# German vs Japanese cars.....



## mikeee2 (Sep 3, 2004)

Hi all,

I've been reading bmw forums for quite some time now. In the market to get either a used or a new car. If used, mostly a bmw. If getting new, mostly the e90 or the g35. I am coming from owning a 92 Honda. Aside from the fact it's an econobox with not much luxury if there is any, the car has been pretty rock solid or bulletproof for quite some time. Maintaining it doesn't cost much either. I also read up on the Infiniti forums and the G35 doesn't seem to have much problems at all. Now each time I would to read the bimmer forums, regardless if it's a 3 series, 5 series, or whatever, new or old, there are always posts about mechanical issue, electrical issue, etc. Everyday, there are something new basically. Don't get me wrong. I've been craving for a bmw for a long long time now. I am no mechanic myself and I tend to bring my car to shop when there are problems. I am sure if I would to get a bmw, I am still covered for the first 4 years. But if little things break here and there, it's also very time consuming to bring to back and forth the dealers. Is the German cars reliability coming down the pipe? Not to offend anyone, but seems like Japanese cars reliablity is coming on top nowadays. Ultimately, bmw is what I want to own but from reading all these posts/forums, I might have to lean half way to a Japanese car now. What do you guys think? Sorry, if there are similar posts or this is a repost of something...

Thanks...


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## Ack (Mar 16, 2002)

As most people will likely say, when reading these online forums, the majority of people who do post, post of problems/issues arising from their cars. Before buying my '02 330Ci, I was also considering an Acura 3.2 TL Type-S. I went online and browsed the Acura site for a few months. Back then, the major issue was transmission failures. This ultimately helped me make a decision to go with the BMW as opposed to the Acura.

You basically have to weigh pros/cons for both cars. If you don't like having to fix issues like window regulators and trim, moonroof's coming off the tracks, and other odd electrical and mechanical gems, don't get the BMW. These seem to be problems that BMW either has a hard time admitting are issues, or just can't seem to get right from model to model. 

But if you really are someone who thinks that an automobile is more about the experience and pure driving, then just a mode of transportation, you'll be hard pressed to find any other car that will give you the same type of pleasure as a BMW. Even with all of the odd issues our cars seem to have, most people here would probably buy another BMW (styling aside  ) when it comes time to.

Ask an Infinity forum poster about their car and they'll probably say the same types of things about their brand as any of us here. In the end, no matter what people tell you, the ultimate decision is going to be yours to make. Just try to get as much information about the cars you are looking to buy and take a test-drive. Then weigh each thing you like/dislike about each car to help make your final decision.

Either way, good luck with your decision!


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## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

BMW's do have more than their fair share of stupid little (and often BIG) problems, there's absolutely no denying that. If you're coming from Honda, and want to maintain that reliable car lifestyle, then BMW is not for you. I'd be looking at the G35, S2000, etc.


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## atlau (Jul 1, 2004)

Like probably everyone else in the world, I upgraded from a 97 Honda Accord 2.2L to a BMW318i 2.0L.

I was thinking of a new Accord when upgrading my 97, (in the US, the Honda salesman told me you guys call it Acura TS-X?)

The new Accord probably has more features than the 318i, and I will probably be $15k better off (AUD).

However, what convinced me to go BMW, and what the salesman told me - "The Accord is a very nice car, no doubt - but if you were ever in an accident, *touch wood*, you'd much prefer to be in this car (referring to the BMW)"

So SAFETY is probably another consideration of German over Japanese. I've read horrible stories in this forum about people crashing throgh T-junction etc., and my reaction is - be glad you are in a BMW, over a Japanese car.

If an S2000 a.k.a coke can, it may not be as safe...

anyway my 2c

A



ff said:


> BMW's do have more than their fair share of stupid little (and often BIG) problems, there's absolutely no denying that. If you're coming from Honda, and want to maintain that reliable car lifestyle, then BMW is not for you. I'd be looking at the G35, S2000, etc.


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## Mathew (Feb 8, 2002)

I'd consider editting this thread title.


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## ferragame (Jul 21, 2004)

Over the past two years, I've had a few Honda Civics, a couple of Audis (A4 and A6), a couple over VWs (Golf & Jetta) and currently two BMWs (328Ci and 530i). I also rent cars every other week for business travel - I've had a 04 Maxima 3.5, Sentra 2.5, Caddy Seville, Diamonte (sp?), Jeep Liberity, and quite a few others. 

My personal opinion is that the German cars are much more fun to drive than the Japanese cars I've driven (except for one). Most Japanese cars are front drivers which has a lot to do with it. The Maxima is a great example. It has something like 260+ hp through the front wheels. Talk about torque steer. Jeez. 

