# Will someone talk me out of a 2009 Audi A4 Avant



## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

Hi guys. I have a 335i I bought a few months back. My wife is drivnig a reliable 1998 Accord LX, and we have a 95 Cherokee for skiing, biking, home depot, etc.

I was looking at informedforlife and their safety ratings. The advances in the past few years are just steller, and the Audi A4 is at the top of the heap. They're offering $2500 cash back, and I can get $4500 for clunkering the Jeep, and probably $3k for the Honda. That's $10k reduction before I even start to negotiate.

It'd have to have some utility to replace the Jeep, so we're looking at wagon only, and safety is our primary motivation for upgrading. The 3-wagon trails, and the X3 trails WAY behind.

Reviews of this car are awesome, and newer Audi's are the best looking cars out there, inside and out, bar none.

My biggest apprehension is the reliability of Audi from the mid 90's to mid 2000's. Terrible problems. Consumer reports shows them all black until a couple of years ago, and then all of a sudden the ratings are quite good. So either...
1) They're perfectly reliable for the first few years, then fall apart or
2) Audi finally has it's act together

I'm also considering a new Outback, which would be ~7 or 8 k cheaper, but the safety ratings aren't out for them yet and it's clearly not nearly as intersting of a car (and the wife is jealous of the bimmer . If I wait too long, the clunker money would be used up.

Soo...what say you on the reliability of late-model Audis.


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## MarcA78 (Oct 28, 2008)

People who buy Audis are the same people who use mid-grade fuel.


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## Solidjake (May 10, 2007)

E39 wagon or E46 wagon


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## Solidjake (May 10, 2007)

or this...


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## Justin T (Oct 10, 2006)

I have a buddy back in OH with an A4 Avant S-Line that is chipped, lowered, and has an exhaust. Awesome DD. You could do much worse for sure.


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## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

To "clunker" my Jeep it has to be new, and safety is my primary concern (will be my wife's car), so the E39 and E46 wagons are definitely out.

I'm going off of these safety numbers....

http://www.informedforlife.org/viewartcl.php?index=24


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## polarizer (Jan 7, 2008)

I wouldn't talk you out of it. The new A4 Avant is awesome!

I've owned a bunch of Audis over the last few 10 years. 5 to be exact. They are well built. They do have some quirks in the electronics. I have found that to be true with VW as well. Owned 4 VWs too. They are no less reliable than BMW. Their 1.8T engine had some problems but the others since then have been fine. It's really luck of the draw with cars. I have been very lucky. No serious problems with any of the 9 VW/Audis I've had. Just minor annoying stuff like windows that open 2 inches unexpectedly. It's a nuisance but it's not going to kill somebody. 

Stay away from the A3. It's a GTI with an Audi interior. My wife wanted to test drive one and the radio kept turning off. Fun car but it's no A4.

A4s keep getting better and better. The only thing to me that sucks is that the pricing is getting up there too. The Avant with any kind of equipment is going to be above $40K. Good luck and buy with confidence. It's a good car!


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## 6 Brit (Jan 19, 2009)

meh...vw


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## TofuTurkey (Mar 15, 2009)

carve said:


> Soo...what say you on the reliability of late-model Audis.


I was looking at an A3 sometime back. I focused on the CPOs, in particular the executive demos, which meant I had +1 year of warranty. My other plan was to lease it for a while, and if it seems ok, buy it at the end of the lease. My take is that there can be good cars of brands not reputed to be of high quality, and vice versa.

Edit: I thinking having a good service adviser is also important. If the car develops problems and the SA doesn't know his stuff, it's going to be a nightmare.



Solidjake said:


>


I can just imagine the M5 driver going around the track thinking, "Boy, I'm beating everyone here. Look how I'm accelerating out of the corners! Oh oops, look at the time. Better get home with the couch at the back of the car before my wife wonders why I'm taking so long."


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

Outbacks suck. A4s are okay.

You can get talked out of it because you can get one used for half price.


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

those safety ratings are bizarre, and contrary to others I have found.

How can the 3 series sedan be great, and the 3 series wagon be "medium risk"?

I think you are placing way too much emphasis on safety.

I have a family, two young 1 year old boys, and I wouldn't hesitate to put them in a BMW 3 series wagon, just the same as an Audi A4 wagon.

