# Replacing brake calipers on a 14 year old car.



## RBinDC (Aug 8, 2010)

I take my 1997 Lexus SC300 coupe to the Lexus dealership to get it looked over as it has developed a bad shimmy at 50 mph. I assume it's wheel out of balance. WRONG! The SA tells me my front calipers are seizing up and need to be replaced along with the rotors and pads. Estimated cost: $2800. I immediately go into shock. The car is 14 years old and will only fetch about $8000, maybe $9000 tops when I sell it this Spring. 

I check the Lexus Club website and am told that this job by an independent should cost less than $1000 using rebuilt calipers. Then a friend of mine that races his M3 says he knows of a mechanic who was with Team Lexus back when they were racing. The mechanic says he will rebuild the calipers himself as he has the tools needed and has done this many times before. 

When I pick up the car at the dealer they warn me that I should replace the calipers with Lexus/Toyota OEM equipment because calipers get brittle with age and 14 year old calipers should not be rebuilt. 

In sure someone on this forum knows all about this and can tell me whether the dealer is right. Brakes are pretty critical. Should I install new calipers? (Of course the pads and rotors will be replaced with new, OEM equipment, which are relatively cheap). Actually I may upgrade to Hawk HPS pads on the front. 

Help guys.


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

First things first. The shimmy.
Is is the same when you are applying the brakes and not applying the brakes? Is it not noticeable until you are coming up to an exit and then quickly apply the brakes? Does your steering wheel shake? Does the brake pedal pulsate? Do you feel the shaking more in the steering wheel and pedal than in the seat?

Answer these questions and then I'll address the issue of how much the repairs will cost.
Quick response; A good indy can do the job you were quoted for far less than you were quoted. If I did this job for a grand I would have been able to retire years ago.

We may get moved, but I'll follow the thread. There's a new sheriff in town...Llando's the name. Him and his sidekick Emission are trying to clean up Dodge. They're trying to keep us on topic a little better than we have been.:thumbup:


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## RBinDC (Aug 8, 2010)

DSXMachina said:


> First things first. The shimmy.
> Is is the same when you are applying the brakes and not applying the brakes? Is it not noticeable until you are coming up to an exit and then quickly apply the brakes? Does your steering wheel shake? Does the brake pedal pulsate? Do you feel the shaking more in the steering wheel and pedal than in the seat?
> 
> Answer these questions and then I'll address the issue of how much the repairs will cost.
> ...


DSX,

I was hoping you would reply.

The shimmy starts at about 50 mph and is primarily in the steering wheel. It feels like a wheel is coming off. Also, when I first start out the car feels like the brakes are dragging. In addition sometimes there is a groan from the right front wheel. Both front rotors are blue, as if they were overheated.

So doc, what your diagnosis and what's the preferred treatment? I have a potential buyer for the car who said he would take it as-is if he buys it. However he lives 500 miles away. I doubt the car will go that far without breaking down.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

This is pretty common on older cars... owners neglect to change the brake fluid on a regular basis (at least every few years) and the calipers start to do funny things like seize or hang. When they "hang" the one pad will rest against the rotor and heat up much more than the other... leaving pad deposits on the rotor. It's a mess.

When I acquired my '86 Porsche it was about 15 years old at the time. There was a shimmy, so I took a drive then hit each wheel with an infrared thermometer when I got home. As expected, two wheels were much warmer than the others... hanging calipers. 

Since this was not my daily driver, I took the DIY approach and picked up a service book and rebuilt all of my calipers one at a time. Of course, Porsche calipers have many pistons so it took me some time... while your Lexus calipers likely only have one piston each. It isn't a difficult job, and it will save you a ton of money...

That said, any competent mechanic can rebuild a caliper. Or, you can get "rebuilt" calipers (you will need to turn in your old calipers as a "core") and bolt those on. 

I have never heard of calipers getting brittle with age (they are mostly made of high-grade aluminum or steel). Imagine the product liability Lexus has if this is really the case. I call B.S. on that.

I'm going to move this thread, but I will keep involved.

- Mike


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## RBinDC (Aug 8, 2010)

Emission said:


> This is pretty common on older cars... owners neglect to change the brake fluid on a regular basis (at least every few years) and the calipers start to do funny things like seize or hang. When they "hang" the one pad will rest against the rotor and heat up much more than the other... leaving pad deposits on the rotor. It's a mess.
> 
> When I acquired my '86 Porsche it was about 15 years old at the time. There was a shimmy, so I took a drive then hit each wheel with an infrared thermometer when I got home. As expected, two wheels were much warmer than the others... hanging calipers.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information, Sheriff. I have been changing my brake fluld at regular intervals but perhaps not every two years.

Both AutoZone and Advance Auto sell rebuilt calipers for my car but I don't have a lot of confidence in their rebuilt stuff. Am I being too cautious?


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

RBinDC said:


> DSX,
> 
> I was hoping you would reply.
> 
> ...


Our cars don't have hub caps so this doesn't apply but it illustrates the problem. A woman called me last Tuesday to say her hubcap had fallen off her Taurus and she couldn't get it to stay on. I told her to bring in the car and I'd put it on. When she arrived she brought in the hubcap, the entire center was melted out!

I asked her if she had any driveability symptoms and she proceeded to tell me a story similar to yours. I found that her right front hub was over 625 degrees. The rotor was a very nice cobalt blue. Time for a new hub bearing, calipers, rotors and pads. (We did both sides.)

