# What's so special about BMW?



## andyman (Aug 18, 2005)

I must first say, I am NOT a troll. I am a relatively new owner of a BMW 330ci with sport and premium packages. I bought the car with about 40k miles, and I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is. The car looks nice but does not perform or handle anywhere near other cars I was considering buying. I think I got sucked in the "prestige factor" and now think I made a mistake. What's so special about faux wood trim in a car that costs $45k new? I don't get it. The car only has 225HP and i could buy a Grand Prix GTP with 303 HP NEW for $28k or less. THAT car can drive in winter. I could buy a high performance muscle car (GTO, Mustang, etc.) with nearly 400HP and superior handling in the low $30k's new. Someone please explain to me what the big deal about a Bimmer is. The 330Ci I own seems cheaply built, is expensive to maintain ($80 oil/filter/lube) that HAS to be done at the dealership, and really not worth what people pay for these. I looked at M3's also, but thankfully before I spent that kind of money I wanted to see what a BMW really is. Maybe I just bought the wrong model (?)..

I'm not trying to be a downer for enthusiasts, but I'm just disappointed.


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## Vornado (Feb 20, 2006)

So go get a GM piecer and quit yer whinning.


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## andyman (Aug 18, 2005)

Well, yeah. I may save $20k and get a better car. I just won't have that "prestige factor", but I should have a better car. I'm no fan of GM in particular, but I must say if my experience is typical of BMW's, I'm no fan of them either. Anyone else disappointed or is a BMW a too expensive a mistake to admit?


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## M3Mike (Jan 22, 2006)

andyman said:


> I must first say, I am NOT a troll. I am a relatively new owner of a BMW 330ci with sport and premium packages. I bought the car with about 40k miles, and I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is. The car looks nice but does not perform or handle anywhere near other cars I was considering buying. I think I got sucked in the "prestige factor" and now think I made a mistake. What's so special about faux wood trim in a car that costs $45k new? I don't get it. The car only has 225HP and i could buy a Grand Prix GTP with 303 HP NEW for $28k or less. THAT car can drive in winter. I could buy a high performance muscle car (GTO, Mustang, etc.) with nearly 400HP and superior handling in the low $30k's new. Someone please explain to me what the big deal about a Bimmer is. The 330Ci I own seems cheaply built, is expensive to maintain ($80 oil/filter/lube) that HAS to be done at the dealership, and really not worth what people pay for these. I looked at M3's also, but thankfully before I spent that kind of money I wanted to see what a BMW really is. Maybe I just bought the wrong model (?)..
> 
> I'm not trying to be a downer for enthusiasts, but I'm just disappointed.


If you are looking for performance in terms of acceleration, I suggest an M series car afterall you get good looks and chew up the Mustangs and numerous other muscle cars. How many do 0-60 in 4.8 secs ? Then which vehicles get lost in the curves ?

In answer to your question though - what makes any car special ? you list cars that have zero appeal to me whatsoever :dunno:

I hope you work it out though !!


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## andyman (Aug 18, 2005)

Well then it was the right car for you. Congrats. I may have to test drive a few M3's. I may have bought the wrong model Bimmer. I'm not looking for teh name like every other yuppie, I want a fun to drive, FAST, performance vehicle. That's not the 3 series with "sport package". What IS the sport package, but a different stearing wheel, and essentailly trim and suspension changes. I think I'll look at the M3 some more. That car DOES look sharp.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

It's all about balance. I have a car that I can autocross or take to the track (if I could find the time mostly) and have fun, stick a roof rack on the top and carry a bike or two or maybe some lumber, load up with reasonably current electronic gadgets (which I have), drive quite comfortably on long trips across country, and get more than 30 miles per gallon at reasonably legal freeway speeds and generally speaking operates fairly efficiently.

Pontiac can't touch that.


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## andyman (Aug 18, 2005)

Which model is THAT? Sounds like what I need. 30 MPH???


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

we have a a ci and a 325i....i dont see how they are cheaply built.....how come your comparing your 330ci to a GTO???...hello ones a muscle car...oh and i have a trans am and i have also driven many cars and the little 3 series was one of my favs ...although the m5 and m3s i have driven were awesome ...i cant compare my v6 325i to my torquey lt1 trans am .... ...oh and i had my oil changed at walmart...didnt spend the 80 bucks ....if u want a car with balls then buy one ...my brother has a 97 gtp awesome car and has been very good to him runs a flat 14 ...the 3800 is a great motor .....but in all fairness everyone is different and all have different opinions ...good luck ...


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## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

If your looking for prestege go buy a Bentley. People that buy cars for prestege are brand buyers for me the prestege is an added bonus; I really don't care! And FYI- the wood trim is actually real on BMW's. How can you say that a BMW handles like any other car? Well test drive a Lexie GS to a Bimmer 5 and see who wins the handling and braking. Same can be said for a IS vs. a 3; Who will win? Hmmmmm I wonder. You are seriously trying to compare a GM 400ish HP car with a BMW 330ci? Build quality... Forget it. Go buy a GM please.  An an american car with superior handling than any german car period, forget about it. The Germans shine in this catagory.





-e60lover


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## jillyjellyroll (Oct 4, 2005)

andyman said:


> Someone please explain to me what the big deal about a Bimmer is. The 330Ci I own seems cheaply built, is expensive to maintain ($80 oil/filter/lube) that HAS to be done at the dealership, and really not worth what people pay for these.


