# European delivery redilvery nightmare



## AJS2005 (Dec 30, 2010)

I need advice and a shoulder to cry on. Before I get started a little background information. I ordered my car from an out of state dealer who will at this point remain unnamed pending a resolution. When I ordered the car the CA indicated that the car would be delivered to his dealership and they will arrange transport to me. 

So, I get my car on Friday and it was immediately evident that there was a problem. There are two gouges on the lower front bumper where it looks like the car was scratched when being loaded on a truck. I called the CA and he seemed reasonable about working to get them fixed so I hop in the car to take it for a spin around the block. I get up to 30 miles an hour and the traction control light comes on and the car starts swerving violently. I take it back home driving a total of maybe a half mile. I call roadside assistance and they pick the car up and take it to a local dealership. The local dealership puts the car on a lift and the lower rear control arm is broken in half and a couple other components are bent on the right rear side. After speaking to the tech at the local dealership and seeing the damage it seems pretty obvious that the control arm was broken from being strapped down imporperly in transit. I let the CA know who intern called the trucking company who of course is saying the damage must have occurred after I got the car. Early indications are that the out of town dealership that sold the car is going to do the right thing to get the car repaired and the local dealership has given me a loaner car. I should know more on Monday how long its going to take as well as get confirmation that someone other than me is paying to get the car repaired. 

To complicate things, I called one of my really good friends who is a master tech at BMW in DC and told him all of the parts that the local dealership plans to replace. Based on the pcitures that I sent him he said they are fixing everything that they should except that they should also replace the rear subframe to make sure that there are no long term problems. How should I go about having them add replacing this part? 

I probably should have asked this before I ordered the car, but what recorse do I have if no one accepts responsibility? 

Also, will these repairs show up on the car's history and lower the resale value of the car?

I think at this point all I'm looking for is my car in like new condition in a reasonable time frame, (i.e. time to order parts & make repairs), a loaner to drive in the interim. 

Thanks in advance for all your help and comments.


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

AJS2005 said:


> I need advice and a shoulder to cry on. Before I get started a little background information. I ordered my car from an out of state dealer who will at this point remain unnamed pending a resolution. When I ordered the car the CA indicated that the car would be delivered to his dealership and they will arrange transport to me.
> 
> So, I get my car on Friday and it was immediately evident that there was a problem. There are two gouges on the lower front bumper where it looks like the car was scratched when being loaded on a truck. I called the CA and he seemed reasonable about working to get them fixed so I hop in the car to take it for a spin around the block. I get up to 30 miles an hour and the traction control light comes on and the car starts swerving violently. I take it back home driving a total of maybe a half mile. I call roadside assistance and they pick the car up and take it to a local dealership. The local dealership puts the car on a lift and the lower rear control arm is broken in half and a couple other components are bent on the right rear side. After speaking to the tech at the local dealership and seeing the damage it seems pretty obvious that the control arm was broken from being strapped down imporperly in transit. I let the CA know who intern called the trucking company who of course is saying the damage must have occurred after I got the car. Early indications are that the out of town dealership that sold the car is going to do the right thing to get the car repaired and the local dealership has given me a loaner car. I should know more on Monday how long its going to take as well as get confirmation that someone other than me is paying to get the car repaired.
> 
> ...


so sorry to hear this. Was the car purchased brand new? That is, were you the "first" to drive it? Miles on the car?

Too bad your friend in DC cant fix it for you. I guess its impossible to have your friend write an estimate of damages. Seems like you need a third party written estimate from an expert, maybe a couple estimtes. I mean, if this is going to be your car for a while, you want it fixed for the long term.

This subject is timely b/c I just posted a thread asking folks if they had done 'courtesy redelivery'. I just bought a car out of state and I am exploring options to have it shipped back to me.

Good luck


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

I think you should separate out what you NEED to have fixed versus what you would LIKE to have done. Assuming everyone steps up, the local dealer will repair the broken bits and redo the bumper. The behind-the-scenes battle over who pays, between the selling dealer, the local transport company, BMW, or any of their insurers hopefully will happen out of sight and not effect you.

Your friend's advice is probably good, but it seems extremely unlikely anyone will follow it. The industry just isn't set up to make warranty repairs on the chance that it will pay off sometime in the indefinite future. In fact, you'll still have a valid warranty so the subframe can be fixed/replaced later if a problem does turn up.

