# BMWhat Carly Killed Lighting System



## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

I'm not sure anyone else has had problems with BMW Carly, but I've been having issues with it ever since I received it. And yes, I have their Carly bluetooth adapter.
But, as the title says, my lighting system (FRM in the app) has failed while I was loading from the Carly app. I simply wanted to change the turn signal blinks back from 1 blink to 3 blinks (I actually never changed this in the app - it apparently changed it on its own when I loaded it the 1st time). And that is when I got the error message and practically none of the electronic components work (windows, interior lighting, etc.).
I tried to do a backup but the app keeps giving me a failure to communicate with the FRM. I disconnected the negative battery over night with no success and the battery is fully charged.

Has this happened to anyone?
Need help please.


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

Have you tried contacting the software creator?

Usually you get a response quickly.


Also, I have never had it write to the system on it's own so not sure what happened there. For me, it reads what is currently programmed to the car.

Had anyone messed with your FRM prior to you? New car/Used?


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Yes. I am still waiting for a response from Carly people.

No one has messed with it since I have owned it which is about 1.5 years.
It actually crashed while I was loading the coding from Carly app.
Someone else posted about this happening with Carly also back on 9-18-15 over on e90post forum. I am eagerly awaiting his response as I have asked if he has fixed.

Thanks


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

I can't imagine this having any relation, but I had just filled the DEF tank up and was clearing that code as well in the Carly app before doing the turn signal coding.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Update:
I am getting news that this app is causing others issues as well over on the e90post forum. Still waiting for BMWhat Carly app developer to reply to my issue. I am pretty steamed about this as I had planned to do a 500 mile round trip today. 
I will try to keep this thread updated with any news.
Thanks.


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## grussell (Feb 2, 2014)

Did you run diagnostics? Do you have codes? Did you battery voltage drop too low while coding? I ask as my battery voltage dropped below 12v while I was coding the FRM and it bricked it. Even an Indy shop was unable to communicate with the FRM with their equipment. I have coded the replacement FRM about 2 dozen times since all with my engine running since with no issues. Also coded my sons e92 and my wifes Mini R55.


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

Sounds to me like you lost voltage or had a break in communication. Wifi isn't 100% connected and you always have the option of picking up a bad packet or two. The amount of noise in a wifi signal is insane because it is shared. 

If it crashed while actually writing the code to the module then you are in for a heap of trouble. That being said, it very well could have been your iPhone that caused an issue if the app has worked fine in the past. If the app had recently updated it's more likely that the app caused the crash. I have the android version so I can't check out your release history for you or I would. 

I know how bad it sucks to be without your ride and even worse when it's so much fun to drive. My EKP failed on me and it would always be at random so driving around was like playing car Russian roulette. I do like that you are updating as you find more info. Just keep in mind that there are many components that could have failed during this operation. Coding a vehicle comes with no warranty. It's a game I play too and I am waiting for the day that it bites me.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Battery never lost voltage or even dipped below 90%
Yes, ran codes and FRM obviously is not communicating - i forgot the codes, but sent them to Carly. They are still playing back and forth with me saying they sent me an email from another guy from their company...they don't seem concerned.
I use android samsung galaxy s5
all apps were forced closed in foreground and background so memory was not an issue. Used blutooth - not wifi.

Here is a quote from e90 post forum from another member:
"I have been seeing more and more people brick their FRM with the Carly app.

Coding should not brick a module. Even if the process is interrupted, you should still be able to connect and default the module.

I suspect the Carly app is causing these failures."


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Following is a couple threads from e90posters

"I was adjusting some of the systems on my '10 E92 328i. Did the apply coding button and now I get a "Lighting System Malfunction" and the ECU for lighting is "greyed" out on the app. 

Help!

Any idea what I can do?"


"Carly scrambled my FRM module so bad my turn signals didn't work properly, auto headlights wouldn't come on, various other problems. I had to bring it to the dealer to have the FRM diagnosed and reflashed because it was failing inspection. Needless to say I stopped screwing around with the lights on Carly. 

Actually I have pretty much lost faith in the product as a whole. I was told TPMS delete was going to be coming, now I hear it isn't. E92 battery not re-programmable even though I paid for it, seems like everything they are doing is now is an add on etc. 

Scrambling modules is a biggy though, I don't have the time or feel like paying dealership money to have to undo Carly mistakes."


"Couldn't agree more. 

Anybody want to buy a Carly adapter?"

I am still researching...


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

Harsh. I have heard of iphones making trouble for the carly users.

well, good luck either way.

FYI though, the statement that coding should not brick the module is highly incorrect. It's like flashing a cell phone, you mess up in the middle and you have a brick. It's actually that way through most of the programming world. What you need is a boot failsafe from carly. 

