# Ethanol killed fuel pump! (?)



## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

bsuthoff said:


> Most reasonable explanation I've seen so far. But to add to the weirdness, when I picked up my E46 up on Thu the service rep told me the problems they're seeing are only affecting the E46 and seem more prominent in New England. I guessed that the "changeover" is the problem, not the ethanol blends, but why does it only affects the E46?
> 
> And to answer someone else's question, my fuel pumps were replaced with same pump - no improvements. And those repairs run $1100. Fun.
> 
> BMW has issued two recent service bulletins. One basically says "don't use more than 10% ethanol or your car may run like crap". The other says "only fill up at 'Top Tier' stations", which includes all the likely suspects - except that ExxonMobile is conspicuously absent.


Well, I just saw an article about USPS vehicles as well as others having fuel pumps replaced due to contaminated ethanol blends. Click on the link below for the complete article. And yes, it was in New England!

http://www.ack.net/gas051906.html


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## peoe2 (Nov 9, 2004)

*It's official*

The switch to ethanol is the cause for the fuel pump failures.


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## Bill97Z (Dec 20, 2002)

the new ethanol blends are creating a lot of problems.

I have been dealing with this more so on boats, but now it is starting to affect cars.

On boats, the ethanol blends are deteriorating the compounds in fiberglass gas tanks to the points of leakage and gumming up parts in the engine.

for cars I don't know what is going on, but I do know that ethanol in itself is very corrosive. Also, it has an affinity for water, so if there is any moisture in your tank, the ethanol will come out of solution to be with that water. This results in slugs of corrosive material and also lower octane gas. Also the new Ethanol gas doesn't mix well with the old MTBE gas. It tends to form solids and gums when it sits mixed for a while. This is hard on engine components too.

Hope this helps.


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## caifan (Feb 16, 2007)

*Pump died because of lower grade gas or ethanol?*

I had to get my car towed and then had to pay $900 because BMW denies coverage for the gas pump replacement.

They argue that it is my responsibility to get premiun gas to fill up the car, however that is why I do, I usually fill up with brand gas.

After weeks of going back and forth on the issue they explained to me that it is ethanol which is causing the problem, however the amount of ethanol in the blend is not in our control. I believe BMW should be responsible for designing pumps to withsthand blends with ethanol. What do they do in Brail and other places where ethanol percentages are a lot higher than in the U.S ?

I think their position and explanation is not acceptable. BMW should back up their cars and mine is still well under the warranty.


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## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

caifan said:


> I had to get my car towed and then had to pay $900 because BMW denies coverage for the gas pump replacement.
> 
> They argue that it is my responsibility to get premiun gas to fill up the car, however that is why I do, I usually fill up with brand gas.
> 
> ...


Their argument about using premium gas does not hold water. If they are using an ethanol blend in your area, that ethanol blend goes into each and every pump, no matter what octane or brand!


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## 330ximd (Sep 20, 2005)

caifan said:


> I had to get my car towed and then had to pay $900 because BMW denies coverage for the gas pump replacement.
> 
> They argue that it is my responsibility to get premiun gas to fill up the car, however that is why I do, I usually fill up with brand gas.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding? BMW is responsible for any failed internal problems under warranty. You should have gone to a different dealership, you got cheated.


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## bten (Sep 22, 2002)

I have been running midwest premium with ethanol for over 4 years, just moved to Texas, and have no problems here either. I always use branded gas.

I do know, however that I get poorer gas mileage with ethanol "laced" gas. I have noticed an improvment on road trips when I get gas in states that don't have ethanol.

I did have a suburban once, that ran fine on regular regular. I moved to Illinois, and had to bump it up to mid grade. It ran like [email protected] on regular with ethanol.


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## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

bten said:


> I do know, however that I get poorer gas mileage with ethanol "laced" gas. I have noticed an improvment on road trips when I get gas in states that don't have ethanol..


Ethanol has a significantly lower energy density (BTU/gallon) than gasoline, so your mileage is naturally lower. Around me, E85 is much cheaper than regular gasoline. However, the cost per mile traveled is still cheaper with normal gasoline. Car and Driver has a nice article awhile back on this.


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## Mike_Check (Feb 7, 2007)

cwsqbm said:


> Ethanol has a significantly lower energy density (BTU/gallon) than gasoline, so your mileage is naturally lower. Around me, E85 is much cheaper than regular gasoline. However, the cost per mile traveled is still cheaper with normal gasoline. Car and Driver has a nice article awhile back on this.


