# First ED - How to Plan an Itinerary?



## jetjock (Jun 8, 2009)

Just got word that my first-ever European Delivery, an Alpine White 528i, will happen on August 25th, and I'm pretty jazzed about that. Also a little concerned - my wife and I will have about 8 days to travel around southern Europe before dropping the car back in Munch and flying home. The issue is this: how are you guys building travel itineraries? I am getting lots of good advice on this forum - make it a driving vacation, rather than hitting all the big cities, go to Como, skip Milano, all that sort of thing. But how do you get started? What resources will tell me where the best driving vacation experience can be had? Google Maps is all very well and good but it doesn't do a thing to tell you that the little village located 30km *outside* of Zurich is THE place to stay. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

JetJock


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## obelix (Feb 16, 2008)

You've found one of the best resources there is. Just post your questions here (making sure to check the wiki first, lest you incur JSpira's wrath.)


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## GOFASTR (Apr 13, 2007)

First, get some guide books. Rick Steves is probably one of the best known and used here, and I also personally like the DK Eyewitness series. It has more pictures, and the two pair well together. I like the DK books to show me what I'm going to see and the RS books to tell me how to best do it. There are others that are specific to things like driving, and you can see several examples at any large book store. Spend an hour or so at your nearest one browsing what's on the shelf.

As far as planning, start with the biggies and then narrow it down. First, what cities/areas do I want to visit? (Ex. Munich, Salzburg, Zurich, Paris). Then, are there any sights that are absolutes? (ex. Car devliery is on Aug. 25th, do you arrive day of or day before delivery, also must see Hohensalzburg fortress and drive the Grossglockner near Salzburg, and also the Louvre in Paris). From there, see if there are any days that certain sights are closed or is it the right time of year? (Ex. the Louvre is closed on Mondays but it stays open until 21:45 on Wednesdays, August is fine for Grossglockner but February is not). Decide if flying round-trip in & out of the same city is best or is open jaw best (ex. in & out of Munich, or into Munich and out of Paris since a car drop-off in Paris is available).

Once you've got the basics covered, then try to guesstimate how many days are needed in each city/area, then add driving time between areas and ask yourself if this seems reasonable. I've put a scenario below that could show how you might think this through.

Munich - 2 nights
Salzburg - 2 nights
Zurich - 1 or 2 nights
Paris - 2 or 3 nights
Munich - 1 night (before drop-off or 0 nights arriving day of drop-off)

Drive times:
Munich - Salzburg 2 hours
Salzburg - Zurich 6 hours
Zurich - Paris 6 hours
Paris - Munich 6 hours

Can you see everything in Paris that you want to see with spending only 2 nights there? If not, then do you really want to stay in Zurich for just 1 night? Try to minimize 1 night stops if possible. Do you want to spend 6 hours on 3 different days driving? You may or may not...revise and then get more specific.

Munich - 3 nights
Salzburg - 2 nights
Paris - 3 nights (drop off in Paris now)

Aug 24 - arrive Munich, sightseeing
Aug 25 - car delivery, drive to Dachau, sightseeing in Munich
Aug 26 - day trip to Neuschwanstein, Andechs
Aug 27 - drive to Salzburg, sightseeing
Aug 28 - day trip to Grossglockner, Salzburg sightseeing
Aug 29 - drive to Paris (most of the day spent driving)
Aug 30 - Paris sights
Aug 31 - drop-off car in Paris, more Paris sights
Sep 1 - fly home

Ask yourself if you can reasonably and enjoyably do all you have scheduled. Plan a little downtime for physical recovery. Assume you'll return at some point in the future. The planning is certainly fun and part of the process to be savored. Overplan before you go and then once you're on the trip you have more flexibility should something change (weather, flight delays, change your mind on sights, etc.). Have fun! we're in the middle of our 3rd ED right now, and while it seems overwhelming planning for the first one, just trust those of us who have done so when we say it will all work out and you'll have a great time.


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## Jen&Mike (Mar 2, 2009)

+1 on the Rick Steeves guides. We're not "guidebook" people, but we really found a lot of useful information to plan and referred to it throughout our trip.

And GOFASTR also gives great advice. Consider how much you really want to drive on your "driving vacation" noting that you will be jet-lagged and that every vista will beckon you to stop and linger for a while. We were traveling with kids, so we knew that the drive from Munich to Paris would not be very feasible. We found that there were great driving day trips from Munich - in fact, I wish we would have planned more than 4 days in the Munich area! Make some lists of what you like to do - do you want to hike? See some museums? Stop at every little market you come across? Then post a tentative itinerary and people will help you out!


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## Kamdog (Apr 15, 2007)

I found that the Via Michelin map system is very good, better than google.

http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/int/tpl/hme/MaHomePage.htm


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## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Sometimes you need to explore areas to suit your own style. I will have an ED visit soon. I have visited the area previously and there are great vacation places especially in Swizerland, Italy and Austria. You need to figure how much driving and how much sight seeing is the right mix for you and your wife. Will you want go high speeds on the autobahn? Will you enjoy mountain driving? A lot of this is preference.

In So Switzerland, my wife and I enjoy Lugano and Lucarno. Very beautiful and peaceful unlike Zurich nightlife.


