# DSC v. ASC



## goodfella (Jan 9, 2002)

Can anyone confirm that for a 2002 330i SP in Canada DSC was an option and car only comes with ASC. If so, what control am I missing? So far, in 1 storm the car was great. Only had a bit of a problem on a driveway/parking lot hill that was unplowed and paked down with snow and ice but still managed to make it up. Put on Nokian NRW tires. Comming to a stop I don't even feel the ABS kick in but on a start the ASC kicks in often.


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## DISCOBOY1 (Jan 8, 2002)

In 2002 DSC is an option on all 3 series model in canada, 2003 it comes standard in the coupe, not sure about sedan.

Look at the button in the center console, if it's labeled ASC then you have ASC, DSC it's DSC


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## Canuck BMW (Aug 9, 2002)

In 2003, DSC is standard on ALL BMW's in Canada.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2002)

ASC = Traction control = Good

DSC= Big brother = Bad

Unfortunately, US buyers do not have the option of getting ASC. DSC is standard.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *ASC = Traction control = Good
> 
> DSC= Big brother = Bad
> 
> Unfortunately, US buyers do not have the option of getting ASC. DSC is standard. *


Simple soultion = turn it off


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *Simple soultion = turn it off *


Then you also lose ASC functionality = BAD


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *Then you also lose ASC functionality = BAD *


I don't have traction problems, and that's part of a rwd car, even the M5 with its 369 lb/ft doesn't have traction problems...

Besides, if you can't handle the understeer in all BMWs since 1990 (save Z3), well.....


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## Mashuri (Aug 14, 2002)

You can hold the button down and turn off DSC yet leaved ASC+T on...or something like that.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *I don't have traction problems, and that's part of a rwd car, even the M5 with its 369 lb/ft doesn't have traction problems...
> 
> Besides, if you can't handle the understeer in all BMWs since 1990 (save Z3), well..... *


You've obviously never driven in snow. With ASC off and these useless open diffs, the car just spins its tire (singular!) pointlessly. :banghead:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *You've obviously never driven in snow. With ASC off and these useless open diffs, the car just spins its tire (singular!) pointlessly. :banghead: *


I've driven in snow, just not in the 328Ci

And yes, the open diff sucks. It really only bothers me in slower turns, like auto-x...


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *I've driven in snow, just not in the 328Ci
> 
> And yes, the open diff sucks. It really only bothers me in slower turns, like auto-x... *


The open diff bothered me mostly in the wet all summer, and now that the snow and ice are here it only got 10000x worse. My rear brake pads + rotors must be taking some kind of damage with the amount of times the ASC is going off.


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

That is an odd thought, to burn through rear brake pads faster than the fronts. 

Nate, how often do you get out to TWS?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *That is an odd thought, to burn through rear brake pads faster than the fronts.
> 
> Nate, how often do you get out to TWS? *


I've only been twice, once in June and then again 3 weeks ago...

Quite a ways from NO though, maybe again in the spring...


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *That is an odd thought, to burn through rear brake pads faster than the fronts.
> *


LOL, in the spring when I change the wheels I'll measure the pad thickness.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *The open diff bothered me mostly in the wet all summer, and now that the snow and ice are here it only got 10000x worse. My rear brake pads + rotors must be taking some kind of damage with the amount of times the ASC is going off.  *


haha, that would be hillarious to burn out the rears faster...

Some folks with ADB might acutally do that if they are agressive with the throttle and easy on the brakes 

You just have to take it easy, buddy...

Anyway, I would take DSC over ASC any day...


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## DISCOBOY1 (Jan 8, 2002)

Mashuri said:


> *You can hold the button down and turn off DSC yet leaved ASC+T on...or something like that. *


True, If you press on DSC button, DSC is disactivated but ASC is still on, to cancel both you have to old the button at least 3 seconds, If you see a yellow light come on your cluster, everything is disabled.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *haha, that would be hillarious to burn out the rears faster...
> 
> Some folks with ADB might acutally do that if they are agressive with the throttle and easy on the brakes
> 
> ...


Nah, I'm really not that aggressive at all, the ASC is just a nice feature to have when I require a quick getaway.

I still have yet to drive a DSC-equipped car hard enough to set it off, so I can't comment.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

DISCOBOY1 said:


>


I love your front air dam, and the way the fog assembly is painted. Since it's an '01, I'm guessing you did it aftermarket?


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *I've only been twice, once in June and then again 3 weeks ago...
> 
> Quite a ways from NO though, maybe again in the spring... *


Were those weekends w. the PCA DEs? I'm there every PCA event, I'll have to keep an eye out for you next time. I'm in a dark blue 911, #442. With any luck my wife will be coming out for her first DE (voluntarily, even) in her '03 330i, OB.


