# Just drove a CTS-V



## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Short version: A thunderingly fast, amazingly competent sports sedan with a few minor flaws. Anyone who buys an E60 530i for the same money is a ****ing idiot. 

Somewhat longer version: 

The interior of the CTS-V is pretty well executed. The gauges are large and very legible, and the controls for the radio/climate control are very intuitive and easy to use. Kudos, for example, for including a large volume knob and large tuning knob for the radio. 

Little details are also well done. There are two stalks, like in European and Japanese cars, and they feel solid and precise--a far cry from the ancillary controls that GM use to employ, which felt brittle and cheap. There is a wealth of electronic information available, including the individual tire pressures of all four tires (like the E55), an electronic g-meter, and an electronic digital speedometer (in addition to the analog display). 

There are some missteps. The parking brake, in the grand American tradition, is foot pedal operated, for some reason. The steering wheel doesn't telescope. It's hard to describe, but the ignition key/lock retains ghosts of the old GM interior feel, which isn't a good thing. And the interior plastic is not as nice as that found in the E39 or E46, though it is just as good (if not better) than the crap BMW is putting in the E60/65/63. 

The seats are acceptable. Side bolstering is not as aggressive as I might like, though they are probably about as good as the non-adjustable seats I have in my E46. The Alcantara center section looks nice, and provides a sticky surface that holds you better than the slick Nappa in the M3. 

What's the drive like? 

Pulling away, the first thing you notice is the steering, which is quite light at low speeds. The steering wheel rim is thinner than the fat boy in the M3, but is actually probably about the right thickness. The engine is quiet and docile at idle, and the clutch takeup is surprisingly smooth and light for a driveline this powerful. There is some driveline snatch,* of a kind that will be familiar to M3 and M5 drivers, but if you concentrate a bit you can smooth your inputs and make it go away. 

As the traffic opens, and you can give the engine its head, you realize that the LS6 is the dominating feature of this car. It has torque in a bottomless, inexhaustible stream, and as the engine gains revs it issues an unmistakable, hammering V8 cacophony. I've gotta say that I love the way that high performance American V8s sound, because no matter how much power they produce, they all retain a little bit of that industrial backbeat that calls to mind Woodward in its glory days. 

And this car is very, very fast. It adds speed effortlessly, the way a buggy pulled by a Clydesdale on a cocaine binge might. But that's missing the point a bit, because it feels much more relaxed than the M3 does--the M3 is wound tight, whereas the CTS-V is rangy and loping. I can't speak to the axle tramp question, because I didn't push it hard from a standing start, but in everyday driving it handles the power with aplomb. 

Throw it into a curve, and you can feel the weight. This car is clearly bigger than the E46, and it's agility suffers a bit for it. The steering firms up at speed, and while it remains lighter than the M3, it's no less communicative. Hitting a mid-corner bump reveals the stiffness of the damping, brought about in part by the F1 Supercar EMT tires; while the ride is generally very good and very smooth, sharp impacts can be transmitted through the chassis quite directly. 

The shifter is workmanlike, but no one is ever going to write sonnets about it. It's a bit vague, and the dreaded Skip Shift feature rears its head when you are puttering about. It's fairly easy to override, but disconnecting it (if that can still be done) would be the first thing I would do when I got the car home. The shift throws are about average, and the gate is reasonably well laid out, though 6th is way over to the right. Oddly, reverse is up and to the right. 

In terms of the overall driving gestalt, it's a bit unfair to compare this car to an E46. It's a bigger car, and its extra space and avoirdupois dictate that it will never have quite the same directness as the M3. It's much better to compare it to an M5, and here the CTS-V acquits itself very well. The things that the M5 does better than the CTS-V are...well, I suspect that there may be some, but I can't think of any at the moment. Wait, here's one: It impresses badge snobs better. Other than that, the CTS-V has the measure of the E39 M5. 

