# Just blame it on the BMW



## boltjames (Jul 20, 2007)

captainaudio said:


> This, of course, is only true 80% of the time for 68% of drivers of 79% of the cars on 85% of the roads.


Agreed. I had 84% of the roads but that's a nit-pick. Still supports the claim that Corolla drivers are less likely to drive aggressively to begin with and, even if they choose to, they have far less machinery with which to get in trouble. And that one of BMW's problems is that it has a culture that feeds off of itself, and that culture is to "drive fast because the car was built to do that".

BJ


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## johnc_22 (Sep 14, 2004)

boltjames said:


> Just look at how many youngsters own 335i's on here.


OK, how many? Do you have statistics? Unless you consider me at 41 a "youngster" . . . :dunno:


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## johnc_22 (Sep 14, 2004)

boltjames said:


> Still supports the claim that Corolla drivers are less likely to drive aggressively to begin with


Try driving on I-20 through West Atlanta where the posted speed limit is 50mph. It is frightening the number of not only Corollas, Geo Metros and other tin cans on wheels that fly through there but also Escalades and other bloated gas guzzlers, weaving in and out of traffic at 90-95mph - some people have no sense of self preservation or personal responsibility.


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## Bob Shiftright (Feb 3, 2006)

I just did a search over on the TL board and came up with 492 hits for "crash" and 500 for "accident".


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## cshsia (Sep 1, 2007)

to OP, I obviously believe it's not your fault, minivan drivers are slow behind the wheel and often over-compromise when they panic.

So you ARE the driver? lucky you got out unhurt. Just curious, did Caltrans find you? seems like everyone's naming you as the bad guy. Better clear your name before public outrage comes at you.

(I'm currently in a $9000 lawsuit myself when a Ford Crown Vic hit my old Cooper from the side last year.... The "sporty" Cooper cut him off, yea right....)


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## jmcrtp (May 12, 2007)

Calliope said:


> That's because they aren't worth the $250 deductable or insurance increase for claiming it


I thought the exact same thing when I read this


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## BLT (Jan 30, 2006)

am_ver said:


> Minivan driver cut me off the most... in an accident... very simiple, just blame it on the BMW driver. So if she got cut off, why didn't she just brake?? stupid minivan drivers.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/29/MNQNUODKS.DTL&tsp=1
> 
> ...


Let's see, I am driving down the freeway and get cut off by a BMW. My choices are hit the BMW or ram tanker truck full of gas. What am I missing here?


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## boltjames (Jul 20, 2007)

johnc_22 said:


> OK, how many? Do you have statistics? Unless you consider me at 41 a "youngster" . . . :dunno:


Sorry, what I should have said are "youngsters and old people pretending that they're 18".

The 335i has no purpose except to provide enough power to break the law to an even higher degree than the 328i is already equipped to. Then come the bolt-on's and the chips and it's even more sick. Please don't justify these modifications as some sort of hobby. People do this for one reason- to drive recklessly on public roads.

BJ


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## boltjames (Jul 20, 2007)

cshsia said:


> to OP, I obviously believe it's not your fault, minivan drivers are slow behind the wheel and often over-compromise when they panic.
> 
> So you ARE the driver? lucky you got out unhurt. Just curious, did Caltrans find you? seems like everyone's naming you as the bad guy. Better clear your name before public outrage comes at you.
> 
> (I'm currently in a $9000 lawsuit myself when a Ford Crown Vic hit my old Cooper from the side last year.... The "sporty" Cooper cut him off, yea right....)


He wasn't the driver. He just didn't type properly in the OP.

BJ


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## getz (Sep 21, 2007)

boltjames said:


> Sorry, what I should have said are "youngsters and old people pretending that they're 18".
> 
> The 335i has no purpose except to provide enough power to break the law to an even higher degree than the 328i is already equipped to. Then come the bolt-on's and the chips and it's even more sick. Please don't justify these modifications as some sort of hobby. People do this for one reason- to drive recklessly on public roads.
> 
> BJ


BJ,
If I wasn't such a lazy bastard, I would track down the post where you "blow buy" the "drive cave" piloting a buick on the winding back road. Please take of your hat of +7 Pontification, and return to reality. Jack Asses will drive recklessley whether they are in a Saturn, or a BMW. The moral obligations of piloting a vehicle in a safe manner is not income related, and ties to a lack of concern for the well-being of others. Classifying all 335 drivers as pseudo-18 year olds with raccoon tails flying from their sattelite antennae is about as fair as classifying all 328 drivers as sorority girls riding around in their new "daddy gift".
-Getz


