# tire rotation ?



## demosa (Aug 13, 2004)

The owner's manual doesn't say anything about rotating the tires
on my 2004 325xi with sport package (17" wheels)
Any recommendations ?
Thanks !


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

Assuming you have the same size on all 4 wheels,keep the tires on the same side of the car (front to rear/vice versa *only*). 

Regards,
Bob


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

demosa said:


> The owner's manual doesn't say anything about rotating the tires
> on my 2004 325xi with sport package (17" wheels)
> Any recommendations ?
> Thanks !


 I always rotated my tires every 5,000 miles so that all tires would wear out evenly and I could replace all tires at the same time. Unfortunately I will not be able to do that with my ZHP.


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## slilley (Feb 12, 2003)

*Yes, by all means, rotate them!*

If you have equal-size wheels AND tires front-to-rear, then I'd recommend rotating them if you want them to wear at the same rate. I normally try to rotate the tires every 5-10K miles. I use the rearward cross pattern: see figure C on http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/rotate.jsp
(rears move straight forward, fronts move back and across to the opposite site)

Little known secret: Even directional tires can be run in the opposite direction with little effect...maybe just a little extra noise, and a little less hydroplane resistance in deep water. This was confirmed by a Grassroots Motorsports Magazine directional test last year (I've been doing it for 4 years).

I'm sure I'm one of the few ZHP owners who can rotate...I dumped the stock rims as soon as I got home from the dealer, and went with S03s on 17x8 wheels all around. This allows me to rotate at will, and the equal-size rubber dials out some of the understeer.

Regards,
Steve


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## oldefarms (Jul 30, 2004)

demosa said:


> The owner's manual doesn't say anything about rotating the tires
> on my 2004 325xi with sport package (17" wheels)
> Any recommendations ?
> Thanks !


I HAVE THE SAME CAR AS YOU ( except mine is 2003).

Tire Rack thinks you should rotate tires ( including the full size spare as part of the rotation).
My BMW dealer said that BMW does not endorse rotating tires.
I have no idea who is correct..
Mybe a tire guru will post the correct answer


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

BMW doesn't recommend tire rotation. 

Are you noticing uneven wear on your xi?


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

oldefarms said:


> I HAVE THE SAME CAR AS YOU ( except mine is 2003).
> 
> Tire Rack thinks you should rotate tires ( including the full size spare as part of the rotation).
> My BMW dealer said that BMW does not endorse rotating tires.
> ...


One of my sister-in-law`s ex-husbands was a crew mech for Penske Racing....at the time, their belief was that the belts in radial tires "take a set" from running in one direction, and switching rotation could lead to premature tire failure. Anyone else share this theory?

Regards,
Bob


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## slilley (Feb 12, 2003)

Here's the reason that BMW stopped recommending tire rotation:

Back in the day when it was still recommended by BMW, they'd find customers would complain when a slightly out-of-balance rear wheel (not really noticeable to the customer) would be moved to the front, because now the customer would complain of a vibration in the steering (out-of-balance wheels/tires are much easy to detect on the front than the rear, because you're hands are directly linked to those tires via the steering wheel). Tire rotation didn't include a re-balance. So there's two ways to fix this problem: (1) continue to do tire rotations, while also insisting on balancing at the same time (more $$s), or (2) leave well enough alone, and don't do any rotation. They went with option (2). I've also heard that from the factory, BMW normally installed the better-balanced wheels on the front of the car, so the rears are more likely to result in a vibration if moved to the front.

So BMW generally has less complaints if they just leave the tires as-is, and they honestly don't care if you have to replace tires at 30K instead of 40K miles.

It's also not an option on any models with different sized wheels/rubber front-to-rear.

If you can rotate them yourself, there's really no downsides. If you have vibration afterwards, either rebalance the front tires, or put everything back the way it was before.

Regards,
Steve


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## Darter79 (Aug 14, 2004)

*Good Info*

Should have read this thread before getting a tire rotation. I got a rotation a month ago, and have felt more vibration. Didn't think it was the tire's problem till I read the post.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

Darter79 said:


> Should have read this thread before getting a tire rotation. I got a rotation a month ago, and have felt more vibration. Didn't think it was the tire's problem till I read the post.


 As tire wear out they will go out of balance. Tire should be rebalanced before rotating them.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

slilley said:


> So BMW generally has less complaints if they just leave the tires as-is, and they honestly don't care if you have to replace tires at 30K instead of 40K miles.


 I had always rotated my tires so I when I bought my 318ti I tried to follow BMW's recommendation. When I looked at my tires at 8,000 miles and saw that the rear tires were 50% gone and the front ones appeared to be virtually new i was shocked. :yikes:

When I checked on the prices for Dunlops SP2000 Z rated in the 16" size for my car and found out they went for over $220 each I decided it was time to rotate. By rotating I would wear all tires evenly and could replace all 4 at the same time with better performing/cheaper tires. If did not do that then I would have to buy same brand/model as replacements for the rear tires. Even with rotation all 4 tires had to be replaced at 21,000 miles.


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## marcio (Apr 29, 2004)

LDV330i said:


> I had always rotated my tires so I when I bought my 318ti I tried to follow BMW's recommendation. When I looked at my tires at 8,000 miles and saw that the rear tires were 50% gone and the front ones appeared to be virtually new i was shocked. :yikes:


I read about that often, but that has not been my experience. I'm still on my first set of tires with my E46, but went through 3 sets of tires with previous E36 following BMW's recommendation of never rotating tires. Wear rates of rear were never noticeably worse than front, so all 4 tires were always replaced at the same time. :dunno:


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

If you skip the rotating you may get by with only replacing the rears. The pulling and vibration will stay at a minimum, tires wear differently on each corner of the car.


