# Villenueve out, Kovalainen in?



## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

"Rumor" has it that this is the case. Heikki Kovalainen (runner-up to Nico Rosberg in GP2 this year) will replace Jacques Villenueve for BMW Formula 1 in 2006.

I wouldn't mind seeing 2.5 Finns driving in Formula 1 next year! :bigpimp: 


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Oh PLEASE let this be true. Kovalainen showed his speed in GP2 and that one-off Champions Race event when he spanked Spoonface in Ferrari 360s.

Plus, I definitely don't want Villeneuve to be on my team next year!


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Patrick said:


> I wouldn't mind seeing 2.5 Finns driving in Formula 1 next year! :bigpimp: .


2.5?  Is one of them really small?


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## coelacanth (Jul 5, 2005)

Ol' JV isn't going down without a fight. He says his contract is ironclad and will race in 2006...though if Jenson Button taught us anything in 2005, it's that contracts aren't all ironclad.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Heikki at BMW?

Two words: No way.

He's been "bred" by Renault and is their official test driver. Just like Honda played hardball with Ant, Renault will likely not let Hekki go easily. 

I think a more likely scenario would be to have him test a lot in the winter, then if Fisi does not produce early in the season, Renault will fire him and bring in Heikki.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

WILLIA///M said:


> 2.5?  Is one of them really small?


Nico Rosberg is half Finnish, half German.

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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Heikki at BMW?
> 
> Two words: No way.


I am just trying to keep you guys updated on what I hear! 

This was printed in Bild magazine.

Villeneuve's buy out price is 3.5 million EUR.

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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Not sure if this was from Bild, but here's some more info. It certainly seemed implausible, but you never really know...

Kovalainen and Montagny 

Montagny back at Renault? 
Speculation is strengthening that Heikki Kovalainen may appear in a BMW cockpit next year. It is now reported that Renault, which earlier moved Franck Montagny aside to make room for Finland-born GP2 runner up Kovalainen as tester, is devising other plans. 

On the back of rumours that Renault development driver Kovalainen has in fact been released to sign a two-year BMW race deal, Montagny - earlier dumped - says he has now been asked to test for the Enstone based team in December. 

It could mean that the Frenchman will again fill the official test drive spot while Kovalainen, 24, earns race experience ahead of a possible Renault return in 2008. 

Montagny told the French L'Equipe daily sports newspaper: "Renault told me that it was finished between us. But they called me to ask if I could drive in December. I wasn't supposed to be with them next year but here I am developing their car!"


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Villeneuve's buy out price is 3.5 million EUR.
> 
> .


Interesting, the rumor has it that it's 12 million EUR.

Source: Veikkaaja :eeps:


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> Interesting, the rumor has it that it's 12 million EUR.
> 
> Source: Veikkaaja :eeps:


LOL. I read that ... :eeps:

In TODAY's news, it sounds like Villeneuve's contract will stick. Anyway, Formula 1 is full of interesting rumors!

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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Although JV has not been much of a performer lately, he _might_ be a good choice for the BMW F1 team in its first year. He's a veteran and former champ with experience, and may be a good fit for providing leadership and technical feedback needed to grow the team into championship contention.

OTOH: he might also prove to be just a backmarker in all respects and end up being a headache for BMW.

I hope the former is true.


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## LmtdSlip (May 28, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> Interesting, the rumor has it that it's 12 million EUR.
> 
> Source: Veikkaaja :eeps:


Yeah the 3.5 number seems really small. At that price they'd boot him in a minute if they felt they had a strong young driver.

12MM would give them pause.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

LmtdSlip said:


> Yeah the 3.5 number seems really small. At that price they'd boot him in a minute if they felt they had a strong young driver.
> 
> 12MM would give them pause.


So there must be a clause in his contract that allows for the buy out, there is no way Peter Sauber wanted to pay him 12M/year.

