# Couples first ED in Sept itinerary help needed



## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

Hi everyone,

I read multiple ED trip itineraries but need some custom help.

I have 1 week to complete it from 09/1/-09/08. My wife and I would like to spend a bulk of our time in Switzerland. I was considering getting a multiple flight from NY to Munich and Zurich to NY or from Geneva to NY. 

Additionally the vehicle won't be available on the weekend as I have to drop it off the friday before my flight, leaving me with not vehicle on the weekend.

Please help with suggestion on my itinerary.


09/02:My flight is from NY on 09/1 and landing in Munich at 9am. I will probably not pick up the car due to jet lag and tour munich until my pick up the next morning.

09/03 - Pick up BMW, try to drive on the 'Ring and the Autobahn.

09/4 - Leave in the AM to Switzerland, probably straight to Geneva or Zurich undecided.

09/05 - Travel in Switzerland.

09/06 - try Paris?

09/07 - Drive to either Geneva, Zurich or fly out to Paris : unsure

09/08 fly out to NY


Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks!


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

*Need help with first ED in 1 week*

You can't "travel in Switzerland" for one day. No offense but that's just not possible. You need Three days alone for Lauterbrunnen valley and the Jungfraujoch area.

Pick up the car ASAP you'll be jazzed and jet lag probably won't be an issue from NY. I'd skip Paris. Again one day isn't enough time.

Have fun!

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

hatepotholez said:


> 09/05 - Travel in Switzerland.
> 
> 09/06 - try Paris?
> 
> ...


Paris can be done only under exceptional circumstances. For example, flying there by helicopter, giving a speech, fly out. Even if you take the fast TGV train Geneva-Paris, it takes time.

If you choose to fly out of Zurich, the trip can be done. Essentially, it would be a week from Munich to Zurich and some things in between.

If you really want to see Munich, Paris, and some places in Switzerland, it might be better to fly more. For example, fly to Paris, then to Munich, then drive to parts of Switzerland, then return the car in Zurich.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Forget Paris and Switzerland. Spend some time around Bavaria and enjoying the sites. It's also worth spending some time in Munich. Pay a daily pass for the transportation system. It is fantastic and you can see the whole city and even ride as far as Tutzing if you buy the pass for the whole system. A partner pass is a really good deal and you don't have to worry about parking your car. Ask and they will let you leave it in the underground garage at the Welt.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Timing is way off I think. For instance doing 5+ hour drive on your 2nd day is do-able, the Ring closes at 7pm-ish. 

Spend more time in Google Maps... plan it out more. If your goal is Switzerland, cut out Paris.


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## mrstas (Apr 4, 2008)

Listen to no one. Every person travels in their own way.

Some people prefer to see the one "most important" thing in each city, and then move on, having breathed the air and heard the sounds of a place. Others wish to explore each foreign land inch by inch, diving deeply into the history of each spot of dirt. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle between these two, some closer to one end, some to the other.

In my two European deliveries, each about 12 days, I wanted to get a shallow but wide European experience. Multiple languages, multiple cities, multiple countries. I bought a car, and my goal was to drive it! 

One important piece of advice: consider traffic, language barriers, tolls, weather, and police/customs/immigration stops. Take the driving time on Google Maps, and double it. Take one whole day for arrival, and one whole day for dropoff/departure. Then do whatever you want in between.


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## dandanio (Jun 20, 2008)

Completely unrealistic itinerary. Try to read up on driving in Europe/Alps/Switzerland and adjust. Forget about trying Paris - you WOULD NOT see a thing there. It is not what travelling is about... To show you how unrealistic your plans are: Munich -> 'Ring is about 5 hours *ONE WAY*.


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## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

You really have 4 driving days - 9/3 - 9/7, your plan covers way too much ground. I would fly back from Munich, and visit Berteschgaden, Salzburg, Vienna, and/or Prague.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

kjboyd said:


> You can't "travel in Switzerland" for one day. No offense but that's just not possible. You need Three days alone for Lauterbrunnen valley and the Jungfraujoch area.
> 
> Pick up the car ASAP you'll be jazzed and jet lag probably won't be an issue from NY. I'd skip Paris. Again one day isn't enough time.
> 
> ...


I will probably cancel Paris, Thanks!



Dave 20T said:


> Paris can be done only under exceptional circumstances. For example, flying there by helicopter, giving a speech, fly out. Even if you take the fast TGV train Geneva-Paris, it takes time.
> 
> If you choose to fly out of Zurich, the trip can be done. Essentially, it would be a week from Munich to Zurich and some things in between.
> 
> If you really want to see Munich, Paris, and some places in Switzerland, it might be better to fly more. For example, fly to Paris, then to Munich, then drive to parts of Switzerland, then return the car in Zurich.


Ok, I'll research this more. Thanks!



rmorin49 said:


> Forget Paris and Switzerland. Spend some time around Bavaria and enjoying the sites. It's also worth spending some time in Munich. Pay a daily pass for the transportation system. It is fantastic and you can see the whole city and even ride as far as Tutzing if you buy the pass for the whole system. A partner pass is a really good deal and you don't have to worry about parking your car. Ask and they will let you leave it in the underground garage at the Welt.


I can't forget Switzerland, if I was with my friends then yea, but i'm going with my wife and the focus is Switzerland, everything else comes second.



alee said:


> Timing is way off I think. For instance doing 5+ hour drive on your 2nd day is do-able, the Ring closes at 7pm-ish.
> 
> Spend more time in Google Maps... plan it out more. If your goal is Switzerland, cut out Paris.


Yea, cutting out Paris looks is the most logical thing to do.



mrstas said:


> Listen to no one. Every person travels in their own way.
> 
> Some people prefer to see the one "most important" thing in each city, and then move on, having breathed the air and heard the sounds of a place. Others wish to explore each foreign land inch by inch, diving deeply into the history of each spot of dirt. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle between these two, some closer to one end, some to the other.
> 
> ...


Thank you, this is very valuable advice!!



dandanio said:


> Completely unrealistic itinerary. Try to read up on driving in Europe/Alps/Switzerland and adjust. Forget about trying Paris - you WOULD NOT see a thing there. It is not what travelling is about... To show you how unrealistic your plans are: Munich -> 'Ring is about 5 hours *ONE WAY*.


Yes, this is why I am asking for suggestions as I honestly have no clue about traveling through Europe.



skier said:


> You really have 4 driving days - 9/3 - 9/7, your plan covers way too much ground. I would fly back from Munich, and visit Berteschgaden, Salzburg, Vienna, and/or Prague.


So start at Munich drive down to Geneva and drive back up? Let's say you wanted to do a multiple city flight where would you depart from to NY?

Thanks everyone for the replies, please keep the suggestions coming!


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## kjboyd (Apr 13, 2006)

*Need help with first ED in 1 week*

I looked at this and am considering it. You can get from Munich to Lauterbrunnen (ive been twice and will go again) in about 5 hours. Nothing screams Switzerland more. Spend three nights there and then drive to Zurich. Spend day or so and fly out of Zurich.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

Lufthansa has a 650 am departure to Paris that arrives roughly at 8:30 am. There's a return at 9:30 pm. That gives you nearly 12 hours in Paris. A day trip can be done but the air fare will be high.


