# Big disappointment with the M3



## liuk3 (May 3, 2004)

I don't know about you guys, but I would LOVE to have an E46 M3 as a second car for the track if I could afford it. But that being said, the 530 is a more comfortable everyday ride, especially when you have to take passengers like I did with my parents in town this past week.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

liuk3 said:


> I don't know about you guys, but I would LOVE to have an E46 M3 as a second car for the track if I could afford it. But that being said, the 530 is a more comfortable everyday ride, especially when you have to take passengers like I did with my parents in town this past week.


I absolutely agree :thumbup:

My M3 is "My" car, & one I bought to drive in a fairly sporty way, but would not be my choice for a people transporter on a regular basis.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The M3 is too soft for me stock. 

I would not even think about an E46 M3 as a toy car. There are far too many better options out there when you take people hauling/cargo capacity out of the equation.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> No, the E46 M3 has the worst steering rack BMW currently has in production. Significantly worse than a standard 3'er.
> 
> I do wonder if the standard 3'er rack could be installed...


I don't think I've ever heard that. Fascinating.


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## jrp (Nov 11, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> The M3 is too soft for me stock.
> 
> I would not even think about an E46 M3 as a toy car. There are far too many better options out there when you take people hauling/cargo capacity out of the equation.


Yup...E36 and E46 M3's are not the class leaders in any one thing. However, I've always found their appeal in their being very good in a lot of things.

Are there faster cars? Yes.
Are there sexier cars? Yes.
Are there cheaper/more practical cars? Yes.

M3's have a good dose of all 3 of those attributes. Most other cars have a tough time getting 2 out of 3.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

jrp said:


> Yup...E36 and E46 M3's are not the class leaders in any one thing. However, I've always found their appeal in their being very good in a lot of things.
> 
> Are there faster cars? Yes.
> Are there sexier cars? Yes.
> ...


Funny I feel about the same, in fact I wont sell my E46 & would actually like some day to obtain an E36 M3 as well - I have always just loved the look of the E36's. I dont want a flamboyant "Toy car" as in something like a Vette, even though I love Vettes...they just are too much "razzle-dazzle look at me".


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I like the M3 steering, at least all the way up to 145, which as fast as I have been, at Watkins Glen.

But I have driven some formula cars (FF, FC, F2000)and raced an SRF, and they have light steering at speed (very heavy at parking lot speeds).

The trick would be the CSL steering rack.

I don't think the M3 is too soft stock, what what it is designed to be. I found it very controlled, at least until the shocks starting going soft. You do have to realize Nick has been know to run his double adjustable Konis at full stiff on the street. 

But I do agree, if you want a purely fun car, there are other cars out there that would fulfill that role better, and even cheaper. Z06, Elise for two.


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> The M3 is too soft for me stock.
> 
> I would not even think about an E46 M3 as a toy car.


You mentioned in another thread that sometimes you think you should've kept the 325xiT and got a toy car. I've been wondering if I should keep my 330i and get a toy car or trade the 330i in on either an E46 M3 or most likely an E90 M3. So I'm wondering why do you not consider the E46 M3 to be a toy car? Is it just because of the price or something else?



Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> There are far too many better options out there when you take people hauling/cargo capacity out of the equation.


Could you list some of those cars? Thanks.

__________________________________________________________________________


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> But I do agree, if you want a purely fun car, there are other cars out there that would fulfill that role better, and even cheaper. Z06, Elise for two.


Why would you say the Z06 and Elise would be more "fun" then the E46 M3? I can see you have a lot of experience driving these types of cars and I would like to hear some of your opinions about this. Thanks.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> The M3 is too soft for me stock.
> 
> I would not even think about an E46 M3 as a toy car. There are far too many better options out there when you take people hauling/cargo capacity out of the equation.


Like??? Corvette?? Not near as refined...you'd sell that in the first 2 years after replacing alternator/water pump and your seats are cracking...Porsche??? You'll pay for it...Being that you'd have to go with a 911turbo or better to outrun the m3....Viper...more money for a motor, nothing else....What do you compare to the M3...heck...I still go buy groceries with mine...and I can haul people, some what comfortably...But I rather not..
There are other choices, but other than an Ac NSX or Supra(in which they don't make either any more ), I can't find anything else...I think that Mojosaan should be looking at the V10 M5...4 door people hauler, that'll perform to his needs(being that he was comparing a 5 series to an M3)


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

The M3, while an awesome car, is a compromise. It has 4 seats, a real trunk, geegaws and such. All this takes away from the ultimate performance from the car.

