# Formula 1 2012 Season <<<SPOILER>>>



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

This thread tapered off this season, I think do to the monotonous inevitability at the end of the season. Macca was coming on strong, but it was too little too late. Hope there's better competition in 2012. 

The big news, Kimi's back. There'll be 6 WDC's on the grid next year. Hope it makes for some good wheel to wheel racing at the front half of the race. 

And as always...GO REDS!


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UJ5PF87xAdU


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

I missed Kimi mumbling his way through an interview. 

Do you think that alien spaceship in the corner is controlling his thoughts?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Looks like USGP at Austin is back on. Good news all around...


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

So many seats still not filled, what gives this year?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96751


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

F1Crazy said:


> So many seats still not filled, what gives this year?


Two more seats filled with STR announcing their lineup. Not many left. I'm guessing Petrov buys the empty seat at Williams.



franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96751


No surprise there.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7381315/Di-Resta-Hulkenberg-Name-FI-Drivers

So with Force India and STR naming their drivers this week, doesn't that leave just one open seat at Williams? And now the question becomes, who's got more money, Petrov or Sutil ? I'm still betting Petrov gets the seat.

Glad to see Hulk back in a race seat, and at a reasonably competitive team. Hope he can shine and eventually get into a front runner. I think he's got what it takes.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96787


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96787


Bernie should STFU ! Seems like he doesn't want F1 to succeed in North America. He wants to keep going to places like China and Bahrain, where the money is endless and the fans practically non existent.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7388012/Alonso-Ferrari-Want-To-Taste-Success

Alonso talking about changes to the suspension. I bet that means they're going to a pull rod rear just like Redbull and McLaren. Not really all that risky, sort of two years behind.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Teams rate the drivers of 2011..

http://plus.autosport.com/free/feature/4122/the-f1-team-principals-top-ten-drivers/


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Teams rate the drivers of 2011..
> 
> http://plus.autosport.com/free/feature/4122/the-f1-team-principals-top-ten-drivers/


Hmmm... Interesting how far down Webber is. And Massa isn't even on the list, guess that's not really a surprise.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

I am shocked that you had the nerve to start this thread without waiting for Berford to do it...

N00b. :tsk:


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Hmmm... Interesting how far down Webber is. And Massa isn't even on the list, guess that's not really a surprise.


Yes I agree but then the list is based on their performance in 2011 and Massa had (one of) his worst years. Massa has been very fast in the past. 2012 will make or break him.

I'm really looking forward to 2012. And I'm cheering for Red Bull again and also the newly, renamed Lotus Renualt with Kimi. It will be interesting to see if it takes Kimi as long as Schumi to get up to speed.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> I am shocked that you had the nerve to start this thread without waiting for Berford to do it...
> 
> N00b. :tsk:


I was waiting but it didn't seem to be happening.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Yes I agree but then the list is based on their performance in 2011 and Massa had (one of) his worst years. Massa has been very fast in the past. 2012 will make or break him.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to 2012. And I'm cheering for Red Bull again and also the newly, renamed Lotus Renualt with Kimi. It will be interesting to see if it takes Kimi as long as Schumi to get up to speed.


I think that due to his age , and the fact that he was still racing, Kimi should get back up to speed pretty quickly. I think his problems will come from his disinterest in testing and development. The only nock against Kimi is that all he wants to do is sit in a fast car and drive. He's certainly very good at it, but if the Lotus isn't fast out of the box, they could be in trouble.

I'm obviously not hoping for more redbull dominance. Two things I think will help get the Reds back in front: first is history, ie: Adrien Newey wins two championships in a row, then goes off the boil. Second, I think the new diffuser and exhaust regs. will help Ferrari as we saw at Silverstone.

Oh, and one more thing, Alonso. Love him or hate him, the boy can flat out drive. He's also molded the team around himself. Give him a competitive car, and watch out.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Yes I agree but then the list is based on their performance in 2011 and Massa had (one of) his worst years. Massa has been very fast in the past. 2012 will make or break him.
> 
> I'm really looking forward to 2012. And I'm cheering for Red Bull again and also the newly, renamed Lotus Renualt with Kimi. It will be interesting to see if it takes Kimi as long as Schumi to get up to speed.


And as to 2012 making or braking Massa, I believe he cracked for good the moment Alonso passed him in the pitlane at china in 2010. Since then, he's been driving like he's already lost. And it all seems to be mental because he does have, or had the skills.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Oh, and one more thing, Alonso. Love him or hate him, the boy can flat out drive. He's also molded the team around himself. Give him a competitive car, and watch out.


I agree with that. Got nothing against Alonso. He's good.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> I agree with that. Got nothing against Alonso. He's good.


He also does seem to have matured emotionally in the last few years. He seems calmer, and isn't making the same anti- team statements he used to make when he had a bad weekend. Overall, he and Ferrari seem to be a good fit.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> I was waiting but it didn't seem to be happening.


Sorry, I was "asleep at the wheel," so to speak. Also, glad you're back Patrick. Refreshing.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Alonso says Kubica is the best.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96968


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

He could be right.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Alonso says Kubica is the best.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96968


They're close friends (alonso was the only driver to visit Kubica after his rally crash in the hospital) so it's not surprising he would say that.

I wish him all the best, and would like to see him come back to his former level, but I wonder if he'll ever regain the dexterity you need to operate an F1 steering wheel again. I remember seeing some on-board footage once of Robert driving the BMW. For an entire lap, his fingers never rested, he was shifting, turning dials, pressing buttons, etc. The amount of activity was incredible, and that was a few years ago. I would imagine it gets harder every year.

I think we just need to wait and see what he can do. If there was permanent nerve damage, I fear his F1 career could be finished.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Mixed feelings seeing Senna name at Williams but wishing all the best to Bruno.

http://youtu.be/y3qr_ZlL4dk


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Too bad for Rubens Barrichello but times move on.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Yup, sorry to see Rubens go, but all things must come to an end. 

