# Why should I purcase the '06 330i?



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

mdsbuc said:


> *I've never felt as connected to a car before. The standard response is "it feels like it's driving on rails". I had a Honda before this car. No comparison between the driving experience. iateyourcheese *
> 
> This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear.
> 
> ...


 Keep in mind that no BMW comes even into the vicinity of the precision of the RX-8. If power isn't a major concern, it's an absolutely dominant package.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> I think they're poorly made cars (the e46 ...)


:loco:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

mdsbuc said:


> I've been impressed by the Acura TL (6M)[/FONT]


Acura TL = front wheel drive = no fun = no sale.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Plaz said:


> :loco:


To each his own. I don't think germans make good, long lasting cars that are worth owning. my e46 is fun, but there's no way i'd own that POS.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

mdsbuc said:


> This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear.


This is lame. It seems to me you only want to hear comments favorable to the BMW here. Why bother asking for any sort of opinion when all you want to hear is a bunch of BMW owners circle jerk each other?

Honestly, if you need convincing to buy anything, it's not worth buying AT ALL. Sounds like you've made your decision already and all you're doing is looking for justification.

But hey, whatever floats your boat. Welcome to the BMW family. :thumbup:


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

*This is lame. It seems to me you only want to hear comments favorable to the BMW here. Why bother asking for any sort of opinion when all you want to hear is a bunch of BMW owners circle jerk each other? The HACK*

If you think it's lame then all you have to do is read the original post and leave. If you could read you would have noticed that I asked for both positive and negetive comments.

*Honestly, if you need convincing to buy anything, it's not worth buying AT ALL. Sounds like you've made your decision already and all you're doing is looking for justification.
The HACK*

If you notice, I'm about 3-4 months away from a purchase. I'm using this time to research. Experience that others have had can be helpful in making that decision down the road. I have not made my decision as yet and it probably won't happen until the time of purchase. I do know this, I'm not interested in your opinion and as far as I'm concerned you can return to your circle.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

mdsbuc said:


> If you think it's lame then all you have to do is read the original post and leave. If you could read you would have noticed that I asked for both positive and negetive comments.


Since you asked for positive and negative comments, I was playing devils advocate and giving you negative comments. Really, take my comment to heart. *If you need convincing to buy anything, it's not worth buying at all.*

Sounds to me like you don't want negative comments, from the way you react. :dunno: ...That's good, then you don't need convincing at all.

Hey, it's your money. Enjoy your new BMW. :thumbup:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> To each his own. I don't think germans make good, long lasting cars that are worth owning. my e46 is fun, but there's no way i'd own that POS.


You should start wearing pants again, because without them moped driving might be uncomfortable


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

mdsbuc said:


> .
> 
> *But it won't be nearly as much fun on an autocross circuit, which, if you've no plans to track or drive the car in an aggressive manner, won't matter to you.
> 
> ...


But that was my point; the other cars would give you plenty of "occasional fun" on the street and a lot more luxury for the money than ANY bimmer.

I'd bet a lot of the "majority of 330 i owners" you're referring to buy into the mark for reasons of prestige.

This "prestige" thing may very well be driving you, too. If so, stop asking questions and just buy the car.

Ed


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> You should start wearing pants again, because without them moped driving might be uncomfortable


Actually, with a good pair of boxers, a late night, pantsless ride on a moped is quite a charge. :thumbup:

"Why no officer, I am not happy to see you...why do you ask? Oh!"


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

mdsbuc said:


> If you notice, I'm about 3-4 months away from a purchase. I'm using this time to research. Experience that others have had can be helpful in making that decision down the road. I have not made my decision as yet and it probably won't happen until the time of purchase.


Really, would others' experiences shape what you buy? Seriously. I mean this is an enthusiasts' board. I think the ratio of manuals to autos in here is so whacky compared to the real sales of the two trannies that it's pretty clear we're not joe-blow Consumer Reports fodder. We're the guys who wash our cars weekly - some wax that often. We know when a tire is low as we pull out of the driveway - assuming we didn't test the pressure before pulling out. Oh, what was that, a slight sound from the middle rear of the car? Nobody else in the car heard it but it was there, dammit.

The best advice abut BMW - get thee to a dealership. I save it for last when helping friends car shop. My brother-in-law came from his test drive looking like he'd had a zippity doo-dah grin permantently etched on his face. He threw the keys to my sister and said, "Drive it." It was already a done deal.

