# Any BMW owners go to a VW GTI?



## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

If anyone's gone from a BMW to a late (Mk6 or 7) VW GTI......what are your impressions? Is it a step one can make?

I went from our BMWs to a Mazda3; have concluded that was a mistake. Wondering if it's worth it to take the hit on depreciation and jump ship and perhaps save what's left of my driving soul, or just do the financially prudent thing and grind on.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

I've had two GTIs over the years. MK4 and MK5. I've also driven the MK6 and recently was able to put some miles on the MK7 (not GTI though) model. I really want another GTI or MK7 R as a DD in the future. 

Is there anything specific you want to know? Happy to help!

The Mazda3 and Golf are the top 2 in their segment... hands down. The 3 has better reliability and MPGs, but you have to put up with flimsy build quality and poor ride. The MK7 Golf feels like a more expensive product. The interior fit/finish feels better than the F30. It is built like a tank and is a nicer place to be in. It is so much quieter on the road and doesn't crash over rough pavement like the 3 does.

Hell, you don't even have to go as far as the GTI trim anymore. VW has finally gotten their act together and you can get a "regular" Golf with leather/xenons/PDC, etc. The EA888 1.8T is an amazing power plant. Torquey, quiet and takes regular gas. I've seen near 40-mpg highway in a rental MK7 Golf 1.8T.

Heads up, I would wait until MY16 if you're going with a Golf. VW is upgrading their infotainment system to support CarPlay/Android Auto. MY15 models aren't compatible. 

As a former BMW owner, I really think you would appreciate the German touches of the VW.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

AutoUnion said:


> I've had two GTIs over the years. MK4 and MK5. I've also driven the MK6 and recently was able to put some miles on the MK7 (not GTI though) model. I really want another GTI or MK7 R as a DD in the future.
> 
> Is there anything specific you want to know? Happy to help!
> 
> ...


This good to hear. I went from a BMW to the Mazda3 BM last August and since then I'm progressively disliked the Mazda more and more. I'd done everything possible to ensure a happy experience: planned 6 months in advance, did 3 test drives, the car was ordered exactly the way I wanted it, and I put ContiSportContact5 summer tires on it at delivery, which improved the grip but not the chassis/suspension. The beauty is really skin deep on the Mazda and the relationship got really bad last weekend when I toasted the brakes down hustling with verve down a very fun road. Doesn't help my quality/durability perception when half the car has parts made in China. I could on about the annoyances with the Mazda3 but I will spare you all the laundry list.

I miss the solidity and quality feel of the suspension and interior and it seems the VW Golf/GTI has that. Is it quiet for long-haul drives? My commute is short but I usually do day-trips on weekends so 400km in one day is normal for me. Are there any weak links or annoyances on the newer GTIs you feel? If you had to do it again, what would you change about the car and would you buy it again?

I'm in a unique situation where I think I can change cars without a huge financial burden. I'll be working out of Germany the 2nd half of this year, so if I got rid of the Mazda, I would be able to go 6 months without insurance and car payments. And given I put 30k+ km/annually, folks have told me it is better to cut my losses now instead of waiting longer as I rack up even more kms.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

AzNMpower32 said:


> Doesn't help my quality/durability perception when half the car has parts made in China. I could on about the annoyances with the Mazda3 but I will spare you all the laundry list.


I understand where you're coming from. Mazdas are notorious for cheap sheetmetal and they've been having rust problems in the Northeast. That is ridiculous for a brand in 2015.

Couple that with poor resale, I'm not a big fan, but I can see why people would buy a Mazda, especially the 6. They drive well and feel light, but, of course, the downside to that is exactly what you're saying. The whole car feels cheap.



> I miss the solidity and quality feel of the suspension and interior and it seems the VW Golf/GTI has that. *Is it quiet for long-haul drives?*


Very quiet. The recent MK7 1.8T I drove was almost as quiet as my BMW on the highway. They pipe in exhaust noise on the GTI, but you can remove the pipe. It's not as exhausting as the equivalent Mazda on long-hauls.



> My commute is short but I usually do day-trips on weekends so 400km in one day is normal for me.


