# Help! Hard water stains seem to be permanent!



## Soupcan325i (Sep 17, 2003)

Over the course of washings in places with particularly hard water (florida, georgia), my 2003 orient blue seems to have picked up some permanent water spots on the paint in spite of the wax (McGuires Gold Class) that's on it. This is terrible! 

1) The spots seem to be etched into the clearcoat - how is it even possible for regular tap water to do this to clearcoat?

2) Is there any way to remove them? I've tried both distilled water, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol with no success, what's the next step? Oddly, the distilled water seemed to leave its own spots, which doesn't make any sense to me since it should be free of minerals...?

3) Is there any way to keep them from getting any worse? Other than towel drying the car after a wash, is there something I can apply to keep these water spots off? So far, wax hasn't worked...and sometimes I get hit by an errant sprinkler or hose. 

I would really appreciate any help with this, the water spots look terrible! I'm sure they wouldn't be as noticeable on a lighter car, but I'm stuck with orient blue.


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## Clarke (Oct 21, 2002)

Living in Florida with well water I feel your pain,believe me I've been there.You will have to use polish and/or cleaner wax to work out the spots.Extra layers of wax would not be a bad thing either for protection.For the future try the Mr. Clean Autodry.Give the car a wash with your a regular car wash soap then before it dries use the Mr.Clean stuff to finish.This has finally allowed me to wash my cars at home rather than at Uwash/spray places.Good Luck!==ps You might try a Dawn wash and claying before the Polish/Waxing


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

Soupcan325i said:


> 2) Is there any way to remove them? I've tried both distilled water, vinegar, and rubbing alcohol with no success, what's the next step? Oddly, the distilled water seemed to leave its own spots, which doesn't make any sense to me since it should be free of minerals...?


Clay bar. I'm convinced it can clean any smooth surface.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

FenPhen said:


> Clay bar. I'm convinced it can clean any smooth surface.


 :stupid:


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## Soupcan325i (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks for the quick reply guys...not to be contrary but a search of the forum revealed conflicting info about whether a claybar would help with water stains. Does anyone have pos or neg firsthand experience? Any other ideas besides the clay? Would 3M's IHG make any difference? Would a professional detailer be able to remove these stains?


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

Soupcan325i said:


> Thanks for the quick reply guys...not to be contrary but a search of the forum revealed conflicting info about whether a claybar would help with water stains. Does anyone have pos or neg firsthand experience? Any other ideas besides the clay? Would 3M's IHG make any difference? Would a professional detailer be able to remove these stains?


I don't know what IHG is and I'm no detailing expert, but I have used a clay bar on several cars of different ages with different amounts of care/neglect. The clay bar has been able to get off everything except scratches, knicks, and dings. "Everything" means dirt, bugs, bird crap, stains, iron flecks (rail dust?), etc. not other paint (one car's chrome bumper got hit with what appears to be a paintball filled with real paint and that won't come out  ).

One car had this stain on it that had been there for several years and I could never get it out, but then I decided to get more serious about car care and tried the clay bar. It took some elbow grease but the stain came out. I don't know what the stain was, but it looked like someone slung some chemical at the paint and left a subtle dark splatter.

In any case, clay bar can't hurt, and shouldn't set you back more than $20 for two bars (that's a liberal estimate). Two bars should last a long time. Just get it and try it. At the very least, you'll find out just how clean "clean" really should be and you'll probably end up doing your whole car.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

what about a 50:50 mix of water and vinegar. :dunno: 

Spray it on let it soak for a few seconds wipe off. You would probably neewd to rewax that area as the vinegar would probably take off the wax.


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

Clay may take it off. If it doesn't, try a dilute solution of vinegar and distilled water, 50/50. This will remove most hard water deposits that are relatively new. It will also strip off the wax, so you will need to rewax the area.

Over time, hard water deposits chemically change, and etch the top molecular layers of the clearcoat (the various metal salts that create hard water are alkaline -- every time those deposits get wet, you have a localized alkaline spot glued to the paint surface), so really old stains may not be possible to remove under any circumstances with cleaning methods (such as those described above, and by others). In such a case the only solution is to polish the area. However, the depth of penetration of damage to the clearcoat is very shallow, so you can generally remove just about any stubborn hard water stain with common polishes and polishing procedures.

If you have to go this route, I'd recommend using a Random Orbital rather than by hand. Doing a good polishing job by hand is a real art, and if you have to use polishes with more abrasive cutting action to get the stain out, it is real easy to leave scratches by hand. An RO will make this really easy, and produce outstanding results.

There are a lot of people on this board that have the equipment, and plenty of experience. If you need to go the polishing route, see if there is someone in your area that would be willing to get together without and give you some help coming up to speed.

I polish my entire car with the mildest polish twice a year as a matter of course, to work out the inevitable microswirls from washing and waxing, and to keep it mirror-like. Investing in an RO tool and a set of polishes and pads is one of the best investments any car enthusiast can make.


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## ///MDex (Dec 11, 2003)

LmtdSlip said:


> what about a 50:50 mix of water and vinegar.


What I was gonna say. KISS

And here too...

HTH


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## pwalk (Mar 2, 2004)

Soupcan, I also live in Florida, and I have fought hard water stains on a couple of different cars. I have found that using Menzerna Intensive Polish and Final Polish with a random orbital sander got rid of 90% of visible water spots.

I tried vinegar and clay bar with limited success.

If you have more questions, may I suggest you visit www.autopia.org. Do a search for water spots. You will find more information that you can imagine about how to get rid of those spots, and millions of tips for keeping your car looking brand new :thumbup:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

FenPhen said:


> I don't know what IHG is and I'm no detailing expert, but I have used a clay bar on several cars of different ages with different amounts of care/neglect. The clay bar has been able to get off everything except scratches, knicks, and dings. "Everything" means dirt, bugs, bird crap, stains, iron flecks (rail dust?), etc. not other paint (one car's chrome bumper got hit with what appears to be a paintball filled with real paint and that won't come out  ).


 How ironic, given that claybars' original use was for paint overspray removal!


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## JonathanIT (Feb 12, 2004)

I found clay also works excellent for removing those annoying water spots that show up on the windshield (and all glass) everytime I wash. I used to use a damn straight razor to scrape them off, they bothered me so much. I use Adam's polishes detail spray as a lube and my Zaino clay and it works great. I've never gotten windows so clean and it's fast and easy!


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