And this is the really good bit: It does all of that for right about $50K. And that includes all manner of doo-dads that are either optional or not available on the E39 (or E60), such as nav, the electronic info center (transmission oil temp/g force gauge/tire pressure), XM radio, auto wipers, heated seats, OnStar, etc. etc. Like the Acura TL, the Cadillac comes loaded, and GM doesn't try and nickel and dime you to death with stupid option prices. I suppose that if you are looking for a stripped down club racer this is a bad thing, but if you are looking for a stripped down club racer and you are thinking either M5 or CTS-V you should have your head examined. For the type of driving this car is going to do, the options are nice to have. 

Comparing the CTS-V to a 400 hp M5 makes sense. Comparing it to the BMW you can actually buy for the same money (a moderately well equipped 530) is just stupid. The Cadillac has 175 more hp, a performance advantage that makes the BMW look laughably slow and overpriced, and comes with a vast range of additional equipment. It also (to me) looks better, though the very worst you can say about the styling of the Cadillac is that even if you dislike it, it's honestly no more polarizing than Bangle's bull****. 

In the end, the only relevant question is whether, having driven a CTS-V, I would buy one. The answer is unequivocally yes. The minor flaws are meaningless compared to the impressive package that Cadillac has put together. Because the M3 is smaller and lighter, I'm not impressed *enough* with the Cadillac to end the lease on my M early. But when it's time for the M3 to go back, the CTS-V is going to be the first car on my shopping list. 


________ 
* Heh heh. He said "snatch."


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

How did you get to do that? Are they here already?


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## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

JST said:


> As the traffic opens, and you can give the engine its head,


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Great write-up, sounds like a winner there :thumbup:


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

Very nice write-up. I've been keeping my eye on this car for a while. They've got them at the dealer near my office in Vienna. Definitely worth inquiring to see if GM Family pricing is available. 

Curious... what is "dreaded Skip Shift feature" ?


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

atyclb said:


>


It's a truly, uh, "interactive" driving experience.


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

jw said:


> Very nice write-up. I've been keeping my eye on this car for a while. They've got them at the dealer near my office in Vienna. Definitely worth inquiring to see if GM Family pricing is available.
> 
> Curious... what is "dreaded Skip Shift feature" ?


At low speeds and moderate throttle, when you shift from 1st to 2nd, the transmission guides the car into 4th instead. The idea is that the V8 has enough torque to handle this, and doing so keeps the gas mileage up. Corvettes (and F-bodies, I think) have had this for some time.


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

JST said:


> At low speeds and moderate throttle, when you shift from 1st to 2nd, the transmission guides the car into 4th instead. The idea is that the V8 has enough torque to handle this, and doing so keeps the gas mileage up. Corvettes (and F-bodies, I think) have had this for some time.


Is this something that's a feature? Or is it pilot error?

n/m .. just :google: 'd


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

jw said:


> Is this something that's a feature? Or is it pilot error?
> 
> n/m .. just :google: 'd


When they originally engineered this on the Vette, it had to do with keeping GMs average non-truck mpg up over the minimums, or sumpthin' like that...

Alex


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## vexed (Dec 22, 2001)

jw said:


> Definitely worth inquiring to see if GM Family pricing is available.


It is:eeps: But there are tighter restrictions on how long you have to keep it. I checked the family price on line, let's just say it is very attractive.


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## elbert (Mar 28, 2002)

No 24 hour test drive for this car? 

And to think, from the factory, that LS6 is probably under-tuned well below its potential.


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## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

BahnBaum said:


> When they originally engineered this on the Vette, it had to do with keeping GMs average non-truck mpg up over the minimums, or sumpthin' like that...
> 
> Alex


 For ages, GM has had a standing policy that they wouldn't release a car subject to gas guzzler.


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## London Talking (Mar 1, 2003)

Nice write up, but it is IMHO surely one of the pig ugliest cars ever made, it even makes the new 5 Series seem like a looker....










: puke:

I would rather walk. Seriously


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## ·clyde· (Dec 26, 2001)

London Talking said:


> Nice write up, but it is IMHO surely one of the pig ugliest cars ever made, it even makes the new 5 Series seem like a looker....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 No. The only ugly thing about it is the chrome mesh grill.


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## ed325i (Dec 20, 2001)

The CTS-V looks OK. I would rate its attractiveness as being somewhere between the 7 and the 5 series.

