# FA Changes required for NBT Retrofit



## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Hi Guys,

I wondered if anyone had a chassis no. or FA so I could note the changes required for the NBT retrofit?
I presume it would require the addition of 6NL & the removal of 633, 6FL, 6NF, 6VA & 6VC.
609 & 6NR would remain & the build date be changed to 09/12


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I wondered if anyone had a chassis no. or FA so I could note the changes required for the NBT retrofit?
> I presume it would require the addition of 6NL & the removal of 633, 6FL, 6NF, 6VA & 6VC.
> 609 & 6NR would remain & the build date be changed to 09/12


633 (or 639 in the U.S./CND), 6FL, and 6VC are gone, apparently all replaced by 6NL by itself.

6VA is a weird one though. My understanding is that with factory CIC, it is normally not required in the VO, and is used only in instances where CIC is replaced or retrofitted to force recognition of the Head Unit for coding. So, this would normally not be in either CIC or NBT VO's, but if you retrofit NBT it may be required.

609 and 6NR remain, but so does 6NF as that is not standard equipment on NBT equipped cars.

I will PM you a VIN for a U.S. equipped 2013 535i with NBT.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Cheers Shawn,

It is a strange one with 6VA as my 06/12 build has 609 from factory but also has 6VA in the FA.
From looking into ETK it seems the 6VA option maybe used during crossover build dates just like 6VB was used in the e60 between 09/08 & 11/08 when UK cars had the new ZBE but retained the CCC until 11/08.

Weird thing is when I adapted my FA & changed the date to 07/12 esys still showed HU_CIC & CMB_MEDIA instead f replacing them with HU_NBT!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Cheers Shawn,
> 
> It is a strange one with 6VA as my 06/12 build has 609 from factory but also has 6VA in the FA.
> From looking into ETK it seems the 6VA option maybe used during crossover build dates just like 6VB was used in the e60 between 09/08 & 11/08 when UK cars had the new ZBE but retained the CCC until 11/08.
> ...


Yes, as I wrote, 6VA is a weird one. It is not in my 10/10 build F10, so I don't know. :dunno:

In E-Sys, you are changing Zeitkriterium=0712 and not the Datum field I take it.

Now, I do not think FA in E-Sys is Dynamic at all, in that changing your production date and an Option Code that it will automatically remove unnecessary Option Codes or add other Dependant Option Codes. What I would expect though is that when you try and calculate FP with an incompatible Option Code, FP will error out.

When you say E-Sys still showed CIC, I assume that since the VO does not specify actual ECU's, your are referring to your SVT. This I would expect as the SVT is reading your actual ECU's on the MOST Bus, and for that you have CIC still, correct? If a new Head Unit was connected, only then would I expect to see NBT in your SVT. I would also expect that if you tried to VO Code HU_CIC with a VO Prodcution date of 07/12 that it would error out as that should not be a compatible ECU for that Prodcution Date.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Yes, it is the time criteria date I changed, you would hope the esys was dynamic so it knows which ecus should be installed based on VO & Build date as this was a basic part of NCSEXPERT.
I am using an FA.xml file I saved when I connected to the car & trying to edit it away from the car, you would think when you calculate the FP that would be when esys compares the data & lists the correct ecu's

I have pm'd you my FA


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Yes, it is the time criteria date I changed, you would hope the esys was dynamic so it knows which ecus should be installed based on VO & Build date as this was a basic part of NCSEXPERT.
> I am using an FA.xml file I saved when I connected to the car & trying to edit it away from the car, you would think when you calculate the FP that would be when esys compares the data & lists the correct ecu's
> 
> I have pm'd you my FA


Yes, I think when you calculate FP, it will give you an error if the options and or date have some sort of incompatibility, but it won't automatically reconfigure your FA for you.

If you are not connected to your car, then what do you mean it still shows HU_CIC? FA will only show 609 Navigation, but it won't show the actual ECU.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Sorry, I was reading my stored SVT which will obviously show the ECU's it has read from the VCM.
So unlike NCS where it lists the correct ecu's based on build date & options you list in the FA, in esys do you have to manually add them via SVT-Editor if you cannot read them from the car I wonder?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Sorry, I was reading my stored SVT which will obviously show the ECU's it has read from the VCM.
> So unlike NCS where it lists the correct ecu's based on build date & options you list in the FA, in esys do you have to manually add them via SVT-Editor if you cannot read them from the car I wonder?


I have never used NCS Expert, so I do not know what it shows.

In E-Sys, when you read VCM, it will poll the busses, and show the actual ECU's on the car. If you were to remove HU_CIC and connect HU_NBT, and re-read VCM, you would then see NBT in place of CIC, and it would likely show no CAFD until you add one and code the module.

While it may be possible with E-Sys, I do not know of any way to change the VO Option Codes and / or Date, and have it show required ECU's to support that VO.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

As soon as the NBT arrives I will connect it & then read the VCM, I'm just looking for the new cables to run from the USB & cradle to get upto the NBT & prepping a cable to extend all the combox pins upto the NBT (mic, SOS etc)


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thinking about it, I wonder if there are any coding options to allow the use of Combox with NBT ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> As soon as the NBT arrives I will connect it & then read the VCM, I'm just looking for the new cables to run from the USB & cradle to get upto the NBT & prepping a cable to extend all the combox pins upto the NBT (mic, SOS etc)


Now I am confused. The connections on the back of NBT are the same as CIC, although with some additional ones added. If you swap NBT for CIC, why do you need different cables from 6NF to NBT?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Thinking about it, I wonder if there are any coding options to allow the use of Combox with NBT ?


On F30 cars with 6NL and no NBT, it seems 6VC is no longer a separate option on the VO; however, those cars physically still have a Combox unit.

With NBT, I think the Combox unit is physically built into the NBT Head Unit, so you will have a Combox no matter what with NBT.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Yes, with the combox being built into the NBT, the USB cables & aux audio & video wires which are currently running to the combox in the trunk will now connect at the NBT, also the mic wires & data links to the ACSM for SOS will also need to go up to the NBT.
If you look at the attached pic you will see there are now 5 HSD ports (USB Port, 6NF Cradle, CID, USB in Glovebox, Ethernet) & an extra fakra for the Bluetooth antenna.
I am waiting on my ISTA 2.48 HDD so I can check the diagrams to confirm.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thats what I think that extra plug is above the main plug


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Yes, with the combox being built into the NBT, the USB cables & aux audio & video wires which are currently running to the combox in the trunk will now connect at the NBT, also the mic wires & data links to the ACSM for SOS will also need to go up to the NBT.
> If you look at the attached pic you will see there are now 5 HSD ports (USB Port, 6NF Cradle, CID, USB in Glovebox, Ethernet) & an extra fakra for the Bluetooth antenna.
> I am waiting on my ISTA 2.48 HDD so I can check the diagrams to confirm.


Yes, the NBT Connections are this:

HSD Connections:

Purple = APIX Connector for CID
Light Green = USB3 for Telematics Control Box (TCB)
Curry = USB2 for 6NF Base Plate
Beige = USB1 for 6FL Aux-In USB
Orange = Ethernet for RSE

* NBT has no Glovebox USB data port. The USB Port in the Center Armrest now does data too.

FAKRA Connections:

Beige = Bluetooth Arial
Burgandy = WLAN Arial
Curry = DAB Band 3
Green = DAB Band L
White = FM2
Black = AM / FM1
Blue = GPS Arial


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Thats what I think that extra plug is above the main plug


The extra plug above the main plug are FBAS 3 and FBAS 4 inputs for extra Video.

Right below that at the top of the main connector are inputs for Speakers and Telephone Mute.

Then below that on the main connector are inputs for Microphone 1, Microphone 2, Aux In, FBAS 1, and FBAS 2.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks bud, do you have the pinouts for the small plug at the top? 
If the telematic functions are now carried out by a TCB module then the cabling from the existing Combox telematics will have to be routed to the TCB.
Also I will need to find out where the mic wires run to!

I wonder if BIMMER-TECH or BIMMERRETROFIT are designing an emulator to allow the use of original Combox with NBT rather than having to re-cable everything & buy a TCB as well?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> Thanks bud, do you have the pinouts for the small plug at the top?
> If the telematic functions are now carried out by a TCB module then the cabling from the existing Combox telematics will have to be routed to the TCB.
> Also I will need to find out where the mic wires run to!
> 
> I wonder if BIMMER-TECH or BIMMERRETROFIT are designing an emulator to allow the use of original Combox with NBT rather than having to re-cable everything & buy a TCB as well?


I'm sorry, but I don't have any of the actual schematics or a pinout list. I think in most cases, the Top Connection wont be used, unless maybe you have all the Cameras, (Rear / Top & Side, and Night Vision), plus 6NF/6NR and DVD.

I don't know what the Pro Retrofitters will do with regard to an existing Combox. If they made use of it, I don't think it would be an emulator, rather just some plug and play harness, but this would require disabling the built-in NBT Combox, which I doubt is possible.

I know they are offering an Emulator, same as they do for CIC retrofits, for Navigation and Voice Recognition, but still I assume with the emulator you have to buy all new FSC Codes for other functions such as BMW Apps, Sat Radio, Night Vision, Speed Limit Information, etc.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

What they did with the e70 was to build a unit that converted the messages from the pdc & camera modules (these where changed when CIC was introduced) to what the CIC expected to see, otherwise it would require a new RFK & JBE.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

mcrussell said:


> What they did with the e70 was to build a unit that converted the messages from the pdc & camera modules (these where changed when CIC was introduced) to what the CIC expected to see, otherwise it would require a new RFK & JBE.


Interesting. I had not heard of that.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Yes, the NBT Connections are this:
> 
> HSD Connections:
> 
> ...


Hi, I just upgraded NBT for my F30.
Problem is now I can not use USB data port in Armrest box.
The white cable can not fit to Beige port





I try to cut some egde around white jack and I can fit to Beige port, but USB data still not avaiable...


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> Hi, I just upgraded NBT for my F30.
> Problem is now I can not use USB data port in Armrest box.
> The white cable can not fit to Beige port
> 
> ...


You are trying it in the beige HSD connector #12, and not the beige Fakra connector #15, correct?









If you upgraded from CIC Unit, the HSD Connector is identical as the old connector #2:









If you updated from HU_Champ, then I don't know what type connector you have in your car, although I would be surprised if it wasn't also HSD.

In any event, you need to get a good connection to the car. If you were able to modify the White connector to fit and make a good connection, and USB Port does not work, I am not sure why.

Do you still have 6FL in your VO?


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You are trying it in the beige HSD connector #12, and not the beige Fakra connector #15, correct?
> 
> View attachment 395340
> 
> ...


Yes, I connected to connector no 12. 
This is my original HU

What is 6FL?
Thanks


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> Yes, I connected to connector no 12.
> This is my original HU
> 
> What is 6FL?
> Thanks


Damn. That looks like it should mate right up. :dunno:

6FL is the VO Option Code for Center Armrest USB/AUX in Port.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Damn. That looks like it should mate right up. :dunno:
> 
> 6FL is the VO Option Code for Center Armrest USB/AUX in Port.


I called the seller and he confirm coding today. Hope it work after coding.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> I called the seller and he confirm coding today. Hope it work after coding.


What did he say was needed as far as the coding goes?

Any changes to the VO Options or build date?


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm really interested in this. Please do post details upon successful retrofit.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> I'm really interested in this. Please do post details upon successful retrofit.


FYI

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720305


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

sam-and-dori said:


> FYI
> 
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720305


Thanks. Did you buy different cable? Flashing and/or coding needed? Was it a new NBT or used?


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> Thanks. Did you buy different cable? Flashing and/or coding needed? Was it a new NBT or used?


It was used Unit. The cable is previous CIC cable.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I thought you had the basic, and not CIC? The thread you linked shows a base, not a CIC HU. Of course, I could be mistaken


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> I thought you had the basic, and not CIC? The thread you linked shows a base, not a CIC HU. Of course, I could be mistaken


Yes, it is basic HU.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Ok, that's what i thought. Please keep this thread updated. Thanks


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

You need to shave the white connector to make it fit, and rewire the old connector as follows:









You need to remove from VO 606, 6VC, 6FL, and 6NH if you have any of them, and make sure you have 609, 6NK or 6NL and a build date of >= 0712, and then VO Code HU_NBT and Kombi.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You need to shave the white connector to make it fit, and rewire the old connector as follows:
> 
> View attachment 395500
> 
> ...


How do I know VO 606, 6VC, 6FL and how can I remove? Please show me. Thanks


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> How do I know VO 606, 6VC, 6FL and how can I remove? Please show me. Thanks


E-Sys - How to change FA in F-series car:

http://rapidshare.com/files/3201826827/E-Sys - How to change FA in F-series car.pdf


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Looks like the NBT connection is a mirror image of the USB. It may be easier to just cut and rewire. Is this type of connector sold somewhere else? Maybe there's an adapter available

Any flashing required? VIN update/replacement?


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You need to shave the white connector to make it fit, and rewire the old connector as follows:
> 
> View attachment 395500
> 
> ...


Regarding to you photo, if I rotate and connect usb to NBT, it is matching to each other, no need to modify the cable


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

No, it's a mirror image. If you rotate it, A and B will be on the right side


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

And you can't shaved without rewiring either, but you may be able to just rewire without shaving -IF it fits if you turn it around


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> Just make sure wires are properly isolated from each other. Get a USB cable (old mouse, KB, USB extension...etc) and cut that. Check the voltage across black and red wires. This should be about 5V. These are on the outer pins when you're looking directly at the USB plug. USB 1/2.0 only outputs a max of 500 mA, and at least for the PC, there seem to be a built-in protection


True, I'll use a space usb cable and test the wires before connecting a usb stick, I'll do it tonight when I arrive home from work.



sam-and-dori said:


> Please take the photo and post here:thumbup:


I will. I'll ask my dealer for the proper cable in the end, but as we are suffering here in Europe massive delays when ordering spares which are not locally stocked, in the meantime I will use the spliced cable if it works.


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

It was a busy week for me but finally got the time to try it, and it's working, so problem solved. Thanks again Shawn


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

Provinomico said:


> It was a busy week for me but finally got the time to try it, and it's working, so problem solved. Thanks again Shawn


Congrats, bro :thumbup:
Now please show some photo of your work, I will follow...


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Provinomico said:


> It was a busy week for me but finally got the time to try it, and it's working, so problem solved. Thanks again Shawn


:thumbup:


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

sam-and-dori said:


> Congrats, bro :thumbup:
> Now please show some photo of your work, I will follow...


It's very simple. I was fitting a gps antenna so I did it on the NBT side, could be done also on the armrest side (probably easier due to position/space).


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Provinomico said:


> It was a busy week for me but finally got the time to try it, and it's working, so problem solved. Thanks again Shawn





Provinomico said:


> It's very simple. I was fitting a gps antenna so I did it on the NBT side, could be done also on the armrest side (probably easier due to position/space).
> ...


For simplicity sake, it looks like from a wire color perspective, you can just **** the USB Cable, and then rewire it as follows:

BLUE => GREEN
GREEN => BLUE
RED => BLACK
BLACK => RED

Can you confirm that?


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

@provicomino: would you please email these photos via [email protected] Thanks


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Nice going so far. When you fitted the GPS antenna, did you have to replace the cable?


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> For simplicity sake, it looks like from a wire color perspective, you can just **** the USB Cable, and then rewire it as follows:
> 
> BLUE => GREEN
> GREEN => BLUE
> ...


That's right shawn, the colors to splice are red with black (5v&ground) and green with blue (data+&data-).

Knowing that, you could cut the cable on the armrest side, I had to do it on the NBT side to test each of the wires of the connector for continuity.


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> Nice going so far. When you fitted the GPS antenna, did you have to replace the cable?


If you mean the cable that goes to the roof fin, to go the OEM way, I didn't mess with it, might do it in the future. I have a cheap antennae that goes behind the dashboard, like this

http://www.ebay.es/itm/PEUGEOT-CITR..._DefaultDomain_186&hash=item3f1dea853f&_uhb=1

Right now the NBT is giving me some problems, it restarts every 2 to 10 minutes, and I can't get myself positioned on the map, but it's now antennae related, checking the service menu, it's sees 13 satellites right away and locks on the coordinates, but somehow, I'm in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. :dunno:


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Provinomico said:


> That's right shawn, the colors to splice are red with black (5v&ground) and green with blue (data+&data-).
> 
> Knowing that, you could cut the cable on the armrest side, I had to do it on the NBT side to test each of the wires of the connector for continuity.


Thanks for confirming it for everyone's benefit :thumbup:


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Provinomico said:


> If you mean the cable that goes to the roof fin, to go the OEM way, I didn't mess with it, might do it in the future. I have a cheap antennae that goes behind the dashboard, like this
> 
> http://www.ebay.es/itm/PEUGEOT-CITR..._DefaultDomain_186&hash=item3f1dea853f&_uhb=1
> 
> Right now the NBT is giving me some problems, it restarts every 2 to 10 minutes, and I can get myself positioned on the map, but it's now antennae related, checking the service menu, it's sees 13 satellites right away and locks on the coordinates, but somehow, I'm in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. :dunno:


So, the GPS antenna is separate from the radio then.

