# E60 530i beats its rivals!



## rost12 (Dec 22, 2001)

Car UK, November 2003 issue. Pardon the quality, I tried my best.


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## Zeitgist (Jun 1, 2002)

Thanks for the article. Btw, it mentions the new A6, any detaisl on that car?


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

Thanks for the article.  

I did find a couple of things pretty interesting or rather strange. As expected, the BMW is the best performance car of the group, which is great. And they did have negative comments on its interior compared to the E39 (obvious to anyone). But I felt they did not get a couple of things right:

1- They actually liked the 5er headlights??  :thumbdwn: 
2- They said an E-class can be confused with a C-class or an S-class??  :tsk: 
3- They mention how soft the E-class suspension was on the soft setting (which is its intent), but they never mention how much bette rit gets in sport-II mode, which every magazine in world has praised as changing the car's character. I am sure the BMW would still blow it away, but to come away with a general conclusion that the E-class is way too soft is just wrong.
4- Interior ergonomics ratings on magazines in general just bother me...

It seems people forget that buyers will actually OWN the car for more than two days. For example, my parents' Volvo has a simlar interior to that which they praise in the S80, yet I find it annoying EVERY time I go for a button that is buried behind the shiftknob. They also ALWAYS complain about the number of buttons. I like buttons. The more buttons I have, the more independent functions are. For instance, at first glance the E-class may seem to have too many buttons, but 10 buttons to the right of the screen are a numberpad which undoubtedly is great for punching radio stations, CD tracks, phone numbers, GPS adresses, etc. As far as the other buttons. They all serve a function and after a couple of weeks of owning the car you would know exactly what they all do and getting what you want would while driving be much easier than surfing to get to a function.


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## rost12 (Dec 22, 2001)

Zeitgist said:


> Thanks for the article. Btw, it mentions the new A6, any detaisl on that car?


Nope. I remember seeing some spyshots flying around the net, but that's about all I've ever seen/heard about it.


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## rost12 (Dec 22, 2001)

mbr129 said:


> Thanks for the article.
> 
> I did find a couple of things pretty interesting or rather strange.


Yeah, there are some strange notions in the article, like S-type beating E class and others you've mentioned... Well, that's what test-drives are for  You can never trust someone else to make a choice for you.

Btw, I'm starting to see more and more E60s on the streets and at the dealership... E60 definitely looks fresher than E39 and looks damn good from some angles. Still feels and looks cheap, especially inside. A pity


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

rost12 said:


> Yeah, there are some strange notions in the article, like S-type beating E class and others you've mentioned... Well, that's what test-drives are for  You can never trust someone else to make a choice for you.
> 
> Btw, I'm starting to see more and more E60s on the streets and at the dealership... E60 definitely looks fresher than E39 and looks damn good from some angles. Still feels and looks cheap, especially inside. A pity


Yep...the interior is my main complaint....

Chris


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Based on what they liked and didn't like (they said a large portion what they liked about the e60 was the drivetrain)-- I bet an E39 would've won the test by a greater margin. I'm happy they called BMW on the piss-poor interior-- US magazines aren't as blunt. Out of those cars, I'd have to take the E-class. Visually, I can only stand the Volvo and E-class- and the Volvo is a major FWD pig. I do agree w/ them that the Volvo's interior is the best out of all of them-- but as mbr points out it does have its drawbacks too.


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## 1RADBMR (Sep 24, 2003)

I've been keeping my powder dry, until I see one in person...but the overall press response can't be a good thing. I'm beginning to smell a mid-chasis redesign.


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## beware_phog (Mar 7, 2003)

Doesn't the interior wood trim on the BMW and MB look similar? Was that BMW's inspiration?


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## Zeitgist (Jun 1, 2002)

Ågent99 said:


> Yep...the interior is my main complaint....
> 
> Chris


I don't have a problem with the interior materials, but the layout really bothers me. The 3-button layout and the console remind me of the Accord interior (even the new Camry). It's not Spartan (as some reviewers have characterized it), but just so un-BMW. It just isn't driver-oriented ... In fact, that's my only complaint with i-Drive. For some reason, BMW insists on making the i-Drive accessible to both driver and passenger, thereby depriving BMW loyalists of that "cockpit" feel.


