# Premium gas gets rid of ticking lifters?



## stream41 (Feb 13, 2007)

I was complaining today to my SA about the ticking lifters on both our cars, and he said that premium gas will stop the ticking. I was pretty skeptical. Is this true?


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## Ryan M (Dec 20, 2006)

Uh, gasoline and lifters have nothing to do with each other. They don't even come in contact with each other, ever. Unless he was talking about premium gas stopping "pinging", in that case he would be correct. But pinging and lifter tick are two completely different things with different sounds.


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## philo98 (Nov 25, 2006)

stream41 said:


> I was complaining today to my SA about the ticking lifters on both our cars, and he said that premium gas will stop the ticking. I was pretty skeptical. Is this true?


No.


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## tturedraider (Nov 11, 2005)

However, both of your cars call for and are designed for premium gas (at least 91 octane) and that really is what you should use. Even the conservative Consumer's Union magazine Consumer Reports acknowledges that if a car is designed for premium gas that's what should be used.


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

Ticking lifters are a part of BMW life....get used to it....


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## DM3MD (Nov 11, 2007)

Fast Bob said:


> Ticking lifters are a part of BMW life....get used to it....


+1...I had an '09 loaner and it ticked like crazy!!! Sad part is that it only had a few thousand miles on it...so, BMW hasn't figured it out thus far.


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

DM3MD said:


> +1...I had an '09 loaner and it ticked like crazy!!! Sad part is that it only had a few thousand miles on it...so, BMW hasn't figured it out thus far.


Loaners aren't good guides of anything. I know that several people take their loaners out and beat the crap outta them.


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## ffej (Aug 17, 2005)

Kamdog said:


> Loaners aren't good guides of anything. I know that several people take their loaners out and beat the crap outta them.


 :drive: :eeps:


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

Kamdog said:


> Loaners aren't good guides of anything. I know that several people take their loaners out and beat the crap outta them.


Yeah, but that does`nt mean diddly...we live in the age of the rev-limiter, and unless you drive the car constantly in first gear with the tach redlined ,beating it ain`t gonna do much....


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## stream41 (Feb 13, 2007)

Okay, I figured it was BS.


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## kevalent (Jun 7, 2007)

tturedraider said:


> However, both of your cars call for and are designed for premium gas (at least 91 octane) and that really is what you should use. Even the conservative Consumer's Union magazine Consumer Reports acknowledges that if a car is designed for premium gas that's what should be used.


Designed for premium gas yes, but you could run 87 in it all day without a problem...it would just retard the ignition to cope with it (and in turn reduce power output). I've tried and there is a noticeable difference in power when you really need it...that's why I choose to spend the extra 2 bucks to filler up with the good stuff :thumbup:.


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## sprintman (Feb 22, 2008)

Auto-Rx and the correct oil (ACEA A3, LL01) can help lifters, fuel can't.


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## jaaX3 (Oct 31, 2005)

Can someone please explain lifters to me? TIA


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

jaaX3 said:


> Can someone please explain lifters to me? TIA


Lifters (or more precisely, "Valve lifters") are small cylindrical parts , one end of which rides on the lobes of the cam, the other end contacts the valve stem, opening & closing the valves, "Hydraulic lifters" are self-adjusting via a small internal oil-filled plunger, and "Solid lifters" are, as the name implies, solid, and must be (more frequently) adjusted to provide a proper clearance. Solids are by nature noisier, but allow for a higher-RPM range in performance applications.


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## imz4n (Oct 24, 2005)

The only time I have lifters ticking is during agressive curvy driving or at the autox. One of the bimmer boys heard me talking about the ticking during the autox and told me that if I was to add 1/2 quart of oil that I would not have the issue. During normal driving I do not have an issue. the way is was explained to me was that the oil pickup is not in the oil all the time due to hard agressive turns and the extra oil keeps the pickup in the oil all the time. It did work when I added 1/2 quart more the ticking went away.

What do you people think?


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## e36m34life (Mar 4, 2008)

imz4n said:


> The only time I have lifters ticking is during agressive curvy driving or at the autox. One of the bimmer boys heard me talking about the ticking during the autox and told me that if I was to add 1/2 quart of oil that I would not have the issue. During normal driving I do not have an issue. the way is was explained to me was that the oil pickup is not in the oil all the time due to hard agressive turns and the extra oil keeps the pickup in the oil all the time. It did work when I added 1/2 quart more the ticking went away.
> 
> What do you people think?


