# why are bmws so expensive?



## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

Why are BMW's expensive?

I bet it is because German workers only work 18 days a year 

(Ok, I exaurated - they work 19  )


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## jrp (Nov 11, 2004)

car_for_mom said:


> Are Bimmers overpriced? Undoubtedly. So are Monets, Renoirs, Rolexes, Kobe Beef and Beluga Caviar. Are they worth it? Yep! :thumbup:


If they're worth it, then they're not overpriced.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

there're just way more parts in a premium car. check out the underside of the 2 cars. under and behind the front bumper you'll notice there are plastic covers and pieces that redirect airflow under the bmw whereas the economy cars will likely not. same with the underside of the rear bumpers. the 3er front suspension is composed of cast aluminum components. often eco suspensions are composed of stamped steel components.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Beer prices are up, so Munich is adjusting the prices. :drink:


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## icemanjs4 (Dec 1, 2004)

We're also forgetting about all of those subtle little features that Bimmers have. Like the Red/Blue dial in the center of the AC vents. Or seat memories, or HK sound with 12 speakers. Or leg extensions on Sports seats. Don't forget about a flashlight in the glove compartment, or a key that recharges itself every time you get in the car. It's got Oh-**** handles on all 4 doors. And most importantly, a driver-oriented cockpit. These little things in and of themselves aren't that impressive, but add that to an already amazing car, and it just makes it unbeatable.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

icemanjs4 said:


> We're also forgetting about all of those subtle little features that Bimmers have. Like the Red/Blue dial in the center of the AC vents. Or seat memories, or HK sound with 12 speakers. Or leg extensions on Sports seats. Don't forget about a flashlight in the glove compartment, or a key that recharges itself every time you get in the car. It's got Oh-**** handles on all 4 doors. And most importantly, a driver-oriented cockpit. These little things in and of themselves aren't that impressive, but add that to an already amazing car, and it just makes it unbeatable.


mine only has the handles on the pass side. my old integra had a driver oriented cockpit. :dunno: no hk sound here, only 6 speakers. no armrest. there are lots of things that bmw cheap out on as well though. such as centre located window lift controls on the 3er's only.


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## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

Two cars:
1. '02 Toyota Celica GTS
2. '02 BMW 325ci

Both are coupes, both have leather and other similar options, both have similar performance characteristics. Yet the BMW costs several thousand more.

Ever driven the two? I have - I owned a GTS, and still own a 325ci (soon to be replaced by a 330ci ZHP, but I digress...)

So what's different? First of all, ride quality. A 3 year-old Celica is a buzzy, rattly, noisy thrasher compared to a Bimmer. Even with 50k miles on it, the BMW *still* eats up bumps without fuss, jarring, or that feeling of looseness that makes you feel less impressed with the car than the day you bought it. Oh, and hit the highway and the two cars are like night and day.

Second, curb appeal. Both look sporty. But picture: a nice night out with the wife. I'm wearing a suit, she's dressed to kill, and we pull up to the entrance of a high-end restaurant. Which car would you rather step out of? A BMW is *classy*.

Then there's the little German-engineering things. Like auto-one-touch-down-AND-up for all the windows AND the sunroof. An interior air filter. Tons of safety features. And that oh-so-cool dash-vent-temperature control that lets me breath cool air while the heat's on.

BMWs can be smooth and silky, or raw and ferocious, or anything in-between. It just depends on what YOU, the driver want to be doing at that second. It's all up to your hands and feet; the car does the rest as you dictate. A Celica will always be just a Celica.

Put another way: a BMW isn't a 10 in anything, but it's an 8 or 9 in EVERYTHING.

Now, there IS Toyota reliability in a Celica... but hopefully BMW is making strides in that department.


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## Rmart (Feb 20, 2002)

*The answer;*

Rolex or Timex.
They both tell time perfectly.

