# Lease Acquisition fee and Document fees.



## btinl (Jun 19, 2007)

I just worked out a deal for a 2014 X3. The deal seemed great until I got home and compared the lease acquisition fee and the document fee with my prior BMW lease paperwork. In the past, I had paid $725 for the acquisition fee and $108 for the document fee. This dealer is trying to charge me $925 for the acquisition fee and $459 for the document fee. This seems ridiculous. Has anyone ever seen a document fee this high?


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## MANDREWS (Dec 12, 2013)

Yes I have. The dealer proccessing fee is often times limited by the state. Here in Maryland it is $200. Down in VA it is $500. We get lots of customers that drive 30 minutes away and automatically save $300. I would check to see if your state either raised the limit since the last time you purchased or if the limit was always that high, and your dealer just raised it.


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## ae86pwr (Sep 2, 2004)

It's common that dealers mark-up the acq fees.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

MANDREWS said:


> Yes I have. The dealer proccessing fee is often times limited by the state. Here in Maryland it is $200. Down in VA it is $500. We get lots of customers that drive 30 minutes away and automatically save $300. I would check to see if your state either raised the limit since the last time you purchased or if the limit was always that high, and your dealer just raised it.


Also, I hear dealers tell people "Oh, that is set by the state", when in FACT the state law _limits_ the fee and dealers charge the limit- and try to confuse customer claiming it is a mandate.

In the above example, the VA dealer COULD just charge $200 and match the deal!


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## 01Byte (Jun 22, 2003)

Unlike the acquisition fee, the documentation fee is pure profit.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Should be fairly easy to get the to the base acquisition fee. A lot of Bimmerfesters report dealers being unwilling to budge on the dealer/documentation fee. They typically report it's easier to get them to come off the price some more. Being generous I would say a dealer fee up to $150 is not off the charts unreasonable. Tell the dealer if they want $459 for their fee you don't care just reduce the selling price by $xxx.


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## MANDREWS (Dec 12, 2013)

If you look on the sticker it will usually say Dealer Proccessing Fee (not required by law) However, if the dealer does not charge the fee, then technically everyone who has ever bought a car from there can bring a class-action-suit and all get refunded. This is why you will always pay the dealer proc fee. The fee is used to cover the cost of doing your tag/title work, which is not free, and paying the people that keep all of your paperwork in compliance with state/local laws, which is also not free. With that said, $500 is a little steep in my opinion, and I will never lose a deal over a few hundred bucks.


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## Weaselboy (Jul 7, 2002)

01Byte said:


> Unlike the acquisition fee, the documentation fee is pure profit.


...and in the OP's case, the dealer has added a nice $200 profit for themselves to the acq. fee.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I guess you can consider asking the dealer to move those amounts to the selling price if it really matters. At the end of the day, the out the door price is what counts.


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## MANDREWS (Dec 12, 2013)

That's what I would suggest as well. Never heard of anyone padding the aquisition fee, at least not here anyway.


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## stormace (Oct 5, 2004)

I've seen it here and advised them of it. Didn't change it until I showed them a comparable quote without the acquisition markup.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

MANDREWS said:


> If you look on the sticker it will usually say Dealer Proccessing Fee (not required by law) However, if the dealer does not charge the fee, then technically everyone who has ever bought a car from there can bring a class-action-suit and all get refunded. This is why you will always pay the dealer proc fee. The fee is used to cover the cost of doing your tag/title work, which is not free, and paying the people that keep all of your paperwork in compliance with state/local laws, which is also not free. With that said, $500 is a little steep in my opinion, and I will never lose a deal over a few hundred bucks.


This sound like a story dealerships tell salespeople so they can earnestly tell customers they cant change it.....

I mean following this logic, why wouldnt everyone that didnt pay sticker price on the car bring a 'class action' lawsuit?

Just seems like a half truth that prays on people's bias against attorneys...


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## MANDREWS (Dec 12, 2013)

I mean following this logic, why wouldnt everyone that didnt pay sticker price on the car bring a 'class action' lawsuit? 

