# Is this considered a Scratch or a Swirl... and how do I make it go away?



## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

I didn't notice this blemish initially, but about 3-4 week ago noticed this mar on the right front hood area of my 328i . It seems to be under the Paint Sealant layer I applied last weekend of August as it is smooth to the touch after washing the car.

I purchased some Meguiar's Scratch-X 2.0 in hopes of removing it. Is this the right product to eradicate this ugliness?

Car is Space Gray Metallic.... if that helps in diagnosis and treatment.
BTW: Photos are taken with slightly different light exposures trying to maximize visibility... Have not retouched at all.


Please give me your $.02
Thanks


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## BMW-Esq. (Jun 5, 2009)

looks like a very light scratch, but i'm no expert.

I had used McG. Scratch-X on my previous car and it didn't really help at all. I dunno if that was b/c the scratch was too deep or b/c all i had was elbow grease and that wasn't enough. I would try the Scratch-X if you have a buffer, otherwise you might want to look at the "detail" section of the forum for another product.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

335i-Esq said:


> looks like a very light scratch, but i'm no expert.
> 
> I had used McG. Scratch-X on my previous car and it didn't really help at all. I dunno if that was b/c the scratch was too deep or b/c all i had was elbow grease and that wasn't enough. I would try the Scratch-X if you have a buffer, otherwise you might want to look at the "detail" section of the forum for another product.


Have already "scoured" the detail forum... Scratch-X was the best I could come up with for a hand application... was just wondering about real life hands on usage before I delved in.


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## anE934fun (May 10, 2008)

It is a Scwirl. Someone with a mild abrasive rubbed against your car. Likely in a parking lot getting out of their car/truck in a tight confine. The perp was probably wearing a pair of jeans with the rear pockets embroidered with the rhinestones or whatever sparkly stuff they sew onto the rear pockets. Another possibility is that a purse/pocketbook was placed on your cars hood and the pocketbook has little studs on the bottom.

As far as repairing the damage, a permanent repair involves sanding out the scratched area and spraying new clearcoat. If you can live with the knowledge of the scratches, you can apply a paste wax (Scratch-X might work also) to the area and if the scratch(es) are not too deep, the wax will fill them until the wax wears off/out. If waxing doesn't fill the scratch(es), then you are looking at the permanent repair.

It sucks when your not less than 1 year old car gets the paint job scratched, but that is life in the city.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

anE934fun said:


> It is a Scwirl. Someone with a mild abrasive rubbed against your car. Likely in a parking lot getting out of their car/truck in a tight confine. The perp was probably wearing a pair of jeans with the rear pockets embroidered with the rhinestones or whatever sparkly stuff they sew onto the rear pockets. Another possibility is that a purse/pocketbook was placed on your cars hood and the pocketbook has little studs on the bottom.
> 
> As far as repairing the damage, a permanent repair involves sanding out the scratched area and spraying new clearcoat. If you can live with the knowledge of the scratches, you can apply a paste wax (Scratch-X might work also) to the area and if the scratch(es) are not too deep, the wax will fill them until the wax wears off/out. If waxing doesn't fill the scratch(es), then you are looking at the permanent repair.
> 
> It sucks when your not less than 1 year old car gets the paint job scratched, but that is life in the city.


This blemish is just to the right of the roundel (viewed from driver seat). Hardly seems likely that is a parking lot purse/jeans scratch. I might believe the Thursday Mow-Blow and Go crew was meaning well and tried to "clean it off" and I didn't notice and sealed over it. So far no negatives for the Meguiars treatment...If I get no bad reviews for the product, I'll give it a whirl....I guess worst case scenario is a $100 trip to a local reputable detailer.....


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## kelvin12345 (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh, although it seems not serious, it is so painful as well. I just found some scratch on my left front door yesterday, but I dunno how this scratches come....
Sometimes waxing can help to remove some light scratch. Hope it helps.


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## yakitori832 (Sep 21, 2009)

You need this buddy.

Fixit Scratch Remover


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## roadkillrob (Aug 11, 2006)

Just a mild scratch, something was rubbed across your hood, but looks very light and scratch X should take it out by hand. Swirls are lighter micros scratches taht build up over time, especially if you use an automatic car wash, but will happen even with handwashing over time as you move minor abrasive particles around on your paint.


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## BMW-Esq. (Jun 5, 2009)

Give Scratch-X a try. 

Worst case scenario it does nothing.

Before you take it to a body shop i would maybe take it to a good detailer and let him has a try at it.


