# Beware - New Biodiesel Pump Sticker at Station Today



## Savheagle (Jul 2, 2011)

I live in S.E. Georgia. Went to Flash Foods (regional C-Store Chain) to pump diesel this a.m. as this is my normal fill up location. Noticed a new, very small (approx 3 inch by 2 inch) sticker on pump saying, "Biodiesel Blend" and stating that the diesel "is between 5 and 20 biodiesel blend" Checked with the manager on duty, (I know, that was an exercise in futility) and got the blank stare and "Whaaaat?" question....told her to give me back my card, can't use your fuel any longer. I know a lot of C-Stores and chains get fuel from same jobbers in a region so be on the lookout for changes in biodiesel levels where ever you pump. I am glad I am in habit of looking at all of the stickers on the pumps before I start pumping it - regardless of whether it is normal pumping location.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

We need to elect a new Congress that will stop catering to the farm lobby and hopefully they will approve a pipeline so we can buy more oil from allies, like maybe Canada?


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## DnA Diesel (Jul 31, 2010)

rmorin49 said:


> We need to elect a new Congress that will stop catering to the farm lobby and hopefully they will approve a pipeline so we can buy more oil from allies, like maybe Canada?


Hate to say it, but if the Keystone XL pipeline silliness continues and you guys...or more accurately, your federal government doesn't want our oil, we'll have to consider accepting purchase of our oil from those willing to come get it (hint, they speak Mandarin). Then you guys will need to use even more farmland to make bio, and increase your imports of oil from Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Nigeria, Sudan, and all those other friendly folks...


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Savheagle said:


> Noticed a new, very small (approx 3 inch by 2 inch) sticker on pump saying, "Biodiesel Blend" and stating that the diesel "is between 5 and 20 biodiesel blend"


If you have a chance to capture an image, please post it!


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Actually, US federal subsidies for ethanol were killed just a few days ago as congress failed to renew them.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

Not long ago I filled up at a Sunoco station near Boston that had a pump labeled "5% Biodiesel".Knowing that my Bluetec (and the BMW "d") allow 5% I was OK with that.Oil companies (or is it state/Federal legislators?) *must* know that recent diesels in this country only allow up to 5%.Warranty claims will probably be fun as this 5%-20% diesel becomes more common.


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## Pat_X5 (Aug 23, 2008)

Oh yeah and how come we BMW owners have to get stuck on 5% or lower ?
Why do I see Ford Powerstroke diesels that take up to 20% BD ?


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Pat_X5 said:


> Oh yeah and how come we BMW owners have to get stuck on 5% or lower ?


Engine oil dilution courtesy of the DPF regen process; read this thread: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465736&highlight=

P.S. I think later model d's have a 7% limitation printed on their fuel caps.


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## listerone (Jul 21, 2009)

Pat_X5 said:


> Why do I see Ford Powerstroke diesels that take up to 20% BD ?


Different emissions systems.


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## Alpine300ZHP (Jan 31, 2007)

3ismagic# said:


> Actually, US federal subsidies for ethanol were killed just a few days ago as congress failed to renew them.


:drink::clap::freakdanc


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

As long as its about B5, your car will benefit from the biodiesel.


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Back on topic, it's sucks that you can't tell what the blend is. Might want to ask the distributor


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

I wish BMWNA would give us an update on there stance regarding biodiesel.


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## bmw_n00b13 (Feb 15, 2008)

3ismagic# said:


> Actually, US federal subsidies for ethanol were killed just a few days ago as congress failed to renew them.


They killed the subsidies, not the requirements. Look for insanely expensive ethanol in your future.


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## Axel61 (Mar 10, 2011)

That sucks


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## TDIwyse (Sep 17, 2010)

Same situation where I'm at. I posted this awhile back. Has pics of the sticker.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539780

I've been doing UOA's and not finding any issues with oil dilution.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

This fiasco will not help diesel sales in the US. In western MD the difference between the cost of diesel and premium gasoline is now approaching $0.50/gallon.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

rmorin49 said:


> This fiasco will not help diesel sales in the US. In western MD the difference between the cost of diesel and premium gasoline is now approaching $0.50/gallon.


What is the difference compared to regular unleaded? I have read predictions of gas getting back to $4 later in 2012. If that happens then I might get to enjoy near $5 diesel again.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

bmw_n00b13 said:


> They killed the subsidies, not the requirements. Look for insanely expensive ethanol in your future.


I thought the requirement for ethanol died a long time ago. Remember reading about it in some boating forum where they were discussing how to get non blended gas


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

rmorin49 said:


> This fiasco will not help diesel sales in the US. In western MD the difference between the cost of diesel and premium gasoline is now approaching $0.50/gallon.


The difference to you East was 30-40 cents, but in the past week its dropped to the 20-30 cent range.