Here in Ohio, there are quite a few Ethanol stations that sell ONLY E85, and the price now is around $1.50+ a gallon. I have a Ranger that runs on that crap, I get about 14mpg. city, and maybe 20mpg. hwy. I get an avg. of 17 mpg. and it costs me the SAME to run E85, due to the fact that I get about 22mpg. with 87. And I get only 80% of the horsepower with E85, that I do with regular fuel... :dunno:


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

I'm not saying who is right or wrong about the ethanol. As far as damaging the fuel pump thats B/S. To my understanding Ethanol and Dry Gas are one in the same and Dry Gas has been around for many years as a additive to gas in the cold weather to dissipate the moisture in the gas and stop gas line freeze ups. Never heard of fuel pumps going bad because of Dry Gas.
cheers
vern


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## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

vern said:


> I'm not saying who is right or wrong about the ethanol. As far as damaging the fuel pump thats B/S. To my understanding Ethanol and Dry Gas are one in the same and Dry Gas has been around for many years as a additive to gas in the cold weather to dissipate the moisture in the gas and stop gas line freeze ups. Never heard of fuel pumps going bad because of Dry Gas.
> cheers
> vern


I really don't know what Dry Gas consists of, but last time I saw a can it was very small, certainly not big enough to make-up 10% of a tankfull.

At any rate, the damage was not being caused by ethanol per-se, but by contaminated ethanol.


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## crash8168 (May 26, 2004)

bsuthoff said:


> At the end of last week my 2002 325 wouldn't start. I had it towed into the the local BMW dealer (Boston, US area) today and they tell me that the fuel pump needs to be replaced. They also say they've replaced about 50 fuel pumps in the past week or so and that it's caused by gasoline blends with more than 10% ethanol.
> 
> I didn't fill up with E85 and I know that blends are not supposed to exceed 10% ethanol, especially if that's what it says right on the pump. But the dealer thinks that off-brand stations are selling blends with >10% ethanol in order to lower their costs.
> 
> ...


 SI B 13 03 06
Fuel Systems May 2006
Technical Service

SUBJECT
Fuel Pump Failure after Refueling with Ethanol Fuel Blend

MODEL
All

SITUATION
Engine dies shortly after refueling, and cannot be restarted again.

CAUSE
Fuel contamination related to a recent introduction of ethanol fuel blends. Ethanol is used as an octane booster, and replaces MTBE (methyl tertiary-butyl ether) in many fuel formulations.

High levels of water and other residue contaminants may cause damage to a fuel delivery system.

The introduction of ethanol to existing storage tank and distribution systems has acted to absorb the build-up of water and free residual contaminants accumulating over a period of time at these locations and permits them to be pumped into vehicles at the time of refueling.

Aside from the engine not running, early tests on vehicles with severe contamination reveal, for example, oxidation as the cause for fuel pump seizure on the E46 and a clogged fuel filter as the cause for a ruptured in-tank fuel line on the E65/66 N73 (760Li/i).

CORRECTION
In case of a fuel delivery system failure after refueling, follow the procedure below:

Drain all contaminated fuel from the fuel tank and fuel lines.

Clean all deposits/residue from the bottom of the fuel tank.

Replace the fuel filter/regulator assembly

Replace the fuel pump if seized, or if the in-tank pressure line is ruptured.

NOTE: For more information related to ethanol fuel blends refer to SI B13 01 06 (Alcohol Fuel Blends in BMW Vehicles).

WARRANTY INFORMATION
BMW NA does not cover damage caused by contaminated fuel. Customers should be directed to the facility where the fuel was purchased.

[ Copyright © 2006 BMW of North America, LLC ]


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## Chris90 (Apr 7, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> I suspect that people are experiencing some trouble with the changeover - the ethanol is probably dissolving "critical crud." Sort of like how people have trouble when they switch an old engine from dino oil to synthetic.
> 
> But I'll freely admit that it's just a guess.


It makes sense - I noticed a lot of stuttering at startup and for the first 30 seconds for a few months after the switchover, but now the car's fine.

I even got a notice from BMW USA that 10% ethanol was causing startup issues on my car, due to water absorption or something.


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

I'm not sure what BMW means by a contaminated fuel. It specifically states in the owners manual that running fuel with 10% ethanol will not void the warranty. Contaminated fuel has to be something other than just being 10% ethanol.


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## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

335i Driver said:


> I'm not sure what BMW means by a contaminated fuel. It specifically states in the owners manual that running fuel with 10% ethanol will not void the warranty. Contaminated fuel has to be something other than just being 10% ethanol.


From the BMW service bulletin..."The introduction of ethanol to existing storage tank and distribution systems has acted to absorb the build-up of water and free residual contaminants accumulating over a period of time at these locations and permits them to be pumped into vehicles at the time of refueling."


