# Did I get ripped off?



## bimmerbuff (May 27, 2004)

Yssenneh said:


> Well for the GAP, I actually have 2-way full coverage auto insurance, so If the car does get into an accident *cross finger* my insurance would cover it, right? This did not occur to me at the time.


They would cover a total loss, but only pay whatever the "book value" of the car is at the time of the loss.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

Gap is a funny thing. When you lease most forum citizens urge you to not put money down because the gap insurance wouldn't cover that OMFG. But once you buy a car everybody screams at you to not get gap insurance


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Squiddie said:


> Gap is a funny thing. When you lease most forum citizens urge you to not put money down because the gap insurance wouldn't cover that OMFG. But once you buy a car everybody screams at you to not get gap insurance


GAP is automatically included by BMWFS on all their leases, which makes putting money down an unwise financial choice. The OP made a down payment on a used car, which has already experienced its most significant depreciation, and it is much less likely that he will be upside down on his loan payoff during the loan term.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

tturedraider said:


> GAP is automatically included by BMWFS on all their leases, which makes putting money down an unwise financial choice. The OP made a down payment on a used car, which has already experienced its most significant depreciation, and it is much less likely that he will be upside down on his loan payoff during the loan term.


I'm not arguing the OP should have bought it, but for the record. In the lease you pay for gap insurance. It's included but you pay for it, no choice. By putting in the downpayment and lowering your monthly payments you have also reduced both gap insurance premium and gap insurance coverage. So it makes little sense to say don't do downpayments because of the short gap insurance.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

So here is an alternative view on the OP's situation, from the dealer.

"well, this guy wants to buy this car. But BMWFS will only finance it at the rate he wants if he puts $7500 down. His car is worth $5000 and there is no cash. We give him the car as cheap was we would want. Now what?". 

"Well, here is what we do: if we give him $2500 more for his car then it doesn't go off cap, it goes into the downpayment and makes the deal a go from the financial framework. We then get the money back by selling him extra stuff that nobody needs, but it is just paying us back for the money we didn't want to give in the first place, so it's fair and nobody loses anything and the deal goes through."

That would all be fine if they hadn't then turned the $2500 gift to you into something that costs you $5685. The dealer probably makes $2500 off all that garbage so to them it probably looks fair. But you have a bit of money evaporating there in the deal lubrication. And to add insult to injury, you pay interest on that ripoff.


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## TA00 (Oct 16, 2014)

He needs gap for the fact he bought the car for 42 and it's only worth 30-33


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

Squiddie said:


> I'm not arguing the OP should have bought it, but for the record. In the lease you pay for gap insurance. It's included but you pay for it, no choice. By putting in the downpayment and lowering your monthly payments you have also reduced both gap insurance premium and gap insurance coverage. So it makes little sense to say don't do downpayments because of the short gap insurance.


Of course the cost of the GAP coverage is included in the lease costs, but if you think making a down payment on a BMWFS lease reduces the consumer's cost for the GAP coverage you're kidding yourself.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

TA00 said:


> He needs gap for the fact he bought the car for 42 and it's only worth 30-33


He needs to cancel the unnecessary coverages he bought.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

TA00 said:


> He needs gap for the fact he bought the car for 42 and it's only worth 30-33


from the OP:



> Amount Financed - $34,234.50


The gap will pay the difference between value and amount OWED. Not what he paid. If he totals the car tomorrow, the gap insurnace will not pay 42-33k = $9k

If he crashes the car he is out the upcharges and his downpayments, etc...all gap usually pays is the amount owed TO A LENDER minus the value.

His note starts at 34k. If the value is 33, his exposure is $1234, approx. The gap cost $895. He could leave than in the bank and that will be his gap plan.

And FYI: After 6 months his principal will be down to $31k.