But Senna? I'm sorry, but all he's got is money and a famous name. Williams needs a driver with much more talent, and the experience to develop the car, if they expect to ever drag themselves out of the basement. I think they're going to find it hard to stay ahead of Caterham this year.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> Yup, sorry to see Rubens go, but all things must come to an end.
> 
> But Senna? I'm sorry, but all he's got is money and a famous name. Williams needs a driver with much more talent, and the experience to develop the car, if they expect to ever drag themselves out of the basement. I think they're going to find it hard to stay ahead of Caterham this year.


Harsh words, let's give Senna a chance. The only top driver that got into F1 without major backing in recent years is maybe Kubica, that's all.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Ferrari's leaked photo of the f12 looks different.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> Ferrari's leaked photo of the f12 looks different.


Yeah, those high side pods with the wings in front of them are pretty interesting. They're also finally going with a pull rod rear. I suspected they would, but with the changes to diffuser regulations, I wonder how much that matters now.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Also Rory Byrne came out of retirement to help design this car.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Check out the far extensions on the rear wing side supports.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7465308/-Ferrari-To-Assist-Kubica-s-Comeback-

The rumors persist. Kubica and Alonso would be a great driver pairing. If Kubica can come back to his full potential, and given a good car, I could see a lot of 1-2's in the future.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7465308/-Ferrari-To-Assist-Kubica-s-Comeback-
> 
> The rumors persist. Kubica and Alonso would be a great driver pairing. If Kubica can come back to his full potential, and given a good car, I could see a lot of 1-2's in the future.


I agree but that's a big IF. IMHO he's had some pretty scary crashes and he bounced right back so I think if he physically is ok then he will be back. It's very nice of Ferrari putting faith in him I do know him and Alonso are very good friends that could have something to do with it.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

The mp4-27 not as extreme as I expected but a good looking car.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Here's a few more pics.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> Here's a few more pics.


I think the side pod openings, and the fact that they've gone away from the u-shaped side pod is pretty interesting. Certainly not a very "revolutionary" looking car, but good looking none the less. I like how there is no diffuser on it for the photo shoot.

Meanwhile, snow delayed the Ferrari intro and it will be online tomorrow. I get the feeling that of the front runners, Ferrari's 2012 challenger will be the biggest departure from their previous car. God knows, they need it.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Well, all I can say is, going fast always looks good. I hope the F2012 is fast.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

The Ferrari looks very cool IMHO not pretty or beautiful but very to the point and purposeful. Here are some shots of it.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> The Ferrari looks very cool IMHO not pretty or beautiful but very to the point and purposeful. Here are some shots of it.


I'd say, from the sidepods back, it's a good looking car, but I think that nose is aweful. But if it's fast, I can get used to it. And I wish they had kept the red, white and green stripe on the back of the wing.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> I'd say, from the sidepods back, it's a good looking car, but I think that nose is aweful. But if it's fast, I can get used to it. And I wish they had kept the red, white and green stripe on the back of the wing.


The Ferrari doesn't look as well as the overall integration of the McLaren. But looks are everything.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

So far the only car without stepped nose is McLaren. 4 out of 5 with the stepped nose hope McLaren didn't miss something. Red bulls launch is tmrw guessing they are going with a stepped nose too.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Rb8 also with step.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

The RB8 and E20 look to be the most elegant solutions to the step nose. Ferraris may be so extreme because they're using a pull rod front. Sounds daring... Time will tell. 

Macca today said the car they unveiled isn't what it will look like at the first test, let alone Melbourne. They're still trying to hide some stuff. 

Interestingly, from what I can tell, Sauber is the only team that's allowed their diffuser to be photographed. Wonder if it's the real diffuser and they just don't care, or it's a fake?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> So far the only car without stepped nose is McLaren. 4 out of 5 with the stepped nose hope McLaren didn't miss something. Red bulls launch is tmrw guessing they are going with a stepped nose too.


I bet every engineer at McLaren is hoping the same thing.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Massa said the Ferrari needs a lot of work.....:yikes:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97420


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

berford said:


> Sorry, I was "asleep at the wheel," so to speak. Also, glad you're back Patrick. Refreshing.


I am not coming back here. Ever.

Go Räikkönen, and go to hell Scuderia El Banco/Santander FIAT.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Go Kimi and go Vettle.

Ferrari is still having troubles. But they could still 'get it together'. If everything on the car is new they have a lot of pcs to work with so it could just be a matter of time. It could also be a dog.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97453


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> I am not coming back here. Ever.
> 
> Go Räikkönen, and go to hell Scuderia El Banco/Santander FIAT.


You really need to relax before you blow a gasket. It's just entertainment.

Looks like the Reds are getting their act together. *As of today's lunch break it looks like Alonso has the fastest time of the week.*

As always... GO REDS!!! ( but you all knew I would say that

edit: My bad. Fastest lap of the week goes to Romain Grosjean on Thursday.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7502573/Alonso-Ends-First-Test-On-A-High-Note

So the F2012 isn't quite as ugly any more.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Ferrari still struggling and making excuses.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97481


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

*N00b.*



jonathan2263 said:


> You really need to relax before you blow a gasket. It's just entertainment.


Blow a gasket... What the hell would you know about F1? You're from god damn New Jersey!

Years back, we had some heated and spirited Formula 1 season spoiler threads here - you wouldn't know anything about that. That has ended, and now there is just fluff posted by people that cannot even spell the driver's or teams names correctly.

That said, I look forward to another season of fail for your "Reds". SF sold out to a Spanish bank, lost most of its British engineering talent, and is now run by a bunch of dazed and confused I-talians. Crash and burn, El Banco.

By the way, motorsports is serious business up here in Finland. Apologies if I come off as a bit rash.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Patrick said:


> Blow a gasket... What the hell would you know about F1? You're from god damn New Jersey!


