# 04 VW R32 versus 00 VW GTI 1.8T



## JonM (Jan 28, 2002)

There are incentives on VW .:R32s now. My dealer has 3 on her lot. 1 is red and I want it.

My 00 GTI 1.8T has 53K miles. It has performed flawlessly, no accidents, it is nicely modded, and I love it. It was made in Germany, not Brazil or Mexico. I own it outright.

Is it nuts to consider trading in a perfectly good car (my GTI) for another very similar car(glorified GTI)? I think trading in a 330 on an M3 would be a similar situation.


----------



## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Some people have called the R32 the ultimate anti-GTI. Big, heavy motor, AWD, etc. I've seen some recent articles about the MkV GTI where people inside VW have said the same. But it's definitely a beast, and might possibly have more intrinsic value later on. And if you're not a turbo tweaker, you probably won't miss the turbo.


----------



## JonM (Jan 28, 2002)

I've read the same reviews.

I have not yet driven an R32. To date, I figured: why bother driving it.... it would be crazy to trade my car in for one.


----------



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

JonM said:


> There are incentives on VW .:R32s now. My dealer has 3 on her lot. 1 is red and I want it.
> 
> My 00 GTI 1.8T has 53K miles. It has performed flawlessly, no accidents, it is nicely modded, and I love it. It was made in Germany, not Brazil or Mexico. I own it outright.
> 
> Is it nuts to consider trading in a perfectly good car (my GTI) for another very similar car(glorified GTI)? I think trading in a 330 on an M3 would be a similar situation.


It's not at all nuts. The R32 has an appeal all out of line with the car's stats. Yes, it's the ultimate anti-GTI, and yes, it's probably not a whole lot faster than a chipped 1.8T, but as a package it is a really nicely turned out car.

If you can get a good deal on one, I would go for it. After all, it'll be more than a year until the Mark V GTI hits our shores.

EDIT:

You really should drive one. But, as a VW aficianado myself, I will warn you that you should bring your checkbook.


----------



## Guest (Nov 9, 2004)

JonM said:


> I've read the same reviews.
> 
> I have not yet driven an R32. To date, I figured: why bother driving it.... it would be crazy to trade my car in for one.


 I drove one and was very tempted to give up my M3 for it. If they were budging off sticker or offering good lease deals at the time, I would have. But this was back when they first came out.

This is something I may have to re-visit.


----------



## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

How much off MSRP are these "good deals" on the R32?

BTW, the R32 has an awesome exhaust note. I'd buy one just for that.


----------



## mng (Oct 15, 2003)

sounds to me like there's 2 issues here: could be financially prudent/logical (ie, do nothing). but then there's the regret you _may_ feel later on from passing up a deal.

(or....trade in the GTI on a black/dream red z4 3.0  )


----------



## JonM (Jan 28, 2002)

LA525iT said:


> How much off MSRP are these "good deals" on the R32?


$1250 under invoice if you qualify for the $1000 VW loyalty incentive. Maybe more. I dunno what that is off MSRP. A lot.


----------



## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

MSRP on a R32 is 29100. Invoice is 26490. I don't think there are any options on a R32.


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The R32 looks really, really heavy to me. And at least from the outside, the exhaust note sounds hollow and augmented.


----------



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> The R32 looks really, really heavy to me. And at least from the outside, the exhaust note sounds hollow and augmented.


6 lbs lighter than an E46 M3.

And an M3 owner talking about hollow sounding exhausts?

EDIT: And the R32 has one option--leather seats. But my guess is that 90 percent of the cars come with them.


----------



## KevinR (Jun 13, 2003)

JST said:


> And an M3 owner talking about hollow sounding exhausts?


Or an E46 owner talking about a car looking really, really heavy? :rofl:

I really like the R32. If my VR6 Jetta hadn't been totaled and replaced by a MINI Cooper S 11 months ago, I would probably be driving an R32 now. Jon, consider the following for a head to head comparison.

