# Diesel additive



## Lifeisgood2 (Dec 22, 2017)

Anyone use an additive such as Poerservice or Howe's? Wondering if it would create issues with add blue system?


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Do not use additives!
To answer your question: very few people here are that stupid to use additives when manual clearly states not to use it. 


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## Uber Commuter (May 26, 2017)

The manual states not to use them because BMW doesn't want any liability from it; and stop insulting people simply because they think something different from you :thumbdwn:

OP - Additives are up to you, but they will not create any issues with Adblue, no. As the previous poster so rudely identified, BMW does specify no additives in the manual so any use would be at your own risk.

As the compounds in additives are already in the fuel you use, the risk is relatively small, but it is still a possiblity... Howe's, Powerservice, etc are all formulated for modern diesels and will no harm DPFs, SCR systems, or any other part of your exhaust.

Personally, I use Optilube in every tank. It worked beautifully for my previous VW, so I continue to use it in this car.


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## Lifeisgood2 (Dec 22, 2017)

Thank you for your thoughts and recommendation!


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Uber Commuter said:


> The manual states not to use them because BMW doesn't want any liability from it; and stop insulting people simply because they think something different from you :thumbdwn:
> 
> OP - Additives are up to you, but they will not create any issues with Adblue, no. As the previous poster so rudely identified, BMW does specify no additives in the manual so any use would be at your own risk.
> 
> ...


This topic is digested numerous times. 
Standing by stupidity comment. Point of using additives is? I guess Optilube engineers are identifying issue that people who created engine did not. 
I did not say OP is stupid. But you did find yourself in my comment.

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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Welcome to the world of BMW forums. Oil, tires, brake pads all generate tons of chatter. Everyone has an opinion about each, as do I, but at the end of the day all we read are opinions and / or a single data point from each member.
My data point on this is that when I bought my X5d back in 2013, I read the articles about additives. So much to consume. I ended up not being freaked or overly passionate about the whole thing, but took away that diesel fuel in US is short on cetane and lubricity compared to Euro fuel. Again, not freaked, but figured bringing up the lubricity level in particular would be good for the fuel pump and injectors in the long run. I started using PowerService Diesel Kleen with every other tank but boost lubricity and to a lesser level, cetane. 
Again, just a single data point, but my car just went past 77k miles earlier today and so far no issues of any kind.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Uber Commuter said:


> It worked beautifully for my previous VW, so I continue to use it in this car.


What is your definition of "worked beautifully", in this context??


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Lifeisgood2 said:


> Anyone use an additive such as Poerservice or Howe's? Wondering if it would create issues with add blue system?


No issues with AdBlue system. The fuel system and SCR systems are totally unrelated.

BMW's no additive stance is legal CYA because they can't be in the business of endorsing one particular additive over another in case one of them causes a problem. Whether or not you should use an additive is up to you.

Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat and PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) are my favorites and and I have been using them for the past 15 years and over 800k miles with no issues.

If you use PS, stick to using the Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) year round. PS Diesel Kleen (silver bottle) is for summer only use because it doesn't do anything for water or have any antigel for winter use.

Howes Lubricator Diesel Treat is good stuff but don't mix it with PS because the two additives work differently with how they control water. Howes contains a demulsifier while PS contains a solubilizer.

My primary concerns for using a fuel additive are to take care of any water I can't avoid getting and to increase lubricity. Boosting Cetane levels is of secondary importance. The HPFP in common rail diesels is more susceptible to damage from slugs of free water in the fuel compared to older rotary injector pump diesels. Free water in diesel fuel will destroy the HPFP in common rail diesels in no time at all and absolutely must be avoided at ALL costs.

Also be sure to fill up ONLY at high turnover stations along major routes to avoid getting fuel contaminated with water from condensation, especially during winter months in cold areas. Fuel at high diesel turnover stations along major routes will be the freshest fuel in the region because it is constantly being replaced, often daily. It is not uncommon for a busy truck stop along a major route to do more than $30k worth of diesel business in a single day. Go where the big rigs go to fuel up. Get your diesel fuel where everybody else does in your area.

The bottom line is fuel quality is ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING when it comes to ensuring long life and reliable service from the HPFP and other fuel system components.

Good luck and Welcome Aboard! 

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## Uber Commuter (May 26, 2017)

ard said:


> What is your definition of "worked beautifully", in this context??


Per my own testing, it improved my fuel economy and provided noticeable improvement in how the engine ran.

Obviously I didn't tear down the engine to determine wear, but there is testing that shows US lubricity requirements are too low for long term survivability of diesel HPFPs. With that in mind I wanted something that provided the best lubricity improvement.:thumbup:


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## Uber Commuter (May 26, 2017)

edycol said:


> This topic is digested numerous times.
> Standing by stupidity comment. Point of using additives is? I guess Optilube engineers are identifying issue that people who created engine did not.
> I did not say OP is stupid. But you did find yourself in my comment.


"Stupid" is anyone unable or unwilling to do their own research... Clearly, the only person I'd recognize in any of your comments is you...

The people who created the engine, or more importantly the fuel pump, already did identify the issues with US fuel supplies (poor lubricity); perhaps you should try looking that up instead of relying on the people who's only job is covering their own asses.


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## rbreding (Sep 6, 2016)

1. ULSD is very dry and what lubricates your HPFP?
2. ULSD can be susceptible to water contamination. What does water do to your HPFP? 
3. ULSD is susceptible to gelling and freezing during frigid Temps.

