# Test drove an Audi A4 3.0 6-spd SP yesterday



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

JST said:


> *I agree with you; this kind of pressure is pervasive. I think we've discussed before that it is even more evident in DC (as opposed to Detroit or CA), because people here generally don't spend as much on their cars.
> 
> At the same time, I've decided that this is one battle that I will fight. I want to spend an absurd (for DC) percentage of my income on my car. If others don't, fine. Screw them. Let them drive around in their 15 year old beaters. But I will no more bend my automotive preferences based on the preferences of others than I would decide to go to church just because my boss did. *


i'm just a regular engineer (not sr not jr) at my place but i also drive one of the more expensive cars around. when others ask or hint at the above, i usually add that i'm a car enthusiast. i combine my hobby budget into my transportation whereas others would diversify into expensive home audio systems or large salt water reef tanks etc.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

I think DC just has a really weird/heightened "power play" deal going on. I have a good friend that works there and he constantly laments about how everyone is out to better position themselves. This means not stepping on anyone's toes and always trying to toe the company line, even if it means compromising some of your own principles.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

HW said:


> *i'm just a regular engineer (not sr not jr) at my place but i also drive one of the more expensive cars around. when others ask or hint at the above, i usually add that i'm a car enthusiast. i combine my hobby budget into my transportation whereas others would diversify into expensive home audio systems or large salt water reef tanks etc. *


Yes, becoming known as the crazy car enthusiast who races on the weekends and knows everything about cars has helped.


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## dlloyd1975 (Sep 8, 2002)

TD said:


> *Continuing on the wagon theme, I went out yesterday afternoon to gather some information...
> 
> First, I stopped by the local Volvo dealer to ask what they knew about the V70R. What an awful dealership. Needless to say, I knew more from reading the Volvo press release online that the salesman knew (the salesman I had to accost as I had been in the showroom, bored, for 10 minutes with 6 salesmen talking to each other, none of them acknowledging me). But I said that I'd like a call when they came in so I could drive one as I would never drop 40 large blind. "We won't be able to do that." (That one, while a definite problem, did not surprise me. But the next one did.) I asked if, since I was unfamiliar with Volvo driving dynamics and that since driving dynamics are important to me (I showed up there in my M3 to make the point), could I at least take a T5 for a test drive? "No, we don't allow T5s out on test drives either." Can I have a brochure? "We don't have one for the V70R." How about for a regular V70? "Actually, we're out of those." I then see a brochure on a table on my way out the door. I grab it. A different salesperson chases me down to tell me I cannot have the brochure. WTF?!
> 
> ...


*

My wife and I had a similar experience at *both* Volvo dealers in St. Louis. One wouldn't even give us the time of day in the new car department (he openly scoffed when I asked about their ED program), however the used department did let us drive a used T5.

The other dealership was OK, but man, I felt like I needed a shower when I got out of there. They did try to play the "what would it take to get you in this car today" game. I even openly told them that we weren't considering buying quite yet. Then, for months afterwards, they kept calling us. Man, desperation is not appealing.

I can tell you that the T5 drives like *crap* compared to any of the 3ers I've taken for a test drive, even the 325 touring with premium and step. It's pretty fast, but in that straight line sort of way. It reminds me a bit of my grandma's 71 Ford Galaxie 500, or maybe my brother's 73 El Camino SS (though that LS6 454 could generate enough torgue to denotate transmissions). In short, it's wicked fast, but feels much larger and slower than it actually is. After driving a 325 step/sport (the dealership that I've been going to around here has a dearth of manuals), I can say that the Volvo doesn't feel any faster than a low end BMW. You made the right choice by ignoring it.

On the other hand, if I could live with driving with two condoms and had two kids over the age of 12 (scads of back seat room in the V70), then maybe I could justify the Volvo, but I'd still look at a Passat wagon first just based on how I was treated at the Volvo dealership.

