# Thinking of a 330Ci ZHP...looking for thoughts



## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

Hi all, I'm a newbie to the board but figured I'd ask some advice on a potential new purchase. Ultimately I want the M3 but seeing as how I'm going to lease and don't want to spend the $800/month on a car I have been looking at the 330Ci with the Performance Package.

My reason for leasing is I won't drive a car if I own it brand new (I'm too paranoid of scratches / dings). I currently have a 2003 Nissan Maxima that I've had for 2 years this September and the odo has only 4300 miles on it as a result of my insanity :yikes: . I also feel that I deserve a BMW and should drive a car that more reflects my age (32).

Anyway, can anyone tell me what kind of lease on a 3yr. 12k mile 330Ci ZHP I would be looking at? I've only leased one car before and didn't negotiate well (I didn't know you could) and the prices I'm seeing on BMWUSA.com are around $530 / month. I would be fine with that but would like to get a better deal if possible.

As far as my Maxima, will the 330Ci (with 235 HP) beat it? My Maxima has 255 HP and 246 ft/lbs of torque. The 0 - 6 times I've seen vary but it says the ZHP can get 5.9 seconds. There is no question that the 330Ci will handle better (which is important to me) even though I put lowering springs and shocks on my Maxima to help it. I dig all the stuff that comes with the ZHP package as well.


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## MicahO (Apr 19, 2004)

You'll need to get over your paranoias. Whatever the make or model, it's just a car. If you're not going to drive it, why bother buying OR leasing? Leasing a bimmer may be a nice way to get into a car that you 'want' and deem 'reflective of your age.' But does that mean you're going to keep the Maxima on the shelf for the long term and drive the piss out of the bimmer??? Bad choice, imnsho. The bimmer is the car for the long haul (particularly the e46, now that we've seen previews of the Bangled e90).

If you want to do the lease as a try and buy, go for it. If it gets banged up, don't buy it out. But you're going to love the car.......

As far as lease pricing, you'll have to see what sort of incentives are available at this point in history from various dealers. When I leased mine from Manhattan BMW, I got a monthly payment that was a full *$92 per month LESS* than what was showing on a similarly equipped car on the BMWUSA web site.

Last bit of opinion - comparing the performance of these two cars is utterly useless. Even IF the Max was faster to 60, or 30, or 90, or any other single metric, it's a completely different class of vehicle, starting with the fact that it's front wheel drive. Drive the bimmer, then buy it or lease it. It will be really easy to NOT put any mileage on the Max after you've got the ZHP in the driveway......


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## Scarmiglio (Jul 19, 2004)

Your lease payment will have a lot to do with the options you add to the car. If you purchase a 6-speed coupe with standard paint (white, black, or imola red), and the Performance Package only, you may be around $530 with no money down (except for registration and 1st months payment - maybe $900). Keep in mind that the estimated payment on the BMW site includes a $2500 down payment and does not include tax. Also, you can get a much better deal right now on a Sedan than a Coupe as the Sedan has a $2400 cash to dealer incentive and a low lease rate (1.9% approximately). The Coupe has the low lease rate only, but you can still get them to knock close to $2000 off the MSRP. I figure you could lease a Sedan with ZHP, Xenons, Moonroof, and Leather for around $530 - $550 including tax. A similar Coupe should be closer to $575-$600. Good luck!


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

spta97 said:


> Hi all, I'm a newbie to the board but figured I'd ask some advice on a potential new purchase. Ultimately I want the M3 but seeing as how I'm going to lease and don't want to spend the $800/month on a car I have been looking at the 330Ci with the Performance Package.
> 
> My reason for leasing is I won't drive a car if I own it brand new (I'm too paranoid of scratches / dings). I currently have a 2003 Nissan Maxima that I've had for 2 years this September and the odo has only 4300 miles on it as a result of my insanity :yikes: . I also feel that I deserve a BMW and should drive a car that more reflects my age (32).
> 
> ...


The sedan would be a much better deal. You can get a nicely equipped 330i ZHP for around 37-38k. With the MSRP around 43-44k. That'll make for a nice lease payment.

I'd suggest looking around at everything though. While I like my ZHP, I know when the lease is up it's going back to the dealer.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

Thanks for the replies. I should have noted that I'm selling the Maxima as a result of me not driving it. I had a 97 trans am that I sold after 4 years with 13,000 miles - basically the same deal. Not only am I paranoid (we all have our problems) but I also get pretty sick of cars after 3 years which is why I prefer to lease. It's so much easier to turn it in for me than to have to worry about selling it.

As far as the speed, I would really like to know if it is as fast as my Maxima. I understand it is a completely different car but I'm really interested in the power of it (with the 235 HP engine). I love to drive fast and would really like an M3 but it is just too much money for me now. After the mortgage and bills I cannot justify that kind of quan on a car - yet.

The sedan would be a good route if I wanted one but I want a coupe. I really like the way it looks more and don't have the need for 4 doors (I have my Explorer for that).


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

spta97 said:


> Thanks for the replies. I should have noted that I'm selling the Maxima as a result of me not driving it. I had a 97 trans am that I sold after 4 years with 13,000 miles - basically the same deal. Not only am I paranoid (we all have our problems) but I also get pretty sick of cars after 3 years which is why I prefer to lease. It's so much easier to turn it in for me than to have to worry about selling it.
> 
> As far as the speed, I would really like to know if it is as fast as my Maxima. I understand it is a completely different car but I'm really interested in the power of it (with the 235 HP engine). I love to drive fast and would really like an M3 but it is just too much money for me now. After the mortgage and bills I cannot justify that kind of quan on a car - yet.
> 
> The sedan would be a good route if I wanted one but I want a coupe. I really like the way it looks more and don't have the need for 4 doors (I have my Explorer for that).


Honest opinion on the power of the ZHP? It's decent. Not earthshaking and not nearly as much fun or growl as you'll get in the G35 coupe. The 2005 G35 coupe with the upped HP (295) and their version of the performance package (Sport) will run rings around BMW's 330ci ZHP. LSD, 19 inch rims are also on it. The LSD is a nice bump over what BMW offers...nothing but the DSC.

http://nissannews.com/infiniti/news/products/20040603045431.shtml

"The G35 coupe's new Sport model will be available in an advanced 5-speed automatic transmission or with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. The Sport 6MT model receives an additional 15-plus horsepower over automatic-equipped G35 coupe's standard 280 horsepower, bringing its power to the 295-horsepower range (final figures to be released later). "

Infiniti is also improving the interior on the G35s too.