An oil change does not HAVE to be done at a dealership...most people here do it themselves. I"m not sure where you got that idea from. :dunno:


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## andyman (Aug 18, 2005)

Pursuitof325i said:


> we have a a ci and a 325i....i dont see how they are cheaply built.....how come your comparing your 330ci to a GTO???...hello ones a muscle car...oh and i have a trans am and i have also driven many cars and the little 3 series was one of my favs ...although the m5 and m3s i have driven were awesome ...i cant compare my v6 325i to my torquey lt1 trans am .... ...oh and i had my oil changed at walmart...didnt spend the 80 bucks ....if u want a car with balls then buy one ...my brother has a 97 gtp awesome car and has been very good to him runs a flat 14 ...the 3800 is a great motor .....but in all fairness everyone is different and all have different opinions ...good luck ...


Walmart changes BMW oil/filter? I took my Bimmer to Lubpros and Midas and neither had the tool to get tool to get the filter cap off. I ended up at the dealer having to leave the car for hours and paying $80.

Myabe I'll try Walmart next time.


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

e60lover said:


> If your looking for prestege go buy a Bentley. People that buy cars for prestege are brand buyers for me the prestege is an added bonus; I really don't care! And FYI- the wood trim is actually real on BMW's. How can you say that a BMW handles like any other car? Well test drive a Lexie GS to a Bimmer 5 and see who wins the handling and braking. Same can be said for a IS vs. a 3; Who will win? Hmmmmm I wonder. You are seriously trying to compare a GM 400ish HP car with a BMW 330ci? Build quality... Forget it. Go buy a GM please.  An an american car with superior handling than any german car period, forget about it. The Germans shine in this catagory.
> 
> -e60lover


 in fact when the new is came out they said it still didnt compare to the 3 series....the bmw is a drivers car built by a country that loves to drive at high speeds with curvy roads ...the bmw handles better than my ta and i love her lol ...of course the ta will stomp my bmw ... ...but the c6 corvette now damn that handles nice  ..


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

andyman said:


> Walmart changes BMW oil/filter? I took my Bimmer to Lubpros and Midas and neither had the tool to get tool to get the filter cap off. I ended up at the dealer having to leave the car for hours and paying $80.
> 
> Myabe I'll try Walmart next time.


 yeah they did ...i did get a oil filter myself though ...but yes they changed it ...even got compliments on the car  ...they couldnt have been nicer and they gave me a discount cause i had my own oil filer


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## andyman (Aug 18, 2005)

e60lover said:


> If your looking for prestege go buy a Bentley. People that buy cars for prestege are brand buyers for me the prestege is an added bonus; I really don't care! And FYI- the wood trim is actually real on BMW's. How can you say that a BMW handles like any other car? Well test drive a Lexie GS to a Bimmer 5 and see who wins the handling and braking. Same can be said for a IS vs. a 3; Who will win? Hmmmmm I wonder. You are seriously trying to compare a GM 400ish HP car with a BMW 330ci? Build quality... Forget it. Go buy a GM please.  An an american car with superior handling than any german car period, forget about it. The Germans shine in this catagory.
> 
> -e60lover


The trim in the 330ci is NOT real. It's plastic OEM. I can't afford a Bentley and wouldn't want one. I did test dirve those Lexus models, and in MY opinion, they are better cars for handling and performance. The GS 430 is a V8 with 300HP, it outclasses any 3 series. Why didn't i buy the Lexus then? Well, I may next time. None were available in my area when I was looking. But my Bimmer just LOOKS cooler. It's a sporty looking car, but it's not what i was expecting/hoping for in terms of other factors.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

andyman said:


> Walmart changes BMW oil/filter? I took my Bimmer to Lubpros and Midas and neither had the tool to get tool to get the filter cap off. I ended up at the dealer having to leave the car for hours and paying $80.
> 
> Myabe I'll try Walmart next time.


Go to Sears and pick up a 36mm socket. If you have a torque wrench, I think the spec for the filter housing is 25NM. I use an oil extractor - search on that term for product recommendations - and do my own oil changes for $45 (7 qts of Mobil 1 @ $5/qt + $10 for a filter).


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## Vornado (Feb 20, 2006)

The controversy has started! let the :flame: begin! :eeps:


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

andyman said:


> The trim in the 330ci is NOT real. It's plastic OEM. I can't afford a Bentley and wouldn't want one. I did test dirve those Lexus models, and in MY opinion, they are better cars for handling and performance. The GS 430 is a V8 with 300HP, it outclasses any 3 series. Why didn't i buy the Lexus then? Well, I may next time. None were available in my area when I was looking. But my Bimmer just LOOKS cooler. It's a sporty looking car, but it's not what i was expecting/hoping for in terms of other factors.


 the gs is also 50000 grand...lol your not comparing cars that are similar ...and honestly since i have driven every lexus model and i work at a lexus dealership they dont drive better lol....the IS is cheap the rx is the pos od the lexus line...the GS is a ncie car granted its ugly .....


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

lol the jags type rs perform better than lexus ....and hual ass...and i have driven the jags too cause the jag and lexus stores are on the same lot i work at both


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## Kzang (Apr 12, 2006)

WOW a guy asks a question why the BMW is so special and all you guys do is dawg him.

