# Unusual problem AFTER ED...frustrated and disappointed



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

Ok, 'festers, I could really use some advice here:

I had a fantastic time with my recent 2011 M3 vert ED (pix here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535357), but now have a problem and I don't know if I'll actually get my car.

My CA (a board sponsor who is very well-regarded here for his ED experience), sent me an email while we were on our trip saying he hoped we were having fun and asking me to call him when we got back. When I called him on Monday, he told me very apologetically that they did not send my credit application to BMWFS until AFTER I had left for the trip (although he had thought they had), and BMWFS was asking for $7000 in capital cost reduction on the lease. This despite the fact that I had signed all the paperwork for the lease with BMWFS before leaving and had paid $5700 (7 MSDs, first month, title, doc fee).

He said it wasn't a problem with my credit, or my income, or whether they thought I could afford it&#8230;.the reason he gave me was that I had never bought an expensive car before. That's true, but to put it in perspective, I have a good job, make plenty of money (my wife and I are both physicians), have had credit cards for over 20 years and a mortgage for over 10 years without any missed payments or defaults or anything like that, and I'm turning 40 next week, and I decided I wanted to have a nice car.

We talked a little more, and when I reminded him of my job, my income, and the fact that I'd already paid 7 MSDs and didn't that put their mind at ease, he said he'd talk to them and try to work it out. Today I emailed him asking what was going on and he replied that they want the $7k cap reduction and he can't get around it. I should make it clear that I don't think he's trying to screw me or do anything shady here, but this is not what we agreed to and not what the signed lease agreement says. At first I thought he'd be able to figure something out because he seems like he's a nice guy who's really good at his job, and he managed to come up with a creative solution to a problem earlier in the process (not related to financing), but now it doesn't look so good.

I'm feeling frustrated and disappointed, and am not sure what I should do now. Part of the reason I picked this car (besides the fact that I love driving it!) was the great lease deal. It's not such a great deal with the $7k cap reduction, and I wouldn't have gone for that. I want the deal we agreed to, but I don't know what happens in a situation where there's a signed lease agreement (signed by me and the dealer) but apparently they never cleared it with BMWFS.

What do you guys think? Any help is appreciated.


----------



## necromancer (Sep 7, 2010)

F'm. A deal is a signed contract. This is not your problem but theirs. You do have a signed deal with your signature and their signature? That is an executed contract. Should hold up anywhere including BMWFS. If they have a beef, fax them your deal and say, "not my problem man."

Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

necromancer said:


> F'm. A deal is a signed contract. This is not your problem but theirs. You do have a signed deal with your signature and their signature? That is an executed contract. Should hold up anywhere including BMWFS. If they have a beef, fax them your deal and say, "not my problem man."
> 
> Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App


Nice try, but at the top of every BMWFS lease contract you'll see a clause that says something to the effect of, "This lease is subject to assignee approval."

Basically, the dealership could back out and repo the car (in this case, just not redeliver the car) and return all money to the OP. In that case the OP would have gotten a free M3 rental.


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

darbyogill said:


> Nice try, but at the top of every BMWFS lease contract you'll see a clause that says something to the effect of, "This lease is subject to assignee approval."
> 
> Basically, the dealership could back out and repo the car (in this case, just not redeliver the car) and return all money to the OP. In that case the OP would have gotten a free M3 rental.


I sure hope the OP enjoyed his trip to Germany.


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

I do have a signed lease agreement (signed by me and the dealer), and I don't see the "subject to assignee approval" clause, but I'm no lawyer and I'm sure there's something hidden in the fine print somewhere. Anyway I'm not looking for a fight or to burn any bridges...my wife and I were already talking about an ED in 2 years for "her" car.


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

SwissAaron said:


> I do have a signed lease agreement (signed by me and the dealer), and I don't see the "subject to assignee approval" clause


Wow. Looks like they really effed up then. I'm no lawyer either, but this board is swarming with them. Can't wait to hear from our juris doctors.


----------



## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

I don't understand the reasoning at all. Because you have not purchased an expensive car before?? From my experience with Toyota/Lexus Financial a great credit score and solid income gets it done, end of story. As long as the asset to debt ratio matches up its a go, and the value of previous vehicles has never once come up as an issue. Clearly BMWFS is a different company, but I can't see how they would refuse a customer with great credit and solid income. There must be more to this story.


