# CPO Certification missing body repair history



## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

I purchased a 2006 530xi CPO and 3 months later, had to bring it to a dealer 6 times for steering related issues, they were unable to fix. I finally brought to a different BMW dealer and they told me the entire front of the car was re-painted from door to door including the hood, and the car was most likely in an accident. I checked the CPO checklist the dealer gave me and the section for body repair history was blank. Asked for service records from previous owner, and the car was in a BMW dealer's body shop for body work for 2 weeks. What recourse do I have? Dealer is not responding to me and they said they are investigating but no one has replied. Isn't the CPO certification null and void?


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

lamasheen said:


> I purchased a 2006 530xi CPO and 3 months later, had to bring it to a dealer 6 times for steering related issues, they were unable to fix. I finally brought to a different BMW dealer and they told me the entire front of the car was re-painted from door to door including the hood, and the car was most likely in an accident. I checked the CPO checklist the dealer gave me and the section for body repair history was blank. Asked for service records from previous owner, and the car was in a BMW dealer's body shop for body work for 2 weeks. What recourse do I have? Dealer is not responding to me and they said they are investigating but no one has replied. Isn't the CPO certification null and void?


What dealer are you using??? Good luck
cheers
vern


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## sdbrandon (Mar 18, 2006)

Cars that were in accidents can be CPO'd as long as the damage is considered minor. No frame damage, etc. There is criteria for the inspection somwhere.

However, any repair work should have been disclosed.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

sdbrandon said:


> Cars that were in accidents can be CPO'd as long as the damage is considered minor. No frame damage, etc. /QUOTE]
> Where are you getting your information??
> cheers
> vern


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## sdbrandon (Mar 18, 2006)

vern said:


> sdbrandon said:
> 
> 
> > Cars that were in accidents can be CPO'd as long as the damage is considered minor. No frame damage, etc. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

what difference does that make? Are there policy differences between dealers? Some have to CPO certify the car correctly, others do not? It was VOB in Rockville, MD. Total scam dealer.


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

vern said:


> What dealer are you using??? Good luck
> cheers
> vern


what difference does that make? Are there policy differences between dealers? Some have to CPO certify the car correctly, others do not? It was VOB in Rockville, MD. Total scam dealer.


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

sdbrandon said:


> vern said:
> 
> 
> > It was posted on the fest a long time ago. Something about sheet metal, and how much work can be done before a car can no longer be CPO'd.
> ...


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

sdbrandon said:


> Cars that were in accidents can be CPO'd as long as the damage is considered minor. No frame damage, etc. There is criteria for the inspection somwhere.
> 
> However, any repair work should have been disclosed.


There was frame damage as well. No disclosure. My question is what recourse do I have, not what qualifies, disqualifies a car as CPO? Everyone is mis-reading my question. The dealer did not disclose the accident on the BMW Service record or write it down on the CPO Checklist. This is the dealer forum, no?


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

lamasheen said:


> what difference does that make? Are there policy differences between dealers? Some have to CPO certify the car correctly, others do not? It was VOB in Rockville, MD. Total scam dealer.


It makes a lot of difference!!!! The dealer that I use JMK BMW, "will not CPO a car that was in a accident" to much of a hassel with customers. They wholesale the car out. If you go to CarFax to get a report it will state the complete history of the car, accident included no matter how minor. They don't discribe the damage. there fore you have a diminished value on your car. your dealer should have presented you with a CarFax report if they were any good,oh you did say they were a scam dealer I guess thats why they didn't give you a report.. Good luck
cheers
vern


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

vern said:


> It makes a lot of difference!!!! The dealer that I use JMK BMW, "will not CPO a car that was in a accident" to much of a hassel with customers. They wholesale the car out. If you go to CarFax to get a report it will state the complete history of the car, accident included no matter how minor. They don't discribe the damage. there fore you have a diminished value on your car. your dealer should have presented you with a CarFax report if they were any good,oh you did say they were a scam dealer I guess thats why they didn't give you a report.. Good luck
> cheers
> vern


They did give me a carfax report that was clean - accidents don't have to be reported on carfax. Why are you answering in the dealer forum, are you a dealer? They are a scam dealer b/c they knew there was accident history on the car and not reported to carfax, and did not disclose it on the cpo checklist. My question is about the cpo checklist, nothing else. not carfax, not how other dealers sell their cars.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

lamasheen said:


