# Buying X54.8is and 760Li the same time..



## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

HI, I'm planning on buying a X5 4.8is and a 760Li from the same dealer, both cars fully loaded (X5:$73KMSRP, 760LI:$130MSRP). I will also order Accessories for about 12K. Order-date will be December, FICO about 700. I will trade in 2 cars, a 2004 Mercury Mountaineer and a 2003 VW Jetta GLX. The Jetta is upside down by about $6K, the Mercury about $12K. I'm planning on leasing the new cars with $0 down and 60 months, 10Kmiles/year. I want to buy those cars out after 18 months and finance the pay-off amount. I know that financing from the beginning would be cheaper over time, but I prefer to keep the monthly payments lower. I used the Kelly Blue-Book Trade in value. What can I expect based on these numbers? I thought of adding the negative amount of the trade-in vehicles and the accessories and spread it over the two cars by calculating a selling price of 122K for the 760LI and 70K for the 4.8is. Can I get a rebate on the Accessories, too due to the large amount? What monthly payments can I expect based on my numbers? What do you think about the numbers of leasecompare.com? Are those numbers realistic? Any experience with them? Any suggestions what would be the best deal?

Your help is really appreciated :thumbup: 

Thank you in advance!


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

:bling: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :bling: 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*If I would be rich, I'd pay in cash*

 ..but I'm not! Those two vehicles have to last for the next seven to ten years or so, because we have been ripped with those fast depreciating vehicles. My mother and I decided to get the top of the lines and keep them for a long time (if we would be rich, I wouldn't search for every possibility to keep the payments low). We already pay $1400/month together for the Jetta and the Mercury - and in relation to those BMWs, that's much too much :thumbdwn:

We don't want to be fooled by the dealer again, that's why I'm posting here. :angel:


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## MarcusSDCA (Jan 14, 2004)

Hmmmm...these are 2 vehicles that I would buy as CPO cars....you could save $50-70K in depreciation right off the bat and have great warranties too. I would think that if you could find these used from a dealer they would have low miles on them.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Thanks,*



MARCUS545 said:


> Hmmmm...these are 2 vehicles that I would buy as CPO cars....you could save $50K in depreciation right off the bat and have great warranties too. I would think that if you could find these used from a dealer they would have low miles on them.


thanks, but finding those two cars the way I'd like them (even finding a 760LI at all) in my area is nearly impossible.. :dunno:

Depreciation is a big issue, especially on V12, but the money on those cars is well spend (our crappy Mountaineer had a lose screw in the side-door after 2 weeks...). I simply try to find the best deal and want to find out what I can expect when it comes to contract-signing... :eeps:


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## mspeed76 (Nov 13, 2003)

is this a real post? man im sorry, but you have some twisted logic to rationalize such a purchase. depreciation is gonna to be huge on both of those cars.

how is the 65% cost increase of a 760 over a 745 "well spent"? it won't be any more reliable (probably less) and will depreciate more.

so you're upside down on 2 car leases and you want to lease another $200k in cars, put $0 down for a lease, and then finance the buyout 1.5 years later? that has to be the worst financial move ever.

my advice is if you really want a long lasting, low cost/maintenance, low deprecation bmw, i'd say BUY a 530i and pay cash or finance as little as possible.

oh, and you should read this http://biz.yahoo.com/pfg/e16buylease/


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

760Lifan said:


> Your help is really appreciated :thumbup:
> 
> Thank you in advance!


How much do you drive a year? Are you espeically hard on cars?

Why not just lease them and turn them in at the end of a 36 month lease? This way you won't have unplanned payments for repairs or maintaince and BMWFS will pick up part of the depriciation.
BMWFS typically has very high residuals.

You asked. Here is what I would do:

If the either of the current cars are leased, I'd wait out the lease, rather than eat the $18K. If they are financed, I'd take the bath now as the selling price will only go down.

Lease a new X5 at the best deal I could get -- 36/39months and a realistic number of miles. I'd put enough in to pay taxes fees and a security deposit. The lease rates are better this way than on a sign and drive. I'd put in little or no cap reduction though. Turn in the X5 at the end of the lease and get a new one. Sometimes BMWFS will make an offer at the end of the lease. Evaluate this if and when.

A new 760Li is a huge loss no matter how you get it. Instead of the 760, I'd get a super clean 10 to 15 year old car and spend the money to keep it that way. You can get a really nice stand out looking BMW for < $10,000. In many ways the e32 and e38 7 series are better cars then the current 760. You could get a 635csi, a 740 or a 740iL. The older cars have a 300,000 mile design life and are amazingly durable. Far better than current production. I'd stay away from the e32 750i> The early V12s are not reliable. I'd also stay away from a 10+ year old M car, the repairs will kill you.

Another option would be a 2000 or 2001 e38 740i or 750iL as a CPO. You could get nice 2001 740i for $30,000. A 750iL will be closer to $50K. After the CPO is up, repairs and maintaince over 10 years will be more than on the older cars, but this will still cost you far far less than a new 760iL over 10 years. The e38 740 is a great looking car and wonderful behind the wheel too.

Our 1990 535i has been least expensive car I've ever owned. (including depriciation, repairs, insurance....)

I'm not saying the new cars aren't nice. We like our 2004...


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Thanks,but..*

I can't take your answers seriously :thumbdwn: 
First, if somebody thinks a ten year old 7-series or 530i is somewhat the same as a e66 760Li is lost on this forum :tsk:

Maybe somebody has real numbers for me and no jokes about $10K-cars and such junk..


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

760Lifan said:


> Maybe somebody has real numbers for me and no jokes about $10K-cars and such junk..


I think your problem is this: you're looking to buy $200k worth of new autos, pay off $18k in debt on your current, far less extravagant cars, and are expecting very personalized financial attention to your plight.

Here's what you need to do:
1) Figure out what a reasonable price on the cars you want are.

2) Call a dealer to find out what kind of deal they can offer, as well as lease options.

3) Negotiate a price, and negotiate the options--which if built in are negotiable, but probably less so if simply parts.