Make no mistake the M3 IS a fun car, and in my case, it is a toy car (last 4 months, 1 tank of gas per month). And depending on what you want out of a car, it can be the best choice. I like that I can take my performance car on longer trips. It is usable around town. So in many ways you can drive it more often than a true fun car.

But for a truely fun car, you want no compromises. Super 7, Elise, etc fit that catagory.

Of course the best setup would be an M3 for your "normal" car and an Elise for your fun car. Add in a truck/SUV for a tow vehicle and a real race car you are are pretty much set.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

I love the E46 M3 for its sounds, its great looks, and it's fantastic engine and tranny. I wouldn't say it's the most involving car to drive, I'm sure the Elise or a 993 Carrera or something is better, but it does have that special character that so few modern cars have. I think it has more character than the E36 M3, which seems a bit too ordinary, even though I love that car too, and it does have more road feel than the E46. 

I don't care that much about handling performance, it's more about the feel, the involvement, the adjustability, that makes you feel like you are really driving, and not just turning the wheel and letting the car do all the work.


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## Jim in Oregon (Dec 23, 2001)

I test drove the new 530i with smg and it was a nice car that handled well but with the active suspension it gives a false sense of security since the car has no lean to it. That said....I love my M3. I haven't found a car out there that has the overall balance, handling, power, and capacity to hold 4 people, all the while having a stick shift and smg. I've currently gone from a 2002 M3 smg to a 2003 E39 M5, back to a 2004 M3 smg. I loved the M5 but it just didn't corner as well as the M3. The M5 along with the E60 530i are just getting too heavy. Heck, at 3400 lbs, the M3 is too heavy. I want a car that I can enjoy driving and never fall asleep at the wheel....the M3 does it for me. For people moving, I have a 2003 Acura 3.2TL-S that is about $10K less than the E60 530i.



mojosaan said:


> I test drove the M3 yesterday and I'd have to say a big let-down. :thumbdwn: Yeah, it had great acceleration but I also test drove the 530i with Sport. The handling of the 5 was better than the M3 and a 545i with Sport, would probably make it even better. I was thinking about the M3 for a long time but on a whim, I decided to test the 5 and I'm glad I did. Now, I just have to make up my mind. :tsk:


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Guys, the reason that I bought the M3 is that it's the best overall package on the market. BMW makes the Ultimate COMPROMISE machine, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot fanboy.

If I wanted a dedicated performance car just for fun, it would NOT be a BMW. There are too many built in compromises.

And quite frankly, I'm still REALLY pissed off about the steering. There's just no excuse for that.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

The active steering on the 5 felt very unnatural to me at the short course Lexus's event. For the money, I would go with mechanical steering in the M3 over 5 series sports.


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## mojosaan (Feb 24, 2004)

*A definite compromise*

I think I may have a bias here since the car I currently drive is the Z4 with Active Steering and I'm used to it. Also, I am not one who's been on a track in a car, on a motorcycle yes, but not a car. So, I maybe missing the advantages the M3 has to offer. However, taking my experience in riding a sportbike I think driver confidence has a lot to do with how well a person can drive and I just think that the average person like me will handle a situation better with a car that offers more assistance if you will. I think M3 owners with real driving skills for the amount of performance you get from the M3 is small compared to M3 owners who just stomps on the pedal for the rush and may not have the necessary skills to react properly in a crisis situation. I think the 5 helps the rest of use folks who buy a car to drive to work, meet friends, get diapers and have a spirited drive every now and then. BTW, I appreciate everyone's comments.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

mojosaan said:


> I think I may have a bias here since the car I currently drive is the Z4 with Active Steering and I'm used to it. Also, I am not one who's been on a track in a car, on a motorcycle yes, but not a car. So, I maybe missing the advantages the M3 has to offer. However, taking my experience in riding a sportbike I think driver confidence has a lot to do with how well a person can drive and I just think that the average person like me will handle a situation better with a car that offers more assistance if you will. I think M3 owners with real driving skills for the amount of performance you get from the M3 is small compared to M3 owners who just stomps on the pedal for the rush and may not have the necessary skills to react properly in a crisis situation. I think the 5 helps the rest of use folks who buy a car to drive to work, meet friends, get diapers and have a spirited drive every now and then. BTW, I appreciate everyone's comments.


