# X-post: Lemon Law, or keep waiting?



## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*X-post: Lemon Law, or keep waiting? (VERY Long)*

This is what I just posted in the Vatken's Heroes Forum, but I'd like your inputs as well.

Thx.

Just looking for some guidance from the board members. My "success rate" with BMW is poor: I've had 2 lemons out of 3 new BMW's since 2000. First "lemon experience" went well--so well that I bought two more. The last one is another problem child . . . .

I purchased a well-equipped '03 325i (via ED) for my mother in Florida. It's sitting at less than 9k miles, and it's been in the shop seven or eight times. It's left her stranded on the side of the road twice, and had to be towed in three times. It's been out of service for nearly 40 days (and they "lost it" once and told my mom to "Call the police--it's been stolen"). Thus far Vista BMW (FL) has replaced:

Fuel Pump (sender units?)
2 Fuel Filters
Mass Air Flow Sensor
Windshield (auto wiper function was inop due to delamination of sensor from glass; crazy!)
6 Spark Plugs (twice)
6 Coils
Transmission software (harsh shifts when cold)

and some other parts as well--I can't remember them all.

Needless to say, she'll never, ever drive another BMW, or this one either. I don't blame her. I would like to think that maybe it's been fixed, but we'll never know. The car just sits in the garage while she awaits the arrival of her newly ordered car (hint: it's from Japan . . .), plus she has a spare car in the interim.

BMW NA's SoFlorida "aftersales market manager" has offered his version of a "good deal" to buy the car back, providing I purchase another E46. (Amazingly, he thinks that FULL MSRP is a "good deal.") This I don't really need since I have a great '02 330i w/19k miles sitting here in my garage in TX. (It's even reliable!) But, I might as well consider it since the Perf Package, while an outrageous money maker for BMW (add it up--it's probably $3k _pure profit_ with each Perf Pkg sold), should only cost me a few grand over the "trade assist" value of her car. (There are more details in the long letter below.)

Instead, the dealership and BMW NA have been playing an incredible game of what appears to be a case of "Ignore the customer and maybe he'll just go away." On Monday, March 22nd, I FedEx'd the letter below to Tom Purves, BMW NA's head man, along with the dealership's GSM (Vista BMW, FL), and my Customer Support rep at BMW NA. As of today, eight days after they've received their copies no one from BMW NA has bothered to contact me.

Very frustrating, especially since I used to be strong supporter and advocate for BMW. Now . . . well, let's not go there. (Interesing how one of my good friends who used to drive an E36 is likely to order the newly updated G35 in a few weeks.)

My next step is to start the formal Lemon Law process. The question is how much longer should I wait for BMW to respond, or should I start the process regardless? I've tried to take the high road, but BMW NA seems adamantly opposed to doing the right thing. Please review my letter below; your thoughts and comments appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark in Texas

Here's the long letter with all the details (it's straight from Word so the spacing might be off a bit):

March 21, 2004
Mr. Tom Purves, Chairman and CEO
BMW of North America, LLC
300 Chestnut Ridge Road
Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07675

Via: FedEx

Subject: Loss of a former "Customer For Life"

