# ISTA-D/Rheingold vs INPA on F30



## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

I have been using INPA on my E90 for some time now and am quite well versed with it. A fantastic and simple tool which does much including reading real time values, tests, reading/clearing codes, etc.

After I picked up my F30 recently, I was introduced to ISTA-D/Rheingold. I also have the custom version of INPA for the F30 which apparently has a limited functionality though. Thanks to shawnsheridan and Almaretto for having shared them.

I find INPA much more superior in codes' handling even with its limitations on the F30. I have seriously begun to doubt the legitimacy of ISTA-D now. It's because ISTA-D has never displayed a single error in fault memory till now whilst there were codes displayed by INPA. For instance, there was the brake light error yesterday which INPA very profoundly picked up but ISTA-D couldn't. ISTA-D displayed the module tree all in green and clicking on "Display Fault Memory" displayed blank. And this is not the only case, many earlier times too have faced this contradiction.

I would have loved if there was a full working version of INPA for the F30, but unfortunately and supposedly, INPA does not support all modules, but just a few like DME and FEM.

Has anyone else faced the same issue as I? This makes me think if ISTA-D is of any real use in playing with codes or am I missing something here? Could someone, an ardent ISTA-D user throw some light on this please?


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## botho (Jun 3, 2014)

For FDL coding on Fx series you have to use Esys


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## God-Follower (Oct 3, 2014)

botho said:


> For FDL coding on Fx series you have to use Esys


Not quite relevant to what he is talking about here bud.

OP, as an ardent ISTA/D user working for a dealer, I agree with your assessment. ISTA/D does not display all faults in the displayed operation, and it is frustrating. Keep in mind ISTA/D is the factory scan tool for BMW, and as such they get to pick and choose what information they want factory technicians to have access to. The faults you are seeing are logged in ISTA/D as "shadow fault memory", which is not visible to the technicians via the diagnostic operation. The best answer I have gotten is that they don't want us seeing those faults as they are usually only information faults, not full fledged "faulty" faults and would send some technicians down rabbit holes on the diagnosis path.

However, there is a way to view them. When the operation in ISTA/D is ended, ISTA/D generates what is called FASTA data. This is meant to be transmitted to BMWAG, they keep records of every operation run on a vehicle this way. The FASTA data includes these shadow faults, but it takes some digging. First off, operations can become quite large; most xml viewers have a size cap, and an operation with multiple ABLs performed can have a large FASTA file. BMW makes what is called an Order Data Viewer, which is able to handle them in their native extensions(.behdat,.anzgif(sp?), etc) and displays them in a more legible manner. However, I am not 100% convinced that it still doesn't hide some things, so a raw xml viewer is recommended.

This won't let you run any test plans on the shadow faults, but it will let you see they are there. It also gives the recorded values taken while running procedures, even if they were not displayed on screen.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## Reclaimer (Oct 20, 2015)

God-Follower said:


> Not quite relevant to what he is talking about here bud.
> 
> OP, as an ardent ISTA/D user working for a dealer, I agree with your assessment. ISTA/D does not display all faults in the displayed operation, and it is frustrating. Keep in mind ISTA/D is the factory scan tool for BMW, and as such they get to pick and choose what information they want factory technicians to have access to. The faults you are seeing are logged in ISTA/D as "shadow fault memory", which is not visible to the technicians via the diagnostic operation. The best answer I have gotten is that they don't want us seeing those faults as they are usually only information faults, not full fledged "faulty" faults and would send some technicians down rabbit holes on the diagnosis path.
> 
> ...


+1

ISTA+ is better than INPA considering the amount and breadth of information available. There will be codes that are informational or random. Not every code will have a reason, but when it matters ISTA+ will offer a measures plan to fix those errors.

If you really want to find those faults that you are "not" seeing in ISTA+, do this:
Find this file ~\Rheingold\TesterGUI\bin\Release\ISTAGUI.exe.config
In the file find the following section and change values as below:


```
<add key="TesterGUI.HideBogusFaults" value="false"/>
<add key="TesterGUI.HideUnknownFaults" value="false"/>
<add key="BMW.Rheingold.Diagnostics.VehicleIdent.INFO.GetDTCDetails" value="true"/>
```
This will light up your ECU tree in ISTA+


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

God-Follower said:


> Not quite relevant to what he is talking about here bud.
> 
> OP, as an ardent ISTA/D user working for a dealer, I agree with your assessment. ISTA/D does not display all faults in the displayed operation, and it is frustrating. Keep in mind ISTA/D is the factory scan tool for BMW, and as such they get to pick and choose what information they want factory technicians to have access to. The faults you are seeing are logged in ISTA/D as "shadow fault memory", which is not visible to the technicians via the diagnostic operation. The best answer I have gotten is that they don't want us seeing those faults as they are usually only information faults, not full fledged "faulty" faults and would send some technicians down rabbit holes on the diagnosis path.
> 
> ...


