# Ordering a 325iT



## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Thanks to everybody who has replied here.
I am going to the dealer tomorrow, and I think I will take a printout of some of your posts.
Anybody who wants to have their name, location, etc. removed PLEASE say so here. I will check this thread before I go to the dealer.
I'm wondering if I can still do a European delivery, since it appears that the UK can still order Tourings.
Sport Package or no SP is not a deal-killer either way. Auto trans IS a deal-killer.
Sarafil, thank you so much for clarifying the order code!
I have not given up! I will consider a 325xiT if everything else is OK.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

ED will make no difference. ED cars are US spec, so if US spec cars aren't being made anymore, you will still be SOL.


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## blockpavick (Dec 22, 2004)

*only 21 left*

Hello, I am new to this board, and just went through a similar situation. Wanted a 325xiT with manual transmission only, cold, premium,xenon full spare. Wanted some hue of green or blue exterior with natural brown leather interior. Was ready to order one but closest dealer here in Illinois said there was no more modifiable slots before production ended. She did a search and could only offer me a stripped silver vehicle. Doing an internet search I noticed another dealer in my area had a loaded silver with an automatic. Thought I would call for the heck of it, and got a great salesman.
He searched the BMW data base and came up with only 21 or so manual 325xiT's either at the VPC or inbound. He also corraborated that time had run out to order one. Most were already at or allocated to dealers on the East coast or California. He was able to offer me a choice of 2, one Orient Blue/sand, the other Oxford Green/natural leather he thought he could trade for. Both at the VPC allocated to other dealers. Through much work (we lost the Blue one which had the exact equipment I wanted), I got the Green one! Still at the VPC. Due to take delivery next week. No xenons, but I took it anyway and saved $700.
So good luck, I doubt you will find the exact car you want, but an aggressive dealer may be able to get you one still out there! This is for manual transmission 325xiT's. Not sure about manual 325iT's. Good luck. 
Joe B.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Latest on this:

I went back to the dealer and established that the vehicle they had located and for which I had left a deposit was, in fact, an auto trans 325iT SULEV. I got my deposit back.

I had called BMW North America earlier today. The lady at Customer Service said I ought to be able to order one until the end of this month (December) and that Oxford Green WAS available according to her ordering guide. I informed the dealer of this.
Fellow at the dealership said something about cars ordered now not being made until February. I said that was NOT a problem. Salespeople went into another office. I prepared to leave.

Salesman came back and asked me if I were willing to put down a $5000 deposit on the vehicle I had specified and to buy it at MSRP. I said "Yes." He said they'd try to get it tomorrow morning. I said to give me a call when they get it set up and I'd be right down with the deposit.
I told the salesman that if the H-K audio and/or the Park Distance Control had to be dropped I wouldn't mind. If the Nav got dropped I WOULD mind, and if the manual trans got dropped the deal was off.

Waiting until tomorrow.

Blockpavick, Sounds like you have very nearly what I want to order. Is it possible to have the bi-xenons installed by the dealer?


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Salesman came back and asked me if I were willing to put down a $5000 deposit on the vehicle I had specified and to buy it at MSRP.


 :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Pay MSRP for a wagon? :yikes:


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## blockpavick (Dec 22, 2004)

Bob, I did inquire with the dealer to check with his parts and service department the possibility and cost of installing OEM xenon. No answer yet. I am sure it will be way too spendy, and the halogens are good headlights and will satisfy me. I would be skeptical of the dealers ability to get one made, unless he has the ability to get a modify a vehicle someone already ordered. I have been told by 3 seperate dealers the deadline to order was a week ago. Maybe paying list and giving a $5,000 deposit will get the dealer to bump a previous order or something. I can tell you I payed considerably under list price. Has your dealer done a complete search of all the 325iT's with manual in the country or on order? They should be able to do that, my aggressive good dealer did, my closest dealer did not. Some dealers may not want to hassle with dealer trades. Call around. Hope it works out for you.
Joe B.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :yikes:
> 
> Pay MSRP for a wagon? :yikes:


Yeah, it sucks, but not as bad as not getting it at all sucks.
I'm willing to pay that price to get the car I want.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Have you considered looking for a used one? At this point, you're probably just as likely to find one closer to your requirements used as new.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Kaz said:


> Have you considered looking for a used one? At this point, you're probably just as likely to find one closer to your requirements used as new.


That is something to consider. I do want the Bluetooth connectivity, and it seems that this limits me to MY2005 since I keep reading about problems with prior years and BT.


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

Bob Clevenger said:


> That is something to consider. I do want the Bluetooth connectivity, and it seems that this limits me to MY2005 since I keep reading about problems with prior years and BT.


BT retrofit is certainly do-able for a post 3/02 build on a touring. Check out this retrofit .

-Just to reinforce the used option.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

uter said:


> BT retrofit is certainly do-able for a post 3/02 build on a touring. Check out this retrofit .
> 
> -Just to reinforce the used option.


Well, there are $$$ kits that'll work on any year nowadays. In addition to the cost ($650ish) there is still the issue of good vs bad BT modules. I just stopped following that entirely. I'm perfectly happy with my own BT setup.


