# Any chance? M4 Euro Delivery



## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

hyperzulu said:


> Sounds like you'd have a hard time getting a dealer to allocate a car for ED in that case. They are not obligated.


Can you elaborate? Why wouldn't they do ED for you if everyone was making just as much profit (I'm not saying more)? What am I missing? In fact, it's even better, since there is some possibility of them not getting the bonus, albeit unlikely.

I don't think I'd have a hard time at all. Get on a waiting list now, and just pay as much as you would with a normal US delivery, having them assign the allocation to ED. I would make sure the CA knew now that I was expecting to do ED, and would be willing to pay US MSRP. And if they were expecting to sell over MSRP, I'd just find a dealership that was taking a list and selling at MSRP.

You're in SoCal. You may want to contact Jon or Greg to see what they would need you to pay to get an M4 allocation for ED.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

chrischeung said:


> Can you elaborate? Why wouldn't they do ED for you if everyone was making just as much profit (I'm not saying more)? What am I missing? In fact, it's even better, since there is some possibility of them not getting the bonus, albeit unlikely.
> 
> I don't think I'd have a hard time at all. Get on a waiting list now, and just pay as much as you would with a normal US delivery, having them assign the allocation to ED. I would make sure the CA knew now that I was expecting to do ED, and would be willing to pay US MSRP. And if they were expecting to sell over MSRP, I'd just find a dealership that was taking a list and selling at MSRP.
> 
> You're in SoCal. You may want to contact Jon or Greg to see what they would need you to pay to get an M4 allocation for ED.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding. For regular vehicles, the dealer gets no trunk money on ED orders, which is why you get a discount.. For M cars is that not the case since it comes out of dealer allocation (i.e. they do get trunk money on the sale)? If they do not, then they lose that money on every ED order, which makes it pretty lousy for them if they could otherwise sell the car at MSRP and get the bonus.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

hyperzulu said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding. For regular vehicles, the dealer gets no trunk money on ED orders, which is why you get a discount.. For M cars is that not the case since it comes out of dealer allocation (i.e. they do get trunk money on the sale)? If they do not, then they lose that money on every ED order, which makes it pretty lousy for them if they could otherwise sell the car at MSRP and get the bonus.


You're misunderstanding. M cars do have an ED discount even though they do come out of dealer allocation - http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Explore/Experience/EuropeanDelivery/OrderYourBMW.aspx. You are correct that they do not get that bonus on any car that is delivered via ED, M or not.

All you need to do is make up for that bonus amount in what you pay for ED if you are getting an M car which is in high demand. Unless a dealer "owes you one", they won't sell such a car at ED MSRP. But US MSRP should be very doable with some I expect.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks for the clarification. That makes more sense now.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

Some folks may say they get a "raw deal" by not getting an ED discount. I view it a little differently. You really get everything you would with US delivery (car, shipping, etc). You don't get the usual ED discount that almost everyone enjoy, but you get the experience of a new car, at the Welt, driving in Germany. That value is in the eyes of the individual. But I wouldn't be surprised if some folks paid US MSRP for M4 EDs - I pay MSRP on a whole bunch of stuff - doing so on an in demand car isn't too much of a stretch.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

You will pay the price for getting the latest toy from XBOX, PSx to cars. Just for comparison, my two M3 ED, 2008 and 2013, there was a saving of $10K (with incentives rebates). The 2008 ED M3 was based on US delivered pricing and last month's ED M3 was based on ED pricing. You can do ED for most, if not all, European cars. Porsche does it but no discount. Dealer will gladly do it.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

valeram said:


> You will pay the price for getting the latest toy from XBOX, PSx to cars. Just for comparison, my two M3 ED, 2008 and 2013, there was a saving of $10K (with incentives rebates). The 2008 ED M3 was based on US delivered pricing and last month's ED M3 was based on ED pricing. You can do ED for most, if not all, European cars. Porsche does it but no discount. Dealer will gladly do it.


That is pretty significant. I shouldn't say never, but I'm not sure I would be comfortable losing out on so much in savings. I'm by no means thrifty, but also not the type to shrug off several thousand dollars. I guess I'll have to weigh my options, but being able to get a 650i M-sport for several hundred less per month, with rebates, incentives, euro delivery, and favorable rates on my side, seems a better way to go in the mean time if the car suits me. The M4 LCI might be around the next time I'm in the market, and I won't have to swallow several grand to get it.

