# Need help! Mechanic recommends replacing DPF filters, $6300 service!!



## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

Looking for some help from the bimmerfest community! the BMW dealer recommended that I replace my DPF Filters which will cost $6300 (if serviced at dealership)! Below are the notes from the technician.

Can you guys/gals help me out with some advice? I read online that cleaning the filters first might be a good thing to do before replacing the filters.

CONFIRMED CHECK ENGINE LIGHT ON, CONNECTED BATTERY
CHARGER, RAN TEST PLAN, FOUND FAULTS 4D16 AND 4B91 IN
DDE, ST TIME-RAN TEST MODULES FOR FAULTS, WILL NEED TO
RECHECK VEHICLE WHEN COLD BEFORE FURTHER CHECKS-

RECHECKED WHEN COLD, FOUND SENSORS SHOW SIMILIAR
TEMPS, AS PER TEST PLAN, RECOMMEND DPF FILTERS AND
RECHECK-POSSIBLE FURTHER REPAIRS NEEDED FOR DPF AND
SCR SYSTEM, UNABLE TO SEE UNTIL DPF IS REPLACED​
I'm driving a 2010 BMW X5-Series xDrive35d AWD 4dr 35d with 81k miles. Thank you!


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

4D16 SCR system, efficiency
4B91 Oxidation catalytic converter, plausibility

Neither has anything to do with the DPF. Get a second opinion. Find a service center that is trustworthy. Trust AND verify.

The Test Plans come AFTER the DTC error codes!

Best wishes.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

Find another mechanic. Your car should not be needing a new DPF at 81k miles. My 2012 X5 35d is only at 214k miles and still has the original DPF.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

*Thanks Doug!*

Thanks for the info @Doug Huffman. I'm a total noob and was wondering if you could elaborate what you meant when you said this:



> The Test Plans come AFTER the DTC error codes!


Happy Saturday!



Doug Huffman said:


> 4D16 SCR system, efficiency
> 4B91 Oxidation catalytic converter, plausibility
> 
> Neither has anything to do with the DPF. Get a second opinion. Find a service center that is trustworthy. Trust AND verify.
> ...


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

*Thanks n1das!*



n1das said:


> Find another mechanic. Your car should not be needing a new DPF at 81k miles. My 2012 X5 35d is only at 214k miles and still has the original DPF.
> 
> Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


Thanks for the info @n1das. Damn, 214k miles and same DPF!? It sounds like my mechanic is trying to take me for a ride!


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

teamaviator said:


> Thanks for the info @n1das. Damn, 214k miles and same DPF!? It sounds like my mechanic is trying to take me for a ride!


He is, but maybe not intentionally. Find another mechanic, one that really KNOWS these cars.

Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## Doug Huffman (Apr 25, 2015)

teamaviator said:


> Thanks for the info @Doug Huffman. I'm a total noob and was wondering if you could elaborate what you meant when you said this:Happy Saturday!


A Diagnostic Trouble Code does not identify a broken part to be replaced but identifies a symptom that may be caused by any number of failed parts or adjustments to be differentiated by execution of a BMW Test Plan© guide through the fault tree. Consider that a DTC for a failed sensor may be caused by a broken connector meters away at the ECU.

It may be that both of your DTC errors are related to the SCR system that is fragile to NOx sensor issues - which may under extended warranty.


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## Michael47 (May 9, 2014)

Yeah, 81,000 miles is way too early to need a new DPF. But it is possible, I suppose. Just not very likely.


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## edycol (Jul 8, 2015)

teamaviator said:


> Looking for some help from the bimmerfest community! the BMW dealer recommended that I replace my DPF Filters which will cost $6300 (if serviced at dealership)! Below are the notes from the technician.
> 
> Can you guys/gals help me out with some advice? I read online that cleaning the filters first might be a good thing to do before replacing the filters.
> 
> ...


Do not allow them to throw your money at the problem. 4D16 and 81k are likely related to failing SCR cat. I had to change that one at 83k and it was $1425 with labor. 
But, it is tricky to identify it. My local BMW changed metering valve, both NOx sensors (at BMW expense) before SCR tank.
Failed DPF should manifest in loss of power and DPF warning. DPF has back pressure sensors that will identify when regeneration needs to occur and/or if there is too much ash in DPF so it needs to be changed or cleaned. 
Only way DPF could get clogged at 81k is if you used high SAPS oil recommended for gas engines.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

If DPF regenerations aren't happening for whatever reason, codes 480A and 481A will eventually be set. 480A is the first warning of a blocked DPF. 481A means the DPF is heavily blocked. Both codes inhibit regens until the cause of these codes has been addressed and the codes remain cleared.

