# Pontiac G8 - poor man's E39 M5, IMO



## emPoWaH (Dec 26, 2002)

It's a RWD, midsized, V8, 6-speed, understated family sedan free of iDrive, SMG, or active steering. If they can keep it around $30-35K, this should be a hit among enthusiasts.


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## chenja 330CI (Jun 16, 2006)

that looks decent... too bad i still wouldn't buy it since it's a pontiac. just my .02cents.


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## e46Christian (Feb 27, 2003)

The proof is in the pudding. I sort of dig the way it looks. Now let's see how it drives!


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

chenja 330CI said:


> that looks decent... too bad i still wouldn't buy it since it's a pontiac. just my .02cents.


ditto.


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## KrisL (Dec 22, 2001)

chenja 330CI said:


> that looks decent... too bad i still wouldn't buy it since it's a pontiac. just my .02cents.


But thats the thing, it's not really a pontiac. It's a Holden, made in Australia.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

I like it. I don't care if its a pontiac, the GTO from 1968 was a Pontiac too, and it kicked everyone's ass.


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## monaroCountry (Jun 14, 2006)

> The proof is in the pudding. I sort of dig the way it looks. Now let's see how it drives!


Should be on par with BMW's in the handling department.


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

I actually like it.  Hope the production car will have a different taillight style...


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## Watchdog (Jan 23, 2005)

KrisL said:


> But thats the thing, it's not really a pontiac. It's a Holden, made in Australia.


I don't know much about Holden, but I've heard they made some really good performance cars. Hmmm it could be interesting, but it still has a Pontiac badge. I might be able to get past that, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't convince my wife to buy a Pontiac :rofl:


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## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

i'd buy it....:thumbup:. It is very Mazda-ish...


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## emPoWaH (Dec 26, 2002)

Jeremy Clarkson thought highly of this car's predecessor...


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## A320 Scott (Jan 19, 2007)

I seriously considered a Pontiac "Holden Marano" GTO several years ago. Unfortunately side airbags and curtain devices weren't available. I asked the salesman if they were considered for the next model-year, and his response sent me out the door! To paraphrase, he claimed "guys who want this much power don't care about such things." 
Oh really? I mentioned BMW and their disciples would beg to differ, but he didn't care.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

A320 Scott said:


> I seriously considered a Pontiac "Holden Marano" GTO several years ago. Unfortunately side airbags and curtain devices weren't available. I asked the salesman if they were considered for the next model-year, and his response sent me out the door! To paraphrase, he claimed "guys who want this much power don't care about such things."
> Oh really? I mentioned BMW and their disciples would beg to differ, but he didn't care.


I drove a GTO, that was the most unstable car I've driven in my life. Albeit it was raining, I barely gave it any gas and I almost spun it, and the traction control was on.:eeps:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Not bad, but I think it's more Impala SS than BMW M5. I'm sure it'll be way overpriced just like the GTO.

They should sell the supercharged GTO that they sell overseas.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> Not bad, but I think it's more Impala SS than BMW M5. I'm sure it'll be way overpriced just like the GTO.
> 
> They should sell the supercharged GTO that they sell overseas.


You can get a GTO LS2 for $22k~ used.


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

Cool car. Wont sell well in the U.S.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

BmW745On19's said:


> You can get a GTO LS2 for $22k~ used.


I meant this one, the 500 hp supercharged Monaro.


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## jfulcher (Jan 12, 2007)

BmW745On19's said:


> I drove a GTO, that was the most unstable car I've driven in my life. Albeit it was raining, I barely gave it any gas and I almost spun it, and the traction control was on.:eeps:


Learn to drive!!! You shouldn't have to depend on traction control or stability control to be able to drive without spinning out.. :dunno: :thumbdwn: The car has 400 ft/lb of torque - you can't expect it to drive like a cavalier. People are too dependant on traction/stability systems these days. I have no problems with my GTO in the rain and I drive with traction control off all of the time.

I currently own a GTO and it by no means handles as well as a BMW - and I don't expect the new G8 to do so either. It takes ~2k in pedders suspension parts to make the GTO even handle on the same level as the 335i I test drove and am now buying..


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## jfulcher (Jan 12, 2007)

Dawg90 said:


> Not bad, but I think it's more Impala SS than BMW M5. I'm sure it'll be way overpriced just like the GTO.
> 
> They should sell the supercharged GTO that they sell overseas.


How is 30k overpriced for a 400/400 car? Come on now.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

jfulcher said:


> Learn to drive!!! You shouldn't have to depend on traction control or stability control to be able to drive without spinning out.. :dunno: :thumbdwn: The car has 400 ft/lb of torque - you can't expect it to drive like a cavalier. People are too dependant on traction/stability systems these days.
> 
> I currently own a GTO and it by no means handles as well as a BMW - and I don't expect the new G8 to do so either. It takes ~2k in pedders suspension parts to make the GTO even handle on the same level as the 335i I test drove and am now buying..