> They did give me a carfax report that was clean - accidents don't have to be reported on carfax. Why are you answering in the dealer forum, are you a dealer? They are a scam dealer b/c they knew there was accident history on the car and not reported to carfax, and did not disclose it on the cpo checklist. My question is about the cpo checklist, nothing else. not carfax, not how other dealers sell their cars


Your right that accidents don't have to be reported to CarFax but only if the insurance company was not involved or if damage was under $500 and police were not called to the scene. Your even telling us that you had a bent frame. Something is not right besides you getting screwed and the dealer screwing you. No I'm not a dealer. Again good luck it sounds like your realy going to need it. 
cheers
vern


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## vm (Jul 16, 2002)

vern said:


> Your right that accidents don't have to be reported to CarFax but only if the insurance company was not involved or if damage was under $500 and police were not called to the scene.


That is true in some states. There are many states that don't report anything to Carfax. Which ones? That's proprietary carfax information.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

vm said:


> That is true in some states. There are many states that don't report anything to Carfax. Which ones? That's proprietary carfax information.


You learn something new every day
cheers
vern


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## x986 (Oct 27, 2006)

This is a great thread. We are all ignorant about the CPO process and it's true meaning. Did your selling dealer perform the CPO, or did they buy it from another dealer? It was always my understanding that BMW stood behind the "brand" BMW CPO, and that they were ultimately responsible. It has been my understanding that BMW gets paid a fee for every CPO a dealer performs. It sounds to me that both you & BMW have been scammed, and that they should be brought in. Please keep us informed.


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## jerrykdc (May 6, 2003)

*Check with Dept of Consumer Affairs*

They are pretty tough in Montgomery County, Maryland and I cannot imagine that a dealer could get away with not disclosing this.


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

I am a commercial/business litigation attorney in Michigan, but it SOUNDS like you may have the basis for a fraud claim, depending upon a number of facts.

One key question is: When you purchased the vehicle, did you ask whether the car had ever been in an accident? If the answer was no, that is a misrepresentation regarding a presently existing fact and may be actionable as a misrepresentation/fraud/consumer protection lawsuit.

Slightly related question but more subtle, if you did not ask, but assumed the car had not been wrecked because it was a CPO, and you knew the car could not be CPO'd if it had been in an accident, this is arguably a written misrepresentation/fraud on behalf of the dealer and/or BMW NA.

In other words, when you buy a CPO car, BMW NA and the dealer represent to you that the car has not had significant body damage. (Isn't this in writing somewhere, in the CPO brochure, on their website, etc etc?)

Now trust me, you don't want to sue unless you absolutely have to, lawsuits are expensive and a real pain.

Next question, what are your damages? Not a total loss, but perhaps diminished value.

You might be able to argue recission (i.e. unwind the deal, give the car back and get a refund of your money).

Selling dealer might claim they didn't know, but that won't fly, because it sounds like the second dealer you took the car to found it quickly, and this means it could have (and probably should have) been caught during a through CPO inspection.

Good luck, keep us posted.


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## sdbrandon (Mar 18, 2006)

Don't forget folks, a car deal works both ways.

When you trade in your car, they usually make you sign a form stating odometer accuracy, if the car has been wrecked, etc.

I have always done the same thing when buying a CPO. I make the dealer provide a form that states the car I am buying was not in any accidents, no flood, salvage title, lemon, buy back etc. If the car is clean, they will have no issue doing this.


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## flowbmw (Aug 31, 2006)

There are a lot of things that happen that never make it to the Carfax report. Its an "okay" resource, but not the gospel. A car that has had an accident can still be CPOd, but if it had frame damage, it gets a lot tougher as to the standards. Most dealers won't bother, because they could just auction the car and not have to deal with an unhappy customer or read about themselves in the news or online. My guess is that the previous dealer probably didn't have the complete picture when they took the car in, and its entirely possible that the previous owner misrepresented the car (shock, horror!) when it was traded or turned in off lease. Heck, sometimes BMW even screws up, I know of a car that went through TWO BMW auctions that had been certified TWICE with the wrong engine in the car. Needless to say, BMW ended up having to take it back, but that's just to illustrate that things happen. Getting attorneys involved is a pretty common knee-jerk reaction, which is likely going to be circumvented if the dealership did adequate arbitration paperwork in the finance office, but my guess is that they will want to make things right, A-its the right thing to do, and B-its cheaper in the long run. 