Since these DPF codes aren't present, it suggests DPF isn't blocked by soot and regens are occurring like they should.

The DPF normally doesn't "go bad" or "wear out" from use. It slowly gets loaded up with ash left over from regenerations done to burn off soot that would plug up the DPF. Using high SAPS oil (the wrong oil) will load it up with ash faster than normal too. 

The DPF on big trucks are serviceable and get cleaned and reused. On cars they get replaced because of less labor required to swap it out than to remove, clean, and reinstall.

The car does NOT need a new DPF but needs a new mechanic.


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

Doug Huffman said:


> A Diagnostic Trouble Code does not identify a broken part to be replaced but identifies a symptom that may be caused by any number of failed parts or adjustments to be differentiated by execution of a BMW Test Plan© guide through the fault tree. Consider that a DTC for a failed sensor may be caused by a broken connector meters away at the ECU.
> 
> It may be that both of your DTC errors are related to the SCR system that is fragile to NOx sensor issues - which may under extended warranty.


Got it- I understand now. Thanks for the additional context Doug Huffman!

By the way, I started up my car this morning and the check engine light is not on anymore...


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

n1das said:


> He is, but maybe not intentionally. Find another mechanic, one that really KNOWS these cars.
> 
> Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


Copy that- i've been reaching out to more mechanics to get a 2nd opinion. Thanks for the advice. By the way, I started up my car this AM and the check engine light is not on anymore.


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

Michael47 said:


> Yeah, 81,000 miles is way too early to need a new DPF. But it is possible, I suppose. Just not very likely.


That seems to be the common theme from responses in this thread. Thank you for the note!


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

edycol said:


> Do not allow them to throw your money at the problem. 4D16 and 81k are likely related to failing SCR cat. I had to change that one at 83k and it was $1425 with labor.
> But, it is tricky to identify it. My local BMW changed metering valve, both NOx sensors (at BMW expense) before SCR tank.
> Failed DPF should manifest in loss of power and DPF warning. DPF has back pressure sensors that will identify when regeneration needs to occur and/or if there is too much ash in DPF so it needs to be changed or cleaned.
> Only way DPF could get clogged at 81k is if you used high SAPS oil recommended for gas engines.
> ...


thanks for the comment edycol- i'm going to provide your note to a mechanic when I bring it in for a 2nd opinion. also, i started up my rig this morning and the check engine light is no longer on...


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

n1das said:


> If DPF regenerations aren't happening for whatever reason, codes 480A and 481A will eventually be set. 480A is the first warning of a blocked DPF. 481A means the DPF is heavily blocked. Both codes inhibit regens until the cause of these codes has been addressed and the codes remain cleared.
> 
> Since these DPF codes aren't present, it suggests DPF isn't blocked by soot and regens are occurring like they should.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the additional info n1das- it is smelling more like the issue might be a failing SCR cat rather than dpf issues.


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## n1das (Jul 22, 2013)

teamaviator said:


> Thanks for the additional info n1das- it is smelling more like the issue might be a failing SCR cat rather than dpf issues.


More likely failing NOx sensors than a failing SCR cat. They are essentially a maintenance item. The sensors "age" and their output slowly drops as the miles accumulate. Eventually SCR related code(s) start being thrown (4D16). The (expensive) SCR cat should not be suspected yet until after both NOx sensors are replaced first.

Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


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## teamaviator (May 11, 2019)

n1das said:


> More likely failing NOx sensors than a failing SCR cat. They are essentially a maintenance item. The sensors "age" and their output slowly drops as the miles accumulate. Eventually SCR related code(s) start being thrown (4D16). The (expensive) SCR cat should not be suspected yet until after both NOx sensors are replaced first.
> 
> Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk


Hey *n1das*, question for you: a few weeks ago when BMW dealership told me that I needed to replace the DPF, the code that I pulled when my check engine light was: *P20EE* _(SCR nox Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1)_.

Shortly after you and the other awesome people in this forum gave me information/advice, my check engine light turned off.