I'd look at the A4 3.0, but my wife and I are really keen on doing the whole ED thing, espically since we've been plannng on doing our three or four week vacation to Europe for quite some time (SGI gives its employees six week sabbaticals every four years, and I'm elligible now).*


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Re: Test drove an Audi A4 3.0 6-spd SP yesterday*



dlloyd1975 said:


> *
> 
> I can tell you that the T5 drives like *crap* compared to any of the 3ers I've taken for a test drive, even the 325 touring with premium and step. It's pretty fast, but in that straight line sort of way. It reminds me a bit of my grandma's 71 Ford Galaxie 500, or maybe my brother's 73 El Camino SS (though that LS6 454 could generate enough torgue to denotate transmissions). *


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: Re: Test drove an Audi A4 3.0 6-spd SP yesterday*



dlloyd1975 said:


> *
> 
> On the other hand, if I could live with driving with two condoms and had two kids over the age of 12 (scads of back seat room in the V70), then maybe I could justify the Volvo*


 

:dunno:


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

TD said:


> *I was genuinely impressed. *


Maybe because your expectatoins were so low?


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *I think DC just has a really weird/heightened "power play" deal going on. I have a good friend that works there and he constantly laments about how everyone is out to better position themselves. This means not stepping on anyone's toes and always trying to toe the company line, even if it means compromising some of your own principles. *


Political Correctness. After 9/11 you'd think people would focus on more important things but old Stalinists are a fickle lot.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

TD:

told ya, did i not? the 6speed 3.0 a4 avant is a nice automobile.

pretty smooth engine, still lacking in some low down grunt, but like the 2.5 or 3.0 inline sixes don't? has quattro.

just heavy. that is an excellent price if you could swing 34k since that is about what a 325xiT new is lightly optioned.


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## dlloyd1975 (Sep 8, 2002)

atyclb said:


> *
> 
> :dunno: *


What I ment by that was if it came down to we needed something with SUV sized space or the Volvo V70 (which are about the same in usable interior room), I'd take the V70.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *I think DC just has a really weird/heightened "power play" deal going on. I have a good friend that works there and he constantly laments about how everyone is out to better position themselves. This means not stepping on anyone's toes and always trying to toe the company line, even if it means compromising some of your own principles. *


I don't think that this is true (generally) here any more than it is anywhere else. Your friend's company/work environment may be an exceptional case.

What is true here is that power/influence is measured differently than in, say, NY. Whereas in NY what matters is how much you make, here it is who you know, and who will return your phone calls. That's the currency of power.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

TD said:


> * When egos come into play, you don't want to go around upstaging those up the org chart from you. It CAN adversely impact your career. *


I'm content with letting the bosses have more expensive cars as long as mine is the fastest one in the lot.

And, more on original topic it's interesting to hear an enlightened an unbiased opinion on an Audi. That new 3.2 TT might have to go for a test drive when the current lease is up.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

*ah, appearances, bmw's, and audi's.*

TD:

am glad you got an overall positive impression from your test drive of the new a4 3.0. i, too, like that car a lot and the interiors are wonderful. they had better be, given the strange quirks of the VAG group cars. miscellaneous little electrical glitches...good grief.

as for appearances? once "we" step up into that certain echelon of people who choose to drive cars with more negative than positive stereotypes, "we" can either (a) not care, (b) care, but eat it up, or (c) care and have decoy cars.

:angel:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

I suggested the A4 to Tom as well in the other thread because I know he enjoyed his 97 (or was it 98) A4 and this newer generation has definitely come up a level and now can easily play with the E46.

I came extremely close to getting the New A4 and the only negative I saw with the car was that the center console made leg room a little narrow. Perhaps if I owned it, I would have gotten used to it 

*** One interesting note . . . for 2003 they now have the 17" wheels with all season tires as a stand alone option with the regular suspension or you could opt for the sport suspension which come with the same wheels with summer rubber.

When I test drove the A4's, I had driven a model with the all-season option and was shocked at how incredible the handling was and beleive me, the local dealer here has the perfect test drive route to find out just how good the car can be :thumbup:

FYI The regular suspension is just as tight as the previous genreation sport suspension.

Since your getting the car for your wife and you want the added benefit of all weather capability, I would seriously consider going with the 17" all seasons. I don't think you will feel like your giving up anything (at least test drive it). . . 

