# Consumer Reports asks - Do You Really Need AWD in the Snow?



## Rick D (Jul 15, 2014)

I was born and lived on Oregon for 56 years... Made my living in outside sales ( drove a lot) and consider myself a very good driver.. I drove in the snow ALOT for business going over the passes ( big mountains ), and many times snow skiing ( non business)..... I had 4 wheel drive trucks, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive , so I feel I have had a lot of inclimate weather driving experience in MANY different types of vehicles..

A company I worked for supplied us with Subaru's for our company vehicle... Truly was shocked at how good this vehicle was in the snow.. I preferred driving it to the brand new Chevy Silverado 4 wheel drive in my garage when I knew I would encounter snow... Again, I have driven MANY different types of vehicles in bad weather and was surprised at the comfort and easy driving the Subaru was in poor weather conditions, be it ice or snow.... I had to really cross up the car to make is act poorly in the ice or snow... 

Guess I am trying to say that YES, AWD makes a HUGE difference...


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## DjD-X5 (Nov 4, 2015)

motoguy128 said:


> I think your missing the point. The point is that AWD doesn't help you stop or turn. That is what's most critical in almost every accident. Pretty rare you can power out of an accident AND that be your only option for avoidance. AWD really only provide s a significant advantage on steep inclines, racing in the snow, and very deep, unplowed snow. Otherwise, powering 2 wheels (well 1 really) is adequate.
> 
> What's interesting, but I bet if winter tires were made mandatory, municipalities could almost stop using road salt, just plow along with using some sand and you'd same money on chemicals, save money on labor, DRAMATIACLLY save on infrastructure costs, all the while reducing accidents. Chemicals would only be needed for pedestrian areas.


So can you explain how AWD benefits "racing in the snow" but doesn't benefit regular driving in the snow?

FWD can be a benefit when turning in the snow, guess what? AWD's get that same benefit! Can't say this enough, without snow/winter tires AWD has the advantage over 2WD without snow/winter tires.


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## AWDDiesel (Sep 26, 2015)

Doug Huffman said:


> You do know that half of the drivers here are below average, half of all drivers are below average, half of every population are below average.


Well, technically this statement is only true of the median


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## AWDDiesel (Sep 26, 2015)

Rick D said:


> I was born and lived on Oregon for 56 years... Made my living in outside sales ( drove a lot) and consider myself a very good driver.. I drove in the snow ALOT for business going over the passes ( big mountains ), and many times snow skiing ( non business)..... I had 4 wheel drive trucks, front wheel drive, rear wheel drive , so I feel I have had a lot of inclimate weather driving experience in MANY different types of vehicles..
> 
> A company I worked for supplied us with Subaru's for our company vehicle... Truly was shocked at how good this vehicle was in the snow.. I preferred driving it to the brand new Chevy Silverado 4 wheel drive in my garage when I knew I would encounter snow... Again, I have driven MANY different types of vehicles in bad weather and was surprised at the comfort and easy driving the Subaru was in poor weather conditions, be it ice or snow.... I had to really cross up the car to make is act poorly in the ice or snow...
> 
> Guess I am trying to say that YES, AWD makes a HUGE difference...


And of course what you meant is Subaru AWD makes a huge difference. See link. Too bad they didn't test xdrive. And too bad they didn't do this with snows on as well.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

DjD-X5 said:


> So can you explain how AWD benefits "racing in the snow" but doesn't benefit regular driving in the snow?
> 
> FWD can be a benefit when turning in the snow, guess what? AWD's get that same benefit! Can't say this enough, without snow/winter tires AWD has the advantage over 2WD without snow/winter tires.


You're arguing a point no one's making; of course AWD minus winter tires is "better" in the snow than a RWD car without winter tires, but both BENEFIT greatly from winter tires, and the AWD benefits most because it can then do what it's designed to do best - drive through snow.

CR isn't a shill for the tire companies, it's a "consumer" magazine, it's even titled "CONSUMERS report" ... :dunno: They buy products with their own money - nothing is given to them, so they can be as fair and impartial as possible - however, like all human beings, they're prone to bias, so you take their opinions along with many others and you form a "consensus" - this is how it works.

You live in San Jose, but out here in New England, snow can be a very serious matter - it's simply stupid and cheap to drive around without winter tires on any car; FWD, RWD, or AWD. It's a small additional cost to one's overall driving budget and it can save your life as well as the lives of others.


