# What is wrong with us?



## andytaro (Jan 6, 2008)

When we (wife, 11 and 1 year old) were at the Welt for our first ED last month ( i still owe festers my report ), I felt we should have dressed a bit better than old navy jean and a polo shirt. Everyone else, probably Europeans, were much older than me and dressed nice. They were staring at us like we don't belong there while I was waiting for signing documents. 
It is because either I took my kids, my race (Asian), European dress code violation, or my age ( i am 35 ).
So we decide to hide in the kids room and eat and enjoy Disney movie in German until my delivery time. My kids were not screaming nor running around in the waiting area, but we were just sitting in sofa innocently and drinking carbonated water uncomfortably ( i didn't know the blue cap was carbonated ones...). I still have no idea why they were looking at us like we came from 100 million light years away.:dunno:

Here is a pic of my kids hiding in the kids room.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

As I wasn't there, I certainly can't be certain. But one possibility is that is nothing more than your having an attractive family. Families get a lot of attention in Europe. We were surprised at being treated nicely in France (and even in Paris!) when we traveled several years ago with our then young son and his grandmother (my mother-in-law).

As to dress: June was cool in Munich, so you saw a wide variety of clothing at the Welt. I don't wear jeans, but I was dressed casually and my wife wore a Hawaiian shirt. There were peopled dressed better, but several were at least as casually dressed as we were.

OTOH, we are old(er) and from European ancestry.

(See PM for an additional comment.)


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

There might be things that are wrong with many of us (hard to depict it from your description and without psychology degree :angel, but dressing for comfort ain't one of them...

Of course, if you felt uncomfortable, that is a different story. However, this I believe has been discussed in great depth on this forum, and some people would dress up for ED, while others would wear jeans and feel fine.

After all, there is nothing about specific dress code in the ED description... Why some people insist on wearing a tuxedo after 15 hour flight or before extensive driving trip starting right after Welt is still unclear to me...

PS. I applaud you for retaining your sanity after an overseas flight with a 1 y.o.


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## am_ver (Jul 12, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your experience. If you felt you were getting the discriminatory attitude - the best would have been to not give a f#$#k about anyone else and done what u wanted. Sit in the middle of the room and stare back if thats what it took. I had to do that a couple of times at the Star Alliance 1st class lounge in MUC. People can be pretty starey and rude if you even slightly different


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## f1fan (Jun 22, 2007)

Well maybe, just maybe they thought you were going to drive all the way back to Asia (WITH KIDS) :rofl: Now that would be crazy!! Although as mentioned above you DID fly with a 1yr old. Good luck with the car and don't worry about the ignorance displayed daily by others.


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## andytaro (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for your feedback. I usually don't care about how others think of me. 
In the US, I've never experienced this "look" from other people so I was a bit surprised rather than felt uncomfortable. 
Once I stepped out of the lounge, people don't give a shiiiet about us. lol That is why I was puzzled what I did wrong/right in the lounge to get other's attention even though I did not do anything crazy other than just sitting in the lounge and enjoying my first carbonated water.

P.S. My 1 year old did ok during 10 hour flight. Of course we had to keep her entertained and feed junk food, but she did not scream or kick people in front of her. 
Lufthansa was great. They let families with small children go on board first and gave us Lufthansa souvenirs for my daughters.


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## bknauss (Jan 2, 2008)

Americans simply stick out in Germany.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Maybe they were staring because they were thinking
1.) we should have dressed more comfortably and
2.) we should've taken the kids


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## Boile (Jul 5, 2005)

Maybe your fly was unzipped.


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## ucdbiendog (Nov 19, 2007)

here's my experience:
Day 1 at welt: we went up to the premo lounge to schedule the factory tour. hung around while we waited for a couple hours. that day we were dressed verry casually, pants and t-shirt basically. 
Day 2 at welt: pick-up day, dressed a little nicer, nice jeans, button up shirt, etc.

Both days, didn't really notice anyone looking funny at us. maybe thats because we were too jet lagged to care though.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I didn't wear anything out of the ordinary either.


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## Calif65GM (Mar 27, 2005)

I think I had jeans on and a polo shirt and no one stared at me or appeared discriminatory. Did you check-in before grabbing a seat in the lounge? BTW I'm Asian too. Then add on the fact that the "ugly" American/Asian says "good morning", "good afternoon" or "thank you" in German to them then they're really caught-off guard.