You want speed and handling? And reliability? And sexy looks?

If a 2007 G35 convertible sport is available, I'd be mighty interested when I dump my 03 ZHP.


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## wag-zhp (Apr 8, 2004)

spta97 said:


> As far as the speed, I would really like to know if it is as fast as my Maxima. I understand it is a completely different car but I'm really interested in the power of it (with the 235 HP engine). I love to drive fast and would really like an M3 but it is just too much money for me now. After the mortgage and bills I cannot justify that kind of quan on a car - yet.


Yes, a 330 will "keep up" with a maxima, and a G35 for that matter. BWMs posted hp numbers don't seem to compare with other manufacturers very evenly. For example: 330i/ZHP has 235 hp, runs 0-60 in 5.6 and 1/4 mile in 14.3. A G35 has 280 hp, runs 0-60 in 5.9 and 1/4 mile in 14.6. Those numbers are hard to explain. On paper the G35 should blow the 330 out of the water, but on the pavement it's another story.

If you're really worried about speed, the 330 may not be your best choice. There are several faster cars out there (Mustang, WRX, Neon, etc) but you really have to consider the whole package. None of the bracketed cars above are as refined as the 3 series. You really have to test drive all of them to appreciate what the Bimmer offers.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

wag-zhp said:


> Yes, a 330 will "keep up" with a maxima, and a G35 for that matter. BWMs posted hp numbers don't seem to compare with other manufacturers very evenly. For example: 330i/ZHP has 235 hp, runs 0-60 in 5.6 and 1/4 mile in 14.3. A G35 has 280 hp, runs 0-60 in 5.9 and 1/4 mile in 14.6. Those numbers are hard to explain. On paper the G35 should blow the 330 out of the water, but on the pavement it's another story.
> 
> If you're really worried about speed, the 330 may not be your best choice. There are several faster cars out there (Mustang, WRX, Neon, etc) but you really have to consider the whole package. None of the bracketed cars above are as refined as the 3 series. You really have to test drive all of them to appreciate what the Bimmer offers.


What of the 05 G35 Sport 6/MT? It hasn't been tested but the basic G35 coupe does run sub 6 seconds to 60. And handling wise the current G35 coupe does post better numbers than a far more expensive 330ci.

I like the feel of BMWs more but on paper the G35 Coupe Sport looks like a home run. Just the LSD and the torque-filled pull of the 3.5 sounds nice vis-a-vis the 3.0 and non LSD on the 330 ZHP.


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## wag-zhp (Apr 8, 2004)

Blueguydotcom,

I have been edjucated by your previous post. I got distracted in the middle of writting mine and you snuck yours in before I finished...  The 2005 G35 sounds like it will be quite a monster. Too bad it's not available right now, or when I ordered my 330i. I was very torn between the G35 sedan and and the 330i. I really liked the fit and finish, and the driving feel of the 330i more than that of the G35. I ended up getting a phenominal lease deal on the 330i and that sealed it for me. If the new G35 were available a few months ago I might have had a different story to tell, but I doubt it. I've wanted a Bimmer for several years, and not because of the status symbol aspect. I made the mistake of driving a e36 M3 several years ago and have been hooked ever since.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

spta97 said:


> My reason for leasing is I won't drive a car if I own it brand new (I'm too paranoid of scratches / dings).


If you are paranoid about dings than the last thing you should do is lease. You may be hit with an excessive wear and tear charge when turn in your car at the end of the lease.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

wag-zhp said:


> Blueguydotcom,
> 
> I have been edjucated by your previous post. I got distracted in the middle of writting mine and you snuck yours in before I finished...  The 2005 G35 sounds like it will be quite a monster. Too bad it's not available right now, or when I ordered my 330i. I was very torn between the G35 sedan and and the 330i. I really liked the fit and finish, and the driving feel of the 330i more than that of the G35. I ended up getting a phenominal lease deal on the 330i and that sealed it for me. If the new G35 were available a few months ago I might have had a different story to tell, but I doubt it. I've wanted a Bimmer for several years, and not because of the status symbol aspect. I made the mistake of driving a e36 M3 several years ago and have been hooked ever since.


Same boat. The G35 6 mt sedan was fun. The ZHP lease sealed it.

But this guy is looking for a coupe and wants power and handling. The 05 G35 coupe fixes the interior problems and adds power and more handling tricks. For far less than a comparable 330ci ZHP.


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## sunilsf (Sep 22, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> Same boat. The G35 6 mt sedan was fun. The ZHP lease sealed it.
> 
> But this guy is looking for a coupe and wants power and handling. The 05 G35 coupe fixes the interior problems and adds power and more handling tricks. For far less than a comparable 330ci ZHP.


The weird thing to me is that Nissan tends to design their specs to look good on paper. Not to knock it, but reading their specs elevates my expectations.... and they last time a drove a couple of Nissans/Infinitis they left me underwhelmed from a hp and handling perspective.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

sunilsf said:


> The weird thing to me is that Nissan tends to design their specs to look good on paper. Not to knock it, but reading their specs elevates my expectations.... and they last time a drove a couple of Nissans/Infinitis they left me underwhelmed from a hp and handling perspective.


I didn't like the G35 6mt sedan's handling as much as my zhp. But the power on the G35 was far more linear and forceful than the anemic pull of my BMW. I don't think I'll ever get used to my BMW having no real power until it's over 4k rpm.

I know the G35 coupe is a far sharper handler than the sedan (being lower helps immediately) and the addition of an LSD would certainly do wonders in the corners. Add in a 35 HP bump and I'm certain the G35 coupe would pull like a rocket sled when compared to the 3.0 in a BMW.


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> I should have noted that I'm selling the Maxima as a result of me not driving it. I had a 97 trans am that I sold after 4 years with 13,000 miles - basically the same deal. Not only am I paranoid (we all have our problems) but I also get pretty sick of cars after 3 years which is why I prefer to lease. It's so much easier to turn it in for me than to have to worry about selling it.
> 
> As far as the speed, I would really like to know if it is as fast as my Maxima. I understand it is a completely different car but I'm really interested in the power of it (with the 235 HP engine). I love to drive fast and would really like an M3 but it is just too much money for me now.


let me get this straight... you are paranoid and don't like to drive your nice cars, you don't want to keep it more than 3 years, but you say you love to drive fast. no offense, sounds like you are basically looking for a big, expensive toy. i would skip the ZHP and go to something flashier like others have suggested, e.g. a G35 coupe or 350Z or Mustang or something. bimmers are designed for people who love to drive and appreciate a finely balanced, highly refined machine. if you're just looking to drag race some kids on the block every other weekend and keep it garaged the rest of the time, i would look elsewhere.

p.s. i'd put my money on a ZHP over a '03 Maxima any day.


