# Audi S4 info



## Hercules (Jul 15, 2002)

Still with Audi.... AWD :thumbdwn: 

If they had a RWD S4 with a better rear suspension then the M3 would have something to worry about.

But right now, it's still easy sailin for all the BMWs in every class, every price range. They may be more expensive but damn... aren't they worth it? 

Audi needs a weightloss program and a RWD implementation then I can consider them as a 'sports car'. Audi wants to have their cake and eat it too with a sports car.... can't have it both ways.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Hercules said:


> *Still with Audi.... AWD :thumbdwn:
> 
> If they had a RWD S4 with a better rear suspension then the M3 would have something to worry about.
> 
> ...


Sure you can. Do what I'm going to do. Get an S4. And keep the M3 convertible.

When it's time to say goodbye to the GTI, the S4 is likely the car that will replace it. AWD gives all-weather mobility, and there's simply nothing like a V8.

Will it beat an M3, either in a straight line or in the corner? Probably not, but then again, Audi's strategy with the previous generation S4 was to bracket the M3 with the S4 on the low end and the RS4 on the high end. I'd be surprised if an RS4 weren't forthcoming shortly. Besides, the Audi has something the BMW doesn't: 4 doors. In a practical, second car, that's an absolute must.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Not to mention a practical ONLY car.


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## Hercules (Jul 15, 2002)

JST said:


> *
> 
> Sure you can. Do what I'm going to do. Get an S4. And keep the M3 convertible.
> 
> ...


RS4 is not coming to the states, and also it's Avant format only. The M3 is just about tied with its speed, however Top Gear did a review (UK) and they weren't happy with it, but they thoroughly enjoyed its power.

The gearchange sucked and it understeered a lot as per the reviewer. "I want to have more fun... but I can't!" were his lines


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

http://www.audiworld.com/news/02/new_s4/s4specs.html


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## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

Hercules said:


> *
> RS4 is not coming to the states, and also it's Avant format only. The M3 is just about tied with its speed, however Top Gear did a review (UK) and they weren't happy with it, but they thoroughly enjoyed its power.
> 
> The gearchange sucked and it understeered a lot as per the reviewer. "I want to have more fun... but I can't!" were his lines  *


Not everyone drives like Tiff Needhall....which seems to be sideways most of the time


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

When is this S4 coming to the US ? 

I don't see it mentioned in the article (though I skimmed it pretty quickly)


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## DougDogs (Dec 26, 2001)

Alan F said:


> *When is this S4 coming to the US ?
> 
> I don't see it mentioned in the article (though I skimmed it pretty quickly) *


Autoweek said begining (jan,feb) 03 ......but the autoweek article appeared many months ago, so that date may have changed by now


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *I like the new A4's styling, but I don't think it's as sporty or aggressive as it should be in S trim. My money's still on the M3, particularly if they release a 4-door variant in the near future. And heck...with Audi bringing this beast to market, I don't see what BMW's waiting for. This is quickly turning into the German version of the "Camaro vs. Mustang" rivalry that turned out some KILLER cars over the years. *


Odds are there will not be an E46 M3 sedan, no matter how many of us might be interested.

And we're almost guaranteed an S4 Avant, which is what I want.

I've already got the trackable family car. Now add a slightly larger AWD wagon that, while probably too heavy and a bit more numb than ideal will still outperform 99% of the vehicles on the road, and you have my perfect second car. And you can haul stuff and actually get somwhere in the occasional local snow. Perfect.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Holden said:


> *
> 
> Odds are there will not be an E46 M3 sedan, no matter how many of us might be interested.
> 
> ...


$55,000 (reportedly) seems a little steep though


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> $55,000 (reportedly) seems a little steep though *


Ah, but wait until the first model year cars get to be 2-3 years old...

As I've said, from a value perspective, I doubt I am ever going to buy another new car. I'd likely be able to pick one up in 2005 for around $40K (if it indeed ends up being $55K new).


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Holden said:


> *
> 
> Odds are there will not be an E46 M3 sedan, no matter how many of us might be interested.
> 
> ...


I'd have to look very closely before going with an A4 or 3 wagon. IIRC, the hatch area is too small to haul a 50-pound dog comfortably, which means it goes to the back seat...which means I can't haul four humans with the dog. Which isn't a problem now, but I'm sure will be in a few years. For my own needs, I think I need an entry-level SUV or A6/5 wagon. An S4 Avant would be fun, sure, but I don't think it's practical enough to be a true family car.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

I like that they are using a V8 now, better than TT-V6. I prefer N/A when possible. But, I think the old S4 was more agressive looking.

