# Drove a 2005 Boxter today. I'm destroyed!



## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

OMG, I couldn't believe how well the base Boxter drives! I'm forever polluted by a genuine drivers car. My E39 will always be comfortable, but now it's just a well-made German sedan. Granted, I'm not a convertable guy (I wouldn't really buy a Boxter until a coupe becomes available), but the genuine soul, the handling, the German feel really impressed me.

-Robert A


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

The new Boxster Coupe is coming at the end of this year and will bear the name 'Cayman'


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

Do you have a link?

Are you referring to the C7S spy pic featured here:

http://www.autocarmagazine.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=213069&EL_ID=3110603&ST=fromcurrentresults



Alex Baumann said:


> The new Boxster Coupe is coming at the end of this year and will bear the name 'Cayman'


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Yup, that is it.

http://forums.germancarfans.com/zerothread?id=13211

http://forums.germancarfans.com/zerothread?id=13332

Same info was on the german news as well.


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Robert A said:


> OMG, I couldn't believe how well the base Boxter drives! I'm forever polluted by a genuine drivers car. My E39 will always be comfortable, but now it's just a well-made German sedan. Granted, I'm not a convertable guy (I wouldn't really buy a Boxter until a coupe becomes available), but the genuine soul, the handling, the German feel really impressed me.
> 
> -Robert A


I'd never buy a car that won't let me see the engine let alone have access to it :thumbdwn:

Ed


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

its about time the boxster came with a respectable engine size..but still 300 hp.....hmmmm


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## Robert A (May 18, 2003)

What part of a BMW engine CAN you see?



EdCT said:


> I'd never buy a car that won't let me see the engine let alone have access to it :thumbdwn:
> 
> Ed


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## black1444 (Jan 13, 2005)

Robert A said:


> What part of a BMW engine CAN you see?


The engine cover......


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> The new Boxster Coupe is coming at the end of this year and will bear the name 'Cayman'


Does this mean that in a couple of years the turbo version won't be called S, but rather Grand Cayman?


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

Dont mistake the boxster for a porsche.

Porshe has engine in the back. Boxter doesnt.

I had a 1999 996 and it was a dog with its 294 HP. What does the new boxter have? I remember the Gen 1 Boxsters had like 190 or something.


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

I'm looking foward to the Boxster Coupe as well. :thumbup:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Dont mistake the boxster for a porsche.
> 
> Porshe has engine in the back. Boxter doesnt.
> 
> I had a 1999 996 and it was a dog with its 294 HP. What does the new boxter have? I remember the Gen 1 Boxsters had like 190 or something.


This is not a Porsche then?










Maybe not, since it cost 20% less than the regular 968 coupe, yet was a vastly better car.

Why can't BMW do this? Sell a stripped out performance M3 at a 20% discount.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> Why can't BMW do this? Sell a stripped out performance M3 at a 20% discount.


Just order a stripper M3 ED, otherwise it is more expensive to manufacture limited-edition models, and rarely makes financial sense since the market for such vehicles in woefully small. See: M3 LTW.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

philippek said:


> Just order a stripper M3 ED, otherwise it is more expensive to manufacture limited-edition models, and rarely makes financial sense since the market for such vehicles in woefully small. See: M3 LTW.


That's totally not the same - sure it'll be a little lighter, but otherwise it's the same car. I want a factory tuned special like the 968 Club Sport. A BMW "Club Sport" is usually just a Poseur Package.

I will say that I applaud BMW for letting you get manual seats and no sunroof on most of their sporty cars - if you're into saving weight.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> That's totally not the same - sure it'll be a little lighter, but otherwise it's the same car. I want a factory tuned special like the 968 Club Sport. A BMW "Club Sport" is usually just a Poseur Package.
> 
> I will say that I applaud BMW for letting you get manual seats and no sunroof on most of their sporty cars - if you're into saving weight.


What you're talking about is the CSL...just don't expect to get a 20% discount, more like a 30% mark-up.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> This is not a Porsche then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :rofl:

no. Most porsche guys are purists.

