# What not to use for brake dust!



## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

*What not to use on rims for cooked on brake dust!*

:thumbdwn:

I took someone's advice on this forum and used oven cleaner to get the cooked on brake dust from previous owner. Well, it worked...just maybe a little too well. It ate the clear coating off my rims  So my future advice to everyone who reads this, don't listen to that prick who said use oven cleaner.


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## Envious Eric (Dec 2, 2009)

lol...I would have told you not to!!!!

are you going to have them re-cleared? or maybe even powder coated?


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

cali311soca said:


> :thumbdwn:
> 
> I took someone's advice on this forum and used oven cleaner to get the cooked on brake dust from previous owner. Well, it worked...just maybe a little too well. It ate the clear coating off my rims  So my future advice to everyone who reads this, don't listen to that prick who said use oven cleaner.


I'm really sorry to hear that you this happened. I post on this forum a lot in the detailing section. I try my best to give good advice, based on hands on experience and years in detailing.

I maybe preaching here but, unless you've had hands on experience and can explain the process and UNDERSTAND the reaction of the chemical, for GOD'S don't make a suggestion

I know that there are plenty that have read about a solution but not actually done it..there is a huge difference.

How bad is the damage, can you post some pics and lets see if there is a fix for them


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## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

Here are some pics of the damage. I'm at work and all I have is an LED flashlight so I took the best pictures I could.


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## Ilovemycar (Feb 19, 2010)

Is oven cleaner ok for the tailpipes? 

Thanks.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

It looks like you've taken off the clear for sure, let me look up a national rim company and see if they have a place in your area, your going to need clear repair


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Ilovemycar said:


> Is oven cleaner ok for the tailpipes?
> 
> Thanks.


No household cleaners are for house use, not for cars. What are you trying to clean off?


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## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

For the love of all that is sweet and holy do not use oven cleaner I beg of you.


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## Envious Eric (Dec 2, 2009)

lol, Dboy I was about to say the same thing...

this is like using peanut oil on the trim...WHYYYYYY??? there are specific products made for certain applications and when you try to cut costs and use the wrong product, you end up paying more in the end


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## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

I tried so many different products and I was tired of nothing working. So, when I heard the suggestion oven cleaner, it made perfect sense. Looks like I'm the A$$hole.


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## Ilovemycar (Feb 19, 2010)

dboy11 said:


> No household cleaners are for house use, not for cars. What are you trying to clean off?


Black residue on the tips. Some people here like Barkeeper's Friend for this, I think.

I've been using a damp microfiber to clean off brake dust on the wheels. I was recently recommended using Rejex for the wheels, which helps with reducing the amount of dust, as well as making it easier to clean off.

I have so far found that it does reduce the amount of brake dust, not quite as much as I was hoping, but it's much easier to wipe off now. Also make sure to rub it all off after application, otherwise you will have a spot there that may take forever to get out. I believe it is aircraft polish.

edit: here is that thread
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435196


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Envious Eric said:


> lol, Dboy I was about to say the same thing...
> 
> this is like using peanut oil on the trim...WHYYYYYY??? there are specific products made for certain applications and when you try to cut costs and use the wrong product, you end up paying more in the end


Eric

You are spot on, there are plenty that want to cut corners in detailing like using peanut oil for plastic trim, WTF?

That said when it comes to cleaning cars, there are plenty of products that have been tested for the use on cars, much like those that are designed for household use, in MOST cases they do not cross over


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## BmW745On19's (Aug 12, 2005)

The peanut oil did a good job!


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## Envious Eric (Dec 2, 2009)

Ilovemycar said:


> Black residue on the tips. Some people here like Barkeeper's Friend for this, I think.
> 
> I've been using a damp microfiber to clean off brake dust on the wheels. I was recently recommended using Rejex for the wheels, which helps with reducing the amount of dust, as well as making it easier to clean off.
> 
> ...


steel wool #0000 and a metal polish will be your friend. Wash the tips like normal, then polish them with a MF and polish. If that doesnt work, get the steel wool and use light pressure with the metal polish. then polish again after the Steel wool with just a MF and enjoy!

for the wheels, make sure you clean them perfectly first, and then apply a coat or two of your favorite sealant wax. get some P21s or CG diablo wheel gel for the cleaning. Rewax every month. No wax will really last on the wheels due to the heat that is produced. whether its rejex, BFWD, jet seal, etc, you will see a diminished protection at the 2-3 week mark, and more so at the 4 week mark. (on a normal DD car that gets driven, not a weekend toy) So if you already have a sealant, save your money and use that on the wheels. Its not creating less brake dust, its just cutting down on what actually sticks to the wheel.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

BmW745On19's said:


> The peanut oil did a good job!


