# Tires (and wheels) that pump themselves up...



## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

https://www.motor1.com/news/372175/smart-tire-continental/


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

Autoputzer said:


> https://www.motor1.com/news/372175/smart-tire-continental/


" This *complex system* allows Continental's tire to report critical data as well as monitor tire pressure to keep it within the correct parameters. [my emphasis]"


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

Doug Huffman said:


> " This *complex system* allows Continental's tire to report critical data as well as monitor tire pressure to keep it within the correct parameters. [my emphasis]"


Here's my not-complex system. I have upgraded from a $4 mechanical tread depth gauge to a $10 digital one that measures to 0.001".

I know an MSEE who never checks his tire pressures unless the TPMS light comes on (which is at ~20% below the baseline pressure). Otherwise, his tires only get air during an oil change service. He's not alone, and those people keep tire factories and tire stores in business.

Lack of care for tires is why cars have TPMS's instead of just TPM's (tire pressure monitors). TPM was a lot of bang for the buck. The only additional hardware needed is an indicator light and a reset button. The first copy of the software to implement it was expensive. But, subsequent copies of the software were free. (That's the beauty of software.. and why Bill Gates is a billionaire.)

It's too cramped to check and top off my tires inside my garage. So, I have to do it in the driveway. We have three cars and a check them every two to three weeks. As the weather cools in the fall, I do it closer to every two weeks. My nosy, semi-senile neighbors are always asking me "Do you have a flat tire?"


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

My complex system is quite embarrassing, it consists of a routine to check tire pressures regularly at Costco(even on long trips if there are stores along the way) with either Costco's digital gauages, or my own analog gauges. 

My usual cold pressure is 34psi, measured early in the morning(door jam says 32psi), at all 4 corners.


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## zod (Jan 8, 2019)

I use a good dial gauge to measure tire pressure. BMW handling isn't affected that much, but tire wear is. Datsuns/Nissans are perfectly nimble with the proper tire pressure on all four corners. The result is worth the effort.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

namelessman said:


> My complex system is quite embarrassing, it consists of a routine to check tire pressures regularly at Costco(even on long trips if there are stores along the way) with either Costco's digital gauages, or my own analog gauges.
> 
> My usual cold pressure is 34psi, measured early in the morning(door jam says 32psi), at all 4 corners.


Give yourself some credit namelessman. 

Your "complex system" for tire pressure checks at Costco is laudable, not embarrassing. My HPDE instructor would be very pleased with your system. And Costco is very happy with your system too, I'm sure. Costco does the best job among its warehouse club peers in member retention, thanks in part to services like self-serve tire pressure checks at its Tire Service Centers.

Until Costco Tire Service Centers start selling Continental products, or until technologies like Continental C.A.R.E. become widespread, keep doing what you're doing with your "complex system". :thumbup:


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

gkr778 said:


> Give yourself some credit namelessman.
> 
> Your "complex system" for tire pressure checks at Costco is laudable, not embarrassing. My HPDE instructor would be very pleased with your system. And Costco is very happy with your system too, I'm sure. Costco does the best job among its warehouse club peers in member retention, thanks in part to services like self-serve tire pressure checks at its Tire Service Centers.
> 
> Until Costco Tire Service Centers start selling Continental products, or until technologies like Continental C.A.R.E. become widespread, keep doing what you're doing with your "complex system". :thumbup:


Thanks for words of encouragement.:thumbup:

Costco provides great service, and the tire prices are great especially when they offer $0.01/tire installment on top of Michelin/Bridgestone $70 off coupons! Unfortunately Costco still uses Coats tire balancers that did not work for my old E39(on a set of RE960AS PS).

These days my tires are serviced at Americas Tire. The crew there use impact torque wrench with an adapter to prevent over torquing, then hand torque to spec(their heavy duty torque wrenches are not cheap). Their Hunter machines can do road force balance and the results are great esp. at high speeds.  Maybe Costco can also invest in Hunters some day.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

Here's another link showing two pumps on the wheel, 180 degrees apart, needed to maintain balance.

https://www.rubbernews.com/tire/continental-unveils-care-system-av-fleet-tire-monitoring


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

Roflmapmsl



autoputzer said:


> here's my not-complex system. I have upgraded from a $4 mechanical tread depth gauge to a $10 digital one that measures to 0.001".
> 
> I know an msee who never checks his tire pressures unless the tpms light comes on (which is at ~20% below the baseline pressure). Otherwise, his tires only get air during an oil change service. He's not alone, and those people keep tire factories and tire stores in business.
> 
> ...