Long trips are exactly what these cars seem to be built for. The MK7 feels solid on the road and even the base seats are comfortable. Might I suggest the TDI Golf to you?

Haven't tried out the new GTI seats, but my MK5 had great leather seats up front. Never had problems on long hauls.

I love the dual personality Golfs have. You can pile the miles on the highway during the week. Take it on the backroads during the weekends and actually enjoy yourself. The 3 is fun on the backroads and a headache for everything else.



> Are there any weak links or annoyances on the newer GTIs you feel? If you had to do it again, what would you change about the car and would you buy it again?


The biggest issue with the MK5 was that VW would de-content the US cars. No adjustable suspension, LSD, PDC, upgraded audio, power seats, auto climate, USB support, etc.

Now they offer most (if not all) the European technology in the Golf/GTI. Bi-Xenons, power seats, dual zone climate, adjustable suspension. And if you get the GTI, they offer the Performance Package that gives you the LSD, upgraded brakes, and 10 more HP.

If I had to go back... yes I would buy the GTI again. It had no competition at that point. Now Ford has the Focus ST (nightmare interior) and others. The Golf would be the *only* car I would consider.

The only issues I have with the MK7 Golf are the price (Golf R is $40k+), the looks of the lower trims with the 15inch wheels/Halogens (it needs larger wheels, Bi-Xenons), the lack of LED tails (Europe gets them), and the lack of "nice" gearboxes on the 1.8T models. VW sells them with a 5MT and 6AT. The other models get the 6MT and DSG.



> I'm in a unique situation where I think I can change cars without a huge financial burden. I'll be working out of Germany the 2nd half of this year, so if I got rid of the Mazda, I would be able to go 6 months without insurance and car payments. And given I put 30k+ km/annually, folks have told me it is better to cut my losses now instead of waiting longer as I rack up even more kms.


Works out perfectly! You could wait until the 2016 models come out with the upgrades.

Have you considered other options, like the new Mini Cooper 4 door?


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

AutoUnion said:


> Works out perfectly! You could wait until the 2016 models come out with the upgrades.
> 
> Have you considered other options, like the new Mini Cooper 4 door?


Yes, I did, especially after my surprisingly positive 3-day rental experience with the base Mini Cooper 1,5 litre 3-door in Montréal during the frigid month of February. Man, that car was fun in spite of the -24°C weather and other flaws! Was zipping up and down autoroutes.....it even fit my skis well. Alas, the 5-door version seems to be too short to fit my DH bike between the front seats and the bootlid even with the wheels off.

I wanted the Golf TDI 3 years ago but held off waiting for VW to get the Puebla plant retooled for the MQB architecture; VW took so damn long that I got the Mazda. The Mk7 TDI for North America lost the sport suspension, sport seats, and rear independent suspension (and the EPB, but that's all Golfs except the R) which made the Mk6 appealing to me. I would still consider the Mk7 TDI but if I'm looking for more "fizz" and _Fahrspaß_ perhaps the GTI is the way to go. The latter still meets my efficiency requirements (maximum 7,2 l/100km combined ECE cycle and 160 g/km CO²).

I'd love another BMW but no wagons are in my price range and the X1 is ageing, though I spent a week with a xDrive18d in DE/FR last summer.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

I went from my E46 330Ci to a MKV R32. I loved it 10x more than the BMW. I had it on every track in So Cal and even took it to Laguna Seca. It was much more engaging than the E46.

I say you should jump ship. There are sooo many good cars out now, don't limit yourself.

.


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## Paul335i (Aug 18, 2012)

I have a 2015 GTI with an APR stage 1 tune and Magnaflow exhaust. The car's quality and options are a bargain. I'm getting close to 300 whp. The car's is faster than my 335i was and the quality is equal if not better than the BMW.
Drive a new GTI and you'll buy one. Better yet, wait for the new Golf R. More HP and AWD.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

I decided I'll do it. Sell the Mazda before I go overseas, have a few months to wait it out without any car expenses and a refund of registration and taxes.

