# Retrofit 609



## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

I have the 609 hardware FSC enabled for my car. I modified the VO, added 609 and wrote it to the car. Now which ECUs I need to code ? Or what is the approach in enabling 609 ? The original SVT with the ECUs in my car attached. I know HU_CHAMP will change to HU_CIC once the hardware is installed. Car was at I-Step 507 and now after some other coded values, it is at 512.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> I have the 609 hardware FSC enabled for my car. I modified the VO, added 609 and wrote it to the car. Now which ECUs I need to code ? Or what is the approach in enabling 609 ? The original SVT with the ECUs in my car attached. I know HU_CHAMP will change to HU_CIC once the hardware is installed. Car was at I-Step 507 and now after some other coded values, it is at 512.


You added 609, but did you remove the non-nav Head Unit Option Code?

I would VO Code HU_CIC, KOMBI, and CMB_MEDIA, and CMB_ECALL.

The FSC Code in the Head Unit, is this a new one for your F10 VIN, or did it come with the donor CIC?


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Hi Shawn,

thank you so much for answering my questions. I hope you will have the time to read my explanation bellow to better understand the problem I am facing.



shawnsheridan said:


> You added 609, but did you remove the non-nav Head Unit Option Code?


I don't know where to look for it.



shawnsheridan said:


> I would VO Code HU_CIC, KOMBI, and CMB_MEDIA, and CMB_ECALL.


Is VO coding different than the FDL coding ? In "Expert Mode" -> "Coding" should I use the "Code" button to write or "Code FDL" for each of the modules ?



shawnsheridan said:


> The FSC Code in the Head Unit, is this a new one for your F10 VIN, or did it come with the donor CIC?


The FSC Code in the Head Unit, is a new one for my F10 VIN, that I bought with the retrofit kit from bimmerretrofit. I saw all the BMW FSC paper work with my car's VIN on them and I was there when they entered the FSC code to enable the Navi.

Here is the whole story:

I bought this retrofit kit from bimmerretrofit and got it installed and coded by them. 
It was working fine until I had to visit my dealer for a seat error code. 
Dealer said my car would need the global update, so I said okay, do the global update too. Only they called me after 5 hours of trying (so they told me) saying they can't proceed with the global update, because the original Head Unit and the display were changed. They also told me that if I want them to retry it, then I would have to reinstall the original Head Unit and display. I agreed and I am due next month for this.

Now the problem. Since the car was at the dealer, the Navi doesn't work anymore, placing the car way off on the map. Going into the service menu, GPS section, it is saying "No GPS available" and the almanach has always a value of 0 satellites. I think while clearing the error code for the seat, they must have changed something that disabled the Navi.

I have a backup of the original CAFs, not all of them though (only for CAS, JBBFE, KOMBI, IHKA, DSC_Premium, HU_CHAMP and FRM). I also have a backup of all the CAFs, FA and SVT that I took a few days after the 609 retrofit.
I guess I will have to try and recode the modules you mentioned, using the CAFs from my backup after the retrofit, right ?

Appreciate your help.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

In E-Sys, "Expert" = > "Coding" module, under "Vehicle Order" after you select "Read" and read your VO, click the "Save" button and then the "Edit" button, and your VO (FA) will open in the FA-Editor. Under "FAList", expand "FA", expand "FZAuftrag", expand "Type" and click on "SALAPA-Element". All your option codes will appear in the lower window, where you can edit and save them. Once you modify the VO, your need to save it again. 

Then when you want to VO Code a module, you need to go to "Expert" = > "Coding" module, Load that saved modified FA, Activate the FA, and then for each ECU that you want to VO Code, right-click on the ECU (the ECU itself and not the underlying CAFD) and select CODE. Unlike FDL Coding, which makes individual parameter changes to an ECU, VO Coding will apply the VO to the module and code the entire module (all paramaters) to support the VO. 

As for your Navi problem, my fear is ISTA/P terminated your new FSC Code. In E-Sys, "Comfort" = > "FSC" module, select the "Check FSC Status", and copy and paste your results from the log window back here.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Here is the FSC status result:

--> Read the state from "1" ECU(s) <--

HU_CIC[DiagAddress=99]
0000000000C873912
RootCertStatus accepted
SigSCertStatus accepted
SWSigStatus accepted
SWTApplications 
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AppID 23
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus accepted
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AppID 25
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus accepted
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AppID 27
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus accepted
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AppID 111
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus accepted
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AppID 156
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus accepted
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AppID 155
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------
AppID 45
UpgradeIndex 4
SWTType SWTshort
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus not available


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Here is the FSC status result:
> 
> --> Read the state from "1" ECU(s) <--
> 
> ...


AppID 25 is your Navigation, and it looks good.

AppID 27 is your Map for Navigation, and it looks good.

AppID 23 is your Voice Recognition, and that one is Rejected.


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## ilhan1103 (Dec 9, 2012)

Damn Shawn, how do you know all that 

Respect!!


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> AppID 23 is your Voice Recognition, and that one is Rejected.


Right, cause I did not opt to buy the FSC for the voice recognition with the kit.

This morning, before going to the office, I had the time only to read the FSC status and also to VO code the HU_CIC. I just learned that after a VO code, a FDL code is needed (which I did not do) cause the HU_CIC is back to its state without any options I did modified previously. For example now I am back to the old style audio player and no DVD in motion.

