# I'm Highly disappointed in BMW's



## alexamparo (Sep 16, 2005)

I'm on my second Bimmer. They've both given me problems to the extent that I wonder who the hell engineered these things. and yet I seem to keep getting BMWs...I guess they are just too beautiful to pass on. 

This post comes as my fathers 2000 528 with 91,000miles now needs a new head gasket? Yeah thats high miles...but not the time when i'd expect something as serious as a head gasket to go on a car with this prestige. 

It's actually kinda embarrasing...imagine this scenario

(So Alex, where's your really nice $40,000 BMW? ....Oh it's in the shop getting the head gasket replaced.....Oh wow, Headgasket huh...i've never replaced that on my Camry?)

A guy I know at work has a 2002 323 or 328 I don't know (it's debadged) and he just got his engine replaced under warranty b/c of a cracked block. WTF is that on a BMW???

My friends friend has a 2002 X5 that has a check engine light that has up to date cost him $2100 at the BMW dealer...and thelight still keeps coming out for different reasons apparently. 


These are not problems I would expect from these "luxury" cars. Maybe it's time the Germans to start calling in the masterminds that designed Toyotas JZ-GTE I-6 engines int he Supra and GS300 and learn something from them. My moms 1995 GS-300 has 161,000 miles last time I drove it and Nothing has gone wrong past a belt tensioner and the radios pixels going out. THE DAMN THING DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON!!! NOW THATS LUXURY ENGINEERING. 

All in all I still continue to plan on buying a new 750i next year. I guess I don't learn my lesson. 

Look at all the Consumer reports out there...BMWs are not reliable....Beautiful yes...but not reliable. 

Thats all I have to say....let the flaming begin


----------



## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

If maintenance is your primary concern, you would be much happier with a more trouble free car like honda, lexus, etc.

If you buy cars that push the limits of engineering, you know doubt have more problems than a basic car.

BMW's are not for everyone. 

All cars are mechanical a break in time.


----------



## Tangent (Jan 18, 2004)

Were you looking for this kind of response?


----------



## HGilmore (Oct 27, 2005)

Thats why leasing is the only way to go with all current generation BMR's.


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

I agree that BMW should do much a better job than they do. That being said, most of their problems usually have to do w/ electrical and cooling system components. In general, drivetrain components (except automatic transmissions) are usually pretty solid.

If your headgasket failed, my guess would be that one of BMW's notoriously bad thermostats or radiators failed on you and caused the engine to overheat-- thereby necessitating a new headgasket. No excuse for that-- but on BMWs the entire cooling system is a wear component meant to be replaced every 60k. 

You're right though, many of us keep coming back for more--so we're not furthering our cause. 

We hear about all sorts of problem onthis board-- but its very rare to hear about an engine problme. Thank god.


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Welcome to the Bimmerfest,

Which car is on the top of the list on the Consumer Reports? You should get it


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> If maintenance is your primary concern, you would be much happier with a more trouble free car like honda, lexus, etc.
> 
> If you buy cars that push the limits of engineering, you know doubt have more problems than a basic car.
> 
> ...


Maybe-- but it generally seems like the parts that break aren't really "pushing the limits of engineering". Window regulators, control arms, thermostats, etc aren't really the height of automotive technology.


----------



## 99flhr (Apr 12, 2005)

robg said:


> Maybe-- but it generally seems like the parts that break aren't really "pushing the limits of engineering". Window regulators, control arms, thermostats, etc aren't really the height of automotive technology.


 :thumbup: :rofl: :thumbup:


----------



## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

Your story can be found on Lexus, Audi, Mercedes, Cadiallac, boards, etc. as well

For me, although BMW has issues, they are far and few between in my case. If I was always at the shop, I would not buy them. I accept the fact they have issues from time to time. But to be honest, the car that gave me the most issues was my 91 Acura Legend.

On my 5th bimmer and never had the issues I did with the Acura.

No the Camry won't need a head gasket, but it will need a timing belt.

It only seems the grass is always greener. We want it all, but yet life is a compromise. 



robg said:


> I agree that BMW should do much a better job than they do. That being said, most of their problems usually have to do w/ electrical and cooling system components. In general, drivetrain components (except automatic transmissions) are usually pretty solid.
> 
> If your headgasket failed, my guess would be that one of BMW's notoriously bad thermostats or radiators failed on you and caused the engine to overheat-- thereby necessitating a new headgasket. No excuse for that-- but on BMWs the entire cooling system is a wear component meant to be replaced every 60k.
> 
> ...


----------



## HGilmore (Oct 27, 2005)

Lease, Lease, Lease


----------



## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

HGilmore said:


> Lease, Lease, Lease


Whether you lease or finance, the cost of the vehicle maintenance for the first 50k is factored in.

Subsequent costs (ou of warranty) are incurred for maintenance and repairs just like any other vehicle. If you want cheap repairs, buy a cheap car.

Leasing may reduce out of pocket expenses, but not the fact you have to go to the shop so much. What is your time worth? :dunno:


----------



## HGilmore (Oct 27, 2005)

chuck92103 said:


> leasing may reduce out of pocket expenses, but not the fact you have to go to the shop so much. What is your time worth? :dunno:


You go to the shop for repairs many more times over a 3 year period versus only once every three years to pick up your new car. Now what's your time worth?


----------



## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

HGilmore said:


> You go to the shop for repairs many more times over a 3 year period versus only once every three years to pick up your new car. Now what's your time worth?


This makes no sense.

Did you misunderstand me?

Whether you buy or lease, irrelevant.

If or when you car had issues you need to take it to the shop for repair. If you do this to much, it could be an issue for some. What is your time worth? :thumbup:


----------



## TLudwig (Mar 30, 2004)

chuck92103 said:


> No the Camry won't need a head gasket, but it will need a timing belt.


