# Looks like I'm getting carbon for Christmas



## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

Engine Service soon light was on, second time in 6 months so I decided to drop off my car.

Me: "Dear SA, what is wrong with my 335d"
SA: "We looked at the codes and will need to remove the intake, we suspect carbon build-up"
Me: "Did you borescope, can you verify today what the issue is?"
SA: "Until we take off the intake and look at the valves, we'll know for sure. And since you have the extended warranty, this will be covered, so no worries"
Me: "What causes this CBU?"
SA: "It's caused by driving a diesel too hard before it warms up properly, we all do it"
Me: "....................speechless..................."

Car is a 2011 2335d with only 59K on the clock. Merry Christmas to BMW who designs a diesel that requires a cleaning every 50K to ensure proper emissions and operational efficiency......


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## NWCT335d (Nov 14, 2013)

"SA: "It's caused by driving a diesel too hard before it warms up properly, we all do it"

This = not at all true


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

johntube said:


> Car is a 2011 2335d with only 59K on the clock.  Merry Christmas to BMW who designs a diesel that requires a cleaning every 50K to ensure proper emissions and operational efficiency......


Pretty much right on schedule. It was at 53K miles for me. As I've said in other posts, this wipes out any savings the car could have provided by better MPG over the 335i. I believe BMW is at least making CBU cleaning close to their cost when on your dime. For those who keep cars a long time, the next cleaning will be on us. It appears BMW has given up trying to prevent CBU from happening, just making it less painful when it does.

I have not heard of CBU issues with the 328d or 535d, but may be too early to tell.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

John: What kind of warranty do you have? CPO/BMW extended warranty?


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## DaveN007 (Oct 4, 2013)

johntube said:


> Me: "What causes this CBU?"
> SA: "It's caused by driving a diesel too hard before it warms up properly, we all do it"


Have him put that in writing in you service order.

Ask for some written instructions from BMW regarding the proper driving of the 335d so as to avoid carbon build up.

Just for the record, the two SAs at my dealership are not slinging BS like this. Their attitude is, "Yep. It sucks. They are such great cars. But we will cover you if anything happens during factory and CPO warranty."

They put the last part it in writing.

Now it is my job to make sure I have a record of my concerns near the end of the CPO warranty so I can plead for good-will if hit with CBU before 100k miles...which I think is reasonable. (My 1984 318i went 235k miles before I had to replace the clutch. 300k before rebuilding top half of motor.)

In fact, in California the presumption of "lifespan for a vehicle" is 120k miles in the event of a lemon law case where you are figuring out how much of the vehicle you have "consumed. I only mention this as a guide when considering the question "When is it unreasonable for a 335d to fall over and die from CBU?" :dunno:


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

bimmerdiesel said:


> John: What kind of warranty do you have? CPO/BMW extended warranty?


 I have the 100k/6 yr warranty from BMW. I can't remember if it was Gold or Platinum, but it covers everything (with many exceptions) except electronics.
I've read quite a bit about CBU on our cars. My dealer did give my a line of c$#%, but at least they're covering it. I've read owners not being covered even with the BMW extended warranty. :thumbdwn:

I feel that BMW should be covering at least two, perhaps three cleanings. If all cars exhibit CBU, both gas and diesels, then the 335d is clearly "outside the norm" and should be considered a design flaw.

So, the next day, I went back to my dealer to pick up some stuff I left in the car. A conversation with another SA went like:

SA: "How do you like your diesel, would you buy another one?"
Me: "I love the way it drives, great torque! The CBU has me concerned, especially with diesel models, so I may not want to purchase another one"
SA: "Yes, BMW has had quite a few issues with this vehicle. The new diesel doesn't have problems like this model""
Me: "....................speechless................... "


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

In almost all cases, if you have any of the BMW warranties in effect, it looks like BMW will cover CBU regardless of what the fine print says. I'm sure there will be some dealers that will be a :neener:, just move your business permanently to a different dealer.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

Photos were taken and pics were sent to BMW. Waiting their approval, but SA said it's definitely CBU. 
Said it should take about 2 weeks, assuming BMW will approve in the next coupe days.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

johntube said:


> Photos were taken and pics were sent to BMW. Waiting their approval, but SA said it's definitely CBU.
> Said it should take about 2 weeks, assuming BMW will approve in the next coupe days.


