# Second Payment Issue - Frustrated



## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

the J-Man said:


> I know of a great way BMW can fix the second payment issue. Don't pay the second payment for us, and don't add the ED money factor markup on leases.


To many don't realize the money factor mark up and think its nice of BMW to make the second payment.
cheers
vern


----------



## medolai (Jun 12, 2006)

*2nd lease payment on ED*

Just came back from ED today, and found a statement from BMWFS that my 2nd month lease is due on October 23rd. Obviously, it wasn't taken care automatically, and just emailed Philippe Kahn, my ED advisor regarding this issue. Apparently, this glitch or whatever with their system is not fixed, and everyone on this board considering a ED lease should be aware and clarify before signing the lease document. The experience of doing european delivery and visiting Welt was wonderful, but now I have to deal with this mess as soon as back.


----------



## david335xi (Apr 17, 2010)

yep... irritating, but a simple call to BMWFS sorted it out for me and the credit was posted. Seems like it requires manual intervention.


----------



## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Gee there must be something wrong with leasing ,you all seem to have the same problem. I have never had this problem after my first payment I have never been contacted again. Maybe it is because I do the responsible thing and PAY for the car in one check up front and own it not rent it. It does hurt to write the check but saves a great deal of grief later.  Just my Dave Ramsey training coming out.


----------



## tschryver (Mar 11, 2003)

Truly you are a better human being than the rest of us poor schleps who can't write $60,000 checks. Thanks so much for enlightening us with your wisdom! You remind me of some of the earliest investing advice I ever got - a gentleman said to me, "you want to be rich, kid? let me tell you what to do. it's about owning stocks. I got a ticker symbol - write it down. BRK.A. get yourself 100 shares of BRK.A, and I guarantee, you'll be rich."



M FUNF said:


> Gee there must be something wrong with leasing ,you all seem to have the same problem. I have never had this problem after my first payment I have never been contacted again. Maybe it is because I do the responsible thing and PAY for the car in one check up front and own it not rent it. It does hurt to write the check but saves a great deal of grief later.  Just my Dave Ramsey training coming out.


----------



## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

M FUNF said:


> Gee there must be something wrong with leasing ,you all seem to have the same problem. I have never had this problem after my first payment I have never been contacted again. Maybe it is because I do the responsible thing and PAY for the car in one check up front and own it not rent it. It does hurt to write the check but saves a great deal of grief later.  Just my Dave Ramsey training coming out.


I also had to call BMWFS to straighten this out.

I paid cash for all my previous cars, and this is the first one leased. Now that I have experience with leasing, I can tell you, for my situation (i.e. buy new cars every 2-3 years) and based on the current financial numbers (MF, Residuals), I will most likely come out ahead at the end of the lease by a significant amount.

The financially responsible thing to do is for everyone to do his/her homework and compare the cost of "ownership" (cash vs. traditional financing vs. lease).


----------



## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

enigma said:


> I also had to call BMWFS to straighten this out.
> 
> I paid cash for all my previous cars, and this is the first one leased. Now that I have experience with leasing, I can tell you, for my situation (i.e. buy new cars every 2-3 years) and based on the current financial numbers (MF, Residuals), I will most likely come out ahead at the end of the lease by a significant amount.
> .


+1 Always did the same thing until this time. Another big factor is if you have an accident on a lease car you don't have to worry about it going to Carfax and loosing money on the trade in, diminished value.
cheers
vern


----------



## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

tschryver said:


> Truly you are a better human being than the rest of us poor schleps who can't write $60,000 checks. Thanks so much for enlightening us with your wisdom! You remind me of some of the earliest investing advice I ever got - a gentleman said to me, "you want to be rich, kid? let me tell you what to do. it's about owning stocks. I got a ticker symbol - write it down. BRK.A. get yourself 100 shares of BRK.A, and I guarantee, you'll be rich."


Oddly enough I have a friend who was agahst that his sister bought 1K shares of that stock at $25K per share. His quote was "what is she thinking?" I guess we know now.  Closed last night just over $125K.