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## guppyflyer (Oct 26, 2006)

obelix said:


> You've found one of the best resources there is. Just post your questions here (making sure to check the wiki first, lest you incur JSpira's wrath.)


:rofl:


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## DonnaBlackson (May 14, 2006)

Here is how I planned mine. I browsed the itineries here on bimmerfest and posted several questions and people are very very responsive here, so normally you do not wait long for a response, so you can plan quicker. So get your ideas here, then go to www.virtualtourist.com which is an excellent travel forum similiar to trip advisor but with lots of pictures ( they work with trip advisor too, a partner of theirs). You go there and browse the areas you now want to see ( after browsing the ideas here first), then you get more information on how to get around, Dos and Donts,etc. Then you can ask more specific questions of the members here once you narrow down your interests and have more specific quesitons, you can ask them here. You can also join virtualtourist of course which will allow you to post questions there too as well.


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## jkp1187 (Jul 2, 2008)

Another vote for Rick Steves.

We decided to stay near Reutte, Austria on Rick Steves' recommendation. Good driving country, a lot of castles to look at nearby, generally a place not as overrun by tourists. We were also more in the mood for a lower-key, relaxing vacation instead of constant activity. We'd definitely go back there.


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## AZ-BMW (Dec 16, 2006)

jetjock said:


> Just got word that my first-ever European Delivery, an Alpine White 528i, will happen on August 25th, and I'm pretty jazzed about that. Also a little concerned - my wife and I will have about 8 days to travel around southern Europe before dropping the car back in Munch and flying home. The issue is this: how are you guys building travel itineraries? I am getting lots of good advice on this forum - make it a driving vacation, rather than hitting all the big cities, go to Como, skip Milano, all that sort of thing. But how do you get started? What resources will tell me where the best driving vacation experience can be had? Google Maps is all very well and good but it doesn't do a thing to tell you that the little village located 30km *outside* of Zurich is THE place to stay. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! JetJock


For some ideas here was my ED itinerary (if you want the tourist stuff) [BTW, I think Beewang will rent you a GPS toy loaded with German maps for your trip]:

Day 1: Arrived ~6am in Munich and collected the 2 large duffle bags at baggage claim with the 2 carry-on back-packs (yeah, no room in the 335i E93's trunk for much more). Pulled funds out of the Deutsche Bank ATM machine in baggage claim (got the inter-bank rate with no transaction fee using a BofA ATM card). Proceeded to the S-Bahn S8 train for the very easy transit to the Hilton Munich City hotel (Rosenheimer Platz station). Took the U-Bahn to Marien Platz to checkout the world's largest(?) Cuckoo Clock. Got there and the front of the building was covered with scaffolding (oh well). Did the Tourist stuff in that general area until ~1pm when the hotel rooms were available; crashed for a couple of hours sleep before taking the S/U-Bahn to the Olympiazentrum station for this trip's first German meal (Schnitzel with Spatzle) before the factory tour. Lined-up at the BMW Munich Plant entrance for the ~6pm English tour (got to see the whole operation including the paint and engine shops). Wow, a long 1st day in Deutschland.

Day 2: Up early for the easy S/U-Bahn transit to Freimann to the Delivery Center. Got to the Center and at both the check-in counter and upstairs in the Bistro they asked for the meal voucher (luckily I had received one from BMWNA). Gave them my lug nut locks and asked for them to be installed. Waited ~45 minutes, signed the forms and got introduced to my new car; got Zoll plate M7851Z. Plugged-in BeeWang's Euro DVD, Center's rep entered a few key addresses, then off to Harms (MADA) to meet Thomas and fill out the appropriate forms.
Spent the afternoon at Schloss Nymphenburg walking the grounds and touring a few buildings. Then drove back to the Hilton, parked in their nice underground garage, grabbed another German meal, then crashed for the night. BTW, the Holiday Inn is just down the street, but I used Hilton Honors Points for my stay.

Day 3: Headed to Garmisch-Partenkirchen on the Autobahn and kept the speed at or below 100mph (very difficult to constrain oneself with this car that just screams TORQUE). BTW, I noticed at 100 mph, the tach was reading only 3,000 rpm; seemed low, but I've got the Steptronic trans, not a MT.
Arrived in Garmisch and drove to the Zugspitze cable car parking lot; took the cable car up and the cog-wheel train down. Wow, what a great view from the top of the Zugspitze (Germany's highest peak, I'm told) on a blue-sky, sunny day! Still snow on the mountain, so several people were skiing; ie, that's what I forgot to bring, my ski gear (no way they would fit in the 335i with 4 people, oh well).
After traversing the Zugspitze drove over to the Edelweiss Lodge and Resort in Garmisch to check-in (an outstanding U.S. military R&R facility in Garmisch that active duty, reservist and retiree's can use).

Day 4: Now the real Tourist stuff begins. Headed over to Fussen to tour both Schloss' Nueschweinstein and Hohenschwangau. That consumed most of the day. Visited a local Fussen restaurant for another fine German meal. On the way back to Garmisch picked up the 10-day Austria Vignette, safety vest and the oval D at an ADAC shop.

