# *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts



## RichP (Apr 23, 2002)

On Monday I was at Rogue Engineering to install their DMS Exhaust. (which by the way was worth every penny and then some... Its not just a nice sound..its addicting; and my gas receipts will show Ive been making it sing quite a bit..) When I was about to leave, the UPS truck showed up with the shipment of the new Rogue Engineering Transmission mounts, so I figured what the hell..

The install takes a few minutes tops. (Granted they have a lift, but beside raising the car, the install is easy) The rogue mounts are designed such that they do not require an aluminum support cup. Holding them in your hand, you can tell that they are stiffer than stock immediately (you can actually easily defect the stock ones by pinching on them..no wonder people can misshift so easy)

My concern in the past with transmission mounts, having driven a few cars equiped with other brands of mounts, is that there is alot of NVH (noise, vibration, and harhness..lol I go to grad school for this stuff now) associated with them. Stiff is good, but too stiff makes the car into one of those seedy hotel massage beds. When the install was completed, I didnt notice any difference in car vibration. The shifter itself exhibits a VERY SLIGHT vibration, which for all I know may have always been there and now I am sensitized to it. Shifting the car is still smooth, although you can tell that the gates are much firmer now. Also, while this is not good for the car, if you have the car in first (or any other gear) and try to bend the shifter left to right, you can feel the normal left right movement as before, but then when you apply enough force to feel the elastic tranny mounts, before you could defect the shifter more, now you cannot. Stiffer, yes! directly welded to the car, no!

Overall, I am happy with them. They are firm enough to keep the transmission where it should be, yet they are undetectable when normally driving; its all benefit with no drawback. Not bad at all, consider them a $45 insurance policy against replacing a motor.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



31st330i said:


> *don't see your point. the OEM engine software already does that via a rev limiter.
> 
> the "gates" are made of metal (cast iron as I recall) and are inside the trans. they don't get any stiffer than that. what you may be observing is slightly reduced play in the shift linkage.
> 
> after reading your reveiew, I still don't understand what the net benefit is (other than slightly reduced 0-60 times due to the weight reduction of your wallet) to even the most agressivly driven street car. what am I missing? :dunno: *


The engine software can't prevent you from blowing a motor if you downsift from 4 to 1 when the transmission moves and 3rd gear is no longer in the same place.

It happens and I think my transmission might shift a bit


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> The engine software can't prevent you from blowing a motor if you downsift from 4 to 1 when the transmission moves and 3rd gear is no longer in the same place.
> 
> It happens and I think my transmission might shift a bit *


yes you're right. I hadn't had my coffe yet and wasn't thinking it through properly.

still..... I don't think I can recall ever having missed a shift in the bimmer (just once recently in the miata). I'll have to pay more attention and see if I can uncover the need for this product.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



31st330i said:


> *
> 
> yes you're right. I hadn't had my coffe yet and wasn't thinking it through properly.
> 
> still..... I don't think I can recall ever having missed a shift in the bimmer (just once recently in the miata). I'll have to pay more attention and see if I can uncover the need for this product.  *


The only need for this product is if you track your car regularly. Under even very aggressive driving conditions on the street there's no way for the transmission to shift that much that would cause you to miss a shift. However, when you're 10/10th on the track, there is *some* slop in the transmission that can cause the selector and the gear to mis-align.

This is a notorious problem with E36 M3s that are driven to the extreme. If you don't track your car, you don't need it.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

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The HACK said:


> *
> 
> The only need for this product is if you track your car regularly. *


Which is why I got the UUC TMEs!


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

RichP said:


> *The rogue mounts are designed such that they do not require an aluminum support cup. Holding them in your hand, you can tell that they are stiffer than stock immediately (you can actually easily defect the stock ones by pinching on them..no wonder people can misshift so easy)
> *


I doubt the Rogue mounts are so much stiffer than the UUC mounts that the cups are plain unnecessary. The cups just further stiffen the setup in either case. Compared to stock, either set of mounts is significantly stiffer...and between the two of them, I doubt one could tell the difference other than color.

Either way, they are a great mod! :thumbup: I don't get any additional noise inside, either, and they really tightened up my shift gates. Perhaps I won't truly benefit from the anti-misshifting properties until I hit the track, but I can feel plenty of difference in day-to-day driving.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



Jetfire said:


> *and they really tightened up my shift gates.*


 sorry, gotta correct your terminology. while you might be preventing movement of the transmission and the result is more precise shifting under extreme conditions, this does not tighten up shift gates. shift gates are typically small cast iron parts at the shift lever end of the shift rod. at the other end of the rod (there are usually 3 - 4 shift rods inside of a manual trans) is the shift fork. the only way to tighten up the gates is to replace the worn parts.



> *but I can feel plenty of difference in day-to-day driving. *


can you expand on this?


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



31st330i said:


> * sorry, gotta correct your terminology. while you might be preventing movement of the transmission and the result is more precise shifting under extreme conditions, this does not tighten up shift gates....*


Yes, of course the mounts did not mechanically change the gates. I should really have said that my shifts into and out of the gates now feel "tighter," for lack of a better one-word description.



> *
> can you expand on this? *


Sure. Shifting in my M3 has never been watered-down, but there is a certain amount of leeway when moving into and out of the gears. When I was just learning to drive a stick, that vagueness always scared me - I was never sure exactly what gear I was about to engage.

The TMEs reduces the amount of freeform wiggling room I have when shifting. Some people have used analogies like "rifle bolt action" to describe the difference, that's somewhat accurate. A true short shift kit is what would really give me that rifle bolt feeling, but the TMEs definitely improved my feel for the gates/gears/whatever. I am a lot more confident during quick shifts now, and the shift lever slips into place more easily at any speed.

