# BMW Focus Group



## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

Robert A said:


> I would agree, but I'm stumped that they aren't bringing anything to the market in the near term while they explore their long-range plans to develop hydrogen. Meanwhile, read this article about BMW's hopes to cure global warming: http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/18301/
> 
> The most efficient production BMW sold in the U.S. presently is the 328i, and in city driving on surface streets, that car only gets in the mid-teens of fuel economy. That's embarrassing for a company that proclaims itself as "green".
> 
> They have other cars that could easily be offered here such as the 330d or the 320d, both of which are 30% to 50% more efficient. VW has already announced that they're bringing in a common rail, 50-state diesel next spring in their high-performance Jetta JLI models. Mercedes already has a Bluetec diesel that it's selling in 45 states. Why can't BMW do the same?


Great thread...thanks for starting it!

BMWs are amazing cars from the inside out....but they are so NOT green that I gave mine up. I will not own another BMW until they get substantially better fuel economy AND run on renewable fuel such as bio-diesel. In the next few years this might be a reality since BMW has already announced that the diesels are on their way. I fear that BMW will fail to address the bio-diesel issue even though American bio maunfacturers make high quality ASTM-D6751 standard fuel. ( http://www.markhoppehomes.com/what-is-biodiesel.asp ) VW's TDI engines just love to burn this pure bio.

BMW should use it's talents to create Ultimate EcoFriendly Driving Machines:

The 535d/335d/135d biodiesel compatible hybrid.......I just wonder what letter will designate the electric parts since "E" was used by BMW long ago and "H" might be reserved for Hydrogen. V for volts would be good but it sounds like a v-engine (V8 etc) so that might not work.............


----------



## Bartman32 (Apr 13, 2007)

I just don't understand why BMW doesn't expirement with the Mini. I would think that a Hybrid Mini would sell VERY well.


----------



## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

Bartman32 said:


> I just don't understand why BMW doesn't expirement with the Mini. I would think that a Hybrid Mini would sell VERY well.


Good point....Mini drivers fit right into the tree hugger demographic. (and I mean that in a good way):bigpimp:


----------



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

MarcusSDCA said:


> I just wonder what letter will designate the electric parts since "E" was used by BMW long ago and "H" might be reserved for Hydrogen. V for volts would be good but it sounds like a v-engine (V8 etc) so that might not work.............


E was used for the H or eta engine. Since H = efficiency, no reason it could not be used as this car would presumably be quite energy efficient.

(wow, Bimmerfest apparently can't handle greek letters so the lower case eta has to go; fortunately, the uppercase eta looks like an H in English and in fact the Latin H is a descendant of the letter eta)


----------



## dihedral (Jun 27, 2007)

We need a BMW the size of a town car with the guts of a twin turbo NorthStar.


----------



## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

dihedral said:


> We need a BMW the size of a town car with the guts of a twin turbo NorthStar.


Then get this one:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Vehicles/7/alpinab7


----------



## Hammerwerfer (Aug 8, 2003)

I really like the idea of H2 powered internal combustion engines. 

Sure, the infrastructure isn't in place yet to fuel them, and the H2 has to be produced by burning coal, but think ahead. Do you want an internal combustion engine or a soulless electric motor? 

As far as generating the electricity to produce the hydrogen, we have only scratched the surface for new sources such as tidal and ocean current generation.

Sure the current fuel tank is bulky, and the range limited, but once an infrastructure is in place and the need for dual fuel systems eliminated, this will not be such a problem.

I am glad to see BMW bucking the trend and pursuing this route.


----------



## 2nynbak (Jan 28, 2007)

Having an hydrogen powered 7 series driving around California reminds me of GM showcasing their electric cars over the years. These efforts are more PR events to pick up green press while their real 7 seres continue to gas guzzle. BMW is now conspicuously behind the Japanese on hybrid cars and MB and VW on diesels in the US market. The H car is a stopgap PR effort until the diesels come over here.


----------



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

The hydrogen effort at BMW is sincere. Most people in the auto industry see diesels as a very short term solution. BMW sees hydrogen as the fuel of choice perhaps 20 years out.

Given the amount of money they are investing in this, I don't think it's mere PR. There is a certain amount of PR in this but I believe it is more about building the first luxury performance fleet of production vehicles powered by LH2 and learning from this experience.


----------



## 2nynbak (Jan 28, 2007)

JSpira said:


> The hydrogen effort at BMW is sincere. Most people in the auto industry see diesels as a very short term solution. BMW sees hydrogen as the fuel of choice perhaps 20 years out.
> 
> Given the amount of money they are investing in this, I don't think it's mere PR. There is a certain amount of PR in this but I believe it is more about building the first luxury performance fleet of production vehicles powered by LH2 and learning from this experience.


BMW UK takes delivery first hydrogen-powered cars

Last Updated on Sunday 13th May 2007 at 10:00

Direct from the factory - BMW UK takes delivery of its first fleet of the world's first hydrogen-powered emissions-free luxury saloon cars
"Our EfficientDynamics programme has introduced energy-saving technologies that break through the 60 miles per gallon and one hundred and twenty grams per kilometre CO2 barriers, our new diesels are cleaner and greener than many of today's hybrids, yet power and performance in all of our cars has improved. Clean, green motoring can also be engaging and dynamic, and the new BMW Hydrogen 7 models epitomise that philosophy," O'Donnell concluded.

The fleet of liquid hydrogen powered cars is set to continue its rigorous programme of driving activities on UK roads. They will be in active service as support vehicles at a number of high profile events over the summer as well as transporting key participants at industrial, business and political conferences. A select group of high-profile VIP users will also take delivery of a car for short periods of time in order to experience the 'normality' of emissions-free motoring.

Nissan Plans Diesel SUV
To Test Japan Acceptance
By YOSHIO TAKAHASHI
August 7, 2007
Nissan Motor Co. said will launch a diesel-powered version of its X-Trail sport-utility vehicle in the domestic market by autumn 2008, testing the Japanese appetite for such fuel-saving cars.

The launch comes almost two-and-half years ahead of schedule and reflects the pressure on auto makers and consumers from high fuel costs. Nissan's last diesel passenger-car offering in Japan was the Sunny in 2002.

Diesel engines in general are 20% to 30% more fuel efficient and emit less carbon dioxide than gasoline engines. But diesel isn't as popular in Japan as in Europe, where about half of all cars sold are powered by diesel engines. Only 0.1% of passenger cars sold in 2006 in Japan were diesel powered, mainly because such cars are considered dirty and noisy, industry players say.

BMW may see hydrogen as a viable fuel 20 years from now but given that half the cars sold in Germany are now diesel and that the H 7 series is being used as a highly visible green vehicle both here and in the UK for public relations. Hopefully, BMW's highly desirable fuel saving clean diesels will be exported here soon. I'm sure they hear the competition's footsteps.


----------



## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

For some reason, I am leery of yet another German-built, hydrogen powered transportation conveyance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZ_129_Hindenburg


----------



## 2nynbak (Jan 28, 2007)

http://www.hydrogenassociation.org/general/factSheet_history.pdf

This link shows how difficult it can be to take the achievable and make it practical. According to the Hydrogen Association a German engineer converted internal combustion engines to burn hydrogen nearly 90 years ago and we are still waiting for a practical H car.


----------

