# Suggestions for a total newbie?



## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

Hi everyone,

I hope I don't annoy people with a newbie detailing post.  I've been browsing this forum for a while trying to learn how to keep my soon-to-arrive car (silver gray ZHP) clean and reasonably well proected. Having done so, I've become utterly lost and confused, reading about all kinds of products with confusing names and codes (zainos, zymol, p21s, griots, 3m, etc.), in addition to various methods for washing, drying, waxing, polishing, detailing, etc.

I would like to keep the car clean and provide a reasonable amount of protection for the paint, but I just don't have the ability to spend a lot of time doing so. In that regard, do you have any suggestions for a total newbie who would like to keep the car clean and reasonably well preserved with the least amount of time and effort? Is this an impossible task? :dunno:

I've been thinking of ordering something called Optimum Car Wax (available at www.optimumcarcare.com) since one of the columnists in last month's Roundel claimed it was the easiest and best wax he's ever used. Has anyone heard of this product before?

Sorry for the rambling post. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

I'm no expert and had pretty much the same dilema as you do now...
but IMHO:

It'll depend really on what you determine that you'll be happy with.
Previously with my older cars, i thought i was taking very good car of them with regular wash and waxing... They were shiny and clean and i never noticed the micro marring (swirlies).

With the new car, the first "new" car i've owned, i decided i wanted to do more for a number of reasons:
it's black... and i see every blemish
it was expensive... moving up in class costs!
it's my baby! ...kay.. i'm loving the thing...
But i'm still not as gun-ho as many of the people on this site... namely because of the time involved...
I've decided i will not stand for any marring, so i purchased some swirl remover
I've decided i wanted protection so i purchased some sealant... and plan on some carnuba later (but testing the sealant properties first)
I've created a simple "bird shit kit" cuz i don't want any blemish on the paint...

In the beginning, i'd say spend the time and apply a good protective cover on the car, be it wax or sealant... at the very least...
(The sealant i'm using is supposed to be rated for 9 months... so with excessive washing, i figure reapplying every 6 months if i go for the single coat. 5 to 7 hours twice a year ain't that bad. I'll be doing it more like every 2 or 3 months until i get a few coats down as a base, but then the guys on this site are a bad influence for that kind of behaviour  )
If you strive for perfection, then look into the claying and surface prepping techniques some of the people have mentioned...

Personally, i've found a middle ground right now and am very happy with the look of the car... i think in time, i'll probably start doing more... but right now, i don't think i can make my car look any better than it already does...!

As i said in the beginning, it'll depend on what you're willing to settle for...
Congrats on the new car btw!!
:thumbup:


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

tommyd said:


> In the beginning, i'd say spend the time and apply a good protective cover on the car, be it wax or sealant... at the very least...
> (The sealant i'm using is supposed to be rated for 9 months... so with excessive washing, i figure reapplying every 6 months if i go for the single coat. 5 to 7 hours twice a year ain't that bad. I'll be doing it more like every 2 or 3 months until i get a few coats down as a base, but then the guys on this site are a bad influence for that kind of behaviour  )


thanks tommyd. i can see why you'd want to put in the extra effort to take care of your car. what type of sealant did you end up going with for your car? and this is a probably a dumb question, but what's the difference between a sealant and a wax? :dunno:


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

dusterbuster said:


> thanks tommyd. i can see why you'd want to put in the extra effort to take care of your car. what type of sealant did you end up going with for your car? and this is a probably a dumb question, but what's the difference between a sealant and a wax? :dunno:


The best thing to do would be to do a search on the site... lot's of information to be gathered here...

Zaino is a favorite, also Griots, but because of local availability, i went with a product line called Prowax. I found that their sealant had some swirl removing qualities and was very quick to haze. As a time saver, i think these are both great features!!
(You can avoid the "swirl removing" step and go right to application, which is quick also).
I still plan to do full details as time permits... and applications of the Pro Sealant in between when time is more limited (or i get lazy)...

There are a number of product lines that are good for certain things... so do a search and make a list of the ones that you think you'll want.