Meanwhile my brother traded in his 98 A4 2.8Q with sport for a 03 3.0Q with the all-seasons 17" and he says it not only outhandles his old car by a far margin but in the snow it is considerably better as well.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

*same old same old, TD.*

i know i catch a lot of flak for this and the closet-elitist in me raises its ugly head......

....however, i do not appreciate the kind of treatment that you got at the dealership because i know the anecdote well and personally.

the issue is: we here are all enthusiasts, and you can damn well bet we would all be great at selling cars if that is what we chose to do; but it is not for one reason or another. an underlying part of this is: how many would agree that there is a completely odious stigma to the profession?

and on the few times when i have been blatantly blown off or treated rudely, when i am mature, i leave knowing that i actually own the car i drive home as opposed to getting one comp'd.....but when i'm immature, i usually ask the guilty party, "you know, it took kinda a long time to get some help today and i could not, for the life of me understand why since no other customers are in here......selling cars is fun, huh? probably what you dreamt of doing when you were little for a living?"

i promise, this has never been mentioned to someone who treats me with respect, but fair game is fair game. when "we" are trying honestly to buy something.......


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

The poor sales treatment is not brand specific. I get the exact same treatment at all local Toronto BMW dealerships... regardless of what I drive up in.

A few weeks ago, my parents were set to buy a Ford F150 supercab a few months ago and got so sick of dealing with the crap at the Ford dealer (bait& switch nonsense) they said "screw it" and drove to the MB dealer and are now in a ML350 instead.  


Anyway, the black A4 wagons are gorgeous. It's the only car that actually tempts me other than a E46M3. An S4 wagon would be irresistable.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

So, TD, I was thinking about your dilemma this morning. You want a fast 5 series wagon. You have an E36 M3 that could also use some more poke.

Hm. As the light beer guys say, "Let's watch both!"

1. Buy 528iT. Remove engine. Sell.

2. Buy S50 B 32 crate motor. Install in M3.

3. Take S52 B 32 engine from M3. Install in 528iT.

4. Problem(s) solved.

Here is a review of a TC Kline constructed 532i; sounds very appealing.

http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/1999/February/199902_roadtest_bmw_528i32.xml?keywords=528


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: same old same old, TD.*



pdz said:


> *i know i catch a lot of flak for this and the closet-elitist in me raises its ugly head......
> 
> ....however, i do not appreciate the kind of treatment that you got at the dealership because i know the anecdote well and personally.
> 
> the issue is: we here are all enthusiasts, and you can damn well bet we would all be great at selling cars if that is what we chose to do; but it is not for one reason or another. an underlying part of this is: how many would agree that there is a completely odious stigma to the profession?*


I suspect that many on the board, if they were car salesman, would be like Jack Black's character selling records in _High Fidelity_. Same snobbiness, different criteria.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: same old same old, TD.*



[email protected] said:


> *I suspect that many on the board, if they were car salesman, would be like Jack Black's character selling records in High Fidelity. Same snobbiness, different criteria. *


that is so funny i am laughing out loud at work. how true.

"WHAT?!?!?!??!?! do you even know your wife!?!?!? no, no, no, no. f*ck off you nouveau riche suburbanite jackoff! go find some lexus dealership and die happy........"


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## Zaphod (May 23, 2002)

I drove the 1.8T variant when I was shopping for a car and found that the interior space was cramped. 

TD - IIRC from the picture thread that you a not a small person. How did you find the driver's spot, the transmission tunnel specifically? I'm 6'4" and thought it was quite intrusive.


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## Guest (Jan 13, 2003)

Zaphod said:


> *I drove the 1.8T variant when I was shopping for a car and found that the interior space was cramped.
> 
> TD - IIRC from the picture thread that you a not a small person. How did you find the driver's spot, the transmission tunnel specifically? I'm 6'4" and thought it was quite intrusive. *


Funny you mention this.

I DID notice the tranny tunnel but chalked it up to not taking the time to properly adjust my seat. Then I went to Audiworld.com's forums last night and saw a post from someone who ditched their new A4 for a prior generation one BECAUSE of the tranny tunnel. Now I'm concerned and will have to go back and sit in one for a while and see if I can find a comfortable position. It would be a real shame if Audi f*cked up and otherwise great vehicle with this type of stupid design error.

