# How important are winter tires in the winter?



## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*I know snows all around is now reccomended.....*



swchang said:


> Can you explain the reasoning behind these decisions? I'm very curious as to why you'd do that.


... but I have been driving my RWD cars for 32 years with only snows on the rear. In WV I was putting 40K a year on my vehicles and I used Goodyear F-32s on the back of my work car and on my first MB without winter problems. If the snow was too deep or the road too slick, I would put on chains.

In WV I noticed that FWD vehicles with only snow tires on the front drive wheels, were having lots of accidents. Most of the time the accident would be in a curve, and the driver would report that the rear end slid out in the curve, causing them to slide off the road sideways. That is why I put snows on all four wheels of my FWD cars.

Now living back on LI, we have snow usually less than 10 days a year. Snows on the back, with an occasional use of chains in deep snow has served me well.

If I get a car without all-season tires, a car with high performance tires like an M5, I would put snows on all four wheels for a number of the reasons mentioned by previous posters. First the staggered set up of the M5, with wide tires, is not the best for snow conditions. Taller, less wide snow tires on narower wheels would do much better as a snow set up, front and rear. Narrower tires in back would fit chains better than the wide stock M5 rear tire. High performance tires, as mentioned above, do not do well in the snow or stopping on cold, slippery pavements.

The bottom line is that my wife and I have a lot of experience (32 years each) driving in bad winter, snow, blizzards, up and down hills/moutains and bad icy slipery conditions. We have adjusted our driving caracteristics to the conditions of the road, and we have done well over the years. Often in bad snow conditions I am passed by a AWD or 4x4 vehicle and up the road I see the vehicle off the road, having lost control because they were driving too fast. Mabe we have been tempting fait and we should switch to using snows on all for wheels on our cars.

Our son will be starting to drive next year. I will make sure the vehicle he drives have snows on all four wheels. I would like to get an AWD E61 (525xiT) when they are available or I might get a CPO X5, and putting snow tires on all for wheels would be a moot point. If I end up getting a CPO E39 wagon, I probably will put snows all around.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

if you must drive then get them. if you don't and can take public transpo, then do that. i had been doing that for the past while and it was fine w/ me since i didn't endanger my car from the idiots out there that can't drive worth sh!t in snow. but this and last year, i'm at a place where public transpo is tough so i will need to get some.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

sph17 said:


> ... but I have been driving my RWD cars for 32 years with only snows on the rear. In WV I was putting 40K a year on my vehicles and I used Goodyear F-32s on the back of my work car and on my first MB without winter problems. If the snow was too deep or the road too slick, I would put on chains.
> 
> In WV I noticed that FWD vehicles with only snow tires on the front drive wheels, were having lots of accidents. Most of the time the accident would be in a curve, and the driver would report that the rear end slid out in the curve, causing them to slide off the road sideways. That is why I put snows on all four wheels of my FWD cars.
> 
> ...


Ah, okay. Good to know.

So you don't think an X5 would need snow tires? And what do you mean by narrower wheels?


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

HW said:


> if you must drive then get them. if you don't and can take public transpo, then do that. i had been doing that for the past while and it was fine w/ me since i didn't endanger my car from the idiots out there that can't drive worth sh!t in snow. but this and last year, i'm at a place where public transpo is tough so i will need to get some.


 Here on LI public transportation is not an option unless you are going into NYC. The trains funnel everyone into the city, and don't connect the cities well. Getting around on LI requires a car.

We had two blizzards last winter and the other drivers on the road were my biggest worry. When every one else got home, and I had the roads to myself, driving was much more pleasurable, even if there was more than 12 inches of snow on the ground.


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

swchang said:


> Ah, okay. Good to know.
> 
> So you don't think an X5 would need snow tires? And what do you mean by narrower wheels?


I believe the X5 I test drove had M&S tires. I know the Range Rover we had previously had M&S.

As for "narrower wheels" I would follow whatever Dave Z http://www.zeckhausen.com/ or Luke the Tire God at TireRack ([email protected]) would reccomend for the model in question for winter wheels/tires.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

sph17 said:


> I believe the X5 I test drove had M&S tires. I know the Range Rover we had previously had M&S.
> 
> As for "narrower wheels" I would follow whatever Dave Z http://www.zeckhausen.com/ or Luke the Tire God at TireRack ([email protected]) would reccomend for the model in question for winter wheels/tires.


I thought M&S tires were simply all-seasons? Or are they a special type of all-season? I dunno, I always thought summers and winters should be put on SUVs as well, but then I couldn't find any large enough on Tire Rack... :dunno:


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

swchang said:


> I thought M&S tires were simply all-seasons? Or are they a special type of all-season? I dunno, I always thought summers and winters should be put on SUVs as well, but then I couldn't find any large enough on Tire Rack... :dunno:


winter tires have different tread patterns and different rubber compounds. winter tires will not last as long as all-seasons and will be most likely be noisier than all seasons. narrower winters are prefered because the contact patch is smaller and so there's a higher psi on the snow or ice.


