# BMW will discontinue diesels in the US for 2019



## kanar200 (Feb 15, 2011)

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/bmw-diesels-discontinued-us-2019/


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

This is a very predictable outcome. U.S. customers became cognizant of BMW of NA's fakery and prevarication with diesel powered cars and SAVs sold in this market (e.g. labeling a G30 530d as a 540d), sales of these vehicles declined precipitously, and BMW of NA finally threw in the towel.

Game over!


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Well that royally scuks. 

Since whatever vehicles I own absolutely MUST be diesel powered due to my driving 1k miles/week, BMW's business decision to stop offering diesels in the USA simply means I won't be returning to BMW as a customer. I am a lot less brand loyal than I used to be because whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered. Gassers are not an option at all, including hybrids. Diesel fits my particular use case better than anything else for my driving 1k miles/week.

My 2014 *535d *and 2012 *X5 35d* are long term keepers and this news means I will be keeping them for as long as possible. My *535d *is only at 111k miles and climbing. My *X5 35d* is only at 199k miles and climbing fast. It is still way too early to tell how much longer they will last. :thumbup:

I am getting the itch for a truck again so if I someday add another diesel vehicle to my all-diesel fleet, it likely will be a diesel pickup truck. The diesel pickup truck market in the USA does not appear to be threatened at all and is expanding. I used to own a 2008 Ford F-350 SuperDuty pickup truck with the 6.4L PowerStroke Diesel. While I love my BMW diesels and they are long term keepers, I miss the truck and wish I had kept it. At the time it was hard to justify owning 3 vehicles when I'm the only driver of them. BMW's news now makes the justification easier. Given that whatever vehicles I own and drive absolutely must be diesel powered, I probably will have another diesel pickup truck again someday.

I am not happy  about this news but not surprised. Time for me to start hoarding diesel cars so I will never have to worry about owning a gasser ever again.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

The 2018 540dx is essentially out of production for the US already. I would opt for an indirect injection manual Honda if I was in the market. Sigh.

PL


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

n1das said:


> Well that royally scuks.
> 
> Since whatever vehicles I own absolutely MUST be diesel powered due to my driving 1k miles/week, BMW's business decision to stop offering diesels in the USA simply means I won't be returning to BMW as a customer. I am a lot less brand loyal than I used to be because whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered. Gassers are not an option at all, including hybrids. Diesel fits my particular use case better than anything else for my driving 1k miles/week.
> 
> ...


The diesel truck market has grown since the days of your 6.4L.

On top of their big diesels in their HD trucks, all three will have 3.0L diesel in their half ton trucks by 2019. The Ram 1500 has a 3.0L 240hp/420lb-ft V6 VM Motori engine mated with a ZF 8 speed. The F150 will have a 3.0L 250 hp/ 440 diesel V6 engine that they developed for Land Rover (when it was owned by Ford) mated to a 10 speed. And the GM 1500's will have a 3.0L I6 built in house mated to a 10 speed. Power figures are not out yet, but they will probably be inline with the others. Nissan Titan XD also has a 5.0L 310hp/555 lb-ft V8 Cummins in their XD.

In the midsize truck market, GM has a 2.7L 181hp/369lb-ft I4 available in their Colorado/Canyon trucks. It is also available in the sweet off road ZR2 package. Then their is the Jeep Wrangler truck coming out soon that will probably have the same 3.0L engine available in the Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee.


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

Then I will discontinue buying BMWs.


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## MnRiverman (Feb 21, 2010)

X2


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## jck128 (Aug 11, 2018)

alacey said:


> The diesel truck market has grown since the days of your 6.4L.
> 
> On top of their big diesels in their HD trucks, all three will have 3.0L diesel in their half ton trucks by 2019. The Ram 1500 has a 3.0L 240hp/420lb-ft V6 VM Motori engine mated with a ZF 8 speed. The F150 will have a 3.0L 250 hp/ 440 diesel V6 engine that they developed for Land Rover (when it was owned by Ford) mated to a 10 speed. And the GM 1500's will have a 3.0L I6 built in house mated to a 10 speed. Power figures are not out yet, but they will probably be inline with the others. Nissan Titan XD also has a 5.0L 310hp/555 lb-ft V8 Cummins in their XD.
> 
> In the midsize truck market, GM has a 2.7L 181hp/369lb-ft I4 available in their Colorado/Canyon trucks. It is also available in the sweet off road ZR2 package. Then their is the Jeep Wrangler truck coming out soon that will probably have the same 3.0L engine available in the Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee.


+1


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

The writing was on the wall when they discontinued the 540d after it was offered for sale for just a few months. 

While my current X5d was supposed to be a ten year car, after more than five years with the same daily driver and the miles getting higher than any daily driver I've had in a couple of decades, I was getting the new car itch and played with the new X5 configurator. I really like the interior and some of the safety tech so was hoping a diesel option would be offered. Like many who have a diesel, I would much prefer a diesel engine for an SUV due to fuel consumption, torque, towing ability. The article says BMW is putting its eggs in the plug in hybrid basket but plug in hybrid only really makes sense for frequent short drives with stop and go traffic, a driver profile that is almost the opposite of where a diesel shines.

New car itch gone. Delaying writing an $80k check is better for my personal financial goals anyway. Sticking to ten year plan, will be making sure the E70 keeps getting all the TLC it needs, and hopefully my swerving skills remain good enough that it does not get banged up over the next 4 to 5 years. 

Remember those old Mercedes Benz diesels from the early to mid 80's that everyone seemed to love when the bio diesel craze hit? Maybe that will be the future of our cars and they will be the must have version on the beater BMW market netting us an extra $500 when we sell. Haha!


