# Help me get off the fence on this 2012 x5d



## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

Hey All - 

Been an Audi enthusiast since i was born but also love bmw's, just havent owned one yet... Always wanted to get an x5 because i think they are great looking autocarriages.

I have a deal done on a 2012 x5d with 109k miles ($17,500)... I am a little bit of a freak when it comes to cars and this one meets all of my standards as far as the condition. I also considered a 2012 with 55k miles and the 109k miles car is in better shape and better history, plus 6 grand less. Single owner. all options, all maint records, and everything performed by the local BMW (towne) dealership. New brakes on all 4 corners. Plus I think its a pretty good price.

So in the inspection process the car tripped the check engine light. Unfortunately i have not been able to get the specific codes that it tripped, only that they were exhaust system codes, so they replaced 3 sensors, two of them were NOX sensors ($1k)

Now the car has to be driven ~300 miles im told before it can pass inspection. I assumed thats something to do with the regen but still seems like a lot of miles.

My question I suppose comes down to an unfamiliarity with these diesel exhaust systems... Does a failure now mean that Im good on these sensors for a while or does it mean that some things are starting to go south with bigger repairs on the horizon? Ive read all about the DPF for what thats worth. The owner says that I have a transferable warranty until 125k miles... I think its 120k miles from my research.

I really like the car, but im thinking about walking... any advice or things I have not thought of would be appreciated.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

I should probably have mentioned that whenever possible I DIY repairs and upgrades ... I would probably take on the DPF delete with the help of a buddy


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## 16valex (Jul 31, 2004)

The DEF problem sounds worse than it is. You have extended warranty until 120K to straight it out.
But, honestly $17.5 K is too much. Even a diesel with 109K miles is hard to sell with CEL ON.

Give him your serious offer at $15 K and start walk away.

I paid $14K for my 2010 with 90K miles.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

The CEL is off now, it went on, they replaced the sensors and it cleared. Still too much?

Looking at the FMV's of whats for sale it seems like a competitive price but again i am entering into the BMW world. The other cars i drove that are for sale near me are:

2011 with 114k - $14k
2012 with 53k - $24k


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## 16valex (Jul 31, 2004)

ROCHESTERwinter said:


> The CEL is off now, it went on, they replaced the sensors and it cleared. Still too much?
> 
> Looking at the FMV's of whats for sale it seems like a competitive price but again i am entering into the BMW world. The other cars i drove that are for sale near me are:
> 
> ...


Yes, still too much.
Most buyers is afraid of BMW with high miles and the seller knows it. I think you can get it for $15K.
I intend to keep mine forever, and maybe looking to delete the DEF myself.

Been a fan of BMW since 2003. This is my fourth one in the BMW stable.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

New nox sensors is good, would be better if you knew:
- History on DEF tank replacement. If it's been done recently, great, if not BMW will cover until 120k. I forget if only one of the two tanks is covered or both. I should know, I don't recall for sure...
- State of health for the thermostat. They soft fail and if bad enough regens won't happen. Temp should be 88c. They last 60-80k it seems. Labor is ridiculous, but then again if you're used to Audi it may all be relative...

Other than that, it is probably operating on original trans / diff / TC fluids, but that is a BMW thing and not diesel specific. I'd catch up on that maintenance with proper fluids.

While we tend to focus on problems, I actually love my 2012 X5d and so far (near five years and 77k miles) it has been trouble free. I intend on keeping it another five years, then will assess the situation based on personal finances / early retired or not / where I'm living / driving profile.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

Thanks guys - It seems like a really well put together vehicle

My buddy is a car wholesaler. said they are going to ~13,500 wholesale with similar profiles.

I will ask about the tank

Is the thermostat DIYable? Thermostats on Audis are a pretty common repair too but ive always been able to DIY


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## 16valex (Jul 31, 2004)

ROCHESTERwinter said:


> Thanks guys - It seems like a really well put together vehicle
> 
> My buddy is a car wholesaler. said they are going to ~13,500 wholesale with similar profiles.
> 
> ...


That's believable whole sale price. I like the X5 so far. it's only been 3 weeks since I bought. I have a new thermostat ready to go in if the weather breaks up a little. It can't be that hard.

