# Opinions on V8 in next-gen M3



## Jay (Mar 28, 2003)

Seneca said:


> I would like your feedback on whether BMW should put a V8 in the next generation M3.
> 
> I would welcome an M3 V8 as long as it is not much heavier than the current inline-six.


Personally I prefer a gasoline V8 engine in my passenger cars, so I would go for it in a minute. Probably the only way I would trade my existing M3 for another one (M4) is if the next version gets a V8.

The BMW model most likely to replace my M3 is the upcoming 6-series, and the V8 has a lot to do with that.

Jay


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I think the V8 is the natural progression coming from the market place. I don't think weight will be a problem an aluminum V8 won't be much heavier than the six...maybe lighter. If I remember right, Tom Milner said the M5 motor in the M3 was only about 25 lbs heavier.

I have to say also that I owned an E30 M3 for 110k miles and it was a fabulous car. The E46 M3 that I have now is heavier true, but it's also just an amazing car with a great engine. The problems of the S54 engine should not be an issue. They were short lived and are correctable.


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## rte6six (Sep 1, 2003)

A m3 with a v8 would be great.

The marketing guys will love this ....
I think that the v8 m3 should be introduced as a pure sports car with absolutely no options (thus, keeping the price at a bare minimum) for the racer community. However, a full complement of options should be offered for the older crowd (like me) who wants a cabrio luxo-cruiser that goes like hell. This way bmw serves both groups equally and every one in between while make a ton of $.


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## Seneca (Feb 13, 2003)

Thanks for all your great feedback, you guys. I am planning to include several of your comments in a sidebar that will be in the Roundel article.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Seneca said:


> Thanks for all your great feedback, you guys. I am planning to include several of your comments in a sidebar that will be in the Roundel article.


Besure to mention Bimmerfest David. :thumbup:


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## Seneca (Feb 13, 2003)

The HACK said:


> Besure to mention Bimmerfest David. :thumbup:


Will do. I'll include the website address also.


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## jeffnnj (Feb 6, 2003)

Hmmmmm....Interesting point but then what motor would they use in the M6, assuming they follow up the 6 series with an ///M version??


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

jeffnnj said:


> Hmmmmm....Interesting point but then what motor would they use in the M6, assuming they follow up the 6 series with an ///M version??


The new M5 and M6 will use the 5 liter Motorsports V-10.


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## Ajax (Feb 1, 2002)

The HACK said:


> The new M5 and M6 will use the 5 liter Motorsports V-10.


And be priced WAYYYYY out of my league....unfortunately

:bawling:


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## jeffnnj (Feb 6, 2003)

LSB said:


> And be priced WAYYYYY out of my league....unfortunately
> 
> :bawling:


Any idea if and when there is going to be an ///M6 convertible??


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

The HACK said:


> The new M5 and M6 will use the 5 liter Motorsports V-10.


The trouble with this will come about if they intend to race the M6, which I assume they will. Porsche will go berserk if they show up with a 5L V-10. Now Porsche has their V-10, but I don't think they intend to race it. The crying could start all over again. They may offer the V-10, but I suspect a V-8 will be in there. If only to make the car available to a wider group of customers.


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

SteveT said:


> The trouble with this will come about if they intend to race the M6, which I assume they will. Porsche will go berserk if they show up with a 5L V-10. Now Porsche has their V-10, but I don't think they intend to race it. The crying could start all over again. They may offer the V-10, but I suspect a V-8 will be in there. If only to make the car available to a wider group of customers.


If BMW wanted to race the new 6er (which I doubt they will) they would probably not run it in GT (or whatever class the 911s run in).

The new 6er will be introduced with the N62 as the 645. The M6 will have the V10- and is not intended to be "available to a wider group of customers."


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Bruce said:


> If BMW wanted to race the new 6er (which I doubt they will) they would probably not run it in GT (or whatever class the 911s run in).
> 
> The new 6er will be introduced with the N62 as the 645. The M6 will have the V10- and is not intended to be "available to a wider group of customers."


Why wouldn't they run it in GT? If they think they can beat Porsche with it, they will. They want to beat Porsche, without a doubt. BMW has a long history of racing the 6 series. Just not recently, cause there hasn't been a 6. They could have put the M3 GTR in GTS, but they aren't interested in racing Corvettes and Vipers. If they are locked into a V-10 M6 thought, you might be right and they might not race it.


