# Now Tesla's in Trouble!



## Idleup (Jan 1, 2015)

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2015/02/1...+(BimmerFile+/+BMW+News,+Reviews+and+Podcast)


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## czarmar (May 23, 2006)

One thing I have to say is that the term 'Tesla Killer' is getting worn out. Every pundit out there thinks that someone else (Apple/GM/BMW/etc) is going to come up with something to make Tesla irrelevant. They say that anyone can make a car that gets 250 miles per charge, well so far Tesla is the only one doing it. Tesla has no competition for luxury highway ranged EVs. I'm sure that eventually Tesla will have competition, but I don't see anything changing in the next 2 years. Tesla will continue to dominate this segment. I'd love to see more choices, but even this is good for Tesla as more people are drawn towards EVs.

If Tesla puts its efforts towards battery manufacturing capacity and technology, I predict that they are going to be the market leaders in EVs for some time. They do need to find ways to scale their production capacity, but I think they will find a way.


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## Idleup (Jan 1, 2015)

The Tesla is already irrelevant, other manufactures with high technology electric cars such as BMW, Porsche and GM have virtually left left the simple "battery Only " Tesla out in the cold. 

Tesla's futile attempts to pass off a vinyl upholstery car with no features in black or white color as a luxury car for $70,000 is insane. One has to spend $100 to even get close to the features a luxury owner would expect. 

In addition, while Tesla has been sending out a lot of "Gear Chatter" on the new Tesla 3 - BMW I3 has taken the market over as will Apple with the Model S!

Speaking of Tesla batteries, I'm not sure just how High-Tech" Tesla is in that field either to have 7000 PC laptop batteries requiring 14,000 connection in their electric car!

Regards


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## czarmar (May 23, 2006)

Idleup said:


> Tesla's futile attempts to pass off a vinyl upholstery car with no features in black or white color as a luxury car for $70,000 is insane. One has to spend $100 to even get close to the features a luxury owner would expect.
> Regards


Considering that the i3 (which I am a fan of BTW) requires $2500 to get leather rather than recycled plastic bottles, and that there's exactly one non grayscale color available for the i3, I disagree with your statement. Teslas appear to be maintaining their value quite well on the used car market so far. I think BMW is quite famous for standard vinyl upholstery in luxury cars if you don't opt for the premium package. Both 528i and x5 35i have vinyl as base trim.

The technology in the i3 is very impressive. A 250# life module made out of CFRP is incredible. BMW has done a great job with the aluminum skateboard chassis, and there's a lot to like about the i3. However there's something apologetic about the gas range extender, in that it is saying that the charge infrastructure and battery capacity aren't quite there - don't get me started about the 1.9-2.4 gallon gas tank for the REx. Typically you can't charge a battery in 5 minutes, and typical batteries will get you only 80 miles down the road. So most EVs ask you to make life style changes and calculate your trips, where Tesla says charge your car, and don't worry about the range. When you get low, spend 30 minutes at a DC supercharger and head out for another 150 miles. It's a much easier transition from a ICE car.


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## PumpkinBimmer (Apr 1, 2008)

The Tesla will be gone by 2022, the next American Cord. And, unlike E.L. Cord, Elon Musk has no prior connections with the transportation industry.

It's hard to start and nurture an automobile company, even if you're from the industry itself. Just ask John DeLorean and Henrik Fisker.


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## Idleup (Jan 1, 2015)

PumpkinBimmer said:


> The Tesla will be gone by 2022, the next American Cord. And, unlike E.L. Cord, Elon Musk has no prior connections with the transportation industry.
> 
> It's hard to start and nurture an automobile company, even if you're from the industry itself. Just ask John DeLorean and Henrik Fisker.


I agree and with companies like Apple in it with their ability to buy the best technology makes Mr. Musk's fortune appear as if he's cutting lawns for a living.

The Tesla was a fluke because there was nothing else on the market, just the right wheel of a Bmw I8 has more technology than the entire Tesla.


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## bredi (Feb 13, 2005)

if you are a car lover that appreciates good handling, speed, quickness and a connection to your car... (like a bmw), than you will at least appreciate a Tesla Model S for the same. Its revolutionary, and can hold its own on every performance and safety level as any well built car. It just happens to not stink while doing so.


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## PumpkinBimmer (Apr 1, 2008)

My daughter (now 18) has driven an S85 extensively, as well as my i8. She says there is no comparison. The Tesla is dead, a refrigerator on wheels. The i8 is a driver's machine.

BMW will be around in 2022. Tesla, no. It will probably be owned by Hyundai by then.


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## Idleup (Jan 1, 2015)

Other than on a straight run, the Tesla would be absolutely worthless up against the I8 on any type of circuit or track requiring handling or cornering! 

Its also important to note there are dozens of electric cars with even quicker speeds. Building a fast electric car is not rocket science - in fact the propulsion is easier than a gas powered car, it just involves loading the car with batteries!


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## bredi (Feb 13, 2005)

Worthy actually. The i8 is a two seater sports car. The tesla is a full size five adult (+2kids )passenger sedan. Which can compete against sports cars. The mere fact it is even in a conversation with an i8 proves its worthiness.
Two entirely different cars. Both amazing in their segments. And no, the Tesla p85d is the quickest and fastest production electric car on the road.


