# This time, Alfa Romeo is coming back....really



## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

But unlike many spurned lovers, Alfa Romeo will be back. New Alfa boss Karl-Heinz Kalbfell, the former head of BMW's M division (think M3 and M5), cites success in America as crucial to Alfa's worldwide recovery. "You can't be an international success without succeeding in America," says Kalbfell, speaking in Munich, the very pointed location for the launch of the crucial new Alfa Romeo 159 sedan.

He even chose to introduce the 159 in Munich because BMW - whose home was just a few miles from the press launch location - is the target. Kalbfell has the greatest of respect for his former employer. But he also he also feels that it's vulnerable. BMW's latest cars, he thinks, don't quite have the driving character or elegance of their predecessors.

Link to Edmunds

Autoweek

Overall rigidity on the premium architecture is reportedly 30 percent higher than that found on the latest BMW 3 Series. We can attest to the rigid feel under all conditions, but despite a fresh multilink rear suspension, now the damper ratings need to catch up. Rebound rates seem slow, and there is some jiggle over rougher surfaces.

Link to Autoweek


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## Thertorch (Mar 10, 2004)

Well, the front end is as ugly as the new BMW's. At least he got that part right.


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

If only Alfa would go back to rear drive, then you'd have some special cars. Sure they're crap build quality compared to a BMW, but they have soul. But front drive, no thanks.


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

Who's going to be selling these things?

Alfa left the U.S. primarily because their dealership network sucked, and their service departments were abyssmal.

I remember reading somewhere that overall reliability for those cars were on par for vehicles of the day...but getting anything fixed was a sisyphean ordeal.

Until they address that very basic issue, they are not going to have any success in the U.S.


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## LA525iT (Oct 27, 2003)

I still see a decent number of Milanos (think they were called the 75 in Europe) tooling around. Either their owners are die-hard and bleed their bank accounts dry keeping the cars running, or the cars are fairly durable despite the little reliability problems (sounds familiar, huh BMW owners).

Rode in a 156 in Europe and the twin-spark engine sounded mah-velous. Didnt drive it, couldnt comment on that.


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

philippek said:


> Who's going to be selling these things?
> 
> Alfa left the U.S. primarily because their dealership network sucked, and their service departments were abyssmal.
> 
> ...


That was the problem, the dealer network. The rumor going around was Alfa pulled out just to get rid of the dealer network, so it could start fresh at a later date.

I owned two Alfas, they were reliable and a blast to drive.


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## BMWenthusiast (Feb 27, 2005)

so now they're gonna need to create a whole new dealer network, so still at least a couple years out


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

Looks as though they will use existing Maserati Dealers in the US.

Interview: Karl-Heinz Kalbfell

His goals are to take Alfa back into the U.S. market; to double sales of Alfa and Maserati worldwide; and to expand the product range of the two companies.

"Alfa Romeo and Maserati stay separate," he continues. "Separate engineering, separate design, separate companies. They'll just have the same chief: me. But we will work together to ensure the ranges dovetail, to share components when appropriate, and to share dealers and distributors when it's desirable."

Brera coupe. Both are Giugiaro designs.
He won't confirm the date of Alfa Romeo's reentry into America (2007?), but he's clear about sales objectives. "I was amazed when I joined Alfa Romeo to discover that world sales last year were only 175,000. That's a small figure for such a well-respected brand making such good cars. The medium-term objective is 300,000."

Link to Motortrend


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

*Recipe for disaster*

How many Maserati dealerships are there in the U.S.? 50? Maybe?

Fortunately they're all located in major metropolitan areas, but these dealerships can't possibly make the space, add the staff or create the brand necessary to mount a credible challenge for the 3 series, or any other near-luxury model, for that matter. On top of that they'd have to change the corporate culture to a large degree: these dealerships aren't used to dealing with the public-at-large...I wonder what the reaction will be when a buyer asks to see invoice.

It'll take scads of cash, and a lot of time.


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## HW (Dec 24, 2001)

175K/yr in sales is surprising. i saw lots of alfa's in europe.


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

philippek said:


> How many Maserati dealerships are there in the U.S.? 50? Maybe?
> 
> Fortunately they're all located in major metropolitan areas, but these dealerships can't possibly make the space, add the staff or create the brand necessary to mount a credible challenge for the 3 series, or any other near-luxury model, for that matter. On top of that they'd have to change the corporate culture to a large degree: these dealerships aren't used to dealing with the public-at-large...I wonder what the reaction will be when a buyer asks to see invoice.
> 
> It'll take scads of cash, and a lot of time.


Not many Mini dealerships around but they sure sell a ton of them. You don't want any new competition do you?


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## philippek (Jul 31, 2003)

bimmerguy said:


> Not many Mini dealerships around but they sure sell a ton of them. You don't want any new competition do you?


I thought you'd bring MINI up...

That particular shared franchise agreement has had its share of problems. Some were not unlike the problems experienced when BMW launched the X5, and required dealerships to become "Certified SAV Centers." Shame on BMW for not learning from their mistakes.

But it worked, for several key reasons, which aren't present in the Alfa case:

1) BMW has a strong national dealership network (400+ strong, IIRC).

2) MINI is a specialty "boutique" brand, which has no aspirations of selling millions of cars.

