# car audio upgrade help



## heathert (Aug 20, 2005)

does anyone know what would work best for a 2003 325ci convert with the basic bmw business radio,,,it stinks,,,I want to upgrade not sure what to...does anyone have any ideas


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## icky (Sep 15, 2004)

i would recommend going to your local car audio place and look what kind of deals they have on subs/amps+install. id say start with a sub/amp and go from there. :dunno:


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## heathert (Aug 20, 2005)

*Thanks*

Thanks I was thinking about doing that but figured someone might have an idea, thanks for replying...


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

icky said:


> i would recommend going to your local car audio place and look what kind of deals they have on subs/amps+install. id say start with a sub/amp and go from there. :dunno:


speakers will also improve the sound; head unit itself can stay.


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

More amplifier power is the logical place to start....it will improve the sound of all the other components. After the amp upgrade, you can make a better evaluation of the system, and determine where you want to go from there.

Regards,
Bob


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Generally you should upgrade your head unit, then amp, and speakers last. Speakers tend to sound better with more power going through them.


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## cambie (Mar 13, 2005)

how easy is it to replace the stock amp with a good one in a 2005 325i? i've got nav and assist.


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

Well, in reading your replies to this question, it seems that you've been given every direction to go that's possible. 

I'm putting in my two cents too. As a 18-year car audio professional in product marketing, retail, and product development, I've had a lot of exposure to this question.

1) You CAN use your OEM head unit, and you will struggle to find a replacement for it that will look as good in your car. Most CD player head units nowadays are aimed at a 19-year-old driving a Civic with a coffee can for a muffler. The only one I think you might find that can look good is a Nakamichi CD400.

2) The bigger struggle is finding a shop that is skilled at USING the BMW original radio. I don't know where you are geographically, but I know a lot of people across the US, and I might be able to give you a tip on a shop that is knowledgable about this.

3) In my opinion, you want to get new amplification and new speakers. 

The better speakers will not sound good without improved amplification, and the more affordable and more efficient speakers that will sound better without a new amplifier, will sound worse WITH a better amplfier. 

There are two questions you should answer first:

1) What is my biggest problem with the sound? Is it the lack of bass, or the overall sound, or only at higher volumes?

2) What is the budget that I could feel good about spending for really good results? Are you looking to spend $200 or $1000? Would you spend $1500 if you felt it was for good gear and skilled installation, or are you convinced that that's insanity?

If you can answer those two questions, you can get some much more focused recommendations.


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

cambie said:


> how easy is it to replace the stock amp with a good one in a 2005 325i? i've got nav and assist.


Easy, it's not. Doable for a skilled installation shop who's knowledgable, sure. Where are you geographically?


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

Heathert, since I've looked at YOUR sig and you're in N.H, I would suggest you call Sound In Motion in the Boston area. www.sound-in-motion.com. Worth the drive.


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## tromar1 (May 6, 2005)

el_duderino said:


> Well, in reading your replies to this question, it seems that you've been given every direction to go that's possible.
> 
> I'm putting in my two cents too. As a 18-year car audio professional in product marketing, retail, and product development, I've had a lot of exposure to this question.
> 
> ...


Man...I really really wished you lived beside me.

Your advice...based on the consultive questions you ask the poster tells me that your response is on point. So...i'll answer your two (2) questions in the hopes that i'll get the direction I've been looking for.

1. Sound: My biggest problem with my current sound is at higher volume. There is considerable distortion...I'm not trying to blow the roof off, quite the contrary. Nonetheless, when the windows are down and i'm travelling at a high speed I can hardly appreciate the music.

2. Cost: [sigh] After spending an arm and a leg recently {see my other post/pics & sig} on video upgrades, I would really like to keep the cost down. Let me preface by saying "i'm not qualified to tell what would work best." However, I don't need much power, so a small amp should suffice. Possible only one sub. Maybe replace the two front speakers...The products don't have to be top of the line.

