# How are 'old' E46s holding up



## TD330ci (Dec 29, 2001)

*01 330ci 14 months!!*

Rattle, Rattle, creak, moan ect...

Got a little worse after installing the UUC sways, but still there were rattles before.

Besides that, fixed speaker rattle and a torn window mirror seal was replaced.


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## GregE_325 (Jan 16, 2002)

Joose,

Please don't let my gripes about the rattles worry you. I regularly have to drive over some barely paved country roads. It's pretty tough on the car, and the driver too.  That is when I hear the rattles. On the interstate or on nicer roads, the car doesn't make any noise.
The car is very solid, as well as safe. My first 325, which I bought back in June, was t-boned by a Ford F-150 4x4 truck the day after I bought it (he ran the red light). The impact was in excess of 50 mph, and I walked away with just a couple of scrapes and bruises (not to mention a lot of soreness the day after). 
I would definitely recommend a BMW to you. Not only are they fun to drive, the will protect you when some ******* does something stupid like crash into you.
Hope this helps.

-- Greg


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## Joose (Jan 11, 2002)

I understand that they are relatively safe automobile, but as i said before I go through cars fast because of little things that bug me. I want to find a car that I'm going to enjoy, keep for along time, and not have to worry about little things like those.

So far Audi and BMW have been the closest to what im looking for. I had an Audi before and I really liked it, but it was just way too slow. It was a 97 and had very little creaks or rattles and thats what I like about it. After driving my friends MY2000 328ci I fell in love with it. I've wanted one ever since.

Also, I dont want Audi because I dont want All-Wheel drive. Its not nearly as fun a RWD. My other friends audi a6 2.7t went through 3 clutches by 10k miles. If your hard on the car, the clutch goes.

ok now im babbling... sorry


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## GregE_325 (Jan 16, 2002)

Joose,

Your concerns are understandable. I had many of them myself before I decided to buy the BMW. German cars in general will require more "care and feeding" than other types of cars, namely Honda and Toyota. But the driving experience generally outweighs the little things that sometimes crop up. 
There are a couple of well know rattles, like the HK speakers and front seatbelt mounts. But those, if they appear, can be fixed. In my case, the car simply gets bounced around quite a bit on marginal roads. So my experience is not typical. Putting additional wear and tear (and mileage) on my car is simply the price I pay for living out in the "country". 

Hope this helps.

-- Greg


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## LeucX3 (Dec 26, 2001)

I can't wait until my car is 7 years old. Not only will i have been without car pmts for a year by then, but i like the thought of owning a car for a long time. I almost did that with a 96 Jetta GLX that i had, but i sold it once i got a job right after moving to SD in 2000. Sometimes i think i should have held on to that for a little while longer.

But i've had three cars since i've been here, so i cant' really complain. 01 GTI GLX and 98 Audi A4 step, in that order. I really got nailed on trade-in values, but oh well.


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## Joose (Jan 11, 2002)

GregE_325 said:


> *Joose,
> German cars in general will require more "care and feeding" than other types of cars, namely Honda and Toyota.
> 
> -- Greg *


I dont quite get what this is supposed to mean. So i'm going to have more problems with a german car than i would say a honda?

I'm going to be leasing the car so my main concern will be the creaks and rattles. For some reason, this is what makes me want to sell cars more than anything else. I dont want to be 3 months into the lease and being stuck with a something i cant stand because its rattling so much.  I dont mind if its something bmw can fix if i can take it in.

I agree with you on the fact that the overall joy of driving is more important so hopefully its as fun to drive as what everyone says. I havent been able to test drive one, i wont let myself drive one till my current car at least sells. All i know is I cant wait.


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## bmw325 (Dec 19, 2001)

*Joose --although you may get the impression*

that the 3 series has tons of random and uncontrollable rattles- that's actually not true. The car's interior is very quiet, and there are few poorly designed "problem areas"" that cause about 99% of the complaints. THe coupe and convertible have more rattle areas than the sedan. If you're comparing to an A4- people on the A4 board report a similar number of rattle problem areas. Fortunately, they're known, and there are known fixes for all of them.