I don't think I would take an M3 over it though. It will likely be even heavier (possibly 400+) and won't be nearly as balanced (Audis never are). Could be nice for those who want a fast wagon though.

But, if it is going to be $55K new, I wonder what BMW will do for the 545iT. Should be about the same....


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> I'd have to look very closely before going with an A4 or 3 wagon. IIRC, the hatch area is too small to haul a 50-pound dog comfortably, which means it goes to the back seat...which means I can't haul four humans with the dog. Which isn't a problem now, but I'm sure will be in a few years. For my own needs, I think I need an entry-level SUV or A6/5 wagon. An S4 Avant would be fun, sure, but I don't think it's practical enough to be a true family car. *


Come on. I'm using an E36 SEDAN as a family car. No one needs a friggen SUV because they have a kid and a dog. A wagon will do just fine. If the S4 isn't big enough, get a Saab 9-5 or Volvo something. But, please, don't get an SUV. The world does not need any more lemmings.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> I'd have to look very closely before going with an A4 or 3 wagon. IIRC, the hatch area is too small to haul a 50-pound dog comfortably, which means it goes to the back seat...which means I can't haul four humans with the dog. Which isn't a problem now, but I'm sure will be in a few years. For my own needs, I think I need an entry-level SUV or A6/5 wagon. An S4 Avant would be fun, sure, but I don't think it's practical enough to be a true family car. *


I've had two German Shepherds in the back of mine. They were comfortable enough for two hours.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Holden said:


> *
> 
> Come on. I'm using an E36 SEDAN as a family car. No one needs a friggen SUV because they have a kid and a dog. A wagon will do just fine. If the S4 isn't big enough, get a Saab 9-5 or Volvo something. But, please, don't get an SUV. The world does not need any more lemmings. *


You put two kids in the bag seat, then throw the dog next to them and see what happens.  I don't have two kids yet, but that's the plan.

Volvo wagons have crossed my mind, but SUVs do have their place. And if I decide to pick up a well used vehicle at some point, I'd rather have a domestic model to keep repair/maintenance costs relatively low.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *
> 
> I've had two German Shepherds in the back of mine. They were comfortable enough for two hours.  *


Wow, guess it's bigger back there than I thought. But I bet there wasn't much room for a suitcase next to those doggies, eh?


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> You put two kids in the bag seat, then throw the dog next to them and see what happens.  I don't have two kids yet, but that's the plan.
> 
> Volvo wagons have crossed my mind, but SUVs do have their place. And if I decide to pick up a well used vehicle at some point, I'd rather have a domestic model to keep repair/maintenance costs relatively low. *


My parents have a V70 2.4T. As a trip car, it's hard to imagine a much better choice. The interior is flat out gorgeous, the seats are extraordinarily comfortable, and the turbo five has good power and excellent fuel economy. The boxy back end offers plenty of storage space, too. The steering is a bit numb, and the suspension settings have no "sport" in them, but as long as you adjust your attitude (think "cruise," rather than "drive") the Volvo is great.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *
> 
> Wow, guess it's bigger back there than I thought. But I bet there wasn't much room for a suitcase next to those doggies, eh? *


Heh, nope. But if you were careful, you could do a suitcase and one dog. You also getg a lot more usable space when you take out the net/cover thingy.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Jetfire said:


> *Volvo wagons have crossed my mind, but SUVs do have their place.*


Planning to tow a lot, are you? Or are the potholes that bad in VA that you need the clearence?

The "place" for SUVs is not suburban (note lower case "s") people hauling.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> *I think the Avant looks better than the sedan.
> 
> Too bad I'm extremely residual aware hence my strong aversion to things that suck on resale (Like wagons or Saabs or the worst Saab wagons) and my attraction to things that sell almost at list price after a few years. (Like X5's)
> 
> ...


Damn you. I had been too lazy to follow the link. That wagon is gorgeous.

I know where I'm going Saturday morning.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Here you go LaZy Boy! Mmmm, mmm, good!

I know the Audi nuts were freaking about the black things at the bottom of the doors, but I don't mind them so much. Those S4 boys are just as bad as Bimmerphiles when it comes to replacement models.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Damn you. I had been too lazy to follow the link. That wagon is gorgeous.
> 
> I know where I'm going Saturday morning. *


where?

you realize this car won't hit our shores until Fall of 2003 right?