Very nice.

How about explaining to him why BMW is so special instead without insults?
Thats all he wants.


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## GoHack (Jun 15, 2006)

andyman said:


> Walmart changes BMW oil/filter? I took my Bimmer to Lubpros and Midas and neither had the tool to get tool to get the filter cap off. I ended up at the dealer having to leave the car for hours and paying $80.
> 
> Myabe I'll try Walmart next time.


Anyone who brings his vehicle, especially a BMW, to a fast lube place or Walmart is nuts. :tsk:

You're definitely much better off w/an American car. Don't make it a Vette either. They require synthetic oil only, w/Mobil 1 recommended, so they aren't cheap to maintain either.

By the way, if you think $80 for an oil change is expensive for a BMW, then don't ever buy a Porsche. My Porsche use to cost me $250 for an oil change. Of course that was every 15,000 miles. The same goes w/the BMW. That's $80 every 15,000 miles. If you want to break that down into 3,000 mile oil changes, or $80/5, that breaks down to $16 per 3,000 mile oil change. That's pretty damn cheap, if you ask me, and for 100% synthetic oil, no less.

.


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## ktc (Jan 10, 2005)

I rented a Saturn SUV today to drive around Martha's Vineyard. After a few hours in that thing, I am convinced about the BMW "road feel"! I miss my car!


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

andyman said:


> I must first say, I am NOT a troll. I am a relatively new owner of a BMW 330ci with sport and premium packages. I bought the car with about 40k miles, and I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is. The car looks nice but does not perform or handle anywhere near other cars I was considering buying. I think I got sucked in the "prestige factor" and now think I made a mistake. What's so special about faux wood trim in a car that costs $45k new? I don't get it. The car only has 225HP and i could buy a Grand Prix GTP with 303 HP NEW for $28k or less. THAT car can drive in winter. I could buy a high performance muscle car (GTO, Mustang, etc.) with nearly 400HP and superior handling in the low $30k's new. Someone please explain to me what the big deal about a Bimmer is. The 330Ci I own seems cheaply built, is expensive to maintain ($80 oil/filter/lube) that HAS to be done at the dealership, and really not worth what people pay for these. I looked at M3's also, but thankfully before I spent that kind of money I wanted to see what a BMW really is. Maybe I just bought the wrong model (?)..
> 
> I'm not trying to be a downer for enthusiasts, but I'm just disappointed.


Frankly I think you made excellent points. Folks pay a premium for the BMW name however I don't think the value proposition is always there. BMW's are well balanced cars, great brakes, steering, engines, etc. However, I can't ignore the plethora of people that lease the BMW for fear of being stuck with huge maintenance costs. That says a lot about a car brand.

I will say this, I am on my 5th bimmer. I find BMW's overall to be a well balanced joy to drive. However, I do not think they are worth what we pay for them. However, I don't think a Lexus/Toyota SC430 convertible is worth the money they are asking for them either.

Premium cars command a premium price. A lot of technology went into your 3 series that you have yet to begin to realize.

A Mustang is a great car, with lots of horsepower. But close observation will yield many shortcomings of a typical mass produced Ford or Chevy. Seats, brakes, steering, suspension, engine refinement are all noticibly different as are the quality of the interiors.

If lots of horsepower at a cheap price is your main concern, the Mustang, Camaro, Subarau's, are excellent deals.

But as many on the biimmerfest board know, at the end of the day, the 0-60 times does not matter much to us. It is the overall driving experience and the confidence one has when they drive a BMW. They know they are in one of the most refined and safest cars on the road.

We pay a price to drive car from a manufacturer who is constantly pushing the technology envelope. More bug and glitches than say a Honda. BMW is a company that designs and builds one brand name worlwide and does not have the luxury of selling Fords/Mercury's/Lincolns on a whim.

I remember when the Lincoln was a special car to own and now they can be had for the price of a Ford minivan. Do you think a Lincoln for $30k has the same technology in it as a BMW 5 series? Of course not, but there is a $20k difference. I find it odd that a loaded Honda Accord costs more than a Lincoln.

Anyway that is my take. 

P.S. The wood in BMW's is real. It is laminated on a backing and has heavy gloss coating to reduce splintering in car wrecks.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

andyman said:


> The trim in the 330ci is NOT real. It's plastic OEM.


If you are going to go down this road, please stick to facts. You bring up some points worthy of discussion - why dilute them completely with making claims which are completely false.

BMW only uses real wood. End of story.


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## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

Jspira said:


> If you are going to go down this road, please stick to facts. You bring up some points worthy of discussion - why dilute them completely with making claims which are completely false.
> 
> BMW only uses real wood. End of story.


:stupid: Real wood, with a thick coat of plastic coating.


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## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

Pursuitof325i said:


> the gs is also 50000 grand...lol your not comparing cars that are similar ...and honestly since i have driven every lexus model and i work at a lexus dealership they dont drive better lol....the IS is cheap the rx is the pos od the lexus line...the GS is a ncie car granted its ugly .....


Exactly, If you recall, I said the GS vs. the BMW 5 series. And plus the GS430 compares to the 550i at the moment anyway. The 330ci is in a whole diffrent class of cars; For example the Lexus IS is better compatition. Its like $30,000-$40,000 compared to $50,000-$60,000; see, a whole diffrent class.

