# Strange problem with new 535D



## BB_cuda (Nov 8, 2011)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> I just realized where you live. I absolutely hate driving under 65 but along your stretch of road there used to be a lot of coppers. On side note do you ever think the name of that lake of yours as the ultimate oxymoron?


HAHA. Yes, Clear Lake is an oxymoron for sure. The lake was not originally connected to Galveston Bay. It has a shell bottom and it was very clear. Then, I'm told boat people wanted to get the channel cut through so you could sail/motor around the lake and then go out into Galveston Bay. The gulf and bay are very muddy looking water at the upper Texas coast. Lower texas coast down at Padre Island is back to cleaner bluer water. Yes, us locals call it Mud Lake.

The Galveston County cops are always looking for the spring breakers, beach going crowd blasting down the freeway to fill their tax coffers. I just set the cruise and lettem' scream by and pay those bills. In town on Houston freeways, it is a whole different story. I go 75 depending on traffic. I have been told the space gray metallic helps to blend into the crowd who also generally goes 75.

Back to topic: CarguySF, what did dealer say?


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

My wife just returned from BMW of San Francisco. They hooked the car up to the computer and after 30 minutes informed her that the car was operating normally. The only thing they added was that the typical break-in period was 5,000 miles or 3 months (the car currently has 1,200 miles on the odometer).

I then called BMW Customer Service and they reiterated that the car was operating within specifications if the dealer said so. There is something wrong when an automobile manufacturer can get away with advertising 26MPG city and actual is more like 14-16 (a 40% difference). Shocking to say the least.


----------



## bimmerup-sonny (May 29, 2013)

CarGuySF said:


> My wife just returned from BMW of San Francisco. They hooked the car up to the computer and after 30 minutes informed her that the car was operating normally. The only thing they added was that the typical break-in period was 5,000 miles or 3 months (the car currently has 1,200 miles on the odometer).
> 
> I then called BMW Customer Service and they reiterated that the car was operating within specifications if the dealer said so. There is something wrong when an automobile manufacturer can get away with advertising 26MPG city and actual is more like 14-16 (a 40% difference). Shocking to say the least.


I've read some where that you do get better mileage after the 5000 mile break in period,
but whether it is that substantial is another story.

I bought my '11 335d when it had 27K miles, and with 33K miles now, I've been monitoring
my mpg and for every tank I consistently get 33 mpg, avg 35 mph. My commute is 50% canyon road (up and down hills) and 50% freeway speed of 65 - 70 mph

Sonny


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

I get 32-36 freeway depending on how fast I'm driving.


----------



## bimmerup-sonny (May 29, 2013)

CarGuySF said:


> I get 32-36 freeway depending on how fast I'm driving.


So your freeway MPG is good... for 535d which is heavier then 335d

I recall I reset the computer info for one freeway only trip,
and I got about 40 mpg with 65 mph.

Sonny


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

The MB GL350 Bluetec is rated at 19MPG city and in real world driving probably matches my 14-16 MPG 535D. The latter weighs 5835 lbs vs the former at 3825 lbs. This just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

CarGuySF said:


> This is a cross-post from the F10 forum as nobody could answer the question there. I thought a diesel specialist forum might offer better answers...
> 
> I've had my car a little over a month and have driven a little over 1,100 miles. I used to get about 25MPG in the city but now the computer is averaging about 14MPG and I've gone through about half a tank of diesel just over a week. I estimate that I've driven about 150 miles over that time in purely city driving. Driving style hasn't changed; mostly using either Comfort or Eco Pro.
> 
> I've tried resetting the MPG calculation on the car's computer a number of times but this hasn't solved the problem. I have an appointment to bring the car in to BMW of San Francisco next Tuesday. Any thoughts on what this might be?


What color is your car?


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

Carbon black



Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

CarGuySF-
Have you actually performed a pencil & paper of the mpg? I've heard from others on this board that the BMW fuel economy calculations are pessimistic. Most other car manufacturers have overly optimisitc FE calculations.


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

How would I do that? When I filled up the car a few days ago I made a note of the actual mileage on the odometer, 1,322.1.


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

CarGuySF said:


> How would I do that? When I filled up the car a few days ago I made a note of the actual mileage on the odometer, 1,322.1.


Basically log miles driven to empty divided by gallons you pump to refill. We're all assuming that you're not relying on the MPG indicator because it displays only an average.

You really need to run more than one tank to get an idea.


----------



## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

fill out your tank, put the odometer in zero, then drive the car until you refill it again, then divide mpg driven by gallons and it will give the actual MPGs!!
Example you drove 426 miles on dodometer and you filled it up with 13.5 gallons = 31.5 mpg


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

Got it. This is very helpful. Will do this and report back.



Axel61 said:


> fill out your tank, put the odometer in zero, then drive the car until you refill it again, then divide mpg driven by gallons and it will give the actual MPGs!!
> Example you drove 426 miles on dodometer and you filled it up with 13.5 gallons = 31.5 mpg


----------



## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

Lets keep this on topic.

Tim


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

nevermind


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

did I miss someone getting ragged on for not knowing how to calculate miles per gallon?