The german cars also seem quieter at 60+ mph. Less road and wind noise. I drive an hour to and from work and let me tell you, you really notice the difference. The Japanese cars also seem very cheap in their choice of interior materials. My buddy has a new 350 Z. Nice car but the plastic interior is garbage. To me, Audi is the best in terms of quality of the interior materials. 

Yes, I've had more problems with the German cars I've owned. Yes my old honda CRX with 180,000 mi ran forever even after breaking a timing belt. Just replaced the belt and it was back on the road. Burned a bit of oil. Ran with little or no oil for a week here and there and it STILL ran - used about a quart of oil a month and I drove it like almost 5 hrs a day round trip to work 4 days a week at the time. The darn thing was unstoppable. I gave it to a friend that broke the half shafts by doing neutral drops (dumb) with an auto. He gave it to another friend who replaced the halfshaft and its back on the road 230,000+ mile (much of which was as a pizza delivery vehicle). 

Have a few friends with G35s. Again the cheap interior. Wouldn't enjoy driving it for 2+ hrs a day. Not sure about the road noise at 80 mph.

Anyway, for those who think Japanese cars are perfect, they aren't. You should have seen my 93 Rx-7 TT. Best sports car I ever had. I'm an idiot for getting rid. Definitely not the most reliable car from the factory. With some care it could be made reliable but as it came, the twin turbo set up would always get screwed up. Bad design on Mazda's part. Bad quality control and bad training for the factory mechanics. So the Japanese can also have their fair share of reliability problems also. Oh and the interior materials were also crap on these cars - the peeling plastic. Ask anyone that had a 93 Rx-7.

Long story short - German cars drive great and I love the interiors. Japanese cars (for the most part) aren't as much fun to drive and typically have cheap garbage interiors. Just my opinion.

Sorry about the rant.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Mathew said:


> I'd consider editting this thread title.


I'm with you. But maybe it would get changed to Kraut.

Alex


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## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

mathew said:


> I'd consider editting this thread title.





rumratt said:


> Nice subject.


What, you think it should read "Kraut vs. Jap cars"?  :angel:

Seriously, though this subject has been brought up many times, as you suspected. Do a search. Something like "Japanese reliability" will get you many hits. Using the shortened form will probably not.


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## Spectre (Aug 1, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> I'm with you. But maybe it would get changed to Kraut.
> 
> Alex


Looks like we were thinking along the same line. :rofl:


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

atlau said:


> However, what convinced me to go BMW, and what the salesman told me - "The Accord is a very nice car, no doubt - but if you were ever in an accident, *touch wood*, you'd much prefer to be in this car (referring to the BMW)"
> 
> So SAFETY is probably another consideration of German over Japanese. I've read horrible stories in this forum about people crashing throgh T-junction etc., and my reaction is - be glad you are in a BMW, over a Japanese car.


That's just crap because Hondas (especially the newer ones) are actually pretty safe. 5 of the current Hondas (not including Acura) earned the NHTSA's highest crash rating, 5 stars...


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

atlau said:


> However, what convinced me to go BMW, and what the salesman told me - "The Accord is a very nice car, no doubt - but if you were ever in an accident, *touch wood*, you'd much prefer to be in this car (referring to the BMW)"


"what can i say to get you to buy this car today"  
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Index2.cfm

2004 Acura TSX 4-DR w/ SAB 
frontal driver: ***** 5
frontal pass: ***** 5
side front: ***** 5
side rear: **** 4
rollover: **** 4

2004 BMW 3 Series 4-DR w/ SAB
frontal driver: **** 4
frontal pass: ***** 5
side front: *** 3 /!\ "safety concern"
side rear: ***** 5
rollover: **** 4

this was a concern that i had w/ the selections available ... 5 years ago.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

Mathew said:


> I'd consider editting this thread title.


done


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## atlau (Jul 1, 2004)

Hmm... that's all well and good, but these are just "numbers" and ratings - which to me, mean nothing. The bimmer has i think 8 airbags, versus the 2 in the accord.

The accord feels way lighter - and as a typical japanese car, the door feels feather light.

The bimmer door weighs a tonne, and feels like it weights more!!

The Accord... when going 125km/h down the high way, feels like it's gonna fly off the road, turn upside down.

This is just my opinion of course - remember the 97 Accord is the 5th one I've owned - and never had any problems with it. Bimmer's in the workshop as we speak - getting the aircon fixed.

*touch wood*



HW said:


> "what can i say to get you to buy this car today"
> http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/ncap/Index2.cfm
> 
> 2004 Acura TSX 4-DR w/ SAB
> ...


