# Alcohol Fuel Blends/Top Tier in BMW Vehicles



## BMW_tech (Sep 20, 2007)

Fuel blends containing a high percentage (above 10%) of alcohol, mainly ethanol, are becoming more commercially available. Customers inquire about the possibility of using alcohol fuels (e.g. E85) in BMW vehicles

Fuels containing up to and including 10% of ethanol or other oxygenates with up to 2.8% oxygen by weight, that is, 15% MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) or 3% methanol plus an equivalent amount of co-solvent, will not void the applicable warranties with respect to defects in materials or workmanship.

Although, usage of such alcohol fuel blends may result in drivability, starting, and stalling problems due to reduced volatility and lower energy content of the fuel. Those drivability problems may be especially evident under certain environmental conditions, such as: high or low ambient temperatures and high altitude.

Only specially adapted vehicles (FFV - Flexible Fuel Vehicles) can run on high alcohol fuel blends. BMW, for the various technical and environmental reasons explained below, does not offer FFV models.

Usage of E85, or any other high alcohol content blend (e.g. E30) in BMW vehicles, will cause various drivability complaints (cold start problems, stalling, reduced performance, poor fuel economy, etc.), may cause excessive emissions, and may cause irreversible damage to engine, emission control and fuel delivery systems due to incompatibility of materials with alcohols.

General Notes Regarding E85 Fuel.

E85 fuel contains 85% (by volume) of ethanol and 15% of gasoline. Ethanol can be produced chemically from ethylene or biologically from grains, agricultural wastes, or any organic material containing starch or sugar. In the US, ethanol is mainly produced from corn and is classified as a renewable fuel.

Similar to gasoline, ethanol contains hydrogen and carbon; with additional oxygen molecules build into its chemical chain. This chemical structure makes ethanol's burning process slightly cleaner compared to the gasoline (lower tailpipe emissions).

On the other hand, due to lower carbon content, ethanol provides 27% less energy (for identical volume) then gasoline, resulting in the reduced fuel economy of E85 vehicles (approximately 22% higher consumption). Increased fuel consumption requires the appropriately enlarged fuel tank capacities (usually 30% increase), and the specific DME calibrations for the E85 lower Stoichiometric air/fuel ratio (10 compared to 14.7 for gasoline engines).

E85 fuel volatility is typically lower then gasoline (RVP 6-10 psi, compared to 8-15 psi for gasoline). Lower fuel volatility will reduce vehicle evaporative emissions, but it may cause cold starting problems especially with lower ambient temperatures.

Under certain environmental conditions, mainly lower ambient temperatures, ethanol separates from gasoline/alcohol mixture and absorbs water. The ethanol absorbed water molecules are heavier then gasoline or ethanol, they remain at the bottom of fuel tank and when introduced into combustion process they tend to form an extremely lean mixture resulting in misfire, rough idle and cold starting problems.

Certain materials, commonly used with gasoline are totally incompatible with alcohols. When these materials come in contact with ethanol, they may dissolve in the fuel, which may damage engine components and may result in poor vehicle drivability.

Some metals (e.g. zinc, brass, lead, aluminum) become degraded by long exposure to ethanol fuel blends. Also, some nonmetallic materials used in automotive industry such as: natural rubber, polyurethane, cork gasket material, leather, polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polyamides, methyl-methacrylate plastics, and certain thermo & thermoset plastics degrade when in contact with fuel ethanol.

In order to safely and effectively operate a motor vehicle running on E85, the vehicle must be compatible with alcohol use. Some manufacturers have developed vehicles called FFV (Flexible Fuel Vehicle) that can operate on any blend of ethanol and gasoline (from 0% ethanol and 100% gasoline, up to 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline). Ethanol FFVs are similar to gasoline vehicles, with main differences in materials used in fuel management and delivery systems, and DME control module calibrations. In some cases, also E85 vehicles require special lubricating oils.