Same with a different friend. We spent two days looking and then to BMW. She was cooked after that.

Neither one would listen to reason - bad service, poor electronics, lousy transmissions, etc. They knew they wanted the car - heart over reason.

Just drive it. That will either seal the deal or not. At this point it's really just mental masturbation. Either the car really does get your rocks off or you're destined for something else, something more sensible.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

EdCT said:


> But that was my point; the other cars would give you plenty of "occasional fun" on the street and a lot more luxury for the money than ANY bimmer.
> 
> I'd bet a lot of the "majority of 330 i owners" you're referring to buy into the mark for reasons of prestige.
> 
> ...


Ed, Prestige is not an issue. It's just about the car. Remember the three most important things to me were build quality, safety, and fun. Is luxary important to me? To a point 
yes, but it's further down my list of priorities. Some things I have become accustomed to as far as luxary and expect in a car. BMW seems to have all the bases covered for me in that regard.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

The HACK said:


> Since you asked for positive and negative comments, I was playing devils advocate and giving you negative comments. Really, take my comment to heart. *If you need convincing to buy anything, it's not worth buying at all.*
> 
> Sounds to me like you don't want negative comments, from the way you react. :dunno: ...That's good, then you don't need convincing at all.
> 
> Hey, it's your money. Enjoy your new BMW. :thumbup:


Hack, O.K., I'll take your word about playing the Devil's Advocate. So far the only vehicle I've driven in this group is the RX8. I totally loved this car after the drive. I finally wrote it off my list after reading about some of the issues from owners. These issues are not minor in my opinion and I discussed them earlier. I'm probably about 3-4 months away from being in a financial position to buy the car. I have checked out the other three vehicles by checking them out on dealer lots and by reading forums of the same. Test drives will come as I get closer to the purchase date. Yes I am leaning heavily toward the new 330i. If I do buy it when the time comes, I am pretty sure you will be able to count me as one of the "enthusiasts."
'


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> To each his own. I don't think germans make good, long lasting cars that are worth owning. my e46 is fun, but there's no way i'd own that POS.


Shall I tell the story about my buddy's POS Camry and, among other things, how the dealer wanted to rebuild his engine for what we eventually traced to a defective PCV valve? He still regrets selling his E28 528e that another friend is still putting on 40k miles/year.

Or a neighbor wth over 400k miles on Jetta with minimal maintenance. He finally junked it because all the original suspension bushing were worn out and he didn't feel like fixing them. The engine still ran fine, never having seen a rebuild.

BMW's have their maintenance needs, but what sold me (besides the test drive and looks) was riding in my friends' high mileage BMW's. At over 100k miles, they still drive better than most new cars I've driven. Don't confuse reliability with durability.


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## Nbtstatic (Oct 9, 2002)

330ci: Most beautiful and absolute funnest car I've ever had the privilege of owning. This is my second one, and I'm anxiously awaiting the e90 coupe for a third helping.  

Go drive one, that's all it takes.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

mdsbuc said:


> Hack, O.K., I'll take your word about playing the Devil's Advocate. So far the only vehicle I've driven in this group is the RX8. I totally loved this car after the drive. I finally wrote it off my list after reading about some of the issues from owners. These issues are not minor in my opinion and I discussed them earlier. I'm probably about 3-4 months away from being in a financial position to buy the car. I have checked out the other three vehicles by checking them out on dealer lots and by reading forums of the same. Test drives will come as I get closer to the purchase date. Yes I am leaning heavily toward the new 330i. If I do buy it when the time comes, I am pretty sure you will be able to count me as one of the "enthusiasts."
> '


If you're basing your purchase decisions on the fact that owners complain about certain problems on a vehicle on an internet forum, you are NOT going to be buying the BMW. Search in the 3 series forum and you'll find that the 330i suffers from:

Bad window regulator
Stalling issues
Hesitation at 4,000 rpm
Crappy clutch
Automatic transmission problems
Bad ignition coil
AM reception problems
Felt liner on the window coming apart after a few years
Oil consumption as much as 1 quart ever few thousand miles