Day 5: Drove over to Lake Chimsee to ride the boat out to the island and visit Schloss Herrenchiemsee. Another great sunny day for the trip and drive on the Autobahn. Bee's Navi disk has been invaluable for these trips and much easier than wading through maps.

Day 6: Drove to Salzburg to tour the city and attend a Mozart lunch concert at Stiftskeller St. Peter. Finally the weather broke and it started raining, but only for this 1 day. Also hiked up to the Salzburg Fortress (high on a hill, overlooking the city) and took the tour of Festung Hohensalzburg; and yes, I bought some Mozart chocolates. Then drove to Berchtesgaden to spent the night in a nice, small, family run bed & breakfast; Hotel Larchenhof Schonau am Konigssee.

Day 7: Went to the Salzbergwerk Berchtesgaden salt mine to take the tour, then over to Lake Konigssee for the hop-on/hop-off boat tour of the lake and lunch at a restaurant on the lake. BTW, I had purchased a cheap GSM cell phone from Mobal for this trip that was very useful for quick calls back home and to synchronize activities while in Germany; also had it in case of any emergency while driving.

Day 8: Starting to wind-down. Took the car to a self-service car wash in Garmish to get all the bugs off of it. Tried to get into the AAFES Exchange on the local U.S. Military Kaserne, but was told due to a Status Of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with Germany, my ID would not allow me access to the Exchange. Oh well, had lunch at a Subway fast food outlet on the Kaserne.

Day 9: Up early in the morning for the drive to Harms (MADA) in Munich to drop-off the car. Met Rolf for a quick ride to the airport. BTW, if you want to avoid the long checkin lines at the Munich Airport, use the self-checkin machines; we were in/out in 20 minutes and on our way thru security. Now the long wait for re-delivery!


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## thumper_330 (Jan 3, 2009)

It depends a lot on what you want to do with your trip. Are there areas of Europe you've always wanted to visit? Do you want a trip up and down the Autobahn to test the car "where it was meant to be driven"? Or do you want to go touring through every hairpin in the Alps? 

Let me give you two ideas that are "basic" ideas that a friend of mine and I are considering;

First, my friend. He's thinking of doing an ED on a 135i, but probably won't be until his brother finishes his first tour in the Marines. He wants to take his brother to Europe, pick up a 135i and then head on up the Autobahn to Amsterdam... yeah, he's just that kinda guy. Anyway, this is a trip that'll fill up a good chunk of a week, maybe puttering back through Northern Germany or even across the Eastern part of France on the way back to Munich. Either on the way out or back he wants to do a round on the Nurburgring. This is what he wants to do, and he's really looking forward to it. Oh, to be 25 again... 

Me? I'm planning on a European Delivery probably next spring or summer (probably summer). Thinking about a 335i, but that's partly 'cos I have kids and like something a bit bigger. Anyway, I'm taking the opportunity with my girlfriend to take a nice driving vacation through the Alps; Stelvio Pass, down to Lake Como, then across to Verona in Northern Italy. Spend a couple of days there (where we both want to go), then head across to Venice, and back up through Austria, and back to Munich. Just like my friend's trip this will hit many of the things that I WANT to do on my trip... a small amount of Autobahn, and a lot of hairpin turns and gorgeous views. Then again, I am a decade older than my friend, so my desires are a bit different 

Since I'm from Britain originally (grew up in Belfast) I did consider the idea of doing an ED and taking my car "home" to hang with the fam... but on further consideration that didn't really appeal to me nearly as much as seeing something new... and to do something I've never done before but always wanted to do. Hell, I can fly from St. Louis to Belfast for ~$800 so if I want to go back it'd cost me a hell of a lot less than the ED trip 

Seriously... pick a few "high points" that you want to do, then you can work out the itinerary from there. I will probably take 10 days to do my trip, and though that number is arbitrary I thought it would be enough to take in the parts of the trip I really wanted to hit. I also made sure that I'm not tied to a schedule per se... it's no fun to go on a trip and plan everything down to the wire. I figure that my high points on the trip are the Stelvio Pass, Lake Como and Verona. If I decide to stay an extra day in Verona I will quite happily skip Venice and just head straight back to Munich... still a damned nice drive. These are things I probably won't plan until almost the last minute.

YMMV, and it depends what kind of person you are; do you plan to the minute or do you just have a general idea and go with it? I fall somewhere in between, but after the first two days of my trip (Munich -> Lake Como) the rest of my planned trip is completely fluid.

HTH


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## ddtan (Apr 28, 2006)

I agree that it can be a bit overwhelming, looking at the whole trip at once, especially when you have all of Europe as your canvas. Here's the deal, you will not be able to even scratch the surface in 8 days, and there is no way that anyone can tell you what the best of anything is. My best will not be your best, and even, the best of something that wins in a nationwide poll, might not be something that you personally enjoy. So, my advice would be, to put out of your mind, what the best experience would be as defined by others, but to get in touch with your own travel style, and pick those experiences that sound most interesting. You don't say how much international travel you have done in the past. If you have done some, you could probably quickly identify the kind of stuff you enjoy. If you have not done much travel, Europe is going to be so different, it probably doesn't matter where you go, it will be a blast.
But, ask yourself, do you enjoy a lot of driving, what type of driving? Do you like cities, or small towns, museums, or hiking, food or shopping, or both? There are hundreds of experiences described in this forum, pick what sounds good to you, and don't worry about what else you may not have heard about.


