# BMW diesel car sales disappoint in U.S. according to CEO



## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-ceo-unhappy-with-diesel-sales-of-3series-5series-in-us.html

I searched for this and did not find it so if it has been posted already forgive me.


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## stevehecht (Apr 13, 2007)

tonyspumoni said:


> http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-ceo-unhappy-with-diesel-sales-of-3series-5series-in-us.html
> 
> I searched for this and did not find it so if it has been posted already forgive me.


These cars have been on the market here for less than a year. I think the problem with the 535 is that the chassis doesn't get great reviews to begin with. I have yet to meet someone who knew that the 328d or 535d were even available. Most people know nothing unless they're told by the CA or a friend or family member. That's why more advertising is crucial.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Marketing apparently didn't the memo that US buyers aren't so quick to accept the badging nonsense.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

Marketing didn't get the memo to market the cars period. I have yet to see an advertisement for a diesel bmw anywhere except looking for it on youtube.

My CA said there were two types of people who look at the diesels on his lot. People who know they want a diesel and dealership employees who want to check out this strange car they have.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Hangman4358 said:


> Marketing didn't get the memo to market the cars period. I have yet to see an advertisement for a diesel bmw anywhere except looking for it on youtube.
> 
> My CA said there were two types of people who look at the diesels on his lot. People who know they want a diesel and dealership employees who want to check out this strange car they have.


I saw a few a couple of months ago on TV, but TBH BMW advertising isn't always model specific but about the brand.

FWIW I bet 335i sales aren't that great either. 435i will be so-so.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Here's another press tidbit that I found interesting:

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automob...stest-diesel-powered-vehicles.html/?a=viewall

Top 20 fastest diesel cars. 328d is amongst them of course. WJS says 0-60 of 7.4 which is a bit more specific that "around 7 seconds" which is what all the reviews say. Still - in very good company. Looks like those cross-shopping diesels may soon be comparing the 328d to the VW GTD.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

tonyspumoni said:


> Here's another press tidbit that I found interesting:
> 
> http://wallstcheatsheet.com/automob...stest-diesel-powered-vehicles.html/?a=viewall
> 
> Top 20 fastest diesel cars. 328d is amongst them of course. WJS says 0-60 of 7.4 which is a bit more specific that "around 7 seconds" which is what all the reviews say. Still - in very good company. Looks like those cross-shopping diesels may soon be comparing the 328d to the VW GTD.


If they're going to list cars not available in the US, they should have mentioned the 325d and 335d.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

Yeah - I hadn't thought about that. Adding the 225d would have made sense as well (0-62 time of 6.1s) Good catch. Pretty much my dream BMW: fleet, small, with low CO2 output.

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/performance/2014/2025500/bmw_225d_coupe.html


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

BMW started marketing the e90 335d in its last year, and that was for a few months. The commercial first showed a Volvo with lots of toxic looking smoke coming out of it. Should've fired the ad agency.

Reminds me of the poor marketing of the 318ti which wasn't even available on dealer lots. Then they said they were "disappointed" with the sales.

PL


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

I too was surprised how poorly supported the 335d was in terms of marketing and remain puzzled why BMW would not support their diesel line-up more fully. With 425 ft lbs of torque any dunderhead could've come up with a better ad than what was portrayed. Heck, the 328d gets great mileage and good efficiency (CO2 emitted). Who buys it? People who want to actually drive something that feels more like a luxury car than an appliance, which is what for example the Prius is. And no toxic battery. C'mon BMW - get with the advertising program.


