# Napa vs Montana Leather



## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

What's the difference? Is Natural Brown Leather Napa or Montana?


----------



## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Nappa and Montana refers to the grade of leather. Nappa is more supple and higher quality (used in the E46 M3, for example), while Montana is stiffer, has more grain and is markedly less expensive. The Natural Brown in your 330i will be Montana.


----------



## jl5555 (Jan 28, 2003)

I was at the dealer yesterday ordering my 2005 sparkling graphite 330cic with black leather interior. They had a 2004 M3 convertible in the showroom with the light brown nappa leather interior. During a lull in the proceedings I went over to feel up the car and carress that nice leather on the seats for a while. Ahhh, it was like butter!


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

icemanjs4 said:


> What's the difference? Is Natural Brown Leather Napa or Montana?


Napa good. :bigpimp:

Montana, might as well have gotten leatherette. :thumbdwn:

Also, you can pay more and a cooperative dealer can custom order napa for your E46, but it might be too late for you...


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I know Montana has herds of cattle, but never knew there were cattle herds in Napa Valley. :eeps:


----------



## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

Stuka said:


> Montana, might as well have gotten leatherette. :thumbdwn:


Big difference between leatherette and Montana Leather, IMO, actually no comparison. I just checked out a friend's new 325i with leatherette against my new 330i leather, it's obvious his interior is not leather, again, IMO. At least in sand, maybe black is closer.


----------



## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

Yes, black looks much better. The texture is different, but the Montana isn't worth it - at least not with the poor durability.


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

markl53 said:


> Big difference between leatherette and Montana Leather, IMO, actually no comparison. I just checked out a friend's new 325i with leatherette against my new 330i leather, it's obvious his interior is not leather, again, IMO. At least in sand, maybe black is closer.


Have you seen Napa leather in person? Montana is crap next to it. :thumbdwn:

In fact, for the coins that BMW is charging, Napa should be the only leather option. :tsk:


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

I agree that the Napa feels and looks much better than the Montana when new, but I wonder how they'll compare when they're both 5 years old? :dunno: 

Alex


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I know everyone likes the Nappa better because its smoother. I've seen lots of examples of both (live in Munich for a year and used to stop by the main BMW dealer a lot), and I actually prefer the grainier texture and more rugged feel of the Montana. To me, its actually less like Vinyl because it has a more leather-like texture. I really don't think it makes a big difference in terms of comfort; the softness of the seat is really determined by the foam, not a thin layer of leather. Plus, I think the Montana wears better. The Montana also seems kind of distinctive in that the leather in every other car i've been in has more of a processed, smooth feel to it. So, yes, even if someone offered me free Nappa, I'd still choose Montana.


----------



## Double Vanos (Aug 20, 2003)

:stupid:


robg said:


> I know everyone likes the Nappa better because its smoother. I've seen lots of examples of both (live in Munich for a year and used to stop by the main BMW dealer a lot), and I actually prefer the grainier texture and more rugged feel of the Montana. To me, its actually less like Vinyl because it has a more leather-like texture. I really don't think it makes a big difference in terms of comfort; the softness of the seat is really determined by the foam, not a thin layer of leather. Plus, I think the Montana wears better. The Montana also seems kind of distinctive in that the leather in every other car i've been in has more of a processed, smooth feel to it. So, yes, even if someone offered me free Nappa, I'd still choose Montana.


----------



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> I agree that the Napa feels and looks much better than the Montana when new, but I wonder how they'll compare when they're both 5 years old? :dunno:
> 
> Alex


That doesn't seem to be too important these days (where most cars in the US are leased, and the majority of owners will never find out about longevity).

Nappa wears very quickly. BMW GB reports of a higher than expected rate of return on M3 side bolsters (nappa is standard on M3 here); nappa leather on other cars is not recommended if you plan to use the car for anything other than gentle urban cruising (unlike Montana, it shows marks and scuffs very easily). I don't understand the rollicking Montana gets either - it might not be smooth, but at least it looks like leather, and is very hard wearing, especially if you resist the temptation to soak it in leather product gunge every three months.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> That doesn't seem to be too important these days (where most cars in the US are leased, and the majority of owners will never find out about longevity).
> 
> Nappa wears very quickly. BMW GB reports of a higher than expected rate of return on M3 side bolsters (nappa is standard on M3 here); nappa leather on other cars is not recommended if you plan to use the car for anything other than gentle urban cruising (unlike Montana, it shows marks and scuffs very easily). I don't understand the rollicking Montana gets either - it might not be smooth, but at least it looks like leather, and is very hard wearing, especially if you resist the temptation to soak it in leather product gunge every three months.


I must be one of the rare US owners who plan on keeping their car a long time. After just short of a year and about 8K miles, my driver side bolster is showing wear. I've developed a contortionist method of entry to lessen the effect. The one thing I miss from my Lincoln is the automatic seat that moved itself all the way back when the key is turned off or when the door is unlocked.

Alex


----------



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> I must be one of the rare US owners who plan on keeping their car a long time. After just short of a year and about 8K miles, my driver side bolster is showing wear.


If UK dealers are prepared to trim and match new leather for the bolsters, you can bet US dealers will too!


----------



## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

BahnBaum said:


> I must be one of the rare US owners who plan on keeping their car a long time. After just short of a year and about 8K miles, my driver side bolster is showing wear. I've developed a contortionist method of entry to lessen the effect. The one thing I miss from my Lincoln is the automatic seat that moved itself all the way back when the key is turned off or when the door is unlocked.
> 
> Alex


I set my unused memory position 3 as my "exit position". When I shut off the key I just reach down and hit button 3 if I want to...