Sealant and Wax? I have my ideas but i'm keeping them to myself until someone confirms my suspicions. The biggest difference i guess would be that one's synthetic and the other is organically based.
I dunno which one's better... personal preference i think.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I sugest for people new to detailing to check out the tips and forums at Autopia before buying...

http://www.autopia-carcare.com

and download and read Groits handbook...

http://www.griotsgarage.com/support.jsp


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

It all depends on how much you want to do and spend. 

A LOT of people do fine with basic products bought from WalMart. It will keep your car protected and shiny without a lot of work.

It is for the more an*l group that get into the merits of each system and spend hours each week doing this stuff.

For our M Roadster we use basic Mequiar's products. Right now I just their Gold Class paste wax on it a couple of times a year. We just did the clay bar, cleaner, polish, wax routine on it, and will just wax it every so often.

I did go Zaino on the M3. But until I had the garage available, I used the same Mequair's Gold Class on it for almost a year.

Yes, the higher end products do give a deeper gloss, more shine, many last longer. But they tend to be more expensive and many require a lot more work.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Not sure if I would call it an*l... I actually enjoy detailing my car a few times a year. And the car looks so good after a full detailing.


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

thanks for all the input guys! i've never really used the "good stuff" on my cars. just stuff i could buy from the local walmart or target. i've been using meguiar's cleaner wax (or something like that) which i got from walmart on the wife's miata. it seems to work okay, although i can really see the swirlies on the dark blue paint.

i'm still curious about the optimum car wax from www.optimumcarcare.com. kind of pricey, but more than worth it if it works half as well as advertised. still, the idea of a spray-on wax doing anything seems a little strange to me. :dunno:


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

i decided to go ahead and order the Optimum Car Wax from www.optimumcarcare.com (along with their leather/vinyl cleaner and some microfiber towels). i should receive the package next week, just in time for my car's arrival. excellent customer service btw. apparently, the company has been working with bmwna in trying to sell their products through dealerships.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Go for it. You will lie the results, although you may eventually get tired of the work. 

BTW you can do serious swirls even with the best stuff if you aren't careful. They come from washing improperly or the wrong towels used for waxing.


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> BTW you can do serious swirls even with the best stuff if you aren't careful. They come from washing improperly or the wrong towels used for waxing.


hmm, in the past, i've used a wash mitt and terry cloth towels. i take it the terry cloth towels are a bad idea. what about the wash mitt though?


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Witha wash mitt you need to make SURE that it isn't picking up grit and holding it. Many people use two buckets, one with soapy water, one with planin water, and they do a dip and sqeeze each time before reloading with soapy water.

WRT towles you need to make SURE that they are truely 100% cotton, including the thread used to bind the edges. Many cheap towels aren't really 100% cotton. The site you bought from tells you how to test the towels by burning a small piece.

For waxing, most people here have gone to micro fiber for removing the haze.


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## dusterbuster (Jan 29, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> Witha wash mitt you need to make SURE that it isn't picking up grit and holding it. Many people use two buckets, one with soapy water, one with planin water, and they do a dip and sqeeze each time before reloading with soapy water.
> 
> WRT towles you need to make SURE that they are truely 100% cotton, including the thread used to bind the edges. Many cheap towels aren't really 100% cotton. The site you bought from tells you how to test the towels by burning a small piece.
> 
> For waxing, most people here have gone to micro fiber for removing the haze.


thanks pinecone for the helpful tips. i'm guessing my ultra-cheapo 24-pack terry cloth towels from walmart are not ideal for drying or waxing, as they feel fairly rough (reminds me of junior high gym class towels, only smaller). hmm, i didn't think about using a 2 bucket method before with the wash mitts, but that makes a lot of sense. is there something better than a wash mitt for washing?

