# Speed Control Cameras in German towns



## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

Heads up. Going through small town, or coming into a town, the speed limit is usually 50 kph. Even if it is not posted there the speed limit is 50 kph. There may be cameras to catch speeder coming into town. Unfortunately, I got flashed several times driving a rental. The authorities tracked the car to Europcar and then to me. I just got a demand to pay from Europcar for 9,50 euros, the first one . I assume Europcar will charge my credit card for the payment. This is just one of many flashed tickets I got in Germany. Additionally, I got 4 parking tickets in Budapest against the same rental car. Those parking authorities are on foot and they hand out the ticket immediately when the parking permit is overdue. Unfair!!!!! :yikes: Rather than allowing Europcar card blanc to pay for the speeding and parking tickets on my CC, I reported it lost. :rofl: I think it's a lesson learned to make sure that it 50 kph coming into a German town. 

PS. The letter reached me even though the address only had the city. No state and no country. :yikes:


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

What will reporting the credit card as lost do? The credit card companies know the old number and new number and, unless you contest the rental charge, they will simply pass the charge along from the old number to the new one.


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## vocalthought (May 5, 2008)

It's only 16 bucks, pay it.


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## chaz58 (Sep 11, 2007)

Yeah, Germany uses lots of speed cameras. I think this sign pretty well sums up the speed limits in Germany:


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

JSpira said:


> What will reporting the credit card as lost do? The credit card companies know the old number and new number and, unless you contest the rental charge, they will simply pass the charge along from the old number to the new one.


Not true. I am still liable for charges already posted, but no new charges can be made against the old CC. It's closed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any new charges will be REJECTED, not transferred. :thumbup:


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## lilskel (Jun 10, 2005)

Dave 330i said:


> Not true. I am still liable for charges already posted, but no new charges can be made against the old CC. It's closed!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any new charges will be REJECTED, not transferred. :thumbup:


He's right, but that's pretty lame for $16 and something you're guilty of

:thumbdwn:


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## MrBones (Oct 26, 2007)

it's 950 E, right? I didn't get any tix I know of on my June ED, but I just got back from Iceland and definitely got my picture taken going 70 in a 50 zone going into a town. It changed so quickly from 90-70-50. I hope the fine isn't too high. I was in a rental but I'm assuming they will track me, and my wife wants to go back next year!


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

lilskel said:


> He's right, but that's pretty lame for $16 and something you're guilty of
> 
> :thumbdwn:


You need to read the thread again. I was zapped many times, not knowing WTF was going on until my friend told me that coming into town is 50 kph. I suspect there will be more tickets coming my way. If it was only one, I would not report the CC for over 9,5 euros. Please tell me you're an angel in your whole life. You have never exceeded the speed limit, never avoided a fine. Here I am, warning you to watch your speed when you come into town and you're telling me I'm lame.


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## vocalthought (May 5, 2008)

Dude, don't mean to pop your bubble, but ignorance of Germany's traffic regulation is not an excuse. You are driving in that country aren't you?
How would you feel when you see a tourist blast past your local school zone at 80mph and claim total ignorance of your state and federal law?

I am not an angel who keeps to the speed limits everyday. Nobody drives at 65 here in the valley. But when I get caught, I pony up or go to traffic court. It's not called the LAW for nothing!!


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> Additionally, I got 4 parking tickets in Budapest against the same rental car. Those parking authorities are on foot and they hand out the ticket immediately when the parking permit is overdue. Unfair!!!!! :yikes: Rather than allowing Europcar card blanc to pay for the speeding and parking tickets on my CC, I reported it lost. :rofl: I think it's a lesson learned to make sure that it 50 kph coming into a German town.
> P:


You know I had to re-read your post to find out what bothered me. It is your attitude visiting a foreign country but not being man enough to stand to your mistakes.
So, getting a parking ticket is unfair because parking authorities are on foot??? And reporting your CC as lost lets you "roll on the floor". 
Do me a favor and stay away from Europe...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I truly do not believe that the OP will get away scot free here. After all, as he pointed out, mail addressed to him without even a complete address reached him quite easily. 

My experience with cancelling lost credit cards has taught me that some charges (which the credit card company sees as legitimate, if they know the vendor) do get thru (which in my case was a good thing, since I wasn't trying to defraud anyone). But YMMV.


