# Clears for the 2002 3 series sedan!



## Cyclone (Jan 9, 2002)

Here are the pics after my install on my 2002 325i (these are OEM products imported from Germany). There is currently another group buy going on if you wish to order them. All the info can be found here: Click here for the info

The pics:


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

I like them! The clear is much better than the orange. Orange screams "LOOK AT ME!" drawing unneeded attention to the lighting.... which isn't the most pleasing! This is more subtle.


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## geomax (Dec 22, 2001)

I agree with JP - looks classy.:thumb:


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## Cyclone (Jan 9, 2002)

*Thanks...I love em! *

n/t


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## ad (Jan 29, 2002)

Looks great! Especially the rear, the clears give it a cleaner look. 

Are they easy to install? I wonder how much a dealership would charge to get these installed....2 hours labor??

ad


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## Cyclone (Jan 9, 2002)

ad said:


> *Looks great! Especially the rear, the clears give it a cleaner look.
> 
> Are they easy to install? I wonder how much a dealership would charge to get these installed....2 hours labor??
> 
> ad *


Easy DIYer. I'm going to create the file this weekend probably. Not worth paying a dealer to do it. I have NO car experience and I did it. If I can do it...anyone can! lol


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

Are the signals themselves still amber (legal)?


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Plaz 330i said:


> *Are the signals themselves still amber (legal)? *


Signals will be amber, but it will be missing the all important FMVSS 108 compliant amber reflector.

Not that anyone seems to pay attention to that law.  Well, except me.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

alee said:


> *
> Signals will be amber, but it will be missing the all important FMVSS 108 compliant amber reflector.
> 
> Not that anyone seems to pay attention to that law.  Well, except me. *


FMVSS? FileMaker Vanos Shortstop? :dunno:


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Plaz 330i said:


> *FMVSS? FileMaker Vanos Shortstop? :dunno: *


LOL! Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Statute I believe.


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## TD330ci (Dec 29, 2001)

alee said:


> *
> Signals will be amber, but it will be missing the all important FMVSS 108 compliant amber reflector.
> 
> Not that anyone seems to pay attention to that law.  Well, except me. *


Law, SHMAW!! 

Hehe..


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

alee said:


> *
> Signals will be amber, but it will be missing the all important FMVSS 108 compliant amber reflector.
> 
> Not that anyone seems to pay attention to that law.  Well, except me. *


Damn you though! I have some painted reflectors sitting in my garage for my M3 when it comes and then you go off saying it's illegal. And being right! Now I don't know if I should put them on or not...

But I probably will


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

TD330ci said:


> *
> 
> Law, SHMAW!!
> 
> Hehe..  *












Don't make me come after you TD330Ci  ... your car looks like a perfect candidate for extra parts for my car. :thumb:


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Imola Ed said:


> *
> Damn you though! I have some painted reflectors sitting in my garage for my M3 when it comes and then you go off saying it's illegal. And being right! Now I don't know if I should put them on or not...*


 I'm always right. :thumb:


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## TD330ci (Dec 29, 2001)

alee said:


> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Listen Mister I got EVERY option!! I might need some of your parts!! :yikes:

Hehe..


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

TD330ci said:


> *Listen Mister I got EVERY option!! I might need some of your parts!! :yikes: *


How about a nice steptronic transmission?


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## TD330ci (Dec 29, 2001)

alee said:


> *
> 
> How about a nice steptronic transmission?  *


As Bill the cat says ACK!!!! 

Umm, ok you can keep that part!!! :yikes:


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

*I have you now, alee!*

I've been researching FMVSS 108, and one quote I found was

"FMVSS only affect manufacturers, importers, distributors, dealers, and motor vehicle repair businesses. FMVSSs do not affect the consumer. The consumer is covered under the applicable state laws. However, if your state laws have adopted FMVSS No. 108, you may be able to apply the information below to your state."

With that in mind, I checked the laws here in CA, and it seems that you do not need amber reflectors on the front of the vehicle (unless the vehicle is over 80 inches wide). The interesting thing of note is that it says if you have side directionals, they should be amber. The M3s side directionals are clear!

Some proof:
_Reflectors on Front and Sides.
24608. (a) Motortrucks, trailers, semitrailers, and buses 80 or more
inches in width manufactured on or after January 1, 1968, shall be equipped
with an amber reflector on each side at the front and a red reflector on each
side at the rear. Any vehicle may be so equipped.

Turn Signal Lamps
24953. (a) Any turn signal system used to give a signal of intention to
turn right or left shall project a flashing white or amber light visible to the
front and a flashing red or amber light visible to the rear.
(b) Side-mounted turn signal lamps projecting a flashing amber light to
either side may be used to supplement the front and rear turn signals. Sidemounted
turn signal lamps mounted to the rear of the center of the vehicle
may project a flashing red light no part of which shall be visible from the
front.._

Yes! Whoo! Go me! Go me! It's my birthday!

Unless I'm reading it wrong, but I scanned it pretty well.


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## Keeferno (Jan 16, 2002)

Yep, looks right to me. And both Cyclone's car and the M3 are compliant to that because they do flash amber when on.


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

Hey, that's right, the side marker still flashes amber. Yes!