Because no matter what the selling price is of the car, the dealer processing fee will always be listed on the Buyer's Order. In MD it is usually listed as $198 or $199. I guess it could be construed as profit, but no one ever complains that the Registration, Title, Tax, license fees are all pure profit for the state.

If you don't want to pay it, just ask for a $199 discount on the selling price, so it covers the proccessing fee, which will always be charged.


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

ard said:


> This sound like a story dealerships tell salespeople so they can earnestly tell customers they cant change it.....
> 
> I mean following this logic, why wouldnt everyone that didnt pay sticker price on the car bring a 'class action' lawsuit?
> 
> Just seems like a half truth that prays on people's bias against attorneys...


States regulations (depending on where you live) say that IF a documentation fee is charged, it must be the same for every customer. If it's changed, it must be applied to every customer thereafter.

In the event of an audit, if there is a discrepancy, the dealership could in theory be forced to refund everyone. That being said, there's plenty of employees who I've worked with that bought cars and just listed the doc fee as $0 in adp without getting caught.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I've paid $0 for 2 car purchases. Both ended up being a big issue. Not because of the amount $50 or thereabouts, but because of the potential legal aspects. I was given $0 in both cases - but it was almost not worth it. I now just ask them up front what the doc and other fees are, and make my offer accodingly.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

dannyc9997 said:


> States regulations (depending on where you live) say that IF a documentation fee is charged, it must be the same for every customer. If it's changed, it must be applied to every customer thereafter.
> .


You sure about that?

How about posting a link to the states that do? or just one state? I see no state that has a mandated charge.

PLENTY of legal talk about this...why?

Because this profit is justified by nonsense about all the work and tasks that are involved- it is purported to be a fee for real and tangible services. And therein lies the rub: if someone is charged less than the full amount, then an atty COULD argue that the fee really ISNT for services provided. That if Buyer A paid 100 less, and still got ll those services, shouldnt Buyers B- ZZZ get a refund?.

The whole issue is driven by fear of litigation, and not by laws.

(and perhaps Ive answered my own supposition: if you call it a profit, and dont try to claim it is fee for service, you can charge whatever you want to anyone- it is the fair trade and deceptive practice of calling it a fee for service that makes it harder to protect)

California limits this to $75 as I recall, and this seems a reasonable fee to most buyers I beleive. It is dealers in states with high or no limits, that charge well above reasonable fees, that are in the most danger of lawsuits.


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

MANDREWS said:


> This is why you will always pay the dealer proc fee. The fee is used to cover the cost of doing your tag/title work, which is not free, and paying the people that keep all of your paperwork in compliance with state/local laws, which is also not free. With that said, $500 is a little steep in my opinion, and I will never lose a deal over a few hundred bucks.


By that logic their should also be a porter fee for the guy who details your car and a sales fee for the guy selling your car...etc My local electronics store does not charge me a receipt fee for selling me a TV or sending my warranty info... lol

This was drummed up by dealers for an opportunity to make more profit. A very acceptable tactic in a free market economy. States have moved (unnecessarily IMO) to limit what a dealer can charge. Every deal just like buying a car falls under "Caveat Emptor" and it sounds like OP lives by just that - he got home and reviewed his fees etc prior to signing... at least I hope it was prior...:dunno: caught it an will either negotiate it out or take his business elsewhere.:thumbup:


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## German Expat (Sep 29, 2006)

Not sure you can really consider this proof but my dealership in Colorado did not have a doc fee when I started doing business with them in 2008 but then started charging a fixed fee as well. They also plastered the walls of their sales offices showing the (fixed) doc fee.

So there might be some truth around having to charge it. I honestly don't care and just see it as profit for the dealer. So if they charge me 500$ doc fee and I am willing to do a 800$ above invoice deal then its invoice + 300 + 500 doc fee on the deal.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/car-salesman-confidential-whats-up-doc-fee-24067.html

What I find a bit sneaky is if the fee only comes up at the end. I always want the out of the door price with all fees, taxes and what not else to avoid surprises.