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

hatepotholez said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies, please keep the suggestions coming!


Day 1 (3 Sept) - Pick up BMW & drive Munich To Zurich/Bern/Geneva - wherever in Switzerland you choose (Munich/Zurich = 197 Mles)
Day 2 - @ Switzwerland or Drive to Geneva (Zurich/Geneva=173 Miles)
Day 3 - (5 Sep) @ Geneva & drive to Strassburg or Saarbrucken (or stay another day in Switerzerland and get up early on day 4 and drive ofr 7 hrs to arrive as per day 4) (Geneva/Strassburg= 242 miles)
Day 4 - (6 Sep) Drive to N'ring (Evening only17:15-1930) not open any other days you are in country (Strassburg/N'ring = 175 miles)
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angeb...-nordschleife/opening-times-nordschleife.html
Day 5 (7 Sept) - Drive from N'ring area to Munich & Drop car (N'ring/Munich = 342 miles)
Day 6 - Fly Home

All these days are easily doable in 6 hrs, goofing off and sight seeing. The drive back to Munchen is a push but by then you have 600 miles on the car and can open it up on the Autobahn, weather permitting.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

What a death march.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Some good advice.

For me an ED is an opportunity to DRIVE. So the objective isnt the STOPS, or DESGTINATIONS, but rather the spaces in between. I would skip 'days in big cities seeing crap in the city' unless you can do that from the drivers seat. Maybe a half a day here or there, but no more. My 2 cents.

enjoy


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

ard said:


> For me an ED is an opportunity to DRIVE. So the objective isnt the STOPS, or DESGTINATIONS, but rather the spaces in between. I would skip 'days in big cities seeing crap in the city' unless you can do that from the drivers seat. Maybe a half a day here or there, but no more. My 2 cents.


This was my ED philosophy. You can always go back and do the explore-the-city vacations, but ED is a very special trip which is all about driving.

Unfortunately, this requires buy in from the spouse/partner. I think it's a challenging conversation esp if it's a couple's first trip to Europe and you're obligated to try and cross something off the bucket list (or so it sounds like the OP's challenge).


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## openwheelracing (Aug 1, 2008)

*Re: Need help with first ED in 1 week*

How much driving is enough though? It is no fun for the passengers to just sit on the autobahn for hours. The best roads are the twistys in the country side, where it would be a shame to not sit down, relax and enjoy the local charm.

I did the quick trip before and I would never do that again. Slow down and soak it in.


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

Why not skip the 'ring and spend more time sightseeing & driving some of the mountain passes of Austria & Switzerland? You could drop off in Geneva (I believe that is still an option) and save the trip back to Munich.

I am planning on visiting Switzerland for several days on my next ED, so I am looking forward to your final itinerary and a trip report.

Best of luck.


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

One other thing, you mention getting multiple flights, I hope you don't mean multiple one-way tickets. You can easily book "open-jaw" tickets that don't cost much differently than a round trip ticket.


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## German Expat (Sep 29, 2006)

I would go Munich to Switzerland and then travel around in Switzerland. What does your wife like ? Cities ? Mountains ? Both ?
Buy an open jaw ticket to fly into Munich and out of Zurich.

I am currently on lake Zurich looking over the lake (unfortunately at a business meeting but in a nice hotel with a great view over the lake just looking out my window and reading emails).

Do keep in mind that Switzerland is the most expensive country surrounding Germany. Make sure you do your research and look at hotels. Driving distances are not bad. Also don't forget to buy the highway stickers (you need 2, 1 for passing Austria, its just a short corridor except if you go via Lake Konstanz and skip the short highway with the tunnel and 1 for Switzerland).

I think it can be a nice tour in 1 week and the drive from Munich to Switzerland is not that long. If your wife wants to see Switzerland by all means go there but invest a bit more time into planning.


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## Gluhwein (Aug 21, 2011)

skier said:


> you really have 4 driving days - 9/3 - 9/7, your plan covers way too much ground. I would fly back from munich, and visit berteschgaden, salzburg, vienna, and/or prague.


+++++1


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

kjboyd said:


> I looked at this and am considering it. You can get from Munich to Lauterbrunnen (ive been twice and will go again) in about 5 hours. Nothing screams Switzerland more. Spend three nights there and then drive to Zurich. Spend day or so and fly out of Zurich.
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


My wife is really focused on:
-Interlaken(about 10 miles from Lauterbrunnen)
-Jungfrau(quite expensive hotels)
-Lucerne
-Saanen
-Gstaad
-Bern(some shopping)

Also a big bummer is my flight is on a Sunday, which means the weekend I won't have my car  I emailed the Zurich drop off location to see if maybe they had a service for weekend drop offs. I might have to change my return flight from Zurich to Geneva and from Sunday to a Monday morning instead. This ED might only take place in Switzerland maybe I can squeeze in a Autobahn trip and 'Ring lol!



Dave 20T said:


> Lufthansa has a 650 am departure to Paris that arrives roughly at 8:30 am. There's a return at 9:30 pm. That gives you nearly 12 hours in Paris. A day trip can be done but the air fare will be high.


Hmmm very good idea, I will look into this.



HerrK said:


> Day 1 (3 Sept) - Pick up BMW & drive Munich To Zurich/Bern/Geneva - wherever in Switzerland you choose (Munich/Zurich = 197 Mles)
> Day 2 - @ Switzwerland or Drive to Geneva (Zurich/Geneva=173 Miles)
> Day 3 - (5 Sep) @ Geneva & drive to Strassburg or Saarbrucken (or stay another day in Switerzerland and get up early on day 4 and drive ofr 7 hrs to arrive as per day 4) (Geneva/Strassburg= 242 miles)
> Day 4 - (6 Sep) Drive to N'ring (Evening only17:15-1930) not open any other days you are in country (Strassburg/N'ring = 175 miles)
> ...


Would it be better to drive to the 'Ring the next morning. My flight arrives 940am, by the time I pick up the car and such it will probably be 12pm, and then to drive 5 hours to the 'Ring, which seems to be cutting it real close might not be possible.



ard said:


> Some good advice.
> 
> For me an ED is an opportunity to DRIVE. So the objective isnt the STOPS, or DESGTINATIONS, but rather the spaces in between. I would skip 'days in big cities seeing crap in the city' unless you can do that from the drivers seat. Maybe a half a day here or there, but no more. My 2 cents.
> 
> enjoy


I agree, we are not really interested in the cities but more into the mountains and "romantic views"



alee said:


> This was my ED philosophy. You can always go back and do the explore-the-city vacations, but ED is a very special trip which is all about driving.
> 
> Unfortunately, this requires buy in from the spouse/partner. I think it's a challenging conversation esp if it's a couple's first trip to Europe and you're obligated to try and cross something off the bucket list (or so it sounds like the OP's challenge).


It looks like it'll be a Switzerland focused ED, if I can somehow squeeze in a few laps on the 'Ring and somehow hit the Autobahn while going to Switzerland I will be content.



openwheelracing said:


> How much driving is enough though? It is no fun for the passengers to just sit on the autobahn for hours. The best roads are the twistys in the country side, where it would be a shame to not sit down, relax and enjoy the local charm.
> 
> I did the quick trip before and I would never do that again. Slow down and soak it in.