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

Kaz said:


> Well, there are $$$ kits that'll work on any year nowadays. In addition to the cost ($650ish) there is still the issue of good vs bad BT modules. I just stopped following that entirely. I'm perfectly happy with my own BT setup.


Kaz, may I ask which BT set up you have? I also have a 2001 and the damn stereo doesn't support the BMW BT kit...


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

BlackChrome said:


> Kaz, may I ask which BT set up you have? I also have a 2001 and the damn stereo doesn't support the BMW BT kit...


I put in a Ericsson HCB30. I considered getting the EIS kit to make the OE mic and buttons to work and plug the HCB into the rear stock harness, but the whole bit cost me $150, and the currently available alternatives didn't exist at the time anyways.

If I were doing it again, I MIGHT consider getting one of the $650 setups; OTOH I could do a lot with $400.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57662


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

*It's on order!*

Yes! I just returned from my dealer. My 325iT is on order, just as I spec'd it out.
Now for the interminable waiting!

Thanks so very much to everybody who contributed to this thread. You encouraged me to keep trying. Between your posts and my phone call to BMW USA we convinced my dealer to do it. I don't even mind paying MSRP -- well, not *too* much anyway.

I shall be Bimmerless for not too much longer and then join the (dare I say "elite"?) group of Touring owners.

Doing Happy Dance :sabrina:
Falling down 'cause I can't dance!


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## Rob325_in_AZ (Oct 22, 2004)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Yes! I just returned from my dealer. My 325iT is on order, just as I spec'd it out.
> Now for the interminable waiting!
> 
> Thanks so very much to everybody who contributed to this thread. You encouraged me to keep trying. Between your posts and my phone call to BMW USA we convinced my dealer to do it. I don't even mind paying MSRP -- well, not *too* much anyway.
> ...


Congrats!

A year from now you won't remember whether you payed MSRP or not, but you WOULD constantly be reminded if you hadn't gotten the exact car you wanted. :thumbup:


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## blockpavick (Dec 22, 2004)

Bob, glad to hear you got want you wanted. It pays to be persistent! Let us know when you get your new 325iT, and post a photo or two. I will do the same.
Joe B.


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

Congrats, Bob.
Touring owners are, I dare say, an elite group. If for no other reason than the rarity of tourings in the USA.

Remember though, you owe your fellow Bimmerfesters PICS!


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

uter said:


> Remember though, you owe your fellow Bimmerfesters PICS!


I owe you guys big time! If not for this forum I would have taken the salesman's word that the car I wanted (and am getting!) was impossible to order.

My Canon 10D is waiting to take photos!
Heck, I might go up to port Hueneme when it arrives and take pix as it is unloaded from the boat!  
In any event, I will have the camera with me when I pick her up.


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## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

I guess there's something I don't understand. Originally, your dealer tried to find a vehicle like you wanted already in the system, correct? Then you found the one he identified was SULEV and therefore was not a manual, and, it wasn't the color you wanted. A call to BMWUSA confirmed that the dealer could order the vehicle. Why didn't they just order what you wanted the first time around? I mean, if the system accepts the order, there shouldn't be a mystery, right? I'm not sure why they demanded the large deposit and MSRP for a vehicle "like any other" in the sense that they simply place an order and wait for the vehicle's arrival...

In any event, it's great that they were able to order the wagon you wanted. I would just recommend checking Owner's Circle as soon as they give you the production number so you can verify the order once again.


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## UncleDon (Feb 19, 2003)

*Congratulations, I don't think you could have cut it closer...*

According to my dealer and all information in this forum, next week will be the last week of production for the U.S. spec E46 325iT Sportwagon.
That means that next week (week 52) both of our Tourings should will be built.
My car was given a low priority for production and shipping because I don't plan to drive this car in the winter and so I want to put off my delivery until the snow and salt is gone.


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

uter said:


> Congrats, Bob.
> Touring owners are, I dare say, an elite group. If for no other reason than the rarity of tourings in the USA.
> 
> Remember though, you owe your fellow Bimmerfesters PICS!


Not as elite as the (secret) heated-seats-only forum members...we're even more elite than ZHP owners!


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

norihaga said:


> Not as elite as the (secret) heated-seats-only forum members...we're even more elite than ZHP owners!


 :rofl:

What about the super-secret "Heated Steering Wheel" subforum of that forum?


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

markl53 said:


> I guess there's something I don't understand. Originally, your dealer tried to find a vehicle like you wanted already in the system, correct? Then you found the one he identified was SULEV and therefore was not a manual, and, it wasn't the color you wanted. A call to BMWUSA confirmed that the dealer could order the vehicle. Why didn't they just order what you wanted the first time around? I mean, if the system accepts the order, there shouldn't be a mystery, right? I'm not sure why they demanded the large deposit and MSRP for a vehicle "like any other" in the sense that they simply place an order and wait for the vehicle's arrival...
> 
> In any event, it's great that they were able to order the wagon you wanted. I would just recommend checking Owner's Circle as soon as they give you the production number so you can verify the order once again.


