# Mazdaspeed3 pricing - $22,800



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Nice, the base Mazdaspeed3 starts at 22,800. $24,500 puts you in the model with xenons, leather-lined seats.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3

Best parts - it weighs under 3k lbs, 280 ft-lbs, 250+ hp, great mazda handling.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> Nice, the base Mazdaspeed3 starts at 22,800. $24,500 puts you in the model with xenons, leather-lined seats.
> 
> http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMS3
> 
> Best parts - it weighs under 3k lbs, 280 ft-lbs, 250+ hp, great mazda handling.


That is a smokin' deal.

Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

JST said:


> That is a smokin' deal.
> 
> Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?


Quite hard to make a GTI a consideration at all. Admittedly, I'm Mazda biased.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

There are two styling items that really bother me about the 3. One is the shape of the C pillar. The other is the excessive rear bumper outhang. The rear really needs a lower profile bumper.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> Quite hard to make a GTI a consideration at all.


Maybe this will force VW to bring the R32 to the American market.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

JST said:


> That is a smokin' deal.
> 
> Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?


I don't know the GTI market price is but we bought our daughter's Jetta for below *invoice*


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Maybe this will force VW to bring the R32 to the American market.


The R32 is coming, but in 3 door, DSG-only form.

I still vastly prefer the VW styling, inside and out, but not enough to ignore the Mazda's significant advantages. Have to check one of these out.


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## abracc (Apr 15, 2006)

The regular Mazda 3 is already compared to the Audi A3. Imagine how this will fit in???


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Too bad its a 5 door. If I am going to buy a car that small I dont need rear doors.
I like the styling, still a bit to staid for my liking but I would drive it.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

JST said:


> That is a smokin' deal.
> 
> Makes it pretty hard to justify the 3400 lb, 200 hp, $27K GTI, eh?


The GTI starts at $22,620, not $27k. 

I think Mazda knew that when they priced the Mazdaspeed 3 at $22,800.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

PhilH said:


> The GTI starts at $22,620, not $27k.
> 
> I think Mazda knew that when they priced the Mazdaspeed 3 at $22,800.


I just checked VWs website. Yup $22,620 including destination charge. That puts it about $1000 under the Mazda.

The last two VWs we bought were at or under invoice. I'm not sure if I could get that big a discount on a GTI but I'm sure it will stay competitve with Mazda.

Which is the better car? HP isn't everything.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> I just checked VWs website. Yup $22,620 including destination charge. That puts it about $1000 under the Mazda.
> 
> The last two VWs we bought were at or under invoice. I'm not sure if I could get that big a discount on a GTI but I'm sure it will stay competitve with Mazda.
> 
> Which is the better car? HP isn't everything.


The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.

As for better - the Mazda3 2.3 already handles far better than VW's GTI. Mix in a tighter suspension and LSD and the Mazdaspeed3 will obliterate a GTI in terms of handling. Remember the Mazdaspeed weighs less than 3k lbs...unlike the portly and tall GTI. Speed-wise the Mazdaspeed3 will have 280-ft-lbs and that LSD will help get the power down correctly in the corners. FWIW, Mazda's manuals are lightyears beyond anything from VW (and BMW) too.

A very real consideration for me is the quality of engineering and build. The build quality of Mazda's Japanese cars, in my experience, is vastly superior cars to _any_ German automaker. No contest. My VWs and BMWs have always been headaches. Every Mazda i've owned or my family has owned runs like a top notch piece of engineering. It's subjective in the end. But I'd trust a Mazda to run and run well for years...not so with a BMW, VW, or MB.

Dollar for dollar the Mazda has it all over the GTI. Mix in the superior ergonomics, better handling (by far), better road feel, better engineering and longterm reliability...well the Mazdaspeed3 is the obvious choice for me.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.


Do you know a dealer within a days drive of Atlanta that will sell an MX-5 at or below invoice? I've started shopping and haven't gotten close. I know there is a cash incentive and hold back on the car so it should be possible. I'd like to find an honest, no-haggle sales advisor. "Any MX-5 on the lot at invoice +$xx. Lease at the buy rate +.000x"



> It's subjective in the end. But I'd trust a Mazda to run and run well for years...not so with a BMW, VW, or MB.