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> where?
> 
> you realize this car won't hit our shores until Fall of 2003 right? *


Isn't it obvious... he's going to the Paris auto show. He's dieing to see the new Cayenne! :lmao: 

Actually... I thought someone posted they would be here in Jan/Feb??


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> where?
> 
> you realize this car won't hit our shores until Fall of 2003 right? *


Who's in a hurry?

Damn, I just remembered that I won't let myself buy one new.

:banghead:

I hate being conflicted...


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Who's in a hurry?
> 
> ...


hey, in 3 years, it could be yours

(until E60 M5 touring rumours surface)


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> hey, in 3 years, it could be yours *


One thing, this is the first new vehicle to come along in a while that I actually think I really would like to own.

That's a big step for me.


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> One thing, this is the first new vehicle to come along in a while that I actually think I really would like to own.
> 
> That's a big step for me. *


Nah . . . this car isn't good for you . . . it's only good for us guys who could appreciate the refinement of a Newly designed car.

It's not nearly raw enough for you . . .


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

Alan F said:


> *
> 
> Nah . . . this car isn't good for you . . . it's only good for us guys who could appreciate the refinement of a Newly designed car.
> 
> It's not nearly raw enough for you . . . *


:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> One thing, this is the first new vehicle to come along in a while that I actually think I really would like to own.
> 
> That's a big step for me. *


Finally recovered from your 330i debacle?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> *
> 
> Finally recovered from your 330i debacle? *


what 330i debacle?


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> what 330i debacle? *


I was just referring to the 330i that he bought which sent him screaming in horror away from the E46 and into the open arms of his E36 M3. He's mentioned once or twice the loss he took on it. I thought that "debacle" would be a fun way of summarizing


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> *
> 
> I was just referring to the 330i that he bought which sent him screaming in horror away from the E46 and into the open arms of his E36 M3. He's mentioned once or twice the loss he took on it. I thought that "debacle" would be a fun way of summarizing  *


brother, you thought I was being serious


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: *


I knew you'd like that one :lmao: :lmao:


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> One thing, this is the first new vehicle to come along in a while that I actually think I really would like to own.
> 
> That's a big step for me. *


Not to worry... when it comes out laden with techno-crap that you eschew like DBW and has zero soul and feel to it... the reality will set in. Until then, enjoy obsessing about it.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

JPinTO said:


> *
> 
> Not to worry... when it comes out laden with techno-crap that you eschew like DBW and has zero soul and feel to it... the reality will set in. Until then, enjoy obsessing about it. *


not to mention tiptronic only for the U.S. B6 S4 avant :eeps: :eeps: :eeps:

it could happen


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> *
> 
> I was just referring to the 330i that he bought which sent him screaming in horror away from the E46 and into the open arms of his E36 M3. He's mentioned once or twice the loss he took on it. I thought that "debacle" would be a fun way of summarizing  *


Actually, really, there is no loss.

I exchanged it for another car. Very little money (<$500 ) traded hands. I now have a different car that is worth roughly what the 330i would be worth today. Maybe in a few years, the M3 might even be worth more than the 330i would be worth.

The only loss was in the difference between what I paid new, out the door, and a reasonable valuation of the car I traded it for. But that's first year depreciation for you.

Everyone on this board (who actually has a car) has a car that is worth significantly less than they paid for it. Have they taken a loss on it? No.

Sematics? Maybe.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2002)

JPinTO said:


> *
> 
> Not to worry... when it comes out laden with techno-crap that you eschew like DBW and has zero soul and feel to it... the reality will set in. Until then, enjoy obsessing about it. *


No obsessing here.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> not to mention tiptronic only for the U.S. B6 S4 avant :eeps: :eeps: :eeps:
> 
> it could happen *


Huh?? No 6-speed? WHat about the Sedan?


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

TD said:


> *Sematics? Maybe. *


See nail. Hit with hammer.

What maybe?


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2002)

LSB said:


> *
> 
> Call ME crazy, but I find pivoting my right foot for gas/brake easier than two legs for clutch/gas/brake.
> 
> Been driving (mainly) a stick for about 16 years now, I think I've gotten the hang of it. *


Ah. My point.

When I'm in traffic, it's one foot on one pedal, more or less. I merely modulate the clutch. No brake at all and very infrequent gas. Still, my feet stay put rather than having my right foot bounce between pedals. Plus, the gas/brake of a slushie is much more physically disturbing that the mild pul of a modulated clutch. There isn't really a STOP and go to driving in heavy traffic with a stick. Just a slow roll and slower roll.


