# clutch problems. Has anyone found the answer?



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

*question on throw-out bearing..*

I have this same "sticky clutch" syndrome. It only happens when the clutch is cold and it disappears after about 15 minutes of driving. If is the throw-out bearing causing the problem, would there be any harm in NOT replacing it? Would my clutch life be somehow shortened-- or it purely just an annoyance in terms of feel? If so, i think i'd rather live w/ it for now-- since i don't want any dealer taking apart my transmission and clutch-- in my experience they'll make something else much worse. I know eventualy i'll have to replace the clutch and the bearing, but i'd rather subject my car to that trauma later in its life.


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## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: question on throw-out bearing..*



robg said:


> *I have this same "sticky clutch" syndrome. It only happens when the clutch is cold and it disappears after about 15 minutes of driving. If is the throw-out bearing causing the problem, would there be any harm in NOT replacing it? Would my clutch life be somehow shortened-- or it purely just an annoyance in terms of feel? If so, i think i'd rather live w/ it for now-- since i don't want any dealer taking apart my transmission and clutch-- in my experience they'll make something else much worse. I know eventualy i'll have to replace the clutch and the bearing, but i'd rather subject my car to that trauma later in its life. *


From what I understand (thanks to HACK), the clutch is completely enclosed in a bell housing, and usually, this assembly is not taken apart, rather the entire unit gets replaced (probably by a rebuilt part).

The throw out bearing is actually a cheap part - but you have to remove the clutch assembly to get to it.

Rob - not sure about the warm up issue...mine always "rubs" or "shudders", regardless of how hot, cold, or long I've been driving the car.

To be honest, I'm not sure how the bearing works. Anyone? HACK??


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## ChrisTO (Jan 24, 2002)

that is exactly what i feel even with the engine off. in fact i can hear the clutch 'snap' while parked and engine off.

it comes and goes with no reason. with so many people experiencing the same issue i've come to accept it as a design quirk.



robg said:


> *Before my car fully warms up, I can feel a "click" or a snap halfway through the clutch pedal travel-- but I only feel it when clutching out from a standstill -- or if I depress the clutch pedal while stopped. Is this what you guys are talking about? *


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## 10chi (Jan 11, 2002)

Kyle said:


> *I see that many people have posted similar problems with their clutch, but has anyone ever gotten it resolved?
> 
> I have a '00 323ci. Sometimes, more often than not, when I press and release the clutch pedal I feel a vibrating, rubbery feel. My dealer replaced bushings, clutch assembly and master cylinder, yet problem is still there. What the hell? I drove another E46 3-series just to see if this is just the way this clutch acts, but I did not feel anything but smooth travel.
> 
> Can anyone shed some light on the subject?:banghead: *


Question: I have had the same problems with my clutch. Did you have to pay for the replacements? Or did they cover it under warranty? My dealer advised me that I should just get the whole clutch kit replaced rather than getting charged $700 to go in and take a look at what the problem was.


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## 10chi (Jan 11, 2002)

The HACK said:


> *
> 
> The problem with that is the clutch can NOT be taken apart without some major work...BMW clutchs now come in a completely sealed bell shaped housing and the only way to diagnose a problem is to completely disassemble the entire clutch assembly.
> 
> ...


They're willing to check it for free? The guys at Foreign Motors West in MA told me that even though my car is under warranty (maintenance and regular) I would have to fork out $700 to have it looked at. Of course if they found something I wouldn't have to pay the $700 and rather only the cost of the actual repairs. They did advise me to just replace the whole clutch assembly like you said.


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## Ben Chou (Dec 24, 2001)

There is a TSB on the clutch shudder and they will replace the whole clutch assembly under warranty.


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## 10chi (Jan 11, 2002)

Ben Chou said:


> *There is a TSB on the clutch shudder and they will replace the whole clutch assembly under warranty. *


Any tips on how to ask for this? I have taken my car in before and all i got were shoulder shrugs. They said they had no idea as to what the problem was and that I should have the clutch replaced at my cost.