Aftermarket conversions of gasoline-powered vehicles to ethanol-fueled vehicles, although possible, are not recommended due to internal materials and DME software incompatibility, as well, as the high costs of conversion.

TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline in BMW Vehicles

Deposit-control additives have been required by the EPA in all gasoline from 1995; however, since the introduction of the lowest additive concentration (LAC) most gasoline manufacturers have actually reduced the concentration level of detergent additives by up to 50%.

Low content of cleaning additives results in an excessive accumulation of deposits on fuel injectors, the intake valves, the exhaust manifold or inside the combustion chamber. Due to deposits build-up, customers may experience various drivability problems (e.g. cold start problems, rough idle), increased emissions with Service Engine Soon light illumination, reduced engine performance and poor fuel economy.

In order to increase the level of detergent additives in gasoline, the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline requirements were approved by four automotive companies (BMW, GM, Honda and Toyota).

Usage of the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline will help keep engines cleaner, and will reduce deposits-related concerns.

A number of gasoline retailers have already met the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline requirements and are offering this product in all octane grades in all of their respective marketing areas. The current TOP TIER Gasoline retailers are: Chevron®; Texaco®; QuickTrip®; ConocoPhillips®; 76®; Shell®; Entec Stations®; MFA Oil Company®; Kwik Trip®/Kwik Star®; The Somerset Refinery, Inc.®; Aloha Petroleum®; Jiffy Mart®; Mahalo®; Trip-Par Oil Company®. All gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must conform to TOP TIER requirements on products advertised as such.

RECOMMENDATION
BMW recommends using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline of minimum octane rating of AKI 91 and with alcohol content of less then 10% by volume (or any other oxygenates with up to 2.8% of oxygen by weight). Only the exclusive usage of TOP TIER Gasoline provides the full benefit of reducing deposits build-up. BMW customers may find more information related to TOP TIER Gasoline on the official website www.toptiergas.com.

If the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is unavailable, we recommend BMW Group FUEL SYSTEM CLEANER PLUS (PN 82 14 0 413 341) be added to the gas tank. For optimum cleaning and deposits control, add a 20 fl. oz. bottle every 3,000 miles when refueling.

Fuel contamination related to a recent introduction of ethanol fuel blends. Ethanol is used as an octane booster, and replaces MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) in many fuel formulations.

High levels of water and other residue contaminants may cause damage to a fuel delivery system.

The introduction of ethanol to existing storage tank and distribution systems has acted to absorb the build-up of water and free residual contaminants accumulating over a period of time at these locations and permits them to be pumped into vehicles at the time of refueling.

Aside from the engine not running, early tests on vehicles with severe contamination reveal, for example, oxidation as the cause for fuel pump seizure on the E46 and a clogged fuel filter as the cause for a ruptured in-tank fuel line on the E65/66 N73 (760Li/i).

Combustion chamber deposit formation is a by-product of the gasoline burning process. Fuel injector and intake valve deposits may become less troublesome with the recently introduced Top Tier Detergent Gasoline deposit control standards, which are exceeding the detergent requirements imposed by the EPA since 1995.

However, vehicles that do not exclusively use a Top Tier Detergent Gasoline, or are regularly driven in severe service conditions, such as stop-and-go traffic, high ambient temperatures, and high altitude can experience performance problems caused by intake system and combustion chamber deposits.

The most common customer complaints may include:

FUEL INJECTORS

Deposits at the injector's tip can impact fuel flow, upsetting the air/fuel mixture ratio.

Symptoms: Hesitation or stumble during acceleration, even loss of power. Poor fuel efficiency. Increased emissions of HC and CO. "Service Engine Soon" light illumination due to intermittent misfire faults, or lean mixture adaptation values

INTAKE VALVES:

Deposits at the valves and on the intake manifold ports can absorb fuel during the warm-up phase, leaning out the air/fuel mixture ratio. Carbon build-up may disturb mixture flow at low throttle conditions/idle speeds.

