# First Service



## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

For the first service, what is to be expected for this visit? I assume they'll check all fluid levels after changing the oil. It's realized that our cars are based on condition based servce (CBS), but what else should I expect (ie...covered)?

 Such as:
1.) Oil filter?
2.) Air filter?
3.) DEF fillup of active and passive tanks?
2.) Check SCR metering valve?
3.) Software updates?
4.) Wash and vacuum? (which I will say 'no' to)


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

johntube said:


> For the first service, what is to be expected for this visit? I assume they'll check all fluid levels after changing the oil. It's realized that our cars are based on condition based servce (CBS), but what else should I expect (ie...covered)?
> 
> Such as:
> 1.) Oil filter?
> ...


Oil filter and DEF fillup are the ones I remember happening. Pretty certain no to the air filter. Not sure on the SCR metering valve. Software updates if one exists perhaps, one existed for my second oil change service visit but if one exists then be prepared for a long delay for it to be applied. The wash/vacuum is dependent on the dealer and if you really don't want it then I'd hang a sign on the rear view mirror that states not to and tell the SA that you don't want it done. Reason I'd do that is just telling the SA and him/her putting it on the paper work probably is not a sure fire way to prevent those guys from doing what they are just used to almost always doing.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

johntube said:


> For the first service, what is to be expected for this visit? I assume they'll check all fluid levels after changing the oil. It's realized that our cars are based on condition based servce (CBS), but what else should I expect (ie...covered)?
> 
> Such as:
> 1.) Oil filter?
> ...


Wiper blade if you ask.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

If I remember right the wiper blades can be done once a year. I had them done on my second oil change because a tension piece fell off one, blades themselves were still in great shape. The warranty booklet details what is done for each visit. My car lacked the booklet but can be downloaded off of the BMW website.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks on the responses. 

I'll leave a note letting my SA know:
- that they won't have to wash the car
- that the car is a diesel

would hate to get the wrong oil


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Don't have them replace the wiper blades from the factory. The replacement ones (for the US) are worse.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have yet to own a new car where the replacement blades were ever as good as the originals. Be them domestic of foreign made cars too. Actually same could be said for brakes and who knows what else, always wondered why that is.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

Snipe656 said:


> I have yet to own a new car where the replacement blades were ever as good as the originals. Be them domestic of foreign made cars too. Actually same could be said for brakes and who knows what else, always wondered why that is.


Very true! I'll add windshield washer fluid and battery to that list.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

I had the first service today which included an oil and filter change, along with the DEF refill and SIB 16-13-10 which is a protective hose on the SCR line. (recall?)
Being inquisitive on the specific activities taken on my car, I asked the SA if both active and passive tanks were filled. His answer didn't provide me with confidence that he understood the question or understood the diesel engine. My expectation would be that he should have asked the mechanic that worked on my car, which he never offered me. Instead, he was very kind and pleasant but never satisfied me with confident answers based on data.
The BMW ownership experience has been good so far, but I did expect more from the SA. I also understand that the dealership must get some kind of financial benefit from getting good feedback scores. I clearly know that from the SA insisting that a 10 was almost "expected" if I believed the service was good.
Oh well, should I give a rating less than 10 and write comments about the SA not satisfying my questions with data and facts, or am I being too anal? To me, a 10 is deserved when the service "exceeds" expectations...this did not happen.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

johntube said:


> Oh well, should I give the a rating less than 10 and write comments about the SA not satisfying my quetsison with data and facts, or am I being too anal? To me, a 10 is deserved when the service "exceeds" expectations, this did not happen.


Absolutely not! Rate them as you see fit given the level of service you received. The service quality index is one of the few things the dealer really pays attention to, and this is really your only chance to influence your future service quality at this dealer. The first time my D was in for scheduled service the loaner car wasn't available as promised, and a nearly complete waste of my day ensued. I made some concise but honest ratings on the survey, and the next time I was scheduled for service the SA offered to drive the loaner to my house in the morning and swap cars rather then have me fight rush-hour traffic to drop off my car. Regardless of how you rate your SA, he/she won't become your best buddy as some people seem to think, so being honest and rating as you see fit is the best approach IMHO. The one exception is if you speak to the Service Manager or owner before you get the survey and feel comfortable with the results of that discussion. But even then they won't pay much attention unless you rate them honestly.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I am honest in the surveys. Just a shame I never got a survey for my really crappy dealer experience, so I used the review system on google maps instead.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

> ...the loaner car wasn't available as promised...


 I was never offered a loaner. Luckily I have some vacation days to "burn" so I dropped off the car and waited for it. During the 1.5 hrs, I used the wireless network to login to my work sever to do work on my "vacation" day. At the very least, the waiting room was comfortable.....


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

johntube said:


> I was never offered a loaner. Luckily I have some vacation days to "burn" so I dropped off the car and waited for it. During the 1.5 hrs, I used the wireless network to login to my work sever to do work on my "vacation" day. At the very least, the waiting room was comfortable.....