4) Figure out if you can cover the several $k in lease payments per month.

Personally, I'd be uncomfortable dropping that kind of money on two cars unless I could pay cash for them. I might finance for liquidity reasons, but it seems like you're trying to find a way to drive much "more car" than you can realistically afford.

Regardless, your biggest problem is not getting the lease, it's your expectation to be able to finance the payoff of the lease at any point. It's pretty unlikely you're going to find an aftermarket lender to take two 2 y.o. cars as collateral for the full amount needed to buy them. What you're doing is deferring full payment of the purchase price for a couple of years. So the payoff amount is going to be the price of the car less a little bit of lease payment attributed to car value and depreciation. But while a lease assumes straight-line depreciation over 3-4 years, in reality most of it is in the first day, and the very large chun in the first two years. So, you'll be upside down on the lease on both cars, and looking to make a payoff of $160k with collateral of two 2 year old cars worth, at that time, closer to $120k. If you can find a bank to take that deal, well, I want in.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

A 60 month lease on a 760Li is about $2000 per month, plus sales tax. A 60 month lease on an X5 4.8 is just under $1000 per month, plus sales tax. These payments are just for the cars, and do not include anything else.

On top of that, add about $350 per month over the 60 months to cover your $18000 negative equity, and $230 to cover your $12000 in accessories.

Of course, these are just estimates and are subject to change based on your actual final costs, credit approval, and changes in BMW's rates and residuals.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

760Lifan said:


> I can't take your answers seriously :thumbdwn:


That was a serious answer. You asked what I'd do and I gave an honest answer. I find jumping from a negative equity Jetta to a 760Li hard to take seriously.

Chosing between a new $120,000 760Li and a 3 year old $50,000 CPO 750iL is a no-brainer for me. I've seen both cars. I think the e38 is better.

Lease payments on a new 760Li are going to be over $2000 a month! The car's value will take a dive as soon as you drive it off the lot. It will continue to go nowhere but down over the next 10 years.

I'd take the 750iL and save a HUGE amount of money.



> ten year old 7-series somewhat the same as a e66 760Li


No they are not. Keeping a 6 to 10 year old 760Li in good working order is going to be no fun at all.

D'oh I coulda had a Z8


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Minor thread jack.


Anyone else ever notice that it is the 750's that are often the most neglected?

I've lived and worked near areas where there are enough of the top end 7ers, that I can compare them with the lesser 7 series and 5ers. It seems that the top end cars are often dirty, dented and neglected.


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## kindofblue (Sep 15, 2004)

*Image is everything!!*

Hmm... interesting thread.
Just a random thought: If I were 25 and I had a trust fund taking care
of me somewhere, even then I wouldn't buy a 760i.

I mean think of it this way: if I am 25 and I pull up with a M3 convertile
then it conveys that I am doing well in life, I have good taste and there
is a good chance I am pulling decent money to buy it. In other words,
it says "young rich successful virile!" :thumbup:

On the other hand, if I am 25 and I pull up in a 760i, then 99% of the
time people would think that my dad lent me the keys to his car for a
night around town! In other words, I am young, rich and sheltered!

I would take my money and buy a 530i & a roadster (M3cab or Boxster maybe!).
It would cost me almost the same as a 760i but this way I would take care
of utility and fun at the same time.

Not to mention I would be a much better chick magnet! :bigpimp:


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

If money is an issue, and you're already strapped with negative equity going into the purchase, I'm thinking more and more that you'd be better off with a preowned 760Li if you can find something close to what you want. You think being $5-10,000 upside down is bad? How about being $30-40,000 upside down (plus any negative equity you carry in from another car). The second you drive off the lot, the 760 is worth below $100,000. Put any miles on it, and the value keeps dropping. After a year or two, it levels off a bit, but it's still dropping.

You can buy a nice 2003 with CPO (or even without it-- all 2002 and 2003 7-series have a FULL 6 year/100k mile warranty through BMW now) in the high $80,000's, and a used 2004 in the $90,000's.

For example, aside from the color, here's a bargain:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ory=6009&item=2493224087&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Here's another example that has been around for a while, and should sell in the $80,000's:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...ory=6009&item=2492854825&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

The market for pre-owned 760's has been very awkward, and the values have been nearly impossible to determine. The silver one above has been at that dealer for a while, as I've seen it listed several times on ebay. The true value of the car is in the high 80's, but they're probably looking for something in the 90's because they aquired it when the market for the car was in the 90's. Make 'em an offer, and they might just want to get rid of the car.

There's also another dealer (Bowling Green) that has listed a pre-owned 760 that they have had since the new year (yikes!!!). I'm sure they are desperate to move it. How do I know they've had it that long? Well, we had a similar car, similarly priced at the time (January), also listed on ebay. We wholesaled the car in February or March of this year, but as of a few weeks ago, I was still seeing the other dealer listing theirs on ebay. If there's anyone out there desperate to move a car, it's them.

Look around a bit, and you can probably save yourself $30,000-50,000 on the 760 alone. Also, by finding a slightly used (or leftover 2004) 4.8, you can also save a bundle.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*I share this car...*



kindofblue said:


> Hmm... interesting thread.
> Just a random thought: If I were 25 and I had a trust fund taking care
> of me somewhere, even then I wouldn't buy a 760i.
> 
> ...


..with my mother (56) and we both prefer cars where we have sufficient space. Boxter, roadster and M3 do not meet this creteria.If I would be looking for a car to impress others, there are many better and cheaper ways to go - but that's not the case. We already owned a 528iA and it's a nice car for sure - but 760Li is a different level. By the way, I don't have any assets and make about 3K/month. I simply don't have any other expenses and my priority is my car. I don't drink, smoke, am single and don't go out on weekends. Driving a 760Li at the age of 25 might be rare, but finding a 25 year old who can be described as above is rare, too. :bigpimp:


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## mspeed76 (Nov 13, 2003)

getting back to the original problem..

he's upside down on 2 car leases because of the "high depreciation" and being "ripped off" by the dealer. 

and he wants to solve the problem by leasing again and then financing the payoff. with "top of the lines" that should have less maintenance problems and can last 10 years.

this whole notion is just ridiculous. your payments will be double what they are now and will have dug yourself into an even bigger hole.

