# wheel weight make a big difference right?



## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Ok, I am about to pull the trigger on some new rims but I am still torn on whether to get the P1s or the Superleggera :dunno: Again both rims are pretty close in price. I like the looks of the P1 better but the weight of the superleggera is lighter. Both wheels are made by OZ and I would guess with the same process just the P1 have more material :dunno: . And I have heard some people complain that superleggera bending but you guys say no. I bent my TSW rims on my A4 and ended up ditching them so I dont want to go through that again. Like gary mentioned, things get distorted on the web so maybe the bending problem is blown out of proportion.

Gary, can you throw your 2 cents in? You guys used to sell the P1s so hopefully you know the pro/cons of each of them.

Thanks
Jeff


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> I bent my TSW rims on my A4 and ended up ditching them so I dont want to go through that again. Like gary mentioned, things get distorted on the web so maybe the bending problem is blown out of proportion.


Well, TSWs SUCK so it really shouldn't be an indication of wheel quality at all.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Here's my thought.

Lighter wheels are great if you're a performance FREAK. They're not always so great if you're after a smooth ride on a daily drive. After I put on my RGRs the first thing I noticed is how much harsher the car rides (and my previous wheels are the same size) and how it tends to react to every single little imperfection on the road. For a daily drive it's borderline. For track days they're the best, turn in and acceleartion as well as handling is dramatically improved in all aspect.

I'd say pick a style you like the most, and unless the weight difference is DRAMATIC (like 5lbs or more each) I wouldn't necessarily let the weight be a big deciding factor here.


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## [email protected] (Jun 10, 2003)

Thats a tough call. We have had excellent experience with both. Not much I can add here to help with the decision....


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## wrwicky (Jan 17, 2003)

The HACK said:


> Here's my thought.
> 
> Lighter wheels are great if you're a performance FREAK. They're not always so great if you're after a smooth ride on a daily drive. *After I put on my RGRs the first thing I noticed is how much harsher the car rides (and my previous wheels are the same size) and how it tends to react to every single little imperfection on the road.*


Hack,
I'm really suprised by this. I thought that there would be only improved ride from mounting lighter wheels due to less unsprung mass. Did you go to a stiffer tire when you swapped wheels? Is there any aother factor that could account for that? You sound pretty sure it was those wheels. In which case I know a guy who would probably trade some near new 135Ms for your RGRs


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Kaz said:


> Well, TSWs SUCK so it really shouldn't be an indication of wheel quality at all.


yeah I know  found that out the hardway. They where not expensive but they where not dirt cheap either 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

thanks for the replies, starting to lean towards the SL again. There is almost a 5 pound difference...


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## wrwicky (Jan 17, 2003)

Jeff,
I'm with AF, I just couldn't live with a wheel I knew was five pounds heavier. Although I am curious to hear further comments from Hack.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

edit: deleted


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

wrwicky said:


> Hack,
> I'm really suprised by this. I thought that there would be only improved ride from mounting lighter wheels due to less unsprung mass. Did you go to a stiffer tire when you swapped wheels? Is there any aother factor that could account for that? You sound pretty sure it was those wheels. In which case I know a guy who would probably trade some near new 135Ms for your RGRs


I love the RGRs. He'll have to pry them off my dead fingers if he wants them. 

The tires put on the RGRs have significantly softer sidewall compared to the S-03s that originally rode on the style 71s. I've spoken with a lot of people who swap between very light rims and moderately heavy rims and they all share the same experience: Lighter rims allow for more movement in the suspension upon impact, so as you go over surface irregularities the effect is more dramatice on very light rims vs. OEM rims. A lot of the increased harshness can not be attributed to tires thus I have come to the conclusion that significantly lighter wheels introduce more road noise and vibration. Keep in mind that these RGRs are almost 10 lbs lighter per wheel than my old Style 71s.