Honestly I think the real issue is that they were probably surprised by having an Asian family/tourists traveling alone and not with a tour group because that's the typical way that Asians travel. If you saw any Asians in Europe, you probably saw them in a tour group and not traveling individually. BTW I know I'm profiling.

I'm actually surprised because many Germans and especially those in the Hitler regions are very ashamed of their past history and would not be caught dead being discriminatory according to one guide that I had during my cruise through Nuremburg.


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

When I went to Europe a bunch of years ago, people all looked at me like my junk was hanging out. 

I had broken my ankle a month before, so I couldn't wear any footwear other than oversized Teva sandals, which I paired up with a stylish white crew sock to hide my elephant foot and ankle.  I sure was comfortable, but...

At a football game in England this couple behind me commented: "Did you see his shoes?" I refrained from explaining as the line for beer was long... I could have said "did you see her teeth" but I didn't. :angel: 

I spent a bunch of time in Munich that trip and met lots of Germans, absolutely great people, especially those who were partying with us, which was my main purpose while there. Everyone I met was friendly, even though I had an odd choice in footwear.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

I don't think you were being discriminated with the way you dress. Maybe it is just your impression or maybe you felt guilty for not dressing up formally. BMW Welt people know that US ED customer will drive around Europe after taking the delivery. So they are aware of the comfortability aspect of driving at ease. They also know that majority of US ED customer just came straight from the airport. They don't care on what type or brand you wear because they know that you already bought an expensive car plus the expense of going there.


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## SusieBelle (Feb 18, 2008)

Hey, at least you *were dressed.* If people were staring because you forgot something crucial, then you might have concerns.  I'm sorry you felt uncomfortable. Some people, in being curious, are unintentionally rude. I just smile - sometimes it makes them even *more* curious!


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## cha777 (Sep 19, 2006)

Interesting. I was in Munich 10 years ago and felt that everywhere I went, I got "the look" as well as 2nd rate service (I'm of subcontinental Indian origin). My cousin, who I was travelling with, and I had the last laugh because at the end of the night, wasn't it ironic that our group (bunch of Indians and Jews) were sitting at the Hofbrauhaus having a grand old time at the same place where Hitler rallied his Nazi troops??!! Some people (of whom we referred to that night as "the locals") kept on staring at us and kept on making, what appeared to us at a distance to be snide remarks/comments, but I really felt like this place just wasn't open to non-white visitors.

My wife went with a friend of hers to Europe the year after I went and had the same, cold, feeling about the place to the point where she had made a conscious decision to not go back to Munich.

On my ED trip in July of 2008 (first time back to Munich) I felt like the red carpet was rolled out for me, not just at the Welt but at my hotel and several restaurants that I went to as well. The two conscientious changes that I made was that I dressed in slacks and a shirt most of the time and I tried small German phrases as much as I could bedore reverting to English. So your post surprises me because I thought that Munich (and the region) had changed. I even asked a few people about it at the end of my trip and, of course, nobody could offer any sort of good explanation.

Don't get me wrong...not trying to malign Munich which I think is a phenomenal metropolis. BTW, I agree with JSpira's points in post 8. 

In the end, foreigners just look different. You've all seen foreigners who either don't fit in or try to hard to fit in (yes, I've seen a young Indian man in college arrive with M.C. Hammer pants....about 5 years too late). Human nature is to stare.

Or perhaps they had figured out which car was yours and were just jealous!!


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## andytaro (Jan 6, 2008)

I know there is no dress code in the lounge and din't not feel I was discriminated. Everywhere we've visited during my 2 weeks ED trip ( a week in Germany and another in France), we were treated properly. It was just in the wating area I was puzzled by "the look". Maybe I was talking in Japanese to my daughter, and she was speaking back in English to me or my 1 year old is so cute that others could not get eyes off her. 
After reviewing my pictures, I've noticed that I am the only one having shoes on! Everyone else has sandals or flip-flops...:rofl:
Anyway, I'll definitely do another ED for my wife's car in a few years and will make sure I'll take my entire family of 20-30 people to lounge so we will look like proper Asian tourists.


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## vocalthought (May 5, 2008)

You're too self conscious. Just ignore them.


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## claud 3 (Jun 27, 2005)

Andytaro, I think you got the looks because you had a nice looking, nicely dressed family. That pic of all of you with the car in your last post says it all. Like myself, you may have noticed some of our younger EDers picking up their cars dressed in jeans and a Tshirt. I myself resolved that my family would be decently attired at the Welt. Not JSpira, but decent.