Sorry for everyone flaming you, but please buy a car that will make you happy an post GOOD comments about your car. Thanks.

-e60lover :thumbup:


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

It sounds to me like BMW is not the car for you.

As was stated earlier, BMWs are drivers' cars. I have to disagree strongly with you about the GTO or Mustang handling better than the 3. One of the things that makes the 3 superior is control. BMWs are designed to give excellent feedback to the driver and response to his or her inputs. The "Big 3" have never achieved that goal near the level of the Germans. The 3 is like nothing I have ever driven before or since.

And you can't compare the performance of a rear-wheel drive car and a front-wheel drive car. Rear-wheel drive is the only drive setup for performance. i.e., you don't see any race cars or any other high performance cars using front-wheel drive.

As to power, someone said, "BMW horses are stronger than other horses." I think that's true. BMWs are not about raw horsepower for straightline acceration. BMWs are about handling while driving fast in many conditions. Not just shooting down a straight line. That's why the new Lexus IS is not coming close to BMW in terms of "driving fun", "feeling contected to the car".

BMW has been using real wood for a number of years. In any case, even if a car maker uses real wood, it is only a very, very thin veneer covering a base (probably plastic) and then heavily coated with polyurethane. I'm not discounting the look. It definitely looks good.

So, it seems to me, at least, that you are just not the "core level" auto/driving enthusiast who can really appreciate BMWs and what is their mission - great driving.


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## MysticBlue (Jun 20, 2003)

"I could buy a high performance muscle car (GTO, Mustang, etc.) with nearly 400HP and superior handling"
If you truly believe that either of these cars has superior handling, then you don't get it, never will, and will be happier with a GM/Ford product.


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## ATLBMW (Jun 6, 2006)

This si the lamest thread AI have sean on here so far...

Dude had a chance to test drive his BMW before he baught it .... 
He did so and chose to by the beamer... Why? Cause it struck him as a great car worth buying... Then he changed his mind???? 
He needs to trade it in for an american car ... simple as that.


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## davesnothear (Jun 30, 2006)

Andyman- As a fan of Detroit iron I am inclined to want to agreee. However, you need to really look hard at the 303 HP cars that the GM is turning out before you post. The Gran Prix/Impala are two cars that boast that they have the most front wheel horsepower in the market. Does anybody really believe that these cars have decent front to rear weight balance? And, that they don't plow into a turn? Or, how about the fact that they torque steer so bad that they are laughable as legitimate performance cars? 

Again, I see some of your overall points but since I am stuck with car payments, I will be very happy four years fom today when I look at my BMW's resale value vs. what I could have bought from the "General".


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

andyman said:


> I must first say, I am NOT a troll. I am a relatively new owner of a BMW 330ci with sport and premium packages. I bought the car with about 40k miles, and I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is. The car looks nice but does not perform or handle anywhere near other cars I was considering buying. I think I got sucked in the "prestige factor" and now think I made a mistake. What's so special about faux wood trim in a car that costs $45k new? I don't get it. The car only has 225HP and i could buy a Grand Prix GTP with 303 HP NEW for $28k or less. THAT car can drive in winter. I could buy a high performance muscle car (GTO, Mustang, etc.) with nearly 400HP and superior handling in the low $30k's new. Someone please explain to me what the big deal about a Bimmer is. The 330Ci I own seems cheaply built, is expensive to maintain ($80 oil/filter/lube) that HAS to be done at the dealership, and really not worth what people pay for these. I looked at M3's also, but thankfully before I spent that kind of money I wanted to see what a BMW really is. Maybe I just bought the wrong model (?)..
> 
> I'm not trying to be a downer for enthusiasts, but I'm just disappointed.


:wave: Welcome to the fest!

Well, appreciate you are not trying to be a troll, so fair questions. This is an great site to help resolve your issue tho, there are lots of friendly, enthusiastic folks here. One thing; they're all car nuts, so whatever happens you will always be welcome here, no matter what you drive. 

Chuck's post is a good one that bears reading; he's made some thoughtful points from his perspective of BMW ownership from the upper price point (6er).

Anyway: here's why I bought my car, and why it puts a smile on my face each day, every day, three years after I bought it. I'm not filthy rich, just basically a working stiff, so I had to compromise to get the best combination in one car for me:

1) performance oriented, practical, stylish, four door sedan
2) manual transmission mated to a smooth, high revving, tractable 6 cylinder engine
3) ergonomically well thought out driver's oriented cockpit, with all controls that fall readily to hand
4) high quality materials, fit and finish, both interior and exterior
5) Excellent steering handling, and roadholding for the price. Its no Porsche club racer, but it is a good handling, well-accelerating four door sedan.

To your specific points:

Horsepower is an unfortunately overused measure; try 0-60 times for a better metric. Either way, BMWs are not known for stop-light grand prixs. I routinely get out-accelerated by mommie-vans on their way to Starbucks unless I kick it up a notch.

Your point reference driving in snow doesn't square with facts; a snow-tire equpped RWD car will run rings around many if not most FWD/4WD SUVs in "typical" North American urban conditions.

BMWs have wood (real) trim, as others have pointed out.

I do my oil changes at home in between the dealer service intervals; I get OEM oil and filter from the dealer with BMW CCA discount. Search on "oil change"; its easy to do and your wallet will benefit as well as your car.