It used to be when I run over pot-holes, it's a simple "thump" with heavier OEM wheels. Now when I go over pot-holes, it's "thump-rattlerattlerattle". I've even swapped back my style 44s to confirm it's not broken suspension parts. It's not.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

The HACK said:


> I love the RGRs. He'll have to pry them off my dead fingers if he wants them.
> 
> The tires put on the RGRs have significantly softer sidewall compared to the S-03s that originally rode on the style 71s. I've spoken with a lot of people who swap between very light rims and moderately heavy rims and they all share the same experience: Lighter rims allow for more movement in the suspension upon impact, so as you go over surface irregularities the effect is more dramatice on very light rims vs. OEM rims. A lot of the increased harshness can not be attributed to tires thus I have come to the conclusion that significantly lighter wheels introduce more road noise and vibration. Keep in mind that these RGRs are almost 10 lbs lighter per wheel than my old Style 71s.
> 
> It used to be when I run over pot-holes, it's a simple "thump" with heavier OEM wheels. Now when I go over pot-holes, it's "thump-rattlerattlerattle". I've even swapped back my style 44s to confirm it's not broken suspension parts. It's not.


darn 10 pounds per wheel, can you feel the difference in acceleration too?


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## wrwicky (Jan 17, 2003)

The HACK said:


> I love the RGRs. He'll have to pry them off my dead fingers if he wants them.
> 
> The tires put on the RGRs have significantly softer sidewall compared to the S-03s that originally rode on the style 71s. I've spoken with a lot of people who swap between very light rims and moderately heavy rims and they all share the same experience: Lighter rims allow for more movement in the suspension upon impact, so as you go over surface irregularities the effect is more dramatice on very light rims vs. OEM rims. A lot of the increased harshness can not be attributed to tires thus I have come to the conclusion that significantly lighter wheels introduce more road noise and vibration. Keep in mind that these RGRs are almost 10 lbs lighter per wheel than my old Style 71s.
> 
> It used to be when I run over pot-holes, it's a simple "thump" with heavier OEM wheels. Now when I go over pot-holes, it's "thump-rattlerattlerattle". I've even swapped back my style 44s to confirm it's not broken suspension parts. It's not.


WOW! 
I'm totally intrigued by this. I'll bet that could totally be dialed out with shock valving and spring rates but I wouldn't ever have guessed there would be a ride downside. I just figured that although the lower mass could be better controlled with less damping, the lighter wheel mass would still settle down quicker no matter what. I can totally visualize why the wheel is tracking more surface irregularities, but the lighter mass means the chassis (what you can feel) _should_ be disturbed less than before.

IIR you have PSS9s. If so, and they work like my old Ground Control setup, ride height is adjusted by changing preload (on really cool race setups those are independent). If all of that is true, you could fiddle with running less preload (lower height), or try damping changes (I think those PSS9s only change rebound) in either direction. Normally I would guess less damping to control less mass, but it sounds like too little rebound for the amount of preload from the symptom you describe. So, if it won't scrape, lower, if not an option is to try more rebound. Just a couple of suspension ideas from a semi-anonymous dude who loves sorting suspensions. Sorry for the unsolicited advice, but your light wheel - bad ride phenomenon has my geek side totally excited.


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## wrwicky (Jan 17, 2003)

RS2 said:


> You need shocks with bump (compression) adjustment to be able to compensate for the change in unsprung weight.
> 
> /RS2


RS2,

That is a great outline of how to get dialed in from zero with double adjusters, and when possible we should make sure the springs are right for a given application first.

I agree it would be better to have a compression adjustment but I think that will require a very expensive change for most people with wheel upgrades (including the Hackmeister). In fact once you get used to high and low speed adjustments, it seems barbaric to only have one adjustment for compression but I digress. Suffice it to say, if someone asks you if you would like to buy some Penske triple adjusters, say YES!

In the absence(SP?) of that adjuster, the next best bet would be a custom revalve from somebody who really knows what they're doing which is hard/inconvenient (how do you store your car for a week or two without your dampers) and only moderately expensive.

Barring that, the folks with single-adjusters and coilovers can try the procedure I outlined understanding that it is heavily compromised since preload adjustments affects ride height which has a very narrow window of acceptability. I stand by my diagnosis that reducing preload can mimic reducing compression damping in some ways and may make a car that's changed to lighter wheels ride and handle better.

Thanks for the great set up guidelines, even if someone doesn't have double adjuster shocks that's a great guide to analyze a cars behavior.


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