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## pmb1010 (Aug 26, 2002)

DISCOBOY1 said:


> *True, If you press on DSC button, DSC is disactivated but ASC is still on, to cancel both you have to old the button at least 3 seconds, If you see a yellow light come on your cluster, everything is disabled. *


I press the DSC button once quickly. The yellow light comes on.
I turn off the DSC (with a quick press) and then attempt to turn both features off, I press and hold the DSC button for a few seconds. Yellow light is on, looks exactly like the "quick press". How do I know ASC is disengaged???

Vic


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *Were those weekends w. the PCA DEs? I'm there every PCA event, I'll have to keep an eye out for you next time. I'm in a dark blue 911, #442. With any luck my wife will be coming out for her first DE (voluntarily, even) in her '03 330i, OB. *


Nah, I was with the Houston BMWCCA the week before. They had a nice DE and National Championship Race. There were Porsches racing in some of the sprint races. Took some pics here

I'll probably get to a PCA event at TWS sometime next year, but I go to the PCA events here as well.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *Nah, I'm really not that aggressive at all, the ASC is just a nice feature to have when I require a quick getaway.
> 
> I still have yet to drive a DSC-equipped car hard enough to set it off, so I can't comment. *


hmm...what kind of tires do you have now? My car has a very difficult time breaking the rear loose (except wet), I'd have to do a very high clutch drop to get do that; after my rear floor exprience, I'm not eager.

Anyway, DSC does a good job. It really isn't very intrusive unless you do a real bonehead move. These cars understeer a lot anyway, I really can't get rear rotation. Maybe with a bit more front neg camber it could happen, I do wear the rear shoulders with 2+ deg. I'm sure rhenriksen knows that some rotation is needed in the carousel and esses at TWS...


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *Nah, I was with the Houston BMWCCA the week before. They had a nice DE and National Championship Race. There were Porsches racing in some of the sprint races. Took some pics here
> 
> I'll probably get to a PCA event at TWS sometime next year, but I go to the PCA events here as well. *


I was on the fence on making that weekend to help out w. the DE... wound up painting my garage instead  . Had to make it nice & pretty for my wife's new car. Two coats of semi-gloss white latex, even the ceiling - it's like a surgical theater now!

How is NoProblem Raceway? I was supposed to go to the first event last July, wound up under the weather & didn't make it.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *I was on the fence on making that weekend to help out w. the DE... wound up painting my garage instead  . Had to make it nice & pretty for my wife's new car. Two coats of semi-gloss white latex, even the ceiling - it's like a surgical theater now!
> 
> How is NoProblem Raceway? I was supposed to go to the first event last July, wound up under the weather & didn't make it. *


No Problem is ok, I like TWS a lot more.

It is very short, technical, and EXTREMELY hard on the brakes. Almost no cooling room


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

DISCOBOY1 said:


> *True, If you press on DSC button, DSC is disactivated but ASC is still on, to cancel both you have to old the button at least 3 seconds, If you see a yellow light come on your cluster, everything is disabled. *


*sigh* NO ONE seems to understand this.

DSC cars do NOT NOT NOT have ASC. When you push the the button the first time, traction control is disabled on all wheels. When you push the second button, ADB is disabled. ADB is NOT a form of traction control. All it does is prevent the car from uselessly spinning one wheel. If it senses that one wheel is beginning to spin much faster than the other, it will brake it. It does NOT modulate the throttle (unless you're about to cook the brakes), and it will not do ANYTHING to prevent you from stuffing the car into a guardrail. If you spin BOTH wheels, ADB is perfectly happy. Stab the throttle in wet/ice/snow/mud, your tail will go right around with ADB on. In fact, it might even do it faster, since ADB is shifting power to the wheel WITH traction.

BE CAREFUL.


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## pmb1010 (Aug 26, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> **sigh* NO ONE seems to understand this.
> 
> DSC cars do NOT NOT NOT have ASC. When you push the the button the first time, traction control is disabled on all wheels. When you push the second button, ADB is disabled. ADB is NOT a form of traction control. All it does is prevent the car from uselessly spinning one wheel. If it senses that one wheel is beginning to spin much faster than the other, it will brake it. It does NOT modulate the throttle (unless you're about to cook the brakes), and it will not do ANYTHING to prevent you from stuffing the car into a guardrail. If you spin BOTH wheels, ADB is perfectly happy. Stab the throttle in wet/ice/snow/mud, your tail will go right around with ADB on. In fact, it might even do it faster, since ADB is shifting power to the wheel WITH traction.
> 
> BE CAREFUL. *


What "second button"?...