I can say that after VO coding only the HU_CIC, looking into the service menu, still says "No GPS available". So tonight or tomorrow morning I will VO code the KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA and CMB_ECALL and will try to see how it works before FDL coding them. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Searching through the FDLs for GPS, this is what I found:

In CMB_MEDIA there are only two settings that reference the GPS, both in 3006 TELEMATIK. One is the GPS_FROM_MOST (nicht_aktiv in my settings) and the other is the GPS_POSITION_TIMEOUT (5_Minuten in my settings).

In the CMB_ECALL there is only one reference to GPS, in 3001 TELEMATICS -> ECALL_GPS_ENABLED (nicht_activ in my settings)

In HU_CIC -> 3000 theres one reference to GPS, SYSTEM_GPS_RECEIVER (aktiv in my settings). Then there are two others in 3003 TELEFON_TELEMATIK_ONLINE. One is GPS_FROM_NAVI (aktiv in my settings) and NAVI_INFO_INSTANCE_ID ( wert_1 in my settings) with possible values as 1=NAVI, 2=TCU and 3=Combox.

In KOMBI there is again only one interesting setting in 3000 Anzeige_Konfiguration -> GPS_UHR (aktiv in my settings) which should enable/disable the clock sync from GPS. To verify this, once my Nav will get fixed (or someone with a functional Nav can try it), I will set the clock 1 hour behind and it will be interesting to see if the clock will get set.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Right, cause I did not opt to buy the FSC for the voice recognition with the kit.
> 
> This morning, before going to the office, I had the time only to read the FSC status and also to VO code the HU_CIC. I just learned that after a VO code, a FDL code is needed (which I did not do) cause the HU_CIC is back to its state without any options I did modified previously. For example now I am back to the old style audio player and no DVD in motion.
> 
> I can say that after VO coding only the HU_CIC, looking into the service menu, still says "No GPS available". So tonight or tomorrow morning I will VO code the KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA and CMB_ECALL and will try to see how it works before FDL coding them. I'll let you know how it goes.


Yes, when you VO Code, it codes the ENTIRE module based on FA, so every FDL parameter is set accordingly, and any custom FDL coding is lost.

So, lets see what you have after VO Coding KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, and CMB_ECALL. Make sure you have 609 in the FA you activate for the VO Coding.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Made sure I had 609 in the FA and activated. VO Coded the three modules left KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, and CMB_ECALL. Drove around the block. No joy. Still shows "No GPS available" in the service menu and the position on the map is off by a few tens of miles.
While at it I FDL coded the HU_CIC with the power/torque meters and the xdrive distribution menu. None of them works. In fact the distribution menu just shows but it is greyed out even though the car is xdrive.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Made sure I had 609 in the FA and activated. VO Coded the three modules left KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, and CMB_ECALL. Drove around the block. No joy. Still shows "No GPS available" in the service menu and the position on the map is off by a few tens of miles.
> While at it I FDL coded the HU_CIC with the power/torque meters and the xdrive distribution menu. None of them works. In fact the distribution menu just shows but it is greyed out even though the car is xdrive.


When you added 609 to FA, what SA Code did you remove?

Are you positive the GPS antenna connection is made properly at the back of the CIC?


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> When you added 609 to FA, what SA Code did you remove?


None. I don't know which SA to remove.
I attached the FAs and SVTs before and after the hardware install.



shawnsheridan said:


> Are you positive the GPS antenna connection is made properly at the back of the CIC?


I remember I almost broke my nails trying to remove those connectors at the back of the Head Unit when I did swapped them. But then strange things could happen. It is something I would need to check, but the possibilities are slim.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> None. I don't know which SA to remove.
> I attached the FAs and SVTs before and after the hardware install.
> 
> I remember I almost broke my nails trying to remove those connectors at the back of the Head Unit when I did swapped them. But then strange things could happen. It is something I would need to check, but the possibilities are slim.


Well, maybe the GPS Antenna is connected, but to the wrong connector?

What is your short VIN?


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Navigation was working fine two weeks ago.

I sent a pm with the VIN. 



Sent from my SGH-I717D using Bimmer App


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Navigation was working fine two weeks ago.
> 
> I sent a pm with the VIN.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I717D using Bimmer App


I checked your VIN, and I don't see anything to remove either. I guess the Non Nav system has no option code of it's own.

Well, short of the GPS antenna connector being an issue, I don't have any ideas.

For good measure though, I would also VO Code CAS, ICM, and JBBF.

If that doesn't work, I'd ask Alex at BimmerRetrofit what the issue could be. They have probably seen it all there, and as a customer, I'm sure they would be helpful.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> For good measure though, I would also VO Code CAS, ICM, and JBBF.


I was thinking also to code FRM and CAS. I'll give it a try to the four of them.



shawnsheridan said:


> If that doesn't work, I'd ask Alex at BimmerRetrofit what the issue could be. They have probably seen it all there, and as a customer, I'm sure they would be helpful.


I'll have to postpone this for January. I will take the Global Update first and will contact them after.

Thank you Shawn for your time and patience.
Season's greetings !!!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> I was thinking also to code FRM and CAS. I'll give it a try to the four of them.
> 
> I'll have to postpone this for January. I will take the Global Update first and will contact them after.
> 
> ...


Ok. Good luck, and let us know the outcome.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Was reading on some other forum and just saw that people retrofitting CICs in their cars, besides 609, they are also adding 6VA.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Was reading on some other forum and just saw that people retrofitting CICs in their cars, besides 609, they are also adding 6VA.


Yes, but that is just to get INPA / NCS Expert to recognize it.

E-Sys already replaced HU_CHAMP with HU_CIC, so I don't think that is necessary.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

If anyone can please help me with reading these 10 values that you are having on your car (with NAV) in modules: KOMBI, HU_CIC, COMBOX_EMEDIA AND COMBOX_ECALL.
I did attach an excel file in which it will be easy to input the values. Just remove the .pdf in its name.

