# New to forum and BMW - CPO 2009 335d



## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

Hello all, 

I've been reading for forum for a while now and pulled the trigger on a certified pre-owned 2009 335d with 52k on the clock. I was between the new Passat TDI or picking up a used 335d. I'm glad I drove the 335d before going with the Passat. The 335d is simply amazing and ended up paying thousands less than going with the new VW (picked it up below 30k). I had to purchase it out of state to find the price I was looking for but it was worth the drive. 

On the way back home, the yellow service engine soon light came on however the car drove perfectly fine. The dealership in my area found (through 2 weeks of research with BMW engineers) that the programming on that batch of 2009's is injecting too much fuel and causing carbon build up in the intake tract. A new updated program was loaded to the car to correct the fuel issues however the buildup was bad enough that the intake components will need to be replaced. The parts are currently on order and being shipped from Germany. Prior to finding what was going on, they replaced NOX sensor and an injector but neither of them turned out to be an issue. 

I'm hoping this is not an indicator of issues down the road and that I made the right choice. At least while I'm waiting on the car the dealership provided me with a 2011 335D .


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## cssnms (Jan 24, 2011)

Congrats and sorry to hear of your issues, thankfully it's certified and covered under warranty. Would be curious what it would have cost for a new intake had it not been under warranty.


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)




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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Sweet! Welcome Brian.

What is the warranty/maintenance program that comes with your CPO? 4 years/50k miles? Curious about that.

I imagine there should be a number of lease units starting to show up back at the dealers around now. You said you paid around $30k?

I suppose that is a very important feature to have with this car, the extended warranty and maintenance. You could probably argue that our used cars probably need to be value adjusted to accomodate the extended warranty/maintenance, if it is included with the CPO.

KBB has my car valued at about $33.8k as Private Sale and $37.5k as CPO and $36.3k as Dealer. I suppose the $4k difference from Private to CPO should include the cost of the extended warranty. More or less.

The 2009 base model would be about $33k CPO, so sounds like you got a fair deal.

I'm not sure I would buy a used 335D without a good warranty in place.


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

The CPO covers up to 100,000 miles on the odometer (48k Remaining) or 6 years which ever comes first. It was about $29,600 out the door (not including the NC 3% road tax which needs to be paid when I register it next week before the temp tag runs out). 

I found the deal through BMW's CPO search and at the time it was the lowest cost CPO 335d anywhere in the country and was able to get them to knock off an extra $500 off of that list price  The gentleman that traded it in used it for highway trips and purchased the X5d for the extra room.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

So it comes with extended warranty, no maintenance? Is that an option for you?

Regardless it looks like you got a really clean ride.

We're here if you have any questions.:thumbup:


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

Welcome to the Fest. Hopefully, your carbon build-up will be your last problem for a good while.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> So it comes with extended warranty, no maintenance? Is that an option for you?
> 
> Regardless it looks like you got a really clean ride.
> 
> We're here if you have any questions.:thumbup:


I am pretty sure a CPO has the maintenance too. But a base 09 for $33k will not sell. Been one on Autotrader exactly like my car except CPO and I think 12-13k more miles at 33k miles total for $33k. That one, like many other 335d cars is not selling and has been there a very long time. Heck my car with 20k miles brings in a whopping $20k trade in value at this point due to lack of wholesale appeal for the model. Which means I'd be lucky if I could find a private party to pay $25k. Reason being the two extended warranties to make it like a CPO cost $4-5k total.


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## SARAFIL (Feb 19, 2003)

cpo and maintenance are two separate things... cpo does not include a maintenance upgrade, you have to buy that at an additional cost.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Ah, in that case maybe I could get a whopping $26.5k for my car. Hmmmm, I should toss up an ad and see what happens.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

It's too bad the BMW diesels are not maintaining their values unlike VWs and MB's. This does not bode well for future diesel models in the US and that's too bad as I would be in the market for a 5 series diesel in a couple years. Looks like I'll be buying an E350 BlueTech Benz.


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

Maintenance is available but at a cost. I plan on performing my own oil changes using the LL04 oil and filters available at the dealer. As long as you save the records of self performed work you don't void the CPO unless something you did directly caused a problem. Snipe656, why do you want to sell the D?


