# Car insurance rates for "pleasure vehicle". I don't get it.



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

I've been toying with the idea of getting a track/autox car. Possibly an E30. I called my insurance company and asked them:

QUESTIOIN: "How much would my rates change if I bought a 1991 318is as a 3rd car. I want liability insurance only on the car. It would be a pleasure vehicle, with limited miles."

ANSWER: The annual premium went up by almost exactly 50%. There are only 2 people in our household, yet adding a cheap old 3rd car costs as much to insure as the FULLY insured daily drivers (03 330i and 04 Honda Accord). 

I don't get it. If the 318 has liability only, that means any time I drive it, I am *reducing* their liability because I'm not putting the 330i at risk. I tried labeling the 318is as my daily commuter, and it didn't help. I tried explaining to the guy that this seemed weird, but it was like talking to a bowl of jello.

Have other folks who have additional cars experience this same thing? I have Costco insurance  (amex). Maybe I'll try some other companies just for kicks.

I guess I shouldn't expect the world to make sense.


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

Whenever you tell them it's a "pleasure" vehicle, you have to be very careful to mention that it DOESN'T have bench seats.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

:dunno: 

It cost me less than $275/year to add my e30 as my daily driver (liability only).

Alex


----------



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

Nick325xiT 5spd said:


> Whenever you tell them it's a "pleasure" vehicle, you have to be very careful to mention that it DOESN'T have bench seats.


Maybe "liability" covers the costs of pregnancy and child birth? :rofl:


----------



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> :dunno:
> It cost me less than $275/year to add my e30 as my daily driver (liability only).


And you have kids!

Mine was almost 3 times that. I need to shop around.


----------



## Nick325xiT 5spd (Dec 24, 2001)

rumratt said:


> Maybe "liability" covers the costs of pregnancy and child birth? :rofl:


 Don't mention the head lights, either.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

rumratt said:


> And you have kids!
> 
> Mine was 2.5 times that. I need to shop around.


Well, as a point of reference, when I moved from South Jersey to Baltimore (about 15 years ago) my auto insurance was cut almost in half. You certainly pay a premium for living in the Lawsuit Lottery State.

Alex


----------



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Well, as a point of reference, when I moved from South Jersey to Baltimore (about 15 years ago) my auto insurance was cut almost in half. You certainly pay a premium for living in the Lawsuit Lottery State.


True.. But regardless of how high the rates are, when you have N people living in your house, and you have N+1 cars, the liability alone on car N+1 should not be equal to liability+comprehensive+collision on cars 1-N.

It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.


----------



## BahnBaum (Feb 25, 2004)

rumratt said:


> True.. But regardless of how high the rates are, when you have N people living in your house, and you have N+1 cars, the liability alone on car N+1 should not be equal to liability+comprehensive+collision on cars 1-N.
> 
> It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.


Good luck applying any rationality or logic to the insurance industry. Riddle me this, Batman:

Oldest son turns 16 and buys first car at the same time. I insure the car and add him to the policy. Insurance goes up massively.

Less than a year later, son has a meeting with an embankment and totals his $2500 Jetta. No other damage or any one else involved, so I have the car towed to a salvage yard and call to cancel the liability coverage on the vehicle.

When I remove the car from the policy, my rates GO UP. Yup, $350/year. Because my son had to be assigned to a car in the household, and all the other vehicles were of greater value than his. When I spoke to the agent, they admitted that I'd be better off not having removed the car (that I no longer owned) or calling them with a VIN on a trashed car.

Alex


----------



## rumratt (Feb 22, 2003)

BahnBaum said:


> Less than a year later, son has a meeting with an embankment and totals his $2500 Jetta. No other damage or any one else involved, so I have the car towed to a salvage yard and call to cancel the liability coverage on the vehicle.
> 
> When I remove the car from the policy, my rates GO UP. Yup, $350/year. Because my son had to be assigned to a car in the household, and all the other vehicles were of greater value than his. When I spoke to the agent, they admitted that I'd be better off not having removed the car (that I no longer owned) or calling them with a VIN on a trashed car.