Appreciate your help. Thanks.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> If anyone can please help me with reading these 10 values that you are having on your car (with NAV) in modules: KOMBI, HU_CIC, COMBOX_EMEDIA AND COMBOX_ECALL.
> I did attach an excel file in which it will be easy to input the values. Just remove the .pdf in its name.
> 
> Appreciate your help. Thanks.


You had two of the names wrong...You just like making things difficult on me? 

Mine though are all the same as yours.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> Mine though are all the same as yours.


I'm at the end of ideas... But still don't want to accept that something is wrong with the actual CIC or antenna.

Last night I used the original FA and VO Coded KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, CMB_ECALL, CAS, FRM with F010-11-09-507 and FDL coded the original CAFs. Then switched to F010-12-03-512 and FDL coded (not VO coded) the HU_CIC with its backup I took after I installed it. In my mind, like this, it should be back to its "original" state after I installed the HU. But maybe I am wrong... good thing I don't have a hammer near me 

This morning I used the Assist service in the car (no BT connection to my phone) and asked the girl that took the call, if she can tell me where I am at that moment. I was in Canada alright, just not in Montreal from the position she gave me.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> I'm at the end of ideas... But still don't want to accept that something is wrong with the actual CIC or antenna.
> 
> Last night I used the original FA and VO Coded KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, CMB_ECALL, CAS, FRM with F010-11-09-507 and FDL coded the original CAFs. Then switched to F010-12-03-512 and FDL coded (not VO coded) the HU_CIC with its backup I took after I installed it. In my mind, like this, it should be back to its "original" state after I installed the HU. But maybe I am wrong... good thing I don't have a hammer near me
> 
> This morning I used the Assist service in the car (no BT connection to my phone) and asked the girl that took the call, if she can tell me where I am at that moment. I was in Canada alright, just not in Montreal from the position she gave me.


Quit killing yourself. Call Alex at BimmerRetrofit. This could be something simple for those guys.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Did an offline comparison and found that in SVT, besides the swap between HU_CHAMP and HU_CIC another module gets disabled but not removed. The module is CID. 
Does the CID module exists on cars with HU_CICs ? 
Somehow I don't have in any of my backups the .ncd file for this module (CAFD_00000186_007_005_000.ncd).


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Did an offline comparison and found that in SVT, besides the swap between HU_CHAMP and HU_CIC another module gets disabled but not removed. The module is CID.
> Does the CID module exists on cars with HU_CICs ?
> Somehow I don't have in any of my backups the .ncd file for this module (CAFD_00000186_007_005_000.ncd).


The CID is the Display Module (Screen). I would think though that if you were having problems with it, you would have no display at all. In any event, it should have no impact on GPS.

But to answer your question, yes, when you read VCM, you should see CID module with a CAFD. Mine is CAFD_0000008A_004_005_050.

Do you have CID when iin your SVT when you read VCM?

Make sure too that in your CIC coding that KOMBI_CIC is set to match your Instrument Cluster (i.e. kombi_mid, etc.) type.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

After reading VCM, the CID still doesn't have the CAFD entry. The CIC and the display are almost one year newer than the car, if that matters.
KOMBI_CIC is indeed set to match the Instrument Cluster, which in my car is the kombi_mid (I don't have the extended one).
And just to make things worse, another thing I don't understand is that when I am looking through the set of files I saved just after the car was coded for NAV (and was working just fine), I don't see option 609 in the FA. How was the NAV working ?!
I give up.... before I mess up some other things.
I spoke with the guys at bimmerretrofit and arranged a visit for the last week in January.
Hopefully, before that and after swapping the original HU and display, I will successfully pass the global update.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> After reading VCM, the CID still doesn't have the CAFD entry. The CIC and the display are almost one year newer than the car, if that matters.
> I give up.... before I mess up some other things.
> I spoke with the guys at bimmerretrofit and arranged a visit for the last week in January.
> Hopefully, before that and after swapping the original HU and display, I will successfully pass the global update.


Connect => Read FA => Activate FA => Read VCM => Left-Click on CID => Click on "Detect CAF for SWE" => Select the CAFD matching your I-Level => Select OK => Right-Click on CID (the ECU itself not the underlying CAFD) => Select CODE.

To determine your I-Level, go to VCM Module => VCM Master Tab => click Read under I-Steps. The I-Step (current) is the one you want to match when you select the CAFD from the "Detect CAF for SWE" options (e.g. F001-08-09-550).


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Last night, just before your post, I made again some changes, the logic in my head being that in its original state, the car was not having a GPS receiver. Right ?! At least not for NAV.

1. Switched to the psdzdata 45.2 and wrote to the car my original FA, which is at I-Step F010-11-09-507, doesn't have option 609 and module CID is there with the available CAFD in green (only I don't have the .ncd file for it, which I guess is okay since I did not touch it).
2. VO coded KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, CAS, FRM. No FDL coding any of them.
3. Switched to psdzdata 46.3 at I-Step F010-12-03-512 and FDL coded the HU_CIC after changing one value. I made HU_CIC - 3000 HMI - SYSTEM_GPS_RECEIVER - nicht_aktiv/Werte=00 from previously being aktiv/Werte=01

This morning on my way to the office, went into NAV and surprise... On the map it was showing the right position. Did try the guidance to my office address and worked just fine. Went into the service menu and still was showing "No GPS available" and Almanac still at zero.

