# How many cars are in this group?



## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm starting to shop around for a new car, we are expanding our family and I want something with 4 doors again. I'm getting severely depressed as I'm starting to realize how few cars are in the group I'm looking for:

- 4 doors
- at least 6 cylinders
- rear wheel drive
- manual transmission

My 330 is an 04 so I'd like it to be between 05 - 10' or maybe even 06 - 10'.

Obviously there's another 3 which is starting to look like the best option.

There's the Infiniti G which is a nice car, but I just don't care at all for the sedan design.

What the hell else exists in this group??????


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## Llarry (May 17, 2002)

Coconutpete said:


> I'm starting to shop around for a new car, we are expanding our family and I want something with 4 doors again. I'm getting severely depressed as I'm starting to realize how few cars are in the group I'm looking for:
> 
> - 4 doors
> - at least 6 cylinders
> ...


Clearly you have drunk the BMW Kool-Aid!  Just like the rest of us...


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm eyeballing a couple of 2006 330i's. Little more power than the 328 and not the price tag and HPFP headache of the 335i. Is it really that I have drank the kool-aid or are there no other cars in this category?


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Cadillac CTS
Pontiac G8
Jaguar XF is gorgeous but unfortunately auto only
Lexus IS250 - barf


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

Doesn't Mercedes C300 come with manual transmission as standard? At least it does in Canada. Or you can consider the 5 series. 

If you are willing to sacrifice one of the criteria, here's my suggestion:

If you sacrifice rear wheel drive, you can get an Audi A4. 
If you sacrifice manual transmission, you can get Genesis sedan, which I think is a very fine car.


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## Hu99 (Aug 29, 2010)

Chris90 said:


> Cadillac CTS
> Pontiac G8
> Jaguar XF is gorgeous but unfortunately auto only
> Lexus IS250 - barf


Cadillac CTS is nothing more than a Chevrolet Malibu unless you want to drop $70,000 on the CTS-V.
Pontiac G8 is no longer available because Pontiac is dead.
The Jaguar XF is too f___ing expensive!
Lexus IS250? Meh.


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

Hu99 said:


> The Jaguar XF is too f___ing expensive!
> .


Jag XF comes fully loaded. The only options are audio system upgrade, wheel upgrade and radar cruise control. XF was one of the top 5 cars I was considering last summer, and the deal was a killer. Even before I started talking to the sales lady, she took off $5000 and finance rate was 0% (not a demo model or dealer lot cars)... And the price was further negotiable. :yikes:


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## pilotman (Feb 2, 2006)

Infiniti G37 as you mentioned, is by far the most reliable of the group. You can weld the hood shut on that for 120k miles.

I can get you employee discount if you want, it is already thousands cheaper then comparable BMW to begin with.

I still give the slight edge to BMW on refinement/style, but seriously you can get a G37 with 330bhp for about the same price as a 328 with 230bhp.


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## TRWham (Aug 21, 2004)

mstrq said:


> ...
> 
> If you sacrifice rear wheel drive, you can get an Audi A4. ...


Or expand the criteria to include AWD, but the A4 is 4 cylinder only now, right? The A6 has a 6 available I think.


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

TRWham said:


> Or expand the criteria to include AWD, but the A4 is 4 cylinder only now, right? The A6 has a 6 available I think.


I don't think A6's come with manual transmission. Maybe I'm wrong though. Even if OP includes AWD in the criteria, the choice doesn't expand any further than a couple of Acura cars.


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## superbreadninja (Jan 3, 2011)

Subaru? if you get the H6 engines they are 6 cylinders.


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

mstrq said:


> Doesn't Mercedes C300 come with manual transmission as standard? At least it does in Canada. Or you can consider the 5 series.
> 
> If you are willing to sacrifice one of the criteria, here's my suggestion:
> 
> ...


Yes, The C300 does come with a manual, but the C350 is Auto only.


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

Manual transmission: Non-negotiable
Rear wheel drive: I really prefer RWD over AWD, but I'd change my mind for the right car.
6 Cylinder: non-negotiable

BMW 3 - obviously always an option
Infiniti G - OK... the more I look at this, it's actually growing on me. It's got several features I like - short throw on the shifter and no giant console you are forced to rest your arm on. This is actually a turnoff on the e90's.

Mercedes C - Does it really come w/ a manual? I'll have to research.