Being polite and reasonable is the best approach, because the moment you get angry, start making threats or start mentioning lawyers, the shields go up and you're going to have a much harder time of getting a happy result. 
Just my .03,

Ed


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

I agree with FlowBMW, trust me, hiring us lawyers is not fun, and I ALWAYS try to resolve things without litigation if possible.

And FlowBMW brings up another good point, it is entirely possible that this could have been an honest mistake, perhaps the person who turned it in didn't disclose the accident/frame damage, and the dealer certified the car and didn't catch the issue.

Maybe they did a great inspection and didn't discover it, or maybe they did a lousy inspection and missed it....

I really hope that the dealer does the right thing and you can resolve this, you bargained for a nice, clean, non-wrecked CPO car and that is what you should have received.


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanks for the replies, I was kind of surprised today to see so many posts. Here are the facts:

- we asked multiple times if the car was in any accidents. Everytime, the answer was an adamant NO. I even have an admittance email from the salesperson apologizing and that he was unaware of any accident record and only looks at carfax. Was very surprised he admitted that on email. Am more than willing to post that on this forum verbatim and give out his name, email and stuff, I am so pissed off. He is stating that if it is not on carfax, there is no accident history on the car, period. WTF??? 
- I have the official CPO certification that was signed by all the dealer managers for the car. There is a section for Body repair history (BMW advertises this form on the CPO website). It is glaringly blank.
- I have the official BMW service record for body repair history from original dealer in Ohio (jake sweeney). Car had $1000+ for labor alone at the body shop and was there for 2 weeks+.
- I spoke to the previous leasee personally and he told me his wife got into an accident in Ohio with it and they took in there to get the damages repaired. He said to call him anytime if I need records, details. 

I've sent 10 emails to VOB and no one wants to reply at all. I am trying to deal with BMW NA but have not been called back as of yet. It has been a very frustrating experience. Strange thing is that I've presented all the facts to everyone and no one is willing to call me back or anything?? WTF??? 

Everything I have is official BMW documentation. WTF? 

What should I do if BMW NA does not call me back? Would making this into a public case and posting the docs on the internet for everyone to see make any difference you think? I am really amazed by BMW's actions in this case. 

The thing is BMW could have had a client with 2 BMW's for life. (I lease a 328i, the 530xi belongs to the wife). I am talking a new BMW every 3 years or so for both of us forever. But after this, you gotta wonder what is going on there. Had they resolved it early, they could have had sold 10 more bimmers. I just don't get it..


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

Oh and another thing, before you go to any BMW dealer - check them out on BBB site, Better Business Bureau. I wish I had checked VOB BMW before I went. Biggest mistake of my life:

http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=Y&compid=19573


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

lamasheen said:


> Oh and another thing, before you go to any BMW dealer - check them out on BBB site, Better Business Bureau. I wish I had checked VOB BMW before I went. Biggest mistake of my life:
> 
> http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=Y&compid=19573


I took your advice and checked out JMK BMW with BBB. They got A+ which is the highest rating you can get. Possible they get their high rating as a result of the way they handle their CPO sales. I wish you the best of luck no matter how you go about getting the right results.Nobody should have to go through what your going through. Again good luck. Keep us informed.
cheers
vern


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

OP, I guess if you don't hear back from all parties involved it could be time to start litigation, trust me a certified letter from your Attorney is going to get someones attention very quickly. Its about the $$ always the $$, you have the right to fight these alleged scammers. GL


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## MrZip (Oct 8, 2006)

The key here is if your BMW is involved in an accident that the repairs be made in a BMW CERTIFIED body shop. The body shop uses factory paint and certifies your vehicle is returned to it's original factory condition. Just because the vehicle is in an accident doesen't mean it can't be brought back up to original condition.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

MrZip said:


> The key here is if your BMW is involved in an accident that the repairs be made in a BMW CERTIFIED body shop. The body shop uses factory paint and certifies your vehicle is returned to it's original factory condition. Just because the vehicle is in an accident doesen't mean it can't be brought back up to original condition.


Then how come when I had my damage repaired at JMK BMW Certified BMW Body Shop and the car was brought back to orignal factory condition i got a $4000 diminished value?
cheers
vern


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## x986 (Oct 27, 2006)

lamasheen said:


> Oh and another thing, before you go to any BMW dealer - check them out on BBB site, Better Business Bureau. I wish I had checked VOB BMW before I went. Biggest mistake of my life:
> 
> http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=Y&compid=19573


Interesting. I had given up checking BBB because I could never find any bad news. I guess, if you are bad enough - - stuff sticks.


