# 335D life, price question, etc.



## ddeliber (Jan 31, 2013)

roadluvr said:


> New to this site because I got bad news this week from dealer about my 2010 335d with 71k miles on it. $6000 to clean possible clogged cylinder head intake ports due to carbon buildup. I am not a tech so don't get this and I am furious because my last car was a BMW 1995 540i which I drove for 239,000 with no repair that ever came close to that. I bought this car thinking I would save on gas and that it would last even longer AND that the repairs would not be as bad because I was informed by others who know cars that diesel is easier on your engine. I do not have the resources to be paying these kind of repair bills. Oh...do have the extended warranty which they just informed me was for maintenance only, not for mechanical problems. Another surprise. So...my question to any of you who really know cars, is this an ongoing problem for this car and I can expect to fork out this much every 70k miles or is it a one time thing. I do drive the car hard BTW when I enter the freeway. Or should I just sell the car and forget about these BMW diesels? I love this car and sick about this but it is all about money. Would appreciate any info I can get out there.


It really looks like the EGR recall was issued to address this carbon/soot/gunk buildup issue. BMW knows that this happens and it is not the result of owners doing anything but driving the car. I would tell the dealer this and ask them to open a PUMA case (or whatever it is called) asking BMW NA to cover the repairs for what really is a design issue.

I have read about at least one other person that was out of warranty who had BMW help with the repairs (BMW covered the parts). Personally, I don't think that this is enough because of the nature of the failure, but it is definitely better than nothing. The other point is that the standard remedy is replacement of the head and in some cases the intake manifold. Probably because the gunk is soft and gooey as opposed to the hard crusty carbon that builds up on the valves in DI engines. I am no expert, but if BMW is replacing them for everyone else there probably is a reason. Plus cleaning really sounds more labor intensive than replacement (assuming you get the parts covered of course).

Good luck, and let us know how things work out.


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682116

The direct injected gas engines have some major intake clogging issues. A lot of those guys are doing walnut shell blasting procedures every 40-50k miles to deal with it. Your dealers quote for cleaning the intake/valves seems excessive.


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

roadluvr said:


> New to this site because I got bad news this week from dealer about my 2010 335d with 71k miles on it. $6000 to clean possible clogged cylinder head intake ports due to carbon buildup. I am not a tech so don't get this and I am furious because my last car was a BMW 1995 540i which I drove for 239,000 with no repair that ever came close to that. I bought this car thinking I would save on gas and that it would last even longer AND that the repairs would not be as bad because I was informed by others who know cars that diesel is easier on your engine. I do not have the resources to be paying these kind of repair bills. Oh...do have the extended warranty which they just informed me was for maintenance only, not for mechanical problems. Another surprise. So...my question to any of you who really know cars, is this an ongoing problem for this car and I can expect to fork out this much every 70k miles or is it a one time thing. I do drive the car hard BTW when I enter the freeway. Or should I just sell the car and forget about these BMW diesels? I love this car and sick about this but it is all about money. Would appreciate any info I can get out there.


I too was under the impression that a diesel powertrain was built to last a million KM of heavy duty driving when I decided to switch my three vehicles to diesel!
Apparently we may have to go through this every 60-70k miles as my SA said I should be good for another 100k miles when I picked up my D after the cleaning of the cylinder head + replacement of the intake manifold and fuel injector during the last month.
It lasted 50 KM of driving and the check engine light returned!

I feel BMW should fix these issues on good will as its a powertrain / design failure. So far I've paid over $3,600.00 for the labor costs while BMW provide the parts on good will.
The total costs including parts would have been over $10,000!
This is unacceptable as its a design flaw and happen at only 65K miles which is just shortly after the warranty.

If my D can be fixed I would either trade it in or drive it for the next 2 years as it now has a 2 year warranty for the repair work. If I keep it I will trade it in before the 2 years up.

I certainly would not buy another BMW after this experience.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Bimmer App


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## subdude (Apr 11, 2013)

From what I have read BMW had a recall to change the EGR strategy. The very stringent EPA standards have taken some time to practically achieve. Besides changing the EGR strategy, when Ford designed the 6.7L they moved the EGR valve to the hot side(before the cooler) to preclude issues they experienced with previous engines(6.0, 6.4) and EGR coking. I have not traced my 3.0 out yet but I suspect that it is on the cold side. We need fuel standards here. A higher cetane value would help due to a more complete burn of the fuel....