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## bnguyen1983 (Sep 15, 2014)

Just the fact that they offered you 7.5k less for your trade in vs. Craigslist I would have walked away and dealt with that first.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

tturedraider said:


> Of course the cost of the GAP coverage is included in the lease costs, but if you think making a down payment on a BMWFS lease reduces the consumer's cost for the GAP coverage you're kidding yourself.


There's no fooling. The finance fraction of the lease payment includes a gap insurance premium. You lower the amount financed, you lower the payment, you lower the premium. Very simple insurance math. Risk versus premium. Just because there is no direct choice for the customer doesn't mean it isn't there.

People are just fooled by the gap insurance in the lease being particularly cheap. That doesn't mean it isn't there. If you are the type who never buys unnecessarily insurance then downpayments for the lease are working toward that goal.

It is still absurd to say that leasing people should avoid downpayments to keep gap insurance high while they recommand to buyers to keep gap insurance low. It doesn't make sense, and they are fooled by the lack of choice and the lack of visibility. You either recommend to cover the gap to get back where you were in the event of a crash or theft or you don't.

Of course in this case the OP has particularly expensive gap insurance, on a leased car.


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## TXPearl (Apr 16, 2010)

Squiddie said:


> There's no fooling. The finance fraction of the lease payment includes a gap insurance premium. You lower the amount financed, you lower the payment, you lower the premium. Very simple insurance math. Risk versus premium. Just because there is no direct choice for the customer doesn't mean it isn't there.
> 
> People are just fooled by the gap insurance in the lease being particularly cheap. That doesn't mean it isn't there. If you are the type who never buys unnecessarily insurance then downpayments for the lease are working toward that goal.
> 
> ...


Huh?


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## Rich328 (Jul 22, 2014)

Can you cancel the 5k add ons? If so do that and it might make the deal look better.


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## [email protected] BMW (Aug 2, 2010)

This thread make my Job so much harder.... Hate to see this happen to people.Next time check out one of the sponsors. You can probably still cancel tire and wheel and maintenance...contact dealer ASAP.


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

Squiddie said:


> There's no fooling. The finance fraction of the lease payment includes a gap insurance premium. You lower the amount financed, you lower the payment, you lower the premium. Very simple insurance math. Risk versus premium.


I'm unsure if you are kidding or not tbh, but I'll bait . The only reduction for a down payment would be that you would indeed pay less rent charge, keep in mind the rent charge is based on the entire value of the contract, not just the lease payments. This would be a very small savings, unless you planned on putting say 20% or more down (very unlikely)

What this has to do with risk and premium, not sure where you are going with that. There is no gap insurance premium payed by the customer, so putting money down would not give any savings to them for something they didn't pay for 



> People are just fooled by the gap insurance in the lease being particularly cheap. That doesn't mean it isn't there. If you are the type who never buys unnecessarily insurance then downpayments for the lease are working toward that goal.


Are you trying to say there is fine print somewhere on the contract indicating the cost of gap? And if said cost is so "particularly cheap" anyways then why would you put money down to reduce such an already cheap cost?



> It is still absurd to say that leasing people should avoid downpayments to keep gap insurance high while they recommand to buyers to keep gap insurance low.


I think you misunderstand the point of gap insurance. It covers the difference (gap) between the amount financed, and the book value of the car in case of a total loss.

Scenario 1) Customer leases a car, amount financed is $40,000. Car is totaled, book value is $35,000 Gap would cover the missing $5000. Customer loses nothing.

Scenario 2) Customer leases a car, amount financed is $32,500 (customer down payment of $7500). Car is totaled, book value is $35,000. Check back to the customer for $2,500. Customer lost $5000

This is why you don't put money down on a lease, but instead use MSD's. The MSD's are fully refundable in a total loss, downpayment is not. MSD's will reduce the rent charge at greater return than a downpayment.

:dunno:


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

If I were the OP, I would call the bank and tell them I misstated my income on the credit application, and take a 0 or two off the end. If the contract hasn't been funded, it certainly won't be after that news  and you can go ahead and cancel this "deal".