Single samples don't mean much. Debbie had a Mexican built Jetta that went 9 years and 165,000 miles with one problem. Everything worked the day we sold it. My 1990 e34 has been amazing. In the last six years I've spent $1200 on repairs. $900 of that was to replace the original shock absorbers. The car has never stranded me. Not bad for a 16 year old car with 240,000 miles on it. Its currently off road with a broken front shock mount. $300 and I could drive it again.

Current BMWs have average reliablity. I consider that a resonable trade off for the overall experience of driving a BMW.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Do you know a dealer within a days drive of Atlanta that will sell an MX-5 at or below invoice? I've started shopping and haven't gotten close. I know there is a cash incentive and hold back on the car so it should be possible. I'd like to find an honest, no-haggle sales advisor. "Any MX-5 on the lot at invoice +$xx. Lease at the buy rate +.000x"


California, sorry.



> Single samples don't mean much. Debbie had a Mexican built Jetta that went 9 years and 165,000 miles with one problem. Everything worked the day we sold it. My 1990 e34 has been amazing. In the last six years I've spent $1200 on repairs. $900 of that was to replace the original shock absorbers. The car has never stranded me. Not bad for a 16 year old car with 240,000 miles on it. Its currently off road with a broken front shock mount. $300 and I could drive it again.


nice anecdotes. I understand anecdotes are useless in the long run. I like to mix personal experience with hard metrics. The data shows the mazda protege and mx-5 were exceptionally reliable. I've happened to experience that too. Data shows BMW's are average for reliability (which translates to horrible - being in the bracket of average is akin to failure in my eyes) and VWs are far, far below average. My experience with my own bmws and friends and family tells me I know many unlucky people as I don't have any friends or family who have owned bmws that even come close to being considered average in reliability. VW data shows they're bad and I don't know a single person who would contest that.



> Current BMWs have average reliablity. I consider that a resonable trade off for the overall experience of driving a BMW.


I consider that a good reason to lease BMWs. Fun to drive, but poorly built and engineered. Wouldn't own one out of warranty. My e90 is less than 5 months old and already the CA doesn't work right and the AC has stopped working more than once already (not that it works all that well anyway).


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> California, sorry.
> 
> My experience with my own bmws and friends and family tells me I know many unlucky people as I don't have any friends or family who have owned bmws that even come close to being considered average in reliability.


After 26 months we've had two problems with our 325i. Both happened early on. The CD player failed. The passenger side mirror failed. No problems at all since then.

I don't know if our experience is typical, but we are satisfied with the car's reliability.

So far the NC MX-5 has 1 recall and 5 service bulletins. If you'd bought one early this year it would have gone in for repair two or three times.

No argument about VW other than to say we've been very very lucky with ours. 

Andrew


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.
> 
> As for better - the Mazda3 2.3 already handles far better than VW's GTI. Mix in a tighter suspension and LSD and the Mazdaspeed3 will obliterate a GTI in terms of handling. Remember the Mazdaspeed weighs less than 3k lbs...unlike the portly and tall GTI. Speed-wise the Mazdaspeed3 will have 280-ft-lbs and that LSD will help get the power down correctly in the corners. FWIW, Mazda's manuals are lightyears beyond anything from VW (and BMW) too.
> 
> ...


I think you are way overstating the Mazda3 - I've driven it a few times, and it's not that great. The shifter is meh. I prefered the GTI by a lot. The MPS3 is another story of course.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> I think you are way overstating the Mazda3 - I've driven it a few times, and it's not that great. The shifter is meh. I prefered the GTI by a lot. The MPS3 is another story of course.


I think the press overstates the GTI by more than a lot. I personally think they're paid off. Sort of like the CTS reviews. My experience with the GTI couldn't differ any more from what I read or saw in reviews. Jeremy Clarkson called it one of the best cars around. After driving one hard I couldn't see buying one if the MSRP were 10k, let alone 26k.

To each his own. The Mazda3 felt just right to me. The ride, the roadfeel, the lightness of the vehicle all translated to fun. More fun in the twisties than my e90 ZSP, that's for sure.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> I think the press overstates the GTI by more than a lot. I personally think they're paid off. Sort of like the CTS reviews. My experience with the GTI couldn't differ any more from what I read or saw in reviews. Jeremy Clarkson called it one of the best cars around. After driving one hard I couldn't see buying one if the MSRP were 10k, let alone 26k.
> 
> To each his own. The Mazda3 felt just right to me. The ride, the roadfeel, the lightness of the vehicle all translated to fun. More fun in the twisties than my e90 ZSP, that's for sure.


