# BMW's new e-car strategy



## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

The first problem with the i3 is that it's ulgy, so ugly that it couldn't get that way by accident (like for example the Porsche Panamera). The next big problem is that unless you a electric car fanatic, you're probably not aware that there are two i3's, a pure electric one, and a plug-in hybrid with a two-cylinder gasoline engine.

The i8 is too expensive for me. I'd rather have a 911... and an M2 for trips to Walmart.

Frau Putzer saw an i3 in a restaurant parking lot, liked it, and she'd past due for new car. Since she's retired now (no longer having a 56 mile daily commute and week long stints where she had to stay in a hotel near work for being on-call), she could get by with a i3 for trips to the gym, Target, Fresh Market, pedicure place, etc. At the time I wasn't aware of the plug-in hybrid version of the i3. I told her that if we bought one, we'd have to stay overnight on the way back from 'our" BMW dealership 92 miles away to recharge the batteries.

Another board said that he next X3 will come in a xDrive30e version. I think BMW's smart for sticking to plug-in hybrids instead of pure electrics. If I'm paying $50k for a car, it needs to be capable of a road trip.


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## st_o_p (Sep 30, 2003)

It's a bit offensive when a moderator edits the content of my post. Kind of like putting words in my mouth.

True, I posted link to the article - and its 1st paragraph; and that got replaced with other content from the same article. Still - it's not what I posted. Should have been separate post by the moderator...


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## tim330i (Dec 18, 2001)

st_o_p said:


> It's a bit offensive when a moderator edits the content of my post. Kind of like putting words in my mouth.
> 
> True, I posted link to the article - and its 1st paragraph; and that got replaced with other content from the same article. Still - it's not what I posted. Should have been separate post by the moderator...


Apologies. We were simply trying to provided more content to the readers of your post than a simple link without reposting what you posted.

Tim


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## cBeam (Sep 6, 2006)

It's about time that BMW gets serious about electric cars, and no, i3 does not count. While most of BMW's current line up is just bland, the i3 is plain ugly. Why should I drive an ugly car when I want an electric car? Performance wise the i3 plays in the Nissan Leaf league, a car half the cost of an i3 (and the Leaf is ugly too, but at least does not have the suicide doors for the back passengers).
I just fear BMW is late to the e-party when compared to Tesla, Nissan, and even GM (at least if the up and coming Bolt delivers on what was promised). Heck, I don't have the numbers, but driving in Silicon Valley it seems that there are many more Tesla Model S than new BMW 7 or Benz S Class.
If they only now start to seriously think about electric cars like 3 series, 5 series or SUVs then it will take them longer than 6 years to get good products to the market. I won't wait that long.
Electric cars are unbeatable for short distance driving. A Model 3 or Chevy Bolt would fulfill 98% of my commute needs. Just the trip to Tahoe seems out of range.
I just leased a 70k BMW (Diesel), which I misuse for city trips as my wife uses our electric car. When the lease is up it will be electric pure for my family. Whoever has the right offering will get my money. 
I really like BMWs, have driven them for longer I care to admit, but if BMW has nothing to compete in the Tesla S range it will be Tesla or something equivalent for me.


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## mr_clueless (Nov 13, 2009)

With the Chevy Bolt due out shortly, BMW will have to do something fairly substantial to improve the range of their pure electric vehicles, or they simply don't stand a chance.

The i3 has several things that go against it
- Limited range (the biggest issue, IMO)
- Avant garde exterior styling -- the rear actually looks as if one car is sitting on top of another!
http://static1.squarespace.com/stat...b0b26ce6e39dc8/1408310921753/DSCF6024_HDR.png
- Poorly put together interior that rattles when brand new


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## mr_clueless (Nov 13, 2009)

Autoputzer said:


> The next big problem is that unless you a electric car fanatic, you're probably not aware that there are two i3's, a pure electric one, and a plug-in hybrid with a two-cylinder gasoline engine.


This is incorrect. The gasoline engine only works to charge the battery and if one drives long enough, one gets to the point where the engine cannot keep up with the battery drain. Hence the term "range extender". It extends the range by a few 10's of miles, but one cannot keep going on gasoline alone as one would be able to with a traditional hybrid.


