# car choice for the "rich"!



## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

If someone is making $500,000 a year what kind of car would you expect that person to be driving. Curious to see every ones response to this question. Seeing that some in congress see them as rich, which personally I don't agree with.


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## AlexK (Jul 25, 2009)

Depends on the person. Someone might see the car as a source of transportation from point "A" to point "B", he might drive Honda Civic even with such salary/income (I actually know such person). Someone else might look for some other quality in a car, like good steering response and good brakes, etc. And the others (probably the majority) will pour whatever $$$ they make into the most expensive car they can (or sometimes cannot) afford, just to show everyone how rich they are, because they have no other positive quality in their personality to impress people with 
Only a very narrow-minded and an inexperienced person would "expect" that everyone who make a lot of $$$ will always drive the most expensive car they can (or sometimes cannot) afford


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

Elias said:


> If someone is making $500,000 a year what kind of car would you expect that person to be driving. Curious to see every ones response to this question. Seeing that some in congress see them as rich, which personally I don't agree with.


If you are making half a mil a year, and you ain't rich, you are doing something pretty wrong. After working fewer than 10 years, my net worth exceeded my income by more than double. For someone approaching middle age, I would expect their net worth to be 3, 4, or 5 or more times their annual income.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

Kamdog said:


> If you are making half a mil a year, and you ain't rich, you are doing something pretty wrong. After working fewer than 10 years, my net worth exceeded my income by more than double. For someone approaching middle age, I would expect their net worth to be 3, 4, or 5 or more times their annual income.


Maybe he's only made $500K for a single year or 2. Maybe he ain't middle age. Maybe he's clawing his way out of debt due to sustained illness such as treatment for cancer. Maybe he was unemployed for a long spell. Who among us can judge about anothers financial circumstances....

For starters, Uncle Sam is going to help himself to roughly 50% of that $500K. Can't complain about a guy not being "rich" when there is no definition of "rich". Although quite a few of the tools in congress think if you make $250K your rich.

.....and having a net worth of 2.5 mil doesn't make anyone "rich" either. Unless you've lived in a double wide all your life.


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## a4ragtop (Sep 29, 2007)

According to the book _The Millionaire Next Door_, the vehicle most commonly owned by the wealthy in the US is the Ford F150.


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

Most "rich" people I know own more than one vehicle and most do have a pickup in the driveway but from my experience they own a whole different range of trucks.


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## GiaGiaJa (Sep 6, 2010)

Hyundai accent all day!


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## ZymurgyBMW (Sep 27, 2008)

I'm not rich but I am a car enthusiast. I think most of us on this forum are. I have "rich" acquaintances who are totally happy with a Honda to a Buick but they tend to have it for 2 or 3 years tops. They just aren't car nuts they want dependable safe transportation. I know a "rich" guy that is a car nut but he has a collection. Everything from a 911, BMW 650, 70's Rolls Royce, vintage Taxi and new VW beetle covt.

Now if I was rich I would probably be more of the collector like him, and most of my cars would not be new. I rather buy a couple of low miles cars like a 650 covt and 2 or 3 year old M3 than the price of one of those new.


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## MJS (Dec 22, 2001)

Whatever car they want to drive. It's their money. And this is America.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

M3, M5, 750LI, Porsche 911 cerra S


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## SeeYal (Aug 28, 2007)

Kamdog said:


> If you are making half a mil a year, and you ain't rich, you are doing something pretty wrong. After working fewer than 10 years, my net worth exceeded my income by more than double. For someone approaching middle age, I would expect their net worth to be 3, 4, or 5 or more times their annual income.


I would temper this answer a little...

1/ Where do you live?500K in New York does not go as far as 500K in Houston...
2/ Single man or Family...
3/ Hobby - Car fanatic, investment?...

