# Thunderhill HPDE Impressions



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Several of the regular SCTS Festers, (Stuka, HACK, Mr. Paddle Shift, Galun, SergioK, Layla, Interlocker, and myself) and several of our friends went out to the HPDE organized by the Golden Gate Chapter of the BMW CCA this Friday/Saturday. If I left anyone out, sorry! uch:

It was a long long drive to get there (512 miles and about 7 hours time one way for me) so I wasn't so sure I wanted to do this track, but after hearing some more things about this track, I wanted to go more and more so I finally signed up. All I can say is wow! This is a really really fun track. It was designed by the San Francisco SCCA and has just about every type of turn you might come across in your track adventures. Nice wide open area with plenty of run-off, and a nice variety of turns. Definitely worth the trip.

The weather was pretty warm, topping out at about 102 degrees on the second day. This made the track surface a little greasy and added to the challenge.

Turn 1 is a nice left sweeper coming off the front straight. Speeds are quite fast through this as many cars enter with speeds well in excess of 100mph. I had to work at it to get over 100 though... :eeps:

Turn 2 is a long sweeping 180 left turn which is so long it's almost like a skidpad, and a great place to practice throttle steering.

Turn 3 is a medium right turn that is quite interesting as the turn is close to flat towards the inside and is quite off-camber in the middle to the outside of the turn.  I took two different lines in there over the course of the weekend and got a nice feel for how the different lines work for me.

Turn 4 is a quick left almost immediately following the exit for 3, leading into the next complex.

Turn 5 and 5a is known as the "Cyclone". There are two possible configurations here. One is a bypass that goes left of the hill there, and the other (more commonly used I think) goes up a hill and you make a sharp left and go right again into a downhill off-camber right sweeper. In a way it sort of resembles the corkscrew at Laguna Seca, but much more challenging. Very interesting turn indeed.

Turn 6 is a long left leading to the turn 7 and 8 sweepers. Take a late apex in 6 and start building up speed to whip you around and up the hill approaching turn 9.

Turn 9 is a left-right sort of turn which is a blind crest. A bit scary for the first timer but once you get your reference points down and get a feel for where the track is after the crest, it's very fun as well.

Turn 10 is a banked left right after coming back down hill from turn 9. A lot of speed is carried through there from the downhill stretch just before that. As a result you must be prepared to shave off a lot of speed as you enter the 11, 12, 13 complex we liked to call the "esses".

A very late apex at turn 11 will line you up to hit turn 12 and 13 with minimal steering input and get you some good speed going down the back straight under the bridge and into turn 14.

Turn 14 is a sharp right leading to a very short straight before turn 15 that opens up onto the front straight. Shave off a lot of speed before turn-in to 14 and unwind to drivers left to set up for 15. If done right, you can get a nice launch onto the front straight.

I really like this track! Just wish it wasn't quite so far away...  When's the next time? :angel: :thumbup:

GGC did a great job of organizing this event. Looking forward to Sears Point in November!  :drive:


----------



## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

:thumbup: It was good seeing you there!


----------



## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

Since I was unable to be there with you guys, I went to the go kart track instead. I was thinking about you guys the whole time I was at work. I kept thinking, "I could be on the track at about this time." Well there's always a next time. I'm glad that you all enjoyed Thunderhill.


----------



## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

Imagine the guys that will be driving that thing in shifts for the 25 Hours in December.


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Mdk330i said:


> Since I was unable to be there with you guys, I went to the go kart track instead. I was thinking about you guys the whole time I was at work. I kept thinking, "I could be on the track at about this time." Well there's always a next time. I'm glad that you all enjoyed Thunderhill.


Next time!  Hopefully it won't be quite as hot as it was this time... I think you'd like the track a lot....

How was karting?


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

scottn2retro said:


> Imagine the guys that will be driving that thing in shifts for the 25 Hours in December.


Actually, several of the 25hr at Thunderhill veterans were there with their "25 Hours" shirts at the banquet. 