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## Bruce (Dec 24, 2001)

SteveT said:


> Why wouldn't they run it in GT? If they think they can beat Porsche with it, they will. They want to beat Porsche, without a doubt. BMW has a long history of racing the 6 series. Just not recently, cause there hasn't been a 6. They could have put the M3 GTR in GTS, but they aren't interested in racing Corvettes and Vipers. If they are locked into a V-10 M6 thought, you might be right and they might not race it.


I don't think they will run it because not everyone will be able to buy a 6 series (IIRC the projected base of the 645 is near 70k). Win on Sunday sell on Monday just isn't as applicable as it is the the 3 series. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

There's little incentive for *BMW* to run the M5 or M6 in competition. The engine is already a derivative of the F1 engine that they currently run...So in essence it's already race proven.

If they run either car in Le Mans or ALMS, they'd be classed against the Ferrari's, Vipers, and Vettes due to displacement, of which competitiveness is hard to guaranteed, and BMW would have a lot of work to catch up.

Which isn't to say that no privateers will run either machines. I think the M6 will be quite competitive in GT in Speed World Challenge or the Grand AM series, although what class they'd be in is a big question.

If BMW really want to champion a car in any of the racing series, they should develope an MZ4 coupe...Lighter, stiffer, and faster than any of the competition will ever see.


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## ccharmen (Oct 24, 2003)

BMW should make 2 M3 versions for the new generation. One regular and onle like an Evo version (somewhat simillar) like the old school M3.

Regualr M3: For average M3 driver with V8

EVO 2 Style: For M3 Fanatics that will pay the premium (limited edition)
a V8 + Evo style (race ready): suspension (very low to the ground), swaybars (front/rears), wide & low profile tires, light weight race seats, CSL light weight parts, more aggresive body, huge drilled roators, ......all raced out so there wouldnt be any incentive to add additional mods  -best of all it would be all covered under BMW warranty 

...Maybe its a bit overboard but would be nice


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

ccharmen said:


> BMW should make 2 M3 versions for the new generation. One regular and onle like an Evo version (somewhat simillar) like the old school M3.
> 
> Regualr M3: For average M3 driver with V8
> 
> ...


They already do that. The M3 GTR *is* available for public purchase, and they do supply it to privateers as well.

Just not for public purchase in the United States.


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## Seneca (Feb 13, 2003)

The HACK said:


> There's little incentive for *BMW* to run the M5 or M6 in competition. The engine is already a derivative of the F1 engine that they currently run...So in essence it's already race proven.
> 
> I asked Boris Said a couple of months ago if he had any hopes of racing an M6 at Le Mans, and he commented that BMW had no intention of racing the M6. Not sure how much he's kept in the loop on those things, but he seemed pretty certain.


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## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Seneca said:


> I asked Boris Said a couple of months ago if he had any hopes of racing an M6 at Le Mans, and he commented that BMW had no intention of racing the M6. Not sure how much he's kept in the loop on those things, but he seemed pretty certain.


I'm sure he's in the loop. If BMW plans on racing the M5/M6 in LeMans Team PTG and Team Schnitzer would already be working furiously at a vehicle, or at least gotten some advance notice of it.

They never raced the E39 M5 too, despite how competitive it COULD have been. Not likely to race the E60 M5 and M6 either.

Also, the crowd that would buy an M5 or M6 probably wouldn't care much about BMW's success in racing either of these cars. The target audience for 3 series, on the other hand, would be impressed with wins on the track.

Man I am jealous that you get to talk to guys like Said. I was at Laguna Seca and only managed a brief exchange and a quick picture with him and my friend Doeboy. Would've loved to sit down with him and chat.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I don't think it's a matter of needing an "incentive" to race the M6 inorder to prove the engine under racing conditions. It's more competing and having a reasonable chance of success. Right now Porsche has the advantage with a bigger engine and better aerodynamics. The M3 has a better balance and can be successful where handling is more important as we've seen at Sears Point. The 4L V8 in the GTR was intended to be just a bit larger than the engine in the GT3 cars. Otherwise they could have created an M3 with the M5 motor similar to the car PTG built and still races in GrandAm. That would have been a 5L V8 and just too big of a step up.

The market for the cars could play a role. There are people who drive M5's who follow racing, it's not just 3 Series people. Boris might be right, but I don't know if it's ever that absolute. If they see a package that can be successful and a place where it can fit, there's always a chance.

I was thinking that they had raced the M6 in the 80's Touring Car racing, but it was the 635CSi. The car that became the M6 shortly there after. The late 80's and early 90's became the E30 M3's time. I've attached a picture of the Schnitzer 635.


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