# Cleaning then waxing



## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

I was told I would get best results by using:
Zymol Cleaner Wax: 








and then Black Magic Wet Shine Liquid Wax:









they are both excellent products from searching on the web, but what do you guys think about them and can they be use in conjuction?


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

The cleaner wax is designed as a one step process cleans and protects in one action...it will give you a decent start...then the black magic is about the same it has some abrasives in it so that will continue to polish and clean...they both of some protection abilities.

I would switch out one for a paste wax Zymol makes one, this way you are topping the car with 100% protection not cutting or cleaning any longer


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## phantombmw (Nov 6, 2007)

I wouldn't bother with the Zymol. Depending on how bad the finish is I would suggest using a claybar and then a dedicated polish and then topping with your favorite wax. I'm sure the black magic isn't bad, I've never tried it but I'd go for a better quality product like Zaino or p21s if you're going to do it.


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## OH530 (Mar 30, 2008)

The Zymol will make your jet black 740 really shine. I have used the same product on my jet black 530i. The rub is that the Zymol doesn't last very long. Within a week to 10 days that fabulous shine will be gone. I'd try to preserve it with a topping of wax that has no cleaners. I've never tried this myself, but some on this forum swear it works. By the way, be prepared for some serious dusting when wiping off that Zymol. You'll need lots of microfiber towels!


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

dboy11 said:


> The cleaner wax is designed as a one step process cleans and protects in one action...it will give you a decent start...then the black magic is about the same it has some abrasives in it so that will continue to polish and clean...they both of some protection abilities.
> 
> I would switch out one for a paste wax Zymol makes one, this way you are topping the car with 100% protection not cutting or cleaning any longer


This makes sense. In keeping one, which one would you keep? I'm thinking the Zymol.

Now, after Zymol then I will apply a straight wax, can someone tell me which 100% protection wax will be best for my car (color jet black)?


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

phantombmw said:


> I wouldn't bother with the Zymol. Depending on how bad the finish is I would suggest using a claybar and then a dedicated polish and then topping with your favorite wax. I'm sure the black magic isn't bad, I've never tried it but I'd go for a better quality product like Zaino or p21s if you're going to do it.


Now, I don't think my car needs a clay bar yet (garage kept), it just has some "spider wed" fine lines that are only noticeable at some angles and lights.

Now my Camry does needs something stronger, and I was thinking on buying ICE Liquid Clay Bar, and then following with ICE Synthetic Liquid Polish, what do you guys think? (Camry color is brownish/goldish type)


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

OH530 said:


> The Zymol will make your jet black 740 really shine. I have used the same product on my jet black 530i. The rub is that the Zymol doesn't last very long. Within a week to 10 days that fabulous shine will be gone. I'd try to preserve it with a topping of wax that has no cleaners. I've never tried this myself, but some on this forum swear it works. By the way, be prepared for some serious dusting when wiping off that Zymol. You'll need lots of microfiber towels!


Welcome to the fest oh530. That's what I'm thinking: Zymol then some straight wax.

You are right: microfiber towels like crazy and lots of dust (and my arm will be dead for years to come :rofl


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## ronkh (May 11, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> This makes sense. In keeping one, which one would you keep? I'm thinking the Zymol.
> 
> Now, after Zymol then I will apply a straight wax, can someone tell me which 100% protection wax will be best for my car (color jet black)?


I've had great results with Natty's Blue & Red
(this hasn't been waxed since late October). Shot was taken yesterday.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

rafa7 said:


> This makes sense. In keeping one, which one would you keep? I'm thinking the Zymol.
> 
> Now, after Zymol then I will apply a straight wax, can someone tell me which 100% protection wax will be best for my car (color jet black)?


The Zymol is a fine choice then for paste wax I like Poorboys World Natty's Red paste wax....but Phil the detail site sponsor will have some great choices he carries Adams, Optimum Car Wax both of those are good choices.