I have heard this before as well. It makes sense why it works, and it doesn't seem like it would harm the engine so I don't see why not. :dunno:


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

imz4n said:


> The only time I have lifters ticking is during agressive curvy driving or at the autox. One of the bimmer boys heard me talking about the ticking during the autox and told me that if I was to add 1/2 quart of oil that I would not have the issue. During normal driving I do not have an issue. the way is was explained to me was that the oil pickup is not in the oil all the time due to hard agressive turns and the extra oil keeps the pickup in the oil all the time. It did work when I added 1/2 quart more the ticking went away.
> 
> What do you people think?


This theory is nonsense....oil starvation to the extent that would cause the lifters to "bleed out" would also cause spun bearings at the crank and rods, quickly followed by catastrophic engine failure (or at LEAST some killer rod knocks).


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## stream41 (Feb 13, 2007)

All I know is that this X3 is _awful_ about ticking. We pull into a parking lot, and people stare at our car because it's so obnoxious. Makes me feel like I'm driving an old Buick or something.

It also really pisses me off that BMW's only reaction to my $45K car sounding like a Buick is "Oh, it's okay, a lot of them do it."


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## jvr826 (Apr 22, 2002)

I'm interested in the topic as an avid track driver. My history...

20+ track days with my car on BMW Synth, never a problem. I did run 1/2 quart over as a rule.

One track day with Mobil 1 0w40 in the engine I suffered a ticking lifter. It turned out to have failed and scored the exhaust camshaft. The ticking never stopped, even after the long drive home, so I brought it in for service. Fixed under warranty.

Since then I've had an oil pan baffle installed and exclusively use BMW Synth, many track days since and no problems. One track day was 305 miles on track in hot weather.

So, I bring the car to a car control clinic (I am an instructor) and run it thru the slalom and skidpad/drifting exercises. After the second time on the skid pad my engine starts ticking like crazy. Being aware of the problem from auto-x talk, I wasn't too worried, but I did wonder why it happened on my car with the oil pan baffle in place. After the 1 hour drive home, the ticking was gone.

What gives?


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## imz4n (Oct 24, 2005)

Fast Bob said:


> This theory is nonsense....oil starvation to the extent that would cause the lifters to "bleed out" would also cause spun bearings at the crank and rods, quickly followed by catastrophic engine failure (or at LEAST some killer rod knocks).


I guess that is why I posed the question. Perhaps I was just a bit low on oil in the first place. What I am saying is that the 3 Z's ( Z4 and Z3 ) that added the 1/2 quart of oil did not tick the rest of the day. The other 8 Z's ( Z3 and Z4's ) still ticked. I would welcome a better explaination.  I am just stating what happened. :dunno:


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

imz4n said:


> I guess that is why I posed the question. Perhaps I was just a bit low on oil in the first place. What I am saying is that the 3 Z's ( Z4 and Z3 ) that added the 1/2 quart of oil did not tick the rest of the day. The other 8 Z's ( Z3 and Z4's ) still ticked. I would welcome a better explaination.  I am just stating what happened. :dunno:


OK, here`s my personal take on it (coming from 40+ years of engine-building experience, mostly hi-performance V8s):
Hydraulic lifters are great from a "comfort & convenience" standpoint....they`re quiet, and don`t require much adjustment. HOWEVER (at least on pushrod engines), hydraulics are usually all done by around 5500 RPMs....when pressed beyond their design limits, they "pump out", losing their ability to control the valve`s travel, resulting in "valve float" (*not* a good situation). Solid lifters are noisier, and require more frequent adjustment, but will allow a properly-built engine to rev to stratospheric levels, making a bunch more horsepower in the process. Overhead cam engines use lighter-weight valvetrain components, and cut friction losses, allowing for higher RPMs to be reached.
I have a feeling that BMW uses a "semi-solid" lifter design, a hydraulic that probably incorporates smaller-than-average oil orifices to prevent "bleed-out" and valve float, but sacrificing a little noise control in the process. Like it or not, these ARE high-performance engines, and a little engine noise is a small price to pay.


