# BMW dealership response to survey!



## Kryptonite1234 (Apr 6, 2009)

cwinter said:


> Out of curiosity, are you a service adviser?


No sir.

I work in warranty/booking.


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## cwinter (Feb 3, 2009)

Kryptonite1234 said:


> No sir.
> 
> I work in warranty/booking.


Alright, otherwise I may have PMed ya for some tips. I have yet to take my car to a BMW dealer for service but want to just be a nice friendly customer that walks out happy every time, but that seems to be near to impossible from some of the posts here. Of course, as with everything, complainers have more of an interest to post than people being happy. Attitude is everything though and I am looking at it positively, instead of assuming the SA is evil, a liar, and money hungry.


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## MrBones (Oct 26, 2007)

I think this whole survey nonsense just gives BMW a black eye. You pay for a luxury car, and deserve to be treated well by the dealership. If the service was problematic, you should be able to honestly reflect that, and they should attempt to rectify matters. Is there any other business that depends on well-heeled consumers to buy their expensive product, and when things go wrong can treat their customers like crap and still stay in business? I don't get it. Most high-end consumers are treated well.


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## ///M Rakete (Apr 1, 2002)

cwinter said:


> Alright, otherwise I may have PMed ya for some tips. I have yet to take my car to a BMW dealer for service but want to just be a nice friendly customer that walks out happy every time, but that seems to be near to impossible from some of the posts here. Of course, as with everything, complainers have more of an interest to post than people being happy. Attitude is everything though and I am looking at it positively, instead of assuming the SA is evil, a liar, and money hungry.


Just for clarity I love my SA, my CA, and the dealership in general. They always do right by me. However I will never send in a survey with anything other than a 5. Why? Because it is the point of contact (SA/CA) who takes the rap and not the tech or the back office.

I'm glad to hear that one poster's dealer has an enlightened view of survey and the results. That doesn't seem to be a widely shared perspective.


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## 1SCK530 (Apr 29, 2009)

Why do we still talk about this and complain like your the first person to be lied to by a Car salesman? You dont leave a dealership with out any promises written and signed. There are only a few stand up places to buy a car and thats probably less than a dozen nation wide. Would they let you take the car with just your word that you will send a payment each month? So why take a promise without it being in writting.


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## BMWDetroit (Jul 15, 2009)

MrBones said:


> I think this whole survey nonsense just gives BMW a black eye. You pay for a luxury car, and deserve to be treated well by the dealership. If the service was problematic, you should be able to honestly reflect that, and they should attempt to rectify matters. Is there any other business that depends on well-heeled consumers to buy their expensive product, and when things go wrong can treat their customers like crap and still stay in business? I don't get it. Most high-end consumers are treated well.


I agree with all this. But I think this really just boils down to a system that probably encourages higher survey scores, which make for nice advertising/promo material for BMW and their dealers.

I work as an IT manager for a pretty large company, and I deal with executives/bean counters on a daily basis. In IT, facts are what matters; you need to know what the real deal is to get your job done. This is not always the case with the bean counters. Some of them just want to drink the Kool Aid and they expect you to keep pouring.

In a roundabout way, I wonder if the confrontational element of the way BMW runs this survey business is a way of ensuring that the bean counters get the high numbers they want. If you're a customer and you're intimidated by the prospect of POing your CA or SA and getting treated so badly that you'll have to drive far away to find another dealer, it's easier to just give 5s than be honest.

Also, not everyone tries to do right by people when it comes to stuff like this. Some people are going to give crappy scores in a survey no matter how well they were treated. Also, each person has a unique definition of "excellence"; like a tough teacher who rarely gives As. But if the SA/CA makes this impassioned pitch to give 5s, it probably improves their score. If not by guilt, then by fear.


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## FDMeloan (Jan 17, 2005)

*Some Comments on the CSI survey*

Several years ago I worked part-time for a local BMW dealer helping to process the results of the CSI survey on a real time basis in the hope that problem areas could be identified immediately rather than waiting to the end of the month reports. While things could have changed since I was involved I don't have any indications that the basics have been changed.