It would appear that carly is having some trouble with a few models at this point. Guess that's why they put that disclaimer on the coding screen. 

If I had an extra module laying around I would send it your way.


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## protecon (Sep 27, 2015)

BigGreeneGuy said:


> Harsh. I have heard of iphones making trouble for the carly users.


That's a good point - are you using the Android or iOS version of Carly?


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

I use android. i actually have a dedicated tablet just for my car diagnostics and programming. Since we have a few BMW cars in my family, it just made sense.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Ok. Finally got a response from Carly...

"f they haven't repaired it yet, you can actually do it yourself in about an hour.

We actually have some experience with this:
About a year ago we had the same issue with two FRMs (E90). We sent the defective control units for analysis to a specialized ECU development company in Switzerland. There they found out that the internal memory had a hardware failure which resulted in a boot-lock.
The error has nothing to do with the coding (it wasn’t even located in the coding memory), but was due to a broken memory unit which was responsible for part of the boot sector. The app cannot even access this part of the memory. The coding and diagnostics memory was still intact when we isolated it from the rest of the ECU.
Since the FRM (and also many other ECUs) have to be restarted to apply the settings, it looked as if the app had something to do with the broken FRM at first. However, because of this very reason the same would have happened via conventional PC-coding. You can actually find quite a couple of threads in many forums about broken FRMs after coding with PC.
You can actually compare this issue to a conventional PC:
If an error in the MBR (master boot record) happens, while your PC is running, there is no immediate effect. However, as soon as the PC is restarted (e.g. after an update) the PC doesn’t start anymore and shows a blue screen. It now looks like the update has caused the problem, even if in fact it is something completely else.

Since last year we talked with many professional coders and researched this issue on the internet and it seems that mainly FRM control units are affected by this bug. I've heard that BMW is very well aware of that problem and even had some callbacks for these FRM versions. We're already looking into this to find out which versions were called back, so we can identify them within the app itself."

I responded to see what the "1-hour" fix is and how. I will post with more news (fingers crossed).


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

Hopefully they get that 1 hr fix info to you asap


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## protecon (Sep 27, 2015)

BigGreeneGuy said:


> I use android. i actually have a dedicated tablet just for my car diagnostics and programming. Since we have a few BMW cars in my family, it just made sense.


Hmm - I've just ordered the Android version of Carly last week.
Will let you know if I run into any similar issues.


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

protecon said:


> Hmm - I've just ordered the Android version of Carly last week.
> Will let you know if I run into any similar issues.


Please do.

From what I can tell it seems the E90's are having the most trouble out of it. I have an E60 and have no issues at all (2 different E60's)

I hate that a program that is so good and helpful is having issues. Happens to the best of them though!


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Nivermind... (apparently crossing fingers does not work)

Here is their reply...

"Must have mixed up your mail, sorry for the mistake.
Changing the FRM takes about an hour. You just need to find a replacement one.
You can either get a used one or a new one. Please let me know how I can help you 

Best regards from Munich"

What a let-down:thumbdwn:


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

*Sad trombone sound*


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

there is an add on ebay offering FRM3 repairs in Bulgaria by Softelectronic.com.

"We repair the following underwritten problems for BMW FRM3 Module:
- Software troubles

- Hardware troubles"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-FRM3-Mo...-E84-E87-E92-E93-Repair-Service-/221612038625

Anyone have some insight on this as a DIY or is this way too involved with specialty equipment and not worth the time?
If the later, then does anyone know someone in the states that could repair FRM's instead of buying used and/or new and risk bricking again just to update to our individual car - since they are so susceptible to failure?


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

BigGreeneGuy said:


> Harsh. I have heard of iphones making trouble for the carly users.
> 
> well, good luck either way.
> 
> ...


Thanks for looking out :thumbup:


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Just some FYI from other post:


" This is the 4th or 5th instance I have read about in the past month"

"In the 5-6 years I have been coding, I have never seen anyone brick their FRM like this on any of the coding forums..."


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## fdriller9 (Oct 19, 2006)

BigGreeneGuy said:


> Harsh. I have heard of iphones making trouble for the carly users.
> 
> well, good luck either way.
> 
> ...


FLASHING/PROGRAMMING can indeed brick a module because you are re-writing the software.

CODING is perfectly safe to do and I have personalty lost coms with modules while coding and was able to reconnect and default the coding after the fact.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

fdriller9 said:


> FLASHING/PROGRAMMING can indeed brick a module because you are re-writing the software.
> 
> CODING is perfectly safe to do and I have personalty lost coms with modules while coding and was able to reconnect and default the coding after the fact.


I'm not sure what you are saying with your above comment. Are you implying we are FLASHING/PROGRAMMING or CODING or All?