Engine: you've had a VR6 GTI and a 1.8T GTI. Which was engine more usable in daily traffic? Now, remember that the R32 has a 3.2L 24V VR6 as opposed to the 2.8L 12V version you had.

Transmission: I have found the 5 speed in Mk. IV VWs to be vague and notchy at the same time. The 6 speed VWs I've driven don't seem to have this problem.

Seats: Konig sport seats in the R32; slightly sporty seats in the GTI. If you suffer from middle age spread like I do, the GTI may win this category.

Warranty: R32 - full, GTI - only powertrain left.

Exhaust note: purely subjective and I don't know what you've done to your GTI. But the R32 sounds great to me.

In the end, are the advantages of the R32 worth the $10k-$15K in price you'll have to spend to trade?


----------



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

KevinR said:


> Or an E46 owner talking about a car looking really, really heavy? :rofl:
> 
> I really like the R32. If my VR6 Jetta hadn't been totaled and replaced by a MINI Cooper S 11 months ago, I would probably be driving an R32 now. Jon, consider the following for a head to head comparison.
> 
> ...


I used to have a 1.8T (180 hp 2002 version) GTI. When it was stolen, I went looking at cars and flat fell in love with the R32. Unfortunately, the cars had just come out and the dealers were talking nonsense on the price, so on the theory that the 24V 2.8L would be similar, I took an 04 VR6 GTI for a drive. I have to say I was disappointed--the 1.8T felt, to me anyway, like it had a lot more usable torque down low, and the whizz-rush of the turbo made every day driving a bit more exciting. The 200 hp GTI just felt...kind of..boring. Fast, but boring. The nose-heaviness is well-known, but was also noticeable.

In contrast to the 24V GTI, the R32 felt like something really special. It had good torque, nice high-end power, and a rorty exhaust note. The Konig seats are very, very good--probably the best OEM seats I've tried. I didn't have a chance to push the car's handling, but it felt stable and planted, and of course torque steer was not an issue. I imagine that at the limit it would push like mad, but at 7/10s it was fun.

I'd buy one as a commuter car. I really would. In truth, it felt a bit like an E46 M3 that someone turned the wick down on just a tad.


----------



## KevinR (Jun 13, 2003)

JST said:


> I have to say I was disappointed--the 1.8T felt, to me anyway, like it had a lot more usable torque down low, and the whizz-rush of the turbo made every day driving a bit more exciting. The 200 hp GTI just felt...kind of..boring. Fast, but boring. The nose-heaviness is well-known, but was also noticeable.


I don't want to go too far astray from Jon's question, but my experience is the exact opposite of yours. I had an '00 Jetta VR6 (174hp). A month after it was totaled, my wife bought an '03 New Beetle 1.8T (150hp). To me, the 1.8T is lacking in around town torque and is definitely not smooth compared to the VR6. With the VR6, you just think, twitch your right foot and you're there. With the 1.8T, you'd better make sure you're in the right gear and you have enough time to spool up the turbo. It's definitely not a bad engine, but I liked the VR6 much better.

Prior to buying my MINI, I test drove an '03 Jetta GLI with the 200hp VR6 and 6 speed. It was everything I liked about my '00 Jetta with a little more power and refinement.


----------



## JonM (Jan 28, 2002)

mng said:


> (or....trade in the GTI on a black/dream red z4 3.0  )


Alpine White/Dream Red, if you please.

I'd do that if I could find a used Z4 I liked locally. I don't think I could buy a new Four, despite the discounts. They depreciate like crazy. Used 3.0i with less than 10K miles can be had for $29.9K.


----------



## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

The thought crossed my mind to trade the 330 for an R32. At the time, I could have gotten it for $500 off sticker... and this is when they first came out. But it was financially unprudent (is that a word?)

Needless to say, it was a fun car to drive, and I thought it sounded awesome. Plus, it looks great... the best looking Golf ever. (IMO)


----------



## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

The R32 is special cause it's factory tuned, and has an independent rear suspension. The only reason I'd hesitate is cause the new GTI coming out next fall will also have an independent rear suspension, plus that direct injection turbo, which should make it fast and efficient. Depends on whether you like the look of the next GTI though. It's also probably not as fun to drive as the R32.