Both cars have extremely rigid body structures and great safety features.


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## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

If you test-drove it, liked how it drove, and think the utility is what you're looking for, _and_ if you're willing to take a potential risk on reliability (true, they have been trending upwards,) then go ahead and get the thing.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

We own an Audi. Dealers are awful, won't fix anything under warranty and the interior seems to be falling apart. Audi says it's normal wear and tear. It's normal in a relatively mild climate like San Diego for the buttons to blister and peel? For door trim to break off? Handles to break? What?!

Sadly, our 3 years with an Audi are turning out just like our ownership experience with other VWs: good at first but no dealer support.

Personally, if a big wagon was on my list I'd go Subaru Forester 2.5XT. Tons of room, bullet-proof, nice AWD, great power. About the only knock on it is the lame automatic tranny.


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## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

pilotman said:


> those safety ratings are bizarre, and contrary to others I have found.
> 
> How can the 3 series sedan be great, and the 3 series wagon be "medium risk"?
> 
> ...


Good question- I was wondering that myself. I thought it was rollover risk, but it turns out it rated lower in front and side impact, which makes no sense at all. I emailed them and asked for clarification.

If you look at actual insurance medical payments in the real world, the A4 is still near the top of the charts according to IIHS data...and that's the older 05-07 data, so the new one is probably top of the list. It got a 63, compared to 87 for the current e90 bmw.

The best scoring vehicle in any catagory was the Volve XC-90 at 46 for medical payouts, but I think that says as much about the kind of person who'd buy an XC-90 as it does abou tthe car itself. A sporty car with low medical payout is a good sign.

http://www.iihs.org/research/hldi/composite_cls.aspx?y=2004-2006&cls=3


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

trust me, I really do like the A4 Avant, it is a very nice car...

But I question long term reliability..I would definitely lease one, not sure about buying.

It just seems like a poor value, at about $47k for a smallish wagon...:yikes:

our local dealer is just so-so, I get much better service at the local BMW shop.

Are you also considering the benzo wagon?


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## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

blueguy: I'm sorry to hear that. According to consumer reports, reliability has been good the past couple of years, and terrible before that. It could be they've always lasted a few years and then fallen apart, or it could be they're actually better now.

As for dealer support...that probably depends on the dealer, wouldn't it?

I test drove a Forrester turbo a while back. You can only get the turbo with the 4 speed slush box now. Performance was adequate...better than the Outback, but the car, with 12 miles on it, already had a lot of squeaks and rattles....at least as far as I could tell over the road noise. It just wasn't a very nice car. I liked the old XT much better, even though it was small and ugly.

Pilotman: I'm only considering a bare-bones Avant, which are a decent value...low 30's. You'd have to check every box to hit $47k.

I like the E-wagon, but safety ratings are no better than a RAV4, and they're expensive.


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## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

pilotman said:


> those safety ratings are bizarre, and contrary to others I have found.
> 
> How can the 3 series sedan be great, and the 3 series wagon be "medium risk"?


OK...I emailed the guy who runs the site and compiles the data. He says if a particular configuration hasn't been crash tested, the software just puts in "average" numbers for cars in that category. Very misleading, but now I know it's safe to assume that wagons should get about the same score as the sedan. Here's what he said...



> Hi
> 
> The problem you perceive is due to the requirement by IIHS that ratings
> obtained by crash-testing a 4 door sedan do not apply to other
> ...


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

carve said:


> OK...I emailed the guy who runs the site and compiles the data. He says if a particular configuration hasn't been crash tested, the software just puts in "average" numbers for cars in that category. Very misleading, but now I know it's safe to assume that wagons should get about the same score as the sedan. Here's what he said...


That's a badly run group then. The correct answer should be "no data" and not just "average".


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## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

I agree. It makes no sense, and I've asked him why he doesn't either say "insufficient data" or use the sedan scores (at least for all but rear-end crashes)


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## BMW_GAL (Apr 7, 2009)

MarcA78 said:


> People who buy Audis are the same people who use mid-grade fuel.


Not completely true  I leased an A4 Quattro S-Line for 3 years and put premium gas in it, got great mileage after I chipped it!!


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

carve said:


> Pilotman: I'm only considering a bare-bones Avant, which are a decent value...low 30's. You'd have to check every box to hit $47k.
> 
> I like the E-wagon, but safety ratings are no better than a RAV4, and they're expensive.