__________________

ok, dude, you're 25, make 3k a month and have no assets? are you bragging? well how about putting your money into assets? you really need to re-analyze your priorities


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Thanks..*



SARAFIL said:


> If money is an issue, and you're already strapped with negative equity going into the purchase, I'm thinking more and more that you'd be better off with a preowned 760Li if you can find something close to what you want. You think being $5-10,000 upside down is bad? How about being $30-40,000 upside down (plus any negative equity you carry in from another car). The second you drive off the lot, the 760 is worth below $100,000. Put any miles on it, and the value keeps dropping. After a year or two, it levels off a bit, but it's still dropping.
> 
> You can buy a nice 2003 with CPO (or even without it-- all 2002 and 2003 7-series have a FULL 6 year/100k mile warranty through BMW now) in the high $80,000's, and a used 2004 in the $90,000's.
> 
> ...


..but in my area, finding a pre-owned 760Li is almost impossible. I decided on paying the two cars off to avoid carrying a negative amount into this transaction. I also decided to cut the accessories by half and pay them up front in cash. In addition, I will try to negotiate a selling-price of 122K for the 760Li (8K under MSRP) and 70K for the X5 (4K under MSRP). I'm going to pay 1K down for each car and lease each vehicle for 48 months (whole period covered by warranty and free service). The total monthly payments for both cars runs up to $3,100 incl. tax. This amount is still lots of money, but since I moved from Germany to the States, believe me, for those cars, it's a bargain (760Li in Germany costs $170K, a X54.8is costs $100K, both cars with the same options)  I needn't mention insurance and gas, bot tripple the US-costs!!


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Just so you know, many mechanics refuse to work on V12 BMWs. Your cost to maintain it out of warranty will probably be just about the same as if you bought another one. If you want to do it, go ahead... But anyone who can't manage to purchase a Jetta and a Mountaneer without getting ripped has essentially no chance of pulling this off competently.

You and your Mom are downright stupid if you think that what you're doing makes any financial sense. Don't even THINK about trying to justify it that way. If you (she) can afford it, then go for it and enjoy them. I'm rather concerned that this purchase will squeeze your finances excessively, though, given how concerned you are about squeezing the last drop out o fthe payments. That doesn't bode well when you're talking about $40-$50,000 per year on two cars. (I really don't happen to think that's a big deal, it's just a number ou need to be aware of.)


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## Jever (Apr 16, 2003)

760Lifan said:


> ..but in my area, finding a pre-owned 760Li is almost impossible. I decided on paying the two cars off to avoid carrying a negative amount into this transaction. I also decided to cut the accessories by half and pay them up front in cash. In addition, I will try to negotiate a selling-price of 122K for the 760Li (8K under MSRP) and 70K for the X5 (4K under MSRP). I'm going to pay 1K down for each car and lease each vehicle for 48 months (whole period covered by warranty and free service). The total monthly payments for both cars runs up to $3,100 incl. tax. This amount is still lots of money, but since I moved from Germany to the States, believe me, for those cars, it's a bargain (760Li in Germany costs $170K, a X54.8is costs $100K, both cars with the same options)  I needn't mention insurance and gas, bot tripple the US-costs!!


That's 100$ more per month than you stated that you make. Plus you still have to insure them. I'm sure that a 25 y.o. insuring 200k in cars can't possibly be inexpensive! Oh, and don't forget that you'll need to buy gas to make them move. I admire your ambition, but I would have to think that you are setting yourself up with an a future meeting with the repo-man.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Uh, is that $36,000 per year before or after taxes?

Given that you're going to pay $24,000 for the lease, $2-$6,000 for insurance, ~$2,000 for gas, some amount in taxes/registration, not to mention tires and all sorts of other stuff, I'm just absolutely mystified.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Got new information!*



SARAFIL said:


> Break resistant glass is a big pain in the arse because in many cases, it will start to delaminate over many years, and then you're stuck with a car that neeeds to have all the windows replaced at an astronomical cost. The way I see it, it offers lots of potential headaches and few positives, unless you live in a really bad area where theft is a big problem, or you like to keep obviously expensive items in plain view in the interior of the car while it's parked.


Actually, it's hard to tell what will happen in a few years because I assume you're still talking about the old break resistant glass used by BMW a few years ago. That was yesterday. I found a link that shows security glass used to be much thicker than the normal glass and that it included two layers of foil. The security glass used in the E65/66 since 2002 developed by DuPont consits 100% of glass - no foil any more and it is almost as thin as the normal glass. BMW switched to this glass because it has the advantage of fitting into the standard window-frame :thumbup: .

http://www.dupont-presse.de/buta/buta-2002-d-10.htm

The site is in German, but you can see the different styles (alt=old;neu=new).
Since the whole window is made of glass now I don't see a laminate-problem.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

760Lifan said:


> I was already a customer at "BMW Niederlassung München", the Headquarters of BMW, you too??


"BMW Niederlassung München" is just the main dealership in Munich. BMW AG doesn't sell cars _per se_.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Yes, but..*



andy_thomas said:


> "BMW Niederlassung München" is just the main dealership in Munich. BMW AG doesn't sell cars _per se_.


..this "dealership" isn't like all the others. Dingolfing isn't far away from Munich and it's definitely correct to consider this the main dealer for BMW (you have to see this building to understand what I'm talking about). They even allow you to order a car and buy it pre-owned - show me where you can do that in the US! The dealer drives the car for 5000KM and you receive a rebate of 10%. :thumbup:

If you think BMW and Munich do not have a special "relationship", you're dead wrong! I already spoke to many Americans who visited Munich and really enjoyed their visit to the BMW-museum. Why do you think this museum is located in Munich? The name "Bayerische Motoren Werke" already shows that. Just a reminder: Munich is the capital of Bayern/Bavaria. There is NO other city where you find as many bimmers as in Munich - even every police-car is a bimmer. I was living next to this city for more than 20 years.


