# Ordering custom build vs buying off the lot?



## M4Stig (Mar 15, 2014)

There is one, outside Chicago 
http://www.bmwofcrystallake.com/new/BMW/2015-BMW-M235i-17d4fcb20a0a0002664050323e92ca8a.htm



bzcat said:


> OP is looking for an unicorn... M235i manual in estoril blue.
> 
> In some markets, this is an unsellable car (manual, non-gray scale color), while in certain parts of the country, this car is going above MSRP.
> 
> But in general, you don't pay extra by ordering a BMW. In fact, that is the prefer way to do it.


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## Arciga18 (Mar 3, 2012)

If you want that blue car you need to contact irv Robinson...Living legend here


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Ninong said:


> This statement is true.
> 
> Quite often BMW has manufacturer-to-dealer incentives that are applicable only to cars currently in his inventory, not ordered cars. You would have to know if there are any factory-to-dealer incentives that apply to your car at that time.
> 
> ...


Why feel compelled to mislead? You arent currently a BMW salesman, are you?

By your own admission, you qualified it in you closing with "usually"...but not always.

Yet you take the time to cite every possible item that MIGHT result in a higher price.

Oddly, as if you were trying to sell a lot car.


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## ard (Jul 1, 2009)

Also understand that you have desperate salesmen trying to sell cars TODAY. They are trained not to sell ordered cars- they are driven to sell off the lot. These guys are often times compensated on comission, and the more they can wring out of you in the closing the better.

On the other hand, if you chose the right spondor, you will be dealing with a salesman that may have a different compensaton plan and has agreed that he will sell cars for less profit and less hassle. Comparing the deal you can get from an online dealer who runs a high volume sales channel may be a very different sales experience than the guys on the lot. Heck, they may laugh at your '500 over' deal, and just hope you go away so they can get at the next idiot that things "$500 off window is great".

As dkriedel posted way above, it all depends on who does the negotaitoons. Not ordered or lot car.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

ard said:


> Why feel compelled to mislead? You arent currently a BMW salesman, are you?
> 
> By your own admission, you qualified it in you closing with "usually"...but not always.
> 
> ...


What makes you think I was misleading? The OP said he was told he would pay more for an ordered car than for one in stock and that happens to be a true statement for several well known reasons.

We can skip all the obvious ones that may or may not apply at a particular time, such as manufacturer-to-dealer incentives to move stock or build-out incentives, and just think about the less obvious ones, not all of which I bothered to mention. The salesperson (sorry, "client adviser") doesn't have final approval on what constitutes a minimum deal. That decision is made by the new car sales manager and ultimately by what he is told by the general sales manager. Yes, management is more interested in moving current stock. One of the most obvious reasons, besides the fact that you don't want any car, new or used, to be "over 90," meaning over 90 days in inventory, is the fact that you're paying interest (formerly known as "flooring") on your inventory, unless the dealer is rolling in cash and pays for all of his new cars before the 3-week period (or whatever it is now) when they start to accrue charges.

So, yes, it's a true statement that the dealership's management is always willing to take a lower gross on a car in stock, especially if it has been in stock for some time, compared to one that would have to be ordered. And, in the OP's case, if he does find an Estoril Blue stick in stock somewhere, chances are it has been sitting there for quite a while. Of course they would be more willing to entertain whatever they can get. They want to unload that thing before it gets into over-90, or over-120. Why is that so hard to understand? It's just the simple truth.

If the question is "does BMWNA charge more for ordering a car compared to one in stock" then the answer could be either yes or no depending on whether there has been a mid-model price increase or possibly an unadvertised factory-to-dealer incentive (e.g. $1,000 or more) to move dealer stock. However, the question was "I have been told to expect to pay more for an ordered car than for one out of dealer stock" and the truthful answer to that one is that you can usually get a better deal if you buy a car out of stock compared to placing an order. From the dealer's point of view, an order is a potential deal down the road and it's never a certainty, especially in a state like California. A deal out of stock counts today, it adds to my commission if I am a salesman or to my department net if I am the GSM and already in the black for the month and racking up bonus money.