I assume they demanded a large unrefundable deposit is because it would of have been a manual. It seems that a wagon with a 5MT is the black plague for a dealer. My dealer demanded a large unrefundable deposit too


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## UncleDon (Feb 19, 2003)

*A dealer trade?*



markl53 said:


> I guess there's something I don't understand. Originally, your dealer tried to find a vehicle like you wanted already in the system, correct? Then you found the one he identified was SULEV and therefore was not a manual, and, it wasn't the color you wanted. A call to BMWUSA confirmed that the dealer could order the vehicle. Why didn't they just order what you wanted the first time around? I mean, if the system accepts the order, there shouldn't be a mystery, right? I'm not sure why they demanded the large deposit and MSRP for a vehicle "like any other" in the sense that they simply place an order and wait for the vehicle's arrival...
> 
> In any event, it's great that they were able to order the wagon you wanted. I would just recommend checking Owner's Circle as soon as they give you the production number so you can verify the order once again.


They may have had to "trade" with another dealer that had a 325iT on order for stock.
They could then modify the order to change the options.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

UncleDon said:


> ...My car was given a low priority for production and shipping because I don't plan to drive this car in the winter and so I want to put off my delivery until the snow and salt is gone.


 Fortunately, I don't have to deal with that!


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> I assume they demanded a large unrefundable deposit is because it would of have been a manual. It seems that a wagon with a 5MT is the black plague for a dealer. My dealer demanded a large unrefundable deposit too


My dealer wanted a deposit, but didn't even specify an amount. I said, 'how 'bout $1k?' and my sales guy said OK. And non-refundable deposits for cars are illegal in CA, IIRC.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

markl53 said:


> I guess there's something I don't understand. Originally, your dealer tried to find a vehicle like you wanted already in the system, correct? Then you found the one he identified was SULEV and therefore was not a manual, and, it wasn't the color you wanted. A call to BMWUSA confirmed that the dealer could order the vehicle. Why didn't they just order what you wanted the first time around? I mean, if the system accepts the order, there shouldn't be a mystery, right? I'm not sure why they demanded the large deposit and MSRP for a vehicle "like any other" in the sense that they simply place an order and wait for the vehicle's arrival...


There's something about this that i don't understand either, but it's moot now since the car is on order.
Why did two different dealers tell me that I couldn't order an Oxford Green MT car? I guess it could have been a bug in the computerised ordering system.
Why was I told that it was too late to order a car?
The $5k deposit I don't mind, since I can do it and it does indicate that I am serious about this car. If I croak before the car comes in at least the dealer has that $5k and can discount an unpopular combination.
I never figured to get very much of a discount on a special-order vehicle anyway.



> In any event, it's great that they were able to order the wagon you wanted. I would just recommend checking Owner's Circle as soon as they give you the production number so you can verify the order once again.


*Oh YES!* I plan to check on that as soon as I get the production number.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Kaz said:


> My dealer wanted a deposit, but didn't even specify an amount. I said, 'how 'bout $1k?' and my sales guy said OK. And non-refundable deposits for cars are illegal in CA, IIRC.


yeah I heard that after I got our car, never trust a cars sales person  (excluding bimmerfest salepeople  )


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## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

Bob Clevenger said:


> ..I never figured to get very much of a discount on a special-order vehicle anyway.


Almost every car I've ever owned was ordered specifcally for me (about 14). Typically, you should be able to negotiate as good a deal or better than an in-stock vehicle. They know they've got a vehicle sold as soon as it arrives and they don't pay floorplan for an ordered vehicle. It's an easy profit for them to just enter the order and wait for the car to get there. That's been my experience anyway.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Jeff_DML said:


> yeah I heard that after I got our car, never trust a cars sales person  (excluding bimmerfest salepeople  )


The "nonrefundable deposit" bit is a total fallacy, intended moreso to give the client a sense of ownership before actually taking legal ownership of the vehicle (paying for and taking delivery of said vehicle). When someone gives you little or no deposit, it is believed that he has no sense of ownership of the car, and is more likely to walk away on the deal. When you get someone to fork over several thousand, and you make him believe that he won't get it back if he cancels, you'll get him to make sure he wants the car and will follow through with the deal. Little does he (the potential client) know that all it takes is one phone call to get 100% of that deposit back should he cancel the deal.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

SARAFIL said:


> The "nonrefundable deposit" bit is a total fallacy...


 To my dealer's credit, the $5k deposit was never described as "non-refundable." I suppose it was just to gauge how serious I am about buying this car. I suppose I don't look like their usual customer! Whatever; now I'm just waiting for that production number.


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## Daver (May 13, 2002)

Bob Clevenger said:


> There's something about this that i don't understand either, but it's moot now since the car is on order.
> Why did two different dealers tell me that I couldn't order an Oxford Green MT car? I guess it could have been a bug in the computerised ordering system.
> Why was I told that it was too late to order a car?


I've encountered a number of dealers who'd much rather sell you something they've got in inventory, or something they can quickly obtain rather than sell you something you actually _want_. Around this time of year, they also may be wanting to make more year-end sales... better for the y04 books. I suspect that a car ordered in December, but delivered in February would fall into the y05 books.