You could also look at Zymol paste wax is good but its expensive and there are plenty of choices that are cheaper and offer the same level of protection

Here is the link for the Nattys if you are interested

http://www.poorboysworld.com


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## phantombmw (Nov 6, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> Now, I don't think my car needs a clay bar yet (garage kept), it just has some "spider wed" fine lines that are only noticeable at some angles and lights.
> 
> Now my Camry does needs something stronger, and I was thinking on buying ICE Liquid Clay Bar, and then following with ICE Synthetic Liquid Polish, what do you guys think? (Camry color is brownish/goldish type)


Even a new car can use clay bar'd, I clayed mine the day I brought it home, just gives you the perfect finish to top with wax, no contamination. I wouldn't use the ICE clay, I hate that whole line of products, HORRIBLE. Mothers or Meguiar's clay are both good, and if you're just looking for a wax coat ( or seal) can't beat zaino, if you want store bought "wax" I'm personally a big fan of Meguiar's Hi Tech Yellow #26, just make sure your surface is clean first. I'd recommend the clay if you're doing a detail, but that's just me. I don't want to put anything on my car without making sure there is nothing under the wax that is going to put a damper on my perfect finish.


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

dboy11 said:


> The Zymol is a fine choice then for paste wax I like Poorboys World Natty's Red paste wax....but Phil the detail site sponsor will have some great choices he carries Adams, Optimum Car Wax both of those are good choices.
> 
> You could also look at Zymol paste wax is good but its expensive and there are plenty of choices that are cheaper and offer the same level of protection
> 
> ...


they are out of the RED (limited edition) :dunno:


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

phantombmw said:


> Even a new car can use clay bar'd, I clayed mine the day I brought it home, just gives you the perfect finish to top with wax, no contamination....
> ... I'd recommend the clay if you're doing a detail, but that's just me. I don't want to put anything on my car without making sure there is nothing under the wax that is going to put a damper on my perfect finish


I was thinking that Zymol Cleaner Wax will remove most of the contamination, but it looks like this is not good enough (it's supposed to be a cleaner :dunno Thank you for your input, I'm new at this. Do everyone else thinks the same?



phantombmw said:


> I wouldn't use the ICE clay, I hate that whole line of products, HORRIBLE.


Are the ICE products that bad? :dunno:

Thank you again.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

rafa7 said:


> they are out of the RED (limited edition) :dunno:


Sorry didn't see that then the blue will do they are very similar


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## sr7 (Feb 27, 2008)

ronkh said:


> I've had great results with Natty's Blue & Red
> (this hasn't been waxed since late October). Shot was taken yesterday.


Looks greeeeat!!:thumbup:


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## ronkh (May 11, 2007)

sr7 said:


> Looks greeeeat!!:thumbup:


Thanks.


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## phantombmw (Nov 6, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> I was thinking that Zymol Cleaner Wax will remove most of the contamination, but it looks like this is not good enough (it's supposed to be a cleaner :dunno Thank you for your input, I'm new at this. Do everyone else thinks the same?
> 
> Are the ICE products that bad? :dunno:
> 
> Thank you again.


The Zymol would remove most contamination, but if you're looking for pure cleaning ability I would use a polish or a paint cleaner rather than a combo product such as the Zymol. Meguiars paint cleaner is decent for OTC stuff, but if you're going to do it I always say do right and clay it and then polish the paint and top it off with a quality wax (not a cleaner wax)

Others might have different views on the "ICE" line, the only thing I tried from that line that I didn't mind was their car wash. I tried the liquid wax and the spray detailer and the wax was literally the worst stuff I have EVER used. So streaky and smeared, and I'm a pro at detailing. I would assume on a light colored car you wouldn't notice as much, but on black (which is the car I used it on) it was the worst. I actually had to wash it and then use my normal polish/wax combo to get it looking perfect again. Granted I'm a lot more anal than most people, but I just like a perfect finish :thumbup:


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

ronkh said:


> I've had great results with Natty's Blue & Red
> (this hasn't been waxed since late October). Shot was taken yesterday.


wow!!!! you car looks super great, that rocks! :thumbup: (and that's what I'm looking for)
ronkh, did you do to steps or three steps as phantombmw is suggesting?


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

phantombmw said:


> The Zymol would remove most contamination, but if you're looking for pure cleaning ability I would use a polish or a paint cleaner rather than a combo product such as the Zymol. Meguiars paint cleaner is decent for OTC stuff, but if you're going to do it I always say do right and clay it and then polish the paint and top it off with a quality wax (not a cleaner wax)
> 
> Others might have different views on the "ICE" line, the only thing I tried from that line that I didn't mind was their car wash. I tried the liquid wax and the spray detailer and the wax was literally the worst stuff I have EVER used. So streaky and smeared, and I'm a pro at detailing. I would assume on a light colored car you wouldn't notice as much, but on black (which is the car I used it on) it was the worst. I actually had to wash it and then use my normal polish/wax combo to get it looking perfect again. Granted I'm a lot more anal than most people, but I just like a perfect finish :thumbup:


Should I do three steps as suggested or two steps?

