# Does the BMW emperor have no clothes.....



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

If we are really honest aren't BMWs overpriced, under featured and unreliable and the company is really customer indifferent? I mean read these threads. I know all car forums have complaints but really a car company that wants 5-10 grand in some instances just to issue an insurance policy on their own reliability of their own product? A car that is over engineered and overly complicated for no real reason and that the consumer pays heavily for it in repairs and maintenance. Now if you are going to say buy something else, don't bother. Thats not the point...


----------



## Zeichen311 (Mar 31, 2011)

anselansel said:


> If we are really honest aren't BMWs *overpriced, under featured and unreliable* and the company is really customer indifferent?


No, no and emphatically no, respectively, in my experience, else I wouldn't have bought four of them to date--three for the long haul. As for customer indifference, again in my experience I have seen anything but. Sorry if the road has been different for you.


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

I am just asking, i have seen bmw 5 series offered for 55k with no leather, no nav and if you want an extended warranty, its 3-4k dollars. Would you at this price point think that was a good deal? i also see thread after thread about this was acrappy engine, that was a crappy engine and this is coming from a wealthy company that prides itself as the ultimate driving machine....


----------



## DjD-X5 (Nov 4, 2015)

I bought a used X5 CPO from one dealership and get it serviced at another! I have been treated with complete respect when at either dealership and gotten better customer support than any of the other dealerships for at least a dozen new cars I've owned. Loaner cars during servicing and when there is a problem as well as customer support are worth the cost of admission but then overall the BMW is really a lot nicer car than one that costs considerably less! Sure the dealership tries to up sell warranty and maintenance but so does every box store selling consumer goods from cameras to household appliances! As for the issues reported in the forums, a loud handful of complaints vrs thousands of silent happy customers... Expensive parts? Maybe but then if a $60k BMW part cost the same as the same $40k Chevrolet part there would be something wrong! YMMV


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

DjD-X5 said:


> I bought a used X5 CPO from one dealership and get it serviced at another! I have been treated with complete respect when at either dealership and gotten better customer support than any of the other dealerships for at least a dozen new cars I've owned. Loaner cars during servicing and when there is a problem as well as customer support are worth the cost of admission but then overall the BMW is really a lot nicer car than one that costs considerably less! Sure the dealership tries to up sell warranty and maintenance but so does every box store selling consumer goods from cameras to household appliances! As for the issues reported in the forums, a loud handful of complaints vrs thousands of silent happy customers... Expensive parts? Maybe but then if a $60k BMW part cost the same as the same $40k Chevrolet part there would be something wrong! YMMV


I know there are many happy customers but my questions remains, and why the great reluctance to OWN a bmw, even from bmw fans? 50k miles is peanuts for a well built car. the dealership acted like i was a fool not to buy a warranty for my bmw. I eventually did buy a IMO a horribly overpriced warranty because i plan on keeping mine till 100k miles and researched the ridiculous costs of repairing a bmw.


----------



## DjD-X5 (Nov 4, 2015)

anselansel said:


> I know there are many happy customers but my questions remains, and why the great reluctance to OWN a bmw, even from bmw fans? 50k miles is peanuts for a well built car. the dealership acted like i was a fool not to buy a warranty for my bmw. I eventually did buy a IMO a horribly overpriced warranty because i plan on keeping mine till 100k miles and researched the ridiculous costs of repairing a bmw.


Selling expensive warranty has nothing to do with quality of car! If a guy can afford a $60k- $80k car he is not going to blink twice at additional coverage! Funny thing is the extend coverage for the Chevrolets and Nissans I have owned cost the same as the ones sold by BMW. And just like BMW the dealership has the ability to sell the same coverage at different prices to different customers! Again what you read in the forums is the vocal minority, you can't call a bad experience typical based on forum posts!


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

DjD-X5 said:


> Selling expensive warranty has nothing to do with quality of car! If a guy can afford a $60k- $80k car he is not going to blink twice at additional coverage! Funny thing is the extend coverage for the Chevrolets and Nissans I have owned cost the same as the ones sold by BMW. And just like BMW the dealership has the ability to sell the same coverage at different prices to different customers! Again what you read in the forums is the vocal minority, you can't call a bad experience typical based on forum posts!


so if you have money, quality and reliability are not important? I think that the price of BMW insurance for their warranties are outrageous and indicative of poor reliability. I have also had extended warranties and they were not silly priced like bmw. I also see not just on this forum but other sources about high repair bills etc. Bmw owners are a passionate bunch and they are very familiar with the good cars and the clunkers. I think the worst thing about BMW is the over engineered, costly design of something that simply doesnt have to be that way to reach the same result...i.e 500 dollar batteries that have to be" registered" etc...Now having said all this, I like my BMW, but would never consider buying it anywhere near msrp for the features that are offered.


