# Is 1K over ED invoice possible?



## flowbmw (Aug 31, 2006)

drkumar said:


> adrian, or someone, could you please explain the term "mini?" thanks.


a "Mini" is the least amount of commission that a salesperson is going to make regardless of whether the store makes "0" profit or even if they lose money on a deal.

I don't want to put words in Adrian's mouth, but I think he was inferring that you shouldn't expect a salesperson who is fluent in making sure you get a postive ED experience to work for a mini commission. We've seen other examples on here of people who got a "smoking" deal on a car, then they ended up with a salesperson who either got the order wrong, never followed up, quit in the middle of the process, or couldn't figure out something along the way.

Ed


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## armoredsaint (Apr 16, 2006)

adrian's bmw said:


> Why is $500 the new $1,000 over value? Seriously. I'm not doing that. I seriously don't other big ED hitters like Irv is doing that. Phillipe? Nahh. Jim Mannheimer, ehh, maybe for Beewang, but no one else. Ricki. Nope. Jim at New Motors, nope. All Bimmerfest supporting sponsors. These guys can correct me if I'm wrong.:dunno: I don't think it has anything to do with being insulted as it does simply being fair.
> 
> Or is that you wanna brag and thump your chest that you got $500 over and rub it in everybody's noses here and make everyone feel like they're getting ripped off at $1k and make Bimmerfest sponsors look like thieves for charging $1k or more over ED invoice? I call :bs: There was a time when Bee would come on here so fast and police this price pissing contest. I don't like it as a sponsor, but maybe it is what it is.
> 
> The way I see it, at $500, for the dealership to pay the CA a mini of what- $200-$250, right? Detail and gas the car - lets say $200, to net $50 bucks on a $30k + car?  Think about it.  That's sad. Oh, and many of you with recessionitis can say whoa is me, it's the "bad economy", I shouldn't pay more than that, boohoo? But when the economy is good, we can start charging ED MSRP?? $1,500 over, $2,000 over?


+1

i'm in medical sales and when i ordered my 335 this week, i wanted to be fair to my dealer since they treated me very well over the years and of course i know they needed to make money too.


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## fizzman (Mar 19, 2009)

flowbmw said:


> I don't see it that way, but that's why I spelled it out so clearly. Everyone has a doc fee, but not everyone is full disclosure. In the car industry, the "selling price" is always defined before taxes, tags, and fees.
> 
> I run F&I here sometimes, and I promise that even on employee deals, the salespeople, the sales managers, and the General sales managers all pay the same doc. fees that the customer does, they're just a fact of life here.
> 
> Ed


Not meaning to get Adrian more upset than he is, but when people discuss pricing information here, think about it like a game of dice.. no one really knows what 'fair' price is. there are dealers who will rip paying customers off without a second's hesitation and then there are the dealers who work for their commission. As a paying customer, if i have to deal with different 'invoice' prices, bogus fees, crazy math for a $30K+ purchase. So yes i would be playing hardball with the dealer in an environment where every dollar counts. if a dealer cries about food i'm taking away from his kids, then him ripping me off also means that he's taking food from my kids!.


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## CrazyBimmer (Jul 1, 2002)

ibrennan said:


> sorry, i didn't mean to hurt a sponsor, just sharing information, i think i'm going to stay out of this section of the forum now


For me, i apperciate knowing what others are able to get in terms of pricing. So thank you for posting.

It seems like $500 over is doable if you can find someone willing to agree to that.

Personally I offered my dealer $1k over because I knew i was a pain in the ass. Figured that was a cheap price to put up with me. :rofl:

But really my dealer has treated me well in the past so i had no issue paying 1k over, which even in itself is a fantastic deal. IMO


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## Crubin23 (Mar 19, 2007)

Can someone please explain to me how BMW select rates are calculated.. I am looking at a328 vert with 0.9% Interest.. I assume you have to know the residual on it, so if anyone can help with that info I would appreciate it...