Regardless, I've been lucky(?) enough to find cars exactly like I wanted without having to order one. I admit, I feel like I'm also missing out on some of the excitement of ordering a tailor-made car, and the option of European Delivery.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Congrats and post pics when you get the car :thumbup: 
Here's mine...


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

that's a steep driveway! :yikes:


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## shizat63 (Feb 14, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> Congrats and post pics when you get the car :thumbup:
> Here's mine...


Whats up Jay


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

shizat63 said:


> Whats up Jay


LOL
Whats up bro? Merry Christmas


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## shizat63 (Feb 14, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> LOL
> Whats up bro? Merry Christmas


Merry Christmas to you 

Thats one sweet iT :thumbup:


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

shizat63 said:


> Merry Christmas to you
> 
> Thats one sweet iT :thumbup:


Thanks man. Nuthin special just wish it were stick.
I'll make sure my M will be  
You going to that meet tomorrow?


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## shizat63 (Feb 14, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> Thanks man. Nuthin special just wish it were stick.
> I'll make sure my M will be
> You going to that meet tomorrow?


You're looking to get an M3  I asked Art about writting off my 330, and it may be possible.

Not going skiing as I hoped, I'll be at the meet in Staten Island. Looks like it's mostly kids though. You?


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Well I just got the bad news.
The order was refused. No more manual trans 325iTs to be made before the line shuts down for retooling.

Don't know what I'll do now.
The new 530xiT looks nice, but it's a lot more money, and it's still not out yet.

Needless to say, don't look for any photos.


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## gesoffen (Jun 18, 2004)

Bob,

I know others have mentioned it before but it's worth mentioning again - try doing a search for a used one if you're really interested in the current generation. The combination of the wagon body and manual transmission make it a slow seller at the dealer lots so prices reflect that. I got my 2001 325iT from a private seller at 20 months old and ~15000 miles for about $15000 under the MSRP for a similarly equipped new wagon. I know NAV is one of your desires but if you can't find one with NAV, there are OEM retrofit kits/instructions out there (just check the DIY forum here on bimmerfest). I'm sure you could retrofit NAV for well under $15000.

Good luck and let us know how the hunt goes (new or used).

Editted to add:
A quick search at the BMW CPO webite brought up a 525iT with manual, PP, SP, HK, Xenon, & NAV. REd with sand interior. 30k miles, $32k. Steve thomas BMW in Camarillo, CA.


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

gesoffen said:


> Bob,
> 
> I know others have mentioned it before but it's worth mentioning again - try doing a search for a used one if you're really interested in the current generation. The combination of the wagon body and manual transmission make it a slow seller at the dealer lots so prices reflect that. I got my 2001 325iT from a private seller at 20 months old and ~15000 miles for about $15000 under the MSRP for a similarly equipped new wagon. I know NAV is one of your desires but if you can't find one with NAV, there are OEM retrofit kits/instructions out there (just check the DIY forum here on bimmerfest). I'm sure you could retrofit NAV for well under $15000.
> 
> ...


5-series wagons are gorgeous....gotta love that chine on the trunk lid.  Sand is especially nice on the five, it feels cavernous inside with the light interior... go on, you know you want to.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Well I just got the bad news.
> The order was refused. No more manual trans 325iTs to be made before the line shuts down for retooling.
> 
> Don't know what I'll do now.
> ...


Sorry to hear bro.
Don't give up tho. Keep searching...


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

gesoffen said:


> Editted to add:
> A quick search at the BMW CPO webite brought up a 525iT with manual, PP, SP, HK, Xenon, & NAV. REd with sand interior. 30k miles, $32k. Steve thomas BMW in Camarillo, CA.


that is worth checking out, we test drove a 525iT manual and acceleration wasnt that bad because of the stick. I would guess you can work off quite a bit of money off of it. They where willing to deal on the new 525iT that we test drove. I think the 5 series wagon in a stick is even a harder sell then the 325iT.


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## UncleDon (Feb 19, 2003)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Well I just got the bad news.
> The order was refused. No more manual trans 325iTs to be made before the line shuts down for retooling.
> 
> Don't know what I'll do now.
> ...


Sorry to hear how poorly your Dealer has handled this. Sounds like they don't really know what they're doing.
My 325iT, which is being built this week (the last week of production) will have a manual transmission.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

UncleDon said:


> Sorry to hear how poorly your Dealer has handled this. Sounds like they don't really know what they're doing.
> My 325iT, which is being built this week (the last week of production) will have a manual transmission.


Sounds to me like his dealer tried to find someone with an available slot to modify, and no one had one to give him. Your case is different because you had already gotten the order in several weeks ago. No one is questioning the availabilty of manual tranny wagons-- I think what they told him was that they could no longer order him one, but that was due to the fact that no one had modifiable slots left. If someone had a modifiable slot, the dealer could have changed the configuration, but they were all past the point of modifying, so they were stuck in the configuration that they were already in.


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## UncleDon (Feb 19, 2003)

SARAFIL said:


> Sounds to me like his dealer tried to find someone with an available slot to modify, and no one had one to give him. Your case is different because you had already gotten the order in several weeks ago. No one is questioning the availabilty of manual tranny wagons-- I think what they told him was that they could no longer order him one, but that was due to the fact that no one had modifiable slots left. If someone had a modifiable slot, the dealer could have changed the configuration, but they were all past the point of modifying, so they were stuck in the configuration that they were already in.