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## stevehecht (Apr 13, 2007)

I saw a very good 328d ad online the other day. It starts with a Smart going down the road and the voice-over says, "38 miles per gallon is not bad..."--and then a the front end of a 328d zooms into the foreground, passing by and hiding the Smart--"...until you see what 45 miles per gallon can feel like." The screen goes to black for a moment and then it shows "BMW 328d" and "45 mpg" with it in big letters. It took under ten seconds but definitely made its point. Looks, power, BMW...and 45 mpg.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

Pierre Louis said:


> BMW started marketing the e90 335d in its last year, and that was for a few months. The commercial first showed a Volvo with lots of toxic looking smoke coming out of it. Should've fired the ad agency.
> 
> Reminds me of the poor marketing of the 318ti which wasn't even available on dealer lots. Then they said they were "disappointed" with the sales.
> 
> PL


Wasn't it a super bowl ad?


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> Wasn't it a super bowl ad?


Could have been, but it was used at other times also.


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

I saw a few adds when I bought mine last oct, but haven't seen one since.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

I have ever been of the opinion that BMW's sedan diesel offerings were an effort to raise CAFE numbers, given marketing efforts most charitably described as anemic, but the CEO sounds genuinely disappointed and surprised by weak diesel sedan sales. Could be teutonic hubris I suppose, but you would've thought they would have learned their lesson with the 335d. Folks like me who bought them have been passionate, as are apparently those who have invested in the 328d. I can count on no fingers the number of times even savvy car people showed the least familiarity with the 335d - heck, even BMW guys were clueless. Yet they seem to know all about VW's diesel offerings. This screams "marketing blunder" to me.

Worse to me is BMW's strategy of investing in both diesels and electronic vehicles. Lithium is incredibly toxic, rare, and inequitably distributed geographically. So BMW decides to follow the crowd, eh, paradoxically undercutting the money they have already invested in clean diesel.


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## tonyspumoni (May 23, 2010)

IDK why all these odd diesel news threads are coming up, but here's another one to share. I happen to disagree with this one, since the author is comparing two cars being driven as extreme speeds, but it does give perhaps some insight, however misguided, to the rant against diesel.

jalopnik.com/diesel-might-be-economical-but-gas-is-just-so-much-mor-1590351825




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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

With the eco credits gone, these cars don't make sense for the typical BMW new car shopper. The main reason a US driver would consider a diesel is the better mileage and to amortize the additional cost of the diesel powertrain requires a lot of miles . Let's face it, most of these cars are leased (therefore shackled by low mileage contracts) and without the help of the eco credit the gas version is cheaper. 
I suspect they will be very popular on the CPO lot where the road warriors shop for their "new to them" BMW's.

Edit so I can rant about BMW corporate greed and the manual numbers comment:
The main reason BMW started bringing diesels was to help them meet their CAFE numbers. If BMW does not significantly decrease their average MPG numbers, big fines are to be paid. Knowing this, why is BMW being greedy and still charging extra for the equivalent diesel powertrain in the US? They are trying to benefit on both front and back ends of the deal. This guy is crying, but BMW is selling more cars than ever, so they need those CAFE numbers to go down. Solutions is simple: equalize the MSRP / lease deal to make the diesel value prop better to the average person shopping for a new BMW and diesel sales numbers will increase. Everyone wins.

On the manuals: I love driving a car with a manual transmission. I have special ordered several cars so I could have them so equipped. The fact of the matter is that BMW is offering it on fewer and fewer models. Over the past few years, I have only needed to replace vehicles with AWD. To get a manual transmission BMW limits me to the 335i sedan which is too small for my needs. A 535i/d xdrive with a manual would be just right, especially as a wagon but that configuration died years ago.
We are going to be replacing the MINI in a year or so. It's my partner's car and he is eyeing a 2 series convertible. I am really concerned that this model will follow the same path as the 4 series convertible which is not offered with a manual - absolutely pathetic. Not to mention trying to test drive one. Again, the BMW dude is implying that manual sales are dismal and we're supposed to feel blessed for whatever few models they still offer yet sorry about poor BMW not selling enough of them. There is no question that fewer and fewer people look for a manual transmission, but making them available on all the 2/3/4 series models and most 5 series would help keep several people on this forum loyal to the brand. I know BMW has to certifying each version and that costs them money, but last time I checked, their profits looked pretty darn good.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

FredoinSF said:


> With the eco credits gone, these cars don't make sense for the typical BMW new car shopper. The main reason a US driver would consider a diesel is the better mileage and to amortize the additional cost of the diesel powertrain requires a lot of miles ..


