# New LS 460



## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

*Lexus!*



oholness said:


> I'll be damn if I pay 50,000+ for a Toyota :tsk: and Toyota/Lexus need to take lessons from BMW and just maybe they might start making a car that dosn't drives like a Toyota :thumbdwn:


I think its the other way around buddy BMW needss to do that. . .improve CS, reliability and design!
Lexus has everything except the performance figures. . .as far as handling goes most of Lexus vehicles are never meant to be really sporty unlike Bmws!


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## oholness (Nov 29, 2005)

DON'T FORGET, THE FREAKIN  RX330 OR WHATEVER IS NOTHING MORE THAN A  TOYOTA HIGHLANDER! GET IT RIGHT :bawling: THE GX470=LANDCRUSER, AND THAT OTHER ONE= NOTHING BUT A 4RUNNER. INFACT IF YOU GO TO EUROPE OR SOME ISLANDS GUESS WHAT THESE LUXUS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? ALL WEARE TOYOTA BADGES :thumbdwn: SO COULD THOSE JAPAN BIG-HEADS BE CALLING US STUPID ASSES OR WHAT?


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

oholness said:


> DON'T FORGET, THE FREAKIN  RX330 OR WHATEVER IS NOTHING MORE THAN A  TOYOTA HIGHLANDER! GET IT RIGHT :bawling: THE GX470=LANDCRUSER, AND THAT OTHER ONE= NOTHING BUT A 4RUNNER. INFACT IF YOU GO TO EUROPE OR SOME ISLANDS GUESS WHAT THESE LUXUS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? ALL WEARE TOYOTA BADGES :thumbdwn: SO COULD THOSE JAPAN BIG-HEADS BE CALLING US STUPID ASSES OR WHAT?


Hey easy there with the capitals.... the GX470 is the upscale version of the SEQUOIA and LX470 is the upscale version of the Landcruiser (which is still the undisputed leader or the Lion of the jungle if u will. . . when it comes to off-roading. . . and I have lived in cities where there is desert and hot weather for miles and miles until the horizon fades away......buddy nothing drives better there. . .. no X5, ML's, G500's, Porsche Cayennes etc. is able to drive in that weather off-road other then your LX470-LandCruiser :bigpimp: It has the state of the art 4 X 4 system and bullet proof reliability. . .cuz trust me when you are going offroading the last thing u want is the comp system in your vehicle having a glitch...and next thing u know ....you are stuck in the middle of no where :dunno: . . .so plz THINK before you say that kind of stuff about the LX470 and the LANDCRUISER! :thumbup: )

And yes the GS-series in Japan is called Aristo. . .and there is no lexus brand in japan, in europe as u mentioned above and other parts of the world.

However, its going to take you sometime to digest that Toyota with Lexus has come a long way with what they are engineering and manufacturing. . . and soon will be breaking further into the BMW/Mercedes market!

Have you forgotten Toyota's Supra? do you have BMW's that comes close to its performance. . .after its twin turbo is supercharged which creates a whopping 1200bhp! 
okay dont get me wrong some M-class models may be able to create that kind of power. . . but hey give toyota and lexus credit where they deserve it man. . .stop being a FREAKING SNOB and a complete DELINQUENT by makin comments like those abOVE!


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## oholness (Nov 29, 2005)

bimmer7 said:


> Hey easy there with the capitals.... the GX470 is the upscale version of the SEQUOIA and LX470 is the upscale version of the Landcruiser (which is still the undisputed leader or the Lion of the jungle if u will. . . when it comes to off-roading. . . and I have lived in cities where there is desert and hot weather for miles and miles until the horizon fades away......buddy nothing drives better there. . .. no X5, ML's, G500's, Porsche Cayennes etc. is able to drive in that weather off-road other then your LX470-LandCruiser :bigpimp: It has the state of the art 4 X 4 system and bullet proof reliability. . .cuz trust me when you are going offroading the last thing u want is the comp system in your vehicle having a glitch...and next thing u know ....you are stuck in the middle of no where :dunno: . . .so plz THINK before you say that kind of stuff about the LX470 and the LANDCRUISER! :thumbup: )
> 
> And yes the GS-series in Japan is called Aristo. . .and there is no lexus brand in japan, in europe as u mentioned above and other parts of the world.
> 
> ...


The GX470 is the 4Runner, my mistake


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

That car is bland. Bland as unbuttered toast.

All the big luxoboats are styled so they stand out. Love them or hate them.

But this thing is flat. Flat as an 11-year-old girl.