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

Dave 330i said:


> Heads up.
> PS. The letter reached me even though the address only had the city. No state and no country. :yikes:


This letter only charges the handling fees of the car rental co. (9,50 EUR)

The offense itself is not even mentioned here.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Dave 330i said:


> You need to read the thread again. I was zapped many times, not knowing WTF was going on until my friend told me that coming into town is 50 kph. I suspect there will be more tickets coming my way. If it was only one, I would not report the CC for over 9,5 euros. Please tell me you're an angel in your whole life. You have never exceeded the speed limit, never avoided a fine. Here I am, warning you to watch your speed when you come into town and you're telling me I'm lame.


You are missing the point. Somewhere on this forum there is a thread that discusses THE NEED TO KNOW THE LAWS AND DRIVING REGULATIONS. Why were you suprised by the lower limit? Did you not think that parking limits would be enforced? So you commit a fraud and tell the credit company the card is lost, so you can avoid the fines for personal stupidity. Pay the fines, then pass along the experience as a lesson to others on the forum so they will not make the same expensive mistakes. My camera ticket in Switzerland cost $360 for 12 kph over the limit you got off cheap.


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

M FUNF said:


> You are missing the point. Somewhere on this forum there is a thread that discusses THE NEED TO KNOW THE LAWS AND DRIVING REGULATIONS. Why were you suprised by the lower limit? Did you not think that parking limits would be enforced? So you commit a fraud and tell the credit company the card is lost, so you can avoid the fines for personal stupidity. Pay the fines, then pass along the experience as a lesson to others on the forum so they will not make the same expensive mistakes.


:thumbup:


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

Legitimate charges will be passed on to the new card once the CC company sorts them out, I know this from experience. With your attitude I hope they are.


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## chaz58 (Sep 11, 2007)

+1



m funf said:


> you are missing the point. Somewhere on this forum there is a thread that discusses the need to know the laws and driving regulations. Why were you suprised by the lower limit? Did you not think that parking limits would be enforced? So you commit a fraud and tell the credit company the card is lost, so you can avoid the fines for personal stupidity. Pay the fines, then pass along the experience as a lesson to others on the forum so they will not make the same expensive mistakes. My camera ticket in switzerland cost $360 for 12 kph over the limit you got off cheap.


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

M FUNF said:


> You are missing the point. Somewhere on this forum there is a thread that discusses THE NEED TO KNOW THE LAWS AND DRIVING REGULATIONS. Why were you suprised by the lower limit? Did you not think that parking limits would be enforced? So you commit a fraud and tell the credit company the card is lost, so you can avoid the fines for personal stupidity. Pay the fines, then pass along the experience as a lesson to others on the forum so they will not make the same expensive mistakes. My camera ticket in Switzerland cost $360 for 12 kph over the limit you got off cheap.





Alfred G said:


> :thumbup:





chaz58 said:


> +1


This will encourage the OP to do the opposite.
Read his signature:


Swim upstream. 
Go the other way. 
Ignore the conventional wisdom. 
If everybody is doing it one way, there's a good chance you can find your niche by going exactly in the opposite direction


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## vocalthought (May 5, 2008)

OP probably copied his signature from one of those Apple ads... "Think Different"


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## x986 (Oct 27, 2006)

"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." - - - However, while I deplore his scofflaw attitude, I thank him for the reminder about entering towns.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

x986 said:


> "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." - - - However, while I deplore his scofflaw attitude, I thank him for the reminder about entering towns.


Where is the due process? Even in Germany there is the reason of innocent until proven guilty. I will not give Europcar cart blanc to pay any tickets on demand. I don't think any of you will either. I'm protected by the laws of the USA.


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## smithtravel (Nov 11, 2006)

In case anyone else is looking to bust through speed limits, here are the speed limits for 5 different European countries (in a town, outside of a town, and on the Autobahn) unless posted otherwise:

Germany: 50/100/130 
Switzerland: 50/80/120 
Austria: 50/100/130
Italy: 50/90/130
France: 50/90/130

For me the hardest was Switzerland. After being at 130 everywhere else and unlimited in parts of Germany, going 120 seemed really slow.


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## bimmerguy288 (Feb 28, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> Thanks for coming to the rescue. They're just a little jealous that I found an easy way of getting out of a potential mess. The old CC canceled. The new one activated. I can sleep well at night now.


