# Repost from F30: 328d drivetrain malfunction (hpfp)



## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

Long time lurker here but first time poster to express my concern and experience. Last Nov 18, i took my car for tthe regular service and everything went amooth, brought the car back home after the service and didn't drive until morning of Nov. 19. After only less than a mile, i went to limp mode due to drivetrain malfunction. Went back home and drove my other to work and called bmw regarding that. Whwn i get home in the afternoon, the car won't start and it won't even turn to nuetral so i called their towing service to pick up the car. They even dropped off my loanwr in the house. The next day, i found iut that the car has hpfp problem and it was backordered. Got a call today that my car has a broken injector due to mu auxiallary pump is broken and all the fuel lines have particles and debris, hpfp broke again, main injector pump. The gears of the auxillary pump broke and it suck up all the debris all the way to the engine. According to he service advisor it will be sent to BMW main to check if they want to fix it and he mentioned that in order to fix it will coat alot of money. My concerns right now is:

1. Can that be fixed and at what cost, fyi, its a brand new car, only six months old with 19k miles.

2. Will BMW ask me if I want a buy back or should I lemon it?

3. What offer should I take if they don't want to fix the car?

Thank you


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

This sounds alarmingly similar to the problem VW common rail diesels have been having since being introduced here in 2009. Its a pretty expensive fix (around $6k for VW), but should definitely be covered under warranty unless you misfueled with gasoline. I don't know why they wouldn't repair it.

Lemon laws vary by state. Please put your location in your information that appears under your user name.

Welcome to the 'Fest, but I wish it were under better circumstances.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

How do metallic parts from an auxiliary pump make it through the filter?


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## LarryboysUDM (Sep 18, 2012)

Unfortunate your car has HPFP problem.
If anyone can fix it, BMW can. Why worry about the cost if it's under warranty?
Lemon it if it meets your State lemon law otherwise let BMW buy it back if they offer.
They have to fix it since it's under warranty.
Hope it works out for you, good luck.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

*328d Drivetrain malfunction @19k 10 miles after service*

They replaced HPFP today, started the engine and HPFP broke again. They found out that the auxiliary pump in the fuel tank was broken into pieces which resulted to metal shaving was left in the tank that took out the HPFP again, the SA sent the issue to bmw to check if they want to replace all the injectors, fuel lines, pump in the tank and clean out the tank. Btw, they don't even know the extent of damage in the engine there's any.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

The service advisor told me that it came from gears of the auxiliary pump in the fuel tank. I hinestly dunno how either. He just left me a message and when I called back, he was gone. I will talk to him tomorrow and probably ask for a printout of whatever happened. All I know is they submitted a PUMA case already before he left the dealership.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

d geek said:


> This sounds alarmingly similar to the problem VW common rail diesels have been having since being introduced here in 2009. Its a pretty expensive fix (around $6k for VW), but should definitely be covered under warranty unless you misfueled with gasoline. I don't know why they wouldn't repair it.
> 
> Lemon laws vary by state. Please put your location in your information that appears under your user name.
> 
> Welcome to the 'Fest, but I wish it were under better circumstances.


That's pretty expensive if i'll be out of my warranty. I didn't misfueled. Lol. I checked his voicemail again and I figured out that he send a PUMA case before he left the dealership. Will this be a reccurring problem if they can fix it on time? I hope I can lemon this vehicle and I will just lease and not purchase BMW anymore. I live in Valencia,CA. I know my
Mileage is 1k miles more than the 18k limit of California lemon law but if the car is warrantied up to 50k miles, can I still file it if they can't fix it within 30 days?


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

dotmike24 said:


> They replaced HPFP today, started the engine and HPFP broke again. They found out that the auxiliary pump in the fuel tank was broken into pieces which resulted to metal shaving was left in the tank that took out the HPFP again, the SA sent the issue to bmw to check if they want to replace all the injectors, fuel lines, pump in the tank and clean out the tank. Btw, they don't even know the extent of damage in the engine there's any.


This doesn't make sense. I would think if the fuel pump in the tank was broken then the car should not start.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

I forgot to add that the Bosch HPFP used in the 328d is the same one used by VW for their 4cyl diesels. This was something I was concerned about when BMW introduced their small diesel. Fingers crossed that this is a one-off occurrence and not something that we will see cropping up more and more as this model ages here in the states. 

I don't know the lemon law in California, but from what I've read in most states the car has to be in the shop x number of days or y number of incidents in a given period.


