# Team PTG in Grand AM GT 2004...



## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Mmmmmmmm... v8 m3s back at Daytona!

----

The following was extracted from the car number list for 2004 for the Rolex series of Grand American Road Racing on the Grand American website:

Grand American Rolex Series car number list - 2004

Car # Team, Contact Name Class Make/Chassis Builder Car Serial #
#21 Prototype Technology Grp, T Milner GT BMW M3 E46 PTG NR16 7/67-S 005

#22 Prototype Technology Grp, T Milner GT BMW M3 E46 PTG NR16 7/67-S 006


And from the December Autosport...
THE Prototype Technology Group BMWsquad looks set to move to the Grand-American Sportscar Series.

The BMWNorth America-backed team was a frontrunner this year in the SPEED GT World Challenge, which is aligned to the American Le Mans Series, but the Virginia squad is understood to be gearing up to run a full schedule in the Grand-Am series for the first time next season.

Boss Tom Milner has refused to reveal where PTG will be racing in 2004 ahead of any announcement from BMW North America.

“There are fouroptions forus next year: the ALMS, SPEED GT, Grand-Am ornothing. I cannot comment on what we will be doing except to stay that it is up to BMWto tell you,”said Milner. “All I can say is that there is lots of positive news coming out of Grand-Am right now.”

Part of the reason for the likely switch is the performance penalties handed out to the six-cylinder M3s by the SPEED GT organisers over the course of last season.

PTG would almost certainly enter Grand-Am’s GT class and run a pair ofV8-powered M3s similar to the car with which Jim Bell Motorsports was a frontrunner in the 2001 Daytona 24 Hours. Likely drivers include PTG regulars Hans Stuck, Boris Said and Bill Auberlen.


----------



## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

I think it makes sense, especially if the V8s are still not legal in ALMS.

From what I hear, there could be a lot of BMW teams in Grand Am Cup in 2004. (note Milner's comment about positive things coming up for Grand Am)

:bigpimp:


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

DannO said:


> Part of the reason for the likely switch is the performance penalties handed out to the six-cylinder M3s by the SPEED GT organisers over the course of last season.


I don't think that was entirely accurate.


----------



## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

elbert said:


> I don't think that was entirely accurate.


Just quoting. As someone else pointed out elsewhere Billy A was able to win the championship in TC class with 200lbs in the car with him. You'd think a BMW backed team could do the same.

Hey, I weigh 200. Maybe Billy would give me a ride in during of his races at the end of next season?


----------



## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Although I'm sure there are a lot of factors that drive what series a factory based team like PTG participates in (like maybe the need for more R&D on the V8 M3), I think Tom Milner definitely had issues for how much his team was R.E.W.A.R.D.ed (as opposed to rewarded  ) for their hard work.

I'd have to look around to find the interview for the exact quote, but it was something to the extent of the SCCA "not letting the BMWs show their excellence."


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

DannO, I know you were just quoting Grand Am. The problem wasn't the REWARDs program. SCCA Pro picked up a new technical director/chief steward (Shawn Passen) for World Challenge. Let's just say some rules that previously weren't enforced (but in the books) will be now. :eeps:


----------



## Seneca (Feb 13, 2003)

PTG's intends to race 6-cylinder M3's in Grand Am's GT class, not the V8.


----------



## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Seneca said:


> PTG's intends to race 6-cylinder M3's in Grand Am's GT class, not the V8.


Is that confirmed? Where did the info come from?
Not doubting, just curious and disappointed...


----------



## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

elbert said:


> DannO, I know you were just quoting Grand Am. The problem wasn't the REWARDs program. SCCA Pro picked up a new technical director/chief steward (Shawn Passen) for World Challenge. Let's just say some rules that previously weren't enforced (but in the books) will be now. :eeps:


You're going to give us a teaser like that without some details :spank:

Come on, what's the scoop ? 

Speaking of teasers and Grand Am Cup, DannO and I should be able to make an announcement soon :eeps:


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

If you followed the SWC GT throughout the year, you will see that as the PTG cars did well they got more than just the rewards weight. The SCCA added additional weight on top of the rewards and reduced the weight of the Porsche. All of this to compete with a twin turbo V8 Audi that was already overweight but has lots of horsepower. Tom Milner was quoted as saying that he felt that they were being penalized for having such a good group of drivers. When PTG brought in Bryce Miller to drive Jeff McMillin's old car, that was running without additional weight, and when he practiced and qualified well the SCCA had them load up the car with weight before the race. I don't believe that he had any time to run the car with the additional weight. Very frustrating for those running and paying for the team. Easy to see how Tom could be ready to go somewhere else.


