# M3 Slots around?



## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

Hello,

Does any dealer have M3 slots available? I'm looking at ordering, with a pickup for the last week of march to the first or maybe second week of April.

Please PM me


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## 335Fanatic (Aug 6, 2009)

furby076 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does any dealer have M3 slots available? I'm looking at ordering, with a pickup for the last week of march to the first or maybe second week of April.
> 
> Please PM me


M3 allocations are very tough to get right now. So even if you find one, the price might not be very aggressive. Your best bet to find a good ideal (# close to Invoice) would be to get a car from the lot in March (if you aren't too specific about the options). This also depends on the area you're in. Tri-state area, for example, is one of the better ones to get a good deal.


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## visi107 (Mar 20, 2013)

furby076 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Does any dealer have M3 slots available? I'm looking at ordering, with a pickup for the last week of march to the first or maybe second week of April.
> 
> Please PM me


furby, i thought you already ordered your car 1-2 months ago for ED pickup


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

visi107 said:


> furby, i thought you already ordered your car 1-2 months ago for ED pickup


I thought so as well... :dunno:


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

I did...and a week ago apparantly not.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

furby076 said:


> I did...and a week ago apparantly not.


Hey Furby. Why not get in touch with Adrian. He might have an open allocation.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

It's tough to buy M3's right now!


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> Hey Furby. Why not get in touch with Adrian. He might have an open allocation.


Thanks, buddy. I have a wait list three deep for the next round of allocations. But I think some dealers have longer lists. Don't even ask about the M2. :yikes:


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

Between allocations, and splitting the M3 into two lines, BMW has sure made it difficult to get a car


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

How about 340i M-sport with M performance accessories installed? Allocations are fairly accessible and invoice plus pricing is quite doable.


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## visi107 (Mar 20, 2013)

furby076 said:


> I did...and a week ago apparantly not.


Sent you a PM.


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## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm working through my list now. Money talks.


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I'm working through my list now. Money talks.


I don't know what that means. My money is green


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## visi107 (Mar 20, 2013)

Mine just says good bye!


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I'm working through my list now. Money talks.





furby076 said:


> I don't know what that means. My money is green


It means if you pay him $2500 or $5000 over MSRP you get to the front of the "list'.

You see it isnt a 'list'. Its a secret auction in which salesmen arent really very honest with the people on the list. Stories are told about how "bmw is screwing us" to explain how someone at #1 doesnt get their car...
'

Supply and demand, and all that- but when a BMW salesman whines about how "invoice deals" I am more that happy to point out the reap what they sow


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

furby076 said:


> I don't know what that means. My money is green


I guess it is the old supply and demand - demand is high and people are getting M3's and allocations - with prices closer to MSRP!


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

ard said:


> It means if you pay him $2500 or $5000 over MSRP you get to the front of the "list'.
> 
> You see it isnt a 'list'. Its a secret auction in which salesmen arent really very honest with the people on the list. Stories are told about how "bmw is screwing us" to explain how someone at #1 doesnt get their car...
> '
> ...





turpiwa said:


> I guess it is the old supply and demand - demand is high and people are getting M3's and allocations - with prices closer to MSRP!


Thanks. Didn't realize it. Yes, that is underhanded. When you tell someone "you are first" and then string them along (especially if they are holding your deposit).

The supply control is really artificial and not necessary. They "shrunk" the supply by splitting to 3/4 series.
From a business perspective, I would think the best way: Make unlimited supply, and let the price determine the demand. Even ED straight invoice is too expensive for most people - that is a natural demand nullifier.

Ahh well.

Anyhow, I just spoke with a dealer and he gave me a PO number. Once I see it on the myBMW website (he says Monday) I will rejoice and let the group know.


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## BimmerBahn (Nov 24, 2005)

I started the groundwork back in December for an M3 allocation for a fall Euro delivery, so a MY17 car. One of the stores informed me that BMW NA is allowing M4 allocations to be converted to M3's due to the whole issue with M3 allocation numbers. Essentially that I wouldn't have an issue getting an allocation. Granted, I'll believe it when I see it, but it's an interesting development that if true, would help with the whole allocation debacle.

I'm getting close to ordering....will pass along anything else I hear.

Cheers,


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## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2014)

ard said:


> It means if you pay him $2500 or $5000 over MSRP you get to the front of the "list'.
> 
> You see it isnt a 'list'. Its a secret auction in which salesmen arent really very honest with the people on the list. Stories are told about how "bmw is screwing us" to explain how someone at #1 doesnt get their car...
> 
> ...


Oh, is that what I mean? LOL. I traded cars away to get allocations for Clients who are not paying MSRP. There is way more to the business than a couple M3s at MSRP. PM me and we can discuss.

