# Drove a Honda S2000 and a Mazda RX-8 today



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

The Roadstergal said:


> And a good option; have you driven one?


I had a very short test drive in a V6 Mazda 6. It was very reasonable. :dunno:


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

·clyde· said:


> Mitsu doesn't care. "You participated in an autox once? Too bad. Pay up, sucker."


Just gotta make sure they don't find out. Sign up under a false name, blank out your license plate and your VIN tag, done.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> Got any links?


The only ones that I can think of are in the evolutionm.net threads and the allusions in the Autoweek and C&D articles (which probably originate from the same place). Paddock rumors. :dunno:

It's definitely not as concrete as the Evo issues.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

AK said:


> RX-8s are sitting on dealer lots for a long time now which means their resale value won't be good.


Yet, Mazda exceeded their RX-8 sales target for the first 12 months the car was available in the US. Go figure :dunno:

I expect depreciation to be bad, but since the car is so cheap to begin with, big percentages don't equal big dollars.


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

·clyde· said:


> I expect depreciation to be bad, but since the car is so cheap to begin with, big percentages don't equal big dollars.


A new on with just the sport package is $26,600. Not that expensive at all, but I still hate the idea of driving it off the lot and having it be worth $18K instantly.

What's hilarious is that all the used ones for sale are so over priced. People who bought last year and paid full MSRP are subtracting 5K and thinking it's a reasonable price, but it's hardly below what you can buy a new one for today.

I have to admit that the idea of getting 12 MPG without the torque of a V8 is somewhat troublesome. But I'd probably get over it. Like AF-RX8 said, it's just a small part of the cost of an enthusiast's car. Not really that signficiant.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

rumratt said:


> A new on with just the sport package is $26,600. Not that expensive at all, but I still hate the idea of driving it off the lot and having it be worth $18K instantly.


That's reality. The E46 is an anomaly.



> What's hilarious is that all the used ones for sale are so over priced. People who bought last year and paid full MSRP are subtracting 5K and thinking it's a reasonable price, but it's hardly below what you can buy a new one for today.


Agree.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

rumratt said:


> I have to admit that the idea of getting 12 MPG without the torque of a V8 is somewhat troublesome.


It's a lot quicker than it feels. You just don't feel it. (  )


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

my attempt to be constructive

I went through the car search last year and my price range and car selection and usage seems to match up to your pretty.

I considered the following g35 coupe, m3,evo,wrx sti,wrx,330i zhp, rsx,350z track, and finally the rx-8. For me the reason I did not go with the rx-8 is the rotary and IMHO bad gas mileage accompanied by lack of torque. If you don't mind the gas mileage and reving it out for speed then it is a great car, very nicely balanced rwd. 

As for the awd cars, after driving my awd car for about a year and maybe 5 auto-x under my belt I definitely prefer a balanced rwd car over awd. Times might be quick on the evo/sti cars but from my experience you are not finessing it through the course with them, you are more brute forcing it, kind of just hanging on. Versus rwd rewards you more for finesse which to me is funnier at the track/auto-x. My car is a great car for around town driving fast though

Oh, I wish the s2000 came in coupe since i dont like convertibles  come on honda


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

Jeff_DML said:


> Versus rwd rewards you more for finesse which to me is funnier at the track/auto-x.


Yep, I really like RWD. I've never autox'd an AWD, but most of the AWD cars that I watch going around the course don't look pretty. Plowing and squeeling.

Thanks for the opinions everyone. I've made no progress whatsoever in making a decision, but it was still helpful. :str8pimpi


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> I considered the following g35 coupe, m3,evo,wrx sti,wrx,330i zhp, rsx,350z track, and finally the rx-8.


Those are all good choices you came up with ... I really think there are so many awesome cars available that the choice is hard to make and you really can't go wrong with any of them.

The one thing I love about the RX8 is that it *IS* a sports car ... the only other sports car in the choice above is the 350z, the others are all excellent vehicles and I am not taking anything away from them but they aren't sports cars.