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## Calliope (Feb 3, 2007)

getz said:


> BJ,
> If I wasn't such a lazy bastard, I would track down the post where you "blow buy" the "drive cave" piloting a buick on the winding back road. Please take of your hat of +7 Pontification, and return to reality. Jack Asses will drive recklessley whether they are in a Saturn, or a BMW. The moral obligations of piloting a vehicle in a safe manner is not income related, and ties to a lack of concern for the well-being of others. Classifying all 335 drivers as pseudo-18 year olds with raccoon tails flying from their sattelite antennae is about as fair as classifying all 328 *cabrio* drivers as sorority girls riding around in their new "daddy gift".
> -Getz


Fixed!

and

Burn!


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## Jblk328i (Jan 24, 2008)

Paradigm said:


> :lmao:
> you ever go out to santiago canyon?


The college? :dunno:


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## Jblk328i (Jan 24, 2008)

Oh, and to add to this topic:

I bought a Z06 for the singular purpose of being able to ninja dust anyone on the freeway by simply shifting to 4th gear and looking at their faces as they see my ultimate power. Even against the powerful 435i E94.


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## Snaxster (Jun 30, 2007)

boltjames said:


> Sorry, what I should have said are "youngsters and old people pretending that they're 18".
> 
> The 335i has no purpose except to provide enough power to break the law to an even higher degree than the 328i is already equipped to. Then come the bolt-on's and the chips and it's even more sick. Please don't justify these modifications as some sort of hobby. People do this for one reason- to drive recklessly on public roads.
> 
> BJ


Sorry BJ, but that isn't what I'm seeing out there; not as stated, as a blanket characterization of all such cars, anyway.

I myself drive my (now hopped up) 335 at the speed limit, or on the highway 5 mph above it, an honest 95% of the time or better. Why?

Because

1. I have good personal time management skills (finally -- it only took 40 years),

2. my car feels little different at 65 mph and at 80 mph when cruising,

3. it is the quickness of transitions that is most fun for me, the bursts of power, not the sustained absolute speed; it's getting from X mph to Y mph "right now" that's fun, where Y is meaningfully greater than X and is not above the speed limit,

4. the driver culture you described does exist, if not inclusive of all BMW owners,

5. a complementary culture exists that is hostile to 4,

6. I would like to keep my license for a few years more, at least.

But hey... that's me! 

Best,

Snaxster


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## Bob Shiftright (Feb 3, 2006)

am_ver said:


> Angelina Revuelta, 28, said she had been driving the minivan that hit the tanker. Revuelta was driving home to Hayward, was cut off by a gray BMW, lost control and hit the truck, she said. The BMW did not pull over
> 
> The tanker driver declined to comment. Revuelta's van is still at the scene, its hood sheared from the impact of the crash.





















_Pondering the mess covering the road ahead of me, I quickly considered four possible explanations:

A. The deer jumped out in front of me.

B. The BMW jumped out in front of me.

C. The SUV jumped out in front of me.

D. I was on my cell phone and wasn't paying any attention to what I was doing._

In most states you are required to be in control of your cars at all times. Not so in California?


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

boltjames said:


> Yes, I'm stupid. But I do know that what I wrote is true. Just look at this website. Just look at all the ads for tweaking your engine. Just look at all the mods going on. Just look at how many youngsters own 335i's on here.
> 
> There's an unwritten rule on BMW boards that goes something like this:
> 
> ...


Actually Dolt, it isn't true. If it were true then insurance rates on the 3 series would be outrageous, but they're not. I checked insurance rates on all the entry level luxury cars and only the MB C-class was lower and not by much. All the Japanese G, IS, Tl were much more, and sometimes even double the rates on the 3 series. There's a reason for that and there's a reason they're called ricers. Also, I don't think any stats from Australia have any relevance here.

You seem to believe that 3 series owners mod their cars at a higher rate than the Tl, etc. I seriously doubt that to be true either. First of all, do you really think that the demographics of the community here even remotely resemble the demographics of all 3 series owners? Just from my own observations, far from scientific, I see very few modded 3 series, yet I see quite a few more modded G35's & IS's. Then, don't even get me started on civics and the like. I would even venture to say that the majority of the civics I see are modded. There's a reason they call them ricers.

You seem to be about the most prejuidice poster I've ever seen, constantly talking out your &*^, with no stats to back it up.

Yes, ocassionally I like to get on it, but 90% of my driving is spent driving in the right lane slower than the flow of traffic, I slow on yellows and never go through a red, etc, etc. and I have a 335i. I like to get better mpg, safe life on my tires, put less wear on my car, etc. Yet, according to you I should be flying down the hwy running other people off the road and putting others and myself in danger. Nothing could be further from the truth.


