# Manual Frustration! Local Driving School?



## 325i RocketGuy (Sep 27, 2002)

robg said:


> *From what I gather the problems with the e46 clutch stem from it being somehwat "over-engineered" (which is sometimes a characterisitc closely linked w/ German cars). As far as I know, no Honda or Toyota has a clutch that is:
> -hydraulic
> -self-adjusting
> -uses a dual-mass flywheel
> ...


"Over-engineered" maybe, but wrong nonetheless. After all, the slogan isn't "The Ultimate Engineered Machine".


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## bluskye (Jul 24, 2002)

02330ci said:


> *This is important because until you know exactly where the clutch engages you cant get smooth shifts. i.e. If youre all the way down on the clutch pedal and start giving it gas as soon as you begin to let up on the clutch youll be overrevving by the time the clutch actually engages.
> 
> Just practice slowly letting up on the clutch with no gas. These cars will easily go into first with no gas without stalling. Practice until you know exactly where that spot is. Than youll know the precise point of when to give it gas.
> 
> ...


I cannot agree any more.

Let the clutch out slowly, then give the car gas. The reason being since the engagment point is so high, if you push the gas too soon, the engine is over-reving by the time it actually engages.


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## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

Thanks for all the responses. I will be trying out your suggestions tonight after I get home since I drove my beater (auto  ) since I'm working at a nursing home today(esp since "nana's" sister's Buick with 6 foot doors needs a 90 deg angle to get out  ). I do get a taste on how fun this manual can be when I get to blast out of a freeway onramp in 3rd/4th gear, with that "direct-drive" feeling that you get with a manual.


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## stsmytherie (May 8, 2003)

Another trick: don't dump the clutch on a hill. Use the e-brake to hold the car, and start normally. 

It's easy to do and cheaper than replacing your clutch.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Practice Practice Practice.... 

I've been driving manual for about 6.5 years or so and since getting the BMW, sometimes I still goof... it definitely is different from my old car's clutch which I rarely have the launching issues and lurching issues with... Just keep practicing and you'll get it eventually...

oh... and someone said they don't remember seeing a Honda that was hydraulic clutch and self adjusting.... my 97 Integra clutch is hydraulic and is self adjusting.


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## rost12 (Dec 22, 2001)

Just one more point, since I didn't see anyone mention it... Proper seating position helps! I've found that if I sit too far away shifting is much harder. Optimally, your legs should be able to touch the firewall behind the pedals and still remain slightly bent.


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## waxhaw (May 5, 2003)

Magbarn, think of it this way...

For an *additional $1275*, you could have bought an automatic transmission, and ended up with a car which:

a) would be 77 pounds heavier;

b) would be weight imbalanced toward the front;

c) would be slower in a 0-60 run by 0.6 seconds;

d) would have poorer handling;

e) would be worse on fuel economy by 2 to 3 mpg; and

f) would be b-o-r-i-n-g

Trust me, you made the right decision. Don't get discouraged after a mere 1200 miles. The clutch will loosen up a bit, and your skills will improve to the point that it will be second nature to you.

You'll know you've mastered the 6-speed when you are able to back into a tight parallel parking space on a 15-degree incline while holding a cup of hot coffee filled to the rim, without spilling a drop. You'll get there, sooner than you think.

Your car sounds great; I'm anxiously awaiting mine, also with a nat brown leather interior... and a 6-speed, of course.


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## richard (Apr 3, 2002)

The posts about letting the clutch out a little before giving any gas is so true. The manual I was used to that wasn't necessary. Took me quite awhile to get used to. Do you think I did any damage to my clutch? I'd find myself revving to about 1800 RPM before the clutch would start to engage. Never smelled anything.


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## robj213 (Nov 2, 2002)

Hey I felt exactly the same way as 1200 miles! I am now only at 1750 miles and feel like I am getting the hang of it. I have had my car for 6 months now but don't drive it everyday because I have a beater, so you might learn it faster if you drive it everyday.

I find it helpful to hit the gas harder than I normally would on other cars when the clutch just starts to engage and let out the clutch all the way. There's a timing you have to get used to as the slight delay in throttle, yes its very annoying but I think I have gotten more used to it now.



> Main difference is that the e36 clutch doesn't have have this sudden increase in tension right around the engagement point that my clutch annoyingly has. Does anyone else also have this?


I know what you are talking about, it feels like the clutch pedal is trying to kick my foot off of it sometimes!


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## 3seriesbimmer (Jun 20, 2002)

AND.........you have one of the best interiors there is LOVE it...I know off topic but you'll get the hang of it...can't tell you how many times I've gotten pissed at my choice of stick in this car....BUT when you start to get the hang of it it's worth the frustration TRUST me!!!