I think a fair list to compare with the RX8 would be the 350Z, the Z4, Boxster, 911 (though it's a lot more $$), S2000, Corvette, Miata, NSX (Again more $$) etc ...

On paper all of the cars Jeff named as well as the ones I've named aren't too off on performance but the feel of them definitely is. I really think that we are comparing sport *sedans* to sports cars.

It isn't about the numbers ... it's about *the feel ...* at least for me.


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

What I would do is keep the 330i SP and get a Mazda 6 wagon (since that's what I'm actually going to do). I know I told you this already, so it's probably not a surprise. 

My wife is not an enthusiast either, doesn't want a BMW because of the badge, but she appreciates a car with good handling, since she drives pretty quickly. The Mazda 6 is the obvious choice for us, especially considering they offer a wagon. If you like the Accord better, you'll probably save money over the long term due to better resale and possibly better reliability, but it most likely won't be as fun when you drive it.

You've taken the plunge and bought your expensive foreign car, now stick it out and keep it a reasonable amount of time to get your money's worth. Get your wife a quality car with a decently sized interior that has FWD for the snow and rain since she doesn't care much about driving anyway. Seems obvious to me...what's with the uncertainty?


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Oh yeah, and it's not like I don't see the attraction of the S2000 or the RX-8. They're both on my short list of cars I'd like to own. I'd also like a 911, a new Boxster Coupe, an Exige and a Chevy Tahoe to pull my race prepped E30 M3 on its trailer.


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

PhilH said:


> Oh yeah, and it's not like I don't see the attraction of the S2000 or the RX-8. They're both on my short list of cars I'd like to own. I'd also like a 911, a new Boxster Coupe, an Exige and a Chevy Tahoe to pull my race prepped E30 M3 on its trailer.


 Just get an Elise.

:eeps:


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Elwood said:


> Just get an Elise.
> 
> :eeps:


I guess if I've got a race prepped E30 M3, I can maybe save some cash and go with the Elise. :eeps:

I've always wanted an Exige though...


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## Fzara2000 (Jan 22, 2004)

Are any of you rich people willing to adopt? :eeps:


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

Fzara2000 said:


> Are any of you rich people willing to adopt? :eeps:


 Not rich, but open to donations to make me so


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## BlackChrome (Nov 16, 2003)

How about keeping the 330 and get an 2004 Accord V6 (brand new)? 

1. You can get one with a great deal since the 2005s are coming
2. It has side curtain airbags standard
3. 240HP is a lot better than 160HP!


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

PhilH said:


> What I would do is keep the 330i SP and get a Mazda 6 wagon


They're too damn expensive. They come in V6 only and in order to get the side airbags, you need to order just about every option. :tsk: :thumbdwn:

Last time I did the math I think it was almost $27K (or more?) No way. She could drive my 330 and the cost of ownership over the next 3 years would be less.



BlackChrome said:


> How about keeping the 330 and get an 2004 Accord V6 (brand new)?


Same problam as above. The cost of her driving the 330 for the next 3-4 years is really not THAT high since I've already eaten the first year of depreciation, so I need to buy a pretty cheap car to have it pay off.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

rumratt said:


> I need to buy a pretty cheap car to have it pay off.


zoom zoom The rotary way...


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Well, I'd go for the RX-8 option.

I love that car... handling is so pure. The car is light on its feet. Terrific.

I was *this* close to convincing my wife that it could be suitable 2nd car for the family. I :bow: to clyde because he was able to do it... I wasn't. But I still love the car.

So, I'm going with a Legacy GT wagon instead. It's more car than a Mazda 6, and it's probably as fast in a straight line as a RX-8. (no 5-speed manual cars have been officially instrumented by the car mags). It's a nice car. Its added power and substantially lower cost convinced me to get it over a 325iT. A 330iT might've been tougher to beat, but...


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

racerdave said:


> A 330iT might've been tougher to beat, but...


Well...


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Well, I'd go for the RX-8 option.
> 
> I love that car... handling is so pure. The car is light on its feet. Terrific.
> 
> ...