Cadillac CTS: As much as I appreciate what Cadillac has done to revamp themselves I just flat out refuse to drive one.

Pontiac G8: Hesitant to buy a dead brand car.

Lexus IS250: I remember writing this off mentally, I'll have to go find out why, HP maybe?
EDIT: 204HP!!! Are you friggin kidding me!!! Yep! That's why I wrote it off.

Jaguar XF: Even if I was budgeting that high - it's auto Only.
Genesis: Auto Only
Audi: They are AWD which is not really what I'm looking for, plus this is going to be a car I'm keeping for a long time and I wouldn't want to repair an Audi out of warrany.


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

OH my god... 2011 Infiniti G37 6MT w/ LSD and 328HP, 269 ft-lbs of torque, NAV, leather, yadda yadda, yadda for $40K :bow:


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

G cars are very narrow. I barely fit my hand down between door panel and seat to adjust the seating position when the door is closed. And the car rides harsher than 3 series from a passenger point of view, and the car seems really jerky at low speeds.(especially when launching the car) Might be a difficult car to drive smoothly for passengers. Make sure you are comfy with these.


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## 6 Brit (Jan 19, 2009)

mstrq said:


> G cars are very narrow. I barely fit my hand down between door panel and seat to adjust the seating position when the door is closed. And the car rides harsher than 3 series from a passenger point of view, and the car seems really jerky at low speeds.(especially when launching the car) Might be a difficult car to drive smoothly for passengers. Make sure you are comfy with these.


+1...not a fan of Nissan's :dunno:

esp. if you are used to a BMW's fit and finish, it will surely feel "cheapy" to you


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

6 Brit said:


> +1...not a fan of Nissan's :dunno:
> 
> esp. if you are used to a BMW's fit and finish, it will surely feel "cheapy" to you


I used to feel exactly the same but with what I've been seeing lately I could definitely get used to the Infiniti/Nissan Interior.


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## Tangent (Jan 18, 2004)

Hu99 said:


> Cadillac CTS is nothing more than a Chevrolet Malibu unless you want to drop $70,000 on the CTS-V.
> ....


 Unless you're only referring to them both being GM products, they're completely different. The first generation CTS used the RWD Sigma platform was initially developed by Holden and ended up being used exclusively by Cadillac for the CTS, SRX, and STS. The current generation CTS uses the (still RWD) Sigma II which is exclusive to the CTS and CTS-V. The Malibu uses the FWD Epsilon platform which it shares with several FWD models like the Opel Vectra, Saab 9-3, and Pontiac G6.


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## 6 Brit (Jan 19, 2009)

Tangent said:


> Unless you're only referring to them both being GM products, they're completely different. The first generation CTS used the RWD Sigma platform was initially developed by Holden and ended up being used exclusively by Cadillac for the CTS, SRX, and STS. The current generation CTS uses the (still RWD) Sigma II which is exclusive to the CTS and CTS-V. The Malibu uses the FWD Epsilon platform which it shares with several FWD models like the Opel Vectra, Saab 9-3, and Pontiac G6.


:thumbup:


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## PhillyNate (Jul 27, 2008)

I've heard if it's not available already that the base Porsche Panamera will be available with a manual shortly and hence satisfying all of your requirements.


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## 1985mb (Apr 2, 2008)

There aren't too many cars to add to what's already been mentioned. There used to be the Lexus IS300, the Jag S-type, the prev-gen W203 MB C350 Sport (which was produced til '06-07 so might fit your bill) 

Going to AWD adds a couple Acuras, the Audi S4 3.0T (if you buy a CPO 2010, it's warrantied til 2016 or late 2015), the Volvo S60R, the old Jag X-type...that's probably it.


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

6 Brit said:


> +1...not a fan of Nissan's :dunno:
> 
> esp. if you are used to a BMW's fit and finish, it will surely feel "cheapy" to you


I think G cars have better interior fit and finish than current 3 series. There are less gaps, and wood and plastic trims are tightly bolted. And the buttons have nice feel and work with precision as well. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't been in a G for more than a year, but that's how I remember from being driven around in that car. But I gotta give it to BMW for ergonomic placements of buttons. In Infiniti they are all over the place.


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

Funny story: After my Jeep was totaled by a sh!tfaced idiot who couldn't stand up straight as I tried asking him what he hell he just did, I was on the hunt for an IS300. I could never find one w/ a manual and that's how I ended up w/ my first e46.

