# WTF, Roundel has an article on DUBS!?!



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Ok I don't get it.

Past attempts at getting Roundel to take an interest in the Bimmerfest event in Santa Barbara were met with a gruff "why would this be of any interest to Roundel readers" type response. Meets, esp. meets with roots in Internet message boards have always been uninteresting to Roundel. Yet, attempts were made year after year by members of this board to try and get Roundel to warm up to this event. From what I'm told, Satch even ATTENDED Bimmerfest 2005, and seemed to enjoy himself. So, there was a ray of hope.

Yet this year, like every other year that there has been a Bimmerfest event, when it came time for articles, even well-written articles submitted by one of our esteemed Fest moderators, there was sudden radio silence. 6 months later, we can safely assume that while Satch had a great time, the event was still not interesting enough to print an article about it.

So it was to my great surprise that I open my Roundel today to find that, while articles about bringing together generations of BMW is of no interest, it's apparently worthwhile to print an 8 page article on dubs?! 

I don't get it. 

What about the Bimmerfest event is so patently offensive that the editors can't seem to take any interest? And what is it about dubs that is apparently of such great reader interest?

I pitched my latest Roundel in the trash. Apparently I am not their target audience. The guy driving the E65 with the dubs is.


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## Pete Teoh (Jan 27, 2002)

I suspect the indifference is a concious effort not to pull attention away from BMW CCA's own Oktoberfest event.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Pete Teoh said:


> I suspect the indifference is a concious effort not to pull attention away from BMW CCA's own Oktoberfest event.


Except Bimmerfest is held in the Spring... hardly competition. It just doesn't make any sense.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

Don't be a h8ter, y0! :tsk:


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## 01silber (Jun 28, 2002)

roundel is turning into a roadfly type mag fast, I havent seen the "dubs" article but I can only imagine... hell ,z3 homecoming pulls in almost a thousand people but I think I have seen one story and it was about a page and half at most........
but we can always count on a story about dinan :tsk:


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## fm_illuminatus (Jun 13, 2005)

Sounds like roundel is losing touch with the community.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

Article is about Dub culture: wheels, mobile electronics, bodykits etc. Most of the pix are wheels. Sort of a shout to the E46 Fanatics crowd ... whom I'm sure we love this.

Write another Letter to the Editor.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

ObD said:


> Write another Letter to the Editor.


I'll have to fish my issue out of the trash first.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

01silber said:


> but we can always count on a story about dinan :tsk:


This month: Dinan Z4 

And I agree about the BM-Dubs article, why?


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## 01silber (Jun 28, 2002)

WILLIA///M said:


> This month: Dinan Z4
> ?


are you serious? If so I know that Steve D is pumping someones pockets full of money...
Im smart enough to know that atleast in the Z3 line it is a past model, but as far as a community goes; it is a very big group of enthusiasts** and community


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## DaKine (Aug 17, 2005)

Well DUH! Dinan is the best thing ever, right? Isn't it? Come on guys! I thought it was the best stuff you could ever bolt onto a car, right??????


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

alee said:


> I'll have to fish my issue out of the trash first.


Don't be hatin' on 'dem dubs, dub deuces, and jordans on dem whips yo.... 'dey can give yo' hooptie a run for its cheddar when 'dey be hoppin down the streetz... so step....  :rofl: werd....


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## DaveH (Sep 25, 2003)

Ja! Dubs...
Scheiße, das ist Baden-Baden!
Faschiziel, mein Nitsziel! Homie..

:str8pimpi


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

Did anyone else catch the dis against the 'fest? I think it was in the article on the 5er gathering...when I get home I will doublecheck...


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Its just another step in the total Lexus-fication of the BMW brand. :tsk:


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## lil' poppa (Oct 27, 2004)

hockeynut said:


> Did anyone else catch the dis against the 'fest? I think it was in the article on the 5er gathering...when I get home I will doublecheck...


Page 44 or thereabouts. Bimmerfest is all about sound systems, wings, and intakes, according to the brief reference in the article in question. Not that a person riding on "dubs" would ever care about sound systems or wings...


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

lil' poppa said:


> Bimmerfest is all about sound systems, wings, and intakes, according to the brief reference in the article in question. Not that a person riding on "dubs" would ever care about sound systems or wings...


I know this really isn't what Bimmerfest is about, but if the event was my first exposure to Bimmerfest at all and had no idea what Bimmerfest was... I'd probably have the same impression based on the cars I saw last time.


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

DaveH said:


> Ja! Dubs...
> Scheiße, das ist Baden-Baden!
> Faschiziel, mein Nitsziel! Homie..
> 
> :str8pimpi


 :rofl: noyce.


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## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

doeboy said:


> Don't be hatin' on 'dem dubs, dub deuces, and jordans on dem whips yo.... 'dey can give yo' hooptie a run for its cheddar when 'dey be hoppin down the streetz... so step....  :rofl: werd....


Stay tuned, Bimmerphiles, for the "This Roundel Brought To You Courtesy Of West Coast Customs: Let Us "Pimp Your Ride!" :yikes:  :eeps: \

I've been having a running argument with my teenage sons as to my outrage, shock, dismay and lamentation regarding one episode of the aforementioned "Pimp My Ride" where a lowly Ford (I believe) was Pimped into something that one was supposed to believe asymptotically approached a BMW  :thumbdwn: :flush: : puke:

For the money they spent on that Ford, they could have *bought* the girl a *real* 325i!

Of course, my teenagers thought it was cool :tsk:


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Uh, for the uninitiated, what are "dubs"?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Uh, for the uninitiated, what are "dubs"?


slang term for 20" wheels... according to the thing in the Roundel the term started from the drug world where a certain size bag of weed cost about $20 so they were called "dubs" and that reference to 20 crossed over to refer to wheel diameter. I was thinking... "oh great... drug references... yippee..."