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

BrianNC81 said:


> Maintenance is available but at a cost. I plan on performing my own oil changes using the LL04 oil and filters available at the dealer. As long as you save the records of self performed work you don't void the CPO unless something you did directly caused a problem. Snipe656, why do you want to sell the D?


We think Snipe just bought the wrong vehicle for him.:bawling:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

It is too small for our commuting needs. But I tried trading it in last week through a friend to then discover none of his normal wholesalers want to touch the 335d model. His normal one even said they just lost $10k on one and would not touch another right now. The BMW dealers he contacted also had little interest. Best he could offer me was $20k so I decided to keep it and figure something else out.


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## GB (Apr 3, 2002)

Snipe656 said:


> The BMW dealers he contacted also had little interest. Best he could offer me was $20k so I decided to keep it and figure something else out.


My former 2011 335d has been sitting on my local dealer's lot since I traded it in back in September...I thought it would sell pretty quick since they had no other d's in stock, but apparently not. I'm surprised they haven't wholesaled it yet but I'm sure they'd have to take a loss on that. At least around here, I think falling gas prices and the continued higher cost of diesel has put a damper on diesel sales.

Graham


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I have been tracking all my fillups since June of 2004. Diesel has almost always been at or more than 93 octane here. So I have a hard time believing cost of fuel is the primary issue. I think it is more to do with who the cars appeal to second hand and what they are typically willing to spend. Because not like the cars are plagued with problems or anything.


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

The poor resale value + lack of demand for the 335d is likely due to a few factors:
1. It is overpriced for a 3 Series.
2. The lack of promotion by BMW of the clean Diesel in North America.
3. The choice of the wrong power train for a 3 Series to introduce Diesel powered vehicles in North America.

Had BMW brought over the 320D for the 3er and the 35D for the X5 it would probably be a different outcome.

Having said that, I am glad I got the 335D since it's likely the only model that will be sold here and the F30 will likely be fitted with the 2.0L power train if it ever makes it way over here.

I will keep my D and drive it till it drops so the poor resale value is not an issue.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

DC-IT said:


> I will keep my D and drive it till it drops so the poor resale value is not an issue.


I am considering doing just this via keeping it as a secondary car and replacing my truck. Still a kick in the nuts because I originally was counting on getting $6-8k out of an existing car towards the next purchase. I may ultimately still sell the BMW because strong chance we will move overseas next year.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> I am considering doing just this via keeping it as a secondary car and replacing my truck. Still a kick in the nuts because I originally was counting on getting $6-8k out of an existing car towards the next purchase. I may ultimately still sell the BMW because strong chance we will move overseas next year.


Snipe, where would you be headed?

Post the car for sale on any of the major websites, you never know.:dunno:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Flyingman said:


> Snipe, where would you be headed?
> 
> Post the car for sale on any of the major websites, you never know.:dunno:


Some where in the Asian market. Possibly Perth but could be any number of spots from there to remote sections of China.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

BrianNC81 said:


> My thoughts exactly but since its under warranty probably easier for the dealership just to replace rather than try to clean it out. The parts replacement was recommended by an engineer from BMW that the dealer works with. Before they concluded carbon buildup was causing my service engine light the NOX sensors were replaced along with an injector. It drove fine with the yellow service engine light on.
> 
> In the meantime I've grow close to the 2011 335d loaner car I've been driving over a month.


Since I too have a 2009 then I am curious to know if the new top end they are putting on is in anyway different than the one they are taking off.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> I find it a little puzzling they have to replace the top half from the buildup and the buildup can't be cleaned out of the top half. Just would think even if the top half has to be pulled off for cleaning that would still be cheaper than replacing the parts completely. I guess if it is warranty work though that they do things a little differently.


Maybe this has caused some overheating and they are concerned with distortion or warped head???:dunno:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Maybe but I'd thought if it got that far that it would be overheating big time, possibly smoking and eating coolant too.


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

I got my car back today after 6 weeks at the dealership for a SES light. No issues at all on way home then I took it out about an hour later to pick up some food and got on the throttle a little and... the service engine soon light is back!