However, since I just got my 330i the other day, I had been under the impression that my key would access seat memory setting #1, but now I understand that the key "remembers" the last seat position when the key is used to lock the car. So, my plan in using #3 for exit probably means I'll also have to press #1 when I get back in. IMO, the keys should be linked to the seat memory settings.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

markl53 said:


> I set my unused memory position 3 as my "exit position". When I shut off the key I just reach down and hit button 3 if I want to...
> 
> However, since I just got my 330i the other day, I had been under the impression that my key would access seat memory setting #1, but now I understand that the key "remembers" the last seat position when the key is used to lock the car. So, my plan in using #3 for exit probably means I'll also have to press #1 when I get back in. IMO, the keys should be linked to the seat memory settings.


Yeah, I've used #1 and #3 for the same purposes. (#2 is used for my autox setting). Getting out is no problem, but using it to get in is kind of a pain.

BTW, I thought the keys were linked to the seat memory settings, its just that it returns it to the last used one....

Alex


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> Yeah, I've used #1 and #3 for the same purposes. (#2 is used for my autox setting). Getting out is no problem, but using it to get in is kind of a pain.
> 
> BTW, I thought the keys were linked to the seat memory settings, its just that it returns it to the last used one....
> 
> Alex


There's a trick to having pristine side bolsters. :bigpimp:

Get manual seats. :thumbup:

When you want to get out, just slide it all the way back, and with manual seats, it takes less than a second. You'll never rub the side bolster this way.

The second advantage of this, along with rolling down the coupe window, is that it allows you to get out of the car in very tight garage spaces.


----------



## Rob325_in_AZ (Oct 22, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> ... and is very hard wearing, especially if you resist the temptation to soak it in leather product gunge every three months.


 :yikes: I thought I was prolonging the life by wiping (not soaking) it with a leather cleaner/conditioner product (like Griot's) every few months. Is this not the case?


----------



## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

*unused seat memory*



> I set my unused memory position 3 as my "exit position". When I shut off the key I just reach down and hit button 3 if I want to...


Ok, this is a really good idea! I'm only using #1--normal driving position and #3--slightly forward postion for when my windscreen is installed so it doesn't rub the back of the headrest. #2 is completely free.

After 11 months and only 3.5K VERY pampered miles, the _only_ place on my car--inside or out--that is showing any sign of wear and doesn't look exactly the way it did when I took delivery (albeit minor wear) is the left side bolster of the drivers seat. I was just noticing this the other day.

I wish I'd thought of it sooner; what a simple but effective trick. I'm programming it tomorrow!

Thanks!!

--J.


----------



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Rob325_in_AZ said:


> :yikes: I thought I was prolonging the life by wiping (not soaking) it with a leather cleaner/conditioner product (like Griot's) every few months. Is this not the case?


There seem to be two schools of thought. (1) Buy as many expensive leather products as you can, and use them regularly; (2) leave them alone and try not to get them dirty. If you do, wipe with a clean, damp cloth.

I have experience of looking after three other BMWs of varying vintages, all of which had leather (an '88 735i, '95 318is and '01 530i). None of them have ever seen chemicals. When the 735i was sold its (dark blue) leather was fine, with no cracks or splits, just the patina associated with age; the other two are also absolutely fine. I did try a bottle of BMW leather care stuff on my own car a year ago, then I stopped. It seems to have made no difference; the leather on the driver's seats still looks like the leather on the never-sat-in seat right behind it.


----------



## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> There seem to be two schools of thought. (1) Buy as many expensive leather products as you can, and use them regularly; (2) leave them alone and try not to get them dirty. If you do, wipe with a clean, damp cloth.
> 
> I have experience of looking after three other BMWs of varying vintages, all of which had leather (an '88 735i, '95 318is and '01 530i). None of them have ever seen chemicals. When the 735i was sold its (dark blue) leather was fine, with no cracks or splits, just the patina associated with age; the other two are also absolutely fine. I did try a bottle of BMW leather care stuff on my own car a year ago, then I stopped. It seems to have made no difference; the leather on the driver's seats still looks like the leather on the never-sat-in seat right behind it.


I tend to buy light-colored interiors and in general have had no problem keeping them clean. Every three months or so I might use a mild leather cleaner/conditioner just to keep the surface free of built-up soil. Most recently I had an MB and used their (Meguiar's) product and it worked very well, no sheen, etc. This is my first BMW, and recently, I've looked inside several sand-interiored models that are probably several years old. The leather has looked pretty bad, with a lot of soiling. I'm wondering if those people were the "average" types that really don't take care of the interior, or whether there's a "problem" with the leather material in general.


----------



## Fifty_Cent (Sep 17, 2003)

markl53 said:


> I tend to buy light-colored interiors and in general have had no problem keeping them clean. Every three months or so I might use a mild leather cleaner/conditioner just to keep the surface free of built-up soil. Most recently I had an MB and used their (Meguiar's) product and it worked very well, no sheen, etc. This is my first BMW, and recently, I've looked inside several sand-interiored models that are probably several years old. The leather has looked pretty bad, with a lot of soiling. I'm wondering if those people were the "average" types that really don't take care of the interior, or whether there's a "problem" with the leather material in general.


My view is that leather should not be left to dry out. This is particularly the case in hot / very hot climates. Leather conditioner should ONLY be used when the leather feels dried out, and only then. 
I n cold climates, using a clean damp cotton cloth to clean the leather should be adequate, and leahter conditioner should be used every 2-3 years.

I only use leather conditioner in summer. We get 40C every summer here, so use the conditioner every month. Also, trying to avoid direct sunlight is a must for leather longevity.
In winter time, I leave the leather well alone. Now, we have temperatures of 3-10C, and leather conditioner is not needed.


----------