3) MINI brands itself as a "premium small car" which jives well in a BMW dealership (ok, Alfa has that going for it, as well).

4) Space is not an issue (it's a MINI for gawdsakes). Even the biggest dealers only get about 50 cars a month.

5) MINI has a relatively "clean slate" in the American consciousness. Few of us (even on this board) remember the issues with Lucas Electrics or hydrolastic (sic?) suspension.

And as for competition, I'd like to quote my dear departed friend Alamo:

"Bring it on, bitch."


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## iateyourcheese (Sep 9, 2004)

I like the interior, very much like a cockpit. The exterior is .

This:









Reminds me of the new Subaru.









I'm sure that has nothing to do with an Alfa guy moving to Subaru. 

GAH! According to this , the new Subaru designer studied under Chris Bangle before going to Alfa and then Subie. This industry is messed up!


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## iateyourcheese (Sep 9, 2004)

Dawg90 said:


> If only Alfa would go back to rear drive, then you'd have some special cars. Sure they're crap build quality compared to a BMW, but they have soul. But front drive, no thanks.


The article said the US version will be AWD...


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

philippek said:


> I thought you'd bring MINI up...
> 
> That particular shared franchise agreement has had its share of problems. Some were not unlike the problems experienced when BMW launched the X5, and required dealerships to become "Certified SAV Centers." Shame on BMW for not learning from their mistakes.
> 
> ...


Only reason they only get around 50 a month - Mini production runs at full capacity.

Time to build another Mini plant over at Spartanburg.

Demand for MINI brand automobiles in April was robust . MINI USA reported that April 2005 sales jumped 31 percent, with 4,310 cars compared to 3,290 sold a year ago. Sales of MINI automobiles in the first four months of 2005 are up 25 percent with sales of 14,494 cars over the 11,561 cars reported in 2004.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2005/05/06/minis_us_sales_soar_in_april


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

AHHHHH ALFA,

I've driven a few in Germany on my test rips and I half like them. I'm sure our EU buddies can back me up when I say that Alfa's are like the new BMW's..."they look way better in person than they do in Photo's." They are pretty sexy cars and really nice interiors. The platforms are very rigid, but they really need to hire someone that can tune dampers. The cars handle very well and have very crisp steering....actually pretty amazing levels for a FWD car, BUT the ride :tsk: ! The cars really never settle down over broken surfaces. It feels like they use very high spring rates and very high damping forces, which makes the ride very busy and you can feel every damn little bump and crack. This is not such a huge problem in the EU, as most of the roads are very smooth and have very good transitions, but in North America these cars would beat you up in an hour driving. On the otherhand the new 3er with 18 runflats is very smooth and very flat over all surfaces. If Alfa can acheive the same level ride comfort as BMW, they have a real winning combination.


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

Test_Engineer said:


> AHHHHH ALFA,
> 
> I've driven a few in Germany on my test rips and I half like them. I'm sure our EU buddies can back me up when I say that Alfa's are like the new BMW's..."they look way better in person than they do in Photo's." They are pretty sexy cars and really nice interiors. The platforms are very rigid, but they really need to hire someone that can tune dampers. The cars handle very well and have very crisp steering....actually pretty amazing levels for a FWD car, BUT the ride :tsk: ! The cars really never settle down over broken surfaces. It feels like they use very high spring rates and very high damping forces, which makes the ride very busy and you can feel every damn little bump and crack. This is not such a huge problem in the EU, as most of the roads are very smooth and have very good transitions, but in North America these cars would beat you up in an hour driving. On the otherhand the new 3er with 18 runflats is very smooth and very flat over all surfaces. If Alfa can acheive the same level ride comfort as BMW, they have a real winning combination.


Have you driven the new 159 yet?


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## Test_Engineer (Sep 11, 2004)

bimmerguy said:


> Have you driven the new 159 yet?


I don't think that car is available yet. This spring I drove a 156. Maybe in Sept I can drive a 159 if possible.


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## bimmerguy (Dec 26, 2001)

PEBBLE BEACH, Calif. - Organizers of the Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance have confirmed the new Alfa Romeo 8C Spider will be unveiled at the event on August 21.

Alfa Romeo will be the featured brand at the forthcoming Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance. The sole surviving first Alfa Romeo model - a G1 from 1921 - will be shipped from Australia, and dramatic 1950s Bertone-executed concepts - the BAT5, 7d and 9 - will be reunited, along with other historic Alfas. As a bonus, the organizers convinced Alfa Romeo to roll out the open-top version of its 8C Competizione.

Alfa would like to return to North America in 2007, so this is a great way to highlight its "sporty" image. The original 8C Competizione sports car was unveiled two years ago at the Frankfurt Motor Show and ever since the question has been, "Will it be built or not?" As it was so well received, Alfa had at one point decided to go ahead with an open-top version, but then the company's priorities changed.

Now visitors to the ocean paradise where the Pebble Beach Concours is being held will be face-to-face with the 8C Spider, the open-top variant. The 8C Competizione had been fitted with a front-mounted, rear-wheel-drive 4.2-liter Maserati V8. It seems the 8C Spider has the same arrangement.










Edmunds Link


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## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

bimmerguy said:


> the former head of BMW's M division (think M3 and M5),


 

ya' think???? :dunno:


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