# Driving in Europe has opened my eyes to US insanity



## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

in 2001 Driver Licence cost in Germany was around $2,000.00 (don't remember DM or USD)


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## PaceBMW of Mamaroneck (Jul 6, 2011)

MB330 said:


> in 2001 Driver Licence cost in Germany was around $2,000.00 (don't remember DM or USD)


if the cost was that high im sure every driver would take their privelege much more seriously. i remeber they mentioned on top gear once that people shouldnt be given a license unless they love driving, otherwise they may [email protected] it. their example was you wouldnt let jeremy clarkson near an oven because he hates cooking, and therefore wouldnt be any good at it.(couldnt find the clip :dunno


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## The Swede (Feb 20, 2011)

Don't you have toll-roads in USA? Many expensive road-projects are financed through tolls here in Europe. In that way the people that uses the roads pay for them, not al the taxpayers. 

I also have another question... do you need to drive a car with MT at your driving tests? Here in Europe if you take the driving test in a car with an automatic tranny you arn't allowed to drive cars with a manual.


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## PaceBMW of Mamaroneck (Jul 6, 2011)

The Swede said:


> Don't you have toll-roads in USA? Many expensive road-projects are financed through tolls here in Europe. In that way the people that uses the roads pay for them, not al the taxpayers.
> 
> I also have another question... do you need to drive a car with MT at your driving tests? Here in Europe if you take the driving test in a car with an automatic tranny you arn't allowed to drive cars with a manual.


we do have toll roads here but it's not apparent where all the revenue is going to when you look at the conditions of the road. My commute from NJ to NY runs about $15 each way, and the roads are atrocious. I have no idea how many people make that drive everyday, but I imagine the money collected at the tolls must be enough to keep the roads in way better condition than they are now

also, we dont have to have an MT to take the driving test, and you can drive manual even if you take the test on an auto


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## rsc0711 (Jun 8, 2010)

Education is a problem...You can get a license in most states w/ no training if you are over 18.

Most Americans don't know, or just don't care about the following:

You can't cross/turn through a double yellow
You can't change lanes over a solid white
Slower traffic keep right
Fog lights are for fog

In this country you are liable to get shot by someone with road rage if you call them out on their driving. I make it a point to give a wide berth to vehicles w/ extensive body damage.

The roads are terrible here in California when compared to Europe, no doubt.
Do the math: the Federal fuel tax hasn't been raised since 1993 and is $.18 a gallon vs .65 Euro per liter in Germany.


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

rsc0711 said:


> In this country you are liable to get shot by someone with road rage if you call them out on their driving.


This brings me to another point that was not said before (thanks for bumping the thread). Like with any addict, no "intervention" or period in expensive clinic will do anything if the addict doesn't truly understand that he/she, in fact, DOES have a problem.

What you said is just the extreme consequence of everything said previously in this thread - nobody likes to be called out if they are doing NO WRONG. Big majority of American drivers are not a-holes, they just have no clue they are doing something wrong. As long as the whole nation is brainwashed into believing that all our traffic deaths are result of speeding and drunk driving, there is absolutely no hope we will ever have safe driving environment.

I'm particularly sensitive to the issue because, unfortunately, I usually spend 30-40 weeks a year traveling for business and, if at all possible, I chose to drive rather than fly. Every single time on those relatively long drives I see something that is just unthinkable in other first-world countries and couple of times I was personally in danger - all because we either have inadequate laws for traffic safety or inadequate drivers driving legally.


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## trz (Feb 22, 2010)

European drivers are just as bad and just as self-entitled (if not more so) than Americans. Ever visit Berlin? Drivers have taken the sidewalks as their parking spaces (this was 20 years ago, things might have changed). Municipalities have taken to installing metal posts every six feet to discourage such actions - this makes a perfect parking spot for a Smart car and I saw drivers in Marseille make perfect use of such spaces. 

Many drivers in Italy don't understand what the left lane is for, so the driver directly behind the rolling roadblock will straddle lanes 'cause he doesn't know if the left or right lane is going to free up first and he wants to hedge his bets.

After 2 weeks of driving in Europe it was such a relief to drop the car off and let someone else do the driving.


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## Gianny (Nov 22, 2006)

Why can't Vignette for Austria and Switzerland be sold at the welt?


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## Alfred G (Apr 1, 2007)

This weeks's title of the leading German news magazine "Der Spiegel":










Streetfight - Boor Republic Germany

(Mainly about the daily fight cyclists vs. pedestrians and car drivers in large cities)


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## bigjae1976 (Feb 13, 2004)

My main gripe about driving in the US...I don't mind if someone travels in the left lane. But for god's sake...move over if someone is behind you. 

I imagined the US having no speed limits on the highways...then I laugh and cringe at the same time. But if you want to see what a bad driver really is, go hang out in the far east. China, Korea, Philippines...all TERRIBLE drivers. Japan is the lone exception among the asian countries that has somewhat orderly traffic.


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## BatteryPowered (Feb 16, 2011)

SD 335is said:


> Lots of rants here about everything the "other guy" is doing wrong, but how about some introspection? How many of you (honestly):
> 
> 
> Stop completely at every stop sign, even if you're turning right, regardless of whether anyone else is even in sight? Rolling stops are so common in my area that if you actually stop you might get rear-ended and someone else at the intersection will certainly grab your right-of-way.
> ...


Check to all of the above. It's a common sense, especially in city like NY.

On my residential block there's a least one serious car accident a week, usually 2-4 cars are involved as a result of offender's car "bouncing" all over parked cars. Lethality is a result of one of these accidents every other month. I keep writing to DOT to put a stop sign in the area, but they deem the block safe. Try and not put seat belt on these streets.