My thoughts:

1. Your BMW dealer knows the vehicle and date of service involved in the survey within a couple of days of the survey so the dealer knows who to contact about the survey. There is no such thing as an anomynous survey.

2. Written comments on the survey form are not quantified in any way so they are really meaningless as only the scored questions count in the final survey score. Any question that is not scored is excluded from the final score for the survey.

3. Giving your dealer a 1 (the lowest score) on each question will probably not hurt your dealer's monthly CSI score as each dealer is allowed to delete 3% of the surveys prior to computation of the final monthly score for the dealership. (Note that this 3% may have changed but I doubt it.) Thus a dealer who has 500 surveys in a month is permitted to delete the 15 worst survey scores. This generally takes care of all the worst surveys. Thus if you want to hurt your dealer's CSI score you need to give them 2's or 3's on the survey questions. This results in a low survey score but not low enough to be deleted. It's been said in other posts but there are numerous ways for the dealer to make sure that a person who provides a low score won't get surveyed again. Transposing the digits in a telephone number is one way that it is done but there are many other ways as well for the creative person to design.

4. If you have had a bad service experience at a BMW dealer and are willing to take the time I always suggest that you consider giving the service advisor all 5's and then taking the survey to the person involved and reminding them that they didn't deserve the score that you gave them and thus they owe you a favor that you intend to collect upon in the future. My experience is that this approach has a positive impact on your next service visit.

5. Finally, a portion of the incentive money that each BMW dealer receives from BMWNA is based in part on their CSI score so a low score can ultimately affect your dealer's bank account. Having said that, it is my experience that even the dealers at the bottom of the national BMW CSI totem pole still find a way to get their CSI money from BMWNA. Thus I wonder if the CSI system really does any good. But then I think about what we might have to deal with if there was no CSI system. That's really scary.

My $0.02. YMMV

Fred Meloan


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## bobby13 (Jun 18, 2004)

There's only one answer to this problem, get a new dealer. You'll never be able to trust these guys, after all, they already lied to you about changing the RFs'


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## ducx3 (Mar 28, 2009)

FDMeloan said:


> Several years ago I worked part-time for a local BMW dealer helping to process the results of the CSI survey on a real time basis in the hope that problem areas could be identified immediately rather than waiting to the end of the month reports. While things could have changed since I was involved I don't have any indications that the basics have been changed.
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> ...


Very good information. Thanks.


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

FDMeloan said:


> 4. If you have had a bad service experience at a BMW dealer and are willing to take the time I always suggest that you consider giving the service advisor all 5's and then taking the survey to the person involved and reminding them that they didn't deserve the score that you gave them and thus they owe you a favor that you intend to collect upon in the future. My experience is that this approach has a positive impact on your next service visit.
> 
> Fred Meloan


Nice idea.


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## BMWDetroit (Jul 15, 2009)

FDMeloan said:


> Several years ago I worked part-time for a local BMW dealer helping to process the results of the CSI survey on a real time basis in the hope that problem areas could be identified immediately rather than waiting to the end of the month reports. While things could have changed since I was involved I don't have any indications that the basics have been changed.
> 
> My thoughts:
> 
> ...


Great information. Thanks!


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## bobby13 (Jun 18, 2004)

No matter what they do you'll never trust them. After all, they lied to you about taking the RFs back. Get yourself a new new dealer and enjoy the ride.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

@FDMeloan and others:

BMW just changed their CSI system this year and it is not like the prior survey system. 

The new Sales and Service surveys are much longer (up to 20 questions) and are basically Yes or No (pass or fail) vs. the old 1 through 5 system. For each question where you answer No, they will ask for your feedback. This survey still contains your contact info, but when you complain the dealership will get sent an alert and they have to resolve your issue to get proper credit. 

