# Diesel or Gas??



## kdubrow (May 20, 2015)

I am about to buy a BMW but can't decide which way to go. I'm looking into 2010/11 335's but really want to pick up a 335d. Are there any major reliability issues I should be aware of that may push me more to a regular 335 instead of the diesel?


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

yes. Search on carbon build up (CBU).
good luck


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## jansGT (Feb 27, 2015)

My all previous cars were gas. Now I have 530d (first diesel in my entire life) and I think this is going to be the last one. Well it takes you from A to B, quite nicely, BUT! - the response is like in "slow motion"...
I came from 335i so the difference is huge! Gas is gas. And diesel is good, -for tractors


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

jansGT said:


> My all previous cars were gas. Now I have 530d (first diesel in my entire life) and I think this is going to be the last one. Well it takes you from A to B, quite nicely, BUT! - the response is like in "slow motion"...
> I came from 335i so the difference is huge! Gas is gas. And diesel is good, -for tractors


I'm in the exact opposite camp. I drive around 1k miles/week between my work commute (total 110 miles/day, all highway) and having a life outside of work. At the rate I log the miles, 100k miles is a little under 2 years of driving for me. Like many on this site I also happen to LIKE to drive and is what attracts me to BMWs. I've been driving diesel cars for the past 13 years and logged a combined total of more than 700k miles on them and *absolutely WILL NOT* own another gasser (hybrids included) ever again if I can help it. No more gassers! ALL future vehicle purchases of mine shall only be DIESEL vehicles. Gassers are not even a consideration at all when car shopping.

Good luck.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Buy horsepower, drive torque.


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

I do mostly shorter trips (5-15 miles round trip), with longer trips (>20mi) thrown in here and there.

No regrets with diesel. My fuel economy probably isn't the best, but I'm still average (at worst) 29-30mpg in the winter, and right now I'm between 35-37mpg combined (mostly city). On longer trips in ideal temps, I can average close to 50mpg. All while putting out over 300 ft/lbs tq.

Even though diesel isn't as ideal for city driving, the torque makes up for it!


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

n1das said:


> I'm in the exact opposite camp. I drive around 1k miles/week between my work commute (total 110 miles/day, all highway) and having a life outside of work. At the rate I log the miles, 100k miles is a little under 2 years of driving for me. Like many on this site I also happen to LIKE to drive and is what attracts me to BMWs. I've been driving diesel cars for the past 13 years and logged a combined total of more than 700k miles on them and *absolutely WILL NOT* own another gasser (hybrids included) ever again if I can help it. No more gassers! ALL future vehicle purchases of mine shall only be DIESEL vehicles. Gassers are not even a consideration at all when car shopping.
> 
> Good luck.


X2 on that. I can't see ever buying another gasoline powered car, after having a diesel. Besides the fact that I no longer carry a tankfull of explosive fuel, the diesel has gobs more torque and 46mpg ain't bad either. I like the way it launches once the turbo spools up.

My next one will be another 328d or maybe a 535d if things are going good at work LOL.


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

jansGT said:


> My all previous cars were gas. Now I have 530d (first diesel in my entire life) and I think this is going to be the last one. Well it takes you from A to B, quite nicely, BUT! - the response is like in "slow motion"...
> I came from 335i so the difference is huge! Gas is gas. And diesel is good, -for tractors


Not getting but 19-20 on interstate... gas looking better


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Diesel is just as explosive as is gasoline. Neither will explode as a liquid, both will explode as a vapor of droplets mixed with air.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

Doug Huffman said:


> Diesel is just as explosive as is gasoline. Neither will explode as a liquid, both will explode as a vapor of droplets mixed with air.


But the point where these fuels go into vapor form is a better indication of their "explosiveness":


> The flash point of a chemical is the lowest temperature where enough fluid can evaporate to form a combustible concentration of gas.
> The flash point is an indication of how easy a chemical may burn. Materials with higher flash points are less flammable or hazardous than chemicals with lower flash points.
> 
> Fuel	Flash Point (*F)
> ...


helpful link


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

txagbmw said:


> Your right stay with gas. Not just the slow around town performance, its the noise.
> If drive allot of miles or Highway, the diesel might be good. But just around town
> no. Got my 13X because of rebates and discounted price.