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## sunilsf (Sep 22, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> I didn't like the G35 6mt sedan's handling as much as my zhp. But the power on the G35 was far more linear and forceful than the anemic pull of my BMW. I don't think I'll ever get used to my BMW having no real power until it's over 4k rpm.
> 
> I know the G35 coupe is a far sharper handler than the sedan (being lower helps immediately) and the addition of an LSD would certainly do wonders in the corners. Add in a 35 HP bump and I'm certain the G35 coupe would pull like a rocket sled when compared to the 3.0 in a BMW.


Yep, I haven't driven the coupe (which should be more entertaining)... but the torque down-low was nice. It was different, as the BMW performs much better at higher RPMs (the G35 didn't feel willing/comfortable past 4800rpms).


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## FAR (Jul 21, 2004)

I test drove the G35 coupe 6MT as I really liked the sexy look, but I was disappointed with the interior quality as well as the back seat room (only capable of accomadating children with very little head room). Then, I test drove the ZHP and I immediately appreciated superior handling, a more quiet cabin with less road noise and vibrations , as well as a more classy interior. That made my decision easier. I opted for the 330i zhp sedan, purchased with no money down and 1.9% financing with monthly payment of 700.
Don't get me wrong, I still like the G35 coupe's look (not the sedan) but 330i ZHP offers so much more..
Good luck.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

Wow, what a great board. I really appreciate the honest (if not brutal) replies  Last year I had considered the 350Z or the G35. Since Nissan service is less than excellent I've decided that I really don't want another one (although the reliabiltiy has been good). Another thing to bear in mind is the 350/G35 share the same engine as my car (tuned with about 25 more HP). I agree that the low end torque is great (too great - LOTS of torque steer on my FWD) and also that it lags in the higher RPMs. I also drove a G35 and it was really no different power wise than the Max.

As dorkus stated I might be better off with just a hot rod but I've been down that road before (with my Ram Air Trans Am). I liked that car, but it was so impractical I just took it for rides on the weekends and let it sit with the cover on in the garage. I hate to admit it (although you have to appreciate my honesty) but I really like the status of the BMW - not to mention the handling, comfort, service, and especially the LOOKS. I also don't think that the paper numbers are everything. I can recall when an M3 (E36?) TOASTED me in a race with my Trans Am. From what I remember the HP was 240 - 260 whereas my T/A was 305 with 320 ft/lbs. of torque.

Like I said, the M3 is really the car I want but I'm thinking I could get 100% of the looks and 70% of the performance on the 330Ci ZHP with a much nicer price tag. Also, it would not need any upgrades (suspension, tires, sway bars, etc.) that I had to do with my Maxima.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

LDV330i said:


> If you are paranoid about dings than the last thing you should do is lease. You may be hit with an excessive wear and tear charge when turn in your car at the end of the lease.


Actually, I was surpirsed on my last lease. They are actually very forgiving and expect "Normal wear and tear". It's not the money that it costs to fix it, but just the fact that my car has been voilated and is no longer in "show room condition". Trust me, I know I'm insane but I can't help it. When I lease my philosophy is "Oh well, it's going back in 3 years". Another big thing is I'm a smoker and won't smoke in owned-new cars. I have no problem doing it in a lease.

Funny, when I sold my T/A the guy who bought it said "My God, I feel like I just walked into a Pontiac showroom!". Yea, I've got problems :dunno:


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## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

We have an '02 Max and yes the engine HP is impressive but it is FWD and that means nasty torque steer when you stand on the gas. But my wife loves it and that's what matters...

The 330 isn't a drag racer by any stretch, but it is the complete package - power, handling, comfort, etc.


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

spta97-

I purchased a silver gray 330Ci ZHP about a month ago and I love it. Comparing it against the G35 with a "butt dyno," the G35 is going to feel faster. In actuality, it probably will be faster, but not by much. The G35 will also handle about as well, but won't feel as good doing it. What I love about the way my car drives is how easy it is to drive it hard. It also lacks that big car feel that even the G35 coupe had.

As far as how the car looks, I wouldn't trade my 330Ci in for anything. I could stare at it for hours. I get compliments almost daily from friends and random people stopping me, asking to check out my car. And for better or worse, the car definitely has the status factor.

For more accurate leasing estimates, you may want to post that question in the dealer section of this forum. With the current rates, I'm sure you could probably get a lease in the ballpark of the price you're looking for, but you'll have to get on it before they end.


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## stylinexpat (May 23, 2004)

*New V Engines on G35*

Most v Engines make their power down Low these days and The BMW Engines make their power or build their power up as they go up past 4000 RPM'S.. The G35 you can launch from 2000 RPMS and it will pull quite hard while the BMW needs to be launched from Around 3500-4000 while feathering and then it will pull hard to redline .. If you keep the RPM'S high enough and shift at redline then the power band will awalys be good as it will stay over 4000 while with the G35 there is no need to make so much noise and attract every officers attention around the city.
1) BMW'S high speed and high RPM'S on the track just like in the Formula 1 Cars
2) G35 great low end Torque for city and highway pull without needing to down-shift

They just worlk differently, my brother has a 350Z and I have the 330ZHP, different cars. He is 21 and I am 33...


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## adc (Apr 1, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> I didn't like the G35 6mt sedan's handling as much as my zhp. But the power on the G35 was far more linear and forceful than the anemic pull of my BMW. I don't think I'll ever get used to my BMW having no real power until it's over 4k rpm.
> 
> I know the G35 coupe is a far sharper handler than the sedan (being lower helps immediately) and the addition of an LSD would certainly do wonders in the corners. Add in a 35 HP bump and I'm certain the G35 coupe would pull like a rocket sled when compared to the 3.0 in a BMW.


First of all, you never know until you actually drive it. Second of all, if all you want is speed, why not get a 350Z Track model. It will be cheaper, lighter, faster and MUCH better handling than the G35.

IMO the G35 is a waste of time. I simply don't get what the advantage might be - unless dealer service departments are much better at Infinity...