The truth is that BMW doesn't need JV, they have Nick to develop the car and his technical expertise is known to everyone in the pitlane. It makes a lot of sense to hire Heikki for a short term deal with option for long term extension, they need a young prospect.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Plus, don't forget that Heikki did testing and development for the car that won the world championship. That can't be underestimated.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

This rumor is heating up again ... :eeps: 

Frank Montany (Renault test driver that "quit") has now been called back to handle the December testing that Kovalainen was supposed to do ... Looks like Flavio may be ready to let Heikki go for two years to BMW ...


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Yeah, I had that in post #8. 

But as some other site (Planet F1?... don't remember) said, why would BMW bring in a Renault development driver, who is under contract to Flavio, into BMW for two years so he can then go back? 

Heikki is very good, but this still doesn't make much sense.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I haven't seen any current rumors on Fisi. It would seem that Heiki might have a case for leaving Renault if there's little chance Fisi will move. There was even talk about Fisi going to BMW, but there has been a lot of talk. The only problem with Nick is, he's not tested/developed a top F1 car. Did he do any testing for McLaren? He was, of course, in line to move there before Kimi came along.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

SteveT said:


> I haven't seen any current rumors on Fisi. It would seem that Heiki might have a case for leaving Renault if there's little chance Fisi will move. There was even talk about Fisi going to BMW, but there has been a lot of talk. The only problem with Nick is, he's not tested/developed a top F1 car. Did he do any testing for McLaren? He was, of course, in line to move there before Kimi came along.


I would suspect that 2006 is the year Fisi has to prove himself at Renault. Otherwise he'll be packing and looking for another ride with a lesser team.

My $0.02


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Yeah, I had that in post #8.


Yes. I was just waiting to get a Finnish source that had the same information - it came today. 

Lets see what happens ... Maybe Heidfeld is going to get spanked by another Finn. If that causes him stress, he can talk with DC about how to handle that pressure. :eeps:

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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

It sounds like this will get resolved during November. Even Villeneuve's manager (Craig Pollack) has admitted that it is "unlikely" that Villeneuve will be driving for BMW next year.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Flavio speaks (from SpeedTV):

"The last open seat (not considering the still uncertain Super Aguri team) in the 2006 Formula 1 grid just got a little more open, as Renault team boss Flavio Briatore confirmed that Heikki Kovalainen, linked to a possible move to BMW Sauber to race alongside Nick Heidfeld, will be the French team’s third driver next season.

"We are betting a lot on him and it's absolutely not true that he'll race for Sauber in 2006,” Briatore told Italian magazine Autosprint. “Kovalainen will be our test driver and he'll do the same formation program followed by Fernando Alonso." 

A Renault Development Driver, the 25-year-old Finn won the World Series by Renault in 2004 and lost the inaugural GP2 Series title to Nico Rosberg in the final weekend in Bahrain this season, when he also tested regularly with the Renault F1 team. 

"He's the future of F1," added Briatore, who also manages Kovalainen’s career. "In 2007 he'll surely be on the grid for the GPs, but I don't yet know whether it'll be with Renault or another team. We'll see."

Renault’s 2005 third driver, Frenchman Franck Montagny, admitted earlier this month that he would like to race in Champ Car next season."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Interesting. I haven't seen anything new (or these comments by Flavio) in the Finnish press.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> Flavio speaks (from SpeedTV):
> 
> "The last open seat (not considering the still uncertain Super Aguri team) in the 2006 Formula 1 grid just got a little more open, as Renault team boss Flavio Briatore confirmed that Heikki Kovalainen, linked to a possible move to BMW Sauber to race alongside Nick Heidfeld, will be the French team's third driver next season."


Ok, now it is a done deal, as Racerdave's post explained.

One interesting feature of this is that BMW is hoping that Villeneuve will realize that they don't want him - Theissen has told him this - and that he will himself (Villeneuve) agree to a less expensive buyout.

Talk about showing the welcome rug!

