# Stalling Problem Poll



## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

I am expecting a delivery of an '04 ZHP in July, but this stalling issue worries me. For my own peace of mind, and for the community, I'd like to get a handle on who's having stalling problems.

What I hope we can learn is: 

(1) Which models are having the problem?
(2) How many people have experienced it, and how many haven't.

Let's define the "stalling problem" as "a rough idle, or at idle, the car's RPMs suddenly drop or fluctuate, sometimes causing the car to stall, sometimes recovering to regular idle RPM."

It seems the problem comes up after putting some mileage on the car, so I'll try to reflect that in the poll.

Thanks!

EDIT: added "rough idle" based on feedback


----------



## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

it's not only a stalling issue, but more often a very rough idle issue with the needle bouncing a houndred RPM's consitently.

by all accounts, a software fix is en route by this June. Your's should likely have it by delivery. I would not worry (and I worry a lot!)


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

My car has stalled a few times of late, all when the car has been at idle when I'm just about to do a slow launch. I've always just attributed it to pilot error, but the next time I'm in for service (should be soon... new rotors), If I rememebr, I'll mention it and have them check it out.


----------



## dmilam (Apr 29, 2004)

There is also a known issue about the car stalling when turning at low speeds. When I mentioned it to my SA after it happened the first two times, he asked me if I was turning left at the time. I was turning right for both those occurences.
It actually happened to me today at lunch. That's the 3rd time it has happened since I got the car over a year ago. This time I was turning left.
I can't wait for the new software that is supposed to come out this summer.

It's a little annoying, but so far the only times it has happened to me I haven't been in any danger. If it happened while accelerating, then I'd be a lot more upset, because then it would be likely for someone to plow into the back of me. But since it has only stalled when I have been coasting around a corner with the clutch fully engaged, I'm not too worried about it.

Dave


----------



## MicahO (Apr 19, 2004)

*Clarification--*

My 330iZHP has less than 5000 miles on it (though finally enough that I can whang on the sucker).

It has not STALLED.

I had two near-stalls, at 150 and 162 miles on the ODO. I also had two dropped idle conditions that seemed different - the near-stalls seemed like the car coughed and sputtered like an old man. The other dropped idles just seemed like the idle dropped, car did not seem to cough.

Since about 200 miles (car is now at just under 1200), the car has not sputtered or dropped idle, and further, the idle has been rock solid, even for periods of 10 and 15 minutes of idling at a time.

That said, I do not feel that my car is miraculously healed and I am working actively with my SA to ensure that I get SW39 applied to the car as soon as it is available and proven as a long term solution. I took delivery April 13th, probably a late Feb or early March build (can't believe I haven't looked?). As others noted, I would not worry about it if I were expecting a new delivery. It's something they are close to fixing, and it's not something that makes the car undriveable.

Congrats on your expected!


----------



## Andy (Jul 16, 2003)

I'll experience a rough idle about once every two weeks or so, but it hardly ever stalls. By rough idle, I mean, the idle will drop from 600 RPM down to 200 RPM and then rapidly back up to 600 RPM and that's it. It's not really a big deal, but it would be nice if there was a fix for it.

I did not vote since my car hardly (if ever) stalls, however does appear to have the rough idle problem.


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

Andy said:


> I'll experience a rough idle about once every two weeks or so, but it hardly ever stalls. By rough idle, I mean, the idle will drop from 600 RPM down to 200 RPM and then rapidly back up to 600 RPM and that's it. It's not really a big deal, but it would be nice if there was a fix for it.


 I've had that rought idle a few times too. Usually when the car has sat for an extended period and it has been very very cold and damp. The times that I have had the car stall have never been accompanied by a rough idle... the idle has been so smooth and quiet that the only indication I have that it stalled are the dash warning lights (when I can see them), no response to the gas, or no power assist in the brakes or steering.


----------



## Epi330 (Feb 28, 2004)

Some clarification: My car did stalled, total 3 times for 7 month / 10K miles, and some times the idle fluctuates slightly... but I can't call it "rough" - it's just a small fluctuations. Overall, I don't see big problem with that - all stalls were when I was standing on 1st gear with clutch in (so it even might be my own mistake like dropping the pedal, although it's very unlikely - I never had this happened with my previous cars), so engine restart worked without problems.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

dmilam said:


> There is also a known issue about the car stalling when turning at low speeds. When I mentioned it to my SA after it happened the first two times, he asked me if I was turning left at the time. I was turning right for both those occurences.
> It actually happened to me today at lunch. That's the 3rd time it has happened since I got the car over a year ago. This time I was turning left.
> I can't wait for the new software that is supposed to come out this summer.
> 
> ...