As for your bimmer, you could put some 3.23 gears (or higher) in it for about $500 and make it much faster off the line, if that is what you are after.

:dunno:


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

adc said:


> IMO the G35 is a waste of time. I simply don't get what the advantage might be - unless dealer service departments are much better at Infinity...


i don't think so. while i think the 350Z is cool, i would never consider it for myself. the G35 coupe, OTOH, had me drooling the moment it was introduced. i really, really wanted one for a while, until i sat in it at the NY auto show and realized i looked pretty stupid (my friends actually broke out laughing).  but it's a more polished car (at least in image) than the 350Z, roomier and more luxurious w/o giving up too much performance. the 350Z is more "pure" i suppose, while the Infinity tries to play to the upscale crowd... different flavors so to speak.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

adc said:


> First of all, you never know until you actually drive it. Second of all, if all you want is speed, why not get a 350Z Track model. It will be cheaper, lighter, faster and MUCH better handling than the G35.
> 
> IMO the G35 is a waste of time. I simply don't get what the advantage might be - unless dealer service departments are much better at Infinity...
> 
> ...


I don't want just speed. I bought the 3 because the handling was tighter than the G35 sedan and the G35 coupe was incredibly uncomfortable to me (as was the 330ci). But I dislike that my ZHP is rather underpowered for the cash spent (10k difference vis-a-vis a comparably equipped G35 6 MT). The problems with the DSC and the rattling moonroof don't help my view of the car.

I got a notice the other day about robberies in the area near my house. Instead of thinking uh-oh, I paused and thought, "It might be nice if they break in and steal the BMW one day while I'm at work." :rofl:

And it's not off-the-line performance. The 3.0 is just too gutless for me around town. Unless I keep the engine over 4k my car's going nowhere very slowly.


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

Though I did not buy a 330ci ZHP, my original shopping list included the Infiniti G35 coupe, Nissan 350-Z, BMW 325ci, and BMW330ci. At that time was not even considering a sedan. I have always owned nothing but German cars so it was sacrilegious for me to even put Japanese cars in my consideration list. The raw number looked right, both price and performance.

I eliminated the 350-Z because a pure 2 seater as my single car would probably be not too practical. I was also concerned about the cheap interiors and how things would fall apart. I though the G35 coupe would be a practical alternative. Something I just could not overcome was the size of the car. It just did not seem like it would be a very tossable car. I have always like my cars relatively small that I could wear, the one that comes closest to meeting that requirement was my VW Corrado. The other concern was that Infiniti cars have a history of depreciating like there is no tomorrow. The quality of finishes did not help either. So there was nothing that could convince me to abandon my German car creed.

Once I saw pictures of the 330i ZHP introduced at LA Autoshow and then seeing it here at the Houston Autoshow convinced me to give up on the idea of only owning a 2-door car. After test driving the 330i ZHP I knew it was the car I wanted, I do not know why I would have considered anything else. Because last year the ZHP package was only available on the sedan, a 330ci ZHP does not call my garage home.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> "The G35 coupe's new Sport model will be available in an advanced 5-speed automatic transmission or with a close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. The Sport 6MT model receives an additional 15-plus horsepower over automatic-equipped G35 coupe's standard 280 horsepower, bringing its power to the 295-horsepower range (final figures to be released later). "
> 
> Infiniti is also improving the interior on the G35s too.
> 
> You want speed and handling? And reliability? And sexy looks?


I looked at the G35 too. It felt heavy to me, the interior was sort of cheapish, the traction control was intrusive, and the lease payment was pretty much identical to the ZHP because the depreciation was much worse on the G35.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> The 3.0 is just too gutless for me around town. Unless I keep the engine over 4k my car's going nowhere very slowly.


This statement puzzles me. Any 330 will outrun 90% of the cars out there around town. How could it be "gutless?"


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

wag-zhp said:


> If you're really worried about speed, the 330 may not be your best choice. There are several faster cars out there (Mustang, WRX, Neon, etc) but you really have to consider the whole package. None of the bracketed cars above are as refined as the 3 series. You really have to test drive all of them to appreciate what the Bimmer offers.


 :stupid: Well said. I just returned a WRX. With similar tires mounted, the WRX will smoke the ZHP in almost every performance category except top end. But the ZHP is a much more refined all around ride, and if price isn't a factor, a "better" car.

If you want fast, cheap fun, check out the Subaru WRX STi or the Mitsubishi Evolution (around $30K but look out for depreciation). If you want dirt cheap fun and don't care about plowing understeer, check out the Neon SRT (under $20K!).


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## FAR (Jul 21, 2004)

looks like this is turning into 330 vs. G35 forum..


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

kurichan said:


> This statement puzzles me. Any 330 will outrun 90% of the cars out there around town. How could it be "gutless?"


I find it gutless. So sue me.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

kurichan said:


> :stupid: Well said. I just returned a WRX. With similar tires mounted, the WRX will smoke the ZHP in almost every performance category except top end. But the ZHP is a much more refined all around ride, and if price isn't a factor, a "better" car.
> 
> If you want fast, cheap fun, check out the Subaru WRX STi or the Mitsubishi Evolution (around $30K but look out for depreciation). If you want dirt cheap fun and don't care about plowing understeer, check out the Neon SRT (under $20K!).


I WISH that those cars were available when I was in my early 20's . I've owned powerful cars (the T/A stands out most) in the past and realized that without control power is nothing. That's why I always liked the BMWs. I see nothing wrong with the cars mentioned above but I don't think they rank very high as far as status. With the money I'd be spending on the 330ZHP I'm sure I could get a car that is like 2x faster but without all the other amenities that BMW is known for. I want to be able to pick up people from work in a car that is more refined and when I see someone in a BMW I'm just like "Wow".

My Maxima handles really well now (after lowering springs, performance struts, and F/R sway bars) but the ride has suffered accordingly. The BMWs always seemed to handle very well while maintaining a comfortable ride and being one of the most amazing looking cars on the road. Another demon of mine is that it seems that I would be giving up some things I've gotten used to if I get the 330Ci:

Leather Seats (not clear if the ZHP package will allow this)
Heated Steering wheel (this is SUCH a cool feature on my Maxima!)
LSD (again, not sure if the ZHP has this)
HP & Torque

I've gotta go test drive one and see. I test drove it years ago and it seemed underpowered (although the handling was amazing). I would just hate to get it and miss the power of my Max while increasing my monthly payment. Although, if the top end is better I would be all over that (I've been known to to 100+ MPH on the highway from time to time :angel: )


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## RSPDiver (Jul 14, 2004)

You can get leather with the ZHP package. There is no LSD available from BMW, but there are aftermarket ones. I don't think you will be missing HP & torque, at all. This car scoots very well. Look at the C&D stats from their test. Very impressive, and completely in line with the G35. It's all in the gearing.