----------



## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

Legally, you've got no recourse though. All contracts are subject to BMWFS approval, the only signature that matters is from the financing company. You have no contract with them without their approval. I will say the dealership itself owes you something for wasting your time. It's pure and utter incompetence to let the deal get this far without an approval. It should have been one of the first things done.


----------



## alex md (Nov 21, 2005)

Well worst case scenario- you had a great trip, drove on a bann and it cost you close to 0
Try to rent M3 for 2 weeks no less than 2000 dollars
Alex


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

OP: In your original post you use the term "they" forgot to send your credit app to BMWFS. I would assume this is the responsibility of the finance guy/gal, not the CA. If your paperwork was completed in time for this to have occurred, then there is no excuse that it did not get approved given that this can happen virtually within minutes. I would call the GM of the dealership and ask him/her to explain how this happened. Who signed the original paperwork for the dealership?


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

dannyc9997 said:


> I don't understand the reasoning at all. Because you have not purchased an expensive car before?? From my experience with Toyota/Lexus Financial a great credit score and solid income gets it done, end of story. As long as the asset to debt ratio matches up its a go, and the value of previous vehicles has never once come up as an issue. Clearly BMWFS is a different company, but I can't see how they would refuse a customer with great credit and solid income. There must be more to this story.


I understand your suspicion...I'd feel the same way if I read my story here. But, I promise you, if there's more to the story, I don't know what it is. I've put the facts out exactly as I understand them and as my CA explained them to me. And he seems like a straight shooter to me, and has a spotless rep here on bimmerfest, so I can't imagine he's decided to go rogue all of a sudden.


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

rmorin49 said:


> OP: In your original post you use the term "they" forgot to send your credit app to BMWFS. I would assume this is the responsibility of the finance guy/gal, not the CA. If your paperwork was completed in time for this to have occurred, then there is no excuse that it did not get approved given that this can happen virtually within minutes. I would call the GM of the dealership and ask him/her to explain how this happened. Who signed the original paperwork for the dealership?


The way my CA explained it to me, the finance person left the dealership and was replaced by someone else, and somewhere in the shuffle the credit app was never sent. My CA said he thought it had been sent, but was wrong about that.


----------



## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

SwissAaron said:


> I understand your suspicion...I'd feel the same way if I read my story here. But, I promise you, if there's more to the story, I don't know what it is. I've put the facts out exactly as I understand them and as my CA explained them to me. And he seems like a straight shooter to me, and has a spotless rep here on bimmerfest, so I can't imagine he's decided to go rogue all of a sudden.


Sorry, I did not mean you had something to hide. My suspicion lies with what the CA told you. Remember, assuming he does not handle the finance business, he is forced to tell you what he was told. Far too often the sales person is mislead, and thus misleads the customer. A huge mistake was made here, and the excuses just don't add up. My guess is someone is trying to cover their tracks and passing the blame.

EDIT: Just saw your post about the finance manager leaving. Now that sheds some light on the situation. From my experience, when finance managers or CA's leave unexpectedly, all hell can break loose. Nobody wants to assume the job of cleaning the mess that's left and things always get messed up.


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

Unbelievable. They screw up and ask you to pay? And who's that 'board sponsor who is very well-regarded here for his ED experience'? Close to NC? I would think twice about making another deal with him. Hopefully, he chimes in and clears things up.


----------



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

When I bought a car in NC, I remember some pretty considerable doc fees. How much will you be in the hole if you don't take the car? I have to imagine the dealer may be in a bigger pickle - but I also don't see them swallowing the downpayment. If you really want the car, and the downpayment isn't a problem, perhaps you may offer to make it, but would like something back - like some parts or accessories. I wouldn't settle for credit on a future purchase, but something you can cash in immediately. If you don't have the downpayment (or have already committed the funds elsewhere), you don't have it - and need to negotiate from that perspective.

Putting myself in your shoes, you want this car. You've worked too hard for it, waited for the best deal to come along, and taken your family to Germany to get it. Personally, push comes to shove, I'd pay the downpayment - it's that good. I commend you for being composed - it must be the training.