Camry's, like most (if not all) Toyotas, have used timing chains for at least the last five years. With Toyotas, you can pretty much weld the hood shut, but don't look for any driving excitement.


----------



## HGilmore (Oct 27, 2005)

chuck92103 said:


> This makes no sense.
> 
> Did you misunderstand me?
> 
> ...


Whether you buy or lease is relevant. If you are tired of taking your BMW to the shop for problems, when the lease is up, you simply drop the car off and walk away. Case closed!


----------



## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Just for info, my current E46 is three years old, not a single problem till yet, unlike my old E46 323ci, which had a bunch of parts (as mentioned by robg) replaced. Was it annoying? Yes. Would it trade it in for another car? No.


----------



## SPINJ (Jul 26, 2005)

*love it*

Thanks I needed that. :bareass:


----------



## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

HGilmore said:


> Lease, Lease, Lease


You are not going to get 96k out of a lease.


----------



## HGilmore (Oct 27, 2005)

Artslinger said:


> You are not going to get 96k out of a lease.


Who would want to own a current generation BMW w/96k on it, with the countless Idrive/nav problems being reported all over this and other boards?


----------



## woody underwood (Feb 9, 2004)

My buddy just sold a Camry that needed....a head gasket. So there! And it did not have really high mileage.


----------



## x54.4blue (Sep 17, 2005)

*Leasing Is the way to go*

If you have good credit and drive 12,000 to 15,000 miles a year leasing is the way to go.

New high teck cars all have a ton of systems that over time cause trouble.

My 1994 Camry was totally trouble free over the four years I leased it.

My 1998 Volvo V70 had real issues with check engine light and other issues but was I much nicer car. When the lease was over I was happy to return it. It was a great car to drive but it had lots of issues.

My 2001 VolvoXC70 was almost trouble free but did have some work done (sunroof & bushings) that would of cost a lot of money if it was not under warrantee. The car needed new rotors, tires and major tune-up when I turn it in but I was charged nothing! I would have leased another one but did not want the same car.

My BMW X5 4.4 cost me $550 to lease and with 4,000 miles on it is trouble free. I plan on getting the transition software update, when I take in for the annual oil change. I plan to get the safety inspection done at the same time. This means that with a little luck, I will see the dealer 3 times over the span of 39 month lease. The sticker cost of the X5 was $57,245 at a lease cost of $550 and no repair cost it's a deal in terms of both time and money.

I think a lot of new models such as the early BMW X5 have issues that become resolved with latter iterations.

If you were to buy the current Camry it is probably bullet proof. But I like cars that drive better and look better. As long as I can get great lease deals on European Car I will keep leasing them.


----------



## Wingboot (Jan 8, 2002)

Brand new multi million dollar airplanes that you fly on have problems too. Machines malfuntion. The more complex the more likely it will need some service. Just because one spends $50,000 on a car doesn't mean it should not break.


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

Exactly Wingboot! People can't expect a mechanical device to be perfect. A friend of mine told me "since a BMW is so expensive, it shouldnt break". To add to this, I'd be willing to bet BMW's are pushed harder than your average toyota/honda driver pushes theirs. 

My 1992 325 has had no major issues. Granted, there are certain "preventive maintance" items you replace, like thermostats, just like on most cars. I did have a window relay go, but that was a simple and inexpensive fix. Oh, and I have 179,500 miles on it which includes 4 years of driving on the Autobahn.


----------



## chuck92103 (Oct 9, 2005)

I have to mention the fact I cannot count how many times I avoided accidents by having a BMW and its handling characteristics.

I tend to see minivans, pickup trucks and sedans piled up on the road from accidents more so than BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc.

Not sure what value you can place on your life. :dunno:



motor_werke said:


> Exactly Wingboot! People can't expect a mechanical device to be perfect. A friend of mine told me "since a BMW is so expensive, it shouldnt break". To add to this, I'd be willing to bet BMW's are pushed harder than your average toyota/honda driver pushes theirs.
> 
> My 1992 325 has had no major issues. Granted, there are certain "preventive maintance" items you replace, like thermostats, just like on most cars. I did have a window relay go, but that was a simple and inexpensive fix. Oh, and I have 179,500 miles on it which includes 4 years of driving on the Autobahn.


----------



## Orangefiv5 (Oct 27, 2005)

Well, it also depends how the vehicle was drivin or lack of driving I should say. I have a 1991325ic with on 39K original when I bought it in Feb. 05 and now it has 55K and I had to replace the head gasket and the whole head, water pump, radiator and others so there are an obundant amount of factors that coincide all in all time is money and you pay for what you get so you do what you do for a reason!


----------



## skullyca (Jul 4, 2005)

*Here is a nice Engine Night Mare 4U Folks*

I bought a pre-owned 320I with 25K in October of 2001. Mostly highway driving, about 800Km a week and that is Monday to Friday not including weekends. This car never missed a visit to your lovely Doctor at BMW, regular oil change, inspection 1 and 2.
Past 2 years driving has been cut down to about 250Km a week including weekends.

Changed oil every 10Km, and never had oil light come on between oil changes.
January of this year I notice a drastic change in oil consumption. Every 2000Km the oil light started coming on, until it reached a point of 200Km between oil notification. During this interval it was consuming 1L of oil per 200Km or less. Milage when this started about, 160K. Had extended warrante, BMW was totally useless.

After all is said and done cylinger 5 and 6 had carbon build up. Warrante doesn't cover it.
BMW in the 8 months I was reporting this issue could not even tell me the cause of it or they didn't care to. Took it to a outside machanic, and he did a bang up job. First within 1 hour telling where it was being consumed. After some extensive work, he was able to identify exactly the cause.

Car has got 171K right now and just replaced the entire engine. Would of been too expensive to rebuild. Going to take this up with BMW, for the time that passed I feel that this could have been prevented.