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## Idleup (Jan 1, 2015)

I totally agree they are two different cars with different purposes!

I know a lot of guys mention the rear seat is worthless - but we use it often, here's an image with two adults and yes there is leg room for them - maybe someone can jump in here but i understand the reason BMW made it a 2+2 is because it qualifies for better insurance rates!

Thanks


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## bredi (Feb 13, 2005)

Where are they? jk.

Doesn't look comfortable. But for short trips in a pinch...

I assume the driving dynamics change with the added weight in the car?


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## czarmar (May 23, 2006)

bredi said:


> ...the Tesla p85d is the quickest and fastest production *sedan* on the road.


I think I'd throw out the Dodge Challenger Hellcat because it is very hard to launch. Under most conditions, I think the Challenger loses in spite of its higher potential. You'd need slicks to make up for the AWD advantage. And there's no comparison on the street. Under almost any conditions, the P85D pedal response will kill the Hellcat up to highly illegal speeds.

The P85D is an amazing car that shouldn't be compared to an i8, but a 7 series. If you compare with a car that is in the same class, the Tesla compares quite favorably. My guess is many people who are in the market for a 7 series are at least taking the Tesla for a drive. I'm betting that EVs are the future, and the car industry is about to undergo the most substantial revolution in the next 20 years since the first car scared the horses.


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## Idleup (Jan 1, 2015)

bredi said:


> Where are they? jk.
> 
> Doesn't look comfortable. But for short trips in a pinch...
> 
> I assume the driving dynamics change with the added weight in the car?


The reason I put it up is because a lot of reviews deem it un-usable however it can be used - I don't think you would want to go cross-country but the seat will work to take a friend along.


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## Philjans (Mar 7, 2015)

*Tesla has nothing to worry but all the old car manuf do!*

When we talk about the Future: the gas car don't belong in it, only the electric cars.

So, on this, Tesla is the leader and the others are just followers.

Now if Apple comes into the game it would not to be for building dinosaurs fossil fuel gas engine cars! it will be to build the future... which is electric cars so those who will be impacted are old gas engine company like GM Mercedes and Toyota! 
All of them need to stop building oldies cars and start building electric cars if they want to have a chance to survive.

Now where is the game will rage on in the electric car world is :
1- Battery technology
2- Charging Infrastructures

And that's a fact.
And now who's on top of everyone else in those 2 fields?? Yes it's TESLA and they are well ahead of them (and everybody else for that matter).

They are the only one investing MASSIVELY in battery technologies development. No one ELSE does!

And they are the ONLY ONE investing MASSIVELY in the charging infrastructures. No one ELSE does!

With today's BMW itty tiny pathetic batteries: yes the CCS combo do the job but when new high capacity batteries will it the market, the thousands of current CCS chargers will need to be upgrade at a massive cost while the SuperCharger are already way ahead of them...

Tesla has all the ACES for it to CONTINUE to be the leader, all except 1 and it's the cash-flow....
Which Apple has... and plentiful. So the question is only : How Musk will continue to bring up the cash to continue his growth.

That said: I like my i3 and it's 70-155kms batteries do the job ok...


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## PumpkinBimmer (Apr 1, 2008)

One thing no one is discussing, which is a big deal for BMW, is sustainability. The new i cars are built using special methods in a special factory with sustainable energy sources. The materials are easily recyclable. BMW is looking at the total package for future automobile development. And living it with the i cars. Tesla? Not so much. The only ground breaking things are the enormous weight of the 7,000 batteries, the bland styling, the unimaginative big computer screen in lieu of an elegant driver centric solution, and a big ass battery plant in Nevada.

Whoop de doo.

Tesla will be gone by 2022, absorbed into a car company since you need a huge amount of capital these days to advance technology and Tesla's competition is just getting started. Musk can't do what car guys like Fisker and DeLorean before him couldn't do.


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## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

Posts stripped.

I say again, be nice.


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## neve1064 (Mar 16, 2012)

I test drove a Tesla today. I'll really enjoy driving it til 2022, thanks. I like personalities like De Lorean; it's just the anti - establishment part of me. I love the Tesla. We were going to buy a 650i GC.


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## LucM (Mar 3, 2015)

Welcome to the fold neve1064! You will LOVE driving it. And then you will LOVE when the car gets better after a software update that happens one day while you sleep. 2022 is a long way away. Somehow I think Tesla will make it beyond that date. Everyone trying to go after them should tell the average thinking person that they did something VERY VERY right.


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## bredi (Feb 13, 2005)

Yep, once you drive a Telsa, everything else seems archaic. The i3 and the i8 are the closest thing it in terms of the future of what is on the road today.


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## u3b3rg33k (Jan 14, 2015)

PumpkinBimmer said:


> The Tesla will be gone by 2022, the next American Cord. And, unlike E.L. Cord, Elon Musk has no prior connections with the transportation industry.
> 
> It's hard to start and nurture an automobile company, even if you're from the industry itself. Just ask John DeLorean and Henrik Fisker.


Everyone laughed at the idea of Apple, and yet look at them now. don't count them out just yet.


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