...but at the end of the day, most of all its the *DRIVING THE CAR*, each and every day. :thumbup:


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## Grunt66 (Oct 4, 2005)

I think your question has been answered but I will give my two cents. We (my wife and I) bought our first BMW (2002 525i) back in 2003. I still am and will always be pro corvette. I have owned four corvettes. The 525i really impressed me. This car was purchased for my wife. The car provides great handling along with comfort. It seems to do everything just right. It is a pleasure to drive to this day. So much so, that I ordered a 2005 330CI ZHP. I drove many of vehicles before ordering the 330CI. I drove the GTO, G35 coupe, and even the Cadillac CTS V. I went back to test drive the 330CI ZHP and it put an instant smile on my face. It is such a pleasure to drive. BMW’s are truly a driver’s car. My personnel opinion is that they are a bit underpowered and a little too pricey. Maintenance costs are high if you compare them to there American counter part. Before buying a vehicle, one should research the total cost of ownership (vehicle cost, insurance, and maintenance.) I test-drove the new Lexus IS350. Great acceleration, but in my opinion it does not handle as well as the new 330i. The interior of my E46 is well appointed and fit and finish is top notch. The American cars have made vast improvements in this area but still have a way to go. I have looked at various new cars and have noticed that the body panel did not match up. 

In closing, pick the car you will be happy with. There is nothing wrong with owning any one particular vehicle as long as you are happy. To me, owning a BMW is all about driving the vehicle.


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

GoHack said:


> Anyone who brings his vehicle, especially a BMW, to a fast lube place or Walmart is nuts. :tsk:
> 
> You're definitely much better off w/an American car. Don't make it a Vette either. They require synthetic oil only, w/Mobil 1 recommended, so they aren't cheap to maintain either.
> 
> ...


 i used synthetic oil..??...i do in both my cars the trans am and the bmw...i have used it in every car i have owned ..


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

wingspan said:


> 1) performance oriented, practical, stylish, four door sedan
> 2) manual transmission mated to a smooth, high revving, tractable 6 cylinder engine
> 3) ergonomically well thought out driver's oriented cockpit, with all controls that fall readily to hand
> 4) high quality materials, fit and finish, both interior and exterior
> 5) Excellent steering handling, and roadholding for the price. Its no Porsche club racer, but it is a good handling, well-accelerating four door sedan.


...and about the benefeit of an inline 6, this article from Wikipedia:

*Straight-6*

*From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*

The *straight-6* (also *inline-6*, *I-6*, or *I6*) is an internal combustion engine with six cylinders aligned in a single row. The name *slant-6* is sometimes used when the cylinders are at an angle from the vertical.
*Straight-6 engines have perfect primary and secondary **balance** and require no **balance shaft**.*
Usually a straight-6 was used for engine displacements between about 2.5 and 4.0 L. Sometimes this configuration is used to make smaller engines which tend to be powerful and very smooth running, but also rather expensive to manufacture and physically longer than alternative layouts. The smallest production straight-6 was found in the Benelli 750 sei motorcycle, displacing 747.7 cc. The largest are used in tractor-trailer combinations and some low speed diesels in cargo and passenger ships. These engines have a displacement of 1000 L or more.
Straight-6 engines were historically more common than V6s, mainly because the length of such engines was not such a concern in rear wheel drive vehicles but also because V6s (unlike the crossplaneV8) were somewhat difficult to make smooth-running. The widespread use of front-wheel-drive and transverse ("east-west") engine configurations in smaller cars saw that the shorter engine length of the V6 became highly desirable, and these days most six-cylinder engines are made in the V configuration.


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## GoHack (Jun 15, 2006)

Pursuitof325i said:


> i used synthetic oil..??...i do in both my cars the trans am and the bmw...i have used it in every car i have owned ..


I've been using it for years myself, in my cars, trucks, and motorcycles. Amsoil, Mobil 1, and just recently, German (European Blend) Castrol Syntec (GC).

I'm also very careful on my oil filters too. That includes never ever using Fram oil filters. You get exactly what you pay for w/them. They're cheap, quality wise. They don't filter as good as others, and they have a history of actually falling apart. I've known mechanics who have seen it happened. Stop by a Napa Auto Parts Store. They normally have oil filter cut-a-ways, w/a Fram among them. Having an old junk box, and using a Fram oil filter, is one thing, but using it on a 30, 40, or $50K vehicle, that's another. Spending money on a good $10+ oil filter isn't going to hurt that much. The OEM's are more than satisfactory, w/some aftermarket even better.

Finally, stay away from those cheap quick lub places, including Walmart. The guys there aren't even close to being what one would call, a mechanic. They have no reason to care about their work. It's no different working there than at McDonalds. I've personally known people who have had their oil changed, drive out, and few miles down the road, have the engine seize up. The lub place guy didn't tigthen the drain plug, and it fell off. Another, the wrong oil filter was put on. It was cross threaded. As well as others I've heard about. Again, having an old junk box, it may be OK, but again a 30, 40, or $50K vehicle? Really? Also w/synthetic oils now, you don't have to change it every 3000 miles anymore. Again, $80 every 15,000 miles, vs $80 every 3000?

If you want to read about oil or filters, go to the web site BOBISTHEOILGUY:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php

It's a great site. People there have their oil actually tested, so they can tell you what oil does the better job in lubricating. Same goes w/the oil filters. They've not only pretty much tested them all, but have cut-a-ways, showing their quality.
.


