# ED Pricing



## FrankAZ (Feb 19, 2009)

These are the various prices on the Confidential Price List:

US MSRP for the vehicle (e.g. basic three parameters of series, style, engine)
ED MSRP for the vehicle (which is 7% less than US MSRP)
US Wholesale (aka invoice) for the vehicle
ED Wholesale (aka invoice) for the vehicle
MSRP for options and packages
Wholesale for options and packages (which is ~9% less than MSRP).

You get your price by adding up the blue prices for what you want. Add $825 delivery fee (same as a regular sale) and what you think is a fair dealer margin ($500-$1500 depending on lots of emotional variables of your choosing). Make sure you don't get hit for MACO, which is the amortized US advertising fee. The dealer will then play games with such things as document fees (which they claim are fixed and even go so far as to have them printed on the PO, but work with them). Then the dealer will show you pictures of their children and try to sell you such things as floor mats (unlogo'd ones of which come with the car at the Welt). When all is done compare what you expected line by line with the dealer's own itemization and make sure there are no peculiarities which have slipped in by accident in the game of to-and-fro. I used a spreadsheet, a printed proposal for what I wanted, and a copy of the Confidential Price List to show the dealer and signed my PO within 15 minutes of walking into the showroom. I gave the dealer no wiggle room on a 328i sedan, held eye contact, and got exactly what I had documented.

Finally, when you go back to the dealership to do final paperwork before leaving for Germany the finance person will try to work you over on tinting, paint treatments, tire insurances, and the like. Negotiate brutally on those if you want them because the margins are huge, otherwise shrug them off.

You are eligible for whatever BMW Financial Service deals are available on whatever price you negotiate. Check the Wiki for special timing constraints though.

Lots of good stuff in the Wiki and this forum's previous posts if you search diligently.

Frank.


----------



## 530i-2002 (Oct 8, 2007)

Thanks Frank, got it now.


----------



## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

Well said Frank. :clap:

That's about exactly how my negotiations went.


----------



## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

530i-2002 said:


> So it seems that answers my question - wholesale price for options, right? I thought The Other Tom suggested options are not discounted on ED - so which is it?


There is no separate ED price for options. The option MSRP and wholesale prices are the same. The only difference on ED is the base price of the car itself, where both the wholesale and MSRP of the ED car are about 7% lower than the US delivery price of each.


----------



## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

b-y said:


> ViaPerturbatio:
> 
> I think I remember you are from Detroit. Do you know anyone at Cadillac? From what I read (in the WSJ) they need help with marketing and brand loyalty. My view is that it is in all our interests as owners of high-end vehicles to have them succeed. Maybe we should offer to help.


We should start a different thread for this out of respect to the OP but yes I do know folks from Cadillac. Unfortunately, candid advice from people "in the business" is too well, how shall I say, logical.  Cadillac needs more right now than just marketing. They have to figure out how to differentiate themselves to gain market share. To put it another way, you have to know what your "shtick" is. For example,

BMW = technology, handling and status
Mercedes = comfort and luxury
Lexus = luxury, reliability, ride
Audi = innovation and style detail
Cadillac = ?????

IMHO, the problem is having spent so many years wanting to be performance AND luxury, Cadillac can't decide what to focus on and doesn't do any of it exceptionally well at the present time. They have also thrifted the vehicle over the past several years and changed their demographic target. GM does know how to do brand management right as exemplified in the Corvette - a well branded sports car. All they have to do is decide what to focus on and then work with their internal folks to brand with similar logic as they brand the 'Vette.

We all know what crappy cup holders we have to deal with for our performance based status symbols with great handling. 

My apologies to the OP for being OT.


----------



## 530i-2002 (Oct 8, 2007)

Tanning machine said:


> There is no separate ED price for options. The option MSRP and wholesale prices are the same. The only difference on ED is the base price of the car itself, where both the wholesale and MSRP of the ED car are about 7% lower than the US delivery price of each.


