# About the shipping problems and finger pointing



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I had a very illuminating conversation with some people at BMW NA today.

BMW is preparing a written response which I will post in this thread tomorrow or Monday.

All I can say for now is that the issues are definitely not black-and-white.

More to follow...


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## LightWerkz (May 8, 2007)

interesting!


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

Excellent, thank you for following up with them!


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I was happy to although it was an uncomfortable conversation in some respects due to some of the comments made in some of the threads.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

Does it have something to do with cars being damaged, therefore delayed at preparation center for repairs; and not disclosing (lying) situation to the owners? :eeps:


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## BMW Power (Jul 25, 2007)

I guess I missed this discussion, what is the issue?


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## stan01 (Jan 15, 2010)

Transparency is good for everyone except people with something to hide. Hopefully BMW NA will acknowledge the problems at Port Hueneme and explain to us what they are doing to fix what appears to be a process that is operating outside its control bands.

ED cars are paid for months beforehand. The definite perception I got during my 12 week wait including an alleged 5 week customs delay is that no one except the owner gives a rats behind about these cars. Sure there is sympathy when I call the dealer or BMW to ask what's going on, but no one is being proactive and no one is willing or able to engage to fix problems. ED buyers bought a car from a BMW dealer selling a BMW product; we shouldn't have to be calling Government officials and BMW's contractors (NYK, Harms, Amports, and Waggoner) to get a truthful answer about what's happening and to get our paid for cars through the system in a reasonable amount of time.


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## SlamMan (Oct 8, 2009)

Interesting indeed. I'm at 10 weeks from drop off and my boat, the Selene Leader, just docked a couple days ago. Since my car took 6 weeks from drop off to departure, the delay was definitely Harms. If it had been about 2 weeks, like most others seem to be, I'd probably have my car already.

I'll be surprised if the statement has very much meat to it but you never know.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

SlamMan said:


> Interesting indeed. I'm at 10 weeks from drop off and my boat, the Selene Leader, just docked a couple days ago. Since my car took 6 weeks from drop off to departure, the delay was definitely Harms. If it had been about 2 weeks, like most others seem to be, I'd probably have my car already.


But from drop-off to departure, there are multiple variables, such as where you dropped off, where the car was trucked or driven to, when it got to port, when the next available ship was leaving, etc.

If everything failed to line up - from when you dropped off to when a truck came to pick up the car to when it got to the port - it could just be that it was just a question of timing.

So what city did you drop your car off in?


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

stan01 said:


> Transparency is good for everyone except people with something to hide. Hopefully BMW NA will acknowledge the problems at Port Hueneme and explain to us what they are doing to fix what appears to be a process that is operating outside its control bands.
> 
> ED cars are paid for months beforehand. The definite perception I got during my 12 week wait including an alleged 5 week customs delay is that no one except the owner gives a rats behind about these cars. Sure there is sympathy when I call the dealer or BMW to ask what's going on, but no one is being proactive and no one is willing or able to engage to fix problems. ED buyers bought a car from a BMW dealer selling a BMW product; we shouldn't have to be calling Government officials and BMW's contractors (NYK, Harms, Amports, and Waggoner) to get a truthful answer about what's happening and to get our paid for cars through the system in a reasonable amount of time.


Exactly right. Companies pay a lot of money to have researchers and consultants find out what their customers are thinking and how to better serve them....although I'm sure they would have preferred to avoid the publicity about these issues, they have a great opportunity to better serve their customers by making a few small inexpensive changes to their process.


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## fishskis (Dec 18, 2004)

Looking forward to hearing BMWNA's explanation of things. Thank you for talking to them and relaying the information. As I have said previously, I have had only very positive dealings with the ED people over the course of my 3 ED's, one of which had problems that BMW acknowledged and took care of in a very professional and ethical manner.

Hopefully we'll get some clarification and perspective on the real situation instead of just relying on anecdotal evidence and stories of delayed redeliveries by understandably frustrated EDers.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

fishskis said:


> Looking forward to hearing BMWNA's explanation of things. Thank you for talking to them and relaying the information. As I have said previously, I have had only very positive dealings with the ED people over the course of my 3 ED's, one of which had problems that BMW acknowledged and took care of in a very professional and ethical manner.
> 
> Hopefully we'll get some clarification and perspective on the real situation instead of just relying on anecdotal evidence and stories of delayed redeliveries by understandably frustrated EDers.


Anecdotal?  really? So the posters here are unreliable but what BMW says will be factual and scientific? :tsk:


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

I am glad and grateful that JSpira is following up with BMWNA.

However, I really hope it's not a load of feel-good-but-empty promises or a finger-pointing exercise.