What do you think about this ?!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Last night, just before your post, I made again some changes, the logic in my head being that in its original state, the car was not having a GPS receiver. Right ?! At least not for NAV.
> 
> 1. Switched to the psdzdata 45.2 and wrote to the car my original FA, which is at I-Step F010-11-09-507, doesn't have option 609 and module CID is there with the available CAFD in green (only I don't have the .ncd file for it, which I guess is okay since I did not touch it).
> 2. VO coded KOMBI, CMB_MEDIA, CAS, FRM. No FDL coding any of them.
> ...


First, I think using older PSdZData is a waste of time. There is nothing that can't be coded using the latest PSdZData that could be coded in the older 45.2 PSdZData.

Using your original FA and VO Coding off it though will have an impact. What are the differences between the original FA, and your new FA?

As for it working now with 3000 HMI - SYSTEM_GPS_RECEIVER = nicht_aktiv, I am a bit suspicious. With my factory 609, this is set to aktiv as I would expect.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> Using your original FA and VO Coding off it though will have an impact. What are the differences between the original FA, and your new FA?


None. The only difference is in SVT where HU_CHAMP is replaced by HU_CIC.



shawnsheridan said:


> As for it working now with 3000 HMI - SYSTEM_GPS_RECEIVER = nicht_aktiv, I am a bit suspicious. With my factory 609, this is set to aktiv as I would expect.


Mine not being a factory 609 I guess it is just integrated differently. I don't have an understanding on how bimmerretrofit programmed the HU_CIC and display to have it working the way it is without 609 appearing anywhere. Maybe they have a different approach in setting things for retrofits.

If I compare the FA, I have after the Sirius activation I did through bimmer-tech, with the FA_aus_VCM (factory), I can see 693 is gone and replaced with 655 in FA/FP. But then it was just an activation.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> None. The only difference is in SVT where HU_CHAMP is replaced by HU_CIC.
> 
> Mine not being a factory 609 I guess it is just integrated differently. I don't have an understanding on how bimmerretrofit programmed the HU_CIC and display to have it working the way it is without 609 appearing anywhere. Maybe they have a different approach in setting things for retrofits.
> 
> If I compare the FA, I have after the Sirius activation I did through bimmer-tech, with the FA_aus_VCM (factory), I can see 693 is gone and replaced with 655 in FA/FP. But then it was just an activation.


For Sat Radio, that makes sense, as they replaced Sat Radio Prep with Sat Radio Tuner.

The GPS though remains a mystery.

I know you have a Jan. appointment with BimmerRetrofit, but did you ask them now if that have any idea off the top of their head what the issue is?


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> did you ask them now if that have any idea off the top of their head what the issue is?


They suggested that the antenna might be the issue. Either the antenna itself or its position I choose in the car for it - I didn't choose to replace the shark fin antenna, so I am using one of those little square thingies, which I keep inside the car, by the passenger A pillar.

Another detail maybe worth to mention, the HU they sold me, even though it showing as US version in settings, is actually coming from the Asian market (it lacks the Sirius tuner which is only available to US/Canada). It is a Harman/Becker unit, made in Korea.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> They suggested that the antenna might be the issue. Either the antenna itself or its position I choose in the car for it - I didn't choose to replace the shark fin antenna, so I am using one of those little square thingies, which I keep inside the car, by the passenger A pillar.
> 
> Another detail maybe worth to mention, the HU they sold me, even though it showing as US version in settings, is actually coming from the Asian market (it lacks the Sirius tuner which is only available to US/Canada). It is a Harman/Becker unit, made in Korea.


The antenna was my first concern too.

So did they install a separate standalone SAT Radio Tuner, that is integrated with the CIC?


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

shawnsheridan said:


> So did they install a separate standalone SAT Radio Tuner, that is integrated with the CIC?


Nope. I just lost Sirius. It was just a bad succession of events with Sirius on my car.

Dealer was supposed to activate Sirius on delivery, but did not and refused to do it (unless I paid for it) almost one year later when I found out I had to get the 1 year free. So in June 2012 I activated it through bimmer-tech, but lost it two months later when I retrofitted the NAV. I did not know I had the Sirius integrated in the HU and it was too late when I found out that the HU_CIC I bought did not have the Sirius module.

I made some bad choices, I know. Without being informed or just misled, I can say I did spend until now close to $4500.00 for this NAV which includes the amount of money lost for the Sirius activation and those five hours I had to pay at the dealer for the unsuccessful global update.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Nope. I just lost Sirius. It was just a bad succession of events with Sirius on my car.
> 
> Dealer was supposed to activate Sirius on delivery, but did not and refused to do it (unless I paid for it) almost one year later when I found out I had to get the 1 year free. So in June 2012 I activated it through bimmer-tech, but lost it two months later when I retrofitted the NAV. I did not know I had the Sirius integrated in the HU and it was too late when I found out that the HU_CIC I bought did not have the Sirius module.
> 
> I made some bad choices, I know. Without being informed or just misled, I can say I did spend until now, in close to $4500.00 for this NAV which includes the amount of money lost for the Sirius activation and those five hours I had to pay at the dealer for the unsuccessful global update.


Man, that sucks. Are you using OEM FSC Codes in your new CIC, or a CAN Filter / Activator module?


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

OEM FSC Codes. I can see the entries when going with my VIN to the BMW's Aftersales Assistance Portal ASAP site.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> OEM FSC Codes. I can see the entries when going with my VIN to the BMW's Aftersales Assistance Portal ASAP site.