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## Matthew330Ci (Sep 9, 2002)

when i picked up my 330ci in munich, i had never driven a stick 330 before and it took me maybe 10 minutes in munich city traffic to get the hang of shifting.


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## rand777 (Apr 13, 2003)

I recently opted for my first manual car ever (a ZHP) and at 1600
miles now am loving every minute of it. 10 years ago a buddy taught me how to drive stick in his then old bmw for about an hour and had not driven stick since. At first N-1 and 1-2 were both a pain in the butt but I manage to get them both pretty smoothly now most of the time. I've found that if I let out the clutch just a little more slowly I can shift in the lower gears sometimes with zero lurch at all, other times with just a little. Definitely takes practice but this being my first car with a stick I find the practice to be fun Keep at it, you'll get there. My first week I got a little despondent too from the incessant lurching in 1st and 2nd gear...now I am ever so glad I didn't get the auto

-Rand


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## jgrgnt (Apr 27, 2002)

Here's my technique:

I have a clutch stop installed, so my timing may be a little different, but due to the delay of the DBW throttle, my best launches come when I hit the gas at the exact moment I begin letting off the clutch. Like some of the earlier posts describe, I ease off the clutch and bring it to a point just before full engagement and continue to hold it there while I give it more gas. By about 1800-2000rpm, the engine has "hooked" up with the tranny and it's ready to rock.

I've had my car for almost a year now, having started with practically no experience. After 17,500 miles, the clutch still seems fine, even after all that abuse. While I can safely say I've improved since those first days of bucking, kicking and stalling, I still find myself doing some pretty dumb things. My most common screw-up: stalling while reversing out of a parking spot. 

It's all about practice, patience and persistence. :thumbup: 

Michael


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## e46shift (Oct 12, 2002)

dont give up. drive by wire can make it a bit tough but i can drive confidently and smoothly after about 4000 miles of experience. as you drive longer your leg will get stronger and you will be able to control the clutch better. remember the 1-2 shift is longer than a shift from 4-5 for example. the gears between 1 and 2 are far apart compared to the others so you have to give it just that much of extra time when shifting. good luck


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## magbarn (Jan 28, 2003)

UPDATE:
Thanks all for the replies and encouragement!
Took my car out this weekend to a deserted parking lot at 5AM and practiced for about an hour. Yup, to the above that said to let the clutch partially engage first before starting has helped immensely. Starting the car is now 90% "smooth startup" vs. the 40% earlier. I then took my car up to Arrowhead lake and man, this car rocks! The last car I drove up was my 97 maxima and this car handles so much better, I had a grin all the way up the mountain and down! Still need to work on downshifts though... If I don't heel-toe/dbl clutch on turns, is there anything else I need to do other than let the clutch out slowly?


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## Artslinger (Sep 2, 2002)

On downshifts let off the throttle and push the clutch in, then blip the throttle to match the rpms to the lower gear. I also really never downshift in city traffic unless traffic slows or I'm making a turn. On a open twisty road I downshift to keep the engine at a optimal rpm range to help with immediate throttle response, and the higher rpms/torque seem to help keep the car planted to the road.


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## ayn (Dec 19, 2001)

I just put in a DIY clutch stop for ~70 cents, it helps too, I am still getting used to the shorter travel though, but it's definitely easier to get it right than having the OEM super long travel... I couldn't get the car started with a 40mm bolt, so if you do the DIY just get a 30mm, and then you can adjust the height of it to make it just low enough to get the car started...

--Andrew


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## 330d (Mar 17, 2003)

I may have hold of the wrong end of the stick here, but can you guys in the US drive a manual car without passing a driving test in a manual car?


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## waxhaw (May 5, 2003)

330d said:


> *I may have hold of the wrong end of the stick here, but can you guys in the US drive a manual car without passing a driving test in a manual car? *


Yes, 330d, sadly enough, here in the colonies, drivers education courses almost always use automatic transmission cars, and that's the way our 16-year-olds are taught. Then, when the driving test is given as part of the licensing requirement, it is usually given in the driver's own car. If that car is an automatic, then so be it.

There is no additional licensing requirement for driving a manual, and nothing to prevent gear-grinding self-instruction on our public streets, for those who bother to learn. Increasingly, most "kids" don't bother. "You mean, like, shift gears myself? Whoa, dude, what's up with that?" Having an enhanced stereo is much more important, don'cha know... :tsk:


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## ayn (Dec 19, 2001)

So true, most of the 18-year-old who drives a stick is because their fathers *insisted* them to drive one. and in most cases their parents bought their cars so they had no choice. 

--Andrew


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