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Ah. My point.
> 
> When I'm in traffic, it's one foot on one pedal, more or less. I merely modulate the clutch. No brake at all and very infrequent gas. Still, my feet stay put rather than having my right foot bounce between pedals. Plus, the gas/brake of a slushie is much more physically disturbing that the mild pul of a modulated clutch. There isn't really a STOP and go to driving in heavy traffic with a stick. Just a slow roll and slower roll. *


Maybe our difference is in cities....we have the slow roll and slower roll.....but we also have the slower roll----->stop. Clutch has to go in at that point. If I give myself enough room to keep the slow roll, somebody just jumps right ahead of me and I'm back to square one....bastards


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> I'll jump ship, that's for sure.
> 
> ...


The ingorance in this post is astounding. You obiously do not want to believe the reality of sequential transmissions, that they are involving, do not behave like real automatics in automatic mode. I suppose the SMG-only CSL will be just for Georgetown latte sippers, right?

Saying that it is a "technically advanced automatic" is just a blatant misrepresentation of the facts, I think you know better.

Have a nice swim...


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> The ingorance in this post is astounding. You obiously do not want to believe the reality of sequential transmissions, that they are involving, do not behave like real automatics in automatic mode. I suppose the SMG-only CSL will be just for Georgetown latte sippers, right?
> 
> ...


Dammit Nate, as a user, it doesn't matter to me HOW (technically) it does what it does. All that matters is how it affects me as the user. (Granted, many enthusiasts ARE interested in the "how", but that's a different discussion.)

As for HOW it's used, it's used just like a steptronic. Indicate (with the lever or paddles) that you want a shift, it shifts. Or pop it into auto-mode. Sure, neither mode behaves exactly the same between the two systems, but an SMG is MUCH closer in behavior to a step than it is a traditional manual tranny w/clutch pedal.

Don't give me that BS about rev-matching and super-fast shifts. 99% of the buyers don't know what the first one is and couldn't care less about the second. And that's the truth.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 99% of the buyers don't know what the first one is and couldn't care less about the second. And that's the truth. *


haven't we been through this before?

99% isn't anywhere NEAR "the truth"


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

I've been thinking about Jetfire's camera analogy, and while I think it's good, I think it misses the mark. The clutch, and the skill it takes to master it, is a big part of driving a stick, and is fun in a way that focusing a camera isn't. 

Perhaps a better analogy is this: Comparing SMG to a normal manual is like comparing a motorcycle to a road bicycle. The fact that the motorcycle is faster, easier to use, and more technologically advanced, for some people, completely misses the point.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Dammit Nate, as a user, it doesn't matter to me HOW (technically) it does what it does. All that matters is how it affects me as the user. (Granted, many enthusiasts ARE interested in the "how", but that's a different discussion.)
> 
> ...


Again, another misrepresentation. SMG is a manual transmission.

Don't like it, fine. Don't buy it. But don't call it something that it isn't. That's just lame :thumbdwn:

And, I don't understand how rev-matches and fast shifts don't matter. That was the goal of sequential tranmssions. I care.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Again, another misrepresentation. SMG is a manual transmission.
> 
> Don't like it, fine. Don't buy it. But don't call it something that it isn't. That's just lame :thumbdwn: *


It is no more or less manual than a steptronic. Period.

It does not have a torque converter. That is it's only similarity to a traditional "manual" tranny. In operation, it is the same as a steptronic. And it *can* be operated without user intervention, just like a torque converter automatic, albeit not as smoothly.

Again, it is no more or less manual than a steptronic. Period.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

sorry to interrupt...

Here are some interesting quotes from autoweek about the new S4.

"optional seven-speed Tiptronic automatic"

and

"Much of the S4's chassis development was carried out on the Nürburgring in a move Audi claims will see it go one better dynamically than the Mercedes-Benz C32 AMG and BMW M3. "

link

http://www.autoweek.com/search/sear...232&Search_Type=STD&Search_ID=594814&record=8


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

JST said:


> *I've been thinking about Jetfire's camera analogy, and while I think it's good, I think it misses the mark. The clutch, and the skill it takes to master it, is a big part of driving a stick, and is fun in a way that focusing a camera isn't.
> 
> Perhaps a better analogy is this: Comparing SMG to a normal manual is like comparing a motorcycle to a road bicycle. The fact that the motorcycle is faster, easier to use, and more technologically advanced, for some people, completely misses the point. *


Yeah, I alluded to the "fun factor" bit. I think the argument works out something like this:

-The proponents basically say "to hell with the clutch pedal, SMG is better at using the clutch than your left leg will ever be. The clutch pedal is just a means to an end."