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## matts335 (Feb 13, 2009)

I recently read in consumer reports that the scratch remover made by Nufinish (scratch doctor i think?) scored better than scratch-x (if you believe in consumer reports). There was another brand that did better than both. Can't remember the name, but i know i've seen it in auto-zone. Either way, be prepared to use a LOT of elbow grease, and do it over and over and over again. If that doesn't work, you will need something a little more powerful than elbow grease. Most likely you'll be able to make it a little less noticeable, but still visible in certain light. Of course, that's pure speculation since I have no idea how deep the scratch is. Looks pretty light based on the pictures.


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

Kat, I'm sending you a PM.


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## Kilgore Trout (Dec 25, 2008)

I wouldn't go near the car with Scratch-X. This is a product with tiny abrasive particles. It could actually cause hazing and other problems with your finish.

IMO, either take out the swirl properly (a mild polish applied via PC) or take it to a detailer.


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## surf330 (Sep 20, 2008)

I'd try polishing compound that is clearcoat safe. It's mild enough not to mar the finish but will gently take out the swirl. You can do it by hand.


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

Kilgore Trout said:


> I wouldn't go near the car with Scratch-X. This is a product with tiny abrasive particles. It could actually cause hazing and other problems with your finish.
> 
> IMO, either take out the swirl properly (a mild polish applied via PC) or take it to a detailer.


!
Ditto


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## BMW4Lee (Aug 17, 2007)

About a month ago, I had some really deep water spots on my car. I happened to be near the dealer that day, so I asked their detail department what could be done. They tried a few things to no avail and then stated that the only thing that would work would be color sanding. I did not like the sound of that, so I sought advice from the "detail" board. Someone recommended a cleaner wax. I purchased Meguiar's Cleaner Wax and it took the spots out.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

The dealer was nice enough to give me some scratches like that. I tried a couple of products like scratch x to no avail. Then I tried Quixx on a random orbital buffer and it worked fantastic.


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## ProReflection (Oct 7, 2009)

*'*

space gray ... has 2 on bumper, one deeper and one light , the one deeper is still there but very hard to see , the one lighter is gone. as u can see a tool was use for correction , can be done by hand too. when scratch removal are involved paint thickness should be taken before and during the removal process by using a digital ptg.
what u have in the pic is even a random scratch that u got in some parking lot or poor washing technique (u use 2 buckets with grittguard?) ..... on space gray is very hard to see imperfections it hide so good, take a good flashlight and by keeping parallel with the paint surface but in an 20` angle for light to hit the paint surface , stay on opposite side and u should be able to see if any swirlmarks or defects are present. do this test in poor lighting in the full sun u don`t see anything.

before : 









after:


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## buckybadger (Dec 21, 2008)

Looks like a scratch.. try the nufinish, I think it might be better than Scratch-X.. I tried nufinish long time back on my Acura and it was pretty decent..
http://www.nufinish.com/products_scratch.html

Best is to get rid of it when you get your car detailed... It doesn't look very deep from the pics.


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## the328 (Apr 2, 2009)

Hey Kat, is your boss petting your BMW again?


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

I think Kat's necklace scraped across it when she was giving it a "Good Morning!" kiss!


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

the328 said:


> Hey Kat, is your boss petting your BMW again?


I hope not!!!!

Actually I think this might have been caused by the Thursday morning (no intiendo Ingles) -- Mow-Blow-And-Go crew that invades the parking lot and associated grass strips at work. They stir up a whole bunch of dust and debris. They used to attempt to dust off my Honda after they made a mess of it with their leaf blowers. I'm sure in meaning well, one of the guys dragged a rag :yikes: over the hood in an attempt to clean the dust off.

I'm trying to not stress over how it was caused. I just want to fix it.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

DSXMachina said:


> I think Kat's necklace scraped across it when she was giving it a "Good Morning!" kiss!


Ouch! No.... I once accidentally grazed the fender of my dad's 1929 Packard with a necklace and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. No permanent harm done as the car later went on to win 2nd in its class at the 1996 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. I did learned at that point that the proper way to kiss a car 'good morning' is to stay below fender line!


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## anE934fun (May 10, 2008)

Nordic_Kat said:


> I hope not!!!!
> 
> Actually I think this might have been caused by the Thursday morning (no intiendo Ingles) -- Mow-Blow-And-Go crew that invades the parking lot and associated grass strips at work. They stir up a whole bunch of dust and debris. They used to attempt to dust off my Honda after they made a mess of it with their leaf blowers. I'm sure in meaning well, one of the guys dragged a rag :yikes: over the hood in an attempt to clean the dust off.
> 
> I'm trying to not stress over how it was caused. I just want to fix it.