----------



## dunderhi (Dec 10, 2006)

If you pay a $7k cap reduction, doesn't that mean you'll have $7k (plus the interest on the $7k) removed from your payments? On a 3yr lease, your payments should drop $200-220/mo depending on your money factor. Certainly, they aren't be asking you to pay an additional $7K for your car, right?


----------



## b-y (Sep 14, 2004)

Wow! This has me a bit confused. Let's assume for a moment they do NOT want BOTH the $7K cap reduction AND the 7 MSDs. If that is correct, and thinking like an economist and financial management professor (which I am), I'd try to approach it this way:

(I'd probably be so wrapped up in this I would have trouble thinking straight if this did happen to me, so bear with me here.)

There are two proposed deals--the original one with the terms you agreed to but BMWFS did not, and the new one with the revised terms. Compare the up-front costs, the monthly payments, and any other things that result in real dollar differences to you. How much are the differences? I suspect that since they should have to return at least 6 of the MSDs, it might not be that much. (It will certainly be less than the $7K up-front.) You'll need to carefully check the math and the precise terms of the alternate proposed deal to be certain. (If you want, some of us could run the two scenarios through a lease calculator.) Then you can decide, or even bargain further, based on actual numbers.

Let us know if we can help with the math. I hope this works out in the end.


----------



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

dunderhi said:


> If you pay a $7k cap reduction, doesn't that mean you'll have $7k (plus the interest on the $7k) removed from your payments? On a 3yr lease, your payments should drop $200-220/mo depending on your money factor. Certainly, they aren't be asking you to pay an additional $7K for your car, right?


But they are asking him to forgo $200 or so at least. This is because BMWFS picks up the second payment for ED - and BMW will be paying $200 less due to a $7K downpayment.


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

OP here. Thanks for all your input. To answer some of the questions, I did not buy the car from an NC dealer. The dealer is in Atlanta. The doc fee was $200.

As for the terms of any possible new deal, I haven't seen any. So far the only info I have is that "BMW FS wants $7k cap reduction". I don't know if that's instead of the MSDs or in addition to them. I'll have to ask the CA for the complete set of numbers so I can look at them, but I'm not feeling very optimistic. I paid the MSDs primarily to lower the MF...I assume if I were to pay a cap cost reduction but not the MSDs then the MF would go up and raise the interest I'd be paying, wouldn't it?

There is one other thing that I didn't think was relevant, but now I'm wondering: The original car I spec'd out had carbon leather trim, and that was what was on the paperwork. When it went from "on order" to "start of production" on the BMW website, not all of the options I had ordered were listed on the website so I contacted my CA. He emailed me a vehicle inquiry report that listed all of the options correctly, except it had the wrong trim (aluminum instead of the carbon leather). I emailed him right away and he apologized and said he'd contact BMW about it. A couple of hours later he emailed me that it was too late to fix the trim, and that I'd have to take delivery of that car in Munich, but that they were ordering me a replacement car with the correct trim for direct shipment and on redelivery they'd take the one with aluminum trim into their stock. 

This seemed like great customer service to me, and is part of the reason I was optimistic he'd be able to work this financing thing out. But (I presume) it also would have cost the dealer some money, since I guess they'd have to pay US MSRP to get the replacement car for me, and the car they'd end up with on the lot would have been driven by me around Europe for a week and would have a bunch of miles on it and might be harder to sell because of that? Now, instead, it seems they'd end up with a brand new car (that they paid US MSRP for) and a car with a few miles on it (that they only paid ED MSRP for). I don't think this CA would play games like that, but it is strange.


----------



## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

SwissAaron said:


> OP here. Thanks for all your input. To answer some of the questions, I did not buy the car from an NC dealer. The dealer is in Atlanta. The doc fee was $200.
> 
> As for the terms of any possible new deal, I haven't seen any. So far the only info I have is that "BMW FS wants $7k cap reduction". I don't know if that's instead of the MSDs or in addition to them. I'll have to ask the CA for the complete set of numbers so I can look at them, but I'm not feeling very optimistic. I paid the MSDs primarily to lower the MF...I assume if I were to pay a cap cost reduction but not the MSDs then the MF would go up and raise the interest I'd be paying, wouldn't it?
> 
> ...


I would be dealing with the manager of that dealer and not with the CA if I were you... I do understand financing issues with approvals, delays or just simply screw ups.