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

I saw and pretended not to see. And I refuse to refer to 20"+'s using the "D" word.

Bimmerfest got me into the car club in the first place, so they can go rot.

The article on car control had a picture of the Skippy formula car I drove (#86  ) It's with that saving grace that I might actually look at the mag again....emphasize _might_. *sigh*


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## Satch (Oct 13, 2005)

*On Roundel and Bimmerfest*

I'm not sure how to go about this forum business, so please bear with me. The question has to do with _Roundel's _ coverage (or not) of Bimmerfest. I myself checked out Bimmerfest last Spring in hopes of including at least a brief story. . . but what with crazed maniacs smokin' they tires and others running each other off the road---or so I was told---it seems to me that the event reinforced what CCA is all about---structures and boring responsibility.

Remember that _Roundel _ is the magazine of the CCA. There is no reason NOT to cover Bimmerfest if it could be associated with a SoCal chapter or something. Perhaps I am a bit of a fossil, but the liability issues surrounding such an unaffiliated event kind of scare me. I found out years ago that if I volunteer to, say, work a checkpoint for a TSD rally, and somebody runs over somebody's else's dog/grandmother/navigator on the event, the ensuing lawyers are turned loose on EVERYbody. That's why I thought about CCA's liability policies that cover chapter officers and volunteers---that part is especially important---for CCA events when I was at Bimmerfest, which seemed to be beyond anybody's immediate control. But perhaps that's part of its charm.

As for other comments on the current _Roundel _ issue: Yes, we had a story on "BMW Bling." I don't think it hurts to know what other sects are doing now and then. I am not sure the lambo-door crowd is any less passionate about their cars than the E30 M3 fanatics or even the concours crowd.

I do think the Club itself is evolving. . . as the marque itself evolves. While there were still a few 2002s at O'Fest, I saw X3s and new Fivers there for the first time, too. Even met a few members whose hair isn't gray.

It seems to me that with the writing skills shown on this forum, there ought to be somebody who could provide a decent report on the next Bimmerfest, but I couldn't find a solid story line at the last one. At Oktoberfest, there's a week of competitions, so you have those stories; you have registration numbers so you can (usually) tell who's in the photos; it's generally organized in a fashion that supports a chronological narrative. I had some trouble figuring out the focus of Bimmerfest (but then, I tend to be too linear). I'm sure you have a better idea than I what "the story of Bimmerfest" should be.

But I don't understand the hostility that seems to underly so many of these messages. Jeez, I'm sorry about the "dubs" story, but it had some stuff in it that I never knew, so I thought others might be interested. I hope you found something else in that issue that was useful, informative, or at least entertaining. Terry Shea, who wrote the dubs article, has followed up with everything you wanted to know about gasoline, by the way. Maybe that's his punishment!

Satch Carlson

PS: By the way, why the slams on Steve Dinan? Didn't he drive the supercharged M5 down to SoCal just to display it for Bimmerfest---along with the Finlay prototype with the Dinan racing engine? And spend the day talking to anybody who wanted to chat?


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

Satch said:


> I myself checked out Bimmerfest last Spring in hopes of including at least a brief story. . . but what with crazed maniacs smokin' they tires and others running each other off the road---or so I was told---it seems to me that the event reinforced what CCA is all about---structures and boring responsibility.


Say what???? How do "crazed maniacs smokin tires and running each other off the road" imply "structures and boring responsibility"???? What it says to me is "lack of responsibility" on the part of those "crazed maniacs". And Bimmerfest wasn't always thus. If that is what you later describe as the "evolution of the club and the marque", then we are in trouble, but then all of the marques are being influenced, not necessarily for the better in my opinion, by the "bling for bling's sake" crowd.



Satch said:


> Remember that _Roundel _ is the magazine of the CCA. There is no reason NOT to cover Bimmerfest


Then why have we not seen any decent coverage of it??



Satch said:


> if it could be associated with a SoCal chapter or something.


 Why must it be associated specifically with a SoCal (or any other) chapter? It is a BMW event, run by a BMW dealer, for BMW enthusiasts, many (or most) of whom are already CCA members. And those that are not might be induced to join if they saw any benefit to being a CCA member. But when the Roundel completely ignores the event for seemingly inane reasons, they see no benefit to being a member.



Satch said:


> Perhaps I am a bit of a fossil, but the liability issues surrounding such an unaffiliated event kind of scare me. I found out years ago that if I volunteer to, say, work a checkpoint for a TSD rally, and somebody runs over somebody's else's dog/grandmother/navigator on the event, the ensuing lawyers are turned loose on EVERYbody. That's why I thought about CCA's liability policies that cover chapter officers and volunteers---that part is especially important---for CCA events when I was at Bimmerfest, which seemed to be beyond anybody's immediate control. But perhaps that's part of its charm.


The entire issue of liability is an important one, but this was not a CCA event, so claiming CCA liability issues around it makes no sense.



Stach said:


> PS: By the way, why the slams on Steve Dinan? Didn't he drive the supercharged M5 down to SoCal just to display it for Bimmerfest---along with the Finlay prototype with the Dinan racing engine? And spend the day talking to anybody who wanted to chat?


We must not be reading the same posts, as I read that post as saying that the idea that Bimmerfest was about "wings and sound systems and other blingage" was an afront to the actual purpose of the event and that it ignored the fact that Steve and the Dinan folks and Will Turner and the Finlay prototype were there when they should have been mentioned prominently in the article as representing the true purpose of the the 'Fest. That is, it was a slam on the article for not mentioning them rather than a slam on them.


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## DaKine (Aug 17, 2005)

Thanks for the reply, Satch. 

