# Rear Foglights for E39



## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Patrick 520iAT said:


> Maybe I should remove my rear fog lamps and sell them on eBay for $52,000.
> 
> I have used them once in 10 months, and didn't know they were there until I RTFM.
> 
> ...


We have mod fever...you know better! We MUST have the features and options you get over the pond!!! WE MUST!!!! We can't stand it that just about everyone in the world can tailor make their BMW down to the choice between an M4 or M5 screw. WE CAN'T STAND IT!!!!!!!! :madrazz: :irate:  
:soapbox:

Chris :banghead:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Ågent99 said:


> We have mod fever...you know better! We MUST have the features and options you get over the pond!!! WE MUST!!!! We can't stand it that just about everyone in the world can tailor make their BMW down to the choice between an M4 or M5 screw. WE CAN'T STAND IT!!!!!!!! :madrazz: :irate:
> :soapbox:
> 
> Chris :banghead:


That I do understand. My POS is modified as well, and soon it will be "modded" into something else with a V8 engine.

Ok, we get rear fogs and some other strange options, but at a price.

Damn, I need a 540i ... 



-


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

vietsb said:


>


*This picture FRIGHTENS me!* 



-


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

kowached said:


> but I'll bet that the majority of drivers in the US don't recognize what they are because it's not part of drivers training in this country...


 :rofl:  :bawling:  :spank:

Drivers in this country cant grasp the most fundamental driving concepts (SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT)...and we expect them to know what rear fog lights are on euro cars.

uch:

Darwinism dosent work fast enough....


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> I think those of us with 2001+ could easily sell the Celis rears on eBay and recoup some money and get the Hella kit...pehaps also on eBay. What are those running nowadays? Is it really worth it? :dunno:
> 
> Damn...now *I'm* getting interested in doing both the ED and the rear fog (might as well do both at the same time). Get ready, Viet!!
> 
> Chris


OK enlighten me please. Will I have to buy the full Hella kit or is it possible to buy just the light housing itself? I looked at several vendors on the web this morning and did not find anything offered. Do we need to organize a group buy that would involve one of our friends overseas that could buy the european housing? :dunno:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

avionics12 said:


> OK enlighten me please. Will I have to buy the full Hella kit or is it possible to buy just the light housing itself? I looked at several vendors on the web this morning and did not find anything offered. Do we need to organize a group buy that would involve one of our friends overseas that could buy the european housing? :dunno:


:dunno: I'm not even sure exactly what we need, what is available, and what will be tough to find. uch:

I do have a contact in Munich but I am not sure when his next trip to the states is...might be a while.

Chris


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

LmtdSlip said:


> :rofl:  :bawling:  :spank:
> 
> Drivers in this country cant grasp the most fundamental driving concepts (SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT)...and we expect them to know what rear fog lights are on euro cars.
> 
> ...


I thought this over and knowing how I am (I can justify a mod quicker than two hookers on nickle night turning tricks :str8pimpi ) I decided that any safety related mod that will make me more visible to someone behind me is better than doing nothing at all. I do understand what you are saying 

It is a shame that todays driving schools, minus the professional or club sponsored ones, seem to be little more than profit centers churning out Junior Mints intent on replicating the slick driving moves that are so prevalent on the big screen today. This leaves me  when parents are bawling at funerals because Junior has departed the pattern.

OK I'm off the :soapbox:


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## DZeckhausen (Mar 11, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> It isn't too much work to pop your headlight unit out and see if you have all wires attached but your real question is to figure out how far along (assuming it is there) the wires go. I would hazard a guess that they would be close to the end but I guess you won't know until someone posts the info or you start at your brakes and work back. I'm betting it is tucked back into the corner around the NAV/Amp/CD area. They always tie back a bunch of connectors and wires there.


Headlight unit?

Actually, I've gone hunting for these wires and they simply don't exist. You'll need to run two wires all the way from the tail lamp module to the LCM located in the passenger side footwell. There are two empty plugs on the LCM for these wires as well as an empty plug where the rear foglamp activation ground signal comes in from the European foglamp switch. Why they built a different harness for the USA models is beyond me!


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

DZeckhausen said:


> Headlight unit?


Err...switch.... 

Chris, post wohre


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> :dunno: I'm not even sure exactly what we need, what is available, and what will be tough to find. uch:
> 
> I do have a contact in Munich but I am not sure when his next trip to the states is...might be a while.
> 
> Chris


I have a personal Fed-Ex account  Oh Dave are ya out there with any other wisdom to share? Viet? Dave K? Bueller? Bueller?