Oh, and FWIW, the G35 isn't going to get an all new interior. They are tossing a brushed aluminum plate over the center stack and freshening up some other touch points. Basicly, it will look the same.
http://mms.businesswire.com/bwapps/mediaserver/ViewMedia?mgid=22873&vid=5


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> I see nothing wrong with the cars mentioned above but I don't think they rank very high as far as status. With the money I'd be spending on the 330ZHP I'm sure I could get a car that is like 2x faster but without all the other amenities that BMW is known for. I want to be able to pick up people from work in a car that is more refined and when I see someone in a BMW I'm just like "Wow".


well, if that's where you're coming from, a BMW is your ticket. at this price point, there isn't much that can touch it image-wise. ironically, i'm just the opposite of you when it comes to this stuff - i bought a BMW *despite* the yuppie uppity image, which i can't stand. i really hate being thought of as "the dude in a bimmer," it mortifies me. i'm younger than you too.



> My Maxima handles really well now (after lowering springs, performance struts, and F/R sway bars) but the ride has suffered accordingly. The BMWs always seemed to handle very well while maintaining a comfortable ride and being one of the most amazing looking cars on the road.


won't argue with you there. it's the perfect balance of everything that is so great about these cars... and EVERYONE loves them. my mom finds it classy and comfortable, my dad thinks it's handsome, sporty, and safe, my brother is addicted to the driving feel, my gf thinks it's the perfect car in almost every way. and i don't think it's so bad either.  i just wish now that i had had money for a 330i, as there are a lot of little bits and pieces of trim on the 325i that aren't as nice (black plastic vs. chrome)... but that doesn't affect how the car works or handles of course.



> I've gotta go test drive one and see. I test drove it years ago and it seemed underpowered (although the handling was amazing).


yeah, just go test drive it already. i didn't start posting here til i had driven a bmw on at least 2 occassions - then i acutally had some impressions to work with when discussing the car. if you are going to be fretting over power all the time, you will never be happy with a BMW as there will always be other cars from the japanese with much more bhp out there. if you don't fall in love with the ZHP on your first test drive, i would say don't get it, and stick to the japanese sedans with the great motors. e.g. if you don't like the G35 and are used to the FWD maxima, check out the Acura TL 6MT - monstor motor, brembo brakes, great interior, and well under $40k w/nav and the works. it will just torque steer like crazy, but you will be able to launch yourself like a rocket w/o much effort. it's also a much easier car to shift than the ZHP, altho there are modifications to the bmw clutch you can make to improve matters.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

So without the LSD does the back end stay put when it's wet? The brochure said it had Dynamic Stability Control and all season traction - what's that? I've found that the information BMW offers does not really tell me what I need to know.

Also, with the leather I thought it was only part of the preimum package? Can it be ordered separately? I do not want the wood interrior so if it has to come with that if I get the leather I'll deal with the cloth.

Thanks..


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> Also, with the leather I thought it was only part of the preimum package? Can it be ordered separately? I do not want the wood interrior so if it has to come with that if I get the leather I'll deal with the cloth.


premium package normally comes with leather but on ZHP it leaves the seats Alcantra unless you specifically order leather from the factory. you will never get wood trim on a ZHP, unless you specifically order that as well. if i were getting a ZHP i would most definitely stick to the Alcantra, it's really nice and much grippier/sportier than leather (except maybe the M leather seats which are sweet). the only thing i see bad about it is the alcantra on the steering wheel, which wears rather quickly, but you could order the M leather steering wheel instead.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

dorkus said:


> well, if that's where you're coming from, a BMW is your ticket. at this price point, there isn't much that can touch it image-wise. ironically, i'm just the opposite of you when it comes to this stuff - i bought a BMW *despite* the yuppie uppity image, which i can't stand. i really hate being thought of as "the dude in a bimmer," it mortifies me. i'm younger than you too.
> 
> won't argue with you there. it's the perfect balance of everything that is so great about these cars... and EVERYONE loves them. my mom finds it classy and comfortable, my dad thinks it's handsome, sporty, and safe, my brother is addicted to the driving feel, my gf thinks it's the perfect car in almost every way. and i don't think it's so bad either.  i just wish now that i had had money for a 330i, as there are a lot of little bits and pieces of trim on the 325i that aren't as nice (black plastic vs. chrome)... but that doesn't affect how the car works or handles of course.
> 
> yeah, just go test drive it already. i didn't start posting here til i had driven a bmw on at least 2 occassions - then i acutally had some impressions to work with when discussing the car. if you are going to be fretting over power all the time, you will never be happy with a BMW as there will always be other cars from the japanese with much more bhp out there. if you don't fall in love with the ZHP on your first test drive, i would say don't get it, and stick to the japanese sedans with the great motors. e.g. if you don't like the G35 and are used to the FWD maxima, check out the Acura TL 6MT - monstor motor, brembo brakes, great interior, and well under $40k w/nav and the works. it will just torque steer like crazy, but you will be able to launch yourself like a rocket w/o much effort. it's also a much easier car to shift than the ZHP, altho there are modifications to the bmw clutch you can make to improve matters.


I agree with everything you say here. I think I'm gonna test drive it this weekend. I'm scared too because I seldom come out of a dealer empty handed  I remember when i was looking at the Durango. I was able to rent one on a trip to San Francisco where I was meeting up with my g/f. I came home 3 days before she did and when she arrived home I already had my new Durango in the driveway :rofl:

My biggest fear is that I won't be able to get a reasonable price for my Maxima. The thing is cherry with only like 4,300 miles but the resale is notoriously low for these things. The online blue books call for $21,000 for the car but I'm worried I won't get close to that.


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## Roadhawk (May 21, 2004)

spta97 said:


> My biggest fear is that I won't be able to get a reasonable price for my Maxima. The thing is cherry with only like 4,300 miles but the resale is notoriously low for these things. The online blue books call for $21,000 for the car but I'm worried I won't get close to that.


Well - you could just keep the Maxima....its not a bad car - and seems like you've addressed some of its (handling) shortcommings)....