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Sorry about the dup. Site acting funky tonight.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

gkr778 said:


> Game over!


What a foolish comment.It was VW and EnviroWeenies who killed diesel here.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

Enthusiast 456 said:


> Then I will discontinue buying BMWs.


Just bought my third BMW....and it's absolutely my last.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

listerone said:


> It was VW and EnviroWeenies who killed diesel here.


Diesel engines are still offered on U.S. market cars and light trucks from GM, Ford, FCA, Nissan, Jaguar-Land Rover, and possibly Mazda if the CX-5 diesel materializes for MY 2019.

So "VW and EnviroWeenies" isn't the reason. BMW of NA demonstrated contempt for its customers, and customers responded in kind. Good riddance to fake diesel BMWs.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

gkr778 said:


> Diesel engines are still offered on U.S. market cars and light trucks from GM, Ford, FCA, Nissan, Jaguar-Land Rover, and possibly Mazda if the CX-5 diesel materializes for MY 2019.
> 
> So "VW and EnviroWeenies" isn't the reason. BMW of NA demonstrated contempt for its customers, and customers responded in kind. Good riddance to fake diesel BMWs.


The "cars' in your 'cars and light trucks" statement is fake news.

GM, Ford, FCA, and Nissan only offer diesels in trucks, none of them cars and not all of them offer diesel light trucks.

Jaguar-Land Rover, I'll give you, although a friend of mine who tried to get an F-Pace diesel a year ago could not get one off the lot nor special order one. She ended up with a Macan. Yes, the Macan is gas powered, but I talked her out of the Jag.

Mazda has been saying they have a diesel coming since 2013. Marketing dept must be getting just as tired as I am tired of reading about it.

As to fake BMW diesels, I've been enjoying my BMW M57 with 50% more horsepower and more than twice the torque as the engine in your not fake BMW for over five years. Don't let me go lower and bring up some of the other 12 BMW's I've gone through.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

alacey said:


> The diesel truck market has grown since the days of your 6.4L.
> 
> On top of their big diesels in their HD trucks, all three will have 3.0L diesel in their half ton trucks by 2019. The Ram 1500 has a 3.0L 240hp/420lb-ft V6 VM Motori engine mated with a ZF 8 speed. The F150 will have a 3.0L 250 hp/ 440 diesel V6 engine that they developed for Land Rover (when it was owned by Ford) mated to a 10 speed. And the GM 1500's will have a 3.0L I6 built in house mated to a 10 speed. Power figures are not out yet, but they will probably be inline with the others. Nissan Titan XD also has a 5.0L 310hp/555 lb-ft V8 Cummins in their XD.
> 
> In the midsize truck market, GM has a 2.7L 181hp/369lb-ft I4 available in their Colorado/Canyon trucks. It is also available in the sweet off road ZR2 package. Then their is the Jeep Wrangler truck coming out soon that will probably have the same 3.0L engine available in the Ram 1500 and Jeep Grand Cherokee.


Pick-ups and SUV's are subject to less stringent emission requirements. Getting a diesel to pass U.S. passenger car emissions gets harder every time the requirements get incremented up. Also, diesels that just putt around in urban environments on short trips have a lot of warranty claims for their emission systems. That's likely the big reason that M-B doesn't offer a diesel engine in their Metris vans in the U.S.


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

FredoinSF said:


> The "cars' in your 'cars and light trucks" statement is fake news.
> 
> GM, Ford, FCA, and Nissan only offer diesels in trucks, none of them cars and not all of them offer diesel light trucks.
> 
> ...


GM offers a diesel cruze both in hatchback and sedan with a manual tranny if desired. They also offer a diesel Equinox SUV. 1.6L which according to reviews moves the cruze fairly nicely. I pumped diesel beside one a couple of weeks ago.

The CX5 diesel now has EPA MPG ratings. 28/31 for the FWD and 27/30 for AWD. Seems rather paltry and not much of an improvement over the gas versions, 3 mpg for city improvement. Not sure why they bothered. The equinox gets 39 mpg highway,, but don't expect to get thrown back in your seat with a 1.6 liter and about 135 HP in that SUV, although it will have good torque.


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## dce (Nov 6, 2017)

That is sad because my 2018 540d is a great car. I plan to take care of it and hope it lasts as long as me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

FredoinSF said:


> The "cars' in your 'cars and light trucks" statement is fake news.
> 
> GM, Ford, FCA, and Nissan only offer diesels in trucks, none of them cars and not all of them offer diesel light trucks.


This is false. GM has had a diesel Chevrolet Cruze in their line up for a few years now.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

Autoputzer said:


> Pick-ups and SUV's are subject to less stringent emission requirements. Getting a diesel to pass U.S. passenger car emissions gets harder every time the requirements get incremented up. Also, diesels that just putt around in urban environments on short trips have a lot of warranty claims for their emission systems. That's likely the big reason that M-B doesn't offer a diesel engine in their Metris vans in the U.S.


I don't believe light duty Class 1-3 trucks have any less emissions standards than class 1 cars. I believe with the recent standards they all have to go through the same dyno chassis certification and achieve the same gram per horsepower per hour of NOX, PM, and other emissions. They do have different CAFE standards though, and trucks without beds(cab and chassis) have pass a engine dyno certification rather than a chassis dyno certification since it is an incomplete vehicle.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

glangford said:


> GM offers a diesel cruze both in hatchback and sedan with a manual tranny if desired. They also offer a diesel Equinox SUV. 1.6L which according to reviews moves the cruze fairly nicely. I pumped diesel beside one a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> The CX5 diesel now has EPA MPG ratings. 28/31 for the FWD and 27/30 for AWD. Seems rather paltry and not much of an improvement over the gas versions, 3 mpg for city improvement. Not sure why they bothered. The equinox gets 39 mpg highway,, but don't expect to get thrown back in your seat with a 1.6 liter and about 135 HP in that SUV, although it will have good torque.


