# Proper 1-2 shifting technique?



## cokray (Feb 13, 2003)

Hi All,

So I've had my 325i with a manual transmission for a couple of months now. Having never driven a manual before I have taught myself with this car. I'm getting much better at it; I can now launch and shift smoothly 85% of the time.

However, I have a question concerning proper shifting from 1st to 2nd. I've noticed that the revs fall off slowly when depressing the clutch to shift and because of this I have to wait for a few beats so the revs get down where they need to be for second -- if I don't wait long enough the car jerks as the engine speed is forcibly dropped by the wheels. Now, when cruising around and shifting at 3K or so this isn't a big deal, however, when I try to push the car a bit more and, say, shift out of first at 4 or 5K the wait seems interminably long and the car loses a significant amount of speed before I can smoothly engage second.

My question is this: is there a driving technique to use to shorten the wait and still engage second smoothly? Should I be feathering the gas before clutching in first? Should I be slower releasing the clutch for second? 

This delay is especially annoying when driving up a hill as the car sheds speed faster than it sheds revs causing a big slowdown when shifting.

I've driving three different m/t equipped cars now and my BMW is the only one that gives me this trouble, I'm guessing this is because the revs drop faster on the other cars I've driven (lighter flywheels or whatever).

Any advice is much appreciated…


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

You can feather the clutch to make the revs drop faster....


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## cokray (Feb 13, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> *You can feather the clutch to make the revs drop faster.... *


I kinda figured that's what I was supposed to be doing, I still need more practice feathering my clutch, it seems determined to either fully engage or fully disengage. Sometimes I feel so uncoordinated trying to drive it.


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

I asked Clyde about this on Friday, it seems 1 to 2 is a bit rougher in BMWs for some reason  

I did do a big SNAFU today, playing around, missed a shift and shot the revs up to 6k :yikes: uch: :wow: I hope it will be ok


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## GaryB (Feb 2, 2003)

I agree. Accomplishing a consistently smooth 1st-2nd shift is the only problem I have with the transmission in normal driving, presumably because the revs have to fall *more* for this shift than any other. The slightly shorter 1st gear in the new 6-speed MT doesn't help.


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

Dr. Phil... FYI your new flashy sig is over 150k.  :angel:

--SONET


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## Dr. Phil (Dec 19, 2001)

SONET said:


> *Dr. Phil... FYI your new flashy sig is over 150k.  :angel:
> 
> --SONET *


I was waiting to see how long it woudl take you to comment :angel: So was the culprit that made it for me


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Phil, bi-xenons don't flash that way. :tsk:


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

Dr. Phil said:


> *I was waiting to see how long it woudl take you to comment :angel: So was the culprit that made it for me   *


:lmao: :lmao:
That's pretty funny, I didn't think anyone even paid attention to my posts where I b*tch about sig pics.

So... how long did it take me to notice, and more importantly, who was the culprit?  

--SONET


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## mwette (Sep 16, 2002)

Hmm. Feathering the clutch doen't sound good to me. My advice is to learn the timing of the car. I am still learning, but I find that if I let off the gas all the way and give it a little more time, if needed. That and maybe wait for the EDU "fixers".


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## cokray (Feb 13, 2003)

mwette said:


> *Hmm. Feathering the clutch doen't sound good to me. My advice is to learn the timing of the car. I am still learning, but I find that if I let off the gas all the way and give it a little more time, if needed. That and maybe wait for the EDU "fixers". *


Unfortunately, the timing of the car seems to call for 2 or more second pauses between 1st and 2nd, which is a really long time to be off the gas if you're trying to speed up quickly.

Perhaps I'm just picking bad points to shift at, like I said if I shift at 3K I have no real issues, but when I try to wind the engine up to 4 or 5K the delay seems to be longer, which is unfortunate because that's when I'm usually the most in a hurry. :dunno:


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

I would guess that most of the delay is caused by the engine management software for emissions purposes (instead of the flywheel). Hopefully if the Shark Injector ever becomes available it will fix this. In the meantime, it sounds like you just need to learn the timing better. If you think about it every shift then it will come to you pretty quick. Your delay does sound considerably longer than mine though, which is odd. :dunno:

--SONET


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## skarl (Apr 4, 2003)

Don't worry about it. Being european I've driven nothing but MT's all my life, and when I drove off the dealers lot with my 330Ci last friday, I was jumping around all over the place like a newbie... :tsk: 
However, one half hour later I'd learned to find the clutch's sweet spot and now I find it easier than my ol' Miata to shift from 1st to 2nd. I snap it in as fast as I can move the stick.
It's just a matter of getting used to the clutch.