I realize that that the original intent, and one of the primary marketing points, of the TMEs was the reduction of transmission movement during extreme driving. Yes, they do do this...but they also affect my daily driving in a positive way. A great deal for $70, less if you don't buy the aluminum cups.

PS- this post has some absolutely horrendous grammatical errors. Kids, don't type this at home.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



> *
> Sure. Shifting in my M3 has never been watered-down, but there is a certain amount of leeway when moving into and out of the gears. When I was just learning to drive a stick, that vagueness always scared me - I was never sure exactly what gear I was about to engage.
> 
> The TMEs reduces the amount of freeform wiggling room I have when shifting. Some people have used analogies like "rifle bolt action" to describe the difference, that's somewhat accurate. A true short shift kit is what would really give me that rifle bolt feeling, but the TMEs definitely improved my feel for the gates/gears/whatever. *


yes, a short shifter kit is the way to address this complaint (notice that I didn't use the word "problem").

glad to hear that it gives you more confidence but I think this is still subjective. I've driven many cars, including ratty old mazdas and datsun 510's that had a worn out shift mechanisms made worse by shift levers that were a mile long and it had no effect on my confidence. furthermore, even then, I rarely missed a shift and NEVER blew an engine. the stock BMW shift change mechanism is far from sloppy or imprecise. IMHO, that's mostly a problem invented and perpetuated by the after market vendors. - again, my opinion.

the problem might be more easily and inexpensivly addressed by replacing the small bushings in the shift control linkage with higher quality bushings that don't allow as much compression. this is really the reason why the short shifter kits improve the ability to find and select the desired gear. installing the kit displaces the less rigid (but not mushy) OEM bushings.

spending that same $70 to work on your driving skills (not saying that you're a bad driver) will also boost your confidence. in fact, you'd probably get more for your money.



> *and the shift lever slips into place more easily at any speed.*


 perhaps you can *find* the gear better now but slipping into gear is the job of the synchros with the hub and slider assemblies.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



31st330i said:


> *spending that same $70 to work on your driving skills (not saying that you're a bad driver) will also boost your confidence. in fact, you'd probably get more for your money.*


I'm working on that.  I still contend that the part made a physical, noticeable difference in daily driving. And while BMW's shift mechanism is heads and tails above what I've seen in 15-year-old Subarus, they still have some play and the TMEs still improved my driving experience.



> *
> perhaps you can *find* the gear better now but slipping into gear is the job of the synchros with the hub and slider assemblies. *


Once again, my apologies for using incorrect terminology. "Slip" is used in the manner you speak, so I should've used some other verb like "find." But don't you think that's being a little nitpicky? You understand what I'm trying to say. It's plain as day that the TMEs do no physically alter anything except for the tranny mounts.


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## Guest (Oct 3, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*

Jetfire-

I want to install my TMEs this weekend. To confirm, the process is-

-Put the car up on jackstands or ramps
-Support the tranny with the tray of your floor jack
-Remove the tranny crossbrace
-Repalce the mounts
-Put the tranny crossbrace back
-Put everything back on the ground


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



TD said:


> *Jetfire-
> 
> I want to install my TMEs this weekend. To confirm, the process is-
> 
> ...


Yes. When you remove the crossbrace, you will first loosen/remove the old tranny mount nuts from the top (where they attach to the tranny itself). This step is where I spent most of my time, eventually resorting to using a little wd-40 and a lot of leverage as the old nuts were a little rusted.

Also, once the crossbrace is back in place, remove the floor jack before you finish tightening the upper nuts on your TMEs. FOr obvious reasons, not doing this may leave you with TMEs that aren't fully tightened on top. This whole process should take well under an hour, probably closer to half an hour depending on your patience with the stock nuts.


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## 31st330i (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: *REVIEW* Rogue Engineering Tranny Mounts*



Jetfire said:


> *I'm working on that.  I still contend that the part made a physical, noticeable difference in daily driving. And while BMW's shift mechanism is heads and tails above what I've seen in 15-year-old Subarus, they still have some play and the TMEs still improved my driving experience.*


like I said, it's subjective and I'm glad that it works for you. don't get me wrong here. everytime some new product comes out and is said to solve some problem on an already over engineered car, I become skeptical. it's more like: _okay, I want this product so convince me. no.... take out the emotion, vendor FUD and junk science and really convince me that it solves a problem that I have._ see? that's my position.

so there's this thread on sway bars on the miata forum. for THAT car, the argument is that aftermarket sway bars make the car corner flatter but they are "solid axle conversion kits" and actually REDUCE overall grip and therefor cornering speeds for experienced drivers. for the less experienced driver, the flatter cornering increases confidence and increases _their_ cornering speeds. not trying to open a can of worms on suspension here. rather, I want to illustrate that just because one's confidence is boosted, doesn't necesarily mean that the car performs any better than it did before. you do and the product in question might be considered a crutch.

*



Once again, my apologies for using incorrect terminology. "Slip" is used in the manner you speak, so I should've used some other verb like "find." But don't you think that's being a little nitpicky? You understand what I'm trying to say. It's plain as day that the TMEs do no physically alter anything except for the tranny mounts.

Click to expand...

*well, i do think that in this case it is important to use the correct term so as not to allow one of the many hundreds of people who may read this to mislead themselves. actually, I knew what you meant and knew that you knew what you meant. 

anyway... good thread. thanks for sharing!!!


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