During the time at the dealer: "As per Puma removed intake to check for carbon and carbon was found in the intake, valve cover, egr, throttle valve, and cylinder head. Per puma replaced cylinder head, intake, valve cover, egr, and throttle valve. Performed retro fit in ISTA for new EGR valve and coded complete car."

2 NOX sensors
RMFD Injector
Cylinder Head
Gasket set Cylinder
Set Bolt Cylinder H
Cylinder Head Cover
Intake Manifold Wit
EGR-Valve
O-Ring
Throttle
Cylinder Head gasket
Gasket Ring
Ribbed V-Belt
and finally...
Antifreeze

I also noticed the addition of a large deep gash in the paint on the rear bumper that was not there before. I will be dropping it back off tomorrow so they can continue to troubleshoot the SES light and demand they have my bumper repainted. At this point I'm not sure what else they can replace. Any ideas?


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## railroader (Apr 12, 2010)

DC-IT said:


> I will keep my D and drive it till it drops so the poor resale value is not an issue.


Like DC-IT and some others, I'm in for the long haul too with my 2010 d...
even got the Sirius/XM "Lifetime" plan for this car to be assured of the music 
end of it as well! I took the depreciation hit once (giving them a low mileage
328i for the 335d) and don't want to go that route again. Fortunately my diesel
baby is proving as trouble-free as possible, plus the car seems to be getting 
faster and mileage improving as she breaks in. I'm going to run her until the
wheels fall off, well that's the plan now anyway...

Brian- good luck with your car and hope this newest SES light just proves to be 
something minor; I'm glad you got all those sparkling new intake parts in your car.
I still have fun every day driving this car and no regrets/remorse. It's a good fit 
for an old retired train guy-- who was around the really big diesels for 20+ years.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

BrianNC81 said:


> I got my car back today after 6 weeks at the dealership for a SES light. No issues at all on way home then I took it out about an hour later to pick up some food and got on the throttle a little and... the service engine soon light is back!
> 
> During the time at the dealer: "As per Puma removed intake to check for carbon and carbon was found in the intake, valve cover, egr, throttle valve, and cylinder head. Per puma replaced cylinder head, intake, valve cover, egr, and throttle valve. Performed retro fit in ISTA for new EGR valve and coded complete car."
> 
> ...


Call me a cynic or whatever but I honesty feel a lot of these Ds get misdiagnosed merely because they are diesels. Honestly, how many diesel certified mechanics do you think every BMW dealership has? I'd say in most cases it is zero. Most of these technicians probably go to "google" and these threads for their information.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

It's interesting to see how hard it is to get a decent price on a used 335d. X5 diesels are super popular up here and resale values are strong, more so than its competitors and the X5 petrol models


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

GreekboyD said:


> Call me a cynic or whatever but I honesty feel a lot of these Ds get misdiagnosed merely because they are diesels. Honestly, how many diesel certified mechanics do you think every BMW dealership has? I'd say in most cases it is zero. Most of these technicians probably go to "google" and these threads for their information.


Agreed except on the google part.



AutoUnion said:


> It's interesting to see how hard it is to get a decent price on a used 335d. X5 diesels are super popular up here and resale values are strong, more so than its competitors and the X5 petrol models


You sure they are actually selling for good prices? Down here used ones have decent asking prices but are on the market forever.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Fair enough Snipe on the google part. 

I think a lot of the time they apply petrol codes to the diesel ones in hoping that they fix or rectify a problem. Then you take the car home and a day or two later the SES light is back on again.

Not enough experience for the vast majority of BMW techs IMO when it comes to the diesels, especially in N. America.


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## GreekboyD (Jan 25, 2012)

Double post, sorry.


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## SpeedyD (Sep 18, 2011)

BrianNC81 said:


> I got my car back today after 6 weeks at the dealership for a SES light. No issues at all on way home then I took it out about an hour later to pick up some food and got on the throttle a little and... the service engine soon light is back!
> 
> During the time at the dealer: "As per Puma removed intake to check for carbon and carbon was found in the intake, valve cover, egr, throttle valve, and cylinder head. Per puma replaced cylinder head, intake, valve cover, egr, and throttle valve. Performed retro fit in ISTA for new EGR valve and coded complete car."
> 
> ...