Dear Mr. Purves,

I am one of the few customers that has given your firm a "second chance" after a very poor initial experience. In early 2000 I ordered a 323Ci. While I greatly enjoyed driving it, the experience was sullied by its infuriating propensity to turn over, but not start, on a remarkably regular basis. Given that major problem, and a host of other smaller problems as well, I grew weary of the continued trouble. After approximately eight or nine repair visits without a successful repair, I called your call center and wrote to your office requesting assistance. After several weeks with no reply from BMW NA, I began the Lemon Law process. Literally days afterward I received a call from your local market manager here in Texas who promised that your field service engineer could fix the car. Furthermore, he stated that if the fix was unsuccessful, he would replace the car immediately. I agreed to give BMW one more chance to repair the car.
Approximately three weeks after that repair the car again failed to start. After several months we agreed to replace the car, going from a loaded 323Ci to a well-equipped 330i, with the agreement that I would cover any cost differential, although I had carefully ordered the new car to within a few hundred dollars of the old one. With the arrival of my '02 330i I was charged no "offset" or other fee, despite 11,000 miles of use on my 323Ci. While profoundly disappointed with my first BMW experience, I considered it a fluke-a "one-in-a-million" experience. Since then, I have been extremely pleased with the performance of my 330i. (As an aside, I later found out that your firm had sold the 323Ci to another buyer-who had problems with its failure to start beginning three days after he purchased it. You ended up buying it back a second time, and it sat abandoned at Moritz BMW for almost two years. A few days ago I believe it was finally transferred elsewhere for use as a training vehicle in your STEP program. See enclosed photos taken earlier this month.)
Despite my initial experience, I regularly recommended your cars to friends and family members. In fact, I even purchased a 325i for my mother as a gift. Unfortunately, that purchase has turned out to be a disaster. At 65 years old, her car's reliability is a critical concern-and this car has failed her repeatedly. I have enclosed extensive documentation on her experiences. Sadly, it gets worse. Given the astonishing treatment we have received in the past few weeks I ask two favors of you. First, please review the enclosed letter dated December 19th, and the "'Poster Child' for Problem Cars" Talking Points summary created for my March 8th meeting with Mr. Don Feiner, your Aftersales Market Manager. The second favor I'll address later.
Mr. Feiner agreed that the car easily met the requirements for Florida's Lemon Law. Based on the current mileage of ~8,500, he calculated an "offset" for use of $2,188. However, based on a "win-win" scenario, he offered a credit of $32,000 for my mom's car (cutting the offset approximately in half) if I were to purchase another BMW. Such a limited offer surprised me given the car's history, my mother's shameful treatment, and my previous familiarity with a BMW buy back, but I agreed nonetheless.
Of course, the second half of the equation is the cost of the new car. Since my mother wishes to never see Vista BMW again, nor will she ever again drive one of your cars, I would purchase the replacement car for my own use. Frankly, this isn't something I really need to do as I would then have to sell my '02 330i, and the changes from the '02 to an '04 330i are minute at best. Regardless, I priced out an '04 330i equipped as I would like. The Euro-Delivery invoice was a grand total of $35,550, to which we would add some token consideration for Vista's "trouble" in placing the order. The first offer from Vista and BMW NA was just under $40,000. Originally, I was told that this was what Mr. Feiner had told Vista to charge me as "part of our agreement." Negotiations have continued on a sporadic basis to the point that the latest offer was $37,550, or two thousand over ED invoice.
Mr. Michael Elkisch, your customer service representative, called on Thursday asking what my plans were. I advised him that a replacement vehicle priced at $2,000 over invoice was an insult when there are multiple dealers around the country selling E46's for $1,000 over ED invoice, and that this lemon 325i was sold for $1,200 over invoice. Apparently unaware of what pricing is like in the real world, he advised me that I was receiving a "good deal." I told him that I would call him back later after I had looked at the numbers more carefully. I have done so and the results indicate this letter to you is in order. 
As presented, I have two options:
1. Florida Lemon Law (Full refund, less "offset" calculation, plus the amount of any equipment added)
32,791.79 (Original Purchase Price)
- 2,188.00 (Mileage offset for use of '03 325i Lemon)
+ 607.70 (Equipment added-the BMW UGDO and Alarm System; "best guess" receipts enclosed)
$31,211.49 (Amount due from BMW NA to me for '03 325i Lemon)
2. BMW NA "Good Deal"
32,000 (Credit for '03 325i Lemon)
-37,550 ("Good Deal" price on the replacement '04 330i)
$5,550 (Amount I would owe to transfer into a replacement '04 330i)