I can't imagine what it must be like there at night time.


----------



## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

doeboy said:


> Next time!  Hopefully it won't be quite as hot as it was this time... I think you'd like the track a lot....
> 
> How was karting?


Karting was great of course. Although there were a lot of newbies holding me up. I did two 12 minute sessions back to back, and boy was I damn tired after. I was thinking how the hell the F1 guys can do this for 2 hours. Then I started thinking about the 24 hour racers. It's amazing what these guys can do.


----------



## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

doeboy said:


> Actually, several of the 25hr at Thunderhill veterans were there with their "25 Hours" shirts at the banquet.
> 
> I can't imagine what it must be like there at night time.


I imagine that by then, a driver would have so many laps under their belt, that they could almost drive it blindfolded. 

Oh, I heard that this year's 25 race will require all drivers to have had at least 8 races (or equivelant maybe) under their belt.


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Thunderhill was a lot of fun. I am glad and sorry that I took the Turbo. Turn 1 through 6 I have to be very careful and mindfuly of the Turbo chassis dynamic so that I don't end up spinning the car, which was a pain. I am glad that I was able to gain a new level of knowledge about the Turbo. The car really responds well to the classic slow in fast out.

This school has large A, C, and D groups, and a very small B group, of which I was running in. Because it was so small, most instructors run in B, and I really felt like I was a little shark bait swimming in a sea of hungry sharks. It was fun to watch them blow by you like you are standing still, yet it also reminds me of my lack of talent. uch: 

I am however, anxiously awaiting Doeboy's footage of one session of us running together. It would make for some interesting entertainment at the next SCTS gathering for sure. And if that was the session where I experimented with how little brakes I can get away with for turn 1, 10, and 14, all the better. :bigpimp: 

It was quite frustrating to watch the bimmer drivers tap their brakes and go on most of the turns when I really have to be on the binders to settle the car, then go.  But once I started doing that, I got up to stupid speed on the front straight - about 130. Same thing with the back straight. By the time the second day comes, I need to start braking way before the braking zone signs. You see those signs that say 3, 2, 1? I had to start braking at the imaginary 5 and 4 for turn 10, 14, and 1 in order to really settle the car. I got annoyed with the imaginary braking zone signs 5 and 4 and decided to experiment one lap with following the regular 3, 2, 1 signs at 1 and 10, and sure enough, the car got p*ssed and showed me who the real boss is by threatening to swap ends on me. :banghead: 

Turn 8 is awesome! But again, I have to really brake and settle the car, then go full throttle up the hill, much like turn 6 at Laguna Seca. I also try tapping the brakes to settle the car instead of braking, and yep, the car didn't like it. Same with 6, if I don't do in my mind what amounted to exaggerated braking to settle the car, the back end will want to come out.

In short, the car cannot be driven like a bimmer, it simply will not be driven that way. Well, it can be driven that way, but you'll be spending the majority of the time going sideways. :wow: I am 1000% positive that if I still had the E46 M3, I would have been a heck of a lot faster, since well, I don't need to be spending my mental traction account on keeping the stupid car straight.

The P car brakes are amazing though, no fade whatsoever, and barely any wear after the pounding it took to slow the car down for turn 1, 10, and 14.

See Doeboy, aren't you glad you came? :angel: 

If you enjoyed Thunderhill, then for sure you'll love Sears Point. I know I'll be there, and so will Hack and Issai. :thumbup:


----------



## Mr. The Edge (Dec 19, 2001)

what was HACK driving?

:eeps:


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Stuka said:


> Thunderhill was a lot of fun. I am glad and sorry that I took the Turbo. Turn 1 through 6 I have to be very careful and mindfuly of the Turbo chassis dynamic so that I don't end up spinning the car, which was a pain. I am glad that I was able to gain a new level of knowledge about the Turbo. The car really responds well to the classic slow in fast out.