My quote of $47 is really high, I guess, but selecting the "middle range" of premium plus with no metallic paint gets you to $40k no problem.

Premium model is $35k, and that doesn't even include heated seats.

I guess the biggest problem I have is the 4 cylinder motor.

We have a 2008 Passat Wagon and we love it, the motor is nice, but its no 6 cylinder.

I guess that's why I feel its a poor value.

we lease the Passat, its great for our family (two kids), with tons of room. I believe the Passat is much larger than the A4 interior wise, but we don't have quattro, only FWD.


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## f1fan (Jun 22, 2007)

There are plenty of '09 XC70 Volvo wagons out there. Fully loaded they run $36000 with the incentives. Plus, Volvo gives you 5yrs/60k warranty on the '09s, INCLUDING maintenance paid for!!!!!. I would have bought that but my wife didn't want a wagon. Check it out, and the safety rating is good too. Good Luck!!


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## carve (Nov 3, 2008)

cwsqbm said:


> That's a badly run group then. The correct answer should be "no data" and not just "average".


Here was his response...



informedforlife.org said:


> Your example actually demonstrates my point. IIHS states on their website that the ratinfgs for the Audi A4 apply to both the sedaa and wagon however they do not make this same statement for the BMW 3 series. Furthermore, IIHS requires organizations that they have granted database priviliges to (such as mine) to abide by their rules of not exptrapolating ratings beyond those configurations declared in their database.
> 
> You may actualy be correct, that sedan ratings for frontal and side impact my apply to wagons, however i cannot confirm this and nor can you. Suggestion: Send IIHS an email and see how they handle the question.
> 
> ...


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

We have had about 4 or 5 Audi's in my family and they were great cars. 
I had an 05 A6 4.2 for 2 years and it did not have a single problem.
The Allroad we had was for 4 1/2 years and had a minor issue here or there.

The 05 S4 Cab (purchased in the middle of 2004) to this day has never been to the dealer except for oil changes ...

I think they make great cars and the dealers here in Long Island have good service.

I would make sure to keep a warranty on the car while you own it but I would say this about a bmw as well.


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## goodman (Mar 8, 2007)

You want to be talked out of an A4 Avant? Easy. It's a Jetta with lipstick. Get her a Forester or a Mazda 3 5door.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

The wife drove Audi's for 20 years ( 4000,90,A4 ) nice cars what you would expect from a german car. We got tired of dealing with the service?? department. 

So now she drives a 335xi and loves it.

If you decide to go Audi stay away from the dealeship service department, either find a good independent mechanic or DIY.


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## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

f1fan said:


> There are plenty of '09 XC70 Volvo wagons out there. Fully loaded they run $36000 with the incentives. Plus, Volvo gives you 5yrs/60k warranty on the '09s, INCLUDING maintenance paid for!!!!!. I would have bought that but my wife didn't want a wagon. Check it out, and the safety rating is good too. Good Luck!!


It has been my observations, both from friends who've owned them, and from people who collect reliability data, that late-model Volvos are quite bad in terms of long-term reliability. I would prefer an Audi/VW over a Volvo.


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## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

I actually love the new A4 Avant with the S-line trim. Beautiful wagon. Although you should take a look at Passat wagons as well as Jetta SEL wagons with the 2.0T engine. My wife's next car will probably be a wagon, so I'm looking around as well. Volvo has some pretty awesome ones as well. I mean the first thing I think of when I hear Volvo is wagon. Take a look at the V50. It's pretty affordable.


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## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

I owned an Audi from 1986-1991 and it was pretty reliable. The unintended acceleration never happened to me.

My brother has a 3 yr old Audi with V8, I think it's called A6 4.2 and it has been 100% reliable. The interior of his car makes my Lexus GS350 look like what it is...a Toyota!

Best to go to an Audi website:
http://www.audiworld.com/news/09/2010mypricing/


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## energetik9 (Sep 9, 2008)

All I know is that mechanics I know have warned me to stay away from Audi and VW. These are guys that work on those cars and they tell me it is due to build quality and what it means for long term reliability. There advice to date has been spot on.


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## Jakked (Feb 6, 2009)

Well you'd better hurry if you want it. Clunkers program is ending tonight at 8PM.


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