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## schreck (Jul 29, 2004)

Yeah, the security glass is definitely a cool feature, but it's definitely not totally necessary. Is your car garaged at night in a calm and safe neighbourhood? How often are through these "rough" parts of Tampa. I'm sure many people have this worry of someone running up to their car and trying to carjack them, but that doesn't mean that this worried is justified. Unless it it Totally necessary, I don't think it'd be a wise investment putting (however much it costs , sorry , I don't even know the price) into it.

Alex


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

760Lifan said:


> ..this "dealership" isn't like all the others. Dingolfing isn't far away from Munich and it's definitely correct to consider this the main dealer for BMW (you have to see this building to understand what I'm talking about). They even allow you to order a car and buy it pre-owned - show me where you can do that in the US! The dealer drives the car for 5000KM and you receive a rebate of 10%. :thumbup:
> 
> If you think BMW and Munich do not have a special "relationship", you're dead wrong! I already spoke to many Americans who visited Munich and really enjoyed their visit to the BMW-museum. Why do you think this museum is located in Munich? The name "Bayerische Motoren Werke" already shows that. Just a reminder: Munich is the capital of Bayern/Bavaria. There is NO other city where you find as many bimmers as in Munich - even every police-car is a bimmer. I was living next to this city for more than 20 years.


I know all the above. But I have only been to Munich twice, both for meetings; I was there only for a day both times, didn't do any driving, and the guy who picked me up from the airport was driving an A6.

It just read like you were a special corporate client of BMW's, having dealt directly with HQ when you obtained your last BMW. It's no big deal.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> I know all the above. But I have only been to Munich twice, both for meetings; I was there only for a day both times, didn't do any driving, and the guy who picked me up from the airport was driving an A6.
> 
> It just read like you were a special corporate client of BMW's, having dealt directly with HQ when you obtained your last BMW. It's no big deal.


...You're right, a was no special corporate client of BMW.I just wanted to say that we always had a special "relationship" to BMW resulting from the location we were living at.

By the way, it was great to have the possibility to order the car you prefered, will all your special options and receive a huge rebate for a car that was almost brand new. Damn, I'd gladly have this program in the States for the 760LI - that would make a difference...


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

schreck said:


> Yeah, the security glass is definitely a cool feature, but it's definitely not totally necessary. Is your car garaged at night in a calm and safe neighbourhood? How often are through these "rough" parts of Tampa. I'm sure many people have this worry of someone running up to their car and trying to carjack them, but that doesn't mean that this worried is justified. Unless it it Totally necessary, I don't think it'd be a wise investment putting (however much it costs , sorry , I don't even know the price) into it.
> 
> Alex


The cost is $2,600 and I agree that you can also live without it. My car won't always be garaged at night and I will drive to these parts of Tampa about 3 times a week. The community I'm living in is gated, but - I don't know why - nearly no community-meeting goes by without getting news about broken windows and stolen radios (at least that shouldn't be an issue in the 7-series). I assume the laminate shouldn't "get loose" during the first 4 years, because sarafil was talking about "after many years". Maybe BMW improved this since 2002 when they introduced the new security-glass by Du Pont (cool, only 3 layers and as thick as regular glass).

Due to the fact that it will be a leased car, I checked the numbers with and without the feature - the difference was minor. And since this car is that expensive anyway, I prefer paying this kind of "security-fee" of about $30/month. I can save money by deleting the 20" wheels and tires, because the standard 19" look nice, too (saw them on a silver 745Li - impressive AND easy to clean). I could almost save $4,000.

I also compared the quotes of a 760I and 760LI and the difference is only about $100/month - but everybody knows that you get "much more car" and options on the 760Li, the interior quality is different, too, so the 760i is no good alternative. :thumbdwn:


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## newdad (Aug 20, 2004)

*define rich*



760Lifan said:


> ....but I still have a father who makes tripple the amount....


3*12K*12 + 12K*12 + 3K*12 > 610K



760Lifan said:


> ....if we would be rich....


i thought 610K/yr for a 3-person household was pretty decent, no? 

oh well maybe not in Tampa... :dunno:


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Well, ask Bill Gates..*



newdad said:


> 3*12K*12 + 12K*12 + 3K*12 > 610K
> 
> i thought 610K/yr for a 3-person household was pretty decent, no?
> 
> oh well maybe not in Tampa... :dunno:


.....or do you know why somebody posted the following:

"After taxes, you guys still don't have all THAT much. ~$250K/year really doesn't buy all that much...."

So, what should I say :dunno:

And, by the way, I actually started this forum WITHOUT the intention to present my family-income. Who are YOU anyway, where are you living and how much do YOU make?? I believe this kind of cheap posting has nothing to do with bimmerfest.com and what the founder of this forum was thinking about when he started this website. Keep that in mind. I thought I could expect answers without that. Just take a look at 90% of the replies to this post - simply junk and I'm really disappointed. It is such a good website but the content?? I guess roadfly does better...(I can actually talk about cars and not about income on roadfly). If you're not a dealer - what I guess - WHY ARE YOU RESPONDING TO THIS POST anyway and in such manner - not helpful and 100% useless :thumbdwn:


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## Mathew (Feb 8, 2002)

What dealer in Tampa are you referring to? Reeves, Bert Smith, Fields, Ferman, etc?


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

Mathew said:


> What dealer in Tampa are you referring to? Reeves, Bert Smith, Fields, Ferman, etc?


I visited Reeves.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

philippek said:


> I believe the industry term is "BURIED"


Just out of interest how much would a 760Li be worth in the US market in 3 years' time? It's reckoned on about 20% (really - as bad as a VW Phaeton) in Britland on the basis of the electronics complexity, BMW UK dealership repair costs and the price of parts. From a chap on one of the UK boards:

"The trouble is the sheer complexity of a modern car - just one microchip down and the car is a useless ornament. The thing is, the motor trade has always adapted to whatever technology car makers dream up. Bosch Motronic, the most common engine management system around today was first used on a 7 Series in '79 and every car mechanic drew a sharp breath with fear. Before this, BMW's used four barrel carbs....

