# Devastating news for Americans awaiting the M6...



## kc8yff (Feb 5, 2005)

I just read some bad news. I think I will die...

"At this moment, it is uncertain whether the M6 CSL will be sold in the United States."

---GermanCarFans.com

See it for yourself: http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoid/6040615.001/bmw/1.html.

This cannot be possible!!


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

1. Article shows edited June 04.
2. There has yet to be any announcement of the CSL in any market
3. The M6 is coming.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

don't see why an M6 CSL would be sold here when the M3 CSL wasn't.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

atyclb said:


> don't see why an M6 CSL would be sold here when the M3 CSL wasn't.


That's not what I was pointing out. IF a M6CSL is made at all, I'm fairly certain it won't show up here. But that's not news in light of the link, and doesn't affect the normal M6 being sold here. How is that so devastating? :dunno: What I do wonder is what this M6 will do for the values of the original one... :eeps:


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

Kaz said:


> That's not what I was pointing out. IF a M6CSL is made at all, I'm fairly certain it won't show up here.


oh, I know. I was just responding to the germancarfans quote in the first post


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

The problem with the M cars, even the new M5 and M6, is still the brakes.  

Or the lack thereof. :tsk: :thumbdwn: 

Come one BMW, put frigging monobloque 4/6 pot calipers on your M cars.  :banghead:


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Stuka said:


> The problem with the M cars, even the new M5 and M6, is still the brakes.
> 
> Or the lack thereof. :tsk: :thumbdwn:
> 
> Come one BMW, put frigging monobloque 4/6 pot calipers on your M cars.  :banghead:


The proportion of folks who *need* multi-pot calipers is tiny, and set to get tinier given BMW's volume strategy. As we know the number of pots is nothing to do with instananeous stopping power per se, nor are more than one or two pots necessary for the road. A car like the CSL, which is clearly aimed at occasional track use, does deserve the best - but for the road cars, in an effort to keep unsprung weight down, I don't see any more than two pots on the front in the foreseeable future.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Considering the number of people who buy M3s then complain about the ride, I would expect Ms to get softer rather than more edgy.

But I agree that it would be nice to have top of the line brakes.


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## ///M Blitz (Oct 27, 2004)

Kaz said:


> That's not what I was pointing out. IF a M6CSL is made at all, I'm fairly certain it won't show up here. But that's not news in light of the link, and doesn't affect the normal M6 being sold here. How is that so devastating? :dunno: What I do wonder is what this M6 will do for the values of the original one... :eeps:


Since the new 6er is such an ugly and overweight dog, we can expect the value of the "real" M6 and its gorgeous lines to increase.


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## kc8yff (Feb 5, 2005)

Oops... I made a mistake. I didn't see the 'CSL' after M6. I like the plain M6, and this may be a really stupid newb question, but what's the difference between the M6 CSL and the M6?


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## mng (Oct 15, 2003)

kc8yff said:


> Oops... I made a mistake. I didn't see the 'CSL' after M6. I like the plain M6, and this may be a really stupid newb question, but what's the difference between the M6 CSL and the M6?


CSL = "Coupe Sport Leicht". Been used by BMW for some time now to designate a lighter-weight, more focused version of a car. Interesting they'd make a M6 CSL...the new 6series and "lightweight" are mutually exclusive.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

///M Blitz said:


> Since the new 6er is such an ugly and overweight dog...


Hmm. "Looks" are a personal thing, but as for weight...

645Ci: 1,615 kg

SL 500: 1,770 kg
CL 500: 1,790 kg
SC430: 1,770 kg
4200GT: 1,670 kg
XKR: 1,670 kg

All EU weights, but minus the usual 75 kg included for driver and fuel.

How much do you think a 300+ bhp sporting coupe with four seats built primarily for transcontinental travel should weigh?

For completeness: a 258 bhp 630 i weighs 1,490 kg, or 3,285 lb.


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

The roof on the M6 is CF, some body parts are reinforced plastic. They have used almost every lightweight material that can be used. 

I doubt that the M6 CSL will be produced at all.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Alex Baumann said:


> The roof on the M6 is CF, some body parts are reinforced plastic. They have used almost every lightweight material that can be used.
> 
> I doubt that the M6 CSL will be produced at all.


:stupid:

The only place left to trim is on fit-and-finish items and comfort amenities. And who would want to buy a stripped out M6 without a stereo, a/c and power seats?


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## ///M Blitz (Oct 27, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> Hmm. "Looks" are a personal thing, but as for weight...
> 
> 645Ci: 1,615 kg
> 
> ...


