# New Autoweek article on Bangle



## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

rwg said:


> *Why is that? It sounds you are complaining b/c you like to complain. What other engine available in the price range and performance range comes close? Sure, bringing the new technology into the 3 series will be great, but not having it doesn't make the current best in class engine anything less than best in class.
> 
> Have fun in your Audi. I will take an over powered, overweight car with a BMW designed suspension over an overpowered, overweight car with a nice interior any day. As far as I know, they haven't let Bangle loose on the suspension designs or the engine designs.
> 
> Or, I might buy a used, lighter car. So you may have a point about the current trend being bad for the enthusiast. Just not about buying an Audi b/c, even though it's not what you want and still not as good as the competition, it's a better choice b/c you never expected it to be what you wanted. *


actually, focusing just on wagons, audi's kick the BMW's a$$ right now as BMW is focused more on X-type vehicles. look at what i could get in an audi. an a4 avant 3.0, an a6 3.0, an S6 avant, an allroad 2.7t or an allroad 4.2. do you think the 325xiT or 525iT or 540iT compare to the all weather capability of those cars? i think not.

actually, i'm editing this. i don't really have to work too hard to justify my gripes with the marque and the incongruity between the "ultimate driving machine" and its current slew of cars. this month's car and driver is a loud enough clarion call to say that BMW's laurels that it rests on are old. competition is a good thing. further, i have no idea what you drive, but the slowest car i drive to work everyday goes from 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds. the other one in about 4.9 seconds. and then there's the wagon. rather unsatisfying in the company of the other two cars. it is not a reach to strive for a wagon that can accelerate under 7 seconds, let alone 6, with AWD. the X5 is a stupid solution to this issue as far as i am concerned.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

complaining for the sake of complaining would have no basis in the facts, the data, or the literature. subtle difference, but i should add that i back up my words with my buying decisions. i just won't buy another one until these issues are redressed. and i'm not some entry level BMW buyer, either, just grateful to be in a BMW. i think people like me expect more. the initial gloss has gotten a little dull. and these new car designs exacerbate the problems. too much focus on design. if it costs more to have a complex surface on a car, that means less money to put into the suspension, the tranmission and the engine. 

all very interrelated.


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## joema (Aug 28, 2002)

pdz said:


> * i think people like me expect more.
> *


Me to. Regarding exterior design, you might say "less is more", at least according to the German Bauhaus philosophy. It seems Bangle is 180 degrees opposed to this approach. Or as TV's Frasier Crane said: "if less is more, just think how much more that *more* would be".

That seems to characterize Bangle's approach: more superficial, non-functional surface detailing: more facets, more creases, more swoops, curves, and other tacked-on detail. Personally I prefer a somewhat functional, minimalist approach. So did BMW, before the Bangle era.

If BMW maintains the same engineering excellence, at least that part will remain attractive, regardless of what happens to the exterior design. However with a little more design restraint, the exterior portion could remain a net positive, vs something that "doesn't look so bad once you get used to it".

Bangle has said it's necessary to be more flamboyant, to break out of the traditional design approach to appeal to more customers. I think it's possible for design to remain traditional, yet still appeal to lots of people. Audi's designs are a good example of this.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

joema said:


> *Me to. Regarding exterior design, you might say "less is more", at least according to the German Bauhaus philosophy. It seems Bangle is 180 degrees opposed to this approach. Or as TV's Frasier Crane said: "if less is more, just think how much more that *more* would be".
> 
> That seems to characterize Bangle's approach: more superficial, non-functional surface detailing: more facets, more creases, more swoops, curves, and other tacked-on detail. Personally I prefer a somewhat functional, minimalist approach. So did BMW, before the Bangle era.
> 
> ...


and artslinger and i would agree with you. design shouldn't be something you have to warm up to after some time. that's ridiculous and pretentious. if that's the case, let's all make the case that the ferrari enzo is a gorgeous car. and it decidedly is not. it's specifications are gorgeous. but the look is so horrific.


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## rwg (May 10, 2002)

pdz said:


> *actually, focusing just on wagons, audi's kick the BMW's a$$ right now as BMW is focused more on X-type vehicles . . . the X5 is a stupid solution to this issue as far as i am concerned. *


Sorry for perhaps an overly harsh response. I agree with both of the comments I quoted above. Your original post wasn't clear (at least to me) that you were thinking along the lines of wagons, it was about the engines not being worth the styling unless they had something more than they do.

I drove a "normal" car the other day. I think we forget how superior the BMW in-line 6 is when it's a daily driver.


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## pdz (Nov 17, 2002)

rwg said:


> *Sorry for perhaps an overly harsh response. I agree with both of the comments I quoted above. Your original post wasn't clear (at least to me) that you were thinking along the lines of wagons, it was about the engines not being worth the styling unless they had something more than they do.
> 
> I drove a "normal" car the other day. I think we forget how superior the BMW in-line 6 is when it's a daily driver. *


i cannot truly speak for TD, but i bemoan the lack of a sporty wagon. while i have hope eternal for the X3, i just do not know if that's going to happen.

i know it's probably not worth BMW's time to bring over a 330iT, either, but gosh, that sure would be the ticket.

this styling, though. good grief. between the "spyshots" of the upcoming 6 series and the new 5 series, i feel so numb. i must be that minority that bangle makes fun of because i think the all new for 2004 XJ is gorgeous.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2003)

pdz said:


> *i cannot truly speak for TD, but i bemoan the lack of a sporty wagon. while i have hope eternal for the X3, i just do not know if that's going to happen.
> 
> i know it's probably not worth BMW's time to bring over a 330iT, either, but gosh, that sure would be the ticket.
> 
> this styling, though. good grief. between the "spyshots" of the upcoming 6 series and the new 5 series, i feel so numb. i must be that minority that bangle makes fun of because i think the all new for 2004 XJ is gorgeous. *


You definitely know more mechanical specifics than I do, but in broad terms we are almost always in agreement.

The cars Bangle mocks, I, too, tend to find attractive. And the need for a small, fast wagon in BMW's line-up *should* be obvious. But while so many other makes are targeting the high performance wagon niche, BMW chooses to, instead, go for the lemming market and expand the line of SUVs. Sad.

One good thing to come of all of this is that I am now focused on ever older BMWs which are almost all significantly less expensive than any new one.


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

It may be more difficult to develop a pleasing design with a minimalist approach then a more "flamboyant" and detail busy design, which infact may help disguise bad overall design. Anyone who has taken an art appreciation class would know a master artist can say more with one brush stroke then a lesser artist can achieve with many brush strokes. 

BMW will hopefully always maintain its outstanding engines and suspensions... but when I drop 30-40 grand on a car I want the whole package to come together and this includes the interior/exterior design.

What is the first thing you notice about your car every morning?... the exterior design of the car.


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