Who knows though... I might not even like the 6 at all. Sounds great, seems fast in a straight line... wonder how it'll feel. I won't even bother comparing it against the M4.


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

hyperzulu said:


> That is pretty significant. I shouldn't say never, but I'm not sure I would be comfortable losing out on so much in savings. I'm by no means thrifty, but also not the type to shrug off several thousand dollars. I guess I'll have to weigh my options, but being able to get a 650i M-sport for several hundred less per month, with rebates, incentives, euro delivery, and favorable rates on my side, seems a better way to go in the mean time if the car suits me. The M4 LCI might be around the next time I'm in the market, and I won't have to swallow several grand to get it.
> 
> Who knows though... I might not even like the 6 at all. Sounds great, seems fast in a straight line... wonder how it'll feel. I won't even bother comparing it against the M4.


Although it's not unheard of, I don't think it's common for folks to cross-shop the M3/M4 and 650i because they are very, very different.

If you the type that crave the performance dynamics associated with the M3/M4, I don't think the 4200lb+ 650i will meet your expectation. On the flip side, if luxury is what you are after, the M3/M4 will be a disappointment.

By the way, it would be impossible to compare anything to the M4 seeing it's not even available. There are speculations (turbo I6 with tons of torque, EPS, weight reduction, etc.), but they is no substitute for a proper test drive. And of course, the price is unknown. Assuming it starts at around $65k (about 8% increase over the e92 M3), there is still a good $20k gap between the two.


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## valeram (Oct 18, 2006)

hyperzulu said:


> That is pretty significant. I shouldn't say never, but I'm not sure I would be comfortable losing out on so much in savings. I'm by no means thrifty, but also not the type to shrug off several thousand dollars. I guess I'll have to weigh my options, but being able to get a 650i M-sport for several hundred less per month, with rebates, incentives, euro delivery, and favorable rates on my side, seems a better way to go in the mean time if the car suits me. The M4 LCI might be around the next time I'm in the market, and I won't have to swallow several grand to get it.
> 
> Who knows though... I might not even like the 6 at all. Sounds great, seems fast in a straight line... wonder how it'll feel. I won't even bother comparing it against the M4.


If you are patience (is a virtue), the best option is to wait for the wave to subside so to speak. Use your current drive until the right moment. M4 will be out on 2014 plus a couple of years before they offer the ED discount. So that will be on 2016, 3 years from now. It is easy to say and I am guilty of breaking it quite a lot.

Of course you can get the 6 M-Sports and who knows, you might like it that you will forget about the M4 or go with the M6. Now it is getting confusing.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

enigma said:


> Assuming it starts at around $65k (about 8% increase over the e92 M3), there is still a good $20k gap between the two.


I agree with everything you said. I suppose one point for me is that leasing either of these, the six is the cheaper car when considering ED discounts, despite the car being more expensive just on account of the difference between US msrp and negotiated price potential, and the higher incentives on the six (historically anyway).

I'm not cross shopping them really. I love cars and don't think one car is the only car for me. I'm sure there are several cars I would be comfortable in.

I do prefer a really sporty ride, but I was able to fall in love with the 335is despite the M3 being in my reach.

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## [email protected] (Jul 30, 2012)

I agree....if you want an exclusive vehicle like an M Car....you gotta pay more. As a dealer, we just don't get many of them!!! Why should I give the car away for
a EURO delivery when I can sell it at home for all the money?


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## lexvectigal (May 23, 2013)

valeram said:


> M4 will be out on 2014 *plus a couple of years before they offer the ED discount*.


If they ever do. As John alluded to, M cars are often out of dealer allocation, which means the deal for ED is less sweet even if you can find a dealer willing to do one for you.

My 2 cents on the M4 vs. 650i - I have the 650i (GC, but it's not worlds different in handling or power from the coupe) and can say after having owned a 3 series that you're comparing apples and oranges. It's a very heavy and substantial car. Even the regular 435 (?) will feel very different than the 650i; being an M adds a whole other layer of difference. I decided to trade a little nimble for luxury, but that's a personal decision.


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

valeram said:


> M4 will be out on 2014 plus a couple of years before they offer the ED discount. So that will be on 2016, 3 years from now.


The ED discount will be available immediately. ED department allocations are the big question mark. Those BMWNA may not release - ever again. They did if for a few years, and it probably had unintended effects/consequences from their point of view - the unverified word on the street was that dealers complained about missing out on the AVP money. As a recent example., look at the M5, out for a few years, and still not coming from ED allocation. M3s as well for that matter. No one has reported the policy as having hurt sales.