For my first service they were still doing the drain and refill method for DEF. I was there for many hours using up their WiFi but luckily it was on a Saturday so no work conflicts. The guy afterwards told me since it took so long that the next time I bring it in to just get a loaner car. I think a lot of that had to do with how much DEF they had to drain before they could start the refill process.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Yes to all of the items you have listed.

Figure the SA probably sees about 20 cars a day, of which maybe one or two a week might be a D, so they are in the minority. Not surprised they don't really have a clue about the D. The website at my dealer didn't even have the 335D listed as a vehicle serviced on their on line reservation system. I complained about that twice. Now they list it but only for 2011 year, not 2009 or 2010?

So I take that as they really don't give a sh^t about the small number of D's they have in circulation.

Besides that my service experiences have all been pretty good, both times I got a loaner (BMW) or a Hertz rental, if out of BMWs. No big deal.

Serviced at 15k and 25k.

28k miles now and still going strong.:thumbup:


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## Kief (Dec 6, 2007)

So this morning I bring in my X5d for the first service @ 8700ish miles (I thought BMW changed their annual low mileage policy, but apparently they went back to their previous policy) :dunno:

So I ask for the following: oil change, state inspection, DEF top off, lube door seals and tailgate. Believe it or not, I have a great relationship with my dealer in both sales and service. Everything went according to plan; however, when I get home and open the hood, I see DEF residue spots throughout the engine bay. I also noticed a small bit on my front bumper and headlight. I clean everything off ASAP, but why can't a tech refill without making a mess :dunno: I always ask that they never wash my cars, so perhaps this would have been cleaned had they washed it. But one would think that would give more of a reason to ensure the crap was cleaned :tsk:


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

> ...I see DEF residue spots throughout the engine bay. I also noticed a small bit on my front bumper and headlight. I clean everything off ASAP, but why can't a tech refill without making a mess I always ask that they never wash my cars, so perhaps this would have been cleaned had they washed it. But one would think that would give more of a reason to ensure the crap was cleaned...


 I didn't mention it in my previous posts, but I also asked that my car not be washed, which my dealership fully complied with. But upon looking the car over after the first service, I noticed several streaks that originated from DEF filler area. I cleaned them off but why wouldn***8217;t the technician clean this as it happens?

Also, when the SA asked me if I had any concerns or complaints about the vehicle, I said two things. 1.) That the stock stereo was not fitting for such a nice car and that 2.) the door seals "squeak" and "groan". What do you believe the response from my SA was? You guessed it, he did not say a word or offer to "fix" the problem. I'm sure he has seen many rattling door seals on the many BMWs that come into the dealership.

Needless to say, my expectation of the BMW ownership experience were not exceeded....


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have only driven three BMW cars and all 3-series, none at least had door seal "squeak" and "groans". Little sounds like that on new cars drive me batty. On old cars I just turn the stereo up more and more to drawn it out.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

johntube said:


> Also, when the SA asked me if I had any concerns or complaints about the vehicle, I said two things. 1.) That the stock stereo was not fitting for such a nice car and that 2.) the door seals "squeak" and "groan". What do you believe the response from my SA was? You guessed it, he did not say a word or offer to "fix" the problem. I'm sure he has seen many rattling door seals on the many BMWs that come into the dealership.
> 
> Needless to say, my expectation of the BMW ownership experience were not exceeded....


I'm assuming you have a 2010? If so, the base audio system is amazingly poor. I installed the Bavarian Sound Works (BSW) e90 speaker upgrade (which also includes the front and rear tweeters BWM left out of the 2010's). It's $500 and and a couple of hours of my time I shouldn't have had to spend on a $50k car, but it made a world of difference in sound quality.

Graham


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## vruss7 (Aug 27, 2011)

My first service for my X5 Diesel was not great. Upon arrival and discussion with the SA he did not know anything about the DEF. My concern was did they fill the tanks along with the oil change or would I have to bring the vehicle back when the notice of nostart in 999 miles. He got smart quick and informed me that the BMW service bulletin was issued that said draining of the DEF was no longer required just refill the tanks. He assured me in any case they would not service the car and then have me come back when the no start notice came up. I also informed him not to wash the car. He then said my car would require a SW update and rather than have me wait for a long period they would put me in a loaner. Was directed to the desk for a loaner which was actually Enterprise and got put into a NISSAN Cube, UGGGG (who would ever buy one of those things). Came back to fpick up my X5 after they called to say it was ready and was informed it had to be washed as the mechanic spilled some liquid on it. I failed to look under the hood until I got home and the whole left side of the engine compartment was covered in DEF residue. Needless to say I was somewhat fpissed big time. Called my SA to voice fmy amazement and displeasure with this situation and made sure I emailed fhim the photo's for recorde purposes when possible damage surfaced as this product is a corrosive and not good for electrical connectors. I washed the compartment and dried it by hand myself. No problems so far. I do not plan on taking it back to that dealer even though the SA said he would make it up to me on my next visit. Also sent a note to my salesman and told him I was less than impressed with the service. To my knowledge on the oil was changed and DEF added with SWf updates. Would like to know when filters air intake and interior compartment are due - mileage or Idrive notice on time.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

First time I have read that DEF is corrosive.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

How did the mechanic spill DEF in the Engine compartment?


