# bmw quality is crap



## softtop323 (Jul 17, 2008)

My 2006 x3 is having problems that a friends Hyundai with more miles hasn't had


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

No offense but your car is 8 years old, it is going to need maintenance. I replied to your thread in the X3 forum, hope that helps you get the problem solved.

Tim


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## BestCS (Jun 30, 2009)

Well it's time to buy a new BMW! And a comparison to a Hyundai? People who buy Hyundais really don't like cars and only buy stuff that lasts forever! 

Now open up your wallet cheapskate and enjoy life!


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## DHC8 (Feb 22, 2007)

My 2006 325i has been rock solid. One DTML pump and a set of front bushings. 138,000 miles.

On the other hand my neighbor has bought three Honda transmissions.


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## softtop323 (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Tim for your advice. In response to BestCS , I have opened my wallet by buying a bmw and I expect quality Which is definitely getting worse rather than better. If you don't let BMW know you will see no improvement. I would Rather tell the truth and hopefully get ssomeone's attention than to ignore the problem and just pay for something that shouldn't have failed.


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## petener999 (Jul 26, 2008)

softtop323 said:


> Thanks Tim for your advice. In response to BestCS , I have opened my wallet by buying a bmw and I expect quality Which is definitely getting worse rather than better. If you don't let BMW know you will see no improvement. I would Rather tell the truth and hopefully get ssomeone's attention than to ignore the problem and just pay for something that shouldn't have failed.


....


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## captainaudio (Jul 17, 2007)

BestCS said:


> Well it's time to buy a new BMW! And a comparison to a Hyundai? People who buy Hyundais really don't like cars and *only buy stuff that lasts forever*!
> 
> Now open up your wallet cheapskate and enjoy life!


Buying stuff that lasts forever. :rofl:

What idiots! :thumbdwn:

What is wrong with those people. :dunno:


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

When you buy a BMW you are not buying rock solid "reliability". For that there is doubtless a Lexus dealer near by. You are buying a great driving experience. That is what your $ go to. If you need a long term bullet proof car, BMW is not for you. N4S


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## dolfan13 (Jan 1, 2011)

Buy a Lexus next time.SUV doesn't matter anyway.


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

The answer is simple " Don't buy a BMW !!! " They are not for everybody.


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

need4speed said:


> When you buy a BMW you are not buying rock solid "reliability". For that there is doubtless a Lexus dealer near by. You are buying a great driving experience. That is what your $ go to. If you need a long term bullet proof car, BMW is not for you. N4S


That's what Alfa Romeo and Lancia used to say. The Alfa Romeo GTV-6 and Lancia Scorpion were good looking cars, reportedly handled well, but had poor reliability. Engine parts became brittle and cracked. Hoses leaked.

Reliability is important as well as the driving experience.


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

Dave 20T said:


> That's what Alfa Romeo and Lancia used to say. The Alfa Romeo GTV-6 and Lancia Scorpion were good looking cars, reportedly handled well, but had poor reliability. Engine parts became brittle and cracked. Hoses leaked.
> 
> Reliability is important as well as the driving experience.


BMW reliability is not up to high end Japanese standards. It just isn't. However it isn't as bad as Alpha. N4S


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## softtop323 (Jul 17, 2008)

It seems as if some of you would actually defend poor quality. Poor quality is never OK. BMW needs to lighten up on some of the plastic and actually go back to screwing their cars together rather than snapping them together.


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## Sike2014 (May 26, 2014)

softtop323 said:


> It seems as if some of you would actually defend poor quality. Poor quality is never OK. BMW needs to lighten up on some of the plastic and actually go back to screwing their cars together rather than snapping them together.


BMW is in the average range for reliability, so what is the poor quality people are talking about??? Honda, Toyota, Lexus are all at the top, but have very little personality. Yes, I know toyota and Lexus are related, but some relative companies do not have the same quality levels. Porsche is the only brand to combine reliability and fun, but Porsches cost a lot more money at the entry point.

I think that people who talk about any of the modern cars being crap have not owned anything vintage. They were not crap in my opinion, but they sure needed a lot more work.


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## BestCS (Jun 30, 2009)

Look at the 2014 issue of Consumer Reports pages 88 & 94! BMW reliability is a myth! Now part of the problem is in selling performance maybe the people who buy the car expect they can beat it to death. 

BMW's sales pitch, the ultimate driving machine, should probably be restricted to just the car's handling qualities. If you treat it like a road rocket, you'll likely have some expensive repairs. 