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

I got you beat

Yee gads man are you crazy, other people may use there own stuff
I have a BMW so I pay exorbitant amounts for other people to do my work

OEM air
OEM tires

plus I get free coffee and danish



Autoputzer said:


> Here's my not-complex system.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

jaye944 said:


> I got you beat
> 
> Yee gads man are you crazy, other people may use there own stuff
> I have a BMW so I pay exorbitant amounts for other people to do my work
> ...


Talking about exorbitant prices, two local dealers charge $800+ parts + labor for spark plugs job in a 4-cylinder, while one other $440, yet another $400. They do remind customers there is $50 coupon from BMWNA!

The 4 plugs are $64 from dealers selling online, and trusted local indies charge $70-80 for labor. The indy's torque wrench is much better than my cheapo tool, so the job was awarded to him. 

The BMW TIS page says the cowl plus strut bars need to be replaced in order to access last cylinder, while indies figure out how to do it without removing cowl.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

I guess OEM air is nitrogen. 

The service manager at the dealership I use says she gets calls from customers saying that they got a TPSM warning message, and ask if it's safe to just put air in the tires, or do they need to bring the car in for service.

Here's my current 1.75-car garage. We're building an new house next year, and the dysfunctional garage was the first thing fixed in the new house plans, followed a close second by the dysfunctional cat bathroom (liter boxes under the laundry room sink). 

The new garage will be big enough to have a full four feet between three Cadillac Escalades parked in there. The garage will also be behind the house, ~120 feet from the road.


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

I tried it once, a real pain, much easier without the strut bars,
The cowl needs to come off for the last screw/nut right under the cowl, else the
cover wont come off, most older cars, have that "missing" 



namelessman said:


> The BMW TIS page says the cowl plus strut bars need to be replaced in order to access last cylinder, while indies figure out how to do it without removing cowl.


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

>>>I guess OEM air is nitrogen. 

BMW OEM air, let's get this right, you don't wanna ever mix them up, BMW OEM air has the right mix of nitrogen, I believe 78%

>>>>The service manager at the dealership I use says she gets calls from customers saying that they got a TPSM warning message, and ask if it's safe to just put air in the tires, or do they need to bring the car in for service.

LOL oh thats funny :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

And a self-serving self aggrandizing lie.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

jaye944 said:


> >>>I guess OEM air is nitrogen.
> 
> BMW OEM air, let's get this right, you don't wanna ever mix them up, BMW OEM air has the right mix of nitrogen, I believe 78%
> 
> ...


I don't know if it's the dealer or BMW. But, our last BMW came with green valve stem caps, signifying that the tires were filled with (reasonably) pure nitrogen. The dealer didn't charge for N2 as part of new car prep', either.

She also said that people are annoyed about getting TPMS warnings. They don't understand that it's warning them their tire pressure is low, affecting tire wear and fuel economy. That's sort of an example of blaming the messenger (TPMS in this case) for bad news.

There's a Michelin office building next to the Marriot hotel BMW puts you up in when you're picking up a car in Spartanburg. I took a friend up to pick up a car in 2014. He went for an after dinner cigar-and-farting walk and walked over to the Michelin building's parking lot. He said that there was an N2 dispenser there for employees to top off their tires.

There was a quick study done by Consumer Reports. They found that pure nitrogen leaks out of tires at a slower rate (~80%) than air (78% nitrogen). That's because O2 and H2O molecules are smaller than N2 molecules. That could be a reason for BMW to full tires at the factory with N2... keeping those TPMS warning from popping up so often.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

jaye944 said:


> I tried it once, a real pain, much easier without the strut bars,
> The cowl needs to come off for the last screw/nut right under the cowl, else the
> cover wont come off, most older cars, have that "missing"


There is a utube video that shows how to access 4th cylinder of F30 N20/N26 without removing the cowl.

The trick is to gently bend the rubber tip of ignition coil to remove/install, plus use swivel + 3-inch extension, esp. when the plugs are at a slight angle w.r.t. to the opening(not straight down). The wrench may not be able to click on the extension, but at 23nm/17lb-ft it should be OK, or experienced hand can do it by feel too.


