# '01 540/6 vs. '01 330/5



## IllH (Apr 24, 2004)

I'm looking to pick up a 2001 540/6 or a 330/5. There is an obvious difference in size, style,power, weight, etc,,, but how would you stack them up against each other in overall performance, handling, reliability, etc??? (both have the m-performance package)


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## Sands (Apr 7, 2004)

Reliability. 3 series is probably slightly better, both are solid though.

Performance: Dead heat, depends on what you call performance. At a track day, I was on pace with 330s in my 540. The track was a balance of power and tight stuff. At auto crosses, I'm 5-10% slower then stock 330s. I'm on all seasons, and a few of them run R-compound tires.

The 530 will have better turn in and steering feel - different stearing system. The five is not a car you can toss like a 3 series, it's designed to eat freeway miles at high speed in comfort, but still provide for spirited driving. With the right skills and techniques, the 5 is just as fast though, especially at higher speeds. In tight autocross stuff, the 5 is at a disadvantage, but not much. Slightly bigger tires and more power make up for the extra size and mass.

Common mods are to add a stiff rear sway to reduce understeer. this does help some, adustable dampers or adding front camber during an alignment will improve turn in. Lowering springs will add more camber too for the same effect.

Bottom line is the 5 is less tossable, but just as fast as the 3.

The brakes on the 5 are comperable to the 3. Very similar stopping distances.


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## Ohmess (May 29, 2003)

*Depends on what you are looking for.*

Sands has a ton of good stuff above that I'm not going to repeat, but here's a couple of additional thoughts.

The 540 is roomier, both for the driver and especially for passengers. I love the high speed stability of the 540. These two factors make the 540 more comfortable for traveling. On the down side, the 540 is more expensive. Insurance, repairs, and gasoline will all cost you more.

The 330 is more tossable and perhaps more fun. The 540 is a better long distance, high speed cruiser and is more practical in that you can carry more stuff. I also think the 540 is classier.

I love my 540 (can you tell). :thumbup: Good luck.


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## Mark540iSport (Mar 5, 2004)

Great points so far. One more to consider. If both cars offer a great driving experience which is only differentiated on a track then one must consider other more subjective factors.

I will on occassion take my wife or business associates for a drink at the Four Seasons or other fine establishment. The 540 arrives in style with all occupants comfortably extracting themselves from the vehicle with class. And it is of course parked by the valet on full display right out front of the hotel. Makes you feel like a proud papa.

In contrast a 3 series will require the valet to pull on the arms of your rear seat occupants to help them extract themselves from the rear seats after which your car will be parked underground with the rest....

Well OK, it's not that bad. The 3 is a great car and you absolutely wouldn't go wrong with it, but I've never seen one on "display" as such. There are just too many of them to make it unique.

Kind of like having to choose between two beautiful women eh? What a nice problem to have!


Cheers and good luck!


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Consider how much long distance driving you do-- or simply how much time you spend in the car per day. I have an e46, but I find e39s considerably more comfortable. After an hour in my 325i, i'm sore and cranky. After 4 hours driving an e39, I'm fine.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2004)

2001 330s were awful. The DBW throttle was in its first year and had a horrible lag. Many/most '01s also had the hyper-boosted steeering and, even after the retrofit, things weren't really "right".

It's just much easier to skip '01 330s. I'd even get an '00 328 before I got an '01 330.

And I know from what I speak as I had an '01 330i 5-spd w/SP for 13 months before I traded it in on a '98 M3.


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## humanoid (Mar 31, 2002)

Split the difference and get a e46 M3


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

robg said:


> Consider how much long distance driving you do-- or simply how much time you spend in the car per day. I have an e46, but I find e39s considerably more comfortable. After an hour in my 325i, i'm sore and cranky. After 4 hours driving an e39, I'm fine.


I don't deny the 5er has more comfort, but I've driven 12 hours + in my 330 without getting "sore and cranky." Maybe you need to work on your seat adjustments? :dunno:


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## first5ny (Apr 18, 2004)

I have ta 528 and it is awesome. Beieve it or not some times it feels a little big with just me in it. With the family of 4, however, it is just right. There are times when I think that my next BWM will be a 3 series. The just feel sportier.