If I do *three steps*, then; 
1) clay = Mothers or Meguiars Clay Bar
2) polish = who makes a good polish? :dunno:
3) wax = Poorboys World Natty's Red (or Blue)

If I do *two steps*, then;
1) cleaner = Zymol Cleaner Wax
3) wax = Poorboys World Natty's Red (or Blue)

Please your opinions. I'm looking for the best results, but I was hopping for just two steps (new at this and learning quite a lot), thank you in advance.


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## Elk42 (Jan 29, 2008)

how about this idea 

1. after a wash and dry, Rejex
2. Zymol cleaner wax
3. paste wax


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## ronkh (May 11, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> wow!!!! you car looks super great, that rocks! :thumbup: (and that's what I'm looking for)
> ronkh, did you do to steps or three steps as phantombmw is suggesting?


As I said this car hasn't been waxed since October. (unless you consider for this was I used Poorboys SuperSlick with wax, which I use in the winter every other wash)

In October. I stripped the car with dawn (putting on my asbestos undies).
Paint had just been clayed and polished in either August or September, so I got lazy and didn't do it again.

2 coats sealer (24 hrs cure time between coats)
1 coat of Natty's blue.
24 hrs
1 coat Natty's red.

Good luck, enjoy !!!


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## phantombmw (Nov 6, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> Should I do three steps as suggested or two steps?
> 
> If I do *three steps*, then;
> 1) clay = Mothers or Meguiars Clay Bar
> ...


you know my answer, and actually it would be different if your car wasn't jet black. That is by far the hardest color to detail, so taking the time to do it right really makes the difference. If you had a white car I would go with a two step process, Jet Black takes time and patience to get looking good, nothing worse than a streaky smeared up black finish that stinks of an amateur doing the detail.

For Polish if you're looking for store bought I like Meguiar's Showcar Glaze, although it's a pita to use the results are great.


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

Elk42 said:


> how about this idea
> 
> 1. after a wash and dry, Rejex
> 2. Zymol cleaner wax
> 3. paste wax


what is Rejex?
Thx.


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

ronkh said:


> As I said this car hasn't been waxed since October. (unless you consider for this was I used Poorboys SuperSlick with wax, which I use in the winter every other wash)
> 
> In October. I stripped the car with dawn (putting on my asbestos undies).
> Paint had just been clayed and polished in either August or September, so I got lazy and didn't do it again.
> ...


Do you mean "dawn" dishwashing soap?
Great advice on applying 2 coats, thank you.


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

phantombmw said:


> If you had a white car I would go with a two step process, Jet Black takes time and patience to get looking good, nothing worse than a streaky smeared up black finish that stinks of an amateur doing the detail.


I agree, I'm looking to avoid this situation. Now, is it a matter of techniques while doing the job or a matter of chosing the correct steps that would help me avoid this situation (an amateur detail job that stinks)?


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## Elk42 (Jan 29, 2008)

rafa7 said:


> what is Rejex?
> Thx.


RejeX is a sealant placed anywhere to provide protection from added brake dust leaving your car looking shiny and protected. i have not used it yet on my car because i want a prof. detailer to buff and clean the areas that i cannot do by hand. RejeX can act like a wax but dont put it on after waxing. If your wax isnt very good, the rejex will not stay on as long. im going to give it a try in the near future.


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## ronkh (May 11, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> Do you mean "dawn" dishwashing soap?
> Great advice on applying 2 coats, thank you.


Yes dawn dish soap. THE OLD FASHIONED KIND, not one of the "ultra" types.
This strips all the old wax and sealers off.

You may want to wash a second time after this(with a quality car soap NO WAX) since some people say dawn leaves a residue.

If you don;t want to use dish soap and alot of people would agree with you there are some manufacutreurs that make a stripping soap.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

ronkh said:


> Yes dawn dish soap. THE OLD FASHIONED KIND, not one of the "ultra" types.
> This strips all the old wax and sealers off.
> 
> You may want to wash a second time after this(with a quality car soap NO WAX) since some people say dawn leaves a residue.
> ...


