# European Grand Prix 2005*****SPOILER*****



## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Thought I'd better get this started before someone gets mad at me for not doing so.

As I said in the Monaco thread, I look for Nick to go good things this time. He's due for a win, and I think his recent driving may reflect displeasure over Mawk's remawks.

Remember, qualifying is on Saturday only this time. (Who knows about next time?)


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Friday practice 2 results:

01 A. Wurz McLaren 1:30.623
02 R. Zonta Toyota 1:30.630
03 N. Heidfeld Williams 1:31.813
04 JP. Montoya McLaren 1:31.841
05 K. Räikkönen McLaren 1:31.870 
06 M. Webber Williams 1:32.088 
07 R. Barrichello Ferrari 1:32.143
08 F. Alonso Renault 1:32.335
09 G. Fisichella Renault 1:32.842
10 R. Schumacher Toyota 1:33.098
11 J. Trulli Toyota 1:33.168
12 C. Klien Red Bull 1:33.174
13 M. Schumacher Ferrari 1:33.242
14 D. Coulthard Red Bull 1:33.430
15 T. Sato BAR 1:33.514
16 J. Button BAR 1:33.753
17 F. Montagny Jordan 1:34.090
18 F. Massa Sauber 1:34.274
19 J. Villeneuve Sauber 1:34.645
20 T. Monteiro Jordan 1:34.702
21 V. Liuzzi Red Bull 1:34.842
22 C. Albers Minardi 1:35.311
23 P. Friesacher Minardi 1:35.791
24 N. Karthikeyan Jordan 1:36.702 

McLaren and Williams continue looking good...so far.:thumbup:


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## KU Ned (Apr 23, 2003)

berford said:


> Friday practice 2 results:
> 
> 01 A. Wurz McLaren 1:30.623
> 02 R. Zonta Toyota 1:30.630
> ...


I think McLaren was playing with everyone. Wurz appeared to run out for the last run just to hit the fast lap. I was excited that Heidfeld was at the top of the leader board until he stalled entering the pits. I hope he was out of gas or something simple but they had the car up on blocks just as the broadcast ended.

I am having a blast watching F1 with my 2-year old boy this year. Everytime they switch to on car camera that shows the cockpit he lifts his arms and pretends to steer with the driver. He knows Michael, Kimi, Juan Pablo and Mark Webber when he sees them and knows what cars they drive. I think I am creating a monster.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

KU Ned said:


> I am having a blast watching F1 with my 2-year old boy this year. Everytime they switch to on car camera that shows the cockpit he lifts his arms and pretends to steer with the driver. He knows Michael, Kimi, Juan Pablo and Mark Webber when he sees them and knows what cars they drive. I think I am creating a monster.


Cool. Perhaps you're creating an F1 driver.


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## KU Ned (Apr 23, 2003)

berford said:


> Cool. Perhaps you're creating an F1 driver.


Alot of fathers have rituals when they get home from work. Mine is that Evan runs up to me saying "drive, drive, drive the B". I then take him to the garage and put him in the driver's seat of my car and let him play like he is driving. He will literally do it for an hour if I let him. I now trick him to get him out by asking if he wants to get out of the car like a race car driver. I take him out through the window, briefly sit him on the window frame and have him shake his fists.

Our friends can not believe how long he will pretend to drive anything with a steering wheel. I would love to have him get into carting and driving someday but refuse to push him in to it like the parents on that Discovery Channel documentary.

Not to hijack the thread too much, I can't wait for the European GP this weekend. I think BMW and Mercedes will be strong.


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

KU Ned said:


> I would love to have him get into carting and driving someday but refuse to push him in to it like the parents on that Discovery Channel documentary.


If he's that into cars, there will be no pushing involved, he'll love it! All you have to do is give him the opportunity. :thumbup:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> If he's that into cars, there will be no pushing involved, he'll love it! All you have to do is give him the opportunity. :thumbup:


Heifeld P1, Webber P3...just right.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

berford said:


> Thought I'd better get this started before someone gets mad at me for not doing so.
> 
> As I said in the Monaco thread, I look for Nick to go good things this time. He's due for a win, and I think his recent driving may reflect displeasure over Mawk's remawks.
> 
> Remember, qualifying is on Saturday only this time. (Who knows about next time?)


Heidfeld, Raikonnen, Webber...

Btw, What did Webber say?


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

Who wants to bet that Williams is on lower fuel load than McLaren? :eeps:


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

I'll take that bet!! How much do you want to wager?? :dunno: 

Nicky boy knows the track as good as me (**ahem*** ehh.. from Forza Motorsports, only on X-Box  )


I have confidence in my boyz


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

F1Crazy said:


> Who wants to bet that Williams is on lower fuel load than McLaren? :eeps:


I would predict there about 6-8 laps more in the Merc-McLaren (might even be 10).