Sure BMW is better car all around - the driving experience and pleasure is certainly better - and I don't think you'll miss any power difference - slight anyway...different...but 330, particualry with ZHP, is really no slower and in fact its easier to drive quickly - so in real world - day to day - you will be able to drive quicker, more spirited and enjoy it more.

I would also chack out the RX-8. Sure - even less torque - but on par with (or perhaps even slightly exeeds) 3 series in terms of handling dynamics and driving pleasure (depends on your need for trunk space (and 5th passenger)....G35 coup has same (trunk) limitation...3 series - while not a huge trunk - is still light years more generous - even in the coup.

I don't see an Acura TL as giving you much more then your current Maxima (front drive really does suck for a sports car - for the most part)....still - with such low milage as you have...may want to just be patient and many new interesting cars should be comming out soon - including the Audi S3 - which should be a hoot...depends what your after really....even the VW R32 might be an option..seems like great fun! I also would check out the Volvo S40/V50 (latter is wagon version)..yeah its basicaly FWD - but drives much better (smaller/sportier) then the TL (and its trunk and interior room is quite generous). Of courser I don't think you can go wrong with the Bimmer - if you really must have it...but it is not cheap and it is perhaps not the most powerful car for the $$$ - balance and handling dynamics and driving pleasure are certainly there. And - I don't know - depending on your preference (and if re-sale is a consideration) you may want to wait till the new (e90?) model 3 comes out....


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

spta97 said:


> So without the LSD does the back end stay put when it's wet? The brochure said it had Dynamic Stability Control and all season traction - what's that? I've found that the information BMW offers does not really tell me what I need to know.


DSC is not a replacement for LSD. DSC is an annoying computer that retards handling and power.



> Also, with the leather I thought it was only part of the preimum package? Can it be ordered separately? I do not want the wood interrior so if it has to come with that if I get the leather I'll deal with the cloth.
> 
> Thanks..


With a ZHP you can get the cloth suede stuff or order leather for another $1400. I got leather on mine. And no it's not part of the premium package.

Half the ZHPs on lots have leather so don't worry about a special order for leather if you want a 2004.


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> My biggest fear is that I won't be able to get a reasonable price for my Maxima. The thing is cherry with only like 4,300 miles but the resale is notoriously low for these things. The online blue books call for $21,000 for the car but I'm worried I won't get close to that.


definitely go private party, not trade in. you will probably be able to do pretty well if you put up a nice ad and stay patient.

when you go visit the dealer, just be absolutely clear with yourself the purpose of your visit beforehand (just looking, cross-shopping, bargaining, buying), then make your intent clear to the dealer. if you go in wishy-washy you could end up making a bad impulse decision or annoying the dealer. i went on at least 7 or 8 test drives of many different cars over the course of a few years before i finally bought my 325i.



Roadhawk said:


> I would also chack out the RX-8.


i think he's looking for more image and prestige than a mazda. the RX-8 is a good enthusiast car, but the interior is cramped and it doesn't have the luxury marquee of a BMW.

Acura TL is definitely limited by FWD, but it might handle better than his Maxima. i would expect Honda to make some suspension improvements soon that will address some handling concerns some are having as well

Audi 3 - a ways off, looks a tad small, and it might be a little cheaped out here and there given its base price is under $25k. i forget what the most powerful engine is (a turbo 5?) but it may not be available off the bat in the US. definitely get Quattro if you are going that route, it'll stick to the road a lot better.



> I also would check out the Volvo S40/V50 (latter is wagon version)..yeah its basicaly FWD - but drives much better (smaller/sportier)


 :thumbdwn: test drove both the S40 base and T5 models. very underwhelming. steering was overboosted and didn't have much feel, acceleration was pretty good on the T5 but throttle response is not nearly as linear as the BMW I-6. brakes were ok but again not as good as BMW, and body motions are not nearly as well controlled. the ride was not as well damped yet handling was looser. even my non-enthusiast brother thought it was very ho-hum. i actually much prefer the handling and ride of the Acura TSX, which is more spirited (but still feels like a FWD car). the Volvo does have the "european firmness" feel but it is not nearly as refined as a 3-series (you're basically riding on a Mazda 3/Ford Focus platform after all), and the interior feels very claustraphobic even though it's about as roomy as a 3. also falls short in the image/prestige area which spta97 thinks is very important. it's heavily discounted right now (you can get a loaded T-5 for around $30k), and for good reason.


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

blueguydotcom said:


> I find it gutless. So sue me.


It's not a challenge. Just trying to understand why you feel it's gutless. Like I said, I'm puzzled. Could you just expand a little on why/how it's gutless?


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## LDV330i (May 24, 2003)

spta97 said:


> That's what the dealer said. Although they said if it came without the Michelin Pilots they would switch it out so it had them upon delivery. The two tires have VERY different tread - the pilots are obviously aimed toward peformance and the others all season. Since I have an Explorer 4x4 I'm not worried about snow traction. Others may feel different depending on their needs.


 The look of the tread does not make the Bridgestone RE-040's all season tires.  :dunno: Both OEM tires, the Michelin Pilots and the Bridgestone RE-040, are Ultra High Performance tires. Here is Tire Rack's description of the Bridgestone RE-040:

_*The Potenza RE040 is an Ultra High Performance Summer Original Equipment tire designed to complement the performance of sports coupes and sports cars including the Acura NSX, Audi TT, BMW 3-Series, Lexus SC430, Nissan 350Z and Toyota MR2. The Potenza RE040 was developed to provide good traction along with responsive and predictable dry and wet road handling. It is not intended to be driven in the snow.*_


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## 330soon2b (May 30, 2004)

I have a black leather interior. I am happy with the choice. I traded in a 04 TL. The engine was amazing which is par for the course with Honda, but the fit and finish problems were too much to overcome for a $35k car. Handling, fit and finish, paint quality, braking, driving enjoyment all go to the bmw. The exhaust note of the ZHP, the lowered suspension, and alcantara interior pieces set the car apart from a lot of cars on the road. I need four doors and believe it or not the car sits four comfortably. I took folks to lunch the other day and they all said afterwards that they were very comfortable. I like the instruments and the feel of the turn signals and buttons. Very nice feedback. I have Pilots. My only complaints are that the engine could have more low end and the shifter could be a less difficult to use. I miss gears more frequently than I would expect and I don't like being caught at the wrong rpms and not being able to get out of danger quickly. These are nits, however. The car is amazing to drive, draws a lot of attention (almost too much), and will never feel under powered on the highway (at the stop light maybe, but never on the highway).