The question posed by Kaz was "what I do wonder is what this M6 will do for the values of the original one..." The original M6 was no lightweight, but the new one (at between four and five hundred pounds heavier) sure makes its seem that way. As for looks, while you might disagree, few will argue that the "real" M6 has a classic beauty that the new Bangle butted one does not.

Cheers.


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## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

///M Blitz said:


> The question posed by Kaz was "what I do wonder is what this M6 will do for the values of the original one..." The original M6 was no lightweight, but the new one (at between four and five hundred pounds heavier) sure makes its seem that way. As for looks, while you might disagree, few will argue that the "real" M6 has a classic beauty that the new Bangle butted one does not.
> Cheers.


Given that 23 years and two generations of BMW platform (E34 and E39) have passed between the E24 M6/M635CSi and this new M6, 4-500lb - particularly if expressed as a fraction of the original car's weight - seems like quite an achievement.

Besides, I am not sure that 4-500lb is even accurate. European kerb weights (minus the 75 kg driver weight) put the 635CSi ECE at 1570 kg, and the M635CSi at not much more. A new M6 will be 1,710 kg, 140 kg (~300 lb) heavier than the old M635CSi. And the new 630i, comparable to the old 635CSi, is 90 kg _lighter_ than that car. Perhaps the original US-spec M6 was a stripped-out featherweight, given that it draws all these comments about the new car being so lardy - but somehow I doubt it was .


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## ///M Blitz (Oct 27, 2004)

andy_thomas said:


> Given that 23 years and two generations of BMW platform (E34 and E39) have passed between the E24 M6/M635CSi and this new M6, 4-500lb - particularly if expressed as a fraction of the original car's weight - seems like quite an achievement.
> 
> Besides, I am not sure that 4-500lb is even accurate. European kerb weights (minus the 75 kg driver weight) put the 635CSi ECE at 1570 kg, and the M635CSi at not much more. A new M6 will be 1,710 kg, 140 kg (~300 lb) heavier than the old M635CSi. And the new 630i, comparable to the old 635CSi, is 90 kg _lighter_ than that car. Perhaps the original US-spec M6 was a stripped-out featherweight, given that it draws all these comments about the new car being so lardy - but somehow I doubt it was .


Here is a quote directly from BMW:

"Added to this there is the unladen weight of only 1,710 kilos or 3,771 lb (ECE), combining ideal dimensions and ideal weight in a particularly dynamic blend. So with the BMW 6 Series already offering the perfect rendition of agility and dynamic performance, the BMW M6 enhances this driving pleasure to a significantly higher standard than you initially might deem possible."

So, if we compared that to the ECE e24 M6 (BMW claimed 3,350 lbs.), the difference is exactly 421 lbs. That is quite a lot. BTW, the North American M6s were heavier than their European counterparts because of the larger bumpers and equipment, including a separate rear a/c and cooler; however, I'll bet the U.S. e63 based M6 will be at least 200 lbs. heavier than its European counterpart as well.


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

Don't get me wrong. The E24M6 is no flyweight. A lot of the interior trim panels have STEEL cores, for crying out loud. But cars like Corvettes and 911s are 3000-3200lb, and have a LOT of engineering time put into them specifically addressing weight issues. BMW (and even worse, VAG) just seem to not care about this factor.


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## RONAN (Nov 4, 2003)

I thought about the M6CSL and waiting before I ordered my M6. However, my understanding is that the CSL will not be available anywhere till 2007 which is well into the model cycle. I think for normal driving the M6 will be a better buy. I have enjoyed my 645 very much and despite the styling shortcomings I think the M6 will be an interesting car to drive....


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

andy_thomas said:


> The proportion of folks who *need* multi-pot calipers is tiny, and set to get tinier given BMW's volume strategy. As we know the number of pots is nothing to do with instananeous stopping power per se, nor are more than one or two pots necessary for the road. A car like the CSL, which is clearly aimed at occasional track use, does deserve the best - but for the road cars, in an effort to keep unsprung weight down, I don't see any more than two pots on the front in the foreseeable future.


Are you trying to tell me that the brakes on the M cars do not suck? 

Many who track their M cars will disagree with you. :thumbdwn:

And we are not talking about stopping power, but the lack of repeated stopping power, which has been plaguing the M cars for a very long time. And an Al monobloque 4 pot caliper probably isn't any heavier than the current POS setup.

It really is too bad that BMW continues to put lousy brakes on their M cars, really.


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