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*SUV tires*



swchang said:


> I thought M&S tires were simply all-seasons? Or are they a special type of all-season? I dunno, I always thought summers and winters should be put on SUVs as well, but then I couldn't find any large enough on Tire Rack... :dunno:


Snow tires made for cars may not go large enough for an SUV. Tires made specificly for an SUV or truck start out big and get bigger. I just checked TireRack for a LandRover and there are many choices in Snow tires, all season and summer treads. Do a search for tires for the vehicle you are interested in.


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## hector (Jul 14, 2003)

*fwd vs rwd with snow tires*

i'm debating whether to get a cheap fwd car to drive in winter or to put winter tires on my 330ci. will i do just as well in the snow with the rwd car? also, how would the rwd car with snows compare to the fwd car with all-season tires and to the fwd car with snows?


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## sph17 (Oct 5, 2003)

*FWD vs. RWD*



hector said:


> i'm debating whether to get a cheap fwd car to drive in winter or to put winter tires on my 330ci. will i do just as well in the snow with the rwd car? also, how would the rwd car with snows compare to the fwd car with all-season tires and to the fwd car with snows?


FWD vehicles when they first became popular were sold as great in snow/slippery conditions as the engine weight was over the drive wheels. I never had much luck with FWD Audi 5000 or a Honda Acord in deep snow as they have less ground clearance because of the front transfer case.

In addition, I often found that going up hills, when the weight of the car shifts back onto the rear tires, FWD cars don't do well. I have actually had to turn around and back up steep hills with my previous FWD cars for traction. With FWD vehicles, you have to put four snow tires on a FWD or you risk having your rear end slide out on curves and loosing control.

I have had better luck with a RWD MB (W123, W201, W202) or BMW (E39) with good snow tires (Blizzaks) and a set of chains/cables for realy bad snow storms/ice. Putting cables on FWD vehicle is an iffy proposition. I know it can be done, and my brother did it with his Volvo, but I am not that comfortable putting them on a FWD.

Get a cheap vehicle for the winter if you don't want to risk your 330ci in bad weather.


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## FireFly (May 2, 2002)

An Xi (AWD) owner chiming in here...

I have driven 2 winters with my All Season tires on the Xi and we get a lot of snow here in NH. I'll say that for normal winter driving, any BMW with AS tires will do pretty darn good. AWD with AS tires is a great match for most things- still not great at climbing steep slopes covered in snow but they work.

Now throw snows into the mix and you'll have a few advantages over cars without them. 2 enormous advantages will be stopping power and the ability to steer. 

I have turned the corner on this issue- I thought AWD would make the biggest difference but now I am convinced a good set of snows will be a better set up in the winter.

So this winter I'll have my AWD and dedicated snows on it- I'd rather over-compensate than put my life (and others) in danger.

If you throw snows on your RWD then you'll do just fine.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

FireFly said:


> An Xi (AWD) owner chiming in here...
> 
> I have driven 2 winters with my All Season tires on the Xi and we get a lot of snow here in NH. I'll say that for normal winter driving, any BMW with AS tires will do pretty darn good. AWD with AS tires is a great match for most things- still not great at climbing steep slopes covered in snow but they work.
> 
> ...


 Wow.

When did you change your mind?


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## hector (Jul 14, 2003)

sph17 said:


> FWD vehicles when they first became popular were sold as great in snow/slippery conditions as the engine weight was over the drive wheels. I never had much luck with FWD Audi 5000 or a Honda Acord in deep snow as they have less ground clearance because of the front transfer case.
> 
> In addition, I often found that going up hills, when the weight of the car shifts back onto the rear tires, FWD cars don't do well. I have actually had to turn around and back up steep hills with my previous FWD cars for traction. With FWD vehicles, you have to put four snow tires on a FWD or you risk having your rear end slide out on curves and loosing control.
> 
> ...


thanks for the input, your point about hills is very relevant to my situation as i live on a hill and have a very steep driveway as well, i think i'm gonna put the winter tires on and see what happens.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Wow.
> 
> When did you change your mind?


Ditto. I remember the days (only a few months ago) when you (FireFly) were one of the strongest proponents of AWD or bust. rumratt's going to be blown away. :yikes:


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## FireFly (May 2, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Wow.
> 
> When did you change your mind?


After 2 winters I have gotten to know my BMW a lot better. And of course listening to all of you has given me a good education on the subject 

A RWD with snows will not be perfect but IMHO it will be better than a AWD with AS tires in most circumstances.

And rember- my situation is anything but normal with the killer driveway I have - so unfortunately I need AWD and snows- which is definitely over-kill on anything but my driveway.


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## FireFly (May 2, 2002)

swchang said:


> Ditto. I remember the days (only a few months ago) when you (FireFly) were one of the strongest proponents of AWD or bust. rumratt's going to be blown away. :yikes:


I have seen the light


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