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

RSPDiver said:


> Beating up that car like that on the test drive isn't such a good idea. I take it this was a new car, not a pre-owned? You say you pulled off the lot and redlined 1st and 2nd. Just so you know, break-in on these cars is 1200 miles. That may be way over the safe line, but you absolutely MUST let the oil (not the coolant water) heat up before doing anything boneheaded. I hope there was no excessive wear done to that car. These aren't Kia Spectras, and really shouldn't be treated as such. If I sound harsh, it's because some other unknowing consumer my buy that car and get a $40K + car that has been beaten up on test drives. As dorkus said, not cool.
> 
> As far as your performance observations, it opens up quite a bit even toward the end of break-in, provided it isn't driven like it's running from the cops all the time. I think you would be happy with the performance after such time, expecially in it's natural environment: sporting romps through corners and sweepers. Not drag racing. There are many more cars much better suited for drag racing, and if the straight line performance is that important, perhaps you should look at other cars.
> 
> ...


Point taken. However, I hate to break it to you but ALL cars get beat on at some point. I've worked and known people who worked at dealerships and it happens all the time from the people who work there. One of the prep-mechanics would say "If it's not smoking after a test drive you didn't drive it right". I refuse to belive that driving a car hard for 1 mile would have such a lasting effect and turn a good engine into a bad one. I also feel no responsiblilty to purchase an automobile that does not meet my requirements because I took it up to 6500 RPM. If I had to buy every car I did that to I would be broke :rofl:


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

LDV330i said:


> The look of the tread does not make the Bridgestone RE-040's all season tires.  :dunno: Both OEM tires, the Michelin Pilots and the Bridgestone RE-040, are Ultra High Performance tires. Here is Tire Rack's description of the Bridgestone RE-040:
> 
> _*The Potenza RE040 is an Ultra High Performance Summer Original Equipment tire designed to complement the performance of sports coupes and sports cars including the Acura NSX, Audi TT, BMW 3-Series, Lexus SC430, Nissan 350Z and Toyota MR2. The Potenza RE040 was developed to provide good traction along with responsive and predictable dry and wet road handling. It is not intended to be driven in the snow.*_


It could have been my imagination, but it felt like the Pilots were more sure-footed. Over at my Maxima board people rave them up and down as well (they are the best tire in the non-common stock size). What I meant by the tread is they looked like performance tires that I've seen before (with the strip in the middle and the v-grooves going out the side. The Bridgestones had more of that criss-cross pattern that looked more like all-season tires I've seen in the past. I'd be curious to see which people like better but I didn't know they were an ultra high performance tire - thanks.

I just checked at tire rack and the Pilots are rated "Max Performance" which is more geared toward performance than "Ultra". The Bridgestone Pole Position are rated "Max Performance" as well and share the same type of tread as the Pilots. Check it out:








- Pilots - "Max"








- S03 Pole Position - "Max"








- RE040 - "Ultra"

That's the difference I was talking about.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

330soon2b said:


> ...and will never feel under powered on the highway (at the stop light maybe, but never on the highway).


THAT I could deal with. I've seen some 330s tear up the highway so it seems that they are more high-speed cars rather than off the line. Again, on a test drive it's hard to tell. When / if I sell my Maxima and am ready to deal I think I'll ask them if I can take it up on the highway to see how it performs.


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> I hear you about the test drive. But that is real world driving for me that I would subject the car to (not daily, but occasionaly). If I don't know how a car is going to perform and where it's limits are I cannot purchase it.


i hear you. i myself am guilty of gunning some test drive cars before, so i'm not claiming to be a saint. one time i drove a Acura TL Type-S with the automatic in manual mode. i forgot to shift and hit 7000rpm on a highway on-ramp. this was before i knew about proper break-in procedure for a new car though.

i think the larger issue beyond wear and tear on the test drive car is safety and responsibility. if you drive your own car like a manaic and you're the only one in it, fine. (well, not really - you could kill someone else...). but when you take a car you don't own for a drive, with a person (dealer) sitting with you, i just think it wouldn't hurt to be a little less reckless.

btw, this is why i prefer not to buy a new car that's been sitting on the lot for a while or has more than 10 miles on the odometer. my 325i was delivered to the dealer a week before i wound up buying it and had only 6 miles since leaving the Munich production line. 



> The one thing I really need is to take this thing on the highway. It's hard to tell how a car is under 50 MPH when most of my driving is around 70 - 80. Most of the dealerships I've dealt with in the past have a "course" that they take you around (usually back road residential neighborhoods).


yeah, i hate that crap. i tried to drive a mazda3 and the dealer didn't want to get plates and go with me so he told me to drive around a crowded parking lot. i did a few k-turns, came back, and told him i wasn't going to waste any more time there.



> I've seen some 330s tear up the highway so it seems that they are more high-speed cars rather than off the line.


i only have a lowly 325i with a slushbox, but i think the general "family character" is the same. it's a pretty weak car in the city (at least compared to something like a G35) and doesn't come alive until you hit some higher speed (> 40mph) roads... THEN its juices really start to flow. i was stuck in a lot of traffic the other day and i felt like my car was just suffering, but then i hit the highway and got in the passing lane, hit some off-ramps and back roads at a brisk pace and it was like a totally different car... much more than most other cars, everything about it is tuned to fast-paced, enthusiastic driving. (they don't call it the Ultimate Driving Machine for nothing. )

by the time i got near my house i was grinning from ear to ear, and commented to my gf that the car really likes to and needs to be driven fast. she rolled her eyes and asked how the hell i knew what the car liked or didn't like, but it's true!  if you are doing mostly city driving there are much better cars, but on fast windy roads or open highways a 3-series (even my 325i) is just smooth as butter. :thumbup:


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

p.s. probably my favorite thing about driving the 3 is the way the chassis and suspension are tuned to squat rather than dive when braking. i just learned about this feature recently and it explains why no other car i've driven (no, i haven't driven a porsche or ferrari) has the feeling of absolute stability and control when decellerating i experience with the 3. and the brakes themselves aren't too shabby either. for me the ability to stop is every bit as important as the ability to go fast.


