# Anyone regret getting automatic transmission?



## SailinSand (Aug 24, 2007)

I used the paddle shifters with my 335cic, but I think it would have been more fun with a manual.

The X5 is auto, its fun to shift when not in heavy traffic... I can see how standard tranny would be a PITA at times.

When we replace hubbys 325xi (2-5yrs) I'm hoping to get another 335(w a standard transmission), or M (budget permitting). 

Then hubby would drive the X5 to work, and I can play all day in the "fast car!"


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## snowbunni (Dec 19, 2007)

hoopics said:


> Do you use the paddles regularly, or do they end up as one more thing that can break which you remember only from time to time?


My A3 has the DSG automatic which is one of the top reasons I bought the car. I thought I would be using the paddles more, but found them troublesome to use in the city. The problem is the way the paddles are attached to the wheel. I'm not sure if the location of the paddles in BMW is better. Just imagine turning the wheel to navigate a corner and trying to gear down and gear up at the same time. I found myself constantly loosing the location of the paddles. If I want to use Steptronic/Sport mode, I prefer shifting using the stick so I can steer with one hand and shift with the other. Call me old school...


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## Hammerwerfer (Aug 8, 2003)

I have not owned a car with a slushbox since the 70s. Over the years I have borrowed, hired or otherwise driven a huge selection of automatics, including the SMG. I would not consider buying one. 

I enjoy driving too much to put up with a slushbox or SMG!


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

My wife has a DSG - even she admits driving my manual cars is more fun overall. She's not even a good stick driver but she recognizes you're far more involved when you must shift the car yourself.

I won't buy an automatic if I can avoid it...


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

Driving stick is more involving... not everyone wants to be that involved. 

I've actually heard that some people (pretty rare) actually like driving stick in heavy traffic. I guess if it's moving slightly that's ok, but the actual stop, and go, constantly, would get old after a while.


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## jesimmons (Jan 11, 2008)

TMQ said:


> I've actually heard that some people (pretty rare) actually like driving stick in heavy traffic. I guess if it's moving slightly that's ok,* but the actual stop, and go, constantly, would get old after a while.*


Ya think? :thumbup:


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## Fulltone74 (Oct 19, 2005)

I got a loaner car today from the dealer. 

It's a 328i. Totally basic non-sport setup with automatic. 

The 6 speed Automatic is amazing ! 

The upshifts and downshift are very quick. Not sluggish like virtually every other automatic I've had. 

The sport mode is also really nice too, but even the normal mode is good too except that it likes to shift into 2nd a little too soon. 

A well executed six speed auto has just as much performance capability as a 6 speed manual. 

When 5-speed manuals were common, the autos typically were 4-speeds. 
When 6-speeds came about, the autos were 5-speed, so it was always a disadvantage in performance for the auto, especially off the line. Now its very minimal if any difference with 6-speed automatics vs. 6 speed manuals. 

I just wish that the brake boost and the steering boost wasn't so strong. 
Brakes and steering are otherwise very responsive and sharp, with almost no slop. 
I would just prefer some more effort in the brake pedal and steering wheel. 

Otherwise, the car is great. Even the 328s are quick enough for most people.


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## reidconti (Jun 21, 2005)

TMQ said:


> I've actually heard that some people (pretty rare) actually like driving stick in heavy traffic. I guess if it's moving slightly that's ok, but the actual stop, and go, constantly, would get old after a while.


I drive 50 miles a day in SF Bay area traffic and wouldn't drive anything but a stick. I don't find that traffic is *truly* stop-and-go very often at all. It's usually variable speed, then stop, get going, speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down, stop, etc. I find it far easier to just stick the car in a gear and vary speed with very light pressure on the gas pedal.

If I was driving an automatic I'd have to gas AND brake, and at slow speeds automatics roll *way* too fast, so you end up riding the brake all day long. If you haven't noticed, the brake takes a lot more pressure than the gas does, and it's off to the left of where your right foot naturally falls (and to the right of where your left foot falls, if you're a left-foot-braker), so to ride the brake you need your leg exerting pressure at an awkward angle. Well, unless you just want to hold your leg in the air the whole time, but for light braking I usually just kick my ankle over a bit, rather than move my whole leg.

I really don't get the big deal of shifting, I probably disengage the clutch 50 or 100 times per day, and I don't see the difficulty or effort. I'm just sitting there in my car anyway, it's not like I have better things to be doing.

