# death to automatics



## Maximus57 (May 13, 2005)

Do you guy's have any numbers on failures of the steptronic vs manual? (yes I did a search) 

Didn't see any numbers of failures or problems. I would assume higher on auto, but I would still like to see some stats. Not some made up BS or a guess.


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## MR325iT (Feb 21, 2002)

When I ordered my 325 wagon they looked at me kinda funny. "Did you say 'manual'?". "Yup". "A manual wagon?". "Yup". "OK".

They must have thought I was on the lunatic fringe, and that I'd decline to pick up the car when it was delivered.

Much as I dislike automatics, that new Audi/VW DSG is an interesting alternative. Need to go drive one.

Re the comments about Acura - if the TL or TSX came with RWD, I would find a way to exit my wife's lease in a heartbeat. Even with FWD, the TSX is a fun little car (haven't driven the TL, though).


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## crash8168 (May 26, 2004)

Americans tend to buy automatics, excepting the people here. Because the automatic appeals to a wider audience than the stick you see more of them. Personally i like both and really dont care which i drive, but then i can fix either so it really makes no difference.


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

apar330i said:


> Integra's are solid cars. I owned one for 13 years, put 126K miles on it, and never replaced the clutch. I did have to replace the CV joints though. Those damn rubber boots wore out and lost all the grease. Other than that the car was bullet proof.


 I had one of the original 1986 Integras which I passed down to my wife then sold it in 1993. I saw it about six months ago, a but rusted but still running.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

vexed said:


> I had one of the original 1986 Integras which I passed down to my wife then sold it in 1993. I saw it about six months ago, a but rusted but still running.


Is it rusting where the rear fender/quarter panel meets the bumper?


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

elbert said:


> Is it rusting where the rear fender/quarter panel meets the bumper?


 Yes:yikes:


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

Plaz said:


> True... my CRX had a great shifter.
> 
> Unfortunately, Honda also knows torque steer. A little too well.


You should drive an S2000, you'll never be the same!

Ed


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

EdCT said:


> You should drive an S2000, you'll never be the same!
> 
> Ed


my potential next car! the only thing holding me back is the convertible bit.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

Optimus Prime said:


> Why are so many vehicles not-equiped with manual transmissions on dealer lots? Or worse yet, no manual tranny is even offered.


Don't you notice that manual tranny is actually coming back compared to that a few years ago? It is offered by more manufacturers now. The sad part is no dealer is willing to stock them. You pretty much need to order one. When I ordered my X3 a few weeks ago, I asked the dealer to do a seach for the 6sp, and out of thousands of inventory, it came out only 1 available in the entire country, including Hawaii and Alaska. Can you believe this?


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## AB (Jan 11, 2002)

Because I would venture the majority of U.S. drivers think of a vehicle as a mode of transportation to get from Point A to Point B. They couldn't care less about vehicle performance and would prefer the most convenient way to travel.

Nothing wrong with that. :dunno:


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## THEOLDMAN (Jan 25, 2005)

I don't know how many times I've read this, "It's so hard to drive a manual in traffic." or "I live where there are a lot of hills and I can't have a stick." Granted it's a pain in the ass, but I would still have a manual. I had to order my Dakota Pickup to get the stick in it, eventhough it's the standard transmission. I used it in my business and the dealer had a fit "You have to take what we have". No I don't. If a car is offered only in an automatic my wife and I will pass on it, just like we pass on any car with more than two doors. We would get into a two seater but we need room for our dog, STARR a 2 year old 90# White German Shepherd.


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## Optimus Prime (Nov 11, 2003)

mkh said:


> Don't you notice that manual tranny is actually coming back compared to that a few years ago? It is offered by more manufacturers now.


I have noticed. It seems that younger car buyers (like myself) see a manual tranny as sporting and an indication of driving prowess. A number of newer cars in the under $25K market are getting manuals and you can find them on the lots. My wife's Mazda 6S was fully loaded with a manual on the lot. That's still a hard find, because people that generally pay for a fully loaded vehicle still want a slushbox.

I'm still surprised by the lack of manuals for full-size pick-ups though. :dunno:


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## AB (Jan 11, 2002)

THEOLDMAN said:


> I don't know how many times I've read this, "It's so hard to drive a manual in traffic." or "I live where there are a lot of hills and I can't have a stick." Granted it's a pain in the ass, but I would still have a manual.


I drive a 6 speed manual and LOVE it, but if I lived in a city with horrible traffic and a stop and go commute, I would much rather have an automatic.


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## toshweir27 (Jan 4, 2002)

MrAirbags said:


> I drive a 6 speed manual and LOVE it, but if I lived in a city with horrible traffic and a stop and go commute, I would much rather have an automatic.


