# European Delivery Nightmare



## Jalli (Jan 10, 2005)

vitaly said:


> point well taken. HOWEVER, it would be nice if BMW CHARTERED a ship(s) JUST FOR BMW's being delivered to this side of the pond. Basically create their own pipeline due to the increasing demand and the need of their customers for clear, accurante and timely information. Especially for ED.
> 
> If they can build the Welt for $700+ million dollars. They can spend whatever it takes to make this happen.


Why would they do this? BMW knows nothing about shipping and transporting cars. Also, for the guy that keeps on making the Fed Ex analogy, there is a huge difference. Your FedEx package never leaves the hands of FedEx, while your BMW is almost never in the custody of BMW itself.

Sure, it would be nice if all the software systems were tied together, but it would also be nice if we had air traffic control software that wasn't written in the 1970's in a language that can only be understood by two people alive today. It would be nice if many things were true, unfortunately we are forced to live in a state of reality at the present time.


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## M.Wong (Jan 9, 2003)

I had a nine week re-delivery due to damage repaired at the VPC. But it was damage we incurred on the Autobahn (took a rock into the A-pillar at 120 MPH...) We expected a delay. Updates provided were few and far between. The wait was painful.

But once the car arrived it looked better than new. Eventually, you should get a product repaired _correctly_ at the VPC in fine condition - that should be worth the wait.

The lack of communication may be a negative. But remember the European Delivery experience you had, as well as the car you will (eventually) get to enjoy again.

And unfortunately, *anything less than a 90 day re-delivery is a bonus*.


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## TheGuest (Apr 11, 2007)

I think this is something that one should expect. You delivery will end up 8 weeks (roughly) from drop off time (not bad considering repairs). Mine took 7 weeks with no damage/repairs. Lack of communication. Yes, may be. But you can call port and ask them about the status. However, even they might not be able to tell you precisely where your car is at the moment. The best bet is sit tight and wait.

Enjoy your new car! =)


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

Jalli said:


> Why would they do this? BMW knows nothing about shipping and transporting cars. Also, for the guy that keeps on making the Fed Ex analogy, there is a huge difference. Your FedEx package never leaves the hands of FedEx, while your BMW is almost never in the custody of BMW itself.
> 
> Sure, it would be nice if all the software systems were tied together, but it would also be nice if we had air traffic control software that wasn't written in the 1970's in a language that can only be understood by two people alive today. It would be nice if many things were true, unfortunately we are forced to live in a state of reality at the present time.


I don't think you can compare the air traffic control software and all the airplane's it has to keep track of DAILY to the number of cars BMW delivers to US. The latter is a fraction of the former and is MUCH easier to solve.


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

vitaly said:


> I don't think you can compare the air traffic control software and all the airplane's it has to keep track of DAILY to the number of cars BMW delivers to US. The latter is a fraction of the former and is MUCH easier to solve.


Alright... here is another reason that it will never happen. The BMWED department is essentially the step-child of all BMWNA departments. In that the ED departments has no resource, no marketking budget and virtually no internal support. Thus... Let me propose this... *If you want changes, start writing letters to the BMWNA and AG President's office in what a great time you had and what suggestions/improvements you would like to see.* 

Bickering here is great for discussion and entertainment purpose, but the upper management and decision makers at BMW don't bother to read this.


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## Ian335i (Jun 4, 2007)

Well I'm about to leave on my ED trip, and I must say that I'm not expecting to get the car back within 2 months. Mainly because of the holidays at the end of the year and the Performance Center being closed. Either way, people that get their cars back in less than 2 months have not been in the majority this year. A thread I remember with a poll showed that most got re-delivery in 7 and 8 weeks. I know everyone wants their car, and that the OP's situation would've been better if he'd been told the truth all along, but we should all plan and prepare to not get our new baby back for 2, or possibly 3 months. :angel:


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

beewang said:


> Alright... here is another reason that it will never happen. The BMWED department is essentially the step-child of all BMWNA departments. In that the ED departments has no resource, no marketking budget and virtually no internal support. Thus... Let me propose this... *If you want changes, start writing letters to the BMWNA and AG President's office in what a great time you had and what suggestions/improvements you would like to see.*
> 
> Bickering here is great for discussion and entertainment purpose, but the upper management and decision makers at BMW don't bother to read this.


Question: Why did BMW build the Welt?


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

vitaly said:


> Question: Why did BMW build the Welt?


For the Marketing Might of BMW AG

(I know where you are trying to go with this, and I can tell you this... they DIDN'T build it for the BMW ED and its customers. We are merely the incidental beneciary... nothing more..)