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

There is another element here too. It stuck out at me during the Olympics. America's teams were well mixed with people of all races, while many other country's teams were not. Here, in America, we are quite used to seeing people of other races just going on about their business; here, everybody is something. Much of Europe is not like that, if you are not a white European, you are an outsider. 

Also, BMWs cost waaaay more big bucks for Germans in Germany, and it therefore is more usual for older, more well-off people there to own them. 

Perhaps many were wondering what the heck is that young Asian family doing here getting a BMW? Is he one of them computer millionaires or something? I would guess you were probably stereotyped. Eff'em. That is their problem, not yours. You get to be the one to go to another country, buy a great car, drive it around and have a great vacation, and they aint.


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## am_ver (Jul 12, 2005)

adc said:


> It's like that time in Cinque Terre where I used my best Italian to ask about the next train and had to listen to the entire weekly train schedule in return. I think. Or maybe it was about the weather...


That reminds me of when I asked this lady walking on the street about where the Prada outlet was (south of Florence).. and she kept talking in Italian for a good 5 mins. we were clueless on what she was saying. And the only italian we used was 'squoozie'.:rofl:


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

adc said:


> Eh, let's just say I felt extremely at ease in the old delivery center at Freiman.
> 
> There can be drawbacks to appearing too European-like. The problem with nailing the accent in German, Italian or French etc. for a few short casual sentences is that it greatly encourages the other person to open up the conversational floodgates. It's like that time in Cinque Terre where I used my best Italian to ask about the next train and had to listen to the entire weekly train schedule in return. I think. Or maybe it was about the weather...


Ah yes, the perils of nailing an accent. I can say "Guten tag" like I grew up in Donauworth, or "Bonjour" like a Parisian. I can also say "Ola" and "Ciao" like natives. Unfortunately that usually results in the other party taking off at 78rpm while I comprehend in a 33rpm world. 
I once made the mistake of using flawless Italian to ask at Napoli Centrala for a ticket to Roma. The clerk slammed the shutter down on his window and put up the 'Out to Lunch' sign. The person behind me said I shouldn't have spoken so well as they assumed I was Italian and treated me as such. I was told tourists usually get much more polite treatment!


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## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

DSXMachina said:


> Ah yes, the perils of nailing an accent. I can say "Guten tag" like I grew up in Donauworth, or "Bonjour" like a Parisian. I can also say "Ola" and "Ciao" like natives. Unfortunately that usually results in the other party taking off at 78rpm while I comprehend in a 33rpm world.


LOL, exactly.
I can read French and German pretty well, but my conversational listening is quite slow while my brain processes. :rofl:
In the past 30 yrs of European travel, I find locals are usually very nice when they see that I am trying and not just insisting on English.


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## Buzz_99 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Sport Jacket Practicality*

Wife and I travel quite a bit and I always take a black sport jacket. Airplanes, esp window seat on a 767 can be very cold. The wool jacket comes in handy when dining out at dusk when it cools off. It's good camo for an old freak like me, and it just might get one a better table at a restaurant now and then.

I was too amped at the Welt to notice if anyone was checking me out, and now that I'm in my 50s, well, I appreciate any atttention I may get unless it is from the police. But I did notice we got the eye quite often in villages in Germany and the Alsace. I think they are merely inquisitve because saying "Guten tag, frau" generally turned frowns to smiles.

Buzz_99


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## Papillo (Feb 11, 2008)

bknauss said:


> Americans simply stick out in Germany.


:rofl::rofl: you could say that again. I did my ED with a friend who is asian (also on ED), i am black. Boy did we stick out like a sore thumb. The some of the stares were curious but quite a few were pretty cold... I had fun there but sure was glad to be back home.


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## AirBecks (Feb 8, 2008)

*The American Way.*

We take pride in our ability to be "Laid back" when not working. Apparently we all work SO HARD we need to get into our pajamas to go out.

How many times have you seen adults at the movie theatre in dress shoes and a blazer?

Having worked for a German company and travelling there often, you understand that Europeans as a culture believe they have a responsibility to "create society" and always dress and act responsible in public. Look at any Bavarian town square on a Sunday afternoon. The whole family dresses up for a stroll.

My daughter lived in Brussels for a year, and it changed her dramatically. She's a Junior in College in the US now and ALWAYS dresses up for school.

Have you seen what college kids where to class? I've seen better Pajamas!.... amazing...

On my ED day every Euro national taking delivery were dressed very smartly. Coincidence?


