# Performance power kit 2.0 diesel n47



## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

I know a lot have been written about this theme. I have read it is not possible with serial ECU = to inject into serial ECU Alpina soft. There is no need of FSC code for it, so when I flashed entire car to latest F025-14-07-505, I have just tried to add HOWORT into FA, calculated FP (went well) and I tried in TAL calculation to compare SVT_IST to SVT_SOLL what will happend, if it will show update of DME - but not, it is not showing any update.
Its a bit strange ... I do not have PPK DME in my car so it should show update of files or not ?

Or another variant is, those files are not available in psdzdata .... so Esys show no update...

Did somebody already some power increase at N47 2.0 diesel engine ? Powerbox ? DME cannot be programmed at this time (at reasonable human costs). There is one german tuner which knows how to ... So any other tips ?


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

Just for try FDL coding also doesnt work - coding went well, with green result but DME is always back at "initwert".
"Leistungsklasse = Powerclass".


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

Will be following this topic as I have the same engine. The kit comes with a new dme, did you check if it's different hardware of just same but with diff sw?


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

```
02	Base control unit DDE EU5 Performance	721	1	06/2010	09/2011	13618515443		ENDED 	
02	Base control unit DDE EU5 Performance	721	1	06/2010	09/2011	13618518892			
02	Base control unit DDE EU5 Performance	701	1	09/2011	07/2013	13618515489			
	For vehicles with
BMW Diesel with Blue Performance	
S163A=Yes	
02	Base control unit DDE EU6 Performance	701	1	09/2011	07/2013	13618572469
```


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## kkaae (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi,

I have a F31 2.0D with a BMW fitted M performance pack that raises the output to 200 HK/420 NM.
Would you be interested in my DME CAFD file to compare?

The DME ECU can in fact be 'broken' to do a custom remap. I know one pro tuner who can and I have in fact a mate who have already had this done on an N47 with the MPPK. I am planning to have the same done myself. (still missing the torque from my previous E91 330D  )

I have on another forum asked if it is possible to copy/download the DME ECU firmware (customized after remap) from the ECU to a .BIN file to keep as a backup to allow me to change from custom to stock firmware with E-sys flash 
- so If you have any idea on how to do this, I'm very interested to hear about this


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

I know from other forum members that PPK for 3.0d do have different hardware. Because I have not physically any PPK DME in my hands I cannot say that it is same for 2.0d.

But first step I did - after complete flash I added PPK into FP - works, you can see at the picture above, but strange is, that TAL calculation doesnt show any update for PPK DME, as it should do if the hardware is different. This starts me thinking, if in this I-level it is not just matter of software ... but too easy to believe ... but you never know what BMW do in order to decrease the costs ...  (lovely downsizeing)

Other strange thing in this latest I-level is, that when calculating TAL for complete flash, going from 14-03-502 to 14-07-505, it was no difference if I have calculated TAL with my original factory FA or with retrofitted FA. (I retrofitted 609, 6WA, 4U2, IHKA HIGH, used ACSM)
Before that I have flashed going from 11-03-512 to 14-03-502 and it was not possible to calculate TAL with retro FA, have been necessary to use original FA for original ECUs to get upgrade and for retrofitted ECU retro FA. 
But for last flash it was no necessary - using both FA for calculations always same result. 

If the hardware is different, why Esys do not calculate different SW + HWEL ?????


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

kkaae said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a F31 2.0D with a BMW fitted M performance pack that raises the output to 200 HK/420 NM.
> Would you be interested in my DME CAFD file to compare?
> ...


YES, please post your DME(DDE) software configuration - swfl, cafd, hwel, etc..) so we can compare.

Then we will se what we can do.


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

If you can also show which VO's are added in your FA that would be perfect


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## kkaae (Sep 7, 2008)

I am on the road today, so I will update you tomorrow with the details from E-sys about my DDE config.

In the mean time, do you know if a tool exist that will allow me to extract/download the customized ECU firmware from the ECU to a .BIN file to be used later by E-sys to upload/flash the ECU with?


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

I am not aware of such a tool but if you look with e-Sys what swfl is in your DME you should be able to grab it from psdzdata\swe\swfl I guess


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## kkaae (Sep 7, 2008)

remko said:


> I am not aware of such a tool but if you look with e-Sys what swfl is in your DME you should be able to grab it from psdzdata\swe\swfl I guess


Yes, the psdzdata\swe\swfl might have the stock DME ECU firmware. However I want to download the customized firmware *from* the ECU. So I later can change between stock and customized firmware.


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

kkaae said:


> Yes, the psdzdata\swe\swfl might have the stock DME ECU firmware. However I want to download the customized firmware *from* the ECU. So I later can change between stock and customized firmware.


E-Sys should have the firmware for the performance DME as well since it's an original BMW part.