I would like to hear what they are doing specifically to correct issues and a reasonable shipping time guarantee.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

enigma said:


> I really hope it's not a load of feel-good-but-empty promises or a finger-pointing exercise.


well put, but I'm afraid that is what we are going to get. BMW, as any business, is there to make money (nothing's wrong with that) if the bottom line looks good and few costumers gets unhappy in the process who cares :eeps:


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

stan01 said:


> Transparency is good for everyone except people with something to hide.


Good point, this is all I was asking for. In my case, honest answer would be enough and appropriated. BMW NA, choose to tell me that car needs software updates (reason for 2-3 weeks delay at preparation center) but in fact car was undergoing repair to the rear bumper which was damaged during transportation (happy with repair outcome). I learned about the repair recently form the different dealer then the one I purchased car from. Also, as you mentioned stan "5 week custom" delay is a standard standard excuse dealer use.


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

I understand the issues are probably coming for numerous areas (customs, EH Harms, BMW, Amports, etc); however, my problem with the whole process is that whenever I call one of these companies up to get a status, the person on the other end of the phone seems pretty annoyed that I'm bothering them...

The guys at US Customs seem pretty nice, but I've had rather poor experiences with BMW ED and EH Harms so far. :thumbdwn: EH Harms has been pretty condescending, and BMW ED didn't even bother looking up anything for me and said to just wait and see. I don't know about you guys, but if I acted this way at my company I wouldn't be around very long...


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## mason (Jun 8, 2006)

So just to confirm, the conversations is about shipping back to States?

Did you call them or they reached out to you?

I have to say that the wait is terrible but so far BMW has been responsive to my inquiries and communicative to VPC for any things that they might have missed. 

And yes that I do like to hear some clarification on things like why it seems like cars most likely to sit at the port for at least 7 days before getting onto the boat? Like how many days does the truck typically take to get the car from a drop off point to a port?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

mason said:


> And yes that I do like to hear some clarification on things like why it seems like cars most likely to sit at the port for at least 7 days before getting onto the boat? Like how many days does the truck typically take to get the car from a drop off point to a port?


A car sits waiting for a boat sometimes for more than 7 days - it all depends on when the vessels are scheduled to leave. Depending on the time of year, there could be a few vessels leaving within a few days of one another or it could be a two week interval. Plus, of course, the car has to sit for 72 hours once it arrives before it could go onto any boat (even if one is leaving the next day).

Regarding trucking, are you talking about once the car is on a truck - or when it's waiting for a truck (which could be a week or more in some cases)?


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## SlamMan (Oct 8, 2009)

JSpira said:


> But from drop-off to departure, there are multiple variables, such as where you dropped off, where the car was trucked or driven to, when it got to port, when the next available ship was leaving, etc.
> 
> If everything failed to line up - from when you dropped off to when a truck came to pick up the car to when it got to the port - it could just be that it was just a question of timing.
> 
> So what city did you drop your car off in?


I dropped off in Zurich. It would be one thing if things failed to line up and the car was redelivered within 10 weeks instead of 6-8. Now it's going to be 11-12 weeks providing there are no stateside delays. Over 10 weeks is late to me. I'm sure my CA hasn't done a ton of ED sales but he said he's never seen anything over 10 weeks.

I don't see why it shouldn't have made it on the Rhea Leader. That ship didn't depart for 4 weeks after I dropped off. I think at least one local buyer was on that ship and should be taking redelivery within the next couple days. I believe there was another ship that departed before the Rhea Leader that my car could have reasonably made it on.


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## gesoffen (Jun 18, 2004)

SlamMan said:


> I dropped off in Zurich. It would be one thing if things failed to line up and the car was redelivered within 10 weeks instead of 6-8. Now it's going to be 11-12 weeks providing there are no stateside delays. Over 10 weeks is late to me. I'm sure my CA hasn't done a ton of ED sales but he said he's never seen anything over 10 weeks.


I can understand your irritation especially if another local customer will have his car 2+ weeks before you even though you dropped off at the same time. However, BMW does state 8-10 weeks from drop off to redelivery if you drop off in Germany - more if you drop off else where.

From the BMW ED Website:
"All cars depart from Bremerhaven, Germany. It will take approximately 6-8 weeks to the East coast and 8-10 weeks to the West Coast from drop off date for a car to arrive at your BMW center for final delivery. Be advised that if you drop off your car at any other location than Germany that arrival time will be longer. "

Regardless, the redelivery process seems to be the biggest pitfall of an otherwise very unique and pleasurable experience. Unfortunately, it is also the part of the process where BMW AG and BMW USA have the least control.


