# Road Atlanta Speed World Challenge Thread - SPOILERS



## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Hi All -

I haven't gotten a chance to get any press releases up yet. Anybody get a chance to see it?

I looked at the results - I'll have to send SCCA Pro Racing a congratulation letter for finally killing the BMWs and getting all their BMW fans to start watching Grand Am Cup :thumbdwn:


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## BMWRacerITS (Mar 17, 2004)

I've watched it. You might want to reserve judgement until you actually see the race and all of the practice/qualifying results as well. 

BMW's were 1,2,6 and 10 in the first practice...2,5,7,10, and 11 in the 2nd practice, 1,4,12, and 14 in qualifying...and 7,8, 12 in the race. The fastest two BMW's of the weekend (Jonsson and Stretch) both went out of the race with mech's, and James Clay was wrecked out as well while running strong...that's just bad luck for BMW that could have put two BMW's in the top 5 and 3 more in the top 15.

In qualifying the top 10 were BMW, Acura TSX, Mazda Protege, BMW, Acura TSX, Mazda 6, Mazda 6, Ford Focus, Audi A4, Acura RSX. 7 different cars in the Top 10 seems like things are pretty equal to me.

The BMW's are still paying for the dominating drives of Auberlen in the past. He was still able to win and compete with rewards weight, so the rest of the BMW's, while sporting good drivers, aren't necessarily up to the same task. SCCA will and has adjusted things to bring all of the cars together...the Mazda's have already recieved two restrictor changes and I think a weight increase.

To top it all off, Matt Richmond sits 4th in points while the arguably "strongest" BMW's of Auberlen, Stretch, and Jonsson either aren't running full seasons (Auberlen and Jonsson) and/or have experienced some bad luck early in the season (Jonsson and Stretch).


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

You're right, of course, and I'm sure it's infinitely more frustrating for the BMW teams than it is for us BMW fans - but a little lobbying to the SCCA can't hurt  

Nice assessment - glad somebody caught it - just can't get the same feel as actually seeing what's going on. I'll have to see if any of the usual sites have any pics.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

No one has any comment on Max Papis punt of Liddell to get the win? I thought it was absolutely terrible to take the leader off like that. The Cadillacs still make me angry to see them run as over modified as they are. Papis was fined $5k, 10 points and has a two race probation.


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## Chris330Ci (Jan 23, 2002)

SteveT said:


> No one has any comment on Max Papis punt of Liddell to get the win? I thought it was absolutely terrible to take the leader off like that. The Cadillacs still make me angry to see them run as over modified as they are. Papis was fined $5k, 10 points and has a two race probation.


I disagree. I don't think Papis did it on purpose. Did you watch the ALMS race? Liddell got nailed one corner later before the back straight trying to pull the same move. He's a great driver but it's one thing to take the defensive line and another to throw your car in the way of someone who's been inches off your bumper for several laps and coming with a full head of steam. I thought he should have stayed out wider and fought for/given up position. Just my opinion.

BTW, I may be a bit biased. I pull for Caddy in the GT class so...


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## Chris330Ci (Jan 23, 2002)

BMWRacerITS said:


> The fastest two BMW's of the weekend (Jonsson and Stretch) both went out of the race with mech's, and James Clay was wrecked out as well while running strong...that's just bad luck for BMW that could have put two BMW's in the top 5 and 3 more in the top 15.


James posted videos from the weekend on their site of the wreck. Check it out here. (Save target as)


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## BMWRacerITS (Mar 17, 2004)

This is my persepctive from having raced Road Atlanta a lot and having been in a very similiar situation in the same turn in the past:

Max and Liddell were racing close...Liddell tried to stay inside on the exit of the turn when we realized that Max had a run. While trying to stay inside, Liddell got a bit sideways (you can see it on Tivo)...he probably checked up which would explain why the hit was so much harder. It was a deperation move to stay in front when he knew he was about to be passed and it didn't work. Once Max saw the hole and committed to it, he couldn't check up fast enough...it's a very fast, banked corner and when you get off the gas you spin (see Liddell who was already loose when he was hit). It's a racing incident and Liddell didn't win.


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## BMWRacerITS (Mar 17, 2004)

SteveT said:


> The Cadillacs still make me angry to see them run as over modified as they are.


As long as SCCA has made the other cars competitive with them, what's the problem? I agree that they caught everyone by surprise last year, but the cars are nice and equal this year (Porsche, Viper, Caddy...still waiting for someone to get a new Vette better developed). Some of the best GT class racing in a long while.


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

*Martinelli Goes From 20th to 12th in SPEED World Challenge Touring Car*

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: April 16, 2005

CONTACT: Beth Wyse, 678.485.1947, [email protected]

Martinelli Goes From 20th to 12th in SPEED World Challenge Touring Car

at Road Atlanta

BRASELTON, Ga. - Battling fierce competition and a crowded track, Jason Martinelli worked his way from 20th to 12th during the 50-minute SPEED World Challenge Touring Car race at Road Atlanta on Saturday, driving the No. 29 Tecmark BMW 330Ci.