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## kkaae (Sep 7, 2008)

OK, let me try to explain in more detail 

I will take my car to a pro tuner that will build a custom DME/DDE ECU remap. He will first do a dyno and collect performance data of my car to build the customized remap from. He will then inject this remap into the ECU. He is using some special tools and software to do this and I am not sure he will produce a ECU firmware dump that is compatible with the .BIN format for E-sys to use to flash the ECU.
I will then go home with the remapped DME/DDE in the car. 
That's when I then want to extract/download/dump a firmware in .BIN format from the ECU. I will then both have a stock firmware (from the full daten set) and customized version with the remap, so I could change from custom to stock firmware and vice versa.

I hope my intentions are clearer to you now 

So my initial question still stands: Do a tool exist that will allow me to extract the customized ECU firmware to a .BIN file to be used later by E-sys to upload/flash the ECU with?

Thanks again for any feedback on this


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

For what i understood the PPK DDE has an hardware check inside to be recognized as a PPK part.

About the opportunity to read the PPK custom .bin, it will not be an issue. Once read its SWFL file into SVT (we wait for kkaae Svt), we can find it into PsDZdata. Each swfl has three files; one of them has the bin word inside its name. That file has the engine management values.
The matter is:
A) How decrypt that file. Someone was able;
B) once edited that file, the big problem is to sign it with a valid RSA signature and after encrypt just another time with the right checksum.
Why to edit the PPK swfl? Because to make it working in a normal DDE, we need to delete the hardware checking!
BTW for my swap by 523i to 530i i tried that way (edit 523i swfl with 530i read swfl values) unless any result. I'm not a tuner but i engagged many of them...


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

@kkaae, i just read your latest post.
So you didn't buy a PPK kit but you tuned your own DDE swfl.
If i understood correctly, esys will not have any Solution for your question!
But if your tuner is able to work on your swfl file ad i described, you could ask him to edit the original swfl outside the DDE, working directly on that bin file taken into PsDZdata folder.


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

I think @kkaae means he has M Performance Power kit now but still wants do to tuning . I would say it's a waste of the power pack, better have your original dme tuned?


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

remko said:


> I think @kkaae means he has M Performance Power kit now but still wants do to tuning . I would say it's a waste of the power pack, better have your original dme tuned?


BTW, esys will not give him the opportunity for reading the customized swfl, if his tuner will work directly over the DDE.
Instead i think that PPK will be a better point to start tuning, thank to the bigger intercooler.
But the best Solution could had been buy only the intercooler and tune the original DDE.

I'm not really sure that is possible to tune Fxx series dme/DDE, however... Are you sure?


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

There seems to be one german tuner who can brute force dme. They swsp dme to make orocess faster for customer. 


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

kkaae said:


> OK, let me try to explain in more detail
> 
> I will take my car to a pro tuner that will build a custom DME/DDE ECU remap. He will first do a dyno and collect performance data of my car to build the customized remap from. He will then inject this remap into the ECU. He is using some special tools and software to do this and I am not sure he will produce a ECU firmware dump that is compatible with the .BIN format for E-sys to use to flash the ECU.
> I will then go home with the remapped DME/DDE in the car.
> ...


This question can be answered : BMW ECU Explorer. But I do not have it.

Do not forget that you need to get CPS (Coding Prüfstempel) for DME. I am not sure that with dump from another ECU with different serial number you will be able to get it working in another one. But again, BMW Explorer is may be a solution. May be somebody who have seen this soft working can comment more ?

Yes, as I wrote above, in Germany is a tuner who opened DME for tuning. But I already mentioned this is not available at reasonable costs ...


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

"customized version with the remap, so I could change from custom to stock firmware and vice versa."

Something like this also my intention. Using 4U2 I would like to let Comfort and Eco Pro at original BMW stock values and with activating Sport and Sport+ to activate customized firmware. But may be it is only dream. But using ICM and CAN signal which activate Sport mode it should be possible.


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

As says Shawn - it needs to bite a bullet ....

This matter excites me so I think I will go and buy used DDE and will grill it untill it will be complete burned off 

@maisav, you have also been playing with used DME, did you buy with it also CAS or have you been able to sync it using ISTA ?


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

Unfortunately my DME (Siemens MSD87.1) isn't into ECU Explorer list.

So i was not able to read by my old DME the secret key and write it into the used DME.

I only was able to flash the used DME with my VIN and 528i firmwares. Not more...

New DME for Fxx serie must be ordered with car VIN, so they will come already aligned with CAS4. Only BMW Munich can do this job....


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

BTW, @standa, what are your DDE Data Status values read using Rheingold?

Have you tried to read them?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

standa said:


> as says shawn - it needs to bite a bullet ....


So true...


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

maisav said:


> BTW, @standa, what are your DDE Data Status values read using Rheingold?
> 
> Have you tried to read them?


I will.


