# Nationwide insurance just excluded driver's schools



## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Additions to the policy include...

"Coverage Exclusions...

12. To a motor vehicle, while being used in any prearranged or organized racing, speed, demolition, stunting activity, competitive event, or driver's education course conducted on a racetrack; or in practice or preparation for such event or course."

Of course they add this to my policy three weeks before the only driver's school I do each year.



The best alternative I've seen to switching carriers is supplemental coverage (as suggested by Pinecone in a previous thread)... http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_faq.htm

Please let me know if you have a a better suggestion.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Guess Nationwide is not on your side...

In all seriousness, while that may indeed stink, I can't say I blame them.

My theory is this: if you're not prepared from a financial or logistical (getting home) reason to write off your tracked car at a track event, you shouldn't be tracking it. 

I realize that may not be helpful, but I also think that policies such as Nationwide's will quickly become the norm -- not the exception -- and we should prepare for it.

My 0.02...


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Ouch. Fortunately, while State Farm excludes damage resulting from nuclear detonation, fallout or any other sort of contamination, they haven't excluded driver's schools.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

I just sent an e-mail to the driver's school chairman in my local chapter to ask his advice. He day job is running an insurance agency, so maybe he can switch me to a policy that would cover schools (and may even save me money over what I'm paying now). If I can't get coverage, I just checked, and I have four more days to cancel the school and pay just a $25 cancellation fee.

In the past, Nationwide did not have a specific exclusion for driver's schools and I was even sort of comfortable just figuring I'd pay for whatever damage I got even if they didn't cover it (which was unlikely, due to the wording of the old policy). With us just signing an agreement of sale on a new house, I'm not sure I want to risk a $40k loss anymore. Also, paying an extra $500 for an annual supplemental insurance policy would make this a pretty darn expensive weekend (an annual policy would only make sense if I were going to a couple events this year...hmmmm...).

If I can't get better everyday coverage, I may have to resort to autocross to get my kicks for a little while. A track car is sounding better right about now, too. I always figured I'd get a track car eventually, but I don't see it happening for another five years or so.

Oh well, if it doesn't work out, at least I had a chance to drive my new 330 on the track for three days last year.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Look into Chubbs, if that's not too expensive. I think I read somewhere that for CERTAIN they do not exclude HPDSes from their coverage.


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## ___lk___ (Dec 21, 2001)

PhilH said:


> Please let me know if you have a a better suggestion.


buy an old miata that u can afford to wreck. u'll have more fun too.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

ouch...that really bites. Let's hope it doesn't become a trend. I was actually hoping that the reason that companies had not moved to exclude DE was that there was some sort of State approval or regulation prohibiting that type of exclusion. Doesn't sound like there is. EDIT: Oops, just noticed you're not in same State as me...nevermind.

State Farm not only excluded nuclear fallout, but also mold! Are people making claims for mold in their cars? lol.

I also hear Wawanessa is a good company.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> I also hear Wawanessa is a good company.


And they're cheap too... :thumbup:


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

___lk___ said:


> buy an old miata that u can afford to wreck. u'll have more fun too.


Sounds more expensive to buy and keep running than the $500 supplemental insurance policy. Plus, I'd want a full cage in that Miata if I were going to drive it on the track. A track car will be in the driveway at some point, but I've been thinking more along the lines of an E36 328is.

At this point, if I can't get regular coverage that will cover HPDEs, I'll just skip the event this year. With all that's going on with our new house, I haven't even been concentrating on this event that much.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

doeboy said:


> And they're cheap too... :thumbup:


Do you have them? Have you ever made a claim? If so, how was the process and did they treat you right?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

StahlGrauM3 said:


> Do you have them? Have you ever made a claim? If so, how was the process and did they treat you right?


I have them... I'm on my second year with them now. I've personally never made a claim. (hope I never have to)

I was wondering about it as well, but I've heard from several people that Wawanesa is good and they've never had a hard time before in the 20 years or so they've been with them... :dunno: That was enough to make me want to give it a shot so here I am.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Looks like I'm switching insurance carriers and I'll still be able to go to my event in a few weeks. :thumbup:

I'm still in the process of getting a quote, but if it's anywhere close to what I'm paying now (and I bet it will be, considering that I've never shopped around for car insurance), I'm switching. It'll be with a smaller insurance company that uses standardized language. The standardized language these companies use does not have a specific exclusion for HPDEs (yet). Big insurance companies like Allstate and Nationwide write their own language in their policies. I might even save money on my insurance by dropping Nationwide.  I'll find out by next Monday.