Fingers crossed, let us know how it goes.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

Called the SA today: BMW has approved and the Grinch has commenced in taking my carbon present away.

I should have it back on 12/26.


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## diapason8 (Jul 1, 2011)

That is good news. My 335d is in the shop now waiting for them to pull the intake and send photos to BMW. Am hoping and praying that they'll cover the CBU cleanout like they did for you !


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

> That is good news. My 335d is in the shop now waiting for them to pull the intake and send photos to BMW. Am hoping and praying that they'll cover the CBU cleanout like they did for you !


I see you're from Southern New England.

My BMW Dealer has been extremely good every time I brought the car in during the 50K warranty and service period.

In 2011, I purchased my d. And even today, the gentleman from whom I purchased the car, always engages me in conversation. He even remembers my name, my wife's name and my hobbies. Pretty impressive.

My SA has also been very good. Prior to the 50K mark (last maintenance), the SA forgot to change the fuel and air filter, claiming the key did not instruct this service. After reading the manual, this was determined to be a mistake and these items were changed.

Point is, hopefully you have a dealer who will work with and for you.

The d has a design flaw, and BMW should owe up to it, not give us a line of c$%& that we caused the issue from our driving style.

That is what annoys me the most..........lying. But I can put up with it from the SA, as long as they fix my car.

BMW leadership and the company itself should provide d owners 3 free cleanings, one every 50K miles...........IMO


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

^^ It is a LONG list of known design defects in many marques wherein the manufacturer conspires to cover up the flaw, and mislead consumers as to the true nature of the issue. This is not a unique issue- BMW and this carbon fouling has been present in many models, and other marques. Porsche and the Gt1 engine coolant fitting debacle; the secondary air passage issue on older BMWs. Ford, Audi, etc, etc

Lawyers determine their financial exposure, the relative merits of a plaintiff case; the cost to mount the case; etc..they arrange a defense in terms of public and private documentation, and then choose a path.

In this case, they have decided to pay what it takes to pare down the defendant pool. They are fixing it under warranty, instead of the old "must be bad US gas" excuse...they are fixing it under the extended warranty, instead of saying "not covered since it is a contamination/fouling by environmental influences"...the remaining pool of defendants will be 'those without warranty past 50k, and those rare long term owners past 100k. And those that dont have a state emissions warranty past 50k..... Second owners are SOL.

So, crap on BMW and their corporate ethics when you can; make sure new buyers understand that corporations are basically unethical, self interested entities. The concept that they should 'do the right thing' is quaint...and the "what happened to the BMW that had pride in their products and stood behind the ownership experience' speaks to a concept that I dont think was really ever there.

IMO

PS I am surprised that state and federal EPA organizations are so difficult to engage. You can submit issues to NHTSA and get responses. Ive not seen much with EPA. I tried pushing some issues forward with hem and they slammed the door, now I have to do a records request path.... dicks


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## Hill (Jul 16, 2009)

ard said:


> ^^ It is a LONG list of known design defects in many marques wherein the manufacturer conspires to cover up the flaw, and mislead consumers as to the true nature of the issue. This is not a unique issue- BMW and this carbon fouling has been present in many models, and other marques. Porsche and the Gt1 engine coolant fitting debacle; the secondary air passage issue on older BMWs. Ford, Audi, etc, etc
> 
> Lawyers determine their financial exposure, the relative merits of a plaintiff case; the cost to mount the case; etc..they arrange a defense in terms of public and private documentation, and then choose a path.
> 
> ...


Exactly, and very well stated, ard.


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

*Looks like I am ALSO getting CBU for Christmas*

Well, on my way to Christmas Shopping this morning, my 2011 335d displayed a SES light. No noticeable difference in the way it drove, but I called the dealer and asked if they could take a quick look at it and check the code.

They said that it needs the CBU service and promptly put me in a brand new 528i xdrive loaner (500 miles on the odometer) and wished me a Merry Christmas and told me that they would call me in early January when my car was done. It will all be covered under the Gold extended warranty and I will only owe $50 for the service.