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## rodnig1 (Jun 30, 2009)

I have a very similar situation to this, and am meeting with the BMW rep today. 

I bought my car in september of 2007, and it had major repairs done to the left doors, and rear quarter. I just found this out the other day, because there is rust forming in the left rear wheel well!

needless to say, i am not happy, and have already contacted an attorney(i do allot of work for one, so he will take care of me). When i bought the car, i explained that i didnt want one with any work, and asked, while a witness was present, if there was ever any paint work or body work. He said "no" and that they wouldnt even be abel to CPO it if there was any work done!.

I will findout more today


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## Meiac09 (Jan 2, 2006)

Check with Maryland. I am in a similar situation, where BMW did nothing but try to put on a band-aid by offering repaint my car (which had the substandard paint the previous owner had had done at his FORD dealership peeling off). I am now dealing with the state I bought my car in's Attorney General, as well as their Auto Dealers Association. 

There are some states that require disclosure above a certain amount of damage. I would start with walking in on a saturday and asking to speak to the general manager in person. The dealer I was dealing with made me come in when it was deserted and was pretty damn rude.


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## rodnig1 (Jun 30, 2009)

went to the dealer today, and had it confirmed that there has been work on the doors, and the rear quarter.

as to the extent of the work, they cannot give me that info? nobody can find the original work order, but they can find info on teh computer?? weird huh?

Well, it goes something like this: first guy: i can see that there was a claim from "mutual northeast insurance, and then he proceded to explain a little more. Second guy: i can see that there was repairs, but i cant tell what it was, or how much, or anything. We will need to go into the attic storage and find the original work order. Dealer manager: we didnt know anything about this, and ill go look into it right now. I can see where it wasnt claimed on insurance, and its obvious because of the price of it, since it was less than $1000

does anyone know how i would go about finding the original owners name and info????

i think they are the only ones that can shine some light on this matter


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## BWM135 (Mar 11, 2009)

Interesting thread on an interesting topic that comes up pretty frequently. The CPO guidelines are meaningless without dealers following them, and the sad fact is that dealers can and do get away with not disclosing prior damage and relying on the ostrich defense if they are caught. I have several auto wholesalers that are clients, and the truth is that dealers often know more about a car's past before it goes on the lot than they would like you to believe. With the tools they have and the experience of their buyers, there is IMO a 0.0% chance that this dealer didn't know this car had been hit and had received significant repairs.

As far as what should be done and the OP's remedies, that all depends on his leverage to get the dealer to make this right. And that leverage comes from MD law. There are a lot of good points and good info in here, but every state's motor vehicle law is different. IMHO, the OP should get a legal opinion from an attorney licensed to practice in MD and familiar with the relevant statues and common law in these cases, which should cost him somewhere between $0 and $200.



lamasheen said:


> They did give me a carfax report that was clean - accidents don't have to be reported on carfax. Why are you answering in the dealer forum, are you a dealer? They are a scam dealer b/c they knew there was accident history on the car and not reported to carfax, and did not disclose it on the cpo checklist. My question is about the cpo checklist, nothing else. not carfax, not how other dealers sell their cars.


OP, it's time to take a deep breath. Seriously. I know you are hacked off about this, and you should be. But I'm sure you can see the folly of you questioning the credentials of someone trying to help you when you're essentially asking for legal advice in the "Ask-A-Dealer" section of an internet forum.



jerrykdc said:


> They are pretty tough in Montgomery County, Maryland and I cannot imagine that a dealer could get away with not disclosing this.


I might put in a call to the MD Atty General's Office, but I would start with a reasoned conversation to see what the dealer is willing to do, followed by a written demand sent by certified mail, and if that doesn't work look into legal action. Neither the BBB or the threat of trashing the dealer's rep on the internet will do much to motivate the dealer here, a lawsuit is likely to have better results IMO.



flowbmw said:


> There are a lot of things that happen that never make it to the Carfax report. Its an "okay" resource, but not the gospel. A car that has had an accident can still be CPOd, but if it had frame damage, it gets a lot tougher as to the standards. Most dealers won't bother, because they could just auction the car and not have to deal with an unhappy customer or read about themselves in the news or online. My guess is that the previous dealer probably didn't have the complete picture when they took the car in, and its entirely possible that the previous owner misrepresented the car (shock, horror!) when it was traded or turned in off lease. Heck, sometimes BMW even screws up, I know of a car that went through TWO BMW auctions that had been certified TWICE with the wrong engine in the car. Needless to say, BMW ended up having to take it back, but that's just to illustrate that things happen. Getting attorneys involved is a pretty common knee-jerk reaction, which is likely going to be circumvented if the dealership did adequate arbitration paperwork in the finance office, but my guess is that they will want to make things right, A-its the right thing to do, and B-its cheaper in the long run.
> 
> Being polite and reasonable is the best approach, because the moment you get angry, start making threats or start mentioning lawyers, the shields go up and you're going to have a much harder time of getting a happy result.
> Just my .03,
> ...