Anyways, I know of dealers who don't have a waitlist at all. However, they are not moving off MSRP. If someone calls and pays MSRP, then there will be a production number assigned. This is what I am referring to.

You are exactly right, invoice deals are a result of supply and demand. Frankly, I love working deals on the lower demand cars. Everyone seems to be on the same page about the value.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

I would guess that BMW learned a thing or two about the sales (or lack thereof) of the E9x M3 and is adjusting the production of the F8x month-by-month and dealer-to-dealer to be as lean as possible, causing this apparent allocation bottleneck.


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## Weaselboy (Jul 7, 2002)

Ninong said:


> So it makes no sense for BMW to ignore the realities of the marketplace. Some dealers sell more of a certain model than other dealers and those dealers will receive more of them next year. You can always sell out all of your allocation as soon as you get it and ask BMW to give you a few extra since you have none and that other guy has too many. Then next year you will get more based on this year's performance.


Yeah... I get all that in the aggregate market, but it seems like this model would break down with a low volume model like an M3. At least from the dealer's perspective.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Weaselboy said:


> Yeah... I get all that in the aggregate market, but it seems like this model would break down with a low volume model like an M3. At least from the dealer's perspective.


Do you think low volume models should be divided evenly among the various BMW dealerships regardless of their previous sales history? Or do you think the dealers who have a history of selling the most should receive more than other dealers?

What about the new M4 GTS? How do you think it should be allocated? Bear in mind that BMW M intends to build only 700 worldwide. I have read in the Automotive press that 300 of those will be coming to the US. How should those be distributed among BMW's 339 US dealers? Should some dealers get more than one? Bonus question: Should any customer be allowed to purchase more than one?


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

I believe its first cone first sell. So if they wanna make 3000 M3s ok. Whoever gets the order in first wins. There you go

Btw supply and demand arguments only work when limited supply is due to some resource or inability ro manufacture. This is artificial supply control by bmw. They can make ms as much as they do 3 series


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## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

furby076 said:


> Bayoucity and i hit up a dealer. Nice folks....they said they are trying to get me a slot. Took a wire transfer, ran my credit.,,..3 weeks later they said they couldn't find one. For bayoucity, they told him to book his flights (his date is in june and they said it wouldn't be an issue). They cancelled his as well. Good thing he didn't book 4 non refundable tickets. Changing your tickets costs 200 per ticket.... all caused by allocations.
> 
> So how is this system good for customers?


That's messed up. I'm really sorry to hear this.  I would've never told a client to book flights or make any travel arrangements until I saw a confirmation in the order system that a date was in there for pick up.


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## Weaselboy (Jul 7, 2002)

Ninong said:


> Do you think low volume models should be divided evenly among the various BMW dealerships regardless of their previous sales history? Or do you think the dealers who have a history of selling the most should receive more than other dealers?


I think you already understand my point.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

furby076 said:


> I did...and a week ago apparantly not.


What specs are you ordering Furby?


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

M3
So
Lightning 
Exec
Drive assist
Dct
Park assist
Enh bluetooth
Full merino black
Competition


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

furby076 said:


> M3
> So
> Lightning
> Exec
> ...


Nice. I am pretty similar 
So
Full silver stone
Red individual contrast stitching (hopefully)
Piano finish
Exec 
Drive assist
Manual tranny
Park assist
Power rear sunshade
Carbon fiber roof
Lighting
Eng BT
Competition


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

I think so as well...



furby076 said:


> I believe its first cone first sell. So if they wanna make 3000 M3s ok. Whoever gets the order in first wins. There you go
> 
> Btw supply and demand arguments only work when limited supply is due to some resource or inability ro manufacture.* This is artificial supply control by bmw.* They can make ms as much as they do 3 series


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

Weaselboy said:


> I think you already understand my point.


Yes, I do. I just wanted you to see that from BMW's point of view it's not as simple as some may think. If they have a limited supply of a model that is in relatively high demand, they're not going to distribute it evenly among all their dealers, they're going to allocate it based on past performance.

For that reason I suspect that when the new M4 GTS is released, some dealers may get more than one and many dealers will get none.


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

turpiwa said:


> Nice. I am pretty similar
> So
> Full silver stone
> Red individual contrast stitching (hopefully)
> ...


I hope you get yours soon. I'm waiting for my date to get approved (THursday i hope)



Ninong said:


> Yes, I do. I just wanted you to see that from BMW's point of view it's not as simple as some may think. If they have a limited supply of a model that is in relatively high demand, they're not going to distribute it evenly among all their dealers, they're going to allocate it based on past performance.
> 
> For that reason I suspect that when the new M4 GTS is released, some dealers may get more than one and many dealers will get none.


Again, the supply constraint is artificial. BMW can produce as many as they want. They make the process opaque, inconvenient and customer unfriendly. That is not a good business model


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## neilsarkar (Jan 21, 2012)

furby076 said:


> Again, the supply constraint is artificial. BMW can produce as many as they want. They make the process opaque, inconvenient and customer unfriendly. That is not a good business model


+1.