I think overall this is the right and best solution from BMW's perspective, for M cars to always come out of dealer allocation. Balancing average customers, BMW dealers, and ED. They would be better served if they communicated this though. If they were to wait say 2 years and then release ED allocations after launch, all that did was hold off people buying for 2 years. But if they never release ED allocations, then that allows people to buy almost any time, which evens out the demand. And as is usual in a model cycle, when demand is less than supply, then dealers will be willing to discount. Folks have reported getting discounts from ED MSRP on their M5s. Market forces. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but just how I would expect things to work, and to adapt accordingly.

Naturally, the best thing for us, and the ED sponsors, is if BMW allowed Ms out of ED allocation, unlimited. And while they're at it, add the Eco Credit to the M4 - after all it uses less gas, right?


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## lexvectigal (May 23, 2013)

chrischeung said:


> The ED discount will be available immediately. ED department allocations are the big question mark.


That is absolutely correct, and what I failed to say correctly in my post. This distinction is important to understand, as the discount amount is affected by whether it comes out of dealer allocation.

It is, however, not a question mark for the 4 series this MY because (as I understand it) ALL brand new models (M or otherwise) come out of dealer allocation for the first year. The M4 and non-M variants will be on equal footing for MY 2014.


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I agree....if you want an exclusive vehicle like an M Car....you gotta pay more. As a dealer, we just don't get many of them!!! Why should I give the car away for
> a EURO delivery when I can sell it at home for all the money?


Because you love us, the 'fest community, more than your incremental commission?


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## chrischeung (Sep 1, 2002)

lexvectigal said:


> ALL brand new models (M or otherwise) come out of dealer allocation for the first year.


That is not correct. Most cars do not come out of dealer allocation for their first year. For example all 3/5/7 sedans, 6 series, did not come out of dealer allocation when released. It's usually those cars in high demand relative to supply. These are usually the "niche" cars, like 1M coupe, M's, E93. I don't think even the E92 came out of dealer allocation when released. Sometimes they release cars without ED allocation restrictions, demand spikes, then they put in allocation restrictions for a while.


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## Mark K (Jun 5, 2010)

enigma said:


> Although it's not unheard of, I don't think it's common for folks to cross-shop the M3/M4 and 650i because they are very, very different.
> 
> If you the type that crave the performance dynamics associated with the M3/M4, I don't think the 4200lb+ 650i will meet your expectation. On the flip side, if luxury is what you are after, the M3/M4 will be a disappointment.


+1

Hyperzulu, ask yourself "Why do I love this car (335is) so much?", answer very honestly to yourself and then decide. I can't believe you would go for 650i if you are enjoying this 335is so much. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that there is another player coming next spring and you might want to look into it - M235i or, later, ///M2.

I know I will be looking at it very hard. European Delivery is a habit that is very hard to break  Hopefully, BMW is not going to mess up that one.


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## hyperzulu (Jul 12, 2011)

Mark K said:


> +1
> 
> Hyperzulu, ask yourself "Why do I love this car (335is) so much?", answer very honestly to yourself and then decide. I can't believe you would go for 650i if you are enjoying this 335is so much. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that there is another player coming next spring and you might want to look into it - M235i or, later, ///M2.
> 
> I know I will be looking at it very hard. European Delivery is a habit that is very hard to break  Hopefully, BMW is not going to mess up that one.


Lots of options, for sure. All different cars, the 2, 4 and 6. I think the reasons why I love the 335is and why I am even considering the 650i is because I like the daily driver strengths of the 3. I think the 6 can be a daily driver for a single guy. It may have the advantage in being able to make a quick voyage out of town, say to Santa Barbara. Of course, it loses in making a connection with the driver, like the smaller cars and even more so when compared to the M's.

I would have been happy in different cars. What enamored me to the IS was the look, power, sound and the excellent DCT transmission when mated to this engine. I will miss that, since I think even though the ZF 8HP is a great tranny, it's not quite as engaging. The DCT really lets the engine keep pulling wit little perceptible loss in acceleration during gear changes.

I guess we will see if the M manages to capture me the same way the 335is did. If it doesn't, I may just go with the 6. :dunno:


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## VMcV3y (Jul 6, 2011)

SD Z4MR said:


> I'm planning Euro Delivery for my M4 in the spring of 2015 or 2016.


+1 Spring 2015!

- V

.


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