I was not suggesting there was a separate ED price for options. It seems there is a price difference between MSRP (Retail) and Invoice (wholesale) prices on options though - see packages comparison below:

Packages (Retail 135i)
ZCW Cold Weather Package $545 
ZPP Premium Package $3,095 
ZSP Sport Package $1,000

Packages (Wholesale 135i)
ZCW Cold Weather Package $600
ZPP Premium Package $3,400 
ZSP Sport Package $1,100


----------



## FrankAZ (Feb 19, 2009)

The #1 take-away from all this is that you ought to be negotiating from wholesale ED + wholesale options. Many dealers (well, at least one in my experience and anecdotally many according to this forum) try to con you into thinking the 'rules' say ED MSRP + Options MSRP, giving you only 7% off the US MSRP of the vehicle.

To be honest, that is what I thought after visiting the first dealer here in Phoenix for an exploratory sniff of new cars. It was quite despiriting. Then I discovered this forum and read some very enlightening words in the Wiki. After that the first dealer received a brusque, brief, and for me very enjoyable conversation and I drove 20 minutes north (hint hint) and spoke to some real gents. Bingo! Deal done.

It's been 8 months since that brusque conversation and the memory still warms my heart.

Frank.


----------



## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

530i-2002 said:


> I was not suggesting there was a separate ED price for options. It seems there is a price difference between MSRP (Retail) and Invoice (wholesale) prices on options though - see packages comparison below:


Understood. There are a lot of people who ask about the "ED invoice price" of options. I was trying to clarify that there are only two option prices: MSRP and invoice. There are four base prices (well, more because of diplomat delivery, but you get the point and I hope others do either here or by reading the wiki).


----------



## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

FrankAZ said:


> The #1 take-away from all this is that you ought to be negotiating from wholesale ED + wholesale options.
> 
> ....Then I discovered this forum and read some very enlightening words in the Wiki.


This is exactly how I came to discover Bimmerfest and learn about ED and ED bargaining. My negotiations started from wholesale ED + wholesale options. My conversations initially were limited to e-mail and brief phone. Aside from all their extensive experience in ED, one of the reasons you find Board Sponsors and a few other commonly referred to CAs better to deal with is that you just avoid all the proverbial old-school bargaining B.S.. Make your offers via fax or e-mail. The process will likely go a lot smoother. Also, don't be afraid to travel to a different dealer. The savings and hassle-avoidance will be well worth it. :thumbup:


----------



## 530i-2002 (Oct 8, 2007)

FrankAZ said:


> Many dealers (well, at least one in my experience and anecdotally many according to this forum) try to con you into thinking the 'rules' say ED MSRP + Options MSRP, giving you only 7% off the US MSRP of the vehicle.
> Frank.


This is exactly what my local dealer told me. We were initially talking about CPO 3 series I was looking at but the minute I mentioned 135i ED he printed MSRP portion of the pricelist and said that ED prices are in print in that document. There was no mention of the invoice prices page - until I saw the sticky on 1 series forum.


----------



## scubajag (Mar 14, 2005)

Although I performed a search, I cannot find the ED price for the Z-4 which I understand is mfg. in Germany. Can anyone give me some guidance.


----------



## DonnaBlackson (May 14, 2006)

Dealers still get the allocation though for ED....


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Beenthere said:


> You may need to contact BMW NA or your dealer as BMW's website does not show the Z-4 available for ED at this time.


You can do a ED on a Z4. My order was confirmed yesterday with a pickup date of 1/29/10. I am saving 14% off US MSRP including the $1500 holiday cash. Will do a quick 3 night trip for about $1500.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

The Other Tom said:


> ..... Remember that there's no discount on options ....


???????? When did this change? I have always gotten a discount on the options on my four Euro Delivery Bimmers.


----------



## bap (Jun 25, 2008)

pharding said:


> ???????? When did this change? I have always gotten a discount on the options on my four Euro Delivery Bimmers.


Depends on the dealer. I used Irv Robinson and everything was from ED wholesale. My local dealers, everything was negotiated from highest retail published anywhere. Needless to say, I used Irv. Negotiating options at wholesale is a significant savings and would be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## Zooks527 (Mar 15, 2009)

FrankAZ said:


> Then the dealer will show you pictures of their children


Oh, tell me about it! The CA I worked most with (and who I would have given some extra$ to) actually took offense that I was negotiating with other dealers.

