# Should BMW annual maintenance cost this much?



## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

I am about to buy a 2001 BMW 530i for $9,500 with 95,000 miles.

It has been serviced by a BMW main dealer and I just got a copy of the service records from the dealer listing what has been done over the last few years.

The current owner spends between $2,000 and $2,800 on average, on maintenance every year, so far the following work has been done and on these years:

External Temp Senors (2010)
Oil filter housing gasket (2010)
Fan Belts (2010)
Electrical System Final Stage (2010)
Reseal Oil Filter Housing (2010)
Oil Pipe (2010)
New Battery (2010)
All new Tires (2010)

Water pump (2008)
Thermostat & Housing (2005) & (2008)
Various Wiring Loom Tears (2005) & (2008) & (2010)
Front Brakes & Rotors (2008)

Valve Cover Gasket (2007)
Washer Pump & Housing (2007)
Expansion Tank (2007)

Drive Belts (2006)
Power Stearing Hose (2006) & (2008)
Front Coupled Suspension (2006)
Real Ball Joints (2006)

Camshaft Sensor (2005)

No history before this.

This seems like a LOT of work & in total ads up to about $8k (50% of which is labor)!

Is this list of repairs & cost normal?

Do it look like any major parts might need replacing soon that have not been done?

Really afraid this might indicate I am buying a lemon!

Thanks for any advice.

* 13 hours ago
* - 3 days left to answer.

Additional Details
Not sure if 100% of this work was required, the guy who owned it was 86 years old and I suspect the dealer took him for a ride.

Looking at this list, half the car is under 5 years old 

The car drives like a brand new one, took it out today and there are no rattles or squeaks at all, like a tank to drive......but would want to be after these costs.

I would expect to spend maybe $800 - $1k a year on a car this old, a non-main dealer would charge half the labor cost of BMW


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

That is about right.

This is based on my personal experience and what Mike Miller of Tech Talk will tell you as well.

For a 3 series out of warranty, you can expect to pay about $1500-1800/year in maintenance, IF you are the type that fixes stuff and don't let it go. I owned 2 different 3's and I averaged $1800/year on both of them over a period of almost 20 years.

For a 5 series out of warranty, you can add about another $1k to that.

For a Seven, throw another $2k/year on that. This is why out of warranty 7 series are known as "Mechanics cars" as mechanics are the only guys who can afford to own them and maintain them properly.

Now having said that the next 3 posts will be someone with 400,000 miles on their 740iL and all they ever paid for were oil changes. That is an anomaly.

BMW's are expensive cars to own and maintain once the warranty has expired. Period.


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

I am hoping the car will be OK for 1 - 2 years after which I'll get something a bit newer.

Are there any major service tasks required or know issues for these cars between 100k and 130k miles?


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## Elias (Jun 26, 2005)

If you call your local BMWCCA they can reccommend a local Indy in your area that will help you reduce the cost of regular maintenance and repairs. In some situations you save as much as half the cost compared to the Dealership prices.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

BMW auto trannies will generally last between 80 and 120K miles. If the trannie did not receive regular fluid changes, say every 30 - 40Kmiles, I would expect it to fail before it got to 130K.

I would also expect the radiator is not in very good shape either. Same reason...failure to regularly flush and replace the coolant will kill a radiator in 10 years and that's how old this car is.

OTOH you could get lucky and make it through to the time you sell it.


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

Auto Trannies only last between 80 and 120k!! Wow, that is.....shocking really. 

I know the transmission fluid was changed at 80k, but that was about it as far as I can tell.

I am going to have it inspected on Monday morning by a local German auto shop with good reviews.

Do you think its worth getting an extended warranty? Any experience of these.....do they actually cover parts that normally go wrong?


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

$2,000-$3,000 per year is normal and is cheaper than car payments.

I had a 1983 Chevy truck for 10 years in the '90's and it cost about $2,000 every year in repairs/maintenance. It was creepy, how it always came out within $100 of $2,000 every year.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

irishman_irl said:


> Auto Trannies only last between 80 and 120k!! Wow, that is.....shocking really.


BMW doesn't manufacture transmissions. They buy automatics from ZF and GM. These transmissions are the same as or very close to the automatics used in other brands of cars.

The lifetime varies hugely depending the the model of the transmission, the car it is in and how the car was driven. Our 318ti was fine at 130,000 when our daughter blew up the engine and my old 535i was going strong at 250,000. I've since sold the car, but a 300,000 mile life isn't uncommon for the old ZF 4HP22.

On the other hand the ZF 5HP19 trasmissions found in some e46 323i's often fail before 100,000 miles. Early 1st generation MINIs with the Rover "Midlands" 5 speed manual fail all the time.

Might want to check on the e39 forum to see if that particular car is know for any transmission problems.

With an 86 year old as the previous owner I doubt you will have transmission or guibo disk problems anytime soon.