Anyway, this is probably the best move for Kovalainen at this time. And who knows, if Fisichella continues to suck, he may be shown the door, giving Heikki the chance to drive next year.

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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Crap. What a drama!

The news here this evening - again, rumors and speculation, which thrive at this time of year in Formula 1 - it was reported that Flavio's comments (quotes in Racerdave's post above) are just manoeuvres by Briatore to get BMW to accept the price that Renault wants to let Kovalainen go for two years. Apparently (rumor), Villeneuve is willing to be bought out, i.e., his price has been found.

Ok, I will shut up until I hear something solid! :eeps:  


:bigpimp: 


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Villeneuve it is then. He was officially announced as the second driver for BMW Sauber F1 today.

Interestingly, yesterday, there was speculation that he would be bought out, and - get this - be replaced by Alexander Wurz. The reason for this being that it now looks like DTM may not race next year (that is another story), and as such, 2005 DTM Champion, Gary Paffet, would be the #1 test driver for McLaren.

Anyway, that is now moot, but lets see what happens with Kovalainen, Wurz, Paffet & Co next.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Villeneuve it is then. He was officially announced as the second driver for BMW Sauber F1 today.


:bustingup


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

So could BMW not stomach paying the buyout?? 

I also saw speculation that Alex Wurz will be the third driver in 06, and take over race duties in 07. 

Official comment...

"BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen explained: "We took a close look at Jacques' performance level at the end of last season. After an extremely tough first half of the year - which showed that even a former World Champion cannot come back after a period away and be competitive from day one - he got closer and closer to his team-mate over the second half of the season. We are in no doubt that Jacques will make the BMW Sauber F1 Team stronger."

"Between 1999 and 2004 I experienced first-hand the difficulties and complexities involved in setting up a new team," said Villeneuve, "but I've never been afraid of a challenge. Sauber was already a good team and now we also have the resources of BMW behind us. I will do everything I can to contribute to the success of the BMW Sauber F1 Team."

Now living in Villars, Switzerland's adopted son will start work for the new team in the first testing session in Jerez on 8th December. At F1Racing.net you will be able to see the first photos from the test in the morning."


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> :bustingup


Are your guts busting up because I was wrong, or that JV is driving for BMW?

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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Patrick said:


> Are your guts busting up because I was wrong, or that JV is driving for BMW?
> 
> .


That BMW gave the seat to JV. His time is over (so is Michael's)

Do you remember the quote from Rocky III, where Rocky and Apollo were visiting the gym again after Rocky lost against Mr T? As they were in the gym Apollo pointed at the young fighters that were training there. Then he turned to Rocky and said "Now, when we fought, you had that eye of the tiger, man; the edge!"


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Jaa. Ok, and I agree. I am not convinced that JV will be able to provide much in terms of developing the car. It seems like it might be a waste of time for BMW, but things are as they are for 2006.

Yes, the Rocky analogy is spot on about JV. WRT to MSchumacher, I am not so sure. It all depends on the car and how well Ferrari adapt to the rule changes.


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

I think some people really try to bash JV a lot. The guy has a pretty impressive resume if you actually take a look at it.



> 1994
> IndyCar Championship: 6th place and "Rookie of the Year";
> Indianapolis 500: 2nd place.
> 
> ...


I think the biggest problem is he hasn't had really good equipment since '97. I still think, in good equipment, and the right team atmosphere, he could be a strong contender again. After all, you don't win the IndyCar and F1 championships by luck alone! He CAN drive, he just needs to find a car and team that suits him. :dunno:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

But where JV gets slated is in his car development skills... or lack thereof. BAR never truly advanced when he was there, and Williams/Head have often said how "difficult" he was to work with in terms of finding a setup. Head says JV made the 97 championship much closer than it needed to be because his setups were actually limiting the performance of the car. 

I do think he can drive very well, and has a combative nature in a race. 

But developing a car to show those skills is apparently not his strong point.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

JV is old. He has slowed down. There are younger drivers that are quicker and better.