Bite Me.

edit: oh, and by the way... Gasket Blown.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7518314/-Renault-power-needs-less-gas-

This is pretty interesting. If RBR is indeed starting 15-18 liters lighter than the McLaren's and Ferrari's , it could be a big factor in why they were always able to open up a big gap in the first few laps. And also why things seemed to even out towards the end of races.

Meanwhile, no testing this week... bummer.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7518314/-Renault-power-needs-less-gas-
> 
> This is pretty interesting. If RBR is indeed starting 15-18 liters lighter than the McLaren's and Ferrari's , it could be a big factor in why they were always able to open up a big gap in the first few laps. And also why things seemed to even out towards the end of races.
> 
> Meanwhile, no testing this week... bummer.


They could have also been using less fuel during qualifying we know how good they did there.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> They could have also been using less fuel during qualifying we know how good they did there.


Don't think so. Everyone qualifies on low fuel, and after Hamilton running out of fuel on the way back to the pit in Montreal in 2010, they "clarified" the rule so that every car needs to be drained of 1 quart for testing after their run.

Oh, wait, now I get it. Their more fuel efficient engine allows them to run with a bit less fuel and still have enough left for the test. Duh, brain fade...

I guess that could be right. The difference in quali probably isn't that great, but sometimes Vettel was pulling it out by a few hundredths. Half a liter less could have been it. But still, if they're all finishing quali with one quart left in the tank, and if they calculate correctly, they do, then I wonder how much lighter they are for one or two laps. It can't be much, but it could be just enough.

Remember in 2010 when Christian Horner was complaining about the Renault's lack of horsepower? I'm sure if he tries that again, he'll get a collective STFU from the pit lane.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

I was at that race watching Hamilton push his car back to the pits was very funny. That was also a great race weekend. I guess your right with the amount of fuel a car needs for two Laps it really wouldn't make much of a deference. But hey what do I know I'm from New York lmao .


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> I was at that race watching Hamilton push his car back to the pits was very funny. That was also a great race weekend. I guess your right with the amount of fuel a car needs for two Laps it really wouldn't make much of a deference. But hey what do I know I'm from New York lmao .


Yeah, them intertubes stop working at Nova Scotia. 
I've been going to the Canadian GP for most of the last decade. Ham pushing his car was pretty funny, but then again, he did put it on pole. 
This year was certainly the best. We waited out the rain under some trees near the support paddock, and we're rewarded with an epic race. Looking at how wet the track was for a while, I truly believed the race wouldn't be restarted. 
Then 2013... Canada and then a home GP. I can hardly wait. After party at my home, all are invited.

I was thinking more about the fuel difference in quali. It can't be much because they're all pretty low, but it might be interesting to compare everyone's first and second sector on their last flying lap. It would be very telling if the difference was consistently there.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Wasn't able to get up there last GP but have plans for this year then we do get Jersey. McLaren have been very quiet since testing hope its not a bad quiet. Both Hamilton and Button said the car was good wonder if they have something new planned for the next test.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

For Ferrari fans...

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/4222/the-pros-and-cons-of-ferrari-pullrod-design/


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

2011 cars used blown diffusers which burned extra fuel in the exhaust system mainly to aid braking.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

F1Crazy said:


> Lotus looked impressive on long runs as well, they may challenge Mercedes or even Ferrari.


Wow totally forgot about them lotus did look really good during testing and also have great drivers expect lotus to be up there.

So I guess Ferrari wasn't sandbagging reports of Ferrari changing there chassis and having to pass crash tests again. http://www.forumula1.com/2012/f1/f1...eed:+Forumula1-News+(Forumula1.net+-+F1+News)


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The different exhaust theories on the RB, McLaren, Sauber, Ferrari & Mercedes.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/4265/tech-notes-why-sidepods-are-the-new-secret-to-speed/


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Can you feel it? F1 live tonight (early tomorrow morning). 

I've been looking for the free love timing app, but it doesn't seem to be out this year. Anyone having any luck finding it?


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> Can you feel it? F1 live tonight (early tomorrow morning).
> 
> I've been looking for the free love timing app, but it doesn't seem to be out this year. Anyone having any luck finding it?


Yes so ready for this season to start I can't wait to see these new cars on my tv. I don't know what's going on with the live timing app it was nice to have


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

white75li said:


> Yes so ready for this season to start I can't wait to see these new cars on my tv. I don't know what's going on with the live timing app it was nice to have


After much investigation, I believe the good, free live timing was shut down by Bernie. Apparently, we've been taking food out of his children's mouths. F1live.com has become espnf1.com, and their "timing" is a joke. I paid the $28.99 for the official app. I just have to have it.

So after two sessions, I would say, not only have we not really learned anything, the winter testing times may also have been meaningless. Macca looked good in p1, but didn't bother in p2. 
Where were the Lotus'? After looking so strong in testing they did nothing. Hardly any meaningful laps in p2. 
RBR seem to be getting laps, running their program and not caring about setting times yet. 
And Ferrari... Alonso's time in p2 was set on primes. He never ran on options and would have probably ended in p2 but slowed way down in sector 3 on his last lap ( probably to avoid a spinning Kobayashi). Were the Reds sandbagging in testing? 
Looks like we'll still have to wait until qualifying to learn anything substantive.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

Lotus had steering problems again so that kept them in the garage for most of the session. McLaren and Mercgp both looked really good. Ferrari is still tricky we will just have to wait and see the results on sun


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

S. Domenicalli said Ferrari has identified their problem areas as being "the speed and traction." Well, at least they got the color right. 
Right now, the best thing they have is Alonso. That man has dragged that car to results that very few others could. 
Interesting race. Redbull and McLaren look pretty even and results in the opening few races could be largely decided in quali. 
Hamilton looked very pouty on the podium. I think he's getting owned by his teammate. After a great first two years, he's certainly gone off the boil.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Lovely first round, IMO. The McLaren camp should be happy campers. Hope we see some real competition this year after the BIG BORE of 2011.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Lovely first round, IMO. The McLaren camp should be happy campers. Hope we see some real competition this year after the BIG BORE of 2011.