I hope this all works out to your satisfaction.


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## masti99 (Feb 14, 2011)

bummer, hope all gets resolved to ur satisfaction...


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## AJS2005 (Dec 30, 2010)

Yes the car was purchased new. Thanks for the comments. I'll let yall know how it comes out.


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

As long as the shipping company is a vendor to the dealer you are fine. Let them sort it all out. It is their insurance. I would press for the rear subframe repair/replacement. You bought a new car and it all needs to be made like new. If need be involve BMW NA Customer Service. Do everything with the dealer in writing and photographs. Build a paper trail. If need be ask for a BMW rotating factory engineer to look at what you have and help out as a last resort. Ask for compensation for the diminished value of the car or ask for a total replacement. Be diplomatic and firm.


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## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your plight. Keep us posted. You just helped me make the decision to go and personally pick up my car in LA rather than have it trucked to me in PHX.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

AJS2005 said:


> I let the CA know who intern called the trucking company who of course is saying the damage must have occurred after I got the car.


I would have it documented what mileage this was noticed. It counters the argument that it happened after delivery. I'm sure the trucking company noted the mileage prior to loading.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

PyratOne said:


> so sorry to hear this. Was the car purchased brand new? That is, were you the "first" to drive it? Miles on the car?


All European Delivery cars are purchased new.


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

JSpira said:


> All European Delivery cars are purchased new.


right, my bad. Forget for a moment I was on a European Delivery forum.

But, my line of logical was valid (and incoherent). As Chrischeung alluded to, mileage I think would be key. Mileage at dropoff, mileage at port of destination, before/after trucking, etc. Havent done ED before, so I dont know at which points its recorded.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

PyratOne said:


> right, my bad. Forget for a moment I was on a European Delivery forum.


 :rofl: :rofl: (laughing with you, not AT you)



PyratOne said:


> But, my line of logical was valid (and incoherent). As Chrischeung alluded to, mileage I think would be key. Mileage at dropoff, mileage at port of destination, before/after trucking, etc. Havent done ED before, so I dont know at which points its recorded.


I´m not sure if mileage matters since it only takes a moment or two to cause the damage that the OP´s car had.

Mileage is recorded at drop-off and probably at arrival at the VDC. Other than that, I´m not sure as we care more about mileage (Kilometerstand) than most people, as evidenced by threads here (how many 10ths of a km did your car get driven after drop-off? :angel


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

I was actually referring to the mileage recorded at the time the car was loaded at the dealership for transport to the OP.

Say it said 823 miles. The OP just drove it half a mile. It will now say 824 miles. This is the mileage I recommend that the dealership document. It would be surprising if damage to the car that severe would occur in <1 mile, countering the claim by the trucking company that it occurred after delivery. I guess their next story is that it was pre-existing damage...


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

chrischeung said:


> I was actually referring to the mileage recorded at the time the car was loaded at the dealership for transport to the OP.
> 
> Say it said 823 miles. The OP just drove it half a mile. It will now say 824 miles. This is the mileage I recommend that the dealership document. It would be surprising if damage to the car that severe would occur in <1 mile, countering the claim by the trucking company that it occurred after delivery. I guess their next story is that it was pre-existing damage...


exactly. thanks chrischeung for writing what my dense brain is thinking but my clumsy fingers cant type! If the OP dropped the car off with no symptoms at mileage X, then the story of damage starts to come together.

This thread experience is exactly why I just decided against courtesy delivery. Likely 99% deliveries are fine.......

My best to the OP that he gets this worked out to his satisfaction.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

PyratOne said:


> This thread experience is exactly why I just decided against courtesy delivery. .


What would this have to do with courtesy delivery, however? :dunno:


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

JSpira said:


> What would this have to do with courtesy delivery, however? :dunno:


isnt that how OP got his car from out of state dealer? Or am i assuming too much?

I recently looked into this and posted on other thread. I too am buying out of state (1200miles from home) for my ED.