----------



## cvb (May 10, 2006)

This is happening to me too. I called and they didnt know what I was talking about (that BMW made the second payment)...eventually the person talked to their supervisor and said they would fix it.

Now 2 weeks later Im on hold again, becuase they didnt fix it and say my payment is late.

This will get cleared up, but this is terrible customer service.


----------



## TheCount1 (Jun 1, 2007)

cvb said:


> This is happening to me too. I called and they didnt know what I was talking about (that BMW made the second payment)...eventually the person talked to their supervisor and said they would fix it.
> 
> Now 2 weeks later Im on hold again, becuase they didnt fix it and say my payment is late.
> 
> This will get cleared up, but this is terrible customer service.


My car was still in Bremerhaven when I got the bill. I called my CA who got it taken care of and a few days before the duie date it showed as paid in my BMW Owner's Circle account online.

Anyone else haveing trouble with this issue, call your CA>


----------



## 1MORLAP (Sep 7, 2010)

Same here, took two calls and it got resolved. Although the nice lady said it would be resolved after the first call. BMW FS called my home and e-mailed me because of a missed payment. Anyway, seems that this is a very manual process... just be patient, do not pay 2nd month. Not a hug deal, but yous they should fix. On another hand I think they should just kill the program. 2nd payment or lower all payments is same for me...


----------



## jsf1993 (May 27, 2007)

I did not run into this problem with my recent ED. I alerted my CA to the issue ahead of time and he made sure it didn't come up somehow.

Thanks, Henry!


----------



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

1MORLAP said:


> On another hand I think they should just kill the program. 2nd payment or lower all payments is same for me...


There's a small subset of folks (perhaps the membership is just 1 - me) who likes this. Those who change cars often via lease transfer.

If you transfer your lease within 1-2 years say, that's 1 less payment you would have made. In effect, the person who is picking up the lease is sharing some of the burden. Another thing to do in this scenario is to roll in the acquisition, document, registration and other fees into the lease for that same reason.


----------



## TheCount1 (Jun 1, 2007)

chrischeung said:


> There's a small subset of folks (perhaps the membership is just 1 - me) who likes this. Those who change cars often via lease transfer.
> 
> If you transfer your lease within 1-2 years say, that's 1 less payment you would have made. In effect, the person who is picking up the lease is sharing some of the burden. Another thing to do in this scenario is to roll in the acquisition, document, registration and other fees into the lease for that same reason.


So if you do an ED and transfer the lease do you ask for a payment up front from the new lessee? They are getting the benefit of your ED price which in my case is a savings of about $100 per month.

I've considered transfering the lease at some point as I'm not sure how long I want to keep a convertible.


----------



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I've done this 3 times.

You can ask for anything you want - and they can counter with whatever they like. In my experience, those that assume a lease would prefer a higher monthly payment than a lower one with a downpayment from them. This is why I roll in the fees - to increase the monthly payments, instead of asking for a higher downpayment, even though I'm paying tax and interest on those items additionally in some cases. You can generally forget about recouping any travel related costs - unless you're doing an in and out trip, and even then the mathematics are fuzzy accounting for opportunity costs, waiting time etc.

The jury is out on MSDs. I've always found someone to pay me the MSDs, but it is a sticking point with a lot of folks - fronting/risking that amount of cash, in their eyes. But if you don't do MSDs, you'll also be paying more per month. I still think MSDs are the way to go if you have good cash flow.

Basically you need to price your lease competitively against a new lease to see it get assumed. See what a new car at $500 over invoice would go for (plus any fees), and discount from there (say $2000 for 36 months). You may end up requesting a downpayment, just offering the transfer at face value, or offering an incentive. A convertible is also more of a niche vehicle, so it will also be harder to find someone to assume the lease. But I just did, and I had some additional interest, so it is definitely possible.