All the McLaren camp except Hamilton, I'm sure.

It does look like we're in for some good ones this year. RBR will certainly not go down without a fight, and Lotus looks pretty good too. 
It looks like the Mercs are qualifying wonders that eat their tires on a full load of fuel. I wonder if that has anything to do with their DRS/F-duct device? Maybe their losing so much downforce that the tires start sliding too much. Hmmm...
And I'm hoping Ferrari gets it together to challenge for some wins this year. We need as many teams as possible to fight.


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## white75li (Dec 29, 2009)

jonathan2263 said:


> All the McLaren camp except Hamilton, I'm sure.
> 
> It does look like we're in for some good ones this year. RBR will certainly not go down without a fight, and Lotus looks pretty good too.
> It looks like the Mercs are qualifying wonders that eat their tires on a full load of fuel. I wonder if that has anything to do with their DRS/F-duct device? Maybe their losing so much downforce that the tires start sliding too much. Hmmm...
> And I'm hoping Ferrari gets it together to challenge for some wins this year. We need as many teams as possible to fight.


Hamilton did not look happy during the press conference.

I think Ferrari should be up there soon I'm hoping that's not the full potential of the car. They are the only ones who did a complete redo of the car I'm thinking Mclaren and RBR are closer to the full potential of the car and Ferrari are not even close. But It could be just wishful thinking.


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## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> After much investigation, I believe the good, free live timing was shut down by Bernie. Apparently, we've been taking food out of his children's mouths. F1live.com has become espnf1.com, and their "timing" is a joke. I paid the $28.99 for the official app. I just have to have it.
> .


I also downloaded the app to my iPad. I actually think its much improved over the 2011 version. I like the split screen between the timing data and the course map, and especially the ability to d/l the qualifying and race data after the fact. Together with my DVR, it's like I'm watching live without having to get up at two in the morning. Since you can pause either one, it's easy to keep them in sync.

Last year, when it was live, the few second delay on Speed always bothered me.

The big downside is the cost ... From free to $28.99 is a true Bernie - esque move.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

At first sight, $28.99 seems like a lot for an app. I almost never download any pay apps. But then again, I am an obsessed F1 fan, the app adds more info to the races, and after all, in a season with 20 races, it's only $1.45 per race. Not so bad after all.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

WOW, after Australia and the first two practice sessiona of Malaysia, it sure looks like McLaren has it all together.



:thumbup:


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> WOW, after Australia and the first two practice sessiona of Malaysia, it sure looks like McLaren has it all together.
> 
> :thumbup:


Yeah they do. And Redbull seems to be struggling for grip. So far, this looks like it could be an intriguing year.

Merc looks fast in qualifying trim, but they're eating their tires. I bet Alonso beats them both in the race just because, if it doesn't rain, he'll stop one less time than them.

Too bad about Kimi taking a grid penalty, but then again, it should be fun to watch him charge through the field.

I'm predicting that Perez steps into the #2 seat at Ferrari after the summer break...


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Very exciting qualifying, especially compared to last years snooze fest. I can't help it to cheer for Schumi, at 43 he's top 3 in qualifying, wow. Also very happy for Kimi, he's a breeze of fresh air this year. Having said that, go Jenson! 

I feel sorry for Alonso, he deserves a better car.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

That was a flawless drive by the master. Like him or not, you just can't deny Alonso's skills. Dragging what is realistically only the 9th or 10th fastest car on the grid up to a win is incredible. And for the first time in years, the team worked flawlessly, made all the right calls, and certainly looked to be firing on all cylinders. 

But Massa, well, what can you say ?

Perez had an amazing drive too. If it wasn't for his one slip, he had the faster car and looked to have every chance to take the win. I'm sure he'll be the next Ferrari driver, if not this year, then certainly next. 

Hearing the confusion over Vettel's radio at the end was priceless. I know there's three weeks to China, and time to fix things, but RBR certainly looks to have lost their edge. 

And why can't Ham convert poles to wins? He's got the car, but a couple more races like the last two and we'll be seeing mopey boy again. 

Nine different teams in the top ten, a Sauber driver on the podium, an unlikely win, Alonso leading the championship and RBR on the back foot... Looks to be a vintage year.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Yeah, after the departure of Kubica, Alonso is lonely on top. They are the only 2 drivers capable of driving the car 0.5 s beyond the car's limit on any given day but give Kimi a few more races and he'll be there as well.


----------



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jonathan2263 said:


> I'm predicting that Perez steps into the #2 seat at Ferrari after the summer break...


Lmao. Are you completely out to lunch? Again? Still? Right, you are from New Jersey...

Why would Perez want to drive a slower car than what he already has? And for a team (SF) that is totally upside down?

Massa will be replaced by Trulli.

Good grief son, even El Banco said that today's result doesn't change the fact that their car is a turd. This was a fluke win. Hell, even Williams is faster.

They (SF) already have hit the panic button. A completely new car will be ready by Bahrain. Meh.

Go Reds... Lol. And bite me twat.


----------



## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Hey Patrick, how do you like Kimi's return so far?


----------



## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

No matter what, that was an exciting race! I love that there's no clear dominant force this year. (yet?)


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7719342/-Webber-to-Ferrari-as-Perez-stop-gap-
> 
> Well this comes as a surprise. Although, Webber would probably be a good fit. He's not quite good enough to threaten Alonso's ego, and he does qualify and race well. If he could only learn to get off the line quickly, he just might help the Scuderia get back up there in the constructors standings. And then, I guess for 2014, Perez would step in.
> 
> I wonder if it's true ...


Doubtful, I think. Everybody seems to be happy at RBR at the moment.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Doubtful, I think. Everybody seems to be happy at RBR at the moment.


The thing that I think might lend credence to this is Webber is on a one year contract at RBR. I would think it's pretty assured that Massa is gone at the end of the year, and if it's true that they want Perez to get a bit more experience before he steps into a red car, I can't think of anyone who is available that Ferrari would want.