This is what clay is for, it will take all surface contaminants off the car...or a paint cleaner is a good choice, that's what the cleaner wax is all about a one step process


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

dboy11 said:


> This is what clay is for, it will take all surface contaminants off the car...or a paint cleaner is a good choice, that's what the cleaner wax is all about a one step process


are you suggesting the Zymol cleaner wax is enough and no use of the clay bar?


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## Shaunco (Mar 29, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> Should I do three steps as suggested or two steps?
> 
> If I do *three steps*, then;
> 1) clay = Mothers or Meguiars Clay Bar
> ...


My opinion is the three-step (five-step for me) process for a black car. Dawn wash, clay bar, heavy polish, light polish, sealant/wax. The necessity for the one-two punch of the heavy & light polish really depends on how much & how severe of marring you have. I picked up some Mezerna products (83 SIP & 106 nano) from Phil and like the results (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=269089), but there are other good one's out there. As for a last step product, the sealant gives you more of a mirror shine and longer protection while a good carnuba wax produces more of a wet look like Ronkh's car. BTW, that car looks great Ron. And while the wax looks awesome, remember that it's the preparation steps leading up to the final wax that lead to those results.


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

rafa7 said:


> are you suggesting the Zymol cleaner wax is enough and no use of the clay bar?


What I am saying it a good paint cleaner...such as your cleaner wax can do an OK job of cleaning the surface and setting it up for a finial paste wax....The best treatment and prep for the paint would be to clay the car then use a paste wax that doesn't have a cleaner in it.

A cleaner wax as I stated to start is cleaning the surface and adding some protection at the same it...for those that don't want to go threw multiple stages this is a good product...if you want to give the car its best finish then the clay route is what I would be looking at to do...its more work but a better finish


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## Jim Spence (Apr 6, 2007)

I used both Prestone products this weekend - liquid clay bar and Ice paste wax - and the 15 year old paint on my car looks better than brand new. I was absolutely amazed at how well it turned out.


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## [email protected] (Feb 21, 2008)

rafa7, if I can make a suggestion.

How about 

1. wash
2. clay
3. Polish with Einszett Paint Polish
4 Finish with Einszett Glanz Wax

This is a great combo for paint that is in good condition. if you have more swirls etc go with Einszett Extra then step 3 Paint polish and then finsih with glanz.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

ronkh said:


> Yes dawn dish soap. THE OLD FASHIONED KIND, not one of the "ultra" types.
> This strips all the old wax and sealers off.
> 
> You may want to wash a second time after this(with a quality car soap NO WAX) since some people say dawn leaves a residue.
> ...


Why do people insist on using Dawn? It's for dishes and will leave a film you don't want. Any good pre-wax cleaner will get rid of old waxes and contaminants, and if that isn't enough a clay bar certainly will. Drop theh Dawn and use a soap designed for Car Paint.:dunno:


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## ronkh (May 11, 2007)

335i Driver said:


> Why do people insist on using Dawn? It's for dishes and will leave a film you don't want. Any good pre-wax cleaner will get rid of old waxes and contaminants, and if that isn't enough a clay bar certainly will. Drop theh Dawn and use a soap designed for Car Paint.:dunno:





ronkh said:


> Yes dawn dish soap. THE OLD FASHIONED KIND, not one of the "ultra" types.
> This strips all the old wax and sealers off.
> 
> You may want to wash a second time after this(with a quality car soap NO WAX) since some people say dawn leaves a residue.
> ...


/


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

dboy11 said:


> What I am saying it a good paint cleaner...such as your cleaner wax can do an OK job of cleaning the surface and setting it up for a finial paste wax....The best treatment and prep for the paint would be to clay the car then use a paste wax that doesn't have a cleaner in it.
> 
> A cleaner wax as I stated to start is cleaning the surface and adding some protection at the same it...for those that don't want to go threw multiple stages this is a good product...if you want to give the car its best finish then the clay route is what I would be looking at to do...its more work but a better finish


dboy11, thank you for the clarification, I undestand now.

Overall steps should be: 
1) stripping old wax with a pre-wax cleaner
2) cleaning paint with a cleaner or clay bar
3) polishing paint to remove swirls etc 
4) waxing for protection (two coats better)

holly molly, this is big kahuna's


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

rafa7 said:


> dboy11, thank you for the clarification, I undestand now.
> 
> Overall steps should be:
> 1) stripping old wax with a pre-wax cleaner
> ...


