# Rear LED Tail-Lights



## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Having the new LED tail lights on a classic design like our E46 M3, kills the look..doesnt it?

It looks great on an Infiniti G35, but the M3 has like a modern, but retro look...

What do you guys think of the LED lights on the rear of the e46 M3 and all other 3 series?


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

Riuster said:


> Having the new LED tail lights on a classic design like our E46 M3, kills the look..doesnt it?
> 
> It looks great on an Infiniti G35, but the M3 has like a modern, but retro look...
> 
> What do you guys think of the LED lights on the rear of the e46 M3 and all other 3 series?


I like the LED look. Makes it distinctive.

Alex


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## Elwood (Dec 20, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> I like the LED look. Makes it distinctive.
> 
> Alex


:stupid:

Has that nice crisp look


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

I think they look cheesy.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Plaz said:


> I think they look cheesy.


:stupid:

I still think they look like those old Lite-Brite toys...


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## Kaz (Dec 21, 2001)

doeboy said:


> :stupid:
> 
> I still think they look like those old Lite-Brite toys...


Exactly.

They could have done a MUCH better job.


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## 16hr Day (Apr 17, 2004)

Kaz said:


> Exactly.
> 
> They could have done a MUCH better job.


Don't you boys remember the rule FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. The LED's are for safety, the respond faster than the now older blub type tail lamps. When you slam on the brakes in your M3 (cause you where probably going too fast) it gives the schmuck behind you even more time to react before he hits you!! :thumbup:


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

16hr Day said:


> Don't you boys remember the rule FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. The LED's are for safety, the respond faster than the now older blub type tail lamps. When you slam on the brakes in your M3 (cause you where probably going too fast) it gives the schmuck behind you even more time to react before he hits you!! :thumbup:


 Faster by what, a ten-thousandth of a second? Given relatively glacial human reaction time, do you really think the difference between a bulb and an LED is anything but negligible?

:dunno:


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## JST (Dec 19, 2001)

Plaz said:


> I think they look cheesy.


Agreed. I am glad I've got the "old school" lights on mine.


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## 16hr Day (Apr 17, 2004)

Plaz said:


> Faster by what, a ten-thousandth of a second? Given relatively glacial human reaction time, do you really think the difference between a bulb and an LED is anything but negligible?
> 
> :dunno:


it is probably no shorter than a blink of an eye, but isn't that when accidents happen? Faster is still faster. In the end who really cares? The only one watching your tail lights are all the OTHER guys!!! :bigpimp:


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## flashinthepan (Jul 25, 2003)

A non-issue with me.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

16hr Day said:


> Don't you boys remember the rule FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. The LED's are for safety, the respond faster than the now older blub type tail lamps. When you slam on the brakes in your M3 (cause you where probably going too fast) it gives the schmuck behind you even more time to react before he hits you!! :thumbup:


I think this issue has been debated here ad nauseous.

Alex


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

Riuster said:


> Having the new LED tail lights on a classic design like our E46 M3, kills the look..doesnt it?
> 
> It looks great on an Infiniti G35, but the M3 has like a modern, but retro look...
> 
> What do you guys think of the LED lights on the rear of the e46 M3 and all other 3 series?


Agree with you completely. :thumbup:


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## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

BahnBaum said:


> I think this issue has been debated here ad nauseous.
> 
> Alex


Yeah, but Dave prolly deleted the thread :rofl:


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## akflyer (Jun 13, 2003)

I think they look great.


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## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

akflyer said:


> I think they look great.


I'm good with them, too. But I do see what Doeboy was seeing when he said they reminded him of the Lite Brite toys...










Alex


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## Mr. E (Dec 19, 2001)

16hr Day said:


> The LED's are for safety, the respond faster than the now older blub type tail lamps.


I think the safety reason you mean is that they're adaptive--they glow extra bright during a "panic" stop (whatever that threshold is). I'm sure the difference in time before light-up is negligible.

As for the aesthetics, I kinda dig 'em.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

Plaz said:


> Faster by what, a ten-thousandth of a second? Given relatively glacial human reaction time, do you really think the difference between a bulb and an LED is anything but negligible?
> 
> :dunno:


are we talking about a norman human being..or a half human..here...hahahaha


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

you know what..forget the retro modern look..lets just go modern..I ordered the lights from pacific, got the retro fit instructions, and will have a dealer repogram my computer....all in all..costing about 600 bucks...

Im a progressive guy....I say...JUST DO IT!!!


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## bren (Jul 1, 2002)

Mr. E said:


> I think the safety reason you mean is that they're adaptive--they glow extra bright during a "panic" stop (whatever that threshold is). I'm sure the difference in time before light-up is negligible.
> 
> As for the aesthetics, I kinda dig 'em.


But how does the guy behind you know that they are "brighter" than any other time you hit the brakes?

And yeah, they look silly


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

Mr. E said:


> I think the safety reason you mean is that they're adaptive--they glow extra bright during a "panic" stop (whatever that threshold is). I'm sure the difference in time before light-up is negligible.


The safety reason is attributed to LEDs reaching full brightness much faster than a conventional bulb. If you've followed a car with LED lights, you'll notice, and it draws your eye more because it looks more unnatural. As for adaptive, the 3 sedans have adaptive brake lights as of March '03 production with conventional bulbs.


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## Riuster (May 21, 2003)

FenPhen said:


> If you've followed a car with LED lights, you'll notice, and it draws your eye more because it looks more unnatural.