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## Crubin23 (Mar 19, 2007)

Deleted


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## Lobaeux (Feb 1, 2009)

Honestly, and I don't mean to make anyone mad here, but the old adage is always true:

"You get what you paid for"

Meaning, you want the dealer to take no profit, you'll get no profit service. Not saying the dealer is going to stiff you in other areas, or offer lackluster service, but just like anything, you pay for the service you are receiving. I'm no advocating NOT getting the best deal, I'm just saying, a dealer/CA makes a profit off a vehicle, he/she is going to offer better service, whether they consciously do it or not, it's bound to happen. If they do the work, they definitely deserve the $1000 profit.

Poor case in point though, I just closed on a house I sold in Texas, the real estate fees were $9000, and I had to call to make sure that closing went okay, I had to call to make sure the new owners got keys, power switched over, utilities switched over, I had to call to get wiring instructions for payout. Hmmm, maybe you don't get what you paid for.


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## SJAPoc (Apr 14, 2007)

I most certainly got what I paid for when I purchased my car through Adrian. An superbly professional car buying experience for a very fair price. Could I have purchased it $100 cheaper... Perhaps :dunno: But why bother? If you can afford a BMW what difference does it make when the the level of service and experience the board sponsors provide for ED purchases (in addition to the selfless knowledge they share on Bimmerfest) is worth far more than that! $1,000 over invoice... ED Invoice that is, is already a fantastic deal. Go with the best, get your fair price and you will not regret it! :thumbup:

My $0.02 worth :bigpimp:


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## DonnaBlackson (May 14, 2006)

i spent 3hrs with desimmone in Mt laurel and they didnt know what they were doing. I had all of my numbers and they lied about certain things and i caught them every time. They tried to even say that the ED MSRP was used in the lease calculation! and actually tried to pass that lie on to me, maybe because i am a single woman trying to make this deal, anyway, i told them pretty much to go to hell and i left......well, i didnt say it that way, i said I was not comfortable dealing with a dealership that didnt know what they were doing. Thats what i said...


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## DonnaBlackson (May 14, 2006)

Oh, they tried to add Maco charges and i said they dont apply to ED cars, and the guy was like " Oh, ok, i'll take that off then". Total rip off artists there, will never go there to look for a car again, ever.


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

DonnaBlackson said:


> i spent 3hrs with desimmone in Mt laurel and they didnt know what they were doing. I had all of my numbers and they lied about certain things and i caught them every time. They tried to even say that the ED MSRP was used in the lease calculation! and actually tried to pass that lie on to me, maybe because i am a single woman trying to make this deal, anyway, i told them pretty much to go to hell and i left......well, i didnt say it that way, i said I was not comfortable dealing with a dealership that didnt know what they were doing. Thats what i said...





DonnaBlackson said:


> Oh, they tried to add Maco charges and i said they dont apply to ED cars, and the guy was like " Oh, ok, i'll take that off then". Total rip off artists there, will never go there to look for a car again, ever.


And this is the dealership ibrennan is shilling.  Mkay. So he prolly paid $500 plus mop and glow.:tsk:


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

SJAPoc said:


> I most certainly got what I paid for when I purchased my car through Adrian. An superbly professional car buying experience for a very fair price. Could I have purchased it $100 cheaper... Perhaps :dunno: But why bother? If you can afford a BMW what difference does it make when the the level of service and experience the board sponsors provide for ED purchases (in addition to the selfless knowledge they share on Bimmerfest) is worth far more than that! $1,000 over invoice... ED Invoice that is, is already a fantastic deal. Go with the best, get your fair price and you will not regret it! :thumbup:
> 
> My $0.02 worth :bigpimp:


:bow::bow::bow::hi:


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## AggieKnight (Dec 26, 2008)

Not a dealer, never used Adrian or another sponsor, but my 2 cents...