WHAT noise? My 535d is actually quieter than a 535i gasser at idle from what I've been told by a car enthusiast friend of mine who has stood beside both and carefully listened. It's quieter than many gassers. On the highway it's quieter than most gassers due to the lower RPMs and quieter exhaust.

My 2012 X3 35d has a little more of a growl to it than the 535d has under load but I like it.

I love the nice purrrrrrrrrrrrrr and more husky sound of a modern turbodiesel engine. I recently owned a Ford F-350 SuperDuty truck with the 6.4L PowerStroke Diesel engine. I loved hearing the whistle of the turbo spooling up when under load (2 turbos, compound sequential setup). OTOH gassers are boring to listen to IMHO.

Contrary to popular belief, diesels actually do well around town too for MPGs given that they barely sip fuel at idle and use no fuel when decelerating in gear with no throttle input. You don't take as much of a hit in MPGs compared to gassers when just putting around town. What's bad in the city is that trips may not be long enough to get the engine fully up to operating temp especially during winter. Modern turbodiesels thrive on being regularly driven hard and for long periods.

Bottom line is either you want the diesel or you don't. If you want the diesel then go for it. If not, there are plenty of gassers to choose from.

Good luck.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

d geek said:


> But the point where these fuels go into vapor form is a better indication of their "explosiveness":
> 
> helpful link


What *d geek* said.

To help put things into perspective, if you were to pour some diesel fuel on a lighted match, it will extinguish the flame. Definitely DO NOT try this at home with gasoline!


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## SpeedyD (Sep 18, 2011)

Obviously, they each have their pros/cons. I absolutely love the 335d and have no regrets about selecting it over a 335i.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

txagbmw said:


> Your right stay with gas. Not just the slow around town performance, its the noise.
> 
> If drive allot of miles or Highway, the diesel might be good. But just around town
> 
> no. Got my 13X because of rebates and discounted price.


My, what a different tune from November 2013... Buyer's remorse?



txagbmw said:


> I too like the sound, its different. Not the sound of my v8 vette but its got a deep intake growl. I never liked any of my 6 cyl
> cars sounds, even the 335i too much of a buzz. Even on my large diesel Ford, its a power sound. Sure for some women
> going to tea it won't be there bag.


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## kdubrow (May 20, 2015)

from a reliability standpoint which am I better off with? I have a diesel Vw now and love the low end power and torque so I'm not worried about that part of it.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

d geek said:


> But the point where these fuels go into vapor form is a better indication of their "explosiveness"


Combustion is not explosion, it is burning.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

n1das said:


> WHAT noise? ....
> 
> I love the nice purrrrrrrrrrrrrr and more husky sound of a modern turbodiesel engine...
> 
> Contrary to popular belief, diesels actually do well around town too for MPGs..... g


I find our 335D has minimal lag. But you certainly feel the push on your backside when the big turbo spools up.

I also do not find it noisy. Inside the car same or quieter than the gas engine. It does have a nice growl under power which I find nicely reassuring. I also see that my tailpipes are cleaner than the gas engine cars such as the 335i.

I personally do not think it gets very good MPG around town. As others have stated the extra weight of the diesel engine is the stop/go MPG killer.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

KeithS said:


> I personally do not think it gets very good MPG around town. As others have stated the extra weight of the diesel engine is the stop/go MPG killer.


I don't think any car gets good MPG around town. We would have to compare cars of equal weight and power, but I suspect the diesel would still do better. 
The real problem is starting from a stop, more than anything, and that takes a lot of fuel regardless of type. 
The diesel does shine at steady long highway speeds, so much so that its stop and go performance seems to suffer, but that is a relative thing.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

I think what everyone is saying, that the loss of MPG for the 335D around town is a much higher percentage than the gas version of the car. On the highway where the D gets 30% better MPG than the 335i, around town the two cars will get nearly the same MPG.


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

KeithS said:


> around town the two cars will get nearly the same MPG.


I find that hard to believe.

Both my 335i and Z4 35i averaged 20-23mpg combined (mostly city). When I had a 335d as a loaner, I was closer to 28-30mpg in the same conditions. That's nearly a 50% increase. Most of my driving is shorter trips, which is clearly a worst-case scenario for diesels.