Rear engine. Air cooled. Normally aspirated.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Air cooled.


So unless you have a 7 year-old Porsche or older, it ain't gin-u-wine?


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

philippek said:


> So unless you have a 7 year-old Porsche or older, it ain't gin-u-wine?


Hahaha. Wow. 7 years. I feel old.

I am in between. The best modern porsche is the 1997 911 Turbo S.

I dont think the 928, or 944, or boxter is genuine porsche. The boxter falls in the same category as the 914 did. The 912 is a genuine porsche in all respects but it was very lame.

Porsche has always concentrated on the 911 (996, 997 - whatever) because its genuine porsche and will be the lasting model.

I am not a huge porsche fan but I have had 1 or 2 in my day.

Why get a boxter over a couple year old 996?


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Normally aspirated.





04E46 said:


> The best modern porsche is the 1997 911 Turbo S.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

philippek said:


>


Thats why I said

"I am in between. " 

Some of these porsche nuts will even go as far asy saying "real porsches are 4 speed"

whoopie.


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## WileECoyote (May 7, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Dont mistake the boxster for a porsche.
> 
> Porshe has engine in the back. Boxter doesnt.


Ok, then, where is the engine?

I drove a regular Boxster back in 1999, and it drove well, but wasn't worth the cost. It needed a lot more oomph to justify the $55K price. Back then, off-lease ones were selling for the same price as new ones because people were desperate to have one. Anyone else remember when Porsche was saying the Boxster would be $30,000?

I went with a Z3 instead, mainly because I liked the overall package a lot more, and I wasn't about to pay a premium for an average-performance vehicle. :bigpimp:


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

WileECoyote said:


> Ok, then, where is the engine?
> 
> :bigpimp:


Its in the middle. In front of the rear wheels. Mid engine.


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## machmeter (Aug 6, 2002)

04E46 said:


> Its in the middle. In front of the rear wheels. Mid engine.


Kinda hard to put the engine _behind_ the rear wheels and still have it be in the middle.  :stickpoke


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## WileECoyote (May 7, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Its in the middle. In front of the rear wheels. Mid engine.


Sounds like it's "in the back" to me! Give it a rest, you couldn't even spell Porsche or Boxster correctly in your initial post (and that's the extent of my griping).

I'm interested in the Cayman. Interesting name. Will they have secret compartments for stashing your money?


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## machmeter (Aug 6, 2002)

WileECoyote said:


> I'm interested in the Cayman. Interesting name. Will they have secret compartments for stashing your money?


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thumbup:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

04E46 said:


> :rofl:
> 
> no. Most porsche guys are purists.
> 
> Rear engine. Air cooled. Normally aspirated.


Please, most Porsche guys are dentists who drive a 996 cabriolet automatic. That's the most popular model in the US.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> Please, most Porsche guys are dentists who drive a 996 cabriolet automatic. That's the most popular model in the US.


:rofl:

The man does have a point...


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

Just because the engine isn't in the back doesn't mean it isn't a real Porsche, if I recall doesn't Porsche make some kind of "super car" or something like that? Is the engine in the rear of that car, hmm? The mid engine design is supposed to be the best for handling, not rear engine. If they do the Boxster Coupe right it should turn out to be a great car.


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## TRWham (Aug 21, 2004)

04E46 said:


> Dont mistake the boxster for a porsche.
> 
> Porshe has engine in the back. Boxter doesnt.


And all this time I thought the 917 was the ultimate Porsche, but now I know it isn't a Porsche at all. I'm glad you set me straight.


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## Wallenrod (Nov 25, 2003)

Porsche Boxter is the best driving car I've driven in my life. Period. It's really hard to go back to BMW after a test drive. But, it is not a sedan. This makes BMW the ultimate compromise machine...
If I was 25 and single I would go for it, even despite this cheap ass, plsticky interior taken straight out of a Chevy.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Wallenrod said:


> Porsche Boxter is the best driving car I've driven in my life. Period. It's really hard to go back to BMW after a test drive. But, it is not a sedan. This makes BMW the ultimate compromise machine...
> If I was 25 and single I would go for it, even despite this cheap ass, plsticky interior taken straight out of a Chevy.


