# Going nuts trying to choose a detailing product



## C-Bear (Jun 27, 2002)

Coming up on time for my new 330's first detailing, which I will do myself by hand, and I'm having a very difficult time deciding on a brand of detailing products.

When I owned my Honda, basic Meguiar's off-the-shelf products were fine. Now that I've stepped up in vehicles, I'd like to step up in waxes, too.

I've run extensive searches, visited sites, and read about Zaino (sounds like a lot of work), Zymol ($$$), Klasse, Griot's, etc., 'till it's coming out my ears — and I still feel no closer to a satisfying decision.

Any advice on a top-quality detailing system (for both the exterior an interior of my car) that isn't going to cost a fortune or take unreasonable amount of time to apply alone?


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## Guest84 (Dec 21, 2001)

First, ask yourself a few questions:

Does the car sit outside the garage at home or is in extreme elements (like the Northern states, with snow, salted roads etc)?

If so, go with a Polymer wax, it lasts longer.

If you don't mind applying wax 2-3 times a year, go with a Carnauba wax.

Griots has a "starter" kit for $59.00 includes claybar and wax. It has everything you need to get started. The only thing I would add to this is the Fine Hand polish, you'll need it eventually as all cars get swirl marks eventually.

*Click here to see the starter kit.*


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## cwpa (May 30, 2002)

*Which polymer wax?*

Can you recommend a polymer wax?


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## johnlew (Dec 25, 2001)

Rip, or anyone, is there a polish you would recommend that I could find in an auto parts store that would be the equivalent to Griot's machine #2?


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

I really like Klasse. Easy on and off and longlasting shine.


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## Nat Brown (Dec 29, 2001)

C-Bear said:


> *I've run extensive searches, visited sites, and read about Zaino (sounds like a lot of work), Zymol ($$$), Klasse, Griot's, etc., 'till it's coming out my ears - and I still feel no closer to a satisfying decision.
> 
> Any advice on a top-quality detailing system (for both the exterior an interior of my car) that isn't going to cost a fortune or take unreasonable amount of time to apply alone? *


I've done carnauba wax and I've done polymer. Carnauba wax may seem simple and quick, compared to polymer, but there are just as many steps to do it properly. You've got the clay bar, which is really the ONLY way to clean paint and remove pollutants. That's followed by a glaze, which fills in micro-scratches and provides a smooth surface (as long as you've used your clay). The glaze is followed up by a coat or two of wax for protection. Some people skip all the previous steps and jump right to wax, which I suppose is fine if you aren't too particular about how your car looks.

Polymer systems, like Zaino, have just as many steps, actually take less work, and last 2-3 times longer than conventional wax. Conventional wax melts under the sun and generally wears off each time you wash it. This doesn't happen (as much) with polymer. A coat of polymer will last you 6-12 months easy, is immune to the melting process, and actually saves you time when you add everything up.

Anyway, I wrote an article about Zaino that explains some of the misconceptions: 
The Truth About Zaino

Good luck deciding!

--gary


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## cwpa (May 30, 2002)

*What about Klasse on vinyl trim?*

Will Klasse stain or discolor black or dull the exterior vinyl trim?


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## JPinTO (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: What about Klasse on vinyl trim?*



cwpa said:


> *Will Klasse stain or discolor black or dull the exterior vinyl trim? *


Nope! Just smear it on the black vinyl, windows--- everything. No residue!


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## eugeneDC/TX (Jan 14, 2002)

i have many many products. i've tried a lot of things. i have to say. rip is right. you have to think about some factors in your situation. is your car outside mostly? how much time do you have to detail? in the beginning it will take a while no matter what system you use as you have to learn. polymer systems will take a few applications as most polymers are better layered (then topped with carnauba!!). same as carnauba systems. layering (after proper cure time) wax is a good thing. now after all this, it's a crap shoot. you buy something you try it. if you like it keep with it. if you dont try somethign else when you run out. if you like it but want to see if the other (polymer vs. carnauba) works better try it. i know this doesnt really help you pick one system but it's def the way to go. you have to try. that's half the fun of detailing. granted it's not nice on the wallet. but these products go a long ways and you dont have to trash unused portions. you can always go back to it... good luck


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## unleasHell (Mar 25, 2002)

*This first part I just posted here on another thread:*

First off, I am also in So. Cal. my car (2002 330i) is Steel Grey and after reading countless articles and comparisons I opted for Klasse. Simply put (the AIO) is the EASIEST wax I have ever used. No need to let it dry, just rub it in and rub it off. I followed the instructions listed at the Classic Motoring Accessories site.