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

Zeitgist said:


> I don't have a problem with the interior materials, but the layout really bothers me. The 3-button layout and the console remind me of the Accord interior (even the new Camry). It's not Spartan (as some reviewers have characterized it), but just so un-BMW. It just isn't driver-oriented ... In fact, that's my only complaint with i-Drive. For some reason, BMW insists on making the i-Drive accessible to both driver and passenger, thereby depriving BMW loyalists of that "cockpit" feel.


There appears to be no doubt that the active suspension is better and the car probably drives better..but to have a complete redesign and not to win by a large margin should be a concern for BMW..usually the press loves there cars in some cases way too much...

I wonder what sales will be like..maybe great ...

I have seen some possible photos of the 2005 A6 ...looks awesome if the redesisn ends up like it. In fact I would consider an early trade in on it..Audi interiors are very nice..


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## Zeitgist (Jun 1, 2002)

nealh said:


> There appears to be no doubt that the active suspension is better and the car probably drives better..but to have a complete redesign and not to win by a large margin should be a concern for BMW..usually the press loves there cars in some cases way too much...
> 
> I wonder what sales will be like..maybe great ...
> 
> I have seen some possible photos of the 2005 A6 ...looks awesome if the redesisn ends up like it. In fact I would consider an early trade in on it..Audi interiors are very nice..


What's so special about Audi interiors. I was just in an A4 the other day and found it rather mundane and unspectacular.


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

Zeitgist said:


> What's so special about Audi interiors. I was just in an A4 the other day and found it rather mundane and unspectacular.


I'll agree with you. I think they are a clean design, but they are not beautiful.


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## nealh (Oct 4, 2003)

mbr129 said:


> I'll agree with you. I think they are a clean design, but they are not beautiful.


well layed out

I will say the interior on MY 96 A4 was nicer(more wood) than the 03 A4 but I still think the look and feel is better than BMW...the fit and finish was very nice as well

Also why cant BMW add indash 6 disc changer and have a tape deck ?

I sat in an A8 and ther "I-drive" setup was very nice not sure if 5 or 7 series controls are better or worse...still not sure I like the idea of I drive..wonder if it is more of a distraction ...I like to easyily change the settings on the radio, climate control etc ..I would not mind a large screen to view but I not sure I want I drive controller t omake changes


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## mbr129 (Aug 23, 2002)

nealh said:


> Also why cant BMW add indash 6 disc changer and have a tape deck ?


I agree with the in-dash CD changer. It would love it if it came standard, but they would likely charge you for it and reflect it in the base price if it were std. Given todays options, I think CD changers are old and cumbersome. Undoubtedly, in a few years phatbox-like systems will probably be very common.


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Zeitgist said:


> I don't have a problem with the interior materials, but the layout really bothers me. The 3-button layout and the console remind me of the Accord interior (even the new Camry). It's not Spartan (as some reviewers have characterized it), but just so un-BMW. It just isn't driver-oriented ... In fact, that's my only complaint with i-Drive. For some reason, BMW insists on making the i-Drive accessible to both driver and passenger, thereby depriving BMW loyalists of that "cockpit" feel.


Well, did you take a look at the headliner in the 530i? Wow, I was shocked...it looked like a high-end burlap sack to me. Very cheesy and very cheap looking.

Yes...no cockpit feel. It is like the dashboard is about a mile away from you...like the MB E class.

The 'aluminum' trim is cheap looking, too. Overall, the interior feels non-BMW (non-E39) and very much not what I would expect to find in a 50k car. It seems cheap and has a strong plastic feel to it if that makes any sense (maybe that means "cheap").

Chris


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## Zeitgist (Jun 1, 2002)

Ågent99 said:


> Yes...no cockpit feel. It is like the dashboard is about a mile away from you...like the MB E class.
> 
> Chris


Yeah, with the new interior you feel detached from the car, not part of it.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

nealh said:


> well layed out
> 
> I will say the interior on MY 96 A4 was nicer(more wood) than the 03 A4 but I still think the look and feel is better than BMW...the fit and finish was very nice as well
> 
> ...


Tape deck?? Probably because 90% of BMW's market wants them to move out of the stone age . Maybe making a tape deck a no-cost option would be possible but I don't think a tape deck suits the hi-tech image BMW is portraying with its new 5. Certainly, fitting a tape deck as standard (with NO changer) to all its 3 series cars in the UK, M3 CSL included, makes us spit the words "tape deck" with some venom...