I have only owned this car for 3 months and I was told that the performance difference will be noticeable when the car is returned. I thought the performance was pretty incredible as it was. *Will I really notice a difference? *


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

spencer500 said:


> Well, on my way to Christmas Shopping this morning, my 2011 335d displayed a SES light. No noticeable difference in the way it drove, but I called the dealer and asked if they could take a quick look at it and check the code.
> 
> They said that it needs the CBU service and promptly put me in a brand new 528i xdrive loaner (500 miles on the odometer) and wished me a Merry Christmas and told me that they would call me in early January when my car was done. It will all be covered under the Gold extended warranty and I will only owe $50 for the service.
> 
> I have only owned this car for 3 months and I was told that the performance difference will be noticeable when the car is returned. I thought the performance was pretty incredible as it was. *Will I really notice a difference? *


By the way, I forgot to mention. 49,000 on the odometer.


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## NWCT335d (Nov 14, 2013)

spencer500 said:


> By the way, I forgot to mention. 49,000 on the odometer.


Dang, what dealer? Now that's service! It would be great to not have the issue in the first place, but to have it taken care of so quickly is great.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

spencer500 said:


> They said that it needs the CBU service and promptly put me in a brand new 528i xdrive loaner (500 miles on the odometer) and wished me a Merry Christmas and told me that they would call me in early January when my car was done. It will all be covered under the Gold extended warranty and I will only owe $50 for the service.
> 
> I have only owned this car for 3 months and I was told that the performance difference will be noticeable when the car is returned. I thought the performance was pretty incredible as it was. *Will I really notice a difference? *


At least they are now much more quickly and easily coming to the CBU diagnosis and going right to the cleaning instead of throwing parts at it dragging out the process.

You will feel a difference. It's not night and day different but will be a little more responsive, a little more power. I also felt that it sounded different. It restored that diesel growl I noted when the car was new. Biggest change is the improved (restored) MPG.


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## spencer500 (Oct 21, 2012)

NWCT335d said:


> Dang, what dealer? Now that's service! It would be great to not have the issue in the first place, but to have it taken care of so quickly is great.


Wyoming Valley BMW in Kingston, PA. They were FANTASTIC to deal with. My parents bought an X3 from them last year, and they have been great to deal with on all fronts. I actually went 60 minutes beyond my local BMW dealer because my local dealer told me that I should just keep driving it and make an appointment for mid-January which is the first that they had open and could give me a loaner.

Wyoming Valley treated me like I own a BMW, not a Chevy...(and I also own a Chevy Tahoe), but my expectation of BMW are higher when it comes to service.

Two thumbs up for Wyoming Valley BMW!


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## Nadir Point (Dec 6, 2013)

Wide variations in dealer's attitudes, policies and general tendency towards good, honest customer service is really pretty amazing. I had to try every dealer within a 50-mile radius before settling on one myself. After I did, some major work got done and we bought a car from them.

Investing in relationships is normally beneficial to both sides.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

spencer500 said:


> Wyoming Valley BMW in Kingston, PA. They were FANTASTIC to deal with. My parents bought an X3 from them last year, and they have been great to deal with on all fronts. I actually went 60 minutes beyond my local BMW dealer because my local dealer told me that I should just keep driving it and make an appointment for mid-January which is the first that they had open and could give me a loaner.
> 
> Wyoming Valley treated me like I own a BMW, not a Chevy...(and I also own a Chevy Tahoe), but my expectation of BMW are higher when it comes to service.
> 
> Two thumbs up for Wyoming Valley BMW!


Refreshing to hear!:thumbup:


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## diapason8 (Jul 1, 2011)

Good to hear ! I'm still waiting on word from BMW on my CBU cleanout (69k miles) but in the meantime the dealer gave me a 528xi as a loaner. They had given me an X1 originally, but when it became clear that it would be a couple of weeks (owing to Christmas and New Years) before I got my 335d back, the SA called me and said he had a nicer loaner for me. Very nice car, and very nice of them to upgrade the loaner when it looked like I'd be without my d for a few weeks !


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

diapason8 said:


> Good to hear ! I'm still waiting on word from BMW on my CBU cleanout (69k miles) but in the meantime the dealer gave me a 528xi as a loaner. They had given me an X1 originally, but when it became clear that it would be a couple of weeks (owing to Christmas and New Years) before I got my 335d back, the SA called me and said he had a nicer loaner for me. Very nice car, and very nice of them to upgrade the loaner when it looked like I'd be without my d for a few weeks !