Wait for the coupe man, that's gonna be the ****! :yumyum:


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

philippek said:


> :rofl:
> 
> The man does have a point...


hahaha. We call the 87 911 the divorced orthodontist car.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

Wallenrod said:


> Porsche Boxter is the best driving car I've driven in my life. Period. It's really hard to go back to BMW after a test drive. But, it is not a sedan. This makes BMW the ultimate compromise machine...
> If I was 25 and single I would go for it, even despite this cheap ass, plsticky interior taken straight out of a Chevy.


You evidently have not driven very many cars


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

Wallenrod said:


> Porsche Boxter is the best driving car I've driven in my life. Period. It's really hard to go back to BMW after a test drive. But, it is not a sedan. This makes BMW the ultimate compromise machine...
> If I was 25 and single I would go for it, even despite this cheap ass, plsticky interior taken straight out of a Chevy.


 Agreed, but at $50K the average 25 year old can't afford it , or at least I couldn't when I was that young.

James.


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## Rob325_in_AZ (Oct 22, 2004)

James said:


> Agreed, but at $50K the average 25 year old can't afford it , or at least I couldn't when I was that young.
> 
> James.


The case with many of these kinds of cars. You want it when you're young, but can't afford it until you're older. But by then you either have other responsibilities or priorities, or your tastes have changed. If you do decide you still want the exotic sports car, then you're accused of having a mid-life crisis!

Oh, and if you somehow can afford it when you're young, then you're just a spoiled rich kid. :rofl:


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2005)

Rob325_in_AZ said:


> The case with many of these kinds of cars. You want it when you're young, but can't afford it until you're older. But by then you either have other responsibilities or priorities, or your tastes have changed. If you do decide you still want the exotic sports car, then you're accused of having a mid-life crisis!
> 
> Oh, and if you somehow can afford it when you're young, then you're just a spoiled rich kid. :rofl:


 Summed up well.

I make many times what I did when I was first out of college. But I have less money left over to piss away on toys now than I did then.

I look forward to my mid-life crisis car.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

TRWham said:


> And all this time I thought the 917 was the ultimate Porsche, but now I know it isn't a Porsche at all. I'm glad you set me straight.


Thats a fricking CAN-AM car.

bozo


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

04E46 said:


> Thats a fricking CAN-AM car.
> 
> bozo


 : popcorn:


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

James said:


> : popcorn:


 I personally think porsches are lame cars. Mundane boring, no character.

I am simply talking from the stereotypical porsche guys point of view that I have met over the years.

GEEEEEZ. IDIOTS!


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## Rob325_in_AZ (Oct 22, 2004)

TD said:


> Summed up well.
> 
> I make many times what I did when I was first out of college. But I have less money left over to piss away on toys now than I did then.
> 
> I look forward to my mid-life crisis car.


I think we can safely say that for you it would not be a mid-life crisis car :thumbup:


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> Please, most Porsche guys are dentists who drive a 996 cabriolet automatic. That's the most popular model in the US.


And the most popular BMW model is a 325i with a slushie. You can't compare enthusiasts to the average driver. The average driver doesn't spend hours on a chat board arguing about the finer points of his car either.

Real Porsches are any car made by Porsche. To discount cars such as the 944 is just plain snobery. That's like saying all U.S. spec BMW's aren't real BMW's because they don't have 4 cylinders. After all, I saw the BMW towers in Munich and there are only four of them.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

cwsqbm said:


> And the most popular BMW model is a 325i with a slushie. You can't compare enthusiasts to the average driver. The average driver doesn't spend hours on a chat board arguing about the finer points of his car either.
> 
> Real Porsches are any car made by Porsche. To discount cars such as the 944 is just plain snobery. That's like saying all U.S. spec BMW's aren't real BMW's because they don't have 4 cylinders. After all, I saw the BMW towers in Munich and there are only four of them.


Come on When you think porsche do you think of a little front engined 4 banger?


