# Big US discounts



## jlstone (Sep 7, 2006)

Who else has noticed the big US incentives that are not available for ED. Makes me really think twice about doing an ED when there is $5000 in trunk money on an 09 5 series. No option credit for ED on 3 series or last month if you got your own financing they gave you a credit but not for ED. 

It just seems like ED doesn’t make any sense right now. What do the rest of you think?


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

I guess it depends on what you want. The 09 5-series are no longer in production, so--of course--there is no ED incentive on one at this time. 

My personal opinion is that you should compare "likes" with "likes"--such as ordering a similar model for US or for European delivery. But that's just me. :angel:


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## AZ-BMW (Dec 16, 2006)

jlstone said:


> Who else has noticed the big US incentives that are not available for ED. Makes me really think twice about doing an ED when there is $5000 in trunk money on an 09 5 series. No option credit for ED on 3 series or last month if you got your own financing they gave you a credit but not for ED.
> 
> It just seems like ED doesn't make any sense right now. What do the rest of you think?


Although ~7% off MSRP is still not chump change :thumbup:
No MACO or Training Fee charged :thumbup:
And the experience of driving around in Bavaria (or wherever) with free insurance and registration/tags (well, at least for 14 days) must be worth something :thumbup:
Then there is the special Lufthansa 2-for-1 deal that can be attractive depending on the trip timing :thumbup:
But I guess "ED doesn't make any sense right now" :dunno: :rofl:


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Conversely, you can't get the ED price by doing US delivery. The common term is "offers cannot be combined".

If you don't want to do ED - don't do it. No dealer is going to force you to do it.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

ED is really a special situation that defies price comparison. I would not buy another "new" car if I were not doing ED. If I was going to be price sensitive I would buy my daughter a 1 or 2 year old model and send her off to grad school. However I get the opportunity to take delivery of a car in Europe and drive where I wish, then have the car back home for a year so my son can drive it during his senior year at college. He will park his E46 M3 which is not really well suited to MI winters, since the M3 will be in my garage, on nice days it will need to be exercised, and a responsible father will just have to make the sacrifice for his son. The only negative is that my daughter has the same taste in automobiles as her mother, so we must go to Stuttgart for delivery. :dunno:


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

ED can be seen as buying a car + a vacation. If you can find a better deal without ED, just do it. You still save money, right? Then use the money on vacation.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

Lots of good points already made.

If you look at ED as purely a method of getting a better price, then there's no sense doing it if you can get the same or better price with US delivery for the same car. Others see value in having the european driving experience. Hard to place a specific value on that. And, yes, many people use the savings from ED to "pay" for their vacation. If that's not happening, then it may be harder to justify financially.

But I don't think you can say it makes "no sense", it's just that the costs are different than usual, making the typical comparison inapt.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

Apples and oranges.
But taking delivery at die Welt is Passion fruit.

Everyone should do it at once in their life.


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## jlstone (Sep 7, 2006)

No ones addressing the fact that BMW is offering a lot of great discounts that can’t be used if you do ED. Why aren’t they being offered if you do ED?

I have done three EDs and enjoyed each one. The argument gets harder when there is very little economic incentive. If come October they offer a $2500 marketing allowance for a 2010 5 series but it does not apply to ED then I’ll just feel pissed. Yea I love the experience but I wouldn’t do ED on a Porsche and pay a premium. I can get one here for a better price. Just doesn’t make sense. 

As far as saving money can’t be done when your taking a family of four and staying in the Bayerisher Hof. I like to go and enjoy myself but I don't want to come back and tell other BMW owners that I paid more so I could take delivery in Europe.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

jlstone said:


> No ones addressing the fact that BMW is offering a lot of great discounts that can't be used if you do ED. Why aren't they being offered if you do ED?
> 
> I have done three EDs and enjoyed each one. The argument gets harder when there is very little economic incentive. If come October they offer a $2500 marketing allowance for a 2010 5 series but it does not apply to ED then I'll just feel pissed. Yea I love the experience but I wouldn't do ED on a Porsche and pay a premium. I can get one here for a better price. Just doesn't make sense.
> 
> As far as saving money can't be done when your taking a family of four and staying in the Bayerisher Hof. I like to go and enjoy myself but I don't want to come back and tell other BMW owners that I paid more so I could take delivery in Europe.