Yeah those off-camber turns must be hell in the big bird. Slow in fast out... that's the way to do it... next time take the E30  I want to have a fighting chance and keeping up in the straights.... :bustingup



> This school has large A, C, and D groups, and a very small B group, of which I was running in. Because it was so small, most instructors run in B, and I really felt like I was a little shark bait swimming in a sea of hungry sharks. It was fun to watch them blow by you like you are standing still, yet it also reminds me of my lack of talent.


Imagine how I felt when instructors zoomed by me... If you felt like you were standing still.... I felt like I was going backwards.... :rofl:



> I am however, anxiously awaiting Doeboy's footage of one session of us running together. It would make for some interesting entertainment at the next SCTS gathering for sure. And if that was the session where I experimented with how little brakes I can get away with for turn 1, 10, and 14, all the better.


So when's the next one? Imad said he was interested in seeing footage too... 



> In short, the car cannot be driven like a bimmer, it simply will not be driven that way. Well, it can be driven that way, but you'll be spending the majority of the time going sideways.


I thought that's how you like to drive.... sideways.... 



> The P car brakes are amazing though, no fade whatsoever, and barely any wear after the pounding it took to slow the car down for turn 1, 10, and 14.


Speaking of brakes... I wonder if my pads will survive much longer.... 



> See Doeboy, aren't you glad you came?


Does my ear to ear grin say enough?  :thumbup:



> If you enjoyed Thunderhill, then for sure you'll love Sears Point. I know I'll be there, and so will Hack and Issai.


Walls....  but I'll just be sure to grandma around the track for a bit longer.... :eeps:


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

atyclb said:


> what was HACK driving?
> 
> :eeps:


The usual blue coupe...


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

atyclb said:


> what was HACK driving?
> 
> :eeps:


The blue lightning, now with the 323Ci badge, to inform the M drivers that he just pwned to back off on the throttle when they point him by. :bigpimp:


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Stuka said:


> The blue lightning, now with the 323Ci badge, to inform the M drivers that he just pwned to back off on the throttle when they point him by. :bigpimp:


Speaking of "PWNED"... on the way back home, I saw a car with a licence plate that looked like "128 PWN" or something... I only remembered the last three... It was good for a laugh on the long drive home...

Oh yeah... that and this nasty looking pickup truck with some weird wing on it and retarded looking windshield washer jet lights that wanted to race me or something... :tsk:  they pulled up next to me and sat there a while... and as I eased on the gas a bit to maintain my speed, they took it as me wanting to race or something and started mashing their gas pedal.... 

Can you say "That thang got a HEMI?" :rofl:


----------



## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

I'm glad you guys had a good time and came back in one piece! :thumbup:


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Raffi said:


> I'm glad you guys had a good time and came back in one piece! :thumbup:


Thanks!  I'm glad we survived and stayed shiny side up too.


----------



## scottn2retro (Mar 20, 2002)

SergioK said:


> I imagine that by then, a driver would have so many laps under their belt, that they could almost drive it blindfolded.
> 
> Oh, I heard that this year's 25 race will require all drivers to have had at least 8 races (or equivelant maybe) under their belt.


Maybe due to the number of accidents last year - the car that went on to be the race winner was almost taken out in an incident


----------



## Mr Paddle.Shift (Dec 19, 2001)

The *good*:

1. http://www.rennsport.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=20815#post20815
2. Track is spectacular. I give two thumbs up to SCCA for owning/running the track.
3. Thanks to Gary for the digi-video cam. :thumbup: 
4. Thanks to Dan for the decal. Still don't know where to stick it.
5. Lauri and Bob Sutterfield (I think that's the last name) for being my instructors on Sat and Sun. They were extremely patient with me and their costant feedback on how to carry more speed through the corners.
6. Great food at Black Bear.
7. My $12.00 fuel starvation fixture works! Car ran til almost half a gallon left!!!!

