# Spotted: X5 test mule and an unknown 3er variant....



## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

I ain't no Beewang...but I'm in Owens Valley, CA for the weekend and looky what I saw at Mono Lake today:

I asked Hans a couple of times what was up with the "twice pipes" on the 3er and he kept walking away saying that he did not know what I was talking about. One of the guys was NOT happy with my picture taking and proceeded to move the X5 type vehicles behind our tour bus. One of the Z4's had South Carolina plates....almost everybody in the BMW clan was speaking german.

      

"Hey you! stop taking pictures!"


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## mng (Oct 15, 2003)

:jawdrop: 

nice work! m3 sedan? only single exhausts, tho. was the front bumper different?


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## mguhler (Nov 20, 2004)

*nice pictures*

This looks an awful like an X3...what what what???


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## The Other Tom (Sep 28, 2002)

New M3 :dunno: 

Did the Z4 have quad pipes ?

Was this near Lee Vining ?


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## FierySphere (Jul 11, 2004)

Given the twin pipes and the obvious camoflage on the fenders, I'd say it's an E90 M3 mule.


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## mng (Oct 15, 2003)

FierySphere said:


> obvious camoflage on the fenders


:dunno:

i don't see any camo?


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

Frank Rizzo said:


> I ain't no Beewang...but I'm in Owens Valley, CA for the weekend and looky what I saw at Mono Lake today:
> 
> I asked Hans a couple of times what was up with the "twice pipes" on the 3er and he kept walking away saying that he did not know what I was talking about. One of the guys was NOT happy with my picture taking and proceeded to move the X5 type vehicles behind our tour bus. One of the Z4's had South Carolina plates....almost everybody in the BMW clan was speaking german.
> "Hey you! stop taking pictures!"


LOL!! Nice job there Franko!!  Now.. email to autoweek and get your free annual subscription 

Yeah, that sounds about right... Munich engineers here in the US to test out new cars. What's up w/ these guys wearing funky blue tennis shoes?? The German dudes I ran into when the E90 was still top secreat were all wearing the same thing :eeps:

Gonna haveta keep up w/ ya on this spy picture business 

beewang :bigpimp:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Damn DUDE... how the hell did you manage to snap off those photos?!?! :yikes: 
Seriously... I would be asking for a lot more then a years subscription. :thumbup: 
I think the cars you see w/ dual pipes are Turbos. Just an educated guess... there's NO WAY its M3 material... unless they are doing nothing but drive train work... but even then... on 325i ZSP wheels and tires? Don't think so. Looks more like a possible ZHP replacement. :thumbup:


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## Jon Shafer (Dec 15, 2001)

Way to go Rizzo!

:thumbup:


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## beewang (Dec 18, 2001)

SpeedFreak! said:


> ...I think the cars you see w/ dual pipes are Turbos. Just an educated guess...


 :slap:

Its turbo DIESEL McFly!! Helloooooeee!!! As in 335iTD duh!!


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## DaveH (Sep 25, 2003)

Frank:

Great job.

Did you hear the 3 series start up? If it wasn't a gas engine, it could be the new 3.0 diesel that they might bring over stateside when we get no-sulfer fuel next year.. The diesel needs larger exhaust flow (more pipe area) than a gas engine of the same size. There appears to be a little soot on the lower portion of the pipes on that car.

Great close-upson the camo X3 mule. WTF are they hiding?


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

I eyeballed the interior of the 3er and it was for sure was not ///M material....regular steering wheel, headliner and the front end was completely the same as the current 3 sedan...wish I would have looked at the tachometer....did not even think about being diesel. I kept following Franz around pestering him with questions: "that cant be the new M3?....is it some sort of ZHP"? A: I do not wish to be rude but I kannot speak of these things of this nature right now" 

They never started the car and look relieved when I got on the bus to leave. 

.


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## JonM (Jan 28, 2002)

M version of X3? You should watermark those photos pretty quick. Heck of a find by you.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

JonM said:


> M version of X3? You should watermark those photos pretty quick. Heck of a find by you.


Deff. watermark... incredible find! :thumbup: 
My vote is for "ZHP" versions of X3 and E90. Very high probability of Turbo... both gas _and_ diesel... I wish you could have heard them... I still can't believe they didn't stop you sooner... un-freakin' believable. That is so incredibly cool.