About the only circumstance that could make a stick annoying would be if your traffic was truly nonstop stop-and-go, especially if there were *long* uphill stretches where you had to be quick, and hold your foot on the brake when stopped anyway. Note by long uphill stretches I don't mean "driving in SF or Seattle regularly" which I find no problem with. I was thinking like stop-and-go going up a mountain pass 

Sounds like the OP has some pretty bad traffic though, only going 7 miles in 40 minutes. My commute is 23 miles each way, and on a good day it's 20-30 mins, on a bad day it can be as much as an hour. Might be one of those rare circumstances where it's worth putting up with a slushbox


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## milobloom242 (Dec 28, 2004)

reidconti said:


> I drive 50 miles a day in SF Bay area traffic and wouldn't drive anything but a stick. I don't find that traffic is *truly* stop-and-go very often at all. It's usually variable speed, then stop, get going, speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down, stop, etc. I find it far easier to just stick the car in a gear and vary speed with very light pressure on the gas pedal.
> 
> If I was driving an automatic I'd have to gas AND brake, and at slow speeds automatics roll *way* too fast, so you end up riding the brake all day long. If you haven't noticed, the brake takes a lot more pressure than the gas does, and it's off to the left of where your right foot naturally falls (and to the right of where your left foot falls, if you're a left-foot-braker), so to ride the brake you need your leg exerting pressure at an awkward angle. Well, unless you just want to hold your leg in the air the whole time, but for light braking I usually just kick my ankle over a bit, rather than move my whole leg.
> 
> ...


You don't have to constantly gas and brake w/ the step since it isn't as slushy as other ATs.

Anyway, w/ AT or MT all you have to do is stay a few car lengths away from the car in front of you in stop-go freeway traffic and you can coast for the most part.


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## reidconti (Jun 21, 2005)

My experience is that the E60 autobox most definitely coasts faster than a manual


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## uncle ken (Feb 3, 2007)

Then there are extremists like me who head for work two hours early to avoid gridlock, rather than give up the stick. Automatic transmissions work fine, I won't diss them. Hell 98% of BMWs are sold that way. But if you really want a stick, buying an automatic is like marrying the fat, rich girl. It seems OK at first....


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

I switched to an automatic transmission after rowing a 6 speed Porsche from Clearwater to Key West, a distance of 430 miles, where I never got out of 3rd gear (out of 6) during an 8 hour drive of ~430 miles. I usually drive it in 6 hours or less.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

TMQ said:


> Driving stick is more involving... not everyone wants to be that involved.
> 
> I've actually heard that some people (pretty rare) actually like driving stick in heavy traffic. I guess if it's moving slightly that's ok, but the actual stop, and go, constantly, would get old after a while.


:dunno: No big deal. I do it daily.


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## hmc (Nov 4, 2005)

While I definitely prefer manual transmission, I kind of agree with my wife that, unlike my Miata, E60 is also a luxury sedan and automatic maybe a better fit overall.

On the other hand, I am concerned with its reliability & longevity. It has leaked 3 times already now (under 20k miles).


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

Flex said:


> I've driven and owned cars with both. Manual transmissions are fun on the open road. Automatics are great for stop and go traffic.
> 
> So, IMO, it all boils down to 2 things - the area that you live and drive, and what you can live with (e.g. constant shifting in heavily congested areas or performance hit b/c of automatic).
> 
> ...


Well put, agree 100%.

Both my wife and I miss the clutch, particularly in a high performance automobile. But when you get stuck in stop-and-go traffic for an hour, or at a light going up one our famous hills (with traffic behind you) it's a no brainer.

And she just got pulled over last week, so we have no problem getting speed out of the 330i  (fortunately only received a "warning" ticket")


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## Synaps3 (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm sure you are in a very diffierent position from me, and so my opinion isnt worth as much, but it should be worth reading and thinking over clearly.

First Point - I'm about to buy my first BMW. I'm young and I'll do fine but I have a budget and I'm buying used. The automatic transmission on the 2001 models I look at has a VERY BAD history. The mechanics say its russian roulette with the automatics, while the manuals are rock solid. Now youre probably buying a new car so this isnt as much of an issue, but remember that automatic trannys are always going to be more complex and therefore more failure prone and less efficient than manual.

Second Point - Because of their complexity, automatics will cost you more, both buying the car, and getting it repaired should there be any transmission problems. I don't know how gas mileage works out between automatics and manuals but I'd put a dollar on it being cheaper there too to have a manual.