Opaque, inconvenient, and customer-unfriendly: doesn't that summerize pretty much the entire retail front of automobile business?

I guess the only fair/tranparent way to acquire a high performance sedan would be to order a Tesla P90D


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

Hey all. Just as an update....I got a slot and a delivery date.

Here is an interesting thing (and sales people, please let me know if this is an anomaly)....I spoke to the guy, and a production number was in my Inbox in less than an hour. The guy said he had it, and he sent it.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

Most probably the stars aligned for you... right time, right allocation, right salesperson.



furby076 said:


> Hey all. Just as an update....I got a slot and a delivery date.
> 
> Here is an interesting thing (and sales people, please let me know if this is an anomaly)....I spoke to the guy, and a production number was in my Inbox in less than an hour. The guy said he had it, and he sent it.


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

furby076 said:


> Hey all. Just as an update....I got a slot and a delivery date.
> 
> Here is an interesting thing (and sales people, please let me know if this is an anomaly)....I spoke to the guy, and a production number was in my Inbox in less than an hour. The guy said he had it, and he sent it.


Hey bud, I envy. It's too bad we cannot be on the same boat even we plan it many moons ago. 

I'm tired of this allocation. This is the most buyer unfriendly process I've encountered and I'm being totally honest here. I'm happy for you.

Congrats. :thumbup:


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

bayoucity said:


> Hey bud, I envy. It's too bad we cannot be on the same boat even we plan it many moons ago.
> 
> I'm tired of this allocation. This is the most buyer unfriendly process I've encountered and I'm being totally honest here. I'm happy for you.
> 
> Congrats. :thumbup:


Agreed, this process is not acceptable. BMW needs to reevaluate their process. If i could rate the three other dealerships that took my deposit, took my credit information, and said they got this - they would get 1's. Unfortunately, the only person who gets rated is the person who completed the sale, and that person has been awesome so far - so he gets perfect scores


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

///M-Furby said:


> Unfortunately, the only person who gets rated is the person who completed the sale, and that person has been awesome so far - so he gets perfect scores


That's not exactly true, especially since you are paying customer and not just a customer who would like to tell them why you didn't buy one of their cars. BMW says they always welcome your comments and suggestions, so have at it. Let them know if you are unhappy with their policies and procedures.

BMW of North America: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/ContactUs/

BMW Group in Munich: https://secure.bmwgroup.com/e/0_2_dialog/0_2_dialog.shtml

Be sure to mention your production number, if you like, to prove that you are a very current, but not altogether happy, BMW customer.

Thanks!


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

///M-Furby said:


> Hey all. Just as an update....I got a slot and a delivery date.
> 
> Here is an interesting thing (and sales people, please let me know if this is an anomaly)....I spoke to the guy, and a production number was in my Inbox in less than an hour. The guy said he had it, and he sent it.


First, glad your saga is over Furby and you have the car you want. When ordering a new BMW, my experience has always been that I got the production number as soon as I placed the order (within minutes). Of course, almost all of my custom order cars came from Adrian and all of us know how great he is at taking care of clients.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

Again, thanks for reporting back to let us know Mission was Accomplished. Looking forward to your ED experience and travel reportings come April.


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

///M-Furby said:


> I hope you get yours soon. I'm waiting for my date to get approved (THursday i hope)
> 
> Again, the supply constraint is artificial. BMW can produce as many as they want. * They make the process opaque, inconvenient and customer unfriendly.* That is not a good business model


:rofl: Tell us what you really think. Can't say your wrong. Glad it worked out in the end. N4S


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## JTDM (Jul 22, 2014)

///M-Furby said:


> Agreed, this process is not acceptable. BMW needs to reevaluate their process. If i could rate the three other dealerships that took my deposit, took my credit information, and said they got this - they would get 1's. Unfortunately, the only person who gets rated is the person who completed the sale, and that person has been awesome so far - so he gets perfect scores


if you decide public disclose dealer info isn't your cup of tea....I'd like to know it via PM....Save ppl time, or at least manage the expectation


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

///M-Furby said:


> Hey all. Just as an update....I got a slot and a delivery date.
> 
> Here is an interesting thing (and sales people, please let me know if this is an anomaly)....I spoke to the guy, and a production number was in my Inbox in less than an hour. The guy said he had it, and he sent it.