Stefan


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## cokray (Feb 13, 2003)

SONET said:


> *I would guess that most of the delay is caused by the engine management software for emissions purposes (instead of the flywheel). Hopefully if the Shark Injector ever becomes available it will fix this. In the meantime, it sounds like you just need to learn the timing better. If you think about it every shift then it will come to you pretty quick. Your delay does sound considerably longer than mine though, which is odd. :dunno:
> 
> --SONET *


I'm sure you're right, I do have to get my timing down, as well as improve my clutch-feathering abilities to soften the shock if the revs are not in perfect alignment.

The biggest problem I have is driving up and down steep hills (very common where I live). The poor 2.5L really dies if I hit second too soon going up a hill, it has very little power in second until 3000 RPM or so, so I have to ride out first much longer, hence my complaints.


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## cokray (Feb 13, 2003)

skarl said:


> *Don't worry about it. Being european I've driven nothing but MT's all my life, and when I drove off the dealers lot with my 330Ci last friday, I was jumping around all over the place like a newbie... :tsk:
> However, one half hour later I'd learned to find the clutch's sweet spot and now I find it easier than my ol' Miata to shift from 1st to 2nd. I snap it in as fast as I can move the stick.
> It's just a matter of getting used to the clutch.
> 
> Stefan *


Just out of curiousity, at about what RPM do you usually shift out of first when driving?

Also -- Go Blue! (assuming you're a student -- I graduated there in '97)


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## LilEccentricJ (Dec 19, 2001)

SONET said:


> *:lmao: :lmao:
> That's pretty funny, I didn't think anyone even paid attention to my posts where I b*tch about sig pics.
> 
> So... how long did it take me to notice, and more importantly, who was the culprit?
> ...


I H8 fatware sigs! :eeps:


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

skarl said:


> * I snap it in as fast as I can move the stick.
> *


 Isn't that pretty hard on the syncros? :dunno:

There is a point as the revs drop where it takes less effort to put it into gear, which is what I wait for, then let off the clutch *right* after putting it into gear so the tranny/motor are turning at the same speed for a smoother feeling shift.

I just realized how difficult it is to explain stuff like this in writing.

--SONET


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## ride365 (Dec 19, 2001)

cokray said:


> *Unfortunately, the timing of the car seems to call for 2 or more second pauses between 1st and 2nd, which is a really long time to be off the gas if you're trying to speed up quickly. *


as bad as the throttle map is, that does sound excessively long. try getting off the throttle sooner and sooner relative to clutch engagement, but not so much that the car jerks because you're still in gear.

when you shift, do the revs *rise* at all between gears?


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

LilEccentricJ said:


> *I H8 fatware sigs! :eeps: *


I had a feeling it was you!  :rofl: :rofl:

--SONET


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## cokray (Feb 13, 2003)

ride365 said:


> *as bad as the throttle map is, that does sound excessively long. try getting off the throttle sooner and sooner relative to clutch engagement, but not so much that the car jerks because you're still in gear.
> 
> when you shift, do the revs rise at all between gears? *


No, they don't rise. I am pretty good about getting my foot off the gas when I'm supposed to. It is possible I'm exaggerating the 2 seconds, but it sure seems that long.

However, another theory I have is that I am (unintentionally) getting back on the gas too soon (probably right when I start to release the clutch) causing the revs to slow their decent. This probably happens more on hills because the car is losing speed quickly and my brain is telling my (automatic transmission trained) right foot to make it go faster.


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## m75 (Apr 16, 2003)

I've been curious lately about whether the Dinan S1 software would help in rev matching situaitions. I know that the DBW delays the throttle response, but I'm not sure whether it effects the drop off of the revs when you're off of the throttle? Anyone with S1 care to help answer this?


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## ayn (Dec 19, 2001)

JetBlack330i said:


> *cokray,
> It not anything that you're doing.
> BMW's are designed that way. It provides the best compromise for most drivers. Even enthusiasts don't shift agressively all the time. Those who do will mod it, if they think the problem is serious enough... the only effective mod for what you're wanting is a lightweight flywheel. If you mod, be prepared to shift fast all the time (may become tiresome) or you'll complain that the engine drops speed too fast and your shift will again be jerky.
> http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/LFWLE46.htm *


LTWFW! yummy! i need to do your DIY clutch stop, and then B&M SSK... LTWFW kindda too hardcore for me, maybe after the car comes outta warranty... hehe...

--Andrew


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