# 25k miles/yr - lease or buy 335i?



## luvdabass (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi all,

I am new to the forum. I currently drive a Honda, and I am looking to make the jump up.
I am considering doing a ED on a 335i M Sport. 

I currently drive about 25,000 miles per year for work, and I am just wondering if I should consider leasing, leasing and then buying at the end of the term, or just flat out buying.

I'm guessing buying would be the best alternative, but I am open to suggestions!

Thanks!


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## cha777 (Sep 19, 2006)

Buy, buy, buy! Lease only if you're doing 15k/yr or less.


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## Axxlrod (Oct 19, 2012)

cha777 said:


> Buy, buy, buy! Lease only if you're doing 15k/yr or less.


Not necessarily.

If you can write the lease off as biz expense then that will prolly be the better move.

You can buy extra miles for leases for nominal amounts or just negotiate out the extra mileage charge when you go to get your next car.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

Or lease now with the intent to purchase at the end of term so excess your miles become moot.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

No disrespect intended to other festers, but I am probably the most qualified to answer your question since I have actually done both. I drive 30k miles a year and have done high mileage lease as well as a buy. No one formula fits all situations. You need to look at the deal each way and do some math to figure out which is most cost effective. On my 535i it was a no brainer to do the finance since the rate was so low and lease terms not that great at the time. I am currently debating a 6 coupe or convertible and if I do it that will be a lease where I will do a 36/15 and buy the additional 45k miles for a total lease allowance of 90k miles. Generally speaking the more expensive the car the better it is to lease it rather than buy it. On a 335i it would be my opinion, taking into account rates and residuals, that buying and holding would be your best bet. Once you go over a 60-65k sales price the buy becomes less attractive and the high mileage lease becomes more attractive. Best thing you can do is run the math against your projected maintainance costs/repairs. Also, if you think you are going to do 25k miles a year on BMW's recommended maintainace schedule and have a good outcome...think again. If you buy you need to be preparing yourself for additional preventative maintainace and factoring in that cost as well. If you lease it has been my experience that the cars will easily go 100k miles on the bare minimal maintaince that BMW provides for "free". Another note, if you are leasing and you do mostly highway driving do not buy the extended maintaince or warranty. Chances are good you will have little, if any, cost outside of the 50k warranty ending period up to your lease termination around 75k miles. Lastly, I am not a fan of the idea of buying a 3 year old off lease BMW with 75k miles on it at lease end to avoid paying the excess mileage costs. I say go into the deal clear on what you are doing...lease or buy and stick to that plan.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> I am not a fan of the idea of buying a 3 year old off lease BMW with 75k miles on it at lease end to avoid paying the excess mileage costs.


But if he buys the car he still ends up owning a 3 year old car with 75K mi, no?

If I were OP I'd probably buy and sell it shortly after year 2


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## CAX5 (Feb 16, 2010)

Do a 2 Year Lease w/ 25000 miles per year. You will always be in Warranty, and have Free Maintenance.


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

:bawling:


CAX5 said:


> Do a 2 Year Lease w/ 25000 miles per year. You will always be in Warranty, and have Free Maintenance.


Alpine is the expert on this but I like the 2 year lease with 20k miles bought up front, they're 15 cents each and if you don't use them you get the money back. This way you pay no maintenance except tires and no repair bills. You don't have to worry about selling the car and you get a new one every 2 years so you're always driving new cars. It would be a good idea to start the lease in November or December when there are often good lease deals.


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## angler (Aug 12, 2008)

Lease, I drive 25k a year and lease. You pay 15 cents a mile for the extra miles. In my experience the depreciation of the car is more then 15 cents a mile after you get over 60 thousand miles on a car. I have leased for two years and three as well. Ether one would work for you IMO.


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## xi2d (Oct 25, 2009)

*Try 10k miles/year*

I commute 200 miles r/t 4x a week and lease for 2 years. Run the numbers and consider just contracting for 10k miles per year. You will put out less money upfront and, depending on the mileage, have some options near the end of the lease:

A. If you aren't upside down too much after factoring in wear and tear/mileage overage, see if a dealer will buy it out mid lease and and start over again.