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## .Rolex (Mar 23, 2013)

dannyc9997 said:


> If I were the OP, I would call the bank and tell them I misstated my income on the credit application, and take a 0 or two off the end. If the contract hasn't been funded, it certainly won't be after that news  and you can go ahead and cancel this "deal".


lol, nice idea but probably won't work.. i'm sure they asked for income verification

anyway op, it happens.. you live and you learn

we got burned worse than you did 3 years back with the 'how much can you pay' game

we got a $24000 camry, put 10k down, and we were paying $555 a month @60 months with all the extras and things they packaged in without telling us (packed it into the stated monthly payment)

we got rid of the car a year later and had negative equity so we had to shell out a couple k

just don't make the same mistake next time. for now enjoy the car.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

dannyc9997 said:


> I'm unsure if you are kidding or not tbh, but I'll bait . The only reduction for a down payment would be that you would indeed pay less rent charge, keep in mind the rent charge is based on the entire value of the contract, not just the lease payments. This would be a very small savings, unless you planned on putting say 20% or more down (very unlikely)
> 
> What this has to do with risk and premium, not sure where you are going with that. There is no gap insurance premium payed by the customer, so putting money down would not give any savings to them for something they didn't pay for
> 
> ...


Yes, so you are telling leasing people to get the full gap insurance, the only way to do that in a lease is no downpayment.

At the same time people recommend to buyers (as opposed to leasers) to never get gap insurance.

It doesn't make any sense. Granted the gap insurance in this particular case is a lot more expensive than the one in the lease but this isn't the only thread where that is happening.


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## Lionnutz (Jul 24, 2014)

Squiddie said:


> Yes, so you are telling leasing people to get the full gap insurance, the only way to do that in a lease is no downpayment.
> 
> At the same time people recommend to buyers (as opposed to leasers) to never get gap insurance.
> 
> It doesn't make any sense. Granted the gap insurance in this particular case is a lot more expensive than the one in the lease but this isn't the only thread where that is happening.


In this instance the OP bought the car. I think people have stated in this particular case with the down payment being a good percentage of the "value" of the car, if he were to total the car today or in the future getting gap insurance for this deal would not be cost effective since the likely hood of needing it to cover a total loss is extremely small. His primary insurance with the right coverage would most likely be able to cover the entire value minus the down payment thus not requiring gap insurance.

We are not told to get gap insurance on a lease. BMWFS does so automatically on every single lease to protect themselves.

I totaled a BMW 5 series barely 6 months into the lease in 2009. My CA recommended a body shop and they said it's better to declare a total loss. My insurance paid out to BMWFS what they appraised the car as and BMW gap insurance paid out the difference of that amount and the "purchase price". Once my insurance did its part I was off the hook from that car already. Without the gap insurance BMWFS would have only been able to get 80% of the the purchased price of the car even factoring in The months I had already paid.

The reason u don't put down payments on a lease is that money is gone if u total the car day 1 or the last day of the lease. The down payment will basically reduce the amount gap insurance would have to cover in the event of a total lost. Why would u wanna do that on a lease? Use that down payment money toward MSDs so even in a total lost ur money is safe and not being used to help pay for a totaled car u will no longer be driving.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm tired of going in circles. Gap insurance works the same way whether you lease or buy. You pay a premium for the safety again the loss. Differences are that you have less control in the lease case and that the OP payed too much. Doesn't change one bit about how gap insurance works.


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## ddeliber (Jan 31, 2013)

Squiddie said:


> The monthly payment does, and hence the insurance premium.
> 
> Do you honestly believe that you guys get free insurance out of this?


Who ever said anything about free insurance? It is build in to the price of the lease, just like maintenance is built in to the price of the car.

On a lease, the monthly payment includes precisely the amount financed and the interest/money factor. There are a bazillion lease calculators out there, add up the costs of the car + fixed costs like reg tax fees (itemized on the deal), plug in the money factor and it computes the monthly cost. I tried 2 in less than 5 min and I got the same cost.

