# LtWt Flywheel



## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Guys,
I am looking for real world experience with lightweight flywheels and clutch assemblies for a 1998 540i6. I will have an opportunity to replace the flywheel and clutch with minimal labor and want to do this upgrade.
So far I have identified three alternatives...
1. Dinan 
2. VAC Motorsports
3. UUC Motorwerks

Any opinions on these and any experience? I need to make a decision by Friday so I can get the parts in time to coordinate the activity.

Thanks
JB


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## DZeckhausen (Mar 11, 2003)

DSPTurtle said:


> Guys,
> I am looking for real world experience with lightweight flywheels and clutch assemblies for a 1998 540i6. I will have an opportunity to replace the flywheel and clutch with minimal labor and want to do this upgrade.
> So far I have identified three alternatives...
> 1. Dinan
> ...


Just be aware that some of those choices can rattle like a diesel rabbit at idle. The UUC clutch/flywheel assembly is the only one of those with a sprung hub in the clutch and is supposed to rattle much less or not at all. I'll be evaluating that system shortly, but it's still in production and may not be available right away. You should check with them to get an estimated delivery date. Rogue Engineering is also coming out with a lightweight flywheel for the E39, although I don't know much about it yet and had already committed to test the UUC one before I learned about theirs.


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

DSPTurtle said:


> Guys,
> I am looking for real world experience with lightweight flywheels and clutch assemblies for a 1998 540i6. I will have an opportunity to replace the flywheel and clutch with minimal labor and want to do this upgrade.
> So far I have identified three alternatives...
> 1. Dinan
> ...


Dinan has a slight rattle, its no big thing, just tranny lash. This is the only mod that offers a true bang for the buck and I am shocked more haven't done it. You will need software for this mod, so if you go to VAC or UUC I wonder how they would accomadate the s/w. I am sure they will tell you there is no reason to have the s/w adjusted, but any good salesman would say the same thing. Dinan is the only one with s/w.
I had this mod done years ago, I was car #1 for Dinan and it was awesome, enjoy!


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

jzdinan540i said:


> Dinan has a slight rattle, its no big thing, just tranny lash. This is the only mod that offers a true bang for the buck and I am shocked more haven't done it. You will need software for this mod, so if you go to VAC or UUC I wonder how they would accomadate the s/w. I am sure they will tell you there is no reason to have the s/w adjusted, but any good salesman would say the same thing. Dinan is the only one with s/w.


Honestly, that's believing the software marketing a bit too much.

I'll throw the ball back in your court, please answer this question: in strictly technical terms, what is it about adding a lightweight flywheel to an E39 do you think requires a software change?

I'll even add this... do you know what bolt-on mods actually require a software change in a modern BMW? Only two things "require" a software change: changing the AFM (to deal with the calibration change of a larger diameter tube with same MAF sensor) and forced induction (only in terms of dealing with the expected fault codes).

There is very little difference in how a 2004 BMW reacts to performance modifications than a 1970 Camaro. Increases in efficiency (although less easy to find in the BMW) are still taken advantage of just as easily - in fact, even more easily - by the adaptive Motronic engine management system. Quite frankly, software updates are minor tweaks, looking for a few additional hp without turning a wrench, or to change throttle response characteristics (2001+ models only). As a software vendor, you know there would be no reason for me to talk anyone out of buying software... all I am saying is that it is not "required" for anything other than the mods I listed previously.

So before I explain further, I really am curious about your answer to my question above.


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## Lscman (Aug 5, 2003)

I understand the OEM engine management software is designed to work within the stock flywheel's kinetic rotational energy parameters. For this reason, angular momentum of the reciprocating assembly should not be altered without reprogramming. In fact, the complete integrated Dinan whizbang package (lightweight flywheel, clutch assy, carpet protectors, re-mapped software & Celis tail lights) must be installed or the left control arm bushing will degrade and cause uneven tire wear or possibly even radiator failure. How many times has this happened to an E39? Please...are you suggesting these are not recurring issues? I bet Dinan has determined root cause. Actually, Rob....it's hard to explain, but I'm confident Steve isn't just milking loyal customers. I think you should consider a heavy duty steering shaft & xenon dome light in an integrated flywheel package. The marketing opportunities are endless, if you simply use your imagination. Get with the program. :rofl:


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

(post removed by me, entirely wrong reaction to Lscman's very good joke.)