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## AndyX5d (Apr 1, 2012)

I'm in the Chicago area, and as of right now the only stations that I can go to and not see the 5% to 20% blend is Shell. And they don't have any stickers saying anything so I assume that means that it has no bio fuel mixed in. Of course it could also mean they just don't put the sticker on. I stopped at three different stations today and wound up going out of my way to get to a shell. Citgo, Mobil, and Thortens, all had the 5-20% blend stickers. So is the general idea that it is OK to use this, or what?


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

The answer is a solid Maybe.

BMW first said no more than 5%, but when the EC regs allowed 7% BMW changed their recommended maximum to 7%. So, with that as BMW's formal position, you really can't say for sure. On the plus side, a B20 diesel is likely to be a higher cetane and come closer to BMW's recommended Cetane level.

Luckily, I live North of Chicago and often make trips to Wisconsin. With 500+ mile to the tank, I almost always just fill-up in Wisconsin.

http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-engine_manufacturers/oem-warranty-positions.pdf?sfvrsn=2

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/biodiesel_blends.html

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37136.pdf

But, in the end, thanks to Illinois legislators, most BMW diesel owner's in Illinois will have to use fuel that BMW says should not be used in their diesel engines.

I suspect that BMW will, within the next 2-4 years, approve the use of B20 diesel without any modifications whatsoever to their engines -- BMW is one of the slowest to react companies I've dealt with.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

I *think* all BMW really would have to do is change their recommended OCI to account for the higher percentage of bio, but of course that creates more cost for BMW while the car is under warranty, not to mention the variability of bio percentages around the country.


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## AndyX5d (Apr 1, 2012)

thanks for the links Penguin. I also live North of the city and make weekly trips to WI for work. I guess I'll have to look around up there to see what's available. The station I typically use up there doesn't carry diesel so I'll have to find another local station. I have found that the shell stations in Libertyville (one on 137 and one at 176 and Milwaukee ave) have diesel pumps that have no indication of being blended. These are the stations that I have set as my go to stations. It seems that if I'm in a bind and need to refuel it won't harm anything to use the 5 -20% blends. 
Looks like maybe I should look into a cetane additive for the summer when I'm going to be towing my boat. The only place I've actually seen the cetane level listed was at a Citco and it said it was guaranteed to be over 40, but that still seems low.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I do not think one company gurantees over 40-42 but a lot of them sell well over that. I'd research it before doing an additive solely for the hopes of more cetane. I was very surprised when I found out the cetane levels actually being sold in my region due to State emissions reasons.


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## wanderlust (Feb 19, 2012)

Mine says B7 is ok.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

They changed the stamp from B5 to B7 at some point. I doubt anything with card changed at all though.


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

AndyX5d said:


> thanks for the links Penguin. I also live North of the city and make weekly trips to WI for work. I guess I'll have to look around up there to see what's available. The station I typically use up there doesn't carry diesel so I'll have to find another local station. I have found that the shell stations in Libertyville (one on 137 and one at 176 and Milwaukee ave) have diesel pumps that have no indication of being blended.


FYI, both the Shell and the BP stations immediately off the exit of I-94 and Hwy 50 in WI have diesel.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

AndyX5d said:


> I'm in the Chicago area, and as of right now the only stations that I can go to and not see the 5% to 20% blend is Shell. And they don't have any stickers saying anything so I assume that means that it has no bio fuel mixed in. Of course it could also mean they just don't put the sticker on. I stopped at three different stations today and wound up going out of my way to get to a shell. Citgo, Mobil, and Thortens, all had the 5-20% blend stickers. So is the general idea that it is OK to use this, or what?


Go to the dealership that sold you the vehicle (presumably in IL) and ask them to put something in writing regarding the difficulty in obtaining fuel that meets the car manufacturer's requirements locally. It would be interesting to see what you can get out of them in terms of warranty support should anything happen down the line.

By the way- ASTM spec diesel can have up to 5% biodiesel content without any labeling requirement.


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## AndyX5d (Apr 1, 2012)

d geek, that's a great idea. 

Penguin, thanks for the tip.


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

d geek said:


> Go to the dealership that sold you the vehicle (presumably in IL) and ask them to put something in writing regarding the difficulty in obtaining fuel that meets the car manufacturer's requirements locally.


Why go looking for trouble and document that you are knowingly using fuel that does not meet BMW requirements? The last thing I would do is put anything on the record that I was not using fuel meeting BMW specs. Whatever you might get from the dealership will most certainly be written such that it is helpful to BMW with any future claims, and not the owner.


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## wanderlust (Feb 19, 2012)

Snipe656 said:


> They changed the stamp from B5 to B7 at some point. I doubt anything with card changed at all though.


I wonder if they actually test anything or its some committee who decides stuff like this out of the blue.


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## dThree35 (Mar 23, 2012)

I hear what you guys are saying and "let's be practical" and all that.... but when the service manual for my 11 335d lumps B10 / B20 in with gasoline  it gives one reason to pause.