After this experience I will think twice before buying another one.

Any thoughts?


----------



## x54.4blue (Sep 17, 2005)

*171 is high Mile*

171 is high mile Lease new


----------



## Lanc3r (Sep 5, 2004)

x54.4blue said:


> 171 is high mile Lease new


Thats Kilometers

171,000 km = 106,254 miles

And should be just brokin in.


----------



## Malibubimmer (Sep 28, 2005)

x54.4blue said:


> 171 is high mile Lease new


I think our Canadian friend is using kilometers.


----------



## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

motor_werke said:


> Exactly Wingboot! People can't expect a mechanical device to be perfect. A friend of mine told me "since a BMW is so expensive, it shouldnt break". To add to this, I'd be willing to bet BMW's are pushed harder than your average toyota/honda driver pushes theirs.


 I don't see people complaining of repeat camshaft-sensor failures, ECU issues, or other "high-end" problems.

It's stuff like door seals and window regulators -- the *EASY* stuff -- that drives us crazy and frankly should not be happening when BMW is cranking out their 1,000,000th 3-series. :thumbdwn:

My 2002 325ci ZSP was a great car -- except for the FOUR door seals that needed to be replaced over 25 months. Good thing each was under warranty, or else I would've been out some $$$ (~$200-$300 each if I remember correctly).

Improper choice of GLUE is a problem that should NOT be plauging 8 years' production of a company's most popular line of cars.


----------



## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

HGilmore said:


> Whether you buy or lease is relevant. If you are tired of taking your BMW to the shop for problems, when the lease is up, you simply drop the car off and walk away. Case closed!


But it matters not whether you buy or lease when the car needs service before the lease is out. You still have to take it to the dealer (or other shop) to get it repaired, and if the repair is not covered under warrantee you have to pay for it.
Bottom line: leasing will not make a car more reliable.


----------



## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

Wingboot said:


> Brand new multi million dollar airplanes that you fly on have problems too. Machines malfuntion. The more complex the more likely it will need some service. Just because one spends $50,000 on a car doesn't mean it should not break.


Well said *Wingfoot*.
I fail to understand why so many otherwise intelligent people seem to think that if you spend enough money you can repeal the laws of physics (and Murphy).
Automobiles are _machines_ and any machine will fail at some time. Are today's automobiles more reliable and less maintenance-intensive than yesterday's cars? Hell yes! When was the last time you saw a car carrying a water bag across the desert because overheating was *expected*?
Is *any* machine that pushes the engineering envelope more prone to failure? Yes. If you want maximum reliability buy low-performance cars, but don't expect perfection because perfection doesn't happen in the real world.

And let me add that BMW does fail to correct small areas of failure that ought to be easy to do. The infamous window regulators and the weatherstripping glue come to mind. I personally am outraged that BMW considers an 11% high speedometer to be within spec. At least they will repair a failed window regulator, but they say that there is no problem with a speedometer that reads 11% fast! This is "precision German engineering?"


----------



## Bob Clevenger (Dec 17, 2004)

x54.4blue said:


> 171 is high mile Lease new


You know, "Buy (or lease) a new one" is just what the manufacturers want.
Perhaps he (or she) wants to keep this car because he (or she) *likes* it.
Yeah 171k km (106k miles) is pretty high mileage, but if the car is what is wanted, it ought to be good for a long time more once the engine is replaced.

If I live long enough to wear out the S54 engine in my M cupe I will replace it. I will *not* just "buy a new one" because there are no new ones like it.


----------



## Silver328i (Aug 22, 2004)

Would where the BMW was made have an influence? Like are ones made in Germany better than ones made in South Carolina? I have heard that Toyota's Pruis that they are now making in the US have tons of problems, so everyone wants one made in Japan. My 1998 328i was made in Germany and I haven't had a tenth of the problems other E36 owners post about. :dunno:


----------



## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

Silver328i said:


> Would where the BMW was made have an influence? Like are ones made in Germany better than ones made in South Carolina? I have heard that Toyota's Pruis that they are now making in the US have tons of problems, so everyone wants one made in Japan. My 1998 328i was made in Germany and I haven't had a tenth of the problems other E36 owners post about. :dunno:


Generally, not. In fact, BMWs build in South Africa for example, are slightly better than ones built in Germany. Its true that South Carolina built BMWs (mostly x5s) have had more problems than other models-- but its hard to blame the plant for that; a lot of it could just be supplier problems and poor engineering (which BMW has been guilty of from time to time). So, if X5s (for example) were built in Germany they'd probably have the same issues. From what I've seen in reading about people's issues with their cars on this and other sites, 99% of the issues seem to be related to engineering issues. I can't remeber a problem that was actually assembly related; like the seat wasn't screwed in, or something wasn't plugged in that should've been, etc. All the infamous BMW issues (window regs,water pumps, door seals, suspension failures, rear floor failures, etc) were the fault of BMW engineering-or possibly suppliers, not manufacturing. Terry Kennedy actually had a semi-assembly related issue w/ his German built BMW--there was a mistake in the wiring harness that cuased all sorts of wierd electrical issues-- but that's the only 1 i can remember.


----------



## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

robg said:


> From what I've seen in reading about people's issues with their cars on this and other sites, 99% of the issues seem to be related to engineering issues. I can't remeber a problem that was actually assembly related; like the seat wasn't screwed in, or something wasn't plugged in that should've been, etc. All the infamous BMW issues (window regs,water pumps, door seals, suspension failures, rear floor failures, etc) were the fault of BMW engineering-or possibly suppliers, not manufacturing.


:stupid: All of the "stupid stuff" that breaks on BMWs is stuff like "why did you use that crappy glue?" "Why did you make that high-wear part out of plastic instead of metal?" etc.