Also I put Klasse on my car when it was only about 2 months old, I wanted to do it before it needed clay-baring. I put two coats of the SG on the top, hood, and trunk, but put only one coat on the sides. To tell ya the truth, I could NOT tell the difference between one & two coats..

Zaino is very expensive (as I recall, never bought it) but you can get a sample kit of Klass for under $16 including shipping here:

http://www.yosteveshop.homestead.com/klassekit.html

As far as the other detailing products: I use the 303 on most all of the interior that is not Leather. I use Lexol Cleaner and /or Conditioner on the Leather. I use Eagle One Wet, Wipe and Shine as a quick detailer (cleaner) over my Klasse. I use Eagle One Wet Tire on tires. Turle Wax (Acid Free) Wheel Cleaner. And a Mothers Product for all the black outside trim (sorry I forgot the exact name).


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## Intermezzo (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: This first part I just posted here on another thread:*



unleasHell said:


> *Zaino is very expensive (as I recall, never bought it) but you can get a sample kit of Klass for under $16 including shipping here: *


Zaino is not very expensive compared to the Klasse twins.

AIO costs $1.43 per ounce and Z-2 costs 1.62$. Is that a significant difference? For some, yes. For others, no. If cost is truly an issue, then you're better off getting Meguiar's #20. It's a poly-sealant product that will easily outlast KAIO at about 65% of the cost. Plus, you can get it locally from PepBoys.

BTW, Rip, you only wax 2-3 times a year? That's amazing durability for a wax! :thumbup:


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## unleasHell (Mar 25, 2002)

well Cost was not my determining factor, I was looking for 
1) Ease of use
2) Length (of Time) that the Product will Stay On

I am not sure where you got your costs, but if you buy the 33oz AOI here:

http://klassedirect.com/index.html

the cost is only .85cents per oz....


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## Intermezzo (Mar 22, 2002)

Well, if you buy in bulk, then of course it's going to be a little cheaper. Unless you're a professional detailer, it wouldn't be practical to buy so much AIO. For an abrasive product like AIO, you wouldn't want to use it more than 2 or 3 times a year. 

I just wanted to dispel the notion that Zaino is significantly more expensive than other boutique detailing products. We're talking Zaino, not Zymol.

I've used both Zaino and Klasse. In terms of ease of use, you can't compare AIO with Zaino, b/c one is an abrasive paint cleaner with a little protective ability and the other is a non-abrasive paint protectant. If you compare AIO with other polishes like Pinnacle PCL or P21S PCL, I give the nod to the PCLs. A better comparison would be KSG vs. Z-2/Z-5. Actually, this isn't really much of a comparison. The Z products are much easier to work with.


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## unleasHell (Mar 25, 2002)

I have read most all the arguments that have gone on in here and other sites and I will concede that (only from what I have read) Zaino is better (happy now?). 

Zaino users seem to get very agurmentative to prove they are right and that their product is the best, so I will also concede you are right, it is the superior product.

Now, is buying 33oz considered "bulk"? Certainly it is twice the size of the basic 16oz size, but at $28, I did not feel I was buying in "bulk" and I made a mistake it is only .85oz, so Zaino is nearly twice the price! 

Plus the Klasse SG in the same size is $35 (or $1.06/oz).

What is the size of the Zaino bottle that goes for $1.62/oz? And What other Zaino products do you have to use with it? I suspect that it is much more expesive to use...

Also You say QUOTE " In terms of ease of use, you can't compare AIO with Zaino, b/c one is an abrasive paint cleaner with a little protective ability and the other is a non-abrasive paint protectant. "

Huh? I could compare a rock with a can of worms... So I have no idea why that is such a HUGE leap for you... Besides how does the amount of abrasives it has in it relate to "ease of use"? Now if you were comparing the contents, your abrasive comments would fit. But Ease of Use to ME means how EASY it is to apply and take off, right?

The fact is Klasse AIO has VERY VERY little abrasives in it, so little that they say you can dillute it and use it as a QD. So little that they say to add it in with your Car Wash. Man you're acting like it's polishing compound (lol).