i may pick up some microfiber towles for drying, if they're suppposed to be better than terry cloth. i'll have to see if i can find some microfiber towels at costco. i saw some there a while ago, but they felt kind of strange. they were very soft but also had a sort of sharp feeling to them when brushing your hand against them, as if they were catching rough spots on my skin, if that makes any sense. maybe i'm just not familiar with how microfiber towels are supposed to feel. up till now, the only microfiber fabric i've ever used are those little ones that are designed for cleaning eyeglasses. :dunno:


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## DannyBoy98 (Sep 27, 2005)

I am also fairly new to the scene, but let me tell you...I just recently applied my first coat of Klasse AIO and two coats of P21S to my Steel Gray 325 Xi and it looks amazing. I was a little hesitant about spending _that_ much money on wax, but it is worth it. Everything about it they say is true. It doesn't leave any stains on plastic or rubber and it wipes off so easily with absolutely no white powdery residue. I also put a coat on my wheels and after 2 weeks they still look bright. A microfiber applicator pad and towel is all you need for the perfect shine. :thumbup:


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

My 2 cents since I used Optimum wax.

Washing and drying techniques are the keys to keep your car looking good. Invest in a good wash mitt (I like the sheepskin ones), dedicated big microfiber towel for drying and go to Costco to get 2 packs of these yellow microfiber towels they sell for like $8.

You'll need a product to clean and polish your paint to remove oxidation, swirls and other minor paint defects. This is done twice a year, usually Spring and Fall. Since you're new to detailing I recommend Klasse All-in-One, one step product that can be used by hand. This will provide great base for Optimum wax. 

I've detailed my car in early spring when it received 3 coats of Zaino. It still beaded water like crazy recently but I decided to revive my paint with Optimum before I get another chance for a full detail. I'm really impressed how easy it is to use it, almost as easy as quick detailing spray. I simply sprayed it on a panel and used one microfiber towel to wipe it and second one to buff it to a shine. It doesn't take more than 15 min to do entire car, maybe less. Don't expect the shine of Zaino but it looked like a good carnauba. Paint was deeper and darker and very slick to a touch. I can't comment on durability and doubt I'll ever find out since it's so easy to use. I think I'm gonna stick to Zaino as a base (Klasse will work great as well) and then use Optimum on top whenever I feel like it.


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## yellowrose (Oct 21, 2005)

*Best Paint Protection*

I am totally new to this world...and do not have the skills to do all this polishing, sealing and waxing myself. And I'd worry too much about making a mess of it. So, I am considering getting the "Touch of Wax" treatment offered by the dealer. Does anyone have any experience with this? My dealer is charging $699 and saying it lasts 5 years...with just washing needed in between. If not this...are there other protective treatments out there I could get at an auto detailer? If yes, what should I look for? What should I avoid? THANK YOU SO MUCH! (P.S. A friend of mine got the "Perma Plate" treatment from her Toyota dealer, and 3 years later, her paint job still looks great. With just occasional washes. So it seems like this kind of thing might work.) What do you'all think?


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## BMRAMA (Oct 6, 2005)

Hey Yellowrose,

I wouldn't go for the "Touch of Wax." $700 is a lot to spend on a single treatment, and no one coat is going to keep your car looking fantastic for 5 years.

Instead of spending that $700 on their treatment, try reading some detailing guides and posts here at bimmerfest. Then, order some Zaino products and give it a go. What's great about their stuff is that you can't 'really' mess things up. You can wash them off with Dawn if worst comes to worst, but I don't think you'll need to resort to that.

I like taking car of my cars. I enjoy getting in and noticing how clean and nice things look. I spend 1-2 hours a week, but my 5 year old Honda looks maybe just 1-2 years old. 

If you do not want to make the effort, I suggest you go look for a really nice detailing shop in your area and see what they offer in the $200'ish range. Do your best to speak with a manager, and let them know you want a place to come back to over and over.


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

Take Artslinger's advice and do some reading first before you decide on whay products /methods to use.Or if you prefer go to a reputable professional detailer for the initial detail and then learn the proper car care maintenace processes.