I've heard several stories about NBT restarting while in use. Maybe someone's selling the replaced units as used. As for the map, do you have the right map loaded for your location? At any rate, hope you figure it out sooner rather than later


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> So, the GPS antenna is separate from the radio then.
> 
> I've heard several stories about NBT restarting while in use. Maybe someone's selling the replaced units as used. As for the map, do you have the right map loaded for your location? At any rate, hope you figure it out sooner rather than later


I hope it's not hw related, the unit was used indeed, it came from a serie 3 wagon. I have not checked for fault codes yet, I will spend the day tomorrow trying to troubleshoot it.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

@provinomico:NBT restared every minutes before or after you rewired usb cable? Did you use it normally before?


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

sam-and-dori said:


> @provinomico:NBT restared every minutes before or after you rewired usb cable? Did you use it normally before?


Hi Sam, don't worry, the restarts are not related to the USB rewire, I had them before.

In fact, the first day when I fitted the unit and took the car for a drive, it did like 6-8 quick restarts (returning to the same screen/menu it was before), and the next one was 'cold' restart (ie. everything switches off, screen/hard drive..., and after booting, loads the main menu) and it stopped there. The next day it run fine, but ever since I've been having this restarts from time to time. Either it's coding related, or the HU is in bad shape.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I hope it's just a software issue.

@sam, are you getting the same problem?


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

TokenMaster said:


> I hope it's just a software issue.
> 
> @sam, are you getting the same problem?


I have the problem with USB and will follow that way to rewire. But my NBT working ok without restart every minute.


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

sam-and-dori said:


> I have the problem with USB and will follow that way to rewire. But my NBT working ok without restart every minute.


I will code it to VO and start from scratch, maybe it was something i did when changing it from a serie3 wagon to a serie1, but it started rebooting just after I fitted it, without coding anything.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

Provinomico said:


> I will code it to VO and start from scratch, maybe it was something i did when changing it from a serie3 wagon to a serie1, but it started rebooting just after I fitted it, without coding anything.


Maybe you bought a fault NBT set. Did you contact the seller for comlain?


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

Yeah I did, he thinks it's the pnp emu, we will try another one when we can meet. But as times passes I believe it's the HU itself. I just connected back the prof radio for some time and it was fine. The NBT does those weird things with and without the emu attached.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

So, this requires an emulator? Or is the emulator only needed for map/GPS functionality? And where did you install the emulator? Does it sit between the harness and the NBT?


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

The emulator (or whatever it's called) is needed to bypass the canbus signal and tell the NBT when it checks the car's VIN that it is OK (ie, the same that's stored on the NBT). As the activation FSC codes are VIN related, without the emulator, when the NBT checks the car's VIN and discovers it doesn't match the FSCs codes loaded, it deactivated the nav and speech control options.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

Provinomico said:


> The emulator (or whatever it's called) is needed to bypass the canbus signal and tell the NBT when it checks the car's VIN that it is OK (ie, the same that's stored on the NBT). As the activation FSC codes are VIN related, without the emulator, when the NBT checks the car's VIN and discovers it doesn't match the FSCs codes loaded, it deactivated the nav and speech control options.


Thats why I can not use Navi and Voice control because I'm in Vietnam. When I bought the NBT, the seller ask my Vin number and coding before ship.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

So, is it confirmed NBT WILL work without flashing and without emulator (except navigation)? And if we want to use or enable Navigation, then hardware emulator or proper map FSC is needed, correct? 

For activating FSC though, I wonder if it will use the car's short VIN or that of the NBT. Hmn


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

TokenMaster said:


> So, is it confirmed NBT WILL work without flashing and without emulator (except navigation)? And if we want to use or enable Navigation, then hardware emulator or proper map FSC is needed, correct?
> 
> For activating FSC though, I wonder if it will use the car's short VIN or that of the NBT. Hmn


For activation, the FSC Code in VIN is always used, which either matches the car vin, or an Activation Module must be used.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Ok, so Navigation will check against the car's VIN, not that of HU. I know the short VIN is used somehow in activating and installing the software and map, but I wasn't sure if any issue arises by having non-matching VINs between the car and HU. Thanks.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

TokenMaster said:


> Ok, so Navigation will check against the car's VIN, not that of HU. I know the short VIN is used somehow in activating and installing the software and map, but I wasn't sure if any issue arises by having non-matching VINs between the car and HU. Thanks.


No. The Head Unit must have an Activated FSC Code. The only way to activate an FSC Code in the Head Unit is if the FSC Code VIN matches the Head Unit VIN. Beyond that, if the Car VIN matches the Head Unit / FSC Code VIN, then you are good to go. If not, you need an activation module, which will fool CAS into thinking the two mismatched VIN's actually are a match.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> No. The Head Unit must have an Activated FSC Code. The only way to activate an FSC Code in the Head Unit is if the FSC Code VIN matches the Head Unit VIN. Beyond that, if the Car VIN matches the Head Unit / FSC Code VIN, then you are good to go. If not, you need an activation module, which will fool CAS into thinking the two mismatched VIN's actually are a match.


So complicated 
Now my HU matches Car Vin, it reconize my car in Vietnam, so would I need activation module to us Navi, BMW app...in Vietnam? Actiavtion module is a hard ware or just flashing code?


----------



## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> So complicated
> Now my HU matches Car Vin, it reconize my car in Vietnam, so would I need activation module to us Navi, BMW app...in Vietnam? Actiavtion module is a hard ware or just flashing code?


The activation module is a piece of Hardware that lies to the CAS Module telling it your Head Unit VIN matches the CAR VIN. If these already match, then you have no use for it.

With retrofit of used Head Unit, there are two options.

Option 1 is to keep the used Head Unit with Donor VIN in it and matching FSC Codes, and use the activation module to lie to CAS Module that this VIN matches the Car VIN. This is less expensive option, but not the OEM way.

Option 2 is to flash the Head Unit and write the car's real VIN to it, but then you have to buy all new FSC Codes and Import and Activate them in the Head Unit. This is more expensive, but is the OEM way.


----------



## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

Do I need to buy new FSC Codes while navi still unavaiable in Vietnam? FSC codes is coding or hardware?
When I bought the NBT, the seller added my Vin into it, is it my fault?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> Do I need to buy new FSC Codes while navi still unavaiable in Vietnam? FSC codes is coding or hardware?
> When I bought the NBT, the seller added my Vin into it, is it my fault?


You need FSC Codes depending on what features are both available, and desired by you.

If you want Navigation then you need a Navigation Application FSC Code, a Navigation Enabler FSC Code, and a Map FSC Code (plus the maps loaded on hard drive). If you want Voice Control, there is an FSC Code required for that too. If you want BMW Apps, you need a another FSC Code. Etc.

If you don't want any of that, then you don't need any FSC Codes.


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## sam-and-dori (Aug 16, 2013)

BMW not support Vietnam map, and Voice control doest have Vietnamese 
I just want to use BMW app, facebook, browse internet. What kind of FSC I need, Shawn?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

sam-and-dori said:


> BMW not support Vietnam map, and Voice control doest have Vietnamese
> I just want to use BMW app, facebook, browse internet. What kind of FSC I need, Shawn?


For 6NR BMW Apps, you need a 9C FSC Code Imported and Activated in NBT. If you do not have 6NR from the factory though, your 6FL Center Armrest USB Port will not have FBAS Video connection to the Head Unit though, so you would not get Video and iPod Out GUI.

For Internet, there is no FSC Code required, but actually getting it working is often more art than science.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Option 1 is to keep the used Head Unit with Donor VIN in it and matching FSC Codes, and use the activation module to lie to CAS Module that this VIN matches the Car VIN. This is less expensive option, but not the OEM way.
> 
> Option 2 is to flash the Head Unit and write the car's real VIN to it, but then you have to buy all new FSC Codes and Import and Activate them in the Head Unit. This is more expensive, but is the OEM way.


For option 1, I supposed the Map upgrade/activation code (map short FSC, not 1B) must use the HU/Donor VIN. While cheaper, this could lead to more trouble in the end


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

TokenMaster said:


> For option 1, I supposed the Map upgrade/activation code (map short FSC, not 1B) must use the HU/Donor VIN. While cheaper, this could lead to more trouble in the end


Yes, the Map FSC Code will be based on the donor 1B file, but it is no issue at all.


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## sbc55 (Jun 24, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> For Internet, there is no FSC Code required, but actually getting it working is often more art than science.


How true is this, I have practically enabled most of the features for my retrofit NBT, only the internet is not working ....


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

@sam-and-dori -I can see you're using basic Kombi. What did you do with the MOST bus? Was it properly terminated (with a looped Toslink) or did you leave it open/without any cable inserted?


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## ricarpa (Sep 10, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You need to shave the white connector to make it fit, and rewire the old connector as follows:
> 
> View attachment 395500
> 
> ...


As I can see a build date in FA and how I can modify it to make VO after HU_NBT Code and Kombi?

Thanks


----------



## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

vo hu_nbt, that i can understand, what's the purpose of vo kombi? sorry for my ignorance.


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## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> For 6NR BMW Apps, you need a 9C FSC Code Imported and Activated in NBT. If you do not have 6NR from the factory though, your 6FL Center Armrest USB Port will not have FBAS Video connection to the Head Unit though, so you would not get Video and iPod Out GUI.
> 
> For Internet, there is no FSC Code required, but actually getting it working is often more art than science.


will the center armrest usb be connected to curry or beige HSD connector of nbt? also which one should it connect to for the glove box usb? i plan to add a glove box usb. is it necessary?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> vo hu_nbt, that i can understand, what's the purpose of vo kombi? sorry for my ignorance.


The Instrument Cluster and the Head Unit are intertwined. Each one has to know which type the other is. Anytime you change one out, you need to update the VO accordingly and VO Code both ECU's so that each one reflects the current installed hardware.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> will the center armrest usb be connected to curry or beige HSD connector of nbt? also which one should it connect to for the glove box usb? i plan to add a glove box usb. is it necessary?


Beige, as I wrote in post # 15:

Curry = USB2 for 6NF Base Plate
Beige = USB1 for 6FL Aux-In USB

You can not add a Glovebox USB Port for NBT. The one 6FL connector supports data, whereas on CIC, only the Glovebox USB Port supported data.


----------



## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ricarpa said:


> As I can see a build date in FA and how I can modify it to make VO after HU_NBT Code and Kombi?
> 
> Thanks


Right-Click on Zeitkriterium field and select Edit:


----------



## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Beige, as I wrote in post # 15:
> 
> Curry = USB2 for 6NF Base Plate
> Beige = USB1 for 6FL Aux-In USB
> ...


tks Shwan. mine is 0713 with 6NH. no base plate. with NBT retrofit, will code 6NH into 6NS. still no base plate. is it in this case, USB1 [beige] is for 6NS Aux-IN USB? and i can connect the curry USB2 for glovebox USB?


----------



## ricarpa (Sep 10, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Right-Click on Zeitkriterium field and select Edit:
> 
> View attachment 402803


Thanks

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> tks Shwan. mine is 0713 with 6NH. no base plate. with NBT retrofit, will code 6NH into 6NS. still no base plate. is it in this case, USB1 [beige] is for 6NS Aux-IN USB? and i can connect the curry USB2 for glovebox USB?


Yes, 6NS would use the USB1 6FL USB/Aux-In Connector.

USB 2 though is supposed to be for 6NF Base Plate connection. I have no idea if you will be able to plumb it into the Glovebox and use it as a regular selectable USB input from the Head Unit.


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## ricarpa (Sep 10, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You need to shave the white connector to make it fit, and rewire the old connector as follows:
> 
> View attachment 395500
> 
> ...


Hi there any way to buy those connectors to the cable without cutting? or what would be the reference of the cable would be worth our connection to our BMW f20 usb work?

thanks


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## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> The activation module is a piece of Hardware that lies to the CAS Module telling it your Head Unit VIN matches the CAR VIN. If these already match, then you have no use for it.
> 
> With retrofit of used Head Unit, there are two options.
> 
> ...


My vendor must have performed option 1. Afterwards, I tried to delete one VO - 8LH and coded all ECUs, then Navigation started to ask for FSC. What's the logic behind this? because my VIN was coded into HU_NBT during coding all ECUs? What's the remedy now? and What are the proper procedures to keep the donor's VIN in NBT during VO coding?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> My vendor must have performed option 1. Afterwards, I tried to delete one VO - 8LH and coded all ECUs, then Navigation started to ask for FSC. What's the logic behind this? because my VIN was coded into HU_NBT during coding all ECUs? What's the remedy now? and What are the proper procedures to keep the donor's VIN in NBT during VO coding?


When you code you ECU, it does not write Car VIN to module. Your Head Unit still has Donor VIN.

You removed the Hong Kong country controller though, and that has caused a problem. Add it back in and VO Code HU_NBT, and see if FSC problem goes away.


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

izen said:


> My vendor must have performed option 1. Afterwards, I tried to delete one VO - 8LH and coded all ECUs, then Navigation started to ask for FSC. What's the logic behind this? because my VIN was coded into HU_NBT during coding all ECUs? What's the remedy now? and What are the proper procedures to keep the donor's VIN in NBT during VO coding?


Wouldn't you mean you updated all the ECUs? because you don't normally "code all the ECUs" (what would you need to code in each and every one of the ECUs?), but you can update all the ECUs e-Sys detects that are not running up-to-date sw.

If that'd be the case (shawn will confirm it), then the your car's VIN might have been transferred to the NBT, invalidating the FSC codes loaded, which are the donor's car. That's one of the things that's keeping me from updating the NBT.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Provinomico said:


> Wouldn't you mean you updated all the ECUs? because you don't normally "code all the ECUs" (what would you need to code in each and every one of the ECUs?), but you can update all the ECUs e-Sys detects that are not running up-to-date sw.
> 
> If that'd be the case (shawn will confirm it), then the your car's VIN might have been transferred to the NBT, invalidating the FSC codes loaded, which are the donor's car. That's one of the things that's keeping me from updating the NBT.


If he flashed ECU, then VIN is written, but not during normal coding.


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## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

Provinomico said:


> Wouldn't you mean you updated all the ECUs? because you don't normally "code all the ECUs" (what would you need to code in each and every one of the ECUs?), but you can update all the ECUs e-Sys detects that are not running up-to-date sw.
> 
> If that'd be the case (shawn will confirm it), then the your car's VIN might have been transferred to the NBT, invalidating the FSC codes loaded, which are the donor's car. That's one of the things that's keeping me from updating the NBT.


Shawn was very correct. added back 8LH and FSC problem goes away. Navi is back!

I attempted to delete 8LH because it does not allow album cover to show up. That's one of the restriction of country control Hong Kong. I coded all ECU because I do not know what ECUs it would affect.

btw, what's step to change VIN in a particular ECU?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> Shawn was very correct. added back 8LH and FSC problem goes away. Navi is back!
> 
> I attempted to delete 8LH because it does not allow album cover to show up. That's one of the restriction of country control Hong Kong. I coded all ECU because I do not know what ECUs it would affect.
> 
> btw, what's step to change VIN in a particular ECU?


Flash ECU firmware.


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## Provinomico (Aug 4, 2013)

ricarpa said:


> Hi there any way to buy those connectors to the cable without cutting? or what would be the reference of the cable would be worth our connection to our BMW f20 usb work?
> 
> thanks


ricarpa, you can just buy the original NBT to armrest USB cable, I had my dealer order it but it was going to take ages to arrive from Germany, so I just went and try to cut&splice the one from the professional radio.

If you don't want to mess with the car's, you can do it on an USB extension cable.


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## ricarpa (Sep 10, 2013)

Provinomico said:


> ricarpa, you can just buy the original NBT to armrest USB cable, I had my dealer order it but it was going to take ages to arrive from Germany, so I just went and try to cut&splice the one from the professional radio.
> 
> If you don't want to mess with the car's, you can do it on an USB extension cable.


Hi you could tell me the reference to order directly. In my workshop BMW do not know that I speak and not bother to look.

thanks


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## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Flash ECU firmware.


I did the following:- 1. change VO in FA editor, calculate FP and save. 2 in VCM - load saved FA.xml, calculate FP and "Write FA FP". 3. in Coding, Activate FA, Read VCM, highlight all ECUs and code all.

. above are coding only as I believe

. What's purpose of "write FA FP" in step 2?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/4LSWMb8jDRX04lG7HxRQgIuGX8a2UgqMi5J6erGHYP4?feat=directlink

. If I choose "update VIN" in VCM - VCM Master tab - FA FP VIN section as in the oval, will this change the VIN in VCM which can be used to code in step 3?

. How can I flash ECU firmware? what's purpose of doing so?