This time it's different. Let's say your 8 year old, £2500 E65 has failed the MOT on a dead taillamp and a pair of knackered [Dynamic Drive] anti roll bar motors. £1500 for the new bits plus coding and fitting. It's going to be in Auto Trader, 'spares or repair'."

Part of this is to do with the high rates charged by UK dealers, leading to very early write-off periods, and partly to do with the protectionism involved in service information. A 760Li is a great car, no doubt - when somebody else is paying for it


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## Mathew (Feb 8, 2002)

Cool. That's where we've gotten ours from. 

Who have you spoken with? I know a lot of the guys there.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> Just out of interest how much would a 760Li be worth in the US market in 3 years' time? It's reckoned on about 20% (really - as bad as a VW Phaeton) in Britland on the basis of the electronics complexity, BMW UK dealership repair costs and the price of parts. From a chap on one of the UK boards:


Well, I see that a black 2004 with 9,xxx miles just went through a BMWFS auction at a touch under $90,000. Seeing that it cost $120,000+ new, that's already a bad sign.

I'd guess say that in 3 years, they'll sell at wholesale below $50,000, and retail will be in the higher $50,000's. It's sad but true that after 3 years or so, a V12 7 series is worth little more than a V8 7 series, because all of the extra electronics and their contribution to the insane maintenance costs on these cars.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> This time it's different. Let's say your 8 year old, £2500 E65 has failed the MOT on a dead taillamp and a pair of knackered [Dynamic Drive] anti roll bar motors. £1500 for the new bits plus coding and fitting. It's going to be in Auto Trader, 'spares or repair'."


Only a few US states require a safety inspection. A few more states require a 'horn and light' test before you can drive a car that has a salvage title.

Smog tests are common in larger metropolitan areas. Getting an older E65 to pass the annual smog test won't be fun at all. My 1990 535i has passes every year. Our newer OBD II cars never do. The Volvo would never pass due to a software error. After paying for a failed test we had to take it a referee. The 318ti is a huge pain to get past smog too. It never has any real problems but suffers from endless 'not ready' codes.

When California started requiring smog tests of all cars 1974 and newer the price of a '74 Porsche dropped like a rock.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

wndrful said:


> The thread gets more interesting.
> 
> I went back and read his first post again. In it he asked for advice on
> the lease numbers and on deal pricing, not on what car he should buy.
> ...


But then this site would be dull and boring and absolutely no fun. I vote for doing it the other way.

Alex


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> But then this site would be dull and boring and absolutely no fun. I vote for doing it the other way.
> 
> Alex


 :rofl:

Ok guys, let's try not to give the original poster a hard time, and leave him responsible for determining whether or not getting a 760 is the right thing for him to do. If he can pull it off, and that is how he wants to spend his money, more power to him.


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## Jever (Apr 16, 2003)

760Lifan said:


> I had questions about what to do, I received answers (not everybody is as useless to this forum as you are - by the way, why do you answer in the "Ask-a-Dealer"-Forum? If you would be a dealer and have this attitude towards your customers, you would be fired the first day), and decided what to do. I was already a customer at "BMW Niederlassung München", the Headquarters of BMW, you too??


With all due respect to you, 760Lifan, I think you might want to check your attitude a bit. You asked for advice, were given advice and then chose to jump all over people about their thoughts. It's your money, spend it as you wish. Most tend to think it foolish, but what business is it for a man to tell another man how to spend his money? If buying these cars is what you wish to do, more power to you my friend. I beg you to heed the words of the dealers that post here as they are not here to make money off you, but to try and save you a lot of trouble.



760Lifan said:


> I don't have any assets and make about 3K/month.





youandnick said:


> Quote:
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nick325xiT 5spd*
> _Just so you know, many mechanics refuse to work on V12 BMWs. Your cost to maintain it out of warranty will probably be just about the same as if you bought another one. If you want to do it, go ahead... But anyone who can't manage to purchase a Jetta and a Mountaneer without getting ripped has essentially no chance of pulling this off competently.
> ...


Oh sh!t, more info that was NOT GIVEN UP FRONT.



760Lifan said:


> ... but my mother does :thumbup: She makes +$10K a month, an by the way, why should I pay for her car, too  ? Insurance for both cars (GEICO) comes to about $290/month, right now we pay $220 with Mercury Insurance. My mum isn't 25 any more  and there is a huge price-difference between being 24 and 25. Gas in the states is not an issue: First, I am used to German prices ($5/Gallon), Second, the Mountaineer has a lower gas-mileage than the X5 and I am not a business-driver (I drive about 9K/year max.). Right now, I don't pay a single penny for my car so the chances for the repo-man aren't great :bigpimp:


Could there be any more facts that the posters here are just supposed to know? Wait, there is one! 


760Lifan said:


> *I do...*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> .. but I still have a father who makes tripple the amount. That's more than sufficient for a 3-person household, IMO





760Lifan said:


> I had questions about what to do, I received answers (*not everybody is as useless to this forum as you are* - by the way, why do you answer in the "Ask-a-Dealer"-Forum? If you would be a dealer and have this attitude towards your customers, you would be fired the first day), and decided what to do. I was already a customer at "BMW Niederlassung München", the Headquarters of BMW, you too??


Bro, people are more apt to try and help, advise or instruct when they know that they aren't going to be sh!t upon just because you don't hear what you want to hear. I think the cars you want to buy are sweet, I hope you swing it and drive the hell out of them for the next 10 years but DAMN, being polite can go a long way. Sorry, I'm in a bad mood tonight. Don't take any of this personally.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> Well, I see that a black 2004 with 9,xxx miles just went through a BMWFS auction at a touch under $90,000. Seeing that it cost $120,000+ new, that's already a bad sign.
> 
> I'd guess say that in 3 years, they'll sell at wholesale below $50,000, and retail will be in the higher $50,000's. It's sad but true that after 3 years or so, a V12 7 series is worth little more than a V8 7 series, because all of the extra electronics and their contribution to the insane maintenance costs on these cars.