I'm sure it did

There is a good reason why car care product mfgers are not using it


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Envious Eric said:


> steel wool #0000 and a metal polish will be your friend. Wash the tips like normal, then polish them with a MF and polish. If that doesnt work, get the steel wool and use light pressure with the metal polish. then polish again after the Steel wool with just a MF and enjoy!
> 
> for the wheels, make sure you clean them perfectly first, and then apply a coat or two of your favorite sealant wax. get some P21s or CG diablo wheel gel for the cleaning. Rewax every month. No wax will really last on the wheels due to the heat that is produced. whether its rejex, BFWD, jet seal, etc, you will see a diminished protection at the 2-3 week mark, and more so at the 4 week mark. (on a normal DD car that gets driven, not a weekend toy) So if you already have a sealant, save your money and use that on the wheels. Its not creating less brake dust, its just cutting down on what actually sticks to the wheel.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Ilovemycar (Feb 19, 2010)

Envious Eric said:


> steel wool #0000 and a metal polish will be your friend. Wash the tips like normal, then polish them with a MF and polish. If that doesnt work, get the steel wool and use light pressure with the metal polish. then polish again after the Steel wool with just a MF and enjoy!
> 
> for the wheels, make sure you clean them perfectly first, and then apply a coat or two of your favorite sealant wax. get some P21s or CG diablo wheel gel for the cleaning. Rewax every month. No wax will really last on the wheels due to the heat that is produced. whether its rejex, BFWD, jet seal, etc, you will see a diminished protection at the 2-3 week mark, and more so at the 4 week mark. (on a normal DD car that gets driven, not a weekend toy) So if you already have a sealant, save your money and use that on the wheels. Its not creating less brake dust, its just cutting down on what actually sticks to the wheel.


Thanks Eric. I've got some super fine steel wool. What do you recommend for the polish?

Well, for the wheels, I already bought the Rejex, so . . . and it's not my DD either.

Thanks again.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Ilovemycar said:


> Thanks Eric. I've got some super fine steel wool. What do you recommend for the polish?
> 
> Well, for the wheels, I already bought the Rejex, so . . . and it's not my DD either.
> 
> Thanks again.


Any good metal polish will work or even a paint cleaner. Do not use any thing like a compound those have a grit and can harm the finish of some metals.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Here is a link to the alloy wheel repair place that has a national presents, I have a local guy here that does great work.

http://www.awrswheelrepair.com/


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## Got_Leather (Sep 14, 2009)

Who told you to use the oven cleaner?


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

Got_Leather said:


> Who told you to use the oven cleaner?


I don't think that person is going to admit to it now

I did a quick search on oven cleaner and there are a few threads where its suggested for various cleaning, wheels, removing pin striping,etc.

Some people are going to learn the hard way


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## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

Sucks to be the Guinea Pig, but hopefully this post can help someone in the future.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

cali311soca said:


> Sucks to be the Guinea Pig, but hopefully this post can help someone in the future.


Check that link that I posted for rim repair they might be able to help!


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## cali311soca (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks for the link. They are only about 45 mins away. I'll be sure to contact them and get a quote. Although, this might be the kick in the pants I needed to go buy a set of after market rims....:bling:


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## NoMercy346 (Jan 13, 2009)

wow, I read the same thread and used oven cleaner on my winter hubcaps and on the winter wheels of my old mans E60... after reading about your experience I'm sure I won't use it again. I already had some doubt when I read the instructions on the can that say you shouldn't use it on any painted surface. I didn't let the stuff soak in for too long, maybe that saved me. Then again the wheels on the E60 couldn't get any worse anyway. lol 

Is there a wheel cleaner that will take of the brown/gold stains of baked-on brakedust? (other than oven cleaner)


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

NoMercy346 said:


> wow, I read the same thread and used oven cleaner on my winter hubcaps and on the winter wheels of my old mans E60... after reading about your experience I'm sure I won't use it again. I already had some doubt when I read the instructions on the can that say you shouldn't use it on any painted surface. I didn't let the stuff soak in for too long, maybe that saved me. Then again the wheels on the E60 couldn't get any worse anyway. lol
> 
> Is there a wheel cleaner that will take of the brown/gold stains of baked-on brakedust? (other than oven cleaner)


There are plenty but the main reason that wheel cleaners do not work is they are being used wrong...when you clean a wheel with baked on dust, you have to spray the cleaner on a wet cool surface and let dwell for a few minutes, then with a good brush agitate the area to loosen up, rinse off and step on repeat as needed. In some cases it can take a little time to get off years of buildup but it will come off if you take your time