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## Steveo8998 (May 10, 2005)

Have you seen a picture of the new X5... it looks alot like a Bubbly Blown-up X3... i think we all might be looking at the new X5.......... :dunno:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Steveo8998 said:


> Have you seen a picture of the new X5... it looks alot like a Bubbly Blown-up X3... i think we all might be looking at the new X5.......... :dunno:


I've seen the photos your speaking of... there is no way this is the same one or even close. This one is way to small... it's clearly an X3. Look closely. :thumbup:


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## gmlav8r (May 28, 2003)

My 3 cents:

V8 3er
X3 Diesel with new body to look more like new 3er body

How about the winner of this guessing game gets a bimmerfest sticker?


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## ObD (Dec 29, 2001)

Nice scoop. 'Festers are everywhere, :bigpimp:

Based on the aluminum front grills on these mules, I'd say they were turbos. Hopefully only diesel turbos. They need to drop in a V8 for the E90 M3. Gasoline turbos suck and are for girly men. :str8pimpi


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

SpeedFreak! said:


> I've seen the photos your speaking of... there is no way this is the same one or even close. This one is way to small... it's clearly an X3. Look closely. :thumbup:


Looks like an X3 to me.

Obvious differences include twin exhaust split on each side unless that is part of the fake bumper.

On the rear side by side shot of the X3's I see one has roof rack and the other not.

However - how can they have the exact same licence plate numbers?

One with roof rack - the other without. The one without is toting a trailer hitch.

One with an antenna in addition to the shark fin?

Side body moldings? on the X3 and a possibly a similar bonnet to the E90 in relation to the kidneys...........


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## car_for_mom (Jul 15, 2002)

ooooooh! *Diesel* in *California* - could it possibly be??????

I thought diesels were _verboten_ in Ah-nold's state? :eeps:

Kudos to you, Mr. Rizzo! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

Dear Californians, are those special registration plates that they get for test mules?


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

JG said:


> Looks like an X3 to me.
> ...
> However - how can they have the exact same licence plate numbers?
> ...


The BIG numbers will all be the same for the company... up to a point... the differentiator is the little number you see to the right...


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

SpeedFreak! said:


> The BIG numbers will all be the same for the company... up to a point... the differentiator is the little number you see to the right...


I saw the small digits to the right - but figured the point of a plate is to be able to read the big numbers/letters (police etc.)

Thanks for the information...............


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

Steveo8998 said:


> Have you seen a picture of the new X5... it looks alot like a Bubbly Blown-up X3... i think we all might be looking at the new X5.......... :dunno:


You may be right............

This site shows an X5 mule which is almost identical to the shots in this thread.

http://www.bmwinfo.com/517.html

It lools much more like an X3 than the current X5.


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

wow. I shoulda watermarked the photos....


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

JG said:


> You may be right............
> 
> This site shows an X5 mule which is almost identical to the shots in this thread.
> 
> ...


I saw those same photos and a "claim" that it was the new X5... I knew it then and am telling you now that the "NEW" part is right... the "X5" part is wrong. THAT... is an X3. :thumbup:

For one thing... among many... there is NO WAY a third row will fit in "that" Xthing.

:bigpimp:


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## JG (Mar 5, 2005)

SpeedFreak! said:


> I saw those same photos and a "claim" that it was the new X5... I knew it then and am telling you now that the "NEW" part is right... the "X5" part is wrong. THAT... is an X3. :thumbup:
> 
> For one thing... among many... there is NO WAY a third row will fit in "that" Xthing.
> 
> :bigpimp:


It does look like an X3.

BTW the current X5 is is only a 1.5 cubic feet larger inside than the X3 (97.6 vs. 96.1)

So the third row bit is applicable to both............


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

beewang said:


> :slap:
> 
> Its turbo DIESEL McFly!! Helloooooeee!!! As in 335iTD duh!!


Hey dude... I love you maaan... but I gotta tell you, BMW has been doing the Turbo Diesel for quite awhile now. It's old news. The new buzz is how BMW will put the turbo world on its freakin ear by taking its brilliant experience and accomplishments from diesel and using them in the gas engine world. Gas Turbo power unlike never before... BMW style! That's gotta be what we're seeing in these pics and in the others on Rizzo's other thread.