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

Hi, I'll chime in with a few of my own thoughts.

1. BMW has come up with a suspension that has never been matched by any other company. You can feel every bump in the road, and yet they all feel dampened in a way that makes the feel soft and firm at the same time. It's amazing. Additionally, under hard braking, the cars don't nose-dive at all, but rather seem to crouch down evenly while they come to a halt. Try as they may, no other company has been able to reproduce this quite the same way.

2. I and a few other 'Festers here had the opportunity to go to a Lexus sponsored driving event. Here we got to drive an autocross course in Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes automobiles all in the same classes (both the 3series, IS, class, and the 5series, GS class). I can honestly tell you that the handling of the BMW was so far superior to either the Lexus or the MB it wasn't even funny. The Benz felt sloppy - like you had no control. The Lexus was better but still lacked the feedback and confidence of the BMW. We did a similar Audi event recently and came otu feeling that Audi was actually the worst of the bunch.

3. BMWs in general (save for the Ms) aren't about pure speed. That said, my 330i with OEM Performance Package can do 0-60mph in 5.6-5.9s (depends one what source you look at). All that is with only 235 hp. That's no slouch. But it's not about the speed. It's about handling... it's about being able to come to a light making a left hand turn and not even need to hit the brakes to make the turn. I would never do that with a Mustang.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

i had problems w/ driving the rear wheel drive 3er in the winter w/ all-seasons. but this year i moved to ontario and slapped on some winter tires on and wow! i was really surprised about how well i can control a rear wheel drive vs. a front wheel drive in snow.


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

I have to agree with most of the posts here, the driving experience in a 330 is far superior to other cars in or near it's price range. Even if you are just talking performance the BMW is an incredible car doing what it was made to do. My car before my BMW was a Mustang and it was more powerful in a straight line than my current auto. The Mustang would win a stoplight "drag race" everytime. Now throw in a curve or two in the road and the BMW would win everytime. I live near some mountain roads that are perfect for a car like a 330, quick turns, fast cut backs and alot of shifting the 6 speed. The Mustang was not even close. I will say for that kind of driving I have found a manual much better than an automatic in the 3 series.


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## Chupracabre (Mar 5, 2005)

*Whats so special*

If you drive a BMW and dont get it, then don't buy one.

You listed some of the top cars wanted by ******** - unless you live in Spartanburg.
So to some extent BMW is a name thing. I think most of all BMW owners have paid 3-4k just for the name and we all keep paying it.

I'll take my stock e46 325XI (which is pretty much an entry level BMW) against them thar new Mustangs and lose you in the corners.

American cars and just plain cheap.


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## windnsea00 (Feb 13, 2005)

For people that don't understand BMW's and think they are a waste of $ then they obviously don't realize top notch engineering. The example of the 303hp Pontiac...yea still using a 19 year old W-body chassis with a 60/40 weight balance and a 4-spd auto, geez sounds fun. BMW is a leader in utilizing the best ideas and technology at the moment. I've driven all the big brands and a good deal of exotics and none pull of the overall balance that BMW can. Porsche is one of my other fav.'s but obviously they are focused sport cars. Audi makes some great vehicles too but don't match BMW's driving level. MBZ...hah. And obviously such companies like Ferrari, etc. are a delight but not realistic for everyday use unless your raking in the cash. The only downside as of recent is BMW doing some cheap parts in interiors (mainly plastics like window regulators, etc.) While BMW is my fav. company overall even I find faults and like to tweak the cars to my tastes but they are great platforms to start off of.


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## Pursuitof325i (Jun 4, 2006)

GoHack said:


> I've been using it for years myself, in my cars, trucks, and motorcycles. Amsoil, Mobil 1, and just recently, German (European Blend) Castrol Syntec (GC).
> 
> I'm also very careful on my oil filters too. That includes never ever using Fram oil filters. You get exactly what you pay for w/them. They're cheap, quality wise. They don't filter as good as others, and they have a history of actually falling apart. I've known mechanics who have seen it happened. Stop by a Napa Auto Parts Store. They normally have oil filter cut-a-ways, w/a Fram among them. Having an old junk box, and using a Fram oil filter, is one thing, but using it on a 30, 40, or $50K vehicle, that's another. Spending money on a good $10+ oil filter isn't going to hurt that much. The OEM's are more than satisfactory, w/some aftermarket even better.
> 
> ...


 i used a napa oil filter.... ....my bmw is fun ..but my trans am lol she make me giggle i lvoe that low end torque  ...two totally different cars i cant compare my muscle to my pretty little bmw  ...but i love both for different reasons.....


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## Kzang (Apr 12, 2006)

Actually as a valet, you shouldn't be doing any high speed driving, you should be obeying the speed limit and drive responsibly for the owners car while it is in your hands.


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## mikevaquez (Jun 23, 2006)

Kzang said:


> Actually as a valet, you shouldn't be doing any high speed driving, you should be obeying the speed limit and drive responsibly for the owners car while it is in your hands.