Although BMW may be guilty of some technical incompetence. I remember all the trouble I had with the transmission in my 1970 BMW 2002. I don't think the company does enough testing of its new ideas before they go into production. I'm thinking of all the problems with turbos and VANOS. This just shouldn't happen. However, the Japanese make stuff just as complicated and get it right the first model year. On the home front, GM can't even design an ignition switch that stay on! They may have to recall every vehicle they ever made!


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## dolfan13 (Jan 1, 2011)

The Japanese work themselves to death.Literally.I work for Toyota and still drive a piece of junk BMW and LOVE driving this car.Not many I work with say this about their Lexus.They say its a great car but....


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## Fish23 (Apr 24, 2012)

What about the large number of recalls Toyota has had in the last few years that have affected millions of cars? That is reliability and quality? 

Any machine is a 'system of systems' and they all need a level of preventive maintenance to maximize their reliability and minimize downtime. 

I always wonder how faithfully owners who report problems that become Consumer Reports statistics actually adhere to the recommended maintenance schedule that comes with their vehicles, regardless of make. Rhetorically, how much corrective maintenance results from poor preventive maintenance practice. Just wondering..........


Sent from BimmerApp mobile appo


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## BestCS (Jun 30, 2009)

So I guess those no good Germans are lazy? The Americans must be asleep at the switch!

Har har har!


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## BestCS (Jun 30, 2009)

captainaudio said:


> Buying stuff that lasts forever. :rofl:
> 
> What idiots! :thumbdwn:
> 
> What is wrong with those people. :dunno:


What's wrong with you? Hyundai give a 10 year and 100K power train warranty To me that's forever!:thumbup:


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## Valk1500 (Jun 8, 2014)

My family has had BMW's for over 30 years. I bought my first, 2002 325i with 87k miles July 2008. It now has 169,000+ and has been dealer maintained with only one part failure. That was a stuck thermostat, the expansion tank was replaced as well. Bought my second, 07 Z4 3.0si Roadster with 71k miles.
The 325i is my wife's daily driver now, it was mine DD the first three years and saw triple digits weekly. How one drives + their maintenance attitude will make or ruin any car brand. 

I buy preowned for my personal use, and new for my wife..'04 Toyota Sequoia. Perhaps the OP should consider Toyota/Lexus for an suv. 

As for build quality, these are man made and designed. Also, the design quality will be a direct result of supplier quality. 

Routine maintenance and inspections are important to the longevity of any vehicle. 

I still believe that BMW offers performance, reliability, and the ultimate driving experience. I have no personal experience with BMW Suv's, I hope the OP has better luck with your next vehicle.


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## Sike2014 (May 26, 2014)

BestCS said:


> Look at the 2014 issue of Consumer Reports pages 88 & 94! BMW reliability is a myth! Now part of the problem is in selling performance maybe the people who buy the car expect they can beat it to death.
> 
> BMW's sales pitch, the ultimate driving machine, should probably be restricted to just the car's handling qualities. If you treat it like a road rocket, you'll likely have some expensive repairs.
> 
> Although BMW may be guilty of some technical incompetence. I remember all the trouble I had with the transmission in my 1970 BMW 2002. I don't think the company does enough testing of its new ideas before they go into production. I'm thinking of all the problems with turbos and VANOS. This just shouldn't happen. However, the Japanese make stuff just as complicated and get it right the first model year. On the home front, GM can't even design an ignition switch that stay on! They may have to recall every vehicle they ever made!


BMW has ranked in the average range as a brand for many years across JD Powers, CR, etc for reliability. So, referring to them as crap is either coming from bitterness or rudeness. Also, research cars that commonly go over 300k miles and you will see BMW on the lists. Also, research best engines and you will find some of BMWs. Are they the most reliable, no. Sre they crap, no. Your behavior is that of either a troll or that of someone who got very unlucky with a car purchase.


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## dolfan13 (Jan 1, 2011)

BestCS said:


> So I guess those no good Germans are lazy? The Americans must be asleep at the switch!
> 
> Har har har!


Not lazy,they probably have a life.Same as USA.


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## softtop323 (Jul 17, 2008)

Sike2014 said:


> BMW has ranked in the average range as a brand for many years across JD Powers, CR, etc for reliability. So, referring to them as crap is either coming from bitterness or rudeness. Also, research cars that commonly go over 300k miles and you will see BMW on the lists. Also, research best engines and you will find some of BMWs. Are they the most reliable, no. Sre they crap, no. Your behavior is that of either a troll or that of someone who got very unlucky with a car purchase.


