# Help on a 2010 335i Lease



## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

Hello all,

I have been looking to buy my first BMW, and have done quite a bit of reading on this forum. I figured it was a great place to ask my question. I appreciate your help in advance!

I have been quoted the following, and I would like to know if it's a fair offer or if I am missing something. Although I have read a lot of info, I am still new to leasing and the art of spotting charges--so any help as I said, is much appreciated:

- 2010 335i Sedan
- M Sport Package
- Space Grey Metallic
- Black Leather
- Premium Package
- 6-sp Manual
- Keyless entry
- Sat Radio with 1 year
- iPod/USB adapter
- Above for $49325
- Some "floor mats, and teflon protection" bogus stuff for $674--which dealer said this charge can't be taken out??
- Total MSRP $49999

$1000 lease cash-back
$2500 rebate
Residual .57
MF .0026
Term 36 months
15k miles/yr
Acq Fee $925
Doc Fee $100
Total initial payment of $3555 (obtained by $2500 rebate, plus $1055 out of pocket cash)
Security deposit waived

Monthly of $821

Basically, the MSRP is the same as if you build the car with those options on the website--so I'd be paying MSRP (plus bogus floor mats stuff)...am I wrong to think that it seems very high?
When I compare it to the lease rates on BMWUSA.com--but then again the MF and residuals aren't shown--it seem high...Trying to figure it all out, and breaking my brain in the process. LOL! 

Since the $2500 rebate is not applied to MSRP, would I be better off applying it there? That rebate basically pays for the taxes ($2900, in Texas)...

Hopefully this is enough information to be of use. It's late! I would expect to take delivery on Thursday...so I still have some time to understand it all better.


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## Yay-Z (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah seems very high, you should look at the 2010 invoice pricing sheet and run the numbers yourself with all those options, should come out alot lower. 

Are you in Houston?


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## cc4005 (Sep 1, 2009)

StanleyCup99 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> - Some "floor mats, and teflon protection" bogus stuff for $674--which dealer said this charge can't be taken out??


Trust your BS meter. This is essentially just another dealer mark-up.

As Yay-Z mentions, I recommend you research the invoice numbers for the car as optioned out. Add a bit for reasonable dealer profit based on what others are paying in your area (this will take some research, but the info is out there...on these forums and elsewhere), and make an offer. Of course, the lease terms also need to be competitive as well. I don't know much about 3er deals, but the MF sounds a bit high to me.

In the end, you have to be willing to walk away from the deal if you can't get the terms you want.


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## 335Fanatic (Aug 6, 2009)

StanleyCup99 - what's the "$1000 lease cash-back"?

Also what's the selling price of the car?


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## Pele96 (Sep 26, 2006)

I got a 2010 335I Sedan. MSRP was $51,000 got it for $48,000...Monthy payment 727.00 not money down at all except for month's payment. Tax is included in monthly payment.


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

335Fanatic said:


> StanleyCup99 - what's the "$1000 lease cash-back"?
> 
> Also what's the selling price of the car?


Hi, thanks for your help.

The $1000 lease cash-back is a special that BMW is doing right now.
The price of the car is:

$49325 MSRP + $674 for "floor mats" - $1000 = $48,999


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

Being that this is the only car with the 6-sp manual and M Package anywhere in the US right now, I am not sure I have much of a negotiating stand vs. the dealer. If I don't take this one car, then I would have to wait until 2010 and get some cars arriving into lots to be able to deal better... that is very aggravating. Agree this is my position?

Thanks again, all.


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## FJUNO78 (Nov 18, 2006)

StanleyCup99 said:


> Being that this is the only car with the 6-sp manual and M Package anywhere in the US right now, I am not sure I have much of a negotiating stand vs. the dealer. If I don't take this one car, then I would have to wait until 2010 and get some cars arriving into lots to be able to deal better... that is very aggravating. Agree this is my position?
> 
> Thanks again, all.


no.

2010's will start trickeling into dealerships soon if they have not yet. Also, you can order one and probably have it delivered by Late December.

For $800+ I would want to be in a M3 not a 135i


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## 335Fanatic (Aug 6, 2009)

StanleyCup99 said:


> Being that this is the only car with the 6-sp manual and M Package anywhere in the US right now, I am not sure I have much of a negotiating stand vs. the dealer. If I don't take this one car, then I would have to wait until 2010 and get some cars arriving into lots to be able to deal better... that is very aggravating. Agree this is my position?
> 
> Thanks again, all.