I'm not big into tuning because I don't see the need for more power. The GTI, even my current Mazda has more than enough power to get me into trouble, as in, flying off a mountain. Mods will generally only consist of items needed to bring the vehicle mostly compliant with ECE-safety standards. Plus, fuel consumption is important to me; I am hoping the GTI will do no worse than 7,5 l/100km (31,3 US mpg) on the autoroutes. Too bad no Stop-start automatic (meaning I'll manually turn it off at every long stop).

Chassis balance and composure in the bends is the priority for me. No suspension mods either though; it needs to come good from the factory (plus I drive on forest roads on occasion). Folks tell me the bi-xenon headlamps are quite good on high beam; this was another huge annoyance for me in the Mazda since the bi-xenons are WEAK (and I live in the country).


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

AzNMpower32 said:


> If anyone's gone from a BMW to a late (Mk6 or 7) VW GTI......what are your impressions? Is it a step one can make?


Well, I went to a relative of the GTI...










Love the car. It's a very livable car on the street, and very capable at the track.

(edit: I was up at Thunderhill last weekend with the Audi Club)


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

I wish I could afford a Golf R......:yummy:


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## Saintor (Dec 14, 2002)

A Golf R is no competitor to even a 320i... still a glorified econobox that you'll want to upgrade sooner or later.


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## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

AzNMpower32 said:


> I wish I could afford a Golf R......:yummy:


I owned a VW R32 in Taiwan back when they had the V6 in them. Was a great and wonderful car. The front end though did feel a bit heavy due to the weight of the front engine. I reckon with the new lighter 4 Cylinder engine up front it should be much nicer. Was a great city car and fun to drive in the rain.

At $40K though you could get a 128i or 228i BMW for that price which also gets good gas mileage. If you want economy for fuel efficiency on long road trips I would just buy the 2.0 TDI Golf which should be great for safety,comfort and fuel economy.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

stylinexpat said:


> I owned a VW R32 in Taiwan back when they had the V6 in them. Was a great and wonderful car. The front end though did feel a bit heavy due to the weight of the front engine. I reckon with the new lighter 4 Cylinder engine up front it should be much nicer. Was a great city car and fun to drive in the rain.
> 
> At $40K though you could get a 128i or 228i BMW for that price which also gets good gas mileage. If you want economy for fuel efficiency on long road trips I would just buy the 2.0 TDI Golf which should be great for safety,comfort and fuel economy.


I have autocrossed a 228i and I have autocrossed the R. The R is a bit less luxury and a lot more fast. The R is faster around a track and at the autocross than my substantially modified 330Ci. The only mod I have made to the R so far is wheels and tires, and I am still learning to be fast in it.

There are 2 things I don't like about the R: the navigation and the front camber. The former is pretty bad and if a potential buyer can wait until the 2016 models come out, with USB ports and carplay/android auto support, they would probably be well served. The car also needs more negative camber for track use, but Integrated Engineering has camber plates in the works.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Guys, the only choice for me is the 2016 Golf GTI, provided I don't manage to stay in Germany beyond the 6 months (crossing my fingers, hopefully I will be able to transfer there long-term). My car must be a hatch; the convenience for putting 2 or 3 DH bikes in the back simply with the wheels off is why. BMWs drive better but the only thing that's appealing to me is a 3er diesel touring and thats a lot more than I can afford. I realise front-drive hot hatches are inherently front heavy but the suspension setup will be better than the Mazda, which lacks the engineering expected from a 30 k$ vehicle.

The actual purchase will be well into 2016 model year; I have not even left for my German assignment yet. Hopefully the ACC that is promised for Canada will make its way down to the US; I'm leaning heavily towards the base version with Performance package but if the option packaging is flexible enough, I'd spring for it.

I don't track my cars; a 45 $ session at the karting track will suffice. That's the accountant in me 

I used to want a TDI but now for North America, it no longer comes with sport suspension (or independent rear suspension) or sport seats. If I want more spice than the current Mazda, I don't think a TDI is the way to go.