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

bimmer_fam said:


> If that is the case, it should be an easy fix IMO... All BMW needs to do is make EH Harms financially responsible for delays and things will suddenly start moving snappy...


Liquidated damages for delays :thumbup:


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

mrdirosa said:


> Liquidated damages for delays :thumbup:


I dunno if there is such thing as "delay insurance", but it sounds pretty appealing right about now... :angel:


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

bimmer_fam said:


> I dunno if there is such thing as "delay insurance", but it sounds pretty appealing right about now... :angel:


There is - it's included in contracts (I get to deal with that at work). If you don't meet a deadline you get fined $X/day until you do. It hurts.


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## kcdude (Sep 17, 2004)

mrdirosa said:


> I've spoken with the customs lead dude @ Port Hueneme - he's got things down pat, no issues there. BMW is not getting the release forms from EH Harms once the vehicles are cleared by customs/USDA. I see where BMW is actually requesting to be sent these when clearance and release occurs.
> 
> Definitely EH Harms :thumbdwn:


My issues were noted in another thread so I'll summarize both issues as they were more on the BMW ED dept end:

1) I could never get a straight story from either EH Harms or BMW ED dept on who dropped the ball in getting the invoice paperwork to EH Harms so they could place an entry in the Customs system and pay the duty. EH Harms said it was never sent. BMW ED says it was sent over 4 weeks ago by one person, another says it was never sent. Since the person in the BMW ED office responsible for this (or at least my car) was on vacation it held mine up in Customs for some time. So there is definitely some room for improvement in both process and communication here as it would have sat in Customs until the person returned from vacation.

2) Once Customs released the car (a few hours after the above was done) then there was a breakdown in communicating this back to BMW ED dept so the VPC could inititate the work. I personally spoke to EH Harms about this, they sent the clearance document four times (self reported, not document by me), and then they copied my on the final email. Finally the ED dept acknowledged receipt and the car was released from the VPC 4 hours later since there were no repairs required. One explanation is that this communication comes in a batch notification daily, weekly whatever...but EH Harms can also see it real-time and in my case forwarded the release document a hour after it was released.

In my situation I needed to try and move up my re-delivery time at the PC due to some other business travel conflicts. I interjected myself in the process and it definitely moved things along more quickly (one day to clear customs, a few hours to clear the VPC). But I'm guessing that this was more the exception than usual business practice. I know first hand that the BMW ED folks give broad timelines, blame customs and for me, were very rude. It is also clear to me that all re-deliveries are not individually case managed by the ED staffers. It sounds like this is more of a batch verification process where you really don't have a sense of the actual work/status until it hits a certain status indicator on one of several different tracking systems. So when the customer gets involved the it just all falls down.

There is definitely room for process improvement along with some customer service training for the ED staffers...I hope this and other stories are communicated back to BMW as part of these discussions. I just think the typical ED customer wants this level of access to the status of their car and BMW needs to accommodate it. I look forward to their response.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

In my case time line, trail of emails between me, dealer and BMW NA ED indicates that BMW NA ED either has no idea what is going on or they tell you whatever works for them.
1) Pick Up and drop off car on Dec 18th, did not drive the car at all.
2) Emailed BMW NA ED for update on Feb 11th, ED replied stating car arrived on Feb 3rd cleared customs yesterday (Feb 10th). The car was shipped, and cleared customs fast enough for me, taking under account Holidays, weather ect.
3) Feb 17th response from BMW NA ED - car is waiting for U.S. Maps Installed. (I've had hard time commenting this one)
4) Mar 1st car arrived at Dealer and was picked up.
5) Few weeks ago, I took car for service to different dealer, and for the first time learned that the cars rear bumper undergone repair on Feb 17th.
#5 sums up BMW NA ED....


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

tlak77 said:


> In my case time line, trail of emails between me, dealer and BMW NA ED indicates that BMW NA ED either has no idea what is going on or they tell you whatever works for them.
> 1) Pick Up and drop off car on Dec 18th, did not drive the car at all.
> 2) Emailed BMW NA ED for update on Feb 11th, ED replied stating car arrived on Feb 3rd cleared customs yesterday (Feb 10th). The car was shipped, and cleared customs fast enough for me, taking under account Holidays, weather ect.
> 3) Feb 17th response from BMW NA ED - car is waiting for U.S. Maps Installed. (I've had hard time commenting this one)
> ...


I think really what needs to happen is to just simplify the process. ED customers just deal with BMW ED from start to finish...cut the dealer out.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

kcdude said:


> In my situation I needed to try and move up my re-delivery time at the PC due to some other business travel conflicts. I interjected myself in the process and it definitely moved things along more quickly (one day to clear customs, a few hours to clear the VPC). But I'm guessing that this was more the exception than usual business practice. I doubt that all re-deliveries are individually case managed by the ED staffers. It sounds like this is more of a batch verification process where you really don't have a sense of the actual work/status until it hits a certain status on one of several different tracking systems.
> .