The *bad*:

1. Thunderhill is too far!
2. I am really sick of Denny's. 
3. Golden Gate assigned me to Group C and I am still quite baffled by that. I know I am in the wrong group when folks in front of me brake at turn 4, 6 and 9. Because when they brake, I had to too. That REALLY annoys me. :tsk: 
4. I was "meatballed" back to the pits because my brakes squealed too loud. I lost track time for nothing. What's next? Pull me in for a "psst" sound on the straight?
5. ThunderHill food is expensive and disgusting.
6. What's with fellas who drive M3s? Everytime I pass them, they try so hard to catch up and give me the stares in the pits thinking "what's with that blue car?" It's not the car, it's the driving skills. 
7. Classroom lessons were repetitively boring. I attended two out of six. What's that speaker's name again?

The *ugly*:

1. Golden Gate's lunch policy is very vague and contradicting. Won't go into the details. I am sure you guys agree to that.
2. I am a little annoyed that only two of you folks offer to help me fold the canopy end of the both days. Where's the integrity fellas? If you want to hang out under the shade in a 40C weather, then be part of the tribe. If you still want shade and the convenience of not helping to fold, I believe that's this organic living thing with fluffy green leaves call the TREE.


----------



## Raffi (May 18, 2002)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> The *bad*:
> 
> 3. Golden Gate assigned me to Group C and I am still quite baffled by that. I know I am in the wrong group when folks in front of me brake at turn 4, 6 and 9. Because when they brake, I had to too. That REALLY annoys me. :tsk:
> 4. I was "meatballed" back to the pits because my brakes squealed too loud. I lost track time for nothing. What's next? Pull me in for a "psst" sound on the straight?
> ...


 Woaw, I can't believe you were put in C...:thumbdwn: that's just wrong, given your experience and your car. Did you talk to your instructors or tent leaders about being moved up to B , since there weren't a lot of people in the group?

As for the M3 drivers, they couldn't believe your hamster-powered car blew by their ego-powered car! 



Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> The *ugly*:
> 
> 2. I am a little annoyed that only two of you folks offer to help me fold the canopy end of the both days. Where's the integrity fellas? If you want to hang out under the shade in a 40C weather, then be part of the tribe. If you still want shade and the convenience of not helping to fold, I believe that's this organic living thing with fluffy green leaves call the TREE.


 :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:


----------



## The HACK (Dec 19, 2001)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> The *ugly*:
> 
> 1. Golden Gate's lunch policy is very vague and contradicting. Won't go into the details. I am sure you guys agree to that.
> 2. I am a little annoyed that only two of you folks offer to help me fold the canopy end of the both days. Where's the integrity fellas? If you want to hang out under the shade in a 40C weather, then be part of the tribe. If you still want shade and the convenience of not helping to fold, I believe that's this organic living thing with fluffy green leaves call the TREE.


I helped on day 1 (I think)! 

Really sorry about blasting out of there on Saturday Vince, I "offered" knowing that you probably were taking it easy and waiting for some people to help. I wanted to get home on a reasonable time at a reasonable pace so I wanted to leave as early as possible. Even at that, I got home at 11:30pm.

All in all, it was a rewarding weekend despite the long trekk. I promise I'll stay and help for Buttwillow.

Harris Ranch was really good. Maybe we should trekk up there on Sunday after Buttwillow for dinner?


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> 2. I am a little annoyed that only two of you folks offer to help me fold the canopy end of the both days. Where's the integrity fellas? If you want to hang out under the shade in a 40C weather, then be part of the tribe. If you still want shade and the convenience of not helping to fold, I believe that's this organic living thing with fluffy green leaves call the TREE.


Dude, sorry..... I was still there I think... you shoulda said something.... I was trying to get my stuff in order too but would've gladly helped you out... next thing I know, you guys disappeared too.... so I dunno... :dunno: seemed like every time I turned around, more people disappeared. And no goodbyes either.... so I was a bit confused too...