I came across an Exxon yesterday that I have used before that now has a may contain 5% Biodiesel sticker. I pumped. No way though on the 5-20 pumps as long as I have a choice. Or until I get warranty dispensation. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

dThree35 said:


> I came across an Exxon yesterday that I have used before that now has a may contain 5% Biodiesel sticker. I pumped.


Depending on what part of Texas you live in then up to B5 is now the norm at the pumps. Here in the Houston area that is all you are going to get and if the sticker is not there that is simply the fault of whomever should be putting the sticker up. I just drove to Grapevine and back last weekend and saw the same stickers as far north as Fairfield. I know my friend in Grapevine claims to never seen any biodiesel stickers when filling up his F350.


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## dThree35 (Mar 23, 2012)

This Exxon was in Cedar Park, Tx north of Austin.

The pumps at the Shell station I frequent in Houston have no Bio labels of any kind. Of course that means nothing :irate:. B5 I'm not concerned about (the cap on my '11 says B7 as others have mentioned).



Snipe656 said:


> Depending on what part of Texas you live in then up to B5 is now the norm at the pumps. Here in the Houston area that is all you are going to get and if the sticker is not there that is simply the fault of whomever should be putting the sticker up. I just drove to Grapevine and back last weekend and saw the same stickers as far north as Fairfield. I know my friend in Grapevine claims to never seen any biodiesel stickers when filling up his F350.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

The stickers can be hard to see too. They are not standarized on font size, color, or style plus the background color is not standardized. Couple stations I had to look hard for the sticker even though it was plain as day. I never go to Shell stations though so can't say I have seen one at those.


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## AndyX5d (Apr 1, 2012)

my outlook on it is this. I will continue to use the local Shell stations that don't have any stickers on the pump. I have to believe that it means that it is not mixed with any bio material and is safe to use. Also if I am away from my known local stations, I will try to find a station that has either no bio, or a sticker that indicates it is up to 5% mix. If I am low on fuel and all I can find is a pump that is marked as a 5 - 20% bio mix then I will go ahead and fill up, or at least get enough to make it home just so I don't risk running out of fuel. I do not have the position that I should fill up with the unknown 5 - 20% mix on a regular basis and will take the position of doing a better job managing my fuel levels and making sure that I don't leave my area with less fuel that what I will need for the day. In the end this is a lot more trouble than I imagined owning a diesel would present, but for now the fuel efficiency is outweighing any negatives the fuel situation is presenting. I do start to draw parallels with owning an electric vehicle and having to worry about when and where I will be able to refuel / recharge the vehicle.


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## dThree35 (Mar 23, 2012)

Yep, sensible strategy. Of course when it's your turn to drive on that weekend trip, having to plan fuel stops so as not to void your warranty really won't win over any diesel converts now will it? Hope the torque avalanche wins em over :thumbup:

Driving a diesel passenger car today requires a pioneering spirit, a personality or other character trait that predisposes one to owning a diesel. Could be an appreciation of the mechanical beauty of a diesel or the longevity etc.

I imagine owning a hybrid or electric similarly attracts a certain character set of owners. Not a show stopper but not a recipe for mainstream success. Then again VW and Merc are really moving diesels. And most buyers don't know anything more than "look for the green nozzle".



AndyX5d said:


> In the end this is a lot more trouble than I imagined owning a diesel would present, but for now the fuel efficiency is outweighing any negatives the fuel situation is presenting. I do start to draw parallels with owning an electric vehicle and having to worry about when and where I will be able to refuel / recharge the vehicle.


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## torifile (May 4, 2011)

Remember that even if you happen to get a 20% mix, you'll be alright if there's enough fuel in your tank to mix it down to 5%. If you're traveling away from home, just try to keep the ratios in balance.

A sidenote: when I was driving my Golf TDI, I never ran it on *less than* B20. Often it was B100. Not a single problem in the 80k+ miles. It was obviously a much less complex engine but it's worth keeping in mind. That said, I have been intentionally avoiding all the stations with biodiesel mixes. My 335 is too new with too much left on the warranty (and way more expensive to fix out of pocket than the VW) to risk for just a little biodiesel. 

Another thing to keep in mind, biodiesel has less energy/unit so you might see a drop in fuel economy if you use a blend. Probably not significant (my recollection is that B100 has about 15% less energy) in a lower %age mix.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

dThree35 said:


> Yep, sensible strategy. Of course when it's your turn to drive on that weekend trip, having to plan fuel stops so as not to void your warranty really won't win over any diesel converts now will it?


The day I get that worried about fuel on a car is the day I am going to realize I do not need that car. I worry about fuel but it is to a point, for example as much as I worry it did not stop me from filling up at a station that I could only label as "generic" for its brand fuel.

Driving a diesel passenger car today requires a pioneering spirit, a personality or other character trait that predisposes one to owning a diesel. Could be an appreciation of the mechanical beauty of a diesel or the longevity etc.



dThree35 said:


> Then again VW and Merc are really moving diesels. And most buyers don't know anything more than "look for the green nozzle".


I have a feeling a lot of the X5d owners I see on the roads here in town fit this description.


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