# Is the D a good choice for me



## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

As I have progressed in my career, I got to the point where I purchased my first used BMW. An E90 328i 2008 used which now has 160,000 miles on it. Apart from starter motor, which had me stranded, it has been pretty trouble free miles. I do as much of the maintenance myself including keeping up with all lubrication changes.
I have no reason to believe that I won't get many more miles out of this car but already researching other options.
I drive 20,000 commuter miles a year. 2 miles at each end with a 35 mile highway in between one way to work. 
I will try and do as much of the maintenance myself with the new to me car.
I have to say I like the smoothness of the straight six and am not sure if the four cylinder 328d is a good choice. Though understand the TDI Golf lasted many years for people. On the other hand I am frugal in that mpg is a consideration. Currently getting 27 mpg in the 328.
So my other options are the X5d and X3d and 535d. From reading the forums I discounted the 335d due to problems, though if I am incorrect please let me know. Other things to consider is I have a second person that rides with me and I transport a bike to my many rides in the area up to several 100 miles away. I have a bike rack but when traveling interstate I drop the rear seats and lay it in the car.
I mostly drive the car, though on occasion my wife drives the 328 and complains how low it is. My kids also complain at how low it is also.
So considering this what do you recommend and does the d make sense and considering I will complete easy maintenance myself are there things that make better sense, e.g. X over rwd.
Thanks for any input.
Allan

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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

535d is a really nice car, that being said with wife kids and bike the X5d might make a better choice. You will get better mpg with the 5er. My X5d averages 24ish and it’s been a fantastic vehicle. 


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

All of the F chassis diesels have the 8 speed transmission and are twin scroll single-turbos, I think this should provide better reliability and economy long term than E chassis 6 speeds and twin turbos. 
I think the X3, 535, and X5 could all be really good options. The 6 is a bit smoother than the 4, and has a longer successful track record worldwide IMO. X3 will be the hardest to find since they were only made in 15 and 16, F15 X5 Is the best overall package for comfort, ability, and visibility I think.

We got our X5 to be our primary kid hauler, but if your kids are complaining how low the e90 is, they are older than mine. Our X5 is full to the brim on a weekend trip with 2 kids and gear for all 4 of us.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

FredoinSF said:


> 535d is a really nice car, that being said with wife kids and bike the X5d might make a better choice. You will get better mpg with the 5er. My X5d averages 24ish and it's been a fantastic vehicle.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest


X5 is still small for family trips. I am buying minivan due to size of X5 (trust me, I am not proud of the choice). 
On top of that F15 is smaller in the back then E70.

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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

dzlbimmer said:


> All of the F chassis diesels have the 8 speed transmission and are twin scroll single-turbos, I think this should provide better reliability and economy long term than E chassis 6 speeds and twin turbos.
> 
> I think the X3, 535, and X5 could all be really good options. The 6 is a bit smoother than the 4, and has a longer successful track record worldwide IMO. X3 will be the hardest to find since they were only made in 15 and 16, F15 X5 Is the best overall package for comfort, ability, and visibility I think.
> 
> We got our X5 to be our primary kid hauler, but if your kids are complaining how low the e90 is, they are older than mine. Our X5 is full to the brim on a weekend trip with 2 kids and gear for all 4 of us.


BMW sells much more 4cyl then 6cyl engines. You could argue that 6cyl was more popular until 1998 when BMW along M57 started production of 2.0 136 207lb-ft 4cyl. It was instant hit in Europe, and Europe swallows majority of world diesels. 
X5 is good for weekends with family. Any long trip is a pain due to space. We just did 5,114 mile trip in 16 days and realized that we need either Mercedes-Benz GL or minivan. So we will get minivan.

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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

dzlbimmer said:


> All of the F chassis diesels have the 8 speed transmission and are twin scroll single-turbos, I think this should provide better reliability and economy long term than E chassis 6 speeds and twin turbos.
> I think the X3, 535, and X5 could all be really good options. The 6 is a bit smoother than the 4, and has a longer successful track record worldwide IMO. X3 will be the hardest to find since they were only made in 15 and 16, F15 X5 Is the best overall package for comfort, ability, and visibility I think.
> 
> We got our X5 to be our primary kid hauler, but if your kids are complaining how low the e90 is, they are older than mine. Our X5 is full to the brim on a weekend trip with 2 kids and gear for all 4 of us.