Yep, sounds like you have calipers hanging up, it's VERY odd that both sides are doing it! You have to ask the mechanic to be sure pressure is released when the pedal is released. It may be that a hydraulic failure is the root cause of the subsequent failures.

You are going to need to have the calipers replaced, as well as the rotors and pads. you may be able to get what are called loaded calipers, they come with the pads already in them. The drawback is that the pads may not be the best quality.

I would ask a trusted indy to quote you a brake job based on what I wrote, and get a price based on premium parts, and one on mid-line parts. I am on a trip so can't quote you the job, but if we did this with premium aftermarket parts, including labor (this is what we call a gravy job, little labor, lotsa parts) it would run well under a thousand, maybe 800.


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

RBinDC said:


> Thanks for the information, Sheriff. I have been changing my brake fluld at regular intervals but perhaps not every two years.
> 
> Both AutoZone and Advance Auto sell rebuilt calipers for my car but I don't have a lot of confidence in their rebuilt stuff. Am I being too cautious?


If you are going to DIY, then try a NAPA store, they generally have very good quality parts. In re: Emission's caliper comments- some calipers now have phenolic (plastic, a thermoset resin!) pistons. I don't know if yours do, I kinda doubt it.


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## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

RBinDC said:


> Thanks for the information, Sheriff. I have been changing my brake fluld at regular intervals but perhaps not every two years.
> 
> Both AutoZone and Advance Auto sell rebuilt calipers for my car but I don't have a lot of confidence in their rebuilt stuff. Am I being too cautious?


They would come with a minimum of a two year warranty, and you said it'll likely be out of your hands by then. I'd buy theirs.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

RBinDC said:


> Thanks for the information, Sheriff. I have been changing my brake fluld at regular intervals but perhaps not every two years.
> 
> Both AutoZone and Advance Auto sell rebuilt calipers for my car but I don't have a lot of confidence in their rebuilt stuff. Am I being too cautious?


Most of the time AutoZone and Advance sell the same stuff your mechanic will get. I put an AutoZone starter on my Porsche 930 a few years ago... it was a BOSCH unit (OEM) that was perfect. Companies simply rebuild the core (in this case, it was a BOSCH core). You can ask AutoZone who makes the part before you open your wallet.

I have my own BMW/Porsche parts company, but I can get all parts... I just looked up my cost on a 1997 Lexus SC300 front caliper and it was <$55.00 (wholesale cost). It is a "NuGeon" brand (remanufactured).

- Mike


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

DSXMachina said:


> If you are going to DIY, then try a NAPA store, they generally have very good quality parts. In re: Emission's caliper comments- some calipers now have phenolic (plastic, a thermoset resin!) pistons. I don't know if yours do, I kinda doubt it.


Interesting.

You and I both doubt any manufacturer will put a car on the road with calipers that become brittle after a decade. :yikes:

- Mike


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## Bob Shiftright (Feb 3, 2006)

RBinDC said:


> When I pick up the car at the dealer they warn me that I should replace the calipers with Lexus/Toyota OEM equipment because calipers get brittle with age and 14 year old calipers should not be rebuilt.


FWIW I've had two seized calipers on my Volvo (age 12 1/2) and I'm religious about brake fluid changes.

The replacement calipers were rebuilt and Volvo is probably a lot more conscious and overly cautious about safety than Lexus/Toyota.

"Brittle with age"???? What does Toyota make its brake calipers out of? :dunno: I never take a car to the dealer once it's past warranty!


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

I'll clarify... you can have caliper problems even with annual brake fluid changes... :thumbup:

- Mike


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## DSXMachina (Dec 20, 2007)

When brake calipers were iron or steel and so were the pistons, the brake fluid would suck up moisture from the air and rust the bores. This would either accelerate piston seal wear, or stick the piston to the cylinder. More frequent fluid changes would minimize this problem.
I haven't rebuilt a caliper, a starter or an alternator for over 10 years (I did do a carb year ago). That said, I would rebuild my own calipers if they went bad. It's quite easy to do -if you can still find a kit, and have a cylinder hone.


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## Emission (Dec 19, 2001)

DSXMachina said:


> When brake calipers were iron or steel and so were the pistons, the brake fluid would suck up moisture from the air and rust the bores. This would either accelerate piston seal wear, or stick the piston to the cylinder. More frequent fluid changes would minimize this problem.
> I haven't rebuilt a caliper, a starter or an alternator for over 10 years (I did do a carb year ago). That said, I would rebuild my own calipers if they went bad. It's quite easy to do -if you can still find a kit, and have a cylinder hone.


Sounds odd, but I soaked the old caliper in a big bucket of hot water and laundry detergent. The detergent did an excellent job of degreasing overnight, and it was harmless to the caliper alloy/O-rings. It worked like a charm.

- Mike


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## 02BMW530 (Nov 19, 2010)

Emission said:


> Sounds odd, but I soaked the old caliper in a big bucket of hot water and laundry detergent. The detergent did an excellent job of degreasing overnight, and it was harmless to the caliper alloy/O-rings. It worked like a charm.
> 
> - Mike


And the interior was awash in Fresh Meadow scent every time you braked. 

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## bmw_n00b13 (Feb 15, 2008)

I rebuilt all my calipers and replaced my brake lines recently. If the pistion is ok, the job is simple, but fr the cost of the part, often rebuilt calipers are a better option especially if there's a risk the piston is corroded. Many are.


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