# Germany to Extend Pandemic Travel Ban for Non-European Countries to At Least 31 Aug.



## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

While it would be nice if it's not extended past 31.8., that's not a given and it's mostly dependent at that point on how well a country is doing in controlling the virus.

*Germany to Extend Coronavirus Travel Ban for Non-European Countries Into Late August*



> Germany, which last week said it would lift its travel ban on 29 European countries, including Britain and Iceland, on June 15, will keep its ban on travelers from outside the European Union in place through the end of August....
> 
> <SNIP>


This makes things extremely difficult for anyone trying to do European Delivery before the program ends.


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

Only way Germany can enforce this is via direct TATL flights from the US to Munich/Frankfurt/Berlin, etc. What happens when connecting via AMS, LHR, MAD or CDG, as the passenger would then be on a intra Schengen Area flight? Immigration infectious control would fall on that respective country.

A lot of Sun Set ED’s will be be cancelled, as the risk is too high.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Ibiza said:


> Only way Germany can enforce this is via direct TATL flights from the US to Munich/Frankfurt/Berlin, etc. What happens when connecting via AMS, LHR, MAD or CDG, as the passenger would then be on a intra Schengen Area flight? Immigration infectious control would fall on that respective country.
> 
> A lot of Sun Set ED's will be be cancelled, as the risk is too high.


I presume Germany will still do spot checks on Autobahnen based on this news.

I've driven from Austria to Germany several times recently (right before that border was completely closed) and my smiling face and my German Kennzeichen resulted in the border guard just waving me through.

Re connecting flights, if you are going via flight connections, the agent can see whence you came and could deny access to the ongoing flight if instructed to do so.


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## Helles (Dec 8, 2011)

I've been following this carefully as I have an ED pending. It seems the battle is between individual countries and the EU governing body. 
From what I can tell, Germany is advising it's own citizens not to travel outwards to non-approved counties for non-essential travel. Some of the other EU members like Portugal and Greece have stated that they are intending to fully open their borders to international tourism. I don't know is there is any kind of supremacy clause within the EU for these kinds of decisions - similar to states rights here in the US.

I also came across this article published this morning.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamara...-tourists-july-1-borders-reopen/#9b6834efe662


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Helles said:


> I also came across this article published this morning.
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamara...-tourists-july-1-borders-reopen/#9b6834efe662


What a terribly misleading lede! ("Europe travels are on the cards-for all tourists, not just Europeans-as the EU ban draws to an end starting on July 1...") I would have fired that journalist had he been in our employ but none of our correspondents would ever write a lede like that.


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## Shon528 (Oct 3, 2003)

In regards to upcoming ED, I was sent this link. Not clear if borders may open July 1st.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Shon528 said:


> In regards to upcoming ED, I was sent this link. Not clear if borders may open July 1st.
> 
> https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus


Germany at this point has reopened almost all if not all of its land borders by today.

Regarding any upcoming EDs, as I mentioned upstream, it would be at the earliest at the very end of August and given that the R naught figure has gone sky high, I would now bet on September.

*Coronavirus News: June 22 - Cases Rise in 18 States, Germany's R0 Rate Jumps to 2.88*


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

I fear that the last US spec European Delivery cars have already taken place, the last one in March. There are at least two scheduled. A Bimmerfester is scheduled for July 7 and sometime in early September.

I fear that the Welt will be open but the customer won't be able to get to Germany.

Sure, there are ways but none of them practical. For example, a James Bond type parachute drop or a 14 day quarantine in the UK then going to Germany by land. 

Hopefully, the European Delivery customers will ask and then be allowed to partly experience it at a later date. What I mean is a letter to them acting as an admission pass so that they can one day come to Germany and visit the lounge, grand staircase, and walk to the turnstiles with the cars briefly. Not quite the same but better than nothing.

The European Delivery customers will, I predict, have their cars shipped to the US without a Welt visit due to Covid-19.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Dave 20T said:


> I fear that the last US spec European Delivery cars have already taken place, the last one in March. There are at least two scheduled. A Bimmerfester is scheduled for July 7 and sometime in early September.
> 
> I fear that the Welt will be open but the customer won't be able to get to Germany.
> 
> ...


I don't believe that BMW would deliver a vehicle to someone who is (only) a U.S. citizen and essentially in Germany in violation of the travel ban.