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

scottn2retro said:


> You're going to give us a teaser like that without some details :spank:
> 
> Come on, what's the scoop ?


OK, OK, twist my arm :stickpoke There were several infractions by a few different teams. I don't know if this example applied to PTG or not, but the one specific example I heard was that those fancy Pi systems could enable traction control of sorts (which is a :nono: ) by retarding the engines.

But the high competitiveness of the M3 did arouse suspicion. With the crackdown, a few of teams were pissed.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

elbert said:


> But the high competitiveness of the M3 did arouse suspicion. With the crackdown, a few of teams were pissed.


They went 1-2-3-4 at Sears. A track where the E46 M3 has got to be perfect for. With Bill Auberlen and Hans Stuck and PTG, there's no one better. You are implying that they were cheating. Don't many of the teams use a Motec system (I think PTG uses Motec not Pi)?

With the crackdown, other teams were also pissed about the crackdown? Or were teams pissed at PTG?

There's nothing low tech about the Audi's either. I wonder if they had done as well as they did in the last two races, in the middle of the season, if they would have gotten more weight. I think they need about 200lbs, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

It would be a shame to see PTG/BMW leave SWC. I watch both series, but am more faithful to SWC. I love the starts and short sprint format. Grand-Am seems to get too spread out with laps seperating the 1-6 cars at times... and gets somewhat boring. And just when SWC was getting hot with more and more factory teams jumping on board.

Hmmm, wonder if PTG/BMW can be convinced to prepare a car for WRC. Perhaps a MINI? :thumbup:


----------



## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

Motec is engine management. Pi is data aquisition. Motec can do traction control. Pi can not. Oh, and Motec can do data aquisition too, but Pi cannot do engine management. Confused yet?  

Maybe some of the teams (PTG?) were using Motec traction control, I cannot say. I do know that PTG uses Motec engine management as it is the only solution that supports fly by wire and the dual continuous vanos setup of the s54 motor.

Why should we cry over audi's heavy car? It's not like awd doesn't help offset that benefit. Those cars took of like freakin' rockets at the start. Make your bed and lie in it, I say. Seems "not right" to change weight penalties during the season to even things out. Did BMW get to loose weight or add awd? Don't think so...

I hope the driver lineup stays the same. Bill, Hans, and Boris rule.


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

SteveT said:


> They went 1-2-3-4 at Sears. A track where the E46 M3 has got to be perfect for. With Bill Auberlen and Hans Stuck and PTG, there's no one better. You are implying that they were cheating. Don't many of the teams use a Motec system (I think PTG uses Motec not Pi)?
> 
> With the crackdown, other teams were also pissed about the crackdown? Or were teams pissed at PTG?
> 
> There's nothing low tech about the Audi's either. I wonder if they had done as well as they did in the last two races, in the middle of the season, if they would have gotten more weight. I think they need about 200lbs, but that's just my opinion.


Steve, get off it. I didn't imply PTG was cheating--if anything, I specifically stated otherwise. All I said was there was suspicion of PTG. What I did imply was there is a lot of suspicion over a lot of teams, Champion included. As DannO pointed out, it was the Motec that could be rigged up for traction control, not the Pi system (although I think the Pi's are being used to help catch cheaters, but that was my mistake confusing the two). I heard there were some other minor things, but the engine management was a major issue.

I think the Audis were fortunate in a way by not doing so well in the middle part of the season. I agree they would have gotten more weight if they had. Mumford in his Viper may also have been very competitive but we'll never know. 

A lot of teams were mad at the new technical director. It wasn't loopholes that were being taken advantage of--actual rules were being broken for quite some time, and teams were actually getting pissed at him for doing his job.


----------



## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

OBS3SSION said:


> It would be a shame to see PTG/BMW leave SWC. I watch both series, but am more faithful to SWC. I love the starts and short sprint format. Grand-Am seems to get too spread out with laps seperating the 1-6 cars at times... and gets somewhat boring. And just when SWC was getting hot with more and more factory teams jumping on board.
> 
> Hmmm, wonder if PTG/BMW can be convinced to prepare a car for WRC. Perhaps a MINI? :thumbup:


I agree, the SWC is a much more entertaining series to watch.


----------



## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

elbert said:


> I think the Audis were fortunate in a way by not doing so well in the middle part of the season. I agree they would have gotten more weight if they had.