I agree that being polite and reasoned and resolving things privately is always the way to go, but it sounds like that ship may have sailed.

I disagree with any assertion that Carfax is anything but a complete joke. A clean Carfax is not a guarantee that a car hasn't been wrecked, nor does the company claim as much. It's a shame their marketing seems to have convinced the public otherwise.

This should be required viewing for all the used car shoppers running around saying "Show me the Carfax." When I'm out looking, you might as well show me a blank piece of paper.

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/vehicle_history_reports/main.html

I particularly enjoyed watching their creepy toolbag PR guy stumble through the interview toward the end.



MrZip said:


> The key here is if your BMW is involved in an accident that the repairs be made in a BMW CERTIFIED body shop. The body shop uses factory paint and certifies your vehicle is returned to it's original factory condition. Just because the vehicle is in an accident doesen't mean it can't be brought back up to original condition.


Making sure a shop is certified is an issue for repairs on leased vehicles, but it doesn't affect the inherent loss in value that comes from the fact the a car has been wrecked. To me this is a bigger deal with a CPO car, where you have a buyer that's paying a premium to buy a car that's supposed to be a cut above others that are out there.

Anyway, I hope things work out OP. It sounds like you've drawn a line in the sand with the dealer already, so I expect things may turn a bit ugly. Let us know what you find out when you talk to a lawyer.


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## rodnig1 (Jun 30, 2009)

i cant get the dealer to tell me anything! they keep running around trying to tell me different stories! and the work was done at this dealer!


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## asus389 (May 20, 2009)

Did the car qualify for the "Carfax buyback guarantee"? Carfax has a thing where if a car has been in an accident and they don't know about it, there is some sort of resolution process. Getting BMW to deal with it directly is the best bet, but if that fails you could look to Carfax. Would be interesting to see what they say nonetheless...

Edit, I just read the fine print on the Carfax "buyback" program. The car has to have a branded title (salvage, flood, etc..) that they didn't know about. Unlikely to be helpful in this case. :-/


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## BWM135 (Mar 11, 2009)

Any follow up from the folks affected by this issue? Did any of you all get a legal opinion or get the dealer to own up on the damage and take the car back?

Just wondering....


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## rodnig1 (Jun 30, 2009)

Mine turned out to be allot like the OP, BUT the CPO checklist was actually marked "NONE" in the body repair history section for my car. I was also able to get the actual copy of the Accident report from when my car was in the traffic accident.

These 2 things went a LONG way in getting the dealer to understand the urgency of the situation, and they decided to work with me to get this resolved.

I will update when everything is said and done.


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

whatever happened with this?


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

rodnig1 said:


> Mine turned out to be allot like the OP, BUT the CPO checklist was actually marked "NONE" in the body repair history section for my car. I was also able to get the actual copy of the Accident report from when my car was in the traffic accident.
> 
> These 2 things went a LONG way in getting the dealer to understand the urgency of the situation, and they decided to work with me to get this resolved.
> 
> I will update when everything is said and done.


whatever happened with this?


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

lamasheen said:


> whatever happened with this?


What ever happened to yours??

You had a fraud case against VOB if they CPOd it after their own shop did the repairs and those repairs included frame or other repairs 'not permitted by the CPO guidelines'....


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## trance (Mar 28, 2006)

Lamasheen - 

Before I bought my CPO I checked both CarFax and AutoCheck (Experian) for history. Fortunately both showed a clean history.

I have read numerous stories about CarFax being unreliable. Case in point, my wife's 2004 X5 was involved in a fender bender on a freeway off ramp (she was hit from behind). I had her call the police and file a accident report even though it was minor ($800 bumper cover replaced). Needless to say, the accident does NOT show on CarFax, but does show up on AutoCheck.

trance


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## rodnig1 (Jun 30, 2009)

the dealer made it right by me, without needing to proceed with any legal action or anything drastic. they ended up making me an offer of trading it in towards a different vehicle that pretty much matched my car, only a few years newer. so, in the end i ended up with what they presented me with a few years earlier. i was completely fine with this.

this was a move in good faith by the dealer to make things right, as they knew that i had allot more info to present.