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

+1

We were in München last month, did not have time to do everything we wanted to ( next trip ).
Write up your must do list, combine with your travel companion(s) must do list(s) ( GF, Spouse, kinder,.....), then cut the combined list in half.
You will have a great time, just take a little time to slow down and smell the roses.


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

Hard for us to give you recommendations because like yourself, we all like different things. Best suggestion: figure out what your priorities are: big city shopping/ night life/ tourist sites/ small towns/ mountain passes/ historical sites/ hiking/ farm stay/ wine tasting/ cooking class...whatever they are, and then figure out where within your planned stay, you can check off the highest number of those priorities. It's then a simple matter to use a mapping program to work out a routing. We'll be glad to help when you can be a bit more specific.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

This thread should be Sticky or be a part of WIKI. Advises given there is priceless. :thumbup:


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## emdreiSMG (Dec 10, 2003)

thumper_330 said:


> Seriously... pick a few "high points" that you want to do, then you can work out the itinerary from there. I will probably take 10 days to do my trip, and though that number is arbitrary I thought it would be enough to take in the parts of the trip I really wanted to hit. .
> 
> HTH


This is exactly how you should start. Get some preconceived ideas and look on the internet. Sketch it out in your own mind and post it here.

If Como is part of your wish list, then make it happen. We'll be happy to point in the right direction in terms of route and where to stay. Same for points North of Munich, or any other diirection.


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## j128i (Oct 17, 2008)

*You are on the right track.*

You started early on planning which is important based on my experience. And you have asked for ideas/suggestions for ED here which is quite clever obviously.

I did ED with my wife and 5 years old son last Sept. It was the first family European trip. 128i Coupe is my first German car. We put a must see list including Paris and Rome, my wife lists Swiss as high priority. I also wanted to mix autobahn, romantic route, city, small town, history and arts/music.

We knew driving our own brand new car is the most convenient way at the beginning phase of the plan but turned to airline and high speed train solution due to lack of confidence on BMW car reliability and bad image on Italian drivers (read from online and TV). We then realized that it would be quite difficult without a cay especially going on/off the train with luggage and a young kid and taking taxi to hotels if we want to see a lot places. We also considered to book open jaw flight tickets.

So we went back and forth - drive car - dont drive the car - eventually we decided to take the risk and drove our car all the way. This will affect hotel booking and route planning (3083 miles driving). We had a blast on the 16 day vacation and I made a right decision!

We loved Paris and Rome, we had great time to see the castles in Germany, we enjoyed stay in Interlaken and drove on Susten Alps pass was unforgettable, we relaxed a bit on the beach in Nice, we appreciate the art in Florence, we had a romantic night in Venice, we listened Wagner's opera in Opera House in Vienna. Needless to say, we had great experience on ED delivery in Welt, BMW factory tour and museum and Oktoberfest! Driving your own BMW in foreign territory in Europe on all kinds of roads will definitely make you very happy!

I believe you will have great time on ED for sure.


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## northernlights (Aug 31, 2006)

My wife and I did a one week trip back in 2007 and we kept our schedule somewhat flexible. We knew we wanted to go to Black Forest, Fussen, Salzburg and Garmisch. We made hotel reservation's for EVERY OTHER NIGHT at location's we wanted to get to. The other nights we winged it and stayed in whatever town we happened to end up in. This allowed some structure to the trip and some spontaneity. This worked very well for us and some of our best spots (lindau) were found this way. Truthfully though the on the fly hotels were usually much more basic and not as nice as the planned hotels. I am planning another ED in the fall and will probably do something similar...


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

obelix said:


> You've found one of the best resources there is. Just post your questions here (making sure to check the wiki first, lest you incur JSpira's wrath.)





MB330 said:


> This thread should be Sticky or be a part of WIKI. Advises given there is priceless.


The introduction to "thinking about your itinerary" in the Wiki *is* very good. (I know because I wrote it.  ) I just updated it with a link to this thread so all our general advice--or at least links to the advice--is in one place.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

b-y said:


> The introduction to "thinking about your itinerary" in the Wiki *is* very good. (I know because I wrote it.  ) I just updated it with a link to this thread so all our general advice--or at least links to the advice--is in one place.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## jetjock (Jun 8, 2009)

MB330 said:


> This thread should be Sticky or be a part of WIKI. Advises given there is priceless. :thumbup:


Amen! You guys have been great, the info I've obtained here has been really useful. Probably the best advice has been to plan first for what type of trip we have in mind - my wife and I have done a lot of int'l travel and in this instance we'd prefer to do the fun, scenic, enjoyable drive thing to various out of the way lakes, B&B's and so on rather than the tourist trap big cities. That alone has been great advice.

Again, thanks to all who took the time to post!

JetJock


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

jetjock said:


> Amen! You guys have been great, the info I've obtained here has been really useful. Probably the best advice has been to plan first for what type of trip we have in mind - my wife and I have done a lot of int'l travel and in this instance we'd prefer to do the fun, scenic, enjoyable drive thing to various out of the way lakes, B&B's and so on rather than the tourist trap big cities. That alone has been great advice.
> 
> Again, thanks to all who took the time to post!
> 
> JetJock


See PM. Have a great time!


