# Any hear of the new CENTRALIZED SYNCOMESH TRANNY set to replace SMG II?



## JBsZ06 (Oct 8, 2003)

I am looking for information on the ZSG tranny set to replace the SMGII ..

Rumor has it in this months "CAR " magazine..that the M2 will be a 240hp inline four with ZSG..

ZSG is a single clutch shift technology that has centralized syncomesh (sp) for rivaling the Porsche DSG dual clutch unit about to come out.
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Just figured this site as a great resource might have some inside scoop on this.

Thanks..(moderators if this is in the wrong section please relocate to appropriate section) 

JB


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## JBsZ06 (Oct 8, 2003)

The new ZSG could be an offshoot of this? What do you think?

The mechanism does not use electronics, hydraulics, clutches or friction drives of any kind The system is passive, self contained and brilliant in its simplicity..

In fact, it only applies to the gear selection mechanism so the majority of a gearbox can remain unchanged.

This transmission will work just like any ordinary gearbox except with no need to use the clutch between ratios. The only difference is it uses fewer components, it will be cheaper to build and last longer. Also driven by a processor it will work as an automatic.

Zeroshift has the potential to revolutionise automotive transmissions to the point where putting our necks on the line here, its reasonable to expect that in 10 years every car will be built with a gearbox operating on the zeroshift principle.

---------------------------------

Does this sound too good to be true? Since they say its cheaper to produce than the standard tranny? How much does a new tranny cost in the Z? Add in a core savings and its probably not big bucks?

What do you think? A few grand?

Here's the link: http://www.pistonheadstv.com/images/ZeroShift_RacecarEng_0204.pdf


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## JBsZ06 (Oct 8, 2003)

More information to browse:

NEW GEARBOX SHIFTS IN ZERO MILLISECONDS AND BLITZES ROAD TEST

ZeroShift Ltd, a UK company, has successfully road tested its radical new shift technology.

The time of a gearshift is the period during which drive is interrupted while the next ratio is selected. In the case of ZeroShift(TM), that period is ZERO time. A ZeroShift(TM) gearbox (patents pending) provides an uninterrupted shift, the fastest possible gearshift.

By way of comparison, the dual clutch transmission (DCT) recently released in the Audi TT V6 is no quicker than a good driver using a conventional manual. The same can be said of the BMW SMG, the F1 system in the Ferrari 360 and the Aston Martin Vanquish automated manual transmission (AMT). A car fitted with ZeroShift will convincingly out-accelerate any otherwise identical vehicle - smoothly.

Even current F1 cars take around 60 milliseconds (0.06 secs) for a complete shift sequence that involves an (audible) engine power cut. F1 fans will appreciate that this is a long time to lose on every shift.

ZeroShift Ltd is so confident of the new technology (recently road tested in a TVR Cerbera 4.5) that the company plans to fit a standard 225bhp Audi TT with the system and race it against the new TT V6 DSG (DCT) in front of the media to prove the point. The automotive media has praised the Audi DSG gearbox as the future of transmissions. Watch this space!

ZeroShift represents a radically different engineering approach. Where AMT adds weight and complexity around the gearbox and DCT adds weight and complexity inside the gearbox, ZeroShift addresses the switching of ratios more fundamentally. In simple terms, ZeroShift components replace synchromesh components. AMT and DCT transmissions are merely complex ways of operating 80-year-old synchromesh.

ZeroShift Technical Director Bill Martin says: `AMT and DCT are just faster steam trains - as a consequence, they are heavier and more expensive to make and maintain.`

On the road, according to the ZeroShift team, the performance is `amazing`. ZeroShift spokesman Phil James describes it: `What you get is acceleration, acceleration, acceleration through the gears. That`s instead of acceleration, declutch, yaw, acceleration, declutch... in a conventional manual; or acceleration, slur, acceleration... in an auto.

`The difference in performance and feel is very noticeable with the TVR Cerbera where, with the conventional gearbox, the violent acceleration through the low gears really emphasises the yaw of de-clutching between first and second gear accelerations. With ZeroShift, the car just keeps accelerating - it`s pretty addictive! You lose no momentum or sense of thrust through the gear-changes. Two ZeroShift gear-changes between standstill and 100mph are worth more 
than a second.`

A standard Cerbera 4.5 has been timed at 8.4 secs to 100mph, so McLaren F1 drivers should not be complacent if they see a chrome ZeroShift badge on the car beside them at the lights. To wring the best 0-100 time from the F1 needs deft gear-changing skills - the ZeroShift driver will have optimum shifts, every shift. This will be the badge to look out for!