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## DN328 (Aug 11, 2004)

demosa said:


> The owner's manual doesn't say anything about rotating the tires
> on my 2004 325xi with sport package (17" wheels)
> Any recommendations ?
> Thanks !


Are you sure that it isn't stated in the manual? I know that it is specified in my '99 manual - perhaps it has changed due to year/model (unlikely, though).

I've had my ride for about 5.5 years, and I've never rotated my wheels/tires. This was something that I paid particular attention to, and notice that front and rear tires wear evenly, for the most part. I think because of this, rotating doesn't seem to extend the overall life of the four tires by much. On my first set of tires (OEM), by the time I needed to replace the rears, the fronts needed to be replaced as well.

I'm not certain, but I had heard this is partly attributed to the 50/50 weight distribution(?).


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

DN328 said:


> I'm not certain, but I had heard this is partly attributed to the 50/50 weight distribution(?).


With my 318ti I am not sure I had 50-50 weight distribution. No trunk and the battery in the engine compartment did not help. I also believe the car was overtired (225/50-16) as I could get the ASC to come on in second gear with only the smallest amount of moisture on the road (with 1.9 liter engine). Some of this probably led to the premature wear of the rear tires at 8,000 miles that I saw. The tires had a treadwear rating of 180 so I knew I could not even expect 25,000 miles out of those tires


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

demosa said:


> The owner's manual doesn't say anything about rotating the tires
> on my 2004 325xi with sport package (17" wheels)
> Any recommendations ?
> Thanks !


My tires rotate every time I drive the car! :rofl:


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

oldefarms said:


> I HAVE THE SAME CAR AS YOU ( except mine is 2003).
> 
> Tire Rack thinks you should rotate tires ( including the full size spare as part of the rotation).
> My BMW dealer said that BMW does not endorse rotating tires.
> ...


PART of why Tire Rack recommends rotation is to get you back in the store.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

DN328 said:


> Are you sure that it isn't stated in the manual? I know that it is specified in my '99 manual - perhaps it has changed due to year/model (unlikely, though).
> 
> I've had my ride for about 5.5 years, and I've never rotated my wheels/tires. This was something that I paid particular attention to, and notice that front and rear tires wear evenly, for the most part. I think because of this, rotating doesn't seem to extend the overall life of the four tires by much. On my first set of tires (OEM), by the time I needed to replace the rears, the fronts needed to be replaced as well.
> 
> I'm not certain, but I had heard this is partly attributed to the 50/50 weight distribution(?).


Ditto...

My manual says specifically NOT to rotate.

I have a 99 as well, and the tires wear very evenly. I average 30K per set of 4.


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## hmr (Jul 28, 2002)

Could the alignment spec of the front and rear have anything to do with BMW's recommendation? The rear has more negative camber than the front wheels, and maybe rotating tires between the the different alignment configs leads to faster/undesirable tire wear? :dunno:


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## terry325xiwagon (Apr 11, 2004)

*Tire rotation*

Since the car has an almost even weight distribution, is rotating really necessary?


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Desertnate said:


> Ditto...
> 
> My manual says specifically NOT to rotate.
> 
> I have a 99 as well, and the tires wear very evenly. I average 30K per set of 4.


Our 2000 528iT manual said not to rotate and the dealer reiterated that but couldn't give me a good reason why...


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

kurichan said:


> Our 2000 528iT manual said not to rotate and the dealer reiterated that but couldn't give me a good reason why...


I have always judged my need to rotate based on visual inspection of the tires. When I had a FWD car, I would rotate religiously in order to save the tires. In my 4x4 SUV's, it is the same thing except its the rears. In my BMW the front and rear wear VERY close to each other, so taking that data along with the recomendations from the manufacturer I don't mess with it. :dunno:


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## BoyScout (Mar 20, 2004)

Fast Bob said:


> One of my sister-in-law`s ex-husbands was a crew mech for Penske Racing....at the time, their belief was that the belts in radial tires "take a set" from running in one direction, and switching rotation could lead to premature tire failure. Anyone else share this theory?
> 
> Regards,
> Bob


This is the same thing that I have been told. Right now I have a staggered setup, so tire rotation is not an issue. But as far as I know, this theory still holds.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

Fast Bob said:


> One of my sister-in-law`s ex-husbands was a crew mech for Penske Racing....at the time, their belief was that the belts in radial tires "take a set" from running in one direction, and switching rotation could lead to premature tire failure. Anyone else share this theory?
> 
> Regards,
> Bob


I would think this same theory would explain why folks often complain of vibration and balance problems after rotating. If the tire has "taken a set" on a position, moving it would make it roll funny in addition to the structual problems mentioned.

Asymetrical tred patterns don't allow for rotation either do they?


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## rwg (May 10, 2002)

Wow. This is a really long thread for a simple question. Your owners manual does, in fact, tell you what to do about tire rotation. It says not to rotate them. If it's not in the owner's manual, it will be in the service manual or something, but I bet it's in the owner's manual.

There are a lot of reasons NOT to rotate tires. I can tell you from experience that high performance tires wear noticeably differently on each corner and that you will affect the performance and handling if you do rotate them. I don't know if the differences are as apparent with harder rubber.

Tirerack recommends rotating, but the only reason is to get all available life out of the tires. If that is your primary concern, start by replacing the high performance tires with all seasons and you will get them to last for 50k miles.

Why is it that everyone always thinks the "way they have always done it" is right, even when the engineers that designed the car say differently?


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