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## Bob Shiftright (Feb 3, 2006)

335i Driver said:


> If it were true then insurance rates on the 3 series would be outrageous, but they're not.


I found the 328i insurance rates surprisingly reasonable.


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## mecodoug (Nov 30, 2007)

When I went from a '99 Passat to the '06 330i my insurance only went up by $75. The book value of the VW was $5500 and the BMW was $32,500. I had been expecting a $400 increase......


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## ruxp (Dec 12, 2007)

boltjames said:


> Agreed. I had 84% of the roads but that's a nit-pick. Still supports the claim that Corolla drivers are less likely to drive aggressively to begin with and, even if they choose to, they have far less machinery with which to get in trouble. And that one of BMW's problems is that it has a culture that feeds off of itself, and that culture is to "drive fast because the car was built to do that".
> 
> BJ


Kinda funny how you go on about how you have a sports car, but talk (and probably drive) like a grandma.


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## johnc_22 (Sep 14, 2004)

boltjames said:


> Sorry, what I should have said are "youngsters and old people pretending that they're 18".


So I call you on another of your numerous generalizations of BMW drivers and you resort to a veiled insult to likely the majority of 335i owners here. Same old :bs: from you. Not surprised. You have a) no idea the average age of drivers here, b) their intentions to mod their cars or leave them stock or c) if modified, or "enthusiasts", whether that enthusiasm is expressed on a track rather than open roads.


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## mrvuml (Nov 14, 2007)

boltjames said:


> Don't miss the point here:
> 
> The BMW with the 300 twin-turbo horses is the only one that makes you think you can get away with a hairpin turn at 80 mph.
> 
> ...


The 335i is not alone in what you claim. Lets not forget the Audi S4, etc. also. As for well-powered everyday cars, there is the AWD Subrau Legacy (250HP) and the Audi A3 and A4 with 2.0T engines (200HP) and sport suspension. These are no slouches and handle well. Note: I'm talking about regular roads here, not on the track. I don't know how you drive your 328 but I've had dealers (on test drives) comment (in a compimentary way) that I drive a 328 quicker, and handle it better, than many people drive a 335. (Sorry, didn't mean to sound like bragging). So even the 328 accelerates well and can be driven very quickly and handles very well on the street, around bends, etc. In effect, it is just as "dangerous" as the 335, it just takes a second or two longer to get to any given speed.


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## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

ruxp said:


> So, should the 328 (or 428, since that's a sports car) also be banned?


Good question. What use is a car that is geared for autobahn speeds in the land of 60mph speed limits?

(5% tops) of those owners are driving enthusists, the rest :dunno:... Status.


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## Calliope (Feb 3, 2007)

johnc_22 said:


> I enjoy driving too much to flaunt the 300HP in my 335i on public roads and risk my or others' lives, or just more expensive insurance. I don't (yet) track my car so that means I keep myself in check. It doesn't mean I don't sometimes enjoy the 300lb-ft of torque when going from 0 to the speed limit or thereabouts. 5 days of the week my car is a commuter car so it gets used just like any other car, driving with the flow of traffic *(which in Atlanta is usually 20mph over the posted 55)*.


ROFLMAO So true!!

Of course this is only when your not stuck in bumper to bumper traffic during rush hour  ... why do they call it rush hour? You aren't getting anywhere fast during that time


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## Calliope (Feb 3, 2007)

boltjames said:


> *Remember that the average age of a 3 Series owner is 47*, and they're soccer mom's and executive dad's. That's 80% of all 3 owners right there. But I'm not talking about myself and those other 'normal' drivers. I'm talking about BF and the 335i modder type that represents 90% of the population of this subforum.
> 
> BJ


Maybe where you live the 3er has status and this is the best a 47 yr old can afford... sad really they should be driving 5's or 7's.

I almost wish my car had more status like yours, when you drop that much coin on a car you hope to be noticed but here it's just like another Civic or Corolla they are everywhere. Maybe I should move to your area, imagine a younger person driving a 3er.. oh the horror!

As for my informal observations (probably more accurate than your "statistics") 3er drivers here are more around late 20's to mid 30's (maybe some in their late 30's), after that they bump up the the 5er with the ages closer to 40's - 50's, the age goes progressively up with the 7's.


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## mrvuml (Nov 14, 2007)

ruxp said:


> So, should the 328 (or 428, since that's a sports car) also be banned?