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

AzNMpower32 said:


> Guys, the only choice for me is the 2016 Golf GTI, provided I don't manage to stay in Germany beyond the 6 months (crossing my fingers, hopefully I will be able to transfer there long-term). My car must be a hatch; the convenience for putting 2 or 3 DH bikes in the back simply with the wheels off is why. BMWs drive better but the only thing that's appealing to me is a 3er diesel touring and thats a lot more than I can afford. I realise front-drive hot hatches are inherently front heavy but the suspension setup will be better than the Mazda, which lacks the engineering expected from a 30 k$ vehicle.
> 
> The actual purchase will be well into 2016 model year; I have not even left for my German assignment yet. Hopefully the ACC that is promised for Canada will make its way down to the US; I'm leaning heavily towards the base version with Performance package but if the option packaging is flexible enough, I'd spring for it.
> 
> ...


3 bikes will be an unlikely fit unless you stack them up on each other, and you won't be able to fit 3 riders and 3 bikes unless someone wants to ride on the roof. It's a hatchback, not an SUV. I have not yet tried to see if my road bike will fit in the back. IMO the performance package is worth getting since it comes with a limited slip diff, bigger brake rotors, and another 10 hp.

FWIW, since the engine is transversely mounted, the manual transmission will have cable linkage rather than direct mechanical linkage. I am kind of spoiled in that regard with my BMW since it is a direct mechanical link that I have (IMO) improved upon with a SSK and dual shear selector rod. My R has DSG, since that is all that is available at this time, and I am pleased with it. I test drove manual and DSG GTI's prior to leaving a deposit on the R. I liked them both.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Cliff said:


> 3 bikes will be an unlikely fit unless you stack them up on each other, and you won't be able to fit 3 riders and 3 bikes unless someone wants to ride on the roof. It's a hatchback, not an SUV. I have not yet tried to see if my road bike will fit in the back. IMO the performance package is worth getting since it comes with a limited slip diff, bigger brake rotors, and another 10 hp.


Oh, we shuttle trails for DH, basically a combination of leaving/moving cars/people at the bottom or the top and driving another car to get that person back with the group. Lift access is preferred but not always possible during the off-season. Last time a friend and I stacked both our bikes in the back with front wheels off, just watch where the pedals/cranks are and it's fine. :angel:


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Cliff said:


> My R has DSG, since that is all that is available at this time, and I am pleased with it. I test drove manual and DSG GTI's prior to leaving a deposit on the R. I liked them both.


I really need to go out and drive the MK7 GTI and R. I've only driven the 1.8T Golf.

I tried emailing my local dealer about a Golf R they have and it's strictly no test-drives, unless I put a deposit down.

Apparently, my Porsche dealer has no problem letting me take out a $90k Macan Turbo for the night, but I can't even drive an R around the block unless I'm ready to put money down :rofl:


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

I think there is enough demand versus limited supply for the Golf R that dealers don't feel compelled to let people test drive one.

I was mildly pissed that years ago, the Ford dealer did a credit check for me to test drive the Focus ST. It isn't that good a car to require a credit check


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## Cliff (Apr 19, 2002)

AutoUnion said:


> I really need to go out and drive the MK7 GTI and R. I've only driven the 1.8T Golf.
> 
> I tried emailing my local dealer about a Golf R they have and it's strictly no test-drives, unless I put a deposit down.
> 
> Apparently, my Porsche dealer has no problem letting me take out a $90k Macan Turbo for the night, but I can't even drive an R around the block unless I'm ready to put money down :rofl:


I doubt that the dealer has one that isn't a customer sold order (edit: unless maybe it's a pre-order car that someone walked away from and to which the dealer has now tacked on a huge market adjustment). You might want to see if the local Audi dealer will let you test drive an S3. It's essentially the same car as the R, but in a sedan form, and with a 150 pound higher curb weight.

While the R is a halo car for the VW dealer, the S3 is an entry level performance car for the Audi dealer. The dealer local to me, who is not particularly large, usually has several S3's in their inventory.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

Saintor said:


> A Golf R is no competitor to even a 320i... still a glorified econobox that you'll want to upgrade sooner or later.


Methinks you have the cars reversed. The 320 = Camry.

This - ladies and gentlemen, is how BMW continues to sell milquetoast cars to an unsuspecting public. "Its a BMW....so is HAS to be good".

.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

C'mon, knock off the personal comments.