Well, you are better off this way. It's more expensive, but a better solution.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Well, I am back from the scheduled maintenance. Still no software update done even though I did swap the CIC and the screen with the original ones as they were asking the first time. Now the dealer complained that the update doesn't pass through all modules because some of them did not take the update and so they have to order a new vehicle order (whatever that means) to apply to the car, surely on my expense. Didn't even ask what the price will be and I just said no, leave like that. IMHO they just don't want to do it without getting some money out of it. Maybe is just me having some too high expectations... but I never heard someone else having issues with their dealer as I do. Maybe I should choose another dealer. I'll just have the update applied by Alex at bimmerretrofit.
The good thing is now the NAV works fine somehow. No KOMBI info and no popups on the iDrive screen though. I am sure these are easy to recode.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gicamuci said:


> Well, I am back from the scheduled maintenance. Still no software update done even though I did swap the CIC and the screen with the original ones as they were asking the first time. Now the dealer complained that the update doesn't pass through all modules because some of them did not take the update and so they have to order a new vehicle order (whatever that means) to apply to the car, surely on my expense. Didn't even ask what the price will be and I just said no, leave like that. IMHO they just don't want to do it without getting some money out of it. Maybe is just me having some too high expectations... but I never heard someone else having issues with their dealer as I do. Maybe I should choose another dealer. I'll just have the update applied by Alex at bimmerretrofit.
> The good thing is now the NAV works fine somehow. No KOMBI info and no popups on the iDrive screen though. I am sure these are easy to recode.


My guess is they suspect the VO was modifed and written to the car, so they are ordering your original VO from BMW Munich, with the intent of writing it back to the car and programming it based on it.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

*Deleted*


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Successfully recoded the arrow display in the KOMBI and on the split screen.
Now I am having the same issue with the Nav, most of the time showing my position way off on the map.
After giving it some thought, I think this is due to the fact that at the office my car is two floors underground almost every day and to get out, it takes more than 5 minutes. Could that be the problem of the Nav working this random. 

Is the following value related to the GPS positioning, or it is just for the BMW Assist:

COMBOX_MEDIA -> 3006 TELEMATIK -> GPS_POSITION_TIMEOUT -> 5_minuten/Werte=3C

I can increase it to FC which is 21 minutes as it is described in the Kommentar.


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

what's the drawback of the hardware activation?
i'm looking to replace my cic with nbt, but the price of fsc is holding me back...


shawnsheridan said:


> Well, you are better off this way. It's more expensive, but a better solution.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

I choose this path - FSC over hardware - cause I thought it will be more like a true BMW integration, so more reliable... What I can tell you is, if you will go for it, *make sure you get US hardware*. Not knowing it, I lost the Sirius tuner and the traffic for Navi - I ended up with an asian market CIC which on top of not having all that, is also unreliable. What I can tell is the kit I have is not really integrated in my car as an original one:
- no Sirius tuner anymore
- no traffic info on Navi (NA units have a second FM tuner just for that)
- unreliable positioning. Whenever I need it, I can't use it cause the position on map is way off (might be because, as I said, my car sits most of the time in a 2nd level underground parking. Sometimes works fine)

If I had known all these... then I don't think I would have paid that amount of money for just... well, having a 3 inch wider screen in the car. But that is not your case. You want to go from CIC to NBT, right ? My advice... don't do it.


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks for your advise. an off topic question, does traffic info ever work for you in Canada? I lived in Ottawa before and the traffic info on my previous Mercedes and Audi never worked for me, I know Ottawa is a small town and I took the car to Toronto and Montreal before, and it never worked. but as soon as I enter the US it started detour due to traffic incident.


gicamuci said:


> I choose this path - FSC over hardware - cause I thought it will be more like a true BMW integration, so more reliable... What I can tell you is, if you will go for it, *make sure you get US hardware*. Not knowing it, I lost the Sirius tuner and the traffic for Navi - I ended up with an asian market CIC which on top of not having all that, is also unreliable. What I can tell is the kit I have is not really integrated in my car as an original one:
> - no Sirius tuner anymore
> - no traffic info on Navi (NA units have a second FM tuner just for that)
> - unreliable positioning. Whenever I need it, I can't use it cause the position on map is way off (might be because, as I said, my car sits most of the time in a 2nd level underground parking. Sometimes works fine)
> ...


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Were your previous cars Canadian models ? Traffic Information (RTTI) was first available in some US model BMWs, sometime in 2007. BMW at least are saying somewhere on their Canadian site that the system in Canada is somehow similar with the one in Europe, meaning the info doesn't get to the car through some FM radio stations (as in US), but through BMW Assist, with updates at each 3 minutes intervals.
As I was saying my retrofitted CIC being a Korean build unit, intended for the some Asian market, doesn't have the second FM tuner nor the Sirius tuner. I have BMW Assist active, but I don't know yet how traffic info is delivered to the car. Might be an option that must be added to Assist maybe.
I didn't try it on the Merc yet.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

gicamuci said:


> Now I am having the same issue with the Nav, most of the time showing my position way off on the map.
> After giving it some thought, I think this is due to the fact that at the office my car is two floors underground almost every day and to get out, it takes more than 5 minutes. Could that be the problem of the Nav working this random.


Now I am 100% sure the Nav works this erratically because the car seats so much time underground at the office.
Since last Thursday afternoon, I left the car at home outside, in my driveway, until Monday morning when I had to go to the office. The Nav worked just fine. Didn't park it underground and went to check it at lunch time. Nav works fine.
If tomorrow I will start parking underground again, the Nav will place me again somewhere on the map where I am not.
I wonder if the Merc will have the same problem if I will apply it the same underground treatment.