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## 335i Driver (Nov 29, 2006)

First of all, BMW would still have to prove it was the contaminants that caused the damage. And, if they did, then the oil co, gas stations liability should cover it.

When I was in the insurance business I saw a number of damaged engine, fuel pump claims against the oil co's we insured and the co I worked for paid them without incident. Certainly, not thoroughly cleaning a fuel storage tank before switching from a regular fuel to ethanol is gross negligence.


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## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

335i Driver said:


> First of all, BMW would still have to prove it was the contaminants that caused the damage. And, if they did, then the oil co, gas stations liability should cover it.
> 
> When I was in the insurance business I saw a number of damaged engine, fuel pump claims against the oil co's we insured and the co I worked for paid them without incident. Certainly, not thoroughly cleaning a fuel storage tank before switching from a regular fuel to ethanol is gross negligence.


I saw an article in the Ft Worth paper about 10-15 days ago. One of the gas stations was paying for repairs of many cars that fuled at their stations and sustained damage. There was no mention of ethanol and I can't remember the brand of gas.

When ethanol was first introduced to the Dallas area last year, they had a rash of probems.
Ed Wallace was interviewed on TV from a Ford dealership. They showed to the cameras a sampling of fuel taken from cars that were in for repairs. The separation between fuel and water was clearly visible.


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## vern (Apr 19, 2002)

HugH said:


> Their argument about using premium gas does not hold water. If they are using an ethanol blend in your area, that ethanol blend goes into each and every pump, no matter what octane or brand![/QUOTE! In the area where I live to the best of my knowledge "Gulf" is the only one that specifies on the punp about 10% ethanol being in there gas. Shell,Exxon Etc. don't have that statement on there pumps.
> cheers
> vern


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## HugH (Apr 26, 2006)

vern said:


> HugH said:
> 
> 
> > Their argument about using premium gas does not hold water. If they are using an ethanol blend in your area, that ethanol blend goes into each and every pump, no matter what octane or brand![/QUOTE! In the area where I live to the best of my knowledge "Gulf" is the only one that specifies on the punp about 10% ethanol being in there gas. Shell,Exxon Etc. don't have that statement on there pumps.
> ...


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## Doid23 (Dec 27, 2006)

Hopefully I can clear up a few misconceptions surrounding ethanol blended gasoline:

* EPA mandates Ethanol (10% blend) in areas that are considered high pollution. Based on a number of different factors, areas have dates that they must begin to use ethanol blended gasoline. For example, New York switched over in 2005, and New Jersey switched over in spring of 2006. One note, it is only required in prescribed localities surrounding a metropolitan area, so for example, northwest of Newburgh outside of NYC they still use conventional fuel, while just across the river they use RBOB (ethanol blended). It is also not specific to companies, e.g. Gulf vs. Shell, or grades of gasoline.

* Ethanol actually costs more than gasoline (it varies, but over the last year, this has been true), so no reason for people to "cut" gas with ethanol for savings. This is because there is much more demand for ethanol than there is supply, which looks to be true in the future as well. And since ethanol can't be transported in a pipeline due to it's corrosive nature and afinity for water, it is more expensive to move, and isn't able to utilize the efficient pipeline system.

* In addition, these ethanol areas cause supply headaches, which cause prices to rise everwhere, since it reduces the amount of sources for product (e.g. a conventional gasoline terminal cannot receive RBOB, and therefore when there is a shortage there are no local alternatives for supply)

* Almost all of the problems surrounding ethanol are due to water. Before ethanol, water in the tank was OK, since it settled to the bottom of the tank and gasoline does not mix with water. It only caused a problem when it rose above the intake pipe which sits a few inches above the bottom of the tank. Ethanol, however, absorbs water, so any water in the tank mixes with the ethanol, and if there is enough, causes too much water in the engine. Also, it is a mild corrosive, along with the fact that at low temperatures, it may in fact start to separate.

* At the time of an ethanol conversion, the all of the water will be removed from the stations tanks. Also, station operators are now required to stick for water every day (with a water paste applied to the end of the tank stick). Terminals will begin to convert to RBOB (ethanol blend) over a period of perhaps 1-2 months. On high volume sites, this is done rather easily, but at low volume sites it causes some challenges. All of this is why problems usually occur during periods where areas are switching to ethanol.

For all of these reasons, oil companies HATE ethanol. Tough to source, more expensive than gas, difficult to clean up if it gets into the ground with a spill, much tougher operationally. Add to that the fact that it uses more energy than it produces, reduces gas mileage, and is in short supply, makes it an all around loser. It actually makes MTBE look good (which the EPA also mandated).

My advice would be to frequent a station that maintains high appearance standards, since in my experience they also tend to be the operators who are on top of making sure there is no water in the tank.


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