----------



## TRAPstar (Feb 4, 2006)

motor_werke said:


> To add to this, I'd be willing to bet BMW's are pushed harder than your average toyota/honda driver pushes theirs.


 I think that;s a much overlooked point. F1 cars don't last much longer than a single race b/c of the abuse they take


----------



## JayK330 (Feb 11, 2006)

I would say at some point in a persons lifetime, they are bound to end up with a so-called lemon. Or own a car that just has to be maintained a little more often. My parents have owned Chryslers and Fords and will never own either brand again due to the problems they had. They've never owned anything other than a GM product since. 

That being said, my dad owned a Triumph TR6 and said he had more problems with that car than any he's ever owned. But he has said it was the best and most fun car he has ever owned.

When I get my car, I plan on having it for 5 to 6 years. I also expect my bills will run higher, that's a given. But I'm young and single, I may have to hold off on a car like this for a little while longer once I get married and start a family.


----------



## john72 (Feb 19, 2006)

I just traded in my 2001 330i for a new 2006 325i . . . I got tired of dealing with the maintenance problems on my previous car . . . it even needed the transmission replaced (!) I like the convenience of a lease and am a firm believer in warranties (even extended ones for older cars).


----------



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

chuck92103 said:


> I
> If you buy cars that *push the limits of engineering*, you know doubt have more problems than a basic car.
> 
> BMW's are not for everyone.
> ...


i think the bmw engineers tried to push the limits and tried to defy the laws of physics by mounting the subframe mount on flat sheet metal on the chassis.  :tsk:

my list:
had to replace door weather stripping ... twice
sunroof clip
thermostat 2x
waterpump premature failure
control arms
rear shock mount adjust
rear subframe mount
intake and exhaust cam shaft sensors
HVAC resistor
OBC button not working
guibo replaced
door rattles.... worked countless times until after warranty, i fixed it correctly
light signal not working properly. will fix myself when the weather is warmer
bad fan switch which took out the thermostat and water reservior
5th gear retent loss in cold weather

:tsk: these are the ones that i remember off the top of my head. i have no clue how bmw can possibly have made money from the sale this car to me.


----------



## mullman (Jan 5, 2006)

I remember in 2000 my mother had leased a brand new X5 3.0.
Within 200 miles (next day after signing papers) it caught fire in the garage and if unattended could have burned the house down. If I recall she smelled smoke, ran into the garage and put it out with the garden hose then called me.

Nothing is perfect.

My '00 540i6 on the other hand was in the shop three times in 45K miles (36 mos).
One time was because the dealership cut my sport seat bolster when removing the plastic and they had to order a completely new seat.
The other two times were just routine service.

As long as I get a decent loaner and they fix it in a timely fashion I'm happy.

My 1998 Volvo V70 T5 was in the shop all the time.
Two AC system failures, one radio failure, front end would not stay in line.
But again, they were accommodating, gave good Volvo/SAAB loaners, and fixed the problems.
At lease end, bye-bye.

As hi-tech as cars have become, I will NEVER purchase another car with thoughts of owning long term
Much easier, IMHO, to just lease and get new cars every 24-36 mos.

I do dabble in the older stuff, but in that case I am doing all the work myself and do not mind if things break.
It is part of the "fun" in some twisted way!


----------



## Rowag (Nov 12, 2004)

TRAPstar said:


> I think that;s a much overlooked point. F1 cars don't last much longer than a single race b/c of the abuse they take


I don't think people's powertrains are dying everyday on their BMWs - it's the little crap.

BMW window regulators aren't "pushed any harder" than they are in any other car. The same with door seals - my '02 325ci went through FIVE door seals due to crappy glue. Any day over 100 degrees with high humidity and PLOMP - one fell down.


----------



## Silver328i (Aug 22, 2004)

I have noticed some of the electronic parts are made in Taiwan on my 1998 328i. It figures as GM, Ford and everyone else is "going on the cheap" to keep costs down.


----------



## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

Silver328i said:


> I have noticed some of the electronic parts are made in Taiwan on my 1998 328i. It figures as GM, Ford and everyone else is "going on the cheap" to keep costs down.


doesn't really matter where it's made. it how bmw designed/specified it and the QA they supplied.


----------



## Makakio (Sep 16, 2004)

Quote: I'm Highly disappointed in BMW's

Who isn't?! Pretty car. Fun to drive. Sounds good when revved. Cachet. 

But when was the last time anyone here at the 'fest strapped in and thought "Boy: - ths is one mean high-quality machine"?? HA.


----------



## n pinson (Feb 24, 2006)

HGilmore said:


> Lease, Lease, Lease


I agree with you to a point..

My dad just bought a 1996 750iL with 52000 miles on it for $12000. This car is in perfect condition. There's a whole lot a sh!t that could go wrong with it before you would ever get close to the price that you are paying for a new lease or brand new. And the free maintenence...you are paying for that in your payment. So thats something I consider about BMW's or any car for that matter. Thats why I will most likely never buy a new BMR. :eeps:

Isn't ironic...1996 750iL and 52000 miles later..the car is worth $100,000 less than original cost...go figure!:rofl: :bigpimp:


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

n pinson said:


> Isn't ironic...1996 750iL and 52000 miles later..the car is worth $100,000 less than original cost...go figure!:rofl: :bigpimp:


Shhh, don't tell anyone. They'll all figure out the secret!


----------



## iwanna330cic (Feb 21, 2005)

*Uhmmmmm........*

I did a LOT of research before ordering my new 330 Cic.... and I am aware of some of the issues of reliability with BMW. That being said, I am a little more nervous about having spent over $50K after reading some of these posts! 