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

Mine picks up pretty quick after I leave it underground overnight, it takes longer in NYC but never horrible, 10 mins max I would say.
Now does your car have nav from the factory? I had the same problem with my wife's vw with retrofitted nav and I hide the antenna under the dash, it takes forever to figure out the location. I moved the antenna to on top of the rear deck, problem solved.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Yes it is a retrofitted Nav and the antenna I keep it where the dash meets the windshield corner on passenger side. I can try moving it to the rear deck.


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah, In diagnostics screen on the vw it shows 2-3 satellite with the antenna under the dash, the nav is calculating the location based on speed and steering angle, when you go to underground or high rise parking your wheels actually travel longer than the distance really travelled due to the slope, so the calculated location is off.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

My service menu in iDrive is useless for checking the GPS status as regardless of Nav working or not, it says "No GPS available", Visible SATs=14, Almanach=0. When going into the GPS version, for both hardware and softwre it shows an empty field. Only in "Sensor test" I can see activity and usually when I do have a GPS fix there is no Altitude (which is available when the fix is on 3 SATs or more)


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

what antenna do you have? not sure if this is relevant but i've seen bad antenna causing issue.
here is what currently on my vw
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPS-Antenna...950065478?pt=GPS_Antennas&hash=item35c5b25546


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Mine doesn't have rounded corners like yours and it just says GPS on it. The one you have I see it is a Garmin one. Mine I guess it is a generic brand antenna. I will try first to move it to the rear deck to see how it works. You could be right, maybe the windshield has something in it that filters radio waves so the signal isn't as strong as it should be. I am seriously considering buying the GPS antenna from bimmer-tech even though the price of it plus S&H plus customs it will get the price close to $250.00 for me. Hopefully it will work on the rear deck. I will try then an eBay one before going to bimmer-tech.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

After some more reading, it seems that the shark fin antenna on the roof on F10s without factory NAV but with BMW Assist, does have a GPS antenna going to the Combox module for BMW Assist (which is active in my car). 
I also read a thread were Patrick, from bimmer-tech, retrofitted a NAV system into an F10 and using this exact GPS antenna through an extension cord going between the CIC and Combox in the trunk.
I am also sure that there was some coding involved so all modules will pull their GPS needs from the CIC and not from Combox anymore.
I am now sure that the modules in my car are really having a hard time finding what they need in regards to the GPS signal.
Am I right or wrong here ? In the event I am right, what coding to what modules I will need to apply, to have this corrected ?


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

I'd get an extension cable on evay and then vo code the 2 related module and see how it goes.


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## gicamuci (Sep 5, 2011)

Well...I am posting this for people like me, having a retrofit Nav with an improper antenna. I should mention that until now I never had a 3D fix in the service menu and when position was displayed (in split screen) the altitude was 0 all the time. Most often I could not use the Nav cause it will just show a wrong location.

I just completed the antenna cable install and here is what I used/did in order to make use of the existing roof antenna for the head unit.

Just to be comfortable I used a 6m (~19.5 feet) antenna extension cable with Fakra male code Z one end and female code Z the other end (both of them, water blue).
I have BMW Assist active so to keep it happy I did reuse and install the mini GPS active antenna that came with my retrofit kit. You will need one with Fakra female code H (violet) but you can modify the male one on the combox to accept the code B (signal blue). Or better yet, you can use one with Fakra female code Z. 1m to 2m (3 to 6 feet) cable is enough cause it will stay in the trunk or like I choose to have it just under the rear deck where the middle mounting point for child restraint fixing system is (using it as well as a fishing point for the wire to pass it in the trunk) so the antenna will live under that plastic cover (green arrow in the image).
For reference I added the Combox connectors designation and images for what the mini antenna and extension cable looks like. An image with the track I choose to pass the cable from the Combox to the head unit. Finally a picture I took of my Combox just before starting, showing the original connections.


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

Hi Sir
I read this web page has very long time.This is my first time to ask questions. I need everyone's help.
I have one 609 CIC and 8.8"CID, CIC within have one Navigation and map is European versions, it's bought second hand of the ebay, 
I want to Retrofit CIC to my car of F25, My car old Cic only DVD and original language is Chinesisch_trad. now, I'm not well-prepare to set up Navigation and map for Taiwan versions.
I make use of E-sys 3.18.4 and Psdz Bate 47.5 software modified the VO, added 609 only and wrote it to the car, and change HU_CIC language; but show a blank menu . than I read the FSC status found 2 ECU. How to do next?

KOMBI -> 3008 PIA_Einheiten -> Funktionen -> Sprache -> china_traditionell / werte 09
HU_CICHB -> 3000 HMI -> Funktionen -> LANGUAGE_MASTER -> chinesisch_trad / werte 0A
HU_CICHB -> 3000 HMI -> Funktionen -> LANGUAGE_1 -> chinesisch_simp / werte 0B
HU_CICHB -> 3000 HMI -> Funktionen -> LANGUAGE_2 -> chinesisch_trad / werte 0A
HU_CIC HB-> 3000 HMI -> Funktionen -> LANGUAGE_3 -> english_uk / werte 02
HU_CIC HB-> 3000 HMI -> Funktionen -> LANGUAGE_4 to 16- -> nicht_akyiv wette 00

--> Read the state from "2" ECU(s) <--

EPS[DiagAddress=48]
WBAWY310700A*****<---My car 
RootCertStatus not available
SigSCertStatus not available
SWSigStatus accepted
SWTApplications 
----------
AppID 131
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic light
FSCStatus accepted
FSCCertStatus not available

HU_CIC[DiagAddress=99]
WBAWY310000A4****--->new CIC
RootCertStatus accepted
SigSCertStatus accepted
SWSigStatus accepted
SWTApplications 
----------
AppID 23 <-- My car without Voice Recognition.
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------
AppID 25
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------

AppID 27
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------
AppID 111 
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------
AppID 156 
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------
AppID 155 
UpgradeIndex 1
SWTType SWTclassic full
FSCStatus not available
FSCCertStatus accepted
----------
AppID 40
UpgradeIndex 4
SWTType SWTshort
FSCStatus rejected
FSCCertStatus not available

-->


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ye541 said:


> Hi Sir
> I read this web page has very long time.This is my first time to ask questions. I need everyone's help.
> I have one 609 CIC and 8.8"CID, CIC within have one Navigation and map is European versions, it's bought second hand of the ebay,
> I want to Retrofit CIC to my car of F25, My car old Cic only DVD and original language is Chinesisch_trad. now, I'm not well-prepare to set up Navigation and map for Taiwan versions.
> ...