*New vehicle, Initial Care:*
Most people believe that a new car needs little if any care for the first week or so, not true. Most new vehicles leave the factory, they sit in dirt parking lots, they are transported by trains, trucks, or ships, and then they are generally subjected to the removal of transit plastic protection wrap and usually harsh washing conditions once they arrive at the car dealership.

Even new cars that have been setting on a car dealerships lot for a few weeks can accumulate surface contamination; don't assume a vehicle that looks good is contamination free

Acid rain, road salt, tree sap and airborne contaminants are very detrimental to a vehicles paint film surface. Brake dust or rail dust are very small, almost microscopic particles of steel, iron or their alloys. These particles carry a negative charge while the vehicles they land on are carrying a positive charge. The vehicle surface becomes a magnet, attracting and bonding the ferrous metal particles to the vehicle surface.

1. RapGard (Plastic Transit Film):
Many manufacturers are using this white plastic covering in place of synthetic or wax based shipping coatings (Cosmoline) The plastic becomes brittle with age (90 to 180 days) and becomes difficult to remove as it "shreds" while being pulled off, additionally there is excess adhesive residue left on the surface.
•Spray or wipe Isopropyl Alcohol on to the Rap Guard or Plastic Film and the painted surfaces. 
•Allow it to remain on the surface for 3 to 5 minutes. Saturate a soft clean towel with Isopropyl Alcohol and gently wipe away the RapGard / Plastic Transit Film pieces and their adhesive.
•Wash vehicle with a car wash concentrate diluted 1 oz. per gallon of water any remove any residue with detailers clay.

2. Cleaning Tyres:
•Rinse thoroughly with a fairly strong stream of clean water to remove any loose road dirt etc., from tyre's and wheel wells. 
•Clean tyres with a rubber cleaner (3M Tire & Wheel Cleaner -39036) or a citrus-based APC (P21S Total Auto Wash)
•Use a water-based polymer tyre dressing (Zaino Z-16 Perfect Tire Gloss™) 
•Apply a (UVR) protection to the tyres.

3. Detailers Clay:
•Divide the Detailer's Clay into equal pieces and knead into a ball to ensure pliability
•Take one of the pieces and flatten it out into a circle, approximately enough that it will fit into two or three fingers
•Spray a 2-foot by 2-foot surface with a lubricating solution (WooliteTM or Dreft™ / Water 5:1), ensure that the surface being clayed is always wet
•Glide the Clay across the area in a front to back in a straight-line aquaplaning type motion 
•Use long strokes without lifting the clay from the surface
•Use a light to medium even pressure until the surface becomes smooth and silent.
•If the Clay is streaking on the paint, you need more to apply more lubricating solution, it is better to over lubricate the paint film surface than let it dry-out
4. Vinyl and hard plastic surfaces:
•Apply any dressings very sparingly as these surfaces don't allow the dressings to penetrate very well
•Use a suitable matte type dressing (Iz Cockpit Premium) to ensure that there is no reflection on the windshield, reducing visibility. 
•Apply a UVR protection (303 Space Protectant) especially to the dash and any other surface that is subjected to sunlight on a regular basis.

5. Surface Protection:
Regularly applied wax and/or a polymer sealant will both protect the paint surface from surface contamination that collects on a painted finish which includes, Industrial fallout (IFO), Rail Dust, Acid Rain, Hard Water Spots, Tar, Bird Droppings, Waxes/Silicones, Oxidation, Adhesive Residue, Road Grime Rust Stains.

6. Car Cover:
The greatest treats to the preservation of your vehicle are; Airborne Contaminants, Industrial Fallout (this includes Acid Rain) Ultra Violet Radiation (UVR) Oxidation, Bird Excrement and Brake Dust, wind blown debris and pollution.

