# DEF Fluid Help



## chip4 (May 20, 2003)

Brought my 2011 X5d to the dealer for its first service -10600mi, My SA mentions that the techs were only able to fill 2gal of DEF (4x .5gal) through the no spill port. I dont want to tell them what to do but arent they supposed to use a separate equipment for the drain and refill? I remember seeing the PDF file. 
Could I have used a mere 2gal of DEF fluid in almost 11k miles?
Doesnt our system have a 6gal. capacity?

Can someone with a link to the PDF file post here so I can show the dealer -thanks.


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

I think this post by Tlak has what you want: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=456166&highlight=


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

I believe BMW has changed their DEF service requirements from a flush and fill to just a fill.

Check-out post #19 in this thread:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-for...-oil-change-dealer-keeping-car-overnight.html


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## chip4 (May 20, 2003)

BMW maintenance program states:

DEF drain and refill http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/bmwmaintenanceprogram.aspx

Thanks 62Lincoln -according to that procedure it is approximately 6gal (5.7L active 16L passive). It even states not to reuse the extracted fluid from the vehicle.

I have a feeling they only refilled the active -the passive requires the DEF filler/extractor.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

Yups when go in for service they are supposed to drain DEF and refill it.


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

bimmerdiesel said:


> Yups when go in for service they are supposed to drain DEF and refill it.


(1) Post #19 in the thread I referenced is from a BMW technician, and

(2) When I had it done this Summer on my 2010 35D and questioned the use of only two containers of DEF, the Service Manager said BMW had changed the policy to fill only, not flush and fill.

That said, if it only took 2 gallons, it does sound like they only filled the active tank and skipped the passive tank.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

Penguin said:


> (1) Post #19 in the thread I referenced is from a BMW technician, and
> 
> (2) When I had it done this Summer on my 2010 35D and questioned the use of only two containers of DEF, the Service Manager said BMW had changed the policy to fill only, not flush and fill.
> 
> That said, if it only took 2 gallons, it does sound like they only filled the active tank and skipped the passive tank.


Well this time when I went in for 2nd service abt a week ago, SA mentioned that they have drained it all out and filled it up again. May be I got lucky or my SA didnt have all information. I will have to check my invoice how much they actually used.

He did mention that there is change in policy now (CBS). According to which based on miles I put on my car I will have to go in twice next yr for service. 1 for free oil change after 13k miles and other is for complete car check up (after 7k miles) in which they will change some filters.


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

bimmerdiesel said:


> He did mention that there is change in policy now (CBS). According to which based on miles I put on my car I will have to go in twice next yr for service. 1 for free oil change after 13k miles and other is for complete car check up (after 7k miles) in which they will change some filters.


Yes, I noticed I am now tracking two difference services in the i-drive display, one at 7,000 mi and an oil change at 9,000 mi. I'm guessing that the 7,000 mi one is for a fuel filter change.

And it does seem that the OP's dealer is not very up-to-date on BMW SIB's. I recall seeing an SIB that told the dealers that BMW NA would not reimburse the dealers for the half-gallon DEF bottles if they used them for service... the SIB said the dealers must use only the 2.5 gallon DEF bottles for service purposes.


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

Penguin said:


> Yes, I noticed I am now tracking two difference services in the -drive display, one at 7,000 mi and an oil change at 9,000 mi. I'm guessing that the 7,000 mi one is for a fuel filter change.


Yups thats how it is.


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

I wonder how labor intensive it is to access and change the fuel filter? The filter itself looks to cost about $50. Might be an extra "diesel" operating expense once the free maintenance is over...


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

There is DIY thread on e90 for 330d. If its same location for 335d then from pics it didnt seem very difficult to do. You just need get under car, remove some nuts and bolts. And I have no idea about x5


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

bimmerdiesel said:


> Yups when go in for service they are supposed to drain DEF and refill it.





Penguin said:


> (1) Post #19 in the thread I referenced is from a BMW technician, and
> 
> (2) When I had it done this Summer on my 2010 35D and questioned the use of only two containers of DEF, the Service Manager said BMW had changed the policy to fill only, not flush and fill.
> 
> That said, if it only took 2 gallons, it does sound like they only filled the active tank and skipped the passive tank.





bimmerdiesel said:


> Well this time when I went in for 2nd service abt a week ago, SA mentioned that they have drained it all out and filled it up again. May be I got lucky or my SA didnt have all information. I will have to check my invoice how much they actually used.
> 
> He did mention that there is change in policy now (CBS). According to which based on miles I put on my car I will have to go in twice next yr for service. 1 for free oil change after 13k miles and other is for complete car check up (after 7k miles) in which they will change some filters.


I went through whole thread and it seems they do flush it but not on first service. I went for 2nd service so thats probably why they flushed it. I need to go through links posted by tlak again to know what and when its done.


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## chip4 (May 20, 2003)

I had emailed the documents to my SA -and he mentions that they no longer drain the DEF fluid -they are unwilling to show me their documents saying that BMW requires them to only fill it now. So 2gal is what they put in.

I am on my way there now to discuss this.