Ed


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Actually, I find the whole damn package to be very sexy, grille and all. But I seem to be in the minority. I can't wait to see these on the streets; since JST managed to drive one, it waon't be long. The next step will be to find a rich friend to mooch test drives. 

Cadillac is coming on very strong right now, and I wish I could afford to support their efforts because I love where they're going. CTSs are fairly common around here now, and the SRX is making its rounds as well -- what an attractive wagon/SUV thing. I saw my first XLR in public yesterday, and it was DEAD SEXY. I would love to own any of these cars.


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## tgravo2 (Dec 7, 2002)

I saw it at a car show and fell in love with the car. Interior is nice with alcantra in the seats. It just looks like a blast to drive


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## PhilH (Jun 7, 2002)

Sorry, but it's too ugly, inside and out. I don't care how it drives. I wish it were slower, because I'll never buy one.


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## Guest (Mar 27, 2004)

Honestly, I think it's infintely more attractive than an E60 or E65.


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## SONET (Mar 1, 2002)

Nice write-up. I saw one of these on the freeway a few days ago, and as much as I tried not to like it I had to admit... it looked great. Very well-executed GM, glad to see them going in the right direction. I'd like to take one for a spin one of these days.

--SONET


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

jw said:


> Just came back from a quick trip to the dealer. They had a black one I checked out. Didn't have enough time for a test drive, but picked up a brochure and asked a few questions.
> 
> 1) Dealer was adament that there is no GM pricing for this car - family or supplier.
> 2) No residuals or MF quotes at the moment.
> ...


No waiting where I went, AFAIK. They seemed ready to sell it to me Saturday. My saleswoman also was talking about their trip to Summit Point. Sounds like a pretty kick ass time.


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

JST said:


> No waiting where I went, AFAIK. They seemed ready to sell it to me Saturday. My saleswoman also was talking about their trip to Summit Point. Sounds like a pretty kick ass time.


Where did you go? Moore was just down the street from my office so I checked there.

Saw this online...

1, (1), Max Angelelli,Monte Carlo,Monaco, Cadillac CTS-V, 20.
2, (3), Andy Pilgrim,Delray Beach,Fla., Cadillac CTS-V, 20, -.358.
3, (7), Michael Galati, N.Olmsted,Ohio, Audi RS 6 Comp, 20, -4.192.
4, (5), Tommy Archer,Duluth,Minn., Viper CompCoupe, 20, -6.618.
5, (4), Phil McClure,Floris,Iowa, Corvette Z06, 20, -28.005.

ANGELELLI, PILGRIM AND TEAM CADILLAC MAKE AN IMPRESSIVE SPEED GT DEBUT WITH ONE-TWO FINISH AT SEBRING - http://www.world-challenge.com/news/04press55.html


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

jw said:


> Where did you go? Moore was just down the street from my office so I checked there.
> 
> Saw this online...
> 
> ...


Lindsay.


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

JST said:


> Lindsay.


I hate friggin dealers. Just did a google and found a number of people that have picked up CTS-V's w/ GMS pricing.

Think I'll call Lindsay tomorrow.


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## swchang (Oct 5, 2003)

jw said:


> I hate friggin dealers. Just did a google and found a number of people that have picked up CTS-V's w/ GMS pricing.
> 
> Think I'll call Lindsay tomorrow.


Are you pretty serious about buying? Are you leaving the BMW fold? *gasp*


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## Jetfire (Jun 20, 2002)

Wow, a 1-2 finish for the CTS crew! :thumbup:


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

swchang said:


> Are you pretty serious about buying? Are you leaving the BMW fold? *gasp*


My current '01 330i lease is up in a few months. Not thrilled w/ idea of another E46 (unless M3) and might go for a new 5er. But definitely keeping my options open until the E90 debuts.