My 328d has been averaging 35-37mpg combined, closer to 45-50mpg when on long trips. I'm not aware of the 328i being able to average such high fuel economy.

Fuelly's stats alone would contradict that statement.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

The 328d does not have nearly the weight penalty of the 335d.


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

KeithS said:


> The 328d does not have nearly the weight penalty of the 335d.


Well understood. I was comparing the 328d to the 328i in addition to the original point.

My point was that when I compared the 335i to the 335d, I still saw a noticeable increase in fuel economy around town (sans highway).


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## Sushiholic (Apr 27, 2015)

I can guarantee you that around town the 335d gets better mileage than the 335i....by a hefty margin. it is not really weight that kills it as someone put it.... the published curb weight difference between the two is 232 pounds.
sure stop and go is bad, but its worse in the 335i......I sit in Houston traffic......on a bad day I get 32 on a good day 36. My 17 year old son can somehow manage to get it under 30....his Dinan E46 M3 has some size tank. at 300 miles I am at half tank, at 300 miles he well into the next tank. Diesel all the way.
My wife drives the GL 320cdi.......love it. We have friends with the same car in a 550 they get about half the mileage. granted the cdi does not have the power of the bmw, and weighs a ton, but its a great touring car.....houston - san diego in 21 hours, at 23 mpg


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

kdubrow said:


> I am about to buy a BMW but can't decide which way to go. I'm looking into 2010/11 335's but really want to pick up a 335d. Are there any major reliability issues I should be aware of that may push me more to a regular 335 instead of the diesel?


When you never had diesel in your life go only with Gas engine
Super Gas on gas station smell like after shave Jovani Conda
Diesel stinking like a man who never took shower in his life.

You asking for problems is same like when married with hooker

If you can do by your self automatically you eliminating mechanics who love fresh cash $$$


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Sushiholic said:


> I can guarantee you that around town the 335d gets better mileage than the 335i....by a hefty margin. it is not really weight that kills it as someone put it.... the published curb weight difference between the two is 232 pounds.
> sure stop and go is bad, but its worse in the 335i......I sit in Houston traffic......on a bad day I get 32 on a good day 36. My 17 year old son can somehow manage to get it under 30....his Dinan E46 M3 has some size tank. at 300 miles I am at half tank, at 300 miles he well into the next tank. Diesel all the way.
> My wife drives the GL 320cdi.......love it. We have friends with the same car in a 550 they get about half the mileage. granted the cdi does not have the power of the bmw, and weighs a ton, but its a great touring car.....houston - san diego in 21 hours, at 23 mpg


Diesel are different and more up to big V8 gas engines * need to look on same engine rev
Gas & Diesel = Diesel at max torque & more horse power

When you getting to statistics and price means for you even not wort to walk with stick.

Gas smell on gas station like Perfume Jovani Pedro & Diesel like fat old man

Diesels are very practical when never see mechanics & owner capable to do basic oil change and wash the car.


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## HoffmanAndrew (Jun 22, 2015)

KeithS said:


> I think what everyone is saying, that the loss of MPG for the 335D around town is a much higher percentage than the gas version of the car. On the highway where the D gets 30% better MPG than the 335i, around town the two cars will get nearly the same MPG.


I agree with Keith. The MPG of diesel is far better than gas. If you are driving on a freeway, you'll be definitely saving some diesel and the diesel performance parts helps you to get great MPG. The 335d posts about a 28-percent mileage improvement over the 328i in the city and 29 percent on the highway. With diesel currently selling at less than five percent more than the premium fuel required in the 335i, the 335d will definitely cost you less at the pump.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Diesel or gas means nothing
Lifestyle only


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

My son drives a '07 335i Coupe. I drive a 2010 335d sedan. I get 5 mpg or better than him, in all comparable conditions. An n54 engine is quite good on mileage for an engine of it's size, but the diesel is just better in that regard.


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

Performance wise, the 335d isn't even close to that of 335i. I've driven both and the 335i is hands down the better performance car. I would say if high performance and city driving is high on your list of "wants" for a car, then you should choose 335i.

IMO, the 335d is really for those with long highway commutes or those who take long trips.


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## Dean_S (Mar 31, 2015)

Many are getting the 3.0 liter diesel for the performance [as a luxury vehicle], not the least fuel cost. Yes, the MPG's are great, but maintenance can mess with total cost of ownership.