The only potential variable in there is the money factor. Given that the buy rate of 0.00130ish (which translates to approximately 3.12%), is less than many if not most others out there I don't see where the gap insurance would fit.

I will ask again, are you claiming that gap insurance is built in to the money factor or someplace else?


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

ddeliber said:


> Who ever said anything about free insurance? It is build in to the price of the lease, just like maintenance is built in to the price of the car.
> 
> On a lease, the monthly payment includes precisely the amount financed and the interest/money factor. There are a bazillion lease calculators out there, add up the costs of the car + fixed costs like reg tax fees (itemized on the deal), plug in the money factor and it computes the monthly cost. I tried 2 in less than 5 min and I got the same cost.
> 
> ...


It's rolled into the monthly cost, obviously, because it makes no sense to roll it into the acquisition fee which is the same for a $32000 and a $95000 car.

Your downpayment lowers your monthly cost, all of it.

I don't understand what is so hard to get about this. Do you really think that BMW is just eating up their own cost for gap insurance when somebody buys a $95000 car? No. Didn't think so.


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## ddeliber (Jan 31, 2013)

Squiddie said:


> It's rolled into the monthly cost, obviously, because it makes no sense to roll it into the acquisition fee which is the same for a $32000 and a $95000 car.
> 
> Your downpayment lowers your monthly cost, all of it.


By how much (for monthly rent)? Don't forget the vast majority of the monthly cost is principal. The rest is interest. 3.12% apr there is no room for insurance in there.



Squiddie said:


> I don't understand what is so hard to get about this. Do you really think that BMW is just eating up their own cost for gap insurance when somebody buys a $95000 car? No. Didn't think so.


Since we are speaking of insurance and that leads to percentages - how many get paid - etc. BMW will sell about 140,000 3 and 4 series in the US this year. How many 6ers and 7ers, I'm guessing less than 20k. Who do you think is paying the majority of the gap insurance costs?


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Now squiddie is making some theoretic argument of how BMW must handle this from an accounting perspective.

Having confused many readers with his assertions as if buyers have some actual control over this, it turns out that this was based in his own little reality,

Troll.


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

Squiddie said:


> The monthly payment does, and hence the insurance premium.
> 
> Do you honestly believe that you guys get free insurance out of this?


What in the world are you talking about? I was in F&I for years, never once did the cost of gap change other than based on the term (number of months). What does the monthly payment have to do with anything? Gap is a one time charge, fixed cost amount. The F&I manager can sell it for whatever he wants, but not on a BMW lease. It's not charged to the customer, whatever cost (the cost is *less than $200 btw*) is, it comes out of the finance reserves which are obtained by the bank as part of the deal. How hard is that to understand?


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

Squiddie said:


> It's rolled into the monthly cost, obviously, because it makes no sense to roll it into the acquisition fee which is the same for a $32000 and a $95000 car.
> 
> Your downpayment lowers your monthly cost, all of it.
> 
> I don't understand what is so hard to get about this. Do you really think that BMW is just eating up their own cost for gap insurance when somebody buys a $95000 car? No. Didn't think so.


The cost of gap insurance IS the same, no matter if it's a $32k loan or a $95k loan. I never worked for BMW in particular, but I've sold $80,000 cars and $20,000 cars and gap is exactly the same cost. It's the number of years that changes the cost, and whether it's a lease or buy.


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## timsev (Jun 6, 2011)

dannyc9997 said:


> What in the world are you talking about? I was in F&I for years, never once did the cost of gap change other than based on the term (number of months). What does the monthly payment have to do with anything? Gap is a one time charge, fixed cost amount. The F&I manager can sell it for whatever he wants, but not on a BMW lease. It's not charged to the customer, whatever cost (the cost is *less than $200 btw*) is, it comes out of the finance reserves which are obtained by the bank as part of the deal. How hard is that to understand?