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## zoltrix (Mar 14, 2007)

there are also books that focus on driving trips. Some are generic for Europe, some country specific. I planned a long driving trip using two of these, result itinerary was an amalgamation of the two.

Also, why must you return to Munich? Open jaw tickets either via Lufthansa BMW two-for-one program or miles let you fly into Munich and leave from some place else.

Personally, I don't like circular routes. *Circuitous *is ok but coming back where I start from is not fun, IMO.

Finally, seasons dictate where you go. If you're doing ED in January, you're prob better off heading south. Summertime -- Venice, for example, is not a good idea. Things like that.

EDIT: I see you're dong an August pickup. Southern Europe is bound to be hot, might make sense to head north. Just an idea..


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## kristine89 (Jun 30, 2009)

How long of a drive is it from Munich to Prague? It is unrealistic to do the castles on one day and still make it to prague in the evening?


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

kristine89 said:


> How long of a drive is it from Munich to Prague? It is unrealistic to do the castles on one day and still make it to prague in the evening?


It probably is unrealistic the drive from Hohenschwangau to Prague is just over 5 hours, and the drive from Munich to "The Castles" will take about 1 1/2 hours. So if you spend 3 hours in Hohenschwangau you will have a very long day. Prague and the castles are in opposite directions. I suggest you check places you wish to see on a map and get a general idea of geographic orientation.


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

kristine89 said:


> How long of a drive is it from Munich to Prague? It is unrealistic to do the castles on one day and still make it to prague in the evening?


Hey, you're supposed to be on vacation! Please don't even consider the posisbility any further. Rushing through an itinerary really does ruin the experience.


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## kristine89 (Jun 30, 2009)

M FUNF said:


> It probably is unrealistic the drive from Hohenschwangau to Prague is just over 5 hours, and the drive from Munich to "The Castles" will take about 1 1/2 hours. So if you spend 3 hours in Hohenschwangau you will have a very long day. Prague and the castles are in opposite directions. I suggest you check places you wish to see on a map and get a general idea of geographic orientation.


Thank you. I really appreciate the help. We were trying to decide if we should go to prague or salzburg first after munich. It sounds like it would be better to go to salzburg.


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## Boraxo (Sep 6, 2005)

I think it really depends on your situation. If this is your first trip to Europe you might want to drive to the major cities nearby like Venice, Berlin, Vienna, etc. But if you go every year or have visited some of the major cities before then I think ED is the ideal time to visit some of the smaller cities that are off the beaten track and not as easily accessed by trains and planes.

For 7 days, that would include some of the small towns in Germany, places in Austria like Kitzbuhel and possibly Salzburg, and of course Como, Lugano and some of the wonderful lake towns in Italy and Switzerland. These are places that are not too far and fun to drive to in a BMW.

That is not to say that you shouldn't visit a few cities depending on the length of your trip, but don't miss the opportunity to spend some time in the towns along the way.


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## jetjock (Jun 8, 2009)

Boraxo said:


> For 7 days, that would include some of the small towns in Germany, places in Austria like Kitzbuhel and possibly Salzburg, and of course Como, Lugano and some of the wonderful lake towns in Italy and Switzerland. These are places that are not too far and fun to drive to in a BMW.


With help from and my thanks to a great many of you, I have started to zero in on a proposed itinerary for my 528i delivery next month. I hope I'm not violating any written or unwritten protocol here by inserting the Google maps link but that seems the easiest way to let people see it. In answer to inquiries as to what kind of trip my wife and I seek to make this, we have done lots of int'l travel, have hit a lot of the big cities of Europe already, and really want this to be a fun drive through the Alps and the Black Forest.

About the only thing that's missing on this itinerary for me, because I don't think we can fit it into a 7-day trip, is heading down to Como, Lugarno and places like that in Italy. What do you guys think? As it is, this routing gets us a run on the Grossglockner Hwy down to Zell am See; it stops in one of my favorite European cities, Innsbruck; it takes in the sights of Interlaken and nearby Lauterbrunnen and Jungfrau; takes us along what I hope is a nice ride up the Rhine; and cuts east into the Black Forest near Strasbourg. Sounds pretty hard to beat but I'd welcome any and all comments, suggestions, etc. Thanks again!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...47.680183,10.706177&spn=2.603701,4.938354&z=8

JetJock


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## thumper_330 (Jan 3, 2009)

That looks like an awesome trip... if it were me I'd probably go a bit South at Innsbruck and take the Stelvio Pass just for the experience if nothing else. Top Gear called it Driving Heaven... and I can't think of a better way to be in Driving Heaven than in your own BMW 

But yeah... that trip just looks awesome to me, but here's my variant;


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## jetjock (Jun 8, 2009)

thumper_330 said:


> That looks like an awesome trip... if it were me I'd probably go a bit South at Innsbruck and take the Stelvio Pass just for the experience if nothing else. Top Gear called it Driving Heaven... and I can't think of a better way to be in Driving Heaven than in your own BMW
> 
> But yeah... that trip just looks awesome to me, but here's my variant;


Thanks Thumper! I'm pretty jazzed about it. I've adopted your variant - seems like a great idea. I had been considering a dash down the Brenner Pass immediately south of Innsbruck, but it looks like it would be tough to get going westward again towards our stops in Switzerland for quite a long way.