413 ft.lb torque is a great


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Dean_S;9145967... Yes said:


> As does the initial higher purchase price. The 335D will never pay out economically over the 335i. We purchased it because of the driving characteristics.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

For sure country is not ready to serve BMW cars plus huge ripoff


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

KeithS said:


> As does the initial higher purchase price. The 335D will never pay out economically over the 335i. We purchased it because of the driving characteristics.


You haven't run the numbers. Mine paid off after the 3rd year (above a 335i) - I save around $600/year on fuel costs (18K miles/year, 31mpg actual vs. son's 25mpg actual.) And that's before noting that I got $4500 eco credit which no-one buying a 335i got.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Flying Ace said:


> Performance wise, the 335d isn't even close to that of 335i. I've driven both and the 335i is hands down the better performance car. I would say if high performance and city driving is high on your list of "wants" for a car, then you should choose 335i.
> 
> IMO, the 335d is really for those with long highway commutes or those who take long trips.


The 335d is the ultimate commuter car. Instant torque at lower RPM.

The 335i needs to be revved up to get the same torque (or less) so "performance" is good only if you drive like a race driver on the open road. Most don't.

Many don't know that at least in European trim (less weight?) a 335d is faster from 80 kph to 120 kph than an equivalent M3. May be due to gearing, but that is the BMW figure.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

You cant rev 335i to same torque of 335d
Forget all Diesel have power of V8 engine


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

Pierre Louis said:


> The 335d is the ultimate commuter car. Instant torque at lower RPM.
> 
> The 335i needs to be revved up to get the same torque (or less) so "performance" is good only if you drive like a race driver on the open road. Most don't.
> 
> Many don't know that at least in European trim (less weight?) a 335d is faster from 80 kph to 120 kph than an equivalent M3. May be due to gearing, but that is the BMW figure.


by revving up a 335i you mean going above 2000 rpms? The turbo in the 335i keeps torque numbers available throughout the band. You don't get a significant fall off until 5.5k.

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1009_bmw_335i_335is_dyno_test/

At the end of the day, the 420 ftlbs of torque in the 335d can't be matched by a gasoline car unless you go with a large displacement V8 like the C63 (which is also 450 hp and above) or forced induction six cylinder which would give you a 400 HP car (I'm not aware of such a FI car in recent memory, so help me out here)

I still maintain, all things considered, if you wanted high performance, you go with the 335i over the 335d. Actually, I would choose a 335is.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Yes I understand you
Same time never compare Diesel to Gas engine
Different engine dynamics - every Diesel is slower responding from Gas engine
335is i a love in Havens with super orgasm.


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## DnA Diesel (Jul 31, 2010)

kdubrow said:


> I am about to buy a BMW but can't decide which way to go. I'm looking into 2010/11 335's but really want to pick up a 335d. Are there any major reliability issues I should be aware of that may push me more to a regular 335 instead of the diesel?


If it's a 2010 335i, you may want to read up on N54 HPFP failures. For (many) 335d's the issue is carbon build up (CBU), as d_geek noted early in the thread.

Test drive both if you can, and let your gut steer you. I loved the heck out of my '95 E34 540i 6-sp gasser and I put 270,000km on it, but I have 180,000km on my current '09 335d and love the way it drives and I smile every time I drive it. Trust your intuition.

Good luck.

D.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

When we love something
The most full joy


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Flying Ace said:


> by revving up a 335i you mean going above 2000 rpms? The turbo in the 335i keeps torque numbers available throughout the band. You don't get a significant fall off until 5.5k.
> 
> http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1009_bmw_335i_335is_dyno_test/
> 
> ...


I consider "performance" to include fuel economy and handling, not just 0-60 acceleration. The freedom from 15 mpg on premium fuel keeps me away, far away, from cars like the e90 M3. Sorry.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Lifestyle only & knowledge about technology
Those cars cost money mpg not a secret and really not important to that owner

Econo owners never buy car for 50.K $ up 150K $

Be practical buy Hyundai & tell me where you been lately with your car ? 