1. HK Rattle: 2 solutions: 1. line the rear plastic vent underneatht the rear window/ felt. 2. Stuff foam into the rear deck (I believe #1 is now the preferred method).

2. B pillar rattle from seatbelt: THere is a TSB to add a spacer- but this can also be fixed with some felt adter taking apart the B pillar (easy to do for you or the dealer).

3. Fold-down seat squeaks: SPray some silcon on the leather where the 2 sides of the seat contact each other.

Additionally, on the coupes,
1. The doors have several rattles that can be fixed with some felt-- believe most dealers know how to do this by now. There are also door seal problems but I think this was finally fixed for the 02s.

Personally, I've only experienced #2, and have 1 other subtle rattle that only comes up on very harsh roads. Some of the plastic around the steering wheel makes noise as it is expanding after turning the heat on during a cold morning-- but this only lasts a few seconds.

The only problem I've seen reported on 02's so far is the HK rattle- but again, this is very fixable.

You'll see an occasional "one-off" post now and then about a unique noise- but this is very seldom.

I regularly browse other car message boards like IS300.net, and Audiworld, and see a similar number of complaints about a different set of rattles and creaks. If you want to have a completely quiet car of the shelf, you'll probably be limited to Japanese family sedans and Acura and Lexus luxury cars (except for the IS). I say this because these cars have well designed interior trim, but are also more softly sprung-- which reduces the amount of vibration and shock that can trigger rattles. The A4, IS and 3 all have tight suspensions that can bring out rattles more. Like you, rattles greatly diminish my joy in the car- but if you want anything in the sports or sporty category- you're probably going to have to take that chance.


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## Joose (Jan 11, 2002)

*Re: Joose --although you may get the impression*



robg said:


> *
> I regularly browse other car message boards like IS300.net, and Audiworld, and see a similar number of complaints about a different set of rattles and creaks. If you want to have a completely quiet car of the shelf, you'll probably be limited to Japanese family sedans and Acura and Lexus luxury cars (except for the IS). I say this because these cars have well designed interior trim, but are also more softly sprung-- which reduces the amount of vibration and shock that can trigger rattles. The A4, IS and 3 all have tight suspensions that can bring out rattles more. Like you, rattles greatly diminish my joy in the car- but if you want anything in the sports or sporty category- you're probably going to have to take that chance. *


Thanks for your opinions, I feel a little better now.

Acura has quite a few problems that i've seen. My old man has a Acura TL and he has quite a few rattles let alone the rubber on the door handles coming apart from the excessive heat here in Arizona.


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## Laura (Dec 30, 2001)

I've had my 323Ci since Dec 17, of '99. Its running fine but has had its share of the minor problems everyone else has seen.

Driver's door seal replaced 3 times.

Final stage resister in heating fan replaced

Thermostat went bad, replaced

plastic hold down for the jack broken, replaced

Moonroof guides broken but haven't had a chance to get fixed


This is all with just 11000 miles.

Laura


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## DaveN323i (Jan 17, 2002)

*Desides all these issues*

I think I may be the only one here who had this replaced:
The flashlight. It would not recharge.
How many of you guys use the flashlight at all?


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## RichNY (Jan 19, 2002)

*'99 328i delivered 11/98 doing well!*

I have about 35k miles on my '99 328i delivered 11/98. It's only been back to the dealer once for an unscheduled service - a bad airbag harness that was promptly replaced. Still feels very well put together even with a stiffer Dinan Stage II suspension installed.

I love the car and haven't once thought about needing to upgrade. I expect the car to go up to 100k miles before I need something new.


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## wickeduro (Dec 20, 2001)

My sedan was a first batch E46> I took delivery in Nov 98. The clock has just read 46thou. and its doing fine.
Yes, my car rattles a bit, but it seems like its the nature of the beast. No other problems and the motor seems stronger than the day I bought it.

An E46 coming off of a lease is a great buy IMO.


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

wickeduro said:


> *
> 
> <snip>
> 
> An E46 coming off of a lease is a great buy IMO. *


Ick!

I'd never buy an off lease car. Someone essentially rents a car for two or three years, probably beats the shit out if it, does minimal maintenance, then gives it back to the dealer who details it and puts it out on the lot. They CPO it, which jacks up the price, and if something goes wrong, you have to fight with the dealer to see if they'll let it be fixed under the CPO warrantee. Remember the warrantee if against manufacturer's defects the the previous owners abuse.