Symptoms: Poor drivability, loss of power, unstable/rough idle, increased emissions of HC, CO and NOx. "Service Engine Soon" light illumination due to intermittent misfire faults.

COMBUSTION CHAMBER:

Combustion Chamber Deposit Interference, or CCDI, occurs when there is a contact between carbon deposits on the piston crown and cylinder head. The noise can be confused or misdiagnosed as ping, knock or other noises that could indicate a mechanical failure. CCDI occurs first as a cold start noise that can fade as the engine warms to operating temperature. The noise will reoccur at the next cold start. As deposits build, there is an increase in compression temperature that may cause pre-ignition detonations.

Symptoms: Knocking, pinging, run-on, poor acceleration, octane requirement increase, increased emissions of NOx, engine idle speed surges.

Depending on the manufacturer, fuels may contain various additives such as: oxidation and corrosion inhibitors, metal deactivators, emulsifiers, anti-icing agents & dyes, plus they are required to include some form of an intake system deposit control package. Unfortunately, not all fuels are created equal, and some additive packages are not effective enough to maintain integrity of the intake systems in high performance engines, or engines operating in severe environmental conditions. Even worse, the intake system deposit control additives in some fuels may actually contribute to the combustion chamber deposits accumulation, and to the problems associated with those deposits: knock, run-on and increased emissions of oxides of nitrogen.

RECOMMENDATION
BMW recommends using TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline of minimum octane rating of AKI 91 and with alcohol content of less then 10% by volume (or any other oxygenates with up to 2.8% of oxygen by weight). Only the exclusive usage of TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline provides the full benefit of reducing deposits formation.

If the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline is unavailable, we recommend BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus (PN 82 14 0 413 341) be added to the gas tank. For optimum cleaning and deposits control, add a 20 fl. oz. bottle every 3,000 miles when refueling.

Regular use of BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus can help address carbon deposits related symptoms listed above. By removing these deposits, an engine may experience restored power, performance and fuel efficiency, a smoother idle running, lower emissions, and reduced octane requirement.

BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus uses polyether amine TECHRON® based technology developed and patented by Chevron. BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus has proven to clean up deposits in fuel injectors, ports & intake valves and reduces the harmful effects of combustion chamber deposits. It helps restore performance lost due to deposit build-up.

Chevron and BMW have run an extensive "no harm" tests with polyether amine technology. When used as directed, it will not harm catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, or any other mechanical components of the engine, or fuel delivery system.

The effectiveness of the additive depends on its presence in the gasoline in large concentrations for short periods of time. One treatment is usually sufficient, but a second treatment (one 20 oz bottle per each, consecutive full tank of gas) may give additional benefits. To keep your fuel intake system clean, we recommend usage at every 3000 miles.

Additionally, vehicle's fuel sending units equipped with silver plated resistor card/contacts are especially vulnerable to attacks by elemental sulfur and/or hydrogen sulfide found in fuels. Adding BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus immediately upon noticing erratic fuel gauge behavior may, in many cases, restore proper performance due to the additive's ability to remove the harmful sulfur compounds from the sending unit's contact surface. Additionally, BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus can help protect the fuel gauge from future malfunctioning by coating all metal surfaces of the fuel system.


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## rgr887 (Feb 27, 2006)

THANKS FOR YOUR REPORT. I'm very impressed in its depth and
conclusions as to how safe ethanol gas is on our BMW's.
Personal experience; I'm the owner of a '08 5 series with the 2.8(6cy)under the hood. I'm at just 750 miles on the odometer...
Recently, I've filled up with Cumberland Farms -93 octane(w/10% ethanol) and have noticed the yellow triangle engine light jump on for several seconds, then disappear. What have I done? And should I stop using the 10% ethanol blend that is in the premium?


