)

DSC = Dynamic Stability Control

It default to be ON when you start the car, but can be partially turned off, completely turned off by the driver (YOU).

For detail, you can probalby do a search. Other people will sure do the explaination better than me on this topic.

eel


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

(with the proper equipment, the wheels can be changed in ten minutes.)


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## Lolita (Sep 22, 2004)

I guess I need to look at my manual, but if anyone else cares to elaborate, it would be greatly appreciated. As I have written, my salesman seemed to indicate that I should never be bothered with pressing the DSC button. Thanks for all of the replies. Y'all are awesome!
~L


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## KatanaPilot (Mar 25, 2003)

Lolita said:


> I have heard many different things about how the 325i operates in inclement weather. Some people SWEAR they will never drive their RWD Bimmer in any kind of bad, wet weather.


I'm guessing those people have never driven a RWD Bimmer in snow.

I drove my 94 325i through 10 winters in and around the Boston area. Over those 10 winters, there was exactly one time where I could not reach where I needed to go. It was partially because I had installed "high-performance all-season" tires on my car, and there was not much tread left. I recall one time when a front-wheel-drive Civic had to abandon a parking spot because it had too much snow. I backed into that parking spot without a problem. IMHO, a 325i with snow tires handles snow better than any FWD vehicle with all-season tires. In fact, after one winter and scaring myself a few times, I have already purchased a set of rims for my MINI. I'll get snow tires installed in a few weeks.

What I worry about the most in snow is losing control while going forward. When that happens, it won't matter whether you are FWD or RWD. And since you will be moving forward, if you hit anything the damange could be bad. With RWD, even if you get stuck in snow, you are not going to crash into anything.

In summary, I'd say just get snow tires, and smile at FWD cars sliding all over the place on snowy days.


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

Lolita said:


> I guess I need to look at my manual, but if anyone else cares to elaborate, it would be greatly appreciated. As I have written, my salesman seemed to indicate that I should never be bothered with pressing the DSC button. Thanks for all of the replies. Y'all are awesome!
> ~L


DSC is stability control. Electronic intervention to prevent/minimize the car sliding off the road in poor traction conditions and/or when the driver does something stupid. DSC can do cool things like apply a brake on one side only. It does not, of course, repeal the laws of physics but, like antilock brakes, can make driving a lot safer for the 99 percent of us who do not have perfect car control skills.


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## Wagon Man (Oct 17, 2003)

We live in Inland Northwest and we went skiing in our 323iT or 540iT .. nuff said?  

As long as you have quality snow shoes, you have no worries. We tfrust Blizzak...

btw, it is recommended to go 1 size smaller, i.e. 17" summer, 16" in winter.

Happy & safe winter driving.


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## pony_trekker (May 26, 2003)

Lolita said:


> I have heard many different things about how the 325i operates in inclement weather. Some people SWEAR they will never drive their RWD Bimmer in any kind of bad, wet weather. Although part of me feels we should have sprung for the 325xi (there weren't many 2004 left at the end of August and did not offer the same rebates), I wanted to ask those of you who have actually driven the car to see how it performs in bad weather conditions. Some have suggested getting snow tires and weighing the car down with sand bags or something else of the sort, but I wanted to get some real opinions/experiences from drivers. I am not delusional and do not expect to drive my new baby in really bad weather (we also have a Tahoe), but just wanted to get a sense for what I may expect.


While you can screw around with a FWD car with no snows most of the time, with a RWD car you need snows if you want to go anywhere when there is snow out, and if you want to stop.

Last year, I had Pirelli snow sports on and the only time I ever had a problem was trying to get in and out of a foot of slushy snow in a parking spot. But then I only had to rock the car -- I didn't need to get out and push. Also, generally I drive in a very hilly area.

If you have a Tahoe and do not need to drive both cars, just lay it up for the winter. Otherwise snows w separate rims is the move.


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

Lolita said:


> I guess I need to look at my manual, but if anyone else cares to elaborate, it would be greatly appreciated. As I have written, my salesman seemed to indicate that I should never be bothered with pressing the DSC button. Thanks for all of the replies. Y'all are awesome!
> ~L


 1st thing DSC button will NEVER turn of ABS!

-Single press turns stability to a much higher threshold (virtually off). Traction control still on.

-Press and hold for 5 secs, Stability control full off, traction control off.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Lolita because you have a 325 you can save a bundle of money going with steel rims and snows ... if you don't mind the look of the simple black rims or hub caps.


