# Japanese Grand Prix Underway *SPOILERS*



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

FSelekler said:


> I am so glad Spoonface got the championship, I really like that guy and Ferrari. :thumbup:
> 
> On the same note, I almost hate JPM, cannot explain exactly why, but I think I do. He is too arrogant, definetly not elegant, and in my book not championship material as a person; unfortunately, he is as a driver.
> 
> Any how, *Hack -* you keep mentioning the "Williams chassis" but I think you'll agree that it was actually the "BMW engine and drive train" that gave up or came up short in the last three races  I think the chassis has gotten to be very stable towards the end of the seaoson.


So, you know JPM well enough to say that he has major personality flaws. And a six time WDC winner who will literally throw his car at someone attempting a pass him is somehow that much better? Michael Schumacher may go down in history as the best of all time. There's lots to admire about him. Ayrton Senna had his own version of the chop, so they all can do that. I've not seen JPM do it though. You have a right to your likes and dislikes. Only time will tell if JPM is championship material...but as a person? I've seen JPM at Indy appearances for BMW and he comes across very positively. I hope he stays with BMW.Williams, but I'll always like him.

Just to set the record straight though, they had hydraulic failure in Japan not a drive train failure. BMW.Williams hasn't had any other failures for a while. Not sure what you mean by BMW coming up short in the last three races. Speed is more than just drive train.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

SteveT said:


> So, you know JPM well enough to say that he has major personality flaws. And a six time WDC winner who will literally throw his car at someone attempting a pass him is somehow that much better? Michael Schumacher may go down in history as the best of all time. There's lots to admire about him. Ayrton Senna had his own version of the chop, so they all can do that. I've not seen JPM do it though. You have a right to your likes and dislikes. Only time will tell if JPM is championship material...but as a person? I've seen JPM at Indy appearances for BMW and he comes across very positively. I hope he stays with BMW.Williams, but I'll always like him.
> 
> Just to set the record straight though, they had hydraulic failure in Japan not a drive train failure. BMW.Williams hasn't had any other failures for a while. Not sure what you mean by BMW coming up short in the last three races. Speed is more than just drive train.


I have to agree...Some of the negative perception about JPM probably comes from some of his on camera, off track excursions (the words "YOU F**KIN' IDIOT" comes to mind?). Sure, he thinks he's the best driver around. His driving backs him up most of the time. Is that arrogance? You may call that, but I think it's confidence. His tirades? Call that a personality flaw, but I think that's part of the fire that makes him a good driver.

I think JPM gets a bad rap from Ferrari fans because he is the biggest threat with the biggest personality (or ego) on the circuit right now. I'm sure if Kimi has half a personality, Ferrari fans will be all over his case too. JPM is just an easy target. Or if Jacques can still drive.


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

Did anyone catch the pre-race coverage? I believe Peter Windsor asked JPM the following (not in exact words but the similar):

PW: So, who would you like to see win the championship?

JPM: Myself.

PW: No really. Other than yourself, who would you like to see?

JPM: I don't care. 

(at this point, Peter's mic was still pointing towards JPM).

JPM with a smile: I really don't care.

And then he overtook Rubens with a blink of the eye, that was something. Then everytihng went into great depression after Lap 9.


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> Did anyone catch the pre-race coverage? I believe Peter Windsor asked JPM the following (not in exact words but the similar):
> 
> PW: So, who would you like to see win the championship?
> 
> ...


 Yeah, that was pretty great. I can see how his on-camera persona can come off as terribly arrogant, but I like that about him. It makes him a competitor.

And watching him fly past Rubens, then start to build a huge lead, was awesome.


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

Jetfire, yup...but I think his arrogance was tainted with bitterness from the last race. There was this bitter-sourness in the air. Just look at Kimi's face and body language during the interview.

In view of Game Theory, as much as this race was non-cooperative, I think there was a non-verbal asymtoptic agreement (coopetition if you will) to keep spoonface way behind. Just look at Sato. What he did may be for his own good, but was also for the good of the rest. Which in turn allowed Ralf to take advantage of the situation to be aggressive. 

It would have been interesting to see what Sato will do when Ralf was behind, instead of spoonface.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> Did anyone catch the pre-race coverage? I believe Peter Windsor asked JPM the following (not in exact words but the similar):
> 
> PW: So, who would you like to see win the championship?
> 
> ...


I just thought his point was he was only concerned about his own performance...he just didn't care about any other result.

I think Hack is right. The Ferrari fans don't like JPM because he is unimpressed by Michael and consequently they've had runins. For some reason Kimi hasn't had the head to head situations with Michael that Juan has.

I thought Sato was just racing though, and Michael was pretty dumb to stick his nose in with such a small opportunity to get by. I can only assume that he thought Sato would just move over for him...and he didn't...sorry.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Being unimpressed by another driver doesn't make you cool. You have to win as well.

I know most of you guys hate Michael. If he said 'I don't care' he'd be called arrogant, but when JPM says that, he's 'unimpressed' 

I'm a true Ferraristi, for me the team counts. Drivers come and go, but the team always stays.

But Michael is a talent, nomatter what you guys think. He is the *best* driver when it comes to preparing a car for the race. He is the best set-up expert, I have no doubt about this.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Being unimpressed by another driver doesn't make you cool. You have to win as well.
> 
> I know most of you guys hate Michael. If he said 'I don't care' he'd be called arrogant, but when JPM says that, he's 'unimpressed'
> 
> ...


That's all part of being a fan. Heck, I'm sure people who follow baseball in America probably think Barry Bonds is the biggest d*ck in the universe, but I think he's mis-understood. We're fans. We tend to see things through tinted glass.