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## BMW_tech (Sep 20, 2007)

rgr887 said:


> THANKS FOR YOUR REPORT. I'm very impressed in its depth and
> conclusions as to how safe ethanol gas is on our BMW's.
> Personal experience; I'm the owner of a '08 5 series with the 2.8(6cy)under the hood. I'm at just 750 miles on the odometer...
> Recently, I've filled up with Cumberland Farms -93 octane(w/10% ethanol) and have noticed the yellow triangle engine light jump on for several seconds, then disappear. What have I done? And should I stop using the 10% ethanol blend that is in the premium?


I would suggest using lower octane,around 8 to 7 percent alcohol content.


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## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

Ethanol is a sham and it angers me greatly that local governments would subsidize or even enforce its usage.


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## 330ximd (Sep 20, 2005)

akhbhaat said:


> Ethanol is a sham and it angers me greatly that local governments would subsidize or even enforce its usage.


+1. Ethanol will increase inflation in the U.S., with no energy efficient properties.


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## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

330ximd said:


> +1. Ethanol will increase inflation in the U.S., with no energy efficient properties.


It's just another example of a representative government acting on behalf of a minority interest (i.e. the corn lobby) rather than the majority which it is supposed to support in theory. As I understand it, growing corn for fuel purposes is much more profitable than selling it in the supply-rich food market.

Of course, it doesn't appear that way because much of the American public has been convinced that Ethanol is a plausible solution to the country's foreign oil dependence and thus supports it.


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## brett8210 (Jun 5, 2007)

Is Exxon/Mobil also on that list? I thought they had an effective additive as well. If not, let me know and I will change my buying habits.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

rgr887 said:


> THANKS FOR YOUR REPORT. I'm very impressed in its depth and conclusions as to how safe ethanol gas is on our BMW's.


It is NOT his report. This member has been posting BMW bulletins without attribution (and in violation of copyright law) on this site. :dunno:


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

BMW_tech said:


> "Fuel blends containing a high percentage (above 10%) of alcohol, mainly ethanol, are becoming more commercially available. Customers inquire about the possibility of using alcohol fuels (e.g. E85) in BMW vehicles....
> 
> ....BMW Group Fuel System Cleaner Plus can help protect the fuel gauge from future malfunctioning by coating all metal surfaces of the fuel system."


Did you write this, or pull it from another source? If you pulled it, please credit the author, and provide a link to the source.

(I'm not the copyright police, but I write for a living and stealing work just isn't cool.)

- Mike


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Emission said:


> Did you write this, or pull it from another source? If you pulled it, please credit the author, and provide a link to the source.
> 
> (I'm not the copyright police, but I write for a living and stealing work just isn't cool.)
> 
> - Mike


Mike, see my post above yours where I explain the source the material is from.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

JSpira said:


> Mike, see my post above yours where I explain the source the material is from.


I read your post. I just want to hear it from the horse's mouth before we go bopping anyone on the head.

- Mike


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Emission said:


> I read your post. I just want to hear it from the horse's mouth before we go bopping anyone on the head.
> 
> - Mike


Ja, of course, sorry.

(Here is a link to someone who posted the same text and did credit BMW.)


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## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

Emission said:


> Did you write this, or pull it from another source? If you pulled it, please credit the author, and provide a link to the source.
> 
> (I'm not the copyright police, but I write for a living and stealing work just isn't cool.)
> 
> - Mike


+1

I'm sure I've seen this before; I think it's actually BMW's own literature.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

We are going to let this type of post fly - as long as the source and/or author is cited. :thumbup:

- Mike


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## 330ximd (Sep 20, 2005)

akhbhaat said:


> +1
> 
> I'm sure I've seen this before; I think it's actually BMW's own literature.