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## JimH46 (Sep 27, 2013)

motoguy128 said:


> Further, over the years I've probably thrown away $1000 worth of usable tires life because it was "too worn" for winter use. Now I can run my summer or all season tires down to a slightly lower level without worrying about how they will handle in winter. So long as there's enough tread for driving in the rain.


Good point. If you consider the all the costs of both your summer tires/wheels and winter tires/wheels over a long enough period, the net cost difference is essentially zero. The disadvantage is the twice a year changeover.


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## motoguy128 (Jul 28, 2015)

DjD-X5 said:


> So can you explain how AWD benefits "racing in the snow" but doesn't benefit regular driving in the snow?
> 
> FWD can be a benefit when turning in the snow, guess what? AWD's get that same benefit! Can't say this enough, without snow/winter tires AWD has the advantage over 2WD without snow/winter tires.


In regular driving, slightly slower acceleration out of a corner isn't a safety issue, actually, somewhat of the opposite. In racing, you need all the traction you can get power exceeds tire grip.

IF AWD added no weight, didn't impact weight distribution negatively, added no more complexity or cost, it would be awesome. But it has a limited value unless you live somewhere with steep hills and poor snow removal.

I'm not saying here's no benefit at all, just that the trade offs the other 300 days a year (in most climates) aren't worth it. I also think it takes some of the "FUN" out of a sports car. Same way an automatic does. Yes, I have an automatic. The many compromises weren't acceptable.

I think AWD system using hybrid electric drives are a better option since all the added weight provides a secondary benefit of economy, precise torque vectoring with grater mechanical simplicity. (no driveshafts and transfer cases)


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## DjD-X5 (Nov 4, 2015)

EdCT said:


> You're arguing a point no one's making; of course AWD minus winter tires is "better" in the snow than a RWD car without winter tires, but both BENEFIT greatly from winter tires, and the AWD benefits most because it can then do what it's designed to do best - drive through snow.
> 
> CR isn't a shill for the tire companies, it's a "consumer" magazine, it's even titled "CONSUMERS report" ... :dunno: They buy products with their own money - nothing is given to them, so they can be as fair and impartial as possible - however, like all human beings, they're prone to bias, so you take their opinions along with many others and you form a "consensus" - this is how it works.
> 
> You live in San Jose, but out here in New England, snow can be a very serious matter - it's simply stupid and cheap to drive around without winter tires on any car; FWD, RWD, or AWD. It's a small additional cost to one's overall driving budget and it can save your life as well as the lives of others.


Really? that whole video says AWD not worth it, buy Winter tires instead... Several opinions posted in this thread seem to be in agreement with that as well. I'm not poo-pooing winter tires, I think I've stated that already. I am against sensationalizing to get your point across though. The video wouldn't be as entertaining but it would be more informing if CR just stuck to the facts instead of trying to make AWD look inept in proving their point!


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## motoguy128 (Jul 28, 2015)

People often only respond to sensationalism. Facts and details just confuse them. 

the message they are trying to get across, is that AWD does nothing to keep you safer, which normally involves cornering and braking. It only provides greater ability to accelerate or keep form getting stuck.

I bet if you surveyed drivers 80%+ think that AWD helps them corner and 50% believe it somehow improve braking as well. Just as most believe a heavier vehicle will always be better in the snow. In fact it's a function of size of the contact patch and wheel width relative to the vehicle weight. Heavy vehicles have fairly narrow tires proportional to their weight. The newer style tires on semis that replace the "dualies" are still only 380-430mm wide, but typically carry 10,000lbs each! Even a heavily loaded 1 ton pick-up only has 2000lb on each tire. a heavier midszed SUV, just 1000lbs.


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## JimH46 (Sep 27, 2013)

motoguy128 said:


> IF AWD added no weight, didn't impact weight distribution negatively, added no more complexity or cost, it would be awesome. But it has a limited value unless you live somewhere with steep hills and poor snow removal.
> 
> I'm not saying here's no benefit at all, just that the trade offs the other 300 days a year (in most climates) aren't worth it. I also think it takes some of the "FUN" out of a sports car. Same way an automatic does. Yes, I have an automatic. The many compromises weren't acceptable.


If you are comparing RWD vs AWD I guess I agree. But not if you are comparing FWD and AWD. I've owned all three at some point over the years. Here in the northeast I wouldn't own a RWD car again. FWD is fine, but less than optimal for higher powered cars. While the car manufacturers have gotten better at reducing torque steer in FWD cars, AWD is still my preference even on dry roads.


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## davidl428xGC (Sep 12, 2015)

I agree with EdCT - if you plan on keeping the car long term having the extra set of tires will delay the inevitable purchase of replacement all seasons anyway.


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