# Found out my car is SULEV & driving me mad



## rawnak (Feb 23, 2004)

Hi,

I bought my car 3 months ago.
I had taken my car for service (due to some issues) to dealer. He gave me a 325i
loaner which seemed faster than my car. Then led me to suspect if my car is SULEV  ,
I asked the service advisor and he said YES. 

I feel BMW is cheating the consumer by not giving full information.

The reason i say this bcos
1) The Window Sticker says 325i not 325i SULEV.
2) The SULEV is mentioned in a sticker when u open the hood. so it is buried info,
how many people will go open a hood of brand new car and look for that sticker if they
are not aware of it.
3) Also no data is published about M56 engine ( which present in SULEV instead of M54)
and also fact that it is slower than regular one.

My sales advisor never mentioned that it is SULEV car.

Now I know why I got a good discount off 2003 car bought in 2004.
If I had this info before I bought the car I would certainly have paid more to
get Non-SULEV car. Car has 3000 miles on it.

Is it possible to pay some more and get this car exchanged for NON-SULEV car?
I was thinking of writing the GM of this dealership a letter expressing my displeasure
of being kept in the dark about being sold a SULEV car and explore any exchange for Non-SULEV
car by paying more?

What would sales advisors on this forum suggest?
In your opinion what would be a fair way of resolving this from both parties perspective
(mine and dealer)?

BTW, I am very happy with the service dept. of this dealership and defintely give them 5's
if I am surveyed by BMW since they have earned it.

thanks
rawnak


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Your solution would be a manual transmission or a 330.

Or you could have the legislators in government who brought this garbage about shot. That'd be a lot more productive.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Oh, or you could order a replacement from a dealer in a non-CARB state.


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## Tanning machine (Feb 21, 2002)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Oh, or you could order a replacement from a dealer in a non-CARB state.


Yep, that's your problem. You live in the wrong state.

BTW, what are the rules on buying in another state and registering in MA (or Cal., or other NE states)? I thought at least in Cal. you had to pay a penalty if the car was fairly new and didn't have calfiornia emissions. Or is that a different rule from SULEV/ZLEV rules.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Tanning machine said:


> Yep, that's your problem. You live in the wrong state.
> 
> BTW, what are the rules on buying in another state and registering in MA (or Cal., or other NE states)? I thought at least in Cal. you had to pay a penalty if the car was fairly new and didn't have calfiornia emissions. Or is that a different rule from SULEV/ZLEV rules.


That law was overturned. The "welcome to California... F you" law. :rofl:

I had to pay a $350 fee on my '93 Mazda MX-6. Was refunded a couple of years later.


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## rawnak (Feb 23, 2004)

Ted, Sarafil & Other CA's,

What are your suggestions on this?

BTW the salesperson that i bought my car from is no longer with
this dealership.

Thanks
rawnak



rawnak said:


> Hi,
> 
> I bought my car 3 months ago.
> I had taken my car for service (due to some issues) to dealer. He gave me a 325i
> ...


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

What's wrong with SULEV? :dunno:


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## TedW (Jan 13, 2003)

rawnak said:


> Ted, Sarafil & Other CA's,
> 
> What are your suggestions on this?
> 
> ...


Every 325I automatic that I have in stock or incoming is an SULEV. Any non-SULEV that we get we make a stick. I suspect this is true with all dealers that are in states with the SULEV requirement. The reason that we cringe when we get allocated SULEV cars is because it means that these cars must be automatics and it gives us an unbalaced inventory weighted heavily toward automatics. I haven't seen any proof that the performance of an SULEV car is any different than that of a non-SULEV automatic 325. If you wish to pursue this I would suggest that you take it up with BMWNA directly. I don't think that your dealer did anything to intentionally mislead you. You simply have to sell what you have and since there is no documentation about performance differences, your dealer would have had no reason to belive that the SULEV they sold you would be any less of a vehicle than a non-SULEV. Just my opinion.

