# Risky to not get snow tires?



## sushikiller (Dec 17, 2012)

Hi,
I would like to know if it is risky not to get snow tires while indirectly driving pass Austria?

Here's a brief itinerary of my route:

1) Munich
2) Switzerland (Basel, Berne, Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen, Lucerne)
4) Drops car back at Munich

I know from Munich to Switzerland, there's a very small section that you have to pass through Austria (the route that goes to Zurich). Is it really risky to not get snow tires because it is a law in Austria.

Also, would it be necessary to get snow tires because I am going through the alps in Switzerland and there may be snow there?

The 335i Sedan I will be getting does not have summer tires or M+S mark on it. I think it's all season tires (it was standard when I ordered the car).

Thanks.


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## Popoemt (Aug 9, 2012)

Hi sushikiller, if you search this forum, this is a pretty well documented subject, and based off the many other hits this subject has taken, it always comes down to a personal decision. . . If you get into an accident without them, then it would have been a good purchase, I would always argue why risk the chance of an accident or a super expensive euro citation. There are those who would take the risk verse the cost of the tires, I don't believe I am that type of person, as peace of mind comes first.

P.S.- The snow tire requirement is the law in Germany as well...

P.S.S- "Snow tires" are different from "all-season" tires...

P.S.S.S.S.S (how many S' do I add here...)- I would contact John Lance (runs the ED winter tire rental service) and at least get an opinion from him too


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

How many times, and how many ways do you wish to ask the same question? You have no idea what tires are on the car. Do the required research!!!


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## sushikiller (Dec 17, 2012)

M FUNF said:


> How many times, and how many ways do you wish to ask the same question? You have no idea what tires are on the car. Do the required researh!!!


I would like to ask it in how many ways I want to. If you don't have anything to contribute, please refrain from even posting your response. Also, i know for sure it is NOT snow tires and NOT summer tires, that's why I asked this question.


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## Kanuck (Feb 18, 2003)

I think Popoemt answered you. If your concern is only the risk of being caught in Austria without the proper tires, then the risk is reasonably low. I suppose you will skip the Vignette as well?

If however, your concern is the risk of being in an accident while driving in seriously winter conditions and having to explain to the authorities in any of these countries why you don't have the proper equipment, then it is an entirely different matter.


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## sushikiller (Dec 17, 2012)

Kanuck said:


> I think Popoemt answered you. If your concern is only the risk of being caught in Austria without the proper tires, then the risk is reasonably low. I suppose you will skip the Vignette as well?
> 
> If however, your concern is the risk of being in an accident while driving in seriously winter conditions and having to explain to the authorities in any of these countries why you don't have the proper equipment, then it is an entirely different matter.


I'm not worry about accidents, more about getting caught in Austria because of that small section that I need to pass through going from Munich Switzerland. But yes, I will take Popoemt's advice of contacting that guy at the snow tire rental about the weather condition.

Also, is the vignette about that toll thing? I read it somewhere in one of the thread but could not recall and I cannot locate the thread. And the vignette is only required in Switzerland and not Germany, right?


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

Speaking as someone who lives in snow country.
You'll be driving a car that is capable of 0 to 60 in ~ 5 seconds, which means on snow or worse yet black ice 0 to ditch, guard rail or another car in less than 2 seconds.
I drive a 135 and even with Blizzak's on I can break traction in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. On black ice 6th. Of coarse corners are alot of fun :angel: (if you,re into drifting  :bigpimp: ) 

Don't let "all season" fool you, all that means is they're mediocre year round.


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## AggieKnight (Dec 26, 2008)

sushikiller said:


> I would like to ask it in how many ways I want to. If you don't have anything to contribute, please refrain from even posting your response. Also, i know for sure it is NOT snow tires and NOT summer tires, that's why I asked this question.


He has a good point though...

Since you've asked this question a couple times, I'll be blunt. In my opinion, it's not smart to drive a high performance car through through the Alpine nations during the winter without appropriate gear. That has nothing to do with laws and everything to do with having the appropriate equipment for the task. I've been in snowstorms in Austria in May and Switzerland in April (just my experience).

But, it's your car. Getting a ticket for inappropriate tires is nothing compared to sliding off a cliff or being solely at fault for a five car accident with your insurance invalidated.