This is all my opinion, and I am not trying to speak for the majority here. It just seems like the magazine market is already so saturated with articles about things like Dubs. Every Ricer magazine in the country focuses on that garbage; they're a dime a dozen. BMWs are supposed to be geared twords preformance related driving; I don't see the preformance related benefits of rolling around town on 22" rims. I understand that there are some BMW drivers who want to try and roll like some sort of rap-star; but like I said, there are already 1,000 magazines out there that can cater to them. In my opinion, a majority of (mature) BMW drivers want a publication that allows them to escape the BS of the 16 year old, "I'm gonna get a bodykit and drive like Vin-Diesel did in 'The Fast and The Furious'" mentality. 

I don't think anyone has anything personal againsed Dinan; it just seems like there are a lot of other preformance related products that are better and less expensive than Dinan, but never seem to get the publicity that Dinan products do. 

As for a story idea about HC... I really can't say beacuse I am yet to attend. I do know there are a lot of people who make a long drive to attend, and I think it might be cool to get some of the more literate, interesting characters together for some kind of a collaborative photo-essay "sharing my experience" deal. I know a lot of surfing magazines will have features like that. A group of surfers get together, go to some exotic, foreign surf spots, and share their photos/stories. A lot of times, getting there is half the fun. All of them have different experiences, but the passion for their sport and the journeys they have for some good reading/photography.

Thats just my .02, but it was cool of you to take the time to respond. Take care :thumbup:


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

doeboy said:


> slang term for 20" wheels... according to the thing in the Roundel the term started from the drug world where a certain size bag of weed cost about $20 so they were called "dubs" and that reference to 20 crossed over to refer to wheel diameter. I was thinking... "oh great... drug references... yippee..."


 Also, from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dub_%28wheel%29):



> A *dub* is a wheel or rim that is 20" in size (The term "dub" was derived as a slang term for twenty, from "double dime" or two tens.) Some can be chrome or polished aluminum-alloy. "Dub two"'s are 22" wheels or rims styled similar to standard "dubs". "Dub fo"'s are 24" wheels or rims styled similar to "Dub two"'s" or standard "dubs". Rims that are below 20 inches in diameter are aptly referred to as "sub-dubs".


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## Satch (Oct 13, 2005)

*Where were we?*

Um. . . I'm not making myself understood very well---not an uncommon problem with me! The liability issues reminded me that Bimmerfest is NOT a CCA event. I'm sure you COULD make it a CCA event if you wanted. . . but I'm not sure how it would be categorized. . . car show? Anyway, it was the wild paint jobs and lambo doors at Bimmerfest that convinced me it might be time for an article on "alternative" BMW lifestyles! But I personally agree with whoever said BMWs are about driving, not bling. . .

. . . or stereo systems. . .

. . . or bluetooth phones. . .

There is another interesting point---_Roundel _ coverage of a non-CCA event. Yes, we do some of this. . . but I think the horse is behind the cart when I hear, "You won't cover our non-club event, so we won't join yer stinkin' club." The problem may have to do with the size of the club---70,000 members---versus the activities of special-interest groups. What the current board is doing is an attempt to change the bylaws so they can look at new ways of defining chapters. Right now it's all geography---LA chapter, San Diego, etc etc etc---but it seems to me that a CLUB (and every chapter is supposed to be a club, is it not?) may have something to do with a more focused passion.

It was not so when the total marque for the US consisted of 2002s and a few Big Sixes. Now we have everything from 02s to X3s to Z4s to---well, get ready for the BMW minivan. And every sect seems to believe that they are the True Believers of the BMW cult. So it might make more sense to grant chapter status to group bound by some other factor than area code.

Chapter status for The Group Who Live For Bimmerfest, for example, would provide insurance. . .

Now, that's just an off-the-wall example; I don't think Bimmerfest is the passion, I think it's an event put together by people with a common passion. But why COULDN'T it be a chapter production? Even the 8 Series group gets together with a chapter when they want to put on an event, no doubt for the insurance reasons, even though they as a group probably feel rather remote from the mainstream of CCA.

Anyway---thanks for your comments. I'm under hellish deadline this week, but I'll try to check back in next week when I can breathe again.

SC


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

DaKine said:


> it was cool of you to take the time to respond. Take care :thumbup:


:stupid:


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Satch,

Thanks for posting here. You've helped restore my faith in CCA and Roundel. From reading your responses to readers in Roundel, and sometimes from your articles, I'd formed the impression that you were a bit aloof, and maybe sort of arrogant. By posting here in a non-defensive manner with your rationale, I realize that my impression may have been off-base. For what its worth, I appreciate the diversity of stories and viewpoints that Roundel tries to bring. IN an average issue, we get everything from crusty 2002 owners to bimmer blingers to performance nuts, etc. I find it interesting to be exposed to these different ideas and viewpoints. I think the worry expressed in this thread is that Roundel might start covering too many "bling" stories; and that while bingers are definitely an ownershp contingent, there are plenty of other outlets for them. Still, I think its interesting to occasionally have stories from that ownership segment. Personally, my favorite parts of the magazine are techtalk and the letters section (but that's probably obvious given that I like reading car-related internet forums). As BMW ownership continues to expand and diversify, I expect there will be even more tension surrounding the contents of our monthly magazine. I hope that it continues to try and bring a diverse set of views.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

I think we've learned a few good ideas about the organization of the Bimmerfest event. 

1)Cooperation with the CCA and an understanding of what section of the event can be considered a 'CCA chapter event' could be key to coverage. I get the distinct impression there is no way in [email protected] CCA would associate themselves with the road rally. Perhaps they would sanction (and cover) a BMW CCA Bimmerfest car show. 
2)Lambo doors have their place. It may not be "best of show." 
3)How about a small, mandatory registration including one entry into the raffle. All proceeds to charity.
4)Registration allows your vote in 'people's choice.' All hail the dubs.
5)Finding and maintaining the spirit of Bimmerfest in the midst of this structure may require real thought. Real time. Real drive. The byline of Bimmerfest: "Bringing the BMW community together" is a true opportunity here. We have two distinctly different mediums with the same very similar purpose. 