Great choice Dave ... the Subaru is a great car ... I would definitely get that car over the 325iT ... Did you have to order it and if so what are the color,options, etc,


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

I should be ordering in September. I'll be ordering a Legacy GT in Satin White, a pearl white. It'll be a non-Limited, meaning cloth interior and no moonroof... just the way I like it.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

·clyde· said:


> Well...


:jawdrop:



Yes, I've been aware of Ben's project. :bow:

Very, very nice. But a $55k 1-off isn't in my budget right now. Getting the Legacy GT to 300 hp, however, could be very do-able. 

Matt... all that aside, if you can swing the RX-8, do it. :thumbup:


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

racerdave said:


> So, I'm going with a Legacy GT wagon instead. It's more car than a Mazda 6, and it's probably as fast in a straight line as a RX-8. (no 5-speed manual cars have been officially instrumented by the car mags). It's a nice car. Its added power and substantially lower cost convinced me to get it over a 325iT. A 330iT might've been tougher to beat, but...


A Legacy GT starts at $27,500, as much as a loaded Mazda 6. A comparable GT Limited wagon is $31,500, some $5,000 more than a loaded Mazda 6. My wife likes good handling, but has no interest at all in a powerful engine. If we got a Legacy it would be the 168 hp 2.5i Limited, which is $27k loaded. However, for the same price, a comparably equipped Mazda 6 wagon gives you a 220 hp V6.

I hate turbo engines anyway, the lag on our Passat 1.8T is really annoying from a dead stop, not to mention our turbo died at 56k miles to the tune of $2,000 in repairs. The Legacy 2.5i would be fine with me, since it would be nice to have AWD, but the styling of the Mazda is nicer IMO, not to mention the extra power for the price.

I can see how a GT wagon with a 5-spd would be a good enthusiast wagon, but we're looking for a loaded mommy-mobile for a reasonable price.

Rumratt, although I was saying I was going to buy a Mazda 6 wagon, the wagon part is obviously not something you really need right now. You said you test drove a Mazda 6s sedan, maybe you should test drive a 6i sedan or 5-door hatch and see how you like the 4-cylinder. The 6i with an automatic is the model I test drove and I really was impressed by the smoothness of the engine, and it felt much quicker than I thought it would.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with an Accord 4-cylinder, especially with a manual transmission. If you're not going with the Mazda, I'd go with the Accord.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

If you're looking for a loaded mommy-mobile, the 6 is not a bad car at all. Since our next car will be primarily for me, I have a different take. But the 6 is nice on its own merits.

I also agree with the Accord... great basic transportation.

But it ain't a RX-8, Matt.


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

Fzara2000 said:


> Are any of you rich people willing to adopt? :eeps:


What are you smoking. I'm too cheap to buy a second car if it costs more than $20K? :dunno:


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

PhilH, you're right, I should drive a 6i. It might be a good choice, either a discounted '04 or a new '05 purchased with the s-plan (discount because I work for an affiliate company).


Racerdave. You're getting close to convincing me. 


I've thought about this more and come to the following conclusions:

1) I could definitely be very happy with either situation. 

2) I'm not willing to increase our budget by any substantial amount. 

3) I'm not willing to buy a Honda Accord if I could have an RX8 for the same money. It's just wrong.


So putting 2) and 3) together, it all depends on what kind of deal I an get on the RX8. If Mazda decides to make it's $4K leasing incentives available on a purchase as well, I might do it (I'm in NY state so I can't lease). Or, if I could find someone willing to sell a used base RX8 at a reasonable price, I'd do that too. 

But I'm not buying a $27K RX8. If I can't find a good deal by the time she decides the current Accord needs to go, then I'll have no choice but to go with a Mazda/Honda for her. 

That's my decision for today, and I promise not to change until at least tomorrow.


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

This one looks perfect!!!! Exactly the options I'd want.

http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?c...vanced=n&start_year=2003&=&color=&cardist=200

If I can just talk him down $5K, I'll buy it tomorrow.


