# Rough Month:(



## firstbimmer (May 25, 2006)

Was going good with my 2011 335d and then I got close to 90k miles and the car decided to raid my bank account. 

First...reduced power light decides to visit off and on. Bad MAF sensor. Replace that and replace front bushings and two front tires and alignment and air filter while its in the shop... 

Second...day after getting car back engine light comes on. Bad NOX sensors. Fixing that and adding new software to car...

Third...while in they recommend full carbon cleaning.

All out of warranty but dealer has been awesome and has worked with bmw to help goodwill some of the costs and put me in a bmw loaner for many weeks. Can't say enough good things about Sonnen BMW. After all is said and done, close to $6k cost after goodwill. Really contemplated selling before committing to fix everything, but after looking at various options nothing tugged at me or jumped out. In the end I decided that I really enjoy my 335d as much as any car I looked at. The car still looks brand new and is perfect for fun and highway cruising. Crossing my fingers I can get another 90k miles out of her and another 5 years!


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Not unusual for any BMW bought used with 90,000 miles on it, perhaps. A little disappointing that the software fix wasn't there before the repairs mentioned needed to be done. Happy motoring!

I would expect that a private mechanic wouldn't have BMW's bloated service prices, so the cost might even have been less there....

PL


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I feel the same way as the OP about my 2010 at 100k+ miles.

So far nothing major has bitten me but you just know (and dread) that it is waiting there for you. I am about to go for it's first ATF change, bought the kit and will have a Tranny shop do the work, cause BMW refused to perform this work even though it is recommended in their manual.:dunno:

Residual on this car is probably in the 12's now, so not worth much, it's paid for, so like others suggest you need to at least mentally if not physically sock away a couple hundred bucks a month for a rainy day.

As for Indy's, if it is a basic BMW 3 series issue, no problem, but if it is the engine or emissions, good luck with that. The dealers struggle with this so how can you expect an Indy to know much about these engines and the emissions?:dunno: I have a pretty good one but even he is a bit clueless about the diesel engines in these cars.

I'll keep enjoying the car until it reaches that point of unreliability and the required repairs are just out of the range of sensible.

Unfortunately there aren't a lot of comparable options out there if you are a true compression head.:tsk:


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Ouch, that is a hefty bill, and all in all, 6 grand is less than depreciation for signing papers on a new 3 series. Hope it keeps treating you well.
Not sure if you ever get to Berkeley, but as an alternative to Sonnen one of the main guys at Bavarian Professional has an E70 diesel. Not cheapest independent, but very knowledgeable, top notch work, and they have loaners. They could be an option for you if you drive through there.


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## firstbimmer (May 25, 2006)

Not bought used? Picked up in europe june 2011. Mostly happy carefree ownership. Repairs have been more of a recent trend. Bmw goodwilled almost half of the costs...so yeah it was expensive, but was way cheaper than full price...even at an indy. I have been servicing my cars at sonnen since 2007. Have nothing but positive things to say about them. The service department didn't design the 335d, but they definitely have tried to make it right!


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## firstbimmer (May 25, 2006)

Gotta remember part of the cost was 2 runflat tires, new bushings that needed replacement, and reworked alignment. (I had them take out some negative camber) Those were outside the problem issues and not part of goodwill items. I just happen to have those items done at same time so overall bill included that as well. The MAF and NOX sensors and full carbon cleaning are the trouble items from two different codes that triggered within weeks of each other. Just an overall expensive month.

I know I pay more for dealer service but I have never been disappointed. They work with my schedule, always put me in a nice loaner(and don't rush me to return it when car is finished), always take the time to go over my questions and concerns, and always fix an issue if they mess up. Nobody's perfect, no car is perfect, at this point I pay a little more for the relationship and trust my service advisor has earned over many years. (Sales department is not the same boat...haha)


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Dealers are not always more expensive. I tried using an independent and their prices ended up being just as much if not more than the dealer. Some of their work was not done right the first time. Plus they do not have the amenities such as a nice customer waiting area and loaner cars. 