Skip step one step two will clean the cars paint and strip all at once...Since you are considering clay...that's the step that I would use...it will do every thing that you want in one step to prep for the polish.

As for layering wax...you can put on as many coats as you like...just make sure that it doesn't have any cleaners in it...straight carnauba based paste wax


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## rafa7 (Sep 5, 2007)

Thanks everyone:
For the clay I got = Mothers or Meguiars Clay Bar
And for the wax I'm leaning towards Poorboys World Natty's Red (or Blue)

I need more advice on polishing, since I have paint swirls (one that doesn't take the hole day --I doing this by hand);
1) Shaunco recommended Mezerna products (83 SIP & 106 nano) 
2) phantombmw said Meguiar's Showcar Glaze
3) [email protected] says: Polish with Einszett Paint Polish


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## dboy11 (Mar 6, 2006)

rafa7 said:


> Thanks everyone:
> For the clay I got = Mothers or Meguiars Clay Bar
> And for the wax I'm leaning towards Poorboys World Natty's Red (or Blue)
> 
> ...


1 or 3 are really high end products and will do you a great job!

PB Nattys wax is a superior product for the money...he is sold out on the red right now but the blue will kick butt for you

Since you are working on the car by hand its a dark color and you have swirls, have a look at Pooorboys World glaze called black hole...its the step that you will make before you apply the wax...Its a brand new release for him. I have been field testing it for the last several months...the cool thing about it is it will bring POP to the paint and fill in the swirls for you...then when you lay down the wax its going to rock the finish of your car


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## Shaunco (Mar 29, 2007)

rafa7 said:


> Thanks everyone:
> For the clay I got = Mothers or Meguiars Clay Bar
> And for the wax I'm leaning towards Poorboys World Natty's Red (or Blue)
> 
> ...


I was pleased w/Mezerna, but like I mentioned, there are several good product lines to choose from: Optimum, Meguiar's (professional), Einszett, Poorboy's, etc. In fact, I think I might try some of the Natty's Blue myself.

As far as the Dawn/clay bar combo, I only use the Dawn first as I find my clay bar will last much longer and Dawn is most definitely cheaper than the clay bar. Since you need to wash the car before you clay anyway, it just seems a natural step to me to throw a little Dawn in the water. I didn't mean to imply that it's a must. I've not noticed a film/residue, but that's probably because I clay afterwards.

But rafa, when you say that "you're doing this by hand," do you mean w/o an orbital or rotary buffer? If so, my guess is that it will most certainly take you at least a full day and you still may not get the quality finish for which you're looking (i.e., like Ronkh's). To get good correction results, you really benefit from the friction & heat generated by the buffer; it's extremely difficult to achieve by hand for anything more than a small area. You might be better off putting the product money towards a professional detail job. Again, I don't know how bad the swirls are, but it's something to consider before dropping a bunch of $$$ on supplies and professional quality products. Not trying to discourage you, just want you to consider all the options. Good luck w/whichever route you take.


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## ronkh (May 11, 2007)

Shaunco said:


> I was pleased w/Mezerna, but like I mentioned, there are several good product lines to choose from: Optimum, Meguiar's (professional), Einszett, Poorboy's, etc. In fact, I think I might try some of the Natty's Blue myself.
> 
> As far as the Dawn/clay bar combo, *I only use the Dawn first as I find my clay bar will last much longer and Dawn is most definitely cheaper than the clay bar. Since you need to wash the car before you clay anyway, it just seems a natural step to me to throw a little Dawn in the water.* I didn't mean to imply that it's a must. I've not noticed a film/residue, but that's probably because I clay afterwards.
> 
> But rafa, when you say that "you're doing this by hand," do you mean w/o an orbital or rotary buffer? If so, my guess is that it will most certainly take you at least a full day and you still may not get the quality finish for which you're looking (i.e., like Ronkh's). To get good correction results, you really benefit from the friction & heat generated by the buffer; it's extremely difficult to achieve by hand for anything more than a small area. You might be better off putting the product money towards a professional detail job. Again, I don't know how bad the swirls are, but it's something to consider before dropping a bunch of $$$ on supplies and professional quality products. Not trying to discourage you, just want you to consider all the options. Good luck w/whichever route you take.


ONLY use the dawn IF you are going to re-finish the wax etc. As dawn will strip off all the protection.

Now get to it. Do it, and post some pics of before and after.

Consider it bonding time with your car.


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