I hear Allstate put in an exclusion for driver's schools last year, so this is definitely turning into a trend.


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## binaryfarms (Feb 2, 2003)

FWIW, I scoured a bunch of different forums a while back looking for a new insurance company that would at least be DE tolerant. In the end I went with Amica based on raves from their customers, a JDpower survey, and this info from the porkchop boards:

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=112417

Basically, the guy that runs traquest gives a rundown on his experience with Insurance Co.'s and incident coverage.

I took the "don't ask don't tell" advice seen here and elsewhere, and just read the policy carefully but did not specifically ask the agent about DE's. Amica does have the standard "preparing for or participating in" clause, but based on this advice they sound as good as any, don't specifically exclude them, and were cheaper than State Farm. The other insurance company he mentions is USAA, but I think I read here somewhere here on the fest that USAA now specifically excludes DE's...

anyway, hope it helps.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Thanks for the info.

BTW, after doing some research, I was blown away by how many insurance companies there are out there. Check out this list of companies that provide some sort of auto coverage in PA...there's 1,688 companies listed!

http://www.insurance.state.pa.us/cgi/gfsearch.pl


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

___lk___ said:


> buy an old miata that u can afford to wreck. u'll have more fun too.


 :thumbup:

You can get a used Miata in very nice shape very inexpensivly and they make GREAT track cars.

And you could still use it as your beater on the road or to futz around in when the weather is nice.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

LmtdSlip said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> You can get a used Miata in very nice shape very inexpensivly and they make GREAT track cars.
> 
> And you could still use it as your beater on the road or to futz around in when the weather is nice.


That may be true, but it's another discussion for another day. I'm not going to buy even a $5k car to fix up and bring to the track this year, let alone for my school in three weeks.

I found out today that I'm not saving any money by switching insurance carriers. I got a speeding ticket nearly two years ago and it's driving my rates up on this new policy. :tsk: Even though the cost of my Nationwide policy seemed kind of high to me, it also turns out it that it really was a pretty good deal.

The combination of wanting to save some cash for our new house, having a 7 month old baby at home along with our 4 year old, being busy getting our current home ready to be put on the market, and most importantly, not having my normal burning desire to go to the track this year (probably because I'm focused on our new house), all adds up to me thinking it's probably better just to cancel my spot in this driver's school.

...anyway, I just figured I'd wrap up my story to say I doubt I'm going at this point...


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## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

PhilH said:


> The best alternative I've seen to switching carriers is supplemental coverage (as suggested by Pinecone in a previous thread)... http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_faq.htm


20% deductible is way too high of a deductibe IMHO.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

sergiok said:


> 20% deductible is way too high of a deductibe IMHO.


I totally agree with you, but right now it seems that they're the only game in town for driver's school coverage. It seems there's an opportunity for other insurance companies to come in and make some bucks as mainstream auto insurance companies exclude coverage. Plus, from what I understand, since you name the value of your car for this type of coverage, you can simply pay a higher premium in order to cover that big deductible.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

PhilH said:


> I totally agree with you, but right now it seems that they're the only game in town for driver's school coverage. It seems there's an opportunity for other insurance companies to come in and make some bucks as mainstream auto insurance companies exclude coverage. Plus, from what I understand, since you name the value of your car for this type of coverage, you can simply pay a higher premium in order to cover that big deductible.


Exactly.

Which is kind of why them having a "large deductable" is rather stupid. Just sell the amont of coverage that you want/need, and charge an appropriate amount.


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## RoughIdle (Nov 20, 2003)

doeboy said:


> I have them... I'm on my second year with them now. I've personally never made a claim. (hope I never have to)
> 
> I was wondering about it as well, but I've heard from several people that Wawanesa is good and they've never had a hard time before in the 20 years or so they've been with them... :dunno: That was enough to make me want to give it a shot so here I am.


I just called up Wawanesa and talked to one of their quote guys. I specifically asked if they will cover my car when I'm in driving school. The guy didn't know what driving school was and when I told him it's conducted on a race track he freaked out and said "No no we don't cover that!" I'm wondering if this is just a knee jerk reaction from a clueless person or if this is really true. So for the people who have Wawanesa, do you know what the real deal is? Also, did you find out by reading the fine print somewhere or did you hear about it from one of their people?


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