# BMW oil who makes it



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Kaz said:


> * we know that as of current, the only Mobil1 in the US to meet ACEA A3/B3 is 0w-40. *


NOT true. Mobil 1 15W-50 also meets ACEAS A3/B3.

And top brand (Castrol, Mobil 1, Valvoline) synthetics with the second weight ov 40 or higher (xW-40 or xW-50) meet ACEA A3/B3.

As far as I have been able to find, the only -30 oil that meets those specs is the BMW oil.

And since the BMW is about the least expensive around (especially with the BMW CCA discount) why that is what I use in the Roadster.

The M3 of course MUST use Castrol TWS or RS 10W-60 oil.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> *I lurked a bit on bobistheoilguy.com and there is a lot of talk about that German made Syntec 0W-30 (Castrol Formula SLX). According to some posters it must be PAO/ester based oil (like Mobil1) because of it's low pour point of -81F. So some Syntecs are true synthetics after all  . *


False logic. According to a friend in the pteroleum industry (and he does NOT work for Castrol) using hydro-cracking you can potentially make synthetic oils that are more desireable than via other means.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> *False logic. According to a friend in the pteroleum industry (and he does NOT work for Castrol) using hydro-cracking you can potentially make synthetic oils that are more desireable than via other means. *


You can also potentially make a Civic do a 10-second quarter-mile, too. But IF the goal for Castrol was to produce a lower-cost product by going with a 'refined' Group III base stock vs. a G IV (PAO) or G V (ester), then it's possible (likely?) that they're not using a G III product at its highest potential.

That said, I've heard some talk the last year or two that since Mobil went to the TriSynthetic formula (and now followed up with SuperSyn), they've actually started dropping the percentage of G IV PAO in favor of a G III mix. 

Last night, I did find the list of BMW docs with specific brand recommendations for all lubricants. It's pretty extensive and most of the products are euro-market only, so I'll work on a summary and post it here.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> *False logic. According to a friend in the pteroleum industry (and he does NOT work for Castrol) using hydro-cracking you can potentially make synthetic oils that are more desirable than via other means. *


It was a joke  .
Hydro-cracking lower quality base may or may not create a better oil, for sure it is much cheaper and I'd like that fact to be reflected in the price of the oil. 
I've also read a letter from Castrol where they state that in 0W-30 weight using PAO/ester base is more desirable.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> *NOT true. Mobil 1 15W-50 also meets ACEAS A3/B3.
> 
> And top brand (Castrol, Mobil 1, Valvoline) synthetics with the second weight ov 40 or higher (xW-40 or xW-50) meet ACEA A3/B3.
> 
> ...


FYI only Mobil1 0W-40 meets BMW LL01, 15W-50 does not.

Castrol Syntec 0W-30 is the other -30 oil that meets ACEA A3/B3 and BMW LL01. It is more expensive than BMW synthetic but the specs look very good. I'm going to wait till somebody posts oil analysis on it and may use it in the future.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> *FYI only Mobil1 0W-40 meets BMW LL01, 15W-50 does not.
> 
> Castrol Syntec 0W-30 is the other -30 oil that meets ACEA A3/B3 and BMW LL01. It is more expensive than BMW synthetic but the specs look very good. I'm going to wait till somebody posts oil analysis on it and may use it in the future. *


You didn't say LL-01 specs in your earlier post. And LL-01 specs only apply to Valvetronic engines (1 series and E60/65 7 series).


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> *You didn't say LL-01 specs in your earlier post. And LL-01 specs only apply to Valvetronic engines (1 series and E60/65 7 series). *


Actually, I discovered that this is not completely true. I'll post the details when I have time, but Valvetronics can use LL-01 or a different, lower-viscosity LL-01 variant (and E46s also have Valvetronic but not in the US)


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> *It was a joke  .
> Hydro-cracking lower quality base may or may not create a better oil, for sure it is much cheaper and I'd like that fact to be reflected in the price of the oil.
> I've also read a letter from Castrol where they state that in 0W-30 weight using PAO/ester base is more desirable. *


Hydro-cracking may not be that much cheaper when the result is a high quality oil. When you are going for seomthing to blend in a semi-synthetic, it is probably much cheaper. I will have to ask my friend.

As for the straight out "better performance" of a PAO/ester based synthetic, ask anyone with Mobil 1 about their foray into aviation. Their Mobil 1 AV-1 for light aircraft engines cost them a BUNDLE rebuilding and replacing engines. Major sludge problem. Somehtig to do with the high power outputs and air cooled tolerances, IIRC.