It is more up to the individual... and no, not everyone just concentrate on savings and retirements... I buried my best friend at the age of 32- cancer. He left a 2 years old boy and I promised myself to live and enjoy the fruits of my work. I do not say I am not saving... I am just not obsessed about it. I myself always buy return lease and change roughly every 3 years... (I do not make 500K per year)

To return to the car question, if he wants to burn 2500/month for a 10K - 3 years lease on a B7, we are "only" talking 30K per year - exactly 6% of income... really nothing his income to get into a beautiful car...

just my 0.02$


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

SeeYal said:


> I would temper this answer a little...
> 
> 1/ Where do you live?500K in New York does not go as far as 500K in Houston...
> 2/ Single man or Family...
> ...


You hit the nail on the head. Where you live and your personal obligations make all of the difference in the world. Case in point. I have a family member who would fit this criterion of rich (income of 500k a year) and he owns a stable of vehicles (none of them cost over 70k new and all but one cost under 50k). However, his choice of daily drivers are a Ford conversion van and a Saab 9-3. Clearly the man can afford any car he wants, but he drives those. However, he has three kids in private school with eyes on ivy league colleges, an expensive home on Long Island and a wife with expensive tastes. On the other hand, I have a friend who is single and had a bunch of money left to him (around 3-5 million), but he makes about 100k a year and lives in New York City. He chooses to ride around in style in a new Bentley GT (paid cash for it), but his living expenses exceed his income every year. He is single, has no children and has no one to care for but himself. My family member has a much higher net worth than the friend, but my friend has zero obligations and zero debt (he rents his condo) and "appears" rich while my family member appears strictly middle class. This is why blanket rules do not work......


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## SWMc (Jul 26, 2010)

I make much less than $500K.

But I am retired, healthy, can meet all my financial obligations, have a little money in the bank and have three great kids and two wonderful grandkids..... And quiet neighbors.

So to answer the original question. If I made $500k a year I would probably just add a 128i convertible to my garage.

Why not more? Because I subcribe to the hedonic adaptation theory.

If *I* had more money.... I would travel more. :thumbup:


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## mujjuman (Feb 2, 2009)

I know someone who makes $250k a year and they drive an E350 lol.... 
Rich ppl don't necessarily drive fancy(ier) cars.

I know more "poor" people who drive way nicer cars than the doctors I know....


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

I'd still be driving a VW Golf TDI. It's a good car, different from what everyone else drives, and isn't too much flash. Conspicuous consumption is not my thing; I'd rather be saving for retirement.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

AlexK said:


> Depends on the person.


+1

I know two people that make over $500K/year. One drives a 6-year old Lexus and loves it. The other gets a new car every year. When I visited last year he was driving a 650i convertible.

Me, I took a huge pay cut to move to North Wales. Downsized to a MINI and live in a rented house. Attached photos are snapshots from our bedroom window taken today. The MINI is a nice car and this is the best place I've ever lived. Its all about priorities and whats important to you.


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## MarcA78 (Oct 28, 2008)

This is a stupid question. It's like asking, "what kind of sandwich would a 'rich' person eat?"


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## SWMc (Jul 26, 2010)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Its all about priorities and whats important to you.


I couln't agree more!


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

MarcA78 said:


> This is a stupid question. It's like asking, "what kind of sandwich would a 'rich' person eat?"


Not the same thing as anybody with $5.00 in their pocket can afford a sandwich not everybody makes $500,000 and can afford a $100,000 or more car. Seeing that someone who makes $500,000 or more can afford a wide range of cars compared to someone who makes $50,000. We have seen some real great posts very enlightening and some .....


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## sambb (Jul 25, 2006)

Most common cars in the "partners" lot (all >300,000 income) are Honda Accord and Lexus RX, followed by 3 series. In >80 cars, only 1 porsche, and 2 5 series, no seven series. 2 E class MB, 1 S class. 2 Audi, 1 infiniti. THat covers the luxury cars except for larger american SUVs.

They didn;t get rich by spending their money.

Everyone should read the millionaire next door - it is eye opening.