Well back then I was young and didn't know any better. Of course there is no excuse for my actions. It did make me fall in love with the BMW though. All I was trying to say was that the BMW is a fun car to drive. :thumbup:


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

andyman said:


> The car only has 225HP and i could buy a Grand Prix GTP with 303 HP NEW for $28k or less. THAT car can drive in winter. I could buy a high performance muscle car (GTO, Mustang, etc.) with nearly 400HP and superior handling in the low $30k's new.


I cannot resist since I own both a E46 330xi and a GTO. The GTO has it all over my BMW in accleration and top speed, but my 330 (even with the AWD) is a superior handling car. The GTO is not bad, but it does have some wallow to it. I will spend some money on the suspension to bring it up to a closer level. Overall the 330 is the better balanced car, even though the GTO is probally the best 4 seater that I've ever driven from GM (no surprise since it began life as a Holden Monaro  ) Brute horsepower does not a complete car make 

A BMW can be driven in winter with no problems. I had a 528 wagon with Blizzak snow tires and it was great in the snow. I actually preferred the handling of it to my 330xi with snows. My 330 is not bad in the snow either, but invest in good snow tires.

Oh I saw something about prestige. I didn't buy either for the prestige; I bought them because they are fun to drive, each in their own way. :thumbup:


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## M3Mike (Jan 22, 2006)

gojira-san said:


> I cannot resist since I own both a E46 330xi and a GTO. The GTO has it all over my BMW in accleration and top speed, but my 330 (even with the AWD) is a superior handling car. The GTO is not bad, but it does have some wallow to it. I will spend some money on the suspension to bring it up to a closer level. Overall the 330 is the better balanced car, even though the GTO is probally the best 4 seater that I've ever driven from GM (no surprise since it began life as a Holden Monaro  ) Brute horsepower does not a complete car make
> 
> A BMW can be driven in winter with no problems. I had a 528 wagon with Blizzak snow tires and it was great in the snow. I actually preferred the handling of it to my 330xi with snows. My 330 is not bad in the snow either, but invest in good snow tires.
> 
> Oh I saw something about prestige. I didn't buy either for the prestige; I bought them because they are fun to drive, each in their own way. :thumbup:


Sadly *imo* the new GTO's are Butt ugly. :bareass: 

:stickpoke


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

gojira-san said:


> I cannot resist since I own both a E46 330xi and a GTO. The GTO has it all over my BMW in accleration and top speed, but my 330 (even with the AWD) is a superior handling car. The GTO is not bad, but it does have some wallow to it. I will spend some money on the suspension to bring it up to a closer level. Overall the 330 is the better balanced car, even though the GTO is probally the best 4 seater that I've ever driven from GM (no surprise since it began life as a Holden Monaro  ) Brute horsepower does not a complete car make


top gear had an interesting test of the monaro.


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

Not to go too far off topic but...


M3Mike said:


> Sadly *imo* the new GTO's are Butt ugly. :bareass:
> :stickpoke


I like it because it is nice and stealthy looking, well until it passes you... nothing stealthy about the exhaust sound :rofl: I wish that they had left it more Monaro looking and less Pontiac but those are the breaks. 



HW said:


> top gear had an interesting test of the monaro.


 which one was it? I've seen a few of the shows that have featured the Monaro.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

gojira-san said:


> Not to go too far off topic but...
> 
> I like it because it is nice and stealthy looking, well until it passes you... nothing stealthy about the exhaust sound :rofl: I wish that they had left it more Monaro looking and less Pontiac but those are the breaks.
> 
> which one was it? I've seen a few of the shows that have featured the Monaro.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=YgxnSyrnTwY&search=


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## M3Mike (Jan 22, 2006)

gojira-san said:


> Not to go too far off topic but...
> 
> I like it because it is nice and stealthy looking, well until it passes you... nothing stealthy about the exhaust sound :rofl: I wish that they had left it more Monaro looking and less Pontiac but those are the breaks.
> 
> which one was it? I've seen a few of the shows that have featured the Monaro.


I am just playin'  

I would actually love to see the older styles back in action including the Camaro on tap.


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## gojira-san (Mar 1, 2004)

HW said:


> http://youtube.com/watch?v=YgxnSyrnTwY&search=


Ah yes, I have seen that one; that car engine-wise is equivalent to the '04 GTO. The '05 and '06 came with the 6.0L 400hp LS2 motor, so it is a little faster... a friend said his eyeballs were "smooshing into the back of [his] head" when I gave him a ride.

Another difference from the Top Gear car is mine doesn't have the option that calls you a "poofta" if you turn the traction control on either... :rofl:


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

gojira-san said:


> Another difference from the Top Gear car is *mine doesn't have the option that calls you a "poofta" if you turn the traction control on either*... :rofl:


oh.. did _you_ mod that out :dunno: :angel:


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## strobl (Mar 19, 2006)

Maybe you should have waited for a bi-turbo...