"You're going to treat this like just another business transaction?"

Um, no. Since I rarely drop $45k on a single purchase, I'm treating this as an extraordinary business transaction. And as much as I've liked the couple of hours we've spent working out what I want for a car, the pleasure of your company is not worth the $3000 premium you're trying to assign to it.

George


----------



## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

It seems that most CA's want to believe the customer is naive as to price MSRP vs Invoice.
I had a CA tell me the USA and ED prices are the same. I gave an offer based on invoice plus profit as dissussed in the Wiki.
The CA looked me straight in the eye and said I was crazy. The crazy thing is, I purchased the car that is sitting in NJ now
and the same CA called me yesterday to have me come down to the dealership because "cars were selling so fast his inventory was low".
I supposed I saved his inventory so he can sit there and sell cars to other naive customers.


----------



## Jeff_B (Jan 3, 2010)

I just ordered a 135i for ED and got a few So Cal dealers to agree to $400 over ED invoice. There were also a couple of dealers that said they only do ED for MSRP, so I didn't bother with them.

I think your best bet is to find someone that knows a lot about the program, and research it a lot going in. If you already know all the details such as the ED base price, 2nd month lease payment being waived, .0003 MF increase on lease, etc., they are less likely to try to BS you.


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Jeff_B said:


> I just ordered a 135i for ED and got a few So Cal dealers to agree to $400 over ED invoice. There were also a couple of dealers that said they only do ED for MSRP, so I didn't bother with them.
> 
> I think your best bet is to find someone that knows a lot about the program, and research it a lot going in. If you already know all the details such as the ED base price, 2nd month lease payment being waived, .0003 MF increase on lease, etc., they are less likely to try to BS you.


$400 over true Munich Delivery Invoice sounds too good to be true. Watch for extra charges when you sign the deal. They may have $500 doc fees, etc. If this is indeed true you got a great deal.


----------



## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

rmorin49 said:


> $400 over true Munich Delivery Invoice sounds too good to be true. Watch for extra charges when you sign the deal. They may have $500 doc fees, etc. If this is indeed true you got a great deal.


That is indeed in the ballpark some of the more ED savvy dealers in SoCal are accepting. No surprises at signing/financing or registration either. Add the Holiday Joy financing rebate, the BMWCCA rebate and the results are deals now that aren't likely to be seen in the foreseeable future. It's a good time for a Munich delivery!

Dick


----------



## Jeff_B (Jan 3, 2010)

Yup, that deal is definitely possible at some of the So Cal dealers without any hidden fees. I ended up leasing it (2010 135i 6MT w/ Sports Package) for $0 down, $373 a month including tax after the $1500 holiday credit and 7 MSDs.


----------



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

rmorin49 said:


> They may have $500 doc fees, etc.


Not possible - CA state regulates doc fees. Max is around $50.


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

chrischeung said:


> Not possible - CA state regulates doc fees. Max is around $50.


I guess there are some advantages to living in CA after all, that is besides the weather and the good looking women. I have seen doc fees as high as $500 at some unscrupulous dealers. Typically there are in the $200 range in my area. Some dealers say they are mandatory, but I believe this is pure BS.


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

rmorin49 said:


> I guess there are some advantages to living in CA after all, that is besides the weather and the good looking women. I have seen doc fees as high as $500 at some unscrupulous dealers. Typically there are in the $200 range in my area. Some dealers say they are mandatory, but I believe this is pure BS.


Our 9.75% sales tax really hurts.


----------



## Hoo (Jan 20, 2010)

*European Delivery of 2011 M3--Confused on ED pricing!*

I can order 2011 M3 for $500-1000 over invoice from a variety of dealers including $800 over invoice from the closest dealer to me (from whom I've gotten good service over the years).

I'm also considering European Delivery (ED), and my dealer called with "good news", that I could get an M3 with ED in April. He claimed that ED pricing was 7% off of dealer sticker base price, with no discount on the options--but this actually works out to being more than the US invoice price plus $800, in spite of the fact that he claims I'll save a lot of money on ED.