I believe the incentive is also not just excluding ED cars - its also excluding cars that are ordered and pre-sold, for US delivery.

The point of the incentive is to move cars off the lot that don't currently have buyers. Those buyers are being disadvantaged by having to choose from what is available - so they are being compensated for this. Other folks have ordered cars (ED and US delivery), seen the incentive, and then CAs have worked with them to switch to a car that is in stock. So you do have options.

You may not like it, but does that make sense? Seems logical to me.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

jlstone said:


> As far as saving money can't be done when your taking a family of four and staying in the Bayerisher Hof. I like to go and enjoy myself but I don't want to come back and tell other BMW owners that I paid more so I could take delivery in Europe.


If you know anything about ED pricing, I'm not sure how you'll be saying you paid more for taking delivery in Europe. ED pricing from my experience will almost always eclipse any incentivised US delivery. Exceptions are end of model run promotions - which you can't do ED for anyhow, since production has ended.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

If you want the incentives, you shop around and hope that a dealership has the model / transmission / paint color / interior / packages / options that you want.
If you " want it your way " you can either order or do an ED.
Personaly if I'm laying out BMW prices for a car, I want it my way. ( I've been driving stickshifts for 30+ years and like em. Most new cars have slushboxes )


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## ms330 (Feb 25, 2009)

Agreed with MFUNF... I think ED is special... people who buy an ED car, pick up in MUC, and drop it off immediately are somewhat missing the point in my opinion, and not saving nearly as much money as they think.

@jlstone, you're right... with BMW sales down (i think a report yesterday said -18%, but then again they were the best selling luxury brand and inevitably had more to lose), they'll undoubtedly dream up schemes to move existing inventory. After all, they do sell their most cars in the U.S. through "traditional" methods and not ED.


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## livermore525 (Aug 22, 2006)

I am doing ED for a new 335i convert because I cannot find what I want on the lots here (options and color) and I go to Germany on business regularly so the trip is free and the experience ought to be a blast, not to mention saving several thousand. I consider this a test run and will probably do the same next time and actually make a vacation out of it.


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## gekisai29 (Jan 13, 2007)

seems to me the ED experiience would be, as the saying goes, priceless. that being said a friend just placed a 328 sedan order that still was approx $100/mo less than US delivery


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## HWF (Nov 29, 2006)

When doing an ED, you get a 2010 model. This has got to be worth several thousands of dollars more than a comparable 2009 model with its built-in one year's worth of depreciation


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## DonnaBlackson (May 14, 2006)

but not all 2010 models are available yet .......isnt it only cerain 5 series so far?? maybe you could have waited a year and you would have had another year of depreciation built in if you got a 2011,


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

M FUNF said:


> ED is really a special situation that defies price comparison. *I would not buy another "new" car if I were not doing ED*.


+1. I can't really justify buying a new car - the money lost on depreciation is insane, just to say you are the first owner. I paid big bucks for my e46 new, and its no different that one you could buy for a LOT less now. However, given the experience that is Euro Delivery, I can justify that, and I spent a lot more on the vacation than I saved on the car.


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## JSB0331 (Jun 3, 2009)

*ED savings*

I can't believe that none of you have been able to negotiate fantastic ED deals! I'm picking up my Monaco 335xi coupe 6sp. in 7/1 and I paid $39,555. It was stripped, but the cost was only $300 above wholesale dealer pricing. You need to find a dealer with large monthly volume who offers very aggressive pricing. There is NO way that I could have paid $39.5K for this car if I did not take ED. Remember, VAT is 19% on imports and BMW AG is thus not paying this money on the export side once the car is picked up by the client in Munich as it is then deemed to be a used car. Good luck to all...

JSB


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## DonnaBlackson (May 14, 2006)

who cares about the money lost on depreciation!! i mean, if you want the car, who cares! thats irrelevant if you just want the car! and who is to say a car is a bad investment these days anyway, i think i would rather invest in my new BMW than sink more money in the stock market ! what i am trying to say is who cares what it depreciates when you drive it off the lot, that suddenly its worth less, SO WHAT!