Disappointing since the new IS and GS are handsome autos, and big improvements over their predecessors.


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## oholness (Nov 29, 2005)

bimmer7 said:


> Hey easy there with the capitals.... the GX470 is the upscale version of the SEQUOIA and LX470 is the upscale version of the Landcruiser (which is still the undisputed leader or the Lion of the jungle if u will. . . when it comes to off-roading. . . and I have lived in cities where there is desert and hot weather for miles and miles until the horizon fades away......buddy nothing drives better there. . .. no X5, ML's, G500's, Porsche Cayennes etc. is able to drive in that weather off-road other then your LX470-LandCruiser :bigpimp: It has the state of the art 4 X 4 system and bullet proof reliability. . .cuz trust me when you are going offroading the last thing u want is the comp system in your vehicle having a glitch...and next thing u know ....you are stuck in the middle of no where :dunno: . . .so plz THINK before you say that kind of stuff about the LX470 and the LANDCRUISER! :thumbup: )
> 
> And yes the GS-series in Japan is called Aristo. . .and there is no lexus brand in japan, in europe as u mentioned above and other parts of the world.
> 
> ...


Lexus has come a lone way and they do make good cars, but if they havn't broken into the market as you said as yet, then they need a new LS, and for the record I used to love the Landcruser so much that I owned one untill they changed it and made crap! why doe's car makers do that? the Landcruser and the LX are not do good here at all (sales). 
It's also clear you don't live in the USA and it's also clear that maybe you people get better Toyotas than we do. and for the record- at least 95% :yikes: or more of the SUV's sold in the USA don't get to see offroading :thumbdwn: these people go for style, anyway, good luck in your jungle!

ur and idiot too! how about BMW the only one on the market who has a ass kickin car and don't have to use a TURBO TO PUT OUT 500+ HP, put a non TURBO supra next to a M5 and watch it goes backwards, and do they have anything like an M5. NO CREDIT, NO RESPECT, LEXUS I MEAN TOYOTA :bawling:


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## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

I find it funny that both BMW and Lexus cannot focus on more than one thing at a time.

BMW focuses on performance and forgets about quality.

Lexus focuses on quality and forgets about style.

Go figure. :dunno:



philippek said:


> That car is bland. Bland as unbuttered toast.
> 
> All the big luxoboats are styled so they stand out. Love them or hate them.
> 
> ...


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## 3soon2B5 (Nov 18, 2005)

*Apples to Oranges*

Simply put, the Lexus LS is for a different audience. I have a 330i and my dad has an LS430. Neither of us ever desire to borrow the other's car, but we appreciate the virtues of each.

I don't know about the new model, but the LS has never had any pretense of being a "driver's car". They are not aimed at BMW, they are aimed at Mercedes.

Lexus is simply a highly evolved, ultra-reliable version of Mercedes. Lexus represents what Mercedes would [still] be today if they hadn't started engineering to a price point back in 1993. Sure, the ride is a lot creamier...but that is a good thing. Mercedes always had a firm ride, but never the handling prowess or perfect weight distribution of a BMW.

The Lexus LS, while never the best choice for a curvy road (unlike the 7), appeals to the guy who used to drive a Mercedes for the durability and quality but always longed for the ride quality of the Town Car he traded in. Lexus drivers are not looking for the ultimate driving machine. They are more than content to have the ultimate comfort machine...a promise that the LS430 fulfills in spades. Rumor has it the GS has tried to be more involving for the driver at the cost of noise isolation and ride. I think this is a mistake. I hope Lexus stays focused on its unique strengths and keeps the LS460 as fluffy and isolated as its predecessor.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

oholness said:


> Lexus has come a lone way and they do make good cars, but if they havn't broken into the market as you said as yet, then they need a new LS, and for the record I used to love the Landcruser so much that I owned one untill they changed it and made crap! why doe's car makers do that? the Landcruser and the LX are not do good here at all (sales).
> It's also clear you don't live in the USA and it's also clear that maybe you people get better Toyotas than we do. and for the record- at least 95% :yikes: or more of the SUV's sold in the USA don't get to see offroading :thumbdwn: these people go for style, anyway, good luck in your jungle!
> 
> ur and idiot too! how about BMW the only one on the market who has a ass kickin car and don't have to use a TURBO TO PUT OUT 500+ HP, put a non TURBO supra next to a M5 and watch it goes backwards, and do they have anything like an M5. NO CREDIT, NO RESPECT, LEXUS I MEAN TOYOTA :bawling:


Buddy you are comparing the NEW M5 2006 which is 10 years newer to a toyota supra....mind you the Supras ceased production in 97...compare a stock supra (the twinturbo model w/ no mods) from the mid 90's with the M5 from the mid 90's and you will find out that no matter how much you tweak up that gen's M5 engine....the supra will still smoke it....buddy 1200bhp is no match for a FREAKing BMW!