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## IceGT (Sep 27, 2005)

I feel as if this thread could have been prevented with a few good test drives. People need to do market research before they buy a vehicle. It is an important investment, and if you do not spend the appropriate time shopping for the car you want, or the car to meet your needs you are bound to be disappointed.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> :rofl: You crack me up. You dog BMW and your car, and then will head right back to buy another one. :rofl:


here's the place to complain about your beefs/griefs. bmw reads these forums. and they should. free feedback. if everyone just praises bmw on everything they do then how can we get improvements for future bmws. :dunno:


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## gregnick3377 (Jul 27, 2006)

I actually was looking at the BMW 325i or 328i in 1996 and also looking at the A4, the Dodge Intrepid, and the Grand Prix all the new models. Of all the cars I personally thought the BMW drove the best, though other were faster. At the time, I choose the Intrepid since it was about $8K less the the BMW with the options I wanted. Now in the first 18 months I owned the Intrepid it broke down 5 times. Requiring a tow and repair. (Tows cost me $, the repairs were under warranty but I was without the car a few days waiting for it to be fixed) in 2001, the intrepid cost me further repairs on the front suspension and some other issues, for about $1500 as it was OOW now. Then a few months later, the tranny went as well. So, I decided to stop pouring money into this car and get something new. I looked at the BMW again, the A4 and grand Prix and the Toyota camry witht he 6 cyclinder. I still felt the the BMW drive the best, and was on par witht he price of the A4 and the Camry. I bought the new 325i BMW for ~$29K with the options I wanted. It's been almost 5 years, and it had a couple of real minor issues, window regulator, and wiper timing thing. But it's never left me stranded>There is a status there still with that ride. You tell seom you bought an audi or camry, they say, oh, those are " good cars." You buy a BMW and they say, "Nice" If I could do it all over again, I think I would have got he ix for those slippery days in New England, but I have never been stuck with the rear wheel drive yet.

My 2 cents.


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## Franzwild (Dec 13, 2006)

its the quality of the car, slam a bmw 5 series door, there is nothing better sounding to the ear, its true on my 530 07 and on my 525 92! I had an 89 that went to 220,000 miles and was still running when i gave it away to charity a few months ago (rust creeped in). I used to buy used BMW 5series about 5 yrs old, you get a great car and VALUE since the depreciation kicks in. I recently bought new for the first time. I still marvel at the engineering, i've had it for a week. Its a brand thing, a club, just look a this website, don't see this with GM or lexus. The only thing comperable is Porsche. Those people are fanatics.


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## papa8706 (Dec 21, 2006)

BMW makes quality cars i dunno how anyone wouldnt be satisfied with one. Right now i own a 325xi and im getting a new 2007 3 series coupe next week. If you are more concerned with having a fast car then check out the m series, and IMO it performs well for the average person and better then any other car i drove its class. I'd take a bmw over a GTO or mustang any day


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## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

I can't rightly say that I'm a big fan of BMW, I just happen to like the one particular car (of their design) that I happen to own at the moment.

You would buy these cars for the same reason you would buy a fine wine or an expertly crafted brew - it has certain intrinsic qualities which require a certain level of taste to appreciate. Which is also to say that most people are wasting their money when buying one - because on the surface, you can often get far more with a cheaper product. I'm fairly certain that most people raving about whatever it is they rave about when BMW comes into discussion don't actually have anything even resembling a clue. That's what makes hype what it is. In any case, don't buy a Belgian Trappist looking to get smashed. Priorities determine preference. 

For my part, I tolerate an utter lack of power, fairly mediocre fuel economy, irritating reliability quirks and numerous other flaws simply so I can have a daily driver which combines RWD with a manual transmission, four doors, and some faint semblance of actual driver involvement.


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## robdaemon (Nov 20, 2006)

andyman said:


> I bought the car with about 40k miles, and I'm still trying to figure out what the big deal is. The car looks nice but does not perform or handle anywhere near other cars I was considering buying.


Please don't compare a BMW to a Pontiac. That's.. just... wrong!

I just picked up my 2007 BMW 335i Coupe on Tuesday. Driving this car is amazing.

I'm going to this car from a 2004 Toyota Solara, which has a phenomenal interior quality, and is just a nice car. It's not nearly as quick as my BMW, nor does it handle like the BMW, but so be it.

Prior to ordering my car, I had considered a 2006 BMW 330i and the 2006 Infiniti G35. While I liked the Infiniti's exhaust sound, it just didn't feel as quick off the line as the BMW, and the BMW had a much less powerful engine. The BMW practically begged me to drive it hard, whereas the G just wanted to sound like you were driving it hard.

If you can't understand why the BMW is the Ultimate Driving machine, then you probably just bought it for the nameplate. That's fine. However, maybe you should buy a Lexus ES350 next time.


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## ban91r (Nov 20, 2006)

My mate has a e46 M coupe, i had a ride in it the other day, you know what i was like hey this things sounds ****. little did i know he wasn't running it on sport mode until he flicked it over and the whole car changed.

anyway its down to each persons individual criteria when it comes to buying a car, whats good for one may not be for another, hence different specs colours so forth.

IMO from what you've said andy you've bought the wrong car for you. its like say buying a 7 series to drive it 2 miles a day theres just no point and you wouldn't be happy because those types of cars aren't made to just drive for short periods, admittedly you'd probably enjoy it but not enjoy it to its full potential.

go test drive an M3 i'm sure you won't be disappointed, as yes i'm aware they come with a nice price tag too but hey if we all want nice things we have to pay for them right. i'd like an Aston Martin DB9 but it aint gonna happen. never drove and never likely to get a chance to but i think they look cool.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

akhbhaat said:


> For my part, I tolerate an utter lack of power, fairly mediocre fuel economy, irritating reliability quirks and numerous other flaws simply so I can have a daily driver which combines RWD with a manual transmission, four doors, and some faint semblance of actual driver involvement.


+1 :stupid:


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