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Looking NOW at ALL the pictures that have been out there as "the" next X5... they are the EXACT same vehicle as the one that Rizzo shot. Difference is... his photos give a size refference from all the people around. Plus... they are the most close up and personal. They ARE the very best we have seen. ALL the others have been from a distance and have had NO size reference. I truly believe that ALL the publications have been wrong. What they have been calling the "new" X5... has actually been a "ZHP" type of option package for the sale sucking X3... which is in DESPERATE need of some kind of excitement and positive press. Not that there has necessarily been bad press... just not your typical BMW rants and raves and category dominance that we spoiled BMW people are so used to. :thumbup: 
Below are some cool links I have come across as I searched for valid X5 spy :thumbup: photos:

X3
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101301

3 ZHP
http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoid/6050523.001

X6
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_08_BMW_X6.S178.A8788.html

Looong X5 :rofl: 
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_2003_BMW_X5.S178.A3169.html :rofl:

That last one was a joke...


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Alex Baumann said:


> Dear Californians, are those special registration plates that they get for test mules?


Yes... those are special distributor plates... the big numbers indicate the "distributor" in this case BMW... the small numbers on the right are all different.

I don't get lucky enough to see the BMW ones where I am very often, but I see the Hyundai, KIA, and Ford ones here from time to time... :eeps:


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## hmr (Jul 28, 2002)

SpeedFreak! said:


> ...What they have been calling the "new" X5... has actually been a "ZHP" type of option package for the sale sucking X3...


Nope. I'm convinced it's the new X5. Look at the Hoffmeister kink. That's no X3.


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## armaq (Apr 18, 2003)

Thanks for the spy shots. I think that's the upcoming 335i and MKII X5


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

hmr said:


> Nope. I'm convinced it's the new X5. Look at the Hoffmeister kink. That's no X3.


The kink totally looks like a disguised X3... I'm, telling you... look at the size in relation to the people... that can't be the upcoming X5... heavily disguised X3 of some sort... :thumbup:


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

SpeedFreak! said:


> Looking NOW at ALL the pictures that have been out there as "the" next X5... they are the EXACT same vehicle as the one that Rizzo shot. Difference is... his photos give a size refference from all the people around. Plus... they are the most close up and personal. They ARE the very best we have seen. ALL the others have been from a distance and have had NO size reference. I truly believe that ALL the publications have been wrong. What they have been calling the "new" X5... has actually been a "ZHP" type of option package for the sale sucking X3... which is in DESPERATE need of some kind of excitement and positive press.


I don't know... The X3 is only in its second model year. BMW stuck to its guns with the 2002 7er and didn't face-lift till 4 model years later.

As for the size reference, an X5 isn't that big. Looking at the technical data on BMW NA's Web site, the X5 is 67.5 inches tall without the roof rail, while the X3 is 66.0 inches. Can you tell the difference between a person that's 5'6" and one that's 5'7½" when they're in separate photographs? Even if the mule is say 5'9" without the rack, the big guy standing next to it can be a reasonable 6'3".

Other things about the mule compared to the E83 X3 and E53 X5:

the kidney grilles are huge (reduce the image size or view from farther away)
the inner cut of the headlights is more angled instead of vertical
the rear door seems to slope more like the X5 than the X3
the rear visor is smoother like the X5 instead of angular like the X3
the body cladding on the doors looks just like the E53 (probably so you think it's an E53)
the side indicator is low on the body (like the E53)
the mules have two exhaust pipes, one on each side (X5)


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

FenPhen said:


> I don't know... The X3 is only in its second model year. BMW stuck to its guns with the 2002 7er and didn't face-lift till 4 model years later.
> 
> As for the size reference, an X5 isn't that big. Looking at the technical data on BMW NA's Web site, the X5 is 67.5 inches tall without the roof rail, while the X3 is 66.0 inches. Can you tell the difference between a person that's 5'6" and one that's 5'7½" when they're in separate photographs? Even if the mule is say 5'9" without the rack, the big guy standing next to it can be a reasonable 6'3".
> 
> ...


