# Tesla surpasses BMW to become the 4th most valuable car company



## acoste (Nov 27, 2011)

Reality is that Tesla currently has about 10% of the global EV market share, and about .001% of the global car sales market. 
It can only succeed (and survive) if the Model 3 will be successful. Model 3 success is not given since Tesla made some shortcuts in testing the manufacturing process so the quality will be questionable. Also the Model 3 already has a lot of competitors currently on the market. Model S is getting competitors soon from German premium car makers. The market pricing is just a hype and wishful thinking.


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## LMK5 (Jul 2, 2014)

This is clearly a valuation based on a lot of emotion and lofty growth projections. The smallest misstep will really hurt Tesla's share price. The P/E ratio of Tesla shares is -430 now, and 83 based on 2019 projections. Proceed with caution.

I think BMW's main present challenge is in Germany itself. Look at the pricing of an Audi A4, a C300, and a BMW 3-series with similar equipment. The A4 and C300 are both cheaper, have more features, and are updated. What does BMW have to justify the price premium? BMW's pricing seems to be out of control. Right now they aren't doing anything better than their competitors but they're asking their customers to pay more. Customers have noticed as US 3-series sales were down -39.6% in May 2017 vs. May of 2016.


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## AntDX316 (Nov 3, 2009)

If you lease a vehicle and don't drive far beyond home but if you do, you don't mind charging up at rest stops I assume Tesla is the best vehicle to get? It's because I think they use top patented space age technology coupled to the vehicle industry. No one can touch it but I haven't done research. I just wonder how they are the only one doing this and no one else can copy like BMW. It makes no sense to hybrid unless it's going to be for a KERS system like Nitrous. Using it to save some gas is stupid imo. I'm not sure if it's cheaper by going hybrid on a lower cyl car than getting one with a higher cyl. If you end up getting that used the batteries don't last as long as Toyota/Lexus and cost way more.


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## AntDX316 (Nov 3, 2009)

I mean, the reality could be to be the start of the electric vehicle market. Instead of having say 50 gas stations to 1 Tesla facility it would be more 1:1? It would decrease the need for fossil fuels. I think it's just setting up the world for AI electric 5G. The 5G standard hasn't been released yet but soon to be. Look at the Ericsson seminar about 5G on youtube.


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## Dio///M (Jul 12, 2015)

Elon Musk's growing empire is fueled by $4.9 billion in government subsidies.

Tesla is alive thanks to government generosity. Take the subsidies away, and sales will absolutely crash.
A looming question is whether the company is moving toward self-sufficiency and whether they can slash development costs before the public largesse ends.

Tesla and SolarCity continue to report net losses after a decade in business, but the stocks of both companies have soared on their potential


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## LMK5 (Jul 2, 2014)

Yes, but the future does seem pointed towards electric vehicles. The 800 pound gorilla in the room of course is the range and the charging times, but when/if that comes down to acceptable levels why would anyone choose gas at that point? I do see a surprising number of Toyota fuel cell Mirais around here. At one point fuel cell seemed to be the more promising technology but EV surged ahead.


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## acoste (Nov 27, 2011)

LMK5 said:


> Yes, but the future does seem pointed towards electric vehicles. The 800 pound gorilla in the room of course is the range and the charging times, but when/if that comes down to acceptable levels why would anyone choose gas at that point? I do see a surprising number of Toyota fuel cell Mirais around here. At one point fuel cell seemed to be the more promising technology but EV surged ahead.


I'm happy to see all those Mirais on the road. Wish them good future!
What I don't like about the EVs that their batteries aren't recyclable. And that is the heaviest part of the car.


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## Dio///M (Jul 12, 2015)

BMW has announced that it will have an all-electric 3 Series sedan capable of 248 miles, on display at the Frankfurt Auto Show in September and be available for sale less than a year later...

The company says it has spent nearly $6 billion on electric car R&D recently and will continue to invest heavily in adding electric and plug-in hybrid cars to its selection of models.

When the Tesla 3 goes into production this month, buyers will have a choice of color and wheels and nothing else,....Bmw being Bmw will continue to offer of vast array of choices and keep spoiling their customers...

When government subsidies dry up eventually for Tesla and with strong competition heating up in the all electric sector , (Volvo announced today that after 2019 ALL their cars will be electric or hybrid) Tesla will be in serious turbulent times.


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## nyca (Aug 22, 2014)

It doesn't matter what the electric 3 series is, how good it is. Tesla is a cult. The people who buy the car think they are saving the planet, think Musk is a near deity, no other manufacturer can match that. Have you see the interior of the Model 3, the dash, its a joke - they are still lined up to buy it. Tesla is doing some good things to be sure, like investing in a charging network, battery technology, etc - but other manufacturers who think there are hordes of people lined up wanting full electrics that aren't Teslas, are mistaken.


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## Matthew424 (Aug 1, 2015)

nyca said:


> It doesn't matter what the electric 3 series is, how good it is. Tesla is a cult. The people who buy the car think they are saving the planet, think Musk is a near deity, no other manufacturer can match that. Have you see the interior of the Model 3, the dash, its a joke - they are still lined up to buy it. Tesla is doing some good things to be sure, like investing in a charging network, battery technology, etc - but other manufacturers who think there are hordes of people lined up wanting full electrics that aren't Teslas, are mistaken.