One possible explanation would be that he modified an existing dealer order and changed it to Priority 1 in your name. I assume that's still possible? The colors can be changed and the options can be changed, you just can't change the model itself. You can do that prior to the car entering production as long as it didn't previously have any Individual stuff approved and as long as you aren't trying to add new Individual stuff to it with your modifications.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Theoretically speaking - could you place a ED order for a car that doesn't have supply issues - say a 328i, get a production number and therefore secure your ED date. Then when a production number becomes available for the car you want change to order - customers change their mind all the time? Theoretically speaking of course


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

turpiwa said:


> Theoretically speaking - could you place a ED order for a car that doesn't have supply issues - say a 328i, get a production number and therefore secure your ED date. Then when a production number becomes available for the car you want change to order - customers change their mind all the time? Theoretically speaking of course


I don't understand what you're saying???

Are you asking if you can change a 328i to something else? If so, the answer is no.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Ninong said:


> I don't understand what you're saying???
> 
> Are you asking if you can change a 328i to something else? If so, the answer is no.


It could be a legitimate scenario though. Some guy orders a 328 then gets a promotion or comes into some money or just has a mid life crisis and decides he wants an M3 so cancels his order and changes it to a M3 - could he keep his ED slot?


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

JTDM said:


> if you decide public disclose dealer info isn't your cup of tea....I'd like to know it via PM....Save ppl time, or at least manage the expectation


Normally, wouldn't but I am kinda livid about this.

BMW of the Mainline -> These guys came to a handshake deal with me. I got them a referral that actually let them sell a car (they acknowledged this in email). When it came time to close the deal - they raised the price by 1000. Original was 1400 over invoice
BMW of Devon -> Took my deposit and credit information. Week later, refund
Zimbrick BMW -> Took deposit and credit info. They said they were trying to get me allocation (for about 3 weeks). In the end refund (still waiting for check in the mail)



Ninong said:


> One possible explanation would be that he modified an existing dealer order and changed it to Priority 1 in your name. I assume that's still possible? The colors can be changed and the options can be changed, you just can't change the model itself. You can do that prior to the car entering production as long as it didn't previously have any Individual stuff approved and as long as you aren't trying to add new Individual stuff to it with your modifications.


I'm not sure what he did, but it was fast. He got me the order number in about 30 minutes.


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

///M-Furby said:


> ...
> 
> I'm not sure what he did, but it was fast. He got me the order number in about 30 minutes.


You are in good shape, he is a great guy. He even offer me a slot earlier today which I can't take due to 3 months earlier than my desired date.

I'm really tired of this so-called allocation. I think I'm getting close to ditch M3 all together and get a C63. Ironically, M3 will actually cost me more due to my fleet/supplier discount with MB.

I cannot comprehend why BMW NA punishes their buyers /lessees . A potential buyer needs to spend lot's of time with shotgun approach to figure out which dealer has allocation. This is stupid and doesn't offer that " Starbucks Experience" to their most loyal owners. Whatever...


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

turpiwa said:


> It could be a legitimate scenario though. Some guy orders a 328 then gets a promotion or comes into some money or just has a mid life crisis and decides he wants an M3 so cancels his order and changes it to a M3 - could he keep his ED slot?


If by "slot" you mean allocation, then the answer is no. The dealer will have to enter a new order into the system for an M3, assuming he has an open allocation for an M3. It has nothing to do with your previous order for a 328i. You're starting over fresh, assuming your dealer has an allocation.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Ninong said:


> If by "slot" you mean allocation, then the answer is no. The dealer will have to enter a new order into the system for an M3, assuming he has an open allocation for an M3. It has nothing to do with your previous order for a 328i. You're starting over fresh, assuming your dealer has an allocation.


Yes I understand the order would be canceled and new order made. I guess the crux of the matter in this scenario is would you be able to keep your ED delivery date and time and transfer it to the new deal.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

bayoucity said:


> I cannot comprehend why BMW NA punishes their buyers /lessees . A potential buyer needs to spend lot's of time with shotgun approach to figure out which dealer has allocation. This is stupid and doesn't offer that " Starbucks Experience" to their most loyal owners. Whatever...


Let me try to explain this one more time. BMW plans their production schedules a year in advance. They determine how many M3's they expect to produce next year and then they determine which markets around the world will get how many of those M3's. They tell BMWNA how many they can expect and then BMWNA decides how many each dealer will get based on their previous year's sales of that model. They can make adjustments as the year goes on but the whole plan is to fairly allocate the cars they expect to get from BMW M.

BMW is not punishing the customers. You might ask them if they know what they're doing when one dealer has 18 of them on his lot and other dealers have none. Maybe that dealer sells that many and maybe that's why he needs that many in stock that are unsold? Or maybe he holding gross on them and that's why they're sitting there?

Locate a dealership that has an open allocation that meets your schedule and work with them if your local dealership can't meet your schedule.

P.S. -- Do I think BMW messed up with the M3 production schedules? Yes, and I said that a couple of years back when Automotive News reported that BMW planned to produce 7 M4's for each M3 because that's what they projected the market to be for their new M4. They have since adjusted that ratio to less than 7-1 but maybe it's still off?