Protect your investment with a car cover, outdoors, car covers offer unequalled protection against ultra-violet radiation (UVR) they are water resistant and provide protection from acid rain, pollution, bird excrement, tree sap and wind blown debris.
{each one / teach one][then student /becomes teacher} 
[JonM


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## yellowrose (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks BMRAMA, I have been emboldened by you and the other bimmerfesters. I plan to order Z-7 Wash and Z-6 Spray Polish to keep the car clean and shiny. (My neighborhood has lots of pollen, so the hood and roof of my '05 black wagon are getting a bit dusty.) Do I need to worry about whether the car has oil or clear coat paint before using either of those products? This will be the first wash since I got it from the dealer. I am a bit confused by the Mitt-lovers vs. the 100% cotton towel-lovers...but I guess I'll just test little areas and see which works best. And then I'll look for a good, Zaino-using detailer for the annual or biannual pro wax jobs. I'm worried most about oxidation over the long-term since my driveway (no garage unfortunately) has no protection from the south or west. Thanks again!


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## BMRAMA (Oct 6, 2005)

yellowrose said:


> Thanks BMRAMA, I have been emboldened by you and the other bimmerfesters. I plan to order Z-7 Wash and Z-6 Spray Polish to keep the car clean and shiny. (My neighborhood has lots of pollen, so the hood and roof of my '05 black wagon are getting a bit dusty.) Do I need to worry about whether the car has oil or clear coat paint before using either of those products? This will be the first wash since I got it from the dealer. I am a bit confused by the Mitt-lovers vs. the 100% cotton towel-lovers...but I guess I'll just test little areas and see which works best. And then I'll look for a good, Zaino-using detailer for the annual or biannual pro wax jobs. I'm worried most about oxidation over the long-term since my driveway (no garage unfortunately) has no protection from the south or west. Thanks again!


Z-7 is a great all around car wash. They do have specific washes for clearcoat (Z-2) and regular paint(Z-3), but Z-7 will work fine for anything.

With the Z-6, I suggest doing the whole car, then doing it once more. I know, lots of work, but it offers a layer of protection that's twice as thick (I'm good with math :-D ). It really will help if you want to have less time between car washes.

And Congrats on beginning your journey towards being an obsessive car person.
Paul


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## yellowrose (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks Paul! The remaining decision before I "touch" my car: Do you use 100% cotton or microfiber...or something else...for washing and drying and applying Z-6?


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## BMRAMA (Oct 6, 2005)

YR,

You could use either. Cotton is fine, microfiber is fine. Since you purchased the towels soley for washing the cars (Right?!?!), be sure to wash them a couple times before use. The fuzz that new towels have is only funny in hindsight when it comes to car care. 

I find using a mitt for washing is really easy for me, so I use that, but for applying an after wash coat go with cotton.

Costco sells for $8 a bag of 20 micro fiber rags. I love these things for the interior, because EVERYTHING sticks to them. They're also great for polishing, but Zaino does recommend cotton.

Now, YR, be sure to post pictures or at least PM me with the results.

ooh, and I have a question, why did they name their product 'backpack' in italian? 
Paul


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

:tsk: A lot of misinformation here...

First of all the only car wash that Zaino sells is Z-7 and it works just like every other car wash on both single stage and clearcoated paints. They DO NOT have specific washes for different paint types. Z-2 is their wax/sealant for clearcoated finishes and Z-3 is for regular paint. They are called Show Car Polish but the name "polish" is a bit confusing since they don't have any polishing or cleaning properties, they are completely non abrasive and work like car wax. Z-PC Fusion Dual Action Paint Cleanser Swirl Remover is the only Zaino product that works like a true polish in that removes swirls, small scratches and oxidation and restores gloss. Z-6 Ultra Clean Gloss Enhancer Spray is not a polish either and it offers very little paint protection on its own. It's a quick detailer designed not only to remove dust, fingerprints, etc but also to boost their Show Polishes like Z-2. It helps restore gloss and slickness of a finish that is already protected by Z-2.

Zaino recommends only 100% cotton made in USA towels because they are sure of the towel's quality. There are so many microfiber towels on the market that are of different quality that it is impossible for Zaino to recommend them without naming the specific brands and they obviously don't wanna do that.

You'll find hundreds of recommendations on how to use Zaino products but I suggest that you read a thread by Nick T. It's the most comprehensive guide to Zaino system so far.


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