Yes, he is a F1 world champion and won the Indy500. He should move on and try to win LeMans 24 Hour and complete the Hat Trick.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

They will pick a third driver. It may be cheaper to try JV and reduce him to a test driver if he doesn't measure up. I hope it goes well of him, though he never looked to have regained anything like his best.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

I'm not bashing JV. Among all those hundreds of drivers, yes, he was the better driver and he was sitting in the right car.

What I'm saying is that he doesn't have the determination, ambition, power that he used to have. I don't believe that he has the power to start from the beginning. 

You can't bring Mika back or Frentzen. They are in another dimension now. F1 is a much more harder business than DTM. It demands a lot more work (both physically and psychologically).

In his first interview before his first season in DTM, Frentzen said he was very relaxed, because, compared to F1, life was much slower and comfortable in DTM.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> You can't bring Mika back or Frentzen. They are in another dimension now. F1 is a much more harder business than DTM. It demands a lot more work (both physically and psychologically).


 :thumbup:

Exactly.

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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Yes, I agree that it's better to get a young charger on the rise (Rosberg) than a retread... although in the right circumstances, a retread can provide a real benefit to a team and its young drivers (Coulthard).


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

Well, screw the tiptoeing. I'm going to bash JV. I don't want him on "my" team, just like I wouldn't want Damon Hill to come out of retirement and drive for BMW Sauber either. C'mon JV, just hang it up already! :thumbdwn:

Here's a more realistic official announcement, with translations by Captain Subtext:

"BMW Motorsport Director Mario Theissen explained: "We took a close look at Jacques' *contract* at the end of last season. After an extremely tough first half of the year - which showed that even a former World Champion cannot come back after a period away and be competitive from day one - he got closer and closer to *being worth his salary* over the second half of the season. We are in no doubt that Jacques will *not* make the BMW Sauber F1 Team *immediately poorer*."

"Between 1999 and 2004 I experienced first-hand the difficulties and complexities involved in setting up a new team," said Villeneuve, "but I've never been afraid of a challenge. Sauber was already a good team and now we also have the resources of BMW behind us. I will do everything I can to *collect my paycheck from* the BMW Sauber F1 Team."

We got hosed!


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

:rofl: 


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## coelacanth (Jul 5, 2005)

Patrick said:


> Jaa. Ok, and I agree. I am not convinced that JV will be able to provide much in terms of developing the car. It seems like it might be a waste of time for BMW, but things are as they are for 2006.
> 
> Yes, the Rocky analogy is spot on about JV. WRT to MSchumacher, I am not so sure. It all depends on the car and how well Ferrari adapt to the rule changes.


I agree with the comments that JV has not had the equipment to excel in.
As for saying that Michael should be put out to pasture, I think that the San Marino GP is proof that he's still got it. Not to mention he spanked Ruebens all season long. If Schumi is done for, then I think it would be safe to say that 3/4 of the grid also don't belong there.

I personally was hoping that JV would be BMW Sauber's driver for 2006 :thumbup: . I like him, though I've also read he's very partiular about car setup and his wishes are sometimes at odds with what the engineers think will make the car fast, limiting development.

I'm still hoping for the best.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

coelacanth said:


> I agree with the comments that JV has not had the equipment to excel in.
> As for saying that Michael should be put out to pasture, I think that the San Marino GP is proof that he's still got it. Not to mention he spanked Ruebens all season long. If Schumi is done for, then I think it would be safe to say that 3/4 of the grid also don't belong there.
> 
> I personally was hoping that JV would be BMW Sauber's driver for 2006 :thumbup: . I like him, though I've also read he's very partiular about car setup and his wishes are sometimes at odds with what the engineers think will make the car fast, limiting development.
> ...


:stupid:

I don't mind JV being the other driver for '06. I liked watching him drive in '97. It may be wishful thinking to think he'll regain some of that form but you never know.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Enough JV news... time for Heikki. 

