# out the door price



## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

does anyone know what the out the door price of a 330i with pp and sp is in california...

and does anyone know what the out the door price is with euro delivery... 

and lastly.. is there any way to avoid paying the 8% california sales tax on a car.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

charman said:


> *does anyone know what the out the door price of a 330i with pp and sp is in california...*


Ever heard of Edmunds.com?



> *
> and does anyone know what the out the door price is with euro delivery... *


Ever heard of Edmunds.com, and minus 7% from that?



> *
> and lastly.. is there any way to avoid paying the 8% california sales tax on a car. *


Yeah. Don't buy in California.

What type of a question is this? For Christ sake, EVERY dealership has different pricing policies and EVERY dealership in California will end up with different out the door pricing, depending on your negotiation skills and your knowledge of the market. You can get a DECENT idea of what the average prices dealerships are chargine with Edmunds.com's True Value Pricing, and just add tax and license fees.

The only way NOT to pay local sales tax is if you live in a state that does not charge local sales tax.


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## exBMWannabe (Dec 31, 2001)

*Oy Hack!*

Wife mad at you again?  Sounds like your canned (annoyed?) answer as if you were at the 'org.

Anyhow, as you might have noticed from his post count, he's a noob.

Yo Mod, should this be put into the New Buyer's forum?

Bob


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## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

yep.. i'm a noob

i was actually looking a compilation of otd prices for different dealerships / negotiations.

but... i hope your wife isn't too mad at you.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Actually buying out of state doesn't exempt you from paying sales tax. I'm sure there are ways around it, but since its technically a 'use and sales' tax, the car's taxation is dependent on where its registered, not where its bought.

So if you had a NV or OR address and want respective registration, and likely insurance coverage from the same state for registration/proof-of-insurance purposes, I don't see why you'd hafta pay the tax, though this is probably illegal nonetheless.

So out-the-door price depends on:

Invoice price of car+options
negotiated markup over invoice
any other BMW fees (destination, MACO, T&S)
TTL (tax/title/license)
misc dealer fees (shouldn't be any)

The only parts under your control are the first two and the last.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

charman said:


> *yep.. i'm a noob
> 
> i was actually looking a compilation of otd prices for different dealerships / negotiations.
> 
> but... i hope your wife isn't too mad at you. *


Sorry for the tirate...But you CAN find a good "average" of car prices in your neighborhood at Edmunds.com.

However, I also recommend you search online (google's a good place) for "Rizzo's method" and follow that to a tee. You will end up saving hundreds, even thousands off of sticker using his method.

As far as sales tax goes, if you plan to operate the vehicle in OR or NV for the first six month of ownership AND have residence in either state, you CAN buy cars in California without paying Californica state tax. You must also register your vehicle in one of those two states.


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

Kaz said:


> *Actually buying out of state doesn't exempt you from paying sales tax. I'm sure there are ways around it, but since its technically a 'use and sales' tax, the car's taxation is dependent on where its registered, not where its bought.*


If you buy the car out of state, you need to store it out of state for 90 days to avoid paying sales tax. This also counts for Euro Delivery. If you can swing keeping your car for 90 days in Europe or having it shipped after 90 days, you're tax free.

As for pricing, it all depends. Euro Delivery cars can easily be had for $1500 over Euro Invoice (see www.eurobuyers.com). Buying a normal allocation car is more unpredictable (I think), and is more dealer specific.

--gary


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## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

gary, i tried emailing you, but maybe you didn't get my msg...

which dealer were you able to get 1k over invoice in sf? i live in south bay, so driving to sf wouldn't be that big of a deal. feel free to pm me if you don't want to give it out.

the hack: yeah, the rizzo method seems to work well with most people.

so basically you're paying approx 3k for 3 months.... (in europe).. i think i'd rather have the car


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

*Bay Area*



charman said:


> *gary, i tried emailing you, but maybe you didn't get my msg...
> 
> which dealer were you able to get 1k over invoice in sf? i live in south bay, so driving to sf wouldn't be that big of a deal. feel free to pm me if you don't want to give it out.
> 
> ...


Deals are negotiated, so you can't walk in and ask for the $1k over invoice. All the stars lined up properly and I had a good story. It was Weatherford in Berkeley, by the way.