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## jadnashuanh (Jun 25, 2011)

Sales of the i3 in the USA are dominated by those in California. On 13 Sep 2017, they changed their rules on the HOV stickers, and that alone is likely to cause sales to pick up, as they'd reached the limit on available stickers for new car purchases...HOV lane use is a big deal in some places, and may be the biggest driving factor for purchasing one capable of utilizing the sticker.

FWIW, I don't find the i3 ugly, but then, once I owned an ID19. The I-division provided a lot of research that is now being utilized across the board on their 'other' cars. To meet the ever tightening efficiency requirements, some form of electrification is going to be required.

The infrastructure for a BEV will take years to come into effect, limiting pure EV mode to somewhat restrictive uses. This means that some form of hybrid will become much more prevalent in the interim, or until some major breakthrough in energy storage and distribution occurs (don't hold your breath!).


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## jrshc (May 7, 2016)

Autoputzer said:


> If I'm paying $50k for a car, it needs to be capable of a road trip.


Does going 200 miles between 20-minute recharging sessions fit your definition of road trip capability?


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

jrshc said:


> Does going 200 miles between 20-minute recharging sessions fit your definition of road trip capability?


No.

My 535i goes 500 miles between refueling stops. Those stops can happen at any gas station selling Top Tier Gas, and they take about twelve minutes. Most of those twelve minutes are me taking a leak and grabbing some Twinkies or a corn dog for the road.

Those fast charges of lithium-ion batteries also degrade their service life.

I know two people with ten-year old hybrids (one Prius and one Accord). Both of them have had to replace the batteries for over $3k, totally wiping out ten years of what they've saved in fuel costs. They'll never recoup the increased initial purchase costs of the cars.

My 535i gets 29-30 MPG on road trips, which works out to less than $0.09/mile in fuel costs. My sis-in-law's $3k Prius batteries and her fuel costs (65,000 miles @ 45 MPG, assuming gas is $2.40 gallon) works out to about $0.10/mile.

There might come a point where electric and hybrids make economic sense for in-town use. But, first the cost of motor fuel will have to go way up, and the cost and durability of lithium batteries will have to come down.


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## jrshc (May 7, 2016)

To each his own. For me the 200 miles/20 minute stop would be ideal. At my advanced age there's no way my bladder could make it 500 miles between stops, even if we were travelling at 150 mph. Mrs. jrshc's effective range is even less than that.

These days we typically have 2 big roadtrips a year, from Palm Springs, CA to Sunriver, OR, a little over a 1000 miles each way depending on how we go. Usually takes us 4 days going up, 2 days on the way back. I can't remember the last time we were in the kind of rush that we felt compelled to drive more than 500 miles a day. Isn't that why god invented airplanes?

We're not yet the Tesla-driving hippies we aspire to be, but we're on the list for the Model 3. I like the technology, it makes mrs. jrshc feel like she's saving the planet (disagree with her at your own peril).

As for the economics of it all, I would venture to say we're less than 10 years away from your "gas is expensive, lithium batteries are cheap" inflection point.


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## Autoputzer (Mar 16, 2014)

jrshc said:


> To each his own. For me the 200 miles/20 minute stop would be ideal. At my advanced age there's no way my bladder could make it 500 miles between stops, even if we were travelling at 150 mph. Mrs. jrshc's effective range is even less than that.
> 
> These days we typically have 2 big roadtrips a year, from Palm Springs, CA to Sunriver, OR, a little over a 1000 miles each way depending on how we go. Usually takes us 4 days going up, 2 days on the way back. I can't remember the last time we were in the kind of rush that we felt compelled to drive more than 500 miles a day. Isn't that why god invented airplanes?
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm the road warrior in the Putzer household. If I'm going somewhere less than 1000 miles away, I'm driving. Road trips were the primary reason I bought my 535i. If I let her, Frau Putzer would jump on a plane for a 500 mile trip.

I had projects in SE Texas when I was working, 900 miles away. It took three flights to get there. With check-in, two layovers, baggage collection, and picking up a rental car, it was faster to drive. I could start the trip home the evening after I finished my work. Doing that, I'd get home sooner than if I'd waited around until the following day to fly. Driving for business also paid for about half of the purchase cost of my appliance cars.

Being retired now, I no longer need a road trip worthy appliance car. If the spreadsheet eventually says that an electric car is more cost efficient, I'll buy one. But, I suspect it would only be for knocking around town.


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