Third Point - You ARE talking about driving here. Personally I like to think a manual keeps my eyes on the road and my mind on what I'm doing. You want your attention to be on your driving for your safety. Yours and that of those in your car.

My 2c.


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

Synaps3 said:


> Third Point - You ARE talking about driving here. Personally I like to think a manual keeps my eyes on the road and my mind on what I'm doing. You want your attention to be on your driving for your safety. Yours and that of those in your car.
> 
> My 2c.


I think that a manual creates just the opposite safety effect. One must take their eyes _off_ the road to constantly monitor rpm's for shift points with a manual transmission. That is especially bad in stop and go traffic.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

`


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

ua549 said:


> I think that a manual creates just the opposite safety effect. One must take their eyes _off_ the road to constantly monitor rpm's for shift points with a manual transmission. That is especially bad in stop and go traffic.


Manual drivers don't stare at the RPM dial when they drive. Under normal driving, shifing is done when the engine "sounds right". Manual drivers have superb hands, eyes, and feet coordination where the whole process of changing gears comes natural. We are pianists on wheels.


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## bimmerFUD (Dec 19, 2006)

ua549 said:


> I think that a manual creates just the opposite safety effect. One must take their eyes _off_ the road to constantly monitor rpm's for shift points with a manual transmission.


Nonsense. I never look at the tach. Once you learn, it's all by sound.


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## uncle ken (Feb 3, 2007)

+1 on the last two posts. In very slow traffic you just creep along in first or second at parking lot speeds varying the distance to the stop & start automatic ahead of you . You might have to put the clutch in and stop but you sure as hell won't be shifting. What flat torque curves are for. At high speeds you unconsciously choose shift points with your ears. Engine music is way better than any audio system when you are running the twisties. I find the tach most useful for picking downshift points and (very rare) max acceleration runs out of the toll booths.


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

I rowed a Porsche for several years. :thumbdwn: If one did not watch the tach (red line 7200 rpm), it was very easy to over rev and break something. There is no listening to the engine when the surrounding sound levels are high. I doubt if the above posters can tell the difference between 7000 rpm and 7200 rpm by sound in heavy/noisy traffic with 18 wheelers around you. If you rely on your ears to do that, I'd like to be your repair parts provider. 

Maybe stop and go traffic is different where you are, but in the Tampa area it means 0-60-0 within a few hundred yards in bumper to bumper traffic for many miles on I-4 and I-275 (both are 8-10+ lanes). If one allows the gap between cars to open to more than a 3 or 4 car lengths, someone will fill the spot even at 70 mph.


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## uncle ken (Feb 3, 2007)

ua549 said:


> I rowed a Porsche for several years. :thumbdwn: If one did not watch the tach (red line 7200 rpm), it was very easy to over rev and break something. There is no listening to the engine when the surrounding sound levels are high. I doubt if the above posters can tell the difference between 7000 rpm and 7200 rpm by sound in heavy/noisy traffic with 18 wheelers around you. If you rely on your ears to do that, I'd like to be your repair parts provider.
> 
> Maybe stop and go traffic is different where you are, but in the Tampa area it means 0-60-0 within a few hundred yards in bumper to bumper traffic for many miles on I-4 and I-275 (both are 8-10+ lanes). If one allows the gap between cars to open to more than a 3 or 4 car lengths, someone will fill the spot even at 70 mph.


7000 RPM in heavy traffic - wtf???? You don't have to hear where the engine is, you can feel it, you just know. Trying to explain is like describing the sunset to a colorblind man.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

ua549 said:


> I rowed a Porsche for several years. :thumbdwn: If one did not watch the tach (red line 7200 rpm), it was very easy to over rev and break something. There is no listening to the engine when the surrounding sound levels are high. I doubt if the above posters can tell the difference between 7000 rpm and 7200 rpm by sound in heavy/noisy traffic with 18 wheelers around you. If you rely on your ears to do that, I'd like to be your repair parts provider.
> 
> Maybe stop and go traffic is different where you are, but in the Tampa area it means 0-60-0 within a few hundred yards in bumper to bumper traffic for many miles on I-4 and I-275 (both are 8-10+ lanes). If one allows the gap between cars to open to more than a 3 or 4 car lengths, someone will fill the spot even at 70 mph.


Beside the track you ref to 7200 everytime you shift? Do you have to stare at the dial and shift at exactly redline, or your peripheral vision is close enough? Maybe you should have added a blinking red light on the dash to tell you when to shift. I think there is a lot of margin in over reffing before the engine "explode".