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

nate328Ci said:


> *hmm...what kind of tires do you have now? My car has a very difficult time breaking the rear loose (except wet), I'd have to do a very high clutch drop to get do that; after my rear floor exprience, I'm not eager.
> *


I'm still on the factory Conti's, at 51k km's. :yikes: I only put on the last 18k, the previous owner must drive like a Volvo owner.

I'm refering to winter driving re: the ASC takeoff issue, in the dry I rarely see the dummy light going off.


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## Mystikal (Dec 20, 2001)

pmb1010 said:


> *What "second button"?... *


I think he means "when you hold the button down for 3 seconds"


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## rhenriksen (Jul 22, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *No Problem is ok, I like TWS a lot more.
> 
> It is very short, technical, and EXTREMELY hard on the brakes. Almost no cooling room *


Thanks -- sounds like I should put MSR on my list first, I'm embarrassed to say that in three years of going to TWS, I've yet to make it up to MSR. It's supposed to be a whole lot of fun. Let me know when you make it back to TWS -- what run group have you been going out in?


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

rhenriksen said:


> *Thanks -- sounds like I should put MSR on my list first, I'm embarrassed to say that in three years of going to TWS, I've yet to make it up to MSR. It's supposed to be a whole lot of fun. Let me know when you make it back to TWS -- what run group have you been going out in? *


Well, at the last event there were only two groups, blue and green. I was in blue.

Otherwise, if using standard Red/Yellow/Blue/Green, most likely Yellow. I don't think they would put me in red.

And, I have heard that MSR is very nice. I want to go sometime. BMWCCA had one there in July and The Driver's Edge is there all the time...


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

*ASC vs DSC*

My US 03 330Ci came w/ DSC. In the "Technology" brochure that came with the car it says

ASC+T includes
+ Antilock Brake System (ABS)
+ Cornering Brake Control (CBC)
+ EBV electronic brake-force distribution
+ ADB automatic differential brake (this seems to be the simulated LSD)
+ MSR engine drag torque control

DSC includes
+ ASC+T automatic stability control plus traction
+ DTC dynamic traction control
+ DBC dynamic brake control

The car boots up with DSC enabled. If you hit the DSC button the [trangle+!+circular-arrow] indicator comes on and DTC is enabled. If you hold the DSC button down for three seconds DSC and DTC are disabled and the [BRAKE] indicator is illuminated.

My reading of the manuals indicates that in DSC mode the car is "safe": if you hit the brakes hard it assumes a panic stop and maximizes braking, if you turn hard it will work to control understeer/oversteer.

In DTC mode the car is "sporty": ADB is active and only massive understeer/oversteer will kick in the ASC+T. The manuals are not crystal clear on exactly which control systems are used in which mode with DSC and DTC.

Matt


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## fkafka (Mar 12, 2002)

I looked all through my car file and couldn't find a "technology brochure". When you get a chance, could you post the exact name of this document here so I can get a copy for myself? Thanks in advance.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Mystikal said:


> *I think he means "when you hold the button down for 3 seconds" *


:banghead:

Typed that one out too quickly.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: ASC vs DSC*



mwette said:


> *My reading of the manuals indicates that in DSC mode the car is "safe": if you hit the brakes hard it assumes a panic stop and maximizes braking, if you turn hard it will work to control understeer/oversteer.*


The panic stop sensing is part of DBC (dynamic brake control), and should be independent of DSC. I don't think DBC or CBC (Corner Brake Control) can be disabled.


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

fkafka said:


> *I looked all through my car file and couldn't find a "technology brochure". When you get a chance, could you post the exact name of this document here so I can get a copy for myself? Thanks in advance. *


The brochure is 35 pages. The only writing on the cover is "Technology" next to the roundel. The picture on the cover has engine internals (crankshaft, pistons, valves, etc). Inside it has (c) 2002 Bayerische Motoren Werke, Order No 01 41 0 156 390.


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Re: ASC vs DSC*



alee said:


> *The panic stop sensing is part of DBC (dynamic brake control), and should be independent of DSC. I don't think DBC or CBC (Corner Brake Control) can be disabled. *


I can't tell exactly. Here is the writing from the Owner's manual: 
"Press the DSC button down for at least 3 seconds; the indicator lamp and the yellow brake warning lamp will remain on continuously. The systems for enhancing stability and traction are deactivated, and there is no active braking intervention or torque control."


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## fkafka (Mar 12, 2002)

mwette said:


> *The brochure is 35 pages. The only writing on the cover is "Technology" next to the roundel. The picture on the cover has engine internals (crankshaft, pistons, valves, etc). Inside it has (c) 2002 Bayerische Motoren Werke, Order No 01 41 0 156 390. *


Thanks!


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