I remember reading that as well from BMW. Does the OP have an opinion on the post? I think one of the only reasons alot of the public likes e85 is b/c they were brainwashed into believing it is good for the country/environment, which is the opposite of what it actually is. Bush has put alot of time into promoting it, while sugar ethanol imported is much cheaper and more efficient, of course, cheaper if there were no corn ethanol subsidies...which taxpayers pay for...so everyone gets to pay for ethanol fuel, huzzahs.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

330ximd said:


> I remember reading that as well from BMW. Does the OP have an opinion on the post? I think one of the only reasons alot of the public likes e85 is b/c they were brainwashed into believing it is good for the country/environment, which is the opposite of what it actually is. Bush has put alot of time into promoting it, while sugar ethanol imported is much cheaper and more efficient, of course, cheaper if there were no corn ethanol subsidies...which taxpayers pay for...so everyone gets to pay for ethanol fuel, huzzahs.


The man speaks the truth. E85 is evil. :thumbup:

(Climbs down off his soapbox...)


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## tbal69 (Feb 14, 2007)

crap, i have that increased emissions warning and engine light! should i add cleaner to few tanks see how that goes. I always use shell 92.. maybe thats why its gon to ****s?


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## TambourineMan (Jul 25, 2007)

Regarding Exxon, I wrote to them (as there are only a few TopTier gas stations conveniently close by to me) and here is the reply (properly attributed  :

Dear Mr. XXXXXX,

ExxonMobil fuels contain additive levels equal to or higher than required
by the Top Tier program. While ExxonMobil would expect to receive Top Tier
certification if it applied for the certification, as a practice, we do not comment on
future business decisions. We are concerned about the unilateral approach of the program
sponsors, and do not believe that the program is in the best interest of the motoring
public.
ExxonMobil is concerned that the Top Tier program may actually increase
customer confusion regarding product quality.

Thank you for contacting ExxonMobil.

Thomas Bourguignon
Exxon Mobil Corporation

I didn't bother to write back about the BS of how a standard creates "consumer confusion."

Anyway, does anyone know how the additives get into the gas - that is where and how it is done? I have read in posts that people think one tanker stops at a Shell station to refill their tanks and then goes down the road to a discount gas station and fills up theirs with the same gas.

Is the additive added by the gas station itself rather than at the refinery or tank farm? If by the gas station how do they get a uniform amount in the gas?


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## Starab (Feb 17, 2007)

330ximd said:


> +1. Ethanol will increase inflation in the U.S., with no energy efficient properties.


Agree and U C now the inflaion (fuel, grocery, transportation)
There are research reports showing not much change in environment as expected/promised with ethanol

The best thing for Car/ Minivan/SUV is HP 200-250 and 
Hybrid( Gas / Diesel supplemented with Electric, Gas, Battery)
Of course with no Ethanol

Some have cars from 90's or early and their engines are not based using ethanol


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## 2wheels2four (Dec 23, 2007)

We're stuck with permanent 10% ethanol gasoline now in NW Oregon. We used to be stuck with it only in the winter months. Another group of counties to the south will be required to pump it beginning tomorrow (4/15), and the remainder of counties in the southernmost part of Western Oregon on 9/15. Cleaner air, dontcha know!

So far no running issues with 10% Top-Tier Premium in my '08 335i, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## bten (Sep 22, 2002)

2wheels2four said:


> So far no running issues with 10% Top-Tier Premium in my '08 335i, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


Watch your gas mileage, it will drop about 10%!


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## mjpmia (Jun 23, 2008)

I own a 2005 325i with 55K miles (just off warranty) and am having all kinds of problems with my car. The latest issue I have is that two weeks ago Wednesday my car did not start. The battery, starter, alternator all seemed fine. I had gas in the tank; the car turned over, but just would not start. After having it towed into the local dealership, and waiting five days for a diagnosis, they told me my fuel pump had gone bad. They told me that the fuel pump went bad and that caused my Harness Line to go bad and a fuel circuit to blow. Total repairs cost were $1486. They gave no explanation other than to tell me parts go bad and that is unfortunate that I did not purchase the extended warranty. I could not argue whether the parts were all bad or if the repairs were necessary, but with no reason to doubt them, I authorized the repairs. 