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## German Expat (Sep 29, 2006)

And to answer your question. I have seen doc fees this high and higher. My last doc fee was 499$ and I paid 350$ above invoice with 1 point on the lease. The CA had to structure it this way, doc fee was charged to everybody and he needed to let the finance guy make some money. I don't care how they slice and dice it and always calculate the total deal.

http://www.realcartips.com/newcars/482-documentation-fees-by-state.shtml


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## MANDREWS (Dec 12, 2013)

miamiboyca said:


> By that logic their should also be a porter fee for the guy who details your car and a sales fee for the guy selling your car...etc My local electronics store does not charge me a receipt fee for selling me a TV or sending my warranty info... lol
> 
> I see your point. However, you DO pay a receipt fee, and and a warranty fee. You just don't see it listed seperately on your receipt. Business supplies such as thermal reciept tape, those pens that can tell if your $20 bill is fake, post-it notes etc. are all built into the overhead costs of the price you paid for the TV.
> 
> If only your local HH Gregg was as transparent as the car industry.


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## btinl (Jun 19, 2007)

German Expat said:


> And to answer your question. I have seen doc fees this high and higher. My last doc fee was 499$ and I paid 350$ above invoice with 1 point on the lease. The CA had to structure it this way, doc fee was charged to everybody and he needed to let the finance guy make some money. I don't care how they slice and dice it and always calculate the total deal.
> 
> http://www.realcartips.com/newcars/482-documentation-fees-by-state.shtml


Great website. Thanks


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

Ok... Just some info .... BMW allows dealers to mark up acq fee to $925.they only pay dealer $140 of that.. It is completely legal... And in the bmw fs handbook....Sometimes it is jut a way for dealers to make some reserve $.. Like if a car is being sold for -$3,000 below invoice they may try to pick up some $ with a $925 acq fee.

California doc fee is $80... Every state has different fees.


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## btinl (Jun 19, 2007)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Ok... Just some info .... BMW allows dealers to mark up acq fee to $925.*they only pay dealer $140 of that*.. It is completely legal... And in the bmw fs handbook....Sometimes it is jut a way for dealers to make some reserve $.. Like if a car is being sold for -$3,000 below invoice they may try to pick up some $ with a $925 acq fee.
> 
> California doc fee is $80... Every state has different fees.


Wow, interesting info. Thanks, Greg.


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

MANDREWS said:


> miamiboyca said:
> 
> 
> > By that logic their should also be a porter fee for the guy who details your car and a sales fee for the guy selling your car...etc My local electronics store does not charge me a receipt fee for selling me a TV or sending my warranty info... lol
> ...


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## Motorboat411 (Jul 23, 2012)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Ok... Just some info .... BMW allows dealers to mark up acq fee to $925.they only pay dealer $140 of that.. It is completely legal... And in the bmw fs handbook....Sometimes it is jut a way for dealers to make some reserve $.. Like if a car is being sold for -$3,000 below invoice they may try to pick up some $ with a $925 acq fee.
> 
> California doc fee is $80... Every state has different fees.


Interesting...so is the dealer's cut based off of percentage of the additional amount or is that fixed maximum i.e. does dealer get $140 whether the lease acq fee on contract is $865 ($140 over $725) or $925?


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

[email protected] BMW said:


> Ok... Just some info .... BMW allows dealers to mark up acq fee to $925.they only pay dealer $140 of that.. It is completely legal... And in the bmw fs handbook....Sometimes it is jut a way for dealers to make some reserve $.. Like if a car is being sold for -$3,000 below invoice they may try to pick up some $ with a $925 acq fee.
> 
> California doc fee is $80... Every state has different fees.


And hence the doc fee I was charged by Pacific/ Greg for both cars I got from him was $80..fyi I live in NJ where the fee is much higher..i want to say $369 off the top of my head..


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