Good luck Mojo :thumbup:


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Guys, the reason that I bought the M3 is that it's the best overall package on the market. BMW makes the Ultimate COMPROMISE machine, and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot fanboy.
> 
> If I wanted a dedicated performance car just for fun, it would NOT be a BMW. There are too many built in compromises.
> 
> And quite frankly, I'm still REALLY pissed off about the steering. There's just no excuse for that.


Man...it troubles me that you're that pissed about the steering....I don't get it...Do you think it might be that your 18"(track pic) vs. my 19" might be the root of our difference of opinion? I mean...the other day I decided I'd take the twisty scenic route home from work(15 miles longer)and pushed it trying to see what you're talking about...not feeling what you're talking about..a little stiff in parking lots though....05 BMW m3...loaded with every option/upgrade & premium pkg


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## jrp (Nov 11, 2004)

I have the 19's on my 04...but the steering on my 99 (stock 17's) simply feels more alive....

I agree with Nick's sentiments on the entire car being built on compromises. However, maybe, merely as a matter of terminology, I would not call M3's compromise machines. Designing in the compromises were a means towards an end. The goal was overall balance. The Ultimate Balanced Machine, perhaps?


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

What about the new ZCP competition package, is there any hope of it being the "holy grail" of steering feel?

I am starting to think it may be the way to go.

Not a big fan of 19" rims tho.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

dawgbone said:


> Man...it troubles me that you're that pissed about the steering....I don't get it...Do you think it might be that your 18"(track pic) vs. my 19" might be the root of our difference of opinion? I mean...the other day I decided I'd take the twisty scenic route home from work(15 miles longer)and pushed it trying to see what you're talking about...not feeling what you're talking about..a little stiff in parking lots though....05 BMW m3...loaded with every option/upgrade & premium pkg


I turn on a dime & am extremely pleased with my M3 steering 18's or 19's I love the feel.


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## Z4B-Mer (Dec 2, 2004)

get a Z4 3.0i :thumbup: handles greeeeaaaattt


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

not to my experience and my M3...

:thumbdwn:


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

bimmerguy said:


> Not a big fan of 19" rims tho.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Z4B-Mer said:


> get a Z4 3.0i :thumbup: handles greeeeaaaattt


Compared to what? NOT an E46 M3, or an E36 M3, or even an E30 M3.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> Compared to what? NOT an E46 M3, or an E36 M3, or even an E30 M3.


 Uh, it's 500+lbs. lighter Terry... That alone makes the Z4 feel good. It's essentially an E46, but stiffer and with a lot of weight taken out.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Autocrossing the stock Z4s (admittedly 2.5s) at HomeComing 03 did NOT impress me. I don't think Randy Forbes thought much of them either.

But then a non-M E46 didn't impress me either, so saying it is an E46 that is lighter, still doesn't it make it handle that well. Now if they actually do sell an MZ4 then probably.

And it is less than 420 pounds lighter.  2998 versus 3415.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dawgbone said:


> Man...it troubles me that you're that pissed about the steering....I don't get it...Do you think it might be that your 18"(track pic) vs. my 19" might be the root of our difference of opinion? I mean...the other day I decided I'd take the twisty scenic route home from work(15 miles longer)and pushed it trying to see what you're talking about...not feeling what you're talking about..a little stiff in parking lots though....05 BMW m3...loaded with every option/upgrade & premium pkg


You're comparing apples and oranges; pushing it hard on the twisty scenic route vs. Nick's 140 mph on a track. Nick is a pretty demanding track nut who is bound and determined to wring every ounce of handling performance out of his M3, so he just won't sit back and say that M3s are the greatest.

One thing I've found is that some of the people most critical of the M3 are people that have owned the M3. While I think Nick's comment about "idiot fanboys" is a little harsh, there's quite a bit of truth to it. A little tough to take for a new owner, but give it some time and you'll get used to it. 

