# Manual downshifting to brake?



## brkf (May 26, 2003)

terry325xiwagon said:


> blueguydotcom said:
> 
> 
> > Bah, it's a lease and the clutch and tranny on bimmers suck anyway, so I'll wear that out and let the next sap to own the car worry about it.[/QUOTE ]
> ...


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## jsc (Sep 3, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> I've heard many others on hear complain about BMW trannies but obviously it's user error - or rather my error. It can't be that BMW's transmissions, in the opinion of some experience drivers, just aren't as smooth, refined, swift or well engineered as some of the comp. Nope, it's driver error.
> 
> nothing worse than loyalist who can't accept that others may have an opinion of a car that isn't flattering. Eek, god forbid some of us think that our BMWs aren't the "ultimate driving machine". More like the ultimate hype machine...
> 
> And please don't tell me X and Y magazines called Bimmer trannies great or this person who won 5 races thinks BMW trannies are wonderful. That doesn't change the opinion of this owner. My ZHP is a nice enough car but its transmission is garbage (something I found to be true with all bimmers I've driven thus far) and the engine's not all that great either. not for stalling but for a total lack of torque or power below 4k rpm. I expect more from a sport sedan...next time I'll either have to get a less corpulent car or a bigger engine.


Having driven Hondas in the past, I thought that BMW transmissions were not very good. My opinion has now changed. Honda transmissions are very forgiving and easy to shift smoothly. BMW transmissions are very un-forgiving, but with some practice and a desire to improve the smoothness of the shift, I now prefer the more mechanical and precise shift in my 323Ci.

I believe BMW, Porsche and Ferrari are some of the manufacturers (in general European) who utilize transmissions that are not aimed at the lowest common denominator of users, but when one takes the time to work at refining shift technique, they provide an excellent quality shift.


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## SAZMan (Mar 6, 2004)

jsc said:


> Having driven Hondas in the past, I thought that BMW transmissions were not very good. My opinion has now changed. Honda transmissions are very forgiving and easy to shift smoothly. BMW transmissions are very un-forgiving, but with some practice and a desire to improve the smoothness of the shift, I now prefer the more mechanical and precise shift in my 323Ci.
> 
> I believe BMW, Porsche and Ferrari are some of the manufacturers (in general European) who utilize transmissions that are not aimed at the lowest common denominator of users, but when one takes the time to work at refining shift technique, they provide an excellent quality shift.


But what would be the advantage of having such a transmission? Usually when the lowest denominator is being catered too, something is compromised. Is that the case here?


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## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

Originally Posted by ff
Buy a 330i w/ ZHP package. You'll have a $42K car that stalls all the time.



blueguydotcom said:


> I own a ZHP - sticker was 43k. It's never stalled.


So if you pay an extra $1000, they'll delete the stall "feature?" :rofl:

I only payed $38.5K for mine. I wonder what surprises it will have in store for me... 

I think it's time for a poll. I wonder whether these stalling cars are a vocal minority, or is the problem more prevalent?


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

kurichan said:


> Originally Posted by ff
> Buy a 330i w/ ZHP package. You'll have a $42K car that stalls all the time.
> 
> So if you pay an extra $1000, they'll delete the stall "feature?" :rofl:
> ...


Well the sticker was 43k, my cost was 39.9k. Cunningham had a very generous deal for me.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

jsc said:


> I believe BMW, Porsche and Ferrari are some of the manufacturers (in general European) who utilize transmissions that are not aimed at the lowest common denominator of users, but when one takes the time to work at refining shift technique, they provide an excellent quality shift.


The european companies were (and in many continue to be) the same ones opposed to decent ergonomics, reliability and all great electricals. When the Japanese took on the luxury segment suddenly BMW, MB, et al were put on notice to get it together. Even Ferrari and Lambo are building cars differently because the expectation isn't that the car will only go fast but that it will offer a few more positives to make owners happy.

So, Ferrari and Porsche (seems to be a German problem as Audi/VW have rubbery, useless trannies too) offer subpar transmissions, and by extension that excuses BMW?

Refining shift technique? This has nothing to do with shift technique, unless by technique you mean driving like a grandma. At WOT if I slam my clutch to the floor that gear better release instantly and allow me to snap the stick into the next slot. No hesitation. No binding. No refusal to release or refusal to open subsquent gears fully. Every miata I've driven allows you to snap through gears at a breakneck pace. Every BMW...no such luck. Good grief my POS 03 Protege ES allows me to shift faster.

Even in lazy around town driving, BMW sticks have more in common with your typical cruddy american stick. Notchy and lacking in liquid smoothness, the usual BMW stick just doesn't flow fluidly from gear to gear. Again, with the clutch fully depressed.

My car is fun, but the tranny save for having an extra gear, is just as horrid as the 5 speed on my first car: a tin can 83 ford.


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## jsc (Sep 3, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> The european companies were (and in many continue to be) the same ones opposed to decent ergonomics, reliability and all great electricals. When the Japanese took on the luxury segment suddenly BMW, MB, et al were put on notice to get it together. Even Ferrari and Lambo are building cars differently because the expectation isn't that the car will only go fast but that it will offer a few more positives to make owners happy.
> 
> So, Ferrari and Porsche (seems to be a German problem as Audi/VW have rubbery, useless trannies too) offer subpar transmissions, and by extension that excuses BMW?
> 
> ...


No problem with rapid shifts with my transmission, just as fast and more positive than my previous Honda when you get the hang of it. I find that it is very easy to do a 4 to 3 shift at 120km/h for rapid passing maneouvers on single carriageway roads. In fact, I find my 323Ci the easiest vehicle I've ever driven to shift into 1st gear smoothly while on the move (I've owned vehicles from Fiat, Triumph, VW, Toyota, Chrysler, GM, MG, Nissan and Honda in the past).

The faster you shift the BMW transmission, the better it gets when you learn to dip the clutch the right amount (not all the way to the floor most of the time, generally up around 6000 RPM I'll use only 1/3 of the clutch travel due to the revs dropping faster than at 2000 RPM where I'll use about 2/3 of the travel to achieve a smooth change).


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## djovanovi (Aug 3, 2003)

FYI, I just came back from France and found out that a bunch of ex-pats I know have failed the on-road driving test (needed to obtain a french drivers liscense) because they did NOT downshift while braking. I take from this that a suitable margin is almost certainly built into every manual transmission to allow downshifting as a normal aspect of driving ...


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