I then drove the car home less than five miles away from the dealership. The next morning I go out to the car to find it does not start, again. Same problem as before, only this time the car eventually started after a few minutes. I drove to work and home again that night (again the car did not start at first, but eventually started). The following morning, less than 36 hours and 40 miles since I had the $1500 repairs completed, my car would not start. This time, it is not starting. After another tow back to the local dealership and waiting two days, I get the diagnosis, ***8220;Too much Alcohol in my Fuel!***8221; It appears the memo above has become the basis to state to BMW owners that gas-ethanol blend sold by virtually every gas company in the world causes damage to BMW parts.

According to this dealership, the high level of alcohol in the gas in south Florida is causing the corrosion of parts within the fuel system; to include the fuel tank, fuel line and fuel pump. They explained that all would need to be replaced at a charge to me without warranty at over $5000. The car has 55K miles. I owe $13K. I have already $3000 in repairs (including the $1500 from last week) in the last year for parts that have come off warranty. Now, they want me to pay $5000 to replace the entire fuel system. Oh, there is more, the dealership will not credit me for the parts and labor from last week or for the repairs they say they need to make to fix the issue correctly this time.

Not being satisfied with their explanation and working for a company that does truck repairs, I did a little research to understand how gasohol could destroy fuel system and related parts. Needless to say, there is nothing I can find any where to suggest that high levels of alcohol mixed with gasoline would cause the problems that they are suggesting are being cause by gas-ethanol mix. Furthermore, to suggest that it takes less than 36 hours and 40 miles of driving to cause the fuel pump to deteriorate from the corrosive effects of alcohol is silly and ignorant. Even if alcohol could cause corrosion, there is no way possible it could do it in that short amount of time and use.

Now, I am really confused as to what exactly they think is happening to my car. If the gas-alcohol mix is causing the damage they suggest, why are there not millions of cars on the side of the road? Why is there not a huge uproar against the use of ethanol blends? Where are the law suits against the gas companies for the untold damage they are causing to vehicles that cannot process the gas-ethanol mix as BMW is suggesting? Let's say for sake of argument that this is just a BMW issue and there are a lot BMW***8217;s whose fuel systems are failing because of gas-ethanol mix, why has no one notified me prior to this failure? Why was I given this notice after my car failed twice on this issue and not when the memo was released? As I have no control of the ethanol content of gasoline sold in south Florida and since I am filling my car with state required and approved gas-ethanol mix, how is this issue not covered by BMW?

Clearly, I am not the only BMW driver who is forced by gas companies to fill up their tank with solely available state required and approved gas-ethanol blends. The number of gas stations and the amount of ethanol blended gasoline will only continue to rise as the price of oil increases. Clearly, I cannot go out of my way to find the few stations that sell non blended gasoline. I fill up with Premium unleaded. Outside of that what do they expect me to do? Furthermore,what will replacing fuel system parts do to prevent future damage they tell me I will continue to have as I fuel with blended gasoline? Is BMW stating that their cars cannot operate properly utilizing the fuel that is sold at gas station in America and that fuel system parts will corrode and fail if you use ethanol mixed gasoline?

I have yet to approve any repairs until I get a salient explanation as to what they think the alcohol blended gasoline is doing to which parts and what needs to replaced, repaired or done to fix my vehicle such that this does not occur again. I have a feeling I will be holding my breath a long time waiting for an answer.


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## BM2W (Aug 9, 2007)

re: The OP - I got more or less the same text handed out at the local dealership on BMW letterhead at a NM BMW CCA chapter sponsored tech session last Fall. This isn't anything new, but it is worth reminding folks about fuel quality issues.

Yeah, Top Tier gas cost a bit more, but it really isn't a big deal compared to the downside costs of diagnosing and fixing fuel-related bummers caused by cheap gas from dubious sourses in teh long run. IMO, it kinda sucks, but it's a pay me [a little] now, or pay me [a lot more] later. Your choice, still sucks. (perhaps we should be selling corn to Saudi @$70/bushel rather than $7 . . .)