Alex


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

OK, it's in the 2900s. Mark Sipe's car weighed in less than that figure you've got.

And Alex, I've hit 150.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

I should also add that I've been just as disappointed with the steering while running 245/35-18 Hoosiers on the car. These have significantly shorter sidewalls than even the tires on your 19" wheels.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> OK, it's in the 2900s. Mark Sipe's car weighed in less than that figure you've got.
> 
> And Alex, I've hit 150.


Are you taking into account the optimistic speedo factor? Wouldn't 150 real have to be at least 165 registered? 


Alex


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> I should also add that I've been just as disappointed with the steering while running 245/35-18 Hoosiers on the car. These have significantly shorter sidewalls than even the tires on your 19" wheels.


I'm pretty sure that it's not possible...or at least good luck finding that kind of thread..I'm running 255/40 in front and 35 in rear...BTW Hoosier makes a horrible tire...well...maybe not horrible....but you definatley don't see them winning races(Lemans..etc..)


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Oh the AUTOCROSSING tires out there, there has only been one choice until very recently. Remember that the tires have to be DOT legal. The Kumho V710 appears to be faster, but wasn't available in a usable size last season.

When you switch to slicks, things change, but you'll find that Hoosier is pretty prevalent in racing serie that actual humans participate in.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

BahnBaum said:


> Are you taking into account the optimistic speedo factor? Wouldn't 150 real have to be at least 165 registered?
> 
> 
> Alex


 Not going off the tachometer.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

BahnBaum said:


> You're comparing apples and oranges; pushing it hard on the twisty scenic route vs. Nick's 140 mph on a track. Nick is a pretty demanding track nut who is bound and determined to wring every ounce of handling performance out of his M3, so he just won't sit back and say that M3s are the greatest.
> 
> One thing I've found is that some of the people most critical of the M3 are people that have owned the M3. While I think Nick's comment about "idiot fanboys" is a little harsh, there's quite a bit of truth to it. A little tough to take for a new owner, but give it some time and you'll get used to it.
> 
> Alex


You're right apples and oranges...the thread was started by comparing a 5 series handling vs M3...any idiot can rag his machine out on the track and push it passed it limits..There are no boundries on a track...no change in pavement...you're either racing, or learning to race on a track...a store bought M3 is not by far a race car...and with a SMG...kinda takes the fun out of things...What do you put on the track that's so fast to compare the M3 to...This guy as got to be old...and too tired to feather a clutch...I consider it a refined grocery getter with a little kick..."Idiot FanBoy" ...no.... more of an enthusiast, jerky...New e46 M3 owner...yes...But not the first BMW...So with all of his xit's/ 325's, why is he still buying a $60k + BMW that he doesn't like???"Idiot FanBoy"(didn't you test drive it before you bought it)... and if he's so pissed and does his 150 on the straighton the track so much, then why not install a new rack, bilsteins, strut tower..etc..To me this guy sounds like the Idiot...And yes, alot of people that own a BMW are the most cridical, but that's because they don't understand what they are buying...Ask them what a roundel is...they just look good in it..that's what they know....I bought mine knowing that the m motor is only rated for 100k miles before rebuild...I won't complain when I have drop a new block in it...


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

dawgbone said:


> I bought mine knowing that the m motor is only rated for 100k miles before rebuild...I won't complain when I have drop a new block in it...


You have to rebuild the E46 M3 motor every 100K? I didn't know that.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Moderato said:


> You have to rebuild the E46 M3 motor every 100K? I didn't know that.


No...just rated....Kinda like the rx's rotary motor...All tested hp is rated...as in sometimes they'd shoot rods through the block at 13000, and sometimes 9000...not that m's will blow up, but the compression is not up to par...from my understanding it's been like that since m1....dunno...just word of mouth


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Well Nick, I never said that Mark's car ws bone stock.  Yes it is fullly Stock legal, but that doesn't make it STOCK. As you well know.

Also, Nick has his way he likes cars to feel, and each and everyone of the rest of us like different things. I like the steering in the M3. I like the turn in, for a street car, with an aligment change.

Is it the ultimate car, absolutely not. But I still ike mine, and plan on keeping it. Is it the best car for a lot of people who need 4 seats, a trunk, a car they can take long trips in, a car they can track and autocross, etc, yeap.