My thermostat shows 74C which is way to cold. It should be around 88C using OBC (on board computer) you can read coolant temp on test number 7. Do a search for secret menu to learn how to open OBC.


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## lawlknight (Sep 13, 2016)

Some jobs can be quite a bit of work. I paid 3.5 hours labor for my thermostat to be replaced. Check out the manuals if you want to see if stuff can be done by yourself.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e70-x5-xdrive35d-sav/repair-manuals/

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/...hermostat-engine-proof-coolant-lines/8J90cdih


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

ROCHESTERwinter said:


> Thanks guys - It seems like a really well put together vehicle
> 
> My buddy is a car wholesaler. said they are going to ~13,500 wholesale with similar profiles.
> 
> ...


It is DIY but takes more time then Audi. It is inline engine. Audi is V so there is more spec generally under the hood.

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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Yes it is DIYable. There is not the same level of really well done and detailed video support as for the E46. For those you can really good DIY videos for almost anything, but generally BMW's are not that hard to work on. You just need to be methodical and in this case there is a lot of stuff to remove in order to get to it.


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

I would run away from it. The whole emissions story you provided is a bit cloudy, and I would want to know much more. If it threw up a bunch of codes, why couldn't they tell you which ones? Who is "they"? Who is doing the repairs? Who stated they changed out the NOX sensors? You can clear the codes long enough for you to buy the car and then they come back on. The having to be driving ~300miles before it can pass an inspection is wrong. That doesn't make any sense at all. After your replace NOX sensors they would rest adaptations and clear the codes, so it would pass. Who made up that story about having to drive ~300miles? If it was for DPF regen, that is stupid, because if they can clear codes, then their scanner of whatever else more than likely can force a regen. My $150 scanner can force a regen.

You need to be cautious about some of the responses in this thread. The talk about the SCR tank is inaccurate insofar as it is the active tank that has the Extended Life Warranty (ELW). Someone sort of mentioned it has two tanks. Only one is covered under the ELW. Knowing which codes it generated are important, because folks on this thread or only talking about a couple emissions related items, and there are plenty in the system that can trigger the same codes. So, I'd be concerned about not knowing what codes were generated, if they DIYd it themselves or just cleared codes, or what.

Injectors, rail, EGR, SCR metering valve, SCR metering line, SCR temp sensor, DPF, SCR catalyst, glow plugs, preheating control module, etc.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

imtjm said:


> I would run away from it. The whole emissions story you provided is a bit cloudy, and I would want to know much more. If it threw up a bunch of codes, why couldn't they tell you which ones? Who is "they"? Who is doing the repairs? Who stated they changed out the NOX sensors? You can clear the codes long enough for you to buy the car and then they come back on. The having to be driving ~300miles before it can pass an inspection is wrong. That doesn't make any sense at all. After your replace NOX sensors they would rest adaptations and clear the codes, so it would pass. Who made up that story about having to drive ~300miles? If it was for DPF regen, that is stupid, because if they can clear codes, then their scanner of whatever else more than likely can force a regen. My $150 scanner can force a regen.
> 
> You need to be cautious about some of the responses in this thread. The talk about the SCR tank is inaccurate insofar as it is the active tank that has the Extended Life Warranty (ELW). Someone sort of mentioned it has two tanks. Only one is covered under the ELW. Knowing which codes it generated are important, because folks on this thread or only talking about a couple emissions related items, and there are plenty in the system that can trigger the same codes. So, I'd be concerned about not knowing what codes were generated, if they DIYd it themselves or just cleared codes, or what.
> 
> Injectors, rail, EGR, SCR metering valve, SCR metering line, SCR temp sensor, DPF, SCR catalyst, glow plugs, preheating control module, etc.


Thanks - Yea I think Ive come to the same conclusion. I thought the 300 miles thing really sounded like BS and it was a big red flag. I had to drive a car 25 miles before to pass emissions but, 300 sounded made up. Thanks for the detail there, that is extremely helpful. In the context of my story "they" was the local BMW dealership, but i did not see a copy of the invoice.

Which scanner do you have our of curiosity?

