# climate control?



## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

Query:

When i set the climate control in my car to any of the lower temps (including the lowest), i get warm air... that is until i turn on the A/C manually.
Is this normal? 

It seems to me that if i set the thing to "auto", and ask for 16 centigrade, that i should get 16 centrigrade. It's like the blowers are trying to cool my car with warm air (because the warm air is slightly lower than the ambient temp).

In my Acura, the a/c will come on automatically when needed.

If it its normal, then i guess it's no biggie to have to click the a/c when necessary... but it's a bit annoying to have too...
auto headlights, auto wipers, manual a/c?


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

tommyd said:


> Query:
> 
> When i set the climate control in my car to any of the lower temps (including the lowest), i get warm air... that is until i turn on the A/C manually.
> Is this normal?
> ...


how old is your car? I had a similar problem in one of my previous cars... I ended up having to recharge the A/C... i think they changed the freon(sp) and did a few other checks... but now i know they use something other than the freon(sp) in the A/C's... Bring it to the dealer and tell them your problem...

with my old car, it happened at 110k miles, and cost $100 to recharge just to let you know... and it worked great after that without any problems..


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

tommyd said:


> Query:
> 
> When i set the climate control in my car to any of the lower temps (including the lowest), i get warm air... that is until i turn on the A/C manually.
> Is this normal?


Sounds normal to me (mine is the same way.) It is very annoying that the "auto" climate system is so "dumb."


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

ajt819 said:


> how old is your car? I had a similar problem in one of my previous cars... I ended up having to recharge the A/C... i think they changed the freon(sp) and did a few other checks... but now i know they use something other than the freon(sp) in the A/C's... Bring it to the dealer and tell them your problem...
> 
> with my old car, it happened at 110k miles, and cost $100 to recharge just to let you know... and it worked great after that without any problems..


The car's brand new... 2000 km on it right now...  
But like Bren said... i figured it was just a "dumb" climate control... surprising coming from bmw... that's why i thought i'd confirm...

i wonder if you can have it programmed so the a/c WILL kick in automatically?
must check with the dealer when they open...


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## kdshapiro (May 1, 2003)

bren said:


> Sounds normal to me (mine is the same way.) It is very annoying that the "auto" climate system is so "dumb."


I've had "smart" climate control systems for years and couldn't stand them. I'm glad the BMW climate control system is dumb:

1. I can direct air toward the windshield without the defroster.
2. I can maintain automatic air flow without the compressor. More importantly when I hit auto, the compressor doesn't engage automatically requiring me to turn it off.
3. I know when I'm hot, it's very easy to turn on the compressor. I don't need the climate control system doing it for me.

With a climate control system, sometimes less is more.

And yes, I believe you can have the system prorammed automatically to turn on the A/C, but I'm glad mine doesn't.


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## bavarian19 (May 11, 2003)

kdshapiro said:


> I've had "smart" climate control systems for years and couldn't stand them. I'm glad the BMW climate control system is dumb:
> 
> 1. I can direct air toward the windshield without the defroster.
> 2. I can maintain automatic air flow without the compressor. More importantly when I hit auto, the compressor doesn't engage automatically requiring me to turn it off.
> ...


yeah... my dad has the computer controlled climate system in his car, and it overthinks too much... every time you turn on the air, the A/C kicks on... i rarely use the A/C due to the fact that it kills your gas mileage... sometimes is really annoying too that when you first turn on the air in his car, it goes full blast A/C at the temp you had on it before... and i always feel like i have to play with it more than i would if it was a manual climate control  ... plus i love driving with the windows down anyway... but i would agree that sometimes less is more :eeps: ...


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

tommyd said:


> The car's brand new... 2000 km on it right now...
> But like Bren said... i figured it was just a "dumb" climate control... surprising coming from bmw... that's why i thought i'd confirm...
> 
> i wonder if you can have it programmed so the a/c WILL kick in automatically?
> must check with the dealer when they open...


It's operating as designed.

It's actually not as "dumb" as you might think. Unlike most cars, BMW's use a more sophisticated compressor that employs a variable thrust plate in the design, making it possible to vary the amount of compression for the working fluid in the cooling system, thereby allowing the entire system to vary the amount actual cooling delivered and the load on the engine according to need based on the settings of the climate control.