1. exhaust flap vacuum failed
2. Intake boots disintegrating
3. Water pump failed
4. Lean codes that could be anything just depends how much you want to spend 
5. Secondary air valve failed
6. oil leaks
7. belt tensiomers failed
8. Idler pulley failed
9. Air cond leak
10. Blue tooth doesnt work

All of the above occured under 80,000 miles
Absolutely stupid engineering, everything unreachable, cheap plastic everything
I was told by dealer to have car smoke tested - NEVER had to smoke test a car in my life.

I am not rude and i am not a troll. BMW QUALITY IS CRAP and SIKE2014 Needs to wake up. In a restaurant when I get a bad meal I let them know it. Bmw Quality is bad and I am letting them know it.


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## HolyToledo (Sep 16, 2013)

congratulations. 


softtop323 said:


> 1. exhaust flap vacuum failed
> 2. Intake boots disintegrating
> 3. Water pump failed
> 4. Lean codes that could be anything just depends how much you want to spend
> ...


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## Fish23 (Apr 24, 2012)

softtop323 said:


> 1. exhaust flap vacuum failed
> 
> 2. Intake boots disintegrating
> 
> ...


I am sorry that you have had what you feel is a bad experience but your conclusion about BMW qualiity would only be valid if there were a statistically-significant number of other BMW owners who felt exactly as you do and for the same reasons. Then there would be some substance to your opinions in quality.

I hope that most of your issues were repaired under warranty and again, could be statisitically insignificant for your model if others with the same model did not experience what you did. That would be an interesting test of your hypothesis.

As for the use of plastic, all manufacturers gave been looking for ways to squeeze every mile/gallon out if their vehicles because the US has fleet fuel efficiency targets that must be met by regulation. Other lighter metals are being used as well.

I could go on but, as someone else pointed out, you seemed to be having a rant. I do I hope you feel better for ir and have better luck with whatever vehicle you drive next
but you won't find much sympathy here as few of us can relate to your experience.


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## stonex1 (Oct 10, 2012)

Great, now I have to go google what a smoke test is.


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## Fish23 (Apr 24, 2012)

stonex1 said:


> Great, now I have to go google what a smoke test is.


It has to do with testing for various vacuum leaks. I had never heard of it either.


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## R ODonnell (Dec 15, 2014)

softtop323 said:


> 1. exhaust flap vacuum failed
> 2. Intake boots disintegrating
> 3. Water pump failed
> 4. Lean codes that could be anything just depends how much you want to spend
> ...


I don't want to minimize your problems. I know from experience that they can be very costly and frustrating. But since you made a blanket statement let me add my experiences.

2009 X3

143,300 miles.

Zero problems in the first 100,000 miles.

In the 43,300 since (not counting routine maintenance items).

xDrive actuator gear stripped.

Oil cooler gasket weep.

Oil filter housing gasket weep.

Otherwise the car has been virtually trouble free.

I bought it new and drive it like it was made to be driven.

You're car sounds like it has a lot more than 80,000 miles. Did you buy it new? Are you sure it has the original instrument cluster? Are you sure it's the original engine?


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## Fish23 (Apr 24, 2012)

R ODonnell said:


> I don't want to minimize your problems. I know from experience that they can be very costly and frustrating. But since you made a blanket statement let me add my experiences.
> 
> 2009 X3
> 
> ...


Thank you for this detailed post which serves as a nice "counterbalance" to what has been posted by the OP. Now, if we could survey many, many more like the OP and you for their experiences, we could statistically infer something about BMW quality, especially for X3s of that MY.


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## Nigel720 (Jan 4, 2014)

We are talking about an 8 year old car here, what do you expect? People seem to think low mileage cars don't give problems, they do, dosen't matter what make or model. They all have a limited shelf life and it's peolpe like me, and those likeminded folk, who keep these older cars going accepting it is going to break and cost money...

Some people need to get with the progam here. There I've had my 5c.


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## Rick550i (Dec 30, 2013)

Try Audi. In my experience much more unreliable. Fun to drive but very risky when the warranty expires. One forum poster always said "you don't own an Audi, you support it."


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

Other than Porsche, I'm not sure any German made car does well in a reliability test vs. high end Japanese. N4S


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## tblt44 (Apr 28, 2011)

I thing all in allvthere built well except forvthere interior. Cheap headliners, plastic coating on center console. 
2005 325i.


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## Preludator (Oct 8, 2013)

German cars can run a long time if maintained properly. In Europe, old BMW's, MB, Audi's from the 90's are still on the road and many look immaculate doing 160km/H or more on highway. All vehicles require a certain level of care to keep them running regardless who makes them. Heck, at some countries around the world they still run the MB 250D from the 80's as taxis even Mercedes confessed that they build too good of a vehicle and regretted it later. Its an Iconic German Godzilla that just won't die. If only repairs were cheap in US; everyone would be driving German for sure...