You guys are all assuming that everything the salespeople tell the customers is a bunch of BS even when they are telling you the truth. Just remember, the salesman didn't make the deal, the house did. The salesman doesn't have the authority to make the deal. His authority is limited to doing what he has been instructed, even if he is a high-volume Internet specialist who knows what his limits are. The difference is that he is more likely to tell it like it is and not play games.

So the next time you hear someone tell you that you can get a better deal today -- and it happens to be the last few days of the month -- than you could by ordering the car or even by waiting another week, just remember that he's probably telling you the truth. And don't be shocked if they aren't willing to cut you as good a deal a day or two later if they already hit the number they needed to hit for the month. Too bad you didn't pull the trigger when the deal was on the table.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Ninong said:


> This statement is true.
> 
> Quite often BMW has manufacturer-to-dealer incentives that are applicable only to cars currently in his inventory, not ordered cars. You would have to know if there are any factory-to-dealer incentives that apply to your car at that time.
> 
> ...


Incentives(including buildout) can be applied to custom order(priority 1 customer sold) that arrives when the incentive is in effect, so it depends on the timing of the custom order(including ED).

My specific MY13 custom order(US delivery, no trade) was placed early September, and the car arrived end of Oct. The TeamUSA credit still was in effect, plus loyalty cash for Oct(which was forfeited on a cash deal). The deal started as $500 above dealer invoice(with MACO+training) before incentives, but it ended up to be close to factory invoice(MACO waived) before incentives as the dealer met their quotes for the month.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

namelessman said:


> The deal started as $500 above dealer invoice(with MACO+training), but it ended up to be factory invoice(the dealer even waived MACO) as the dealer met their quotes for the month.


Factory invoice is a very good deal on an in-stock car but you can sometimes get below invoice if the dealer is desperate for a few more deals. MACO and training fees are part of factory invoice, except on ED cars. I guess you mean the dealer gave you a deal below factory invoice if he actually subtracted the amount of the MACO fee? Unless you used a dealer who isn't part of an area that is charged a MACO fee, like Santa Barbara, for example.

I think the OP's question was a general one. It turns out he wasn't talking about what a salesperson had told him, he was talking about what some people had told him. In general, most of the time, you can get the best deal if you go with a car in stock, assuming it's one you want. From the dealer's perspective, a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush, especially if he desperately needs more deals right now.


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## namelessman (Dec 23, 2004)

Ninong said:


> Factory invoice is a very good deal on an in-stock car but you can sometimes get below invoice if the dealer is desperate for a few more deals. MACO and training fees are part of factory invoice, except on ED cars. I guess you mean the dealer gave you a deal below factory invoice if he actually subtracted the amount of the MACO fee? Unless you used a dealer who isn't part of an area that is charged a MACO fee, like Santa Barbara, for example.
> 
> I think the OP's question was a general one. It turns out he wasn't talking about what a salesperson had told him, he was talking about what some people had told him. In general, most of the time, you can get the best deal if you go with a car in stock, assuming it's one you want. From the dealer's perspective, a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush, especially if he desperately needs more deals right now.


For my case the original deal was dealer invoice(factory invoice+MACO+training) plus $500 before incentives. When the deal was closed at end of Oct it was dealer invoice minus MACO(and before incentives), or close to factory invoice(and before incentives). The dealer was just a few cars away from the monthly quotas.

As suggested previously, a cancelled custom order can become an in-stock unit. My purchase was fall 2012, when BMWAG started to redirect euro allocations to the US, and the dealer inventories kept growing every week.

Obviously, market condition dictates the deals. For example, my previous bimmer was 2001 E39. At that time every NorCal dealer sold every E39 that hit the lot, so the deals were very different then.