But this whole car swap -used car for a brand new car- just because of a $800 trim (dealer cost) looks to me like either an extremely inexperienced CA or another suspicious move to keep getting more money out of you somehow. This makes absolutely no sense to me, as the trim can be swapped in 15 minutes or less...

By the way, this type of financing/leasing flip flops after delivery was so rampant and serious in South Florida at the end of the 1990/begining of the 2000's that it was investigated by the local authorities. Yes, financing paperwork screw ups happen but when it happens to hundreds of people in one same area then it is not that much of a screw up.


----------



## ssj (Jul 17, 2010)

You should post the name of your sales person. You will find your problems will be solved rather quick. Anonymity allows folks to jerk other people around.


----------



## masti99 (Feb 14, 2011)

I agree with OP, the CA is very professional, even though I did not purchase my car thru him and got ED locally with a trade-in (going in June). Still the CA was very accommodating and gave me tips for my trip. While other CAs blew off my emails. In my book it goes a long way. I am confident he will come thru with flying colors.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Board Sponsor = Paid Advertiser and nothing more. A dealership/board sponsor here in the Chicago area has a lousy reputation and they still are able to advertise here. 

It sounds like a major error with the monthly payments by the dealership. The sales person is lying to you. BMW FS does not care whether you bought an expensive car before. BMW FS cares about your credit score and income. My son was approved for a loan from BMW FS. He is single and while he has a fine job as a Senior Project Engineer for a large construction company in LA, he is far less credit worthy than you. At the time he was 28, owned no real estate, had no savings other than a minimal down payment, and had never bought a car before on his own. Accounting for his $12,000 owed for grad school at USC. He had a negative net worth. He was approved instantly. His gross income is approximately 25 percent of your income and that of your wife. BMW FS is there to get reasonable deals done. 

The sales person is lying to you. You should encourage to him/her to cut the bullsh1t and clearly explain what happened or you will post his/her name here and get a lawyer involved. You should also contact BMW Customer Service. After the first person there blows you off escalate the matter up to his/her manager. Explain that you and your wife are physicians, mention your income, and that this is your first BMW and that you really like the car and BMW Euro Delivery. Also explain if this is not resolved in an equitable manner that this will be your last BMW. They will work with you and the dealer to resolve this.

You really need to grind throught the lease math yourself to see what you really are paying for the car. When leasing a car, one should always document the assumptions with the dealership and attach that to the purchase order and make that part of the deal. Just annotate that the deal is based upon those assumptions. 

You do have some leverage on the dealership. If you are not satisfied with the deal, the dealership is stuck with a used M3 convertible. Without you it is their car no matter what BMW FS did or did not do.

By all means please post the name of the salesperson here.


----------



## Andrews335ic (May 3, 2008)

I would call an attorney first before you talk to the dealer again so you know where you stand with the legal aspect, lease terms and conditions and NC laws.


----------



## FastMarkA (Apr 21, 2008)

SwissAaron said:


> I should make it clear that I don't think he's trying to screw me or do anything shady here, but this is not what we agreed to and not what the signed lease agreement says.


Think about this long and hard. 

Bernie Madoff didn't tell his victims he was going to screw them. :angel:


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

The CA is Adrian. The deal he put together for me is very similar to deals I've seen others report here from him and I didn't find any complaints at all about him on the boards. If this was the local dealer and I'd walked in off the street, then, yes, I'd suspect he was trying to screw me. That's why I picked Adrian...based on what I've read here he has done a lot of EDs and has put significant time and energy into building a good reputation on bimmerfest. I can't imagine he'd want to mess that up for a few extra bucks from me.

I don't really want this to become a conflict (with or without a lawyer)...I'm not interested in turning into someone who tries to punish others for what I do believe was an honest mistake, as long as they try their best to fix it. On the other hand, I don't want to lose money based on someone else's mistake. Don't get me wrong: if I felt like I was being screwed or cheated by someone, I'd be comfortable spending a lot more then $7k making sure they didn't get away with it. But for a mistake? Over a damn car? No.

At the moment, it sounds like the options are:
1) Get the details on the "new" deal and see how the numbers work out.
2) Try to get a similar deal from a different lender (not likely).
3) Walk away.
4) Call the manager of the dealership.
5) Call BMW directly.
6) Talk to my lawyer.