. with 8LH, Navi is ok. but vehicle information section is empty. Alumb art is not allowed.
. with 8LH removed, Navi asks for FSC, but vehicle information is back. Album art is allowed

. any means to change to another country control [e.g Germany, as the donor NBT shows +49xxxx telephone #s] or simply remove it but able to keep Navi, vehicle information and album art etc...?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> I did the following:- 1. change VO in FA editor, calculate FP and save. 2 in VCM - load saved FA.xml, calculate FP and "Write FA FP". 3. in Coding, Activate FA, Read VCM, highlight all ECUs and code all.
> 
> . above are coding only as I believe
> 
> ...


You "write FA FP" to update car with modified VO, and so when dealer programs / encodes the car, or you read FA from car for coding, it uses that VO.

"Update VIN" will write VIN to VCM, but I have never tested it, and I can't image a reason to do so.

Flashing puts new firmware on ECU, and is what dealer does with ISTA/P when they program your car. Flashing ECU is complicated, and you shouldn't be doing it without good reason. I mentioned it only as you asked how to change ECU VIN, and that is how you write new VIN to an ECU.

You can change Country Controllers, just by removing 8HL HK one from FA, and replacing it with another one. The Country Controllers codes though affect a great many things coded, so finding the perfect one may prove impossible. While it may solve one problem, it may create many others.

Is Album art blocked on factory equipped NBT systems in HK or this problem unique to your retrofit?


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## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You "write FA FP" to update car with modified VO, and so when dealer programs / encodes the car, or you read FA from car for coding, it uses that VO.
> 
> "Update VIN" will write VIN to VCM, but I have never tested it, and I can't image a reason to do so.
> 
> ...


Yes, my retrofit vendor restored to factory VOs after NBT retrofit completion. Do I still need to restore hardware before letting local dealer to program / encode?

My vendor once mentioned flashing something might bring back vehicle information [i.e. owner's manual etc] but is risky and time consuming. He decided not to do it.

No idea which component he would flash, NBT ECU or NBT? or are they the same? Is HU_ECU located inside NBT HU? sorry for noob questions.

Any other means to bring back owner's manual? as weired is the owner's manual is back when 8LH is removed, but then Navi won't work...

6NR was included in this retrofit package. Many features do not work, partly due to country control, partly due to no telematic service provider / agreement in HK.

Factory equipped NBT in HK blocks album arts, as confirmed by bmw HK. It must be controlled by 8LH. Quite an odd rule.

Is country control option a must? any vehicles that run without a one?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

izen said:


> Yes, my retrofit vendor restored to factory VOs after NBT retrofit completion. Do I still need to restore hardware before letting local dealer to program / encode?
> 
> My vendor once mentioned flashing something might bring back vehicle information [i.e. owner's manual etc] but is risky and time consuming. He decided not to do it.
> 
> ...


NBT is one of many ECU's, Electronic Control Units, in the car, thus NBT ECU and NBT are one in the same. There is no such thing as HU_ECU, rather it's HU_NBT.

I don't know of any way to bring the Manual back.

A country Controller is not mandatory.


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## izen (Jul 23, 2013)

tks Shawn. is NBT ECU part of the Head Unit, inside it or located outside?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

dipo71 said:


> Pdc button not work.
> How to flash it? With what product code and timestamp?


I don't understand your question.

Flash like any other ECU, but you will likely have to try various I-Step Shipment dates until it finds one it likes (HWEL Matches).


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> I don't understand your question.
> 
> Flash like any other ECU, but you will likely have to try various I-Step Shipment dates until it finds one it likes (HWEL Matches).


what Typschlussel and Zeitkriterium date i must install?


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

I think the question is how to flash if it's already in most recent version?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

dipo71 said:


> what Typschlussel and Zeitkriterium date i must install?


I would use car's actual Typschlussel and at least 0712 Zeitkriterium.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

remko said:


> I think the question is how to flash if it's already in most recent version?
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


What would be the point in that? Just to write VIN?


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

I guess to empty and reload vin


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## remko (Jun 18, 2014)

I mean: you cannot vo code zgw therefore I thought reflash?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

remko said:


> I mean: you cannot vo code zgw therefore I thought reflash?
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


If it already has latest firmware, I do not know what it would accomplish, except perhaps write VIN to it.

If you have old ZGW TAL, you could reuse it again, making sure the firmware files match current PSdZData version. Otherwise you would have to create a new TAL manually.


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

What difference with zgw 02 - 4sk and zgw 02 - 8sk?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

4sk is ZGW MID and 8SK is ZGW High. 8SK is needed for certain options like EDC, Park Assist, Lane Assist, and LED Headlights, and maybe others too.


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi guys.! 

First off i must say im a noob at this stuff but im hoping to learn from you guys that seems to know ALOT about these things. :thumbup:

As second i wish to apologize for my bad spelling and so on but my native language is Swedish. 

A couple of months ago i bought a 2012 F10 that only have the business system (small screen). Because i am a guy that appriciates technical things i wanted to upgrade from this very boring system to CIC. But as i read more about it i came upon information that you could upgrade to NBT.

I thought in the beginning that i only have to buy:

***********

The display

***********

The harddrive *sorry dont know the exact name)

***********

Display Cable

***********

Aftermarket GPS antenna

***********

A special cable as this for example

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plug-and-pl...S_Accessories_Software_ET&hash=item3ce0b41ee1

***********

USB Cable

***********

Remote coding Cable

***********

And find a guy to code it remotely

***********

I almost ordered a kit from Ebay with the screen, HDD and controller when i read this thread and its seems now a little more difficult :bawling:

Im now wondering if the step from business to NBT is a bigger step than i first thought and also i wonder if its easier if you already had cic professional in the car..? Maybe my car need more parts since its not CIC from the beginning..?

Also in this thread there is discussion about ZGW need to be replaced to get it to work and also that some versions of the HW is not going to work..?

If thats the case then which HW can i buy to get it to work..?

I googled for days for answers that was simple enough for us a little braindead but those threads i found was all hw07, hw21, nv6, zgw, ldw, lcw, sli, :rofl: im joking a little but my point is that its hard to understand sometimes. I think there is more like me that wants to learn and hope you guys can help me (us) and maybe write things with explanations to the shortened word:s. :thumbup:

I know this retrofit is complicated but i wish that there was a simple list of parts that is needed and if my dream came true there would be a DIY write up with pictures someday, atleast of the parts that had to be ordered and installed, and then the coding bit you had to fix yourself of maybe pay some guy to do it for you. :thumbup:

Thanks in advance to this great forum and im excited for your answers. :thumbup:


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

You do not want to update to CIC. Besides NBT being superior in many ways, Activation on CIC in pre 0712 F10 is via the MOST Bus, and MOST Activation Module is very expensive, around $450 USD.

For you to update to NBT is only slighty more difficult as you will need new ZGW-02 8SK, P/N 61359340521.

The NBT HW version is no longer an issue really. If you have NBT HW >= 10, you will need an Activation Module with built-in Gyro Sensor.


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Thanks Shawn for fast reply.!

You seem like a real pro.! I googled much about this and your name often pops up and you always help everyone and you solve alot of problems.! :thumbup:

So NBT is the way to go for me, thanks for advice and getting me on the right track. 

I will make a list of parts that i *think* will get me to a fully functional NBT in my car and i was hoping you could check my list so i know i´ll be getting the right parts and dont forget anything. =)

*****************************

NBT kit on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-F10-F11...76?pt=GPS_Devices&hash=item35dce255ac&vxp=mtr

And if i understand you correctly Shawn then the easiest way is to find a HW10 or numbers below that do not have a gyro problem and have to buy a special kind of emulator..? 
And the HW number is on a sticker on the front of the HW..?

*****************************

If the HW is the easier kind with built in gyro then will this emulator work..?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plug-and-...r-/261467938529?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

If not then please show me one that will work and also please link to that special kind with built in gyro sensor so i know the two different kinds i have to have.

*****************************

This ZGW i need as in your reply earlier.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/61359340521/ES2728455/

*****************************

Cable for remote coding and a pro guy *maybe you Shawn* to code all the stuff to work.

*****************************

And also i need small things like USB Cables and Gps antenna and CID Cable etc. These things im not so worried about because they are relatively easy to find and cheap.

*****************************

I emailed some with a guy at emtronika about NBT upgrade and he said that if the car was built Before 2012-07 i also might need new ICM module. Do you agree.? My car is built 2011-10.

Is what i wrote above correct for all parts needed when it comes to hardware..? I understand that there is quite alot of software to code but those things i dont really understand at this point *not yet* 

To get video in motion is that another hardware thing or is that something you just program via coding..?

Again Shawn, you are a great help and i appriciate your help very much..!

Best Regards 
Peter


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi again.

I read alot of forums now about the NBT retrofit and understand a bit more now. =)

So if i buy a NBT kit and a plug n play cable for navigation and voice command and also buy usb cables and usb port etc and GPS antenna and new ZGW and *maybe* ICM, i will then disconnect everything on combox thats located in the trunk and then re-route those cables from combox to the front of the car so i can then connect those on the back of the NBT headunit because the headunit has the combox built in..?

Also from what i have learned the last 4 hours of reading is that i only have to change the ICM if i buy a headunit thats HW10 or up and don´t find a activation module with built in gyro sensor. If i buy HW09 or numbers downwards in example HW08, HW07 then i DONT have to buy new ICM or find special activation module with built in gyro because HW09 and down have built in gyroscope..? Am i correct..?

I read about 12 pages of 37 on a F30 NBT retrofit thread here at Bimmerfest and now i dont know the ending of those guys problems and maybe then solved but they had problem to get the microphone to work. And also they talked about a MOST cable that i had trouble of understanding but these thing maybe arent an issue on F10..?

Im learning some at least and feel that im slowly coming on the right track. :thumbup:

A couple of days ago i thought that i just had to order NBT hardware and a plug n play adapter and some small things like GPS and USB cables and then get the things coded and everything would work fine but it seems a little more work than that, especially now if this combox thing has to come out and take seats out and deattach cables from harness to the back and then re-route them to the front and then change ZGW and maybe ICM. Make the USB connector to fit and then find an emulator that allows coding when its attached and maybe it has to have that gyro built in. 

But what the hell, i like a challenge and i like to read forums and learn. :thumbup:

Its now 2 o´clock in the morning here in Sweden and time to go to bed unfortunately. But tomorrow i will read more on the forums and also want to read these threads about coding.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6868737&postcount=1

If youre not an complete idiot and a kind of person that does everything carefully, then would it be a bad idea to try to code the car yourself.? 
Is it very hard to learn and also is it easy to make a wrong that will cause troubles that you cant fix afterwards or will cost 10.000$ to fix..?

What you think Shawn.? Do you believe in me..? :rofl:

Thanks again for this great forum and for your time and patience. =)


----------



## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

I think you have a good understanding of what is needed, and I am also sure you can do this job.


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Shawn, i hope you maybe later can find a little time to answer some of the questions in my last replys. I know that you have work to tend to now and you dont have the time but hope you can give a little more input on earlier questions and especially on the combox story and what i have to do there. I will when i slept some hours go out and try to find that combox in my car. I Think it should be on the left side of the trunk. I will check there first 

Goodnight.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Your questions all seem to be asking to validate an individual assumption, and I thought I did so already in my last post. All your assumptions are correct to the best of my knowledge.

As for Combox, you need to disconnect it, terminate the Most Port, and reroute everything (AUX, USB, GPS) to dash for direct connection to NBT.


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Okey Shawn. Im sorry. I thought you could answer some of my questions in my earlier comments like:

*****************************

NBT kit on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-F10-F11-...e255ac&vxp=mtr

And if i understand you correctly Shawn then the easiest way is to find a HW10 or numbers below that do not have a gyro problem and have 
to buy a special kind of emulator..? <-----question

And the HW number is on a sticker on the front of the HW..? <----- *question* 
*****************************

If the HW is the easier kind with built in gyro then will this emulator work..? <---- question

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Plug-and-p...:X:RTQ:GB:1123

If not then please show me one that will work and also please link to that special kind with built in gyro sensor so i know the two different kinds i have to have. <---- help requested

*****************************

I emailed some with a guy at emtronika about NBT upgrade and he said that if the car was built Before 2012-07 i also might need new ICM module. Do you agree.? <------- question My car is built 2011-10.

Is what i wrote above correct for all parts needed 
when it comes to hardware..? <----- question

To get video in motion is that another hardware thing or is that something you just program via coding..? <----- question

So if i buy a NBT kit and a plug n play cable for navigation and voice command and also buy usb cables and usb port etc and GPS antenna and new ZGW and *maybe* ICM, i will then disconnect everything on combox thats located in the trunk and then re-route those cables from combox to the front of the car so i can then connect those on the back of the NBT headunit because the headunit has the combox built in..? <----- question that was totally new info for me that i found on F30 forum and had to ask if it was the same procedure on F10.

I read about 12 pages of 37 on a F30 NBT retrofit thread here at Bimmerfest and now i dont know the ending of those guys problems and maybe then solved but they had problem to get the microphone to work. And also they talked about a MOST cable that i had trouble of understanding but these thing maybe arent an issue on F10..? <----- questions

The questions was important to me in this quest to better understand and i spent alot of time Writing my questions and i hoped you could maybe help me and im sorry that im a little new at this but this was your answer for all my questions that i was seeking information about.

"I think you have a good understanding of what is needed, and I am also sure you can do this job."

Sorry again for taking up your time and requested your help, im pretty sure i can do without it.. :thumbup:


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

Understand I am not an expert at all on NBT Retrofit. In fact, I still have factory CIC in my F10, although I am getting close to doing my own NBT Retrofit myself as soon as I can find the time. And understand also that there are many variables involved (chassis, build date, factory equipment / options etc.) whereby what may be needed for one car is not needed for another. That said, I will try and answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, which admittedly is limited:

1) I do no think it is any easier per se' to use NBT with HW <10 than it is you use Emulator / Activation Module with Gyro built in, since you have to use an Emulator / Activation Module no matter what, so it is no additional wiring. My preference though would be to use NBT with HW <10 only because it is OEM way and not a workaround.

2) Yes, NBT will have a sticker on it showing the HW Level like this:









Note the HW: 07.

3) The links you posted for both the NBT and the Emulator / Activation Module are no longer listed. That said, regardless of the listing, if the seller does not specifically state that the Emulator / Activation Module has built-in Gyro, then assume it does not have it.

4) I do not have a picture or website for Emulator / Activation Module with Gyro built in, but if you ended up needing one, contact Bimmerfest user neo_andersson:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/member.php?u=108401

5) I am not sure about ICM. There are only a few people I know who have done NBT retrofit in a pre 0712 build F10/F11. Most have not needed new ICM. There is one person I am talking with now that has a very early build F11, and he is having problems with ACC /LIM, LW, and FDS. It is not known yet what the solution is for him yet, but a new ICM is being considered.

6) The main hardware you will need:

NBT
Emulator / Activation Module (possibly with Gyro Sensor depending on NBT HW version)
CID
ZGW (ZGW-02 8SK)
ZBE (Optional if you want new iDrive Touch Controller)
TBX (Optional Handwriting Module if also retrofitting ZBE iDrive Touch Controller)
ICM (Possibly needed)

You will need some other miscellaneous items like a new CID Cable, Most Termination Loop, and simple wires and pins to add KCan2 connections.

You will have to add KCan2 wires from new ZGW to back of NBT.

You will need to add KCan2 wires for ZBE and TBX if also retrofitting them.

You will need to clip off the locking pin from the white HSD connector and rotate connection 180 degrees for USB Port to work.

7) Video In Motion is built into some Emulator / Activation Modules but it is not necessary as it can be easily coded.

8) NBT has a built in MEDIA Combox. As I wrote above, you will disconnect everything from the current Standalone Combox, terminate the Most Connection, and reroute all cables (Mic, Bluetooth Arial, AUX and USB) to the dash and connect directly to NBT. If your car has a Telematics Combox and not a Media Combox, you will loose Telematics functions. The only way to keep them would be to also retrofit a TCB module, and I am not even sure that it would work because of the new SIM Card in it.

9) I am not aware of any microphone issues. I believe in the F30 thread, Aritaurus first had an issue with his Mic, but that was before he rerouted it from his standalone Combox to NBT. Other people have had to add microphone from scratch if they originally had no factory Navigation at all, and some have added a second Passenger Microphone. In your car, since you are starting with 606 Business NAV, you should just have to reroute your existing Microphone.

10) The only MOST Bus issue you should have to deal with is Terminating the Most Connector on Combox. In some cases too, where the Amp is the older Hi-Fi Amp which is not on the MOST Bus and requires a 12V trigger (wakeup), it must be rewired straight to the fusebox as NBT only provides a 5V trigger. For F30 owners also retrofitting 6WA Kombi with their NBT, they have to add MOST connection to 6WA.


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## F10 Sweden (Sep 24, 2014)

Goodmorning. 

I was not expecting this Shawn.

