# Mercedes Cautions it Could Be Target for Diesel Penalties and Recalls



## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/201...d-be-target-for-diesel-penalties-and-recalls/


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

And Peugeot elsewhere.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Isnt this just basically a heads up to authorities that they did some investigating and found they have some similar software tweaks? What motivation could they possibly have to come out and say this?


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

CY[their]A


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## Rusty34 (Feb 3, 2017)

Doug Huffman said:


> CY[their]A


Implicated VW execs are currently doing hard time. Daimler may be trying to play the get out of jail free card.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

How so? If they did it they still did it whether they admit to it ahead of time or not. Unless theyre planning to get ahead of it by pointing fingers at fall guys


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## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

“In light of the ongoing governmental information requests, inquiries and investigations, and our own internal investigation, it cannot be ruled out that the authorities might reach the conclusion that Mercedes-Benz diesel vehicles have similar functionalities,” Daimler said in its newly released quarterly report.

Most likely they needed to do this as a public company. They probably know at this stage that the penalties will be more than likely and needed to revel this information to investors.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

It was never clear how much a non-compliant TDI actually polluted compared to other new and used cars. It also isn't clear how much certain systems are programmed to protect the engine during warm-up that would otherwise cause more pollution. Finally, if you follow wxman's posts, its not clear that any of this hullabaloo makes any significant difference in the total environmental picture, other than supporting administrative EPA and attorney incomes while costing the economy big time.

My $.02 and wish for more real data....

PL


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

Pierre Louis said:


> It was never clear how much a non-compliant TDI actually polluted compared to other new and used cars.
> 
> My $.02 and wish for more real data....
> 
> PL


"Researchers found that under real-world driving conditions the Jetta exceeded US emissions limits by a factor of 15 to 35 while the Passat exceeded the limit by a factor of 5 to 20."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#US_testing_conducted


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

montr said:


> "Researchers found that under real-world driving conditions the Jetta exceeded US emissions limits by a factor of 15 to 35 while the Passat exceeded the limit by a factor of 5 to 20."
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal#US_testing_conducted


Thanks, but the Wikipedia article is just a rehash of what has been on these boards for the past 2+ years. I should have been more clear - only NOx is talked about in any diesel-gate studies, not CO, CO2, HC, particulates etc.

If you read my post, there is no distinction between just NOx - the main culprit - and no comparison of anything else in the "numbers" which curiously are not discussed except in wxman's posts.

As a peer reviewer for a national medical journal, I would not have passed such lack of data, BTW, including the study on health consequences (which I've mentioned in other posts as biased against diesel) since even Wikipedia realizes their article needs the input of a health scientist expert.

Cheers.

PL


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

Another point which needs to be considered.

If manufacturers get too aggressive with NOx reduction in diesel engine exhaust, it becomes increasingly likely that there will be "ammonia slip" expelled in the exhaust since ammonia (NH3) is actually the reductant formed from urea injection and reduces NOx to N2 + H2O.

According to a well-respected damage assessment model ("APEEP", now "AP2"), marginal (additional) emissions of NH3 in major cities are generally far more damaging to human health and the environment than marginal emissions of NOx (>100 times in some cases).



















Source: https://sites.google.com/site/nickmullershomepage/home

Vehicle exhaust has been shown to be the major source of NH3 in urban locations (currently mostly from modern gasoline cars; their three-way catalysts over-reduce NOx to NH3). NH3 emissions currently aren't regulated, but that doesn't mean that they are innocuous.


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

PL - according to EPA (https://permanent.access.gpo.gov/gpo55409/420f08024.pdf ; table on page 4), the average gasoline car on U.S. roads in 2008 had the following emission profile (compared to the ICCT/WVU results for the "multi-state" test):

Emission.......................Average Gasser in 2008............................Passat TDI In-Use ("multi-state")
THC..........................................1.077..........................................................0.01
NOx..........................................0.693..........................................................0.42
CO............................................9.400..........................................................0.03
PM...........................................0.0044........................................................0.0002

Of course, most vehicles on the road in 2008 were older than the 2008 model year cars, but notice that even the NOx emissions are higher than the Passat TDI in the WVU "real-world" testing.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Pierre Louis said:


> ... its not clear that any of this hullabaloo makes any significant difference in the total environmental picture, other than supporting administrative EPA and attorney incomes while costing the economy big time.
> 
> My $.02 and wish for more real data....
> 
> PL


There's a trump rally calling your name.....


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

ard said:


> There's a trump rally calling your name.....


Sorry, poor performance by the EPA and CARB has nothing to do with Trumpian blather.


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## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN1852I4

Daimler drops bid to win approval to sell U.S. 2017 Mercedes diesels


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