My car is on a boat somewhere between Germany and ... due for delivery to yours truly by the end of the month. I hope I am one of those who has miles and miles of smiles and not regrets! :yikes:

Doug


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

iwanna330cic said:


> I did a LOT of research before ordering my new 330 Cic.... and I am aware of some of the issues of reliability with BMW. That being said, I am a little more nervous about having spent over $50K after reading some of these posts!
> 
> My car is on a boat somewhere between Germany and ... due for delivery to yours truly by the end of the month. I hope I am one of those who has miles and miles of smiles and not regrets! :yikes:
> 
> Doug


I have a 92 325 with 180k and I love it. The car is very reliable, and costs very little to maintain. My parents currently own 2 BMW's as well, each 8 yers old and no major problems as well. With 3 BMW's in the family, and no major issues, I think they are solid, reliable cars. Granted, you'll need to perform basic maintenance, and yes you will need to replace the thermostat as part of preventive maintenance. Small price to pay for such wonderful cars. There are of course exceptions, as with all car companies. They are mechanical devices, not every single one will be perfect.


----------



## n pinson (Feb 24, 2006)

motor_werke said:


> Shhh, don't tell anyone. They'll all figure out the secret!


LOL  :eeps:


----------



## n pinson (Feb 24, 2006)

iwanna330cic said:


> I did a LOT of research before ordering my new 330 Cic.... and I am aware of some of the issues of reliability with BMW. That being said, I am a little more nervous about having spent over $50K after reading some of these posts!
> 
> My car is on a boat somewhere between Germany and ... due for delivery to yours truly by the end of the month. I hope I am one of those who has miles and miles of smiles and not regrets! :yikes:
> 
> Doug


Well thats the thing...my father not only owned a 750iL...he owned a 735iL at the same time.

The 750iL didn't cause to much trouble, with the exception of that $4800 A/C.

The 735iL was most likely the best maintenence car that my dad has ever owned. I think he told me that he spent $350 (in things that had to be repaired, not oil, tires, etc.,) in maintenence throughout the 10+ years that he drove it.

So getting a BMW that is reliable is in some ways a gamble. :rofl:


----------



## LoveTAH (Dec 25, 2005)

alexamparo said:


> These are not problems I would expect from these "luxury" cars. Maybe it's time the Germans to start calling in the masterminds that designed Toyotas JZ-GTE I-6 engines int he Supra and GS300 and learn something from them. My moms 1995 GS-300 has 161,000 miles last time I drove it and Nothing has gone wrong past a belt tensioner and the radios pixels going out. THE DAMN THING DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON!!! NOW THATS LUXURY ENGINEERING.
> ...let the flaming begin


You little toyota boys crack me up when you get to bragging on them like nothing ever happens goes wrong. In case you didnt know, its a machine and things are going to break, regardless of them being built by 'masterminds' (that's a moniker that literally made me laugh out loud).

Being a toyota fanboi, Im sure youre aware that same 'masterpiece' of an engine you mentioned was also used in the IS. Trolling around their board, I've seen a few posts starting with "My IS died today....." My aunt's SC with the same engine left her stranded in rush hour traffic twice. How embarassing for them and the 'masterminds'. These are not problems I would expect from these "luxury" cars. :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## akhbhaat (Apr 29, 2003)

n pinson said:


> Well thats the thing...my father not only owned a 750iL...he owned a 735iL at the same time.
> 
> The 750iL didn't cause to much trouble, with the exception of that $4800 A/C.
> 
> ...


You're kidding? E32?

My 735il was absolutely the worst car I've ever owned - at least it was after a couple years (it was fine when it was new and so long as it was regularly driven).


----------



## n pinson (Feb 24, 2006)

akhbhaat said:


> You're kidding? E32?
> 
> My 735il was absolutely the worst car I've ever owned - at least it was after a couple years (it was fine when it was new and so long as it was regularly driven).


Like I said...getting a reliable BMW, especially used...is in some ways a gamble...

Just curious...what kind of problems did you have with your 735iL???


----------



## docarut (Aug 27, 2005)

All cars are prone to problems with current complexity. I had 2003 E500 less than 3 months from new and had car "dead". Turns out rear electrical BUS fried caused many glitches that made the car undrivable safely even after Roadside put new battery and got started. Those "bulletproof" Toyotas-wasn't there some issue and recall or TSB about many cars with oil sludge causing engine failures? All cars can break your heart. As many have said love them while you have them and then move on to another one!

Bob:thumbup:


----------



## Penforhire (Dec 17, 2005)

There's no way the typical BMW is pushed or driven harder than the typical Honda. I don't buy that argument.

The average BMW driver, IMO, has to be more mature and conservative. Honda's have traditionally been a kid-magnet and a street racing icon. If you see someone weaving dangerously through traffic and revving the snot out of their car odds are it is a Honda. Their engines are highly reliable even when driven hard. BMW dropped the ball hard a few times -- I know someone whose M3 got TWO engine replacements under warranty.

BMW has, at least recently, taken knocks for low electronics reliability while Honda (in their Acura line) used to get top marks. And again, their top cars have matching levels of electronic content so don't say BMW puts more in the car.

I am hoping my e90 reverses the trend but you have to be blind not to see they need to apologize almost as much as GM does for past quality!


----------



## GJR (Jan 6, 2003)

I agree in that most low end Hondas and Toyotas that I see are generally beat up and not well cared for, which should take more of a toll than a "driven hard" BMW. BMW's service is also free, whereas lower end cars are not, which would make you think that owners of those cars skip scheduled maintenance pretty frequently.

There's no excuse for E39 and E38 V8 owners to have to replace our ENTIRE cooling systems, including radiator, expansion tank, water pump, thermostat (and yes, the engine fan and fan clutch!) before 60k miles to prevent catastrophic failure. That's what all BMW-related publications (Bimmer Magazine, BMWCCA, etc.) and independant BMW mechanics are recommending these days.


