# Anyone have a pic of the Dinan Cold air/Meter?



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

FlyingDutchMan said:


> Yeahh....right...She's just saying that so you feel like you got something for your money and quit buying more stuff for the car.
> 
> There are lots of things racers do that don't make financial sense, like racing for example.
> 
> ...


Read it again. She didn't know I even bought it, much less installed it.

And you don't understand my wife. SHE is the one pushing for complete suspension upgrade, Conforti cam kit, and better tires on the Roadster, and has no problem with doing the same for the M3, although she thinks there is nothing wrong with buying a SECOND M3 for a track car.

Sooner or late someone will figure out that the things don't do anything, and stop using them and win, proving they don't help. But they do, anything that improves chassis stability and rigidity is good.

BMW made it as strong as needed, in fact since they are German, I am sure it is stronger than needed. If it was Lotus I might be concerned with how strong the factory part is.


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## Riceeater (Aug 26, 2003)

If that is the logic then you can stop wasting your money on strut braces today. I regularly smoke the other 2002 and 2003 e46s M3s at both track days and AutoX that are equipped with strut braces. And unlike her opinion on the strut brace, your wife is right about a full suspension upgrade. Call Jay at GC. Get some Koni adjustables, some camber plate, some sway bars, etc. Then you'll realize why $250-500 bucks for a strut brace is a waste of money.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Riceeater said:


> If that is the logic then you can stop wasting your money on strut braces today. I regularly smoke the other 2002 and 2003 e46s M3s at both track days and AutoX that are equipped with strut braces. And unlike her opinion on the strut brace, your wife is right about a full suspension upgrade. Call Jay at GC. Get some Koni adjustables, some camber plate, some sway bars, etc. Then you'll realize why $250-500 bucks for a strut brace is a waste of money.


A strut brace will not make you win. Any more than a full suspension workup will MAKE you win. It just means the car has more potential to go faster.

Michael Schumacher in a beat up E30 325e would likely beat you in any M3.

As for my wife, the point was (since you seem to keep missing it) is that it DOES make a noticible difference. The only way to test by feel is do do a blind test. And it is even better if the person doesn't even know there is a test in progress, which this case was.

This was all in response to your claiming that they make no difference at all. Which is not correct.

WRT calling GC, Jay will also tell you that a strut brace will keep all those nice Ground Control parts properly located so that they can do their jobs. Putting all that high tech stuff on a more flexible chassis will not get the most out of it. And in some cases (not E46 M3s) putting too stiff of springs, shocks and sways on a flexible chassis car will make things worse as the car becomes the suspension due to flex.


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## FlyingDutchMan (Jul 18, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> And you don't understand my wife. SHE is the one pushing for complete suspension upgrade, Conforti cam kit, and better tires on the Roadster, and has no problem with doing the same for the M3, although she thinks there is nothing wrong with buying a SECOND M3 for a track car..


Woooo, she doesn't happen to have a sister, otherwise you guys would make great in-laws if you happen to have a daughter.



Pinecone said:


> BMW made it as strong as needed, in fact since they are German, I am sure it is stronger than needed. If it was Lotus I might be concerned with how strong the factory part is.


You give the Germans way too much credit, being Dutch I am of course a little biased. The metal and casting in the strut tower most likely came from Asia. It is a nice part though.

Lotus, and the Britsh's grasp of chassis design is probably not far off from the German's, if at all. Granted their QC in manufacturing has sucked. The Germans, specifically BMW (Rover, Rolls and Cooper) are the ones buying Britsh car companies right?


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

FlyingDutchMan said:


> Woooo, she doesn't happen to have a sister, otherwise you guys would make great in-laws if you happen to have a daughter.
> 
> You give the Germans way too much credit, being Dutch I am of course a little biased. The metal and casting in the strut tower most likely came from Asia. It is a nice part though.
> 
> Lotus, and the Britsh's grasp of chassis design is probably not far off from the German's, if at all. Granted their QC in manufacturing has sucked. The Germans, specifically BMW (Rover, Rolls and Cooper) are the ones buying Britsh car companies right?


Nope, only child and our kids have four feet and fur.  And I WILL fight to keep her. 

Well traditionally Colin Chapman's (Lotus) design philosophy was to make the part as light as possible, and if it didn't break, make it lighter. Continue until the part breaks, then go back to the last design that didn't break. Makes for a VERY light car, but not very reliable.

German engineering has been more of the if x is big enough, then x + y will be better, and so will will make it x + y + z to make sure.  It doesn't matter where the part is made, it is made to BMW specs and is strong enough, and then some. I can't think of a single item on a German car I have ever seen underdesigned.

Of course French cars are not designed, they are just stuck together at a whim.


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## Riceeater (Aug 26, 2003)

Okay. I give in, strut braces make a big difference, they're worth the money, and in a blind drive test, 2 in 3 will notice it.


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## SteveMedina (Apr 4, 2003)

Strut Brace works....if anything it helps eliminate some slop that may occur...it is not the end all, cure all, magic pill modification......


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## SteveMedina (Apr 4, 2003)

I wouldn't say BIG difference....it isn't a suspension modification ya know...just a brace....nothing more, nothing less....


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*finally a voice of reason*



SteveMedina said:


> I wouldn't say BIG difference....it isn't a suspension modification ya know...just a brace....nothing more, nothing less....


why so much disagreement? the stock brace is very smartly designed. the great advantage to those with adjustable camber plates, as well as those with stock suspension, is that when loosening the upper mount, if the brace is only loosened on the side being worked on, you will maintain the positioning of the strut. The tower holes are eliptical, they allow the strut to move, the brace eliminates that - that's simple and a really good reason to have one. The design is actually perfect. Minimalist approach with function over form being paramount once again. As far as the ridgidity it offers, or lack there-of, who cares? It is exactly as Steve says, another component to a suspension package, and likely is adding some help in corners to boot.


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## FlyingDutchMan (Jul 18, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> Nope, only child and our kids have four feet and fur.  And I WILL fight to keep her.


No offense to your critters, but I only date bipeds...preferrably shaved.



Pinecone said:


> German engineering has been more of the if x is big enough, then x + y will be better, and so will will make it x + y + z to make sure.  It doesn't matter where the part is made, it is made to BMW specs and is strong enough, and then some. I can't think of a single item on a German car I have ever seen underdesigned.


I would say that WAS true of much german design. But compare a 996 to a 993 Porsche, or a 1990 560SEC to a 2003 CL500, or a 1986 325i to a 1999 Z3, and I think most will agree that these older cars are much more stout.

A Benz mechanic will tell you that the mid 90's 4valve V8 is much stronger than the new 3 valve design. Then again it weighs 30% more too.



Pinecone said:


> Of course French cars are not designed, they are just stuck together at a whim.


This is true not only for their cars but their white flag waving society in general.


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