BTW, I'm only 6'1", ~ 195 lbs (not that that's small).


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

*Re: Re: Re: same old same old, TD.*



pdz said:


> *that is so funny i am laughing out loud at work. how true.
> 
> "WHAT?!?!?!??!?! do you even know your wife!?!?!? no, no, no, no. f*ck off you nouveau riche suburbanite jackoff! go find some lexus dealership and die happy........" *


 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

TD said:


> *Funny you mention this.
> 
> I DID notice the tranny tunnel but chalked it up to not taking the time to properly adjust my seat. Then I went to Audiworld.com's forums last night and saw a post from someone who ditched their new A4 for a prior generation one BECAUSE of the tranny tunnel. Now I'm concerned and will have to go back and sit in one for a while and see if I can find a comfortable position. It would be a real shame if Audi f*cked up and otherwise great vehicle with this type of stupid design error.
> 
> BTW, I'm only 6'1", ~ 195 lbs (not that that's small). *


Well unfortunately (see my post above) this was the main reason I didn't get that car . . . my brother is only 5'6" so this didn't affect him, I'm 5'10" so it bothered me and I noticed the more test drives I took, the more I noticed it especially with shorts on . . .

Also quite a few auto mags picked up on this as well and I have a funny feeling Audi is going to change the design of it in the future . . .

There's a chance that over time you might get used to it, people on Audiworld have said that they re-adjusted the way they sit and it didn't bother them . . . others have said that after a couple of weeks, they were used to it and VERY few have said it was terrible and they can't stand it.

Also, there is a small solution, there is a guy selling a knee pad to match the interior that I have read really helps and the knee pad is very cheap !!!
Do a search under 'kneepad' on Audiworld (new A4 forum) and you'll see pictures of it.


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

Matthew330CiM said:


> *i have similar thoughts,
> i'm a very young engineer, graduated about a year ago, and my boss drives an old ford escort wagon and his boss (director of mfg) drives an old 89ish mazda mpv minivan... so far i've been driving a 2000 civic si which is already more expensive than both their cars but when my 330ci comes in, i figure if they ever find out my boss will tease me that they're paying me too much... and i figure it can't possibly be positive for all my coworkers when this new kid fresh out of college drives a new bmw..
> 
> i know i shouldn't really care about what other people think but when it's your bosses involved i'd prefer they don't find out that i drive a brand new bimmer... *


I feel exactly the same way. I am a class of '01 mechanical design engineer, and sometimes people make comments about my CURRENT car. I have to tell them that it is 13 years old and with 160K miles for them to shut up. Just because it looks new doesn't mean it is. Once I get my 330 later this year I am DEFINITELY gonna hear it. :tsk:

Although I am paying for it, and I can afford it, I have to keep saying that it is because of my fiancee that I can buy the car (she DID land a job with the top law firm in Boston, and they know this). Some guys in my group are worth too much money to give a damn (stock money), so they cheer for me to get it. But other newer guys recently hired will definitelly think otherwise considering one drives a POS '91 Integra, and another a '95 Civic.


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

Sorry, way late on the subject :dunno: 

Anyway, I do like the A4 Avant 3.0. I will likely get that for my wife when my 190E 2.6 dies, or we have kids, whichever happens first.


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## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

*Volvo Management, you need to be reading these posts!*

Wow!

I thought my experience with Volvo dealers was unusual; the first dealer I visited in Ontario, California, couldn't be bothered to give me the time of day when I had the effrontery to ask about a *manual* S60 T5. I was very, very turned off.

But, I wanted to be fair; I figured it was maybe that particular dealership, so I went to one in Orange County. It's been my experience (I live in the Inland Empire, which is San Bernardino and Riverside Counties) that the dealers in Orange County tend to treat customers very well (rich people don't take well to poor service!). I had a better experience; they had to search to find a manual, but they did, and I appreciated the effort. I ended up buying my Bimmer from an Orange County dealer.