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

atlau said:


> Hmm... that's all well and good, but these are just "numbers" and ratings - which to me, mean nothing. The bimmer has i think 8 airbags, versus the 2 in the accord.
> 
> The accord feels way lighter - and as a typical japanese car, the door feels feather light.
> 
> ...


http://www.technofile.com/cars/acura_tsx_2004.html


> Standard safety stuff inside includes the usual front airbags (the passenger one is mounted ***8220;seamlessly***8221; and blends into the instrument panel), side curtain airbags, side airbags. Hell, there are so many airbags in this car it would probably lift off the ground if the gas inside them were lighter than air. There are also door beams and front seat belt pretensioners with load-limiters. And the car itself uses crumple zones and a sliding front subframe to further its life-saving skills.


btw, i remember the door on the preludes especially the 92 and up are quite heavy and solid.


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## Mantis (Sep 7, 2004)

I can dig this thead,

As I just bought a 2000 328i and was looking for quite some time, BMW's do drive differently. They have there way with the road. Exciting everytime ou get behind the wheel. Such a pleasure to drive to work now that I own one. I could have bought a Acura TL, r another Nissan Maxima SE but after driving them and then going back to the BMW 3 series, I felt much more in conrtol of the car and felt like the car had better control over the road.

I love japanese cars, Nissan is a great company and I'll buy another one or 3. For my family ride we still have our 2001 Xterra and we love it. When we decide to trade it in, I'm considering a Murano. I also looked at the X3 which is really nice but I like the more room in the Murano.

Deciding which way to go can be decided on multible test drives. I killed it dead as I must have taken over 30 test drives. I own a BMW


Dan


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

mikeee2 said:


> What do you guys think? Sorry, if there are similar posts or this is a repost of something...
> 
> Thanks...


:hi: and welcome to the 'fest!

What follows is internet opinion and not to be confused with facts :

As the former owner of a '92 Honda (and a 88 Honda, and an 85 Honda... etc.) I can sympathise with you. In between the last Honda and my current Bimmer was a '99 Benz C class.

If you want * transport *, then buy another Honda. They are great cars, highly reliable (in my experience), trouble free, and good, solid, precise machines.

However, if you want to * drive * the car, then get the Bimmer. Last week I had to get to B from A, quickly. Running through the gears in the 3er was great fun, and even though I am still learning (more, re-learning) how to drive a stick after 5 years in the Benz, it is a great feeling car that is just a blast to drive.

Oh and for me its been 9200 trouble free miles in the 3er (touch wood) to date.

(EDIT: to correct grammer (or is that grammar?))


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

With a few exceptions, the Japanese build great 4-wheeled *appliances*, while the Germans build the best *sport sedans* in the world.... which would you rather drive?

Regards,
Bob


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## atlau (Jul 1, 2004)

Yes... in a coupe it's fine. In a sedan it's much lighter. I'm not doubting that is' just as safe or probably even safer than the 3er, it's part of the charm of a Japanese car.

And no doubt the Japanese cars have a lot going for it, I considered the LEXUS RX330 (I think you guys call it a Toyota Harrier ???) which was fantastic, but it's just a different breed and style of car.

To help you be more confused - yes the accord salesman (disappointed as he is now) did remind me of the fact that I cannot take for granted the years of trouble free motoring I got with the Hondas.

AND Keep in mind - statistics, and numbers are all just numbers. Lexus showed me all numbers, regarding reliability etc...

At the end of the day, if you get delivered a lemon, its your problem. Just because it's the most reliable car in the world statistically, you are still stuck at the workshop expalaining that "but it was making that noise before i swear!!!!!"

Another thing, not sure about the states, but in Australia, car dealers like to give additional serives and additioanl perks just to win business.

Lexus gives you an annual golf day, plus free parking at the Opera house, whenever (which costs like $25/hour to park there)

Holden gives free scheduled servicing for 2 years

BMW gives NOTHING!!!! except sheer driving pleasure :thumbup:



HW said:


> http://www.technofile.com/cars/acura_tsx_2004.html
> 
> btw, i remember the door on the preludes especially the 92 and up are quite heavy and solid.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

atlau said:


> Another thing, not sure about the states, but in Australia, car dealers like to give additional serives and additioanl perks just to win business.
> 
> Lexus gives you an annual golf day, plus free parking at the Opera house, whenever (which costs like $25/hour to park there)
> 
> ...


all these "perks" get factored into the price of the car. bmwna and bmwca offer scheduled maintenance that i'm sure is factored into the price of the car.


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## atlau (Jul 1, 2004)

Of course - thats why when you walk around the Opera house, parking, you only see Lexus cars. My poor bimmer has to park on the street 



HW said:


> all these "perks" get factored into the price of the car. bmwna and bmwca offer scheduled maintenance that i'm sure is factored into the price of the car.


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