There is clearly a benefit to this. Gotta wonder if there was any actual team strategy built around that. Probably not the case but it's a shame that the series is structured in such a way that you COULD create a strategy around sandbagging.


----------



## defcon1racing (Apr 11, 2002)

*press release dated today, 12/19/03*

*BMW TEAM PTG M3s TO RACE FOR 2004 ROLEX SPORTS CAR SERIES GT 
CHAMPIONSHIP 
Woodcliff Lake, NJ - December, 19, 2003 ... BMW Team PTG today 
announced its 
entry of two GT class BMW M3s in the 2004 Rolex Sports Car Series of 
the 
Grand American Road Racing Association. Racing for BMW of North 
America, 
LLC, BMW Team PTG is one of North America's premiere sports car racing 
teams 
and has raced the BMW M3 exclusively since 1995. Having delivered 
eleven 
championships in the past nine years, this coming season will mark the 
debut 
of Team PTG in the Rolex Series. Constructed and prepared in-house at 
PTG's 
Winchester, Va. headquarters, the first M3 is planned to run at the 
January 
3-5 test at Daytona International Speedway with a second M3 to be 
built.

"We are always looking for new challenges and to see where we can 
showcase 
the BMW M3," said Team PTG owner, Tom Milner. "PTG's roots are in 
endurance 
racing and we have seen our greatest success in the long distance 
races. 
Some of the tracks we will see next season will be familiar and a few 
will 
be new to us, but we look forward to getting back to what BMW Team PTG 
does 
best." From its trademark front kidney grilles to the slight 
rear-to-front 
raked stance that identifies a well-balanced rear wheel drive chassis, 
the 
Team PTG M3s will still rely on the very fine road car that is the BMW 
M3. 
By the time of the 42nd running of the Rolex 24 at Daytona at the end 
of 
January every part will have been tested and optimized to enhance the 
M3s 
performance for the rigors of endurance racing.

First proven in sprint racing competition last year, the Team PTG M3s 
will 
be powered by BMW's newest generation 3.2-liter inline, six-cylinder 
S54 
power plant. The same engine as in the production M3, the Team 
PTG-modified 
version will pump out some 420 horsepower - almost 100 more than the 
333 
horsepower in the road car. A carbon-fiber body panel and aerodynamic 
package will reduce the M3's weight to 2600 pounds and enhance the M3's 
handling and braking qualities. 
Long time BMW Team PTG drivers Bill Auberlen and Boris Said will return 
to 
anchor the effort. Team PTG member Justin Marks will also return and be 
joined by Joey Hand. Hand, the 2001 Toyota Formula Atlantic Rookie of 
the 
Year, tested with PTG and was a member of Team PTG's 12 Hours of 
Sebring 
effort that same year.

"Endurance racing is a great test of both man and machine...", said 
Hernando 
Carvajal, BMW of North America, LLC, M Brand and Motorsport Manager. 
"and 
the Rolex Series is the highest mountain we can climb when you look at 
the 
distances of the 12 scheduled races in 2004." The Rolex Series' 
opening 
race is its most famous and toughest and the BMW Team PTG M3s have a 
very 
good record at the Rolex 24 at Daytona, having won the endurance 
classic 
twice in five attempts.

The Team PTG BMW M3 effort had its very first taste of competition at 
the 
1995 Rolex 24 at Daytona. Dieter Quester qualified on the class pole, 
but 
was forced to retire from the race. In 1996, David Donohue claimed the 
M3's 
second consecutive class pole and qualified next to teammate Peter 
Halsmer 
for an all M3 GTS-2 front row. Donohue, Javier Quiros, John Paul Jr. 
and 
Halsmer ultimately finished third in class and ninth overall. In its 
finest 
two years of competition, during which the team won a total of 24 
races, BMW 
Team PTG won the GTS-3 class in 1997 and the GT3 class in 1998. Both 
Auberlen and Said were part of the winning driving team in those years. 
The 
last year that BMW Team PTG participated in the Rolex 24 at Daytona was 
1999.

Prior to the BMW Team PTG effort, BMW had a GTO class victory in 1981 
with 
an M1 driven by Hans Stuck, Walter Brun and Rudi Walch. BMW's sole 
overall 
Rolex 24 victory came in 1976 with the CSL of Brian Redman and Peter 
Gregg. 
BMW Team PTG will start the season at the Rolex 24 test days at the 
Daytona 
International Speedway on January 3-5. Practice for the 
twice-around-the-clock classic will begin on January 29, 2004. 
*

Seems to answer some questions and open more...