Even by today's standards for that matter....if they are modded to the MAX.....so you should think about what you said!...

As far as it goes for Landcruisers what year of it did you own? pre 98 models or post 98 models -current? I dont believe an X5 can even come close to what the Landcruiser offers....in terms of off-roading capabilities.......I mean after all thats what a Landcruiser and LX470 offer luxury with flawless off-roading capabilites...and practicality coupled with quiet comfortable rides!


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

3soon2B5 said:


> Simply put, the Lexus LS is for a different audience. I have a 330i and my dad has an LS430. Neither of us ever desire to borrow the other's car, but we appreciate the virtues of each.
> 
> I don't know about the new model, but the LS has never had any pretense of being a "driver's car". They are not aimed at BMW, they are aimed at Mercedes.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you are saying...and it makes sense lexus does come close to what mercs offer....and the apples to oranges analogy I agree with... I am not concluding that Lexus is better then BMW's overall...NO but in some aspects BMW should gather some of the good points from a company like Lexus/Toyota and improve....to dominate the market in the future and retain CONSUMER LOYALTY!!

However,
oholness..is jus being too unreasonable and snobby with his strong opinons about Toyota and Lexus.... which is the point I am tryin to get across him that Lexus/Toyota have indeed come a long way and will give more and more competition to BMW as they have done to Mercedes....so thas all BMW should watch out for that...by making their cars a bit more reliable and user-friendly!


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## LA X3 (Jul 5, 2005)

I have a friend who is a Lexus fanatic, and I have driven several of his cars and loaners. I have to say, while I absolutely prefer BMW driving dynamics, the Lexuses are fantastic cars. They are, IMHO, probably the most ergonomically well thought-out cars. The interiors in the new models (since the LS 430) are fantastic, better in my view than MBZ's and Audi's higher end (all of which I prefer to BMW). For a buyer looking for the best no-hassle value in a luxury cruiser, who is not a driving enthusiast, I don't think there is a better car.


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

oholness said:


> The GX470 is the 4Runner, my mistake


 :tsk:

My dad has an LX470 with over 100K miles. The thing is bulletproof.


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## apar330i (Aug 19, 2002)

bmwxdrive said:


> I dont like Lexus because they copy. They never have any original idea and also the RX330 drives like the freaking Toyota Camry except you just sit higher....lol :thumbdwn: Lexus


My wife used to own a Solara (two door Camry) and now owns an RX330. The RX does not drive like a Camry. By the way - how should an RX drive?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

LA X3 said:


> I have a friend who is a Lexus fanatic, and I have driven several of his cars and loaners. I have to say, while I absolutely prefer BMW driving dynamics, the Lexuses are fantastic cars. They are, IMHO, probably the most ergonomically well thought-out cars. The interiors in the new models (since the LS 430) are fantastic, better in my view than MBZ's and Audi's higher end (all of which I prefer to BMW). For a buyer looking for the best no-hassle value in a luxury cruiser, who is not a driving enthusiast, I don't think there is a better car.


try an is350...horrible ergonimics in that car. just a horrible car all around, imho.


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## oholness (Nov 29, 2005)

bimmer7 said:


> Buddy you are comparing the NEW M5 2006 which is 10 years newer to a toyota supra....mind you the Supras ceased production in 97...compare a stock supra (the twinturbo model w/ no mods) from the mid 90's with the M5 from the mid 90's and you will find out that no matter how much you tweak up that gen's M5 engine....the supra will still smoke it....buddy 1200bhp is no match for a FREAKing BMW!
> 
> Even by today's standards for that matter....if they are modded to the MAX.....so you should think about what you said!...
> 
> As far as it goes for Landcruisers what year of it did you own? pre 98 models or post 98 models -current? I dont believe an X5 can even come close to what the Landcruiser offers....in terms of off-roading capabilities.......I mean after all thats what a Landcruiser and LX470 offer luxury with flawless off-roading capabilites...and practicality coupled with quiet comfortable rides!


