# Audi S4 vs E46



## Terry Kennedy (Sep 21, 2002)

NP2004 said:


> Yeah I totally agree the customer service/ dealers at Audi dealerships seem to believe unless you have the cash in your hands your not worth their time to approach. I walked around inside the showroom for over 30 minutes and finally had to ask a dealer walking by to show me the A4 you gotta love this service compared to BMW were as soon as you step in people ask you if you need assistance.


It is difficult to generalize, as there are excellent (and horrible) dealers out there for all brands, but I had a similar experience when I was shopping for a new car in NY. At the Audi dealer, I walked in and looked at the various cars in the showroom. After 5 minutes or so, one of the salesmen detached himself from the clump of salesmen and ambled over. I opened with "what do I have to do to get you to sell me a car today?"  which got a rather nervous laugh out of him.


> In regards to the comparison Audi overall isnt to impressive in any of their models the A4 can barely get someone 6 feet or taller to fit without their elbow out the window compared to a 3 series which has plenty of room, the S4 cant be compared to the M3 because quality wise their is no comparison you look inside and its clearly visible that the S4's interior and ergonamics are horrible.


I'm 6'1", so for grins, I tried the TT first. Amazing - I can hit my head on the roof liner _and_ trip over the door sill in the same movement... Then I tried an A4, and my right knee was squished up between the steering wheel and the center console. I told the salesman "as much as I want to consider this car, if I can't fit in it, no deal". He replied "We hear that a lot".

At the BMW dealer, I tried the X5, 5-series sedan, and the 3-series wagon, and was most comfortable in the 3-series wagon (which is what I wound up with). I'd gone to the BMW dealer to "kick the tires" on a couple models, as it wasn't the dealer closest to my house but was the closest dealer to my business partner's house. I figured I could afford to piss off the salesman since I wasn't going to buy there. But he won me over by giving me his complete attention for over an hour, so I bought the car there. Every time I go in, I'm greeted by name by everyone - sales, service, parts and they ask me how everything is.

Note that I'm in my 40's and tend to look a bit scruffy (t-shirt, dockers, work boots, usually a couple days worth of beard stubble). He didn't seem to care at all, until the point where he was preparing the sale agreement and said "and how will you be paying for this?" and I said "Well, since I'm unemployed..." (actually, I retired at 40 after selling my company) and his face fell, and I continued "... so I guess I'll give you cash - is that Ok?"


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## mscoins (Oct 11, 2003)

Terry Kennedy said:


> Note that I'm in my 40's and tend to look a bit scruffy (t-shirt, dockers, work boots, usually a couple days worth of beard stubble). He didn't seem to care at all, until the point where he was preparing the sale agreement and said "and how will you be paying for this?" and I said "Well, since I'm unemployed..." (actually, I retired at 40 after selling my company) and his face fell, and I continued "... so I guess I'll give you cash - is that Ok?"


Very similar to my story, except I am in my late 50s and told her I was retired vs. unemployed.


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## ieboy (Jan 11, 2004)

I agree with the panache thing with BMW. Since I've gotten rid of my G35, everyone at work has been saying the usual..."must be doing well to get a bimmer...boy, you must have gotten a promotion...etc." But little do they know, now that I'm out of my lease (cost a few $$ upfront to get out) my payment has actually gone DOWN. Funny how no one recognizes that the sticker on my 325 and my G35 were less than $200 apart. Oh well to each his own. I can have the car I've always wanted and they can have their envy all day long :thumbup: .


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## Xyrium (Apr 4, 2004)

I'm stunned you dumped G for a 325. The G35 is a very good handling vehicle. Additionally, it will take a 325 quite handily give the power disparity between the two. What was your reasoning for the move to the 3? I'm just curious, as I like both cars.


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

*Dude, what are you SMOKING???*



NP2004 said:


> Yeah I totally agree the customer service/ dealers at Audi dealerships seem to believe unless you have the cash in your hands your not worth their time to approach. I walked around inside the showroom for over 30 minutes and finally had to ask a dealer walking by to show me the A4 you gotta love this service compared to BMW were as soon as you step in people ask you if you need assistance. In regards to the comparison Audi overall isnt to impressive in any of their models the A4 can barely get someone 6 feet or taller to fit without their elbow out the window compared to a 3 series which has plenty of room, the S4 cant be compared to the M3 because quality wise their is no comparison you look inside and its clearly visible that the S4's interior and ergonamics are horrible. My friend has the RS6 and aside from the engine I was beyond dissapointed in the cheap materials for the interior and how everything inside was just a cluster of things everywhere including the cheap cup holder next to the radio that you push and it comes out. Even in the Audi A8L take a look at the steering wheel it looks like something out of a station wagon from the 80's. Audi has a long way to come before they can be compared to BMW or even Mercedes and now that other cars have similar systems to their quattro their brand image is wearing away quickly.