Amusingly, were I to simply take pursue the Florida Lemon Law (Option 1), and then order an ED '04 330i "off the street" from any of the many dealers selling E46's for $1,000 over ED invoice, the numbers would work as follows:
31,211.49 (Amount due from BMW NA for '03 325i Lemon)
-36,550 Real World cost of '04 330i (based on the commonly available price of $1,000 over ED invoice, equipped as previously specified)
$5,338.51 amount I would owe to transfer into a replacement '04 330i
Thus, the "Good Deal" I am being offered by BMW NA is as follows:
1. For the hours my mother has spent waiting for a tow truck on three separate occasions, plus;
2. The full 39 days without use of her car, plus;
3. The hassles of going back and forth to Vista BMW eight times in less than 9,000 miles, plus;
4. The complete aggravation of having a new car she can't trust to not leave her stranded, plus;
5. The aggravation (and financial loss) I'll have selling my '02 330i with only 18,000 miles;
are worth a NEGATIVE $211.49. That's correct, in light of everything we've endured to date, I am to pay you $211.49 for the privilege of getting a "good deal" from BMW NA and Vista BMW.
When I started this process I stated the following in my December 19th letter:
I hope and expect that a company of BMW's stature will agree to resolve this matter at the lowest level, especially in light of the absurd repair saga we have been forced to endure.
That has not occurred. On the contrary, my recent conversations with your Mr. Elkisch and Mr. Feiner have only increased my frustration; I respectfully request to not speak with them again. (Also, since that letter was written we've had to return the car for repair again with the engine running so poorly as to limit the car's maximum speed to less than 50 mph. Now, just a few dozen miles after the "final repair attempt," the steering wheel is making an intermittent creaking sound when the car is hot.) 
I am sure you will agree that the offer I have received is absurd. Hence, my second favor: Your office can fix this problem with a phone call. Please do so. Specifically, I feel that the buy back terms I was offered three years ago are even more appropriate here, especially since my mother's car has only 8,500 miles while my 323Ci had 11,000. I realize the cars in question have a difference of $3,500 in their respective invoices; I am willing to pay that difference. Despite Mr. Feiner's comments about their insignificant cost, I would expect that the BMW alarm and UGDO would be either transferred or removed from my mother's 325i. (I'll absorb the depreciation loss on my '02 330i.) Otherwise, I will have no choice but to pursue a Florida Lemon Law solution.
Please contact me if you would like any additional information. Thank you for your assistance in correcting what has become an outrageous situation.

Sincerely,

Mark Peters
cc: Mr. Don Feiner, BMW NA
Mr. Michael Elkisch, BMW NA
Mr. Arthur Dicce, Vista BMW
encl: previous correspondence
multiple 2003 325i service receipts
Florida 325i Title
March 8, 2004 Talking Paper
'04 330i Replacement Vehicle Spec Sheet/Order


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## kyyuan (Jul 14, 2002)

Sorry to hear your experience. I don't know what to say :dunno: 

BMWNA/dealer really has no excuse. Poor customer service seems to be a corporate culture at BMW and its dealers (of course, there are exceptions). Good luck.

Ken


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## 'Cane (Jun 16, 2003)

Hey! I work at Vista.


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## PilotKurt (Mar 31, 2004)

Bummer. I'm a little concerned because I'm about to get my first BMW through ED in May. I thought BMW had great customer service. I hope I don't have the same problems.


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## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

Sorry to hear about your mom's problems, but IMHO, I don't believe the issues you mentioned amount to a breach of the Magnusson-Moss Act. The criteria are usually that the car be in for the same problem at least 3 times, and for a problem which significantly reduces the value of the car. :dunno:


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

Raffi said:


> Sorry to hear about your mom's problems, but IMHO, I don't believe the issues you mentioned amount to a breach of the Magnusson-Moss Act. The criteria are usually that the car be in for the same problem at least 3 times, and for a problem which significantly reduces the value of the car. :dunno:


Uhm, I guess I wasn't clear?

This fully falls into the Lemon Law criteria under the FL statutes, and the zone aftersales market manager fully concured. First, the car has been out of service for well over the required number of days. Second, the repeat problem (four or five times, at least) has been the SES light (service engine soon) which illuminates after the engine fails to run correctly--very dangerous and an NHTSA defect report from me is overdue. Third, it _still_ has another problem with the squeeking steering wheel. If manufacturers would be responsible and sincere, we wouldn't have to have lemon laws on the books. But they're not so we do. What a waste.

By the way, many (perhaps all?) "Bremi" ignition coils are probably bad. This is a probably a ticking time bomb for many recent BMW's. See your dealer and ask for SI B 12 08 03, dated November '03. E46's, Z4's, X5's, E39's and M3's--the S54 engine (and all other BMW's with the 2.5 and 3.0 engine) from Sept of '02 production through July of '03 are probably affected. There is not a recall, yet, because BMW probably wants to emulate VW's atrocious example with their coil failures, but I'm just speculating . . . . Maybe someone has to be killed in an accident first? (Gotta love BMW's attitude toward customer service.)


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## epc (Dec 24, 2001)

pylt said:


> Uhm, I guess I wasn't clear?