97 Joseph Phelps Insignia or Trader Joes "Two Buck Chuck" wine.
They are both made from the same thing.

Jackson Pollock or a reproduction.
Most people probably cannot tell.

Dinner at Aqua or dinner at Red Lobster.
Its all seafood.

The South of France or Cabo.
Both have beach and sand.

If you prefer the latter then a Sentra should make you happy. But if you don't "get it" then that is ok. It's common for people to mock what they do not understand.

Enjoy


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

There is a purpose and place for all cars... I will always have one German car and one Japanese car. One is better engineered and more rewarding to drive, the other much more reliable and cheaper to run. Totally different cars, but I enjoy the best features of both.


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## fatelvis15 (Jul 20, 2004)

I don't know why, exactly, BMWs are expensive. I will, however, offer the following thoughts:

1. If people will pay it, there's no reason why a company should not charge it. You can't tell me a iPod costs anywhere near retail to mass-produce, yet that company still manages to have cornered a market based on sound business practices.

2. Once again, the over-all package. My car is solid, handles beautifully, has a quiet interior, great sound (that I can listen to without blasting because the roadnoise is minimal, even on SoCal roads,) and, get ready for this, I actually enjoy driving it! Even for hours! It's a far cry from anything else I've driven as far as creature comforts. It's not the fastest thing on the road but it cruises solidly and comfortably at 100mph, (not that I would ever drive that fast,) and can still beat out one of those Mazdaspeed Miatas which have the same curb wieght. Sure, one of my buddies had a MR2 Spider that could accelerate like a demon, but it felt like riding in a cardboard box, or maybe a Pine Wood Derby car.

3. Name Brand. Okay, this is a little cheesy because the brand doesn't actually add any real quality to the car. It does, however, alude to quality, and there is a little prestige that seems to have built around this area too. Being from a lower middle class family myself, it's nice show up places in a "B-M Dauble Ewe" ... (think Mr. Howell's accent from Gilligan's Island.) Even people who drive the rice rocket cars recognize the BMW and possibly even envy it, although they won't admit that. I still get, "Dude, is that your Beemer? Sweet."


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

dankykev04 said:


> my car is the love of my life.


You answered your own question. :dunno:

I'm late to the thread party (as usual), and most people already touched on what makes a BMW worth it.



dankykev04 said:


> i ought to show my stupid friend who swears by his "sweet ass sentra" this forum and see what he has to say! you people are lifesavers!


Don't.

Let him enjoy his car. And then go spend some intimate time with your own car on an open road. :thumbup:


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## jetstream23 (Mar 9, 2004)

How many "Sentrafest" members are there?

End of conversation.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

jetstream23 said:


> How many "Sentrafest" members are there?
> 
> End of conversation.


Before you get on your high horse there, Google gives me the *b15sentra.net* forum as the second hit. 

*b15sentra.net* (focus on the current generation Sentra)
Threads: 85,082, Posts: 1,268,995, Members: 13,012

*bimmerfest* (focus on all BMWs)
Threads: 78,728, Posts: 994,906, Members: 18,872
(didn't we already cross 1 million posts?  )


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

Rmart said:


> Rolex or Timex.
> They both tell time perfectly.


Actually, my Rolex (Explorer II, white face, stainless steel) keeps terrible time compared to any of my "cheap" watches with a quartz movement. But it's still my favorite watch. The value of some objects defy logic; sometimes only through the joy of ownership can their true worth be measured, and even then only understood by few.

--J.


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## JetBlack330i (Feb 8, 2002)

FenPhen said:


> *b15sentra.net* (focus on the current generation Sentra)
> Threads: 85,082, Posts: 1,268,995, Members: 13,012
> 
> *bimmerfest* (focus on all BMWs)
> ...


That was before TD deleted some of his posts. :eeps:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Yes, some posts are being deleted. At this very hour, the cumulative post count is 1,057,382


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## dallasfan824 (Nov 21, 2004)

jetstream23 said:


> How many "Sentrafest" members are there?
> 
> End of conversation.


