# SMG and ECU tuning?



## MD2b (Dec 20, 2002)

has anyone tried ecu tuning with smg?


i'm guessing that this is where smg would kick the crap out of the 6sp since the tuning could be done right down to the millisecond as well as having the revs raised for acceleration assist?


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*not what you think*

i have been discussing that exact subject with a very reliable authority on tuning. his concensous opinion is leave it alone. he says there are so many traps that can bite you - actually render the car very unsafe, because the smg.dsc.dme are linked at the hip. there is intention in the throttle mapping in regards to smg - without the 'hesitation' you'd be replacing parts frequently. PTG recently did a lot of testing and burned the smg up in track application'

maybe in generations to come there will be advancement made - seems right now best left alone


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## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

*Re: not what you think*



shep01 said:


> *maybe in generations to come there will be advancement made - seems right now best left alone *


I wonder if the SMG control module from the CSL is PnP? According to all sources, the SMG on the CSL, while retaining the DriveLogic, is more aggressive, and it also has a DSC that was basically worthless.:rofl: THe DSC didn't intervene on the test drives for drivers from Evo and Car until significant opoosite lock had already been applied.:yikes: Don't matter to moi, I never drive with it on anyway. Can't get the car sideways with it on.:thumbup: :bigpimp:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG


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## MD2b (Dec 20, 2002)

so in theory, a chipped 'normal' 6sp M3 would be faster than a non-chipped smg equipped M3?


stuka: maybe u should look into 4-wheel steering?


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*CSL info.*

not a whole lot has filtered down yet but, it is clear, that the CSL is a different drive logic - the cold air intake/fuel mapping is different but it is not really clear to what extent. the ptg cars running in wc seem to be using the csl intake and they have a motec brain - not the bmw dme -

the jury is still out regarding the smg reliability - while there are some running it out on the track - the long term reliability is still anyones guess. what was made crystal clear to me was that it is a very complicated mapping as it related to the other components within the dme control and consequently should not be messed with to any extent if the reprogramming takes aim at the speed or path of the smg.

a true smg tranny (ala world rally cars) will cost you app. $16k and that's without all the custom adaptive work - that is a 'real' smg - bullit-proof so to speak - short of that mod. it seems best to leave the smg alone


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

shep01,

Do you know any details of what PTG found out regarding SMG? I thought they had said that their cars would run SMG in the SWC and I noted that they weren't. I January when we visited them the topic didn't come up.

Did the actuation speed and frequency in a track environment destroy the transmission or did they feel the car was not as driveable as with a normal manual transmission? Or did it have to do with the software (mapping) for a race application?

Thanks,


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*ptg and smg*

from good authority - it was both - first they tested with pretty much stock dme mapping - they burned up the actual smg mechanisms - then they tested with their own mapping/motec and destroyed clutch/bearings. This is been the experience across the board so far with the next level competition efforts. rules will not allow them to replace the smg with xtrac type 240 6-speeds so it is unlikely you will see smg on these cars.

the relation of the dsc/abs and smg is also extreemly limitting. when throttle mapping and shift points are advanced the tranny self destructs. it has been built with the 'public' in mind, some even consider the smgII a novelty (albiet a cool one) but it does seem it is not intended for Boris or Bill to pound on.


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## MD2b (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: ptg and smg*



shep01 said:


> the relation of the dsc/abs and smg is also extreemly limitting. when throttle mapping and shift points are advanced the tranny self destructs.




ah well, i still have some time to figure out if i should get the smg or put the money towards some treats from nowack, kelleners and tubi.

thnx for the info shep.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

There's no doubt it's a complex task to convert a manual transmission into a sequential computer controlled transmission. That is, it's not a sequential box, but the computer now moves all the actuators. I enjoy mine, it's a different driving experience. There's lots of things that don't easily convert to competition.


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## Jet (Mar 21, 2003)

*shep*

Are those guys able to program the stock ecu to run with the CSL box since it basically has alpha n built in as a fallback program? I know they're probably running the m800 with double vanos option, but I was curious.