Good info. Thanks.
My wife has a mini van which is our weekly hauler with the kids.
On days I have to take them to school only a short distance they complain about the back. They are spoiled in the mini van.
This is mainly my commuter car to put on miles and carry my bike when I ride. To carry the troops on occasion.
I live in PA and to be honest the 328 RWD has ever stopped me from getting to work.

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## n00bkiller944 (May 21, 2018)

Pakiwi said:


> Good info. Thanks.
> My wife has a mini van which is our weekly hauler with the kids.
> On days I have to take them to school only a short distance they complain about the back. They are spoiled in the mini van.
> This is mainly my commuter car to put on miles and carry my bike when I ride. To carry the troops on occasion.
> ...


If thats the case maybe look at a 328d? I Love mine and it rewards me with great mPG


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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

edycol said:


> BMW sells much more 4cyl then 6cyl engines. You could argue that 6cyl was more popular until 1998 when BMW along M57 started production of 2.0 136 207lb-ft 4cyl. It was instant hit in Europe, and Europe swallows majority of world diesels.
> X5 is good for weekends with family. Any long trip is a pain due to space. We just did 5,114 mile trip in 16 days and realized that we need either Mercedes-Benz GL or minivan. So we will get minivan.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My concern with the 4 cyl maybe unfounded. The 4 cylinder has the turbos all working harder than the straight 6.
Will it get the miles that the six has no problem getting to.
Thanks

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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Pakiwi said:


> My concern with the 4 cyl maybe unfounded. The 4 cylinder has the turbos all working harder than the straight 6.
> Will it get the miles that the six has no problem getting to.
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Bimmerfest mobile app


I saw them in Europe upward of 500k. 
N47 in the US comes only with single turbo. In Europe you have stronger versions with two turbos. They work fine. 
6cyl is better to drive of course. Nature of inline 6 is that it is naturally balanced engine unlike V6. But if you consider 4cyl there is no reason to be afraid.

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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

How exactly does a electronically controlled turbo work harder on a 4 cylinder versus a 6 cylinder?


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

I just bought my fourth diesel so it shouldn't surprise anyone when I say I'm a diesel fanatic.However,diesels are only for certain drivers IMO.Specifically I believe that diesels are *not* well suited for typical suburbia applications...work,supermarket,soccer practice.I firmly believe that diesels are best suited for the Interstate,cruise control at 70-80MPH,long distance.

Given that 90% of the miles I drive are exactly that (except,being in the Northeast, I'm usually closer to 65MPH) I've unofficially referred to all my oil burners as "beast" and have officially labeled my newest one that...thanks to 457 ft lbs of torque.

Anyone who's ever owned a diesel knows exactly why 18 wheelers and locomotives are diesel powered!

Just sayin'...


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

alacey said:


> How exactly does a electronically controlled turbo work harder on a 4 cylinder versus a 6 cylinder?


The fact alone that the 4cylinder is going to work harder than the 6cylinder to accelerate, including a potential need for higher shifts. Driving 6 cylinder around town I have a delicate toe on the go pedal except when needing additional power. Driving a 4 cylinder around town I am using a reasonable foot except on at-speed cruise...
I would expect the exhaust gas temp of the N47 4 cyl to be on average higher than that of the N57 6cyl


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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

listerone said:


> I just bought my fourth diesel so it shouldn't surprise anyone when I say I'm a diesel fanatic.However,diesels are only for certain drivers IMO.Specifically I believe that diesels are *not* well suited for typical suburbia applications...work,supermarket,soccer practice.I firmly believe that diesels are best suited for the Interstate,cruise control at 70-80MPH,long distance.
> 
> Given that 90% of the miles I drive are exactly that (except,being in the Northeast, I'm usually closer to 65MPH) I've unofficially referred to all my oil burners as "beast" and have officially labeled my newest one that...thanks to 457 ft lbs of torque.
> 
> ...