I am also impressed to see such patient replies from a representative of the CCA. Perhaps Bimmerfest owners can use this as a springboard for an open dialogue. From that dialogue, both sides can decide if they want to associate with one another on a deeper level.

Proud CCA member 661xx.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

Satch said:


> So it might make more sense to grant chapter status to group bound by some other factor than area code.


This is about the most exciting thing I have heard from the CCA in nearly 20 years! Finally! :thumbup:


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

Satch said:


> Anyway, it was the wild paint jobs and lambo doors at Bimmerfest that convinced me it might be time for an article on "alternative" BMW lifestyles! But I personally agree with whoever said BMWs are about driving...


Satch,
My eyes deceive me twice this year. First seeing your presence at Bimmerfest and now on Bimmerfest.com! What's this world coming to? :dunno: 

Just to set the record straight, don't everyone hammer on Mr. Carlson. I actually contacted him before Bimmerfest and asked him about CCA's participation in Bimmerfest. Our Pacific rep was contacted and not sure what happened with that, but I think Satch summed it up in regards to the liability issues. The club would need to take care of those issues before going headfirst into participation. As for coverage... who here can write a decent article on the goings on? I say we vote someone to the task. :thumbup:

- Sergio


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

SergioK said:


> As for coverage... who here can write a decent article on the goings on? I say we vote someone to the task. :thumbup:


KrisL wrote a great article about Bimmerfest 2005 and submitted it to Roundel.


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

SergioK said:


> Satch,
> My eyes deceive me twice this year. First seeing your presence at Bimmerfest and now on Bimmerfest.com! What's this world coming to? :dunno:
> 
> Just to set the record straight, don't everyone hammer on Mr. Carlson. I actually contacted him before Bimmerfest and asked him about CCA's participation in Bimmerfest. Our Pacific rep was contacted and not sure what happened with that, but I think Satch summed it up in regards to the liability issues. The club would need to take care of those issues before going headfirst into participation. As for coverage... who here can write a decent article on the goings on? I say we vote someone to the task. :thumbup:
> ...


I'm not trying to hammer him, but there is something that I don't get that perhaps someone can explain. Why does the Bimmerfest event have to be something that is CCA santioned/insured/etc. just to be able to have someone, either on staff or freelance, write an article about it that actually gets in to the Roundel? I think that is what the original posters were complaining about. If the only way a staff person can do it is to have the event sanctioned, and the CCA does not want to sanction it (for whatever reason), then why can't they accept a freelance author's writeup for publication? I think all that matters is that an event of interest to a goodly number of BMW owners/enthusiasts/vendors gets some coverage.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

PropellerHead said:


> I think we've learned a few good ideas about the organization of the Bimmerfest event.
> 
> 1)Cooperation with the CCA and an understanding of what section of the event can be considered a 'CCA chapter event' could be key to coverage. I get the distinct impression there is no way in [email protected] CCA would associate themselves with the road rally. Perhaps they would sanction (and cover) a BMW CCA Bimmerfest car show.
> 2)Lambo doors have their place. It may not be "best of show."
> ...


It's funny, but I was standing talking with Steve Dinan when we pulled
the now infamous "Lambo Door" car into the showroom. No disrespect
to Mr. Dinan, but he clearly not impressed with it. I'm sure that his perception
must have bounced off of (and resonated with) Satch... 

Honestly, I looked at every car on display myself, and there was I think only
one other BMW with similar doors (out of approx. 1,000). The fact that a
Lambo-door car won best-of-show sounds to be the triggerpoint for
what must be considered the flashpoint for a rather harsh generalization.
Now, here's the kicker: the judges (to now remain nameless) are lifetime
card-carrying BMWCCA stalwarts and respected members of the automotive
press.

Btw, I was personally ecstatic to have both Steve Dinan and Satch in the
flesh at Bimmerfest, and I hope to see them again next year (pssst. Saturday,
April 8th 2006 -- Earl Warren Showgrounds). We have in the past worked to
partner up with BMWCCA but things never seemed to come completely
together. We are currently working on other joint ventures, and 
wholeheartedly hope that we can make it fly / get together on them.
As far as the liability issue goes (viz. The Bimmerfest Road Rally), we do not
plan on having one next year, so the concern there has now been officially
extinguished...


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

alee said:


> KrisL wrote a great article about Bimmerfest 2005 and submitted it to Roundel.


I didn't know that but I know his work is :thumbup: .


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

Plaz said:


> :stupid:


 :stupid::stupid:


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Satch,

First of all, welcome to Bimmerfest. It does restore some faith to know that regardless of how you found out about my original post, you do obviously care about what members think. Moreover your participation here, no matter how brief, is a sign that the CCA cares as well.

The intentions of my original post wasn't to slam the CCA. The root of my gripes are that the CCA has not grown up with the BMW community. Specifically, the CCA seems to have a problem recognizing that there is a larger "super-group" of CCA members who carry the spirit of the car club on a global level, through the Internet. The failure to acknowledge certain "groups", whether CCA endorsed or not, is a shortcoming I'd like to see resolved.

Let's use this board as a model:

Bimmerfest.com evolved from a much smaller group of very passionate CCA members who wanted a little more than monthly chapter meets, weekend auto-x events and their regular dose of Roundel. They wanted to hang out, *every day*, and talk about BMWs. They wanted a medium by which they could talk about their cars, provide tech tips, and discuss the future of the marque. They wanted a level of interactivity and exposure that could not be provided by the CCA. Moreover, they wanted to break out of the mold of local chapters.