Don't get me wrong, I am a BIG fan of Mobil 1 oils. We have a Jep Cherokee that went 299,935 miles on the engine (replaced due ot oil leaks not bearing or ring problems), the auto tranny is still going at 349,000 miles, as are both diffs and the transfer case. ALL running Mobil 1 since about 20K miles.

I just have a problem with generalizing that one oil is better because of the base stock source, or that an oil is not a "true" synthetic when it comes from something that wasn't what you wanted and you turned it into a desired product.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> *
> I just have a problem with generalizing that one oil is better because of the base stock source, or that an oil is not a "true" synthetic when it comes from something that wasn't what you wanted and you turned it into a desired product. *


I'm not trying to say that Group III base stock isn't going to produce good motor oil, there is more to it than that, additive package counts as well. US courts allowed Castrol to use synthetic label on hydro-cracked Group III based oil so who am I to argue with that? I'm certain that the only reason that Castrol is doing that is because it's cheaper. If there was a true technological advantage they would make all of their oils from Group III base stock and it's not the case with oils sold in Europe. We have to remember that nowhere in Europe you can find good synthetic oil for less than $5/liter, certainly not Castrol.

This is the letter from Castrol (from bobistheoilguy site):
"Yes, the Syntec 0W-30 does come from Germany. As it already exists there,we decided to take advantage of that production source. The base stock of the 0W-30 is PAO. In this unique low 
temperature application, *it was found that PAO was the best way to go.*

Susan Howell
Reference: 130778"

Interesting...


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

After more search I've found out that fully synthetic Castrol TXT Softec Plus 5W-30 sold in Europe meets both ACEA A3/B3 and BMW LL and I tend to believe that this is the BMW Synthetic or a base for it. This oil along with SLX 0W-30 is also recommended by Dutch BMW website. The specs for Softec aren't as impressive as for SLX though.

I have to say that if I was to choose an oil for non-M BMW I'd make sure that it meets ACEA A3/B3 and is as close to original 5W-30 as possible. That list would include BMW synthetic, Syntec 0W-30 (Made in Germany) and Mobil1 0W-40.

I have no idea how Castrol is able to sell their German imported Syntec 0W-30 or BMW's Synthetic 5W-30 at these prices :dunno: . I guess we're lucky...


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> *I'm not trying to say that Group III base stock isn't going to produce good motor oil, there is more to it than that, additive package counts as well. US courts allowed Castrol to use synthetic label on hydro-cracked Group III based oil so who am I to argue with that? I'm certain that the only reason that Castrol is doing that is because it's cheaper. If there was a true technological advantage they would make all of their oils from Group III base stock and it's not the case with oils sold in Europe. We have to remember that nowhere in Europe you can find good synthetic oil for less than $5/liter, certainly not Castrol.
> 
> This is the letter from Castrol (from bobistheoilguy site):
> "Yes, the Syntec 0W-30 does come from Germany. As it already exists there,we decided to take advantage of that production source. The base stock of the 0W-30 is PAO. In this unique low
> ...


That last is interesting.

However the other advantage of Group III hydro-cracked synthetic oils is the ability to actually tailor better oil base stocks in many ways. So there may be a cost savings, but there may be other reasons they chose that route.


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## Ramsey Barnette (Jul 17, 2011)

No, don't switch it up. Go with the BMW approved list for oil and an OEM BMW oil filter. My Indy prefers Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic. The BMW dealer will use Castrol Synthetic Oil 0-30 that is special for BMW's. You can get the Valvoline Syn-Power at Wal-Mart. Amazon offers free shipping and sometimes Mail In Rebates on the Mobil 1 oil. It depends on your driving habits and weather on the best oil for YOU. Also, the 15K suggestion is a little long to go, good Indy shops usually recommend a range of 9-12K, depending on driving habits and use of the car. I notice that close to 13K my oil needs another quart added to it, V8's burn oil. It's a fact.

BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:
* Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
* Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
* Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
* Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30

BMW Oil Filters: http://www.amazon.com/BMW-Genuine-O...1342645925&sr=8-2&keywords=BMW+E60+oil+filter 
Source: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx


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## DougN (Jul 29, 2009)

Ramsey Barnette said:


> No, don't switch it up. <snip>


You do realize you've necro-posted a thread that is NINE YEARS OLD don't you?


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## BMW220i (Jun 6, 2011)

DougN said:


> You do realize you've necro-posted a thread that is NINE YEARS OLD don't you?


Mobil 1 says to use oil that is less than 5 years old so don't use the oil in the original post! :rofl: Or use it in a cheap lawnmower that you don't care about.


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