To be honest, I thought your letter to BMW NA was too verbose and used so many melodramatic adjectives that I felt like I was reading a novel rather than a business correspondence. For sure Tom Purves would not have had the time to read through it personally. Even if an assistant were to come up with an executive summary, I imagined it'd be a difficult and time-consuming task to wade through the long prose.


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## zilber (Jan 31, 2004)

I think that you should start the Lemon law process. Here is the web site http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html

Also, call BMW NA and talk to someone. Have them start a case number or something like that. I would definitely tell the dealer of your intentions. Also, if you have a friend who is a lawyer, that would help out a lot, especially if you could visit the dealer with him/her. Good luck.


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## rwg (May 10, 2002)

Start the process. The process will get BMW's attention and they will probably take care of the situation in a very professional manner once it has started.

Raffi, lemon laws are state law driven in some states I think. Regardless, there is a "days out of service" eligibility feature in California, too.


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*Thanks.*



zilber said:


> I think that you should start the Lemon law process. Here is the web site http://www.800helpfla.com/lemonlaw.html
> 
> Also, call BMW NA and talk to someone. Have them start a case number or something like that. I would definitely tell the dealer of your intentions. Also, if you have a friend who is a lawyer, that would help out a lot, especially if you could visit the dealer with him/her. Good luck.


Well, I'm sure I've already got a case number since I've been talking to them since early January. They've agreed we have a lemon, and it's fully qualified under FL law to be purchased back. We're stalled at what they think is a good deal is actually me paying them a $211.49 premium for all our trouble. Rather insulting.

Oddly, Vista BMW seems remarkably uninvolved--perhaps they think that it doesn't have anything to do with them? This despite the fact that IF their techs had properly diagnosed the problem in the first place over a year ago (say, during any one of the 8 service visits?) we wouldn't be here now. Go figure . . . .

I think I'll give them a few more days, if that, and then I'll be chating with the lawyers. So frustrating.

p.s. Excellent link, btw! Thanks.


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*Thanks for your comments*



epc said:


> To be honest, I thought your letter to BMW NA was too verbose and used so many melodramatic adjectives that I felt like I was reading a novel rather than a business correspondence. For sure Tom Purves would not have had the time to read through it personally. Even if an assistant were to come up with an executive summary, I imagined it'd be a difficult and time-consuming task to wade through the long prose.


You're probably right. It takes many hours to write this stuff, and much of it is done in the wee hours. Better editing on my part would have made it more professional but my frustration level was, and remains, very high. So I just sent it and it is quite a saga.

I doubt that Tom reads his mail--his office staff exists to deflect these letters, and Lord knows, they're probably getting a lot of them these days. Someone must have called Germany too--they just announced last week that they're hiring another 500 engineers to address "quality concerns." Too late for me, unfortunately.


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*Okay, then . . .*



330Cane said:


> Hey! I work at Vista.


Since you work there, would you please print out this thread in a few days and drop in the owner's lap?

Like I've written earlier, if VISTA BMW's TECHNICIANS had properly fixed this car the first time, or even the second or third time, we wouldn't be here now. Instead, it took the BMW Zone Technician to look up the applicable SI B, and fix the car. Can't your techs work a computer?

I think we've had 8 or 9 visits in less than 9k miles. Isn't that a bit much? And now the steering wheel squeeks.

What if it was YOUR mom's car that had left her stranded all these times?

Thanks for your help with this problem.


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## Regina (Apr 9, 2004)

*Pathetic customer service*

There is no excuse for this lack of customer service with any new car, let alone a "quality" vehicle like a BMW. All that wonderful German engineering has little value when your mom is stranded on the side of the road. Again.


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## brewthunda (May 15, 2003)

pylt said:


> Dear Mr. Purves,
> 
> I am one of the few customers . . . . .
> 
> ...


Holy cow that's a long letter. It's also unreadable. You talk about at least 4 different vehicles. After a careful read, it sounds like you just want BMWNA to intervene to cut $1000 of the price of a new car. If I was BMWNA I would probably toss the letter into the crazy pile.

Just take the money and walk away.

You want to contact a lawyer? Over a $211 perceived harm? It's gonna cost you more than that for a lawyer to write a coherent letter.

Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but I can't see how this is worth the aggravation.