You know what, we all have different opinions on all these cars and comparing an X5 to a landcruser (which i didn't) is comparing two different suv's (one made for the road and the other for mainly offroading) realy don't make sense. My Landcruser was pre 98 (man I loved that truck). I lived in New York City and still do, that thing was great for the snow. and the X5 gets around pretty will in the snow too, but overall I don't like the idea of paying more for what i know is a toyota or a honda (acura) for that matter.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

AJAX said:


> :tsk:
> 
> My dad has an LX470 with over 100K miles. The thing is bulletproof.


  Thats lexus for you oholeness!!!!!!

I have a GS300 with over 200K....bullet proof too :thumbup:

wat year is it ajax?


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

oholness said:


> You know what, we all have different opinions on all these cars and comparing an X5 to a landcruser (which i didn't) is comparing two different suv's (one made for the road and the other for mainly offroading) realy don't make sense. My Landcruser was pre 98 (man I loved that truck). I lived in New York City and still do, that thing was great for the snow. and the X5 gets around pretty will in the snow too, but overall I don't like the idea of paying more for what i know is a toyota or a honda (acura) for that matter.


I was comparing what YOU were discussing the M5 vs Supra! in the beginning and then went on about the X5 jus as somethin to prove my point!


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

bimmer7 said:


> Thats lexus for you oholeness!!!!!!
> 
> I have a GS300 with over 200K....bullet proof too :thumbup:
> 
> wat year is it ajax?


It's like a 97 or something. It's incredible. Not a single squeak or rattle, but they did just get the front end redone (CV's.) HORRIBLE gas mileage. They used to buy new, but now they just buy them a couple of years old.

SC300
SC400
IS300
GS400
LX470

Not great drivers cars per se, but good gawd it's quality.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

AJAX said:


> It's like a 97 or something. It's incredible. Not a single squeak or rattle, but they did just get the front end redone (CV's.) HORRIBLE gas mileage. They used to buy new, but now they just buy them a couple of years old.
> 
> SC300
> SC400
> ...


So if its a 97 then it has to be a LX450?
Oh the front end thas fine....wear and tear happens on that kind of age....and mileage...

So that list of cars you have owned before?


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

bimmer7 said:


> So if its a 97 then it has to be a LX450?
> Oh the front end thas fine....wear and tear happens on that kind of age....and mileage...
> 
> So that list of cars you have owned before?


No, I'm pretty sure it's a 470, it's the year I'm not sure about. It's older though. And that's the list of Lexi that they have owned. My list isn't nearly as impressive.


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## oholness (Nov 29, 2005)

ok guy, I've been saying how much I dislike Lexus and then my parents went and bought a freakin LS, :violent: Know I guess I can't talk so bad bout them anymore! :jawdrop:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

oholness said:


> ok guy, I've been saying how much I dislike Lexus and then my parents went and bought a freakin LS, :violent: Know I guess I can't talk so bad bout them anymore! :jawdrop:


Why not? My parents own fords galore...55, 56 t-birds, grand marquis, excursion....I still mock and deride american cars. WTF do my parents' purchases have to do with me?


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

My parents are on their 4th LS, presently an LS430

the original LS was actually quite sporty, they softened it up in the later versions

but like them or not, nothing comes close to Lexus service, 1st class all the way :thumbup:


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

TeamM3 said:


> My parents are on their 4th LS, presently an LS430
> 
> the original LS was actually quite sporty, they softened it up in the later versions
> 
> but like them or not, nothing comes close to Lexus service, 1st class all the way :thumbup:


Totally agree with you buddy! :thumbup: 
Glad oholeness you came around and realized what my point was about Lexus....


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## DaveChapin (Dec 23, 2005)

2006_750Li_ED said:


> Nomatter what we think about Lexus, they have been able to make cars that rarely need service, and in the rare occasions that they do need it, you get a LExus loaner and a red carpet is rolled in front of you.


I remember the first time I looked at a Lexus SC; pretty amazing fit and finish. The closer you look, the nicer it is. Only problem is... at some point you are going to be more than 10 feet from one and then you have to see the whole car in one shot. And it just is not inspiring. And that's basically it. The only knock I've every had on Lexus is the bland styling. Once they get that figured out, they will be a world beater. And that new LS is starting to look pretty nice.


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## suntan (Aug 13, 2005)

Ok, so this is where you got the picture from right?:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_Lexus_LS_460_LS_460h.S178.A9342.html

Well, the article also says: "The computer rendering above shows what the production model might look like."

So, it seems that the picture you have above is simply a computer-rendering? (The second photograph in the article would be the test-mule, I think.) If this is true (I'm not sure it is - please tell me if I'm misled), then we do NOT know at present what the LS460 will actually look like when produced, so that any judgements on its appearance at this point is premature.