-The opponents say "I like using the clutch pedal, and it offers things that a computer-operated clutch can't. The clutch pedal is as important to me as the gas."

And as for whether SMG is an automatic, or a manual - it's just a war of semantics. Call it an automatic because it can change gears for you, call it a manual because it uses a clutch, call it Bob because it doesn't really fit into either category. You're going to find as many opions as assholes, and you know what they say about assholes. Whether it's technically, one, the other, or neither, should have no impact on your decision. That's like buying a BMW because it's a BMW, not because it's a great car.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> It is no more or less manual than a steptronic. Period.
> 
> ...


Again, another misrepresentation.

I don't think you understand the shifting process at all with any transmission. Peiod.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Again, another misrepresentation.
> 
> I don't think you understand the shifting process at all with any transmission. Peiod. *


You are completely missing my point.

How you USE SMG is INDENTICAL to how you USE Steptronic. Period.

What goes on unseen is vastly different. But the interface is very similar (and with Alpina Vince's help, virtually identical).

The working definition of "manual" is "do it yourself" versus "automatic" meaning "the machine does it for you".

SMG is an "automatic" transmission.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

I think it's clear that TD is jealous that a certain amount of "poseurs" are getting to enjoy the full ///M car experience while he is stuck with a watered-down-for-the-American-consumer version.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

nate328Ci said:


> *
> 
> Again, another misrepresentation.
> 
> I don't think you understand the shifting process at all with any transmission. Peiod. *


LOL, the ribbing is totally getting out of hand here.

From the driver's perspective, I can see TD's point. Theoretically the driver can just hold down the gas pedal and go. And, theoretically, the driver could also just flip a lever up or down to make the car switch gears. As far as the act of moving a lever and pushing pedals goes, the operation is not far from current Steptronic operation - particularly if one installs the M3 steering wheel with the SMG paddles.

But behind the scenes, SMG is nothing like a Step. No TC, no soft/liquidy lag between shifts, no weird creeping forward when you let off the brake at a stop sign, etc. I guess, if you insist on classifying this damn thing, you could say it can be automatic in operation, but it is manual in execution.

I still believe that SMG is far more engaging to the driver than people think. When you shift in a Step, you push that lever up and wait. And wait. Then you feel a little surge as the gears change. With SMG, supposedly, you push the lever and -boom- you're there, just like in a conventional stick.

Blah, I predict that my efforts to keep this from turning into a flame war are going to fail. I'm gonna go shut up on this topic until I drive an SMG-equipped car for a good hour or two.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2002)

atyclb said:


> *I think it's clear that TD is jealous that a certain amount of "poseurs" are getting to enjoy the full ///M car experience while he is stuck with a watered-down-for-the-American-consumer version. *


ATYCLB-

There is no reason to take an invalid cheap shot at me and my car.

I am making the point that SMG is an "automatic" tansmission. Hell, you've argued that point yourself. Don't make me pull up a post. The search function here works well.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> You are completely missing my point.
> 
> ...


So, the interface is very different. Do you know anything about SMG? Different automatic modes, different manual modes?

So, USEING YOUR LOGIC it is also a manual, correct? You can shift it manually. Pull the lever or pull the knob and it shifts and stays there until you tell it to leave.

So, what whould you call the Ferrari F1 system on the Enzo? It has no automatic shift program.

Your description of it as being just a high-tech steptronic is a egregious misrepresentaion.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *I think it's clear that TD is jealous that a certain amount of "poseurs" are getting to enjoy the full ///M car experience while he is stuck with a watered-down-for-the-American-consumer version. *


Don't forget how many came with torque converters


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> ATYCLB-
> 
> ...


TD that was CLEARLY not a serious post given what I have posted here (as you obviously remember).

Not to mention the 

overly defensive, are we???

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

don't miss this one---->->->


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2002)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> TD that was CLEARLY not a serious post given what I have posted here (as you obviously remember).
> 
> ...


Cool.

But for Nate's sake- http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8127&highlight=automatic


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

You guys are arguing just for the sake of it. SMG is both a manual and an automatic at the same time...depending on how you look at it. It's a hybrid.

