# BMW xdrive vs Audi quattro



## ak907 (Sep 6, 2007)

Hey guys. come someone help me out here? I have a buddy who, like myself, appreciates the fine driving machine that we call a BMW. He is also a big fan of Audi's, Porsche's, and such which there is nothing wrong with in the least. We got to talking, though, and he is dead set in his thinking that the Audi quattro awd system is superior in EVERY way to the BMW Xdrive and that a quattro equipped Audi will outhandle an awd BMW in the snow every time, hands down. I think he was pissed 'cause I showed him all these comparisons where a Bimmer won against an Audi due to its superior handling charecteristics nearly everytime and his retort was, "Yeah, but in the winter an Audi will destroy a BMW, ha ha." Please help me out here, I just can't stand the affont to my dignity. Thanks,

Marc


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Quattro is probably safer and likely superior to xDrive. There are also certain instances where xDrive doesn't really work too well. However, I must say xDrive is a lot of fun since it has an inherent tendency to put back wheels. Yes, that means oversteer is more likely in the BMW than the Audi............but honestly I don't mind that at all. I'll trade a bit of safety for more flexibility and fun.


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## peakpro (Oct 30, 2004)

If your speaking strictly about driving in snow.... i agree with your friend...

but the xdrive is still good enough...and when the snow melts you still have a bmw....


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## ak907 (Sep 6, 2007)

Okay, I might happen to agree that the quattro system is a wonderfully put together AWD with an outstanding track record, but safety and that kind of stuff aside, is a BMW still going to hang with an Audi in the winter when it comes to "spirited driving"? Doesn't the Bimmers inherent handling traits help it out there? Thanks again guys,

AK


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## shamulater (Apr 25, 2007)

ak907 said:


> Okay, I might happen to agree that the quattro system is a wonderfully put together AWD with an outstanding track record, but safety and that kind of stuff aside, is a BMW still going to hang with an Audi in the winter when it comes to "spirited driving"? Doesn't the Bimmers inherent handling traits help it out there? Thanks again guys,
> 
> AK


 In winter driving...wet and slick...the Audi owns it. Wouldn't even be close.


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## dbtheo (Apr 24, 2006)

xDrive acts faster than other systems, because it is able to think ahead and anticipate upcoming situations on the road. To offer this benefit, xDrive uses information from the wheel sensors showing the system wheth*er a wheel is about to spin and providing data gathered by DSC stability con*trol. The yaw rate (rotation around the car's vertical axis) and the posi*tion of the steering wheel, for example, offer important data on current driv*ing conditions. Data of this kind is essential, for example, when taking a bend fast and dynamically, xDrive consistently spreading out drive forces perfectly between the two axles and minimising both under- and oversteer in the process. 

Apart from this significant improvement of agility and driving pleasure, xDrive also ensures a substantial increase in driving safety, BMW's DSC stability control system therefore intervening far later in many cases than would be required with a conventional all-wheel-drive concept.



Better traction, particularly on snow and loose ground.

With BMW xDrive reacting within fractions of a second, the system offers enormous advantages also in terms of traction. When setting out on slippery or loose ground, for example, the time-lag between the loss of wheel grip on the surface and the re-distribution of drive forces to wheels with grip is only a few milliseconds. So xDrive elegantly solves and eliminates the usual prob*lems otherwise encountered so often when setting off, without the driver even noticing what is happening.

(reprint)


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## raf996 (Apr 16, 2007)

I agree with your frind as well. Audi Quattro in snow or ice has no match. I owned an Audi and driven Volvos, Subarus, Xdrives, mercedes 4matcs. The Audi is capable of being thrown around in snow with complete control. I have had so much fun in my Audi. The others seem to have so much electronic control that all they do is slow you down and keep you going straight and "under control". If i am buying an all wheel drive it would definitely be an Audi.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

audi uses the gleason torsen system and said to be one of the best

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/traction/tech_traction_4wd_2.htm#Torsen


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

ak907 said:


> Okay, I might happen to agree that the quattro system is a wonderfully put together AWD with an outstanding track record, but safety and that kind of stuff aside, is a BMW still going to hang with an Audi in the winter when it comes to "spirited driving"? Doesn't the Bimmers inherent handling traits help it out there? Thanks again guys,
> 
> AK


One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

Kamdog said:


> One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.







:dunno:


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

Kamdog said:


> One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.


Hmm, why not?!?!? It is one of the best time to let the beast out of the cage.

Cheers,

Chuck


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## peakpro (Oct 30, 2004)

Kamdog said:


> One should not do 'spirited driving' in nasty winter weather.


it would seem to me that it would depend on where you do the spirited driving


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## Z4 Steve (Jan 6, 2007)

I would go with the Audi.