Don't forget, demand fluctuates. BMW's plans to not. They're very inflexible. They're not like Chevy or Ford. They don't suddenly start making more M3's just because demand is up at the moment. They might think about making changes to a model's production schedule if the average backlog is more than 60 days but I don't see it being anywhere near that right now, not when that Bimmerfest sponsor dealer has 14 M3's, 9 M4's, 8 M5's and 6 M6's unsold in stock right now.

Maybe dealers don't like doing European Delivery on an M3? Could that be it?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

turpiwa said:


> Yes I understand the order would be canceled and new order made. I guess the crux of the matter in this scenario is would you be able to keep your ED delivery date and time and transfer it to the new deal.


Possibly, but that would require that the dealer have an open allocation for an M3 that could be produced in time to be ready for delivery then. However, once you cancel your 328i order, that's the end of your scheduled delivery date. Then you would have to request the exact same delivery date when BMW asks you for your three delivery choices.


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## 1northcar (Mar 7, 2015)

Ninong said:


> Let me try to explain this one more time. BMW plans their production schedules a year in advance. They determine how many M3's they expect to produce next year and then they determine which markets around the world will get how many of those M3's. They tell BMWNA how many they can expect and then BMWNA decides how many each dealer will get based on their previous year's sales of that model. They can make adjustments as the year goes on but the whole plan is to fairly allocate the cars they expect to get from BMW M.
> 
> BMW is not punishing the customers. You might ask them if they know what they're doing when one dealer has 18 of them on his lot and other dealers have none. Maybe that dealer sells that many and maybe that's why he needs that many in stock that are unsold? Or maybe he holding gross on them and that's why they're sitting there?
> 
> ...


I am surprised that BNW plans their production schedule a year in advance. On the factory tours they take great pride in announcing that every car manufactured is pre sold and they do not build cars on spec. They are equally proud of their ability to have one car follow a different model on the same assembly line. Of course there is also the "just in time" process where BMW does not have a lot of spare parts sitting around based on projections from a year prior. It does seem that the manufacturing process has a lot of flexibility built into it where the supply of any model can be adjusted to demand in a matter of months, if not weeks.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

///M-Furby said:


> Normally, wouldn't but I am kinda livid about this.
> 
> BMW of the Mainline -> These guys came to a handshake deal with me. I got them a referral that actually let them sell a car (they acknowledged this in email). When it came time to close the deal - they raised the price by 1000. Original was 1400 over invoice
> BMW of Devon -> Took my deposit and credit information. Week later, refund
> ...


Hmm, I was born and raised in the Mainline P.A. area. I am very familiar with both dealerships that you mentioned. BMW Main Line used to be Devon Hill BMW and that store has had a crappy reputation since I was a kid (I went to school with a dude who's family owned all of the Devon Hill car franchises in the 80's). If I knew you were shopping both of those stores, I would have warned you to stay far away....especially from BMW of Main Line. There are no good BMW stores in the Philly suburbs and Maine Line is probably the worst of a bad bunch. As far as your deal with BMW of LongBeach, they have a decent reputation and Kohi Deap was a fest sponsor for years with BMW Long Beach. He left the car business last year and I heard others got good deals with AB who did your deal so things are looking up for you.


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## bayoucity (Jun 11, 2010)

Ninong said:


> Let me try to explain this one more time. BMW plans their production schedules a year in advance. They determine how many M3's they expect to produce next year and then they determine which markets around the world will get how many of those M3's. They tell BMWNA how many they can expect and then BMWNA decides how many each dealer will get based on their previous year's sales of that model. They can make adjustments as the year goes on but the whole plan is to fairly allocate the cars they expect to get from BMW M.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your inputs. I know you love BMW AG and I love them as much as you do ( multiple BMW ownerships, BMWCCA, Welt, PCD... ) . However , BMW's assembly line is running on "just in time " /or "just in sequence (JIT/S) .

http://www.slideshare.net/SachinMat...stribution-sourcing-strategies-and-mechanisms



Ninong said:


> BMW is not punishing the customers. You might ask them if they know what they're doing when one dealer has 18 of them on his lot and other dealers have none. Maybe that dealer sells that many and maybe that's why he needs that many in stock that are unsold? Or maybe he holding gross on them and that's why they're sitting there?
> 
> Locate a dealership that has an open allocation that meets your schedule and work with them if your local dealership can't meet your schedule.
> 
> P.S. -- Do I think BMW messed up with the M3 production schedules? Yes, and I said that a couple of years back when Automotive News reported that BMW planned to produce 7 M4's for each M3 because that's what they projected the market to be for their new M4. They have since adjusted that ratio to less than 7-1 but maybe it's still off?