Am I correct that European Delivery Price should be US Base Sticker *Invoice* Price minus 7% discount, plus invoice cost of options (options not discounted), plus gas guzzler tax and Delivery charges+Plus a dealer profit of say $1000?

In my case, using 2010 prices (2011 not available yet) a Sedan with a US sticker price of $66,155 would have ED price $57,387 (using US invoice minus 7%, plus invoice cost of options). If you allow dealer $1000 profit the ED price would be $58,387, a significant savings.

Dealer's ED price of Base sticker less 7% + sticker price of options would be $62,266 or if you use Base Sticker less 7% + invoice price (no discount) of options it would still be $61,496 which is no significant savings over US negotiated price of invoice +$800 of $61,755

What is the real story?


----------



## The Other Tom (Sep 28, 2002)

[/QUOTE]
Am I correct that European Delivery Price should be US Base Sticker Invoice Price minus 7% discount, plus invoice cost of options (options not discounted), plus gas guzzler tax and Delivery charges+Plus a dealer profit of say $1000?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, you are correct. M3 coupe US base invoice is $53220, ED base invoice is $49495. Also, training fee and MACO do not apply to ED cars.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/pdf/pricing/2010/2010-M3-Pricing.pdf


----------



## Hoo (Jan 20, 2010)

*Thanks, The Other Tom,*

I'm off to my dealer --If he'll give me the European Delivery price of US Invoice, less 7% plus invoice cost of options, destination charges, & gas guzzler tax + $1,000 profit it would represent a savings of $3368 over the negotiated US delivery price of US invoice plus $800. Even a $1,500 dealer profit would give $2868 savings which would still make it worthwhile to pursue--could get 2 roundtrip tickets to Munich plus some spending money for a quick trip to Germany. Otherwise, European delivery doesn't make any sense. My wife has no interest in seeing the BMW facilities--but would tolerate it for about a half day.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

The Other Tom said:


> Thank you for reading the Wiki first and welcome to the fest.
> To answer you question, if a dealer will sell for $500 over invoice, then he should sell for $500 over ED invoice. As you pointed out, ED invoice is ~7% less than US invoice. Remember that there's no discount on options and you still pay the delivery fee, but not MACO or training.


I am not sure where the MYTH, that some are articulating, came from that options are not discounted. I have always gotten the options at a discount except when I leased two cars through Motor Werks of Barrington, Illinois. Yesterday I started negotiating for a July delivery on a 550 Euro Delivery. The discussion and offer was based dollars over BMW Euro Delivery Confidential Wholesale Pricing. Historically it has always been dollars over Euro Delivery Invoice Pricing for both base car and options. When I see the the shift in your post and a few others, I can't help but wonder why the change for some?


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Hoo said:


> I'm off to my dealer --If he'll give me the European Delivery price of US Invoice, less 7% plus invoice cost of options, destination charges, & gas guzzler tax + $1,000 profit it would represent a savings of $3368 over the negotiated US delivery price of US invoice plus $800. Even a $1,500 dealer profit would give $2868 savings which would still make it worthwhile to pursue--could get 2 roundtrip tickets to Munich plus some spending money for a quick trip to Germany. Otherwise, European delivery doesn't make any sense. My wife has no interest in seeing the BMW facilities--but would tolerate it for about a half day.


You are shortchanging yourself. You should be able to get 10 percent plus off of US MSRP.


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

pharding said:


> I am not sure where the MYTH, that some are articulating, came from that options are not discounted. I have always gotten the options at a discount except when I leased two cars through Motor Werks of Barrington, Illinois. Yesterday I started negotiating for a July delivery on a 550 Euro Delivery. The discussion and offer was based dollars over BMW Euro Delivery Confidential Wholesale Pricing. Historically it has always been dollars over Euro Delivery Invoice Pricing for both base car and options. When I see the the shift in your post and a few others, I can't help but wonder why the change for some?


It's not a myth, but a confusion that some people have on the price of the options. On the base price of a vehicle, there are 3 pricing - US MSRP, US Invoice, and ED Invoice.