EDIT: We forgot a few other manufacturers offering or soon will offer diesel cars in the USA: Jaguar, Land Rover, Hyundai.

I welcome diesel vehicles from any and all manufacturers. I'm not brand loyal like I used to be because whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered. BMW quitting diesels for the USA market means I quit BMW as a customer.

I'm not in the market for another vehicle right now but I might take a more serious look at a diesel Equinox SUV. It might also be offered with 3 pedals (IIRC). The Buick Envision is the Buick version. The Opel 1.6L engine in the Cruze and Equinox supposedly has been in Europe for several years already and has a good reputation. I might also take a look at the Cruze. 55 MPG is real nice for my 100 mile/day highway commute. The only thing that would turn me away from the Cruze is what it is for a car. GM needs to get all of the "car" stuff right to get me seriously interested in a Diesel Cruze. The Cruze IIRC will also have a 3 pedal option.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

gkr778 said:


> BMW of NA demonstrated contempt for its customers, and customers responded in kind. Good riddance to fake diesel BMWs.


Have you ever owned a diesel? More specifically,have you ever owned a BMW diesel?


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

n1das said:


> EDIT: We forgot a few other manufacturers offering or soon will offer diesel cars in the USA: Jaguar, Land Rover, Hyundai.
> 
> I welcome diesel vehicles from any and all manufacturers. I'm not brand loyal like I used to be because whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered. BMW quitting diesels for the USA market means I quit BMW as a customer.
> 
> I'm not in the market for another vehicle right now but I might take a more serious look at a diesel Equinox SUV. It might also be offered with 3 pedals (IIRC). The Buick Envision is the Buick version. The Opel 1.6L engine in the Cruze and Equinox supposedly has been in Europe for several years already and has a good reputation. I might also take a look at the Cruze. 55 MPG is real nice for my 100 mile/day highway commute. The only thing that would turn me away from the Cruze is what it is for a car. GM needs to get all of the "car" stuff right to get me seriously interested in a Diesel Cruze. The Cruze IIRC will also have a 3 pedal option.


I don't have that brand loyalty either and will always want to have a diesel. I have had a couple of cruzes as rentals on business travel. They appeared to be competent driving cars in my driving around Houston. If the diesel version has the proper sound deading it could be a nice cruiser. Apparently reviews of it were favorable. Cruze comes in a 9 speed auto and manual, the manual getting a 54 mpg hgwy rating. The equinox is only a 6 speed auto, apparently the 9 speed is not suited to the extra weight.

I built a cruze hatchback on their website. Loaded it came to just shy of 29K.


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## n00bkiller944 (May 21, 2018)

As much as I don't want a chevy cruze I would love a diesel matched with a third pedal.


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

I had a coworker with a diesel Cruze and she got 50+ mpg but the thing was in for warranty work pretty often too as stupid stuff kept breaking. Hopefully the quality has improved since that car was introduced a few years ago.


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## Proconsul (Aug 2, 2015)

The problem isn't BMW - they made a responsible corporate decision to protect themselves from a 20 billion dollar fine for incorrectly labeling their DEF tanks, or running software that allowed the engine to operate, deceptively giving consumers better mileage from diesel fuel, or just existing as, well, a diesel. Or being sucked into some future dieselgate vortex for some yet unforeseen violation of some yet-to-be written US regulatory code. For potentially marginal gain in sales in a fringe market. And yes, I owned an X5d that I loved to drive. But diesel passenger autos is a dead duck conversation in the US. Deal with it. If you refuse to ever drive a gasoline powered vehicle, suggest you stock up on existing inventory - they last forever, or until regulatory restrictions prevent you from driving those. Or switch, as some have noted, to a diesel truck - they will likely be around for the foreseeable future, at least commercially. Or move to the EU, where diesel currently represents about 60 percent of existing passenger powerplants, but will likely be more problematic as months go by, until the EU digs itself out of its CO2 reduction dillema, when the hammer will probably seriously fall. Or further East yet, where diesel will happily putter along through most of our lifetimes. Get used to EV (which is SO much more environmentally sensitive, what with the mining of fossil coal and lithium), or increasingly smaller gasoline engine variants. An era has passed folks; you are on the edge of it....


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

listerone said:


> Have you ever owned a diesel? More specifically,have you ever owned a BMW diesel?


No and No. Never assented to BMW of NA ripping off U.S. customers with its marketing of mislabeled diesel powered vehicles.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

Never owned a diesel or a BMW diesel yet you consider them fake diesels?!?! HUH


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

Apparently, BMW has not made a final decision for the X5 diesel yet.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

n1das said:


> EDIT: We forgot a few other manufacturers offering or soon will offer diesel cars in the USA: Jaguar, Land Rover, Hyundai.
> 
> I welcome diesel vehicles from any and all manufacturers. I'm not brand loyal like I used to be because whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered. BMW quitting diesels for the USA market means I quit BMW as a customer.
> 
> I'm not in the market for another vehicle right now but I might take a more serious look at a diesel Equinox SUV. It might also be offered with 3 pedals (IIRC). The Buick Envision is the Buick version. The Opel 1.6L engine in the Cruze and Equinox supposedly has been in Europe for several years already and has a good reputation. I might also take a look at the Cruze. 55 MPG is real nice for my 100 mile/day highway commute. The only thing that would turn me away from the Cruze is what it is for a car. GM needs to get all of the "car" stuff right to get me seriously interested in a Diesel Cruze. The Cruze IIRC will also have a 3 pedal option.