Martinelli had not raced at Road Atlanta for two years, but during the practice rounds he steadily increased his pace and re-familiarized himself with the challenging track.

The race was scheduled for Saturday afternoon, and Martinelli pulled into the 20th spot on the grid for a wild standing start. At the end of the first lap, he had already gained two positions. He was battling for 16th when the first of two caution periods began.

"I just found a couple of holes and went for it, and it worked," said Martinelli. "I just tried to hold my lines and to run a conservative race. It wasn't easy to do out there with all of the traffic."

When the track returned to green-flag racing for the final time, Martinelli was able to work his way up to 13th. He was racing closely with several other cars and got shuffled back to 15th as the race neared completion.

In the final minutes of the race, Martinelli moved his way back to 13th. He was up to 12th place when the checkered flag waved.

"It was a good day," reflected Martinelli. "I got hit from the rear when we all checked up for a car that spun in turn six, and I wish that had been avoided, but overall it was a good race. Moving up eight positions really showed how much potential we have, so I'm looking forward to the next round."

Martinelli is sponsored by Intermix Cement Corporation, JJ Snacks and Good Hill Mechanical Contractors, Inc.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I just went back with Tivo and looked at the incident again also. I don't see Liddell losing the car before Papis has contact. Liddell was the leader, he has every right to protect the line and should. It was the classic defensive driving. Papis has no business running into the back of him. Running wide to build speed to go inside is fine to enable the pass after the corner. Very ugly driving from Max Papis. Given enough time I'm sure Papis is going to get by, but in that last lap he might not have been able to. 

Most of the cars in SWC GT are reasonably true to their production counterparts. Cadillac is attempting to establish that they can run with the best performance sports sedans. Imagine, if you reduced the height of the M3 and moved the engine back a bit and put the driver in the back seat. Certainly would change the aerodynamic profile and the balance a bit. The Cadillacs are now over constrained to allow the others to competitive with them and they still went 1-2-3. The SCCA made a big mistake in listening to GM when the car was built and allowing them to make so many modifications. I don't see what the car proves by being in the series. Cadillac will want to hype the car's speed if they win, but they need to sandbag the season to come out on top in the end. It's an interesting car, so I understand how you might like it. I don't in this series.


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## gmgracing (Apr 22, 2005)

*Atlanta Gt*

The BMWs looked strong in Touring... Nic qualified 1st as you all know and had a knuckle failure after his contact with one of the Mazda's............I wish we were running the BMWs again this year... But after switching to the GT3 Cup and running GT we are very pleased with the new car. Its to bad that the M3 just isnt competitive in GT. ( well at least not competitive on a realistic budget.)
A 6th place overall in our first race, we are pleased with that none the less.........
Hope you guys make it out to some other races...

GMG
Global Motorsports Group 
Speed World Challenge GT Porsche GT3 Cup #14


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## BMWRacerITS (Mar 17, 2004)

SteveT said:


> Most of the cars in SWC GT are reasonably true to their production counterparts.


Methinks you need to take a look underneath some of these cars. In GT, SCCA's theory has always seem to be to allow you to build the car and bring it out to race, then they'll dumb you down if you are too fast. That's how the Reatime NSX ended up with a supercharger and why people have run supercharged M3's, Mustangs and other very "non-stock" type things in the past. In the end, their formula seems to work based on how many different cars run at/near the front in GT and Touring.



> Cadillac is attempting to establish that they can run with the best performance sports sedans.


And they do in Grand-Am Cup, which is a much more street-stock series.



> Imagine, if you reduced the height of the M3 and moved the engine back a bit and put the driver in the back seat.


Take a look inside some of the Touring cars...similiar tricks are being used.



> It's an interesting car, so I understand how you might like it. I don't in this series.


I have no particular opinion either way, but the Porsche and Vipers seem to be just as competitive, so I see no need to complain about the Caddy's. It would be a pretty boring series at this point if they weren't there.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

BMWRacerITS said:


> Methinks you need to take a look underneath some of these cars. In GT, SCCA's theory has always seem to be to allow you to build the car and bring it out to race, then they'll dumb you down if you are too fast. That's how the Reatime NSX ended up with a supercharger and why people have run supercharged M3's, Mustangs and other very "non-stock" type things in the past. In the end, their formula seems to work based on how many different cars run at/near the front in GT and Touring.


I've been to races and taken a close up look at the cars and I've been to PTG to see them built. I've heard a lot about the SCCA's approach. I think they are coming close to killing the series. I see superchargers something different. It's a boost for that car, not a complete modification like the CTS-V. So, some of the Touring cars have modified the base shape of the car and engine location?

The GAC CTS-V is good example of what the SWC GT car ought to be. I don't have problems with it there, it's much more relative to the production car not a "funny" car.

I think the SCCA is a bit too schizophrenic in this dumb down approach. Looks like the Vipers are getting the make over now.