JetJock


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## BimmerMark (May 29, 2006)

Kamdog said:


> I found that the Via Michelin map system is very good, better than google.
> 
> http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/int/tpl/hme/MaHomePage.htm


Can you use Michelin to upload your itinerary to the car's nav system?


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

*Another idea*

One thing that always sets my itinerary is the availability of FF Tickets. Since I have a gazillion miles, I pick the places where I can get business class tickets to/from and then plan the rest of the trip. On our ED, we flew into London, took a LCC to Venice, overnight train to Munich and then returned from Amsterdam.

Same logic applies for paid tickets. If you get a really cheap fare someplace other than Munich, just take the train or LCC airline to get there.

This year its not much of a problem since traffic is way down but since Airfare is "free", that is where I start.

If airfare is not a major consideration, then the idea of what kind of trip do you want to have is the right starting place.

Some even fly into Munich, take delivery and fly right back home. There's a guy I know who does that every time but I tell him he is missing a lot of the experience. To each their own.:angel:

Cheers


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## mgthompson (Oct 14, 2007)

jetjock said:


> About the only thing that's missing on this itinerary for me, because I don't think we can fit it into a 7-day trip, is heading down to Como, Lugarno and places like that in Italy. What do you guys think? As it is, this routing gets us a run on the Grossglockner Hwy down to Zell am See; it stops in one of my favorite European cities, Innsbruck; it takes in the sights of Interlaken and nearby Lauterbrunnen and Jungfrau; takes us along what I hope is a nice ride up the Rhine; and cuts east into the Black Forest near Strasbourg. Sounds pretty hard to beat but I'd welcome any and all comments, suggestions, etc. Thanks again!


You are driving right by Mulhouse and not stopping to see the Schlumpf Bugatti Collection at the National Automobile Museum? Schlumpf Collection

We did the B500 through the Black Forest last week. Beautiful roads, but we were in the clouds and couldn't see too much.

Instead of getting on the A5 after visiting Baden-Baden I would go through Gernsbach->Bad Herrenalb->Marxell and stop in Ettlingen for a coffee and a Schwarzwälderkirschtorte, and then get on the A5.

Be prepared for a monster traffic jam when the lanes change at the construction on the A5 near Stuttgart.


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## asaseaban (Aug 9, 2005)

Here is my ED travel plans

Day 1	Arrive at Munich, Pickup Car, tour BMW Welt, and Tour plant
Day 2	Drive to Rome, Italy
Day 3	Tour Colosseum, and visit tourism site
Day 4 Visit Vatican city, and visit tourism site
Day 5 Drive to Paris, France
Day 6 Tour Eiffel tour, go shopping
Day 8 Visit winery, wine tasting, tailor
Day 7 Drive to Cologne, Germany
Day 9 Spend time with wife***8217;s friends, go sightseeing
Day 10 Tour Cologne historical sites
Day 11 Drive to Hamburg, Germany
Day 12	Spend time with long lost brother
Day 13 Take car for 140-150mph Autobahn drive with brother.
Day 14 Drop car off and fly back.

For those that have visited Europe and sounding areas, does my plan seem doable?


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## X3 Skier (Aug 21, 2005)

Unless you have a absolute need to visit Rome, I would not take the time to drive there and back since you plan on spending most of the time in Germany. Driving in Rome is semi-impossible anyway.

A loop through Northern Italy might suffice to satisfy a need for Italian experience.:thumbup:

Cheers


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## asaseaban (Aug 9, 2005)

I really want to see the Colessum and visit Vatican City. Maybe i'll remove Rome for now and make that on my next ED.


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## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

asaseaban said:


> Here is my ED travel plans
> 
> Day 1	Arrive at Munich, Pickup Car, tour BMW Welt, and Tour plant
> Day 2	Drive to Rome, Italy
> ...





X3 Skier said:


> Unless you have a absolute need to visit Rome, I would not take the time to drive there and back since you plan on spending most of the time in Germany. Driving in Rome is semi-impossible anyway.
> 
> A loop through Northern Italy might suffice to satisfy a need for Italian experience.:thumbup:
> 
> Cheers


+1 (Even then, you are probably trying to cover too much distance.)

Just to add some reality here, I plotted a couple of your "legs" on GoogleMaps:

Day 2 Drive to Rome, Italy -- Driving time ~9 hrs., not including meal stops or traffic. :thumbdwn:

Day 5 Drive to Paris, France  -- Driving time 13.33 hrs, again without meal stops or traffic slow-downs. Also, it assumes you can get out of and into the cities without problems. :thumbdwn:

This is not my idea of a vacation! I *strongly* suggest you get something like the AAA "Planning map of Europe" and look at the distances and relationships between the areas you want to visit.

Finally, two more things: (1) Which winery in Paris? (2) Below is the solution to your desire to see the Roman Coliseum...