It's a free market system, dealerships are allowed to do whatever they wish. But I do believe majority M car buyers prefer custom order. This isn't about buying Kia, I don't want to pick my $70-80k from the lot without my prefer built.



Ninong said:


> Don't forget, demand fluctuates. BMW's plans to not. They're very inflexible. They're not like Chevy or Ford. They don't suddenly start making more M3's just because demand is up at the moment. They might think about making changes to a model's production schedule if the average backlog is more than 60 days but I don't see it being anywhere near that right now, not when that Bimmerfest sponsor dealer has 14 M3's, 9 M4's, 8 M5's and 6 M6's unsold in stock right now.
> 
> Maybe dealers don't like doing European Delivery on an M3? Could that be it?


Their plant is very flexible.

We have gone thru this process together and dealers are "loving "ED on M3 , quite the contrary . If you have followed Furby's posting, you will know everyone loves taking apps, deposit and order. The problem is they don't tell you the lack of allocation hence no production number. Your so called "placed order" sits in the order bank gets no chance of execution . First in doesn't mean first out. If they are nice enough, they will contact in a few weeks to give you some excuses.

I encourage you to try out this process. It is time consuming and tiring at times due to planning travel arrangement simultaneously .


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

bayoucity said:


> I appreciate your inputs. I know you love BMW AG and I love them as much as you do ( multiple BMW ownerships, BMWCCA, Welt, PCD... ) . However , BMW's assembly line is running on "just in time " /or "just in sequence (JIT/S) .
> 
> http://www.slideshare.net/SachinMat...stribution-sourcing-strategies-and-mechanisms
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. I just had that experience and it's not ideal, but in my case I got 90% of what I wanted and had to pay for a couple of extra options I wouldn't have ordered. N4S


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

1northcar said:


> I am surprised that BNW plans their production schedule a year in advance. On the factory tours they take great pride in announcing that every car manufactured is pre sold and they do not build cars on spec. They are equally proud of their ability to have one car follow a different model on the same assembly line. Of course there is also the "just in time" process where BMW does not have a lot of spare parts sitting around based on projections from a year prior. It does seem that the manufacturing process has a lot of flexibility built into it where the supply of any model can be adjusted to demand in a matter of months, if not weeks.


Let me start over because I'm obviously not explaining this properly.

BMW determines in advance how many of each series they plan to produce and where they plan to produce them. They call that managed growth because they pride themselves on not responding quickly to fluctuations in the market. They do not want to expand too quickly just because a certain model happens to be hot at the moment. They responded to the unanticipated strong demand for the i8 but only after their worldwide backlog reached 10-11 months in some markets.

This has absolutely nothing to do with whether the factory is flexible or not. And absolutely nothing to do with any particular car. All I'm talking about is that they decide in advance how many M4's they will make and how many M3's they will make and at which plants they will make them.

Right now they are moving production of 3-series cars from South Africa to Europe so that they can build the new X3's there as well as Spartanburg. But they know in advance how many X3's they will build and they pass that information on the their various importers around the world (i.e., BMWNA, BMA Canada, etc.). Once BMWNA gets their allocation for the US for the next year, they decide on how many of each model each dealership will be allocated. In other words, they plan how they intend to distribute the cars they will received from BMW based on each dealer's previous year's sales.

Whether the factory has the flexibility to switch from one model to another in a matter of days or weeks is not the point. The point is that BMW chooses to not make changes to their plans as quickly as we might like. They have always been notoriously slow to respond to surges in demand and it's all tied in to their strict trade unions. They can't really add and remove extra shifts like Ford and Chevy.

The point is not that they can't do something, it's that they don't. Obviously they shifted their plans for building seven M4's for every one M3 but they don't change their plans for how many shifts they will be running at which plants and how many total cars they expect to produce. Is BMWNA going to get twice as many M3's as their allocation called for just because demand is high? No. They will get what BMW Group decides they will get. The same goes for BMW Canada or any of the other regions around the world. If BMW AG decides to give additional cars to BMWNA, it means they're taking them away from other regions.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

bayoucity said:


> I appreciate your inputs. I know you love BMW AG and I love them as much as you do ( multiple BMW ownerships, BMWCCA, Welt, PCD... ) . However , BMW's assembly line is running on "just in time " /or "just in sequence (JIT/S) .
> 
> http://www.slideshare.net/SachinMat...stribution-sourcing-strategies-and-mechanisms


I'm not sure how this fits in with anything I said but... All I'm saying is that BMW Group plans in advance which plants will build which cars next year and they then allocate that production among their various markets around the word. Right now China is weak, so any cars built in Europe (or Spartanburg) that were previously allocated to China can be reallocated to other markets that are stronger but that doesn't mean BMW will make drastic changes to the previously determined production plans. All it means is that cars that were previously destined for China will be dumped on the US or Europe.