Think it's probably a perfect fit then. I have two miles warm up the 75 to within a few miles of work then two miles into work. It does get backed up but most days keep moving at a good clip. I think getting 27mpg in the e90 328 is at the high end of expectations so thinking the driving I do will also be perfect. So which model has that amount of torque. I know the 335d was up there.
Thanks

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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

:rofl::rofl::rofl: Work harder to accelerate.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

Pakiwi said:


> Think it's probably a perfect fit then. I have two miles warm up the 75 to within a few miles of work then two miles into work. It does get backed up but most days keep moving at a good clip. I think getting 27mpg in the e90 328 is at the high end of expectations so thinking the driving I do will also be perfect. So which model has that amount of torque. I know the 335d was up there.
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Bimmerfest mobile app


Listerone appears to be driving a new (and not currently avail?) 540d. The N57 engine in the 535d and X5d 2014-18 is not far behind. Nor is the M57 in the 335d and X5 09-13.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

alacey said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl: Work harder to accelerate.


says the guy with the 328d lightweight?  :rofl:


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## vwtobmw (May 17, 2013)

dzlbimmer said:


> Listerone appears to be driving a new (and not currently avail?) 540d. The N57 engine in the 535d and X5d 2014-18 is not far behind. Nor is the M57 in the 335d and X5 09-13.


I hear it's not available in the US. I am in Canada and bought a new 2018 540d xDrive, build date is May and took delivery late July. The North American spec 540d is the exact engine / spec as the European 530d.

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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

dzlbimmer said:


> The fact alone that the 4cylinder is going to work harder than the 6cylinder to accelerate, including a potential need for higher shifts. Driving 6 cylinder around town I have a delicate toe on the go pedal except when needing additional power. Driving a 4 cylinder around town I am using a reasonable foot except on at-speed cruise...
> I would expect the exhaust gas temp of the N47 4 cyl to be on average higher than that of the N57 6cyl


Whether it is going to work harder or not depends on weight to power ratio.

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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

vwtobmw said:


> I hear it's not available in the US. I am in Canada and bought a new 2018 540d xDrive, build date is May and took delivery late July. The North American spec 540d is the exact engine / spec as the European 530d.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


Very nice. Every time I bring up diesels around the car people here they laugh and make jokes statements about plugging it in and stinky diesels. Coming from New Zealand all my diesel experiences were nothing but excellent.

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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

dzlbimmer said:


> says the guy with the 328d lightweight?  :rofl:


I can say the same about your lightweight E70 35d with my other diesel.  :rofl:


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## vwtobmw (May 17, 2013)

Pakiwi said:


> Very nice. Every time I bring up diesels around the car people here they laugh and make jokes statements about plugging it in and stinky diesels. Coming from New Zealand all my diesel experiences were nothing but excellent.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Bimmerfest mobile app


Ugh. I hear you.... same in Canada but the US more so.

I had a 2016 750Li, so a V8, that I dumped to get the 540d. I get comments however the 7 was a lemon.... horror stories that are too long to type here. No lemon law in Canada although I worked with BMW Canada and my dealer and came to a settlement. I am more than happy with my diesel and zero regret for not getting into BMW diesel sooner. Hard core VW diesel fan prior to moving to BMW.... explains my username 

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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

vwtobmw said:


> I hear it***8217;s not available in the US. I am in Canada and bought a new 2018 540d xDrive, build date is May and took delivery late July. The North American spec 540d is the exact engine / spec as the European 530d.


I've read here that availability was suddenly stopped a month or so ago...at least here in the US.Mine has a production date of March '18 and I bought it off the lot from a dealer in Maryland that gave me almost 17% off sticker price (after various incentives).

Is the "d" still available for order...either as an '18 or a '19... up north?

And BTW...if you check cars dot com you find that there are somewhere about 50 of them on dealers' lots in the US.