Well the US mainstream press is a joke, and you never know with Clarkson, but reputable magazines like EVO also love it. Of course that's the Euro version, not the US one jacked up to SUV height.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

blueguydotcom said:


> To each his own. The Mazda3 felt just right to me. The ride, the roadfeel, the lightness of the vehicle all translated to fun. More fun in the twisties than my e90 ZSP, that's for sure.


I owned a Mazda3 5-door hatch for two years (just sold it a couple months ago). It was a great car. It handled even better when the stock Goodyear RSA rubber got replaced with BF Goodrich g-Force tires. The only thing I didn't like about it was the weak A/C and the lack of torque, which obviously the turbo model will correct. The steering was perfect and the shifter cut through the gears like a hot knife through butter. Great little car. It also got 26-27mpg.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> The data shows the mazda protege and mx-5 were exceptionally reliable.


I'm not sure if that is the case for the 2006 NC Miata. I've been reading the forum at www.miata.net and a there are some problems.

This poor guy has one of the worst stories:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=187695

His car has been in the shop almost as much as out. At one point it ate the dipstick. He's been tryting to get Mazda to buy back the car and they are being very difficult about it.

His lawyer told him BMW NA was the best about buying back problem cars.

There also may be a problem with the airbag wiring where it goes under the seats. No recall yet but I'm seen seveal posts about it.

<sigh>


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> His lawyer told him BMW NA was the best about buying back problem cars.


Too damned good!  I had agreed on a killer deal for a CPO'd 2004 ZHP, then the dealer calls me back the next day and says BMW NA recalled the car cause the seller (after he'd already traded it) filed a buy-back request. Probably for something stupid like the stalling issue.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> I'm not sure if that is the case for the 2006 NC Miata. I've been reading the forum at www.miata.net and a there are some problems.
> 
> This poor guy has one of the worst stories:
> 
> ...


Even at its worst, I've never seen/read of a japanese-built Mazda having the QC issues of BMWs. :dunno:


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

blueguydotcom said:


> Even at its worst, I've never seen/read of a japanese-built Mazda having the QC issues of BMWs. :dunno:


My Mazda3 had two problems. The first was a defective fuel pump that needed replacement basically when the car was new (infant mortality?). The second was a defective set of brake pads that caused grooves to be cut into the rotors. Other than these two issues, the car was completely reliable in the two years and ~27000 miles I owned it. There was also a third issue related to the A/C system which wasn't really a problem; it was more of a TSB performed on the car to help it work better. The Mazda3's A/C is pretty weak.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

So is anyone actually going to buy one of these?

I might have if I'd been able to wait, but sometimes you can't wait, you just _have _to buy a new car.


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## BiggieJ (Oct 20, 2005)

i dunno. the mazdaspeed3 sounds good and for the price its a deal...but 280 lbs/ft with front wheel drive? :dunno: i know they have the thing wihch retards torque on lower gears or something of that effect but they should of went the all wheel drive route (like the mazdaspeed6) to undercut the market of evo and sti's. even for a few more g's...or maybe they should of made it a option at least.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

BiggieJ said:


> i dunno. the mazdaspeed3 sounds good and for the price its a deal...but 280 lbs/ft with front wheel drive? :dunno: i know they have the thing wihch retards torque on lower gears or something of that effect but they should of went the all wheel drive route (like the mazdaspeed6) to undercut the market of evo and sti's. even for a few more g's...or maybe they should of made it a option at least.


Nah, they made the right choice keeping it light. We don't need any more 3800 lb awd sports sedans.


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## BiggieJ (Oct 20, 2005)

Dawg90 said:


> Nah, they made the right choice keeping it light. We don't need any more 3800 lb awd sports sedans.


light is nice. but i can only imagine the crazy torque steer on that thing (and the inevitable understeer of the FWD design). thats a hefty price to save a few hundread more pounds. im just saying they should of at least offered it.

come to think of it i think the mazdaspeed3 might be the highest rated torque FWD car i can think of. the TL i think had 260 (maybe less with the revised SAE ratings) and theres a lot of torque steer with the 6mt...maybe mazda engineers have a few tricks up their sleeves?