However, there are only 2 pricing on options - US MSRP, US Invoice=ED Invoice.

When people say there's no discount on options, it means there's no "further" discount like it does on the base price of the vehicle, where it's 7% cheaper than US invoice, which is not the case for options.


----------



## The Other Tom (Sep 28, 2002)

outie said:


> It's not a myth, but a confusion that some people have on the price of the options. On the base price of a vehicle, there are 3 pricing - US MSRP, US Invoice, and ED Invoice.
> 
> However, there are only 2 pricing on options - US MSRP, US Invoice=ED Invoice.
> 
> When people say there's no discount on options, it means there's no "further" discount like it does on the base price of the vehicle, where it's 7% cheaper than US invoice, which is not the case for options.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## jbailey895 (Dec 5, 2009)

I hope I'm not floggin the dead pony even more, but is the x% off ED invoice negotiable? BMWUSA website says 7%. I know the 2011 pricing isn't out yet, but I assume x$'s above ED invoice is still the standard negotiation, with the difference between US and ED invoice already established, and non-negotiable, correct?
I'm also in So Cal(San Diego), and realize from another post that Phillipe is gone for another couple weeks, would appreciate any feedback on current 2011 ED offers, ie are people getting $500 or less over ED invoice? If its better to pm, I'd appreciate that too.

thanx,
Joel


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

BMW USA website says 7% off the MSRP, which we all know it's more like 7% off the US Invoice. You may be confused because you are not going to get any further % off of the ED Invoice, as it's already 7% off the US Invoice.

I know this all sounds confusing, but take a look at the 2010 Confidential wholesale pricing chart found here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394728

The MSRP, US Invoice, and ED Invoice are all established. This ED Invoice is the exact # you should use rather than the % rule. Keep in mind the pricing chart is outdated as this was for MY2010 and there was a price increase and destination increase after 1/1/2010.

Since you are in Socal it is possible to get $500 over ED Invoice, as someone else has mentioned before.


----------



## jbailey895 (Dec 5, 2009)

Cool, thanx outie. I understand now. So pricing and MF's for 2011's are really what I want to see, but I can still negotiate for $ over ED invoice. Has anyone done ED in San Diego? I'm not opposed to using an OC/LA dealer either, just wondering.


----------



## jbailey895 (Dec 5, 2009)

Oops, wait, where is the ED invoice #'s?the link is to the US invoice only. . . .


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

On the very top of the 1st page, "Base Price Euro Delivery Munich Pick Up" is the ED invoice of the base vehicle. Again, there's no further ED invoice price for the options as mentioned earlier.

The 1st page is Wholesale/Invoice.
The 2nd page is MSRP.

I am not sure what vehicle you are looking at, but if it says N/A next to Base Price Euro Delivery Munich Pick Up, like the X5, it means they don't offer ED on it.


----------



## jbailey895 (Dec 5, 2009)

Uh, yeah, I'm the idiot, didn't read past line one I guess, thanx outie. Interesting, though, that the Edmunds "invoice" base price for a 2010 E93 is 47,105, and this confidential wholesale price for 2010 E93 is 46,645. Does Edmunds account for the Maco and training in their "invoice" price? its just less than $500, but that would make sense. Essentially, if I'm negotiating with a dealer, can I use the ED wholesale price, plus invoice price of options, and offer their profit for ED, or for a local car, add maco and training and profit? Starting to make sense I guess, thanks.


----------



## pagefault (Jul 23, 2009)

outie said:


> BMW USA website says 7% off the MSRP, which we all know it's more like 7% off the US Invoice. You may be confused because you are not going to get any further % off of the ED Invoice, as it's already 7% off the US Invoice.
> 
> I know this all sounds confusing, but take a look at the 2010 Confidential wholesale pricing chart found here:
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394728
> ...


Keep in mind, ED Invoice is 7% off the base Invoice. However, ED Invoice on options is not discounted from normal invoice.