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

cwsqbm said:


> Real Porsches are any car made by Porsche. To discount cars such as the 944 is just plain snobery. That's like saying all U.S. spec BMW's aren't real BMW's because they don't have 4 cylinders. After all, I saw the BMW towers in Munich and there are only four of them.


Yeah, I agree. The Boxster is a pure mid-engine driver's car. "Porsche guys" who say a 996 cabriolet automatic is more of a real Porsche are not true enthusiasts.

Porsche and BMW have definitely sold out though.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Come on When you think porsche do you think of a little front engined 4 banger?


Maybe. The 968 Club Sport is much more of a driver's car than a 996. But then I'm not a dentist. :dunno:


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> Porsche and BMW have definitely sold out though.


Yup. I dont know if its my age but the new M3 doesnt feel like an M. It feels like a 330 with a crappy suspension on it and more HP. The e36 was more graceful.

And when porsche ditched the floor mounted pedals and went watercooled - they sold out.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

04E46 said:


> Come on When you think porsche do you think of a little front engined 4 banger?


 Actually I think of some guy in a rental because his Porsche is "in the shop", but that's just me .

James.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2005)

I'm staying clear of the front-engine and 4-cyl arguments and going back to the original topic. And to that I say that the base Boxster (outgoing platform) has better feel as a driver's car than the E46 M3. Sure it's not as fast. But I'd much rather drive the Boxster. Especially if it could be had without the convertible top.

Arguing that the Boxster is not a "true Porsche" may be in vogue among the Porsche "intelligencia", but it doesn't make the car any less fun to drive.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

04E46 said:


> Come on When you think porsche do you think of a little front engined 4 banger?


Actually, I do think four-cylinder when I think Porsche, as in 356. The 911 was a sell-out.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

if I conspicuous consumption capable :eeps: I'd buy one in a heartbeat :dunno:


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

cwsqbm said:


> Actually, I do think four-cylinder when I think Porsche, as in 356. The 911 was a sell-out.


Dude. The 356 was so lame. Mid engine 4 banger. You have to be kidding .

People will make fun of you if you get a boxter. Its a porsche with and unjustified stigma.

Boxters are for people that want to be a dick-head porsche driver but cant afford the 911.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

04E46 said:


> People will make fun of you if you get a boxter. Its a porsche with and unjustified stigma.


 I could care less if Porsche snobs feel my car isn't quite up to snuff. Much like I don't hang out at www.bmwsucks.com (I have no idea if this is a real site, click at own risk  ). I just wouldn't associate with the elitists.



04E46 said:


> Boxters are for people that want to be a dick-head porsche driver but cant afford the 911.


 . See above 

James.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

Im just messing with you. Everyone I have met that has had a porsche though their car was gods gift.

If you are going to spend that kind of $$$ on a toy, get a viper. I had a 2001 GTS and loved embarrasing boxters. There are alot of them in my area.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

04E46 said:


> Everyone I have met that has had a porsche though their car was gods gift.


 When I was in grade school my best friend's older brother bought a Porsche 914 for like $4K. He behaved exactly like you said, like Porsche invented the wheel. It took me years to get over my "I hate Porsche" feelings that were instilled over years of listening to him go on and on about the virtues of Porsche.

I got better .

James.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

04E46 said:


> Im just messing with you. Everyone I have met that has had a porsche though their car was gods gift.
> 
> If you are going to spend that kind of $$$ on a toy, get a viper. I had a 2001 GTS and loved embarrasing boxters. There are alot of them in my area.


Yeah, I guess if I had $50k to burn and wanted a driver's Porsche, I'd get a 993.

Until the Boxster coupe comes out that is.


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## Speed00 (Oct 20, 2004)

TD said:


> I'm staying clear of the front-engine and 4-cyl arguments and going back to the original topic. And to that I say that the base Boxster (outgoing platform) has better feel as a driver's car than the E46 M3. Sure it's not as fast. But I'd much rather drive the Boxster. Especially if it could be had without the convertible top.QUOTE]
> 
> So would you say a base model Boxster drives better than an M Coupe? Cause it's kinda hard to compare a sedan (M3) to a boxster.
> Maybe compare a M Roadster to a Boxster?