Mark,

Valet and BMW. Thats like governmental intelligence; it doesn't work. No one gets to drive this but me and my wife.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

As an owner of both an E46 330 (02) and an E39 540 (00), I will comment on the two. 

I've driven both long distances and found them to be equally comfortable. The same is true for a trip to the store. Since I have modified the 5's suspension pretty heavily, it feels as tossable as the stock 3.

When I was doing some pretty intense work to the 5, I used the 3 as my car about town. The most frustrating thing for me was the lack of Interstate power. There's not much like a V8's long legs... Stop light drags to 50mph are won with authority in the tourquey 5 and close in the 3. I notice more people notice the 5 than the 3.

The best analogy here is the one about two beautiful women. Though us married farts would suggest that it's more like choosing between two beautiful- well- cars.

Let us know what you decide.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Plaz said:


> I don't deny the 5er has more comfort, but I've driven 12 hours + in my 330 without getting "sore and cranky." Maybe you need to work on your seat adjustments? :dunno:


For me, I think its mostly about the seats themselves--- I can sit in an e39/38 standard seat, not be too picky w/ the adjustments and be fine. OTOH, Ifine tune the sport seats in my e46 and start feeling pain after about an hour. :dunno: I guess i'm in the minority to feel such a big difference between to the 2. I do prefer the look and feel of the e46 to the e39 though. IF swapping seats were financially viable, i guess i'd do that-- but I digress...


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## IllH (Apr 24, 2004)

Thanks a lot for the great responses. Everything that I’ve had to deal w/ in terms of bmw has been a great experience so far (including this forum) *that’s why I’m so excited to pick one up already!* 
Another dilemma I'm having is whether to buy from a bmw dealership or an independent dealer. There is a huge price difference (enough for me to purchase an after market warranty and still have a few thousand left over), but I don't get the security of buying from an established dealer. I am still planning on taking the independent dealer car to a bmw dealership for inspection. Has anybody had any experience with this? Advice? Thanks!


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## e46/330/cp (Apr 25, 2004)

I got the 330 coupe and part of the reason I'm planning to sell it (and why I'm researching here) is because of the 3-series stigma. There are just so very many of those owned by rich excuse me for saying so- *punk* kids, that it gives the car a bad image. 

Demographics on the forums say the 'typical' 3-series owner is 18-24 years old, still in college, but with a high household income. They call themselves 'ballers' and 'players' and use the words 'sweet' and 'awesome' a lot...

Does this have anything to do with the fact that my car has been keyed twice in different locations in the past few months? I don't know... but the car does have a 'kid' image...

The 5-series is another story entirely.
Average age is 47, and presumably someone who bought the car themself.
From what I've seen, the 5-series caries none of the stigma of the 3, while retaining all of its best qualities, not to mention, if you want to drive fast, its flies much better 'under the radar' than say a two door 3-series. Plus its just a more distinguished car. Definitely an adults car. 

My 2 cents-


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## Ohmess (May 29, 2003)

*I bought mine from an independent dealer*

I got my 540 from AutoAdvantage in Manassas, VA. and had a good experience with them. They make a profit, so I know I did not pay the absolute rock bottom price, but they do a nice job of selecting used cars, and they showed me everything they evaluated on my vehicle before I bought it. I also happen to distrust the certified pre-owned thing and think its something of a gimick, so certified or not I do my homework on any used car. Having the vechicle checked by an independent mechanic is key.

I also felt like the warranty would cover me with anything really big. One thing to point out, if you drive the 540 and get a shimmy around 45 mph or so, don't buy it. I think this is more of a 528 thing, but in any event I've read about lots of guys having a ton of trouble getting this problem solved. There are lots of used BMWs out there. Good luck. :thumbup:


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

e46/330/cp said:


> I got the 330 coupe and part of the reason I'm planning to sell it (and why I'm researching here) is because of the 3-series stigma. There are just so very many of those owned by rich excuse me for saying so- *punk* kids, that it gives the car a bad image.


Curious as to what data you've gathered to come that that opinion.



e46/330/cp said:


> Demographics on the forums say the 'typical' 3-series owner is 18-24 years old, still in college, but with a high household income. They call themselves 'ballers' and 'players' and use the words 'sweet' and 'awesome' a lot...