> It's a free market system, dealerships are allowed to do whatever they wish. But I do believe majority M car buyers prefer custom order. This isn't about buying Kia, I don't want to pick my $70-80k from the lot without my prefer built.


Absolutely! And that carries over to differences between individual dealerships, too. Some dealers are known for ordering M cars that are relatively well equipped while others seem to think that price is way to go and that if a customer wants more options on his car, he can always order it.



> Their plant is very flexible.


But BMW is not as flexible as their plants. Just because they can build as many M3's as they would like doesn't mean they will.



> We have gone thru this process together and dealers are "loving "ED on M3 , quite the contrary . If you have followed Furby's posting, you will know everyone loves taking apps, deposit and order. The problem is they don't tell you the lack of allocation hence no production number.


Okay, now we're talking about the dealer, not BMW. Big difference!

As much as many of you -- like most customers -- like to think of them as one entity, they're not. BMWNA tries as hard as they can to get dealers to comply with all of their requests but, as I'm sure we all know, not all dealers are the same when it comes to what we might describe as customer service. The same is true for individual "client advisors."

Yes, Furby's experience has been a textbook example of what's wrong with the way some client advisors (dealers ?) communicate with customers. That's not BMW. That's the individual client advisor or the individual dealership. Some salespeople will take your deposit and credit app and submit it and get a BMWFS approval and tell you your order is in the works and they should receive a production number shortly when they know they have half a dozen other customers already on their waiting list for that model. Or maybe the individual client advisor doesn't even know that, but the GSM certainly does.



> Your so called "placed order" sits in the order bank gets no chance of execution . First in doesn't mean first out. If they are nice enough, they will contact in a few weeks to give you some excuses.


Valid complaint... against the individual client advisor or dealership. Has nothing to do with BMW and I'm sure you can find client advisors who will treat you better than that. We have some of them as sponsors on this board.



> I encourage you to try out this process. It is time consuming and tiring at times due to planning travel arrangement simultaneously .


This is a very valid complaint. All of the dealership personnel should communicate clearly and truthfully with their customers and not give them misleading information about the status of their order. I am in full agreement with you and it's frustrating to read about some of the experiences of some members of the forum in dealing with their dealers. I can only hope that they're in the minority and that most customers receive better treatment than that.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

///M-Furby said:


> ...I am kinda livid about this.
> 
> BMW of the Mainline -> These guys came to a handshake deal with me. I got them a referral that actually let them sell a car (they acknowledged this in email). When it came time to close the deal - they raised the price by 1000. Original was 1400 over invoice
> BMW of Devon -> Took my deposit and credit information. Week later, refund
> Zimbrick BMW -> Took deposit and credit info. They said they were trying to get me allocation (for about 3 weeks). In the end refund (still waiting for check in the mail)


Never do a "handshake deal" with anybody. Make them put it in writing and make sure a manager signs it. Too many so-called salesmen (now called client advisors ) are willing to tell you anything to make a deal and then later tell you they made a mistake. All they really want to do is take you out of the market. I'm sure we've all come across salespeople like that. And this brings up one more point. I would never, ever let a dealership tell me they ordered my car -- especially for European Delivery -- and they're give me the numbers later or we'll sign the paperwork later. Or the most extreme case I have ever heard: have a nice vacation in Europe and we'll sign the lease contract when you get back because the office is backed up right now (actual experience of one forum member).

The salesman at the second place -- or his manager -- should have known what their situation was when they took your deposit. You didn't say what they told you a week later when they refunded it but it doesn't really matter. I'm not sure if they refunded it because the "deal" was unacceptable or because they knew they couldn't get an allocation or because management chose not to accept a European Delivery deal at that price. Regardless, they shouldn't have taken the deposit in the first place because they should have known all of that at the time.

The third place probably was trying to get an allocation for three weeks. It's hard to tell. I guess the most important thing to know was what they told you at the time they took your deposit. All in all it's still a sorry experience.



> I'm not sure what he did, but it was fast. He got me the order number in about 30 minutes.


He modified a car he already had in the works to meet your specs.

All in all you have had an awful time trying to order an M3.


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## turpiwa (Jun 13, 2005)

Awful is the new norm at the moment


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

turpiwa said:


> Awful is the new norm at the moment


It's worse than awful if you're planning a trip to Germany based on the information you're getting. I would want to wring somebody's neck!


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## need4speed (May 26, 2006)

turpiwa said:


> I have only done 2 and they were non allocation vehicles. Was smooth and easy - with an experienced CA.
> *Very different animal doing it with high demand, out of allocation vehicle *such as the M3.
> Really got to work for that discount


Moral of the story.
I like the idea of a data base listing which dealers have slots available, or/and a central data base showing which dealers have what stock. Of course the dealers wouldn't like that so it will never be done. N4S


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

need4speed said:


> Moral of the story.
> I like the idea of a data base listing which dealers have slots available, or/and a central data base showing which dealers have what stock. Of course the dealers wouldn't like that so it will never be done. N4S


You can already find out what's currently in stock at every dealer in the country using an online service like cars.com. As far as allocations and what's in the pipeline for each dealer, the dealers have that in their system.