Friend, I own both Audi and BMW products: the Audi lasted the longest in our family, with no immediate plans to sell it - what does that tell you? That the build quality is worse?

I am not sure what to say about the RS6 comment: I have sat in one and played with the controls. I have rarely seen better materials or finishing in any car, at any price, from any manufacturer. Quite a different experience from yours - are you sure it was an RS6 you went in?

And the A4/S4 ergonomics and interior space is most emphatically NOT worse than BMW. My 98 A4 compares favorably (!) with my brand new 330 in terms of both. After almost 6 years. Nothing squeaks or rattles, all the materials look the same as in day 1, all electronics function perfectly.

I realize of course Audis are not perfect, far from it. But they usually excel in the areas that you found deficient, so I am left wondering how you could have missed that. I don't mind you not liking Audi in general, or that you have some beef with certain models in particular. But you have to come up with better arguments, because the ones you made are patently, demostrably simply not true.

Happy motoring,

adc
03 330 ZHP
98 A4 1.8TQMS


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## mowgli (Oct 22, 2003)

*S4 vs. 330 noticeability*



bmwisfast said:


> ok, hold the flames because I'm not talking about a race  . I'm talking about people noticing what you drive.
> here's the story, most of my fiends have relatively new cars, most of them imports, and a couple of them have Audi's S4. When we get together with frieds we haven't seen for a while, they always seem to remember what I drive and they don't seem to remember the S4 my friend drives. So I was just wondering, you personally get get more noticed driving a bimmer or one of your other cars? present or in the past.
> 
> :thumbup:


Funny you should ask this question...I had a 2001 S4 before purchasing my 2004 330CI. I was a bit frustrated at having a $42k car that most thought was a A4...(not great for biz). Truth be told, I believe the BMW is a better car and definitly has much more eye appeal!


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

mscoins said:


> Very similar to my story, except I am in my late 50s and told her I was retired vs. unemployed.


Must add to the above/below. The day we went in to order the 330ci we'd had a few, I hadn't shaved in two days, gotten fired from my job the week before, wife had on Harley gear and "how will you be paying" came up...cash of course. Thankfully, I've been dealing with the same bunch at the dealership for 20 years. We all had a good laugh.


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## bmwisfast (Mar 23, 2004)

maaan, you won't believe this. My friend that has the S4, just bought a VW GTI R32. I've never been in a GTI and at a first glance, it's way too small for my taste. very fast too. I mean it's nice and all, but I feel like the old days in high school. I guess that's why I have a bimmer now :thumbup:


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## bmwvek (May 9, 2004)

i like audis...


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## bmwvek (May 9, 2004)

but they are really slow....


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

When we bought my wife's 2000 528iT, we drove the A6 Wagon too. The A6 had a gorgeous interior, but that was it -- there was no comparision. :tsk: 

BMW handling was tight
A6 was loose

BMW was torquey and felt aggressive off the line
When stepping on the accerator pedal in the A6, it was like stomping a marshmallow

BMW was flat through turns and just wanted more
A6 wallowed through the twisties

BMW didn't make a creak or sound except for the sweet sound of the engine winding up and a nice throaty exhaust note
A6 had a creak and HORRIBLE wind noise at highway speeds

BMW brakes had great pedal feel, modulation and stopping power
A6 brakes were mushy and confidence sapping

So we paid $10K more, and waited 4 months for the BMW and it was worth every cent, and every minute waiting. The 528iT was sublime and looked as gorgeous on the day we sold it as the day we bought it. The design was timeless -- in fact, much better looking than the sedan We still miss it. :bawling: 

I guess we'll have to settle for the ZHP when it shows up...


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## sniper6182 (Apr 24, 2004)

Xyrium said:


> I'm stunned you dumped G for a 325. The G35 is a very good handling vehicle. Additionally, it will take a 325 quite handily give the power disparity between the two. What was your reasoning for the move to the 3? I'm just curious, as I like both cars.


G35 if a very good car...no doubt at all....i personally jsut got a 2004 330ci, my friend got a G35...both very recent...he said his car handles great, but it doenst compare to my 330ci...not sure if there's a difference in the handling between a 325 and a 330.....should be the same right?? i have not sat in the G35 or driven one...but that opinion came from a G35 owner himself...i believe he'll be coming into town this week with his G35 so i'll let yall know what my opinion is soon


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## bmwisfast (Mar 23, 2004)

I recently sat in a G35 coupe but it's nothing special. I didn't get to drive it so I can't really comment on the dynamics of the car, but the interior really left my unimpressed. I definitely think BMW has a much more sophisticated interior and better materials. And those amber looking digital displays look out of place, IMO. 

As for Audi, I think they have a great interior, now if the driving experience would match that, we may have a competitor  I think what really sets the Audi and BMW apart are the steering and braking feel. I don't think there are many cars out there that can match that.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Dynamically, the G's not bad. Steering and handling feel is not up to E46 level (well, at least SP level), however. And the seats are not as good. A good imitation.