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## Lscman (Aug 5, 2003)

I suppose my edit to inject additional sarcasm caught you off guard. 

The carpet protectors and Celis are especially important components in the exclusive whizbang kit.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

Lscman said:


> I am sorry Rob. Thought the sarcasm was obvious.


Key-ryst, I'm sorry.

That'll teach me to post when I have a 102-degree fever. It read so seriously before you edited it!

Please accept my apologies. Off to get more tea and pass out on the couch.


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## mottati (Apr 15, 2003)

boy, i wish i read rob's post before he edited it! 
But seriously, dinan raises the idle rpm, since you're loosing some rotational (inertial) mass, there was talk that you would (might?) get stalling if you were trying to idle at 600 rpm (i'm thinking with the M5), so dinan raises it to 900. That's all the software does, as far as i know.
mike

seriously thinking about a short shift, rob are those illuminated 6 speed knobs available yet, they've been listed on your website as on backorder for a while!
thanks


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

mottati said:


> boy, i wish i read rob's post before he edited it!
> But seriously, dinan raises the idle rpm, since you're loosing some rotational (inertial) mass, there was talk that you would (might?) get stalling if you were trying to idle at 600 rpm (i'm thinking with the M5), so dinan raises it to 900. That's all the software does, as far as i know.
> mike
> 
> ...


The only software change that has any effect, as you noted, is the idle bump of 100rpm.

*However.* this stopped being a factor since 1996. Pre-1996, BMWs would occassionally stall on deceleration to a stop with the clutch pushed in. 1996 and newer models automatically adjust (thanks to the adaptability!) and are fully "normal" within 1-2 acceleration cycles.

On the E39, in our testing, we have seen the E39s compensate pefectly right away... in fact, given the fact that the V8 is relatively hard to stall, we have never had one stall on decel, even on the very first post-install cycle.

In short, nothing to worry about and no software change is required.

As for the illuminated RK3 shift knobs, our website ordering system is unfortunately too simple to differentiate between sub-SKUs. We do have illuminated RK3s available in the 6-speed fitment, just no 5-speeds.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

[sarcasm]And don't forget- any time you mod the E39, you need to get ready for an $8,000 engine rebuild. There is simply no other way around it. It's fact. I will not present proof. None is needed because I know it's true. I wasted more money than any other person in the world, and that's what makes it fact. FACT, I tell you!

BMW sucks and I will be getting rid of my bimmers, my family's 300 other bimmers, and I am on a million man crusade to spead the ill word. I just need the other 999,999 men.[/sarcasm] :rofl:

Oh, and Rob- I know Tyrone is supposed to be calling you about the LTW flywheel. One of the questions he had was about idle noise- can you comment on that? I have heard an S/C E39 6 speed with one and it would drive me nutz. Do the heavier flywheels mean less idle noise? Would the Dinan one be the one with no idle noise, then? What is the best of both worlds- pefromance and sound- and why isn't someone making a quiet LTW flywheel?

Oh, and thanks for coming over for some questions. :thumbup:


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

I know the last thing on any E39 owner's mind is the COST of upgrades. Does anyone have any good data of a price comparison? The only one I know so far is VAC @ $1,500 and UUC @ $2,750. These prices are inclusive of both the flywheel and the clutch kit. At almost double, I am really hesitant to go with UUC even though I have called them once per month for the last four months waiting for their kit to come out. The price was not always double so that was why I was waiting.
What is the cost on the Dinan? I need to make a move on this.
JB


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Hey Prop... didn't you yell at me the last time I gave JZ some shiate???