Any performance car approaching the 100K mile mark is going to need some work. I am in the process of doing a refresh myself. This includes Bilstein B6 shocks all the way around, new driveguard runflat tires, alignment , battery which was just about done, and soon changing the transmission fluid.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Flyingman said:


> I feel the same way as the OP about my 2010 at 100k+ miles.
> 
> So far nothing major has bitten me but you just know (and dread) that it is waiting there for you. I am about to go for it's first ATF change, bought the kit and will have a Tranny shop do the work, cause BMW refused to perform this work even though it is recommended in their manual.:dunno:
> 
> ...


All "premium" German brands and even Jaguar and Volvo require expense in maintenance and repairs later in their mechanical lives. This is not new. Expect $1000 - $2000 bills once in a while. Still way less than taking a depreciation hit on a new $50,000 car.

The disappointment seems to be mostly from dealers who don't care enough to make their repair bills at least sound reasonable, and often just throw parts at the car without a proper diagnosis (see: fuel injector replacements). This does not usually happen with private mechanics who specialize in the particular brand.

Consider Lexus if your mind is so troubled. Others: enjoy the ride.

PL


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

Pierre Louis said:


> All "premium" German brands and even Jaguar and Volvo require expense in maintenance and repairs later in their mechanical lives. This is not new. Expect $1000 - $2000 bills once in a while. Still way less than taking a depreciation hit on a new $50,000 car.
> 
> The disappointment seems to be mostly from dealers who don't care enough to make their repair bills at least sound reasonable, and often just throw parts at the car without a proper diagnosis (see: *fuel injector replacements*). This does not usually happen with private mechanics who specialize in the particular brand.
> 
> ...


I had a lot of injectors replacements, 17 in total. These replacement were ordered by BMW NA, not the dealer. My car was one of the first MY 2010 built (ordered the car in August 2009).

Usually, the dealer replaced injector #2 or #4 under the instruction of the BMW diagnostic tool. That did not solve the SES light problem long term. Next, BMW instruct the dealer to replace all 6 injectors. I am good for about 6 months and the same story repeat again.

I am not blaming the dealer, the problem is all BMW. I had countless number of ECU software upgrade and one CBU cleanup. There was even one visit from a BMW engineer to the dealer to figure what is wrong with my car. I think that I am a Beta tester for the emission system of the 335d. Many of these issues happened before there was a procedure and tools to do a CBU cleanup on the 335d.

Now, after the CBU cleanup, it is more stable. My latest issue is an EGR cooler failure. There is a vacuum operated exhaust valve at the bottom of the EGR cooler and the return spring broke. The spring cannot be replaced, have to replace the whole EGR cooler. I replaced myself the EGR cooler this weekend, $600 part cost online.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

montr said:


> I think that I am a Beta tester for the emission system of the 335d.


Not just you, we all are!


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Somehow I knew this would happen. During the 1970's and early 1980's, EPA mandated pollution controls as well as fuel economy regulations brought us cars from GM that were not fixable, in gasoline and diesel cars. My 1974 Audi 100LS was always fixable, but wouldn't run every 5,000 miles or so. Everything broke on it except for the VDO clock (not kidding).

Engineering has always been a compromise led by cost vs. performance. An expensive diesel 18 wheeler can have the same tech, but it might be built to a more reliable (read: expensive) standard than mass market cars. This is the trick that VW couldn't solve without cheating. BMW and Mercedes are both in the diesel game too but Mercedes has higher standards. I went into owning the 335d with eyes wide open and realized buying the last production cycle of the NA 335d would give me the best chance. This is not new to BMW who have competed with Mercedes using inferior tech for years, but also took more engineering risks.

Even so-called bulletproof Porsche can't do it right. The intermediate shaft fiasco of their new water-cooled cars was finally solved in 2009 after producing self-destructing motors for 11 or so years.

PL


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

montr said:


> I am not blaming the dealer, the problem is all BMW.