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

Having owned an A4 and a 328xi, the Audi is clearly the better system for handling and performance in snow / slush / torrential rain. Quattro, being a completely mechanical system, allows a much finer degree of control and responsiveness. The difference is not night and day, but it is very noticeable. Quattro feels very intuitive and does enable even a rookie driver to throw the car around in the snow and ice. 

On dry pavement, Quattro understeers like a stuck pig. Latest tuning in the B7 series has tuned more oversteer bias to lessen this to a degree, the Xdrive still 'feels' more fun due to its RWD bias/tuning


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## Ron_jeremy (Apr 3, 2006)

93LE said:


> Having owned an A4 and a 328xi, the Audi is clearly the better system for handling and performance in snow / slush / torrential rain. Quattro, being a completely mechanical system, allows a much finer degree of control and responsiveness. The difference is not night and day, but it is very noticeable. Quattro feels very intuitive and does enable even a rookie driver to throw the car around in the snow and ice.
> 
> On dry pavement, Quattro understeers like a stuck pig. Latest tuning in the B7 series has tuned more oversteer bias to lessen this to a degree, the Xdrive still 'feels' more fun due to its RWD bias/tuning


The 328i was a E46, and did not have X-drive at all!
The X-drive was introduced in 03 with the X3 i belive, E53 got X-drive in 04 with the facelift, and E60/61 has it also, anong with the E9*.
So get your facts straight before blabla...

Funny how many says Audi quattro is the better 4*4 system.
Actually it tells me how much branding means these days...
:thumbdwn:

For RL experience, and facts --- I live in norway, safe to say, this is a winter country to say the least...
There've been several serious test on 4*4 systems, because these systems provides usability on all surfaces and up here, we need it.
 
So, these test, to the tester's surprise, found the X-drive system to be better and faster than the Audi Quattro systems.
The world are progressing you know, nothing remains the same, so before answearing on things you think, check some facts first.


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## Adumbration (Jun 23, 2007)

HW said:


> audi uses the gleason torsen system and said to be one of the best
> 
> http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/traction/tech_traction_4wd_2.htm#Torsen


Note that "Quattro" is not a technology, it's just Audi's clever branding for AWD.

They used to use Torsen, which is quite good, and probably better than xDrive.

However, they have recently changed to a different front-wheel-drive biased system, which is lighter, gets better gas mileage, and is apparently more geared for regular driving and not necessarily the tough stuff. I forget what the technology is called. Begins with an 'H'.

I'm not certain how it stacks up to xDrive or their previous Torsen system, but it's not clear to me that Audi's new system is the winner in snow.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Adumbration said:


> However, they have recently changed to a different front-wheel-drive biased system, which is lighter, gets better gas mileage, and is apparently more geared for regular driving and not necessarily the tough stuff. I forget what the technology is called. Begins with an 'H'.


Haldex maybe? :dunno:


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## shamulater (Apr 25, 2007)

Ron_jeremy said:


> For RL experience, and facts --- I live in norway, safe to say, this is a winter country to say the least...
> There've been several serious test on 4*4 systems, because these systems provides usability on all surfaces and up here, we need it.
> 
> So, these test, to the tester's surprise, found the X-drive system to be better and faster than the Audi Quattro systems.
> The world are progressing you know, nothing remains the same, so before answearing on things you think, check some facts first.


 Can you provide a link to these tests...I'd be very interested in reading thru them. Thanks.


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## Adumbration (Jun 23, 2007)

AzNMpower32 said:


> Haldex maybe? :dunno:


Yep. that's the technology that Audi is currently using for the A6. I'm not certain about the A4 and A8 since I only focused on the A6 when I was doing my research, but I wouldn't be surprised if they use or will use Haldex as well.

Ron_jeremy, if you have some links or simply more info, we'd love to hear it.

One question I have regarding xDrive vs other systems: It seems like xDrive relies rather heavily on the brakes to help distribute power. That may work out very well when corrections are only required occasionally, but I'm wondering if it's a reasonable system to use in the kind of racing in the video that HW posted. Is there a risk of brake overheat and failure?


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

Ron_jeremy said:


> The 328i was a E46, and did not have X-drive at all!
> The X-drive was introduced in 03 with the X3 i belive, E53 got X-drive in 04 with the facelift, and E60/61 has it also, anong with the E9*.
> So get your facts straight before blabla...
> 
> ...


I think you should check out your facts before you attack someone. E90 328xi. Mine was a 2007 though

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/328xisedan/default

:thumbdwn:
:thumbdwn:

wow! aren't you a pompous ass. What's Norwegian for "Owned"? Have you even owned both cars and can make a valid first person comment? Or are you the typical Internet bench racer: quoting third person accounts and magazine tests as gospel? Nice to know you let 'professional testers' do the thinking for you.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex

http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/tools/glossary/engine_driveline/Haldex__clutch.html

haldex is being used in the TT and A3

torsen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsen



> *Torsen applications*
> 
> *[edit] Center*
> 
> ...