What you have to realize, is that people only report negative aspects of car ownership on these forums. I'm sure you'll find just as many RX-8 owners that have had excellent ownership experience and not a single problem with their car. The internet tend to blow *everything* out of proportion. You must keep in mind that these "failures" rate on the magnitude of 1-5 minor problems every 100 cars and that most cars rolling out of modern factories are relatively worry free...But you'll never hear about it since those guys without the problem on their cars don't voice their "displeasure". Remember, squeaky wheel gets greased.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from buying a BMW. I'm pointing out that basing your "purchase" on a bunch of faceless posters on an internet may not be your best and wisest purchase decision. Frankly I've had 4 late generation BMWs totalling over 200,000 miles driven in the last 8 years, and none of the cars gave me any trouble that I didn't expect, and I fully enjoyed every single one and was incredibly difficult in letting two of them go. I can guarantee you will not be disappointed in a BMW 330i...But PLEASE buy it for the right reasons, not because some guy name "The HACK" who pretends to have owned 4 BMWs says you should buy it.

The last thing I will say, is that if read the Lexus forums regularly you'd be shocked as to why JD Powers and Assoc picked it as the most reliable car, because it seems that all they ever do is complain about such and such breaking on their Lexus. Don't believe everything you read on an internet forum.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

cwsqbm said:


> Shall I tell the story about my buddy's POS Camry and, among other things, how the dealer wanted to rebuild his engine for what we eventually traced to a defective PCV valve? He still regrets selling his E28 528e that another friend is still putting on 40k miles/year.
> 
> Or a neighbor wth over 400k miles on Jetta with minimal maintenance. He finally junked it because all the original suspension bushing were worn out and he didn't feel like fixing them. The engine still ran fine, never having seen a rebuild.
> 
> BMW's have their maintenance needs, but what sold me (besides the test drive and looks) was riding in my friends' high mileage BMW's. At over 100k miles, they still drive better than most new cars I've driven. Don't confuse reliability with durability.


wow, anecdotes prove everything. my mom can to point her old camaro as proof one will run past 200k miles. doesn't suddenly make GMs good cars. there's always gonna be outliers.

durability and reliabilty are the same thing in my eyes, if a car is unreliable then it will always get replacement parts. yeah it can last forever if you keep putting in new parts. like any machine, you can replace everything but that doesn't mean the machine is reliable.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

cwsqbm said:


> BMW's have their maintenance needs, but what sold me (besides the test drive and looks) was riding in my friends' high mileage BMW's. At over 100k miles, they still drive better than most new cars I've driven. Don't confuse reliability with durability.


I've found the same thing with the Volvos I have owned and I tend to put a lot of miles on my vehicles.


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## sky (Aug 22, 2003)

mdsbuc said:


> I'm hoping to buy a new vehicle in about 3-4 months. For the longest time I was sure that my next car was going to be an RX8. Lately I've been thinking that there are just too many issues with this car. I've been impressed by the Acura TL (6M) and the Infinity G35 sedan ( also with 6M). BMWs have never really caught my eye before but was recommendet to me by my son. The offer by BMW of the European Delivery option has really gotten my attention but I still need to be convinced of the value of this vehicle over the others I have mentioned. I could really use you owners as a sounding board. Things that I am most interrested in are 1) Build Quality 2) Safety 3) Fun factor. Any bit of input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, MDSBUC


If you're thinking about buying a FIRST year BMW model, I would recommend
that you think it over. All manufacterers will have teething problems the first
year a new model comes out. If you purchase it, you'll be their guinea pig.
And BMW's aren't really known for reliability.

Safety and fun factor, on the other hand, BMW is way up there.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

The HACK said:


> If you're basing your purchase decisions on the fact that owners complain about certain problems on a vehicle on an internet forum, you are NOT going to be buying the BMW. Search in the 3 series forum and you'll find that the 330i suffers from:
> 
> Bad window regulator
> Stalling issues
> ...


Hack, I agree with everything you are saying. I understand cars have issues and none
is perfect. I have a 2003 Honda Accord EX w/ 5sp manual transmission (I can't believe how hard it is to find a car with a stick today.) With well over a hundred Accords on the lot, maybe 200, it was the only one with one.) Within the first thirty thousand miles I have replaced all the brakes (not just a normal brake job), replaced the catalytic converter. The radio was replaced at 40,000 miles. The radio worked fine but contains an LED lamp that illuminates all the controls and LED displays on the center console. It would not light. I was told that the lamp was an unserviceable part and the radio would have to be replaced. The cost for a new radio I was told would be $725 for the part and $70 to install. Honda was decent and told me that since I had done all my service with them and so forth, they would share in the cost and only charged me $183.