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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

vwtobmw said:


> Ugh. I hear you.... same in Canada but the US more so.
> 
> I had a 2016 750Li, so a V8, that I dumped to get the 540d. I get comments however the 7 was a lemon.... horror stories that are too long to type here. No lemon law in Canada although I worked with BMW Canada and my dealer and came to a settlement. I am more than happy with my diesel and zero regret for not getting into BMW diesel sooner. Hard core VW diesel fan prior to moving to BMW.... explains my username
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Bimmerfest mobile app


VW to BMW. That's quite a step up. Any reason you didn't go to the Audi.
I enjoy motor racing and there is a reason the top runners are diesels.

I'm still stuck between an SUV because of space but think the X5d is too big when I'm travelling alone commuting most days of the week, but then the 328d I bring the complaints of the troops for space and being to low.

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## vwtobmw (May 17, 2013)

listerone said:


> I've read here that availability was suddenly stopped a month or so ago...at least here in the US.Mine has a production date of March '18 and I bought it off the lot from a dealer in Maryland that gave me almost 17% off sticker price (after various incentives).
> 
> Is the "d" still available for order...either as an '18 or a '19... up north?
> 
> And BTW...if you check cars dot com you find that there are somewhere about 50 of them on dealers' lots in the US.


When I bought mine and took delivery July 20th (my dealer had the exact config in their inventory), there were no 2019 out yet..... and yes, it is still available too 

To answer pakiwi, not a fan of Audi any more, bad past experience with the local Audi dealer. Love BMW. Service at my dealer is beyond exceptional as they gave a top tier customer division to cater to their best customers (have bought 3 7 series from them and this 540d in the past 6 years) and will not give up that level of service. Benz locally gives you a C300 or a entry level rental as a loaner if you bring in your S Class for service. That's not acceptable in my eyes.

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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

vwtobmw said:


> I hear it's not available in the US.


Hmmm...interesting.I just checked the Canadian website and found that the "d" is still available for ordering...as an '18...up north.I wonder if that has anything to do with the popularity of diesel in Canada.On my semi-frequent trips to Quebec I see far more diesels than I do in the US.I've always assumed that that had something to do with the fact that diesel costs less in Canada than does Regular.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

edycol said:


> Whether it is going to work harder or not depends on weight to power ratio.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Correct obviously, among a host of other factors. I was spouting in general terms. 
Not sure the comparison you are looking for: comparing a 320d to a 330d, or comparing a 328dx to an 535dx. My comparison was my (125k total?) varying drive time or ownership period in a bunch of 4 cyl td cars incl 328d/dx and X3, comparing to x5d, ML, Q7, and throw an OM602 5cyl td in there too, that E350 td was not very memorable either except for the dynamic seats. I'm pretty sure I could happily choke down an E250, but I forecast it would not be an exciting drive, where the 535d is sure to be a hoot. :eeps:


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

Just because an engine is smaller in displacement or has less number of cylinders doesn't always mean it has to work harder to accelerate. That depends on the bore/stoke ratio, cam profile, type of forced induction, and other variables that dictate when each engine reaches peak torque. My brother's old 92 F150 V8 worked a lot harder to get a 5k trailer moving than my 94 F150 straight 6. Why? Because my straight 6 had a much longer stroke which gave it a lot more torque at much lower rpms (think of loosening a bolt with a 1 ft wrench versus a 2 foot wrench). Also, since my power band was much lower also meant that I could stay within power in more gears. 

Same thing with my old V6 Ecoboost F150 that reached peak torque of 420 lb-ft at 2,500 versus his old V8 F150 that reached peak torque of 400 lb-ft at 4,000. Then there is my current 6.7L straight 6 diesel versus his 6.7L V8 diesel. Even though they are the same displacement and mine has less cylinders, his requires more rpms to get the 14k RVs we tow moving because his V8 has a considerably shorter stroke than my inline 6. He also needs more turbo boost to gain more torque while mine doesn't. 

Not saying it is always the case, but saying that just because an engine is smaller and/or has less cylinders means it has to work harder is not always correct.


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

My experience is that no matter the size of the engine, fuel economy depends more on driving style. Bigger displacement engine vs small, the amount of energy needed is still pretty close in the real world (not EPA tests which are gamed by everyone anyway - at least the NA car companies). Does this mean the smaller engine works "harder?" 