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## imz4n (Oct 24, 2005)

> Fast Bob


I am a novis at these sort of things. I like to enjoy the cars and do like to use them. I however do not like to tear my cars up either. For those of us that are not in the know, Pose questions and do very much appreciate the knowledge ( opinions or takes on a given question ) in these forums. Thank you for taking the time to dumb it down a bit , so that I can get my mind around what is happening. My car is a daily driver and on the road is just fine. Doing autox's as to make errors in a safe place and not on the highways. I notice this kind of an issue, makes me think twice about what I am doing. Your comment about spinning a bearing is something I do not wish to experence. I found it strange that a bit of extra oil kept the ticking from happening. I just knew the ticking was not a good thing. It may have not been the lifter that was ticking, however, I know it was not valves ticking from low octane gas either. After letting the car set for an hour the ticking went away on all cars as well.:dunno:


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## Fast Bob (Jun 4, 2004)

imz4n said:


> I am a novis at these sort of things. I like to enjoy the cars and do like to use them. I however do not like to tear my cars up either. For those of us that are not in the know, Pose questions and do very much appreciate the knowledge ( opinions or takes on a given question ) in these forums. Thank you for taking the time to dumb it down a bit , so that I can get my mind around what is happening. My car is a daily driver and on the road is just fine. Doing autox's as to make errors in a safe place and not on the highways. I notice this kind of an issue, makes me think twice about what I am doing. Your comment about spinning a bearing is something I do not wish to experence. I found it strange that a bit of extra oil kept the ticking from happening. I just knew the ticking was not a good thing. It may have not been the lifter that was ticking, however, I know it was not valves ticking from low octane gas either. After letting the car set for an hour the ticking went away on all cars as well.:dunno:


Autocross can place some unusual demands on your car, and it`s always best to try to head off any potential problems....there are baffles available which mount in your oilpan, they have little swinging trap-doors which keep a pool of oil around the pickup, assuring adequate delivery, no matter what the G-forces may be. It`s an investment that would give you protection and peace of mind while tracking your car....might be worth looking into.


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## vocalthought (May 5, 2008)

Lifters are really "pushers" because they push the valve INTO the cylinder. They don't lift anything. :dunno:


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## Ryan M (Dec 20, 2006)

vocalthought said:


> Lifters are really "pushers" because they push the valve INTO the cylinder. They don't lift anything. :dunno:


Back in the days of cam in block engines, they lifted the pushrod. In today's overhead cam engines, they are actually called buckets lifters. Some of the non hydraulic or solid type include shims for your valve adjustment, hence the name "shim over bucket" or "shim under bucket."


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## rgr887 (Feb 27, 2006)

3 trips to have a bleeding procedure( rev'ed to @ 3,500 rpm's for a pre-determined time). The 4th trip they replaced the upper heads with new "old" factory replacements and several weeks later, after the service manager admitted he ordered the wrong "new" heads, they finally replaced the "old, new" heads and assorted hardware and gaskets. That was back in October and 9 days out of service. Then the engine stopped ticking. When I mentioned the provisons of NYS Lemon Law had already been passed(3 or more trips for the same problem), only then I was taken seriously. Patience and persistence will be rewarded if your willing to solve this mess which BMW dealership sa's are sweeping under the rug, I think, in hopes that you the owners of these cars with the ticking engines will just ignore. Actually this is very sad, imho. It took me a year(5 trips) to get this right. I'm sure the performance of the engine was not 100%...
There's an old commercial for a national oil brand, and the tag line is..."you can pay me now, or pay me later!" 
Point is, if it's not running correctly when new or with low mileage and under warranty, how long and strong will your car's engine run? If your leasing, then it's someone else's problem down the road. tick/click, tick/click, tick/click, tick/click...


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## ProRail (May 31, 2006)

imz4n said:


> The only time I have lifters ticking is during agressive curvy driving or at the autox. One of the bimmer boys heard me talking about the ticking during the autox and told me that if I was to add 1/2 quart of oil that I would not have the issue. During normal driving I do not have an issue. the way is was explained to me was that the oil pickup is not in the oil all the time due to hard agressive turns and the extra oil keeps the pickup in the oil all the time. It did work when I added 1/2 quart more the ticking went away.
> 
> What do you people think?


Of all the cars I've had over my 50 years of driving, only the last 2 (an Infiniti and my Bimmer) have NOT had ticking lifters. Have no clue as to the reason, but neither of those 2 ever used oil between scheduled (factory specified) changes. Since you asked, that's what I think.


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