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## Hill (Jul 16, 2009)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> This doesn't make sense. I would think if the fuel pump in the tank was broken then the car should not start.


The in-tank pump could be only a "lift pump" arrangement that relieves the load on the main injection pump. As such it could fail and the vehicle start and run although the injection pump would be pulling fuel all the way from the tank and thereby be overworked.

This from experiences with post -1997 Dodge diesel systems which had a host of problems at first that were associated with pumps being better suited to push fuel than to pull fuel. The lift pump got the fuel from the tank and pushed it to the injection pump which then pushed it to the injection circuit. Dodge's early auxiliary pumps when the change to electronic fuel pumps weren't up to the job.

If this is actually the problem with OP's car then it sounds to me like BMW is continuing it's use of plastic impellers in fuel pumps and that's never good news.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

I honestly don't know if you can turn the vehicle if your auxiliary fuel pump is broken. I was able to talk to my service advisor this morning and he told me that metal particles came from the brass that was part of the auxiliary pump. They need to replace the fuel tank, all fuel lines, and hpfp. And he believe that engine is not damaged. I'm not sure about this and to top it off, i only drove 10 miles after they did a regular service on my car.do you think that they did something wrong during the service? Is this constitute to be a lemon car coz hobestly i just want to change the car already. Its been there for 21 days.


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## A8540TDI (Jan 2, 2011)

This sounds like a possible mis-fueling - does your dealer fill up the car when sent in for service? If yes, they could have introduced gas into the tank which would account for the problem occurring almost immediately after the service was performed. If they did put gas in the car, you possibly have two choices, demand that they buy it back (may work) or, have them replace everything needed to get the metal bits out of the fuel system. I tend to doubt the engine itself was damaged, so if everything is replaced it should run well again. Good luck; let us know how the problem was resolved.


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

21 days - wow that's a long time to sit at BMW.

Check with a lemon law attorney locally for their interpretation of the law.

I don't think their prior repair had anything to do with the problem now.

Is this car being repaired fully under BMW warranty ??


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

That's exactly what i was thinking, they might put gasoline by mistake and never told me. How should i proceed a buy back? Should i wait for the 30 days to pass by or use a lawyer for lemon? I honestly want to replace it already especially if they are the one that broke it.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

Pat_X5 said:


> 21 days - wow that's a long time to sit at BMW.
> 
> Check with a lemon law attorney locally for their interpretation of the law.
> 
> ...


Yes, it's being repaired under BMW warranty. The hpfp was backordered for 20 days and they received it yesterday and install it. When they fire up the engine, it broke again including the whole fuel line and my tank. Do you guys think that the hofp replacement will be 20 days backordered again? I will ask for a printout this afternoon and i will post here to ask for opinion. Thanks.


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## A8540TDI (Jan 2, 2011)

dotmike24 said:


> That's exactly what i was thinking, they might put gasoline by mistake and never told me. How should i proceed a buy back? Should i wait for the 30 days to pass by or use a lawyer for lemon? I honestly want to replace it already especially if they are the one that broke it.


Check your paperwork from the service done just before the problem started. See if there is anything that says they "filled up" the car. If yes, have them do a fuel analysis to see if they put gas in the tank. It is easy for them to mix up a 328d with a 328i and the guys that do the fueling aren't always on the ball. If the fueling is on the paperwork, I think you have them dead to rights on a buyback although I'm not sure what the laws might say, so maybe fixing the problem is acceptable. The fact that the replacement HPFP failed immediately after installation adds to the mis-fueling possibility. Sounds like the dealership doesn't have much diesel experience.


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## Hoooper (Jun 17, 2013)

It's not a lemon. They have had only one chance to fix it so far. If after the second attempt they can't get it done, you can start talking about a lemon, but realistically it wont be considered a lemon unless they replace everything at least twice and it still comes back. Just give them a chance to fix it now that they see that a halfway fix isn't going to do it.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

I will check the last service paperwork when i get home. Thank you. I will keep you guys posted. The service adviser called me and told me that he opened a PUMA case since this is an expensive repair that needs approval. Thanks for the info regarding the lemon. It might be in the shop for a few weeks again since all of the parts are back ordered. I'm not a fan of this waiting game. Thanks guy.