Be strong man not as child


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## thatwyteguy (Apr 22, 2015)

Well i can tell you from experience the diesels have injector issues but are surprising performance wise. There are also alot less upgrades you can do since the car is not as popular. That and the transmission cant handle much more torque than the factory spec.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

What are you talking about?
Ha Ha Ha


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

floydarogers said:


> You haven't run the numbers. Mine paid off after the 3rd year (above a 335i) - I save around $600/year on fuel costs (18K miles/year, 31mpg actual vs. son's 25mpg actual.) And that's before noting that I got $4500 eco credit which no-one buying a 335i got.


Forgot about the eco credit. But as mine was a former service loaner, the dealer took that.

In the NorthEast Diesel is usually costs more then premium fuel. If you add $1500 in CBU cleaning every 50K miles, the savings do not add up very fast.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

KeithS said:


> Forgot about the eco credit. But as mine was a former service loaner, the dealer took that.
> 
> In the NorthEast Diesel is usually costs more then premium fuel. If you add $1500 in CBU cleaning every 50K miles, the savings do not add up very fast.


I've run over 98K with no need for CBU. And it's $1200 not $1500. And the 335i needs CBU also. As long as diesel costs less than 20% or so more than premium, the diesel wins eventually, due to the better mileage.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Tell me who is buying very expensive cars to save on fuel & why?


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

floydarogers said:


> I've run over 98K with no need for CBU. And it's $1200 not $1500. And the 335i needs CBU also. As long as diesel costs less than 20% or so more than premium, the diesel wins eventually, due to the better mileage.


You have been one of the lucky ones not to need CBU cleaning. Don't get me wrong, I love the 335D and am keeping it for a long time. But it doesn't take much with any of the many emission control systems failing (such as the SCR system) to make the economics go south real fast. I will not agree as to what CBU cleaning costs until I actually have to pay for it. And I'm sure it varies greatly between areas and dealers within the area.

For this I have a perfect example. About 6 years ago I needed the valley pan gasket replaced in our 540. A very common issue. I asked 3 area BMW dealers how much it would cost. I got answers of $800, $1200 and $1600, for the exact same work. Guess which one I used. And that is the dealer I've been going to ever since and the one I purchased the 335D from. Their work on the 335D has been perfect, always correct the first time.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Problem coming from no good engine oil and dirty Fuel
Same things happening on gas engines 
All direct injection engines getting carbon problem
Soon appear big change 
BMW & Toyota working together * mini engines build by Toyota & Toyota using BMW Diesel engines for small cars
Last month Toyota singed contract with Mazda for Diesel engines from Mazda
Mazda Diesel & Gas engines not have EGR systems
Sounds interesting.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

KeithS said:


> You have been one of the lucky ones not to need CBU cleaning. Don't get me wrong, I love the 335D and am keeping it for a long time. But it doesn't take much with any of the many emission control systems failing (such as the SCR system) to make the economics go south real fast. I will not agree as to what CBU cleaning costs until I actually have to pay for it. And I'm sure it varies greatly between areas and dealers within the area.


Data please. Mechanics will tell you CBU is common but they mostly see only the engines with problems.

As I've said before, out of 10,000 335d's sold in NA, the relative handful found on web boards that complain of CBU is miniscule. None of the ones that do have it mention what kind of crappy low priced diesel they have been using, no matter if its at a high volume station or not, nor if they put magic potion (additives) to upset the balance needed in diesel fuel chemistry.

What I've heard about 335i fuel pumps, injectors, CBU, etc. has not been pretty either. There has rarely been a BMW that can be considered "reliable" given the company's penchant for engineering progressivism (read: pushing the engineering envelope). Want a more reliable brand, buy a Toyota: they don't take risks.

There is no excuse, however, for foreseeable problems, gasser or diesel, that should have come up with long term testing, and BMW should take note and provide solutions. But that which is commonly believed on web boards should not to be taken on faith alone.