Indeed - an E38 750i or iL is now about the same price as an E38 728i. Why? The 728i has all of the road presence of the 750i, and the same mechanical servicing needs as a 328i.

If BMW has designed reduncancy into the new range of cars (i.e. lots of small electronic failures here and there, but the car can still get around) then perhaps their on-road lives will be extended a little. Personally I could see a time when you get 10 years' servicing for free, not five - it can't be good for BMW's reputation to see their E65 cyborg killer limo turned into a shagged-out old smoker the moment the warranty runs out.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*You're right,*



Jever said:


> With all due respect to you, 760Lifan, I think you might want to check your attitude a bit. You asked for advice, were given advice and then chose to jump all over people about their thoughts. It's your money, spend it as you wish. Most tend to think it foolish, but what business is it for a man to tell another man how to spend his money? If buying these cars is what you wish to do, more power to you my friend. I beg you to heed the words of the dealers that post here as they are not here to make money off you, but to try and save you a lot of trouble.
> 
> Oh sh!t, more info that was NOT GIVEN UP FRONT.
> 
> ...


...I guess you still didn't get it. Do you really think I need advice to find out that a 760Li is "somewhat" more expensive than a 745Li - please be serious. You posted "It's your money, spend it as you wish.." - when I was reading some of the posts, I almost forgot that fact.


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## Jever (Apr 16, 2003)

760Lifan said:


> ...I guess you still didn't get it. Do you really think I need advice to find out that a 760Li is "somewhat" more expensive than a 745Li - please be serious. You posted "It's your money, spend it as you wish.." - when I was reading some of the posts, I almost forgot that fact.


I never said a 760 is somewhat more expensive than a 745.  I just quoted you ragging on people for not knowing the "facts" when you didn't give any of us all the "facts" about your situation. Like I said before, I'm not trying to tell you you're stupid or wrong or anything, just saying that not being a jerk to those offering their opinions to your request for opinions is a good thing.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*O.K., now I see what you mean..*



Jever said:


> I never said a 760 is somewhat more expensive than a 745.  I just quoted you ragging on people for not knowing the "facts" when you didn't give any of us all the "facts" about your situation. Like I said before, I'm not trying to tell you you're stupid or wrong or anything, just saying that not being a jerk to those offering their opinions to your request for opinions is a good thing.


....when I ragged about people not knowing the facts, I had a reason for that. I didn't ragged about not knowing the facts about my special case, they simply posted wrong information (i.e. high lease has bad influence on Fico-score - simply incorrect! You needn't know my family's income to find out that that's not true). This is just one example, but you can already see that the discussion turned from a request over a lease into a "defense-fight" from my side and that was not what I wanted and intended. If you read the post from the beginning, you will see that there where people who seriously intended to help me and provide me with some information, but in 80% of the postings, that was simply not the case (SARAFIL posted that, too).


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

760Lifan said:


> ....when I ragged about people not knowing the facts, I had a reason for that. I didn't ragged about not knowing the facts about my special case, they simply posted wrong information (i.e. high lease has bad influence on Fico-score - simply incorrect! You needn't know my family's income to find out that that's not true). This is just one example, but you can already see that the discussion turned from a request over a lease into a "defense-fight" from my side and that was not what I wanted and intended. If you read the post from the beginning, you will see that there where people who seriously intended to help me and provide me with some information, but in 80% of the postings, that was simply not the case (SARAFIL posted that, too).


All true. On Saturday I saw a really nice 740iL CPO at a dealer. 

They also had a CPO 745Li with the ventilated seats. A nice option. Might be a hard sell with winter on the way. I drove a Saab 9000 with seat fans. Does wonders on hot sunny summer days.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> They also had a CPO 745Li with the ventilated seats. A nice option. Might be a hard sell with winter on the way. \


But, the cars with ventilated seats also have heated seats!!


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## bbkat (Oct 27, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> But, the cars with ventilated seats also have heated seats!!


Perfect for women!

But they'll still find a reason to complain :rofl:


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

bbkat said:


> Perfect for women!
> 
> But they'll still find a reason to complain :rofl:


They've got "active seats", too. (a.k.a. an ass massage)


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## pcmike (Jan 4, 2003)

I've only read the first page of this thread and man is it funny. Though the whole thing about $120K/yr not being alot of money is a little crazy. $120K/yr is a damn good salary for a single person with little to no personal debt. That's about what I'll be making when I get out of school at 25yrs old and I can't wait till that day! Granted, I don't plan on making ONLY $120K/yr my entire life, nor do I plan on buying a 760Li (haha :rofl: ). However, I do plan on getting some sort of BIMMER a couple years after starting my new job (and after the student loans are paid off). I can't wait till graduate school is over!

Anyhow, back to this thread.. its just too amusing to pass up the next two pages of posts. At 25 years old, I'd be happy with a 5-series and peace of mind knowing that my wallet is still intact and staying in the positive (and still saving for the future).


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

pcmike said:


> I've only read the first page of this thread and man is it funny. Though the whole thing about $120K/yr not being alot of money is a little crazy. $120K/yr is a damn good salary for a single person with little to no personal debt. That's about what I'll be making when I get out of school at 25yrs old and I can't wait till that day! Granted, I don't plan on making ONLY $120K/yr my entire life, nor do I plan on buying a 760Li (haha :rofl: ). However, I do plan on getting some sort of BIMMER a couple years after starting my new job (and after the student loans are paid off). I can't wait till graduate school is over!
> 
> Anyhow, back to this thread.. its just too amusing to pass up the next two pages of posts. At 25 years old, I'd be happy with a 5-series and peace of mind knowing that my wallet is still intact and staying in the positive (and still saving for the future).