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

PropellerHead said:


> Oh, and Rob- I know Tyrone is supposed to be calling you about the LTW flywheel. One of the questions he had was about idle noise- can you comment on that? I have heard an S/C E39 6 speed with one and it would drive me nutz. Do the heavier flywheels mean less idle noise? Would the Dinan one be the one with no idle noise, then? What is the best of both worlds- pefromance and sound- and why isn't someone making a quiet LTW flywheel?
> 
> Oh, and thanks for coming over for some questions. :thumbup:


Tyrone...? From where?

For pre-release info on the UUC Ultimate V8 flywheel/clutch assembly, send an e-mail to [email protected] and please specify if you have a 540i or M5.

As far as transmission rattle goes, there are a couple of things that I'm not spilling all the beans about just yet regarding our setup. The two beans that I will spill are that it is a sprung-hub design which is how BMW used to control power pulse variation-induced tranny rattle before moving to the failure-prone twin mass flywheels, and that the entire assembly itself is not "ulralight" - the entire flywheel/clutch assembly (all the rotating mass) is 13.5lbs lighter than stock, not as much as some of the 20lb-reduction "rattler" designs.

I won't guarantee no rattle at all - it would be foolish for anybody changing the design to promise that - but I will guarantee that at worst it will be an order of magnitude quieter than any other setup, and at best just about rattle-free. Variations in transmission wear, temp, and other factors cause this variation.

But bottom line, all the other offerings are still sticking with the OE-size clutch components. Although not as much a problem with the 540i as with the M5, the OE-size clutch is simply not up to the task of handling big power in the relatively heavy E39, nor is it very durable. The UUC setup remedies all of that.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

DSPTurtle said:


> I know the last thing on any E39 owner's mind is the COST of upgrades. Does anyone have any good data of a price comparison? The only one I know so far is VAC @ $1,500 and UUC @ $2,750. These prices are inclusive of both the flywheel and the clutch kit. At almost double, I am really hesitant to go with UUC even though I have called them once per month for the last four months waiting for their kit to come out. The price was not always double so that was why I was waiting.
> What is the cost on the Dinan? I need to make a move on this.
> JB


I cannot imagine that anybody at UUC was quoting anything remotely resembling a price until recently.

Heck, if you guys wanted to settle for a standard-size clutch disk and standard lightweight flywheel, we could ship 'em out as complete kits including clutch for under $1000. But that's not the sort of solution we were after.

Our concentration has been on the M5 setup, the 540 is a little different. We will be testing a production-quality 540i setup on Dave Z.'s car in 1-2 weeks, but then it may be another 2 weeks for production of additional units. If you really need a clutch before another month goes by, I cannot offer you a solution other than an uprated SPEC clutch kit at excellent pricing. If interested, please call me during the day for pricing.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

DSPTurtle said:


> Hey Prop... didn't you yell at me the last time I gave JZ some shiate???


Jz? I'm sure I don't know WHERE you get the idea my comments are directed ab any one person.. :angel:

But seriously... "A little jab here or there," (or something like that) I said.. We should all be man (or woman) enough to take it with a smile and jab back... We should also be human enought to express our apologies when one is needed.

and NO- I wasn't calling Jz a woman- that was for 'brina and Mel..


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## Tyrone (Apr 17, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I cannot imagine that anybody at UUC was quoting anything remotely resembling a price until recently.
> 
> Heck, if you guys wanted to settle for a standard-size clutch disk and standard lightweight flywheel, we could ship 'em out as complete kits including clutch for under $1000. But that's not the sort of solution we were after.
> 
> Our concentration has been on the M5 setup, the 540 is a little different. We will be testing a production-quality 540i setup on Dave Z.'s car in 1-2 weeks, but then it may be another 2 weeks for production of additional units. If you really need a clutch before another month goes by, I cannot offer you a solution other than an uprated SPEC clutch kit at excellent pricing. If interested, please call me during the day for pricing.