I agree, our first time doing and ED and Europe, I would like to take in the views, smell the fresh air and relax. Cities aren't the goals.



Face128i said:


> Why not skip the 'ring and spend more time sightseeing & driving some of the mountain passes of Austria & Switzerland? You could drop off in Geneva (I believe that is still an option) and save the trip back to Munich.
> 
> I am planning on visiting Switzerland for several days on my next ED, so I am looking forward to your final itinerary and a trip report.
> 
> Best of luck.





Face128i said:


> One other thing, you mention getting multiple flights, I hope you don't mean multiple one-way tickets. You can easily book "open-jaw" tickets that don't cost much differently than a round trip ticket.


lol I would be so pissed if I can't hit the 'Ring. I'll try my best to do it, if I can't hopefully there will be a next time! I will let you know about my final itinerary. I did book a open jaw or multi city flight, got a good deal too through Orbitz!



German Expat said:


> I would go Munich to Switzerland and then travel around in Switzerland. What does your wife like ? Cities ? Mountains ? Both ?
> Buy an open jaw ticket to fly into Munich and out of Zurich.
> 
> I am currently on lake Zurich looking over the lake (unfortunately at a business meeting but in a nice hotel with a great view over the lake just looking out my window and reading emails).
> ...


Glad you mentioned it, I did buy a open Jaw ticket. My flight leaves from NY to Munich and from Zurich to NY. My wife loves mountains, shes all about romantic views, adventurous activities and such. She only wants to go to the city to shop.

lol trying to plan my best but everything keeps changing.


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## dandanio (Jun 20, 2008)

hatepotholez said:


> She only wants to go to the city to shop.


I am pretty sure she would be very happy if you took her to FoxTown Mendrisio. I know mine was!


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

hatepotholez said:


> Would it be better to drive to the 'Ring the next morning. My flight arrives 940am, by the time I pick up the car and such it will probably be 12pm, and then to drive 5 hours to the 'Ring, which seems to be cutting it real close might not be possible.
> lol I would be so pissed if I can't hit the 'Ring. I'll try my best to do it, if I can't hopefully there will be a next time! lol trying to plan my best but everything keeps changing.


This may be hard to digest but the Nordschleife @ Nurburgring is not open every day, all day, for "tourist traffic" - that is you. It is only open on 6 Sept (when you are in country) and the hours on that day are 17:15 to 19:30.

Capiche?


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

dandanio said:


> I am pretty sure she would be very happy if you took her to FoxTown Mendrisio. I know mine was!


lol have to hide this from her!



HerrK said:


> This may be hard to digest but the Nordschleife @ Nurburgring is not open every day, all day, for "tourist traffic" - that is you. It is only open on 6 Sept (when you are in country) and the hours on that day are 17:15 to 19:30.
> 
> Capiche?


Capiche. Theres an issue with the 6th, the only way I can drive on the 'Ring is if I extend my flight to Monday the 9th from Zurich. There are no weekend drop offs in Germany or Switzerland.

wow i'm really screwed...


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

What I should have done was book a flight out of Geneva on the 10th instead of Zurich on the 8th. Also Sept 9th(mon) is a Holiday in Switzerland so the real drop off is Tuesday the 10th. Seems I was too focused on US dates and holidays and not the countries i'm visiting. Now Orbitz wants $300+ to change the tickets!!


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## dandanio (Jun 20, 2008)

hatepotholez said:


> There are no weekend drop offs in Germany or Switzerland.


Actually, search the forum for Sat/Sun drop-off. It is about 200E unofficially, but it can be arranged (in Munich at least).


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

dandanio said:


> Actually, search the forum for Sat/Sun drop-off. It is about 200E unofficially, but it can be arranged (in Munich at least).


Thanks, I couldn't find anything specific before but i'll check again.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

Munich has sat drop off until 2pm. I can hit the ring Fri the 5th, drop off the car Sat the 6th at Munich before 2pm. Book a 1 way rental car from Munich to Zurich, this option is not cost effective though, its atleast $400 through Avis.


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## Ryanoceros (Nov 30, 2012)

Warning: Opinons ahead.
When we planned our ED trip, our mentality was to try to do activities where the car actively improved the experience. Activities that the car does not improve are better left to another European vacation. My advice is given with that in mind. 

Given your limited timeframe and need to stay in Switzerland for most of this, you should probably scratch the Nurburgring from your plans. We drove from Lauterbrunnen to Rothenburg ob der Tauber in one day and that was a long drive. The Ring is another few hours on top of that. Also, I wouldn't drive the Ring until you are past the break-in period for your car, which they will recommend as 2.000km (1,200mi) at the Welt. I'm not sure your itinerary will give you enough miles to reach break-in.

Also, in my opinion, Switzerland is not the best use of your ED days. With the exception of the alpine passes if you want to drive a few of them, anything you want to see or do in Switzerland will be easier to do using their fantastic rail and public transit network. If its even remotely possible, I would try to promise Switzerland on another trip where you won't have a car, and focus on Bavaria, which is also awesome and is much more suited to driving between destinations. Bavaria is so frequently recommended here because you really need the car to get the best out of your experience there, while many other places can be done just as easily via public transit. That said, we went to the Berner Oberland on my ED trip last month and loved it. My point is that the car did not enhance that experience, because it was parked in the Lauterbrunnen train station for 2 days while we were in the valley.

Now that I've satisfied the Bimmerfest formalities of throwing away your itinerary to make one I'd rather do, here is my recommendation based on needing to see Switzerland:

09/02 - Land in Munich at 9am. Tour Munich, consider factory tour or visit to Welt and BMW Museum. Biergarten.
09/03 - Pick up car, drive to Fussen, consider reserving castle tour tickets for late this afternoon. Visit castle photo spot.
09/04 - Drive to Lucerne, see the town (Or you could scratch Lucerne in favor of a day driving alpine passes. Look into Grimsel, Furka, San Bernardino, and Susten Passes. Stelvio is doable, but would be a long trip)
09/05 - Finish Lucerne, drive to Berner Oberland.
09/06 - Jungfraujoch and Berner Oberland
09/07 - Breakfast on Schilthorn, drive to departure city, drop off car
09/08 - Fly out to NY

That was way longer than I meant it to be. Hope that helps though.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

hatepotholez said:


> Munich has sat drop off until 2pm. I can hit the ring Fri the 5th, drop off the car Sat the 6th at Munich before 2pm. Book a 1 way rental car from Munich to Zurich, this option is not cost effective though, its atleast $400 through Avis.


You should be able to do a Weekend drop off at Zurich for an additional fee. Just email them and ask. Another option is to take the train, which is going to be much more cost effective than a one-way rental.

To me it does not make much sense driving all the way to the ring, doing a lap or two and then driving back to Zurich/Munich. It seems like you just want to tick a box. If you want to have driving fun, I think that you will be much better off hitting the spectacular mountain passes in Switzerland and Italy.

Is your pickup confirmed on the 2nd or 3rd ? Let lag shouldn't be that bad, I would just pickup on day 1 if possible, leave the car parking at the garage at the welt and tour the city.

Also, I haven't been to Geneva or Zurich, but from what I hear, they are business hubs and not very touristy. Also they are not the in mountainous Switzerland that your wife probably imagines. If you want to be in the mountains and see Switzerland in all its glory you should go to the bernese oberland and Lucerne.