The part about reporting a trashed car is ridiculous, but as silly as it seems, I can understand the rational behind the rate hike. Without his beater, he will likely be spending more time behind the wheel of the more expensive cars.

Think of me as the kid. I was hoping adding a beater would lower my rates as well.


----------



## cwsqbm (Aug 4, 2004)

rumratt said:


> Have other folks who have additional cars experience this same thing? I have Costco insurance  (amex). Maybe I'll try some other companies just for kicks.
> 
> I guess I shouldn't expect the world to make sense.


That doesn't make sense. My '68 Camaro, insured for appraised value, cost me less than 1/2 what I paid to insure my pickup when I had only two cars. That was with Allstate. Not having as good a luck with State Farm and at this rate will be back to Allstate.


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

My favorite, added the LTW, rates went up a BUNCH. OK, why? Well it is a class 25 vehicle based on p[erformance just like the E46 M3. So I asked about the Roadster. It is only a Class 17 vehicle and costs less to insure. :dunno: Let's see S50 powered Coupe, versus S52 powered roadster.

You would think that adding a 4th car, that is pleasure only, less than 5K miles per year, would not cost that much.

When I was young, my Dad saved money by placing me as an occasional driver of all cars, not a primary driver of any one. But YMMV, as each insurance company, each year is different.


----------



## Rich_Jenkins (Jul 12, 2003)

http://www.hagerty.com :dunno:

We have the Mini (1967 model) insured with them for agreed value (18K IIRC) -- seems like a good company so far...?


----------



## AF (Dec 21, 2001)

Liability with the same limits and same usage (pleasure, commute to work etc.) will have the same rate no matter what the vehicle is. The only time your rate will be lower is if the car has a credit such as daytime running lights and then that particular vehicle will be a little less to insure because of the DRL credit.

The only savings you will have is the Comprehensive and collision and this is based on a few different factors ...

Anyway, you know what they say matt ... *you want to play, you gotta pay !!*


----------



## The Roadstergal (Sep 7, 2002)

Pinecone said:


> My favorite, added the LTW, rates went up a BUNCH. OK, why? Well it is a class 25 vehicle based on p[erformance just like the E46 M3.


If you're looking at comp as well, the LTW will hike rates a bunch over a standard E36 M3 - at least, for a friend they did. She had it insured as an E36 M3, then thought better of it - if it's totalled, she wants LTW value, and if it's damaged, she wants LTW parts.

I'm a little puzzled at Matt's experience, though. I pay very low insurance on the Miata, liability only, because it's a "pleasure" (low use, no commute) vehicle. It was a lot higher when I drove it to work.


----------



## alee (Dec 19, 2001)

rumratt said:


> I've been toying with the idea of getting a track/autox car. Possibly an E30.


What if you lowered the miles driven? State Farm gave me a huge break when I dropped my annual miles driven to 7500 or less.


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

shop around, maybe theyare giving you the shaft :dunno:


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

The Roadstergal said:


> If you're looking at comp as well, the LTW will hike rates a bunch over a standard E36 M3 - at least, for a friend they did. She had it insured as an E36 M3, then thought better of it - if it's totalled, she wants LTW value, and if it's damaged, she wants LTW parts.
> 
> I'm a little puzzled at Matt's experience, though. I pay very low insurance on the Miata, liability only, because it's a "pleasure" (low use, no commute) vehicle. It was a lot higher when I drove it to work.


With my insurance company their rating of the car is more important.

WRT liability, the cost should be based on the potential for loss, and a 4th car in a family of 2 has much less exposure than the first car.


----------



## KrisL (Dec 22, 2001)

Tell them the E30 will be your primary vehicle.


----------



## TeamM3 (Dec 24, 2002)

KrisL said:


> Tell them the E30 will be your primary vehicle.


you can't carry higher coverage on the secondary vehicle


----------



## Pinecone (Apr 3, 2002)

Yeah, they know that one, the newest/most expensive car is automatically your primary car.


----------



## xspeedy (Apr 10, 2003)

I had the same beef for a third vehicle in a two person household. Full liability is charged on the extra vehicle even though the total miles driven (risK) doesn't change.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78395


----------

