# I think I got a bad tank of diesel...



## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Was in a different part of the state last weekend and the diesel there was almost 40 cents cheaper than my regular Sunoco/Irving/Mobil that I frequent so I decided to fill it up.

I've run 1/4 thru this current tank and power plus MPGs seems to be way down. I average about 23-24 and now I'm struggling to hit 20.

I guess I'm going back to my regular stations for diesel...


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## TeddyBGame (Nov 17, 2010)

Was there a cetane rating at the pump? Is it possible that some stations are offering lower than 40?


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

TeddyBGame said:


> Was there a cetane rating at the pump? Is it possible that some stations are offering lower than 40?


Nope, I don't think I've ever seen a cetane sticker on a diesel pump in Maine before.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Could also maybe be a old batch of fuel. When we had all those price fluctuations a few months back I could almost tell which stations don't sell a lot of diesel.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Snipe656 said:


> Could also maybe be a old batch of fuel. When we had all those price fluctuations a few months back I could almost tell which stations don't sell a lot of diesel.


Yeah, this might be it.

Never again will I go to the cheap crappy stations. (The gas station looked spotless though)

Only the best for the BMW though. :thumbup: Sunoco/Mobil/Irving it is


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I will not even go to the cheap ones in my truck and due to that I just end up going to the nicer(in my head at least) ones for all three. I used to go cheap for the truck then had differences in fuels explained to me and decided it just was not for me. I suppose I could even speculate that all of my truck injector problems(8 failures in total) maybe partly came from that. But those engines in my truck are known for injector issues so who really knows on that one.


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## jdclay (Oct 6, 2010)

AutoUnion said:


> Was in a different part of the state last weekend and the diesel there was almost 40 cents cheaper than my regular Sunoco/Irving/Mobil that I frequent so I decided to fill it up.
> 
> I've run 1/4 thru this current tank and power plus MPGs seems to be way down. I average about 23-24 and now I'm struggling to hit 20.
> 
> I guess I'm going back to my regular stations for diesel...


If it was THAT much cheaper, it was probably off-road diesel-- it's pretty much equivalent to low-sulfur (not ultra-low, like the standards now), it's not taxed the same (hence why it's cheaper), is dyed red, and is used mainly for farm vehicles. It's not good for vehicles that require high cetane and ULSD.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

jdclay said:


> If it was THAT much cheaper, it was probably off-road diesel-- it's pretty much equivalent to low-sulfur (not ultra-low, like the standards now), it's not taxed the same (hence why it's cheaper), is dyed red, and is used mainly for farm vehicles. It's not good for vehicles that require high cetane and ULSD.


No, it was regular ULSD. It had the green sticker at the pump. I spilled some on the side of the car, it was white fuel. There was a Ford truck filling up on the other side. I did some research on this station and it just opened last year. Surprised that they would have old diesel.

Side note, I just checked the BC. tank average so far is 19.7 mpg  I'm going on a 200 mile trip tomorrow to burn this crap off and put some quality fuel in.


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## jdclay (Oct 6, 2010)

Something's definitely off about it then. It would take a long while for the diesel to "decay" in effectiveness. Water in the tank is always a possibility, but most of the time newer facilities have sensors for water in fuel tanks (its a huge liability for the stations as they have to dig up the tanks and replace them if water is found).

All I can say is just try to use up the fuel and refill at your usual station and see if economy increases. 

Sucks not knowing what's causing it.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

jdclay said:


> but most of the time newer facilities have sensors for water in fuel tanks (its a huge liability for the stations as they have to dig up the tanks and replace them if water is found).


I do not believe that to be true or to be monitored if they have them, but in regards to down here and not everywhere. My reason is just personal experience, I just know too many people to this day that end up with water in their gas tanks after bad storms. Although has not happened to me in over 5 years but when it did so much water got pumped into my car that the car died 10 feet after filling up. I still occasionally get small amounts of water in diesel and know via the water separator in the truck. Seems when I get it in diesel that it comes with a specific fill up and takes multiple drainings of my separator before I quit getting warning lights about it.


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## jdclay (Oct 6, 2010)

BP Technical Bulletin

This is one place where I read about the addition of water sensors in tanks. BP (collective UGH!, I know), has started putting them in their stations. I think QT and Chevron have also.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Chevron is where I killed my old Bug at but that was a number of years ago. It is a smart idea for the sensors but just seems like it is not practiced or monitored down around here.