Mine took only 1 day to get through VDC and be released to trucking. Car was released by customs on 21st of July, in VDC on 22nd and was at the dealer in SF on 23rd. This part I have nothing to complain about, except that the car arrived with two fairly deep and visible scratches on the bottom of the front bumper. It's still unclear who was responsible, but dealer guessed that it's probably damage incurred during trucking from port.


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## kcdude (Sep 17, 2004)

bimmer_fam said:


> Mine took only 1 day to get through VDC and be released to trucking. Car was released by customs on 21st of July, in VDC on 22nd and was at the dealer in SF on 23rd.


Sure doesn't sound like the VPC is dragging their feet once they get the release document. I'm just saying that if I didn't interject myself in the process then my car would have just sat in Customs for days waiting on EH Harms and then the VPC would have waited days for the release document before touching the car. I believe that to be the usual business practice which causes additional delays.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

kcdude said:


> I've seen this with many folks...supports my point that Customs is not holding up the process. Mine sat in Customs with "No Customs Hold" for days (verified by Port rep) waiting on EH Harms to enter the information they were supposed to recieve from the BMW ED dept. Once entered in the system then it was only two hours to confirm release.


The same here... my car was released from customs in 2 days after ship docked (according to people from m3post that were in contact with customs, all ED cars from that ship were released in 2 days), sat at the port for nearly a month , while ED department was feeding us stories about evil customs holding all ED cars...


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## SlamMan (Oct 8, 2009)

gesoffen said:


> I can understand your irritation especially if another local customer will have his car 2+ weeks before you even though you dropped off at the same time. However, BMW does state 8-10 weeks from drop off to redelivery if you drop off in Germany - more if you drop off else where.
> 
> From the BMW ED Website:
> "All cars depart from Bremerhaven, Germany. It will take approximately 6-8 weeks to the East coast and 8-10 weeks to the West Coast from drop off date for a car to arrive at your BMW center for final delivery. Be advised that if you drop off your car at any other location than Germany that arrival time will be longer. "
> ...


Well $hit. I've never seen that page. Had I, it definitely would have influenced my decision to drop off in Zurich. After searching around here I read enough posts that said it really didn't matter where you dropped off and it was just the luck of the draw; except for Munich where you might get a little better turn around.

I guess I don't have any reason to bitch at this point.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

SlamMan said:


> Well $hit. I've never seen that page. Had I, it definitely would have influenced my decision to drop off in Zurich. After searching around here I read enough posts that said it really didn't matter where you dropped off and it was just the luck of the draw; except for Munich where you might get a little better turn around.
> 
> I guess I don't have any reason to bitch at this point.


That is BS, trust me... The delays on the West Coast are not related to where you dropped of in EU. In fact, outie form this forum dropped one of his cars during recent ED in Munich, another a week or so later in Frankfurt and waited for both of his cars that were booked on the same ship (!?) more than 10 weeks, if I recall correctly. My car was on that ship too, took longer than 10 weeks to re-deliver (dropped off in Paris).


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

the J-Man said:


> Bimmer_fan - what an incredibly bad customer relations experience. This is the type of thing that WILL lead to the downfall of the company in the long run. The excellent engineers at BMW can only do so much to keep people coming back.
> 
> This tells you all you need to know about BMW.
> BBB Listings for:
> ...


According to the BBB report,



> BBB processed a total of 61 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 61 complaints closed in 36 months, 20 were closed in the last year.


61 complaints out of... how many cars sold? :dunno:

The problem I have always had with BBB ratings is that there is no way of knowing if the person making the complaint is a crackpot who will never be satisfied or a legitimate customer.

Regardless, 61 is a tiny number given the number of cars sold.

Regarding the comparison to Hyundai and VW, all I can say is that this is not an apples-to-apples comparison since they companies serve different markets at different pricepoints.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

SlamMan said:


> Well $hit. I've never seen that page. Had I, it definitely would have influenced my decision to drop off in Zurich. After searching around here I read enough posts that said it really didn't matter where you dropped off and it was just the luck of the draw; except for Munich where you might get a little better turn around.
> 
> I guess I don't have any reason to bitch at this point.


The following has been well-documented here in the forum.