Exactly. The risk does change based on the price of the car and the actual premium between BMW and Safeguard may be based on price, but that doesn't matter because it's not passed on to the end user. As you mention, the pricing structure between BMW and dealers is fixed and is based on <60 month or >60 months, no limitations to price at all. The cost has risen in the past few years actually to around $300. The same applies to the lease and BMW tells us (dealers) that the GAP is included in the Acq fee. I don't know why the guy feels like he knows the facts when he clearly doesn't.


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## Yssenneh (Nov 8, 2014)

Just wanted to clarify that this is NOT a lease. It is a purchase through 60 month finance at 1.9% and $7,500 down (value of my car traded-in)

I've been calling and calling but the finance guy that was associated with this deal never picks up the phone. I left him voice messages to and asked him to call me back. Nothing. So I will be going directly to the dealership tomorrow to find him. 

I will definitely cancel the BMW Wheels & Tires coverage, but now I am sorta on the fence regarding the Extended Maintenance and GAP Insurance. 

Extended Maintenance because over the course of 5 years, I will need to have things replaced -- but for the price almost 3k... I don't know if that is worth it.

GAP Insurance because IF something does happen such as car being totaled; my insurance pays the value of the car to the dealership, but I still owe X amount, the GAP will come in handy. 

But I am no expert and my knowledge here is basically zilch, so can someone knowledgeable advise me what to do? Some of the previous posts suggested I cancel all 3, would this be the best option?


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## Spartan01 (Aug 24, 2014)

Yssenneh said:


> Just wanted to clarify that this is NOT a lease. It is a purchase through 60 month finance at 1.9% and $7,500 down (value of my car traded-in)
> 
> I've been calling and calling but the finance guy that was associated with this deal never picks up the phone. I left him voice messages to and asked him to call me back. Nothing. So I will be going directly to the dealership tomorrow to find him.
> 
> ...


In my experience, I bought GAP coverage for two of my previous cars and never used them. I ended up trading the car in a few years.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Yssenneh said:


> Just wanted to clarify that this is NOT a lease. It is a purchase through 60 month finance at 1.9% and $7,500 down (value of my car traded-in)
> 
> I've been calling and calling but the finance guy that was associated with this deal never picks up the phone. I left him voice messages to and asked him to call me back. Nothing. So I will be going directly to the dealership tomorrow to find him.
> 
> ...


THe information you need is all hear. We've explained this to you.

The BMW has a 4 year maintenance plan. FOR FREE. Comes with every new BMW!!! You seem to be buying one extra year for $3k. You keep saying "maintenance over 5 years"..>WTF are you talking about?????? The first 4 years are free.

On the GAP, the actual truth is YOU HARDLY HAVE ANY GAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why worry about buying gap when in 4 months the gap will be $0? Amazing that you cannot figure this out.

Cancel all three. It just astounds me that people can be employed and make enough money to buy these cars but simply cannot understand high school math concepts!

Finally, you are going to TALK to the finance guy? He will spin you around like he did before. You need to READ the docs and CANCEL them in the manner the docs state. Write a letter, hand it to them. Not a mealy-mouthed, whiney phone call that the finance guy will ignore until the 30 days are gone


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## ddeliber (Jan 31, 2013)

Yssenneh said:


> Just wanted to clarify that this is NOT a lease. It is a purchase through 60 month finance at 1.9% and $7,500 down (value of my car traded-in)
> 
> I've been calling and calling but the finance guy that was associated with this deal never picks up the phone. I left him voice messages to and asked him to call me back. Nothing. So I will be going directly to the dealership tomorrow to find him.
> 
> ...