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

Yup and the administrator consequently deleted a few posts as a result.



Hoooper said:


> did I miss someone getting ragged on for not knowing how to calculate miles per gallon?


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

boo


----------



## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

CarGuySF said:


> The MB GL350 Bluetec is rated at 19MPG city and in real world driving probably matches my 14-16 MPG 535D. The latter weighs 5835 lbs vs the former at 3825 lbs. This just doesn't make sense to me.


Carguy,

I have a 335D (daily commuter) and a new GL350. I'm averaging about 19-20MPG in the GL350 with mixed driving. City is more like 15-16mpg in the GL. On the Highway I get closs to 26MPG at about 65MPH, 25 at about 70-75MPH.

My 335D on the other hand is averaging 29.4MPG (4 years running) so I have a solid database to fall back on. In city the 335D will drop like a rock, perhaps low 20's.

I suspect your "city" driving is really red light to red light and bumper to bumper. This is what is driving your MPG to be so low.

You need to get out on the road, do a road trip, and see if you really have a problem of if it is all in your head.

A diesel car is not great for city driving. A Hybrid or all-electric may be better.


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Flyingman said:


> I suspect your "city" driving is really red light to red light and bumper to bumper. This is what is driving your MPG to be so low.


99% of drivers in san francisco drive like the first person to the next red light gets $1000, and the next red light is almost always just one block away, so if carguy is even somewhat a "normal" sf driver then its likely his city MPG wouldnt reflect the EPA ratings.


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

Hoooper said:


> 99% of drivers in san francisco drive like the first person to the next red light gets $1000, and the next red light is almost always just one block away, so if carguy is even somewhat a "normal" sf driver then its likely his city MPG wouldnt reflect the EPA ratings.


$2,000 if it is uphill to the next stop light, and we all know there are no hills in SF.:dunno:


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

Not everyone in SF drives like they are in a Nascar race. I have 2 small kids in my car and their safety is my primary concern, not being first to the next traffic light. The MPG calculations are usually in either comfort or Eco pro modes. 

If I were looking for a fast car I would have purchased an M5 or 550i. 



Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


----------



## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

CarGuySF said:


> Not everyone in SF drives like they are in a Nascar race. I have 2 small kids in my car and their safety is my primary concern, not being first to the next traffic light. The MPG calculations are usually in either comfort or Eco pro modes.
> 
> If I were looking for a fast car I would have purchased an M5 or 550i.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


We have a diverse demographic in this forum.


----------



## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

OP, have you resolved your MPG issue yet?


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

No. BMW suggests that I arrange a field team tech to come out and inspect the car at the BMW dealer in SF.



GreekboyD said:


> OP, have you resolved your MPG issue yet?


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

Calculated actual MPG today after fill up (albeit only quarter if a tank). 84 miles used up 5.988 gallons or 14.02 miles per gallon. This can't be right. A 535D getting only 14 miles per gallon in SF city driving in Comfort or Eco Pro driving?




Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


----------



## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

Have you done any experiments to see what you get on the interstate, like a weekend jaunt at 65 down to the valley and back on 580? Your mileage sounds like that of an M5. 


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

No I haven't had the opportunity yet to test the car of late on the interstate.

On a completely unrelated but equally frustrating note... today I had complete failure of the Heating/Cooling and music center console. No power at all to the unit. It was working in the morning when I drove to take my kids to the SF Zoo. Returned to the car later in the afternoon and no response at all; drove home with all of the windows wide open (mid-October is peak Summer in San Francisco for all of about 2 weeks). I was able to control the audio system from the HUD but that's it.

Very frustrating experience so far with this 535D to say the least. I'll call the dealer again in the morning.


----------



## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

CarGuySF said:


> Calculated actual MPG today after fill up (albeit only quarter if a tank). 84 miles used up 5.988 gallons or 14.02 miles per gallon. This can't be right. A 535D getting only 14 miles per gallon in SF city driving in Comfort or Eco Pro driving?
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


These engines need to run free. Fill it up, write the mileage on the receipt, put it in the center console, go to Stanford shopping center, shop a bit, then return to the same gas pump. Fill it up again and write the mileage on the second receipt.

Dont call BMW's A-Team in unless you know what the car does in every situation. Like the other poster said, you are probably better off going Tesla in the city.


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

It could just be your terrain. Are you going up and down the hills everyday? 

Generally the diesels get better MPG's than what is advertised and you haven't told us that the car is running poorly. 

Do one tank of fuel with start/stop off and one with it active. 

I wonder if the start/stop feature is keeping you in perpetual DPF regeneration.


----------



## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

Faulk me that bad mileage


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

There are obviously hills in San Francisco but much of the city is flat. I would say that a typical drive would be 20% hills and 80% flat.

BMW of SF has told me that the car is running properly based upon hooking it up to the computer in the dealership.

The auto start/stop is enabled. Why would BMW enable such a feature if it would keep DPF from completing? Doesn't make sense to me.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the center console failed yesterday. Lost power to AC and entertainment system. NAV still works. On top of that the SOS button cover has fallen off! (must be all of those calls to BMW from the car!). The car is going back to BMW of SF this morning for service.