My experience with direct injection diesels using brand name, volume stations: no CBU for 156,000 miles (2002 TDI), 230,000 miles (2005 CDI), 95,000 miles (2004 TDI PD), and 64,000 miles (335d) and only one fuel injector failure at about 120,000 miles on the Mercedes in cylinder #1 (perhaps exposure to the temperature fluctuations at the front of the engine contributed to a crack in the high pressure line). I use top tier brand fuel, no matter where its base stock is from, hopefully given its possibly better filtering and additives and do not mess with aftermarket additives. I also drive it "like a BMW" which is not too different from my old Carrera 3.2 days.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Your previous diesels run with out emission system so string what have BMW
When engine not burning fuel those not burned carbons getting to EGR plus oil vapors to the crankcase ventilation making wonderful compound for valves.
Why BMW rejected engine oil supply from Castrol & go with Shell?
Smart guys know what to do * Type of engine oils & fuel additives
I been talking about engine oils and how bad was BMW engine oil from Castrol
100% of peoples want to kill me
After that BMW announced different oil resupply and change from 10000 mile to 7000 mile oil change
Now those smart gurus not jumping up

Amsoil engine oil & additives are the best on the market.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

Just saw this http://www.hybridcars.com/will-america-avoid-europes-clean-diesel-problems/


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

LycanNyc said:


> Just saw this http://www.hybridcars.com/will-america-avoid-europes-clean-diesel-problems/


Don't bother, its just enviro-nazi hysteria. Final phrase of first paragraph, "... to curb emissions from a technology that could cause cancer."


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

LycanNyc said:


> Just saw this http://www.hybridcars.com/will-america-avoid-europes-clean-diesel-problems/


Very interesting & same time why?

Sample every USA or other country's governments are right by default
when getting to next election all dirt coming up to roof.

Same every organisation need say something and really no one know why?

All is business oriented & make huge profits 
Every new emission standards create more profits to rokietiers tiffs.
With out those urgent changes no progress of making money.

Audi have patent to produce fuel better from Gasoline or Diesel
Why no one is interested in new project?
Is much cheaper spread propaganda & charge more for cheap produced fuels.

I not really interested in those methods of clean air = I & we all needs clean aire 
where all changes become done with out planing huge profits by corrupted companies & governments.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

LycanNyc said:


> Just saw this http://www.hybridcars.com/will-america-avoid-europes-clean-diesel-problems/


Thanks for sharing that. It looks like a thorough discussion on the topic.


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

The Hybridcars article is effectively refuted by the Advanced Collaborative Emissions Study (ACES), Phase 3, which demonstrated not only no lung cancer over a lifetime exposure to concentrated exhaust from a 2007-compliant diesel truck engine, there were essentially no other effects of over 100 other heath markers.

http://www.healtheffects.org/Pubs/Press Release ACES 2015.pdf


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## bjbolduc (Dec 19, 2012)

I think cigarettes would also fit that criteria. The irony is that Europeans smoke quite a bit more than US


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

Diesel is about $0.50/gal cheaper than premium gas right now in my area, and no matter how hard I drive my 328d it never drops below 40mpg.

The torque kick is addicting, even with the 4. I am sticking to oil burners in the future.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

Flying Ace said:


> Performance wise, the 335d isn't even close to that of 335i. I've driven both and the 335i is hands down the better performance car. I would say if high performance and city driving is high on your list of "wants" for a car, then you should choose 335i.
> 
> IMO, the 335d is really for those with long highway commutes or those who take long trips.


The numbers don't agree with you. around town, the d is faster, unless you drive like a ricecar driver. 


Pierre Louis said:


> The 335d is the ultimate commuter car. Instant torque at lower RPM.
> 
> The 335i needs to be revved up to get the same torque (or less) so "performance" is good only if you drive like a race driver on the open road. Most don't.
> 
> Many don't know that at least in European trim (less weight?) a 335d is faster from 80 kph to 120 kph than an equivalent M3. May be due to gearing, but that is the BMW figure.





Flying Ace said:


> by revving up a 335i you mean going above 2000 rpms? The turbo in the 335i keeps torque numbers available throughout the band. You don't get a significant fall off until 5.5k.
> 
> http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1009_bmw_335i_335is_dyno_test/
> 
> ...


that depends on when and where you want your performance. if you want it off the line, and don't go to redline often, the diesel is superior up to about 4500rpm








even the NA v8, with a 120hp advantage doesn't stand a chance off the line. 







When I have a bit of fun (say, on an onramp), i typically limit myself to around 4k, because if I don't, I end up having to hit the brakes before I get to the end.