Oh, and BTW Nick's car is NOT stock as delivered, you should do some searches to see what Nick has done. And knowing Nick, his claim of 140 was based on reading max RPM on the track, then coming in and running the numbers, not the speedo. He's too an*l to just read the speedo and accept that. 

Also, I would say for the vast majority of owners, the M3 is so high above their skills level they never figure out what it can really do.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dawgbone said:


> You're right apples and oranges...the thread was started by comparing a 5 series handling vs M3...any idiot can rag his machine out on the track and push it passed it limits..There are no boundries on a track...no change in pavement...you're either racing, or learning to race on a track...a store bought M3 is not by far a race car...and with a SMG...kinda takes the fun out of things...What do you put on the track that's so fast to compare the M3 to...This guy as got to be old...and too tired to feather a clutch...I consider it a refined grocery getter with a little kick..."Idiot FanBoy" ...no.... more of an enthusiast, jerky...New e46 M3 owner...yes...But not the first BMW...So with all of his xit's/ 325's, why is he still buying a $60k + BMW that he doesn't like???"Idiot FanBoy"(didn't you test drive it before you bought it)... and if he's so pissed and does his 150 on the straighton the track so much, then why not install a new rack, bilsteins, strut tower..etc..To me this guy sounds like the Idiot...And yes, alot of people that own a BMW are the most cridical, but that's because they don't understand what they are buying...Ask them what a roundel is...they just look good in it..that's what they know....I bought mine knowing that the m motor is only rated for 100k miles before rebuild...I won't complain when I have drop a new block in it...


Knowing Nick, I'd have to say that you're wrong on just about every point you raise here, both about him and his car. Kinda proves that old saying about the "assume" thing.

Alex


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

BahnBaum said:


> Knowing Nick, I'd have to say that you're wrong on just about every point you raise here, both about him and his car. Kinda proves that old saying about the "assume" thing.
> 
> Alex


Yeah you're right...don't know Nick...I'm some what new to Bimmerfest...kept reading about it in Roadfly, so I figure I'd take a look..It's always MB vs. BMW....Being a new e46 M3 owner...I did not exspect or want to find a critic/hater in this forum..That's fine to be critical of the car he bought....but he does'nt need to be a hole about it, accuse or call names...The guy just comes across as such....I guess he should have saved his $60+ and not have bought his M, and shopped a little longer and bought the 5 series, like the guy who started the thread was asking about...He never did say what his whole issue was...Was it the rack/pump? If so, did you try pulleys before gutting it... Shocks? Suspension components? Oversteer? Understeer? Too heavy, too light? Crappy under hard brake? I've pushed mine pretty good........spun out at nearly 70...and even then the car seemed so balanced that I could not feel the front swing around faster than the rear..or vice versa...Fact is, is that I'm perfectly satisfied with what BMW done with the M3...Not an e36...but better IMO...Sorry if *I* flustered any body....


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

If you can't handle criticism of the car you drive, then don't buy it. I've said repeatedly that the E46 M3 is the best car currently made for me. How you can claim that it's perfect is just beyond me.

Now, if you'd like to know what I'e done, here's the list:
TC Kline Double Adjustable coilovers.
600lbs. springs in front, 800lbs. springs in rear. These will change. Most liekly the fronts will go down and the rears up.
Ground Control front sway/rear sway delete (lets you get stupid amount of power down coming out of turns)
For the street and some autocrossing, I use Fikse Profil 13 wheels, sized 18x9.5" with 275/35-18 Toyo RA-1s.
Cmpetitive autcrossing is done on Hoosier A3S04s in 275/35-18, although I will be switching to Kumho Ecsta V710s in 285/30-18 as they're faster.
My track wheels for the time being are a set of 17x8 OZ Superleggeras with 255/40 Toyo RA-1s. I'm swtiching to Kumho Victoracers in the same size, as they're a much more fun tire to drive on the track on.
Brake Mods:
RoadRaceTech brake cooling ducts
Stainless Steel Brake Lines
Hawk HT-14 track pads in front, HT-10s in the rear.

The steering on the E46 M3 sucks because it is slow and ponderous in the vicinity of the center. I've had a couple other people drive my car on the track and they had the same comments: Wonderful car, but the steering and the brakes suck.