Wait! Is the car you're talking about 2009 or 2010??


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## [email protected] (Jul 6, 2008)

*Taking a stab at it*

I am going to attempt to put things in perspective but the details are slightly confusing on your deal.

2010 335i Sedan
BASE MF: .00205 (can be raised by dealer for extra profit)
YOUR MF: .00260

Residual: 57% (cannot be changed by dealer)
Your Residual: 57%

The MSRP of the car with teflon is $49,999
The Selling price of the car is: $XX,XXX (cannot be obtained from the OP)

Doc. Fee: $100
Registration: $XXX

BASE BANK FEE: $725 (can be raised by dealer for extra profit)
YOUR BANK FEE: $925

Current Incentives: $2,500 Holiday Cash (taxable upfront like cap cost reduction)
NO $1,000 lease cash!

The questions left to be answered are:

1) What is the selling price of the car?
2) How much are the Registration fees in Texas?
3) What is the amount dealer wants from you at signing?
4) What is the amount that you will see on your monthly bill (total with taxes)?


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## pwrdbym (Feb 26, 2009)

Don't fall into the old trap of negoiating a price based on monthly payment. It appears that your dealer is not discounting the car at all. What they are doing is saying that the 2,500 rebate is the discount. This money comes from BMW and not the dealer. Ask them what XXX BMW is going to sell you the car for, get that amount (no more than $500 over invoice?) and then take the reabtes into effect only after you have a sale price. There isn't any need to pay MSRP for a car, even one in short supply. You can simply order what you want at an agreed upon value -and from another dealer if need be.


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## Vanos4:12PM (Apr 20, 2007)

Have you taken a look at the 2010 invoice pricing sheet yet? see below

http://www.bimmerfest.com/pdf/pricing/2010/2010-3-Series-Sedan-Pricing.pdf

If I were in your shoes, I would order one spec out to your options and like others stated above, you could have it by Dec. I would also check around at some other dealers. I'm sure TX and it appears you are in the Dallas area have several dealers around.

6.24% APR sounds high too.


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

335Fanatic said:


> Wait! Is the car you're talking about 2009 or 2010??


It is indeed a 2010.
What I meant to say is that there are zero 2010s (or 2009s) available with the specs I want right now...unless I order one and take delivery around December, as someone pointed out in another reply.

Thanks for replying.


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

Best Buy Leasin said:


> I am going to attempt to put things in perspective but the details are slightly confusing on your deal.
> 
> 2010 335i Sedan
> BASE MF: .00205 (can be raised by dealer for extra profit)
> ...


Thank you for replying. I will go to the dealer tomorrow to get a better breakdown than what the "lease worksheet" the dealer has provided shows, probably bring all that home to study better. Here is what I can answer for now:

1) The selling price is MSRP ($49,325) + dealer add-on stuff ($674) = $49,999 - $1,000 BMW lease cash-bash applied as cap reduction = $48,999
2) Taxes are $2,900, gov't fees are $140, and doc fees are $100
3) Amt due at signing, $1,055 drive-off. That is because BMW is doing a special where they give you a $2,500 rebate up front...but from what i can see, it doesn't apply it as a cap reduction. It's more than anything--as i read it--basically paying for the taxes (see above). Also, for reference, leasing in Texas is apparently different (http://www.leaseguide.com/Articles/texas-auto-lease.htm) than in other states
4) $821 by paying $1,055 as listed above. For reference, if I do say $4,000 up front, then the payment goes to $728


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

pwrdbym said:


> Don't fall into the old trap of negoiating a price based on monthly payment. It appears that your dealer is not discounting the car at all. What they are doing is saying that the 2,500 rebate is the discount. This money comes from BMW and not the dealer. Ask them what XXX BMW is going to sell you the car for, get that amount (no more than $500 over invoice?) and then take the reabtes into effect only after you have a sale price. There isn't any need to pay MSRP for a car, even one in short supply. You can simply order what you want at an agreed upon value -and from another dealer if need be.


Thanks for your reply.