Problems were solved in a matter of minutes, vs. days, and you didn't need to wait for latest Tech Tip from Roundel. News also breaks here first. When the new E60 M5 was caught on camera in the USA, it was caught by Bimmerfest.com members first. A fresh new shot of the E92 is also found here on Bimmerfest.com as well (see: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115049).

Word spread fast, and Bimmerfest.com has become home to many BMW CCA members, and many new members that had never heard of the CCA have become members through Bimmerfest. While Roundel serves as a very nice digest, and the BMW CCA provides access to powerful resources, the Internet remains a daily heartbeat of CCA members.

Is this newsworthy? Well, no.

So what is? Well, the most remarkable thing about Bimmerfest is that once a year, that community meets in a massive event that brings cars from around America to one place. Caravans of cars from various areas descend on Santa Barbara, identifying themselves by the region they came from. Terry Kennedy of Bimmerfest even drove from NYC, all the way across America, to attend Bimmerfest. People, many of who had previously only known each other by a screen name, bring their cars and their love for the marque to this event.

Think of it like a Z homecoming or OktoberFest. In the spring, there is Bimmerfest in Santa Barbara. It's NOT some small mini-meet in a mall parking lot. It's much, MUCH bigger.

Tim Jones, Mark Jurista and Jon Shafer don't just have a message board... they have an exceptional one. They also don't just have an BMW event, they have one of the best ones. Their message board is moderated by CCA members who both carry on the spirit of the CCA and bring new members to the CCA. Their annual event has a high concentration of CCA members and every member has acted as good will ambassadors to the BMW CCA.

For a non-CCA event run by CCA members, I think it's pretty amazing and newsworthy.

When you say:



> I had some trouble figuring out the focus of Bimmerfest (but then, I tend to be too linear). I'm sure you have a better idea than I what "the story of Bimmerfest" should be.


Quite simply, Bimmerfest is about bringing the community together. All lovers of the marque are welcome, CCA members or not. There's little point in making it a "Chapter Event" because it is much bigger than that. It's a national event. It's the CCA's own reluctance to recognize this event and others like it that will eventually doom it to a relic.

To me, the Roundel is about special cars, special events and the people that make BMW what it is today. Bimmerfest is highly relevant, CCA event or not. If I want to read about what happened in my local chapter, I have my chapter newsletter. When I open up my Roundel, I want to read about national events like Bimmerfest.

Kris Linquist has submitted copy for what he thought was a great article about Bimmerfest 2005. I'd like to hear from the CCA why his story wasn't interesting enough. I have reviewed the copy myself and thought it to quite good, with some excellent photos to match.

Albert C. Lee
BMWCCA #272636


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## Mike 325xi (Dec 19, 2001)

Satch said:


> Um. . . I'm not making myself understood very well---not an uncommon problem with me! The liability issues reminded me that Bimmerfest is NOT a CCA event. I'm sure you COULD make it a CCA event if you wanted. . . but I'm not sure how it would be categorized. . . car show? Anyway, it was the wild paint jobs and lambo doors at Bimmerfest that convinced me it might be time for an article on "alternative" BMW lifestyles! But I personally agree with whoever said BMWs are about driving, not bling. . .
> 
> . . . or stereo systems. . .
> 
> ...


Satch,

Thank you for posting here, I have always enjoyed your work in Roundel.

I was rather surprised to read the negative comments on pg. 45 of this month's Roundel regarding Bimmerfest. Quite honestly, I didn't attend this year because I thought that what was described by the writer was exactly what I would find there. From all that I read on the board and all of the commentary by people who attended that was not the case at all. I truly am sorry that I missed the event and hope that I get another opportunity to do so in the future.

There were, as I have been told, a few people that did some of the things that the writer mentioned (burnouts, loud music etc.) but they were for the most part a very small minority from all accounts.

To have a writer make such a negative and very specific comment about Bimmerfest in the same edition that that features "BM Dubs" is rather hypocritical in my opinion. I truly think that a retraction or apology to the people that work so hard to make the bimmerfest event and this board such a great thing, specifically Jon Shafer, who continues to do all of this work even after he has ended his career as GSM at the original sponsoring dealership, would be appropriate.

The entire concept, purpose and stated mission statement of bimmerfest.com and the event called Bimmerfest is "Bringing the BMW community together" and I think that it is doing an amazing job of doing exactly that. When you have time I hope that you will read through some of the hundreds of thousands of posts on this board and to see that that is exactly what is occurring here. In some ways BMWCCA should take a cue from this board and learn some lessons about how the diverse community of BMW owners can come together for one common goal...the appreciation of the automobile and the marque that we have all chosen to love.

I really hope that you become a regular reader of bimmerfest and hopefully a regular contributor...the addition of someone such as yourself could only be a very positive thing for bimmerfest and the BMW community in general.

Thanks for taking the time to visit our "little" community on the net and please encourage the other editors, staff and writers to do the same. I think you might all be pleasantly surprised at what you will find here and possibly even learn here.


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## Terry Kennedy (Sep 21, 2002)

alee said:


> So what is? Well, the most remarkable thing about Bimmerfest is that once a year, that community meets in a massive event that brings cars from around America to one place. Caravans of cars from various areas descend on Santa Barbara, identifying themselves by the region they came from. Terry Kennedy of Bimmerfest even drove from NYC, all the way across America, to attend Bimmerfest. People, many of who had previously only known each other by a screen name, bring their cars and their love for the marque to this event.


And I'm not the only one - other members have traveled long distances (Jay came from TN, I think).

In order to understand this, you might need to experience this forum - the exchanged technical info, friendships, and shared experiences that develop between people with a passion for BMWs, who have never met in real life. The annual gathering lets us meet and compare notes in person.

And we bring back memories of that experience and share them with others. Of note, one of the larger parking lot gatherings at the NJBMWCCA annual gathering at BMWNA HQ last year was people looking at my photo album of the trip - which, coincidentally, took me over Guanella Pass, featured in Roundel somewhat later.