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

n pinson said:


> Like I said...getting a reliable BMW, especially used...is in some ways a gamble...
> 
> Just curious...what kind of problems did you have with your 735iL???


My parents 98 740i has been wonderful. Only two issues:

1) airbag sensor in passenger seat seems to be finicky, so we get a warming light. however, in this case, the airbag will always go off, and is not a saftey risk.

2) the cd drive mechanism for the nav died last year, and had to be replaced (we replaced the whole nav unit since it wasnt too $$ and we got all the new features and speed.

Over the course of 8 years, I'd say these problems are very minor.

I do hear people say the 7's have electrical issues, but overall, I think mehcanicaly they are very sound. (save the whole Nakasil engine thing mid 90's)


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

GJR said:


> I agree in that most low end Hondas and Toyotas that I see are generally beat up and not well cared for, which should take more of a toll than a "driven hard" BMW. BMW's service is also free, whereas lower end cars are not, which would make you think that owners of those cars skip scheduled maintenance pretty frequently.
> 
> There's no excuse for E39 and E38 V8 owners to have to replace our ENTIRE cooling systems, including radiator, expansion tank, water pump, thermostat (and yes, the engine fan and fan clutch!) before 60k miles to prevent catastrophic failure. That's what all BMW-related publications (Bimmer Magazine, BMWCCA, etc.) and independant BMW mechanics are recommending these days.


Well, "beat up" on the exterior has little bearing on the engine. Driving the car to or near redline has a lot more wear and tear on the engine itself. I know people with honda's and toyota's that have many issues, and I also know those who have very few issues. Same with BMW's. They are mechanical, so you will hear praise and complaints from different people. As for the cooling issue... well, I can't say much in BMW's defense. To me, its a bearable burden for driving such wonderful cars.


----------



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

Penforhire said:


> The average BMW driver, IMO, has to be more mature and conservative. Honda's have traditionally been a kid-magnet and a street racing icon. If you see someone weaving dangerously through traffic and revving the snot out of their car odds are it is a Honda.


Aaaaah, well now you see this is where opinion is divided on the matter. On this side of the pond, new Hondas - even Civics - are bought by folk of advancing years, with more limited expectations of dynamic capability - and the biggest Honda available is an Accord with a 2.3 litre petrol engine (sales: literally, hundreds every year). BMWs are bought in their hundreds of thousands by young thrusters, bankers, business owners, drug dealers and everyone else in between; whether or not they get driven fast in anything other than a straight line, I do not know.

As a result, even your average BMW has significantly more electronic content than a Honda, although of course that does not excuse the unreliability that results from this complexity. But certainly, your average BMW is driven harder and with greater expectations than your average Honda.

Mind you the average Honda here would be quite unrecognisable to a buyer in the States or even Japan for that matter - but the BMW is the same everywhere. Funny, that


----------



## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

1976 Plymouth Arrow (new) 135,000 miles trouble free 4 cylinder
1983 Chevy Camaro (new) 3 engines sold at 47,000 and no luck with manufactuer
1988 Chrysler Lebaron Turbo (new) 120,000 no major problems
1992 Grand Prix (used) Pace car no problems traded in after 3 years not good in snow.
1996 Isuzu Rodeo LS 4wd (New) 141,000 nothing major, front 4wd locking hub broke twice 
2000 Toyota 4Runner (new) 140,000 power steering pump at 121,000 not even the brakes.
2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Laramie (new) STILL HAVE THANK GOD........
2000 BMW 528i (used) CPO lasted 6 months...........

I did love the car BUT since I do extensive driving and have a child to worry about being stranded in the middle of no where I need reliable.

BMW was very easy to work and its all political.

I wish I kept my Toyota.

I work for a large utility company and we are hard on our company trucks, construction sites, storm conditions where the vehicles run or idle all day and night. Dodge was most reliable of the fleet trucks, Chevy 2nd.

Our junk trucks run sometimes days on end only stopping for dinner break, rest room or gas. My current work truck has 127,000 and the alternator went. S10 Pickup.

Why cant a $50,000.00 car come close.

Do you really need all the gadgets over reliability.

Yes I love the ride, the feel, the car and now the embarrassment.

I have heard smart BMW owners lease. How do you go backwards from a BMW. BMW to Honda............aaauuugghhh.

Some of the lineman have Honda's and they have over 300,000 on them.


----------



## whiskey.org (Sep 9, 2005)

I don't see why you have to knock the reliability of the car lois when you clearly bought a well abused example.............................

why can't a 18,000 used car lot BMW with 73000 miles be as good as a new honda 

well duh!


----------



## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

LoveTAH said:


> You little toyota boys crack me up when you get to bragging on them like nothing ever happens goes wrong. In case you didnt know, its a machine and things are going to break, regardless of them being built by 'masterminds' (that's a moniker that literally made me laugh out loud).
> 
> Being a toyota fanboi, Im sure youre aware that same 'masterpiece' of an engine you mentioned was also used in the IS. Trolling around their board, I've seen a few posts starting with "My IS died today....." My aunt's SC with the same engine left her stranded in rush hour traffic twice. How embarassing for them and the 'masterminds'. These are not problems I would expect from these "luxury" cars. :rofl: :rofl:


please, please, please don't try to compare Toyota/Honda reliability to BMW. You'll just wind up embarassing yourself. Anyone on this board who says BMW is even in the same reliability league as Toyota/Honda is kidding themselves. Look at the hard, unbiased data.

Toyota and Honda are by far the most reliable cars on the planet, period. And yes, they get driven hard. I have owned 10 hondas, have had each one well over 100k miles, and have *never* had any major problems. In fact, the biggest problem I had was a CD changer that died.

My current winter car is a 1997 Honda Accord with 195k miles on it. The motor is tighter than my BMW's motor and i have never had a problem. The car is simply amazing, in fact, all the original bulbs still work (lights, etc! :yikes: ). Hondas are built very well.