Hi Rob,

Tyrone here  You addressed here anything I would have asked you. Thanks.
I'm due for a clutch replacement so I was just evaluating the alternatives from a factory setup.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Does anyone have any experience on the VAC setup? I am ready to pull the trigger. My first choice was UUC but that is big $ so I will have to settle. Is VAC better than Dinan?
JB


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Honestly, that's believing the software marketing a bit too much.
> 
> I'll throw the ball back in your court, please answer this question: in strictly technical terms, what is it about adding a lightweight flywheel to an E39 do you think requires a software change?
> 
> ...


Rob your past business ethics show me no reason to even answer one of your questions. 
Funny how ever reputable tuner starts with the software first. But I know it does nothing.
You can argue this all day long, but it makes no difference what your opinion is, your not the one who is going to pay for any unscheduled or the cost to replace it. Pony up and warranty your parts in conjunction with the BMW warranty and then we can have a meaningful discussion.


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

PropellerHead said:


> [sarcasm]And don't forget- any time you mod the E39, you need to get ready for an $8,000 engine rebuild. There is simply no other way around it. It's fact. I will not present proof. None is needed because I know it's true. I wasted more money than any other person in the world, and that's what makes it fact. FACT, I tell you!
> 
> BMW sucks and I will be getting rid of my bimmers, my family's 300 other bimmers, and I am on a million man crusade to spead the ill word. I just need the other 999,999 men.[/sarcasm] :rofl:
> 
> ...


Its ok poofter boy, one day you will feel comfortable about your place in the world.


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

Looks to me like Rob posts well founded facts like OBDII solving a lot of the problems and even asks for more information to help in reasonable discourse. Another fact: I bought one of the 1st UUC adj short shifters and when it was too loud, Rob addressed my concerns and sent me one that is as quiet as stock. From my experience, he has great ethics.

Members of this board learned a long time ago that someone coming in making unfounded statements and then failing to back them up is worth about as much as Bimmerfest membership costs. The person making the statements has an inherant value, but it's often difficult to see it. Through perseverance and patience, we all get something from each other.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

I tried to call Dinan and could not even get anyone to speak with me. Tony at VAC spent 30 minutes on the phone with me. Apparantly their website is a little behind in showing what they have to offer. VAC has a LTW kit that includes the flywheel, a sprung hub clutch disc and the M5 pressure plate. It does not eliminate the noise, but supposedly it reduces it somewhat. It seems that the M5 pressure plate is a significant upgrade in clamping force over the stock 540 plate. They are finding out about availability right now... I think I may have found my answer. Oh by the way, it seems that the S/W upgrade that is offered, raises the idle to hide the noise. No known issues with the car stalling or problems holding the idle with the reduction in rotational mass.
Anyone have anything constructive to offer?
JB


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

PropellerHead said:


> Looks to me like Rob posts well founded facts like OBDII solving a lot of the problems and even asks for more information to help in reasonable discourse. Another fact: I bought one of the 1st UUC adj short shifters and when it was too loud, Rob addressed my concerns and sent me one that is as quiet as stock. From my experience, he has great ethics.
> 
> Members of this board learned a long time ago that someone coming in making unfounded statements and then failing to back them up is worth about as much as Bimmerfest membership costs. The person making the statements has an inherant value, but it's often difficult to see it. Through perseverance and patience, we all get something from each other.


You know so little, thats OK. You are the perfect customer for Rob, enjoy all that he has to offer. Go search the public records in Jersy, you will find a lot more then you think. While your at it, check the WV records for arrests. All my statements are true, you are going to find out the hard way.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Why is JZ allowed to turn every post into a pissing contest. F'in A!!! Go away... I need some real help here, not some idiot with a bunch of useless personal crap. FWIW I would buy the stuff from UUC after talking to Arjun on the phone and listening to all of my technical questions being answered. It is just too damn expensive. Now please, for the love of pete, can we get back to our regularly scheduled programming!!!
JB


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

DSPTurtle said:


> Why is JZ allowed to turn every post into a pissing contest. F'in A!!! Go away... I need some real help here, not some idiot with a bunch of useless personal crap. FWIW I would buy the stuff from UUC after talking to Arjun on the phone and listening to all of my technical questions being answered. It is just too damn expensive. Now please, for the love of pete, can we get back to our regularly scheduled programming!!!
> JB


I know, and I'm sorry for contributing. I think the best course of action for anyone affected may be to put an offensive person on his 'ignore' list. Since the only person on mine is a self-proclaimed Nazi (see posts 11, 13, and 18), my standards for taking that step are a bit higher than can be met by a harmless zealot.

My litmus for adding the (self proclaimed- means HE said the words- not ME) Nazi was to decide if I would ever want to hear anything he'd want to say. Working from there, if I heard it, and might desire to respond, would my response serve any real purpopse or affect any change? With the answer as 'No' to those questions, the decision to ignore was easy for me.

Again, I am only speaking about my decision regarding one person and offering the process up for your adaptation or rejection. It, like a mod or car color, or anything else is a personal decision that board members can make any time they wish.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

jzdinan540i said:


> You know so little, thats OK. You are the perfect customer for Rob, enjoy all that he has to offer. Go search the public records in Jersy, you will find a lot more then you think. While your at it, check the WV records for arrests. All my statements are true, you are going to find out the hard way.


 :tsk:

Post something that contributes something worthwhile to the 5 Series forum, or then go some where else. And you know where ...

:thumbdwn:

-


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Just sift your way thorugh it, JB. You can always put Jz on your ignore list and you will never see any of his posts. However, if someone replies to him and includes his post, you will see that. Remember, we are all allowed our opinions and they are worth what you pay for them. You get a lot of _free_ opinions here.... 

Chris


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## BrettInLJ (Oct 3, 2003)

What are the pros and cons of going with a peformance clutch. Would going with UUC or Dinan also mean that the clutch would not last as long as an OEM clutch?

Every BMW clutch I've had has lasted between 90k and 110k miles. When it comes time to replace the one on my '99 540i 6sp, how will the cost of these aftermarket solutions compare to an OEM clutch (put on by a independent shop of course).


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## DZeckhausen (Mar 11, 2003)

jzdinan540i said:


> Dinan has a slight rattle, its no big thing, just tranny lash. This is the only mod that offers a true bang for the buck and I am shocked more haven't done it. You will need software for this mod, so if you go to VAC or UUC I wonder how they would accomadate the s/w. I am sure they will tell you there is no reason to have the s/w adjusted, but any good salesman would say the same thing. Dinan is the only one with s/w.
> I had this mod done years ago, I was car #1 for Dinan and it was awesome, enjoy!


I think there must be some variation from car to car. My friend George Hillman (formerly a service writer at Open Road BMW, now an automotive journalist) has a 540i with the Dinan flywheel and it rattles like an old diesel Mercedes. His solution was to install an exhaust (I can't remember which one) that was so loud that you couldn't hear the rattle! 

One person's slight rattle can be someone else's trigger point for going postal. George loves his rattling Dinan flywheel and I can't stand the sound of it when he pulls into my driveway. I'm hoping this UUC flywheel has taken the noise to a low enough level that it won't bother me. I'll be testing it soon and without software, so I can report back how I like it. For me, the compelling reason for getting it was the improved clutch which, if it lives up to its promise, will last far longer than the stock clutch, yet be easily serviced with off-the-shelf parts if UUC ever goes away.

I have no business association with UUC, but was merely in the right place at the right time with a car they wanted to test. It didn't hurt that I was friends with Sunny Sabnani, their marketing guy, from way before he joined UUC and an acquiantance of Rob's from the NJ BMW Car Club meetings. Just want you to know that if I really like this flywheel/clutch assembly, you will hear about it. Likewise, if I hate it, it will come off the car and you'll know what I didn't like about it. I won't sugercoat my review.