This is why you don't hear the compressor cycling on and off like you do in other cars, and notice the temperature of the air output rising and falling constantly.

Put differently, most other A/C systems are "on/off"; the BMW system is variable.

Bottom line is that it is okay to just leave the A/C activated all the time. When it isn't needed to get the air temperature right, it will place very little load on the motor. This also has the added advantage of keeping the air dry that enters the cabin.


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

I'm not sure i agree with some of these comments...

In my Acura, the compressor load is variable to the temp conditions being set, and as RKT said, always on...
That being said, the interior temp is controlled extremely well and i don't get on/off cycling as mentioned...

I have a droptop and seldom use the a/c anyways, but on those hot rainy days, it's a MUST and if i'm asking for 18 centrigrade, i think i should be getting it without having to manually hit the a/c button.
(it's not big deal really now that i know i have to... but it was a bit of an annoyance in the beginning getting blasted by warm air.. (practically hot in relation to the ambient temp))

I always turn my climate control off when leaving the car, so no quick blasts of an unknown temp the next day...

I just expected more from the climate control... it's like i said... i don't have to worry about the wipers... but i do have to calculate my comfort needs in terms of temperature and set accordingly... if anything, it should probably be the other way around... (or maybe that's just what i'm used to).

I'll probably look into that reprogramming... but i guess in the end it's just personal preference...

Now i'm going to stop because i can't believe i have anything to complain about on my car... it's just incredible in every way...

i think i'm gonna go to the garage and apologize...


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## remington (Jul 3, 2003)

I went through the same "huh??" thing when I first got my car a few weeks ago. I still think it's stupid for the AC to be turned on or off by the driver rather than automatically. That's just me, I drive a steptronic, so I guess I'm just submissive  Seriously though, I just got back from a 840 mile road trip to Salt Lake City in my wifes 2003 Town & Country Limited AWD minivan, and the automatic climate control on that thing is amazing, has 3 automatic independent zones, dual AC, you set the temp you want and don't ever mess with it. We were driving through 115 degree Nevada desert and we were never the least bit uncomfortable and the thing blows so cold that the car could be sitting in the hot sun for hours and within 2 minutes of turning it on, you are cold. Wish I could say that about my bimmer.


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## glaws (Feb 21, 2002)

I bought my first BMW about three years ago - a 328Ci. The next day after I bought it I took one of my (young, pretty) female employees for a ride. Hot Texas day, climate control set on "auto" 70 degree temp dialed in. Nothing happens, no cool air. Car gets hotter and hotter. Finally she says "what happens if you push the little snowflake thingy?" My face was red for a week.


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

glaws said:


> I bought my first BMW about three years ago - a 328Ci. The next day after I bought it I took one of my (young, pretty) female employees for a ride. Hot Texas day, climate control set on "auto" 70 degree temp dialed in. Nothing happens, no cool air. Car gets hotter and hotter. Finally she says "what happens if you push the little snowflake thingy?" My face was red for a week.


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

leave it to a (young, pretty) female to call it the "snowflake thingy".


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

I admit I fell victim to the same thing first time I sat in a bimmer wondering why the hell it doesn't get cooler, but it doesn't take much to figure it out. Anyway, I haven't touched my climate control since I got the car. The temperature is set to 70 and the A/C is on all the time. No surprises getting into the car next day or anything like that. It always maintains a comfortable environment. The only thing I play with are the vents because most of the time I hate being blown at with cold air, but if the sun is burning down it's nice to have the air blowing towards you.

In short: I love the climate control and don't understand what the problem is. Keep in mind that we are talking about performance cars here. There's a reason why you can turn off the A/C, so you get the full attention of the engine if you need it. Even though the compressor is variable, if you want full power you can always turn it off completely. You really don't want the climate control to interfere in those moments, am I right?


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2003)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this-

It's a performance thing. Only on the larger-engined BMWs does hitting the "snowflake button" not dramatically decrease the car's performance. It would be a huge PITA to have to shut down the climate control system entirely when you want/need more power when it's hot out and you are (were) running the A/C. Remember, most 3-series sold in Europe have smaller 4-cyl engines and need every drop of power they've got.