Let me try to explain my take on this. ard is 100% correct in all of his points as usual; however, he also has a tendency to be a bit over dramatic. So, in a slightly less condescending way:

yes, you should cancel all 3 immediately. Just by looking at any singl item that your gigantic prick of a [email protected] guy pushed on you should explain how trustworthy he is. Nothing he sold you is even remotely close to the LIST price. Sure there is a BMW backed program for each item, he just seemed to have marked them up literally > 100%.

Now this thread has veered a bit from your initial post. Mostly because one poster was providing incorrect information and we got sidetracked discussing this. For your situation:

-GAP insurance covers the difference between financed amount and value of the car. You already put down $7k so I believe there isn't much if any gap to cover. They of course should have told you this. Regardless, gap insurance on a NEW lease would cost in the neighborhood of $300. You bought a CPO and the depreciation that the original owner/leasser took over the first 3ish years decreased the gap significantly. If you had a legit offer it should be less than that of a new car. However, the extras that were added on change things some but I am not sure if that would be covered anyway. Plus if you are going to cancel them then there is not much more to talk about here.

-tire and wheel is just double the starting price most dealers offer. You already decided to cancel so we'll just leave it at that.

-extended maintenance. I believe BMW only offers extended maintenance in coverage from the initial sale of the car. It is free for the first 4 yrs (you have it probably for another few months to a year or so). a 5 yr plan adds 1 year and so on. If what I believe is the case, he sold you 1 additional yr for $3k. Than is 1 oil change, one air filter, maybe a micro filter, wipers, brake fluid service and possibly (but not likely) brakes. That is ridiculous. I was offered 2 years at what I believe to be the list price of $2,095. I turned them down because I believe it is still overpriced for what you get (or even might get).

From this, and the fact that your F&I guy can't be trusted for ANYTHING I would cancel everything right away and not in a polite way. If you want maintenance you can still buy it from any dealer you like. I wouldn't buy a coffee mug from these guys, and I would tell everyone I could about how full of Sh!T they are. Oh, and by the way, as ard alluded, I bet your sleazy F&I guy will call you back 31 days from your sale date so don't wait. Read the docs and find out how to cancel them yourself. I doubt that this dealer will be above board with anything going forward.


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## Squiddie (Dec 19, 2010)

Yssenneh said:


> Extended Maintenance because over the course of 5 years, I will need to have things replaced -- but for the price almost 3k... I don't know if that is worth it.
> 
> GAP Insurance because IF something does happen such as car being totaled; my insurance pays the value of the car to the dealership, but I still owe X amount, the GAP will come in handy.


You never told us what that Extended Maintenance includes, specifically. Since you don't call it warranty it is very unlikely that it actually includes replacing anything notable that would be expensive otherwise.

We debated gap insurance... to some extent. However, everybody is in agreement that your premium is way too high to make this a useful insurance. The Premium is almost as high as any gap you can imagine will be, even early in your loan.


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

ddeliber said:


> Let me try to explain my take on this. ard is 100% correct in all of his points as usual; however, he also has a tendency to be a bit over dramatic. So, in a slightly less condescending way:
> 
> yes, you should cancel all 3 immediately. Just by looking at any singl item that your gigantic prick of a [email protected] guy pushed on you should explain how trustworthy he is. Nothing he sold you is even remotely close to the LIST price. Sure there is a BMW backed program for each item, he just seemed to have marked them up literally > 100%.
> 
> ...


What he said..


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## timsev (Jun 6, 2011)

Haha, will this thread die now?


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

Yssenneh said:


> Just wanted to clarify that this is NOT a lease. It is a purchase through 60 month finance at 1.9% and $7,500 down (value of my car traded-in)
> 
> I've been calling and calling but the finance guy that was associated with this deal never picks up the phone. I left him voice messages to and asked him to call me back. Nothing.


He's probably in Hawaii with the commission he made off your deal. You don't even need to deal with him, look at the contracts and call the numbers. You can clearly state your intent to cancel with BMWFS. You can be assured of a call back from the dealer once you make that call.