Time will tell. Until then, at least it gives us something to talk about while there's not much else going on.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> The thing that I think might lend credence to this is Webber is on a one year contract at RBR. I would think it's pretty assured that Massa is gone at the end of the year, and if it's true that they want Perez to get a bit more experience before he steps into a red car, I can't think of anyone who is available that Ferrari would want.
> 
> Time will tell. Until then, at least it gives us something to talk about while there's not much else going on.


Here's a bit more info to speculate about Massa and Webber.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99271


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> The thing that I think might lend credence to this is Webber is on a one year contract at RBR. I would think it's pretty assured that Massa is gone at the end of the year, and if it's true that they want Perez to get a bit more experience before he steps into a red car, I can't think of anyone who is available that Ferrari would want.
> 
> Time will tell. Until then, at least it gives us something to talk about while there's not much else going on.


Here's a bit more info to speculate about Massa and Webber.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99271


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Here's a bit more info to speculate about Massda and Webber.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99271


Massa may do well to look at Indy Car. I'm not sure where he would fit in F1. If he keeps getting beat 20-1 in points by Alonso, none of the top teams with real championship ambitions will want him. I don't believe after so many years at Ferrari that he would have any interest in being a pay driver, so that leaves maybe only Force India and Sauber, and Sauber likes young, up and coming drivers. 
Massa was quite good for a few years, but recently, he looks like damaged goods and I think it has more to do with his teammate than his accident in '09. I would guess because of that, his options in F1 will be extremely limited.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/photo-gallery/7720525/Damp-Start-To-The-Mugello-Test#photo=2

Pics from the first morning at Mugello. The shots of the Ferrari seem to show some different ducting around the rear, and I'm pretty sure we're looking at an F-duct on the front wing.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/photo-gallery/7720525/Damp-Start-To-The-Mugello-Test#photo=2
> 
> Pics from the first morning at Mugello. The shots of the Ferrari seem to show some different ducting around the rear, and I'm pretty sure we're looking at an F-duct on the front wing.


Please point out the detail you see that leads you to an F duct.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Please point out the detail you see that leads you to an F duct.


Maybe it's just a shadow, but if you look at the horizontal elements , it looks to me like there's a slot gap on the lower edge. Look on the leading edge of the element that says "v-power" on it, and the edge of the horizontal piece to the left of that in the picture.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/photo-gallery/7725675/Closer-Look-At-F2012-s-Upgrades

For your viewing pleasure...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.planetf1.com/photo-gallery/7725675/Closer-Look-At-F2012-s-Upgrades
> 
> For your viewing pleasure...


For written explanations of the new Ferrari's changes shown in the pictures above you can go here...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99304


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> For written explanations of the new Ferrari's changes shown in the pictures above you can go here...
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99304


I've seen these quotes from Anderson on a few sights today. I'm waiting for James Allen to get into it to shed more light on the subject.

This is possibly the most fascinating area of F1. Airflow management has become so critical, that moving the exhaust ports a few inches one way or the other can totally change the behavior of a car. And they're not only looking for more downforce, but also how to stall the wings at key moments to remove downforce and drag... it's a brave new world.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Does anyone know the rule? After ham ran out of fuel in Canada qualifying, didn't they mandate that you must get back to the pit with enough fuel for the fia to draws sample for testing? Is there a penalty coming for Hamilton?
Besides that, pretty interesting grid. Alonso beats the Lotus' fair and square and everyone else protecting tires. And where did Maldanado come from?


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.planetf1.com/news/3213/7752184/Lewis-Stripped-Of-Pole-For-Rule-Breach

ooops...


----------



## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Doh!


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Great result for Williams. I guess it's not really a party until you set the garage on fire. Also, good to see a new guy on the podium. Maldanado's first podium and it's a win. Not bad. It would be nice if Williams could consistently fight at the front again. 
And who would have thought before the lights went green in Australia, that 5 races in, Alonso would be tied for the lead in the wdc? Amazing year so far.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

More Schumi crashing from behind http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99581


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> More Schumi crashing from behind http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99581


From the replay it sure looked like Senna moved to block in the braking zone, but Senna does make a good point about their braking points being so different. And Schumi complaining about being blocked is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. I think the stewards should have called it a racing incident and left it at that.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This is basically what Schumi said about tyres.....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99752


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

This why I gave up on Dennis and McLaren years ago. They were always promising w/o delivering.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99771


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

The 'Jersey' race is delayed per Eccelestone........"Maybe the New York race will take place in 2013, maybe 2014".

Dallas will happen this year.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

That was a helluva race!


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> Does anyone else think the F2012 is a great looking car?
> 
> Wow! What a race ! All kinds of passing. Great team work from some, pitiful from others. Top teams with only one car in the points. Midfield runners coming on strong. How much better can this season get?
> 
> And Alonso as the first two time winner and a twenty point lead. This is how championships are won. FORZA FORZA FORZA !!!


Hold on there. The championship is far from won...and Zo won't IMO.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Hild on there. The championship is far from won...and Zo won't IMO.


I know it's far from won. What I'm saying is you have to take everything you can get. When a win is possible, get it. If fifth is all that's possible, be sure to get that too. 
In Canada, Alonso's tires went off and he couldn't defend his position. Instead of trying too hard and maybe crashing out, he kept it on the island and secured as many points as possible. It's what Ham should have done yesterday, but unlike Alonso, he doesn't play the long game very well. 
We've still got more than half a season to go, and this year seems highly unpredictable (thankfully) but Alonso is driving impeccably, is using his head, and the team is firing on all cylinders. I'm keeping the faith...


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

If Christian Horner really believes that the "statistics say Fernando has to have one bad weekend in twenty", the Red Bull boss should look away now because the record books now declare that Alonso has scored points in each of the last twenty grands pix, finishing in the top five in all but two of those races. He's a human metronome in a bullet-proof car.

The above from PlanetF1.com . BTW, the record for consecutive points finishes is 24 held by Michael Schumaker during his time at Ferrari. Alonso is closing in.