I don't know how many miles, or what you pay per gallon, but my 335d has already saved me around $4,000 in the 82K miles I've driven it. And currently, diesel is $0.25 cheaper than premium up here in Seattle, so the savings is increasing...


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## Jamolay (May 11, 2014)

If saving money was the main issue, I would have bought a cheaper car. Any savings of a few grand on fuel is more than offset by the cost of the car. However, the diesel pollutes less and doesn't have the environmental concern of a large lithium battery.
The 328xd is the highest mileage AWD car made, so I was willing to pay a premium to get the highest mileage AWD car currently made and in the process get a higher end, sportier car than I usually get. 

This may be the problem for BMW advertising. I may be a pretty small demographic as sport car enthusiast is going to sacrifice fuel efficiency for power and handling, the luxury and SUV crowds for something higher end and bigger and the cost conscious for something much cheaper than a BMW.

The few, the proud, the not worth advertising to.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

FredoinSF said:


> With the eco credits gone, these cars don't make sense for the typical BMW new car shopper. The main reason a US driver would consider a diesel is the better mileage and to amortize the additional cost of the diesel powertrain requires a lot of miles.


This argument seems to never go away.

From Fuelly:

2014 328i: 27.0 mpg
2014 328d: 37.2 mpg
2011 335D: 30.5 mpg

From AAA:

Average cost of fuel over past year:

...................Regular.Mid...Premium.Diesel 
Current Avg.	$3.663 $3.848	$4.018	$3.901
Yesterday Avg.	$3.667	$3.852	$4.021	$3.902
Week Ago Avg.	$3.684	$3.866	$4.036	$3.905
Month Ago Avg.	$3.663	$3.850	$4.020	$3.916
Year Ago Avg.	$3.477	$3.658	$3.822	$3.817
---------------------------------------------------------------
Average: $3.631 $3.815 $3.983 $3.888

Cost of fuel for 50,000 miles = (50,000 miles) x ($/gal)/(miles/gal)

2014 328i: (50,000 miles)x($3.983/gal)/(27.0 miles/gal) = $7,375.93
2014 328d: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(37.2 miles/gal) = $5,225.81 
2011 335D: (50,000 miles)x($3.888/gal)/(30.5 miles/gal) = $6,373.77

So it takes significantly less than 50,000 miles to break even for a 328i vs. 328d since the difference in price is $1300 while fuel savings by using diesel is $2,150.12.

To break even: # of miles = ($1200)/[($3.983/gal)/(27.0 mpg)-($3.888/gal)/(37.2 mpg)] = 27,905.43 miles

Don't forget that the gasoline BMW's use premium.

The advantage of longevity, resale value, extended range, and carbon emissions is not even taken into account yet.

PL


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

F32Fleet said:


> Oh and boy do I wish they offered more diesel engines. I would've bought another 335d or 435d in a heartbeat.


THIS!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What *F32Fleet* said.

For me it absolutely HAS to have a diesel engine in order to get me to buy again. Gassers aren't even a consideration at all. I've owned only diesel cars for the past 13 years and absolutely WILL NOT own another gasser ever again if I can help it. No more gassers! All future vehicle purchases of mine shall only be DIESEL vehicles.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Hoooper said:


> I know this is what has been said, but its total nonsense. The E60 had a manual and was rated at 380 lb ft, the F10 came out just two years after our earliest 335d and its available in a manual holding 502 lb ft. There are dozens of other choices available (alpina B12 5.7 made 420 lb ft on a manual from Getrag which is the OEM N54 transmission supplier) If they thought they could sell enough manuals to build one, they would have. The reality is the american car market is not going to support a manual in a mid-high range family sedan that most people are buying for the difference in mileage over its gas powered equivalent.