 Most of the college students on this board seem to be paying for their cars themselves. :dunno:



e46/330/cp said:


> The 5-series is another story entirely. Average age is 47, and presumably someone who bought the car themself. From what I've seen, the 5-series caries none of the stigma of the 3, while retaining all of its best qualities, not to mention, if you want to drive fast, its flies much better 'under the radar' than say a two door 3-series. Plus its just a more distinguished car. Definitely an adults car. My 2 cents-


 Sounds to me that you'd be better off driving a Mercedes or a Cadillac.

Alex


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## Mark540iSport (Mar 5, 2004)

first5ny said:


> Mark,
> 
> Valet and BMW. Thats like governmental intelligence; it doesn't work. No one gets to drive this but me and my wife.


First5NY

Touche'!

I'd tend to agree with you, in fact it further supports the choice of the 5er. When I pull in I typically tell the young lad " why don't I just leave the car out front here" and proceed to do so myself!


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## Mark540iSport (Mar 5, 2004)

IllH said:


> Thanks a lot for the great responses. Everything that I've had to deal w/ in terms of bmw has been a great experience so far (including this forum) *that's why I'm so excited to pick one up already!*
> Another dilemma I'm having is whether to buy from a bmw dealership or an independent dealer. There is a huge price difference (enough for me to purchase an after market warranty and still have a few thousand left over), but I don't get the security of buying from an established dealer. I am still planning on taking the independent dealer car to a bmw dealership for inspection. Has anybody had any experience with this? Advice? Thanks!


I bought my 2001 540 this past January from a dealer only because of the specific car. It had just 23,000km (15,000m) and was the exact car I wanted - colour, options, etc.

Most late model used BMW's whether they are at a BMW dealer or independent dealer come from the same place. They're mostly off-lease vehicles that go back to BMW at the end of lease. BMW holds regular auctions (in Whitby I believe) on these vehicles and the BMW dealers bid on them the same as the independents. Dealers have higher margin expectations and will charge a premium when re-selling the car. Note also that BMW has so many of them (mostly 3's) that they created the BMW Experience Centre in Whitby which to the best of my knowledge is essentially a BMW owned dealership for used BMW's.

As long as the independent knows how to pick them and what to look for you probably can't go wrong. You'll need to include the price of an aftermarket warranty and compare it the the BMW Certified Series (any dealer can give you the literature) In my case I liked the BMW Certified Series warranty as it gave me 2 more years (2007) and up to 120,000km - given that the car only had 23,000 that's basically a 3 year 100,000km warranty which is better than if I had bought new. (new is 4 year, 80,000km but I always use up the km in 2-1/2 to 3 years).

My 2 Cents.

All the best.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Plaz said:


> I don't deny the 5er has more comfort, but I've driven 12 hours + in my 330 without getting "sore and cranky." Maybe you need to work on your seat adjustments? :dunno:


Do you have lumbar support? I think I would like my seats a lot more if I did.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

swchang said:


> Do you have lumbar support? I think I would like my seats a lot more if I did.


 Yes... maybe that's the difference. Though I usually keep it at its lowest setting. :dunno:


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

Plaz said:


> Yes... maybe that's the difference. Though I usually keep it at its lowest setting. :dunno:


All I know is I ain't getting another car without lumbar support, rear SAB, xenons, heated seats, navigation, and a moonroof. (I don't have lumbar nor rear SAB now, unfortunately. :bawling: ) Leather I can do without if it's low-quality leather like on the 3er...


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

I had a 330i for a loaner once. My impression was that it made my 540i feel like I was driving a barge. It simply handled much better. The 540i is faster but not by much. If I were in the market today I'd probably go with a 330, especially given the way gas prices are headed. The 540i can be a real gas pig unless you baby it (it has an EPA rating of 15/23).

I don't know about the E46 but I will say this: buy an E39 540i out of warranty at your own risk.