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## jdclay (Oct 6, 2010)

I'd say its just _expensive_ for the smaller guys (independent service stations) to afford to put them in. They're supposed to set off alarms and shut the pumps off if it exceeds a certain threshold, so it'd be hard to ignore. Let's just hope it catches on. It'd save people tons of headaches.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

jdclay said:


> I'd say its just _expensive_ for the smaller guys (independent service stations) to afford to put them in. They're supposed to set off alarms and shut the pumps off if it exceeds a certain threshold, so it'd be hard to ignore. Let's just hope it catches on. It'd save people tons of headaches.


We went after Chevron when our issue happened even though it was an independently owned station. Our argument was that Chevron's name was on the station as was it's logo. At the end of the day they paid for the damages, not only to the fuel system but body damage that happened when the car was transported due to the bad fuel incident happening.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

It would be nice if BMW would have put in a water separator or a larger fuel filter for instances like this. 



Side note, I just did some digging on the station where I filled up.

564 ALFRED STREET, BIDDEFORD, ME, 04005. It's a Gulf Station with a Cumberland Farms store. They only opened a year ago, so they're still quite new. We haven't had any major rain in the last couple weeks. Just on and off thunderstorms.

I don't think it has to do with water in the tank. This usually happens when the tank is starting to age, but the station has only been open a year. They're brand new. Probably just "old" diesel that was sitting around, so they discounted it. Next time I'm in the same area, I'll go to the Irving up the street instead of this Gulf.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

AutoUnion said:


> It would be nice if BMW would have put in a water separator or a larger fuel filter for instances like this.


I have been baffled since day one as to why BMW does not have secondary and primary fuel filters on these cars that both get replaced at the same time. But I am just used to that always being the case on diesels. Not just automotive ones either but also in the marine world. But maybe that is just how all newer diesel automotives are, can't say I have researched it. My truck is the only automotive diesel I have had with a water separator and I think it was silly to have when I first bought the truck. I was then quite surprised when the light goes off from water content. The separator is drained with every filter change too, so every 15k miles which makes it more surprising to me that before 15k miles it collects enough water to trigger that light to then trigger me to drain it.


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## PaceBMW of Mamaroneck (Jul 6, 2011)

sounds like a bad tank of gas, sucks but i guess it happens every once in a while. just go easy on the gas and try to get some "good gas" in there. btw, has anyone seen citgos new ads for "good gas?" what does that even mean?


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Snipe656 said:


> I have been baffled since day one as to why BMW does not have secondary and primary fuel filters on these cars that both get replaced at the same time. But I am just used to that always being the case on diesels. Not just automotive ones either but also in the marine world. But maybe that is just how all newer diesel automotives are, can't say I have researched it. My truck is the only automotive diesel I have had with a water separator and I think it was silly to have when I first bought the truck. I was then quite surprised when the light goes off from water content. The separator is drained with every filter change too, so every 15k miles which makes it more surprising to me that before 15k miles it collects enough water to trigger that light to then trigger me to drain it.


You'd think BMW (who are considered experts at diesels in EU) would have thought of all this and engineered our cars as such. However, I do have a feeling, they didn't think of this because EU diesel is so closely regulated and higher spec. Ford, on the other hand, being American, probably knew about our crap diesel and decided to put in the water separator.

I do know that BMW (and VW for that matter) did upgrade the fuel lines of the HPFP because our fuel has lower lubricacy.

One thing that really bugs me about new diesels is how sensitive they are to fuel. Put in a tank of gas by accident? Well, you're ****ed. Replace half the fuel system. Bad diesel? How about an $8k repair bill to replace the HPFP + lines. (the common VW CRD TDI issue)

I remember reading about old Rabbit diesels form the 80s. A little gas meant no problem. Just put diesel and oil in and it would run fine. I guess this is just one of those "german nags" we're going to have to put up with to enjoy our cars.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

PaceBMW of Mamaroneck said:


> sounds like a bad tank of gas, sucks but i guess it happens every once in a while. just go easy on the gas and try to get some "good gas" in there. btw, has anyone seen citgos new ads for "good gas?" what does that even mean?


Yeah, I've definitely been going easier on the gas. I also put a little of this Cetane booster in for this tank. I had some left over from my old diesel. I got a bad tank on a trip back from New Jersey in the Jetta TDI and this stuff helps tremendously.










http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

I wonder would it help if you top up the tank with V-Power Diesel from Shell to minimise the effect of the bad fuel?

I've filled up a few times in a Pioneer station here where Diesel is cheaper than Shell or PetroCanada but seems to have no effect and in fact my TDI still got great FE.
Currently Diesel is quite a bit cheaper than RUG here.


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