You can look at a car purchase as a single transaction or a relationship. If you look at it as a single transaction, definitely go as low as you can. Cuttem to the bone, find a dealer willing to do $500 of invoice. But you get what you paid for - your CA made almost no money, so don't go crying to them for help when you have a problem. 

If you look at the car purchase as a relationship, then negotiating a fair profit is reasonable. Consider how much time you are consuming of the dealership and CA's time, find something reasonable. Unfortunately this is a two way street - you have to find a CA that is as interested in the relationship...pretty hard in this day and age though it sounds like a lot of the sponsors here are of the relationship type. If you have a relationship, then it is mutually beneficial for both parties to take care of the other - so when you have problems, the CA is going to be there for you, work with you and do their best to take care of you. From purusing this forum, it sounds like $1k-$1500 is considered reasonable.

The last thing I want to point out is that if you are leasing your bimmer (as 85% of BMWs are financed from what I hear), then that extra $500-$1k really isn't costing you that...its costing you 40%-ish of that, broken up over 3 years, so $5-10 a month (quick math, don't hate on me). So really, we are talking 2-3 starbucks cups a coffee a month to build a relationship. If my business relationships were as cheap to manage, my life would be ton easier. ;-)


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## SJAPoc (Apr 14, 2007)

AggieKnight said:


> If my business relationships were as cheap to manage, my life would be ton easier. ;-)


I second that!


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## SJAPoc (Apr 14, 2007)

adrian's bmw said:


> :bow::bow::bow::hi:


You deserve it :thumbup:


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## JW_BMW (Oct 3, 2007)

Here is what I think...maybe it's just the market I work in that we cut throat like there is no tomorrow. The bottom line is the buyer will pay what the market will bear. 

500 over invoice is a mini deal...1K over invoice is a mini deal...either way it's a mini deal....so why would I fight my customer for the extra nickel? I will get that nickel back from somewhere else. maybe that extra nickel they saved will help them pay for the extended warranty...a win win for my FI team. Sure there will be no CSI and we don't get paid on the deal till 6 months later. Of course it's a lot of hassle, constant changes and paperwork. But you know what I don't look at it as a nothing deal with no benefits. I look at it as a future referral base. A mini deal today may be the one deal i will need to hit my unit bonus 4 months from now. 

To all the CAs...how many times have we walked somebody and days later we wished we did the deal. :dunno: I will take all the minis off your hands...you better be sure. And they will be treated as VIPs along the way. I assure you they will never buy from anybody else as long as they stay with BMW. It is the nature of our business. At the end of the year all the numbers will balance out. 

In closing...this is not to say everybody should be calling their CAs and demanding 500 over or else... The price is set by the market you are in...whatever that price may be.


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## drkumar (Jan 1, 2009)

with all the two cents here, we may work our way out of the recession.

personally, i think the initial interaction with the CA should be negotiated as far down as possible (buyer's perspective) and to a level that the CA is comfortable with. no CA is forced into a deal (i hope not) and they always have the right to simply say no. so as a buyer/leaser, i want $500 over invoice. but if that CA makes it a wonderful experience, and i realize it was a great interaction and relationship, the next time around i have no problem going 1.5 or 2k over invoice. nor do i have any issues referring anyone and everyone to that same CA. i'm not saying 500 is the new going rate. that has to be determined by a multitude of factors. to each his/her own.


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## ibrennan (Apr 7, 2009)

DonnaBlackson said:


> i spent 3hrs with desimmone in Mt laurel and they didnt know what they were doing. I had all of my numbers and they lied about certain things and i caught them every time. They tried to even say that the ED MSRP was used in the lease calculation! and actually tried to pass that lie on to me, maybe because i am a single woman trying to make this deal, anyway, i told them pretty much to go to hell and i left......well, i didnt say it that way, i said I was not comfortable dealing with a dealership that didnt know what they were doing. Thats what i said...