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## shark715 (Nov 20, 2011)

Ninong said:


> One of the most obvious reasons, besides the fact that you don't want any car, new or used, to be "over 90," meaning over 90 days in inventory, is the fact that you're paying interest (formerly known as "flooring") on your inventory, unless the dealer is rolling in cash and pays for all of his new cars before the 3-week period (or whatever it is now) when they start to accrue charges.


So are you saying that a BMW dealer has something like a 3 week period from receipt of the car at the dealer until he/she has to start paying interest on it? I was under the impression it was more like 60 or 90 days. And it's no longer known as "flooring"?


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

shark715 said:


> So are you saying that a BMW dealer has something like a 3 week period from receipt of the car at the dealer until he/she has to start paying interest on it? I was under the impression it was more like 60 or 90 days. And it's no longer known as "flooring"?


Yes, that's what I said but I regret making that statement because their policies may have changed from what they were when I was working. I'm retired now and I am not up to date on the most recent arrangements between the dealers and BMWNA. It was called flooring when I was working but another 'fester posted that it's called something else now. ??

In general, I'm sure it still holds true that dealerships do not want to see cars, new or used, sitting in inventory unsold. Therefore, most dealers will go out of their way to accept a deal on a car that has been in stock for a period of time. That was the point I was trying to make to answer the question of why you might be able to get a better deal on a car in stock than what you might get on a special order.


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## shark715 (Nov 20, 2011)

Part of the reason I always thought it was longer was (like you said) dealers (BMW and otherwise) have always seemed eager to unload cars that they have has in stock for more than a couple of months. So I assumed that's when the interest charges start. Part of my logic was that if that if the charges started after 3 weeks, in theory they would be in no more of a rush to move a unit that had been on the lot for 3 weeks versus 3 months, given that the "cost" of not selling the vehicle today (versus a month from now) was the same for either (given that selling the 3 month old unit today would not reduce the already accrued interest costs).


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## hpowders (Jun 3, 2005)

Depends how much patience you have. You will have to wait 2-3 months for the car to arrive at the dealer. But at least it will be exactly as you want it and you won't have to settle.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

shark715 said:


> Part of the reason I always thought it was longer was (like you said) dealers (BMW and otherwise) have always seemed eager to unload cars that they have has in stock for more than a couple of months. So I assumed that's when the interest charges start. Part of my logic was that if that if the charges started after 3 weeks, in theory they would be in no more of a rush to move a unit that had been on the lot for 3 weeks versus 3 months, given that the "cost" of not selling the vehicle today (versus a month from now) was the same for either (given that selling the 3 month old unit today would not reduce the already accrued interest costs).


If flooring starts in three weeks, then if you sell all of your cars within two weeks after you get them you will have no flooring costs at all. If a car has been in stock for three months, it has racked up a lot more flooring costs than one that has been in stock for only a month or even two months. If it has been in stock for six months, it has racked up even more, and, besides it's getting stale. Put it on the showroom floor and offer a spiff on it to move it. A spiff if a bonus over and above regular commission.

You don't want your new cars hanging around for months. Customers can see the month it was produced and shy away from it if it has been in stock too long. Used cars are even worse because they depreciate from month to month. Once a used car has been in stock for 90 days most dealers consider dumping it at auction. If they can't sell it in 90 days, they're not likely to sell it, period. Unload it.

Anyway, if a customer is looking for a certain car and he finds what he's looking for in stock at a local dealer, he might be able to get a better deal on that car compared to ordering one if that car is one the dealership really wants to move -- meaning it's been in stock for a few months already. Look at the cars on the showroom floor and check to see if some of them have production dates that go back several months.


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

bzcat said:


> OP is looking for an unicorn... M235i manual in estoril blue.
> 
> In some markets, ..., this car is going above MSRP.


Nothing that you can order and receive 8 weeks later should ever go above MSRP. That is just silly - just because they say its "rare" does not mean it is...