Opel?
Opel diesel was always associated with disaster! At 32f there was higher chance you will win lottery then start Opel diesel. But they were faster as they aged since body would rust so much that it will shed substantial weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

Proconsul said:


> The problem isn't BMW - they made a responsible corporate decision to protect themselves from a 20 billion dollar fine for incorrectly labeling their DEF tanks, or running software that allowed the engine to operate, deceptively giving consumers better mileage from diesel fuel, or just existing as, well, a diesel. Or being sucked into some future dieselgate vortex for some yet unforeseen violation of some yet-to-be written US regulatory code. For potentially marginal gain in sales in a fringe market. And yes, I owned an X5d that I loved to drive. But diesel passenger autos is a dead duck conversation in the US. Deal with it. If you refuse to ever drive a gasoline powered vehicle, suggest you stock up on existing inventory - they last forever, or until regulatory restrictions prevent you from driving those. Or switch, as some have noted, to a diesel truck - they will likely be around for the foreseeable future, at least commercially. Or move to the EU, where diesel currently represents about 60 percent of existing passenger powerplants, but will likely be more problematic as months go by, until the EU digs itself out of its CO2 reduction dillema, when the hammer will probably seriously fall. Or further East yet, where diesel will happily putter along through most of our lifetimes. Get used to EV (which is SO much more environmentally sensitive, what with the mining of fossil coal and lithium), or increasingly smaller gasoline engine variants. An era has passed folks; you are on the edge of it....


You make valid points. IF (and that is a big if) they made a 3-Series that had the same range and oomph that the diesel has, I might be ok with that.

But look at the 330e - it can go (iirc) 300 miles on a tank. Whooptie-do. My diesel easily goes over 600 miles on a tank. Also, you cannot add the torque of the electric motor to that of the gas engine to get total (delivered) torque - doesn't work that way. Plus you are dragging around that heavy battery pack all the time.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Two power plants in the hybrid instead of just one.

I've driven a 530e as a loaner car for a day while my 535d was at my dealer (Tulley BMW in Nashua NH) being serviced. The 530e was overall gutless compared to my 535d. It had no low end grunt like the 535d has due to no low end torque. The engine always needed to rev high to try to find some torque whenever I got on the power. I also found it gutless off the line due to no low end torque. To get the advertised MPG numbers with the 530e would require it to be driven like a Prius. The mileage a Toyota Prius gets is laughable considering what a penalty box the car is to drive.

I put the 530e through a mix of city and highway driving along the same routes where I do the same in my 535d. Needless to say I was underwhelmed by the 530e and was glad to get back into my 535d at end of the day. The 535d drives 100% better overall due to the diesel's torque characteristics. The diesel's torque is addictive and the better fuel economy under real world driving conditions compared to the gassers comes as a bonus.

I have received a few advertisements in the mail from BMW trying to entice me into "upgrading" by trading my 535d in for a 2018 530e. Uh...NO. A 530e is not an upgrade at all and represents a significant downgrade from my 535d. Not going to happen.

It doesn't matter to me at all that the USA spec 535d is a 530d in Europe. I'm not swayed by BMW's marketing in the USA. I know what I like for a reason.

I have driven several different BMWs as loaner cars but I have never owned a gasoline BMW...and won't.





Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

I am diesel faithful, not brand faithful. I haven***8217;t owned an American brand for a long time. 

My wife is almost 80, I***8217;m celebrating my Seventieth in Yosemite NP, so I think I***8217;ll keep my X5d on the road while I can afford to drive it and enjoy it. When I can***8217;t, then I***8217;ll get a Dove or Hoveround electric wheelchair.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

alacey said:


> Never owned a diesel or a BMW diesel yet you consider them fake diesels?!?! HUH


Do you really think a diesel powered U.S. market BMW F30 provides "328" caliber performance without an aftermarket tune?

328d moniker is FAKE FAKE FAKE. Shame on BMW of NA!


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Looks like I overlooked the diesel cruze and equinox. My bad. 

This thread kind of went to hell thanks to a non diesel owner. Either way, I'm sad there won't be any more new BMW diesels in the US. I have thoroughly enjoyed the X5d and would buy a new one in a heart beat if I needed to replace the current one.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

gkr778 said:


> Do you really think a diesel powered U.S. market BMW F30 provides "328" caliber performance without an aftermarket tune?
> 
> 328d moniker is FAKE FAKE FAKE. Shame on BMW of NA!


How does that make it a fake diesel versus other diesels?


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## Cap'n Hook (Apr 8, 2016)

n1das said:


> I am not happy  about this news but not surprised. Time for me to start hoarding diesel cars so I will never have to worry about owning a gasser ever again.


I'll sell you my '12 X5 35d with 96K miles for $16,500, seriously. I'm looking to move my wife into a Macan.
'12 X5 35d for sale on Bimmerfest here.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

alacey said:


> How does that make it a fake diesel versus other diesels?


ALERT: Our President has graciously redefined the word "fake" which no longer means "untrue or false." "Fake" now means "anything I don't like, for whatever reason." (And before anybody jumps all over me, he's said so himself.)

Do not be confused here. You and I, @alacey, have always meant "fake" with the old-now-outdated meaning, by which the statements you question fail the test of reason. But the meaning used by the person you quoted is the new meaning, by which his statement is clearly true. He doesn't like BMW diesels for whatever reasons he has chosen. ERGO they are "fake" by the new definition of the word.