I spent about 12 hours yesterday alone on this project to search for right parts and information. At the end when i spent hours and trying to learn and also ask you for help i was getting tired and i got a little cranky when i felt that i didnt get so much help from you. 
I got the feeling you were tired from all beginners like me that i can understand ask the same questions over and over again. But for me it feels better to have your thoughts confirmed by someone that is more expirienced than me on these kind of things.

Now i woke up and found a really dedicated answer to my every thougt.! :thumbup:

Im sorry for my *crankyness* and a big thank you for your great answer.! 

Now i have some more questions that came up after i read your reply. Im gonna paste your reply and highlight questions i have. :thumbup:

*****************************************

5) I am not sure about ICM. There are only a few people I know who have done NBT retrofit in a pre 0712 build F10/F11. Most have not needed new ICM. There is one person I am talking with now that has a very early build F11, and he is having problems with ACC /LIM, LW, and FDS. It is not known yet what the solution is for him yet, but a new ICM is being considered. Please help me understand what ACC, LIM, LW, and FDS are in the car just in a Little bit longer words, im gonna also try to google them and try to read more about them

6) The main hardware you will need:

NBT
Emulator / Activation Module (possibly with Gyro Sensor depending on NBT HW version)
CID

ZGW (ZGW-02 8SK) <---- When i install the new module, how many wires i have to get to the NBT..? Is there a schematic maybe to help me understand on which cable i have to route.?

ZBE (Optional if you want new iDrive Touch Controller) <--- If i like the design of the new controller but dont care right now about the touch interface, is it then possible to use the new controller and its just plug n play from old one..?

TBX (Optional Handwriting Module if also retrofitting ZBE iDrive Touch Controller)
ICM (Possibly needed)

You will need some other miscellaneous items like a new CID Cable, Most Termination Loop, and simple wires and pins to add KCan2 connections. <---- about the most termination loop, this is my new concern. If i understand correctly then this is a fiber optic cable that i have to buy a kind of loop thing for that sends the signal back where it came from.? I googled this and found a link in a thread that they said it was nr 7 on this chart. http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=FW11&mospid=52407&btnr=61_1578&hg=61&fg=15

But when you look at realoem chart there isnt any information about nr 7. Do you maybe have more information on part nr and maybe also where i can order one.? If i get that loop thing is it then just to plug in somehow.? Many questions about this but hope you can help me.

My car has the HU_entry and is pretty empty. I have though Bluetooth for phone so i have Microphone. Here is the seven last digits on my VIN number if maybe that tells something about my car that is good to know: C941276

And as said before Shawn, sorry for my cranky reply earlier and thank you for your help.!


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

F10 Sweden said:


> I was a bit worried about the new ZGW because that was installed when the shortcircuit happened and was worried it got fried before the fuse blew but i am happy to say that it survived.! :thumbup:


I'm happy to hear that man!!!
Finally some luck!!

I'm wondering what the problem with the time is? I've never heard that before! :S but once again.. There is still coding to be done!

Good luck!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

xooler said:


> You dont need to change your ZGW.
> I've retrofitted 2010 F10 530XD and NBT works without problem.
> You don't need to change anything in hardware to get it work.
> If you need help with flashing your old metal ZGW for NBT - P.M.


I am surprised to hear this. Everyone else I know that used old ZGW had problems.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

F10 Sweden said:


> ...Another thing i dont mention in the video is that the PDC has a new display and activates when i put in reverse but the sound isnt there when im near things but the colour that indicates objects on display works but when i put in first gear it usally shows the front of the cars but that doesnt work.
> ...


Have you also VO Coded PDC and TRSVC with updated VO?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> I am surprised to hear this. Everyone else I know that used old ZGW had problems.


I agree with Shawn! Even if I'm about to do it myself.. As I understand if the vehicle is equipped with some options for example ACC, DCS, park assistance etc. then disconnecting MOST from old ZGW as part of converting it cause issues with these ECUs.. In my case I don't have any of these BUT never knows what else can be affected :S

That's why I'm wondering if I can flash back my old ZGW after upgrading it if something failed?!
Do you know if it's possible Shawn?

Regards!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

You can flash it back, so long as you have PSdZData Full from same I-Level.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> You can flash it back, so long as you have PSdZData Full from same I-Level.


Does that mean that I need as new PSdZData as possible to flash ZGW and old PSdZData to flash it back?

I believe that the new ZGW came 2012-07..

Shawn.. Do you possibly know which is the minimum PSdZData version required to flash the old ZGW?

Regards


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

I am saying only that if you flash any ECU to a higher I-Level, and later decide to return it to its previous state, you need the corresponding PSdZData Full for the I-Level it was at prior to flashing.

I do not know the minimum PSdZData for current ZGW, but I do not think that is relevant. Read I-Step Current from your VCM, and the corresponding PSdZData for it is what you would want to flash it back to.


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## ibu400 (Feb 28, 2014)

> You dont need to change your ZGW.
> I've retrofitted 2010 F10 530XD and NBT works without problem.
> You don't need to change anything in hardware to get it work.
> If you need help with flashing your old metal ZGW for NBT - P.M.


Can someone confirm that ?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

ibu400 said:


> Can someone confirm that ?


I will check first if I understand and can manage the instructions Shawn gave me about flashing back my old ZGW.. And if so I will give it a try this weekend.


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## ibu400 (Feb 28, 2014)

i think you only note the i-level and flash it back width this ? remember zgw not flash about VIN only flash by cars Ip


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

1aBimmer said:


> I will check first if I understand and can manage the instructions Shawn gave me about flashing back my old ZGW.. And if so I will give it a try this weekend.


Please do. Getting another Gateway is what prevents me changing over to the NBT i have laying on my desk.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

gbyleveldt said:


> Please do. Getting another Gateway is what prevents me changing over to the NBT i have laying on my desk.


Why is a new ZGW preventing you NBT retrofit?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> Why is a new ZGW preventing you NBT retrofit?


I guess he means 'buying a new ZGW is preventing him from NBT retrofit..


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## gbyleveldt (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> Why is a new ZGW preventing you NBT retrofit?


Because it's just another thing I have to go buy, outside of already having to molest the car because all cables that needs to go to the NBT are going to the Combox in the boot.

I'm seriously thinking of giving up on the NBT idea and just getting a CIC high as I've got a CIC mid now.


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

Isn't NBT = CIC High? I can understand how painful it is coming from CIC+Combox combo

@1aBimmer, why do you need to rollback?


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## BusyBox (Sep 2, 2013)

xooler said:


> You dont need to change your ZGW.
> I've retrofitted 2010 F10 530XD and NBT works without problem.
> You don't need to change anything in hardware to get it work.
> If you need help with flashing your old metal ZGW for NBT - P.M.


I guess this might be related to this mysterious post floating around:

"Danach sind die Gateway-Tabellen im ZGW durch eine andere Software anzupassen. Das Speed diverser Busse hat sich geändert. Die Software des Containers F010_ZGW_NBT_01.010_004_000 ist zwingend auf das ZGW zu flashen. Ohne dieses Update wird das NBT nicht funktionieren."


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

TokenMaster said:


> @1aBimmer, why do you need to rollback?


In case something failed after ZGW flashing!


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

I see. Rollback should be easy and the same as flashing any other firmware version. I've done it a few times on my 6WA and NBT. Just use the PSdZdata you want to rollback to. Good luck


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## bim me up (Oct 11, 2014)

Great stuff F10 Sweden. Learning a lot from all the posts here, especially those between yourself and Shawn. I can hardly wait for your youtube installation videos. Do fill us in as well when you find the cause of the mic issue.

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and start buying the parts. I'm inspired enough already. On that subject, please advise what the HW version of your NBT is - it looks like one of the latest. If so, how have you planned on resolving the gyro issue that you previously discussed? Any other recommendations of where to source stuff would not go amiss. Cheers


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

xooler said:


> You dont need to change your ZGW.
> 
> I've retrofitted 2010 F10 530XD and NBT works without problem.
> 
> ...


Hi Xooler..

I P.M. You couple days ago about your retrofit with old ZGW.. Can you please describe your wiring and ZGW flash in some steps? I've an idea and want to see if I'm on the right direction?

Thanks in advance


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## latinbimmer (Nov 20, 2014)

Great! Thank you!

Ps: is there any schematics to see connections, color cables and descriptions to compare my current cic vs the new nbt? Any site to download?


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

latinbimmer said:


> Great! Thank you!
> 
> Ps: is there any schematics to see connections, color cables and descriptions to compare my current cic vs the new nbt? Any site to download?


use google with "bmw nbt"


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

my car has cic_mid before and just add 2 pins from nbt to display along with my old video cable and nbt cid work perfect


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

ac_schnitzer said:


> my car has cic_mid before and just add 2 pins from nbt to display along with my old video cable and did work perfect


old cable you must rotate 180 degry and change 2 pin power


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

May be in cic .On cic_mid work without rotate connector


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

ac_schnitzer said:


> May be in cic .On cic_mid work without rotate connector


if the two connectors is red you must rotate! if one rose you dont need rotate it!

in cic is not same connector... only in champ new generation....









left is monitor and right is nbt


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

gbyleveldt said:


> The old ZGW is trying to start up the NBT through MOST. A new ZGW will enable through KCan2 (as it doesn't have a MOST port). Now, the question is whether you can flash your old ZGW with the new ZGW firmware in order for the signals to be routed correctly...


I think this gives you a good reason to experiment.

Somebody who has retrofitted NBT with new ZGW can put the old one back. Change the production date to at least 07/2012 and flash ZGW. 
And that will give us the answer to the question!


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

New and old ZGW share one identical board but in new MOST controller is missing and one CAN controller with 4 CAN channels is more but mine old ZGM is MIDplus version and may be in HIGH there is 2 can controllers


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

Ok , finally after update CAS module problem with ICM is gone and everything work ( steering scrool function , driving experience is displayed on NBT , ICM dont have errors, IHKA panel work - mode button and eject button .. )


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## vithy (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks for the Pictures ac_schnitzer. Now to retrofit the NBT, did you use your OLD ZGW or the new one?

Have you tired to flash the old ZGW with new firmware and try to retrofit? You might have to flash the whole car depending on the firmware level. You must at least use a firmware that had NBT support on it.



ac_schnitzer said:


> New and old ZGW share one identical board but in new MOST controller is missing and one CAN controller with 4 CAN channels is more but mine old ZGM is MIDplus version and may be in HIGH there is 2 can controllers


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

ac_schnitzer said:


> Ok , finally after update CAS module problem with ICM is gone and everything work ( steering scrool function , driving experience is displayed on NBT , ICM dont have errors, IHKA panel work - mode button and eject button .. )


Thanks for sharing your success with us.

It would be beneficial if you share: 
Your car
Your date of manufacture
What you tried?
What failed? 
What have you done to resolve it? (Flashing CAS)
Did you flash CAS in traditional way or by using different method?

I think if you put all this together it will help many others to follow your solution :thumbup:


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

I have full sucess with new ZGW but after program CAS module and others too but when flash CAS problems with ICM disappear , for flashing I use Esys and FA with zeitcriterium 1112 .NBT is not flashed at this time and ZGW new too .First time before flash check MSM update after TAL calculation and then uncheck .
I flashed controllers separately with random arrangement because i was not shure that flashing helps to my problem.
ZGW flash is some problem for me , SVT always have CID and CMBOX on it and ZGW old on it , but when i try to flash ZGW old nothing happens except all car is sitting in transport mode and after switching to normal with INPA car dont start and need to remove battery for 30 sec. to back everything to normal .


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

After flash DDE i have error in EKP and found that coding on DDE is different for EKP wakeup on CAN - just code it to old variant A-CAN (new codind was FA-CAN) and its ok .


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

ac_schnitzer said:


> I have full sucess with new ZGW but after program CAS module and others too but when flash CAS problems with ICM disappear , for flashing I use Esys and FA with zeitcriterium 1112 .NBT is not flashed at this time and ZGW new too .First time before flash check MSM update after TAL calculation and then uncheck .
> I flashed controllers separately with random arrangement because i was not shure that flashing helps to my problem.
> ZGW flash is some problem for me , SVT always have CID and CMBOX on it and ZGW old on it , but when i try to flash ZGW old nothing happens except all car is sitting in transport mode and after switching to normal with INPA car dont start and need to remove battery for 30 sec. to back everything to normal .


What year and month is your car?
I am looking at F10 and one of them is 0810 and other is 0910.
I read comment that cars with pre 09/10 require changing CAS and other modules for NBT retrofit?


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## ibu400 (Feb 28, 2014)

> ZGW flash is some problem for me , SVT always have CID and CMBOX on it and ZGW old on it , but when i try to flash ZGW old nothing happens except all car is sitting in transport mode and after switching to normal with INPA car dont start and need to remove battery for 30 sec. to back everything to normal .


do you have the ZGW flashed over "Connection VIN" or car IP ? - ZGW can not flash on the VIN Connecntion - car goes then into the transport mode


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

My zgw is not flashed yet , car is 2011 - 09


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## mikessc (May 10, 2012)

ac_schnitzer said:


> My zgw is not flashed yet , car is 2011 - 09


Can you read out your new ZGW Gateway Table version number using tool32 ?

Run tool32
Load ZGW_01.prg
Run job status_version_gatewaytabelle.

Thanks


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

V000-007-036-00621


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

My old ZGW is no needet anymore and these days have a try to program and may be brick it for test


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## markusas (Aug 29, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> I bought mine from ECS Tuning for $270:
> 
> http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/61359340521/ES2728455/
> 
> ...


Hi, got the 61359354755 , but on my F11 old one comes with MOST plug, and this one doesn't.

Should i just disable MOST connection or 61359354755 is not compatible for European cars?

Thank you in advance


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## mikessc (May 10, 2012)

ac_schnitzer said:


> V000-007-036-00621


Thanks


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## mikessc (May 10, 2012)

ac_schnitzer said:


> My old ZGW is no needet anymore and these days have a try to program and may be brick it for test


You will need it when dealer program your car.

The reason I asked for the ZGW gateway table ver no. is that I was thinking we can 
replace the gateway table of the old ZGW.

But I cant seems to find any gateway table file that match the version number of
your ZGW.

Mine ZGW (with most) gateway table number is V000-009-024-00639.

There are files under psdzdata\swe\gwtb which seems to be the gateway table file.
You can see version number in the files similar to above when 
viewing them in binary format.

E-SYS has a option to deploy gateway table data in 'TAL-Processing' screen.
ie. The last check box of the ECU item.

I also cant find way to read the gateway table data out from the ECU.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

markusas said:


> Hi, got the 61359354755 , but on my F11 old one comes with MOST plug, and this one doesn't.
> 
> Should i just disable MOST connection or 61359354755 is not compatible for European cars?
> 
> Thank you in advance


Disabling MOST connector is neceserry in both ZGW , if you leave MOST connected to old ZGW wakeup on CAN is not send . When I use my old ZGW in the past MOST be disconnect from ZGW and when I connect it - NBT is shutting dow imediately .


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

mikessc said:


> You will need it when dealer program your car.
> 
> The reason I asked for the ZGW gateway table ver no. is that I was thinking we can
> replace the gateway table of the old ZGW.
> ...


ZGW version table is a way that ZGW arrange CAN siglals to other modules right ?


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

We need to find a way to read Motorola processor from BDM port directly to ZGW , when software from new ZGW is loaded to old and EEPROM 25c256 is reprogrammed i think old ZGW should work like new


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

ac_schnitzer said:


> We need to find a way to read Motorola processor from BDM port directly to ZGW , when software from new ZGW is loaded to old and EEPROM 25c256 is reprogrammed i think old ZGW should work like new


You may flash it via ethernet with castom tal...


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

But before start of programming esys check SWFL Btldr ant other files in ZGW and compare it with software in TAL to be compatible and if not gives me error and dont start programming session


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Gatewaytable is in SWFL_0000092B_xxx_xxx_xxx. I am studying this thing at the moment and will post some results later.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay, so the gateway table is in SWFL_0000092B_xxx_xxx_xxx. Here are screenshots from svt soll calculation with two different SVT/FA-combinations, one from 9/2011 F11 with CIC and other one from 03/2014 F11 with NBT:










If we open swfl_0000092b.bin.002_011_007 with winhex, we will see this:










V000-009-024-00639 is the gateway table number that tool32 will show.

I also compared 92b.bin file sizes and they are all 128 kb so no problem on that part. There are five different possibilities for 92b:








Sub- and patch-version numbers may differ because of psdzdata updates but main version should be the same.

I would start by creating a custom TAL that only replaces 92b_003_xxx_xxx with 92b_005_xxx_xxx. If this doesn't work, then I would try other three options. Only after that I would try to replace the other SWFL file.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

Both ZGW uses identical processor and periferial except MOST controller in old model , principally new software must work in old ZGW but need tests with programming . If have more time to this i try to flash it .


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## mikessc (May 10, 2012)

ap90500 said:


> Gatewaytable is in SWFL_0000092B_xxx_xxx_xxx. I am studying this thing at the moment and will post some results later.


:thumbup::thumbup:

Is it true that all NBT unit does not has MOST connection ?