Here is a good one that Phil did a write up on

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439615


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## NoMercy346 (Jan 13, 2009)

dboy11 said:


> There are plenty but the main reason that wheel cleaners do not work is they are being used wrong...when you clean a wheel with baked on dust, you have to spray the cleaner on a wet cool surface and let dwell for a few minutes, then with a good brush agitate the area to loosen up, rinse off and step on repeat as needed. In some cases it can take a little time to get off years of buildup but it will come off if you take your time
> 
> Here is a good one that Phil did a write up on
> 
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=439615


yeah, tried the multiple application process and everything to no avail. In fact, I have never had a wheel cleaner where you did not need to use a brush or rag as well, be it the p21s or that sonax stuff. So after trying every method I could think of I gave the oven cleaner a try. Even then it only came off with some heavy scrubbing with a wet towel.

How often do you apply the product in severely browned cases? I gave up after 4 times.

Just for the record, I'd never let my own wheels become brown like that. lol. The hubcaps were ruined by the previous owner...


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## gmblack3 (Mar 14, 2008)

Meguiars wheel brightner (MWB) is "about" the strongest wheel cleaner that I have used. Only use it on clear coated wheels. IOW not on uncoated wheels as it will discolor them. 

Full strength on a dry/cool wheel it will remove just about any brake dust with just a high pressure hose down or pressure washer. 

I have had wheels with baked on dust specs (not cleaned in a year) that even agitation w/ a bug sponge and MWB would not remove the specs. What happens is the brake dust particles burn or etch into the clearcoat.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

NoMercy346 said:


> yeah, tried the multiple application process and everything to no avail. In fact, I have never had a wheel cleaner where you did not need to use a brush or rag as well, be it the p21s or that sonax stuff. So after trying every method I could think of I gave the oven cleaner a try. Even then it only came off with some heavy scrubbing with a wet towel.
> 
> How often do you apply the product in severely browned cases? I gave up after 4 times.
> 
> Just for the record, I'd never let my own wheels become brown like that. lol. The hubcaps were ruined by the previous owner...


If your working on rims that are that bad then a acid based cleaner is what you need. Its only something that you will find with detail suppliers, chemical guys would be one. I have some here and in extreme cases I will get it out, and ANYTHING that is in its way is coming off. A huge portion of the cleaning products on the market are very diluted, for liablity reason, that's why detail suppliers are good to buy from they have the industrial level products.

That said when I use the acid based cleaner you have to do it in a specific way so that you don't eat threw the finish.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

gmblack3 said:


> Meguiars wheel brightner (MWB) is "about" the strongest wheel cleaner that I have used. Only use it on clear coated wheels. IOW not on uncoated wheels as it will discolor them.
> 
> Full strength on a dry/cool wheel it will remove just about any brake dust with just a high pressure hose down or pressure washer.
> 
> I have had wheels with baked on dust specs (not cleaned in a year) that even agitation w/ a bug sponge and MWB would not remove the specs. What happens is the brake dust particles burn or etch into the clearcoat.


Read what I just wrote a acid based cleaner will lift the deposits out of etched rims but its NOT for the inexperienced, that's why the oven cleaners work so well they penetrate the surface.

Also as I said OTC cleaners are very mild for liability reason, if you start buying from a true detailer suppliers they are much stronger


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## NoMercy346 (Jan 13, 2009)

dboy11 said:


> If your working on rims that are that bad then a acid based cleaner is what you need. Its only something that you will find with detail suppliers, chemical guys would be one. I have some here and in extreme cases I will get it out, and ANYTHING that is in its way is coming off. A huge portion of the cleaning products on the market are very diluted, for liablity reason, that's why detail suppliers are good to buy from they have the industrial level products.
> 
> That said when I use the acid based cleaner you have to do it in a specific way so that you don't eat threw the finish.


appreciate your help...

I'll have to get some acid based stuff then. Maybe it will also take care of the black spots even the oven cleaner didn't take off. I remember a few years ago the acid cleaners were more widely available...


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

As a Chemical Engineer I would like to help detailers reach an intelligent and logical understanding of the many chemicals used in detailing. Improperly used chemicals can cause damage to the person using them and to surface they are applied to (sometimes irreparably) because the detailer was not educated regarding the chemical make-up of the products they used.

Conversely I also want to tell you that it's a waste of time to dedicate too much time and attention to them. All that is required is that you learn some basic chemistry i.e. what pH values mean, what chemicals will safely remove stains and what detailing chemicals to avoid or the precaution to take if you do choose to use them.

*Most importantly -* choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon, so I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you.