KeithS said:


> You have been one of the lucky ones not to need CBU cleaning. Don't get me wrong, I love the 335D and am keeping it for a long time. But it doesn't take much with any of the many emission control systems failing (such as the SCR system) to make the economics go south real fast. I will not agree as to what CBU cleaning costs until I actually have to pay for it. And I'm sure it varies greatly between areas and dealers within the area.
> 
> For this I have a perfect example. About 6 years ago I needed the valley pan gasket replaced in our 540. A very common issue. I asked 3 area BMW dealers how much it would cost. I got answers of $800, $1200 and $1600, for the exact same work. Guess which one I used. And that is the dealer I've been going to ever since and the one I purchased the 335D from. Their work on the 335D has been perfect, always correct the first time.


a friend of mine had a 335i N54, and needed CBU removed every 30k to perform as promised by the factory.


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

u3b3rg33k said:


> The numbers don't agree with you. around town, the d is faster, unless you drive like a ricecar driver.


Well said.

On paper the 328i seems much faster than the 328d. However when I drove the two back to back, the 328d (without a tune) felt a lot quicker. Maybe that's because I rarely go full throttle, and judge more on typical driving around town (1/3-1/2 throttle, keeping it under 3000-4000rpm).

From a stop the diesels simply pack a lot of torque. Majority of driving is done without WOT and reaching rev limiter. Going from the N54 to the N20 felt like a decent loss of low end power. N54 to the N47 wasn't as bad, but obviously the N47 is missing a lot of power towards redline compared to the N54. At the end of the day, only the N47 could soften the blow going from a 6cyl engine to a 4cyl engine, in regards to power from a stop.

With the racechip, the N47 handles driving around town very nicely. I don't miss the N54 as much.


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

If you you really want to get into the apples vs. oranges comparisons, the thing I love about the inline 6 diesel is the cost vs. benefit of modding, assuming you're going that route. A little time and money equals power and torque the gassers cannot hold a candle to.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

BlueC said:


> Well said.
> 
> On paper the 328i seems much faster than the 328d. However when I drove the two back to back, the 328d (without a tune) felt a lot quicker. Maybe that's because I rarely go full throttle, and judge more on typical driving around town (1/3-1/2 throttle, keeping it under 3000-4000rpm).
> 
> ...


:thumbup: great to hear this especially from someone who drove E90 328 (me too), 335i (n54) "i drove the 335is i fell in love" , N55 35i and now 328d . 
Do you regret it?


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## BlueC (Jan 13, 2007)

LycanNyc said:


> :thumbup: great to hear this especially from someone who drove E90 328 (me too), 335i (n54) "i drove the 335is i fell in love" , N55 35i and now 328d .
> Do you regret it?


Regret going from the N54 to N47? No. I miss the N54 at times, but the N47 has the advantage at using nearly half as much fuel (averaged 19-24mpg in the Z4 and 335i, 35-45mpg in the 328d), which is matters every second you're driving.

328d has a decent amount of torque when you pair it with a mod (racechip). I can accelerate just fine.


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

bjbolduc said:


> I think cigarettes would also fit that criteria....


That's typically the argument used to discredit any study which doesn't find health effects from new technology diesel engines (NTDE). However, most studies on the health effects of cigarette smoking concluded that cigarette smoking indeed caused lung cancer. Yes, there were a few studies funded by the cigarette manufacturers which disputed those conclusions, but it certainly was not the unanimous conclusion.

There are no studies of which I'm aware that have found any health effects from NTDE. A recent report by CARB, institutionally as bias against diesels as you can get, concluded that DPF technology effectively ELIMINATED PM from the exhaust of NTDE - "Evaluation of Particulate Matter Filters in On-Road Heavy-Duty Diesel Vehicle Applications" May, 2015, Finding "b" on Page 9. There's really nothing in the exhaust of NTDE that has the potential to cause lung cancer or any other chronic health effects.


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## bjbolduc (Dec 19, 2012)

I actually agree with you. My point is that Europeans have different concerns about health than the US (eg, no GMO food, concern over small particle diesel emissions) but generally smoke like chimneys.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

bjbolduc said:


> i actually agree with you. My point is that europeans have different concerns about health than the us (eg, no gmo food, concern over small particle diesel emissions) but generally smoke like chimneys.


+1


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## robster10 (Oct 8, 2012)

More smokers in Europe but do they smoke as much as North Americans do?


