# Is the 335D destined to become a classic?



## boooomer (Apr 23, 2010)

In next few years we will be seeing a lot of new diesel cars. And as a result, diesels will gain wider acceptance in the US. 
I think folks will take a fresh look at the 335D. It is a unique car with a very limited distribution in the US. Most new diesels will be tuned more for economy at the expense of performance leaving the 335D even more unique especially to car enthusiasts.

So do you think it has the potential to become a classic?


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## AutoUnion (Apr 11, 2005)

Doubtful. Its too unknown. If BMW brings another diesel 3, no chance


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## TopDog5450 (Feb 11, 2011)

In another 20 years it will be a classic according to my crystal ball.


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## Flyingman (Sep 13, 2009)

20 years by definition it will be a "Classic".

If they don't offer anything in that power range it will certainly be unique.

It's a classic to me regardless.:thumbup:


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Classic as in '64 mustang classic? Umm not a chance.
Classic as in 1983 GTI classic? Maybe. I can see these cars being popular with enthusiasts over the long haul especially once work-arounds and ad-blue system deletes become available.


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## UncleJ (May 7, 2006)

I doubt it, but you never know. I mean who would have ever thought back in the day that a '57 Chevy ragtop would be a classic?:angel:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Seems usually it is body styles that make for classics. For example someone mentioned the 64.5 Mustang and if you really get down to it all of the body styles of that year Mustang and all of the engine sizes are considered classics. Now a 1964.5 K-code fastback(if they even made them for the first year, was the high output V8 option) would be far more valuble than say a T-code coupe(straight 6 engine). So I highly doubt the generation of 3-series that contained the 335d within the states will be considered classics. Now I could easily see some cult followings but that is not always a sign of much at all beyond perhaps a support network for car problems.


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## boooomer (Apr 23, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> Seems usually it is body styles that make for classics. For example someone mentioned the 64.5 Mustang and if you really get down to it all of the body styles of that year Mustang and all of the engine sizes are considered classics. Now a 1964.5 K-code fastback(if they even made them for the first year, was the high output V8 option) would be far more valuble than say a T-code coupe(straight 6 engine). So I highly doubt the generation of 3-series that contained the 335d within the states will be considered classics. Now I could easily see some cult followings but that is not always a sign of much at all beyond perhaps a support network for car problems.


Perhaps "Classic" was the wrong term. Too many 3ers to be a Classic. But within that realm - given the D's mix of performance, efficiency, (hopefully reliability) and limited production, I believe it will have a very strong and loyal following. While the next generation of BMW diesels will improve on efficiency, I don't think we'll see another car with this unique mix of performance and efficiency.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

I think you will see cars with better performance and economy. Heck take our 335d cars and just put an 8 speed transmission in and geared for the motor and that in itself will improve both.


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## boooomer (Apr 23, 2010)

Snipe656 said:


> I think you will see cars with better performance and economy. Heck take our 335d cars and just put an 8 speed transmission in and geared for the motor and that in itself will improve both.


I agree, if they were to drop the 3liter six in the new model. But with CAFE limits, the success of the VAG TDIs, & the improved economy of the new 328, my guess is that we'll see a high output 4 cylinder diesel in the new 3 series -say a 320D. It will probably have spectacular fuel economy but with a corresponding sacrifice of torque. And because of the reduced torque & power band the new 8 speed transmission will be a perfect match and improve efficiency even more. And knowing BMW, it will be a great car. It will compete very effectively with the VW TDIs. Same or even better economy but with way more performance.

But I don't think we'll see 425 ft-lbs again in a 3 series. And I think that's what makes our 335Ds so special.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Guess I am just strange because I would never cross shop a FWD economy minded diesel sedan with a RWD driver experienced orientated sedan. I suppose if BMW was stupid enough to make the offering with around the same power as the VW then I'd question why pay a premium for the BMW logo and ride. 

I see no reason why emissions are going to prevent a 6 cylinder high output diesel from being an option. The bigger question is if there is enough market demand to justify the car. They seemed to think Americans would prefer the 335 over a 320 in their last attempt. But was that attempt near the success they wanted or did they discover no Americans would have bought more of a slightly cheaper car with greater efficiency. Or did they discover something completely different than that.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

A 320d blows away the VW diesels in performance (2 sec faster in 0-100kmh, higher top speed) and has comparable fuel economy.

The Euro VI compliant 330d with the 8 spd auto can do 0-100kmh in 5.6 sec and 46 mpUSg in the ECE combined cycle (compare to the 320d and Passat that are both rated at 50 mpUSg). 

