# Dilemma - convince me or not?



## 335i (Feb 23, 2007)

I've recently decided to move over to a 4-door (have a kid, etc), and while I like our X5d, it makes me smile when I get into a car with a manual transmission. I've really thought about swapping the 335i for an E90 335d, but no manual transmission for the 335d has me going back to the E90 335i. I regularly get 26+ MPG in the X5d, but drive mostly highway. Any real world numbers for folks who drive primarily highway in the 335d? (I've searched, BTW, but wouldn't mind some consistent numbers with daily driving, and long trips, which is what I normally drive). I average almost 25 MPG in my 335i, with highway trips at 27+.

The price between the 335i and 335d is almost negligible now with the extra option credit and lower price tag. I like the X5d for an SUV - awesome torque - but sometimes miss the high end that the 335i has. Convince me to go with the diesel again?

I would really miss the 6MT - which is mainly why I'm on the fence. :dunno: There's just something about that 3rd pedal I guess 

Either way, no M-sport pack for me - I don't like the rear fascia, or the wheels 

I'll also be ordering some individual options - Either Piano black, or Maple Anthracite, and the individual sound. Will inquire on leather (rust brown, or platinum), but not sure I'm willing to commit to the price, as I've heard wildly different pricing, and my CA won't be able to give me a quote until tomorrow or Monday. I don't mind saddle at all, but don't care for the standard woodgrain/aluminum options.

I know the 335d will get better mpg's, but I'm not sure I'm convinced enough that it will make a difference for me this go around.. has anyone gone from a 335i to 335d and NOT missed the performance?

Thanks in advance!


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

I get average about 30-33 mpg on my daily commute. It consists of 15 miles interstate + 3 or so miles of stop & go traffic. I'm glad you post the question because I have heard quite a few folks move from 335i to 335d, but I haven't known anyone that ditch 335d & move back to 335i. I'm hoping to hear stories from both sides.


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## 335i (Feb 23, 2007)

bayoucity said:


> I get average about 30-33 mpg on my daily commute. It consists of 15 miles interstate + 3 or so miles of stop & go traffic. I'm glad you post the question because I have heard quite a few folks move from 335i to 335d, but I haven't known anyone that ditch 335d & move back to 335i. I'm hoping to hear stories from both sides.


Good to know - I know the car is "rated" for 36 MPG for the highway, but our X5d ALWAYS does better than the sticker.. I'm sure that it is also the case for the 335d, but want to make sure.

For those with an X5d AND a 335d, did BMW mute the diesel tone any more for the car than the SUV? I like the exhaust tone of the X5d, but wasn't sure if it was the same for the 335d. I need to just do drive a few and see I suppose.. but there's only 1 dealer close to me, and they're a pain :thumbdwn:


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## grapes87 (Feb 22, 2011)

Depends on how fast you go. If you stick to 65 MPH, no AC (outside temps < 70) and use cruise, the car will get between 37-40 MPG.

I've had some trips where I had to set the cruise to somewhere between 55-60 MPH and have an indicated MPG of 42.5 MPG, but that's 100% highway with no speeding at all.

With the AC on and speeds between 70-80, I'm getting between 34-36 MPG on the highway.


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## Tuce (Nov 24, 2009)

It sounds like the gasser may be a better fit for you. As for highway mileage, I have found it fairly consistent in the d -- depends mostly on speed. Keep it around 60mph and I get 40mpg; 70mph nets about 38mpg; anything above 75mph and it goes down to ~36mpg.


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## PSEE (Jan 3, 2011)

My d is the first car with an auto tranny I've owned. My previous car was an E36 M3. I thought I'd miss the
clutch, shifting, etc.

No.

The thing that impresses me is how the auto downshifts when the car decelerates.

As for MPG, my commute is 1/3 back roads, 2/3 highway and I get 34 MPG. I drove to VT and back on
Saturday - 4/5 two lane, 1/5 interstate. Lots of up & down hills - it's mountainous - and passing other cars.
I got 36.1 for that trip.


:thumbup:


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Forgetting for a minute the price differential between diesel and premium, which in my area is significant, depending how heavy footed of a driver you are, expect to see at least a 10mpg difference with the d if you are a normal driver - unlike me. I am heavy footed becuase the car is to damn fun to drive and I average 24/26 mpg just CITY. Throw in an occassional highway trip and my combined jumps up around 29 mpg. 