> Water pump (2008)
> Thermostat & Housing (2005) & (2008)


From that list, I'd say this car is due for a radiator and hoses any day now. The radiators have plastic end tanks that get brittle and break. Changing the coolant isn't going to extend the life of the plastic parts. If this had been my car, I would have put in a new radiator along with the water pump and thermostat back in '08.

If I took the car home this week, I'd be ordering new hoses, ALL the hoses, along with a radiator and a thermostat. Might do the water pump again too. Kinda depends on what kind of water pump went in 2 years ago. Pick up a gallon of coolant from the dealer on my way home from work next Friday and have a good weekend project.

Reseda Radiator in California rebuilds BMW radiators by putting new plastic end tanks on good used aluminum cores. Last time I checked, they still did mail order and the prices were far cheaper than dealer. You can also get all aluminum radiators that should outlast the car but they are expensive.

You are possibly looking at needing some rubber bushings needing replacement. Suspension bushings wear out.

Nothing on that list is unusual for a car of that age.

And yes $2000 a year is about right. For all dealer service that is on the low side. BMW dealers charge a fortune for labor. The trick to owning a BMW over 4 years old is to know where to get parts, what to do yourself, know what to pay an indy for and know when you have no choice but to go to a dealer.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

irishman_irl said:


> Auto Trannies only last between 80 and 120k!! Wow, that is.....shocking really.
> 
> I know the transmission fluid was changed at 80k, but that was about it as far as I can tell.
> 
> ...


It COULD last longer but the problem is you can never tell. I only buy manual trannies but in my wife's vehicles, she gets automatics. I always make sure the fluid is changed about every 30K miles. She has owned 2 Ford Taurus's (Tauri??) that each tranny was running well when we gave them away with 190,000 miles on each. Her last vehicle was a 99 Lexus RX300 that the tranny was doing well with 175K on it when we sold it. Her 2008 RX350 just turned over 30K and I just had the tranny and front and rear dif fluids changed in it as well.

Would all of these cars made it so long on the original tranny without regular fluid changes???? No way to tell really. But changing fluid is way cheap compared to a replacement tranny.


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## gtxragtop (Feb 25, 2008)

Tires, batteries, brakes, rotors, filters, plugs, coolant changes, O2 sensors at 100K miles are considered normal maintenance and should not be included in your costs. All vehicles include these


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

TRS550 said:


> It COULD last longer but the problem is you can never tell. I only buy manual trannies but in my wife's vehicles, she gets automatics. I always make sure the fluid is changed about every 30K miles. She has owned 2 Ford Taurus's (Tauri??) that each tranny was running well when we gave them away with 190,000 miles on each. Her last vehicle was a 99 Lexus RX300 that the tranny was doing well with 175K on it when we sold it. Her 2008 RX350 just turned over 30K and I just had the tranny and front and rear dif fluids changed in it as well.
> 
> Would all of these cars made it so long on the original tranny without regular fluid changes???? No way to tell really. But changing fluid is way cheap compared to a replacement tranny.


A lot of money has been spent on the car and from the feedback I am getting, this is normal for a well kept BMW. If I do buy it, won't bring it to the main BMW dealer - local, highly rated indie shop charges half the labor rates that the main dealer does.

Tranny fluid was changed at 50k miles, will have it done again if I buy it - roughly how much should this cost?

Another tip I got was to replace the plastic OEM water pump with a steel, high performance one and replace the plastic engine pulleys with stronger aluminum ones - has anyone ever done this?


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

If the tranny fluid was replaced at 50k, you're ahead of the game. Replace it again when you get it and now your car has a decent chance of going 150-180, even 200k on that tranny as long as you keep changing it regularly.

I want to say that it cost me about $250 or so to have the wife's Lexus tranny fluid changed but they also did the front and rear differential fluid as well and the whole bill was around $400. But that was at a Lexus dealer and I cannot remember exactly what the cost breakout was.

FWIW...while they are under there you might as well have them change the differential fluid as well.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

irishman_irl said:


> Another tip I got was to replace the plastic OEM water pump with a steel, high performance one


A reasonable suggestion if you plan to keep the car more than about 6 years. The all-metal water pumps cost more, but should last longer. No comment on the pulleys. Don't know about them.

Sounds like you've found a good car. It won't be trouble free. 9 year old BMWs never are. But it won't need a ton of work either.


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

I think the OEM pulleys are just plastic and can fatigue easily - esp if the car is driven on rough roads, I found metal pulleys for $13 each, depends on how much the mechanic wants to install them if I do it or not.

Going to have the car tested tomorrow morning anyway, will let you know what we find.

I noticed in the KBB this car is valued at $8.5k rather than the $9.5k the guy wants for it.........if the mechanic finds nothing wrong with the car, do you think having the extra service history on the car is worth an additional 1k?