I have to agree...I just stare at LED lights..its HYPNOTIC.... :yikes: :yikes: :yikes: :wow:


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## ThePleaser (May 23, 2004)

I got into my first major accident as I was distracted by slowly illuminating filament brake lights. Before realizing that the low-tech brake lights were in fact *on*, I slammed into their back end.

Sorry,
I just like to read my own jokes. I'm killing myself.

Seriously though, are the new 04 M3's using adaptive breaking? That's where it's at.


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

ThePleaser said:


> Seriously though, are the new 04 M3's using adaptive breaking?


Yes, the new M3s with LED tail lights have Brake Force Display. I saw it in action at the last track school in Vegas.


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## Mpire (Mar 28, 2003)

Seems silly to me. I think its just another way to charge us an arm and a leg when they break instad of 20 cents for a bulb.


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## ThePleaser (May 23, 2004)

FYI: LED Lights not only have near perfect energy to light efficiency but they nearly never "burn" out. For this reason, traffic lights are moving to LED. It is brighter and they don't have to change burned out bulbs any more. I'll enjoy not having to replace this light bulb.


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## colinexl (Mar 26, 2004)

Hey all.. someone said that LED's don't offer much in terms of safety compared to normal incandescent bulbs, so I did some calculations myself. Taking into account the time it takes for LED and bulbs to start emitting light, the average human reaction time, and the distance lights has to travel to reach the following driver for him to press down the breaks. LED on average takes about 1 nanosecond to emit light, compared to 0.2 seconds for normal bulbs to emit light. We all should know that light travels at approximately 3.00E8 meters/second, or 9.84E8 ft/second. The average human reaction time that I used is 0.5 seconds. People who are 65 - 85 years old have slower reaction time of 0.75 seconds and drag racers usually have a lot less like 0.2 - 0.4 seconds. So I assumed the average joe is about 0.5 second. The average speed on the freeway that I used is 70 MPH which is 102.67 ft/second. The following distance from car to car is 3 seconds behind the car in front, which is 308 ft between cars. So doing all the calculations for the LED, (1 nano second + time it takes for light to reach the following car + reaction time) x 102.67 ft/second = 51.33 feet. For the bulb, it takes about 71.87 feet, a difference of 20.53 feet! Which means that a driver following a LED taillight would've braked 20.53 feet sooner than if he had being following a normal taillight =). And in emergency situations, even an inch of difference will save lives! So LED does have safety advantages over incandescent bulbs =)


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

colinexl said:


> Hey all.. someone said that LED's don't offer much in terms of safety compared to normal incandescent bulbs, so I did some calculations myself. Taking into account the time it takes for LED and bulbs to start emitting light, the average human reaction time, and the distance lights has to travel to reach the following driver for him to press down the breaks. LED on average takes about 1 nanosecond to emit light, compared to 0.2 seconds for normal bulbs to emit light. We all should know that light travels at approximately 3.00E8 meters/second, or 9.84E8 ft/second. The average human reaction time that I used is 0.5 seconds. People who are 65 - 85 years old have slower reaction time of 0.75 seconds and drag racers usually have a lot less like 0.2 - 0.4 seconds. So I assumed the average joe is about 0.5 second. The average speed on the freeway that I used is 70 MPH which is 102.67 ft/second. The following distance from car to car is 3 seconds behind the car in front, which is 308 ft between cars. So doing all the calculations for the LED, (1 nano second + time it takes for light to reach the following car + reaction time) x 102.67 ft/second = 51.33 feet. For the bulb, it takes about 71.87 feet, a difference of 20.53 feet! Which means that a driver following a LED taillight would've braked 20.53 feet sooner than if he had being following a normal taillight =). And in emergency situations, even an inch of difference will save lives! So LED does have safety advantages over incandescent bulbs =)


Impressive!


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## E60James (Nov 22, 2004)

Yeah, VERY impressive. I thought I was back in Physics class again!


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## weoilmen (Dec 16, 2003)

*Safety LED's*

LED's do not burn out!=Safety
LED's use less power less electrical draw
:dunno:

Yes they can look cheesey, 
But I don't see them burned out on Semi Trucks now.
I can now see their running lights on a Foggy day and night!

Just call me a Commuter :drive: 
Seasons Greeting,
Mike T


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

weoilmen said:


> LED's do not burn out!=Safety


[hijack]
On a message board that presumably has a large number of programmers, *!=* reads as "does not equal." :typing: 
[/hijack]

Anyway, how long are transportation-standard LEDs supposed to last? I don't think I've ever seen a burned-out LED in any application.


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## Plaz (Dec 19, 2001)

colinexl said:


> compared to 0.2 seconds for normal bulbs to emit light.


Is that right? That sounds pretty long... any reference to support this?


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## SteveM (Aug 6, 2002)

FenPhen said:


> [hijack]
> On a message board that presumably has a large number of programmers, *!=* reads as "does not equal." :typing:
> [/hijack]
> 
> Anyway, how long are transportation-standard LEDs supposed to last? I don't think I've ever seen a burned-out LED in any application.


I've seen plenty of traffic light LED indicators burned out. I suspect that it's the electronic driver that fails and not the LED itself.


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## AeroG (May 12, 2003)

i happen to like the LED tailamps. At least BMW made the turn signals LED as well, unlike my G35, all Mercedes products w/ LED brakelight option, the 7 series Volvo S80, etc. I think the Z8 has them all beat are those LED's , I know for certain they aren't conventional bulbs. :dunno:


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