EDIT: please note that this post is not intended to be political in nature. It is intended strictly as a point of clarification with regard to the usage and definition of a word that has recently changed in an effort to avoid unnecessary strife.


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Cap'n Hook said:


> I'll sell you my '12 X5 35d with 96K miles for $16,500, seriously. I'm looking to move my wife into a Macan.
> '12 X5 35d for sale on Bimmerfest here.


Nice colors and options. Should go fast.

Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest mobile app


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## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

Does this mean my two X5 diesels will become collectors items 10 years from now when I am ready to sell them?

Seriously though, I think the new X5 coming out next year will be a great drivers SUV, even with gasoline-only engines. There's a chance BMW will keep diesel in their line-up, but frankly I don't blame them if they want to get out of diesel powered vehicles. Too many headaches with the emission regulations and annual re-certifications. Add lowered customer demand and the decision to scrap diesel engines becomes easy.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

finnbmw said:


> Does this mean my two X5 diesels will become collectors items 10 years from now when I am ready to sell them?
> 
> Seriously though, I think the new X5 coming out next year will be a great drivers SUV, even with gasoline-only engines. There's a chance BMW will keep diesel in their line-up, but frankly I don't blame them if they want to get out of diesel powered vehicles. Too many headaches with the emission regulations and annual re-certifications. Add lowered customer demand and the decision to scrap diesel engines becomes easy.


Not collectors items, but sure to hold their value by demand.

All in all, I'm sad they are going away, but much happier that we got them at all. Probably eventually try to get a loaded F15 x5d for the long haul after a couple more years of depreciation.

There was an article in a local paper yesterday about a $500,000,000 investment in electric city buses to combat the "deadly" diesel exhaust. While I do believe there is a real place for electric buses innercity, it is not a good fit for the longer metro routes. Really sad they resort to this type of reporting.


paper said:


> "Diesel vehicles are a large contributor to carbon emissions, and freight traffic, school buses and other diesel-based industries also emit deadly exhaust in Portland's air."
> " and its newer buses are equipped with better safeguards for spewing particulars.":tsk:


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

US power distribution infrastructure - the ***8216;grid***8217; - will not support another large load class without a large investment in increased capacity.

As a microscopic example; on my Island, mere installation of tankless hot water heaters is discouraged for overloading and potentially unbalancing our distribution system that was built in the Fifties. 

Recently the seven mile long underwater power cable failed. It has been patched, and the replacement is being built to the original specification, not to increased capacity.

To increase the cable capacity requires also, commits to, increasing the distribution substations***8217; capacity on the mainland and on the Island. 

Being an Island, we have also diesel-generator back-up with stringent air quality permitting requirements. DG capacity would have to be increased and their permits.

Anecdotally, a visitor brought his ICE-electric hybrid to the Island without its charging cable, planning to charge with the Internal Combustion Engine generator. Temperatures were sub-zero and the starting battery was inadequate to start the ICE. The Island handymen had to cobble together an extension cord to charge the batteries.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

alacey said:


> How does that make it a fake diesel versus other diesels?


As mentioned previously, the model label "328d" for U.S. market F30 diesel is fake. This vehicle uses a 180 hp (135 kW) N47 engine. As such, the correct label is 320d.

BMW of NA gazumped U.S. customers by deliberately mislabeling their diesel powered cars in recent years. The fake labels implied greater performance than what customers actually obtained (and what they paid for). This is applicable not only to F30, but nearly all diesel powered U.S. market BMW automobiles of recent vintage:


FAKE G30 540d = 530d
FAKE F10 535d = 530d
FAKE F02 740Ld = 730Ld
FAKE F15 xDrive35d = xDrive30d
FAKE F25 xDrive28d = xDrive20d


U.S. market E90 335d and E70 xDrive35d were notable exceptions, exuding performance levels commensurate with their respective labels, even if they fell slightly short of the European versions.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

gkr778 said:


> As mentioned previously, the model label "328d" for U.S. market F30 diesel is fake. This vehicle uses a 180 hp (135 kW) N47 engine. As such, the correct label is 320d.
> 
> BMW of NA gazumped U.S. customers by deliberately mislabeling their diesel powered cars in recent years. The fake labels implied greater performance than what customers actually obtained (and what they paid for). This is applicable not only to F30, but nearly all diesel powered U.S. market BMW automobiles of recent vintage:
> 
> ...


US 328d is higher performance than Euro 320d. :thumbup: But yes, very similar to a 320d with some upgraded parts. BMW has long given a bigger model number on forced induction cars than what they really are, gasoline and diesel. Not sure why you feel like you've been so wronged. Maybe you can start a class action suit and get nothing out of that either.


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## FaRKle! (Jun 18, 2016)

gkr778 said:


> As mentioned previously, the model label "328d" for U.S. market F30 diesel is fake. This vehicle uses a 180 hp (135 kW) N47 engine. As such, the correct label is 320d.
> 
> BMW of NA gazumped U.S. customers by deliberately mislabeling their diesel powered cars in recent years. The fake labels implied greater performance than what customers actually obtained (and what they paid for). This is applicable not only to F30, but nearly all diesel powered U.S. market BMW automobiles of recent vintage:
> 
> ...


Does that mean the new US Z4 M40i will be "FAKE Z4 M40i" because the Euro version will have ~40hp less? Guess they should've labelled the US version M45i...