(From SpeedTV)

Never in the best of terms with Renault team boss Flavio Briatore, his Italian compatriot Giancarlo Fisichella is looking to have a farewell season at the Anglo-French team next year, after Briatore put the odds of new test driver Heikki Kovalainen moving up to a race seat in ‘07 at “90 percent.”

The GP2 Series runner-up this year will be Renault’s third driver for ‘06, after an attempt to land him a race drive at BMW failed (the Swiss-German outfit confirmed yesterday that Jacques Villeneuve will partner Nick Heidfeld next season). 

"'Kovy' is going to drive for Renault next year and be our test driver,” Briatore, who manages Kovalainen’s career - but not Fisichella’s - told Autosport.

"We have invested a lot in him and he is an asset that we have to look after. We want him to drive 30-40 thousand kilometers next year to be ready to race in 2007. It is 90 percent likely that will be with Renault, and 10 percent with another team."

The 24-year-old Finn dominated the first half of this year’s inaugural GP2 season but ended up losing the title to Nico Rosberg in the final race weekend in Bahrain.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

racerdave said:


> Yes, I agree that it's better to get a young charger on the rise (Rosberg) than a retread... although in the right circumstances, a retread can provide a real benefit to a team and its young drivers (Coulthard).


Talk about spot on...:thumbup: I seriously doubt that BMW Sauber can field a car design, engine and driver team that would compete in the top three places in their first year in business, anyway. I think that they'll put it all together in '07, including a second hungry youngster in the seat. I've often said that I like the looks of Pedro de la Rosa for that seat, but Rosberg would do just fine.


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

I see Rosberg has announced with Williams and Heikki Kovalainen will be the 3rd for Renault. Oh, well.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Yeah, Rosberg's already testing for them. Should be a fun pairing to watch... Webber and Rosberg.


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## coelacanth (Jul 5, 2005)

racerdave said:


> Enough JV news... time for Heikki.
> 
> (From SpeedTV)
> 
> Never in the best of terms with Renault team boss Flavio Briatore, his Italian compatriot Giancarlo Fisichella is looking to have a farewell season at the Anglo-French team next year, after Briatore put the odds of new test driver Heikki Kovalainen moving up to a race seat in '07 at "90 percent."


Hmmm I wonder where Fisi will be in 2007. Imagine what his season would have been like if he hadn't had all the refueling and car problems. Granted he was driving the R25. The McLaren is often referred to as "the class of the field" for 2005, but in the last race and after the season ended it seems that Renault's strategy was to reign the car in a bit for the sake of reliability so Alonso could consistently finish and secure the Driver's. But in the last race where the Constructor's was on the line it seemed to me that the R25 completely blew the MP4-20 out of the water. Not to mention the front wing on the McLaren made it so hard for Kimi and Juan to pass, while the R25 didn't seem to have any aerodynamic problems staying right on another car's tail.
I'm sort of rambling here, but I think that Fisi is a top 5 or 6 driver, though it's hard to tell because he got to race in the R25.

Here's a question. Would you rather see JV or Fisi in the BMW Sauber in 2006? (hypothetically...I know it's impossible). I think I'd take Fisi. :thumbup:


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

I think this is a make-or-break year for Fisi. Sure, no matter what happens he might find a ride. But Alonso cleaned his clock this year. IMHO, he's got to be closer, like JPM was to Kimi at the end of the year.