As for strictly highway mileage, I never really tried to see how good my mpg's are under normal driving conditions, because there again I am heavy footed on the highway too, usually exceeding the speed limit and making numerous full throttle passes just so I can feel all of that torque! Best I have seen is 36.7 mpg, but I know the d could do A LOT better if I could just keep my damn foot off of the accelerator! 

As for your MT concerns, I use to have a MT M-BMW Coupe and my previous sedan was a MT, and let's just say after 6 months of ownership I have forgotten all about my previous MT, because the d IMO makes up for it in so many ways.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

The D was my first automatic car. At first I enjoyed the laziness of not needing to shift, especially when passing on the highway. And if there ever was a perfect engine to pair with an autotragic, this is the one, due to the lower-revving torque available.

However, after a year I've realized that I miss the engagement and involvement that a manual transmission requires. As a result I have a deposit on a new 1M (6MT), and will probably be moving on from the D pretty soon. But other then the transmission preference, I can't fault much else about the car, at least nothing that's "D"-specific. 

Graham


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## grapes87 (Feb 22, 2011)

As many others here, I had a manual transmission in my previous car. Even with all the traffic and hills, I do miss going through the gears myself.

Even with the sport package, and in DS, and using the paddle shifters, the transmission will still override my intentions, even if the gear i wish to use is appropriate. This became more evident after the software upgrade the dealer did last December.


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## nok (Mar 14, 2010)

I took a trip from upstate NY to Raliegh NC and back. Hit some heavy traffic on I-95 south of Washington, yet still got 41.5 mpg on the way down. My onboard mpg calculator always reads a couple mpg's low. On the first part of the return trip I was getting 44 mpg indicated on clear highway at about 70mph. Overall, I've put 21000 miles on my "D" and never got below 31 mpg in all kinds of driving.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

In my experience if its 3rd pedal that feels you better then you will not be happy with d. But if its right gear you care about then AT in d does a good job. I used to do sane driving during initial days of my ownership and AT would change gears arnd 1600RPM and now I drive hard and AT has got used to changing gears at higher RPMs. I like the learning curve of these transmissions. Why dont you take d loaner and use it for a week. That should clear your doubts.


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## craig1214 (Feb 16, 2007)

With pure highway driving, I get between 36 and 42 mpg, depending on terrain, wind, and speed.

I always drove MT and preferred them. Went with auto in my 335xi, and loved it--did not miss MT at all. The auto in my 335d isn't as good/quick as the 335xi, but the torque makes up for it. For me, MT is more critical (and fun) in a car with less power. We have a Mazda6 4-cyl MT for a runaround car so I still get my fix rowing through the gears.


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## 335i (Feb 23, 2007)

grapes87 said:


> Depends on how fast you go. If you stick to 65 MPH, no AC (outside temps < 70) and use cruise, the car will get between 37-40 MPG.
> 
> I've had some trips where I had to set the cruise to somewhere between 55-60 MPH and have an indicated MPG of 42.5 MPG, but that's 100% highway with no speeding at all.
> 
> With the AC on and speeds between 70-80, I'm getting between 34-36 MPG on the highway.


Thanks! I have a feeling I'll be in that later ranger, probably around 70.. AC on now that summer has hit..



Tuce said:


> *It sounds like the gasser may be a better fit for you.* As for highway mileage, I have found it fairly consistent in the d -- depends mostly on speed. Keep it around 60mph and I get 40mpg; 70mph nets about 38mpg; anything above 75mph and it goes down to ~36mpg.


Thank you! I like the sound of better fuel economy, as we drive a lot, and it looks like the MPG's are pretty consistent... I just keep thinking about losing that 3rd pedal.  Decisions, decisions. If I decide to lease, it looks like the 335d will be a more favorable lease by quite a bit, which might make up for some of my individual "spoiledness". I honestly didn't even begin to consider the E90 until I found out I could do individual options... that brown trim just doesn't do it for me. 



PSEE said:


> My d is the first car with an auto tranny I've owned. My previous car was an E36 M3. I thought I'd miss the
> clutch, shifting, etc.
> 
> No.
> ...


I'm glad you mentioned this.. I've noticed the deceleration on our X5d as well..

Question though - does the 335d ever feel like it hesitates slightly, or doesn't quite engage quick enough off of the line all of the time? (I think the hesitation in the X5d is the transmission trying to start in 2nd, then downshifting to first - seems to go away in sport mode.)