I only recently researched options to get the car home to me after redelivery. I wont elaborate here as its outlined on the other thread. But, I came to the decision (and my scenario is unique to me) that I wanted to do PCD after ED, then drive home (still 850miles). Among the reasons was that I wanted a fully BMW delivery process. Courtesy delivery (or whatever OP did) is/was outside BMW. Or am I misinformed?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

PyratOne said:


> isnt that how OP got his car from out of state dealer? Or am i assuming too much?


I thought the OP was clear in the OP in that the car was trucked to him.


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

JSpira said:


> I thought the OP was clear in the OP in that the car was trucked to him.


Yes, but "trucked" could be courtesy delivery program formally. Or independent of courtesy delivery program. I simply dont know the difference. :dunno:

I was under the impression that 'courtesy delivery' means the car would come from ED to the dealer that purchased the car (for me that dealer is 1200miles from my home). Then that dealer sends (im assuming on a truck) the car to dealer near me. For a fee of course. I understand the PCD option, but we'll leave that out of the electronic discussion.

am i missing something?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

PyratOne said:


> Yes, but "trucked" could be courtesy delivery program formally. Or independent of courtesy delivery program. I simply dont know the difference. :dunno:
> 
> I was under the impression that 'courtesy delivery' means the car would come from ED to the dealer that purchased the car (for me that dealer is 1200miles from my home). Then that dealer sends (im assuming on a truck) the car to dealer near me. For a fee of course.
> 
> am i missing something?


Apparently but I am not sure what... I don´t see how trucking the car relates to local courtesy delivery since the car obviously does not go to the selling dealer (which is, after all, the point). On the other hand, BMW does send the cars via truck to all dealers - is that what you meant?


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

JSpira said:


> Apparently but I am not sure what... I don´t see how trucking the car relates to local courtesy delivery since the car obviously does not go to the selling dealer (which is, after all, the point). On the other hand, BMW does send the cars via truck to all dealers - is that what you meant?


sir, you would not be the first person to be confused by my rambling! :rofl:

Funny, im posting similar info on the other thread right now. I apologize if Im repeating.

In my case, I bought car from dealer in alabama. I live in massachusetts. I was told that the courtesy delivery meant my car would go from germany to alabama. Alabama dealer calls mass dealer, negotiates transport/trucking fees with my local mass dealer (this is done prior to my leaving for ED by the way). I pay the fee they negotiate. After ED, my car comes to alabama, alabama dealer puts car on truck, transports to massachusetts dealer. Massachusetts dealer preps, cleans, presents my car to me.

DO I have wrong info on how courtesy delivery works?


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

PyratOne said:


> sir, you would not be the first person to be confused by my rambling! :rofl:
> 
> Funny, im posting similar info on the other thread right now. I apologize if Im repeating.
> 
> ...


OK, it just dawned on me as to what you are missing in terms of information.

Courtesy delivery is a complete substitution of Dealer A for Dealer B.

Let´s say the selling dealer is Dealer A. The car never goes to Dealer A. Instead, it goes to Dealer B, the local dealership that is doing the courtesy delivery (provided all is agreed upon).

This has to be determined before the car is shipped so that the car is routed to the correct port [for example, selling dealer in California but courtesy delivery in NY means the car is NOT shipped to Port Hueneme but rather to the Port of NY (which is in NJ but that´s another story)].


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## PyratOne (Jul 12, 2010)

JSpira said:


> OK, it just dawned on me as to what you are missing in terms of information.
> 
> Courtesy delivery is a complete substitution of Dealer A for Dealer B.
> 
> ...


well, that explains it. this is extremely useful information, thank you.

Apologize to OP for hogging so many electrons on this issue!

thanks, Jonathan.


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## AJS2005 (Dec 30, 2010)

Well things have taken a turn dramatically for the worse.... Let this post be a lesson for all that are considering European delivery to purchase your car locally through your dealership and not purchase from an out of town dealership. I'll keep everyone posted once a resolution is found. My fear is that it will take a while.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

I think the point is that out-of-area delivery is ok if you are doing a courtesy delivery or PCD - but relying on third-party transport is a risk.


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## SD ///M4 (Jan 24, 2011)

AJS2005 said:


> Well things have taken a turn dramatically for the worse.... Let this post be a lesson for all that are considering European delivery to purchase your car locally through your dealership and not purchase from an out of town dealership. I'll keep everyone posted once a resolution is found. My fear is that it will take a while.