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## Ben Chou (Dec 24, 2001)

10chi said:


> *
> 
> Any tips on how to ask for this? I have taken my car in before and all i got were shoulder shrugs. They said they had no idea as to what the problem was and that I should have the clutch replaced at my cost. *


Do a search on Throw Out Bearing. I posted the full TSB in there. It helps to have the symptoms that are mentioned to make them more willing to replace your clutch assembly. I have heard of some service dept. just replacing the clutch on good faith though. It is covered by warranty though..


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## 10chi (Jan 11, 2002)

Ben Chou said:


> *
> 
> Do a search on Throw Out Bearing. I posted the full TSB in there. It helps to have the symptoms that are mentioned to make them more willing to replace your clutch assembly. I have heard of some service dept. just replacing the clutch on good faith though. It is covered by warranty though.. *


Ok, I just got off the phone with the Service Advisor. He basically told me to cough up $1200 for a new clutch job. He also stated that any clutch vibration is due to the clutch pedal and not a throw out bearing. Thus it would most likely not be covered under warranty. When I mentioned about the TSB, he replied that he has only seen the problem in M5s where there is vibration and noise from the clutch. I am basically getting the feeling that they do not want to address this problem.


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## Ben Chou (Dec 24, 2001)

Here it the clutch TSB: 


As per SIB 21-01-01: 

A popping sound or clicking sound may be heard from the clutch pedal at the last third of the clutch pedal travel when the clutch pedal is engaged or released 

Procedure: Only if the customer complains of the above symptoms should the clutch be replaced. 

Affected vehicles: 

All E46's produced up to 3/01 (M52TU, M54 and S54 engines) 
All E39's with 6 cylinder engines made from 9/97 to 3/01 
All E39's with 8 cylinder engines from 9/96 to 3/01 
All X5's with the M54 engine up to 3/01 
All Z3's from 9/98 to 3/01 
All Z8's up to 3/01 

Not exactly a "vibration" as I thought, but it does affect alot of vehicles


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## 10chi (Jan 11, 2002)

Ben Chou said:


> *Here it the clutch TSB:
> 
> As per SIB 21-01-01:
> 
> ...


Eh, at this rate....Automatic here I come


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## Kyle (Jul 23, 2002)

My dealer would not replace anything until they could duplicate the problem. They supposedly never could. But, because of my persistance about the issue, they figured I've either got a mental disorder or there really is an issue. That's when they turned it over to a couple of techs from BMW of North America. One of them even admitted his own 3 has a "weird" feel to the clutch. I told them that this is a widespread problem and that they should check out forums like this for proof.

My dealer is going to replace the clutch assembly, but they are going to open the old one to see what's going on in there. My clutch is going to be the test subject I guess. 

A couple of you said you had to pay to have the dealer look at the problem? That's b.s. If your car is under warranty, the cost is their problem not yours. My shop foreman got a little irritated with me and said, "what do you think the problem is and what do you want us to do? Replace your clutch?" I said, "I just want it fixed. I don't care if you have to perform voodoo on it--just fix it the way it's supposed to be." So, they are.


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## webguy330i (Jan 9, 2002)

I've had the clutch pop problem ever since I got about 2k miles on the car. I told my dealer service manager about it way back in the day, so hopefully when I bring it in for the 30k inspection they'll also be able to take a look at it.

The only thing I'm concerned about is that the TSB doesn't cover my car, being a 5/01 production. The problem is, however, extremely easy to duplicate... just park the car overnight and there you have it. It's worse and worse as the nights get cooler, so my inspection (which I'm projecting will be right around Jan-Feb 2003) should land me a good time slot to get it checked out.

I'll try to revisit this thread when the time comes, or post a new one about the experience. I hope anyone who gets any work done for this problem lets us know how it turned out! This is the worst thing about the car and unfortunately detracts from the driving pleasure quite a bit (which is otherwise awesome).