I am no angel but I would pay the fine. If I had done something like that, I wouldn't have bragged about it in a forum like this. Reminds me of people who get those buy one get one free DVD deals, then return one of the DVDs to the store for store credit for what they paid, and keep the other one. Some of them also brag about their "strategy" in public forums to show how "smart" they are.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

bimmerguy288 said:


> I am no angel but I would pay the fine. If I had done something like that, I wouldn't have bragged about it in a forum like this. Reminds me of people who get those buy one get one free DVD deals, then return one of the DVDs to the store for store credit for what they paid, and keep the other one. Some of them also brag about their "strategy" in public forums to show how "smart" they are.


OK, you're right. The brag may have annoyed and offended some. My apology for being unethical. :eeps: :angel:


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

smithtravel said:


> In case anyone else is looking to bust through speed limits, here are the speed limits for 5 different European countries (in a town, outside of a town, and on the Autobahn) unless posted otherwise:
> 
> Germany: 50/100/130
> Switzerland: 50/80/120
> ...


Good info, but I think the amusing part of this thread is the idea that these speed limits were a surpirse or withheld form the driving public. The limits are posted pretty much everywhere. I cruised through the small towns, raced through country roads, and screamed down the autobahn following a simple rule: DON'T GO FASTER THAN THE LOCALS. I'm no angel either. On one particular day on some rural two lane roads, I followed the sport bikes averaging 180-200kph, BUT if I was alone, I made sure to follow the posted limits. I'd even pull over to let the locals pass me, letting a Golf, or some other box, lead the way at 140-150kph until the next town. Tunnel entrances, the introduction of reduced speed limits, and city limits are likely locations for cameras. Google Earth was helpful in letting know if a city was camera dense when planning the next day's drive. I didn't trip any cameras, but they were plain as day just like the cameras here in the states. Sudden brake lights almost always meant there was a camera ahead. I'd also pay the fines, since they may come back to haunt you later, new credit card or not.


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> OK, you're right. The brag may have annoyed and offended some. My apology for being unethical. :eeps: :angel:


You know, Dave, I am really annoyed by your attitude.

But I am pretty sure you won't get away with it. After all you have a contract with your rental company that makes YOU liable to pay traffic fines.
If you cancel your Credit Card the means how they get their money might get more difficult (and therfore more expensive for you). But if it is not only a really small amount (which I doubt in your case) then they will go after you.

In simple terms: Not your Credit Card is liable to pay the dues, you are! 
And I am sure you are not contemplating canceling yourself :tsk:


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

Dave 330i said:


> Rather than allowing Europcar card blanc to pay for the speeding and parking tickets on my CC, I reported it lost. :rofl:


Turns out a friend of mine from Universität is a Vorstandsmitglied (=senior executive) at Europcar and I saw him at a meeting yesterday and asked him to look at this thread.

He pointed out that, since the OP posted his customer information it was an easy matter to track him - plus what he wrote in his post demonstrated an intent to deliberately defraud (=Betrug) Europcar. He indicated that this action, which is a crime in Germany as it is in most countries, would make the matter far more serious. He also said he´ll let me know what comes out of their Untersuchung (=investigation).


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## bimmerguy288 (Feb 28, 2006)

Alfred G said:


> Turns out a friend of mine from Universität is a Vorstandsmitglied (=senior executive) at Europcar and I saw him at a meeting yesterday and asked him to look at this thread.
> 
> He pointed out that, since the OP posted his customer information it was an easy matter to track him - plus what he wrote in his post demonstrated an intent to deliberately defraud (=Betrug) Europcar. He indicated that this action, which is a crime in Germany as it is in most countries, would make the matter far more serious. He also said he´ll let me know what comes out of their Untersuchung (=investigation).


See, Dave, I said if I had done something like that, I wouldn't have bragged about it in a public forum. I would have kept it to myself because it's not really something I can be proud of.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

bimmerguy288 said:


> See, Dave, I said if I had done something like that, I wouldn't have bragged about it in a public forum. I would have kept it to myself because it's not really something I can be proud of.


:rofl: Someone went out of his way to make an issue of this. Let me see if this executive's going to spend his resources to nail me. Good luck. If you read the posted letter in German, there is NO DEMAND to pay. It just said there is some pending fine, and that I will hear from the authorities. Some of you guys have gone overboard. I have not done anything illegal. Those who don't understand German, get the letter translated. Again, THERE IS NO DEMAND TO PAY.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

: popcorn:


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

Did y'all notice the location of Alfred G.? Does it sound familiar?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

ProRail said:


> Did y'all notice the location of Alfred G.? Does it sound familiar?