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

gkr778 said:


> As mentioned previously, the model label "328d" for U.S. market F30 diesel is fake. This vehicle uses a 180 hp (135 kW) N47 engine. As such, the correct label is 320d.
> 
> BMW of NA gazumped U.S. customers by deliberately mislabeling their diesel powered cars in recent years. The fake labels implied greater performance than what customers actually obtained (and what they paid for). This is applicable not only to F30, but nearly all diesel powered U.S. market BMW automobiles of recent vintage:
> 
> ...


Your subjective view on BMW's numbering systems is not what I was asking and quit frankly I probably care more about the lint in my pocket than it.

Again, you initially said it was a fake diesel, not a fake (and meaningless) badge number. How is the N47 diesel in 328d fake diesel versus other diesels? Does it not use diesel fuel? Does it not use compression ignition?


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

BMW has always been a bit funny about the 2nd/3rd digit in the model designations. Didn't the 528e and 325e have the same 2.7L engine?


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

jck66 said:


> BMW has always been a bit funny about the 2nd/3rd digit in the model designations. Didn't the 528e and 325e have the same 2.7L engine?


Yes, and different than 325i and 325. 
----
745i was a 3.5L, 340i/540i/740i were/are a 4.0 or a 4.4 or a 3.0, 335i/535i is a 3.0. 328i M sport must really get under your skin, that 2.0 liter M car wannabe.


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## Milam (Jun 27, 2017)

I have an X5 Diesel.
Love it.

Was hoping to step up to a 2019 X5 Diesel with ACC.
Now, not sure what I will do.

Love the Diesel.
Hopefully they will keep an X5 Diesel in the mix.


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## RED-d (Jul 24, 2017)

gkr778 said:


> No and No. Never assented to BMW of NA ripping off U.S. customers with its marketing of mislabeled diesel powered vehicles.


Why are you even on this thread? If someone was taking away your favorite lollipop I'm sure you wouldn't want someone telling you the flavor you prefer sucked!


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

RED-d said:


> Why are you even on this thread? If someone was taking away your favorite lollipop I'm sure you wouldn't want someone telling you the flavor you prefer sucked!


Why not?


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

dzlbimmer said:


> Maybe you can start a class action suit and get nothing out of that either.


Thanks for the suggestion, but it's the folks who bought a U.S. market diesel powered BMW of recent vintage that should consider a class action suit. They are the ones that BMW of NA ripped off.


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

If we didn't love our diesels, we would not be so disappointed that they are being discontinued! I certainly don't feel 'cheated' at all with my car - in fact I love it.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Enthusiast 456 said:


> If we didn't love our diesels, we would not be so disappointed that they are being discontinued! I certainly don't feel 'cheated' at all with my car - in fact I love it.


THIS. ^^^^^^^^^

My 535d and X5 35d already were planned to be long term keepers. BMW's decision to discontinue their diesels in the USA has only strengthened my commitment to keep my BMW diesels forever.

Since whatever I own and drive HAS to be DIESEL powered, BMW not returning with diesels simply means I don't return to BMW as a customer in the future. My next vehicle(s) will be diesel powered but probably not made by BMW.

Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## Wasekcj (Nov 24, 2015)

The 5 series diesels in the UK are so much better.


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## geodug (Jan 22, 2018)

It's actually stunning to see so much misunderstanding of diesels in North America. My TDI went back 7 years old with 110,000 miles and only $75 in non-routine repairs.

My X3 28d just did a weekend trip of 345 miles of mixed driving and fuel economy of 43 mpg (EPA rating is 33 mpg for highway only). 

Lots of chatter about diesel cars without knowing how modern diesel engines behave. They are not like driving a John Deere tractor. All this discussion doesn't even touch on the better manners of the low-end torque which other car owners couldn't understand until they drove one for a while.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

geodug said:


> It's actually stunning to see so much misunderstanding of diesels in North America. My TDI went back 7 years old with 110,000 miles and only $75 in non-routine repairs.
> 
> My X3 28d just did a weekend trip of 345 miles of mixed driving and fuel economy of 43 mpg (EPA rating is 33 mpg for highway only).
> 
> Lots of chatter about diesel cars without knowing how modern diesel engines behave. They are not like driving a John Deere tractor. All this discussion doesn't even touch on the better manners of the low-end torque which other car owners couldn't understand until they drove one for a while.


43 mpg at the very top of the scale on that car, and likely too small of a sample size for comparison. For general consumer misunderstanding, you don't need to look any further than major media power of influence and pushes from many directions to electric vehicles. I also think electric or gasoline cars (and consideration of leasing or rideshare) are a better fit for most general consumers than modern day diesels. 
If you like diesel and have an appropriate driving profile, not a bad time to consider getting in on the late BMW lineup. Some really cool cars and some real rarities.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

In my opinion, I think BMW missed the mark in getting the word out about the diesel models. Many of my coworkers who have been long time BMW owners never knew they made diesel models in the US. Some even said they would have purchased one for their long commutes after driving my car and seeing that it easily gets 40+ mpg combined. They are getting 23-28 mpg combined in their 3 & 5 series cars with more expensive premium fuel.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

They had one commercial I believe and it was to compare how "clean" BMW diesel was. It probably missed the mark by showing other diesel cars spewing a lot of black smoke.


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## geodug (Jan 22, 2018)

dzlbimmer said:


> 43 mpg at the very top of the scale on that car, and likely too small of a sample size for comparison.


Sorry for the small sample size. I have about a dozen or more examples of the following photo you may not like either.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

geodug said:


> Sorry for the small sample size. I have about a dozen or more examples of the following photo you may not like either.