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

jlstone said:


> You are in a small group. I don't think too many people did M's back when their was no ED discount. Back when Porsche offered an ED discount they use to deliver cars a fair amount to Americans. Last time I was at the Porsche factory only one American was taking delivery that day. He was a US dealer getting their bonus allocation.
> 
> I love ED but I am not going to do it if I can get a better deal stateside.


That's fine for you, but if you read the posts on this forum you can see that many people have other reasons, but can justify it by the apparent economic benefits.


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

AZ-BMW said:


> Although ~7% off MSRP is still not chump change :thumbup:
> No MACO or Training Fee charged :thumbup:
> And the experience of driving around in Bavaria (or wherever) with free insurance and registration/tags (well, at least for 14 days) must be worth something :thumbup:
> Then there is the special Lufthansa 2-for-1 deal that can be attractive depending on the trip timing :thumbup:
> But I guess "ED doesn't make any sense right now" :dunno: :rofl:


If US discount is higher (after incentives), does not matter what ED discount is.
I never pay MACO or garbage fees so that's never an issue.
The Lufthansa "Deal" is a loser for most of us, but YMMV. And of course you'll be flying in the cattle section, which is somewhat horrendous from the west coast.

So I would agree, at present ED probably doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint for certain models when you add it all up. That's not to minimize the experience - which is fantastic - but if you are the type to buy a new car frequently then you might as well simply take the best deal and wait to do ED the next time around when it makes more economic sense.


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## mapezzul (Jun 14, 2005)

JSB0331 said:


> Mapezul,
> 
> I don't know what math you are using, but $38,560 AND $550 for metallic paint (which you did not include) is $39,180. Do the math. It's $375 over Dealer.


 Your correct and got a good deal... my bad and sincere apologies.



dalekressin said:


> Did your M3 deal go at $300 over inv Mazzul?


My deal was struck in a perfect market storm and actually got it below wholesale by a significant margin- those days are long gone and I just happen to be at the right place at the right time... unfortunately not an ED car so the savings would have been about the same as now M3s are available for ED.


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## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

Looking at it from a strict numbers perspective, European Delivery rarely "makes any sense," unless you were already going to be in Europe for another purpose and can do the pickup with minimum additional cost.


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

jkp1187 said:


> Looking at it from a strict numbers perspective, European Delivery rarely "makes any sense," unless you were already going to be in Europe for another purpose and can do the pickup with minimum additional cost.


That is patently false.

The minimum discount is around $2700 on a 3-series (assuming you could negotiate the same deal) and it goes up from there as it is 7% off US invoice.

RT air ticket to Germany is generally in the $500-800 range. Priceline hotel $60 for one night. So you save a minimum of $2000.

Of course, most people take advantage of the opportunity to take a Euro vacation and to have a free car during their vacation. In that case, the air ticket and hotel are really vacation costs, not auto acquisition costs, and there are additional savings on the auto rental which could range from $200-1000 depending on whether you take the full 2 weeks (and at the lower end you certainly wouldn't be getting a BMW rental).

Now if you have no interest in taking a Euro vacation or get 2 weeks annual vacation and don't want to spend a few days picking up your car then European delivery probably isn't the right choice. And no doubt at a certain income level the savings doesn't hit your radar, though most people I know don't fall into that category.


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

Boraxo said:


> The Lufthansa "Deal" is a loser for most of us, but *YMMV*. And of course you'll be flying in the cattle section, which is somewhat horrendous from the west coast.


YMMV is correct, but it is ALWAYS worth investigating. When we did our ED, Lufthansa accomadated 4 of us with a general discount that came out to $700/person RT JFK --> FRA and MUC-JFK. Plus, we got free tickets from FRA to CNG via the high-speed lufthansa train.

Was it timing? Good Luck? I don't know -- but it always worth a look at Lufthansa.

Plus, the food was good for airline food and drinks where great! And we sat near a bunch of Germans who had the whole plane singing drinking songs -- loved every minute!