Absolutely, especially when driven by people going at the speed limit when everyone else is driving 20mph over.  
As mentioned before, the 328 is a death trap because it accelerates well, can be driven very quickly and handles very well. So yes, ban them all as well. 
Btw, whats with this 428 crap? There's no such car!


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## Jblk328i (Jan 24, 2008)

Calliope said:


> Maybe where you live the 3er has status and this is the best a 47 yr old can afford... sad really they should be driving 5's or 7's.
> 
> I almost wish my car had more status like yours, when you drop that much coin on a car you hope to be noticed but here it's just like another Civic or Corolla they are everywhere. Maybe I should move to your area, imagine a younger person driving a 3er.. oh the horror!
> 
> As for my informal observations (probably more accurate than your "statistics") 3er drivers here are more around late 20's to mid 30's (maybe some in their late 30's), after that they bump up the the 5er with the ages closer to 40's - 50's, the age goes progressively up with the 7's.


Do 70-80 year olds drive a 7 Series? My brother is only 39. :dunno:


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## Meiac09 (Jan 2, 2006)

boltjames said:


> , I drive 80 in a 70, keep to the fast lane, ride asses a bit to get 'em moving. But I don't weave.


Most people would slap you for doing that. Once you leave hell (southern new england and York County) people drive around 85, and keep a *safe* distance and move to the right when they aren't passing.

You must be from Massachusetts.

I disagree with the generalization that BMW drivers are crazy MF's on the road. It is the COMPLETE opposite. BMW drivers are generally sane* and it is the people in the POS *Hyundais* who tailgate you on 95 or the surface streets, going 100 MPH and weaving from lane to lane. THOSE should be banned.

but then again, my type are backwards. we think you should actually give a rats ass about the people we share the world with.

* (Connecticut, New York, New Jersey and Massachusetts residents excluded, they ALWAYS drive like crazy MF's) :bareass::yikes:


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## Jinxter (Feb 22, 2006)

boltjames said:


> Don't miss the point here:
> 
> The BMW with the 300 twin-turbo horses is the only one that makes you think you can get away with a hairpin turn at 80 mph.
> 
> ...


Sloppy suspension? you havent driven in a SRT8 grand Cherokee have you? considering its 6.1 liter v8 420 Hp and 440 TQ with a 0-60 in 4.8seconds. It's equiped with a bilstin susprension and full brembo brake kit that will stop the car from 60 to 0 in 114 ft. this car out handled the porche cayenne S in all category's. It's in fact jsut as fast as a stock e46 M3.

It really just depends on how mature the driver is and or how much experiance they have behind the wheel. In any sence no one should ever street race because its not only your self that you are putting at risk.


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## Calliope (Feb 3, 2007)

Jblk328i said:


> Do 70-80 year olds drive a 7 Series? My brother is only 39. :dunno:


Hehe not that old LOL but someone who is 39 and drives a 7 is rare (again from my observations but maybe in San Jose the age of 7er drivers drops significantly)... your brother is just a baller


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## mrvuml (Nov 14, 2007)

Damn those demographics and stereotypes! Now I need to cancel my 335i Sedan w/6MT & ZSP order and get a 5-series instead as I'm apparently becoming geriatric. Bummer!


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## bimmerguy288 (Feb 28, 2006)

Calliope said:


> Hehe not that old LOL but someone who is 39 and drives a 7 is rare (again from my observations but maybe in San Jose the age of 7er drivers drops significantly)... your brother is just a baller


I am 44 and drive a 750i. I would think that the majority of the 7er drivers are a little older than me. I bought the car because it's comfortable, powerful and handles great for its size, and last but not the least, I would be lying if I said 'status" had absolutely nothing to do with my decision to purchase of the 7. I wear a Timex Ironman watch though.


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## Calliope (Feb 3, 2007)

LOL I think most members on this board are the exceptions to the rules LOL as most old foagies (sp) are not cruising internet boards, even today I was driving by a 7 and looked over to confirm, yup early - mid 50's would be my guess. The 5er driver was probably mid 40's.

Well 7's are the statusmobiles of the BMW world , I heard they are nice rides but I will never be able to afford one LOL, lucky you  of course then again I am too young to be driving one anyway :stickpoke   picking on you of course


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## am_ver (Jul 12, 2005)

I have a BLUE (not gray) vert. Maybe in NY minivan drivers are slow... out here (from my experience), they are agresive and I've have had more minivans cut me off than any other vehicle.



cshsia said:


> to OP, I obviously believe it's not your fault, minivan drivers are slow behind the wheel and often over-compromise when they panic.
> 
> So you ARE the driver? lucky you got out unhurt. Just curious, did Caltrans find you? seems like everyone's naming you as the bad guy. Better clear your name before public outrage comes at you.
> 
> (I'm currently in a $9000 lawsuit myself when a Ford Crown Vic hit my old Cooper from the side last year.... The "sporty" Cooper cut him off, yea right....)