----------



## Gabe (Sep 20, 2004)

KevinR said:


> I don't want to go too far astray from Jon's question, but my experience is the exact opposite of yours. I had an '00 Jetta VR6 (174hp). A month after it was totaled, my wife bought an '03 New Beetle 1.8T (150hp). To me, the 1.8T is lacking in around town torque and is definitely not smooth compared to the VR6. With the VR6, you just think, twitch your right foot and you're there. With the 1.8T, you'd better make sure you're in the right gear and you have enough time to spool up the turbo. It's definitely not a bad engine, but I liked the VR6 much better.


I have had the same experience with turbo cars. Even chipped turbo cars with the boost turned up. It is really a matter of personal preference, but for normal driving around town I think the VR6 is a better option.

Getting back on topic - I love the R32's. I think it would be an awesome upgrade, and will be pretty unique. There aren't THAT many of them out on the road. I guess it would depend on your financial situation. If you can take on a new payment with no problem, I say go for it!


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

KevinR said:


> Or an E46 owner talking about a car looking really, really heavy? :rofl:
> 
> I really like the R32. If my VR6 Jetta hadn't been totaled and replaced by a MINI Cooper S 11 months ago, I would probably be driving an R32 now. Jon, consider the following for a head to head comparison.
> 
> ...


 The body control is the issue. It acts a lot heavier than the E46 M3 does, even on the stock suspension (which is seriously ponderous).

And the E46 M3 exhaust is a high pitched buzzsaw, that's not the same as hollow basso burble. The R32 has the same sound issues as the SL55 AMG. Both of them sound really good at first, but it gets old pretty fast.


----------



## KevinR (Jun 13, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> The body control is the issue. It acts a lot heavier than the E46 M3 does, even on the stock suspension (which is seriously ponderous).
> 
> And the E46 M3 exhaust is a high pitched buzzsaw, that's not the same as hollow basso burble. The R32 has the same sound issues as the SL55 AMG. Both of them sound really good at first, but it gets old pretty fast.


True, but the body control issue is a problem with all Mk.IV Volkswagens. Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast. It is easily solved with better springs and dampers.

Exhaust sound is purely subjective. I work at a hospital and get to park in the same parking deck as our medical staff. So, I routinely get to experience the exhaust note of a lot of nice cars, including an E46 M3; an E39 M5; an SL55 AMG; and a Ruf 996. The Ruf Porsche wins the best sound contest hands down, but the SL55 is a close second to my ears. The R32 sounds great to me.


----------



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

OBS3SSION said:


> You could always "comparably modify" your GTI. Stage 3 turbo, exhaust, big brakes, light wheels, body kit, Recaro/Sparco seats, etc. The only thing you really couldn't do (cheaply) is AWD. In the end, it will cost a few grand, but a lot less than an R32.


The R32 also has a trick rear suspension to go along with its AWD that is quite a bit more sophisticated than the twist-beam axle setup on GTIs.

Waiting probably makes sense. I imagine that the new GTI is going to be quite a car, and much cheaper than even a good deal on an R32.


----------



## JonM (Jan 28, 2002)

OBS3SSION said:


> You could always "comparably modify" your GTI. Stage 3 turbo, exhaust, big brakes, light wheels, body kit, Recaro/Sparco seats, etc. The only thing you really couldn't do (cheaply) is AWD. In the end, it will cost a few grand, but a lot less than an R32.


I'm thinking that a Quaife differential may be worth doing. Not AWD, but better than stock by a long shot. Has anyone put one in a VAG car? (yeah, long shot. I will ask at Vortex) It's more of a diff rebuild than a swap and I'd like to ask questions before I commit to one.


----------



## KevinR (Jun 13, 2003)

Most of the individual interior and exterior pieces are available through various parts suppliers. You could have the only green "R32" [_or would that be "R18T" _] in existence...


----------