The car that may actually be a spiritual successor to the previous-generation S4 may be the new Subaru Legacy GT. Try not to laugh too hard, as the sedan will weigh 3200 lbs, have AWD, 5-speed manual (and auto) and 250 hp and 250 ft/lb of torque. They also make a wagon variant.

But it won't have a prestigous badge attached to it.


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## cantona7 (Apr 8, 2004)

Hmmm...I actually think Audi makes the one of the best interiors. Also love the interior styling--if the industrial/retro-tech aesthetic is your cup of tea, that is. The new S4 actually looks, to my eyes, like the sharpest Audi ever next to the TT. That said, I didn't even consider Audi when I was shopping for my car. It was down to the G35 coupe and the E46. Audi was dismissed out of hand because they don't make a coupe other than the TT, which I thought too small. And at the end of the day, I always wanted a bimmer and figured this was the time to buy or I'd regret it. The interior of the E46 is nice enough--it's the overall car that stands on its own. I've never cared for the prestige factor and I actually wish that our cars weren't considered "flashy" or "extravagant" by non-enthusiasts. When people at work talk to me about cars, I always tell them that if they want a nice entry-luxury car, to get an Audi.


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## bmwisfast (Mar 23, 2004)

I really like the BMW interior and that's because it's un-cluttered, simple, and functional. I am not impressed with gimmicks, for example the analog "clock" in the Infinity. I mean, I think I can read the digital clock a lot better and faster than lean over to see the analog one. but that's just me; or plastic pieces made to resemble aluminum as in the case for the G35 steering wheel; that will eventually wear out and look bad. As for the Audi, they have a very nice balance of functionality and esthetics.


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## whitewagon (Mar 8, 2004)

I don't understand why there is so much Audi bashing. (maybe because this is a BMW forum)  

I actually drove the S4, I found the interior to be top notch in materials, and very comfortable for my 6'1" frame. The motor is incredible. Monster torque, from a fast revving and great sounding V8. 

As for quality, I don't really know. I consider it a long-term factor; you don't really know how much quality there is until parts stop working. My wife's TT never really had any problems. But it seems like the quality reality in all German cars is a step down from the average accord/camry. 

I say kudos' to Audi for making a super high performance small sized sedan/wagon. The closest thing bmw has is a ZHP 4 door and no wagon equivalent. And a similarly equipped ZHP only stickers a few grand less than a S4. I say that few grand is well worth the over 100 HP difference. The ZHP is a great car, but is not even in the same performance league as the S4. 

I only wish BMW had the balls to make a M3 sedan/wagon.


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## bmwisfast (Mar 23, 2004)

Normally I would agree with you, S4 performance is close to spectacular and not really close to an M3; 
And even though the S4 is a few gand more than the ZHP, taking into consideration the insurance cost, maintenance (because I'm sure S4 parts are more expensive than the A4 or ZHP), and fuel consuption, then it'll definitely be a very expensive vehicle to own when compared to a 330i for example. Did you know the new S4 mpg is like 16/21 !!!! man, you actually have to pay a gas-guzzler tax.

But then again it comes down to a matter of taste and how deep your pokets are. 

As a small side story, when I was looking around to get a car, it came down to either the 330i or the Lexus IS300. and 2 years ago I didn't really know much about these cars so my choise came down to fuel consumption. 18/28 for 330i vs 18/24 is300. Yes I know it's not much difference considering the money spent for the car, but I'm glad I stuck with my choise  otherwise I wouldn't be posting here...


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## Roadhawk (May 21, 2004)

OK boys - I'm going to have to agree with adc & cantona here - Audi interiors are simply about the best - particulalry on the 6 series and in the latest cars. And the Audis are in general really nice cars and in the same league as BMW. Yes Audi has taken a different route - using forced induction and with AWD and more gizmos perhaps - and BMW can be given credit for finess with its use of normally aspirated engines and supreme attention to handling/driving dynamics etc (but I wonder with Bangle now if this tradition will continue)...anyway both are fine cars.

And yes - in general - perhaps a BMW gets "noticed" or recognized more...(for what its worth...who are you trying to please anyway? etc) - but I must say - I get more comments and get into more conversations in/with/about my Audi S4 Avant then I do in/with/about my 64 Mustang convertable - and thats really saying something. I was shocked really at the level of interest in the car - gets looks from everybody and admiring coments from many (including this older English guy who actually got on his knees and bowed down to the car in reverence...really...well its badged as an RS4 and he thought it was one....)..anyway

And as for perfromance...well the S4 is a beast...and I can basically keep with any M car on the road (so has been my experience..actually its been more like them struggling to keep up with me!)....Hey I love BMW - always have..and can't wait to be sitting in/driving one of my own - but the Audi's have much going for them as well - both are fine cars....


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