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## F32Fleet (Jul 14, 2010)

chip4 said:


> I had emailed the documents to my SA -and he mentions that they no longer drain the DEF fluid -they are unwilling to show me their documents saying that BMW requires them to only fill it now. So 2gal is what they put in.
> 
> I am on my way there now to discuss this.


Why the concern? If it's full..It's full.


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## chip4 (May 20, 2003)

BMWTurboDzl said:


> Why the concern? If it's full..It's full.


I still had to pick up my vehicle.

Anyway I really need to read my own documents -They did change the service bulletin -highlighted in red New
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/b160109g.htm

I ended up calling BMWNA Customer Relations the person I spoke to mentioned she will talk to their advertising dept to look at their "BMW Maintenance Program" -It still says *drain* and *refill*

As for my vehicle -I dont know, Ill find out if my DEF will make it to my next oil change in 11k mi. Maybe I did only use 2 gal worth of DEF :dunno:


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

chip4 said:


> As for my vehicle -I dont know, Ill find out if my DEF will make it to my next oil change in 11k mi. Maybe I did only use 2 gal worth of DEF :dunno:


Highly unlikely. I'd place a very high probability on them only filling the active tank. While one hopes that they know there are two tanks, it is not promising that they apparently didn't know BMW NA will not reimburse them for using the 1/2 gallon, rather than 2.5 gallon, bottles of DEF.


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## Tedj101 (Nov 24, 2009)

Penguin said:


> Highly unlikely. I'd place a very high probability on them only filling the active tank. While one hopes that they know there are two tanks, it is not promising that they apparently didn't know BMW NA will not reimburse them for using the 1/2 gallon, rather than 2.5 gallon, bottles of DEF.


OK, I had my first service done today. Not very encouraging. They told me it was just an oil change. I told them that at a minimum it required the DEF to be filled and that there was a software recall. They found the software recall but the SA still said it didn't need DEF. Finally he talked to the guy at the next booth and he said they top up "the fluid". Apparently they aren't familiar with the name DEF.

Well, when I went to pick the car up I didn't have my glasses so I couldn't read the invoice. When I got home, there was no mention of DEF on the paperwork. I would assume that there would be a notation of the amount of DEF used on the paperwork if it was done. Can anyone confirm that? (Part numbers would also help!)

Thanks,
<TED>


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## chip4 (May 20, 2003)

Tedj101 said:


> Well, when I went to pick the car up I didn't have my glasses so I couldn't read the invoice. When I got home, there was no mention of DEF on the paperwork. I would assume that there would be a notation of the amount of DEF used on the paperwork if it was done. Can anyone confirm that? (Part numbers would also help!)
> 
> Thanks,
> <TED>


PN of DEF is *1/2 gallon* bottles
PN of Diesel Oil listed is *1 qt* Castrol SLX Professional OE 5w30 (Dealer Only)

I verified these PN's cause I bought a bottle of each at the dealer just in case I needed a top off.


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## Tedj101 (Nov 24, 2009)

chip4 said:


> PN of DEF is *1/2 gallon* bottles
> PN of Diesel Oil listed is *1 qt* Castrol SLX Professional OE 5w30 (Dealer Only)
> 
> I verified these PN's cause I bought a bottle of each at the dealer just in case I needed a top off.


I think they are shortcutting in your parts department. On my invoice oil shows as:

07-51-0-037-195 which looks like a regular BMW part no. I don't have any indication that DEF was used at all...

<TED>


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## 62Lincoln (Sep 26, 2004)

Ted, I'd guess that if they had done _anything_ regarding DEF, it would show up on your invoice as charges, for both product and labor (sounds like you think the same thing). I think you are drawing the only reasonable conclusion, that they didn't touch the DEF.


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

Snipe656 said:


> I was thinking a siphon to prime the start of the job. My experience with getting something from a jug into something else is you got to prime the line with something, be it your mouth or a pump.


I put the 2.5 gal jug on a cart or box that's higher than the port and pour.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

When you get the warning you have a 1000 miles before it will not start again from being low on fluid. I think with that being the case that you are probably then running just on the active tank, but maybe someone knows for certain. Since the passive transfers into the active then you should just need to add some fluid to the passive. As to how much, I guess it would depend on your goal. If the goal is just to make it last until you get to the dealer then probably no point in adding anything.

I can't seem to find it but somewhere on here is a link posted to a DIY howto on adding DEF to these cars with pictures showing how to do it. But you basically just need to know which port behind the fill door is the one for the passive and which for the active. Or guess really does not matter because if you start to fill up the active then it will not take a lot and you can switch then to the other port.


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

rmorin49 said:


> When u get a warning that the DEF is low how much do u need to top it off and do u need to fill both reservoirs on the car? Still a little confused as to how to get the fluid into the reservoirs. I will save some 1 gallon containers and go to Pilot and buy bulk fluid. Thanks for the info. Anyone with pics to illustrate the filling procedure?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


If you get a warning between services usually means you transfer pump has lost it's prime. So filling the passive tank won't help. The active tank is smaller, but I don't remember the exact capicity at this time. I think about a gallon is enough to reset the light and not to have to worry about it for a few thousand miles. I usually get 5k or so from the active tank.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

dunderhi said:


> If you get a warning between services usually means you transfer pump has lost it's prime.