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## freq019 (Dec 4, 2002)

For the last four years I've had nothing but RWD and I have had no trouble in the snow. First use common sense, if you don't have to go somewhere when it's snowing don't, you can't control other people, and around here (N.VA) most people don't know how to drive in snow so even if you do you still could get taken out by someone who doesn't. Secondly snows help alot I've had a set of blizzaks and a set of dunlop winter sports. both tires were excellent and I never got stuck. I wouldn't bother too much with adjusting the weight bias, because 50/50 is pretty good but its up to you you're driving the car not me. I'll admit that I was a little nervous about getting stuck, but I never did. Now that I have a xi I'll probably get stuck


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

PhilH said:


> If you have trouble driving your 325 in the rain, you're driving like an idiot. With perfect 50/50 balance, forgiving handling and a zealous stability control system you should have zero problems.


 :thumbup:


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## teamdfl (Sep 24, 2002)

My 325it is easy (and fun) to drive in the snow. With 4 snow tires and the DSC turned off, 6 inches of unplowed snow is no problem.



















Of course, a limited slip diff would be nice.

Ed


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## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

Lolita said:


> OK, I may be an idiot, but can you clarify what DSC is? When my dealer gave me a brief overview of the car, he basically told me that the DSC button should never be used unless the car is in for servicing. He mentioned something to the effect that the DSC button will disengage the anti-lock brakes.


To clarify.. The DSC is always on.. The button is used to turn it OFF.

The one thing your salesman got right: Don't turn it off...

If you DON'T have the sport package, you may be able to get by without winter tires, though I recommend them highly.. If you have the sport package, you HAVE to get winter tires..

The 3-series is an excellent car in the rain.. 50/50 weight balance is exactly what you want for wet weather stability.


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## vimal (Aug 16, 2004)

Iam also looking at a 325i ED.
May be this december.

So this snow tires, I guess when I place order for the car, I should ask them to put snow tires . Is that correct?
Will there be any difference in the cost? Does snow tire cost more, if so how much?


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## Gabe (Sep 20, 2004)

vimal said:


> Iam also looking at a 325i ED.
> May be this december.
> 
> So this snow tires, I guess when I place order for the car, I should ask them to put snow tires . Is that correct?
> Will there be any difference in the cost? Does snow tire cost more, if so how much?


Yes they cost more.

My dealership sells snow tire packages which consist of Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50's mounted on BMW replica wheels for about $1100-$1200.

You can do it cheaper if you shop around, or if you subsitute steel wheels for the replica wheels. HTH.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Quick delivery and good customer service...

http://www.tirerack.com/


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## vimal (Aug 16, 2004)

Artslinger said:


> Quick delivery and good customer service...
> 
> http://www.tirerack.com/


So what exactly is different in snow tires.
Are the treads different? Is that the only difference?


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## Lolita (Sep 22, 2004)

Love the pictures of the snow!!! Thanks for the clarification of the DSC. This is my first BMW and in essence, my first car (I am not counting the hand me downs I got as a teenager) so forgive my naivete. If anyone has the patience, why would you want to turn DSC off in the snow? Maybe I am a dumb blonde....


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

vimal said:


> So what exactly is different in snow tires.
> Are the treads different? Is that the only difference?


http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/faqs.html


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## Chris325i (Dec 31, 2001)

My 325i handles very well in snow, with a set of winter tires. The DSC/ADB is very good in slippery conditions. I grew up driving RWD cars in Chicago winters so I am comfortable with driving in snow, but the DSC is quicker than I am. Usually when the rear end starts to slide out a bit the DSC/ADB has already kicked in and corrected by the time I start to countersteer or modulate the throttle.

I love passing all the SUVs stuck off the road in the ditch...they all think they got an exemption to the laws of physics when they bought their SUV. First good snow of the year they are all tearing around yelling "Yee Haaa" and quickly end up off the road. At least they don't seem to hit other people much.


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## eelnoraa (Oct 13, 2003)

vimal said:


> Iam also looking at a 325i ED.
> May be this december.
> 
> So this snow tires, I guess when I place order for the car, I should ask them to put snow tires . Is that correct?
> Will there be any difference in the cost? Does snow tire cost more, if so how much?


Hmmm, depend on where you plan to go in your ED trip. Generally, roads in Munich are very well maintain. Even you have sport package, you will NOT have problem on city road and autobahn. I did ED in Jan, my car with SP did not encounter any problems.

If you want to go up to Alps, then maybe you will need them.

eel


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## vimal (Aug 16, 2004)

eelnoraa said:


> Hmmm, depend on where you plan to go in your ED trip. Generally, roads in Munich are very well maintain. Even you have sport package, you will NOT have problem on city road and autobahn. I did ED in Jan, my car with SP did not encounter any problems.
> 
> If you want to go up to Alps, then maybe you will need them.
> 
> eel


Iam thinking more like, Munich-Zurich-Interlaken-Milan-Modena-Munich.