The alpha tech at the CCA session suggested using middle grade gas, as there is more gas/less alcohol than high grade, though there _may be_ a minor performance penalty, the lack of engine fouling is a good thing (YMMV).

The current Roundel had a good letter in the Tech Talk section on additives that help if Top Tier isn't easily available in your area, e.g. Techron, Ventilo Sauber. BG44K, etc. I found BG44K on eBay for $9/can in quantities of 4.

Bottom line: highly refined, high perfomrance cars cost more to buy/run/maintain, but you knew that going in, right?


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

OP, why not take a sample of the fuel which was in your car and have it analyzed? You could end up knowing a heck of a lot more than you do now! 
I don't know about Florida, but here in NH all pumps have to state what percentage of alcohol is in the gas. The most on ANY pump says "up to 10%". Note the use of "_up to_"; could be only 5% or even none.


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## BM2W (Aug 9, 2007)

Good point DSX, my local dealer does do fuel testing when the situation warrants. They do it at no charge, but it kills any arguements about what's causing the problen, not free in the final analysis, eh?


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

How to find out the level of ethanol used in the local gas station? 

I don't think the gas stations are required to post such info, except maybe for E85.

I hope BMW spend more $ to lobby against this. (MB on the other hand already offers E85 compatible vehicles.)


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

Oh I just find out from the top tier gas website: http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

1.3.1.2 Base Fuel. The base fuel shall conform to ASTM D 4814 and shall contain commercial fuel grade ethanol conforming to ASTM D 4806. All gasoline blend stocks used to formulate the base fuel shall be representative of normal U.S. refinery operations and shall be derived from conversion units downstream of distillation. Butanes and pentanes are allowed for vapor pressure adjustment. The use of chemical streams is prohibited. The base fuel shall have the following specific properties after the addition of ethanol:

1. Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the *actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent*.


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## TambourineMan (Jul 25, 2007)

Just curious. How many of you pi$$ing and moaning about this are voting for Barak?

(If you are not concerned about ethanol or if you are concerned about having enough gas to operate your car, no need to reply.)


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## Starab (Feb 17, 2007)

BMW_tech said:


> A) In the US, ethanol is mainly produced from corn and is classified as a renewable fuel. Ethanol is used as an octane booster, and replaces MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) in many fuel formulations.
> 
> B) Ethanol has acted to absorb the build-up of water and free residual contaminants accumulating over a period of time at these locations and permits them to be pumped into vehicles at the time of refueling.
> 
> ...


My THOUGHTS:

A and 1) > we have no choice but to use Ethanol 8-10% in many states and it is an octane booster. ? we can use top-tier Regular/ Mid Grade gas that has ethanol already and might have increased octane rating from ethanol added?. Some BMW manuals say gas with minimum octane 87 can be used.

B and 2) > we can use BMW Group or Polyether amine TECHRON Fuel System Cleaner Plus / ® for optimum cleaning and deposits control plus some good brand fuel system cleanser that absorbs/removes water build up from ethanol use.


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## SamReyes91 (Nov 18, 2011)

I know this post is old but I'm fairly new to the forum and just came across it. Has anyone tried the hydrogen fuel cell system in their car (meaning BMW's) I've tried it on Chrysler's and Ford's but I'm not to quick to put one in the E30. Just wanted to see if maybe someone had tried or if anyone had any thoughts on its effectiveness. In my experience with it its ok i mean sure you do save fuel and your motor will run smoother and cooler but as far as the claims of 60mpg or 70 are a little far fetched most i saw was 51 and that was in one trip alone as soon as i stopped i was never able to duplicate those kinds of gains. This also depends on your car and if your willing to spend the 70 to 100 dollars FOR A GOOD SYSTEM! Anyway ill leave it with that. 
again any thoughts on this or any questions i no expert ill get that out now, but i do know about most HHO fuel cells. In any case ill create a thread on this later if some interested should arise.

-Sam


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