Ted


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

TedW said:


> Every 325I automatic that I have in stock or incoming is an SULEV. Any non-SULEV that we get we make a stick. I suspect this is true with all dealers that are in states with the SULEV requirement. The reason that we cringe when we get allocated SULEV cars is because it means that these cars must be automatics and it gives us an unbalaced inventory weighted heavily toward automatics. I haven't seen any proof that the performance of an SULEV car is any different than that of a non-SULEV automatic 325. If you wish to pursue this I would suggest that you take it up with BMWNA directly. I don't think that your dealer did anything to intentionally mislead you. You simply have to sell what you have and since there is no documentation about performance differences, your dealer would have had no reason to belive that the SULEV they sold you would be any less of a vehicle than a non-SULEV. Just my opinion.
> 
> Ted


Only thing I can think of is that the SULEV car might be slightly heavier. I think I rememer reading that the SULEV uses a stainless steel vs plastic gas tank to meet some requirmenet that SULEVs can't release any vapor for some extended period of time (10-12 years). Maybe its slightly heavier, and you can feel it.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Getting back to the weight thing, it might just be that the loaner had fewer options. 

Regardless, there is no recourse on this one.


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## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

Also, some cars (even when identical) will feel different. There are always manufacturing variances, and some engines will be stronger than others.


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

LeucX3 said:


> What's wrong with SULEV? :dunno:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Here are the changes made from the M54B25 to the M56B25 (SULEV) as posted by Mr.PaddleShift a couple of days ago:

_• Pistons Revised to change spark travel path
• Catalytic Converters Ceramic carriers with high cell density for better "Warm Up" Control
• Oxygen Sensors Planar wide band O2 sensors in front of the cats
• Vanos Positioning changed during start up for improved start up and emissions
• Fuel Pump Control Revised with raised pressure and more accurate flow control
• Fuel Injectors New design for improved fuel flow and higher working pressure
• Fuel System All metal fuel system components made of stainless steel
• Air Intake System Revised to block HC escape
• Crankcase Ventilation Revised
• Secondary Air System Mass air flow sensor to monitor secondary air flow
• Cooling System Revised to reduce Ozone levels_

I don't see anything in there that would specifically decrease performance.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Kaz said:


> Here are the changes made from the M54B25 to the M56B25 (SULEV) as posted by Mr.PaddleShift a couple of days ago:
> 
> _• Pistons Revised to change spark travel path
> • Catalytic Converters Ceramic carriers with high cell density for better "Warm Up" Control
> ...


-Maybe the revised intake system is more restrictive in some way..
-I'm also betting that the stainless steel fule system components add some weight that could be noticeable.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

robg said:


> -Maybe the revised intake system is more restrictive in some way..
> -I'm also betting that the stainless steel fule system components add some weight that could be noticeable.


The revised intake system incorporates the bigger throttle body (and MAF, I think) from the M54B30. I don't know about the rest of it.

The stainless stuff can't weigh a whole lot more.

I can see the new cats being more restrictive, though, but enough to be noticeable? I'm also thinking that transmission programming might be different, too (recall the M56 is only installed with ATs).


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## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

And if there does turn out to be a minor performance difference, is it really a hurkin' enough tradeoff in light of the lower emissions? You're not going to be smoking carbohydraters at a stoplight with an auto 325 anyhoo... :eeps:


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## drmwvr (Feb 21, 2003)

The Roadstergal said:


> And if there does turn out to be a minor performance difference, is it really a hurkin' enough tradeoff in light of the lower emissions? You're not going to be smoking carbohydraters at a stoplight with an auto 325 anyhoo... :eeps:


ULEV 2.5l motor is sexier


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Tanning machine said:


> Yep, that's your problem. You live in the wrong state.
> 
> BTW, what are the rules on buying in another state and registering in MA (or Cal., or other NE states)? I thought at least in Cal. you had to pay a penalty if the car was fairly new and didn't have calfiornia emissions. Or is that a different rule from SULEV/ZLEV rules.


All modern BMWs are 50-state emissions legal... i.e, they all have CA emissions... do they not? :dunno:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

doeboy said:


> All modern BMWs are 50-state emissions legal... i.e, they all have CA emissions... do they not? :dunno:


Yes. IIRC the SULEV cars being sold in the CA-regulation states is a voluntary thing on BMW's part. Probably to get emission 'credits' in California the way Toyota and Honda do with their hybrids.


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## dbock (Jan 8, 2004)

I'll apologize in advance...but what is SULEV/ULEV...is it just because I bought a car in Chicago that I don't deal with this issue. I bought a 2004 325xi with AT...it's pretty damn quick...quicker than the loaner 325i that I just had...how do I know if it's a SULEV or not? Also I just had the tranny replaced about a week ago...and the car seems even faster with the rebuild...The Shift points are better and smoother...has anyone else experienced this?


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