BMWTurboDzl said:


> It could just be your terrain. Are you going up and down the hills everyday?
> 
> Generally the diesels get better MPG's than what is advertised and you haven't told us that the car is running poorly.
> 
> ...


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

CarGuySF said:


> There are obviously hills in San Francisco but much of the city is flat. I would say that a typical drive would be 20% hills and 80% flat.
> 
> BMW of SF has told me that the car is running properly based upon hooking it up to the computer in the dealership.
> 
> ...


True but traffic is bad. No doubt about it. BMW can't consider every possible city driving scenario. Just try driving around on a tank of fuel with it disabled.


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

I am only comparing my driving experience to my previous car, a 2011 Toyota Sienna XLE. A car that weighs 4,500 lbs vs 4,100 lbs for the BMW. I would regularly get 18-19 MPG with the Sienna in SF city driving. Am I being unrealistic to expect a new diesel BMW that weighs slightly less to get better fuel economy in city driving?



BMWTurboDzl said:


> True but traffic is bad. No doubt about it. BMW can't consider every possible city driving scenario. Just try driving around on a tank of fuel with it disabled.


----------



## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

CarGuySF said:


> ... Am I being unrealistic to expect a new diesel BMW that weighs slightly less to get better fuel economy in city driving?


Not at all. That's why we're thinking there must be some measurement error- especially since you report that the car runs well and acheives expected mpg on the highway.


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

obviously the start/stop will stop the regen from completing IF it starts/stops during a regen because it would be impossible for the car to keep the DPF at temperature with the engine off. I would think that the car would disable start/stop during regen for this reason. Additionally, I think it would be practically impossible anyway for a regen to complete while driving in SF, there just isnt enough prolonged driving at speed to complete a 10 minute regen. Have you taken the car out of the city since your bad mileage started? If its stuck in regen it will fubar your mileage and probably will be stuck that way until you take it for a drive.


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

I have not. That is my next plan of action once I get it back from the dealer. You would think that it would be possible to determine if the car is in fact in the process of DPF regeneration. Perhaps a message on the dashboard or on the diagnostics menu of iDrive.



Hoooper said:


> obviously the start/stop will stop the regen from completing IF it starts/stops during a regen because it would be impossible for the car to keep the DPF at temperature with the engine off. I would think that the car would disable start/stop during regen for this reason. Additionally, I think it would be practically impossible anyway for a regen to complete while driving in SF, there just isnt enough prolonged driving at speed to complete a 10 minute regen. Have you taken the car out of the city since your bad mileage started? If its stuck in regen it will fubar your mileage and probably will be stuck that way until you take it for a drive.


----------



## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

CarGuySF said:


> I have not. That is my next plan of action once I get it back from the dealer. You would think that it would be possible to determine if the car is in fact in the process of DPF regeneration. Perhaps a message on the dashboard or on the diagnostics menu of iDrive.


Thank god it's not because we'd be inundated with "does your regeneration take this long?" posts. Lol.


----------



## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

CarGuySF said:


> I have not. That is my next plan of action once I get it back from the dealer. You would think that it would be possible to determine if the car is in fact in the process of DPF regeneration. Perhaps a message on the dashboard or on the diagnostics menu of iDrive.


you can tell once you get used to the car, but probably not obvious for a new owner. Personally, I can feel a difference in the car even while using cruise control when it goes in to regen. That took me about 10k miles to realize though. There are some indicators but you might not see them and also they could be different in the newer models. For the 335d, some indicators are bad mileage on the insta-mileage meter (probably only obvious when on the highway, mine indicates around 40-50 mpg when cruising highway but when regen happens it will show low 30s), lots of heat you can feel coming out from under the hood, fan continuing to run after the car is turned off, funky caramel sort of smell all around the car, way more audible exhaust cool down once the engine is shut down if the regen was in the process or just finished.


----------



## CarGuySF (Aug 29, 2013)

Okay... I now have definitive answers. I spoke with BMW Customer Service, BMW of SF, neither were helpful about this low MPG problem at all. The right answer came from BMWTurboDzl.

I finally had the chance to take the kids on a 50 mile drive to a pumpkin patch near Sonoma. During the drive my MPG gradually improved (in Eco Pro mode, driving an average of 55-65MPH) until it finally hit 45.2 MPG (substantially higher than the stated 38 MPG freeway). I'd say the average overall was 40 MPG on the freeway.

After returning to SF I'm now consistently getting a minimum of 20 MPG and slightly more than 25 MPG once the car has warmed up and I'm in a flat part of the city (even with traffic lights etc).

The correct answer I believe was the low gas mileage of about 15-16MPG in the city was attributable to DPF regeneration. I honestly believe the car should provide feedback to the driver when this is happening. Because most of my driving in the city is quick trips of under 5 miles at relatively low speeds (under 25 MPH), the car never had the chance to complete DPF regen and was caught in a loop. The road trip cleared the problem.

Thanks again everyone. 20-25 MPG city and 40-45 MPG freeway is pretty good in my book.



BMWTurboDzl said:


> DPF regeneration, transition to winter diesel, just really bad batch of traffic. The OP should not rely on the instant MPG. Engine is new as well.


----------