The hierarchy for drop-off/redelivery speed is the following:
- Bremerhaven
- München
- Other German locations
- Locations outside of Germany

It can take a car two weeks to get to port from outside Germany I should add.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

bimmer_fam said:


> That is BS, trust me... The delays on the West Coast are not related to where you dropped of in EU. In fact, outie form this forum dropped one of his cars during recent ED in Munich, another a week or so later in Frankfurt and waited for both of his cars that were booked on the same ship (!?) more than 10 weeks, if I recall correctly. My car was on that ship too, took longer than 10 weeks to re-deliver (dropped off in Paris).


The delays on the west coast are unrelated but dropping off outside of Bremerhaven and Munich will typically take longer.

There are fewer vessels that go to the west coast so the chances of outie´s two cars regrouping on the vessel were actually good. For the rest of the country, the car dropped off in Munich almost certainly would have arrived first.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

JSpira said:


> The delays on the west coast are unrelated but dropping off outside of Bremerhaven and Munich will typically take longer.
> 
> *There are fewer vessels that go to the west coast so the chances of outie´s two cars regrouping on the vessel were actually good. * For the rest of the country, the car dropped off in Munich almost certainly would have arrived first.


Not true, there were two ships departing Bremenhaven earlier bound for West Coast. Anyway, my beef is not so much about 20 days before car left Europe on the ship, but with a month in "customs"...
You can't deny that there is a serious problem and I'm simply feed up with BS that we all getting from BMW ED department.

BTW When I dropped off in Paris, I asked the clerk for potential ETA to Bremenhaven, he said that they definitely had a truck leaving that week. Re-delivery to West Coast has more "variables" nowadays as oppose to what we've seen in a few years I've been reading this forum...


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## the J-Man (Jul 31, 2009)

JSpira said:


> all I can say is that this is not an apples-to-apples comparison since they companies serve different markets at different pricepoints.


 That's my point. Stepping up to BMW at a higher price point gets you worse service than Hyundai?

It could be argued that the luxury buyers are more likely to complain, but having helped several people buy Hyundai's, I can attest that they run a first class customer oriented operation. All complaints are resolved promptly and completely.


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## TGray5 (Jan 22, 2002)

SlamMan said:


> Well $hit. I've never seen that page. Had I, it definitely would have influenced my decision to drop off in Zurich. After searching around here I read enough posts that said it really didn't matter where you dropped off and it was just the luck of the draw; except for Munich where you might get a little better turn around.
> 
> I guess I don't have any reason to bitch at this point.


 I guess the way I look at it is this...if I get unlucky and miss the ship that just left and have to wait longer to get on the next one or if I chose to drop off in a remote spot or if my car is damaged in shipment or the dockworkers are on strike, etc., then I can understand a longer delivery time and that's part of International shipping, but if my car that I own and am paying for sits for 30 days because of a paperwork snafu or an oversight etc. , then I am not pleased....EVEN if it is within the 10 week window that BMW lists. I received my car in about 7 weeks in California which is pretty good, but it still sat on the dock for 10 days more than necessary after Customs had cleared it.


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## mrdirosa (Jun 15, 2006)

bimmer_fam said:


> Not true, there were two ships departing Bremenhaven earlier bound for West Coast. Anyway, my beef is not so much about 20 days before car left Europe on the ship, but with a month in "customs"...
> You can't deny that there is a serious problem and I'm simply feed up with BS that we all getting from BMW ED department.
> 
> BTW When I dropped off in Paris, I asked the clerk for potential ETA to Bremenhaven, he said that they definitely had a truck leaving that week. Re-delivery to West Coast has more "variables" nowadays as oppose to what we've seen in a few years I've been reading this forum...


I'm thinking BMW really believes the cars are still in customs, as Harms hasn't sent them the release paperwork...remember, BMW can't really even touch the cars until Harms informs them that the vehicle is clear.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

7 weeks re-delivery is hardly anything to be complaining about... I'd be happy camper with such result. A week to 10 days in processing from ship docking seems very reasonable IMO...


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

mrdirosa said:


> I'm thinking BMW really believes the cars are still in customs, as Harms hasn't sent them the release paperwork...remember, BMW can't really even touch the cars until Harms informs them that the vehicle is clear.


Frankly, I don't care what they "believe"... They need to stop treating customers like annoying bugs and push whoever needs pushing or implement a system that would stimulate no delays attitude. Not an unreasonable request IMO.


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm a bit late to this party, but I dropped off my car in Munich on May 22 and logging into my BMW account I see my car is still at the VPC - 11 weeks later! The car got to the VPC in the third week in June. I guess I would be really annoyed if my car was still sitting at the VPC, but I picked up the car from my dealer on 30 June. The one week wait with zero details was agonizing enough without many of the OP's extended waits in customs. Maybe their website tracking will get fixed too.

