# BMW to drop analog gauges in favor of LCD display on refreshed 5 and 7 series



## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

jayster0966 said:


> Totally agree with yorgi on this one! Got to leave the basic important functions to the analog then can back that up with multi function digi gauge cluster. Just do not make it like high end vehicles were if you use the SatNav you lose the speedo.


+1
Give us an analog speedo and tach. Then add an engine information screen to the i-drive.
Since more and more engines are turbocharged.....how about boost and EGT (before the turbo) at the very least, IAT (downstream from the intercooler), oil pressure, oil temp coolant temp, volts, amps, would be nice to have. Also since this is digital on the i-drive color monitor, color code the display, blue (below normal operating range), yellow (avoid high power operation), green (normal operating range), and red (high temp / low oil pressure)


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## S93D (Apr 24, 2008)

Bad idea. Too complex, not enough benefit.

Sure, I'd like an oil pressure gauge. If you give me more gauges, why not an oil temperature gauge, ammeter, voltmeter, and, for conversation, an altimeter. However, not at the price of unreliability.

My vote is No. If BMW continues to go this route (of being impractical), no BMW for me. Mercedes Benz already has gone down that path and I gave up that brand. True, it's nice to say "I have a BMW" but there are limits to that.

As far as impracticality, the run flat issue is not quite there. I do see benefits. However, there are also big drawbacks for having no spare, especially if one is in a small town on a trip.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Doesn't Jag already do this on their newest Range Rover and XJ?

Personally, don't care.


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## SteVTEC (Feb 16, 2005)

Agree with a lot of the other comments. Great idea, lots of neat possibilities, but just enough very expensive electronic gizmo that's either going to malfunction or fail, and not be cheap to replace when it does.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

Well, the current instrumentation is already extremely complex, computerised, and expensive, so it's not a huge step in terms of risk.......


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## jmoney6 (Jul 15, 2008)

it will most likely look nice and function well, but why flaunt something other manufacturers have been doing for years?


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

AzNMpower32 said:


> Well, the current instrumentation is already extremely complex, computerised, and expensive, so it's not a huge step in terms of risk.......


Yes, overly complex already, so why add more potential points of failure? LCD panels are not the most reliable, and when the LCD panel goes, so the do all the instrumentation gauges. While I won't deny the benefit of being able to customize the instrumentation panel, I am not sure if the added risk is something I want to take.

I would compare this with the engine start/stop button. I still don't see the benefit of putting the fob into the dash and pressing the button vs. twisting the good old key. While keeping the key in your pocket at all time maybe an advantage for some, it comes at the expense of not being able to recharge.


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## TerraPhantm (Nov 22, 2004)

enigma said:


> Yes, overly complex already, so why add more potential points of failure? LCD panels are not the most reliable, and when the LCD panel goes, so the do all the instrumentation gauges. While I won't deny the benefit of being able to customize the instrumentation panel, I am not sure if the added risk is something I want to take.
> 
> I would compare this with the engine start/stop button. I still don't see the benefit of putting the fob into the dash and pressing the button vs. twisting the good old key. While keeping the key in your pocket at all time maybe an advantage for some, it comes at the expense of not being able to recharge.


LCDs themselves are fairly reliable. If they use LED backlights (which I imagine they will) you probably wouldn't have to worry about the backlight failing either. What tends to be unreliable are the electronics that drive the display, but as Aznmpower32 said, the electronics in the clusters are already rather complex. I doubt reliability will be very different.

With that said, I'm not really a fan of the idea. I might be able to deal with it if they use an extremely high-res display (think retina displaly on the iPhone)... otherwise the pixelation will annoy the **** out of me.


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## enigma (Jan 4, 2006)

TerraPhantm said:


> LCDs themselves are fairly reliable. If they use LED backlights (which I imagine they will) you probably wouldn't have to worry about the backlight failing either. What tends to be unreliable are the electronics that drive the display, but as Aznmpower32 said, the electronics in the clusters are already rather complex. I doubt reliability will be very different.
> 
> With that said, I'm not really a fan of the idea. I might be able to deal with it if they use an extremely high-res display (think retina displaly on the iPhone)... otherwise the pixelation will annoy the **** out of me.


Of course, when I say the LCD panel isn't the most reliable component, I am referring to the LCD and the controller (i.e. electronics).

I can show you all the electronic components whose LCD panels have given up long before anything else, including TVs, Laptops, cellphones, etc.

The LCDs suffer from two distinct weakness: off-axis viewing and visibility in sunlight. Some technological advancements have sought to solve these problems (e.g. IPS vs. traditional TN), but these inherit problems are still there. Some manufacturers, like Samsung, have introduced new technologies like AMOLED, and Qualcomm is about to introduce Mirasol, but I am still highly doubtful this technology is still adequate to mitigate the issues.