Yeah, the American market. Must be why there is no such thing as a 335d manual anywhere in the world. Makes sense to me....

PL


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## M-technik-3 (May 2, 2005)

n1das said:


> What massive repair problems? My BMW diesels have been bulletproof reliable.
> 
> Diesel fuel SHOULD be more expensive than gasoline because it has more energy (i.e., more BTUs/gallon) than gasoline has. I tell the diesel naysayers not to worry because gasoline prices will be back up to where they were before they know it. Diesel prices will be up there too but diesel will still have the cost per mile advantage.
> 
> ...


Diesel should be the least expensive fuel, since it's the least refined fuel. It the tax burden the states put on it to make money off of truck drivers and hence why our Cost of Living has greatly increased over the years.

Look at all the pick-up trucks out there running Home Heating Oil to get around the taxes.

Fact that Diesels are great in their current form but when they need the valves media blasted at 100K is hard to accept that cost the dealer charges. Plus they come at higher dollar amount than a standard 3/535i so your gonna loose sales.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

M-technik-3 said:


> Diesel should be the least expensive fuel, since it's the least refined fuel. It the tax burden the states put on it to make money off of truck drivers and hence why our Cost of Living has greatly increased over the years.
> 
> Look at all the pick-up trucks out there running Home Heating Oil to get around the taxes.
> 
> Fact that Diesels are great in their current form but when they need the valves media blasted at 100K is hard to accept that cost the dealer charges. Plus they come at higher dollar amount than a standard 3/535i so your gonna loose sales.


Gasoline originally was a waste product of kerosene refining. Standard Oil would dump gasoline into the environment.

The argument that ULSD is "less refined" sounds bogus since separating out a barrel of crude, no matter what you look for, will give you both diesel and gasoline. Now that ULSD is a required product, its easy to say that both gasoline and diesel fall under similar levels of refining and regulation.

As for the cost of diesel in the US, the world wants more diesel, and has a surplus of gasoline. The US exports ULSD, now that the quality is regulated to a high level, but imports gasoline. This is what drives the difference in cost.

PL


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

Pierre Louis said:


> Yeah, the American market. Must be why there is no such thing as a 335d manual anywhere in the world. Makes sense to me....
> 
> PL


You're right, they didn't believe any market would support it enough to validate the development cost. Most likely they were right, considering that the alternative is that BMW couldn't get their hands on a manual that is good for 425 lb ft. Which would be ridiculous since GM, Ford, Porsche, etc managed to do it.


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## Hangman4358 (Nov 26, 2013)

The whole saying that diesel is more expensive is really wrong. Diesel is way more variable and the price is highly dependent on location. Just check out the othe thread about diesel prices. There are places diesel is usually cheaper than regular. Just look at this picture I took last Friday. There are areas where 1-2k surcharge for a diesel is nothing. The problem is that with prices so variable bmw would need to market the diesels to very specific areas and that is too much effort for them.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Pierre Louis said:


> Yeah, the American market. Must be why there is no such thing as a 335d manual anywhere in the world. Makes sense to me....





Hoooper said:


> You're right, they didn't believe any market would support it enough to validate the development cost. Most likely they were right, considering that the alternative is that BMW couldn't get their hands on a manual that is good for 425 lb ft. Which would be ridiculous since GM, Ford, Porsche, etc managed to do it.


BMW has access to bigger manuals, but I don't believe that they fit in the 3 series. Remember, the 5/6/7/X5 are physically bigger cars are wider and longer and can take larger mechanical pieces.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

Did somebody say 435d?

/cries

(and I don't mean 435xd thank you very much)


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> BMW has access to bigger manuals, but I don't believe that they fit in the 3 series. Remember, the 5/6/7/X5 are physically bigger cars are wider and longer and can take larger mechanical pieces.


what is that thought based on aside from just a complete assumption?