Minor griping (with minor humor thrown in) aside, I really appreciate Jonathan's efforts in working with BMW. From my personal experience once a car hits the US shores, Mercedes isn't any better at keeping their customers informed.


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

This forum is so valuable.
The frustrations run high at times and it seems some intend to attack others, but overall we seem to help with contacts, experience and great wisdom.
Thanks Johnathan and others. Your help with ED is tremendously appreciated. Showing up to the Welt and signing "das bok" in itself is somehow reassuring for ED festers.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

b-y said:


> BUT WHY BLAME THE MESSENGER? I, for one, appreciate the help.


I'm sorry, but what was THE MESSAGE again? "I can quite spell it out, but BMW is working on a resolution". Is that the big news? After many calls and emails from frustrated customers they finally decided to do their jobs? 
Personal attacks are not cool IMO, but empty messages are...well, empty. Just like that lame excuse of a message posted by someone from BMW NA PR group.

Help IS appreciated, but this is not helpful IMHO.


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

dunderhi said:


> I'm a bit late to this party, but I dropped off my car in Munich on May 22 and logging into my BMW account I see my car is still at the VPC - 11 weeks later! The car got to the VPC in the third week in June. I guess I would be really annoyed if my car was still sitting at the VPC, but I picked up the car from my dealer on 30 June. The one week wait with zero details was agonizing enough without many of the OP's extended waits in customs. Maybe their website tracking will get fixed too.
> 
> Minor griping (with minor humor thrown in) aside, I really appreciate Jonathan's efforts in working with BMW. From my personal experience once a car hits the US shores, Mercedes isn't any better at keeping their customers informed.


FYI dunderhi,

It certainly hasn't been a party for those of us affected and I haven't read of much East coast Customs/redelivery extended delays. The problems of the last 2 months have mainly been related to West coast/Port Heuneme. Any East coast ED'ers feel free tospeak up and correct me if I have mispoken.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

It sounds like I need to start tracking my 550i which was dropped off at Bremerhaven on July 26. It does not show up yet on the Wallenius web site. According to the BMW web site it is still awaiting transport. It was supposed to take up to 5 days to be processed and clear German Customs. It was supposed to ship on August 5 with arrival in the US on August 18.

For some reason I got the invoice for the second lease payment which is due on August 8. It is my understanding that the second lease payment is skipped and that I should not have to make lease payment until September 8. Now I need to call about this also on Monday.


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## Stevarino (May 14, 2002)

M FUNF said:


> :typing: :soapbox: Just to throw a little gasoline on the fire, :bawling::wailing:: I frankly do not see the overriding concern about how fast the car gets here. But, then whatever I get on an ED adventure is just an addition to the stable, not my only ride. :thumbup::thumbs: But all the calls to Harms, Shipping companies, boat tracking sites, BMWNA, surely do not indear the ED program to those providing it. With enough pissing and moaning by what has come to sound like a bunch of spoiled brats (I want my new toy, NOW mommy!!!). Maybe the companies will decide the negative reaction of the customers is reason enough to cancel the whole program? :dunno: Now that would make me. Speculation about damage to your car can easily be discovered by having your service advisor give you a print out on the car from the key, all service done by BMW will be on the record.  After all it is just a car just like an Aveo, Punta, or Pacer, not your manhood, or womanhood (or a substitute for same ), hopefully not your personality, if this is a status symbol of importance to you then you have no status, so get over it, sometimes things take longer than we would like, so man up and get over the wait, sooner or later the car will arrive.:beerchug: My nomex suit is on, :flame: comments are invited. :yikes:


My sentiments exactly. Well said.

If I want a car this afternoon I can go to the dealer and buy one. If I want to save some money and have a little adventure with the car, I can do ED knowing up front the car will be "lost" for several weeks during the shipping process.


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## snohflake (Jun 24, 2007)

M FUNF said:


> In my 4 ED's I have not waited more than 8 weeks. Yet, It Is Only Transportation, and I am not so foolish as to put myself in a box where I am waiting for transportation. Yeah I had a little fun with the icons, been away for a few days in Indianapolis. My main point is quit whining, and bothering everyone along the chain, it is like the people obsessing over the build data on the BMW web site, we know it is wrong much of the time yet people are worried about what the site says. I think, (yes I do contrary to some intimations) people are suffering from access to too much information, (read JS articles on information overload, sort of a corollary). if a watched pot never boils, then maybe a tracked car never arrives? I happily await JS's report from the oracles on the mountaintop, or at least from BMWNA base camp.