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

robster10 said:


> More smokers in Europe but do they smoke as much as North Americans do?


Much more.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

bjbolduc said:


> I actually agree with you. My point is that Europeans have different concerns about health than the US (eg, no GMO food, concern over small particle diesel emissions) but generally smoke like chimneys.


Ha Ha Ha Amerikan eating junk & Europeans eating healthy food
Emission standard not different in Europe Just American reading own way
What American done good & with logic?
Destroyed Cadillac image one of best cars on the world
Today build so much better from BMW & Mercedes and all American prefers to buy Hyundai and why?


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

Second long run with the x5d. from Houston to San Antonio. OBC say 19-20mpg at 73, cruise set all the way. RPM 2200. Same trip again today exact same figures. 
New GMC 4x4 is returning 24mpg on same route. thought 13 X diesel would be better than 14 gmc V-8 gas


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## Proconsul (Aug 2, 2015)

New X5d, work commute 30mi round trip or so, mixed interstate and city, routinely 28mpg - compared to previous V8 Lexus with 16-17mpg....


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## Dean_S (Mar 31, 2015)

Are you in Sport mode? RPM is too high!
Checked tire pressures?
You may need to clear trip computer to get mpg's reset.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

txagbmw said:


> Second long run with the x5d. from Houston to San Antonio. OBC say 19-20mpg at 73, cruise set all the way. RPM 2200. Same trip again today exact same figures.
> New GMC 4x4 is returning 24mpg on same route. thought 13 X diesel would be better than 14 gmc V-8 gas


Go take a look at what Fuelly folks are reporting for same vehicle. Houston to San Antone should be a cake walk for that car at 73mph. Maybe you are stuck in a regen?:dunno:


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

He is stuck in "I hate this thing and I will do nothing but complain about it no matter what" mode


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Hoooper said:


> He is stuck in "I hate this thing and I will do nothing but complain about it no matter what" mode


Maybe he's an Aggie?:rofl:


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

Hoooper said:


> He is stuck in "I hate this thing and I will do nothing but complain about it no matter what" mode


Poor Poor Poooper. Does nothing but complain about people who do not think
BMW is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its just a mass produced car
like millions of others.


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

Flyingman said:


> Go take a look at what Fuelly folks are reporting for same vehicle. Houston to San Antone should be a cake walk for that car at 73mph. Maybe you are stuck in a regen?:dunno:


Its could running the regen more often. They replaced the Def tanks, catalytic converter,
and other parts of the emission. Thought would do better than 19mpg. 
No your not witty. Txag does not stand for Aggie. It was a suggested name
by this site when signed up.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

txagbmw said:


> Poor Poor Poooper. Does nothing but complain about people who do not think
> BMW is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Its just a mass produced car
> like millions of others.


I actually don't really care for most BMWs :dunno: But its cute that you called me Poooper :thumbup:


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Proconsul, your mileage sounds unusually low especially for 73 mph. Any other X5rs know your mpg while during a regen? For my 335d, it was around 33 vs normally getting 40 to 42. Not an issue any more as my car has forgotten her alphabet. I try not to yell CBU too quickly like many here but you should be getting 28 especially as flat as it is between Hou and SA.


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## Proconsul (Aug 2, 2015)

BB_cuda said:


> Proconsul, your mileage sounds unusually low especially for 73 mph. Any other X5rs know your mpg while during a regen? For my 335d, it was around 33 vs normally getting 40 to 42. Not an issue any more as my car has forgotten her alphabet. I try not to yell CBU too quickly like many here but you should be getting 28 especially as flat as it is between Hou and SA.


Confusion here  - I'm not the 73mph chap - that would be txagbmw. And 28mpg is right on the money for an X5d with mixed driving, although now with some break in I find I'm actually doing a little better than that - maybe closer to 30 with Eco switched on 50% of the time. I expect a 335d would improve on that in a considerably lighter package. I'm pretty impressed comparing it to my big V8 Lexus, which never got better than 21, even highway cruising, with more expensive (here) fuel: diesel is about .50/gal cheaper than premium....


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## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

Oops, my comment was intended for txag. To be honest, I presumed this username connected txag to TAMU as well. No matter, sounds like quickest thing for him to do is get an app with dongle and look at EGTs to see if stuck in regen. Good luck


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