And getting back yo EASE OF USE, I will say again, What is easier than appying AIO (with a semi-wet applicator) and then IMMEDIATELY whipping it off with a Micro fiber towel (before it even dries)????? I can't imagine any wax being easier unless it comes with a bikini model that removes the wax for you...

(ok your turn...)


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## beauport (Jul 2, 2002)

Imagine if this thread was to choose a heart surgeon between some couple highly competitive doctors instead of what we're using to wax our cars with...................
Fortunately if the wax isn't quite up to snuff or costs just a tad more than the competition both you and and car will live to see another day of detailing. It ain't exactly like once the product is chosen you can't change your mind in the future. I use Zaino btw.


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## Intermezzo (Mar 22, 2002)

Holy Flamebait. Wow, I didn't know I'd get such a strong spirited response from you. Listen, as I stated in my previous posts, all I wanted to say is that Zaino is not as expensive as some ppl make it out to be. Also, I have respect for every person here and I'm disappointed that you make me out to be a typical argumentative "Zaino user" while you post a sarcastic argumentative message yourself (am I the zealot here?). If you felt that I came across a bit too strongly in my previous posts, I apologize. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

I'll address each of your points individually, but let's keep this civil and leave the flaming to others (namely, PPL that know Zaino and only Zaino and love nothing but Zaino). Agreed?



unleasHell said:


> *I have read most all the arguments that have gone on in here and other sites and I will concede that (only from what I have read) Zaino is better (happy now?).
> *


I wasn't trying to argue that Zaino is better than Klasse. You're missing my original point.



unleasHell said:


> *Zaino users seem to get very agurmentative to prove they are right and that their product is the best, so I will also concede you are right, it is the superior product.
> *


I agree, Zaino users DO get argumentative, but so do ppl from all product lines. I certainly wouldn't want things to get that way between you and me though.



unleasHell said:


> *Now, is buying 33oz considered "bulk"? Certainly it is twice the size of the basic 16oz size, but at $28, I did not feel I was buying in "bulk" and I made a mistake it is only .85oz, so Zaino is nearly twice the price! *


Hmmm, 33oz. Just out of curiousity, how many times a year do you apply Kasse AIO to your car? And also, did you buy the 33oz bottle? I have a 16 ounce bottle that I've been using continuously for over two years and it's still 3/4ths full and I've given away a few 1 ounce samples of it too. Each application on a midsized sedan should only take half an ounce. 33 ounces just doesn't work for me....that's all. I would much rather get 33 ounces of their sealant glaze.



unleasHell said:


> *Plus the Klasse SG in the same size is $35 (or $1.06/oz).
> *


That's a good deal.



unleasHell said:


> *What is the size of the Zaino bottle that goes for $1.62/oz? And What other Zaino products do you have to use with it? I suspect that it is much more expesive to use...*


8 ounces.

I know I initially compared the price per ounce of Zaino with Klasse. Yes, Klasse is a bit cheaper than Zaino, there's no denying that....but I just don't think that Zaino is very expensive. It does get expensive when you throw ZFX into the mix (excuse the pun), but with ZFX, we're talking about a whole new ballgame. It allows for things that go way above and beyond KSG and unmixed Zaino.



unleasHell said:


> *Also You say QUOTE " In terms of ease of use, you can't compare AIO with Zaino, b/c one is an abrasive paint cleaner with a little protective ability and the other is a non-abrasive paint protectant. " *


That's right and I stand by that statement. Not b/c I think KAIO is much easier to use, but b/c that's honestly how I would categorize those products. In fact, if you really want me to compare the two, I would say that KAIO is only marginally easier to use than Zaino.



unleasHell said:


> *Huh? I could compare a rock with a can of worms... So I have no idea why that is such a HUGE leap for you... Besides how does the amount of abrasives it has in it relate to "ease of use"? Now if you were comparing the contents, your abrasive comments would fit. But Ease of Use to ME means how EASY it is to apply and take off, right? *


I sorta get your drift here.... But I never said that the abrasive content of a product plays a role in its ease of use. In fact, the abrasive content of a product has very little to do with a product's ease of use. Also, I can make a comparison between AIO and Z-2....sure, it's not that great of a leap at all. I'm just saying that AIO (despite what ppl who try to market and sell the product say) is more of a paint-prep type of product and less of a protectant, like KSG or Zaino. It has no prayer of lasting 6 months the way CMA claims it does. I agree with your last sentence...ease of use is ease of use.