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## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

timsev said:


> Haha, will this thread die now?


I will continue beating the horse until I find the candy


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## Yssenneh (Nov 8, 2014)

ddeliber said:


> Let me try to explain my take on this. ard is 100% correct in all of his points as usual; however, he also has a tendency to be a bit over dramatic. So, in a slightly less condescending way:
> 
> yes, you should cancel all 3 immediately. Just by looking at any singl item that your gigantic prick of a [email protected] guy pushed on you should explain how trustworthy he is. Nothing he sold you is even remotely close to the LIST price. Sure there is a BMW backed program for each item, he just seemed to have marked them up literally > 100%.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate the straight forwardness.

I received an reply email from the finance guy today which says:

"the gap and wheel and tire are cancellable, the refund will go to the principal amout and it take around 6-8 weeks for the cancellation"

over 2 months though? and he did not mention the Extended Maintenance coverage which is $2895.

In any case, i'm going to write a letter for cancellation of all the 3 coverages.

My question now is does the letter need to be formal? Or do I simply write something along the lines of "I am cancelling the Extended Maintenance coverage, BMW Wheels & Tire coverage, and GAP Insurance" with my signature, date and car vin number?


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2012)

Yssenneh said:


> Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate the straight forwardness.
> 
> I received an reply email from the finance guy today which says:
> 
> ...


Dude why are you relying on a public forum to tell you how to go about your business? They have already told you what you need to do numerous times.

How to cancel and what you need to do to cancel is in the fine print in the contracts you signed. Did you read any of it? You couldn't have because if you did you would know EXACTLY what to do.

Dealers are not non profit organizations...they/we are not here to baby every customer that walks through the door. How do you guys think FI gets pay if every other deal is rolled out on base rates. It is the buyers job to do the homework not the sellers job to do it for you.


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## dewana421 (Oct 9, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Dude why are you relying on a public forum to tell you how to go about your business? They have already told you what you need to do numerous times.
> 
> How to cancel and what you need to do to cancel is in the fine print in the contracts you signed. Did you read any of it? You couldn't have because if you did you would know EXACTLY what to do.
> 
> Dealers are not non profit organizations...they/we are not here to baby every customer that walks through the door. How do you guys think FI gets pay if every other deal is rolled out on base rates. It is the buyers job to do the homework not the sellers job to do it for you.


Easy on the lecture. OP is just asking for some help. Not everyone is so financially wise and not everyone know how FI gets paid. Seems like you work for a dealer so take it easy on the guy.


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2012)

dewana421 said:


> Easy on the lecture. OP is just asking for some help. Not everyone is so financially wise and not everyone know how FI gets paid. Seems like you work for a dealer so take it easy on the guy.


I think at post 100 it's beyond let's take it easy... It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Read what you signed ... It tells you exactly what you need to do.


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## dewana421 (Oct 9, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> I think at post 100 it's beyond let's take it easy... It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.
> 
> Read what you signed ... It tells you exactly what you need to do.


Post got to 100 because of other non related discussions among others and their personal opinions - not OP. No need to take it out on him.


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## iwantone (Jun 2, 2005)

CANCEL everything....!!!! Maybe sell the car


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## variable229 (Dec 28, 2003)

iwantone said:


> CANCEL everything....!!!! Maybe sell the car


Why not drive the car into the ocean and declare a total loss?? Have the gap insurance pick up the balance.


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## JP 99300 (Sep 29, 2004)

ard said:


> Finally, you are going to TALK to the finance guy? He will spin you around like he did before. You need to READ the docs and CANCEL them in the manner the docs state. Write a letter, hand it to them. Not a mealy-mouthed, whiney phone call that the finance guy will ignore until the 30 days are gone


THIS! READ your contracts. Now, write a simple letter stating that in accordance with the terms of the contracts you are cancelling them. List each contract out by its formal name in your letter (even better if you reference the cancellation section for each contract). Follow the contract terms for cancellation explicitly. Mail the cancellation letter by CERTIFIED mail so they can't say they did not receive it in time. Easy.