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## tagheuer (Jun 10, 2004)

this yet another example of why I may leave BMW as a brand.

year in and year out they keep adding "features" that no one really seems to want and, more importantly, do not improve the driving experience.

Its obvious to me why automakers, especially BMW, keep doing this. They add content because its MORE PROFIT.

The more electronics and gizmos they can stuff into their vehicles (i.e. iDrive, internet connectivity, heads up displays, laser cruise control, electronic gauges) the more $$$ they make.

Finally, they keep moving closer to being a luxury auto and further away from sport.

Its not this particular "feature" that bugs me, but all of the electronics in general....it just costs you more $$$ and doesn't really improve your driving experience. :thumbdwn:


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## ThoreauHD (Feb 27, 2006)

Does Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley, or Rolls Royce have digital screens for mission critical gauges? I don't know, I'm just asking.


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## Fifty_Cent (Sep 17, 2003)

tagheuer said:


> this yet another example of why I may leave BMW as a brand.
> 
> year in and year out they keep adding "features" that no one really seems to want and, more importantly, do not improve the driving experience.
> 
> ...


Driving experience has reached its peak with the E46/E39 range... they then have to add some more features in order to make people buy the newer designs...Please tell me, does anyone noticed a real difference moving from the E46 to an E90? I mean compare like with like, ie 330i with 330i, not 318i with 335i....


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## cwinter (Feb 3, 2009)

It is bound to happen eventually. I am sure they'll do a good job with it.


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## cwinter (Feb 3, 2009)

ThoreauHD said:


> Does Porsche, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley, or Rolls Royce have digital screens for mission critical gauges? I don't know, I'm just asking.


The Italia 458 has an analog (at least I think it is) RPM gauge in the middle and two screens to each side. These screens can display the nav map, a digital speedo, and other gauges/info.


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## Yorgi (Mar 17, 2005)

I can just see it now.

*Honestly officer, I did not realize how fast I was going because the sun had washed out my LCD speedo.*


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## Tangent (Jan 18, 2004)

I like it. If they use a transflective display it won't wash out even in direct sunlight and I doubt the complexity is really going up much. My E46 has digital guts in the cluster; they're just driving stepper motors instead of an lcd. This arrangement has the potential to actually be lighter and more durable as well as having the customization options. Most race cars left analog gauges behind years ago, it's about time street cars did too.


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## TerraPhantm (Nov 22, 2004)

enigma said:


> Of course, when I say the LCD panel isn't the most reliable component, I am referring to the LCD and the controller (i.e. electronics).
> 
> I can show you all the electronic components whose LCD panels have given up long before anything else, including TVs, Laptops, cellphones, etc.
> 
> The LCDs suffer from two distinct weakness: off-axis viewing and visibility in sunlight. Some technological advancements have sought to solve these problems (e.g. IPS vs. traditional TN), but these inherit problems are still there. Some manufacturers, like Samsung, have introduced new technologies like AMOLED, and Qualcomm is about to introduce Mirasol, but I am still highly doubtful this technology is still adequate to mitigate the issues.


Idk, of all the LCD failure I've had over the past 10 years or so, all of them were backlight failures. The panels themselves still worked fine. I do wonder how the heat of being parked in the sun will effect the displays though. I would hope that BMW would perform some rigorous tests for such a crucial device though

AMOLED isn't an LCD technology and likely won't be used in automotive applications since their performance in the sun truly is atrocious. I suspect BMW will use a transflective IPS display - shouldn't be any visibility issues in sunlight in that case... at least not any more significant than the glare that is sometimes present when the sun reflects off the plastic cover of the traditional cluster. IPS displays have 178 degree viewing angles in both the vertical and horizontal directions, which is more than sufficient for automotive purposes.


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## ThoreauHD (Feb 27, 2006)

cwinter said:


> The Italia 458 has an analog (at least I think it is) RPM gauge in the middle and two screens to each side. These screens can display the nav map, a digital speedo, and other gauges/info.


Thanks. Wasn't familiar.


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## AzNMpower32 (Oct 23, 2005)

cwinter said:


> The Italia 458 has an analog (at least I think it is) RPM gauge in the middle and two screens to each side. These screens can display the nav map, a digital speedo, and other gauges/info.


I think Jeremy Clarkson noted the flaw with that: You can have a sat nav OR a speedometer but NOT both. :rofl:


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## MikeTerp (Feb 3, 2007)

Just give us a dipstick back. Sometimes hooking everything up to a computer is not a good idea. Simpler is often better and more reliable.


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