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

7200 rpm's was an example. I did not say I drove with those rpm values. 0-60-0 requires much slower engine speeds. My point is that I don't believe you can hear the sound difference between X rpm's and X+200 rpm's. Anyone who says they can must have exceptional hearing. Make X any value you want. I certainly can't hear the engine when driving at any speed in heavy traffic. One must look at the tach if one is going to shift at a given point with any consistency. If that was not the case, there would not be a tach in the instrument panel. The tach is there to be used.


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## reidconti (Jun 21, 2005)

Synaps3 said:


> Second Point - Because of their complexity, automatics will cost you more, both buying the car, and getting it repaired should there be any transmission problems. I don't know how gas mileage works out between automatics and manuals but I'd put a dollar on it being cheaper there too to have a manual.


Just playing devil's advocate against my own POV here... If an automatic breaks down you will have to pay a lot to fix it, but the manual has more "wear parts" (ie, clutch). Now, I've never replaced a clutch on any car I've owned because they tend to last to well over 100k, but I'm just throwing that out there


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## reidconti (Jun 21, 2005)

ua549 said:


> I rowed a Porsche for several years. :thumbdwn: If one did not watch the tach (red line 7200 rpm), it was very easy to over rev and break something. There is no listening to the engine when the surrounding sound levels are high. I doubt if the above posters can tell the difference between 7000 rpm and 7200 rpm by sound in heavy/noisy traffic with 18 wheelers around you. If you rely on your ears to do that, I'd like to be your repair parts provider.


You're doing it wrong.

First of all, if you keep your foot to the floor you'll just hit the fuel cut and rev limiter, you won't break anything.

I don't see how it's possible that you've ever driven a manual transmission with the way you're going off about how important it is to shift at the exact same point every time and so on. This post simply makes no sense. :dunno:

Shift when you feel like it. Why ever look at the tach? I have no clue where my average shift point is. It all depends on what is happening in traffic ahead of me, where the curves in the road are, if there is a stop sign coming up, and so on. It's based on the sound and feel. If I lift off gently in traffic and the car slows more than I expected, oh, oops, maybe I held my gear longer than I planned to. No problem.

That said, I don't disagree about the whole luxury car thing. I test drove an E39 M5 the other day and I must admit, it's the heaviest car I've ever driven with a stick. Some of the feelings seemed unusual or incongruent with what I expected. The car was just too big and heavy to excite me. Didn't mean the transmission didn't make sense, but I understand that maybe a manual isn't what you think when you think big heavy luxury. Until I drove it, I wouldn't have understood how odd it is to have to be smooth on and off throttle in such a large car.


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## jagu (Nov 7, 2006)

ua549 said:


> I think that a manual creates just the opposite safety effect. One must take their eyes _off_ the road to constantly monitor rpm's for shift points with a manual transmission. That is especially bad in stop and go traffic.


Absolutely untrue. You just listen to the sound of the engine and the resistance, then you shift.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## hoopics (Mar 3, 2008)

jagu said:


> Absolutely untrue. You just listen to the sound of the engine and the resistance, then you shift.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Seconded. The only time I use the tach is if I'm reving hard (merging into fast traffic, for example, or having "fun" from a traffic light) and want to make sure I shift at least 1000 RPM short of the redline (yes, I know I can take it closer, but why?), or if I'm cruising on the bubble between gears and I'm trying to decide if I want to be a gear higher / lower. if I'm accelerating or decelerating, it is all sound and feel.

Also, as I'm the guy who started this thread, I'd first like to say thanks again for all the great input. I'd then like to offer up that I test drove an e93 this weekend, equipped with the steptronic and paddle shifters. I'm 100% sold, and I'm not even going to bother test driving a manual. There is absolutely nothing "slush boxy" about this car (the X3 I test drove is an entirely different matter, , but we won't go there). The steptronic in the convertible executes perfectly acceptable automatic shifts, and if I put it into manual mode it executed shifts even more crisply than I can. It was a ton of fun. :rofl: I don't know that I'll ever use the paddle shifters, but I do see using it in manual mode with the gear shift lever whenever I'm not sitting in traffic.

For those of you who've sworn off automatics, how many of you have tried the current 6 speed steptronic in the 3 series? I'm not going to claim that I'm an expert by any measure, but I am curious: in your view, what's not to like about it?


