# Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S in snow?



## cojo47 (Feb 12, 2005)

After reading the posts here, I'm all primed to pick up a set of Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S for my '96 328is. Today I spoke to the local high-performance tire shop &#8230; and the guy told me that although he loves the Pirellis for everything else, the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S's are dogs in the snow. "Might get you home," he says, but that's it. Not much tread to bite into the snow.

I'm confused. That's not what I gather from reading the Tirerack survey at 
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHPAS

where the Pirellis are rated relatively well in snow.

(By the way, he suggests the Toyo Proxes 4, which he says are better in the rain, much better in the snow, but won't handle as well on dry roads, and are noisier than the Pirellis.)

Does anyone have experience with the Pirellis in the snow? If so, please share it.

Thanks folks!!


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## Closer (Apr 9, 2002)

Im looking at buying a set as well and would love to hear other people's expierences with these tires. I dont think they are really meant for use in snow. I think they have the snow rating for use in colder temps. :dunno: But I could be wrong.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

No experience, but when at a point between them and another tire, I went elsewhere. Looking at the tread, I don't see how they could do very well in snow...tightly packed tread blocks and funny sipes just don't make me feel confidant they would do well in the white stuff.


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## NH-SHICKS (Nov 3, 2003)

Desertnate said:


> No experience, but when at a point between them and another tire, I went elsewhere. Looking at the tread, I don't see how they could do very well in snow...tightly packed tread blocks and funny sipes just don't make me feel confidant they would do well in the white stuff.


They are the same tread pattern as the non M+S summer nero, but a different rubber compound that is more cold weather friendly.

Steve


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## cojo47 (Feb 12, 2005)

NH-SHICKS said:


> They are the same tread pattern as the non M+S summer nero, but a different rubber compound that is more cold weather friendly.
> 
> Steve


The tire shop I went to made precisely the same points as Desertnate and NH-Shicks ... except that the tire shop didn't believe that the difference in rubber compound would compensate for the lack of aggressive tread to bite into snow.

But then again, I wonder whether any of the UHP all seasons (other than the Toyos?) have good treads for snow. Or is that the trade-off in stepping up to "ultra-high performance?"

The Tirerack survey gives the Pirellis high grades in snow ... suggesting that a bunch of folks out there have actually USED them in snow. If so, I'd really like to hear from you! Thanks!


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Proxes 4 must mean you're talking to Radial Tire. 

My general view on this one is that you need to make a decision: Am I going to drive in the snow, or just worry about getting home after it snows a bit? If it's the former, neither of them are going to do it for you. If it's the latter, then both of them will probably be fine. FWIW, I'm told the Proxes 4 is adequate in the snow.


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## cojo47 (Feb 12, 2005)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Proxes 4 must mean you're talking to Radial Tire.
> 
> My general view on this one is that you need to make a decision: Am I going to drive in the snow, or just worry about getting home after it snows a bit? If it's the former, neither of them are going to do it for you. If it's the latter, then both of them will probably be fine. FWIW, I'm told the Proxes 4 is adequate in the snow.


Hey Nick - You win the intuition award! Yes, it's the folks at Radial Tires who are warning me about the Pirellis; I'm thinking about it because I basically like those guys. And yes, I agree with your assessment of the issue - performance versus a marginal bit of versatility, I guess.

Frankly, I'm still leaning heavily towards the Pirellis, but being an ex-New Englander, I have this gut wrenching feeling of incompleteness unless I can go anywhere anytime. But then again, in DC traffic I actually can't get anywhere at anytime.  Not to mention the fact that while snow driving doesn't scare me a bit, DC drivers in the snow TERRIFY me ...!

Hey, by the way, do you have a BMW repair shop that you like ...?

Cheers!


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## Spiderm0n (Dec 19, 2001)

just got my P Zero Nero M+S's a few months ago. I have tested them a few times in the snow and they have done great. When I say test I mean driving in 6-12" of snow. Of course my AWD helped too, but I love the tires in all conditions.


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## cojo47 (Feb 12, 2005)

Spiderm0n said:


> just got my P Zero Nero M+S's a few months ago. I have tested them a few times in the snow and they have done great. When I say test I mean driving in 6-12" of snow. Of course my AWD helped too, but I love the tires in all conditions.


That's very encouraging. Thanks for the feedback. I hope to get a set of Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S within the next week or so, and will let folks know how they do.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Good luck with the Neros.

I've used my Proxes 4 in the snow a few times. The first time, they were decent. Today, with very wet snow, they were quite slippery, but then again my friend who runs Hakka Q's said it was slippery for him too. So it was just slick conditions.