That's exactly what my car does! 3 times when turning, once in a straight line, always while the clutch was engaged, in mid-shift, coasting, etc. Hmmmm... New software eh? I'll be interested to hear about it when you receive the update...


----------



## missing23 (Feb 1, 2002)

dmilam said:


> There is also a known issue about the car stalling when turning at low speeds. When I mentioned it to my SA after it happened the first two times, he asked me if I was turning left at the time. I was turning right for both those occurences.
> It actually happened to me today at lunch. That's the 3rd time it has happened since I got the car over a year ago. This time I was turning left.
> 
> Dave


The two times my ZHP actually stalled (I have rough idle frequently) I was turning left at really low speeds (drive thru)...so this is a known issue huh?

I like my car but known issues involving stalling that have not been resolved are ridiculous for the caliber of cars we have.


----------



## hockeynut (Apr 14, 2002)

'04 330CiC here - about a half-dozen stalls, mostly in warm weather. Caught a few others as the RPMs were dropping. Patiently awaiting new SW plus new coils...


----------



## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

bump


----------



## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

kurichan,

why not compose all of the ZHP problem posts, print them, and email/fax them to BMW NA and the NHTSA?


----------



## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

RChoudry said:


> kurichan,
> 
> why not compose all of the ZHP problem posts, print them, and email/fax them to BMW NA and the NHTSA?


I'm in no position to complain as I don't even take delivery until 07/04. I'm just trying to understand the extent of the problem before my car arrives.

Anyone out there mad enough to run with RChoudry's suggestion?


----------



## FenPhen (Jan 13, 2004)

My 330i ZHP (early March '04 build) is still in break-in. I've been watching the tach like a hawk when I'm idling. So far, everything seems to be okay (short drive, long drive, just moving it around at low speed in the driveway).

The only thing I've noticed is sometimes the idle flutters, kinda between 600 and 650 rpm, but I can't recall the exact circumstances when this happens, though I think it's after the car's warmed up. This is normal...? :eeps:


----------



## gaklager (May 12, 2004)

*330i stalling*

My 01 330i started stalling today when using the AC. It happened when slowing down to stop, clutch pedal depressed. The idle dropped significantly and the engine stalled a half dozen times. If I turn the AC off, the problem goes away. I stopped and filled the car up with gas and the stalling stopped. Not sure that's related. Any recommendations?


----------



## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

One last BUMP before I tabulate and analyze. Please vote on this ASAP if you haven't yet!

Thanks!


----------



## neile (Apr 22, 2004)

My 2001 325i has the funky rough idle. My carpool buddy commented on it today when we were at a stop. It sounded like the car was going to die, but it sucked it self up and was fine. It's happened at least twice to me in the one week I've owned the car. I've got about 34,000 miles.

Neil


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

Stalled again this afternoon, this time on the freeway in rush hour traffic 

I was coming up on the interchange from the 10 to the 405 and traffic was stopped dead. So, I coasted in 2nd for a little while and when I was going slow enough and getting close enough to the stopped cars, I put the clutch all the way in, downshifted to first, and started braking. Just before I came to a complete stop, the engine died. Good thing traffic was not moving as I would not have been able to just drop the clutch and keep going. The car was absolutely NOT in gear when this happened so it wasn't that I was dragging the clutch at very low RPM or anything like that. And I did not experience any rough idle before the stall. And, I was not using the AC.

I will be making an appointment ASAP and see what the service folks can find out by reading the diagnostic codes back from the engine computer.


----------



## kurichan (May 1, 2004)

operknockity said:


> Stalled again this afternoon, this time on the freeway in rush hour traffic
> 
> I was coming up on the interchange from the 10 to the 405 and traffic was stopped dead. So, I coasted in 2nd for a little while and when I was going slow enough and getting close enough to the stopped cars, I put the clutch all the way in, downshifted to first, and started braking. Just before I came to a complete stop, the engine died. Good thing traffic was not moving as I would not have been able to just drop the clutch and keep going. The car was absolutely NOT in gear when this happened so it wasn't that I was dragging the clutch at very low RPM or anything like that. And I did not experience any rough idle before the stall. And, I was not using the AC.
> 
> I will be making an appointment ASAP and see what the service folks can find out by reading the diagnostic codes back from the engine computer.