ROFL :rofl:


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## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

Ten years ago in Germany I saw a woman hit a deer at probably 120 mph on the Autobahn at around midnite and take out a few hundred meters of guardrail. There wasn't much left of the 5 Series, but she was unhurt and bitching at the Police about doing a better job of keeping the stags off the highway! I went home and called my wife in the US immediately..."I just witnessed one of the best reasons to own a BMW".


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## e46shift (Oct 12, 2002)

you paying for alot of stuff with a bimmer(safety,comfort,luxury,badge). but if you want a performing one you need to spend alot.
its one reason i got rid of mine. ppl think you are a rich kid instead of a car enthusiast
bmw's are a great overall balance in many things, maybe i'll go back when im older :eeps:


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## The Other Tom (Sep 28, 2002)

woody underwood said:


> Ten years ago in Germany I saw a woman hit a deer at probably 120 mph on the Autobahn at around midnite and take out a few hundred meters of guardrail. There wasn't much left of the 5 Series, but she was unhurt and bitching at the Police about doing a better job of keeping the stags off the highway! I went home and called my wife in the US immediately..."I just witnessed one of the best reasons to own a BMW".


What he said.


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## mickey513 (Jun 12, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> PS what is a "Sentra"?


A Nissan Sentra is Nissan's version of the Honda Civic. Here are pictures of it depending on which "model" of the Sentra you look at:

http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ntl?kbb;;&94134;sed&1791;;Nissan&Nissan;2005 Sentra&&&&nyrnc


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

mickey513 said:


> A Nissan Sentra is Nissan's version of the Honda Civic. Here are pictures of it depending on which "model" of the Sentra you look at:
> 
> http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.ntl?kbb;;&94134;sed&1791;;Nissan&Nissan;2005 Sentra&&&&nyrnc


Ah, OK. We used to have a Nissan Stanza, which was a Chevy Cavalier-sized car, with smaller engines.


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## 330ciPfmcePkg05 (Jan 17, 2005)

its a bmw


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

dankykev04 said:


> don't get me wrong, my car is the love of my life. but what bothers me is when my friend's nissan sentra se-r spec v costing upwards of a whole SEVENTEEN GRAND can outrun my car. now i payed almost thrice that and my only claim to fame is that i can afford it and he can't. is that the best way to look at bmw's? expensive luxury vehicles for people with money to burn?


You can go to Circuit City and by a cheap surround sound receiver with every gizmo and a hundred watts per channel that'll blow your head off for next to nothing.

Or you can go to a boutique shop and buy a tube amp with, say, 10 to 30 watts per channel, no surround, no features of any kind (not even a volume knob in some cases) and pay upwards of 200 times the cost of the Circuit City deal.

One's significantly louder and one sounds significantly better (to the educated ear); I'll let you decide which is which.

Ed


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

EdCT said:


> You can go to Circuit City and by a cheap surround sound receiver with every gizmo and a hundred watts per channel that'll blow your head off for next to nothing.
> 
> Or you can go to a boutique shop and buy a tube amp with, say, 10 to 30 watts per channel, no surround, no features of any kind (not even a volume knob in some cases) and pay upwards of 200 times the cost of the Circuit City deal.
> 
> ...


hmm... so which one is better, left or right? :dunno:


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

dankykev04 said:


> .. nissan sentra se-r spec ... can outrun my car.


If you sum up a car solely based on 'this car can out run that car' then your priorities merit exactly what you should drive.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

There is more to life than what something costs. If you don['t want to pay for it, then don't.

I wear a Rolex. My suits are custom tailored. I drink single malt whiskys. I have a high end computer. I travel business class. I leat in fine restuarants (some of the time). I own BMWs. I ENJOY my pleasures in life, and while I can't say cost is no object, life is too short to cut corners everywhere.