Notice Kimi's imperceptable smirk in the post qualifying interviews when discussing fuel loads.

I guess we will see in the morning.

Good job by BMW/W however and good for Nick at his home race - putting the Shumi Bros to the back pages................and rightfully making his Aussie mate a tad nervous about his ride next year.


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## j2 (Jun 13, 2003)

Go Heidfeld!! 

Is it just me, or is Webber an :asshole: ?


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

JG said:


> I would predict there about 6-8 laps more in the Merc-McLaren (might even be 10).
> 
> Notice Kimi's imperceptable smirk in the post qualifying interviews when discussing fuel loads.
> 
> ...


This new qualy format certainly puts the intrigue back in before the race. I don't think Montoya would be8 tenths back if Kimi was that heavy with fuel. I think he's lighter than Montoya and not that far off the 2 Williams. Of course that's a lot of wishful fan thinking sentiment I know.


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

WILLIA///M said:


> This new qualy format certainly puts the intrigue back in before the race. I don't think Montoya would be8 tenths back if Kimi was that heavy with fuel. I think he's lighter than Montoya and not that far off the 2 Williams. Of course that's a lot of wishful fan thinking sentiment I know.


Montoya to Kimi is somewhat like Fisichella to Alonso. They have not really been in the same ballpark in qualifying - so who knows (you may be right however).

Montoya is somewhat like Jaques and Webber - under performing their team mates this year - so 1/2 second is not surprising.

The tires today in blistering heat may be the difference. Race day is supposed to be cooler.

Last week showed what a huge difference the chassis makes using the same manufacturer's tires. The Renault rear tire wear was pathetic in Monaco.

I agree the single lap qualy is interesting because of strategies - unlike the previous format where the initial session was on light fuel - which tended to indicate the true speed of the cars.

I still think Kimi will dominate based on the last few weeks and practise times.

I am hoping BMW does well; but I get the feeling they are not quite there yet. Alonso may surprise if the Renault is heavy with fuel and if they get their traditional quick jump at the start.

Nice to see the Ferrari furled eyebrows after dominating for so long..........

Just a few hours to go......................


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Settling in here awaiting the start with the bacon and eggs... :thumbup:


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

47 laps to go .... Man!! That Rikkonen sure is fast!! :doh: 

I need him to blow his engine or something...


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

How about Coulthard? :thumbup:


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Wooohooo!!!! I got what I wished for!!! w/ 29 laps to go!! :thumbup: :neener: :bow: :hi: :beerchug: :bustingup

Here is Rikkonen: "...lah..lah..lah... lah.... lah.... lah... lah... lah.. OOOPPPSS!!!!!.."


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

That tire isn't looking good...


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## jdeday (Jan 8, 2005)

I think Rikkonen has this one won! What did BMW/Williams choose 3 stops?


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Bye bye!!!  

Man!!! That was dramatic!! Ron Dennis must be pissed!! :eeps:


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## jdeday (Jan 8, 2005)

I spoke too soon!


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

jdeday said:


> I think Rikkonen has this one won! What did BMW/Williams choose 3 stops?


Oh really!!??  

Ain't over 'till the fat lady sings.... 

Baumann should be happy.... Ruben on podium 

Upside, Mercedes does not finish over BMW 

Downside... I've gotta listen to that damn French national anthen.... again...


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

A good race for Williams and Nick Heidfeld. The second race in a row on the podium for him. 

Looking forward to Canada!


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Too bad for Kimi. He was driving the heck out of that flat spotted tire. Williams is showing signs of life but I'd like to know what happened to Webber. It looked like he just went straight and t-boned Montoya. Was someone on his right keeping him from turning for the corner?


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

WILLIA///M said:


> Too bad for Kimi. He was driving the heck out of that flat spotted tire. Williams is showing signs of life but I'd like to know what happened to Webber. It looked like he just went straight and t-boned Montoya. Was someone on his right keeping him from turning for the corner?


I think Trulli was to his right but I think he could have made an effort to turn away from Montoya :thumbdwn: It's starting to look like he could be the odd man out if Jenson Buttons does indeed jump over to Williams next year. 3 podiums for Heidfeld to only one for him :eeps: 
Anyway as for Kimi, looking back, the best move for him would've been to pit and replace the bad tire. At least that way he might have still had a shot at finishing in the top three. That was crazy the way the car was shaking. If my car was shaking like that I wouldn't drive faster than 30mph and he was still flooring it. It was only a matter of time before something gave and it did. He's fortunate he was able to walk away from that. See how close he was to hitting the BAR Honda (Buttons?) car? :tsk:


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Two philosophies of racing:

1) If you don;t finis, you can't win.