I am not even sure if BMW would deliver a car to me at this point - although I intend to go to the Welt to do a final ED story (even if the final ED has already passed).

I'm sad but glad you concur with my conclusion at this point. I know a few people moved their deliveries into September but I see that as a 25% chance at best.

Makes me thankful for the well over a dozen EDs I already did and the ability to participate in friends' EDs as well as some done by people I met here.

I've said it before but I treasure this forum and the online and real friends I've made. (Real friends who have remained close for over a decade include one Bavarian and one Mainer or whatever someone who comes from Maine is called.)


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## dll2k4 (Feb 6, 2010)

This is not the news I wanted to hear. It is especially disappointing given that I reside in a county with very few COVID-19 cases.

I am currently scheduled for an 8/7 delivery but able to postpone until 9/30 if necessary.

The end of September is a long way off. Perhaps Germany/Schengen area will provide some exception for U.S. citizens traveling from low-risk areas, or even an accommodation for those who can obtain a negative PCR test before leaving or en route (e.g. via Iceland).


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

dll2k4 said:


> This is not the news I wanted to hear. It is especially disappointing given that I reside in a county with very few COVID-19 cases.
> 
> I am currently scheduled for an 8/7 delivery but able to postpone until 9/30 if necessary.
> 
> The end of September is a long way off. Perhaps Germany/Schengen area will provide some exception for U.S. citizens traveling from low-risk areas, or even an accommodation for those who can obtain a negative PCR test before leaving or en route (e.g. via Iceland).


Unfortunately, Sept 26th is the last date that you pick up for ED. A number of us in the M2 group have ED's scheduled for Sept. I am currently scheduled to pick mine up on Sept 7th. I am giving it a 50-50 chance it will happen. Disappointing to say the least. BMW should have waited a bit longer to sunset the program.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

dll2k4 said:


> This is not the news I wanted to hear. It is especially disappointing given that I reside in a county with very few COVID-19 cases.
> 
> I am currently scheduled for an 8/7 delivery but able to postpone until 9/30 if necessary.
> 
> The end of September is a long way off. Perhaps Germany/Schengen area will provide some exception for U.S. citizens traveling from low-risk areas, or even an accommodation for those who can obtain a negative PCR test before leaving or en route (e.g. via Iceland).


Given that some states in the United States are first letting U.S. citizens in from other states now only with proof of a negative Covid-19 test, I can't see this happening that quickly in the European Union. I do however agree that the testing idea for U.S. citizens has merit, which is why I was so pleased when Iceland and Austria (in different ways and for different groups of people) rolled it out.

I can however promise that the EU will treat the US as a single entity. There is zero possibility for an exception for someone from a low-risk area. In addition, with the current U.S. travel ban, I don't see the EU acting first given that the US ban came first.

I will continue to monitor the situation carefully and report here and will likely travel to Austria within the next few weeks and report from there as well.


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## dll2k4 (Feb 6, 2010)

mercury26 said:


> Unfortunately, Sept 26th is the last date that you pick up for ED. A number of us in the M2 group have ED's scheduled for Sept. I am currently scheduled to pick mine up on Sept 7th. I am giving it a 50-50 chance it will happen. Disappointing to say the least. BMW should have waited a bit longer to sunset the program.


Thanks for that info! I have located the F87 ED thread and will definitely be lurking there until this comes to some resolution, good or bad.


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## dll2k4 (Feb 6, 2010)

JSpira said:


> Given that some states in the United States are first letting U.S. citizens in from other states now only with proof of a negative Covid-19 test, I can't see this happening that quickly in the European Union. I do however agree that the testing idea for U.S. citizens has merit, which is why I was so pleased when Iceland and Austria (in different ways and for different groups of people) rolled it out.
> 
> I can however promise that the EU will treat the US as a single entity. There is zero possibility for an exception for someone from a low-risk area. In addition, with the current U.S. travel ban, I don't see the EU acting first given that the US ban came first.
> 
> I will continue to monitor the situation carefully and report here and will likely travel to Austria within the next few weeks and report from there as well.