I'd rather they offer us the 100% manual climate control that is standard in Europe. Or, better yet, the manual climate control that was in the E30 or E34 cars.


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## nate (Dec 24, 2001)

you have to press the snowflake button to get cold air.


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

TD said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned this-
> 
> It's a performance thing.


Didn't I just mention this 15 minutes ago? :tsk:


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2003)

Oops. I guess I didn't read all the way through your post. Sorry.


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

Point taken on the performance issue...

I rather see my car a little differently... kinda like a luxury car with some kick!  

...and hence... from a 'luxury' perspective... i wanna have 18 celsius (i'm a Canuck) when i set the damn thing for 18 celsius. I think it's make more sense for me to hit the snowflake thing to turn OFF the a/c when i want the extra power... (to run down the 1986 camaro dude)...

but that's jsut my opinion. It's no big deal once you know about it... was just a surprise in the beginning..

on a related note... someone mentioned that they have their a/c on all the time, but once i turn my car off... i'll have to hit the snowflake again to turn it back on... :dunno:


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## warpedmind (Oct 17, 2002)

The A/C setting is a key memory option. There are two settings. The A/C default is only on when you press the snowflake button. Once you turn off the vehicle it is turned off so the next time you have to manually push it again. The other option is it is turned on automatically with the ignition. So everytime you start the car the A/C is on.

Here is the link I used to look up the options so I know what I want to make active for the key memory.

http://www.bmwnation.com/tech/tech_3carkeycfg_01.html


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

My car... if I turn the car off with the with the AC on it will start with the AC on, and if off will start up with the AC off. 

What's the big deal? :dunno:


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

tommyd said:


> I'm not sure i agree with some of these comments...
> 
> In my Acura, the compressor load is variable to the temp conditions being set, and as RKT said, always on...
> That being said, the interior temp is controlled extremely well and i don't get on/off cycling as mentioned...
> ...


I understand. I'm not sure you understood my point though - there's no reason to turn the AC compressor off. Under colder external conditions, it won't be loading your enigne. It will in effect be "off" due to the variable thrust plate design.

Now, if it switches off every time you turn the car off (i.e. you have to reactivate it when you start the car by pressing the "snowflake thingy" ) then you need to have that reprogrammed at the dealer. The state of the compressor can be programmed to automatically be on, off, or retain whatever state it was in (when the car is stopped) when the motor's started. Mine was in the "retain state" mode when I took delivery.

Personally, I prefer this to the type of operation you have been describing here. I'd rather have the control over things. It would bother me if the compressor were of the more primitive type, but since there really isn't a penalty for leaving it activated all the time, I'd rather be in control.


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## MysticBlue (Jun 20, 2003)

Ditto... If I turn the car off with the ac on, the ac will be on when I start it. If I turn the car off with the ac off, it will be off when I start it again. I was like every one else here. When I first got it, it didn't seem right, but now that I've used it, it seems just fine. This time of year, the ac just stays on all the time and I don't have to mess with anything.


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## RKT BMR (Sep 7, 2002)

tommyd said:


> on a related note... someone mentioned that they have their a/c on all the time, but once i turn my car off... i'll have to hit the snowflake again to turn it back on... :dunno:


Well, uh, yeah. Would you prefer it to act posessed and turn back on on its own, unpredictably, after you had deliberately turned it off? This would annoy me enormously!

If your preference is a completely automatic system, leave it on all the time. In fact, go to the dealer and have them program the system to automatically turn on the compressor every time you start the car. In cold weather, there is little to no penalty in drag on the motor from the compressor, because of the way the entire system works, varying the compressor load based on system demand. Then, under load conditions (liike a hot day) when you explicitly want to sacrifice cooling for power, you can turn it off deliberately to get the power.

Why you would want it to unpredictably switch itself back on (perhaps right in the middle of your pedal-to-the-metal dragrace :yikes is a mystery to me


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

tommyd said:


> on a related note... someone mentioned that they have their a/c on all the time, but once i turn my car off... i'll have to hit the snowflake again to turn it back on... :dunno:


I have not changed any of the key settings, but my A/C stays on and the last temp setting used will be memorized. I agree that if you have to hit the snowflake every time you start the car, I would be annoyed as well. It seems US spec cars come with the A/C memory setting preset.