As a whole, I'd say the Proxes 4 will get home ok. 

But I think they really shine in cold, wet conditions. Their performance in those conditions are great, and I'm sure the Neros will be the same based on all the reviews. (neros and the 4's were the two finalists in my search)

That said, I'm still going with snows next winter.


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## cojo47 (Feb 12, 2005)

Hi Folks -

I said I'd report back, so here's the first installment. I've been driving on my new set of Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires for a month now ... and I like them a lot. I can't report on them in snow since - happily - it hasn't snowed here in DC since I got them. But I can report that their handling on dry roads is excellent, they stick like glue on wet roads, and best of all ... no tramlining. They are also quiet and comfortable. After my old Michellin XGTZ4 death tires the Pirellis are heaven! This is the first time in years that I'm not terrified when it rains! And I'm not getting my teeth rattled out anymore either.

Thanks to all of you here on this forum for providing insights; your feedback was very helpful!!


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## goldcup45 (Dec 7, 2004)

I have the M&S tires on my 325i. I have used them in the snow a few times and they seem to perform okay. A lot better than the OE Contis I had on before. These tires are more for an occasional snow fall or if you happen to get caught in one. If I lived in a place with a lot of regular snow, I probably would get a set of winter tires. But here in KS, it only snows 4 or 5 times a year, and usually not too heavily. So, the tires are fine for here.


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## Josh (PA) (Jan 21, 2002)

I had them on the rear of my e36 M3 and didn't like them at all. I went through a winter with them (and Pilot Sports up front) and it was very dicey in anything worse than slushy conditions. I personally would recommend getting a cheap set of snows for the winter and erroring on the safe side.


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## jcatral14 (Aug 4, 2003)

Josh (PA) said:


> I had them on the rear of my e36 M3 and didn't like them at all. I went through a winter with them (and Pilot Sports up front) and it was very dicey in anything worse than slushy conditions. I personally would recommend getting a cheap set of snows for the winter and erroring on the safe side.


You really shouldn't mix and match different tires...


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## iversonm (Nov 15, 2004)

Now that we've had our first 70 degree day today, I can now say I have one full winter on my P Zero Nero M&S, and a fairly snowy one at that.

I would say that their performance in snow is somewhat relative. 

Compared to summer tires in the snow, they are heaven sent. Compared to a good set of snow tires, they clearly don't stack up.

I could navigate snow up to about 4-5 inches with acceptable traction. After that, the air dam acted as a snow plow, and trouble set in. However, that's not the tire's fault.

I'd rate the performance about a 4 out of 10, with summer tires at zero (unsafe), typical non performance all seasons at a 6, and snows at an 8 or nine. I am at a relative disadvantage with 255's in the rear. I'm sure a skinnier set would be better.

Ice traction is a bit worse, about a 3. I had a few problems with icy hills, especially the really cold mornings, where the temp was between 5 below and 10 above. I think the compound starts getting really hard in that temp range.

Al in all, I am really pleased with the tires. Dry and wet traction are exceptional, noise is non existent, and you probably won't see a handling difference between summers unless you are on the track.

I would look at them as a set of tire that can get you home safely in mild snow, and not sacrifice significant performance. I'm lucky that I have a 2.5 mile commute. If you plan on a long commute in any road condition, get a set of snows. It is worth the extra moey.


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## fullcombat (Mar 27, 2005)

I am looking at these same exact tires (Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S) for my 02 330xi. The other tire I am looking at are the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (ultra performance - all season, and more expensive), but also get good reviews in the snow. 

Mike


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## snowphun (Mar 28, 2005)

I have a set of Nero's on my WRX, and IMO the snow/ice grip is mediocre at best, about par with the Bridgestone re92's that are roundly disliked. ABS would kick in very early and often, lots of sliding even at lower speeds. So different from proper snows (like my Artic Alpins), that I've only driven them in the snow a couple times. 

I do like them as a summer tire, though I don't tend to push the envelope on public roads.

Paul


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## Spiderm0n (Dec 19, 2001)

snowphun said:


> I have a set of Nero's on my WRX, and IMO the snow/ice grip is mediocre at best, about par with the Bridgestone re92's that are roundly disliked. ABS would kick in very early and often, lots of sliding even at lower speeds. So different from proper snows (like my Artic Alpins), that I've only driven them in the snow a couple times.
> 
> I do like them as a summer tire, though I don't tend to push the envelope on public roads.
> 
> Paul


did you have the summer Neros or the HPAS Nero M+S?. Also, maybe your experience has something to do with the dynamics of the WRX? Nero M+S have gotten good winter reviews here and on tirerack.


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