Our problem is a loss of communication to the FRM and, therefore, cannot "reconnect" to do anything further.
And/or are you implying that the app or connecting device (BMWhat Carly bluetooth OBD2 adapter) has caused our problem?

I am just trying to get to the bottom of this so I do not brick another FRM (if possible) and let others be cautioned of the threat.


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## fdriller9 (Oct 19, 2006)

Directorusa said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying with your above comment. Are you implying we are FLASHING/PROGRAMMING or CODING or All?
> 
> Our problem is a loss of communication to the FRM and, therefore, cannot "reconnect" to do anything further.
> And/or are you implying that the app or connecting device (BMWhat Carly bluetooth OBD2 adapter) has caused our problem?
> ...


My reply was in response to the person I quoted and what I highlighted in bold.


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

To be honest, I would try to snag one from a part out and install. I don't know how much I would trust an ebay repair person. 

sometimes you get lucky and don't have to have them programmed. 


Looks like Carly is not the only programming software to brick the FRM. NCSExpert, NETTODAT, and Carly have all "bricked" FRM modules. I seriously doubt that Carly was the sole cause of your issue since it seems to be across the board. 

You can try NFS Emergency to try to recover if you have/can get the tools.

video is on e90 (showthread.php?t=849434) 


Good luck!


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

fdriller9 said:


> My reply was in response to the person I quoted and what I highlighted in bold.


OK, but my question still begs to be answered. If not by you, someone else.


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## fdriller9 (Oct 19, 2006)

BigGreeneGuy said:


> To be honest, I would try to snag one from a part out and install. I don't know how much I would trust an ebay repair person.
> 
> sometimes you get lucky and don't have to have them programmed.
> 
> ...


Nettodat coding is a coding done within NCS Expert. It is coding, not flashing.

WINKFP is what can brick a module. This program is used to flash modules.

Flashing should never be done over a wireless connection or even a CAN cable. Modules should ALWAYS be flashed over ICOM.


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## fdriller9 (Oct 19, 2006)

Directorusa said:


> I'm not sure what you are saying with your above comment. Are you implying we are FLASHING/PROGRAMMING or CODING or All?
> 
> Our problem is a loss of communication to the FRM and, therefore, cannot "reconnect" to do anything further.
> And/or are you implying that the app or connecting device (BMWhat Carly bluetooth OBD2 adapter) has caused our problem?
> ...


The Carly app is CODING, not flashing or programming.

I can't say for sure if the Carly app is the culprit but it does seem like it.

I have coded hundreds of cars and have never had an issue with coding the FRM or any other modules.

When coding is bad, faults will store within the module indicating "coding erroneous." You should still be able to connect to the module to pull these faults and also default the coding.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

fdriller9 said:


> The Carly app is CODING, not flashing or programming.
> 
> I can't say for sure if the Carly app is the culprit but it does seem like it.
> 
> ...


So your recommendation for coding in the future is using the programs you mention above in previous posts?

Thanks for the input/feedback.


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

fdriller9 said:


> FLASHING/PROGRAMMING can indeed brick a module because you are re-writing the software.
> 
> CODING is perfectly safe to do and I have personalty lost coms with modules while coding and was able to reconnect and default the coding after the fact.


Yes and no. Programming is coding depending on the module and what is being changed. Due to the way the modules work, some parts are written as variables while some parts are written as static and must be changed as so.

I have lost comms many times while coding my car as well. No issues here.

It's like compiling code for a program on a computer. Yeah, you can rewrite code but for it to actually work as intended you would need to recompile as a whole program again which takes a write command.

The car modules are set to read-only and the software changes that flag to write mode. You make your changes and then write it to the system. Upon the final write, the software will then set the flag back to read-only. You car can read the module again.

Any changing of the module settings/code/firmware can result in a brick if an operation fails for any reason. Most of them have a failsafe to revert back to read-only but not all of them.

For sure WINKFP is a brick waiting to happen if one is not careful and wireless connections are to be avoided when flashing.

I think best solution is to try the emergency procedure since you have nothing to lose at this point. Worst case you still need to get it repaired or get a new one. Invest in better/wired tools.

Fdriller and I can go on and on about the different experiences we have. He wins on number of cars programmed for sure but I have a lifetime of programming/coding behind me. We are both right and wrong. At the end of they day it's about getting your car up and running since none of us know what happened to kill your module.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Thank you for the explanation.

It is just troubling, eye-opening, concerning, and seems coincidental that, here recently, the Carly app is causing these failures. Unless... Carly has surged in popularity/sales and all us novices/noobs are just now using it for coding. I dont know - like I said, just trying to get to the bottom of this. Thanks everyone.


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## BigGreeneGuy (Mar 31, 2009)

Concerning for sure!