Ja, I hear he's doing tours with Rolf. :rofl:


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## smithtravel (Nov 11, 2006)

dunderhi said:


> Good info, but I think the amusing part of this thread is the idea that these speed limits were a surpirse or withheld form the driving public. The limits are posted pretty much everywhere. I cruised through the small towns, raced through country roads, and screamed down the autobahn following a simple rule: DON'T GO FASTER THAN THE LOCALS. I'm no angel either. On one particular day on some rural two lane roads, I followed the sport bikes averaging 180-200kph, BUT if I was alone, I made sure to follow the posted limits. I'd even pull over to let the locals pass me, letting a Golf, or some other box, lead the way at 140-150kph until the next town. Tunnel entrances, the introduction of reduced speed limits, and city limits are likely locations for cameras. Google Earth was helpful in letting know if a city was camera dense when planning the next day's drive. I didn't trip any cameras, but they were plain as day just like the cameras here in the states. Sudden brake lights almost always meant there was a camera ahead. I'd also pay the fines, since they may come back to haunt you later, new credit card or not.


My method exactly. Followed the speed laws or at least allowed a local to lead the way. No problem at all.


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## vocalthought (May 5, 2008)

Dave 330i said:


> :rofl: Someone went out of his way to make an issue of this. Let me see if this executive's going to spend his resources to nail me. Good luck. If you read the posted letter in German, there is NO DEMAND to pay. It just said there is some pending fine, and that I will hear from the authorities. Some of you guys have gone overboard. I have not done anything illegal. Those who don't understand German, get the letter translated. Again, THERE IS NO DEMAND TO PAY.


Dave,

This is how people end up in court TV!!!:tsk:

Seriously, I wonder what the statute of limitation is in Germany. Your name might be flagged at immigration and you might have problem with your next ED. :thumbdwn:


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> :rofl: If you read the posted letter in German, there is NO DEMAND to pay. It just said there is some pending fine, and that I will hear from the authorities. Some of you guys have gone overboard. I have not done anything illegal. Those who don't understand German, get the letter translated. Again, THERE IS NO DEMAND TO PAY.


I guess that you do not understand that the letter you received so far just bills you for Europcar's effort to find / release your name to the respective German agency ("zuständige Behörde") responsible to manage traffic violations / fines. It is not a ticket nor a fine.

Then you write "there is no demand to pay". Not sure what you mean with demand, but the invoice you posted is just that, an invoice asking you to pay within 7 days. It is written in perfect polite business German. In case they decide to go after you (which I doubt because of the small amount of less than 10 Euros) expect to get some stronger worded letters.

Besides of that, depending on the kind of violation you committed, expect actions from the German agency (Behörde).

Look, many people here are trying to help you. Take this advice: If you plan to go to the EU within the next couple of years you better keep your record clean. And either fight the fines or just pay them. Don't try silly tricks.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

He thought the 9,50 € was the fine? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> I just got a demand to pay from Europcar for 9,50 euros, the first one . I assume Europcar will charge my credit card for the payment. *This is just one of many flashed tickets I got in Germany.*


Yes, it seems to me that he thinks the €9,50 is the first fine.
Thinking about it, the OP also recommends that others should translate the letter before they state their opinion. Sounds like good advice, especially for the OP himself.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Ja, you are right.

Technically speaking, I didn't really _translate_ the letter - I just read it :angel: But that seemed to suffice.


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

JSpira said:


> Ja, I hear he's doing tours with Rolf. :rofl:


Exactly. This is Rolf _(man in the middle) _and me and our Fahrer on the left.


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## Gran Turismo (Aug 7, 2006)

Dave 330i said:


> Those who don't understand German, get the letter translated. Again, THERE IS NO DEMAND TO PAY.


:tsk:

I happen to understand some German and I come to a different conclusion. The relevant sentence starts with "Bitte überweisen Sie den Betrag..." And the following sentence says that a debt collection agency has already been involved with your case.

And all those here who thought after reading this thread that (fixed) speed cameras would exist in towns *only*  might want to risk a glimpse at this site http://www.scdb.info/ and especially on http://www.scdb.info/en/software-karte/


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Gran Turismo said:


> I happen to understand some German


Meinst du das, oder sagst du das nur so ? Hallo Gran, schön, daß du uns besuchst.



Gran Turismo said:


> I happen to understand some German and I come to a different conclusion. The relevant sentence starts with "Bitte überweisen Sie den Betrag..." And the following sentence says that a debt collection agency has already been involved with your case.


And the other letter is from the agency they use and states ,,Wir bitten um Überweisung innerhalb von 7 Tagen``


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