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

vitaly said:


> Question: Why did BMW build the Welt?


To accommodate ca. 40,000 German customers per year.


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

beewang said:


> For the Marketing Might of BMW AG
> 
> (I know where you are trying to go with this, and I can tell you this... they DIDN'T build it for the BMW ED and its customers. We are merely the incidental beneciary... nothing more..)


in that case we should all just keep quiet and be happy we got the experience/savings that we did. thank our ca's whenever we get our cars and lower our expectations of BMW.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

Jalli said:


> Why would they do this? BMW knows nothing about shipping and transporting cars. Also, for the guy that keeps on making the Fed Ex analogy, there is a huge difference. Your FedEx package never leaves the hands of FedEx, while your BMW is almost never in the custody of BMW itself.


You are so wrong on this.

MOST (if not all) of the fellas that deliver FedEx packages are *independent contractors.* They wear FedEx uniform, they drive trucks with FedEx logos but they ARE NOT EMPLOYEES OF FEDEX.

UPS delivery ppl, OTOH, work directly for UPS. Either model works, as long as you know logistics.

Which again brings me to my point. The BMW re-delivery & customer notification/information channel is at best worthless and non-existent.

For the millionth time, I don't mind if my car takes 9 weeks because of an in-transit damage. But I do mind not knowing what the hell is happening to a forty-five thousand dollar car.



> Sure, it would be nice if all the software systems were tied together, but it would also be nice if we had air traffic control software that wasn't written in the 1970's in a language that can only be understood by two people alive today. It would be nice if many things were true, unfortunately we are forced to live in a state of reality at the present time.


OK, so I'm supposed to feel better because BMW's order tracking system is on par with a 50yr old government agency's? Are you for real?


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

coontie said:


> You are so wrong on this.
> 
> MOST (if not all) of the fellas that deliver FedEx packages are *independent contractors.* They wear FedEx uniform, they drive trucks with FedEx logos but they ARE NOT EMPLOYEES OF FEDEX.
> 
> ...


Thank You. My point exactly.


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## joev62 (Aug 15, 2007)

so is this a GERMAN BIG DADDY BMW issue or a BMW-USA issue? It seems that BMW knows where the vehicles are in the production line in Europe, they know when they are dropped off and loaded on the ship, they even know where the ship is and when it docks...its seems that the real issues start when the cars are unloaded and don't end until they are re-delivered to the customer. So whose responsibility is tracking that part? Mine? BMW-USA? the shipping company? some guy on the street in New Jersey? the US Government Dept of Lost Sedans?


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

coontie said:


> ....For the millionth time, I don't mind if my car takes 9 weeks because of an in-transit damage. But I do mind not knowing what the hell is happening to a *forty-five thousand dollar car*....


Oh .... ppppppppplease... I suppose on the contrary.... we could say that we are the same tight-wad who travel 1/2 way around the world to save a nickle... (albeit $4k worth of nickels ) Please don't flash around the $$ sign... there is nothing more pathetic than trying to sound like a bigshot when we all know that the real reason we are all here is because we are cheapskates


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

beewang said:


> Oh .... ppppppppplease... I suppose on the contrary.... we could say that we are the same tight-wad who travel 1/2 way around the world to save a nickle... (albeit $4k worth of nickels ) Please don't flash around the $$ sign... there is nothing more pathetic than trying to sound like a bigshot when we all know that the real reason we are all here is because we are cheapskates


at least somebody is honest with themselves :rofl:

a better way to phrase that is we are prudent and would like to know where our 'investments' are :dunno:


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

beewang said:


> Oh .... ppppppppplease... I suppose on the contrary.... we could say that we are the same tight-wad who travel 1/2 way around the world to save a nickle... (albeit $4k worth of nickels ) Please don't flash around the $$ sign... there is nothing more pathetic than trying to sound like a bigshot when we all know that the real reason we are all here is because we are cheapskates


hmm... You mean there are people on this board that are impressed by a $45K price tag?

You can't be serious?

Who am I supposed to impress with that? It's just a 335i, man. Not a loaded M6 or anything like that. A lease to boot. Monthly payment of $490. Why would anybody be impressed by that or think me a bigshot? :dunno:

And why do you think I'm flashing it? On the contrary, that's a LOT of money to me.

Confused.


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

joev62 said:


> so is this a GERMAN BIG DADDY BMW


why is BMW a daddy? I tend to think of them as a mommy.