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## Thertorch (Mar 10, 2004)

Jetfire said:


> Wow, a 1-2 finish for the CTS crew! :thumbup:


Er, about that 1-2 finish. Cadillac is an official sponsor of this SCCA division *cough*. 
The CTS-V seemed to have about a 55 hp advantage over the Z06 Vettes, and every other car for that matter. They were able to improve the weight balance of the vehicle by moving the engine back, somewhat more then would be normal for this race. Andy Pilgrim, in the no. 2 car, apparently died at the start, but was able to make up the entire field to place second. The in-car camera in Angelelli's recorded that he wasn't even using the throttle coming out of some of the turns....or down some of the straights.

Nice for Cadillac to get the win, go team! But I would think that the results are a one time deal and that the SCCA will impose some rather severe weight penalty's on these cars to keep the races competitive. At least I hope they do.


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

Thertorch said:


> Er, about that 1-2 finish. Cadillac is an official sponsor of this SCCA division *cough*.
> The CTS-V seemed to have about a 55 hp advantage over the Z06 Vettes, and every other car for that matter. They were able to improve the weight balance of the vehicle by moving the engine back, somewhat more then would be normal for this race. Andy Pilgrim, in the no. 2 car, apparently died at the start, but was able to make up the entire field to place second. The in-car camera in Angelelli's recorded that he wasn't even using the throttle coming out of some of the turns....or down some of the straights.
> 
> Nice for Cadillac to get the win, go team! But I would think that the results are a one time deal and that the SCCA will impose some rather severe weight penalty's on these cars to keep the races competitive. At least I hope they do.


I read that if they win 4 races in a row, the sanctioning body will make rule changes. Got my GMS number and have been referred to a dealer that will honor it. Decisions, decisions.


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## AK (Jan 19, 2002)

I participated in a "GM 24 Hour Test Drive" of a regular CTS about a month ago. I wanted to see if I liked the basic car or not (in terms of getting a CTS-V). You may or may not find this interesting since it was written by me with the perspective of a current BMW owner. I took a few pix of the car as well.

http://forums.roadfly.org/cadillac/forums/cts/4634127-3.html

I actually just test drove a G35 this past weekend and frankly, I thought the CTS I drove earlier was *nicer* if you can believe that.


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## Thertorch (Mar 10, 2004)

jw said:


> I read that if they win 4 races in a row, the sanctioning body will make rule changes. Got my GMS number and have been referred to a dealer that will honor it. Decisions, decisions.


Err, if you decide not to use that GMS number, I know someone who can :angel: :thumbup:


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

Thertorch said:


> Err, if you decide not to use that GMS number, I know someone who can :angel: :thumbup:


I had a disappointing conversation today w/ my bro-in-law. From an informal poll, none of his dealerships in almost the entire SE region will give up a CTS-V w/ GMS prices. If I'm really pressed, he'll make a real inquiry through some other channels and one might be located. Otherwise, I could find success through online forums, etc.

At this point, I'll opt to see how it's going in July. :dunno:


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

AK said:


> I participated in a "GM 24 Hour Test Drive" of a regular CTS about a month ago. I wanted to see if I liked the basic car or not (in terms of getting a CTS-V). You may or may not find this interesting since it was written by me with the perspective of a current BMW owner. I took a few pix of the car as well.
> 
> http://forums.roadfly.org/cadillac/forums/cts/4634127-3.html
> 
> I actually just test drove a G35 this past weekend and frankly, I thought the CTS I drove earlier was *nicer* if you can believe that.


Interesting write-up on your test drive. I was prompted today into considering the option of going for a regular CTS for 2 years. Monthly, it would cost me nearly 1/2 what my 330i does while I wait it out for an E90 or something else.


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## Thertorch (Mar 10, 2004)

jw said:


> Interesting write-up on your test drive. I was prompted today into considering the option of going for a regular CTS for 2 years. Monthly, it would cost me nearly 1/2 what my 330i does while I wait it out for an E90 or something else.


Definately consider the 2004 1/2 model year. 6 speed manual, sport suspension, and options can be chosen without buying the entire group. And I heard that GMS pricing will be available after 6 months.


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## thillIX (Jul 1, 2003)

I believe that there is a dealership in Ohio that will honor supplier pricing....


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## jw (Dec 21, 2001)

thillIX said:


> I believe that there is a dealership in Ohio that will honor supplier pricing....


Family too? PM me if you know the name/number. Thx.


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