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> One of the prep-mechanics would say "If it's not smoking after a test drive you didn't drive it right".


maybe that works for a Ford Mustang with a lo-tech big block V8, but it's hardly how BMWs were designed to be broken in. besides, i'd say at least half of the mechanics who work at those dealerships don't know squat anyway. just look at how so many people on this board can't seem to get their dealers to understand, much less fix, a problem. and this is at BMW DEALERS, we're not talking Hyundai or Saturn here.



> I refuse to belive that driving a car hard for 1 mile would have such a lasting effect and turn a good engine into a bad one. I also feel no responsiblilty to purchase an automobile that does not meet my requirements because I took it up to 6500 RPM.


we're not saying you have to buy it. we're just saying it would be better if people (not just you) were a little more thoughtful and considerate before abusing property that isn't theirs (yet).

and yes, 1 mile of hard driving may not permanently damage it, but if 20 people like you come in one week and drive it 20 miles like that, and without a proper warm-up to boot, THAT will do some long-term damage to the engine. you may not feel it until later in the car's life but it'll be there. i would never buy a BMW that's been used extensively for test drives.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

dorkus said:


> i hear you. i myself am guilty of gunning some test drive cars before, so i'm not claiming to be a saint. one time i drove a Acura TL Type-S with the automatic in manual mode. i forgot to shift and hit 7000rpm on a highway on-ramp. this was before i knew about proper break-in procedure for a new car though.
> :


I'm glad to see I'm in good company 



dorkus said:


> i think the larger issue beyond wear and tear on the test drive car is safety and responsibility. if you drive your own car like a manaic and you're the only one in it, fine. (well, not really - you could kill someone else...). but when you take a car you don't own for a drive, with a person (dealer) sitting with you, i just think it wouldn't hurt to be a little less reckless.
> :


I can agree with that. I must admit, I love to drive fast. However, I don't want people to get the impression that I was driving like a maniac willy-nilly down a local road. I just took a corner too hard and the tires screeched. It's not like I kicked out the back end and started doing 360s.



dorkus said:


> btw, this is why i prefer not to buy a new car that's been sitting on the lot for a while or has more than 10 miles on the odometer. my 325i was delivered to the dealer a week before i wound up buying it and had only 6 miles since leaving the Munich production line.


Agreed!



dorkus said:


> yeah, i hate that crap. i tried to drive a mazda3 and the dealer didn't want to get plates and go with me so he told me to drive around a crowded parking lot. i did a few k-turns, came back, and told him i wasn't going to waste any more time there.


How many cars have you test driven???!?!?!?



dorkus said:


> i only have a lowly 325i with a slushbox, but i think the general "family character" is the same. it's a pretty weak car in the city (at least compared to something like a G35) and doesn't come alive until you hit some higher speed (> 40mph) roads... THEN its juices really start to flow. i was stuck in a lot of traffic the other day and i felt like my car was just suffering, but then i hit the highway and got in the passing lane, hit some off-ramps and back roads at a brisk pace and it was like a totally different car... much more than most other cars, everything about it is tuned to fast-paced, enthusiastic driving. (they don't call it the Ultimate Driving Machine for nothing. )


See, that's exactly the opposite of my Maxima. Up to 100 it is really fast but after that the car doesn't seem to have as much power or control (although better with my Tien lowering springs and KYB struts). I remember one time years ago (prepare for flames) when I was racing a 330 (could have been a 325) on the highway in my Trans Am. We were doing about 120 and this guy was keeping up and had more control than I did. I was very impressed and disgusted with the "fat girl on a moped" handling of my T/A.



dorkus said:


> by the time i got near my house i was grinning from ear to ear, and commented to my gf that the car really likes to and needs to be driven fast. she rolled her eyes and asked how the hell i knew what the car liked or didn't like, but it's true!  if you are doing mostly city driving there are much better cars, but on fast windy roads or open highways a 3-series (even my 325i) is just smooth as butter. :thumbup:


Women


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

dorkus said:


> p.s. probably my favorite thing about driving the 3 is the way the chassis and suspension are tuned to squat rather than dive when braking. i just learned about this feature recently and it explains why no other car i've driven (no, i haven't driven a porsche or ferrari) has the feeling of absolute stability and control when decellerating i experience with the 3. and the brakes themselves aren't too shabby either. for me the ability to stop is every bit as important as the ability to go fast.


That's awesome. Do you have any links describing it? The 330 felt very planted (almost like it was very heavy) and was noticeable as soon as I pulled out of the lot. The funny thing I've noticed as other cars get tighter suspensions (which handle better) the firmness wreaks havoc on bumpy roads. In my T/A one time going over the Whitestone bridge it hit some ripples in the pavement. The car literally launched into the next lane. I mean it was in one lane, hit the bumps, then was in the next lane. I didn't even turn or anything it just jumped. Talk about scary :yikes:


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## dorkus (Sep 4, 2003)

spta97 said:


> How many cars have you test driven???!?!?!?


umm.. a bunch? :eeps: i started senior year with a few cars, which is when i fell in love with a '00 323ci (i actually hated bimmers because of their yuppie materialistic image unti then). since then i test drove a few cars for friends, rented some nice cars (325i, Saab 9-5, Infinity Q45)... then i moved out of NYC to Jersey and was able to pick up my first car, so i drove a few more. was going to go cheap (Toyota Corolla) but i'm glad i came back around to the 3. 



> See, that's exactly the opposite of my Maxima. Up to 100 it is really fast but after that the car doesn't seem to have as much power or control (although better with my Tien lowering springs and KYB struts).


well, i was thinking more > 40mph, not > 100mph (never gone that fast), but i'm sure the ZHP will be just fine at 120mph+, should you ever "need" to go that fast.



> Women


actually, when i test drove that 323ci, my gf came along and thought it was the most perfect car ever, and since then she's always wanted me to get a bimmer, so we should all be thanking her for pushing me in the right direction.  when i rented a 325i last year she was smiling so much the whole time her face was sore by the time i returned the car.


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## spta97 (Aug 18, 2004)

dorkus said:


> actually, when i test drove that 323ci, my gf came along and thought it was the most perfect car ever, and since then she's always wanted me to get a bimmer, so we should all be thanking her for pushing me in the right direction.  when i rented a 325i last year she was smiling so much the whole time her face was sore by the time i returned the car.


It's amazing the effect the BMWs have on women. I've showed the picture of the 330Ci ZHP to several people to get some opinions and the guys I've spoken to are like "Nice car", the women all said "Oh my GOD!!! It's gorgeous!!!" After all, isn't that what it's all about? :thumbup:


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## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

Just wait until you get the car. :thumbup:


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