No, it's not a fact that I don't know how to drive, it just really sucks at handling, and yeah, if I hadn't of known how to drive, I would have probably wrecked the damn thing. It could have been the tires too...:dunno:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

jfulcher said:


> Learn to drive!!! You shouldn't have to depend on traction control or stability control to be able to drive without spinning out.. :dunno: :thumbdwn: The car has 400 ft/lb of torque - you can't expect it to drive like a cavalier. People are too dependant on traction/stability systems these days. I have no problems with my GTO in the rain and I drive with traction control off all of the time.


He has an RS America, I'm guessing he knows how to drive.  Car probably had bald tires or something.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

jfulcher said:


> How is 30k overpriced for a 400/400 car? Come on now.


It's $34k, and it's gonna depreciate like hell, therefore it's overpriced.


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## jfulcher (Jan 12, 2007)

Dawg90 said:


> It's $34k, and it's gonna depreciate like hell, therefore it's overpriced.


Every american car depriciates that quickly. With the GTO it was never difficult to get it around 31k. I paid 26,500 +ttl for mine with a rebate (And got 4.9% to boot). It is hardly overpriced for what you are getting. To get anything close to the performance of the GTO you'd have to go used.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> He has an RS America, I'm guessing he knows how to drive.  Car probably had bald tires or something.


Heh, rash generalizations.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> It's $34k, and it's gonna depreciate like hell, therefore it's overpriced.


Yeah 34k...one can practically get a 335i sedan ED. I'll take that any day over this monster.


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

blueguydotcom said:


> Yeah 34k...one can practically get a 335i sedan ED. I'll take that any day over this monster.


I'd rather get a used M3 that can take that GTO to the house any day on a track.


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## monaroCountry (Jun 14, 2006)

> I currently own a GTO and it by no means handles as well as a BMW - and I don't expect the new G8 to do so either. It takes ~2k in pedders suspension parts to make the GTO even handle on the same level as the 335i I test drove and am now buying..


The VE commodores handle a whole lot better than the GTO and its older VT-VZ brothers.

Handling would be on par (if not better) than some top of the line BMW's, especially with the MRC HSV variants.

One of the best drifters here in Australia Robbie Bolger has upgraded to the VE commodore (from his CAPA drift monaro and drift ute, yup the use has i think over 1000hp). Robbie has pointed out in another board that the stock VE SS suspension to be very tough and competent suspension setup. His upcoming VE drift car has minimal suspension mods (compared with his other drift cars and other jap cars) most notable changes has been a different shocks.

Dont forget that Holden basically took the old 5 series apart and copied many of its design elements. Pushed the sheels father out and gate it 50:50 weight distribution. The ESP system in this car should also be better than BMW, less intrusive.


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## monaroCountry (Jun 14, 2006)

Test here in Australia by a respected tuner has concluded that a stock VE SS was able to beat the previous HSV R8 (with a tune) around a track. 

The SS basicall lost out by a big margin power-wise but even HSV's upgraded suspension, tire and brakes basically lost out in the handling department.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

jfulcher said:


> Every american car depriciates that quickly. With the GTO it was never difficult to get it around 31k. I paid 26,500 +ttl for mine with a rebate (And got 4.9% to boot). It is hardly overpriced for what you are getting. To get anything close to the performance of the GTO you'd have to go used.


I was referring to the MSRP, not the actual selling price. I think a lot of people get scared off by the $34k sticker - it really should be priced like a Camaro, since it has that image in Australia.

A $34k sticker prices it out of the range of many potential buyers.


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## emPoWaH (Dec 26, 2002)

Dawg90 said:


> I was referring to the MSRP, not the actual selling price. I think a lot of people get scared off by the $34k sticker - it really should be priced like a Camaro, since it has that image in Australia.
> 
> A $34k sticker prices it out of the range of many potential buyers.


This should do better than the GTO, in part because it isn't hyped up to be "a GTO." The G8 is also more practical (4-doors, 5 seats, more than twice the trunk space) and more advanced (VE Commodore came out late 2006; Omega -- on which the Monaro is based -- came out late 1993). It is also a direct replacement for the decent-selling Grand Prix... there'll be a 260-hp V6 version for ~$26K.


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## jfulcher (Jan 12, 2007)

BmW745On19's said:


> I'd rather get a used M3 that can take that GTO to the house any day on a track.


3k for the pedders track suspension kit on the GTO and that M3 would be schooled. I've seen it in happen in real life at a local auto-x event. Granted it was versus a stock e46 M3, but the suspension at that point was better than the M3 and it had a lot more power.