Also there is not much at Interlaken, it is popular because it is car accessible and has rail access to the higher elevations in the bernese oberland. The towns at these higher elevations are not accessible by car.

Another thing I wanted to mention. Jungrau is a entire days trip from Interlaken. It is quite possible that the weather at Jungrau is bad on the day you want to go up, so it is a good idea to have a couple of days in the area to increase the changes of getting good weather. It is a total waste of 150 Euros / person (talking from personal experience) if you go up when the weather is bad.

According to me you should do something like this.

09/02 - Arrive at 9AM, take delivery, leave car at welt garage, buy a rail pass, tour city, night at Munich.

09/03 - Drive to Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen stay overnight.

09/04 - At Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen, if weather is good do a day trip Jungrau, if not visit the other towns/villages in the area.

09/05 - At Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen, if weather is good do a day trip Jungrau, if not visit the other towns/villages in the area.

09/6 - Leave Interlaken, goto Lucerne, overnight at Lucerne.

09/05 - Leave Lucerne, drive down to Como,Italy, via the the Grimsel and Fukra Pass and then drive on to Bellagio, Italy.

09/06 - Take ferry (with car) to vareena, drive down the stelvio pass. Then to Davos, Switzerland (stay or drive to Zurich).

09/07 - Drive to Zurich from Davos or entire day in Zurich.

09/08 - Extra fee weekend dropoff at Zurich and fly out.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

Ryanoceros said:


> Warning: Opinons ahead.
> When we planned our ED trip, our mentality was to try to do activities where the car actively improved the experience. Activities that the car does not improve are better left to another European vacation. My advice is given with that in mind.
> 
> Given your limited timeframe and need to stay in Switzerland for most of this, you should probably scratch the Nurburgring from your plans. We drove from Lauterbrunnen to Rothenburg ob der Tauber in one day and that was a long drive. The Ring is another few hours on top of that. Also, I wouldn't drive the Ring until you are past the break-in period for your car, which they will recommend as 2.000km (1,200mi) at the Welt. I'm not sure your itinerary will give you enough miles to reach break-in.
> ...


The highlight of the trip is Switzerland, while I agree there are many many more things to see in Europe, it's the wife's dream and she deserves it.

I am already contemplating a second ED trip but to bring my auto enthusiast friends for the next go around. As much as I would love to drive wherever I can, catching the sites on my wife's list are more important.

Unfortunately I cannot drop off the car on the 7th as they are closed. So 6th-8th my stay will be in Zurich or I can get a rental car and travel more.



achopra said:


> You should be able to do a Weekend drop off at Zurich for an additional fee. Just email them and ask. Another option is to take the train, which is going to be much more cost effective than a one-way rental.
> 
> To me it does not make much sense driving all the way to the ring, doing a lap or two and then driving back to Zurich/Munich. It seems like you just want to tick a box. If you want to have driving fun, I think that you will be much better off hitting the spectacular mountain passes in Switzerland and Italy.
> 
> ...


My trip is confirmed to land on Sep 2nd 10am, also my pickup is scheduled Sept 2nd. I like your Itinerary quite a bit as our trip is focused on the following:

-Interlaken(about 10 miles from Lauterbrunnen)
-Jungfrau(quite expensive hotels)
-Lucerne
-Saanen
-Gstaad
-Bern(some shopping)

The wife will sit down and confirm everything soon, but those sites are a must.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

hatepotholez said:


> The highlight of the trip is Switzerland, while I agree there are many many more things to see in Europe, it's the wife's dream and she deserves it.
> 
> I am already contemplating a second ED trip but to bring my auto enthusiast friends for the next go around. As much as I would love to drive wherever I can, catching the sites on my wife's list are more important.
> 
> ...


I noticed that I added a couple of days to the itinerary ... apparently I cant count .. anyways I edited the itinerary below

09/02 - Arrive at 9AM, take delivery, leave car at welt garage, buy a rail pass, tour city, night at Munich.

09/03 - Drive early in the morning to Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen stay overnight. If weather is good do a day trip Jungfrau, if not visit the other towns/villages in the area.

09/04 - At Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen, if weather is good do a day trip Jungfrau, if not visit the other towns/villages in the area (Bern, Saanen, Gstaag, all possible).

09/05 - Leave Interlaken, goto Lucerne, overnight at Lucerne.

09/06 - Driving Day 1: Leave Lucerne, drive down to Como,Italy, via the the Grimsel and Fukra Pass and then drive on to Bellagio, Italy.

09/07 - Driving Day 2: Take ferry (with car) to vareena, *drive down the stelvio pass. Then to Zurich via Davos*. <-- in bold is Top Gear UK's best driving road in western Europe
09/08 - Extra fee weekend dropoff at Zurich and fly out.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

achopra said:


> I noticed that I added a couple of days to the itinerary ... apparently I cant count .. anyways I edited the itinerary below
> 
> 09/02 - Arrive at 9AM, take delivery, leave car at welt garage, buy a rail pass, tour city, night at Munich.
> 
> ...


Hopefully they can do the weekend delivery.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

achopra said:


> I noticed that I added a couple of days to the itinerary ... apparently I cant count .. anyways I edited the itinerary below
> 
> 09/02 - Arrive at 9AM, take delivery, leave car at welt garage, buy a rail pass, tour city, night at Munich.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen and Jungfrau is a mandatory 3 day visit?


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

hatepotholez said:


> I'm assuming Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen and Jungfrau is a mandatory 3 day visit?


Switzerland is quite small, you can use Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen as your base and vist pretty much any corner in Switzerland in 2-3 hours. Lucerne is just an hour away, Saanen & Gstaad about the same, Bern about 45 minutes....etc

Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen is where you will get the train to Jungfrau. Staying in the area allows you to go up to Jungfrau on one of the days when the weather is good and on the other days you can go pretty much go anywhere in Switzerland for day trips.

Lucerne is a very nice charming town in the mountains with great scenery. It is my destination of choice in Switzerland. Well worth a night or two IMO.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

achopra said:


> Switzerland is quite small, you can use Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen as your base and vist pretty much any corner in Switzerland in 2-3 hours. Lucerne is just an hour away, Saanen & Gstaad about the same, Bern about 45 minutes....etc
> 
> Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen is where you will get the train to Jungfrau. Staying in the area allows you to go up to Jungfrau on one of the days when the weather is good and on the other days you can go pretty much go anywhere in Switzerland for day trips.
> 
> Lucerne is a very nice charming town in the mountains with great scenery. It is my destination of choice in Switzerland. Well worth a night or two IMO.


Ok thats great. Would you say $250-$300 spending a day is more than enough including all expenses?


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

Depends on the quality of Hotels you want to stay at. Last year I stayed a night at the Metropole Swiss Q Hotel, which is a 4 star hotel, and spent $218/night + extra for parking.