I've got one in mind which has been available since the early 90s, used on just about every American car as well as some Aston martins, and is in cars factory rated as much as 550 lb ft. In addition, our auto is the same one as was available in the 5 series and also 7 series. But apparently a manual, which is general smaller than an auto given the same number of gears, just couldn't be found or fit into a 3 series. FWIW the 6hp26 in our cars is the second largest by case size 6-speed automatic that zf makes, second only to the 6hp-32 which was only in the x5m and x6m from what I can tell


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Hoooper said:


> what is that thought based on aside from just a complete assumption?


When the E46 went from 5-speed to 6-speed, they had to re-engineer the driveshaft(s) to accomodate the longer case.

The Getrag tranny used in the 3-series is only good up to 350nm. They don't appear to make another that is 590mm long and handles more torque.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> When the E46 went from 5-speed to 6-speed, they had to re-engineer the driveshaft(s) to accomodate the longer case.
> 
> The Getrag tranny used in the 3-series is only good up to 350nm. They don't appear to make another that is 590mm long and handles more torque.


The 6hp26 is 705.5mm long bellhousing face to end of output shaft (or 675mm total case length), so that reasoning is out

http://www.zf.com/global/media/prod...atic_transmission/pdf_140/6HP26_DataSheet.pdf


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

Hoooper said:


> The 6hp26 is 705.5mm long bellhousing face to end of output shaft (or 675mm total case length), so that reasoning is out


We're talking MT - sure the Auto is sized differently; that's always been the case (heh, heh!)


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> We're talking MT - sure the Auto is sized differently; that's always been the case (heh, heh!)


So they could re-engineer the shaft to fit a different AT, but they cant do it to fit an MT? That doesnt make any sense. Driveshaft design is ridiculously simplistic, if the engineering department couldnt handle a change of DS length im surprised my diff hasnt fallen out of the car yet. Heck, they could just spend a bit of time redesigning the bellhousing and not have to mess with the DS at all. FWIW, the DS lengths on the 335i are different between manual and auto, both of which are different from the DS length in the 335d.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

M-technik-3 said:


> Fact that Diesels are great in their current form but *when they need the valves media blasted at 100K* is hard to accept that cost the dealer charges. Plus they come at higher dollar amount than a standard 3/535i so your gonna loose sales.


100k miles is a little under 2 years of driving for me. I'm glad I'm not logging those miles in a gasser. I do the routine maintenance myself and I have a good independent lined up for major work. I also have the dealer 3 miles from home. I'm not afraid of the diesel engine under the hood and what issues they may have. I have already been shock-proofed from being a VW TDI owner for 12 years.

Since I'm the only driver of my 2 diesel vehicles the miles per year will be spread out over both of them. My 2014 535d is currently at 44k miles. My 2012 X5 35d is at 86k miles now, bought used in 2014 with 52k miles on it (CPO deal). The X5's PO threw a perfectly good car away as soon as the original factory warranty and free maintenance ended. Both cars are routinely driven like they were stolen and regularly see long runs on the highway.

So far no issues with either car. Absolutely the best cars I've ever owned. :thumbup: I'll let you know how I make out.


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## txagbmw (Apr 15, 2013)

n1das said:


> 100k miles is a little under 2 years of driving for me. I'm glad I'm not logging those miles in a gasser. I do the routine maintenance myself and I have a good independent lined up for major work. I also have the dealer 3 miles from home. I'm not afraid of the diesel engine under the hood and what issues they may have. I have already been shock-proofed from being a VW TDI owner for 12 years.
> 
> Since I'm the only driver of my 2 diesel vehicles the miles per year will be spread out over both of them. My 2014 535d is currently at 44k miles. My 2012 X5 35d is at 86k miles now, bought used in 2014 with 52k miles on it (CPO deal). The X5's PO threw a perfectly good car away as soon as the original factory warranty and free maintenance ended. Both cars are routinely driven like they were stolen and regularly see long runs on the highway.
> 
> So far no issues with either car. Absolutely the best cars I've ever owned. :thumbup: I'll let you know how I make out.