Wow. That's rude. Maybe by our 4th ED "we will know it's wrong much of the time".  The wiki suggests checking the status to make sure it's the right build. Call me crazy but I would prefer to pickup the right car after spending $50k and traveling to Europe. It's not obsessing. It's called buyer due diligence. And guess what, in our case the build on the BMW NA site *did* accurately reflect that our order was wrong, we had enough time to bring it to our CA's attention, and it got corrected (fingers crossed). Will our lives fall apart if it's not the right car at the Welt? Of course not, but there is nothing wrong with being proactive about a large purchase.

Back to the subject of the thread . . . Jonathan, thanks for all the information you provide here. It has helped us better understand the process which in turn has helped us set/adjust our expectations.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Stevarino said:


> My sentiments exactly. Well said.
> 
> If I want a car this afternoon I can go to the dealer and buy one. If I want to save some money and have a little adventure with the car, I can do ED knowing up front the car will be "lost" for several weeks during the shipping process.


There are limits as to much "lost" time is acceptable. Clearly gross sloppiness and indifference on the part of BMW NA has crept into Euro Delivery for California participants. The cars should not go into the abyss and be forgotten about. Clearly BMW needs to track Euro Delivery cars to identify if they get stuck or lost and then check into it.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

People, we have a member who over the years has developed an exceptional relationship with BMW (little things like being the first customer at the Welt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Welt, having a 2 hour sit down with BMW NA exec's) and is willing to intercede on *our* behalf. His reward for doing this, has been to be acused of being a corporate shill.

All of my dealings, both on this board and PM's, with Herr Spira have been friendly and very useful. I would hate to see us lose such a valuable resource.

Like any other human endeavor the BMW ED program is not perfect, let's try to minimize the damage while addressing the issues.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

Stevarino said:


> My sentiments exactly. Well said.
> 
> If I want a car this afternoon I can go to the dealer and buy one. If I want to save some money and have a little adventure with the car, I can do ED knowing up front the car will be "lost" for several weeks during the shipping process.


Thank you Stevarino, Love Annapolis we used to live on Spa Creek many year ago, and were just back in June for a Wedding and Reception at the Yacht Club.

My apologies to those who " Piss and Moan" about not getting their cars, this is Anecdotal but maybe Pissing and moaning does work.

Lawrence , Kansas, December 12, 2008

A Kansas farm wife called the local phone company to report her telephone failed to ring when her friends called - and that on the few occasions, when it did ring, her dog always moaned right before the phone rang.

The telephone repairman proceeded to the scene, curious to see this psychic dog or senile lady. He climbed a telephone pole, hooked in his test set, and dialed the subscriber's house.

The phone didn't ring right away, but then the dog moaned and the telephone began to ring.

Climbing down from the pole, the telephone repairman found:

1 . The dog was tied to the telephone system's ground wire with a steel chain and collar.

2. The wire connection to the ground rod was loose.

3. The dog was receiving 90 volts of signaling current when the number was called.

4. After a couple of jolts, the dog would start moaning and then urinate.

5. The wet ground would complete the circuit, thus causing the phone to ring.

Which demonstrates that some problems CAN be fixed by pissing and moaning. :rofl:


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

snohflake said:


> Wow. That's rude.
> 
> Not for me,  I stated the BMW site is often wrong as many have attested and checking with the CA or the ED department usually resolves the issue. If yours was incorrectly configured and you checked and it was corrected bully for you and being proactive, I know that cars have been built that were not to the buyers specification, and BMW has sent people out in a car while a correct one was being built and sent to the US for them. I would be disappointed it I did not get the car I wanted but it would not ruin the whole trip, and I, would probably schedule another trip to pick it up. Not everyone has the luxury of time to do that I realize, but that would be my resolution to the problem.
> 
> Back to the subject of the thread . . . Jonathan, thanks for all the information you provide here. It has helped us better understand the process which in turn has helped us set/adjust our expectations.


Yes Thank You Jonathan, for looking into this your unique position gives you the ability to both broach this issue with BMW and report back, here as an "honest broker" for both sides. :thumbup:


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

I typically don't this on internet forums, as I find it useless, but just wanted to say one last thing to the "cool cats" observing the "pissing and moaning" form a distance: being obnoxious a-hole is very easy, it's a lot more difficult to put yourself in somebody else's shoes, get over yourself for a second to imagine that there might be different opinions on the subject...
Just something to think about while you wax your ride this weekend...


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## snohflake (Jun 24, 2007)

Heeeey! M FUNF! You hijacked my quote and stuck FUNF logic in there. How dare!

But you definitely made me laugh. :thumbup:

So, by your definition, what is rude for you? No, no . . . I'm too frightened to find out. :eeps:

Regarding the amount of time to take redelivery, having this knowledge has tipped the scales re. our financing decision . . . we are definitely going to purchase vs lease.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

bimmer_fam said:


> Just something to think about while you wax your ride this weekend...