PL


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

alacey said:


> Just because an engine is smaller in displacement or has less number of cylinders doesn't always mean it has to work harder to accelerate.


Of course. All sorts of things matter like gear ratios and tire size, and hugely engineering within an engine. You can't compare apples to oranges so why try.

But when thinking about comparing an E90 with M47 to an E90 with M57, how is this even a discussion? That 4cylinder will happily work away, while the 6cylinder naps most of the time.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

dzlbimmer said:


> Of course. All sorts of things matter like gear ratios and tire size, and hugely engineering within an engine. You can't compare apples to oranges so why try.
> 
> But when thinking about comparing an E90 with M47 to an E90 with M57, how is this even a discussion? That 4cylinder will happily work away, while the 6cylinder naps most of the time.


You said and I quote

"The fact alone that the 4cylinder is going to work harder than the 6cylinder to accelerate, including a potential need for higher shifts."

Which what I was laughing at. The fact alone that an engine is a 4 cylinder does not always mean it will work harder to accelerate than an engine with more displacement or more cylinders.


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

Pierre Louis said:


> My experience is that no matter the size of the engine, fuel economy depends more on driving style. Bigger displacement engine vs small, the amount of energy needed is still pretty close in the real world (not EPA tests which are gamed by everyone anyway - at least the NA car companies). Does this mean the smaller engine works "harder?"
> 
> PL


This is true. Unless someone is trying to be Mario Andretti off every stop light or carrying a substantial load, neither would require enough engine output to even matter. Especially with the low gear ratios of the 8-speed that has such a close spread. If it was mated to a trans with less gears with a greater spread, then I would probably understand little.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

alacey said:


> You said and I quote
> 
> "The fact alone that the 4cylinder is going to work harder than the 6cylinder to accelerate, including a potential need for higher shifts."
> 
> Which what what I was laughing at. The fact alone that an engine is a 4 cylinder does not always mean it will work harder to accelerate than an engine with more displacement.


You may be :rofl:, and I understand the technicality, and how people on the internet like that. However, this is a BMW forum, talking about BMW diesels, comparing a 535d to maybe an X3, AND I referenced N47 and N57 in the same post. So.? I think reading between the lines will go a long ways, I'll keep working on making those lines closer...


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

dzlbimmer said:


> You may be :rofl:, and I understand the technicality, and how people on the internet like that. However, this is a BMW forum, talking about BMW diesels, comparing a 535d to maybe an X3, AND I referenced N47 and N57 in the same post. So.? I think reading between the lines will go a long ways, I'll keep working on making those lines closer...


Lets recap.

I asked "How exactly does a electronically controlled turbo work harder on a 4 cylinder versus a 6 cylinder?" meaning a general of all 4 cyl versus 6 cyl engines since that was being implied.

You quoted my question and said "The fact alone that the 4cylinder is going to work harder than the 6cylinder to accelerate" which was why I laughed.

So since my question was in general of all engines, I took your answer as the same. So yes, work on keeping those lines closer.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

alacey said:


> Lets recap.
> 
> I asked "How exactly does a electronically controlled turbo work harder on a 4 cylinder versus a 6 cylinder?" meaning a general of all 4 cyl versus 6 cyl engines since that was being implied.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

To the OP: yes, your commute sounds like a good one for a diesel car. I'm getting mid-high 30's in my 535dx but my commute is a bit shorter (2+12+0 instead of your 2+35+2). So it's reasonable to think you could sniff 40 mpg if you drive carefully. And there are hitches available so you could mount a bike carrier if needed.

Oh, and there is plenty of room inside and the trunk is generous. My wife and I recently moved both of my kids to college (separately) in my F10 535d and, while a tight squeeze for my daughter and her stuff, there was enough room to get the job done. For my son we didn't even need to use the roof bag. What the heck are people packing that they can't do a weekend trip for four in a sedan??