----------



## Stuka (Jul 17, 2002)

Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> The *bad*:
> 
> 3. Golden Gate assigned me to Group C and I am still quite baffled by that. I know I am in the wrong group when folks in front of me brake at turn 4, 6 and 9. Because when they brake, I had to too. That REALLY annoys me. :tsk:


B was wide open with maybe 12 cars. Did you talk to your instructor about running in B at the end of the first day? Also, keep in mind that a few cars got moved from B to C the second day, and one car that was moved from C to B went off the second day. One of the worst thing that people can do is to screw up right after being moved up. Then they usually move you down and make you stay there for a while. :yikes:



Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> 4. I was "meatballed" back to the pits because my brakes squealed too loud. I lost track time for nothing. What's next? Pull me in for a "psst" sound on the straight?


We did this to a guy in the C group at Button Willow in April also to make sure that his brakes were OK. I know that I wouldn't want to be hauling a$$ on the front stragith, got up to 130, then find out that I gots no brakes. :yikes:



Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> 5. ThunderHill food is expensive and disgusting.


So is Button Willow, Sears Point, Vegas, etc. Think of track food as movie theather food caliber. They've got a, um, how should I say it, "captivated" audience. 



Mr Paddle.Shift said:


> The *ugly*:
> 
> 1. Golden Gate's lunch policy is very vague and contradicting. Won't go into the details. I am sure you guys agree to that.
> 2. I am a little annoyed that only two of you folks offer to help me fold the canopy end of the both days. Where's the integrity fellas? If you want to hang out under the shade in a 40C weather, then be part of the tribe. If you still want shade and the convenience of not helping to fold, I believe that's this organic living thing with fluffy green leaves call the TREE.


They put in the lunch tickets by mistake. GGC has lost massive amount of $$ on schools, and is trying to be back in the black. Thunderhill with lunches and full room comp for each instructor would have raised the school fee to $550, like most other GGC school fees. If it means Sears Point will also be $495, I am all for it. I paid $550 for the last three Sears Point schools. And sure we got lunches, but as Bruce said, those lunches ain't worth $20 a piece.

And sorry about the tent thing. I had to be somewhere on Sunday morning at 8:45 in the morning. I should have stayed and helped anyway, since eventhough I got home a a decent hour on Saturday, my body refused to get up on Sunday at that hour. :banghead: :angel:


----------



## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

Stuka said:


> We did this to a guy in the C group at Button Willow in April also to make sure that his brakes were OK. I know that I wouldn't want to be hauling a$$ on the front stragith, got up to 130, then find out that I gots no brakes. :yikes:


Yes, I distinctly remember that meatball and the driver and I were baffled as to what in the world was wrong with the car since the car felt great. On the next run session I taught him a different braking technique that made his brake squeal almost disappear and improve his braking too! :thumbup:



Stuka said:


> They put in the lunch tickets by mistake. GGC has lost massive amount of $$ on schools, and is trying to be back in the black. Thunderhill with lunches and full room comp for each instructor would have raised the school fee to $550, like most other GGC school fees. If it means Sears Point will also be $495, I am all for it. I paid $550 for the last three Sears Point schools. And sure we got lunches, but as Bruce said, those lunches ain't worth $20 a piece.


Last year's school lunch costs were $20 per day and I'm sure not one student thought they were getting a $20 lunch!


----------



## cchan (Sep 19, 2002)

Nice to meet all of you SCTS'ers at Thunderhill! Great idea for Sunday lunch, and thanks for bringing/setting up the tent (sorry, would have helped take it down, but I think I was still waiting for them to burn my CD when you guys were putting it away :dunno: ).

Sergio - thanks for the ride during the Sunday afternoon A session, it was very impressive to know what one can do with a 318!