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Fill port is under the hood on an X5, if memory serves me correctly.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> First time I have read that DEF is corrosive.


It's Urea, right? Says it is neither acidic nor alkaline when dissolved in water, but will produce ammonia.

I think it just leaves white crystals when it evaporates after a spill. I wouldn't want it spilled in or around my car for sure.

A Trucker's Concerns

"We're concerned because we don't know enough about the new urea technology," says Adam Collum, Manager and Co-Owner of Hellums Trucking Co. in Dennis, Mississippi, United States.

"A new heavy-duty diesel truck now costs about $100,000. Adding the urea SCR system will add $10,000 to the cost. How much more will the urea solution that we burn cost? What about maintenance? Will the urea cause corrosion?"

Doran says, "Urea can be corrosive to aluminum. Vehicle SCR systems and DEF dispensers have been designed to accommodate this and DEF is always stored in appropriate containers."

7
Urea is corrosive to aluminum, so it must be stored
in stainless steel or heavy grade plastic containers.
AdBlue warning from Mercedes owners***8217; manual.
The price of AdBlue (European brand of urea)
increased 15-30% in early 2008.
Urea is made from natural gas,
so prices can be quite volatile.
All About Urea
How Much Does it Cost?
With NO government mandate, there is
no assurance it will be readily available.
$17.76 plus tax
per HALF-gallon
10-24-08
$12.00
per gallon
ADVANCED EGR
2010 Emission Compliant
MF_Advanced_EGR_Book[p].indd 7 12/17/08 10:13 AM

BlueTec Technology in Europe


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Interesting. I think I was looking to see if it were just on paint. Personally I'd not want anything spilled by a mechanic and on/in the car, regardless on if it could damage something or not.


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## bing330i (Dec 27, 2001)

Kief said:


> So this morning I bring in my X5d for the first service @ 8700ish miles (I thought BMW changed their annual low mileage policy, but apparently they went back to their previous policy) :dunno:


Would you or anyone comment on what current annual low mileage policy is? My D is approaching the first year in service mark but only 5k miles. Can/should I bring the car in for service or just wait the car's computer to indicate so? Thanks in advance!


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## bing330i (Dec 27, 2001)

vruss7 said:


> My first service for my X5 Diesel was not great.


Would you mind sharing which dealer this is? I see you are in VA. Hopefully not the one at Sterling, VA. Thanks.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

bing330i said:


> Would you or anyone comment on what current annual low mileage policy is? My D is approaching the first year in service mark but only 5k miles. Can/should I bring the car in for service or just wait the car's computer to indicate so? Thanks in advance!


Car will indicate at one years time. Mine has done it for the past oil changes.


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## vruss7 (Aug 27, 2011)

This link provides info on AdBlue - see part about corrosive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdBlue
Don't have any idea how the mechanic sprayed the DEF all over the left side of the engine other than not lifting the bottle up before unscrewing from the refill tube. i added a bottle from BMW and followed the owners manual pretty simple and fool proof.

Also saw an stack of adBlue at a Loves truck stop $12.99 for 2.5 Gal. I'm guessing this is ok to use in all auto SCR systems.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

A few days after my first service, I received and completed the BMW Service survey in an honest and open manner. I gave high marks where I felt it was deserved and lower marks for areas of opportunity.

I did mention:
- DEF fluid streaks on the car
- No offer for a loaner
- Not being convinced that both DEF tanks were filled
- Squeaks and groans from the door seals

A few days after completion, the SA sent me an Email to explain the loaner "policy" and to also apologize for the DEF fluid left on the car body. It was great that the dealership took the time to provide me feedback, but there was absolutely NO mention of the DEF fillup or how to "fix" the door squeaks........

The other day, I finally cleaned the seals and then applied a product called 'Gummi Pflege Stift'. Squeaks are now gone!!!

Hope my next service goes smoother.....:tsk:


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## TopDog5450 (Feb 11, 2011)

johntube said:


> How did the mechanic spill DEF in the Engine compartment?


I was wondering the same thing while reading this thread. It's my understanding that the DEF canister is located at the rear lower half of the vehicle, not in the engine compartment.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

TopDog5450 said:


> I was wondering the same thing while reading this thread. It's my understanding that the DEF canister is located at the rear lower half of the vehicle, not in the engine compartment.


I am pretty sure the fill neck on an X5 is under the hood.


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## TopDog5450 (Feb 11, 2011)

Snipe656 said:


> I am pretty sure the fill neck on an X5 is under the hood.


Oh, I did not know that. Miss-communication...I was thinking 335d. Forgot for a moment that there are other BMW diesel models.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

TopDog5450 said:


> Oh, I did not know that. Miss-communication...I was thinking 335d. Forgot for a moment that there are other BMW diesel models.


Don't feel too bad, I hardly notice the X5 diesels on the streets even though I am actually around them a lot. They need bigger badges or something.


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