Would I be happier in a 5'er? No. You need to work on your reading comprehension. What I said was that the roll stiffness of the E60 Sport suspension makes it FEEL like it handles better. Not that it does.

The E46 M3 in stock handling form suffers from two main problems: 1) Omnipresent understeer, until 2) you get VICIOUS snap oversteer at the limit that can be very hard to catch.

I did not direct the "idiot fanboy" comment at you specifically. However, your reaction to it has proved that you are indeed exactly that.

As a final point, please attend a writing skills class. Your poor grammar and sentence structure make reading your posts an excruciating task.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dawgbone said:


> Yeah you're right...don't know Nick...I'm some what new to Bimmerfest...kept reading about it in Roadfly, so I figure I'd take a look..It's always MB vs. BMW....Being a new e46 M3 owner...I did not exspect or want to find a critic/hater in this forum..That's fine to be critical of the car he bought....but he does'nt need to be a hole about it, accuse or call names...The guy just comes across as such....I guess he should have saved his $60+ and not have bought his M, and shopped a little longer and bought the 5 series, like the guy who started the thread was asking about...He never did say what his whole issue was...Was it the rack/pump? If so, did you try pulleys before gutting it... Shocks? Suspension components? Oversteer? Understeer? Too heavy, too light? Crappy under hard brake? I've pushed mine pretty good........spun out at nearly 70...and even then the car seemed so balanced that I could not feel the front swing around faster than the rear..or vice versa...Fact is, is that I'm perfectly satisfied with what BMW done with the M3...Not an e36...but better IMO...Sorry if *I* flustered any body....


I'm not going to speak for Nick. He drives his M3 at the limits and finds fault with certain aspects of his car at those limits, and for those of us who don't track our M3s we probably never expose those faults. And, if bimmerfest was made up of a bunch of people who sat around all day and did nothing but fawn neverending praise on our BMWs, this would prolly be a pretty damn boring place. Nothing wrong with having critics and even the occasional hater around!

Alex


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Thanks for the info...No I'm not one to fawn on the car that I drive...Had I put work into it, then maybe I would be a little more proud. The car is stock, and will remain as such, being that it is my daily driver..I do have my own quirks with the car..So in other words, I do respect your opinion...It was unclear to me, what you were talking about..And had Bahn never had said anything about the Idiot Fanboy, I would've never noticed...I learn from these forums, and tell others what I know...I'm not into heated opinionated discussions to begin with..You Northerners are rude, flat out..Completely unaware and discourtious, to anyone but your own...The whole Idiot FanBoy phrase is proof enough..Cool guy...I'm glad to have moved to the south, when I came to the states...
Sorry about my grammar...I think it's good...
Flemming (Denmark)


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dawgbone said:


> Thanks for the info...No I'm not one to fawn on the car that I drive...Had I put work into it, then maybe I would be a little more proud. The car is stock, and will remain as such, being that it is my daily driver..I do have my own quirks with the car..So in other words, I do respect your opinion...It was unclear to me, what you were talking about..And had Bahn never had said anything about the Idiot Fanboy, I would've never noticed...I learn from these forums, and tell others what I know...I'm not into heated opinionated discussions to begin with..You Northerners are rude, flat out..Completely unaware and discourtious, to anyone but your own...The whole Idiot FanBoy phrase is proof enough..Cool guy...I'm glad to have moved to the south, when I came to the states...
> Sorry about my grammar...I think it's good...
> Flemming (Denmark)


Okay, now that we got that out of the way, how do you like your '05? Waiting for the first person with the comp package to post pics here...

Alex


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## HUMMM 3 (May 10, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> If you can't handle criticism of the car you drive, then don't buy it. I've said repeatedly that the E46 M3 is the best car currently made for me. How you can claim that it's perfect is just beyond me.
> 
> Now, if you'd like to know what I'e done, here's the list:
> TC Kline Double Adjustable coilovers.
> ...


Am I reading your post correctly? You have an M3 with Nav and a rear window shade plus a tire store's worth of tires and wheels? If so, well whoop-de-do. Anyone with your prickish attitude probably does need a Nav screen to find their way around the course. Don't bother dignifying this post with one of your holyier than thou replys.