Yep, you're absolutely right! That's why we decided to wait an additional 15 months and put my mother into that car. And I think the 5-series is the right car for me...(see below):bigpimp:

I never thought that this thread would show up again...:thumbup:


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## wwb4 (Dec 29, 2005)

760Lifan said:


> Yep, you're absolutely right! That's why we decided to wait an additional 15 months and put my mother into that car. And I think the 5-series is the right car for me...(see below):bigpimp:
> 
> I never thought that this thread would show up again...:thumbup:


Looking forward to seeing pics of your M5 when you get it. :thumbup:


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

wwb4 said:


> Looking forward to seeing pics of your M5 when you get it. :thumbup:


Sure, I'm going to post pics. I will also add some of my mother's car. The pics I posted so far weren't that good (all taken in the garage...).


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

760Lifan said:


> ..but I'm not! Those two vehicles have to last for the next seven to ten years or so, because we have been ripped with those fast depreciating vehicles. My mother and I decided to get the top of the lines and keep them for a long time (if we would be rich, I wouldn't search for every possibility to keep the payments low).


If you are not rich, you shouldn't be buying a 760. That is a rich man's car. If you do get one, I would not keep it beyond the lease.


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## SteveinBelAir (Dec 28, 2005)

Wow. Where did you order your M5 from? That's a a step up from an X5.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

mspeed76 said:


> is this a real post? man im sorry, but you have some twisted logic to rationalize such a purchase. depreciation is gonna to be huge on both of those cars.
> 
> how is the 65% cost increase of a 760 over a 745 "well spent"? it won't be any more reliable (probably less) and will depreciate more.
> 
> ...


While I agree that a 760 is a bad idea for anyone not dripping with money, that article you linked to is complete rubish. The woman does not know what she is talking about.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Long ago...*



adgrant said:


> If you are not rich, you shouldn't be buying a 760. That is a rich man's car. If you do get one, I would not keep it beyond the lease.


Times are changing fast! The thread began 15 months ago and we already took delivery of the 760Li (nit for me...but for my mum). We won't keep it beyond the lease (48 months).


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*From Adrian....*



SteveinBelAir said:


> Wow. Where did you order your M5 from? That's a a step up from an X5.


I was thinking about the X5 4.8is but with a new model coming in 2007 and a Jeep in the garage (actually my brother's ride), I thought we wouldn't need a 2nd SUV so I picked something "sporty" instead.:banana:

I ordered the M5 from Adrian (Ask-A-Dealer, Nalley BMW) on Monday! It's already scheduled for production and will be here in March. Adrian is simply cool!:bigpimp: No mark-up, NO :blah: , he simply does what he says and he's reliable.:thumbup: My local dealer where we got the 760Li from did a great job as well but he had a waiting-list of about 6 months....

So far, I can only recommend Adrian...


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## SteveinBelAir (Dec 28, 2005)

Wow. What are the lease payments on the M?


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

SteveinBelAir said:


> Wow. What are the lease payments on the M?


I'm going to finance this car. Right now I got a check from Capital One with the following terms: Loan Amount $85,000, 72 months financing, APR 6.69%, monthly payment $1,436.55 (with about $18K down).

Adrian is still looking for a lower APR and maybe a 100%-financing - let's see what options I have...


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## pcmike (Jan 4, 2003)

26 years old? Still 36K/yr income to your name? What's your FICO score now (I'm just assuming this M is going to be in your name, sorry if thats not true)?


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

pcmike said:


> 26 years old? Still 36K/yr income to your name? What's your FICO score now (I'm just assuming this M is going to be in your name, sorry if thats not true)?


Yes, 26 years old. No, 150K/yr now. Fico on Transunion was at 780 a few weeks ago. Yes, M5 is going to be in my name (btw. the 760Li was leased in my name as well with my mother as co-signer with BMW Financing).


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## schley (May 26, 2005)

760Lifan said:


> Yes, 26 years old. No, 150K/yr now. Fico on Transunion was at 780 a few weeks ago. Yes, M5 is going to be in my name (btw. the 760Li was leased in my name as well with my mother as co-signer with BMW Financing).


You know that everyone on here thinks you are half full of BS and the other half with arrogance. Your story in this thread was like a yo yo watching go up and down, poor then rich, buy then lease, x5 to M5!

I will tune in next week same time and channel)


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

*Guess again!*



schley said:


> You know that everyone on here thinks you are half full of BS and the other half with arrogance. Your story in this thread was like a yo yo watching go up and down, poor then rich, buy then lease, x5 to M5!
> 
> I will tune in next week same time and channel)


Oh really?? So what do you think is this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128387

Maybe you should do a search on this board before YOU post such BS!:tsk:


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

I can only imagine how cool it would be to be dropped off at middle school in a black BMW V-12! :thumbup:


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

760Lifan said:


> Oh really?? So what do you think is this:
> 
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128387
> 
> Maybe you should do a search on this board before YOU post such BS!:tsk:


What dealer did you buy from? Reeves?


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

LmtdSlip said:


> What dealer did you buy from? Reeves?


I bought it from Southpointe BMW, Sarasota,FL.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

LMC said:


> I can only imagine how cool it would be to be dropped off at middle school in a black BMW V-12! :thumbup:


Driving this car is even more fun, believe me..:rofl: 
BTW, why especially at middle-school...:dunno:


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## duc_748 (Jan 14, 2006)

This thread was a funny read. I might offend some here, but the only place one should be seen driving the 760Li is to the U.N., that thing needs flags flying off the hood. Its such an old mans diplomat mobile!


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

duc_748 said:


> This thread was a funny read. I might offend some here, but the only place one should be seen driving the 760Li is to the U.N., that thing needs flags flying off the hood. Its such an old mans diplomat mobile!


No, the guys at the U.N. do not deserve such a great ride...:rofl:


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

BahnBaum said:


> This has got to be a 16 year old who was at a dealership with mom looking at X3's or something, and he got his hands on a brochure. Earlier in the thread he says he's going to keep them 7 - 10 years, now he's leasing for 4. This whole freakin' thing is a joke.
> 
> Jon, ban him please, really, he's way worse than Clyde.
> 
> Alex


Yep, went to the dealership and had a look at the brochures before getting those cars. Man, 16 months can make a difference! First, everything is different and second, than you thought! I really enjoyed this thread!