Your used CIC has VIN from donor car and the donor car FSC Codes. You need to either flash the CIC and write car VIN to it and buy all new OEM FSC Codes with your VIN, or use an Emulator or PnP Activator module like these:

http://www.codecard.lt/emu-packs/th...nd-tvfree-modification-emulator/prod_893.html

https://www.bimmer-tech.net/shop/bm...trofits/cic-pnp-activation-module?keyword=Pnp

http://bimmerretrofit.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=72

The FSC Codes for Navigation and Voice Recognition are different for Chinese too if you want Chinese for them:

19 - Navigation Application (ECE / U.S.)
17 - Voice Recognition ((ECE / U.S.)
27 - Navigation Application (Asia)
43 - Voice Recognition (Asia)

For CIC language in Chinese, I think you need to add S866A Language version, Chinese simpl. / trad. Chinese to your FA, and then VO Code CIC.


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## Nison (Jul 21, 2012)

I coded a 2013 with NBT to support Chinese, no need to change VO. It make me think the CIC based car doesn't have the Chinese Support file on the hard drive 


shawnsheridan said:


> Your used CIC has VIN from donor car and the donor car FSC Codes. You need to either flash the CIC and write car VIN to it and buy all new OEM FSC Codes with your VIN, or use an Emulator or PnP Activator module like these:
> 
> http://www.codecard.lt/emu-packs/th...nd-tvfree-modification-emulator/prod_893.html
> 
> ...


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

Hi Shawn,
thank you so much for answering my questions,thank again.
But, I am finish to add S866A Language version, Chinese simpl / trad in FA, and then VO Code CIC.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ye541 said:


> Hi Shawn,
> thank you so much for answering my questions,thank again.
> But, I am finish to add S866A Language version, Chinese simpl / trad in FA, and then VO Code CIC.


What does that mean? Are you saying you added 866 to your VO and VO Coded (not FDL Coded) HU_CIC, and it did not work?


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank you for your continued patronage.
yes, I added 866 to VO and VO Coded HU_CIC, but it not work, show a blank menu only. picture link here
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380972&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1370793399
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380973&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1370793399


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## bzzjh (May 30, 2013)

Hi,Nison 
Could tell me how to code the 2013 nbt english language to chinese(include navigation and voice recognition),Thanks your support.


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## bzzjh (May 30, 2013)

ye541 said:


> Thank you for your continued patronage.
> yes, I added 866 to VO and VO Coded HU_CIC, but it not work, show a blank menu only. picture link here
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380972&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1370793399
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380973&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1370793399


HI,ye541
can you PM me your MSN or skype,I want to and you talk about the problem you said,Because I also met the same problem


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

ye541 said:


> Thank you for your continued patronage.
> yes, I added 866 to VO and VO Coded HU_CIC, but it not work, show a blank menu only. picture link here
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380972&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1370793399
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=380973&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1370793399


Sorry again, 
The 866 is original in the VO, I only added 609 to VO and VO Coded HU_CIC, but CID show a blank menu only.


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## bzzjh (May 30, 2013)

ye541 said:


> Sorry again,
> The 866 is original in the VO, I only added 609 to VO and VO Coded HU_CIC, but CID show a blank menu only.


Hi,ye541
Maybe only modify the following:
KOMBI -> 3008 PIA_Einheiten -> Funktionen -> Sprache -> china_traditionell / werte 09
Please check here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7278779&postcount=18


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

yes, I already checked, KOMBI -> 3008 PIA_Einheiten -> Funktionen -> Sprache -> china_traditionell / werte 09
But,it is no avail.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ye541 said:


> Sorry again,
> The 866 is original in the VO, I only added 609 to VO and VO Coded HU_CIC, but CID show a blank menu only.


I don't think you can do any Language coding until you first fix your FSC Code problem.

Also, and I am just guessing in this, the unit may need to be flashed using FA with 866 in it.


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

Hi sir,
Actuality, in my car the instrument can show chinesisch_simp /_trad font and English font, and the CID menu can to do choose, but no show any language font.
Are you think CIC need Chinese font setup, or CIC need FSC driver it or CIC need input these font?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ye541 said:


> Hi sir,
> Actuality, in my car the instrument can show chinesisch_simp /_trad font and English font, and the CID menu can to do choose, but no show any language font.
> Are you think CIC need Chinese font setup, or CIC need FSC driver it or CIC need input these font?


I am thinking the CIC Chinese Font is not installed on CIC hard drive, and that maybe flashing CIC with 866 in FA may add it. This is pure speculation though.


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

Maybe I need check flashing steps again. Are you have flashing details?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ye541 said:


> Maybe I need check flashing steps again. Are you have flashing details?


PM sent.