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## Hill (Jul 16, 2009)

dotmike24 said:


> I will check the last service paperwork when i get home. Thank you. I will keep you guys posted. The service adviser called me and told me that he opened a PUMA case since this is an expensive repair that needs approval. Thanks for the info regarding the lemon. It might be in the shop for a few weeks again since all of the parts are back ordered. I'm not a fan of this waiting game. Thanks guy.


I'd sure like to know the real story about all the waiting for repairs. "It has to be shipped from Germany" gets pretty tired sounding when most foriegn makes have elaborate supply chains that include warehousing of parts within their market areas so as to expedite repairs under warranty or not, and this opening of review procedures that must be completed while the customer awaits the decision is bunk. I suppose the rationale is that the customer should have no issue with extended times to completion since in most cases a substitute vehicle is provided for their use.

I was part of a GM warranty location for almost ten years. The repair actions were listed, coded, and updated regularly in a guidebook for the use of repair stations. The repair personnel could look up the complaint or failed part and know instantly if the failure was covered, do the repair, and submit the correct paperwork for reimbursement of costs after the customer was back on the road. The overall plan worked to satisfy the customer first and deal with the procedurals afterwards.


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## Ruggernaut (Apr 25, 2014)

Many years ago, I went through the lemon issue with a Chevy Astro van. It had an engine vibration issue that they could not resolve. 
In my case, the dealer was very much on my side against GM. Getting a buy back is very difficult and may take much longer than you might want. In my case I contacted the Zone Rep for Chevrolet and went all the way to Detroit. 
In the end, they told me to find a replacement new vehicle that I liked. It was actually at another dealership. They shipped it in and did a change of collateral on my loan agreement. I walked away with a new, and better equipped, replacement vehicle. My wife drove that van to over 100k miles with no problems. 
Hang in there and be firm but reasonable. I have worked with customers all my life. I do everything I can for the ones that are reasonable. I do everything I HAVE TO for the ones that aren't.


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

dotmike24 said:


> Good news, BMW will be repurchasing my vehicle, I have a choice to replace it with A different BMW car or they will cut me a check. I need help regarding their repurchase procedure. I paid around $5k already but I used $19k miles already. I live in california. How much do you think they will deduct or I will still owe them?


Not familiar with the procedure (thank goodness), but be glad they are. Best bet to estimate would be use a used car value estimation program on edmunds, cars.com, Kelly Blue Book or similar site. You'll get a few different estimates, resale value, dealer trade-inn value, and private party resale value. Not sure which BMWNA offers. They should buy it back at replacement cost to you, which would be resale value, but I'm betting they lowball that some and are closer to dealer trade in value.


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## Ruggernaut (Apr 25, 2014)

That's great news. Now for the bargaining to begin. 

It should be to your advantage to get another car. If they will get you in one for their cost, you won't have to let them make profit on you again. If you take a check, you still need to buy a car and there you are being a profit center again. 

Every manufacturer has a percentage of vehicles that are less than perfect. If the stars go haywire, too many of those bad parts windup on the same car. It happened to me, as I posted before, but the replacement was a better vehicle that gave us years of service. The pain and suffering you've been through should be worth something. Now you get to see if the dealer you selected is worthy of your trust and will help you in your negotiations with BMW. 

I'll watch with great interest.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

Thank you for all the information you guys are giving me. If they'll lowball me if they'll repurchase the car, I will choose the replacement option. I'm waiting for their offer, since it's the weekend, I need to wait until monday before I can hear from them. Should I order a new built from them (2105 328d) or should I get a 2014 535d?


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## Hill (Jul 16, 2009)

The bit about usage - how many presumably happy miles of use you realized from the car only applies in the case of a Lemon Law which is supposed to restore the buyer to a point prior to the vehicle becoming problematic. 

Your repurchase arrangement is an entirely different thing that has to do with the valuation of your used car.


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## dotmike24 (Dec 2, 2014)

I finally got an answer from BMWNA, they offer me what California Lemon Law mandates. One last question. If I sign this document, can I still drive this car until they'll pick it up? How about the extra mileage that I will accrue beyond the mileage I signed that stated when my I brought in the car? Will they charge me for the extra miles that I will drive the car?


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## mrkalpakkam (Sep 9, 2014)

Got drivetrain malfunction, they said it is due to some issue with turbo booster. Fine for couple of weeks and now taking it in again for drivetrain malfunction. Fingers crossed..


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## bcsan (Apr 11, 2014)

Hmm I think you should've started a new thread since the hpfp and turbo is completely different.


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