As far as the feel of the manual transmission.. I miss it when I drive the X5. I like the convenience every so often, and the torque does make for some fun, even in an SUV. I just don't know if I could go long term without having some sort of manual transmission in the stable.



cssnms said:


> Forgetting for a minute the price differential between diesel and premium, which in my area is significant, depending how heavy footed of a driver you are, expect to see at least a 10mpg difference with the d if you are a normal driver - unlike me. I am heavy footed becuase the car is to damn fun to drive and I average 24/26 mpg just CITY. Throw in an occassional highway trip and my combined jumps up around 29 mpg.
> 
> As for strictly highway mileage, I never really tried to see how good my mpg's are under normal driving conditions, because there again I am heavy footed on the highway too, usually exceeding the speed limit and making numerous full throttle passes just so I can feel all of that torque! *Best I have seen is 36.7 mpg, but I know the d could do A LOT better if I could just keep my damn foot off of the accelerator! *
> 
> As for your MT concerns, I use to have a MT M-BMW Coupe and my previous sedan was a MT, and let's just say after 6 months of ownership I have forgotten all about my previous MT, because the d IMO makes up for it in so many ways.


Thanks! I have a feeling I'll be the same way for a while if I go the diesel route (did the same with the X5d).

This move, while it could potentially save money on fuel, means I give up my coupe.. and my MT at the same time. I can be easily swayed by huge money savings and good MPG's, but I think in the end, I'll miss both dearly. I've scheduled a few test drives back to back, to see how I fare. I am sure I'll be impressed even more with the 335d than the X5d with all of that torque in a much lighter (and even more nimble) car.



GB said:


> The D was my first automatic car. At first I enjoyed the laziness of not needing to shift, especially when passing on the highway. And if there ever was a perfect engine to pair with an autotragic, this is the one, due to the lower-revving torque available.
> 
> However, after a year I've realized that I miss the engagement and involvement that a manual transmission requires. As a result I have a deposit on a new 1M (6MT), and will probably be moving on from the D pretty soon. But other then the transmission preference, I can't fault much else about the car, at least nothing that's "D"-specific.
> 
> Graham


Thank you! I like the involvement as well. I'm not one to talk on the phone and drive, etc., so my only real "involvement" while driving is shifting and listening to my iPod. I'm ok giving up the coupe for now, as 4 doors is much more logical (but not better looking IMO  , but I've really been on the fence with the MT. At first, I didn't consider the E90 at all.. just couldn't stand the front end. After the LCI, it has grown on me (albeit not nearly like the E92 did). I'd really like to jump on an E90 M3, but I just can't justify the extra dough right now, as it would likely be almost 2X as much as the 335d with ED, etc. After looking and "building" a 335d, and thinking about no MT, I went back to the 335i.

Does anyone miss the top-end? I love the down low torque of the X5d - but to me, it seems to cut off, or die, past the lower to middle range, something I'm not used to in the 335i. For around town, I don't really notice as much.. but my "spirited" driving warrants more of a top end. 

Thanks everyone for the responses so far!!


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## grapes87 (Feb 22, 2011)

The car does start in 2nd, but not all the time.

I wish there was a button as other cars have, for instance I believe Mercedes has a W/S button (Winter/Summer) and when pressed, it puts the car in winter mode, which starts in 2nd gear.

On flat terrain, I don't mind at all starting in 2nd. When the car tries to start in 2nd on a hill, it bothers me, and I usually use the paddle to go to first and go through the gears manually until I reach my desired speed.


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## DnA Diesel (Jul 31, 2010)

You have one nice diesel already...you've mentioned the transmission several times. I think that's an indicator that the D may not be right for you...just my impression though. The D is not for everybody, especially when "being engaged" means having a manual transmission.

Regards
D.


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## 335i (Feb 23, 2007)

bimmerdiesel said:


> In my experience if its 3rd pedal that feels you better then you will not be happy with d. But if its right gear you care about then AT in d does a good job. I used to do sane driving during initial days of my ownership and AT would change gears arnd 1600RPM and now I drive hard and AT has got used to changing gears at higher RPMs. I like the learning curve of these transmissions. *Why dont you take d loaner and use it for a week.* That should clear your doubts.