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## Norm37 (Jun 28, 2008)

SSC Ultimate Aero

The fastest street legal production car in the world. And it's built in the good old USA

Jay Leno takes it for a ride.

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/2008-ssc-ultimate-aero/275184/


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## MarcA78 (Oct 28, 2008)

Elias said:


> Not the same thing as anybody with $5.00 in their pocket can afford a sandwich not everybody makes $500,000 and can afford a $100,000 or more car. Seeing that someone who makes $500,000 or more can afford a wide range of cars compared to someone who makes $50,000. We have seen some real great posts very enlightening and some .....


Wrong, only a man with $7.95 can afford a turkey on whole wheat with avocado at Subway. $10 even with chips and a small drink.

It's all relative.


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## SPEEDCHIP (Feb 27, 2010)

I would have a 2010 M3, a Jeep and a vintage.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

MarcA78 said:


> It's like asking, "what kind of sandwich would a 'rich' person eat?"


For those with an unhealthy need for bragging rights the Cliveden House hotel has a £100 Club Sandwich on the menu.

http://www.clivedenhouse.co.uk/press_releases.asp?NID=6&Action=ShowPressReleases

For £22 they will prepare a chicken and rice meal for your dog.

http://www.clivedenhouse.co.uk/fine_dining.asp?Page=dog_hotel_menu

Luxury hotels that will welcome a Great Dane are rare. We might just stay there some day. Won't be ordering that sandwich though.


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## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

Lot's of wealthy business men and women buy American. Ford, GMC, Chevy... Pump money back into the American economy, not in the hands of Nazi Facist Germany.


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## Bremen Ben (Sep 1, 2008)

This reminds me of the Clark Howard show on HLN that I happened to catch yesterday. He was advising a bunch of NFL pro guys on car leasing vs. buying. He told them the smartest use of money is to not lease, but buy the car off lease by letting the first owner take the biggest hit on depreciation.

It's hilarious to see the "oh sh!t" face of some of the NFL guys there. :rofl:

I guess what he said is no great discovery, but if it comes from a self made millionaire, I guess it would be no surprise if many other "rich" people are also following the same principle.


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## SWMc (Jul 26, 2010)

cali311soca said:


> Lot's of wealthy business men and women buy American. Ford, GMC, Chevy... Pump money back into the American economy, not in the hands of Nazi Facist Germany.


The only problem with buying American is that many of them are no longer made in America. These days buying American oftentimes pumps money into the Mexican economy.


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## SWMc (Jul 26, 2010)

Bremen Ben said:


> This reminds me of the Clark Howard show on HLN that I happened to catch yesterday. He was advising a bunch of NFL pro guys on car leasing vs. buying. He told them the smartest use of money is to not lease, but buy the car off lease by letting the first owner take the biggest hit on depreciation.
> 
> It's hilarious to see the "oh sh!t" face of some of the NFL guys there. :rofl:
> 
> I guess what he said is no great discovery, but if it comes from a self made millionaire, I guess it would be no surprise if many other "rich" people are also following the same principle.


Nothing wrong with buying lease returns as long as the buyer is aware that they've had the living daylights driven out of them.

The three fastest cars in the world are:

1. stolen
2. rented
3. leased


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

TRS550 said:


> For starters, Uncle Sam is going to help himself to roughly 50% of that $500K. Can't complain about a guy not being "rich" when there is no definition of "rich". Although quite a few of the tools in congress think if you make $250K your rich.


Well, you could call half a mil a year 'not rich', but it is 10 times the average household income. Ten times.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

Kamdog said:


> Well, you could call half a mil a year 'not rich', but it is 10 times the average household income. Ten times.


Yep. I hear ya. But again....Uncle Sam and the State and employment taxes and such will immediately reduce that $500K to $250k. (Not telling you anything you don't already know, I'm sure). Now take the $250K and set aside money for retirement, make the house payment, college tuition payments and the like and suddenly our once "rich" person can no longer afford to drive "any car he desires" as someone stated. Yes....it buys a very nice lifestyle. But it ain't rich.