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## vietsb (Apr 8, 2003)

avionics12 said:


> Will I have to buy the full Hella kit or is it possible to buy just the light housing itself?





Ågent99 said:


> I think those of us with 2001+ could easily sell the Celis rears on eBay and recoup some money and get the Hella kit...pehaps also on eBay.


Herein lies the potential problem. I've talked to 3 folks that accidentally bought the 2001+ US-Spec lenses for their pre-2001 off eBay. They attempted to follow my DIY write-up and found that the notching and drilling wasn't quite the same because the backside of the US assemblies is different than the Euro-assemblies. You can see below how the Euro assembly looks adapted into my '97.










If someone (Ågent99 :eeps: DaveZ) can e-mail me a similar 640x480 pic of their 2001+ tail light, I'd like to post it on my site. Well, these folks say that they can't get the US-Spec light to fit properly into their taillight bucket. Is it possible that the bucket is shaped differently? I seem to recall that the openings for where the bulbs fit thru did seem positioned differently, so it's very possible there would have to be more extensive bodywork mods to get the US-Spec to fit in pre-2001 cars.

So for you 2001+ guys wanting to convert to Euro assemblies, I wonder if you'll have a fitment problem. Hey, come to think of it, I've got a spare "repaired" driver-side Euro CELIS light. Ågent99, we should hook-up sometime and see about fitting it into your ride. Although the wiring might need mod'ing (see below).

Next problem is that the US-Spec cars have at least one more wire in the harness. I compared my "coverted" harnesses versus a 2001+ that had OEM CELIS wiring and it looked different. Plugging a US-Spec into my converted harnesses also didn't seem to work properly. Again, if anyone :dunno: can take a picture similar to below, and/or better yet, hunt down the wiring as per my chart below, we can put this to rest by mapping every difference between the US and Euro-spec, besides the input voltage into each bulb (hell, we *could* do that too!) since the CELIS LED's take a lower voltage.













[TD]
*Wire Color
[TD]Function
[TR]
[TD]Violet/Purple Stripe
[TD]Parking Light LED CELIS Stripes
[TR]
[TD]Yellow/Black Stripe
[TD]Fog Light Bulb
[TR]
[TD]Yellow/White Stripe
[TD]Reverse Bulb
[TR]
[TD]Brown
[TD]Ground
[TR]
[TD]Green/Blue Stripe
[TD]Turn Signal Bulb
[TR]
[TD]Brown/Black Stripe
[TD]Brake Light Bulb
*


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

vietsb said:


> Ågent99, we should hook-up sometime and see about fitting it into your ride. Although the wiring might need mod'ing (see below).


Viet, c'mon over anytime. Just give me a buzz at my home number to see if I'm home (and when am I never home??) and we'll do it up. Takes 2 minutes and 9 seconds to yank off a tailight.

Chris


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

vietsb said:


> If someone (Ågent99 :eeps: DaveZ) can e-mail me a similar 640x480 pic of their 2001+ tail light, I'd like to post it on my site. Well, these folks say that they can't get the US-Spec light to fit properly into their taillight bucket. Is it possible that the bucket is shaped differently? I seem to recall that the openings for where the bulbs fit thru did seem positioned differently, so it's very possible there would have to be more extensive bodywork mods to get the US-Spec to fit in pre-2001 cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*

How's this?*


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## vietsb (Apr 8, 2003)

avionics12 said:


> How's this?


Thanks avionics12! :thumbup: Sounds like FTP might be daunting, but if you're able to attach pics to this forum, you're half way there!

As a teaser for you US-assembly guys, here's my Euro upgrade fogs. :neener:










As you can see by avionics' pics, the bucket is fairly different, but almost looks like it should fit the euro's. Not sure why the other guys had issues placing 2001+ US-spec lights into their pre-2001's, but I did notice when comparing the pics that the side of the bucket closest to the outer side of the car had a different shape to it. I wonder if that matters? His wiring is also missing a wire, but that's easy --> it's probably for the rear fog lights.

I just took notes on the voltages and pin numbers used for the right and left harnesses when going thru the Euro upgrade voltage converters, so if I ever hook-up w/ Ågent99, we'll get to the bottom of the differences. If it wasn't for the lack of a rear fog socket, I would have traded w/ someone long ago to get the side LED's the US-Spec has.


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## ALEV8 (Oct 3, 2003)

showoff!