Not to make light of your particular situation, but I think the lesson is not to purchase from an out-of-town dealer and have your car trucked to a local dealer as it appears that this is where the problem originated.

Lots of people have ordered from an out-of-town dealer, done ED, and had redelivery to the PCD, or they have traveled to the purchasing dealer and driven their car home without any problems.

I'm looking forward to hearing what the resolution is in your case. Good luck!

ETA: What JSpira said in more words.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

AJS2005 said:


> Well things have taken a turn dramatically for the worse.... *Let this post be a lesson for all *that are considering European delivery to purchase your car locally through your dealership and not purchase from an out of town dealership. I'll keep everyone posted once a resolution is found. My fear is that it will take a while.


I did not know that courtesy delivery was in fact sending the car directly from the VPC to my local dealer plus some charge until I read this thread. I thought that the only way was letting my out-of-state dealer transport my car to my home once it arrives at that dealer after ED like your did.

So yes, it was a lesson but not against buying from an out of state dealer. It was a lesson of knowing the exact details of any dealer transaction regardless of the location.

Good luck and thanks...


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## clarkcc1 (Jan 23, 2007)

JSpira said:


> I think the point is that out-of-area delivery is ok if you are doing a courtesy delivery or PCD - but relying on third-party transport is a risk.





SD 335is said:


> Not to make light of your particular situation, but I think the lesson is not to purchase from an out-of-town dealer and have your car trucked to a local dealer as it appears that this is where the problem originated.
> 
> Lots of people have ordered from an out-of-town dealer, done ED, and had redelivery to the PCD, or they have traveled to the purchasing dealer and driven their car home without any problems.
> 
> ...


Just reaffirming what has been said - courtesy delivery is Germany-port-VPC-local dealer following BMW's normal supply chain for said delivery dealer, despite being purchased through a dealer that could be located on the other side of the country.

Curious - what are the fees some of you guys have been paying for courtesy delivery? Wondering if the $500 my CA at purchasing dealer negotiated with the delivery dealer is good or if there's a lot of profit in that? Seems like the only costs are a tank of gas, a few bits of inventory paperwork and a sales guy's time for 20 minutes... Should be more like $150 I'd think...


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## jsciv (Oct 5, 2010)

clarkcc1 said:


> Curious - what are the fees some of you guys have been paying for courtesy delivery? Wondering if the $500 my CA at purchasing dealer negotiated with the delivery dealer is good or if there's a lot of profit in that? Seems like the only costs are a tank of gas, a few bits of inventory paperwork and a sales guy's time for 20 minutes... Should be more like $150 I'd think...


Well, the delivering dealership will also have to register the car with the appropriate state's DMV (though one would think that some of what you paid to the original dealer should go toward that it certainly doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that they'd charge you as a separate item), who knows what the sales tax paperwork would be like between the two dealerships, and they will take the time to wash/detail/prep the car once it comes off of the truck (they never come off the truck presentably clean I would assume), as well as repair any minor damage in transit. So yeah, I could see them feeling justified in asking $500.


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## clarkcc1 (Jan 23, 2007)

jsciv said:


> Well, the delivering dealership will also have to register the car with the appropriate state's DMV (though one would think that some of what you paid to the original dealer should go toward that it certainly doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that they'd charge you as a separate item), who knows what the sales tax paperwork would be like between the two dealerships, and they will take the time to wash/detail/prep the car once it comes off of the truck (they never come off the truck presentably clean I would assume), as well as repair any minor damage in transit. So yeah, I could see them feeling justified in asking $500.


In my case registration is not a part of what the local dealer will do. I will have my plates in hand, put them on myself. All they need to do is hand over the keys- quite literally. Doesn't seem justified to charge $500 for that - again unless I am missing something... I almost want to say don't wash it, don't put gas in it, let me meet the truck when it arrives and I'll give you $50 for the hell of it.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

clarkcc1 said:


> In my case registration is not a part of what the local dealer will do. I will have my plates in hand, put them on myself. All they need to do is hand over the keys- quite literally. Doesn't seem justified to charge $500 for that - again unless I am missing something... I almost want to say don't wash it, don't put gas in it, let me meet the truck when it arrives and I'll give you $50 for the hell of it.