Funny you should mention "rides".
The pictured bike is my wifes Low Rider.
Every year H-D has a few custom paint schemes, place your order Sept / Oct and sometime in March / April the dealer calls. So yes we've been there.
And being afraid of getting stuck with a two tone purple bike if we backed out, we had to put 25% as a deposit.


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## bimmer_fam (Apr 16, 2007)

sno_duc said:


> Funny you should mention "rides".
> The pictured bike is my wifes Low Rider.
> Every year H-D has a few custom paint schemes, place your order Sept / Oct and sometime in March / April the dealer calls. So yes we've been there.
> And being afraid of getting stuck with a two tone purple bike if we backed out, we had to put 25% as a deposit.


Now, this is a toy... So waiting for custom paint motorcycle that is most likely not my primary device for getting around and hauling family, etc., would be slightly different, don't you think?


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

Extravagance, most definitely.........and many would say that flying to Münich to take delivery at the BMW Welt is also.

My wife's deserves ever extravagance I can afford .


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## EYE4SPEED (Apr 19, 2010)

My car was dropped in Stuttgart on June 3rd. The car left for port on June 4th - confirmed with EH. My car sat at port waiting to be loaded on the Fidelio until June 29th???

The trip across to NJ was fairly quick and the processing was about a week. Car delivered on July 24th to the dealer, picked up on the 27th.

I called BMWNA and my CA multiple times during the process for updates. BMWNA told me that they have no information after it leaves Bremehaven? I could not believe this and asked to speak to a supervisor. This person told me I needed to talk to my CA. Of course, the CA wasn't even aware of the vessel tracking that I found on here. Needless to say, it is a nice program but being informed about status during redelivery is a complete joke.

I didn't mind the wait, but I expect someone to know where my car is and at what stage of re-delivery it is at all times (at minimum after it leaves the drop off / excluding ocean / after drop off at port to dealer).


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## Stevarino (May 14, 2002)

Harding said:


> There are limits as to much "lost" time is acceptable. Clearly gross sloppiness and indifference on the part of BMW NA has crept into Euro Delivery for California participants. The cars should not go into the abyss and be forgotten about. Clearly BMW needs to track Euro Delivery cars to identify if they get stuck or lost and then check into it.


BMW manufactures cars. They offer an excellent European Delivery option.

Once you pick up your car and have left the "WELT" BMW AG has done all it can do.

I know they have a working arrangement with European trucking companies and oceanic shipping companies but how could BMW have any control of these companies or their schedules?

I think BMW should add a disclaimer to the ED Purchase Agreement:

"I recognize I am getting a good deal on the price of this car and I will get some unforgettable driving experiences in Europe and the opportunity to "open it up" on the Autobahn. I also know I will have the opportunity to take some really cool photos of MY car in front of "European tourist sites like the Eiffel Tower."

In exchange for this, I will be cool about the redelivery schedule because I realize it is mostly out of the control of BMW and this is too good a deal to believe!

Signature--- ED customer
3 Copies: Customer, Dealer, BMW NA


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

Stevarino said:


> Once you pick up your car and have left the "WELT" BMW AG has done all it can do.


I disagree with this notion.

BMW offers the ED program, it states that you pick up a car in Munich, drop it off within a certain period of time at certain locations in Europe, and pick up the car at the North American dealership you originally purchased from.

Please note that I do not make a distinction between BMW AG, BMW US, or whichever other BMW entity is involved. ED as I understand it is part of BMW brand experience, and I am sure BMW management would not offer it if it were not beneficial for BMW.

I also do not believe for one moment that someone within BMW or its logistics chain intentionally holds up cars at the port. But it looks like there is a "situation" and am not so sure that BMW handles it as professionally as they should.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, I am not sweating if the car shows up a few days earlier or later. But what makes me wonder is that our car is apparently sitting at the port in SoCal for a month now, and still no redelivery scheduled or explanation given. This is too long.

And it makes me unhappy that - supposedly - if I had started earlier to call BMW, the port, customs and what have you, the car might be in our possession here in San Francisco already.

BMW certainly has an interest to provide excellent experience to their customers, from product to logistics, from service to repairs. Your assumption that "once you have left the WELT BMW has done all it can do" is not correct as evidenced by the fact that BMW does a lot after this milestone.

Now there is a problem, either an individual one or a systemic one. And it is starting to affect me. And that's why I am currently not a happy camper.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

Ok, how about this. BMW offers two different ED MSRP's, one at the current 7% discount with the current _level_ of service, and one at 2-3% discount with an employee assigned to track your car every step of the way, expedite paperwork, & inform you of it's progress.


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