This seems like a lot of problems for a 26 month old car, but would not keep me from buying another Honda product. That's why the TL is still on my short list. The RX8 on the other hand has a flooding issue that poses a serious safety issue and a major inconvenience not to a few, but to pretty substantial numbers. Fuel mileage also seems to be an issue to many- though I could maybe live with that. Also, on the side of practicality I realized I prefer more of an everyday family hauler that can also provide a bit of fun.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

cruztopless said:


> Welcome mdsbuc!
> 
> Don't forget to check out the Euro Delivery forum. After my experience it will be a disappointment if I can't purchase my next car this way. Although if the dollar doesn't improve against the Euro I may be FORCED to purchase locally.
> 
> ...


I can't agree more. With all the apparent great handling, it doesn't seem to lack in the luxury department either.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

wingspan said:


> I think the answer depends on what you mean by these terms.
> 
> Build Quality - Are you looking for an objective or a subjective measurement? How? There are lots of places to look for data (CU, JD Power, etc.) Plus lots of anecdotal evidende on internet message boards. What's an example of a car with "Build Quality?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome Wingspan!

Concerning build quality- Because of available material from CU, JD Power,etc., I'm looking for a subjective sampling of responses. Things like squeaks, rattles, and the host of things that can go wrong in a car. Just about everyone is going to have a problem with one thing or another and I understand that, but if a host of problems keeps popping up over and over again I might think twice about a vehicle.

As to Safety it's probably pretty much the same thing since we have crash test reports available as well. On the RX8 web sites (and as new as that vehicle is) I would see reports like "My baby was rear ended last night, but the good thing is the safety features worked the way they were supposed to. The rear end crumple zone compacted just the way it was supposed to and the passenger compartment was totally protected." Things like that are subjective little reports that will help with a decision.

Fun factor- totally subjective!


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

mdsbuc said:


> Thanks for the welcome Wingspan!
> 
> Concerning build quality- Because of available material from CU, JD Power,etc., I'm looking for a subjective sampling of responses. Things like squeaks, rattles, and the host of things that can go wrong in a car. Just about everyone is going to have a problem with one thing or another and I understand that, but if a host of problems keeps popping up over and over again I might think twice about a vehicle.
> 
> ...


Ok, sure, I get what you are after.

1) Build quality - Here's my subjective input, sample of two: Personal Car: 2003 E46 330i, bought new Sep 03. No squeaks or rattles in mine. Nothing has gone wrong. Mileage is now 13800 and I will be doing the first service sometime in the next month. Company Car: 2001 E46 318i, "inherited" from previous lessee. 62,000 miles. Also squeak and rattle free. I have only driven it about a K. It presently has a problem holding w/w fluid since it all drains out. Suspect crack in bottle. I have no previous history on this car.

2) Safety - I will surely regret saying this, but in 20+ years driving I've never been in an accident, so I can't tell you how my car has fared. I do know that of the two E46's I've driven extensively (my personal car and a car my company provides me in the UK) they both feel very solidly built, for whatever that's worth. Before the Bimmer I drove a 99 C280 and the Bimmer feels "slightly" less solid (the MBZ felt like it was carved from stone, and drove like it too :bigpimp: ). Before that were 4 Honda Accords and 1 Honda Civic; all of them were fine reliable cars but compared to the Bimmer they felt pretty "tinny" i.e. if you drove over a railway sleeper the whole car kind of "shook" like half the welds were not done up properly. Hard to explain.

3) Fun factor - Agree - highly subjective, but both cars are very fun (for me!) to drive...In this wierd way the E46 drives like a big version of my (1967 Austin) Mini Cooper S...RWD and all. I think its the steering, handling and roadholding BMW engineers into the chassis that set it apart. The Mini and Bimmer driving experiences are surprisingly similar; the Mini has "Fun" aplenty, laser sharp steering (it should - there is one joint between the steering wheel and the rack) with independent front and rear suspension. The combination of the trailing arm rear suspension kills the rear grip on cornering, but the FWD cancels it out resulting in a highly tossable car. Its definitely the most fun you can have with 76 BHP. The BMW is kind of like that, but obviously gets there with struts up front and much more control of the rear suspension with the multi-link design. Of course with 235 BHP there's a bit of difference in a straight line... 