Funny, since I posted my pics nobody's insulting me anymore...How come??:dunno: :rofl:


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

I'll back you up any day, 760Lifan! 

You're one classy guy! You're mom is a gem, too!

Thanks so much for your business and for being perhaps one of the nicest clients I've ever had in my life.:thumbup: It was such a pleasure meeting you. I'm glad to count you as a friend.:thumbup: 

This thread cracked me up, too. It's funny how people still judge a book by it's cover these days.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

adrian's bmw said:


> I'll back you up any day, 760Lifan!
> You're one classy guy! You're mom is a gem, too!
> It was such a pleasure meeting you. I'm glad to count you as a friend.:thumbup:


I can honestly say the same about you! You did such an awesome job! Thanks again, Adrian! (and regards from my mum.. ):thumbup:


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## AB (Jan 11, 2002)

adrian's bmw said:


> This thread cracked me up, too. It's funny how people still judge a book by it's cover these days.


Adrian, why aren't you returning your PM's ?


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## Vitacura (Jul 22, 2005)

Ha! I guess they shut up! That's an awesome car collection 760Lifan! Someday you will have to take me out on a spin in the M5! I have never been in one except at the auto show.


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

MrAirbags said:


> Adrian, why aren't you returning your PM's ?


Sorry.


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## schley (May 26, 2005)

760Lifan said:


> Yep, went to the dealership and had a look at the brochures before getting those cars. Man, 16 months can make a difference! First, everything is different and second, than you thought! I really enjoyed this thread!
> 
> Funny, since I posted my pics nobody's insulting me anymore...How come??:dunno: :rofl:


Dude I stand corrected. You got the automobiles you wanted and claimed you were getting. How good of financial sense that makes is another story, but you indeed did back up your claims and I apoligize and stand corrected.

The reason I and others were so skeptical is because it makes such bad financial sense to purchase the 3 most expensive vehicles in their respective classes. What did it cost you 300 G's? I'm sure you will be getting xmas cards from Adrian well past your death and he will leave flowers on your grave, JK.

I certainly wish I could afford 1 of the 3 cars your family has. But I might be able to afford 1 now since they all lost 20-25% of their value in the first several months save the M5 perhaps.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

schley said:


> Dude I stand corrected. You got the automobiles you wanted and claimed you were getting. How good of financial sense that makes is another story, but you indeed did back up your claims and I apoligize and stand corrected.
> 
> The reason I and others were so skeptical is because it makes such bad financial sense to purchase the 3 most expensive vehicles in their respective classes. What did it cost you 300 G's? I'm sure you will be getting xmas cards from Adrian well past your death and he will leave flowers on your grave, JK.
> 
> I certainly wish I could afford 1 of the 3 cars your family has. But I might be able to afford 1 now since they all lost 20-25% of their value in the first several months save the M5 perhaps.


Apology accepted! You're the first (and I guess the last) who apologized so far. Respect!!:thumbup: I have to admit that my initial post was somewhat misleading. Cars should never be considered a good investment - especially not the 760Li. But if you got the choice between spending money for such a car or sending it to the IRS, we decided to go with the V12. The "loss of value" on the other two cars is average. BTW, we didn't roll any negative equity into the new cars. That was a bad idea. We leased the 760Li for 48 months and financed the other two for 72 month (financed $85K on the M5 and $70K on the X5). So we're not much "upside-down" on the financed cars (especially not on the M5) and are using the 760Li for tax-deduction.

But you're probably right: You def. have to be a BMW-fanatic to spend that much money on those cars, but "BMW-fanatic" is what describes me best...:drive:

Let's wait 'til Christmas - maybe you're right about the xmas-cards...:rofl:

Meanwhile, I'll do my best to help anybody on this forum who has any questions about one of the cars we have. This board was (and is) a great opportunity to assist other members. I was helped, now it's payback-time...


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

> Meanwhile, I'll do my best to help anybody on this forum who has any questions about one of the cars we have.


Are you in Atlanta now? I work about 2 miles from Nalley BMW. I keep seeing a black M5 in the parking lots here.

Look at where we are 18 months later. You got a new M5. I got rust:


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Are you in Atlanta now? I work about 2 miles from Nalley BMW. I keep seeing a black M5 in the parking lots here.
> 
> Look at where we are 18 months later. You got a new M5. I got rust


No, I'm in the Tampa-area. That's a great ride as well - if there is a car out there with a "soul", that's it...:bigpimp:


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

760Lifan said:


> No, I'm in the Tampa-area. That's a great ride as well - if there is a car out there with a "soul", that's it...:bigpimp:


I wonder how many M5's are allocated to the Atlanta area. I can account for 3 of them: Yours, the black one parked at work and an Indy Red one at a dealer.
How do you like the HUD on the M5? A good thing or is it something so annoying that you just turn it off?
Does your mom's 760Li have an iDrive controller in the rear? I saw the photos in the other thread.

*Warning -- Thread Jack*
My London Coach is very pimpable. I'm not sure how far I'll go. I'm not one for bling. It had a rear entertainment center. I'm going to put a computer up front.










Once I get it done, we should race. My car has a 2.3L Ford OHC with a 1 bbl carb. 4 wheel drum brakes. I think it can go 0-60. maybe.


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## 760Lifan (Oct 6, 2004)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> How do you like the HUD on the M5? A good thing or is it something so annoying that you just turn it off?
> Does your mom's 760Li have an iDrive controller in the rear? I saw the photos in the other thread.


I love the HUD. It is a great reminder to stay at least close to the speed-limit. It's also very helpful when you're using the Navi-System (displays distances, arrows etc.), so I can only recommend HUD.

My Mum's car has the Rear Entertainment system. You can see all pics when you click on "My Garage"...:thumbup:


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## Motown328 (Jun 4, 2003)

adrian's bmw said:


> I'll back you up any day, 760Lifan!
> 
> You're one classy guy! You're mom is a gem, too!
> 
> ...


Man, what a payday windfall!!!:str8pimpi

Days like that at work must have you dancing around the showroom!!!:thumbup:


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