I will be honest and say I did have similar things happen to me when I bought my car there. They had a lot of their numbers off, but since I knew what the numbers should be I caught them every time and showed them my calculations and everything was ok.


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## bmwKbiker (Nov 5, 2006)

AggieKnight said:


> Not a dealer, never used Adrian or another sponsor, but my 2 cents...
> 
> The last thing I want to point out is that if you are leasing your bimmer (as 85% of BMWs are financed from what I hear), then that extra $500-$1k really isn't costing you that...its *costing you 40%-ish of that*, broken up over 3 years, so $5-10 a month (quick math, don't hate on me). So really, we are talking 2-3 starbucks cups a coffee a month to build a relationship. If my business relationships were as cheap to manage, my life would be ton easier. ;-)


No its *100%-ish of that*, the cap cost increases but the residual doesn't change so it drops directly to the depreciation portion of the lease payment. 
It is actually slightly greater than 100% because you get to also pay a finance charge on the additional money.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

bmwKbiker said:


> No its *100%-ish of that*, the cap cost increases but *the residual doesn't change* so it drops directly to the depreciation portion of the lease payment.
> It is actually slightly greater than 100% because you get to also pay a finance charge on the additional money.


Why doesn't the residual change?


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

flowbmw said:


> Pylt, I'm all about process improvement, but you need to go back and reread Adrian's posts and some of the others. This isn't simple data entry, and if you don't do a significant amount of babysitting on these ED deals, and something does go wrong, there will be a crucifiction.  With all the privacy/ red flag rules in place now, I promise that 30 minutes in the F&I process is on the low side now.
> 
> I apologize if this is coming off as a bad attitude, because that isn't my intent. I've got tons of repeat and referral business, and great CSI, so I think that I'm pretty good at what I do. This is difficult to convey in an online environment, that I understand. The fact is that buying a Toyota/ Honda/ Chevy is different than buying a BMW. Its a totally different culture and process, I promise. Toyota / Honda distribution networks are set up to reward dealers who do volume, regardless of profit. BMW doesn't. There is simply no financial incentive to do invoice deals without profit somewhere else in the transaction.
> 
> ...


Hi Ed,

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your service to the board, along with that of the other sponsors as well.

You wrote:

"This isn't simple data entry, and if you don't do a significant amount of babysitting on these ED deals, and something does go wrong, there will be a [crucifixion]."

Why in heaven's name is "a significant amount of babysitting" required?!?

It sounds like the problem has been found. As someone who has done two ED's, the previous poster's comments about "data entry" seem spot on: I go through the brochure (or build a car on line) and select my desired options, select a delivery date, bring my passport and a check, and we wait for letters from BMW advising of my production status and the like.

Where and why is "a significant amount of babysitting" required? I don't get it.

It just sounds like a win-win for both the dealership and the buyer if you can cut the time-wasting "babysitting" out of the ED process. Suggestion: If it's internal to your dealership, kill the babysitting: get the order in, confirm it, and be done with it. If it's external (BMW NA, BMW AG) you should find out how the other dealers are getting their ED's without all the hand-holding.

Again, we ARE appreciative of your inputs to the forum, but I am just having trouble connecting the dots on what SHOULD be a simple and easy ED process.

Thanks!


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

JSpira said:


> I'm assuming he means babysitting with the customer. A standard order for U.S. delivery is much more straight forward. The CA won't get calls such as: "did the truck pick it up from Harms"?; "is it at the port in Bremerhaven?"; "is it on the vessel?"; "when is the vessel due in?"; "did it clear customs yet?"; "why is customs taking so long?"; "why is the VDC taking so long?"; etc.


If that's what he means by "babysitting the order" then that's why I recommended two tiers of ED pricing for BMW dealers:

Plan B is for repeat buyers who don't need to have the hand holding/babysitting. They get ED invoice or ED + $500 deals. They neither expect nor get anything beyond data entry and a confirmation of the delivery date and the specs on the car they are buying.