I would be interested to learn what the resolution to the scratch/swirl is. Please post the outcome.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

anE934fun said:


> I would be interested to learn what the resolution to the scratch/swirl is. Please post the outcome.


Will do.


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## the328 (Apr 2, 2009)

Nordic_Kat said:


> I did learned at that point that the proper way to kiss a car 'good morning' is to stay below fender line!


:wow::wow::wow:


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

Nordic_Kat said:


> Ouch! No.... I once accidentally grazed the fender of my dad's 1929 Packard with a necklace and I thought he was going to have a heart attack. No permanent harm done as the car later went on to win 2nd in its class at the 1996 Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. I did learned at that point that the proper way to kiss a car 'good morning' is to stay below fender line!


Deleted.
Before I even posted it!


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

Guess that didn't translate visually quite the way it was supposed to!! 
(looks like I'm going to be in for a lot of teasing this morning)


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

*Update-- Sort of.....*

Spent a restless night last night tossing and turning fretting about what to do. Have had a couple of email discussions with professional detailers. As I was not sure if I was just seeing a mar in the sealant I applied, tonight I hit the spot with a little IPA to see if I could dissolve the WG Sealant and see how deep the scratch really is. It's definitely beneath the sealant layer. Looks like this weekend I'll be doing a few more "non-agressive" tests before I involve the big-boys and their power toys.

(Better living through chemistry, eh?):dunno:


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## Kilgore Trout (Dec 25, 2008)

Nordic_Kat said:


> Spent a restless night last night tossing and turning fretting about what to do. Have had a couple of email discussions with professional detailers. As I was not sure if I was just seeing a mar in the sealant I applied, tonight I hit the spot with a little IPA to see if I could dissolve the WG Sealant and see how deep the scratch really is. It's definitely beneath the sealant layer. Looks like this weekend I'll be doing a few more "non-agressive" tests before I involve the big-boys and their power toys.
> 
> (Better living through chemistry, eh?):dunno:


 To bad you don't like in LA. I could take a mild scratch like that out in about 10 minutes.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

Kilgore Trout said:


> To bad you don't like in LA. I could take a mild scratch like that out in about 10 minutes.


Yeah, too bad she's not in IL, I could get it out in about 10 min too and I would even do it for free since it's a BMW. It would be so simple if she would just do what I suggested.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

335i Driver said:


> Yeah, too bad she's not in IL, I could get it out in about 10 min too and I would even do it for free since it's a BMW. It would be so simple if she would just do what I suggested.


My inability to try your solution is I don't have a Random orbital buffer. 
I have spent so much time reading detail forums on this one and the answer it seems lies in access to power toys.

I know it should be a simple thing for the right person to do, but I've also read quite a few horror stories about how "detailers" have actually made a bigger mess of things than was there in the first place.

I appreciate you and Kilgore saying you guys could get the job done. Too bad I'm not in CA or IL --


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

You can get one at Lowes, Menards, etc for about 30 bucks. I think you can get an el cheepo one at Wal Mart for 20 bucks that will probably do the job. You don't need to go get a $200 portercable unless you intend to do some serious detailing.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm kind of amazed that some professional detailers don't want to have anything to do with it unless its a full detail. -- I guess some of them can afford to be choosy about the jobs they do.


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## Kilgore Trout (Dec 25, 2008)

NK, it is almost impossible to damage your paint with a random orbital polisher. The "random" is what prevents it from having any potential to do damage in any one spot. As long as you use a relatively mild polish, you shouldn't have any problem at all.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

Kilgore Trout said:


> I wouldn't go near the car with Scratch-X. This is a product with tiny abrasive particles. It could actually cause hazing and other problems with your finish.
> 
> IMO, either take out the swirl properly (a mild polish applied via PC) or take it to a detailer.


Define Mild Polish please. (by product name would be really helpful)


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

I use Menzerna Intensive Polish also and it works well. Despite the name it's about medium when it comes to cutting ability of polishes.

This one:
http://www.detailedimage.com/Menzerna-M10/Intensive-Polish-IP-P72/32-oz-S1/


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## tdekany (Feb 3, 2007)

Nordic_Kat said:


> I'm kind of amazed that some professional detailers don't want to have anything to do with it unless its a full detail. -- I guess some of them can afford to be choosy about the jobs they do.