It is sad however that you have to spend 3k on a performance car like that to keep up in the twisties with a lot of other performance cars when you have more power than most of the other cars.


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## jfulcher (Jan 12, 2007)

Dawg90 said:


> I was referring to the MSRP, not the actual selling price. I think a lot of people get scared off by the $34k sticker - it really should be priced like a Camaro, since it has that image in Australia.
> 
> A $34k sticker prices it out of the range of many potential buyers.


Anyone that pays MSRP for a car deserves to be scared. It's actually $33290 BTW for a 6 speed version of the GTO.

The GTO is nothing like the camaro. The camaro is a lead sled in the corners, the GTO at least has IRS so you have a good platform to work with. The build quality is also 10x better than what the Camaro was. (I know as I owned two LS1 F-bodies before my GTO - one for a drag car one for a daily driver). The LS2 GTO also has 70 more rated HP than the last camaro. The average sticker on a camaro was ~26-27k. So it's not that far off.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

emPoWaH said:


> This should do better than the GTO, in part because it isn't hyped up to be "a GTO." The G8 is also more practical (4-doors, 5 seats, more than twice the trunk space) and more advanced (VE Commodore came out late 2006; Omega -- on which the Monaro is based -- came out late 1993). It is also a direct replacement for the decent-selling Grand Prix... there'll be a 260-hp V6 version for ~$26K.


I didn't know the GTO was Omega-based. I got an Omega in Germany as a rental, it was so bad I traded it in the next day.

Yes, I do think the G8 will do much better, as long as it's not like $45k.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

jfulcher said:


> Anyone that pays MSRP for a car deserves to be scared. It's actually $33290 BTW for a 6 speed version of the GTO.
> 
> The GTO is nothing like the camaro. The camaro is a lead sled in the corners, the GTO at least has IRS so you have a good platform to work with. The build quality is also 10x better than what the Camaro was. (I know as I owned two LS1 F-bodies before my GTO - one for a drag car one for a daily driver). The LS2 GTO also has 70 more rated HP than the last camaro. The average sticker on a camaro was ~26-27k. So it's not that far off.


Probably 90% of potential buyers don't know what you just wrote. They probably rule out the GTO long before they hear how it performs, or how low they can buy it for.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Not bad.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

There are still dozens of brand new GTO's sitting on the Pontiac dealers lots in So Calif. I wonder if this is and indication of a company not being able to learn from it's past mistakes ?
They touted the G6 as the "Camry Beater" and from day one it was offered with deep discounts. I took one look at the dash/interior at the auto show and had to laugh...as soon as Pontiac touches the interior design, it will waive off a bunch of people.


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## monaroCountry (Jun 14, 2006)

> I didn't know the GTO was Omega-based. I got an Omega in Germany as a rental, it was so bad I traded it in the next day.
> 
> Yes, I do think the G8 will do much better, as long as it's not like $45k.


GTO was never omega based. Holden was forced (by GM) to use a European platform in the 70's. They found out that the platform couldn't handle Australia's rugged conditions and during tests some broke in half. Holden had to strengthen and modify the platform, the $$$ Holden spent for this nearly sent them broke.

The VT platform (used in the GTO) was a completely Holden design and produced. The body shape shared some similarities with the Catera. Holden at this stage couldn't afford aero testing and producing its own unique body shape. In this regard they (Holden) did copy some Catera design queues.

The current VE platform (zeta) used for the Pontiac G8 is 100% Holden developed and made. GM again asked Holden to use an existing platform (sigma). There were some drawback including price, flexibility, and high firewall. Holden as a result developed its own platform that copied as much of BMW's packaging and creating their own unique suspension setup.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

I saw somewhere the V8 will be $33k.


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## 645ilubu (Oct 22, 2004)

jfulcher said:


> Every american car depriciates that quickly. With the GTO it was never difficult to get it around 31k. I paid 26,500 +ttl for mine with a rebate (And got 4.9% to boot). It is hardly overpriced for what you are getting. To get anything close to the performance of the GTO you'd have to go used.


OT

How'd you do that? I called the dealer's here offering 25k + ttl for a non-used 2006 (all the dealers have at least 10 on the lot). They wanted 32k...and this was there internet dept. IM to keep post on topic.:thumbup:


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

645ilubu said:


> OT
> 
> How'd you do that? I called the dealer's here offering 25k + ttl for a non-used 2006 (all the dealers have at least 10 on the lot). They wanted 32k...and this was there internet dept. IM to keep post on topic.:thumbup:


Just yesterday I saw one GTO dealer ad in the local newspaper in Ft Lauderdale with a sale price of $26,995 (from some $33,000 and change MSRP)...


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