It did surge for sure. They had a group buy option on a forum a while back that I know a lot of people jumped on that. Try searching for related posted with the old name (BMWhat) as a comparison to see if there are a ton of bricking reports. 

Now is Carly perfect? Not at all. It very well could be the root of the problem. Will I code an E90 anytime soon? haha nope. 

The only difference between a noob and a pro is how many times they have failed but learned from it. 

I would like for you to get to the bottom of it as well. Actually, so much so that I am doing all types of research on E90 FRM modules and have never owned one. 

Fdriller, what do you use to code your cars? It would be nice to know what set up would be idea. I don't think Carly should be a permanent solution for anyone.


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## fdriller9 (Oct 19, 2006)

Directorusa said:


> So your recommendation for coding in the future is using the programs you mention above in previous posts?
> 
> Thanks for the input/feedback.


The BMW Standard Tools Suite is much more reliable as is a actual, physical cable connection.



BigGreeneGuy said:


> Concerning for sure!
> 
> It did surge for sure. They had a group buy option on a forum a while back that I know a lot of people jumped on that. Try searching for related posted with the old name (BMWhat) as a comparison to see if there are a ton of bricking reports.
> 
> ...


I use suite mentioned above. NCS Expert for coding. WinKFP for flashing modules. Tool32/INPA for diagnostics as well as ISTA /P and /D.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

A little more FYI, but has anyone heard about recalls concerning FRM's as Carly developer states?

"Since last year we talked with many professional coders and researched this issue on the internet and it seems that mainly FRM control units are affected by this bug. I've heard that BMW is very well aware of that problem and *even had some callbacks for these FRM versions*. We're already looking into this to find out which versions were called back, so we can identify them within the app itself."

I asked Carly developer..."What do you mean by "callbacks"? Recalls?
So, is there anyway I can repair the FRM on my own or is it a total loss?"

He states..."Yes, recalls.

In the logs you've sent the FRM didn't respond at all. I've read in an X5 forum once, that they could re-flash it but I haven't tried that myself.
I've asked one of our mechanics and he's told me that the PC program is called "WinKFP". However it's not really easy to use.
The fastest option to fix the problem would be to find a suitable used FRM and just replace it. If it is the same module variant (e.g. Bi-Xenon + adaptive head lamps) as the one in your car, it will work straight away."


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## fsd350 (Aug 1, 2006)

In my recent experience the FRM's are pretty sensitive. On my e90 335d I disconnected the battery a few times during certain services with no issue. My battery had read a consistent 12.25v during this period, not fresh but not totally gone either. This last time during disconnect/reconnect I fried the module (typical symptoms). I replaced it and coded with NCS expert no issues. I do have the Carly app and have not used it to code any lighting/FRM features, but used it to code a new battery and it was very convenient.
In my experience, many things are available now for people to jump into which they do not take the time to understand/respect or do not have an aptitude for. I wonder if use/misuse of the app is not causing some of these issues. Examples being: not waiting for the app read/write to complete, using the app without doing a fresh reboot of the device (I would never even consider hooking my laptop up to any of my cars with a lot of services/programs running in the background), coding without having a charging source or engine running, coding with a depleted battery or accessories running such as the radio or lights. There may be a problem with Carly, but common sense is no longer common and neither is accountability. Just my 2 cents. BTW, the last time I disconnected the battery, I remember not being patient enough for my car to go to "sleep" and I forgot to turn the lights off. The next thing I bought was an FRM, go figure.


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## m5james (Nov 1, 2005)

I'm desperate :-/

http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18656981#post18656981


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## Thebonzor (Mar 18, 2015)

Just one question, which type og WIFI adapter did you use? Common ELM327 adapter or Carly's own adapter?


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Thebonzor said:


> Just one question, which type og WIFI adapter did you use? Common ELM327 adapter or Carly's own adapter?


If your question is directed at me - I used Carly's "Best Adapter for BMWhat".


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## Thebonzor (Mar 18, 2015)

Sorry about the confusion, yes the question was directed to you.
Is this the Generation 2 adapter?
I've got a Carly Generation 2 adapter my self, but haven't been able to test it out yet.
BMWhat cant code F** series at the moment, but I am told they are working on it.


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## Directorusa (Sep 24, 2015)

Thebonzor said:


> Sorry about the confusion, yes the question was directed to you.
> Is this the Generation 2 adapter?
> I've got a Carly Generation 2 adapter my self, but haven't been able to test it out yet.
> BMWhat cant code F** series at the moment, but I am told they are working on it.


Im not sure of the version, but I ordered it about a month ago so I would have to assume it is the latest version.


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## Thebonzor (Mar 18, 2015)

Ok, the one i have is labeld BMWhat OBD Generation II 
This is for iphone/ipad only


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