For the 2004 Bimmerfest, a DVD was made which has some Bimmerfest history as well as coverage of the 2004 event. Satch, I'd like to send you a copy.


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

alee said:


> The root of my gripes are that the CCA has not grown up with the BMW community.


Al, Satch admittted that in his post.



> What the current board is doing is an attempt to change the bylaws so they can look at new ways of defining chapters.





> So it might make more sense to grant chapter status to group bound by some other factor than area code.


BMWCCA Bimmerfest National Chapter. :bigpimp: ... oh the possibilities.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Sorry for being dense here, but what are the possibilities w/ national chapters? I'd expect that the majority of interaction that would take place with national chapters would be via the internet on forums like this one. So then, what would be differrent about posting to a cca sanctioned forum vs this one? What other benefits would there be?



ObD said:


> Al, Satch admittted that in his post.
> 
> BMWCCA Bimmerfest National Chapter. :bigpimp: ... oh the possibilities.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

How about this for a 'byline' for Bimmerfest:

"Quite simply the largest BMW-exclusive enthusiast's gathering ever assembled
in North America, and perhaps beyond, featuring an all-star cast of the greatest
names in BMW tuning (Dinan/Hamann/AC Schnitzer), as well as the top names in
American BMW Motorsport such as Turner, Auberlen, et al."

Does that sound about right, worthy of mention in Roundel?

Seriously, what was printed in Roundel was what my 15 year-old son would call
a "diss". It would have better to have not said anything at all. Perhaps the only
thing positive to come out of it is the present dialog...

...Just my $.02...

Thanks for at least addressing the issue here Satch.

What was written in the mag was just plain mean.


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## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

Hey, Satch,

1. I'm still reading the racing articles (I was the one who said that she'd finally come into the light and appreciated them in _Roundel_ )

2. Good to see you posting here! :thumbup:


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## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Bimmerfest 2006 - 8 April 2006!* :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

To the owner of the KarToyz Black 645i: Please leave the keys at the front desk; I'll be picking them up for the drive back to Chino Hills   :angel:


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Hi All -

First of all, Satch, welcome to the 'fest and it was good to see you at the event last year.

I think everyone here would like to see some decent coverage of Bimmerfest in the Roundel. I thought KrisL's article was good enough to get in there, but part of blame can be placed on me - I directed Kris to write an article from the "Chamber of Commerce" point of view to help inform the CCA readership not familiar with the event on what it was about as opposed to a very focused story line approach.

We've invited Satch and the Roundel to cover Bimmerfest (writer and photog), but what Satch is saying is he needs the event to be a BMW CCA event to do that - and that there are some issues with the events structure (at least up through last year) that would prevent it being a BMW CCA sanctioned event. We have invited (begged) the LA Chapter to come be more of a presence and just have not had much luck (the team that was to come represent the chapter last year had a member go in the hospital that morning - so that is just bad luck and could not be avoided). But even if that happened, it still would not have been a BWM CCA event. Is it possible to try and make that happen? Now that the road rally is out of the picture, I will approach the LA chapter board and see what can be done to help add it to their official chapter events.

Now having said all that, I would still have liked to have seen some article, even a short one covering the event. If something like the 6 series 'Sharkfest" can get an article, I don't see why an event as important on the West Coast out here like the 'fest is should not get one. There was certainly more than antics on the highway and lambo doors going on that weekend. But maybe that was one of the things that is hard for Satch to get a feel for - the event is big enough now, it's almost like being at SEMA - and sometimes it's the outrageous or negative things that leave the biggest impression.

Maybe Satch, you could add some of your own experiences from that weekend to KrisL's proposed article - caravaning down in the Dinan M5, etc.

But I do have to give Satch some credit for at least coming out and taking a look at the event himself. I appreciate the effort and I don't think it's something Satch does every time some event sends him a message and says they should get covered.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Jon said:


> How about this for a 'byline' for Bimmerfest:
> 
> "Quite simply the largest BMW-exclusive enthusiast's gathering ever assembled
> in North America, and perhaps beyond, featuring an all-star cast of the greatest
> ...


Have to agree here.

BMW and CCA ignore an event like this at their own peril.


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## MG67 (Aug 19, 2003)

Jon said:


> It's funny, but I was standing talking with Steve Dinan when we pulled
> the now infamous "Lambo Door" car into the showroom. No disrespect
> to Mr. Dinan, but he clearly not impressed with it. I'm sure that his perception
> must have bounced off of (and resonated with) Satch...
> ...


 :thumbup: I signed up for BMWCCA here after talking about BMW's online, going to the Santa Barbara Bimmerfest event and being a BMW Club member in the Netherlands for almost 12 years... I love the events, Chapter 
events and the people on this board... I have a lot of respect for Jon, Alex, Tim and all other organisers...


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I tend to agree with everyone that the reasoning Satch gave for not giving covereage to bimmerfest don't really make sense.
-No Story-line
-The same could be said or not said about any number of events including auto shows, chapter gatherings, model specific gatehrings, etc. Any time a large number of BMW enthusiasts come togethre, I'd generally assume Roundel would be interested. And, theres' any number of story lines

-Liability
-It'd be one thing if CCA sponsored bimmerfest. But writing a story about it hardlly opens you up to liability.

-Not affiliated with CCA
-Plenty of other companies, people, and events that aren't affiliated with the CCA are discussed in Roundel

-No one wrote a story
-What about this mysterious KrisL piece that everyone keeps talking about?


And, actually the article on Dubs in the latest issue seems to contradict some of the main reasons that Satch gave for not covering bimmerfest:
-its just a bunch of people putting big wheels on their cars-- where's the story? 
-It could be dangerous to modify your car; what about the liability?