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

In general, Haldex is used when the engine is mounted latitudinally as the TT and A3 are based on the VW golf/jetta platform which mounts the engine sideways.

The last (B5 and B5.5) Passat from 1996-2005 had a longitudinally mounted engine as it was based on the Audi A4 chassis, and thus its AWD system was actually 'Quattro'


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## Adumbration (Jun 23, 2007)

Note that Audi's own website specfically stated that the new A6 uses Haldex.

They have rewritten the page that this was stated on, but courtesy of the wayback machine:

http://web.archive.org/web/2005-re_/http://www.audiusa.com/audi/us/en2/new_cars/Audi_A6/A6/Safety.html



> 2007 Audi A6 Safety
> 
> quattro®
> The latest generation of Haldex inter-axle clutch converts torque from the engine with scarcely any loss of efficiency. quattro® distributes power between the front and rear wheels, thus increasing traction, propulsion and safety in all situations.


They rewrote the page to read:



> quattro®
> quattro® is at the core of Audi's innovative technology. Whether you're on or off-road, quattro distributes power to the axle that needs it for an agile drive that's pure pleasure.


Thus, either the A6 does use Haldex, or Audi's website had a typo. My Audi salesman also told me it uses Haldex, but that typically doesn't mean much.


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## SteveinVT (Feb 3, 2007)

I owned an A4Q and it was simply unstoppable with Blizzaks in the winter. We used ours as a ski car here in VT and it never let us down. 

Quattro is a 100% solution for winter driving, but it makes for lame summer driving (understeer anyone?). X-drive is a 95% solution for winter, but virtually disappears during aggressive summer driving.


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

The A6 absolutely does NOT use Haldex, it is a Torsen based system. The only Audi's that use Haldex are the TT and A3, which are based on the transverse engine mounted VW Golf platform. The Audi site must have had a typo and your Audi sales guy misinformed you.

Cheers,

Chuck


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## mercury26 (Oct 30, 2006)

Oh also, a lot of the new Quattro Torsen based cars (S4, RS4, RS6, etc) have a 40% (Front) / 60% (Rear) an asymmetric torque split. So it provides a slightly rear-biased feel to the car.

Cheers,

Chuck


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## mrvuml (Nov 14, 2007)

The A3 (and presumably TT) is biased toward front wheel drive, unlike the A4 which IIRC is 50/50 and the S4 is biased toward rear wheel drive like BMW xDrive.


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## Ron_jeremy (Apr 3, 2006)

> wow! aren't you a pompous ass. What's Norwegian for "Owned"? Have you even owned both cars and can make a valid first person comment? Or are you the typical Internet bench racer: quoting third person accounts and magazine tests as gospel? Nice to know you let 'professional testers' do the thinking for you.




Why are you pissed man, because i have another opinion than you, this is bimmerfest, not a VAG site...

Let me provide you with a link my friend, it's in Sweden language, but use babelfish, and i think you get the picture.

This test is between Audi A6 quattro 4,2 avant, 525Xi, hyundai santa fe, Land rover discovery, MB ML 350, Subaru legacy, VW toureg and Volvo XC70.
FYI the BMW and X-drive won...

http://www.teknikensvarld.se/files/tv0604_test_4wd.pdf


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## Irish Paul (Jan 14, 2007)

The BEST 4wd drive systems are:

1. Rangerover, Landrover system
2. Subaru system
3. Audi Quattros

All others are simply not as good.


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## 93LE (Jul 12, 2006)

Ron Jeremey, I think you might be a little slow in the head. I made fun of you because I showed you a car that you say does not exist (328xi, avail in the US and in Canada). Then I made fun of you because you quote magazine tests as gospel without your OWN experience to back them up, and what do you do? In response, you quote a magazine test

I'm not pissed at all, but picking on the handicapped is no fun


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## Ron_jeremy (Apr 3, 2006)

93LE said:


> Ron Jeremey, I think you might be a little slow in the head. I made fun of you because I showed you a car that you say does not exist (328xi, avail in the US and in Canada). Then I made fun of you because you quote magazine tests as gospel without your OWN experience to back them up, and what do you do? In response, you quote a magazine test
> 
> I'm not pissed at all, but picking on the handicapped is no fun


Handicapped?