If you want to be a Timex, off the rack, Budweiser, 386, cheaptickets.com, McDonald's, Sentra type of person, go for it. But if you own a BMW it obviouslyhad value to YOU, so enjoy it, and the heck with what other peole think or drive.

BTW compare the resale of a 10 year old BMW with a 10 year old Sentra.


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## MaxBuck (Jan 30, 2005)

Pinecone said:


> There is more to life than what something costs. If you don['t want to pay for it, then don't.
> 
> I wear a Rolex. My suits are custom tailored. I drink single malt whiskys. I have a high end computer. I travel business class. I leat in fine restuarants (some of the time). I own BMWs. I ENJOY my pleasures in life, and while I can't say cost is no object, life is too short to cut corners everywhere.
> 
> ...


Hey Pinecone - I drink Macallan's 18, and Caymus, but wear Dockers and a Timex and really like Breakfast Burritos (cost no object). And I would really like a 545 or 745 to be my next ride. Where's that place me? :thumbup: You raise some good points though about choosing to enjoy the things in life that bring you pleasure, without having "cost-effectiveness" rule every decision.

One of the problems I foresee in driving a Bimmer is that so many Bimmer drivers are so doggone arrogant about what they drive. And I am not eager to be painted with that brush. Frankly, even if I choose to drive a 5er, it doesn't mean my neighbor is a Philistine for choosing to drive a Camry. Just different priorities and different preferences.


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## jrp (Nov 11, 2004)

MaxBuck said:


> ...so many Bimmer drivers are so doggone arrogant about what they drive.


Don't worry about them, neither (the same way Pinecone has posited that cost-effectiveness shouldn't really be the cardinal rule that everyone should live by)....

I'd like to think that all those arrogant, sphincterian poseurs driving Bimmers (and who probably call them Beamers) are helping to subsidize my costs --- by leasing/buying more BMW's, they keep them from being more expensive than they already are.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

MaxBuck said:


> One of the problems I foresee in driving a Bimmer is that so many Bimmer drivers are so doggone arrogant about what they drive. And I am not eager to be painted with that brush. Frankly, even if I choose to drive a 5er, it doesn't mean my neighbor is a Philistine for choosing to drive a Camry. Just different priorities and different preferences.


Unfortunately, the amount of crap you get for driving a BMW is related to how others perceive your status in life and the status of your peers. A lot of people react to the car right away, and will paint you with the brush whether you fit the stereotype or not.

Don't let that be an issue though, before and after you buy one. :thumbup:


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## my3rdbimmer (Jan 12, 2005)

you have to look at the cost v/s value.

i was in an accident in december with my 328i i idi 9600.00 worth of damage to it. wy children and i made it through the whold ordeal with out a scratch..i know for a fact if i where driving a sentra i at least would have been hurt if not worse... so that being said the value certainly outweighed the cost..


one complaint i do have is that the cup holders in every bmw i have owned has been by far the worst i have ever seen in any car...any one find a cup that fits in it?? and also when i use mine i cant use the arm rest.. that is the only thing that my mazda mx6 has over my bimmer


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

Acura, Jaguar, Lexus, Mercedes, Saab, Volvo, Audi, Cadillac, Infiniti, Lincoln, sh!t a Chrysler 300 can go for 39 grand, and I haven’t even mentioned the high prices SUV's command these days. 

I find no reason to single BMW out. A more fair debate would be, why do people buy expensive luxery cars.


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## jrp (Nov 11, 2004)

Artslinger said:


> I find no reason to single BMW out. A more fair debate would be, why do people buy expensive luxery cars.


I think it's because there are quite a number of arrogant and/or brand-whore and/or status seeking BMW drivers out there. Additionally (and perhaps more importantly), most non-car people have a difficult time understanding the purchase of a BMW:

1. Aren't MB's and Lexus more luxurious?
2. Aren't Porsches faster?
3. But the Acura is FWD, why go with RWD?
4. Audis are better in the snow, right?
5. Aren't Volvos safer?
6. I heard the Infiniti cost less and has more power?
7. There's more room in a Caddy, isn't there?
8. Why didn't you get a Shaguar, baby?
9. My Camry gets better mileage.
10. Isn't your car in the shop a lot?