Now I do not look at it like throwing a good car away. After 4 years just tired of it
and want a new one. It may have only 20k, it might as well be 100K. Ready for 
a new color, model. Time to move on to the latest and greatest features. If 
someone want a 4-5 year old vehicle. Great. Brand new, zip miles :thumbup::thumbup:

As far as BMW the brand seems to be having a high number of issue for such
expensive vehicles. Been reading several forums on X70 and F15. Other brands
are catching up and surpassing BMW.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

Here's a discussion of recent BMW reliability: http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/the-most-dependable-cars-jd-power-3-year-study.49688/


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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

n1das said:


> 100k miles is a little under 2 years of driving for me. I'm glad I'm not logging those miles in a gasser. I do the routine maintenance myself and I have a good independent lined up for major work. I also have the dealer 3 miles from home. I'm not afraid of the diesel engine under the hood and what issues they may have. I have already been shock-proofed from being a VW TDI owner for 12 years.
> 
> Since I'm the only driver of my 2 diesel vehicles the miles per year will be spread out over both of them. My 2014 535d is currently at 44k miles. My 2012 X5 35d is at 86k miles now, bought used in 2014 with 52k miles on it (CPO deal). The X5's PO threw a perfectly good car away as soon as the original factory warranty and free maintenance ended. Both cars are routinely driven like they were stolen and regularly see long runs on the highway.
> 
> So far no issues with either car. Absolutely the best cars I've ever owned. :thumbup: I'll let you know how I make out.


Hope you stick around and update with your experience on both cars as the miles accumulate. I'm still totally satisfied with the X5d and in it for the long haul, although not winding the odo's at nearly the same pace you are.


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## quasimodem (Nov 9, 2011)

Serves BMW right to have poor diesel sales, now bring the 335d back.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

quasimodem said:


> Serves BMW right to have poor diesel sales, now bring the 335d back.


And BMW of North America best label the car correctly if it does!

190 kW (254 hp) N57 engine with single turbo = 330d
230 kW (309 hp) N57 engine with two turbos = 335d

Existing BMW diesel cars and SAVs in the U.S. market need to be updated as well. ALL of them are labeled improperly.


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## floydarogers (Oct 11, 2010)

gkr778 said:


> And BMW of North America best label the car correctly if it does!
> 
> 190 kW (254 hp) N57 engine with single turbo = 330d
> 230 kW (309 hp) N57 engine with two turbos = 335d
> ...


And the gasoline (petrol) engines aren't lablelled "correctly"! :rofl: not going to happen.


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## LycanNyc (Apr 11, 2012)

quasimodem said:


> Serves BMW right to have poor diesel sales, now bring the 335d back.





gkr778 said:


> And BMW of North America best label the car correctly if it does!
> 
> 190 kW (254 hp) N57 engine with single turbo = 330d
> 230 kW (309 hp) N57 engine with two turbos = 335d
> ...


+1

I almost got into the X3 28d but noticed only 180hp/280tq compared to how good the numbers were in the 2011 335d (power numbers), 535d, X5 35d , it made no sense to get into the 328d for 15k more so I settled with the 28i for now and playing the waiting game to see if they think smart and bring us a 35d into X3.


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## gkr778 (Feb 8, 2013)

floydarogers said:


> And the gasoline (petrol) engines aren't lablelled "correctly"!


Actually, model names of gasoline (petrol) powered BMW cars and SAVs in the U.S. and Canada are consistent with the "virtual displacement" approach that the automaker now uses globally. They are based on relative power ratings, rather than on actual engine displacement. In that sense, the gasoline powered models are labeled properly.

For example, an F30 328i has a power rating between that of a 320i and 335i. And this power rating is the same whether the 328i is designated for the U.S. market or for Europe, for example. Nice and consistent.