Food (without alcohol) should be around $25-35/person/day. Add in gas, CHF 40 vingette (toll sticker), parking charges, Rail charges (CHF 197.60 /person for a return ticket to Jungfrau and back), incidentals etc ... I think you will spend a bit *more* than $300 / day


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## Ryanoceros (Nov 30, 2012)

achopra said:


> Depends on the quality of Hotels you want to stay at. Last year I stayed a night at the Metropole Swiss Q Hotel, which is a 4 star hotel, and spent $218/night + extra for parking.
> 
> Food (without alcohol) should be around $25-35/person/day. Add in gas, CHF 40 vingette (toll sticker), parking charges, Rail charges (CHF 197.60 /person for a return ticket to Jungfrau and back), incidentals etc ... I think you will spend a bit *more* than $300 / day


I agree. You probably could get by under $300, but it would be very tough. What does your wife want to do in Interlaken? If you are planning to spend substantial time in the Lauterbrunnen Valley, what you save in hotels to stay in Interlaken may be consumed getting yourself back and forth into the Valley every day. If you are going to be using public transit extensively, you should look into a Swiss Rail Pass or a Half Price Pass to see if you can save some by doing that.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

*Need help with first ED in 1 week*

So the good news, I can drop off the car on the weekend in Munich for a fee,
"We provide off hour drop off as well.
From 16:30h till 19:00h and 7:00h till 8:30h ***8211; 50***8364;
and 19:00h till 7:00h ***8211;200***8364;
Saturday from 14:00h till Monday 7:00h ***8211; 200***8364;"

Bad news,

Unfortunately there are no weekend drop offs in Zurich at all I asked twice and it's a long holiday. Only chances are if I want to stick with my original flight is drop it off at fri evening.

If I take care of Switzerland by the 5th at night, I can probably take the trip to nurburgring on the morning of the 6th, drop off the car sat morning or evening for a $75 fee and either jump on a train or a one way rental back to Zurich.

Also the Stelvio pass is out, wife is scared of that road due to her reading about it being one of the deadliest roads in the world.

Wife is already pissed that its basically only a 5 day vacation, so ill try and get a change in tickets for a modest fee if its possible or just cancel and cough up the difference which can be as high as $800. Which btw I do not want to pay.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

hatepotholez said:


> So the good news, I can drop off the car on the weekend in Munich for a fee,
> "We provide off hour drop off as well.
> From 16:30h till 19:00h and 7:00h till 8:30h - 50€
> and 19:00h till 7:00h -200€
> ...


Sucks that you cant do a weekend dropoff at Zurich. Munich dropoff is an option. Also, 
The Frankfurt location does weekend dropoffs for a Euro 100 fee.

Yes, Stelvio pass is one of the deadliest roads in the world, but so is the nurburgring. Only consolation probably is that they have emergency crews available. But if you hit a wall at 60+ mph, I am not sure how much help they are going to be.

Be prepared! Many of the alpine routes are quite dangerous, with narrow roads (1.5 car width) and blind curves and you need to be a good & brave driver to be able to tackle them. Eg, the road from Como to Bellagio that I mentioned is exactly like that, scary but excellent fun with great scenery.

Take the DbBahn train back to Zurich, they are fantastic. If you take a city night line, you can get a cabin with beds, which means you will save a day in a hotel.


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

If the fees are too high, consider returning the car during the weekday and plan your trip so that you will be in a city during the weekend or rent a car.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

achopra said:


> Sucks that you cant do a weekend dropoff at Zurich. Munich dropoff is an option. Also,
> The Frankfurt location does weekend dropoffs for a Euro 100 fee.
> 
> Yes, Stelvio pass is one of the deadliest roads in the world, but so is the nurburgring. Only consolation probably is that they have emergency crews available. But if you hit a wall at 60+ mph, I am not sure how much help they are going to be.
> ...


I can definitely pass this idea to the wife about the cabin in the train!



Dave 20T said:


> If the fees are too high, consider returning the car during the weekday and plan your trip so that you will be in a city during the weekend or rent a car.


I agree, this is also what I was considering.


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## emdreiSMG (Dec 10, 2003)

*Need help with first ED in 1 week*

+1 on Dadanios rec of FoxTownMendrisio.. You will save loads of $$ if you take her there to shop & its worthwhile for you to clothes shop there too. Also, nearby Lugano is awesome and user-friendly. It's not exactly Lake Como, but similar & very enjoyable for a nt or 2.
Lucerne is awesome. Zurich is nice, but not worth the $$$ for hotel room. 
I would go MUC-->Lugano-->Lucerne and then take your choice of day trips

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## Diesel Power (Oct 2, 2010)

Anybody ever traveled the "Romantic Road" in Germany? http://www.thereareplaces.com/newguidebook/pdest/germany/romanticroad/romanticroad.htm
Thoughts and feedback are appreciated.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

emdreiSMG said:


> +1 on Dadanios rec of FoxTownMendrisio.. You will save loads of $$ if you take her there to shop & its worthwhile for you to clothes shop there too. Also, nearby Lugano is awesome and user-friendly. It's not exactly Lake Como, but similar & very enjoyable for a nt or 2.
> Lucerne is awesome. Zurich is nice, but not worth the $$$ for hotel room.
> I would go MUC-->Lugano-->Lucerne and then take your choice of day trips
> 
> Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


I also read that about Zurich, not much to see but expensive hotels. Unfortunately my flight leaves from there.

To change to Munich instead of Zurich and on a Monday is $1000.

To change from Sun to Tues is $500 but leaving Zurich. I am still considering this option with the wife.

Airlines are ripping me off!!


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

hatepotholez said:


> I also read that about Zurich, not much to see but expensive hotels. Unfortunately my flight leaves from there.
> 
> To change to Munich instead of Zurich and on a Monday is $1000.
> 
> To change from Sun to Tues is $500 but leaving Zurich. I am still considering this option with the wife.


*Sun to Tues * is probably a good idea, it will give you more time.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

*partially modyfing achopra itinerary*

09/02 - Arrive at 9AM, take delivery, leave car at welt garage, buy a rail pass, tour city, night at Munich. OR drive to the 'Ring which my wife insists, I doubt I can do it.

09/03 - Drive early in the morning to Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen stay overnight. If weather is good do a day trip Jungfrau, if not visit the other towns/villages in the area.

09/04 - At Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen, if weather is good do a day trip Jungfrau, if not visit the other towns/villages in the area (Bern, Saanen, Gstaag, all possible).

09/05 - Leave Interlaken, goto Lucerne, overnight at Lucerne.

09/06 - Leave Lucerne, go to Zurich drop off car get rental see where in Switzerland I can go.

09/07 - Stay in Zurich

09/08 - Fly out of Zurich.

or

*modifying what HerrK suggested:*

Day 1 (2 Sept) - Pick up BMW & drive Munich To Zurich/Bern/Geneva - wherever in Switzerland you choose (Munich/Zurich = 197 Mles)
Day 2 - @ Switzwerland or Drive to Geneva (Zurich/Geneva=173 Miles)
Day 3 - (4 Sep) @ Geneva & drive to Strassburg or Saarbrucken (or stay another day in Switerzerland and get up early on day 4 and drive ofr 7 hrs to arrive as per day 4) (Geneva/Strassburg= 242 miles)
Day 4 - More Switzerland
Day 5 - (6 Sep) Drive to N'ring (Evening only17:15-1930) not open any other days you are in country.
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angebo...dschleife.html
Day 5 (7 Sept) - Drive from N'ring area to Munich & Drop car (N'ring/Munich = 342 miles) and then to Zurich. Longest driving day.
Day 6 - Fly Home

*Combining achopra and HerrK and extend till Tues*

Day 1 (2 Sept) (Partial Switzerland) - Pick up BMW & drive Munich To Zurich/Bern/Geneva - wherever in Switzerland you choose (Munich/Zurich = 197 Mles)

Day 2 -(3 Sept) (Switzerland) @ Switzwerland or Drive to Geneva (Zurich/Geneva=173 Miles)

Day 3 - (4 Sep) (Switzerland) @ Geneva & drive to Strassburg or Saarbrucken (or stay another day in Switerzerland and get up early on day 4 and drive for 7 hrs to arrive as per day 4) (Geneva/Strassburg= 242 miles)

Day 4 (5 Sept) (Switzerland)

Day 5 - (6 Sep) Drive to N'ring (Evening only17:15-1930) not open any other days you are in country
http://www.nuerburgring.de/en/angebo...dschleife.html

Day 6 - (7 Sept)Sat, try another city.