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## GoRavens (Jan 8, 2010)

MrZip said:


> The key here is if your BMW is involved in an accident that the repairs be made in a BMW CERTIFIED body shop. The body shop uses factory paint and certifies your vehicle is returned to it's original factory condition. Just because the vehicle is in an accident doesen't mean it can't be brought back up to original condition.


HA, HA. not in all cases. VOB had do repairs my front bumper 3 times from their "Certified" Body Shop. The body shop was a joke. Each time VOB said the car was done... I went to pick it up and then noticed improper repairs and then it went back in. I only had the car a week.... it was from a CPO purchase where they tried 3 times to fix stone chips in the bumper.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

GoRavens said:


> HA, HA. not in all cases. VOB had do repairs my front bumper 3 times from their "Certified" Body Shop. The body shop was a joke. Each time VOB said the car was done... I went to pick it up and then noticed improper repairs and then it went back in. I only had the car a week.... it was from a CPO purchase where they tried 3 times to fix stone chips in the bumper.





> Just because the vehicle is in an accident doesen't mean it can't be brought back up to original condition.


True, but for sure the use of a BMW certified shop has no bearing on the car being bought back to "original condition'

The concept of a "BWM Certified Body Shop" in which 'all repairs are factory perfect' is a friggin' joke!!! Who actually believes that?!?!?

There are MANY repairs done by "BMW Certified Shops" that will (or should) fail the CPO criteria simply because of the damage itself and not the repair quality.

Parts are parts, repairs are repairs..people- usually those without mechanical/technical knowledge- put way to much faith into the labels the manufacturer uses to confuse and convince.

A


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## lamasheen (Mar 14, 2009)

ard said:


> What ever happened to yours??
> 
> You had a fraud case against VOB if they CPOd it after their own shop did the repairs and those repairs included frame or other repairs 'not permitted by the CPO guidelines'....


VOB purchased the car from a BMW auction (how BMW gets rid of their leased cars, damaged or otherwise) for an obviously cheap ass price. (The car was re-painted from a previous accident.) They certified it, documents and all with a clean car fax. Sold it to me as CPO. The repairs were done by the previous leased dealer, which showed front end damage. Local BMW dealer after I purchased it (not VOB) told me it had frame damage and was re-painted. VOB denies everything, refuses to talk to me. Lesson to all: Cars get into accidents that are not reported to Carfax. Check out this report and video. Why would carfax hire such a stupid PR person is beyond me:

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2009/vehicle_history_reports/main.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/01/15/marketplace-carfax.html

BMW re-sells the accident cars to dealers who they know will sell as CPO knowingly and deceptively. Why? Because they make money from it, that's why. They will tolerate the few bad apples that get reported back to them, just a cost of doing business to them. The profits far outweigh the litigation costs for them. They are allowed to hide known accidents, they just have to check Carfax according to the CPO guidelines.

Lessons learned: Don't trust BMW dealers. The cars are great, the dealers are independently owned and operated and they are out to make money just like everyone else. They will screw you if they can.

Research the dealer: 
http://www.dealerrater.com/directory/Maryland/BMW/
http://www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=y&compid=19573

Research the car:
- ask for paint meter readings on the car
- ask for ALL BMW service records from 0 to current miles, including the CPO docs. It's all available.
- if they can't put their statements in writing, tell them to GFY (go F yourself).
- don't buy a used car in Maryland, they have very bad consumer protection policies and avoid VOB at all costs.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Sorry to hear this. I've come to this exact understanding as well. The CPO is good for a warranty and THAT'S IT.

The 'statements in writing' is a powerful concept. Certainly they won't put much in writing- but the buyer should simply assume anything verbal is a lie or half truth... just much safer that way.

Did the auction list the extent of the damage when VOB purchased?

The sad truth, as I am sure you know, is that litigation costs will exceed the value of your loss. And suing them is your only option I am guessing.

Finally, the CPO guidelines require them to do an inspection of the repairs- any repairs to certain critical areas- no matter how perfect or complete- are automatic disqualifications for CPO. Irrespective of the carfax. The problem is proving they knew it, or proving to a court that any competent shop shuld have known...

Thanks for posting- hopefully someone is educated.

A


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