That being said, I own 2 BMW's and love them both for different reasons.

Let me put it this way: If I had to drive across Death Valley in the middle of summer and I had to pick either a 1997 Honda or a 1997 BMW (oh man that was a bad model run for the 3 series) I know which car i'd put my trust in.

And by the way, you might want to check out this month's consumer reports. Guess what, the E90 got ANOTHER ****ty rating. Notwithstanding, I still love my E90.


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

Well, I wouldnt be knocking BMW reliability either, at least mechanical. I've seen many BMW's with 300k+, some in the 500k range. In fact, I saw e36 M3 ith 400k, original engine, etc. Apperently, some of the more current cars have electrical issues, and some experience ball joint, subframe, etc. But, overall, the cars are very well built. They do have their flaws, sure. I do agree that honda and toyotas are reliable, but they are fairly simplistic engines. (s2000 is an exception, great engine, but apperently many people are starting to hit issues )

If you want a car to start, and go a->b, hoda and toyota have the edge. However, they seem to go through mufflers quickly, I hear many people have theirs fall off or rust out. Not exactly fun.


----------



## iove75 (Sep 10, 2004)

motor_werke said:


> Well, I wouldnt be knocking BMW reliability either, at least mechanical. I've seen many BMW's with 300k+, some in the 500k range.


Yeah, but how much $$$ you have to shell out to get it to go that high? Things break no matter the make, the difference is the cost and availability of parts. Just be glad that you folks don't have MB which is at the complete opposite end of the reliabilty spectrum. They break down often and are infinitely expensive to fix (assuming you can get the parts), worse than BMW.


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

I don't have to put much $ into my car, just basic preventive maintenance, and oil changes every 5k. Small things go now that my car is 14 years old, like the comfort relay, and the gasket for the fuel tank, but these are minor and worth it for such an enjoyable vehicle. Yes, I do replace the thermostat every 60k or so. But even with all this, isn't it worth it to have these cars over, say, a BORING camry?

< rant> I drove a 06 Camry and found it to be one of the worst cars I have ever driven. Power steering so overdone that you have no idea what the wheels are doing, ugly ugly ugly interior (this was the standard model), and the whole package was so bland it was terrible. I don't know how people can buy the camry, the civic and accord are far nicer. < /rant>


----------



## Hitman999 (Mar 2, 2006)

I am on my second Bimmer. The first was an E46 and I had that car for 5 years never had any problems with it. Current car is an E90 no problems so far


----------



## gr8330 (Mar 31, 2002)

Hitman999 said:


> I am on my second Bimmer. The first was an E46 and I had that car for 5 years never had any problems with it. Current car is an E90 no problems so far


Are you sure it's not a Honda :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## LoveTAH (Dec 25, 2005)

pilotman said:


> please, please, please don't try to compare Toyota/Honda reliability to BMW. You'll just wind up embarassing yourself.


No worries, I wont wind up embarassing myself on a topic of reliability since quite frankly it's a topic I dont give a **** about. All I was pointing out to the toyota asslicker is that they, like no car or carmaker on this planet, are not perfect, contrary to what people like him would love to believe.



> Anyone on this board who says BMW is even in the same reliability league as Toyota/Honda is kidding themselves. Look at the hard, unbiased data.


Right, that same 'unbiased data' formed from responses received from a FRACTION of owners? Sh'yeah, real scientific and exact. :tsk: I'll pick up a consumer reports when I need something for my dog to **** on, since that's all the good it could ever do me.


----------



## Ågent99 (Jan 7, 2002)

...and, yet, BMW continues to break sales records every quarter!! Why is that? :dunno:

What everyone needs to keep in mind is that the folks posting here are but a slim, slim segment of BMW's market. And with that, I'd wager that most of us are enthusiasts with a slant towards performance and modification. I think perhaps most of us on this forum are quite sensitive to the happenings of BMWs and/or cars in general.

If everyone on this site decide NOT to purchase BMWs in the future, I hardly doubt BMW would notice it very much....


----------



## TexasFF/EMT (Mar 15, 2006)

robg said:


> Maybe-- but it generally seems like the parts that break aren't really "pushing the limits of engineering". Window regulators, control arms, thermostats, etc aren't really the height of automotive technology.


how about the friggin cup holders? and the radio displays? and the cd players? I know its cool when my car can tell me "hey idiot, change your remote battery!" but you would think that out of the four cup holders I have at least one would work!

Message to BMW engineers : If its tiny, and your thinking about making it out of plastic, go on ahead and use steel or titanium or something. Were already paying $60-100+ k for the car, we wont mind having "titanium cup holders -STANDARD"


----------



## TexasFF/EMT (Mar 15, 2006)

*Fyi*

FYI talking about reliability, my car has 255,000 miles on it and drives fine. :thumbup:

chew on that TOYota


----------



## motor_werke (Nov 15, 2005)

I was just talking to a guy at work yesterday, and his brother in-law had an e36 with 500k+ miles, which he sold and bought an e39 540 which has 300k+ miles now. I must say, that is rather impressive.


----------



## Lois822 (Dec 29, 2005)

Whiskey.org I am not knocking the cars in general just that fact that BMW does not give two cents on what they certified. I actually loved my car. I feel like I walked out on an abused foster child. I found several other threads that Duh could mean it had other issues like the thermostat not working properly and I am not the only one with a sludge issue. Heck I thought 70,000 miles was a baby in BMW longevity.

I can't say I ever had to search web forums before researching engine issues before.

I drive around 150 miles a day just going to and from work. I take care of my vehicles.

I never had issues except with the Chevy Camaro--consider the source and it was bought new. I noticed their stock is way down today and future looking like Terrel Owens.