As for the other stuff ... it may or may not be true, but it's not relevent to a discussion about flywheels. There are people here, myself included, who would be very interested in any information which could be shared about the interaction between a flywheel and the engine management software. The one thing that I would be most concerned about would be the engine stalling or dipping below idle speed briefly when coming off the throttle, particularly with AC and other accessories running. You can be sure I will test this, however, Sunny tells me this is NOT a problem on his 2001 M5. I'm not sure I would want my idle speed raised 200 RPM to hide a rattling problem.

As for the VAC flywheel, the only experience I've had with them is with a customer of mine who installed it, had a slipping clutch problem, they replaced it, the problem continued and they ended up sticking him with the problem. It cost him a tremendous amount of money for the installs and I think he ended up going back to stock. It was documented on Roadfly but, since I'm banned, I can't log in and search for it there. Perhaps someone else can find it and post the link. I don't know how that situation was ultimately resolved.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

I read about the guy on Roadfly... that has me a little worried. However, it seems like VAC tried to work with the guy... there are no posts as to how it was finally resolved.
I called about a Dinan setup... I had heard they were running a winter special of $1800. NOT TRUE. The local Dinan Authorized shop quoted $2995 for the parts, $700 for the labor (he really did not want to sell me parts only) and $700 for the software upgrade that is REQUIRED if you want to keep the warranty. That is $4,400 for a clutch and flywheel. 
I am really starting to think that people who price aftermarket parts for these cars are completely obnoxious. The stock parts can be had for about $1000. VAC is 50% more than that. UUC is 275% more than that and Dinan is over 400% more than that.
I understand all about the costs of design and low rate production... that is what I do for a living. However, from what I can tell none of these parts offer giant horsepower or even longevity to be able to amortize the huge up front investment. I replaced the flywheel in my 944 with a lightweight setup a few years back. Outstanding upgrade... which is why I want to do it now on my 540. The thing is, that was only like 25% more that price of stock replacement parts.
WTF???
JB


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Dave,

I believe that was Robin Yang, PUR NRG. Does that name ring a bell? If not, I know for a fat that he had some kind of flywheel (perhaps performance clutch, too, dunno) and VAC sure rings a bell and he had all kinds of problems with it. I'll see if I can email him and perhaps he can comment on this thread.

Chris


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## DKSF (Apr 4, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Dave,
> 
> I believe that was Robin Yang, PUR NRG. Does that name ring a bell? If not, I know for a fat that he had some kind of flywheel (perhaps performance clutch, too, dunno) and VAC sure rings a bell and he had all kinds of problems with it. I'll see if I can email him and perhaps he can comment on this thread.
> 
> Chris


Yeah, it was Robin (PUR NRG). You should be able to ping him over at the other place if you want to find out how it was finally resolved.


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## PUR NRG (Feb 27, 2004)

Yeah, that was/is me.

Short story: installed VAC lightweight flywheel and clutch kit. Broke in for 600 miles, tried a burnout. Clutch slipped big time. Replaced flywheel and fried pressure plate, same problem. VAC is willing to help with time but not money. Their current position is their parts are dimensionally identical to OEM parts, therefore there's nothing wrong with the kit. My position is I don't care what the dimensions are, the kit *as a whole* does not work for its intended application. Tony will not give a full refund, may consider a partial one. Overall I have found Tony usually doesn't return my calls and I had to call repeatedly (4+ times) to get a refund on the first flywheel. At this point I have spent more on labor than the VAC kit costs. Other people have positive experiences with the VAC setup but I haven't. That makes it an expensive gamble. I'd recommend exploring other options like RE, UUC or Dinan. As expensive as Dinan's stuff is, if I had bought that from the beginning I would have saved money and had a year's warranty to boot. But that's hindsight.