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

I think Nick is only meaning to help by explaining his own experiences with his M3 as well, that is actually what I like about this forum, naturally there will be disagreements now & again....and even an occassional temper, but hey, I have rec'd several great idea's here :thumbup:


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

HUMMM 3 said:


> Am I reading your post correctly? You have an M3 with Nav and a rear window shade plus a tire store's worth of tires and wheels? If so, well whoop-de-do. Anyone with your prickish attitude probably does need a Nav screen to find their way around the course. Don't bother dignifying this post with one of your holyier than thou replys.


 Nah, I'm always happy to thank idiot fanboys for their input.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

HUMMM 3 said:


> Don't bother dignifying this post with one of your holyier than thou replys.


Afraid of the competition or do you just not want to be imitated? :dunno:


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## Moderato (Nov 24, 2003)

HUMMM 3 said:


> Am I reading your post correctly? You have an M3 with Nav and a rear window shade plus a tire store's worth of tires and wheels? If so, well whoop-de-do. Anyone with your prickish attitude probably does need a Nav screen to find their way around the course. Don't bother dignifying this post with one of your holyier than thou replys.


Did *YOU* read the post? He's done alot more to the car then get wheels and tires.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

flashinthepan said:


> I think Nick is only meaning to help by explaining his own experiences with his M3 as well, that is actually what I like about this forum, naturally there will be disagreements now & again....and even an occassional temper, but hey, I have rec'd several great idea's here :thumbup:


Yeah...but Nick has shown his (_!_) here...More than anything..I learn something new every day...Maybe one day, I'll grow from an "IDIOT FANBOY" to a God's gift to the world guy...just like Nick


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

BahnBaum said:


> Okay, now that we got that out of the way, how do you like your '05? Waiting for the first person with the comp package to post pics here...
> 
> Alex


Unfortunately...the comp package wasn't an option...I think it will be available after 12/04...Kinda ticked off about it...I might have waited if I knew that when I ordered the car..But I think the only difference would have been the Track mode and a rear strut tower brace...As far as the ZCP, I just really like the brakes, trim, and steering wheel....or is that all there is to the package?


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dawgbone said:


> Unfortunately...the comp package wasn't an option...I think it will be available after 12/04...Kinda ticked off about it...I might have waited if I knew that when I ordered the car..But I think the only difference would have been the Track mode and a rear strut tower brace...As far as the ZCP, I just really like the brakes, trim, and steering wheel....or is that all there is to the package?


csl wheels and quicker steering rack.

Alex


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

The competition package has a half decent steering rack (even BMW recognized the problem), but comes with brakes that are not track worthy. Cross drilled rotors will crack when used hard.

Unfortunately, the competition package come swith CSL * lookalike * wheels, it would seem. Only 8" wide up front.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

dawgbone said:


> Yeah...but Nick has shown his (_!_) here...More than anything..I learn something new every day...Maybe one day, I'll grow from an "IDIOT FANBOY" to a God's gift to the world guy...just like Nick


 Good luck with that! :thumbup:


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

This thread just keeps getting better and better.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Good luck with that! :thumbup:


Thanks...I got a long way to go.. ha.. ha..


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

dawgbone said:


> Unfortunately...the comp package wasn't an option...I think it will be available after 12/04...Kinda ticked off about it...I might have waited if I knew that when I ordered the car..


You ordered an '05 and didn't know about the comp package?

Alex


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Unfortunately, the competition package come swith CSL * lookalike * wheels, it would seem. Only 8" wide up front.


Bummer. I was hoping there were going to be some CSL wheels hitting the used market in the not too distant future.

Alex


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

I still say I track my 02 M3 and like the steering. I find the steering nicely light and positive, without the dead/slow/pnderous feeling that Nick decribes. But then again Nick seems to have problems with his that I don't see in mine or when I drove BahnBaum's (to try a manual, and guess what, I LIKE the shifter too  ).

My other track experience is in Formula Fords, Formula Ford 2000/Formula Continentals and Spec Racer Fords.


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## dawgbone (Nov 19, 2004)

BahnBaum said:


> You ordered an '05 and didn't know about the comp package?
> 
> Alex


Yeah...crappy deal...But when I ordered it, the comp package wasn't in the picture...It wasn't until nearly 2 months into production that they put out that it wound't be available until 12/04..or something like that...


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