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## NH-SHICKS (Nov 3, 2003)

I'm ready for Winter. 4 new Mich. Piliot Snows 225/45/17 on M wheels.


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## vimal (Aug 16, 2004)

NH-SHICKS said:


> I'm ready for Winter. 4 new Mich. Piliot Snows 225/45/17 on M wheels.


Of these tires, which is good.

Firestone
Michelin
Bridgestone


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## NH-SHICKS (Nov 3, 2003)

vimal said:


> Of these tires, which is good.
> 
> Firestone
> Michelin
> Bridgestone


I don't have much experience with snow tires. But, these are new becuase of a warranty claim I made to Mich. They paid for 90% of 4 new tires. My orig Pilot Aplin Snows where about 3 years old. I guess that says something, they stand behind their products.

These are supposed to have very good dry weather driving characteristics, which is usually the big downside to winter tires. However, I bet the snow traction is affected by this.

Steve


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## BIGRED (Jun 8, 2004)

NH-SHICKS said:


> I'm ready for Winter. 4 new Mich. Piliot Snows 225/45/17 on M wheels.


What M wheels do you have? Just curious because all your tires are the same size. I thought all M wheels were staggered.


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## Wagon Man (Oct 17, 2003)

Gabe said:


> Yes they cost more.
> 
> My dealership sells snow tire packages which consist of Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50's mounted on BMW replica wheels for about $1100-$1200.
> 
> You can do it cheaper if you shop around, or if you subsitute steel wheels for the replica wheels. HTH.


16" WS-50 is <$110 on TireRack. There are steelie at [email protected] total ~$600


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## NH-SHICKS (Nov 3, 2003)

BIGRED said:


> What M wheels do you have? Just curious because all your tires are the same size. I thought all M wheels were staggered.


True, the tires and rims were bought from a dealer. I don't know if they are OEM or not. They are all the same size. M-Contour wheels.

Steve


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## BIGRED (Jun 8, 2004)

NH-SHICKS said:


> True, the tires and rims were bought from a dealer. I don't know if they are OEM or not. They are all the same size. M-Contour wheels.
> 
> Steve


M-Contours??? Are they the ones that look like soccer balls? What car do you have and how much did you pay for them at your delaer? Lastly, have you mounted them and if so, do you have any pics?


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## NH-SHICKS (Nov 3, 2003)

BIGRED said:


> M-Contours??? Are they the ones that look like soccer balls? What car do you have and how much did you pay for them at your delaer? Lastly, have you mounted them and if so, do you have any pics?


I don't have a pic of them mounted on the car. I have a pic of them with the old tires, the pic in the post above is the new tires.

I did not buy them, they came with the car. They were $1600. The previous owner took the hit on that one.

Steve


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## BIGRED (Jun 8, 2004)

NH-SHICKS said:


> I don't have a pic of them mounted on the car. I have a pic of them with the old tires, the pic in the post above is the new tires.
> 
> I did not buy them, they came with the car. They were $1600. The previous owner took the hit on that one.
> 
> Steve


Yep, those are them... thx


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

teamdfl said:


> Of course, a limited slip diff would be nice.


///M3 - Ultimate RWD snow car


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

Lolita said:


> Love the pictures of the snow!!! Thanks for the clarification of the DSC. This is my first BMW and in essence, my first car (I am not counting the hand me downs I got as a teenager) so forgive my naivete. If anyone has the patience, why would you want to turn DSC off in the snow? Maybe I am a dumb blonde....


Answer 1: it's fun to drive sideways! 

Answer 2: If you are bogged down in snow, or in deep enough snow that you might get stuck (e.g. trying to get out of your outdoor parking space), you want to be able to keep going despite some wheelspin, which will not happen if the DSC system cuts the ignition (or whatever it does, precisely) as soon as one of the rear wheels starts spinning.

No experience with a BMW in heavy snow yet, but I imagine you might want that DSC back on once you're underway.


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## Ashe too (Dec 22, 2001)

I've had a 99 323 (sucked in snow), an 02 325 (great in snow) and an 04 330 with the zhp pkg (great in snow - even w/o snow or even all season tires). Last winter we got an 18" snow and, while the height of the snow was occassionally a bit of a challenge (the car had to do a little plowing), I was mightily impressed with the foul weather capability. 