By comparison, F30 320d has a power rating that's nearly the same as a 320i, and less than either 325d or 328i. Yet BMW of North America and BMW Canada have the audacity to label the 320d as '328d' in their respective markets. That's totally contrived, and makes no sense. :dunno:


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

With my *535d* I would have been perfectly happy if it were called what it is in Europe....a *530d*. I also wish BMW would bring the "real" *535d* here that Europe gets to enjoy that we here in the USA get screwed out of being able to get. The performance would absolutely blow away the 535i gasser sold in the USA while still returning better MPGs. I'm OK with trading away 1 or 2 highway MPGs to have the performance of the "real" *535d* that Europe gets to enjoy that we are screwed out of getting. Being able to enjoy massive Weapons-grade TORQUE while returning great MPGs.....what's not to love? :thumbup:

It's funny how these cars seem to always end up on my "most wanted" list. Basically the diesel performance offered here needs to be made so over the top that gasser drivers will find the diesel models irresistible. But wait...that makes way too much sense and could cannibalize sales of some of BMW's gas guzzlers in the USA....


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## Flying Ace (Jan 26, 2015)

once you go to turbo engines, from NA engines within the same model range, you're going to get a lot of "mislabeling" of model numbers. It use to be great when every year manufacturers would increase engine sizes and the larger number signals a larger displacement, higher HP, and an upgrade from the prior model.

Once you go turbo, engines go smaller in displacement, but marketing still has to imply that it's an upgrade, a newer model, and higher HP....so now all these numbers are all messed up. I like how Audi does it. They have a model number and a designation on the engine size. That's easy. So I see a Q5 3.0T, I know it's got a 3L (supercharged engine), don't get me started about the "T" for supercharger.

MB and BMW, good luck figuring out what's in that car if you're not in-the-know.


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

Try to understand USA the most corrupted country from the government down to average citizen.
Poor knowledge with implanted domination to have something what not existing human not made now & very unrealistic or toxic for use.
On this Forum many smart idiots & I call them Oh * want eliminate emission control and bread fresh air.
No one know physics and how Diesel engine is working - not have ideas means of lubrication and qualities fuel.
Dominating Magics and unsolved mystery s. * want junk food and be healthy for ever
same way treats cars and complain.
BMW Diesels become mysterious only for some limited number of customers and why?
Running from same assembly line Joe Diesel runs like a charm & Fred Diesel all the time huge problems with emission & plaguing DPF
Joe changing engine oil best synthetic and on time & clean Diesel Fuel
Fred never change engine oil & if happens only the cheapest one
No one think for second unburned fuel & poor qualities oils plugging DPF and intake manifolds & Valves.
This is how is and not mysterious miracles 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj2Iu3ZPIJI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW227-Bj4wQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Tc-YkJRxk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G8wXLtPzTI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz4V-4lMOrw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OcCPFZpN5o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwIFmZHjfPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGFm6uT04V4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpwrlWJMd40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heYRJtTeJRc


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## AMGE36 (Apr 13, 2015)

n1das said:


> What massive repair problems? My BMW diesels have been bulletproof reliable.
> 
> Diesel fuel SHOULD be more expensive than gasoline because it has more energy (i.e., more BTUs/gallon) than gasoline has. I tell the diesel naysayers not to worry because gasoline prices will be back up to where they were before they know it. Diesel prices will be up there too but diesel will still have the cost per mile advantage.
> 
> ...


Diesel fuel production is very cheap * marketeers problem with USA government only.
Second USA auto industry on very primitive level - poor technology.
European cars very advanced technology as Gas engines and Diesel engines.
Service those vehicles in USA is impossible * Joe garage not have equipment and knowledge * only miracle * charge big $$$ and car never fixed
Selling warranty which one never cover any fault - business and rob money 
Government politics setting the most stupid regulations
Why? is the way make huge super profits.
Gasoline engines start showing same problems with carbon buildup in intake valves and manifolds.
Diesel exhaust is much cleaner from gasoline.
Only in America


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