Thank you. I found it interesting that RKI has delineated for German travelers those US states currently having an increased risk of infection:

https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Risikogebiete_neu.html

I was holding out hope that it could also be used to assess the risk of U.S. residents in the future. Nonetheless, I will certainly look forward to your travel reporting.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

dll2k4 said:


> Thank you. I found it interesting that RKI has delineated for German travelers those US states currently having an increased risk of infection:
> 
> https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Risikogebiete_neu.html
> 
> I was holding out hope that it could also be used to assess the risk of U.S. residents in the future. Nonetheless, I will certainly look forward to your travel reporting.


The RKI is generally spot on in these matters.


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

Spain is apparently opening up the boarders for all international travelers as of July 1, 2020 to promote tourism, but the EU is internally debating this as per the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html

To high risk to fly to Munich from a "open" international tourism EU country and then connect onto Germany, as I'm sure there will be temperature screening upon arrival from a Schengen country at the German airports.

Doubt train stations would have temperature checks, but to go through all that travel hassle for a ED-- not worth it. I agree with the above posts, that the Welt will probably not allow US customers to take delivery. This is not going change until a vaccine is available and/or FDA approved treatment.


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

dll2k4 said:


> Thank you. I found it interesting that RKI has delineated for German travelers those US states currently having an increased risk of infection:
> 
> https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Risikogebiete_neu.html
> 
> I was holding out hope that it could also be used to assess the risk of U.S. residents in the future. Nonetheless, I will certainly look forward to your travel reporting.


For what it is worth, Colorado is not on the list. Whoo hoo.


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## Shon528 (Oct 3, 2003)

Dave 20T said:


> I fear that the last US spec European Delivery cars have already taken place, the last one in March. There are at least two scheduled. A Bimmerfester is scheduled for July 7 and sometime in early September.
> 
> I fear that the Welt will be open but the customer won't be able to get to Germany.
> 
> ...


The more that I read (NYT, travel sites, etc), the more I am coming around to the realization that this just may not happen. We're giving ourselves 2 more days to decide on pushing it out to mid-August to see what happens or just throw in the towel and have the car shipped here.


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## dll2k4 (Feb 6, 2010)

The next country list update should be out in two weeks. If there's no movement by then I'll push the delivery date out to the week of 9/21. Worst case I'll probably go with a PCD.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

Latest update:

*Europe Poised to Reopen Borders to 14 Countries, But Not to Americans or Russians*

So Americans will be joined by Turks and Russians in being unable to enter the EU it would appear.

Only the citizens of 14 nations will be able to initially enter.


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## dll2k4 (Feb 6, 2010)

dll2k4 said:


> The next country list update should be out in two weeks. If there's no movement by then I'll push the delivery date out to the week of 9/21. Worst case I'll probably go with a PCD.


We have a new delivery date confirmed at BMW Welt on 9/25.


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## AggieKnight (Dec 26, 2008)

Based on the EU's criteria, we're never going to be allowed back in the EU. ;-)

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/...-travel-restrictions-at-the-external-borders/


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## Shon528 (Oct 3, 2003)

Anything new? Our date is scheduled for 8/4 but I'm highly doubtful that is going to happen. I have an email out to my CA and the person we've been dealing w/ BMWNA to see if there's anything being done about the ED cars waiting to be picked up by people who are unable to enter Germany.


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

Shon528 said:


> Anything new? Our date is scheduled for 8/4 but I'm highly doubtful that is going to happen. I have an email out to my CA and the person we've been dealing w/ BMWNA to see if there's anything being done about the ED cars waiting to be picked up by people who are unable to enter Germany.


If you want the car, ask that they deliver it now or ASAP. I fear that US passport holders that live in the US will not be allowed into Germany for non-essential purposes anytime soon.

If you want to possibly make it happen, reschedule it to later in September. That's the latest date that BMW will do a European Delivery unless you ask and they agree. There is a small chance that Germany could open up in September.

The way I see it, the only reasonable way to get to Germany would be to do a 14 day quarantine in the UK or Ireland. Most people don't have any kind of German residence pass or essential duties or are going to a US military base, three ways to get in. Croatia is a possibility because they let Americans in. I haven't researched if the Croatia-Slovenia border is open but Slovenia is Schengen. I also haven't researched the Gibraltar-Spain border. Spain is Schengen and Gibraltar has only customs, not immigration, for UK-Gibraltar flights. I also wonder if Americans can get into Morocco then to Gibraltar?