ZeroShift is about much more than going faster, though. The performance advantage is a factor of the efficiency of the system that provides other benefits too, including emissions reduction, lower fuel consumption and smoothness. Bill Martin: `Emissions and fuel consumption are spiked by conventional gear-changes because the off-then-on action on the accelerator pedal momentarily enriches the fuel mix. ZeroShift does not need the off-and-on gas action. The smoothness issue is one of the ZeroShift system`s strongest suits. Shifts are imperceptible, other than noticing change in engine note.`

ZeroShift is able to modify existing transmissions for rapid introduction to the market. But a gearbox developed to fully exploit the ZeroShift system would be considerably smaller and lighter than whatever gearbox it is designed to replace.

Unlike other `revolutionary` gearbox concepts, a ZeroShift transmission is based on a donor manual gearbox, albeit with extensive internal modifications. No changes to the clutch or bell housing are required. As a consequence, a ZeroShift gearbox can fit straight into a car. Furthermore, ZeroShift can be operated by a conventional stick shift, by column-mounted paddles, or it can be fully automated to work like a conventional automatic. The development car is using its standard H-gate stick shift.

Phil James: `ZeroShift is smooth for luxury cars, fast for supercars (including motorsport) and economical for minis. With the same engineering element at its core, only the shift strategy changes to suit the application. We think you will see a variety of new supercars offered with ZeroShift from as early as 2005.`

[ENDS]

Media enquiries: 
HOT Ltd, 7 Darin Court, Crownhill Business Park, Milton 
Keynes MK8 0AD 
E: [email protected] 
T: +44 1908 260740 
F: +44 1908 260749

Contact details: 
Phil James, ZeroShift Ltd, The Coplan Building, Michigan 
Drive, Tongwell, Milton Keynes MK15 8HQ 
E: [email protected] 
T: +44 7831 276832 
W: www.ZeroShift.com


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Sorry, if it truely works, SOME F1 team would be using it. As everything they do is confidential, keeping another secret would be no problem. I remember Ferrari bring out the paddle shift setup. That year they either won or broke. To much money and too close of performance to let a thing like this go by.

I don't see how they can acheive this so called smooth delivery of torque, with the fact that the engine in one gear at a given road speed is a lot different than the engine speed at the same road speed in the next gear.

But until they let people see how it works, it will be hard for them to "prove" it. 

I wish them luck, I would like to see something new come out.


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## F1Crazy (Dec 11, 2002)

March issue of Automobile magazine mentions ZSG (Zentral Synchron Getriebe), that unlike Audi's DSG, uses only one clutch driving permanently engaged central input shaft.


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## Desertnate (Mar 11, 2002)

How close is this idea to the CVTs (Continiously Variable Transmission) that some auto makers tried? 

To me it sounds like a very similar goal, only the CVT uses gearing and funk belts/chains and this one uses clutches.


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## Akakubi (Dec 21, 2001)

Desertnate said:


> How close is this idea to the CVTs (Continiously Variable Transmission) that some auto makers tried?
> 
> To me it sounds like a very similar goal, only the CVT uses gearing and funk belts/chains and this one uses clutches.


CVT's cannot handle a lot of torque. Plus as i understood their design, they act as a continiuos shift (you can have as many gears as you want), while the Zeroshift follows the standard 5-6 speed shifting layouts thus being able to handle any torque loads. Probably can add more.... :dunno:


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

I saw the same reference in Automobile (part of a small piece on the V-series minivans, IIRC). What I don't get about these press releases is how it can be such a radical departure from MT/SMG/DSG/etc. yet only requires modification of a standard MT box. Sounds completely contradictory.

This is going to be either mind-blowing or completely smoke-blowing.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

F1Crazy said:


> March issue of Automobile magazine mentions ZSG (Zentral Synchron Getriebe), that unlike Audi's DSG, uses only one clutch driving permanently engaged central input shaft.


Normal transmission have a permanently engaged input shaft.

The gears are pressed or welding to the input shaft. The output shaft has gear permanently meshed to the input shaft, but they free wheel on the output shaft, until you engage them, by sliding a collar with teeth to engage the gear to the shaft itself.

Until more details come out, I will remain sceptical. I would be neat if someone made such a radical increae tothe technology.

But I stand by my contention that if it works as well as they say, some F1 team would be using it.


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## document (May 22, 2003)

Pinecone said:


> But I stand by my contention that if it works as well as they say, some F1 team would be using it.