 Yesterday, my SA called and informed me that my car will most likely be ready next week (due to Christmas). The intake has come back from the vendor and all that is left is reassembly and testing.

I've had a 328xi for the last couple weeks. Not too impressed with this vehicle, so I'm clearly looking for the return of the D. In comparison of the D (neglecting the obvious power differences), a 2015 328 does not steer as precisely on the highway and the interior materials are a step down. I do like the extra legroom and shoulder room of the new 3 series, but overall, seems that BMW has taken a step backwards.

I've heard that the 235i is a pretty nice vehicle, but my dealer didn't have this model as a loaner.


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## brettboat (Nov 10, 2014)

Gut that emissions system, problem solved... And Carbon build up ain't from driving too hard on a cold engine... It's from the EGR not performing a proper regen... Best way to solve this problem? Remove and/or program out all emissions controls. Not sure about your state, but alot have diesel exempt... The county I register my vehicles in has no emissions, no inspections, no nothing... On any vehicle.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

johntube said:


> Yesterday, my SA called and informed me that my car will most likely be ready next week (due to Christmas). The intake has come back from the vendor and all that is left is reassembly and testing.
> 
> I've had a 328xi for the last couple weeks. Not too impressed with this vehicle, so I'm clearly looking for the return of the D. In comparison of the D (neglecting the obvious power differences), a 2015 328 does not steer as precisely on the highway and the interior materials are a step down. I do like the extra legroom and shoulder room of the new 3 series, but overall, seems that BMW has taken a step backwards.
> 
> I've heard that the 235i is a pretty nice vehicle, but my dealer didn't have this model as a loaner.


John, if they sent out the intake they did not do the in place walnut blast as per their own SB? Any idea why?:dunno:


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

> John, if they sent out the intake they did not do the in place walnut blast as per their own SB? Any idea why?


 My SA said that cleaning will be competed by SIB 11 03 14, this was based on reading:
T847 (FC 3FF1 DDE: Air-Mass Flow Sensor Air Mass Too Low)
I was surprised to hear that only two pictures of the CBU were submitted to BMW for approval. I asked for a copy of all photos to be sent to me and was told that these two pics were it.

I know the vendor cleaned the intake, so I assume my BMW dealer did the rest of the cleaning per SIB 11 03 14. I printed a copy of this SIB. When my car is ready to be picked up, I will bring it to the dealer to ask more specific questions related to the work performed on my car.

It's always an adventure.........


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## Diesel Power (Oct 2, 2010)

Perhaps the dealer didn't have the new specialized tools needed to complete the walnut blasting.


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## KeithS (Dec 30, 2001)

Flyingman said:


> John, if they sent out the intake they did not do the in place walnut blast as per their own SB? Any idea why?:dunno:


I'm not John but my understanding is because the intake is plastic, walnut shell blasting is too harsh and would destroy the intake. So the intake is either replaced (as it was done in my case) or sent out to a shop for ultrasonic solvent cleaning (not blasting). BMW dealers do not have an ultrasonic cleaner.


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## johntube (Sep 28, 2010)

KeithS said:


> I'm not John but my understanding is because the intake is plastic, walnut shell blasting is too harsh and would destroy the intake. So the intake is either replaced (as it was done in my case) or sent out to a shop for ultrasonic solvent cleaning (not blasting). BMW dealers do not have an ultrasonic cleaner.


SIB 11 03 14 denotes:

*Recommended procedure for Manifold Cleaning:*
Send the intake manifold and swirl flaps to an engine machine shop or equivalent automotive parts
repair/reconditioning (i.e., radiator repair shop) facility for ultrasonic cleaning or a suitable, mild solvent
parts cleaning "hot tank" process. Ensure that all ports, swirl and tangential flaps are toughly cleaned.​


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## rungolden1 (Dec 14, 2014)

brettboat said:


> Gut that emissions system, problem solved... And Carbon build up ain't from driving too hard on a cold engine... It's from the EGR not performing a proper regen... Best way to solve this problem? Remove and/or program out all emissions controls. Not sure about your state, but alot have diesel exempt... The county I register my vehicles in has no emissions, no inspections, no nothing... On any vehicle.


So you really believe bypassing the EGR will prevent the problem? If so, I'm all over this!


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