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## thumper_330 (Jan 3, 2009)

X3 Skier said:


> Unless you have a absolute need to visit Rome, I would not take the time to drive there and back since you plan on spending most of the time in Germany. Driving in Rome is semi-impossible anyway.
> 
> A loop through Northern Italy might suffice to satisfy a need for Italian experience.:thumbup:
> 
> Cheers


+1 again... sorry, I think your itinerary is far too aggressive to be comfortable. You'd be spending an awful lot of time in the car (not in itself a bad thing)... on the roads in Italy (GAAAAHHHH!!!!)... surrounded by Italian drivers (did I remember my revolver?)...

And then to turn that around and head all the way to Paris? Yeah... if I were you actually I'd probably tour Germany... maybe the Northern part of the Alps and then cut your itinerary short (say, 10 days), then take the remaining 4 days and take a flight down to Rome. They're relatively cheap from Munich and it would be far more relaxing. You might even be able to book your flight so you can return directly from Rome instead of having to go through Munich again... but even if not you can always just fly back to Munich and then home again.

Finally... only a day with the long lost brother? I dunno about you, but I didn't see any of my brothers for 10 years, and even the four days I spent back in Belfast didn't seem like nearly long enough... but YMMV.


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## hayden (Jun 6, 2006)

asaseaban said:


> Here is my ED travel plans
> 
> Day 1 Arrive at Munich, Pickup Car, tour BMW Welt, and Tour
> Day 2 Drive to Rome, Italy
> ...


Wow - sounds like you will have many days with 0 time behind the wheel (I would be dying to get in the car!) to a few days with over 10 hours in the car...

My suggestion is you break it up into smaller trips. Our trip in Aug/Sep doesn't call for any drive of more than 4.5 hours (+ stops), and our average daily drive is more like 3 hours.

My Route on Google Maps

08/25: Depart LA
08/26: Arrive Muncih
08/27: Pickup Car at BMW Welt, Tour Factory, Take new car for drive to Berchtesgaden, Tour Eagle's Nest, Return to Munich at night
08/28: Drive to Zurich
08/29: Drive to Lago di Como - Lunch in Lucerne en route
08/30: Drive to Milan
08/31: Tour Milan
09/01: Drive to Monte Carlo
09/02: Tour the area / scenic drives
09/03: Drive to Provence
09/04: Tour the area / scenic drives
09/05: Drive to Bagnols
09/06: Drive to Paris
09/07: Tour Versailles
09/08: Drop Off Car
09/09: Depart Paris for LA


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## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

obelix said:


> (making sure to check the wiki first, lest you incur JSpira's wrath.)


 I got the "wrath" of JSpira and yes while he will tell you to "check the wiki" several times, he has also offered some very nice places to stop :thumbup:, favoring the Wachau region. My ED is Sept 1st so I too am looking for the "right spots" and perfect hotels/restaurants in Vienna, Salzburg and along the Danube, now that I have booked my airline tickets.


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## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

Can anyone tell me is it worth driving the Grossglockner? Have driven through numerous Italian mountains and know those can be dicey. Is the Grossglockner treacherous (will have a senior with me that I don't want getting sick on me)? How long does it take to traverse? Please rate on scale of 1-10, 10m being the best.


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

ViaPerturbatio said:


> Can anyone tell me is it worth driving the Grossglockner?


The Großglockner Hochalpenstraße is definitely something you should drive if you haven´t already.

It´s about 48 km long (if my recollection is correct) and ca. 2500 m high.

It´s worth spending time there as it´s in the Nationalpark Hohe Tauern. :thumbup:

The word breathtaking comes to mind.


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## Dwight_Schrute (Feb 20, 2009)

asaseaban said:


> Day 8 Visit winery, wine tasting,* tailor*


This is so OT but I've just gotta ask.... Are you getting a suit made? In Paris? A handmade suit from a French tailor? That's awesome! :thumbup: That's actually one of the items on my "Top 100 Things To Do Before I Die" list.... Although I would settle for Savile Row or even Strip Mall Row. Nicely done!....

I now release this thread from my vicious hijacking...


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

Though it's already been addressed, I'll dip my oar in the water to repeat that your plan to drive from Roma to Paris in a single day is way over-optimistic. 

Thumper: what turned you against Italian drivers? Once you understand the culture in any country, what you see on the highway makes perfect sense.


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## thumper_330 (Jan 3, 2009)

boothguy said:


> Thumper: what turned you against Italian drivers? Once you understand the culture in any country, what you see on the highway makes perfect sense.


LOL... nothing really. The one time I've driven through Europe I was just incredibly struck by the contrast between the drivers in central and Northern Europe, and then getting down into Italy, thing just suddenly change so radically. It's not helped by the fact that in Italy there are a lot of very narrow roads and people who drive like maniacs.

Of course, I'm not really one to talk; I'm from Northern Ireland originally and you get down and drive in the deep South of Ireland on some of those narrow roads, it might put you off driving for life


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## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

thumper_330 said:


> and then getting down into Italy, thing just suddenly change so radically. It's not helped by the fact that in Italy there are a lot of very narrow roads and people who drive like maniacs.


I believe the term is organized chaos. They are passionate drivers.