I'm looking forward to BMW's decision on bringing their next 3er d to this side of the pond :thumbup:


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

d geek said:


> A 320d blows away the VW diesels in performance (2 sec faster in 0-100kmh, higher top speed) and has comparable fuel economy.
> 
> The Euro VI compliant 330d with the 8 spd auto can do 0-100kmh in 5.6 sec and 46 mpUSg in the ECE combined cycle (compare to the 320d and Passat that are both rated at 50 mpUSg).
> 
> I'm looking forward to BMW's decision on bringing their next 3er d to this side of the pond :thumbup:


I still do not understand why someone would even be cross shopping a BMW diesel and a VW TDI cars(maybe SUVs but not the cars). They are going to drive(ride quality, handling, braking, etc) very different and their costs are MANY thousands of dollars apart from one another. The only thing comparable between say the 330d you just mentioned and the VW is they use the same type of fuel and get around the same fuel economy. Guess I am just strange but I do not understand why BMW would even consider the TDI a competitor within the US market. If I were cross shopping them, then I'd get the Passat because chances are it would be a good $20k less and that is a hefty chunk of change to pay for essentially some added performance.

Bottom line though I do not think emissions requirements would prevent a future "335d" that got even better performance and fuel economy than the previous one. I think if anything is going to prevent such a thing from coming to the market it will be what BMW thinks will or will not sell in the numbers they feel make it a viable option.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

The Passat TDI SEL premium lists for $32K. I'd guess that the 320d would be about $6K more. Not $20K.

I've heard that Audi is also expanding their N American diesel lineup. That would be even more comparable price and market segment-wise.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

Base Passat TDI starts off around $26k and base 3-series(328i) starts off around $35k. Next to no one seems to buy a base BMW though and that is why a lot of people on here have $60k+ 335d cars instead of $45k. I'd be very surprised if BMW brought over a diesel 3 series that costs roughly the same cost as their base gasser. So okay maybe it would not be $20k difference but I still for the life of me can not understand why in the world someone would be cross shopping a FWD economy minded car with a RWD driver orientated car.


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## d geek (Nov 26, 2008)

In the UK they show the 320d as about £1K cheaper than the 328i. 

I see your point about the BMW and VW not being natural competitors. The only thing that brings them into competition here is the slim pickins we have for diesel passenger vehicles. I haven't seen anything lately about MB 4 cyl diesels coming over here lately, but that would also up the ante.

With the higher CAFE standards coming into effect soon I'm hoping we will have more options on this side of the pond.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

d geek said:


> I haven't seen anything lately about MB 4 cyl diesels coming over here lately, but that would also up the ante.


I had high hopes for this one but I have a sinking feeling that if it actually makes it here that it is going to be priced higher than I'd want to pay for what you get. I suppose once the Bluetec GLK(?) is here that it will at least better enable one to guess what a Bluetec C might end up costing to get. I am hoping the Audi offerings is going to result in BMW bringing over other diesel offerings. For what ever reason it always seems like Audi is one of the bigger challengers to BMW market appeal over here. What I'd love to be able to pick from come time to buy another sedan(if I need a sedan still at that time) would be from 5-series, E-class, and A6 all with diesel offerings and hopefully the 5 and A6 being performance orientated.


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> Base Passat TDI starts off around $26k and base 3-series(328i) starts off around $35k. Next to no one seems to buy a base BMW though and that is why a lot of people on here have $60k+ 335d cars instead of $45k. I'd be very surprised if BMW brought over a diesel 3 series that costs roughly the same cost as their base gasser. So okay maybe it would not be $20k difference but *I still for the life of me can not understand why in the world someone would be cross shopping a FWD economy minded car with a RWD driver orientated car*.


I didn't cross shop but I bought them both!LOL!
Seriously I loved my D so much and didn't want to put it throught 60~70,000 KM I drive each year so I bought the TDI to split the mileage!
But to my surprise the TDI is a great daily driver delivering 40+ MPG versus the 30 MPG of the D and it's perfect for urban traffic here in Toronto.

Sadly 6 months after I got the TDI my daughter moved back home so I gave her the TDI and got myself a ML350 BlueTec to do double duty with my D!:thumbup::thumbup:

That's how come I now have three oil burners!!!



d geek said:


> In the UK they show the 320d as about £1K cheaper than the 328i.
> 
> I see your point about the BMW and VW not being natural competitors. T*he only thing that brings them into competition here is the slim pickins we have for diesel passenger vehicles. I haven't seen anything lately about MB 4 cyl diesels coming over here lately, but that would also up the ante.*
> 
> With the higher CAFE standards coming into effect soon I'm hoping we will have more options on this side of the pond.


Mercedes just announced that the 2013 GLK will be offered with a 250 (2.1L 4 Cyl) BlueTec here in Canada. It'll have 190 HP/369 Lb. Ft. TQ!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

DC-IT said:


> I didn't cross shop but I bought them both!LOL!
> Seriously I loved my D so much and didn't want to put it throught 60~70,000 KM I drive each year so I bought the TDI to split the mileage!
> But to my surprise the TDI is a great daily driver delivering 40+ MPG versus the 30 MPG of the D and it's perfect for urban traffic here in Toronto.
> 
> ...


Yeah but it is a little different to own multiple cars(each for its own reason) v. trying to decide will I only buy Car A or Car B. I have considered buying a TDI many times since just the fuel savings alone would pay for the car note on one.


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> Yeah but it is a little different to own multiple cars(each for its own reason) v. trying to decide will I only buy Car A or Car B. I have considered buying a TDI many times since just the fuel savings alone would pay for the car note on one.


You're absolutely correct.
If I can only have one car it'll be the 335d.


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