Plan A is for the newbies who will want or need the extra time and attention. They pay more.

On the other hand, if "babysitting the order" means following up with BMW ED's office in NJ every few days, then his dealership has a problem . . . .


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## flowbmw (Aug 31, 2006)

shoot, it takes a half hour sometimes just waiting to log into DCS just to make sure all the car's are still there and that the orders didn't disappear.



But seriously, nobody will do a two-tier order/ delivery system. I spend just as much time following up on/ with the customers that pay $1000 over invoice as those that pay more. If you bought a car from me and had a problem, and I said "sorry you only paid invoice for your car, figure it out yourself", how do you think that would come across on the 'fest the next day?



Ed


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*Well, I think we found the problem*



flowbmw said:


> shoot, it takes a half hour sometimes just waiting to log into DCS just to make sure all the car's are still there and that the orders didn't disappear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Who would have thought that BMW IT department could be so incompetent as to drive sales away? Let's examine this quote:

"shoot, it takes a half hour sometimes just waiting to log into DCS just to make sure all the car's are still there and that the orders didn't disappear."

The fact that dealership personnel have to put up with this sort of stupidity is beyond belief. What a complete waste of time . . . and time is money.

Looks like BMW IT needs some new blood: Dealers, why not send this up the chain as I doubt that the folks that should (and need) to know this sort of IT BS is going on are in the loop.

In the interim, when it's time (and as a third-time ED buyer), I'll be looking for the maximum value.

Thanks, again, for all your inputs.

p.s. This sort of thing is called Process Improvement or Continuous Improvement (Google Toyota Way, Deming, Quality Process, for more details).

p.p.s. Lastly, the last thing I would need or want is for a CA to spend time "following up" after I've placed my order. I'm not into wasting time, mine or his. Either the order is in, or it's not. Either the situation is nominal, or it's not. Just alert me to non-standard situations: delays, options problems, etc. Otherwise, I place the order, write you a check, wait, and then pick up my car. Hey guys, it's not rocket science here . . . .


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## flowbmw (Aug 31, 2006)

If you don't follow up and oversee the process, how are you going to know if a "non-standard" situation comes up?



Ed


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

flowbmw said:


> If you don't follow up and oversee the process, how are you going to know if a "non-standard" situation comes up?
> 
> 
> 
> Ed


The system triggers an alert (push) when a non-standard situation comes up. The alert should be generated as close to the problem as possible. Also, resolution should be done as close to the problem as possible. Only positions that need to know / can work to resolve the problem or are affected by it should be alerted.
In this case a CA has just nothing to oversee as everything is on track unless an alert is triggered indicating a problem that needs to be brought to CA's / customer's attention. Over sight / following up without alert is considered waste and has to be minimized.

I am not saying BMW is 100% there, but they are not that far off.


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

pylt said:


> If that's what he means by "babysitting the order" then that's why I recommended two tiers of ED pricing for BMW dealers:
> 
> Plan B is for repeat buyers who don't need to have the hand holding/babysitting. They get ED invoice or ED + $500 deals. They neither expect nor get anything beyond data entry and a confirmation of the delivery date and the specs on the car they are buying.
> 
> ...


I'm curious, would you apply this same principle to other businesses and products? :dunno:

I will say this... I find it funny how a _few_ of you feel, shall we say, *entitled* to this magical value of *$500* over invoice. What I *never, ever* hear is anyone being thankful that these ED cars come out of ED allocation in order for some centers and CA's to even offer sale values in the range that's been discussed in this thread.