And also IMHO, I don't think Fisi will be able to do it.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

coelacanth said:


> Hmmm I wonder where Fisi will be in 2007. Imagine what his season would have been like if he hadn't had all the refueling and car problems. Granted he was driving the R25. The McLaren is often referred to as "the class of the field" for 2005, but in the last race and after the season ended it seems that Renault's strategy was to reign the car in a bit for the sake of reliability so Alonso could consistently finish and secure the Driver's. But in the last race where the Constructor's was on the line it seemed to me that the R25 completely blew the MP4-20 out of the water. Not to mention the front wing on the McLaren made it so hard for Kimi and Juan to pass, while the R25 didn't seem to have any aerodynamic problems staying right on another car's tail.
> I'm sort of rambling here, but I think that Fisi is a top 5 or 6 driver, though it's hard to tell because he got to race in the R25.
> 
> Here's a question. Would you rather see JV or Fisi in the BMW Sauber in 2006? (hypothetically...I know it's impossible). I think I'd take Fisi. :thumbup:


In the 2nd half of the season, McLaren was definitely the faster car. They lost the championship in the first half. Not to mention Montoya's unforgivable mistakes that costed them a bunch of champ points.


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

Alex Baumann said:


> In the 2nd half of the season, McLaren was definitely the faster car. They lost the championship in the first half. Not to mention Montoya's unforgivable mistakes that costed them a bunch of champ points.


Yep. JPM cost McLaren the Constructor's Championship.

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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

racerdave said:


> I think this is a make-or-break year for Fisi. Sure, no matter what happens he might find a ride. But Alonso cleaned his clock this year. IMHO, he's got to be closer, like JPM was to Kimi at the end of the year.
> 
> And also IMHO, I don't think Fisi will be able to do it.


Alonso is Briatore's darling, Fisi will have a hard time in the team. I'm seeing another Rubens case, if the team decides to keep him in the future. Briatore and Alonso is happy, why disturb the force?

Briatore wouldn't want a challenge against Alonso at the moment. If Renault manages to win the championship with Alonso next year, then anyone, who will be his teammate, will act as a helper, not more not less.

Fisi will be 33 years old next year. His time is over too.


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## coelacanth (Jul 5, 2005)

Alex Baumann said:


> In the 2nd half of the season, McLaren was definitely the faster car. They lost the championship in the first half. Not to mention Montoya's unforgivable mistakes that costed them a bunch of champ points.


Yea he made mistakes, but that grate that wasn't secured in China (again!) that caused him to retire...that's just rotten luck.

Kimi said he saw the grate coming loose, I guess Juan missed it.

In the end though I think Juan and Kimi make a great team.

As for the McLarens being faster, yes you're right, but like I said I think Renault was limiting their engines, while McLaren had the gloves off.


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## RaceTripper (Apr 12, 2002)

Winning championships isn't only about being fast, it's about being smart too. MacLaren was wicked fast and smart. Renault was fast and wicked smart. Renault won fair and square. I think they deserved it. Had McLaren won they would have deserved it as well. It's the nature of sport.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

In the end, lack of McLaren reliability in the middle of the season was the difference. When Kimi was fast and had possible wins the car failed for a variety of reasons. Once McLaren solved their fragility, they were very competitive. Renault had a good size lead to overcome and were stroking it a bit to make sure they collected max points. Had McLaren gotten too close we would have seen Alonso push harder. Renault got the lead and then maintained a steady strong performance, but didn't take huge risks they didn't have to. Montoya had some bad luck though that's true.


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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> Yep. JPM cost McLaren the Constructor's Championship.
> 
> .


As others have stated, that's not the case. It's convenient, but not the only reason.

Kimi broke many times when walking away. That's Montoya's fault? 10, 20, 30 extra points? (San Marino, Hockenheim were sure wins that turned into 0 points for Kimi).

Montoya also broke in addition to his "mistakes."

How many times did Renault break? At least Alonso's car? That's right.

That's the most important reason.

Very quick + great reliability = Renault

Ultimate speed + weak reliabilty = McLaren


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## Patrick (Dec 23, 2001)

racerdave said:


> As others have stated, that's not the case. It's convenient, but not the only reason.


In Finland, it is Montoya's fault. 

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## racerdave (Sep 15, 2003)

Patrick said:


> In Finland, it is Montoya's fault.
> 
> .


:lmao:


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## berford (Sep 10, 2002)

Patrick said:


> In Finland, it is Montoya's fault.
> 
> .


In Columbia, it's not.


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