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## shark715 (Nov 20, 2011)

Stork, I'm in North Jersey too, and you can special order the car by using True Car and get it for $1000 over invoice, which means with a little bit of legwork you should be able to get it for $500 over invoice, and maybe even less if you push hard. We are lucky to be in an area where there's a significant amount of dealer competition, and there is no shortage of cars...your car will be rolling out of the factory within 2 to 4 weeks after you order it.

Depending on how valuable your time is, you might want to reconsider ED. You can save $3000 on this car, and that's $3000 off the discounted prices in the paragraph above. Not sure how valuable your time is to you, but you can turn in the car at the airport immediately after you pick it up and fly back, and a round trip ticket from Newark to Munich is about $1400 (and you can get that below $1000 if you are careful about when you go and are willing to take a connecting flights. You could leave Newark on an evening flight, pick up and turn in the car the following day, and fly back the next day. BMW will even pay for your hotel room. The MSRP on the car you want is $47,450. Assuming you can buy it for $500 over ED invoice, (As I understand it, ED invoice is 93% of ED MSRP, which is $40,135 on this car, plus the invoice price of the options you want is $4040, plus $950 freight), your ED price would be only $42,816. I'm familiar with the details because I'm about to order a 235 convertible myself for ED delivery. Let us know what you end up doing, and feel free to PM me if you like.


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## frank325 (Dec 29, 2005)

shark715 said:


> BMW will even pay for your hotel room.


Do you want to clarify that statement? If you do PCD, they cover the hotel in SC, but BMW doesn't pay for any hotels in Europe while doing an ED.


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## miamiboyca (Jun 19, 2012)

Couple of corrections, BMW does not pick up your hotel in Germany, only in south Carolina and ED MSRP is 7% off US MSRP. Invoice is 7% off ED MSRP. So ED invoice winds up about 14% off US MSRP before options.

Example
US MSRP M3 62,000. U.S. invoice 57,540
ED MSRP 57,710 and ED Invoice 53,095

Definitely worth the trip even if it's a short one.


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## shark715 (Nov 20, 2011)

frank325 said:


> Do you want to clarify that statement? If you do PCD, they cover the hotel in SC, but BMW doesn't pay for any hotels in Europe while doing an ED.


I see you are correct. It's the shuttle service to the hotel that's free, not the hotel itself. BMW used to throw in a complimentary one night hotel stay, but that's been removed from the program.


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## frank325 (Dec 29, 2005)

shark715 said:


> I see you are correct. It's the shuttle service to the hotel that's free, not the hotel itself. BMW used to throw in a complimentary one night hotel stay, but that's been removed from the program.


Right, one ride from the airport to the hotel (or welt), or the hotel to welt, is free.


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## Ninong (May 20, 2014)

shark715 said:


> BMW used to throw in a complimentary one night hotel stay...


I remember when they used to throw in two free roundtrip coach fares on Lufthansa to Munich from any US city served by Lufthansa.


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## Ace535i (Jan 28, 2012)

ard said:


> also understand that you have desperate salesmen trying to sell cars today. They are trained not to sell ordered cars- they are driven to sell off the lot. These guys are often times compensated on comission, and the more they can wring out of you in the closing the better.
> 
> On the other hand, if you chose the right spondor, you will be dealing with a salesman that may have a different compensaton plan and has agreed that he will sell cars for less profit and less hassle. Comparing the deal you can get from an online dealer who runs a high volume sales channel may be a very different sales experience than the guys on the lot. Heck, they may laugh at your '500 over' deal, and just hope you go away so they can get at the next idiot that things "$500 off window is great".
> 
> As dkriedel posted way above, it all depends on who does the negotaitoons. Not ordered or lot car.


x 2


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## avalily (Jan 17, 2015)

An important thing to keep in mind is that when buying off a lot, if the car includes something that you don't want and wouldn't otherwise order, you would have to get a MUCH better deal in order to end up ahead, which is probably unrealistic. Just because a car is objectively a good deal given what other people are buying and selling a car with those features for, it doesn't mean it is a good deal for you, which is all that matters in this situation.


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