Geez.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Another thought came up today while driving through the mountains:

How is the chassis feel? One thing I enjoyed about our BMWs (the E83 and E90 ZSP) was how focused everything felt, even when pushed extremely hard. Off-camber hairpins on 11% gradient, mid-corner undulations, decreasing radius corners.....these are all present where I live. Yet the BMWs seem to just shrug them off, absorb the occasional ham-fisted driving ("oh god I overcooked this corner").

How is the GTI in this regard? I read things like "doesn't handle like 60% of the weight is over the front wheels" but what are your perspectives?

In the Mazda, situations like the above can get messy.....really rattles driver confidence and unfortunately I've started to compensate for the shortcomings in my driving (for example, braking earlier than needed in a bid to avoid the excess weight shift).


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

I leased a 2013 VW GTI after driving 4 BMW's (three 3 Series sedans and a 545i).

The GTI was a fun car, but the wheel spin when accelerating from rest, got old pretty fast.

Also, disliked the wind noise and various rattling noises.

Glad to be back in a BMW RWD vehicle. Quiet and well-built.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Assuming I go back to the US, I think I will do European delivery on a 228i.

I live 19km from Wolfsburg right now for my job, and perhaps my flip-flop on the GTI might be slightly political, but really, I'm not a huge fan of this part of Germany. The VW cars remind me of the characteristic of this region too much.....I won't elaborate because that would take 2 paragraphs.

Did I mention everyone in my town drives a VW product? lol. I don't look twice at the Golf R Variants, Audi RS line of cars anymore.....everyone has one.


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## supakimchee (Jul 9, 2015)

I used to own a '07 Mazdaspeed 3. I swapped cars with my friend for a few months because he liked my car so much, and he drove an MK6 GTI. 

One thing I will give credit to Mazda for, is that when they "Mazdaspeed" a car, they don't mess around. The power was brutal, like they shouldn't have put that much power in a FWD hatch, but surprisingly, the torque steer was manageable with the LSD. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing I loved about that car. The interior looked like it was designed by a 12 year-old import fan, the build quality was suspect, and hitting a pothole made you feel like you on a wood pallet with wheels...wood wheels. That car was uncompromising in every way. You wanna go/turn fast? You're going to have to live with uncomfortable.

Once I drove the MK6, I instantly regretted not test driving one before I got the Mazda. I'll call the outside a wash, but the interior and ride quality was not even close. I loved having a moon roof, I loved that I didn't notice hitting a pothole once in a while, and even those quirky plaid seats were starting to grow on me. It wasn't as loud/fast/quick as the Mazda, but it was way more comfortable, and it felt much more refined and expensive.

Go with the GTI. I drove a 228i recently and I would take a GTI over one of those in a heartbeat.


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

AzNMpower32 said:


> Assuming I go back to the US, I think I will do European delivery on a 228i.
> 
> I live 19km from Wolfsburg right now for my job, and perhaps my flip-flop on the GTI might be slightly political, but really, I'm not a huge fan of this part of Germany. The VW cars remind me of the characteristic of this region too much.....I won't elaborate because that would take 2 paragraphs.
> 
> Did I mention everyone in my town drives a VW product? lol. I don't look twice at the Golf R Variants, Audi RS line of cars anymore.....everyone has one.


What's wrong with 120d if you decide to stay in Germany? Get it while it is still RWD ...

If you DO come back to the States, I strongly, strongly suggest to wait at least 3 months before making a decision. You get used to actual driving and want more agile and more powerful car, but the reality here is that you cannot drive. Or, better, very, very rarely the occasion to actually drive presents itself here.

I kept my E92 and bought MkVI Golf TDI for DD duties. Golf is a much better car everywhere and for everything except for driving on reasonably deserted roads with corners and elevation changes plus going to the racetrack. How would GTI do in those conditions? I don't know. I drove my friend's MkVI GTI on those same roads when we swap cars for fun and ... still not there. E92 N55 with PPK and open windows is just on a different plane as a whole experience. If you would just concentrate on V-Box numbers, I'm pretty sure GTI can hold its own. Unfortunately, driving is so much more than numbers ...


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