I agree with everything you say and that's what most likely really happened.
The part that bothers me is that last Wednesday, Dec. 23rd, Bob's post read... 
_"Yes! I just returned from my dealer. My 325iT is on order, just as I spec'd it out.
Now for the interminable waiting!"_
Now they tell him they can't get it. Sounds to me like they've mislead him a little and they're using the Manual Tranny option as their excuse... or maybe even trying to move him into an Automatic Transmission car.


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## blockpavick (Dec 22, 2004)

*keep trying!*

Bob, sorry about the problem, I had a sneaky feeling this was going to happen. Have you found a dealer who is willing and has done a complete inventory/incoming search for the USA? You may still find one, but it may take an aggressive dealer who is willing to trade. Or, if you can find the dealer who has a vehicle you want, regardless of location, you could buy direct from them and make a nice road trip or even have it shipped. Good luck again,
Joe B.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Sorry to hear about the bad luck Bob.

I was very nearly in the same boat as you -- however I decided to go with a Subaru Legacy GT wagon with 5MT instead of the 325iT, so I won't encounter the same problems as you did. (they have to order mine as well)

But I do know if I were in your position, I'm not sure what I'd do... you really got the run-around. Sorry to hear about that.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

Fortunately I can wait. Don't _need_ the new car right now --- but _want_ is a different matter!

Salesman showed me the info on the upcoming 5-series Touring, and I must say the idea of a 530iT or 530xiT is definitely appealing, but it would be at a considerable rise in price!
And it's not available yet.

Checked out the new Jaguar Estate Wagon. It's nice and available with a stick -- everywhere but in the USA  I've even considered importing one from Canada, but that would probably drive the cost right through the roof.

Yes, the salesman searched the whole country and only found a very few 325iTs with sticks and they were stripped models.

The used (or "pre-owned" if you prefer) option is worth thinking about too.

Sheesh, it's not like I'm asking BMW to put a 3.0 litre ZHP engine and six-speed trans in a 325iT or anything (although that *does* have a certain appeal).


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Thanks for the kind words everyone.
> 
> Fortunately I can wait. Don't _need_ the new car right now --- but _want_ is a different matter!
> 
> ...


Why not drive a new Legacy, like the aforementioned Legacy wagon? They're actually very nice cars. Subaru has finally got an interior right - at least in the beige GT Ltd. editions - and the turbo lag on the one I drove was truly minimal. Should be able to get a fully loaded wagon for around $28. About half the price of the 5-wagon ... :bawling:


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## TeeZee (May 17, 2004)

2005 LEGACY 2.5 GT WAGON 
MANUAL 5-SPEED 

Standard Features Standard Vehicle Price 
SAFETY FEATURES 
Dual-stage deployment passenger and driver front air bag (SRS)* 
Intelligent air bag system with driver's seat position sensor and front passenger seat occupant detection sensor (SRS)* 
Side curtain air bags (SRS)* 
Seat-mounted front side-impact air bags (SRS)* 
Height-adjustable Active Front Seat Head restraints - help reduce the potential for whiplash in certain collisions 
Three individual height adjustable rear head restraints (height adjustable outboard rear head restraints on sedan) 
Height-adjustable 3-point front seatbelts with pre-tensioners and force limiters; 3-point rear seatbelts at all seating positions 
Rear child safety door locks 
Safety brake pedal system 
Energy-absorbing collapsible steering column 
Ring-Shaped Reinforcement Frame body structure with hydroformed center-pillar construction for increased side-impact protection 
Daytime Running Lights (DRL) 
MECHANICAL FEATURES 
2.5-liter DOHC intercooled, turbocharged aluminum-alloy 16-valve 4-cylinder horizontally opposed Subaru Boxer engine with Active Valve Contol System (AVCS). Iridium spark plugs. 
250 hp @ 6000 rpm 
250 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm 
Continuous AWD: Models equipped with 5-speed manual transmission utilize a viscous-type locking differential with torque distribution configured at a 50/50-split front-to-rear. 2.5 GT models also feature a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential.
Variable Torque Distribution (VDT) AWD: Models equipped with 5-speed automatic transmission utilize an electronically controlled variable transfer clutch in conjuction with a planetary-type center differential. Rear-wheel-biased torque distribution normally configured at 45/55-split front-to-rear. 2.5 GT models also feature a viscous-type limited-slip rear differential. 
LIMITED WARRANTIES 
Basic Warranty - 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first 
Powertrain Warranty - 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first 
Rust Perforation Warranty - 5 years, unlimited mileage 
For complete warranty information, including coverage and exclusions, see your Subaru dealer 