I actually prefer the 6 spd manual in my car in the horrible Chicago traffic I participate in. I'm not riding the brake constantly for my 25 mile commute each morning and i feel that I have much more control. I have never felt that the manual was a burden in traffic.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

vexed said:


> Yes:yikes:


Check it out: just about every Honda older than 10 years will have rust in that area, ranging from a couple blisters under the paint to actual holes.


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

MrAirbags said:


> I drive a 6 speed manual and LOVE it, but if I lived in a city with horrible traffic and a stop and go commute, I would much rather have an automatic.


I wouldnt drive a Bimmer stick in traffic day in and day out -- throws are too long and clutch has too much travel (I know...get a clutch stop). I dont mind it otherwise.

But a Honda/Acura stick is so easy and snick-snick that I wouldnt mind it even in daily bumper to bumper traffic.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

blueguydotcom said:


> my god man, that is crazy. why not buy a second car for the weekend? seriously...it seems difficult and expensive to mess with your car's tranny that way.


Yeah, I know... carazy... I plan on ordering an M3 here shortly... that may happen instead... I don't know. Then I'll build the 330 to what I think it should be, as an a... a... automatic... man, that's hard to say.


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

toshweir27 said:


> I actually prefer the 6 spd manual in my car in the horrible Chicago traffic I participate in. I'm not riding the brake constantly for my 25 mile commute each morning and i feel that I have much more control. I have never felt that the manual was a burden in traffic.


yes, i agree. whenever i read someone post that traffic is a reason for them driving an auto, chances are 99% that they're either a poseur who doesn't know how to drive stick and still wants to make it look like they would have gotten a stick except for the traffic or really sucks at driving manual.


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

LA525iT said:


> I wouldnt drive a Bimmer stick in traffic day in and day out -- throws are too long and clutch has too much travel (I know...get a clutch stop). I dont mind it otherwise.
> 
> But a Honda/Acura stick is so easy and snick-snick that I wouldnt mind it even in daily bumper to bumper traffic.


actually you can keep a 3 in 2nd down to about 2 mph and up to about 60. no clutch. I used to do it when i had to drive in bad bumper-to-bumper.


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## AB (Jan 11, 2002)

blueguydotcom said:


> actually you can keep a 3 in 2nd down to about 2 mph and up to about 60. no clutch. I used to do it when i had to drive in bad bumper-to-bumper.


I like getting to about 75 mph in 2nd


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## miamiz3 (Aug 22, 2004)

*Manual In Miami?*

stickshift drivers in southflorida,have more musclemass on the left leg.very noticeable at the beach.ha ha ha


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

MrAirbags said:


> I like getting to about 75 mph in 2nd


We used to call that an "italian tune-up" 

Ed


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

toshweir27 said:


> I have never felt that the manual was a burden in traffic.


 :stupid:

All the automatic permits is laziness.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

SpeedFreak! said:


> I'm certainly not saying that there is any logic in it... in fact, I said it was quite insane. I was only stating that to be told the car will have a higher resale value and sell faster is true. I agree with you 100%. The manual will always be far more fun to drive... as well as not paying for something you don't want. I do enjoy driving my Auto... immensely... but there isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish there had been a manual available when I bought my car. In fact... I have already priced the conversion. I will probably do it at some point. :thumbup:
> Imagine that... paying for a tranny I could have had for "free" in the first place. :tsk:


E36 M3's with slushies sell for way less than its stick counter part.

So do Turbo's with tippy magic tronic.


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Optimus Prime said:


> I have noticed. It seems that younger car buyers (like myself) see a manual tranny as sporting and an indication of driving prowess. A number of newer cars in the under $25K market are getting manuals and you can find them on the lots. My wife's Mazda 6S was fully loaded with a manual on the lot. That's still a hard find, because people that generally pay for a fully loaded vehicle still want a slushbox.
> 
> I'm still surprised by the lack of manuals for full-size pick-ups though. :dunno:


One of my client special ordered his Chevy Silverado with 5 speed.

Him and I mercilessly tease his poor office mate who had to get a slushie 545 because the wife couldn't drive stick.

He should have at least gotten the SSG.


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## dallasfan824 (Nov 21, 2004)

I have an auto with step because an stick is not practical in southern california.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

dallasfan824 said:


> stick is not practical in southern california.


 :tsk:


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## EdCT (Mar 14, 2002)

I think it all depends on the car, an S2000 with the slick Honda 6 speed is a jewel, there is no current production car that I've driven that matches its rifle-action smoothness and snickety-ness.

BMW's, otoh, don't have the most pleasant feeling manual trannies, imo, also, the clutches are heavy and feature a long throw (durable though they may be), for the bimmer, especially a 330i with 250 hp in its newest incarnation, it'd be the step for me. In fact, with my E46, I can launch the crap out of the thing in manual mode by leaving it in M1 and letting it shift on its own to 2nd, which it'll do at redline - the car just takes off (as I found out at last week's test and tune day, the first really fast times I've put in this autox season thus far, too bad it didn't count  ). 