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> I agree, the SWC is a much more entertaining series to watch.


I tend to agree with you. If G&W brings in a Doran/BMW DP with a couple of other BMW powered cars and the existing DP's from last year, and the PTG team raises the bar a bit in GT it could get more interesting.

elbert,

As far as cheating goes, you were waving your finger at somebody and you were talking about suspicions wrt PTG success. Originally you didn't spread the concern out among all the teams. I'll let you off the hook.

The Vipers are a strange point. In a series like the SWC, with rewards weight, it's kind of unfair for a car like that to enter half way though the year and upset the status quo that had developed.

I believe that Tom Milner felt that PTG was actually being penalized for having a top lineup of drivers, due to their success. Rewards weight is one thing, but the SCCA was adjusting the base weights in mid-year. I'd have to say at that point that the car was being targeted by the sanctioning organization. Can't call that rewards weight.


----------



## DannO (Apr 25, 2002)

A few months ago, shortly after Tom Milner advertised the WC cars for sale on the SCCA Pro Racing message board, he said:

"We have always sold our cars at the end of the season , but to say that I am overly impressed with the professionalism of the SCCA is an overstatement , after all that has happend to PTG this season . To conclude that we are not running in WCGT is false . We are looking at all of our options at this time and there are many . For your information : These cars are , with a few mods. legal to run in SGS in Grand Am's Rolex Series in 2004."

Read that last sentance again. I think it's what they call FORESHADOWING. How did I not see this coming? :dunno:


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I remember the message. Can't claim any better insight into what was coming. It did sound like PTG wasn't coming back to the SWC though. I would be more disappointed though if they sat out again. Grand Am will be interesting. I thought the Advan car at the PLM was testing the waters some against the GT3's. The GrandAm needs to raise the number of cars in the field and the quality. It may be happening, since the number of DP's is going up again.

Tom took a lot of heat in that thread for being a well funded manufacturer backed team complaining about what appeared to an arbitrary application of the rules. The SCCA calls it Professional Racing and as such the size of the budget shouldn't be as important. The factories make the racing better. Some of the guys in the series will obviously not have as much money, but they need to remember what series they are in. Cadillac appears to be coming into SWC next year with a bigger budget than Champion and PTG, so we will see how the SCCA handles that.


----------



## OBS3SSION (Oct 1, 2002)

Well, the worst part about BMW/PTG entering Rolex is that we'll never see them.  Seems like 90% of the coverage is on the DP's. And with more DP's this year, perhaps we'll see GT only 3-5% :thumbdwn:


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

SteveT said:


> As far as cheating goes, you were waving your finger at somebody and you were talking about suspicions wrt PTG success. Originally you didn't spread the concern out among all the teams. I'll let you off the hook.


Oh, I was finger waggling at traction control use, not at PTG.


----------



## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

SteveT said:


> The Vipers are a strange point. In a series like the SWC, with rewards weight, it's kind of unfair for a car like that to enter half way though the year and upset the status quo that had developed.
> 
> I believe that Tom Milner felt that PTG was actually being penalized for having a top lineup of drivers, due to their success. Rewards weight is one thing, but the SCCA was adjusting the base weights in mid-year. I'd have to say at that point that the car was being targeted by the sanctioning organization. Can't call that rewards weight.


I wish the rewards weights were adjusted after each race. Only doing it once (or is it twice) each season is opening a pretty big loophole that the Viper could have really taken an unfair advantage. For gawds sake, there's enough time between each race to make the changes.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

elbert said:


> Oh, I was finger waggling at traction control use, not at PTG.


There was a certain amount of complaining about the factory teams, but it is Pro-Racing after all. Traction contol is a lot for a factory supported team like Champion or PTG to risk. They'd be the two likely candidates. Some guys may be there over their head financially (maybe a lot). It's a severe claim.


----------



## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

elbert said:


> I wish the rewards weights were adjusted after each race. Only doing it once (or is it twice) each season is opening a pretty big loophole that the Viper could have really taken an unfair advantage. For gawds sake, there's enough time between each race to make the changes.


Rewards weight is adjusted after each event up or down. Check out the link to the rules.

SWC Rules

The biggest problem I had was that they were adjusting the "base weight" on the M3 (and others too) arbitrarily to slow them down even more. I think this was Tom's frustration also. Don't series like the European Touring Car Championship have a maximum rewards weight? At least then you can top out and not go further.


----------