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

So I had it checked out and it has the following issues:

1. Slight rattle from inside the driveshaft - mechanic said its nothing in the transmission or engine, will need to be rebuilt in about 40 - 50k miles, goes away once car is in drive or reverse 
2. Front lower ball join inner boot torn - but does not need work for 1 - 2 years
3. Small oil sweat on engine
4. Right front fog glass is broken
5. Front lower air dampener is distorted
6. Lip of right rear wheel is damaged

What do you think? I'm really not sure if this is normal for a car with this many miles or if this is a lemon.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

No, I don't think you have a lemon. Stuff wears out. Remember...this is a 10 year old car. A good rule of thumb for buying a used car is that it will take 10% of the purchase price to clean up the minor repairs etc....

Overall I think you're doing well.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

No, I don't think you have a lemon. Stuff wears out. Remember...this is a 10 year old car. A good rule of thumb for buying a used car is that it will take 10% of the purchase price to clean up the minor repairs etc....

I would take the KBB value and use that to negotiate down.

Overall I think you're doing well.

Damn double post....


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks for that - I like your 10% rule!

When the mechanic said there was noise coming from the drive shaft I thought it was going to be game over then and there - seen $$$$ signs flashing before my eyes! Its not loud and only happens when the transmission is not in any gear....will need to see what its like after a few days driving around I guess.

There is a light layer of sludge in the engine under the oil cap, the mechanic said to take it on a long "aggressive" drive and it should burn off.

As people have recommended, going to get the transmission fluid changed once I take possession.

For some reason, the current owner has four different brands of tire in each corner and none of the thread patterns are the same, I'm sure this must have some impact on performance?


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

irishman_irl said:


> So I had it checked out and it has the following issues:
> 
> 1. Slight rattle from inside the driveshaft - mechanic said its nothing in the transmission or engine, will need to be rebuilt in about 40 - 50k miles, goes away once car is in drive or reverse


ho hum. Guibo in another 50,000. Maybe less up and down the hills in SF. They don't last forever.



> 2. Front lower ball join inner boot torn - but does not need work for 1 - 2 years


I'd budget to do both sides in a year. This is a repair I've done myself a few times. Bought the tools for it.


> 3. Small oil sweat on engine


. If you can see it, take a rag to it and keep the engine clean. Otherwise ignore.



> 4. Right front fog glass is broken
> 
> 5. Front lower air dampener is distorted


Somewhere in the last 9 years the car has found a few rocks. You can fix these, use them to get the price dropped or not.



> 6. Lip of right rear wheel is damaged


How bad?



> I'm really not sure if this is normal for a car with this many miles or if this is a lemon.


This car is *nine years old.* No this is not normal. Car is in unusually good condition.

A lemon would be a car that had been to the dealer 4 times for a leaky sunroof, twice for the nav system, and 5 times for the traction control light on.

Multiple attempts to fix a leaky sunroof point to a misaligned body and a car that can never be repaired. That is what I'd call a lemon.


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

irishman_irl said:


> For some reason, the current owner has four different brands of tire in each corner and none of the thread patterns are the same, I'm sure this must have some impact on performance?


First thing you've posted that gives me some concern. What likely happend is one tire got a puncture that could not be repaired. Owner choose to replace just one tire instead of a pair. Then it happend again. Result is 4 mismatched tires.

As long as the rear tires are the same diameter, the car should be ok. Still, I'd want to match up the tires.


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## TRS550 (Jan 2, 2010)

Andrew*Debbie said:


> First thing you've posted that gives me some concern. What likely happend is one tire got a puncture that could not be repaired. Owner choose to replace just one tire instead of a pair. Then it happend again. Result is 4 mismatched tires.
> 
> As long as the rear tires are the same diameter, the car should be ok. Still, I'd want to match up the tires.


Maybe Pep Boys had a sale or something!!!


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## irishman_irl (Mar 13, 2010)

One interesting thing I noticed on Carfax for the car was that car was imported from China when it was new, but on the receipt it says the car was assembled in Germany.

I didn't am guessing (hoping) that the car was just shipped to the US via China - rather than being built in China?


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## Andrew*Debbie (Jul 2, 2004)

irishman_irl said:


> One interesting thing I noticed on Carfax for the car was that car was imported from China when it was new, but on the receipt it says the car was assembled in Germany.
> 
> I didn't am guessing (hoping) that the car was just shipped to the US via China - rather than being built in China?


It is highly unlikely the car has ever been to China. BMW builds cars for the US in Germany, South Africa, South Carolina and England. Magna Styer builds e83 X3s under contract for BMW in Graz, Austria. While BMWs are built at a plant in China, none of them are sold in US. < http://www.brillianceauto.com/brands/bmw.html >

We've toured the South Carolina and Oxford, England plants.

The 11th digit of the VIN is the assembly plant. This is not a complete list but you will probably find the car was assembled in Dingolfing.

A	Munich, Germany
B	Dingolfing, Germany
C	Dingolfing, Germany
D	Dingolfing, Germany
E	Regensburg, Germany
F	Munich, Germany
G	Munich, Germany
J	Regensburg, Germany
K	Munich, Germany
L	Spartanburg, South Carolina
N Rosslyn, South Africa
P Regensburg, Germany
T Oxford, England
W Graz, Austria


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