INTERIOR FEATURES 
6-way manually adjustable driver's seat with manually adjustable lumbar support; 4-way manually adjustable front passenger seat 
4-stage heated front seats 
Performance-design front seats 
60/40-split flat-folding rear seatback 
3-spoke MOMO brand steering wheel with manually adjustable tilt column 
Perforated leather-wrapped steering wheel and shifter handle 
Titanium metallic trim on doors, console and automatic shifter handle 
Carpeted floor mats 
Power front and rear windows with driver's auto-down 
Electronically controlled cruise control 
Dual cup holders in center console with retractable lid; retractable dual rear cup holders 
Sun visors with extenders and illuminated vanity mirrors 
Illuminated glove box and in-dash storage compartment 
Center console with armrest and enclosed storage compartment 
12-volt power outlet in center console storage compartment 
Trunk/cargo area concealed under-floor storage tray; concealed storage compartment in wagons' cargo area side panels; dual grocery bag hooks 
Retractable/removable cargo area cover; 4 tie-down hooks 
Analog speedometer, tachometer, coolant temperature and fuel gauges with illuminated red needles on black faces and white indicators 
Sport-design electroluminescent lighting 
Gauge needles full sweep on start up 
Digital odometer and automatic transmission (when equipped) shift-position indicator 
Digital trip computer displaying fuel economy, driving range, digital clock and ambient temperature 
6-speaker audio system with 6-disc in-dash CD player 
Dual-zone automatic digital climate control system with controls for temperature, 6-speed fan, airflow direction, automatic mode and CFC-free air conditioning 
Keyless entry system with cargo area unlock and answer-back electronic chirp 
Antitheft security system with engine immobilizer and answer-back electronic chirp 

EXTERIOR FEATURES 
Projector beam low-beam and multi-reflector high-beam headlights 
Projector beam fog lights 
Aluminum-alloy hood with functional hood scoop (feeds turbocharged intercooler) 
Front bumper with lower air intake and integrated front spoiler 
Body color door handles 
Body color side mirrors with integrated turn signals 
Heated side mirrors and windshield wiper de-icer 
Two-speed windshield wipers with variable intermittent mode 
Single-speed rear window wiper with fixed intmittent mode and de-icer 
Aerodynamic side ground effects 
Aluminum-alloy tailgate with integrated rear spoiler 
Dual chrome exhaust outlets 
Black-finish low-profile roof rails 
Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price: $27,095


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## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

Sorry, but would someone in the market for a BMW actually consider a Subaru? Hmmm, maybe it's just me. When I set my mind on a car, it takes a LOT to change it. To me they are miles apart whether or not features may be somewhat similar. If you drive an MB (like I was) or BMW, I just can't fathom being happy in a Subaru. Again, that's just me.


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## Rob325_in_AZ (Oct 22, 2004)

markl53 said:


> Sorry, but would someone in the market for a BMW actually consider a Subaru? Hmmm, maybe it's just me. When I set my mind on a car, it takes a LOT to change it. To me they are miles apart whether or not features may be somewhat similar. If you drive an MB (like I was) or BMW, I just can't fathom being happy in a Subaru. Again, that's just me.


I understand.

Personally (and this is probably pretty shallow) I don't find any other wagons as visually appealing as the e46. Classy and sporty and not to big. Closest thing would probably be an Audi, but even that is a bloated pig by comparison (and the performance reflects it).

I don't have desire for a wagon myself, but my wife digs 'em and she was really set on our next one being a 325iT 5sp with sport. But, it looks like the best we can hope for is the e90 4 wheel drive. Hopefully the engine refinements will make up for the decrease in fuel efficiency and acceleration with the x-drive.


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

markl53 said:


> Sorry, but would someone in the market for a BMW actually consider a Subaru?  Hmmm, maybe it's just me. When I set my mind on a car, it takes a LOT to change it. To me they are miles apart whether or not features may be somewhat similar. If you drive an MB (like I was) or BMW, I just can't fathom being happy in a Subaru. Again, that's just me.


I drove one; it was good. I got the BMW because I thought I would drive the Legacy for a while and feel like I was missing the fabled 3-series experience. Not sure about that now!

Like I said, this is not your father's Subaru interior. The wood and leather in the beige cars are great, the clocks are especially cool, in an Acura TL sort of way, and there is no lack of power. Top notch car if you want a wagon, and at a top-notch price for the equipment level. 
:dunno:


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

markl53 said:


> Sorry, but would someone in the market for a BMW actually consider a Subaru?


Maybe if they aren't blinded by the badge and the name of the brand is less important than the substance and/or quality of the product. In Bob's case, the car he wants/needs is a BMW...but the don't make it anymore (or, more accurately, they won't be making it long enough for him to order one the way he wants). If they don't offer a vehicle that meets his wants/needs within his budget, what else is he supposed to do? :dunno:


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## UncleDon (Feb 19, 2003)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Thanks for the kind words everyone.
> 
> Fortunately I can wait. Don't _need_ the new car right now --- but _want_ is a different matter!
> 
> ...