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## TRWham (Aug 21, 2004)

04E46 said:


> Thats a fricking CAN-AM car.
> 
> bozo


Huh?

The Porsche 917-10 and 917-30 were Can Am cars. The Porsche 917 Langheck as pictured ran at Le Mans in 1970 and finished 2nd behind a 917k.

What exactly is your point? That Porsche race cars don't count as Porsches?


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

Speed00 said:


> So would you say a base model Boxster drives better than an M Coupe? Cause it's kinda hard to compare a sedan (M3) to a boxster.
> Maybe compare a M Roadster to a Boxster?


 I thought the Boxster's target market was the Z3/4?

James.


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

Speed00 said:


> TD said:
> 
> 
> > I'm staying clear of the front-engine and 4-cyl arguments and going back to the original topic. And to that I say that the base Boxster (outgoing platform) has better feel as a driver's car than the E46 M3. Sure it's not as fast. But I'd much rather drive the Boxster. Especially if it could be had without the convertible top.QUOTE]
> ...


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## 04E46 (Apr 7, 2004)

TRWham said:


> Huh?
> 
> The Porsche 917-10 and 917-30 were Can Am cars. The Porsche 917 Langheck as pictured ran at Le Mans in 1970 and finished 2nd behind a 917k.
> 
> What exactly is your point? That Porsche race cars don't count as Porsches?


The 917 ( in general) was designed after Mark Donohue came on board Can Am program at Porsche. It was designed in response to the 512M.

They ran the 917 at lemans but it was a Can-Am car with a bigger ass. The 917 Kurzheck was also a Can-Am car that placed 2nd behind the Langheck. They dropped out of Lemans in 71.

Alot of the 917 made it to the street porsches. Turbocharging, lightweight alloy, magnesium crankcase, cross drilled brakes and that big a$$ whale-tail. Its a porsche race car. I see your point but its nice to see a car such as the 911 (until 97) stay so pure through all the red tape. Thats what I am talking about. The 917 didnt see much of corporate tainting. (huhhh. I said taint)

:dunno:


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## TRWham (Aug 21, 2004)

04E46 said:


> The 917 ( in general) was designed after Mark Donohue came on board Can Am program at Porsche. It was designed in response to the 512M.
> 
> They ran the 917 at lemans but it was a Can-Am car with a bigger ass. The 917 Kurzheck was also a Can-Am car that placed 2nd behind the Langheck. They dropped out of Lemans in 71.:dunno:


I think you've got it backward. The endurance cars were developed in 1968 at the urging of Ferdinand Piech. They followed in the path of the 906-907-908 race cars to compete in the World Championship of Makes. The WMC formula was for 5 liter engines, while Can Am, at that time, was for Group 7 cars with unlimited displacement (some ran 8 liters). McClaren and Chaparral were still dominant.

The 917 Can Am cars were not really active until the endurance cars had retired. Porsche ran 908s in Can Am first, but a 3 liter car was a bit outgunned (though they could win). The 917-10 debuted in 1971 which, as you say, was the last year they ran the World Championship with a 917. And you are right that Donohue wanted the 917-30 as a faster alternative to the 917-10, but I don't think the 917-30 was on track until 1973. He set the track record (something like a 1:14) in one at Road Atlanta and it held until sometime in the '80s when a GTP car broke it.

911s are great, but I still think the ultimate Porsche is the long tail 917.


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## Andre Yew (Jan 3, 2002)

The 911 is the x86 (ie. Pentium) of the car world: poor design bolstered by incredible amounts of engineering and money turning it into one of the fastest entries in its class. Rear-engined configuration (engine behind the rear axle as opposed to rear mid-engined like the Boxter) is just dynamically wrong, and air-cooled engines should have gone away with horses and buggy whips.

--Andre


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## Andre Yew (Jan 3, 2002)

Nope --- I haven't drunk a single drop of the Porsche Kool-Aid.

--Andre


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