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## 10chi (Jan 11, 2002)

Kyle said:


> *My dealer would not replace anything until they could duplicate the problem. They supposedly never could. But, because of my persistance about the issue, they figured I've either got a mental disorder or there really is an issue. That's when they turned it over to a couple of techs from BMW of North America. One of them even admitted his own 3 has a "weird" feel to the clutch. I told them that this is a widespread problem and that they should check out forums like this for proof.
> 
> My dealer is going to replace the clutch assembly, but they are going to open the old one to see what's going on in there. My clutch is going to be the test subject I guess.
> 
> A couple of you said you had to pay to have the dealer look at the problem? That's b.s. If your car is under warranty, the cost is their problem not yours. My shop foreman got a little irritated with me and said, "what do you think the problem is and what do you want us to do? Replace your clutch?" I said, "I just want it fixed. I don't care if you have to perform voodoo on it--just fix it the way it's supposed to be." So, they are. *


Well the dealer said that they would take a look at it no problem there. However, they will enclose a bill for $700-800 for diagnosing the problem


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## Kyle (Jul 23, 2002)

I got my car back today and it drives like it did the day I fell in love with it. My dealer didn't replace my whole clutch like they originally said. Just the throwout bearing. They said it had gotten a "jagged" and "rough" surface probably due to execessive heat. My clutch plates and the such all looked fine.

Hopefully, this is the end of my clutch problems (knock on wood). So, to everyone else out there having this same issue, get them to replace the throwout bearing. Everyone I talked to (Roundel magazine, CCA members, and other mechanics) said this was probably the reason for the problem from the start. But because of the time and expense of getting to it, no one would go there.

Now, I just hope my tranny got put back together correctly.:eeps:


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## bluskye (Jul 24, 2002)

If they replaced it with the orignal, but a newer throw out bearing, the solution may be only temporary. After all, the original one was the one that gave you problems.

They must redesign the clutch system.


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## Kyle (Jul 23, 2002)

If that is the case, then maybe by the time it goes bad again BMW will have found a solution and issue a recall on the clutch.


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## bluskye (Jul 24, 2002)

Hopefully they find the real source of the problem, something else maybe causing the throwout bearing to prematurely be wearing out like that. If they can just fix the source of the problem, a recall wont be neccesary. 

Simply replacing a part is not a solution, unless it is a new design on the part.

And, hopefully, they find the problem before my service warranty ends =). I got the same problem.

Maybe this is the next problem BMW is tackling, it was the one of the top problems next to sticky gas pedal, and they just fixed that . . .. hopefully the guys at sachs and bmw are working on this now.


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## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

Ok, just got my car back after a week in the shop. The purpose of this service visit was to get the sticky pedal fix applied and to have them look at the clutch, as well as a few other things. 

Now, I waited nearly 8 weeks for the pedal part to arrive, up to the date of the appointment. So a week to get my car back wasn't so bad by comparison...but the wait was worth it (besides, the 325i loaner was an interesting change).

I got the new pedal, but I didn't have a chance to get a good feel of it since I drove home in rush hour traffic. But first impression is that it does feel smoother and more responsive to slight throttle changes.

The biggest improvement was the clutch. Turns out they replaced the throw out bearing. I was a little ambivalent about this since I heard changing the bearing sometimes has negative results. Instead, the outcome is a very fluid, smooth clutch, free of shudder.

Incredibly, they were able to find the rattle/buzz in the door, and eliminated it with tape and gummi phlage.

Lastly, got the oil changed and some new wipers. Only charge was for the oil change (non-scheduled).

So, a VERY productive service visit. The next few days, I'll get a better feel for the how the clutch and pedal hold up, long term. But for now, I'm content. :thumbup:


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

i'm about to buy a 03 325Ci with manual and this is causing me to pause..

is this for older e46's or for the new ones as well? i see some of you with 02's seem to have problems with the clutch as well, did your car have an early 02 build date or late?

is this a COMMON problem? are there anyone on this board who is not having any problems with their clutch? i wonder if they fixed it for the 03 model year...


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