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

jbailey895 said:


> Uh, yeah, I'm the idiot, didn't read past line one I guess, thanx outie. Interesting, though, that the Edmunds "invoice" base price for a 2010 E93 is 47,105, and this confidential wholesale price for 2010 E93 is 46,645. Does Edmunds account for the Maco and training in their "invoice" price? its just less than $500, but that would make sense. Essentially, if I'm negotiating with a dealer, can I use the ED wholesale price, plus invoice price of options, and offer their profit for ED, or for a local car, add maco and training and profit? Starting to make sense I guess, thanks.


I believe Edmunds has the updated invoice price (1/1/2010 ~1% price increase), as well as the updated $875 destination. The PDF on this site I linked earlier was for pre 1/1/2010.

For ED car, yes, ED invoice on base car + Invoice for options + destination + dealer profit. For local car or ordering for US delivery, you cannot go with the ED invoice, you need to use the US invoice, plus Maco.


----------



## Hoo (Jan 20, 2010)

*Euro Delivery charges--Delivery/Documentation Fees??*

I'm looking at ordering 2011 M3, possibly using European Delivery for this spring. 2011 prices not yet available, but using 2010 pricing as reference point. I can get the car for $800 over US invoice ($63,700) at nearest dealer (40 miles away) offering pickup and delivery/loaner for service for traditional purchase.

Still waiting final word for Euro Delivery price from this dealer--initial proposal was essentially the same price as traditional purchase.

Another dealer (with ties to Bimmerfest) has offered the following-- $61,299 or $2,134 over European invoice, charging European Invoice plus $500.00, but also charging a *documentation fee of $750.00*, government fees ($33.50), *delivery fee ($850.00)* for the total of $61,299, about $2,400 less than traditional deal at nearby dealer--probably just enough for a couple of tickets to Munich. Are the delivery fee of $850 (in addition to destination charge of $825) & the documentation fee of $750 legitimate charges?

I was thinking I could offer $500 to a maximum of $1,500 total over the European Invoice--less than the $2,134 they are asking.

2010 BMW M3 Coupe European Delivery Vehicle Pricing:

US MSRP EURO MSRP EURO INV

M3 Coupe Base Price: $58,400 $54,310.00 $49,965.00

Premium Package: $2,000.00 $1,820.00

Technology Package: $3,250.00 $2,960.00

Cold Weather Package: $750.00 $685.00

Satellite Radio: $350.00 $320.00

Park Distance Control: $380.00 $345.00

Ipod and USB adapter: $400.00 $365.00

Moonroof: No additional charge

Metallic Paint: $550.00 $500.00

Gas Guzzler: $1,300.00 $1,300.00

Destination: $825.00 $825.00

Sub Total: $68,255 US MSRP $64,165.00 US invoice $59,135.00 Euro Invoice

*Sales Tax and fees are not included in above quoted pricing. I work off of European Invoice plus $500.00. $59,635.00 doc fees ($750.00), government fees ($33.50), delivery fee ($850.00) and sales tax


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

What is this delivery fee for? Are you ordering from out-of-state dealer that needs to ship the car to you? Why don't you try to get ED from your nearest dealer & match the $500 over invoice? If so you can save that delivery fee.


----------



## Hoo (Jan 20, 2010)

*Euro Delivery fee/Documentation fee...*

Delivery fee is not clear to me--will need to clarify that as well as the "Documentation fee". Seems like it is just added profit. The dealer in question is about 4 hrs away and I could pick up the car without too much difficulty to avoid that charge (chose that dealer because of association with Bimmerfest & their purported emphasis on European delivery, but could explore pricing with closer regional dealers--however, thought they could provide a ready reference price to see if the deal I was being offered was reasonable).

I've offered my dealer a flat $1,500 over European invoice for European delivery & am still waiting for manager's decision. Gave them the choice--$800 over invoice for local/traditional purchase vs $1,500 over European invoice. The salesman indicated that the latter price would result in them making less money on the deal (due to various dealer incentives), but that he'd love to have me enjoy the European delivery experience.