B. If you qualify and the dealer agrees to buy it out, you can take advantage of a Pull ahead program and have some of the overage "forgiven" or "absorbed" in the new deal

C. You can purchase discounted miles, plus tax, mid lease up to 120 days prior to lease end, turn it in at the end, pay wear and tear and start over again.

D. You can buyout at lease end using the lower option (from SARAFIL's post in the other thread):

(a) residual -- which means there are no extra "fees" for mileage or wear-and-tear

(b) mileage-adjusted Manheim Market Value, and then adding back excess mileage and wear and tear fees

If you buy out the car under (b), and you are the original leasee, BMWFS also adds back a surcharge that is a percentage of the gap between (a) and (b)

You can also lease a 2nd commuter that gets you in the HOV lane solo and spread out the miles:thumb up:

Whatever you choose, you gotta pay to play.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

dkreidel said:


> But if he buys the car he still ends up owning a 3 year old car with 75K mi, no?
> 
> If I were OP I'd probably buy and sell it shortly after year 2


True, but I am operating under the assumption that the average buyer of a 3 year old off lease BMW is buying it with financing and doing a term of 48/60 months (this is what I was told usually happens). If one were to buy that 3 year old car and have it paid off in 24-36 months then maybe buying it would be ok.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

mclaren said:


> :bawling:
> 
> Alpine is the expert on this but I like the 2 year lease with 20k miles bought up front, they're 15 cents each and if you don't use them you get the money back. This way you pay no maintenance except tires and no repair bills. You don't have to worry about selling the car and you get a new one every 2 years so you're always driving new cars. It would be a good idea to start the lease in November or December when there are often good lease deals.


This is the most ideal route. However, assuming no crazy unexpected repairs the 36 month lease is usually much cheaper overall.


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## jagu (Nov 7, 2006)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> This is the most ideal route. However, assuming no crazy unexpected repairs the 36 month lease is usually much cheaper overall.


I think I'll do a 30 month lease on my next car because I drive 24k miles a year. It minimizes my exposure after the warranty since there will probably be a pull ahead program in place.


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## luvdabass (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks for the help guys. I am going to get offers on both, and see how it comes out.


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## mjsbmw (Jan 5, 2008)

If you drive between 25 to 30K a year, you might be better off buying a 1 -2 year old CPO and have coverage up to 100K. I have two friends that are in that situation and do the CPO and it has saved their respective butts. And the icing on the cake is that you do not have the 1st year (or 2nd year) heavy depreciation hit.


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## quackbury (Dec 17, 2005)

mclaren said:


> :bawling:
> 
> Alpine is the expert on this but I like the 2 year lease with 20k miles bought up front, they're 15 cents each and if you don't use them you get the money back. This way you pay no maintenance except tires and no repair bills. You don't have to worry about selling the car and you get a new one every 2 years so you're always driving new cars. It would be a good idea to start the lease in November or December when there are often good lease deals.


^^^ This...



mjsbmw said:


> If you drive between 25 to 30K a year, you might be better off buying a 1 -2 year old CPO and have coverage up to 100K. I have two friends that are in that situation and do the CPO and it has saved their respective butts. And the icing on the cake is that you do not have the 1st year (or 2nd year) heavy depreciation hit.


...or This ^^^

If you wanted to get a car out of inventory or take domestic delivery, I would say that either the 2 year lease or the CPO would be the way to go. However, you mentioned you wanted to do ED. Because of the way the lease payments are calculated on an ED, I will be surprised if the 2-year ED lease doesn't look better than the CPO. Plus you get exactly the options and color combination you want.


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## ductman (Dec 17, 2011)

In my scenario, I leased my X5 for 36/ 30k per year, I also took a 5/100k BMW powertrain Plus warranty, paid under 1700 for that , IMO, who wants to purchase , after all who would really want a 3 year old BMW with 90000 miles on it , the trade in value would be greatly diminished.


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## luvdabass (Jan 26, 2013)

Ductman,

Just curious - what was vehicle cost, and your monthly payment?