I wish this had been the case with mine. I simply was out of fluid prematurely. Seems another common reason for the light to come on early is sometimes the technicians screw up and only fill up one tank instead of both.


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## AZDrPhil (Mar 22, 2011)

Once the pump loses its prime is a trip to the dealer the only way to get it working properly again?


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## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

AZDrPhil said:


> Once the pump loses its prime is a trip to the dealer the only way to get it working properly again?


As far as I know the answer is yes.


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

I've had 2 oil changes on my D so far.
The first one they did refill the DEF as it lasted till my second oil change!

The second time they forgot the DEF as 3 days after the service my D protested with the warning that the DEF is almost empty and I called and had them refill the DEF.

One would have thought that a certified BMW Tech would know the requirements for servicing a D or at least have a check list to follow?

I stood by and watched them refill the DEF and instead of using the prescribed apparatus (which they showed me) they use a funnel and pour the DEF directly into the Active & Passive tanks and in the process I saw a lot of wastage due to spills!


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

DC-IT said:


> I stood by and watched them refill the DEF and instead of using the prescribed apparatus (which they showed me) they use a funnel and pour the DEF directly into the Active & Passive tanks and in the process I saw a lot of wastage due to spills!


They spilled a lot when my car had it's second oil change. I bet this is why but I was not there to watch. The first oil change they were still doing the drain and refill method.


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Do the caps just twist off by hand or do u need a special wrench? I noticed they had a torx like indentation on each cap. Under one of my caps there is a label but I haven't removed the cap to read what it says. I also confirmed that my local Pilot truck stop does have bulk def for 2.59/gallon. Will they allow it to be dispensed into any type of container?


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## wxmanCCM (Feb 17, 2010)

rmorin49 said:


> Do the caps just twist off by hand or do u need a special wrench?...


I've been able to twist mine off by hand.


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## Moxie (Jul 26, 2010)

rmorin49 said:


> Do the caps just twist off by hand or do *u need a special wrench*? I noticed they had a torx like indentation on each cap. Under one of my caps there is a label but I haven't removed the cap to read what it says. I also confirmed that my local Pilot truck stop does have bulk def for 2.59/gallon. Will they allow it to be dispensed into any type of container?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


Use the screwdriver handle that came with the car. It's dual purpose on purpose & listed in the manual.


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## Penguin (Aug 31, 2003)

I believe the X5 tool kit has the special adapter/wrench, but mine simply screws-off by hand and didn't require to special wrench..


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

DC-IT said:


> I've had 2 oil changes on my D so far......


Did you have fuel filter changed at the second oil service as well?
335d produced after 3/09 should have diesel fuel filter changed every 2nd oil change according to SIB000408 updated July 2009, just wonder if that happened
Thanks


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## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Mbretl said:


> Use the screwdriver handle that came with the car. It's dual purpose on purpose & listed in the manual.


Thanks, I plan to do some investigation tonight.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp


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## bimmerdiesel (Jul 9, 2010)

tlak77 said:


> Did you have fuel filter changed at the second oil service as well?
> 335d produced after 3/09 should have diesel fuel filter changed every 2nd oil change according to SIB000408 updated July 2009, just wonder if that happened
> Thanks


In my case they didnt change diesel fuel filter after 2nd oil change. I enquired and talked around but didnt get definitive answer. If any of you gets it or has info on when it will be changed or cleaned please post it here


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## DC-IT (Sep 27, 2009)

tlak77 said:


> Did you have fuel filter changed at the second oil service as well?
> 335d produced after 3/09 should have diesel fuel filter changed every 2nd oil change according to SIB000408 updated July 2009, just wonder if that happened
> Thanks


I'm not sure if they did.
I'll have to look for the work order and verify that.
Thanks.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

tlak77 said:


> Did you have fuel filter changed at the second oil service as well?
> 335d produced after 3/09 should have diesel fuel filter changed every 2nd oil change according to SIB000408 updated July 2009, just wonder if that happened
> Thanks


Is there a way to get a copy of that SIB? I asked specifically about fuel filters during my second change and they had no answer as to when it is ever done.


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## Snipe656 (Oct 22, 2009)

And as luck would have it, my car was made before that date. So my mystery of fuel filters will probably continue.


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## tlak77 (Aug 5, 2009)

Snipe656 said:


> And as luck would have it, my car was made before that date. So my mystery of fuel filters will probably continue.


If your car was made before that date, it needs fuel filter replaced every 3rd oil change.
Attached SIB, I'm gonna remove it shortly, don't want to get in trouble... also there could be newer version out there.....
I just realized Service Warranty Booklet for 2010 model on page 9 states the fuel filter needs to be replaced every 2 oil change. Any owner should have that document, if not in hard copy, soft copy can be downloaded from bmw website....


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## SteveGu (Nov 3, 2010)

This is interesting, from that pdf:

"Use of *B10* or higher biodiesel, kerosene, or mixing with small
amounts of gasoline
is not permitted!"


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