Here's a nice pre-owned California Car...
http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/...age=&certified=n&color=&first_record=1***main


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## markl53 (Nov 4, 2004)

·clyde· said:


> Maybe if they aren't blinded by the badge and the name of the brand is less important than the substance and/or quality of the product. In Bob's case, the car he wants/needs is a BMW...but the don't make it anymore (or, more accurately, they won't be making it long enough for him to order one the way he wants). If they don't offer a vehicle that meets his wants/needs within his budget, what else is he supposed to do? :dunno:


Well, I guess I was speaking in a more general sense, but yes, for Bob it might make sense, although Audi & VW make some nice wagons too. I haven't driven the Legacy so I guess I can't really speak to it. I don't think, though, it's a matter of being "blinded" by the badge/name. BMW, MB, Audi, etc are German cars known for excellent handling, performance and road manners, right? I mean after all, isn't that why most of us drive BMWs? If we're saying that Subaru fits the bill, then I guess those Japanese market people need to start revving up their ad campaigns so that we understand better that it's an alternative to German vehicles.

Oh, I just checked. The 2.5 liter engine in the Outback is a 4 cylinder. The 3.0 liter 6 is available only with automatic transmission.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

UncleDon said:


> Here's a nice pre-owned California Car...
> http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/...age=&certified=n&color=&first_record=1***main


the one we where looking at was spec very similiar and it was only $3k more brand new from our dealer. So I figure you should be able to find one cheaper then that or work this one down quite a bit.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

If I were in the market now instead of 4 years ago, the Legacy would be looking awful good compared to a 325.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

Would you consider a 2004, if they made you a killer deal?

Would this car work?

Dealer: 04444-01 
SONNEN BMW 
SAN RAFAEL , CA 94901-5503 

Chassis Number: PE92145 

Priority / Description: 3 - PRIORITY STOCK 

Status 
DEALER INVENTORY 

Model Year 
2004 

Model Code / Desc. 
0436 325xiT 

Color Code / Desc. 
317 Orient Blue Metallic 

Upholstery Code / Desc. 
N6NG Natural Brown Leather 

Options: 
ZCW - cold weather package 
ZPP - premium package 
ZSP - sport package 
522 - xenon headlights 
674 - harman-kardon sound system 
926 - full-size spare tire


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## IndyMike (Dec 19, 2001)

SARAFIL said:


> Would you consider a 2004, if they made you a killer deal?
> 
> Would this car work?
> 
> ...


Whoa! What a wicked combo. Seems to me I've seen it somewhere before. 

Bob, I know you were hoping for OG, but OB is not a bad substitute. It tilts a bit towards the high maintenance category, but when shined up no color on the palette rocks more IMHO. My wife's Touring has all of the above options, sans CWP (although she does have heated seats), AWD, and it's a slushie instead of stick. Regarding the sport package, my wife tends to lean towards cars with a soft ride, but fortunately for her (me? ) she lets me decide which cars she will get, and she's never complained about the SP ride being harsh. And being all female she's not bashful about giving me the business when I've made a bad call in her eyes. If you are still serious about getting any E46 Touring, and this one in particular, do yourself a favor and just test drive a normal SP equipped sedan.
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Anyway, here are a few pretty close pics of what the subject ride will look like. Just drop me a PM with your e-mail addy if you would like me to zip up some other examples.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

IndyMike said:


> Regarding the sport package, my wife tends to lean towards cars with a soft ride, but fortunately for her (me? ) she lets me decide which cars she will get, and she's never complained about the SP ride being harsh.


:stupid:


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## UncleDon (Feb 19, 2003)

IndyMike said:


> Whoa! What a wicked combo. Seems to me I've seen it somewhere before.
> 
> Regarding the sport package, my wife tends to lean towards cars with a soft ride, but fortunately for her (me? ) she lets me decide which cars she will get, and she's never complained about the SP ride being harsh. And being all female she's not bashful about giving me the business when I've made a bad call in her eyes. If you are still serious about getting any E46 Touring, and this one in particular, do yourself a favor and just test drive a normal SP equipped sedan.
> I think you will be pleasantly surprised.


The Touring that Sarafil found is a AWD xiT so it doesn't have the Sport Package suspension, but it does have the better Sport Seats and 17" wheels.


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## stewthebassman (Nov 10, 2004)

Kaz said:


> If I were in the market now instead of 4 years ago, the Legacy would be looking awful good compared to a 325.


 And the 2005 Outback XT, 4 cylinder Turbo with 250 hp and 250 torque is a fantastic car, make no mistake about it!


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

stewthebassman said:


> And the 2005 Outback XT, 4 cylinder Turbo with 250 hp and 250 torque is a fantastic car, make no mistake about it!


Outback? The suspension goes in the wrong direction.


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## uter (Jan 6, 2002)

SARAFIL said:


> Would you consider a 2004, if they made you a killer deal?
> 
> Would this car work?
> 
> ...


No option of automatic transmission listed, is this a five speed?


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## IndyMike (Dec 19, 2001)

UncleDon said:


> The Touring that Sarafil found is a AWD xiT so it doesn't have the Sport Package suspension, but it does have the better Sport Seats and 17" wheels.


Correctomundo. I forgot the SP in xi trim is limited to the options you mentioned plus the 3 spoke sport steering wheel. Thanks for setting the record straight.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Bob, why not an Audi wagon? If you want performance and don't mind paying $20k more, perhaps an S4 wagon...


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Nice find SARAFIL!
Yes, this would do nicely if I got a good deal on it.
Would I have to go up to San Rafael (I can drive that road in my sleep!) or would something else be able to be arranged? Sorry, I don't know the ins and outs of the business as you do.