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## jesimmons (Jan 11, 2008)

reidconti said:


> I really don't get the big deal of shifting, I probably disengage the clutch 50 or 100 times per day, and I don't see the difficulty or effort. I'm just sitting there in my car anyway, it's not like I have better things to be doing.
> 
> About the only circumstance that could make a stick annoying would be if your traffic was truly nonstop stop-and-go, especially if there were *long* uphill stretches where you had to be quick, and hold your foot on the brake when stopped anyway. Note by long uphill stretches I don't mean "driving in SF or Seattle regularly" which I find no problem with. I was thinking like stop-and-go going up a mountain pass


Personally I'd rather have a manual. But after an hour of stop and go on the DC beltway (happens at least once a week for me as I have to go 50% around it twice a day), my left knee aches. Probably a touch of arthritis.

I got the 535i yesterday and I must say... so far I think the Steptronic was the right decision for me. It is so different from every other auto trans I've driven, its almost hard to describe.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

ua549 said:


> 7200 rpm's was an example. I did not say I drove with those rpm values. 0-60-0 requires much slower engine speeds. My point is that I don't believe you can hear the sound difference between X rpm's and X+200 rpm's. Anyone who says they can must have exceptional hearing. Make X any value you want. I certainly can't hear the engine when driving at any speed in heavy traffic. One must look at the tach if one is going to shift at a given point with any consistency. If that was not the case, there would not be a tach in the instrument panel. The tach is there to be used.


+/- 200 rpm is not going to make a difference driving around town. Not even on a race track. Only time you want to go to redline is down a straight away where your max hp comes near redline. You are unlikely to want to hit redline when you are in a curve. I can't imagine you a Porsche driver look at the rpm gage while driving around town. A glance here and there, but looking to +/- 200 rpm? No way. You drive with your intuition, and the sound of the engine tells you a lot. I've been driving sticks all my life. Watching the tech isn't that important to me around town.


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## Jimmy540i.com (Apr 3, 2002)

+1


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

Dave 330i said:


> +/- 200 rpm is not going to make a difference driving around town. Not even on a race track. Only time you want to go to redline is down a straight away where your max hp comes near redline. You are unlikely to want to hit redline when you are in a curve. I can't imagine you a Porsche driver look at the rpm gage while driving around town. A glance here and there, but looking to +/- 200 rpm? No way. You drive with your intuition, and the sound of the engine tells you a lot. I've been driving sticks all my life. Watching the tech isn't that important to me around town.


I'm amazed by the superhuman hearing claimed in this thread. How possibly can you hear a very quiet BMW gas engine (<50 dBA) in traffic, especially is a well insulated car like a 5 Series. With the windows down your own gas engine noises are drowned out by the diesel trucks and their noisy tires and brakes (90 dBA). My hearing is normal. My PC makes more noise than my 535i driving in town.

I drove a manual transmission car for over 20 years and always shifted according to the tach for either optimum power or optimum economy.


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## reidconti (Jun 21, 2005)

Words cannot describe.


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## Glex (Jan 31, 2008)

Drove an E36 manual for 197,000 miles and now drive a ZHP step and do at rare times miss the manual. Can't remember the last time I really used the manual to exact the last ounce of performance out of the car and unless one is tracking their BMW's very few drive the BMW to its limit. Don't rule out the auto, it is quick enough and capable enough to give an adrenilin rush to even the more "experienced" drivers.


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## ukboi (Mar 1, 2008)

I have only bought manual cars, my first AT is on my current 328i coupe. My previous 325Ci was a manual and I found it to be jerky at low speeds but satisfying at all other times. While i don't regret buying the autobox, I do miss the connectivity and ultimate control of driving a manual transmission. Indeed my next car will be a manual.


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## Dave 330i (Jan 4, 2002)

Ok, maybe I'll say it this way. Around town, shifting around 3500 +/- 200 rpm is not a real issue, and the rpm gage is not all that important. The original poster's concern was if you stare at the rpm gage, you will be taking your eyes off the road, thus, creating an unsafe driving condition. Nobody has to stare at the gage to see where you are in rpm. Your peripheral vision is good enough to locate what rpm you are. So, manual drivers are not unsafe drivers. If there is any that BMW produces that I consider unsafe is a driver who is not familiar with the i-Drive system tries to understand it while the car is in motion.


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## TMQ (Jun 3, 2004)

That's why the M5 has the M HUD display about the rpm. anyway, one has to look at the speedometer also, so peeking at the tach isn't that big of a deal, and especially since the tach in the porsches are prominently displayed.