Too me "rich" means I have enough money that I could choose not to work. That I buy what I want when I want with no concerns as to cost. That means I have to have enough money to do all that and never touch the principal. Basically live off and spend the investment returns each year. That puts me in the $10-$15M area. Not in terms of net worth. But in terms of liquidity. Net worth would be somewhere in the $25-$40M ara. That's rich.

But......one man's rich is another man's chump change.


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## louie1 (Nov 27, 2008)

SWMc said:


> I make much less than $500K.
> 
> *But I am retired, healthy, can meet all my financial obligations, have a little money in the bank and have three great kids and two wonderful grandkids..... And quiet neighbors.*
> So to answer the original question. If I made $500k a year I would probably just add a 128i convertible to my garage.
> ...


That makes you 'rich.' (and I would go for the 135 'vert.)


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## MarcA78 (Oct 28, 2008)

If money was not an issue, I'd drive a solid gold GMC Gremlin.


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## SWMc (Jul 26, 2010)

MarcA78 said:


> If money was not an issue, I'd drive a solid gold GMC Gremlin.


Don't you mean an AMC Gremlin?


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## timfitz63 (Aug 10, 2010)

MarcA78 said:


> If money was not an issue, I'd drive a solid gold GMC Gremlin.


I think you meant AMC... But that's still an hilarious mental image... :rofl:


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## MarcA78 (Oct 28, 2008)

timfitz63 said:


> I think you meant AMC... But that's still an hilarious mental image... :rofl:


Pretty sure I meant AMC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Gremlin

And it would be AWESOME.


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## Bremen Ben (Sep 1, 2008)

SWMc said:


> Nothing wrong with buying lease returns as long as the buyer is aware that they've had the living daylights driven out of them.
> 
> The three fastest cars in the world are:
> 
> ...


No disagreement. I see that everyday in my wife's leased vehicle. Not saying she abuses the car, she just doesn't give the car the same level of care like I do mine.

But it wouldn't bother me much to buy a lease return if doing so allows me to get a good 3, 4 years of affordable fun out of the car; I don't mind the car being driven hard as long as it is maintained properly and free of any prior accident or damage.


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## ollo_ollo (Dec 2, 2010)

We live a few blocks from the local hospital & use the empty part of its parking lot to run our dogs through their obedience drills every morning. I checked out the staff lot for real life data, & only found a boatload of various SUVs, Toyotas, Buicks & Lincolns plus the following: Mercedes SLR500, Mercedes AMG E55 Wagon, Lexus LS250 and a nice, older Jaguar Vanden Plas(parked in handicap spot so might have been a patient). Don


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## efex101 (Dec 11, 2010)

Most docs do NOT drive really expensive vehicles. SAAB/SUV's/Toyota/insert other boring vehicle .....also, 500K is relative if they end up with over 200-300K of loans btw


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

Doctors ain't rich either.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/people_with_jobs_as_physicians_/_doctors/salary


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## ollo_ollo (Dec 2, 2010)

I know they aren't rich as I am acquainted with a few. I think that's why the OP said (car choice for the "rich"). I had just referenced this site: http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm , which shows higher numbers, &"median" does mean half of the Drs earn above the $$ shown. Just thought a hospital staff lot would have had some high $$ cars, I was surprised how few there were though.


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## chrisk03 (Jun 30, 2010)

TRS550 said:


> ...I'd venture to say 90% of most Americans have no clued how much they're taxed. If they did, *every* single politician would have been sent packing in November...


Precisely why it was decided long ago to deduct directly from our paychecks...easier to take/hide. If people actually got a bill at the end of each year/qtr to pay to the tax man...look out DC!!