As for DSC, it's sort of an advanced form of traction control. It will not only keep the rear wheels from spinning when you apply too much power, but it will also prevent the car from sliding sideways - especially it will prevent the rear of the car from going out to the side. While its benefits are not that significant on dry pavement under normal driving conditions, it's a big help in rain or other low traction situations where the car might easily go sideways or loose traction and spin the rear tires. 

If you press the DSC button and release it, a yellow triangle icon appears on the dash between the speedometer and tachometer to warn you that it has been disengaged. Some portion of the electronics remains active (I think the traction control portion). If you press the DSC button and hold it until the "brake" light illuminates in yellow, all electronic assist is disabled. At that point, you can spin the rear tires, go sideways, do doughnuts, and loose control of the car if you drive aggressively and don't know how to handle the car. It's especially fun when pulling away from a car wash where the pavement is slicked up with Armor All and the tires spin at the drop of a hat


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Lolita said:


> I guess I need to look at my manual, but if anyone else cares to elaborate, it would be greatly appreciated. As I have written, my salesman seemed to indicate that I should never be bothered with pressing the DSC button. Thanks for all of the replies. Y'all are awesome!
> ~L


If you don't know what the DSC button does, your saleman is right. It's probably better not to touch it...

...except when snow accumulates, then I would rather walk than drive with DSC on (from experience). It interferes in too many situations and is flat out DANGEROUS.

Read the section on DSC in the manual. BMW outlines when DSC should not be used in snowy conditions. Seems like the only time it's ok to leave it on is in shallow virgin snow (how often do you see that on roads?).


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Ashe too said:


> ...an 04 330 with the zhp pkg (great in snow - even w/o snow or even all season tires). Last winter we got an 18" snow and, while the height of the snow was occassionally a bit of a challenge (the car had to do a little plowing), I was mightily impressed with the foul weather capability.


Are you saying that the ZHP did OK in snow with performance 18" tires? You must be deft with the throttle or be running all seasons or that must be wimpy snow! Driving in snow on performace tires is a recipe for disaster! Or do you live in Kansas where everything is flat? :rofl:


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## Wagon Man (Oct 17, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Are you saying that the ZHP did OK in snow with performance 18" tires? You must be deft with the throttle or be running all seasons or that must be wimpy snow! Driving in snow on performace tires is a recipe for disaster! Or do you live in Kansas where everything is flat? :rofl:


 :rofl: "Disaster" = if and when the car is DRIVEN.

He should be safe, as I doubt if the ZHP on those 18" NO traction rubbers would even move a foot at all .. i.e. from a complete stop on snow packed / icy surface :bigpimp:


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## Ashe too (Dec 22, 2001)

kurichan said:


> Are you saying that the ZHP did OK in snow with performance 18" tires? You must be deft with the throttle or be running all seasons or that must be wimpy snow! Driving in snow on performace tires is a recipe for disaster! Or do you live in Kansas where everything is flat? :rofl:


All I have is my experience, nothing more. I'm in Charlotte, it's not flat but it's not the mountains either. We got a nice heavy snow last winter and I had to dig the car out of a drift. Probably took an hour to get it out of a parking space at my girlfriend's condo. Once on the road, it did okay. Don't get me wrong, I had to be light on the throttle, brakes and steering but I was able to get us to Shoneys for breakfast etc. When everything froze up that night, the roads were even more slippery but, again, if you don't drive like a moron, it's just not a problem. :smokin:



J Lew said:


> :rofl: "Disaster" = if and when the car is DRIVEN.
> 
> He should be safe, as I doubt if the ZHP on those 18" NO traction rubbers would even move a foot at all .. i.e. from a complete stop on snow packed / icy surface :bigpimp:


Actually, I think I probably covered 25 -50 miles in the couple of days that we had this freak storm. The Michelin Pilot Sports weren't as good as Blizzaks would have been, but I was mobile.


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## yamato (Feb 11, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Are you saying that the ZHP did OK in snow with performance 18" tires? You must be deft with the throttle or be running all seasons or that must be wimpy snow! Driving in snow on performace tires is a recipe for disaster! Or do you live in Kansas where everything is flat? :rofl:


well, it is not that bad, a friend of mine drove his 330i with performance tires for 2 winters. He had no accident until the 3rd winter. The accident happened when going up on a bridge.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

J Lew said:


> :rofl: "Disaster" = if and when the car is DRIVEN.
> 
> He should be safe, as I doubt if the ZHP on those 18" NO traction rubbers would even move a foot at all .. i.e. from a complete stop on snow packed / icy surface :bigpimp:


Just what I was thinking...


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