Anyone see any other possible avenues to pursue?


----------



## 3ismagic# (Mar 17, 2011)

I agree with the others. This doesn't add up. Have you pulled your credit history lately? Perhaps there is an error on it that is making BMWFS leery? 

Please let us know how this gets resolved.


----------



## chrisk03 (Jun 30, 2010)

Kudos to Adrian for fixing the issue for the client. Congrats.


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

3ismagic# said:


> I agree with the others. This doesn't add up. Have you pulled your credit history lately? Perhaps there is an error on it that is making BMWFS leery?
> 
> Please let us know how this gets resolved.


That's a good suggestion. I haven't checked it myself for about two years. He told me the problem was just because I hadn't ever bought an expensive car before, but if there was something else that would make more sense. No matter how this works out, I'll need to check that.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

To solve any problem, you first need to know what is the problem. "You haven't bought an expensive car before" is not the problem. Adrian needs to identify what is the real problem. That is the professional thing to do. He at least owes you a straight answer. It does not speak highly of him, if he is not forthright about solving this problem. I would also call the dealership's sales manager. My suggestion is to not hire an attorney until you have exhausted the other avenues outlined my last two posts here. Good luck and keep us posted as to how this plays out.

Also what is your lease rate in relation to the BMW Buy Rate? What is the purchase price in dollars over European Delivery Wholesale pricing? You really need to understand the specifics of the lease deal that you signed.


----------



## NagoC50 (Aug 17, 2009)

Alright -- I'll bite as I am one of the resident JD's around here. As usual, though, the legal disclaimer -- I am not and have never been licensed to practice in NC, GA and none of this is legal advice. Consult a local lawyer but here's my 2 cents....

Something smells here. 

Not knowing what was in the lease agreement -- My 2010 ED was a buy -- as a matter of fact, I've never leased but the issue that I have here is that there was performance on this contract --- you apparently paid as per terms of the agreement, arrived in Munich and then they delivered the car for crying out loud. You haven't otherwise breached the agreement. I would think that if BMWFS had the right to approve, it would need to be done prior to delivery of the car. And I could only imagine the firestorm of someone flying to Munich and being turned away at the Welt because of this reason. Good luck.


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

SwissAaron said:


> That's a good suggestion. I haven't checked it myself for about two years. He told me the problem was just because I hadn't ever bought an expensive car before, but if there was something else that would make more sense. No matter how this works out, I'll need to check that.


The finance department pulled your credit score to set up the lease, asked them what's the number. That will eliminate some of the credit worthiness questions.

If I were in your shoes, I would insist they stick to the original terms, otherwise I would have a bad taste everytime I get into the car. To me, ED cars are very much about the experience and memories.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

You also need to keep making your payments until this is sorted out. Bear in mind that the second payment is skipped as part of the Euro Delivery adder to the lease rate.


----------



## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

I'd like to clarify some things so that there are no misunderstandings.

What the OP stated here is correct. We had a finance manager shuffle and his application didn't get submitted. When it did go in, the response from BMW FS was exactly as the OP posted.

I do know mistakes can be made. I make them on occasion, but this is one where I feel really terrible about because it's simply not my call regarding BMW FS credit decision. I only wish I had known this in the beginning.

I wasn't aware of the situation until the client left for Europe and we were trying to get funded from BMW FS for the contract. Well, you can't get funding on a contract unless the credit application has been submitted and approved and that's when we realized the previous finance manager didn't submit the application. So we immediately submitted the application so we could get funded. You all know the results.

The most important thing to emphasize here is that the underlying deal points haven't changed with the exception of the capital cost reduction (and yes this is a big change but this is the one thing that BMW FS, not the dealership, controls). He still gets the same MF, residual, etc. that we originally agreed upon. The vehicle's sale price is the same as well. As far as MSDs are concerned, he is not required to put down MSDs *and* the cap cost reduction. OP has the option to utilize cap reduction plus MSD's (thus lowering the money factor).

The OP could walk away from the deal if he wants - and, as someone here pointed out, he would get a great (free) M3 car rental for two weeks. I've given the OP several alternatives in terms of actually getting the car he wants and I hope that's the direction he'll go.