unleasHell said:


> *The fact is Klasse AIO has VERY VERY little abrasives in it, so little that they say you can dillute it and use it as a QD. So little that they say to add it in with your Car Wash. Man you're acting like it's polishing compound (lol). *


I know it has very little abrasives in it, but it still has a decent amount. Why don't you re-read my original post. What products do I compare it to?? That's right! PPCL and P21S GEPC....both of which contain a small amount of abrasives. But it still does contain abrasives. Try appying some to a CD (maybe those AOL CD's we all get in the mail), buff it out, and then clean it with Alcohol and tell me what you see. Tada! marring! Why do you think ppl report being able to remove oxidation and restoration of very neglected paint with AIO? This is also one of my original points....it's a very different product than KSG and Z-2.



unleasHell said:


> *And getting back yo EASE OF USE, I will say again, What is easier than appying AIO (with a semi-wet applicator) and then IMMEDIATELY whipping it off with a Micro fiber towel (before it even dries)????? I can't imagine any wax being easier unless it comes with a bikini model that removes the wax for you...
> *


Well, since you ask, I'll tell you.

Waxes easier to use than AIO (yes, even without the bikini model):
Pinnacle Souveran
Pinnacle Paste Glaze
Pinnacle Creme Glaze
P21S Carnauba (or S100 Carnauba)
TOL Trade Secret

Waxes just as easy to use as AIO:
Blackfire
Liquid Souveran

Polishes easier to use than AIO:
P21S GEPC
PPCL

Every single one of these products I've just listed are also like AIO in the sense that there is no dry-time. Just apply and immediately buff out.

Don't get me wrong, Klasse is an excellent product line and I've been using it for years and plan to continue using it indefinitely. I'm not trying to argue for product XYZ and against product ABC the way you seem to think I am. I 'm a fan of both Klasse AND Zaino. Do a search on some of the posts I've done about Klasse and you might agree. I just feel that products like PPCL and P21S GEPC are more suitable comparisons with AIO. And although Zaino is a little more expensive than Klasse, I don't think that the cost is prohibitive at all when compared to most other boutique detailing products.


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## unleasHell (Mar 25, 2002)

*great post*

I mean it, you countered my points with good clarification. And since I have ONLY used Klasse, I yeild to your expertise with the other waxes.

I guess I was in an argumentive mood that day (after doing battle at the NBA Forum I also frequent) but after a day in Mexico (yesterday) I've mellowed so sorry if I pushed you a bit...

I'm not a wax fanatic, I'm either too lazy or too busy to try every wax out there and I'm happy with Klasse and (seemingly have a LIFETIME supply) so I will continue to use it.

But I still have a small issue that I have not yet been able to prove out, the longevity of the Klasse, having only had it on 3 months. BUT, AIO is supposed to last about 6 months and with a few coats of SG, it is supposed to be extended out to 12 months.

Now if I keep my car washed, do nightly dustings, nightly QD (removing contaminents), cover it and keep it in the Garage, I hope I can get by with only waxing once a year, time will tell...

Still freinds buddy?


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## Intermezzo (Mar 22, 2002)

Aww man, now you're making me feel guilty. I guess the timing of my post was pretty bad. I apologize if my posts rubbed you the wrong way. Of course, still friends!

I see you are in So Cal like me. Too bad we're getting some rain this morning. I spent several hours over the weekend detailing both my wife's and my cars!

The consensus over at Autopia for Klasse SG's longevity seems to be around 6 months..... but there are some that believe it'll last a year and are actually speaking from experience. You sound like you maintain your car pretty well, so I'd say your Klasse layers have a pretty good chance of lasting a year. I'd like to hear how it goes.


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## unleasHell (Mar 25, 2002)

*same here too.*

I did my car sat.

my wifes 4 Runner yesterday

heavy mist on the way to work today.

I have had my car since March 31 and it STILL has not yet been rained on...


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## Mike M (Aug 22, 2002)

I watched a comparrison done by A and M Motor Sport at a car show, using Zymol, Zaino, Mothers ,3M and others and P21S on a black BMW M3 then a Red one. and P21S gave the best results hands down. It is German made and is recommended by Most German manufacturers in Europe to include BMW. Go to www.aandmmotorsport.com, They carry a number of products to include Zymol and the others but I will tell you that for our cars P21S gives the best shine and protection, and is easy to put on and not very expensive.


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