52mpg over 18 miles is impressive but not sustainable over the entire tank, much less 10 tanks.
43 mpg is rwd 328d territory.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

My milk, eggs, and cheeze run is six miles along a coastal road. The speed limit is 35 MPH. I can achieve 40 MPG in our G01 X3 30i xDrive, and 30 MPG in my (not Frau Putzer's, all mine) F10 535i.

Be wary of the significance of ultra-high MPG's. MPG is a bad metric, the inverse of what's really important (fuel burned/distance traveled), and the Law of Diminishing Returns applies. Here's a graph of fuel used in 10k miles/MPG. Notice that the line goes flat at higher MPG's, meaning that increasing already high MPG's accomplishes little.

The EPA calculates their CAFE numbers by taking the average of GPM's for the manufactures' vehicles, and then flips the number to get a corporate MPG.


The all-time champion for diesel (and hybrid) MPG was the VW XL1, a 250 MPG car. The added $100k for this car will never be recovered in fuel savings. VW built it to prove they could do it.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

n1das said:


> THIS. ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> My 535d and X5 35d already were planned to be long term keepers. BMW's decision to discontinue their diesels in the USA has only strengthened my commitment to keep my BMW diesels forever.
> 
> ...


My 2012 X5 35d reached 200k miles tonight on my way home from work. The car is a long term keeper and now much more so since BMW's no more diesels for the USA decision. The car won't be for sale anytime soon. How many more miles will it last? It's still way too early to tell. :thumbup:


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

Congrats on 200k. I’m still at about half your mileage. 


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

dzlbimmer said:


> 52mpg over 18 miles is impressive but not sustainable over the entire tank, much less 10 tanks.
> 43 mpg is rwd 328d territory.


Heck, 51 mpg is not even sustainable in my 328d because I have not gone on a long enough trip that was all highway.

The longest trip I have taken so far was on a business trip from San Antonio to Houston which is about 200 miles. I did 75-80 mph the whole way and my computer showed 51 mpg(and still climbing) with only a quarter of the tank used. I had to do a lot of city driving for 5 days using another quarter tank of fuel which dropped the mileage down to around 45 mpg. I drove back to San Antonio and the mileage jumped to 48 mpg with a quarter of a tank left and 150 miles of range according to the computer.

Maybe when I go see my friend in Albuquerque next year I will finally me able to see what this car can do on all highways miles.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

n1das said:


> My next vehicle(s) will be diesel powered but probably not made by BMW.


I wouldn't bet my last nickel on that. EnviroWeenies in Europe are well on their way to destroying diesel there. I've read that in a couple of years market share there has gone from 50% to 33%. I'll be surprised if there's a single diesel sedan,coupe or SUV for sale here in the US in 2020.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

Ok, I have to take umbrage with the use of the term “enviroweenies”. WTF! Why is caring about the environment something to disparage? Why insult people who would like clean air and less pollution? So you can get you ya yams off burning the last bit of clean air in a goddamn gas guzzling high horsepower **** box? I am sorry that my daughter’s future health seems more important that your fun. I am not telling not to do anything, but I am trying to slowly work towards a better future for us all. We all pollute, we can’t entirely avoid it, but we all can do better. Liking pollution is the most weenie thing I have ever heard. Get off our planet!


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

With a business trip requiring parking at SFO rather than the local small but expensive airport, I started driving the X5d again. Filled up on Monday, drove 85 miles to SFO, 85 miles back in bumper to bumper traffic (first third of that trip took 1.5 hours cuz we had a jumper at the Golden Gate Bridge so cops were blocking lanes), then 245 miles to Reno early this morning. Still have over a quarter of a tank left and I was able to shuttle a bunch of stuff that I had not been able to fit in the convertible this summer. 
Boy I love this car. It's really too bad there will not be a direct replacement.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Jamolay said:


> Ok, I have to take umbrage with the use of the term ***8220;enviroweenies***8221;. WTF! Why is caring about the environment something to disparage? Why insult people who would like clean air and less pollution? So you can get you ya yams off burning the last bit of clean air in a goddamn gas guzzling high horsepower **** box? I am sorry that my daughter***8217;s future health seems more important that your fun. I am not telling not to do anything, but I am trying to slowly work towards a better future for us all. We all pollute, we can***8217;t entirely avoid it, but we all can do better. Liking pollution is the most weenie thing I have ever heard. Get off our planet!


I was waiting for someone to play the emissions card. (LOL)

While it may seem counter intuitive, my choice for better air quality and protecting the environment and helping to save the planet is....wait for it....DIESEL! I will gladly take high NOx emissions from an emissions cheating VW Dieselgate TDI while enjoying significantly LOWER emissions in all other categories of regulated emissions compared to the equivalent gasser. The significantly higher NMOGs and VOCs from gassers compared to diesels needs to be addressed.

Check out wxmanCCM's links in my sig below for more information. :thumbup:

PM - https://sites.google.com/view/lmarzccm/home
Air Toxics - https://sites.google.com/view/loren-marz-ccm/home
Ozone Precursors - https://sites.google.com/view/lorenmarz-ccm/home
General - https://sites.google.com/view/emissions-general/home

"Pick your poison" applies.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

n1das said:


> I was waiting for someone to play the emissions card. (LOL)
> 
> While it may seem counter intuitive, my choice for better air quality and protecting the environment and helping to save the planet is....wait for it....DIESEL! I will gladly take high NOx emissions from an emissions cheating VW Dieselgate TDI while enjoying significantly LOWER emissions in all other categories of regulated emissions compared to the equivalent gasser. The significantly higher NMOGs and VOCs from gassers compared to diesels needs to be addressed.
> 
> ...