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## isjoey (Mar 13, 2012)

That was without a doubt one of the best F1 races! What a great race! Alonso had one outstanding drive, was great. Speed made a good point about the tires being a huge factor in how this year is playing out so far. it's made for a great year so far, one of the best ever.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> If Christian Horner really believes that the "statistics say Fernando has to have one bad weekend in twenty", the Red Bull boss should look away now because the record books now declare that Alonso has scored points in each of the last twenty grands pix, finishing in the top five in all but two of those races. He's a human metronome in a bullet-proof car.
> 
> The above from PlanetF1.com . BTW, the record for consecutive points finishes is 24 held by Michael Schumaker during his time at Ferrari. Alonso is closing in.


WTF??? Zo only has four consecutive podiums...that's 20 more to go. In your wildest dreams.

BTW! what's his "celebration" penalty? By my reckoning it should be ten grid spots at Silverstone. Car trouble just doesn't wash.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> WTF??? Zo only has four consecutive podiums...that's 20 more to go. In your wildest dreams.
> 
> Michael Schumacher holds the record of most consecutive podiums (who else) at 19 between 2001 and 2002. In 2002 he became the only driver to be on every podium in a season. Alonso has the second most consecutive at 15. I was referring to consecutive points finishes which Alonso is closing in on.
> 
> BTW! what's his "celebration" penalty? By my reckoning it should be ten grid spots at Silverstone. Car trouble just doesn't wash.


I was pretty worried about that when he parked his car, but he said they had a problem, and apparently, the stewards believed him. There's been no investigation so no penalty. 
By the same token, Ham could have been penalized for throwing his steering wheel. Looks like they're allowing the drivers to act like humans. That's an aspect of NASCAR that would benefit F1.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> I was pretty worried about that when he parked his car, but he said they had a problem, and apparently, the stewards believed him. There's been no investigation so no penalty.
> By the same token, Ham could have been penalized for throwing his steering wheel. Looks like they're allowing the drivers to act like humans. That's an aspect of NASCAR that would benefit F1.


The wheel throwing incident would only be penalizable if he had failed to replace it, which wasn't the case. Also, Seb could have been penalized if he had left his thrown gloves on track...but then he's the flavor of the month, so it doesn't count.

Hate to be a nay sayer, but Zo's celebration IS NOT justifiable on thr merits...just like Schumi's explanation for stopping on track during qualifying at Monaco (years ago) was completely ingenuine.

P.S., if this were done anywhere other than in Spain and by a Spaniard, there would be blood.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> The wheel throwing incident would only be penalizable if he had failed to replace it, which wasn't the case. Also, Seb could have been penalized if he had left his thrown gloves on track...but then he's the flavor of the month, so it doesn't count.
> 
> Hate to be a nay sayer, but Zo's celebration IS NOT justifiable on thr merits...just like Schumi's explanation for stopping on track during qualifying at Monaco (years ago) was completely ingenuine.
> 
> *P.S., if this were done anywhere other than in Spain and by a Spaniard, there would be blood.*


Well, anywhere else except Monza...

As I said, I was worried about that, but there seems to have been no investigation, and no one in the press is even mentioning it, so it's pretty much a non-incident.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> Well, anywhere else except Monza...
> 
> As I said, I was worried about that, but there seems to have been no investigation, and no one in the press is even mentioning it, so it's pretty much a non-incident.


Oh, yes, Monza, too, of course.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Alonso drove a great race and is a great driver..... But I'll put my money on Vettle and RB's quick machine.

Here's talk of a London race http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100760


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Alonso drove a great race and is a great driver..... But I'll put my money on Vettle and RB's quick machine.
> 
> Here's talk of a London race http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100760


http://www.lgp2012.com/

Here's the site with the simulated lap of the proposed track. It looks pretty cool, if not all that different from Singapore. However, if it actually happens, I can't imagine that run through The Admirals Gate would be allowed. That looks like death waiting to happen.

Enjoy...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> http://www.lgp2012.com/
> 
> Here's the site with the simulated lap of the proposed track. It looks pretty cool, if not all that different from Singapore. However, if it actually happens, I can't imagine that run through The Admirals Gate would be allowed. That looks like death waiting to happen.
> 
> Enjoy...


Your liknk shows its by Santander but my link say Bernie is sponsoring it. ???:dunno:


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## FlyingLow78 (Jul 28, 2011)

Tickets to the F1 race in Austin are now available on F1.com! Lots of choices available, but no Paddock club options.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

FlyingLow78 said:


> Tickets to the F1 race in Austin are now available on F1.com! Lots of choices available, but no Paddock club options.


I live in DALLAS but I'll watch it from home saving close to $1000.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

FlyingLow78 said:


> Tickets to the F1 race in Austin are now available on F1.com! Lots of choices available, but no Paddock club options.


I've seen that they already had to add two more grandstands because the first ticket offering sold out so fast.



franka said:


> I live in DALLAS but I'll watch it from home saving close to $1000.


Gotta go... TV just doesn't do it justice.



franka said:


> Your liknk shows its by Santander but my link say Bernie is sponsoring it. ???:dunno:


I think Santander sponsored the video simulation and some early track planning. I've seen in the press where Bernie has said he'll put up money if needed to be sure the race happens (yeah, right...Bernie parting with money). Either way, there's no actual contract for a race, so there is no real race sponsor yet.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Gotta go... TV just doesn't do it justice.


> I know watacha mean. I've been to about 5 or 6 live gps. If I had never been to a live gp then I would go to the Austin race.
> 
> But if someone set me up with box seats and a great hotel thru the 4 day weekend, checking out on Monday noon, then I would have to go. :rofl:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Jeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, doesn't anyone watch the races anymore?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Jeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, doesn't anyone watch the races anymore?


I haven't missed more than three or four in the last ten years or so.