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*air box etc*

i am looking into this right now. it seems the entire ecu has been dumped from what i can tell. while they def. have the csl intake, i have been told that everything else is proprietary; motec, etc. it

what i can tell you is the pricing from them is prohibitive anyway. it may take another year before the stuff is affordable at all. i will keep looking into it. i am hooked up with help from alegra guys - they run an entire ptg car so, as soon as i can tell you more i am happy to help out.


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

On a slightly different topic. I've been very interested in how the S54 engine would do and Auberlen looked great, still some areas where the Porsche could pull away, but closer than before. I visited PTG with the 'CCA back in January and they were very excited about the power they were getting from the S54. Now I hear that Stuck had an S52, are you aware of that? The PTG guys were saying that the S54 was superior to the earlier engines and it should be a boost for them. Is Alegra running an S54?


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*ptg visit*

i remember talking with you a while back -

the S54 project is not complete apparantly - but it does seem as if they are getting 450hp from it. they are able to pull on the gt3's just not on the gt3-r's. to get that kind of power from a gt3 - it will cost app. $120k above the price of thecar. i imagine ptg, with the support of the factory, easily has this much money in the S54 project.

carlos(alegra) blew the S52 up at sebring. it was a brand new rebuild from ptg. i think the advantage to the s52 at this point is still reliability and cost. mcmillins car has continued to amaze; he has a ptg s52 but has done a lot with the E36 driveline and diffy. i would guess this will all evolve as they learn more from the E46M3.

funny - they are all chasing the 500hp vette still - but i don't think that will be for much longer. maybe we'll all benefit eventually from the S54 r&d. - i have 3 of them presently so i am really hoping!


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

I thought Jeff did well with the car last year. He's not a very agressive driver, I've not seen enough of him in person to judge his ability. It's also not fair to compare him to Hans Stuck or Bill Auberlen for that matter. The PTG team has surely raised the level of SWC and Boris hasn't done anything yet.

Just watching the PTG team when they first raced the M3 in ALMS they didn't have much of a chance. The additional power of the Porsches was inevitable. Only at Sears Point, where the handling makes such a difference. I'm hoping that with some additional development the S54 will make it even closer. With BMW NA paying for the development, the S54 will be available to others.


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*alms, etc*

well - funny thing, i have had two teams tell me that bmw factory could have continued the s54 developement in alms and been competative - both jeff mcmillin and carlos dequesada said the same exact thing

when i talked with jeff at road atlanta/pettite lemans year before last, he said they had 420hp from the s54 then but that they were still chasing more power. - it seems that the factory was hellbent of r&d on that v-8 that year - maybe that's how it works - maybe that was the testing ground for the next generation of M3 (M4) engines - who knows

watching the back straight at sebring the s54's held their own - they have to be pleased - i also hope we all benefit from it


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: ptg visit*



shep01 said:


> * i have 3 of them presently so i am really hoping! *


Are these race cars or track cars?


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## shep01 (Mar 31, 2003)

*3 S54's*

right now one is being built for modified club racer - fully dedicated racecar - hoping to get her down to fighting weight (2550? he says hoping) and get the ponnies up a tad - the field is so rediculously competative but at least we'll be having fun

the other 2 are street cars - 2001 Mcoupe - vin#6 made in Munich - very cool car and another M3 2003 which is the pimpmobile - its' on the rack presently geting fited with all the supension and brakes from my '01 since the '01 gets full-on race prep. and the new rg8 wheels in hyperblack with 275/35 and 295/35 khumo mx's


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

Very nice. Did you post pictures of the RG's on rf? Seems to me I remember some.


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

SteveT said:


> *Very nice. Did you post pictures of the RG's on rf? Seems to me I remember some. *


check the motorsports forum here


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## SteveT (Dec 22, 2001)

atyclb said:


> *check the motorsports forum here  *


OK, I found 'em. Very nice.


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