I would buy an E46 used, but from an individual, preferrably someone I knew, and who could document the maintenance. I'd also have the car inspected to the highest degree possible.


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

MikeW said:


> *
> I'd never buy an off lease car. Someone essentially rents a car for two or three years, probably beats the shit out if it, does minimal maintenance, then gives it back to the dealer who details it and puts it out on the lot. *


Minimal maintenance---- What maintenance? With the synthetic in the engine from the factory and long-life fluids, a 3 year old lease car has had 2 oil changes at most.

While we can argue the benefits of more frequent oil changes, I'm sure that little harm is done by following the factory's oil change interval. No other real maintenance is done during the first couple of years. So unless you get a high mileage off-lease car, it's fairly safe to not worry about it a whole lot.

As for beating leased BMW's, how many E46's do you see that are actually driven hard? From my observation, most of them are lady driven cars that are loafing at 15% of their potential. I'd rather buy a car that is driven regularly, driven hard the way it was meant to be (not abused!) over some never driven, cream puff.

But then again, I've never bought a used car from anyone.


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

I dunno. I keep thinking about this guy I met who was about to turn in his leased E36 M3. He loved the car, so I asked him why he didn't keep it. His answer: he beat the shit out of it, and didn't want it around when things start going wrong.

With a off lease car, you know nothing about the previous owner and/or how it was driven or maintained. They do tend to be newer than a car being sold by individuals, but you pay for that in a higher price.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

creaks and rattle galore! especially in the winter. summer and it's difficult to close coupe doors. need new weatherstripping. 

oct99 build 323ci


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## egruber (Dec 23, 2001)

We have a 2000 323i. Only problems were a vacuum line that caused the Service Engine Light to go on..and we had some front end parts replaced as part of a TSB. No rattles.

We also have a 2001 325CiC. With the top up, we have some rattles from the roof mechanism which we can't seem to find. But I guess you can't expect a rattle free convertible. Otherwise it's been great.


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## Andre Yew (Jan 3, 2002)

I've had my 2000 328Ci since March of 2000, so it will be 2 years old in 2 months. The following things have been done to it:

1. thermostat replacement (broke before recall was effected)
2. moonroof clips broke
3. brake job for all four wheels at about 19k miles (see below for explanation)
4. 2 oil changes, one at 7500 miles, and another at service indicator interval (about 14k miles)
5. Change tires at 15k miles or thereabouts (see below for explanation).
6. One brake fluid flush.
7. A few paint chips from rocks.

There is one persistent rattle which the dealer's had problems reproducing at their shop --- the front passenger window rattles when it's fully up. If I let it down a hair, the rattle subsides greatly or disappears. Pressing on the airbag badge on that door also stops the rattling. Squeaks from the folddown rears are also audible. Occasional creak when backing out of my garage down a gentle grade.

The brakes that came with the car have been through 3 driving schools at Laguna Seca, and 2 at Buttonwillow. In fact, at the third Laguna Seca school, I had to go looking for some front pads because I'd worn mine down to a nub. Before the 4th school at Laguna Seca, I changed all four rotors, and pads. The front rotors had about 0.08 inches before reaching minimum thickness, while the rears had about 0.1 inches. I changed all four to be as safe as possible because Laguna's hard on brakes.

The stock tires went through the same treatment (2 less schools), but were really beaten up by 3 or 4 car control clinics, especially the skidpad. The outside edges of the front tires were basically bald, and the car understeered more than usual. I replaced them with Yokohama AVS Sports, and love the Yokos. They are very controllable at the limit, and break loose in a very smooth, creamy fashion. They're a little too loud when cold, but quiet up after you've been driving them for a while. I haven't had the heart to abuse the Yokos on a skidpad yet. 

I love the car, and it's way more car than driver right now. The plan is to learn how to drive in this car, so I won't kill myself when I get an M3 in 3 years.

--Andre


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## MikeW (Dec 20, 2001)

Wow. This thread is working out well. 
There's alot of useful information in here.

Thanks guys.

Mike


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