# M3 std or ZCP



## boxerman (Dec 13, 2004)

Will be ordering an 05 m3 with stick early next week. Car will have dual use as commuter involving country roads and highway and used a few weekends as a trackday fun toy. For track I would imagine the zcp is the best but any ideas how it goes or rides on the regular street. Does a regular m3 hold up to trackday use, say 4-5 times per year.
If a regular m3 I would go with 18in wheels and maybee an aftermarket set of 19s for track fun. 
Saw the topgear video comparing the m3 to the csl, seemed to be quite a difference in cornering attitude between the two, where does zcp fit in?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

boxerman said:


> Does a regular m3 hold up to trackday use, say 4-5 times per year.


:dunno:

Why wouldn't it? I know tons of people who regularly track their "regular" M3s. I track my non-M 3-series about that much a year if not more. Many people track their car, BMW or not, M3 or not many times a year. There's tons of people driving E30s on the track about that much if not more as well. If properly maintained, many cars would hold up just fine.



> If a regular m3 I would go with 18in wheels and maybee an aftermarket set of 19s for track fun.


You're kidding, right?  



> Saw the topgear video comparing the m3 to the csl, seemed to be quite a difference in cornering attitude between the two, where does zcp fit in?


I think this is about as close to a CSL that the US market will probably get. Don't know if it would handle better or not on the track. Could be... wait a while and see what reviews say. :dunno:


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

boxerman said:


> Does a regular m3 hold up to trackday use, say 4-5 times per year.


I've seen a Honda Prelude on the track.


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Considering no one has an M3 with the comp. pkg. I don't know how we can really answer this question. 

I wouldn't expect it to offer a significant change, if any, in ride of the "regular" M3. The improved steering rack is really the only improvement and I have a hard time believing that alone is worth the cost. The wheel/brake upgrade is merely for looks and any suspension upgrade is more than likely just shock revalving to compensate for the added weight of the 19" cast wheels. 

And you'll want to buy 17" wheels for track fun...not 19".


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

ZCP's use special oil which makes them much better suited to autox. Also, be sure to inflate your tires with ZCP air, this will make them much grippier.

I've used both in my ZHP and have noted some significant gains.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Also, cross-drilled rotors aren't the best choice for tracking....


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Mdk330i said:


> I've seen a Honda Prelude on the track.


Yup... also seen a good share of Civics, Integras, Subarus, 350Zs, etc etc etc etc...


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

philippek said:


> ZCP's use special oil which makes them much better suited to autox. Also, be sure to inflate your tires with ZCP air, this will make them much grippier.
> 
> I've used both in my ZHP and have noted some significant gains.


But ZCP air may be sold at a premium making the maintenance cost way too expensive.


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## boxerman (Dec 13, 2004)

got the point, thanks. Will go for "regular" m3. While we're at it any tire suggestions?


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

boxerman said:


> got the point, thanks. Will go for "regular" m3. While we're at it any tire suggestions?


Pray that you don't get the Conti's.

Alex


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## boxerman (Dec 13, 2004)

Besides conti's do they come with anything else?


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

boxerman said:


> Besides conti's do they come with anything else?


'04s came with either Contis or Michelin Pilot Sports.

Alex


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> Pray that you don't get the Conti's.
> 
> Alex


I don't think he has much of a choice, unfortunately. Get rid of them ASAP and get some real tires like Bridgestone S-O3's or Michelin PS2's.


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## rennfahrer (Feb 13, 2004)

scuse moi'
but what is ZCP air?
is this a new element that i'm not aware of???


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## Jever (Apr 16, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Pray that you don't get the Conti's.
> 
> Alex


What's wrong w/ the Conti's and is there any way to put a "preference request" on tires to maybe increase the odds of getting what you want? Seems retarded that you can special order paint, interior colors/options but you couldn't order what tires you want.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

Mdk330i said:


> I've seen a Honda Prelude on the track.


  Preludes are more track worthy than you think. They won the World Challenge championship (what is now Speed Touring Car) in 1994, 95, and 96.


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

elbert said:


> Preludes are more track worthy than you think. They won the World Challenge championship (what is now Speed Touring Car) in 1994, 95, and 96.


This one was bone stock.


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

Jever said:


> What's wrong w/ the Conti's and is there any way to put a "preference request" on tires to maybe increase the odds of getting what you want? Seems retarded that you can special order paint, interior colors/options but you couldn't order what tires you want.


I had the Conti's on my 330i. I thought they were great after coming from an Acura CL. But I had to get new tires because one of my rear Conti's was damaged and I couldn't get a replacement in time before a track event. A friend of mine was able to get me a deal I couldn't refuse on the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. After these, I realized the Conti's were terrible. Michelin's had way more grip and felt more stable. There was a night and day difference.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

Mdk330i said:


> This one was bone stock.


You can't make a good racecar out of shit. They've also won a bunch of races in Showroom Stock B as well.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

boxerman said:


> got the point, thanks. Will go for "regular" m3. While we're at it any tire suggestions?


At the very least change the front tire size to something wider. There is waaaay too much understeer, and the ridiculous amount of tire stagger as it comes from the factory doesn't help.

I was lucky enough to get Pilots from the factory, but as mentioned before, you don't get to pick what you get. The Pilots imo aren't very good for track duty anyway. I suggest getting PS2's or BFG KDW's.


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

elbert said:


> You can't make a good racecar out of shit. They've also won a bunch of races in Showroom Stock B as well.


I get your point. How about this? I saw a Passat station wagon on the track.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

Mdk330i said:


> I get your point. How about this? I saw a Passat station wagon on the track.


 :rofl:

edit: I used to own a Prelude VTEC so I probably took it a little personally


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## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

elbert said:


> :rofl:


This is ture. I really saw a Passat on the track at California Speedway. I turned a corner and saw it in front of me. I was shocked to see it. But as long as the driver was having fun.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

rennfahrer said:


> scuse moi'
> but what is ZCP air?
> is this a new element that i'm not aware of???


'Twas a joke.

Just not a very good one.


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## rrsperry (Oct 21, 2003)

elbert said:


> You can't make a good racecar out of shit. They've also won a bunch of races in Showroom Stock B as well.


 I beg to differ. You can make a great race car out of ****. In the early 70's the Ford Pinto won in IMSA GTU.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

rrsperry said:


> I beg to differ. You can make a great race car out of ****. In the early 70's the Ford Pinto won in IMSA GTU.


Carson Baird won the championship in a Pinto in TU (not GTU) in 1972, but the BMW 2002 won the manufacturer's championship. The Pinto was a decent race car, but he won based on consistent finishes, not because he had a dominant car.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

I've seen a Chevy Impala on the track, a BMW X5, a number of Toyota Camrys, and other interesting vehicles.

I've also seen a 9 second Honda Insight.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Has the ZCP for the M3 reached ZHP for the 330i levels of hatred yet? It seems like it will if enough "ZCP" buyers or potential buyers start posting here...


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