My experience at two Audi dealers was okay; the one in Pasadena was kind of amusing; because I wanted a manual (oh, I am such a pain in the gluetus maximus! :lmao: ), they had to search for a long time; they located one in a distant lot. 
We drove over in one car to find the one with the 5-speed; it was covered in dust, dirt and leaves, but I felt it would be gauche to complain. So I took it on a test drive around the Rose Bowl. The other Orange County dealer had a manual readily available.


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## joema (Aug 28, 2002)

TD said:


> *My immediate boss (who is the CFO - and drives an Acura RL) gives me shit constantly for my two BMWs*


The Acura RL base MSRP is way more than a 330i. The funny thing is an E46 isn't that expensive relative to other cars people often drive.

The edmunds.com Total Cost of Ownership tool shows a Lincoln Navigator 4WD costs $0.79 per mile, which is more expensive than an M3, a 540iA, Porsche Boxter S, or a Mercedes E320.

A Ford F-150 Supercrew HD pickup truck costs $0.64 per mile, which is more than a 330i or Mercedes C240.

-- Joe


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Maybe Volvo dealers are like this because they know that their manual transmissions suck, or that their cars don't really appeal to enthusiasts? :dunno: :eeps:


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## brave1heart (Jan 7, 2002)

TD said:


> *Continuing on the wagon theme, I went out yesterday afternoon to gather some information...
> 
> First, I stopped by the local Volvo dealer to ask what they knew about the V70R. What an awful dealership. Needless to say, I knew more from reading the Volvo press release online that the salesman knew (the salesman I had to accost as I had been in the showroom, bored, for 10 minutes with 6 salesmen talking to each other, none of them acknowledging me). But I said that I'd like a call when they came in so I could drive one as I would never drop 40 large blind. "We won't be able to do that." (That one, while a definite problem, did not surprise me. But the next one did.) I asked if, since I was unfamiliar with Volvo driving dynamics and that since driving dynamics are important to me (I showed up there in my M3 to make the point), could I at least take a T5 for a test drive? "No, we don't allow T5s out on test drives either." Can I have a brochure? "We don't have one for the V70R." How about for a regular V70? "Actually, we're out of those." I then see a brochure on a table on my way out the door. I grab it. A different salesperson chases me down to tell me I cannot have the brochure. WTF?!
> 
> ...


The A4 3.0 Avant would be on top of my list too. I think it's very likely we'll end up looking at it more seriously in a couple of years when our son is older and our family has hopefully expanded. I am surprised to hear this story about the Volvo dealership. I've only been in a Volvo dealership once when I was trying to help a friend with buying a car and we had no problem at all taking a T5 out for a spin. We also drove two other Volvos (forgot which ones - they were too unimpressive). I can virtually guarantee you that you will hate the T5. It is quick in a straight line but the driving dynamics are probably no better than a Camry's. Oh, and I totally understand your thoughts on career/car/house/standing etc... esp. in finance/accounting, which tends to be a lot more conservative than other departments. Driving a car and living in a house above your means will not be a big help in your career. It only helps if you are in sales.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

Ditto that: Volvo's suck to drive.


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## Zaphod (May 23, 2002)

TD said:


> *Funny you mention this.
> 
> I DID notice the tranny tunnel but chalked it up to not taking the time to properly adjust my seat. Then I went to Audiworld.com's forums last night and saw a post from someone who ditched their new A4 for a prior generation one BECAUSE of the tranny tunnel. Now I'm concerned and will have to go back and sit in one for a while and see if I can find a comfortable position. It would be a real shame if Audi f*cked up and otherwise great vehicle with this type of stupid design error.
> 
> BTW, I'm only 6'1", ~ 195 lbs (not that that's small). *


The only semi comfortable position I found was with the seat pushed all the way back. That's just an awful driving position (arms and legs straight out) and it eliminates what little back seat room there was behind me. I also did the Audiworld search. I chose to search on the word 'problem' then did the same thing on this board. Both came back with problems but Audi had more as well as a more severe problem. Also I found that problem resolution was reported in a more favorable light here.

If it were me, I'd be doing the hunt for an E39 Touring. They can be found with the sport package and sport seats for 30-35k. My sister recently found a '99 528 with 17k miles on it with sport and premium packages and even xenons for ~32,000 up here in CT.

Just my $.02, good luck.


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