# will my dealer be able to beat this? Also a ? about eloan



## duke330ci (Sep 9, 2002)

Jon,

I've ordered an '03 330Ci for performance deivery on Feb. 21. Right now, it's somewhere in the Atlantic (rather, somwhere ON the Atlantic).

I've just begun looking into financing options. Currently, I have a loan approval from Eloan for 4.69% APR for 60 months.

Considering I'm in a different market than Cutter's (Raleigh, NC), do you think my dealer will be able to beat/match this rate through BMWFS?

My FICO score is 772. However, I don't have any installment payment (loans / mortgages) history, just credit cards.

Also, I've heard that some dealers say they don't accept payment via online lenders, especially Eloan because it "takes too long to get the funds". Is this true or will they accept it after some tactful pressure on my part?

I've heard the basis of the arguement is that Eloan doesn't wire the funds fast enough which gives the dealer a cash flow deficit between delivery of the vehicle and transfer of funds. Does the fact that I'm taking delivery in SC and actually paying for the car a week before delivery make this a moot point?

Thanks for your help!
David


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

you can't guess how a particular dealer reacts to different online lenders.. not even jon can do that..

you may ask them about it beforehand.. but there's a risk they'll just say 'hell, no, we don't take eloan'


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## Gelbster (Nov 29, 2002)

David, your financing rate sounds good. As to the dealer, you should certainly ask for what rate they can offer, but I would never ask "permission" to use Eloan. When the time comes, just tell them that's how you are doing it. It's none of the dealer's business where your money is coming from, provided you obtain the money legally.

Check with Eloan as to how long it takes them to "fund" the loan. They don't start earning interest until you have the money so they have an incentive to get it to you on time.

Worst case: you (and the dealer) wait an extra day or two for the money to come in. No way will they sell the car out from under you and no way will they want to. It's just a matter of a brief delay.

Any knid of restrictive talk you hear about financing would be coercive and unethical. None of us should ever allow ourselves to be treated that way. Good luck.


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## rbright (Aug 18, 2002)

Peoplefirst will ALWAYS beat Eloan, just call and tell them you other offer. Also, Peoplefirst gives you a blank check any dealer will take. Eloans uses an electronic draft that many dealers do not take.

Always call PeopleFirst, after you get your best deal with Eloans.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

From a dealer's perspective, many/most of the "online" lenders are a pain in the a$$...

In a nutshell, they do not pay with an actual check, but rather
a "bank draft". They pay (fund) slow, and also require the 
dealer to submit a multitude of "stips" (stipulations) of 
credit approval (e.g. proof of income, proof of residence,
verification of insurance, ...etc.). They *do not* compensate
the dealer for their efforts/assistance in this regard, either. 

************************************************
David, most all BMW dealers are well armed to help people
such as yourself (superior credit risks) with rates that not
even the online lenders can match.

And I'm not talking about BMWFS here either.
Good, because they (big brother) can't censor my sorry a$$ here!!!

:flipoff:



Right now, Chase
has a retail rate (for applicants with a FICO score of
730+) _below_ 4.5% A.P.R.!!

:bigpimp:

That's right! :angel:

Not only that, they _pay_ the dealer a "flat" commission
if the dealer writes the contract at their "buy rate"; depending
on the amount financed, that could end up being as much as $275
going to a worthy cause. Finance Managers have wives, kids,
and mortgages too, ya know...
:thumbup:

Online lenders expect/require dealers to work for (them)
for FREE!
:banghead:

THEY SUKKKK!!!

:yikes:

************************************************

Please pardon my rant here; I was an F&I Manager for several
years... It's a difficult and thankless job. Most F&I people
at the "highline level" (BMW) are true professionals; I encourage
everyone to utilize them as a resource...


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> *Right now, Chase
> has a retail rate (for applicants with a FICO score of
> 730+) below 4.5% A.P.R.!!
> 
> ...


:yikes: It got that low in only a week???

:banghead:


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

I got a new (lower) rate sheet this past Friday, 
right before I left for my weekend off...


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## rbright (Aug 18, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> *I got a new (lower) rate sheet this past Friday,
> right before I left for my weekend off...
> 
> *


Are the rates lower than 4.39% for 60 months from PeopleFirst?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

rbright said:


> *Are the rates lower than 4.39% for 60 months from PeopleFirst? *


*

And they'll even pay the dealer for the business!

:thumbup:

*In order to qualify for Chase's lowest rate possible, 
the loan:value ratio must be "in line" (i.e. a good down 
payment is required; the "carry back" or "advance"
should be 90% or less of invoice)...


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## dlloyd1975 (Sep 8, 2002)

Those wouldn't happen to be for 03 models as wel,l would they?

BTW, Jon, your posting info to this message board was essential to my wife and I deciding on purchasing a BMW. Tell BMWNA to put that in their pipe and smoke it!