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

standa said:


> I will.


:rofl: i thought already yes :rofl:

It seemed to you to be simple in kkaae's car :rofl:

I can say that exciting job requires to be very brave :thumbup:


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

May be yes may be not. But nobody of us knows how it works, who never tried never know.


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

BTW i didn't use that rheingold command, but i'm pretty sure that command uses tool32 .prg jobs.
Because i used almost all .prg jobs for my Dme i think that DATA STATUS will show some not usefull informations: km, Time counter value, firmware names, last date and km for programming action.
If you will try it, let us know ...


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

@ maisav
Those values are not completely useless.
I mean at least we can see difference in nominal values of serial ECU and PPK ECU.
Ofcourse if kkaae will be so kind and will provide us with his values of PPK DDE.
Then we will see what is changed in PPK versus searial DDE.
My interest are rail pressure, air press etc.


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

standa said:


> @ maisav
> Those values are not completely useless.
> I mean at least we can see difference in nominal values of serial ECU and PPK ECU.
> Ofcourse if kkaae will be so kind and will provide us with his values of PPK DDE.
> ...


Understood. I'm interested too. But how manage them?

You are analizing the effect, not the cause. Where and how inject a different value for rail pressure, air pressure, etc. ?

Before there was the EGR adjustment value (by -40 to + 40), but someone that changed it had few power gain and big petrol consumption.

Instead, i was thinking some weeks ago, about the opportunity to change the injectors correction values.

For what i saw, they are the only engine management values that can be changed. But, onestly the risk is too high for damaging the engine, changing values unless any cognition. At least, i don't have the know how to understand how change those values taking a little bit more power without break nothing.....

Any advice is accepted!


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

maisav - be patient on results of kkaae.
Then we can compare what are the measures of factory to increase power. Yes a few from 135 to 147 kW but hopefully we will see it. And it will bring a light into our question.
For instance, I have a motorcycle BMW G650x - I got more power just changing the injector with a bigger inject hole (and adjusting intake manifold to get more fresh air) simple to describe but it was more complicated.. Ofcourse this comparison was based on same - compare factory values ... with a one for Dakar.

kkaae please show us your values so we can get further... thanks


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

maisav said:


> Understood. I'm interested too. But how manage them?
> 
> You are analizing the effect, not the cause. Where and how inject a different value for rail pressure, air pressure, etc. ?
> 
> ...


Forget Esys and Rheingold. Lets wait what are values of kkaae. Then we will be able to determine what a soft we should use to change parameters. It will be similar to 6WA retrofit  ofcourse not flashing procedure but overwriting HEX values....


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

standa said:


> Forget Esys and Rheingold. Lets wait what are values of kkaae. Then we will be able to determine what a soft we should use to change parameters. It will be similar to 6WA retrofit  ofcourse not flashing procedure but overwriting HEX values....


I can imagine... 
Now off topic question! About f10 m5 6wa retrofit on 530i, have you any clue?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

///M Kombi, which is not 6WA (nor 6WB) as it is standard Equipment and has no option code, can work in a non M car, but with serious limitations. On ///M car, FDS signal comes from DME, and not ICM, and Gear position comes from DKG instead of EGS, so Gear Display and FDS Display's would not work. And without ///M Steering wheel, you won't have the M1 and M2 buttons. This to me makes it not worthwhile.


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## kkaae (Sep 7, 2008)

standa said:


> @ maisav
> Those values are not completely useless.
> I mean at least we can see difference in nominal values of serial ECU and PPK ECU.
> Ofcourse if kkaae will be so kind and will provide us with his values of PPK DDE.
> ...


Here are some dumps from my MPPK DDE ECU.

Is there a way to dump all ECU values to a log file, that I could send to you?


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> ///M Kombi, which is not 6WA (nor 6WB) as it is standard Equipment and has no option code, can work in a non M car, but with serious limitations. On ///M car, FDS signal comes from DME, and not ICM, and Gear position comes from DKG instead of EGS, so Gear Display and FDS Display's would not work. And without ///M Steering wheel, you won't have the M1 and M2 buttons. This to me makes it not worthwhile.


Then to make it working fine, i could flash my DME with M5 firmware (taking 560ps) and EGS with DKG firmware (to use only 7 gears) :rofl::rofl::rofl:

I will forget this matter


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Do it! :bigpimp:


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

""""Instead, i was thinking some weeks ago, about the opportunity to change the injectors correction values."""""

I think you do not need at petrol engine manipulate with correction values in order to get higher injection volume. You can just change the injectors for similar ones with higher injection volume. I have attached xls table (rename pdf) with injector values so if you will recognize there yours actual you can choose then another ones comparing Q-stat (at operating pressure) (g/min)

Further, when comparing data of kkaae with mine, measures of factory to increase power are longer injection time and higher injection quantity of fuel and a pressure for VTG (turbine geometry).
So, this is the cause of increasing power with PPK.