Other questions:
What are the differences between '04 and '05?
I plan to use Bluetooth.
How hard (and expensive) is it to add the nav system?

The above are my big questions. This car looks great if the answers to these questions are right.

Again: THANK YOU!
Drop me an e-mail to bobATbobclevenger.com and let me know. The finances should be set up by tomorrow and the money here soon after.



SARAFIL said:


> Would you consider a 2004, if they made you a killer deal?
> 
> Would this car work?
> 
> ...


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

IndyMike said:


> Whoa! What a wicked combo. Seems to me I've seen it somewhere before.
> 
> Bob, I know you were hoping for OG, but OB is not a bad substitute.


Yes, OB is a very nice colour. My local dealer has one on the showroom floor (autoomatic, though) and it is about my second choice. I've looked at it a lot.


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

markl53 said:


> Well, I guess I was speaking in a more general sense, but yes, for Bob it might make sense, although Audi & VW make some nice wagons too. I haven't driven the Legacy so I guess I can't really speak to it. I don't think, though, it's a matter of being "blinded" by the badge/name. BMW, MB, Audi, etc are German cars known for excellent handling, performance and road manners, right? I mean after all, isn't that why most of us drive BMWs? If we're saying that Subaru fits the bill, then I guess those Japanese market people need to start revving up their ad campaigns so that we understand better that it's an alternative to German vehicles.
> 
> Oh, I just checked. The 2.5 liter engine in the Outback is a 4 cylinder. The 3.0 liter 6 is available only with automatic transmission.


For the outback, yes, but that's the allroad/XC70 version of the Legacy chassis - we're talking about the Legacy wagon, which in GT Ltd. trim is a tweaked, less-laggy version of the WRX-spec boxer 4. The 6 is an old, low-performance engine option with Subaru...straight out of the SVX.

S4 Avant is also a gorgeous car, but I would actually rather have Subaru reliability than Audi reliability  (Drove a friend's Impreza RS regularly for a year...so I have a little experience with Scoobys. )


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## norihaga (Aug 25, 2004)

IndyMike said:


> Whoa! What a wicked combo. Seems to me I've seen it somewhere before.
> 
> Bob, I know you were hoping for OG, but OB is not a bad substitute. It tilts a bit towards the high maintenance category, but when shined up no color on the palette rocks more IMHO. My wife's Touring has all of the above options, sans CWP (although she does have heated seats), AWD, and it's a slushie instead of stick. Regarding the sport package, my wife tends to lean towards cars with a soft ride, but fortunately for her (me? ) she lets me decide which cars she will get, and she's never complained about the SP ride being harsh. And being all female she's not bashful about giving me the business when I've made a bad call in her eyes. If you are still serious about getting any E46 Touring, and this one in particular, do yourself a favor and just test drive a normal SP equipped sedan.
> I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
> ...


That natural brown interior is nice!


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Yes, OB is a very nice colour. My local dealer has one on the showroom floor (autoomatic, though) and it is about my second choice. I've looked at it a lot.


 Touring in Orient Blue in various lighting and cleanliness/dirtiness: photos


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## santiago (Jun 2, 2004)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Nice find SARAFIL!
> Yes, this would do nicely if I got a good deal on it.
> Would I have to go up to San Rafael (I can drive that road in my sleep!) or would something else be able to be arranged? Sorry, I don't know the ins and outs of the business as you do.
> 
> ...


I can't answer your queswtion regarding the differences between '04 and '05 but you can easily add Bluetooth as long as the car does not come with Assist. Even then you can just simply choose to forego Assist and choose to go with Bluetooth instead. As for the NAV system retrofit, it is possible to retrofit NAV. There is a retrofit kit that is a DIY. Check this thread out: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=203145 I think it will cost about $2000 to do this. i don't know how much the dealer would charge you but it will likely run double that.


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## IndyMike (Dec 19, 2001)

norihaga said:


> That natural brown interior is nice!


Thanks! You can say that again.

I guess you could call me a Natural brown noser.


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## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Well, here I am again.
After almost going for a new M3 but then getting better sense (great car, will hold guitar cases!, but I just can't justify the cost), I called the nice folks at Sonnen BMW in No Cal. Yes they still have the OB 325xiT that Serafil found. We chatted for a few minutes and came to a deal. Now I just have to go get it! That and start the nav retrofit process, which ought to keep me busy for a few weeks!

Thanks to everyone again, especially Serafil. Widout youse guys I wouldn't have this E46 Touring.


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## santiago (Jun 2, 2004)

Bob Clevenger said:


> Well, here I am again.
> After almost going for a new M3 but then getting better sense (great car, will hold guitar cases!, but I just can't justify the cost), I called the nice folks at Sonnen BMW in No Cal. Yes they still have the OB 325xiT that Serafil found. We chatted for a few minutes and came to a deal. Now I just have to go get it! That and start the nav retrofit process, which ought to keep me busy for a few weeks!
> 
> Thanks to everyone again, especially Serafil. Widout youse guys I wouldn't have this E46 Touring.


Glad to keep you in the Touring fold. :thumbup:


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