Perhaps it's just that BMWNA just doesn't get Internet marketing. The great thing about the 'net is that customers can find the information on their own and learn about a product. That leads to a more personal feel when a sale is made, or, at least a more educated feel on the part of the customer. By creating and fostering online forums like this, BMW employees allow consumers to feel like they're part of a community, not just another digit in BMW's sales figures. That sense of community builds brand loyalty and helps BMW sales no matter what the marketing and legal wonks think.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dlloyd1975 said:


> *Those wouldn't happen to be for 03 models as wel,l would they?
> *


Chase's California retail rates are good for 2002's, and
2003's - up to *66* months...

I can only assume that the retail rates for other
areas of the country are about the same.

I do appreciate positive feedback, btw!
:bigpimp:


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## jrubens (Aug 14, 2002)

do you know if Chase will do european delivery financing?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

jrubens said:


> *do you know if Chase will do european delivery financing? *


Unfortunately, I don't think that they do...


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Have you tried your local Credit Union? They often have very aggressive rates. I've seen a couple of local credit unions (L.A.) advertise rates as low as 2.9% for more aggressive terms (36 mo) with very good credit rating (700 or above). You will probably need to pay ~$25 for a share of the CU to join, but if you already belong to a credit union it won't hurt to ask.

The average CU auto loan rate are usually quite a bit lower than bank rates, and most of the time a lot of your local credit union has working relationships with certain dealerships. It won't hurt to ask.


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## DCC (Apr 16, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> *Unfortunately, I don't think that they do... *


What makes Euro Delivery Financing Different?


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

DCC said:


> *What makes Euro Delivery Financing Different? *


The collateral is unrecoverable until the car arrives here...

"Repo Man's always intense"...


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## dlloyd1975 (Sep 8, 2002)

Jon Shafer said:


> *The collateral is unrecoverable until the car arrives here...
> 
> "Repo Man's always intense"...
> 
> *


Hmm. I hadn't even thought of that.

Well, given that some finance companies appear to be picky about being to reach out and touch someone, anything that you'd recommend for ED? Just regular 'ol BMWFS?


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## 3or5er (Nov 26, 2002)

The HACK said:


> *Have you tried your local Credit Union? They often have very aggressive rates. I've seen a couple of local credit unions (L.A.) advertise rates as low as 2.9% for more aggressive terms (36 mo) with very good credit rating (700 or above). You will probably need to pay ~$25 for a share of the CU to join, but if you already belong to a credit union it won't hurt to ask.
> 
> The average CU auto loan rate are usually quite a bit lower than bank rates, and most of the time a lot of your local credit union has working relationships with certain dealerships. It won't hurt to ask. *


They also stipulate, in 0 pt prints, on approved credit only. In other words, even if you have a credit score of 750 from all three credit bureaus, if there is one thing they don't like (such as a previous bankruptcy) your hosed. I had my application rejected by BMWFS because of a bk within 2 years. Not trying to brag, but I make well over 150k with almost 0 debt. I wish they would focus more on your future ability to pay than on a couple of dings on your credit reports. Rant over.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

dlloyd1975 said:


> *Hmm. I hadn't even thought of that.
> 
> Well, given that some finance companies appear to be picky about being to reach out and touch someone, anything that you'd recommend for ED? Just regular 'ol BMWFS? *


Yes, I recommend good 'ol BMWFS for ED...


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

3or5er said:


> *I had my application rejected by BMWFS because of a bk within 2 years. Not trying to brag, but I make well over 150k with almost 0 debt. I wish they would focus more on your future ability to pay than on a couple of dings on your credit reports. Rant over. *


You think that a recent bankruptcy is just a little ding? :yikes:


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## 3or5er (Nov 26, 2002)

I never said it's little.  
But the whole point is if you have a steady stream of income, no debts, and you've rebuilt your credit score above 750, who cares if you had a bankruptcy within 2 years? You cannot file again in 6 years!:bigpimp: So where is the risk? From a pure business standpoint, easy money for BMWFS.
With all the layoffs and outstanding loans going on anybody can file anytime. I happen to know three arrogant lawyers who filed.:eeps:


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## rbright (Aug 18, 2002)

3or5er said:


> *They also stipulate, in 0 pt prints, on approved credit only. In other words, even if you have a credit score of 750 from all three credit bureaus, if there is one thing they don't like (such as a previous bankruptcy) your hosed. I had my application rejected by BMWFS because of a bk within 2 years. Not trying to brag, but I make well over 150k with almost 0 debt. I wish they would focus more on your future ability to pay than on a couple of dings on your credit reports. Rant over. *


Hell, who wouldn't have excellent future ability to pay with that income and 0 debt. Especially since they were able to wipe out all their debt, and screw their previous lenders...only 2 years ago?

They base it on just exactly how you got to 0 debt, and BK seems not to be a way of choice for future lenders. God only knows what kind of debt you had to wipe out, if you couldn't afford to pay it with a $150K income.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

3or5er said:


> *I never said it's little.
> But the whole point is if you have a steady stream of income, no debts, and you've rebuilt your credit score above 750, who cares if you had a bankruptcy within 2 years? You cannot file again in 6 years!:bigpimp: So where is the risk? From a pure business standpoint, easy money for BMWFS.
> With all the layoffs and outstanding loans going on anybody can file anytime. I happen to know three arrogant lawyers who filed.:eeps: *


That's how the industry works. They look at your HISTORY and assess you on a risk basis. If you have any bankruptcy in the past 7 years or so it's going to show up as a black mark, regardless of your earning potential. They don't CARE how much you can be making, because you can easily lose your job the next day or your business can all of a sudden suffer a catastrophe. The history of high risk is there...That's the downside to declaring bankruptcy.