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## Penforhire (Dec 17, 2005)

The Dodge SRT-4 comes close in stock trim. It was under-rated and a typical dyno result is 265 HP at the crank. IIRC, they also offer parts-kit upgrades that must push it past the 'Speed3's factory spec. Its suspension lets it down. I have a friend who campaigned one in SCCA Solo2 but abandoned it after a season, unable to get it to rotate as desired.

One of the brightest lights in front-wheel-drive handling was the Integra Type R. It'll be interesting to see how this 'Speed3 stacks up.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

BiggieJ said:


> light is nice. but i can only imagine the crazy torque steer on that thing (and the inevitable understeer of the FWD design). thats a hefty price to save a few hundread more pounds. im just saying they should of at least offered it.
> 
> come to think of it i think the mazdaspeed3 might be the highest rated torque FWD car i can think of. the TL i think had 260 (maybe less with the revised SAE ratings) and theres a lot of torque steer with the 6mt...maybe mazda engineers have a few tricks up their sleeves?


That's why God gave you a right foot, to control things like torque steer, oversteer etc. 

A British Touring Car weighs about 2500 lbs and has 275 hp to the front wheels.


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## gtx510 (Aug 7, 2006)

That touring car also has a decent LSD.

It the MS3 LSD is anything like the MSP one it's a pile of crap.
But a 6-spd on a MZr (Duratec) engine sounds like it might be using the Ford MT-75 tranny.


I wish Mazda would come out with another real AWD car so I'd have another tranny donor for my GTX.


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## 300B (Sep 28, 2005)

blueguydotcom said:


> The mazda you will certainly be able to buy at invoice (or very close). All mazdas - including the mazdaspeed6 - end up selling for near or less than invoice.
> 
> As for better - the Mazda3 2.3 already handles far better than VW's GTI. Mix in a tighter suspension and LSD and the Mazdaspeed3 will obliterate a GTI in terms of handling. Remember the Mazdaspeed weighs less than 3k lbs...unlike the portly and tall GTI. Speed-wise the Mazdaspeed3 will have 280-ft-lbs and that LSD will help get the power down correctly in the corners. FWIW, Mazda's manuals are lightyears beyond anything from VW (and BMW) too.
> 
> ...


Isn't the Mazda 3 turbo thats coming out just a FWD vehicle ?

Sounds like you really like Mazda's and kind of **** on BMW's,why in the hell did you buy an E90?

:angel:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

300B said:


> Isn't the Mazda 3 turbo thats coming out just a FWD vehicle ?
> 
> Sounds like you really like Mazda's and kind of **** on BMW's,why in the hell did you buy an E90?
> 
> :angel:


Two reasons.

1. Desperation. My e46 ZHP's lease was coming up and I couldn't find anything I liked as much. But my e46 had been so unreliable there was no way I could buy the off-lease car. And I tend to distrust used cars...especially used cars with BMW on them. Catch-22. Everything else isn't as much fun but that which I liked is unavailable.

2. A girl. I dated a girl through 2005 and she returned to Italy. She kept begging me to visit and finally someone convinced me to just go see her and get the car through ED. If she didn't work out, I'd have the car and memories anyway. As it turned out, I met an awesome girl in the USA a month before I left so I didn't even see Giorgia when I went to Europe in April. Got the car and got a better girl.

Love driving Mazdas save for the Mazdaspeed6 - FWD-bias AWD system (not a fan of AWD to begin with), heavy, vague steering/roadfeel, understeer, lousy gearing, crap clutch and horrid gas mileage. Mazda's what BMW was 25 years ago, imho: tight, small, good road manners, not the most power but definitely fun. The MX-5 is fun but at the time I didn't think I could live with a convertible two seater (NC's not as involving as the NB either). RX-8 = nothing but horror stories from my friends who own them (14 mpg, engine problems, brake problems, zero power, etc). If they gave the car some torque via a turbo I could probably live with it being unreliable - hell I've owned BMWS and VWs so I'm primed to dealing with poorly made cars.

At this point I'm waiting on the Mazdaspeed3 and Miata hardtop. Maybe they'll light my fire. Maybe they won't. Maybe I'll just go to a boring Civic Hybrid and 1200-1500 a year on gas. Not sure. I know if my e90 happened to go missing today in the parking garage I'd be bummed that I lost a pair of shoes in the trunk...beyond that, good riddance.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> Love driving Mazdas [...] Mazda's what BMW was 25 years ago, imho: tight, small, good road manners, not the most power but definitely fun.


