# Saturn division



## Fulltone74 (Oct 19, 2005)

So if the saturn name gets shutdown, are they going to keep any of the cars but rebadge them as something else? 

It is rumored that the Pontiac name will also be shut down. 

But pontiac has the solstice and saturn has the Sky. 
Structurally they are clones, but the Sky IMHO looks far nicer with the bodywork. 

I'd like to see GM at least keep that car under a different name.


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## z06bigbird (Aug 25, 2008)

Supposedly, Sky is gone.


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## RadioWave (Jan 22, 2004)

There's certainly some precedent for it. When Geo shutdown back in 97, several of their cars suddenly became Chevy's. I know the Metro, Prizm and the Tracker did. I agree with you, most Saturns are better than anything else GM has right now.


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm sure GM will try their best to still make 22343312 different versions of the same car with different badges on them like they always have.


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## spazmataz (Aug 6, 2006)

I was having this argument with a family member!! I felt like saturn has come around and all the cars they have right now are very good cars! Honestly if it werent for the pontiac G8, I'd rather they kill the pontiac side of things. He said the G8 has links from Australia or something like that and thats why they probably wont get rid of pontiac! Oh well! it's still awful!


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## 99328ic (Feb 8, 2009)

Pontiac will be come nitch brand i think is what they are saying, they will offer the G8 and one other car. Saturn will be closed down. All of Saturn's cars are based off of another GM division's car anyways so no real need for it. Hummer is going to try and be sold by the end of the year if not it will then be phased out. That's all the info that I have heard so far dealing with GM.


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## 645ilubu (Oct 22, 2004)

spazmataz said:


> I was having this argument with a family member!! I felt like saturn has come around and all the cars they have right now are very good cars! Honestly if it werent for the pontiac G8, I'd rather they kill the pontiac side of things. He said the G8 has links from Australia or something like that and thats why they probably wont get rid of pontiac! Oh well! it's still awful!


I feel like Saturn lost it's way a long time ago. When it first came out, it was a "different kind of car company". They had a sedan, a wagon, and a coupe...all with unique plastic body panels not shared by any other GM division (not sure on the engines and suspension).

Over the years, the plastic body panels disappeared, the cars got bigger and then finally replaced with other GM brands. I don't know if they even do the "no haggle" pricing anymore. The Aura is the Chevy Malibu, the Sky/Solstice is an Opel GT, the Astra is an Opel Astra, the Outlook is a Chevy Traverse/Buick Enclave/GMC Acadia, and the Vue is the Chevy Equinox. Not an original car in the lineup...just badge engineering.

What happened to the cars that owners trekked back to Spring Hill, Tn every year?

Essentially, GM made them into just another Buick, Pontiac, etc....sad.


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## Robsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Unlike the other GM brands Saturn is it's own company. I read they are thinking about getting out of the manufacturing and focus on the selling. Many companies in China, Europe and India that would like to get some cars into the US. They could make deals with different manufacturers to sell here. It does make sense but is there time to put together something like that.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Robsa said:


> Unlike the other GM brands Saturn is it's own company.


Yes and no. The Saturn brand could be spun off. However Saturn is not independent of GM in the way it once was.

Saturn cars are all on global GM platforms. For example the Saturn Aura, Chevy Malibu, and the Pontiac G6 are all on GM's Epsilon platform.

Engines are GM Ecotecs.

Saturn Astra is a rebadged imported Opel Astra. Car is built in Belgium. One of GM's better cars.
Saturn Vue is Opel/Vauxhall Antara but built in GMs Mexico plant.

If a buyer for Saturn is found, what exactly are they buying? If they get the TN plant, what can it build? The current models are very dependent on other GM divisions. What can they import, rebadge and sell as a Saturn?

There are similarities to the purchase of MG-Rover by Shanghi Automotive Industry Corporation(SAIC) and Nanjing Automobile Group.

SAIC found themselves in the odd position of being able to build Rovers but not owning the Brand Name. Just like Rover, they are able to build a car that has no buyers.


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

My advise to GM would be to turn Saturn into their Green Division sell Hybrids, electric, anything that will be percieved by the public as enviromentally friendly and leaving very little carbon emissions and very high milage. Green everything, cars, trucks, wagons, suvs, get the hydrogen in there as well, conentrate on small size and fuel efficiency.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Fulltone74 said:


> So if the saturn name gets shutdown, are they going to keep any of the cars but rebadge them as something else?


GM announced all current Saturn models will end production in the next year or so. I've read that the Chevy Volt is built on the same Delta II platform as the new for 2009 Opel Astra.

There may be room in GM's survival plan for a next-gen Chevy Astra. More so if a Eurpean funded bailout plan for Opel and Vauxhall kept them part of GM. Current news reports discuss making Opel/Vauxhall independent of GM. If that happens, don't expect to see Chevy badged Opels.