And when the engine died, you lost brake and steering assist...

Does that sound perilously dangerous to anyone else?

I think you guys need to start reporting this problem to the NHTSA: Defect Report

Unless my salesperson comes back with (1) admission of the problem and (2) something official from BMW stating they will fix the problem by date x, I am cancelling my order.


----------



## London Talking (Mar 1, 2003)

I have experienced a few stalls myself, as well as the ‘rough idle.’ I was positive it was not pilot error; it usually does it when I am slowing down to a halt in heavy traffic. In 14 months I have experienced this about a dozen times.

Thanks for the thread; I will definitely raise this issue with BMW when I take the car in for its first service.


----------



## pt00323i (Jun 5, 2002)

my 00323 stalled, but it was a bad crankshaft sensor, I've heard it is a pretty common failure. I have 54K on it.

other than that drives like new.


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

operknockity said:


> Stalled again this afternoon, this time on the freeway in rush hour traffic
> ........
> I will be making an appointment ASAP and see what the service folks can find out by reading the diagnostic codes back from the engine computer.


 Just got off the phone with my SA. I described the problem to him and he said "low RPM stall problem... known issue... DME software update will fix it", so I've got an appointment on Wednesday. I'll see if I can get any more details (like TSB numbers, etc.) from him then.

I also asked about the bad crankshaft sensor issue, and he said that would also cause the stalling, but the check engine light would stay on after the car was restarted, and that has not been the case for me.


----------



## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

FenPhen said:


> My 330i ZHP (early March '04 build) is still in break-in. I've been watching the tach like a hawk when I'm idling. So far, everything seems to be okay (short drive, long drive, just moving it around at low speed in the driveway).
> 
> The only thing I've noticed is sometimes the idle flutters, kinda between 600 and 650 rpm, but I can't recall the exact circumstances when this happens, though I think it's after the car's warmed up. This is normal...? :eeps:


Pretty much the same experience as me. I have 1300 miles and idle is pretty much rock solid other than small fluctuations occasionally. Never anything close to a stall yet.


----------



## GeoMystic (Aug 21, 2002)

My 330i had the stall/idle issue. It was resloved after they replaced 6 ignition coils and uopdated the software. The software was the actual fix. Car has been rock solid for almost 2 months now.


----------



## fredo (Mar 20, 2002)

i have a '04 330Ci zhp that i just picked up 2 weeks ago. my car has the rough idle sometimes when im stopped at a light or something. i've had the car stall on me 3 times so far already.


----------



## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

fredo said:


> i have a '04 330Ci zhp that i just picked up 2 weeks ago. my car has the rough idle sometimes when im stopped at a light or something. i've had the car stall on me 3 times so far already.


That's strange. Are you filling up with premium fuel? I have always filled up with 91 or 92 octane.


----------



## fredo (Mar 20, 2002)

NASA43 said:


> That's strange. Are you filling up with premium fuel? I have always filled up with 91 or 92 octane.


of course, i always use Chevron 93 octane fuel. although when the car stalled on me the three times, i dont recall if ive filled up already or if it had whatever fuel was in the car when i picked it up. are you saying my problem could be cause of the fuel? im sure the dealer would have put premium fuel in it?


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

GeoMystic said:


> My 330i had the stall/idle issue. It was resloved after they replaced 6 ignition coils and uopdated the software. The software was the actual fix. Car has been rock solid for almost 2 months now.


 :thumbup: I go in for the s/w fix tomorrow!


----------



## dmilam (Apr 29, 2004)

If you get a TSB # with the software update, could you post it here?

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## NASA43 (Jul 19, 2003)

fredo said:


> of course, i always use Chevron 93 octane fuel. although when the car stalled on me the three times, i dont recall if ive filled up already or if it had whatever fuel was in the car when i picked it up. are you saying my problem could be cause of the fuel? im sure the dealer would have put premium fuel in it?