That sums it up quite well, all hope is not lost yet on ISTA-D afterall, will give it a shot on deciphering the mentioned files, will try to dig up these XML's and see if something can be decoded. Thanks.


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

Reclaimer said:


> +1
> 
> ISTA+ is better than INPA considering the amount and breadth of information available. There will be codes that are informational or random. Not every code will have a reason, but when it matters ISTA+ will offer a measures plan to fix those errors.
> 
> ...


That is very promising and encouraging. Will give it a shot this weekend and let's see how it goes, but my ECU tree lighting up is the last thing I would like to see, I'm better off with ISTA-D as-is in that case. 

Thank you for the technical specifics.


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## God-Follower (Oct 3, 2014)

shaik786 said:


> That sums it up quite well, all hope is not lost yet on ISTA-D afterall, will give it a shot on deciphering the mentioned files, will try to dig up these XML's and see if something can be decoded. Thanks.


It does not save them with the xml extension, I can get you the extension list tomorrow.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

That would be very kind, thank you.


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## God-Follower (Oct 3, 2014)

God-Follower said:


> It does not save them with the xml extension, I can get you the extension list tomorrow.
> 
> Sent from my ONE A2005 using Bimmerfest mobile app


The most current versions of ISTA/D(aka ISTA Next or ISTA+) are saving FASTA files with extensions .fstdat, .fstdat.gz, .antgzg.gz, and .behdat. The .gz files are already compressed, so if you are trying to view files with an XML viewer I would go for the uncompressed files(.behdat and .fstdat) or extract the files from the containers using 7zip or something similar.

File names should be formatted 1_7VIN_DEALERCODE_Outlet_Datestamp_time.extension. Not sure how your files will come out with dealer code or outlet info using unregistered software. Also, not 100% sure if FASTA file creation is even enabled on ISTA+ that is downloaded outside the dealer, have not played with it myself since I have access to it at the dealer.


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks, will get my hands dirty this weekend and see if I can make something out of it.


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

Update:

Last weekend, got some time to play a little with ISTA+ and found that there is this directory which captures data every time a session is established between the car and computer: C:\Rheingold\Transactions\. Sample filename: RG_TRANS_WBA3F370X0NPxxxxx20170415173504.xml

This directory basically has one XML file created for every session established, and contains data ECU/Module wise. Look for information between tags <F_ORT_TEXT></F_ORT_TEXT> which captures DTC/code. Sample data of a DTC on my vehicle:


```
<F_ORT_TEXT>[B]LIN Master A: Keine Kommunikation[/B]</F_ORT_TEXT>
<F_EREIGNIS_DTC>0</F_EREIGNIS_DTC>
<F_FEHLERKLASSE_NR>4</F_FEHLERKLASSE_NR>
<F_FEHLERKLASSE_TEXT>[B]Ueberpruefung sofort erforderlich [/B]!</F_FEHLERKLASSE_TEXT>
```
Was wondering if there is a ready BMW XML tool which interprets these files? Information in the XML is pretty concise, however, it would be helpful to have a tool which presents the available data in a more readable format.


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## God-Follower (Oct 3, 2014)

shaik786 said:


> Update:
> 
> Last weekend, got some time to play a little with ISTA+ and found that there is this directory which captures data every time a session is established between the car and computer: C:\Rheingold\Transactions\. Sample filename: RG_TRANS_WBA3F370X0NPxxxxx20170415173504.xml
> 
> ...


Yes, BMW has a tool called an Order Data Viewer that interprets the FASTA file and makes it a little more legible.

Sent from my ONE A2005 using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

And where can I download the Order Data Viewer please? Any download link available?


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## Reclaimer (Oct 20, 2015)

shaik786 said:


> And where can I download the Order Data Viewer please? Any download link available?


PM'd


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## shaik786 (Mar 17, 2015)

Thank you Redclaimer for the link, have downloaded and run the software with my vehicle data (XML) I have on my machine.

However, the screen shows all null/blank values, could it be because this version of XML's is not supported by the viewer, or am I missing something here? I use the "Rheingold 3.56.21 Standalone" version on my machine. Screenshot below for reference:


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## Reclaimer (Oct 20, 2015)

Have a read through this thread and see if it works for you: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=924394


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## hafrse (Jul 20, 2004)

*OrderDataViewer*

Hello,

From where I can get OrderDataViewer to view the FASA data?
Many thanks in advance!


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## d_chris_d (Mar 3, 2016)

Hello, could you please send me an pm with the link where i can download the order data viewer?

Thanks in advanced ***x1f642;


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