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## TerraPhantm (Nov 22, 2004)

If my father didn't have to spend a significant portion of his income on paying my mom's medical bills (this year it was close to $100k after deducting the insurance compensation), he'd be capable of living a lifestyle that'd be considered "rich" by all standard (and he earns about $250k on salary, so it's closer to 150k clear). I disagree with classifying someone as "rich" based solely on income due to the situations like that. He does drive an E60 535xi, but it is his only car


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

TRS550 said:


> A single person making $500K can expect a federal income tax bill of 30%, a state tax bill of roughly 6% (depending on where they live of course), SS taxes of 12.4% on the first $105K which is an effective rate of 2.4%, a 1.5% medicare tax, 1.5 to 2.5% local income tax. So we're at 42% and we haven't even touched on a 15% capital gains tax, a 6-7% sales tax on everything you buy except food. Then we tack on property taxes and then the wonderful little bug called an AMT and yeah....50% has long been passed and we're headed towards 60%.
> 
> *I'd venture to say 90% of most Americans have no clued how much they're taxed.* If they did, *every* single politician would have been sent packing in November.
> 
> *fastgass*... Be careful .......... Unless your options were qualified (ISO) they'll be taxed as normal income, not at the capital gains rate. You could get slammed at tax time.


I note that you are including state and local taxes that have in the past been deductible. Has something been changed that I wasn't aware of?

IMO your estimate of 90% not knowing how much they are taxed is WAY over the true figure and is extremely insulting to the American people.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

ProRail said:


> I note that you are including state and local taxes that have in the past been deductible. Has something been changed that I wasn't aware of?
> 
> IMO your estimate of 90% not knowing how much they are taxed is WAY over the true figure and is extremely insulting to the American people.


Uuh yeah....Of course I include state and local taxes because they are taxes paid. The fact that they are deductible from federal taxes means dick. They are still TAXES THAT ARE PAID and as such are part of your total tax bill.

Congratulations....you're part of the 90%.


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## swajames (Jan 16, 2005)

ProRail said:


> I note that you are including state and local taxes that have in the past been deductible. Has something been changed that I wasn't aware of?
> 
> IMO your estimate of 90% not knowing how much they are taxed is WAY over the true figure and is extremely insulting to the American people.


If you're subject to AMT you've effectively kissed goodbye to the state and local tax deduction...

And that 90% estimate was, in all likelihood, too generous.


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## JimD1 (Jun 5, 2009)

I don't make close to $500K/yr either but there is enough in my checkbook to buy a pretty nice BMW right now. I paid cash for my 128i convertible last year. I will drive my 2006 SUV this morning, however, because it's snowing and the 128i has performance tires. I like cars but I also like helping my kids with a downpayment for a house, and paying for my daughters wedding, and being able to retire in a few years.

Having more money provides more options. We had a GM at work who drove a rusty old K car until his wife bought him a new minivan (basic model). He was driving that when he passed away. Mead just didn't get into nice cars. He had so many tools he had to park his cars outside, however. And his wife and kids were well taken care of.

Jim


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## Saintor (Dec 14, 2002)

A close friend owns a very profitable business that moves 30 millions $ yearly. I'd be surprised if he doesn't pocket 1 M$ yearly.

He leases a middle line Pathfinder.


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

TRS550 said:


> Uuh yeah....Of course I include state and local taxes because they are taxes paid. The fact that they are deductible from federal taxes means dick. They are still TAXES THAT ARE PAID and as such are part of your total tax bill.
> 
> Congratulations....you're part of the 90%.


Yes, but in your example you are adding them to the Federal tax.


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## swajames (Jan 16, 2005)

ProRail said:


> Yes, but in your example you are adding them to the Federal tax.


Because it is the right thing to do when calculating the total tax burden for many taxpayers. Any taxpayers subject to AMT effectively can't deduct the state and local taxes when determining their federal tax liability, and even those than can are then only getting a reduction from AGI which benefits them only at their marginal tax rate. There is no dollar for dollar tax federal credit for most state and local taxes.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

ProRail said:


> Yes, but in your example you are adding them to the Federal tax.