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## 335dFan (Nov 8, 2012)

I am still a bit confused about the BMW figuring-it-out-as-we-go-along strategy. That may a bit harsh, knowing how real life is on technical matters in my own industry. I will give one example. Last summer they had a recall to replace the SCR metering unit. That was followed by the major one that replaced the EGR valve and SCR mixer. Two different dealers told me the SCR metering unit one was superseded by the newer one, and based on the numbering of the recalls it seems that was maybe the intent. But there is no SCR Metering unit part replaced in the newer and supposedly more comprehensive recall. So in one month they must have decided that the SCR Metering Unit wasn't really an issue after all, and so it was not needed. Both of those recalls covered my engine and production month. At this point of only 12k miles I have no problems, but I had planned to keep this beast for a long time. I do drive it kinda briskly, although being a bit more senior than the average boy racer, I try not to take on all comers at every opportunity so as to preserve a modicum of decorum.


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## subdude (Apr 11, 2013)

Lots of great info on this forum! There are actually two EGR valves. One post DPF(low pressure hot) and one right off of the exhaust manifold post EGR cooler....


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

subdude said:


> Lots of great info on this forum! There are actually two EGR valves. One post DPF(low pressure hot) and one right off of the exhaust manifold post EGR cooler....


To be clear, the low pressure system is used only on the X5d, and does not exist on the 335d.

The high pressure system exists on both cars.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

I would think if intake fouling was ocurring one would begin to notice some gradual detrimental affects on the cars performance. Like loss of power, increase temperatures, loss in fuel efficiency, well before you reached the point where you have a major blockage or build up.

Anybody have any anecdotal info to provide on this?:dunno:

I'm at 53k and MPG is improving slightly.


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## roadluvr (Apr 14, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> Exhaust Gas Recirculation. It's a system that reduces NOx emissions and has been used for quite some time in EU, on VW and MB engines, and in the US on the bigger rigs.
> 
> The EGR valve in use in the US/CA is different than the one used in EU. The control system is also different. There is some (SOME) evidence that there were problems with the first use of this EGR system on the US/CA engines; supported by the replacement of many valves and re-programming of the DDE (ECU) last year in a recall. There is speculation that the observed carbon buildup on the intake valves is caused by this - however most people (me included) have not had problems.
> 
> Although Keith and others swear there are problems, claim that it's a design flaw and that BMW should fix it are unsupported by statistical evidence (at least any that is available to us.) Indeed, the majority of forum members have not had this problem (by my count).


How many of the cars that do not have problems have 70k or more miles on them? I think that this would be an important criteria when assessing how problematic this is. How many miles are on your car at this point, for instance?

Again, I am not positive that this is actually the problem with my car. The Service engine light is on but they could not tell for a fact that carbon buildup is actually the issue from the diagnostics they did. They are guessing that it is probably the issue.

If you were me, what would you do in this case?


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## roadluvr (Apr 14, 2013)

Flyingman said:


> I would think if intake fouling was ocurring one would begin to notice some gradual detrimental affects on the cars performance. Like loss of power, increase temperatures, loss in fuel efficiency, well before you reached the point where you have a major blockage or build up.
> 
> Anybody have any anecdotal info to provide on this?:dunno:
> 
> I'm at 53k and MPG is improving slightly.


The only problem I have noticed in all of this is that the service engine light is on. Car still performs beautifully. Again, I have 71k miles on it at this point so I am thinking that this is when the issue raises its ugly head. Thanks again for helping me to get to the bottom of this. I want to keep this car but I cannot afford $6000 repair bills every 70k miles or so.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

roadluvr said:


> How many of the cars that do not have problems have 70k or more miles on them? I think that this would be an important criteria when assessing how problematic this is. How many miles are on your car at this point, for instance?
> 
> Again, I am not positive that this is actually the problem with my car. The Service engine light is on but they could not tell for a fact that carbon buildup is actually the issue from the diagnostics they did. They are guessing that it is probably the issue.
> 
> If you were me, what would you do in this case?


I've already posted the mileage on my car in this thread: 62K.
Some of the cars have had problems at 20K-25K. Some before 50K. Few cars actually are over 70K. Again, these are meaningless, as we don't know the history, we don't know the driving conditions, we don't know the maintenance, we don't know s#!%, unfortunately.

I would make sure that BMW gets an area service rep to look at your case and car, for sure.
I would also demand a goodwill repair, as if it is caused by the previously bad EGR valve, emissions are covered till 70K/7 years in CA (as am I up here in WA).


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