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

jck66 said:


> To the OP: yes, your commute sounds like a good one for a diesel car. I'm getting mid-high 30's in my 535dx but my commute is a bit shorter (2+12+0 instead of your 2+35+2). So it's reasonable to think you could sniff 40 mpg if you drive carefully. And there are hitches available so you could mount a bike carrier if needed.
> 
> Oh, and there is plenty of room inside and the trunk is generous. My wife and I recently moved both of my kids to college (separately) in my F10 535d and, while a tight squeeze for my daughter and her stuff, there was enough room to get the job done. For my son we didn't even need to use the roof bag. What the heck are people packing that they can't do a weekend trip for four in a sedan??


It depends are two kids toddlers or do not require car seats, diapers etc. What is location where they live. People live in some remote areas or have to drive through one so they pack more. What is weekend trip? 50s or 300mls?

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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

Weekend trips if long distance are done in the minivan. If I take the bike it's just me. Only distance with kids in the weekend is when wife has minivan and is working and I transport them within 30 mile range.

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## Enthusiast 456 (Jun 23, 2014)

The other advantage not often mentioned is RANGE.

I never get less than 600 miles on a tank. That is a LOT of travel.

I've looked (briefly) at the specs for the 3-Series hybrid, but even it comes nowhere close to the diesel's incredible range.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

Pakiwi said:


> Weekend trips if long distance are done in the minivan. If I take the bike it's just me. Only distance with kids in the weekend is when wife has minivan and is working and I transport them within 30 mile range.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Bimmerfest mobile app


Well, if you have minivan get yourself M240i with stick 

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## rjbenson83 (Jul 12, 2015)

how are you guys getting this incredible gas mileage? 

I have a 328D and I average 35-36mpg. I commute twice a week 120 miles each way, but in town most of my trips are under 10 non highway miles. 


The best range I've gotten on a single tank was 700 miles. But for the most part I get 450 miles on 13-14 gallons before I fill up again 
(w/ 60-80 miles of range left).


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## Pierre Louis (Oct 23, 2011)

rjbenson83 said:


> how are you guys getting this incredible gas mileage?
> 
> I have a 328D and I average 35-36mpg. I commute twice a week 120 miles each way, but in town most of my trips are under 10 non highway miles.
> 
> ...


With my 2016 535d, I am light on the brakes - learned this in my Suburban and motor-home days - and decent on the throttle although I don't "drive it like I stole it."

My car computer is consistently at 35.8 mpg - for 2014 BMW re-engineered their inline 6 diesel and included many fuel-economy related changes.

PL


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## alacey (Mar 14, 2018)

rjbenson83 said:


> how are you guys getting this incredible gas mileage?
> 
> I have a 328D and I average 35-36mpg. I commute twice a week 120 miles each way, but in town most of my trips are under 10 non highway miles.
> 
> ...


You must do a lot of city driving. Most of my miles are highway and back country roads. I don't use Eco-pro or drive like a grandma, but I do is coast to a stop anytime I can when city driving letting the downshifts of the transmission slow me down instead of my brake.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

rjbenson83 said:


> how are you guys getting this incredible gas mileage?


Maybe try diesel instead of gas? 

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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

@rjbenson, driving style has a lot to do with MPG's. My wife barely squeaks 20 mpg out of her 528i and she has a 10-mile commute (mixed between city, highway, and crawling down the highway in stop & go traffic...) But she's heavy on the pedals and in particular doesn't anticipate stopping far enough in advance to avoid using lots of braking (not that I would point this out to her). Think of "braking" as "wasting the fuel that got you going in the first place" - it helps me.

I'll bet if you did your 120 mile jaunts at 60 or 65 mph you'd see very favorable numbers. I am assuming you typically drive faster than that (based on my experience driving in Mass.).


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## jck66 (Nov 28, 2017)

edycol said:


> It depends are two kids toddlers or do not require car seats, diapers etc. What is location where they live. People live in some remote areas or have to drive through one so they pack more. What is weekend trip? 50s or 300mls?


Yeah, fair points. In addition we must be light packers in my family - my wife drove an E36 coupe while the kids were young enough for car seats. Fortunately they weren't both rear-facing at the same time!


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## 469439 (Oct 14, 2015)

I drive a 2008 328xi and would have not considered buying a diesel powered car from any maker.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

jck66 said:


> Yeah, fair points. In addition we must be light packers in my family - my wife drove an E36 coupe while the kids were young enough for car seats. Fortunately they weren't both rear-facing at the same time!