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## joev62 (Aug 15, 2007)

how about this 

BMW Galactic Headquarters - Munich
BMW Outer-rim Planet - BMW USA


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## BCathey (Oct 31, 2007)

I***8217;m a sucessful homebuilder and I***8217;d love to find a customer like Beewang that thinks I***8217;m not responsible for my subcontractors ***8230; doesn***8217;t care if I miss repeated delivery schedules ***8230; doesn***8217;t mind if I never call to report progress or problems ***8230; and isn***8217;t at all concerned with failure to provide full-disclosure reporting for damages. 

Unfortunately I've never had a home buyer like this ... therefore I continue to be amazed at BMW FD's repeated failures to recognize these most basic customer expectations.


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

BCathey said:


> I'm a sucessful homebuilder and I'd love to find a customer like Beewang that thinks I'm not responsible for my subcontractors ***8230;. doesn't care if I miss repeated delivery schedules ***8230;. doesn't mind if I never call to report progress or problems ***8230;. and isn't at all concerned with failure to provide full-disclosure reporting for damages.
> 
> Unfortunately I've never had a home buyer like this ... therefore I continue to be amazed at BMW FD's repeated failures to recognize these most basic customer expectations.


I could be way off base here, but since our car's were purchased through ED and there are a LOT more steps in terms of acquiring a BMW vs the traditional worry free way ... the process of tracking our cars has not been perfected yet. Also, we (ED'ers) are not as important to the DEALER because they are not making as much money on us.


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## joev62 (Aug 15, 2007)

Hasn't BMW been doing EDs for 30+ years?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

joev62 said:


> Hasn't BMW been doing EDs for 30+ years?


Ja, and the amount of information you can get now has vastly improved compared to 30 years ago.

You can find out what vessel the car is on, track it as it moves from port to port and even across the ocean, and more.

The problem really starts when the car is off loaded and sits in the customs waiting area at the port. Customs doesn't provide information in terms of wait times, etc. Once the car hits the VDC, it will only be there a day or so except for those cases where repairs are needed. If a repair is needed, that can be found in CenterNet.


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

JSpira said:


> Ja, and the amount of information you can get now has vastly improved compared to 30 years ago.
> 
> You can find out what vessel the car is on, track it as it moves from port to port and even across the ocean, and more.
> 
> The problem really starts when the car is off loaded and sits in the customs waiting area at the port. Customs doesn't provide information in terms of wait times, etc. Once the car hits the VDC, it will only be there a day or so except for those cases where repairs are needed. If a repair is needed, that can be found in CenterNet.


(#1) The more people have their cars delivered via ED, the more NEW problems BMW is faced with. Problems they've never faced with before and are just learning how to deal with.

(#2) My car is definetelly in need of repair. Where can I find CenterNet?


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## flyga3 (May 8, 2007)

: popcorn::drink:


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## Asteroid (Aug 17, 2005)

*This is only the first step*



beewang said:


> ...the real reason we are all here is because we are cheapskates


Hi, my name is asteroid, and I'm a cheapskate.


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## woodie5 (Mar 11, 2007)

+1


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

beewang said:


> I respectfully disagree... I think it is important for people reading this forum to know that there is a "cost" or "Downside" of European Delivery. Though not discussed regulary, I think it is important for readers here to know and have a place to "Vent" their fraustration. I would hardly calling it a "Nightmare" as BMW has clearly communicated to us that the redelivery process could take up to 90 days.


Frustrating yes, nightmare not really. Redelivery times are a bit of a crap shoot unfortunatly and the wait does seem interninable but that's part of the ED cost/benefit trade off. Port repair delays happen with dealer cars too. The end user just doesn't know if his car was damaged and repaired.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

Asteroid said:


> Hi, my name is asteroid, and I'm a cheapskate.


Right. My ED vacation cost me at least three times the amount I saved on the car. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.


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## ger3sf (Feb 3, 2004)

A 2-month redelivery is like, normal...

When friends ask me how much I saved doing ED, I say "about half, spent $12K for the 2-week vacation, but saved $6K on the car".


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## slugdriver (Dec 30, 2005)

Think people loose sight of the fact that, if BMW states and the buyer fully understands upfront that it may take up to 90 days to take redelivery of an ED vehicle, then the buyer should plan accordingly. 

IOW, it's sort of like parachuting. You know upfront the inherent risks of jumping out of a perfectly good airplane and the possibility that your main parachute may not open. That's why you have a reserve!!

Nevertheless, I agree that if BMW could develop/devise a way to enable customers to obtain a sitrep on their vehicle whilst in the VPC, customs etc. so much the better.

Slug


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## x986 (Oct 27, 2006)

joev62 said:


> the US Government Dept of Lost Sedans?


Ahh, that's the problem. You got a sedan.