I don't know. It just seems strange that your car is stalling within 2 weeks of taking ownership. I guess I could understand something like this happening over a period of time (e.g., some people drive their car much harder than others) but if it is a software problem (everyone seems to be anticipating a software fix) why does it only affect some cars? You and I both have the 3.0 liter with the ZHP programming. Yours is stalling in the first 2 weeks and mine has been fine, so far, for 2 months. I can understand some components failing randomly but if it is software programming, why aren't we all having the same problem? Of course, as I say this, I'll probably stall on the way home today!


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

NASA43 said:


> Yours is stalling in the first 2 weeks and mine has been fine, so far, for 2 months. I can understand some components failing randomly but if it is software programming, why aren't we all having the same problem?


BMW claims that the gas you use has something to do with it... they suggested I run a couple of tanks of 89 Octane fuel, "til the 'summer gas' ( :dunno: ) is in".... Have an appointment next week for unrelated (window regulators) and will inquire as to the status of the software fix...


----------



## Nefilim (May 17, 2004)

You should add an option for rough idle. Mine hasn't stalled yet but does idle rough when cold and sometimes when warm.


----------



## NickD (Jul 16, 2003)

You don't have listed there the 328, pretty much the same engine as the 330. Anyway, I have a 99 328i 5speed. My idle is very rough when cold. The RPMs will drop slowly from around 600 down to 100, almost stall then boost back up. This will happen all the time. Occasionally when doing this it will stall. I've had it stall maybe 5 times since i bought the car last August.


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

rumratt said:


> Ditto. The software fix is official?


 What the SA told me is that they'll tweak the engine s/w to make the mixture a tad richer and up the idle RPM by 50 and that will normally cure the problem. I forgot to ask if there was a TSB # for that procedure. I'll try to remember to ask when I pick up the car this afternoon.


----------



## RChoudry (Jan 13, 2002)

I called around and heard that the 2.5 liter s/w update was available, but most dealers are still waiting for the 3.0 liter version update.


----------



## operknockity (Apr 19, 2002)

I'm waiting for my courtesy ride back to the dealer to pick up my car, but this is what the SA told me over the phone...



> SIB 120703 - On customer complaint, reprogram DME with (...long stream of jargon that he was saying way to fast for me to write it down...)<long string="" of="" jargon="" that="" he="" utter="" way="" fast="" for="" me="" to="" write="" down="">.


 But at least I got the SIB number.</long>


----------



## gscott2 (Mar 5, 2004)

NickD said:


> You don't have listed there the 328, pretty much the same engine as the 330. Anyway, I have a 99 328i 5speed. My idle is very rough when cold. The RPMs will drop slowly from around 600 down to 100, almost stall then boost back up. This will happen all the time. Occasionally when doing this it will stall. I've had it stall maybe 5 times since i bought the car last August.


I saw the idle issue discussed on the roadfly board related to starts in cold weather. Here is the link from a search on that topic. The issue looks to be related to the VANOS.
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forum...ld&dosearch=Search!&ps=20&m=natural&o=default

Greg.

'01 325i 5 sp


----------



## ff (Dec 19, 2001)

Salvator said:


> BMW claims that the gas you use has something to do with it...


I believe that it does, as does the atmospheric conditions. If I use bad gas and/or it's very warm and humid out, my car will stall fairly regularily. During the winter months, I have zero problems.


----------



## cssmgt (May 28, 2004)

*Me too on my 325cic*



gaklager said:


> My 01 330i started stalling today when using the AC. It happened when slowing down to stop, clutch pedal depressed. The idle dropped significantly and the engine stalled a half dozen times. If I turn the AC off, the problem goes away. I stopped and filled the car up with gas and the stalling stopped. Not sure that's related. Any recommendations?


I have had the same issue, but the car did not stall. It almost did. This was more noticeable when the AC was ON and the tank was less than half full. I have an appointment this week.

I am building a file from this board as supporting evidence.


----------



## cssmgt (May 28, 2004)

*Software Update Fixed the problem*

 Software Update fixed the problem. Car runs great.


----------



## Salvator (Oct 14, 2003)

cssmgt said:


> Software Update fixed the problem. Car runs great.


Hmmm... I tried to get SIB 120703 applied to my 325Ci and was told that it did not apply, based on my VIN. What year is your 325CiC? :dunno:


----------