As for storage, I'm not sure what the prices are. You could buy a car in Reno, for example, and store it there for 90 days. I'm sure it's not $1000/month. The same holds true for Europe. You could contract someone to drop it off at EH Harms for you after 90 days.

--gary


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## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

oh, i just meant keeping it for 3 months would save you approx 3k. meaning every month would save you approx 1 k. 

but i'd rather get the bmw 3 months earlier and pay the 3k...

also... do you know exactly how the 3 months thing works? how does the state of california know you kept it in another state / country for 3 months?


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

If you are willing to drive down to Santa Barbara from S.F., you can talk to Jon Shafer or Franco, both active participants here on bimmerfest.com. They will take very good care of you and give you a better deal than any dealership up in S.F.


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

charman said:


> *oh, i just meant keeping it for 3 months would save you approx 3k. meaning every month would save you approx 1 k.
> 
> but i'd rather get the bmw 3 months earlier and pay the 3k...
> 
> also... do you know exactly how the 3 months thing works? how does the state of california know you kept it in another state / country for 3 months? *


You need to provide documentation showing that it was out of state for 3 months. It can be in a variety of forms. My salesman told me about a guy who recently kept his car in Germany for 76 days, and then brought it in, expecting to claim that the time on the ship counted. That didn't work. He was so angry, he refused to pick up his car when it arrived, at least for a while.

If I was being really cheap, I would negotiate a very slim margin (like $1000-1250) over Euro invoice, purchase it in Nevada or Oregon and then store it out of state for 90 days to avoid sales tax. I think you would end up saving about $7000. Of course, you would order your car in January and not have it in the US until June. Figure on some depreciation and loss of money from interest on payments as well as the three months of storage.

--gary


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## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

yeah i might end up doing that cause i want to save as much as possible :dunno:


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## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

*does this nullify*

does this nullify what you were saying gary?

http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/faqs/...0EAB68466#18028380-122D-4E3C-8D0F92B628E0DB26


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: does this nullify*



charman said:


> *does this nullify what you were saying gary?
> 
> http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/faqs/...0EAB68466#18028380-122D-4E3C-8D0F92B628E0DB26 *


Nope. California law is specific about the 90 day out-of-state ruling.

--gary


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## FrancisK (Apr 8, 2002)

Don't get me wrong... Every one want to get the right thing with a right price. And nothing wrong with bargining for a right price, but I am totally disagree that you would like to skipping paying tax. Do you know the real meaning of tax? You have the money to buying a premium car, why don't you paid the 8% to your state. Even though I am foreign people, I don't get any benefit from here but I still paying my income tax, and the sales tax on all of my car. If you don't want to pay tax, don't buy anything, just walk, cheap S.
:thumbdwn:


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

FrancisK said:


> *Don't get me wrong... Every one want to get the right thing with a right price. And nothing wrong with bargining for a right price, but I am totally disagree that you would like to skipping paying tax. Do you know the real meaning of tax? You have the money to buying a premium car, why don't you paid the 8% to your state. Even though I am foreign people, I don't get any benefit from here but I still paying my income tax, and the sales tax on all of my car. If you don't want to pay tax, don't buy anything, just walk, cheap S.
> :thumbdwn:  *


It's more theoretical than anything else, although one person on the bimmer.org E39 board pulled it off. I'm not a fan of paying taxes, and like the many things I buy on the Internet, I wouldn't blink if given the chance to buy out of state to avoid tax. If you can avoid taxes, do it. If you can avoid paying MSRP, do it.

As for the old "you're buying a premium car-don't be a cheap bastard argument," how do you suppose some of us are able to buy a premium car in the first place? By being a cheap bastard in other areas of our lives. I'll spend $100 on polymer car care products, but I'll spend hours moving around my loans or investments for a slightly better rate.

Cheap bastards of the world unite! You've got nothing to lose.

--gary


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## FrancisK (Apr 8, 2002)

Thanks for your comment, it cool me down. :thumb:


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## exBMWannabe (Dec 31, 2001)

Ah, feel the love......I was just kidding about the wife Hack. No hard feelings eh?


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## charman (Jun 5, 2002)

AHAHAHAH

ok... 
i prefer not to think of myself as a cheap bastard

just an opportunist.

:thumb:


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