*FWIW- *Toilet bowl cleaning products are based on lye (pH 13.5 / 14) Don't use household products to clean vehicles, there are products that are specifically formulated for auto surfaces and components


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

TOGWT said:


> *Most importantly -* choose carefully whose advice you listen to, and more importantly what advice you act upon, so I would strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you.
> 
> *FWIW- *Toilet bowl cleaning products are based on lye (pH 13.5 / 14) Don't use household products to clean vehicles, there are products that are specifically formulated for auto surfaces and components


This is sounds and excellent advice.


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## jesimmons (Jan 11, 2008)

For getting the carbon black off the chrome tailpipe tips, I just use Klasse all-in-one on a paper towel. Takes a little elbow grease, but it does come off.


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## whazzup (Aug 18, 2009)

One of my tailpipes on my 2010 535xi has a lot of carbon. O tried some chrome polish today, but it really didn't get it all. I'm not sure if the finish is still there or if I rubbed it off. I'm anxious about using steel wool or any other real abrasive. What are my options? The car is basically new, and I may have rubbed the finish off the tips.


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## Mk23 (May 12, 2008)

jesimmons said:


> For getting the carbon black off the chrome tailpipe tips, I just use Klasse all-in-one on a paper towel. Takes a little elbow grease, but it does come off.


I have this: http://www.autogeek.net/p2mulfinres.html

Works great for polishing the exhaust. I had carbon that was baked onto my exhaust awhile back and after getting this and using it one time it looked brand new again, and with very little effort might I add. :thumbup:


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## sbrown712 (Oct 28, 2009)

Back in my motorcycle days I used a product called Semi-Chrome on my mufflers and all most all shiny parts of the bike. Worked very well and left no ill effects. If you see it read the instructions and see if it would work in this application.


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

cali311soca said:


> :thumbdwn:
> 
> I took someone's advice on this forum and used oven cleaner to get the cooked on brake dust from previous owner. Well, it worked...just maybe a little too well. It ate the clear coating off my rims  So my future advice to everyone who reads this, don't listen to that prick who said use oven cleaner.


Any strong acid (or alkaline) will clean, but a cleaner must be matched to the material (check the pH and the products MSDS before you use it).

A long established detailing forums has suggested using oven cleaner for paint and even gasoline for cleaning foam pads :dunno:

A sledgehammer will crack a walnut, but what's left of the walnut


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## TOGWT (May 26, 2004)

whazzup said:


> One of my tailpipes on my 2010 535xi has a lot of carbon. O tried some chrome polish today, but it really didn't get it all. I'm not sure if the finish is still there or if I rubbed it off. I'm anxious about using steel wool or any other real abrasive. What are my options? The car is basically new, and I may have rubbed the finish off the tips.


*Exhaust Tailpipe *

Two things that can ruin the freshly detailed look of a vehicle; dirty glass or exhaust tips; the exhaust tips can sometimes make or break the rear view of an otherwise pristine vehicle. Spray down the inside and outside of the tips with P21S® Total Auto Wash or P21S® Polishing Soap, allow to to remain in place, it will to start break down the grime. To clean the outside parts of the exhaust use either a Mini E-Z Detail brush (they are perfect for cleaning the areas between dual-tips) or an old micro fibre used strictly for dirty jobs and Optimum Metal Polish.

Use #0000 synthetic steel or bronze wool (very fine grade) with P21S® Total Auto Wash to clean out the insides of the exhaust tips. Polish using P21S® Polishing Soap (not intended for use on painted, clear coated or anodized surfaces) and/or Optimum Metal Polish and #0000 synthetic steel or bronze wool on the insides of the tips 
Now move on to the outside of the tips once again with Optimum Metal Polish and an older microfiber towel that is no longer used for the painted surfaces, ensure to polish with the grain.

_*Note:*
1.	The inside of some vehicles exhaust tips are painted with a matte black heat resistant paint, do not use wire or bronze as this will remove the paint. This type of finish can be renewed by cleaning them well, and spraying High Temp Flat Black (Matte) Satin Paint that is available from n auto store (Dupli Color)
2. Dinan tips are titanium with the all-blue tip clean with soap and water. No use in using a metal polish as there's nothing to shine_


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## HPIA4v2 (Mar 30, 2006)

Check these two products out:
http://www.detailingbliss.com/forum...s-tires/17212-review-sonax-vs-royal-brown.htm

But from the comments RB is rather serious chemical; make you cough like sniffing strong acid/base. But again I am not sure the long term affect to caliper, my most concern is coroding the piston seals of caliper over time, when using either one of these.
Anyone use Sonax for extended period of time?


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