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

anselansel said:


> sI think the worst thing about BMW is the over engineered, costly design of something that simply doesnt have to be that way to reach the same result...i.e 500 dollar batteries that have to be" registered" etc...


You are a battery naif if you believe that. Batteries for BMW's don't cost so much, but they are AGM-VRLA and your '57 Chevy charging system would kill one in short order.


----------



## DjD-X5 (Nov 4, 2015)

anselansel said:


> so if you have money, quality and reliability are not important? I think that the price of BMW insurance for their warranties are outrageous and indicative of poor reliability. I have also had extended warranties and they were not silly priced like bmw. I also see not just on this forum but other sources about high repair bills etc. Bmw owners are a passionate bunch and they are very familiar with the good cars and the clunkers. I think the worst thing about BMW is the over engineered, costly design of something that simply doesnt have to be that way to reach the same result...i.e 500 dollar batteries that have to be" registered" etc...Now having said all this, I like my BMW, but would never consider buying it anywhere near msrp for the features that are offered.


You obviously have a chip on your shoulder with respect to BMW... Selling extended warranties is about making money it's not indicative of poor quality! You can buy the best products in the world and the store selling it to you will push an extended warranty on you! It's those that have money to burn with no sense of value of the dollar that have made us all target of the extended warranty sales pitch and it has no bearing on quality...

I don't believe you really like your BMW unless you are just a chronic complainer! Over engineered? No not really, good engineering allows all the bells and whistles with ease of access and user friendly interfacing. Ever try to figure out what is what on the dash of an MDX or Maxima? So many buttons and at night they are all lit up like the dash of a 747... I guess some like that though. $500 dollar batteries are an over exaggeration, $250 is more like it and what's wrong with a charging system that can adjust the charge based on the age of the battery? Are you opposed to automatic recirculation or being able to set a temp on the AC? Ya all these features required being engineered and if they fail will cost you more to fix than a car that just has a basic hot and cold dial or recirculation on off button! If you can't deal with that you should be more selective in what car you buy.


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

DjD-X5 said:


> You obviously have a chip on your shoulder with respect to BMW... Selling extended warranties is about making money it's not indicative of poor quality! You can buy the best products in the world and the store selling it to you will push an extended warranty on you! It's those that have money to burn with no sense of value of the dollar that have made us all target of the extended warranty sales pitch and it has no bearing on quality...
> 
> I don't believe you really like your BMW unless you are just a chronic complainer! Over engineered? No not really, good engineering allows all the bells and whistles with ease of access and user friendly interfacing. Ever try to figure out what is what on the dash of an MDX or Maxima? So many buttons and at night they are all lit up like the dash of a 747... I guess some like that though. $500 dollar batteries are an over exaggeration, $250 is more like it and what's wrong with a charging system that can adjust the charge based on the age of the battery? Are you opposed to automatic recirculation or being able to set a temp on the AC? Ya all these features required being engineered and if they fail will cost you more to fix than a car that just has a basic hot and cold dial or recirculation on off button! If you can't deal with that you should be more selective in what car you buy.


lol, discussing the pluses and minuses of a car makes me a typical consumer, i guess if you are a fanboy, it sounds like complaining. I like my BMW for what i paid for it. I think that 45-50k for a car that has fake leather and no nav is silly. Sales in the us are way down and BMW needs to step it up. The car is way overengineered, as well as MB.


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

I wonder what "over engineered" means.


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

Doug Huffman said:


> I wonder what "over engineered" means.


making things overly complicated that don't need to be, much like a fridge that has an internet connection to alert you on your cell phone app if has a problem, lol. I tried to buy an amp for my car was told by the car stereo people that they don't work on BMW'S because they have to be coded etc and it was too complicated, so my alternative was a 1000 dollar BMW compatible amp, etc etc


----------



## dpritchett (Sep 6, 2006)

anselansel said:


> I know there are many happy customers but my questions remains, and why the great reluctance to OWN a bmw, even from bmw fans? 50k miles is peanuts for a well built car. the dealership acted like i was a fool not to buy a warranty for my bmw. I eventually did buy a IMO a horribly overpriced warranty because i plan on keeping mine till 100k miles and researched the ridiculous costs of repairing a bmw.