I think the thing about driving a manual is that one has to pay attention more. I learned to drive in auto. When I had a manual, I sometimes lost concentration and forgot what gear I was in. I also got lazy and started doing california stops when there's no traffic.

For people who want to relax when driving, listen to the music, cell phone, etc., they should stick with STEP. Some day I'll get a manual.


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## bimmerFUD (Dec 19, 2006)

Well, I also don't look at the speedo when driving aggressively, much less the tach. I prefer to look at the road and avoid objects 

There's nothing wrong with getting either tranny. Get what you like. But without data to back it up, I don't believe that either is somehow safer than the other.


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## shamulater (Apr 25, 2007)

bimmerFUD said:


> There's nothing wrong with getting either tranny. Get what you like. But without data to back it up, I don't believe that either is somehow safer than the other.


 Agreed. After 35 years of driving...both stick and auto...I seriously doubt either could be called safer or more dangerous.


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

I never look at the speedo when I'm driving a manual transmission since speed is a function of gear and rpm. Reading the speedo is redundant to reading the tach.


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## bmwgal (Jan 17, 2008)

sometimes I regret it....when there's fun to be had. But that's not the case the majority of the time. Just too much damn traffic and it's my daily driver. So overall, no I don't regret getting an automatic.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

I don't really commute persay except during the summers when I have internships.

Some of the automatics that BMW offers in the 335i and maybe in the X5 4.8i seem to shift super-fast and responsively. I haven't lived with one daily, but perhaps it would be good.

I wish both our BMWs were manuals. The X3 needs 3 pedals to make the most of the 184 horsepower, and it would greatly make it more fun to drive than it already is. Plus, the older automatics didn't lock up the torque converters as much as the newer ones. So, the automatic on that is very good and responsive, but it's not quite the full potential that the chassis and motor can offer. The '06 325i has the new converter technology, but it's so dimwitted and slow to shift that it totally kills the 215hp that it has. Combined with the soft throttle response and lack of a real exhaust note, it makes the car VERY dull and :yawn:. It has absolutely _nothing_ to do with the adaptive transmission control because I DO want it soft 90% of the time, and hard-edged the remaining 10%. It can't seem to do anything exceptionally well, except save gas.


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## snowbunni (Dec 19, 2007)

*The cell phone factor*

And, for the sake of all the folks who are going to be around you on the road, puleeez ask yourself (truthfully) if you are going to be gabbing on the cell phone, eating, chatting with passengers, general-stuff-that-will-distract-you-from-the-road, etc. If you know for a fact that you're a phone person--even though it's hands-free/bluetooth--you need one less thing to distract you, so get an automatic. Same goes for people who read work files, eat burgers, etc.

I enjoyed driving stick for years, but quite frankly having a chatty kid in the back is too distracting and opted for an auto for the 5-series.


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## bimmerFUD (Dec 19, 2006)

But if with an auto you're more likely to read, eat, use a cell-phone, slap your kids, etc., then I take back saying that an auto and manual are equally safe


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Even with an automatic, I don't find myself getting distracted. I don't like getting distracted while behind the wheel..........it's less safe and I'm probably not driving as efficiently as I could.


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## ua549 (Oct 22, 2007)

IMHO cup holders in the front row of seats should be outlawed in the US along with all of those non-driving activities when the vehicle is in motion.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

ua549 said:


> IMHO cup holders in the front row of seats should be outlawed in the US along with all of those non-driving activities when the vehicle is in motion.


In Europe, the panel containing the cupholders on the 3-series is optional. Cupholders come as part of the "Storage package". When I built my M3 coupe and cabrio on the BMW DE website, I purposely didn't check off the 120 EUR it costs to order cupholders because I wouldn't want folks drinking in my car!


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## reidconti (Jun 21, 2005)

I'm not sure I'd agree that driving a manual is in any way "distracting." In fact, I'd side more with people who say it makes you focus more. Failing to shift just results in being in the wrong gear. It's nothing like failing to steer/brake/accelerate properly which are direct immediate problems.

But if you need to do something with your hands other than drive (hold a phone, eat, smack your kid in the back seat, put on makeup, perform sign language) it's probably best to avoid driving a manual which requires you to actually drive rather than just occasionally glance forward to make sure your speed and trajectory are not too far off. We can debate whether any or all activities should be performed while driving, but I don't think anyone's going to argue that occupying an extra hand is going to help any of these people


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