If you wanted to search for 2016 M3's for instance, just search for that model and filter the results by nearest to your location. That way you will get individual dealers listed based on how close they are to your location and all of their M3's will be listed one behind the other and in price order (either up or down, your choice). You could even restrict it to just one particular color combination and pull the results. Obviously a dealer who has only one M3 in stock may not be as willing to negotiate price as one who has 17 in stock.

Here's how that can become very helpful if you're one who is interested in the best price. Assuming it's a car like the M4, which is not as scarce as the M3 right now, and assuming you want an Alpine White one with black interior. Filter the results but this time what you're really interested in is which dealer has too many M4's in that particular color combination. For instance, we did this a few months back and one dealer had a total of 21 M4's in stock but 17 of them were Alpine White. Now that's a dealer who might want to give you a very good price on an Alpine White one.


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## ///M-Furby (Mar 2, 2009)

Ninong said:


> If I were in the market for a European Delivery of an M3 right now, I would deal ONLY with someone I trusted would give me straight answers. In other words, price would not be my primary concern. I may call a dozen or more dealers, if necessary, "shopping" for the best allocation. Only after that part was finished would I get into negotiating the price based on real world market conditions. In fact, in a situation like that, it's not a real negotiating process. You simply ask the price and they give it to you. You accept it or not. It's up to you. They can always sell it to somebody else for the same asking price or better.
> 
> Just remember that anybody (meaning any client advisor) can give you a "good price" on something they don't have.


The problem with that is the price difference from invoice to msrp. One price i am willing to pay, the other i am not. My money is greater than their allocation



dkreidel said:


> Yes, ED is not for everyone. Many vagaries and unexpected events occur can occur prior to, during and post ED. After 17 ED's (and maybe a dozen more with friends) I've learned you can't control everything on an ED . If the uncertainty is too great, off-the-lot domestic delivery is infinitely more buttoned down; ordering a custom build slightly less so.
> 
> ED conversations with the dealer should begin with "Do you have an allocation or a car currently scheduled that can be converted from DD to ED?" Caveat Emptor.


i agree with the conversation point. Bmw likes ED, thats why they have it. If they want customers to use it, then they need to make it EZ



need4speed said:


> Moral of the story.
> I like the idea of a data base listing which dealers have slots available, or/and a central data base showing which dealers have what stock. Of course the dealers wouldn't like that so it will never be done. N4S


I dont know. Dealers with slots are getting free advertisement


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

///M-Furby said:


> The problem with that is the price difference from invoice to msrp. One price i am willing to pay, the other i am not. My money is greater than their allocation


My only point can be summed up in two words: _Caveat emptor._

You're buying a car from a dealer. He buys it from BMW. He's the one who has to deal with BMW to get a car that he can sell you. Sometimes the salesperson is overly optimistic in his chances of getting the car you want. Maybe BMW won't sell him what you want soon enough to meet your schedule? That's what you may have experienced, and that's putting the best possible excuse on what happened. We will just assume that the first dealership that told you it was a done deal and then backed out weeks later really did think they could get it done and didn't mean to mislead you the way they did.

I'm not sure how your comment about your money being greater than their allocation applies? How does your money affect the dealer's allocation? It doesn't. Don't forget that there were quite a few buyers around the world who placed orders with BMW dealers for the i8 at prices tens of thousands of dollars over MSRP but it didn't get them their cars any sooner. Many of them had to wait more than six months for an allocation. Of course, that model is not eligible for European Delivery but it's still the same problem. They wanted one. They were willing to pay a lot more than MSRP but they still couldn't get one without waiting for their dealer to get an allocation for one first.

Maybe that's how so many customers actually did pay $50,000 to $100,000 over MSRP for a new i8? Remember the thread on this board by a customer asking for help in locating an available i8 for something less than that? He bragged about his great fortune in getting one out of stock at a dealer he found somewhere in the US who was willing to let him buy it for only $30,000 over MSRP.

The most recent model that was somewhat similar to the i8, would be the new Z3 when it first came out. They all sold above MSRP for the first six months or so. Most dealers presold their first 8 months of allocation. The fact that those customers were willing to pay more than MSRP and were willing to place large deposits to secure their place on the dealer's waiting list didn't help them get an allocation sooner. Their money wasn't greater than the allocation at all.

The bottom line is that you're buying a car from a dealer (unless it's a Tesla in certain states), he's buying it from BMW and selling it to you. The fact that you're picking it up in Munich doesn't change that one bit.


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