I agree completely with every one of your points. My "size" reference had more to do with the size of the doors... and the distance between the "2nd" row of seats and the back hatch. I wasn't thinking of it as a complete re-do... but a refresh and/or a specialty option package... like a ZHP X3... something to help the lackluster sales. I thought the different headlights and the obvious sculpting of the hood (like the 7)... the points you made... seemed to point to future X5... but the Rizzo pictures give me a different context all together. I'm certainly not suggesting that "I'm the guy"... I just thought that "IF" the rumors are true... that the next X5 will be significantly BIGGER then the current X5... with a THIRD ROW seat... then this can not be the next X5...
...right? :dunno:


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## silverado (May 27, 2005)

What does a mule mean in this context? I'm a noob to all this spy photo stuff?

Thanks in advance


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## Alex Baumann (Dec 19, 2001)

silverado said:


> What does a mule mean in this context? I'm a noob to all this spy photo stuff?
> 
> Thanks in advance


Prototype. Pre-production test car.


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## Hattori Hanzo (May 13, 2004)

*Mules*

A girl at work says her brother drives BMWs in CA for 150,000 miles and then ships them back to Germany, open them up to see how they ran. They like to drive Santa Maria, Mojave, and Bishop. I showed her the pics and she did not think her bro was driving those cars. This stuff is like top secret eh?

BTW, what were you doing in a tour bus in Mono Lake? I go up that way to Bridgeport for some serious trout fishing. I hope you saw Manzanaar.

Ciao.


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## WILLIA///M (Apr 15, 2002)

Hattori Hanzo said:


> A girl at work says her brother drives BMWs in CA for 150,000 miles and then ships them back to Germany, open them up to see how they ran. They like to drive Santa Maria, Mojave, and Bishop.


Are they hiring?
:eeps:


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

Hattori Hanzo said:


> BTW, what were you doing in a tour bus in Mono Lake? I go up that way to Bridgeport for some serious trout fishing. I hope you saw Manzanaar.
> 
> Ciao.


We did see Manzanar on the way back...with my best friend .... who is Chinese-American. Somebody walked up to him and apologized....:loco:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

WILLIA///M said:


> Are they hiring?
> :eeps:


 :rofl: Sure... but just remember... once your time is up... they kill you! :thumbup:


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## mapezzul (Jun 14, 2005)

I think it is a facelift X3 rather than a new gen X5 for a few reasons.
1) there is so much extra sheetmetal/plastic on the entire thing to give it the look of bigger (look st the rivets everywhere, even the rear quarter had added material the doors have a solid line of rivets on the top etc.) 2) the pillars and roof line are almsot identical to an X3 when super impossed (if not identical) 3) this is what i think is the give away....interior wise -it does NOT have an IDRIVE second "wave" and I highly doubt they would produce the X5 without Idrive. 
Any thoughts? 
It also resembles the other pics of the X3 taken in europe.
:thumbup:


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## Sean (Dec 22, 2001)

That has got to be the next X5. While in Greer, SC (US Factory) on June 16th, they were hiding something from us in the paint shop as the glass was covered with paper. It usually is not.


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## Bobby 325i (Oct 18, 2002)

I came across these few pics of the same E90 test mule on the net and thought I should share them with the fellow 'Festers. Notice the guage in the last pic:thumbup:. I smell turbo :yikes:


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## Frank Rizzo (Aug 2, 2003)

Bobby 325i said:


> I came across these few pics of the same E90 test mule on the net and thought I should share them with the fellow 'Festers. Notice the guage in the last pic:thumbup:. I smell turbo :yikes:


Are you high right now?


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## doeboy (Sep 20, 2002)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Are you high right now?


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## hmr (Jul 28, 2002)

Bobby 325i said:


> I came across these few pics of the same E90 test mule on the net and thought I should share them with the fellow 'Festers. Notice the guage in the last pic:thumbup:. I smell turbo :yikes:


Hello, McFly! Those are Frank Rizzo's pics, covered in http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104241
:slap:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

Frank Rizzo said:


> Are you high right now?