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## tommyd (Jul 8, 2003)

Some of y'all missed my point...

It's not that i want the a/c to pop on inexplicitly... i just thought it'd be convenient to have it on at all times. When it's needed, then i'll get the temp i want... when it's not... there's no load on the engine since the compressor will essentially be off...
but through all this... i'll never have to hit the 'snowflake'...

It appears this can be done through programming of the system which i'll look into in the morrow... i think i like the idea of the 'retain state' mode... makes a lot of sense... :thumbup: 

As it is right now... even if i have the a/c on when i shut the car off... the next time i start it up... it'll be off again.
So if i have consequently hot, rainy days... i'll have to hit the snowflake to stay cool... and THIS is annoying...
Conversely... if would be annoying if i had to turn the dang thing off during colder weather... so 'retain state' works for me...

(mostly a moot point except for on hot rainy days... i own a cic... and plan to store in the winter...)

gee... it was such an innocent question i thought... so much hooplah!
:rofl:


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

tommyd said:


> Some of y'all missed my point...
> 
> It's not that i want the a/c to pop on inexplicitly... i just thought it'd be convenient to have it on at all times. When it's needed, then i'll get the temp i want... when it's not... there's no load on the engine since the compressor will essentially be off...
> but through all this... i'll never have to hit the 'snowflake'...
> ...


Yes, you get all this with proper key programming as I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. My snowflake is always on, even after I shut the car off, and the system cools or heats the air as necessary. I guess the confusion comes from the fact that Canadian and USA cars seem to come preprogrammed with different settings. BMW Canada doesn't seem to think that you need the A/C next time you start the car. :dunno:


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## marcelgood (Jan 24, 2003)

RKT BMR said:


> Well, uh, yeah. Would you prefer it to act posessed and turn back on on its own, unpredictably, after you had deliberately turned it off? This would annoy me enormously!
> 
> If your preference is a completely automatic system, leave it on all the time. In fact, go to the dealer and have them program the system to automatically turn on the compressor every time you start the car. In cold weather, there is little to no penalty in drag on the motor from the compressor, because of the way the entire system works, varying the compressor load based on system demand. Then, under load conditions (liike a hot day) when you explicitly want to sacrifice cooling for power, you can turn it off deliberately to get the power.
> 
> Why you would want it to unpredictably switch itself back on (perhaps right in the middle of your pedal-to-the-metal dragrace :yikes is a mystery to me


Well, the way mine works is if I had the A/C on before I shut off the car, next time I start the car the A/C is still on. If I turn the A/C off before I shut off the car it is still off next time I start the car. Isn't that the idea of the A/C memory setting?


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## kdshapiro (May 1, 2003)

remington said:


> I went through the same "huh??" thing when I first got my car a few weeks ago. I still think it's stupid for the AC to be turned on or off by the driver rather than automatically. That's just me, I drive a steptronic, so I guess I'm just submissive  Seriously though, I just got back from a 840 mile road trip to Salt Lake City in my wifes 2003 Town & Country Limited AWD minivan, and the automatic climate control on that thing is amazing, has 3 automatic independent zones, dual AC, you set the temp you want and don't ever mess with it. We were driving through 115 degree Nevada desert and we were never the least bit uncomfortable and the thing blows so cold that the car could be sitting in the hot sun for hours and within 2 minutes of turning it on, you are cold. Wish I could say that about my bimmer.


I can say that about my Bimmer. When we on the east coast had temperatures close to 100 degrees, my BMW was blowing beer cold air. I have a dual zone climate control system in my other current non-BMW vehicle. I've used the dual feature 3 times in over a year. I do not mind pressing the snowflake thingy to turn on the compressor on. I do miss the infrared sensors in my Jeep though.

edit - I've never had a climate control system that I didn't fiddle with the controls, even in high end Mercedes that I've ridden in. I usually find I have to adjust the air-flow for a given temperature. And most of the time the air-flow at a given temperature is almost never to my liking. Most cars will keep you warm in winter, the harder part is keeping you cool in the summer.


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