Today the check engine light flipped back on and I ran diagnostic and got the code: *P0420* _(CATALYST SYSTEM EFFICIENCY BELOW THRESHOLD BANK 1)_.

In your opinion, does this still sound like it may be sensors failing? Or do you think I may actually have a failing SCR cat? I'm going to ask a couple other people on this thread as well. Thank you!!


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Hard to say just guessing with these codes.

You need to understand that the BMW test system has procedures that will run, and will perturb the set points of different systems to try and elicit behaviors- it uses this info to get better diagnostics. So not just OBD codes and guesses, but much more specifc.

This can be the BMW ISTA system or other systems like snapon, etc. It does NOT need to be a BMW dealer.

You need a shop that can work on BMW diesels. Not just a 'euro shop'.

I had a 4D16 on my 2010. ton or work later I lemoned it in 2011. 2 nox sensors and a SCR cat to start.... But hey, thta was at the very early end of a steep and painful BMW diesel learning curve. 


Oh, finally. DO NOT get hung up over the light turning on and off. You may have an issue that is 'on the edge'...comes and goes. But the code will be in memory, and diagnostic tests should still work. I dont think it is the DPF. Hate to spend $6300 and then another 5k with that first thief as he guesses his way through the repair with your wallet.

GL


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## glangford (Dec 11, 2013)

teamaviator said:


> Hey *n1das*, question for you: a few weeks ago when BMW dealership told me that I needed to replace the DPF, the code that I pulled when my check engine light was: *P20EE* _(SCR nox Catalyst Efficiency Below Threshold Bank 1)_.
> 
> Shortly after you and the other awesome people in this forum gave me information/advice, my check engine light turned off.
> 
> ...


I just had my NOx sensors replaced under warranty. BMW extended the warranty to 10 years 100,000 miles for though. That behavior of coming on and off was what the tech told me was indicative of failing NOx sensors.


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## montr (Oct 7, 2006)

I had the 4d16 code. Here is the sequence of events to get this resolved:
1) Dealer clean DEF injector valve and clear code. Code reappears 1 week later
2) Dealer replace the 2 NoX sensors under extended warranty and reset adaptation (New sensors are less prone to contamination). Code reappears 2 weeks later.
3) I order a new DEF injection valve (Rock Auto, BOSCH 0444021013) and replace myself. I did reset the DEF adaptation with my NT510 can tool and drove for about 30 minutes. Per BMW SIB, adaptation needs to be reset when changing components in the DEF systems.

It is now 5 weeks later, I did not get the 4D16 code again.

BMW 335D 2010 115K miles


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## wvadam (Jan 31, 2017)

Hey all, don't own a diesel yet but its on the top of my list for next BMW. What do people think about the DPF cleaning kit from liquimoly on ecs tuning? Someone mentioned big trucks getting theirs cleaned at intervals, it seems preferable to the $5k replacement.










https://www.ecstuning.com/b-liqui_m...rticulate-filter-dpf-cleaning-kit/lmdpfclekt/


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## Markst (Apr 3, 2018)

Doug Huffman said:


> Yet. Developmental research and legislation are in progress. There will be spark ignition particulate filters sooner than later.


 They exist already, OPFs
https://drivetribe.com/p/the-opf-pandoras-box-for-many-petrolheads-Bm-gdk1XSxe-XzbN8VUqEQ


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## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

OP, please give us an update.


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## karako4ev (Nov 7, 2019)

The EGR and DPF system is pain to be honest. I have done the carbon clean up, I had to weld the EGR cooler back together because it cracked and now the DEF tank is next which I dont think I will do since car is running fine for now. I have a 2011 335d and it's fun but way too much time repairing it. It is a headache, I dont think I will buy another diesel after this one


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## finnbmw (Jul 6, 2008)

DPF failed on our 2012 X5 at around 70,000 miles. BMW replaced the DPF free of charge as a goodwill gesture. Very pleased.


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## subdude (Apr 11, 2013)

Doug Huffman said:


> A Diagnostic Trouble Code does not identify a broken part to be replaced but identifies a symptom that may be caused by any number of failed parts or adjustments to be differentiated by execution of a BMW Test Plan© guide through the fault tree. Consider that a DTC for a failed sensor may be caused by a broken connector meters away at the ECU.
> 
> It may be that both of your DTC errors are related to the SCR system that is fragile to NOx sensor issues - which may under extended warranty.


I could not agree more with this statement!


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