I have been using "Sound of Tri-State" in Claymont, DE., as my installers. I live in S. Jersey and work in DE. The guys know me based on all the work they have done so far. I can't say I totally trust their skill level, but you pay for what you get. I don't even know if my new headunit is using the existing amp.

Finally, Mr. El Duderino...your feedback would be very appreciated. Thanks in advance.


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## kylechan (Jul 23, 2005)

el_duderino said:


> Easy, it's not. Doable for a skilled installation shop who's knowledgable, sure. Where are you geographically?


Hi, just send you a PM.


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

tromar1 said:


> Man...I really really wished you lived beside me.
> 
> Your advice...based on the consultive questions you ask the poster tells me that your response is on point. So...i'll answer your two (2) questions in the hopes that i'll get the direction I've been looking for.
> 
> ...


Happy to help. Thanks for the kind words. I speak no ill to the guys you are working with now, but if you're in South Jersey, you owe it to yourself to visit www.sound-in-motion.com. Ron is a good guy and a great installer, and has some great gear too (and I believe he has a BMW : ). Check these BMW pics out: http://www.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315868

As far as the distortion goes, that is partly an amplifier issue, and partly a speaker issue, IMO.

I'm not sure which of your cars you're focusing on, but I will say this: Using a subwoofer in the system properly will lower your distortion dramatically. It may not raise your volume at all, but it can really lower the distortion in the F speakers once they have the low notes filtered out.

If you had installed an 8" or 10" subwoofer in a custom fiberglass enclosure, a set of high-end front components, and a 3 or 4-channel amp, and had it interfaced to the OEM HU, you should be able to get something like that for $1400-1500 installed into either car. At my store we would use a set of a/d/s/ comps, a DLS 3-channel amp, and a DLS 8 or 10 sub. I am figuring in some adapters and wire and all that.

A lower-cost solution would be to upgrade the factory speakers but NOT add a sub. You could just get the F components and a 2-channel amp for probably around $800 installed?

If you wanted to save money from there, I would use my avincar house brand of speakers instead (I buy them from European OEMs and private label them). You probably only save about $100 though.

These vary with the gear and such, but are rough estimates. Anything much cheaper than that is probably not something I'd do - I'd wait : )

don't know if this hits your price range or not... let me know though : )


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## tromar1 (May 6, 2005)

El Duderino,

You asked: I'm not sure which of your cars you're focusing on?

I'm focusing on the X3. I replaced the factory headunit with an AVIC-N2. The rear DVD changer (shown in pic) has a TV tuner behind it. Under both front seats are video switcher, game plus thingy, and unit for the wireless head phones. 

You stated: A lower-cost solution would be to upgrade the factory speakers but NOT add a sub. You could just get the F components and a 2-channel amp for probably around $800 installed?*

Question: what is "F components?" my running assumption: F = front....????
This option seems appealing...one reason is space. I have seen fabrication for a rear sub and wasn't too thrilled. Space is a premium. The X3 has subs (i think) under both front seats. I'm sure these aren't nearly as good as an after market replacement, but the location is perfect, as it doesn't interfere with space. 

Another reason...price. With the amp and speakers, minus the sub...that would be within my parameter regarding sound expectations, and price. Anything $$ greater would end in my wife on CNN/MSNBC/FoxNews as the prime suspect for my missing body.

Thanks...


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

Yes, F is Front, sorry.

The "subs" under the seats are way shallow and in tiny boxes. BMW is going this way in all their cars, and I'm not impressed by their performance in anything I've heard so far.

That gets a little cheaper with an aftermarket HU, sorry I forgot to check your thread. You could probably do a system for around $1000-1100 installed with new front components and a fiberglassed-in sub. For just the fronts and a 2-channel amp of good quality, you would be under $700.

Looking at the pics of an X3 from the back (haven't done this yet, but I tend to form plans ahead of time), I would put a sub in the pass side rear corner in place of that tray.