Naturally, since it's my dealership's error, we're not only sorry but working to make this right and I believe the OP will be completely satisfied at the end of the day.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

Why don't you give him the lower rate that MSD's trigger and he puts down the larger cap reduction?


----------



## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

pharding said:


> Why don't you give him the lower rate that MSD's trigger and he puts down the larger cap reduction?


That's an available alternative which I've proposed in lieu of simply putting the cap reduction exclusively.


----------



## Me530 (Feb 17, 2005)

adrian's bmw said:


> That's an available alternative which I've proposed in lieu of simply putting the cap reduction exclusively.


That sounds like a more than fair proposal! The cap cost reduction isn't *too* much more than the amount of money tied up in the security deposits. So the OP will have pretty decent payment on the lease, as if he had 7 MSD's along with the cap cost reduction. :thumbup:

To the OP: Good luck with all of this, I know Adrian is a good guy and will work this out.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

It sounds like this problem may be solved for OP with at least one good options. Thanks Adrian.


----------



## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

Me530 said:


> That sounds like a more than fair proposal! The cap cost reduction isn't *too* much more than the amount of money tied up in the security deposits. So the OP will have pretty decent payment on the lease, as if he had 7 MSD's along with the cap cost reduction. :thumbup:
> 
> To the OP: Good luck with all of this, I know Adrian is a good guy and will work this out.


Thanks, Me530. After the MSD rate reduction and and the cap reduction, the payment is absurdly low. And that also reduces the multiple security deposit considerably.


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

Me530 said:


> That sounds like a more than fair proposal! The cap cost reduction isn't *too* much more than the amount of money tied up in the security deposits. So the OP will have pretty decent payment on the lease, as if he had 7 MSD's along with the cap cost reduction. :thumbup:
> 
> To the OP: Good luck with all of this, I know Adrian is a good guy and will work this out.


Me530 - I think you may have misunderstood the proposal Adrian sent me today. I have not been offered cap cost reduction without MSDs, but still keeping the interest rate as if I had done the MSDs. It's either MSDs with the original MF, or no MSDs with a higher MF. I'm not sure what I'd think about the offer you were imagining...I'd have to see the exact numbers. To me, there is a big difference between MSDs (which I'd expect to get back at the end of the lease) and cap cost reduction (which would not come back to me, but would be partially offset by lower monthly payments).

The two options I have been given, as I understand them from Adrian's email, are:

1) Exact same deal as we were originally talking about PLUS I pay $7k cap cost reduction. So I'd still pay the 7MSDs and get the same MF, with the same dealer profit over invoice price and same dealer markup on MF as what I was initially offered. The monthly payment would indeed be, as Adrian said, "absurdly low", and the cost of the MSDs would be lowered, but when I do the math on the numbers he sent, the overall cost to me over the 36 months would go up. Not to mention the opportunity cost of the not-inconsiderable upfront payment.

2) $7k cap cost reduction with no MSDs, but at a higher MF (because of not having MSDs). Again, same dealer profit over invoice price and same dealer markup on MF. It would mean coughing up less additional cash upfront, but the overall cost to me over the 36 months would go up quite a lot more than even option #1.

I'm pleased that Adrian is trying to come up with a solution, and hope that we can still work something out, but we're not there yet.


----------



## FastMarkA (Apr 21, 2008)

$7K cap reduction on a lease is absurd. That's money you'll never see again; it's better off sitting in the bank.

There was a thread only a few weeks ago about how the finance people are the ones who always screw things up and give dealerships a bad reputation. This looks to be a case of the salesperson wants to make things right, but the dealership/finance people are not making that possible. Yet another reason why the BMW rating system of "10" should not point at the salesperson; rather, the individual departments with which one must interact to complete a deal.


----------



## skier (Oct 19, 2004)

Me530 said:


> That sounds like a more than fair proposal! The cap cost reduction isn't *too* much more than the amount of money tied up in the security deposits. So the OP will have pretty decent payment on the lease, as if he had 7 MSD's along with the cap cost reduction. :thumbup:
> 
> To the OP: Good luck with all of this, I know Adrian is a good guy and will work this out.


I beg to differ; OP is forced into a massive cap reduction he did not agreed upon when negotiating the deal. What's so fair about it?