Day 7 -(8 Sept)Sun, try another city.

Day 8 -(9 Sept)Mon,- possibly Stelvio pass.

Day 9 -(10 Sept)Tues- Drop off car, Fly Home.

I know it's vague but trying to just get an idea of how this works.

BTW Sindelfingen has a drop off fee of 65***8364; and they can meet sat/sun at certain times


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

Whatcha guys think?


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

I think eliminating the recovery day to shake off the jet lag is a bad idea. And if anything happens to delay your flight the margin for error is very slim which will cause you a lot of undue anxiety.

Rolling off an 8 hour overnight flight, into a taxi and into the Welt, to pick up a new car and then drive a couple hundred miles? Sounds horrible to me.

Your first 3 days should be...

9/1: Fly out of New York
9/2: Arrive. Walk around, try to stay awake, end up crashing in bed by 8pm because you're wiped out.
9/3: Take delivery.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

alee said:


> I think eliminating the recovery day to shake off the jet lag is a bad idea. And if anything happens to delay your flight the margin for error is very slim which will cause you a lot of undue anxiety.
> 
> Rolling off an 8 hour overnight flight, into a taxi and into the Welt, to pick up a new car and then drive a couple hundred miles? Sounds horrible to me.
> 
> ...


I wish my flight is 8 hours, more like 14 hours with a 3 hour layover in Istanbul, Turkey.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

hatepotholez said:


> I wish my flight is 8 hours, more like 14 hours with a 3 hour layover in Istanbul, Turkey.


Even more reason... you'll need the recovery day or you're going to be really messed up on delivery day.


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## HerrK (Jan 9, 2010)

FYI -now that you've extended a couple of days the N'ring is open in the evenings on 8 & 9 Sept (Sun & Mon). Previously you were flying out on the 8th so this was not an option.

Is your delivery date on the 2nd or 3rd of Sept. It should be firm by now unless you are requesting a change.

Either way if I was your travel agent knowing what you/wife would like to do. My recommendations.

1 Sept - Leave NY
2 Sept - Arrive Munich
3 Sept - Pick up car and drive to Zurich CH or somewher else close in CH
4-6 Sept - Explore CH - Shop, visit Mtns, Interlaken, bag some passes.
7 Sept - From CH Drive to Baden-Baden, DE visit the Friedrichsbad Spa (Nude) or Caracalla Therme (Spa - not Nude). There is a casino in town as well. If any of these options appela to you.
8 Sept - Drive to N'ring and enjoy (Overnight in Area)
9 Sept - N'ring Area to Strasbourg FR
10 Sept - Strasbourg FR to Zurich CH drop car & Fly Home.

Stelvio is fun on a motorcycle - not so much for a car - IMO. Been there on a MC. Passing opportunities with a MC are signifigantly greater. Otherwise you are likely to be stuck in car traffic - not fun.

There are some nice passes to bag outside of Interlaken. Namely a nice loop can be made of Grimsellpass, Furkapass, Sustenpass and the town of Andermatt is a nice place to spend a few hours.

Open up on line ViaMichelin Map and start planning. Have fun!


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

alee said:


> Even more reason... you'll need the recovery day or you're going to be really messed up on delivery day.


There goes a day without my bimmer 



HerrK said:


> FYI -now that you've extended a couple of days the N'ring is open in the evenings on 8 & 9 Sept (Sun & Mon). Previously you were flying out on the 8th so this was not an option.
> 
> Is your delivery date on the 2nd or 3rd of Sept.  It should be firm by now unless you are requesting a change.
> 
> ...


Thanks, its a confirmed Sept 2nd pick up around noon. I'll check out that Michelin Map also.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread and the forum for all their help, recommendations and write ups.

I honestly have not experienced a forum that is so helpful like this one. 

By this weekend I will have calculated the extra costs to add 2 more days and make a final itinterary!

Thanks to all!


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## niddin (Nov 1, 2012)

Just to throw another wrench, as much as I loved the ring, I might have skipped it with your itinerary. It is just really out if the way if you aren't spending time in Germany. Instead, you should add Lake Como, Italy. You can then make a loop to go Munich, Lake Como, Interlaken, Zurich. You will have plenty of awesome roads to drive, and plenty of time to enjoy the outdoors and soak in the surroundings. I didn't see Italy at all on the lists but something to think about, because no woman on the planet dislikes Lake Como. 

If you do decide the ring, I'd drop the car at Frankfurt and then take the train to Zurich for the flight out. Hopefully the track times permit you some flexibility but it sounds like they might not. 

I finished my ED two weeks ago and reading your posts is already making me jealous! No matter what you decide if you follow even 1/3 of the advice people give you you are going to have an unbelievable time. We didn't have Switzerland on our list but driving through it and San Bernardino pass was a great day.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

hatepotholez said:


> I wish my flight is 8 hours, more like 14 hours with a 3 hour layover in Istanbul, Turkey.


In that case I also totally agree with alee.


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## niddin (Nov 1, 2012)

Now that ive reread the thread. Here is what id do based on the timeline HerrK had. Don't underestimate how your flight times can ruin drop off, and how long it can take to drop off especially if you decide to wash the car. I dont think you could get the ring in on the 9th unless you had a really late flight on the 10th. I added car free days, which I mean to be days where your focus is the more the enjoying the destination and not the journey. 

1 Sept - Leave NY

2 Sept - Arrive Munich, enjoy welt, recover. See factory and museum early. 

3 Sept - Pick up car and drive to Fussen, see a castle. 

4 sept - drive passes on way to lake Como

5 Sept - Lake Como (car free day)

6 Sept - Lake Como to Interlaken, more passes 

7 Sept - Interlaken (car free day)

8 Sept - Interlaken to ring, no funny business, it's a Sunday and it'll be busy but the ring should slow down as the day ends. Lonnnng drive, but doable if you have the tolls already and get up on time. 

9 sept - drop car off at Frankfurt, joke you wish you could put car on plane and wife on boat, get evil glares when they realize you are only 1/2 joking. Take train to Zurich 

10 sept - fly home.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Really liking the additions of car free days. :thumbup:


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

mrstas said:


> Listen to no one. .......


Then he or she should not post a question here.

The proposed itinerary is the most impossible I itinerary that I have ever seen here and there have been some silly ones.