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## SusieBelle (Feb 18, 2008)

People still find it odd that even though I work from a home office, I still get dressed for work just like I used to when we all drove to the same outside office. That being said, it was a fairly casual environment, but just as I wouldn't dream of wearing my pjs and slippers to the office, I don't do that just because I work from a home office either. I regard it as showing respect, if not for myself, for those around me (even my family!). It also ensures that I get the laundry done regularly!


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

SusieBelle said:


> People still find it odd that even though I work from a home office, I still get dressed for work just like I used to when we all drove to the same outside office. That being said, it was a fairly casual environment, but just as I wouldn't dream of wearing my pjs and slippers to the office, I don't do that just because I work from a home office either. I regard it as showing respect, if not for myself, for those around me (even my family!). It also ensures that I get the laundry done regularly!


You must be participating in video conferences from home...:rofl:


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## Gig103 (Sep 10, 2007)

I'm ashamed at all of you 'festers who dressed so casually for such an important day!!


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## nahugry (May 7, 2007)

Judging by the picture you posted OP, you got the looks cause you look like you can be an older brother of your children (you look very young). Who flew from some other continent with siblings to take delivery of your BMW.


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## rich8566 (Dec 3, 2006)

andytaro said:


> When we (wife, 11 and 1 year old) were at the Welt for our first ED last month ( i still owe festers my report ), I felt we should have dressed a bit better than old navy jean and a polo shirt. Everyone else, probably Europeans, were much older than me and dressed nice. They were staring at us like we don't belong there while I was waiting for signing documents.
> It is because either I took my kids, my race (Asian), European dress code violation, or my age ( i am 35 ).
> So we decide to hide in the kids room and eat and enjoy Disney movie in German until my delivery time. My kids were not screaming nor running around in the waiting area, but we were just sitting in sofa innocently and drinking carbonated water uncomfortably ( i didn't know the blue cap was carbonated ones...). I still have no idea why they were looking at us like we came from 100 million light years away.:dunno:
> 
> Here is a pic of my kids hiding in the kids room.


My 3 kids noticed some stares more than a few times while I was driving my 2007 335 around Germany. I came to the conslusion that were amazed at our US Spec car. :rofl:


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## machonachos (May 5, 2007)

andytaro said:


> When we (wife, 11 and 1 year old) were at the Welt for our first ED last month ( i still owe festers my report ), I felt we should have dressed a bit better than old navy jean and a polo shirt. Everyone else, probably Europeans, were much older than me and dressed nice. They were staring at us like we don't belong there while I was waiting for signing documents.
> It is because either I took my kids, my race (Asian), European dress code violation, or my age ( i am 35 ).
> So we decide to hide in the kids room and eat and enjoy Disney movie in German until my delivery time. My kids were not screaming nor running around in the waiting area, but we were just sitting in sofa innocently and drinking carbonated water uncomfortably ( i didn't know the blue cap was carbonated ones...). I still have no idea why they were looking at us like we came from 100 million light years away.:dunno:
> 
> Here is a pic of my kids hiding in the kids room.


I took delivery last year within the 1st 2 weeks of the Welt opening and I will tell you I was treated with top notch customer service. Im asian and 27, so I cant say those factors wouldve made a impact in your experience. On that note, I will say that in most places in Europe treated us well. Which Im sure had to due to the fact that we could have easily been taken as freely spending japanese tourists. Which there are plenty of throughout Europe at any given season.

I saw plenty of kids at the Welt. I do not know if things have changed but the Welt was like the grand opening of Disneyland when I went, it was jammed packed with local families and tourist alike, kids were running around leaving fingerprints on the white E92 M3 and everything.

I dont feel the "always welcoming" German hospitality wouldve be gone now that the dust had settled on the Welt grand opening. But perhaps it dissapated a bit :dunno:


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## chaz58 (Sep 11, 2007)

Sure, there is a dress code at the Welt – even if it is unspoken.

In General, if one wants to be respectful and blend in, you will dress nicely and at least learn ½ dozen words in German.

If you want to be the typical American, you will show up in T-shirt, shorts/jeans with sandals/sneakers. You wont be the first.

Neither one is particularly right or wrong – just depends on whether you want to fit the tourist stereotype or blend in a bit more. The latter shows respect, but isn’t required.

In this particular case, your whole package was unusual (dress, kids, Asian). Its not ‘wrong’, but does make you unique.


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## buccsmf1 (Jun 22, 2008)

was there with my dad and both of were in shorts and t-shirts and didn't really feel out of place. But knowing my dad if anyone would have given him a look he'd certainly say something to them (he is THE arrogant american  but i love him anyways)


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