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## jbshin (Apr 11, 2003)

vietsb said:


> manual Xenon level control (thx Tyrone & Sheldon :thumbup: )


I have seen the same on rental 5-series (love that diesel engine) and some other cars, without xenon lights. It seemed to allow the driver to lower the light aim from the normal position, but not the other way around. Is that the case?

I was thinking about putting the fog lights in, but glad I read your posts before I bought the parts. (I live in Germany, but has US spec 530i)Perhaps I will have to see how much the light housing is at the dealer. If any of the Mod Meisters is interested in buying European parts, I can help you with shipping. Euro is stronger than $, but I still find many things are less expensive here. I cannot do large quantities, but a few should be doable. Contact me via email.

John


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

jbshin said:


> I was thinking about putting the fog lights in, but glad I read your posts before I bought the parts. (I live in Germany, but has US spec 530i)Perhaps I will have to see how much the light housing is at the dealer. If any of the Mod Meisters is interested in buying European parts, I can help you with shipping. Euro is stronger than $, but I still find many things are less expensive here. I cannot do large quantities, but a few should be doable. Contact me via email.
> 
> John


Hi John,

Thanks a lot  Check your PM for more info.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

jbshin said:


> I have seen the same on rental 5-series (love that diesel engine) and some other cars, without xenon lights. It seemed to allow the driver to lower the light aim from the normal position, but not the other way around. Is that the case?
> 
> I was thinking about putting the fog lights in, but glad I read your posts before I bought the parts. (I live in Germany, but has US spec 530i)Perhaps I will have to see how much the light housing is at the dealer. If any of the Mod Meisters is interested in buying European parts, I can help you with shipping. Euro is stronger than $, but I still find many things are less expensive here. I cannot do large quantities, but a few should be doable. Contact me via email.
> 
> John


Correct. Headlamp aim adjustment is ONLY for cars not equipped with HIDs, and IIRC does not feature on US or Canadian models even if they do not have HIDs.

The beam adjustment it downwards only, for obvious reasons.


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

vietsb said:


> As a teaser for you US-assembly guys, here's my Euro upgrade fogs. :neener:


OK That was enough! :bawling:

Does anyone have the european part numbers for the following ?

Applies to 2001+ E39

Left rear tail light housing
Right rear tail light housing
Turn signal bulb holder
Reverse light bulb holder
Brake light bulb holder
Fog light bulb holder

Is this info available in the ETK that I keep hearing about and should get? :eeps:


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## DZeckhausen (Mar 11, 2003)

avionics12 said:


> Does anyone have the european part numbers for the following ?
> 
> Applies to 2001+ E39
> 
> ...


Here you go:

Left lens assembly: 63-21-6-902-527
Right lens assembly: 63-21-6-902-528
Socket: 63-21-1-379-399
Socket Housing: 61-13-8-369-702
Bushing Contact: 61-13-0-006-626


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## jbshin (Apr 11, 2003)

Sorry it took sometime. It has been a bit busy with work and driving around in the Alps ;-)

Left lens assembly: 63 21 6 902 527 127,60 EURO
Right lens assembly: 63 21 6 902 528 127,60 EURO
Socket: 63 21 1 379 399 3,58 EURO
Socket Housing: 61 13 8 369 702 0,38 EURO
Bushing Contact: 61 13 0 006 626 0,79 EURO

The Bluetooth kit for the pre-03/2002 cars is available in Germany. It is about 1100 Euros for the parts and the installation. I am trying to find out the part number(s) and the price for the parts.

John


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

jbshin said:


> Sorry it took sometime. It has been a bit busy with work and driving around in the Alps ;-)
> 
> Left lens assembly: 63 21 6 902 527 127,60 EURO
> Right lens assembly: 63 21 6 902 528 127,60 EURO
> ...


Thanks for the info John. More on this later I'm sure. :thumbup:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

avionics12 said:


> Thanks for the info John. More on this later I'm sure. :thumbup:


Hmmm, about ~$260 for the parts, eh?

I have my buddy checking on the exact same thing and also how he feels about dragging such items across the pond in his suitcase! Those rear lights aren't small....

Chris


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Hmmm, about ~$260 for the parts, eh?
> 
> I have my buddy checking on the exact same thing and also how he feels about dragging such items across the pond in his suitcase! Those rear lights aren't small....
> 
> Chris


Don't forget about the switch up front, contacts, etc. I have a complete list of parts if you need them.