2) If you can't win, why finish.

Normally attributed to:

1) Brits

2) Scandinavians.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

jcatral14 said:


> I think Trulli was to his right but I think he could have made an effort to turn away from Montoya :thumbdwn: It's starting to look like he could be the odd man out if Jenson Buttons does indeed jump over to Williams next year. 3 podiums for Heidfeld to only one for him :eeps:
> Anyway as for Kimi, looking back, the best move for him would've been to pit and replace the bad tire. At least that way he might have still had a shot at finishing in the top three. That was crazy the way the car was shaking. If my car was shaking like that I wouldn't drive faster than 30mph and he was still flooring it. It was only a matter of time before something gave and it did. He's fortunate he was able to walk away from that. See how close he was to hitting the BAR Honda (Buttons?) car? :tsk:


Could be, but was it for sure the tire? If a suspension component was the problem there was not much choice other than to hope it broke after the checkered flag.  Seems like other times I've seen tires go bad there is not that side to side wobble I seem to recall seeing...? :dunno:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

I thought Kimi might make it, but when they were approaching that lapped traffic on the last lap... it seemed to me he might try to take the braking deeper than he was previously because of Alonso being so close. 

Now, I'm not sure if he did, but it seemed like Kimi took it deeper into the braking zone than before and BOOM. 

Montoya's tire also looked a little square, but nothing like Kimi's. :wow:


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I'm not sure a flat spotted tire can simply be changed. In the end it was a dangerous situation, but how and when do you make that call? The change has to be justified later to Charlie Whiting it must be for safety reasons. As the speed guys said, Kimi created his own problem with a huge flat spot.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

I hate the new no tire change rule in F1. :thumbdwn:


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Artslinger said:


> I hate the new no tire change rule in F1. :thumbdwn:


Agreed and the engine rule is stupid too.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

1) Yes, it was teh tire that was causing the vibration. But so much, that you cuold see the flew in other nerby parts of the car.

2) I thought you had one tire that could be changed pretty much as you wished? But it still would have put him down the finishing order, they gambled and lost.


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

Classic racing: Pit change tire 2nd or 3rd maybe or stay in the game and risk it all. That is why we all watch this stuf.

I say why finish if you can't win or is it finish the best you can.


So whose fault was it on the first lap Webber or Montoya or someone else?


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## j2 (Jun 13, 2003)

gmlav8r said:


> Classic racing: Pit change tire 2nd or 3rd maybe or stay in the game and risk it all. That is why we all watch this stuf.
> 
> I say why finish if you can't win or is it finish the best you can.
> 
> So whose fault was it on the first lap Webber or Montoya or someone else?


Webber has taken all the blame for it.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

beewang said:


> 47 laps to go .... Man!! That Rikkonen sure is fast!! :doh:
> 
> I need him to blow his engine or something...


Or something, as it turns out.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> Heidfeld, Raikonnen, Webber...
> 
> Btw, What did Webber say?


Just before Monaco, I believe, he said that Nick was, essentially, a slacker. That he held his place in the grid, but didn't try to do any better.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

jcatral14 said:


> I think Trulli was to his right but I think he could have made an effort to turn away from Montoya :thumbdwn: It's starting to look like he could be the odd man out if Jenson Buttons does indeed jump over to Williams next year. 3 podiums for Heidfeld to only one for him :eeps:
> Anyway as for Kimi, looking back, the best move for him would've been to pit and replace the bad tire. At least that way he might have still had a shot at finishing in the top three. That was crazy the way the car was shaking. If my car was shaking like that I wouldn't drive faster than 30mph and he was still flooring it. It was only a matter of time before something gave and it did. He's fortunate he was able to walk away from that. See how close he was to hitting the BAR Honda (Buttons?) car? :tsk:


I don't believe he had a choice to replace the tire. The tire has to fail to be replaced...and it never did actually fail; it just contributed to tearing the front end apart. Or is there something I missed in the rules?

And, yes, it was Button who narrowly escaped.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

" Unless a precautionary tyre change is necessary for clear and genuine safety reasons, only a punctured or damaged tyre may be changed during a race."

I would say that this definately qualified.  But would the FIA have agreed BEFORE the suspension blew up? Maybe not.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Pinecone said:


> But would the FIA have agreed BEFORE the suspension blew up? Maybe not.


This is the question isn't it? Those CF suspension components are not even going to show damage until just before they fail also. If you allow flat spotted tire changes...everyone will flat spot tires.


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