I drove Yugo to European championship in tennis with three other guys and our stuff 965km one direction. 
So, anything is possible. Now I have X5 and it is small for kid, wife and me. I am like: WTF?

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## FredoinSF (Nov 29, 2009)

edycol said:


> I drove Yugo to European championship in tennis with three other guys and our stuff 965km one direction.
> So, anything is possible. Now I have X5 and it is small for kid, wife and me. I am like: WTF?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You've turned into a materialistic, crap accumulating, kid life conforming American. Deal with it.

My mother used to run my brother and I around in a late 70s mini when we were kids back in France. After a few years In the US she declared she was done with sardine cans and 3 pedals. Her terms. Reality is after 23 years in the US she's been back in France for 13 years and drives a stick cuz Dad is cheap and thinks it makes them both better drivers at their age (mid 70s). She complains about it, but I think he's on to something.

Moral is, if you wait long enough, your kids might leave the house and you might drive a real car again.

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## Proconsul (Aug 2, 2015)

My fuel tank lasts longer than my bladder these days, so range is not critical to me unless traveling across the Kalahari, although my 3.0 petrol Q7 reports a range of 550+ usually when I fill up, sometimes returning close to 30 mpg highway. Almost comparable to my X5d with 600+ and 35+ highway.


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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

Proconsul said:


> My fuel tank lasts longer than my bladder these days, so range is not critical to me unless traveling across the Kalahari, although my 3.0 petrol Q7 reports a range of 550+ usually when I fill up, sometimes returning close to 30 mpg highway. Almost comparable to my X5d with 600+ and 35+ highway.


You get 35 mpg in the X5.
That's more of a possibility if that's the case and I saw that on my 95 percent highway driving

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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

FredoinSF said:


> You've turned into a materialistic, crap accumulating, kid life conforming American. Deal with it.
> 
> My mother used to run my brother and I around in a late 70s mini when we were kids back in France. After a few years In the US she declared she was done with sardine cans and 3 pedals. Her terms. Reality is after 23 years in the US she's been back in France for 13 years and drives a stick cuz Dad is cheap and thinks it makes them both better drivers at their age (mid 70s). She complains about it, but I think he's on to something.
> 
> ...


Lol you are onto something. Though I still refuse to go through drive through and after I trade in X5 for some family car I am getting 335i or 135i with stick.

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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

edycol said:


> Lol you are onto something. Though I still refuse to go through drive through and after I trade in X5 for some family car I am getting 335i or 135i with stick.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For me, it's diesel vehicles ONLY. Absolutely no more gassers if I can help it.

I am a diehard manual driver and will always prefer a manual if I can get it in a vehicle I want. My VW TDIs owned from 2002 - 2014 were manuals. A manual transmission was an absolutely no exceptions must have in my TDIs and also in gassers I owned years ago.

Fast forward to today... while I will always prefer a manual if I can get it, if I were forced to choose between a diesel automatic or a gasoline manual, I will take the diesel automatic. With my driving around 1k miles per week, whatever I own and drive absolutely HAS to be DIESEL powered. Gassers are not an option at all. I have never owned a gasoline BMW... and won't.

Automatics have improved a lot in recent years. The extra low end grunt from the diesel's superior torque characteristics works well with a modern automatic. I use SPORT mode almost exclusively in my cars. While I will always prefer a manual transmission, I found I can also live with a diesel automatic.

Absolutely NO MORE GASSERS for me. 

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## Proconsul (Aug 2, 2015)

n1das said:


> For me, it's diesel vehicles ONLY. Absolutely no more gassers if I can help it.
> 
> I am a diehard manual driver and will always prefer a manual if I can get it in a vehicle I want. My VW TDIs owned from 2002 - 2014 were manuals. A manual transmission was an absolutely no exceptions must have in my TDIs and also in gassers I owned years ago.
> 
> ...


Wasn't clear on that last post. Are you saying you prefer driving cars with diesel engines rather than gasoline?


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Proconsul said:


> Wasn't clear on that last post. Are you saying you prefer driving cars with diesel engines rather than gasoline?