Here's a pic of a sub we did in an X5: http://kward1.homestead.com/X5subbox.html

It was made to be behind panels, not out in the open, but it shouldn't be hard to cover it in a matching fabric so that it looks OEM. It would be similar to the sub enclosure in this WRX (see the bottom of the page): http://kward1.homestead.com/WRXafter.html


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## tromar1 (May 6, 2005)

el_duderino said:


> Yes, F is Front, sorry.
> 
> The "subs" under the seats are way shallow and in tiny boxes. BMW is going this way in all their cars, and I'm not impressed by their performance in anything I've heard so far.
> 
> ...


 Either options now seems appealing. That seems to be the amount of $$ I would want to spend (excluding the Sub option) After seeing your suggestions for sub enclosure, i'm now interested in that because it doesn't appears to take away from the space. Here is an example of an X3 with sub in the passenger side rear quarter panel. The protrusion, in my humble opinion did nothing for me asthetically. The fabrication, though, appeared first class. 
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107960

So, if i get this right...
(a) new front speakers, which includes tweeters, etc.. 
(b) 2-channel amp
(c) installation cost.

Again, I'm not looking for volume as much as I'm looking for clarity. Thanks Duderino...


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

OK, I was figuring on an amp that lists at $200 and at 30W x2 RMS. We use the DLS CA 22 in that slot, but other companies have one as well, and theirs might be easier to hide. 

The a/d/s/ 2-series comps list at $300 a set, and you can often get them for a little less as part of a system. I like the silk dome tweeter and the low crossover point that elevates the vocals up to eye level. I wouldn't get any metal-dome tweeter personally, I find them fatiguing to listen to over time. DLS also makes a kit around that price as I recall, and Morel Dotech are close in price.

Installation of an aftermarket amp is very straightforward if you have an aftermarket deck - location is the only big question. Where will it fit? If you used an amp from Eclipse or some other maker of low-profile amps that would help. But if you spend $200 for install of an amp and a set of comps, that seems about right. Tell a shop what you have for a budget and they can probably hit this without too much trouble.

As far as that installation, gel coat in the back of an SUV will be problematic to keep from scratching, and I believe that the reason it comes out so far into the cargo area is that that woofer is very, very deep. It is also a very long-travel woofer and as such is hard to grille. In most custom boxes you would recess the woofer enough to put some kind of grille on it, but I don't think they had the depth to spare in that case. That's also a very expensive woofer - I would use a less expensive woofer, that also has a smaller magnet and a smaller frame. 

I have a guy in our building with an X3 - maybe I can get him to let us see it.


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## cambie (Mar 13, 2005)

el_duderino said:


> Easy, it's not. Doable for a skilled installation shop who's knowledgable, sure. Where are you geographically?


in STL, Missouri

even having done a ton of stereo installs, you don't think i'd be able to handle this? that's not to imply i wouldn't rather just pay someone else to do it.


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## el_duderino (Aug 1, 2005)

If the 2005 3-series has a volume-variable preamp out, then it shouldn't be too hard (you may need an LOC that takes out DC from the signal). You will need a voltmeter or o-scope and a sine wave test disc.

If it has a fixed level out like the 2005 X5 we did, then you have a ton of work in front of you, or a Clean Sweep.

I should know that but I have just gotten back into retail after years in product development : (


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## tromar1 (May 6, 2005)

el_duderino said:


> OK, I was figuring on an amp that lists at $200 and at 30W x2 RMS. We use the DLS CA 22 in that slot, but other companies have one as well, and theirs might be easier to hide.
> 
> The a/d/s/ 2-series comps list at $300 a set, and you can often get them for a little less as part of a system. I like the silk dome tweeter and the low crossover point that elevates the vocals up to eye level. I wouldn't get any metal-dome tweeter personally, I find them fatiguing to listen to over time. DLS also makes a kit around that price as I recall, and Morel Dotech are close in price.
> 
> ...


 el duderion: Thanks for the suggestions. I got the parts today.
1. Kewood KAC-6402 4-channel 400 w amp. I chose this one primarily for size. 
2. Front speakers: 2 MB Quart component
3. Rear speakes: 2 MB Quart coaxial - I decided to do the rear afterall.

I look forward to hearing the difference. Thanks for the consultation.


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