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

Preludator said:


> German cars can run a long time if maintained properly. In Europe, old BMW's, MB, Audi's from the 90's are still on the road and many look immaculate doing 160km/H or more on highway. All vehicles require a certain level of care to keep them running regardless who makes them. Heck, at some countries around the world they still run the MB 250D from the 80's as taxis even Mercedes confessed that they build too good of a vehicle and regretted it later. Its an *Iconic German Godzilla* that just won't die. If only repairs were cheap in US; everyone would be driving German for sure...


:rofl:


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## m3imposter (Oct 22, 2014)

My 1996 328is has 175,000 and still runs strong, I have a binder full of service records, sure. But mostly small stuff that comes with age, and basic maint that all cars need. Original engine and trans, and they still runs great! My interior door panels and glove box have given up on me, but that's an e36 thing. Original paint still shines true. Daily driver.


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## mechauto (Nov 25, 2006)

Which of these suspensions will have more problems? BMW
Which of these suspensions will get you to work? BOTH
Which of these suspensions will get you to work with a smile on your face?______

If you answered BOTH then sell the BMW and buy a Hyundai

BMW M3 Rear Suspension:


Hyundai Sonata Rear Suspension:


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## whersdadipstick (Aug 13, 2013)

mechauto said:


> Which of these suspensions will have more problems? BMW
> Which of these suspensions will get you to work? BOTH
> Which of these suspensions will get you to work with a smile on your face?______
> 
> ...


apples to oranges, hyundai is not the same type of car as a BMW M3.
why not compare a BMW rear suspension to the track of a panzer tank?
Some people get a smile out of other things than driving aggressively.


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## DebCoop109 (Dec 22, 2014)

Have been posting on the 5 series thread. My 2012 550 has been in the shop for 3 weeks with a long list of engine problems. BMW has a serious issue with the N63 V8. Considered "statistically significant" I presume, as many engine parts are under recall by BMW. Good news for BMW is that there are relatively fewer of those engines out there. Bad news for BMW is that they're in cars that people paid a LOT of money for. My dealer is trying to help, but my 500 is unreliable (looking at about 2 months in the shop in 2 1/2 years). Is the overall BRAND quality "crap" as the OP indicated? i don't think so, there are too many positive experiences out there. But does BMW have serious issues with a couple models? Yep. And it's hurting their reputation - 2 of my co-workers recently bought new luxury cars, and because of my experience they refused to consider BMW. One went with an Audi, the other with a Mercedes. 

Since I do need to work, and need transportation to get there, I cannot have an unreliable car. I'm talking with BMW about how to give my 550 back to them and I'm heartbroken over it. I LOVED my 550, couldn't wait to get in it and drive it every day. May or may not get another BMW, it's in their hands to make it right.


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## rhipsher (Aug 25, 2014)

When you buy a car that's 8 years old there are many factors that determine how long it's life span is. And most of the time it's how the previous owners took car of it. There are lemons in every make and model. But over all German cars for the most part have a great reputation for quality.


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## Edgy36-39 (Jan 29, 2008)

I've written about this evergreen topic for years on my site: chrisparente.com I try to be even handed. 

FWIW here's where I've landed. There are some instances when BMW deserves to be raked over the coals, such as cooling systems that only last 60K and lying to owners of SULEV cars about the existence of an extended warranty. Personally I hate run flats and the lack of spares too. And I do agree with you OP about letting BMW know -- nothing will change unless and until new sales drop. 

On the other hand, the concept of preventative maintenance seems to be dying in this country. As the previous poster said, BMWs are reliable IF THEY ARE MAINTAINED. If you want a car that you just change the oil in and it runs past 100K, you need to buy Japanese.

I'm going to guess you did not buy the car new. IMO, the only people who should buy older BMWs out of warranty are people who will dive into the ownership experience, learn all the arcane facts on their specific model and do some DIY. Otherwise the experience will be very costly, which some people are OK with too. To each his own. But even if you don't want to do the work yourself, no reason to take a 06 to the dealer. Find a good local indie!

These cars are hobbies, not transportation.


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## sgs (Jan 13, 2015)

*I would agree*

I definitely agree that BMW quality is crap. They are good handling and fun to drive, but you will experience an endless number of problems which will cost more than they should to fix. My wife has a 2011 135i with the DCT. Every week it's got another little problem that other cars don't. Latest thermostat and dealer wants 1400 bucks to change. It's a thermostat? ?

Would never drive this car on a long trip.


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