Cars on my shopping list to replace the E46 and the tranny preference for each:

E90; Step (I've driven it, it kicks).

S2000; 6-speed manual (the only way it comes).

Corvette C6; auto (with a torque-monster of a V8, why not?).

NC3 Miata MX5; stick (the only way to go with a small four cylinder).

Different cars, different choices.

Ed


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

Plaz said:


> :tsk:


:stupid:


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

dallasfan824 said:


> I have an auto with step because an stick is not practical in southern california.


:rofl: :rofl:

You probably can't drive stick. There are tons of people on this board along who live in Southern California, drive in LA traffic daily, in their stick shifts. :dunno:

Sticks are easier to drive in traffic than autos, unless you don't really know how to drive stick shifts to begin with. It is way easier to let the car idle forward in 1st then to keep your damn foot on the brakes and ride it. 

And yes, I know, I drive my Turbo and my 325is in LA traffic, the 405, the 101, the 110, the 134. It's not that big of a deal, and I never would think of neutering either car by sticking a power sapping slushie in it. :bigpimp:


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

EdCT said:


> I think it all depends on the car, an S2000 with the slick Honda 6 speed is a jewel, there is no current production car that I've driven that matches its rifle-action smoothness and snickety-ness.
> 
> BMW's, otoh, don't have the most pleasant feeling manual trannies, imo, also, the clutches are heavy and feature a long throw


Heavy clutch is much better than these new sh*t for feel soft arse clutches that afflict all new cars regardless of brands. 

My 325is, a 17 year old car, has a clutch that is heavy, that grabs at the exact same spot every time, that just frigging goes as soon as it grabs. THe E36 M3 is almost as good. The E46 sucks in comparison, so does the Turbo.


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Stuka said:


> Heavy clutch is much better than these new sh*t for feel soft arse clutches that afflict all new cars regardless of brands.
> 
> My 325is, a 17 year old car, has a clutch that is heavy, that grabs at the exact same spot every time, that just frigging goes as soon as it grabs. THe E36 M3 is almost as good. The E46 sucks in comparison, so does the Turbo.


I prefer my light wrx clutch over the heavier 325 clutch(not heavy toyou
 ) dont have problems with engagement points on the rex 

begin :soapbox: 
edit: I am with EdCt. I am not impressed with our e46 transmission, clutch feels terrible and engagement point seems sloppy(with CDV removed too), stick has long throws and it feels like I am shifting from the passenger seat( as is stick is way to far over the right and angled wrong).

end :soapbox:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Jeff_DML said:


> begin :soapbox:
> edit: I am with EdCt. I am not impressed with our e46 transmission, clutch feels terrible and engagement point seems sloppy(with CDV removed too), stick has long throws and it feels like I am shifting from the passenger seat( as is stick is way to far over the right and angled wrong).
> 
> end :soapbox:


Amen.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Clutch stop and an SSK does wonders for feel in an E46. Truly necessary mods, IMO.


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Jeff_DML said:


> I prefer my light wrx clutch over the heavier 325 clutch(not heavy toyou
> ) dont have problems with engagement points on the rex
> 
> begin :soapbox:
> ...


Jeff,

My first E46 a 323i Sedan had a non-precise manual tranny, but my 328Ci was
much,, much better (a different gearbox altogether).

Not to hijack, but that Southern-Hemi ought to be hitting you guys down
there this evening..

:thumbup:


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## brkf (May 26, 2003)

Plaz said:


> Clutch stop and an SSK does wonders for feel in an E46. Truly necessary mods, IMO.


I believe the zhp has a ssk. still a lousy tranny, imho.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Stuka said:


> E36 M3's with slushies sell for way less than its stick counter part.
> 
> So do Turbo's with tippy magic tronic.


M cars are always the opposite. An auto is way bad (for those rare occasions when they have deviated from the norm) and manuals help resale. 
In regular 3 series... it flip flops. Autos sell for more... more quickly. :tsk:


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## Jeff_DML (Mar 13, 2002)

Jon said:


> Jeff,
> 
> My first E46 a 323i Sedan had a non-precise manual tranny, but my 328Ci was
> much,, much better (a different gearbox altogether).
> ...


yeah noticed that most people who complain about e46 MT have been 325 owners.

yeah planning on surfing oceanside this week, fun surf, hoping the water warmed back up. Where do you go for the souths? ventura or malibu?


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

blueguydotcom said:


> I believe the zhp has a ssk. still a lousy tranny, imho.


I think it just has a slightly shorter top lever. No comparison to an actual SSK, like a Rogue, B&M, or UUC.

My shifter felt like a butter churn stock, but now feels like a rifle bolt with the UUC.

:dunno:


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

blueguydotcom said:


> I believe the zhp has a ssk. still a lousy tranny, imho.


Even it is far from a true SSK, it's currently the best manual tranny (along with the Z4) you can get from BMW.


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