This logic only makes sense if we assume that some F1 team has thought of the zeroshift method, or been given the chance to license it. Sounds like zeroshift just now has their first proof of concept running. If it's as revolutionary as they say, they're better off protecting their intellectual property first and getting their business plan settled.

I am skeptical, too, though. Particularly about how the system reacts to having to instantly slow down the huge rotational inertia of the engine on every upshift and speed it up on every down shift. How it can do that and not upset the contact patch (ie, spin or drag the tires) I don't really get.

Well, if what they say is true, we'll all know how it's done and how it works, eventually. Thanks for the press release and link to the pdf, btw.


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

The total absence of even a simple technical explaination makes me very skeptical. If they are this far along in development then surely the idea is patented or a patent is pending - so they wouldn't be keeping the info quiet for the purpose of protecting their intellectual property. If it's working as well as they say, and they developed it, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to offer a clearer explaination IMHO (especially if it's as simple as they claim). 

The only plausable explaination I can guess up is that someone like BMWAG or the like has some sort of silly contract with them that gave them a gag order so they can be the ones to announce this to the automotive world and get all the glory (the works of a good marketing dept.?). :dunno:

As it stands I'll believe it when I see it... 

--SONET


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## RoyE46 (Jan 31, 2004)

It's very interesting to me that BMW seems to have suspended creating new applications with their existing SMG boxes when it requires only new software. The 530, for example, is available with SMG, which would be an established motor/tranny/ECU software combo. Yet the 545, which could be served by SMG II with new software, has no SMG option. Similarly, the 330i Performance Package (ZHP), which could be served by the SSG (or SMG, same thing) with new software, has no SMG option.

For some time I thought this was a global conspiracy to prevent me from buying a new car. The SMG was scheduled to be available on the ZHP in March 04 production, and I barely avoided being institutionalized when that fell through.   :bawling:   

Could it be that this long-awaited trivial software work was bagged because the SMG III arrives in MY 05, and they didn't want to produce the ZHP SMG for less than a year?

I can hope, at least.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

document said:


> This logic only makes sense if we assume that some F1 team has thought of the zeroshift method, or been given the chance to license it. Sounds like zeroshift just now has their first proof of concept running. If it's as revolutionary as they say, they're better off protecting their intellectual property first and getting their business plan settled.
> 
> I am skeptical, too, though. Particularly about how the system reacts to having to instantly slow down the huge rotational inertia of the engine on every upshift and speed it up on every down shift. How it can do that and not upset the contact patch (ie, spin or drag the tires) I don't really get.
> 
> Well, if what they say is true, we'll all know how it's done and how it works, eventually. Thanks for the press release and link to the pdf, btw.


But considering the resources of say Ferrari, McLaren or Willliams, they could enter an agrement to pay lots of money, if it works, and keep it secret. Best of both worlds.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

SONET said:


> The total absence of even a simple technical explaination makes me very skeptical. If they are this far along in development then surely the idea is patented or a patent is pending - so they wouldn't be keeping the info quiet for the purpose of protecting their intellectual property. If it's working as well as they say, and they developed it, then there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to offer a clearer explaination IMHO (especially if it's as simple as they claim).
> 
> The only plausable explaination I can guess up is that someone like BMWAG or the like has some sort of silly contract with them that gave them a gag order so they can be the ones to announce this to the automotive world and get all the glory (the works of a good marketing dept.?). :dunno:
> 
> ...


They do have a point, unless you can mount a court case to protect your patent, you may lose. So secrecy can be better. Until they get somebody with big pockets on board. Then they llicense the patent to them, and let them defend it. You just get money.


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## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

RoyE46 said:


> It's very interesting to me that BMW seems to have suspended creating new applications with their existing SMG boxes when it requires only new software. The 530, for example, is available with SMG, which would be an established motor/tranny/ECU software combo. Yet the 545, which could be served by SMG II with new software, has no SMG option. Similarly, the 330i Performance Package (ZHP), which could be served by the SSG (or SMG, same thing) with new software, has no SMG option.
> 
> For some time I thought this was a global conspiracy to prevent me from buying a new car. The SMG was scheduled to be available on the ZHP in March 04 production, and I barely avoided being institutionalized when that fell through.   :bawling:
> 
> ...


AFAIK the M5 will have SMG II or SMG III.

The ZHP doesn't have SSG/SMG, IMO, because the system is NOT a sporty system. Plus it is not a BMW system, it is Magnetti Marelli system licensed from Italy.


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## armstd (Jan 2, 2004)

And don't forget the 645i.

-Daver


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