----------



## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

BMWFS's reason for requiring this still does not make any sense. Do they not want new customers??? The guy has great credit, and is a well established worker with high income. Whats the problem?


----------



## dannyc9997 (May 15, 2008)

skier said:


> I beg to differ; OP is forced into a massive cap reduction he did not agreed upon when negotiating the deal. What's so fair about it?


Agreed, and what if the car is a total loss or stolen? He is going to lose most or all of that money. :yikes:


----------



## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

SwissAaron said:


> Me530 - I think you may have misunderstood the proposal Adrian sent me today. I have not been offered cap cost reduction without MSDs, but still keeping the interest rate as if I had done the MSDs. It's either MSDs with the original MF, or no MSDs with a higher MF. I'm not sure what I'd think about the offer you were imagining...I'd have to see the exact numbers. To me, there is a big difference between MSDs (which I'd expect to get back at the end of the lease) and cap cost reduction (which would not come back to me, but would be partially offset by lower monthly payments).
> 
> The two options I have been given, as I understand them from Adrian's email, are:
> 
> ...


On the cap cost reduction + MSD option, it's the same overall cost as without cap cost reduction- since you're effectively buying down the payment in advance but the overall upfront expense is higher because you're paying $7,000 of the payment upfront.

And yes, we're definitely working on it together. :thumbup:


----------



## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Wow this sucks.
I would let them have the car and order another.


----------



## dalekressin (Sep 3, 2008)

Adrian would work it out.
Too bad this has occurred.


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

Kudos to Adrian for taking responsibility and hashing this out in front of a whole bunch of people who don't have any skin in the game, and yet are all to eager to see him pilloried for what appears to be someone else's mistake.


----------



## Technic (Jun 24, 2002)

FastMarkA said:


> *$7K cap reduction on a lease is absurd. *That's money you'll never see again; it's better off sitting in the bank.
> 
> There was a thread only a few weeks ago about how the finance people are the ones who always screw things up and give dealerships a bad reputation. This looks to be a case of the salesperson wants to make things right, but the dealership/finance people are not making that possible. Yet another reason why the BMW rating system of "10" should not point at the salesperson; rather, the individual departments with which one must interact to complete a deal.


Yes, it is.


----------



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Adrian - I guess the dealership regardless had to pay for the car with the OP in Europe. What would have happened if the dealership hadn't paid for the car, and the OP went to take delivery at the Welt?


----------



## adrian's bmw (Feb 14, 2003)

chrischeung said:


> Adrian - I guess the dealership regardless had to pay for the car with the OP in Europe. What would have happened if the dealership hadn't paid for the car, and the OP went to take delivery at the Welt?


Chris, correct- the center gets invoiced for the car regardless. Unless we send a cancellation to ED, the car gets delivered. Period.


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

adrian's bmw said:


> Chris, correct- the center gets invoiced for the car regardless. Unless we send a cancellation to ED, the car gets delivered. Period.


Sounds like that's the flaw in the system.


----------



## SwissAaron (Jan 20, 2011)

Nobody deserves to be pilloried. 

In fact, Chris hints at a good point, which is that the real pain in this situation would have been if we'd arrived in Munich, 5 year-old in tow, hotels reserved along the route, to find out there was no car for me...that would have hurt...there would have been tears, and maybe not just from my kid! 

Maybe Adrian protected me from that, or maybe the financing problem was discovered later...either way, he's done exactly what all businesses should do in an ideal customer service world...he's taken responsibility on behalf of his dealership (even if it wasn't his personal fault) and is trying his best to work it out. He has already spent much of his Saturday dealing with this and now he has another idea and has asked me for some information which he hopes will enable him to get me the original deal. 

I don't know if it'll work, but worst case scenario is I got a fantastic ED experience and a great vacation with a free M3 rental. Sure I'd be disappointed and would miss out on the pleasure of getting to drive the car every day, and I might have a few evil thoughts about the criteria used by BMWFS in their decision-making, but in the end nobody died, it's just a car, and whether I get it or not won't effect my life very much. And either way, I imagine when I'm next ready to do an ED, I'll email Adrian first...I'm willing to bet he'll never let this particular problem happen to one of his customers again! :thumbup:


----------



## SD ///M4 (Jan 24, 2011)

SwissAaron said:


> Nobody deserves to be pilloried.
> 
> In fact, Chris hints at a good point, which is that the real pain in this situation would have been if we'd arrived in Munich, 5 year-old in tow, hotels reserved along the route, to find out there was no car for me...that would have hurt...there would have been tears, and maybe not just from my kid!
> 
> ...