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## DslDwg (Apr 29, 2012)

Lots to read through here - don't know what you've ended up on your itinerary. 

I will weigh in on Zurich though. 

I ended up finding hotels at a decent price although food and souvenirs and incidentals were expensive. Frankly during our ED I couldn't find a decent hotel in Munich for under $250 so we ended up staying in Augsburg and taking the train into Munich for two days and still saved money. 

Another thing I noticed going from Switzerland to other EU countries. The Swiss franc is close to par with the dollar where the Euro has a fairly large differential so although the numbers are smaller you're actually paying more for things than you do in Switzerland. 

Most on this website would say skip Zurich, my wife and I found plenty to do in and around Zurich and found the Swiss friendly and ultimately had a really nice time. 

For ED no.2 I will definitely consider more time in Switzerland and "0" time driving in Italy.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

niddin said:


> Just to throw another wrench, as much as I loved the ring, I might have skipped it with your itinerary. It is just really out if the way if you aren't spending time in Germany. Instead, you should add Lake Como, Italy. You can then make a loop to go Munich, Lake Como, Interlaken, Zurich. You will have plenty of awesome roads to drive, and plenty of time to enjoy the outdoors and soak in the surroundings. I didn't see Italy at all on the lists but something to think about, because no woman on the planet dislikes Lake Como.
> 
> If you do decide the ring, I'd drop the car at Frankfurt and then take the train to Zurich for the flight out. Hopefully the track times permit you some flexibility but it sounds like they might not.
> 
> I finished my ED two weeks ago and reading your posts is already making me jealous! No matter what you decide if you follow even 1/3 of the advice people give you you are going to have an unbelievable time. We didn't have Switzerland on our list but driving through it and San Bernardino pass was a great day.


I was speaking to the wife and she wants to go to the Swiss national park, if I read the maps correctly Stelvio pass takes us from Zurich to the Swiss national park. Additionally HerrK, tip is also worrisome for me, I really do not want to be stuck behind someone for the whole ride I would be very frustrated.



achopra said:


> In that case I also totally agree with alee.


I might have to shoot from the hip on this day. If either my wife are I are tremendously jet lagged we'll get a hotel room near the Welt. If we aren't we will lounge around in the Welt relax a little and head off to Zurich.



niddin said:


> Now that ive reread the thread. Here is what id do based on the timeline HerrK had. Don't underestimate how your flight times can ruin drop off, and how long it can take to drop off especially if you decide to wash the car. I dont think you could get the ring in on the 9th unless you had a really late flight on the 10th. I added car free days, which I mean to be days where your focus is the more the enjoying the destination and not the journey.
> 
> 1 Sept - Leave NY
> 
> ...


Adding 2 more days is out, not in the budget unfortunately.



alee said:


> Really liking the additions of car free days. :thumbup:


I like the idea of no train for a few days, will save me a boatload of cash on gas.



pharding said:


> Then he or she should not post a question here.
> 
> The proposed itinerary is the most impossible I itinerary that I have ever seen here and there have been some silly ones.


The only intensive driving day I see is on the 09/07 when I have to drive to Munich, drop off the car, get a rental and drive to Zurich.



DslDwg said:


> Lots to read through here - don't know what you've ended up on your itinerary.
> 
> I will weigh in on Zurich though.
> 
> ...


For this ED it will be focused on Switzerland only, the next ED who knows


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## JustinTJ (Jun 1, 2011)

This one was mine last year. 17 days, 14 with my car, two with rental, one with an airport ride in a cab.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=623450


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

HerrK said:


> FYI -now that you've extended a couple of days the N'ring is open in the evenings on 8 & 9 Sept (Sun & Mon). Previously you were flying out on the 8th so this was not an option.
> 
> Is your delivery date on the 2nd or 3rd of Sept. It should be firm by now unless you are requesting a change.
> 
> ...


+1 This is a great itinerary.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

hatepotholez said:


> .....
> I might have to shoot from the hip on this day. If either my wife are I are tremendously jet lagged we'll get a hotel room near the Welt. If we aren't we will lounge around in the Welt relax a little and head off to Zurich....


The whole idea that you might not be severely jet lagged is absurd. You will be severely jet lagged. Why start out a great vacation being exhausted or having the itinerary and your plans blown from the beginning?


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

pharding said:


> The whole idea that you might not be severely jet lagged is absurd. You will be severely jet lagged. Why start out a great vacation being exhausted or having the itinerary and your plans blown from the beginning?


I have to agree with you, do not eliminate the jet-lag day. For one, no matter the amount of coffee or Red Bull, you'll still be in a "fog", and you'll find it hard to remember & enjoy the delivery experience. However, the greater concern is in regards to the *safety of you and your wife and all the other drivers you will be endangering *if you plan a long drive the same day of arriving. Even if you plan to take delivery the day of arrival, at least plan on spending the night. You'll wake up refreshed the following morning and ready to start your vacation.

You can avoid jet-lag somewhat, I've been successful using the following techniques:
- The week prior to your trip begin getting up and going to bed earlier. It makes it easier to sleep on the plane and gets you accustomed to the time difference
- Drink plenty of water prior to getting on the plane, during the flight, and the first day afterwards. * Stay hydrated!*
- Get on the local eating & sleeping schedule as soon as possible. Don't take a nap when you first arrive or go to bed really early as you'll prolong the time needed to adjust.

I'm glad to see you are scaling back your plans somewhat. You will enjoy it more if you slow down and give yourself time to absorb the culture & beauty of the area.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

pharding said:


> The whole idea that you might not be severely jet lagged is absurd. You will be severely jet lagged. Why start out a great vacation being exhausted or having the itinerary and your plans blown from the beginning?


I agree, the problem is some of my friends stated jet lagg shouldnt be an issue, other say it will be an issue.

I will make a list of hotels near the Welt to stay if I even have the slightest amount of Jet lag.



Face128i said:


> I have to agree with you, do not eliminate the jet-lag day. For one, no matter the amount of coffee or Red Bull, you'll still be in a "fog", and you'll find it hard to remember & enjoy the delivery experience. However, the greater concern is in regards to the *safety of you and your wife and all the other drivers you will be endangering *if you plan a long drive the same day of arriving. Even if you plan to take delivery the day of arrival, at least plan on spending the night. You'll wake up refreshed the following morning and ready to start your vacation.
> 
> You can avoid jet-lag somewhat, I've been successful using the following techniques:
> - The week prior to your trip begin getting up and going to bed earlier. It makes it easier to sleep on the plane and gets you accustomed to the time difference
> ...


Thank you for the tips, I will try it out. The longest driving day if I do the 'Ring will be Saturday. I will have to drive from the 'Ring to Munich get the rental and to Zurich.


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

hatepotholez said:


> I agree, the problem is some of my friends stated jet lagg shouldnt be an issue, other say it will be an issue.


Jet lag will be an issue. I would say it wouldn't be as bad if you were flying straight from NYC to Munich, but with the stopover in Turkey - that will be a lot of flying time. You'll be exhausted from that even not accounting for the time change. Why not fly direct from NYC, surely there are better options that get you there more directly? :dunno:

My first trip to Europe I was wasted my first day due to jet lag. Over time I've got more accustomed to traveling and it hasn't been as severe. If this is your first long plane ride (it sounds like it is?), I can only say do the right thing for you and others safety and spend the first night in Munich. You likely won't sleep as much on the plane as you expect and you will be very tired.