I had a V6 Mazda MX-6 LS for years and it made me smile every time I drove it. That memory has given me a strong bias towards Mazda; specifically the MX-5. I have been holding off the MX-5 because of it being 2-seater and the Mazda3 wouldn't fill the fun factor as much.

Perhaps the MS3 will be just what the Dr. ordered :thumbup: (though I'm not crazy about buying a 5-door...seems one step closer to minivandom :eeps: ).

Thanks for the link Blueguy; I have always enjoyed your car reviews.


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## gtx510 (Aug 7, 2006)

1.8L V6, cute. Didya know the 2.5L drops right in?


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## Jspeed (Dec 23, 2001)

xspeedy said:


> There are two styling items that really bother me about the 3. One is the shape of the C pillar...


... and I thought I was the only one.


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## LoveTAH (Dec 25, 2005)

James said:


> I had a V6 Mazda MX-6 LS for years and it made me smile every time I drove it. That memory has given me a strong bias towards Mazda.


Same here. That was one of the best sounding V6's ever made, in my opinion. One of the few cars I'd drive with the stereo off just to hear it stretch. :thumbup:


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> At this point I'm waiting on the Mazdaspeed3 and Miata hardtop. Maybe they'll light my fire. Maybe they won't. Maybe I'll just go to a boring Civic Hybrid and 1200-1500 a year on gas. Not sure. I know if my e90 happened to go missing today in the parking garage I'd be bummed that I lost a pair of shoes in the trunk...beyond that, good riddance.


Someone over at Miata.net spotted a MX-5 hardtop on a car carrier. They will be here soon. Certainly by September.

We really like our MX-5. It could be an only car, but you might need a Flexcar or other back up. It wouldn't work for us as an only car as we are involved with giant breed dog rescue. We've gotten a 150lb Great Dane and a 90lb Great Pyrenees together in the back of the e46.

I've spent many days with a rental Civic Hybrid. If you get the Civic you will die of boredom. Its a good car, but its not a driver's car. I manage 40 to 50 MPG when I have it out. But everytime I got into it the computer said the previous driver had gotten about 21. If you drive the car with a lead foot, it doesn't go very fast and it uses just about as much fuel as an e46.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Someone over at Miata.net spotted a MX-5 hardtop on a car carrier. They will be here soon. Certainly by September.
> 
> We really like our MX-5. It could be an only car, but you might need a Flexcar or other back up. It wouldn't work for us as an only car as we are involved with giant breed dog rescue. We've gotten a 150lb Great Dane and a 90lb Great Pyrenees together in the back of the e46.
> 
> I've spent many days with a rental Civic Hybrid. If you get the Civic you will die of boredom. Its a good car, but its not a driver's car. I manage 40 to 50 MPG when I have it out. But everytime I got into it the computer said the previous driver had gotten about 21. If you drive the car with a lead foot, it doesn't go very fast and it uses just about as much fuel as an e46.


Was it an 06? My girl and I beat on that Civic hard and still got 40 mpg.


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## Shabba (Feb 26, 2005)

AK said:


> My Mazda3 had two problems. The first was a defective fuel pump that needed replacement basically when the car was new (infant mortality?). The second was a defective set of brake pads that caused grooves to be cut into the rotors. Other than these two issues, the car was completely reliable in the two years and ~27000 miles I owned it. There was also a third issue related to the A/C system which wasn't really a problem; it was more of a TSB performed on the car to help it work better. The Mazda3's A/C is pretty weak.


:stupid:

My sister has an '05 2.3...same issues! What an amazing car. I find myself asking to drive it sometimes instead of my e36. I could totally see myself buying one of these cars as my next ride (the e36 is about to be sold)...love it.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> Was it an 06? My girl and I beat on that Civic hard and still got 40 mpg.


Glad to see you are still alive. Debbie was concerned you went out and got the Civic Hybrid and were already comatose.

The '06 Civic Hybrid I use is pictured above. I reset the computer when I return it so I can see what kind of economy other's are getting. Always very low 20's. That's worse than our e46. :dunno:

I get 40-50, but I try to drive the car so it uses as little fuel as possible. If you've driven one, you know it belongs in the no-fun zone.

Andrew


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