I can understand not doing an ED if the deal is very lopsided, but from pure economic sense, unless the Euro is being beat up by the dollar, it should be considered a brand experience and not economic way to get a cheap car.


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## filmoreslim (Jul 2, 2009)

I am looking for the invoice pricing for 5 series ED. I have been searching and can't seem to find a list anywhere.

Thanks,

filmoreslim


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

filmoreslim said:


> I am looking for the invoice pricing for 5 series ED. I have been searching and can't seem to find a list anywhere.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> filmoreslim


Aren't they right here? :dunno:


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

Maybe time to resuscitate this thread?

I am looking at the current incentives, and the ED discount doesn't look so hot by comparison. Of course, that is not to diminish the value of the pleasure you get from picking up your car at the factory and breaking it in on the autobahn...


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

Boraxo said:


> Maybe time to resuscitate this thread?
> 
> I am looking at the current incentives, and the ED discount doesn't look so hot by comparison. Of course, that is not to diminish the value of the pleasure you get from picking up your car at the factory and breaking it in on the autobahn...


 Might help to narrow it down to which model you are looking at.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

If cost is the overriding consideration then you are missing the point of ED.


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## starkraven (Mar 19, 2010)

M FUNF said:


> If cost is the overriding consideration then you are missing the point of ED.


I don't think that's a fair criticism. Some may do it for the Welt experience, some may do it for the savings, and some may do it for the vacation. Others may do it for entirely different reasons.


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## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

Boraxo said:


> Maybe time to resuscitate this thread?
> 
> I am looking at the current incentives, and the ED discount doesn't look so hot by comparison. Of course, that is not to diminish the value of the pleasure you get from picking up your car at the factory and breaking it in on the autobahn...


Depends what MY and what model you are referring to. If you were to pick up a 2010 that qualifies for the $2,500 credit, you would still get ED discount + $2,500 credit for ED. If you were to pick up a 2011, neither US or ED delivery offers $2,500 credit. The ED discount is still better.

If you were comparing a 2010 that qualifies $2,500 and a 2011 that doesn't, well that's not a fair comparison at all.


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## first_car (Apr 12, 2010)

I am comparing 2010 vs 2011 ED on a 335i convertible

I feel 2011 works out to be cheaper...with automatic credit and free leather offsetting 2500 spring drive credit
This assumes you want these options to begin with...


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

starkraven said:


> I don't think that's a fair criticism. Some may do it for the Welt experience, some may do it for the savings, and some may do it for the vacation. Others may do it for entirely different reasons.


Doesn't that pretty much sum up the reasons for ED? (Perhaps "need a car in Europe for an extended stay" is another). But everyone has some mix of those reasons.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

outie said:


> Depends what MY and what model you are referring to. If you were to pick up a 2010 that qualifies for the $2,500 credit, you would still get ED discount + $2,500 credit for ED. If you were to pick up a 2011, neither US or ED delivery offers $2,500 credit. The ED discount is still better.
> 
> If you were comparing a 2010 that qualifies $2,500 and a 2011 that doesn't, well that's not a fair comparison at all.


Fianlly some sense on this and related topics! :thumbup: Also, consider what you *really *want (using 328 Tourings as an example):

If you want to save money and take immediate delivery, my local dealer recently got in three 2010 328 wagons, all BMWNA demos, all with very low mileage and in very nice shape. They had a variety of options. If someone wanted a Touring right now, this would be a great option.

If, OTOH, you were willing to wait for a 2011 equipped just the way you wanted, saw the advantage of using it for two weeks (or more) in Europe, and were willing to wait for re-delivery, ordering a Touring for ED makes a lot of sense. (At least to me.  )


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## starkraven (Mar 19, 2010)

outie said:


> If you were to pick up a 2010 that qualifies for the $2,500 credit, you would still get ED discount + $2,500 credit for ED.


I don't think they're producing 2010s any more, so the ED door on those is closed.


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## outie (Nov 23, 2009)

Right, but I was referring to the situation where you still had a choice a few months back. That was the only fair comparison between US and ED. If you want to refer to the current situation, again you get no spring credit for MY2011 but you can get ED discount.


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