I was disappointed to see James Sofronas in a Porsche, but glad to see it went well. Best of luck to GMG. I still don't understand (and no one has been able to explain) how the M3 fell so far last year after the weight was reduced and the engine size increased.


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## gmgracing (Apr 22, 2005)

We switched to a Porsche because the M3 was just uncompetitive.in GT.. ( Not on a realistic privateer's budget), The Porsche Gt3 Cup has been a great car so far. There is much more support from Porsche then there has been from BMW ... Although, I wish things were different, BMW Motorsport has little or no involvment nor do they care about small teams.( Correct me if I am wrong but that seems to be the case ). It would give me no greater pleasure to go out and run a M3 in GT. But the fact of the matter is there just isnt any support. Not to say that Porsche is the end to all .. But atleast we have access to key people @ Porsche Motorsport and they are less than 5 minutes from our shop. So, for now this makes sense............

We are still very loyal to the BMW brand.Its what we have raced for the last 9 years and we will continue to run a BMW whenever possible and it makes sense......... James continues to run a M3 in Grand Am Cup with Anchor Racing/GMG his team mate is John Munson in one car and Boris Said and Anders Hainer in the other silver M3.. *Look for them @ Laguna Seca.*

Fabryce Kutyba
GMG
Global Motorsports Group 
www.gmgracing.com


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Fabryce,

What would you like BMW to do, offer a turn key race car sort of like Porsche does or more sponsorship for the teams? Is the M3 expensive to race because of the level of preparation needed to fit it into the series? I know, for instance, that PTG starts from green Motorsport chassis. Does that make it expensive? Do you think that the ex-PTG cars would be competitive with a capable set of drivers other than Bill A., Boris and Hans?

The Anchor Racing guys have done well in GAC, hope it continues. Good luck with the Cup Car in SWC GT.

Steve Tenney


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## gmgracing (Apr 22, 2005)

SteveT said:


> Fabryce,
> 
> What would you like BMW to do, offer a turn key race car sort of like Porsche does or more sponsorship for the teams? Is the M3 expensive to race because of the level of preparation needed to fit it into the series? I know, for instance, that PTG starts from green Motorsport chassis. Does that make it expensive? Do you think that the ex-PTG cars would be competitive with a capable set of drivers other than Bill A., Boris and Hans?
> 
> ...


Steve:

I dont know if BMW is in a position to offer what Porsche does .. Ideally some sort of program that Porsche has would be best.. It just seems to me that Porsche seems to care more about privateer teams than BMW does. Im not hear trying to bash BMW in any manner, I love BMW and have been a fanatic from day ( I even drive one today 250k on my 95 M3  )

Even taken the approach that PTG takes with building a car from a motorsports chassis , ( which we have ) you are still fighting a uphill battle. PTG has shown that they have been very competitive with the M3's in GT a few years ago.. No doubt about it , Even though the SCCA regulated them in a manner that was unfair in some situations (Thats a discussion for a later time  )

What I am getting at is that it seems that, when you are dealing with Porsche Motorsport you are dealing with them directly...Not to say there arent any politics involved with that .. Where as when it comes to BMW there is no direct relation with the factory.. You deal with PTG because that is who represents BMW Motorsport in the USA.. 
Im not saying thats a bad thing.. Im saying it would be nice to have direct involvement from the factory... As a team this helps alot...

I guess this all boils down to dollars and cents in the end when trying to run a pro effort.
You end up spending ALOT of money trying to run a BMW with very little support from the factory... Where as with Porsche you at least have the option ( not inexpensive by any means ) to deal with the factory...

Ultimately I would love to run a BMW in GT again ,, Maybe when they allow a V8 powered M3........... Hmmmmm maybe M4? For now we will continue to run a BMW whenever it is possible and the car is competitive like Grand Am Cup... And club racing.

Lastly... If BMW Motorsport offered complete cars like the Porsche Cup Cars to privateer teams at a reasonable price (150-160k) and were capable of the same performance that a Cup car is. We would be all over it... As would many other privateer teams............. That im sure of.. More sponsorship for Privateer teams would be very good also..... Or atleast technical support from the factory would be a excellent starting point.

Wish us luck @ Laguna Seca........... The M3's should be strong there.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just my .02 cents.........

Fabryce Kutyba
GMG Racing
www.gmgracing.com


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Fabryce,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I've wondered for some time what the potential would be for an M3 Cup series and you've put a price on it. I guess I hate to use the "Cup" word, but anyway you know what I mean. BMW has done that kind of thing in the distant past with the M1's. Porsche has an extensive infrastructure of GT3 Cup Cars. It's a formula that could benefit any manufacturer who wants to establish a motorsport image and in so doing also improve the cars. BMW doesn't need to do that, but the BMW model describes what you and I have described, in that the race team must build the car from parts. Whereas, Porsche offers the turnkey race car. Ford is doing that with the new Mustang, aren't they?

Good luck at Laguna Seca!

Steve Tenney


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