Good luck with your choice, and, even if you do not end up with a bimmer, please stick around the fest, its a pretty cool place to hang...


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Test_Engineer said:


> Isn't BMW boasting about their retention of value in their latestest commercials? :dunno:


They may boast all they want but it seems like it's all misleading to me. my 25k mile 03 330i zhp is worth maybe 27-28k on the open market right now. that's 15-16k off the msrp in less than 2 years! I'm losing 7-8k a year in value on the car. BMW thinks it'll be worth 25k in 06 with 45k miles on it...so in the next year it's only gonna drop another 2-3k with 20k more miles on it? believe that and I've got a bridge to sell ya.


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## Jalli (Jan 10, 2005)

BMW does have the highest value retention rate. Before someone blows steam out of their ass and tells me I've been brainwashed let me just tell you where this comes from. My dad sells about 320 cars a month (50-75 BMW) wholesale to dealers. He loves to buy BMW because he knows that he can get money for it. Acura's just won't hold value, especially when you are selling to people who know cars (FWD :rofl: ) .

Sure, BMW's have had their problems, but they are usually dealt with to everyone's satisfaction. As for BMW being less luxurious, that may be true. If you want a cabin with more buttons than a 777 buy the Acura. If you want the interior of your car to be lit up like you've got Christmas lights in your dash, buy the Acura. BMW tends to focus on luxury as a secondary factor, after all you are driving the car, not your leather seat.

Some of you may not that I have gotten rid of the 03 325. The reason was that it had an annoying auto tranny fault, which my dealer took care of by replacing the tranny in three days. The car drove fine, but I had the bad R-D gear change issue. During this time period, my dad came upon my 01 fully loaded Boxster for a very good price. *I drove the BMW and put 7000 miles on it, and we actually made money when we sold it. *

My final rant : If you want a real car with elegance buy the BMW, if you want a car with 300 buttons that lights up like Times Square by all means buy Japanese. Many posters have pointed out that you won't notice the difference in driving feel. This is not true, you can notice the difference the first time you pull out of a parking space.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

wingspan said:


> Ok, sure, I get what you are after.
> 
> 1) Build quality - Here's my subjective input, sample of two: Personal Car: 2003 E46 330i, bought new Sep 03. No squeaks or rattles in mine. Nothing has gone wrong. Mileage is now 13800 and I will be doing the first service sometime in the next month. Company Car: 2001 E46 318i, "inherited" from previous lessee. 62,000 miles. Also squeak and rattle free. I have only driven it about a K. It presently has a problem holding w/w fluid since it all drains out. Suspect crack in bottle. I have no previous history on this car.
> 
> ...


Thanks Wingspan for all the input. As far as the safety comment I know what you mean. When I say something like that (and notice) I find a good solid piece of wood and give it a couple of hard raps!


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

mdsbuc said:


> Dave, I'm sure there are going to be a ton of folks to disagree with you about a BMW not being a good value. Value doesn't mean cheep. It means you get bang for your buck. With the fun factor figured in, it seems to me that a lot of owners are getting bang for their $$$.


I really think those guys you are referring to are a minority. If I had to assess the BMW drivers I see daily, probably including me, the majority of them buy the car for its reputation, not the "fun"factor. Guys who participate in forums and call themselves enthusiasts are in the minority of why they bought their BMWs. I would guess they are 5-10% at best. Fortunately, BMW built its reputation from us guys. But, of course, everyone enjoys his car. I do not consider my BMW an appliance that is used solely from going point A to point B.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Since you're considering hte e90, I really odn't know how relevant any of our comments will be. The reasons I chose a BMW were pretty simple:
1. availability of stick in a 4 door
2. RWD (even in somewhat normal driving, I really notice the front weight bias on FWD cars)
3. interior/exeterior design
4. solid feel

Most would-be competitors failed 3 & 4. Personally, I haven't had too many problems of note. I've had some rattles that I fixed myself w/ some felt. After seeing the e90 interior, it looks to be a bit more solid than the e46 interior.