It's not what the dealer does or doesn't do - it's the fact that you are being offered the convenience of courtesy delivery as opposed to having to either 1.) pick up the car from far away 2.) have it trucked (bad idea as we have learnt in this thread) or 3.) do PCD. The dealership has overhead and it also has to do things such as registering BMW Assist (usually minimal time but every little bit counts) and so on.

Since the dealership is under no obligation to do any of this, it's up to the ind. dealership to set a fee.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

clarkcc1 said:


> Just reaffirming what has been said - courtesy delivery is Germany-port-VPC-local dealer following BMW's normal supply chain for said delivery dealer, despite being purchased through a dealer that could be located on the other side of the country.
> 
> *Curious - what are the fees some of you guys have been paying for courtesy delivery? Wondering if the $500 my CA at purchasing dealer negotiated with the delivery dealer is good or if there's a lot of profit in that? Seems like the only costs are a tank of gas, a few bits of inventory paperwork and a sales guy's time for 20 minutes... Should be more like $150 I'd think...*


I asked the same question in the other courtesy delivery thread as the $500 -$1000 commonly quoted here was absurd to me ... my local dealer quote was $250.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

clarkcc1 said:


> In my case registration is not a part of what the local dealer will do. I will have my plates in hand, put them on myself. All they need to do is hand over the keys- quite literally. Doesn't seem justified to charge $500 for that - again unless I am missing something... I almost want to say don't wash it, don't put gas in it, let me meet the truck when it arrives and I'll give you $50 for the hell of it.


In that case, why don't you offer to pay $100 over invoice for ED? $20 an hour for 5 hours work. Even offer to do as much of the paperwork yourself.

Something has to pay for the lights and capital. Sooner or later you have to make money on something.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

I've done 3 courtesy deliveries of ED cars: 2 @$500 and one free through BMW of Manhattan.

Dick


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## clarkcc1 (Jan 23, 2007)

Certainly seems as though the responses are all across the board. Open to negotiation since incremental costs are basically non-existant.


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## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

clarkcc1 said:


> Certainly seems as though the responses are all across the board. Open to negotiation since incremental costs *are basically non-existant*.


Another local dealer told me this morning that their courtesy delivery fee is $750. The distance between the first dealer that told me $250 and this one is about 10 miles. What they are performing once the car is delivered to them is fundamentally the same at each location.

So yes, you are correct.


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## AJS2005 (Dec 30, 2010)

You are correct. Doing a courtesy delivery would have been better. The sells guy told me that having him find transport would be cheaper/easier so I went with that route... Foolish me. 

Unfortunately my saga continues. I have picture confirmation of the undamaged car when it arrived at the dealership along with a clean bill of lading of it arriving at the dealership. I also have a copy of the bill of lading showing my car leaving with scratches on it. Despite this the dealership is only agreeing to pay for half of the damages. 

Unfortunately I think I'm headed down the path of filing a lawsuit.


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## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

AJS2005 said:


> You are correct. Doing a courtesy delivery would have been better. The sells guy told me that having him find transport would be cheaper/easier so I went with that route... Foolish me.
> 
> Unfortunately my saga continues. I have picture confirmation of the undamaged car when it arrived at the dealership along with a clean bill of lading of it arriving at the dealership. I also have a copy of the bill of lading showing my car leaving with scratches on it. Despite this the dealership is only agreeing to pay for half of the damages.
> 
> Unfortunately I think I'm headed down the path of filing a lawsuit.


Well....bummer. Please spill the beans: who is the dealer and which shipper did they use?


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## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

AJS2005 said:


> You are correct. Doing a courtesy delivery would have been better. The sells guy told me that having him find transport would be cheaper/easier so I went with that route... Foolish me.
> 
> Unfortunately my saga continues. I have picture confirmation of the undamaged car when it arrived at the dealership along with a clean bill of lading of it arriving at the dealership. I also have a copy of the bill of lading showing my car leaving with scratches on it. Despite this the dealership is only agreeing to pay for half of the damages.
> 
> Unfortunately I think I'm headed down the path of filing a lawsuit.


I feel for you. who is the dealer?


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## AJS2005 (Dec 30, 2010)

I'll try to notify everyone who the dealer is once this process is complete.


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