Hey Brian,

I wanted to follow up on this from a few months ago. Did this ever get resolved? My dealership is telling me they need to replace the cylinder head and I'm worried it won't resolve my problem either...


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

@Brian welcome aboard amigo, hope everything pans out well for you and your new baby.

@Snipe I believe Perth is in Australia not China,(unless there is Perth in there) I happened to go there in my Navy days beautiful city and WHOLE lot of Beautifal ladies . i beleive you're a squid as SNIPE is an engineer in the NAVY. Correct me if Im wrong here, since Im a retired MS1(SW). Anway "Fair winds and Following seas, Shipmate!"


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

A Snipe is also an engineer in the Merchant Marines, you though are one of the few to catch what the Snipe reference is from or few to catch it and state that. Perth is in Australia and we were possibly going to go there or any number of other places(some in remote parts of China). We ultimately ended up staying right here in Houston, just found out last week.


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

Conrats Snipe you stay with your D

@BRIAN have them REPLACE THE ENTIRE engine they are trying to Trick faulk you, this engine is a LEMON!!! go to BBB and place a complaint or have them get you another D ok, good luck amigo!!


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

It did get resolved (finally)! 

After they replaced the EGR and cylinder head BMW spent a week reprogramming the computer with no results. (A BMW engineer actually came to the dealer) The check engine light kept coming back.

Next step they replaced the entire ECU which finally corrected the check engine light from appearing. Apparently the ECU was kicking off false codes even after being re-programmed by BMW multiple times. I would ask them to look at replacing the ECU before going in and replacing parts however if you are under warranty no harm in getting a new cylinder head out of it


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

BrianNC81 said:


> It did get resolved (finally)!
> 
> After they replaced the EGR and cylinder head BMW spent a week reprogramming the computer with no results. (A BMW engineer actually came to the dealer) The check engine light kept coming back.
> 
> Next step they replaced the entire ECU which finally corrected the check engine light from appearing. Apparently the ECU was kicking off false codes even after being re-programmed by BMW multiple times. I would ask them to look at replacing the ECU before going in and replacing parts however if you are under warranty no harm in getting a new cylinder head out of it


Except when ever you go to sell the car and someone pulls the service records(which might even be in Carfax too). A potential buyer is really going to be wondering why such a new car ended up needing such "big" parts replaced and might get worried and back peddle on the cars worth. I know I sure would be wondering why so much was needed. But I guess it all depends on when one sells their cars. If you keep them forever like me then service like that means nothing because the car is worthless just from usage anyway.


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

I plan on keeping it as long as possible. Hopefully get at least 250K miles out of it!


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

@snipe that is true, I would of gone for NEW ENGINE replacement and not the other issues they gave him. Although what I beleive here is that ECU got fried doing so many reflashes it was incorrectly giving false codes MAYBE!!, there could be something else underlying about this false codes. Better keep a close eye on this Brian!!!


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## BrianNC81 (Dec 16, 2011)

Axel61 said:


> @snipe that is true, I would of gone for NEW ENGINE replacement and not the other issues they gave him. Although what I beleive here is that ECU got fried doing so many reflashes it was incorrectly giving false codes MAYBE!!, there could be something else underlying about this false codes. Better keep a close eye on this Brian!!!


They mentioned that what was found from my car other 335d's could be recalled


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

wow good luck for others as well


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## Maybe335d (Apr 24, 2012)

4pipes said:


> I'm new here also. I bought my second 335d two weeks ago... Got $10k off of sticker and $29k for my 2009 with 24k on the clock.


Haven't yet found the 335d of my dreams, but actively looking. I have to ask - how do you start the conversation when you expect to get $10k off of sticker? I've heard other tales similar to yours, and I guess i'm just not very well versed in the art of the deal.

Look forward to any worlds of wisdom.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I got around 7500 off my car when I bought it new. I did not even initiate a conversation about discounts. Said I liked how the car drove but wanted to order one option how I wanted it. They said I could not get the Eco credit if I ordered and then said they'd instead knock off what I got off.


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