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

N52 here :angel:



namelessman said:


> There is a utube video that shows how to access 4th cylinder of F30 N20/N26 without removing the cowl.
> 
> The trick is to gently bend the rubber tip of ignition coil to remove/install, plus use swivel + 3-inch extension, esp. when the plugs are at a slight angle w.r.t. to the opening(not straight down). The wrench may not be able to click on the extension, but at 23nm/17lb-ft it should be OK, or experienced hand can do it by feel too.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

There is never time to do it right the first time but ALWAYS money to do it over.

Late in my career there was a project to transfer our experience to an expert work packaging system. Ignore an expert system at your peril. Someone paid a lot of money to document that required step that you shadetrees think unnecessary.

LOL. ***8220;Bend***8221; Sparkplugs at a slight angle are how the insulator gets broken. A swivel on a torque wrench - why bother, close is good enough unless it isn***8217;t.


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

Doug Huffman said:


> There is never time to do it right the first time but ALWAYS money to do it over.
> 
> Late in my career there was a project to transfer our experience to an expert work packaging system. Ignore an expert system at your peril. Someone paid a lot of money to document that required step that you shadetrees think unnecessary.
> 
> LOL. "Bend" Sparkplugs at a slight angle are how the insulator gets broken. A swivel on a torque wrench - why bother, close is good enough unless it isn't.


no argument here , 
I refer back to my Porsche anecdote


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Doug Huffman said:


> LOL. "Bend" Sparkplugs at a slight angle are how the insulator gets broken. A swivel on a torque wrench - why bother, close is good enough unless it isn't.


My spark plug job was almost a DIY, unfortunately the cheapo 14mm 12-point thin wall socket bought is not magnetic, instead it has metal legs that can scratch/damage the insulators. My trusted magnetic 16mm 12-point (also thin wall) socket cannot be reused with this new type of plugs. Also not all indies can answer the question of why to use swivel, so the first one that gave the right answer(plus bms 14mm 12-point magnetic socket, and calibrated wrench) was given the job($80 well earned and well spent).


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

a wise old man once told me engineering, is an exact science, 1+1=2 not 1.5 or Meh, 
you want close enough, do bodywork or spray cars for a living


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## zod (Jan 8, 2019)

jaye944 said:


> a wise old man once told me engineering, is an exact science, 1+1=2 not 1.5 or Meh,
> you want close enough, do bodywork or spray cars for a living


Unless 1 = 2. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI9CaQD7P6I


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

zod said:


> unless 1 =2.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi9caqd7p6i


lol


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

zod said:


> Unless 1 =2.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI9CaQD7P6I


Division by zero. In the step obscured by the GO button. (a - b) = 0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_fallacy


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

I have a better one - I can prove you have 11 fingers not 10/

(holds up both hands)
(on one hand count) 1,2,3,4,5 - right that's 5 fingers 
I say you have 11 fingers, (start counting back on other hand from 11) , 11,10,9,8,7,6
ok, so lets add that up 5 fingers on one hand 6 fingers on the other

Voila you have 11 fingers


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

MA, that there man says I don have 2 apples, I has 1 one in one hand and one apple in t'other
I makes that 2, but Ma he's saying thats wrong
guess you shuda sent me to dat fancy school, instead of gitting road kill

(gotta read it in a hillbilly type accent)


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

jaye944 said:


> I say you have 11 fingers, (start counting back on other hand from 11) , 11,10,9,8,7,6


If YOU could count fingers on one hand ***8220;11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6***8221; then you would indeed have six fingers on that hand. 11(first), 10(second), 9(third), 8(fourth), 7(fifth), 6(sixth).

When I did my EMT I got to work in hospital delivery room and we counted newborn fingers and toes a lot.


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## jaye944 (Jul 5, 2015)

Doug Huffman said:


> If YOU could count fingers on one hand "11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6" then you would indeed have six fingers on that hand. 11(first), 10(second), 9(third), 8(fourth), 7(fifth), 6(sixth).
> 
> When I did my EMT I got to work in hospital delivery room and we counted newborn fingers and toes a lot.


This does work better with 8 years olds,


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## zod (Jan 8, 2019)

Doug Huffman said:


> Division by zero. In the step obscured by the GO button. (a - b) = 0
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_fallacy


At Michigan Tech, it was a reminder of your algebra before you embarked on the linear and abstract algebras after having your head fed up with all sorts of engineering calculus for three straight quarters. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZpUjcLJEqw

Mahalo


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