I ran some brief numbers on the Tesla leasing website (P100D AWD....why not??) and the residual after 3 years is about 45%. With 5k down (total 8k due at singing), monthly payment is about 2k month X 36 months for a 140k car. Will be interesting to see what secondary market looks like and long term costs.


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## 559056 (Oct 8, 2016)

This is a bit of an empty fluff piece. They are talking about market capitalization. That is the total number of shares times the price per share. Tesla has reported only one single profitable quarter in the last 5+ (?) years. They did that, by cooking the books and postponing losses to the next quarter. 
Tesla has never made money, cannot make money, will never make money. They lose money on every single unit/product (they are more than a car company now) that goes out the door. For reasons that are beyond comprehension, that demonstrate the depths of human stupidity, the price of TSLA is ~$360/share. Not bad, for a company that guarantees the shareholder will never see a return on their investment. No serious investor would go near a company like that (except to short it).


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## 07BMW750i (Aug 3, 2017)

*Tesla Finally Going to Have "Comfort Access" In Their Cars*

*A Tesla Customer Complained on Twitter. Less Than 30 Minutes Later, Elon Musk Promised to Fix It*



> On Friday evening, Tesla customer Paul Franks tweeted the following:
> 
> @elonmusk can you guys program the car once in park to move back the seat and raise the steering wheel? Steering wheel is wearing.
> -- Paul Franks (@pjfranks1509) August 19, 2017
> ...


Source: https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/elon-musk-promises-to-implement-customer-suggestio.html


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## acoste (Nov 27, 2011)

07BMW750i said:


> *A Tesla Customer Complained on Twitter. Less Than 30 Minutes Later, Elon Musk Promised to Fix It*
> 
> Source: https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/elon-musk-promises-to-implement-customer-suggestio.html


This sounds like something but it's just marketing bs. My old 1998 528i raises the steering wheel when I remove the key. And the seat won't move back in any car without user input since it could break luggage or someone's leg.

this article describes it well how far Tesla marketing and the engineering reality are from each other:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas...sparks-dissent-among-its-engineers-1503593742


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## God-Follower (Oct 3, 2014)

acoste said:


> This sounds like something but it's just marketing bs. My old 1998 528i raises the steering wheel when I remove the key. And the seat won't move back in any car without user input since it could break luggage or someone's leg.
> 
> this article describes it well how far Tesla marketing and the engineering reality are from each other:
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas...sparks-dissent-among-its-engineers-1503593742


My dad's infiniti Q60 allows you to check a box in the settings to automatically assume an "entry" mode every time the car is shut off, moving back the seat and raising the steering wheel. Once you check the box it does it every time without input, so kind of confirms your point and kind of counters it.

When he got his 535d one of his first complaints was that it does not do this, so he had me code the feature in. It is built into BMWs as an option, just not normally active.

As for Tesla, I am all for the company staying around for a while. I don't plan on buying one of their cars, but I think the market "competition" is driving battery tech research and development around the globe. I agree with others above though, hard to understand how a company that has reported losses for so long is still doing business.


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## 07BMW750i (Aug 3, 2017)

acoste said:


> This sounds like something but it's just marketing bs. My old 1998 528i raises the steering wheel when I remove the key. And the seat won't move back in any car without user input since it could break luggage or someone's leg.
> 
> this article describes it well how far Tesla marketing and the engineering reality are from each other:
> 
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas...sparks-dissent-among-its-engineers-1503593742


My 2007 750i has the Comfort Access, which I am very happy to have. It moves the chair back and moves the steering wheel up and in whenever I remove the special key; and it moves the everything back to my pre-programmed driving position whenever I push the Start button. My only complain is that it cost nearly $500.00 to replace a Comfort Access key.

My point is that Tesla should have had this feature, at least as an option, on their car since they are considered a luxury brand.


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## GeorgeBush234 (Jan 31, 2012)

I think tesla might be a potential car manufacturer for the future and upcoming generations. 
Bmw has a whole lot more car series than other luxury car unibody cars


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## saskbmw (Jan 2, 2018)

Agreed with the naysayers on Tesla.

Elon Musk should be arrested by the SEC for deceiving shareholders, complete fraud.

Tesla, even if they were successful, will not ever amass that value.

They claim they want a gold medal for sprinting, but train for high jump; their initiatives are all over the place, from firing rockets in backyards to building batteries in Australia. Priorities are skewed. 

Excuse over excuse why they can't succeed or meet quotas.

As far as I am concerned, once Honda and Toyota ever start pumping out EVs, Tesla will be on its death bed. Of course, BMW, Mercedes, etc, could do the same. As of now, Tesla is merely a boutique luxury car dealer, they are not the future of automaking.

I expect their stock to crash hard sooner then later.


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## Mike Z3 (Jan 1, 2018)

strange evaluation, and way of looking at their business, its like futures in the commodities world. Still...Tesla has no where near the deliveries and top line revenues BMW enjoys. Perhaps in years to come after Tesla can figure out how to get a car 800 ++ miles without a charge, at a reasonable cost to the consumer, sales will take off. Until then...we will continue to stay loyal to and enjoy our BMW's.


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## Dio///M (Jul 12, 2015)

What surprises me is that the Tesla shares are essentially a "BET" as to what the company can potentially be worth in the future, NOT REALLY what it's currently worth....in the meantime Tesla is continuing to announce new projects ( like trucks, roadsters, trailers etc) to bring in investors...this could all go terribly wrong...the model 3 will make or brake the company..

Magnum, this is a private line. Clear off..


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