You asked the question as to how anyone could have half their income taxed. I responded by listing just a few of the taxes that add up to achieve that 50%. State and local taxes are part of that. There are many more I didn't list that make a persons tax bill even higher.

Not much else I can say to help you bud. :dunno:


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## needa745li03-05 (Dec 27, 2010)

MJS said:


> Whatever car they want to drive. It's their money. And this is America.


lol there ya go lol

but to add on i dont know what kind of car ... BUT i would imagin what ever it is ... its LEASED !! and they get a new one ever few years lol


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## needa745li03-05 (Dec 27, 2010)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> You hit the nail on the head. Where you live and your personal obligations make all of the difference in the world. Case in point. I have a family member who would fit this criterion of rich (income of 500k a year) and he owns a stable of vehicles (none of them cost over 70k new and all but one cost under 50k). However, his choice of daily drivers are a Ford conversion van and a Saab 9-3. Clearly the man can afford any car he wants, but he drives those. However, he has three kids in private school with eyes on ivy league colleges, an expensive home on Long Island and a wife with expensive tastes. On the other hand, I have a friend who is single and had a bunch of money left to him (around 3-5 million), but he makes about 100k a year and lives in New York City. He chooses to ride around in style in a new Bentley GT (paid cash for it), but his living expenses exceed his income every year. He is single, has no children and has no one to care for but himself. My family member has a much higher net worth than the friend, but my friend has zero obligations and zero debt (he rents his condo) and "appears" rich while my family member appears strictly middle class. This is why blanket rules do not work......


damn ya friend is lucky but hopefully he smartens up before he messes around n spends too much .... but damn to have a bentley GT PAID FOR whoa good stuff  .... im the same phase right now except no one passed anything on to me .... ive been working my ass off lol ... but i can cause outside of myself i dont really have any obligations


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## needa745li03-05 (Dec 27, 2010)

SWMc said:


> I make much less than $500K.
> 
> But I am retired, healthy, can meet all my financial obligations, have a little money in the bank and have three great kids and two wonderful grandkids..... *And quiet neighbors*.
> 
> ...


thats always a plus right lol


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## needa745li03-05 (Dec 27, 2010)

TRS550 said:


> Yep. I hear ya. But again....Uncle Sam and the State and employment taxes and such will immediately reduce that $500K to $250k. (Not telling you anything you don't already know, I'm sure). Now take the $250K and set aside money for retirement, make the house payment, college tuition payments and the like and suddenly our once "rich" person can no longer afford to drive "any car he desires" as someone stated. Yes....it buys a very nice lifestyle. But it ain't rich.
> 
> Too me "rich" means I have enough money that I could choose not to work. That I buy what I want when I want with no concerns as to cost. That means I have to have enough money to do all that and never touch the principal. Basically live off and spend the investment returns each year. That puts me in the $10-$15M area. Not in terms of net worth. But in terms of liquidity. Net worth would be somewhere in the $25-$40M ara. That's rich.
> 
> But......one man's rich is another man's chump change.


im prob gonna start a nit pick match lol but i would consider that wealthy cause your basically saying u cant go broke .... thats wealthy .... rich folks can go broke lol


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## needa745li03-05 (Dec 27, 2010)

captainaudio said:


> In New York City we also pay a city income tax.
> 
> Let's say that you make $500,000 are paying 50% in taxes and live in Manhattan. You will have $250,000 after taxes. A three bedroom apartment can easily rent for $7,500/mo and a parking space can easily cost $550/mo. That adds up to $102,000 just for rent and parking leaving $150,000. A lease payment and insurance on a luxury car can be $2,000 a month or $24,000 a year leaving $126,000. *Add in the cost of 2 children* in college and you can see that at $500,000/year you are still going to have to budget wisely.
> 
> CA


lol buy rubbers and stack that money for a few years before making that move LOL ... outside of paying all that money and not owing the roof over your head ... thats not a bad deal from where i come from ... folk would kill to have that setup


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