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## jun (Oct 10, 2002)

*I've had both..*

I used to have a modded 2001 330ci. It had 18 inch BBS RS-GT with Bridgstone S03 tires, tons of stereo stuff, Koni shock with HR springs, UUC exhaust, ECIS intake, UUC shifter and some other stuff I don't remember right now. My current car, a 2003 540a sport has 18 inch BBS RS-GT wheels(I love these wheels) with Goodyear F1, 245/40 & 275/35 tires, and aftermarket stereo stuff. If you are going to autocross your car, then get a 330. If it is going to be a daily driver, get a 540. If you like going around corners fast, then get a 330(although my 540 is not too bad). If you are going to do a lot of long distance driving, get a 540. It is just a more comfortable car eating up the miles fast. I just drove my car to Toronto from Maryland a couple fo weeks ago and I hardly notice that most of the times, I was doing 100. It also depends on your age bracket. Younger guys tend to get the e46. That is one of the reasons I sold my 330ci, I was always in the wrong crowd!


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## Soupcan325i (Sep 17, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Curious as to what data you've gathered to come that that opinion.
> Most of the college students on this board seem to be paying for their cars themselves. :dunno:


Yes, but it's a whole different world over at e46fanatics.com. A festering deviant subculture of entitled (many high school students), spoiled (recent quote "I'm going to make my parents buy a new body kit for my e46 since my brother tapped my bumper), reckless (new accident pics seem to be posted every day), irresponsible (constantly posting about how to weasel out of speeding tickets and high insurance premiums), and generally immature brats over there (and a few reasonable members, but they're in the minority).

Judging by the number of relatively new 3-series I see on my college campus, I doubt most of my peers are paying for them without some help (in full or in part). So, I can see where that stereotype (correct or not) comes from.


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## Lscman (Aug 5, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Curious as to what data you've gathered to come that that opinion.
> 
> Most of the college students on this board seem to be paying for their cars themselves. :dunno:
> Alex


Alex,

I have to ask similarly...

What data have you gathered that suggests college students on this board are paying for their own newer, $30K 330 series BMW's?? Are these claims actually by board members? If so, I think they are dishonest. Where do they obtain money for a premium car and school tuition? Are you talking about a handful of folks on full scholarships? Do these programs include a BMW upgrade & about $3K for insurance and fuel per year?

I can not afford a newer BMW, yet I have a full-time job with 6 figure income.

When I went to college, my car was worth $500 and I scraped up $10 per week for a couple pitchers of beer on Friday eve.

The vast majority of college kids under 25 yo (who own a 330) are draining daddy's wallet.


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## Ohmess (May 29, 2003)

*Stigma*

There seems to be a lot of stuff in this thread about the impression created by the car you drive. I thought about this before I bought my 540i6, and decided I don't give a ****e if people judge me based on my car. Yes, there are people who buy BMW for status or to compensate for some shortcoming or whatever, and there are people who think anyone who buys a BMW is an azzhole, but I wasn't going to get into any of this crap. BMWs are great cars to drive. Buy what you want.


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## Sands (Apr 7, 2004)

IllH said:


> Thanks a lot for the great responses. Everything that I've had to deal w/ in terms of bmw has been a great experience so far (including this forum) *that's why I'm so excited to pick one up already!*
> Another dilemma I'm having is whether to buy from a bmw dealership or an independent dealer. There is a huge price difference (enough for me to purchase an after market warranty and still have a few thousand left over), but I don't get the security of buying from an established dealer. I am still planning on taking the independent dealer car to a bmw dealership for inspection. Has anybody had any experience with this? Advice? Thanks!


OK, back on topic.... 

One thing to watch for is higher milage off lease car. Especially with an auto transmision. the lifetime oil fill is a marketing thing, not an engineering decision. Lease cars also tend to get the absolute minimun of maintenance on them. An autobox without regular fluid changes will tend to die at 150k miles or so. With changes, it should make it to 200k+. On the manuals, the #2 syncro will tend to go bad if you don't do regular changes with a high quality synthetic at higher mileage. Redline D4ATF also makes for a smoother cold weather shifting.

Really depends on how long you want to keep the car... But if you buy an auto at 100k that has never had a tranny oil change - don't, you will loosen up dirt and debris that will hasten a failure. But then you can drop a manual box in, the way BMWs are meant to be. 

ideally the tranny oil should be changed at 2500 miles initially, then every 30k after that. More if you autoX, track it or live in a hot/dusty location (southwest US, etc.)


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