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

IMo that seems rather high for a used RX8, higher than I would have thought anyways

Don't you know anyone who works for Ford? There's a pretty decent discount under the employee program for an Rx8. Haven't looked in a while, but there were some serious incentives several months ago too. :dunno: 

The RX8 is a sweet car, wich I could add one to my stable. Maybe next year. :thumbup:


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

TeamZ4 said:


> Don't you know anyone who works for Ford? There's a pretty decent discount under the employee program for an Rx8.


I'm eligible for the "s-plan" but this may not be the same level of disount as a Ford employee. It offers you essentially invoice price.

The car he's trying to sell for $25K I could buy tomorrow new for $26.6K. If it's really in good condition and only 3 months old, how much would it be worth? Maybe subtract 4K for driving off the lot, making it $22.6 max? :dunno:


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## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

rumratt said:


> I'm eligible for the "s-plan" but this may not be the same level of disount as a Ford employee. It offers you essentially invoice price.
> 
> The car he's trying to sell for $25K I could buy tomorrow new for $26.6K. If it's really in good condition and only 3 months old, how much would it be worth? Maybe subtract 4K for driving off the lot, making it $22.6 max? :dunno:


That price is definitely high for a non-loaded 8 ... my msrp was $31,200 and i got about $1500 off sticker ... so I paid around $29,700, if I were to sell it today I ewould only expect to get $23k to $24k ... I would think that barebones 8 would be worth about $21k to $22k

On ebay there are a ton of RX8's for sale ... I am sure you could get a good deal on there

Matt ... a Mazda 6s with a a manual is an awesome car but I wouldn't consider it for yourself considering you have a 330i ... For your wife would be a different story.

Enterprise rent a car has Mazda 6's available for renting so you could always try rentig one for a few days to see how you like it. I've driven the 4 cylinder and it is a great engine with plentyof torque and power, in fact I had to actualy look at the engine to verify it was a 4 clyinder because it felt so fast I though it might have been a 6 cylinder


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

rumratt said:


> I'm eligible for the "s-plan" but this may not be the same level of disount as a Ford employee. It offers you essentially invoice price.
> 
> The car he's trying to sell for $25K I could buy tomorrow new for $26.6K. If it's really in good condition and only 3 months old, how much would it be worth? Maybe subtract 4K for driving off the lot, making it $22.6 max? :dunno:


That's the same plan that Ford employees are offered on the Mazdas. It's the equivalent of the "X plan" on Fords. Ford employees can get an even better deal on Ford products (the "A plan"), which is under invoice, but an equivalent deal is not offered for Mazdas or Volvos.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

AF-RX8 said:


> That price is definitely high for a non-loaded 8
> 
> I would think that barebones 8 would be worth about $21k to $22k


Yeah, it doesn't appear that it ahs a sunroof, so it's gotta be pretty close to base. If I were looking, I wouldn't want to go over $22k on it.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

TeamZ4 said:


> The RX8 is a sweet car, wich I could add one to my stable. Maybe next year. :thumbup:


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

I've seen brand new 6-speed dealer ads in the paper here in San Diego for ~$24.7k. I assume it is the base model though.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

AF-RX8 said:


> Matt ... a Mazda 6s with a a manual is an awesome car but I wouldn't consider it for yourself considering you have a 330i ... For your wife would be a different story.


I test drove a Mazda 6s V6 with a manual and I didn't care for it. I thought the shifter was balky and the clutch engagement a little wishy washy (for lack of a better term). It didn't want to be rushed. I think that engine would be better off with an automatic, quite frankly.

FWIW, I wound up buying a Mazda 3s with manual and the shifter/clutch is quite a bit better than the 6s (IMHO).


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## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

AF-RX8 said:


> I would think that barebones 8 would be worth about $21k to $22k


Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.



> Mazda 6s with a a manual is an awesome car but I wouldn't consider it for yourself considering you have a 330i


:nono: Mazda 6 not for me.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

AK said:


> FWIW, I wound up buying a Mazda 3s with manual and the shifter/clutch is quite a bit better than the 6s (IMHO).


Still mushy, though, although I do think it's a great car.


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