Frankly, I think Spoonface gets away with a lot of things that any other driver would be penalized for. That pass under yellow at USGP, that blocking manuever at Suzuka, that little push incident at Hungaroring (or was it Hockenheim?)...:dunno:


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

I have to agree with Hack on this one. Schumacher is probably one of the dirtiest drivers in F1 history. Now before you Ferrari fans jump all over me, Senna, who is my all time favorite, was even more vicious. I wonder how long many of these drivers would have lastest during a more dangerous F1 period. I think they would have had to change their styles to survive.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

richard said:


> I have to agree with Hack on this one. Schumacher is probably one of the dirtiest drivers in F1 history. Now before you Ferrari fans jump all over me, Senna, who is my all time favorite, was even more vicious. I wonder how long many of these drivers would have lastest during a more dangerous F1 period. I think they would have had to change their styles to survive.


Yeah, but that's why we're still mourning after Senna and that's what made him different from others. He had the balls, others didn't.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Being unimpressed by another driver doesn't make you cool. You have to win as well.
> 
> I know most of you guys hate Michael. If he said 'I don't care' he'd be called arrogant, but when JPM says that, he's 'unimpressed'
> 
> ...


No matter what any of us think. No one can argue with six WDC's.

I don't hate Michael or Ferrari. I've wanted to see them having to really work for their wins. This year that has started to happen. Some are saying it's because Michael's getting older, others it's the improvement in the cars. Racing is about competition. With Bridgestone really only producing tires for the Ferrari chassis as in 2002, I felt there was something wrong. Sure, Bridgestone can say the other teams don't test or they can adapt their chassis to the tire, but that's really a copout. It's to Michelin's credit that they took such a big step up last winter. Michael has assembled a strong team around Ferrari. His Benetton WC technical team moved over to Ferrari with him. To his credit and Ferrari's benefit.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

SteveT said:


> I don't hate Michael or Ferrari.


I do. I hate them both. Really.     

Just kidding.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Seriously though, it was a total bummer watching JPM slow down and have to park it so early in the race. After he passed Rubens he was just GONE and barring mechanical failure looked like he would have won the race. That would have kept the constructors battle in play and Ralf's driving would have been much more meaningful in the back of the pack. Still bummed.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

*My $.02 on Schumacher discussion*

I'm not a big Schumi fan, I made it clear many times but there is no denying that right now he is the best driver out there. He probably doesn't have the raw talent that JPM, Kimi or Alonso have. He certainly is not the fastest driver out there but he has advantages over the other guys that make him the best overall and he proved it once again with another title.

I think one area where Michael really stands out is the way he works with the team and the feedback he gives during car development. He's masterful in bringing people together and motivating them. I don't think something like this comes with experience, you either have it or you don't.

As far as car setup that Alex mentioned, I don't think he had it right this season. He often went with Rubens settings and tweaked them to his liking. Maybe the chassis didn't suit his style, maybe tires played some role in it :dunno: but he was much better in the past.

One more thing that is worth mentioning is his fitness, the guy is a freak. Younger guys, especially Montoya, have a lot to learn from him in that matter.

Funny thing is that when I look at Schumi one thing that really annoys me is that he gets away with so many things that others would be crucified for but it really isn't his fault... 
Man, I really hate Max Mosley, that little b!tch...


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

I really don't dislike Michael, I'm just tired of one driver and team winning all the time. It's boring. This year was much better and I hope the other teams make good progress over the winter. Even when Senna and Prost were dominant with McLaren it only lasted a year. Williams and Ferrari were a least in the fight when Mclaren won it's other championships. Plus, it wasn't just one driver winning all the time. I haven't really looked at what the results would be under the old points system but I suspect Michael would have walked the Championship again. So to me the this years results were sort of contrived.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Alex,

Is the German press saying anything about Ralf's end of season performance? I guess you could call it somewhat circumstantial, but from England on he didn't do too well. After two victories, he had a fourth, the collision in Hungary and the accident in practice for Italy. Not too much to show for the last third of the year after a strong middle section. Juan got a shot at the WDC because he continued to collect points. Despite all this there's been the consistent rumor that BMW.Williams is again renegotiating his contract. This has been denied. The renegotiation talk may be put out by his agent. There was also the Toyota talk, etc. Montoya has been unhappy that Ralf is getting about three times what he is and this is fueling the discussion about his move to McLaren. Ralf has seemed to fade in the end of the last few seasons. He really did drive hard to chase Michael and seemed to be faster. It's actually a shame that he didn't pull of a pass just to silence this kind of discussion.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

It looks like Schumacher brothers had a "nice" celebration party with Ralf throwing TV set through the window :yikes: Nice going, guys! :tsk: 

There must be something true about the reports of JPM taking DC's place at McLaren next year. Coulthard, very marketable guy, who always is present for all team activities for sponsors, didn't attend McLaren's season ending party and left Japan very early...


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## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

What it is...one thing we ALL have to agree is that Ferrari better start to worry mor about. McLaren, Willaims and Renault are closing in. Next season will be more interesting to watch.

But one thing is almost quite certain. If something doesn't go the RED way in the next season, they will prompt an investigation of some sort.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> What it is...one thing we ALL have to agree is that Ferrari better start to worry mor about. McLaren, Willaims and Renault are closing in. Next season will be more interesting to watch.


All three of them Michelin teams. I wonder if BAR will improve any working with Michelin over Bridgestone?


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Wouldn't you like to see that switch:










Montoya to Ferrari!!!

LOL


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