Regarding Dinan's software update, my understanding is the only change is to bump idle RPM up to 900. Not exactly a complicated change. I have not experienced any problems in this regard with the VAC setup.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

I guess I don't understand the failure method on your clutch. You say you did a "burnout." Did you sidestep the clutch at 4grand? 
How did the assembly work prior to the burnout? Was the motor more responsive? 
Did you go with the sprung hub disc upgrade?
From what Tony said, the clutch parts are from the M5 parts bin. In my case, I have no idea where the sprung hub disc comes from but i do know that the pressure plate is from an M5 setup and supposedly provides 50% more clamping force (more than one person told me that figure).
Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to figure out what to expect.
JB


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## PUR NRG (Feb 27, 2004)

I don't understand what you mean by "sidestep the clutch". 

Prior to the VAC kit I had the original OEM 540i clutch. From a stop I could rev up to 4000 RPM, release the clutch and stomp the gas to leave a rubber trail behind me until shifting into second. Trying to do the same thing with the VAC kit resulted in extreme clutch slip and a pronounced fried clutch smell. I'd get the same clutch slip if I went WOT in first gear, shifted into second at redline and went WOT again.

I did not experience either problem with the OEM clutch.

VAC's kit is their lightweight flywheel and an M5 pressure plate/friction disc. This is supposed to provide significantly more clamping force than the stock 540 setup. What I found was significantly *less clamping force*--otherwise why the clutch slip? Tony also offers an even higher clamping force pressure plate but I consider that a poor bandaid approach to my problem. If a pressure plate rated at 400 hp slips with an engine that puts out 300 hp, a stronger pressure plate may "fix" the problem but only by masking the original problem. I don't consider that an acceptable fix.


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## PUR NRG (Feb 27, 2004)

DSPTurtle said:


> Sorry for all the questions, but just trying to figure out what to expect.


That line makes it sound like you purchased the VAC flywheel kit? If the answer is yes then here is what you can expect:

1. Some people have installed it and experienced no problems. I have. I have no idea which category you will fall into, or why.
2. If you do install it and experience problems, you now have a used part with no warranty. You will also have to pay the same amount in labor to have it removed and replaced with something else.
3. If you do experience problems, I do not recommend trying to diagnose or fix the problem. I tried that and ended up spending more in labor than the VAC kit costs, which nothing to show for it. Don't follow me down that rat-hole. Cut your losses and get something else.

I hope you have better luck than me. Regardless, be sure to post follow-up info once you have the clutch replaced.


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Have you been able to resolve with VAC or are you guys still in the talking/diagnosing phase?

I usually do all of my own work but... this time, BMW will be doing the install since they are replacing the tranny. My tech seemed excited to install a LTW kit so he told me he would do it and only charge 1/2hr in labor since he will already have to have everything else pulled. I specifically asked VAC/Tony if this is a true bolt in replacement or does it need any "finish work". He said it is an exact bolt in. I was worried that if the BMW tech got wrapped around the axle on this install I woudl start accruing labor at $86/hr plus tax. He has assured me that the tech should not even break a sweat thinking about it being any different. I hope he is right. I don't really do a lot of burn outs... the tire bill is already bad enough. However, I do like to stomp it in 2nd gear so the three people riding comfortably in the car will get a little induced whiplash. I have upgraded the brakes, the suspension and hopefully soon the clutch in preparation for a little more horsepower 
JB


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## PUR NRG (Feb 27, 2004)

DSPTurtle said:


> I don't really do a lot of burn outs... I have upgraded the brakes, the suspension and hopefully soon the clutch in preparation for a little more horsepower


I don't do a lot of burn outs either. But it's a great way to easily test a clutch to see if it's working well. The VAC lightweight flywheel kit installed in my car fails this test. It can't handle 261 RWHP.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

jzdinan540i said:


> You know so little, thats OK. You are the perfect customer for Rob, enjoy all that he has to offer. Go search the public records in Jersy, you will find a lot more then you think. While your at it, check the WV records for arrests. All my statements are true, you are going to find out the hard way.