If you are pulling in $150K and have no other debt, why not just pay cash?


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## 3or5er (Nov 26, 2002)

rbright said:


> *Hell, who wouldn't have excellent future ability to pay with that income and 0 debt. Especially since they were able to wipe out all their debt, and screw their previous lenders...only 2 years ago?
> 
> They base it on just exactly how you got to 0 debt, and BK seems not to be a way of choice for future lenders. God only knows what kind of debt you had to wipe out, if you couldn't afford to pay it with a $150K income. *


Not to get too much into my personal life, the debts were mostly credit card balance transfers to cover my going south fast margin account. When I lost my job I was unable to pay. I started the 150k a year job 14 months ago after bk was discharged.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

3or5er said:


> *Not to get too much into my personal life, the debts were mostly credit card balance transfers to cover my going south fast margin account. When I lost my job I was unable to pay. I started the 150k a year job 14 months ago after bk was discharged. *


Again, the financial industry is an extremely RISK ADVERSE industry. There's no way in hell any lender would even think about lending you the $$$ especially given your past history, especially since you've already established that you "lost my job I was unable to pay."

Only way I can see you in a new car is you pay cash, period.


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

3or5er said:


> *Not to get too much into my personal life, the debts were mostly credit card balance transfers to cover my going south fast margin account. When I lost my job I was unable to pay. I started the 150k a year job 14 months ago after bk was discharged. *


So, what you're saying is that you've proven your ability and willingness to overextend yourself. It doesn't look like you're saying that lenders are wrong to consider that, only that you wish that they didn't. No fuss, no muss.


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## CD-55 (Dec 19, 2001)

3or5er said:


> *Not to get too much into my personal life, the debts were mostly credit card balance transfers to cover my going south fast margin account. When I lost my job I was unable to pay. I started the 150k a year job 14 months ago after bk was discharged. *


The bank is afraid that since you leveraged your wealth away once before&#8230; you may be inclined to risk it all again.

Even if you cannot file for bankruptcy for a few more years&#8230; you can still run out of money to pay the loan. Also, the bank may not be so convinced that you will keep your new job for so long. How do they know you won't quit or that the company won't go under and leave you without a salary?

Honestly with $150K you should just delay a few months and pay for a bimmer 100% with your own cash. That will save you $$ (interest) anyway.


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## StLChris (Jun 7, 2002)

3or5er said:


> *Not to get too much into my personal life, the debts were mostly credit card balance transfers to cover my going south fast margin account. When I lost my job I was unable to pay. I started the 150k a year job 14 months ago after bk was discharged. *


I don't know if you'll have to pay all cash, but I bet you'll need to put at least 40% down.

You obviously have the means to repay the loan now but the thing that works against you is that you can't file bankruptcy. Credit card lenders are happy that you can't file again because now they can go after other assets should things turn south again. BMWs make nice assets. Do you think that BMWFS wants to fight with Capital One or MBNA? Me neither.

I say wait a few months and pay cash.


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## 3or5er (Nov 26, 2002)

CD-55 said:


> *The bank is afraid that since you leveraged your wealth away once before? you may be inclined to risk it all again.
> 
> Even if you cannot file for bankruptcy for a few more years? you can still run out of money to pay the loan. Also, the bank may not be so convinced that you will keep your new job for so long. How do they know you won?t quit or that the company won?t go under and leave you without a salary?
> 
> Honestly with $150K you should just delay a few months and pay for a bimmer 100% with your own cash. That will save you $$ (interest) anyway. *


Point taken, I will pay cash for the ED:thumbup: 
BTW, for my 03 Camry I was able to secure a loan from Ford Credit at 12.99%. So screw BMWFS:flipoff:


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## rbright (Aug 18, 2002)

3or5er said:


> *Point taken, I will pay cash for the ED:thumbup:
> BTW, for my 03 Camry I was able to secure a loan from Ford Credit at 12.99%. So screw BMWFS:flipoff: *


Dude,

I'll give you a loan for a new BMW for 16%, and 40% down.

I think you are still missing the point. You have BAD credit. You played the BK card, which is very wrong if you want future loans. You screwed over your creditors because you played the stock margins game...and LOST. It is YOUR fault, and now YOU are paying the price.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

BMWFS will finance or lease somebody a car provided that
there is some sort of "re-stablishment" with car credit
post BK... People with credit issues can always get 
bought with a big down (favorable loan:value in the event
of repo), or with MSD's, or even a "prepay" lease.

Chase won't even consider a BK...


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

3or5er said:


> *Point taken, I will pay cash for the ED:thumbup:
> BTW, for my 03 Camry I was able to secure a loan from Ford Credit at 12.99%. So screw BMWFS:flipoff: *


12.99%!!!! :yikes: :yikes: sounds like Bankruptcy rates to me.


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