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## smalltown (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi

I would suggest watching Top Gear (series 10, episode 1). Here they go about searching for the 'World's Best Driving Road' and, coincidentally, find it near the itinerary you already have planned - if you're not already gone yet. 

BTW - I live in Rome, just moved here from the US and bought a 2001 330d for my driving exploits. FUUUUUUNNNNN. It is an absolutely beautiful city filled with amazing history and architecture. I highly recommend it. But it is pretty ambitious to do all you want to do - and do it right - in the time allotted. 

All the best on your trip.

st


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

smalltown said:


> Hi
> 
> BTW - *I live in Rome, just moved here from the US*


psss. - that is my retirement dream....


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

Well, here's my take on Italian drivers.

Every driver in Italy, be they male or female, young or old, rich or poor; is absolutely convinced they they, too, could drive for _Scuderia Ferrari_ in Formula 1 if only they could get a fair tryout. And they vent their frustration, demonstrating to all and sundry the raw deal they've gotten, every time they get behind the wheel. The more narrow the road, the steeper the grade, the more impossible the overtaking situation, the greater the urge to do something daring, and to do it _con brio_.

It's quite amazing that you don't come upon horrifying road accidents more often. When it does inevitably go wrong on the Autostrada, it goes REALLY wrong. And in typically Italian style, the cops simply shut down the whole road while they broom up the brains and eyeballs. The resulting miles of uninvolved traffic simply grinds to a halt and people turn off the motor and sleep, read, converse, stroll about and perhaps make their way to the nearest village for a refreshment if possible, knowing it's going to be somewhere between two and four hours before things get moving again.

Low-speed, non-injury crashes are another matter entirely, and clearly demonstrate the Italians' love of opera. Immediately following the crash, a crowd of eager spectators gathers. There's an opening aria by each involved driver and any passengers present, testing to see who appears to be the most aggrieved and can present their version of the crash the most dramatically.

Each driver's crowd approval rating is enhanced or diminished by various factors including their politics (as compared with the politics of the locality where the accident occurred), their appearance and their ability to hit and hold the really high notes. Bystanders enter the drama sporadically, taking one side or another, and then switching allegiances as the spirit moves them.

The eventual arrival of the local constabulary acts remarkably similarly to trying to snuff out a fire with a can of gasoline. After a big initial flare-up where everyone including people who just arrived, tries to tell their side of the story at once, the cops march someone off to the police station and the drowd gradually disperses, re-hashing the more entertaining moments from the drama just concluded.

Very Italian. Like I said, understand the culture and everything that happens on the roads makes complete sense.


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## ViaPerturbatio (Jul 25, 2009)

boothguy said:


> Well, here's my take on Italian drivers.


Boothguy,

Bravo!! Hilarious :rofl: Interestingly....by the very nature of your prosaic description of the operatic Italians oh and your Italian "subtitle", I'd have to cetainly venture you are one yourself ????? The truth is coming out.


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## thumper_330 (Jan 3, 2009)

boothguy said:


> Well, here's my take on Italian drivers. <snipped for brevity>


ROFL... epic. I couldn't have put it better, myself. My hat's off to you


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

I love Bruno Bozzetto cartoons


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## smalltown (Jul 23, 2009)

*brilliant*

That cartoon is brilliant...and spot on. So is the description of the driving.

st


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## JSpira (Oct 21, 2002)

MB330 said:


> I love Bruno Bozzetto cartoons


Ja, I posted this one here a few years back (worth posting again)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfG1HmlB9kI&feature=player_embedded


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

The longer Bruno Bozzetto cartoon is a long-time favorite - the two additional clips are great as well. Especially like the one of the two drivers fighting - could have been shot anywhere in the Napoli - Amalfi area.

I appreciate the kind comments, but am neither of Italian heritage nor married to someone who is. I've had Italian cars for a very long time and at least partly as a result have a great affinity for the place and people. The Spousal Unit and I have visited there a few times and have studied the language in order to enrich the experience. We'd visit every year if we could.

Watching the clips reminded me that parking in Italy can be an adventure on its own as well. Witness the person who parked their Ford product so impossibly close to my nice new E93 in Montepulciano (gentle-spirited Tuscany) in the pic below. Luckily, I was able to use Comfort Access to lower the top from outside the car and then climb in and back the car out.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

boothguy said:


> Watching the clips reminded me that parking in Italy can be an adventure on its own as well. Witness the person who parked their Ford product so impossibly close to my nice new E93 in Montepulciano (gentle-spirited Tuscany) in the pic below. Luckily, I was able to use Comfort Access to lower the top from outside the car and then climb in and back the car out.


Did you, at list, make all 4 tires flat on his car? :yikes:


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## boothguy (Feb 1, 2007)

Cooler heads (well, actually The Spousal Unit's one) prevailed and dissuaded me from leaving the offending driver a souvenir.


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## MB330 (Oct 18, 2005)

boothguy said:


> Cooler heads (well, actually The Spousal Unit's one) prevailed and dissuaded me from leaving the offending driver a souvenir.


I'm pretty sure my will be done the same. But some one has to teach bustard how to proper park his car.


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## Larry Cable (Aug 14, 2009)

use this site to plan and upload your route into the iDrive: http://www.bmw-routes.com/de/en/about/route-planning.jsp


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