The way I calculate it (based on 2010 pricing, and presuming similar circumstances with 2011 pricing) the $1.5 K over European invoice deal would be just over $3K less than the traditional purchase price--that is assuming there is no such thing as a $750 documentation fee and no $850 delivery fee. That would probably make it worthwhile.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

You should find out if the Euro Delivery M3 comes out of dealer allocation. Dealer profit numbers discussed here are based upon cars not coming out of dealer allocation. A generic BMW non-M3, i.e. a 535 in that price range should be doable for $800 to $1,000 dealer profit in my guestimation. You should post here, Bimmerfest 3 Series forum, e90post to find out what others have paid for a Euro Delivery M3.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Hoo said:


> ... Are the delivery fee of $850 (in addition to destination charge of $825) & the documentation fee of $750 legitimate charges? ....


No, absolutely not. Unless they mislabed the Lease Acquisition Fee. When I see stuff like that I look for another dealer that is trustworthy.


----------



## Loki335d (Jan 19, 2010)

Are you planning to do ED with performance center redelivery? If so, you can buy from anyone in the country. Here is what I did: I first went to my local dealership, but they wouldn't give me a price within the range of good ED prices noted in the Wiki. So I sent an email to all the sponsored ED dealers on the Wiki. I informed them that I wanted to do ED with PCD and asked them to give me a quote for the car I wanted with all options, including dealer fees, etc. I specifically asked for the "out the door" price. I got two excellent quotes. I ended up paying $750 over invoice, plus tax and tag. Here is a picture of the spreadsheet I used, which I adapted from another forum post. Good luck!


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Thank you. That is what I am leaning toward right now. Performance Center delivery allows one to have more flexibility in the purchase plus I've told that the Performance Center Delivery is well worth while.


----------



## pagefault (Jul 23, 2009)

pharding said:


> No, absolutely not. Unless they mislabed the Lease Acquisition Fee. When I see stuff like that I look for another dealer that is trustworthy.


BMW corporate will only deliver to the dealership, if you aren't going to pick it up from the dealership (or do PCD), they would have to arrange re-(re-)delivery to your house. $850 seems high - I had a personal car transported cross-country for ~$600 - but that's within the ballpark for such services, especially if it has to travel far.

$750 for documentation seems right out, though.


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

pharding said:


> You should find out if the Euro Delivery M3 comes out of dealer allocation. Dealer profit numbers discussed here are based upon cars not coming out of dealer allocation. A generic BMW non-M3, i.e. a 535 in that price range should be doable for $800 to $1,000 dealer profit in my guestimation. You should post here, Bimmerfest 3 Series forum, e90post to find out what others have paid for a Euro Delivery M3.


I think you will find that Munich MSRP is about the best you can do on an M Series car. I could be wrong.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

I think that this is because they come out of dealer allocation, but I could be wrong.


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

rmorin49 said:


> I think you will find that Munich MSRP is about the best you can do on an M Series car. I could be wrong.


This is definitely incorrect. The M3 qualifies for ED discount since Feb of 2009. Because of that, it does not come out of dealer allocation and pricing is just as doable as any other non-M (ED invoice + $xxx). Check the M3 confidential wholesale price and you will see that ED invoice price is available, which was not the case prior to Feb 2009. Hope this helps.

I have a 2011 M3 with ED confirmed in May so I have all these info. If you are still in doubt, contact one of the ED specialist sponsors here.


----------



## Hoo (Jan 20, 2010)

I did speak with one of the board ED specialist sponsors--one whom had numerous very favorable reviews on the board. He said he would do Euro wholesale + $1,500. But then I'd have to get the car from Chicago to PA or could take delivery in Spartansburg and do the M track day at no additional charge--with free lodging and dinner for 2 people. My dealer will do ED wholesale + 2,000. Probably the easiest course of action is going with my dealer, considering I can get better service with free loaner/pickup for service (we live 40+miles away from dealer so this is a major deal).


----------



## luxun54 (Sep 24, 2005)

*PA to DC?*



Hoo said:


> I did speak with one of the board ED specialist sponsors--one whom had numerous very favorable reviews on the board. He said he would do Euro wholesale + $1,500. But then I'd have to get the car from Chicago to PA or could take delivery in Spartansburg and do the M track day at no additional charge--with free lodging and dinner for 2 people. My dealer will do ED wholesale + 2,000. Probably the easiest course of action is going with my dealer, considering I can get better service with free loaner/pickup for service (we live 40+miles away from dealer so this is a major deal).