And, the negatively tinged comment about bimmerfest that was printed in Roundel, seems to mock lambo doors and dubs. But that contradicts Satch's stated defense of the Dubs article.

My guess is that Satch and Roundel realize that they've made an error in judgement by not pritning a bimmerfest story. I'm not sure what the real reasons are, but the reasons given by Satch just don't quite make sense when you think about them. Regardless, I'm happy that Satch has come here, and seems to be open to listening to us. So, I think there's hope that a future issue may contain coverage.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

The bottom line is that Satch is the editor, and he can run Roundel any way he feels like. If he doesn't want to cover bimmerfest, there will be no coverage.

If you don't agree with the content, and he refuses to listen, the only way to get around the issue will be to have someone else in charge of his position.

We all have good and bad experiences at BMW dealers, so how come Roundel only prints the names of the dealers when the experiences were positive, and edit the crap out of letters where the experience was nicht so gut.

Right, it's Satch's prerogative, he can run the magazine any way feel feels like.


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## DaKine (Aug 17, 2005)

Stuka said:


> We all have good and bad experiences at BMW dealers


Pshhhhhhhhhh, what do you know abou bad experiences with dealers? I mean, it's not like they ever damaged one of your cars or anything... :eeps:


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Stuka said:


> The bottom line is that Satch is the editor, and he can run Roundel any way he feels like. If he doesn't want to cover bimmerfest, there will be no coverage.


Master of the obvious.

We have an opportunity here to make a good case for why Bimmerfest (and other events like it) should be covered, regardless of whether it's a CCA event. More importantly, we have Satch's attention.

Throwing up our hands and saying "Satch can do what he wants, oh well" isn't my idea of the best way to handle this.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

alee said:


> Master of the obvious.
> 
> We have an opportunity here to make a good case for why Bimmerfest (and other events like it) should be covered, regardless of whether it's a CCA event. More importantly, we have Satch's attention.
> 
> Throwing up our hands and saying "Satch can do what he wants, oh well" isn't my idea of the best way to handle this.


The editorship is not a democracy. 

Again I ask you, if the editor has already made up his mind about covering certain events, what, pray tell, can you do about it seeing that you have no leverage? :dunno:


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

LmtdSlip said:


> BMW and CCA ignore an event like this at their own peril.


They did come out to check it out... that's hardly ignoring I would think. And "at their own peril"? c'mon... it's not gonna kill BMW or the CCA if the story's not run....

I would've liked to see a story on the Fest there as well... the reason why it hasn't happened is what all this hubbub is about.


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## Sea Jazz (Sep 23, 2005)

*Bimmerfest/Roundel* magazine

Is this blasphemy?

Just merge BMWCCA and Bimmerfest. You get the formal structure of the BMWCCA with the immediate gratification and sense of community that participating in the Bimmerfest Forums gives you.


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

Stuka said:


> The bottom line is that Satch is the editor, and he can run Roundel any way he feels like. If he doesn't want to cover bimmerfest, there will be no coverage.


Quite true. And If he doesn't want to cover Bimmerfest, he should just come right out and say it rather then hem and haw and make excuses about why it won't happen. Or he could be constructive and let us know exactly why it hasn't happened yet and how to overcome those obstacles. And I don't consider what he has said so far about why it hasn't happened to be anything other than a set of bad and contradictory half-excuses.


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

Sea Jazz said:


> Just merge BMWCCA and Bimmerfest.


Nothing good could come out of that merger.


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## James (Jun 30, 2004)

I don't think this is about leverage or trying to corner Roundel into doing something it doesn't want to do.

Satch and Phil Marx clearly have a misconception of what bimmerfest is all about. If we can demonstrate bimmerfest isn't what (for whatever reason) they think it is then perhaps it will get more consideration in upcoming issues.

Satch has come to us and basically said, "This is why we aren't covering you. Tell me why I am wrong".

James.


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## Boile (Jul 5, 2005)

I don't get it.
Why is it important that Bimmerfest be covered in Roundel?
As explained by Satch, Roundel is a BMWCCA publication. It covers the BMWCCA world. That's a slight but distinct difference with covering the BMW world. 
Bimmerfest has no relation to BMWCCA, so why should it be in Roundel, specifically?
Alee's argument was that Bimmerfest is undeniably newsworthy. Sure, so is Katrina. And the war in Iraq. But should those be in Roundel?
I'm fully aware that being in Roundel would be a big plus for promoting Bimmerfest. But so would be being featured in any of the top commercial car enthusiast magazines.
I don't see us bashing MT or C&D editors for missing a newsworthy event of Bimmerfest proportions. 
Suggestion: work on developing a synergy between BMWCCA and Bimmerfest.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Boile said:


> I don't get it.
> Why is it important that Bimmerfest be covered in Roundel?
> As explained by Satch, Roundel is a BMWCCA publication. It covers the BMWCCA world. That's a slight but distinct difference with covering the BMW world.
> Bimmerfest has no relation to BMWCCA, so why should it be in Roundel, specifically?
> ...


Well said. It's not like the event didn't get coverage at all either. Some other mags had stories on the event right? :dunno: Yeah it's a bummer it didn't get into Roundel, but is it really that big of a deal? :dunno:

Or is it just a reaction that started because of the "dis" and the dubs article being perceived as a slap in the face? :dunno:


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

doeboy said:


> They did come out to check it out... that's hardly ignoring I would think. And "at their own peril"? c'mon... it's not gonna kill BMW or the CCA if the story's not run....
> 
> I would've liked to see a story on the Fest there as well... the reason why it hasn't happened is what all this hubbub is about.


Well peril might be an exageration. But what I mean is from a brand perspective this was one of the largest gatherings of your brands enthusiasts in the US.

When you start ignoring this segment or pigeon holing them as meerly "enthusiasts" who represent just a small portion of sales you loose, for lack of a better term, "street cred".