Absolutely! Absolutely no more gassers for me ever again if I can help it. I plan to own only DIESEL vehicles. I base my decision on 16 years and over 900k miles of diesel car ownership experience. I am way too addicted to the diesel's TORQUE and efficiency to ever want to go back to anything that runs on gasoline. It has been more than 10 years since I last owned a gasoline car. Very soon after getting your first diesel car, you realize that owning and driving anything that runs on gasoline no longer makes sense. It's sort of like a change of religion.

I drive a lot, around 1k miles/week and I also like to drive. The miles add up due to my 100 mile/day highway commute plus having a life outside of work. I don't view 100k miles on a car to be high miles at all since that represents a little under 2 years of driving for me. I split the miles up between my 2012 X5 35d and my 2014 535d. If my 535d were my only car, it would already have close to 300k miles on it by now. A diesel car fits my particular use case better than anything else.

Driving is something I look forward to doing and part of why I like BMWs. I don't view driving as a hassle and a car as something simply to get me from point A to point B. I would never be happy in an econobox or "transportation appliance" type car. I have owned a few transportation appliances (Hondas) in the past when I was younger. Never again.

Given that I drive a lot, I tend to gravitate toward a "driver's car" type of car like most of us here. The problem is a driver's car type of car comes with an unacceptable fuel economy hit for my 1k miles/week of driving. I need good fuel economy too. To get better fuel economy, that usually means downsizing the car or downsizing the performance and driving like an old fahrt to get the fuel economy. I also don't want to drive anything where the car "trains the driver" to drive it for MPGs. I just want to DRIVE and drive spiritedly. Downsizing to a gasoline econobox (read: penalty box) is not an option. While there are plenty of gassers out there that can deliver better fuel economy than my BMW diesels, they aren't cars I want to drive and none of them have the kick of a turbo. There's more to it than fuel economy alone. The mileage a Toyota Prius gets for example is laughable considering what a penalty box the car is to drive.

With a modern turbodiesel car, I like not having to downsize the car or downsize the performance to get the fuel economy. I like being able to have my cake an eat it too. The low end grunt from the diesel's torque characteristics is addictive. It makes the car drive 100% better overall in situations encountered in everyday driving. The old phrase "people by horsepower but drive TORQUE" says it all. While I like to drive spiritedly like most BMW owners, I never bought a diesel car to win drag races. Overall driveability under real world driving conditions matters more to me than winning drag races. The diesel's better fuel economy under real world driving conditions compared to the gassers comes as a bonus.

I stopped using gasoline in my cars 16 years ago. I am absolutely not going back to gasoline again if I can help it.


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## dzlbimmer (Jul 16, 2017)

n1das said:


> Driving is something I look forward to doing and part of why I like BMWs. I don't view driving as a hassle and a car as something simply to get me from point A to point B.


In addition to this, I always consider a vehicle as a safety cage. With X5's your safety cage is also incredibly agile, benefiting an aware driver. VAG diesel SUVs have some comparison here in my opinion, Mercedes a bit light feedback-wise. European cars have superior corrosion resistance and active/passive safety innovations and strategies in general compared to the rest of the market. 
Anyway, the more miles you put on a car, the higher the likeliness can be that someone will hit you. I'm about as happy as I could be with X5 in this regard. Sport or otherwise deep supportive seats I also believe to be helpful in some collisions.


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## Pakiwi (Nov 25, 2014)

Totally agree about the X5 and the added safety with it being larger.
That's the one reason I would buy it. I have to say even with it being a larger vehicle and additional maintenance costs, the comfort and safety of the X5 almost seals the deal.
On occasion. I share the ride with a guy that lives by me. He drives a 40mpg Honda Civic. Yes the economy is better but I honestly wouldn't drive it with the added risk in an accident and comfort.
Maybe I'm a snob, but I now have the choice and am fine picking a Diesel BMW.
I think his next car will be a BMW as he has enjoyed the times he has driven mine.
Allan

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## fattoadray (Sep 11, 2018)

Love the power of the 335d. Hate the lack of storage under the trunk floor due to exhaust and DEF tanks.


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