That was certainly an interesting weekend. Alonso got very lucky to grab pole. If they hadn't red flagged Q2, he would have been out. Then the conditions negated the Red Bull speed advantage, and his skills did the rest.

Clearly, the Red Bull is still the fastest car , but Ferrari is closing in, and so is Renault. Although I think Renault will lose ground as the big three start developing (read :spending) more. I just don't think Renault has the resources.

What happened To Macca ? They certainly seemed to have lost the plot. Maybe they gambled too heavily on a wet setup, but they just made no ground. There was a funny comment from Ham about how he couldn't understand how he could be in the lead, and battling with Alonso (a great duel) and then finish 8th. Guess he forgot that everyone else had already pitted.

Anyway, Germany and Hungary back to back next, then no racing in August. Guess my GF will be happy that I don't need to schedule weekends around F1...


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Catch the film clip in this link......http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/4603/ken-block-recreates-the-magic-bullitt/


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Chatch the film clip in this link......http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/4603/ken-block-recreates-the-magic-bullitt/


What's this have to do with F1, Frank?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> What's this have to do with F1, Frank?


Excuse me sir if its not pure F1. Folks have been chatting about minimal use of this thread, so here go. You can always delete or turn it off or commit suicide if offended.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Dear Bedford,

This should meet your requirements... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101147


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Dear Bedford,
> 
> This should meet your requirements... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101147


 For sure.

But what is allowable with the second move, Charlie?


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

But what is allowable with the second move, Charlie?[/QUOTE]

GET YOUR NEWS HERE.... You should be on top of this if you are a die hard fan


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Go Red Bull..... They have been my favorite team after spending years listening the McLaren's promise to do better year and then next year. Those that have watch F! for many years should know what I'm saying. Lots of promises for 'next' year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101150

These where in Denni's days for you who knew F1 in that time frame. Lots'a of talk year after year.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Go Red Bull..... They have been my favorite team after spending years listening the McLaren's promise to do better year and then next year. Those that have watch F! for many years should know what I'm saying. Lots of promises for 'next' year.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101150
> 
> These where in Denni's days for you who knew F1 in that time frame. Lots'a of talk year after year.


I have no love lost for McLaren (the evil empire) but one thing I will say for them: I respect them, because like Ferrari, Williams and Sauber, they exist merely for racing. Redbull Racing may be on top now, but one day, just like all sponsors, they will decide they've gotten what they need out of F1, and move on. Meanwhile, as long as there is an F1 Championship, McLaren, along with Ferrari , Williams and Sauber will still be there.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> I have no love lost for McLaren (the evil empire) but one thing I will say for them: I respect them, because like Ferrari, Williams and Sauber, they exist merely for racing. Redbull Racing may be on top now, but one day, just like all sponsors, they will decide they've gotten what they need out of F1, and move on. Meanwhile, as long as there is an F1 Championship, McLaren, along with Ferrari , Williams and Sauber will still be there.


And all the time I thought Ferrari was the evil empire. Still think so.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> And all the time I thought Ferrari was the evil empire. Still think so.


How can Ferrari be the Evil Empire when McLaren works at The Death Star?


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> How can Ferrari be the Evil Empire when McLaren works at The Death Star?


I have no idea what that means.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Here is a link about 1 of 4 venues that are being considered for the London race.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101255


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> I have no idea what that means.


I saw an article a few years ago that referred to the McLaren Technology Center as The Death Star. That makes them The Evil Empire, no ?


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Here is a link about 1 of 4 venues that are being considered for the London race.
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101255


I'm betting it ends up a football stadium, not an F1 track.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> I saw an article a few years ago that referred to the McLaren Technology Center as The Death Star. That makes them The Evil Empire, no ?


One silly reference does not an evil empire make. If you have read past forums here and elsewhere in the F1 world I think you'll find a lot more people are convinced that the red car team is the truly evil one.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Oh yeah, it's always the next race......on and on

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101268


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> One silly reference does not an evil empire make. If you have read past forums here and elsewhere in the F1 world I think you'll find a lot more people are convinced that the red car team is the truly evil one.


LALALALALALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH.......

:angel::angel::angel:


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Uh oh, RBR currently under investigation before the start of the German GP for illegal engine mapping. Looks like we may have a new contender for the title "evil empire".
Personally, I'd like to see Alonso beat Vettel in a fair fight today, but if the Bulls take a penalty, I'm good with that too.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

So Alonso beat both Vettel and Button in a straight up fight. Not bad for a guy in the fourth fastest car on the grid. It's a good thing the lotus' don't qualify well because they'd be trouble if they did .

I think the penalty on Vettel was a bit harsh. Dropping him behind Button would have been fair, but I guess the 20 second penalty was the precedent. 

There's going to be a meeting tomorrow where they will probably "clarify" the engine mapping rule. I wonder if that will spell the end of RBR dominance? Apparently, they've been coming on strong since they started using it, but it seems to be clearly against the rules. 

So, another tight, exciting race, and another chance to watch a master at work. It's a huge difference from Australia, and now with a commanding lead, I believe.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Summer break...40 point lead...where's all the Vettel fans? It's been awfully quiet around these parts lately. 
Looks to me like Hamilton is the biggest threat for the second half. Redbull doesn't seem to have the speed or consistency, and I think the Lotus' are just too far back.


----------



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jonathan2263 said:


> Summer break...40 point lead...where's all the Vettel fans? It's been awfully quiet around these parts lately.
> Looks to me like Hamilton is the biggest threat for the second half. Redbull doesn't seem to have the speed or consistency, and I think the Lotus' are just too far back.


Well, now that FIA seems to have finally figured out why RB has been so dominant for the last 2 1/2 years, they're apparently reluctant to continue to cheat at the moment. I'd argue that they should relinquish their championships.

No doubt, Vettel is a good driver...but I've contended all along that he's not a great driver...despite all his points. He's all car, and if FIA looks closely at RB (as they should), I think they'll find that the car/team is tainted by lack of adherence to the regs. And now that he isn't winning every race, he's acting like such a cry baby.