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

mbr129 said:


> Thanks for the article.
> 
> I did find a couple of things pretty interesting or rather strange. As expected, the BMW is the best performance car of the group, which is great. And they did have negative comments on its interior compared to the E39 (obvious to anyone). But I felt they did not get a couple of things right:
> 
> ...


Some do like the headlights, especially at night. Like much of the car, it's a matter of taste.

An E class, to the untrained, non-petrolhead eye, is just a Merc. Merc's designs have recently been as same-y as BMW's used to be - when the C came out it looked very close to an S, despite being a couple of scales smaller.

Merc does not specify agressive suspension settings in the UK. Dunno why, maybe they're saving them for the AMGs.


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## beware_phog (Mar 7, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Well, did you take a look at the headliner in the 530i? Wow, I was shocked...it looked like a high-end burlap sack to me. Very cheesy and very cheap looking.
> 
> Yes...no cockpit feel. It is like the dashboard is about a mile away from you...like the MB E class.
> 
> ...


I went to my dealer and sat in a 7 (I always liked the 7), then sat in a 5, then sat in a 7, then back to the 5. This may seem wierd, but I have always thought the grey interior looked cheap compared to the black and tan. Grey bad always across the line.

My dealer had the silver grey with grey interior and black/tan (wasn't opened). The 7 I sat in, to see how different its interior was to the 5 (assuming the 7 is the inspiration)....it was tan. I think the tan compliments the wood fine as the trim (i.e. cheap plastic) is black as opposed to the cheap plastic grey.

The window buttons on the driver door seem cheap. Lots of plastic in the middle seems cheap. And agreeing with others, the lack of cockpit feel stinks. Can grey plastic seem cheap and black plastic seem OK.

Aluminum trim is OK by me but doesn't seem right in this car. Of course the doors will be wood trim soon.

Dealer says it has a modern interior. That must be the tag line.

I've had two 3 series and always felt that it is nice to be in a car which puts the driver at the center. Was planning on a five next summer....we'll see.?????


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## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

Nice article! So where do I sign up for an American magazine that goes into the same amount of depth on each car while will also give criticism when needed? :tsk: Or do I have to ante up the large lump sum (usually in the range of $60-$100 annually) for a Euro mag subscription?


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## postoak (Mar 5, 2002)

That side photo of the 5-series made me suddenly realize why I hate this new design so much. My eye follows the downward slanting line behind the rear window instead of following the top of the trunk line. This makes the car resemble nothing so much as that old '70s (I believe) Cadillac Seville design that was one of the ugliest cars in automotive history. I wish somebody could post a pic of that old Caddie. I looked around but couldn't find one.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

magbarn said:


> Nice article! So where do I sign up for an American magazine that goes into the same amount of depth on each car while will also give criticism when needed? :tsk: Or do I have to ante up the large lump sum (usually in the range of $60-$100 annually) for a Euro mag subscription?


you got to ante up the money  I subscibed to Car for a year, I think it was $80 or so, my favorite magazine but couldnt justify the money the following year so let it lapse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
suprised with the jag doing so well, I guess like they mentioned, the continual refinement of it has added up. Not much of a win for the 5 series after reading that article.

Checked out the E60 yesterday at my dealer, exterior look fine to me in person. Interior has some cheap stuff when you start poking around :thumbdwn:


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## postoak (Mar 5, 2002)

Perhaps the Jag did so well because it's a British magazine doing the reviewing.  

Look at the Jaguar boards over at Edmunds. There are some real reliability issues with this car. Same thing goes for the Mercedes. At the present time it would be hard for me to justify buying either of these.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

postoak said:


> Perhaps the Jag did so well because it's a British magazine doing the reviewing.
> 
> Look at the Jaguar boards over at Edmunds. There are some real reliability issues with this car. Same thing goes for the Mercedes. At the present time it would be hard for me to justify buying either of these.


After the e60 has been around for another few months-- i'm sure we'll see a good amount of reliability horror stories with it too. :dunno: Although, its true that MB quality/reliability has taken a nose-dive in the last few years.


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## adgrant (Aug 13, 2003)

*E60 530i barely beats its rivals*

Should be the title of the thread. I have to say that based on that article I would buy the Jag, almost as good and not ugly.


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