I think I'm going to go test drive a G37.

Nothing against the CTS, but unless you buy the CTS-V they are just so booooooring looking.

Thanks for the suggestion about the Panamera, I guess I should have specified a budget haha. That might be a tad on the high end. I'd rather pay of my house.


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

mstrq said:


> G cars are very narrow. I barely fit my hand down between door panel and seat to adjust the seating position when the door is closed. And the car rides harsher than 3 series from a passenger point of view, and the car seems really jerky at low speeds.(especially when launching the car) Might be a difficult car to drive smoothly for passengers. Make sure you are comfy with these.


I've found some of the same issues with the G. It sort of tries to hard to be a BMW, but ends up feeling a bit too boy racer. It's loud, the power delivery is unrefined, and it just doesn't have that predictability that the BMW has.


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## 6 Brit (Jan 19, 2009)

mstrq said:


> I think G cars have better interior fit and finish than current 3 series. There are less gaps, and wood and plastic trims are tightly bolted. And the buttons have nice feel and work with precision as well. Maybe I'm wrong since I haven't been in a G for more than a year, but that's how I remember from being driven around in that car. But I gotta give it to BMW for ergonomic placements of buttons. In Infiniti they are all over the place.


you have never taken a dash apart in one have you? :rofl:

ohhh man oh man, I have seen them torn down as well as BMW's (used to work in a body shop and my buddy still does) so I see what is underneath. Neither one are great but the BMW just makes more sense. Put together better underneath.


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

6 Brit said:


> you have never taken a dash apart in one have you? :rofl:
> 
> ohhh man oh man, I have seen them torn down as well as BMW's (used to work in a body shop and my buddy still does) so I see what is underneath. Neither one are great but the BMW just makes more sense. Put together better underneath.


Haha. Never done that. I'm no mechanic or car expert at all. But I was referring to what is seen on the surface though. In my E93, I can push the wood trim in by almost 1/2 near center air vents...


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## mstrq (Jun 28, 2010)

Coconutpete said:


> Nothing against the CTS, but unless you buy the CTS-V they are just so booooooring looking.
> 
> .


Looks are just the least of the concern for CTS. The seats are the most uncomfortable I've ever sat on. The leather is so hard and it pushes out your body instead of sinking it in.


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

If I pull the trigger on an 08 or 09 then the last thing I'm going to be doing is taking the [email protected] thing apart for a good long while.

Priorities have shifted in the last year.... I built the deck but I still need to build a set of stairs, the patio off the stairs, redo the kitchen, a bathroom, seal the driveway, yadda, yadda, yadda.....


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Range Rover Evoque??? Its the new smaller car from Land Rover. Probably not the sort of car you are looking for. Its AWD and can be had with a MT in Europe. Dunno if it will get a manual or a V6 for the US market.



I'm sure you don't want one, but double cab pickups can be had with 6 or more cylinders and manual transmissions. For example you can get a Dodge Ram 2500 mega cab with a 6.7L Cummins Diesel and 6 speed manual transmission. 650 lb-ft of torque at 1,500 rpm. 4 doors and RWD.


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah... looking for a car, not a truck / SUV 

I used to flip back and forth between car and SUV, but we already have one small SUV which my wife drives most of the time.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

Coconutpete said:


> Mercedes C - Does it really come w/ a manual? I'll have to research.


I see a few C230 Sports ('06-'07) that were 6 cylinders and have manual transmissions.

EDIT: if you think the IS250 is too slow, these won't work for you either.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> Range Rover Evoque???


I found the US press release. At launch time, the US Evoque is AT and turbo 4-cylinder only. Now that I've read more, I can say it is not something you are looking for.

I've attached a few photos. The coupe looks like it has terrible visibility.

A few excerpts from the longest press release I've ever seen.


> - Permanent all-wheel drive combined with turbocharged four-cylinder engine and a six-speed auto transmission deliver performance and minimized fuel consumption
> 
> - All-new 240bhp* 2.0-liter Si4 turbocharged engine combining six-cylinder refinement and performance with four-cylinder fuel economy
> 
> ...


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## Coconutpete (Feb 7, 2008)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> A few excerpts from the longest press release I've ever seen.


WOW! Now we know what car KIA bought to dissect when they were building the Soul or Sol or whatever it's called.


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