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*IT'S NOT $211.49!--IT'S $2,000 (Thousand)@%#@^**



brewthunda said:


> Holy cow that's a long letter. It's also unreadable. You talk about at least 4 different vehicles. After a careful read, it sounds like you just want BMWNA to intervene to cut $1000 of the price of a new car. If I was BMWNA I would probably toss the letter into the crazy pile.
> 
> Just take the money and walk away.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your "careful read." You have misunderstood the problem--perhaps that's what's occured (do you work at BMW NA?).

Apparently I was not as clear as I need to be. IT'S NOT A $211.49 "perceived harm." It's $2,000 (TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS). In other words, three years ago I was given an "Invoice to Invoice" replacement, despite my '00 323Ci having a full 11,000 miles. "Invoice to Invoice" this time is around $3,500, AND I'M BEING ASKED TO PAY $5,500!

By the way, that $5,500 over includes a $211.49 OVERCHARGE. In other words, it's $211.49 over what I would get if I did the full Florida Lemon Law, walked away and bought a 330i "off the street." Get it? In other words, BMW's "Goodwill Offer" for all our trouble is a NEGATIVE $211.49. Can I be more clear?

I guess something was lost in the translation from Word to this forum.

Regardless, thanks for your input. It, and others, have helped me write a more consise letter to Dr. Panke (BWM AG).

Please re-post if you still are unclear as to what BMW's trying to do, or if there's anything that's still unclear.


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## anon (Jul 8, 2003)

i say take the money and go elsewhere...

but your options are pretty limited as far as RWD cars go... what about the G35?


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*BMW AG to the rescue?*

A quick update on this problem.

The 23rd of April will be the one month anniversay since BMW NA received my FedEx package; as of today (April 17th) no reply of any kind.

Out of curiosity I sent a somewhat similar package to BMW AG (via email and FedEx), along with some summary materials, asking for their help.

They at least emailed back asking for more info.

While tepting, I'll hold off going here:

http://www.floridalemon.com

for a while yet. I'll keep you posted, but they're really trying my patience.

In case you need a short summary, here's a one-page letter I sent to my "client advisor" (aka "salesman") who advised us that he'd "be there for us" if we ever needed help. (I guess he must be on vacation . . . .)

April 9, 2004

Mr. Burton Levine, Client Advisor
Vista BMW
4401 West Sample Road
Coconut Creek, FL 33073

Via: USPS

Subject: My mom's 2003 325i

Dear Burton,

I'm writing to ask for your help. This huge package details the continuing problems we're having with BMW NA and with Vista BMW. I know this isn't your problem and that you'd probably prefer to avoid reading the entire package. I'll summarize it on one page (for details please see the package):

1. My mom's car has been a terrible example of BMW's quality. It's left her stranded twice and had to be towed in three times in less than 9,000 miles, among many other problems it has had.

2. As you know from when we ordered this car in 2002, my old '00 323Ci was a terrible lemon as well. BMW's Aftersales Market Manager in Texas turned me into a "customer for life" because he apologized and made me a Goodwill offer for all the hassles I'd endured: a direct "Invoice to Invoice" deal on another BMW. Despite 11,000 miles on my 323Ci, I paid nothing to move into my reliable '02 330i-despite the '02 330i invoice being a few hundred dollars more. I was satisfied, and successfully encouraged others to buy BMW's as well.

3. Mr. Don Fiener fully agrees my mom's 325i meets the Florida "Lemon" criteria. His "goodwill offer" is an insult: "Invoice to Invoice" plus $2,000 ($5,500 total). The worst part? His "goodwill offer" is also $211.49 more than if I pursued a conventional Lemon Law settlement, and then bought the '04 330i at the "walk up/off the street" price. Do you see any "goodwill" there?

4. Internet comments make me wonder if someone at BMW thinks, "He's pulling a fast one," given my history of two (out of three) lemons. Hence, the March pictures of my old 323Ci. BMW bought it back twice. Also, a new SI B-was it at the root of my mom's problems? (We'll never know since the car sits in her garage unused. She's afraid to drive it and I don't blame her.)

We need your help. Please contact me with your comments and advice. Thanks.


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## pylt (Jun 10, 2003)

*UPDATE: Lemon Law or Keep Waiting?*

Well, despite my request to have someone other than Mr. Elkisch (BMW NA) contact me, he called back.

I guess the letter to Dr. Panke (BMW AG) helped clear things up.