Glad to hear everyone made it home safely. Amazing how there are some schitzo drivers on the freeway - while following Gary back, an SUV got between us and insisted on squatting lazily in the left lane at only 0.0005 mph more than the traffic to the right, and ~5mph less than we were going. When I finally got a big opening and blew around it to catch up, the driver had a personality change and immediately speeded up to catch up to close the gap we left and then when we hit the next traffic pack, switched over to the right 2 lanes and weaved aggressively in and out between big semis to get through. :tsk: 

Had a great time, look forward to seeing you guys at Sears (oops, I mean Infineon)!


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

cchan said:


> Nice to meet all of you SCTS'ers at Thunderhill! Great idea for Sunday lunch, and thanks for bringing/setting up the tent (sorry, would have helped take it down, but I think I was still waiting for them to burn my CD when you guys were putting it away :dunno: ).
> 
> Sergio - thanks for the ride during the Sunday afternoon A session, it was very impressive to know what one can do with a 318!
> 
> ...


It was nice meeting you too! Come to think of it... I did wait for a while in the photographers trailer too... :dunno:

Isn't it crazy what the green 318 can do out there? :drive:

I hear you on the crappy driver thing... I had a run in with a few knuckle heads too. A Volvo packed with teens merged onto the freeway and made a beeline for the fast lane cutting across 4 lanes of traffic.... BEFORE the freeways lines naturally merged together... you know that section of pavement between lane markers that's considered "no man's land"? they went across that, and across 4 lanes right in front of me....  :tsk: so when I tapped my horn at them they started being even bigger morons and started tapping the brakes, flashing their hazards and doing this :supdude:. WTH was that....


----------



## SergioK (Aug 14, 2002)

cchan said:


> Sergio - thanks for the ride during the Sunday afternoon A session, it was very impressive to know what one can do with a 318!


It is pretty neat to see what that 318i can do... although the tires that are on it now have gobs of more grip than the ones that were on the car back at Fontana and Las Vegas. :yikes:


----------



## Galun (Aug 14, 2002)

cchan said:


> Glad to hear everyone made it home safely. Amazing how there are some schitzo drivers on the freeway - while following Gary back, an SUV got between us and insisted on squatting lazily in the left lane at only 0.0005 mph more than the traffic to the right, and ~5mph less than we were going. When I finally got a big opening and blew around it to catch up, the driver had a personality change and immediately speeded up to catch up to close the gap we left and then when we hit the next traffic pack, switched over to the right 2 lanes and weaved aggressively in and out between big semis to get through. :tsk:


Oh yeah, I remember that SUV. The GMC Yukon XL. Idiots. :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:

This is my first track session after putting in the ground control suspension. One word - WOW. I felt that I was in a lot more control of the car, and the car was a lot more predictable. I just wish I had done the suspension mod sooner.

I also tried out the PFC 97 brake pads in front. These pads had a lot more initial bite and overall brake torque compared to carbotech panther pluses, and the release felt very smooth. They work pretty well in the cold. I did not experience brake fade at all throughout the weekend. I think these pads are a little too aggressive when matched to Axxis Ultimates in the rear - it's much easier to make the car dive compared to the carbotechs.

This was also my first time running in the A group. It was a lot less intimidating than I thought. People were actually very polite and courteous. It was a very good experience and definitely a confidence builder.


----------



## Mdk330i (Feb 24, 2002)

Stuka said:


> I am however, anxiously awaiting Doeboy's footage of one session of us running together.


Doe was running in B group? Good job doe!


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Mdk330i said:


> Doe was running in B group? Good job doe!


Thanks! I was rather surprised when I picked up my registration packet and it said B on it. :eeps: Made me a little nervous and apprehensive about being in that group. But I have to ditto what Galun said that it wasn't quite as scary as I thought it would be. (Except this was his first in A, and my first in B) In fact, my instructors Matt Ross and Bill Arnold were great and helped me survive my first time in B and gave me confidence. Thanks guys! :thumbup:

I think being in B also helped in the sense that I didn't want to drag them down too much so I was extra careful to focus on consistency, smoothness, getting the car set up for turns ahead of time and not go into corners too hot. Before I knew it I wasn't nervous anymore and feeling quite good after each session. 