This is really what I need to do.. I'm not one to make spur of the moment decisions, so having it for a few days might help..



craig1214 said:


> With pure highway driving, I get between 36 and 42 mpg, depending on terrain, wind, and speed.
> 
> I always drove MT and preferred them. Went with auto in my 335xi, and loved it--did not miss MT at all. The auto in my 335d isn't as good/quick as the 335xi, but the torque makes up for it. For me, MT is more critical (and fun) in a car with less power. *We have a Mazda6 4-cyl MT for a runaround car so I still get my fix rowing through the gears.*


I'm sure if I had some sort of MT around, like a 1er 6MT, the decision would be less critical.. but I'm being forced "grow up" since we have a kid now :angel:



grapes87 said:


> The car does start in 2nd, but not all the time.
> 
> I wish there was a button as other cars have, for instance I believe Mercedes has a W/S button (Winter/Summer) and when pressed, it puts the car in winter mode, which starts in 2nd gear.
> 
> On flat terrain, I don't mind at all starting in 2nd. W*hen the car tries to start in 2nd on a hill, it bothers me, and I usually use the paddle to go to first and go through the gears manually until I reach my desired speed.*


I'll be honest, I haven't spent a lot of time with a step - if you just flick the paddle, does it automatically go into manual-shift mode? We couldn't get paddles for the X5d, so the only way to engage manual mode is to move the gear selector and start shifting.. and I'll be honest, it's somewhat cumbersome, because I've already been irritated that it was in the wrong gear 



DnA Diesel said:


> You have one nice diesel already...you've mentioned the transmission several times. I think that's an indicator that the D may not be right for you...just my impression though. The D is not for everybody, especially when "being engaged" means having a manual transmission.
> 
> Regards
> D.


Yep, I just keep getting hung up on the transmission..  I really like the idea of 40+ MPG.. and if I decide to lease, the lease term incentives are significantly better. I'm not sure I'm ready to give up the performance of the 335i.. but honestly, I figured I'd be going the other direction toward the E90 M3. The wife tells me to go for the M3, but as much as I'd LOVE to go that route, I think both our licenses would be in jeopardy within the first month :rofl: not to mention the V8 gas mileage would likely get old quickly. I'll at least give the 335d a test drive.. I was blown away with the X5d - and the idea of driving like a banshee and still getting 30+ MPG...


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## neurom (Jan 16, 2005)

I had an E63 AMG with AT, which has a much more exciting engine than the 335d, and being a MT lover, was counting the days until I finished the lease. Got into a 550i MT and absolutely loved it because of the tranny despite the fact the engine was not as good as the E63. I do not think you will be happy with a car without a manual from what I read. If you get the d with AT, I think you will be back here posting your regrets and the fact the smile is not as big as it had a manual. We have an X5d at home too and I am in a temp lease on a 328 with AT to bridge me while I wait and I am restless to get my ED M3 with manual. The 335d is a great car, but is not everyone's favorite, has the same engine you already have on the X5d, and you state you get your smile from a manual.


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## BMW Power (Jul 25, 2007)

I have no regrets going from a 335i coupe with MT to 335d. I am really enjoying the car. Not saying I will never get a MT again, but the combination of mileage and power are unbeatable.


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## edwin191 (Apr 27, 2011)

I had an 07 335i MT for 4 years till I picked up my 11 335d. The 335i had a slightly more sporty feel, but I'm unsure if it was the lighter weight, the more interactive driving with the MT, or ??? 
For my normal driving, the added torque really makes the d a real pleasure to drive. I can't wait for my first track day in the d to see how my lap times compare to the 335i.

Aside from my darn A/C belt howling at times, the 335d is in the running to be my favorite daily driver yet. I don't really miss the MT but I'd order one in a heartbeat for my next ride if it's available. Oh, FWIW - I'm seeing about 7 - 7.5 mpg better in the 335d than I did in the 335i for the identical driving...31.3mpg avg for the 5,500 miles so far. I did a couple long road trips and was bouncing between 36.7 and 37.1 mpg with an avg speed for the trip of 73.4mph.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

OP: Like you I really enjoy driving a MT especially on the weekend and not in stop and go traffic. This is why I have a Z4 with a MT. My d is my daily driver and it is a pleasure to drive as a comuter car, comfortable and easy to drive in traffic. IMHO, it is not an exciting car to drive. If you like a MT and you do not have another car to drive with one, you may find yourself regretting the purchase of a 335d. Don't get me wrong, it is an awesome car and I do not regret my decision to buy one as I traded an R32 with the DSG tranny as it was also my daily driver. I am very pleased with my decision. Good luck with yours.


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