 :smokin: 
YES... as a matter of fact... HE IS... HE IS COMLETELY STONED RIGHT NOW!!! :rofl:



DUDE... just look at his Avatar... this guy is freakin' tanked... right this very second. :eeps:


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## SpeedFreak! (May 1, 2005)

mapezzul said:


> I think it is a facelift X3 rather than a new gen X5 for a few reasons.
> 1) there is so much extra sheetmetal/plastic on the entire thing to give it the look of bigger (look st the rivets everywhere, even the rear quarter had added material the doors have a solid line of rivets on the top etc.) 2) the pillars and roof line are almsot identical to an X3 when super impossed (if not identical) 3) this is what i think is the give away....interior wise -it does NOT have an IDRIVE second "wave" and I highly doubt they would produce the X5 without Idrive.
> Any thoughts?
> It also resembles the other pics of the X3 taken in europe.
> :thumbup:


Excellent observation... NO way X5 is goin' to be without iDrive... it will be standard, just like the 5 series. :thumbup:


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

mapezzul said:


> I think it is a facelift X3 rather than a new gen X5 for a few reasons.
> 1) there is so much extra sheetmetal/plastic on the entire thing to give it the look of bigger (look st the rivets everywhere, even the rear quarter had added material the doors have a solid line of rivets on the top etc.) 2) the pillars and roof line are almsot identical to an X3 when super impossed (if not identical) 3) this is what i think is the give away....interior wise -it does NOT have an IDRIVE second "wave" and I highly doubt they would produce the X5 without Idrive.
> Any thoughts?
> It also resembles the other pics of the X3 taken in europe.
> :thumbup:


I don't agree. Actually I don't even have a moment of doubt that this MUST be an X5. There are just too many clues that indicate it is:

1. All publications of spy photos identified it as an X5. I really doubt all of them are wrong. From past records, they had pretty accurate info about their published photos, not just wild guesses.

2. When you look at the rear overhang, it's actually quite long (from the end of the rear bumper to the wheel). It's much longer than that of the current X3.

3. The lower part of the rear bumper looks exactly like the current X5, not even close to the X3.

4. Exhausts are on both sides. Remember, the X3 is only 2 years old. There is no way that this will be a major redesign. More or less a minor facelift. So far, I've never seen a minor facelift of a model that involves a total re-route of the exhaust.

5. Please see my attacted photo. This is the biggest hint - the shape of the door panel (S-shape) with side molding is a signature of the current X5, especially the "X-Acto knife tip" above the side signal. I even guess that they are using back the same door.

6. The wheels they used is the BMW cross-spoke style 177, which is an exclusive X5 wheel. Since the offset of the X5 wheel is different from that of the X3, they can't be interchanged.

I'm not sure if the above clues are enough to convince you, but I think I'm 100% sure it's an X5!


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

mkh said:


> 4. Exhausts are on both sides. Remember, the X3 is only 2 years old. There is no way that this will be a major redesign. More or less a minor facelift. So far, I've never seen a minor facelift of a model that constitute a total re-route of the exhaust.


Less convincing than the exhaust argument, but the mirrors look different to me (the supporting arms are thicker), or are at least they're disguised. I don't think face-lifts ever change the mirror design.


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## mkh (Mar 24, 2003)

FenPhen said:


> Less convincing than the exhaust argument, but the mirrors look different to me (the supporting arms are thicker), or are at least they're disguised. I don't think face-lifts ever change the mirror design.


Yes, I also noticed that. The mirror is exactly the same as that of the current X5. I don't want to use it as a definite clue since it is an accessory and can be changed easily in the last minute.


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## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

So, comparing the pics of the X3 sport package (posted by jboo) to these mule pics, I think we can conclude this isn't an X3 mule.

As for the missing iDrive hump, the iDrive display is probably a flip-up (like the X3) and is just folded down in the pics.


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## mguhler (Nov 20, 2004)

*This my friends is an X3*

C'mon, the third pic Rizzo has out there is an X3, no doubt. The 4th pic looks like an X5, did anyone consider there may be more than one X model in their lineup? Freakin' Krauts!
X3 here, thansk Rizzo


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## hmr (Jul 28, 2002)

mguhler said:


> C'mon, the third pic Rizzo has out there is an X3, no doubt. The 4th pic looks like an X5, did anyone consider there may be more than one X model in their lineup? Freakin' Krauts!
> X3 here, thansk Rizzo


Nope, I'm sure that's just tape over the rear side window, fooling us to believing it's an X3. X5, no doubt.


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