Interestingly, there's all kinds of varying degrees of customer care and client needs always vary. Some are hands off and others are high maintenance. I personally don't think that the level of maintenance should have a bearing on a CA's commitment to serving that client. But a few CA's may not be as motivated to work as hard or provide the level of comm. and service when they're making a mini or taking a thin deal. To me, I'm putting in the same hours day to day and doing the little things to take care of the big things. I have no assistants, no helpers, no delivery specialists. That's my choice and I like it that way. I'll treat a newbie the same way I treat an ED veteran. Why should a newbie be sold short on service and value?  :nono: Ironically, it's the newbies who sometimes want the _cheapest_ price and the ED veterans that are more accomodating to be fair and reasonable. Interesting how that works, isn't it?

What's not your choice is how we do business, but who you do business with and the way you go about it. If you do your best every time, a commission is a commission and you'll be rewarded accordingly, but oftentimes, it's not about the money, it's about serving the client. The money will take care of itself. So for all those $500 deals, someone else is paying more to offset that average. That is the truth.


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## New Motors (Mar 24, 2008)

+100

_What's not your choice is how we do business, but who you do business with and the way you go about it. If you do your best every time, a commission is a commission and you'll be rewarded accordingly, but oftentimes, it's not about the money, it's about serving the client. The money will take care of itself. So for all those $500 deals, someone else is paying more to offset that average. That is the truth._
*With that the Fat Lady can start singing!*


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## Jake C (Nov 27, 2007)

adrian's bmw said:


> I will say this... I find it funny how a _few_ of you feel, shall we say, *entitled* to this magical value of *$500* over invoice. What I *never, ever* hear is anyone being thankful that these ED cars come out of ED allocation in order for some centers and CA's to even offer sale values in the range that's been discussed in this thread.
> 
> Interestingly, there's all kinds of varying degrees of customer care and client needs always vary. Some are hands off and others are high maintenance.


I'm high maintenance. :angel: but at the same time I am very very thankful for all the CA's that take their time to come on here and share the information that they have. BMW does not force them to come online and share this info. Granted they are doing it for sales and profit but who does not want to make money? Second I am very thankful for BMW for allowing us consumers to participate in a European Delivery Program. Last I checked the normal public can't buy a GT-R and run around the autobahn at Top Speed. Unless maybe you are wealthy or have some connections I don't think you can buy a ZR-1 and run it around GM's test track. Can you? Yes again I know it's a marketing angle for BMW and they make plenty of money off of it but again who , especially in this economy, is working for free?

Peace, Love and Cold Beer,

- J


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## BMWofBloomfield (Nov 7, 2008)

Here is some food for thought. Carpet floor mats are approximately $100 (they only come free in 5/6/7 models). A full tank of gas is approximately $50. A detail for delivery is approximately $100. A salesperson's minimum commission is anywhere from $100-$200. Add those figures up and you'll see why you're barking up the wrong tree negotiating for $500 over cost on ED. There is NO PROFIT AT ALL for the dealer center unless the consumer pays a separate fee for the floor mats and/or a prep fee that will take of the gas/detail cost.


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

BMWofBloomfield said:


> Here is some food for thought. Carpet floor mats are approximately $100 (they only come free in 5/6/7 models). A full tank of gas is approximately $50. A detail for delivery is approximately $100. A salesperson's minimum commission is anywhere from $100-$200. Add those figures up and you'll see why you're barking up the wrong tree negotiating for $500 over cost on ED. There is NO PROFIT AT ALL for the dealer center unless the consumer pays a separate fee for the floor mats and/or a prep fee that will take of the gas/detail cost.


Both of my ED's (3 series) came with mats when I picked them up in Munich. Both also came with a full tank of gas.

(Maybe the folks paying the $1k over ED invoice can't pump their own gas?)

Seriously, at the end of the day the other poster seems correct: it's $1,000/hour for data entry. For many of us that are repeat ED'ers, we'd rather get a lot less "service" and a lot more savings.

I recommend a two-tier price structure for ED buyers; try it, you might like the results . . . .

Again, no disrespect intended but it's time for a new paradigm and the dealers and CA's that get it will reap the rewards.