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## diana (Sep 6, 2007)

I drive about 25,000 miles a year, and the way I have it figured, if I die in a car accident here in my part of NC, I will probably die at the hands of either 1) a stressed out mom in a minivan or SUV flying to make soccer practice or piano lessons, 2) a 16-22 year old boy in his Honda or Acura, or 3) a ******* bully in a pickup truck (and no, not all pickup drivers are ********!!!)


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## Takashi (Feb 1, 2008)

boltjames said:


> I owned an Acura TL for over 3 years and was an active member of their discussion forum. I recall only 1 instance of someone getting into an accident or reporting on an accident.... one should realize that BMW's are fast cars and that there's a culture that encourages people to drive them recklessly.


That's not true. It depends on the driver, not the car.

Just today I have encountered drivers of Subaru WRX, Pontic Grand Am, Infinity G35 coupe who drives like they own the road. I have had experiences with annoying drivers driving TL, Civic, Ram pickup, SUV (any kind) and mini-vans (soccer moms) I think stupid drivers come in many brands so don't just point fingers at BMWs


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## captainaudio (Jul 17, 2007)

philippek said:


> What an innovative safety system. So simple it's brilliant. I'm going home now to to disconnect the sway bars on all my cars. And I'll cut all the springs. That should pretty much keep me from getting in any accidents, ever, right?


You need to order the little know BMW EHS (Extreme Highway Safety) option. This option includes a highly detuned suspension, degraded brakes, a 94% reduction in power and the 6 speed Steptronic is replaced with a GM 2 speed powerglide.

This option makes the car so non-repnosive and skittish that nobody would be willing to drive it over 40 MPH. If you do exceed 40MPH the IPOd adapter immediatley switches on and starts playing Barry Manilow songs, thereby reminding you that yiou are an extremely uncool middle aged man and there is no point in speeding because you are driving a very low performance car and have 0 driving skills.

The even more expensive EEHS (Extremely Enhanced Highway Safety) option, which is only available in the 328i Cabrio includes a set of training wheels to give that extra margin of safety and help build driver confidence on those scary 20 MPH hairpin turns.

With these important new features (which of course appeal to the 98% of three series owner who are under the impression that they are driving a luxury car) you are freed from the tedious and boring task of actually driving your BMW and can concentrate on more mature activities like ridiculing the less fortunate and pretending you're rich.

With this innovative feature you still get the all important BMW feature of impressing Mr. and Mrs. Camry (usually as they pass you).

I am having my car retrofitted next week, but only if I can have the Barry Manilow warning replaced by Donny and Marie's timeless rendition of "I'm a lttle bit country". If THAT doesn't remind me to slow down, nothing will.


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## mrvuml (Nov 14, 2007)

captainaudio said:


> The even more expensive EEHS (Extremely Enhanced Highway Safety) option, which is only available in the 328i Cabrio includes a set of training wheels to give that extra margin of safety and help build driver confidence on those scary 20 MPH hairpin turns.


Does it come with a free "4" sticker to place over the "3"?


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## Roadzter (Jan 27, 2008)

I don't think I've read such a string of strange prejudices and leaps of logic in one place in a long time than those posted by BJ. If you own and drive a performance car you do so to drive irresponsibly. If you drive quickly you drive irresponsibly. If you change lanes while driving you drive irresponsibly. The road but must be made safe for people who don't choose to pay attention or are distracted while driving. BMWs were made for their status badge not for performance. Yikes. 

Owning a BMW or a performance car (unfortunately) doesn't ensure that you are good driver but it doesn't make you inherently a bad driver. Hopefully, caring about your car and your driving and paying attention to the other cars on the road will make you a better driver. Driving without paying attention or driving with your ego won't make you a good driver. I hope you are able to exercise better judgement in your daily life than here.


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## f1fan (Jun 22, 2007)

Anyone get cut off or see a Prius drive like crazy? I see it all the time. Not much economy there. That too is a status vehicle.


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## Greeno-Deano (Jan 27, 2008)

[sarcasm]

Well.. I drive a 318is... So in my opinion you ALL have to much power to handle it safely, all cars with over 150hp should be banned..:thumbup:

[endsarcasm]


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