----------



## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Well, now that FIA seems to have finally figured out why RB has been so dominant for the last 2 1/2 years, they're apparently reluctant to continue to cheat at the moment. I'd argue that they should relinquish their championships.
> 
> No doubt, Vettel is a good driver...but I've contended all along that he's not a great driver...despite all his points. He's all car, and if FIA looks closely at RB (as they should), I think they'll find that the car/team is tainted by lack of adherence to the regs. And now that he isn't winning every race, he's acting like such a cry baby.


Christian Horner said something I agree with to the affect of " there is no rule regarding the spirit of the rules. There is only what the rules actually say." I agree with this. It is every teams job, if they want to win, to exploit every loophole they can. The engine mapping fits this situation; even though the teams had agreed not to, RBR found a way to exploit the wording of the rule. Immoral maybe; illegal no. It's the same as Renault's Mass Damper in 03 and ferrari's flexi floor in 08; they found a loophole and forced the FiA to " clarify" the rule. 
Adjusting the ride height is a different situation. There is a very specific rule regarding not being allowed to change the ride height once the car is in parc ferme (start of qualifying). If they were indeed doing that, it's not creatively interpreting the rules, it's just plain cheating.

On the coverage of the German GP, Steve Matchett said he thought RBR might have changed their engine map before the race to avoid any suggestion of impropriety. Wouldn't that have been a violation of parc ferme regulations?

One thing is for certain, whether because they're being watched closely, or the other teams have caught up, RBR is not having it their way this year. I would agree that Vettel is a better than average driver who has been flattered by an excellent car. Similar to Damon Hill and Jaques Villeneuve.

I would think that of all the current drivers, only Alonso and Schumi in his prime could be where Alonso is with the F2012.


----------



## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> Well, now that FIA seems to have finally figured out why RB has been so dominant for the last 2 1/2 years, they're apparently reluctant to continue to cheat at the moment. I'd argue that they should relinquish their championships.
> 
> No doubt, Vettel is a good driver...but I've contended all along that he's not a great driver...despite all his points. He's all car, and if FIA looks closely at RB (as they should), I think they'll find that the car/team is tainted by lack of adherence to the regs. And now that he isn't winning every race, he's acting like such a cry baby.


That's BS thru and thru


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

More on Schumi FUs......he did it last week and again this weekend....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101635


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Christian Horner said something I agree with to the affect of " there is no rule regarding the spirit of the rules. There is only what the rules actually say." I agree with this. It is every teams job, if they want to win, to exploit every loophole they can. The engine mapping fits this situation; even though the teams had agreed not to, RBR found a way to exploit the wording of the rule. Immoral maybe; illegal no. It's the same as Renault's Mass Damper in 03 and ferrari's flexi floor in 08; they found a loophole and forced the FiA to " clarify" the rule.
> Adjusting the ride height is a different situation. There is a very specific rule regarding not being allowed to change the ride height once the car is in parc ferme (start of qualifying). If they were indeed doing that, it's not creatively interpreting the rules, it's just plain cheating.
> 
> On the coverage of the German GP, Steve Matchett said he thought RBR might have changed their engine map before the race to avoid any suggestion of impropriety. Wouldn't that have been a violation of parc ferme regulations?
> ...


Agreed +1


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> That's BS thru and thru


Back at ya, Frank.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

Have you guys seen these yet ? This one is the third in the series. They're actually kind of funny.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> That's BS thru and thru


Which part ? I don't think there's anything that can be proven or done about past transgressions, such as giving back or vacating previous wins, but the rest of it seems spot on to me.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Which part ? I don't think there's anything that can be proven or done about past transgressions, such as giving back or vacating previous wins, but the rest of it seems spot on to me.


Read post 224


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Read post 224


Once again, Frank, you contradict yourself. You agreed with Jonathan who agreed with me, but then you said my post was all wrong. What gives?


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

berford said:


> Once again, Frank, you contradict yourself. You agreed with Jonathan who agreed with me, but then you said my post was all wrong. What gives?


More BS, just save it for your friends. Read the posts, in their proper sequence, and think about each of them, and you should understand.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Is seems that Ferrari are also running an adjustable ride ht system from inside their car

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101690


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Is seems that Ferrari are also running an adjustable ride ht system from inside their car
> 
> http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101690


Helmet Marko has been very angry in the press lately accusing the other teams of being copycats and jealous. (I'm sure that's a bit true) This sounds to me like he's just trying to deflect attention. The two recent issues with RBR were looked into and changed by the FIA. The accusations against Ferrari seem unfounded.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> The accusations against Ferrari seem unfounded.


How can you know from here in the USA?


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> How can you know from here in the USA?


Hahahahaha...

There's been no FIA investigation and no more mention of it in the press so it looks like it really was Marko just mouthing off and maybe trying to deflect some attention.

Besides, now that NJ is getting its own GP, that makes me an expert.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> Besides, now that NJ is getting its own GP, that makes me an expert.


Texas, where I live, got their GP first.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

franka said:


> Texas, where I live, got their GP first.


So you'll know about F1 this coming November. I have to wait until June before I know anything.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

jonathan2263 said:


> So you'll know about F1 this coming November. I have to wait until June before I know anything.


Not for you but maybe for others in this thread. :rofl:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

franka said:


> Not for you but maybe for others in this thread. :rofl:


Perhaps Jonathan intended to attach a smiley or a j/k.


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## jonathan2263 (Dec 26, 2008)

berford said:


> Perhaps Jonathan intended to attach a smiley or a j/k.


Smileys not readily available when posting from an iPhone, but yeah, j/k.
Also, our absent friend needed to try much harder if he was looking to get a rise out of me. Being from NJ is a badge of honor for me.


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## franka (Jan 23, 2006)

Here in RB's own words is why the are not dominating this year. The short of it is, the rules that took away hot and cold air blowing and flexible wings.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101810

Despite this Force India has been able to get some hot blowning to work but not as effectively as last year.


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