Basically, this is how it works:
1. you answer survey. if you say "no" to any of the questions, the manager of that department gets an email alert from the survey. 
2. the manager that gets the alert is supposed to contact you to identify and resolve your concern.
3. after it is resolved, the dealer goes into the CSI system and marks that your issue has been resolved. the survey will send you a follow up email that asks for confirmation that your issue has been resolved.
4. if you answer yes, the issue is closed and the dealer gets credit for resolving the issue. if not, the issue will remain marked "no"

The dealer still gets ranked on the percentage score based on how many Yes responses they get, but they also get scored on their "resolution rate" based on being able to address and fix their issues.


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## Snareman (Nov 24, 2006)

SARAFIL said:


> @FDMeloan and others:
> 
> BMW just changed their CSI system this year and it is not like the prior survey system.
> 
> ...


This at least sounds a little more fair and useful.


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## murtic528i (Jul 16, 2009)

TopDownInFL said:


> I would suggest setting up an appointment with the general manager - it's much easier to be mad and unhelpful over the phone to a person you can't see. Have the conversation in person to rectify this. It makes a world of difference.


agreed .... sry to hear about that man ...... idk where you live but united BMW here in GA was really nice to me with my E39. If you are anywhere in the area (atlanta) pm me i have a guy who does magic on bimmers and i only trust him with my baby


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## FDMeloan (Jan 17, 2005)

*Thanks "SARAFIL"*

SARAFIL:

Thanks for the update. Like I said it's been a few years since I worked for a dealer and my latest BMW is a 2002 so it's been quite a while since I was at an authorized BMW dealer for any service so I haven't received any surveys lately. Besides even and "oil & filter" costs 50% more at an authorized BMW dealer than it does at my favorite independent BMW shop.

Your description of the new survey process is encouraging. If anyone would post of copy of the latest survey form I would love to see it.

Can you tell us if the monthly dealer CSI incentive payment in the new system is still all or nothing? Under the previous system it was all or nothing which I always thought was wrong as I don't know many dealer personnel who wouldn't jump through hoops and do other kinds of tricks to make sure that they got their CSI money. For a large BMW dealer the monthly CSI related payment could be north of $100K and I don't think many dealers could stay in business if they missed that payment for a month or two. I have always felt that a graduated payment schedule based on the monthly CSI scores would be a much fairer approach to the incentive aspect of the system.

My $0.02. YMMV

Fred Meloan


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

FDMeloan said:


> SARAFIL:
> 
> Thanks for the update. Like I said it's been a few years since I worked for a dealer and my latest BMW is a 2002 so it's been quite a while since I was at an authorized BMW dealer for any service so I haven't received any surveys lately. Besides even and "oil & filter" costs 50% more at an authorized BMW dealer than it does at my favorite independent BMW shop.
> 
> ...


They changed over in January to a new system, and for the first 6 months of the year it was basically in limbo as BMWNA tried to set the benchmarks and get the bugs worked out of the system. They just started to implement a way to rank the dealers, so it's still fairly new. I'm not sure how they are using the new CSI information to determine eligibility for Added Value. I know that they are looking at the overall score, plus issue resolution percentage (explained above) as well as email capture percentage.


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## Evlengr (Feb 3, 2007)

Here is what the OP should have done:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring...outside-showroom--emblazoned-list-faults.html

I would.


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## xtremecruiser (Aug 16, 2008)

jvr826 said:


> BMWNA doesn't give a fuzzy rats ass about this customer or any other customer. They will blow sunshine up your butt like they do, but they do not care. Each dealer is an independently owned franchise, yada yada yada. BMW won't be coming on anything with a ton of bricks.
> 
> Loaner cars are a dealer specific offering. Some have a great fleet, others don't, it's not policy by any means, so the independent dealer can administer the loaner program any way they want.
> 
> OP has learned the hard way that you do not piss off the dealer with a bad survey result. It's a useless program that continues to exist for whatever reason.


Sad but true to all of the above


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## iove75 (Sep 10, 2004)

Evlengr said:


> Here is what the OP should have done:
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring...outside-showroom--emblazoned-list-faults.html
> 
> I would.


:rofl: Too bad there's no public parking directly in front of my dealer!


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