Where is Texas are you? I will get you a detailer to fix the scratch.


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

Nordic_Kat said:


> Define Mild Polish please. (by product name would be really helpful)


ScratchX is very mild. Maybe even too mild. No way would it hurt your paint. I'd pick up a tube and give it a try. I'm guessing it would do the trick (with a little elbow grease).


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

*My "Official" Update*



Bill-SD said:


> ScratchX is very mild. Maybe even too mild. No way would it hurt your paint. I'd pick up a tube and give it a try. I'm guessing it would do the trick (with a little elbow grease).


First of all, thanks so much to all of those who "hand-held" me through this.

Thanks to a few sage words of advice which boosted my confidence in this, Friday, during my lunch-hour, I acquired a little orbital buffer. Friday evening, after an early supper, I ran outside and gave the car its weekly bath, leaving the tires, interior vac, windows and top-seal work till this morning. (Yes -- I really do all this stuff every week and oh yeah, I had to add in leather this morning as well). This morning we had an absolutely beautiful morning 60F, and clear blue skys. After breakfast I regathered my supplies, grabbed the little teak table off the patio for a work-station and set to work with the DA polisher and the ScratchX.

Yes, the ScratchX is very mild, but I was able to knock down at least 50% of the scratch with it and in some places the entire scratch. After about 3 or 4 applications, I decided to let is settle and see where I was.

So.... This is the "Before

















This is after:

This is a SUPER close up -- hunting for it in just the right light and hone in on the imperfection photo.









This is what 99.7% of the population will see if they scrutinize my car.



















The usual laundry stack after weekly car washing:









Sooooo: Bottom Line:
1) I will probably find a little more aggressive polish and tackle this again, now that I know I can't screw it up.

2) I am very thankful for all the folks out there in 'festerland that were willing to share their expertise with me and give me the confidence to go after the eyesore.

3) I love clear skies in Texas except when it comes to taking pics of a spiffed up Space Gray Bimmer, 'cause it looks more blue than gray in the photos!


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## Bill-SD (Feb 18, 2002)

Glad you got up the confidence to give it a try! From the closeup, it looks like it is deeper than it looked in the first pictures? For sure you'll need something stronger than ScratchX for that one.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

Bill-SD said:


> Glad you got up the confidence to give it a try! From the closeup, it looks like it is deeper than it looked in the first pictures? For sure you'll need something stronger than ScratchX for that one.


Yeah. The good news is I really had to hunt for the camera angle to take the "after" pic, as well as, zooming in a lot tighter. The first pics were taken on an overcast day, and even on a bright day, the scratches were a bit more noticeable. I was just researching the Menzerna Polish.

Looks like I'm going to have to step up to the plate again with a stronger polish. Thanks for input. Everything I can learn about this is good.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

Yeah's a little deeper than it originally looked. I just hope it's not all the way through the clear coat, which would require some repainting to make it perfect. You may need to go to a compound like the Menzerna power gloss compound: here's the chart for Menzerna products from the board sponsor:

http://www.autogeek.net/menzerna-of-germany.html

In fact, you may want to contact autogeek for the best solution for you as I'm sure he's tried most of then products he sells. I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping, especially if you make a purchase.


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## Nordic_Kat (Aug 5, 2009)

335i Driver said:


> Yeah's a little deeper than it originally looked. I just hope it's not all the way through the clear coat, which would require some repainting to make it perfect. You may need to go to a compound like the Menzerna power gloss compound: here's the chart for Menzerna products from the board sponsor:
> 
> http://www.autogeek.net/menzerna-of-germany.html
> 
> In fact, you may want to contact autogeek for the best solution for you as I'm sure he's tried most of then products he sells. I'm sure he wouldn't mind helping, especially if you make a purchase.


Yes, that one "after" pic actually exaggerates the scratch much more. I retook a pic this afternoon using the same focal length and f-stops as I used for the original photos (trying to compare apples to apples). This new photo is a lot more representative of the end result. It's still there, but a lot less noticeable, in fact, now I have to look to find it. I think the wax had to cure, because it looks significantly better now than before. I also had to take the pic 90 degrees from the angle of the original pic for the lens to even be able to focus on it which is also why the other "after" pic might looks deeper -- as it also was taken from the cross-wise view. (I just cropped and rotated it before uploading ).










I'm still going to talk to the folks at Autogeek about the best menzerna product to use to finish the job... I think I'm going to get a Christmas card from them this year with all supplies I've recently acquired from them!


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