I think I'm going to be back in C at Buttonwillow though. I requested C when I mailed in my app not realizing this was gonna happen at Thunderhill. It's probably better that I practice Buttonwillow more in C before I try to run with the Bs again there.


----------



## cchan (Sep 19, 2002)

Galun said:


> Oh yeah, I remember that SUV. The GMC Yukon XL. Idiots. :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:


forgot about that one, was actually thinking of a Durango later on 80...

As a relative newbie to track schools, I can't possibly imagine myself ever feeling confident enough to be at an A or B level for a long time, especially at a course without as much runoff room.

They moved a few of us from D up to C on Saturday, but I think I didn't do quite as well (in quality) on day 2 because of a little intimidation factor and worrying a bit more about checking the rear view mirror to make sure I wasn't holding anyone up.

I think the D class was only about 15 or so, there was a lot of room and separation on the track. For most of Friday, I was actually driving with a lot of space - enough that I couldn't even see any cars in front or back other than on the longer straights. Was able to explore a bit of threshold braking later in the day. Felt that in general I was hitting all of the marks fairly well, certainly better than I did on the second day.

I don't know if it was the moving up to C worries, combined with a different instructor, but I definitely feel that I was not as *accurate * on Saturday (not hitting all the marks), although perhaps I might have been carrying more speed but on a sloppier line.

I guess that since there are different lines for different turns (esp #3), switching instructors also made me feel kind of like the stuff that I had learned on Friday was "wrong" vs. what I should be doing on Saturday. So maybe I wound up trying to mentally change what I had ingrained from day 1 on day 2 and wound up mixed in the middle with a worse result.


----------



## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

cchan said:


> As a relative newbie to track schools, I can't possibly imagine myself ever feeling confident enough to be at an A or B level for a long time, especially at a course without as much runoff room.
> 
> They moved a few of us from D up to C on Saturday, but I think I didn't do quite as well (in quality) on day 2 because of a little intimidation factor and worrying a bit more about checking the rear view mirror to make sure I wasn't holding anyone up.


Don't worry about it... I felt the same way at first but as long as I'm aware of my surroundings and just focus on being smooth, eventually the speed will come... just like many of my instructors have told me. It really works. Actually looking for people behind you too often can become a distraction... the advice I was given was to pretty much ignore the mirrors and concentrate on hitting your marks when it's busy and when you reach a straight or get a slight break in the action on track, take a glance to see who's there. As soon as you enter more twisties, ignore them and focus on the line.

Courses with less runoff or walls can be intimidating but just ease up to it. Go slower and practice the line and in time you get faster as you become more comfortable with what speeds and how close you can get (if a wall is right next to the track).



> I don't know if it was the moving up to C worries, combined with a different instructor, but I definitely feel that I was not as *accurate * on Saturday (not hitting all the marks), although perhaps I might have been carrying more speed but on a sloppier line.
> 
> I guess that since there are different lines for different turns (esp #3), switching instructors also made me feel kind of like the stuff that I had learned on Friday was "wrong" vs. what I should be doing on Saturday. So maybe I wound up trying to mentally change what I had ingrained from day 1 on day 2 and wound up mixed in the middle with a worse result.


Some instructors have a slightly different line they like to teach based on their experience and what works for them. A lot of it depends on the type of car as well... larger heavier cars will need to take a different line than a lighter more tossable car. Sometimes it throws me off too, and sometimes it's not as difficult to adjust. One line may work better for you than another, but neither are particularly wrong. I like to try what different lines I'm being told to try and see what works better for me and stick with that.

I too was taught different lines between the 1st and 2nd day. Both lines worked, but I felt that the line I was taught on the 2nd day seemed to work slightly better to set up for turn 4, and was a little better suited to my car so I stuck with it.


----------