Even though I know a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti will statistically be more reliable (and probably more durable), they have some other fatal flaw that I can't forgive. THat being said, if you're going to wait 3-4 months, I'd take a close look at the new Lexus IS250/350. It looks well designed, and I bet that it will drive on par w/ an e46 (Lexus tends to be 1 gen behind BMW because they always benchmark the current car). I'd give it a close look before you make a final decision. To me it may be the most worthy competitor yet. And, just to be clear, I am NOT talking about the current IS. The new IS is nothing like the current IS except that they'r both RWD. 

In terms of safety, I think almost all new cars in a given size class are very safe. The safest car tends to be the newest design. So, the e46 was up there in temrs of safety for its day, and I'm sure the e90 will be a star performer for a year or 2. Then, in a few years it won't look as good. The days of completely unsafe cars are pretty much over. Some people will point out that a BMWs extra agility and braking adds another margin of safety too. Maybe. 

In terms of quality, I think the e46 has a good powertrain (w/ a manual trans). Its very rare (even on internet boards) to read of situations where someone is stranded by there car The things that seem to go wroing (and I'm sure the list will be similar on the e90 are):
-various squeaks and rattles. I think the e90 may be better in this regard
-window regulators (not the window motors, just the regulators). Who knows if BMW will finally fix this in the e90. This is perhaps the most widespread and annoying issue on the e46.
-various sensor failures-- likely to continue in the e90
-suspension bushings-- the suspension bushings wear very fast on the e46. Its likely due to the design of the suspension. The e90 has a slightly different design (both front and rear), so these problems may be lessened.
-Rear subframe tears out of rear floor. Although this issue isn't a widespread occurence, it happens more than it should. But, the consensus is that its due to the rear suspension design of the e46 (and e36) that puts to much strain on 1 particular subframe mounting point. Since hte e90 has a new suspensino design, this problem may finally go away for good. 
-variosu cooling system weaknesses (fan, thermostat, water pumpt, radiator). These have mostly been corrected over the years. But, BMW seems to enjoy engineering sub-par cooling systems for some reason (i'm being sarcastic). I don't trust the e90's electronically controlled thermostat given BMW's track record in this area. 
-For the most part, all other problems you'll read about seem to be confied to certain years, models or just particular cars.

Ifi I had to bet, I think the e90 will likely have more problems, atleast initally, with the engine than the 46 ever did. Its a new design that relies even mre on electronics, advanced manufacturing techniques and sensors. THe Valvetronic mecahnism is fairly complex (although I've yet to read of a Valvetronic related problems on the V8s that have been out for a few years now). 
I'm hoping that we may be entering a "levelling-off" phase in terms of electronically-related defects for a few years. The e90 could very well end up being an improvement over the e46 in terms of quality. I'm hopeful that it wil.

If you go into your purchase with open eyes (expect problems and poor dealer service), but with a real appreciation for the design and handling of the car, I think you'll end up enjoying the car. I think people that end up being the most unhappy are those that buy into the "BMW mystiquie" and "prestige" and think the whole ownership experience is going to be flowers and roses. It won't be. Personally, I think that the aesthetics of a car can go a long way toward making you forgive its problems. I really like the way my ee46 looks, and it sounds like you really like the e90's design. That "emotional" attachement wil help carry you through the more annoying aspects of ownership.


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## mdsbuc (Mar 17, 2005)

robg- thanks for the great post, well written and very informative. Reasons 1,3,4 of why you made your purchase are also very important to me. Reason 2 is becoming more important and actually had me leaning toward the G35 over the TL. Lexus for some reason just doesn't seem to make my heart flutter. When I chose my Accord in "03 over the Camry and Avalon it was because the Accord gave me a much better "seat of the pants" feel for the road than its competitors.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> They may boast all they want but it seems like it's all misleading to me. my 25k mile 03 330i zhp is worth maybe 27-28k on the open market right now. that's 15-16k off the msrp in less than 2 years! I'm losing 7-8k a year in value on the car. BMW thinks it'll be worth 25k in 06 with 45k miles on it...so in the next year it's only gonna drop another 2-3k with 20k more miles on it? believe that and I've got a bridge to sell ya.


3 series resale seems to have really tanked in the last year or two, and a lot of people haven't adjusted their thinking.