As I am not going to start tuning business, I cannot invest into ECU Explorer in order to open DME for rewriting and other needed software to rewrite values and as last and important to buy know how values from Leibengineering. www.leib-engineering.de

When thinking about Powerboxes the cheapest ones are mounted on rail pressure sensor and MAP sensor. This solution I see like a bit not Ok for engine lifetime.
Another solution, which is nearly same as measures of factory are powerboxes which are mounted on each diesel injector - longer injection time and higher volume.

With PPK from factory we can get from serial 135kW to 147kW, which is not too much.
With powerboxes from Hartge or Schnitzer or Kelleners, we can get 160kW or 172 kW ,
the torque is always around 450 Nm plus/minus and influence on engine nearly same.


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

Wouldn't it be easier to flash 525d ECU software into 520d ? It looks more like the route that was taken to update 523i to 528i


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## maisav (Mar 31, 2013)

remko said:


> Wouldn't it be easier to flash 525d ECU software into 520d ? It looks more like the route that was taken to update 523i to 528i


Could be!
You have to study differences between the two engines! if i remember correctly, 525d two liters has twin stage turbo....
And after should be necessary to verify if two models have both the same leistungclasse (or varianten_config)....
If not you will have to verify if the DDE can be resetted for the fabulous Hours counter


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

I was already studying, it is 2,5d engine with 160kW/450Nm, (N47D20T1) you do not have to be affraid about powertrain as it is same like for 3.0d (transfer box, axle´s) so there is a space for more kW and Nm....
But because not having data from somebody car, we cannot compare the ECU, if it is different from our 2.0d - it is a question how the both turbos are managed, if it is just software or different hardware. 
Could be very helpfull if any owner of 525d can post his DME files...

N47D20T1
Bauzeit 2011 -
Bauart 4 Zylinder, 16 Ventile, Reihe,
Hubraum 1995cm³
Leistung 160kW (218PS) bei 4400/min
Drehmoment 450Nm bei 1750-2500/min
Verdichtung 16,5:1
Bohrung x Hub 84mm x 90mm
Treibstoff Diesel

N47D20O1
Bauzeit 2010 -
Bauart 4 Zylinder, 16 Ventile, Reihe,
Hubraum 1995cm³
Leistung 135kW (184PS) bei 4000/min
Drehmoment 380Nm bei 1750-2750/min
Verdichtung 16,5:1
Bohrung x Hub 84mm x 90mm
Treibstoff Diesel


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## BMWzone (May 11, 2013)

standa said:


> I was already studying, it is 2,5d engine with 160kW/450Nm, (N47D20T1) you do not have to be affraid about powertrain as it is same like for 3.0d (transfer box, axle´s) so there is a space for more kW and Nm....
> But because not having data from somebody car, we cannot compare the ECU, if it is different from our 2.0d - it is a question how the both turbos are managed, if it is just software or different hardware.
> Could be very helpfull if any owner of 525d can post his DME files...
> 
> ...


In F1x the differences between 2.0 L. and 3.0 L. are enormous, the whole front axle is different including suspension and steering box, haven't looked for F25, I suppose the same differences. 
Time ago I looked at the differences between 135 Kw and 160 Kw, remember that the categorical's monoblock (without accessories) is different in origin, and DDE is different.


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

I was talking about F25. Since beginning this thread.


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

I do not speak about suspension or steering nor axle as you described, avoid misunderstanding here are pictures. Just where the torque works.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

standa said:


> I was already studying, it is 2,5d engine with 160kW/450Nm, (N47D20T1) you do not have to be affraid about powertrain as it is same like for 3.0d (transfer box, axle´s) so there is a space for more kW and Nm....
> But because not having data from somebody car, we cannot compare the ECU, if it is different from our 2.0d - it is a question how the both turbos are managed, if it is just software or different hardware.
> Could be very helpfull if any owner of 525d can post his DME files...
> 
> ...


you need one more turbo for OEM flashing with 525d software but i don"t shure that hardware in DDE is same because 525d 4 cil is on LCI models . But with liitle more boost of your own turbo and more injection time on injectors and some more advance of SOI you will make your car 218hp for shure , i talk for chiptuning ( modifing your own software tables )


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## sbc55 (Jun 24, 2013)

Dont mind i borrow this thread. I have purchased a new dme f10 n20 to replace my spoilt dme. But when i install and use esys to check on the software and try to inject new cafd, esys prompted that one of the swfl file is missing swfl_0000102C_059_130_000. I have checked through all my psdzdata database from 49 till 56.3 but still cannot find this file.

So i tried tal calculation and found out that the missing swfl is not the original file that i had for the old dme. Esys shows another swfl which was my old swfl. Can i just flash my dme with esys recommendations? Will it have any implication? Thanks.


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