You absolutely have to stop on stop signs here because every other guy does not. It's either because they drive an S-Class and stop sign does not apply to them or they drive a beater Maxima and don't really care if they get into fender-bender.

Now that I write it, I realized that driving in Tri State area is a non-stop avoidance of morons.

One thing that should absolutely added to the list:

Check your interior mirror non-stop to make sure you don't have 9000lb hummer two inches away from your rear. Big SUV drivers think they come with insta-brakes and would definitely stop faster than 3000lb sport sedan.


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## PaceBMW of Mamaroneck (Jul 6, 2011)

gotta love NY :rofl:


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## ChuckE89 (May 15, 2011)

Mark K said:


> ... but that doesn't explain why they also have best vehicle fleet for personal transportation, best car industry...


Blame it on the German Motor-vehicle Registration System. A Standard Inspection takes about 2 hours, and covers over 300 individual checks. Anything safety related will fail the car. New cars usually get a 2 year interval, older cars [4+] get a 1 year interval. Inspectors train for 6 years and are personally liable for allowing cars in the road. Police have unlimited authority to stop and check compliance.

It is very tight, 
more than 1 drop of oil in 60 seconds = FAIL
tires/wheels not certified for that model of car=FAIL
certified Angel Eyes=FAIL
aftermarket exhaust must be certified for specific car/model/engine. if you piece a system together all parts must be certified for use with each other.

Having imported several cars in to Germany, it can be very frustrating


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

ChuckE89 said:


> Blame it on the German Motor-vehicle Registration System.


Oh, I know that, it's everywhere in Europe - I owned three cars when I lived in Italy and obligatory tech inspection was there long time ago.

If done reasonably (your list below is little bit too strict), I would welcome it here. On one of my trips I was locked in the pack on Interstate I-75 in Michigan forced to drive in right lane and in the front of me, in the left lane was this abomination of 2-feet-off-the-ground beat up pick up truck with ATV on the bed. Doing 75 like everybody else and fishtailing as the cargo shifted with the wind. I thought I was going to end up pretty badly, but then exit came and I was able to blast past him in the right lane and lose him for good.

How can a vehicle like that be legal to drive on public roads is beyond me. At least classify it as farm machinery - that way they cannot drive on Interstates and are limited to 35 mph (I believe).



> Having imported several cars in to Germany, it can be very frustrating


Yes, but the result is the purest form of envy - at least from my perspective. I'd go through all that pain immediately, starting tomorrow, in order to drive leisurely 100 mph on long trips and cut my driving time in almost half. Even outside of Germany, where limit is 130 km/h, driving on Interstate-like road is much less stressful than driving here. EDIT: the reason being strict discipline on truck traffic (55 mph while cars can do 80 mph and often there's a ban on trucks passing and going into left lane) and left lane discipline from everybody else.


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## 323power (May 23, 2005)

My big problem with drivers in the US, especially in the northeast, is that they take getting passed personally. I passed countless people on mountain passes and two lane roads in Austria/Switzerland/Italy. Nobody tried to speed up to prevent me from making a safe pass. They just kept going about their business. After landing in PHL returning from MUC, I was on the NE Extension going 90mph. I caught up to a car reasonably quickly. I could tell as soon as I got within 200 feet, he started speeding up to prevent me from passing. I'd say he was going 80mph prior to my arrival. I just don't get it...let me go by. Nothing personal, but I'm going to pass.

I've had other instances on two lane roads in PA where drivers try to speed up when I try to execute the pass. They go from 5mph under the limit to 20mph over. Madness I tell you!


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## jsleemd (Jun 17, 2011)

I don't get that either, when I see a car coming up fast behind me, I get out of the way and then tuck in behind him if he isn't going insanely fast. Better him the ticket bait than me. The two lane interstates drive me crazy as most cars are traveling in the left lane all by themselves because the right lane is usually beat up from the heavier truck traffic. That's fine but when you see some one coming up from behind, just move over to the right for a few seconds. What's so hard about that. Also I think there is a bias against nice cars in general. It's like class warfare out there.


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## BatteryPowered (Feb 16, 2011)

I think it's pretty clear where the problem stems from. In USA legislators don't care about roadworthiness of cars or endless traffics because people enjoy cruising below speed limit in left lane, they want as many cars on road as possible. It generates more sales for car manufacturers, more money for insurance companies, etc. and guess who's paying for lunches and etc of those legislators. Eventually greed will catch up with them, but it will take decades. 

A lot of traffics in my area can be fixed simply by forcing drivers to follow proper road laws, but none of them know what's proper because it took them 5 minutes to get their license.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

jsleemd said:


> I don't get that either, when I see a car coming up fast behind me, I get out of the way and then tuck in behind him if he isn't going insanely fast. Better him the ticket bait than me. The two lane interstates drive me crazy as most cars are traveling in the left lane all by themselves because the right lane is usually beat up from the heavier truck traffic. That's fine but when you see some one coming up from behind, just move over to the right for a few seconds. What's so hard about that. Also I think there is a bias against nice cars in general. It's like class warfare out there.


Whenever this happens to me, if the car is not as nice as mine I think to myself "get out of my way you stupid in-bred hick". When the car is nicer than mine I think "get out of my way you elitist pr!ck". I have developed a social class or sociodemographic schema for every idiotic a-hole on the road and conveniently includes built in psychological models that explains their behavior. 

As george carlin once said "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

People are lame. Like if you are doing 67 and you're approaching someone doing 65, sure... you can pass that car on the left. But if you did it and cut off someone on your left who is doing 80, the least you can do is pick up the freaking pace until you pass and then move out of the way and continue our 67mph drive. Don't hold the rest of traffic for the next minute and a half while you finally out pace the car on your right. If you're going to pass, commit damn it! I freaking hate that. Push it to 75 and get out already.


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