If you are somewhere in PA near enough to get to DC-area, you may be able to do quite a bit better than that. As many on this board have suggested, you might try Joern Esser at Passport BMW.

AFAIK, dealer's service arrangements shouldn't depend on whether you buy from them or not?


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Dan Rykiel at BMW of Annapolis, MD will also work a nice ED deal for you. He is my current CA and doing a great job. I leave for Munich in 4 days.


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

luxun54 said:


> If you are somewhere in PA near enough to get to DC-area, you may be able to do quite a bit better than that. As many on this board have suggested, you might try Joern Esser at Passport BMW.
> 
> AFAIK, dealer's service arrangements shouldn't depend on whether you buy from them or not?


I believe loaner cars and pickup/delivery are at the discretion of each dealer.


----------



## Hoo (Jan 20, 2010)

*Loaner/delivery*

I don't think they are obligated to provide pickup and delivery and a new BMW loaner for a car that they did not sell. It is a major factor in my choosing a BMW--I would not want to drive over 40 miles to service the car. Our town has no local luxury dealerships other than Lincoln & Cadillac, but most of the brands--Mercedes, Lexus, & Audi have a dealer that provides that service. Infinity is an exception, and as a result I won't consider them--too big a hassle. Baltimore & Washington are 90 miles away--and none of the dealers will pickup/deliver.


----------



## luxun54 (Sep 24, 2005)

*Loaners*



luxun54 said:


> AFAIK, dealer's service arrangements shouldn't depend on whether you buy from them or not?





rmorin49 said:


> I believe loaner cars and pickup/delivery are at the discretion of each dealer.


 Since I have just agreed on June ED with a different dealer than where I usually get my car serviced, after reading the comments in this thread I checked with my BMW service location today. They confirmed that they do not handle servicing and loaners any differently whether you buy the car from their dealership or not.


----------



## 530i-2002 (Oct 8, 2007)

'Non-official' policy of most (or all) BMW dealerships in my area is they don't provide loaners unless you buy the car from them...


----------



## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

AFAIK most dealers provide loaner (BMW vehicles) if you purchased from the same location. Otherwise they'd give you rentals (non-BMW loaner).


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

luxun54 said:


> Since I have just agreed on June ED with a different dealer than where I usually get my car serviced, after reading the comments in this thread I checked with my BMW service location today. They confirmed that they do not handle servicing and loaners any differently whether you buy the car from their dealership or not.


You are very fortunate, most dealers aren't so cooperative.


----------



## luxun54 (Sep 24, 2005)

luxun54 said:


> Since I have just agreed on June ED with a different dealer than where I usually get my car serviced, after reading the comments in this thread I checked with my BMW service location today. They confirmed that they do not handle servicing and loaners any differently whether you buy the car from their dealership or not.





rmorin49 said:


> You are very fortunate, most dealers aren't so cooperative.





outie said:


> AFAIK most dealers provide loaner (BMW vehicles) if you purchased from the same location. Otherwise they'd give you rentals (non-BMW loaner).


To be clear, in over 10 years, I have NEVER gotten a BMW loaner, even though I bought all prior cars from them; they always use rentals from an on-site Enterprise location.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

All things being equal, I prefer to service my BMW where I purchased the car. When purchasing the car I always pursue a fair price with fair lease terms first and foremost. However I do not necessarily service my BMW where it is purchased. I only service it where the quality of service is high and I can get a BMW loaner. If I can't do both I go elsewhere. Anything is negotiable including BMW loaners. I have never had any issues with this approach over the last 9 years. BMW dealerships like to service BMW's regardless of where they are purchased.


----------



## 530i-2002 (Oct 8, 2007)

outie said:


> AFAIK most dealers provide loaner (BMW vehicles) if you purchased from the same location. Otherwise they'd give you rentals (non-BMW loaner).


Does not work that way around here...If you purchased your car from another dealership you get no loaner or rental...


----------