I have a BMW PDF on Headunit high that indicates for F25 (X3), the HU
still connect to ZGW via MOST !!! :dunno:

Also notice in NBT caf , GATEWAYTABLE parameter value is different
for F10, F30 and F25
F10, F01 = table_0
F20, F30 = table_1
F25 = table_7

The GATEWAYTABLE parameter does not has time criteria condition.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Okay. It is also possible that the SWFL 92A must be replaced with SWFL 10F6, these files also have the same size.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

If you want i tell you file numbers from my new ZGW - this ZGW is from 1112 car 1st facelift with NBT , but sofware is not updated and may be older then new pzdzdata


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

mikessc said:


> :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> Is it true that all NBT unit does not has MOST connection ?
> 
> ...


Maybe the NBT gateway table doesn't have time criterion because NBT uses always the same gatewaytable for one model? This doesn't mean that there is a most connection to ZGW. I still don't really know if the F25 ZGW uses most or not. ISTA wiring diagram picture shows no most cables for ZGW but pin list still shows most connector. Here is a ZGW svt from 9/2014 F25 with NBT, it has different 92B than F10:


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

ac_schnitzer said:


> If you want i tell you file numbers from my new ZGW - this ZGW is from 1112 car 1st facelift with NBT , but sofware is not updated and may be older then new pzdzdata


You could send me your SVT-files, with old and new ZGW. Also FA is needed. My email is forum username at gmail.com.


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## mikessc (May 10, 2012)

ac_schnitzer said:


> Both ZGW uses identical processor and periferial except MOST controller in old model , principally new software must work in old ZGW but need tests with programming . If have more time to this i try to flash it .


My car upgraded by dealer recently to i-step F010-14-03-503.

ZGW HWEL , BLTD same as posted by ap90500 except
the SWFL_0000092B file.

Mine is SWFL_0000092B_002_011007.

I check the file, indeed I found V000-009-024-00639 (read using tool32) in there !!!


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

MOST communication is needed for connection to KOMBI but not for ZGW in NBT f10 car but i dont know for x3 too .May be x3 use CIC in later than f10 like f30 . When some car go to my garage i check it to know


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

mikessc said:


> My car upgraded by dealer recently to i-step F010-14-03-503.
> 
> ZGW HWEL , BLTD same as posted by ap90500 except
> the SWFL_0000092B file.
> ...


On my CIC picture, there is swfl_0000029b_002-011-007, same as yours.


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## mikessc (May 10, 2012)

Diagram from BMW PDF.
Notice that CID connect via APIX, HU to KCAN2 , CON to KCAN2


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## BusyBox (Sep 2, 2013)

I've software converted ZGW2 High Plus to ZGW2-8SK by flashing it with this firmware using custom made TAL:

ZGW2 High Plus (with MOST and with KCan-2) has two SWFLs

SWFL_0000092A_003_004_130 ~ 1.5MB in size
SWFL_0000092B_002_011_007 ~ 128KB in size

ZGW2-8SK (without MOST and with KCan-2) has also two SWFLs

SWFL_0000092B_005_014_005 ~ 128KB in size
SWFL_000010F6_003_004_160 ~ 1.5MB in size

Bare in mind that I only use this ZGW to flash NBT units on desk, no actual experience in a real pre 07.2012 car, so be careful!

Attached is the very simple TAL I used (rename from .pdf to .xml)


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

BusyBox said:


> I've software converted ZGW2 High Plus to ZGW2-8SK by flashing it with this firmware using custom made TAL:
> 
> ZGW2 High Plus (with MOST and with KCan-2) has two SWFLs
> 
> ...


So what is the mechanism behind it?
Does this flash de-activates the activation of CIC / NBT via most loop and make ZGW2 high plus compatible with CAN-2?


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## BusyBox (Sep 2, 2013)

MOST is completely deactivated for sure and I think K-CAN2 line is working like in real ZGW2-8SK
Like I said before - I use it only for NBT flashing, no real in car experience and to be honest I doubt it can fully replace real ZGW2-8SK, but well who knows...


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

I seen the F25 productions date 04/2013 with NBT from factory.
The ZGW was with most connections. Unfortunately now I can't check the SVT files.But I'm shure that this car have ZGW with most and NBT from factory. Maybe some difference in NBT software?


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

At least ZGW gateway table (swfl 92b) is different on NBT F25 if compared to NBT F1x, the other SWFL is the same. This F25 I am talking about is 9/2014 though.

Someone must test this older zgw with newer software in car and see if it really works. Like Busybox said, if it lacks any required components, it will not be 100% functional.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

Ahhh i have another big problem now , today my emularo arrive to me and now it connect to the car but i try to edit my OxDE fsc and to write again need to change date in it . Now every other fscs are accepted except 0xDE , navigation menu is active but need activation code . I dont know what to do


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Why did you do that? Now you need to upgrade to newer fsc set. If you need help, I can do it via Teamviewer.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

This is my original fsc and new is only with date changed in it


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

You can't change date in fsc and again, why did you try to do it?


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

I dont know just tryed to change vin to see what happen , i think when i have backup of old fsc there is no problem but this is not like i think


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, i think too that it is not like you think 
You have emulator so you can and actually you must insert a newer fsc set into your NBT, again I can help you via Teamviewer.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

Thanks to ap90500 for biggest help!!!


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## TokenMaster (Jul 18, 2013)

He knows his stuff 

Don't manually edit FSC files. The things you see in the XML data must match the RSA encoded data. Any mismatch and you'll be screwed, hopefully, only temporarily


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Thanks for both of you:thumbup:


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

And what about radio antenna , i have poor FM reception after retrofit , combox is disconnected and may me some cable on it is used to wake up antenna aerial ? Do anyone have same problem ?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ac_schnitzer said:


> And what about radio antenna , i have poor FM reception after retrofit , combox is disconnected and may me some cable on it is used to wake up antenna aerial ? Do anyone have same problem ?


F25 have different antenna amplifier fot Nbt.Maybe for F10 the same situations.


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

What you ding in F25 to make it work ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ac_schnitzer said:


> What you ding in F25 to make it work ?


Replace "Scan Diversity" Antenna with "Phase Diversity" Antenna and add FM2 Wire from Antenna to NBT.


----------



## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ac_schnitzer said:


> What you ding in F25 to make it work ?


New ant.amplifier


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

This sucks , when cut geound shield on antenna cable FM reception work but not good


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## ibu400 (Feb 28, 2014)

this is a NBT?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/BMW-F15-F16-F25-F26-X3-X5-X6-F10-F11-F12-F13-Navigationssystem-Navi-NBT-/00/s/MTA5OVgxNjAw/z/LsgAAOSwcu5UQCAS/$_57.JPG


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Pm me your teamviewer pass and id.


----------



## markusas (Aug 29, 2014)

Thanks to ap90500 without his help i would be stuck for ages with it. The first mistake I made was selecting wrong I-Level for flashing but even after flashing the ZGW had a problem, the Flexray could not initialize as it stuck on learning process, needed to stop learning with tool32 and then initialize it.

All fitted and works fine except a very poor FM reception, looks like FM antenna not powered up, the black facra connector is connected with black plug on NBT. anybody had this problem?


----------



## markusas (Aug 29, 2014)

Thanks to ap90500 without his help i would be stuck for ages with it. The first mistake I made was selecting wrong I-Level for flashing but even after flashing the ZGW had a problem, the Flexray could not initialize as it stuck on learning process, needed to stop learning with tool32 and then initialize it.

All fitted and works fine except a very poor FM reception, looks like FM antenna not powered up, the black facra connector is connected with black plug on NBT. anybody had this problem?


----------



## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

Yes  , try to cut only ground shield , for me works for now ( I don't have time to see what exactly happens wit supply to antenna )


----------



## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

Guy
I know a guy who says that it is possible to retrofit nbt in 2011 F10 without changing ZGW. He said that he has adapter which will change CAN1 to CAN2 signals.

Has anybody every tried this approach?


----------



## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

makkan00 said:


> Guy
> I know a guy who says that it is possible to retrofit nbt in 2011 F10 without changing ZGW. He said that he has adapter which will change CAN1 to CAN2 signals.
> 
> Has anybody every tried this approach?


It is very interesting, i have same from BR from canada, but in work not good...


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

dipo71 said:


> It is very interesting, i have same from BR from canada, but in work not good...


Sorry what you mean by BR?

And are you saying that you have same adapter but it does not work?


----------



## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

makkan00 said:


> Sorry what you mean by BR?
> 
> And are you saying that you have same adapter but it does not work?


BR its bimmer retrofit

Yes not all function work and work correct

I have it


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

dipo71 said:


> BR its bimmer retrofit
> 
> Yes not all function work and work correct
> 
> I have it


Do you mind sharing which emulator you have?

And did you had to get specific hw on NBT?

Thanks.


----------



## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

BR has stopped selling this adapter because there were issues with it. Of course you can build your own by using arduino due but maybe it is easier if you just buy a new (used) ZGW?


----------



## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

ap90500 said:


> BR has stopped selling this adapter because there were issues with it. Of course you can build your own by using arduino due but maybe it is easier if you just buy a new (used) ZGW?


What is arduino? Can you kindly prompt me in the right direction?

I am struggling to find used ZGW which I can fit in my car. Any forum member wants to sell it at reasonable price?


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Try google for arduino and etk*****ebay.com for ZGW.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Etk dot cc slash ebay dot com


----------



## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

ap90500 said:


> BR has stopped selling this adapter because there were issues with it. Of course you can build your own by using arduino due but maybe it is easier if you just buy a new (used) ZGW?


with my car new zgw not work correct

problem with icm and cas


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

app90500

may be you may healp me with it?


----------



## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

You have not fixed your svt and your flexray initialization is not complete, I guess.


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

ap90500 said:


> You have not fixed your svt and your flexray initialization is not complete, I guess.


may you look it via teamviewer?


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## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

and sport comfort button not work, active crouse control not work too


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Not today.


----------



## dipo71 (Jan 8, 2013)

ap90500 said:


> Not today.


ok


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

ap90500 said:


> Etk dot cc slash ebay dot com


Thanks very much. Appreciate your help. :thumbup:
Re: aruino, if I was that intelligent, I would be making more money


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

markusas said:


> Thanks to ap90500 without his help i would be stuck for ages with it. The first mistake I made was selecting wrong I-Level for flashing but even after flashing the ZGW had a problem, the Flexray could not initialize as it stuck on learning process, needed to stop learning with tool32 and then initialize it.
> 
> All fitted and works fine except a very poor FM reception, looks like FM antenna not powered up, the black facra connector is connected with black plug on NBT. anybody had this problem?


Could you tell me the function used in tool32 as I have the same issue, I have updated my 03/11 f11 with 2.53 data then install ZGW02-4SK & flashed it using 11/12 build, NBT works OK but I cannot initialize the Flexray as ista is saying it cannot talk to the ICM.
Regards
Jason


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## makkan00 (Dec 25, 2011)

mcrussell said:


> Could you tell me the function used in tool32 as I have the same issue, I have updated my 03/11 f11 with 2.53 data then install ZGW02-4SK & flashed it using 11/12 build, NBT works OK but I cannot initialize the Flexray as ista is saying it cannot talk to the ICM.
> Regards
> Jason


Jason, lets hope you can rectify your problem.
Can we use ZGW02-4SK to retrofit nbt and if yes, can you kindly share the part number?
Not sure what Flexray is? Fexible X-ray :dunno:


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

It came from same car as the nbt, 4SK is for cars without park assist or EDC 8SK is for cars with, I think


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

mcrussell said:


> Could you tell me the function used in tool32 as I have the same issue, I have updated my 03/11 f11 with 2.53 data then install ZGW02-4SK & flashed it using 11/12 build, NBT works OK but I cannot initialize the Flexray as ista is saying it cannot talk to the ICM.
> Regards
> Jason


ZGW_01.prg, steuern_reset_learn_flexray. After this I was able to initialize it, not sure if I used inpa, ista or tool32. All of them should work though.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks for that, I'll give it a go later.

Was there any argument required to enter for that function?


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks for that, I'll give it a go later.

Was there any argument required to enter for that function?


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

No arguments. On tool32, under arguments box there is another box that shows if arguments are needed.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Cool I'll try it


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Mcrussel, did this work for you?


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

No, the issue is the ICM & DSC cannot be seen by the ZGW due to the gateway table (I think)


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## grahammcm1888 (Sep 12, 2012)

I am contemplating this retrofit. I currently have business nbt. I have read pretty much through all this thread. I know i can source the nbt pro head and screen . I can also source an emulator cable the only thing I am not sure of is ZGW compatibility? I am kind of confident that I can code the unit with esys. I currently have an F10 2014 . The unit I am potentially going to get has been removed from a 2013 F10. I have confirmed that it has DAB and did have Nav and Voice control working prior to being removed. Is there anything else I should be worried about/forgotten?

And I believe I need a link cable if I want to get the touch pad working?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ac_schnitzer (Nov 3, 2014)

Friends , i bough camera emulator for my retrofited NBT but not work , 3AG added to VO and CODE to NBT and PDC , CAN wires connected to KCAN1 on wires from old CIC but options for brightness , contarst , etc ... stay in grey color and don't work , also try to VO CODE : CAS , FRM, FRR with 3AG to see what happen but nothing . Do any use one of this chinesse emulators and sucess to make it work ?


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

I tested changing the gateway table on my NBT in 2011 f11 to see if I could get it to wake up from MOST instead of KCAN 2 so I could get comms back to the KOMBI but after choosing table 7 for f25 it wouldn't boot from either MOST or KCAN2!!
managed to recode to table 0 & get it working again though.


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## vithy (Apr 8, 2013)

Mcrussell , how did u upgrade your gateway table?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

You can change ZGW Gateway Table version number using Tool32:

Load ZGW_01.prg

Run job status_version_gatewaytabelle.


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## vithy (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks Shawn. Is there a list of all gateway tables?



shawnsheridan said:


> You can change ZGW Gateway Table version number using Tool32:
> 
> Load ZGW_01.prg
> 
> Run job status_version_gatewaytabelle.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

vithy said:


> Thanks Shawn. Is there a list of all gateway tables?


Not that I have seen.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> You can change ZGW Gateway Table version number using Tool32:
> 
> Load ZGW_01.prg
> 
> Run job status_version_gatewaytabelle.


No, this only shows current gw-table of ZGW. You can change it by flashing different SWFL into ZGW.

Mcrussel was talking about NBT (MOST master control unit) gw-table, it is changed by fdl-coding NBT, parameter name is gatewaytable. If this thing what mcrussel was trying to do is even possible, I guess that it requires also changing of ZGW gateway table.

Edit.
8/2014 F25 with NBT has:
BTLD_000010F5_003_004_090 (Bootloader without MOST)
HWEL_000010FC_000_194_000 (Hardware 8SK)
SWFL_0000092B_009_013_004 (Gatewaytable)
SWFL_000010F6_003_004_160 (Aplication without MOST)

This makes me think that the activation is not done via MOST, nor there is a MOST connection even on F25 8SK ZGW. As I already wrote, NBT is the master control unit of MOST-bus.


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## BusyBox (Sep 2, 2013)

Where did you get the description of different components from?


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

BusyBox said:


> Where did you get the description of different components from?


PM sent.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Your right guys, I didn't think about it requiring a different table in the ZGW I was hoping it would allow the NBT to boot over most so I could talk to the KOMBI without having to keep changing the ZGW over every time I want to code it & the NBT, if it was possible to modify the table in the ZGW to see the KOMBI & NBT I would have everything working except the scroll wheel & PDC button, I'm going to install a later pdc panel to see if the ICM will recognise the message


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Has anyone tried to use original "CIC"-ZGW (which has most connected) and NBT by changing gatewaytable in NBT?

BTW it is possible to code NBT by connecting directly to quadlock erhernet pins.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

That's what I did last night, at the moment I use old ZGW with most looped out so NBT boots from KCAN 2, I coded table 7 then connected MOST back up but it still wouldn't boot


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

mcrussell said:


> That's what I did last night, at the moment I use old ZGW with most looped out so NBT boots from KCAN 2, I coded table 7 then connected MOST back up but it still wouldn't boot


I would try all possible gw-tables in NBT, there are ten of those.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Does anyone know if it's possible to edit the SWFL for the gateway


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## ibu400 (Feb 28, 2014)

Hello,

i have a working CIC with an activated SIM for ConnectedDrive. On retrofit NBT could i simple change the SIM ? and use the remote functions?


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## justbusiness (Jan 24, 2015)

So, for NBT installing we should have:
zgw 02 even with most(the modified tal works and make the zgw functional for NBT)
Very important! Cas after September of 2010. So 1010 cas is ok. If production date of your car is 1010 you will not change the cas, only zgw.


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## justbusiness (Jan 24, 2015)

So, for NBT installing we should have:
zgw 02 even with most(the modified tal works and make the zgw functional for NBT)
Very important! Cas after September of 2010. So 1010 cas is ok. If production date of your car is 1010 you will not change the cas, only zgw.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

It's possible to use used ZGW from F10 for instalations into F25?Or we must to use only F25 ZGW?


