# BMWCCA GGC Autocross classification system



## KrisL (Dec 22, 2001)

We've just released a new classification system for the 2007 autocross season.

If you want to calculate points manually (or see how many points are charged), find your car here. Take the base points (blue column), then add add up your mod points listed here (note, you must also add sport pkg points even if you chose a sport pkg car in the base points).

I also created an online points calculator that does it all for you. It also provides some additional information on what to choose based on the car that you've picked:

http://autox.ggcbmwcca.org/classify.php

I'm interested what people in other chapters think. We had a points-based classification system before, but we've simplified it quite a bit to make it easier to understand. We also grouped engine mods together in 4 buckets so people can add specific things for "free".

For those in the Bay Area, our first autocross is April 21st back down in Marina.

-Kris
(GGC AutoX co-coordinator)


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## cenotaph (Dec 19, 2001)

Everything that follows is my opinion. It comes from my 5 yrs. of autocross experience, and talking with guys that have much more experience than I. 



> (note, you must also add sport pkg points even if you chose a sport pkg car in the base points).


The web page explains this better, but I'd still lean towards having all the points for the sport package built into the base points of the car.



> We also grouped engine mods together in 4 buckets so people can add specific things for "free".


I don't like doing this. In the general case, the biggest problem is that it will either hurt people that don't do all the mods in a group (by giving them points for mods they don't have if you make the groups add a lot of points), or help people that do all the mods in a group (by not giving them enough points because the points a group adds are low). It also has a tendency to make people feel that they have to do all the mods in a group to be competitive, and with an activity that's really just a hobby and not going to earn anyone any money, that's not a good thing.

From looking at the points you assign to each level, I'd say that 1, 3 and 4 might cost too few points and 2 probably cost too few points (especially for the number of mods it covers).

Questions/comments about base points:
Why is the ZHP on the 330i worth only 1 point more than the sports package, but worth 2 points more than the sports package on the 330Ci? Especially since the coups came with the sports suspension standard and not all the sedans did.

The base points for an E30 M3 seem low to me. It does have less power than the newer cars, but it's also significantly lighter, and doesn't have anywhere near as much built in understeer. Even when compared to an E36 M3. Now, if you run mainly courses that favor power over handling, this isn't a problem. However, if you run a lot of tight courses, I would consider giving the E30 M3 more base points.

My overall reaction is that the system is probably too simple. I understand the desire to make it easier to figure out what class your car is in, but I think this system isn't fine grained enough, and this will hurt the competitiveness of some cars. While this may not matter to your regular crowd, it could make it hard to get new people interested. Remember, figuring out what class your car belongs in is usually only done once a season, but you generally have to compete in a class the whole year, and, for a lot of people, constantly being uncompetitive isn't very fun. Of course, if you have a good instructor program most novices should see large improvements, and then being in an uncompetitive car won't matter as much.


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## KrisL (Dec 22, 2001)

cenotaph said:


> The web page explains this better, but I'd still lean towards having all the points for the sport package built into the base points of the car.


There is some method behind the madness here. On say, an E30, you can put E30 M3 suspension on an E30 325is quite easily. We don't want you to get charged for having a sport package suspension *and* an M suspension when you've got the same suspension as an M3.



cenotaph said:


> and with an activity that's really just a hobby and not going to earn anyone any money, that's not a good thing.
> 
> From looking at the points you assign to each level, I'd say that 1, 3 and 4 might cost too few points and 2 probably cost too few points (especially for the number of mods it covers).


I think this can go both ways. In previous years, we found people really wanted to add a cold air intake (for example), but they couldn't because it'd bump them into the next class. Our chapter tends to be less competitive than the local SCCA autocrosses. I'd rather have people mod their daily drivers however they want rather than mod them specifically for our classification system (once again, this can still certainly happen.. heh).

As far as how many points are charged for each group, we'll constantly be evaluating that. Our number crunchers re-classified many of least year's cars with the new system and found the results to be very consistent with charging points for each mod individually.



cenotaph said:


> Questions/comments about base points:
> Why is the ZHP on the 330i worth only 1 point more than the sports package, but worth 2 points more than the sports package on the 330Ci? Especially since the coups came with the sports suspension standard and not all the sedans did.


The 330i only had 9 months of production without the sport suspension standard, for what it's worth - but your question is valid. Our "magic" formula takes into account top speed in 2nd gear (obviously that depends on 2nd gear ratio, rear tire circumference, final drive ratio, and redline), rear tire size, and torque to weight ratio. Our data shows the coupe as ~30lbs heavier - that must have pushed the rounding down.



cenotaph said:


> Of course, if you have a good instructor program most novices should see large improvements, and then being in an uncompetitive car won't matter as much.


One of our work assignments is 'driver coach'. Only approved experienced autocrossers are allowed to sign up for this assignment.

I do appreciate your input and I don't think we'll really start to realize how the system is working into we're a few autocrosses in. Our local chapter has a forum and people seem to like the system quite a bit so far (but like I said, it was overly complex before.. we've swung it the other way and it may find it's way back to the middle over time).


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## cenotaph (Dec 19, 2001)

KrisL said:


> There is some method behind the madness here. On say, an E30, you can put E30 M3 suspension on an E30 325is quite easily. We don't want you to get charged for having a sport package suspension *and* an M suspension when you've got the same suspension as an M3.


I did see that. I just think that you could treat the M suspension as an after market one, and balance the points that way. :dunno: The extra step just grates on me as a likely source of future problems, but my job is finding problems with complex systems before they become actual products. 



> I think this can go both ways. In previous years, we found people really wanted to add a cold air intake (for example), but they couldn't because it'd bump them into the next class.


Yeah, I've been there too. 



> As far as how many points are charged for each group, we'll constantly be evaluating that. Our number crunchers re-classified many of least year's cars with the new system and found the results to be very consistent with charging points for each mod individually.


Ah. Well you probably won't have too many problems then.



> I do appreciate your input and I don't think we'll really start to realize how the system is working into we're a few autocrosses in. Our local chapter has a forum and people seem to like the system quite a bit so far (but like I said, it was overly complex before.. we've swung it the other way and it may find it's way back to the middle over time).


No problem. I think the Boston chapter stole your old points system and has made some changes to it over the years. The base points for some cars have been fiddled with as well as the points for some mods and the points needed for the various classes. I think it works pretty well, but we have some competitive people (2 of the top drivers in DSP at nationals last year compete with us), and I like to try and find the "sweet spots" in systems like this.  Add to that what I do as my day job, and this system looks to me like it could be easily abused.


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## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

Well, I can't comment on specifics as I haven't read through the points table yet, but I've always found the BMWCCA system a lot more accurate and fair than the absurd classifications used by the SCCA - where my 323i is lumped into the same class (DS) as the S4, R32, 330 w/ ZHP and WRX.  Why they haven't put it into GS with the C230 and A4 is beyond me.


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