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## Shon528 (Oct 3, 2003)

Dave 20T said:


> If you want the car, ask that they deliver it now or ASAP. I fear that US passport holders that live in the US will not be allowed into Germany for non-essential purposes anytime soon.
> 
> If you want to possibly make it happen, reschedule it to later in September. That's the latest date that BMW will do a European Delivery unless you ask and they agree. There is a small chance that Germany could open up in September.
> 
> The way I see it, the only reasonable way to get to Germany would be to do a 14 day quarantine in the UK or Ireland. Most people don't have any kind of German residence pass or essential duties or are going to a US military base, three ways to get in. Croatia is a possibility because they let Americans in. I haven't researched if the Croatia-Slovenia border is open but Slovenia is Schengen. I also haven't researched the Gibraltar-Spain border. Spain is Schengen and Gibraltar has only customs, not immigration, for UK-Gibraltar flights. I also wonder if Americans can get into Morocco then to Gibraltar?


We're in the middle of a home renovation so that's temporarily keeping my mind off not having the car yet. Not sure if we're up for "finding" a way in, although it does look doable. Was curious to see if others were throwing in the towel or staying the course. Would also be interesting to see if BMW changes course or comes out w/ anything new as a result of this.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I'm not sure that even going via a location where one would self-quarantine for 14 days would work per se. 

For example, a lot of restaurants in Ireland won't seat Americans. 

It's a true shame that the program is ending (with such little notice) at this particular time but I have to assume that the pandemic hastened its demise.


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

I am scheduled to pick up my M2C on September 7th, though I had a disappointing development today. United/Lufthansa cancelled our direct non-stop flight into Munich that was to leave on Sept 5th arriving on the 6th. My return flight from Amsterdam is still confirmed, but we will see for how long. I am going to call United, but have little hope on flights that will be confirmed for travel in that time frame.


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

mercury26 said:


> I am scheduled to pick up my M2C on September 7th, though I had a disappointing development today. United/Lufthansa cancelled our direct non-stop flight into Munich that was to leave on Sept 5th arriving on the 6th. My return flight from Amsterdam is still confirmed, but we will see for how long. I am going to call United, but have little hope on flights that will be confirmed for travel in that time frame.


Expect additional international flight cancellations for direct flights. I would plan on routing via hubs for your travel. The US airlines are not seeing the expected post labor day rebound business travel to justify the direct international non-hub flights. Premium business class full fare paying customers and the under belly cargo makes a flight profitable.

BTW, Plant Munich is closed from July 27, 2020 through September 7, 2020 to convert for producing the all-electric BMW i4. Highly unlikely there will be Munich factory tours at all even after the conversion due to the pre-production of the i4.


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

Ibiza said:


> Expect additional international flight cancellations for direct flights. I would plan on routing via hubs for your travel. The US airlines are not seeing the expected post labor day rebound business travel to justify the direct international non-hub flights. Premium business class full fare paying customers and the under belly cargo makes a flight profitable.
> 
> BTW, Plant Munich is closed from July 27, 2020 through September 7, 2020 to convert for producing the all-electric BMW i4. Highly unlikely there will be Munich factory tours at all even after the conversion due to the pre-production of the i4.


Appreciate the insights. I was planning to do my tour on Sept 8th.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

mercury26 said:


> Appreciate the insights. I was planning to do my tour on Sept 8th.


I don't see any deliveries happening then.

See 
*Coronavirus News: August 1 - California First State with 500,000 Cases, Infections Rise in Germany *


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

JSpira said:


> I don't see any deliveries happening then.
> 
> See
> *Coronavirus News: August 1 ***8211; California First State with 500,000 Cases, Infections Rise in Germany *


I agree 110% with you, deliveries will not occur until there is a vaccine or known treatment, as the common flu doesn't have a treatment-- just Tamiflu to shorten the duration of symptoms.

German airports started to offer COVID-19 testing last week, for example the private Munich airport lab contractor cost is $213 per test. Negative test doesn't require a 14 days of quarantine.

A EDer would probably want to be tested in the states prior to traveling to Germany, but there is a shortage of tests in the US and is taking upwards of 7 days for results. It's not like a EDer can be tested daily such as the NBA bubble or MLB every other day.

Way too much downside risk to arrive in Germany, test positive and have a mandatory 14 day quarantine.

Has anyone recently completed a ED since the re-opening of the Welt? With the recent surge of COVID-19 cases in Germany, I hope the future ED'ers have travel insurance when the delivery is cancelled by BMW NA.