For my part... after 18 years of stick *ONLY* driving, I for one would like to try an SMG tranny before I spend another 3 years endlessly clutching and declutching with a rubbery, indistinct BMW clutch. 

I don't know if all BMW clutches are like this one, but the E46's clutch sucks.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

JPinTO said:


> *
> I don't know if all BMW clutches are like this one, but the E46's clutch sucks. *


my E46 clutch feels great

:angel:


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## DougDogs (Dec 26, 2001)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Alan F 
When is this S4 coming to the US ? 

I don't see it mentioned in the article (though I skimmed it pretty quickly) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Autoweek said begining (jan,feb) 03 ......but the autoweek article appeared many months ago, so that date may have changed by now



trying to bring this back to topic, I was wrong about release date. Today's autoweek says we wont see it here in US until 2004 model year


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *I think it's clear that TD is jealous that a certain amount of "poseurs" are getting to enjoy the full ///M car experience while he is stuck with a watered-down-for-the-American-consumer version. *


:lmao:

PS: I'm not trying to argue or whatever here. Just thought ATYCLB's quote was well thought out and damn funny... :lmao:


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2002)

ALEX325i said:


> *
> 
> :lmao:
> 
> PS: I'm not trying to argue or whatever here. Just thought ATYCLB's quote was well thought out and damn funny... :lmao: *


ALEX325i showing himself to be the troll some of us always knew he was.

Nice selective reading, BTW.


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> ALEX325i showing himself to be the troll some of us always knew he was.
> 
> Nice selective reading, BTW. *


How's it going TD? Hope all is well. Glad to see some things never change...

"Troll"? "Some"? OK... Oh, don't forget to send "Adrian" my best regards...

As for the selective post, I swear (really) it was just coincidence. I would've lmao even if he was quoting somebody else (honest) - hence the PS...


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2002)

ALEX325i said:


> *
> 
> How's it going TD? Hope all is well. Glad some things never change...
> 
> ...


Reading Comprehension 101-

atyclb posted just down the thread the obvious admission that he was JOKING when he posted what you quoted. That's the "selective part" I was referring to.

Your insistence on being hostile is truly tiring. Enough is enough already. :thumbdwn:


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## ALEX325i (Dec 19, 2001)

TD said:


> *
> 
> Reading Comprehension 101-
> 
> ...


Hmmm... To me that's uh, "sequential" reading... Saw his post later. You know, can't guess people's posts...

Sorry for being hostile. As I said, not my intention. But hey, you've got a thick skin. :thumbup:


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## shahin (Feb 23, 2002)

Hey leave ,TD alone! I mean, the guy owns an e46 m3 with SMG and hes able to make an educated classifation of SMG being an automatic transmission. Its not like hes some jealous retard who likes to **** with people in order to boost his monkey ass ego.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2002)

shahin said:


> *Hey leave ,TD alone! I mean, the guy owns an e46 m3 with SMG and hes able to make an educated classifation of SMG being an automatic transmission. Its not like hes some jealous retard who likes to **** with people in order to boost his monkey ass ego. *


I love how th epeanut gallery comes ou tof the woodwork when there's a chance to take unwarranted cheap shots at me.

How is my opinion flame-worthy and everyone else's legit? They're all just opinions. Quit getting so damn worked up over mine.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Flame wars are to Internet like flies are to cowpies. :tsk:

At least we're willing to make a stand and sort out our differences. It got ugly when someone else started to make personal accusations. Guys, we're here to discuss CARS - not throw punches. If you can't stay in a heated debate without resorting to name calling, then stay the hell out.


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## shahin (Feb 23, 2002)

Hey im just here to have fun and make fun.


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## Guest (Sep 23, 2002)

shahin said:


> *Hey im just here to have fun and make fun. *


Oh, your posts are a laugh a minute... :flipoff:


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## Nebr330xi (Dec 20, 2001)

*4-Door Power*

QUOTE from above: Not to mention a practical ONLY car.

Amen. I can't afford multiple cars and I like having the rear doors for guests, friends, and family. I want a car that drives like a sports car when I'm alone and like a family car when necessary. A four-door M3 would be sweet in an Xi model and the new S4 fills that slot. Unfortunately, I don't care for Audi reliability; nothing but disappointments in my experience.

I've also read that the next-gen 3-series will have M3-class power, iDrive, etc. Dunno if that's true, but it would be cool in four doors.  I'm thinking of taking a close look at the 530xi for the 2005 MY. Dunno, what's BMW's track record for a new gen car in the first two years?


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