IMHO, I think this whole equating Lexus with simply a "pedestrian" Toyota and therefore denegrading the former for solely that is just....silly. It's like saying that we purchase our BMW's for no other reason than because they are called BMW's and not Toyota or VW or Opel or Cadillac or whatever. I would hope that we are better than that. Admittedly, there certainly are intangibles that come with brand names that have been around for a long time although look how quickly that can go down the tubes if the product isn't any good or fails to keep up. As just the most recent example (let's not even talk about Detroit which is just depressing), Mercedes Benz used to be synonymous with ironclad reliability (my father-in-law still drives his 21 year old, >150k miles Benz), now it is associated with the lowest JD Powers quality rankings amongst competitors and, worse still, of images of crashes because of drive-by-wire brake failures! At the end of the day, it is the actual sequence of cars that are produced over generations that count, no? And we should put more weight on more recent generations than those from long ago?

Lexus builds good cars. And their products are getting better. No one who has test-driven the IS would call it a lightweight in terms of a competitor to the E90 - not even in terms of driving dynamics; certainly not in terms of technology or power. It seems to me that in terms of overall mechanics, technology, and styling, it is only a matter of time before the leading Japanese manufacturers catch up with the German marques. AND, companies like Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti *are* building intangibles for their brands as well. Very soon (if not already) they are going to be known as the thinking-man's choice where a thinking man is defined as someone who is shrewd enough to recognize unchallenged value when he sees it. We should take Lexus seriously as consumers who work hard for our money. BMW should take them doubly so.

cheers,
suntan


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

suntan said:


> No one who has test-driven the IS would call it a lightweight in terms of a competitor to the E90 - not even in terms of driving dynamics; certainly not in terms of technology.


I would. The IS350 is a flaccid car with understeer, no roadfeel and it's retarded by a slow-to-respond automatic transmission. Furthermore, its seats are wide, flat and soft, offering zero support.



> It seems to me that in terms of overall mechanics, technology, and styling, it is only a matter of time before the leading Japanese manufacturers catch up with the German marques. AND, companies like Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti *are* building intangibles for their brands as well.


I don't believe Lexus has any intention of really building a BMW-type of car. That's not Lexus' target market. They want people who are after Japanese Buicks, not german sport sedans.


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## bimmer7 (Jun 14, 2005)

suntan said:


> Ok, so this is where you got the picture from right?:
> 
> http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_Lexus_LS_460_LS_460h.S178.A9342.html
> 
> ...


Thats a very good point. . .I agree with what you are saying.... I think DaimlerChrysler since 1998 is the reason for the downfall in Merc's reliability and quality.... whereas BMW are still sort of consistent with there cars.. but still have some room for improvements.. in there market.... in the meanwhile the Japanese are catching up fast.....


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## suntan (Aug 13, 2005)

blueguydotcom said:


> I would. The IS350 is a flaccid car with understeer, no roadfeel and it's retarded by a slow-to-respond automatic transmission. Furthermore, its seats are wide, flat and soft, offering zero support.
> 
> I don't believe Lexus has any intention of really building a BMW-type of car. That's not Lexus' target market. They want people who are after Japanese Buicks, not german sport sedans.


"Flaccid" relative to the 3-series' competition (A4, C-class, M35) or just the 330i? I'd personally rank the IS350 just behind the 330i (which I purchased  hence revealing my preference) but not that far off. I didn't notice the understeer on the IS. It does have roadfeel just not as much as the 330i. I agree with your comment on the auto transmission. But the 330i's auto isn't all that ideal either (at least the one on mine isn't) unless you put it into D/S mode. I'd also disagree with your comment on Lexus' intention. I think the IS, for instance, was aimed squarely at the 3-series and not any MB or Detroit offerings. In fact, I think Lexus' corporate aim is pragmatic and straightforward - it is simply to beat the individual leaders of each market segment, whatever the car and whomever the particular manufacturer in that segment may be. My guess: the IS targets the 3 series, the GS targets the 5 series, the ES targets the E-class, the LS targets the S-class, etc. So, I do agree with the poster earlier, the new LS will be targeted at the S class and not the 7 series, but that's because that's what Lexus perceives to be the leader of that particular segment. Incidentally, you have to give Lexus/Toyota credit - this is exactly how a gutsy, self-confident competitor; a true winner, approaches the act of competing - you only bother with the best.

cheers,
suntan


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