You'll also deal with a lot of folks wanting the car for next to nothing (meaning - they'll take the car, no downpayment, want you to pay the transfer fees, and they'll keep your MSDs - you get the feeling that if they heard a dog bark over the phone, they'd want that too) - and they think they're helping you out. The good thing is that once you find someone who will take the lease for what you want, they do recognize it as a deal, and they are usually very fair and pleasant to deal with. I always find the experience interesting rather than tiring. Just remember - in many cases, you'll be trying to sell your lease after ordering a new car and committing to ED travel airfare, hotels etc., and the new owner will want to take the car ASAP (in my case, I'll be BMW less for 3 months). Can you accept a worst case financial and practical scenario? Can your wife/partner?

Finally, if this needing to call BMWFS to fix the second payment bugs you - then lease transfers and multiple EDs aren't for you.


----------



## TheCount1 (Jun 1, 2007)

chrischeung said:


> You'll also deal with a lot of folks wanting the car for next to nothing (meaning - they'll take the car, no downpayment, want you to pay the transfer fees, and they'll keep your MSDs - you get the feeling that if they heard a dog bark over the phone, they'd want that too) - and they think they're helping you out. The good thing is that once you find someone who will take the lease for what you want, they do recognize it as a deal, and they are usually very fair and pleasant to deal with. I always find the experience interesting rather than tiring. Just remember - in many cases, you'll be trying to sell your lease after ordering a new car and committing to ED travel airfare, hotels etc., and the new owner will want to take the car ASAP (in my case, I'll be BMW less for 3 months). Can you accept a worst case financial and practical scenario? Can your wife/partner?
> 
> Finally, if this needing to call BMWFS to fix the second payment bugs you - then lease transfers and multiple EDs aren't for you.


Thanks for the insights. I'd find the negotiating interesting rather than trying. (Ask my CA) The demand for a convertible is probably seasonal too, so the best time to get out of it would be the time of year when I would want to use it. And I will keep the car at least through a summer and fall, so it may not be until the spring of 2012 that I try to get out of it. But because of where we live and work we can live with only one car for months.

And I'm not the guy who frets over the second payment -- I got out in front of the issue by calling my CA as soon as I got the bill.


----------



## beatmstrj (Jan 10, 2008)

I had the same problem here. First ED 2 years ago went smooth and 2nd payment automatically credited. But this time around took 2 phone calls to sort out. Seriously, how many of us have to make a phone call before its a "problem"?


----------



## medolai (Jun 12, 2006)

beatmstrj said:


> I had the same problem here. First ED 2 years ago went smooth and 2nd payment automatically credited. But this time around took 2 phone calls to sort out. Seriously, how many of us have to make a phone call before its a "problem"?


I called twice to solve the issues regarding second payment, a few weeks apart. Called BMWFS directly.


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

And it happened yet again, I've received email from BMW FS that my lease payment is late. The system BMW FS uses must suck if they can't automatically credit *ALL *2nd lease payemnts on ED leases. After all, it's not free, we pay .0003 added to the MF, and why do we need to make a phone call to remind them? Helloo??


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

chrischeung said:


> I've done this 3 times.
> 
> You can ask for anything you want - and they can counter with whatever they like. In my experience, those that assume a lease would prefer a higher monthly payment than a lower one with a downpayment from them. This is why I roll in the fees - to increase the monthly payments, instead of asking for a higher downpayment, even though I'm paying tax and interest on those items additionally in some cases. You can generally forget about recouping any travel related costs - unless you're doing an in and out trip, and even then the mathematics are fuzzy accounting for opportunity costs, waiting time etc.
> 
> ...


Interesting..given that you transferring an ED lease, are you generally able to transfter it to someone without offering any additional discounts? I'm thinking you should because it usually works out to about $100 less than regular US delivery lease would've. I"m thinking of potentially doing that eventually w/ my upcoming Ed car, and was debating rolling in all the acq and reg fees for the same reason. psychologically, people don't like down payments and I was aso a bit worried about how MSDs would be viewed (glad that you've been able to get someone to take those over)


----------