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## Robsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> If a buyer for Saturn is found, what exactly are they buying?


The biggest thing they have to offer is their dealer network. When they were formed only the dealers with the best customer satisfaction ratings were chosen. Unlike the Big 2.5 they didn't put one on every corner. So that would be attractive to an outside manufacturer looking to get into the US market. Anyway they go the odds really seem to be against them.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Robsa said:


> Anyway they go the odds really seem to be against them.


Mmmm.

SAIC? It shouldn't be too hard to Federalize the obsolete Rover designs. Half of them were Honda based anyway. It would be funny to see Saturn dealers with showrooms full of Chinese built Saturn (Rover) 75's.

Looks and novelty would sell a few thousand MG TF's, but there is no need to rebadge it Saturn.

Who else? VW? Proton?? Fiat??? Peugeot??? Dacia???? Tata?????

VW could start building Skodas (their economy brand) in the US or Mexico. Poor Euro/Dollar exchange rate makes imported economy cars too expensive. Not likely but VW is in a stronger position than most carmakers.

I could see the Fiat 500 selling moderately well. It is cute. The rest of the Fiat line doesn't stand a chance in the US.

We like the 207 but Peugeot/Citroen do not have cars suitable for the US market. The Euro / $ rate won't help. And they are in no position to buy an American factory.

Dacia's make French cars look reliable. The Duster concept would sell. Rumors are that Dacia is going to build it. But a car built in Romania on a Renault platform?


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

*Th!nk*

Th!nk just announced they are planning to expand into the US market and will be building cars in the US.

Would an electric car with a 112 mile range and a 70mph top speed be something to sell at Saturn dealers?

300 employees building 16,000 cars per year. Not enough for the entire Saturn network, but maybe they will get a chunk of govt. help... I know they are asking for a US DOE loan.



> Canny and other officials from the company's subsidiary, Think North America, are in Ann Arbor this week meeting with representatives from the state of Michigan and seven other states to discuss options to bring electric vehicle manufacturing jobs to the U.S. The program includes a ride-and-drive event with the production level version of the TH!NK city electric car presently on sale in Europe.


http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/0...-manufacturing-sales-plans-hopes-to-sell-cit/


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## PBC///2.7 (Aug 14, 2008)

I have heard that HONDA is looking at Saturn too.....GM needs to sell them off like SAAB and HUMMER...they need to rethink the hole company...


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## Robsa (Jan 20, 2005)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Th!nk just announced they are planning to expand into the US market and will be building cars in the US.
> 
> Would an electric car with a 112 mile range and a 70mph top speed be something to sell at Saturn dealers?]


That would be something if Saturn signed up all the independent electric car manufacturers and sold them under one roof. Toss in a side business of turning Hybrids into Plug in Hybrids and they would be the ultimate green company.

Tata and Chery come to mind as outsiders who would love to get into the US market. It seems like I heard somewhere that Peugeot wants back in too.


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## Fulltone74 (Oct 19, 2005)

Robsa said:


> Tata and Chery come to mind as outsiders who would love to get into the US market. It seems like I heard somewhere that Peugeot wants back in too.


They have to pass the crash tests first. 
The government won't let cars that flimsy to be sold in the U.S.

And now the crash test results on the federal tests have to be displayed on the window sticker as well.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Fulltone74 said:


> They have to pass the crash tests first.


True for Tata and Cherry.

Most Peugeots score 5 out of 5 starts on the Euro NCAP safety test. The tiny 107 / Citroen C1 got 4 out of 5 stars. It wouldn't be too hard to get them to pass DOT. Might have to modify the front clip on some to get through the Federal bumper regulations.

Peugeot has a fast track to EPA approval. The 1.6L engines from the MINI Cooper and MCS are also used in the 207 and 308. It might be easy to drop the already Federalized Prince engine into a couple of Peugeot's vans and MPVs.

But would Americans buy these cars? Does PSA have to cash or credit needed to expand into the US? I think the answer to both questions is no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_engine


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## Fulltone74 (Oct 19, 2005)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> True for Tata and Cherry.
> 
> Most Peugeots score 5 out of 5 starts on the Euro NCAP safety test. The tiny 107 / Citroen C1 got 4 out of 5 stars. It wouldn't be too hard to get them to pass DOT. Might have to modify the front clip on some to get through the Federal bumper regulations.
> 
> ...


But it also has to pass SIDE crash tests in the U.S. 
The side crash test simulates a larger and taller SUV sized vehicle impact from the side, even if the car being tested is a compact.

The front impact tests only simulate hitting another vehicle head-on of the similar size and weight.

All else being equal, a longer hood equals a longer crumple zone. And that means a less severe deceleration and less risk of internal injuries to the driver.


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