But I've been looking casually for used ZHPs, and ones like yours are asking $32k-34k right now. Maybe I could find one for $28k, but it wouldn't be easy. $30k is more like it. But $30k is not cheap enough for me yet, when a new 2005 is $36-37k.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> 3 series resale seems to have really tanked in the last year or two, and a lot of people haven't adjusted their thinking.
> 
> But I've been looking casually for used ZHPs, and ones like yours are asking $32k-34k right now. Maybe I could find one for $28k, but it wouldn't be easy. $30k is more like it. But $30k is not cheap enough for me yet, when a new 2005 is $36-37k.


edmunds has my car pegged at 27-28k. edmunds is usually too high, imho. so i'd be shocked to see the car go for that much. :dunno:

the private sellers you see at 30k+ have probably had the car for sale for a long time or they just put it up and they're waiting...


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

mdsbuc said:


> Lexus for some reason just doesn't seem to make my heart flutter. When I chose my Accord in "03 over the Camry and Avalon it was because the Accord gave me a much better "seat of the pants" feel for the road than its competitors.


Yes, but please keep in mind that I"m not talking about "Lexus" in general, but 1 particular model. If you were to consider an ES or an LS, it would definitely be lacking in that "seat of hte pants" feeling. But Toyota specifically developed the IS to fight BMW. I wouldn't underestimate Toyota's ability to beat somone else at their own game. You can be sure that they disassembled an e46, imporved it, and then built the IS. Will it set any new "benchmarks", probably not. But will it likely do a pretty good rendition of an e46 w/ better reliabiliy-- almost certainly. Will hte e90 likely handle better? Yes, slightly. But, please atleast consider the new IS when it comes out. Its not going to be typical Lexus or Toyota, so don't pre-judge it based on you r epxiereinces with Camrys, Avalons, ES330s, LS430s, etc. I haven't driven it yet, but I have a feeling that I"d be hard-pressed to choose an e90 over this car. This is the first BMW competitor that I can say this about. If it rdrives 80% as well as the e90, I'd buy it over the e90.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

rumratt said:


> Then explain my 15 year old 325is with 150K miles that still runs strong, makes a fun daily driver, autox vehicle, or track car. Oh, and it's sought after enough that they're hard to find for sale on the east coast, and when one pops up, it usually sells within a few days.
> 
> Definitely not a long lasting car worth owning.


Why is it you people whip out your anecdotes as if this proves something?

Great and if a good condition MGB comes on the market it goes fast too...but that doesn't prove the cars were well made. They're sought after. There's a big difference.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> edmunds has my car pegged at 27-28k. edmunds is usually too high, imho. so i'd be shocked to see the car go for that much. :dunno:
> 
> the private sellers you see at 30k+ have probably had the car for sale for a long time or they just put it up and they're waiting...


While I can't tell sale prices, I can say there's only one ZHP i've ever seen offered under $30k, a guy on here I think.

There's no question BMWs run a long time, and run well despite the age. But so much of the life of cars is determined by the owner's behavior rather than the carmaker. A lot of owners of American and cheap Japanese cars don't spend any money on maintenance, and they go to ****.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Dawg90 said:


> While I can't tell sale prices, I can say there's only one ZHP i've ever seen offered under $30k, a guy on here I think.
> 
> There's no question BMWs run a long time, and run well despite the age. But so much of the life of cars is determined by the owner's behavior rather than the carmaker. A lot of owners of American and cheap Japanese cars don't spend any money on maintenance, and they go to ****.


There's a cat in san diego with an 03 zhp for sale for 30k on autotrader. i'll give him a call one day and ask how long it's been up for sale.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> Why is it you people whip out your anecdotes as if this proves something?


"'Scuse me while I whip this out."


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## Alamo (Sep 17, 2004)

mdsbuc said:


> I'm hoping to buy a new vehicle in about 3-4 months. For the longest time I was sure that my next car was going to be an RX8. Lately I've been thinking that there are just too many issues with this car. I've been impressed by the Acura TL (6M) and the Infinity G35 sedan ( also with 6M). BMWs have never really caught my eye before but was recommendet to me by my son. The offer by BMW of the European Delivery option has really gotten my attention but I still need to be convinced of the value of this vehicle over the others I have mentioned. I could really use you owners as a sounding board. Things that I am most interrested in are 1) Build Quality 2) Safety 3) Fun factor. Any bit of input would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks, MDSBUC


To help the world economy


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Plaz said:


> "'Scuse me while I whip this out."


EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Plaz said:


> "'Scuse me while I whip this out."


"Oh boys . . . Where da white women at?"


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