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## ye541 (Jun 9, 2013)

Thank your PM.
Actuality, I use E-sys 3.18.4 and Psdz Bate 47.5 software, 
I will to try E-Sys 3.22.5, Are you have E-Sys 3.22.5 download link?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ye541 said:


> Thank your PM.
> Actuality, I use E-sys 3.18.4 and Psdz Bate 47.5 software,
> I will to try E-Sys 3.22.5, Are you have E-Sys 3.22.5 download link?


PM sent.

Without a token, you can do everything (VO Code, Flash, etc.) except FDL Code, so you do not need to worry about that for what you need to do here.


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## tankren (Oct 21, 2012)

Dear shawn, 
one problem and need you help and suggestion. I want to retrofit my HU_entry(without MOST) to an alpine HU(not sure about the hierarchy,with MOST and combox built-in, no Navi), it's cheap and used, with old VIN in it.:dunno:
Some guys have retrofit it and it runs, bluetooth call works but the USB can't. 
Could you help me to figure out where the problem is? In theory, USB do not need a FSC to active. thx very much and wait for your kind reply



shawnsheridan said:


> Your used CIC has VIN from donor car and the donor car FSC Codes. You need to either flash the CIC and write car VIN to it and buy all new OEM FSC Codes with your VIN, or use an Emulator or PnP Activator module like these:
> 
> http://www.codecard.lt/emu-packs/th...nd-tvfree-modification-emulator/prod_893.html
> 
> ...


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

tankren said:


> Dear shawn,
> one problem and need you help and suggestion. I want to retrofit my HU_entry(without MOST) to an alpine HU(not sure about the hierarchy,with MOST and combox built-in, no Navi), it's cheap and used, with old VIN in it.:dunno:
> Some guys have retrofit it and it runs, bluetooth call works but the USB can't.
> Could you help me to figure out where the problem is? In theory, USB do not need a FSC to active. thx very much and wait for your kind reply


I have no idea really. Do you have 6FL USB Port now working with with your HU_Entry?


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## tankren (Oct 21, 2012)

shawnsheridan said:


> I have no idea really. Do you have 6FL USB Port now working with with your HU_Entry?


actually not, just a cd player, no usb, no bluetooth.
I just wanna know that, the VIN in the secondhand cic mismatches the real VIN in my car, would cause any problem? e.g: USB function
thx for your reply, much appreciate

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## tankren (Oct 21, 2012)

shawnsheridan said:


> PM sent.


hi shawn, I want the Flash guide too, thx

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

tankren said:


> actually not, just a cd player, no usb, no bluetooth.
> I just wanna know that, the VIN in the secondhand cic mismatches the real VIN in my car, would cause any problem? e.g: USB function
> thx for your reply, much appreciate
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


I can't imagine why it would. The mismatched VIN's only affects functions needing FSC Codes, and 6FL USB Port does not need FSC Code.


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## tankren (Oct 21, 2012)

shawnsheridan said:


> I can't imagine why it would. The mismatched VIN's only affects functions needing FSC Codes, and 6FL USB Port does not need FSC Code.


So that's really weird, whatever, can I write my VIN into the HU and try to get the USB works? or can I flash the HU Ecu and the VIN would be rewritten at the same time? 
thx


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

tankren said:


> So that's really weird, whatever, can I write my VIN into the HU and try to get the USB works? or can I flash the HU Ecu and the VIN would be rewritten at the same time?
> thx


I think during flashing, VO VIN should be written to head unit. I have provided instructions for doing so in your other post.


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## tankren (Oct 21, 2012)

shawnsheridan said:


> I think during flashing, VO VIN should be written to head unit. I have provided instructions for doing so in your other post.


thx shawn, you are always so kind, much much appreciation

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Sprollonis (Aug 14, 2013)

*CIC Can Emulator*

Hello,

do

http://www.codecard.lt/emu-packs/th...nd-tvfree-modification-emulator/prod_893.html

this CIC-Emulator fit to my F25 too - or do I need another one.

Thanks a lot

Sprollonis


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Sprollonis said:


> Hello,
> 
> do
> 
> ...


You will have to ask CodeCard if it will also work with Fxx (F25) CIC.

You may need something like this Hardware Activation Module, which is better anyway in that it in Plug-N-Play, and you do not have to solder PCB into Head Unit:

http://www.bimmer-tech.net/shop/bmw.../cic-pnp-activation-module?keyword=activation


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## Sprollonis (Aug 14, 2013)

*...I will do it that way.*

Hello shansheridan,

you are really a nice guy - always looking where help is needed and giving a competent and helpfull answers! I really appreciate such behaviour. A special "Thank you" for you 

Thanks a lot for your recommendations.

I have just ordered:

http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/260282069.html

and

http://www.ebay.de/itm/110854553056?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

not to cut original wires. Will come back, when installed wether it works or not!
The solution is less than 100 bugs. Hope it will work.

Do you know how to release seperate pins of the quadlock connector to fully integrate Can-Blocker and where to buy spare part pins.

Sprollonis


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Sprollonis said:


> Hello shansheridan,
> 
> you are really a nice guy - always looking where help is needed and giving a competent and helpfull answers! I really appreciate such behaviour. A special "Thank you" for you
> 
> ...


Very nice. $79 for the Emulator, and 14€ for the Quadlock. 

For the Emulator, this puzzles me though:

F1x NBT
F2x F3x CIC

I don't know why it wouldn't also work for F1x CIC, or F2x F3x NBT. 

And the Quadlock for some reason doesn't list any BMW Fxx chassis. 

So, yes, please let us know how it works for you, and detail how you installed it.

I can't help you on the Quadlock and Spare Pins. I have never installed one before.


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