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## Keyser Soze (Oct 24, 2003)

Not to be a smart arse but were you wearing a Twitter t-shirt when you went into BMW of SF? That place is ground zero of bad deals. They might have smelled new money easy prey and just rolled out every single horrible trick on you.

I also agree with the nuclear option : try to cancel the entire sale and get a rental for a month until you can get another BMW of your choosing from a straight shooting forum sponsor.


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## Hammonddave (Oct 6, 2014)

Hate to sound mean, but its true. The American buying public is filled with people who believe everything that the seller tells them. They pay a premium of thousands of dollars to cover the dealer's margins, allowing people me to negotiate a fair price for a car. 

Extended warranties, tire and wheel insurance, gap insurance... crap crap crap! Listen, the dealer is not doing you any favors selling you extended service plans, warranties, or anything else they pile on. Just say NO! 

I walked out of Beverly Hills BMW when their finance guy tried selling me all this crap. I told him that I did not want anything and just give me the papers to sign. He kept on selling, I got up and walked out. Bought a $32000 car from another LA dealer. I was in and out of their finance office in 15 minutes. 

To the OP... I am sorry that they ripped you off. Cancel everything. In fact, if they offer you to cancel the entire deal, do it. Find an honest dealer. That is worth more than anything else.


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## Hammonddave (Oct 6, 2014)

Hate to sound mean, but its true. The American buying public is filled with people who believe everything that the seller tells them. They pay a premium of thousands of dollars to cover the dealer's margins, allowing people like me to negotiate a fair price for a car. 

Extended service agreements, tire and wheel insurance, gap insurance... crap crap crap! Listen, the dealer is not doing you any favors selling you extended service plans, warranties, or anything else they pile on. Just say NO! 

I walked out of Beverly Hills BMW when their finance guy tried selling me all this crap. I told him that I did not want anything and just give me the papers to sign. He kept on selling, I got up and walked out. Bought a $32000 car from another LA dealer (South Bay BMW) the same day. I was in and out of their finance office in 15 minutes. 

To the OP... I am sorry that they ripped you off. Cancel everything. In fact, if they offer you to cancel the entire deal, do it. Find an honest dealer. That is worth more than anything else.


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## Hammonddave (Oct 6, 2014)

Here is a copy of the CONTRACT. Always demand to see this when you are being sold a service agreement. Look at what is listed under "What is not Covered". 
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=399814&d=1380649108


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Hammonddave said:


> Here is a copy of the CONTRACT. Always demand to see this when you are being sold a service agreement. Look at what is listed under "What is not Covered".
> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=399814&d=1380649108


OP DID NOT BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY!!!!

You are posting something and telling him to read it, when it wasn't one of the items he bought.

Understandably this thread has been confused by idiots spouting nonsense about gap and EVP/warranties, so I am not surprised.


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## Hammonddave (Oct 6, 2014)

ard said:


> OP DID NOT BUY THE EXTENDED WARRANTY!!!!
> 
> You are posting something and telling him to read it, when it wasn't one of the items he bought.
> 
> Understandably this thread has been confused by idiots spouting nonsense about gap and EVP/warranties, so I am not surprised.


You are correct... he bought the extended service agreement... which is what I posted. So before you start calling me an idiot, read what I post.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

From post #1:



Yssenneh said:


> Extended maintenance plan (5 years) - $2895.


THAT is not the ESP/EVP/Warranty.

Maintenance plan is maintenance...not what you posted.

Furthermore in THREE of the OPs posts in this thread he clearly repeats MAINTENANCE.

I actually was referring to others as the idiots for confusing this thread...you were just following the confusion. But as they say, reading IS fundamental.


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## Hammonddave (Oct 6, 2014)

OK>.. So I may be confused as well. I blame this all on BMW!


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