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## flowbmw (Aug 31, 2006)

No disrespect intended, again, but how hard is it to figure out that an ED deal at invoice or $500 over is a net LOSER for the dealership? Two tiers won't work either, sorry. 

All the repeat and referral business in the world won't add to the bottom line if there is no profit in any of them. I like to joke with that other managers when we take a loser deal on a car that we'll make it up in volume, which is exactly what you are suggesting. 

Ed


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

pylt said:


> I recommend a two-tier price structure for ED buyers; try it, you might like the results . . . .
> 
> Again, no disrespect intended but it's time for a new paradigm and the dealers and CA's that get it will reap the rewards.





flowbmw said:


> No disrespect intended, again, but how hard is it to figure out that an ED deal at invoice or $500 over is a net LOSER for the dealership? Two tiers won't work either, sorry.
> 
> All the repeat and referral business in the world won't add to the bottom line if there is no profit in any of them. I like to joke with that other managers when we take a loser deal on a car that we'll make it up in volume, which is exactly what you are suggesting.
> 
> Ed


Ed, is correct. ED is too low volume for BMW to waste their time trying to manage some kind of two tier pricing system. If I remember correctly fewer than 1,000 people a year do ED. 800 - 900 is the number that sticks in my mind.


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## clindc (Apr 30, 2009)

adrian's bmw said:


> What I *never, ever* hear is anyone being thankful that these ED cars come out of ED allocation in order for some centers and CA's to even offer sale values in the range that's been discussed in this thread.


When I first started the ED process I never considered how much effort it took on the CA's part. The amount of money you pay over invoice is worth all of the hours that they pour into making sure you get the car you want, all the calls at random hours, emails, etc... I am quite thankful that ED is even a possibility in the first place.:thumbup:


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

clindc said:


> When I first started the ED process I never considered how much effort it took on the CA's part. The amount of money you pay over invoice is worth all of the hours that they pour into making sure you get the car you want, all the calls at random hours, emails, etc... I am quite thankful that ED is even a possibility in the first place.:thumbup:


I can now officially take back saying "never, ever" now. :rofl:


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

Porsche, not a dumb car company, charges a substantial EXTRA amount for ED.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

tturedraider said:


> If I remember correctly fewer than 1,000 people a year do ED. 800 - 900 is the number that sticks in my mind.


You are only off by a factor of 4 :angel:, at least as of end of 2007. I don't have 2008 numbers in front of me but they were a bit lower than 2007.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

adrian's bmw said:


> I can now officially take back saying "never, ever" now. :rofl:


Actually the ,,never, ever`` wasn´t really valid when you wrote your post. I have expressed similar sentiments several times here.


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## SeaTown (Nov 9, 2006)

BMWofBloomfield said:


> Here is some food for thought. Carpet floor mats are approximately $100 (they only come free in 5/6/7 models). A full tank of gas is approximately $50. A detail for delivery is approximately $100. A salesperson's minimum commission is anywhere from $100-$200. Add those figures up and you'll see why you're barking up the wrong tree negotiating for $500 over cost on ED. There is NO PROFIT AT ALL for the dealer center unless the consumer pays a separate fee for the floor mats and/or a prep fee that will take of the gas/detail cost.


I'm not sure how much value you can attribute to the huge amount of liability the dealership opens themselves up to too....

As well as all the intangibles like running to the DMV, the sales porters time, F and I docs (those contracts are like $5 a pop and temp permits are $15  )... It all adds up.

$500 over invoice at best is a break even deal - so why bother?


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## BMWofBloomfield (Nov 7, 2008)

pylt said:


> Both of my ED's (3 series) came with mats when I picked them up in Munich. Both also came with a full tank of gas.


FYI, They don't arrive with a full tank of gas after their transatlantic trip. A full gas tank is on the dealer center's dime. Floor mats are invoiced separately to the parts department and afterwards added to the cost of the vehicle. Only 5/6/7 series have "free" carpet floor mats.


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