Yeah, NOx has a short lifespan and is mainly harmful in areas with high population density where it is allowed to stagnate in the troposphere. In less population dense areas it is allowed to dissipate into the stratosphere where it is good ozone. But, some people only read headlines or hate whatever their favorite club tells them to hate without checking the facts for themselves. Many think that gas engines are better for the environment just because they cannot see the emissions like you can on the old diesels.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

n1das said:


> I was waiting for someone to play the emissions card. (LOL)
> 
> While it may seem counter intuitive, my choice for better air quality and protecting the environment and helping to save the planet is....wait for it....DIESEL! I will gladly take high NOx emissions from an emissions cheating VW Dieselgate TDI while enjoying significantly LOWER emissions in all other categories of regulated emissions compared to the equivalent gasser. The significantly higher NMOGs and VOCs from gassers compared to diesels needs to be addressed.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you at all. I bought my 328d sport wagon after a ton of research that told me, at the time of purchase in 2014, it was the most environmental choice, taking into account all aspects from production through disposal of hulk at end of life. I am not sure the calculations have changed that much.

What got me angry was the derogatory term for environmentalists. Insulting and disparaging people who have a different view in their approach to environmentalism doesn't help anything.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Jamolay said:


> I don't disagree with you at all. I bought my 328d sport wagon after a ton of research that told me, at the time of purchase in 2014, it was the most environmental choice, taking into account all aspects from production through disposal of hulk at end of life. I am not sure the calculations have changed that much.
> 
> What got me angry was the derogatory term for environmentalists. Insulting and disparaging people who have a different view in their approach to environmentalism doesn't help anything.


Disparaging a group that disparages everyone not agreeing with everything they say and do? Could be worse I suppose but point well made.

How about well-meaning environmentalists who put forth useless regulations that give us nothing or make things worse... or something like that?

Try telling a true believer that diesel is cleaner than gasoline. I did and got patronized at a fancy party last night, ha ha.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

It is the height of hypocrisy to look to one***8217;s opponents for approval of language. What we cannot speak we cannot fix.


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

Doug Huffman said:


> It is the height of hypocrisy to look to one***8217;s opponents for approval of language. What we cannot speak we cannot fix.


I am not sure what you mean, Doug. Of course there are environmentalists who are stuck and can be jerks, just like there are smug and inappropriate "anti-environmental" people who want to degrade anyone who cares for the environment. My point is we should not simple define one group based on a few outliers. We should respect others and have meaningful dialogue. Using terms like "enviroweenie" and "red neck" or what ever, does nothing but create division and hate.

Beyond that, I just don't understand why anyone would not care about the air we breath.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

Jamolay said:


> Ok, I have to take umbrage with the use of the term "enviroweenies". WTF! Why is caring about the environment something to disparage?


Please tell me that you're not suggesting that the typical BMW owner in the US or Europe is staying awake nights worrying about the world's coastal cities being destroyed by the melting of the Antarctic ice shelf! They,I guarantee you,are the ones clogging up bicycle lanes during morning and evening rush hours. :tsk:


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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

listerone said:


> Jamolay said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, I have to take umbrage with the use of the term ***8220;enviroweenies***8221;. WTF! Why is caring about the environment something to disparage?
> ...


Some of us actually DO care about the environment. My house makes its own electricity and I have retired at least one small gas-engined power tool for an electric rechargeable. Also, I don't agree with some of the folks on here who remove emission controls.

Find me a hybrid BMW that gets 45+mpg AND can go over 600 miles on a tank AND has gobs of torque, and I promise I'll listen.


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

@Jamolay; learn to evaluate the committed pollution integrated across the infrastructure dedicated to your particular product, and the difference in integrated pollution without that product. You may start with EV batteries. 

Civility is enough, respect is earned the old fashioned way and never through a keyboard.

Also learn about signaling theory and virtue signaling, it is effective only within one***8217;s value-sharing social circle. Only acts are effective beyond your social circle.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Enthusiast 456 said:


> Some of us actually DO care about the environment. My house makes its own electricity and I have retired at least one small gas-engined power tool for an electric rechargeable. Also, I don't agree with some of the folks on here who remove emission controls.
> 
> Find me a hybrid BMW that gets 45+mpg AND can go over 600 miles on a tank AND has gobs of torque, and I promise I'll listen.


Do you think this is better than current clean diesel? The data show otherwise. But whatever.

PL


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

45 mpg and 600 miles/tank are better than my current clean diesel typically does. I have yet to crack 40 mpg.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

jck66 said:


> 45 mpg and 600 miles/tank are better than my current clean diesel typically does. I have yet to crack 40 mpg.


With today's prices, 36-42 mpg is not much different, and the 535d does go 600 miles on a tank with gobs of torque, so there isn't much difference.

Those that want to do even better would use the factory recommended 0W30 LL12FE oil and put on low rolling resistance tires.

PL


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

jck66 said:


> 45 mpg and 600 miles/tank are better than my current clean diesel typically does. I have yet to crack 40 mpg.


What kind of car do you have? Even completely stock, I could always break 40 mpg (hand calculated) driving it like I stole it.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

See this about what the EPA did around 2006: http://www.trucktrend.com/news/0601dp-new-economy-ratings/ They lowered their numbers across the board and did the same with diesels even though it was well known that gasoline cars didn't fulfill the EPA numbers while diesels exceeded them at the time.

It makes sense to see companies design to meet a test loop if you compare the 2012 Lexus CT200h which was originally designed for Europe (different test) while an otherwise identical drivetrain in a Prius (designed for the US) got "much better" economy numbers. In reality, this didn't occur.


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