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## ductman (Dec 17, 2011)

luvdabass said:


> Ductman,
> 
> Just curious - what was vehicle cost, and your monthly payment?


My vehicle list was approx 63k, vehicle was the last 2011 Diesel on the lot ( Build date March
2011 ) Lease was done in December of 2011, vehicle price was approx 48k ( awesome deal)
Payments with 9% tax with just inceptions under 800 per month with 90000 miles as the allowable miles.


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## luvdabass (Jan 26, 2013)

Does anyone buy their leased vehicles at the end of the term? Do you just pay the remaining balance, or do you negotiate that down?


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

luvdabass said:


> Does anyone buy their leased vehicles at the end of the term? Do you just pay the remaining balance, or do you negotiate that down?


Those of us that do high mileage turn them in. Not worth it to buy them at lease end....


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## mclaren (Jan 5, 2005)

luvdabass said:


> Does anyone buy their leased vehicles at the end of the term? Do you just pay the remaining balance, or do you negotiate that down?


If you want to buy a leased vehicle you can go to BMWUSA.com and get a payoff quote at any time. At lease end you can buy the car for the residual or you can buy it from a dealer. The dealer can usually buy the car from BMWFS for less than the residual, often for much less. At this point the dealer can CPO the vehicle and sell it to you with an extended warranty or just sell it to you as is. If you have a good relationship with a dealer they will only charge you a small profit like $500 but the problem is you don't know what they actually paid making you vulnerable. Therefore I think you should take your car to Carmax and also get Manheim numbers so you will know approximately what the car is worth wholesale. If you buy from a dealer you are turning the car in so you will have to pay the lease disposition fee.


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## nepats81 (Aug 21, 2013)

Alpine300ZHP said:


> No disrespect intended to other festers, but I am probably the most qualified to answer your question since I have actually done both. I drive 30k miles a year and have done high mileage lease as well as a buy. No one formula fits all situations. You need to look at the deal each way and do some math to figure out which is most cost effective. On my 535i it was a no brainer to do the finance since the rate was so low and lease terms not that great at the time. I am currently debating a 6 coupe or convertible and if I do it that will be a lease where I will do a 36/15 and buy the additional 45k miles for a total lease allowance of 90k miles. Generally speaking the more expensive the car the better it is to lease it rather than buy it. On a 335i it would be my opinion, taking into account rates and residuals, that buying and holding would be your best bet. Once you go over a 60-65k sales price the buy becomes less attractive and the high mileage lease becomes more attractive. Best thing you can do is run the math against your projected maintainance costs/repairs. Also, if you think you are going to do 25k miles a year on BMW's recommended maintainace schedule and have a good outcome...think again. If you buy you need to be preparing yourself for additional preventative maintainace and factoring in that cost as well. If you lease it has been my experience that the cars will easily go 100k miles on the bare minimal maintaince that BMW provides for "free". Another note, if you are leasing and you do mostly highway driving do not buy the extended maintaince or warranty. Chances are good you will have little, if any, cost outside of the 50k warranty ending period up to your lease termination around 75k miles. Lastly, I am not a fan of the idea of buying a 3 year old off lease BMW with 75k miles on it at lease end to avoid paying the excess mileage costs. I say go into the deal clear on what you are doing...lease or buy and stick to that plan.


I leased a 435i for 36/15k. I am 8months in and already at 15k miles. Its likely ill go over 50k at this point before 36 months, unless there is some sort of pull ahead offer. How worried should I be with driving up to 60k without warranty coverage?


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

nepats81 said:


> I leased a 435i for 36/15k. I am 8months in and already at 15k miles. Its likely ill go over 50k at this point before 36 months, unless there is some sort of pull ahead offer. How worried should I be with driving up to 60k without warranty coverage?


I would not worry at all. I have gone way higher than 60k with no problems. Just drive your car and buy the needed miles through MAP.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

And if anything major does fail, just get it towed to the top of a hill and run it into a bridge abutment at the bottom.



Look, you can buy a warranty for those 4-8 months, like a 5/70k or something like that if you get freaked out when the time comes... Lots of people own cars without warranty and the earth keeps spinning.


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