Driving an unfamiliar car on unfamiliar roads on limited sleep is a recipe for disaster. *Driving tired is just as bad as driving drunk*.

US News Article: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...s/101109-Driving-Tired-is-Like-Driving-Drunk/


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

Face128i said:


> Jet lag will be an issue. I would say it wouldn't be as bad if you were flying straight from NYC to Munich, but with the stopover in Turkey - that will be a lot of flying time. You'll be exhausted from that even not accounting for the time change. Why not fly direct from NYC, surely there are better options that get you there more directly? :dunno:
> 
> My first trip to Europe I was wasted my first day due to jet lag. Over time I've got more accustomed to traveling and it hasn't been as severe. If this is your first long plane ride (it sounds like it is?), I can only say do the right thing for you and others safety and spend the first night in Munich. You likely won't sleep as much on the plane as you expect and you will be very tired.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I cannot change my flight.

It was a while since I was on a international flight. Last international flight was over 15 hours.

I don't disagree with you about the jet lagg.


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## achopra (Jun 27, 2012)

Personally, JetLag doesnt bother me that much. This is even when I fly to India (20+ hour flight to other side of the world) let alone flying to Europe. My way of getting in tune with the local time is to go about my day as normal. Yes, you will get tired on day 1, but if you go about your day as normal, eat and sleep as normal on Day 1. Starting Day 2 you will have adjusted. Otherwise you will be miserable for a few days and your sleep cycle will be a lot more messed up.

Now, I am also used to doing very long and extremely tiring (10-12 hr a day) drives powered by Red Bull. But I can see how driving a lot on day 1 might be an issue for some, especially if you have never driven on the unrestricted autobahn or the mountains.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

achopra said:


> Personally, JetLag doesnt bother me that much. This is even when I fly to India (20+ hour flight to other side of the world) let alone flying to Europe. My way of getting in tune with the local time is to go about my day as I normal would back home. Yes, you will get tired on day 1, but if you go about your day as normal, eat and sleep as normal on Day 1. Starting Day 2 you will have adjusted. Otherwise you will be miserable for a few days and your sleep cycle will be a lot more messed up.


Jet lagg didn't really bother me that much when I flew on a international flight a few years back. Everyone's body handles jet lagg differently.


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## Face128i (Nov 19, 2008)

hatepotholez said:


> Jet lagg didn't really bother me that much when I flew on a international flight a few years back. Everyone's body handles jet lagg differently.


I have no problem going west, but going east generally wears me out as I don't sleep very well on the plane. I can muddle through a day with copious amounts of coffee and red bull but I know my limits.

Convince your wife to stay in Munich for the day. Consider this itinerary:

9 am: Land
10am: Pick up car at BMW Welt - Store in the parking garage
12pm: Lunch at International Cafe or the ED Lounge
2pm: Hang out at Marienplatz - shopping, sightseeing (Get a hotel in this area
6pm: Dinner at Hofbruhaus or similar beer hall or beer garden
8pm: Early night to bed

Next morning get up really early (5am?) and head to Switzerland.

You didn't extend your vacation by two days right? What are you doing now? :dunno:


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

Face128i said:


> I have no problem going west, but going east generally wears me out as I don't sleep very well on the plane. I can muddle through a day with copious amounts of coffee and red bull but I know my limits.
> 
> Convince your wife to stay in Munich for the day. Consider this itinerary:
> 
> ...


It was no longer an option to extend. We will work with the days we have.

Which hotel did you book when you were in Munich? Did it have parking?


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

hatepotholez said:


> Jet lagg didn't really bother me that much when I flew on a international flight a few years back. Everyone's body handles jet lagg differently.


I've been to europe four times this year, #5 will be july 7. (as well as 20+ trips across the US)

Sleeping Pills.

My philosophy is that you will get jet lag, the trick is to avoid being tired on top of it! The problem is that the jet lag interferes with your sleep and you wind up not getting 8 hours. Not the first night, but the second and third nights.... By night 4-5 I am good. Usually just in time to come home... I live in PST so it is 9 hrs. East coast is definitely easier.

A

PS Keep in mind also that you will be driving a car, not partying or sightseeing- potentially more challenging with sleep issues. Just saying. Enjoy the trip!


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

ard said:


> I've been to europe four times this year, #5 will be july 7. (as well as 20+ trips across the US)
> 
> Sleeping Pills.
> 
> ...


I'll consider taking sleeping pills. It will be strange as by the time I take them it'll be 1pm NY time so by the time I land in Turkey it'll be 5am, and 2 hour layover and arrive to Munich at 10am.

I could technically stay awake the night before, board the plane take the sleeping pills and it'll be morning lol.


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## threeOh (Apr 24, 2003)

hatepotholez said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I read multiple ED trip itineraries but need some custom help.
> 
> ...


Skip the ring and the autobahn. The car's brand new, give it some break-in time. You will be driving a lot and that appears acceptable to you. Drive through Bavaria to either Fussen and enjoy a bit of Bavaria or push on to Lake Constance. Drive to Lucerne via local roads until Swiss border, highway to Lucerne. Spend a few days enjoying what is your main criteria. A day in the old town in Zurich is also very nice. Drop-off in Zurich.

At least for me, the experience is enjoying good food and sucking in the atmosphere. Not looking at mountains from a highway and eating in gas stations. The former choice needs time out of the car. If its a driving holiday you're looking for, stick to Bavaria and the northeastern part of Switzerland, drop-off Zurich. It's gorgeous.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

threeOh said:


> Skip the ring and the autobahn. The car's brand new, give it some break-in time. You will be driving a lot and that appears acceptable to you. Drive through Bavaria to either Fussen and enjoy a bit of Bavaria or push on to Lake Constance. Drive to Lucerne via local roads until Swiss border, highway to Lucerne. Spend a few days enjoying what is your main criteria. A day in the old town in Zurich is also very nice. Drop-off in Zurich.
> 
> At least for me, the experience is enjoying good food and sucking in the atmosphere. Not looking at mountains from a highway and eating in gas stations. The former choice needs time out of the car. If its a driving holiday you're looking for, stick to Bavaria and the northeastern part of Switzerland, drop-off Zurich. It's gorgeous.


Everything is being a push in this 1 week itinerary, I also don't want to eat in gas stations lol. If I can get great deals on hotels I can extend which would be sooooo much better.


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## German Expat (Sep 29, 2006)

hatepotholez said:


> Everything is being a push in this 1 week itinerary, I also don't want to eat in gas stations lol. If I can get great deals on hotels I can extend which would be sooooo much better.


Some Swiss gas stations have pretty good food in them. I tend to shop in their shops when I am heading back to the hotel and don't want to be bothered going out for dinner.


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## hatepotholez (Oct 10, 2006)

so, I had a family emergency. God willing when my family member is out of the hospital then I will reschedule my flight for the last week of Sept until the mid of the 1st week of Oct.

Since the itinerary can be changed now, and thankfully the 1st week of Oct is open except Oct 1st Friday. Based on this, I am considering flying into Munich, then stay in Zurich and flying out of Frankfurt after the ring. 

I will also extend the trip by a few days if we can.


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