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## Oscswa (Sep 23, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> Ah, OK. We used to have a Nissan Stanza, which was a Chevy Cavalier-sized car, with smaller engines.


Andy,

Your right. It's a Nissan Stanza overseas or a Nissan Tisurro...I am not sure if I spelled that right.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

jrp said:


> I think it's because there are quite a number of arrogant and/or brand-whore and/or status seeking BMW drivers out there. Additionally (and perhaps more importantly), most non-car people have a difficult time understanding the purchase of a BMW:
> 
> 1. Aren't MB's and Lexus more luxurious?
> 2. Aren't Porsches faster?
> ...


But the BMW comes in 2nd in every category, and no other car comes close as an overall package.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

MaxBuck said:


> Hey Pinecone - I drink Macallan's 18, and Caymus, but wear Dockers and a Timex and really like Breakfast Burritos (cost no object). And I would really like a 545 or 745 to be my next ride. Where's that place me? :thumbup: You raise some good points though about choosing to enjoy the things in life that bring you pleasure, without having "cost-effectiveness" rule every decision.
> 
> One of the problems I foresee in driving a Bimmer is that so many Bimmer drivers are so doggone arrogant about what they drive. And I am not eager to be painted with that brush. Frankly, even if I choose to drive a 5er, it doesn't mean my neighbor is a Philistine for choosing to drive a Camry. Just different priorities and different preferences.


For casual wear, I wear Dockers too.  I also eat Breakfast Burritos and MickyDs, Popeyes, etc. Drink beer even. 

Bascially just becasue something is cheap, doesn't make it bad. And just because something is expensive doesn't make it not worth the cost.

Life is too short to worry about the small stuff. Enjoy life, in whatever way makes YOU happy.

WRT arrogant BMW drivers mentioning that I have 3 normally puts them in their place.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

jrp said:


> I think it's because there are quite a number of arrogant and/or brand-whore and/or status seeking BMW drivers out there. Additionally (and perhaps more importantly), most non-car people have a difficult time understanding the purchase of a BMW:
> 
> 1. Aren't MB's and Lexus more luxurious?
> 2. Aren't Porsches faster?
> ...


Well said.


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## jrp (Nov 11, 2004)

Pinecone said:


> But the BMW comes in 2nd in every category, and no other car comes close as an overall package.


Absoutely. Sometimes, being a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none isn't such a bad thing.


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## joema (Aug 28, 2002)

BMWs (at least 3 series) aren't that expensive relative to some common vehicles. A well-optioned GM Silvarado 2500HD pickup truck has an MSRP of about $43k. Likewise a well-optioned Toyota Sienna minivan has an MSRP of about $43k.

It's quite possible the "good old boy" in his truck or soccer mom in her minivan looking down at your 325i is driving a more expensive vehicle.

Yes a WRX out-accelerates a 330i. So what. It's not like BMW owners are so stupid they couldn't look up the specs before purchasing. They didn't mistakenly buy a BMW thinking it out accelerates everything else.

You don't buy a silk shirt because it out wears polyester, or is easier to clean. You buy it because it feels and looks good.

There's a lot more to driving enjoyment than 0-60 numbers and lateral G force. Enthusiasts buy BMWs because of the overall driving experience. IOW it feels good, whether at 4/10ths or 10/10ths.

The WRX is an amazing little car, but does not have the best acceleration per dollar. That honor likely belongs to the Dodge Neon SRT-4 Stage 3, which is a dealer-delivered car capable of low 13 quarter mile ETs totally stock, and some have reported high 12s. Yes it's unrefined relative to the WRX, just like the WRX is relative to a 3 series.


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