What has the "ability" to "solve" all three of those problems and save you tens of thousands of dollars from a grenaded HPFP? I will stick to using power service and diesel extreme on all three of my BMW diesels. You decide for yourself.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Uber Commuter said:


> "Stupid" is anyone unable or unwilling to do their own research... Clearly, the only person I'd recognize in any of your comments is you...
> 
> The people who created the engine, or more importantly the fuel pump, already did identify the issues with US fuel supplies (poor lubricity); perhaps you should try looking that up instead of relying on the people who's only job is covering their own asses.


And when those fuel pump fail? I see people with 250k on these engines. So please let us know. Spread the knowledge. You said people who created engine or fuel pump already identified problem, so do us a favor a post TSB of that. Or this is Big Mike said to little John that BMW pumps fail so let's use additives, like it is 1959.

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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

rbreding said:


> 1. ULSD is very dry and what lubricates your HPFP?
> 2. ULSD can be susceptible to water contamination. What does water do to your HPFP?
> 3. ULSD is susceptible to gelling and freezing during frigid Temps.
> 
> What has the "ability" to "solve" all three of those problems and save you tens of thousands of dollars from a grenaded HPFP? I will stick to using power service and diesel extreme on all three of my BMW diesels. You decide for yourself.


Someone needs to tell all those diesels in Europe to better start failing.

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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

edycol said:


> Someone needs to tell all those diesels in Europe to better start failing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is precisely the problem. The fuel properties are different in EU and US. Lower cetane and lubricity in the US, which is why I use an additive to bring it up to par with Euro levels.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

What FredoinSF said.

My primary concerns for using an additive are to take care of any water I can't avoid getting and to help increase lubricity. Providing antigel and boosting Cetane levels are of secondary concern.

Our ULSD right from the pump meets the ASTM spec for lubricity but most ULSD in the USA does not meet a tighter lubricity spec (wear scar size no greater than 460 microns in HFRR test) that manufacturers want in order to guarantee no fuel system failures. We are totally at the mercy of the fuel suppliers as to whether they are doing their job or not. Diesel fuel will also pick up water over time from condensation which will destroy the HPFP in common rail diesels in no time at all and will do so faster than poor lubricity will. A single tank of water contaminated fuel from a station that rarely gets any diesel business is all it takes. That's why I go where the big rigs go to fuel up because fuel turnover is very high. I prefer be careful where I fuel up to avoid getting watery fuel and preemptively treat my fuel instead of leaving things totally to chance.

Fuel quality is ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING when it comes to ensuring long life and reliable service from the HPFP and other fuel system components.

Have fun! 


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

edycol said:


> Someone needs to tell all those diesels in Europe to better start failing.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In Europe, BWM recommend and sell diesel additive. The BMW diesel fuel additive is a rebranded Liqui-Moly diesel additive.

https://www.baronsgroup.co.uk/bmw/bmw-fuel-additive

The BMW part number for the diesel fuel additive is: 83192296922

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BMW-Origin...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=NDSE811CEWABW9JX8GK4


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

montr said:


> In Europe, BWM recommend and sell diesel additive. The BMW diesel fuel additive is a rebranded Liqui-Moly diesel additive.
> 
> https://www.baronsgroup.co.uk/bmw/bmw-fuel-additive
> 
> ...


To be clear, that is a BMW **DEALERSHIP** selling that, not "BMWAG"- correct?

Yes, BMWAG makes that part available to it's dealers OUS.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

Agreed. BMW owners manual in EU and US state that no additives are required for diesel fuel, gasoline fuel and oil.

If no additive are recommended, why BMW put its name on Liqui-Moly Diesel additive and resell it through the BMW dealership?

For gasoline engine, Techron is rebranded BMW under part number 82140413341: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-bmw-parts/fuel-system-cleaner-20-fluid-oz/82140413341/

BTW, additive are added to the fuel by the fuel supplier. So it is OK for the fuel supplier to add additive but not OK for the owner to add additive!


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

montr said:


> Agreed. BMW owners manual in EU and US state that no additives are required for diesel fuel, gasoline fuel and oil.
> 
> *If no additive are recommended, why BMW put its name on Liqui-Moly Diesel additive and resell it through the BMW dealership?*
> 
> ...


Money

Dont confuse 'permitted' with 'recommended'.

I suppose if I was an additive believer, I gcould regale you with stories about my engines with 200, 300k miles and no issues- all due to the additives I use.

Except I dont use additives.

Think of it as a religion or belief system, probably have a more coherent conversation.

:angel:


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

I will add that if BMW recommended it and marketed it in the USA, they'd have to provide it free of charge under the maintenance plan.

Could be the reason perhaps??


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

montr said:


> In Europe, BWM recommend and sell diesel additive. The BMW diesel fuel additive is a rebranded Liqui-Moly diesel additive.
> 
> https://www.baronsgroup.co.uk/bmw/bmw-fuel-additive
> 
> ...


I better tell my brother to have conversation with his 525d that he once had that made 280k (miles) without additives. 
I had more then 10 diesels in Europe and never used additives. I did start also Skoda Octavia A5 1.9tdi on -42c using ULSD. Must be a dream. 
By the way read carefully. Same additives found in fuel are found in BMW additives. I yet to see low quality fuel in EU28. But, why not making an additional dollar.

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