----------



## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

F25x said:


> It's possible to use used ZGW from F10 for instalations into F25?Or we must to use only F25 ZGW?


I have used ZGW 02 4SK from F10 520da.May I use this one for F25 NBT retrofit?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

F25x said:


> I have used ZGW 02 4SK from F10 520da.May I use this one for F25 NBT retrofit?


Ok. I tried put used ZGW from F10. The NBT work just fine.
But a lot of other errors:
DSC,EDC,Climate control(rear).
I think that ZGW must be reprogrammed.After TAL calculating I have different BTLD and SWFL.The HWEL is the same.
I need to change only SWFL or BTLD too? For the ZGW programming may I use ENET cabel.
Thanks in advance..


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

Ok!NBT installed,ZGW installed.All nbt functions work.The problem is CID.The cid show no signal.After diagnostic i have only one error in nbt.check and replace Cable between nbt and cid.I already tried two different new cable for nbt/Cid.One from f30 second from f10.The same result.Also i put both in to F30 with nbt from factory.Both work just fine.Also i tried to put another nbt set(nbt and cid).The same result.No signal What i can try???Please help me


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

It is very easy to inproperly connect CID side of the cable, if the cable is first installed to the vehicle. First connect cable to the cid and check that it is fully locked, then connect the cable to the nbt. There are no bus wires in nbt screen cable, only video and power. If connector is not fully connected, screen gets power supply but no video signal.

I say this because it seems that you have fully working parts.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

connector already checked.Nothing Still no signal.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Ok, then i really don't know what is wrong, but it seems that the problem is not in nbt, cid or cable between them. My next guess could be the ZGW, but it is really just a guess. Install original ZGW and see if the CID turns on (if original zgw has kcan2).


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> Ok, then i really don't know what is wrong, but it seems that the problem is not in nbt, cid or cable between them. My next guess could be the ZGW, but it is really just a guess. Install original ZGW and see if the CID turns on (if original zgw has kcan2).


My old zgw with most and can2.When i tried to put nbt with old zgw nbt no wake up.On the cid the same no signal.And also very strange that for example voice control work.I can't see what happen with navi


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

F25x said:


> My old zgw with most and can2.When i tried to put nbt with old zgw nbt no wake up.On the cid the same no signal.And also very strange that for example voice control work.I can't see what happen with navi


Did you replace your old CID Cable with HSD+2 Cable for new NBT CID?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> Did you replace your old CID Cable with HSD+2 Cable for new NBT CID?


Yes,i have new oem cable cid/nbt from f30.61129261850


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

F25x said:


> Yes,i have new oem cable cid/nbt from f30.61129261850


I don't know then. I would verify the cable in a working car if you can.

Does your CID have CAFD with Green Dot?


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

I suppose he did as the cid gets power from those two extra wires.

Was the new ZGW flashed with F25 software, or does it still have f10 software? F10 ZGW has different gateway table.

Btw. Why didn't you buy F25 ZGW? You spent around 1ke to fsc codes, and then saved maybe 100 euros by buying wrong ZGW. I am not telling this because of I want to blame you or say how you should spend your money, I am telling this because somebody else will read this topic later and do how this thing is written here. FSC codes can be handled by buying can filter that costs hundred euro, and it works for sure. Some FSC code sellers say that OEM way is better, but I have yet to see how. Filter just filters out VIN number going from CAS to NBT, that is all it does and this is enough to keep donor fsc codes active. Also if there are some codes missing, it is possible to install another full set with e-sys.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

NBT CID is not codeable. It is not even a module in coding and programming meaning, it is just a display with video in and power.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> I don't know then. I would verify the cable in a working car if you can.
> 
> Does your CID have CAFD with Green Dot?


I tried already cable in other car with nbt.The cable work.I haven't cid in my svt.I think that only cic/champ equipped car have cid in svt and have cafd.The nbt cid connected directly to nbt and haven't bus connections.Maybe this happen because the zgw have different i-level?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ap90500 said:


> NBT CID is not codeable. It is not even a module in coding and programming meaning, it is just a display with video in and power.


Really? I never noticed. CIC CID has CAFD.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

shawnsheridan said:


> Really? I never noticed. CIC CID has CAFD.


Yes, all pre-NBT displays are codeable but this changed on NBT.

I know that F10 has different ZGW table than F25, and I think that next thing to do is to flash F25 software to the ZGW.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> I suppose he did as the cid gets power from those two extra wires.
> 
> Was the new ZGW flashed with F25 software, or does it still have f10 software? F10 ZGW has different gateway table.
> 
> Btw. Why didn't you buy F25 ZGW? You spent around 1ke to fsc codes, and then saved maybe 100 euros by buying wrong ZGW. I am not telling this because of I want to blame you or say how you should spend your money, I am telling this because somebody else will read this topic later and do how this thing is written here. FSC codes can be handled by buying can filter that costs hundred euro, and it works for sure. Some FSC code sellers say that OEM way is better, but I have yet to see how. Filter just filters out VIN number going from CAS to NBT, that is all it does and this is enough to keep donor fsc codes active. Also if there are some codes missing, it is possible to install another full set with e-sys.


No,I still haven't a fsc codes.I'll buy can filter.I try to use zgw from f10 Because i have it and after update zgw have all swfl and btld as for f25.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Ok, wise decision about the codes:thumbup:.

I don't understand, did you already flash the ZGW?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> Ok, wise decision about the codes:thumbup:.
> 
> I don't understand, did you already flash the ZGW?


Yes,already flashed.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Did you use F25 FA with NBT zeitkriterium for calculating svt_soll? If yes, then I don't have any more ideas, at least for now.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> Did you use F25 FA with NBT zeitkriterium for calculating svt_soll? If yes, then I don't have any more ideas, at least for now.


Yes,zk 0814.Just tried to connect nbt+cid+cable into my second car f30 2013.The nbt work without coding.I think that something wrong with my F25


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> Did you use F25 FA with NBT zeitkriterium for calculating svt_soll? If yes, then I don't have any more ideas, at least for now.


what about cas?Maybe cas also must be coded with zk for F25 Lci?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

Ok....What i did.New cable,new cid,new cid/nbt set.Zgw was reprogramed.And still no signal on the cid.What next????New ZGW?The car worke just fine except cid.Now i have only two errors.
1.No comminications between cid/nbt
2.Trsvc error.I need to reroute wires.


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## chuzo (Dec 29, 2014)

Hi I'm having similar problems retrofiting an NBT to my 2012 x3. I changed the zgs module to the recomended 61359340521 part and I get a "No Signal" black screen on the NBT no sound or functionality. 

However when I connect Esys I can read and code the NBT.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

Ok ! I think that I tried everything but still have problem with CID.
All components has been checked. Already tried to install another NBT/CID.
The same result.In RHEINGOLD I found info about NO SIGNAL message. What about first DEFECTIVE PICTURE FROM HEADUNIT.How to check signal from HU. When I try to check CID via Rheingold always receive error:No communications between HU and CID.
And one more question.When i tried to read CPS from ZGW also receive error:

Transaktions-Report: Aktion: CPS lesen

ZGW2 [10]
CPS read from ECU "ECUId:ZGW2_0x10" failed! [C070]
MCDError Severity: 2051, Error Code: 49184,
Description: Object with name not found, 
Vendor Code: 3, Vendor Description: provided name READ_CPS_FROM_ECU doesn't map to an item [2130755616]
What is wrong with ZGW? The whole car work perfectly(except CID ). No errors.

Thanks in advance for your help:bow:


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## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

CPS is Kodierprüfstempel - Coding proof stamp - your error is that during flash the CPS was not successfull.
Looks like now ZGW dont have it. If you do VO code of ZGW, with all options in Settings enabled, is this successfull (green) ???


----------



## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

standa said:


> CPS is Kodierprüfstempel - Coding proof stamp - your error is that during flash the CPS was not successfull.
> Looks like now ZGW dont have it. If you do VO code of ZGW, with all options in Settings enabled, is this successfull (green) ???


How to code ZGW? I think that ZGW haven't CAFD and can't be coded. Or I'm wrong?Also I tried today insert back my old ZGW with MOST and get the same error:dunno:


----------



## standa (Mar 5, 2014)

F25x said:


> How to code ZGW? I think that ZGW haven't CAFD and can't be coded. Or I'm wrong?Also I tried today insert back my old ZGW with MOST and get the same error:dunno:


Aaaah, sorry for that, yes ofcourse ZGW is not codeable, forgott.

Hmmm, before flash you said that HWEL was OK, its strange. May be you really should buy F25 ZGW as ap90500 wrote already. Compatibility is sometimes really not predictable.

But it should have no influence on CID issue.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

standa said:


> Aaaah, sorry for that, yes ofcourse ZGW is not codeable, forgott.
> 
> Hmmm, before flash you said that HWEL was OK, its strange. May be you really should buy F25 ZGW as ap90500 wrote already. Compatibility is sometimes really not predictable.
> 
> But it should have no influence on CID issue.


Yes,the HWEL was black during TAL calculations. Also the ZGW was reprogrammed without error. I initialized the FlexRay.ZGW hasn't errors. But I think that ZGW didn't solve my problem with CID.


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

After NBT update to 54.1 everything work:bow:
Thanks to everybody for your help :thumbup:


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## smercki (Feb 28, 2006)

Hi
I have a Big problem, after 12 hr in garage for retrofit NBT in f11 06/10
With new zgw2 without most nbt work perfect but car no run, no possible select D in gear, and error dtc stability....
Car have upgrade software to last version by bmw

Whith old zwg (in metal case, I have see alwase in plastic) nbt work fine but some of the radio buttons do not work, MODE, EJECT, ON / OFF RADIO ect
Have find the solution?
Thank you for attention


----------



## sbc55 (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi,

I have retrofitted nbt 1 year+ ago on my 2013 F10 and my installer mentioned that after the retrofit, my emergency button will not work. Do you guy knows which module to control the emergency call button and whether can i enable it again? Thanks.


----------



## sbc55 (Jun 24, 2013)

Hi,

I have retrofitted nbt 1 year+ ago on my 2013 F10 and my installer mentioned that after the retrofit, my emergency button will not work. Do you guy knows which module to control the emergency call button and whether can i enable it again? Thanks.


----------



## ruben_17non (Sep 2, 2014)

sbc55 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have retrofitted nbt 1 year+ ago on my 2013 F10 and my installer mentioned that after the retrofit, my emergency button will not work. Do you guy knows which module to control the emergency call button and whether can i enable it again? Thanks.


You need remplace COMBOX Telematik by New TCB


----------



## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

I installed NBT on 6/2012 produced F10. Car has ZGW 02 Mid, which I flashed to ZGW 8SK software (only SWFL's) and almost everything is working. Only problem is car's FLA camera (high beam assist, not KAFAS though), which has been replaced by FLA3 starting from 7/2012 production. FLA is connected to K-CAN an FLA3 is connected to K-CAN2. So I can't get any kind of connection to FLA now, I am pretty sure that the problems is ZGW gateway table which is now trying to find FLA3 from K-CAN2 (FLA and FLA3 share the same diagnostic adress). 

Has anyone had this same problem? Is there protocol converter available or do I have to create my own? Is anyone willing tell if FLA and FLA3 share the same CAN frames? If the information is not public, you can send me PM. 

Thanks!


----------



## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

justbusiness said:


> Flash icm, cas with 07/12 vo. Which zgw do you have?


Do you have a custom TAL you could send so I can flash ZGW-02 Mid Plus to 4SK?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> I installed NBT on 6/2012 produced F10. Car has ZGW 02 Mid, which I flashed to ZGW 8SK software (only SWFL's) and almost everything is working. Only problem is car's FLA camera (high beam assist, not KAFAS though), which has been replaced by FLA3 starting from 7/2012 production. FLA is connected to K-CAN an FLA3 is connected to K-CAN2. So I can't get any kind of connection to FLA now, I am pretty sure that the problems is ZGW gateway table which is now trying to find FLA3 from K-CAN2 (FLA and FLA3 share the same diagnostic adress).
> 
> Has anyone had this same problem? Is there protocol converter available or do I have to create my own? Is anyone willing tell if FLA and FLA3 share the same CAN frames? If the information is not public, you can send me PM.
> 
> Thanks!


I also have the one questions about FLA3.
I have successful retrofitted FLA3. The FLA3 connected to CAN2. Everything work. No errors. But Rheingold show that FLA 3 connected to k-CAN:dunno: Why? Wrong coding:dunno:


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## ddthomas415 (Mar 23, 2013)

Is they a way to reading the vin# from a NBT with Esys?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ddthomas415 said:


> Is they a way to reading the vin# from a NBT with Esys?


Go to Comfort Mode => FSC => Check FSC Status. NBT VIN will show in Log Window.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi
Finally I'm ready to retrofit NBT on my F10 2010-04..

Have only one question: I bought a used ZGW-2 8SK, I read that ZGW doesn't have cafd so there is no coding!! But do I need to flash it? Or is there an easier way to write my cars vin into it?

If I have to flash it, is there any depended ECUs which I have to flash?

Regards


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

1aBimmer said:


> Hi
> Finally I'm ready to retrofit NBT on my F10 2010-04..
> 
> Have only one question: I bought a used ZGW-2 8SK, I read that ZGW doesn't have cafd so there is no coding!! But do I need to flash it? Or is there an easier way to write my cars vin into it?
> ...


You will need to flash it.


----------



## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> You will need to flash it.


This morning I swapped my old ZGW to ZGW-2 8SK and tried to flash it! Unfortunately couldn't flash it because it failed on TAL calculation step and got this error msg















As I mentioned before the ZGW I'm trying to flash is used and came from a 550 Xi US..


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

1aBimmer said:


> This morning I swapped my old ZGW to ZGW-2 8SK and tried to flash it! Unfortunately couldn't flash it because it failed on TAL calculation step and got this error msg
> View attachment 514377
> 
> View attachment 514378
> ...


Are you using PSdZData Full or Lite?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> Are you using PSdZData Full or Lite?


Full!


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

1aBimmer said:


> Full!


Are you doing this via E-Sys Launcher?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> Are you doing this via E-Sys Launcher?


I'm not sure what launcher is! But I have a short from e-sys.bat


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

1aBimmer said:


> I'm not sure what launcher is! But I have a short from e-sys.bat


What PSdZData are you using?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> What PSdZData are you using?











Can you see it from this screenshot?


----------



## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

1aBimmer said:


> View attachment 514445
> 
> 
> Can you see it from this screenshot?


No. That is not your PSdZData version. That is the PSdZ library used by E-Sys, which has nothing to do with your PSdZData (e.g. 54.1, 55.4, etc.)

If you don't know, what is the name of your E-Sys Target Connection?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

I believe it's 2.54.2


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

1aBimmer said:


> I believe it's 2.54.2
> 
> View attachment 514450
> 
> ...


Yes. What is the size of your psdzdata folder?


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## neo_andersson (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes, absolutelly true.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

neo_andersson said:


> Yes, absolutelly true.


Cool, is this with just one emulator or do I have to buy 2 separate ones

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## neo_andersson (Feb 3, 2008)

For PDC button if your car has old idrive controller with 10 pins you will need a different adapter.
SLI and ZBE converter can not be integrated in same adapter due to the fact they are connected differently to car.
SLI adapter is connected to PT-CAN wires going to your KAFAS1 while ZBE converter taps kcan1 and kcan2 wires at ZGW and has a separate dedicated connection to center console switch cluster.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

*Working at last*

OK guys,

After Neo's invaluably help we got the NBT working in my 05/11 car, turns out my ZGW02 4SK doesn't have a flexray channel on pins 32&33 where the ICM connects to, we found a channel on pins 11&12 which allowed us to initialize so steering function returned & all modules where talking in ISTA, does anyone have a schematic of the ZGW02-4SK to confirm which pins are active for flexray as ISTA seems to only show all 8 channels which you would find on the 8SK.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

mcrussell said:


> OK guys,
> 
> After Neo's invaluably help we got the NBT working in my 05/11 car, turns out my ZGW02 4SK doesn't have a flexray channel on pins 32&33 where the ICM connects to, we found a channel on pins 11&12 which allowed us to initialize so steering function returned & all modules where talking in ISTA, does anyone have a schematic of the ZGW02-4SK to confirm which pins are active for flexray as ISTA seems to only show all 8 channels which you would find on the 8SK.


Awesome!!
Is the possible for f10 before 10/10?
I have ZGW-01 high from factory and bought ZGW-02 8SK?!