I have to admire you for your level-headedness, your calm demeanor, your unwillingness to dump the blame on Adrian, and in general just how you've handled yourself and your approach to this dilemma. I assume your bedside manner is just as good.

As the worst case scenario, a fantastic ED experience and a free M3 rental during a great European vacation is a scenario some could only dream about. I hope that everything works out to your satisfaction and you're able to enjoy your new M3, and many more BMWs and EDs!


----------



## fishskis (Dec 18, 2004)

darbyogill said:


> Kudos to Adrian for taking responsibility and hashing this out in front of a whole bunch of people who don't have any skin in the game, and yet are all to eager to see him pilloried for what appears to be someone else's mistake.


Well said. Adrian has a great reputation. I have not bought a car from him, though I have had a few conversations with him and gotten some quotes; he was great to deal with.

Mistakes happen; apparently Adrian will remedy the situation with a reasonable solution, or the OP can walk away, having enjoyed his "free rental".

Personally, I did not agree with the advice to name the dealer. I would have tried to work it out with the dealer, then name him after the situation was (hopefully positively) resolved.


----------



## pharding (Mar 14, 2004)

darbyogill said:


> Kudos to Adrian for taking responsibility and hashing this out in front of a whole bunch of people who don't have any skin in the game, and yet are all to eager to see him pilloried for what appears to be someone else's mistake.


You mean like the dealership that he works for? Adrian is a representative of the dealership. Certainly the dealership benefits when Adrian picks up sales here. Likewise if the dealership screws up and they certainly screwed up that is fair game to discuss here. I give Adrian credit for manning up that there is a problem.


----------



## darbyogill (Jan 16, 2011)

pharding said:


> You mean like the dealership that he works for? Adrian is a representative of the dealership. Certainly the dealership benefits when Adrian picks up sales here. Likewise if the dealership screws up and they certainly screwed up that is fair game to discuss here. I give Adrian credit for manning up that there is a problem.


My apologies if I wasn't clear. Allow me to restate just so there's no mistake: You are the one I'm referring to when I talk of people who have no vested interest in this matter, but who are eager to see that someone is roasted over a spit. You are the one that seeks to involve lawyers before the facts are known. You are the one that I'm alluding to that wants to create nefarious intent out of an honest mistake.

I hope that clears things up for you.

I also give Adrian credit for keeping his cool as one of his deals blows up. He's skillfully walked the tightrope of public damage control and private negotiation to make sure his reputation stays intact as well as this deal.

Seems like a whole hell of a lot of work for $1k profit, of which he'll probably only see a small fraction.


----------



## Wine-O (Feb 17, 2010)

Please, I'm just a simple person. I don't understand anything about the lease program -- I always purchase.

What's the bottom line? How much $$$ has the OP lost on this obvious mistake? If he can walk away from this deal, how much out of pocket will it have cost him? :dunno:


----------



## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

darbyogill said:


> Kudos to Adrian for taking responsibility and hashing this out in front of a whole bunch of people who don't have any skin in the game, and yet are all to eager to see him pilloried for what appears to be someone else's mistake.


Yes, a lot people changed their tone when they learned it was Adrian. It makes one reflect on the velocity this thread took towards acrimony when the CA was unknown, and then just as quickly took an about face. I'd like to think most dealers would do the same, and suggest we not be so quick to condemn and assume the worst.

Dick


----------



## rmorin49 (Jan 7, 2007)

Wine-O said:


> Please, I'm just a simple person. I don't understand anything about the lease program -- I always purchase.
> 
> What's the bottom line? How much $$$ has the OP lost on this obvious mistake? If he can walk away from this deal, how much out of pocket will it have cost him? :dunno:


If he walks he is out the money spent to go to Germany, however it sounds like they had a good time and yes, they basically had a free M3 rental during their time in Europe. I'll be surprised if Adrian can't come up with an acceptable solution to this obvious oversight by the Finance Department at the dealership. Adrian is a stand up guy and a great CA.


----------