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## x986 (Oct 27, 2006)

We need a new poll. The number of slow deliveries that are sedans vs. 'verts & coupes.


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

x986 said:


> We need a new poll. The number of slow deliveries that are sedans vs. 'verts & coupes.


Never enough polls I say. How about by color too?


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## Calvette (Oct 4, 2007)

I'd pass on EuroD if we were buying a car that was going to be our daily driver. And yes I hope ours arrives undamaged in 6 to 8 weeks. I'm sorry to hear about your nightmare and hope it gets worked out soon. Lots of middle men in the process so I can understand how $h1t can happen.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

My 04 545 was dented in an Italian parking garage by some anonymous fool. BMW did a great job fixing it at the VPC. Then there was a recall on a part so they held the car there. After complaining BMW waived a lease payment.

The VPC body shops are awesome at what they do. They are the best.


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## vitaly (May 11, 2007)

pharding said:


> My 04 545 was dented in an Italian parking garage by some anonymous fool. BMW did a great job fixing it at the VPC. Then there was a recall on a part so they held the car there. After complaining BMW waived a lease payment.
> 
> The VPC body shops are awesome at what they do. They are the best.


How long did they hold your car after it arrived in US? just trying to figure out what my threshold should be before i start complaining.


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## kyfdx (Aug 4, 2003)

coontie said:


> You are so wrong on this.
> 
> MOST (if not all) of the fellas that deliver FedEx packages are *independent contractors.* They wear FedEx uniform, they drive trucks with FedEx logos but they ARE NOT EMPLOYEES OF FEDEX.


This is incorrect. 99.9% of FedEx Express personnel are FedEx employees. FedEx Express has over 100,000 employees, which account for about 65% of FedEx Corp's overall business. FedEx Ground drivers are almost all contractors (depending on the latest court case..lol), but that is less than 15% of FedEx. The rest of the FedEx Ground personnel (warehouse, sorting, etc) are mostly employees of FedEx.

FedEx also owns three (or more) LTL companies that do business as FedEx Freight. Again, with many of their own employees.

So... when you see your friendly FedEx Express driver, you can be certain he is a dedicated employee, and not a contractor.

But, to get to the point.... If Amazon ships me a package via UPS or FedEx, and I want to know where it is.... Amazon doesn't tell me: "Hey, we aren't in the shipping business!". They use shippers that can trace the package, and tell me where it is, and the expected delivery date/time.

To say that BMW, who spends tens of millions of dollars (if not hundreds of millions) shipping cars all over the world, can't demand accountability from their shippers.. well, that's ludicrous (no, not the rap star).

Now, BMW NA's own inability to give good information, once they have the car at the VPC? That's just poor information management. Easily fixed, if they have the will to do it.

regards,
kyfdx


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## siraseranant (Aug 6, 2007)

OK. let me ask everyone something...is it safe to say that most of the vehicle re-delivery arrived undamaged and we are just hearing nightmare cases on bimmerfest?


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## VIZSLA (Mar 16, 2007)

kyfdx said:


> This is incorrect. 99.9% of FedEx Express personnel are FedEx employees. FedEx Express has over 100,000 employees, which account for about 65% of FedEx Corp's overall business. FedEx Ground drivers are almost all contractors (depending on the latest court case..lol), but that is less than 15% of FedEx. The rest of the FedEx Ground personnel (warehouse, sorting, etc) are mostly employees of FedEx.
> 
> FedEx also owns three (or more) LTL companies that do business as FedEx Freight. Again, with many of their own employees.
> 
> ...


Don't know what problems you're having but I was able to track my car through the shipper's (Harms) web site and was even able to get GPS updates on the ships location once I got its name. The information trail cooled once it hit port but I found that a polite approach got me updates from BMWUSA's 800 number and from my dealer.
Bear in mind that the wait only seems forever.


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## Pedal2Floor (Jul 29, 2006)

siraseranant said:


> OK. let me ask everyone something...is it safe to say that most of the vehicle re-delivery arrived undamaged and we are just hearing nightmare cases on bimmerfest?


Yes, otherwise they would be out of business.

New cars also get damaged, however they are repaired before they go the dealer lot and nobody knows what happened because you are never told.

All cargo, be it DVDs or cars, suffer some percentage of damage during shipping even if all shipping guidelines are followed -- mistakes happened, cargo hooks break, bad weather tosses a ship about.

As always, the internet is a place to vent and complain but this happens all the time. All companies try to minimize damage -- the optimal word is minimize -- because some small percentage always gets damaged. If the percentage was high, they would go bust. Thats why there is shipping insurance and other means to try to repair or take damaged items out of circulation.

This is normal but not frequent


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