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## vietsb (Apr 8, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> I have my buddy checking on the exact same thing and also how he feels about dragging such items across the pond in his suitcase!


But you guys will lose your cool side LED's!  hehe To bad there's been no clean solution to adapt the rear fog socket into US 2001+ CELIS assemblies.

Chris, I'm back in town, so I need to drop off some reimbursement and maybe we can poke around at the CELIS rear lights. I'll buzz ya sometime in the next couple of weeks.


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## vietsb (Apr 8, 2003)

andy_thomas said:


> Correct. Headlamp aim adjustment is ONLY for cars not equipped with HIDs, and IIRC does not feature on US or Canadian models even if they do not have HIDs.
> 
> The beam adjustment it downwards only, for obvious reasons.


Yes, it's a shame this feature is not easily available outside of Europe. I'm not a huge fan of the auto-level because I like to be able to predict my headlight beam pattern. I know "not blinding" people is the goal of auto-level, but still...

I had my headlights adjusted to factory spec at a dealership with the adjustment knob set at "1", so I *can* raise and lower my HIDs (upgraded from Halogen to Xenon AE's w/o auto-level).

Here's a view of the adjustment range. This is right off the hood, so the results are even more dramatic on the road. I like it! :thumbup:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

vietsb said:


> But you guys will lose your cool side LED's!  hehe To bad there's been no clean solution to adapt the rear fog socket into US 2001+ CELIS assemblies.
> 
> Chris, I'm back in town, so I need to drop off some reimbursement and maybe we can poke around at the CELIS rear lights. I'll buzz ya sometime in the next couple of weeks.


Side LEDs??? :dunno:

"Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?!"

Chris


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## vietsb (Apr 8, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Side LEDs??? :dunno:
> 
> "Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis?!"


US-spec cars have the rear CELIS light bars _in addition to_ 4 LED's that illuminate towards the side of the car for DOT-approval.

Courtesy of Jimmy540i:










You can see them in the bottom left pic. You'll notice my Euro-lenses shown in posts above don't have them.

You wanna be legit? :dunno: hehe


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

vietsb said:


> US-spec cars have the rear CELIS light bars _in addition to_ 4 LED's that illuminate towards the side of the car for DOT-approval.
> 
> You wanna be legit? :dunno: hehe


Sheeet!! Okay, forget it...I will have to come up with a clean way to modify what I've got...I guess it'll be cheaper in the long run and it'll be more fun and exciting! 

Chris


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## DZeckhausen (Mar 11, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Sheeet!! Okay, forget it...I will have to come up with a clean way to modify what I've got...I guess it'll be cheaper in the long run and it'll be more fun and exciting!


Me too! I didn't realize we would have to give up those funky LED dots in order to get the rear foglights to work easily. 
:bawling:

It's back to the drawing board!


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

DZeckhausen said:


> Me too! I didn't realize we would have to give up those funky LED dots in order to get the rear foglights to work easily.
> :bawling:
> 
> It's back to the drawing board!


I didn't even know I had funky LED dots...but I know I wanna keep 'em!!! 

Curse you all to heck, Viet!! 

Chris :irate:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

Ågent99 said:


> I didn't even know I had funky LED dots...but I know I wanna keep 'em!!!
> 
> Curse you all to heck, Viet!!
> 
> Chris :irate:


Unless...of course...naw....

We could modify the new Euro light housing to contain the funky LED dots? 

uch:

Chris


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## vietsb (Apr 8, 2003)

DZeckhausen said:


> It's back to the drawing board!


Hmmm, sounds like an East vs. West Coast competition is brewing... :rofl:


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> I didn't even know I had funky LED dots...but I know I wanna keep 'em!!!
> 
> Curse you all to heck, Viet!!
> 
> Chris :irate:


AAARGH!!! I did not see the 4 LED lights :bawling:


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## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

avionics12 said:


> AAARGH!!! I did not see the 4 LED lights :bawling:


Guess what?!

I'll have those Euro rear housings coming to me next week. I didn't ask my contact over there to actually get them for me but he must have misinterpreted my inquiry about them.

Well, I guess we can compare them now and maybe come up with something that might work! :tsk:

Chris


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## avionics12 (Jun 7, 2003)

Ågent99 said:


> Guess what?!
> 
> I'll have those Euro rear housings coming to me next week. I didn't ask my contact over there to actually get them for me but he must have misinterpreted my inquiry about them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the update Chris. I have been a little sidetracked lately. :bawling:


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