Another one just came up for sale locally which i'm looking at today...2011 with 99k miles, 14,500. And my buddy is going to send me the auction list tomorrow to see whats coming up at manheim Friday

So the search continues

Thanks to everyone also for the DIY insight


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

Schwaben version of the Foxwell NT510. The NT510 is a very good scanner. You can currently buy the Foxwell brand NT510 direct from foxwelltool for $149.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

I think i attached a screen shot of the invoice... but it looks like the fault was:

4D16 SCR system efficiency

They replaced both NOX sensors

He is still maintaining that the car wouldn't pass inspection until it was driven 300 miles 

Do all of you guys still think that 17,500 is too much? The car i looked at today was in the 14k range but its also not in nearly as nice of shape as the subject car.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

ROCHESTERwinter said:


> I think i attached a screen shot of the invoice... but it looks like the fault was:
> 
> 4D16 SCR system efficiency
> 
> ...


Lol 300 miles? WTF is that? When NOx are changed SCR needs to be calibrated, that is it. If it is still popping out CEL then it could be metering valve (best case scenario) or SCR catalytic converter that doesn't mix DEF with exhaust gases properly (worst case scenario). How I know? I just changed NOx and SCR cat. SCR calibration was done, BMW guys took for a spin (10 miles) i took car, next day did emission test (needed to register car) and all was done.

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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

yea just so we are clear the light is off now...and its 300 miles before the NYS inspection would run on it (allegedly). 

Ive had to drive other cars (Audis) 30 to 60 miles after a reset before the car would allow the NYS inspection to run through its emissions check, so its not unprecedented i just feel like 300 miles is a lot


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

ROCHESTERwinter said:


> yea just so we are clear the light is off now...and its 300 miles before the NYS inspection would run on it (allegedly).
> 
> Ive had to drive other cars (Audis) 30 to 60 miles after a reset before the car would allow the NYS inspection to run through its emissions check, so its not unprecedented i just feel like 300 miles is a lot


Welcome to emissions system nightmare with diesel engines. This is problem across the board with SCR system. 
I think if catalytic converter was bad it would pop out 4D18 immediately.

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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

NYS is an obdii emissions check, so if the faults were cleared, there would be no reasons to have to wait 300 miles.


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## rbreding (Sep 6, 2016)

The 300 miles is for readyness for it to clear the last sensor and is legit. Not made up. However that is an internal readyness for emissions and will not throw a CEL. Can be seen with a scanner. Get an obd scanner and at a minimum use that. If you actually plan on getting a bmw get a foxwell or schwaben scan tool.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

rbreding said:


> The 300 miles is for readyness for it to clear the last sensor and is legit. Not made up. However that is an internal readyness for emissions and will not throw a CEL. Can be seen with a scanner. Get an obd scanner and at a minimum use that. If you actually plan on getting a bmw get a foxwell or schwaben scan tool.


Thanks... the CEL was thrown driving to get the inspection, not from the inspection. It has been clear now, driven 300 miles and passed inspection with no lights on


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## imtjm (Oct 5, 2004)

rbreding said:


> The 300 miles is for readyness for it to clear the last sensor and is legit. Not made up. However that is an internal readyness for emissions and will not throw a CEL. Can be seen with a scanner. Get an obd scanner and at a minimum use that. If you actually plan on getting a bmw get a foxwell or schwaben scan tool.


phooey, hogwash! I just replaced my NOX sensors, ran adaptations, and cleared faults, and there was no "readyness (sic)" seen in the scanner.


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## ROCHESTERwinter (Jan 8, 2018)

Well the readiness part is in the NYS software. has nothing to do with the sensors being changed 

I ended up buying a different one all together anyways for quite a bit less... took delivery yesterday

AND the light came on this morning. haha.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Congrats on the new to you X5, sorry about the trouble light. Hope it's something covered by BMW.


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## 16valex (Jul 31, 2004)

ROCHESTERwinter said:


> Well the readiness part is in the NYS software. has nothing to do with the sensors being changed
> 
> I ended up buying a different one all together anyways for quite a bit less... took delivery yesterday
> 
> AND the light came on this morning. haha.


Congrats man. Which one did you end up buying and how many miles?

My is only one month old to me. So far found a few problems.

Cat efficiency.
Metering valve.
Active tank level
rear window defrost.
frozen driver door latch.

Other that it runs great.
Oh it needs a new thermostat too.


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