You nailed it right on. They are using the $2,500 amount to basically pay my taxes (which comes to $2,600 for this purchase). Then, the discount of $1,000 (which *is* applied as a cap reduction) is basically offset by their adding the $674 in bogus floor mats and teflon coating.

One thing I am trying to understand is how much of a difference does it make *where* an amount is applied. For example, let's assume that I could apply those $2,500 anywhere. If I leave it as they have it, it pays up front for my taxes. But if I were to apply it to the deal as a cap reduction, would it be better? What about applying it as multiple security deposits? Is *that* better? That's the kind of thing that has me confused...

I appreciate y'all taking the time to help.


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

Vanos4:12PM said:


> Have you taken a look at the 2010 invoice pricing sheet yet? see below
> 
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/pdf/pricing/2010/2010-3-Series-Sedan-Pricing.pdf
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I looked at the sheet, and the retail price came out to $51,525, while the invoice price came out to $47,370. After the $1,000 discount, plus the $674 floor mats (I still shake my head at that), then the sales price for my deal is $48999...which is $1,629 over invoice.

According to Edmunds' "What People Are Paying", it shows $51,412. Perhaps my sales price is not horrible?


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

Pele96 said:


> I got a 2010 335I Sedan. MSRP was $51,000 got it for $48,000...Monthy payment 727.00 not money down at all except for month's payment. Tax is included in monthly payment.


Thanks Pele96.
It sounds very similar to mine. I wonder if perhaps our MF is what was different. I wish I could say I have the highest credit score in the world, but no...it's only above average 
Oh, where is my youth! LOL!


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## pcmike (Jan 4, 2003)

I'm going to add all your options up per the pricing guide and put it into the spreadsheet that is floating around on here..... give me 20mins..


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## StanleyCup99 (Nov 4, 2009)

pcmike said:


> I'm going to add all your options up per the pricing guide and put it into the spreadsheet that is floating around on here..... give me 20mins..


Much appreciated pcmike!


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## pcmike (Jan 4, 2003)

Invoice price is: $45,545
MSRP price is: $49,325
Link to spreadsheet: http://adios.pcmike.net/~pcmike/stanley_335i.xls

That $2,500 is a cap cost reduction..... so if they're not giving it to you as such, they're doing something wrong. What this $1,000 is I have no idea. I'd try to get them to agree to a sale price of no more than about $46,800. Then apply the $2,500 lease cash + this $1,000 you are talking about. But even if the sales price was $49,325 - $3,500 AND assuming $2,000 for inceptions (rolled into payment) I get a monthly payment of $723 (cap cost: $45,825). Tax would be around $1,300+ but its not figured into the payment and would likely be closer to $1,500+ after the deal is said and done. I think the $2,000 is pretty generous for inceptions if their definition of inceptions includes: 1st months payment, tag, acq fee, dealer/doc fee. Probably way more than what most would give on here.

At any rate I'll attach the spreadsheet in a few. Play around with it. Go to the dealer and get them to agree to a straight sales price on the car. Adjust the spreadsheet to represent what you think they'll accept and see what your monthly payment is based on the spreadsheet. Then ask them what they are getting as your monthly. If it varies by more than about $10/m, you know they're not using anywhere near the same numbers you are and are trying to play games! ASK TO SEE THEIR SCREEN AND/OR PRINT OUT THE SHEET. Don't back down! There is absolutely no reason they can't show you the dang screen! Also don't accept dumb answers like "this is the way we present all of our lease deals, if you don't like the numbers then finance the car." Just be calm and reasonable and tell them you don't get into deals where you don't know all the parameters up front and see them in writing!

Your current deal is pretty much highway robbery... they're not doing you any favors at all.

P.S. I didn't include their bogus $674.... tell them you didn't want any teflon coating and on a $50K car they can "throw in the mats." Complete rubbish.

ALSO....... I just saw you said a MF of .00260.... that's extremely marked up! The current base rate is .00205! Ask them why they're making it up so much and demand it be lowered within reason. If you don't pay a security deposit I think there is a surcharge of like .00015 or something, but not .00055!

EDIT: According to three other threads in this forum... I guess the $2,500 lease cash comes with a 60 (actually 55 from my math) point bump in MF.. which is why the one they quoted you is so high. It's the old..... six of one, half dozen of another wording. Might as well just not even figure in the $2,500 and use the base rate.


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