I looked out in my driveway and thank god my 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Hemi doesn't have its balls tucked between its legs. It runs great.....I pull a horse trailer with it. I drive it in all kinds of bad weather while the BMW sat nicely tucked in a warm garage. Pretty darn funny its got almost half the miles my BMW had on it before it was Duh too many miles to be reliable.

So how do you explain the Toyota 4 Runner with 140,000 and not even the brakes replaced. Lots of drive time and not a whimper.

Your right.........let's do the math.........2000 BMW original cost about $45,000.00 low end.
and life expectency let's hope 100,000

Honda and Toyota about $24,000.00 average model .......life expectancy 230,000 + your right I should have done the math.

I need my car to also run not just look pretty- do I drive it hard- no that's why I own a truck.


----------



## andy_thomas (Oct 7, 2002)

TexasFF/EMT said:


> how about the friggin cup holders? and the radio displays? and the cd players? I know its cool when my car can tell me "hey idiot, change your remote battery!" but you would think that out of the four cup holders I have at least one would work!
> 
> Message to BMW engineers : If its tiny, and your thinking about making it out of plastic, go on ahead and use steel or titanium or something. Were already paying $60-100+ k for the car, we wont mind having "titanium cup holders -STANDARD"


Cupholders schmupholders . You make cupholders out of titanium, and BMW has to take cost out of a more important component, like the suspension, or the licence plate surround...


----------



## FalconGuy (Sep 27, 2002)

As a pilot and aircraft tech I have to chime in, power windows? Pushing the Engineering envelope? :rofl:

Control arms high Tech?

Falling Trim is not being asked to defy the laws of physics

I fail to understand why so many otherwise intelligent people seem to think that if you spend enough money you can repeal the laws of physics (and Murphy).
Automobiles are _machines_ and any machine will fail at some time. Are today's automobiles more reliable and less maintenance-intensive than yesterday's cars? Hell yes! When was the last time you saw a car carrying a water bag across the desert because overheating was *expected*?
Is *any* machine that pushes the engineering envelope more prone to failure? Yes. If you want maximum reliability buy low-performance cars, but don't expect perfection because perfection doesn't happen in the real world.

And let me add that BMW does fail to correct small areas of failure that ought to be easy to do. The infamous window regulators and the weatherstripping glue come to mind. I personally am outraged that BMW considers an 11% high speedometer to be within spec. At least they will repair a failed window regulator, but they say that there is no problem with a speedometer that reads 11% fast! This is "precision German engineering?"[/QUOTE]


----------



## BMWE30freak (Mar 19, 2006)

Personally, this is why I bought an E30. They never die!!


----------



## e60lover (Dec 28, 2005)

My new '91 e30 318 had no problems exept for the windshield wipers failing to work in the pouring rain forcing me to stick my head out the window. lol

My new '96 e36 328i was the worst BMW I have ever owned and was a nightmare but I still loved the car. This is the car that made me leave BMW.

My new '06 530i has been fine since October.

My new '06 X5 4.4i has been fine since a few weeks ago.

I think that I can say that the whole BMW experience is superior that any other car that I have ever had. Thats why I am a BMW lover. lol


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Funny thing is, the so called reliable cars have just as many problems, but the owners are brain washed.

Back in the days when Honda was making its name in the JD Power reliability surveys,they gamed the system. By giving a nice waiting area, they were able to get enough points to go to the top, even though the actual reliability of the cars was no better than any others.

At work a couple of people are real Honda fans. One is on his 3rd tranny, and second engine, the other has had numerous smaller problems. But they will tell you how reliable their Hondas are, other than those few things.


----------



## mvallido (Feb 2, 2006)

I've owned Infiniti, Mercedes, and BMW. Just bought a GS300. All of them got me from point A to B and happy with all of them. They all got their PROs and CONs. Cars are like women, you need to try different cultures to find out which one will do you best...for whatever occassion you desire.


----------



## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

Let's face it, the early to mid 90s for BMW, sucked. They were so far ahead of the game up to that point, they started to rest on their laurels and the quality went down hill..

case in point, my 94 318is (granted, entry level), needed two new window regulators, a fuel pump, and a new ECU at 58,000 miles.

my 79 528iA, on the other hand, ran without ANY problems to 248,902 untill i blew out a ring. and that was that.

my 79 Honda Accord CVCC hatchback, new clutch at 123,000. then i sold it and bought a 71 2002ti. ok, i should have done homework on that car, not because it was a bad, unreliable car, but the previous owner had done NOTHING to it and i got stuck with the repairs, but, i bought it as 219,000 miles- so it was purely wear and tear items.

i've heard horible stories from friends lately about the acuras needing major suspension overhaul, new blocks, new transmissions, etc etc ALL before they even got close to 100,000 miles.

and come on, no one builds em like the used to.. all these companies are there to MAKE money.... if they build cars that last 500,000 miles... they wont make money.

what it comes down to, though, is nothing, NOTHING, drives or feels like a BMW. I researched more than 20 cars before i settled on my X3, because nothing else out there came close to what it feels like to sit in, listen to, and drive a BMW.


----------



## 650iOzBoy (Sep 2, 2005)

kjboyd said:


> what it comes down to, though, is nothing, NOTHING, drives or feels like a BMW. I researched more than 20 cars before i settled on my X3, because nothing else out there came close to what it feels like to sit in, listen to, and drive a BMW.


It gives you a big  everytime you drive the damn thing. :thumbup: I've taken delivery of my 650i coupe for over 6 months now. My first BMW. Pure joy.


----------



## gr8330 (Mar 31, 2002)

If all you do is go from point A to point B the Lexus is what you need


----------



## mvallido (Feb 2, 2006)

gr8330 said:


> If all you do is go from point A to point B the Lexus is what you need


Agreed. That's why I got a GS300 for that.


----------