Its a complex issue that probably took BMW by surprise. It is not like them to blindly test tech on the public, unless you believe they follow Microsoft's business model...

Somehow replacing parts under warranty became common instead of solving the problems to begin with. I believe some car makers think customers of new cars are better served, from a public relations aspect, with "throwing parts at a car."

I still don't believe dealers keep the best employees - not with the profit structure that they have. Good employees are also hard to find. It seems that many good mechanics start their own business or join a private repair shop for all the right reasons. A really good dealer once told me that overall satisfaction in the new car industry is good if it reaches 50%. This may have improved over the years, but being in a public-contact industry myself, I can relate.

PL


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Pierre Louis said:


> [ ... ]
> I still don't believe dealers keep the best employees - not with the profit structure that they have. Good employees are also hard to find. It seems that many good mechanics start their own business or join a private repair shop for all the right reasons. [ ... ]PL


I believe that you are correct on all points.

I have used two dealers, the two nearest me. One would not allow the mechanics in to public view, and they made a mess. The other obviously trusted their mechanics skills and appearances and had their lounge/lunch room in the row of offices; but my work there was non-invasive. These gentlemen were all gray heads.

I started off as a technician. After I retired, a co-worker started a consultancy and asked me to join. I made my offer that was rejected, and later discovered that he was hiring for shipboard work, engineers working as technicians with dirty hands.


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## bimmerup-sonny (May 29, 2013)

firstbimmer said:


> Was going good with my 2011 335d and then I got close to 90k miles and the car decided to raid my bank account.
> 
> First...reduced power light decides to visit off and on. Bad MAF sensor. Replace that and replace front bushings and two front tires and alignment and air filter while its in the shop...
> 
> ...


I am going through similar issue now...
After bad MAF and NOX sensor fault codes, I did the CBU cleaning via an indie garage,
6K miles later a slew of different injector # fault codes appear now, I found some forum post that talked about the below mandatory SW updates after CBU clean, so I had the indie garage performed the update. But another injector code came up 2 days later, and I've read that these injector codes will keep appearing until a new DDE is replaced. 
Although, one of the injector errors actually cause the engine to stutter at low RPMs,
so I blasted it with a double dose of Power Service DIESEL KLEEN, and it went away
within 2 days, not sure if the CBU cleaning actually pushed some of the carbon residual to the injectors.

I recall MONTR had gone thru similar issue and had his DDE replaced,
MONTR : did the DDE replacement resolve all the injector errors,
without any further injector replacements?

===================
ISTA/P 3.54.3
- New I-levels for the E90 and E70 contain new DDE software to correct the zero-mass adaptation faults from occurring after intake carbon cleaning as described in SI B13 04 14.
Target I-levels=> E89X-14-11-501 and E070-14-11-501
Note: This requires the service function for the DDE incremental wheel adaptation reset to be performed after programming - this test plan is included in ISTA 3.47.10.

ISTA 3.47.10
-The Service Function for the E90 and E70 M57Y diesels to reset the incremental wheel adaptation after carbon cleaning is included.
Important:
The vehicles must first be updated using ISTA/P 3.54.3 (Target I-levels=> E89X-14-11-501 and E070-14-11-501) for this test plan to complete successfully, as all previous software versions do not support this function.
With these ISTA/P and ISTA version releases, IRAP sessions are no longer necessary for both issues.

Because of these important updates, all workshop equipment must be updated by January 1, 2015 in order for Customer Care Package work to be performed at your center.
=======================


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

bimmerup-sonny said:


> I am going through similar issue now...
> After bad MAF and NOX sensor fault codes, I did the CBU cleaning via an indie garage,
> 6K miles later a slew of different injector # fault codes appear now, I found some forum post that talked about the below mandatory SW updates after CBU clean, so I had the indie garage performed the update. But another injector code came up 2 days later, and I've read that these injector codes will keep appearing until a new DDE is replaced.
> Although, one of the injector errors actually cause the engine to stutter at low RPMs,
> ...