In a nutshell, now they're saying my mom's car really isn't a lemon after all, despite 39 (yes, thirty-nine) days out of service and seven or eight service visits. Odd how this is 100% opposite what we were told in a face to face meeting.

LESSON LEARNED: TAPE YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH BMW's REPS. They are very, very likely to lie.

Here's something that I wrote in response to someone thinking that the hundreds of us posting on the board are cry babies:

Let me spell it out for you since I've had THREE E46's.

Most people when presented with a situation like I've endured simply trade the car and run away from BMW. After more than a decade as an Air Force pilot, plus many years in Boy Scouts and a life filled with public service work, I'm in the habit of helping people. I post here as part of that effort--and because I'm beyond mad with BMW.

Let me explain with a "Reader's Digest" version of my BMW history:

The first was an '00 coupe--first year production. It was a massive mistake on my part since no one should ever buy a first-year ANYTHING from BMW. BMW finally bought it back under excellent terms. I _WAS_ a "customer for life" since I assumed it'd bought one of the very rare lemons, plus the local (TX) zone rep treated me well in light of the chronic and frustrating "no-start" problems I'd had with the car . . . .

I assumed wrong.

The second car hasn't been perfect at all, but I've grown to love the sound of the 330i, & the performance is gratifying. If it wasn't for BMW NA and BMW AG's arrogance with the third car, I might even keep it.

But let me tell you about my last BMW.

The 3rd car is an '03 325i that I bought for my mom's birthday. Little did I know that I was about to enroll my mom into BMW's Product Test Team. In the shop for over 39 (yes, thirty-nine!) days in less than 9k miles (although BMW is now denying that; more later). It's left her stranded (had to be towed to VISTA BMW THREE times) so often that she's no longer driving it. BMW NA's Florida rep, Mr. Don Fiener, in a March '04 meeting, fully concurred that the car was a lemon under both the "days out of service" criteria, AND the "number of visits" criteria. Little did I know that one SHOULD ALWAYS TAPE YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH BMW NA. Why? Because as of a few weeks ago, BMW NA (Mr. Mike Elkisch, per Mr. Don Feiner) is now reporting that her car "isn't a lemon" after all. Odd, and a complete 100% reversal of their previous statement, and also not in alignment with Florida law. (I guess they'll my attorney to spell it out for them, at their expense, of course . . . )

So that's why so many of us lurk on the BMW boards--I (we) want to warn others BEFORE they buy into _their_ BMW mistake. I incorrectly assumed that this company would stand by its products, and do the right thing when things go wrong. I was very wrong.

BMW builds a surprisingly large number of crappy cars. And when their many, many junk cars are sold to customers, and those customers request some consideration or assistance, BMW simply cuts and runs. Basically, despite all the hassles we've endured, BMW NA's offer is "Take the Florida Lemon Law formula and deduct $2,300ish for your use." This is the same as, "We're not going to offer you a dime more than the law requires us to. Go to hell." Before these guys turned into the liars they are, I was going to buy another one to replace my old 330i. Then they offered me a deal that would have cost me MORE than if I'd just walked in off the street and bought one. Incredible, eh?

I plan on warning a few thousand folks over the next few years . . . it's my way of getting them back for treating my mother and me like dirt, for the lies, and, most importantly, for blowing me off for weeks at a time. Do I sound pissed? Probably, but here's the other part of the situation--I've recommended these POS cars to so many friends and family members. And I'm a friggin' idiot for doing so since they've already started to have problems with theirs too.

What can I say--these posts are a public service and I'm the kind of guy that trys to help people.

TAKE HOME MESSAGE:

STAY AWAY FROM BMW's JUNK CARS, especially if you're used to the level of reliability and quality found in, say, a ten- or fifteen-year old Toyota or Nissan.

And be sure not to recommend them to friends and family either; you'll probably never hear the end of it . . .

p.s. Here's a link to the SI B that my 65 year old mother help write. Oddly, BMW hasn't sent her a check yet for being part of the BMW Test Team. And this is a guess anyway. Her car has been driven less than 100 miles since the latest "fix" simply because she can't take the chance on being stranded again in her $35k POS. It sits in her garage until the lawsuit is filed/finished.

http://www.tmk.com/transient/120803.pdf


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## e46shift (Oct 12, 2002)

it would be great if you can get your local media involved, maybe they'll do something then :thumbup: :dunno: :thumbdwn:


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