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

Keeferno said:


> *Yep, looks right to me. And both Cyclone's car and the M3 are compliant to that because they do flash amber when on. *


The site I was looking at says that TX has adopted FMVSS 108 as their laws, but looking at the actual code, it says nothing about front reflectors:

_§ 547.325. Reflectors Required
(a) Except as provided by Subchapter F, a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer shall be equipped with at least two red reflectors on the rear of the vehicle. A red reflector may be included as a part of a taillamp.
(b) A reflector shall be:
(1) mounted at a height from 15 to 60 inches; and
(2) visible at night at all distances:
(A) from 100 to 600 feet when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlamps; or
(B) from 100 to 350 feet when directly in front of lawful upper beams of headlamps if the vehicle was manufactured or assembled before January 1, 1972.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
_

So yes, it looks perfectly legal near as I can tell.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

*Re: I have you now, alee!*



Imola Ed said:


> *Reflectors on Front and Sides.
> 24608. (a) Motortrucks, trailers, semitrailers, and buses 80 or more
> inches in width manufactured on or after January 1, 1968, shall be equipped with an amber reflector on each side at the front and a red reflector on each side at the rear. Any vehicle may be so equipped.*


Crap, I just wrote this huge reply and my browser ditched.

Ok, here's my take on it...
If any state has adopted FMVSS 108, then any additional laws in the vehicle code will supplement FMVSS 108, and any omission would fall back on FMVSS 108, unless there was some sort of explicit exclusion clause. Somebody with legal background will have to correct me if I'm incorrect here.

However, if CA has not adopted FMVSS 108, then you may be right (ok, there... I've said it!  ).

What is not clear to me though is whether there are still minimum Federal guidelines for safety mechanisms that directly affect the consumer. I would have to believe there are, although I would have to research it.

Now I'm on a mission.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

According to SEMA, "even though the law does not regulate consumers who install equipment, manufacturers must be sure all product design and marketing materials are such that the intended use will leave the vehicle and its safety features in compliance with federal law."

That says to me that even if you are within the boundaries of CA motor vehicle code, you are still in violation of Federal law requirements.

I'll dig some more...


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

I don't interpret it that way. It says to me that manufacturers must comply with 108 (that's what it's for), but once the car is in a consumer's hands, state laws apply.


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

From CA Motor Vehicle Code, Division 12, Chapter 2, Article 14

_25803. (a) All vehicles not otherwise required to be equipped with headlamps, rear lights, *or* reflectors by this chapter shall, if operated on a highway during darkness, be equipped with a lamp exhibiting a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear of the vehicle. In addition, all of these vehicles operated alone or as the first vehicle in a combination of vehicles, shall be equipped with at least one lighted lamp exhibiting a white light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the front of the vehicle.

(b) A vehicle shall *also* be equipped with an amber reflector on the front near the left side and a red reflector on the rear near the left side. The reflectors shall be mounted on the vehicle not lower than 16 inches nor higher than 60 inches above the ground and so designed and maintained as to be visible during darkness from all distances within 500 feet from the vehicle when directly in front of a motor vehicle displaying lawful lighted headlamps undimmed.
_

Still reading....


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

alee said:


> *(b) A vehicle shall also be equipped with an amber reflector on the front near the left side and a red reflector on the rear near the left side. The reflectors shall be mounted on the vehicle not lower than 16 inches nor higher than 60 inches above the ground and so designed and maintained as to be visible during darkness from all distances within 500 feet from the vehicle when directly in front of a motor vehicle displaying lawful lighted headlamps undimmed.
> [/I] *


Hmmm. You might have me there.


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

Hmm. That seems to run counter to this somewhat...

_Vehicle Reflectors
24609. Any vehicle may be equipped with white or amber reflectors upon
the front of the vehicle, but they shall be mounted not lower than 15 inches
nor higher than 60 inches._

Also 25803 seems to indicate those reflectors are on the front of the vehicle (not the side), which I find interesting...

I never thought I'd be sitting here quoting vehicle code. It's much wordier than C++


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Imola Ed said:


> *I never thought I'd be sitting here quoting vehicle code. It's much wordier than C++  *


For the moment, it's more interesting than the Perl and C++ code I'm looking at. 

Where are all the lawyers!


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## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

Of course, if we're having such a big problem with finding out what's "legal", what are the chances Joe Officer is going to know?


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## Imola Ed (Dec 23, 2001)

alee said:


> *Of course, if we're having such a big problem with finding out what's "legal", what are the chances Joe Officer is going to know? *


I'm not worried so much about the police, I'm more worried about insurance implications if I got into an accident. But for someone to say that my lack of front reflectors caused them to hit my BRIGHT RED CAR, then something's amiss 

As it is I already drive without a front plate... I'm such a bad seed!


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## ism409 (Dec 22, 2001)

This is probably a stupid question but here it goes..Are those same rear lights available for 2000 models? I like the fact that the clear part is in the middle of the light rather that on the top.


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## Cyclone (Jan 9, 2002)

ism409 said:


> *This is probably a stupid question but here it goes..Are those same rear lights available for 2000 models? I like the fact that the clear part is in the middle of the light rather that on the top. *


Different parts, I believe. I don't think they fit, but some are looking into testing that theory. I may check in a month or so when we have a local BMW meet. I'll check them with a friend.


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