To my knowledge, the DDE was not replaced but I had many software versions. The current version E89X-14-11-501 in combination with a CBU cleanup is the fix that appears to have solved the injectors never ending replacement circle.

BMW started to reprogram the DDE in my car back in June 2010 (campaign 130310) to Dec 2015 (level E89X-14-11-501).


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

montr said:


> To my knowledge, the DDE was not replaced but I had many software versions. The current version E89X-14-11-501 in combination with a CBU cleanup is the fix that appears to have solved the injectors never ending replacement circle.
> 
> BMW started to reprogram the DDE in my car back in June 2010 (campaign 130310) to Dec 2015 (level E89X-14-11-501).


All I know since my CBU cleaning and associated DDE reprogram in mid 2014, my DEF usage is nearly zero. I thought it actually was zero but after 28K miles it finally popped the xxx miles to no start. Being that the ratio of DEF to fuel needs to be at least 1%, NOx emissions cannot be meeting specs.

At least they never tried to or needed to change any injectors. Still on all 6 originals at 76K miles and car runs as good as ever.


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## firstbimmer (May 25, 2006)

Thanks for the heads up on software info. I will definitely bring this up. My SA is always willing to listen to any info I bring in from the board and he also brings the shop foreman in so we can have an open discussion about the technical aspects of whats being done and what has been done. I know they were updating software to recent version but I thinknthat was done just prior to cbu cleaning. So if codes come up afterwards that can be a first thing for them to look at before any invasive efforts.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

KeithS said:


> All I know since my CBU cleaning and associated DDE reprogram in mid 2014, my DEF usage is nearly zero. I thought it actually was zero but after 28K miles it finally popped the xxx miles to no start. Being that the ratio of DEF to fuel needs to be at least 1%, NOx emissions cannot be meeting specs.
> 
> At least they never tried to or needed to change any injectors. Still on all 6 originals at 76K miles and car runs as good as ever.


Me too, the DEF consumption is very low. I only add 2.5 gallons when I get the message "xxx miles" to no start. It is important not to overfill the DEF because the vent tube (on top of the tank) will get blocked by the crystallization of the overflow.


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Yup, can add up quickly. Just got mine back after $2500 donated to my indie. A bad Harmonic balancer (attached), led to charging malfunction, which led to somehow frying my FRM triggering full lighting system malfunction and passenger restraint system malfunction. So, new battery with registration, new harmonic balancer, new FRM, and reprogramming. Had them changed both belts even though they appeared ok, but since everything was off anyway, just had them replaced for added safety measure. had the expensive diesel oil change and fuel filter change while I was at it. luckily all my emissions parts were already replaced under warranty, so hopefully if they fail again they'll fail within the 2 years warranty period, otherwise, I'm donating the car to NPR.

At least I wasn't as unfortunate as the other 2010 335d owner, knock on wood, who needed the same thing as I did plus all new glow plugs and regulator. I'm sure that was a hefty bill.


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

imtjm said:


> Yup, can add up quickly. Just got mine back after $2500 donated to my indie. A bad Harmonic balancer (attached), led to charging malfunction, which led to somehow frying my FRM triggering full lighting system malfunction and passenger restraint system malfunction. So, new battery with registration, new harmonic balancer, new FRM, and reprogramming. Had them changed both belts even though they appeared ok, but since everything was off anyway, just had them replaced for added safety measure. had the expensive diesel oil change and fuel filter change while I was at it. luckily all my emissions parts were already replaced under warranty, so hopefully if they fail again they'll fail within the 2 years warranty period, otherwise, I'm donating the car to NPR.
> 
> At least I wasn't as unfortunate as the other 2010 335d owner, knock on wood, who needed the same thing as I did plus all new glow plugs and regulator. I'm sure that was a hefty bill.


Another harmonic dampner (engine is internally balanced, so this isn't a balancer). How many miles please? I'm keeping a data base by username and miles. Thanks


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