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## Shon528 (Oct 3, 2003)

Ibiza said:


> I agree 110% with you, deliveries will not occur until there is a vaccine or known treatment, as the common flu doesn't have a treatment-- just Tamiflu to shorten the duration of symptoms.
> 
> German airports started to offer COVID-19 testing last week, for example the private Munich airport lab contractor cost is $213 per test. Negative test doesn't require a 14 days of quarantine.
> 
> ...


Chances of ED happening seem to be getting worse instead of better. I'M in Mass and the new travel order (effective 8/1) requires a 14 day quarantine or a negative test administered within 72hrs. So nevermind Germany for my ED and the EU's travel ban, our Aruba trip in 2 weeks is on the line. To leave, we have to find a testing facility that has a turnaround time for the results in 1-3 days. And then arranging testing abroad for just before we return. Where's my white flag...


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## dll2k4 (Feb 6, 2010)

dll2k4 said:


> We have a new delivery date confirmed at BMW Welt on 9/25.


Well folks, I am going to pull the plug on ED any day now. To me a PCD + week-long road trip home will be better than nothing.

Best of luck to those who are holding out until the bitter end.


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

mercury26 said:


> I am scheduled to pick up my M2C on September 7th, though I had a disappointing development today. United/Lufthansa cancelled our direct non-stop flight into Munich that was to leave on Sept 5th arriving on the 6th. My return flight from Amsterdam is still confirmed, but we will see for how long. I am going to call United, but have little hope on flights that will be confirmed for travel in that time frame.


I pulled the plug on my ED also. My car is now at port and still planning on taking delivery. My dealer will honor the ED pricing. I am now tracking the car travels across the ocean, once it boards the ship.


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

mercury26 said:


> I pulled the plug on my ED also. My car is now at port and still planning on taking delivery. My dealer will honor the ED pricing. I am now tracking the car travels across the ocean, once it boards the ship.


Honor the ED pricing? Makes it sound like they are doing you a favor.

Some dealers who infrequent sell cars for European Delivery sell it at the European Delivery percentage off base price MSRP. I believe it's 5%. It used to be more. 5% off MSRP is not the best deal possible for a US delivery. Some salesman will sell a European Delivery car for a fixed dollar amount over invoice, which is more than 5% off. In some of those cases, the European Delivery price is a reasonably good price.

Saab European Delivery pricing was really sweet. It could be almost 20% off MSRP (19.6%). Those living in California had a sweeter deal. If they bought it and shipped it back before the end of 2004, there was no sales tax.


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## Ibiza (Jun 15, 2007)

Dave 20T said:


> Honor the ED pricing? Makes it sound like they are doing you a favor.
> 
> Some dealers who infrequent sell cars for European Delivery sell it at the European Delivery percentage off base price MSRP. I believe it's 5%. It used to be more. 5% off MSRP is not the best deal possible for a US delivery. Some salesman will sell a European Delivery car for a fixed dollar amount over invoice, which is more than 5% off. In some of those cases, the European Delivery price is a reasonably good price.
> 
> Saab European Delivery pricing was really sweet. It could be almost 20% off MSRP (19.6%). Those living in California had a sweeter deal. If they bought it and shipped it back before the end of 2004, there was no sales tax.


My last ED price in 2017 was at ED invoice + doc fee of around $500 for a 2018 M4 vert. Not going to miss the BMWFS lease MF ED modifier.

Sorry that ya all are throwing in the white flag, as once Oktoberfest was cancelled earlier this year, I threw in the towel myself.


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## mmax11 (May 20, 2019)

> Expect additional international flight cancellations for direct flights. I would plan on routing via hubs for your travel. The US airlines are not seeing the expected post labor day rebound business travel to justify the direct international non-hub flights. Premium business class full fare paying customers and the under belly cargo makes a flight profitable.


Ibiza, yep, you're right on that one. But you always should understand that some online services and websites raise prices for the tickets, and airline operators have nothing to do with that. I know at least one good, trustful and reliable tickets service I've been using recently ( here: httрs://airbusinessclass.com/popular-destinations/amsterdam ), it has plenty options for adjustment during your searching of ticket process, and it will give you real prices, like you would get them from airline company.


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## Dave 20T (Apr 7, 2013)

I wonder who was the last person in the United States to do European Delivery? Maybe someone in mid-March?


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