I have no idea where this vitriol came from, but I have a few things to say:

1) Go ahead and search the NJ public records... aside from some speeding tickets, you'll find one big messy lawsuit with _me_ suing someone else. I have no problem with you posting the court transcripts, I have _nothing_ to hide.

2) WV? Been there a few of times at Summit Point. No other involvement.

3) Anything else you'd say that's libelous, I ask that you post your address so my attorney can find you more easily.

Beyond that, if you're done being an internet tough guy, you can call me directly to discuss what you _think_ you know and we can talk like gentlemen. My number is 908-874-9092.


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> I have no idea where this vitriol came from, but I have a few things to say:
> 
> 1) Go ahead and search the NJ public records... aside from some speeding tickets, you'll find one big messy lawsuit with _me_ suing someone else. I have no problem with you posting the court transcripts, I have _nothing_ to hide.
> 
> ...


2) WV? Been there a few of times at Summit Point. No other involvement.

That was for another famous poster, not you. Sorry it wasn't clearr.
You never answered the warranty question. Why is it that after 6 months your SS kit froze up and had to be removed from my car? According to my dealership you refused to replace it. I went ahead and bought the Rogue kit and never had any problems.

I will never support a vendor who doesn't support his products. If you want you can send me a PM, I will give you the invoice, etc and you can search your records. Your tranny mounts haven't failed me yet, but that doesn't give me a good enough reason to ever buy your products again. I am sure most would agree. I think my comments are justified, and again for the record I apologize for not pointing out the West Virginia issue more clearly, but this had nothing to do with you or any other Vendor on BF, but a very obnoxious poster.


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## [email protected] (Mar 15, 2003)

jzdinan540i said:


> 2) WV? Been there a few of times at Summit Point. No other involvement.
> 
> That was for another famous poster, not you. Sorry it wasn't clearr..


It's probably a good idea to be clear when you're making accusations of a criminal record. _Extra_ clear.



jzdinan540i said:


> You never answered the warranty question. Why is it that after 6 months your SS kit froze up and had to be removed from my car? According to my dealership you refused to replace it. I went ahead and bought the Rogue kit and never had any problems.


Sorry, I missed that question.

I do not remember your particular situation, but it does not sound like anything that could be related to the shifter. Common sense applies here - there's nothing in a shifter assembly that can "freeze up".

No matter what, had there been a problem, we certainly would have taken care of it immediately. Refuse to replace it? Nonsense - we've performed service on shifters several years old for "good faith".

Please do contact me privately - [email protected] - I would be glad to look up your order and see if there are any notes I can review. And I'm serious about a phone call... there's nothing to be scared of, I assure you!


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> It's probably a good idea to be clear when you're making accusations of a criminal record. _Extra_ clear.
> 
> Sorry, I missed that question.
> 
> ...


I no longer own the car so its not like I expect anything. I can assure you the kit did completely feeze. It took 2 hands to yank the shifter into neutral so it could be towed in. The dealership is one of the largest in the nation and they are very familiar with all mods. It had somethig to do with the material that was used for the bushing and having it been exposed to winter temps.
I still have the EVO kit, if you want I will ship it to you and you can see what caused it.

I'll have some time towards the end of the week for a call.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WTF does this have to do with Turtle's thread? :dunno: 

:dunno: 


-


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## PropellerHead (Jan 3, 2002)

Patrick 520iAT said:


> WTF does this have to do with Turtle's thread? :dunno:
> 
> :dunno: -


Good question- threads do creep from time to time.

I DO wish Jz would tell us about West Virgina- I've never even driven through there. Who is it Jz? Give us a hint!


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## jzdinan540i (Nov 22, 2002)

PropellerHead said:


> Good question- threads do creep from time to time.
> 
> I DO wish Jz would tell us about West Virgina- I've never even driven through there. Who is it Jz? Give us a hint!


what's black and white and never around at night?

I will probably get sued if I say who it is :bigpimp:

Others around here know, so feel free to chime in fellas


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## DSPTurtle (Oct 4, 2003)

Why is he still here?


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