Regards


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

I told over a month ago on this topic that 4SK does not have all flexray channels available. Nice that you got it working. There is a topic on this forum about the channels available, I just can't remember the subject of that topic. You can check channels with tool32 but can't recall if it shows just activated channels or all channels that are available from hardware side.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Correct!!
With tools32
Load job ZGW
then run 'status_flexray_pfad'

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c60s730w66ac6ux/skärmklipp 2015-08-08 21.51.41.png?dl=0


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Here are flexray channels and pins on ZGW:

0x00, 18-pin connector, 3 and 4 (SZL)
0x01, 54-pin connector, 34 and 16 (EPS)
0x02, 54-pin connector, 32 and 33 (ICM), 14 and 15 (DSC)
0x03, 54-pin connector, 11 and 12 (AS, or differential lock with S63, or VTG on xDrive)
0x04, 54-pin connector, 29 and 30 (N74 or N62TU DME2)
0x05, 54-pin connector, 26 and 27 (damper satellite RL), 8 and 9 (damper satellite FL)
0x06, 54-pin connector, 24 and 6 (VDM), 22 and 4 (damper satellite RR)
0x07, 54-pin connector, 1 and 2 (PMA, or LCW if no PMA present)

Low models of ZGW are missing half of these channels, I think 0x04-0x07. It seems that some channels have multiple ecu's connected. Does anyone know if one ecu can be added to some port that already has other ecu? Like 0x00 that has only SZL. There are good wiring diagrams in ISTA, "System overview FlexRay and CAN" and two pieces of "FlexRay bus". 

There is also a good chance that channel 0x01 or 0x03 is free. 0x01 is reserved only for electrical power steering, 0x03 is free if car has no active steering, is not a M5 and has rear wheel drive.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Strange thing was though my ICM was originally wired to 32,33 & was not reachable, we had to use 11,12 & manually activate in tool32.
If we then initialised flex ray in ista it turned off 11,12 obviously due to the FA.
Maybe LCI cars use only 14,15 & D.SC. is connected via ICM?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> Here are flexray channels and pins on ZGW:
> 
> 0x00, 3 and 4 (SZL)
> 0x01, 34 and 16 (EPS)
> ...


Is this for ZGW01 with MOST?

Do you know if it's the same for ZGW-2 8SK without MOST?

Regards!


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

ISTA shows the same wiring diagrams for both pre 7/2012 (CIC, ZGW 01 and ZGW 02 MID/HIGH) and post 7/2012 (NBT, ZGW 02 4SK/8SK). Of course the wiring diagrams are not always 100% correct so I really don't know what happened on mcrussel's car. DDE/DME is connected to the same input as ICM so if the ICM did not work, how did the DDE/DME? Via PT-CAN?

BTW. If mcrussel bought used 4SK, this can be the source for problems. Factory fitted parts can have very specific parts and can miss something like this. If you buy a brand new 8SK, it will be full and should not have this kind of probems. On the other hand, if you flash the original ZGW with 4/8SK software, you don't need to buy a new ZGW.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

1aBimmer said:


> Is this for ZGW01 with MOST?
> 
> Do you know if it's the same for ZGW-2 8SK without MOST?
> 
> Regards!


No, I had ZGW02 mid from factory with ICM on 32,33 but the ZGW02 4SK pins 32,33 seem to be dead

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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

ap90500 said:


> ISTA shows the same wiring diagrams for both pre 7/2012 (CIC, ZGW 01 and ZGW 02 MID/HIGH) and post 7/2012 (NBT, ZGW 02 4SK/8SK). Of course the wiring diagrams are not always 100% correct so I really don't know what happened on mcrussel's car. DDE/DME is connected to the same input as ICM so if the ICM did not work, how did the DDE/DME? Via PT-CAN?
> 
> BTW. If mcrussel bought used 4SK, this can be the source for problems. Factory fitted parts can have very specific parts and can miss something like this. If you buy a brand new 8SK, it will be full and should not have this kind of probems. On the other hand, if you flash the original ZGW with 4/8SK software, you don't need to buy a new ZGW.


Yes I have compared the schems & they are the same, I agree that the used 4SK being a factory unit may have a different config, my DME was also unreachable.

Do you have a custom TAL I could use to flash my ZGW02 mid or mid plus to 8SK swfl?

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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

mcrussell said:


> No, I had ZGW02 mid from factory with ICM on 32,33 but the ZGW02 4SK pins 32,33 seem to be dead
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So most likely this is for ZGW-01 high.
Have to find the table for ZGW-02 8SK!

But I'm still not sure what's the better way for me to take?
Use my original ZGW01 high with modified table from ZGW-02 hopefully to prevent replacing CAS & ICM?!

Or if there's a way to use ZGW-02 8SK (sense I already have one) without replacing CAS & ICM??


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

This is the issue I have, I would rather use my zgw02 mid & flash it if I could find the correct TAL as 8SK over here is £300!


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

I'm sure 8SK is the same as ZGW01 (according to ISTA) but 4SK is definitely different


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Ok I just checked a friends car D163737 with 4SK from factory & he has:
ICM 32,33
EPS 34,16
DSC 14,15
SZL 3,4 on 18pin

This means something must have gone wrong when I flashed my 4SK, I'm sure when I first had it before flashing I had the same issue with it not seeing the ICM



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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

You must calculate SVT target with modified FA. Change zeitkriterium to 0712 and remove all option codes starting with number six, except 609. Calculate SVT target by using i-step shipment F010-12-07-5xx. If you get ZGW2 and HU_NBT to SVT, you have found correct FA. FA modification might require some other tricks too, depending on car. It is easier to use FA and SVT actual from some car with NBT and do calculation with them. Now take a note of BTLD and SWFL numbers from ZGW2. 

Next calculate SVT target by using original FA. Open this SVT in Esys SVT editor or in xml editor, like notepad++. Find ZGW and replace BTLD and SWFL's with the ones from ZGW2. 

Last thing is to open SVT actual and modified SVT target, calculate TAL with it and execute the TAL (selecting only ZGW bldeploy and swdeploy).

So, get BTLD and SWFL numbers from "ZGW2", inject them to SVT target which has original "ZGW", calculate TAL and flash the ZGW. It is impossible to say which files are correct because the numbers change between different psdzdata version. For psdzdata v56.2 they are:

BTLD_000010F5_003_004_090
SWFL_0000092B_005_015_001
SWFL_000010F6_003_004_160


ps. SZL seems to be on different connector, I fixed the list. Thanks to mcrussel for this.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks for that bud, I'll give it a go later


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Ok, big thanks to ap90500, updated my mid plus following his instruction & all is working with the ICM pins back in 32,33, I checked the zgw with tool32 & flexray channels 0,1 & 2 are active with 3 inactive.
I am not sure why ch 2 didn't work on the 4SK other than it being faulty.

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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> You must calculate SVT target with modified FA. Change zeitkriterium to 0712 and remove all option codes starting with number six, except 609. Calculate SVT target by using i-step shipment F010-12-07-5xx. If you get ZGW2 and HU_NBT to SVT, you have found correct FA. FA modification might require some other tricks too, depending on car. It is easier to use FA and SVT actual from some car with NBT and do calculation with them. Now take a note of BTLD and SWFL numbers from ZGW2.
> 
> Next calculate SVT target by using original FA. Open this SVT in Esys SVT editor or in xml editor, like notepad++. Find ZGW and replace BTLD and SWFL's with the ones from ZGW2.
> 
> ...


Hi man..

Is this what I need to do in order to remapp me old ZGW 01 high with ZGW 02 8sk flexray table?

Best regards!!


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

I did this with a mid plus unit but it was a spare, I wouldn't recommend if this is your only zgw in case something goes wrong


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

mcrussell said:


> I did this with a mid plus unit but it was a spare, I wouldn't recommend if this is your only zgw in case something goes wrong
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But as I understood that I can restore it to original state by flashing it back with original FA and svt?
So far I still can connect to the car of course??!!

Maybe to risky?


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

I would be causious 


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

You can try this: First flash ZGW with original FA, then flash only SWFL from 8SK. At least on 02 mid & high and 02 4SK & 8SK, corrupted SWFL's won't break the ZGW and you can always flash it back to factory. Also 02 mid & high with original bootloader and 4SK/8SK SWFL's do work just fine. Likely 01 has the same processor but I have never opened one.

Do you really have a ZGW 01, with metal casing? If e-sys shows just "ZGW", it does not mean that you don't have ZGW 02 mid or high.


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## BusyBox (Sep 2, 2013)

I've converted two ZGW2 (one high and one high plus) to ZGW2 8SK so far by first flashing only SWFL's and they are working as original 8SK. After flashing bootloader too, E-SYS started to show them as ZGW2, so completely like the original one except HWEL's are different, but that's normal and is not a problem. Flashing only the two SWFL's is the safest approach.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> do you really have a zgw 01, with metal casing? If e-sys shows just "zgw", it does not mean that you don't have zgw 02 mid or high.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Ok. Open them and check if they have the same scheme, processor and so on. You can also take pictures but they must be clear so that identification from chips can be read. So upload them to some server, do not use forum picture attachment function.

Busybox, do you know what is the difference between high and high plus? Or mid and mid plus?


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## BusyBox (Sep 2, 2013)

High plus I guess has the maximum Flexray lines like the 8SK, never opened mid versions, but high versions differ only by the number of Flexray electric components on the logic board, processor is same.


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

So no clue about what is the difference between MID and HIGH? I thought it would be the FlexRay channel count but maybe it is something different. Anyway it seems that ZGW 02 xxx works as it should with NBT, if it is flashed with 8SK software.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Does anyone know the line to enable LDW & FCW pop up on NBT when activated?


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## neo_andersson (Feb 3, 2008)

look for ibrake in coding and make sure FAS_INSZENIERUNG is set to inszenierungstafeln


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Thanks bud, will that allow me to change the warning time also in the NBT?


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## neo_andersson (Feb 3, 2008)

of course


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Great


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Any ideas on this? Getting overlapping text

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## neo_andersson (Feb 3, 2008)

Set to altive only one ibrake option not both, depending on your car's specs.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Ok I'll have a look thanks again


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

FCW pop up is all good now, LDW pop up still doesn't show though but is active in NBT, is this due to the NBT not seeing the KAFAS 1?


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Could I use a KAFAS2 with my existing camera?


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

Hi!
I have done NBT retrofit in my F25 12.2012 .ZGW was changed. Now I have 4sk.
The next small project is new pdc module from F25 LCI.
I already did the following.
1.New JBE from F25 LCI without PDC installed. 2.New PDC module from LCI installed.I have coded NBT,TRSVC,PDC,ICM,Kombi.
PDC work but camera systems and PDC button didn't work.
The Rheingold show two errors.
1.PMA status error. Sender pma,receiver trsvc 
2.PDC button error.Sender ICM/ZGM,receiver PMA
As per wirning diagram the pdc module connected to CAN2. I did it.
I dont know why but Rheingold show that PDC module connected to Flexray.

The problem is ZGW?Maybe ZGW2 8SK may help. Or it's not possible
to retrofit new PDC ecu in to car with old TRSVC and ICM ecu? 

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Is there a coding option to allow you to turn of all camera types when you have part assist? I have surround view but can only switch between top view & rear view


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## Dr.Moe (Nov 6, 2015)

Anyone have the pin out of this cable:

61119185171


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## neo_andersson (Feb 3, 2008)

mcrussell said:


> FCW pop up is all good now, LDW pop up still doesn't show though but is active in NBT, is this due to the NBT not seeing the KAFAS 1?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


LDW can not popup without new FRM with integrated SARAH controller.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Ok thanks


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi everybody..
I'm sadly giving up this retrofit on my f10 before 10/10  

I have NBT hw:07, new CID, new CID to NBT cable, new USB cable, I-drive touch, new TBX (ECE-US), ZGW02 8SK, emulator from EMTRONIKA..

If anyone is interested PM me.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

What doesn't work?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

mcrussell said:


> What doesn't work?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When I change to ZGW2 8SK.. NBT works,the car starts but when I try to shift gear.. Car prompt push break before shifting gear3!!

Some guys said that because the car is before 10/10 then I have to replace CAS and ICM.. 

The other tip is to use my original ZGW01 high with modified flexray table... But I couldn't figured how!!


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## byM5 (Apr 10, 2015)

Get a pro coder


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

I have questions. ZGW 4SK/8SK from F10 have the same hardware as for F25?Only software difference? And reprogrammed F10 ZGW with correct software from F25 will work as factory installed F25 ZGW?

Thanks!


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## ap90500 (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes it should work. I have done this once.


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## 2real4u (Oct 7, 2012)

Dr.Moe said:


> Anyone have the pin out of this cable:
> 
> 61119185171


All HSD cables have the same pinout:
1 -> 4
2 -> 3
3 -> 2
4 -> 1


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

ap90500 said:


> Yes it should work. I have done this once.


Thanks!!!
One more questions . Why Rheingold show that some ecu connected to the wrong bus.For example the nbt,tbx,zbe connected to the can2 and Rheingold show connections correct. But at the same time the FLA3 connected to can2 but Rheingold show that FLA connected to the CAN1.TRSVC connected to CAN1 but Rheingold show that TRSVC connected to CAN2.
PMA connected to CAN2 but Rheingold show that PMA connected to FlexRay.
I have already tried to change ZK but not help. All ECU except PMA work just fine.
I can't understand why this happen.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

PMA should be connected to the flexray 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## F25x (Feb 3, 2014)

Not for F25. For F25 to CAN2.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

Apologies 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bmwdaffy (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi from Spain.
I need help.
I have a f10 from 2012, but it was made on 31-8-2010 (about vin), y havent got CIC or NBT, but i have mulf2 with bluetooth and armrest usb/aux, so i want to retrofit navi but i dont know if NBT or CIC.
Is this correct?
To Nbt i need screen+hu nbt+zgw kcan2+emulator and change position of usb armrest back on NBT, and i must remove mulf2 and take bt aeral into nbt directly.


If i put CIC y only need Screen+hu cic and emulator, my zgw will fit and mulf will do combox functions.


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## ru-999 (Oct 10, 2015)

Hey, can you help me please.

I want update zgw 1 for NBT retrofit.

I have tried

1. calculate SVT target with modified FA (0712 remove all codes starting with number six, except 609)
2. Calculate SVT target by using i-step shipment F010-12-07-5xx
3. note of BTLD and SWFL numbers from ZGW2
4. calculate SVT target by using original FA
5. replaced BTLD and SWFL's with the ones from ZGW2
6. calculate TAL with SVT actual and modified SVT target
7. flash the ZGW (selecting only ZGW bldeploy and swdeploy)

but I always get an error, what am I doing wrong?


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## Fooljam (Oct 2, 2007)

Anyone got radio and DAB (Digital radio in Europe) to work properly on late F10 with NBT retrofit (2014, 2015 models)

I put switched power to the FM amplifier : Still crap.
I changed the actual FM amplifier to the one for NBT with switched power and ran a 2nd FM antenna plug : Still crap
DAB is particularly bad and cuts of all the time.
Car has DAB so 2 antennas from factory already.


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## mcrussell (Mar 14, 2005)

I'm getting exactly the same! I thought it was my antenna amps faulty but I bought a new one with the same result!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

den4yk said:


> Hi. Help me please. ZGW 4sk has can3 ?


Yes.


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## den4yk (Mar 2, 2017)

Will work with frm(lci) to retrofit led headlights ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

den4yk said:


> Will work with frm(lci) to retrofit led headlights ?


I'm not going to advise on what part may or may not work for generic retrofits. You need to research specific ECU part numbers in ETK, and confirm compatability.


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## den4yk (Mar 2, 2017)

If there are can3 must work. My zgw 61359299592, what do you think ?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

den4yk said:


> If there are can3 must work. My zgw 61359299592, what do you think ?


I told you what I thought already. Compatability needs to be verified using part numbers and ETK. I would not assume anything.


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## den4yk (Mar 2, 2017)

Ok)


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## den4yk (Mar 2, 2017)

Ok)


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## bmwrider2010 (Dec 31, 2010)

Thanks


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi 
I retrofit the nbt to my 2010 F10.I change ZGW module for do this you know.After than my side view camera not working.I bought zbe button converter for fix this problem.I have to install it to zgw and pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.I know zgw module but I don't know the pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.Any one tell me where located the module?
Thanks.


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi 
I retrofit the nbt to my 2010 F10.I change ZGW module for do this you know.After than my side view camera not working.I bought zbe button converter for fix this problem.I have to install it to zgw and pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.I know zgw module but I don't know the pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.Any one tell me where located the module?
Thanks.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> hi
> i retrofit the nbt to my 2010 f10.i change zgw module for do this you know.after than my side view camera not working.i bought zbe button converter for fix this problem.i have to install it to zgw and pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.i know zgw module but i don't know the pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.any one tell me where located the module?
> Thanks.


Here is ZBE Button Converter wiring Diagram:


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi shawn,
I have this diagram but I don't know pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.Where located it?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> Hi shawn,
> I have this diagram but I don't know pdc/hdc/svc buttons module.Where located it?


I don't think it is a Module per se'. It is the strip of buttons in center console next to Gear Shifter that has PDC, HDC, and SVC buttons.


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

Yes it's correct.I complated the installation and working perfect.Thank you very much...