When we bought my wife's 2003 Honda CRV back in the day, the F&I Manager pushed me so hard on their extended warranty that they almost lost the sale.

My point is that it's additional profit for the dealership, so of course they want to sell you an extended warranty and credit life and anything else you'll sign up for.


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

So you AnselAnsel are saying that you could make a connected refrigerator cheaper, or that a connected refrigerator shouldn't be made at all? Did you notice my profession? You don't know complicated.


----------



## dhstadt (Apr 14, 2008)

anselansel said:


> lol, discussing the pluses and minuses of a car makes me a typical consumer, i guess if you are a fanboy, it sounds like complaining. I like my BMW for what i paid for it. I think that 45-50k for a car that has fake leather and no nav is silly. Sales in the us are way down and BMW needs to step it up. The car is way overengineered, as well as MB.


Sounds like a used Yugo might be in your future.


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

dhstadt said:


> Sounds like a used Yugo might be in your future.


LOL, so my choice is an over engineered BMW or a used Yugo? Got it!:rofl:


----------



## veery (Feb 25, 2015)

anselansel said:


> If we are really honest aren't BMWs overpriced, under featured and unreliable and the company is really customer indifferent? I mean read these threads. I know all car forums have complaints but really a car company that wants 5-10 grand in some instances just to issue an insurance policy on their own reliability of their own product? A car that is over engineered and overly complicated for no real reason and that the consumer pays heavily for it in repairs and maintenance. Now if you are going to say buy something else, don't bother. Thats not the point...


So what IS the point? That you just want to stir the pot and see what comes boiling out? You posted so you could find someone to agree with you because you can''t exist without the validation of others? Or because you want someone to disagree just to make an interesting argumentative thread?

I really don't get it. You like your car but wouldn't pay MSRP? Those amongst us who do that are in the minority, but if they can afford it, it's their money and I think they are entitled to spend it however they see fit. More $ for the dealers and BMW and the finance companies - is there something wrong with that?

I think you are basically just a troll looking for reactions and oops, I guess I just fed you (sorry all).


----------



## anselansel (May 5, 2016)

veery said:


> So what IS the point? That you just want to stir the pot and see what comes boiling out? You posted so you could find someone to agree with you because you can''t exist without the validation of others? Or because you want someone to disagree just to make an interesting argumentative thread?
> 
> I really don't get it. You like your car but wouldn't pay MSRP? Those amongst us who do that are in the minority, but if they can afford it, it's their money and I think they are entitled to spend it however they see fit. More $ for the dealers and BMW and the finance companies - is there something wrong with that?
> 
> I think you are basically just a troll looking for reactions and oops, I guess I just fed you (sorry all).


No, not at all. My point is that i think BMWs are overpriced and over engineered and expensive to maintain by what i have read here from others on a bmw forum. I think the price point is too high for what you get. For example take a 3 series. Far from what it used to be, a fun drivers car, its essentially a camry but far more expensive. would you buy a camry for 47 k with sensa tech leather and no nav? I wouldnt. But a troll? nope just a car enthusiast


----------



## jjrandorin (May 8, 2013)

anselansel said:


> No, not at all. My point is that i think BMWs are overpriced and over engineered and expensive to maintain by what i have read here from others on a bmw forum. I think the price point is too high for what you get. For example take a 3 series. Far from what it used to be, a fun drivers car, its essentially a camry but far more expensive. would you buy a camry for 47 k with sensa tech leather and no nav? I wouldnt. But a troll? nope just a car enthusiast


So, why do you own one? You of course are totally entitled to your opinion, and no ones opinion is more valid than an another persons... but you are not doing a very good job of stating your opinion.

You think the cars are overpriced, and over engineered (which is a stupid term in and of itself in my opinion), yet you have one. If you TRUELY believe this, you would not be driving the brand, you would move on to a brand which you did not feel was "overpriced and overengineered".

Since thats not the case, all you are doing now is just "making noise for the sake of making noise". Its not "discussion" if all you do is complain.

Since you seem to know so much about the car being over engineered, I am sure you could design a car with similar performance with much better reliability, and sell it much cheaper.. right?


----------



## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

anselansel said:


> But a troll? nope just a car enthusiast


Bwahahaha!

My '73 911E had dry sump and all mechanical fuel injection. That was an enthusiast's car. Well, maybe my 100-4 AH, or my FIAT Abarth Bialbero with in-town and out-of-town spark plugs.


----------