Long term this will result in your brands distinction becoming diminished as a result. This is fine if you are changing the direction and strategy of the brand. But as BMW still bills their products as the Ultimate Driving Machine it would seem logical that an event such as Bimmerfest would be given a bit more consideration.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Can somebody PLEASE post the article written by KrisL. If I'm not going to get a chance to read it in Roundel, I would still like to read his mad writing skillz.


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## Bmwcat (Jul 30, 2004)

I'd like to read a few issues of Roundel. I'll pay postage for a few copies if anyone wants to purge their inventory. :bigpimp:


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Satch said:


> It seems to me that with the writing skills shown on this forum, there ought to be somebody who could provide a decent report on the next Bimmerfest, but I couldn't find a solid story line at the last one. At Oktoberfest, there's a week of competitions, so you have those stories; you have registration numbers so you can (usually) tell who's in the photos; it's generally organized in a fashion that supports a chronological narrative. I had some trouble figuring out the focus of Bimmerfest (but then, I tend to be too linear). I'm sure you have a better idea than I what "the story of Bimmerfest" should be.


Satch, is it possible with some re-working, the article from KrisL can be turned into something the Roundel could use?

If not, thanks for the hints. If we can't get one for B'fest 2005, perhaps we can rise to the challenge for 2006 and submit an article that will work.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

scottn2retro said:


> perhaps we can rise to the challenge for 2006 and submit an article that will work.


"Dear Roundel Forum:

I never thought it would happen to me, but at Bimmerfest 2006, I met these two lovely ladies...."

:rofl:


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

:rofl: I know of a professional photographer that can help with the 'article'.


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

LmtdSlip said:


> Long term this will result in your brands distinction becoming diminished as a result. This is fine if you are changing the direction and strategy of the brand. But as BMW still bills their products as the Ultimate Driving Machine it would seem logical that an event such as Bimmerfest would be given a bit more consideration.


I highly doubt the marketing direction of BMWs in the United States of America will be affected by Roundel's lack of coverage of Bimmefest 2005.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

*Roundel has gone to crap*

OK. Got my Roundel today and saw the DUBS artcle. I thought I was going to throw up. Roundel just went plumenting down close to zero on my respected list. Why don't they just rename the magazine "There Is No F*&king Roundel Because I Just Covered It With A Ricer-Ass Bolt On Wing." :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:


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## DaveH (Sep 25, 2003)

Plaz said:


> "Dear Roundel Forum:
> 
> I never thought it would happen to me, but at Bimmerfest 2006, I met these two lovely ladies...."
> 
> :rofl:


....where they supple, pert or pouty? :freakdanc


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Plaz said:


> "Dear Roundel Forum:
> 
> I never thought it would happen to me, but at Bimmerfest 2006, I met these two lovely ladies...."
> 
> :rofl:


 :slap: Ty Vil's personal accounts of Bimmerfest were not what I had in mind (just kidding Ty :angel: )


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

scottn2retro said:


> :slap: Ty Vil's personal accounts of Bimmerfest were not what I had in mind (just kidding Ty :angel: )


 Yeah, but those shoes :thumbup:


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

woody underwood said:


> Don't you read the Roundel? They bash BMWs more than any magazine on the market and have probably had more impact on what Bimmers we drive in the US than any other source.


Which part of what I said was untrue? 

Do they, or do they not only publish names of the dealers when someone had somethin good to say?


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

The HACK said:


> Can somebody PLEASE post the article written by KrisL. If I'm not going to get a chance to read it in Roundel, I would still like to read his mad writing skillz.


http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115968


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

The HACK said:


> Can somebody PLEASE post the article written by KrisL. If I'm not going to get a chance to read it in Roundel, I would still like to read his mad writing skillz.


It's up on the home page :thumbup:


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## Boile (Jul 5, 2005)

operknockity said:


> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115968


"Registration numbers show that nearly half of attendees were BMWCCA members"

Here's your synergy. Roundel would be doing a diservice to it's readers if it continued to ignore Bimmerfest.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

SergioK said:


> I highly doubt the marketing direction of BMWs in the United States of America will be affected by Roundel's lack of coverage of Bimmefest 2005.


Thats not what I said.

I said that unless their long term vision is away from being the "Ultimate Driving Machine" that they will alienate these core customers by continuing to ignore them.

And I think based on the styling direction as well as the features on the cars (trucks  ) leaning more towards luxury rather than "sport" that an argument can be made that BMW has already decided to change direction away from these core enthusiasts.


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## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Boile said:


> "Registration numbers show that nearly half of attendees were BMWCCA members"
> 
> Here's your synergy.


There were CCA members from over a half dozen chapters in attendance (LA, GG, CC, Roadrunner, Sin City, Puget Sound, etc.)


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

*So what happened with this?*

I was reading an old Bimmer article about when they bid farewell to Yale Rachlin. Who some might remember is the recently deceased editor of Roundel (from the mid 80's to 1998). Apparently he did a lot to "change" the tone of Roundel to include diversity of opinion. Going as far as printing EVERY letter to the editor received.

Sadly that is not the impression I get these days, it seems Roundel is more of a marketing tool than a service to BMW owners. And IMO that totally devalues Roundel. With the quality of info available on Bimmerfest, I would venture to say BMW's warranty and needless service visits have decreased. I wonder how BMW feels about this.

BMW should be supporting Bimmerfest and the alike as much as possible. Or at least acknowledge that Bimmerfest is far more informative about BMWs than any other accessible source I can think of. With the exception of specialized info on a specific model that might have an entire BBS dedicated to it. But again it would be another forum not a printed mag.

As of now BMW owners support themselves when it comes to BMW ownership especially on the long term. And this is the best place for that support. Roundel and BMWs failure to recognize this discredits them IMO.


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