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi again,
I retrofited nbt my 2010 F10.it has 9C fsc.I add 6NR to FA and vo code to HU_NBT but there isn't bmw apps in connected drive menu.What can I do?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> Hi again,
> I retrofited nbt my 2010 F10.it has 9C fsc.I add 6NR to FA and vo code to HU_NBT but there isn't bmw apps in connected drive menu.What can I do?


So 9C FSC Code has Status = Accepted?

What FA Build Date did you use to VO Code NBT?

Was iPhone connected with Cable and Connected Drive App launched on the Phone?


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> So 9C FSC Code has Status = Accepted?
> 
> What FA Build Date did you use to VO Code NBT?
> 
> Was iPhone connected with Cable and Connected Drive App launched on the Phone?


9C fsc code status is accepted
I changed build date 11/13


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> 9C fsc code status is accepted
> I changed build date 11/13


And "Was iPhone connected with Cable and Connected Drive App launched on the Phone?"?


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> And "Was iPhone connected with Cable and Connected Drive App launched on the Phone?"?


I connected the iphone but it's looking only charge.No apps or other action.I don't understand what is the problem (


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> I connected the iphone but it's looking only charge.No apps or other action.I don't understand what is the problem (


Do you have 6VA, 6VB, or 6VC in FA?


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> Do you have 6VA, 6VB, or 6VC in FA?


No but I think and I am not sure 9c fsc status.If 9c fsc istatus rejected what can I do?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> No but I think and I am not sure 9c fsc status.If 9c fsc istatus rejected what can I do?


You said it was Accepted. Why is it now suddenly Rejected? Is it the only FSC Code with Rejected Status, or others too like DE, and A0?


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> You said it was Accepted. Why is it now suddenly Rejected? Is it the only FSC Code with Rejected Status, or others too like DE, and A0?


I am so sorry.I I remember it as a acceped but I am not sure now.I have to go to car and check it.If it rejected what can I do?


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> I am so sorry.I I remember it as a acceped but I am not sure now.I have to go to car and check it.If it rejected what can I do?


It depends what is causing the rejection. I am not going to speculate. If it is rejected, I need to know if just 9C is rejected or are all FSC Codes rejected.


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> It depends what is causing the rejection. I am not going to speculate. If it is rejected, I need to know if just 9C is rejected or are all FSC Codes rejected.


Okay dear shawn.I will check all fsc status and comeback.
Thanks...


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

Hi shawn,
I checked fsc and fa status.You can see attached pictures.


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> Hi shawn,
> I checked fsc and fa status.You can see attached pictures...


Your pictures don't work. I don't need pictures though. Besides 9C, do any other FSC Codes have Status = Cancelled?


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

9C
fscstatus:Not Available
fscCertstatus:accepted


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> 9C
> fscstatus:Not Available
> fscCertstatus:accepted


So we have gone from having 9C Accepted, to 9C Cancelled, and now to no 9C at all to begin with. 

It's Pretty simple. No 9C = No BMW Apps.


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> So we have gone from having 9C Accepted, to 9C Cancelled, and now to no 9C at all to begin with.
> 
> It's Pretty simple. No 9C = No BMW Apps.


Yes you are quite right.No 9C = No BMW Apps


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> Yes you are quite right.No 9C = No BMW Apps


You have retrofitted NBT. I assume you are using an Emulator with it. So to get 9C, just use a Different set of Donor FSC Codes that includes 9C.


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## ppolaris (Apr 15, 2014)

shawnsheridan said:


> You have retrofitted NBT. I assume you are using an Emulator with it. So to get 9C, just use a Different set of Donor FSC Codes that includes 9C.


Okay Dear shawn.Thank you very much for advice.I will contact with mr.Gerry for FSC set.
Best regards...


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

ppolaris said:


> Okay Dear shawn.Thank you very much for advice.I will contact with mr.Gerry for FSC set.
> Best regards...


:thumbup:


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## apples12 (Feb 14, 2016)

Hi
I have a 2013 LCI with NBT and my brother has a 2014 LCI with NBT,
He has a GPS tracking option in his menu and can track the car.

Is there any way of enabling this in my 2013?
Is it a matter of coding or hardware?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

apples12 said:


> Hi
> I have a 2013 LCI with NBT and my brother has a 2014 LCI with NBT,
> He has a GPS tracking option in his menu and can track the car.
> 
> ...


What is meaning of "GPS Tracking"?

You can add Add Position (GPS Coordinates) to Main Navigation Screen by coding:

HU_NBT => NAVI_POSITION_MENU = aktiv


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## Rieger (Jun 21, 2015)

Hi

I retrofit in my F11 11/2011 NBT with Most adapter.
But now when try coding there is error.










add not work:

Bluethoot and GPS antenne.

Regards


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## osd (Aug 16, 2013)

Have anybody have problem with FSC after converting ZGW to ZGW2 by flashing ? 
I flashed ZGW to ZGW2, NBT works but FSC are always rejected. 
When I upload new FSC it works 2-3 minutes then all rejected. 
I have used 4 different emulators so far, always have same problem. 
Tryed two differet NBT headunits, still the same. 
I think, it can be ZGW problem maybe. Did anybody seen that before ?


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## osd (Aug 16, 2013)

Have anybody have problem with FSC after converting ZGW to ZGW2 by flashing ? 
I flashed ZGW to ZGW2, NBT works but FSC are always rejected. 
When I upload new FSC it works 2-3 minutes then all rejected. 
I have used 4 different emulators so far, always have same problem. 
Tryed two differet NBT headunits, still the same. 
I think, it can be ZGW problem maybe. Did anybody seen that before ?


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## Thorsten (Jan 5, 2015)

Hello,

which emualtor are you using? CAN filter?
Build date of your car?


Thorsten


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## osd (Aug 16, 2013)

It is 09/2011.
CAN emulators. 
Some Chineese, some European.


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## Thorsten (Jan 5, 2015)

Ok,

you changed after flashing the wiring, so that you have CAN2 on quadlock and filters are for NBT?


Thorsten


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## osd (Aug 16, 2013)

Sure, without it I think NBT wouldn't work. There are new wires from EMU to ZGW.


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## scorpion90 (Sep 11, 2017)

*Retro fit bmw f10 nbt*

Hi guys i wonder if you can help me. i have a bmw f10 2013 model and car was broken in to all nbt and i drive were stolen some of the cables were cut .. big black plug with optic wires one was fine.. i contact to one of the guy he claimed he could do it. i took to car to him he install second hand nbt 200gb with i drive and screen but the nbt he istalled was with out DAB he said i would be ok as i dont use dab. Any way he complete the job and he said he did not use emulator he used FSC code and i left. I came home and played with settings i could not set the clock also veichle status service requriement page is blank i believe there should be brake pads engine oil , veichle check etc...The guy does not seem to help me. what do u thing cause this ? thanks


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## mrashton (Apr 30, 2012)

scorpion90 said:


> Hi guys i wonder if you can help me. i have a bmw f10 2013 model and car was broken in to all nbt and i drive were stolen some of the cables were cut .. big black plug with optic wires one was fine.. i contact to one of the guy he claimed he could do it. i took to car to him he install second hand nbt 200gb with i drive and screen but the nbt he istalled was with out DAB he said i would be ok as i dont use dab. Any way he complete the job and he said he did not use emulator he used FSC code and i left. I came home and played with settings i could not set the clock also veichle status service requriement page is blank i believe there should be brake pads engine oil , veichle check etc...The guy does not seem to help me. what do u thing cause this ? thanks


Double post - Please keep to one thread on the forum for the same issue. I responded to your specific thread.


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## Okan2630 (Jul 9, 2016)

Which emulator do i need for this retrofit ? I have a F10 pre lci from 2010.


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## hero3838 (Feb 20, 2012)

Okan2630 said:


> Which emulator do i need for this retrofit ? I have a F10 pre lci from 2010.[/QUOIT
> 
> you need this adaptör http://bmwcustomretrofit.com/navigation-retrofits/bmw-nbt-fxx-retrofit-adapter
> 
> bu adaptörle ancak kullanabilirsin


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## hero3838 (Feb 20, 2012)

today i tired flash zgw2 basic of 2012/04 b***305;ild year f10. first flashed with orjinal FA only zgw ishipment 12-04-504 every think were normal no any error. i tried with changed FA with 609,6nl with ishipment 12-07-504 but 
"[zgw2-10]-[exception-zgw2-10] svk-Ist does not match excepted SGBMIDs for ecu ECUId:ZGW2_0x10. Excepted(relevant process classes only): [hwel_000010fc-000_194_000], Actual (relevant process classes only):[hwel_00000926-000_193_001],Missing SGBMID(s): [hwel_000010fc-000_194_000], Surplus SGMID(S): [hwel_00000926-000_193_001)
TAL-execution finished with status:FinishedWithError .(C207)

Than tried with: HwInstall,blFlash,swdeploy,cdDeplo,ibaDeploy .warning backup hwinstall,hwDeinstall and flash it we backup it and unchecked Hwinstall and flashed again car has transmission oil temprature and switch off car and on everythinks normal but now we can not connect to car e-sys connection menu can not see zgw "np zgw available. before we connected it with tftpd64 .is there problem with zgw or connection setting of laptop someone can tell me wich setting for network connection tcp4 for e-net and how can we flash it without bootloder and hw only with swlf flash and how do it
sorry for complex words and bad english .but i need urgently answer.car zgw is :zgw-02 Mid part no:9284421 hw0c1,1 .can we convert it 8sk

error log :

https://mega.nz/#!9UtFXbiD!dAhHfXZEleEon_QHY6a6cA_3G28jvuhFj89PTheXtyo


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## jararak (Dec 4, 2013)

hi everyone, can you help me with VO? I have 2011/9 530xd f11

1CA,1CB,1CC,1CD,230,258,2NB,2TB,316,320,337,402,418,423,428,459,481,488,494,4MR,4U2,502,508,522,524,536,548,575,609,610,612,614,615,616,620,633,677,698,6AA,6AB,6FL,6NF,6VC,6WA,710,715,760,761,775,7A2,7SP,801,851,879,8KA,8TF,8TH,8TN,8V1

I should remove 6va, 6fl, 6NF, 6VC, 633

i should add 6nl (there is notice I should try 6AK instead)

question is what about SOS button/bmw assist?

should I remove 612, 614, 615, 616, 6aa, 6ab ?


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi everybody..
Im back with this retrofit 
Last time I gave up since my F10 is build 2010 04.. But I´ll givit one more try ;D

But I need some advice..
I have 3 ways to go..
1. Replace ZGW, ICM and CAS and retrofit
2. Keep all my original ECUs and retrofit with Customretrofit adapter (the one for 449 euro)
3. Try to flash my old ZGW (with MOST) to ZGW2 software.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi everybody..
Im back with this retrofit 
Last time I gave up since my F10 is build 2010 04.. But I´ll givit one more try 

But I need some advice..
I have 3 ways to go..
1. Replace ZGW, ICM and CAS and retrofit
2. Keep all my original ECUs and retrofit with Customretrofit adapter (the one for 449 euro)
3. Try to flash my old ZGW (with MOST) to ZGW2 software.


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## jararak (Dec 4, 2013)

Hi 1aBimmer
i can help you with option 2 which I did 2 weeks ago with same adapter, base installation was really fast and easy, yes, there was some issues, but most cases it was my fault 

when you will proceed with this step I can give you few advice
1, connect carefully optical connector zgw->adapter, I had problem that one line jump out of connector little bit and everything works 50/50.
2, don't use electricity from CIC's CID, you will need terminal 30 (not f, not G), you can find one in CAS or Kombi (i chose kombi that is less important as CAS in case of accident). maybe just for test as you have B+, B-, and also KcanH, KcanL here.


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Glad to hear that! What was production date on the car you used this adapter on?

Is there any think that doesn’t work?

Thanks in advance 


Skickat från min iPhone med Bimmerfest


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## jararak (Dec 4, 2013)

it was f11 530xd 11/2011

to be honest, not sure if anything is not working, I don't spot any major issue

for now I don't reconnect 2nd microphone. I have some time issue with Logic7, but after complete recode of car, and after 2 sleep of electronic it start working as it should (after start of NBT fader was only to righ rear speaker)

coding related
maybe SOS call (telematics)? not sure, I don't setup it right now
strange is kafas1 alerts me at every change of speed (have to find way how to recode it)


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

jararak said:


> it was f11 530xd 11/2011
> 
> to be honest, not sure if anything is not working, I don't spot any major issue
> 
> ...


Ok.. I've done this retrofit on F10 2011 with only ZGW2 exchange plus can filter off course!!

The bug issues here is my production date is before 2010 10!!

Thanks anyway..

Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi again..

Some updates.. for a couple weeks ago I bought an ICM gen 2 unit to activate Eco por mode so I found my self almost done buying newer ECUs..

So now I have ZGW2-8SK, ICM gen 2 and as I understand I need a newer CAS module.. not really sure what I need (which version)

Is there different CAS modules?

The next question is how difficult is to install a used CAS unit?!

And by having all that stuff it should be possible to retrofit NBT even in my early production F10 (2010 04)

any advices?

Regards!!


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## 1aBimmer (Sep 26, 2014)

Now I talked to a Pro retrofitter and he told me that installing a used CAS ECU is NOT an option!!
and a new CAS ECU is still to expensive..

So I´m back to either option 2 (use Custom retrofit adapter) or option 3 (Flash old ZGW with ZGW2 software)..

Is there anyone how succeded with this retrofit on F10 with production date before 2010 10?

Regards


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## hero3838 (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi 1abimmer 
I have same issue please contact with me pm may be i can help you


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## pweber84 (Feb 2, 2013)

Guys, anyone know whether NBT EVO has exactly the same CID cable as regular NBT? I mean the pinout is the same?


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## alex520 (Jul 13, 2015)

hi few years ago i retrofit nbt to my C844914, today i press by mistake magic button code default values on nbt, cafd its gone, when i try injected in to ecu CAFD_00000DED_001_020_106 & press code esys show error
donor vin is c977908, my esys 3.24.3 psdzdata 56.0
can somebody chelp me?
sorry for my english


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## shawnsheridan (Jan 10, 2009)

alex520 said:


> hi few years ago i retrofit nbt to my C844914, today i press by mistake magic button code default values on nbt, cafd its gone, when i try injected in to ecu CAFD_00000DED_001_020_106 & press code esys show error
> donor vin is c977908, my esys 3.24.3 psdzdata 56.0
> can somebody chelp me?
> sorry for my english


I replied to your same PM.


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## addy24 (May 19, 2005)

For you, easiest would be CIC Pro, but you can also do NBT retrofit. Items below pertain to NBT

ZGW 8sk is NOT plug an play per say, you will have to flash it to your car since other car it came from will not have the same options as you. So E-sys flash the ZGW 

ICM may or may not be changed. If you find NBT unit with HW version 7 it should have gyro built in and you can FDL code it to use that gyro. If you find NBT unit with higher HW version, then you might be better off getting the Emulator/Adapter that has build in gyro.

PDC/Camera switches/ZBE controller is the other one. You probably have the one with the 10 pin connector on the controller. that connected the PDC and Camera buttons to controller and then converts to KCAN. You have to get ZBE protocol converter (Or again one of the sellers here has the full adapter/emulator that does all of this for you)


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## bodek_wr (Dec 18, 2012)

*Retrofitted E70 to NBT - no FLA option visible*

Hi,

I have retrofitted E70 to NBT_HU (HW:31). I've set option HIGH_BEAM_ASSISTANT	Werte=01 but config screen is not visible in NBT menu (settings). 
Second problem, I have adaptive lights, but i can't find any option in NBT settings . What I have to set to get this option/screen selectable/enable?

best regards

M.M.


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## JanosFromHungary (Jan 21, 2021)

Hi


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


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## Ggaabbe (Aug 9, 2021)

Hello guys!

I’m trying to retrofit nbt to an f10 with producrion date 04/10.

I have bought the following:

NBT HW21
ZGW02 8SK
New Icm (the round one)
K-can2 hooked up to ZGW
MOST loop for ZGW, unfortunately not for combos.

I have 3 issues.

1. I can not get the dsc light to go off. Gives error code D02C67 but only sometimes. Is this linked to problem 3? Also when readi live data I can read brake pressure but brake switch states inoperated.

2 I have VO coded the car to 676 sound package but I still have no connection to the amplifier and no sound. I read somewhere that the amplifier needs a new turn on wire but thats a later problem.

3 Press brake to engage gear, D91419. I know this will be sorted by new cas.


Thanks in advance 
Gabriel


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## kostas109 (Mar 9, 2019)

xooler said:


> No need to change cas. I've done many cars whithout changing cas.
> Just correct flash for ZGW.
> Interested - PM.


hello,can you help me for f10?


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## iliannavy (Oct 9, 2021)

Hello.The car is BMW F25 2011.Retrofitted with US Head unit.But after retrofit I got these faults in ISTA and Radio is not scanning automaticaly during change the region.Any Idea with red modules in the ISTA?
Do you think that FA is correct for NBT retrofit from CIC.


----------