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## sushikiller (Dec 17, 2012)

AggieKnight said:


> He has a good point though...
> 
> Since you've asked this question a couple times, I'll be blunt. In my opinion, it's not smart to drive a high performance car through through the Alpine nations during the winter without appropriate gear. That has nothing to do with laws and everything to do with having the appropriate equipment for the task. I've been in snowstorms in Austria in May and Switzerland in April (just my experience).
> 
> But, it's your car. Getting a ticket for inappropriate tires is nothing compared to sliding off a cliff or being solely at fault for a five car accident with your insurance invalidated.


I think i found my answer from your post..."snowstorms in Switzerland in April" since I will be there for a few days at the end of March, especially going through the alps.


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## VMcV3y (Jul 6, 2011)

Yes, it is risky.

Your risk is in paying a fine if you get stopped and are not in a collision.

Your risk is in paying a fine and possible increase of damage payments if you are in a collision.

Your risk is in buying a $45,000 vehicle, not paying $400 more for proper equipment, and getting into a wreck, or a couple of seriously frightening close calls.

There is tons and tons of information on this forum about people's opinions of the laws and the risks involved. 

You'll find postings by people that claim to have not rented proper tires, and they had no problems. 
You'll find people that have not rented tires and HAVE had problems.
You'll read about people that did rent tires, then switched them out on the last thirty minutes to drive back and were sliding all over the road.
But...what you almost never find is an article by someone that rented winter tires and felt it was a mistake.

I've got a lengthy motorcycle riding background. There's a saying: If you have a $50 head, then buy a $50 helmet.

How much is that car you're planning to buy and drive?

- V

.


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## dkreidel (Aug 24, 2005)

I returned from Germany 2 weeks ago, and although I wasn't there for an ED, I was renting a Sixt car and spent 10 days driving in the snow and ice. I rented an Audi A3 instead of a 1 series to get FWD and the car was equipped with new Conti M+S tires. Most of the time the M+S were adequate, but there were 2 days that even with FWD and M+S rubber it wasn't possible to drive safely - so I parked it. I live in NW Montana 6 months out of the year and have learned that some days are best spent indoors unless we are in our Dodge 4WD Ram equipped with "Mountain and Snowflake" tires.

I've done a lot of dumb things in the past, including a late November M5 ED through France and UK in the snow on summer rubber - but I wouldn't do it again. Last year's 750 ED was with real winter/snow tires rented from John Lance, and it was greatly satisfying knowing I wasn't going to go skittering off the road or into someone else.


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## Bikie (May 2, 2004)

You can avoid Austria by this route. Munich-Meersburg-Ferry to Konstanz. Konstanz-Zürich. Snow is possible but not likely for most of the route. Especially heavy snow, but if I was going into or over the Alps I would want at least all season tires.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

sushikiller said:


> I would like to ask it in how many ways I want to. If you don't have anything to contribute, please refrain from even posting your response. Also, i know for sure it is NOT snow tires and NOT summer tires, that's why I asked this question.


My point was you had already asked this same question in the ED-Snow Tires Thread you started. You already had the answer, if you are so weak of mind as to not get the point the first time maybe you should not venture into a part of the world you have not reaearched well before you go. Snow in winter and in the mountains, may be a hard concept for someone from San Fran to grasp but if you are not familiar with it it can actually kill you, and that would make you Sushikilled.:yikes: There are no such things as "winter" or "summer" tires there are just tires that are more approprioate for the seasons. On my personal cars I use Blizzaks in the Winter and Performance tires in warmer weather, the deciding point is temps consistently above or below 45 degrees. Ask you dealer exactly what tires are on the car you ordered, and you will start the discussion with some basic knowledge. Based on your imput in both threads I am not sure you even know if they are round and what they are made of. Ignorance begets its own rewards.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## razzy530 (Nov 8, 2005)

M FUNF said:


> My point was you had already asked this same question in the ED-Snow Tires Thread you started. You already had the answer, if you are so weak of mind as to not get the point the first time maybe you should not venture into a part of the world you have not reaearched well before you go. Snow in winter and in the mountains, may be a hard concept for someone from San Fran to grasp but if you are not familiar with it it can actually kill you, and that would make you Sushikilled.:yikes: There are no such things as "winter" or "summer" tires there are just tires that are more approprioate for the seasons. On my personal cars I use Blizzaks in the Winter and Performance tires in warmer weather, the deciding point is temps consistently above or below 45 degrees. Ask you dealer exactly what tires are on the car you ordered, and you will start the discussion with some basic knowledge. Based on your imput in both threads I am not sure you even know if they are round and what they are maade of. Ignorance begets its own rewards.:rofl::rofl::rofl:


Well said!! I like it:thumbup::thumbup:


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## SD ///M4 (Jan 24, 2011)

Popoemt said:


> P.S.- The snow tire requirement is the law in Germany as well...
> 
> P.S.S- "Snow tires" are different from "all-season" tires...
> 
> P.S.S.S.S.S (*how many S' do I add here*...)- I would contact John Lance (runs the ED winter tire rental service) and at least get an opinion from him too


To take this thread off on a tangent for a moment, "P.S." stands for Post Script, or a "script" that is added after the main "script" or body of the letter, an afterthought. So the script that comes after the first post script is a post post script, abbreviated as P.P.S. Remember, this all comes from when letters were hand-written or type-written and you couldn't just go back and add a paragraph in the middle after you already signed the letter, so you added it after your signature as a post script.

So the the answer to your question is, you don't add additional S's, you add additional P's.

And now back to bashing the OP for repeatedly asking the same question in different ways and apparently not wanting to believe that he has to spring for some extra money to put the correct tires on his brand-new car for the purpose of _*driving his brand-new car through the Swiss Alps in the winter*_.


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## M FUNF (Apr 2, 2008)

SD Z4MR said:


> To take this thread off on a tangent for a moment, "P.S." stands for Post Script, or a "script" that is added after the main "script" or body of the letter, an afterthought. So the script that comes after the first post script is a post post script, abbreviated as P.P.S. Remember, this all comes from when letters were hand-written or type-written and you couldn't just go back and add a paragraph in the middle after you already signed the letter, so you added it after your signature as a post script.
> 
> So the the answer to your question is, you don't add additional S's, you add additional P's.
> 
> I fear, that the OP has been given the impression that we have been PPP ing on him:rofl:


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## hamlyn (Aug 26, 2007)

M FUNF said:


> and that would make you Sushikilled.:yikes:


Funny!


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## sno_duc (Sep 3, 2008)

SD Z4MR said:


> And now back to bashing the OP for repeatedly asking the same question in different ways and apparently not wanting to believe that he has to spring for some extra money to put the correct tires on his brand-new car for the purpose of _*driving his brand-new car through the Swiss Alps in the winter*_.


+1
Also the OP does not reside in snow country, so we have someone with limited recent snow driving experience driving a high-performance car thru the Alps in the winter.
What could possible go wrong? :dunno:


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## CarSwami (Oct 2, 2005)

I have never driven my 335i in snow in the Alps, but I can attest to the fact that it does not handle well in the snow here in Maryland. I tired it once, a few years ago and decided to return it to the garage even before I left my driveway. I would not even consider driving a rear-wheel car without the correct tires through the passes in the Alps during winter. "nuf said!


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## john lance (Oct 15, 2005)

sushikiller said:


> I'm not worry about accidents, more about getting caught in Austria because of that small section that I need to pass through going from Munich Switzerland. But yes, I will take Popoemt's advice of contacting that guy at the snow tire rental about the weather condition.


Hi, I'm "that guy at the snow tire rental"......and out of all the comments on this thread, the one that made me cringe the most was the first line of the above! To not worry about accidents whilst driving in what could possibly be treacherous conditions, yet to worry about getting caught (which would usually only happen anyway if you were involved in an accident or blocking the road - see below) seems to me that you have your priorities mixed up! If you don't value your own safety, please think about the rest of us driving on the same roads as you! Don't underestimate how different the road surfaces are just with a thin layer of snow and ice. Other than making it dangerous to engage any speed whatsoever, not having proper Winter tires makes it real embarrassing when you are the one holding up a long line of traffic, or left at the side of a hill while everyone cruises past you without difficulty, or stuck horizontal after spinning those wheels, or begging for a push, or hitchhiking to the nearest gas station to buy snow chains or needing a shovel to dig yourself out of a parking space - believe me, I've been there and done all of the above in my younger days and it really makes you feel damn silly!


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