Well now, let me tell you jerkoff, English is not my native language, so maybe i'm a bit "slow" in English.
Let's see how you manage with my native language shall we?
:asshole:
How many do you think have both an Quattro and a X drive to testdrive at home???
:jack:
I'm just trying to bring some balance to this tread, but your trying to joke with me, what's up with that?
I thought this was an international site, but i guess i was wrong.
Next time, give a poor non English member some freakin slack will you :flush:
Bottom line, Audi sucks!


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## shamulater (Apr 25, 2007)

Ron_jeremy said:


> Bottom line, Audi sucks!


 Congratulations. It's always a pleasure to see narrow minded views so well represented.:tsk:


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## ssminnow (Dec 4, 2007)

If Quattro is "Mechanical" shouldn't this test be an easy winner for it?

Sorry if this has been posted before. I am new here, live in the North East, have an A4 and am looking to switch to a 328xi.


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## shamulater (Apr 25, 2007)

The system requires a small amount of rolling resistance (the front tires being stationary negates that). It's a minor weakness that would be difficult to duplicate in real world driving. Many LSD single axle driven vehicles suffer this same weakness.


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## ssminnow (Dec 4, 2007)

Good to know. Thanks for the info.


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## dspeed (Aug 9, 2007)

Good X Drive article at:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/xdrive.htm

Not a direct comparison to Audi, but another data point.


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## ssminnow (Dec 4, 2007)

Well after having 3 different A4's over the past 9 years, I have made the switch. I will be picking up my 328xi Dec 29th. I am sure there will be some snow after that, so I will post my opinion on xdrive compared to quattro. As of now, I have been extremely satisfied with the Quattro. You feel so confident driving in the snow, knowing the thing will get you through most anything.

Stay tuned!


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## jummo (Aug 18, 2002)

The feel of the new version of xdrive is very different from that of the e46 version.

You can notice the transfer of power when it goes to the front wheels. The DSC also tolerates more sideways antics before intervening.

I drive on snow and ice daily, with several steep icy switchbacks, the car has great grip and is very easy and controllable when you want to play rally driver.

:thumbup:


jummo


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## shamulater (Apr 25, 2007)

ssminnow said:


> Well after having 3 different A4's over the past 9 years, I have made the switch. I will be picking up my 328xi Dec 29th. I am sure there will be some snow after that, so I will post my opinion on xdrive compared to quattro. As of now, I have been extremely satisfied with the Quattro. You feel so confident driving in the snow, knowing the thing will get you through most anything.
> 
> Stay tuned!


Cool. Look forward to hearing your impressions of both cars.:thumbup:


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## W.S. (Aug 29, 2006)

But aren't all AWD systems created equal? J/K!

My uncle swears by Audi's Quattro, but I really don't car. I put Blizzaks on my E39 and am quite content so far. I will test them out in the snow (6-9") today, but they are great to get out of the driveway, which always ices up since we have little time to shovel.

Wade


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## TheodoreM (Oct 2, 2009)

Test drove the 535xi before getting the 650. It was dry weather so couldn't really test it out, but I've still never felt so planted in the on the road as the Audi A6. Plus it's a V8; plenty power and plenty control. And I've driven through NY, WI and CO blizzards in my rear wheel 280zx. Fun? Yes, very much so. Safe? Not in retrospect, but then again, I used to put that car on cruise control, ask my friend to hold the wheel and climb to the hatch to find something in my backpack (don't tell the kids).


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## BlindGoldfish (Apr 27, 2009)

I read through this whole thread only to find out it was a troll who bumped it. Nice.

Anyway, the M3's LSD uses a hydraulic system similar to Subaru's to control wheel spin.


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## MOTORPHILIA (Mar 7, 2011)

*I've owned them and driven both through hell and back . . . put your money on the BMW*

The BMW system is far more advanced and it does wonderfully in the snow.

Here's a cool video to show you how the two perform differently: 




Enjoy!


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## Prontopunto (Mar 1, 2012)

http://youtu.be/ddHHoysSuXY
http://youtu.be/JjSLEH1z5mE

Audi a6 b5 Quattro tiptronic 2.8 1998 w/o Esp ( old, Summer tires ) 
Bmw x5 3.0i manual 2001 With Esp ( Brand new snow tires )


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## tb30570 (May 18, 2013)

I used to have a 2002 Audi A6 Avant with winter tires. I've never driven a car that felt so stable on ice at highway speeds.

I now have a 2008 BMW 335xi with winter tires. The rear end of this car feels loose on ice at highway speeds compared to the Audi or even some FWD cars I've owned with winter tires.

I'm not saying the Audi is faster around an ice covered race track. I'm not even saying the BMW is more likely to go into the ditch (even if it feels like it). What I will say is my knuckles are less white when driving at highway speeds in the Audi.

The BMW is definitely more fun to drive in the summer and the BMW is more fun to drive at low speeds in the winter....hands down!


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